# The Footie Thread



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2020)




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## pauljames87 (Jul 29, 2020)

That ball is just ugly!

Miss the Nike yellow ball from 2003 think it was. 

Interested to see what the var review is

Like the 5 subs staying for a season. Players will still be worked harder than normal so makes sense to keep things fresh 

The window for buisness for premier League to EFL is interesting considering most of our business is going to be from the championship we could nick everyone's players mid season


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## Beezerk (Jul 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 31789

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....020-21-season-start-date-finish-date-new-kits

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Christ, that photo looks like something out of a horror film, Henderson the vampire


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 29, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Christ, that photo looks like something out of a horror film
		
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I think you'll find the whole season was like something from a horror film 😱.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 29, 2020)

Anyone got any thoughts on last seasons error with Hawkeye?


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## Captainron (Jul 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Anyone got any thoughts on last seasons error with Hawkeye?

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This could be something that picks up pace. Sheffield United don’t seem too bothered though and it’s only the relegated clubs that do. 

I hope it comes to nothing though as it would cause all sorts of issues with such a small time frame to the start of the new season


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## pauljames87 (Jul 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Anyone got any thoughts on last seasons error with Hawkeye?

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think the best bouremouth will get is a payout from hawkeye over their mistake.. 

however arent bouremouth due a points deduction next time they go to the championship? due to breaking FFP the season they got promoted?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 29, 2020)

How many more posts will it take to get onto page 2 and get rid of that picture? It is sooooo 2019/20 and this is 2020/21


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How many more posts will it take to get onto page 2 and get rid of that picture? It is sooooo 2019/20 and this is 2020/21 

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If someone (papas ) hadn’t changed the forum “unwritten” rule of not starting the next season’s thread until the fixtures are announced, we wouldn’t be in this predicament. 😂😂


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			If someone (papas ) hadn’t changed the forum “unwritten” rule of not starting the next season’s thread until the fixtures are announced, we wouldn’t be in this predicament. 😂😂
		
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Doesnt matter until 10 games in anyway. 

Right, here's the first sensible post, it will be lonely come this time next year. 

I dont agree with the 5 subs rule, generally as favours the richer clubs/bigger squads which tend to populate the top half of the table, plus Everton.

But.....

With a late start to the season, not sure if a mid-winter break will still be in place, so could be a health/injury risk to the players as the season goes on, so what could be done to lessen that "advantage"?

Off the top of my head, thinking:-

3 of the 7 squad of subs have to be under 20, and if signed from another club have to be of a value less than, say £10 million.

Only 3 of the 5 subs that can be used can be used outwith the above, unless due to a goalkeeper change/injury.


Discuss....... or just agree with me, as its at least sensible.


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## fundy (Jul 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Doesnt matter until 10 games in anyway. 

Right, here's the first sensible post, it will be lonely come this time next year. 

I dont agree with the 5 subs rule, generally as favours the richer clubs/bigger squads which tend to populate the top half of the table, plus Everton.

But.....

With a late start to the season, not sure if a mid-winter break will still be in place, so could be a health/injury risk to the players as the season goes on, so what could be done to lessen that "advantage"?

Off the top of my head, thinking:-

3 of the 7 squad of subs have to be under 20, and if signed from another club have to be of a value less than, say £10 million.

Only 3 of the 5 subs that can be used can be used outwith the above, unless due to a goalkeeper change/injury.


Discuss....... or just agree with me, as its at least sensible. 

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I think the 5 subs is here for more season with the lack of pre season, quite like your rules but no chance the big boys agree to that


OK one part to add for me, should be specific sub windows in the match and cant use subs at any other time other than due to injury. Subs at HT 60 mins 80 mins or not at all to stop club using substitutions to time waste/break up the game


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			I think the 5 subs is here for more season with the lack of pre season, quite like your rules but no chance the big boys agree to that


OK one part to add for me, should be specific sub windows in the match and *cant use subs at any other time other than due to injury*. Subs at HT 60 mins 80 mins or not at all to stop club using substitutions to time waste/break up the game
		
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The problem with this is footballers and managers are cheats quite frankly and players would just fake injury in order to enable the substitution to take place. It is sad to be so cynical but we see it every week. Better enforcement of the substituted player leaving at the nearest exit point of the pitch and adding time on to allow for the subs would help with the late substitution time wasting.


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## fundy (Jul 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The problem with this is footballers and managers are cheats quite frankly and players would just fake injury in order to enable the substitution to take place. It is sad to be so cynical but we see it every week. Better enforcement of the substituted player leaving at the nearest exit point of the pitch and adding time on to allow for the subs would help with the late substitution time wasting.
		
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I got a whole list of rules and punishments to introduce for the cheats


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			I think the 5 subs is here for more season with the lack of pre season, quite like your rules but no chance the big boys agree to that


OK one part to add for me, should be specific sub windows in the match and cant use subs at any other time other than due to injury. Subs at HT 60 mins 80 mins or not at all to stop club using substitutions to time waste/break up the game
		
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Yep agree, sensibility breeds sensibility.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Doesnt matter until 10 games in anyway. 

Right, here's the first sensible post, it will be lonely come this time next year. 

I dont agree with the 5 subs rule, generally as favours the richer clubs/bigger squads which tend to populate the top half of the table, plus Everton.

But.....

With a late start to the season, not sure if a mid-winter break will still be in place, so could be a health/injury risk to the players as the season goes on, so what could be done to lessen that "advantage"?

Off the top of my head, thinking:-

3 of the 7 squad of subs have to be under 20, and if signed from another club have to be of a value less than, say £10 million.

Only 3 of the 5 subs that can be used can be used outwith the above, unless due to a goalkeeper change/injury.


Discuss....... or just agree with me, as its at least sensible. 

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Why do you make everything so complicated? 

😁😁


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## Captainron (Jul 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Why do you make everything so complicated?

😁😁
		
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Pedro has a motto.

Why say something in 5 words when you can say it in 5 pages...


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Why do you make everything so complicated?

😁😁
		
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That's how socialism works, doesn't it?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			That's how socialism works, doesn't it? 

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Socialism doesnt work apparently.....


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Socialism doesnt work apparently.....
		
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I believe so, but neither does capitalism with a social conscience, either. But hey, ho.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I believe so, but neither does capitalism with a social conscience, either. But hey, ho.

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Socilaism only works when it benefits Capitalism.
Anyway that's enough of politics before  you know who pipes up.


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## fundy (Jul 29, 2020)

Man City signing Ferran Torres from Valencia for 20m


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## Captainron (Jul 29, 2020)

So who is getting relegated this next season?

Villa
Fulham
West Brom

For me


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## fundy (Jul 29, 2020)

Captainron said:



			So who is getting relegated this next season?

Villa
Fulham
West Brom

For me
		
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lol fulham not even up yet and youre relegating them haha


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## Captainron (Jul 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol fulham not even up yet and youre relegating them haha
		
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Standard practice for Fulham. Up and down more than a Bangkok prozzie


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## pauljames87 (Jul 29, 2020)

Captainron said:



			So who is getting relegated this next season?

Villa
Fulham
West Brom

For me
		
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Palace (free fall since restart)
Whoever comes up via play offs
Brighton


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

I think Leeds and West Brom will be safe.

Palace 
West Ham 
Brentford or Swansea or Fulham.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I think Leeds and West Brom will be safe.

Palace 
West Ham 
Brentford or Swansea or Fulham.
		
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Na you will be paying a charity of My choice £10 😳


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## fundy (Jul 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I think Leeds and West Brom will be safe.

Palace
West Ham
Brentford or Swansea or Fulham.
		
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couldnt find a spot for Everton in there


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			couldnt find a spot for Everton in there 

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As much as I dislike them, I enjoy beating them every year 😂😂

Seeing them suffer in the bottom half of the table is hilarious, having them relegated would be funny but I’d miss them.


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## fundy (Jul 29, 2020)

Sancho for Salah Stu? ok with that?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sancho for Salah Stu? ok with that?
		
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I wouldn't like to lose Salah just yet, weve got at least another 2 seasons left of him but I'd like Sancho too. Tough choice.


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## fundy (Jul 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I wouldn't like to lose Salah just yet, weve got at least another 2 seasons left of him but I'd like Sancho too. Tough choice.
		
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just playing devils advocate with the red tops lead story haha


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			just playing devils advocate with the red tops lead story haha
		
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Haha.


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## Orikoru (Jul 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			Man City signing Ferran Torres from Valencia for 20m
		
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Who the hell is that?


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## Wolf (Jul 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Who the hell is that?
		
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A rather talented winger who at that price could be an absolute steal.


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## Orikoru (Jul 29, 2020)

Wolf said:



			A rather talented winger who at that price could be an absolute steal.
		
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I've not seen him turn up in any of my FM games so he can't be that good.


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## Wolf (Jul 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I've not seen him turn up in any of my FM games so he can't be that good. 

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We all know FM is flawed though because they have Ozil & Lingard as relatively decent players🤣


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## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2020)

Ferran Torres is really good on FM, you've not been looking in the right place @Orikoru


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## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2020)

Well the new Spurs home shirt is absolutely horrible. Europa football, second rate kit, I suppose it makes sense.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-new-kit-2020-21-home-away-pictures-a4512091.html 
The away kit is alright though, don't mind that.


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## Wolf (Jul 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well the new Spurs home shirt is absolutely horrible. Europa football, second rate kit, I suppose it makes sense.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-new-kit-2020-21-home-away-pictures-a4512091.html
The away kit is alright though, don't mind that.
		
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Thats terrible 🤣
The 2nd kit looks like a 1980s goalkeeper shirt that's been recycled


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well the new Spurs home shirt is absolutely horrible. Europa football, second rate kit, I suppose it makes sense.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-new-kit-2020-21-home-away-pictures-a4512091.html
The away kit is alright though, don't mind that.
		
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How do you re-invent a plain white shirt? It is hard to do, they need to tweak it somehow each time. We have the same with a royal blue shirt. We want it to be plain, no frills but that doesn't suit the mfrs.

I saw an old 70's game, Big Match Special, during lockdown, Everton v Spurs. No sponsors names, no messing about. We had a plain royal blue shirt, white shorts, you had dark blue shorts, plain white shirt. It made me feel warm inside


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## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How do you re-invent a plain white shirt? It is hard to do, they need to tweak it somehow each time. We have the same with a royal blue shirt. We want it to be plain, no frills but that doesn't suit the mfrs.

I saw an old 70's game, Big Match Special, during lockdown, Everton v Spurs. No sponsors names, no messing about. We had a plain royal blue shirt, white shorts, you had dark blue shorts, plain white shirt. It made me feel warm inside 

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We've had plenty of nice shirts but this one is awful. I hate when they put yellow on there, there's no need. I hate the bit down the side that doesn't line up properly, the weird shoulder straps, and wtf is going on with the back of the collar as well? It's just terrible all round.


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## Bazzatron (Jul 30, 2020)

Not a fan of the 5 subs, imagine you're holding onto City/Liverpool, got to the last 10mins and they bring on 5 fresh superstars.


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## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Not a fan of the 5 subs, imagine you're holding onto City/Liverpool, got to the last 10mins and they bring on 5 fresh superstars.
		
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Yeah I think it's ridiculous that they've kept that rule going. I can't see the logic given that they'll have had pre-season training over the next 5 weeks, plus we'll be getting out of summer into Autumn/Winter shortly. Stupid decision that just benefits clubs with massive squads.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah I think it's ridiculous that they've kept that rule going. I can't see the logic given that they'll have had pre-season training over the next 5 weeks, plus we'll be getting out of summer into Autumn/Winter shortly. Stupid decision that just benefits clubs with massive squads.
		
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Disagree here, all the club's competing in Europe won't have time off etc 

The season is starting a month later than planned and finished what 2 months later so rather than a solid break the players won't have much. 

Then with the season starting later and has to finish by the euros they prob need to look at fitness and Injury management 

If it stays the following season I agree stupid


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## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Disagree here, all the club's competing in Europe won't have time off etc

The season is starting a month later than planned and finished what 2 months later so rather than a solid break the players won't have much.

Then with the season starting later and has to finish by the euros they prob need to look at fitness and Injury management

If it stays the following season I agree stupid
		
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In terms of resting them though, it just means two extra players get about 10-15 mins extra break. I don't think it's going to make a huge amount of different in that respect. Teams with European commitments have always had to manage it with rotating line-ups. Where it _does_ make huge difference is teams like City being able to bring on two more fresh world class players do to damage to the opposition.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			In terms of resting them though, it just means two extra players get about 10-15 mins extra break. I don't think it's going to make a huge amount of different in that respect. Teams with European commitments have always had to manage it with rotating line-ups. Where it _does_ make huge difference is teams like City being able to bring on two more fresh world class players do to damage to the opposition.
		
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Got to manage it correctly tho, I believe the rule still is in 3 seperate blocks 

So if they have used all 3 blocks they can't bring 2 super stars on


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## Beezerk (Jul 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well the new Spurs home shirt is absolutely horrible. Europa football, second rate kit, I suppose it makes sense.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-new-kit-2020-21-home-away-pictures-a4512091.html
The away kit is alright though, don't mind that.
		
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You think that's bad, check out the new Sheff We'd away shirt 😲🙈


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 30, 2020)

So do these new away shirts now give the players an excuse to hide on the pitch on away games?


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## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			You think that's bad, check out the new Sheff We'd away shirt 😲🙈
View attachment 31808

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Reminds me of when United claimed they were losing because they couldn't see each other in their grey kits, so they changed to blue at half time.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			You think that's bad, check out the new Sheff We'd away shirt 😲🙈
View attachment 31808

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Lordy, that wins the prize


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## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2020)

Bournemouth have accepted a £41m offer from City for Nathan Ake.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Bournemouth have accepted a £41m offer from City for Nathan Ake.
		
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Inevitable he would go. Big money coming in, big wage off the books. It helps to balance the finances, no doubt a few others will leave as well.

Ake will fit the City style of play so it makes sense. He looks a classy player but being at City will show whether he is the real deal or not as any flaws are exposed. Could be a great move for all parties.

Anyone want John Stones? He surely has to move unless he is happy to sit on the bench and take the money. Too young to do that though, 26.


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## Wolf (Jul 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Inevitable he would go. Big money coming in, big wage off the books. It helps to balance the finances, no doubt a few others will leave as well.

Ake will fit the City style of play so it makes sense. He looks a classy player but being at City will show whether he is the real deal or not as any flaws are exposed. Could be a great move for all parties.

*Anyone want John Stones*? He surely has to move unless he is happy to sit on the bench and take the money. Too young to do that though, 26.
		
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Be an upgrade on the dross we have, but we will probably sign some 12 year old French kid instead


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Be an upgrade on the dross we have, but we will probably sign some 12 year old French kid instead
		
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I think Stones is an interesting one and would show where the power lies to some degree, whether Arteta has any say in who we are signing or whether he has to put up with Sanhelhi and Jorabchians provided players


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Be an upgrade on the dross we have, but we will probably sign some 12 year old French kid instead
		
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He is a good player but needs a coach to show him where row Z is. City don't do that, I can't see him getting that at Arsenal either although maybe that would still be a good move. If he improves his decision making in that way then he would be a good buy for a number of teams.


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## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2020)

Is Ake really good enough for City? Bit surprised at that. He has formed part of one of the worst defences in the league. He looks a decent player in isolation, but I thought they'd set their sights a bit higher than that.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2020)

From what I've read this morning City see Ake as a back-up to Laporte. People saying they're unlikely to play them together as they're both left-footed so looks like he's in as a back-up for when Laporte inevitably gets injured. A lot of money for a back-up defender though.


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## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			From what I've read this morning City see Ake as a back-up to Laporte. People saying they're unlikely to play them together as they're both left-footed so looks like he's in as a back-up for when Laporte inevitably gets injured. A lot of money for a back-up defender though.
		
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That's what I was thinking actually, Pep likes his left footers on the left so back-up for Laporte works. But that sort of means they still need to buy another defender for the right side.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That's what I was thinking actually, Pep likes his left footers on the left so back-up for Laporte works. But that sort of means they still need to buy another defender for the right side.
		
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You mean you wouldn't stick with Stones, Otamendi and Garcia?


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## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			You mean you wouldn't stick with Stones, Otamendi and Garcia? 

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Garcia might be decent.. but Stones is shocking and Otamendi is well past it (if he ever had it).


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Inevitable he would go. Big money coming in, big wage off the books. It helps to balance the finances, no doubt a few others will leave as well.

Ake will fit the City style of play so it makes sense*. He looks a classy player* but being at City will show whether he is the real deal or not as any flaws are exposed. Could be a great move for all parties.

Anyone want John Stones? He surely has to move unless he is happy to sit on the bench and take the money. Too young to do that though, 26.
		
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I honestly dont see it. 

Also a 2 left footed CB's  (laporte/ake) combination is strange.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Is Ake really good enough for City? Bit surprised at that. He has formed part of one of the worst defences in the league. He looks a decent player in isolation, but I thought they'd set their sights a bit higher than that.
		
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No not for me. 

Good to see Guardiola splashing the cash instead of trying to coach the expensive under performing CB's he's already got.


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## SteveW86 (Jul 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Is Ake really good enough for City? Bit surprised at that. He has formed part of one of the worst defences in the league. He looks a decent player in isolation, but I thought they'd set their sights a bit higher than that.
		
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I really struggle to see how he is worth £40m. Played in pretty much the worst defence in the Premier League for the last few years and just been relegated. I could understand £20m, but given he is young and English I an only think thats how they have got to £40m. Also if he was that good wouldnt Chelsea be taking up their buy back offer?


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## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I really struggle to see how he is worth £40m. Played in pretty much the worst defence in the Premier League for the last few years and just been relegated. I could understand £20m, but given he is young and English I an only think thats how they have got to £40m. Also if he was that good wouldnt Chelsea be taking up their buy back offer?
		
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He's not English he's Dutch.


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## SteveW86 (Jul 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He's not English he's Dutch.
		
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Ha, dont know why I thought he was English!


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## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Ha, dont know why I thought he was English!
		
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Joined Chelsea aged 15, made his debut aged 17, so has been around the PL a long time so not the wildest shout. He would count as Home Grown for registration purposes anyway.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 30, 2020)

Not the result I wanted last night and 90 minutes of nerves tonight to get to the PL play-off. Think a one off match against Brentford will be tough especially as they've already done us twice this season and looked fluent again last night. A seat at the top table is tantalisingly close now


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## hairball_89 (Jul 31, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not the result I wanted last night and 90 minutes of nerves tonight to get to the PL play-off. Think a one off match against Brentford will be tough especially as they've already done us twice this season and looked fluent again last night. A seat at the top table is tantalisingly close now
		
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Best of luck to your boys, but it seems 'written in the stars' for Brentford in my view with the new stadium etc. 

At least the playoffs are 3rd v 4th. Seems mad to me that the team 11 points off either of you could have gone up instead but that's the way it works!


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## fundy (Jul 31, 2020)

So the EFL have docked Birmingham 12 points, but for next season not the one just finished (for prior season over spending offenses). Yet Wigan went into admin because of a dodgy owner (approved by the EFL) and they were docked 12 points this season. Wigan down, Birmingham stayed up.

Lets hope theres room in the court schedules because the Championship isnt going to be in any position to start soon otherwise lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Best of luck to your boys, but it seems 'written in the stars' for Brentford in my view with the new stadium etc.

At least the playoffs are 3rd v 4th. Seems mad to me that the team 11 points off either of you could have gone up instead but that's the way it works!
		
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I've been saying that all the way down the line since WBA got 2nd and it's destined Brentford will start life in their new stadium as a PL side. Given they turned us over twice in the league and looked sharp on Monday and we'll potentially be without Mitrovic and Kabano they have to start hot favourites. Mind you even if we fail, Parker has done a great job in his first full season


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## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

It’s a blue day 💙


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## Wolf (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			It’s a blue day 💙

View attachment 31828

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Lets hope not....


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## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2020)

I heard a stat yesterday, Chelsea have only beaten  Arsenal once in 76 yrs in the FA Cup.


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## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I heard a stat yesterday, Chelsea have only beaten  Arsenal once in 76 yrs in the FA Cup.
		
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So put your money on Arsenal then.


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## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I heard a stat yesterday, Chelsea have only beaten  Arsenal once in 76 yrs in the FA Cup.
		
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For third time in the last four seasons, Chelsea and Arsenal end the season playing each other in a cup final.

Chelsea and Arsenal have won a combined 12 of the past 20 FA Cup finals (six each).

Chelsea are unbeaten in three games against Arsenal since the Gunners’ 2-0 home Premier League win in January 2019.

This is the 15th time Chelsea and Arsenal have been drawn together in the FA Cup. 

The Blues have won five and Arsenal nine of the meetings so far. 

However, the semi-final in 2009, thanks to goals from Florent Malouda and Didier Drogba, is the only victory in our last nine encounters in the competition since 1947.

So like all stats & records, things change, and that will start today 💙


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## Kellfire (Aug 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			So the EFL have docked Birmingham 12 points, but for next season not the one just finished (for prior season over spending offenses). Yet Wigan went into admin because of a dodgy owner (approved by the EFL) and they were docked 12 points this season. Wigan down, Birmingham stayed up.

Lets hope theres room in the court schedules because the Championship isnt going to be in any position to start soon otherwise lol
		
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I think you mean Sheffield Wednesday but your point still stands.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			For third time in the last four seasons, Chelsea and Arsenal end the season playing each other in a cup final.

Chelsea and Arsenal have won a combined 12 of the past 20 FA Cup finals (six each).

Chelsea are unbeaten in three games against Arsenal since the Gunners’ 2-0 home Premier League win in January 2019.

This is the 15th time Chelsea and Arsenal have been drawn together in the FA Cup.

The Blues have won five and Arsenal nine of the meetings so far.

However, the semi-final in 2009, thanks to goals from Florent Malouda and Didier Drogba, is the only victory in our last nine encounters in the competition since 1947.

So like all stats & records, things change, and that will start today 💙
		
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I think Chelsea will win.
Only because of Gunners defence.
Pulisic will be to much for them, he’s a quality footballer.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			So the EFL have docked Birmingham 12 points, but for next season not the one just finished (for prior season over spending offenses). Yet Wigan went into admin because of a dodgy owner (approved by the EFL) and they were docked 12 points this season. Wigan down, Birmingham stayed up.

Lets hope theres room in the court schedules because the Championship isnt going to be in any position to start soon otherwise lol
		
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I think that you should perhaps proof read your posts.

Sheffield Wednesday should not be confused with Birmingham City. 

Try the 2011 League Cup Final as an aide memoire.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 1, 2020)

Most of Wolverhampton cheering Chelsea on today, feel dirty just typing it.


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## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I think that you should perhaps proof read your posts.

Sheffield Wednesday should not be confused with Birmingham City.

Try the 2011 League Cup Final as an aide memoire.
		
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apologies for my mistake got 2 complete non entity sides mixed up, would you like me to post them to you in advance for you to proof read? i assume youve never made a simple mistake like that


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## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

How to kill Abide with me 😳


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## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			For third time in the last four seasons, Chelsea and Arsenal end the season playing each other in a cup final.

Chelsea and Arsenal have won a combined 12 of the past 20 FA Cup finals (six each).

Chelsea are unbeaten in three games against Arsenal since the Gunners’ 2-0 home Premier League win in January 2019.

This is the 15th time Chelsea and Arsenal have been drawn together in the FA Cup.

The Blues have won five and Arsenal nine of the meetings so far.

However, the semi-final in 2009, thanks to goals from Florent Malouda and Didier Drogba, is the only victory in our last nine encounters in the competition since 1947.

*So like all stats & records, things change, and that will start today* 💙
		
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Not today Fishy old boy 😉


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## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Not today Fishy old boy 😉
		
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only ruined by a poor ref


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## Piece (Aug 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No not for me.

Good to see Guardiola splashing the cash instead of trying to coach the expensive under performing CB's he's already got.
		
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I agree. I’ve seen a lot of Ake, mostly at Watford, and he isn’t City quality. There was a reason why Ake was on loan and has played for teams near the bottom.


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## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			only ruined by a poor ref
		
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enjoy your pint of bitter mate


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 1, 2020)

Piece said:



			I agree. I’ve seen a lot of Ake, mostly at Watford, and he isn’t City quality. There was a reason why Ake was on loan and has played for teams near the bottom.
		
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I don't see what Ake will bring and would be concerned about his quality especially against top teams in the CL. I agree he has played for teams near the bottom and so perhaps that has helped him stand out. Perhaps Pep has seen something and feels he can coach him to improve him. Not sure he is worth the price tag at this stage and some fo these figures aren't exactly top drawer https://www.skysports.com/football/...-bournemouth-defender-improve-manchester-city


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## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

sounds like Eddie Howe gone from Bournemouth


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## nickjdavis (Aug 1, 2020)

I guess it says a lot when a mid range defender can be sold for 40m plus, but no one wants to spend 300m on an entire club!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			sounds like Eddie Howe gone from Bournemouth
		
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https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-bournemouth-after-premier-league-relegation 

Shame but I wonder if he just feels he has taken them as far as he can. Maybe with Aki looking as though he is on the way out he thinks everything he has worked towards is being dismantled and doesn't relish having to rebuild with the expectation that will be there that Bournemouth will bounce back (or at the very worse make the play offs). I think he is a talented manager and so I don't think he'll be short of offers


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			only ruined by a poor ref
		
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Agree only seen motd .
Can someone explain to me why that was a second yellow and red.
Very poor officials .
Refs and VAR need to step up next year as this year they have been Pish poor imo.


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## Swingalot (Aug 1, 2020)

Cup final was all that’s bad about the game. Diving, cheating, players trying to get Other players sent off, surrounding refs, screaming at officials, abusing refs, managers acting like kids,  VAR rubbish etc.


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## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			Cup final was all that’s bad about the game. Diving, cheating, players trying to get Other players sent off, surrounding refs, screaming at officials, abusing refs, managers acting like kids,  VAR rubbish etc.
		
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really? was it that bad? worse than other games?

not see any good in the game? Pulisics skill for the first goal, Aubmaeyangs brilliant finish for the winner?

who abused the ref?

what was the VAR rubbish?


Im the first to criticise the antics, often where Arsenal players were concerned, was today really that bad?


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			really? was it that bad? worse than other games?

not see any good in the game? Pulisics skill for the first goal, Aubmaeyangs brilliant finish for the winner?

who abused the ref?

what was the VAR rubbish?


Im the first to criticise the antics, often where Arsenal players were concerned, was today really that bad?
		
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The dive and scream for the second yellow was a disgrace.
Crumpled in a heap screaming like he had a broken leg.
He hardly touched him.
Refs should be able to see that. And VAR???


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## Kellfire (Aug 3, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1289664506814070785looks like some corners are being cut to produce Everton shirts this season.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 3, 2020)

Seen a few reports of dodgy badges on the new gear. First few weeks of the new Hummel deal and been a few people complaining that the badges are coming off the shirts and training gear after a wash or two and now a few pictures of wonky badges.  Not a good look or start to the relationship with Hummel.


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## Wolf (Aug 3, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Seen a few reports of dodgy badges on the new gear. First few weeks of the new Hummel deal and been a few people complaining that the badges are coming off the shirts and training gear after a wash or two and now a few pictures of wonky badges.  Not a good look or start to the relationship with Hummel.
		
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Literally just seen someone on my Facebook share a picture of the new kit they ordered for their kid, the badge is at a 45 degree angle looks terrible


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## Dan2501 (Aug 3, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Literally just seen someone on my Facebook share a picture of the new kit they ordered for their kid, the badge is at a 45 degree angle looks terrible
		
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Yep, been a ton of similar posts on Twitter the last couple of weeks. Sizing is totally different to last years' kits, badges falling off, badges put on wonky, badges looking like they've been burnt, shocking stuff really. It's a shame, as the response to their initial reveal of the kits was so positive but all that positivity is gone now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1289664506814070785looks like some corners are being cut to produce Everton shirts this season.
		
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Wolf said:



			Literally just seen someone on my Facebook share a picture of the new kit they ordered for their kid, the badge is at a 45 degree angle looks terrible
		
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Could they not have just spoken to the shop, sent it back for a replacement? Why the need to race to social media to complain about something that is easy to resolve? Even more bizarre when it looks bad on your own club.

On the upside at least our new sponsor is not one of the many betting companies that are invading football


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## Stuart_C (Aug 3, 2020)

This could only happen to Everton 😂😂😂😂


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## Wolf (Aug 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Could they not have just spoken to the shop, sent it back for a replacement? Why the need to race to social media to complain about something that is easy to resolve? Even more bizarre when it looks bad on your own club.

On the upside at least our new sponsor is not one of the many betting companies that are invading football  

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Maybe they did speak to them, but as with all things in modern society its inevitable it will end up on SM for a bit of attention.


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## sam85 (Aug 3, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Maybe they did speak to them, but as with all things in modern society its inevitable it will end up on SM for a bit of attention.
		
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I'm sure plenty of these kinds of posts are for attention, but more and more companies only seem to respond when you post to them on social media.  It does my head in when companies ignore my emails for days/weeks but respond to a social media post in a matter of hours!


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## Wolf (Aug 3, 2020)

sam85 said:



			I'm sure plenty of these kinds of posts are for attention, but more and more companies only seem to respond when you post to them on social media.  It does my head in when companies ignore my emails for days/weeks but respond to a social media post in a matter of hours!
		
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Does seem in modern society many companies only respond to negative SM appearance rather than complaints


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## Orikoru (Aug 3, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Best of luck to your boys, but it seems 'written in the stars' for Brentford in my view with the new stadium etc.

At least the playoffs are 3rd v 4th. Seems mad to me that the team 11 points off either of you could have gone up instead but that's the way it works!
		
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I've always thought the play-offs are a bit of a crap system, designed to make more money for Wembley Stadium if anything. Often the team finishing 6th is a side that just hit a patch of form towards the end of the season, then they carry that form into the play-offs meaning the chance of them going up from 6th place is actually quite high. I prefer the German system where the 3rd best side has a play-off against the 3rd worst side from the top flight. That obviously shows you which side deserves to be there more.


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## larmen (Aug 3, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I've always thought the play-offs are a bit of a crap system, designed to make more money for Wembley Stadium if anything. Often the team finishing 6th is a side that just hit a patch of form towards the end of the season, then they carry that form into the play-offs meaning the chance of them going up from 6th place is actually quite high. I prefer the German system where the 3rd best side has a play-off against the 3rd worst side from the top flight. That obviously shows you which side deserves to be there more.
		
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My team rescued itself in that this year, playing an 'amazing 0-0' at home, and then progressing through a 'dominant 2-2' at a 2nd division team due to the away goal rule. Totally undeserved but I take it.
To be fair, we gave away a clumsy penalty in the 98th minute of stoppage time, should have won that, which would have won me £70 as well.

I really dislike the relegation playoff in Germany, but I also dislike the promotion playoff over here. It should be straight up and down in any league system.

Brentford is my adopted team because I lived there for 12ish year (never been to the stadium) and they should have gone up before. It's their time!


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## Kellfire (Aug 3, 2020)

Sanchez to Inter for free and they take the wages. Can’t complain.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 3, 2020)

larmen said:



			Brentford is my adopted team because I lived there for 12ish year (never been to the stadium) and they should have gone up before. It's their time!
		
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Not sure about "their time" but very much like a teams name being on the cup I think they are destined to win tomorrow and start life in their new stadium as a PL side. I'e gone 2-0 Brentford win especially as Fulham lost twice in the league to them. Hope it's a half decent game and at least we give it a go rather than doing what he have done and have loads of possession and do nothing with it going forward and defending poorly. Another 90 minutes of agony beckons. Whoever wins I think will need to make some signings as neither are strong enough with their current squads


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## Kellfire (Aug 3, 2020)

Infantino is under criminal investigation yet hasn’t been suspended pending that investigation. I wonder why he doesn’t want to give up his power to his second in command...

Same old Fifa.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 6, 2020)

Good.
Premier League clubs vote against use of five substitutes for 2020-21
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53662014


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Good.
Premier League clubs vote against use of five substitutes for 2020-21
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53662014

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Agreed - benefits the clubs with big squads excessively


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## 4LEX (Aug 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I've always thought the play-offs are a bit of a crap system, designed to make more money for Wembley Stadium if anything. Often the team finishing 6th is a side that just hit a patch of form towards the end of the season, then they carry that form into the play-offs meaning the chance of them going up from 6th place is actually quite high. I prefer the German system where the 3rd best side has a play-off against the 3rd worst side from the top flight. That obviously shows you which side deserves to be there more.
		
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Disagree. The German system is rubbish and the games are usually dire. If applied to England they'd be weighted massively in favour of the Premier League side. Bournemouth v Brentford would end one way, 9/10 times.

The Play Offs have been one of the best inventions and given English many more amazing moments than the PL title races over the same time.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I've always thought the play-offs are a bit of a crap system, designed to make more money for Wembley Stadium if anything. Often the team finishing 6th is a side that just hit a patch of form towards the end of the season, then they carry that form into the play-offs meaning the chance of them going up from 6th place is actually quite high. I prefer the German system where the 3rd best side has a play-off against the 3rd worst side from the top flight. That obviously shows you which side deserves to be there more.
		
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Nah the play offs are class

We have been involved in 3. Lost 1 where we finished 4th, won two in which we finished 6th and 3rd so had almost all the options covered 

Play off semi final at Upton park Matty etherington top corner screamer against Ipswich one of best atmospheres I've been at

The lost final not so great but I was at the one we won last (at the loss aswell)

It's so so much more interesting than top 3

Should do for champions League! Top 4 aren't champs make it top 2 get in and 6th-3rd fight it out for one place and fa cup winner gets other .. make it more interesting


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2020)

Willian has just signed for arsenal on a free. Good bit of business imo. He will definitely improve Arsenal, a quality player.


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## Orikoru (Aug 14, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Willian has just signed for arsenal on a free. Good bit of business imo. He will definitely improve Arsenal, a quality player.
		
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Yeah and it worked out really well with David Luiz so nothing to lose.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Willian has just signed for arsenal on a free. Good bit of business imo. He will definitely improve Arsenal, a quality player.
		
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Jury out here, decent player yes but another the wrong side of 30 on chunky wages in a position we are not crying out for someone, some chatter hes going to play centrally not wide too. Our history of players we buy from Chelsea not great either lol. If its in addition to what we need and affordable then ok, if its instead of then less impressed but feels a little bit like often does that we get whos available/pushed our way rather than who we actually want


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			Jury out here, decent player yes but another the wrong side of 30 on chunky wages in a position we are not crying out for someone, some chatter hes going to play centrally not wide too. Our history of players we buy from Chelsea not great either lol. If its in addition to what we need and affordable then ok, if its instead of then less impressed but feels a little bit like often does that we get whos available/pushed our way rather than who we actually want
		
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I think you can get 2 good years out him, year 3 you can move him on the Middle East or the US if he starts to decline noticeably. I get he is getting on but he has always struck me as a very professional player, looks after himself, has the right attitude. He can improve the outlook within the camp as well as stregthen you. It makes sense, to me, for where Arsenal are right now.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think you can get 2 good years out him, year 3 you can move him on the Middle East or the US if he starts to decline noticeably. I get he is getting on but he has always struck me as a very professional player, looks after himself, has the right attitude. He can improve the outlook within the camp as well as stregthen you. It makes sense, to me, for where Arsenal are right now.
		
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Wouldnt argue with any of that, but we spent 70m on someone in that position last summer as well as having some promising youngters that can play there, its really not a priority for where we need strengthening (centre half and centre midfield for anyone whos watched less than 10 mins of an arsenal game lol) and I hate to think how much kick back Jorabchian has pocketed for this deal


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			Wouldnt argue with any of that, but we spent 70m on someone in that position last summer as well as having some promising youngters that can play there, its really not a priority for where we need strengthening (centre half and centre midfield for anyone whos watched less than 10 mins of an arsenal game lol) and I hate to think how much kick back Jorabchian has pocketed for this deal
		
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I don't really watch much of Arsenal so I certainly would not disagree with your assesment. The bits I have seen, the £70m player looks as good a deal for you as Iwobi does for us so I am not sure Willian will be doing too much blocking there. Maybe he will help bring him through? You are paying him big money but with no transfer fee so that is the trade off. 

I can't read stories about agents any more. So corrupt, so much money being drained through them. Massively depressing and an absolute scourge on the game.


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 14, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I've always thought the play-offs are a bit of a crap system, designed to make more money for Wembley Stadium if anything. Often the team finishing 6th is a side that just hit a patch of form towards the end of the season, then they carry that form into the play-offs meaning the chance of them going up from 6th place is actually quite high. I prefer the German system where the 3rd best side has a play-off against the 3rd worst side from the top flight. That obviously shows you which side deserves to be there more.
		
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"The team finishing third in the league has succeeded in winning promotion via the playoffs twelve times out of thirty-three seasons, up to and including 2019, with the 4th-placed team managing six promotions, the 5th-placed team managing ten and the 6th-placed team managing five."

The best team (i.e. the one finishing third) goes up more often than any other.

I think the playoffs are great. This season Fulham and Brentford would have been scrapping it out for third, but below that there would have been nothing to play for. Season before would have been even worse as Norwich, Sheff United and Leeds were nailed on for top three.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 14, 2020)

See that Ozil is refusing to leave Arsenal and will see out his contract. Of course you will on 350k per week and not getting a game. Don't believe for one minute he's any intention of really pressing to get back in Arteta's plans https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53763257


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			See that Ozil is refusing to leave Arsenal and will see out his contract. Of course you will on 350k per week and not getting a game. Don't believe for one minute he's any intention of really pressing to get back in Arteta's plans https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53763257

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Do you think he and Gareth Bale text each other to pass the time?


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2020)

Very easy to blame Ozil, also need to look at the idiots on the other side who gave him the contract and how he has been managed and treated of late, why shouldnt he see out the contract both sides signed in good faith


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## PieMan (Aug 14, 2020)

Willian looks thrilled to be a Gooner.....


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Willian looks thrilled to be a Gooner.....

View attachment 32028

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comment below says it all 

gonna miss him or buying so many superstars youre happy?


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## User62651 (Aug 14, 2020)

Delighted to see Athletico Madrid got put out last night from Champions League. Last thing we needed in the semi and final was that lot again with their anti-football and Simeone's miserable face. Instead we get some new blood in RB Leipzig playing PSG I believe in last 4. Both 'project' teams for minted owners but it's the modern way. 

Likely top game is this evening - winner of old war horses Bayern and Barca look best placed to win ECL but if City turn up assuming they can get past Lyon tomorrow then anything's possible. My head says Bayern tonight on form alone but the heat and location may suit the Catalans slower tempo better. 

Bayern v Barca with no crowd is really really sad. Hope the IT wizards can make a fake crowd sound about right.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Delighted to see Athletico Madrid got put out last night from Champions League. Last thing we needed in the semi and final was that lot again with their anti-football and Simeone's miserable face. Instead we get some new blood in RB Leipzig playing PSG I believe in last 4. Both 'project' teams for minted owners but it's the modern way.

Likely top game is this evening - winner of old war horses Bayern and Barca look best placed to win ECL but if City turn up assuming they can get past Lyon tomorrow then anything's possible. My head says Bayern tonight on form alone but the heat and location may suit the Catalans slower tempo better.

Bayern v Barca with no crowd is really really sad. Hope the IT wizards can make a fake crowd sound about right.
		
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The irony of watching Simeone complain that Leipzig were time wasting at the end was a scene of joy


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## PieMan (Aug 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			comment below says it all 

gonna miss him or buying so many superstars youre happy?
		
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I'm not happy that he's gone and joined your mob!! 😉 😂

To be honest I'm not that bothered he's gone. Yes he was decent when football resumed and put in a number of really good performances, but as the senior player at the start of the season some of his performances were a bit indifferent.

With Pulisic, Hudson-Odoi and Ziyech occupying the wide positions (and hopefully Havertz) he'd be down the pecking order in the attacking positions (although bit concerned over Pulisic's injury record). 

I'm more concerned over the goalkeeper and defence at the moment 😭😭😂


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2020)

PieMan said:



			I'm not happy that he's gone and joined your mob!! 😉 😂

To be honest I'm not that bothered he's gone. Yes he was decent when football resumed and put in a number of really good performances, but as the senior player at the start of the season some of his performances were a bit indifferent.

With Pulisic, Hudson-Odoi and Ziyech occupying the wide positions (and hopefully Havertz) he'd be down the pecking order in the attacking positions (although bit concerned over Pulisic's injury record).

*I'm more concerned over the goalkeeper and defence at the moment *😭😭😂
		
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got a centre half you can have back nice and cheap, will drive him over myself for you


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## PieMan (Aug 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			got a centre half you can have back nice and cheap, will drive him over myself for you 

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😂😂😂😂

In a back three he's probably still better than what we've got currently...... unfortunately 😭😭😂😂


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## Rlburnside (Aug 14, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			See that Ozil is refusing to leave Arsenal and will see out his contract. Of course you will on 350k per week and not getting a game. Don't believe for one minute he's any intention of really pressing to get back in Arteta's plans https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53763257

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I’ve not got a issue for him to sit on his arse and get that amount of money, more fool Arsenal for signing him on those terms 😂

What I thought disingenuous of him was to refuse the 12% pay cut that most players and staff agreed to, think he played most games pre lockdown since the start again he hasn't played any, refusing to take the pay cut might be a reason he's not being selected.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I’ve not got a issue for him to sit on his arse and get that amount of money, more fool Arsenal for signing him on those terms 😂

*What I thought disingenuous of him was to refuse the 12% pay cut that most players and staff agreed to*.
		
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He refused it being forced on them at short notice without agreements that no one else would lose their jobs etc, if anything he's been proven correct with the club making 55 redundancies including most of the scouting department

I sound like an apologist for him but think the finger needs pointing more at the board/owner


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## Rlburnside (Aug 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			He refused it being forced on them at short notice without agreements that no one else would lose their jobs etc, if anything he's been proven correct with the club making 55 redundancies including most of the scouting department

I sound like an apologist for him but think the finger needs pointing more at the board/owner
		
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Ok you will know more about the story than me , just what I read on the bbc site stated most of the players accepted the pay cut, so how does that pan out with the players that accepted the cut? will this not make him and the others that didn’t take a cut unpopular?


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Ok you will know more about the story than me , just what I read on the bbc site stated most of the players accepted the pay cut, so how does that pan out with the players that accepted the cut? will this not make him and the others that didn’t take a cut unpopular?
		
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https://theathletic.co.uk/1991627/2...-job-losses-mikel-arteta-muslim-lives-matter/

worth a read, clearly a lot more going on between him and the club sadly


as far as i know his was the only name ever released as to having rejected it too, no one seems to be calling out the other 2 players who did so


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## Rlburnside (Aug 14, 2020)

fundy said:



https://theathletic.co.uk/1991627/2...-job-losses-mikel-arteta-muslim-lives-matter/

worth a read, clearly a lot more going on between him and the club sadly


as far as i know his was the only name ever released as to having rejected it too, no one seems to be calling out the other 2 players who did so
		
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Thanks

Clearly more going on than just the headline, you don’t play 10 games on the trot then just get dropped.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 14, 2020)

Saw city interested in winks for 40 million

He's clearly not a city player

Reminds me of tom cleverly

Home grown yes but 40 million?

If I was city and willing to waste 40 million I'd buy rice for whatever we charge and he is better and can cover defence aswell


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## Fish (Aug 14, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Willian looks thrilled to be a Gooner.....

View attachment 32028

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Because he twisted and bust!

Wanted a 3yr contract, I thought we were very generous in offering 2 not 1, so as a result he twisted....and lost.

Delusional gooners on social media saying he refused us to go to Arsenal, when the truth is Arsenal were the only daft club to offer 3yrs to a 32yr old 😏

Good player, will still contribute, but 3yrs was never going to happen, whatever his service.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2020)

Fish said:



			Because he twisted and bust!

Wanted a 3yr contract, I thought we were very generous in offering 2 not 1, so as a resulted he twisted....and lost.

*Delusional gooners on social media saying he refused us to go to Arsenal*, when the truth is Arsenal were the only daft club to offer 3yrs to a 32yr old 😏

Good player, will still contribute, but 3yrs was never going to happen, whatever his service.
		
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not sure which arsenal fans you follow who have said this, not seen anything like that from all the arsenal fans i know


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## Fish (Aug 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			not sure which arsenal fans you follow who have said this, not seen anything like that from all the arsenal fans i know
		
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They’re probably the same ones that all clubs have that wrongly get on the back of players & clubs, live in deep Africa/Nigeria, never been to a live match. 

 Willian had some terrible negative posters from ‘those type’, no doubt they’ll follow him to Arsenal now🤔


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## USER1999 (Aug 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			He refused it being forced on them at short notice without agreements that no one else would lose their jobs etc, if anything he's been proven correct with the club making 55 redundancies including most of the scouting department

I sound like an apologist for him but think the finger needs pointing more at the board/owner
		
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Rumour has it the scouting dept haven't been part of the redundancies. They were on contracts that have been binned, so no pay out, and can be replaced.

Redundancies were more to do with hospitality side of things, as there is no requirement at this time.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Rumour has it the scouting dept haven't been part of the redundancies. They were on contracts that have been binned, so no pay out, and can be replaced.

Redundancies were more to do with hospitality side of things, as there is no requirement at this time.
		
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Board doesnt do themselves any favours with how they have communicated the redundancies and job losses, a few days after winning the cup final and blaming Covid without clear explanations, pretty soon after getting players to take a pay cut to "save other jobs" and then rushing off to pay fortunes to agents and for new player contracts. At the same time theyre happy to pick and choose which players they are supporting publicly. Cant say Im much of a fan of the way the club is run


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## USER1999 (Aug 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			Board doesnt do themselves any favours with how they have communicated the redundancies and job losses, a few days after winning the cup final and blaming Covid without clear explanations, pretty soon after getting players to take a pay cut to "save other jobs" and then rushing off to pay fortunes to agents and for new player contracts. At the same time theyre happy to pick and choose which players they are supporting publicly. Cant say Im much of a fan of the way the club is run
		
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Absolutely gets my vote. It's run by a bunch of charlatans.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2020)

Imagine making out that you come from the city of the club you “support” and talking down to other “internet fans” 😂😂😂😂


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## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Saw city interested in winks for 40 million

He's clearly not a city player

Reminds me of tom cleverly

Home grown yes but 40 million?

If I was city and willing to waste 40 million I'd buy rice for whatever we charge and he is better and can cover defence aswell
		
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I'm surprised at that. Surely he gets less minutes there than he does with us?? In one report they said Pep might be interested because he's a "Spanish style player". Translated as he can hit a 5 yard pass??   I guess it depends whether Hojbjerg is here to replace him. I figured Ndombele would be the one moving on after it hasn't worked out for him with José.

Edit: I should point out he's obviously a lot better than Tom Cleverley. He does have a very good eye for a pass and covers a lot of ground. I would not say he's City level though. I would like to see him make it in our team. When he's on form he's very good and keeps the whole team ticking over, he probably has too many anonymous games though, where you'd think he was still 20 but he's 24 now.


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Absolutely gets my vote. It's run by a bunch of charlatans.
		
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Sanhelli gone, its a start I guess. Wonder if he got to sign off the Willian deal as his parting gift


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## need_my_wedge (Aug 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sanhelli gone, its a start I guess. Wonder if he got to sign off the Willian deal as his parting gift
		
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Is it a coincidence after the club launched an investigation in to the Pepe transfer costs.....? That's the first question that came to my mind when I read it. Was he George Graham in disguise with a brown paper bag?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 15, 2020)

Sheffield United have just signed the Bournemouth keeper for £18.5m. You have to assume that means Henderson is back at Man United next season. I'm not sure Sheffield have the cash to spend that on a back up.


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## USER1999 (Aug 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sanhelli gone, its a start I guess. Wonder if he got to sign off the Willian deal as his parting gift
		
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Hopefully that will end the obsession with Kia, although he is also Edu's agent.

It seems the Kroenkes lawyer is getting stuck in. Hopefully more to come.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 15, 2020)

I wonder what his price will end up being after a few seasons with a good side in Dortmund. If he's as good as predicted surely he'll eclipse Sancho and his price tag https://www.skysports.com/football/...dfielder-says-price-tag-does-not-add-pressure


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## 3-off-the-tee (Aug 16, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I wonder what his price will end up being after a few seasons with a good side in Dortmund. If he's as good as predicted surely he'll eclipse Sancho and his price tag https://www.skysports.com/football/...dfielder-says-price-tag-does-not-add-pressure

Click to expand...

It’s good to see the odd English player trying their hand abroad at a young age. Hopefully Bellingham/Sancho have set a bit of a trend in doing so and in Sancho’s case doing very well out of it.

On next season I am a Villa fan and can see us going down if we don’t spend wisely on players. Recruitment has been terrible for the last decade with very little quality coming in bar a few outliers.


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## Orikoru (Aug 17, 2020)

So Spurs have signed Joe Hart. Originally I was unimpressed of course, but I think it makes more sense for us than him. Third choice goalie on a free and ticks a home grown box - no problem. I'm surprised he didn't want to go somewhere where he could get a game and potentially have a last chance at proving himself though. Obviously content now to earn a wage sitting in the stands. Or maybe he's still confident enough that he reckons he can push past Gaza and Hugo?? Wouldn't put it past him to think that.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			So Spurs have signed Joe Hart. Originally I was unimpressed of course, but I think it makes more sense for us than him. Third choice goalie on a free and ticks a home grown box - no problem. I'm surprised he didn't want to go somewhere where he could get a game and potentially have a last chance at proving himself though. Obviously content now to earn a wage sitting in the stands. Or maybe he's still confident enough that he reckons he can push past Gaza and Hugo?? Wouldn't put it past him to think that.
		
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He's probably better than Gazzaniga, and Lloris is on the wane so it could be a good free signing if he knuckles down and improves under Mourinho.


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## Orikoru (Aug 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He's probably better than Gazzaniga, and Lloris is on the wane so it could be a good free signing if he knuckles down and improves under Mourinho.
		
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I don't know if he's better than Gaza, but the competition could do both of them a bit of good anyway. Never hurts as a bit of a kick up the arse - a Prem winning goalie coming into the club.


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## Grant85 (Aug 18, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sanhelli gone, its a start I guess. Wonder if he got to sign off the Willian deal as his parting gift
		
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huge problem for Arsenal is that it's almost impossible for the team to compete without getting absolutely everything correct. 

We need to get 100% out of all players in the squad, they need to be the correct players and paid the correct amount of money. 
We need to have the correct manager and coaching team (personally happy with what is in place). 
We need the off field part to have great synergy with the on field part, as well as with the fans. 

It took quite a few years for FSG to get things correct at Liverpool, but with a similar business model and similar potential budget that Arsenal have, they have achieved great things. It's going to be very difficult to compete financially with other clubs in England & Europe so we can't afford dodgy dealings and poor leadership in the boardroom. 

We also need to capitalise on outgoing players who can generate the right fees. 
Part of the success of Liverpool was built on the huge fees for Suarez and Coutinho. They realised that the players wanted to move on and got as much out of them as they could, giving them £100m or so each time to reinvest into the team. Arsenal have massively failed with that in terms of Sanchez, Ozil and Ramsey. Aubameyang not quite the correct age any more to get a huge fee. 

Also, lets not gloss over the fact that an FA Cup salvaged a dreadful season in the league. 8th place and 56 points is miles off where the team needs to be. The same squad might do better next season and there were signs towards the end of the season that we have more steel, but ultimately some very astute business has to be done to have at least a shot at top 4. I'm not sure Willian quite counts as that, but at least it is a player with title winning experience.


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## Orikoru (Aug 18, 2020)

Confirming what we already knew, Paul Ince is an idiot: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...naming-Arsenal-legends-statues-pair-them.html


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## Stuart_C (Aug 18, 2020)

Grant85 said:



			huge problem for Arsenal is that it's almost impossible for the team to compete without getting absolutely everything correct.

We need to get 100% out of all players in the squad, they need to be the correct players and paid the correct amount of money.
We need to have the correct manager and coaching team (personally happy with what is in place).
We need the off field part to have great synergy with the on field part, as well as with the fans.

It took quite a few years for FSG to get things correct at Liverpool, but with a similar business model and similar potential budget that Arsenal have, they have achieved great things. It's going to be very difficult to compete financially with other clubs in England & Europe so we can't afford dodgy dealings and poor leadership in the boardroom.

We also need to capitalise on outgoing players who can generate the right fees.
*Part of the success of Liverpool was built on the huge fees for Suarez *and Coutinho. They realised that the players wanted to move on and got as much out of them as they could, giving them £100m or so each time to reinvest into the team. Arsenal have massively failed with that in terms of Sanchez, Ozil and Ramsey. Aubameyang not quite the correct age any more to get a huge fee.

Also, lets not gloss over the fact that an FA Cup salvaged a dreadful season in the league. 8th place and 56 points is miles off where the team needs to be. The same squad might do better next season and there were signs towards the end of the season that we have more steel, but ultimately some very astute business has to be done to have at least a shot at top 4. I'm not sure Willian quite counts as that, but at least it is a player with title winning experience.
		
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Coutinho probably but certainly not Suarez. Rodgers spunked a lot of the suarez money on rubbish like  Benteke, Borini etc.


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## Kellfire (Aug 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Coutinho probably but certainly not Suarez. Rodgers spunked a lot of the suarez money on rubbish like  Benteke, Borini etc.
		
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Or your recruitment team did?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Or your recruitment team did?
		
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Rodgers was part of the committee at that time and according to him, he had the final say.

A totally different model now.


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## Grant85 (Aug 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Coutinho probably but certainly not Suarez. Rodgers spunked a lot of the suarez money on rubbish like  Benteke, Borini etc.
		
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That's fair enough, but if they'd kept him an extra year he'd have left for next to nothing and they'd still need / want to spend money on the squad. 

And Benteke came a year after the Suarez transfer.

These are the transfers in the window Suarez left. Ok, so prices have massively inflated since then, but effectively this is a 'free' window for them and some decent long term acquisitions. Not going to get every transfer correct but they'd probably have spent similar kind of money even if Suarez had stayed and ended up leaving for free after a year of upsetting the squad. 

Rickie Lambert – Forward – Southampton – £4m
Emre Can – Midfielder – Bayer Leverkusen – £10m
Adam Lallana – Midfielder – Southampton – £25m
Lazar Markovic – Forward – Benfica – £20m
Dejan Lovren – Defender – Southampton – £20m
Divock Origi – Forward – Lille – £10m
Javier Manquillo – Right-back – Atletico Madrid – Loan
Alberto Moreno – Left-back – Sevilla – £12m
Mario Balotelli – Forward – AC Milan – £16m


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## Kellfire (Aug 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Rodgers was part of the committee at that time and according to him, he had the final say.

A totally different model now.
		
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Fair enough, didn’t realise that. How antiquated!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2020)

Grant85 said:



			That's fair enough, but if they'd kept him an extra year he'd have left for next to nothing and they'd still need / want to spend money on the squad.

And Benteke came a year after the Suarez transfer.

These are the transfers in the window Suarez left. Ok, so prices have massively inflated since then, but effectively this is a 'free' window for them and some decent long term acquisitions. Not going to get every transfer correct but they'd probably have spent similar kind of money *even if Suarez had stayed and ended up leaving for free after a year of upsetting the squad.*

Rickie Lambert – Forward – Southampton – £4m
Emre Can – Midfielder – Bayer Leverkusen – £10m
Adam Lallana – Midfielder – Southampton – £25m
Lazar Markovic – Forward – Benfica – £20m
Dejan Lovren – Defender – Southampton – £20m
Divock Origi – Forward – Lille – £10m
Javier Manquillo – Right-back – Atletico Madrid – Loan
Alberto Moreno – Left-back – Sevilla – £12m
Mario Balotelli – Forward – AC Milan – £16m
		
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A lot of money pished up against the wall. 

Upsetting the squad?? Suarez carried that side for 2 seasons and by all accounts he was well respected by the squad. Anyway the point stands, Rodgers and the transfer committee  wasted money. 

Since klopp came I think theres only 3 players left of Rodgers squad. Henderson,Milner, Origi.

Moreno,Lallana and Lovren rarely featured,  Origi doesnt get much time neither.


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## Paperboy (Aug 19, 2020)

But Lallana did to his run of injuries though Stu.


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## Grant85 (Aug 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			A lot of money pished up against the wall.

Upsetting the squad?? Suarez carried that side for 2 seasons and by all accounts he was well respected by the squad. Anyway the point stands, Rodgers and the transfer committee  wasted money.

Since klopp came I think theres only 3 players left of Rodgers squad. Henderson,Milner, Origi.

Moreno,Lallana and Lovren rarely featured,  Origi doesnt get much time neither.
		
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Rodgers top 4 finishes allowed foundations to be set. Tough to say that without Can, Lallana, Lovren and others from Rodgers era they'd have finished 4th and things take that bit longer to happen without Champions League money. 

My point on Suarez is that once he knew Barca were in for him and he wanted to leave, then no point keeping a potentially unhappy player. Especially a mercenary like Suarez.


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## Orikoru (Aug 19, 2020)

Lallana was really good for Liverpool, and Emre and Origi were good signings at those prices as well. The others, not so much.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know if he's better than Gaza, but the competition could do both of them a bit of good anyway. Never hurts as a bit of a kick up the arse - a Prem winning goalie coming into the club.
		
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The rise and fall of Joe Hart so quickly is shocking

He has become a terrible keeper..watch out for shots low left of him he will do the bunny hop and miss them. However I feel for him. Really used to rate him.

I wonder if pep hadn't destroyed him he may have gone back to city now as 3rd choice as they are throwing money at HG Players 

He will do a job and enable you to get more over sea players in but he won't push the top 2


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## Orikoru (Aug 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			The rise and fall of Joe Hart so quickly is shocking

He has become a terrible keeper..watch out for shots low left of him he will do the bunny hop and miss them. However I feel for him. Really used to rate him.

I wonder if pep hadn't destroyed him he may have gone back to city now as 3rd choice as they are throwing money at HG Players

He will do a job and enable you to get more over sea players in but he won't push the top 2
		
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I don't expect him to play much, if at all. I'm just saying more competition is never bad - he'll push them a touch more than Vorm did in his last season. And having a Premier League winner in the dressing room or the training ground can't be bad. As I said, it's a no-brainer for us, but I'm more confused about why he didn't want to go somewhere where he'd start. I suppose that's Championship now though, or at least relegation end of the Prem.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't expect him to play much, if at all. I'm just saying more competition is never bad - he'll push them a touch more than Vorm did in his last season. And having a Premier League winner in the dressing room or the training ground can't be bad. As I said, it's a no-brainer for us, but I'm more confused about why he didn't want to go somewhere where he'd start. I suppose that's Championship now though, or at least relegation end of the Prem.
		
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His drive must be shot now

He didn't push pope at Burnley 

He looked terrible for us 

He could have done a job in a championship club and rebuilt himself like Foster and Carson did

But I think he just happy to play fiddle now


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## SteveW86 (Aug 19, 2020)

Not premier league, but Koeman’s agent has done a cracking job getting him in at Barca hasn’t he?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 19, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Not premier league, but Koeman’s agent has done a cracking job getting him in at Barca hasn’t he?
		
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By all accounts he will be there a year, presidential elections will happen and he will be out. He has a 2 yr deal, he will be nicely paid off. His job will be to make unpopular decisions, get rid of some established but declining players. In effect he is a well paid fall guy.

If he does well he will see out both years. If the job is as tough as it looks he will leave undamaged after one and much wealthier.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 19, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Not premier league, but Koeman’s agent has done a cracking job getting him in at Barca hasn’t he?
		
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A dream job for him, absolutely. Without the playing/coaching connection there he never gets the job based on his management CV IMO. As far as I can see, he took his dream job at the only point he was going to get the offer - a declining, ageing squad that needs a serious overhaul, with a Barcelona who are essentially broke and need to sell to buy. 

As LT says, paid to be the fall guy.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 20, 2020)

Now this thread can properly begin . Opening weekend fixtures.

Let's hope we see the transfer market really begin now, it adds some fun to things.

*Saturday 12 September:*



Crystal Palace v Southampton
Fulham v Arsenal
Liverpool v Leeds United
Tottenham Hotspur v Everton
West Bromwich Albion v Leicester City
West Ham United v Newcastle United
*Monday 14 September:*



Brighton v Chelsea
Sheffield United v Wolves
*Fixtures to be rescheduled:*



Burnley v Manchester United
Manchester City v Aston Villa

(@Paperboy do you think I got away with this? )


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## Bazzatron (Aug 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Now this thread can properly begin . Opening weekend fixtures.

Let's hope we see the transfer market really begin now, it adds some fun to things.

*Saturday 12 September:*



Crystal Palace v Southampton
Fulham v Arsenal
Liverpool v Leeds United
Tottenham Hotspur v Everton
West Bromwich Albion v Leicester City
West Ham United v Newcastle United
*Monday 14 September:*



Brighton v Chelsea
Sheffield United v Wolves
*Fixtures to be rescheduled:*



Burnley v Manchester United
Manchester City v Aston Villa

(@Paperboy do you think I got away with this? )
		
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How hard would it have been for us and Chelsea to play the two Manchester clubs so we can get more rest? Instead, Burnley and Villa get an extra week on everyone for no reason.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 20, 2020)

Or just


Bazzatron said:



			How hard would it have been for us and Chelsea to play the two Manchester clubs so we can get more rest? Instead, Burnley and Villa get an extra week on everyone for no reason.
		
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Or just a Manchester derby as they’re the only two teams that officially need a break. of course that would negate the “randomness” of the draw......


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## fundy (Aug 20, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Or just


Or just a Manchester derby as they’re the only two teams that officially need a break. of course that would negate the “randomness” of the draw......
		
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not sure that would be desired by too many with manchester supposedly under stricter lock down currently


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## Papas1982 (Aug 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			not sure that would be desired by too many with manchester supposedly under stricter lock down currently
		
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True, but they're gonna play at some point and covid isn't going anywhere. If the fans can't stay on then they'll just case themselves stricfer lockdown later.....


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## Bazzatron (Aug 20, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Or just


Or just a Manchester derby as they’re the only two teams that officially need a break. of course that would negate the “randomness” of the draw......
		
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Think Wolves need one too surely. Started before both and only ended a week before them.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 20, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Or just


Or just a Manchester derby as they’re the only two teams that officially need a break. of course that would negate the “randomness” of the draw......
		
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I read a piece on how the fixtures are created a few years ago. There are many factors added into the mix meaning it is not really that random, I suspect your quote marks mean you probably know this. It does mean though that these things really should be simple to manipulate and resolve. Don't know why not in this instance.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I read a piece on how the fixtures are created a few years ago. There are many factors added into the mix meaning it is not really that random, I suspect your quote marks mean you probably know this. It does mean though that these things really should be simple to manipulate and resolve. Don't know why not in this instance.
		
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Yeah that was my point. It amazes me how bank holidays and Xmas/Easter always seem to throw up a super Sunday.......



Bazzatron said:



			Think Wolves need one too surely. Started before both and only ended a week before them.
		
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Harsh as it is, your start date is irrelevant. You’ll know better than me, but did you play as many friendlies as usual Pre season, or use Europa as warm ups? The truth is that Without covid all teams would be starting the same time this year. it’s only clubs Who’s seasons have been extended due to covid that are starting later. A cut off point was made and only City and UtD went past it. Many years the top clubs will play many more games than the mid table teams yet they don’t get a later start.

edit to say. Saints first Pre season game 14th July. Wolves was 17th.
both played 5 games prior to their first PL. 

so no real difference unless you consider crusaders and Pyunik tough tests.......


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 20, 2020)

Cracking 70's style cracker with Liverpool at home to Liverpool. Can imagine Giles and Bremner going at it with Keegan et al. Shame the modern game would mean it would be abandoned after 10 minutes these days


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## Stuart_C (Aug 20, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



*Cracking 70's style cracker with Liverpool at home to Liverpool. *Can imagine Giles and Bremner going at it with Keegan et al. Shame the modern game would mean it would be abandoned after 10 minutes these days
		
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Impossible Homer 🤭🤭


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## fundy (Aug 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Impossible Homer 🤭🤭
		
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new meaning to the merseyside derby eh


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## Stuart_C (Aug 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			new meaning to the merseyside derby eh 

Click to expand...

Haha stop it you'll have the conspiracy theorists off again, the PL will make sure Liverpool win brigade....... 

Already heard the blooos  complaining theyve lost advantage in the home derby due to no fans 😁😁😁


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## fundy (Aug 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha stop it you'll have the conspiracy theorists off again, the PL will make sure Liverpool win brigade.......

Already heard the blooos  complaining theyve lost advantage in the home derby due to no fans 😁😁😁
		
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I prefer the section of your fans want your owners out lol  If they want a swap let me know


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## Stuart_C (Aug 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			I prefer the section of your fans want your owners out lol  If they want a swap let me know 

Click to expand...

Haha I know. Deluded feckers. 

I've been sceptical about them since they've came in, probably because of what the previous American owners done.


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## fundy (Aug 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha I know. Deluded feckers.

I've been sceptical about them since they've came in, probably because of what the previous American owners done.
		
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I only see the odd snippet retweeted by one of your fans from here but do make me laugh, dont get me wrong i know we have a bunch of deluded idiots as most clubs do but just after finally winning the league???


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## Stuart_C (Aug 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			I only see the odd snippet retweeted by one of your fans from here but do make me laugh, dont get me wrong i know we have a bunch of deluded idiots as most clubs do but just after finally winning the league???
		
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I know, they should be enjoying the brilliant season, not cryarsing because we've not spent 500m, though I get the point we should be improving the squad even if it's just 1 top player.


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## fundy (Aug 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I know, they should be enjoying the brilliant season, not cryarsing because we've not spent 500m, though I get the point we should be improving the squad even if it's just 1 top player.
		
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think the fav I saw was that the board and Klopp should all be sacked if they allowed Coutinho to go to Arsenal (never gonna happen anyway lol)


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Impossible Homer 🤭🤭
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Impossible Homer 🤭🤭
		
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Well if your talking the two best teams on Merseyside, you could have Liverpool vs Liverpool reserves.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			think the fav I saw was that the board and Klopp should all be sacked if they allowed Coutinho to go to Arsenal (never gonna happen anyway lol)
		
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Delusional, it Makes you wonder how these same people get through life.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2020)

@fundy  here's an example 😂😂😂

#prayforcharles


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296486747178700800


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



@fundy  here's an example 😂😂😂

#prayforcharles


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296486747178700800

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haha thats brilliant


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## Fish (Aug 21, 2020)

Someone attacked him on Wednesday but by the time he turned around on Thursday he hit the wrong person 😜


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## Dando (Aug 21, 2020)




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## pauljames87 (Aug 23, 2020)

Looks like Moyes is on verge of his first signing of the window (if you don't count soucek who was a loan turned to full time)

Shane Duffy of Brighton joining us as back up CB 

Good signing really. Beats what we have on bench

Need a striker and a left back then we have a balanced squad 

Rumour of arsenal doing a loan to buy for Anderson. Shows how much they suffered from covid if they can't afford to buy


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## fundy (Aug 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Looks like Moyes is on verge of his first signing of the window (if you don't count soucek who was a loan turned to full time)

Shane Duffy of Brighton joining us as back up CB

Good signing really. Beats what we have on bench

Need a striker and a left back then we have a balanced squad

Rumour of arsenal doing a loan to buy for Anderson. *Shows how much they suffered from covid if they can't afford to buy*

Click to expand...


more about how much theyve wasted and asset values theyve destroyed over the last 5 years than covid

not sure i believe the anderson rumour, weve been linked to almost every midfielder in europe the last few weeks


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## pauljames87 (Aug 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			more about how much theyve wasted and asset values theyve destroyed over the last 5 years than covid

not sure i believe the anderson rumour, weve been linked to almost every midfielder in europe the last few weeks
		
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I find it hard to believe as you have Pepe, willian, plus a couple others who play in that position why waste a spot on a luxury player


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## pendodave (Aug 23, 2020)

Cracking start to the European cup final.
I'd have put money on neymar putting that inside the far post.
For everything that's wrong about PSG, I think I slightly dislike Bayern more. It's a tough call, and I can't  justify it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 23, 2020)

If they can get this over the line it sounds like a good signing for Arsenal https://www.skysports.com/football/...-join-arsenal-after-27m-fee-agreed-with-lille and think Arteta isdoing a good job of rebuilding one player at a time.


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## USER1999 (Aug 23, 2020)

Agreed, Gabriel would be a good signing to play along side Saliba. Willian is a bit of a costly stop gap. Need Auba on board, and a decent midfielder.
Then it is all about sales.
Still don't get the Luiz contract extension, but then Raul is now history, which mat explain alot.


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## Fish (Aug 26, 2020)

Welcome to the Bridge Ben 💙

What a window this is turning into 😎


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 26, 2020)

Fish said:



			Welcome to the Bridge Ben 💙

What a window this is turning into 😎
		
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Happy camper?????


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## Dan2501 (Aug 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			Welcome to the Bridge Ben 💙

What a window this is turning into 😎
		
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Thiago Silva set to sign today as well. Hell of a window Chelsea are having, doing some really smart business. Chilwell's an excellent signing.


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2020)

Back to the same old Chelsea then, buying everyone under the sun. So much for bringing those youth players through last season. They'll be cast aside again.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Back to the same old Chelsea then, buying everyone under the sun. So much for bringing those youth players through last season. They'll be cast aside again.
		
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Not really. Mount is highly favoured by Lampard so he'll still feature heavily, James will still be their starting RB, Abraham's still going to get games but in rotation like he was at the end of last season, Hudson-Odoi's role will remain largely the same as last season (rotation with Pulisic when fit), as will Billy Gilmours. If anything they're just replacing the older/weaker sections of the team in this window - Chilwell replacing Alonso, Werner for Giroud, Ziyech for Willian, possibly Havertz for Pedro if they get that one over the line.


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2020)

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...nicholas-and-phil-thompson-leaving-sky-sports 

Thompson and Nicholas can sod off, but I'm a bit gutted about Le Tissier. I have a lot of respect for him. Maybe he doesn't have enough 'banter' for them.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 27, 2020)

Chelsea have signed another. Malang Sarr confirmed on a free, but in true Chelsea fashion he'll be out on loan for the season. Don't know a huge amount about him except he's got a ton of potential on Footy Manager


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## adam6177 (Aug 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Back to the same old Chelsea then, buying everyone under the sun. So much for bringing those youth players through last season. They'll be cast aside again.
		
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I raised this with a guy who's been a Chelsea fan since the season that abrhamovic took over..... He sent me this link (not updated with recent business)

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/pr...ague-tables/premier-league-table-1992-to-date

And with no blink of an eye said that there is a direct correlation between the club's that spend big and those that win things.... So it has to be done. I asked if he was worried about the FFP rules or the fact that they're buying players up and loaning them straight out again..... He just laughed.

As for the table... The net spend is very interesting reading.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...nicholas-and-phil-thompson-leaving-sky-sports

Thompson and Nicholas can sod off, but I'm a bit gutted about Le Tissier. I have a lot of respect for him. Maybe he doesn't have enough 'banter' for them. 

Click to expand...

however they have kept that prat merson

id much rather le tissier than merson


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			however they have kept that prat merson

id much rather le tissier than merson
		
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I've actually warmed to Merson a bit over the last couple of years, but he still talks absolute rubbish on there. Maybe they want more outlandish statements to provoke interest, I don't know. We'll wait and see who they replace the others with.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I've actually warmed to Merson a bit over the last couple of years, but he still talks absolute rubbish on there. Maybe they want more outlandish statements to provoke interest, I don't know. We'll wait and see who they replace the others with.
		
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Alex scott has got to be a shoe in.. she always comes across very well when on and promoted herself well going on strickly


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## adam6177 (Aug 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Alex scott has got to be a shoe in.. she always comes across very well when on and promoted herself well going on strickly
		
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You think there could be a diversity element to the appointments?


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## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			You think there could be a diversity element to the appointments?
		
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not suggesting that as she comes across well on her own merit tbh


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Alex scott has got to be a shoe in.. she always comes across very well when on and promoted herself well going on strickly
		
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No thanks. Not a fan personally. I think she struggles to get her words out too much.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 27, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			You think there could be a diversity element to the appointments?
		
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If the bookies liar of candidates are to be beloved, then yes I think there could be.

I’d have Scott on there due to her being very good imo, but some of the others don’t strike me as being any better than who is leaving.


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## SteveW86 (Aug 27, 2020)

I quite like Scott, she puts herself across well.

I think a lot of the problem with the “new” people is maybe a lack of confidence in front of the camera. All pundits can take crap at some point.


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2020)

Probably won't happen but you'd love to see some ex-players with a sense of humour on there more, like Peter Crouch for example.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 27, 2020)

Phil Thompson out,Alex Scott in 😊.


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## MegaSteve (Aug 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Probably won't happen but you'd love to see some ex-players with a sense of humour on there more, like Peter Crouch for example.
		
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Believe Crouchie is doing very nicely without having to kiss butt at Sky...


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## USER1999 (Aug 27, 2020)

They can't get rid of Merse, it's all he has left. Sadly.


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## Piece (Aug 27, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I quite like Scott, she puts herself across well.

I think a lot of the problem with the “new” people is maybe a lack of confidence in front of the camera. All pundits can take crap at some point.
		
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Just don't make Soccer Saturday bland. Most of appeal for me is the banter and the energy. If that becomes flat and dull, then I'm switching off.

I like Alex Scott. Please don't use Aluko. Please, please, no.


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2020)

Piece said:



			Just don't make Soccer Saturday bland. Most of appeal for me is the banter and the energy. If that becomes flat and dull, then I'm switching off.

*I like Alex Scott. Please don't use Aluko. Please, please, no*.
		
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If it's a choice between the two then I'm with you, Scott a thousand times.


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## adam6177 (Aug 27, 2020)

Piece said:



			Just don't make Soccer Saturday bland. Most of appeal for me is the banter and the energy. If that becomes flat and dull, then I'm switching off.

I like Alex Scott. Please don't use Aluko. Please, please, no.
		
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Honestly, I'll be surprised if this decision isn't the beginning of the end.


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## Reemul (Aug 27, 2020)

Yep, the show is all about the banter, mates watching some footie games rather than in depth analysis. Shoe horning anyone in there just because will not work, could be the beginning of the end


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 27, 2020)

Think it was a poor decision to get rid of Thommo as his rapport with Jeff Stelling is superb. I wonder if Stelling himself may consider his own future with the changes as the dynamic won't be the same and I am sure he'll have no trouble finding alternative employment


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Yep, the show is all about the banter, mates watching some footie games rather than in depth analysis. Shoe horning anyone in there just because will not work, could be the beginning of the end
		
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Yeah I agree. Leaving Merse on his own doesn't make a huge amount of sense, because if they get a younger brigade in alongside him you'll just get a divide. Unless they choose the new panellists very carefully.


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## Beezerk (Aug 27, 2020)

Clinton Morisson is as dull as dish water, please no 🙈


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## SteveW86 (Aug 27, 2020)

Very true, this show is all about the banter. If they wanted to try and give the show some new impetus, rather than change the pundits they should have got them drunk before going on air, that would have made interesting viewing. Though maybe not the best idea for Merson


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 27, 2020)

Come on, how many genuinely care about Soccer Saturday etc, most of us are either playing Golf or playing Football or busy doing something else on a saturday afternoon and probably catch no more than a few minutes here and there.


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## Reemul (Aug 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on, how many genuinely care about Soccer Saturday etc, most of us are either playing Golf or playing Football or busy doing something else on a saturday afternoon and probably catch no more than a few minutes here and there.
		
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Saturday AFternoons are my downtime, wife out, kids doing whatever and I get to sit on the sofa in the warm and watch tv. Saturday AM and Sundays are m y playign times, not Sat PM.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 27, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Saturday AFternoons are my downtime, wife out, kids doing whatever and I get to sit on the sofa in the warm and watch tv. Saturday AM and Sundays are m y playign times, not Sat PM.
		
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So you’re one, I did ask how many.
I enjoy the bits I watch, but I switch it on for the scores, not the presenters.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So you’re one, I did ask how many.
I enjoy the bits I watch, but I switch it on for the scores, not the presenters.
		
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I think the presenters make it. If you think otherwise then watch the BBC version, it's awful. The banter and chemistry of the sky one is spot on, it adds to the basic premise of the show.

I like the three who are going but so far sky have a good record of bringing in decent people. They tend to be brought through gradually, trained so to speak in midweek games before graduating to Saturday's. I'd be surprised if their replacements are completely new, it is not easy to just slot in to the role.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 27, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think the presenters make it. If you think otherwise then watch the BBC version, it's awful. The banter and chemistry of the sky one is spot on, it adds to the basic premise of the show.

I like the three who are going but so far sky have a good record of bringing in decent people. They tend to be brought through gradually, trained so to speak in midweek games before graduating to Saturday's. I'd be surprised if their replacements are completely new, it is not easy to just slot in to the role.
		
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Mate, have you ever seen watched any scores from Everton’s games and thought, “I wish X had said that instead of Y”
Like I said, I enjoy the bits I watch, I just don’t get the fuss over it, people are always looking for conspiracies or ulterior motives etc, maybe those who are being binned only appeal to a certain audience and Sky want to refresh the show.
It’s a long time since those binned actually played at the top level and a younger audience might wonder who they are.

Also, if you want truly awful, try BT Sport’s effort.


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## Piece (Aug 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on, how many genuinely care about Soccer Saturday etc, most of us are either playing Golf or playing Football or busy doing something else on a saturday afternoon and probably catch no more than a few minutes here and there.
		
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Me. If I’m not watching footy live. Even my two youngsters watch it!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 27, 2020)

Piece said:



			Me. If I’m not watching footy live. Even my two youngsters watch it!
		
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Will you still watch it next season when you can?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, have you ever seen watched any scores from Everton’s games and thought, “I wish X had said that instead of Y”
Like I said, I enjoy the bits I watch, I just don’t get the fuss over it, people are always looking for conspiracies or ulterior motives etc, maybe those who are being binned only appeal to a certain audience and Sky want to refresh the show.
It’s a long time since those binned actually played at the top level and a younger audience might wonder who they are.

Also, if you want truly awful, try BT Sport’s effort.

Click to expand...

I saw a bit of BT stuff with the recent CL games 😱😱. Terrible. 

I've no problem with a refresh, it's part of broadcasting. Thomson and Nicklaus were about done, they are probably the most detached from the current era.

The undercurrent of the outcry is disappointing, and disturbing. Not nice to see.


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## Piece (Aug 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Will you still watch it next season when you can?
		
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Yes. I’ve watched it since the year dot. I probably watched it more in the Championship as more likely to play on Sat at 3pm 😂


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## Swingalot (Aug 27, 2020)

Anyone buying the Mcguire version of events?


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## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			Anyone buying the Mcguire version of events?
		
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Sounds 10 times more believable than the "special police"


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## ger147 (Aug 28, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			Anyone buying the Mcguire version of events?
		
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No


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## GG26 (Aug 28, 2020)

Fish said:



			Welcome to the Bridge Ben 💙

What a window this is turning into 😎
		
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That’s great business for Leicester.  He is frustrating to watch.  Gets into great positions on the left, but almost always lacks the conviction to make a yard and get a cross in and turns back inside.  Makes life easy for the defending right back.  I suspect that the Chelsea fans won’t be so forgiving.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 28, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			Anyone buying the Mcguire version of events?
		
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Not a chance.


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2020)

I think Maguire's story is largely believable. Although he denies the bribery, whereas I think it's quite plausible that if he thought he was in danger he would have offered them money. But the rest of it sounds plausible to me.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 28, 2020)

Chelsea have signed another - Thiago Silva on a 1 year deal with an option to extend for another year. The other teams in the league realise the window's open right?


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Chelsea have signed another - Thiago Silva on a 1 year deal with an option to extend for another year. The other teams in the league realise the window's open right?
		
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He is getting on a bit, I wonder if he'll get found out in the Prem, having coasted in the French league for 8 years.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He is getting on a bit, I wonder if he'll get found out in the Prem, having coasted in the French league for 8 years.
		
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It screams of panic to me. There were noises about Dunk flying around before he signed a new contract and that makes so much more sense to me - 28 year old 'heart on the line' centre half who can play a bit too. Or 35 year old who's after 1 last pay day? Thiago Silva *was* a Rolls Royce of a centre half. is he anymore? not for me.


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## Fish (Aug 28, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Chelsea have signed another - Thiago Silva on a 1 year deal with an option to extend for another year. The other teams in the league realise the window's open right?
		
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I think he’ll bring a wealth of experience to the young centre backs we currently have, both on and off the pitch.  He was on a free, so irrelevant of what wages he’s on, if he strengthens a known a weakness and brings on Zouma, plus others, then it’s good business IMO.  

His commercial value will pay dividends also.

The first selection of our back four will be interesting, although we’ve got a few players self isolating currently.


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## PieMan (Aug 28, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Chelsea have signed another - Thiago Silva on a 1 year deal with an option to extend for another year. The other teams in the league realise the window's open right?
		
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After letting Cahill and David Luiz leave (the wrong side of 30) I find the Thiago Silva signing quite strange.

I could barely watch Zouma, Christensen and Rudiger towards the end of the season - absolutely dire! Don't know what Tomori did to deserve being behind those three clowns, so hopefully he's back better this season. 

Centrally I would've gone for Ake, and then bring back Ampadu from his load in Germany. And then maybe a cheeky bid for Stones and give him an opportunity to prove a point. 

Full backs also a major issue, so Chilwell positive on that front, albeit he's injured! Azpilicueta's legs have gone so hopefully James will be first choice and he'll be back-up.

The Havertz deal needs to be done pdq now so we can address the goalkeeper situation too!!

Whilst I'm loving the look of the Chelsea attacking options, at the moment it looks to me a lot like Ossie's Spurs........which was comedy gold as a neutral!! 🤦‍♂️😂


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## fundy (Aug 28, 2020)

PieMan said:



			After letting Cahill and David Luiz leave (the wrong side of 30) I find the Thiago Silva signing quite strange.

I could barely watch Zouma, Christensen and Rudiger towards the end of the season - absolutely dire! Don't know what Tomori did to deserve being behind those three clowns, so hopefully he's back better this season.

Centrally I would've gone for Ake, and then bring back Ampadu from his load in Germany. And then maybe a cheeky bid for Stones and give him an opportunity to prove a point.

Full backs also a major issue, so Chilwell positive on that front, albeit he's injured! Azpilicueta's legs have gone so hopefully James will be first choice and he'll be back-up.

The Havertz deal needs to be done pdq now so we can address the goalkeeper situation too!!

Whilst I'm loving the look of the Chelsea attacking options, at the moment it looks to me a lot like Ossie's Spurs........which was comedy gold as a neutral!! 🤦‍♂️😂
		
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still happy to drive Luiz back for you 

tbh im more worried this time next year we'll be signing Thiago Silva off you lol


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## PieMan (Aug 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			still happy to drive Luiz back for you 

tbh im more worried this time next year we'll be signing Thiago Silva off you lol
		
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Yeah Roman will quote you a very good price...... 😉 😂😂😂


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## PieMan (Aug 28, 2020)

Fish said:



			His commercial value will pay dividends also.[ /QUOTE]

Robin, a 36 year old centre back has zero commercial value! Any kid or adult with a 'Thiago Silva' shirt this season needs their head examined!! 

All the shirt sales this season will be 'Messi'......... 😉 😂😂😂
		
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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2020)

It's a fine point made by Pieman. For all of the good signings made by Chelsea they have so far failed to address the elephant in the room, they don't have a competent keeper. They've spent an awful lot of money without having touched on this key position. Any rumours on that front? If they get that sorted I can see them seriously challenging this season.


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## PieMan (Aug 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a fine point made by Pieman. For all of the good signings made by Chelsea they have so far failed to address the elephant in the room, they don't have a competent keeper. They've spent an awful lot of money without having touched on this key position. Any rumours on that front? If they get that sorted I can see them seriously challenging this season.
		
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A few rumours - main one being Oblak.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2020)

PieMan said:



			A few rumours - main one being Oblak.
		
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Another decent chunk of money then. Has the City decision blown FFP out of the water? Saying that they have a number of very good young players that they could move on and chip away at balancing things a little.


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## fundy (Aug 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Another decent chunk of money then. Has the City decision blown FFP out of the water? Saying that they have a number of very good young players that they could move on and chip away at balancing things a little.
		
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when have chelsea ever cared about FFP lol


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## pauljames87 (Aug 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Another decent chunk of money then. Has the City decision blown FFP out of the water? Saying that they have a number of very good young players that they could move on and chip away at balancing things a little.
		
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Something a lot of people haven't picked up on is ffp has been suspended for this window (maybe next I'll check) due to covids affect to clubs finances


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Something a lot of people haven't picked up on is ffp has been suspended for this window (maybe next I'll check) due to covids affect to clubs finances
		
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I wasn't aware of that. A chance for some clubs to let rip then.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I wasn't aware of that. A chance for some clubs to let rip then.
		
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Yeah and with Chelsea's ban they had a load of money ready anyways 

City will spend big 

I see Messi moving somewhere as clubs can write it off


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## Dan2501 (Aug 28, 2020)

PieMan said:



			A few rumours - main one being Oblak.
		
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Donnarumma also being linked with Chelsea quite heavily today.

I also think Thiago Silva is a very solid signing. On a free so only risk is the wages and only on a one year deal, but if he turns up willing to work and is fit he could be superb and the sort of experienced defender Chelsea need to support their fairly young and inexperienced central defence. Do still seem a little weak in that area, but adding a bit of experience in there and a proven winner could be a big help. They're looking really strong I think and look the most credible challengers to Liverpool and City right now, going forward they're going to be superb to watch from a neutral perspective.

Hoping Everton can start getting some moves finalised. Heavily rumoured to be close on Allan, James and Doucoure but won't believe anything until they sign. That midfield 3 would be lovely, looks a lot nicer on paper than Davies, Gomes and Sigurdsson anyway.


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## need_my_wedge (Aug 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			still happy to drive Luiz back for you 

tbh im more worried this time next year we'll be signing Thiago Silva off you lol
		
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This made me spit my coffee out 🤣🤣

I wish there were other emoji responses for threads, not just a thumbs up option. 

To be fair, I think Sideshow Bob does a job, and is being retained to help the likes of Martinelli and Gabriel when he shows up.


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## 4LEX (Aug 29, 2020)

Great to see Ed Woodward and Ole making more astute buys. Wasn't it Ole that said Coronavirus would be good for a club of Man Utd's size as they could take advantage of the financial struggles of others?!


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## USER1999 (Aug 29, 2020)

Trying to find the Community shield coverage without the stupid false stadium noise. Presently on Sky, it doesn't seem possible. Just another frustration. Why is the default not the real stadium noise.


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## fundy (Aug 29, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Trying to find the Community shield coverage without the stupid false stadium noise. Presently on Sky, it doesn't seem possible. Just another frustration. Why is the default not the real stadium noise.
		
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More silverware  

cracking goal and some good pens, cant be unhappy


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## USER1999 (Aug 29, 2020)

Happy as. It's a meaningless trophy, but given there is one, I wanted Arsenal to win it.


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## MegaSteve (Aug 29, 2020)

Happy to be embracing whatever background noise comes with the feed...


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 29, 2020)

Call me cynical but how come the Community Shield is now rated as silverware. Go back to the start of the 2000's perhaps even more recently wasn't it always seen as a glorified friendly to start the season and raise cash for the FA's chosen charities.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Call me cynical but how come the Community Shield is now rated as silverware. Go back to the start of the 2000's perhaps even more recently wasn't it always seen as a glorified friendly to start the season and raise cash for the FA's chosen charities.
		
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I'm not sure anyone rates it as sioverwear other than the media pushing it when they broadcast it.


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## Fish (Aug 29, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not sure anyone rates it as sioverwear other than the media pushing it when they broadcast it.
		
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Never seen players kissing it before 😳


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2020)

Fish said:



			Never seen players kissing it before 😳
		
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True 

But it's comparable to the league Cup imo. Those in it think it's more important than those that aren't.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 29, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			True

But it's comparable to the league Cup imo. Those in it think it's more important than those that aren't.
		
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But doesn't the league cup also guarantee a Europa spot?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But doesn't the league cup also guarantee a Europa spot?
		
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Yes, but the bug clubs still treat it with disdain until they reach the semis.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 29, 2020)

Allan is close. Fee in the region of £25m. Of all the rumored players we have been supposedly in for, he's the one I wanted most and the sort of midfield player we've been desperate for since selling Idrissa. So happy with that signing.


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## Orikoru (Aug 29, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			True

But it's comparable to the league Cup imo. Those in it think it's more important than those that aren't.
		
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The League Cup is a trophy, just a low priority one. The charity shield is a pointless friendly that acts a curtain-raiser to the actual season.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			The League Cup is a trophy, just a low priority one. The charity shield is a pointless friendly that acts a curtain-raiser to the actual season.
		
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Tbf the teams competiting in it have likely played stronger line ups more frequently to reach it than those in a league Cup final.... 

I do accept that one's a proper trophy. But I disagree that top teams respect it until the finals.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 30, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Call me cynical but how come the Community Shield is now rated as silverware. Go back to the start of the 2000's perhaps even more recently wasn't it always seen as a glorified friendly to start the season and raise cash for the FA's chosen charities.
		
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To be fair I want to win any game so trophy or not it’s a game we wanted to win.
Well done to Arsenal.
Some great penalty’s and one bad one.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 31, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			To be fair I want to win any game so trophy or not it’s a game we wanted to win.
Well done to Arsenal.
Some great penalty’s and one bad one.
		
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Agreed. 

The other point, which I definitely understand, is it's a trophy you only get a chance of winning if you win something else - one of the 2 top trophies in the country. After we won the CL, did I want to win the Super Cup? Yes. Did I want to win the Club World Cup? yes. 

Yes, it's a glorified pre-season friendly. But it also only ever seems to supporters to teams that don't (often) get near it that talk it down. And given our haul of 1 league title and 2 FA Cups in the last 30 years, I very much include myself in that previous sentence! It's a bit like any trophy isn't it - Do you want to win it? Yes. Do you care who wins it if its not your team? no, not really.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Yes, but the bug clubs still treat it with disdain until they reach the semis.
		
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Good Job Citeh are Liddel 😁. Under Pep there all silverware. Even the Charity shield. 😁


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2020)

Anyone else seeing the figures regarding Messi and finding them beyond bonkers? Even for City the numbers must seem terrifying. I'd love to see him in the PL but not at the numbers being quoted. 

How about it @Tashboy does it sit right? Can one player be paid 3 x the amount of KDB? Never mind the transfer fee.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Anyone else seeing the figures regarding Messi and finding them beyond bonkers? Even for City the numbers must seem terrifying. I'd love to see him in the PL but not at the numbers being quoted.

How about it @Tashboy does it sit right? Can one player be paid 3 x the amount of KDB? Never mind the transfer fee.
		
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I would rather have KDB for a third of the price.


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Anyone else seeing the figures regarding Messi and finding them beyond bonkers? Even for City the numbers must seem terrifying. I'd love to see him in the PL but not at the numbers being quoted.

How about it @Tashboy does it sit right? Can one player be paid 3 x the amount of KDB? Never mind the transfer fee.
		
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ludicrous figures for anyone, let alone whilst revenues down due to a pandemic and the fact that hes well into his 30s. obvious theres a huge commercial earning if he does sign but surely cant negate more than a fraction of the cost. i guess if you are going to pay it then pay it for the very best and would be great to see him in the premiership, still wont have spent as much as chelsea in the window


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## Tashyboy (Aug 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Anyone else seeing the figures regarding Messi and finding them beyond bonkers? Even for City the numbers must seem terrifying. I'd love to see him in the PL but not at the numbers being quoted.

How about it @Tashboy does it sit right? Can one player be paid 3 x the amount of KDB? Never mind the transfer fee.
		
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heyup LT, hope alls well.

Re Messi, flippin eck where do you start.  Re figures, am not sure anyone knows exactly what the true cost of Messi would be to City. Read a piece that City would be able to renegotiate sponsor deals as everyone would want Messi under there sponsorship name. Don’t know how much there is in that. Maybe a few brown envelopes from the Middle East might cover it. Am positive that UEFA are watching with great interest. As much as I would want him at City, priority is defence. That said most Ciy fans have been bogged off for years with not taking those chances and putting games to bed. Am not talking Watford ( no disrespect to them), more along the lines of the Lyon game.  Could Messi be that clinical finisher.
Read another piece that said could Messi be a modern day Rodney Marsh signing.
Me I will believe it when it happens. Ave picked a good year to pack in with the season ticket 🤔😳😖


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## Dan2501 (Sep 2, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301143771485270016
Well this is the best, most random bit of football content I've seen in a while. WWE star Triple H calling on Declan Rice to stay at West Ham. Love it.


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## 4LEX (Sep 2, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			heyup LT, hope alls well.

Re Messi, flippin eck where do you start.  Re figures, am not sure anyone knows exactly what the true cost of Messi would be to City. Read a piece that City would be able to renegotiate sponsor deals as everyone would want Messi under there sponsorship name. Don’t know how much there is in that. Maybe a few brown envelopes from the Middle East might cover it. Am positive that UEFA are watching with great interest. As much as I would want him at City, priority is defence. That said most Ciy fans have been bogged off for years with not taking those chances and putting games to bed. Am not talking Watford ( no disrespect to them), more along the lines of the Lyon game.  Could Messi be that clinical finisher.
Read another piece that said could Messi be a modern day Rodney Marsh signing.
Me I will believe it when it happens. Ave picked a good year to pack in with the season ticket 🤔😳😖
		
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Pep will never sort the defence out! Attack is the only form of defence in his eyes. He views fullbacks as wingers or inside midfielders. It's Messi or no title I think. He's exactly what City need too. He can play on the right and create/score, he can drop deep or he can play as the main striker and move around.

FFP is dead now, look at Chelsea. Go and spent £500m on Messi, I really want to see him in England. Lucky enough to see him in person a fair few times and he's the only player that I spent most of the game shaking my head in amazement at. He will make David Silva look like Steve Lomas!


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## Papas1982 (Sep 2, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Pep will never sort the defence out! Attack is the only form of defence in his eyes. He views fullbacks as wingers or inside midfielders. It's Messi or no title I think. He's exactly what City need too. He can play on the right and create/score, he can drop deep or he can play as the main striker and move around.

*FFP is dead now, look at Chelsea.* Go and spent £500m on Messi, I really want to see him in England. Lucky enough to see him in person a fair no few times and he's the only player that I spent most of the game shaking my head in amazement at. He will make David Silva look like Steve Lomas!
		
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What about Chelsea? Wasn't their ban for deals with youngsters? 
So they now have two transfer windows worth of funds to spend having sold Hazard for 100m


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## 4LEX (Sep 2, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			What about Chelsea? Wasn't their ban for deals with youngsters?
So they now have two transfer windows worth of funds to spend having sold Hazard for 100m
		
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Well Chelsea, PSG and City are the main clubs that have benefitted from outside investment over the years. Chelsea also wasted a lot of money on rubbish like Drinkwater, Bakayoko and Kepa. That's £150m alone there so you can offset monies received from the likes of Hazard to a degree.

Now is a great time to bulk buy young or peak players and ignore FFP as City have shown it to be worthless. Personally think it's great to see Chelsea spending and Werner especially will be a huge star.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 2, 2020)

Chelsea spent bug prior to ffp being a thing. 
Since its inception I really don't think it's been a factor hence me querying your op. 

In the last 5 years I reckon they've spent similarly to other clubs. Yes they improved due to the money. But they're there now, and imo don't continue due to any further help from outside pl finances.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 2, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301210289283780610
Fee agreed for Doucoure. Allan and James on the brink of being announced. Building some midfield.

Donny van de Beek is a United player too. Teams starting to make moves now.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 2, 2020)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301210289283780610
Fee agreed for Doucoure. Allan and James on the brink of being announced. Building some midfield.

Donny van de Beek is a United player too. Teams starting to make moves now.
		
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I wish mine would. We've got enough for a 5 a side.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 2, 2020)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301210289283780610
Fee agreed for Doucoure. Allan and James on the brink of being announced. Building some midfield.

Donny van de Beek is a United player too. Teams starting to make moves now.
		
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Fancy a manager spotting a weakness and actually buying appropriate players to deal with it. It will never catch on 😄.

Happy so far. We just need to move a useless ones on still.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 2, 2020)

Think United have done well with Van Den Beek. 

Gareth Bale on Sky Sports News moaning that Real are refusing to let him go (again). Think he only played around 16 times last season (doubt he started many) and at 31 time isn't on his side to come back and make a lasting impression. Can see him idling the rest of his contract away playing little. Can't help him or Wales


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## Dan2501 (Sep 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fancy a manager spotting a weakness and actually buying appropriate players to deal with it. It will never catch on 😄.

Happy so far. We just need to move a useless ones on still.
		
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Good isn't it. Ancelotti has obviously given Brands an area of importance he wanted to improve and Brands has gone out and got the guys Carlo wanted. Some real quality added to the squad with those 3.

I'm just curious how we're going to line-up tactically. Surely not sticking with the 4-4-2 now. To me, the logical tactic would be a 4-3-1-2 with a midfield 3 of Allan, Doucoure and Gomes with James free to roam and create in front of them with DCL and Richarlison up top. Get width from the wing-backs and with the strikers free to go out wide if need be (especially Richy). Seems to me that's how we'll go unless Carlo's thinking he can use James out wide on the right with Bernard, Iwobi or Walcott out left and stick with the 4-4-2. Who knows, well, hopefully Carlo does . Excited to see what happens the rest of the window, plenty of rumours floating around about a new RB (Arias strongly rumoured) and a new CB so we'll see what happens.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 2, 2020)

I listen to Tim Vickery the South American expert and he’s very knowledgeable of SA players.

I’m not sure Allan with last once the boo boys get back in the stands.

James has had a very poor last few seasons and has barely played any football, imo it’s a very risky signing.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 3, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Good isn't it. Ancelotti has obviously given Brands an area of importance he wanted to improve and Brands has gone out and got the guys Carlo wanted. Some real quality added to the squad with those 3.

I'm just curious how we're going to line-up tactically. Surely not sticking with the 4-4-2 now. To me, the logical tactic would be a 4-3-1-2 with a midfield 3 of Allan, Doucoure and Gomes with James free to roam and create in front of them with DCL and Richarlison up top. Get width from the wing-backs and with the strikers free to go out wide if need be (especially Richy). Seems to me that's how we'll go unless Carlo's thinking he can use James out wide on the right with Bernard, Iwobi or Walcott out left and stick with the 4-4-2. Who knows, well, hopefully Carlo does . Excited to see what happens the rest of the window, plenty of rumours floating around about a new RB (Arias strongly rumoured) and a new CB so we'll see what happens.
		
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Interesting times indeed. Not sure I see the need for another CB, why block Holgate, Keane is now solid, Mina can rotate in. Add in the young lad from Carlisle who we can blood this year, save our money there. RB, we need a challenge for Seamus but does Kenny not fit that role? This is the year he either breaks through or we sell him on as not good enough.

Rumours are picking up about the utd spare keeper, Romero. I would happily take him and focus the mind of Pickford. 

The thought of Iwobi or Walcott starting games sends shudders through me. They are bench players at best. That right side is the weak spot for me, unless as you say, he plays Rodriguez out there cutting in.

Going in the right direction 👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I listen to Tim Vickery the South American expert and he’s very knowledgeable of SA players.

James has had a very poor last few seasons and has barely played any football, imo it’s a very risky signing.
		
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James could undoubtedly be made of glass, his legs may have gone. To counter that, Ancelotti has worked with him twice and so knows what he is getting. He know the budget is limited, wage bill needs to be reduced, and yet still wants to take him. We have to trust the manger, if you don't then he is not the right manager.

We will only know the answer to this one come next May. Whatever, it can not be worse than setting fire to £40m, plus wages, on Iwobi last summer


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## Dan2501 (Sep 3, 2020)

James barely played last year which is worrying, and seems to have fairly regular calf and knee problems but if we can get him on the pitch consistently he could be a real asset. The season he played at Bayern he bagged 7 goals and 4 assists in 20 games which is a very tidy return, and last season was his only blank season in terms of a return in goals/assists since he moved to Real. Also when he does play he has excellent xGA (expected goals/assists) and his expected assists are up there with anyone in Europe - last 3 seasons has an xA of 0.41, 0.37 and 0.39 per 90 mins, which in comparison to what we already have, Walcott is our highest with an xA of 0.2 with Digne following at 0.17. He's also much more progressive with his passing than what we have at the club already - our midfield 3 last season completed 5 (Davies), 4.93 (Sigurdsson) and 4.88 (Gomes) progressive passes per game; Rodriguez completed 9 and 10.9 per game in his last 2 completed seasons. So get him on the pitch and he's going to be a massive improvement on what we've already got and help bring some real creativity to our attacks which we sorely missed last season. Credit to this Reddit user for the stats 

As for Allan, I can't see the "boo boys" getting on his back. He's our proper Gueye replacement, a tenacious tackler and ball winner. Goodison loved Gueye and they'll love Allan, especially when he starts clattering people in the derby.


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## Orikoru (Sep 3, 2020)

Did Everton really need an entirely new midfield though? How is Doucoure, Allan, Davies, Gomes, Delph, Sigurdsson and James R all going to work? With no wingers as suggested above? Is somebody leaving? 

I can only speak from Football Manager experience but whenever you try and sign James he wants 300 grand a week.   I imagine he has slightly softer demands in real life if he's going to Everton, but it still won't be cheap. I think it's a big gamble.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 3, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Did Everton really need an entirely new midfield though? How is Doucoure, Allan, Davies, Gomes, Delph, Sigurdsson and James R all going to work? With no wingers as suggested above? Is somebody leaving?.
		
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Question 1: YES. Absolutely YES we did. Post-lockdown our midfield were absolutely shocking. Carlo realised that and has begun a massive, much needed overhaul.

How will they work? I think if we play a 4-3-1-2 then we're going to need plenty of back-up so don't think we necessarily need to sell. Delph will probably also stay as he can back Digne up at LB seeing as Baines has retired. I could potentially see Sigurdsson leave, or Davies go out on loan but don't think there's a major need to sell but it depends on the formation Carlo's looking to play. If he's sticking with 4-4-2 then I guess guys will have to leave.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2020)

Rumours of soucek having to isolate after coming into contact with someone who's tested positive for covid on international duty 

Should we really be having international games right now?


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## larmen (Sep 3, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Should we really be having international games right now?
		
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No. Germany is playing Spain right now. Didn’t the whole thing ‘start’ here because Barca or Real were playing in Manchester? Spain is a quarantine country as well.
Sweden will host France this match day, I guess they might be unhappy too. 
I know there are no fans and footballers are tested, but travel from high risk countries should probably be avoided.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 3, 2020)

Always thought this Euro Nations was a mickey mouse idea and hasn't done anything to improve standards compared to friendlies. Sack it all off until we get Covid under control. Not overly convinced about any of the European club comps given the travel and some areas being more susceptible than others


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## Orikoru (Sep 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Always thought this Euro Nations was a mickey mouse idea and hasn't done anything to improve standards compared to friendlies. Sack it all off until we get Covid under control. Not overly convinced about any of the European club comps given the travel and some areas being more susceptible than others
		
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Agreed. Nobody cares about the Nations League, they could have quite easily binned it to prevent unnecessary travel. It's ridiculous that it's happening really.


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## Kellfire (Sep 4, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Agreed. Nobody cares about the Nations League, they could have quite easily binned it to prevent unnecessary travel. It's ridiculous that it's happening really.
		
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Small countries are relying on the money to prop up their local football. Without it, many domestic leagues would go to the wall.


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## davemc1 (Sep 4, 2020)

Chelsea spending big again. COVID clearly having no economic effects in West London. 

It’s exciting times buying new players. I can’t deny it’s a little frustrating the reds not joining in. Still time yet, 1 established player to come in and freshen things up a must for me. Also CB cover needed


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## pauljames87 (Sep 4, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Chelsea spending big again. COVID clearly having no economic effects in West London. 

It’s exciting times buying new players. I can’t deny it’s a little frustrating the reds not joining in. Still time yet, 1 established player to come in and freshen things up a must for me. Also CB cover needed
		
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How many windows were they banned from buying? Sold hazard and morata during that time 

Allow 50 million a window say... Plus the £200 incomes from sellings

They have serious cash to spend


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## davemc1 (Sep 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			How many windows were they banned from buying? Sold hazard and morata during that time 

Allow 50 million a window say... Plus the £200 incomes from sellings

They have serious cash to spend[/

1 I think, only last summer wasn’t it?
		
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## Fish (Sep 5, 2020)

It was, and we chose not to panic buy in the first window we were able to, so we’re doing all our good business now.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 5, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Chelsea spending big again. COVID clearly having no economic effects in West London.

It’s exciting times buying new players. I can’t deny it’s a little frustrating the reds not joining in. Still time yet, 1 established player to come in and freshen things up a must for me. Also CB cover needed
		
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Skint aren’t you? 🤷‍♂️


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			It was, and we chose not to panic buy in the first window we were able to, so we’re doing all our good business now.
		
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Some exciting signings 😊


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			It was, and we chose not to panic buy in the first window we were able to, so we’re doing all our good business now.
		
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Think Lampard and the hierarchy have done some excellent business. Just need to get them to gel and play as a unit from the start. I think they could be a real challenge to Liverpool and City


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## Tashyboy (Sep 5, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think Lampard and the hierarchy have done some excellent business. Just need to get them to gel and play as a unit from the start. I think they could be a real challenge to Liverpool and City
		
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Perish the thought a club should buy the title 🤔😉


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 5, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Perish the thought a club should buy the title 🤔😉
		
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I know. Who'd think such a thing


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## Kellfire (Sep 7, 2020)

Foden and Greenwood. Face palm.


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## Kellfire (Sep 7, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302855202089971713
Why Liverpool aren’t spending big?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 7, 2020)

Kellfire said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302855202089971713
Why Liverpool aren’t spending big?
		
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Maybe they don't need to. It isn't compulsory.

Strong team, youngsters coming through.

On another note, Callum Wilson to Newcastle for £20m. If he stays fit that looks a good buy for them. Finally a striker in the team after playing a full season without one


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## Orikoru (Sep 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Maybe they don't need to. It isn't compulsory.

Strong team, youngsters coming through.

On another note, Callum Wilson to Newcastle for £20m. If he stays fit that looks a good buy for them. Finally a striker in the team after playing a full season without one 

Click to expand...

Not only him but Ryan Fraser, plus Jamal Lewis from Norwich, a good young left back. Unlike Newcastle to strengthen so wisely!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not only him but Ryan Fraser, plus Jamal Lewis from Norwich, a good young left back. Unlike Newcastle to strengthen so wisely! 

Click to expand...

I know, my son is feeling very unnerved by it . The defence is pretty sound but they lacked a LB, midfield bodies and a striker. They have done well so far, they also picked up Hendrick from Burnley on a free which is a good signing for them. They are only aiming for mid table so this should give them enough.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 7, 2020)

I really don’t see what the fuss is about Wilson. Granted 20m is peanuts nowadays. But with last aside from one good season, he averages 7 goals in the league Each season. Be that form or injury. Last season he actually played lots for a team imo far More creative than Newcastle.


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## Orikoru (Sep 7, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I really don’t see what the fuss is about Wilson. Granted 20m is peanuts nowadays. But with last aside from one good season, he averages 7 goals in the league Each season. Be that form or injury. Last season he actually played lots for a team imo far More creative than Newcastle.
		
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Last season Bournemouth were shocking, season before that he managed 16 goals. Yeah he's had injury problems. I think Newcastle is about his level (where Bournemouth were before last season). He's better than Joelinton so that makes him a good signing.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Last season Bournemouth were shocking, season before that he managed 16 goals. Yeah he's had injury problems. I think Newcastle is about his level (where Bournemouth were before last season). He's better than Joelinton so that makes him a good signing.
		
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Bmouth were the same as always really. Kamikaze defending and creative, imo it could be argued he contributed to their downfall as his goal returns halved.....

Obv he’s better than what they have, and at 20m it’s a snip, but I’ll be surprised if he gets 15 goals again.


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## Orikoru (Sep 7, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Bmouth we’re the same as always really. Kamikaze defending and creative, imo it could be argued he contributed to their downfall as his goal returns halved.....

Obv he’s better than what they have, and at 20m it’s a snip, but I’ll be surprised if he gets 15 goals again.
		
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I think he could do. They've confirmed Ryan Fraser as well now. Remember those two linking up well before Fraser jacked it in.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 7, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Bmouth were the same as always really. Kamikaze defending and creative, imo it could be argued he contributed to their downfall as his goal returns halved.....

Obv he’s better than what they have, and at 20m it’s a snip, but I’ll be surprised if he gets 15 goals again.
		
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Top scorer for Newcastle last season,  Almiron with 8 😱. Joelinton scored 4. If he gets into double figures he will have improved the team. His movement should also help them and create space for Almiron and St Maximim.

If he can stay fit he will improve them but I accept that is not saying much 😆


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 7, 2020)

How stupid are footballers. Especially those finally getting their chance in the England team 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54059328

I wonder what stance Southgate will take and will he leave them out of the next squads


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## larmen (Sep 7, 2020)

7 PSG players including Neymar and Mbappé have been tested positive after holidays in Ibiza.
Mbappé did play for France this week. This will be going around a little, maybe the nations league might not be a good idea.

And the Czech Republic had to send home all players and called up a fresh squad for the next game.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 7, 2020)

This looks like an interesting signing for Everton. James Rodriguez for £20 million seems like a punt worth taking.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53992937


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## hairball_89 (Sep 7, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			This looks like an interesting signing for Everton. James Rodriguez for £20 million seems like a punt worth taking.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53992937

Click to expand...

Is he really though? Since he burst on the scene at the world cup, 2014? He's done very very little of note. Unsuccessful loans, and little interest from managers to play him. 

But "big name player, past his best and looking for final pay day" sounds like a standard Everton signing!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 7, 2020)

Breaking News:
Red Nose doesn’t rate Everton’s transfer dealings.

Rent free.

In other News: The Pope’s a catholic.


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## Orikoru (Sep 8, 2020)

larmen said:



			And the Czech Republic had to send home all players and called up a fresh squad for the next game.
		
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And Scotland still only just scraped the win.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 8, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Is he really though? Since he burst on the scene at the world cup, 2014? He's done very very little of note. Unsuccessful loans, and little interest from managers to play him.

But "big name player, past his best and looking for final pay day" sounds like a standard Everton signing!
		
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Little of note? He had a quiet season last season due to injuries, but before that 13 goal contributions in 28 for Bayern, 22 in 39 season before that, 23 in 33 in 16/17, 18 in 32 in 15/16.

To go along with is on-field numbers he's also been in the La Liga team of the season in 14/15, UEFA team of the year 2015, CL and Bundesliga squads of the season 17/18, Copa America Team of the Tournament in 2019. Also won 2 La Ligas, 2 Bundesligas, 2 Champions Leagues, but you're right, he's done basically nothing.

Also, a "final pay day"? He only turned 29 2 months ago, hardly like he's on his last legs and close to retirement.

I'm an Everton fan so bound to be feeling optimistic about the signing, but I do genuinely think if we can get James on the pitch and keep him fit he's going to make us a significantly more creative and better team. If Carlo rates him enough to bring him to Everton, then I'm on board.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2020)

Feel better now Dan? 😆

The smart move is that, according to the press, he is on a 2yr deal with an option for a 3rd. If his legs have gone or he is permanently injured then we are not tied into a 4yr deal then hamstrings the club financially. 

I'm going to guess that 75% of shirts sold will have his name on the back. Fans are excited by this one.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 8, 2020)

I am curious what his wages are. But as its only a 2 year deal it's not so bad. 

I'll be taking a punt on him for dreamteam as I think he's gonna be on set peice duty.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I am curious what his wages are. But as its only a 2 year deal it's not so bad.

I'll be taking a punt on him for dreamteam as I think he's gonna be on set peice duty.
		
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According to Marca he is on £77k per week, an odd figure but that is what they wrote. Quite possibly with big bonuses written in but if he gets them then it is because he is working for us so that is okay. 

£20m to buy, approx £4m a year in wages, £32m over 3 years if he stays that long. That is worth the risk for someone of his quality. 

It has also been pointed out that commercially he and Richarlison are opening up chunks of Latin America to the club so that will help to repay some of the outlay.

Bear in mind the money we have blown on average or below average players in recent years, I'm pretty relaxed about this one.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It has also been pointed out that commercially he and Richarlison are opening up chunks of Latin America to the club so that will help to repay some of the outlay.
		
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Yep, James is hugely popular in Colombia and one of the most followed athletes in the world on social media, should be huge commercially. Plus we've also got Big Yerry, Bernard and Allan, building a decent South American core.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2020)

I cant think of a 29yr old top player costing £20m+ who only signed a 2yr  deal.....

On paper he looks a great signing, unfortunately footballs not played on paper. His lack of minutes in the last few seasons are worrying but if Ancellotti can get a tune out of him then its upto the player himself. 

I played golf with a blue mate on sunday and he's buzzing at the Doucoure signing more than this one. His actual words were " I'm made up we've signed a CM who can run"!!


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Yep, James is hugely popular in Colombia and one of the most followed athletes in the world on social media, should be huge commercially. Plus we've also got Big Yerry, Bernard and Allan, building a decent South American core.
		
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Do you get a trophy for having the most Instagram followers....😂😂

Transfer window winners 2018
Instagram followers winner 2020

The glory days are back at Goodison😉


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I cant think of a 29yr old top player costing £20m+ who only signed a 2yr  deal.....

On paper he looks a great signing, unfortunately footballs not played on paper. His lack of minutes in the last few seasons are worrying but if Ancellotti can get a tune out of him then its upto the player himself.

I played golf with a blue mate on sunday and he's buzzing at the Doucoure signing more than this one. His actual words were " I'm made up we've signed a CM who can run"!!
		
Click to expand...

Rent free😂😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2020)

Good to see the reds are discussing themselves again......oh no wait


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Good to see the reds are discussing themselves again......oh no wait

Click to expand...

We havent got no money, I seen klopp on breck road in cash converters pleading with the guy to part ex Karius 🤷‍♂️

Are we not allowed to discuss the topics or is it just discuss your own team?? If it's the latter a few will be disappear, they only like to talk about us 🤭😉


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			We havent got no money, I seen klopp on breck road in cash converters pleading with the guy to part ex Karius 🤷‍♂️

Are we not allowed to discuss the topics or is it just discuss your own team?? If it's the latter a few will be disappear, they only like to talk about us 🤭😉
		
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Except for those reds who don’t discuss and just pontificate
They must be the out of towners.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I cant think of a 29yr old top player costing £20m+ who only signed a 2yr  deal.....

On paper he looks a great signing, unfortunately footballs not played on paper. His lack of minutes in the last few seasons are worrying but if Ancellotti can get a tune out of him then its upto the player himself.

I played golf with a blue mate on sunday and he's buzzing at the Doucoure signing more than this one. His actual words were " I'm made up we've signed a CM who can run"!!
		
Click to expand...

Your mate is pretty much right. Doucoure should be the engine we have lacked but Rodriguez is the glamour that should unlock teams. We haven't replaced Gueye up to this point, ideally Doucoure and Allan will do that and more.

You can't blame the press and fans focusing on the Rodriguez signing as that is the sexy one.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Yep, James is hugely popular in Colombia and one of the most followed athletes in the world on social media, should be huge commercially. Plus we've also got Big Yerry, Bernard and Allan, building a decent South American core.
		
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And Richie mate.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Your mate is pretty much right. Doucoure should be the engine we have lacked but Rodriguez is the glamour that should unlock teams. We haven't replaced Gueye up to this point, ideally Doucoure and Allan will do that and more.

You can't blame the press and fans focusing on the Rodriguez signing as that is the sexy one.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1303149610219778055


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Except for those reds who don’t discuss and just pontificate
*They must be the out of towners*.

Click to expand...

Arent we all?  That Norway Blues flag that hangs proudly in the park end must be planted by a kopite 😉😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Arent we all?  That Norway Blues flag that gamgs proudly in the park end must be planted by a kopite 😉😂
		
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At least you know were Anfield is.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			At least you know were Anfield is.

Click to expand...

According to your lot we dont go 🤷‍♂️😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			According to your lot we dont go 🤷‍♂️😂
		
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3 of you do. 😂😂 Well 2 and Davie lar
Proper fans and respected.


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## Piece (Sep 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Your mate is pretty much right. Doucoure should be the engine we have lacked but Rodriguez is the glamour that should unlock teams. We haven't replaced Gueye up to this point, ideally Doucoure and Allan will do that and more.

You can't blame the press and fans focusing on the Rodriguez signing as that is the sexy one.
		
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Everton better hope they get the Doucoure of the first two years at Watford and not the last two years! Brilliant engine and had a chant initially that had the words, "Never gives the ball away", in. Didn't sing that for the last 18 months!


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2020)

Piece said:



			Everton better hope they get the Doucoure of the first two years at Watford and not the last two years! Brilliant engine and had a chant initially that had the words, "Never gives the ball away", in. Didn't sing that for the last 18 months!
		
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I'm hoping for the latter🤭


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## Piece (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm hoping for the latter🤭
		
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. PSG were interested years ago. Lately, it's more like BnQ.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm hoping for the latter🤭
		
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Rent free


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2020)

Piece said:



. PSG were interested years ago. Lately, it's more like BnQ. 

Click to expand...

😂😂😂 honestly it wouldnt surprise me if Everton turn him into George Weahs cousin, it's what they do 😂


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## Dan2501 (Sep 8, 2020)

Piece said:



			Everton better hope they get the Doucoure of the first two years at Watford and not the last two years! Brilliant engine and had a chant initially that had the words, "Never gives the ball away", in. Didn't sing that for the last 18 months!
		
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Has his role changed at Watford since his first season? Not seen a huge amount of him, but looking at the stats his defensive stats look really good in his first season but did basically nothing going forward whereas in the last couple of years his goals/assists/chances created have all gone up with his defensive success dropping.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2020)

Piece said:



			Everton better hope they get the Doucoure of the first two years at Watford and not the last two years! Brilliant engine and had a chant initially that had the words, "Never gives the ball away", in. Didn't sing that for the last 18 months!
		
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Southampton fans on here were saying the same about Mane when he went to Liverpool. I get your point, only time will tell.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I cant think of a 29yr old top player costing £20m+ who only signed a 2yr  deal.....

On paper he looks a great signing, unfortunately footballs not played on paper. His lack of minutes in the last few seasons are worrying but if Ancellotti can get a tune out of him then its upto the player himself.

I played golf with a blue mate on sunday and he's buzzing at the Doucoure signing more than this one. His actual words were " I'm made up we've signed a CM who can run"!!
		
Click to expand...

Agreed on Doucoure, I always thought if we sell Gini, he would be the one I would go for, or to replace Millie. Good player.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm hoping for the latter🤭
		
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Hes got to get it first.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Southampton fans on here were saying the same about Mane when he went to Liverpool. I get your point, only time will tell.
		
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tbh it was me that said it.
They needed the Mane that turned up for TV and played well to earn his move (Which they got). He also left us after another stellar season.

I’m not sure the same is quite true of Doucoure, or that the step up is quite as big. That said, at 20m it’s another transfer with very little pressure on it imo


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## Papas1982 (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂😂 honestly it wouldnt surprise me if Everton turn him into* George Weahs* cousin, it's what they do 😂
		
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Tbf he was great in training according to Souness........


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## Orikoru (Sep 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf he was great in training according to Souness........
		
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Not according to Matt Le Tissier though.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not according to Matt Le Tissier though.
		
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Obviously he was useless  

Souness got his fingers burnt and try to blag it. Having been at the game, there’s no way he made it through a training session and still got picked!


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## Piece (Sep 8, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Has his role changed at Watford since his first season? Not seen a huge amount of him, but looking at the stats his defensive stats look really good in his first season but did basically nothing going forward whereas in the last couple of years his goals/assists/chances created have all gone up with his defensive success dropping.
		
Click to expand...

He was very good in the CDM position initially. Broke play up and off-loaded to other, better ball players. Very good box to box, bursting forward, arriving last minute to get on the end of things. Then was moved forward and asked to do "things with the ball". That's where he looked a bit lost, made poor decisions and gave the ball away cheaply. Became ineffective. If he plays more defensively then you'll see the best of him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2020)

Piece said:



			He was very good in the CDM position initially. Broke play up and off-loaded to other, better ball players. Very good box to box, bursting forward, arriving last minute to get on the end of things. Then was moved forward and asked to do "things with the ball". That's where he looked a bit lost, made poor decisions and gave the ball away cheaply. Became ineffective. If he plays more defensively then you'll see the best of him.
		
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We have players like Richarlison, Bernard, Rodriguez, Gomes who can do the clever stuff. We need the likes of the Doucoure you describe initially to break up play, win the ball and give it to them. We then need him to burst through and occasionally get on the end of said clever stuff. I'm hoping Carlo gives him a very simple brief, win it, give it, follow it. If he does then we should see the best of him and it will suit the team nicely.


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## Orikoru (Sep 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Obviously he was useless 

Souness got his fingers burnt and try to blag it. Having been at the game, there’s no way he made it through a training session and still got picked!
		
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Le Tiss' take on it (if you haven't heard it) is that the guy turned up to training and the other players thought he was a competition winner or something. Had no touch or awareness at all. But they had so many injuries that they had no choice but to stick him on the bench anyway, and then it was Le Tiss himself who pulled up with a hammy, so the feller came on for him. Then when they realised how trash he was, he was subbed off again for someone else.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Le Tiss' take on it (if you haven't heard it) is that the guy turned up to training and the other players thought he was a competition winner or something. Had no touch or awareness at all. But they had so many injuries that they had no choice but to stick him on the bench anyway, and then it was Le Tiss himself who pulled up with a hammy, so the feller came on for him. Then when they realised how trash he was, he was subbed off again for someone else.
		
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Yeah. 

Heard it all. Including the phone call coming from uncle weah to arrange the trial 😂😂

Was a complete shambles. Can still recall him popping a shot out for a throw in when through!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 8, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1303385128404758530
Doucoure official. Central midfield rebuild complete.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 8, 2020)

Lol grealish must wish he had kept his ireland shirt .. two players sent home and he still can't get a start


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## Papas1982 (Sep 8, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Lol grealish must wish he had kept his ireland shirt .. two players sent home and he still can't get a start
		
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He doesn’t start in cm though really does he. Not in a 4 3 3 anyways.


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Lol grealish must wish he had kept his ireland shirt .. two players sent home and he still can't get a start
		
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pretty horrid looking line up!


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## pauljames87 (Sep 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			He doesn’t start in cm though really does he. Not in a 4 3 3 anyways.
		
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We know exactly what sterling is about tho don't we, could have played him


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## Papas1982 (Sep 8, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			We know exactly what sterling is about tho don't we, could have played him
		
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yeah maybe. 

I did think there would be more rotation tbh. Giving a few of the guys playing at weekend a break.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 8, 2020)

May have missed this earlier in the thread, but all PL games in September to be televised


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## pendodave (Sep 8, 2020)

Eric Dier ??????
Maybe more went on in Iceland than we know about...
Hopefully the hjs curse is transferable and he is at least half decent, as it's nice to win.


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## Slime (Sep 8, 2020)

At last, Grealish is on.


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## Slime (Sep 8, 2020)

Ronaldo with two goals of real beauty, that's 101 international goals.
Incredible.


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2020)

Sounds like the premier league gonna be a 6 a side now anyway


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sounds like the premier league gonna be a 6 a side now anyway 

Click to expand...

I see your man blud/fam has left Famtv to go and live in America doing podcasts etc.

Saturday evenings just won’t be the same😊


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I see your man blud/fam has left Famtv to go and live in America doing podcasts etc.

Saturday evenings just won’t be the same😊
		
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haha youre actually the only one i know who watches so will have to take your word for it


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## Stuart_C (Sep 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			haha youre actually the only one i know who watches so will have to take your word for it 

Click to expand...

Watch it?? I subscribe so I dont miss it blud 😂😂

I love it, its comedy gold.


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## hairball_89 (Sep 9, 2020)

Slime said:



			Ronaldo with two goals of real beauty, that's 101 international goals.
Incredible.
		
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An absolute monster of a player and a human. I might have to swallow a hugely bitter pill and think about stopping calling the Brazilian Ronaldo the "real" Ronaldo soon! 

Cristiano has been simply sublime for as long as I can remember now! I've just checked to make sure, and the last time he scored less than 20 goals in a season was 2006. That's madness.


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## Orikoru (Sep 11, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			May have missed this earlier in the thread, but all PL games in September to be televised
		
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I had an email from Plusnet offering me BT Sports for a tenner a month this morning, couldn't resist. And in fact my mate said he'd go halves on it so he could watch the Roma Europa games, so win win. Can't wait to kick it off with Mitrovic bullying Arsenal defenders tomorrow.


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## fundy (Sep 12, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I had an email from Plusnet offering me BT Sports for a tenner a month this morning, couldn't resist. And in fact my mate said he'd go halves on it so he could watch the Roma Europa games, so win win. *Can't wait to kick it off with Mitrovic bullying Arsenal defenders tomorrow*. 

Click to expand...


hows that working out for you lol


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## fundy (Sep 12, 2020)

Arsenal top of the league, Arsenal Arsenal top of the league 

Enjoy it while we can, some goal finished off by Aubameyang that


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## User62651 (Sep 12, 2020)

Willian in blue looks very familiar, looks like he fits right in for Arsenal though, good signing, surprised Chelsea let him go, still quality.

I've had BT sport a few years, got a price hike notification this week. Guess with no gate money they're looking to make up costs from us.


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2020)

fundy said:



			hows that working out for you lol
		
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Would have helped if they actually played him wouldn't it. 🤦‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Would have helped if they actually played him wouldn't it. 🤦‍♂️
		
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If you guys don't make some signings soon could see arsenal rises above you again.


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			If you guys don't make some signings soon could see arsenal rises above you again.
		
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Because they beat Fulham?? Talk about kneejerk. 

Two years ago Fulham had one of the worst defences in Premier League history, and three of the back four today were still present from then!


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Because they beat Fulham?? Talk about kneejerk. 

Two years ago Fulham had one of the worst defences in Premier League history, and three of the back four today were still present from then!
		
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Not really ..I warned you about signing nobody before when you were decent lol look what happened!!!!

Arsenal look so much better under Mikel 

They also won the fa cup

Played well towards end of last season 

Cheslea signing every player in the world 

United looking back 

Everton sneaking some signings 

If you don't act fast you could fall out the top 6.. wolves are coming


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not really ..I warned you about signing nobody before when you were decent lol look what happened!!!!

Arsenal look so much better under Mikel

They also won the fa cup

Played well towards end of last season

Cheslea signing every player in the world

United looking back

Everton sneaking some signings

If you don't act fast you could fall out the top 6.. *wolves are coming*

Click to expand...

We took one of Wolves best players? Signed Hojbjerg as well, and a back-up goalie. Not sure how many signings you think we're going to make. Arsenal signed a centre back and Willian, so actually less signings than we've made. We're obviously not going to try and compete with Chelsea in the transfer market.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			We took one of Wolves best players? Signed Hojbjerg as well, and a back-up goalie. Not sure how many signings you think we're going to make. Arsenal signed a centre back and Willian, so actually less signings than we've made. We're obviously not going to try and compete with Chelsea in the transfer market.
		
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You need a back up striker for Kane that's a fact. A decent one 

Hart doesn't count 3rd choice 

Arsenal had more depth didn't need as much


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## Papas1982 (Sep 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



*You need a back up striker for Kane that's a fact*. A decent one

Hart doesn't count 3rd choice

Arsenal had more depth didn't need as much
		
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I don't agree, they have Son, who actually has a better record when he doesn't play with Kane.

They need more goals to come from the players in the middle of the park imo.


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			You need a back up striker for Kane that's a fact. A decent one

Hart doesn't count 3rd choice

Arsenal had more depth didn't need as much
		
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If the best we can get to come and sit on the bench is Troy Deeney, then no we don't!   I don't think Milik is going to happen. Ages back we were linked to Josh King, I wouldn't mind that.

We have a cracking young striker called Troy Parrott but we sent him on loan to Millwall, annoyingly. I would have been happy with him as our Kane back-up.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 12, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			If the best we can get to come and sit on the bench is Troy Deeney, then no we don't!   I don't think Milik is going to happen. Ages back we were linked to Josh King, I wouldn't mind that.

We have a cracking young striker called *Troy Parrott but we sent him on loan to Millwall*, annoyingly. I would have been happy with him as our Kane back-up.
		
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I think he will be better served having a full season of footy. Not sure he gains much with 10 minute cameos. Be interested to know if their is a clause to allow his return at short notice.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			If the best we can get to come and sit on the bench is Troy Deeney, then no we don't!   I don't think Milik is going to happen. Ages back we were linked to Josh King, I wouldn't mind that.

We have a cracking young striker called Troy Parrott but we sent him on loan to Millwall, annoyingly. I would have been happy with him as our Kane back-up.
		
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Parrott will learn more playing week in week out for Millwall 

Josh king would be a fantastic signing


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## Kellfire (Sep 12, 2020)

Josh King. Fantastic signing. Oh man. You can spot teams with low ambitions!


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## chrisd (Sep 12, 2020)

Eeeeeeeeeeeegles.  🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗


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## Papas1982 (Sep 12, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Josh King. Fantastic signing. Oh man. You can spot teams with low ambitions!
		
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We can't all dream of Haaland and sign Ighalo.......


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Josh King. Fantastic signing. Oh man. You can spot teams with low ambitions!
		
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As a back up to kane it would be a great signing.


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## Piece (Sep 12, 2020)

That’s a very tidy Leeds goal


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2020)

Great game 

Liverpool's defence tho..wow bad


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Great game

Liverpool's defence tho..wow bad
		
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Very funny though.

A bit miffed, we are going out tonight and I'll miss the rest of it. Some quality goals here.


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## davemc1 (Sep 12, 2020)

Crazy this.


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## Kellfire (Sep 12, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			We can't all dream of Haaland and sign Ighalo.......
		
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And he did so bad, didn’t he...


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## davemc1 (Sep 12, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Crazy this.
		
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Crazy that!


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## Papas1982 (Sep 12, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			And he did so bad, didn’t he... 

Click to expand...

Performances weren't the point you were making...  

Expectations (ambitions) were. If you're happy with Utd signing a player of his calibre then fair play to you. 

Then again, pretty sure you got rebuffed for Josh King too.....


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Performances weren't the point you were making...  

Expectations (ambitions) were. If you're happy with Utd signing a player of his calibre then fair play to you. 

Then again, pretty sure you got rebuffed for Josh King too.....
		
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Just don't like having to beg to have one of your own back that you let go ... Standard I guess for them


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2020)

That was a mad game.


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## Imurg (Sep 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That was a mad game.
		
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Is Liverpool's strategy to play the Brazil70  method..?
You know...we don't care how many you score coz we're gonna score 1 more..?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Is Liverpool's strategy to play the Brazil70  method..?
You know...we don't care how many you score coz we're gonna score 1 more..?

Click to expand...

I hope not, I dont think i could take that every week!!


2 rare mistakes from VVD, proves he's human afterall 🤷‍♂️


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## Papas1982 (Sep 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope not, I dont think i could take that every week!!


2 rare mistakes from VVD, proves he's human afterall 🤷‍♂️
		
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Last time I saw him do that, he was still. Being a "model professional" whilst hoping to go to you. 

I hope he hasn't been on a private jet to Barca recently 😉


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That was a mad game.
		
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Leeds had three shots on target.
We had so many chances to put that to bed it was hard to watch.
I am still convinced we need a goal scoring CF. Whoever it is would score 40+ goals in that team.
But well done to Leeds for having a go and not parking the bus.
Your right a very strange game.
Thought Jones made a big difference when he came on.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Last time I saw him do that, he was still. Being a "model professional" whilst hoping to go to you.

I hope he hasn't been on a private jet to Barca recently 😉
		
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They couldn't afford him😉


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2020)

See Moysie moaning about refs again, hopefully he takes them down  this season and then people will wake up and realise hes a blagger.


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			See Moysie moaning about refs again, hopefully he takes them down  this season and then people will wake up and realise hes a blagger.
		
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pretty sure Moyes isnt the problem there currently


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## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			See Moysie moaning about refs again, hopefully he takes them down  this season and then people will wake up and realise hes a blagger.
		
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Did u watch the game? Carroll hit two of our players with elbows within 20 mjns for no cards ....first one went to var which he was warned (1 min into game) typical Carroll go for heading leading with elbow 

Did same again then nothing was done 

Neither of the hand balls were enough for me so no complaints 

Just the elbows took the Mick ..considering yarmenlko gets a yellow for a coming together of ankles .. just because it's like in the 75th min not the 1st ..


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Did u watch the game? Carroll hit two of our players with elbows within 20 mjns for no cards ....first one went to var which he was warned (1 min into game) typical Carroll go for heading leading with elbow

Did same again then nothing was done

Neither of the hand balls were enough for me so no complaints

Just the elbows took the Mick ..considering yarmenlko gets a yellow for a coming together of ankles .. just because it's like in the 75th min not the 1st ..
		
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I only saw the last 25 minutes so fill me in on the rest. The Toon looked sharp, West Ham looked flat. Was that the same throughout or just the bit I saw?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I only saw the last 25 minutes so fill me in on the rest. The Toon looked sharp, West Ham looked flat. Was that the same throughout or just the bit I saw?
		
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Basically yes 

We had a 10 min spell in first half towards end 

And when Haller etc finally came on we looked slightly less rubbish for 10 mins 

Noble is still not good enough at this level. Hasn't been for years if he ever was

Needs to be put out to pasture


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## Beezerk (Sep 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Noble is still not good enough at this level. Hasn't been for years if he ever was

Needs to be put out to pasture
		
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I've seen that mentioned a few times on here, why has the manager not spotted it if it's true?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			I've seen that mentioned a few times on here, why has the manager not spotted it if it's true?
		
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Mr west ham ofc the fans would go mental

A reason he has never got an England cap when some dross has over the years

We are litterally shoe horning him in now

Our rice and soucek partnership is first choice so now he a number 10? Pa . Fornals is clearly a 10 and is shunted to the left wing to fit in an aging noble ...drop him put fornals central .. Antonio left and Haller up top

Then watch much better football


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Mr west ham ofc the fans would go mental

A reason he has never got an England cap when some dross has over the years

We are litterally shoe horning him in now

Our rice and soucek partnership is first choice so now he a number 10? Pa . Fornals is clearly a 10 and is shunted to the left wing to fit in an aging noble ...drop him put fornals central .. Antonio left and Haller up top

Then watch much better football
		
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Noble seems to be one of those players who the fans will blame but every manager that comes in sticks with him because of particular qualities on the pitch. Seen it with Lucas and Henderson, I'm sure theres others at other clubs.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Noble seems to be one of those players who the fans will blame but every manager that comes in sticks with him because of particular qualities on the pitch. Seen it with Lucas and Henderson, I'm sure theres others at other clubs.
		
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Difference is Lucas and Henderson had some serious ability 

He starts to keep better players out the team

Fornals has so much talent but is shunted left to fit in noble

We look better when he goes off.....


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## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Performances weren't the point you were making... 

Expectations (ambitions) were. If you're happy with Utd signing a player of his calibre then fair play to you.

Then again, pretty sure you got rebuffed for Josh King too.....
		
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To be honest I mostly just love the whataboutery.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2020)

1st half, Everton v Spurs. Good half for Everton, Spurs came strong last 5 minutes. Everton's midfield looks so much stronger, much better at ball retention. Nothing particularly happening in the last third still and ultimately that is where it counts. Richarlison 😱. He owes DCL something for not squaring the ball for a tap in 😪.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2020)

That’s a great goal.
I do like a bullet header.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a great goal.
I do like a bullet header.
		
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We don't get to see many bullet headers like that any more. I'm feeling quite nostalgic 😄.

Great cross, great header.

If Richarlison wasn't having one of his 'days', we would be clear by now.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We don't get to see many bullet headers like that any more. I'm feeling quite nostalgic 😄.

Great cross, great header.
		
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It’s because so many teams play with no CF or a 5’6” striker good in their own way but I do like a proper 6’2”CF who can finish.
Not many about though.
Richarlison though has it all for a quality striker he just dosnt show it enough for me, good player though.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2020)

Hope James stays fit .. looks a good addition to the league


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2020)

When he, Richarlison, is on he is very very good. Some days his attitude is just off though. That may be his demeanour but I agree, he needs greater consistency. The upside for us is that he has progressed each season with us and this year he has better players around him


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## Dan2501 (Sep 13, 2020)

Brilliant performance that. Love the way we set-up in midfield, thought Doucoure and Allan were brilliant in there at breaking up the play. All 3 signings looked excellent - thought James was superb, exactly what we've been missing going forward. Constantly looking for a forward pass, just pure class on the ball, going to be fun watching him this year if he stays fit. A win and a clean sheet away at Spurs, can't ask for a better start than that.


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## Piece (Sep 13, 2020)

Jeez. Spurs were made to look rank and pedestrian. Everton lively and easy, easy winners. Thats the Doucoure I remember!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 13, 2020)

Also, he gets a lot of hate, but shout-out to Jordan Pickford, he was class today.


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## Fish (Sep 13, 2020)

My day just got better after seeing the Everton result 😎

Good day on the golf course and Spurs lose at home, it’s a blue day 💙


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## arnieboy (Sep 13, 2020)

Same old Spurs, where was the effort,  imagination and pace?


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## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2020)

arnieboy said:



			Same old Spurs, where was the effort,  imagination and pace?
		
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In terms of the last two, you know Jose wouldn’t want such things in his team.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2020)

Spurs have gone from Rose to Davies

Sold Dembele didn’t replace him 

Sold most creative mid in the league in Eriksen, didn’t replace him 

Haven’t bought a striker in 3 years 

Levy has absolutely xx Spurs, whilst putting them in 500m if debt with the stadium 

Get him out

I guess all that is true (from twitter)


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## adam6177 (Sep 13, 2020)

Surely Kane must see now he has to leave this transfer window if he ever wants to win things.... Spurs are going backwards and I believe they've had their 5 minutes in the spotlight.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 13, 2020)

Totally outplayed by Arsenal yesterday and it was even worse watching back the full match. I still think Arsenal are about three top players from being a side that can compete successfully for the PL and in Europe and I still feel they have their old tendency to lose or draw at much lower sides but think Arteta has them forward. As for the other North London side you can see Mourinho doing what he has done at so many clubs and suck all the potential and hunger from the players.


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Totally outplayed by Arsenal yesterday and it was even worse watching back the full match. I still think Arsenal are about three top players from being a side that can compete successfully for the PL and in Europe and I still feel they have their old tendency to lose or draw at much lower sides but think Arteta has them forward. As for the other North London side you can see Mourinho doing what he has done at so many clubs and suck all the potential and hunger from the players.
		
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Arguably more than 3 albeit got quite a few missing at the moment, at least there appears to be a structure a team ethos and some willingness to at least try and defend (as a team) now. Couple of good debuts and hopefully Saliba and at least 1 more midfielder to follow. Thoughts Ceballos looked excellent when he came on too, expect we see far better of him this season. Assuming Aubam signs we still need 1 if not 2 more midfielders and a back up keeper before the window shuts but a lot will depend as much on exits as new signings as there still a lot of excess (bodies and salary) that needs to be moved on if at all possible 

Few encouraging signs for your lot, not helped by Mitrovic being on the bench, going to be a long season battle you'd think though


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			Arguably more than 3 albeit got quite a few missing at the moment, at least there appears to be a structure a team ethos and some willingness to at least try and defend (as a team) now. Couple of good debuts and hopefully Saliba and at least 1 more midfielder to follow. Thoughts Ceballos looked excellent when he came on too, expect we see far better of him this season. Assuming Aubam signs we still need 1 if not 2 more midfielders and a back up keeper before the window shuts but a lot will depend as much on exits as new signings as there still a lot of excess (bodies and salary) that needs to be moved on if at all possible

Few encouraging signs for your lot, not helped by Mitrovic being on the bench, going to be a long season battle you'd think though
		
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I agree. Given how Leeds frightened Liverpool last night they'll be massively up for it in their first home game (naturally against Fulham). To be honest as long as we can compete in the mini league of Southampton, WBA, Palace, Villa, Brighton and perhaps a couple of others then we've a chance.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 13, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree. Given how Leeds frightened Liverpool last night they'll be massively up for it in their first home game (naturally against Fulham). To be honest as long as we can compete in the mini league of Southampton, WBA, Palace, Villa, Brighton and perhaps a couple of others then we've a chance.
		
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I’d be surprised to see Saints in the same bubble as yourselves tbh. 

I think the newly promoted teams will all be there alongside villa, palace, Brighton and West Ham.


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2020)

Just the 14 yellows and 5 reds (3 straight reds) in the Marseille v PSG game tonight (including a red for Neymar)


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			Just the 14 yellows and 5 reds (3 straight reds) in the Marseille v PSG game tonight (including a red for Neymar)
		
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Neymar claiming racist abuse at him was the cause


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## Orikoru (Sep 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			Just the 14 yellows and 5 reds (3 straight reds) in the Marseille v PSG game tonight (including a red for Neymar)
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305251155795226625


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305251155795226625

Click to expand...


wow just wow, not heard the end of this one thinks


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## Swingalot (Sep 13, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I’d be surprised to see Saints in the same bubble as yourselves tbh.

I think the newly promoted teams will all be there alongside villa, palace, Brighton and West Ham.
		
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burnley to go this year please!


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## GG26 (Sep 13, 2020)

Leicester looked good today, or were WBA just poor?


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2020)

GG26 said:



			Leicester looked good today, or were WBA just poor?
		
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Leicester looked rusty early, improved for the goal. WBA were awful, hard to not see them in the bottom 3 at the end of the year for me (hope im wrong tho!)


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## USER1999 (Sep 13, 2020)

Not exactly a punch from Neymar, more a bit of a pathetic tap on the back of the head.


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## USER1999 (Sep 13, 2020)

Whole lot looked like handbags to me.


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## Slime (Sep 14, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Whole lot looked like handbags to me.
		
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Exactly that, just pathetic behaviour and the referee just had no choice.
Instead of a ban, the players should be made to play the next game wearing a nappy or watch the next game from a pitchside cot.
I can't think of a current player I despise more than Neymar.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 14, 2020)

Neymar claims he was racially abused by Alvaro (apparently called him a monkey). If true his reaction and the reactions of his team-mates were absolutely justified and it should be Alvaro being vilified, not Neymar.


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## Kellfire (Sep 14, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Neymar claims he was racially abused by Alvaro (apparently called him a monkey). If true his reaction and the reactions of his team-mates were absolutely justified and it should be Alvaro being vilified, not Neymar.
		
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It’s just cool to hate Neymar.


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## Orikoru (Sep 14, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Neymar claims he was racially abused by Alvaro (apparently called him a monkey). If true his reaction and the reactions of his team-mates were absolutely justified and it should be Alvaro being vilified, not Neymar.
		
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Kellfire said:



			It’s just cool to hate Neymar.
		
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Given his reputation as a tosser I'd be taking his accusation with a pinch of salt until it's backed up by someone else. Front the footage you can see he was red carded for punching someone in the back of the head who was arguing with a different player. So not as a direct reaction to anything said to him.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 14, 2020)

Slime said:



			Exactly that, just pathetic behaviour and the referee just had no choice.
Instead of a ban, the players should be made to play the next game wearing a nappy or watch the next game from a pitchside cot.
I can't think of a current player I despise more than Neymar.
		
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So called hard men rolling over on the floor .
It’s embarrassing they should be ashamed of themselves.
Wasn’t a decent punch thrown all night.


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## Orikoru (Sep 14, 2020)

Some hit that from James. Thought Brighton deserved the equaliser (albeit via some ropey keeping) because they've been the better side by far. But James was having none of that!

Lamptey looks class, he's having Alonso on toast. Loftus-Cheek was terrible, not surprised he's gone off now.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 14, 2020)

Lamptey and White at the back look very good for Brighton, Lamptey has been superb. So many talented young English RBs.

Agree on Loftus-Cheek, he was dreadful. Havertz reminds me a lot of Ozil based this display, and not in a good way. Not doubting his quality as think he'll prove his worth as the season goes on but been a very poor debut. Nowhere near physical enough, knocked off the ball too easily, not tracking back or tracking runners at set pieces, not pressing well enough, been very poor.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 15, 2020)

Brighton are a lovely team to watch but badly need someone to score goals for them. They need their own Danny Ings. Another one here who is full of praise for the young right back, Lamptey. What a standout game he had. How often is the man of the match a right back by some degree?

Chelsea have a heck of a squad now but will be hamstrung until they get a keeper that is up to the job.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 15, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Brighton are a lovely team to watch but badly need someone to score goals for them. They need their own Danny Ings. Another one here who is full of praise for the young right back, Lamptey. What a standout game he had. How often is the man of the match a right back by some degree?

Chelsea have a heck of a squad now but will be hamstrung until they get a keeper that is up to the job.
		
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I've heard their getting mendy then they will turn their attention to rice for final signing of the window


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 15, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I've heard their getting mendy then they will turn their attention to rice for final signing of the window
		
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Blimey, that will be some window for them. A good number of players will be getting splinters there this season. 

How would you feel about Rice going? Would it give Moyes the money he needs or will it weaken you too much? You could always get 2-3 Chelsea players on loan for the season as part of the deal 🤔


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## pauljames87 (Sep 15, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Blimey, that will be some window for them. A good number of players will be getting splinters there this season. 

How would you feel about Rice going? Would it give Moyes the money he needs or will it weaken you too much? You could always get 2-3 Chelsea players on loan for the season as part of the deal 🤔
		
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Rumours are the asking price is 80 million with 60 being the upfront fee rest add ins

Think Moyes wanted Barkley included in the deal but they value him at 30 million so gets lower cash to do replacements with

Personally I don't mind if he goes or stays. Prefer him to stay ofc but if we can use the money and actually buy replacements 

We need a CB , a lb and a RB 

We also have soucek who is a boil in the bag rice replacement


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## pauljames87 (Sep 15, 2020)

There are also rumours of a take over on the card either from USA or UEA 

Anyone but the Sullivan family playing football manager badly


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## fundy (Sep 15, 2020)

Aubameyang signed his contract


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			Aubameyang signed his contract 

Click to expand...

Shouldn't you be posting that in the "Things that Gladden The Heart" thread?


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## Rlburnside (Sep 16, 2020)

Bale being linked to a move back to Spurs hope it goes ahead as we need something to give us hope of some progress. 

After watching the first game it’s not looking good.


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## Orikoru (Sep 16, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Bale being linked to a move back to Spurs hope it goes ahead as we need something to give us hope of some progress.

After watching the first game it’s not looking good.
		
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Apparently there is something in the rumour for once this time (I watch Alasdair Gold on YouTube who actually has some knowledge of the goings on at Spurs). I'm a bit torn on it really, obviously we could use him, but if he comes in and we do well it'll just be everyone saying we were crap without Bale and he just bails us out every time, just like 8 years ago. Shouldn't complain I guess - we look dead in the water otherwise.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 16, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently there is something in the rumour for once this time (I watch Alasdair Gold on YouTube who actually has some knowledge of the goings on at Spurs). I'm a bit torn on it really, obviously we could use him, but if he comes in and we do well it'll just be everyone saying we were crap without Bale and he just bails us out every time, just like 8 years ago. Shouldn't complain I guess - we look dead in the water otherwise.
		
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If you get bale then that's 100% the signing you need to make you guys complete 

Better depth in the offensive department 

Also he can play up top when kane gets injured


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## Kellfire (Sep 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			If you get bale then that's 100% the signing you need to make you guys complete

Better depth in the offensive department

Also he can play up top when kane gets injured
		
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I think Bale’s injuries would also be a huge concern. He isn’t capable of playing a lot of football anymore.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 16, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I think Bale’s injuries would also be a huge concern. He isn’t capable of playing a lot of football anymore.
		
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Long as him and kane aren't out together injured it will be a huge bonus 

Plus a winner in the dressing room they don't have much of that


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 16, 2020)

Getting Bale would sprinkle some star dust on the team, boost moral of players and fans alike. Sell a good few shirts as well. Assuming Real will be paying a good chunk of his wages still so it could be a very good deal for Spurs.


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## Orikoru (Sep 16, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I think Bale’s injuries would also be a huge concern. He isn’t capable of playing a lot of football anymore.
		
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Do we know that for sure? That's not the reason Real were leaving him out, they just don't like him. Assuming he'd be rested for League Cup and Europa anyway, he might be good for most of the league matches.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 16, 2020)

Villa have signed Martinez, GK, from arsenal for £17m. Does this mean Heaton is moving on? £17m for a number 2 seems pretty excessive. 

Any Villa fans on here who can enlighten us?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 16, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Villa have signed Martinez, GK, from arsenal for £17m. Does this mean Heaton is moving on? £17m for a number 2 seems pretty excessive. 

Any Villa fans on here who can enlighten us?
		
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Has Heaton come back looking dodgy from his injury ? Been a few injuries recently 

He is 34.. tore his knee last year 

Knee injuries ruin keepers


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## Orikoru (Sep 16, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Villa have signed Martinez, GK, from arsenal for £17m. Does this mean Heaton is moving on? £17m for a number 2 seems pretty excessive.

Any Villa fans on here who can enlighten us?
		
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Fantasy league says he's injured for at least another month. To be fair he's been injured on and off for a few years, I'd say he's probably on his last legs really.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 16, 2020)

Thanks fella's. That makes sense then.


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## User62651 (Sep 16, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Getting Bale would sprinkle some star dust on the team, boost moral of players and fans alike. Sell a good few shirts as well. Assuming Real will be paying a good chunk of his wages still so it could be a very good deal for Spurs.
		
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His football will need to be stellar, I know he's been sidelined by Zidane but his approach has not been very professional imo, mercenary even. 
I think he's a risk wrt injury, the EPL is more physical than La Liga.
Spurs could use him though (if fit) looking at the Everton match, unhappy camp, Alli continues to falter.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Has Heaton come back looking dodgy from his injury ? Been a few injuries recently

He is 34.. tore his knee last year

Knee injuries ruin keepers
		
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Heaton hasn't played yet this season as his team (I am forbidden to use their name) have  not yet started their PL season.

With regard to Martinez the fee does seem rather high for one who has only had a comparatively short period at the top  level and was regarded by many  as not exceptional when out on loan.


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## fundy (Sep 16, 2020)

some chatter that Bale back to Spurs on loan is a done deal, good for the prem, rather see him elsewhere though


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## 4LEX (Sep 17, 2020)

Alli is finished at a top club, absolute joker. Made his money and doesn't care. He'll gradually slide down the ladder. He's done nothing at club level for two years. Another Jesse Lingard.

Bale for £20m all in for one season is worth it for sure. When you look at Spurs midfield and attack bar Kane, who has been off the boil for a year and Son they've got very little. Bale is a risk as he's done nothing for a few years but needs a spark. I think going back to Spurs isn't the move he needed but Mourinho could be the one to push him on.


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## Orikoru (Sep 17, 2020)

I thought Europa League was on BT but our game that's on now is on some channel I've never heard of that sounds made up - Premier Sports. Probably a good thing that I can't watch it really.


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## 4LEX (Sep 17, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			It’s just cool to hate Neymar.
		
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He's the biggest waste of talent of the last decade. So much ability, quality and skill. Yet he cares more about money, easy rides and life outside football. PSG would win the league with Dan James in his position and fail in the CL the same way, one of the worst transfers in football history for both parties.

I think in terms of ability only Messi playing today is better.

His arrogance, attitude, diving, being a professional victim and woeful finishing when it really counts says it all though. More crocodile tears than goals at the highest level - bottle job.


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## 4LEX (Sep 17, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I thought Europa League was on BT but our game that's on now is on some channel I've never heard of that sounds made up - Premier Sports. Probably a good thing that I can't watch it really.
		
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That came with my BT Sports deal. It's mainly boxing I think! You can still watch Spurs


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## USER1999 (Sep 17, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I thought Europa League was on BT but our game that's on now is on some channel I've never heard of that sounds made up - Premier Sports. Probably a good thing that I can't watch it really.
		
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You might not want to be watching it though.


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## Orikoru (Sep 17, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			You might not want to be watching it though.
		
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It appears we've got the job done with a fantastic performance that was never in doubt! 😬


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## Rlburnside (Sep 17, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I thought Europa League was on BT but our game that's on now is on some channel I've never heard of that sounds made up - Premier Sports. Probably a good thing that I can't watch it really.
		
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Also thought it was on BT not to disappointed though after watching the Everton game, scraped a win by the sounds of it. 

Saw a report on bbc news dinner time about high line tour of stadium, didn’t know that they done exact replica of the cockerel that included all the dents that Gazza fired up trying to shoot pidgins 😂

My son and myself got  a stadium tour from my daughter for Xmas,  nephew is a season ticket holder and got us tickets to see C/L game but that never worked for us unfortunately, had e-mail from club and extended date of tour so hopefully get down sometime.


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## Fish (Sep 17, 2020)

😜😂😂


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## Kellfire (Sep 18, 2020)

4LEX said:



			He's the biggest waste of talent of the last decade. So much ability, quality and skill. Yet he cares more about money, easy rides and life outside football. PSG would win the league with Dan James in his position and fail in the CL the same way, one of the worst transfers in football history for both parties.

I think in terms of ability only Messi playing today is better.

His arrogance, attitude, diving, being a professional victim and woeful finishing when it really counts says it all though. More crocodile tears than goals at the highest level - bottle job.
		
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I think you genuinely believe you have the agent provocateur finger on the pulse with everything you say on this thread whereas really you’re like the kid who plays Championship Manager and reads the pullout in The Sun but would probably mistake a real football match for a game of water polo.


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## sunshine (Sep 18, 2020)

fundy said:



			some chatter that Bale back to Spurs on loan is a done deal, good for the prem, rather see him elsewhere though 

Click to expand...

Apparently he's playing golf this afternoon with Daniel Levy and Steve Hitchen (chief scout at Spurs)....

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12701209/spurs-leaked-bale-golf-levy/


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## Dan2501 (Sep 18, 2020)

sunshine said:



			Apparently he's playing golf this afternoon with Daniel Levy and Steve Hitchen (chief scout at Spurs)....

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12701209/spurs-leaked-bale-golf-levy/

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 Someone on a forum did that as a joke, it went viral on Twitter and the trash "news" reporters are reporting it as fact. It's not true.


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## sunshine (Sep 18, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



 Someone on a forum did that as a joke, it went viral on Twitter and the trash "news" reporters are reporting it as fact. It's not true.
		
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The screenshot of the tee sheet is true. But whoever entered the booking did it as a joke - to be fair I think it's pretty funny!


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2020)

How long before JM turns Bale into a LB and publicly blames him?? I'm giving him 5 games 😁


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## fundy (Sep 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			How long before JM turns Bale into a LB and publicly blames him?? I'm giving him 5 games 😁
		
Click to expand...


isnt Bale bringing a LB with him to stop Jose doing so


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2020)

fundy said:



			isnt Bale bringing a LB with him to stop Jose doing so 

Click to expand...

🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤦


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## Dando (Sep 18, 2020)

The new spuds pitch


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2020)

Thiago Done, Jota next?


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## Slime (Sep 18, 2020)

Whilst United continue to do sod all!
Just one in, a good one hopefully, and just one out.
Absolutely pathetic performance to date and, with time running out, we're looking to be in a battle for the fourth spot yet again.
We are desperate for new owners. Owners who have an interest in football and not just a balance sheet.
Fuming, absolutely fuming.
I just feel so sorry for OGS, his hands are so utterly tied.


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## fundy (Sep 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Thiago Done, Jota next?
		
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bit early to say Thiagos done mate, i think hell prove to be a decent signing 

Jota an interesting one, decent potential but price seems toppy

Are the FSGOut lot getting happier at least


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## adam6177 (Sep 18, 2020)

Slime said:



			Whilst United continue to do sod all!
Just one in, a good one hopefully, and just one out.
Absolutely pathetic performance to date and, with time running out, we're looking to be in a battle for the fourth spot yet again.
We are desperate for new owners. Owners who have an interest in football and not just a balance sheet.
Fuming, absolutely fuming.
I just feel so sorry for OGS, his hands are so utterly tied.
		
Click to expand...

You think van de beke or whatever his name is ... Will start?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Thiago Done, Jota next?
		
Click to expand...

Given the potency of your current line up is there any need? Who is the current reserve strikers and will they need to be shipped out first (we need a quality six yard poacher to feed off Mitrovic if you have one going)


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## Slime (Sep 18, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			You think van de beke or whatever his name is ... Will start?
		
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No.
I think he was bought to strengthen our bench to give Ole more options from the bench.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2020)

fundy said:



			bit early to say Thiagos done mate, i think hell prove to be a decent signing 

Jota an interesting one, decent potential but price seems toppy

Are the FSGOut lot getting happier at least
		
Click to expand...

😀😀

 £35m for a 23yr old isn’t too bad, he seems to have the profile klopp likes.

They've all wet the bed I think. No doubt they’ll find something else to moan about.


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## fundy (Sep 18, 2020)

Just the 8 for Bayern Munich to start the season tonight then lol


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## davemc1 (Sep 18, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Chelsea spending big again. COVID clearly having no economic effects in West London. 

It’s exciting times buying new players. I can’t deny it’s a little frustrating the reds not joining in. Still time yet, 1 established player to come in and freshen things up a must for me. Also CB cover needed
		
Click to expand...


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## davemc1 (Sep 19, 2020)

Liverpool now being linked with CH Ozan Kabak from Schalke. 


It now appears that Merseyside hasn’t been financially affected by the COVID either 🤣


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

Not sure who was was more annoyed at that first goal, Everton or West ham fans lol


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not sure who was was more annoyed at that first goal, Everton or West ham fans lol
		
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The toxic forum I'm a member of is even more negative now


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

Good hit Rodriguez

lol Gibbs, idiot


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 19, 2020)

Everton are the great entertainers this year 😁


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2020)

Man Everton play some great football 

Good old James. And whilst I'm on that it's James not "Ha-mez"... He has said before he is named after James bond.... Not *Ha-mez bond *


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Man Everton play some great football

Good old James. And whilst I'm on that it's James not "Ha-mez"... He has said before he is named after James bond.... Not *Ha-mez bond *

Click to expand...

Ah, but in Colombia they dub it in to Spanish so he says 'mi nombre es Bond, Ha-mez Bond' 😆


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, but in Colombia they dub it in to Spanish so he says 'mi nombre es Bond, Ha-mez Bond' 😆
		
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By that note we dub his name back over here 

It's James 

Just like Terry Henry 🤣


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## 4LEX (Sep 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I think you genuinely believe you have the agent provocateur finger on the pulse with everything you say on this thread whereas really you’re like the kid who plays Championship Manager and reads the pullout in The Sun but would probably mistake a real football match for a game of water polo.
		
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You can't prove that kid wrong though, which says it all about you. You're the typical band wagon United fan who believes they've got the best players in every position, Ole is the next Sir Alex and success is just around the corner. Basically you've become Liverpool of the 90's and 00's. Deluded.

Neymar has wasted the peak years of his career behaving like an idiot in a footballing backwater. He's done zero in the CL for PSG and nothing for Brazil. His performances for both in big games have bordered on embarrassing.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			By that note we dub his name back over here

It's James

Just like Terry Henry 🤣
		
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I always used to chuckle at Daveed Ginola.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 19, 2020)

£45m for Jota to Liverpool, I know who has the better of that deal.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			£45m for Jota to Liverpool, I know who has the better of that deal.
		
Click to expand...

Wolves?


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## Dan2501 (Sep 19, 2020)

James Rodriguez   Dominic Calvert Lewin  Yerry Mina


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			James Rodriguez   Dominic Calvert Lewin  Yerry Mina 

Click to expand...


no judgement on Pickford this week?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2020)

Leeds look a great addition to the league


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## hairball_89 (Sep 19, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			£45m for Jota to Liverpool, I know who has the better of that deal.
		
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personally, I'm excited.

If they'd sent an email out saying "Jota: £40m + add ons. Spread the £40m over the next 3 years and your first instalment is a promising young RB because we've sold Doherty" loads of teams would have been interested. 

23 years old, 16&8 goals and assists in 46 apps last season. 10&7 the year before. Only going to get better, playing in a better team under one of the best managers around? Yep. works for me.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Wolves?
		
Click to expand...

Yes mate. At that price I think you could've got a lot better. But I think the way we've allowed you to structure the payments has helped. 

On his day he is outstanding but just doesn't happen often enough. I really hope that improves and he absolutely smashes it for you. I can get over selling our players to the champions. Good luck to him.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 19, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			personally, I'm excited.

If they'd sent an email out saying "Jota: £40m + add ons. Spread the £40m over the next 3 years and your first instalment is a promising young RB because we've sold Doherty" loads of teams would have been interested.

23 years old, 16&8 goals and assists in 46 apps last season. 10&7 the year before. Only going to get better, playing in a better team under one of the best managers around? Yep. works for me.
		
Click to expand...

I watch him every week. You have overpaid. But like I said to Stu, the structure of the deal has helped. 

Hope he nets 20 goals for you. Great lad and he won't hide. Gave us some great memories and took on a chance on us when we were 15th in the Championship (Mendes obviously helped too.)


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## davemc1 (Sep 19, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Yes mate. At that price I think you could've got a lot better. But I think the way we've allowed you to structure the payments has helped. 

On his day he is outstanding but just doesn't happen often enough. I really hope that improves and he absolutely smashes it for you. I can get over selling our players to the champions. Good luck to him.
		
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 I remember davie papas saying something similar when we signed mane. 
Also one of the Geordie lads saying that for the money we payed for Gini, he’d drive him to Liverpool himself. 

I don’t watch much football, bar Liverpool so I’ve no clue. I do trust in their signings tho


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## User62651 (Sep 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Leeds look a great addition to the league
		
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Yep, like Newcastle 95-96 - defence matters not if you score more than they.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 19, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			I remember davie papas saying something similar when we signed mane.
Also one of the Geordie lads saying that for the money we payed for Gini, he’d drive him to Liverpool himself.

I don’t watch much football, bar Liverpool so I’ve no clue. I do trust in their signings tho
		
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Fair enough Dave, I hope he does as well they have. No sour grapes from me.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Yes mate. At that price I think you could've got a lot better. But I think the way we've allowed you to structure the payments has helped. 

On his day he is outstanding but just doesn't happen often enough. I really hope that improves and he absolutely smashes it for you. I can get over selling our players to the champions. Good luck to him.
		
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If rumours are true they initially wanted Sarr but Watford were asking £50m+ 

I like Jota from what I've seen, the fee seems excessive £41-45m but getting between £9.5-£13.5m for a young highly rated fullback whose played very little 1st team games makes it about right. 

I'm hoping he can  be Mane or a Salah, hes certainly got the ability. I know many scoffed when we were buying a Chelsea reject and Mane. 

He's a definite  improvement on Shaqiri and Origi though.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2020)

Such a weird position for west ham
Our bench actually is stronger than our first team 

Yarmenlko , Haller, lanzini, Anderson 

I'd drop cresswell personally .. put masukua to lb then Antonio left and Haller through middle 

Only change id make


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## howbow88 (Sep 19, 2020)

Any Man Utd fans here? That is the worst team I have ever seen us play at Old Trafford  We were very lucky with the penalty, but we should have been 3 up at that point anyway. Solskjaer 

I just hope we don't sell Zaha now, but I think someone will come in for him...


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## chrisd (Sep 19, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			Any Man Utd fans here? That is the worst team I have ever seen us play at Old Trafford  We were very lucky with the penalty, but we should have been 3 up at that point anyway. Solskjaer 

I just hope we don't sell Zaha now, but I think someone will come in for him...
		
Click to expand...

I'd love him to stay but Eze looked good and Michy will score goals imo. Great result  but I'd be upset for a penalty like that to be awarded against. Be good when some of our defenders return but Mitchell looks a good alternative at left back.


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

chrisd said:



			I'd love him to stay but Eze looked good and Michy will score goals imo. Great result  but I'd be upset for a penalty like that to be awarded against. Be good when some of our defenders return but Mitchell looks a good alternative at left back.
		
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wheres he going to go at the price you want? struggle to see it being anyone in the prem


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 19, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Yep, like Newcastle 95-96 - defence matters not if you score more than they.

Click to expand...

Thing is if a bunch of muppets like Fulham can get 3 then better sides will find a way to nullify their attack and pick holes in that defence. Come a cold Tuesday in January can they scrap an ugly 1-0? That said I' have enjoyed watching them and Bielsa won't compromise his principles


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			wheres he going to go at the price you want? struggle to see it being anyone in the prem
		
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The time to sell at full price was last season. Everton were desperate for him, I think spurs were interested as well. Both have now moved on, budgets done. Not sure where we would fit now that would be a big step up. Sideways yes, not necessarily up. He may need to move abroad to get the level he wants.


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## User62651 (Sep 19, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thing is if a bunch of muppets like Fulham can get 3 then better sides will find a way to nullify their attack and pick holes in that defence. Come a cold Tuesday in January can they scrap an ugly 1-0? That said I' have enjoyed watching them and Bielsa won't compromise his principles
		
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I think as long as they stay up this season that will be a success. They look good enough for mid table to me based upon 2 games, free scoring team, the relegated teams always struggle for goals.


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The time to sell at full price was last season. Everton were desperate for him, I think spurs were interested as well. Both have now moved on, budgets done. Not sure where we would fit now that would be a big step up. Sideways yes, not necessarily up. He may need to move abroad to get the level he wants.
		
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arsenal wanted him before they bought pepe for sure

currently cant see anyone in the top 8 where they have the need (albeit id still have him at arsenal)


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 19, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			I think as long as they stay up this season that will be a success. They look good enough for mid table to me based upon 2 games, free scoring team, the relegated teams always struggle for goals.
		
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I think Leeds will be fine (unlike us). I am just saying that there will still need to be times when Leeds are content to grind out an ugly 1-0. They managed it last season so it is in their DNA but Bielsa seems intent on making some kind of statement


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

Tierney injury disappointing, rather seen us bring in Maitland Niles than Kolasinac

Defense all over the place early on here


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			Any Man Utd fans here? That is the worst team I have ever seen us play at Old Trafford  We were very lucky with the penalty, but we should have been 3 up at that point anyway. Solskjaer 

*I just hope we don't sell Zaha now, but I think someone will come in for him...*

Click to expand...

I honestly dont think he's good enough for any of the top sides. He's frustrating to watch for me, keeps hold of the ball way too long and falls over too easily. I dont think his brain is there for the really top teams.


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I honestly dont think he's good enough for any of the top sides. He's frustrating to watch for me, keeps hold of the ball way too long and falls over too easily. I dont think his brain is there for the really top teams.
		
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hes been excellent first 2 games not really guilty of either those things in them either


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## User62651 (Sep 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I honestly dont think he's good enough for any of the top sides. He's frustrating to watch for me, keeps hold of the ball way too long and falls over too easily. I dont think his brain is there for the really top teams.
		
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Had his chance and blew it. Seems to have a bit of the Balotelli's about him (thinks he's a bigger deal than he is).


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

Not sure were going to break defensive sides down with this line up and formation, relying on one or two for a bit of individual brilliance


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## howbow88 (Sep 19, 2020)

chrisd said:



			I'd love him to stay but Eze looked good and Michy will score goals imo. Great result  but I'd be upset for a penalty like that to be awarded against. Be good when some of our defenders return but Mitchell looks a good alternative at left back.
		
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The penalty and the retake may well now be in the laws of the game but they probably shouldn't be. Also hilarious to think it happened at Old Trafford - there is absolutely no chance these sort of decisions would have happened in Ferguson's time.

But like I said - 3-1 flatters Man Utd. It genuinely could have been 5 or 6. An in-form Man City would have put 8 or 9 past them today. 

As for Zaha... I know he will probably go, and Eze looks alright... but Zaha can just magic up something out of nothing and when he plays well, is an absolute joy to watch. I'm expecting him to leave, so I will be pleasantly surprised if he stays.


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## chrisd (Sep 19, 2020)

I've seen Zaha play plenty of times and he is the real deal


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## Papas1982 (Sep 19, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			I remember davie papas saying something similar when we signed mane.
Also one of the Geordie lads saying that for the money we payed for Gini, he’d drive him to Liverpool himself.

I don’t watch much football, bar Liverpool so I’ve no clue. I do trust in their signings tho
		
Click to expand...

Yeah twas me. I wasn't slaggi g Mane if as such. Just saying that he only performed when it put him in the window. Having got his step up, credit to him he deserved to be there. 

I think Gini is a funny one. He's not the player you signed from Newcastle (less goals), but without him and he do you always look worse.


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## User62651 (Sep 19, 2020)

chrisd said:



			I've seen Zaha play plenty of times and he is the real deal
		
Click to expand...

Why's he still at Palace?


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

Thats better, brilliant from Aubam


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## chrisd (Sep 19, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Why's he still at Palace?
		
Click to expand...

Because he's contracted to play for them


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			Thats better, brilliant from Aubam 

Click to expand...

Thumped that header in. Very tight decision but great stand up ball and emphatic finish. Match needed something as both sides a little error strewn


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## Orikoru (Sep 19, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Why's he still at Palace?
		
Click to expand...

I think that's a great point. He's good when he wants to be. Relatively poor return from him last season, and now he's able to play while the transfer window is open he's suddenly producing the goods. Always a bit suspect. Seen him have a few stroppy nothingy games as well. I think as you say someone else would have surely taken a punt by now if he was that good.


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

surely thats handball if Lindelofs was   (neither are handball btw)


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## User62651 (Sep 19, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Because he's contracted to play for them
		
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Very good. 
He made it clear he wanted a move away - didn't happen, why not? Perhaps because coaches around the league don't see value in him?


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## chrisd (Sep 19, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Very good. 
He made it clear he wanted a move away - didn't happen, why not? Perhaps because coaches around the league don't see value in him?
		
Click to expand...

I think there was interest in him but (I'm pleased to say) that the price set was too high, but that was £70m to £80m and there aren't so many clubs around who operate at that sort of level.


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## chrisd (Sep 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I think that's a great point. He's good when he wants to be. Relatively poor return from him last season, and now he's able to play while the transfer window is open he's suddenly producing the goods. Always a bit suspect. Seen him have a few stroppy nothingy games as well. I think as you say someone else would have surely taken a punt by now if he was that good.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, he doesn't star in every game but if that was a requirement Kane wouldn't be in demand either.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 19, 2020)

I think Zaha is a very good player .
My only reservation about him is his temper , complains far to much about fouls on him but some of the tackles he does are worse.
But I would have him.
Better players playing faster football would bring him on imo.


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

kolasinac sigh 

west ham prob deserve to be level mind, we really look lacking in creativity with ball at feet


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2020)

Great goal

Even game so far but arsenal have far more quality


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2020)

We always look more fluid without noble


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			hes been excellent first 2 games not really guilty of either those things in them either
		
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You must've missed the 3 times he overran the ball today when there was a pass on a few seconds earlier.😉


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## Bazzatron (Sep 19, 2020)

Patrice Evra was alright on Sky. Not sure we'll see him again.


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## SaintHacker (Sep 19, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Come a cold Tuesday in January can they scrap an ugly 1-0?
		
Click to expand...

What the hell are you on about? This is Leeds we're talking about not 
Boca Juniors. Have you ever even been to Leeds? Its baltic in the middle ao August!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 19, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Patrice Evra was alright on Sky. Not sure we'll see him again.
		
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He was on towards the end of last season,  the restart. He was on when Roy Keane had his fabulous meltdown. He was open mouthed and laughing 😆.

When I've seen him he has been good. What makes you think he will not be around more? (I didn't see his match today)


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

like to see us bring Willock or Elneny on and move move Ceballos much further forward


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2020)

This game is crying out for Haller. (For us that is, arsenal won't want a proper finisher on)


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			This game is crying out for Haller. (For us that is, arsenal won't want a proper finisher on)
		
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lol we have the best one in the league, were just playing him in left midfield


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol we have the best one in the league, were just playing him in left midfield
		
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Crazy decision...  Like when bilic convinced himself payet was a LM and not a CAM


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Crazy decision...  Like when bilic convinced himself payet was a LM and not a CAM
		
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it works ok when were playing on the counter against the top sides, really dont like it week in week out though


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2020)

well we didnt deserve that but well take it, finally ceballos further forward


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## Bazzatron (Sep 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He was on towards the end of last season,  the restart. He was on when Roy Keane had his fabulous meltdown. He was open mouthed and laughing 😆.

When I've seen him he has been good. What makes you think he will not be around more? (I didn't see his match today)
		
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He's mentioned Zaha having a relationship with Moyes' daughter, which he has apparently always denied and said it affected him mentally. Kelly Cates had to make an apology later in the programme about it.


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## 4LEX (Sep 20, 2020)

Evra is a bit scattergun but that Zaha comment was brilliant. Sky's lawyers must've had a panic attack  

How bad were United though? Wrong line up, wrong set up and wrong subs. Ole is totally clueless. Pogba is a stain on that shirt, lazy, arrogant, no workrate and gave the ball away non stop. He doesn't want to be there, he needs binning off. It's been said before but the club is in a mess.

Martial is rated by some people but he's only ever mustered 17 league goals and is almost 26, Danny Ings has a vastly better record and has played at Southampton and Burnley most of his PL career 

The Glazers, Woodward failing at every level since he was appointed, Ole a Championship manager......no ambition. At the end of the season United got lucky finishing third. They needed a pacey centre back, left back to replace the fat waddler Shaw, a DM, right winger and striker. Yet they've only signed a central midfielder. Car crash stuff.

Kellfire will be along shortly to reveal it's all a considered approach and United are in fact playing a masterplan that'll end with the title and CL. Anyone that disagrees is a Champ Manager fan and knows zero about football


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## chrisd (Sep 20, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Evra is a bit scattergun but that Zaha comment was brilliant. Sky's lawyers must've had a panic attack 

How bad were United though? Wrong line up, wrong set up and wrong subs. Ole is totally clueless. Pogba is a stain on that shirt, lazy, arrogant, no workrate and gave the ball away non stop. He doesn't want to be there, he needs binning off. It's been said before but the club is in a mess.

Martial is rated by some people but he's only ever mustered 17 league goals and is almost 26, Danny Ings has a vastly better record and has played at Southampton and Burnley most of his PL career 

The Glazers, Woodward failing at every level since he was appointed, Ole a Championship manager......no ambition. At the end of the season United got lucky finishing third. They needed a pacey centre back, left back to replace the fat waddler Shaw, a DM, right winger and striker. Yet they've only signed a central midfielder. Car crash stuff.

Kellfire will be along shortly to reveal it's all a considered approach and United are in fact playing a masterplan that'll end with the title and CL. Anyone that disagrees is a Champ Manager fan and knows zero about football 

Click to expand...

Cant disagree with any of that

But then I am a lifelong Palace fan 😁😁😁😁


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## Stuart_C (Sep 20, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Evra is a bit scattergun but that Zaha comment was brilliant. Sky's lawyers must've had a panic attack 

How bad were United though? Wrong line up, wrong set up and wrong subs. Ole is totally clueless. Pogba is a stain on that shirt, lazy, arrogant, no workrate and gave the ball away non stop. He doesn't want to be there, he needs binning off. It's been said before but the club is in a mess.

Martial is rated by some people but he's only ever mustered 17 league goals and is almost 26, Danny Ings has a vastly better record and has played at Southampton and Burnley most of his PL career 

The Glazers, Woodward failing at every level since he was appointed, Ole a Championship manager......no ambition. At the end of the season United got lucky finishing third. They needed a pacey centre back, left back to replace the fat waddler Shaw, a DM, right winger and striker. Yet they've only signed a central midfielder. Car crash stuff.

Kellfire will be along shortly to reveal it's all a considered approach and United are in fact playing a masterplan that'll end with the title and CL. Anyone that disagrees is a Champ Manager fan and knows zero about football 

Click to expand...

I had to rewind it and listen a few times when he said it.  My initial thought was WOW!! IIRC wasnt Evra still there when the alleged affair took place? 

He's a terrible pundit. His comment about smashing up the VAR camera was pathetic, like thatll change the decision 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 20, 2020)

A round of applause for the Crystal Palace away kit 👏. Not quite as good as the wonderfully South American Southampton kit but still a nice change from the norm.

Back to the football, they looked very slick on motd. Hodgson certainly knows how to organise and drill a team.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A round of applause for the Crystal Palace away kit 👏. Not quite as good as the wonderfully *South American Southampton kit* but still a nice change from the norm.

Back to the football, they looked very slick on motd. Hodgson certainly knows how to organise and drill a team.
		
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I really don’t like it, but it’s apparently from our original kits in the last 1800’s?


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2020)

4LEX said:



			You can't prove that kid wrong though, which says it all about you. You're the typical band wagon United fan who believes they've got the best players in every position, Ole is the next Sir Alex and success is just around the corner. Basically you've become Liverpool of the 90's and 00's. Deluded.

Neymar has wasted the peak years of his career behaving like an idiot in a footballing backwater. He's done zero in the CL for PSG and nothing for Brazil. His performances for both in big games have bordered on embarrassing.
		
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I think our squad is quite weak in many areas and that Solskjaer is a terrible manager. 

You’re good at this.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 20, 2020)

Always a good day when utd lose, but ave just seen the penalty and the retake and they are shocking. I don't know which was the worst of the 2 decisions.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Always a good day when utd lose, but ave just seen the penalty and the retake and they are shocking. I don't know which was the worst of the 2 decisions.
		
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Another VAR cock up if that’s a pen ,why wasn’t the West Ham one a penalty.
Seems they have just moved the goalposts and the same refs are making the same mistakes.
Don’t think either was a pen by the way.
As for the keeper off his line , it’s the rule so they all know what to do.
But keepers have been doing that since they were kids, going to be another 1mm decisions all season.
Bit silly imo.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 20, 2020)

Keeping the flag down for an obvious offside.( Kane’s second goal.) 
So if a defender clatters a striker who was clearly off and breaks his leg.
That’s avoidable if the Lino puts his flag up.


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## howbow88 (Sep 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Another VAR cock up if that’s a pen ,why wasn’t the West Ham one a penalty.
Seems they have just moved the goalposts and the same refs are making the same mistakes.
Don’t think either was a pen by the way.
As for the keeper off his line , it’s the rule so they all know what to do.
But keepers have been doing that since they were kids, going to be another 1mm decisions all season.
Bit silly imo.
		
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By the letter of the new laws, I think both decisions were correct. I think these are both fairly poor for the game of football though.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Keeping the flag down for an obvious offside.( Kane’s second goal.)
So if a defender clatters a striker who was clearly off and breaks his leg.
That’s avoidable if the Lino puts his flag up.
		
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I sat take offside away from lino

He just raised flag on Ings.. meant Southampton don't get a corner 

However that was onside. Var won't review that only goals


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 20, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I really don’t like it, but it’s apparently from our original kits in the last 1800’s?
		
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You will probably be back to stripes next season but it was a bold move. I love the away kit in particular, Peru from 1978 😄


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## fundy (Sep 20, 2020)

wonder at what point Saints are going to try and defend Kane assisting to Son lol. Properly clinical apart from the one he was offside


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## Swingalot (Sep 20, 2020)

wilf is rubbish.

pepe £70m, lingard (27 england caps) and Sane (1 season at a club who got relegated and is now worth £50m) are many others I could mention are  all much better players if any top 8 clubs are looking for a skillful attacker 

We'll keep Wilf in SE25 reluctantly....


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## chrisd (Sep 20, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			wilf is rubbish.


We'll keep Wilf in SE25 reluctantly....
		
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I agree entirely, we'd like him to go but if no one wants him I guess that's it


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 20, 2020)

Cheslea sat back with 11 men .
Spoils the game . 10 men on a bus.
But if the ref needs a monitor to tell him that’s a red he should not be reffing in the PL


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## hairball_89 (Sep 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Cheslea* sat back with 11 men .*
Spoils the game . 10 men on a bus.
But if the ref needs a monitor to tell him that’s a red he should not be reffing in the PL
		
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Maybe, but when one of them is Kepa you have to have a giggle.

Gini quietly brilliant again. For all the talk beforehand Fabinho has been great at CB. Made defending Werner look easy. 

As for Chelsea? Spend £50m on a top class centre forward and then play him off the left against a makeshift CB? Bizarre. The keeper? well! Maybe they need to spend another £300m in January?!


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## davemc1 (Sep 20, 2020)

‘Sake! If gini scores that we go top. Barcelona my arse!! 
🤣🤣

Chelsea should stop messin about with crap keepers an go spend £70oddmil like we did. 
Oh, hang on a min...


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 20, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Maybe, but when one of them is Kepa you have to have a giggle.

Gini quietly brilliant again. For all the talk beforehand Fabinho has been great at CB. Made defending Werner look easy. 

As for Chelsea? Spend £50m on a top class centre forward and then play him off the left against a makeshift CB? Bizarre. The keeper? well! Maybe they need to spend another £300m in January?!
		
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I just think if you go one down at half time your still in the game with 11 men.
Just can’t understand the challenge he was away but still got the keeper to beat, not the end of the world 1-0.
Thought Chelsea played quite well second half.
Alison made some great saves.
But the red Changed the game, can’t play Liverpool with 10 men.
Gin I played well but only scores when wearing a Orange shirt he could have had a hatrick today.
The keeper well what can you say, but good from Mane.
Fabiano brilliant today.


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 20, 2020)

And Brighton go to Newcastle and play them off the park .Not many sides will be doing that to the toon .


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## hairball_89 (Sep 20, 2020)

Norrin Radd said:



			And Brighton go to Newcastle and play them off the park .Not many sides will be doing that to the toon .
		
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Absolutely. My seagulls & redmen double was a great shout!

Was *almost* annoyed at the saved pen, as I also had a Liverpool with w/ BTTS!


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## davemc1 (Sep 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Cheslea sat back with 11 men .
Spoils the game . 10 men on a bus.
But if the ref needs 2233017, member: 18970"]I just think if you go one down at half time your still in the game with 11 men.
Just can’t understand the challenge he was away but still got the keeper to beat, not the end of the world 1-0.
Thought Chelsea played quite well second half.
Alison made some great saves.
But the red Changed the game, can’t play Liverpool with 10 men.
Gin I played well but only scores when wearing a Orange shirt he could have had a hatrick today.
The keeper well what can you say, but good from Mane.
Fabiano brilliant today.
		
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Norrin Radd said:



			And Brighton go to Newcastle and play them off the park .Not many sides will be doing that to the toon .
		
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🤣🤣 but well done on the win! Enjoy lamperty while you can 👍🏻


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## Orikoru (Sep 20, 2020)

I didn't get to see much of it but wow, that Spurs result was a huge surprise. Southampton must be in dire straights if we managed to create 5 chances let alone 5 goals. And lots of people (including me) have tipped them to be decent this season. Did my fantasy team wonders letting Ings have two as well, since I have him and Kane.


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## SaintHacker (Sep 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I didn't get to see much of it but wow, that Spurs result was a huge surprise. Southampton must be in dire straights if we managed to create 5 chances let alone 5 goals. And lots of people (including me) have tipped them to be decent this season. Did my fantasy team wonders letting Ings have two as well, since I have him and Kane. 

Click to expand...

Crazy how a team that did so well at the back end of last season can turn so crap in a short time. We're notoriously slow starters, hopefully today was a good early kick up the backside!


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## SaintHacker (Sep 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A round of applause for the Crystal Palace away kit 👏. Not quite as good as the wonderfully South American Southampton kit but still a nice change from the norm.

.
		
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History lesson time, its actually a wonderfully Sotonian south american kit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_William_Miller


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I didn't get to see much of it but wow, that Spurs result was a huge surprise. Southampton must be in dire straights if we managed to create 5 chances let alone 5 goals. And lots of people (including me) have tipped them to be decent this season. Did my fantasy team wonders letting Ings have two as well, since I have him and Kane. 

Click to expand...

Saints played well first half , but missed several easy chances.
Bad finishing straight at the keeper ,but some very good saves as well from Loris.
But they defended like a pub team second half.
Kane and Son took them apart.
Fabulous finishing from Son..


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## Orikoru (Sep 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Saints played well first half , but missed several easy chances.
Bad finishing straight at the keeper ,but some very good saves as well from Loris.
But they defended like a pub team second half.
Kane and Son took them apart.
Fabulous finishing from Son..
		
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He is an unreal finisher. Everyone goes on about how we need a back-up striker, and it's not that I disagree, but what striker could we ever sign that's happy to sit on the bench and has better finishing than Son?? I don't think there is anyone.


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## 3-off-the-tee (Sep 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He is an unreal finisher. Everyone goes on about how we need a back-up striker, and it's not that I disagree, but what striker could we ever sign that's happy to sit on the bench and has better finishing than Son?? I don't think there is anyone.
		
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I know it’s a cliche but Son never looks like missing when he is 1v1, fantastic player.

Kane’s assist for his 3rd was unbelievable today, it’s an area of his game he doesn’t get enough credit for usually.


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## Orikoru (Sep 20, 2020)

3-off-the-tee said:



			I know it’s a cliche but Son never looks like missing when he is 1v1, fantastic player.

Kane’s assist for his 3rd was unbelievable today, it’s an area of his game he doesn’t get enough credit for usually.
		
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Thing I love about Son is that he's equally good on his left or his right. Makes it so hard for defenders to block a shot when he can go either side. And Kane has a terrific all round game, yeah. Him and Son usually work well together with Son running off Kane as he goes deeper, obviously never better than they did today.


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## Piece (Sep 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Thing I love about Son is that he's equally good on his left or his right. Makes it so hard for defenders to block a shot when he can go either side. And Kane has a terrific all round game, yeah. Him and Son usually work well together with Son running off Kane as he goes deeper, obviously never better than they did today. 

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Bale left, Son right, Kane middle. Tasty. Just need 5 more decent players to go with them


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 20, 2020)

Piece said:



			Bale left, Son right, Kane middle. Tasty. Just need 5 more decent players to go with them 

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I think Kane plays his best a bit deeper but still gets in the box.
Loses his marker then but you need runners to fill the spaces.
Bale and Son would do that.


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## GG26 (Sep 20, 2020)

No one has mentioned the team at the top of the league, so I will put that right.

Leicester looked good this evening and Thomas Castagne looks a great signing.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 21, 2020)

No booking for the dive from Sterling?
He has started early.


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## Piece (Sep 21, 2020)

City look quite tasty in that 45 mins.


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## Reemul (Sep 22, 2020)

Poor finishing from Wolves in the second half cost them at least a point.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2020)

3 west ham staff / players fail a pre match covid test apparently.

Diop
Cullen
Moyes

Temp test rather than actual covid test


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## Fade and Die (Sep 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			3 west ham staff / players fail a pre match covid test apparently.

Diop
Cullen
Moyes

Temp test rather than actual covid test
		
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Yes I saw this.....it's the first time West Ham have had 3 positive results for a long time. 😁


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 23, 2020)

Orient had their own issues recently. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/21/leyton-orient-covid-19-carabao-cup-tottenham-spurs One of our consultants is the club doctor and apparently the Orient training facility was inspected yesterday (assume by government and FA officals) in what he described as a CQC hospital inspection and a lot of issues to the point where they are looking to close down the training facility today (not sure if they have now) and so Orient won't be able to train or at least need to look for somewhere that complies.


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2020)

Pickford putting on a clinic of errors tonight lol


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## Stuart_C (Sep 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			Pickford putting on a clinic of errors tonight lol
		
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He’s consistent 😀


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## Kellfire (Sep 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Given his reputation as a tosser I'd be taking his accusation with a pinch of salt until it's backed up by someone else. Front the footage you can see he was red carded for punching someone in the back of the head who was arguing with a different player. So not as a direct reaction to anything said to him.
		
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So it's now been proven that he was called a monkey. Bad old Neymar, though, how dare he walk around being racially abused...


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 24, 2020)

fundy said:



			Pickford putting on a clinic of errors tonight lol
		
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If only he knew were row Z was.


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## Kellfire (Sep 24, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			If only he knew were row Z was.

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*insert joke about Row Z cars here*


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## Orikoru (Sep 24, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			So it's now been proven that he was called a monkey. Bad old Neymar, though, how dare he walk around being racially abused...
		
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If it's now proven then obviously they should throw the back at the guy who said it. But what I said still stands - Neymar has created his own reputation and can't be surprised if people don't immediately side with him on his word alone.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 24, 2020)

Shocking from Pickford. I praised him after he was so good against Spurs, but that was awful. I don’t know if it’s lack of concentration or what, but a PL goalkeeper shouldn’t make errors like he’s prone to as often as he does.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Shocking from Pickford. I praised him after he was so good against Spurs, but that was awful. I don’t know if it’s lack of concentration or what, but a PL goalkeeper shouldn’t make errors like he’s prone to as often as he does.
		
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I don't know what our back up keepers are like but it could be time to throw one of them in for a few games. If they are not good enough, why are they there if they aren't?, then get Romero in from Utd. Not expensive, available, wouldn't have to move, solid keeper. Pickford's errors are becoming too consistent. He is going Joe Hart on us


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 24, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't know what our back up keepers are like but it could be time to throw one of them in for a few games. If they are not good enough, why are they there if they aren't?, then get Romero in from Utd. Not expensive, available, wouldn't have to move, solid keeper. Pickford's errors are becoming too consistent. He is going Joe Hart on us 

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England keepers - thats so 70's. 

Back in the day we had a number of great keepers, generally acknowledged as some of the best in Europe, but are nowhere near it now.

Has coaching changed so much, natural ability, or what is it? Granted, we have always been behind Europe in defenders and keepers playing out from the back and that is a large part of the goalkeepers skill set nowadays, but is that one of the main reasons?


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			So it's now been proven that he was called a monkey. Bad old Neymar, though, how dare he walk around being racially abused...
		
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But does that give him the right to punch someone in the back of the head.
Whoever said the Monkey insult should be dealt with seriously.
But retaliation has always been dealt with red cards.


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## Orikoru (Sep 24, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			England keepers - thats so 70's. 

Back in the day we had a number of great keepers, generally acknowledged as some of the best in Europe, but are nowhere near it now.

Has coaching changed so much, natural ability, or what is it? Granted, we have always been behind Europe in defenders and keepers playing out from the back and that is a large part of the goalkeepers skill set nowadays, but is that one of the main reasons?
		
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I think you're right. When you hear the phrase 'good shot stopper' these days it sounds like damning with faint praise - but that should be the fundamental basic requirement. It should be a given that a Prem goalie is a good shot stopper. As you say, I think scouting and training seems to be after this all round goalie trying to find the next Ederson, but in trying to find one who can ping it around with his feet, surely you end up compromising on actual goalkeeping ability at times. It's the exact same with centre backs. Remember when top clubs centre backs were all world class units, now you have a team like City playing someone like John Stones at the back. It's a head scratcher.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			England keepers - thats so 70's. 
e 
Back in the day we had a number of great keepers, generally acknowledged as some of the best in Europe, but are nowhere near it now.

Has coaching changed so much, natural ability, or what is it? Granted, we have always been behind Europe in defenders and keepers playing out from the back and that is a large part of the goalkeepers skill set nowadays, but is that one of the main reasons?
		
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Kids don’t play footy in the park anymore.
That’s all we did when I was a lad.
The grass is to long most of the time.
Kids with talent are picked up very young and coached to death ,but imo the coaches are killing their natural talent to play the way they want them to.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			England keepers - thats so 70's. 

Back in the day we had a number of great keepers, generally acknowledged as some of the best in Europe, but are nowhere near it now.

Has coaching changed so much, natural ability, or what is it? Granted, we have always been behind Europe in defenders and keepers playing out from the back and that is a large part of the goalkeepers skill set nowadays, but is that one of the main reasons?
		
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It is quite sad isn't it? Getting in an overseas keeper would barely have registered in the 70's, just about came into it in the 80's, Grobbelar being the obvious one. A keeper would come through the ranks, there was an endless line of them across clubs. If you needed another you dipped into div 2 or 3, showing my age there, and picked one out, put them in the reserves for a year and then gave them the shirt. I find it hugely disappointing that many teams seem have to overseas keepers as their back ups, whether young lads brought in or older ones finishing their careers with a nice pay day. I'd rather have a British back up, 20-24 range. If they can't break through by 24, and show no sign of it, then move them on and get the next young lad in. I don't expect them to be local any more, deep sigh, but surely from within the country there must be talent.

Keepers get their own bespoke coaches now so I don't think they are lacking there. Maybe kids don't want to be keepers? Do they all want to play out and so the pool to pick from is not as large? I'm not sure what the reasoning is. Hopefully we are just going through a dip and the next wave will come in and change the thinking.


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## Kellfire (Sep 24, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			But does that give him the right to punch someone in the back of the head.
Whoever said the Monkey insult should be dealt with seriously.
But retaliation has always been dealt with red cards.
		
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It’s more the vilification and some people (not just on here) did seem to take the attitude of, “Oh, it’s Neymar, he’s lying”.


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## Orikoru (Sep 24, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			It’s more the vilification and some people (not just on here) did seem to take the attitude of, *“Oh, it’s Neymar, he’s lying”*.
		
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Again though, that's because of his reputation isn't it?? And he has created his own reputation with his behaviour.


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## 4LEX (Sep 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			If it's now proven then obviously they should throw the back at the guy who said it. But what I said still stands - Neymar has created his own reputation and can't be surprised if people don't immediately side with him on his word alone.
		
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Spot on.

Neymar has behaved like an arrogant clown taking the piss ever since he signed for PSG, he thrives on getting a reaction. Doesn't make this right (if proved) and the defender should be punished. However, Neymar once again acting the victim when he's played a key part in the situation. Showboating, nothing performance, getting angry, slapping someone and then when a player responds he cries like a baby.


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## 4LEX (Sep 24, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Yes I saw this.....it's the first time West Ham have had 3 positive results for a long time. 😁
		
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## Beezerk (Sep 24, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			It’s more the vilification and some people (not just on here) did seem to take the attitude of, “Oh, it’s Neymar, he’s lying”.
		
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I think it was more "Oh it's Neymar, what a snidey little ball end he is".


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 24, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is quite sad isn't it? Getting in an overseas keeper would barely have registered in the 70's, just about came into it in the 80's, Grobbelar being the obvious one. A keeper would come through the ranks, there was an endless line of them across clubs. If you needed another you dipped into div 2 or 3, showing my age there, and picked one out, put them in the reserves for a year and then gave them the shirt. I find it hugely disappointing that many teams seem have to overseas keepers as their back ups, whether young lads brought in or older ones finishing their careers with a nice pay day. I'd rather have a British back up, 20-24 range. If they can't break through by 24, and show no sign of it, then move them on and get the next young lad in. I don't expect them to be local any more, deep sigh, but surely from within the country there must be talent.

Keepers get their own bespoke coaches now so I don't think they are lacking there. Maybe kids don't want to be keepers? Do they all want to play out and so the pool to pick from is not as large? I'm not sure what the reasoning is. Hopefully we are just going through a dip and the next wave will come in and change the thinking.
		
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Wasnt there a time in the 70's when we had Clemence, Shilton, Parkes, Corrigan and more vying for the England jersey, may have been some other good uns as well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Wasnt there a time in the 70's when we had Clemence, Shilton, Parkes, Corrigan and more vying for the England jersey, may have been some other good uns as well.
		
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All 4 of those were top draw. I'd have any of them now, although not at their current ages . Corrigan in particular was unlucky not to have made more England appearances. He was one of those non flashy keepers who just got on with it and never let you down.


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## fundy (Sep 24, 2020)

Pretty sure Everton fans would take Neville Southall at his prime currently, hed certainly have put it in row Z


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2020)

fundy said:



			Pretty sure Everton fans would take Neville Southall at his prime currently, hed certainly have put it in row Z 

Click to expand...

There are few teams who would not take him at his prime. He was a tremendous keeper in his day, certainly the best Everton have ever had.

Nothing wrong with a bit of row Z . More need to do that but I suspect the edict comes from the manager as much as the keeper choosing to do it.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

fundy said:



			Pretty sure Everton fans would take Neville Southall at his prime currently, hed certainly have put it in row Z 

Click to expand...

Yes a great keeper


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			It’s more the vilification and some people (not just on here) did seem to take the attitude of, “Oh, it’s Neymar, he’s lying”.
		
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Yes never understood why people hate players based on media hype and what the press print.
But have to say if only half they print about him is true he’s not liked for a reason.
He may be like Patrick Reed and thrive on the aggro.
No excuse for racism though.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes a great keeper
		
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A bit of fun. Nev is clearly our top man if you create a best ever team. For you guys, Clemence, Grobelaar or Allison? Who do you choose?

Apologies to keepers prior to this, I can't comment on them. If you remember a cracker from the black and white days then include them.


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## SteveW86 (Sep 24, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A bit of fun. Nev is clearly our top man if you create a best ever team. For you guys, Clemence, Grobelaar or Allison? Who do you choose?

Apologies to keepers prior to this, I can't comment on them. If you remember a cracker from the black and white days then include them.
		
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Tricky question at answer surely as the teams they played in play in a totally different way. Would Allison be as good if he had to accurately pass a brick?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Tricky question at answer surely as the teams they played in play in a totally different way. Would Allison be as good if he had to accurately pass a brick?
		
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I get your point but if you look at them primarily as the blokes who stop the ball going in the net, catch the crosses, organise the defence etc who would you want between the sticks?


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## SteveW86 (Sep 24, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get your point but if you look at them primarily as the blokes who stop the ball going in the net, catch the crosses, organise the defence etc who would you want between the sticks?
		
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Oh I agree, I always find it difficult comparing individuals who play in a team sport when styles of play vary so much. Being 34 my knowledge of anything pre premiership is pretty much non existent so I cant really give a proper answer.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Oh I agree, I always find it difficult comparing individuals who play in a team sport when styles of play vary so much. Being 34 my knowledge of anything pre premiership is pretty much non existent so I cant really give a proper answer.
		
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It is a proper pub question with no real answer, just for fun. If we stick with Liverpool then Phil Neale would be a contender for the right full back position. Not sure if he ever overlapped in his career but not many ever got the better of him, one of the best penalty takers there has been. Comparing him to TAA is hard as he is all about going forward with defending almost secondary. Both very good players in entirely different eras, playing different styles.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A bit of fun. Nev is clearly our top man if you create a best ever team. For you guys, Clemence, Grobelaar or Allison? Who do you choose?

Apologies to keepers prior to this, I can't comment on them. If you remember a cracker from the black and white days then include them.
		
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Tommy Lawrence !
I would take Clemence all day.
Very hard to choose but saw him every week , he just didn’t make mistakes.
Or I can’t remember them more likely.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is a proper pub question with no real answer, just for fun. If we stick with Liverpool then Phil Neale would be a contender for the right full back position. Not sure if he ever overlapped in his career but not many ever got the better of him, one of the best penalty takers there has been. Comparing him to TAA is hard as he is all about going forward with defending almost secondary. Both very good players in entirely different eras, playing different styles.
		
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Neal was pretty good going forward but no TAA.
But you can’t compare them as defenders Neal hands down.
TAA plays more like a winger ( remember them) I think he would make a great midfielder if he had no defensive duties.
Alan Hansen is my next answer !


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Oh I agree, I always find it difficult comparing individuals who play in a team sport when styles of play vary so much. Being 34 my knowledge of anything pre premiership is pretty much non existent so I cant really give a proper answer.
		
Click to expand...

Some great football before the PL
Proper tackling.
Everyone knew what handball was.
Everyone knew the offside rule.
Muddy pitches. Jumpers for goal posts.( sorry ) that’s a lie.
No diving , except F Lee of City.
The Boys pen.
Good old days. But very hard to compare to modern footballers if you brush their shirt by accident they go down screaming.


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## Orikoru (Sep 24, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Some great football before the PL
Proper tackling.
*Everyone knew what handball was.
Everyone knew the offside rule.*
Muddy pitches. Jumpers for goal posts.( sorry ) that’s a lie.
No diving , except F Lee of City.
The Boys pen.
Good old days. But very hard to compare to modern footballers if you brush their shirt by accident they go down screaming.
		
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I used to laugh at the 'footy was better in my day' brigade, but I do long for the days in bold.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Tommy Lawrence !
I would take Clemence all day.
Very hard to choose but saw him every week , he just didn’t make mistakes.
Or I can’t remember them more likely.
		
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I mentioned black and white as my grandad would talk about players from the 60's who I knew nothing about yet would have to be in the discussion. I covered myself for your Tommy Lawrence answer .

Clemence was a class act and apart from his infamous Scotland incident I remember him in the same way. As you say, maybe it is memory, fewer cameras etc but I don't think so. Grobelaar changed the mould and so was different again. I can't remember a keeper before him for coming out for crosses in the way he did. He was tremendously athletic.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I used to laugh at the 'footy was better in my day' brigade, but I do long for the days in bold. 

Click to expand...

That makes you a member now then !
It wasn’t better it was different.
Slower definitely.
But I do think all the rule changes and VAR are putting people off.
The handball rule is a joke now imo.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I mentioned black and white as my grandad would talk about players from the 60's who I knew nothing about yet would have to be in the discussion. I covered myself for your Tommy Lawrence answer .

Clemence was a class act and apart from his infamous Scotland incident I remember him in the same way. As you say, maybe it is memory, fewer cameras etc but I don't think so. Grobelaar changed the mould and so was different again. I can't remember a keeper before him for coming out for crosses in the way he did. He was tremendously athletic.
		
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Yes he was .
And with all them keepers we were very successful.
This shows how important a good keeper is and Allison is just as important as VVD imo to our success the last few years.
Still love to have Rush up front and Souness in this team that would be awesome.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It wasn’t better it was different.
Slower definitely.
		
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I saw an old Big Match special during lock down, I posted about it at the time. It was slower, teams did not retain posession anywhere near as well but blimey I loved it. No tippy tappy stuff. Balls up to the big man if no pass was on, 2 up front, defenders who defend and wouldn't dream of trying to be too clever. Players went past others but did so at a steadier pace. They were a bit chunkier as well .

As you say, different.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw an old Big Match special during lock down, I posted about it at the time. It was slower, teams did not retain posession anywhere near as well but blimey I loved it. No tippy tappy stuff. Balls up to the big man if no pass was on, 2 up front, defenders who defend and wouldn't dream of trying to be too clever. Players went past others but did so at a steadier pace. They were a bit chunkier as well .

As you say, different.
		
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I still have my dads old ball.
Lace up and it weighs a ton when it’s wet.
The ball and better pitches have been the biggest difference imo.
These modern balls are like balloons and they do move a lot making keepers look foolish at times .
So I do have some sympathy with them.

That was the five pints before the game on fri night.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 24, 2020)

Some great keepers in the 70's and 80's

Banks
Shilton
Clemence
Wilson
Southall

Five to start with but you can easily double that I'd have thought


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

Some great stuff from Liverpool tonight.
Good finishing as well.
Only disappointing thing was that kit , that’s horrible blue camouflage.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 24, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A bit of fun. Nev is clearly our top man if you create a best ever team. For you guys, Clemence, Grobelaar or Allison? Who do you choose?

Apologies to keepers prior to this, I can't comment on them. If you remember a cracker from the black and white days then include them.
		
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I was a kid when clemmo was in goal, so hard to appreciate him, but he was in the team who only let 16 in in a 42 game season, and rarely made a mistake and possibly coined the phrase, "had nothing to do for 89 minutes then made a good save when he was needed". I though Grobelaar was great and under appreciated by some, He did make mistakes, but by coming for so many crosses, cut out a lot of danger that cant be measured. Brilliant entertainer as well.

Pepe Reina's first 2 seasons were great as well, Alison could be a great, also. He is hardly out of position and generally makes it look easy.

BTW Steve Nicol was a fantastic RB, as was Veggard Heggem. Phil Neal has 4 European cup winners medals though and read today that he played something like 487 games on the run, which is mad.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Some great keepers in the 70's and 80's

Banks
Shilton
Clemence
Wilson
Southall

Five to start with but you can easily double that I'd have thought
		
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Peter Bonnetti
Alex Stepney.


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## Slime (Sep 24, 2020)

Peter Bonetti?
Didn't he knock England out of the 1970 World Cup?


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2020)

Slime said:



			Peter Bonetti?
Didn't he knock England out of the 1970 World Cup?  

Click to expand...

Not on his own!


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## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2020)

fundy said:



			Pretty sure Everton fans would take Neville Southall at his prime currently, hed certainly have put it in row Z 

Click to expand...

*Neville Southall*



Legend has it, that when Neville Southall started out with Bury, he was banned from training with the rest of the squad because they were getting a bit despondent that he was ruining their shooting practice by saving everything thrown at him. But that was Neville Southall all over - even in training he never gave less than 100%.

A former hod-carrier and dustman in Llandudno, Southall began life as a centre half. He was good enough to have trials with Crewe Alexandra and Bolton Wanderers but never made the grade. Instead, he went between the posts for Llandudno Swifts and quickly moved up the football ladder. After brief spells with Conway United and Bangor City, he joined non-league Winsford where he was spotted by Bury, who paid £6000 for his services. 

After just 39 games for the Shakers, Southall was snapped up by Everton, completing an amazing transformation - in just less than two years, he had gone from working on a building site to playing First Division football. For the next sixteen years he would remain the Toffees' first-choice keeper, experiencing all their highs and lows.

The honours came thick and fast during those early days. Everton were experiencing something of a revival under Howard Kendall and within the space of three won the League, FA Cup and the Cup Winners' Cup. Indeed, Southall was voted Player of the Year in 1985 when the Blues won the championship but the Heysel disaster cut short Everton's dominance as the team broke up. And while others went on to enjoy big money moves to the continent, Southall stayed behind, clocking up the appearances.

Although successful on the domestic front, the big Welshman enjoyed little success on the international scene and although he was an established World Class player, he never played in a major tournament. The closest he got was in 1993, when Wales narrowly missed out on World Cup qualification. Nevertheless, he racked up 91 caps - a national record.

Southall played over 700 times for Everton - a club record - and was the first player to make 200 appearances in the Premiership. As he matured with age, many expected him to retire gracefully, but Big Nev confounded the critics and just kept on going, adding a second FA Cup winners medal to his collection in 1995. But time soon caught up with Southall. After loan spells with Southend United and Stoke City, plus a spell with Torquay United, he finally retired before making a comeback for Bradford City at the ripe old age of 42 in the Premiership!


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## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2020)

This guy was one of my favourites, forget he was sold by the spurs to there rivals.
*Pat Jennings*



If ever there was a goalkeeper that could be described as atypical of the breed, it was Pat Jennings. Unorthodox, unflappable, respectable and polite, Jennings commanded his penalty box with an air of nonchalance and calmness that would shame Peter Schmeichel into retirement. Yet despite never receiving any formal kind of coaching - or even because of it - he become one of the greatest goalkeepers the game has ever seen.

Born in Newry, Northern Ireland, Jennings grew up playing Gaelic Football before signing for his local side as a teenager. He first caught the eye playing in a Youth Tournament at Wembley at the age of 17 and was signed by Watford shortly afterwards. His subsequent performances for the Hornets earned him International recognition and a transfer to Tottenham Hotspur in 1964.

There he arguably enjoyed the most successful spell of his career, winning the FA Cup, two League Cups and the UEFA Cup in quick succession. However, believing he was past his best, Spurs foolishly sold him to local rivals Arsenal for £40,000 in 1977, where he enjoyed further success and played on for another eight seasons. He appeared in three more FA Cup Finals and a Cup Winners Cup Final before capping his career with an appearance at the World Cup Finals, where he played in the Northern Ireland side that unexpectedly beat host nation Spain to progress to the Quarter Finals.

Such was his stance in the game that he came out of retirement to play in the 1986 finals in Mexico, winning his record 119th cap on his 41st birthday against Brazil.

One of the reasons he was so successful was down to the size of his hands - which were as big as a pair of satellite dishes (or thereabouts). His 'Lurgan shovels', as manager Billy Bingham liked to call them, helped him pull off spectacular one-handed saves which didn't see possible and he had the habit of breaking the hearts of many a centre forward by clawing the ball out of the air single-handedly and holding onto it.

But it wasn't just about his hands - it was his whole approach to the game. A late starter, his lack of formal training meant he avoided the bad habits and strict codes of conducts of his predecessors, and he broke the mould by willingly using other parts of his body to keep the ball out of the net. He was the first to use his feet to good effect and underlined the strength of his kicking by scoring from a goal kick during the 1967 Charity Shield match against Manchester United.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 25, 2020)

I didn't mention Pat Jennings as the chat originally was English keepers but it is only right that Tashy brought him into the conversation. Immense keeper, hands like buckets and seemingly an absolute gent to boot. He had a voice that should have been used for voiceovers, deep and soothing.

If ever anyone if collecting a list of 'greatest' players to play in the top division of the English leagues then he would be in there. How you choose between the likes of him, Nev, Schmeichel, Clemence, Van der Saar I am not really sure. Some great names there.


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## hairball_89 (Sep 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			...
If ever anyone if collecting a list of 'greatest' players to play in the top division of the English leagues then he would be in there. How you choose between the likes of him, Nev, *Schmeichel*, Clemence, Van der Saar I am not really sure. Some great names there.
		
Click to expand...

As a 30 year old Liverpool fan, it pains me to say it, but he is easily the best keeper I've seen in the PL. Immense and consistent. Van Der Sar, Cech, Alisson all a level below atm, although the latter needs probably 2-3 more seasons in the same vein as his last 2 to really be classed as among the best.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 25, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			As a 30 year old Liverpool fan, it pains me to say it, but he is easily the best keeper I've seen in the PL. Immense and consistent. Van Der Sar, Cech, Alisson all a level below atm, although the latter needs probably 2-3 more seasons in the same vein as his last 2 to really be classed as among the best.
		
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In terms of PL era I would agree with you. Yes, it hurts me too


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## SteveW86 (Sep 25, 2020)

I saw the young Liverpool RB who played last night has blacked out all of his social media due to abuse he recieved on the back of his performance. I didnt watch the game, but apparantely made just 1 error in a 7-2 win. What is wrong with people?!


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 25, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I saw the young Liverpool RB who played last night has blacked out all of his social media due to abuse he recieved on the back of his performance. I didnt watch the game, but apparantely made just 1 error in a 7-2 win. What is wrong with people?!
		
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I thought it was from a previous performance, but still doesnt excuse the fact.

Some divvies should serve lifetime / 5 year / 1 year / 6 month bans for disgusting trolling.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 25, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I saw the young Liverpool RB who played last night has blacked out all of his social media due to abuse he recieved on the back of his performance. I didnt watch the game, but apparantely made just 1 error in a 7-2 win. What is wrong with people?!
		
Click to expand...

The reason he’s in the team for games like this is to learn from those mistakes.
Everyone makes mistakes, 
Even VVD made mistakes this year havnt seen any abuse of him???
Some people are idiots And probably nothing else to do.
I thought he played really well so did the other young lads.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 25, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			As a 30 year old Liverpool fan, it pains me to say it, but he is easily the best keeper I've seen in the PL. Immense and consistent. Van Der Sar, Cech, Alisson all a level below atm, although the latter needs probably 2-3 more seasons in the same vein as his last 2 to really be classed as among the best.
		
Click to expand...

You should of seen his Dad, he was even better.


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## fundy (Sep 25, 2020)

I see a Gillingham Town player has tested positive. Their game tomorrow cancelled, their EFL game in the week cancelled, their game next weekend cancelled and theyve been told to shut their training facilities for 14 days!!!!

Do wonder just how much longer football will be continuing, especially in the lower leagues


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## Kellfire (Sep 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



*Neville Southall*



Legend has it, that when Neville Southall started out with Bury, he was banned from training with the rest of the squad because they were getting a bit despondent that he was ruining their shooting practice by saving everything thrown at him. But that was Neville Southall all over - even in training he never gave less than 100%.

A former hod-carrier and dustman in Llandudno, Southall began life as a centre half. He was good enough to have trials with Crewe Alexandra and Bolton Wanderers but never made the grade. Instead, he went between the posts for Llandudno Swifts and quickly moved up the football ladder. After brief spells with Conway United and Bangor City, he joined non-league Winsford where he was spotted by Bury, who paid £6000 for his services.

After just 39 games for the Shakers, Southall was snapped up by Everton, completing an amazing transformation - in just less than two years, he had gone from working on a building site to playing First Division football. For the next sixteen years he would remain the Toffees' first-choice keeper, experiencing all their highs and lows.

The honours came thick and fast during those early days. Everton were experiencing something of a revival under Howard Kendall and within the space of three won the League, FA Cup and the Cup Winners' Cup. Indeed, Southall was voted Player of the Year in 1985 when the Blues won the championship but the Heysel disaster cut short Everton's dominance as the team broke up. And while others went on to enjoy big money moves to the continent, Southall stayed behind, clocking up the appearances.

Although successful on the domestic front, the big Welshman enjoyed little success on the international scene and although he was an established World Class player, he never played in a major tournament. The closest he got was in 1993, when Wales narrowly missed out on World Cup qualification. Nevertheless, he racked up 91 caps - a national record.

Southall played over 700 times for Everton - a club record - and was the first player to make 200 appearances in the Premiership. As he matured with age, many expected him to retire gracefully, but Big Nev confounded the critics and just kept on going, adding a second FA Cup winners medal to his collection in 1995. But time soon caught up with Southall. After loan spells with Southend United and Stoke City, plus a spell with Torquay United, he finally retired before making a comeback for Bradford City at the ripe old age of 42 in the Premiership!
		
Click to expand...





love this.


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2020)

wow lucky lucky United


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 26, 2020)

The woodwork got a right hammering at the amex and if any luck at all had gone Brighton's way it could have been a rout  of utd today , as it is they got a very lucky penalty scored with the last kick of the game , from a corner that should have been a goal kick as the ball was out of play when a red player thought he had kept it in . Unfortunately nobody saw it and it wasn't until after the game that it was spotted.
Lucky lucky utd ☹️


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## pauljames87 (Sep 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			wow lucky lucky United
		
Click to expand...

Very lucky with the woodwork but then woodwork is off target so need to improve shooting 

Pen was clear handball that would be missed in previous years


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## SteveW86 (Sep 26, 2020)

Forget Fergie time, we now have Ole time where they can restart the game to give Utd that one last chance.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 26, 2020)

Hard won 3 points, very professional performance. Good first half, second half was largely Palace without Pickford really having to make a save. The sort of game you need to win to have a good season.


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## Slime (Sep 26, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Forget Fergie time, we now have Ole time where they can restart the game to give Utd that one last chance.
		
Click to expand...


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2020)

Boing Boing lol


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## Piece (Sep 26, 2020)

Morecambe's defence has reappeared in a Chelsea kit! 🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 26, 2020)

Chelsea 😱😱


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## adam6177 (Sep 26, 2020)

Incredible start to the wba Chelsea game.... You'd think spending £220m would get them to 40 points this season?


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## Piece (Sep 26, 2020)

Chelsea will probably still win this




Maybe 😂


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## davemc1 (Sep 26, 2020)

Franks half time team talk... 

Lads we’re playing well, we’re still in this. If it wasn’t for them scoring 3 we’d be on for a point


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## Orikoru (Sep 26, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Franks half time team talk...

Lads we’re playing well, we’re still in this. *If it wasn’t for them scoring 3 we’d be on for a point*

Click to expand...

Well he'd have been right then one way or another!


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2020)

big 3 pts for Saints that but 2 poor sides (with the exception of Ings) on that evidence


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## 4LEX (Sep 26, 2020)

What a bizarre couple of games......

I won't dig out Ole or United too much but it's clear as day they're badly coached, have no system and totally rudderless. A farce restarting the game after the final whistle for a penalty. A circus that sums that club up right now. How can you play a left winger upfront for so long and a striker on the right wing. No pace in central midfield or defence at all......bizzare.

Chelsea are similar to United, decent players but a manager that looks like he's about to be found out. Lucky at Brighton, outclassed by Liverpool and a nothing showing against probably the worst team in the league. He started out OK but since lockdown Chelsea have looked muddled. Possibly too early to judge this season as so many new arrivals will take time to gel but it doesn't look good.

It's getting boring with City and Liverpool, can we get Poch back and someone like Nagelsmann in the league. Wave goodbye to former club heros and replace with proper managers?

Respect to Ancelloti, fantastic start. Picking a system and buying players that fit it might catch on one day


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## Orikoru (Sep 26, 2020)

Just saw Roy's words on the handball rule on match of the day. Bravo sir! More figures in the game need to speak out like he's done.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Franks half time team talk...

Lads we’re playing well, we’re still in this. If it wasn’t for them scoring 3 we’d be on for a point
		
Click to expand...

I reckon he said look guys WBA can't defend for toffee.. we can easily still win this 

Yes cheslea looked awful going down by 3 but think it's worse wba unable to hold.onto a 3 goal lead at home. Terrible team. Very poor manager.


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## howbow88 (Sep 27, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Hard won 3 points, very professional performance. Good first half, second half was largely Palace without Pickford really having to make a save. The sort of game you need to win to have a good season.
		
Click to expand...

You looked decent, but I can't help but think that a draw would have been a fair result. 

That decision was disgraceful. We were lucky with VAR last week, unlucky this week, so it has evened itself out... But in terms of football, VAR feels like it has been put in to just artificially create drama. 

At least when refs made mistakes before, they had the speed of game as an excuse. Now, barmy laws and a set of overly officious officials have led to a sport that is slowly becoming a farce. 

What's more, yesterday's decision doesn't even tally up for me with the new laws... Although I didn't agree with the penalty we were given last week, I could see how it was given with the new laws in place. Other than Ward standing there with his arms behind his back, I don't see what he could have done there. 

The position he was in, and how he reacted to the ball, just didn't tick any of the boxes with regards to giving a penalty. 

Joke.


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## howbow88 (Sep 27, 2020)

Aside from VAR nonsense, I'm really struggling with watching games without a crowd. Canned crowd noise is dreadful, as is the echoes of silence without it. 

I've been a season ticket holder for the last 16 years, and done 50+ away grounds in that time. TV viewing always felt a bit weird for me for the reason that I was usually there anyway, but now it feels even more alien and so removed from my normal football experience. 

VAR is just the cherry on the cake of disappointment


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## Fish (Sep 27, 2020)

I can’t see any fans being allowed in for all of this season!


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## chrisd (Sep 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Just saw Roy's words on the handball rule on match of the day. Bravo sir! More figures in the game need to speak out like he's done.
		
Click to expand...

We gained against Man U and lost against Everton on this rubbish hand ball rule so I guess that's even, but anyone whose ever played the game knows that there's a huge difference between a deliberate hand ball and an accidental one. When I played you had to have been seen to handle it and the ball hitting you from 10 yards away at 70 mph when you dont move your arm/hand to the ball was rarely, if ever, a penalty.

Another rule change that does nothing for the game


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			You looked decent, but I can't help but think that a draw would have been a fair result.

That decision was disgraceful. We were lucky with VAR last week, unlucky this week, so it has evened itself out... But in terms of football, VAR feels like it has been put in to just artificially create drama.

At least when refs made mistakes before, they had the speed of game as an excuse. Now, barmy laws and a set of overly officious officials have led to a sport that is slowly becoming a farce.

What's more, yesterday's decision doesn't even tally up for me with the new laws... Although I didn't agree with the penalty we were given last week, I could see how it was given with the new laws in place. Other than Ward standing there with his arms behind his back, I don't see what he could have done there.

The position he was in, and how he reacted to the ball, just didn't tick any of the boxes with regards to giving a penalty.

Joke.
		
Click to expand...

Can't argue with this. I'd readied myself for an equaliser, I would have been happy with a point. You dominated the second half without actually threatening too much though. As you have done to other teams we did to you. A well organised team is very difficult to break down if they decide to dig in and not charge forward. Our weakness is a whipped in ball on top of Pickford. You did a few in the first half but then stopped. I don't know if that was Palace not being smart or Ancelotti getting the full backs to push up and block the crosses but once you were in front of us we were okay.

You look stronger than in past years, I don't see any issues this season with bottom of the table worries.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			You looked decent, but I can't help but think that a draw would have been a fair result.

That decision was disgraceful. We were lucky with VAR last week, unlucky this week, so it has evened itself out... But in terms of football, VAR feels like it has been put in to just artificially create drama.

At least when refs made mistakes before, they had the speed of game as an excuse. Now, barmy laws and a set of overly officious officials have led to a sport that is slowly becoming a farce.

What's more, yesterday's decision doesn't even tally up for me with the new laws... Although I didn't agree with the penalty we were given last week, I could see how it was given with the new laws in place. Other than Ward standing there with his arms behind his back, I don't see what he could have done there.

The position he was in, and how he reacted to the ball, just didn't tick any of the boxes with regards to giving a penalty.

Joke.
		
Click to expand...

Just to point out the decision isn't VAR issue .. it's the handball law 

VAR saw the correct law applied 

The law however is ridiculous


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			I can’t see any fans being allowed in for all of this season!
		
Click to expand...

Long may it continue. Only reason we played so well last 10 games was because the knuckle draggers were at home rather than getting on the teams back 

Plus loving watching every game at random times so you can see more games


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## Slime (Sep 27, 2020)

4LEX said:



			What a bizarre couple of games......

I won't dig out Ole or United too much but it's clear as day they're badly coached, have no system and totally rudderless. *A farce restarting the game after the final whistle for a penalty.* A circus that sums that club up right now. How can you play a left winger upfront for so long and a striker on the right wing. No pace in central midfield or defence at all......bizzare.

Chelsea are similar to United, decent players but a manager that looks like he's about to be found out. Lucky at Brighton, outclassed by Liverpool and a nothing showing against probably the worst team in the league. He started out OK but since lockdown Chelsea have looked muddled. Possibly too early to judge this season as so many new arrivals will take time to gel but it doesn't look good.

It's getting boring with City and Liverpool, can we get Poch back and someone like Nagelsmann in the league. Wave goodbye to former club heros and replace with proper managers?

Respect to Ancelloti, fantastic start. Picking a system and buying players that fit it might catch on one day 

Click to expand...

So, you don't know the rules.


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## Orikoru (Sep 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			So, you don't know the rules.
		
Click to expand...

Why is that your take? Him saying it's stupid to restart the game for a penalty after it's finished doesn't imply he doesn't know the rules at all.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Just saw Roy's words on the handball rule on match of the day. Bravo sir! More figures in the game need to speak out like he's done.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately when they do they are sanctioned, so they don’t say anything.
The clubs had a say in the five subs debate so why were they not consulted on the rule changes?


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## Orikoru (Sep 27, 2020)

Actually played well for once, we should be two up if not three. Guarantee we'll draw this 1-1 now.


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## fundy (Sep 27, 2020)

lol RIP football, if thats a penalty


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## Orikoru (Sep 27, 2020)

Football is dead. Put the last nail in and bury it.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol RIP football, if thats a penalty
		
Click to expand...

every time I see a shocking decision like that in endorses why I have said goodbye to a season ticket. Imagine being a fan in the ground and not knowing what is going on. Football is dying on its backside.


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2020)

Can’t understand why this handball rule is so out of touch with reality? The ref and VAR are only implementing a ridiculous rule.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2020)

This is the result of VAR. Changing rules to suit VAR.

Those who have cried for it are now reaping the rewards. Enjoy it.


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## fundy (Sep 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the result of VAR. Changing rules to suit VAR.

Those who have cried for it are now reaping the rewards.
		
Click to expand...


just go back to deliberate, be far easier


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the result of VAR. Changing rules to suit VAR.

Those who have cried for it are now reaping the rewards. Enjoy it.
		
Click to expand...

Nah. This type of thing was going on before VAR. Just return to the old days where if you made a deliberate and obvious movement with the arm or hand, then that’s a pen. Remove all this unnatural position malarkey and grey area intepretation; its trying to be too clever and simply doesn’t work.


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## Orikoru (Sep 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the result of VAR. Changing rules to suit VAR.

Those who have cried for it are now reaping the rewards. Enjoy it.
		
Click to expand...

VAR was a good idea, I cannot fathom why they decided they had to make all the rules retarded, like VAR couldn't function with the existing rules?? Who's idea was that and why haven't they been sacked?


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## Slime (Sep 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why is that your take? Him saying it's stupid to restart the game for a penalty after it's finished doesn't imply he doesn't know the rules at all.
		
Click to expand...

I agree it's a farce, but it's the rules, just like the one in the Spurs game.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			just go back to deliberate, be far easier
		
Click to expand...

Not a chance. There's too much money involved in it. 

I'd like to see it though


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## fundy (Sep 27, 2020)

Even more disappointing is Jose going full no comment


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			VAR was a good idea, I cannot fathom why they decided they had to make all the rules retarded, like VAR couldn't function with the existing rules?? Who's idea was that and why haven't they been sacked?
		
Click to expand...

It was never a good idea. Even the trial runs in the internationals showed it's a bad idea. 

Stick it in the bin.


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## Slime (Sep 27, 2020)

Who got the red card in the Spurs game?
Was it Kane?


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			Who got the red card in the Spurs game?
Was it Kane?
		
Click to expand...

Goalkeeping coach I think


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2020)

Mahrez. Pick. That. Out.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2020)

Kyle Walker 😂😂😂


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 27, 2020)

Would the Newcastle pen be quite the talking point if Spurs had taken all their chances?


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2020)

New season. No change in City defending and no change in Vardy winning penalties


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## fundy (Sep 27, 2020)

Pep be getting the cheque book out again after this lol


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2020)

What a goal.


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2020)

Piece said:



			Mahrez. Pick. That. Out.
		
Click to expand...

Maddison. Pick. That. Out.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			Pep be getting the cheque book out again after this lol
		
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Aye, you'd think he'd be able to coach and improve the already  quality expensive players he's got instead of throwing money at it.


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Aye, you'd think he'd be able to coach and improve the already  quality expensive players he's got instead of throwing money at it.
		
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This. The defence are continually exposed by Pep’s tactics. Too much space as the midfield are caught forward. Things have to change or it’s going to be a repeat of last year.


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## ger147 (Sep 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			Pep be getting the cheque book out again after this lol
		
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Don't think they can afford Vardy.


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## fundy (Sep 27, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Don't think they can afford Vardy.
		
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dont think he plays centre half


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## Orikoru (Sep 27, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Would the Newcastle pen be quite the talking point if Spurs had taken all their chances?
		
Click to expand...

Well yes, because it's been talked about all weekend since there were other similar incidents. Enough is enough really.


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## ger147 (Sep 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			dont think he plays centre half 

Click to expand...

He wouldn't do any worse than the guys playing there for Man C today 😉


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## GG26 (Sep 27, 2020)

Couldn’t see us getting anything out of the game for 20 mins, then boy did I enjoy that.  Back to the top of the league.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2020)

Piece said:



			This. The defence are continually exposed by Pep’s tactics. Too much space as the midfield are caught forward. Things have to change or it’s going to be a repeat of last year.
		
Click to expand...

I'm struggling to think of a player Pep has improved. Otamendi got binned. Stones has been binned, Savic got binned. I'd be expecting him to coach these into better players. Instead he goes and spends more money. £400m on defenders and they still look ropey. 

Nothing gets mentioned in the press though, hes the media darling isnt he.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm struggling to think of a player Pep has improved. Otamendi got binned. Stones has been binned, Savic got binned. I'd be expecting him to coach these into better players. Instead he goes and spends more money. £400m on defenders and they still look ropey. 

Nothing gets mentioned in the press though, hes the media darling isnt he.
		
Click to expand...

It’s why they do nothing in the CL.
Big sides don’t just sit back and let them play.
If you get at their back four they are awful.
I think Pep needs a defensive coach ,because he can’t do it!
Only seen the second half but don’t remember Schmeichel making a save?


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well yes, because it's been talked about all weekend since there were other similar incidents. Enough is enough really.
		
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Yes I can’t see any difference between Vardy first and the Brighton one that wasn’t given yesterday.
It’s still the opinion of a ref in a telly room somewhere.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm struggling to think of a player Pep has improved. Otamendi got binned. Stones has been binned, Savic got binned. I'd be expecting him to coach these into better players. Instead he goes and spends more money. £400m on defenders and they still look ropey.

Nothing gets mentioned in the press though, hes the media darling isnt he.
		
Click to expand...

Pep is the best manager in world....


When he has unlimited money and the best team in the league ...


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## Orikoru (Sep 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Pep is the best manager in world....


When he has unlimited money and the best team in the league ...
		
Click to expand...

He's just way too concerned with his team being lovely on the ball. He uses full backs who just get forward. His new 'holding mid' Rodri is just a go who can play short passes around and offers very little protection to the defence. A defence made of centre backs who can't really defend, they're just chosen because they can pass it. Even the goalie is selected because he can pass it - not that he's a bad keeper but every player is chosen because they can play neat little passes around. Anyone who can get them on the break they're screwed because he's never coached them how to defend. He's not interested.


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## 4LEX (Sep 27, 2020)

Shocker for Spurs, really harsh call. Deserved a big win based on the performance.

As for City, they simply won't win or even challenge for the title unless they sign a striker. Aguero is a has been and injury prone for two years now, Jesus isn't good enough to lead the line. Glaring weakness that hasn't been addressed for a year or so. The defence is an issue too. Walker is past his best, Mendy a clubfooted cheerleader, no leaders at centre back and a weak CDM. Not looking good.


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## 4LEX (Sep 27, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Would the Newcastle pen be quite the talking point if Spurs had taken all their chances?
		
Click to expand...

No. But missing chances is part of football, having video refs making wrong calls isn't.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2020)

4LEX said:



			No. But missing chances is part of football, having video refs making wrong calls isn't.
		
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Not the wrong call tho is it.. by current law it was spot on 
.just the law is rubbush


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 27, 2020)

4LEX said:



			No. But missing chances is part of football, having video refs making wrong calls isn't.
		
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So who cost them 2 points.. their players missing the goal or VAR?
I get the VAR/handball rules opinions, but if they had hit the net more like they should have done the handball would be a small side issue.


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## 4LEX (Sep 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not the wrong call tho is it.. by current law it was spot on
.just the law is rubbush
		
Click to expand...

If you love football, it was the wrong call.


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## 4LEX (Sep 27, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So who cost them 2 points.. their players missing the goal or VAR?
I get the VAR/handball rules opinions, but if they had hit the net more like they should have done the handball would be a small side issue.
		
Click to expand...

I totally get that. Chances were missed and without a doubt cost Spurs. But why do rules need to be changed every year that add nothing to the game, and if anything detract from it?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2020)

4LEX said:



			If you love football, it was the wrong call.
		
Click to expand...

No, it's the correct call because it's the law of the game 

It's the law that is complete rubbish 

Can't say it's wrong when it's correctly applying a law


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2020)

Proper made wolves look ordinary tonight


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## Orikoru (Sep 27, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So who cost them 2 points.. their players missing the goal or VAR?
I get the VAR/handball rules opinions, but if they had hit the net more like they should have done the handball would be a small side issue.
		
Click to expand...

It's nothing to do with points is it. It's about a major issue that's completely ruining football, not just for fans but in the eyes of current and ex-professionals as well.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It's nothing to do with points is it. It's about a major issue that's completely ruining football, not just for fans but in the eyes of current and ex-professionals as well.
		
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Ex pros haven't s clue half the time

Lineker said the rule is ruining the game but in 2016 he was calling for all hand balls to be a pen regardless so just changes mind


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## Orikoru (Sep 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Ex pros haven't s clue half the time

Lineker said the rule is ruining the game but in 2016 he was calling for all hand balls to be a pen regardless so just changes mind
		
Click to expand...

I don't think he really believes that, he just throws it out now and again as a devil's advocate kind of thing, like he'd even rather that than the rule as it is now. He did it yesterday on MOTD. He's only one guy anyway. Every other pundit, even current managers such as Roy saying it yesterday, and Steve Bruce backed him up today even though it benefitted his team! It really looks like everyone is fully fed-up. Hopefully there is enough weight for them to change it sooner rather than later.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think he really believes that, he just throws it out now and again as a devil's advocate kind of thing, like he'd even rather that than the rule as it is now. He did it yesterday on MOTD. He's only one guy anyway. Every other pundit, even current managers such as Roy saying it yesterday, and Steve Bruce backed him up today even though it benefitted his team! It really looks like everyone is fully fed-up. Hopefully there is enough weight for them to change it sooner rather than later.
		
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You won't get a change mid season. Laws are changed at end of season otherwise it's not a fair contest


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## davemc1 (Sep 27, 2020)

I’m more shocked to see the West Ham score than I am the City one. Not sure who that says most about tbh


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			I’m more shocked to see the West Ham score than I am the City one. Not sure who that says most about tbh
		
Click to expand...

I'm not, soon as noble is out the team we look so much better 

Newcastle noble in team look awful 

Charlton out team.. smash them

Arsenal out team harshly defeated looked good 

Hull out team. Smashed them 

Wolves out team ..


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## Bazzatron (Sep 27, 2020)

Absolutely dreadful. Antonio bullied all three defenders and we had no answer. Never seen a team turn attack into defence as much as we do.


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## pendodave (Sep 27, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Absolutely dreadful. Antonio bullied all three defenders and we had no answer. Never seen a team turn attack into defence as much as we do.
		
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Antonio kept us up last year.  It's extraordinary how difficult he is to play against.
Sadly, his hammies are a touch on the delicate side.
This evening was definitely an unexpected cheerful moment. That's the good thing about being a bit rubbish - every win is a genuine pleasure.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Aye, you'd think he'd be able to coach and improve the already  quality expensive players he's got instead of throwing money at it.
		
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I dont think hes capable of coaching defenders to defend or tackle. A brilliant coach for midfielders and attackers, but I honestly dont think he can do defenders.


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## Fish (Sep 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think hes capable of coaching defenders to defend or tackle. A brilliant coach for midfielders and attackers, but I honestly dont think he can do defenders.
		
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Then if it's a shortfall, then surely just employ a defensive coach, like we should do also!


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think hes capable of coaching defenders to defend or tackle. A brilliant coach for midfielders and attackers, but I honestly dont think he can do defenders.
		
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Thats possibly a correct but with the resources available he should have someone in that coaching set up who can.

The same could be said for JM. When he was at yernited, I can’t think of a player who he’s improved there.

everywhere else he’s spent tons of cash


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## SteveW86 (Sep 28, 2020)

Looks like Pep has just spent another £65m on Dias to try and solve the problem


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Thats possibly a correct but with the resources available he should have someone in that coaching set up who can.

The same could be said for JM. When he was at yernited, I can’t think of a player who he’s improved there.

everywhere else he’s spent tons of cash
		
Click to expand...

There's no doubt that he has improved some players, Sterling and KDB being the standout ones for me, and probably a few more, but in terms of defenders I cant think of one.


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## Orikoru (Sep 28, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Looks like Pep has just spent another £65m on Dias to try and solve the problem
		
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Not going to criticise him for that, they should have done it over a year ago when Kompany left. The centre backs they have now are miles away from being good enough.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not going to criticise him for that, they should have done it over a year ago when Kompany left. The centre backs they have now are miles away from being good enough.
		
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Frustrating listening to City fans on forums, I e . One minute there screaming for Marquee signings and moaning when  we  sign Ake ( who i rate). Then moaning were not playing enough acadmy players. 
Like my lad said re Ake, may not be a big name player but neither was ro erosion at Liverpool and he ain't doing  to bad


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## Orikoru (Sep 28, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Frustrating listening to City fans on forums, I e . One minute there screaming for Marquee signings and moaning when  we  sign Ake ( who i rate). Then moaning were not playing enough acadmy players.
Like my lad said re Ake, may not be a big name player but neither was ro erosion at Liverpool and he ain't doing  to bad
		
Click to expand...

Ake was fine as a back up for Laporte. But not to walk into the first team - having come from a side that conceded about 60 odd goals per season. He needs coaching before being good enough to start games at the top end of the league, IMO.


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## SteveW86 (Sep 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Ake was fine as a back up for Laporte. But not to walk into the first team - having come from a side that conceded about 60 odd goals per season. He needs *coaching before being good enough* to start games at the top end of the league, IMO.
		
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Maybe he will get that when he moves on from City then


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## SteveW86 (Sep 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not going to criticise him for that, they should have done it over a year ago when Kompany left. The centre backs they have now are miles away from being good enough.
		
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I dont have a problem with him spending money on an indivual player, but its the £100's of millions they have spend on defenders and they are still a bit of a shambles when put under pressure that doesnt sit right.


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## Piece (Sep 28, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			There's no doubt that he has improved some players, Sterling and KDB being the standout ones for me, and probably a few more, but in terms of defenders I cant think of one.
		
Click to expand...

Kyle Walker. He's improved.

From cr4p to bang average.


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## Piece (Sep 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Ake was fine as a back up for Laporte. But not to walk into the first team - having come from a side that conceded about 60 odd goals per season. He needs coaching before being good enough to start games at the top end of the league, IMO.
		
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Cant argue too much about that. With Pep's system, he simply doesn't have enough numbers at the back when counterattacked. You can have Maldini and VVD at the back but without support/numbers, the same would happen.


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

Piece said:



			Cant argue too much about that. With Pep's system, he simply doesn't have enough numbers at the back when counterattacked. You can have Maldini and VVD at the back but without support/numbers, the same would happen.
		
Click to expand...


as long as they can play out from the back and spray the odd 40 yard ball then alls fine, no need to bother with actually defending lol


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 28, 2020)

Piece said:



			Cant argue too much about that. With Pep's system, he simply doesn't have enough numbers at the back when counterattacked. You can have Maldini and VVD at the back but without support/numbers, the same would happen.
		
Click to expand...

I think they took advantage of the "foul early" system until they got called out on it, then pundits / fans also got onto it and lastly the refs. Fernandinho was also starting to age, as well as get booked and sent off more, so once the first/second press is broken, they are highly vulnerable, as its normally 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3, if not outnumbered.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			There's no doubt that he has improved some players, Sterling and KDB being the standout ones for me, and probably a few more, but in terms of defenders I cant think of one.
		
Click to expand...

My point was about defenders specifically. £340m on defenders and they're still weak as piss defensively.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			My point was about defenders specifically. £340m on defenders and they're still weak as piss defensively.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, if you cant coach defenders, get a coach who can or change your system or "principles".

If you cant coach expensive £30-60 million defenders (must be on his 10th or 12th one by now), have a word with yerself.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, if you cant coach defenders, get a coach who can or change your system or "principles".

If you cant coach expensive £30-60 million defenders (must be on his 10th or 12th one by now), have a word with yerself.
		
Click to expand...

I genuinely feel sorry for the likes of Stones. Made a few errors and bombed out. Young talented defender whose being left out to dry. 

On the other hand I admire Peps ruthflessness  with players he deems not good enough. But there's gotta be something inbetween.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Ake was fine as a back up for Laporte. But not to walk into the first team - having come from a side that conceded about 60 odd goals per season. He needs coaching before being good enough to start games at the top end of the league, IMO.
		
Click to expand...

Trust me, as soon as he was bought, he was in front of Otamendi and Stones and was partnering Laporte. Until the Benfica lad came along. He is miles in front of Garcia and Fernandinho.
Oddly enough he was our best defender, but then again playing alongside walker, Garcia and Mendy it must of felt like he had been in a car crash.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			My point was about defenders specifically. £340m on defenders and they're still weak as piss defensively.
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure Stu? The last 3 seasons have seen them concede the fewest goals in one of the seasons and 2nd only to yourselves in the last 2 by 1 and 2 goals respectively.
I agree about the money he’s spent, but they still concede very few.


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

Gonna be a very long season for Fulham on current evidence


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you sure Stu? The last 3 seasons have seen them concede the fewest goals in one of the seasons and 2nd only to yourselves in the last 2 by 1 and 2 goals respectively.
I agree about the money he’s spent, but they still concede very few.
		
Click to expand...

Yes. they’re definitely weaker defensively.

They concede less because few teams actually lay a glove on them. The majority of teams were beaten before a ball was kicked season before last.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you sure Stu? The last 3 seasons have seen them concede the fewest goals in one of the seasons and 2nd only to yourselves in the last 2 by 1 and 2 goals respectively.
I agree about the money he’s spent, but they still concede very few.
		
Click to expand...

Not doughting your stats .
City play mainly in opponents half and will score goals.
But when they don’t play that well ,like against Leicester their defenders need to play well.
But apart from Laporte they are not good enough.
When you pay that sort of money he should be the finished article not need coaching , especially off Pep.
If Leicester’s finishing had been  better they could have scored 8/9.


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## paddyc (Sep 28, 2020)

I was quite upbeat about our chances tonight until I saw David Luiz is in the side. You just know hes going to do something  stupid, get sent off or concede a pen ffs


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

hows that not a red card for Mane?


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## paddyc (Sep 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			hows that not a red card for Mane?
		
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mmm....clear deliberate  hand in the face


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## Fish (Sep 28, 2020)

paddyc said:



			mmm....clear deliberate  hand in the face
		
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With a clenched fist as well 🤔


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

Gonna be a long old night for Arsenals front 3, hope theyre not expecting any service


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## paddyc (Sep 28, 2020)

hello😁😁😁


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

what a thing of beauty that was lol


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## SteveW86 (Sep 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Gonna be a long old night for Arsenals front 3, hope theyre not expecting any service
		
Click to expand...

🙄🙄🙄

Maybe not from their own players


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## SteveW86 (Sep 28, 2020)

Liverpool could have at least given us 5 minutes to mock them, but no.....straight to the other end and equalise


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## paddyc (Sep 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			what a thing of beauty that was lol
		
Click to expand...

That wasn't😡


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## paddyc (Sep 28, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Liverpool could have at least given us 5 minutes to mock them, but no.....straight to the other end and equalise
		
Click to expand...

To be fair they could have had 2 or 3 already. if we can get to HT 1-1 I'll  be happy


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## paddyc (Sep 28, 2020)

paddyc said:



			To be fair they could have had 2 or 3 already. if we can get to HT 1-1 I'll  be happy
		
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Not happy!


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Not happy!
		
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1-1 at HT would only have delayed the pain


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## paddyc (Sep 28, 2020)

Liverpool are in a different  league to us.


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Liverpool are in a different  league to us.
		
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theyd take Aubam out of our side and laugh if you offered them any of the rest

personnel wise were not close to good enough but we know that, at the end of the day weve added Gabriel and Willian to last years shambles of a squad, hence why theres soo many square pegs in round holes out there not to mention 2 or 3 we thought wouldve left this summer by now


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes. they’re definitely weaker defensively.

They concede less because few teams actually lay a glove on them. The majority of teams were beaten before a ball was kicked season before last.
		
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clubchamp98 said:



			Not doughting your stats .
City play mainly in opponents half and will score goals.
But when they don’t play that well ,like against Leicester their defenders need to play well.
But apart from Laporte they are not good enough.
When you pay that sort of money he should be the finished article not need coaching , especially off Pep.
If Leicester’s finishing had been  better they could have scored 8/9.
		
Click to expand...

Still doesn’t make them “weak as piss” totally agree they have issues and he’s struggling to find/develop/buy a settled defence, but they don’t win games 5-4 or 7-6 every week and to only concede 2 goals less than one of the best defences the PL has seen says a lot imo.


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## paddyc (Sep 28, 2020)

Rob Holding is avin a nightmare. Dont understand  why Gabriel  did not start.


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

We want to give it away a bit more in our own half lol. Watching the likes of Holding on the ball rather than midfielders or attackers is clearly not going to end well


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 28, 2020)

Fulham are nailed on to finish rock bottom. Don't have a clue


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Rob Holding is avin a nightmare. Dont understand  why Gabriel  did not start.
		
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Asking way too much from him, hes a no nonsense centre half suddenly being asked to launch our attacks from his own 6 yard box


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fulham are nailed on to finish rock bottom. Don't have a clue
		
Click to expand...


I see Paddy Power paid out on relegation today lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			I see Paddy Power paid out on relegation today lol
		
Click to expand...

As long as we are bottom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2020)

Fair enough result albeit Mane shouldve seen red and we really need some new bodies, especially in midfield (and to clear out a lot of the deadwood)

too many square pegs in round holes


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## paddyc (Sep 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			I see Paddy Power paid out on relegation today lol
		
Click to expand...

I think they could payout on Liverpool  winning the league. cant se anyone getting near them tbh


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## paddyc (Sep 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Fair enough result albeit Mane shouldve seen red and we really need some new bodies, especially in midfield (and to clear out a lot of the deadwood)

too many square pegs in round holes
		
Click to expand...

We maybe more organised and resilient  but still lacking quality especially  midfield.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2020)

Klopp puts Keane in his place 😆😆


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2020)

will we see a scruffier goal than Arsenal’s?

Good win though, made up for Jota slotting.


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## davemc1 (Sep 28, 2020)

I think you arsenal lads are very harsh on your team. Tonight was miles better than you have been the last 3 or 4 years at Anfield. 

The one thing I’ve not seen yous mention is the stupid playing out from your own 6 yard box. Wow, so bad. Maybe you’re not playing lpool every week so you’ll get away with it,but piggin he’ll, I’ve not the constitution for that

Oh, an Bazzatron may have a point. Jota shudda had a hat trick!! 😆😜👍🏻


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Still doesn’t make them “weak as piss” totally agree they have issues and he’s struggling to find/develop/buy a settled defence, but they don’t win games 5-4 or 7-6 every week and to only concede 2 goals less than one of the best defences the PL has seen says a lot imo.
		
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Against the better sides they’re easily exposed.  IMO they’re piss poor defensively.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			will we see a scruffier goal than Arsenal’s?

Good win though, made up for Jota slotting.
		
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Yes picked up by Klopp then a great goal, (although Salah tried his best to stop him scoring .)
Can’t see what Robbo was trying to do.
Great performance from the reds.
Everyone played well.
Mane a bit lucky ,just no need after 3 mins.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Still doesn’t make them “weak as piss” totally agree they have issues and he’s struggling to find/develop/buy a settled defence, but they don’t win games 5-4 or 7-6 every week and to only concede 2 goals less than one of the best defences the PL has seen says a lot imo.
		
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It depends on how you look at it.

City often have 70 and even nudging 80% possession in some games, so for the 25-30% possession the other team have, City are conceding too many in tight games.

The aside to the argument is that Pep has spent, was it 340m on defenders and keeps bombing them out when they dont perform, and replace, buy, replace again. No other team does this and to the same spend levels. Yes Liverpool bough VVD and United Maguire, but Liverpool, United, Spurs, Arsenal havent been buying 1-2 centre halves every year for mega bucks. The mega buck rests with Pep on this one.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Against the better sides they’re easily exposed.  IMO they’re piss poor defensively.
		
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Yet you both conceded the same amount of goals against the top 6 home and away last season.

One defence, imo, the best the Prem has seen for years and the other, iyo,  piss poor defensively.

You’re a hard task master you.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			It depends on how you look at it.

City often have 70 and even nudging 80% possession in some games, so for the 25-30% possession the other team have, City are conceding too many in tight games.

The aside to the argument is that Pep has spent, was it 340m on defenders and keeps bombing them out when they dont perform, and replace, buy, replace again. No other team does this and to the same spend levels. Yes Liverpool bough VVD and United Maguire, but Liverpool, United, Spurs, Arsenal havent been buying 1-2 centre halves every year for mega bucks. The mega buck rests with Pep on this one. 

Click to expand...

I totally agree with the spending/tinkering element, but don’t think it’s that bad compared to every other team bar yourselves.

Klopp has raised the bar and Pep/City are judged against that, take out the fact you took the PL to a whole new level and City have few issues.

They lost/drew against lesser teams last season, not neccesarily the top 6.


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## davemc1 (Sep 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Klopp puts Keane in his place 😆😆
		
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Missed that as I was coming home from the match... hilarious 😆 I loved it


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I totally agree with the spending/tinkering element, but don’t think it’s that bad compared to every other team bar yourselves.

Klopp has raised the bar and Pep/City are judged against that, take out the fact you took the PL to a whole new level and City have few issues.

They lost/drew against lesser teams last season, not neccesarily the top 6.
		
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For me City are 2/3rds of a great team, but we all know the 1/3rd that isnt "par".

He has had 5 years, tonnes of centre halves, tonnes of money spent, and it still isnt up to standard for the standing they have. They only have to defend for a quarter of the game most weeks, and if you take that as a percentage of shots faced, and all of the other similar stats they arent doing very well. If you just look at goals conceded that only tells part of the story.


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## davemc1 (Sep 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I totally agree with the spending/tinkering element, but don’t think it’s that bad compared to every other team bar yourselves.

Klopp has raised the bar and Pep/City are judged against that, take out the fact you took the PL to a whole new level and City have few issues.

They lost/drew against lesser teams last season, not neccesarily the top 6.
		
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e
If city have few issues defensively, why do they keep buying defenders 🤷‍♂️


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## davemc1 (Sep 28, 2020)

Oh, I havnt mention lpool yet 😆 I honestly thought we’d struggle tonight, especially when hearing Alison was out. Oh ye of little faith. This team ❤️


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## fundy (Sep 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			will we see a scruffier goal than Arsenal’s?

Good win though, made up for Jota slotting.
		
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will we see a clearer red card ignored than Manes?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			will we see a clearer red card ignored than Manes?
		
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no, it wasn’t a red card. He’s blatantly shoulder barged him and Tierney has made a meal out of it, rolling round the floor. Yellow was harsh.


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## Beezerk (Sep 29, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Missed that as I was coming home from the match... hilarious 😆 I loved it
		
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Klopp just a little touchy and defensive there


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## Beezerk (Sep 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			no, it wasn’t a red card. He’s blatantly shoulder barged him and Tierney has made a meal out of it, rolling round the floor. Yellow was harsh.
		
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Really? Looked a straight red to me, elbow in his chops with a clenched fist, he was doing in to hurt his opponent IMO


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Really? Looked a straight red to me, elbow in his chops with a clenched fist, he was doing in to hurt his opponent IMO 

Click to expand...

Not for me, it was clearly a shoulder barge.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes. they’re definitely weaker defensively.

They concede less because few teams actually lay a glove on them. The majority of teams were beaten before a ball was kicked season before last.
		
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What made me Chuckle before the game, was the comment, ”Pep has protected the back four playing Fernandinho and Rodri in front”. When you have walker and Mendy Playing wingback, the gaps are down the wings, not the middle.
I was on a forum last night where they were asking should Pep go. Talk about over reaction.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			no, it wasn’t a red card. He’s blatantly shoulder barged him and Tierney has made a meal out of it, rolling round the floor. Yellow was harsh.
		
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It was very close to one for me, and the yellow was definite.

I think what got Mane off the hook was his flying elbow (which he meant) connected with the shoulder marginally, before going onto Tierney's jaw. If it was direct probably would have been given as a red.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			It was very close to one for me, and the yellow was definite.

I think what got Mane off the hook was his flying elbow (which he meant) connected with the shoulder marginally, before going onto Tierney's jaw. If it was direct probably would have been given as a red.
		
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Bit of a silly one for me.
Tierney was by his own corner flag ,going nowhere.
If it had been 20 mins instead of 3 mins it might have been different.
But refs now won’t make a decision without the back up from VAR .

How Keane gets a job as a pundit amazes me he’s the most boring on TV.
Bring back Phil Neville.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			will we see a clearer red card ignored than Manes?
		
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There was one in the West Ham game really bad .
Ref didn’t even give a foul.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			e
If city have few issues defensively, why do they keep buying defenders 🤷‍♂️
		
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What part of I agree with spending/tinkering comments did you miss.🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			There was one in the West Ham game really bad .
Ref didn’t even give a foul.
		
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Which one was that?


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Which one was that?
		
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Might have got the wrong game. Can’t remember watched all the games.
There was one at the weekend made me cringe .
Proper point of elbow in the jaw.
Ref just ignored it and nothing made of it, but was really bad


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			For me City are 2/3rds of a great team, but we all know the 1/3rd that isnt "par".

He has had 5 years, tonnes of centre halves, tonnes of money spent, and it still isnt up to standard for the standing they have. They only have to defend for a quarter of the game most weeks, and if you take that as a percentage of shots faced, and all of the other similar stats they arent doing very well. If you just look at goals conceded that only tells part of the story.
		
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Goals conceded does only tell part of a story, but it depends on what story people want to tell, ie, If they should be dominating Europe by now and that is the focus, then absolutely there’s a big issue, but if you look solely at the PL, then there is very little issue.

All the arguments that can be levelled against them over the last 12 months could also be levelled at yourselves (and that’s ridiculous) last season they conceded 35 goals to your 33 but lost 9 games, some of those defeats to Norwich, Southampton, Wolves twice etc, 17 games in which they didn’t conceded goals compared to 15 games yous conceded in.

I go back to what I said before, without Klopp raising the bar City’s issues would still be there, but wouldn’t be in the headlines.


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## Orikoru (Sep 29, 2020)

The main difference defensively between City and Liverpool is personnel. Liverpool have Van Dijk, City have nobody of that quality. Liverpool also have Fabinho protecting the defence, Fernandinho did that well for City but he is seemingly being phased out for Rodri who doesn't do it quite so well. Both have great goalies who come off their line quick to bail them out when the high line gets caught out. City just need that dominant centre back to tidy things up - maybe it's Ruben Dias, I don't know as I've not seen him play. 

City's low goals conceded is obviously down to the sheer amount of possession they have. Most teams are going there and having 30% of the ball, they're obviously not going to score many. But a team that's well set up like Leicester can obviously get at them. Liverpool would never concede 5 goals at home because Van Dijk and Fabinho are too good for that.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Goals conceded does only tell part of a story, but it depends on what story people want to tell, ie, If they should be dominating Europe by now and that is the focus, then absolutely there’s a big issue, but if you look solely at the PL, then there is very little issue.

All the arguments that can be levelled against them over the last 12 months could also be levelled at yourselves (and that’s ridiculous) last season they conceded 35 goals to your 33 but lost 9 games, some of those defeats to Norwich, Southampton, Wolves twice etc, 17 games in which they didn’t conceded goals compared to 15 games yous conceded in.

I go back to what I said before, without Klopp raising the bar City’s issues would still be there, but wouldn’t be in the headlines.

Click to expand...

Ok, lets maybe be a bit more specific then:-

1. Have City had value for money for their 340mill spend on defenders over the last few years?

2. What is City's main weakness?

3. Do you think Pep adequately coaches position, tackling, team set up (defensively and against transition, to use the current buzz word), and now he has been found out about tactical fouling, has he no plan B for defending the next phase of play, if the first or second press is beaten? 

4. Is defending important to Pep?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok, lets maybe be a bit more specific then:-

1. Have City had value for money for their 340mill spend on defenders over the last few years?
*How many years and is it per Trophy?*

2. What is City's main weakness?
*Liverpool.*

3. Do you think Pep adequately coaches position, tackling, team set up (defensively and against transition, to use the current buzz word), and now he has been found out about tactical fouling, has he no plan B for defending the next phase of play, if the first or second press is beaten?
*His main tactic is possession football, none of his teams are built on simply out scoring the opposition. Watch the Amazon programme on them and you’ll see he covers all parts of the game, he leaves nothing to chance or ignores any area.*


4. Is defending important to Pep?
*Of course it is, that’s obvious by the sheer amount of money he’s wasted.*

Click to expand...

I’m not doubting City have to sort themselves out, but defending starts from the front and they were weak all over the park against Leicester.

Pep has forced other teams to raise their game and I’m sure he’d of been found out in La Liga or the Bundesliga by now.

I find with Pep it’s the normal British media and finding fault and wanting to put somebody down that is happening.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m not doubting City have to sort themselves out, but defending starts from the front and they were weak all over the park against Leicester.

Pep has forced other teams to raise their game and I’m sure he’d of been found out in La Liga or the Bundesliga by now.

I find with Pep it’s the normal British media and finding fault and wanting to put somebody down that is happening.
		
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I would have said his time in the Bundesliga wasn’t a roaring success.
However I think the more pertinent question right now, is who would you want to manage your team right now....Klopp or Pep?


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## IanM (Sep 29, 2020)

I am starting a go-fund-me page to help City as there are still some players left at other clubs!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2020)

IanM said:



			I am starting a go-fund-me page to help City as there are still some players left at other clubs!
		
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I reckon Alex Iwobi would make a better right back than Walker, not a high bar. £50m Pep? I reckon he could be tempted.


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## fundy (Sep 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Not for me, it was clearly a shoulder barge.
		
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wow, thought you were different Stu, take the tints off buddy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1310656893652697091
Looks to see where he is, straight arm to the face, clear as they come


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I would have said his time in the Bundesliga wasn’t a roaring success.
However I think the more pertinent question right now, is who would you want to manage your team right now....Klopp or Pep?
		
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Pep, far far better record than Klopp, give Klopp a few more years and he might get there, but his record is zero compared to Peps.

Record at Bayern:

Bundesliga: 2013–14, 2014–15, 2015–16
DFB-Pokal: 2013–14, 2015–16


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Pep, far far better record than Klopp, give Klopp a few more years and he might get there, but his record is zero compared to Peps.
		
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That’s not what I asked
Right now, which of them would you want managing your team?


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## Orikoru (Sep 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			wow, thought you were different Stu, take the tints off buddy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1310656893652697091
Looks to see where he is, straight arm to the face, clear as they come
		
Click to expand...

That's a really difficult one to judge, I think. I'd almost say it's worse than a yellow but not quite a red. It's dangerous play as he's put his forearm up at head height - I don't think he's meant to hit him as such, but letter of the law, probably just a red.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			That’s not what I asked
Right now, which of them would you want managing your team?
		
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Neither, Carlofantastico

If pushed, Pep


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Neither, Carlofantastico

If pushed, Pep
		
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Which one would you want if your club only had a normal budget?

If Pep ever goes to a club of the Standing of Seville, Lazio, Schalke, Lyon, Wolves and does the same magic, I'll be the first to congratulate him, but a bit like Mourinho has he proved that he can manage a club to greatness without excessive funds, or from the 2nd tier of clubs in that country.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m not doubting City have to sort themselves out, but defending starts from the front and they were weak all over the park against Leicester.

Pep has forced other teams to raise their game and I’m sure he’d of been found out in La Liga or the Bundesliga by now.

I find with Pep it’s the normal British media and finding fault and wanting to put somebody down that is happening.
		
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When someone spends that amount of money on a defence, questions should be asked by the media.


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## Junior (Sep 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok, lets maybe be a bit more specific then:-

1. Have City had value for money for their 340mill spend on defenders over the last few years?

2. What is City's main weakness?

3. Do you think Pep adequately coaches position, tackling, team set up (defensively and against transition, to use the current buzz word), and now he has been found out about tactical fouling, has he no plan B for defending the next phase of play, if the first or second press is beaten?

4. Is defending important to Pep?
		
Click to expand...

I think that point 3 is the nail on the head.  You can sign all the defenders you want, but, at this level, if the system you play leaves them exposed then they're still going to be toast.  We're a perfect example of this atm too.  Maguire was the solution to all our problems, but, we are shocking at the minute as we've zero work rate and we're always leaving ourselves exposed to counter attacks.  Watching Lpool last night was again an education in work rate and tracking the ball down.  Your defenders rarely have to defend as your midfield and strikers are often chasing thr ball down.  Arsenal played right into your hands last night by trying the old ticca tacca from the back. 

So far, from what I've seen this season is that Lpool, Leicester and Everton have really impressed.  Something isn't right with our dressing room.  Seems to be a lethargy about Man U that Ole needs to put right.  We're not working half as hard are we did at the end of last season.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Which one would you want if your club only had a normal budget?

If Pep ever goes to a club of the Standing of Seville, Lazio, Schalke, Lyon, Wolves and does the same magic, I'll be the first to congratulate him, but a bit like Mourinho has he proved that he can manage a club to greatness without excessive funds, or from the 2nd tier of clubs in that country.
		
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None of them, all of them have spent millions.
Pep got Barca after proving himself at Barca B, Jose did with Porto, Klopp with Dortmund, are you really suggesting instead of staying at or near the top they should step backwards?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			None of them, all of them have spent millions.
Pep got Barca after proving himself at Barca B, Jose did with Porto, Klopp with Dortmund, are you really suggesting instead of staying at or near the top they should step backwards?
		
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Although pep has been a great manager, managing the reserves doesnt necessarily mean you will cut it at the elite level. Thats a bigger step then going from mid-prem to top 6, never mind from a championship club.

Why not - hes had 15 years at the top, prove to yourself that you can turn a top 5-6 Spanish club into challengers.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Although pep has been a great manager, managing the reserves doesnt necessarily mean you will cut it at the elite level. Thats a bigger step then going from mid-prem to top 6, never mind from a championship club.

Why not - hes had 15 years at the top, prove to yourself that you can turn a top 5-6 Spanish club into challengers.
		
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I can’t think of any Sport were a person will reach the top level and then while there decide to go back a few levels to “prove” themselves, after all I doubt any at the top level would actually believe they don’t deserve to be were they are.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I can’t think of any Sport were a person will reach the *top level and then while there decide to go back a few levels to “prove” themselves,* after all I doubt any at the top level would actually believe they don’t deserve to be were they are.
		
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You should be able to think of one clear one 

Carlo Ancelotti


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## Slime (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I can’t think of any Sport were a person will reach the top level and then while there *decide to go back a few levels to “prove” themselves*, after all I doubt any at the top level would actually believe they don’t deserve to be were they are.
		
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Mourinho has.


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## pendodave (Sep 29, 2020)

Leb



pauldj42 said:



			I can’t think of any Sport were a person will reach the top level and then while there decide to go back a few levels to “prove” themselves, after all I doubt any at the top level would actually believe they don’t deserve to be were they are.
		
Click to expand...

LeBron going back to Cleveland?
But in practice, it's often a different skill set when you drop down, so not sure that it would even be a worthwhile bar-room discussion.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You should be able to think of one clear one

Carlo Ancelotti
		
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Money Phil, let’s not kid ourselves, at 61yrs old he’s got nothing to prove.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1310822294047150083
Blud ain't happy fam 😁😁


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			wow, thought you were different Stu, take the tints off buddy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1310656893652697091
Looks to see where he is, straight arm to the face, clear as they come
		
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Funniest  thing about that, Tierney clutches the left side of his face, the challenge was on the opposite side 😁😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Money Phil, let’s not kid ourselves, at 61yrs old he’s got nothing to prove.
		
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So he has only gone to Everton for money ? Or he has taken a step down to prove he can do it without being at a top 6/title challenging club. Same as Mourinho has with Spurs


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## fundy (Sep 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Funniest  thing about that, Tierney clutches the left side of his face, the challenge was on the opposite side 😁😁
		
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both hands reach up to the right side of his face if you watch with the tints off, if hed reacted as Mane or Salah would and faked death it wouldve been a definite red no doubt


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So he has only gone to Everton for money ? Or he has taken a step down to prove he can do it without being at a top 6/title challenging club. Same as Mourinho has with Spurs
		
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Not only the money, but the main reason, he’s been paid a fortune.

I hope it’s exactly as you say for Ancelotti, I’m more cynical and believe most will go anywhere if the money is right, like I said earlier, I’m not aware of any top Manager taking a step down whilst being succesful at a top Club. 

He was unemployed when we got him, if Napoli hadn’t of sacked him I doubt we’d have him now.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

Very pleased to see this after the cluster we’ve had so far, my only concern is, is that it will be down to individual Referee’s interpratation and the worry of consistency between the Referees.

“Premier League referees will be told to show greater leniency in handball decisions starting from this coming weekend, report David Ornstein and Matt Slater. 
At a Premier League meeting on Tuesday it was agreed that referees will be allowed to apply greater subjectivity within the existing rules, after a conversation with the International Football Association Board (IFAB).”


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## Orikoru (Sep 29, 2020)




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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Very pleased to see this after the cluster we’ve had so far, my only concern is, is that it will be down to individual Referee’s interpratation and the worry of consistency between the Referees.

“Premier League referees will be told to show greater leniency in handball decisions starting from this coming weekend, report David Ornstein and Matt Slater.
At a Premier League meeting on Tuesday it was agreed that referees will be allowed to apply greater subjectivity within the existing rules, after a conversation with the International Football Association Board (IFAB).”
		
Click to expand...

I like the essence of this but ironically I think you only get consistency if you are rigid on the rules. If not then people will have to accept different interpretations. 

We will have to remind pundits, the media and fans of the period of rigid rule enforcement when the moans start coming in 😄.

Good to see such a quick response to the recent controversies which in this instance were probably warranted.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I like the essence of this but ironically I think you only get consistency if you are rigid on the rules. If not then people will have to accept different interpretations.

We will have to remind pundits, the media and fans of the period of rigid rule enforcement when the moans start coming in 😄.

Good to see such a quick response to the recent controversies which in this instance were probably warranted.
		
Click to expand...

Give it a few weeks and we’ll have MOTD and Sky moaning while comparing incidents/Referees giving penalties one week and not the next.


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## Orikoru (Sep 29, 2020)

Lamela has been excellent tonight, well deserved a goal. And his odd boots are making me nostalgic for Assou-Ekotto. 

Now we can lose on penalties instead, much more respectable.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I can’t think of any Sport were a person will reach the top level and then while there decide to go back a few levels to “prove” themselves, after all I doubt any at the top level would actually believe they don’t deserve to be were they are.
		
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Not a few levels, one level.


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## Orikoru (Sep 29, 2020)

Wow! Uncharacteristically good penalties from us! When we scored 4 and Kane was 5th, I was just waiting for the irony of him being the one who missed, but no. Really good second half from us to be fair.


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## Rlburnside (Sep 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Wow! Uncharacteristically good penalties from us! When we scored 4 and Kane was 5th, I was just waiting for the irony of him being the one who missed, but no. Really good second half from us to be fair.
		
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Good comeback in second half with a hotch pot of a team good penalty’s except the last one 😂

Always good to beat them


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## Rlburnside (Sep 30, 2020)

I thought Dier was a good example of how stupid the handball rule is, you could see that he stopped to put his hands behind his back stopping his momentum to close Werner down, not saying he would have stopped Werners goal but he would have had a much better chance if he played normally.

It was reported in the Metro that refs are being advised to be more lenient with the handball rule but the Dier handball would have still been given. 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I thought Dier was a good example of how stupid the handball rule is, you could see that he stopped to put his hands behind his back stopping his momentum to close Werner down, not saying he would have stopped Werners goal but he would have had a much better chance if he played normally.

It was reported in the Metro that refs are being advised to be more lenient with the handball rule but the Dier handball would have still been given. 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
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I think whoever said it earlier in this thread was right that they're not going to drastically change the law mid-way through a season unfortunately, even if it completely unfit for purpose. Hopefully enough of a noise has been made to revise it for next season, and write this season off pretty much. It's a weird, condensed season anyway.

Personally I think the only way they can save face with VAR is to scrap the Stockley Park bods and just keep the pitchside monitor. Change the laws back to what they were. Ref and linesman go back to reffing the game (since they're currently not, they're just spokesmen as it stands). Any decision they didn't get a clear view on, ref can go watch it again on the screen. But not in super slow-motion, normal speed for handballs so it doesn't look as if they had their hand in the air for an age. Nobody drawing stupid lines on it for offsides, just pause when the ball is played and the ref can use his eyes to see if he's offside or level. A lot of people are saying that those who wanted VAR are responsible for the mess it is, but I don't accept that at all, since what I've just described is what I was hoping for all along.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I think whoever said it earlier in this thread was right that they're not going to drastically change the law mid-way through a season unfortunately, even if it completely unfit for purpose. Hopefully enough of a noise has been made to revise it for next season, and write this season off pretty much. It's a weird, condensed season anyway.

Personally I think the only way they can save face with VAR is to scrap the Stockley Park bods and just keep the pitchside monitor. Change the laws back to what they were. Ref and linesman go back to reffing the game (since they're currently not, they're just spokesmen as it stands). Any decision they didn't get a clear view on, ref can go watch it again on the screen. But not in super slow-motion, normal speed for handballs so it doesn't look as if they had their hand in the air for an age. Nobody drawing stupid lines on it for offsides, just pause when the ball is played and the ref can use his eyes to see if he's offside or level. A lot of people are saying that those who wanted VAR are responsible for the mess it is, but I don't accept that at all, since what I've just described is what I was hoping for all along.
		
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Id like to see a 5th official added to watch the game and point the ref to the monitor if needed rather than stockley park

Also no lines.. bring in day light . Should have been that for years


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Id like to see a 5th official added to watch the game and point the ref to the monitor if needed rather than stockley park

Also no lines.. bring in day light . Should have been that for years
		
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Why bring in a 5th official? What is it that the 4th does that means they can do nothing else? Use them, they are just ornaments otherwise.

I suspect Stockley Park is used as they have access to multiple screens. The pitch side official can only view 1 screen so you would still need someone somewhere who can view 5 screens at once to pick up issues.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why bring in a 5th official? What is it that the 4th does that means they can do nothing else? Use them, they are just ornaments otherwise.

I suspect Stockley Park is used as they have access to multiple screens. The pitch side official can only view 1 screen so you would still need someone somewhere who can view 5 screens at once to pick up issues.
		
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4th official manages the touch line, does the board for the subs, I don't think they could monitor the incidents if they weren't watching it entirely

Plus they are back up ref if injury happens


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			4th official manages the touch line, does the board for the subs, I don't think they could monitor the incidents if they weren't watching it entirely

Plus they are back up ref if injury happens
		
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The touch line can manage itself, it does not need a PL level official for that. They managed for years without the need, they can manage again. Coaches, assistants etc are currently doing the boards for the subs but again, it doesn't need a PL level official to do that. Have a fast track of up and coming refs to do this job. There will always be some who do not have games on a particular day, work it into their schedule. Div 1 or  2 game to ref one day, next day do the 4th official job. The old 4th official looks at the monitiors.

Saying all that, the above sounds hugely inefficient, needing too many screens and tech at each ground. Having at one location makes more sense. They just need to get the refs on the pitch to come to the side more.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The touch line can manage itself, it does not need a PL level official for that. They managed for years without the need, they can manage again. Coaches, assistants etc are currently doing the boards for the subs but again, it doesn't need a PL level official to do that. Have a fast track of up and coming refs to do this job. There will always be some who do not have games on a particular day, work it into their schedule. Div 1 or  2 game to ref one day, next day do the 4th official job. The old 4th official looks at the monitiors.

Saying all that, the above sounds hugely inefficient, needing too many screens and tech at each ground. Having at one location makes more sense. They just need to get the refs on the pitch to come to the side more.
		
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They are this year

If nothing missed or they agree with the ref they let it go if not pitch side screen to check and ref can make the final call. Either nothing or change decision


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The touch line can manage itself, it does not need a PL level official for that. They managed for years without the need, they can manage again. Coaches, assistants etc are currently doing the boards for the subs but again, it doesn't need a PL level official to do that. Have a fast track of up and coming refs to do this job. There will always be some who do not have games on a particular day, work it into their schedule. Div 1 or  2 game to ref one day, next day do the 4th official job. The old 4th official looks at the monitiors.

Saying all that, the above sounds hugely inefficient, needing too many screens and tech at each ground. Having at one location makes more sense. They just need to get the refs on the pitch to come to the side more.
		
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https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/g...ts the,officials, especially during the match.

The 4th official is more important than you think


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/global/files/referees/fourth-official-guidance.ashx#:~:text=The Fourth Official assists the,officials, especially during the match.

The 4th official is more important than you think
		
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I do not see that list as making them important in all honesty. Those jobs are admin or procedural. You certainly don't need to waste a top level official on them.

Barkley to Villa on loan for the season. Good move for Villa, good move for Barkley. One that makes sense for all.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I do not see that list as making them important in all honesty. Those jobs are admin or procedural. You certainly don't need to waste a top level official on them.

Barkley to Villa on loan for the season. Good move for Villa, good move for Barkley. One that makes sense for all.
		
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Don't see it as important except maybe the first bit that clearly says.. able to step in for any of the officials at any time? That's why you get refs as 4th officials for if the ref or assistant gets an injury and they swap with the 4th official .


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## 3-off-the-tee (Sep 30, 2020)

Barkley has just signed for Aston Villa on a season long loan. Really good signing for Villa.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't see it as important except maybe the first bit that clearly says.. able to step in for any of the officials at any time? That's why you get refs as 4th officials for if the ref or assistant gets an injury and they swap with the 4th official .
		
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It would be simple enough for an assistant to take over as ref, a ref on the way up to run the line. It is such a rare occurence and assistants are all professionals as well so it would not be an issue. We must both be bored at work if we are debating this


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It would be simple enough for an assistant to take over as ref, a ref on the way up to run the line. It is such a rare occurence and assistants are all professionals as well so it would not be an issue. We must both be bored at work if we are debating this 

Click to expand...

I'm not working lol I'm pinned in by the twins

The assistants aren't the same level as the ref they are up and coming so they are not able to take over from the ref

However the 4th official can take over from any of them


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I think whoever said it earlier in this thread was right that they're not going to drastically change the law mid-way through a season unfortunately, even if it completely unfit for purpose. Hopefully enough of a noise has been made to revise it for next season, and write this season off pretty much. It's a weird, condensed season anyway.

Personally I think the only way they can save face with VAR is to scrap the Stockley Park bods and just keep the pitchside monitor. Change the laws back to what they were. Ref and linesman go back to reffing the game (since they're currently not, they're just spokesmen as it stands). Any decision they didn't get a clear view on, ref can go watch it again on the screen. But not in super slow-motion, normal speed for handballs so it doesn't look as if they had their hand in the air for an age. Nobody drawing stupid lines on it for offsides, just pause when the ball is played and the ref can use his eyes to see if he's offside or level. A lot of people are saying that those who wanted VAR are responsible for the mess it is, but I don't accept that at all, since what I've just described is what I was hoping for all along.
		
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They said on Motd Sunday that the handball rule had not been changed!
It has just been brought in line with the European definition.
So it’s still up to the ref what he sees.
But the guidelines of what is or isn’t has changed.
Bit like the Covid advice very conflicting.

For the Lino one I just can’t see the logic, keeping the flag down for a tight decision fair enough.
But when someone is 5 yds offside and the defender plays the ball not knowing he’s offside then they get a corner because the striker didn’t try and play the ball , he’s interfering with the defenders decision making .
Or someone’s clearly offside but is allowed to play on and him or the keeper gets hurt that’s avoidable.


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## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			They said on Motd Sunday that the handball rule had not been changed!
It has just been brought in line with the European definition.
So it’s still up to the ref what he sees.
But the guidelines of what is or isn’t has changed.
Bit like the Covid advice very conflicting.

For the Lino one I just can’t see the logic, keeping the flag down for a tight decision fair enough.
But when someone is 5 yds offside and the defender plays the ball not knowing he’s offside then they get a corner because the striker didn’t try and play the ball , he’s interfering with the defenders decision making .
Or someone’s clearly offside but is allowed to play on and him or the keeper gets hurt that’s avoidable.
		
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Of course it's changed. The ref used to decide if they had intended to handle it or not. Now they give it if the hand was deemed to be away from his body, whether they intended to handle it or not. Ignoring the fact that you cannot jump or even balance yourself with your hands pinned to your sides. That's the problem.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Of course it's changed. The ref used to decide if they had intended to handle it or not. Now they give it if the hand was deemed to be away from his body, whether they intended to handle it or not. Ignoring the fact that you cannot jump or even balance yourself with your hands pinned to your sides. That's the problem.
		
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They said the rule has NOT been changed just the way it’s viewed to bring all leagues on a par.
I remember defenders with arms behind their back when John Terry was still playing is it a Jose thing.?


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## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			They said the rule has NOT been changed just the way it’s viewed to bring all leagues on a par.
I remember defenders with arms behind their back when John Terry was still playing is it a Jose thing.?
		
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That just means the refs are getting it wrong then. I thought they added a whole piece about arms being in 'unnatural positions' because they bang on about that all the time and it never used to be a thing 4 or 5 years ago.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That just means the refs are getting it wrong then. I thought they added a whole piece about arms being in 'unnatural positions' because they bang on about that all the time and it never used to be a thing 4 or 5 years ago.
		
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Possibly I remember the “natural silhouette “
Whatever that means to a footballer.
I do remember a ref giving a pen at Anfield against Milner in the CL his arms were by his side .
We were baffled but the pundits said “ that’s the rule in Europe”


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			They said on Motd Sunday that the handball rule had not been changed!
It has just been brought in line with the European definition.
So it’s still up to the ref what he sees.
But the guidelines of what is or isn’t has changed.
Bit like the Covid advice very conflicting.

For the Lino one I just can’t see the logic, keeping the flag down for a tight decision fair enough.
But when someone is 5 yds offside and the defender plays the ball not knowing he’s offside then they get a corner because the striker didn’t try and play the ball , he’s interfering with the defenders decision making .
Or someone’s clearly offside but is allowed to play on and him or the keeper gets hurt that’s avoidable.
		
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We all have the same rules and they are agreed by the IFAB, that’s why we got an agreement on Tuesday but can’t change any rules until the end of the season and it has to be agreed by all.

“At a Premier League meeting on Tuesday it was agreed that referees *will be allowed to apply greater subjectivity within the existing rules*, after a conversation with the International Football Association Board (IFAB).”

The bit in bold is the “change” as such.


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## Piece (Sep 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Id like to see a 5th official added to watch the game and point the ref to the monitor if needed rather than stockley park

*Also no lines.. bring in day light . Should have been that for years*

Click to expand...

Daylight rule for offsides will be even worse. What's the size of daylight, where does it apply, etc.? Bringing in subjective judgement to a black and white rule isn't right. Having said all that, the "toe-nail" offside decisions are just silly. It could be another VAR monitor situation where Stockley say to the on pitch ref, this offside is very tight, use your judgement to decide?


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## Piece (Sep 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



*They said the rule has NOT been changed just the way it’s viewed to bring all leagues on a par.*
I remember defenders with arms behind their back when John Terry was still playing is it a Jose thing.?
		
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In the same way that the high foot "rule" was aligned. In the Premier League years ago you could raise your foot a bit and tackle, but in Europe it was seen as an instant free-kick.


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## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2020)

Piece said:



			Daylight rule for offsides will be even worse. What's the size of daylight, where does it apply, etc.? Bringing in subjective judgement to a black and white rule isn't right. Having said all that, the "toe-nail" offside decisions are just silly. It could be another VAR monitor situation where Stockley say to the on pitch ref, this offside is very tight, use your judgement to decide?
		
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This is why I say just let the ref watch on screen and judge it by sight. If players are running side by side then the forward is level, he shouldn't be given offside because they put a sliderule across it and his stride pattern puts his toe ahead of the defender's knee or whatever. That's just stupid. Forwards should be able to know that they are level and therefore onside, not think "I'm level so there's a 50% chance I'm offside depending on when they pause the video".


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2020)

One for the Everton fans really. We've signed Lookman from RB Leipzig but know he played at Goodison and went to Germany for a decent price. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54349929

Is he any good? 

Personally I think we've enough attacking options and need more defensive cover as the Villa game showed


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			One for the Everton fans really. We've signed Lookman from RB Leipzig but know he played at Goodison and went to Germany for a decent price. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54349929

Is he any good?

Personally I think we've enough attacking options and need more defensive cover as the Villa game showed
		
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He showed promise but was inconsistent. He couldn't break through and so went out on loan. Leipzig loved him, really went hard after him and so he went. I think Everton would have liked to have kept him and eased him in but the offer was good, he wanted to play games. 

I'm sorry for him it has gone wrong so quickly at Leipzig. 

He will run at defenders, he is tricky on the ball, he will give you energy. Not an end product enough times. Only young though so that side can improve.


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## Junior (Oct 1, 2020)

One for the man u fans.....mildly encouraging 
last night.  
- Still too slow in going forward when we have the ball.  Its like they're scared of making a mistake. 
- Bailly is our best CB by miles.  Hope he stays fit. 
- Mata still has it as a footballer.  Great touches, very creative, always looking to play the ball to feet and run off going forward.  Id hate to see him leave.


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## Slime (Oct 1, 2020)

Junior said:



			One for the man u fans.....mildly encouraging
last night. 
- Still too slow in going forward when we have the ball.  Its like they're scared of making a mistake.
*- Bailly is our best CB by miles.  Hope he stays fit.
- Mata still has it as a footballer.  Great touches, very creative, always looking to play the ball to feet and run off going forward.  Id hate to see him leave.*

Click to expand...

Bailly - agreed.
Mata - agreed.

It was also nice to see Pogba with a smile on his face.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			Bailly - agreed.
Mata - agreed.

It was also nice to see Pogba with a smile on his face.
		
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Yet the commentator fawning over his "brilliant" fk which was going miles wide before a wicked deflection off the wall was a touch galling!


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## Dan2501 (Oct 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			One for the Everton fans really. We've signed Lookman from RB Leipzig but know he played at Goodison and went to Germany for a decent price. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54349929

Is he any good?

Personally I think we've enough attacking options and need more defensive cover as the Villa game showed
		
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I always really liked Lookman. I thought he was going to come back from his loan in 18/19 and be excellent, especially after a decent pre-season and a good run in Germany the season before but he really flattered to deceive. He got a brief run in the side, but tended to come on as a sub for Walcott on the right whereas I always thought he was better suited down the left cutting in. He's got decent pace, can beat a defender, but always lacked end product. I rate him and was disappointed we let him go at the time. I hope he does well for you.


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## Reemul (Oct 1, 2020)

Fulham poor tonight losing 3-0,  straight down at this rate


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 1, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Fulham poor tonight losing 3-0,  straight down at this rate
		
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Can't go down after tonight. Lose again at the weekend and we might as well pack our bags for the championship


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## Orikoru (Oct 1, 2020)

I see Dele is still around then. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311770949663023105


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## Tashyboy (Oct 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I see Dele is still around then. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311770949663023105

Click to expand...

Yeah but can he do it against City’s defence 🤔 oh hang on a minute.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 2, 2020)

On the face of it this could be some great business https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54388230

Makes you wonder why the Fulham scouts and stats people aren't capable of finding similar prospects. It's not rocket science that we area tad leaky at the back


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## GG26 (Oct 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			On the face of it this could be some great business https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54388230

Makes you wonder why the Fulham scouts and stats people aren't capable of finding similar prospects. It's not rocket science that we area tad leaky at the back
		
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Looking forward to watching this lad play, could be a great signing for us.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 2, 2020)

GG26 said:



			Looking forward to watching this lad play, could be a great signing for us.
		
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I think he has the chance to be something big but also a bit untested


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 2, 2020)

Mane tested positive according to Sky.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Mane tested positive according to Sky.
		
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Null and void the league .


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## Orikoru (Oct 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Null and void the league .
		
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It's ok, whoever wins will have an asterisk.


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Mane tested positive according to Sky.
		
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should be banned this weekend anyway


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			should be banned this weekend anyway 

Click to expand...

Must have got it of Teirneys chin.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2020)

Pickford.............Absolute joke!


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## Dan2501 (Oct 3, 2020)

Getting properly sick of Jordan Pickford, that's horrendous goalkeeping again. Can we get Sergio Romero in please Marcel.


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Pickford.............Absolute joke!
		
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Haven’t seen the mistake, but Pickford is exactly where Hart was a few years ago...England’s number one and making too many mistakes and was soon jettisoned.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2020)

Piece said:



			Haven’t seen the mistake, but Pickford is exactly where Hart was a few years ago...England’s number one and making too many mistakes and was soon jettisoned.
		
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Even funnier was one of the pundits at half time trying to say the weather played a part in the error!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Even funnier was one of the pundits at half time trying to say the weather played a part in the error!

Click to expand...

Dosnt he have Mac Wets.


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## Dan2501 (Oct 3, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312407203731697664
Shocking. We've sorted out the main problem area in the squad this summer which is the midfield, now it's time to get a new keeper in, sick of the constant and regular errors. 

Worrying that Seamus has gone off. With Kenny already out injured we're now having to play Davies at RB. Squad looks decent I think but a bit thin at the minute and the drop-off in quality is significant.


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## Dan2501 (Oct 3, 2020)

This James lad is handy for a free transfer. 3 goals, 2 assists in 4 PL starts. Stay fit now plz.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2020)

Strange one from Brighton !
Pickford makes a huge error in really bad conditions and they hardly put a cross Or shot on him again all day.
CB s come up for corners and they play everyone short and end up with their own keeper with the ball.
Clinical from Blues and defended well .
Think Brighton made it easy for them though to many mistakes.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2020)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312407203731697664
Shocking. We've sorted out the main problem area in the squad this summer which is the midfield, now it's time to get a new keeper in, sick of the constant and regular errors. 

Worrying that Seamus has gone off. With Kenny already out injured we're now having to play Davies at RB. Squad looks decent I think but a bit thin at the minute and the drop-off in quality is significant.
		
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Have you sorted out the main problem though. .?


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## Dan2501 (Oct 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Have you sorted out the main problem though. .?
		
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I think so, midfield was the obvious problem area last season, we were so bad in the middle of the park. Allan and Doucoure are a massive upgrade on what we had and been excellent so far.


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## Orikoru (Oct 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Even funnier was one of the pundits at half time trying to say the weather played a part in the error!

Click to expand...

That was Sidwell, I've got no idea what his point was. Yes rain makes the ball more slippery, but a Premier League goal should be good enough to overcome that! Not to mention an England number 1.


Dan2501 said:



			Worrying that Seamus has gone off. With Kenny already out injured we're now having to play Davies at RB. Squad looks decent I think but a bit thin at the minute and the drop-off in quality is significant.
		
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Thought I saw you were doing a deal for Max Aarons?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			I think so, midfield was the obvious problem area last season, we were so bad in the middle of the park. Allan and Doucoure are a massive upgrade on what we had and been excellent so far.
		
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I just think defenders clear balls sometimes when they should leave it to the keeper .
He would make me nervous playing in front of him.
All keepers make mistakes Though especially in that rain ,it’s been horrendous here today.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 3, 2020)

Nice problem for Everton fans to have. Crap keeper and still top of the league. You should look at it from our viewpoint. Crap defence and no points


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2020)

Edison making mistakes now?


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## Dan2501 (Oct 3, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Thought I saw you were doing a deal for Max Aarons?
		
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Not seen that, but have seen we've apparently agreed a deal for Ben Godfrey, definitely need cover in defence.


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2020)

wonder who Peps gonna buy this week  guessing if youve a half competent left back its worth sticking a premium price tag on him


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2020)

City Leeds game great game to watch.
Tactics went out the window.
Fair result .
Think that was a red at the end.


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			City Leeds game great game to watch.
Tactics went out the window.
Fair result .
Think that was a red at the end.
		
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clear red for Dallas for me
5.5 for Sterling and a yellow too imo


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## Kellfire (Oct 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			wonder who Peps gonna buy this week  guessing if youve a half competent left back its worth sticking a premium price tag on him 

Click to expand...

Trying to get Telles apparently.


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2020)

Seems Popes been studying Pickfords perfromances to try and get his England place lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2020)

Great play by Saint Maximin for the second goal. He is a very good player when he is on it.


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## Orikoru (Oct 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			Seems Popes been studying Pickfords perfromances to try and get his England place lol
		
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Typical on a day when Pickford drops another clanger, Pope has to play total crap as well. I don't think anyone actually wants to be England's number one.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Typical on a day when Pickford drops another clanger, Pope has to play total crap as well. I don't think anyone actually wants to be England's number one.
		
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Henderson, but I don’t think Southgate will play him if he doesn’t get much game time at Utd!

Sad state affairs while he still see’s (probably) Pickford as the best of a bad bunch.


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## Slime (Oct 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			wonder who Peps gonna buy this week  guessing if youve a half competent left back its worth sticking a premium price tag on him 

Click to expand...

Probably Alex Telles as United are dragging their heels YET AGAIN!


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## 4LEX (Oct 4, 2020)

The real problem with City isn't the lack of defenders. They've never actually had a top class defence in their era of success. They miss the leadership of Kompany and a fully firing Aguero.

The worrying signs are that Pep won't address either and that'll cost City big time. The Leeds game was exactly the same as the games they lost/drew last season. Dominate, create, miss chances, get complacent and concede silly goals.


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## USER1999 (Oct 4, 2020)

Whilst this is turgid stuff, what ever the question is, Jorghinio is not the answer.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Whilst this is turgid stuff, what ever the question is, Jorghinio is not the answer.
		
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gonna be a long old season watching square pegs in round holes if they dont some business, short term pain for long term gain hopefully


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## pauljames87 (Oct 4, 2020)

Wolves first now the foxes 

Bring on the Cockrell next time out , doubt we will make it 3 on the spin tho


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

Hallelujah, Aubam in the middle, plse keep him there now!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 4, 2020)

Awful game at arsenal but they have just scored a really excellent goal.

Strong result for West Ham. Antonio keeps on scoring.

Edit, where was this Arsenal team for 60 minutes? Another quality goal.


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## USER1999 (Oct 4, 2020)

Good from Pepe too.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 4, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Awful game at arsenal but they have just scored a really excellent goal.

Strong result for West Ham. Antonio keeps on scoring.
		
Click to expand...

Love this new formation we have played past 3 games 

Should have got a point at arsenal .. it brings fornals into the team 

We look so much more fluid without noble playing slowing up the game


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## USER1999 (Oct 4, 2020)

Well, that doesn't help.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

well its a win, not an overly convincing one but still a win


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

I know we'd poo the bed with Aurier, Sanchez and Dier all playing, but I didn't think it'd be that quick.


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

Whose defence is worse?


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Predictable : Penalty for United.
Predictable : Pathetic defending, absolutely shambolic.


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Whose defence is worse? 

Click to expand...

United's.


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

This is going to end 10 all.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 4, 2020)

7 minutes without a goal now.....getting boring


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Cancel football, the game is finished.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 4, 2020)

Surely if Martial walks then so should Lamela.

Clinical finish to add extra punishment


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## Junior (Oct 4, 2020)

How can you send one off and not the other for that ???


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Junior said:



			How can you send one off and not the other for that ???
		
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Apparently you only get a red if you stay on your feet!
Lamela's just a ****ing cheat and the ref and VAR have ruined the game yet again.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 4, 2020)

Welcome to the 90's and 00's for every small club in the PL


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## paddyc (Oct 4, 2020)

Junior said:



			How can you send one off and not the other for that ???
		
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Agree both to the face and soft. yellows only.
ManU need to get a central defender  not a 30 something average  striker.bailly and Maguire shocking


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## SteveW86 (Oct 4, 2020)

This is going to be a painful game for Utd now, harshly done with a ref/VAR decision and 2 goals closely follow.

This game should be 11v11 or 10v10, I can now see Utd finishing with 9


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## chrisd (Oct 4, 2020)

Oli's last game?


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## paddyc (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			Apparently you only get a red if you stay on your feet!
Lamela's just a ****ing cheat and the ref and VAR have ruined the game yet again.
		
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No not good from Lamela. had time to wave his arms look at the ref before  he was shot.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			Apparently you only get a red if you stay on your feet!
Lamela's just a ****ing cheat and the ref and VAR have ruined the game yet again.
		
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Yea Lamela’s a disgrace going down for the pat on his face, but your game was ruined before the sending off.


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## paddyc (Oct 4, 2020)

obviously  being a gooner you dont want to see spurs doing well unless they are beating ManU of course ha ha😁


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

Junior said:



			How can you send one off and not the other for that ???
		
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Letter of the law, I think it's red card because Martial struck his face, whereas Lamela caught him in the chest/neck. 

Common sense wise, you'd say yellow card for both. But common sense hasn't been present in football for a long time.


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## paddyc (Oct 4, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Oli's last game?
		
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They beat Brighton  in the cup Chris!


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## chrisd (Oct 4, 2020)

paddyc said:



			They beat Brighton  in the cup Chris!
		
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Dont think they could beat anyone in the saucer Paddy 😖


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Oli's last game?
		
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Why?


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## 4LEX (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			Why?
		
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Because he's not fit to manage Palace, let alone Man Utd? Out of his depth and if he cared for the club he'd do a Keegan and resign.


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## PieMan (Oct 4, 2020)

Any truth in the rumour Yernited were actually awarded their penalty in the warm up prior to kick-off?!! 😉😂😂


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Because he's not fit to manage Palace, let alone Man Utd? Out of his depth and if he cared for the club he'd do a Keegan and resign.
		
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Oh, is that right, I did not know that.
Thanks for the heads up.


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## adam6177 (Oct 4, 2020)

Listening to Gary Neville talking... I just wonder how deluded he's become with things.

Man utd were flattered at the end of last season.  The number of penalties they were awarded skewed how well they actually performed, they were not the 3rd best team in the league.

This fascination with pogba is also so boring. He's done pretty much nothing since coming back to man utd, I do not understand how people keep going on and on about him as though he is something special. He is not special.

OGS is not fit to manage a club of this stature, he is clueless.

As for this game.... Lamela should have been sent off, he is a disgrace for the way he decided to lay down on the floor, but I'm not surprised by the way he conducts himself, he is always the same.


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## PieMan (Oct 4, 2020)

OGS useless - time to make the call to Steve Bruce.......... 😉 😂😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Oct 4, 2020)

What I've been saying about spuds for ages .. spend some money on signings to have a chance ..

Bale has lifted the club and given son a kick up the bum to up his game again and so he has


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2020)

PieMan said:



			OGS useless - time to make the call to Steve Bruce.......... 😉 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

You’re wrong - i think Ole is doing a great job 👏


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Man utd were flattered at the end of last season.  The number of penalties they were awarded skewed how well they actually performed, *they were not the 3rd best team in the league.*

Click to expand...

After 38 games they were in 3rd position, doesn't that mean they were the 3rd best team ....................... or has maths changed?


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			What I've been saying about spuds for ages .. spend some money on signings to have a chance ..

*Bale has lifted the club *and given son a kick up the bum to up his game again and so he has
		
Click to expand...

It's amazing what effect a star signing can make, United should try it.


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## SaintHacker (Oct 4, 2020)

PieMan said:



			OGS useless - time to make the call to Steve Bruce.......... 😉 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

There's only one man you call when things are this bad, time to bring out the Big Sam!😂😂


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## PieMan (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			It's amazing what effect a star signing can make, United should try it.
		
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Well seeing as Spurs signed a more or less full time golfer, perhaps United should sign Rory?? 😉


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## PieMan (Oct 4, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			There's only one man you call when things are this bad, time to bring out the Big Sam!😂😂
		
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I don't think even Big Sam is that desperate!! 😂😂


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Well seeing as Spurs signed a more or less full time golfer, perhaps United should sign Rory?? 😉
		
Click to expand...


not sure they can afford him, whos going to pay half of his wages


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			It's amazing what effect a star signing can make, United should try it.
		
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He’s spent just over £225 Million in 12 months, can’t say he hasn’t been backed.


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s spent just over £225 Million in 12 months, can’t say he hasn’t been backed.
		
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They backed him to get top four and qualify for Champs League, but since then the Glazers have just watched every other club strengthen their squads whilst United haven't.
That's their business model.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2020)

Wasnt this defence proclaimed to the best in the Prem 😂 £80mil for Maguire 😂😂😂😂😂


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			What I've been saying about spuds for ages .. spend some money on signings to have a chance ..

Bale has lifted the club and given son a kick up the bum to up his game again and so he has
		
Click to expand...




Slime said:



			It's amazing what effect a star signing can make, United should try it.
		
Click to expand...

Leave it out, he's not even played! I really think it's just that Mourinho is finally getting what he wants from these players. Ndombele has stepped up, Kane looks sharp, even Dier has been relatively solid compared to how he usually is.


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## chrisd (Oct 4, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Because he's not fit to manage Palace, let alone Man Utd? Out of his depth and if he cared for the club he'd do a Keegan and resign.
		
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Oi ! We've got the best manager and dont need OGS 😤😤


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## chrisd (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			Why?
		
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Cos they'll get relegated otherwise 🤣


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## Dan2501 (Oct 4, 2020)

Ole's not the immediate problem at United. Woodward and the Glazers are. They need a proper director of football before they need a new manager.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 4, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Leave it out, he's not even played! I really think it's just that Mourinho is finally getting what he wants from these players. Ndombele has stepped up, Kane looks sharp, even Dier has been relatively solid compared to how he usually is.
		
Click to expand...

Hardly. Bale has lifted the club. Signing a super star can lift the entire team. Even just having him around the ground.

It's made son up his game. Knowing he could be replaced by bale

Kane knows now the club has ambition rather than no interest in anything 

It's so obvious 

Jose is a factor aswell but the bale signing is a signal of intent


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			They backed him to get top four and qualify for Champs League, but since then the Glazers have just watched every other club strengthen their squads whilst United haven't.
That's their business model.
		
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The squad is still full of quality players and they aren’t getting the basics right, surely that’s down to the manager and coaching staff?


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## PieMan (Oct 4, 2020)

We want 7, we want 7, we want 7....😂😂😂😂

🙏🙏🙏 can Sky get a link to Roy Keane!!! 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

Utter disgrace Luke Shaw


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

That was so obviously deliberate by Shaw, surely a red card? Ref taking pity on United I think.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Hardly. Bale has lifted the club. Signing a super star can lift the entire team. Even just having him around the ground.

It's made son up his game. *Knowing he could be replaced by bale*

Kane knows now the club has ambition rather than no interest in anything

It's so obvious

Jose is a factor aswell but the bale signing is a signal of intent
		
Click to expand...

I think you're over egging it far too much as it fits your narrative tbh.

Son was never in danger. Lamela, Moura, Bergwijn, and Alli will all play less now, but Son is first choice every day of the week.

Lets not forget he's only a loan signing. it's costing Spurs £20m isn't it? That's chicken feed in the prem.


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## arnieboy (Oct 4, 2020)

Super Spurs!


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wasnt this defence proclaimed to the best in the Prem 😂 £80mil for Maguire 😂😂😂😂😂
		
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Yes, but unlike some on here, I'm quite prepared to admit that I was wrong.


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



*The squad is still full of quality players* and they aren’t getting the basics right, surely that’s down to the manager and coaching staff?
		
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No, it isn't.


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That was so obviously deliberate by Shaw, surely a red card? Ref taking pity on United I think.
		
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.................. and Lamela's wasn't?


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think you're over egging it far too much as it fits your narrative tbh.

Son was never in danger. Lamela, Moura, Bergwijn, and Alli will all play less now, but *Son is first choice every day of the week.*

Lets not forget he's only a loan signing. it's costing Spurs £20m isn't it? That's chicken feed in the prem.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, and he hasn't upped his game considerably. He's usually this good!


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			.................. and Lamela's wasn't?
		
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You can't compare them surely?  Shaw's was a cynical deliberate hack that could have caused injury. Lamela and Martial was handbags.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 4, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, and he hasn't upped his game considerable. He's usually this good!
		
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He is in a purple patch tbh, but that's most likely as i dropped him for Havertz in my dreamteam the week we faced you!


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You can't compare them surely?  Shaw's was a cynical deliberate hack that could have caused injury. Lamela and Martial was handbags.
		
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But Lamela was almost killed by Martial's handbag!


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## Imurg (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			But Lamela was almost killed by Martial's handbag!
		
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He did go down quicker than Katie Price on a first date.....


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

Say what you like about Lamela but I bet Jose loved that from him.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

Imurg said:



			He did go down quicker than Katie Price on a first date.....

Click to expand...


dont last long playing for Jose if you dont


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Say what you like about Lamela but I bet Jose loved that from him. 

Click to expand...

And that says a lot about Mourinho.
Did you love it ...................................... honestly?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			Utter disgrace Luke Shaw
		
Click to expand...

That should have been a red. It looked casual and the player got up okay but there was no intention to play the ball and could have injured the player. Disappointing that the ref brushed that off so easily, it could have been another Gomes style incident.


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			And that says a lot about Mourinho.
Did you love it ...................................... honestly?
		
Click to expand...

I love Lamela. He's a proper sh**house. He's gone fishing and caught a whopper. He's a wind-up merchant, but Martial has been a donut to fall for it. I'm not even kidding about Jose loving it. If you watch the Amazon doc from last season he's constantly saying how we have to be less nice (in stronger terms that I won't repeat). He'll be loving that.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 4, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think you're over egging it far too much as it fits your narrative tbh.

Son was never in danger. Lamela, Moura, Bergwijn, and Alli will all play less now, but Son is first choice every day of the week.

Lets not forget he's only a loan signing. it's costing Spurs £20m isn't it? That's chicken feed in the prem.
		
Click to expand...

Look at the spurs documentary. When lloris dug son out for not running and they had the coming together on the pitch. Bit of motivation that his place could go and suddenly he back to his best if not better than ever.

20 million isn't chicken feed for one season

20 million is chicken feed for a signing .. a season that's not great value however for bale and lifting the club it is


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			No, it isn't.
		
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Strange how when Jose asked for more money he was blamed, despite winning 2 trophies and reaching 1 other final, he spent £360 million in 5 windows.

Last time the manager, this time the players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			No, it isn't.
		
Click to expand...

A better more qualified proven manager would be get far more out of that squad than what OGS is 

He is just trying to copy Ferguson and is completely out of his depth by a country mile - he isn’t good enough to be a manager at a championship side 

They have spent milllions

That team costs more most of the others in the league 

Everything about the club right now is a mess


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## SteveW86 (Oct 4, 2020)

Looking at what Ancelloti has don’t to Everton, it would have been interesting if UTD binned off OGS in the summer and got him in


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			No, it isn't.
		
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According to you its got the best GK,defence and front 3 in the league🤣🤣


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 4, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Looking at what Ancelloti has don’t to Everton, it would have been interesting if UTD binned off OGS in the summer and got him in
		
Click to expand...

Ancelloti wouldn’t of moved in the summer, agree they would of probably got him if they’d gone for him before he joined Everton.


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## PieMan (Oct 4, 2020)

After that I can see Poch in at Utd before Christmas. 

But if he's wise he'll hold out for the Real job!!


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## Dan2501 (Oct 4, 2020)

Why would United have binned OGS in the summer? They were one of the best teams in the league post-lockdown and did superbly to get to 3rd.


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## Dan2501 (Oct 4, 2020)

bEsT bAcKuP kEePeR iN tHe WoRlD......


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## Piece (Oct 4, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That should have been a red. It looked casual and the player got up okay but there was no intention to play the ball and could have injured the player. Disappointing that the ref brushed that off so easily, it could have been another Gomes style incident.
		
Click to expand...

That was a coward’s challenge. Should have been sent off.


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			According to you its got the best GK,defence and front 3 in the league🤣🤣
		
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You're a bit out of date now, please keep up.


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Why would United have binned OGS in the summer? They were one of the best teams in the league post-lockdown and did superbly to get to 3rd.
		
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Apparently, according to some, that wasn't the case.


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## Foxholer (Oct 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The squad is still full of quality players and they aren’t getting the basics right, surely that’s down to the manager and coaching staff?
		
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Surely 'the basics' are down to the player! Tactics and motivation may be down to the manager/coaching staff, but it they are really 'quality players'.....


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## Dan2501 (Oct 4, 2020)

This is great. Heck of a goal that from Watkins.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



 This is great. Heck of a goal that from Watkins.
		
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would be loving it if hadnt benched him in FF lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 4, 2020)

Barkley could have had two himself. Very poor Liverpool performance (not on the United scale yet). The downside is we're get Mourinho crowing in the press and on TV about how good he is


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## Piece (Oct 4, 2020)

Is there any top team that can defend?


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Barkley could have had two himself. Very poor Liverpool performance (not on the United scale yet). The downside is we're get Mourinho crowing in the press and on TV about how good he is
		
Click to expand...


cant say im a mourinho fan, less so now hes at spurs, but if you cant crow after days like today when can you


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## Dan2501 (Oct 4, 2020)

Comical defending from Liverpool. This is great, what a day of football.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 4, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			Surely 'the basics' are down to the player! Tactics and motivation may be down to the manager/coaching staff, but it they are really 'quality players'.....
		
Click to expand...

Basics as in formation, set up, who to mark, their part in the team, tracking back etc!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 4, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Comical defending from Liverpool. This is great, what a day of football.
		
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Can't see many punters having some of these results in their ACCA's


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

This is unbelievable. What an afternoon/evening this has been. Villa Everton title race this season??


----------



## PieMan (Oct 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Barkley could have had two himself. Very poor Liverpool performance (not on the United scale yet). The downside is we're get Mourinho crowing in the press and on TV about how good he is
		
Click to expand...

That's because he actually is.


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## Dan2501 (Oct 4, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			This is unbelievable. What an afternoon/evening this has been. Villa Everton title race this season??
		
Click to expand...

The Cazoo bump in full force.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 4, 2020)

A good evening for this thread!


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## Beezerk (Oct 4, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Comical defending from Liverpool. This is great, what a day of football.
		
Click to expand...

Best defence in the league 🤭


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## Dan2501 (Oct 4, 2020)

Joe Gomez has been so bad tonight.


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## Piece (Oct 4, 2020)




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## Dan2501 (Oct 4, 2020)

I don't know what the weirdest football news of the day is today. United conceding 6, Liverpool conceding 6 or Moise Kean joining PSG


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## SteveW86 (Oct 4, 2020)

How long did it take Liverpool to concede 7 last season?
I can’t decide if this is a great day for the premier league or not, either way it’s been good viewing.


----------



## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

Maybe the #FSGOut crew were onto something


----------



## Dan2501 (Oct 4, 2020)

Allardyce is available if Liverpool need someone to help them learn how to defend.


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

Dunno about you lot but I cannot wait for Klopp's interview.


----------



## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Amazing how the L'pool fans were all over this thread when Utd got battered, albeit by the ref who quickly made it 10 vs 12, and now they seem to have gone AWOL.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

anyone else disappointed not to be able to use the 8-2 gag


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## SteveW86 (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			Amazing how the L'pool fans were all over this thread when Utd got battered, albeit by the ref who quickly made it 10 vs 12, and now they seem to have gone AWOL. 

Click to expand...

I’m sure they’ll be in later to appreciate how Villa outclassed them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			Amazing how the L'pool fans were all over this thread when Utd got battered, albeit by the ref who quickly made it 10 vs 12, and now they seem to have gone AWOL. 

Click to expand...

Maybe because we were actually watching the game 🙄


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I’m sure they’ll be in later to appreciate how Villa outclassed them.
		
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No doubt about it - fully deserved to get stuffed , comedy defending today , they got some luck but could have been double figures


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe because we were actually watching the game 🙄
		
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I bet you'd have been posting during the game if Liverpool had won 7-2.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			I bet you'd have been posting during the game if Liverpool had won 7-2.
		
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Do you mean in the same way I have posted during the other games we have played this season 🙄 we got stuffed , not going to cry about it or blame the ref - will leave that to you. You have a good night now.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

27% possession and win 7-2 - footballs changed!


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you mean in the same way I have posted during the other games we have played this season 🙄 we got stuffed , not going to cry about it or blame the ref - will leave that to you. You have a good night now.
		
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I'm not crying over the United result, but I will blame the ref.
Oh, and I'll have a much better night than I thought I would a couple of hours ago, thanks.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			I'm not crying over the United result, but I will blame the ref.
Oh, and I'll have a much better night than I thought I would a couple of hours ago, thanks. 

Click to expand...

Having watched the match, prior to the sending off. 

Do you really think the result (not score l) woukd have been different. 

They were picking you apart.


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			I'm not crying over the United result, *but I will blame the ref.*
Oh, and I'll have a much better night than I thought I would a couple of hours ago, thanks. 

Click to expand...

  Want some vinegar to go with that salt?


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Orikoru said:



  Want some vinegar to go with that salt?
		
Click to expand...

No thanks, I don't like vinegar ......................... sprouts, on the other hand!


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Having watched the match, prior to the sending off.

Do you really think the result (not score l) woukd have been different.

They were picking you apart.
		
Click to expand...

We'll never know, but it was only 1-2 at the time so who knows?
I don't see why not.


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## USER1999 (Oct 4, 2020)

Its been a nice day for me.


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			We'll never know, but it was only 1-2 at the time so who knows?
I don't see why not.
		
Click to expand...

Maguire would have been playing either way though.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 4, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			How long did it take Liverpool to concede 7 last season?
I can’t decide if this is a great day for the premier league or not, either way it’s been good viewing.
		
Click to expand...

I did say last year that I enjoyed the league with the shock results that happened nigh on every week. Yet others saw it as a weak league.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 4, 2020)

Blimey what a blooming crazy day 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Is VVD still the greatest defender of all time? 😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Papas1982 (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			We'll never know, but it was only 1-2 at the time so who knows?
I don't see why not.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe because you were being totally outplayed..... 

The only person to blame is Martial for retaliating to a shove.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

At least De Gea kept to government guidelines and only allowed 6 in, Adrian could be in trouble for letting 7 in


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2020)

Well congratulations to Villa and their manager.
They destroyed our high line today and we were lucky it was only 7.
Robbo the only one to hold his head up high imo.
But when your having a bad day there’s very little you can do about it.
We just don’t have a plan B still.
We had chances first half ,but poor finishing again.
Deffo a pen on Salha.
But got what we deserved for that performance.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Blimey what a blooming crazy day 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Is VVD still the greatest defender of all time? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Just ask yourself.
“ would you like him in your team”?


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 4, 2020)

I guess the only constant in a crazy weekend of results was Fulham nil


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I guess the only constant in a crazy weekend of results was Fulham nil
		
Click to expand...

Glass half empty.
It’s only a game???


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## Beezerk (Oct 4, 2020)

Kind of ironic that the Liverpool fans seem to be a bit defensive tonight


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Maybe because you were being totally outplayed.....

The only person to blame is Martial for retaliating to a shove.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think we were being *totally outplayed.*

Oh, and Lamela is obviously totally blameless for getting Martial sent off.  
Just because he gave Martial 'a shove' .................... in the face .................... with his elbow!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			I don't think we were being *totally outplayed.*

Oh, and Lamela is obviously totally blameless for getting Martial sent off.  

Click to expand...

Thought Lamela was shocking. As bad as any of the worse divers we've seen throughout Europe going down like that. Martial was an idiot for raising his hand and touching Lamela but Lamela over reacted and was very poor


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought Lamela was shocking. As bad as any of the worse divers we've seen throughout Europe going down like that. Martial was an idiot for raising his hand and touching Lamela but Lamela over reacted and was very poor
		
Click to expand...

Havnt seen it yet .
But the comments are not good.
How can refs be fooled by this these days with VAR there to help them.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			I don't think we were being *totally outplayed.*

Oh, and Lamela is obviously totally blameless for getting Martial sent off.  
Just because he gave Martial 'a shove' .................... in the face .................... with his elbow!
		
Click to expand...

Neville seemed to think you were, as did Evra. 

as to Lamela, he and Martial should both have both been yellow carded. That being said, if martial had shown Restraint then worst case you‘Re both still at 11 players, best case Lamela is off.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Havnt seen it yet .
But the comments are not good.
How can refs be fooled by this these days with VAR there to help them.
		
Click to expand...

The Ref wasn’t fooled, yes Lamella is a disgrace, but again it is the law that’s at fault, Martial raised his hands intentionally and caught him in the face, he gave the Ref no choice.

The biggest discussion is whether Lamella should of walked as well, but his raised arm was decreed a yellow.

We have to stop blaming officials for player’s petulant behaviour.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2020)

Any of those who dont rate Grealish starting to change their minds yet btw?


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## 4LEX (Oct 4, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Ole's not the immediate problem at United. Woodward and the Glazers are. They need a proper director of football before they need a new manager.
		
Click to expand...

He _is_ the problem. Granted he's not the only problem but Woodward and the Glazers are going nowhere.

Ole is a medicore manager that has failed at every single club he's been at. He got Cardiff relegated and didn't even manage to win Molde a title. In fact the year before his tenre they won it and the year after he left they also won it! He'd not even get a high level Championship job, yet he's been installed at the biggest club in the country with the toughest job.

He's been at the club for almost two years and the side hasn't improved at all, if anything it's got worse. Under Jose they would at least control games, have a game plan and be well coached. They're nothing short of a shambles and getting worse. The longer he's at the club, the more damage he'll do. All United do is counter attack against the big sides to some success, then turn in abject performances against most other teams and rely on individual quality to win games. Theres no set style, no well drilled formation or pressing - it's all a mess. Last season 66 points was a poor total that under any normal season would be 6-7th, it was down to the wire on the last day even then. On paper finishing third was progress but apart from a run of a dozen games before and after lockdown, they were dire.

He's Woodward's goafer and yes man. Woodward can't sack him because it'll make himself look bad and the Glazers won't get rid of Woodward as long as he's covering their interest payments by finishing 4th occasionally. But even with the Glazers and the bumbling Woodward, a decent manager would do so much better with that squad. Mourinho got a far worse team into second and won two trophies.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The Ref wasn’t fooled, yes Lamella is a disgrace, but again it is the law that’s at fault, Martial raised his hands intentionally and caught him in the face, he gave the Ref no choice.

The biggest discussion is whether Lamella should of walked as well, but his raised arm was decreed a yellow.

We have to stop blaming officials for player’s petulant behaviour.
		
Click to expand...

I think the VAR ref should have asked the ref to watch the footage .
I would have given Lammela another yellow for simulation and sent him off.

And that’s a red for Shaw. The reffing and laws of the game are posh poor after that.
Who’s was worse Martial or Shaw.


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think the VAR ref should have asked the ref to watch the footage .
I would have given Lammela another yellow for simulation and sent him off.

And that’s a red for Shaw. The reffing and laws of the game are posh poor after that.
*Who’s was worse Martial or Shaw.*

Click to expand...

Lamela.


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Havnt seen it yet .
But the comments are not good.
How can refs be fooled by this these days with VAR there to help them.
		
Click to expand...

Don't think any fooling took place. They do check red cards on VAR and here they would have seen Martial put his hand on Lamela's face, so no error from the ref, red card stands. Ref gave nothing on Lamela so nothing to review. Perhaps he will get a retrospective ban from the league, I don't know.


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			Lamela.
		
Click to expand...

Lol leave it out. A bit of handbags and playacting is not worse than deliberately hacking down a player and potentially injuring him. Behave.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			Lamela.
		
Click to expand...

Shaw!


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Lol leave it out. A bit of handbags and playacting is not worse than deliberately hacking down a player and potentially injuring him. Behave.
		
Click to expand...

An elbow to the face could potentially cause an injury, couldn't it?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 5, 2020)

Slime said:



			An elbow to the face could potentially cause an injury, couldn't it?






Click to expand...

I agree that is just as bad and think VAR got it wrong.
It’s just as high imo.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2020)

[


fundy said:



			At least De Gea kept to government guidelines and only allowed 6 in, Adrian could be in trouble for letting 7 in 

Click to expand...

Its alright, the Everton grasses have already been onto Merseyside Police😉


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## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2020)

Today's effort, if it can be called that, reminded me of that Tottenham away performance at Wembley.

Pish poor.


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## Junior (Oct 5, 2020)

4LEX said:



			He _is_ the problem. Granted he's not the only problem but Woodward and the Glazers are going nowhere.

Ole is a medicore manager that has failed at every single club he's been at. He got Cardiff relegated and didn't even manage to win Molde a title. In fact the year before his tenre they won it and the year after he left they also won it! He'd not even get a high level Championship job, yet he's been installed at the biggest club in the country with the toughest job.

He's been at the club for almost two years and the side hasn't improved at all, if anything it's got worse. Under Jose they would at least control games, have a game plan and be well coached. They're nothing short of a shambles and getting worse. The longer he's at the club, the more damage he'll do. All United do is counter attack against the big sides to some success, then turn in abject performances against most other teams and rely on individual quality to win games. Theres no set style, no well drilled formation or pressing - it's all a mess. Last season 66 points was a poor total that under any normal season would be 6-7th, it was down to the wire on the last day even then. On paper finishing third was progress but apart from a run of a dozen games before and after lockdown, they were dire.

He's Woodward's goafer and yes man. Woodward can't sack him because it'll make himself look bad and the Glazers won't get rid of Woodward as long as he's covering their interest payments by finishing 4th occasionally. But even with the Glazers and the bumbling Woodward, a decent manager would do so much better with that squad. Mourinho got a far worse team into second and won two trophies.
		
Click to expand...

Having watched many many games under Jose, we never controlled games.  You can't control a game when you invite teams onto you and have 25% possession and 3 shots at goal.

Im beginning to waver with Ole.  Obviously I want him to succeed,  but the performances against Palace, Brighton and Spurs have left me with a lot of questions.  I blame the players more though.  

We were terrible defensively so he went out and got wan Bissaka and Maguire.  Arguably good business at the time, but we're still crap.  He's turned Maguire into Phil Jones.   Most importantly though he cant get the work rate out of the players.  Pogba especially seems to just jog around the pitch.   Not sure he's suited to the prem at all.  His days are numbered.....step in Poch.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 5, 2020)

Slime said:



			An elbow to the face could potentially cause an injury, couldn't it?






Click to expand...

It wasn’t an elbow, 2 players pushing and shoving in the box, Martial then makes a deliberate movement to “hit” Lamella.

Yes, Yes, Yes, Lamella over reacts, but again, but that’s just our opinion, Martial shouldn’t of given him the opportunity.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think the VAR ref should have asked the ref to watch the footage .
I would have given Lammela another yellow for simulation and sent him off.

And that’s a red for Shaw. The reffing and laws of the game are posh poor after that.
Who’s was worse Martial or Shaw.
		
Click to expand...

You can’t give another yellow for simulation, Martial made contact.

Getting the Martial decision correct has nothing to do with Shaw.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 5, 2020)

Deadline day and Everton have signed a CB, Godfrey, from Norwich for £25m. Promising player but a slightly odd choice imo. We have a couple of injuries right now in that area but we are well stocked in that dept and so I don't see that as being a crucial area to have spent on. 

Hopefully we will be shipping a few out today as well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Deadline day and Everton have signed a CB, Godfrey, from Norwich for £25m. Promising player but a slightly odd choice imo. We have a couple of injuries right now in that area but we are well stocked in that dept and so I don't see that as being a crucial area to have spent on.

Hopefully we will be shipping a few out today as well.
		
Click to expand...

He’s been in the pipeline for a few weeks now, Ancelotti has been looking at a few CB’s, Tomori and Zouma were rumoured etc, obviously he wants a bit strength in depth.

You almost make it read like it’s a last day panic.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s been in the pipeline for a few weeks now, Ancelotti has been looking at a few CB’s, Tomori and Zouma were rumoured etc, obviously he wants a bit strength in depth.

You almost make it read like it’s a last day panic.

Click to expand...

Yes, you are absolutely right, there is no panic in this at all. We have been tracking him for a while, as you say, along with Tomori and Zouma. When we have everyone fit we will have Keane, Holgate, Mina and Branthwaite coming through. An extra one seems too many. CB is not an area I like to see rotation in so it seems overkill. I would have thought we have other priorities, either GK or reducing the wage bill.

He gets good reviews so I understand the buy, just not right now. This isn't a criticism, why would any Blue criticise right now, more an observation or question.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yes, you are absolutely right, there is no panic in this at all. We have been tracking him for a while, as you say, along with Tomori and Zouma. When we have everyone fit we will have Keane, Holgate, Mina and Branthwaite coming through. An extra one seems too many. CB is not an area I like to see rotation in so it seems overkill. I would have thought we have other priorities, either GK or reducing the wage bill.

He gets good reviews so I understand the buy, just not right now. This isn't a criticism, why would any Blue criticise right now, more an observation or question.
		
Click to expand...

Keane - not consistent, Mina - Injury prone, Holgate - out for months and Braithwaite - just getting started.

Obviously he sees central defence as more of an issue than GK and the more we keep the opposition away from Pickford the better.


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## robinthehood (Oct 5, 2020)

I just watched MOTD, no argument with the Martial sending off and WTF was going on at Villa 🤣


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## Crazyface (Oct 5, 2020)

I don't, as a rule, watch MOTD, but it had to be watched didn't it. What a cracking two games. Haven't laughed so much in ages. And I realy enjoyed texting my grandson (18) who exclaimed after City's 1-1 "the leagues all over". Kids eh? LMFlippingAO


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 5, 2020)

Arsenal, Gunnersaurus . How did it come to this . Sad times at The Emirates.............


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## Kellfire (Oct 5, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313072766900408321
Every cloud and all that.


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## Grizzly (Oct 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			At least De Gea kept to government guidelines and only allowed 6 in, Adrian could be in trouble for letting 7 in 

Click to expand...

Pedantic, but this should have started at five, not six - the relevant keeper making up the "rule of six"


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 5, 2020)

Got to love deadline day. Cavani??? Has he still go the legs for the PL


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## Hogieefc (Oct 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Deadline day and Everton have signed a CB, Godfrey, from Norwich for £25m. Promising player but a slightly odd choice imo. We have a couple of injuries right now in that area but we are well stocked in that dept and so I don't see that as being a crucial area to have spent on.

Hopefully we will be shipping a few out today as well.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently he can play at right back as well as central defence, given that Kenny and Coleman are injured so he could get his chance quite soon.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 5, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Got to love deadline day. Cavani??? Has he still go the legs for the PL
		
Click to expand...

You might be getting Loftus Cheek on loan. He's a good player, is he what you need?


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You might be getting Loftus Cheek on loan. He's a good player, is he what you need?
		
Click to expand...

No


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## Orikoru (Oct 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You might be getting Loftus Cheek on loan. He's a good player, is he what you need?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure, can he defend??


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2020)

So, at this stage, bearing in mind some recent results, can we decide if this will be a weak league this year or a strong one?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 5, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So, at this stage, bearing in mind some recent results, can we decide if this will be a weak league this year or a strong one? 

Click to expand...

Weak as piss mate, worst ever.


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## Slime (Oct 6, 2020)

An awesome transfer window for United!
*Cavani.    *            Old stiker who can't play at centre back!
*Van de Beek.  *      Midfielder who can't play at centre back.
*Amad Diallo.    *     18 year old winger who's not Jadon Sancho and can't play at centre back.
*Facundo Pellestri.*  Another 18yr old winger who's not Jadon Sancho and also can't play at centre back.
*Alex Telles. *          Attacking left back who can't play at centre back.
Well done Woodward. 

To be fair, our youth set up is full of terrific young players who will easily get us promoted from The Championship next season!


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## need_my_wedge (Oct 6, 2020)

Personally, quite happy with the Arsenal transfer window.

In: Soares, Mari, Partey, Gabriel, Cebellos (loan), Willian, Runarsson, Aubamayang re-signed, Martinelli re-signed.

Out: Guendouzi and Torreira, both on loan.

Thought we may see a couple more out, maybe still will, we have to do a bit of juggling on the list today to meet the 17 non home grown list. I think we'll see two of Sokratis, Kolasinac, Elneny and Mustafi dropped out of the squad.


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## Orikoru (Oct 6, 2020)

Spurs probably had one of the best windows in the league, but still a question mark at centre back. Obviously Skriniar was a bust so in the end we were linked to Swansea's Rodon. Never heard of him and quite a step down target-wise. But he comes highly recommended. Not sure if we've got it over the line yet (deadline is a bit longer for English league clubs I believe) but if he does join, I hope he doesn't impact on the chances that Tanganga gets, because he looks a real prospect. I only wanted to bring in a CB if they were top tier really.


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## USER1999 (Oct 6, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			Personally, quite happy with the Arsenal transfer window.

In: Soares, Mari, Partey, Gabriel, Cebellos (loan), Willian, Runarsson, Aubamayang resigned, Martinelli resigned.

Out: Guendouzi and Torreira, both on loan. 

Thought we may see a couple more out, maybe still will, we have to do a bit of juggling on the list today to meet the 17 non home grown list. I think we'll see two of Sokratis, Kolasinac, Elneny and Mustafi dropped out of the squad.
		
Click to expand...

They could drop Ozil out of the squad, and then one other, and the numbers work. If you need 9 CBs that is.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 6, 2020)

Going on his two performances against us in the CL last year, Arsenal could have made one of the signings of the summer in Partey.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 6, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313017772973096961

NUTS!!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂


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## fundy (Oct 6, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			Personally, quite happy with the Arsenal transfer window.

In: Soares, Mari, Partey, Gabriel, Cebellos (loan), Willian, Runarsson, Aubamayang re-signed, Martinelli re-signed.

Out: Guendouzi and Torreira, both on loan.

Thought we may see a couple more out, maybe still will, we have to do a bit of juggling on the list today to meet the 17 non home grown list. I think we'll see two of Sokratis, Kolasinac, Elneny and Mustafi dropped out of the squad.
		
Click to expand...

Well we bought a centre half and a defensive midfielder so cant complain on that front, albeit hate the way we went about the Partey deal (just pay the release clause) 

On the downside we really havent cleared out much of the deadwood at all and still have a horrendously inflated wage bill and an unbalanced squad. Expect a few championship sides will be sniffing round for some cheap loans next week (Martinez also an out to for good money to your list)


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2020)

Everton managed to move on Walcott, 50-50 on wages, for the season, and sold Sandro, a gamble that did not come off. We still have Bolassie but hopefully we will loan him out along with Besic, both likely to go to Championship clubs I suspect. Tosun is long term injured so it will be January before we can move him on.

All in all, not too bad on that front now. We have a relatively clear view of the squad.


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## 4LEX (Oct 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			An awesome transfer window for United!
*Cavani.    *            Old stiker who can't play at centre back!
*Van de Beek.  *      Midfielder who can't play at centre back.
*Amad Diallo.    *     18 year old winger who's not Jadon Sancho and can't play at centre back.
*Facundo Pellestri.*  Another 18yr old winger who's not Jadon Sancho and also can't play at centre back.
*Alex Telles. *          Attacking left back who can't play at centre back.
Well done Woodward. 

To be fair, our youth set up is full of terrific young players who will easily get us promoted from The Championship next season!
		
Click to expand...

It's totally bizzare.

United made a big deal about not paying over 30's big wages or agents big fees. Yet they've after a bad start they've gone against that and got Cavani who wasn't even a target until this week. Just screams clueless and panic buy! I do think Cavani if he stays fit will be such a massive upgrade on Martial or Igahlo it will paper over a few cracks for a year or so. They've missed out on Haaland and Werner in the meantime who fit the 'new mould' too and would be better long term prospects and investments. Not to mention Sancho who will be the best right winger/forward in the world for the next decade.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 6, 2020)

4LEX said:



			It's totally bizzare.

United made a big deal about not paying over 30's big wages or agents big fees. Yet they've after a bad start they've gone against that and got Cavani who wasn't even a target until this week. Just screams clueless and panic buy! I do think Cavani if he stays fit will be such a massive upgrade on Martial or Igahlo it will paper over a few cracks for a year or so. They've missed out on Haaland and Werner in the meantime who fit the 'new mould' too and would be better long term prospects and investments. Not to mention* Sancho who will be the best right winger/forward in the world for the next decade*.
		
Click to expand...

Now I really hope he does well and I appreciate everyone has a right to their opinion, but that is a massive statement.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 6, 2020)

4LEX said:



			It's totally bizzare.

United made a big deal about not paying over 30's big wages or agents big fees. Yet they've after a bad start they've gone against that and got Cavani who wasn't even a target until this week. Just screams clueless and panic buy! I do think Cavani if he stays fit will be such a massive upgrade on Martial or Igahlo it will paper over a few cracks for a year or so. They've missed out on Haaland and Werner in the meantime who fit the 'new mould' too and would be better long term prospects and investments. Not to mention Sancho who will be the best right winger/forward in the world for the next decade.
		
Click to expand...

Was watching Harry Redknapp on SSN and he was saying Cavani smacked of a panic buy as he'd apparently been punted around clubs all over Europe before United snapped him up. I guess they are looking at what Ibrahimovic brought a few seasons back and hoping for a similar effect in terms of getting some sort of positive reaction throughout the team. Not sure though. 

I think Walcott back to Southampton is great for the Saints. I think he still has a massive respect and affection for the club that started his career and he perhaps realises with age (31 I believe) and injuries this is perhaps a last chance opportunity and he'll give it a good shot as long as he can stay healthy. I also think he has enough to make a difference to the Saints going forward


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## Papas1982 (Oct 6, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Was watching Harry Redknapp on SSN and he was saying Cavani smacked of a panic buy as he'd apparently been punted around clubs all over Europe before United snapped him up. I guess they are looking at what Ibrahimovic brought a few seasons back and hoping for a similar effect in terms of getting some sort of positive reaction throughout the team. Not sure though.

I think Walcott back to Southampton is great for the Saints. I think he still has a massive respect and affection for the club that started his career and he perhaps realises with age (31 I believe) and injuries this is perhaps a last chance opportunity and he'll give it a good shot as long as he can stay healthy. I also think he has enough to make a difference to the Saints going forward
		
Click to expand...

Walcott has a worse record than Shane Long in the last few years. We already have a winger with no end product in Redmond. 
As much as I’ve always wished him well, Walcott isn’t the answer to any question I’ve heard a Saints fan ask.....


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## USER1999 (Oct 6, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Walcott has a worse record than Shane Long in the last few years. We already have a winger with no end product in Redmond. 
As much as I’ve always wished him well, Walcott isn’t the answer to any question I’ve heard a Saints fan ask.....
		
Click to expand...

Who is the most expensive, useless player we can borrow during the transfer window?


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## Papas1982 (Oct 6, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Who is the most expensive, useless player we can borrow during the transfer window?
		
Click to expand...

Touché!


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## fundy (Oct 6, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Who is the most expensive, useless player we can borrow during the transfer window?
		
Click to expand...


im sure we couldve offered them one lol


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## USER1999 (Oct 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			im sure we couldve offered them one lol
		
Click to expand...

Take your pick from several I can think of. Two of them are German, but I could throw in a Brazilian, and a couple of others.


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## sunshine (Oct 8, 2020)

Slime said:



			An awesome transfer window for United!
*Cavani.    *            Old stiker who can't play at centre back!
*Van de Beek.  *      Midfielder who can't play at centre back.
*Amad Diallo.    *     18 year old winger who's not Jadon Sancho and can't play at centre back.
*Facundo Pellestri.*  Another 18yr old winger who's not Jadon Sancho and also can't play at centre back.
*Alex Telles. *          Attacking left back who can't play at centre back.
Well done Woodward. 

To be fair, our youth set up is full of terrific young players who will easily get us promoted from The Championship next season!
		
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What's the obsession with a centre back? United don't need to look any further than Phil Jones


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2020)

sunshine said:



			What's the obsession with a centre back? United don't need to look any further than Phil Jones 

Click to expand...

I think they sold their best centre back to Roma.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2020)

Slime said:



			An awesome transfer window for United!
*Cavani.    *            Old stiker who can't play at centre back!
*Van de Beek.  *      Midfielder who can't play at centre back.
*Amad Diallo.    *     18 year old winger who's not Jadon Sancho and can't play at centre back.
*Facundo Pellestri.*  Another 18yr old winger who's not Jadon Sancho and also can't play at centre back.
*Alex Telles. *          Attacking left back who can't play at centre back.
Well done Woodward. 

To be fair, our youth set up is full of terrific young players who will easily get us promoted from The Championship next season!
		
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And also sold their best CB who had a great season last season


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## sunshine (Oct 8, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Not to mention Sancho who will be the best right winger/forward in the world for the next decade.
		
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Said without any irony?

If he was from Peru or Macedonia would you be saying this?


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## sunshine (Oct 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Everton managed to move on Walcott, 50-50 on wages, for the season, and sold Sandro, a gamble that did not come off. We still have Bolassie but hopefully we will loan him out along with Besic, both likely to go to Championship clubs I suspect. Tosun is long term injured so it will be January before we can move him on.

All in all, not too bad on that front now. We have a relatively clear view of the squad.
		
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Everton have had a great window. Seemed to have a clear idea of what they needed. Still can't believe they landed Rodriguez, genuine world class player, when was the last time Everton had one of those? Rooney?

Arsenal, Spurs and Villa also look to have done well.

Jury out on Chelsea. They've brought in some fantastic players but looks like a lot of new-comers to integrate in one go. Some of them will take a long time to bed in and some of them won't work out. Contrast with Liverpool who have gradually blended in new additions each season which feels a better way to successfully integrate new players.


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## 4LEX (Oct 8, 2020)

sunshine said:



			Said without any irony?

If he was from Peru or Macedonia would you be saying this?
		
Click to expand...

Time will be the test obviously but happy with my view. 

Already producing world class goal/assist rates from the wing over two seasons. The fact he moved to Germany and got out of the comfort zone will only be a good thing. Another six months or full season ripping it up at Dortmund, he'll be ready for a top side and getting the respect he deserves


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Time will be the test obviously but happy with my view.

Already producing world class goal/assist rates from the wing over two seasons. The fact he moved to Germany and got out of the comfort zone will only be a good thing. Another six months or full season ripping it up at Dortmund, he'll be ready for a top side and getting the respect he deserves 

Click to expand...

Are Dortmund not already a top team? In the last 10 years they have been in the top 3 in the Bundesliga on 8 occasions, winning twice. They are regularly in the last 16 of the CL. There are only a handful of teams above them across Europe, the usual suspects in each country.

Had Sancho moved to Utd this summer it may have improved his bank balance but it would not have been a step up for him, quite the opposite based on recent history and current performances.

Where do you expect him to move to? Real, Liverpool, Bayern, Juve, PSG? (this isn't a sarky question by the way. I don't really follow European clubs that much so I don't know who is on the lookout)


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Are Dortmund not already a top team? In the last 10 years they have been in the top 3 in the Bundesliga on 8 occasions, winning twice. They are regularly in the last 16 of the CL. There are only a handful of teams above them across Europe, the usual suspects in each country.

Had Sancho moved to Utd this summer it may have improved his bank balance but it would not have been a step up for him, quite the opposite based on recent history and current performances.

Where do you expect him to move to? Real, Liverpool, Bayern, Juve, PSG? (this isn't a sarky question by the way. I don't really follow European clubs that much so I don't know who is on the lookout)
		
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I would have him in Liverpool .
He does look the part.


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## sunshine (Oct 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Had Sancho moved to Utd this summer it may have improved his bank balance but it would not have been a step up for him, quite the opposite based on recent history and current performances
		
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I'm really glad for him (and for England) that he hasn't joined Man Yoo. Far better for him to be gaining experience of another league and culture. I wish more English players went abroad to improve their games, but overseas clubs aren't going to meet the wage demands, most of them just aren't good enough.


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## fundy (Oct 8, 2020)

If Winks and Philips is the answer, whats the question???


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## AmandaJR (Oct 8, 2020)

We need fans - can't listen to another massacre of a national anthem by the players!


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			If Winks and Philips is the answer, whats the question???
		
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"Who are the best of a bad bunch this particular week"


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## fundy (Oct 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			"Who are the best of a bad bunch this particular week"
		
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I was thinking more "which midfield do i pick to ensure they dont play a single ball forwards"


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2020)

sunshine said:



			I'm really glad for him (and for England) that he hasn't joined Man Yoo. *Far better for him to be gaining experience of another league* and culture. I wish more English players went abroad to improve their games, but overseas clubs aren't going to meet the wage demands, most of them just aren't good enough.
		
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He has absolutely no experience of the Premier League, so, by your reckoning, he *should* have joined United to gain experience of another league.


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## 4LEX (Oct 9, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Are Dortmund not already a top team? In the last 10 years they have been in the top 3 in the Bundesliga on 8 occasions, winning twice. They are regularly in the last 16 of the CL. There are only a handful of teams above them across Europe, the usual suspects in each country.

Had Sancho moved to Utd this summer it may have improved his bank balance but it would not have been a step up for him, quite the opposite based on recent history and current performances.

Where do you expect him to move to? Real, Liverpool, Bayern, Juve, PSG? (this isn't a sarky question by the way. I don't really follow European clubs that much so I don't know who is on the lookout)
		
Click to expand...

Dortmund are a fun club/feeder club. They play great attacking football, score goals and ultimately won't win anything unless Bayern have a dire season. Bayern have won it 7 times in a row, Dortmund's titles were as long ago as United's under Ferguson! They're a perfect stepping stone. I'd not class them as a top club and maybe that's harsh.

United would be a massive step up given the size and expectations. Regardless of Ole or Woodward they're still in the elite bracket and have won more trophies than Dortmund in the last 5 years despite being a mess! Football changes quick, the right manager, a couple of signings and it'll switch. It doesn't take four years lif the right people are in place. Liverpool went from an average 3rd in 2018 to almost 100 points and a CL in one year with the right signings.

I can't see Liverpool spending £100m on him when Salah is such an incredible player and doing the business. Bayern generally don't pay top price for players and have already got top class wingers so you can rule them out. I think City can also be ruled out due to the fact they'd not resign a former player for such a vast amount. Barcelona, Real, PSG, Juve, United most likely IMO. Chelsea too if some of the new signings don't work out.


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## 4LEX (Oct 9, 2020)

Slime said:



			He has absolutely no experience of the Premier League, so, by your reckoning, he *should* have joined United to gain experience of another league.
		
Click to expand...


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## Reemul (Oct 9, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Dortmund are a fun club/feeder club. They play great attacking football, score goals and ultimately won't win anything unless Bayern have a dire season. Bayern have won it 7 times in a row, Dortmund's titles were as long ago as United's under Ferguson! They're a perfect stepping stone. I'd not class them as a top club and maybe that's harsh.

United would be a massive step up given the size and expectations. Regardless of Ole or Woodward they're still in the elite bracket and have won more trophies than Dortmund in the last 5 years despite being a mess! Football changes quick, the right manager, a couple of signings and it'll switch. It doesn't take four years lif the right people are in place. Liverpool went from an average 3rd in 2018 to almost 100 points and a CL in one year with the right signings.

I can't see Liverpool spending £100m on him when Salah is such an incredible player and doing the business. Bayern generally don't pay top price for players and have already got top class wingers so you can rule them out. I think City can also be ruled out due to the fact they'd not resign a former player for such a vast amount. Barcelona, Real, PSG, Juve, United most likely IMO. Chelsea too if some of the new signings don't work out.
		
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Currently Utd would not be a step up for him, have no idea why he would want to go there and the fact he didn't make a fuss makes me think he wasn't bothered either. There will be plenty more options for him in the future. Man Utd are going to be another Liverpool, living on the Ferguson memories for years yet telling everyone they should be the ones, are the ones and living on past glories for a while it just gets tiring hearing it all the time.


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2020)

Here comes the premier league cash grab, no real surprise its time to tap the fans for more money having spent over £1bn in the tfr window

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54481945


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## SteveW86 (Oct 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			Here comes the premier league cash grab, no real surprise its time to tap the fans for more money having spent over £1bn in the tfr window

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54481945

Click to expand...

They should give season ticket holders a code to get access for free.


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## GB72 (Oct 9, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			They should give season ticket holders a code to get access for free.
		
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That is what BT Sport did for Premiership rugby, every season ticket holder was given codes to access their team's matches for no extra cost (did not need to be a BT subscriber etc)


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## Stuart_C (Oct 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			Here comes the premier league cash grab, no real surprise its time to tap the fans for more money having spent over £1bn in the tfr window

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54481945

Click to expand...

Just as the ale houses are getting shut 😀


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just as the ale houses are getting shut 😀
		
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not gonna see John ordering the PPV and 30 of his mates piling round to watch it is it lol


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## IainP (Oct 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			Here comes the premier league cash grab, no real surprise its time to tap the fans for more money having spent over £1bn in the tfr window

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54481945

Click to expand...

Here to stay?
Or really will be temporary/interim...


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2020)

IainP said:



			Here to stay?
Or really will be temporary/interim...
		
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cant see them giving it up once they get the revenue stream established


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 9, 2020)

IainP said:



			Here to stay?
Or really will be temporary/interim...
		
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Reportedly until fans are back in and clubs can generate gate money but can't see it going anywhere soon. Once it's up and running they'll find a back door to keep it. I can't really be bothered to pay close to £15 to watch my mob get stuffed every week so I'll stick to what the offerings on Sky and BT are and use MOTD for the goals and highlights of the rest


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## GreiginFife (Oct 9, 2020)

Thing is, PPV football has been tried already and bombed. Like really bombed. 
As an interim for people that had season tickets or were likely to go to games and pay for tickets I think it will have legs. But once people are allowed back in to grounds, it will likely die off again as people's money that went to PPV starts going back to tickets.


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2020)

https://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/pl-slam-damaging-project-plan/185256

Project big picture, better known as project power grab.

Disgusting behaviour from the big clubs yet again and damaging for football, trying to capitalise on the uncertainty were currently in

Almost as if its a reflection of the country as whole currently


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 11, 2020)

Reducing the league to 18 clubs, maybe. Scrapping the league cup, no from me. Clubs caring about the pyramid, no chance - all about their own interests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54502459


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## pauljames87 (Oct 11, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Reducing the league to 18 clubs, maybe. Scrapping the league cup, no from me. Clubs caring about the pyramid, no chance - all about their own interests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54502459

Click to expand...

West ham to get special status... Hmm anything to do with this being put forward by two clubs owned by Americans and a take over by an unnamed yank leaked for us

Only thing I liked through whole thing was play offs combined for relegation and promotion


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			West ham to get special status... Hmm anything to do with this being put forward by two clubs owned by Americans and a take over by an unnamed yank leaked for us

Only thing I liked through whole thing was play offs combined for relegation and promotion
		
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Agree about the play offs. This smacks of an ulterior motive despite all the soft talking publicity


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 11, 2020)

fundy said:



https://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/pl-slam-damaging-project-plan/185256

Project big picture, better known as project power grab.

Disgusting behaviour from the big clubs yet again and damaging for football, trying to capitalise on the uncertainty were currently in

Almost as if its a reflection of the country as whole currently 

Click to expand...

Agreed. The big clubs (including my own), trying to ringfence eternal premiership membership, following on from what has happened in the CL over the years. Its wrong. Everyone should have a chance of being in the prem and also being relegated.


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## Kellfire (Oct 12, 2020)

Disgusting from the big clubs. Trying to grab power while dangling security in front of the lower league clubs to try to guilt trip the other PL clubs into voting for it. I’d hate if we ended up like La Liga with a couple of clubs pulling the strings.


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## Fromtherough (Oct 12, 2020)

It’s shocking what they’re trying to implement under the guise of helping the EFL. This point, from an article I read highlights the the big issue for me: ‘Special status for the nine longest serving clubs – and the vote of only six of those “long-term shareholders” required to make major changes, including amending rules and regulations, agreeing contracts, removal of the chief executive, and a wide-ranging veto including on club ownership. So the “Top Six” (Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City and Spurs) and three others will get to decide who the CEO is, what the league rules are, and who can and can’t own a club’. It’s blatant that they’re effectively wanting to create a closed shop.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 12, 2020)

The irony meter is exploding at the suggestion by the PL that this 'is a power grab'. Remind me how the PL came about again?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2020)

my take

I can understand why some clubs want to look to have more power , it’s the start to going towards Club owning telly rights a bit like La Liga - but I don’t agree with it

20 to 18 teams - will reduce the amount of games , think the Promotion and Relegation has potential 

The money going to the EFL is a good thing 

Community Shield - well it’s only one game so not sure what that achieves 

The big one is the League Cup 

Always thought that teams that qualified for Europe don’t enter it


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2020)

Football is just big business now so this is not a surprise.
It’s wether they are allowed to get away with it.
They want some bang for their bucks.
If you ask Tesco to subsidise the local corner shop I am sure there would be conditions attached!


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## Pathetic Shark (Oct 12, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Disgusting from the big clubs. Trying to grab power while dangling security in front of the lower league clubs to try to guilt trip the other PL clubs into voting for it. I’d hate if we ended up like La Liga with a couple of clubs pulling the strings.
		
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Or Scotland …..


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2020)

West Ham Everton and Southampton given "special status" alongside the big six. Really? Why? Seems West Ham (if you can believe anything to do with this fiasco) against it (and good on them imo) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54505270

I thought every side played in the league cup but those in Europe had byes until round three (or four?). Most put out a weak side until the semi (and even then not always) but always seem to put a good side out when there is a trophy at stake in the final and doesn't it get a Europa league spot so good for some.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 12, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



*West Ham Everton and Southampton given "special status" alongside the big six. Really? Why?* Seems West Ham (if you can believe anything to do with this fiasco) against it (and good on them imo) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54505270

I thought every side played in the league cup but those in Europe had byes until round three (or four?). Most put out a weak side until the semi (and even then not always) but always seem to put a good side out when there is a trophy at stake in the final and doesn't it get a Europa league spot so good for some.
		
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Whilst against the idea, id say it’s pretty obvious why. 

Just look at total years in top flight (since Pl inception). Imo Everton should be the only team with it though as they’ve had continued service.


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## fundy (Oct 12, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst against the idea, id say it’s pretty obvious why.

Just look at total years in top flight (since Pl inception). Imo Everton should be the only team with it though as they’ve had continued service.
		
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call me cynical but im guessing they came to the numbers to ensure they can get through any current voting restrictions (id be very surprised if there isnt some other concealed bribes to the other existing prem sides currently to get the 14 of 20 votes they need)


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## Papas1982 (Oct 12, 2020)

fundy said:



			call me cynical but im guessing they came to the numbers to ensure they can get through any current voting restrictions (id be very surprised if there isnt some other concealed bribes to the other existing prem sides currently to get the 14 of 20 votes they need)
		
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Maybe. But even if that’s the case, id say my point covers why those 3 were chosen Or at least could be argued that they warrant it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Maybe. But even if that’s the case, id say my point covers why those 3 were chosen Or at least could be argued that they warrant it.
		
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Can see an argument for Everton but certainly not the other two. Definitely a snide way to make sure the current voting (14 out of 20) gets vetoed. I still think it's a shocking plan


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

What about Villa and Newcastle ? They have been in the Premiership more seasons than West Ham and Southampton. In fact longer than Man City. 

Whilst googling the above, I checked out which teams have had just one season in the top tier, not just Premiership. There are six teams, three that are in my memory and three not so easy. Anyone get them without google assistance ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 12, 2020)

It was explained on the BBC that those additional clubs were listed due to time served in the top tier, in recent times. Not saying it is right but that was the explanation.


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## TheDiablo (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			What about Villa and Newcastle ? They have been in the Premiership more seasons than West Ham and Southampton. In fact longer than Man City. 

Whilst googling the above, I checked out which teams have had just one season in the top tier, not just Premiership. There are six teams, three that are in my memory and three not so easy. Anyone get them without google assistance ?
		
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Off the top of my head Oldham, Swindon, Blackpool


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			What about Villa and Newcastle ? They have been in the Premiership more seasons than West Ham and Southampton. In fact longer than Man City. 

Whilst googling the above, I checked out which teams have had just one season in the top tier, not just Premiership. There are six teams, three that are in my memory and three not so easy. Anyone get them without google assistance ?
		
Click to expand...

I'll go:
Barnsley
Swindon Town
Carlisle 
Oxford

Can't even guess at any others, well I could but I don't think random guesses are the point of this, mine are educated guesses 😉. Good pub quiz question 👍


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## TheDiablo (Oct 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll go:
Barnsley
Swindon Town
Carlisle
Oxford

Can't even guess at any others, well I could but I don't think random guesses are the point of this, mine are educated guesses 😉. Good pub quiz question 👍
		
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Carlisle and Oxford definitely aren't right.. Barnsley a v good shout


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## Beezerk (Oct 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll go:
Barnsley
Swindon Town
Carlisle
Oxford

Can't even guess at any others, well I could but I don't think random guesses are the point of this, mine are educated guesses 😉. Good pub quiz question 👍
		
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Barnsley stayed up iirc. Some pundit said he'd get his head shaved if they stayed up and he got it done in the middle of the pitch 🤣


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## Stuart_C (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			What about Villa and Newcastle ? They have been in the Premiership more seasons than West Ham and Southampton. In fact longer than Man City. 

Whilst googling the above, I checked out which teams have had just one season in the top tier, not just Premiership. There are six teams, three that are in my memory and three not so easy. Anyone get them without google assistance ?
		
Click to expand...

Ooooh I like these teasers...but canon's think of 5


1. Oxford
2. Oldham 
3. Grimsby 
4.Blackpool
5.Barnsley
6.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ooooh I like these teasers...but canon's think of 5


1. Oxford
2. Oldham
3. Grimsby
4.Blackpool
5.Barnsley
6.
		
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I'm not going to Google this, too much fun, but surely Joe Royle's team had more than 1 year in the top league? Incidentally, how good was Earl Barret for that period? I remember him being a really quality CB for a few years, never embarrassed.


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## TheDiablo (Oct 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ooooh I like these teasers...but canon's think of 5


1. Oxford
2. Oldham
3. Grimsby
4.Blackpool
5.Barnsley
6.
		
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Grimsby have never been in the Prem. Nor Oxford

Other 3 plus Swindon is what I've got. 

For 2x I have Huddersfield and Bradford. 

I'm normally quite good at these, I'm leaning towards Rich looking at a dodgy source tbh


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			What about Villa and Newcastle ? They have been in the Premiership more seasons than West Ham and Southampton. In fact longer than Man City. 

Whilst googling the above, I checked out which teams have had just one season in the top tier, not just Premiership. There are six teams, three that are in my memory and three not so easy. Anyone get them without google assistance ?
		
Click to expand...

Top tier, as in since football began!
No idea, but not Blackpool, they were 1st Division in 50’s,
Carlisle were 1st Division in 70’s, I think
Oldham have had more than 1, I think.

Good shouts on: Barnsley and Swindon.

No idea on who else, but could be a Club from the early 1900’s, ie
Accrington Stanley, Bishop Auckland, etc. Come on Rich!


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## TheDiablo (Oct 12, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Top tier, as in since football began!
No idea, but not Blackpool, they were 1st Division in 50’s,
Carlisle were 1st Division in 70’s, I think
Oldham have had more than 1, I think.

Good shouts on: Barnsley and Swindon.

No idea on who else, but could be a Club from the early 1900’s, ie
Accrington Stanley, Bishop Auckland, etc. Come on Rich!
		
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Haha completely overlooked top tier

Ignore me, back in a box.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Barnsley stayed up iirc. Some pundit said he'd get his head shaved if they stayed up and he got it done in the middle of the pitch 🤣
		
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Wasn’t that Bradford? 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2020)

Just seen it’s not just Prem so that means it’s not Blackpool 

1. Swindon
2. Barnsley
3. Leyton Orient 
4. Carlisle 
5. Northampton

no idea about the 6th - prob some team that is no more and disappeared after the way ?


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## Beezerk (Oct 12, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Wasn’t that Bradford? 🤷‍♂️
		
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Aaah good shout 🙌 
New it began with B 🤣


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2020)

Think I've just seen the answer. Not sure anyone will get it without google


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2020)

Or someone who has changed their name like Small Heath or The Wednesday ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think I've just seen the answer. Not sure anyone will get it without google
		
Click to expand...

Did it flash up on your screen by accident?


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Did it flash up on your screen by accident?

Click to expand...

No I googled it. Very surprised


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No I googled it. Very surprised
		
Click to expand...

So no thinking about it then.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or someone who has changed their name like Small Heath or The Wednesday ?
		
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Not sure Orient or Northampton were in Div 1 were they? Good shout if they did. I thought Carlisle had a couple of seasons in the 70’s, but could be wrong.


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll go:
Barnsley
Swindon Town
Carlisle
Oxford

Can't even guess at any others, well I could but I don't think random guesses are the point of this, mine are educated guesses 😉. Good pub quiz question 👍
		
Click to expand...

Good start. Carlisle were top of the league after three games, but went down. The season they were in top division, Man Utd were in second division.

As a Reading supporter I don’t recognise Swindon were ever in the first division, but fortunately it was one season. Oxford had a good team in the 80’s, won the league cup or whatever it was called then. Definitely more than one season. John Aldridge was their star forward.

Barnsley another good shout.

Those were the three teams I knew, but two more I thought would have been in top tier more than one season.


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

If anyone gets all six they have definitely googled.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Not sure Orient or Northampton were in Div 1 were they? Good shout if they did. I thought Carlisle had a couple of seasons in the 70’s, but could be wrong.
		
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Orient and Northampton definitely did - Carlisle maybe more than one ? But seen their name before with this type of question. No idea about any others- trying to think of non league teams that could have been up there


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 12, 2020)

Wrexham? I can remember them being a good cup team in the 70's, Mickey Thomas era. Did they manage a year in the top tier?


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

Fourth team were another southern one, that just missed out on another season in first division when pipped by Carlisle.

Fifth team has one of the best players ever to play for Reading as their manager.

Sixth team is the tricky one !


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2020)

Can remember Wrexham during their cup runs but not in top league ? 

Maybe someone like Bury , they did say something about Brentford returning to the top league last season so maybe them ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			Fourth team were another southern one, that just missed out on another season in first division when pipped by Carlisle.

Fifth team has one of the best players ever to play for Reading as their manager.

Sixth team is the tricky one !
		
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Keith Curle manager at Northampton and he played for Reading didn’t he ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2020)

Was thinking of weird teams that won the FA Cup, Wanderers, Royal Engineers, Old Etonians etc, even Queens Park played in the Cup, maybe one of them only had 1 season in top flight?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2020)

Clapham Rovers ?


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

Definitely non league team, based in Derbyshire I think. 🤔


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can remember Wrexham during their cup runs but not in top league ?

Maybe someone like Bury , they did say something about Brentford returning to the top league last season so maybe them ?
		
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Bury won the FA Cup, so imagine they were in top tier more than one season ?


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## Tashyboy (Oct 12, 2020)

Pinched off fb

As Man Utd and Liverpool unveil plans to reduce the Premier League from 20 to 18 teams, football fans everywhere agree it’d be much better without them.


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			Definitely non league team, based in Derbyshire I think. 🤔
		
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Not Preston ? Mmmm


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			Not Preston ? Mmmm
		
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If you listen carefully you can hear Tom Finney turning in his grave at that suggestion 😁


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you listen carefully you can hear Tom Finney turning in his grave at that suggestion 😁
		
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It is a clue. Not many North Ends !


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			It is a clue. Not many North Ends !
		
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👏👏👏


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			Definitely non league team, based in Derbyshire I think. 🤔
		
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Chesterfield?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			It is a clue. Not many North Ends !
		
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Ah, I got the wrong end of your post.


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Chesterfield?
		
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I can’t remember this team being in the league. Wasn’t even sure where the town was until I googled it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			I can’t remember this team being in the league. Wasn’t even sure where the town was until I googled it.

Click to expand...

Famous for its crooked church spire.

I also threw up on its streets as a child when my dad picked up a Datsun from a Chesterfield dealer, car sick. That probably didn't make it into wikipedia though.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			What about Villa and Newcastle ? They have been in the Premiership more seasons than West Ham and Southampton. In fact longer than Man City. 

Whilst googling the above, I checked out which teams have had just one season in the top tier, not just Premiership. There are six teams, three that are in my memory and three not so easy. Anyone get them without google assistance ?
		
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top of my head, swindon, carlisle although did new brighton get in it years ago for one season?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			I can’t remember this team being in the league. Wasn’t even sure where the town was until I googled it.

Click to expand...

Behave Do you not remember them reaching the Cup semi final in 1997 drawing 3-3 with Boro before losing the replay, all while being in Div 2 (now Div 1), knew they had history, so worth a stab.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ooooh I like these teasers...but canon's think of 5


1. Oxford
2. Oldham
3. Grimsby
4.Blackpool
5.Barnsley
6.
		
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Oxford a possible, went there once about 87, dont remember them up before or since. I think barnsley have been up more than once. Werent Blackpool a big club in the 50's?

Not sure on Grimsby, but Oldham were up for a few season, iirc.

One of the Bristols?


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Behave Do you not remember them reaching the Cup semi final in 1997 drawing 3-3 with Boro before losing the replay, all while being in Div 2 (now Div 1), knew they had history, so worth a stab.
		
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I don't mean Chesterfield I mean the sixth team. 

I have two small statues in the garden from Chesterfield market. Kevin Davies was part of the cup run team. We beat them 4-2 to stay up on the last game of the season once. Losing 2-0 at half time, but the mighty Biscuitmen roared back. About time they got that spire straightened as well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2020)

I take it:
Swindon, Barnsley, Carlisle all confirmed.
LP went for Northampton and Orient, I think Rich confirmed,
So missing 1, if above correct, and they are now Non-League, possibly from Derbyshire if Richart’s geography knowledge is to be trusted.

Haven’t got a clue, try again tomorrow.


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oxford a possible, went there once about 87, dont remember them up before or since. I think barnsley have been up more than once. Werent Blackpool a big club in the 50's?

Not sure on Grimsby, but Oldham were up for a few season, iirc.

One of the Bristols?
		
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Dont you remember watching the Mathews Cup final ? Blackpool were a decent team in the 50's.

I remember seeing Bristol City playing in the first division. Went to Ashton Gate a few times when on courses with Midland Bank. 

Oldham were a decent team under Joe Royle. No one liked playing them away mid week in winter.

Always had a soft spot for Barnsley. We beat them 7-0 at home when Michael Parkinson was at the game. After every goal we were singing Parky Parky what's the score. He wrote about it in the Sunday paper he wrote for.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			Dont you remember watching the Mathews Cup final ? Blackpool were a decent team in the 50's.

I remember seeing Bristol City playing in the first division. Went to Ashton Gate a few times when on courses with Midland Bank.

Oldham were a decent team under Joe Royle. No one liked playing them away mid week in winter.

Always had a soft spot for Barnsley. We beat them 7-0 at home when Michael Parkinson was at the game. After every goal we were singing Parky Parky what's the score. He wrote about it in the Sunday paper he wrote for.
		
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No, but my grandad used to go away in the 40's and 50's on the rattler to the big Lancashire games like Preston and Blackpool, so thought they had been up before.

Bristol city was late 70's I think  - every panini sticker pack of 6 seemed to have a Gerry Gow in them, could have given you 20 x Gerry Gows for a St. Mirren silver club badge back then. 

Oldham is even colder than Stoke, midweek.

Bradford park avenue? Mansfield? Bishop Auckland?


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 12, 2020)

I know the answer to this one because it came up in a pub quiz I went to a couple of years ago....

Glossop


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

Talking of Bristol City, reminded me of Paul Cheesley. Really good player, quick and good in the air. He was being talked about as playing for England under Don Revie. First game Bristol played back in the first division he scored the winner against Arsenal away. Second game got an awful injury against Stoke, clashed with Peter Shilton going for a cross. Never played again.

Just shows that all the top players that had great careers playing for club and country could have just been a Paul Cheesley away from their career being ended.


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## richart (Oct 12, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I know the answer to this one because it came up in a pub quiz I went to a couple of years ago....

Glossop
		
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But do you know the other five ?


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 12, 2020)

richart said:



			But do you know the other five ?

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Haha! I would have guessed Barnsley and Swindon, none of the others though.

I couldn’t believe glossop had a top flight side at any point when I heard the answer at the quiz (I think it was smallest town to have a top tier side, and the clue related to north end but was clear it wasn’t Preston). Suffice to say no one got the answer right. Sticks in the memory once you know though!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2020)

Glossop!! ffs, wouldn’t of got that in a million years! Off to google.


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## Captainron (Oct 13, 2020)

This new proposal is a weird one for me. It has some merit but will obviously be divisive because clubs lower down the ladder aspire to be in the Premier League as it stands. 

As with many things this isn’t really a local thing but rather an international one.

How many of the clubs below the Premier League are internationally relevant? I would say that only those that have been in the Premier League previously are widely known outside of these shores. 

So as far as a product goes, the clubs in the second tier and down are not attractive to the rest of the world where the growth in revenue will come from. So unfortunately someone sitting in Kazakhstan or Belize who has a PC and internet has just as much pull on this issue as someone who sits in the stands each week. 

Some sort of breakaway will happen at some point where the top teams take their product away and set up on their own. 

A European Super league has been talked about for ages but hasn’t happened for various reasons but current Pandemic is a perfect economic catalyst for a breakaway in some of the big clubs eyes. 

This may be the first shot in a war that ends with the football landscape changing out of all recognition.


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## USER1999 (Oct 13, 2020)

Have heard today that part of the proposal would retrospectively give Spurs a refund on some of their stadium costs, and also part fund a new one for Liverpool. If true, this is a disgrace. You should always have to fund your own home.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Glossop!! ffs, wouldn’t of got that in a million years! Off to google.
		
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I was thinking that when I read it. Other teams mentioned, and wrong, had some logic to them. Glossop, never would have got it even if I was left to name teams for the rest of the year.

Great question @richart , a nice diversion from everything else going on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 13, 2020)

Glossop ?!?! Well that’s a bit of knowledge that will be retained for future quizzes. Cheers for that Rich 

As for the proposal - it’s the first step towards a European League - and that’s going to be the worst that has happened. American owners look at their sports and believe it’s the blueprint - doesn’t always work


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 13, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Have heard today that part of the proposal would retrospectively give Spurs a refund on some of their stadium costs, and also part fund a new one for Liverpool. If true, this is a disgrace. You should always have to fund your own home.
		
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Tell that to West Ham and Man City


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## fundy (Oct 13, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Have heard today that part of the proposal would retrospectively give Spurs a refund on some of their stadium costs, and also part fund a new one for Liverpool. If true, this is a disgrace. You should always have to fund your own home.
		
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125m and 30m respectively on all accounts

6 sides with their noses well and truly in the troughs, ring fencing what isnt "rightfully" theirs, including my club sadly


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Agreed. The big clubs (including my own), trying to ringfence eternal premiership membership, following on from what has happened in the CL over the years. Its wrong. Everyone should have a chance of being in the prem and also being relegated.
		
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This sums up how I feel about it; it isn't the right direction for English football to go in.

Removing parachute payments makes the financial risk required of Championship teams being promoted even greater than it already is. A smaller league will make staying in the league even harder.

The playoff system of having 16th place join the championship sides vying for promotion is just giving an advantage to a premier league side. The playoffs are more than entertaining enough without introducing another team to them which has the benefit of premier league millions for at least a season giving them an unfair advantage. West Ham finished 16th last season, I'm sure we can all agree that West Ham would have demolished Fulham and avoided relegation.

Although the PL would be giving more money to the football league, it would be making the PL more exclusive and less accessible. Also, with two fewer teams, there would be even more money available to the remaining 18 sides, I don't think anything is really being given away to the football league here, to suggest it is, frankly is ridiculous.

I have the benefit of supporting a side that isn't always in the PL, often it's not. And that's fine with me. It's not the be all and end all, that's for sure. The joy of a promotion winning season is better than the reality of being in the top flight, but if you take away the hope that comes with promotion, what's left? Football needs hope, that's what fans thrive on, this proposal takes away hope for a lot of football league clubs as the bridge between the PL and everyone else widens.


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## GB72 (Oct 13, 2020)

As I have said many a time, my knowledge of football is pretty minimal but I follow the news. I suppose the only thing that intrigues me is whether this deal is better for the clubs below the top 2 divisions. If there is 25% of the premiership revenue being split between all of the divisions, would the be a benefit and an increase in revenue for those clubs lower down the system. Those clubs, and their supporters I guess, would have little concern about what is going on in the upper echelons of the premiership when compared with just having the income to stay afloat.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Have heard today that part of the proposal would retrospectively give Spurs a refund on some of their stadium costs, and also part fund a new one for Liverpool. If true, this is a disgrace. You should always have to fund your own home.
		
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Totally agree.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			This sums up how I feel about it; it isn't the right direction for English football to go in.

Removing parachute payments makes the financial risk required of Championship teams being promoted even greater than it already is. A smaller league will make staying in the league even harder.

The playoff system of having 16th place join the championship sides vying for promotion is just giving an advantage to a premier league side. The playoffs are more than entertaining enough without introducing another team to them which has the benefit of premier league millions for at least a season giving them an unfair advantage. West Ham finished 16th last season, I'm sure we can all agree that West Ham would have demolished Fulham and avoided relegation.

Although the PL would be giving more money to the football league, it would be making the PL more exclusive and less accessible. Also, with two fewer teams, there would be even more money available to the remaining 18 sides, I don't think anything is really being given away to the football league here, to suggest it is, frankly is ridiculous.

I have the benefit of supporting a side that isn't always in the PL, often it's not. And that's fine with me. It's not the be all and end all, that's for sure. The joy of a promotion winning season is better than the reality of being in the top flight, but if you take away the hope that comes with promotion, what's left? Football needs hope, that's what fans thrive on, this proposal takes away hope for a lot of football league clubs as the bridge between the PL and everyone else widens.
		
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Agreed, although I'm not dead against the 16th prem side entering the play offs, as can see both sides on that one. I get your point about them having had the extra money, but they are probably low on confidence for how many beatings they have taken in that season.

I think the league cup should stay, as also a good competition for kids to show their mettle in coming through, maybe just tweak it by having a single semi game instead of 2.

If they are trying to lessen the number of games, get rid of friendly internationals, that should get rid of 4-6 games a season.


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



*Agreed, although I'm not dead against the 16th prem side entering the play offs, as can see both sides on that one. I get your point about them having had the extra money, but they are probably low on confidence for how many beatings they have taken in that season.*

I think the league cup should stay, as also a good competition for kids to show their mettle in coming through, maybe just tweak it by having a single semi game instead of 2.

If they are trying to lessen the number of games, get rid of friendly internationals, that should get rid of 4-6 games a season.
		
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I hear what you're saying, but the playoffs are great entertainment already, what does this add other than giving a PL side another bite of the cherry in terms of avoiding losing the benefit of the PL gravy train?

I see this as a good thing only for the teams that are worried they might finish 16th. It makes the PL less accessible than it currently is for championship sides.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I hear what you're saying, but the playoffs are great entertainment already, what does this add other than giving a PL side another bite of the cherry in terms of avoiding losing the benefit of the PL gravy train?

I see this as a good thing only for the teams that are worried they might finish 16th. It makes the PL less accessible than it currently is for championship sides.
		
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Playoffs are a con.
The league position doesn't lie so why playoffs ?
A team could be 20pts ahead of nearest rival yet 2 bad games and they stay where they are.
Just go 3 up 3 down ..


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 13, 2020)

Less league or cup games allows the big boys to fit in more long haul tours, show games abroad etc. I doubt very few will use the time to rest.


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Playoffs are a con.
The league position doesn't lie so why playoffs ?
A team could be 20pts ahead of nearest rival yet 2 bad games and they stay where they are.
Just go 3 up 3 down ..
		
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Personally, I think the playoffs are great. Teams all the way down to mid table still have something to play for right through to the end of the season, and the matches are great entertainment.

I think the statistics show that teams finishing third have the best record in the playoffs, but yes, they are the ones that lose out under the current system.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I hear what you're saying, but the playoffs are great entertainment already, what does this add other than giving a PL side another bite of the cherry in terms of avoiding losing the benefit of the PL gravy train?

I see this as a good thing only for the teams that are worried they might finish 16th. It makes the PL less accessible than it currently is for championship sides.
		
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As I said, I'm not passionate in my argument for this, but it goes back to the "everyone knows what they have to do at the beginning of the season" - if you finish 3rd you arent definitely going up, same with if you finish 16th.

I would agree that the Championship clubs should get some advantage, if there can be one, but cant see one under the present system.

Maybe if the "final" was played as a one off, the Championship team have home advantage. Either that or if it ends in a draw at Wembley after 90 minutes the Championship side goes up. Its up to the PL team to beat them.That could be fun.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Playoffs are a con.
The league position doesn't lie so why playoffs ?
A team could be 20pts ahead of nearest rival yet 2 bad games and they stay where they are.
Just go 3 up 3 down ..
		
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I agree with them, and as said before, if you dont finish in the top 2, you know the score at the beginning of the season.

I think it makes the league more exciting through to the death more often. With 6 games to go, on average relegation is between 4-6 teams, promotion (if to 3 automatic places" the same, which in a 24 team league can mean that half have sod all to play for for the last 6-10 games. With the play offs you can have more like 3/4 of the teams with something to play for with 6 games still to go - on average.


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			As I said, I'm not passionate in my argument for this, but it goes back to the *"everyone knows what they have to do at the beginning of the season"* - if you finish 3rd you arent definitely going up, same with if you finish 16th.

I would agree that the Championship clubs should get some advantage, if there can be one, but cant see one under the present system.

Maybe if the "final" was played as a one off, the Championship team have home advantage. Either that or if it ends in a draw at Wembley after 90 minutes the Championship side goes up. That could be fun.
		
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I've highlighted the bit that I think should be adhered to, if you finish bottom three in the PL, you're getting relegated and three teams are coming up in your place. Getting out of the championship is hard enough as it is, why make it harder?

It only benefits existing PL sides that already have a big advantage. I agree it could be fun to watch, but the playoffs already are great. They've delivered some magic moments; Man City v Gillingham (not Championship, admittedly), Watford v Leicester, one of the best games I remember watching as a kid was Reading v Bolton! If it aint broke, don't fix it!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree with them, and as said before, if you dont finish in the top 2, you know the score at the beginning of the season.

I think it makes the league more exciting through to the death more often. With 6 games to go, on average relegation is between 4-6 teams, promotion (if to 3 automatic places" the same, which in a 24 team league can mean that half have sod all to play for for the last 6-10 games. With the play offs you can have more like 3/4 of the teams with something to play for with 6 games still to go - on average.
		
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It’s that true of any league system though?
I just can’t see why a team finishing well above another all season has to play them again in what is basically a cup tie.
Why not use a FedEx cup system ?
So any team four or more points ahead get a goal start.
So if your 8 points ahead you are 2-0 up before the kick off.
At least that gives them some advantage for their league form.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s that true of any league system though?
I just can’t see why a team finishing well above another all season has to play them again in what is basically a cup tie.
Why not use a FedEx cup system ?
So any team four or more points ahead get a goal start.
So if your 8 points ahead you are 2-0 up before the kick off.
At least that gives them some advantage for their league form.
		
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Yes, at one extreme, and at the other one may finish above the other on goals scored only.

The prem has the europa to fight for if you dont get top 4, otherwise there are a lot more matches with sod all on them, which to me is the bigger no-no.


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s that true of any league system though?
I just can’t see why a team finishing well above another all season has to play them again in what is basically a cup tie.
Why not use a FedEx cup system ?
So any team four or more points ahead get a goal start.
So if your 8 points ahead you are 2-0 up before the kick off.
At least that gives them some advantage for their league form.
		
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At the start of the season, no club knows where they will finish in the league. I haven't checked, but I'd be amazed if clubs finishing third that have missed out haven't benefited from finishing 4th, 5th and 6th and having a crack at going up in other seasons.

I don't think any championship team would want to change the system because it's an opportunity more than it's a risk.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			At the start of the season, no club knows where they will finish in the league. I haven't checked, but I'd be amazed if clubs finishing third that have missed out haven't benefited from finishing 4th, 5th and 6th and having a crack at going up in other seasons.

I don't think any championship team would want to change the system because it's an opportunity more than it's a risk.
		
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Yes I see your reason.
But I just don’t think a team that finishes well above another in a league should have to play in a cup tie to settle something that you had all year to sort out.
A bit of loss of form late on costs the better team promotion.
Just my opinion ,dosnt affect me but the supporters of those teams can’t be happy.


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I see your reason.
But I just don’t think a team that finishes well above another in a league should have to play in a cup tie to settle something that you had all year to sort out.
A bit of loss of form late on costs the better team promotion.
Just my opinion ,dosnt affect me but the supporters of those teams can’t be happy.
		
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I agree, it's a bitter pill to swallow. I think the team finishing 3rd goes up around 40% of the time though.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I agree, it's a bitter pill to swallow. I think the team finishing 3rd goes up around 40% of the time though.
		
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60/40 not great odds 
So the team finishing third dosnt go up 60% of the time.
That’s not how a league works imo.


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			60/40 not great odds
So the team finishing third dosnt go up 60% of the time.
That’s not how a league works imo.

Click to expand...

Which club specifically do you see as being the big loser of the playoff system?

What I'm getting at is, other than a point of principle in relation to how a league works, which is a valid point of principle, which clubs would actually want the system removed?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2020)

Why should PL teams dictate how teams in the Championship are promoted.

If this change was being led by Championship teams then fair enough, it’s not, it’s PL protecting 16th.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Which club specifically do you see as being the big loser of the playoff system?

What I'm getting at is, other than a point of principle in relation to how a league works, which is a valid point of principle, which clubs would actually want the system removed?
		
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Any team that finishes with more points but dosnt get promoted I would say.
As I said it dosnt really effect me .
I do remember Leeds fans were not happy last year or maybe the year before. But ok now!
The teams in the top half of the league are probably happy.
But just can’t get my head around how it’s fair to finish miles ahead of a team that gets promoted and you don’t because of a playoff.
My idea of a playoff is when you have tied and need a decider!
They have 40 games approx to sort it out over the season.
Is it a big money maker ,it must be?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Why should PL teams dictate how teams in the Championship are promoted.

If this change was being led by Championship teams then fair enough, it’s not, it’s PL protecting 16th.
		
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Might have something to do with the money they are putting in.
It’s being led by lower teams asking for help.
But strings are attached.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Any team that finishes with more points but dosnt get promoted I would say.
As I said it dosnt really effect me .
I do remember Leeds fans were not happy last year or maybe the year before. But ok now!
The teams in the top half of the league are probably happy.
But just can’t get my head around how it’s fair to finish miles ahead of a team that gets promoted and you don’t because of a playoff.
My idea of a playoff is when you have tied and need a decider!
They have 40 games approx to sort it out over the season.
Is it a big money maker ,it must be?
		
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If it was such an issue across all 3 Leagues, Clubs would of had it changed by now.

Yes, I accept some fans from some Clubs get irritated by it, but that’s only when it directly impacts them, they don’t have an issue at the start of the season.


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## GB72 (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Any team that finishes with more points but dosnt get promoted I would say.
As I said it dosnt really effect me .
I do remember Leeds fans were not happy last year or maybe the year before. But ok now!
The teams in the top half of the league are probably happy.
But just can’t get my head around how it’s fair to finish miles ahead of a team that gets promoted and you don’t because of a playoff.
My idea of a playoff is when you have tied and need a decider!
They have 40 games approx to sort it out over the season.
Is it a big money maker ,it must be?
		
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Guessing from the point of view of the FA it is another sold out day at Wembley with all of the associated spend that goes with that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Might have something to do with the money they are putting in.
It’s being led by lower teams asking for help.
But strings are attached.
		
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Proposed, that’s all, trying financial blackmail to protect their own future.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			If it was such an issue across all 3 Leagues, Clubs would of had it changed by now.

Yes, I accept some fans from some Clubs get irritated by it, but that’s only when it directly impacts them, they don’t have an issue at the start of the season.
		
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The days of what fans think ended a long time ago.
It’s just business now.
Money talks , that’s why imo the PL Big boys will get what they want.


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## GB72 (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Might have something to do with the money they are putting in.
It’s being led by lower teams asking for help.
But strings are attached.
		
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This is what has grabbed my attention. All of the teams below the Premier league need bailing out to some extent and are looking to the Premier league teams to do it. All well and good but they need to be expected to hand something back in return. The Premier League pay them the money they need for a lifeline, stabalise their income going forward and remove the financial benefit of relegated teams getting a parachute payment. In exchange they want the team in 16th place to have a chance to retain their Premiership status. Plus they are bailing out the FA to the tune of £100 million as well. Again, coming from someone who is only a passing football supporter, it does not seem to be the worst deal in the world. The bits about voting rights etc in the Premier League itself is a bit more suspect but, again, I suspect that it is the top 6 clubs who will be footing much of the bill.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			The days of what fans think ended a long time ago.
It’s just business now.
Money talks , that’s why imo the PL Big boys will get what they want.
		
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So if the fans are irrelevant and the 3 Leagues still have the play off system after 30+ years, the Clubs must be ok with it.


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## fundy (Oct 13, 2020)

GB72 said:



			This is what has grabbed my attention. All of the teams below the Premier league need bailing out to some extent and are looking to the Premier league teams to do it. All well and good but they need to be expected to hand something back in return. The Premier League pay them the money they need for a lifeline, stabalise their income going forward and remove the financial benefit of relegated teams getting a parachute payment. In exchange they want the team in 16th place to have a chance to retain their Premiership status. Plus they are bailing out the FA to the tune of £100 million as well. Again, coming from someone who is only a passing football supporter, it does not seem to be the worst deal in the world. The bits about voting rights etc in the Premier League itself is a bit more suspect but, again, I suspect that it is the top 6 clubs who will be footing much of the bill.
		
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the only people footing the bill ultimately will be the fans, not the clubs or their owners who are just ensuring their gravy trains get bigger, theyre trying to buy complete control of the future of English football and guarantee future income and profit on a far far larger scale then the bailout they are potentially providing (its not even guaranteed, its actually an advance against future revenues!)


theres far more downside than just the 16th placed team going into the champ play offs for the sides further down. every future vote about promotion/relegation/distribution of tv money etc will be decided by the big 6, whose interests do you think they are going to consider once they have this controlling power?


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## sunshine (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			The days of what fans think ended a long time ago.
It’s just business now.
Money talks , that’s why imo the PL Big boys will get what they want.
		
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Surely it's always been business? After all it's professional entertainment.

What fans think is massively important, in fact it is the most important consideration. You just have to recognise that "fans" applies to a group of people across the globe, not just a small group who grew up close to the ground and have a season ticket.

I don't know what to make of it all. On the one hand the quality of the football in the premier league has increased exponentially, and the proposals will enforce that... but where is the conscience and soul of the game?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I see your reason.
But I just don’t think a team that finishes well above another in a league should have to play in a cup tie to settle something that you had all year to sort out.
A bit of loss of form late on costs the better team promotion.
Just my opinion ,dosnt affect me but the supporters of those teams can’t be happy.
		
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I think they see it as you win some you lose some, but as havent done enough to finish 1st or 2nd, you have to take your chances.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I hear what you're saying, but the playoffs are great entertainment already, what does this add other than giving a PL side another bite of the cherry in terms of avoiding losing the benefit of the PL gravy train?

I see this as a good thing only for the teams that are worried they might finish 16th. It makes the PL less accessible than it currently is for championship sides.
		
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I dont know how old you are but I remember the very first play offs when I think top of div2 and bottom of div 1 went up/down, and the other 4 teams (2nd and 3rd bottom and 2nd and 3rd top) went into the play offs.

Anyway, my point is if a revamped play offs sees David Pleat in a beige Farah ensemble running across Maine road pitch, its a winner for me.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

sunshine said:



			Surely it's always been business? After all it's professional entertainment.

What fans think is massively important, in fact it is the most important consideration. You just have to recognise that "fans" applies to a group of people across the globe, not just a small group who grew up close to the ground and have a season ticket.

I don't know what to make of it all. On the one hand the quality of the football in the premier league has increased exponentially, and the proposals will enforce that... but where is the conscience and soul of the game?
		
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I see your point .
But don’t think many 2nd division clubs have fans all over the world.
They rely on bums on seats unlike the PL.
The conscience and soul went out with diving and cheating years ago.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So if the fans are irrelevant and the 3 Leagues still have the play off system after 30+ years, the Clubs must be ok with it.
		
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The clubs probably get a cut of the cash so yes they will be ok with it.
As I said “ just business”


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			The clubs probably get a cut of the cash so yes they will be ok with it.
As I said “ just business”
		
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Or they like it? It keeps the season going longer, wasn’t it last year that the team in 12th position in the Championship with a few games to go still had a chance of reaching the play off’s.
There won’t be much cash from 7 games split over 20+ Clubs.


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## sunshine (Oct 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Or they like it? It keeps the season going longer, wasn’t it last year that the team in 12th position in the Championship with a few games to go still had a chance of reaching the play off’s.
		
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Up until 14th July, every team in the league still had something to play for. Leeds and West Brom could have dropped into the play-offs, all the clubs down to 14th could have still got promoted, and 15th to 24th were still battling relegation. Stoke in 17th could have still finished 24th.

Play-offs are great for keeping the league alive. I'd even consider relegation play off, i.e 21st and 22nd play off to stay in the league, but 23rd and 24th go down automatically.


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 13, 2020)

Now that’s a relegation playoff I could get behind! 

Introduce it in the PL!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

sunshine said:



			Up until 14th July, every team in the league still had something to play for. Leeds and West Brom could have dropped into the play-offs, all the clubs down to 14th could have still got promoted, and 15th to 24th were still battling relegation. Stoke in 17th could have still finished 24th.

Play-offs are great for keeping the league alive. I'd even consider relegation play off, i.e 21st and 22nd play off to stay in the league, but 23rd and 24th go down automatically.
		
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So you need a draw in your last game to beat the drop .
Might as well play a youth team and save your first team for the playoff 
Because it dosnt matter how many points you have your in the playoff.

That’s what I don’t like you could be 10 pts clear but fourth from bottom playoff.
If the lower league fans like that good luck to them.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 13, 2020)

Imo it's usually fans of clubs that haven't experienced the playoffs that are more agaisnt it. 

Not all obviously. But a question to the supporters of the top clubs. 

If Uefa decided that it was champions only for the CL (again) and then a europa league. With funds massively weighted t that smallest group of qualifying teams. Would you be happy with that? Or would you rather you had four chances to get there?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 13, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Imo it's usually fans of clubs that haven't experienced the playoffs that are more agaisnt it.

Not all obviously. But a question to the supporters of the top clubs.

If Uefa decided that it was champions only for the CL (again) and then a europa league. With funds massively weighted t that smallest group of qualifying teams. Would you be happy with that? Or would you rather you had four chances to get there?
		
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I personally think it should be Champions only.
But it’s all about money now . 

Imagine two teams in CL winners and playoff for second spot.
City were so far ahead of the rest last year it would not be fair ,imo of course , if Man Utd got in ahead of them on a playoff game.

All hypothetical of course ,just seems money maker to me and position in the league over a whole season means nothing!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 13, 2020)

I still think UEFA sold their soul when all of the European comps (European Cup, Cup Winners and Uefa) stopped being a random draw. I do think there is something obscene with how much the CL will bring to the clubs


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

The world's most expensive CB making a reckless challenge on the left wing 🤭🤭


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

Oooops 😂😂😂😂

That 1st touch🤦


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## Papas1982 (Oct 14, 2020)

😂😂😂😂

£80m after a couple of headers at corners during the world cup. 

He's up there with Salif Diao!


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## Slime (Oct 14, 2020)

Oooh, a red card for getting the ball .......................... interesting.
My, my, how the game has changed.

I'm glad I'm just about to go and play some bad snooker.


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## fundy (Oct 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The world's most expensive CB making a reckless challenge on the left wing 🤭🤭
		
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how hes anywhere near the England squad at the moment...

tbh he prob needs a mth away from football and the spotlight since his holidays, a red card in the prem at the weekend and he can


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## AmandaJR (Oct 14, 2020)

What a donkey. Dirty one at that. Either could have been straight reds.


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## fundy (Oct 14, 2020)

lol and now Pickfords at it too
edit: might be harsh that


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## AmandaJR (Oct 14, 2020)

Slime said:



			Oooh, a red card for getting the ball .......................... interesting.
My, my, how the game has changed.
		
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What?! Studs up follow through deliberately on the player's ankle!


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## Slime (Oct 14, 2020)

Oooh, a penalty for not being fouled ............................ interesting.
My, my, how the game has changed.

I'm glad I'm just about to go and play some bad snooker.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 14, 2020)

Red card and a penalty. Two of Englands finest donkeys doing the side proud. To be honest the whole side look short of ideas


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

Don’t know what’s funnier, Pickford lame attempt to win the ball or that pen 😃😂😂


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## Slime (Oct 14, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			What?! Studs up follow through *deliberately* on the player's ankle!
		
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Are you sure?


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Oooops 😂😂😂😂

That 1st touch🤦
		
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Yes poor touch but he got plenty of the ball and it shouldn’t even been a booking   

That was never a penalty either


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Red card and a penalty. Two of Englands finest donkeys doing the side proud. To be honest the whole side look short of ideas
		
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Southgate has morphed into Hodgson


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2020)

What a shocking line up , and £80mil for Maguire 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes poor touch but he got plenty of the ball and it shouldn’t even been a booking  

That was never a penalty either
		
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His 1st foul was borderline GBH, deserved a red alone.


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## fundy (Oct 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Southgate has morphed into Hodgson
		
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harsh on Hodgson


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## AmandaJR (Oct 14, 2020)

Slime said:



			Are you sure?
		
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Well his victim has had to go off...


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			😂😂😂😂

£80m after a couple of headers at corners during the world cup.

He's up there with Salif Diao!
		
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Diao done it at stoke on a cold Wednesday night, Maguire couldn’t 😉


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## fundy (Oct 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a shocking line up , and £80mil for Maguire 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
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5 defenders, 2 holding midfielders and then Mount over Grealish, seems his default selection. Reputation over form as well

Been fun but time to bring in an actual manager


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			harsh on Hodgson 

Click to expand...

You sure?


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## fundy (Oct 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You sure?
		
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damn had you as second fav lol


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			His 1st foul was borderline GBH, deserved a red alone.
		
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Wasn’t talking about first foul, do you really agree that second booking was correct?


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			5 defenders, 2 holding midfielders and then Mount over Grealish, seems his default selection. Reputation over form as well

Been fun but time to bring in an actual manager 

Click to expand...

I thought Grealish should have started, 
It’s terrible that over the years going right back to Tony Currie that players with skill are overlooked for workhorses.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I thought Grealish should have started, 
It’s terrible that over the years going right back to Tony Currie that players with skill are overlooked for workhorses.
		
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Typical English attuide to football though 

He runs around a lot he must be good.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Red card and a penalty. Two of Englands finest donkeys doing the side proud. To be honest the whole side look short of ideas
		
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What was the penalty given for in your opinion?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Wasn’t talking about first foul, do you really agree that second booking was correct?
		
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Why wouldn’t it be ?! Studs on his ankle on the follow through


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Wasn’t talking about first foul, do you really agree that second booking was correct?
		
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Under the current rules, absolutely.

His 1st touch was embarrassing, on a yellow card  you don't make that challenge. World class defenders don't make that challenge.

Twice he was out of position and made 2 awful challenges. He's vastly overrated.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why wouldn’t it be ?! Studs on his ankle on the follow through
		
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He clearly got all of the ball well before there was contact with his other foot, if you can’t tackle like that you might as well give up with football as a contact sport.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			He clearly got all of the ball well before there was contact with his other foot, if you can’t tackle like that you might as well give up with *football as a contact sport*.
		
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That sailed many years ago.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			What was the penalty given for in your opinion?
		
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Poor decision but Pickford didn't need to be there and had he not done so there wouldn't have been an issue


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			He clearly got all of the ball well before there was contact with his other foot, if you can’t tackle like that you might as well give up with football as a contact sport.
		
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Doesn’t matter - a player needs to be in control and understand where his foot will land and in this case studs on an ankle injuring the player - it’s a yellow card all day long


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Under the current rules, absolutely.

His 1st touch was embarrassing, on a yellow card  you don't make that challenge. World class defenders don't make that challenge.
		
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Well we will disagree with the sending off then👍
Don’t know why you keep harping on about    his first touch we all know it was poor, think we would all agree he’s not a world class defender but he does play for Man United so that explains that comment 😂


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Poor decision but Pickford didn't need to be there and had he not done so there wouldn't have been an issue
		
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I’ll ask again what was the penalty given for? Pickford position should have been irrelevant as he had nothing to do with the penalty


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## Fish (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I’ll ask again what was the penalty given for? Pickford position should have been irrelevant as he had nothing to do with the penalty
		
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Walker kicking out, that’s the view the ref had, soft but......


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## Captainron (Oct 14, 2020)

England could do with Kane getting injured again. He’s pretty average and there’s no way that he is getting dropped by Southgate. 

Saying that, the donkey will probably score off a corner or a penalty


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## SteveW86 (Oct 14, 2020)

What has Phillips been doing to warrant starting the last few games? Genuine question as I haven’t seen him play.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2020)

Captainron said:



			England could do with Kane getting injured again. He’s pretty average and there’s no way that he is getting dropped by Southgate.

Saying that, the donkey will probably score off a corner or a penalty
		
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He has some scoring record for a donkey😂.  Daft post really


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

Pickford 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## ger147 (Oct 14, 2020)

Scotland win again. Played decent in the first half, camped in their own penalty box for the whole 2nd half but managed to hang on for another 1-0 win.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			how hes anywhere near the England squad at the moment...

tbh he prob needs a mth away from football and the spotlight since his holidays, a red card in the prem at the weekend and he can
		
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Maybe a week in Greece???


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Pickford 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Rent free


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Well we will disagree with the sending off then👍
Don’t know why you keep harping on about    his first touch we all know it was poor, think we would all agree he’s not a world class defender but he does play for Man United so that explains that comment 😂
		
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Harping on?? I've mentioned it twice🤔


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			He has some scoring record for a donkey😂.  Daft post really
		
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Jimmy Greaves and Gary Lineker both have good scoring records for England. Doesn't mean that they should be guaranteed starters every week. It does seem as though players are picked on reputation rather than current form. I can't see any other reason that Walker and McGuire keep getting picked.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Rent free

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Boring that now. Did you miss his free kick in the last 30seconds?


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## Captainron (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			He has some scoring record for a donkey😂.  Daft post really
		
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He’s been well below average for about a year now. No doubt, he was deadly in the past but he’s just not there now.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

Captainron said:



			He’s been well below average for about a year now. No doubt, he was deadly in the past but he’s just not there now.
		
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He's only just come back from injury to be fair.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Boring that now. Did you miss his free kick in the last 30seconds?
		
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So no other England player tonight made a mistake or misplaced pass, but yet you highlight Pickford.

He was not responsible for the loss and neither Pope or Henderson would of made a difference.

Yep, you’re right, it is getting boring now.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Jimmy Greaves and Gary Lineker both have good scoring records for England. Doesn't mean that they should be guaranteed starters every week. It does seem as though players are picked on reputation rather than current form. I can't see any other reason that Walker and McGuire keep getting picked.
		
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I agree with you pick the players in form, but calling Kane a donkey is a bit daft


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So no other England player tonight made a mistake or misplaced pass, but yet you highlight Pickford.

He was not responsible for the loss and neither Pope or Henderson would of made a difference.

Yep, you’re right, it is getting boring now.
		
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You're touchy tonight aren't you? 

For the record I watched most of the 1st half and turned over on 89 mins and watched the remainder of the game. 

That freekick in the dying seconds was hilarious. 

Go back a bit I've mentioned Maguire's mistakes too 👍


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## Captainron (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I agree with you pick the players in form, but calling Kane a donkey is a bit daft
		
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He’s slow and makes no penetrating runs. 

There were a few chances to make a run into the box where all he had to do was sprint but he just rambled and he made it simple for the defense. Gave them no real target for a cross so they never really sent them in. So often England get forward quite quickly but then have to pass backward and allow the defenders to get back. No one making that run to get behind the line and cause an issue or into the box for the cross.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2020)

Just seen the sending off again still think he shouldn’t be sent off. ,


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You're touchy tonight aren't you?

For the record I watched most of the 1st half and turned over on 89 mins and watched the remainder of the game.

That freekick in the dying seconds was hilarious.

Go back a bit I've mentioned Maguire's mistakes too 👍
		
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No, not touchy at all, for one thing I wouldn’t have Pickford starting for Everton never mind England, but the fact is he hasn’t let Southgate down and Southgate must like him and it gets boring people highlighting any mistake he does like he’s the only one.

Totally Southgate’s errors tonight from his starting XI to his substitutions.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Just seen the sending off again still think he shouldn’t be sent off. ,
		
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Both yellow cards imo, he followed through on both tackles, Ref only gets one look and he saw him catch the players with studs up, he was stretching and not in control, don’t think he gave the Ref a choice tbh.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I agree with you pick the players in form, but calling Kane a donkey is a bit daft
		
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I would agree with that. We seem to have gone back to the old problem of square pegs in round holes. Playing 5 at the back to me says to the opposition that the manager isn't confident in our defence and encourages them to attack us. We're playing a system that none of the players are used to playing week in, week out. We need to look at the formations that most PL teams are playing each week and then pick our best 11 to fit that system. Either 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or whatever it may be, but it seems ridiculous that we're playing 5-4-1 when none of the defenders are used to playing that every week for their clubs.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No, not touchy at all, for one thing I wouldn’t have Pickford starting for Everton never mind England, but the fact is he hasn’t let Southgate down and Southgate must like him and it gets boring people highlighting any mistake he does like he’s the only one.

Totally Southgate’s errors tonight from his starting XI to his substitutions.
		
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Nobody is suggesting he's the only one. 

If he wasn't consistently making mistakes  for club and country, it wouldn't be as boring/fun as it is. 

Blaming the manager is boring........😉


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Nobody is suggesting he's the only one.

If he wasn't consistently making mistakes  for club and country, it wouldn't be as boring/fun as it is.

Blaming the manager is boring........😉
		
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Fair one.


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## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I agree with you pick the players in form, but calling Kane a donkey is a bit daft
		
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Also plainly wrong to say he isn't on form!


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## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I would agree with that. We seem to have gone back to the old problem of square pegs in round holes. Playing 5 at the back to me says to the opposition that the manager isn't confident in our defence and encourages them to attack us. We're playing a system that none of the players are used to playing week in, week out. We need to look at the formations that most PL teams are playing each week and then pick our best 11 to fit that system. Either 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or whatever it may be, but it seems ridiculous that we're playing 5-4-1 when none of the defenders are used to playing that every week for their clubs.
		
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The problem is players aren't versatile anymore either. In the 90s and 2000s you had players who could play a number of positions. Now they're all "defensive midfielder" or "number 10" or "inverted winger" and they can only do one job - ask them to be a bit flexible for the England team and they fail. It's fine at club level because managers bring in the players they need for their system. For England though - as you say - we're left with square pegs and rounds holes. What we need is some versatile shapeshifting pegs!


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## Slime (Oct 14, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Well his victim has had to go off...
		
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That doesn't make it deliberate, though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2020)

On sunday England came from a goal down to beat Belgium, who are currently ranked No1 in the world, and not one post was made on this forum either praising or criticising the England team.

Tonight we have people highlighting all the supposed problems with the players, the manager, the set up, square pegs in round holes etc etc.

Maybe it’s true what they say about us English only being happy when we are moaning.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 14, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			The problem is players aren't versatile anymore either. In the 90s and 2000s you had players who could play a number of positions. Now they're all "defensive midfielder" or "number 10" or "inverted winger" and they can only do one job - ask them to be a bit flexible for the England team and they fail. It's fine at club level because managers bring in the players they need for their system. For England though - as you say - we're left with square pegs and rounds holes. What we need is some versatile shapeshifting pegs!
		
Click to expand...

I'd disagree. We've been through the versatile/utility players before. Someone like Milner, who is no doubt a very good player, can fill in at left back or defensive midfield etc but isn't the best player for either of those positions. A useful squad player for a tournament when you need cover for different positions but why not just pick your two best players for each position? If we go in to a tournament knowing we're going to play 4-2-3-1 for example, our squad should be our 2 best right and left backs, 4 best centre backs, 4 best defensive midfielders, 6 best attacking midfielders and 2 best strikers. Add in three keepers and that's our 23 man squad. The only possible concession is if you have someone that almost makes it as an automatic choice but can fill in elsewhere (like Milner) then they might get picked instead of the 4th best choice.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

Slime said:



			That doesn't make it deliberate, though.
		
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Deliberate means nothing no more, excessive force is the term they use.  I'm sure our resident ref will be able to confirm the exact wording and rule.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			On sunday England came from a goal down to beat Belgium, who are currently ranked No1 in the world, and not one post was made on this forum either praising or criticising the England team.

Tonight we have people highlighting all the supposed problems with the players, the manager, the set up, square pegs in round holes etc etc.

Maybe it’s true what they say about us English only being happy when we are moaning.

Click to expand...

You English  have a lot to answer for 🤭🤭


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## fundy (Oct 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			On sunday England came from a goal down to beat Belgium, who are currently ranked No1 in the world, and not one post was made on this forum either praising or criticising the England team.

Tonight we have people highlighting all the supposed problems with the players, the manager, the set up, square pegs in round holes etc etc.

Maybe it’s true what they say about us English only being happy when we are moaning.

Click to expand...


that or you didnt watch the belgium game, we were quite clearly second best for most of it and more than fortunate to win

all these so called exciting attacking young talents we play 5 at the back and 2 holding midfielders

look at what we could put on the pitch to what we are and theres every reason to be critical currently imho


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 15, 2020)

Two rash unnecessary challenges by McGuire but he quite clearly got the ball.
Very similar to Kompany getting Salha couple of seasons ago.
It’s accidental but modern footy it’s yellow or even red.

Where do they get these refs from,? That’s never a pen in a million years.
Booked players for next to nothing, but the one who scythed Kane down from behind nothing.

Grealish was mom in first game and never got a look in.
Thought Rashford did nothing and Grealish should have been on for him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			that or you didnt watch the belgium game, we were quite clearly second best for most of it and more than fortunate to win

all these so called exciting attacking young talents we play 5 at the back and 2 holding midfielders

look at what we could put on the pitch to what we are and theres every reason to be critical currently imho
		
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I did watch the England game, just like I watched last night and yes there were, good, average and awful moments in both games.

The issues highlighted by people last night didn’t suddenly appear for the first time, so I wondered why WE only trot out the same rubbish after a defeat.

Is it beyond us to point the positives when we win?


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## fundy (Oct 15, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I did watch the England game, just like I watched last night and yes there were, good, average and awful moments in both games.

The issues highlighted by people last night didn’t suddenly appear for the first time, so I wondered why WE only trot out the same rubbish after a defeat.

Is it beyond us to point the positives when we win?
		
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Apologies will remember to moan here and not just elsewhere in future, win or lose


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## Stuart_C (Oct 15, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I did watch the England game, just like I watched last night and yes there were, good, average and awful moments in both games.

The issues highlighted by people last night didn’t suddenly appear for the first time, so I wondered why WE only trot out the same rubbish after a defeat.

Is it beyond us to point the positives when we win?
		
Click to expand...

You should lead by example. That said 2 flukey goals against Belgium isn't something to shout about is it 😂


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 15, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I did watch the England game, just like I watched last night and yes there were, good, average and awful moments in both games.

The issues highlighted by people last night didn’t suddenly appear for the first time, so I wondered why WE only trot out the same rubbish after a defeat.

Is it beyond us to point the positives when we win?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe Ingurland fans are the most fickle about?

Paint their faces, get the little car flags, deck out the house in St. Georges when at major tournaments and things are going well.

Hound their own players, hang effigies, boo them in club and international games when things dont go to plan.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			Apologies will remember to moan here and not just elsewhere in future, win or lose 

Click to expand...

What part of praise did you miss?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You should lead by example. That said 2 flukey goals against Belgium isn't something to shout about is it 😂
		
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For someone who has no interest in the national side you seem to be aware of every performance.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe Ingurland fans are the most fickle about?

Paint their faces, get the little car flags, deck out the house in St. Georges when at major tournaments and things are going well.

Hound their own players, hang effigies, boo them in club and international games when things dont go to plan.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, spot on, we are.


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## fundy (Oct 15, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			What part of praise did you miss?

Click to expand...


the lack of something to praise?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			the lack of something to praise?
		
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I rest my case.


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## fundy (Oct 15, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I rest my case.

Click to expand...


Me too 

seriously, outside the result what was there to praise from the Belgium game, or is result the only thing that matters? We scored from a soft penalty and a massive deflection, the formation looked awful, we lacked creativity but werent any better at the back. I cant remember a single stand out performance (unless you count KDB for them)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			Me too 

seriously, outside the result what was there to praise from the Belgium game, or is result the only thing that matters? We scored from a soft penalty and a massive deflection, the formation looked awful, we lacked creativity but werent any better at the back. I cant remember a single stand out performance (unless you count KDB for them)
		
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The team was far better balanced than last night, the way the performance improved after half time when he obviously made changes to the way they played and pressed.

Southgate giving players on form a chance, Philips, DCL etc.

Last night, Reece James, how they battled with 10 men.

That’s just a couple of quick points, like I put in the first post, WE, as in all of us are guilty of we talk about England, certainly more negatives than positives over the last games, but not all negatives, it’s a nothing tournament after we’ve had 4 PL games with players missing through various reasons, but I reckon Liverbirdie has it correct when he describes us as fickle, how many posters appear on the thread about England matches only when we lose?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 15, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			For someone who has no interest in the national side you seem to be aware of every performance.

Click to expand...

Thats wrong. I do have an interest in the national side, I like to see them fail😄


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 15, 2020)

It just shows the mindset of the manager when 

They are playing at home and they

Play with a pure defensive back five 

Then add in two defensive midfielders 

No creative midfielder

One forward player who is out of form ( Rashford )

One out of Position ( Mount ) 

A right back in the back three who has been poor for a while

A centre back who has been shocking for months 

A right footed player at left back 

Plus the third best GK

And on the bench there was 

The best right back in European football at the moment 

The best creative midfielder England have had since Gazza 

The most inform striker who scores for fun

It’s no surprise they were shocking , they were also poor against Belguim and got away with it but last night they didn’t 

Southgate clearly doesn’t know how to work with the creative players - he keeps going back to the way they played in the World Cup and is living off that.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 15, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It just shows the mindset of the manager when

They are playing at home and they

Play with a pure defensive back five

Then add in two defensive midfielders

No creative midfielder

One forward player who is out of form ( Rashford )

One out of Position ( Mount )

A right back in the back three who has been poor for a while

A centre back who has been shocking for months

A right footed player at left back

Plus the third best GK

And on the bench there was

The best right back in European football at the moment

The best creative midfielder England have had since Gazza

The most inform striker who scores for fun

It’s no surprise they were shocking , they were also poor against Belguim and got away with it but last night they didn’t

Southgate clearly doesn’t know how to work with the creative players - he keeps going back to the way they played in the World Cup and is living off that.
		
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I would say that’s a perfect summary.
Rashford did nothing in both games except give the ball away.
Grealish was MoM in first game but kept the bench warm.
And if Sancho is the best in the world on the right. He dosnt show it when I have watched him.
But to be fair the subs were to late .


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## SteveW86 (Oct 15, 2020)

I just find watching England a bit depressing, we have some exciting players going forwards but in general tend to set up so defensively. I was discussing it last night and came to the conclusion that its because we have players who just arent good enough at the back to trust them. If we could have a CB pairing from Ferdinand/Adams/Campbell/Terry we could play some exciting expansive football. 

I'f prefer to see a 4-2-3-1 formation. A front 4 of Sterling/Grealish/Sancho/Kane (DCL on current form) I think would atleast give some excitement and make me have an interest in watching the games.


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## Slime (Oct 15, 2020)

The thing I can't understand is the English who *desperately* want England to fail.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 15, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I just find watching England a bit depressing, we have some exciting players going forwards but in general tend to set up so defensively. I was discussing it last night and came to the conclusion that its because we have players who just arent good enough at the back to trust them. If we could have a CB pairing from Ferdinand/Adams/Campbell/Terry we could play some exciting expansive football.

I'f prefer to see a 4-2-3-1 formation. A front 4 of Sterling/Grealish/Sancho/Kane (DCL on current form) I think would atleast give some excitement and make me have an interest in watching the games.
		
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Agree with most but
McGuire though made two stupid tackles in their half.
That’s just individual errors because of poor form, he shouldn’t be playing that’s down to the manager.
Not sure three of the CBs you quote could play the way modern CBs play now.
They are the playmakers now.
Used to be the Centre Mid who controlled the game.
Look at Liverpool or City it’s VVD that has most touches in a game.
A lot of players now look like they are trying not to make a mistake rather than trying something skilful.
It’s boring watching possession football from side to side and backwards all the time.


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## Beezerk (Oct 15, 2020)

Slime said:



			The thing I can't understand is the English who *desperately* want England to fail.
		
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They aren't "English" though


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## 4LEX (Oct 15, 2020)

Really poor call from Southgate to include Maguire in these games, given his person issues and bad form. He needed a rest, maybe a week in Greece....

But you can't take too much from this international break, utterly pointless and of benefit to no one. Once you have Chilwell and TAA back the side will look so much more balanced and dynamic. Ditto the attack with Rashford, Kane and Sancho.


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## 4LEX (Oct 15, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe Ingurland fans are the most fickle about?

Paint their faces, get the little car flags, deck out the house in St. Georges when at major tournaments and things are going well.

Hound their own players, hang effigies, boo them in club and international games when things dont go to plan.
		
Click to expand...

You're confusing England fans with general fans who jump on the bandwagon every few years. Nothing wrong with that and during 2018 the buzz from everyone was brilliant. You've just got to seperate the two. 

England fans in general are the most loyal and supportive out of any national team. Biggest home average in the world, biggest travelling support for away games and largest support at major tournaments outside of the host.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2020)

Goalkeeper - Pickford, shouldn’t be, Pope offers nothing better and Henderson is warming the bench, so do we go back to last seasons form and play him or is that a risk. Sadly for all his errors for Everton, Pickford hasn’t let England down.

Defence: He’s played 5 at the back for a while now, certainly with M-Niles & James I don’t see it as defensive minded.
Coady is certainly the best we’ve got at the moment, but are we suggesting he is a backward step from Dier?

Maquire had a nightmare and no issue with Walker.

Trippier couldn’t play as the FA arranged a disciplinary hearing, unbelievable the ruling body would do that, added to Chilwell withdrawing, nothing Southgate could of done.

Why TAA wasn’t playing is beyond me.

Midfield, Henderson has missed a few games through injury and is defensive minded, he would of played alongside Rice.

Sancho? Still don’t see the hype around him.
Grealish? Again, not completely convinced.

Mount? Quality player and deserves his place,

Remainder: No issue with any.

Southgate: No doubt trusts certain players and this week has been badly affected by injuries and off field shenanigans, people complain he doesn’t play people on form yet last night he had 4 players with less than 3 Caps each in the team, add to that the season is only 4 games old, what other choices does he have? Who exactly these on form players he didn’t see.

1 thing is for sure, no England manager will ever please everyone.


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## Orikoru (Oct 15, 2020)

Southgate reckons he picks on form, yet he's still picking Pickford and Maguire off the back of a half decent 2018 World Cup. 

I'm not really a fan of the back five and two holding players. From that squad the only defenders who regularly play in a three/five for their clubs are Coady, Maitland-Niles and Saka - and the latter two shouldn't be starting for England anyway. You can't fit them to a new system off a couple of training sessions and a friendly. Surely it makes sense to play 4-2-3-1 / 4-3-3 as most of them do at their clubs. Obviously the only question mark then is Coady, since on form he has every right to start, it's just how comfortable he is in a back four, I don't know.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 15, 2020)

Slime said:



			The thing I can't understand is the English who *desperately* want England to fail.
		
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I don’t think i have seen people “desperately” wanting England to fail ? 

There is a huge difference between people being critical , or not being bothered or not supporting them and people wanting to them fail 

Surely you aren’t overreacting a touch 🙄


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t think i have seen people “desperately” wanting England to fail ?

*There is a huge difference between people being critical , or not being bothered or not supporting them and people wanting to them fail*

Surely you aren’t overreacting a touch 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Some on here have been in all these categories at some time or other and it is then difficult to take their posts as genuine.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2020)

Just ridiculous!


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 15, 2020)

4LEX said:



			You're confusing England fans with general fans who jump on the bandwagon every few years. Nothing wrong with that and during 2018 the buzz from everyone was brilliant. You've just got to seperate the two.

England fans in general are the most loyal and supportive out of any national team. Biggest home average in the world, biggest travelling support for away games and largest support at major tournaments outside of the host.
		
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I think you have me mixed up with someone who gives a rat's ass what you say.


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## Orikoru (Oct 15, 2020)

Wow, what an appalling list of potential candidates.


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## 4LEX (Oct 15, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think you have me mixed up with someone who gives a rat's ass what you say. 

Click to expand...

Well don't spout ignorant rubbish if you don't want to be corrected. I watch England every home game and a few aways and your comments are simply wrong.

Using your simple logic, I guess everyone was right to tarnish Liverpool fans with a bad rep for the minority in the 80's....(cue victim card being pulled)


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## Beezerk (Oct 15, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Just ridiculous!
View attachment 32943

Click to expand...

Jesus Christ 🙈


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 15, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Jesus Christ 🙈
		
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I know Wenger should br nearer the top!


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## Slime (Oct 15, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t think i have seen people “desperately” wanting England to fail ?

*There is a huge difference between people being critical , or not being bothered or not supporting them and people wanting to them fail*

Surely you aren’t overreacting a touch 🙄
		
Click to expand...




******** said:



			I do have an interest in the national side, *I like to see them fail*😄
		
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Not over reacting at all, I'm just curious why supposedly patriotic English people want England to fail.
Could you tell me?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 15, 2020)

Slime said:



			Not over reacting at all, I'm just curious why supposedly patriotic English people want England to fail.
Could you tell me?
		
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1. It’s a football team - it’s not “England” , stop even attempting to attach patriotism with a football 

2. Stu said I like to watch them fail as opposed to being desperately wanting them to fail , I suspect he doesn’t give a monkeys what happens but enjoys it when they fail 

3. People in many towns grew supporting their club , and have watched their country team treat their players like crap , heard supposed England fans insult their players when playing for England , seen their players constantly get injured because sub stand managers are unable to treat the players right. 

Some people need to understand that just because someone is English and a football fan doesn’t mean they automatically must support the national team . There are thousands of football fans around the country that will always be club first and foremost and that won’t change no matter how many teddies get thrown by people. 

There is nothing more sanctimonious or pathetic than someone even hinting they aren’t “patriotic” because they don’t support the England football team when they are English.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 15, 2020)

Slime said:



			Not over reacting at all, I'm just curious why supposedly patriotic English people want England to fail.
Could you tell me?
		
Click to expand...

Whoa there fella, I've never said I was a patriotic English man. 

Enjoying the England team fail isn't a crime.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			1. It’s a football team - it’s not “England” , stop even attempting to attach patriotism with a football

2. Stu said I like to watch them fail as opposed to being desperately wanting them to fail , I suspect he doesn’t give a monkeys what happens but enjoys it when they fail

3. People in many towns grew supporting their club , and have watched their country team treat their players like crap , heard supposed England fans insult their players when playing for England , seen their players constantly get injured because sub stand managers are unable to treat the players right.

Some people need to understand that just because someone is English and a football fan doesn’t mean they automatically must support the national team . There are thousands of football fans around the country that will always be club first and foremost and that won’t change no matter how many teddies get thrown by people.

There is nothing more sanctimonious or pathetic than someone even hinting they aren’t “patriotic” because they don’t support the England football team when they are English.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Whoa there fella, I've never said I was a patriotic English man.

Enjoying the England team fail isn't a crime.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree about the patriotism statement, but I don’t still don’t get wanting or enjoying a National side failing.

I don’t watch or have no interest in many sports, but if a sportsmen or athlete are representing England in any sport then I want them to do well and succeed.

A lot of the points you raised happened 10-20 yrs back, most of those issues have been adressed and I’m yet to see any player agree with what you say and refuse to represent England, surely if they choose to accept a call up you’d want them to do well as that can only help in their Club performances as well as benefitting the Club in other ways.

I genuinely never hear this Club v Country argument in any other Sport from any other nationality.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 15, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Well don't spout ignorant rubbish if you don't want to be corrected. I watch England every home game and a few aways and your comments are simply wrong.

Using your simple logic, I guess everyone was right to tarnish Liverpool fans with a bad rep for the minority in the 80's....(cue victim card being pulled) 

Click to expand...

Next time your in Liverpool look me up, lad. We're a very welcoming bunch.

Dont call me a victim one minute then try and banter with me another.


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## Slime (Oct 15, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			1. It’s a football team - it’s not “England” , stop even attempting to attach patriotism with a football

2. Stu said I like to watch them fail as opposed to being desperately wanting them to fail , I suspect he doesn’t give a monkeys what happens but enjoys it when they fail

3. People in many towns grew supporting their club , and *have watched their country team treat their players like crap* , heard supposed England fans insult their players when playing for England , seen their players constantly get injured because sub stand managers are unable to treat the players right.

*Some people need to understand that just because someone is English and a football fan doesn’t mean they automatically must support the national team . There are thousands of football fans around the country that will always be club first and foremost and that won’t change no matter how many teddies get thrown by people.*

There is nothing more sanctimonious or pathetic than someone even hinting they aren’t “patriotic” because they don’t support the England football team when they are English.
		
Click to expand...

1. I was referring to England as in the football team, as well you know.

2. He obviously does give a monkey's.

3. Really?

I've never suggested that they must automatically support the national team, I just asked for an explanation as to why and totally accept that thousands put their club first.
I'm not sure what teddies have to do with it, though, and don't know who's throwing them so why bring them into it?

I think it's best that we just agree to differ on this.
I just asked for an explanation and you've provided one, for which I thank you.


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## Slime (Oct 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Whoa there fella, I've never said I was a patriotic English man.

Enjoying the England team fail isn't a crime.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Stu, I just assumed you were.
Correct, it's not a crime, I'll call the dogs off.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			Sorry Stu, I just assumed you were.
Correct, it's not a crime, I'll call the dogs off. 

Click to expand...

Never assume Slimey dear boy😁


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## Slime (Oct 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Never assume Slimey dear boy😁
		
Click to expand...

Point taken and beautifully made.


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

fun start to the Merseyside derby

Pickford a little fortunate, not sure why VAR dont look at it as a dangerous challenge even though the offsides given

5.8 for Mane, 5.7 for Rodriguez for the Dorset judge so far lol


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## hairball_89 (Oct 17, 2020)

Pickford lucky. outside the box you see a free kick given and then another player get booked for "leaving one on him" time and time again.

Virgil offside shouldn't have anything to do with a terrible challenge, but the offside obviously negates the pen shout. 

Redmen need to tighten up. Move the ball better and work Pickford more. He's an absolute liability. Everton just need to carry on doing what they're doing. 

It's not going to be a dull second half!


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

horror tackle from Richarlison


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## SteveW86 (Oct 17, 2020)

Well that’s a tight offside call....looking forward to reading the comments later


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

Can someone please explain how 

1. Pickford stays on the pitch 

2. How is that offside ?!


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Well that’s a tight offside call....looking forward to reading the comments later
		
Click to expand...


just a joke decision, as all those ones are, guess when the balls kicked to choose when to draw the lines


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## hairball_89 (Oct 17, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Well that’s a tight offside call....looking forward to reading the comments later
		
Click to expand...

He's on.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can someone please explain how

1. Pickford stays on the pitch

2. How is that offside ?!
		
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LiVARpool apparently?! Absolute piss take those.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can someone please explain how

1. Pickford stays on the pitch

2. How is that offside ?!
		
Click to expand...

Theme the rules I’m afraid Phillip 🤷‍♂️😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## SteveW86 (Oct 17, 2020)

Interesting how the line looks to be drawn from Manes elbow


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## hairball_89 (Oct 17, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Theme the rules I’m afraid Phillip 🤷‍♂️😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

The line is drawn from mane's elbow. How can you be offside with a part of your body you can't score with?!


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## SteveW86 (Oct 17, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			He's on.
		
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Unfortunately in the VAR opinion he isn’t though. 

I only watched the second half, just seen the Pickford/VVD incident, that is  shocking challenge, so lucky not to be a snapped leg.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 17, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Unfortunately in the VAR opinion he isn’t though.

I only watched the second half, just seen the Pickford/VVD incident, that is  shocking challenge, so lucky not to be a snapped leg.
		
Click to expand...

But how is he off? The still they showed, the part of his body used to adjudge him as offside is a part of his body he can't score with. 

VAR had 2 things to do today and got them both wrong.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 17, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			But how is he off? The still they showed, the part of his body used to adjudge him as offside is a part of his body he can't score with.

VAR had 2 things to do today and got them both wrong.
		
Click to expand...

I agree 

The only reason I’m glad it was ruled out is because I had 2-2 in the prediction league


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## Bazzatron (Oct 17, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			But how is he off? The still they showed, the part of his body used to adjudge him as offside is a part of his body he can't score with.

VAR had 2 things to do today and got them both wrong.
		
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Devils advocate because it looked on to me, but hasn't it been drawn from the "t shirt line"?


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## Bazzatron (Oct 17, 2020)

Reminds me of the one we had disallowed for Pedro Neto's goal at Anfield.


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## User62651 (Oct 17, 2020)

Don't get the VAR fuss, just adapt to tighter rules which does make decision making tighter and more accurate for all, there is a VAR panel checking with a better look than anyone of us, if they were in any doubt they wouldn't have called it offside. A centimetre offside is still offside.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

Pickfords assault on Van Dijk  wasn't even looked at, apparently too busy checking the offside.

Those type of challenges, *by any player of any team*, have no place in football.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Don't get the VAR fuss, just adapt to tighter rules which does make decision making tighter and more accurate for all, there is a VAR panel checking with a better look than anyone of us, if they were in any doubt they wouldn't have called it offside. A centimetre offside is still offside.
		
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None of the pictures seen actually show him offside - they used the players elbow to put the line and you can’t be offside from a body part that you can’t score with. That and the challenge by Pickford is embarrassing


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## 3-off-the-tee (Oct 17, 2020)

Amazed that Pickford stayed on the pitch for that, as has already been mentioned it seemed the fuss was all about if VVD was offside.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Pickfords assault on Van Dijk  wasn't even looked at, apparently too busy checking the offside.

Those type of challenges, *by any player of any team*, have no place in football.
		
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Any views on Robertson’s lash out and kick down the back of a leg?


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## Jordanti9 (Oct 17, 2020)

As an Everton fan, happy with the draw. Decent game, Pickford should of walked. But I have also seen a lot of tackles from other players in the league and some Liverpool players since VAR that should of walked. Think this raises more questions over VAR. 

And yes Mane was onside (though I’ve also seen some other ludicrous offside calls, I remember one for wolves against Liverpool also) Really feel the clubs and players need to take a stand (the handball rule is another one) 

Imo if you can’t decide If a player is onside or offside within 20seconds. Then it’s not a clear and obvious error and the goal should stand simple as that.


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## Old Skier (Oct 17, 2020)

Not sure why people are so surprised about how bad VAR is these days. We have had poor refs fort he last few years and the same ones are the var officials.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Any views on Robertson’s lash out and kick down the back of a leg?
		
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It was petulant - and your view on Pickfords challenge


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## Cherry13 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was petulant - and your view on Pickfords challenge
		
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It was dangerous and he was out of control, but it wasn’t deliberate.


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

Whats the problem, Manes clearly offside


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			It was dangerous and he was out of control, but it wasn’t deliberate.
		
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It was two footed in the air - deliberate is irrelevant , clear red card


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2020)

I don't have BT so I haven't seen any of the game yet. Bring on motd. It sounds as though we got away with one but frankly we are due some luck in a derby so I'll happily take it.

On the Pickford- VVD issue, listening to the radio the moment VVD is offside the game is dead. Had he not been offside then by all accounts it was a clear red.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was two footed in the air - deliberate is irrelevant , clear red card
		
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What is worse....petulant and deliberate or out of control and dangerous?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			What is worse....petulant and deliberate or out of control and dangerous?
		
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Out of control and dangerous


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't have BT so I haven't seen any of the game yet. Bring on motd. It sounds as though we got away with one but frankly we are due some luck in a derby so I'll happily take it.

On the Pickford- VVD issue, listening to the radio the moment VVD is offside the game is dead. Had he not been offside then by all accounts it was a clear red.
		
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So does that mean once the whistle has gone Pickford can do whatever he wants ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So does that mean once the whistle has gone Pickford can do whatever he wants ?
		
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I haven't seen it so hard to comment. If it was violent conduct then he would have to go whatever. If it was a playing incident then clearly it is different. That isn't me saying it is correct, it is presumably in the rules. If not he would have gone from all that I've heard.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I haven't seen it so hard to comment. If it was violent conduct then he would have to go whatever. If it was a playing incident then clearly it is different. That isn't me saying it is correct, it is presumably in the rules. If not he would have gone from all that I've heard.
		
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They didn’t even look at it because they VAR Ref deemed it not dangerous



If that’s not dangerous I don’t know what it is - but then it’s the same person who somehow found Mane offside




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317440320292925441


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't have BT so I haven't seen any of the game yet. Bring on motd. It sounds as though we got away with one but frankly we are due some luck in a derby so I'll happily take it.

On the Pickford- VVD issue, listening to the radio the moment VVD is offside the game is dead. Had he not been offside then by all accounts it was a clear red.
		
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But they have been told to not put the flag up so the game is still going until the ref blows the whistle.
This is going to see players hurt from unnecessary tackles on players that are offside anyway.
You still can’t assault someone even if he’s offside


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They didn’t even look at it because they VAR Ref deemed it not dangerous
View attachment 32961


If that’s not dangerous I don’t know what it is - but then it’s the same person who somehow found Mane offside

View attachment 32962


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317440320292925441

Click to expand...

Posh poor that is shocking from Pickford.
Offside or not that is red.
Lino only puts his flag up after the tackle.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2020)

Ouch. That's a leg breaker 😳. Horribly clumsy.

No defence for that. @clubchamp98 , I agree but presumably that is how the system is set up.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ouch. That's a leg breaker 😳. Horribly clumsy.

No defence for that. @clubchamp98 , I agree but presumably that is how the system is set up.
		
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I don’t think so .
If you did that or anything else while the balls dead you can still be sent off.
You can be sent off after the final whistle.
So if that’s the rule it needs changing.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I don’t think so .
If you did that or anything else while the balls dead you can still be sent off.
You can be sent off after the final whistle.
So if that’s the rule it needs changing.
		
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I can't think of any other reason he didn't walk though. Let's face it, it only gets worse the more you see it, especially in slow mo. How could the VAR ref leave him on the pitch if the rules didn't prohibit a red? If he has got that wrong then he has got it wrong big time.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 17, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317487391503011840
😂😂😂😂😂 state of him


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't think of any other reason he didn't walk though. Let's face it, it only gets worse the more you see it, especially in slow mo. How could the VAR ref leave him on the pitch if the rules didn't prohibit a red? If he has got that wrong then he has got it wrong big time.
		
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So if your offside and you know you are you could take the opponents keeper out with a two footed tackle and get away with it because your offside.
That dosnt sound right to me .
If it is it’s really poor.
So you can do what you like when your offside.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 17, 2020)

This whole "the whistle had gone" thing is irrelevant - the whistle had gone before richarlison's horror show on Thiago! Richarlison was sent off. 

Peter Walton in the BT studio said he couldn't send him off for "serious foul play" but could for something else, although I can't remember what that was.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So if your offside and you know you are you could take the opponents keeper out with a two footed tackle and get away with it because your offside.
That dosnt sound right to me .
If it is it’s really poor.
So you can do what you like when your offside.
		
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I'm not defending it, I'm not even saying that is the right answer. I can't think of any other reason why he wasn't sent off though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Looks like it’s true what they say about VAR, the teams at the top of the League get all the decisions. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317497592473845761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317442113286656000


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## Fish (Oct 17, 2020)

If we have defensive coaches, then sack them, offload Kepa to the highest bidder, even if it means subsidizing his wages, we constantly crumble under any attack, even from the likes of Southampton 😳, ffs, when will the penny drop 🤔 when you stop the goals going in one end, you can go and score at the other!!

We have the firepower to score plenty of goals, but this constant leaking of goals is holding us back.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Any views on Robertson’s lash out and kick down the back of a leg?
		
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He was blatantly pushed by Mina causing the collision, nowhere near what Pickford landed.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Looks like it’s true what they say about VAR, the teams at the top of the League get all the decisions. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317497592473845761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317442113286656000

Click to expand...

2 yellows = 1 ...........................red 😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			2 yellows = 1 ...........................red 😁
		
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Mate, I saw Suarez cheat to get Rodwell sent off, I saw Gerrard flying in 2 footed, I saw nasty tackles by Everton players over the years, it’s the Derby, incidents happen at times that go for and against you. 

And we see incidents through our own coloured specs.😬


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, I saw Suarez cheat to get Rodwell sent off, I saw Gerrard flying in 2 footed, I saw nasty tackles by Everton players over the years, it’s the Derby, incidents happen at times that go for and against you.

And we see incidents through our own coloured specs.😬
		
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And as Carragher said the only thing you don’t see is the win 🙄

You are normally first to expect people to be critical of their own players yet you appear very silent about both the Pickford incident , the Richarlinson tackle and the shocking offside call.


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## paddyc (Oct 17, 2020)

Welcome fellow G😁oners


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## Reemul (Oct 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He was blatantly pushed by Mina causing the collision, nowhere near what Pickford landed.
		
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Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I am so enjoying see all this on the other foot. The Liverpool reaction to a draw is amazing, the whining and whingeing is just superb, this is gonna keep me going for weeks. Whine whine whine whine whine, we was robbed, we was cheated, it's not fairrrrrrrrr.

Woooohoooo, stick it in your pipe and smoke it, oh yeah I'm off to watch the 7-2 Villa drubbing again just to round of my Saturday.

Up the Toffees


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And as Carragher said the only thing you don’t see is the win 🙄

You are normally first to expect people to be critical of their own players yet you appear very silent about both the Pickford incident , the Richarlinson tackle and the shocking offside call.
		
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If you care to notice Phil, I’ve made no comment on any Everton game this season, I’ve only posted today because of the “poor us” campaign from some LPool fans.

You’ve benefitted plenty of times from bad decisions going for you and even replying to my post you don’t mention Mane’s behaviour!


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## Reemul (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And as Carragher said the only thing you don’t see is the win 🙄

You are normally first to expect people to be critical of their own players yet you appear very silent about both the Pickford incident , the Richarlinson tackle and the shocking offside call.
		
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You must be blind, most fans on here think Pickford was lucky not to be sent off and we would have had no issue if he was, Richarlison was correctly sent off and we were very lucky on the offside, that make you feel better does it, lol.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			If you care to notice Phil, I’ve made no comment on any Everton game this season, I’ve only posted today because of the “poor us” campaign from some LPool fans.

You’ve benefitted plenty of times from bad decisions going for you and even replying to my post you don’t mention Mane’s behaviour!
		
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There was no “poor us” campaign - 

What did you want me to say about Mane - the first incident was nothing , a foul at most and the second should have been a yellow for simulation but then it’s just whataboutary. Could add Gomez on Fabinho lucky was just a yellow ( even more so after the reaction when he got his leg broken ) , you had James acting like he was shot every time he was given a mere touch

But of course you are the master of impartiality 🙄


Reemul said:



			You must be blind, most fans on here think Pickford was lucky not to be sent off and we would have had no issue if he was, Richarlison was correctly sent off and we were very lucky on the offside, that make you feel better does it, lol.
		
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Feel better about what ? Potentially losing two key players due to disgraceful tackles ?  Or being disappointed that it was clearly two points dropped


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## paddyc (Oct 17, 2020)

I se Stirling has a made miraculous  recovery  after being injured for Engands games.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There was no “poor us” campaign -

What did you want me to say about Mane - the first incident was nothing , a foul at most and the second should have been a yellow for simulation but then it’s just whataboutary. Could add Gomez on Fabinho lucky was just a yellow ( even more so after the reaction when he got his leg broken ) , you had James acting like he was shot every time he was given a mere touch

But of course you are the master of impartiality 🙄


Feel better about what ? Potentially losing two key players due to disgraceful tackles ?  Or being disappointed that it was clearly two points dropped
		
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IT IS THE DERBY, EMOTIONS RUN HIGH.

Richarliason, no quarrel.

Pickford, wish we’d sell him, came out and spread himself, made contact with VVD, not a red for me, lets not forget all the excuses made for Son when he did actually break a players leg and I was firmly told it was a yellow as these things happen.

VAR gave Mane offside, VAR is shite and we all win and lose some decisions, this won’t be the last one!

Mane should of been booked for simulation and kicking out, shouldn’t of been on the pitch at the end. 

Lets highlight every issue in every game and end up with 8 v 8 every game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			IT IS THE DERBY, EMOTIONS RUN HIGH.

Richarliason, no quarrel.

Pickford, wish we’d sell him, came out and spread himself, made contact with VVD, not a red for me, lets not forget all the excuses made for Son when he did actually break a players leg and I was firmly told it was a yellow as these things happen.

VAR gave Mane offside, VAR is shite and we all win and lose some decisions, this won’t be the last one!

Mane should of been booked for simulation and kicking out, shouldn’t of been on the pitch at the end.

Lets highlight every issue in every game and end up with 8 v 8 every game.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317440320292925441
Spread himself ?! You really think jumping two feet towards the player is spreading yourself ?! 


Why is his arms not up if he is spreading himself.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Whataboutery Phil, to use your word.


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

Some promising signs again but can someone explain to me what you expect to achieve by playing Aubam wide left and Willian as a false 10? I just dont get it. Its bad enough playing him wide left when Laca is down the middle. There has to be some logic but for the love of Arteta I just cant see what it is

Hows that not a pen against Walker too?????


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Looks like it’s true what they say about VAR, the teams at the top of the League get all the decisions. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317497592473845761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317442113286656000

Click to expand...


the Mane one is the one I gave him 5.8 for ealier 

you not find the video of Rodriguez going from dying to fine in a split second?


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## paddyc (Oct 17, 2020)

How was that not a pen with Walkers foot is in the  guys face!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			the Mane one is the one I gave him 5.8 for ealier 

you not find the video of Rodriguez going from dying to fine in a split second?
		
Click to expand...

I did say we could play the “find the clips” game all night, those 2 were a simple, fun, response to all the one sided cry arseing on here.


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## GreiginFife (Oct 17, 2020)

Only the one game on down there today was there? 😂


----------



## Kellfire (Oct 17, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317516723264851971
This isn’t a comfortable watch.


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

paddyc said:



			How was that not a pen with Walkers foot is in the  guys face!
		
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not even worth a look for VAR lol


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## Cherry13 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was two footed in the air - deliberate is irrelevant , clear red card
		
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Where have I stated that I think it was or wasn’t a red card?


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## paddyc (Oct 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			not even worth a look for VAR lol
		
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Incredible if it was Liverpool defo pen😁😁


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

ok for Cancelo to rake his studs down the back of Tierneys achilles too it seems


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## Fish (Oct 17, 2020)

I note the ‘the sulky one’ is making up for lost time/posts 😜


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 17, 2020)

Rumours on Twitter that Van Dijk has done his ACL and will be out for the season.


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

does Luiz ever hit the target in training with those free kicks, cos he doesnt in games, seriously let Pepe take them


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## USER1999 (Oct 17, 2020)

City back to rotational fouling.


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## USER1999 (Oct 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			does Luiz ever hit the target in training with those free kicks, cos he doesnt in games, seriously let Pepe take them
		
Click to expand...

72m dead ball kicker, let him have a pop.


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			72m dead ball kicker, let him have a pop.
		
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its like all our players are being told to not use their main skill and practise the stuff theyre weaker at lol, long list for Luiz obviously


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## chrisd (Oct 17, 2020)

I'm playing with 3 Arsenal fans tomorrow,  I hope I dont get the urge to take the proverbial 😁😁


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## USER1999 (Oct 17, 2020)

chrisd said:



			I'm playing with 3 Arsenal fans tomorrow,  I hope I dont get the urge to take the proverbial 😁😁
		
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Would Palace have done any better?


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

chrisd said:



			I'm playing with 3 Arsenal fans tomorrow,  I hope I dont get the urge to take the proverbial 😁😁
		
Click to expand...


I know we werent good but a Palace fan taking the p*** when we lose 1-0 at City, not sure we were that bad 

PS Watch out for those seagulls


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## chrisd (Oct 17, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Would Palace have done any better?
		
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Of course !


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## chrisd (Oct 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			I know we werent good but a Palace fan taking the p*** when we lose 1-0 at City, not sure we were that bad 

PS Watch out for those seagulls 

Click to expand...

Dont we normally beat City ?

By the time we play I shall be back in the comfort of home 🤣🤣


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Dont we normally beat City ?

By the time we play I shall be back in the comfort of home 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...


we'll keep you honest on here dont worry


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## Reemul (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpool asking for clarification, they are such bad sports it's embarrassing, time to grow a pair.


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## JamesR (Oct 17, 2020)

I’m no Liverpool fan, but those were 2 awful decisions 🤣🤣


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## Imurg (Oct 17, 2020)

JamesR said:



			I’m no Liverpool fan, but those were 2 awful decisions 🤣🤣
		
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They were.
And it just fans the froth of who's turn is it to moan this week.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Liverpool asking for clarification, they are such bad sports it's embarrassing, time to grow a pair.
		
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They aren’t the first team to ask for clarification and why shouldn’t they ask ? At least then they would know why the desicions were made especially when they were two very key ones .


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## PieMan (Oct 17, 2020)

Brucie for the United job tomorrow...... 😉 😂 😂


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## Tashyboy (Oct 17, 2020)

Just seen the VVD foul, it is a shocker.

 couple of points.

Can there be a retrospective view of it?

Its been said before that the way offside is now flagged as in letting the play continue, someone could get hurt. I know the VVD case it was a split decision. But someone is gonna get hurt in a needless challenge.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 17, 2020)

Kellfire said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317516723264851971
This isn’t a comfortable watch.
		
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Ok Karen 🙄


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## Fish (Oct 17, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Just seen the VVD foul, it is a shocker.

couple of points.

*Can there be a retrospective view of it?*

Its been said before that the way offside is now flagged as in letting the play continue, someone could get hurt. I know the VVD case it was a split decision. But someone is gonna get hurt in a needless challenge.
		
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Possibly. 

I didn’t watch the match, but have seen many videos of that assault!

It would seem, as the concentration was on an offside decision, this assault was overlooked, as such, as it yielded no yellow card or confirmation that the ref saw it, I would expect that it could be retrospectively looked at. 

If obviously can’t change the result, but could end up with a suspension  Pickford.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I am so enjoying see all this on the other foot. The Liverpool reaction to a draw is amazing, the whining and whingeing is just superb, this is gonna keep me going for weeks. Whine whine whine whine whine, we was robbed, we was cheated, it's not fairrrrrrrrr.

Woooohoooo, stick it in your pipe and smoke it, oh yeah I'm off to watch the 7-2 Villa drubbing again just to round of my Saturday.

Up the Toffees
		
Click to expand...

No whining or whinging from me, just responding to a question.

You enjoy celebrating a draw and leave winning the trophies to us.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They aren’t the first team to ask for clarification and why shouldn’t they ask ? At least then they would know why the desicions were made especially when they were two very key ones .
		
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Maybe a press conference for the ref to explain why he hasn’t done his job properly.
Who are they answerable to ?, who pays their wages etc.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe a press conference for the ref to explain why he hasn’t done his job properly.
Who are they answerable to ?, who pays their wages etc.
		
Click to expand...

Did you call for this when you benefitted from VAR decisions? ie, Wolves or West Ham are just 2 examples that spring to mind


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Did you call for this when you benefitted from VAR decisions? ie, Wolves or West Ham are just 2 examples that spring to mind

Click to expand...

I have called for this for a long time ! So the answer to your question would be YES
They are professional now allegedly.
They should not just hide and not explain .


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They aren’t the first team to ask for clarification and why shouldn’t they ask ? At least then they would know why the desicions were made especially when they were two very key ones .
		
Click to expand...

Remember when Dignity Dave sent a dossier off to the refs boss with clips of all the pens they never got?

😂😂


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 17, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Rumours on Twitter that Van Dijk has done his ACL and will be out for the season.
		
Click to expand...

Being more widely reported now........

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...uffering-anterior-cruciate-ligament-knee.html


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Being more widely reported now........

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...uffering-anterior-cruciate-ligament-knee.html

Click to expand...

Well this is what everybody wanted to see, how good Liverpool are without VVD.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No whining or whinging from me, just responding to a question.

You *enjoy celebrating a draw* and leave winning the trophies to us.
		
Click to expand...

We learnt it off you lot.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Being more widely reported now........

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...uffering-anterior-cruciate-ligament-knee.html

Click to expand...

A lot of it is based from Richard Keys saying a source has said - and the source is some fake Journo 

But wouldn’t surprise if he is out for a while - apparently it’s karma for tripping James earlier, and gives them something to celebrate


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A lot of it is based from Richard Keys saying a source has said - and the source is some fake Journo

But wouldn’t surprise if he is out for a while - apparently it’s karma for tripping James earlier, and gives them something to celebrate
		
Click to expand...

Wow, that’s low, no football fan of any colour wants to see a player get seriously injured!

And you call us bitters


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Wow, that’s low, no football fan of any colour wants to see a player get seriously injured!

And you call us bitters

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317518387799642118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317489873637543938
Maybe you should read some of your fellow fans


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317518387799642118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317489873637543938
Maybe you should read some of your fellow fans
		
Click to expand...

That's pathetic. Each club has utter tubes, this is obviously a total plank and should be treated as such. I could waste part of my life and find a red posting similar drivel but come on........No one on here would ever celebrate an injury of a player, nor given any indication of such and that is what should matter on here

Don't trawl social media for planks.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			We learnt it off you lot.
View attachment 32967

Click to expand...

Ah you see we weren't celebrating a draw that night,  klopp was thanking the kop for the support.

I know its been a long time since you beat us so you've probably forgotten what its like  to celebrate 3pts off us😉


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317518387799642118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317489873637543938
Maybe you should read some of your fellow fans
		
Click to expand...

Is that “them” or 1 or 2 dickheads?

As for “tripping” James, lets see how the BBC and Sky described it at the time?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ah you see we weren't celebrating a draw that night,  klopp was thanking the kop for the support.

I know its been a long time since you beat us so you've probably forgotten what its like  to celebrate 3pts off us😉
		
Click to expand...

Plenty of memories mate, not celebrating at all, called the draw in the fantasy league thread

Just find it funny how some of your lesser fans are cry arseing.


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## Swingalot (Oct 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			PS Watch out for those seagulls 

Click to expand...

Even the nickname makes me feel sick. 👊


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Is that “them” or 1 or 2 dickheads?

As for “tripping” James, lets see how the BBC and Sky described it at the time?
View attachment 32970


View attachment 32968

Click to expand...

There are plenty more out there , many being highlighted - so the only “low” being seen is the pathetic people celebrating the injury 🙄.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's pathetic. Each club has utter tubes, this is obviously a total plank and should be treated as such. I could waste part of my life and find a red posting similar drivel but come on........No one on here would ever celebrate an injury of a player, nor given any indication of such and that is what should matter on here

Don't trawl social media for planks.
		
Click to expand...

No need to trawl - being clearly highlighted, and now seems Richarlinson getting involved as well 🙄


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There are plenty more out there , many being highlighted - so the only “low” being seen is the pathetic people celebrating the injury 🙄.
		
Click to expand...

Explain this and then come down off your high horse:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317448630400331777


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

Its very easy to find messages/videos of all rival fans taking extreme delight in injuries etc, i prefer to ignore them. They dont represent the whole of the fan base.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Explain this and then come down off your high horse:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317448630400331777

Click to expand...

Are we just gonna keep going round and round and round points scoring?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Explain this and then come down off your high horse:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317448630400331777

Click to expand...

It’s just more whataboutary isn’t it - deflecting , justifying actions because others idiots have done something in the past 

All over the place 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317544491830607872


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## BrianM (Oct 17, 2020)

Some of the posts on here are ridiculous, there’s always a minority that will take some delight in seeing an opposition player getting injured, it is just that a minority (mindless idiots) in my opinion.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Are we just gonna keep going round and round and round points scoring?
		
Click to expand...

If he wants.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s just more whataboutary isn’t it - deflecting , justifying actions because others idiots have done something in the past

All over the place


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317544491830607872

Click to expand...

You brought the dickheads off twitter in to the thread.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s just more whataboutary isn’t it - deflecting , justifying actions because others idiots have done something in the past

All over the place


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317544491830607872

Click to expand...

That fella on the 5live phone in sounds like Pauldj42🤭🤭


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			If he wants.

Click to expand...

At least he keeps it relevant, not digging up posts from 3yrs ago 😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			At least he keeps it relevant, not digging up posts from 3yrs ago 😁
		
Click to expand...

Time is irrelevant, today, yesterday, 3 years, 20 years, both Clubs have and will always have dickheads but some don’t recognise their own.

And he replied to a post with “them” ie the whole fan base, not a minority.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Time is irrelevant, today, yesterday, 3 years, 20 years, both Clubs have and will always have dickheads but some don’t recognise their own.

And he replied to a post with “them” ie the whole fan base, not a minority.
		
Click to expand...

If all of our *dickheads* supported their local teams then we wouldnt have any 😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If all of our *dickheads* supported their local teams then we wouldnt have any 😁
		
Click to expand...

Going to contact MikeH and see if we can a double “like” button for this post.😂😂


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			But how is he off? The still they showed, the part of his body used to adjudge him as offside is a part of his body he can't score with.

VAR had 2 things to do today and got them both wrong.
		
Click to expand...

3 major decisions, all of them ruled incorrectly.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't have BT so I haven't seen any of the game yet. Bring on motd. It sounds as though we got away with one but frankly we are due some luck in a derby so I'll happily take it.

On the Pickford- VVD issue, listening to the radio the moment VVD is offside the game is dead. Had he not been offside then by all accounts it was a clear red.
		
Click to expand...

Incorrect.

If a foul is given for an incident, in an extreme example does that allow someone to punch someone in the face a few seconds later?


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Its very easy to find messages/videos of all rival fans taking extreme delight in injuries etc, i prefer to ignore them. They dont represent the whole of the fan base.
		
Click to expand...


youre quite happy to post up the AFTV stuff tho


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2020)

Reemul said:



			You must be blind, most fans on here think Pickford was lucky not to be sent off and we would have had no issue if he was, Richarlison was correctly sent off and we were very lucky on the offside, that make you feel better does it, lol.
		
Click to expand...

You've finished a derby above us in the league, so your obviously elated, get back in your box for another 10 years now. Take a good book, will help pass the time.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2020)

Fish said:



			Possibly.

I didn’t watch the match, but have seen many videos of that assault!

It would seem, as the concentration was on an offside decision, this assault was overlooked, as such, as it yielded no yellow card or confirmation that the ref saw it, I would expect that it could be retrospectively looked at.

If obviously can’t change the result, but could end up with a suspension  Pickford.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but Everton will gain again from a bad decision, 3 games without Pickford could see them cement top of the league in November.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317518387799642118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317489873637543938
Maybe you should read some of your fellow fans
		
Click to expand...

As said by the blues Phil, every fan base has these dickheads including our own.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			youre quite happy to post up the AFTV stuff tho 

Click to expand...

They’re a bonafide Media outlet 😉


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## Slime (Oct 18, 2020)

Oh, and United thrashed Newcastle 1-4 this evening.
Captain Maguire getting on the score sheet, too!

Just thought I'd mention it, you know, try and change the subject a bit.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Oct 18, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On the Pickford- VVD issue, listening to the radio the moment VVD is offside the game is dead. Had he not been offside then by all accounts it was a clear red.
		
Click to expand...

I don't understand how they can say that. If that's the case how can people be sent off after the final whistle 🤔


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## Junior (Oct 18, 2020)

Forget about the Scouse Derby......Lets talk about how great Juan Mata is 

More valuable to Man U than Pogba.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Oct 18, 2020)

Junior said:



			Forget about the Scouse Derby......Lets talk about how great Juan Mata is 

More valuable to Man U than Pogba.
		
Click to expand...

I've always rated Mata...... but what do I know 😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

drive4show said:



			I don't understand how they can say that. If that's the case how can people be sent off after the final whistle 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Just to clarify:
“A player can’t be done for serious foul play, with violent conduct still punishable after the whistle.”

However, regardless of anyones opinion, that is only if the Ref or the VAR Official determine an offence has happened.

Yesterday, neither the Ref or VAR Official (rightly or wrongly) saw or discussed the offence of violent conduct.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2020)

drive4show said:



			I don't understand how they can say that. If that's the case how can people be sent off after the final whistle 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. Initially I put it down to a separation of violent conduct or abuse against a genuine tackle that was reckless and dangerous but no, they were plain wrong.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2020)

Junior said:



			Forget about the Scouse Derby......Lets talk about how great Juan Mata is 

More valuable to Man U than Pogba.
		
Click to expand...

There are a lot of players at utd more valuable to the team than Pogba. Mata is certainly one of them but he often seems to get sidelined. Not sexy enough.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Just to clarify:
“A player can be done for serious foul play, with violent conduct still punishable after the whistle.”

However, regardless of anyones opinion, that is only if the Ref or the VAR Official determine an offence has happened.

Yesterday, neither the Ref or VAR Official (rightly or wrongly) saw or discussed such an offence.
		
Click to expand...

So the ref had the option to review the incident if he had wanted to?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

drive4show said:



			So the ref had the option to review the incident if he had wanted to?
		
Click to expand...

Apparently so, have seen reports this morning that VAR did review it and didn’t deem it as Violent Conduct.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 18, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There are a lot of players at utd more valuable to the team than Pogba. Mata is certainly one of them but he often seems to get sidelined. Not sexy enough.
		
Click to expand...

as useless as Pogba is, utd have extended His contract 😖 nowt to do with his value. I would be frustrated with him in my team.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Apparently so, have seen reports this morning that VAR did review it and didn’t deem it as Violent Conduct.
		
Click to expand...

That’s covering their own backs so they don’t have to admit they missed it.
That makes it worse imo , they are closing ranks.
Even most Everton fans know that was a shocker.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s covering their own backs so they don’t have to admit they missed it.
That makes it worse imo , they are closing ranks.
Even most Everton fans know that was a shocker.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

Slime said:



			Oh, and United thrashed Newcastle 1-4 this evening.
Captain Maguire getting on the score sheet, too!

Just thought I'd mention it, you know, try and change the subject a bit.
		
Click to expand...

Fantastic goal by Rashford.
Just one thing, he had a few chances very similar in the England game where he was past his defender but chose to double back and lost the ball.
He is quick enough but looks a shadow of his normal self in a England shirt.
Is it a confidence thing ? As he is still a young man really.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

You think that’s funny .
What’s your take on it then.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			You think that’s funny .
What’s your take on it then.
		
Click to expand...

I think the conspirancy theories and everyone’s against us is funny, like I said last night, don’t see any of this fuss when you’ve benefitted from dodgy VAR decisions or other clubs have suffered.

If VVD had been onside, penalty to LPool.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I think the conspirancy theories and everyone’s against us is funny, like I said last night, don’t see any of this fuss when you’ve benefitted from dodgy VAR decisions or other clubs have suffered.

If VVD had been onside, penalty to LPool.
		
Click to expand...

I think Oliver and the Lino had perfect views.
They just havnt done their job.!
VAR is not fit for purpose And if they viewed that and still don’t think it’s red he should not be in charge of VAR.
And I have said lots of times refs should have to explain themselves after games including the crap ones that have gone in Liverpool’s favour.They are paid to do a job!!

They are doing it to often or we would have nothing to discuss


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			as useless as Pogba is, utd have extended His contract 😖 nowt to do with his value. I would be frustrated with him in my team.
		
Click to expand...

That was done purely, imo, to retain a resale value this January or more likely next summer. I think his contract was up otherwise and that would be negligent in the extreme, known as doing an Arsenal 😆, to allow an £80m buy to go for free. 

Enjoy him being at the club still, utd are all the poorer for him being there.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think Oliver and the Lino had perfect views.
They just havnt done their job.!
VAR is not fit for purpose And if they viewed that and still don’t think it’s red he should not be in charge of VAR.
And I have said lots of times refs should have to explain themselves after games including the crap ones that have gone in Liverpool’s favour.They are paid to do a job!!

They are doing it to often or we would have nothing to discuss
		
Click to expand...

Your turn now, any comment on the 2 Mane incidents? 2 Yellow? 1 Yellow and 1 Red?
First one for sumulation, yes Gomes boot was high, but never made contact, 2nd one? Straight Red for kicking out?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I think the conspirancy theories and everyone’s against us is funny, like I said last night, don’t see any of this fuss when you’ve benefitted from dodgy VAR decisions or other clubs have suffered.

If VVD had been onside, penalty to LPool.
		
Click to expand...

No matter onside/ offside or pen. Red for all scenarios.


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 18, 2020)




----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Your turn now, any comment on the 2 Mane incidents? 2 Yellow? 1 Yellow and 1 Red?
First one for sumulation, yes Gomes boot was high, but never made contact, 2nd one? Straight Red for kicking out?
		
Click to expand...

File alongside james waving imaginary yellow cards on 2 occasions, yellow each time, on top of his other booking.

We have been talking massive mistakes on var, not small semantics. 

The other terrible one for me was keens goal standing. Pulled thiagos shirt just before he headed it in and again checked on var and okayed.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 18, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



View attachment 32972

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂 special


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## Imurg (Oct 18, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



View attachment 32972

Click to expand...

There are people in this world who need a gentle tap on the shoulder and shown the signpost that leads them back to reality...
This is pitiful....


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2020)

Imurg said:



			There are people in this world who need a gentle tap on the shoulder and shown the signpost that leads them back to reality...
This is pitiful....
		
Click to expand...

If they were a footballer, they would hold their face, hit the deck poleaxed and ask for a red card, though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			No matter onside/ offside or pen. Red for all scenarios.
		
Click to expand...

That’s were we disagree, I don’t believe he set out to injure VVD, I saw it as Pickford spreading himself low to block the ball and coming in to contact with VVD. 

Clumsy? Absolutely!
Intentional? No, not for me.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s were we disagree, I don’t believe he set out to injure VVD, I saw it as Pickford spreading himself low to block the ball and coming in to contact with VVD.

Clumsy? Absolutely!
Intentional? No, not for me.
		
Click to expand...

So are tackles just ruled on intent any more and you class knee high as low?

Imurg, tap on the shoulder required here.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			File alongside james waving imaginary yellow cards on 2 occasions, yellow each time, on top of his other booking.

We have been talking massive mistakes on var, not small semantics.

The other terrible one for me was keens goal standing. Pulled thiagos shirt just before he headed it in and again checked on var and okayed.
		
Click to expand...

No issue if a Club wants to write to the FA for clarification on all VAR incidents in a game, but just the ones they believe went against them is laughable imo.

I’d rather put it all down to incidents that happen in a Derby and file it away, I’m sure both of us can go back many, many years and highlight decisions that we believe were wrong.

Every Club gets good and bad decisions or disagrees with correct decisions that don’t go their way.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So are tackles just ruled on intent any more and you class knee high as low?

Imurg, tap on the shoulder required here.
		
Click to expand...

Watch the incident, VVD actual pauses as the ball reaches his foot, Pickford is going down from a standing position and they come together.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No issue if a Club wants to write to the FA for clarification on all VAR incidents in a game, but just the ones they believe went against them is laughable imo.

I’d rather put it all down to incidents that happen in a Derby and file it away, I’m sure both of us can go back many, many years and highlight decisions that we believe were wrong.

Every Club gets good and bad decisions or disagrees with correct decisions that don’t go their way.
		
Click to expand...


You keep making points, then when i give a counter argument you move onto something else.

On this point, yes we do, but 3 terrible ones against you in one game, all with var, and we should just show an ,ah well attitude, and in a derby as well, pack in.

Off to golf, you have 6 hours in riposte time on earlier points made.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Watch the incident, VVD actual pauses as the ball reaches his foot, Pickford is going down from a standing position and they come together.
		
Click to expand...

How can he pause, and come together at the same time? Or where they having a bit if hows yer father. Your getting desparate now.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			How can he pause, and come together at the same time? Or where they having a bit if hows yer father. Your getting desparate now.
		
Click to expand...

Not desperate, lets play the picture game as the only one we tend to see is the one after the contact.

Here’s one just before, VVD has touched the ball and Pickford isn’t even looking at him.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			You keep making points, then when i give a counter argument you move onto something else.

On this point, yes we do, but 3 terrible ones against you in one game, all with var, and we should just show an ,ah well attitude, and in a derby as well, pack in.

Off to golf, you have 6 hours in riposte time on earlier points made.
		
Click to expand...

I counteracted your argument by proving we can do this all day, not one Lpool fan has answered the Mane questions, everyone of you has deflected, even yourself by countering it with James waving his arms!


----------



## IainP (Oct 18, 2020)

Slime said:



			Oh, and United thrashed Newcastle 1-4 this evening.
Captain Maguire getting on the score sheet, too!

Just thought I'd mention it, you know, try and change the subject a bit.
		
Click to expand...

Ah the nuances of football - I'm sure the team with 1 goal is Newcastle *United* 🤷‍♂️😁😉
But well played.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s were we disagree, I don’t believe he set out to injure VVD, I saw it as Pickford spreading himself low to block the ball and coming in to contact with VVD.

Clumsy? Absolutely!
Intentional? No, not for me.
		
Click to expand...

Nobody has said it was intentional iirc, its just a very poor tackle that any player of any side is capable of making. 

Accept its a poor tackle, red card  and move on. 

Or are we gonna continue with tit for tat, whataboutery?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



View attachment 32972

Click to expand...

I reckon Leroy Times needs to lose his virginity ASAP. Embarrassing.

Or its just a pisstake.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Nobody has said it was intentional iirc, its just a very poor tackle that any player of any side is capable of making.

Accept its a poor tackle, red card  and move on.

Or are we gonna continue with tit for tat, whataboutery?
		
Click to expand...

A poor tackle is not an automatic Red Card.

No one has denied it wasn’t poor, totally agree and have stated if it wasn’t for the offside call it was a penalty.

It seems the whataboutery must continue until all blues agree with all reds.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			A poor tackle is not an automatic Red Card.

No one has denied it wasn’t poor, totally agree and have stated if it wasn’t for the offside call it was a penalty.

*It seems the whataboutery must continue until all blues agree with all reds*.
		
Click to expand...

You believe that tackle wasn't a red?? 

Not at all.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You believe that tackle wasn't a red??

Not at all.
		
Click to expand...

Yes mate, 100%.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes mate, 100%.
		
Click to expand...

So wtf are arguing about? 😂😂😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			So wtf are arguing about? 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I believe 100% it wasn’t a Red Card.

Read your post as 2 questions, the not at all was in reference to your bold bit, otherwise, why was it in bold?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Your turn now, any comment on the 2 Mane incidents? 2 Yellow? 1 Yellow and 1 Red?
First one for sumulation, yes Gomes boot was high, but never made contact, 2nd one? Straight Red for kicking out?
		
Click to expand...

Mane is a diver everyone knows that. He goes down far to easy.
But my take is of the officials again.
They don’t give a foul when it is ,so players go down to make sure they get it.
Then everyone calls them divers. Catch 22.
Every team in the league got one or two.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Mane is a diver everyone knows that. He goes down far to easy.
But my take is of the officials again.
They don’t give a foul when it is ,so players go down to make sure they get it.
Then everyone calls them divers. Catch 22.
Every team in the league got one or two.
		
Click to expand...

So you want Refs to be interviewed to explain their decisions, but by the looks of it, it’s ok for some players to fool the Refs into wrong decisions because every club has a cheat or two.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So you want Refs to be interviewed to explain their decisions, but by the looks of it, it’s ok for some players to fool the Refs into wrong decisions because every club has a cheat or two.

Click to expand...

Yes I do .
And any player diving should be looked at by the POST MATCH DIVING PANEL.
And appropriate bans to show the PL is serious about stopping it.
Can’t see any other way everything they have tried has failed.
You want to show me where I said “it was OK”


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



_*I believe 100% it wasn’t a Red Card.*_

Read your post as 2 questions, the not at all was in reference to your bold bit, otherwise, why was it in bold?
		
Click to expand...

Wow.......I'll leave it there then.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow.......I'll leave it there then.
		
Click to expand...

You knew this last night when we chatted? Why ask again?

It would be a sad, boring world mate if everyone agreed with everything.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You knew this last night when we chatted? Why ask again?

It would be a sad, boring world mate if everyone agreed with everything.
		
Click to expand...

I was hoping you'd seen the light 😁😁


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2020)

chrisd said:



			I'm playing with 3 Arsenal fans tomorrow,  I hope I dont get the urge to take the proverbial 😁😁
		
Click to expand...


33% possession and 1 shot at home to Brighton, and that from the penalty spot, crack on taking the proverbial out of our performance at City


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

Just seen the Palace Pen......stunned.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just seen the Palace Pen......stunned.
		
Click to expand...

Bizarrely enough, not long before at the other end there had been some wrestling at a corner. Ref stops the corner being taken, talks to the 2 players. Corner gets taken, defender wraps arms around the attacker, ref has a clear view, does nothing. Up the other end shortly after..........................

I believe the technical term is 'soft'


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2020)

West Ham not done their homework then lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



View attachment 32972

Click to expand...

Only need to read the replies to him from many Liverpool to see they are embarrassed by him or think it’s a parody account set up to take the mick.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only need to read the replies to him from many Liverpool to see they are embarrassed by him or think it’s a parody account set up to take the mick.
		
Click to expand...

Either way it’s a funny read.

If genuine I am sure every club has someone equally delusional following them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Either way it’s a funny read.

If genuine I am sure every club has someone equally delusional following them.
		
Click to expand...

It’s very funny - even more so if he was serious , some of the “petitions” suggested over the past couple of weeks etc is hilarious


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bizarrely enough, not long before at the other end there had been some wrestling at a corner. Ref stops the corner being taken, talks to the 2 players. Corner gets taken, defender wraps arms around the attacker, ref has a clear view, does nothing. Up the other end shortly after..........................

I believe the technical term is 'soft'
		
Click to expand...

If pens were given for the jostling at corners every game, there'd be 15 pens a game.

That today was pathetic


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Either way it’s a funny read.

If genuine I am sure every club has someone equally delusional following them.
		
Click to expand...

I had a quick look at his timeline history, he's definitely not from Liverpool.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If pens were given for the jostling at corners every game, there'd be 15 pens a game.

That today was pathetic
		
Click to expand...

Var at the last world cup managed to stop it happening very quickly. It seems as though refs are happy to give more leeway in this country. Personally I enjoyed watching the world cup without defenders wrestling attackers. They actually had to defend properly. 

Today was very pathetic, agreed.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2020)

Spurs looking as good as anyone this season and into 7/1 to win the premier league. At what point do we start to worry (i think I already am!)


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## SteveW86 (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I had a quick look at his timeline history, he's definitely not from Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

Not a real fan then


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## pauljames87 (Oct 18, 2020)

fundy said:



			Spurs looking as good as anyone this season and into 7/1 to win the premier league. At what point do we start to worry (i think I already am!)
		
Click to expand...

Jose taken them and especially kane to another level


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## davemc1 (Oct 18, 2020)

West Ham clearly missing noble 🥺


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## pauljames87 (Oct 18, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			West Ham clearly missing noble 🥺
		
Click to expand...

Would be 6 with that clown on


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## chrisd (Oct 18, 2020)

fundy said:



			33% possession and 1 shot at home to Brighton, and that from the penalty spot, crack on taking the proverbial out of our performance at City 

Click to expand...

Oh believe me Fundy, I'm stupid enough to!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just seen the Palace Pen......stunned.
		
Click to expand...

It’s Stuart Atwell - nothing surprises me with him 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317819460653297675
Seen it a number of times now and I have no idea what the penalty was for.


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## Orikoru (Oct 18, 2020)

I must say this has been a very enjoyable first half. Personal highlight was Kane's nutmeg on Rice for the second goal. It looks like Jose finally has the squad to do what he wants to do.


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## Kellfire (Oct 18, 2020)

Not sure if it’s been put on here yet (loads posted since I was on last night!) but VVD is having surgery.


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## Kellfire (Oct 18, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Ok Karen 🙄
		
Click to expand...

So you think it’s ok to condescend an official? That alone should’ve been a red card.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 18, 2020)

What an impact by Bale....


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I must say this has been a very enjoyable first half. Personal highlight was Kane's nutmeg on Rice for the second goal. It looks like Jose finally has the squad to do what he wants to do. 

Click to expand...

Have to say WH deserved that.


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## Dando (Oct 18, 2020)

What a goal!
I wonder if Kane will try and claim it


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2020)

Wow just wow, what strike from Lanzini. How did Spurs not win that


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## Orikoru (Oct 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I must say this has been a very enjoyable first half. Personal highlight was Kane's nutmeg on Rice for the second goal. It looks like Jose finally has the squad to do what he wants to do. 

Click to expand...

Delete.

What an absolute joke.


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## AmandaJR (Oct 18, 2020)

Ha ha ha - great impact Gareth Bale...scuffed free kick and 3 goals conceded since he came on! You couldn't make it up!


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## pauljames87 (Oct 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I must say this has been a very enjoyable first half. Personal highlight was Kane's nutmeg on Rice for the second goal. It looks like Jose finally has the squad to do what he wants to do. 

Click to expand...

My personal highlight was being 3-0 down at the 80th min and getting a point


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## Orikoru (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Have to say WH deserved that.
		
Click to expand...

Don't really agree. Our second half performance was a joke. We should have come out and added three more goals but we looked like a different team. Scratching my head here.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2020)

Now theres a game Id pay £14.95 to watch


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			So you think it’s ok to condescend an official? That alone should’ve been a red card.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure if serious 🧐🙄


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2020)

So surgery for VVD - they haven’t said how bad the damage is but see a few say it’s not a full tear , so not 100% out for the season but either way it’s a huge loss.

Also it appears that the VAR ref didn’t think the two footed lunge was dangerous - no wonder he has been suspended from games before


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Not sure if it’s been put on here yet (loads posted since I was on last night!) but VVD is having surgery.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah apparently he’s the first player ever to be injured & Pickford should be banned until VVD returns 🤷‍♂️😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Don't really agree. Our second half performance was a joke. We should have come out and added three more goals but we looked like a different team. Scratching my head here.
		
Click to expand...

Changed the dynamic of the team just to put A half fit Bale on who missed a sitter 30secs before the equaliser.
WH had other chances you were lucky to get a draw


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I must say this has been a very enjoyable first half. Personal highlight was Kane's nutmeg on Rice for the second goal. It looks like Jose finally has the squad to do what he wants to do. 

Click to expand...

2nd half was much better🤭🤭


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So surgery for VVD - they haven’t said how bad the damage is but see a few say it’s not a full tear , so not 100% out for the season but either way it’s a huge loss.

Also it appears that the VAR ref didn’t think the two footed lunge was dangerous - no wonder he has been suspended from games before
		
Click to expand...

Grade 3 tear *alledgedly*


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## Orikoru (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Changed the dynamic of the team just to put A half fit Bale on who missed a sitter 30secs before the equaliser.
		
Click to expand...

Missed a sitter? He mugged the player on the edge of the box to get the chance and dragged it just wide when a last ditch challenge put him off balance.

Two set pieces and a lucky OG and we've peed it away. Mourinho is supposed be the master of defence resilience but while the likes of Sanchez and Aurier are still around he's got no hope.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So surgery for VVD - they haven’t said how bad the damage is but see a few say it’s not a full tear , so not 100% out for the season but either way it’s a huge loss.

Also it appears that the VAR ref didn’t think the two footed lunge was dangerous - no wonder he has been suspended from games before
		
Click to expand...

There are a few who agree with him ,but not many.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Changed the dynamic of the team just to put A half fit Bale on who missed a sitter 30secs before the equaliser.
WH had other chances you were lucky to get a draw

Click to expand...

That half fit bale ran from the hallway line and absolutely schooled the cb twice. Anyone can mis a sitter.....


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Missed a sitter? He mugged the player on the edge of the box to get the chance and dragged it just wide when a last ditch challenge put him off balance.

Two set pieces and a lucky OG and we've peed it away. Mourinho is supposed be the master of defence resilience but while the likes of Sanchez and Aurier are still around he's got no hope.
		
Click to expand...

What do you call a chance to score from 10yds right in front of the goal?
I call it a sitter!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Grade 3 tear *alledgedly*
		
Click to expand...

That’s a full complete tear and 12 months out - don’t think he could have walked of there pitch if true


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			That half fit bale ran from the hallway line and absolutely schooled the cb twice. Anyone can mis a sitter.....
		
Click to expand...

Did you see the pictures of him blowing for tugs just after the run.
He looked like he had run the marathon.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Did you see the pictures of him blowing for tugs just after the run.
He looked like he had run the marathon.

Click to expand...

Yes I did. But his fitness didn’t impede him on said run.
it’s a freak result, but Bale was there to attack. The shocking defence are to blame, not  ales apparently lack of fitness.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s a full complete tear and 12 months out - don’t think he could have walked of there pitch if true
		
Click to expand...

That was my initial thoughts but either way it doesn't look good


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## pauljames87 (Oct 18, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Ha ha ha - great impact Gareth Bale...scuffed free kick and 3 goals conceded since he came on! You couldn't make it up!
		
Click to expand...




Orikoru said:



			Missed a sitter? He mugged the player on the edge of the box to get the chance and dragged it just wide when a last ditch challenge put him off balance.

Two set pieces and a lucky OG and we've peed it away. Mourinho is supposed be the master of defence resilience but while the likes of Sanchez and Aurier are still around he's got no hope.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah just after he completely gave the ball away and started a counter 

Soon as that first goal went in you crumbled. Your awful at the back but going forward amazing


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Yes I did. But his fitness didn’t impede him on said run.
it’s a freak result, but Bale was there to attack. The shocking defence are to blame, not  ales apparently lack of fitness.
		
Click to expand...

So both things I said are true.
Missed a sitter.
Only half fit.


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## Jensen (Oct 18, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Jose taken them and especially kane to another level
		
Click to expand...

He certainly has....🥺


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## SteveW86 (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That was my initial thoughts but either way it doesn't look good
		
Click to expand...

Whatever it is, hopefully he has a smooth recovery. The league is worse off without him playing. 

Also a real shame if he can’t play in the Euros next summer


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Missed a sitter? He mugged the player on the edge of the box to get the chance and dragged it just wide when a last ditch challenge put him off balance.

Two set pieces and a lucky OG and we've peed it away. Mourinho is supposed be the master of defence resilience but while the likes of Sanchez and Aurier are still around he's got no hope.
		
Click to expand...


Aurier ahead of Doherty cant be the long term plan can it?


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## Jensen (Oct 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Don't really agree. Our second half performance was a joke. We should have come out and added three more goals but we looked like a different team. Scratching my head here.
		
Click to expand...

Surely,  you’re not starting to agree with me about Mourinho !


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That was my initial thoughts but either way it doesn't look good
		
Click to expand...

We will struggle without him.
Gomez still looks lost to me ,he hasn’t been the same since his injury.
Robbo marking CL for the second goal was a mismatch.
Hope VVD Recovers ok.


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## AmandaJR (Oct 18, 2020)

Crikey. I just watched a Mourinho interview without turning over...he didn't talk in riddles and was fairly open and honest - world's going mad.


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## Slime (Oct 18, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Jose taken them and especially kane to another level
		
Click to expand...

Yup, they can now let a 3 goal lead slip in just a few minutes!
Superb third goal ................................... I absolutely loved it.


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## Orikoru (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			What do you call a chance to score from 10yds right in front of the goal?
I call it a sitter!
		
Click to expand...

He ran from his own half to get on the end of it, skinned the player to create the chance and Yarmolenko made the challenge (foul really but you don't get them) that made him miss. That's what I call it. It's never a sitter if you create the chance yourself with a great piece of skill is it. Use your loaf.


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## Orikoru (Oct 18, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Yeah just after he completely gave the ball away and started a counter

Soon as that first goal went in you crumbled. Your awful at the back but going forward amazing
		
Click to expand...

I hate Sanchez and Aurier, I'm gutted we couldn't get Skriniar in or a similar level defender. For me that was more important than the back-up striker everyone went on about.


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## adam6177 (Oct 18, 2020)

If you ever need to define "spursy" to anyone show them the last 10 minutes of that game. That's a collapse of epic proportions.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I hate Sanchez and Aurier, I'm gutted we couldn't get Skriniar in or a similar level defender. For me that was more important than the back-up striker everyone went on about.
		
Click to expand...

That Swansea CB suppose to be good

Yeah defo improvement needed

3-0 at home and draw last second


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## Orikoru (Oct 18, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Surely,  you’re not starting to agree with me about Mourinho !
		
Click to expand...

But our attacking play has been incredible for most of this season? You always said it wouldn't be. So no I obviously don't agree. Notably we're currently the exact opposite of a normal Mourinho team - great going forward and can't defend.


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## Kellfire (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s a full complete tear and 12 months out - don’t think he could have walked of there pitch if true
		
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Yea he could. You can still walk without an ACL but the range of moment is limited, especially laterally.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So both things I said are true.
Missed a sitter.
Only half fit.
		
Click to expand...

Your original point was that a half fit bale changed the dynamic. That simply wasn’t true. He may have been tired after the Run, but hemeans still the guy clearing the edge of the box before the wonder strike.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He ran from his own half to get on the end of it, skinned the player to create the chance and Yarmolenko made the challenge (foul really but you don't get them) that made him miss. That's what I call it. It's never a sitter if you create the chance yourself with a great piece of skill is it. Use your loaf. 

Click to expand...

Dosnt matter what he does before he missed .
He missed the target from 10yds.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Dosnt matter what he does before he missed .
He missed the target from 10yds.
		
Click to expand...

Got to least work the keeper


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Not desperate, lets play the picture game as the only one we tend to see is the one after the contact.

Here’s one just before, VVD has touched the ball and Pickford isn’t even looking at him.
View attachment 32973


Click to expand...

Well you profess to know your refereeing, so lets be specific:-

1. Is a player allowed to take a player out at the knee, even if the ref has blown his whistle.
2. Nowadays, is intent (or lack of) a good enough defence when a reckless or dangerous tackle has been committed?
3. Was Pickford "in control".
4. 2 frames on, and Ive seen moving pictures, Pickford's knees are level with VVD on impact (you can see JP's boot is equally as high on your still picture, the other boot is also that high by the time contact is made, btw.
5. You class this contact as "low" - my god, what would you class as high - throat level?
6. Would you class JP as a Rash keeper, or at least rash on many occasions? Rash may not necessarily mean dirty or malicious, but rash can be dangerous, btw.
7. Do you think Richarlison's was a red?

I dont expect any sympathy from blues, because I agree, we have had more decisions go our way over the years than against us in derbies, although we've also had some shockers against us as well, but 100% NOT a red. Come on?

My main problem is 3 VAR's went against us yesterday, and all 3 were shockers, not subjective ones.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well you profess to know your refereeing, so lets be specific:-

1. Is a player allowed to take a player out at the knee, even if the ref has blown his whistle.
*Again, it’s not black and white, it’s subjective if a tackle is deemed serious foul play, if you are asking can a Red Card be given after the Ref has blown his whistle the answer is Yes for Violent Conduct.*
2. Nowadays, is intent (or lack of) a good enough defence when a reckless or dangerous tackle has been committed?
*As above, it comes down to how the Ref or in this case Ref and VAR Official view it.*
3. Was Pickford "in control".
*If by “in control” you mean “was his movement intentional” then yes, imo he was, and imo, his intent was to spread himself and block the ball.*
4. 2 frames on, and Ive seen moving pictures, Pickford's knees are level with VVD on impact (you can see JP's boot is equally as high on your still picture, the other boot is also that high by the time contact is made, btw.
*You also see in the pictures VVD’s foot is planted.*
5. You class this contact as "low" - my god, what would you class as high - throat level?
*Misunderstanding or bad explanation from me, I mean low as in he’s going from an upright/standing position to the ground.*
6. Would you class JP as a Rash keeper, or at least rash on many occasions? Rash may not necessarily mean dirty or malicious, but rash can be dangerous, btw.
*I don’t rate Pickford, but in all honesty I’ve never seen him injure or do something dangerous involving another player, I have seen a picture today of an incident with him and Alli, but don’t remember it.*
7. Do you think Richarlison's was a red? *Absolute stone wall*

I dont expect any sympathy from blues, because I agree, we have had more decisions go our way over the years than against us in derbies, although we've also had some shockers against us as well, but 100% NOT a red. Come on?
*For it to be a Red for me there has to be intent and with it happening so fast I genuinely believe he did what I’d expect any keeper to do and attempt to block the ball, it was clumsy and momentum took him into VVD, I’d give a penalty and at most a yellow card, but believe a penalty was enough punishment.*

My main problem is 3 VAR's went against us yesterday, and all 3 were shockers, not subjective ones.
*You keep saying 3 shockers, I haven’t seen any mention, by anyone else but you of 3 instances, everywhere else it’s 2. *

*The VAR offside is a joke, next week the same margin will go the other way.*

*The VVD/Pickford incident they claim (VAR lot) was not seen as Violent Conduct and that is the only offence considered after a whistle has been blown.*

*Keane’s goal, I still haven’t seen, after watching it back, any offence by him.*

Click to expand...

Tried to be honest with all my answers, and as you put earlier James was looking for cards etc, and I agree it’s another area that needs clamping down on.

1. Should Mane have been booked for diving?

2. Should Mane of been given a Red Card for kicking Mina.

3. Were was VAR when TAA clearly pulled Richarlison’s shirt when he hit the post with a header?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Tried to be honest with all my answers, and as you put earlier James was looking for cards etc, and I agree it’s another area that needs clamping down on.

1. Should Mane have been booked for diving?

2. Should Mane of been given a Red Card for kicking Mina.

3. Were was VAR when TAA clearly pulled Richarlison’s shirt when he hit the post with a header?
		
Click to expand...

We could go all day .
Your player did this ,our player did that.
If Pickford tackle was outside the box he would be in the bath before Richarlison.
That’s why I Think Oliver hasn’t done his job.
I am off to bed to watch motd.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			We could go all day .
Your player did this ,our player did that.
If Pickford tackle was outside the box he would be in the bath before Richarlison.
That’s why I Think Oliver hasn’t done his job.
I am off to bed to watch motd.
		
Click to expand...

Pete asked me some direct questions! Are you suggesting I should ignore him?

P.S. Were on the pitch it happened is irrelevant if VVD was offside in build up and Officials don’t see it as violent conduct......keep up!


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## Kellfire (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Pete asked me some direct questions! Are you suggesting I should ignore him?

P.S. Were on the pitch it happened is irrelevant if VVD was offside in build up and Officials don’t see it as violent conduct......keep up!
		
Click to expand...

The offside doesn’t matter. Do you accept that?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Tried to be honest with all my answers, and as you put earlier James was looking for cards etc, and I agree it’s another area that needs clamping down on.

1. Should Mane have been booked for diving?

2. Should Mane of been given a Red Card for kicking Mina.

3. Were was VAR when TAA clearly pulled Richarlison’s shirt when he hit the post with a header?
		
Click to expand...

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Dont know, maybe having a cup of tea like he was for the VVD challenge.

Answers qualified by subjectivity / do we want VAR to look at every bit of contact and do we want to games finish 7 a side, if every indiscretion is booked / equalled by Gomez's deliberate foul on Fabinho, Richarlison's weekly dive fest etc - all of these are not glaringly bad decisions and can be talked about in every single premiership game. I was talking about the MASSIVE mistakes. MASSIVE vs Whataboutery are on different levels to each other.

Now the meaty stuff:-


1. Is a player allowed to take a player out at the knee, even if the ref has blown his whistle.
*Again, it’s not black and white, it’s subjective if a tackle is deemed serious foul play, if you are asking can a Red Card be given after the Ref has blown his whistle the answer is Yes for Violent Conduct. OK, but 99.9% of journalists, pundits, neutrals and even a large body of blues have said it was, unconditionally. *
2. Nowadays, is intent (or lack of) a good enough defence when a reckless or dangerous tackle has been committed?
*As above, it comes down to how the Ref or in this case Ref and VAR Official view it. When a tackle is that bad, for a good few years intent has been taken out of it and replaced by "was he in control". If you think JP was in control, well, wow.*
3. Was Pickford "in control".
*If by “in control” you mean “was his movement intentional” then yes, imo he was, and imo, his intent was to spread himself and block the ball. No-one intends to give a penalty away, they intend to tackle tha ball, but many times they take the man - what happens when a defender intends to take the ball but takes the man instead. I'll tell you now a foul/penalty is given. If the tackle is dangerous and out of control, he is also sent off. He took the opponent out, knee high, with knees and boots approx 2 foot off the ground, and with the ball approx 2 foot away. Why do you keep pushing the intent angle?*
4. 2 frames on, and Ive seen moving pictures, Pickford's knees are level with VVD on impact (you can see JP's boot is equally as high on your still picture, the other boot is also that high by the time contact is made, btw.
*You also see in the pictures VVD’s foot is planted. Whether VVD's foot is planted or not,JP takes him out at the knee. Irrelavent. *
5. You class this contact as "low" - my god, what would you class as high - throat level?
*Misunderstanding or bad explanation from me, I mean low as in he’s going from an upright/standing position to the ground. So you mean lower, again irrelevant, he misses the ball by some distance with both legs, and takes out the man. *
6. Would you class JP as a Rash keeper, or at least rash on many occasions? Rash may not necessarily mean dirty or malicious, but rash can be dangerous, btw.
*I don’t rate Pickford, but in all honesty I’ve never seen him injure or do something dangerous involving another player, I have seen a picture today of an incident with him and Alli, but don’t remember it. As I said not necessarily meaning dirty or malicious, I asked is he Rash? Rash can mean getting involved in general play or close to his own defenders more than he should etc. Just look at the England game during the week, should he have even got close to walker at the time. To me he is a rash keeper.*
7. Do you think Richarlison's was a red? *Absolute stone wall. This was a tackle that, luckily, was a glancing blow by Richarlison, but it was a straight leg tackle at the knee and was rightly a red card. To indulge you in your intent angle, I dont think Richarlison intended to do him or will give him the benefit of the doubt, but again irrelavent. Richarlison hits Thiago's knee with one boot, JP hits VVD either side of his knee and follows fully through with his groin onto VVD's knee, and you dont think it's a red? Its twice a red that Richarlison's was. *

I dont expect any sympathy from blues, because I agree, we have had more decisions go our way over the years than against us in derbies, although we've also had some shockers against us as well, but 100% NOT a red. Come on?
*For it to be a Red for me there has to be intent and with it happening so fast I genuinely believe he did what I’d expect any keeper to do and attempt to block the ball, it was clumsy and momentum took him into VVD, I’d give a penalty and at most a yellow card, but believe a penalty was enough punishment. Your not in charge of PGMOL and neither am I. I'm sure we would both like many rules and laws of the game different, but we dont have that luxury. Under the rules intent has been taken out of it for dangerous out of control tackles, so ignore the intent malarkey.  *

My main problem is 3 VAR's went against us yesterday, and all 3 were shockers, not subjective ones.
*You keep saying 3 shockers, I haven’t seen any mention, by anyone else but you of 3 instances, everywhere else it’s 2.*

*Hardly anyone has mentioned it, but before Keane heads it in he pulls Thiagos shirt by approx 1 foot. If another Everton player had done it not a problem, but for the goalscorer to be allowed to pull someones shirt less than a second before he heads it in is a foul for me.*

*The VAR offside is a joke, next week the same margin will go the other way.*

*The VVD/Pickford incident they claim (VAR lot) was not seen as Violent Conduct and that is the only offence considered after a whistle has been blown. One minute they are saying they didnt look at it, not sure if they are changing their mind now. If thats not violent conduct, what is?*

*Keane’s goal, I still haven’t seen, after watching it back, any offence by him.* shirtpull.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Pete asked me some direct questions! Are you suggesting I should ignore him?

P.S. Were on the pitch it happened is irrelevant if VVD was offside in build up and Officials don’t see it as violent conduct......keep up!
		
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You managed to ignore my direct question in post 1492.

Keep up.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 18, 2020)

A totally neutral viewpoint.

Yes Pickford should have been sent off. His intent is irrelevant, he has recklessly endangered another player and he was most certainly not in control .

The disallowed "goal" was rightly disallowed under the current offside rule (T-shirt rule means a goal can be scored by the upper arm) and how offside has been judged by VAR since its introduction. 

So two big decisions and one was wrong and the  other correct. 50% is not exactly a ringing endorsement for the use of technology.


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## Fish (Oct 18, 2020)

Dog & Bone springs to mind


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Dont know, maybe having a cup of tea like he was for the VVD challenge.

Answers qualified by subjectivity / do we want VAR to look at every bit of contact and do we want to games finish 7 a side, if every indiscretion is booked / equalled by Gomez's deliberate foul on Fabinho, Richarlison's weekly dive fest etc - all of these are not glaringly bad decisions and can be talked about in every single premiership game. I was talking about the MASSIVE mistakes. MASSIVE vs Whataboutery are on different levels to each other.

Now the meaty stuff:-


1. Is a player allowed to take a player out at the knee, even if the ref has blown his whistle.
*Again, it’s not black and white, it’s subjective if a tackle is deemed serious foul play, if you are asking can a Red Card be given after the Ref has blown his whistle the answer is Yes for Violent Conduct. OK, but 99.9% of journalists, pundits, neutrals and even a large body of blues have said it was, unconditionally. *
2. Nowadays, is intent (or lack of) a good enough defence when a reckless or dangerous tackle has been committed?
*As above, it comes down to how the Ref or in this case Ref and VAR Official view it. When a tackle is that bad, for a good few years intent has been taken out of it and replaced by "was he in control". If you think JP was in control, well, wow.*
3. Was Pickford "in control".
*If by “in control” you mean “was his movement intentional” then yes, imo he was, and imo, his intent was to spread himself and block the ball. No-one intends to give a penalty away, they intend to tackle tha ball, but many times they take the man - what happens when a defender intends to take the ball but takes the man instead. I'll tell you now a foul/penalty is given. If the tackle is dangerous and out of control, he is also sent off. He took the opponent out, knee high, with knees and boots approx 2 foot off the ground, and with the ball approx 2 foot away. Why do you keep pushing the intent angle?*
4. 2 frames on, and Ive seen moving pictures, Pickford's knees are level with VVD on impact (you can see JP's boot is equally as high on your still picture, the other boot is also that high by the time contact is made, btw.
*You also see in the pictures VVD’s foot is planted. Whether VVD's foot is planted or not,JP takes him out at the knee. Irrelavent. *
5. You class this contact as "low" - my god, what would you class as high - throat level?
*Misunderstanding or bad explanation from me, I mean low as in he’s going from an upright/standing position to the ground. So you mean lower, again irrelevant, he misses the ball by some distance with both legs, and takes out the man. *
6. Would you class JP as a Rash keeper, or at least rash on many occasions? Rash may not necessarily mean dirty or malicious, but rash can be dangerous, btw.
*I don’t rate Pickford, but in all honesty I’ve never seen him injure or do something dangerous involving another player, I have seen a picture today of an incident with him and Alli, but don’t remember it. As I said not necessarily meaning dirty or malicious, I asked is he Rash? Rash can mean getting involved in general play or close to his own defenders more than he should etc. Just look at the England game during the week, should he have even got close to walker at the time. To me he is a rash keeper.*
7. Do you think Richarlison's was a red? *Absolute stone wall. This was a tackle that, luckily, was a glancing blow by Richarlison, but it was a straight leg tackle at the knee and was rightly a red card. To indulge you in your intent angle, I dont think Richarlison intended to do him or will give him the benefit of the doubt, but again irrelavent. Richarlison hits Thiago's knee with one boot, JP hits VVD either side of his knee and follows fully through with his groin onto VVD's knee, and you dont think it's a red? Its twice a red that Richarlison's was. *

I dont expect any sympathy from blues, because I agree, we have had more decisions go our way over the years than against us in derbies, although we've also had some shockers against us as well, but 100% NOT a red. Come on?
*For it to be a Red for me there has to be intent and with it happening so fast I genuinely believe he did what I’d expect any keeper to do and attempt to block the ball, it was clumsy and momentum took him into VVD, I’d give a penalty and at most a yellow card, but believe a penalty was enough punishment. Your not in charge of PGMOL and neither am I. I'm sure we would both like many rules and laws of the game different, but we dont have that luxury. Under the rules intent has been taken out of it for dangerous out of control tackles, so ignore the intent malarkey.  *

My main problem is 3 VAR's went against us yesterday, and all 3 were shockers, not subjective ones.
*You keep saying 3 shockers, I haven’t seen any mention, by anyone else but you of 3 instances, everywhere else it’s 2.*

*Hardly anyone has mentioned it, but before Keane heads it in he pulls Thiagos shirt by approx 1 foot. If another Everton player had done it not a problem, but for the goalscorer to be allowed to pull someones shirt less than a second before he heads it in is a foul for me.*

*The VAR offside is a joke, next week the same margin will go the other way.*

*The VVD/Pickford incident they claim (VAR lot) was not seen as Violent Conduct and that is the only offence considered after a whistle has been blown. One minute they are saying they didnt look at it, not sure if they are changing their mind now. If thats not violent conduct, what is?*

*Keane’s goal, I still haven’t seen, after watching it back, any offence by him.* shirtpull.

Click to expand...

Never going to agree on the Pickford/VVD challenge.

The mistakes you highlight are “MASSIVE” in your words, yet 2 of the same offences done by your players are dismissed as “whataboutery” your third mistake is even more “whataboutery” as you agreed Mane should of been sent off and then he wouldn’t of been offside.

Isn’t this whole discussion based on opinions and what ifs?

Do I want VAR to look at every single decision? No, it’s ruined the game enough, but I don’t understand how you can pick and choose which sending off offences it ignores or which shirt pull it ignores.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Never going to agree on the Pickford/VVD challenge.

The mistakes you highlight are “MASSIVE” in your words, yet 2 of the same offences done by your players are dismissed as “whataboutery” your third mistake is even more “whataboutery” as you agreed Mane should of been sent off and then he wouldn’t of been offside.

Isn’t this whole discussion based on opinions and what ifs?

Do I want VAR to look at every single decision? No, it’s ruined the game enough, but I don’t understand how you can pick and choose which sending off offences it ignores or which shirt pull it ignores.
		
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Refer back to do you want games to finish 8 a side.

If you would have asked 100 neutrals should mane have been sent off, I think 99 would wonder what your on about. Pure deflection.

Ive had my say, if you want to polish the blue spectacles go ahead.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



*Refer back to do you want games to finish 7 a side*.

If you would have asked 100 neutrals should mane have been sent off, I think 99 would wonder what your on about. Pure deflection.

Ive had my say, if you want to polish the blue spectacles go ahead.
		
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Pssst, its against the rules for that to happen, you must have a minimum of 8 players per side😉

As you were.....


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Pssst, its against the rules for that to happen, you must have a minimum of 8 players per side😉

As you were.....
		
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I said 8 a side.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I said 8 a side.

Click to expand...

🤥🤥🤥


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2020)

Pickford should definitely have had a red, for 'serious foul play' as per the laws. I don't think it matters that it technically wasn't in play because of the offside. If you're reckless and endanger a player the card should still stand. I also don't believe he's done him on purpose, he's just throwing all his limbs out trying to make a point blank save, but he's made an absolute mess of it and endangered the player.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 19, 2020)

If a player can be red carded after the final whistle has been blown, why can’t Pickford have been carded?
if an outfield player had done that they would have been red carded straight away regardless of where and when.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Pickford should definitely have had a red, for 'serious foul play' as per the laws. I don't think it matters that it technically wasn't in play because of the offside. If you're reckless and endanger a player the card should still stand. I also don't believe he's done him on purpose, he's just throwing all his limbs out trying to make a point blank save, but he's made an absolute mess of it and endangered the player.
		
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Tell me again how you felt over Son breaking Gomes’s leg tackling from behind, nowhere near the ball, by accident.


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Tell me again how you felt over Son breaking Gomes’s leg tackling from behind, nowhere near the ball, by accident.

Click to expand...

Not even similar is it? He just tripped him with a late tackle. He wasn't both feet off the ground and making contact at knee height. Do you want some ketchup for that chip on your shoulder?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Refer back to do you want games to finish 8 a side.

If you would have asked 100 neutrals should mane have been sent off, I think 99 would wonder what your on about. Pure deflection.

Ive had my say, if you want to polish the blue spectacles go ahead.
		
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You crack on Pete, I’ve made my feelings quite clear on VAR and what I don’t want to see.

Amazing the nuetrals would question if Mane should be sent off, yet you’re the only red that has mentioned Keane, I wonder how the nuetrals would comment on that.

As for blue spectacles, please, said all along it was a foul and a penalty, just not a red card, but mention the Lpool moments and I get accussed of deflection.

Maybe the shop we bought our glasses sell both red & blue.🤷‍♂️


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not even similar is it? He just tripped him with a late tackle. He wasn't both feet off the ground and making contact at knee height. Do you want some ketchup for that chip on your shoulder? 

Click to expand...

Tripped 😂😂😂 nice one!


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2020)

Thought it was a great Merseyside derby ..

Liverpool didn't win

Their team weakened again ... (Not celebrating his injury ofc very sad for the league losing the best defender however we will now see how "amazing" Liverpool are with some injuries to deal with... Just like laporte being out last season ..)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Pickford should definitely have had a red, for 'serious foul play' as per the laws. I don't think it matters that it technically wasn't in play because of the offside. If you're reckless and endanger a player the card should still stand. I also don't believe he's done him on purpose, he's just throwing all his limbs out trying to make a point blank save, but he's made an absolute mess of it and endangered the player.
		
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Bunkermagnet said:



			If a player can be red carded after the final whistle has been blown, why can’t Pickford have been carded?
if an outfield player had done that they would have been red carded straight away regardless of where and when.
		
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Can we just clarify this, before I start I DO NOT agree with it, but it’s the current laws of the game:

If VVD had been onside, all options etc were available to the Ref/VAR.

As he was judged offside the only decision that can be considered after that is Violent Conduct, all other decisions are off the table.

Therefore, serious foul play was/is not an option.

Again, I am not saying this is fair, just explaining why it didn’t happen.

Whether we agree or not the PGMOL have stated the VAR Official did consider Violent Conduct and believed it wasn’t.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Can we just clarify this, before I start I DO NOT agree with it, but it’s the current laws of the game:

If VVD had been onside, all options etc were available to the Ref/VAR.

As he was judged offside the only decision that can be considered after that is Violent Conduct, all other decisions are off the table.

Therefore, serious foul play was/is not an option.

Again, I am not saying this is fair, just explaining why it didn’t happen.

Whether we agree or not the PGMOL have stated the VAR Official did consider Violent Conduct and believed it wasn’t.
		
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I did not know that. Interesting . Every day a learning day and all that. You want to memo that to Alan Shearer as he got it wrong on MotD as well 

On that basis I'd agree, I have previously said it should be a red but I see that was now based on all options being open to the ref. It is was reckless and clumsy but it was not violent conduct.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I did not know that. Interesting . Every day a learning day and all that. You want to memo that to Alan Shearer as he got it wrong on MotD as well 

On that basis I'd agree, I have previously said it should be a red but I see that was now based on all options being open to the ref. It is was reckless and clumsy but it was not violent conduct.
		
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Best put your tin hat on!
The Law is an ass in this case, unfortunately it won’t be the only “stupid” law.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Best put your tin hat on!
The Law is an ass in this case, unfortunately it won’t be the only “stupid” law.
		
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It's on 

It is an ass but it is like one of those crime cases where the judge directs the jury and tells them the only options that are available to them. It may go against common sense but if that is the law that is all you can do.


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2020)

I couldn't find the law saying what things can still be a red after play is judged to have stopped. I'd have thought a reckless challenge that endangers a player _would_ be one of those things - but if it's not, then ok. Pickford is a lucky boy either way. Van Dijk not so much.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 19, 2020)

Aston Villa 

That is all


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I couldn't find the law saying what things can still be a red after play is judged to have stopped. I'd have thought a reckless challenge that endangers a player _would_ be one of those things - but if it's not, then ok. Pickford is a lucky boy either way. Van Dijk not so much.
		
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It’s here, again, not agreeing with it as it’s open to interpratation:
Peter Walton on BT saturday said he thought it was Violent Conduct and the VAR guy got it wrong:

On the FA website the IFAB Laws of the Game 2020-21 state the following under Law 11: Offside.
In situations where:

        a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence.

        an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge.


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## 4LEX (Oct 19, 2020)

I can't believe that Pickford incident....VVD is the one player Liverpool can't replace. 

City and Pep must be rubbing their hands together, especially if Ageuro can stay fit. Changes the title race big time.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s here, again, not agreeing with it as it’s open to interpratation:
Peter Walton on BT saturday said he thought it was Violent Conduct and the VAR guy got it wrong:

On the FA website the IFAB Laws of the Game 2020-21 state the following under Law 11: Offside.
In situations where:

        a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence.


        an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge.


Click to expand...

The biggest problem with that rule now is a player isn't judged to be offside until the end of the move.

This has been brought up many times that the Offside rule now as it stands is dangerous.

Leaving all players open to injury.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s here, again, not agreeing with it as it’s open to interpratation:
Peter Walton on BT saturday said he thought it was Violent Conduct and the VAR guy got it wrong:

On the FA website the IFAB Laws of the Game 2020-21 state the following under Law 11: Offside.
In situations where:

        a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence.


        an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge.


Click to expand...

Law 11 is the Law governing offside and does not refer to violent conduct or recklessly endangering an opponent. 

VVD being offside did not then mean that Pickford should not be sanctioned for his challenge. 

If that were so then, to extend your argument  players would not be punished for retaliation  as an offence had already been committed. 

The correct decision would have been a free kick to Everton for the offside decision and a red card to Pickford for the challenge.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I did not know that. Interesting . Every day a learning day and all that. You want to memo that to Alan Shearer as he got it wrong on MotD as well 

On that basis I'd agree, I have previously said it should be a red but I see that was now based on all options being open to the ref. It is was reckless and clumsy but it was not violent conduct.
		
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How can taking someone out at the knee not be violent conduct?

Dont believe all what our outdated referee tells you. He says violent conduct can still be administered, but serious foul play can't? Can you or anyone else tell me what the difference is?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Law 11 is the Law governing offside and does not refer to violent conduct or recklessly endangering an opponent.

VVD being offside did not then mean that Pickford should not be sanctioned for his challenge.

If that were so then, to extend your argument  players would not be punished for retaliation  as an offence had already been committed.

The correct decision would have been a free kick to Everton for the offside decision and a red card to Pickford for the challenge.
		
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Hallelujah!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Law 11 is the Law governing offside and does not refer to violent conduct or recklessly endangering an opponent.

VVD being offside did not then mean that Pickford should not be sanctioned for his challenge.

If that were so then, to extend your argument  players would not be punished for retaliation  as an offence had already been committed.

The correct decision would have been a free kick to Everton for the offside decision and a red card to Pickford for the challenge.
		
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Don’t shoot the messenger mate, that’s what the PGMOL put out.
https://talksport.com/football/7751...ckle-van-dijk-liverpool-merseyside-derby/amp/


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2020)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....iplinary-action-for-virgil-van-dijk-challenge

Shows how gutless the FA are and how shocking Coote is as a ref 

How can someone look at that incident and not deem it worthy of any sanction at all - it’s a red card all day long and it’s laughable that they have just bottled it and backed Coote. It’s no surprise he has been removed from games before.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....iplinary-action-for-virgil-van-dijk-challenge

Shows how gutless the FA are and how shocking Coote is as a ref

How can someone look at that incident and not deem it worthy of any sanction at all - it’s a red card all day long and it’s laughable that they have just bottled it and backed Coote. It’s no surprise he has been removed from games before.
		
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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			How can taking someone out at the knee not be violent conduct?

Dont believe all what our outdated referee tells you. He says violent conduct can still be administered, but serious foul play can't? Can you or anyone else tell me what the difference is?
		
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Violent conduct covers a deliberate act. A punch, a kick, a head butt etc. Pickford's act was not a deliberate act of violence. His eyes are on the ball, his legs are spread as any keeper does when making himself big. It is a classic pose he is in. Unfortunately it is horribly mistimed and he is too close to VVD. It is dangerous play, it is reckless but I don't term it as violent conduct.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 32976

Click to expand...

Showing your class as always.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Showing your class as always.
		
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It was two days ago now. 

If any other team moans and moans about refs we are told to get on with it. These things happen
When it's Liverpool jesus we never hear end of it


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## robinthehood (Oct 19, 2020)

I see pickford will not face any further action.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It was two days ago now.

If any other team moans and moans about refs we are told to get on with it. These things happen
When it's Liverpool jesus we never hear end of it
		
Click to expand...

Actually what I posted has just been released today 🙄

And you have the ability to not read posts if you so wish 👍


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			I see pickford will not face any further action.
		
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Rightly so. Anybody wanting any further action needs to get a life.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Actually what I posted has just been released today 🙄

And you have the ability to not read posts if you so wish 👍
		
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The fact there have been 7 other games this weekend which probably have a total of 1 page worth of postings

The Derby itself was ok has just dragged on because of a missed red card

Get over it

Your the first to moan about other teams banging on about Injuries... Poor officials .. etc yet soon as it happens against your lot you won't shut up about it

Nobody talking about how villa stayed up on a Hawkeye failing. They should have one less point .. but I bet your lot will be banging on and on about this when it costs the title .. will be we should be back to back champs if not for Pickford..

Always the same.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Violent conduct covers a deliberate act. A punch, a kick, a head butt etc. Pickford's act was not a deliberate act of violence. His eyes are on the ball, his legs are spread as any keeper does when making himself big. It is a classic pose he is in. Unfortunately it is horribly mistimed and he is too close to VVD. It is dangerous play, it is reckless but I don't term it as violent conduct.
		
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Glad of your explanation between the two.

If Richarlison's would have been after a whistle had gone, would this have been the same then? I highly doubt it.


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## Kellfire (Oct 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			The fact there have been 7 other games this weekend which probably have a total of 1 page worth of postings 

The Derby itself was has just dragged on because of a missed red card 

Get over it 

Your the first to moan about other teams banging on about Injuries... Poor officials .. etc yet soon as it happens against your lot you won't shut up about it

Nobody talking about how villa stayed up on a Hawkeye failing. They should have one less point .. but I bet your lot will be banging on and on about this when it costs the title .. will be we should be back to back champs if not for Pickford..

Always the same.
		
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Why do you keep replying? Are you really so oblivious to your hypocrisy here?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If a player can be red carded after the final whistle has been blown, why can’t Pickford have been carded?
if an outfield player had done that they would have been red carded straight away regardless of where and when.
		
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One Brighton player did (Dunk I think) on Cahill and he was sent off for it.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Why do you keep replying? Are you really so oblivious to your hypocrisy here?
		
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He's still cryarsing over the Miller offside 18months ago.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			The fact there have been 7 other games this weekend which probably have a total of 1 page worth of postings

The Derby itself was ok has just dragged on because of a missed red card

Get over it

Your the first to moan about other teams banging on about Injuries... Poor officials .. etc yet soon as it happens against your lot you won't shut up about it

Nobody talking about how villa stayed up on a Hawkeye failing. They should have one less point .. but I bet your lot will be banging on and on about this when it costs the title .. will be we should be back to back champs if not for Pickford..

Always the same.
		
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Again as you appear to not be able to read 

If you don’t want to read what’s posted then move along and ignore it

It’s a very high profile event in an very big game that resulted in a big player being injured for the season -the media , pundits , radio , social media will still talk about it because of the impact it has had

I don’t know what this “first to moan” about other teams etc etc 

What does the Villa incident have to do with anything? It was discussed at the time it happened months ago 

“Your lot” “ always the same” - such a classy individual aren’t you 🙄


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again as you appear to not be able to read

If you don’t want to read what’s posted then move along and ignore it

It’s a very high profile event in an very big game that resulted in a big player being injured for the season -the media , pundits , radio , social media will still talk about it because of the impact it has had

I don’t know what this “first to moan” about other teams etc etc

What does the Villa incident have to do with anything? It was discussed at the time it happened months ago

“Your lot” “ always the same” - such a classy individual aren’t you 🙄
		
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And this forum which much nicer when you were on a ban 👍😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			And this forum which much nicer when you were on a ban 👍😂
		
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And continue to keep it personal -🙄


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And continue to keep it personal -🙄
		
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And yet who made it personal first eh? Grow up Phil

Don't give it if you can't take it


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Glad of your explanation between the two.

If Richarlison's would have been after a whistle had gone, would this have been the same then? I highly doubt it.
		
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You may not agree with the explanation, you may also have been sarcastic in your reply and I have not picked it up , but I'm comfortable it stands up.

On Richarlison, if the whistle had gone and he still followed through then you can make a case for violent conduct as the challenge would have been unnecessary. If we start doing what ifs though we can go around in circles. We can only go on the incidents that actually happened.


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 19, 2020)

Ok guys
Time to calm down and call time on the Pickford V VVD incident.

Thank you


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Ok guys
Time to calm down and call time on the Pickford V VVD incident.

Thank you
		
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Might as well close the whole forum down.


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## robinthehood (Oct 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Might as well close the whole forum down.
		
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you can always talk about wedge lofts and dress codes


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You may not agree with the explanation, you may also have been sarcastic in your reply and I have not picked it up , but I'm comfortable it stands up.

On Richarlison, if the whistle had gone and he still followed through then you can make a case for violent conduct as the challenge would have been unnecessary. If we start doing what ifs though we can go around in circles. We can only go on the incidents that actually happened.
		
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There was a ref on 5live a couple weeks ago about incidents happening after the whistle when they were discussing the penalty at Brighton 

His belief was that the whistle doesn’t stop any action that can happen which could result in a red card. 

But this whole thing has come about because of this dont but the flag up straight away - if the linesman had put his flag up straight away - whistle gone , Pickford would have stopped game carries on - because I believe the flag doesn’t go up until VVD goes for the ball then Pickford commits and the incident happens

I can understand why they want the flag to stay down then check after but something like this was going to happen


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## AmandaJR (Oct 19, 2020)

Please make it stop - enough now surely


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2020)

Moving the chat on, how big a leap can Calvert-Lewin do? The jump, hang time and then power. Phenomenal stuff from him right now.

Great to see some English strikers in him, Kane and Ings knocking them in regularly.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Moving the chat on, how big a leap can Calvert-Lewin do? The jump, hang time and then power. Phenomenal stuff from him right now.

Great to see some English strikers in him, Kane and Ings knocking them in regularly.
		
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If he who can't be named wasn't assaulted,  DCL gets nowhere near that ball 😉


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There was a ref on 5live a couple weeks ago about incidents happening after the whistle when they were discussing the penalty at Brighton

His belief was that the whistle doesn’t stop any action that can happen which could result in a red card.

But this whole thing has come about because of this dont but the flag up straight away - if the linesman had put his flag up straight away - whistle gone , Pickford would have stopped game carries on - because I believe the flag doesn’t go up until VVD goes for the ball then Pickford commits and the incident happens

I can understand why they want the flag to stay down then check after but something like this was going to happen
		
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While I agree generally that the late flag protocol is a ridiculous and potentially dangerous - in this case I don't think it would have changed things because both players would have still gone for the ball before checking whether the flag was up or not. Generally though you're right, there will potentially be other injuries like this due to flags not going up.


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Moving the chat on, how big a leap can Calvert-Lewin do? The jump, hang time and then power. Phenomenal stuff from him right now.

Great to see some English strikers in him, Kane and Ings knocking them in regularly.
		
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I never rated DCL before but he appears to have come on leaps and bounds this season. Credit to Ancelotti, and maybe a bit for Duncan Ferguson as well. Ings on the other hand I think always had the quality, but injuries stopped him getting a run in the team anywhere - finally had a good year and a half without injuries and he's showed what he can do.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There was a ref on 5live a couple weeks ago about incidents happening after the whistle when they were discussing the penalty at Brighton

His belief was that the whistle doesn’t stop any action that can happen which could result in a red card.

But this whole thing has come about because of this dont but the flag up straight away - if the linesman had put his flag up straight away - whistle gone , Pickford would have stopped game carries on - because I believe the flag doesn’t go up until VVD goes for the ball then Pickford commits and the incident happens

I can understand why they want the flag to stay down then check after but something like this was going to happen
		
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Thing is though that’s just one refs opinion.
There seems to be a big difference in opinion between different referees.
No wonder there is confusion in the game.
Keeping the flag down is just lazy officiating and letting the tech take over.
For really tight ones ( poss level ) fair enough ,but some are miles off.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Moving the chat on, how big a leap can Calvert-Lewin do? The jump, hang time and then power. Phenomenal stuff from him right now.

Great to see some English strikers in him, Kane and Ings knocking them in regularly.
		
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He is looking superb at the moment , that was his one chance and he took it , seems thats how he has been so far. Seems to be a pure finisher - which seems to suit the set up at Everton ,would have been a good battle with VVD but was very clever going onto Robbo who clearly isn’t going to out jump - interesting season ahead for him 

Man Utd looking for a new finisher 😉


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## BiMGuy (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So surgery for VVD - they haven’t said how bad the damage is but see a few say it’s not a full tear , so not 100% out for the season but either way it’s a huge loss.

Also it appears that the VAR ref didn’t think the two footed lunge was dangerous - no wonder he has been suspended from games before
		
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It was a strange attempt at a tackle. But it wasn't a two footed lunge. 

The hysteria following this game is rediculous. Liverpool fans have become the new ManU fans.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is looking superb at the moment , that was his one chance and he took it , seems thats how he has been so far. Seems to be a pure finisher - which seems to suit the set up at Everton ,would have been a good battle with VVD but was very clever going onto Robbo who clearly isn’t going to out jump - interesting season ahead for him

*Man Utd looking for a new finisher* 😉
		
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They would only ruin him . Not sure Man Utd would be that tempting for him right now and I'd like to think we have the money to keep him now. Ancelotti is building something, the owner has deep pockets. Saying all that, Utd have been desperate for a few years and if they come in and offer to triple his wages..........


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## BiMGuy (Oct 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If he who can't be named wasn't assaulted,  DCL gets nowhere near that ball 😉
		
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Not sure about that. VVD hasn't been great this season so far. Even Bamford made him look bang average.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I never rated DCL before but he appears to have come on leaps and bounds this season. Credit to Ancelotti, and maybe a bit for Duncan Ferguson as well. Ings on the other hand I think always had the quality, but injuries stopped him getting a run in the team anywhere - finally had a good year and a half without injuries and he's showed what he can do.
		
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A couple of years ago he played in a televised game and held the ball up beautifully all game. Everything stuck, he controlled the line. Couldn't hit a barn door though, his finishing let him down. It was the first time he had really stood out though, properly stood out. Since then he has led the line still and his scoring has improved bit by bit. Last year he had a great spell but then dried up post lockdown. This season he has had everything.

We musn't underestimate that prior to this season he was often isolated up top, no one running through to help, Richarlison at best. This year he has a much better midfield allowing Everton to move up top as a unit and he also has Rodriguez, our David Silva. He is putting balls through for him that are dreamy. Suddenly he is getting chances in the right areas. He is able to spend more time in the right areas and he is being fed properly. It has been great to watch him evolve.

We really do need to keep him wrapped in cotton wool, we don't have a back up.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 19, 2020)

I'm hoping something controversial happens in one of the games tonight that we can discuss


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They would only ruin him . Not sure Man Utd would be that tempting for him right now and I'd like to think we have the money to keep him now. Ancelotti is building something, the owner has deep pockets. Saying all that, Utd have been desperate for a few years and if they come in and offer to triple his wages..........
		
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That’s the key though - Man Utd will always be seen as the step up even when they aren’t winning or mid table etc - always seem to pick up the players.

Right now only their poor back room team would mess it up . 

If he keeps up the form then teams will look at him , maybe City as well - even more so if Everton don’t get CL football


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Not sure about that. VVD hasn't been great this season so far. *Even Bamford made him look bang average*.
		
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😂😂😂😂😂 I'll have 6 pints of what you're drinking


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## Kellfire (Oct 19, 2020)

I wouldn’t have said Bamford made VVD look average but it was a good old proper tussle at times. Even the best defenders get played at times and VVD is now a very well known quantity so he won’t have it all his own way as often. Doesn’t make him all of a sudden a bad player but we’ll see how he adapts. I do think, if there is one weakness in Liverpool, it’s that they can’t keep one CB along side VVD and he will suffer at times because of it.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A couple of years ago he played in a televised game and held the ball up beautifully all game. Everything stuck, he controlled the line. Couldn't hit a barn door though, his finishing let him down. It was the first time he had really stood out though, properly stood out. Since then he has led the line still and his scoring has improved bit by bit. Last year he had a great spell but then dried up post lockdown. This season he has had everything.

We musn't underestimate that prior to this season he was often isolated up top, no one running through to help, Richarlison at best. This year he has a much better midfield allowing Everton to move up top as a unit and he also has Rodriguez, our David Silva. He is putting balls through for him that are dreamy. Suddenly he is getting chances in the right areas. He is able to spend more time in the right areas and he is being fed properly. It has been great to watch him evolve.

We really do need to keep him wrapped in cotton wool, we don't have a back up.
		
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Yes I would say the difference is the service.
Quality balls that he dosnt have to chase down make a huge difference.
I thought Richarlison would be the main man this year but he’s not been


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2020)

Liverpool will struggle now without vvd but also because Allison is missing 

Adrian is an awful keeper. Average bottom level keeper but top level? Not got the concentration


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2020)

Carragher and Neville having fun on twitter


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2020)

If a prem league game ends 0-0, on pay per view, but with no one actually having bought the pay per view, did it even happen?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			If a prem league game ends 0-0, on pay per view, but with no one actually having bought the pay per view, did it even happen?
		
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Was there any sound?


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Was there any sound?
		
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id hope so for 14.95, not sure anyone can confirm though


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2020)

Transformation seems to be complete, Wolves wearing Portugal kit now lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			Transformation seems to be complete, Wolves wearing Portugal kit now lol
		
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Just turned on and wondered who was playing 😂😂

Good to see that the VAR Ref Coote has been rewarded with a game


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			id hope so for 14.95, not sure anyone can confirm though 

Click to expand...

£15 for a game i can understand it from a business sense, but what's annoyed me most is the stupid KO times for them games.

Every team has to be shown on sky 12x per season with  maximum of 28 games per team per season. Unless they're in Europe every PPV  game should all KO at 3pm on a Saturday.

I see Sky won't be releasing the figures of how many bought PPV games.....


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2020)

Jiminez was lucky to stay on the pitch there, Son was sent off for exactly the same thing last season.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Jiminez was lucky to stay on the pitch there, Son was sent off for exactly the same thing last season.
		
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Same team of Officials for the Leeds v Wolves that had the Derby on saturday, with Ref and VAR guy reversed, not a chance they were going to send someone off on a VAR decision tonight.😂😂


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## Bazzatron (Oct 19, 2020)

We had a green 3rd kit to make Raul feel at home last season, got to make sure the rest of the squad stay happy this time around.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			£15 for a game i can understand it from a business sense, but what's annoyed me most is the stupid KO times for them games.

Every team has to be shown on sky 12x per season with  maximum of 28 games per team per season. Unless they're in Europe every PPV  game should all KO at 3pm on a Saturday.

I see Sky won't be releasing the figures of how many bought PPV games.....
		
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Fair play to Newcastle fans.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54597058

£15 is a silly amount to pay anyway, Sky’s blockbuster films are £5.49 surely 90 minutes of football should be priced about the same?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Fair play to Newcastle fans.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54597058

£15 is a silly amount to pay anyway, Sky’s blockbuster films are £5.49 surely 90 minutes of football should be priced about the same?
		
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Sky haven't set the price, the PL clubs have. I think there's a bit of political  games going on between the PL, EFL and the Government.

Whilst £15 is a pisstake, I can fully understand its a business and there's extra costs for more games to be shown live etc

Let's be honest, the only fans that are really missing out are the ST holders/ones who usually go the match.

Theres been enough disruption to football, those PPV games should be  Saturday 3pm  where possible. Not 12:15 or7:15 on a Sunday am/pm.

Thankfully there's no real appetite for PPV games in English football.


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## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2020)

Imagine if you paid £15 for West Brom 0-0 Burnley last night. Hopefully the idea dies on its arse sooner rather than later.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Sky haven't set the price, the PL clubs have. I think there's a bit of political  games going on between the PL, EFL and the Government.

Whilst £15 is a pisstake, I can fully understand its a business and there's extra costs for more games to be shown live etc

Let's be honest, the only fans that are really missing out are the ST holders/ones who usually go the match.

Theres been enough disruption to football, those PPV games should be  Saturday 3pm  where possible. Not 12:15 or7:15 on a Sunday am/pm.

Thankfully there's no real appetite for PPV games in English football.
		
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Even by sky's own model £15 is too much. If their games are on  normal TV rights you can buy a game pass for £10 which does the whole day so almost always 2 games or something else aswell for less than this 

£5 per game and people would most likely pay to watch their team

The big games will be on anyways 

With these ones any season ticket holders should be entitled to watch the game for free as like you said they are missing out


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## HampshireHog (Oct 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Imagine if you paid £15 for West Brom 0-0 Burnley last night. Hopefully the idea dies on its arse sooner rather than later.
		
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I’d have paid £5 not to watch it 😂.  Can’t see it will operate in its current format long term although I can see future where you can have a TV/internet season ticket.


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## Beezerk (Oct 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Imagine if you paid £15 for West Brom 0-0 Burnley last night. Hopefully the idea dies on its arse sooner rather than later.
		
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It's completely stupid, no one in their right mind would pay £15 to watch a game on the TV, it's not even like you can invite your mates round to watch it over a few cans.
I'd love to see the viewing figures of these games.


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## Piece (Oct 20, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			It's completely stupid, no one in their right mind would pay £15 to watch a game on the TV, it's not even like you can invite your mates round to watch it over a few cans.
I'd love to see the viewing figures of these games.
		
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I'm stupid! I've paid £10 for each Watford game that's not shown on Sky/BT. I'm happy to pay it. Perhaps I'm  to pay that amount to watch crappy football!


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## Beezerk (Oct 20, 2020)

Piece said:



			I'm stupid! I've paid £10 for each Watford game that's not shown on Sky/BT. I'm happy to pay it. Perhaps I'm  to pay that amount to watch crappy football!
		
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£5 is borderline acceptable, £10 would make me want to vomit 🤮
Then again I'm coming from quite a bitter standpoint as my team isn't in the Prem, and probably won't be for quite some time 😆


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2020)

https://news.sky.com/story/top-engl...alks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

Liverpool and Man Utds American owners just not going to give up are they


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2020)

fundy said:



https://news.sky.com/story/top-engl...alks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

Liverpool and Man Utds American owners just not going to give up are they
		
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Just business.
But going to away games would now be better .
The wife would want to come though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2020)

fundy said:



https://news.sky.com/story/top-engl...alks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

Liverpool and Man Utds American owners just not going to give up are they
		
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It’s not really a surprise - the threat as always been there with UEFA constantly changing the CL to counter it - whoever provides the clubs with the most money will win out . Not sure what it would mean for either the Prem or the CL


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not really a surprise - the threat as always been there with UEFA constantly changing the CL to counter it - whoever provides the clubs with the most money will win out . Not sure what it would mean for either the Prem or the CL
		
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mean the end of football to a large extent for a lot of fans Id expect, good to see the Liverpool fans brush it off as inevitable


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## GB72 (Oct 20, 2020)

fundy said:



https://news.sky.com/story/top-engl...alks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

Liverpool and Man Utds American owners just not going to give up are they
		
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Not hugely shocked at FIFA putting together a plan that would severely diminish the influence of UEFA and the European leagues.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			mean the end of football to a large extent for a lot of fans Id expect, good to see the Liverpool fans brush it off as inevitable
		
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No one is brushing anything off - lost count the amount of times this has come to light starting back in 90 which is why they changed the European Cup and why it constantly changes. I certainly wouldn’t like to see it happen so I’m not sure what the “good to see Liverpool fans brush it off” nonsense is about - it’s not going to happen , we all know that


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## Junior (Oct 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			mean the end of football to a large extent for a lot of fans Id expect, good to see the Liverpool fans brush it off as inevitable
		
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Or the beginning????.  New grass roots teams will form and people will once again become interested.   £10 matchday tickets and supporters will be able to go and watch their local town team.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			mean the end of football to a large extent for a lot of fans Id expect, good to see the Liverpool fans brush it off as inevitable
		
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A Liverpool fan.

Its wrong, keep the national leagues as they are.

The fear creates the need - stand strong, everyone.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2020)

Junior said:



			Or the beginning????.  New grass roots teams will form and people will once again become interested.   £10 matchday tickets and supporters will be able to go and watch their local town team.
		
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Junior for PM!


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## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2020)

Junior said:



			Or the beginning????.  New grass roots teams will form and people will once again become interested.   £10 matchday tickets and supporters will be able to go and watch their local town team.
		
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Yes  junior, you're onto something here.

Only fans from the city of each club allowed. Keep Football local and ban any hangers on,ooters or glory Hunters.  You've gotta show your council tax bill for entry.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes  junior, you're onto something here.

Only fans from the city of each club allowed. Keep Football local and ban any hangers on,ooters or glory Hunters.  You've gotta show your council tax bill for entry.
		
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Does that include the players?
The manager and back room staff.
That would be interesting to see who’s best then!


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## Fade and Die (Oct 20, 2020)

fundy said:



https://news.sky.com/story/top-engl...alks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

Liverpool and Man Utds American owners just not going to give up are they
		
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Sounds utterly boring, closed shop league with no relegation, clearly promotion wouldn't apply should such an elite be formed, I feel sure interest in it, and therefore revenue streams, would soon dry up watching the same 2 or 3 clubs Winning the Superleague.....Games like Porto v Arsenal, would soon have no attraction when it became obvious it was merely a fixture to determine who finished 8th or 9th. In the PL in recent seasons the most interest in the final weeks has normally centred on the relegation battle has it not ? Take away that interest and you're left with very little.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Does that include the players?
The manager and back room staff.
That would be interesting to see who’s best then!
		
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Possibly. We could allow 2x jocks 2xIrish and a token welshman.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 20, 2020)

fundy said:



https://news.sky.com/story/top-engl...alks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

Liverpool and Man Utds American owners just not going to give up are they
		
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Let them go, the FA should then remove their registration, PL likewise, Players not eligible for England (other Nations to choose for themselves) revamp English football and crack on without them.

Good luck to them, but it’s all or nothing, not picking and choosing to suit themselves.


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## sunshine (Oct 20, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Well don't spout ignorant rubbish if you don't want to be corrected. I watch England every home game and a few aways and your comments are simply wrong.

Using your simple logic, I guess everyone was right to tarnish Liverpool fans with a bad rep for the minority in the 80's....(cue victim card being pulled) 

Click to expand...

The rubbish I hear spouted by England fans at Wembley is incredible.  Saying you attend all England matches is no indicator of having any knowledge of football!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Possibly. We could allow 2x jocks 2xIrish and a token welshman.
		
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That’s racist !
Surely have to have two Welsh as well.


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## 4LEX (Oct 20, 2020)

This is just bully boy tactics for future threats and leverage against the PL and FL.

It's time Man Utd fans really took action against Woodward and the Glazers. Bonfire night coming up lads......a few bad results could see a nice display in Woodwards front garden


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## 4LEX (Oct 20, 2020)

sunshine said:



			The rubbish I hear spouted by England fans at Wembley is incredible.  Saying you attend all England matches is no indicator of having any knowledge of football!
		
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Obviously in the cheap seats with the day trippers


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## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s racist !
Surely have to have two Welsh as well.

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Now now CC, its not racism its xenophobia😂😉


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes  junior, you're onto something here.

Only fans from the city of each club allowed. Keep Football local and ban any hangers on,ooters or glory Hunters.  You've gotta show your council tax bill for entry.
		
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Can I still support Col U even though I don't live there any more or do I have to swap to my new local team? Pretty sure that no one could accuse me of being a glory hunter if I stick with my original team.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 20, 2020)

Think the next five to ten years will see a massive shake up in world football. I wonder if there will be an African equivalent of the European model and the same in South America. Personally I think it stinks and I hope if this is a FIFA deal and UEFA aren't involved they'll find a way to stop it. I agree and think it's time the likes of the Glazers and others are forced out of the game. 

I can also see the bottom end of the football league changing and there will be more sides that follow the likes of Macclesfield and Bury and I wonder if we end up adding the National League into say League two and then splitting it into North and South as they did in the very old days


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## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can I still support Col U even though I don't live there any more or do I have to swap to my new local team? Pretty sure that no one could accuse me of being a glory hunter if I stick with my original team.
		
Click to expand...

No that's fine but if your grandads aunties milk man supported Man United  thats no reason for you to support them😉

I often wonder how football would be if local clubs were properly supported. Take Bury for example, the amount of United fans from Bury  would probably sell out Gigg Lane twice over.


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## adam6177 (Oct 20, 2020)

I was just reading an article about the most used phrases of 2020.... I was convinced that it would have been something Corona or covid based but it actually turns out that the number 1 phrase of 2020 is:

Penalty to Man utd.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No that's fine but if your grandads aunties milk man supported Man United  thats no reason for you to support them😉

I often wonder how football would be if local clubs were properly supported. Take Bury for example, the amount of United fans from Bury  would probably sell out Gigg Lane twice over.
		
Click to expand...

To support my application to continue to support the best team in Essex (that play in blue and white) I would like to enter the following image into evidence.....




And, much like Liverpool's performance against Aston Villa, the defence rests, your honour.


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## Slime (Oct 20, 2020)

My mum's from Lancashire, does that count?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2020)

Slime said:



			My mum's from Lancashire, does that count?
		
Click to expand...

Only if you want to support Blackburn, Burnley, Preston or similar. Sadly for you the boundaries have changed since your mum was a lass and Man Utd are not in Lancashire any more.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Only if you want to support Blackburn, Burnley, Preston or similar. Sadly for you the boundaries have changed since your mum was a lass and Man Utd are not in Lancashire any more.
		
Click to expand...

According to City fans their not in Manchester either.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			According to City fans their not in Manchester either.
		
Click to expand...

Cheeky chaps 😁. I bet they enjoy that.


----------



## Fade and Die (Oct 20, 2020)

I’m from Millwall!😩

luckily Millwall buggered off years before I was born 😆⚒


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## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			To support my application to continue to support the best team in Essex (that play in blue and white) I would like to enter the following image into evidence.....

View attachment 33004


And, much like Liverpool's performance against Aston Villa, the defence rests, your honour. 

Click to expand...

Dear ColchesterFC 

I have considered your application and can confirm you have been approved to continue your support of ColchesterFC despite not living in the catchment area. 

Regards

Stu_c


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## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2020)

Slime said:



			My mum's from Lancashire, does that count?
		
Click to expand...

Unless you were born there and/or grew up there between birth and 16yrs old unfortunately not.


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## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2020)

I support Spurs only because my dad does. Surely family is as good a reason as where you were born to support a team.


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## Slime (Oct 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Only if you want to support Blackburn, Burnley, Preston or similar. Sadly for you the boundaries have changed since your mum was a lass and Man Utd are not in Lancashire any more.
		
Click to expand...

Ah, but I chose them when I was six, that'd be in 1964.


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## Slime (Oct 20, 2020)

What a complete performance tonight, especially at the back.
Tuanzebe and Wan Bissaka were just immense.
Oh, and Ole got his tactics absolutely bob on.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I support Spurs only because my dad does. Surely family is as good a reason as where you were born to support a team.
		
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Unfortunately come the revolution this won't be acceptable 😉

My brothers mate left Liverpool to go to London in the 80's and ended up settling down there and having a family. He wouldn't allow his kids to support Liverpool, they had to choose from their local clubs and ended up with Spurs.


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## Slime (Oct 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Unfortunately come the revolution this won't be acceptable 😉

My brothers mate left Liverpool to go to London in the 80's and ended up settling down there and having a family. *He wouldn't allow his kids to support Liverpool*, they had to choose from their local clubs and ended up with Spurs.
		
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That's just responsible parenting.


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## USER1999 (Oct 20, 2020)

Slime said:



			That's just responsible parenting.  

Click to expand...

It was, til they ended up with Spurs. Then it became child abuse.


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## Fish (Oct 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Unfortunately come the revolution this won't be acceptable 😉

My brothers mate left Liverpool to go to London in the 80's and ended up settling down there and having a family. He wouldn't allow his kids to support Liverpool, they had to choose from their local clubs and ended up with Spurs.
		
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Poor kids 😢


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 21, 2020)

Slime said:



			Ah, but I chose them when I was six, that'd be in 1964.
		
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I do like a technicality 😁. Your application can go into the appeals pile. If Stu if judging you could still be in trouble though 😆.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Unfortunately come the revolution this won't be acceptable 😉

My brothers mate left Liverpool to go to London in the 80's and ended up settling down there and having a family. He wouldn't allow his kids to support Liverpool, they had to choose from their local clubs and ended up with Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

And you see that as a good thing?

Who would your kid support if you moved to Manchestoh?


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## Junior (Oct 21, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			And you see that as a good thing?

Who would your kid support if you moved to Manchestoh?
		
Click to expand...

Altrincham ?  Stretford Victoria ?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2020)

Junior said:



			Altrincham ?
		
Click to expand...

A team for refs.


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2020)

Real Madrid 3-0 down to Shaktar Donetsk (reserves) before half time lol. 

Zidane be lucky to still be in charge for the 2nd half


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Real Madrid 3-0 down to Shaktar Donetsk (reserves) before half time lol.

Zidane be lucky to still be in charge for the 2nd half
		
Click to expand...

Managed to claw a couple back but open on the counter


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## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			And you see that as a good thing?

Who would your kid support if you moved to Manchestoh?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah. It gets rid of that I support xxxx because my grandad did etc

Seeing as he's been to a good few games home/away/Europe then he's able to carry on supporting us. 

If he was born in Manchester he'd have to support his local team.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2020)

Fabinho 2nd best CB in the world already.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah. It gets rid of that I support xxxx because my grandad did etc

Seeing as he's been to a good few games home/away/Europe then he's able to carry on supporting us.

If he was born in Manchester he'd have to support his local team.
		
Click to expand...

So if your grandad supports the reds, your dad supports the reds and you move to Wycombe, start supporting them just because of a geographical anomaly even though you have no link with them. 

Your dad picked it because he moved for work in the local factory?

Rubbish.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So if your grandad supports the reds, your dad supports the reds and you move to Wycombe, start supporting them just because of a geographical anomaly even though you have no link with them.

Your dad picked it because he moved for work in the local factory?

Rubbish.
		
Click to expand...

If I'm born here and move then no. If I'm born there then yes.

Its not rubbish, its about supporting your local team.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If I'm born here and move then no. If I'm born there then yes.

Its not rubbish, its about supporting your local team.
		
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We're lucky we were born in a city that has a world class team, and I do believe that you should support your local team, if your family has roots there, but if you have no roots there, support your arl fellas team.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			We're lucky we were born in a city that has a world class team, and I do believe that you should support your local team, if your family has roots there, *but if you have no roots there, support your arl fellas team*.
		
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Nah, support your local team, it's that simple.


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## fundy (Oct 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah, support your local team, it's that simple.
		
Click to expand...


Born in Enfield, grew up in Hertfordshire, university in Leiocestershire, moved from there to Oxfordshire, to Manchester, back to Oxfordshire, to Milton Keynes, and then to Dorset.

Who do I support please?

And does this change if/when I next move?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Born in Enfield, grew up in Hertfordshire, university in Leiocestershire, moved from there to Oxfordshire, to Manchester, back to Oxfordshire, to Milton Keynes, and then to Dorset.

Who do I support please?

And does this change if/when I next move?
		
Click to expand...

Enfield, no?


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## fundy (Oct 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Enfield, no?
		
Click to expand...

Correct, no


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah, support your local team, it's that simple.
		
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No it isnt.


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## Beezerk (Oct 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Born in Enfield, grew up in Hertfordshire, university in Leiocestershire, moved from there to Oxfordshire, to Manchester, back to Oxfordshire, to Milton Keynes, and then to Dorset.

Who do I support please?

And does this change if/when I next move?
		
Click to expand...

Man Utd obviously 😅


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## Fish (Oct 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Born in Enfield, grew up in Hertfordshire, university in Leiocestershire, moved from there to Oxfordshire, to Manchester, back to Oxfordshire, to Milton Keynes, and then to Dorset.

Who do I support please?

And does this change if/when I next move?
		
Click to expand...

Similar, born in Greenwich, lived in many foster homes around London, longest in West Hampstead, eventually adopted and moved to Coventry, don’t have any ‘roots/blood parents’ per se, or know where they originated, probably the Scrubbs 😜, so the closest to my birth town would have been Charlton, Arsenal (when Woolwich), Millwall if staying south of the water, West Ham if crossing over it, but the ‘fashionable’ club when I was growing up and was being punted about was Chelsea, and in the playground I always baggsied Charlie Cooke 💙


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## Imurg (Oct 22, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So if your grandad supports the reds, your dad supports the reds and you move to Wycombe, start supporting them just because of a geographical anomaly even though you have no link with them.

Your dad picked it because he moved for work in the local factory?

Rubbish.
		
Click to expand...

I'd take the Chairboys over Liverpool every day..even if we are P6 L6


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## Junior (Oct 22, 2020)

Slime said:



			What a complete performance tonight, especially at the back.
Tuanzebe and Wan Bissaka were just immense.
Oh, and Ole got his tactics absolutely bob on.
		
Click to expand...

We look so much better defensively without Maguire.  



Stuart_C said:



			Fabinho 2nd best CB in the world already.
		
Click to expand...

2nd to Tuanzebe ???


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## Stuart_C (Oct 22, 2020)

Junior said:



			We look so much better defensively without Maguire. 



2nd to Tuanzebe ???
		
Click to expand...

Maguire, obviously. 😂


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 22, 2020)

Imurg said:



			I'd take the Chairboys over Liverpool every day..even if we are P6 L6

Click to expand...

See Stuey, how can you pick a side that is called after a piece of furniture?

With that record they seem more like choirboys - get stuck in!!!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Born in Enfield, grew up in Hertfordshire, university in Leiocestershire, moved from there to Oxfordshire, to Manchester, back to Oxfordshire, to Milton Keynes, and then to Dorset.

Who do I support please?

And does this change if/when I next move?
		
Click to expand...

For starters you can't change. Once the sorting hat has picked your team that's the end of it. Your hat chooses when you are young, where you move afterwards is irrelevant. You can go and watch a different,  local, team and you can look for their result but switch allegiance 😱😱


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## GreiginFife (Oct 22, 2020)

So what if I was born and raised in West Philadelphia and all I wanted to do was shoot some BBall but due to some outside influence, say a couple of guys being up to no good, my moms packed me off to the other side of the coutry, Bel Air for example...

Who would I support then?


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## Slime (Oct 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah, support your local team, it's that simple.
		
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Nah, support who you want ................................ just don't ever change.
Most supporters choose a team when they're really, really young, geographical ties mean nothing to them at that age.
If their parents have no affinity to a particular side they can choose who they want and shouldn't be made to feel bad about it.
Easy to say otherwise when you're born in a city with two big teams in it.
As a six/seven year old you just pick a team you've heard of with your favourite player in.
My favourite player was Denis Law.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 22, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			So what if I was born and raised in West Philadelphia and all I wanted to do was shoot some BBall but due to some outside influence, say a couple of guys being up to no good, my moms packed me off to the other side of the coutry, Bel Air for example...

Who would I support then?
		
Click to expand...

Lakers because that's who uncle phil gets the tickets for


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 22, 2020)

Interesting 🤔 

So I was born in Chester , then went to Belfast then Birkenhead then Malta onto Bristol , Aberdeen , Bristol , Hampshire , Cyprus , Oxford , Cyprus , Telford , Oxford and finally Leighton Buzzard 


Would have bought a lot of shirts


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Born in Enfield, grew up in Hertfordshire, university in Leiocestershire, moved from there to Oxfordshire, to Manchester, back to Oxfordshire, to Milton Keynes, and then to Dorset.

Who do I support please?

And does this change if/when I next move?
		
Click to expand...

Barcelona be my guess.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			For starters you can't change. Once the sorting hat has picked your team that's the end of it. Your hat chooses when you are young, where you move afterwards is irrelevant. You can go and watch a different,  local, team and you can look for their result but switch allegiance 😱😱
		
Click to expand...

My dad stayed in Wales for the end of the war.
The farmer was a Wrexham fan and dad always looked for their results Saturday before Everton.
You should support your local team but there is room for nostalgia from your childhood.


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## Beezerk (Oct 22, 2020)

There's a bloke on our street who is a Sunderland fan, not sure why as he's not a Maccem. Anyway, he's forced his son to also support Sunderland despite him living in deepest darkest Toon country all his life.
Poor bairn 😂


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 22, 2020)

BTW there is a difference between local team / mum or dad's influence and outright glory hunters.

Last tier of dante's hell for them.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			BTW there is a difference between local team / mum or dad's influence and outright glory hunters.

Last tier of dante's hell for them.

Click to expand...

Can I support Prescot Cables if I live in Huyton.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can I support Prescot Cables if I live in Huyton.

Click to expand...

COLFC if your a glory hunter.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting 🤔

So I was born in Chester , then went to Belfast then Birkenhead then Malta onto Bristol , Aberdeen , Bristol , Hampshire , Cyprus , Oxford , Cyprus , Telford , Oxford and finally Leighton Buzzard


Would have bought a lot of shirts
		
Click to expand...

How can you call yourself Liverpool Phil when you've never lived here?🤦

Mods, can we arrange a name change ASAP 😉


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## Stuart_C (Oct 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can I support Prescot Cables if I live in Huyton.

Click to expand...

What colour is your wheelie bin?


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			How the feck can you call yourself Liverpool Phil when you've never lived here?🤦

Mods, can we arrange a name change ASAP 😉
		
Click to expand...


Are we sure his names even Phil?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Are we sure his names even Phil? 

Click to expand...

Yeah definitely. All the Phil's I know are complete two hats😄😄


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## USER1999 (Oct 22, 2020)

What a load of tosh from Luiz, and Leno. Not keen on always playing out from the back. Very predictable.


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## USER1999 (Oct 22, 2020)

Looking at this, we sold the wrong keeper.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What colour is your wheelie bin?
		
Click to expand...

Maroon waste.
Grey recycle.
I dread to ask.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2020)

Slime said:



			Nah, support who you want ................................ just don't ever change.
Most supporters choose a team when they're really, really young, geographical ties mean nothing to them at that age.
If their parents have no affinity to a particular side they can choose who they want and shouldn't be made to feel bad about it.
Easy to say otherwise when you're born in a city with two big teams in it.
As a six/seven year old you just pick a team you've heard of with your favourite player in.
My favourite player was Denis Law.
		
Click to expand...

Didn’t he play for City.


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Looking at this, we sold the wrong keeper.
		
Click to expand...

think we kept the better keeper, just asking yet another player to focus on the parts of his game that hes not as strong on

(hope thats why were playing as we are and setting up with square pegs in round holes a lot at least)


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2020)

Much better that


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## Stuart_C (Oct 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maroon waste.
Grey recycle.
I dread to ask.

Click to expand...

Then you can follow cables.

My mate is in the cables Hall Of Fame.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Then you can follow cables.

My mate is in the cables Hall Of Fame.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks Stu.
Went a few times last year .
Some very good players.
Long time since I could hear what the players were shouting, but that’s the norm now even in the CL
Who is he?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thanks Stu.
Went a few times last year .
Some very good players.
Long time since I could hear what the players were shouting, but that’s the norm now even in the CL
Who is he?
		
Click to expand...

Floody. Proper old school centre half.


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## USER1999 (Oct 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Much better that 

Click to expand...

Turned off at 69 minutes to go and cook dinner. Flipping typical. Nice to win, but I sat through 69 minutes of garbage.

Partey looks good, as does Gabriel.


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## Slime (Oct 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Didn’t he play for City.
		
Click to expand...

Eventually.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Floody. Proper old school centre half.
		
Click to expand...

Dan ?
I wish I could say I was a similar type CH .


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## Stuart_C (Oct 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Dan ?
I wish I could say I was a similar type CH .
		
Click to expand...

No Andy. Danny is his lad, he's a really talented footballer.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maroon waste.
Grey recycle.
I dread to ask.

Click to expand...

Yer bad wool.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yer bad wool. 

Click to expand...

I was born on Scotland Road .
My mum and dad made me move to Huyton when I was six.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I was born on Scotland Road .
My mum and dad made me move to Huyton when I was six.

Click to expand...

Good job they didnt make you support the blues, as geographically closer?


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## Jensen (Oct 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			Born in Enfield, grew up in Hertfordshire, 

Who do I support please?

And does this change if/when I next move?
		
Click to expand...

You’ve definitely got Lillywhite DNA.
Soon to get a Tottenham season ticket  when fans return 👍


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## fundy (Oct 23, 2020)

Jensen said:



*You’ve definitely got Lillywhite DNA.*
Soon to get a Tottenham season ticket  when fans return 👍
		
Click to expand...

More than you would know lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My dad worked for several spurs managers/players over the years (having gone to school with a couple of them) and several were considered family friends (Nicholson, Perryman, Pratt). As a child I had an invite to the Spurs players lounge several times a year with the family and was at school with some of the players  kids.

Oh yeah, Im the black sheep of the family who at the age of 5 when taken to his first game declared Im supporting the ones in red as they ran riot  Cant say Ive ever regretted the decision either haha


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 23, 2020)

Born in Morden, so nearest league club was Wimbledon (at Plough Lane) but had already been to Craven Cottage before Wimbledon had even got their league status. Went to Wimbledon one week and got the 93 bus to Putney the next to see Fulham. Mum made me choose and liked the bus ride more so went for Fulham. Still went to Wembley to see them beat Liverpool (and get out of my face in the town that night) and my late dad remained a big Dons fan until he died


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## Rlburnside (Oct 23, 2020)

I will be in trouble come the revolution, born 20 minutes from the Valley, as a kid used to skip train to Charlton older brother pushed me under turnstiles when he could get away with it, but never felt any real connection with the club. 

 We were really Spurs supporters just couldn’t afford to go there until a bit older, first game I saw at White Heart Lane when Greaves played was like a dream as a young lad. 

Over the years it went from going to Charlton most times with no money to driving to Spurs getting concierge to park car at the club within the ground and having a few pints before and after the game.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 23, 2020)

I’m guessing we don’t have any Villa or Leeds fans on the forum, what a cracking result that is given the way Villa have started!


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## pauljames87 (Oct 24, 2020)

What the hell is going on


----------



## Pathetic Shark (Oct 24, 2020)

I was a local football fan - followed Leatherhead for years through all their cup runs in the 70s.  Mid-80s, most of the players and officials moved down to Dorking and I got paid to do the same so had five years with them.  Then got bored with soccer and have seen four games in 30 years since then, one of which was a Cup final and one was in March this year.

Should really be a Tottenham fan as my real father was leading scorer in the reserves in 1960/61 and scored for England Schoolboys at Wembley against the Scots.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 24, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			What the hell is going on
		
Click to expand...

Draw is a fantastic result 

We carry on

The media highlighted "issues" in the camp when noble spoke out about a player being sold and then highlighted a tough run of fixtures after Newcastle until Liverpool away 

Well we have lost only 1 of those tough 6 (so far)

8 points from the 5 so far .. not bad at all 

Solid base to build on


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## chrisd (Oct 24, 2020)

Born in Croydon, went to Selhurst Park at about 6 years old when my school team was in a schools final. Saw my first game v Leeds in 1965 when I got a ticket for my 13th birthday, and went to senior school in South Norwood about a quarter of a mile from the ground. Saw them when they were the "team of the 70's, 80's and 90's and have been many times since.Always liked the fact that I supported my home team and not one that won the league the first year I got into football 🤔


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 24, 2020)

I think the majority of fans in their 60's and 70's will be supporters of either their local team or their father's team as there was no televised football aside from the Cup Final and the occasional international. 

No opportunity for the glory hunters.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 24, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I think the majority of fans in their 60's and 70's will be supporters of either their local team or their father's team as there was no televised football aside from the Cup Final and the occasional international.

No opportunity for the glory hunters.
		
Click to expand...

Most never had a telly anyway.


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## chrisd (Oct 24, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Most never had a telly anyway.
		
Click to expand...

Most had a TV in the 70's but probably just black and white as was ours when I married in 75


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 24, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Most had a TV in the 70's but probably just black and white as was ours when I married in 75
		
Click to expand...

Not in the 60s though.
We were the only one in our road who had one.
The World Cup final In 66 ,our house was rammed big party afterwards.
Happy days.


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## chrisd (Oct 24, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not in the 60s though.
We were the only one in our road who had one.
The World Cup final In 66 ,our house was rammed big party afterwards.
Happy days.
		
Click to expand...

We had one in 66 I remember getting home from a holiday at half time in normal time and watching the rest of the match


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 24, 2020)

chrisd said:



			We had one in 66 I remember getting home from a holiday at half time in normal time and watching the rest of the match
		
Click to expand...

Radio Rentals I think.
About a 18” screen.
Imagine that now.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 24, 2020)

chrisd said:



			We had one in 66 I remember getting home from a holiday at half time in normal time and watching the rest of the match
		
Click to expand...

But by 1966 I was 17 and my team had long been decided.

I was referring to fans in their sixties and seventies, not the decades.

We had a TV, only two channels and black and white, rented from Radio Rentals.

Had to smile recently when some Billy Bull S****** was telling people at the golf club how he watched the '66 Final on his family's colour TV.

It was only a black and white broadcast!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2020)

How on earth is that not a foul by Maguire ?! And a penalty for Chelsea


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How on earth is that not a foul by Maguire ?! And a penalty for Chelsea
		
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only a pen at the other end that lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1320052495184519169


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## USER1999 (Oct 24, 2020)

Is the Utd player not supporting the poor Chelsea player from falling over in that photo?


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## adam6177 (Oct 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How on earth is that not a foul by Maguire ?! And a penalty for Chelsea
		
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VAR and referees can only spot offsides the thickness of a sleeve. They cannot be expected to see assault incidents.... 2 in 2 weeks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2020)

fundy said:



			only a pen at the other end that lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1320052495184519169

Click to expand...

Very true - would be a guaranteed penalty then

Have to say but it’s a game really lacking in any quality


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## PieMan (Oct 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How on earth is that not a foul by Maguire ?! And a penalty for Chelsea
		
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Should've been a pen for Maguire as Azpi clearly shouldn't have been that close to him.


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## chrisd (Oct 24, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Had to smile recently when some Billy Bull S****** was telling people at the golf club how he watched the '66 Final on his family's colour TV.

It was only a black and white broadcast!
		
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It was definitely in black and white !
In about 1983 I bought a TV and video recorder and it cost £1,000 up till then it was Rediffusion rental


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## BiMGuy (Oct 24, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I’m guessing we don’t have any Villa or Leeds fans on the forum, what a cracking result that is given the way Villa have started!
		
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*Leeds fan here. Particularly enjoyed the result yesterday as I work with a few Villa fans. And they have delusions of grandeur. 
My boss is a hardcore Villa fan and was recently telling me Bielsa/Leeds were overrated and would do a Fulham. And also how crap Bamford was. *


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



*Leeds fan here. Particularly enjoyed the result yesterday as I work with a few Villa fans. And they have delusions of grandeur. 
My boss is a hardcore Villa fan and was recently telling me Bielsa/Leeds were overrated and would do a Fulham. And also how crap Bamford was. *

Click to expand...


A Leeds fan claiming others have delusions of grandeur  I like it


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2020)

The aftermatch battle with Evra and Hasselbaink is more exciting than the actual match


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## richart (Oct 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The aftermatch battle with Evra and Hasselbaink is more exciting than the actual match
		
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Had to turn them off as they were putting me off looking at the Championship league table.


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## richart (Oct 24, 2020)

chrisd said:



			It was definitely in black and white !
In about 1983 I bought a TV and video recorder and it cost £1,000 up till then it was Rediffusion rental
		
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It was in black and white, first game I can remember watching. There is a colour version around though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 24, 2020)

richart said:



			It was in black and white, first game I can remember watching. There is a colour version around though.
		
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It was recorded in colour for the tournament official film which was released in Cinemas, the first sport broadcast in colour on TV in UK was Wimbledon in the late 60’s I believe.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 24, 2020)

fundy said:



			A Leeds fan claiming others have delusions of grandeur  I like it 

Click to expand...

Yes, I enjoyed that little nugget!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2020)

Is VAR refs having a laugh ?!?

Not even a foul but upgraded to a penalty 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## hairball_89 (Oct 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is VAR refs having a laugh ?!?

Not even a foul but upgraded to a penalty 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Was on the line though. Def got the ball but we know refs back up their mates and don't go against them! The moment ref gives a foul and you see a VAR check, it's going to be a pen.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is VAR refs having a laugh ?!?

Not even a foul but upgraded to a penalty 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
		
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They are unaccountable though.
I would love to hear the VAR refs account of the McGuire penalty incident.


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## Fish (Oct 25, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			They are unaccountable though.
I would love to hear the VAR refs account of the McGuire penalty incident.
		
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No VAR decision for that I heard in the commentary, but apparently there was for some other potential fouls, like the dive a little later, how on earth can you only have VAR in use in parts of the match, it should be all or nothing!!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 25, 2020)

Fish said:



			No VAR decision for that I heard in the commentary, but apparently there was for some other potential fouls, like the dive a little later, how on earth can you only have VAR in use in parts of the match, it should be all or nothing!!
		
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I thought VAR was in play for penalty incidents that the ref misses.
It was for the Liverpool one.
Just a joke .
Big toy given to a load of muppets, but think the real muppets might do a better job.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 25, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Was on the line though. Def got the ball but we know refs back up their mates and don't go against them! The moment ref gives a foul and you see a VAR check, it's going to be a pen.
		
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They don’t have to go against them though.
All they have to do is ask him to have a look on the monitor.
He can then make his own mind up.
In the McGuire one the ref had a poor viewing angle , if he had gone to look I think he would have changed his mind.


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## Kellfire (Oct 25, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			They don’t have to go against them though.
All they have to do is ask him to have a look on the monitor.
He can then make his own mind up.
In the McGuire one the ref had a poor viewing angle , if he had gone to look I think he would have changed his mind.
		
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Maguire.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 25, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Maguire.
		
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You got nothing better to do ...mod edit


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is VAR refs having a laugh ?!?

Not even a foul but upgraded to a penalty 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

A terrible clearance but a great tackle imo.

You've only got to see the change in direction of the ball that proves he's won the ball. 

No problem with the foul being upgraded to a pen because it was on the line, not having it as a foul though.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2020)

That Maguire one though was an absolute embarrassment. 

Until we improve the standard of referees,  nothing will change.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			A terrible clearance but a great tackle imo.

You've only got to see the change in direction of the ball that proves he's won the ball.

No problem with the foul being upgraded to a pen because it was on the line, not having it as a foul though.
		
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Unnessesary challenge imo he has his back to goal.
Having said that he gets the ball outside the box ,then the striker falls over his legs on the ground.
How they see that as a Foul/pen is beyond me.
But Fab gave him the decision to make just stay on your feet , most sliding tackles now get penalised if you make any sort of contact.
VAR total mess.


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## AmandaJR (Oct 25, 2020)

VAR's killing the game for me. Too many that are wrong is one thing but at least in the past we might forgive the error as it was in real time with just one look from the ref and lino. Now the frustration of the error is compounded hugely...never mind the delay in the game. Pile of poop.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			VAR's killing the game for me. Too many that are wrong is one thing but *at least in the past we might forgive the error as it was in real time with just one look from the ref and lino.* Now the frustration of the error is compounded hugely...never mind the delay in the game. Pile of poop.
		
Click to expand...

Not just for you, I'd say the majority now. 

Majority of people never, those were the ones who were screaming for VAR, now they've got it, they don't want it.

Sky and the media have caused this issue by over analysing, dissecting and forensically analysing anything and everything. 

If this carries on, I don't  know if I'll ever go back to watching football live.


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## Kellfire (Oct 25, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			You got nothing better to do ...Mod Edit
		
Click to expand...

It’s just because you do it every time, so it’s not a typo. Don’t have a fit.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 25, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			It’s just because you do it every time, so it’s not a typo. Don’t have a fit.
		
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Try posting something useful Or interesting for a change.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Not just for you, I'd say the majority now.

Majority of people never, those were the ones who were screaming for VAR, now they've got it, they don't want it.

Sky and the media have caused this issue by over analysing, dissecting and forensically analysing anything and everything.

If this carries on, I don't  know if I'll ever go back to watching football live.
		
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I agree Sky do overdo the analysing.
But its the poor reffing That’s the main problem.
I was for VAR but it’s the way they use it Or don’t use it ( monitors)that’s the problem.
You can be the width of a shirt offside but they can’t see a headlock.


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 25, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			They don’t have to go against them though.
All they have to do is ask him to have a look on the monitor.
He can then make his own mind up.
In the McGuire one the ref had a poor viewing angle , if he had gone to look I think he would have changed his mind.
		
Click to expand...




Kellfire said:



			Maguire.
		
Click to expand...




clubchamp98 said:



			You got nothing better to do ....mod edit.
		
Click to expand...





Clubchamp /Kellfire

Stop it the both of you 🙄


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## AmandaJR (Oct 25, 2020)

Am I missing something this season with the kit selection. Team in Red vs Team in Blue...nope that needs one of them to play in pastel green or pink or lemon or something else!


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## fundy (Oct 25, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Am I missing something this season with the kit selection. Team in Red vs Team in Blue...nope that needs one of them to play in pastel green or pink or lemon or something else!
		
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thats sea foam and charcoal to you


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2020)

Great goal from Ward-Prowse.

On a separate note double barrelled surnames do my head in.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 25, 2020)

Great start by Southampton.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Great goal from Ward-Prowse.

On a separate note double barrelled surnames do my head in.
		
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Yes to both points.  The latter point with knobs on 👍


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## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Am I missing something this season with the kit selection. Team in Red vs Team in Blue...nope that needs one of them to play in pastel green or pink or lemon or something else!
		
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It's so the clubs can justify selling second and third kits to fans. They have to wear each one for a certain number of games. I mean, I don't know if there's a rule on that or whether they just feel they need to in order to sell them, but along those lines anyway.

Remember when Watford were in the league, they wore their away kit most weeks even though practically no one else wears yellow.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 25, 2020)

Blow the whistle ref. I'd take 2-0 and 10 men left at this point. It could easily get worse here.

Southampton have done a number on us today, no complaints.


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## Fish (Oct 25, 2020)

Everton made to look very average today, Southampton have played very well, picked Everton’s pockets too easily at times, is it ‘normal service has been resumed’?


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## Papas1982 (Oct 25, 2020)

I think it’s just about safe to comment now.....

Have been impressed by the boys today. Overplayed in the middle a little at time and would still drive Redmond to any ground in the country if a club came in for him, but very happy with a well controlled performance.

Extra pleasing with it being the anniversary of 0-9 (cheers For the reminder Sky)!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 25, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think it’s just about safe to comment now.....

Have been impressed by the boys today. Overplayed in the middle a little at time and would still drive Redmond to any ground in the country if a club came in for him, but very happy with a well controlled performance.

Extra pleasing with it being the anniversary of 0-9 (cheers For the reminder Sky)!
		
Click to expand...

Your boys have been clinical up front, well drilled elsewhere. They are a good team, no question.


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## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2020)

Another unexpected result really. I'm glad I'm not a betting man when it comes to football these days, everyone who does accumulators must be tearing them up every week. Everyone beating everyone in this league.


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## adam6177 (Oct 25, 2020)

Just seen the digne red card..... And it's got me thinking.

After copious amounts of moans about VAR decisions being made badly, would it not make sense to have ex players in positions of decision making? The people they have in charge now clearly are not fit for purpose.


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## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Just seen the digne red card..... And it's got me thinking.

After copious amounts of moans about VAR decisions being made badly, would it not make sense to have ex players in positions of decision making? The people they have in charge now clearly are not fit for purpose.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah that was not a red card at all. He didn't even dive in he was just running and stood on him accidentally. Every bit of contact with a stud doesn't have to be a red. Agree with Jamie Redknapp, yellow at worst.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah that was not a red card at all. He didn't even dive in he was just running and stood on him accidentally. Every bit of contact with a stud doesn't have to be a red. Agree with Jamie Redknapp, yellow at worst.
		
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I think it could go either way tbh. He may not of meant to stamp on him as he did, but he had every intention to foul him. He had two goes at it. The old hands raised in the air as the legs connect is always a give away.


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## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think it could go either way tbh. He may not of meant to stamp on him as he did, but he had every intention to foul him. He had two goes at it. The old hands raised in the air as the legs connect is always a give away.
		
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He might have been thinking it but he made no motion to foul him in that incident, he was just running to catch him up. He was very unlucky. Be honest, if that was a yellow would you have been screaming for a red? Probably not.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 25, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think it’s just about safe to comment now.....

Have been impressed by the boys today. Overplayed in the middle a little at time and would still drive Redmond to any ground in the country if a club came in for him, but very happy with a well controlled performance.

Extra pleasing with it being the anniversary of 0-9 (cheers For the reminder Sky)!
		
Click to expand...

They gave him MOTM thought it was Romeu myself
Very impressed with the two CBs
Everton just didn’t look right ,hard to see why.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He might have been thinking it but he made no motion to foul him in that incident, he was just running to catch him up. He was very unlucky. Be honest, if that was a yellow would you have been screaming for a red? Probably not.
		
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I said I can see both sides of it. So no, I’d not have screamed for a red, but if you consider the effect of the foul and the intent. He could have caused serious injury and he did intend to foul him imo. Not like he did, but if he’d backed off then the incident wouldn’t have occurred. 

So whilst I didn’t think it was a red, I didn’t for a second think it would be overruled once I saw the replay.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 25, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			They gave him MOTM thought it was Romeu myself
Very impressed with the two CBs
Everton just didn’t look right ,hard to see why.
		
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Me and my mates chuckled about that. He just has no end product. Does 4/5 good things a season and people rave about him. I’d have Shane long in the team ahead of him.....


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## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I said I can see both sides of it. So no, I’d not have screamed for a red, but if you consider the effect of the foul and the intent. He could have caused serious injury and he did intend to foul him imo. Not like he did, but if he’d backed off then the incident wouldn’t have occurred.

So whilst I didn’t think it was a red, I didn’t for a second think it would be overruled once I saw the replay.
		
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I don't think there _was_ intent, but as they said in the studio intent isn't in the law now anyway. I actually thought when I saw the replay it had a reasonable chance of being overturned. As you touched upon though, him having the nibble with the first trip a second before has made it look much worse and that's what's done for him I think.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2020)

I thought it was a harsh red card but can see why it wouldn’t be overturned. Guess it’s all evened out after getting away with one last week.


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## HampshireHog (Oct 25, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Just seen the digne red card..... And it's got me thinking.

After copious amounts of moans about VAR decisions being made badly, would it not make sense to have ex players in positions of decision making? The people they have in charge now clearly are not fit for purpose.
		
Click to expand...

Every week I see ex-players paid good money to tell me they don’t know what handball is anymore and they don’t know what offside is anymore.  Not sure they’re solution to punditry let alone VAR.


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## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2020)

HampshireHog said:



			Every week I see ex-players paid good money to tell me they don’t know what handball is anymore and they don’t know what offside is anymore.  Not sure they’re solution to punditry let alone VAR.
		
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Ah but the point is, they are at a loss with the current rules, which are obviously written by people who didn't play the game, that's why. I actually think it's a good shout that ex-players should be involved in the football laws as well as enforcing them.


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## Fish (Oct 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Ah but the point is, they are at a loss with the current rules, which are obviously written by people who didn't play the game, that's why. I actually think it's a good shout that ex-players should be involved in the football laws as well as enforcing them.
		
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I don’t, take a strikers opinion like Shearer bleats on about when someone goes down easy, he states, if he feels his hands on him, he has the right to go down! Ffs, do we really need opinions like that making decisions?


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## adam6177 (Oct 25, 2020)

Fish said:



			I don’t, take a strikers opinion like Shearer bleats on about when someone goes down easy, he states, if he feels his hands on him, he has the right to go down! Ffs, do we really need opinions like that making decisions?
		
Click to expand...

The question then is.... Is that any worse than the garbage that is making the decisions now.


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## HampshireHog (Oct 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Ah but the point is, they are at a loss with the current rules, which are obviously written by people who didn't play the game, that's why. I actually think it's a good shout that ex-players should be involved in the football laws as well as enforcing them.
		
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So given that if you get any incident that isn’t black and white put any 3 players in a studio and they won’t agree as they have a bias based on the position they played, etc...  , as there opinion is subjective.  I’m not saying that players organisation shouldn’t have any input into the law.  But I can’t think of less suitable set of people to enforce it.


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## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2020)

Fish said:



			I don’t, take a strikers opinion like Shearer bleats on about when someone goes down easy, he states, if he feels his hands on him, he has the right to go down! Ffs, do we really need opinions like that making decisions?
		
Click to expand...

I didn't mean just any ex-pro who fancies the gig. Obviously there would be interviews and suchlike just like any other appointment.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I didn't mean just any ex-pro who fancies the gig. Obviously there would be interviews and suchlike just like any other appointment.
		
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Nah keep ex pro's away from refereeing/VAR. 

We need a better standard of referees.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I thought it was a harsh red card but can see why it wouldn’t be overturned. Guess it’s all evened out after getting away with one last week.
		
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2 wrongs don't make a right. Accepting that theory has got us where we are today. 

Demote/promote refs more frequently. Let's raise the standard.


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## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			2 wrongs don't make a right. Accepting that theory has got us where we are today.

Demote/promote refs more frequently. Let's raise the standard.
		
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That's all very well but refs aren't reffing the games anymore, they're just spokesman for Stockley Park. I say scrap Stockley altogether and let the officials just review on the screen by the pitch if they need to. That would be an improvement.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			2 wrongs don't make a right. Accepting that theory has got us where we are today.

Demote/promote refs more frequently. Let's raise the standard.
		
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Didn’t say it was right and certainly not accepting anything - not that we have a choice anyway. Refs do get demoted for example Coote was removed from VAR duties after last weekend but it doesn’t happen enough and there is no acceptance of mistakes - instead constant covering up ( as they did for the Fabinho penalty )


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That's all very well but refs aren't reffing the games anymore, they're just spokesman for Stockley Park. I say scrap Stockley altogether and let the officials just review on the screen by the pitch if they need to. That would be an improvement.
		
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Its a start, but reviewing at pitch side takes time. 

Mike Riley needs binning for a start.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didn’t say it was right and certainly not accepting anything - not that we have a choice anyway. Refs do get demoted for example Coote was removed from VAR duties after last weekend but it doesn’t happen enough and there is no acceptance of mistakes - instead constant covering up ( as they did for the Fabinho penalty )
		
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I make reference to your "guess its evened itself out"  comment.

Refs don't get demoted to the championship though. Coote shouldn't ref another PL game, he's not upto the standard.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2020)

Just seen Ancellotti's interview, has he really just blamed everyone else for Digne's red card?

Good Luck with appeal 😁


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## Jensen (Oct 25, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Born in Croydon, went to Selhurst Park at about 6 years old when my school team was in a schools final. Saw my first game v Leeds in 1965 when I got a ticket for my 13th birthday, and went to senior school in South Norwood about a quarter of a mile from the ground. Saw them when they were the "team of the 70's, 80's and 90's and have been many times since.Always liked the fact that I supported my home team and not one that won the league the first year I got into football 🤔
		
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John Burridge played for your boys for a few years, and a few clubs after 😄
Vince Hilaire was another floating down the wing at times


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 25, 2020)

As much as I admire what Parker has done, we can't keep having more of the ball than the other side and not have an end product. We clearly still have defensive issues and nothing has changed all season. Unless we change the approach and that may or may not involve a new manager then we'll be toast by Christmas. We have to be winning home games and need a win urgently. I would suggest rather than looking at splashing more cash in an inflated January market, it would be better to get a more experienced PL manager in (and paying the salary involved) even if that's only on a 2-3 year contract


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## SaintHacker (Oct 25, 2020)

I really wish they'd stop this business of not flagging for offside until the phase of play has finished, its ridiculous. If he's offside just flag it and get on with the bloody game!


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## chrisd (Oct 25, 2020)

Jensen said:



			John Burridge played for your boys for a few years, and a few clubs after 😄
Vince Hilaire was another floating down the wing at times
		
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Indeed, I saw both play many a time. Hilaire was the Stirling of his day and Burridge was a very decent keeper


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2020)

Finally, the penny's starting to drop with Rodgers.


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## Fish (Oct 28, 2020)

I’ll take it but it’s not a pen, drilled at him, comes off his thigh, his arm isn’t raised, very poor decision which matches the refs performance.

But that’s a good goal from Ziyech💙


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 28, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Indeed, I saw both play many a time. Hilaire was the Stirling of his day and Burridge was a very decent keeper
		
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Burridge was a nutter. A likeable nutter with an eccentric warm up


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 28, 2020)

Good to see Southend's future seems that bit rosier after a winding up order is dismissed. It has to be good for the lower divisions and particular local communities that these clubs continue to play and exist https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54718151


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## Kellfire (Oct 28, 2020)

Ole’s at the wheel.


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## Slime (Oct 28, 2020)

A complete performance, wonderful stuff.


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## chrisd (Oct 28, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Burridge was a nutter. A likeable nutter with an eccentric warm up 





Click to expand...

Yep, saw him do that sort of routine a fair few times


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## GreiginFife (Oct 29, 2020)

How is it possible for Man United to put in such Jekyll and Hyde performances?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 29, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			How is it possible for Man United to put in such Jekyll and Hyde performances?
		
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Lack of strong manager - there a lot of talented players in the squad but there is no structure , no identity - rivals will be happy for OGS to stay in charge of the team because that will ensure they stay inconsistent , if they got a top class manager like Pochettino or Nagelsmann in then they would become a threat


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## GreiginFife (Oct 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lack of strong manager - there a lot of talented players in the squad but there is no structure , no identity - rivals will be happy for OGS to stay in charge of the team because that will ensure they stay inconsistent , if they got a top class manager like Pochettino or Nagelsmann in then they would become a threat
		
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IMO there is more strange voodoo at work then simply a weak manager. The variability is just too stark.


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## Kellfire (Oct 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lack of strong manager - there a lot of talented players in the squad but there is no structure , no identity - rivals will be happy for OGS to stay in charge of the team because that will ensure they stay inconsistent , if they got a top class manager like Pochettino or Nagelsmann in then they would become a threat
		
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I really rate Nagelsmann and would take him at Man Utd but last night was his biggest loss as a manager. Stats can prove anything. Heh.


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## Slime (Oct 29, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			How is it possible for Man United to put in such Jekyll and Hyde performances?
		
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Can't think of many Premier League clubs who have been consistent this season, there have been an awful lot of very strange performances/results.


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## Slime (Oct 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Lack of strong manager *- there a lot of talented players in the squad but there is no structure , no identity - rivals will be happy for OGS to stay in charge of the team because that will ensure they stay inconsistent , if they got a top class manager like Pochettino or Nagelsmann in then they would become a threat
		
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How do any of us actually know whether or not he's a strong manager.
I'd be happy to keep him for at least the rest of the season.
A bit of backing from the Glazers wouldn't be a bad thing either!


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## GreiginFife (Oct 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			Can't think of many Premier League clubs who have been consistent this season, there have been an awful lot of very strange performances/results.
		
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Said as only a fan can 😉. There is inconsistent and then there is inconsistent. 
Yep, few strange results but not many like what Untd have served up so far.


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## Slime (Oct 29, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			Said as only a fan can 😉. There is inconsistent and then there is inconsistent.
Yep, few strange results but not many like what Untd have served up so far.
		
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Why do you think United have been that much more inconsistent than any other team?


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## Orikoru (Oct 29, 2020)

A side with Sanchez and Aurier in it, and it's Davies who hands them a goal! Who'd have thought.


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## Orikoru (Oct 29, 2020)

Wow, this is peak José - four subs at half time!


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## USER1999 (Oct 29, 2020)

Pepe. So frustrating. Brilliant goal. Against minnows. Why can't he do that a bit more often.


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## Fish (Oct 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Wow, this is peak José - four subs at half time! 

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Not to be seen again, going by interview.

As he stated, _I get criticised for not playing certain players or giving some a chance_, ’and now you know why’ he said 😂


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## Orikoru (Oct 30, 2020)

Fish said:



			Not to be seen again, going by interview.

As he stated, _I get criticised for not playing certain players or giving some a chance_, ’and now you know why’ he said 😂
		
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Haha, yeah I saw what he said. Although while Dele didn't play very well, I think it was harsh on Vinicius.

I actually thought he was wrong to make four subs at half time. It kind of instilled panic and desperation where it wasn't required - we were only 1-0 down and I felt we needed a bit of patience, maybe just bring on Hojbjerg to get a hold of the midfield as he seems to be key to operations these days. But to make four subs is something you do at 3-0 down, not 1-0 down thanks to a gift of a goal.


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## 4LEX (Oct 30, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			How is it possible for Man United to put in such Jekyll and Hyde performances?
		
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The performances in the CL have been excellent because it suits Ole's only style of football. Defend, counter and rely on individual quality. RB pushed forward and got picked off in the second half, first half they were probably the better side. These results are a veneer as they won't win the CL or even go deep into the knock outs, they just mask the bigger problems. After almost two years under Ole and over £250m spent on his watch, they still have no style of play, no identity and no sign of progress. Man Utd have a top quality squad and to only have 7 points from 5 games is appalling. Two of the worst starts in the last 30 years have both been under Ole for two years in a row.....no coincidence.

It'll be a cycle of good results, bad ones and many average ones. The quality of players will see to a finish of 3-6th but every game under Ole is a waste of progress a world class manager could be making. Liverpool aren't going to get 90 points without VVD, City look way off the pace with Pep burnt out, this should be a season they challenge.


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2020)

4LEX said:



			The performances in the CL have been excellent because it *suits Ole's only style of football. Defend, counter and rely on individual quality*. RB pushed forward and got picked off in the second half, first half they were probably the better side. These results are a veneer as they won't win the CL or even go deep into the knock outs, they just mask the bigger problems. After almost two years under Ole and over £250m spent on his watch, *they still have no style of play*, no identity and no sign of progress. Man Utd have a top quality squad and to only have 7 points from 5 games is appalling. Two of the worst starts in the last 30 years have both been under Ole for two years in a row.....no coincidence.

It'll be a cycle of good results, bad ones and many average ones. The quality of players will see to a finish of 3-6th but every game under Ole is a waste of progress a world class manager could be making. Liverpool aren't going to get 90 points without VVD, City look way off the pace with Pep burnt out, this should be a season they challenge.
		
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Either they have a style or they dont


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 30, 2020)

4LEX said:



			The performances in the CL have been excellent because it suits Ole's only style of football. Defend, counter and rely on individual quality. RB pushed forward and got picked off in the second half, first half they were probably the better side. These results are a veneer as they won't win the CL or even go deep into the knock outs, they just mask the bigger problems. After almost two years under Ole and over £250m spent on his watch, they still have no style of play, no identity and no sign of progress. Man Utd have a top quality squad and to only have 7 points from 5 games is appalling. Two of the worst starts in the last 30 years have both been under Ole for two years in a row.....no coincidence.

It'll be a cycle of good results, bad ones and many average ones. The quality of players will see to a finish of 3-6th but every game under Ole is a waste of progress a world class manager could be making. Liverpool aren't going to get 90 points without VVD, City look way off the pace with Pep burnt out, this should be a season they challenge.
		
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You can generally tell from opposition fans regarding a manager. I was very happy with Jose at utd, still happy with Ole. I'm loving the win, lose, draw angle that keeps him, and Jose for a spell, that is happening at utd. It's enough to keep him in a job, not enough to be a genuine threat. 

Not happy with Jurgen 😠. Liverpool should definitely sack him 🤔😉😆

Nuff said?


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## Fish (Oct 31, 2020)

Excellent performance, 6 changes and it was so balanced, some superb individual performances, and more importantly, a 4th in the row clean sheet. 

New players have settled in quickly, I can see us going from strength to strength now and on a good run 💙


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Pablo fornals! 

I really love that guy. Rate him a lot .. glad to see him adapting 

Long way to go tho ... Liverpool's front 3 to all score


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Pfft can't touch Salah near the box. Defo contact which is now a pen but wow he does throw himself down


Well taken pen thou


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jamie Cara what an awful pundit

Shouldn't be allowed to comment on Liverpool games 

No issues with the result it's been a tough game we tried to hold on

But the disallowed goal he was talking a ton of BS.

Doesn't matter If defender got that touch, mane (accidentally but still a foul) took out the keeper


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## Bazzatron (Oct 31, 2020)

About that 40m that I thought we robbed Liverpool of......


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## davemc1 (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Jamie Cara what an awful pundit

Shouldn't be allowed to comment on Liverpool games

No issues with the result it's been a tough game we tried to hold on

But the disallowed goal he was talking a ton of BS.

Doesn't matter If defender got that touch, mane (accidentally but still a foul) took out the keeper
		
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The goal was disallowed for a foul on the defender. So judging your thoughts it was hardly clear and obvious, to overturn it?


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## davemc1 (Oct 31, 2020)

Given the amount of times they win late on, Im terribly uneasy watching lpool. I really should have more faith 😄


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			The goal was disallowed for a foul on the defender. So judging your thoughts it was hardly clear and obvious, to overturn it?
		
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Looked like foul on keeper and did they say foul on defender? Because they never say what the foul is.

Only the pundits say oh it was cuz of this .. which they can get wrong


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

Thought it was a harsh disallowed goal but I’m happy that the ref went over to the screen to check. Can see why they disallowed it even though it was 50:50

Was impressed with Nat Phillips - good physical presence


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## fundy (Oct 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thought it was a harsh disallowed goal but I’m happy that the ref went over to the screen to check. Can see why they disallowed it even though it was 50:50
		
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youd have been screaming for it at the other end, clear foul, clear free kick, not close to 50:50 lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Jamie Cara what an awful pundit

Shouldn't be allowed to comment on Liverpool games

No issues with the result it's been a tough game we tried to hold on

But the disallowed goal he was talking a ton of BS.

Doesn't matter If defender got that touch, mane (accidentally but still a foul) took out the keeper
		
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I don't think Carra should be allowed to commentate. End of. Passable in the studio analysing when he can be scripted and has time to rehearse but simply can't react and comment as the game is progressing.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Jamie Cara what an awful pundit

Shouldn't be allowed to comment on Liverpool games

No issues with the result it's been a tough game we tried to hold on

But the disallowed goal he was talking a ton of BS.

Doesn't matter If defender got that touch, mane (accidentally but still a foul) took out the keeper
		
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He was ajudged to have fouled Ogbonna, not the keeper. 😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He was ajudged to have fouled Ogbonna, not the keeper. 😂😂
		
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Stu where did he say that tho? Cuz was it the pundits who explained it because the refs never seem to

But still
He was talking complete rubbish .. and he did take out keeper lol and defender it seems


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## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Pfft can't touch Salah near the box. Defo contact which is now a pen but wow he does throw himself down


Well taken pen thou
		
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Unfortunately if he doesn't,like all the other pro's, he doesn't get it. 

Its not right, I don't particularly agree with it but this is were the game is and has been for 20yrs +.  Its not going to change anytime soon.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Stu where did he say that tho? Cuz was it the pundits who explained it because the refs never seem to

But still
He was talking complete rubbish .. and he did take out keeper lol and defender it seems
		
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It was confirmed a minute or so after the goal. Unfortunately the pundits don't have access to the convo with the VAR Ref so they can only discuss what they see.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2020)

Here  comes dignity dave cryarsing over the pen 😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It was confirmed a minute or so after the goal. Unfortunately the pundits don't have access to the convo with the VAR Ref so they can only discuss what they see.
		
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Wish they would get him off the telly 

Good game tho 

Jota has really settled in Liverpool


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## adam6177 (Oct 31, 2020)

It's amusing watching the pundits analyse the game trying to say the Salah penalty was soft versus the mane "challenge" on the keeper being an obvious foul..... Sometimes I wonder what planet people are on.


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## adam6177 (Nov 1, 2020)

Just watched MOTD and in particular the wolves / palace match.  

Dominant display from wolves and it seemed just bad tactics from palace.

The one thing that confused me is that I thought offside lines were now being drawn from the "sleeve"? For the disallowed penalty the line seems to be back to the shoulder/armpit again.  Not that it would have made a difference in the decision as he was clearly offside, but I don't see why the line was drawn where it was.

Any clue?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Just watched MOTD and in particular the wolves / palace match. 

Dominant display from wolves and it seemed just bad tactics from palace.

The one thing that confused me is that I thought offside lines were now being drawn from the "sleeve"? For the disallowed penalty the line seems to be back to the shoulder/armpit again.  Not that it would have made a difference in the decision as he was clearly offside, but I don't see why the line was drawn where it was.

Any clue?

View attachment 33242

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No even managers havnt got a clue.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			No even managers havnt got a clue.
		
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To be fair, based on post match interviews, most managers really don't have a clue about the laws 😁


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## davemc1 (Nov 1, 2020)

Just seen the villa-saints score 🤣🤣


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## Papas1982 (Nov 1, 2020)

And guess who decided on Greenwood instead of JWP for their dreamteam.....


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## davemc1 (Nov 1, 2020)

Pickford’s made a solid start 👍🏻


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Pickford’s made a solid start 👍🏻
		
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already made the team sheet for next week on all accounts


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

Can Willian give the ball away any more than he already has? It's 14m in, and every time he gets it, he gives it away. Absolute waste of space and money. His corners are pathetic also.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Can Willian give the ball away any more than he already has? It's 14m in, and every time he gets it, he gives it away. Absolute waste of space and money. His corners are pathetic also.
		
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can we get a couple more out of the Partey mould plse?


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Can Willian give the ball away any more than he already has? It's 14m in, and every time he gets it, he gives it away. Absolute waste of space and money. His corners are pathetic also.
		
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10 times in 14 minutes! utterly unreal


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## Fish (Nov 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Can Willian give the ball away any more than he already has? It's 14m in, and every time he gets it, he gives it away. Absolute waste of space and money. His corners are pathetic also.
		
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Everyone said we were mad to let him go, but he wanted a be longer contract, which you gave him, you’re welcome 👍😉


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Everyone said we were mad to let him go, but he wanted a be longer contract, which you gave him, you’re welcome 👍😉
		
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all you ever give us is duds lol, can have em all back (esp Luiz) imho


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## Fish (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			all you ever give us is duds lol, can have em all back (esp Luiz) imho
		
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You’ll have Hazard next, needs to lose a few stones (not pounds), could be interesting 🤔


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

I like Auba, Saka, Tierney, Gabriel, Partey, and Martinelli when fit.

Bellerin is having a better season than he has for a while. Elneny is a fine athlete, not sure about his football, it lacks ambition.

Willian, Xhaka, Luiz, Lacazette, are all sucking the life out of the game.

In the main, I would rather watch the kids, they have a higher ceiling, may be, but it at least is fun.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			You’ll have Hazard next, needs to lose a few stones (not pounds), could be interesting 🤔
		
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haha hes out of our price range


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## Fish (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			haha hes out of our price range
		
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RM will subsidize him, I’m hearing lots of rumours regarding him returning to the prem, and he’s not coming back to us!


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

Lovely air shot from Laca, and then Willian knocks it over. Comedy stuff from experienced players.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Lovely air shot from Laca, and then Willian knocks it over. Comedy stuff from experienced players.
		
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Laca misses a great chance every game while Aubameyang is out hugging the touchline  had enough of it 

Ooh Saka should score there


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			Laca misses a great chance every game while Aubameyang is out hugging the touchline  had enough of it

Ooh Saka should score there
		
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Yep, just don't get it. 

An air shot. Not just a great chance, he is a yard out, and completely misses the ball.

At least Saka is young, and learning the game. Lacazette is meant to be a 50m striker, in his prime.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 1, 2020)

Arsenal have dominated that half, should be well ahead.


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

Seen the replays, ok, 5 yards out, still an air shot.


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## paddyc (Nov 1, 2020)

Same old Arsenal.pretty football trying to walk the ball in the net and not scoring enough  goals.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Same old Arsenal.pretty football trying to walk the ball in the net and not scoring enough  goals.
		
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just missing the individual error to gift them a soft goal eh Pat


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			just missing the individual error to gift them a soft goal eh Pat 

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It's coming.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Pepe and AMN/Ceballos for Laca and William plse


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			Pepe and AMN/Ceballos for Laca and William plse
		
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Rather watch Pepe fall over than watch Willian give it away any more.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

get in Aubam (cheers Pogba), now to watch the last 20 mins from behind the sofa lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

A penalty against UTD 😱😱😱😱


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## paddyc (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			just missing the individual error to gift them a soft goal eh Pat 

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Yep there you go mate😁😁👍


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## davemc1 (Nov 1, 2020)

Pretty similar pen to salahs yesterday. Let’s brace for the outrage.

maybe not 😞


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Pretty similar pen to salahs yesterday. Let’s brace for the outrage.

maybe not 😞
		
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Not really. Pogba caught his ankle, without getting any where near the ball. It was a penalty. Cast iron.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Gary Neville thinks its a clear pen against utd and Liverpool fans are trying to use it to excuse Salah lol

Bellerin definitely one who goes to ground easily, just doesnt have the arched back and take off Salah uses


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## Slime (Nov 1, 2020)

Beat PSG, can't score against Chelsea.
Thrash Leipzig, losing to Arsenal.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Gabriel a touch fortunate there with Dean in charge


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## Slime (Nov 1, 2020)

How's that not a second yellow?


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			Gary Neville thinks its a clear pen against utd and Liverpool fans are trying to use it to excuse Salah lol

Bellerin definitely one who goes to ground easily, just doesnt have the arched back and take off Salah uses 

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For sure he needs to work on his style. Needs more dramatic effect, more rolls, and may be clutching the wrong leg. Still a penalty though.


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			How's that not a second yellow?
		
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Because he is a very nice chap, and not that sort of a player.


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## paddyc (Nov 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			How's that not a second yellow?
		
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cause not every foul is a yellow believe it or not!


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## davemc1 (Nov 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Not really. Pogba caught his ankle, without getting any where near the ball. It was a penalty. Cast iron.
		
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I never said it wasn’t a pen. He got kicked, salah got kicked. Both pens 👍🏻


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## Slime (Nov 1, 2020)

paddyc said:



			cause not every foul is a yellow believe it or not!
		
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I've seen many booked for far less.


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## Slime (Nov 1, 2020)

Time for Pogba to be binned, he's just not up for a fight.


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## Slime (Nov 1, 2020)

Ha, ha ................................ but that one is a yellow.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Some encouraging signs, albeit it was only united 

Partey looks excellent and thought Elneny did well alongside, bit more solid at the back as long as we cut out the individual errors, Gabriel def an upgrade on what we had. Plenty of scope to continue the improvement and surely we have to find a way to get Aubam down the middle rather than wasting him out wide as currently


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## Kellfire (Nov 1, 2020)

Terrible game and no real quality from either side.


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Terrible game and no real quality from either side.
		
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Harsh. I think given some of the dross Arsenal have, they played pretty well. Just poor finishing lead to the score line.


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## adam6177 (Nov 1, 2020)

Good to see Arsenal outclass man u, good signs for them.


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## chrisd (Nov 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Terrible game and no real quality from either side.
		
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Arsenal's no real quality was much better than United's


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

Really like Gabriel.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

Good midtable battle 😁 - that shows exactly why rival fans are happy for OGS to continue to be UTD manager


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good midtable battle 😁 - that shows exactly why rival fans are happy for OGS to continue to be UTD manager
		
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Only 4 points seperate the top from mid table. A bit early to crow. Liverpool are far from Champions as it stands.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Terrible game and no real quality from either side.
		
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would you like some bitter with that lol


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## 4LEX (Nov 1, 2020)

Ole at the Wheel 

Arteta and Arsenal did a proper job on Man Utd. Outclassed tactically in the first half and the second was pretty poor by both sides.

Man Utd really are a mess, all that investment and the only tactic was long balls from Pogba to Rashford. No idea on formation, tactics, subs or style.


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## paddyc (Nov 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Terrible game and no real quality from either side.
		
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Bit harsh on Arsenal that mate. gone to old Trafford  pretty much dominated, played some nice stuff, created chances, looked solid defensively,got a well deserved win. that's a quality performance in my book.


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## Slime (Nov 1, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Bit harsh on Arsenal that mate. gone to old Trafford  pretty much dominated, played some nice stuff, created chances, looked solid defensively,got a well deserved win. that's a quality performance in my book.
		
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Yet needed a penalty to win.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			Yet needed a penalty to win. 

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didnt worry you 25 times last season


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## Stuart_C (Nov 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			Yet needed a penalty to win. 

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Makes a change, its usually yernited 😂😂


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## Slime (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			didnt worry you 25 times last season 

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Good sidestep.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			Good sidestep.  

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not me that needs to sidestep lol, ive been plenty critical of us the last few years and will continue to be, doesnt mean im not gonna enjoy a deserved win against an awful united side 

nice to see some encouraging signs


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Poor old Roy Keane lol, fully expect his head to explode any second now


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## Kellfire (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			would you like some bitter with that lol
		
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Are you a child lol


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Are you a child lol
		
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Nope, thats why Im having a nice cold beer to celebrate


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## AmandaJR (Nov 1, 2020)

Love it "you may have beat us but you were marginally less crap than us -  and needed a penalty" 

Ole Ole Ole Ole...


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 1, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Ole at the Wheel 

Arteta and Arsenal did a proper job on Man Utd. Outclassed tactically in the first half and the second was pretty poor by both sides.

Man Utd really are a mess, all that investment and the only tactic was long balls from Pogba to Rashford. No idea on formation, tactics, subs or style.
		
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100 games in for Ole and not much in progress to show for it despite the investment. Arsenal looked far more solid and organised (not something you can always say about them). Surprising result (to me) for Southampton and Spurs struggling to beat Brighton. Think the league is so open this year and can't see one club running away with it unlike last year


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			can we get a couple more out of the Partey mould plse?
		
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Told yer he's very good.


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## PieMan (Nov 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Really like Gabriel.
		
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Wrong Forum surely?!!! 😉


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## 4LEX (Nov 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			100 games in for Ole and not much in progress to show for it despite the investment. Arsenal looked far more solid and organised (not something you can always say about them). Surprising result (to me) for Southampton and Spurs struggling to beat Brighton. Think the league is so open this year and can't see one club running away with it unlike last year
		
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Theres absolutely no progess. No style, no coaching, no idea. Third position on the final day with an all time record low points total for it glossed over a really poor season. When the game looks up he'll get a couple of big results to keep him in the job. Every game he's manager Man Utd are going backwards. 

Arteta is working with a smaller and far less talented squad. He's come in, changed the culture of being easy to beat, installed a new style and even managed to win a trophy. Still early days but he looks impressive.


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## Junior (Nov 2, 2020)

Ole has to go.  There I said it.

I think our squad is decent.   He just doesn't know his best side and I've never known a manager tactically be so inconsistent.  We look such a better team without Maguire and when Mata starts.  Mata is a better link between the midfield and the front players and we don't rely on a long ball.  We always get stuck tapping it between the midfield and the defenders. 

Arsenal were miles the better side last night. The few chances we got to break in the first half they pulled the Pep tactic and stopped the play.  We then couldn't get through the press and looked ragged.

Would a new manager get the best out of Pogba, im not sure........cmon Poch we'll give you a whirl now.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 2, 2020)

I'm starting to ask myself do these refs know the rules and the game when it comes to VAR?

I've already gone through the terrible 3 decisions in the Everton game, but more since and the two decisions in the Spurs game yesterday.

Lallana was the only one following the ball, and "got up early" as any good player should. Kane looks at the man only, plays the man by getting barging into him then gets a pen for it. Then you have the Solly March tackle who gets a smidgeon of ball, but cleaned the man out.


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## Orikoru (Nov 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm starting to ask myself do these refs know the rules and the game when it comes to VAR?

I've already gone through the terrible 3 decisions in the Everton game, but more since and the two decisions in the Spurs game yesterday.

Lallana was the only one following the ball, and "got up early" as any good player should. Kane looks at the man only, plays the man by getting barging into him then gets a pen for it. Then you have the Solly March tackle who gets a smidgeon of ball, but cleaned the man out.
		
Click to expand...

The penalty was very lucky I must admit, Kane was clever to put himself in between Lallana and the ball, and I initially thought it was outside the box, but they must have given it for Lallana's forearm in Kane's neck since that was about a cm inside the line. It did look a foul on Hojbjerg though that we didn't get so who knows what they're looking at on these reviews. Crouchy was funny on MOTD2 - "at least it's good to see the referee actually reviewing decisions now on the pitchside monitor.. and still getting it wrong."


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 2, 2020)

Leicester a proper pain in the arse team. It’s hard to see how you stop that attacking pace. They’re perfectly set up for the counter.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2020)

We are staying up say we are staying up


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We are staying up say we are staying up
		
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No you’re not 😆


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			No you’re not 😆
		
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Give a long suffering fan a tiny crumb


----------



## fundy (Nov 2, 2020)

youll get a decent understanding of where you are saturday night against west ham I expect, will go into the game with some confidence at least. Baggies fans cant have much hope currently mind, 1 shot on target in that sort of game really bodes badly for them


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## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			youll get a decent understanding of where you are saturday night against west ham I expect, will go into the game with some confidence at least. Baggies fans cant have much hope currently mind, 1 shot on target in that sort of game really bodes badly for them
		
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Wba were down the minute they appointed bilic 

Nice guy but clueless manager


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Wba were down the minute they appointed bilic

Nice guy but clueless manager
		
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I had a decent bet on him to be next mgr sacked when at yours, sadly your board took far too long to pull the trigger lol


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## 4LEX (Nov 2, 2020)

Junior said:



			Ole has to go.  There I said it.

I think our squad is decent.   He just doesn't know his best side and I've never known a manager tactically be so inconsistent.  We look such a better team without Maguire and when Mata starts.  Mata is a better link between the midfield and the front players and we don't rely on a long ball.  We always get stuck tapping it between the midfield and the defenders.

Arsenal were miles the better side last night. The few chances we got to break in the first half they pulled the Pep tactic and stopped the play.  We then couldn't get through the press and looked ragged.

Would a new manager get the best out of Pogba, im not sure........cmon Poch we'll give you a whirl now.
		
Click to expand...

Pogba has been a liability for two seasons now. He should've been sold in 2019 when he had a decent market value. The problem is now he's only got 18 months of his deal left come January and on current form he's worth £30-40m less than Man Utd paid. Woodward has got himself in a position where he'll have to offer a ridiculous contract to keep him and save face, or take a massive hit. It makes the £10m shortfall over Sancho even more laughable, it's not just about what you spend it's about how much you sell players for. Man Utd have bought high and sold low for so long. It all adds up. Only PSG would be stupid enough to pay over £50m for him with his wage demands.

Poch is the obvious appointment. He's got experience in England and overachieved at Spurs given the stadium move and transfer restraints. He also brings in a team of coaches so Man Utd can wave goodbye to the clueless gaggle of sycophants in Carrick and McKenna.


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## Orikoru (Nov 2, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Wba were down the minute they appointed bilic

Nice guy but clueless manager
		
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So they were down a whole year before they even went up? That's a strange take.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			So they were down a whole year before they even went up? That's a strange take.
		
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He has one good season with the feel good factor ... Where he is the players mate ..

Then players fitness and discipline goes and his team's are rubbish 


When Moyes came in first time he commented how unfit we were (how we were blowing out our bums at 70 mins)


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## GG26 (Nov 2, 2020)

Nice win for the Foxes 😀

Vardy may have lost a yard of pace, but his all around game is getting better and better.  Fofana looks a great prospect.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 2, 2020)

Pochettino on MNF has been brilliant. Comes across as a really good guy, could listen to him forever.


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## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2020)

GG26 said:



			Nice win for the Foxes 😀

*Vardy may have lost a yard of pace*, but his all around game is getting better and better.  Fofana looks a great prospect.
		
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Has he?? I'm not sure he has!



Stuart_C said:



			Pochettino on MNF has been brilliant. Comes across as a really good guy, could listen to him forever.
		
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I do like listening to him but his accent is tough to make out sometimes. I have to listen very closely to get what he's saying. He never has a bad word to say about anyone or any of the situations he's been in.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2020)

Did Jota really only cost £40mil - looking a steal right now , clinical


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## hairball_89 (Nov 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did Jota really only cost £40mil - looking a steal right now , clinical
		
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The recruitment team are fab. I thought he was going to fit in well... But the way he's slotted in and looks like he's been here for years is mad. 

Both finishes tonight excellent. Arguably should have a hat trick. The boy Williams has done well too. Shame Thiago isn't fit... He'd have a field day with the space they're giving our midfield!


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did Jota really only cost £40mil - looking a steal right now , clinical
		
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Agree,
Think Firmino might struggle to get back in.
Big difference between them is his finishing.


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## Bazzatron (Nov 3, 2020)

I didn't think Jota would be as good as he's been, thought 40m was way too much. We should've asked for 80m! Good on him.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 3, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			I didn't think Jota would be as good as he's been, thought 40m was way too much. We should've asked for 80m! Good on him.
		
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He's settled in quicker than anybody could have predicted. I was excited when we signed him, but he's already excelling. Can he keep it up? Who knows. Hopefully him coming in allows us to pick "3 from 4" - what I'd hoped with the Werner noise before he went to Chelsea - and that means none of them have to keep up the form. There's always one of them hungry on the bench!

Great performance. Another game for Jones and Williams. Minutes for Tsimikas, neco, keita too. Bring on City!


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 3, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			He's settled in quicker than anybody could have predicted. I was excited when we signed him, but he's already excelling. Can he keep it up? Who knows. Hopefully him coming in allows us to pick "3 from 4" - what I'd hoped with the Werner noise before he went to Chelsea - and that means none of them have to keep up the form. There's always one of them hungry on the bench!

Great performance. Another game for Jones and Williams. Minutes for Tsimikas, neco, keita too. Bring on City!
		
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He's a confidence player, he'll keep banging them in as long as that stays high.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			I didn't think Jota would be as good as he's been, thought 40m was way too much. We should've asked for 80m! Good on him.
		
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He's from the same mould as Mane. One of the Southampton lads on here said something similar about Mane  as you did with Jota when we signed him. Playing with better players helps too 

He's exciting to watch, long way to go but initial performances have been superb.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 3, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			He's settled in quicker than anybody could have predicted. I was excited when we signed him, but he's already excelling. Can he keep it up? Who knows. *Hopefully him coming in allows us to pick "3 from 4"* - what I'd hoped with the Werner noise before he went to Chelsea - and that means none of them have to keep up the form. There's always one of them hungry on the bench!

Great performance. Another game for Jones and Williams. Minutes for Tsimikas, neco, keita too. Bring on City!
		
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Is it not picking 1 from 2 with either Jota *or* Firmino along with Salah and Mane? That's a genuine question by the way, not a dig, as I don't know enough about Jota to know if he's capable of doing the Mane/Salah role.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 4, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is it not picking 1 from 2 with either Jota *or* Firmino along with Salah and Mane? That's a genuine question by the way, not a dig, as I don't know enough about Jota to know if he's capable of doing the Mane/Salah role.
		
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I expected him to play off the left. Covering for Mane, with Minamino covering for Bobby and Shaq/Mane covering for Salah. What we've seen, for me, is that he can play anywhere across the 3 and our productivity doesn't drop. He's not as good as Mane or Salah, but few are. Tonight, through the middle he showed what he can do. When he came on for Bobby against Everton, he played off the left, Mane went through the middle.

The key for me, is that our game doesn't change. The personnel may be different, but so many times over the last few seasons you've seen Origi come on for one of the front 3 and our attack die. He's a reasonable top level (PL) footballer. But he's not on the same wavelength as the other 3, technically or mentally. Where Jota comes in, from what I've seen is that he gives us the option to lose one of the 3 and the way we play doesn't change. I still think the 3 are the main 3 and Jota is no4. The city game at the weekend will shed some light, for me Jota deserves to start ahead of Bobby. But it allows us, especially considering the number of games this year, to rest 1 of the main 3 and keep the aggressive nature of the attack.

Quick addition: As @Stuart_C says above, he's not quite there yet as a legitimate 3 from 4 *right now*, although he was absolutely brilliant tonight. But the signs are that he absolutely has everything in his locker to push on.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			I expected him to play off the left. Covering for Mane, with Minamino covering for Bobby and Shaq/Mane covering for Salah. What we've seen, for me, is that he can play anywhere across the 3 and our productivity doesn't drop. He's not as good as Mane or Salah, but few are. Tonight, through the middle he showed what he can do. When he came on for Bobby against Everton, he played off the left, Mane went through the middle.

The key for me, is that our game doesn't change. The personnel may be different, but so many times over the last few seasons you've seen Origi come on for one of the front 3 and our attack die. He's a reasonable top level (PL) footballer. But he's not on the same wavelength as the other 3, technically or mentally. Where Jota comes in, from what I've seen is that he gives us the option to lose one of the 3 and the way we play doesn't change. I still think the 3 are the main 3 and Jota is no4. The city game at the weekend will shed some light, for me Jota deserves to start ahead of Bobby. But it allows us, especially considering the number of games this year, to rest 1 of the main 3 and keep the aggressive nature of the attack.

Quick addition: As @Stuart_C says above, he's not quite there yet as a legitimate 3 from 4 *right now*, although he was absolutely brilliant tonight. But the signs are that he absolutely has everything in his locker to push on.
		
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I think we will see all 4 on the pitch at times, sometimes Jurgen may start with all 4 if he goes to a 4-2-3-1 against defensive teams at Anfield, or sometimes he may finish the game that way if we are behind or only drawing.

He'll also want options for changing one of them in the last 10-15 also, so can still put on Minamino / Origi / Shaq depending on injuries and how many offensive subs he can get on the bench.

We can now change personnel, as well as formation going forward.

We just need to get in a CH in January, as was one short anyway.


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## 4LEX (Nov 4, 2020)

Jota is just top class. Those finishes last night were genuinely world class. No ego, no posing, no excuses - just doing the business right away.

Firmino has been brilliant over the last few years in that role but Jota will give competition and mean Klopp can rotate. I expect Liverpool to play a more attacking formation with the lack of VVD and when Thiago gets a run of games Liverpool will be almost impossible to stop.


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## fundy (Nov 4, 2020)

Ole not gonna be at the wheel much longer


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## davemc1 (Nov 4, 2020)

I can’t wait to hear Slime’s excuse for this, something like;

Christ, I cant think of anything...


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			Ole not gonna be at the wheel much longer 

Click to expand...

Hope not 😢 doing a brilliant job


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## SteveW86 (Nov 4, 2020)

That’s the first time I’ve ever heard of Istanbul Buyuks


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 4, 2020)

If Ole gets then out of the group then fine. If not and the PL form continues then P45 time


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## PieMan (Nov 4, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			I can’t wait to hear Slime’s excuse for this, something like;

Christ, I cant think of anything...
		
Click to expand...

Always difficult going to Turkey though as the home support is always fanatical and the atmosphere intimidating.......oh hold on 🤔😉😂😂😂


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## Stuart_C (Nov 4, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			I can’t wait to hear Slime’s excuse for this, something like;

Christ, I cant think of anything...
		
Click to expand...

They missed Fernandes though....


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## Stuart_C (Nov 4, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Always difficult going to Turkey though as the home support is always fanatical and the atmosphere intimidating.......oh hold on 🤔😉😂😂😂
		
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😂😂😂😂


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## BrianM (Nov 4, 2020)

Just seen Jota’s goals for Liverpool, looks a player with that finishes at the highest level.


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## Slime (Nov 4, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			I can’t wait to hear Slime’s excuse for this, something like;

Christ, I cant think of anything...
		
Click to expand...

No excuse, what were you expecting?


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## 4LEX (Nov 5, 2020)

Man Utd are so inbalanced it's laughable. A right winger would solve a lot of issues......anyone know a decent one? Oh yeah the one they chased all summer only to bottle for £10m, despite giving Cavani a £15m deal and signing a midfielder they didn't need for £40m. 

The most expensive squad in the world being coaching by Ole, Carrick and McKenna. Like letting your half blind Gran drive a Ferrari and being surprised when theres a crash. Mental


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## davemc1 (Nov 5, 2020)

Slime said:



			No excuse, what were you expecting?
		
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Another slimey classic, but don’t suppose I can expect 2 belters in a week 👍🏻


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## Slime (Nov 5, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Man Utd are so inbalanced it's laughable. A right winger would solve a lot of issues......*anyone know a decent one? Oh yeah the one they chased all summer only to bottle for £10m*, despite giving Cavani a £15m deal and signing a midfielder they didn't need for £40m.

The most expensive squad in the world being coaching by Ole, Carrick and McKenna. Like letting your half blind Gran drive a Ferrari and being surprised when theres a crash. Mental 

Click to expand...

Total lack of support by the Glazers and Woodward. OGS wanted Sancho and the club gave him Cavani.
Man United, as a football club, are an absolute joke.


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## Slime (Nov 5, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Another slimey classic, but don’t suppose I can expect 2 belters in a week 👍🏻
		
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Pardon?
I genuinely don't know what you're getting at. 
Can someone please explain?


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## davemc1 (Nov 5, 2020)

Slime said:



			Pardon?
I genuinely don't know what you're getting at.
Can someone please explain?
		
Click to expand...




Slime said:



			Yet needed a penalty to win. 

Click to expand...

this 👆


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## Slime (Nov 5, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			this 👆
		
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## USER1999 (Nov 5, 2020)

How the flipping heck did Kolasinac miss that?


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## fundy (Nov 5, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			How the flipping heck did Kolasinac miss that?
		
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cos he cant kick with that one 

its like half a team of last year that we shouldve (and still should) moved on with half a side of potential. the sum seems to be less than it should though!


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## USER1999 (Nov 5, 2020)

At this rate we could take 11 players off and win 4, 1.


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## USER1999 (Nov 5, 2020)

Lovely from Pepe.


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## fundy (Nov 5, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Lovely from Pepe.
		
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5 mins for Saka to bring more to the game than Willian did in 65!


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## pendodave (Nov 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			5 mins for Saka to bring more to the game than Willian did in 65!
		
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Don't worry.  I'm sure he'll get better over the next three years as he gets.....older and slower....


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2020)

serious risk of nosebleeds down the coast at southampton tonight


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## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			serious risk of nosebleeds down the coast at southampton tonight 

Click to expand...

Sssshhhh.  You be quiet dammit!


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## Orikoru (Nov 6, 2020)

Good news, the £14.95 thing has been scrapped. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Good news, the £14.95 thing has been scrapped. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
		
Click to expand...

not for this weekend though


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## Orikoru (Nov 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			not for this weekend though 

Click to expand...

No, I guess two or three people might have bought them already. Spurs are on it for the second Prem game running which is annoying as well.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2020)

I'm sorry. What?!!


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2020)

Saints are top of the premier league


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2020)

I predicted 2-0. Stop the game now


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## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2020)

Come on UTD, City,WBA and a draw for Leicester/Wolves!


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2020)

Sorry Papas, you know the rules around here........ The league table doesn't matter till after 10games. Rules are rules😉


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## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry Papas, you know the rules around here........ The league table doesn't matter till after 10games. Rules are rules😉
		
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😂😂😂

Too late. I've already bought the frame for my canvas I ordered!


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			😂😂😂

Too late. I've already bought the frame for my canvas I ordered!
		
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🤣🤣🤣 enjoy it son, you can get the " top of the league this week" trophy off Everton, they won't need it again this season 😃😃


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## Orikoru (Nov 7, 2020)

Plus they've played a game more than most teams so their name should have an asterisk after it.


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## Fish (Nov 7, 2020)

The higher you climb, the bigger the fall 😜


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2020)

Great work from Everton - allowing Man Utd to win so that OGS keeps hold of the managers job 👍👍👏👏


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## Stuart_C (Nov 7, 2020)

Fernandes was the difference today, they've missed him the last few weeks😉


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Fernandes was the difference today, they've missed him the last few weeks😉
		
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he almost got the full house today, motm, a goal, an assist, a yellow card and a penalty, utter shock the one he didnt get lol


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## Stuart_C (Nov 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			he almost got the full house today, motm, a goal, an assist, a yellow card and a penalty, utter shock the one he didnt get lol
		
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Yeah and guess who binned him from his fantasy team?? Yep....


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah and guess who binned him from his fantasy team?? Yep....
		
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trying hard not to 

in my fantasy side, in my fantasy draft side (after an attempted swap for Aubam failed  )


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## Slime (Nov 7, 2020)

Fernandes was just being Fernandes, absolutely superb.

Oh, and Maguire was an absolute rock today, seriously, he really was.


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## Orikoru (Nov 7, 2020)

It's beyond a joke. I already disagree with the concept of drawing the lines on it - just let the ref view it on screen and make a decision - but to make matters worse they've drawn it in the wrong place coming out of his forearm! No ref on earth would look at this and say he was offside. It just beggars belief. They're killing the game bit by bit.


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 33436


It's beyond a joke. I already disagree with the concept of drawing the lines on it - just let the ref view it on screen and make a decision - *but to make matters worse they've drawn it in the wrong place coming out of his forearm*! No ref on earth would look at this and say he was offside. It just beggars belief. They're killing the game bit by bit.
		
Click to expand...

theyve drawn it to the top part of his arm, which is not now being treated as handball, hence its part of the body that can be offside

its utter guessing garbage but thats why theyve changed where they are drawing the line to


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## chrisd (Nov 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 33436


It's beyond a joke. I already disagree with the concept of drawing the lines on it - just let the ref view it on screen and make a decision - but to make matters worse they've drawn it in the wrong place coming out of his forearm! No ref on earth would look at this and say he was offside. It just beggars belief. They're killing the game bit by bit.
		
Click to expand...



Miles offside 😁


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## Orikoru (Nov 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			theyve drawn it to the top part of his arm, which is not now being treated as handball, hence its part of the body that can be offside

its utter guessing garbage but thats why theyve changed where they are drawing the line to
		
Click to expand...

I thought they said armpit now? FFS, so this incident is both the rules that they've totally bastardised rolled into one then. Offside and handball.


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## Fish (Nov 7, 2020)

What a joy Ziyech is to watch, what a left foot, a player of the season contender 💙


----------



## fundy (Nov 7, 2020)

Fish said:



			What a joy Ziyech is to watch, what a left foot, a player of the season contender 💙
		
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lol good player been excellent tonight, lol at the last comment


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2020)

Fish said:



			What a joy Ziyech is to watch, what a left foot, a *player of the season contender* 💙
		
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He is a good player but after three games 😂😂😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 7, 2020)

Clinical in the end by Chelsea. Glad Sheffield and Burnley are down there, it gives Fulham hope that we may be fighting against a single relegation place as I can't see either doing too much. Not expecting much at West Ham though


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## Stuart_C (Nov 7, 2020)

Fish said:



			What a joy Ziyech is to watch, what a left foot, a player of the season contender 💙
		
Click to expand...

After 3 games??🤣🤣

Serious levels of delusion here 😁

P.s. Fernandes has already won it 😝


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 33436


It's beyond a joke. I already disagree with the concept of drawing the lines on it - just let the ref view it on screen and make a decision - but to make matters worse they've drawn it in the wrong place coming out of his forearm! No ref on earth would look at this and say he was offside. It just beggars belief. They're killing the game bit by bit.
		
Click to expand...

That just proves they don’t know what they are doing.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			After 3 games??🤣🤣

Serious levels of delusion here 😁

P.s. Fernandes has already won it 😝
		
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I would go for Jota myself.


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## Slime (Nov 7, 2020)

Fish said:



			What a joy Ziyech is to watch, what a left foot, a player of the season contender 💙
		
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No, no. 
Bruno has that one wrapped up.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			After 3 games??🤣🤣

Serious levels of delusion here 😁

P.s. Fernandes has already won it 😝
		
Click to expand...

VVD got to get a sympathy vote🤷‍♂️😂
Hope his team mates are sleeping better now 😳😂😂


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I thought they said armpit now? FFS, so this incident is both the rules that they've totally bastardised rolled into one then. Offside and handball. 

Click to expand...

They changed it to "the sleeve" now.... It's ludicrous.

I'm looking forward to the first goal scored with the top of the arm.... I wonder if they will disallow it.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 7, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			They changed it to "the sleeve" now.... It's ludicrous.

I'm looking forward to the first goal scored with the top of the arm.... I wonder if they will disallow it.
		
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Changing the rules to suit VAR is baffling.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 7, 2020)

Well it took 92 minutes before the inevitable


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Well it took 92 minutes before the inevitable
		
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Lookman what a moron

I thought pen was defo but should have blown up before that corner was past the added time (I know it's minimum but still)

But what a terrible pen


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2020)

lol at trying the panenka at 1-0 down in the 96th minute


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## pendodave (Nov 7, 2020)

Was thinking that watching west ham should have a special place in the random irritations thread until Lookman had his 'hold my beer' moment...


----------



## fundy (Nov 7, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Was thinking that watching west ham should have a special place in the random irritations thread until Lookman had his 'hold my beer' moment...
		
Click to expand...


lookman got one in there for me thats for sure!


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol at trying the panenka at 1-0 down in the 96th minute
		
Click to expand...

Who does that! Maybe someone like Ronaldo, Messi or another super player 

Lookman?


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## Fade and Die (Nov 7, 2020)

Thought I had wasted 15 quid until the 90th min! 
2nd week running being on the wrong end of the softest of soft penalties but justice done this week.... That Pananka! What a plum!😂🤣😂


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## Orikoru (Nov 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol at trying the panenka at 1-0 down in the 96th minute
		
Click to expand...

Outrageously bad. Deep in injury time for a point you just leather it don't you? If he saves it he saves it, but just hit the target with a bit of conviction at least. He deserves to miss a few games for that.


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## pendodave (Nov 7, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Thought I had wasted 15 quid until the 90th min!
2nd week running being on the wrong end of the softest of soft penalties but justice done this week.... That Pananka! What a plum!😂🤣😂
		
Click to expand...

Pen was soft and unnecessary but, unlike last week, didn't leave a nasty taste in the mouth. Was just a bit of panicky forwards' defending


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Pen was soft and unnecessary but, unlike last week, didn't leave a nasty taste in the mouth. Was just a bit of panicky forwards' defending
		
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Should have scored before we did but Fulham defended well. Good keeping

My heart was in my mouth when ogbonna went off


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## Stuart_C (Nov 7, 2020)

West Ham made me sweat for my acca there 🤨

That penalty though, you'd wanna kill him if he was your team mate.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 7, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Pen was soft and unnecessary but, unlike last week, didn't leave a nasty taste in the mouth. Was just a bit of panicky forwards' defending
		
Click to expand...

Yes, your right...though It was a deserved win though on chances created, but the defending after we scored was a shambles.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Yes, your right...though It was a deserved win though on chances created, but the defending after we scored was a shambles.
		
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Benharmi looks promising aswell

Think he will support Haller well


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## Fade and Die (Nov 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Benharmi looks promising aswell

Think he will support Haller well
		
Click to expand...

Yes we need a player with a few tricks. Hopefully the assist will do his confidence the power of good.


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			West Ham made me sweat for my acca there 🤨

That penalty though, you'd wanna kill him if he was your team mate.
		
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on o1.5 goals at nice prices from the 85th minute he wasnt popular lol


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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 8, 2020)

That offside decision for pointing was hilarious.    Absolutely correct in accordance to the rules but what a mockery of them.   But this was always going to happen when you applied finite technology decisions to a sport like football.   It works in baseball (in/out), it works pretty well in cricket and rugby -  but too many grey areas in football.   You either have it and accept the decisions are to the letter of the rule, or you get rid of it and accept human error in the decisions.   But either way, everyone will carry on bitching and complaining regardless.


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## Orikoru (Nov 8, 2020)

This game has been painful. West Brom defending so deep, every single shot we have is blocked. For the last 6 years our problem has always been not being able to break down these stubborn teams. Used to rely on a bit of magic from Eriksen or something. If we score now it'll only be a penalty or a deflected speculative effort.

Edit: Or a flicked header. lol


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## pendodave (Nov 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			This game has been painful. West Brom defending so deep, every single shot we have is blocked. For the last 6 years our problem has always been not being able to break down these stubborn teams. Used to rely on a bit of magic from Eriksen or something. If we score now it'll only be a penalty or a deflected speculative effort.

Edit: Or a flicked header. lol
		
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Lol. I was going to suggest some professional falling over....


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2020)

What is Jamie Carragher bleating on about. His arm was quite clearly out like he was trying to block the cross


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## hairball_89 (Nov 8, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			What is Jamie Carragher bleating on about. His arm was quite clearly out like he was trying to block the cross 

Click to expand...

Where else is his arm supposed to be? he's running, then jumps in the air to block the cross. As soon as the replay show it's hit his arm it's always gonna be given but I don't understand what he's supposed to do?


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			What is Jamie Carragher bleating on about. His arm was quite clearly out like he was trying to block the cross 

Click to expand...


urgh gonna need a shower but find myself agreeing with Carragher lol. like the one in the wolves game earlier, defenders got no prayer, time for them all to have their arms surgically removed lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			West Ham made me sweat for my acca there 🤨

That penalty though, you'd wanna kill him if he was your team mate.
		
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I want to kill him


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## adam6177 (Nov 8, 2020)

I'll be interested to see what other pundits say.... But for me this is another reason that ex players should be in var positions.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2020)

Not clinical enough from Liverpool .
We have had good chances but chosen the wrong ball.
They need to shoot more when they get in the box and get the rebound ,not try walking the ball in.
Lucky to go in level. KDB ?
Handball rule is a joke now.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 8, 2020)

I'm just so not into football - VAR has killed it for me. That and just the way the authorities almost make players act in a away we all despise. Sterling stays on his feet and doesn't get the decision. Mane is fouled and goes down like he's been hit by a sniper - why wouldn't he though...

I just can't get emotional about even a game as big as this


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## 2blue (Nov 8, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			What is Jamie Carragher bleating on about. His arm was quite clearly out like he was trying to block the cross 

Click to expand...

Yes, PL defenders are going to have to become accustomed to defending with their arms tucked in just as they've been doing for sometime in mainland Europe. Awkward but will allow more crosses to happen.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 8, 2020)

PS Kevin not been on it from the start for me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2020)

Going by their earlier decision in the Wolves game then they are going to give it as a penalty - even though neither shoold be


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2020)

2blue said:



			Yes, PL defenders are going to have to become accustomed to defending with their arms tucked in just as they've been doing for sometime in mainland Europe. Awkward but will allow more crosses to happen.
		
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That’s your balance though.
You can’t run with your arms behind your back.
There was always going to be a time when players aimed for defenders arms that time has come imo.
You use your arms as balance points to turn ,they have changed the rule to suit VAR when it should be the other way around.
It’s spoiling the game.


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			PS Kevin not been on it from the start for me.
		
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been Citys best player for me, the only one consistently finding space and causing Liverpool problems


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Where else is his arm supposed to be? he's running, then jumps in the air to block the cross. As soon as the replay show it's hit his arm it's always gonna be given but I don't understand what he's supposed to do?
		
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By his side?
The ball is miles away, there's no danger of the attacker going past him so why jump with your arm out when he has time to tuck it away. He knows exactly what he's doing imo, trying to be cute and get away with it when in reality he's being stupid.
Penalty all day long for me.


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## 2blue (Nov 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s your balance though.
You can’t run with your arms behind your back.
There was always going to be a time when players aimed for defenders arms that time has come imo.
You use your arms as balance points to turn ,they have changed the rule to suit VAR when it should be the other way around.
It’s spoiling the game.
		
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That reasoning will always be used to excuse arms unintentionally blocking crosses but is unsupported when you see how they've adapted to it in mainland Europe.....  Seems to be the way it's being refereed internationally so best we get used to it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2020)

2blue said:



			That reasoning will always be used to excuse arms unintentionally blocking crosses but is unsupported when you see how they've adapted to it in mainland Europe.....  Seems to be the way it's being refereed internationally so best we get used to it.
		
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Similar to when officials clamped down on players jumping for headers using their arms swinging for leverage. Old centre forwards said it was impossible to do, now it is pretty much only Andy Carroll that gives the occasional elbow in the face. 

Players will either adapt or give away more penalties. The majority will adapt, better than giving goals away.


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## Reemul (Nov 8, 2020)

2blue said:



			That reasoning will always be used to excuse arms unintentionally blocking crosses but is unsupported when you see how they've adapted to it in mainland Europe.....  Seems to be the way it's being refereed internationally so best we get used to it.
		
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I like that word "Unintentionally", it answers it perfectly imo.


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2020)

Liverpool running out of gas a bit here, there for the taking


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## 2blue (Nov 8, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I like that word "Unintentionally", it answers it perfectly imo.
		
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Well...... perhaps 'unintentionally' written in this way, explains it more clearly......  after all who can decide what was 'intentional' & what wasn't...  & there lies the problem IMO.


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## adam6177 (Nov 8, 2020)

I think a draw was a fair result, but I'm surprised Liverpool didn't get a 2nd goal.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2020)

2blue said:



			That reasoning will always be used to excuse arms unintentionally blocking crosses but is unsupported when you see how they've adapted to it in mainland Europe.....  Seems to be the way it's being refereed internationally so best we get used to it.
		
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Do you think it’s made football better in Europe.
You can’t run without moving your arms.
Well you can but it will be like Penguins playing.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 8, 2020)

rubbish second half. Got what we deserved really. it is a little worrying that we only seem to be able to sustain a reasonable tempo for half an hour or so. 

But, arguably the hardest away of the season done and a point picked up so can't be too annoyed. Just hoping Trent picked up enough of a knock to keep him out of England duty and he gets 2 weeks off!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2020)

It was a fair result - we had chances but just fell away second half , KDB is such a good player. In the end happy with a point


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## 2blue (Nov 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do you think it’s made football better in Europe.
You can’t run without moving your arms.
Well you can but it will be like Penguins playing.
		
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Can't see evidence of how it has stopped players from running using their arms. However, it has in Europe & will in the PL prevent players, intentionally or 'unintentionally' blocking crosses with their arms...  players will have to adapt & that can only be a good thing as that's what they will face in international football.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 8, 2020)

Enjoyable enough for the neutral but never expected De Bruyne to miss that penalty as badly as that. Over 40 penalties already (and many more for handball than before) and think this "natural position" is killing the game


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do you think it’s made football better in Europe.
You can’t run without moving your arms.
Well you can but it will be like Penguins playing.
		
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You can run normally but the moment the attacker looks to shoot or cross then you pull your arms back. If would soon become second nature.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 8, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm just so not into football - VAR has killed it for me. That and just the way the authorities almost make players act in a away we all despise. Sterling stays on his feet and doesn't get the decision. Mane is fouled and goes down like he's been hit by a sniper - why wouldn't he though...

I just can't get emotional about even a game as big as this 

Click to expand...


I realised last night that I celebrate differently now...when we score its just a loud YESSS! then a minute wait to see if the goal is "good". 

What a way to celebrate a 91st minute winner!


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## Slime (Nov 8, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			rubbish second half. Got what we deserved really. it is a little worrying that we only seem to be able to sustain a reasonable tempo for half an hour or so.

But,* arguably the hardest away of the season done* and a point picked up so can't be too annoyed. Just hoping Trent picked up enough of a knock to keep him out of England duty and he gets 2 weeks off!
		
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Hey, you haven't been to OLd Trafford yet, ....................................... oh, hang on a minute.
Yeah, I think you're right.
Good point, well made.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Going by their earlier decision in the Wolves game then they are going to give it as a penalty - even though neither shoold be
		
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This is wrong and dangerous. 

Just because wrong decisions have been given and are being accepted, it’s not right for wrong decisions to be given with VAR. 

Listening to Neville-who usually nails this type of stuff- saying it’s pen because of what got given to Leicester today is shocking.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a fair result - we had chances but just fell away second half , KDB is such a good player. In the end happy with a point
		
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Fair assessment 
But thought we had them worried but wasted several good opportunities first half with the wrong ball.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2020)

2blue said:



			Can't see evidence of how it has stopped players from running using their arms. However, it has in Europe & will in the PL prevent players, intentionally or 'unintentionally' blocking crosses with their arms...  players will have to adapt & that can only be a good thing as that's what they will face in international football.
		
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The problem with that logic is .
You use your arms to run but how do you know when he’s going to cross the ball so you can fold them in.
It’s ridiculous imo.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You can run normally but the moment the attacker looks to shoot or cross then you pull your arms back. If would soon become second nature.
		
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That’s fair enough if you are square on to them.
Can you imagine trying to catch Sterling without using your arms they help you balance.
Then just when you think he is going to cross ,he dummies you and leaves you for dead because you have your arms behind your back.


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			The problem with that logic is .
You use your arms to run but how do you know when he’s going to cross the ball so you can fold them in.
It’s ridiculous imo.
		
Click to expand...

But if you know you can't put your arm out then you either jump with them by your sides, or don't jump at all, it really is that simple. 
Trying to do it the "old way" because it seemed fair at the time doesn't cut it now imo. Gomez cocked up massively, end of, luckily Dr Bruyne cocked up even more with the pen miss 🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			But if you know you can't put your arm out then you either jump with them by your sides, or don't jump at all, it really is that simple.
Trying to do it the "old way" because it seemed fair at the time doesn't cut it now imo. Gomez cocked up massively, end of, luckily Dr Bruyne cocked up even more with the pen miss 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but I just don’t agree.
They change the laws every week now to suit VAR .
It’s a joke.
Can you imagine the 100mts final at the Olympics if you can’t use your arms.
It’s unnatural and your guessing when he’s going to cross the ball.


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## pendodave (Nov 8, 2020)

Never mind the existential problems confronting top flight football in a crazy dystopian future...
Can we not just laugh at arsenal????


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			PS Kevin not been on it from the start for me.
		
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A couple of the City forums I go one, a few fans think there’s summat wrong with KDB.

Thought City we’re gonna get battered, but Liverpool looked knackered at the end.

Re both penalties, I thought they were both pens. Liverpool’s nailed on, Citys, just because the rules are rammel.


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry but I just don’t agree.
They change the laws every week now to suit VAR .
It’s a joke.
Can you imagine the 100mts final at the Olympics if you can’t use your arms.
It’s unnatural and your guessing when he’s going to cross the ball.
		
Click to expand...

We may not like the rules but they are what they are, you can't stick your arm out, if you do you run the risk of giving away a pen.
And he knew he was going to cross the ball, there was a clue when he pulled his right foot back and Gomez started to jump in the air 🤣


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## Fish (Nov 8, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Never mind the existential problems confronting top flight football in a crazy dystopian future...

Can we not just laugh at arsenal????
		
Click to expand...

Should have been 4 😜


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## AmandaJR (Nov 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			A couple of the City forums I go one, a few fans think there’s summat wrong with KDB.

Thought City we’re gonna get battered, but Liverpool looked knackered at the end.

Re both penalties, I thought they were both pens. Liverpool’s nailed on, Citys, just because the rules are rammel.
		
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Has he had Covid? Just doesn't look to have the same energy levels and continual athleticism we're used to seeing...post viral maybe...


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Has he had Covid? Just doesn't look to have the same energy levels and continual athleticism we're used to seeing...post viral maybe...
		
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not sure, but he don’t seem himself.


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2020)

I hear arsenal are asking for a recount at the Emirates 

scale of the task becomes more apparent as square pegs in round holes fails again 

this tweet sums up probably the biggest issue:

*The xG Philosophy* @xGPhilosophy
5m

Aubameyang’s non-penalty xG this season: Fulham - 0.31 West Ham - 0.04 Liverpool - 0.00 Sheffield Utd - 0.05 Man City - 0.00 Leicester - 0.12 Man Utd - 0.06 Aston Villa - 0.00 𝗧𝗼𝘁𝗮𝗹: 𝟬.𝟱𝟴(𝘅𝗚)


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			not sure, but he don’t seem himself.
		
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would be asking far more questions re sterling than KDB on what ive seen so far this year, de bruynes biggest problem is its pretty much all on his shoulders


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Has he had Covid? Just doesn't look to have the same energy levels and continual athleticism we're used to seeing...post viral maybe...
		
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If that’s true he really should not be playing for his own good.
He wasn’t his usual self.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			We may not like the rules but they are what they are, you can't stick your arm out, if you do you run the risk of giving away a pen.
And he knew he was going to cross the ball, there was a clue when he pulled his right foot back and Gomez started to jump in the air 🤣
		
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Gomez is already turning his body .
I just don’t agree , but you have your own views that’s fine.


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## GG26 (Nov 8, 2020)

Foxes top of the league .  

I must admit that after their form from December through to the end of last season, I couldn't see them doing much in 2020/21.  Brendan seems to have got a good team spirit and we've been without Perriera, Ndidi, Soyenchu, Castagne for a while, plus Evans, Maddison and Vardy have had to sit out a few as well.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You can run normally but the moment the attacker looks to shoot or cross then you pull your arms back. If would soon become second nature.
		
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But refs are giving pens when there is no reaction time or the player is only one yard away, like the Dier/Caroll one.

They need to go back to what was/wasnt being given approx 5 years ago. If your making your hands a target or you have them raised a pen can be given, dpending upon reaction time, speed of cross etc.

We're now asking defenders to put their hands in an unnatural position and still giving penalties. Its madness, and I dont care what they do in Europe.

There are far to many penalties being given this season, the creating of a good goal is being undermined by pens getting handed out like confetti.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 9, 2020)

Wonder how many times the league leaders have changed this season.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 9, 2020)

UP THE VILLLLAAAAAAAAAA


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 9, 2020)

Think Neville has been on the falling down water https://www.skysports.com/football/...-have-the-firepower-to-win-the-premier-league


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

No game tonight, so have a quiz question instead:

Name the 5 players who have won the World Cup, Champions League and Premier League:


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			No game tonight, so have a quiz question instead:

Name the 5 players who have won the World Cup, Champions League and Premier League:
		
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Thierry Henry the easy one 

Gerard Pique

ok now im stuck


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			No game tonight, so have a quiz question instead:

Name the 5 players who have won the World Cup, Champions League and Premier League:
		
Click to expand...

Pedro 

Henry


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			Thierry Henry the easy one 

Gerard Pique

ok now im stuck
		
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Did UTD win the CL with Barthez ?


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pedro

Henry
		
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wow Pedro, id have been here till xmas


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			wow Pedro, id have been here till xmas 

Click to expand...

Always my first go to with these type of quizzes - Spanish and played for Barce and Chelsea - there is another Spanish player but can’t think of his name 😩


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did UTD win the CL with Barthez ?
		
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surely 99 was schmeical and 2008 van der saar


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			surely 99 was schmeical and 2008 van der saar
		
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Ok not him then - Petit ?


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## roblad82 (Nov 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did UTD win the CL with Barthez ?
		
Click to expand...

No but I think he might have won it with Marseille


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok not him then - Petit ?
		
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nah didnt win CL (thanks for reminding me lol)


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2020)

roblad82 said:



			No but I think he might have won it with Marseille
		
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ok never knew that


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			Thierry Henry the easy one 

Gerard Pique

ok now im stuck
		
Click to expand...

yes to both


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

Correct answers so far:

Henry
Pique
Pedro
Barthez


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

roblad82 said:



			No but I think he might have won it with Marseille
		
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Yes, in 93


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

roblad82 said:



			No but I think he might have won it with Marseille
		
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well that’s a great shout 

The last player is Spanish ? Brazillian? Played at Chelsea and Barce as well - just can’t remember his name


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## roblad82 (Nov 9, 2020)

Wouldn’t have got Pique I wouldn’t have thought he’d ever played enough games to be counted as winning the PL.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 9, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Correct answers so far:

Henry
Pique
Pedro
Barthez
		
Click to expand...

I’ve seen this quiz before. I went for more french players. If someone gets number 5, they’ve Googled Or heard it before.


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			well that’s a great shout

The last player is Spanish ? Brazillian? Played at Chelsea and Barce as well - just can’t remember his name
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately his name is the crucial bit you need


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			No game tonight, so have a quiz question instead:

Name the 5 players who have won the World Cup, Champions League and Premier League:
		
Click to expand...

how many more would there be if it wasnt for the mad german (and henrys miss) in 2006


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

roblad82 said:



			Wouldn’t have got Pique I wouldn’t have thought he’d ever played enough games to be counted as winning the PL.
		
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9 league games in 2007-2008


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

roblad82 said:



			Wouldn’t have got Pique I wouldn’t have thought he’d ever played enough games to be counted as winning the PL.
		
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I would also never have got Pique for the same reason 


SteveW86 said:



			Unfortunately his name is the crucial bit you need 

Click to expand...

I can picture him as well - scored in the final


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			how many more would there be if it wasnt for the mad german (and henrys miss) in 2006 

Click to expand...

Interestingly, the remaining player had a big part to play in that game too


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			how many more would there be if it wasnt for the mad german (and henrys miss) in 2006 

Click to expand...

Who scored for Barce in that final ?


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who scored for Barce in that final ?
		
Click to expand...

Eto got one of them, second ones been erased from my memory lol


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## roblad82 (Nov 9, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Yes, in 93
		
Click to expand...




SteveW86 said:



			9 league games in 2007-2008
		
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I had a season ticket(still do for my sins) at MUFC that season as well. Only game I can remember him for was being bullied away at Bolton lol


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who scored for Barce in that final ?
		
Click to expand...

Was also his first and only goal for Barca


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			Eto got one of them, second ones been erased from my memory lol
		
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No it was the other goal - the one from the tight angle ? Right back ?


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Was also his first and only goal for Barca
		
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yeah he was a full back but no idea of his name, happy for it to be erased lol


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

all the correct info, just not the crucial bit


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			all the correct info, just not the crucial bit
		
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Belletti !!!!


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2020)

This has depressed me, was it really nearly 15 years ago that we were able to compete at the top table 

Next we'll be losing to sides like Villa


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Belletti !!!!
		
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I'll trust you didnt give in to Google, but yes thats correct


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I'll trust you didnt give in to Google, but yes thats correct
		
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No Google - just use the alphabet to jog your mine


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## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No Google - just use the alphabet to jog your mine
		
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seeing those names makes me feel some sympathy for Fabregas, somehow didnt win it in his 3 years at Barca


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			seeing those names makes me feel some sympathy for Fabregas, somehow didnt win it in his 3 years at Barca
		
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And then you see players like Traore , Bertrand etc have won one


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## hairball_89 (Nov 10, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And then you see players like Traore , Bertrand etc have won one
		
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And the mighty Igor Biscan!

Great quiz question though. The first 4 are all getable when you think about it but Beletti is a monster shout. Would never have remembered him in a million years!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2020)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/54897833

🤬🤬🤬🤬


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## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/54897833

🤬🤬🤬🤬
		
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Doesn't look good.  We're in a predicament whereby if we by another foreign CB in Jan we'll have to get rid of one. 

We'll just have to win the league with a back 4 of Milner,Henderson, Matip and Robbo😁


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Doesn't look good.  We're in a predicament whereby if we by another foreign CB in Jan we'll have to get rid of one.

We'll just have to win the league with a back 4 of Milner,Henderson, Matip and Robbo😁
		
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surely you’d offload Gomez then, isn’t he the main injury prone player?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			surely you’d offload Gomez then, isn’t he the main injury prone player?
		
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When he's injured?? 

I wouldn't say he's injury prone, he's been unlucky that the injuries he has had has tended to be bad ones.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 11, 2020)

Yet more proof international football should be scrapped ATM 

Global pandamic yeah cool let all our players meet up and mix with others 

Champs league tiny bit different as it's the same team bubble in theory 

But you litterally are mixing players from all over the world ...


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## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			surely you’d offload Gomez then, isn’t he the main injury prone player?
		
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When he's injured??  Gomez is English so it doesn't matter, we're full with our foreign contingent though

I wouldn't say he's injury prone, he's been unlucky that the injuries he has had has tended to be bad ones.


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			When he's injured??  Gomez is English so it doesn't matter, we're full with our foreign contingent though

I wouldn't say he's injury prone, he's been unlucky that the injuries he has had has tended to be bad ones.
		
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Ok, you simply stated 1 in 1 out, I wasn’t aware of your quota, so you need to offload a Johnny if you bring 1 in. 

Still, unlucky or not, some players, however good their potential can be held back by injuries, and Gomez seems to fit that Bill, so, English or not, it would seem that the injuries he’s had, according to the news, classes him as being ‘prone’!


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## Papas1982 (Nov 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Yet more proof international football should be scrapped ATM

Global pandamic yeah cool let all our players meet up and mix with others

Champs league tiny bit different as it's the same team bubble in theory

But you litterally are mixing players from all over the world ...
		
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Football is continuing because its worth so much money first and foremost. Not for the greater good.

Fa's earn how much from intl games and major comps? They're not gonna give that up if they can help it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2020)

Gomez has been unlucky - been injured twice now on international duty , most of his injuries are broken bones with the ankle being broken a number of times due to collisions - same with his ACL


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## fundy (Nov 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Doesn't look good.  We're in a predicament whereby if we by another foreign CB in Jan we'll have to get rid of one.

We'll just have to win the league with a back 4 of Milner,Henderson, Matip and Robbo😁
		
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still looks like an upgrade on ours


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## hairball_89 (Nov 11, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/54897833

🤬🤬🤬🤬
		
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Might it be churlish to suggest it was a certain Mr Sterling attempting to be a "big man"?!

Not sure we'll rush to bring anyone in though depending on how serious this injury is. No (left sided especially) central defender is going to want to come in knowing as soon as Virgil is fit again they'll drop down the pecking order. Gomez has been a monster alongside Virgil, and 2 freak incidents and they're both out? Couldn't write it...!


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## PieMan (Nov 11, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gomez has been unlucky - been injured twice now on international duty , most of his injuries are broken bones with the ankle being broken a number of times due to collisions - same with his ACL
		
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Given that tackling is more or less prohibited now it's surprising his ankles are dodgy! Unless he's kicking the dog at home and doing the damage there!! 😉 😂 😂


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## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			Ok, you simply stated 1 in 1 out, I wasn’t aware of your quota, so you need to offload a Johnny if you bring 1 in.

Still, unlucky or not, some players, however good their potential can be held back by injuries, and Gomez seems to fit that Bill, so, English or not, it would seem that the injuries he’s had, according to the news, classes him as being ‘prone’!
		
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Sorry fishy I thought my initial post was obvious by stating foreign.

Anyway, I disagree that he's injury prone. 3 bad injuries is hardly injury  prone IMO but if you and the media want to label him as that then thats your opinion.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



*Might it be churlish to suggest it was a certain Mr Sterling attempting to be a "big man"?!*

Not sure we'll rush to bring anyone in though depending on how serious this injury is. No (left sided especially) central defender is going to want to come in knowing as soon as Virgil is fit again they'll drop down the pecking order. Gomez has been a monster alongside Virgil, and 2 freak incidents and they're both out? Couldn't write it...!
		
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It was Pickford 😉


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			Ok, you simply stated 1 in 1 out, I wasn’t aware of your quota, so you need to offload a Johnny if you bring 1 in.

Still, unlucky or not, some players, however good their potential can be held back by injuries, and Gomez seems to fit that Bill, so, English or not, it would seem that the injuries he’s had, according to the news, classes him as being ‘prone’!
		
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I'd say Matip is the definition of injury prone, a bit like Daniel Sturridge. He is someone who is out lots of times for little injuries, pulls,strains etc

Gomez is major-injury prone, especially when in the Ingurland camp.


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## Orikoru (Nov 13, 2020)

You guys heard about Greenwood?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...rrested-rape-false-imprisonment-b1722271.html

Strong rumours that Greenwood is the guy. If true it's starting to look like another promising career down the pan just like Ravel Morrison.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You guys heard about Greenwood?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...rrested-rape-false-imprisonment-b1722271.html

Strong rumours that Greenwood is the guy. If true it's starting to look like another promising career down the pan just like Ravel Morrison.
		
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Certainly something odd about him being completely dropped by England (and u21’s) whilst Foden has been been back in the squad since they were droppEd.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 13, 2020)

Just like to say well done to Scotland.


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## Kellfire (Nov 13, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Certainly something odd about him being completely dropped by England (and u21’s) whilst Foden has been been back in the squad since they were droppEd.
		
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 There are stories out there that he’s been suicidal since the death of one of his friends, too.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You guys heard about Greenwood?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...rrested-rape-false-imprisonment-b1722271.html

Strong rumours that Greenwood is the guy. If true it's starting to look like another promising career down the pan just like Ravel Morrison.
		
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Unfounded rumours ATM

There is also talk his friend recently killed himself and it's hit him hard ..


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## Papas1982 (Nov 13, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			There are stories out there that he’s been suicidal since the death of one of his friends, too.
		
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Fair enough. I haven’t looked into it at all. So the first story that could explain the absence was what I just saw from Orikoru. 

Hopefully with all the stuff about men’s mental health being highlighted atm, he will get support Irrespective of the other news.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 13, 2020)

It's amazing how things work 

Liverpool last season got very lucky with injuries , key players not all missing together . Much like when the foxes won the league ..

However this year wow how unlucky can they be. Gomez out.
Vvd out
TAA out

Now Salah testing postive for covid


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## Scoobiesnax (Nov 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's amazing how things work

Liverpool last season got very lucky with injuries , key players not all missing together . Much like when the foxes won the league ..

However this year wow how unlucky can they be. Gomez out.
Vvd out
TAA out

Now Salah testing postive for covid
		
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As a Liverpool fan this season should now be nul and voided!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 13, 2020)

Not the best display of social distancing I’ve seen. (If true of course)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327272309137281025


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 13, 2020)

Chin hammock isn’t good.
He really should know better.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's amazing how things work

Liverpool last season got very lucky with injuries , key players not all missing together . Much like when the foxes won the league ..

However this year wow how unlucky can they be. Gomez out.
Vvd out
TAA out

Now Salah testing postive for covid
		
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Lucky with injures last season ?

Last season at times we had 

Allison , Matip , TAA , Fabinho , Mane , Salah , Henderson out injured - the media narrative was we were lucky with injuries when it clearly wasn’t the case ( same with the VAR nonsense )


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## Slime (Nov 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You guys heard about Greenwood?
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...rrested-rape-false-imprisonment-b1722271.html
*Strong rumours *that Greenwood is the guy. If true it's starting to look like another promising career down the pan just like Ravel Morrison.
		
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pauldj42 said:



			Not the best display of social distancing I’ve seen. *(If true of course)*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327272309137281025

Click to expand...


And this is why I hate social media.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 13, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lucky with injures last season ?

Last season at times we had

Allison , Matip , TAA , Fabinho , Mane , Salah , Henderson out injured - the media narrative was we were lucky with injuries when it clearly wasn’t the case ( same with the VAR nonsense )

View attachment 33529

Click to expand...

As stated. Not out together though

That's why it's a squad game but now you have both first choice central defenders out. Plus your first choice right back.

You will notice that chart has city with little injuries but I'm sure they felt their central defender crisis a lot 

Of your 34 injuries how many were key players together 

Let's say 3 starters together ..or 2 for more than 3 games


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 13, 2020)

Slime said:



			And this is why I hate social media.
		
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Get over yourself! I put that as a bit of banter with the Lpool fans!

Nobody forces you to read it!


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## 4LEX (Nov 13, 2020)

The key players in the Liverpool side only missed a small number of games relative to the whole season. Allison at the start was the only really 'major' injury. But who really cares injuries are part of football and some seasons are good, some bad. 

Even with the injuries, I think Liverpool will still win the title based on what I've seen from them and Man City. Pep really looks burnt out, his intense style has taken a toll on the players, they're dropping stupid points in the same manner as last season and have a weakened midfield and attack. Once Thiago gets fit and settled and with Jota really upgrading the attacking options, they'll easily patch the defence until January and sign an experienced centre back or two to see them through.


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## Slime (Nov 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Get over yourself! I put that as a bit of banter with the Lpool fans!

Nobody forces you to read it!
		
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I don't read it, but that's how rumours spread as it's often used maliciously.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 13, 2020)

Slime said:



			I don't read it, but that's how rumours spread as it's often used maliciously.
		
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You mean similar to below? Unless of course you’ve spoken to OGS personally and you haven’t believed everything you’ve read on social media etc aren’t you possibly spreading rumours/lies?

Wasn’t Woodward’s house and family threatened by disgruntled United fans in the recent past?



Slime said:



			Total lack of support by the Glazers and Woodward. OGS wanted Sancho and the club gave him Cavani.
Man United, as a football club, are an absolute joke.
		
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## fundy (Nov 13, 2020)

Confirmed that PPV has been binned with the latest tv schedule released


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## Kellfire (Nov 13, 2020)

It isn’t Greenwood. It’s someone in his 20s.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			As stated. Not out together though

That's why it's a squad game but now you have both first choice central defenders out. Plus your first choice right back.

You will notice that chart has city with little injuries but I'm sure they felt their central defender crisis a lot

Of your 34 injuries how many were key players together

Let's say 3 starters together ..or 2 for more than 3 games
		
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I'd say one of the best goalkeepers in the world being out for a quarter of the season is fairly big!

Either way, we have to deal with it. Both VVD and Gomez' injuries are freak injuries that you don't "normally" see. And Gomez & TAA are the sort of injuries that will happen across the course of the season to most teams. Mo is annoying, but nothing more. In reality it's only the Leicester game he's missing as he was unlikely gonna play the Atalanta game anyway.

I'm not convinced we'll do much business in January. See how Matip is holding up (when he's fit, he's quality, IMO - was brilliant against City) & see how the midfield is shaping up without Fabinho as he'll clearly be playing CB more than in the middle. With Williams and Phillips getting the European games and league games respectively, as seems to be the way, maybe they'll look to bring someone in, but I'm not convinced. We've had the need for January reinforcements before - albeit not with as big a hole to fill! - and not gone for it.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 13, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			I'd say one of the best goalkeepers in the world being out for a quarter of the season is fairly big!

Either way, we have to deal with it. Both VVD and Gomez' injuries are freak injuries that you don't "normally" see. And Gomez & TAA are the sort of injuries that will happen across the course of the season to most teams. Mo is annoying, but nothing more. In reality it's only the Leicester game he's missing as he was unlikely gonna play the Atalanta game anyway.

I'm not convinced we'll do much business in January. See how Matip is holding up (when he's fit, he's quality, IMO - was brilliant against City) & see how the midfield is shaping up without Fabinho as he'll clearly be playing CB more than in the middle. With Williams and Phillips getting the European games and league games respectively, as seems to be the way, maybe they'll look to bring someone in, but I'm not convinced. We've had the need for January reinforcements before - albeit not with as big a hole to fill! - and not gone for it.
		
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Whilst Allison missed 11 games how many did vvd miss? 1 wasn't it? And Salah 1? Where as now you had Allison out but vvd is also out for the entire season .. that's much worse . Also add Gomez on top.. and fabinho whilst out last year this year he would be needed to cover vvd in this kind of situation so even plan f is gone


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 13, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Either way, we have to deal with it. Both VVD and *Gomez'* injuries are freak injuries that you don't "normally" see. And *Gomez* & TAA are the sort of injuries that will happen across the course of the season to most teams.
		
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I'm assuming that there's a typo in there for one of the names purely because it can't be both a freak injury and the sort of injury that will happen across the course of the season to most teams. Is the second Gomez meant to be a different name?


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## Slime (Nov 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You mean similar to below? Unless of course you’ve spoken to OGS personally and you haven’t believed everything you’ve read on social media etc aren’t you possibly spreading rumours/lies?

Wasn’t Woodward’s house and family threatened by disgruntled United fans in the recent past?
		
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What rumours/lies am I supposed to have spread?


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## hairball_89 (Nov 14, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm assuming that there's a typo in there for one of the names purely because it can't be both a freak injury and the sort of injury that will happen across the course of the season to most teams. Is the second Gomez meant to be a different name?
		
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No, it was deliberate. But perhaps badly worded.

In a normal season Gomez and Trent's injuries don't happen. Or certainly don't happen this early into them, at least. Gomez was, by all accounts, on his own, nobody around him and is tendon snapped. That's a freak injury in my book. Just a freak injury caused by the player playing too much football without suitable recovery time. Whereas Van Dijk's was clearly an impact injury, but also a freak injury.

I guess I mean freak, in relation to the length of time they're out *as well as* the thing that caused the injury. Everybody expected teams to have players out for 2 weeks here, a month there, this season. But to have 2 CBs out for the rest of the season (all but, in Joe's case) is mad.


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## fundy (Nov 15, 2020)

So sad to see Ray Clemence has passed away  One of the genuinely good guys


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## Stuart_C (Nov 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			So sad to see Ray Clemence has passed away  One of the genuinely good guys
		
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Very sad news, one of our highly decorated former players.

RIP Clem


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## Slime (Nov 15, 2020)

Sad news indeed.
I just wonder how many England caps he'd have got if he wasn't constantly flip flopping with Shilton.
He was a great 'keeper, that's for sure.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 15, 2020)

Slime said:



			Sad news indeed.
I just wonder how many England caps he'd have got if he wasn't constantly flip flopping with Shilton.
He was a great 'keeper, that's for sure.
		
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And the flip side of that being how many caps Shilton would have ended up with if it hadn't been for Clemence. I imagine that having two truly world class goalkeepers to choose from is a nice dilemma for an international manager to have. I'm sure that Gareth Southgate would be over the moon if he was presented with that situation.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 15, 2020)

Henderson subbed at halftime due to injury.

This has gotta be some sick joke surely....


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## hairball_89 (Nov 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Henderson subbed at halftime due to injury.

This has gotta be some sick joke surely....
		
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You have to laugh. There's literally nothing else to do.

Madness.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Henderson subbed at halftime due to injury.

This has gotta be some sick joke surely....
		
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Robertson done a hamstring too....


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## Stuart_C (Nov 16, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			You have to laugh. There's literally nothing else to do.

Madness.
		
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If only we could play Everton every week, we'd be able to play the kids 😃😃


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## Stuart_C (Nov 16, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Robertson done a hamstring too....
		
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Yeah I seen that though i hope thats just noise, he mentioned it right after the penalty win the other night.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If only we could play Everton every week, we'd be able to play the kids 😃😃
		
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Rent free


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## Stuart_C (Nov 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Rent free

Click to expand...

🎣🎣


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 18, 2020)

Busy old time in football again. Salah has tested positive again 

The FA is creating a dementia taskforce https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54988097 I think the link with heading balls and dementia has been proven and so anything that prevents damage especially in junior football and training has to be a good step although it is a fundamental skill in the game and so has to remain part and parcel of any game

Fir me though the biggest shocker had to be the Germany defeat in Spain. Low must be on thin ice. https://www.skysports.com/football/...take-aim-at-joachim-low-after-historic-defeat If that had been England, then every paper would be calling for Southgate to go. The thing is Germany haven't played well for a while and of course there is only one man in the frame...... Herr Klopp. However I don't think he'll go at any price at this point in time and the only option I could see would be if they gave him the national job part-time and he could do both but doubt they'd be that radical


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## fundy (Nov 18, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Busy old time in football again. Salah has tested positive again

The FA is creating a dementia taskforce https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54988097 I think the link with heading balls and dementia has been proven and so anything that prevents damage especially in junior football and training has to be a good step although it is a fundamental skill in the game and so has to remain part and parcel of any game

Fir me though the biggest shocker had to be the Germany defeat in Spain. Low must be on thin ice. https://www.skysports.com/football/...take-aim-at-joachim-low-after-historic-defeat If that had been England, then every paper would be calling for Southgate to go. The thing is Germany haven't played well for a while and of course *there is only one man in the frame...... Herr Klopp.* However I don't think he'll go at any price at this point in time and the only option I could see would be if they gave him the national job part-time and he could do both but doubt they'd be that radical
		
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Is there? Thought Ralf Rangnick was the most likely replacement currently, especially as hes available


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## pauljames87 (Nov 18, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Busy old time in football again. Salah has tested positive again

The FA is creating a dementia taskforce https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54988097 I think the link with heading balls and dementia has been proven and so anything that prevents damage especially in junior football and training has to be a good step although it is a fundamental skill in the game and so has to remain part and parcel of any game

Fir me though the biggest shocker had to be the Germany defeat in Spain. Low must be on thin ice. https://www.skysports.com/football/...take-aim-at-joachim-low-after-historic-defeat If that had been England, then every paper would be calling for Southgate to go. The thing is Germany haven't played well for a while and of course there is only one man in the frame...... Herr Klopp. However I don't think he'll go at any price at this point in time and the only option I could see would be if they gave him the national job part-time and he could do both but doubt they'd be that radical
		
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We have had yarmenlko test postive .. not as important as Salah is to Liverpool but for me again highlights until this pandemic levels off all international football should be put on hold

Even if salahs was from his brothers wedding the point still stands it's unnecessary travel


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## fundy (Nov 18, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			We have had yarmenlko test postive .. not as important as Salah is to Liverpool but for me again highlights until this pandemic levels off all international football should be put on hold

Even if salahs was from his brothers wedding the point still stands it's unnecessary travel
		
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Elneny for us

Havertz for Chelsea

Doherty for Spurs

pretty sure every club has one or two


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## pauljames87 (Nov 18, 2020)

fundy said:



			Elneny for us

Havertz for Chelsea

Doherty for Spurs

pretty sure every club has one or two
		
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All from international football isn't it? We had soucek aswell

Why should the premier League release their assets (who they pay the wages of) to the national teams at this time .. 

I actually believe it's wrong. 

By all means resume domestic football for moral of the country and boosts the economy 

However international football..no thank you.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 18, 2020)

fundy said:



			Is there? Thought Ralf Rangnick was the most likely replacement currently, especially as hes available
		
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Depends what media you read I guess. I think you may have a point and his managerial statistics do look good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralf_Rangnick#Director_of_Football and as you say he is available. The point is when do the German FA think enough is enough. I am guessing with the Euro's next year they may look for some continuation until then but a poor tournament will surely be the end


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## fundy (Nov 18, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Depends what media you read I guess. I think you may have a point and his managerial statistics do look good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralf_Rangnick#Director_of_Football and as you say he is available. The point is when do the German FA think enough is enough. I am guessing with the Euro's next year they may look for some continuation until then but a poor tournament will surely be the end
		
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expect it will depend on Louw, be surprised if they get rid of him before the Euros unless he jumps, Rangnicks availability may be the one thing that might tip their hand though. think Louws contracted till the next world cup so cost of paying him off may well be a stumbling block too


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 18, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			All from international football isn't it? We had soucek aswell

Why should the premier League release their assets (who they pay the wages of) to the national teams at this time ..

I actually believe it's wrong.

By all means resume domestic football for moral of the country and boosts the economy

However international football..no thank you.
		
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Obviously other Countries must be slack with their testing, England players 100% negative and they’ve travelled.

Surely it’s also down to players taking some individual responsibility?

Plus no player is forced to play for their National Team and 99% see it as an honour, I can’t see any Club stopping their players representing their Country.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Obviously other Countries must be slack with their testing, England players 100% negative and they’ve travelled.

Surely it’s also down to players taking some individual responsibility?

Plus no player is forced to play for their National Team and 99% see it as an honour, I can’t see any Club stopping their players representing their Country.
		
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That's actually incorrect if a player refuses a call up their fa hold their playing rights and they can be refused to play 

We had it in the African cup of Nations 

Sahko refused to play and then couldn't play for us 

You can retire but it's more of a respect thing you can't overly ignore a call up


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 18, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			That's actually incorrect if a player refuses a call up their fa hold their playing rights and they can be refused to play

We had it in the African cup of Nations

Sahko refused to play and then couldn't play for us

You can retire but it's more of a respect thing you can't overly ignore a call up
		
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Sakho didn’t refuse to play, he/West Ham said he had a back injury and was unfit to travel, he then played for West Ham the same week, Senegal then complained to FIFA.

If a player doesn’t want to play for his Country he can just tell the manager “No thank you” when first asked and then wouldn’t need to retire in that case.

Obviously a player can’t pick n choose when to turn up, but I can’t see any manager keep picking a player who has no interest.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Sakho didn’t refuse to play, he/West Ham said he had a back injury and was unfit to travel, he then played for West Ham the same week, Senegal then complained to FIFA.

If a player doesn’t want to play for his Country he can just tell the manager “No thank you” when first asked and then wouldn’t need to retire in that case.

Obviously a player can’t pick n choose when to turn up, but I can’t see any manager keep picking a player who has no interest.
		
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Apologies I misquoted the refuse bit but a club can't refuse to release players

Sahko was odd one he wasn't fit to fly so we drove him down


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 18, 2020)

Dan James looking good for Wales tonight. Far better than I've seen him play for Man Utd.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 18, 2020)

This popped up when I fell into a YouTube black hole this evening. Pick a winner from the December 2006 goal of the month competition.....


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## Slime (Nov 18, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			This popped up when I fell into a YouTube black hole this evening. Pick a winner from the December 2006 goal of the month competition.....







Click to expand...

Paul Scholes.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 18, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			This popped up when I fell into a YouTube black hole this evening. Pick a winner from the December 2006 goal of the month competition.....







Click to expand...

Scholes .


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## Orikoru (Nov 19, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			This popped up when I fell into a YouTube black hole this evening. Pick a winner from the December 2006 goal of the month competition.....







Click to expand...

Scholesy for me! Unbelievable strike.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Obviously other Countries must be slack with their testing, England players 100% negative and they’ve travelled.

Surely it’s also down to players taking some individual responsibility?

Plus no player is forced to play for their National Team and 99% see it as an honour, I can’t see any Club stopping their players representing their Country.
		
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Sorry to return to this but the top bit about other countries I don't think holds true

It's just pure luck. 

My wife's school were patting themsleves on back for no covid cases only school in borough then week later 3 cases 

They could be best at testing but foden could head a ball that Salah had handled etc 

Small risk but could happen


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Sorry to return to this but the top bit about other countries I don't think holds true

It's just pure luck.

My wife's school were patting themsleves on back for no covid cases only school in borough then week later 3 cases

They could be best at testing but foden could head a ball that Salah had handled etc

Small risk but could happen
		
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Then if it’s pure luck, your original point about international fixtures is irrelevant.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Then if it’s pure luck, your original point about international fixtures is irrelevant.
		
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Whilst it's pure luck , it's still risk. Every extra exposure is a risk isn't it?

So why are we risk mixing players from Spain, italy , France , Belgium etc so they can possibly spread the virus to another team who might bring it back to another country 

It's irresponsible

I feel the same about the champions League but less so because the group of players are more controlled. You have 2 bubbles .. where as international football is a squad of what 26 players . How many different countries and teams are they from?

The premier League / football league at least it's just within one country and its less of a risk 

Those two teams who play are 2 bubbles and if they spread between each other would just be between those teams 

International football has much more risk 

Look at the Czech national team a month ago. They had so many players test postive they had to send them home and get almost s complete new team 

It's just a massive risk for not a lot of real reason.

Is euro 2020 (now 2021) going to go ahead? It's held all over Europe rather than one country so would be another covid spread nightmare .. so maybe it's a risk too far

Don't think how anyone can logically think international football is not risky


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## Kellfire (Nov 19, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			This popped up when I fell into a YouTube black hole this evening. Pick a winner from the December 2006 goal of the month competition.....







Click to expand...

Ooofffft. Three contenders for me - Essien for the power generated from the ground, Huddlestone for the technique to keep it low and Scholes for that X Factor of smashing the bar and going in. But all of those expect RVP’s would be a worthy winner.

I see no reason to disagree with the original winner though - Scholes. 😀


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Whilst it's pure luck , it's still risk. Every extra exposure is a risk isn't it?

So why are we risk mixing players from Spain, italy , France , Belgium etc so they can possibly spread the virus to another team who might bring it back to another country

It's irresponsible

I feel the same about the champions League but less so because the group of players are more controlled. You have 2 bubbles .. where as international football is a squad of what 26 players . How many different countries and teams are they from?

The premier League / football league at least it's just within one country and its less of a risk

Those two teams who play are 2 bubbles and if they spread between each other would just be between those teams

International football has much more risk

Look at the Czech national team a month ago. They had so many players test postive they had to send them home and get almost s complete new team

It's just a massive risk for not a lot of real reason.

Is euro 2020 (now 2021) going to go ahead? It's held all over Europe rather than one country so would be another covid spread nightmare .. so maybe it's a risk too far

Don't think how anyone can logically think international football is not risky
		
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Life is risky at the moment! Shall we sit indoors until this stops?

The Football authorities (like every other profession) are doing everything they can to keep the players safe.

We, in this Country, have some of the worst figures in the world, if anything everyone else should ban people from travelling from the UK.

Friendlies? Absolutely ban them! But organised top level sport has been deemed OK to continue with precautions taken.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Life is risky at the moment! Shall we sit indoors until this stops?

The Football authorities (like every other profession) are doing everything they can to keep the players safe.

We, in this Country, have some of the worst figures in the world, if anything everyone else should ban people from travelling from the UK.

Friendlies? Absolutely ban them! But organised top level sport has been deemed OK to continue with precautions taken.
		
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The football authorities are doing everything they can to protect their own interests.

Otherwise they wouldn't keep lobbying for fans to return this season.

Fans yes are important to football but right now just no. 40,000 football fans mixing on trains buses etc to get there.. 

Only reason for the fans to return is money.


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## Orikoru (Nov 19, 2020)

I think it's completely stupid that they didn't cancel the Nation's League. Nobody cares about it or even knows what it's for. It's basically friendlies with some imagined competitive element added. It is the definition of unnecessary travel and the amount of people getting positive tests off the back of it just proves how stupid it was.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I think it's completely stupid that they didn't cancel the Nation's League. Nobody cares about it or even knows what it's for. It's basically friendlies with some imagined competitive element added. It is the definition of unnecessary travel and the amount of people getting positive tests off the back of it just proves how stupid it was.
		
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And surely without fans , ticket sales, boost to local economy by fans traveling it's not actually worth it financially?


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## Orikoru (Nov 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			And surely without fans , ticket sales, boost to local economy by fans traveling it's not actually worth it financially?
		
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Utterly pointless, plus add in the fixture congestion domestically and how clubs are worried about injuries. An overwhelming list of negatives with not a single positive really.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Utterly pointless, plus add in the fixture congestion domestically and how clubs are worried about injuries. An overwhelming list of negatives with not a single positive really.
		
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Well Declan rice's first goal for England and west ham's first player to score since Matthew upson in 2010 aha about only postive for me

But still it's pointless 

Those 2 weeks could be used to get the games in for national level without fixture build up


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 19, 2020)

It’s not just the Nations League though! World Cup qualifiers in South America, Asia and Africa have taken place during this period, add in the millions of Euros the Countries get from the Nations League plus promotion up and down the ladder it’s more than just about the PL, some of the smaller Countries need it.

Personally I believe All and I mean All football should of stopped until fans could return, but at the same time we have to stop being so parochial when it comes to International Football, the World doesn’t revolve around England and the PL.


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## Orikoru (Nov 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s not just the Nations League though! World Cup qualifiers in South America, Asia and Africa have taken place during this period, add in the millions of Euros the Countries get from the Nations League plus promotion up and down the ladder it’s more than just about the PL, some of the smaller Countries need it.

Personally I believe All and I mean All football should of stopped until fans could return, but at the same time we have to stop being so parochial when it comes to International Football, the World doesn’t revolve around England and the PL.
		
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I think domestic football is far easier to continue with than internationals since you're not flying people here there and everywhere around the world. Qualifiers for proper competitions probably did have to take place. I'm just saying that friendlies, and the Nations League which is basically glorified friendlies, were very far from necessary and should have been cancelled at this time. 

How much money are smaller countries making from Nations League with no fans?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I think domestic football is far easier to continue with than internationals since you're not flying people here there and everywhere around the world. Qualifiers for proper competitions probably did have to take place. I'm just saying that friendlies, and the Nations League which is basically glorified friendlies, were very far from necessary and should have been cancelled at this time.

How much money are smaller countries making from Nations League with no fans?
		
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They are getting money through TV rights, sponsorship and if they get promoted to higher leagues (like Wales have) they’ll play bigger Teams next year which increases revenue.

I don’t like it, but the PL wouldn’t play matches unless all International fixtures were stopped, the friendlies are only played during International breaks, so without them there would no Football at all.


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## Orikoru (Nov 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			They are getting money through TV rights, sponsorship and if they get promoted to higher leagues (like Wales have) they’ll play bigger Teams next year which increases revenue.

I don’t like it, but the PL wouldn’t play matches unless all International fixtures were stopped, the friendlies are only played during International breaks, so without them there would no Football at all.
		
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That's not true is it? The Premier League has frequently continued at the same time as the African Nations being on, for example.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That's not true is it? The Premier League has frequently continued at the same time as the African Nations being on, for example.
		
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That’s one Tournament! Africa or South America don’t stop for the Euros, a Continental specific trophy is not classed as a International break by FIFA.

There were World Cup qualifiers going on the past 2 weeks, ie, the period we were discussing!


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 19, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			This popped up when I fell into a YouTube black hole this evening. Pick a winner from the December 2006 goal of the month competition.....







Click to expand...

https://www.givemesport.com/1557398...f-the-month-competition-was-outrageously-good


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## Orikoru (Nov 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s one Tournament! Africa or South America don’t stop for the Euros, a Continental specific trophy is not classed as a International break by FIFA.

There were World Cup qualifiers going on the past 2 weeks, ie, the period we were discussing!
		
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Well by the same token they don't need to stop the Premier League if a couple of games like Estonia v Slovenia happen to be on. The odd team might lose one player for a week, so be it. Either way we are talking about cutting down unnecessary international travel here, fixture congestion was only one additional factor. The fact is playing a friendly is unnecessary.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well by the same token they don't need to stop the Premier League if a couple of games like Estonia v Slovenia happen to be on. The odd team might lose one player for a week, so be it. Either way we are talking about cutting down unnecessary international travel here, fixture congestion was only one additional factor. The fact is playing a friendly is unnecessary.
		
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You’re not getting it! FIFA have tried to help the Football Authorities by sanctioning what is or isn’t an International Break, ie, periods when all members are to play qualifiers or a friendly if already qualified etc,

If Brazil suddenly decided to play Spain in Saudi Arabia next week in a friendly it would be almost be impossible to get FIFA to sanction it and give the 2 Countries the power to demand players.

If we don’t have friendlies how are managers/players etc meant to get a chance see or prove themselves if we have already qualified for a tournament.

England only played a friendly last week as they could play 3 games during the International break and only had to play 2, Scotland played 3 qualifiers.

Southgate still had the players, why not test them?


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## Piece (Nov 19, 2020)

Pep's new 2 year deal surely seals Messi's transfer to Manchester Citeh. Bring yer brolly Lionel!


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re not getting it! FIFA have tried to help the Football Authorities by sanctioning what is or isn’t an International Break, ie, periods when all members are to play qualifiers or a friendly if already qualified etc,

If Brazil suddenly decided to play Spain in Saudi Arabia next week in a friendly it would be almost be impossible to get FIFA to sanction it and give the 2 Countries the power to demand players.

If we don’t have friendlies how are managers/players etc meant to get a chance see or prove themselves if we have already qualified for a tournament.

England only played a friendly last week as they could play 3 games during the International break and only had to play 2, Scotland played 3 qualifiers.

Southgate still had the players, why not test them?
		
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Because we have a condensed season.

Dont get me wrong other things domestically should also have happened.

Scrap the league cup for 1 year (and compensate FL clubs), or optional to play for teams that are in Europe who will play an extra 6 games than the rest between oct-December (just this year, mind).

No FA cup replays this year.

No international friendlies until 2022.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Because we have a condensed season.

Dont get me wrong other things domestically should also have happened.

Scrap the league cup for 1 year (and compensate FL clubs), or optional to play for teams that are in Europe who will play an extra 6 games than the rest between oct-December (just this year, mind).

No FA cup replays this year.

No international friendlies until 2022.
		
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I’d agree with the majority of that for a normal season never mind this one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 19, 2020)

So Prob the sport with the most amount of money in it with very very rich clubs and owners are now not happy because the government hand out isnt as much as Rugby are getting


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’d agree with the majority of that for a normal season never mind this one.

Click to expand...

Yep, but tell Everton its optional, not mandatory.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2020)

Well said.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329765132973596672


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2020)

How bad is Soccer Saturday now- whilst individually the previous lot were not everyone’s cup of tea they worked as a group and clearly had a lot of natural banter etc - the new lot with the likes of Hendrie and Johnson are just poor and you can tell Stelling is deflated by it all


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 21, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How bad is Soccer Saturday now- whilst individually the previous lot were not everyone’s cup of tea they worked as a group and clearly had a lot of natural banter etc - the new lot with the likes of Hendrie and Johnson are just poor and you can tell Stelling is deflated by it all
		
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Too many big changes at once rarely work. One game at a time really doesn't help either.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

It looks like they've the made changes to fit in as opposed to making changes to  improve the show and the quality of analysis IMO.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2020)

Villa v Brighton game really good to watch .
Should be 4-4 but some bad finishing and good goalkeeping.


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## Fish (Nov 21, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Villa v Brighton game really good to watch .
Should be 4-4 but some bad finishing and good goalkeeping.
		
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Late drama, VAR, here we go...


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2020)

Fish said:



			Late drama, VAR, here we go...
		
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Var a joke spoilt a good game.
Elbow to the throat = nothing .
That’s not a foul on Grealish he’s just collapsing in front of him.
Shocking from Oliver again he only had two decisions but think he was right about the pen.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2020)

Sterling not fit for England duty yet ok for City 🤔

looks like Maureen was right 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55018838


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## Fish (Nov 21, 2020)

No penalty, correct to overturn his decision, I’d even book the Villa player for simulation as the touch was minimal.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2020)

Fish said:



			I penalty, correct to overturn his decision, I’d even book the Villa player for simulation as the touch was minimal.
		
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What I don’t get is even if you get the ball, it’s a foul if you follow through and get the man.
But Villas keeper did exactly that on Maupay in the first half

Peter Walton what a joke he is.
Not a clear error. It is an error as he got the ball but Oliver didn’t see that in real time.


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

Fish said:



			No penalty, correct to overturn his decision, I’d even book the Villa player for simulation as the touch was minimal.
		
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Was a pen for me based on recent decisions where impact after the ball is being penalised , Id also have booked Trezeguet for his 5.8 effort. Arch the back, tuck the chin in and leap like a salmon

The big issue is the lack of consistency day in day out, week in week out


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2020)

Just watching Stones and Hart wrestling.
That used to be part of our training .
But one slight touch and they hit the deck in the game.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Was a pen for me based on recent decisions where impact after the ball is being penalised , Id also have booked Trezeguet for his 5.8 effort. Arch the back, tuck the chin in and leap like a salmon

The big issue is the lack of consistency day in day out, week in week out
		
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What about Villas keeper first half ?
Maupay one on one keeper gets the ball but followed through on striker outside the box.
That’s a red if those rules are strictly adhered to.
Your right about consistency there just isn’t any.


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			What about Villas keeper first half ?
Maupay one on one keeper gets the ball but followed through on striker outside the box.
That’s a red if those rules are strictly adhered to.
Your right about consistency there just isn’t any.
		
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if I was reffing Id send Maupay off after 5 mins most games 

Citys been working on their defending again i see


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			if I was reffing Id send Maupay off after 5 mins most games 

Citys been working on their defending again i see
		
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I was thinking that myself !
I have never seen a striker give so many fouls away, he just dosnt hold the ball up.

Think that’s the keeper , if he stays on his line he makes it difficult for Son.
But bad defending half asleep.


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## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How bad is Soccer Saturday now- whilst individually the previous lot were not everyone’s cup of tea they worked as a group and clearly had a lot of natural banter etc - the new lot with the likes of Hendrie and Johnson are just poor and you can tell Stelling is deflated by it all
		
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Apalling isn't it? 

Time to get Big Ron, Andy Gray, Keys and the boys back on a new Saturday show


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## AmandaJR (Nov 21, 2020)

I've got it - the solution to some of our woes with hand-ball and VAR...

Football shirts without sleeves. That'll teach em to keep their arms by their sides. 

No more ridiculous than what's happening week in week out at the moment


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 21, 2020)

Soccer Saturday is another show and I think a lot of Sky's coverage (darts etc) has gone the same way and it's about ticking the right boxes now rather than having a group of people that work together and spark off each other, with the risk that every now and then it may get close to a line


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## Fish (Nov 21, 2020)

City aren’t coming back from this now, they’re so disjointed and unorganized, what a difference from what we’ve seen them be capable of, they’re made Spurs look good, which takes some doing 😜

At this rate even Arsenal could beat them 😜


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 21, 2020)

I agree that City lack cohesion but Mourinho has set Spurs up not to be beat and only attack on the break. I think the position map of the Spurs players at half time showed how most were in their own half on average. Spurs always had a certain style and reputation for playing good football and while they are winning Mourinho has sucked a lot of creativity out of them


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## PieMan (Nov 21, 2020)

And that's why Jose is a far superior manager to Pep - they're better organised and know what they're doing....and I hate Tottenham!

Cannot believe Pep has spent about £500 million on defenders over the years - everyone he's bought are useless.

And all the talk is about buying Messi? Laughable.


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree that City lack cohesion but Mourinho has set Spurs up not to be beat and only attack on the break. I think the position map of the Spurs players at half time showed how most were in their own half on average. Spurs always had a certain style and reputation for playing good football and while they are winning Mourinho has sucked a lot of creativity out of them
		
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OK cant believe im going to argue for Spurs and/or Mourinho, let alone both but here goes

Spurs are playing some great football, scoring goals for fun, and have a genuine chance to win the league

Youre going to have to look for a very very long time to find a disappointed Spurs fan currently!


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

These types of games are what JM loves. Sets his teams up in a way to get results. At times its not pretty but that doesn't matter. Results matter.

Pep needs to learn from him, otherwise he'll not win a CL for as long as he stays with his pretty style of football.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

PieMan said:



			And that's why Jose is a far superior manager to Pep - they're better organised and know what they're doing....and I hate Tottenham!

*Cannot believe Pep has spent about £500 million on defenders over the years - everyone he's bought are useless.*

And all the talk is about buying Messi? Laughable.
		
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Yet never criticised for not improving all of those CB's hes ruined.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree that City lack cohesion but Mourinho has set Spurs up not to be beat and only attack on the break. I think the position map of the Spurs players at half time showed how most were in their own half on average. Spurs always had a certain style and reputation for playing good football and while they are winning Mourinho has sucked a lot of creativity out of them
		
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3pts mean a lot more than styles of play.


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## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			OK cant believe im going to argue for Spurs and/or Mourinho, let alone both but here goes

Spurs are playing some great football, scoring goals for fun, and have a genuine chance to win the league

Youre going to have to look for a very very long time to find a disappointed Spurs fan currently!
		
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The injuries at Liverpool have thrown the title wide open. Add to the mix the impact of empty grounds and it’s there to be won.

I’ve got a sneaky feeling for Leicester again. More great transfer business in the summer and a top manager. If they keep Vardy fit I would not bet against them.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 21, 2020)

1


PieMan said:



			And that's why Jose is a far superior manager to Pep - they're better organised and know what they're doing....and I hate Tottenham!

Cannot believe Pep has spent about £500 million on defenders over the years - everyone he's bought are useless.

*And all the talk is about buying Messi? Laughable*.
		
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I agree about Peps lack of consideration when it comes to defending, but, Messi would have papered over the cracks. 

So far this season City has conceded 11 and scored 10.

Over last 2 seasons City their goal difference has been close to +70. Just over a goal a game isnt too far wide of their usual standard defensively, Less than 2 goals for is very unusual.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			OK cant believe im going to argue for Spurs and/or Mourinho, let alone both but here goes

Spurs are playing some great football, scoring goals for fun, and have a genuine chance to win the league

*Youre going to have to look for a very very long time to find a disappointed Spurs fan currently!*

Click to expand...

Jensen will be along shortly 😄


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			The injuries at Liverpool have thrown the title wide open. Add to the mix the impact of empty grounds and it’s there to be won.

I’ve got a sneaky feeling for Leicester again. More great transfer business in the summer and a top manager. If they keep Vardy fit I would not bet against them.
		
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not sure its just the injuries? how many were missing when they lost 7-2 to Villa? very hard to follow up last season with another the same, but this definitely looks the most open its been for a very long time. as an arsenal fan, the big worry is the league winner is going to come from london and its not us


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			not sure its just the injuries? *how many were missing when they lost 7-2 to Villa?* very hard to follow up last season with another the same, but this definitely looks the most open its been for a very long time. as an arsenal fan, the big worry is the league winner is going to come from london and its not us
		
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Freak game and result, I doubt we'll see anything like that again this season from any teams. 

Get to Christmas and we'll see the pack going into the 2nd half of the season.

I think Spurs will be serious challengers though.


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Freak game and result, I doubt we'll see anything like that again this season from any teams.

Get to Christmas and we'll see the pack going into the 2nd half of the season.

I think Spurs will be serious challengers though.
		
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hardly a freak result, they did us 3-0 too 

seriously though, injuries not enough of an excuse so you pool fans can forget getting that card out already


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2020)

What an absolute Mourinho performance. Dier was outstanding at the back, best game I've ever seen from him. I do think Ederson is very overrated by a lot of people. I don't think he needs to run off his line like a lunatic on either goal, and he got nutmegged both times. But we're finally starting to see a more resilient defence which is what Jose is meant to bring you, took him a while though. Top of the league and we know Liverpool or Leicester will drop points.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			hardly a freak result, they did us 3-0 too 

seriously though, injuries not enough of an excuse so you pool fans can forget getting that card out already 

Click to expand...

😄😄

Injuries are part and parcel of the game and I certainly accept it and won't use it as an excuse but I also won't expect us to play at the same level with a patched up defence as we would with VVD,Trent,Mo etc. 

Last season some people were questioning how good we'd be without our main men, they've now got their wish 😉


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## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2020)

Pep's done well at City but has a blindspot and can't see past it. To me he looks burnt out and passionless, I can't believe he's signed a new two year deal. City are no better than last season, they're losing games in exactly the same manner. Dominating, wasteful and getting done on the counter. They're boring to watch and the oppsition have them figured out. The key issue is they've got no 30 goal striker now Aguero is past it and injury prone. They won't win the title.

Jose has done a remarkable job at Spurs, created a side of decent hard working players with the quality of Kane and Son to create the magic. Any egos have been crushed and he's back in his element. United were crazy to back the likes of Pogba and Martial over a proven world class manager that had won trophies and finished second. Two years on Pogba has been exposed for the clown he is and Martial has less goals this season than Harry Maguire despite playing every game as a striker  

Can't see Spurs lasting the distance but they'll go close next season. Liverpool even with injuries will win the title because of Klopp, their keeper, midfield and attack.


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## Piece (Nov 21, 2020)

It doesn't take Jose to work out how to beat City at the moment. City are poor where it counts, in either box. Too slow going forward and left exposed in numbers when they are countered. City could struggle to make top four at this rate 😉


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😄😄

Injuries are part and parcel of the game and I certainly accept it and won't use it as an excuse but I also won't expect us to play at the same level with a patched up defence as we would with* VVD,Trent,Mo *etc.

Last season some people were questioning how good we'd be without our main men, they've now got their wish 😉
		
Click to expand...


yep they all played when Villa got 7  maybe youll be better without them


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## PieMan (Nov 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			What an absolute Mourinho performance. Dier was outstanding at the back, best game I've ever seen from him. I do think Ederson is very overrated by a lot of people. I don't think he needs to run off his line like a lunatic on either goal, and he got nutmegged both times. But we're finally starting to see a more resilient defence which is what Jose is meant to bring you, took him a while though. Top of the league and we know Liverpool or Leicester will drop points.
		
Click to expand...

If City had a half decent striker on the pitch they'd have scored 3 or 4. Spurs defensively aren't great at all, but Jose had them better organised than Pep did today.

When your best player - a striker - is making crucial blocks and tackles back in defence then you're actually in a bit of trouble; Kane has done that on a number of occasions this season.

Badically take Kane and Son out of that Spurs team and there's not too much there to worry anyone.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			yep they all played when Villa got 7  maybe youll be better without them 

Click to expand...

You're worse than my tart.......

😄😄


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Pep's done well at City but has a blindspot and can't see past it. To me he looks burnt out and passionless, I can't believe he's signed a new two year deal. City are no better than last season, they're losing games in exactly the same manner. Dominating, wasteful and getting done on the counter. They're boring to watch and the oppsition have them figured out. The key issue is they've got no 30 goal striker now Aguero is past it and injury prone. They won't win the title.
		
Click to expand...




Piece said:



			It doesn't take Jose to work out how to beat City at the moment. City are poor where it counts, in either box. Too slow going forward and left exposed in numbers when they are countered. City could struggle to make top four at this rate 😉
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I certainly don't think Jesus is good enough. He's a reasonable back-up, but nowhere near Aguero's quality. That does make a big difference. Don't get me wrong, he scores a few goals, but is he consistent enough against the bigger sides? Good enough for a title-winning team? I don't think so. They look a totally different proposition with Aguero in there.


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You're worse than my tart.......

😄😄
		
Click to expand...


ill take that as the compliment that its clearly meant as 

thought KDB spoke well there


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2020)

PieMan said:



			If City had a half decent striker on the pitch they'd have scored 3 or 4. Spurs defensively aren't great at all, but Jose had them better organised than Pep did today.

When your best player - a striker - is making crucial blocks and tackles back in defence then you're actually in a bit of trouble; Kane has done that on a number of occasions this season.

*Badically take Kane and Son out of that Spurs team and there's not too much there to worry anyone.*

Click to expand...

Surely true if you take anyone's best two players? 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not really on board with talk tipping us for the league. Not many league winners will play another top team and be on the wrong end of that much possession for an entire half and have that many people behind the ball. It doesn't matter if you get the results. But next week at Chelsea, I don't think they'll be as kind if we give them 70% possession to be honest. They look a better side than City at the moment.


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## Jensen (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			OK cant believe im going to argue for Spurs and/or Mourinho, let alone both but here goes

Spurs are playing some great football, scoring goals for fun, and have a genuine chance to win the league

Youre going to have to look for a very very long time to find a disappointed Spurs fan currently!
		
Click to expand...

Not to disappoint 😄

I’ve been brought up to a certain style of football, so I’m having difficulty buying into this.

Another adjective is “ Leopard and spots......


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## Papas1982 (Nov 21, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Not to disappoint 😄

I’ve been brought up to a certain style of football, so I’m having difficulty buying into this.

Another adjective is “ Leopard and spots......
		
Click to expand...

Oh oh, 

Someones played the West Ham card 😂😂


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## Jensen (Nov 21, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Oh oh,

Someones played the West Ham card 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Thankfully we’ve not had Allardyce, but you get my drift 🤔


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## Papas1982 (Nov 21, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Thankfully we’ve not had Allardyce, but you get my drift 🤔
		
Click to expand...

I guess it depends how old you are tbh. Im pretty much a PL time line fan and tbh, whilst you've played some OK footy during that period. You've been pretty dire too. 

I certainly wouldnt say you've had a set style for 30 years. Good for neutrals as there are always goals involved, but I'd take trophies with Jose over lost finals with Poch.... 

Of course you may end up with with no trophies and then I guess it's better to simply watch your team win more than you lose with a few goals involved.


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Not to disappoint 😄

I’ve been brought up to a certain style of football, so I’m having difficulty buying into this.

Another adjective is “ Leopard and spots......
		
Click to expand...

You'd rather we go all guns blazing up against City and get beat 4-1 like we have done quite a few times over the years? Not for me. It's not like we're scoring rubbish goals or just set pieces either, our attacking play is still great at times, we've just coupled it with some defensive resilience at long last. What's wrong with that?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			What an absolute Mourinho performance. Dier was outstanding at the back, best game I've ever seen from him. I do think Ederson is very overrated by a lot of people. I don't think he needs to run off his line like a lunatic on either goal, and he got nutmegged both times. But we're finally starting to see a more resilient defence which is what Jose is meant to bring you, took him a while though. Top of the league and we know Liverpool or Leicester will drop points.
		
Click to expand...

Genuine question .
Would the fans be happy to watch you defend like that at home if they were there.?
Or would they just be happy with the win?


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Genuine question .
Would the fans be happy to watch you defend like that at home if they were there.?
Or would they just be happy with the win?
		
Click to expand...

We beat City 2-0. Take that all day long. Personally I think fans who expect the team to try and play beautiful football and not get done over by a superior team are stupid. It's naive.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

There's more than one way to play the beautiful game. 

I'd accept playing like Stoke under Pulis if it meant winning the league. That said its great watching proper football every week so there's a balance to be had. 

Spurs wont play many games like that again this season. 

3pts off a rival that you'd expect t to lose against.  Enjoy it and look forward to the next game.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			We beat City 2-0. Take that all day long. Personally I think fans who expect the team to try and play beautiful football and not get done over by a superior team are stupid. It's naive.
		
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I wouldn’t say City are superior atm .
They look lost playing little triangles but nobody in the box.
And really open at the back.
But a wins a win .


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## Jensen (Nov 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You'd rather we go all guns blazing up against City and get beat 4-1 like we have done quite a few times over the years? Not for me. It's not like we're scoring rubbish goals or just set pieces either, our attacking play is still great at times, we've just coupled it with some defensive resilience at long last. What's wrong with that?
		
Click to expand...

Your penultimate sentence nearly sums it up “defensive resilience at long TIMES”


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## PieMan (Nov 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Surely true if you take anyone's best two players?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not really on board with talk tipping us for the league. Not many league winners will play another top team and be on the wrong end of that much possession for an entire half and have that many people behind the ball. It doesn't matter if you get the results. But next week at Chelsea, I don't think they'll be as kind if we give them 70% possession to be honest. They look a better side than City at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Not necessarily if the rest are half decent, but I'm not convinced by Spurs just yet.....just like I'm not convinced by my lot who were top of the table for about an hour before your lot 😉

Next week will see Jose play exactly the same and it will be a draw - both forward lines pretty good; both defences a bit suspect still.


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Not to disappoint 😄

I’ve been brought up to a certain style of football, so I’m having difficulty buying into this.

Another adjective is “ Leopard and spots......
		
Click to expand...

Youve scored 21 goals in 9 games and are top of the league, you ever get the feeling youre asking a bit too much for side that hasnt won a trophy for more than 10 years or the league for 50+ years? Yes its Jose, but hes hardly setting you up to park the bus week in week out currently. If youd rather watch attractive losing football then I guess thats your prerogative. 

Could be worse you could be watching dull losing football


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## JamesR (Nov 21, 2020)

Have we written Burnley off yet...Can they still win the league?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Have we written Burnley off yet...Can they still win the league?
		
Click to expand...

Not yet but Yernited definitely are out of it.


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## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			We beat City 2-0. Take that all day long. Personally I think fans who expect the team to try and play beautiful football and not get done over by a superior team are stupid. It's naive.
		
Click to expand...

It wasn't even backs to the wall. It was reel City in and hit them. Spurs weren't even troubled.

Floyd Mayweather won every fight doing the same thing.


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

Haaland looking the real deal again tonight for Dortmund. Gonna be a mighty scramble for him soon


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

Predictably a penalty at Old Trafford

less predictable is which end its at


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

and VAR to the bizarre rescue lol


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

and up the other end for the real penalty lol

RIP football


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## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Haaland looking the real deal again tonight for Dortmund. Gonna be a mighty scramble for him soon
		
Click to expand...

Could be at United for £18m if they hadn't taken a stance against agents....only to do a U turn and pay over the odds for a 33 year Cavani. Mental. More goals in one half than Martial has got in 10 games.

Ronaldo netting a double for Juve tonight, while Rooney is a washed up midfielder begging for a job at the bottom of the Championship.


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Could be at United for £18m if they hadn't taken a stance against agents....only to do a U turn and pay over the odds for a 33 year Cavani. Mental. More goals in one half than Martial has got in 10 games.

Ronaldo netting a double for Juve tonight, while Rooney is a washed up midfielder begging for a job at the bottom of the Championship.
		
Click to expand...


youll be adding a 0 to that price next year lol


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## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			youll be adding a 0 to that price next year lol
		
Click to expand...

Someone will come in before his release clause is activated in 2022. If they value Sancho at £108m then a young powerhouse striker who thrives on his own upfront will be worth a bit more. Not many of those around.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

Just seen the pen at OT. Disgusting.

Stick VAR in the bin and put it down as a bad job.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 21, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			1


I agree about Peps lack of consideration when it comes to defending, but, Messi would have papered over the cracks.

So far this season City has conceded 11 and scored 10.

Over last 2 seasons City their goal difference has been close to +70. Just over a goal a game isnt too far wide of their usual standard defensively, Less than 2 goals for is very unusual.
		
Click to expand...

I think Pep is going a bit too defensive, now.


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## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2020)

How was that not a pen to West Brom and then the Utd pen gets retaken. Someone wants to keep the gormless PE Teacher in a job. Two years on, £250m spent on a side that finished 2nd and relies on lucky pens to scrape into midtable. If he was at Real, Barca or Bayern he'd have been booted out of the ground before an interview


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			yep they all played when Villa got 7  maybe youll be better without them 

Click to expand...

Come on, it was a freak result. Vila were great that day, but 3 goals were big deflections. Just one of those days.

Didnt man U get beat 6-3 or something by Saints and 5-0 by Newcastle, think they still won the league that year.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 21, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Come on, it was a freak result. Vila were great that day, but 3 goals were big deflections. Just one of those days.

Didnt man U get beat 6-3 or something by Saints and 5-0 by Newcastle, think they still won the league that year.
		
Click to expand...

And we lost 9 nil last year and topped the league within A year


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 21, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			And we lost 9 nil last year and topped the league within A year 

Click to expand...

See, there you go.

We beat Palace 9-0, a few months later they knocked us out the cup in the semis by playing big mad Wimbledon football, kicked us off the park..........

That last bit may not be true.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just seen the pen at OT. Disgusting.

Stick VAR in the bin and put it down as a bad job.
		
Click to expand...

And thats why I made Fernandes my premier league captain.


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## Slime (Nov 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			and VAR to the bizarre rescue lol
		
Click to expand...

Because it wasn't a penalty.



fundy said:



			and up the other end for the real penalty lol
RIP football
		
Click to expand...

Because it was a penalty.


Why do so many people struggle with the rules?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

Slime said:



			Because it wasn't a penalty.



Because it was a penalty.


*Why do so many people struggle with the rules?*

Click to expand...

I know, you'd expect professional referees to know the rules wouldn't you? 🙄🙄

*Only to to use pitch side monitors for "clear and obvious" errors*. WBA'S pen wasn't a clear and obvious error so why is he checking the screen.

*Review all footage from start of attack to when the pen is given.* Foul by Fred leading to winning the ball and getting the pen.


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## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2020)

Slime said:



			Because it wasn't a penalty.



Because it was a penalty.


Why do so many people struggle with the rules?
		
Click to expand...

Mate, you've gotta be embarrassed with that though? Dogshit from start to finish while the manager you sacked, took a year out, got a new job and has taken his team top of the league? While you're midtable?


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## Slime (Nov 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I know, you'd expect professional referees to know the rules wouldn't you? 🙄🙄

*Only to to use pitch side monitors for "clear and obvious" errors*. WBA'S pen wasn't a clear and obvious error so why is he checking the screen.

*Review all footage from start of attack to when the pen is given.* Foul by Fred leading to winning the ball and getting the pen.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the 'clear and obvious' ideal has never been used by VAR from day 1.

If all footage was reviewed the games would last for ever.


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## Slime (Nov 21, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Mate, you've gotta be embarrassed with that though? Dogshit from start to finish while the manager you sacked, took a year out, got a new job and has taken his team top of the league? While you're midtable?
		
Click to expand...

Despite it being a poor performance, I'd never regret seeing the back of Mourinho, never.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

Slime said:



			Unfortunately, the 'clear and obvious' ideal has never been used by VAR from day 1.

If all footage was reviewed the games would last for ever.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree, the pitch side monitor was an ornament for 16months!!

Assuming you're right it still doesn't make tonight's decisions correct.

You've posted about people on here not knowing the rules, it seems the professional referees don't know them either.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2020)

Borrowed from twitter 😂

Referee David Coote made the worst refereeing decision of the season so far - not penalising Pickford in the derby. And in this #MUNWBA game, the second worst. A record like that he’ll be drafted into the Tory cabinet on Monday morning.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 21, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Pep's done well at City ...
		
Click to expand...

Honestly, has he? I think he's done what was expected. 

And at the moment he's not doing anywhere near enough. He's *constantly* spoken about as the best manager in the world - right now, his players can't walk the league with their eyes closed and they need this management. 

Spurs played them brilliantly. But city at their best walk them off the park. Can't see where the direction is for city atm. For me.


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Disagree, the pitch side monitor was an ornament for 16months!!

Assuming you're right it still doesn't make tonight's decisions correct.

*You've posted about people on here not knowing the rules, it seems the professional referees don't know them either.*

Click to expand...

I've got to be honest, they really are bloody confusing at times.


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## smange (Nov 22, 2020)

Although first and foremost I am a fan of Dunfermline Athletic I have massive leanings towards united due to family (my mothers from Manchester) and I do watch every single united match and yes I’m normally biased but those two decisions tonight were embarrassing!! 

Having given West Brom the penalty how on earth can he overturn it after watching the replay? Definite contact and not a “clear and obvious mistake” which is supposedly VARs tag line then at the other end if that’s handball then we may as well stop playing football!! What are players supposed to do with their arms? 

It’s getting beyond a joke the amount of “handball” decisions given against players who are in a completely natural position but a ball is played at pace against an arm.

I have no issue with the penalty being retaken as that is and always was the rule about a keeper being off his line when ball is struck but he was also way off his line for the retake so why not make it be taken again or is this another one that’s given in the attacking teams favour despite a rule being broken? 

Now maybe I’m old school when it comes to football but I want to see a good tough match with the best or luckiest team on the day coming out on top but as it is at the highest (most money involved) levels VAR is destroying football as we know it and I’m so glad I can watch Dunfermline without worrying about the farce of VAR!!


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## 4LEX (Nov 22, 2020)

Slime said:



			Despite it being a poor performance, I'd never regret seeing the back of Mourinho, never.
		
Click to expand...

If he had been given the power to bomb Pogba and Martial out you'd have a title by now.


hairball_89 said:



			Honestly, has he? I think he's done what was expected.

And at the moment he's not doing anywhere near enough. He's *constantly* spoken about as the best manager in the world - right now, his players can't walk the league with their eyes closed and they need this management.

Spurs played them brilliantly. But city at their best walk them off the park. Can't see where the direction is for city atm. For me.
		
Click to expand...

Well the last few years have been a big failure. One Kompany screamer away from 1 title in 5 years and no CL success.

But two titles playing amazing football and breaking goal and point records tells a different story. The truth is probably in the middle. Great manager, trophies won and complacency creeping it. Vast amounts wasted to fix the problems and stuck in nowhereness. I love football and Man City are one player from being the best team in the world. Put Kane or a proper number 9 who can play a bit and no one would touch them.

But Pep would rather sign another winger or midfielder.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			And thats why I made Fernandes my premier league captain.
		
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I took him out for Salah lol


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## adam6177 (Nov 22, 2020)

Just caught up on MOTD and I can only assume that David Coote is trying to get sacked/demoted/the limelight..... He can't be that incompetent surely.


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2020)

4LEX said:



			If he had been given the power to bomb Pogba and Martial out you'd have a title by now.
		
Click to expand...

None of United's managers have had any power since the Glazers took over.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2020)

Slime said:



			I've got to be honest, they really are bloody confusing at times.
		
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It’s the rules that have been changed for “ clarity” that are causing the most problems.
Handball
Offside.
What’s a good tackle these days.
Even the refs don’t know.
Absolute shambles.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

Slime said:



			None of United's managers have had any power since the Glazers took over.  

Click to expand...

Glazers have been owners since 2005 is it ?

was it 5 titles and and CL in 8 years ? 

Maybe the focus should be away from the owners and at the managers , transfers and players that have arrived since 2013 

Nice and easy to blame owners but a lot of money has been spent , a lot of players have arrived


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Glazers have been owners since 2005 is it ?

was it 5 titles and and CL in 8 years ?

Maybe the focus should be away from the owners and at the managers , transfers and players that have arrived since 2013

Nice and easy to blame owners but a lot of money has been spent , a lot of players have arrived
		
Click to expand...

Exactly! Too many believe what they read on the internet or in the press!


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## Tashyboy (Nov 22, 2020)

4LEX said:



*It wasn't even backs to the wall. It was reel City in and hit them. Spurs weren't even troubled.*

Floyd Mayweather won every fight doing the same thing.
		
Click to expand...

Below are the stats from yesterday game, they are typical of every game I have seen at City since Pep has taken over. The big difference is shots. 22 of which only 5 were on target. That’s less than 25%. Yet Spurs had 4 and 50% were on target. If you count the disallowed Spurs goal. Even better.
For all the goals that City score they never really analyse the goals they don’t score. ( Merson did yesterday on Sky). There in lies City’s problem, scoring goals against the better teams. Every time City play Mourinhos teams they sit back and soak up. It is predictable and gets results For Mourinho. It is a results based job and Spurs and other teams deserved it. If City do not sort out the problem of sticking the ball in the net they will not qualify for the Champs league next year.

Team

Spurs      Man City

Possession
Home 34%% Away 66%
Shots
Home 4 Away 22

Shots on Target

Home 2 Away 5

Corners 
Home 0 Away 10


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Below are the stats from yesterday game, they are typical of every game I have seen at City since Pep has taken over. The big difference is shots. 22 of which only 5 were on target. That’s less than 25%. Yet Spurs had 4 and 50% were on target. If you count the disallowed Spurs goal. Even better.
For all the goals that City score they never really analyse the goals they don’t score. ( Merson did yesterday on Sky). There in lies City’s problem, scoring goals against the better teams. Every time City play Mourinhos teams they sit back and soak up. It is predictable and gets results For Mourinho. It is a results based job and Spurs and other teams deserved it. If City do not sort out the problem of sticking the ball in the net they will not qualify for the Champs league next year.

Team

Spurs      Man City

Possession
Home 34%% Away 66%
Shots
Home 4 Away 22

Shots on Target

Home 2 Away 5

Corners
Home 0 Away 10
		
Click to expand...

I agree with what you say .
But in a game where you have most of the ball and just can’t score you should NOT be losing.
You should at least get a draw, which is not a bad result away at a main rival club.
City are wide open at the back and you were lucky it wasn’t more.


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## Kellfire (Nov 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Exactly! Too many believe what they read on the internet or in the press!
		
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Where do you get your information if not the internet or the press?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2020)

I appreciate this could still bite me but could we play Fulham every week?

Not a chance in hell that they will stay up playing like this.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I appreciate this could still bite me but could we play Fulham every week?

Not a chance in hell that they will stay up playing like this.
		
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After we played them last week and they parked the bus and Everton haven't been as good recently I didn't captain DCL .. I am most sad lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			After we played them last week and they parked the bus and Everton haven't been as good recently I didn't captain DCL .. I am most sad lol
		
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I have DCL and Digne. One provides, the other scores 😁


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## Tashyboy (Nov 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree with what you say .
But in a game where you have most of the ball and just can’t score you should NOT be losing.
You should at least get a draw, which is not a bad result away at a main rival club.
City are wide open at the back and you were lucky it wasn’t more.
		
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I first saw the problem a good few years back when we played Juve in the champs league, be battered them and got beat 2-1. Our goal came from an OG. We drove back over woodhead pass wondering how the hell we lost that. More and more it became apparent we were not taking our chances. Primarily it was against the better teams. But of late it has become more and more of a problem. I don’t blame teams for sitting back at all. If you get beat 5-0 one season you sure as hell don’t want it to happen the following season. Teams play with five at the back and hit on the break. 
Remember when Fernandinho and other City players give away blatant fouls when teams are breaking away. I thought Kane was superb yesterday finding the space holding it up and getting others involved. He has gone from a superb goal scorer to a superb footballer.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Think they need to work on pens old Fulham
Jezz


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2020)

Blimey, Everton made hard work of that second half. We can't do Italian style close out a game so why try? We are far better when going forward, at least posing a threat. We invited Fulham into the game.

Fulham fans, why does Loftus cheek not start? He changed the game, everything second half went through him, he was your best player. Does he not do it when starting?


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Blimey, Everton made hard work of that second half. We can't do Italian style close out a game so why try? We are far better when going forward, at least posing a threat. We invited Fulham into the game.

Fulham fans, why does Loftus cheek not start? He changed the game, everything second half went through him, he was your best player. Does he not do it when starting?
		
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Isn't he another sicknote?


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Glazers have been owners since 2005 is it ?

was it 5 titles and and CL in 8 years ?

Maybe the focus should be away from the owners and at the managers , transfers and players that have arrived since 2013

Nice and easy to blame owners but a lot of money has been spent , a lot of players have arrived
		
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There is a distinct pattern that has emerged, certainly since SAF retired.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

Slime said:



			There is a distinct pattern that has emerged, certainly since SAF retired.
		
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yes - the club have hired poor managers not fit for purpose and spent millions on players for those managers who were unable to fit them into systems. Owners have allowed money to be spent.


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			yes - the club have hired poor managers not fit for purpose and spent millions on players for those managers who were unable to fit them into systems. Owners have allowed money to be spent.
		
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But not necessarily on the players the manager wants once Champions League football has been achieved.
They'll spend enough to ensure ECL football, then they tighten the purse strings.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

Slime said:



			But not necessarily on the players the manager wants once Champions League football has been achieved.
They'll spend enough to ensure ECL football, then they tighten the purse strings.
		
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So the managers aren’t getting players they want ? 

And I don’t blame the club for not spending over £100mil plus on a wide player .


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Delighted with that 

Really ground that result out much like against Fulham 

Felt we should have scored more but then they should have scored one for sure 

A win and a clean sheet can't beat that


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## AmandaJR (Nov 22, 2020)

Have Leeds forgotten to pay the meter?

Also - why are they all wearing bra tops under their shirts?


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## DanFST (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Have Leeds forgotten to pay the meter?

Also - why are they all wearing bra tops under their shirts?
		
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Gps and Biometric trackers.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 22, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Gps and Biometric trackers.
		
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I figured as much and guess their shirts are more see-through than most!


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I figured as much and guess their shirts are more see-through than most!
		
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you’ll go blind 😂


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## Dando (Nov 22, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Gps and Biometric trackers.
		
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I remember Adidas having a gps tracker in their boots.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Blimey, Everton made hard work of that second half. We can't do Italian style close out a game so why try? We are far better when going forward, at least posing a threat. We invited Fulham into the game.

Fulham fans, why does Loftus cheek not start? He changed the game, everything second half went through him, he was your best player. Does he not do it when starting?
		
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No idea. Has done well when he has played so don't know why he doesn't get more game time. Shocking first half performance that wouldn't have got the job done in the championship let alone the PL. Much better second half. No idea who takes the next penalty as we're running out of takers with any degree of confidence. I think Everton made us look better in the second half than we actually were. At least Sheffield United keep losing so as long as West Brom and Burnley do the same then happy days. Leicester and Man City away and then Fulham at home. What can possibly go wrong


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sterling not fit for England duty yet ok for City 🤔

looks like Maureen was right

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55018838

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He started on the bench🤷‍♂️😳🤦‍♂️😂😂😂😂


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2020)

That half was a hard watch, next one might be worse. Ceballos been excellent in midfield on his own, could do with some help in there though! Just getting totally overrun as the game passes Xhaka by and Willocks disappeared after a bright start. Holding exposed time and again when he goes ball chasing, William still giving it away for fun, Pepe not much better, so little creativity and Aubam whilst at least down the middle is so isolated a lot of the time. Gabriel been good, one top save from Leno and many wasted chances the only reason were not at least a couple behind


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## paddyc (Nov 22, 2020)

Has to get better.....surely. lack creativity a big concern.


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Has to get better.....surely. lack creativity a big concern.
		
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nope it doesnt 

idiot Pepe


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No idea. Has done well when he has played so don't know why he doesn't get more game time. Shocking first half performance that wouldn't have got the job done in the championship let alone the PL. Much better second half. No idea who takes the next penalty as we're running out of takers with any degree of confidence. I think Everton made us look better in the second half than we actually were. At least Sheffield United keep losing so as long as West Brom and Burnley do the same then happy days. Leicester and Man City away and then Fulham at home. What can possibly go wrong
		
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I couldn't quite believe that you aren't bottom, never mind you are not bottom 3. That gives you a chance. Start the season next game in effect.

Our mentality was totally wrong second half so it was hard to tell if you were much better or we gave you too much time on the ball. Step one is surely to stop the playing around at the back. Fine to have a philosophy but to not mix it up makes it easy to play against. Equally the defence is not good enough to pass around the back like Beckenbauer. It should be noted at this point that we make the exact same mistake ☹. We can get away with it against lower teams, not against the better ones.

RLC made a real difference, it's cotton wool time for him. At least with him out there you had a shape and a pattern. 

I'd send one of your centre halfs up for the next pen. Tell him 5 paces and then hit it as hard as he can. Nothing fancy, just raw power. A pretty player may decide to do something else, your CB should just follow orders 😁. I have to confess, I laughed at the miss today, it was that bad. Had I been a Fulham fan I daren't think what the emotion would have been.


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## paddyc (Nov 22, 2020)

Well done Pepe you absolute  knob


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## paddyc (Nov 22, 2020)

Dando said:



			How did a sniper get in the Leeds ground?
		
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yes James he did go down like he was shot by why do that? pure stupidity from Pepe.


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## Dando (Nov 22, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Well done Pepe you absolute  knob
		
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Totally agree but why on earth did the Leeds player go down like a sack of poo?


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2020)

Dando said:



			Totally agree but why on earth did the Leeds player go down like a sack of poo?
		
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because he gets applauded for getting the opposition player sent off rather than punished retrospectively for play acting. 10+ examples every game and nothing ever done about it


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I couldn't quite believe that you aren't bottom, never mind you are not bottom 3. That gives you a chance. Start the season next game in effect.

Our mentality was totally wrong second half so it was hard to tell if you were much better or we gave you too much time on the ball. Step one is surely to stop the playing around at the back. Fine to have a philosophy but to not mix it up makes it easy to play against. Equally the defence is not good enough to pass around the back like Beckenbauer. It should be noted at this point that we make the exact same mistake ☹. We can get away with it against lower teams, not against the better ones.

RLC made a real difference, it's cotton wool time for him. At least with him out there you had a shape and a pattern.

I'd send one of your centre halfs up for the next pen. Tell him 5 paces and then hit it as hard as he can. Nothing fancy, just raw power. A pretty player may decide to do something else, your CB should just follow orders 😁. I have to confess, I laughed at the miss today, it was that bad. Had I been a Fulham fan I daren't think what the emotion would have been.
		
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It's always been a struggle for the last 47 or so years. The thing is they dangle that carrot of hope (like getting the second goal and coming onto Everton) but can't do the basics right defending including tracking the man in the box. We've played out of the back all of last season but the difference between doing it against a good PL side and a championship side is clear. Indeed when we did it in matches last year against sides like Brentford and Leeds they caught us out. 

I admire what Parker has done. He's young and like the team, learning in the PL. I wonder though if the time is right to get a solid right hand man, ideally a defensively minded coach to give him someone solid to bounce ideas off and get experience from a "been there done it" person and someone that can really drill the back line. When we had Ray Wilkins as a number two it was a perfect foil for the manager


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## paddyc (Nov 22, 2020)

Willock  off. I really do not see anything  in him that suggests hes PL quality  or is going become a player.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 22, 2020)

Dando said:



			Totally agree but why on earth did the Leeds player go down like a sack of poo?
		
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Probably to make sure the officials saw what had happened. Can't blame anyone but the fool who feigned to headbutt him!


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## Dando (Nov 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			because he gets applauded for getting the opposition player sent off rather than punished retrospectively for play acting. 10+ examples every game and nothing ever done about it
		
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Silly me!


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Probably to make sure the officials saw what had happened. Can't blame anyone but the fool who feigned to headbutt him!
		
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be interesting to see what wouldve happened if Pepe had gone down for his original foul, sadly hes not bright enough lol


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## paddyc (Nov 22, 2020)

0-0 looks a good result atm.


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## paddyc (Nov 22, 2020)

Traminator said:



			This game is dross 💤💤
		
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harsh mate it's way worse than that.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It's always been a struggle for the last 47 or so years. The thing is they dangle that carrot of hope (like getting the second goal and coming onto Everton) but can't do the basics right defending including tracking the man in the box. We've played out of the back all of last season but the difference between doing it against a good PL side and a championship side is clear. Indeed when we did it in matches last year against sides like Brentford and Leeds they caught us out.

I admire what Parker has done. He's young and like the team, learning in the PL. I wonder though if the time is right to get a solid right hand man, ideally a defensively minded coach to give him someone solid to bounce ideas off and get experience from a "been there done it" person and someone that can really drill the back line. When we had Ray Wilkins as a number two it was a perfect foil for the manager
		
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It seems to happen so often. Club gets into trouble, manager sticks to passing philosophy, gets sacked. Old school manager comes in, stiffens defence, drills defence and midfield, team picks up (not always enough but some). I agree with you, you need an old school coach to drill the team over and over, apparently something Hodgson does a lot of. Mix that with the rest of your style and you will be okay. Will Parker see that?


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2020)

How many times does a so called top level professional footballer have to be pulled for a foul throw before he learns? seriously? 4 and counting this year already lol


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## BiMGuy (Nov 22, 2020)

Dando said:



			Totally agree but why on earth did the Leeds player go down like a sack of poo?
		
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Because otherwise no one would have picked up on the headbutt. Its not. Like every other player in the PL wouldn't do the same. 

Don't throw a headbutt at a player any you won't get sent off. Quite straight forward really.


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## USER1999 (Nov 22, 2020)

The thing I don't get is, a head butt is a red card, and so is a nod. Head butt him if you want. Just do it properly, anything else is hand bags.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 22, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			The thing I don't get is, a head butt is a red card, and so is a nod. Head butt him if you want. Just do it properly, anything else is hand bags.
		
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The difference is a 3 game ban and  probably missing the rest of the season.


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## Fish (Nov 22, 2020)

Arsenal have scabbed a point here, if Leeds could finish, this would/could have been an embarrassing scoreline!


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## Stuart_C (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Glazers have been owners since 2005 is it ?

was it 5 titles and and CL in 8 years ?

Maybe the focus should be away from the owners and at the managers , transfers and players that have arrived since 2013

Nice and easy to blame owners but a lot of money has been spent , a lot of players have arrived
		
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What is often overlooked is the state of the squad that was left by Ferguson

Yes they were champions but it was won with a firing Van Persie, not  a solid defence  like the previous 20yrs. 

Luckily Yernited don't have a yes man in charge now.....oh


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## USER1999 (Nov 22, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			The difference is a 3 game ban and  probably missing the rest of the season.
		
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Sure, but if something is worth doing, do it properly.


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What is often overlooked is the state of the squad that was left by Ferguson

Yes they were champions but it was won with a firing Van Persie, not  a solid defence  like the previous 20yrs.

Luckily Yernited don't have a yes man in charge now.....oh
		
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sounds familiar to the situ were in too! horrid squad and massive asset devaluation in the latter years of a great manager


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## BiMGuy (Nov 22, 2020)

Fish said:



			Arsenal have scabbed a point here, if Leeds could finish, this would/could have been an embarrassing scoreline!
		
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Disappointed with a point there. We should really have beaten a very poor Arsenal team. 

Happy with a clean sheet though for a change.


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			1. What is often overlooked is the state of the squad that was left by Ferguson

2. Yes they were champions but it was won with a firing Van Persie, not  a solid defence  like the previous 20yrs.

3. Luckily Yernited don't have a yes man in charge now.....oh
		
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1. Bob on
2. Bob on 
3. Why would they employ a 'no' man?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What is often overlooked is the state of the squad that was left by Ferguson

Yes they were champions but it was won with a firing Van Persie, not  a solid defence  like the previous 20yrs.

Luckily Yernited don't have a yes man in charge now.....oh
		
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No doubt the squad wasn’t great but it’s now been 7/8 years and over £800mil spent by them under 3 managers 

I’m just glad they are sticking with the yes man - if they got a decent manager in and with the funds they spend then it wouldn’t take long for them to be back amongst it


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I couldn't quite believe that you aren't bottom, never mind you are not bottom 3. That gives you a chance. *Start the season next game in effect.*

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You obviously haven't seen their next 3 fixtures. Leicester away, Man City away and Liverpool at home. I can't see where they will get a point out of those three games so maybe they should start their season on 15th December with Brighton at home.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			sounds familiar to the situ were in too! horrid squad and massive asset devaluation in the latter years of a great manager
		
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I don't think we'll see managers staying at clubs for the length of time like Wenger and Ferguson did.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 22, 2020)

This Jota lad is alright. Great half of football this.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			This Jota lad is alright. Great half of football this.
		
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Should he keep his place and keep Salah out side when whilst he is the best player he broke covid rules


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## Papas1982 (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Should he keep his place and keep Salah out side when whilst he is the best player he broke covid rules
		
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Absolutley no change. 

Firmimho is the one imo who's gonna start losing his spot in the big games.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Absolutley no change.

Firmimho is the one imo who's gonna start losing his spot in the big games.
		
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Oh I agree but should Salah walk straight back in next week when he is only missing because he broke the rules? Seems unfair on the others


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh I agree but should Salah walk straight back in next week when he is only missing because he broke the rules? Seems unfair on the others
		
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Which rules did he break ? 

Salah will walk back into the team 

Jota having a great impact gives the manager options and at times he will pay all 4 because of Firminos ability to drop into the 10 role


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## Papas1982 (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh I agree but should Salah walk straight back in next week when he is only missing because he broke the rules? Seems unfair on the others
		
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Was he not allowed to go to the wedding? 

I could kind of see you point if a player took salahs spot and performed, but like I said. I reckon Firmimho is in the firing line and atm he isn't justifying his spot imo.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which rules did he break ?

Salah will walk back into the team

Jota having a great impact gives the manager options and at times he will pay all 4 because of Firminos ability to drop into the 10 role
		
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He lives in the UK under national lockdown we are only allowed to leave the country for elite sports ie football so really was he even allowed to be at the wedding in first place ? Apparently this is social distancing and enforced wearing of masks in enclosed spaces (which Egypt also has in place)

He clearly didn't follow the rules entirely .


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## Papas1982 (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 33671


He lives in the UK under national lockdown we are only allowed to leave the country for elite sports ie football so really was he even allowed to be at the wedding in first place ? Apparently this is social distancing and enforced wearing of masks in enclosed spaces (which Egypt also has in place)

He clearly didn't follow the rules entirely .
		
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Pretty sure when travel corridors were allowed, you had to keep to the rules of the country. Not the one you’ve come from. 

No he may not have been too sensible to have gone to the wedding, but no way are Liverpool, or any team dropping their star player for that imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 33671


He lives in the UK under national lockdown we are only allowed to leave the country for elite sports ie football so really was he even allowed to be at the wedding in first place ? Apparently this is social distancing and enforced wearing of masks in enclosed spaces (which Egypt also has in place)

He clearly didn't follow the rules entirely .
		
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Egypt allow weddings of up to 300 guests - he was under the jurisdiction of the Egyptian FA at the time 

Why would be not be allowed to attend his brothers wedding ? 

The club have not said he wasn’t allowed to go and Klopp doesn’t appear to have any issue with it.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Egypt allow weddings of up to 300 guests - he was under the jurisdiction of the Egyptian FA at the time

Why would be not be allowed to attend his brothers wedding ?

The club have not said he wasn’t allowed to go and Klopp doesn’t appear to have any issue with it.
		
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But doesn't get round the issue the Egypt the country he was in has the rule of masks inside at all times and social distancing 

Which in this photo his mask is down and that's not 2m.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Pretty sure when travel corridors were allowed, you had to keep to the rules of the country. Not the one you’ve come from.

No he may not have been too sensible to have gone to the wedding, but no way are Liverpool, or any team dropping their star player for that imo.
		
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Egypt is same masks inside and social distancing ..don't see it here


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## Papas1982 (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Egypt is same masks inside and social distancing ..don't see it here
		
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Tbf I've been to one funeral and no zero weddings since covid, but what I would say is that emotions and (in my case) alcohol led me to forget distancing.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			But doesn't get round the issue the Egypt the country he was in has the rule of masks inside at all times and social distancing

Which in this photo his mask is down and that's not 2m.
		
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Then he broke the rule in Egypt, so any punishment Should be handed out there. 

Are Liverpool playing WH next 😉


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf I've been to one funeral and no zero weddings since covid, but what I would say is that emotions and (in my case) alcohol led me to forget distancing.
		
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Which will happen yes but it would still be a break and if he was your player you would be a bit miffed and least fine him wages surely


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			But doesn't get round the issue the Egypt the country he was in has the rule of masks inside at all times and social distancing

Which in this photo his mask is down and that's not 2m.
		
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So what do you expect to happen ? The club not to play him because he went to his brother wedding and in the celebrations things slipped ? If it’s the UK rules then he will pay the £10k fine then 👍



Papas1982 said:



			Then he broke the rule in Egypt, so any punishment Should be handed out there.

Are Liverpool playing WH next 😉
		
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nah we managed to beat them before the Inty break 😉


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Then he broke the rule in Egypt, so any punishment Should be handed out there.

Are Liverpool playing WH next 😉
		
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Need to know if it's worth bringing him off the bench in FF next week


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## Papas1982 (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Which will happen yes but it would still be a break and if he was your player you would be a bit miffed and least fine him wages surely
		
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Nope. I haven't seen anything from Liverpool criticising him, so they aren't gonna fine him. 

If Ings wants to go to a loved ones wedding then he can crack on.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Nope. I haven't seen anything from Liverpool criticising him, so they aren't gonna fine him.

If Ings wants to go to a loved ones wedding then he can crack on.
		
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I'm sure behind closed doors words will be had. Not every matter is public for punishments


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No doubt the squad wasn’t great but it’s now been 7/8 years and over £800mil spent by them under 3 managers

I’m just glad they are sticking with the yes man - if they got a decent manager in and with the funds they spend then it wouldn’t take long for them to be back amongst it
		
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Actually, it's four managers, not three.
I thought you thought Mourinho was a decent manager.


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## davemc1 (Nov 22, 2020)

Good win, cudda shudda been more. Motm shouts from all over the pitch.

Was very surprised how poor Leicester were, having watched them a few times this season. Vardy an Maddison hardly had a touch


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

Slime said:



			Actually, it's four managers, not three.
I thought you thought Mourinho was a decent manager.
		
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Mourinho is a manager who has proven that he can win at the highest level when given the right backing 

He does it his way - if the club had shown him the same sort of support they are showing OGS then UTD would be in a far better place right now

OGS is the worst UTD manager I have seen - he has zero credentials to be a manager at the highest level , so far out of his depth it’s amusing , it’s brilliant the way he manages to sneak a win every now and then to keep him going. He acts like he believes he is the reincarnation of Ferguson  when talking to the media. I hope he stays for as long as he possibly can


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 22, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Good win, cudda shudda been more. Motm shouts from all over the pitch.

Was very surprised how poor Leicester were, having watched them a few times this season. Vardy an Maddison hardly had a touch
		
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Fabinho didnt break sweat, proper intelligent performance.

For Dalglish, they said the first yard was in his head, same for Fab but more in defensive thinking.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 22, 2020)

Klopp getting it spot on about the fixture scheduling in his post match interview! Unfortunately he’s also spot on when he said the TV Companies don’t care.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Klopp getting it spot on about the fixture scheduling in his post match interview! Unfortunately he’s also spot on when he said the TV Companies don’t care.

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Got a link? On Sky Sports it wasn’t very long.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 22, 2020)

We were the dogs ball’s tonight, controlled the game from the 1st whistle and restricted Leicester to very little.


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Mourinho is a manager who has proven that he can win at the highest level when given the right backing*

He does it his way - if the club had shown him the same sort of support they are showing OGS then UTD would be in a far better place right now

OGS is the worst UTD manager I have seen - he has zero credentials to be a manager at the highest level , so far out of his depth it’s amusing , it’s brilliant the way he manages to sneak a win every now and then to keep him going. He acts like he believes he is the reincarnation of Ferguson  when talking to the media. I hope he stays for as long as he possibly can
		
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And that's my point, he wasn't backed!
I also don't think they are showing OGS the support they should.
As I said earlier, they'll show support to qualify for the ECL ......................... and that's about it.
We should have got Haaland, but Woodward wouldn't pay his agent's demanded fees.
We should also have got Sancho but got Cavani instead ................ for free ................. plus huge agent's fees.
We are desperate for a CD, a CDM and a right winger. We got Cavani, Telles and Van Der Beek!
Good players they may well be, but not the players required.


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Klopp getting it spot on about the fixture scheduling in his post match interview! Unfortunately he’s also spot on when he said the TV Companies don’t care.

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But when OGS mentions it he's a moaner.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 22, 2020)

Slime said:



			But when OGS mentions it he's a moaner. 

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Let's be clear here. OGS is a poor manager. Absolutely not fit for the office he holds. But...

He's 100% right here. The scheduling is awful and quite frankly nobody is going to listen to the managers of the lesser teams, so the likes of Pep, OGS and Klopp *have* to keep repeating themselves. It's madness.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 22, 2020)

2nd and 3rd goals from the blues are things of beauty.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			We were the dogs ball’s tonight, controlled the game from the 1st whistle and restricted Leicester to very little.
		
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Im not sure if they play 3/5 at the back normally, but if they dont I think that was a step back by Brendan Rodgers.

When they went flat 4, they pushed on us more, pressed us higher and had more of the ball, but too late on this occasion. By then we were two up, and could then potentially pick them off more. So many good performances by us, no-one really had a bad game, everyone stepped up.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 22, 2020)

Slime said:



			But when OGS mentions it he's a moaner. 

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I can remember Benitez was called the same after we’d played away in Turkey on the weds night only to play Portsmouth on the Saturday 12:30.

I’ve just seen the post match press conference that sky never showed. He makes very valid points.

What pishes me off is why didn’t Sky show it.?? Maybe it doesn’t fit with their agenda.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2020)

Great win for the Reds .
But was a bit disappointed with Rodgers tactics.
They have worked this season up to now.
But we stopped them playing. Was expecting a tough game.
Thought Jota was brilliant.
Nice for Bobby to score but that’s not really his strength.
Would like to see more of all four playing up front with him setting them up.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Let's be clear here. OGS is a poor manager. Absolutely not fit for the office he holds. But...

He's 100% right here. The scheduling is awful and quite frankly nobody is going to listen to the managers of the lesser teams, so the likes of Pep, OGS and Klopp *have* to keep repeating themselves. It's madness.
		
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Teams in Europe have always had this problem.
Looks like they are just moaning .
But this season what they are saying is coming true.
Players are going down like flies with muscle injury’s.
It shows how little clout they have .


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2020)

Until those that own/run the clubs have the same view/agenda as the managers then its just hot air. Was hot air from Fergie, from Wenger, from Mourinho and it is from the current lot when the clubs are engineering for more far flung games that earn them more money. They either care or they dont and until their actions show they actually care then they cant complain about others imo


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			Until those that own/run the clubs have the same view/agenda as the managers then its just hot air. Was hot air from Fergie, from Wenger, from Mourinho and it is from the current lot when the clubs are engineering for more far flung games that earn them more money. They either care or they dont and until their actions show they actually care then they cant complain about others imo
		
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Let's be honest no managers or coaches love going on pre season missions around the globe, they have to to fulfil sponsorship deals unfortunately. 

 In a standard season i'd agree. 

This season is different though. They've barely had a pre season. International games 3 days before the season kicked off. 3 Stupid friendlies in the last fortnight, It really is Pathetic.

The next lot of TV fixtures spread out over crazy times is madness.


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Let's be honest no managers or coaches love going on pre season missions around the globe, they have to to fulfil sponsorship deals unfortunately.

In a standard season i'd agree.

This season is different though. They've barely had a pre season. International games 3 days before the season kicked off. 3 Stupid friendlies in the last fortnight, It really is Pathetic.

The next lot of TV fixtures spread out over crazy times is madness.
		
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nah i dont buy it mate, if clubs had acted differently over the last 10+ years id agree, but they havent, none of them, if they cant do the right thing every other year they cant use circumstances this year as the excuse. They all do what is best for the bottom line/club not the players and their welfare, complain when they dont get their way. Not to mention not supporting other clubs when their players are suffering or they have too many games

until they actually show some decency when its not only in their clubs benefit then ultimately its bs


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			nah i dont buy it mate, if clubs had acted differently over the last 10+ years id agree, but they havent, none of them, if they cant do the right thing every other year they cant use circumstances this year as the excuse. They all do what is best for the bottom line/club not the players and their welfare, complain when they dont get their way. Not to mention not supporting other clubs when their players are suffering or they have too many games

until they actually show some decency when its not only in their clubs benefit then ultimately its bs
		
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Its not the clubs, its the Premier league that are the problem along with the telly companies.

They should have a clause put in the next deal that says that a team cant play a league game less than 65 hours after a midweek European game. It's only happened now and again, but some clubs have played Thursday saturday and thats just plain wrong.

At least for the first half of the season the telly companies know who is in what competition and what night they are playing, and with games from Friday to Monday night a possibility, they can still pick their live games accordingly. For fairness you cant let the individual clubs dictate when they play, but there should be a minimum number of hours between fixtures.


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its not the clubs, its the Premier league that are the problem along with the telly companies.

They should have clause put in the next deal that says that a team cant play a league game less than 65 hours after a midweek European game. It's only happened now and again, but some clubs have played Thursday saturday and thats just plain wrong.

At least for the first half of the season the telly companies know who is in what competition and what night they are playing, and with games from Friday to Monday night a possibility, they can still pick their live games accordingly. For fairness you cant let the individual clubs dictate when they play, but there should be a minimum number of hours between fixtures.
		
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lol the clubs arent negotiating for a european super league, didnt demand more games in the early stages on the CL, arent going on well paid pre season jollies to the far east? yeah its not their fault lets blame the PL for choosing which days they play on tv. as i said, until they help themselves, stop blaming everyone else (but they will continue to)


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol the clubs arent negotiating for a european super league, didnt demand more games in the early stages on the CL, arent going on well paid pre season jollies to the far east? yeah its not their fault lets blame the PL for choosing which days they play on tv. as i said, until they help themselves, stop blaming everyone else (but they will continue to)
		
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I'm not saying the're innocent either.

ALL fixtures need to be looked at from international games down to CL/Europa, league and cups.

Maybe in isolation I'm just saying that teams shouldnt have to play 2 games within 48 hours.


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## Kellfire (Nov 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol the clubs arent negotiating for a european super league, didnt demand more games in the early stages on the CL, arent going on well paid pre season jollies to the far east? yeah its not their fault lets blame the PL for choosing which days they play on tv. as i said, until they help themselves, stop blaming everyone else (but they will continue to)
		
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The people who organise these matches for money aren’t the managers and players.

It’s not fair to say the teams brought it on themselves when it isn’t the men in suits who have to play more matches than they’re physically built for.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 23, 2020)

Managers could speak to their owners, reduce the number of games played or played on TV but it would mean significant wage cuts, reduced money to spend on transfers. They don't want that consequence so ultimately their moans are empty. 

For what it's worth, I agree about the fixture congestion, the Wednesday night in Turkey, Saturday morning game on sky complaints. I just don't agree that the managers are toothless in this.


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## Kellfire (Nov 23, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Managers could speak to their owners, reduce the number of games played or played on TV but it would mean significant wage cuts, reduced money to spend on transfers. They don't want that consequence so ultimately their moans are empty.

For what it's worth, I agree about the fixture congestion, the Wednesday night in Turkey, Saturday morning game on sky complaints. I just don't agree that the managers are toothless in this.
		
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Very few teams have actual managers anymore; they’re head coaches and I think you overestimate their power.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2020)

I don’t have any sympathy for a team playing midweek then weekend when it’s a reward for success, ideally every PL team wants to be in Europe.

My issue and the one I agree with Klopp about is the scheduling of those games on TV and BT and Sky not putting any thought in to it, I think every team around Europe playing in the CL this wednesday played on saturday except for Lpool.

We should be looking after the English teams, the FA/PL should insist on maximum times between the games for these Clubs.

Look at next week, Man Utd play Tues/Sun/Weds, Lpool play Weds/Sat(12:30)/Tues, City play Weds/Sat(15:00)/Tues, Chelsea play Tues/Sun/Weds absolutely no reason why all 4 teams playing in the CL can’t play saturday. Plus look at City and Lpool the following week, Lpool play at home in the CL and City away, if you’re going to help the team travelling (City) give them the early kick off on the weekend!


The Club friendlies are a red herring, they take place prior to the season even starting, Internationals are also a mute point as they impact all Clubs.


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## Fish (Nov 23, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Very few teams have actual managers anymore; they’re head coaches and I think you overestimate their power.
		
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Hurts this, but I agree!

They’re head coaches, and manage the owners players, who will want to display & distribute their brand as much and as far & wide as possible for as much visibility leading to as much commercial revenue as that can bring them. 

Many owners will have the attitude, that, the head coaches have what they perceive to be an excellent squad of players, excellent training facilities, back room staff, etc, ‘so make it work’! 

I don’t read or hear of many (or any) owners moaning or going on record about fixture congestion 🤔


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 23, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Very few teams have actual managers anymore; they’re head coaches and I think you overestimate their power.
		
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100%.

Even Fergie was finding some of his off field involvement being eroded in the years prior to his retirement. 

Same with Wenger.

It's understandable as managers/head-coaches are invariably ex-players and have had little or no experience or training in the finances of clubs.

If it was any other industry the owners would not take someone from the shopfloor at age 40 and immediately make him CEO of a company turning over hundreds of millions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2020)

It was always going to be a very condensed season with a number of teams playing weekend then midweek then weekend - there wasn’t much of a pre season or indeed a break from the last season 

The players who are playing European comps and the Prem are going to be flogged to death - the internationals should have been cancelled and then allowed a bit of breathing space at the very least not had three in the space of 10 days - games on Wed then sat morning , or a Sunday then a Tuesday - common sense in regards the arranging of games to try and help all teams. Teams are already losing players to injuries and it would be a shame to see comps won because a team had less injuries 

Give the team the ability to have more subs , don’t arrange games for European teams either first thing on a Saturday or late on a Sunday - the managers will only be trying to look after their squad , the job given to them by the owners.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 23, 2020)

I am all for making sure teams have an the most time between games as posibble.

Am absolutely agaisnt 5 subs. Maybe during this hectic period, but once the fixtures thin out it only helps the bigs clubs. 

Maybe if a clause was written such as being able to have 5 subs but you must start with 4 different players each game so as to make bigger clubs actually rotate form the start I'd agree. Otherwise big clubs will just start all the star players. Hope to get a decent lead then whip em all off and coast.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I am all for making sure teams have an the most time between games as posibble.

Am absolutely agaisnt 5 subs. Maybe during this hectic period, but once the fixtures thin out it only helps the bigs clubs.

Maybe if a clause was written such as being able to have 5 subs but you must start with 4 different players each game so as to make bigger clubs actually rotate form the start I'd agree. Otherwise big clubs will just start all the star players. Hope to get a decent lead then whip em all off and coast.
		
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Defo just benefits the big boys as those out of Europe get a decent rest.. normally don't the successful clubs have bigger squads to make up for it?

I agree with Phil international games should have been scrapt this year that would have allowed for a more rested season 

Back to point a isn't that what used to happen to teams who qualified for Europa for first time (in the main) they had long seasons and not used to it with the squads and suffered I know we did and at first spurs did  before they were top 4


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2020)

Every team has the same size squads and I don’t see how bringing in 5 subs favours any team - the “bigger” clubs will be playing in Europe so their players will play more so that balances out the other teams who maybe don’t have the same level through the squad but then their better players will play less games


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2020)

You can’t have it both ways! You can’t recruit from all corners of the globe and expect International Football to be binned because some teams in the PL are busy.

Different parts of the World have their season at different times! FIFA will see the World Cup and the qualifying for it as more important.

The international break/fixtures is a totally different discussion to BT & Sky not helping English Clubs in Europe.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every team has the same size squads and I don’t see how bringing in 5 subs favours any team - the “bigger” clubs will be playing in Europe so their players will play more so that balances out the other teams who maybe don’t have the same level through the squad but then their better players will play less games
		
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Bigger clubs always play in Europe and still do better. 

Theres a reason the vote failed last time. Its the biggest clubs comparing the most as they'd get the most benefit from it. 

The size of the squad isn't the issue. The standard of the subs is.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every team has the same size squads and I don’t see how bringing in 5 subs favours any team - the “bigger” clubs will be playing in Europe so their players will play more so that balances out the other teams who maybe don’t have the same level through the squad but then their better players will play less games
		
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Because Liverpool and city's ,5 Subs can be super stars 

Where as Fulham or Burnley may have say a half decent first team but the subs aren't the same standard 

Look at Liverpool now you had Salah out, vvd out, Gomez out. TAA out. Henderson out 

Yet could call upon kieta , wijnaldum milner 

Also not all squad sizes are the same at all

You can name unlimited numbers of under 21s so teams who can afford to invest in good youth systems get more players to pick from so when injuries hit can call from youth to pad out the bench .


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2020)

I wonder what the PL would say if clubs started fielding under strength sides  from the U21's etc in these round of PL matches.

Maybe if sky had shown Klopps full interview  and debated it people would understand why they're asking for what they are.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Because Liverpool and city's ,5 Subs can be super stars

Where as Fulham or Burnley may have say a half decent first team but the subs aren't the same standard

Look at Liverpool now you had Salah out, vvd out, Gomez out. TAA out. Henderson out

Yet could call upon* kieta ,* wijnaldum milner

Also not all squad sizes are the same at all

You can name unlimited numbers of under 21s so teams who can afford to invest in good youth systems get more players to pick from so when injuries hit can call from youth to pad out the bench .
		
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Yes and look what happened to him after being out for a while and playing 2 full 90 mins last week for his country. 

Not the best comparison.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 23, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Very few teams have actual managers anymore; they’re head coaches and I think you overestimate their power.
		
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That is just semantics. If Klopp or Pep wanted something to happen within their club it would likely happen. The managers / coaches could group together via the LMA and speak as one. They don't because ultimately that would affect the finances. They want to buy the best players in the world and to do that you need money. To get that you jump when the tv companies say so. They don't want to make that compromise.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes and look what happened to him after being out for a while and playing 2 full 90 mins last week for his country.

Not the best comparison.
		
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Not quite sure your point here because even with 5 subs he would have played.

Unless you are claiming the butterfly affect from the rest of the season caused all the other injuries meaning he had to play half fit

Best way to fix it would have been to ban international games this season.

Fair to everyone where as 5 subs mainly benefits the big clubs


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## Fish (Nov 23, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is just semantics. If Klopp or Pep wanted something to happen within their club it would likely happen. The managers / coaches could group together via the LMA and speak as one. They don't because ultimately that would affect the finances. They want to buy the best players in the world and to do that you need money. To get that you jump when the tv companies say so. They don't want to make that compromise.
		
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So any public moaning they do is just lip service?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 23, 2020)

Fish said:



			So any public moaning they do is just lip service?
		
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I think instead of moaning to the press they should be speaking to their Chief Exec or equivalent. They are the ones who can actually do something about it. Is it lip service? Yes, pretty much.


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## Orikoru (Nov 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every team has the same size squads and I don’t see how bringing in 5 subs favours any team - the “bigger” clubs will be playing in Europe so their players will play more so that balances out the other teams who maybe don’t have the same level through the squad but then their better players will play less games
		
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It's not the size, it's the strength of the back-up players isn't it? When City's first team are tired they can bring on 5 more world class players who are all being paid 100 grand a week. If the likes of Sheffield Utd or Burnley are making 5 subs then they're bringing on Championship players essentially.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It's not the size, it's the strength of the back-up players isn't it? When City's first team are tired they can bring on 5 more world class players who are all being paid 100 grand a week. If the likes of Sheffield Utd or Burnley are making 5 subs then they're bringing on Championship players essentially.
		
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That’s always going to be the case because of the relative resources of the clubs - but then Citys players will be playing twice as many games due to the European schedule - so it helps balance it out 

It could also help player development with more teams bringing through Youth players 

It’s an extra potential two players to come with a match day squad increasing to 20

Apparently 15 managers out of 20 are now in favour where as before it was 11 in favour 

The EFL allow 5 , CL allow 5 - so why not the Prem. 

Clearly people will look at their own teams and judge from the size/quality of their squad but we for example would be using a lot more youth and academy players


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## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s always going to be the case because of the relative resources of the clubs - but then Citys players will be playing twice as many games due to the European schedule - so it helps balance it out

It could also help player development with more teams bringing through Youth players

It’s an extra potential two players to come with a match day squad increasing to 20

Apparently 15 managers out of 20 are now in favour where as before it was 11 in favour

The EFL allow 5 , CL allow 5 - so why not the Prem.

Clearly people will look at their own teams and judge from the size/quality of their squad but we for example would be using a lot more youth and academy players
		
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Maybe the rule should be they can only be used for Injuries and the extra players on bench may only be under 21s.


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## Rlburnside (Nov 23, 2020)

It’s blinding obvious that the richer clubs are going to benifit with 5 subs and is totally unfair, I’d be surprised if this was voted through I can see only negatives for the majority of clubs.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Maybe the rule should be *they can only be used for Injuries *and the extra players on bench may only be under 21s.
		
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Lots of muscle tightening going to be happening to players have a stinker there . Unfortunately you can not trust the honesty of footballer, coaches, managers etc so that one would not work. Fine if you could trust them.....


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## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Lots of muscle tightening going to be happening to players have a stinker there . Unfortunately you can not trust the honesty of footballer, coaches, managers etc so that one would not work. Fine if you could trust them.....
		
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Good point


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## 4LEX (Nov 23, 2020)

The 5 subs rule shouldn't happen. It won't protect players from injuries and will only be used as tactics to slow games down and generally ruin the flow of a game. The second part of last season really was some of the worst elite football ever seen and it was largely due to the water breaks and 5 subs being used that resulted in disjointed games with too many breaks.

Bigger clubs already have large squads to cope with injuries, now they're trying to gain another advantage. If the likes of Ole and Pep are worried about injuries, maybe don't play Rashford with a serious back injury (last season) to save your own skin or starting Ageuro in 3 games in a week after months out might help?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2020)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talk...138/efl-five-sub-rule-return-pl-pressure/amp/

EFL recently voted to go to 5 subs as well as 20 man squad , it won’t be long until the Prem follow. 

It’s not just about gaining an advantage, some will also want to protect the players as well


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 23, 2020)

Keep hearing about top clubs having bigger squads but I understood that all PL clubs are restricted to the same number of 25.

Obviously the top clubs are likely to have greater quality in their squads but that would be true if there was 15, 25 or 35 players.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Keep hearing about top clubs having bigger squads but I understood that all PL clubs are restricted to the same number of 25.

Obviously the top clubs are likely to have greater quality in their squads but that would be true if there was 15, 25 or 35 players.
		
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Phil foden doesn't count as one of city's 25 players because of his age

We have same with rice but rest of our players are rubbish. Rest of citys aren't


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## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talk...138/efl-five-sub-rule-return-pl-pressure/amp/

EFL recently voted to go to 5 subs as well as 20 man squad , it won’t be long until the Prem follow.

It’s not just about gaining an advantage, some will also want to protect the players as well
		
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Don't see EFL squads with the quality of Liverpool , city , chelsea .. football league is much more balanced than premier League .


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## Junior (Nov 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mourinho is a manager who has proven that he can win at the highest level when given the right backing

He does it his way - if the club had shown him the same sort of support they are showing OGS then UTD would be in a far better place right now

OGS is the worst UTD manager I have seen - he has zero credentials to be a manager at the highest level , so far out of his depth it’s amusing , it’s brilliant the way he manages to sneak a win every now and then to keep him going. He acts like he believes he is the reincarnation of Ferguson  when talking to the media. I hope he stays for as long as he possibly can
		
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Yet he finished 3rd in his first full season .....didn't Klopp take Liverpool to 8th ???

Thats tongue in cheek btw as that's all hes got on Klippety.  I agree he needs to go.  But, he is better than Moyes and LVG. 

What i like about Klopp is that he continues to motivate and improve Liverpool .  Most importantly,  he signs player on character as well as skill.   Players put in a real shift all over the pitch and that is what Liverpool fans demand. Believe it or not, Utd fans require the same.  

OGS for some reason can't motivate the players to do that.   Whist he tries to attack more than Moyes  LVG and Jose did,   hes tactically poor and we have a few bad characters in the squad.  I've never seen a work rate so low at OT.  Lets get the next one off the rank....probably Poch right ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2020)

Junior said:



			Yet he finished 3rd in his first full season .....didn't Klopp take Liverpool to 8th ???
		
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 8th was the season he took from Rodgers - 4th was his first full season 😁




			Thats tongue in cheek btw as that's all hes got on Klippety.  I agree he needs to go.  But, he is better than Moyes and LVG.

What i like about Klopp is that he continues to motivate and improve Liverpool .  Most importantly,  he signs player on character as well as skill.   Players put in a real shift all over the pitch and that is what Liverpool fans demand. Believe it or not, Utd fans require the same.
		
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Definatly and it must very frustrating to watch - it should be the very bare minimum, effort and I think that’s why Pogba gets a lot of stick because he just looks like he doesn’t care at times , same with players like Martial - amazing talents but seems no motivation 



			OGS for some reason can't motivate the players to do that.   Whist he tries to attack more than Moyes  LVG and Jose did,   hes tactically poor and we have a few bad characters in the squad.  I've never seen a work rate so low at OT.  Lets get the next one off the rank....probably Poch right ?
		
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I just don’t think he commands the respect from the players because he hasn’t proven himself as a manager - maybe Poch isn’t the right man to take over but he would immediately demand more respect because he has shown he can do it. Then there is managers like Nagelsmann, Tuchel - some very good managers that you would expect a club like Man Utd to be looking at


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not quite sure your point here because even with 5 subs he would have played.

Unless you are claiming the butterfly affect from the rest of the season caused all the other injuries meaning he had to play half fit

Best way to fix it would have been to ban international games this season.

Fair to everyone where as 5 subs mainly benefits the big clubs
		
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The point is with 3 subs and a very hectic schedule there's a bigger chance of injuries so managers are reluctant to make subs incase they make 3 subs and end up with 1 or 2 injuries later on in the game leaving the teams with 9 or 10 players with 15 minutes to play. 

Currently players are at a higher risk of injury than in a normal season due to lack of a pre season etc.


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The point is with 3 subs and a very hectic schedule there's a bigger chance of injuries so managers are reluctant to make subs incase they make 3 subs and end up with 1 or 2 injuries later on in the game leaving the teams with 9 or 10 players with 15 minutes to play.

*Currently players are at a higher risk of injury than in a normal season due to lack of a pre season etc.*

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yet the managers arent using their squads and rotating a lot of the players when they have a chance to 

back to cake and eat it again


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Phil foden doesn't count as one of city's 25 players because of his age

We have same with rice but rest of our players are rubbish. Rest of citys aren't
		
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There's nothing new in this. 

The top clubs always have had an edge in having the better players and more of them.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			yet the managers arent using their squads and rotating a lot of the players when they have a chance to

back to cake and eat it again
		
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Well Klopp is, he hasn't got a choice 😉


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## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2020)

Considering the extra harsh lockdown measures of tiers it sounds like some fans will be back under the tier system? 4000 in tier 1, 2000 tier 2.. or 50% whatever is lower.


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Well Klopp is, he hasn't got a choice 😉
		
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he had a choice but chose not to, now hes paying the price


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 23, 2020)

Wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the Corona Virus thread, but I don't understand the new rules on fans attending sporting events. It seems as though they've picked an arbitrary number rather than base it on anything. Tier 1 - 4000 fans allowed to attend (or 50% capacity, whichever is lower). If Colchester and Manchester are both in Tier 1, Colchester would be allowed 4000 fans in their 10000 capacity stadium. Man Utd would be allowed 4000 in their 75000 (?) capacity stadium. Surely they would have been better in choosing a percentage of capacity rather than a set number. 4000 fans at Old Trafford are going to be far easier to distance than 4000 fans at Colchester.


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the Corona Virus thread, but I don't understand the new rules on fans attending sporting events. It seems as though they've picked an arbitrary number rather than base it on anything. Tier 1 - 4000 fans allowed to attend (or 50% capacity, whichever is lower). If Colchester and Manchester are both in Tier 1, Colchester would be allowed 4000 fans in their 10000 capacity stadium. Man Utd would be allowed 4000 in their 75000 (?) capacity stadium. Surely they would have been better in choosing a percentage of capacity rather than a set number. 4000 fans at Old Trafford are going to be far easier to distance than 4000 fans at Colchester.
		
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something to do with being fair/equal to the different clubs and fans, as you say doesnt make a lot of sense at all

surely 10% of each stands capacity or similar would make more sense


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## Fish (Nov 23, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the Corona Virus thread, but I don't understand the new rules on fans attending sporting events. It seems as though they've picked an arbitrary number rather than base it on anything. Tier 1 - 4000 fans allowed to attend (or 50% capacity, whichever is lower). If Colchester and Manchester are both in Tier 1, Colchester would be allowed 4000 fans in their 10000 capacity stadium. Man Utd would be allowed 4000 in their 75000 (?) capacity stadium. Surely they would have been better in choosing a percentage of capacity rather than a set number. 4000 fans at Old Trafford are going to be far easier to distance than 4000 fans at Colchester.
		
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You couldn’t have a set percentage, if so, what number were you thinking off?

Based on Colchesters 4K, which is 40%, you couldn’t then have 40% at OT, you couldn’t control access & travel & halftime drinks/toilets etc. 

There’s no ideal factor IMO, so they’ve aired on the side of caution and will monitor how it pans out.


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## Swingalot (Nov 23, 2020)

I'd feel sorry for the 4000 who would sit through that  crap that us and Burnley produced.  Awful game.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			I'd feel sorry for the 4000 who would sit through that  crap that us and Burnley produced.  Awful game.
		
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And you couldn't keep your end of the bargain and win (or at the very least draw). Got to put up with a over happy female Burnley fan all day tomorrow unless I fire her


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every team has the same size squads and I don’t see how bringing in 5 subs favours any team - the “bigger” clubs will be playing in Europe so their players will play more so that balances out the other teams who maybe don’t have the same level through the squad but then their better players will play less games
		
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Come on Phil, the bigger teams tend to have better subs and with better fitness from players these days it will be an advantage over teams who havent had a game in the midweek.

Maybe 4 subs for this season is the way forward. 

One suggestion was the teams in Europe could have the 5 subs, but only when they play each other. Not the worst idea in the world.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You can’t have it both ways! You can’t recruit from all corners of the globe and expect International Football to be binned because some teams in the PL are busy.

Different parts of the World have their season at different times! FIFA will see the World Cup and the qualifying for it as more important.

The international break/fixtures is a totally different discussion to BT & Sky not helping English Clubs in Europe.
		
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Paul, I think most people have said that it should definitely be this season, as a special situation.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Paul, I think most people have said that it should definitely be this season, as a special situation.
		
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It can’t be though Pete, work out the knock on effect for something like the next World Cup as FIFA haven’t moved it.

Edit: Next Season/Year we already have to contend with the delayed Olympics and African Nations Cup, add in 12 months of delay for Euros, World Cup etc and then think how many “International Breaks” would be needed.

The next one this season isn’t until March so in the bigger picture it really hasn’t been that bad.


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## sunshine (Nov 24, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			I'd feel sorry for the 4000 who would sit through that  crap that us and Burnley produced.  Awful game.
		
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How is Eze settling in? He seems to be getting more minutes. He was class the last couple of seasons, far too good for QPR and the Championship.


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## sunshine (Nov 24, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the Corona Virus thread, but I don't understand the new rules on fans attending sporting events. It seems as though they've picked an arbitrary number rather than base it on anything. Tier 1 - 4000 fans allowed to attend (or 50% capacity, whichever is lower). If Colchester and Manchester are both in Tier 1, Colchester would be allowed 4000 fans in their 10000 capacity stadium. Man Utd would be allowed 4000 in their 75000 (?) capacity stadium. Surely they would have been better in choosing a percentage of capacity rather than a set number. 4000 fans at Old Trafford are going to be far easier to distance than 4000 fans at Colchester.
		
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That's a really good point. But the risks extend beyond the number of seats in the stand. It's the number of turnstiles, toilets, burger stands, bars, access by public transport etc. Really tough to set a limit.


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## Slime (Nov 24, 2020)

Cruise control at Old Trafford.
Oh, and another penalty.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2020)

Slime said:



			Cruise control at Old Trafford.
Oh, and another penalty.
		
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And a soft one at that


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It can’t be though Pete, work out the knock on effect for something like the next World Cup as FIFA haven’t moved it.

Edit: Next Season/Year we already have to contend with the delayed Olympics and African Nations Cup, add in 12 months of delay for Euros, World Cup etc and then think how many “International Breaks” would be needed.

The next one this season isn’t until March so in the bigger picture it really hasn’t been that bad.
		
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The friendlies should have been cancelled, not the qualifiers.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And a soft one at that
		
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Arent they always?


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## 4LEX (Nov 24, 2020)

How good is Bruno? The finish for the first one, poaching for the second and unselfishly giving up a hatrick. Been at Utd under 10 months and already has nearly 20 goals from a genuine midfield position. Workrate, passion and a leader. Can't see Utd hanging onto him unless theres big changes in the next 6 months.

This group is set up nicely. If PSG win at Utd next week it'll go down to a shoot out between RB and Utd in Germany. Wonder if the result in Turkey could come back to haunt Utd


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## Slime (Nov 24, 2020)

4LEX said:



*How good is Bruno? The finish for the first one, poaching for the second and unselfishly giving up a hatrick. Been at Utd under 10 months and already has nearly 20 goals from a genuine midfield position. Workrate, passion and a leader.* Can't see Utd hanging onto him unless theres big changes in the next 6 months.

This group is set up nicely. If PSG win at Utd next week it'll go down to a shoot out between RB and Utd in Germany. Wonder if the result in Turkey could come back to haunt Utd 

Click to expand...

The only issue I have is that he's not the captain!


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## Slime (Nov 24, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And a soft one at that
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Arent they always?
		
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Oooh, let the haters hate.


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## 4LEX (Nov 24, 2020)

Slime said:



			The only issue I have is that he's not the captain!
		
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Personally don't think creative players should be Captain. Let the players play.


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## Orikoru (Nov 25, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Personally don't think creative players should be Captain. Let the players play.
		
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But who else is captain material in that squad?


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## Kellfire (Nov 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			But who else is captain material in that squad?
		
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Captains are similar to “managers” now. Much less influence than old. Don’t think it really matters.


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## Orikoru (Nov 25, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Captains are similar to “managers” now. Much less influence than old. Don’t think it really matters.
		
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Kind of agree but you still need a few people on the pitch who would be considered captain material!


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## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2020)

4LEX said:



_*How good is Bruno?*_ The finish for the first one, poaching for the second and unselfishly giving up a hatrick. *Been at Utd under 10 months and already has nearly 20 goals from a genuine midfield position*. Workrate, passion and a leader. Can't see Utd hanging onto him unless theres big changes in the next 6 months.

This group is set up nicely. If PSG win at Utd next week it'll go down to a shoot out between RB and Utd in Germany. Wonder if the result in Turkey could come back to haunt Utd 

Click to expand...

*I think he's a great footballer, when he turns up.😉*

*How many of those 20 goals have been pens though?*


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## Orikoru (Nov 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



*How many of those 20 goals have been pens though?*

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12. I'm not kidding, I just looked it up. So over half.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			12. I'm not kidding, I just looked it up. So over half.
		
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More impressive him letting rashford have that one last when on a hatrick


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 25, 2020)

Think of the consultancy fees he could charge Fulham right now .


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## sunshine (Nov 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			12. I'm not kidding, I just looked it up. So over half.
		
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I've only just discovered his name isn't Fernandes Pen. I thought it was double-barreled.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2020)

Lots of reports on Twitter that Diego Maradona has died from a heart attack 

A cheat on the pitch but prob the best player I have seen play the game


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## Leftitshort (Nov 25, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lots of reports on Twitter that Diego Maradona has died from a heart attack

A cheat on the pitch but prob the best player I have seen play the game
		
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Deserves a separate thread if true. Best player to ever lace up some boots


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## Orikoru (Nov 25, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lots of reports on Twitter that Diego Maradona has died from a heart attack

*A cheat on the pitch *but prob the best player I have seen play the game
		
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Was that necessary? Dear me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Was that necessary? Dear me.
		
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?! Is factual , him passing away doesn’t stop that


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## SatchFan (Nov 25, 2020)

Don't know why Maradona is being singled out. They're all cheats on the pitch.


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## Slime (Nov 25, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lots of reports on Twitter that Diego Maradona has died from a heart attack

*A cheat on the pitch* but prob the best player I have seen play the game
		
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Aren't they all though?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			12. I'm not kidding, I just looked it up. So over half.
		
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Thought it was more but still over half are free hits. 

He's still got to convert the pen like so he deserves some credit but let's not get too excited about his goal record.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2020)

Sad news one of THE greatest footballers ever has passed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2020)

Slime said:



			Aren't they all though?
		
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No they aren’t 🙄


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 25, 2020)

Fantastic footballer, probably the best I‘ve seen in my lifetime. RIP Maradona


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## Slime (Nov 25, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No they aren’t 🙄
		
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Okay.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 25, 2020)

Bad night at Anfield. Big game next against Ajax now


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2020)

Strange one from Liverpool tonight.
Not one shot on target.
Very slow lethargic from all the players.
Atalanta deserved the win 
Better team on the night.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 25, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Strange one from Liverpool tonight.
Not one shot on target.
Very slow lethargic from all the players.
Atalanta deserved the win
Better team on the night.
		
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Absolutely. Very poor from us. Atalanta were much the better side. 

Origi certainly showed why nobody fancied taking him off us in the summer, but unfair to single him out when (much like the villa game) the whole team was way off the pace.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Absolutely. Very poor from us. Atalanta were much the better side.

Origi certainly showed why nobody fancied taking him off us in the summer, but unfair to single him out when (much like the villa game) the whole team was way off the pace.
		
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No pressure on the ball for the crosses for both goals .
You can’t just let him have that time at this level.
Could have played all night and not scored.
Just wasn’t there tonight,


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## fundy (Nov 25, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Strange one from Liverpool tonight.
Not one shot on target.
Very slow lethargic from all the players.
Atalanta deserved the win
Better team on the night.
		
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so glad i bet them at home when they lost 5-0 and not tonight lol


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## Fish (Nov 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			No pressure on the ball for the crosses for both goals .
You can’t just let him have that time at this level.
Could have played all night and not scored.
Just wasn’t there tonight,
		
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Too many changes?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 26, 2020)

Fish said:



			Too many changes?
		
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The changes never helped/worked but we were still very poor, never won many 1st/2nd balls. Passing and movement was too slow.

One of those days, it happens, we need to  react early Saturday morning.


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## GB72 (Nov 26, 2020)

Do we have an issue with parity between matches now that some clubs will be allowed, in most cases, 2000 fans in the stadium whilst others must remain empty. Just to take 2 obvious examples, Liverpool can now have fans in the ground but Manchester United cannot.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Do we have an issue with parity between matches now that some clubs will be allowed, in most cases, 2000 fans in the stadium whilst others must remain empty. Just to take 2 obvious examples, Liverpool can now have fans in the ground but Manchester United cannot.
		
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I believe it is an issue - I don’t think it’s right that some clubs can have fans and others can’t - should be all in or not


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2020)

2,000 fans will rattle in these big stadiums, particularly as they will need to spread out. If they impact players then those players need to have a look at themselves. It won't be the same as a compact bunch of away fans who can make some noise.

10k may make a difference but I don't see 2k doing the same.


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## Kellfire (Nov 26, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			2,000 fans will rattle in these big stadiums, particularly as they will need to spread out. If they impact players then those players need to have a look at themselves. It won't be the same as a compact bunch of away fans who can make some noise.

10k may make a difference but I don't see 2k doing the same.
		
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Remember that they’re suggesting fans won’t be allowed to stand, sign or shout... atmosphere won’t be increased at all.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 26, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Do we have an issue with parity between matches now that some clubs will be allowed, in most cases, 2000 fans in the stadium whilst others must remain empty. Just to take 2 obvious examples, Liverpool can now have fans in the ground but Manchester United cannot.
		
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Yes, slightly.

Another example is all the Southern clubs (and Merseyside ones) vs all the other northern clubs.

Northern powerhouse? Its a sham.


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## Fish (Nov 26, 2020)

An entire team rested 😳


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## 4LEX (Nov 26, 2020)

I watched parts of the N Ireland game last week and even a small number of fans made a big difference. Stuff like noise at corners or attacks will be a step in the right direction. 

Totally unfair to have home advantage for some and not others, though.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 26, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



*Yes, slightly.*

Another example is all the Southern clubs (and Merseyside ones) vs all the other northern clubs.

Northern powerhouse? Its a sham.
		
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Wait til the null and void cryarse's get going 😄


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## Swingalot (Nov 26, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Remember that they’re suggesting fans won’t be allowed to stand, sign or shout... atmosphere won’t be increased at all.
		
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Standard behaviour down at the Amex


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## chrisd (Nov 26, 2020)

I see BBC are showing Aston Villa v Palace on Boxing day  - after watching the dismal performance the other day v Burnley at least I can still enjoy my Boxing day PM nap!


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, slightly.

Another example is all the Southern clubs (and Merseyside ones) vs all the other northern clubs.

Northern powerhouse? Its a sham.
		
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Plus the fact that Colchester in tier 2 will be allowed 2000 fans in the stadium. That's not far off our usual attendance and with no away fans should give us an advantage. How can that be fair to clubs who aren't allowed fans in?


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## pauljames87 (Nov 27, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Plus the fact that Colchester in tier 2 will be allowed 2000 fans in the stadium. That's not far off our usual attendance and with no away fans should give us an advantage. How can that be fair to clubs who aren't allowed fans in?
		
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No singing or shouting tho so arsenal would have massive advantage

We play 100% better without our over negative moaning fans


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## funkycoldmedina (Nov 27, 2020)




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## hairball_89 (Nov 28, 2020)

Not good enough from the reds. Brighton fully deserved the draw. Could easily have won it. Commentators really want to bring the controversy with VAR but all 3 decisions were correct.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 28, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Not good enough from the reds. Brighton fully deserved the draw. Could easily have won it. Commentators really want to bring the controversy with VAR but all 3 decisions were correct.
		
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Brighton need to work on their shooting for sure .. missing a pen criminal


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## hairball_89 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Brighton need to work on their shooting for sure .. missing a pen criminal
		
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2 missed against us in a row with de Bruyne! I'll take that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2020)

Well I guess everything is going to be refereed by VAR now , i thought the whole idea of VAR overturning “clear and obvious” decisions - but it looks like it’s going to be every single decision will be looked at in slow motion will the smallest detail. Was always in belief that VAR was going to ruin the sport and as each week goes by that is happening. The fluid imperfect game is no longer with us - and I also thought they brought in tolerances for offsides ?! 

Maybe it’s just me but the enjoyment of the game is being sucked dry


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## Cherry13 (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well I guess everything is going to be refereed by VAR now , i thought the whole idea of VAR overturning “clear and obvious” decisions - but it looks like it’s going to be every single decision will be looked at in slow motion will the smallest detail. Was always in belief that VAR was going to ruin the sport and as each week goes by that is happening. The fluid imperfect game is no longer with us - and I also thought they brought in tolerances for offsides ?! 

Maybe it’s just me but the enjoyment of the game is being sucked dry
		
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Once it was looked at, do you think it was a penalty?


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## Cherry13 (Nov 28, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Once it was looked at, do you think it was a penalty?
		
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I agree with all of your points above mind.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

My understanding of a foul is impeding a player taking a shot, making a pass etc. Welbeck isn't in control of the ball and is going away from the ball, never a pen.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Once it was looked at, do you think it was a penalty?
		
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50/50 - both kicking for ball , didn’t see if any of them touched it , wouldn’t call it a definite penalty


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## Cherry13 (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			My understanding of a foul is impeding a player taking a shot, making a pass etc. Welbeck isn't in control of the ball and is going away from the ball, never a pen.
		
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Was the challenge by White(?) on Jota a foul that led to the disallowed Mane goal?


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## Cherry13 (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			50/50 - both kicking for ball , didn’t see if any of them touched it , wouldn’t call it a definite penalty
		
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Welbeck touched it, but didn’t have it under control, he played it against Robertson’s left knee.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			My understanding of a foul is impeding a player taking a shot, making a pass etc. Welbeck isn't in control of the ball and is going away from the ball, never a pen.
		
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Said this the other week in the Newcastle v Everton game the other week when Gomes kicked Wilson’s foot to give them a pen, made even worse after the match when Wilson laughed and admitted he put his foot between Gomes and the ball on purpose to “win” the penalty!


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

Klopp is offering good value in his chat. Nice little dig at Wilder 😂😂


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Was the challenge by White(?) on Jota a foul that led to the disallowed Mane goal?
		
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Yes. he's won the ball then took the man, we see these fouls given in every single game. Not that it makes a difference to the Brighton pen like.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Said this the other week in the Newcastle v Everton game the other week when Gomes kicked Wilson’s foot to give them a pen, made even worse after the match when Wilson laughed and admitted he put his foot between Gomes and the ball on purpose to “win” the penalty!
		
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Poor. 

Do we really want football going down this road?

Crouch and Cole saying its a pen proves the myth that ex players would make good refs.


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## garyinderry (Nov 28, 2020)

Hes taken a full blooded swing to clear the ball and is a fraction late and caught the man. 

It's a penalty all day long.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Poor.

Do we really want football going down this road?

Crouch and Cole saying its a pen proves the myth that ex players would make good refs.
		
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That’s because 99% of players, ex-players, managers, coaches etc, see no problem in a player “winning” a penalty for their team.

Not many neutral fans care when it isn’t in their game either.

Until managers condemn their own players (very unlikely to happen) or retrospective action is taken, nothing will change.

Remember when Niasse and Lanzini got retrospective bans for diving? They were over 3 years ago and not one other PL player has been done since then!


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			Hes taken a full blooded swing to clear the ball and is a fraction late and caught the man.

It's a penalty all day long.
		
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Just because he's caught him doesn't make it a foul. Contact yes, not a foul.

He's behind the ball by some way, over stretching and had lost control of the ball.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s because 99% of players, ex-players, managers, coaches etc, see no problem in a player “winning” a penalty for their team.

Not many neutral fans care when it isn’t in their game either.

Until managers condemn their own players (very unlikely to happen) or retrospective action is taken, nothing will change.

Remember when Niasse and Lanzini got retrospective bans for diving? They were over 3 years ago and not one other PL player has been done since then!
		
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If they retrospectively banned players for diving there'd be no football. 

Like the 6seconds rule for keepers and moving the free kicks 10yards for dissent.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

contact now seems to = a foul, its garbage. see players scratched on their shin, arch the back, tuck the chin in and make like a salmon heading up stream as if thats the natural response to minor contact

sadly the authorities players, commentators and pretty much everyone in football is happy to endorse this view when it suits them and only complain when it goes against them (add in a lot of fans here too), not to mention praising players for going down/winning free kicks/pens

fully expect a proportion of top sides training sessions currently are spent on "winning" penalties

time for some proper rules enforcement and retrospective punishment for cheating - i can but dream haha


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If they retrospectively banned players for diving there'd be no football.

Like the 6seconds rule for keepers and moving the free kicks 10yards for dissent.
		
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theyd soon change if they kept getting penalised, rather than accepting it and it becoming endemic within the sport as it sadly has done


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## hairball_89 (Nov 28, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			Hes taken a full blooded swing to clear the ball and is a fraction late and caught the man.

It's a penalty all day long.
		
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Completely agree. If it was up the other end on Mane I'd have been screaming for it. Easy decision for me. 

If it were up the other end there would be a lot more criticism of the way welbeck went down, however!


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## pauljames87 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s because 99% of players, ex-players, managers, coaches etc, see no problem in a player “winning” a penalty for their team.

Not many neutral fans care when it isn’t in their game either.

Until managers condemn their own players (very unlikely to happen) or retrospective action is taken, nothing will change.

Remember when Niasse and Lanzini got retrospective bans for diving? They were over 3 years ago and not one other PL player has been done since then!
		
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Whilst the decision was correct for both being banned for diving it's always the lesser clubs and never the elite punished which say Salah got done for diving (just an example before I get jumped on) so high profile it would make people take note 

When I did my referee training many years ago they wanted us to clamp down on grassroots football swearing. The ref running the course was on the money when he said the easiest way to enforce it is take a player like Rooney and ban him. He does it weekly on camera but the premier League don't have the guts to red card him. If he was sent off it would filter down through the league's but no they wanted to treat the symptoms not the cause of issues (not Rooney but players at the top)


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## Orikoru (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just because he's caught him doesn't make it a foul. Contact yes, not a foul.

He's behind the ball by some way, over stretching and had lost control of the ball.
		
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The ball doesn't even have to be there, he's absolutely wellied him in the foot man! If you push someone over in the box and they don't have the ball it's a penalty. Where have you got this idea that he needs to be in full control of the ball?? I didn't think it was a penalty until you see the replay and he boots Welbeck's foot. Good use of VAR this time, and a definite pen.


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## pendodave (Nov 28, 2020)

As someone whose team was turned over by a pen awarded for a passing contact with Salah's foot a couple of weeks ago, I'm in grave danger of choking on my schadenfraude...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

This is never a penalty in a million years, Robertson goes to clear the ball and Welbeck gets there first.

Absolutely no intent and no way Robertson could avoid the contact, an accidental coming together, no more, no less.

Anyone believing that’s a penalty needs to give their head a shake.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332691793293438986


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 28, 2020)

Definitely a pen for me 😊


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## davemc1 (Nov 28, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			Hes taken a full blooded swing to clear the ball and is a fraction late and caught the man. 

It's a penalty all day long.
		
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Maybe it was, but is that the point?

You have a former ref arguing it wasn’t, so how can it be a clear and obvious decision to overturn it?

I don’t know the rules
I’m guessing the average fella doesn’t know the rules 
It seems clear to me the officials don’t know the rules

We’re all aguin like divvies whilst the balloonhead/s who made them up is nowhere to be seen or more importantly, heard


Var will clear all the arguments up they said 🙄


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## garyinderry (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			This is never a penalty in a million years, Robertson goes to clear the ball and Wellbeck gets there first.

Absolutely no intent and no way Robertson could avoid the contact, an accidental coming together, no more, no less.

Anyone believing that’s a penalty needs to give their head a shake.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332691793293438986

Click to expand...



It's not a case of him putting a foot in to touch the ball and the feet make contact. 

Hes taken a full swing and a miss at the ball and caught the man. 


Couldn't be simpler.   The ref took one look at the screen and made his mind up.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

Its a pen for me. 

Anywhere else you take a swipe at the ball amd miss it and connect with a player then a foul is given.
Whether it was clear enough that var should have got involved is another matter.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			It's not a case of him putting a foot in to touch the ball and the feet make contact. 

Hes taken a full swing and a miss at the ball and caught the man. 


Couldn't be simpler.   The ref took one look at the screen and made his mind up.
		
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He had a great view and seen it in real time.  The ref in the bunker has  said go and have a look at the monitor, surely that has put some doubt in his mind. 

Everything in slow motion looks worse.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			It's not a case of him putting a foot in to touch the ball and the feet make contact.

Hes taken a full swing and a miss at the ball and caught the man.


Couldn't be simpler.   The ref took one look at the screen and made his mind up.
		
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Where’s the intent, you’ve said yourself he was playing the ball, ie, it was an accident, a simple coming together, he never mistimed his swing, without Welbecks touch that ball is row Z.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			The ball doesn't even have to be there, he's absolutely wellied him in the foot man! If you push someone over in the box and they don't have the ball it's a penalty. Where have you got this idea that he needs to be in full control of the ball?? I didn't think it was a penalty until you see the replay and he boots Welbeck's foot. Good use of VAR this time, and a definite pen.
		
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Wellied him?? 

Yeah alright 🙄🙄


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Its a pen for me.

Anywhere else you take a swipe at the ball amd miss it and connect with a player then a foul is given.
Whether it was clear enough that var should have got involved is another matter.
		
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I’d agree if Welbeck or any opposition player is between the one swinging and the ball, in this case, Wellbeck isn’t, he’s to the side, the only way there is contact is by Welbeck sticking his leg out.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Where’s the intent, you’ve said yourself he was playing the ball, ie, it was an accident, a simple coming together, he never mistimed his swing, without Wellbecks touch that ball is row Z.
		
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If a keeper slides out at a striker and the striker nips the ball away and gets clattered it's a pen. If the striker doesn't touch the ball then as long as the keeper claims it, he can clatter the player too.

Same principle for the clearance imo. I'm not sure intent has to be present. Although I do recall Stevie G years ago (sheff Utd I believe) getting a pen when a player intended to foul him and missed 😂😂



pauldj42 said:



			I’d agree if Wellbeck or any opposition player is between the one swinging and the ball, in this case, Wellbeck isn’t, he’s to the side, the only way there is contact is by Wellbeck sticking his leg out.
		
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Yeah, but Wellbeck sticks his leg out and wins the ball.


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## garyinderry (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Where’s the intent, you’ve said yourself he was playing the ball, ie, it was an accident, a simple coming together, he never mistimed his swing, without Wellbecks touch that ball is row Z.
		
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He intended to boot the ball. Welbeck moves the ball away and gets clattered. 


He intended to boot the ball.  Failed
Mistimes his challenge. 

It's at best careless but a foul none the less.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			If a keeper slides out at a striker and the striker nips the ball away and gets clattered it's a pen. If the striker doesn't touch the ball then as long as the keeper claims it, he can clatter the player too.

Same principle for the clearance imo. I'm not sure intent has to be present. Although I do recall Stevie G years ago (sheff Utd I believe) getting a pen when a player intended to foul him and missed 😂😂
		
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Depends on how the keeper “slides out” surely? If he’s sliding along the grass out of control then yes.

For that to be a pen for me, Robertson would have to be aware he had a chance of kicking Wellbeck full on, nobody commits a foul by kicking the underneath of a foot.

Every player that loses a 50/50 ball should now be given a foul against them if that’s a pen.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			He intended to boot the ball. Welbeck moves the ball away and gets clattered.


He intended to boot the ball.  Failed
Mistimes his challenge.

It's at best careless but a foul none the less.
		
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It wasn’t mistimed, Welbeck came in from the side quicker, as for clattered! Please, he caught the underneath of his boot.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Depends on how the keeper “slides out” surely? If he’s sliding along the grass out of control then yes.

For that to be a pen for me, Robertson would have to be aware he had a chance of kicking Wellbeck full on, nobody commits a foul by kicking the underneath of a foot.

Every player that loses a 50/50 ball should now be given a foul against them if that’s a pen.
		
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Pretty much everytime a player loses a 50/50 and makes Contact with the opponent they do. 

Tbf I don't think I've ever seen a keeper connect with a striker (having not got the ball) and it not be giving as a pen.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Pretty much everytime a player loses a 50/50 and makes Contact with the opponent they do.

Tbf I don't think I've ever seen a keeper connect with a striker (having not got the ball) and it not be giving as a pen.
		
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Pickford

In all seriousness you really can’t compare a keeper going head on at a player against that this afternoon, Welbeck got there a fraction quicker than Robertson and their boots made contact, absolute no more, no less, just a coming together.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Pickford

In all seriousness you really can’t compare a keeper going head on at a player against that this afternoon, Welbeck got there a fraction quicker than Robertson and their boots made contact, absolute no more, no less, just a coming together.
		
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Time to move as as we clearerly disagree. 

But as Dave said. That's VAR's fault as it was meant to stop all this 😂


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Time to move as as we clearerly disagree. 

But as Dave said. That's VAR's fault as it was meant to stop all this 😂
		
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It's the fools using the technology that's the problem. 

The standard of refereeing across the PL is generally awful. Until that improves nothing will change.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's the fools using the technology that's the problem.

The standard of refereeing across the PL is generally awful. Until that improves nothing will change.
		
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Plus the players have a responsibility to stop trying to con the Officials.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's the fools using the technology that's the problem.

The standard of refereeing across the PL is generally awful. Until that improves nothing will change.
		
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Rules actually arent clear, especially those that have been changed/adjusted over the last few years, refs are totally inconsistent, var is just magnifying these problems and compounded by the actions/comments from tv, players, managers etc when someone like KDB openly admits he doesnt know the rules anymore in an interview

Basically its a shitshow currently and theres little chance of getting better anytime soon


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It wasn’t mistimed, Welbeck came in from the side quicker, as for clattered! Please, he caught the underneath of his boot.
		
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Which is a foul and, therefore, a penalty.

Doesn't have to  be intent.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2020)

The main issue I have is the clear and obvious part, the ref saw it and decided it wasn’t a penalty based on his assessment of the situation. The VAR checks it - if it’s clear and obvious they should then just say - you got it wrong it’s a penalty but as soon as they say go to screen they add some level of doubt. If the ref has given it then there is no issues at all because you could see why.

The talk from the start was that the match wouldn’t be refereed by the VAR ref and he is there only for clear and obvious errors by the referee - no either that’s gone and they just now do everything or the VAR are taking matters into their own hands

Either way the addition of VAR is killing the enjoyment of the game


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Which is a foul and, therefore, a penalty.

Doesn't have to  be intent.
		
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And an accidental coming together isn’t a foul either.🤷‍♂️


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The main issue I have is the clear and obvious part, the ref saw it and decided it wasn’t a penalty based on his assessment of the situation. The VAR checks it - if it’s clear and obvious they should then just say - you got it wrong it’s a penalty but as soon as they say go to screen they add some level of debt. If the ref has given it then there is no issues at all because you could see why.

The talk from the start was that the match wouldn’t be refereed by the VAR ref and he is there only for clear and obvious errors by the referee - no either that’s gone and they just now do everything or the VAR are taking matters into their own hands

*Either way the addition of VAR is killing the enjoyment of the game*

Click to expand...



In time I think it will be fine. People will get used to it because it isn't going anywhere. Eventually you either accept it, or stop watching (for the majority an idle threat). 

Personally I'm happier waiting 20 seconds and having the right decision given against my team compared to 35 years of numerous dubious decisons, which don't even out over the course of a season. 

I think the suggestion only of clear and obvious woukd be checked is their biggest mistake. Everyone has a different opinion as to what is obvious or not.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			In time I think it will be fine. People will get used to it because it isn't going anywhere. Eventually you either accept it, or stop watching (for the majority an idle threat).

Personally I'm happier waiting 20 seconds and having the right decision given against my team compared to 35 years of numerous dubious decisons, which don't even out over the course of a season.

I think the suggestion only of clear and obvious woukd be checked is their biggest mistake. Everyone has a different opinion as to what is obvious or not.
		
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that would be great if they were getting the right decisions, theyre not, theyre just creating different arguments currently


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			In time I think it will be fine. People will get used to it because it isn't going anywhere. Eventually you either accept it, or stop watching (for the majority an idle threat).

Personally I'm happier waiting 20 seconds and having the right decision given against my team compared to 35 years of numerous dubious decisons, which don't even out over the course of a season.

I think the suggestion only of clear and obvious woukd be checked is their biggest mistake. Everyone has a different opinion as to what is obvious or not.
		
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But it’s getting worse 

The offsides and the finite lines, the “shirt shadow” , poor decisions still happening 

You only have to look at the Pickford tackle on VVD 

VAR was supposed to get rid of all the doubts but it doesn’t - if anything it’s now worse. People used to have a grumble about the poor decisions but it didn’t dominate every single week - VAR is 

Today Brighton played very well - not one single talk about them , all about VAR and that’s the same every week.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And an accidental coming together isn’t a foul either.🤷‍♂️
		
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According to the Laws of the game there is no distinction between deliberate and accidental.

It is not accidental, it is careless.


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## Kellfire (Nov 28, 2020)

Kicking someone’s foot because you missed the ball is not an accidental coming together. That’s as clear a pen as VAR will give all year.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			that would be great if they were getting the right decisions, theyre not, theyre just creating different arguments currently
		
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But the difference for me is that now all 20 teams subject to the mistakes.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			But the difference for me is that now all 20 teams subject to the mistakes.
		
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not actually sure it is fully but i get what youre saying. changing how it is wrong isnt really progress though is it


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But it’s getting worse

The offsides and the finite lines, the “shirt shadow” , poor decisions still happening

You only have to look at the Pickford tackle on VVD

VAR was supposed to get rid of all the doubts but it doesn’t - if anything it’s now worse. People used to have a grumble about the poor decisions but it didn’t dominate every single week - VAR is

Today Brighton played very well - not one single talk about them , all about VAR and that’s the same every week.
		
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The thing is, offside is offside as far as they have decided. I agree that in the split second a defender and forward move in opposite directions it will most likely offer the defence an advantage. 

But as to the other decisions. Imo all 20 teams have been subject to descrepancies in relative equal measure. That wasn't always (hardly ever) for smaller clubs pre VAR.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Why do they still have stadium announcers?
		
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Sshhhhhhh. Keep quiet or they will lose their jobs.

I did hear a radio commentator mention that some grounds are also still playing music at half time, after the match and so on, to no one in particular. I guess it is just habit, routine, a reminder of what once was 😢


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			not actually sure it is fully but i get what youre saying. changing how it is wrong isnt really progress though is it
		
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No it's not right, but I would argue its certainly less unfair.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



*The thing is, offside is offside as far as they have decided*. I agree that in the split second a defender and forward move in opposite directions it will most likely offer the defence an advantage.

But as to the other decisions. Imo all 20 teams have been subject to descrepancies in relative equal measure. That wasn't always (hardly ever) for smaller clubs pre VAR.
		
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that would be great if they were sure of what frame the ball was actually kicked in. they arent, they guess. the difference between a frame can be about a foot. be 3 frames out and youre a yard out. but lets measure armpit hair to a fraction of an inch 

they are portraying the offside decisions as fact, they are anything but still because of the lottery of the frame that is chosen for the still frame to draw the lines on


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			The thing is, offside is offside as far as they have decided. I agree that in the split second a defender and forward move in opposite directions it will most likely offer the defence an advantage.

*But as to the other decisions. Imo all 20 teams have been subject to descrepancies in relative equal measure. That wasn't always (hardly ever) for smaller clubs pre VAR.*

Click to expand...

I don’t think that’s true is it ? Which team gained most last year from VAR - Man Utd , Newcastle were bottom of the pile. So far this season Liverpool have had double the amount of VAR overturns . There is still no balance between team

And the offside - they don’t seem to look at when the ball actually leaves the players foot in the same frame


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			that would be great if they were sure of what frame the ball was actually kicked in. they arent, they guess. the difference between a frame can be about a foot. be 3 frames out and youre a yard out. but lets measure armpit hair to a fraction of an inch

they are portraying the offside decisions as fact, they are anything but still because of the lottery of the frame that is chosen for the still frame to draw the lines on
		
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That's pretty much what I was getting at with my very next sentence lol

The thing is though, whatever line they use it could be argued as inaccurate because like you say. A frame covers about a ft, and they aren't gonna say offside is now any player a foot offside.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			that would be great if they were sure of what frame the ball was actually kicked in. they arent, they guess. the difference between a frame can be about a foot. be 3 frames out and youre a yard out. but lets measure armpit hair to a fraction of an inch

they are portraying the offside decisions as fact, they are anything but still because of the lottery of the frame that is chosen for the still frame to draw the lines on
		
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Why not use the concept in cricket of umpires call? They know they can't guarantee mm so they allow a margin of error.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t think that’s true is it ? Which team gained most last year from VAR - Man Utd , Newcastle were bottom of the pile. So far this season Liverpool have had double the amount of VAR overturns . There is still no balance between team
		
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What I said doesn't mean every team will get the same amount of changes because of VAR, or that teams won't have more benefit than others, it simply means that when it does intervene, most can see why. They may not like it, off side too tight etc. But, you can see why decisons are given. 

20 years ago more dubious decisons went in favour of big teams. That's not even up for debate imo.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why not use the concept in cricket of umpires call? They know they can't guarantee mm so they allow a margin of error.
		
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they certainly need to go down this route or something similar imo (at least until theres a chip in each players boots and a chip in the ball and the lines are automatically drawn


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			According to the Laws of the game there is no distinction between deliberate and accidental.

It is not accidental, it is careless.
		
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Sorry mate, I disagree, take the Wilson case the other week, he admitted he couldn’t reach the ball and deliberately put his foot between Gomes and ball, both incidents were identical in contact, ie, completely accidental, yet you’re writing them both off as careless.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The main issue I have is the clear and obvious part, the ref saw it and decided it wasn’t a penalty based on his assessment of the situation. The VAR checks it - if it’s clear and obvious they should then just say - you got it wrong it’s a penalty but as soon as they say go to screen they add some level of doubt. If the ref has given it then there is no issues at all because you could see why.

The talk from the start was that the match wouldn’t be refereed by the VAR ref and he is there only for clear and obvious errors by the referee - no either that’s gone and they just now do everything or the VAR are taking matters into their own hands

Either way the addition of VAR is killing the enjoyment of the game
		
Click to expand...


My issue is VAR is getting involved with subjective calls. Now unless it's a howler VAR shouldn't be getting involved. The ref had a perfect view of the incident and waved play on. Subjective. That should've been the end of it. 

White made a bad foul on Jota in the 1st half and the  ref never carded him. It was as clear a card possible, the ref decided  to warn him. Again subjective.  

Look at the CL games last week, I forgot VAR existed because there was barely any interuption from it. 

Today its gone against us, tomorrow it'll be someone else. Irrespective of who it goes against, is this really how we want to  see the game going?


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## 4LEX (Nov 28, 2020)

VAR isn't here to stay by any means. It was brought in to correct mistakes and all it's done is transfer the mistake chain from the ref to some nomark in a studio. If anything it makes the mistakes even worse as someone has looked at it 10 times and still made a mistake! Let's get the fans back in and they can protest through fair means and foul over some of this nonsense.

It should be for offsides and off the ball incidents only. For pens the ref should be in the right position to judge, if he isn't he's not good enough or fit enough. Sick of seeing a goal go in and then players waiting around for a VAR review. Totally kills the game. The refs are losing their bottle and relying on VAR. Anyone that goes to games knows a good ref or a bad ref by how much they look to the linesman for back up. A good ref is in the right place and knows what he's seen, a bad one is playing catch up and looking to the lines for reassurance constantly.

The refs should be put through much tougher fitness programmes, it's absurd to see fat middle aged men trying to keep up with 20 year olds.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			My issue is VAR is getting involved with subjective calls. Now unless it's a howler VAR shouldn't be getting involved. The ref had a perfect view of the incident and waved play on. *Subjective*. That should've been the end of it.

White made a bad foul on Jota in the 1st half and the  ref never carded him. It was as clear a card possible, the ref decided  to warn him. Again subjective. 

Look at the CL games last week, I forgot VAR existed because there was barely any interuption from it.

Today its gone against us, tomorrow it'll be someone else. Irrespective of who it goes against, is this really how we want to  see the game going?
		
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Do you agree that in the past bigger teams got run of the green with more than their fair share of subjective decisions?

if the pen wasn’t given, it would Have been another one of those, “they even themselves out over the course of a season Calls“except they don’t Imo. 

Irrespective of our thoughts on whether it was a pen or not, this thread and the discussion about it shows that it clearly wasn’t an obvious decision imo. Of course if we had a trained ref on here who could clear it up. That may help


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Do you agree that in the past bigger teams got run of the green with more than their fair share of subjective decisions?

if the pen wasn’t given, it would Have been another one of those, “they even themselves out over the course of a season Calls“except they don’t Imo.

Irrespective of our thoughts on whether it was a pen or not, this thread and the discussion about it shows that it clearly wasn’t an obvious decision imo. Of course if we had a trained ref on here who could clear it up. That may help 

Click to expand...

do you believe they are even now? i know fans of "non big 6" clubs (esp Wham lol) who still think theyre not


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

4LEX said:



			VAR isn't here to stay by any means. It was brought in to correct mistakes and all it's done is transfer the mistake chain from the ref to some nomark in a studio. If anything it makes the mistakes even worse as someone has looked at it 10 times and still made a mistake! Let's get the fans back in and they can protest through fair means and foul over some of this nonsense.

It should be for offsides and off the ball incidents only. For pens the ref should be in the right position to judge, if he isn't he's not good enough or fit enough. Sick of seeing a goal go in and then players waiting around for a VAR review. Totally kills the game. The refs are losing their bottle and relying on VAR. Anyone that goes to games knows a good ref or a bad ref by how much they look to the linesman for back up. A good ref is in the right place and knows what he's seen, a bad one is playing catch up and looking to the lines for reassurance constantly.

*The refs should be put through much tougher fitness programmes, it's absurd to see fat middle aged men trying to keep up with 20 year olds.*

Click to expand...

Have you seen the regime they have to pass? 

Plus If there is a swift counter with like 2 mid range passes, Usain Bolt ain't keeping up with play properly.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			do you believe they are even now? i know fans of "non big 6" clubs (esp Wham lol) who still think theyre not
		
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I can only go with Saints decisons, as other teams decisons don't really stick with me the next day. 

But imo yes. Things are much better now. I can't really recall any decision where I haven't been able to at least think to myself that I can see their pov even if I don't fully agree with it.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I can only go with Saints decisons, as other teams decisons don't really stick with me the next day.

But imo yes. Things are much better now. I can't really recall any decision where I haven't been able to at least think to myself that I can see their pov even if I don't fully agree with it.
		
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weve finally found the fan fully happy with var  cheeers


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## BiMGuy (Nov 28, 2020)

Can someone please explain how Leeds didn't get a penalty for handball?


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## Kellfire (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Do you agree that in the past bigger teams got run of the green with more than their fair share of subjective decisions?
		
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Haha no of course not because it’s not true. Small man syndrome makes people think this is true.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Can someone please explain how Leeds didn't get a penalty for handball?
		
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because it wasnt handball, it hit him with his arms in a normal position in the shadow of his body from about a yard away


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## BiMGuy (Nov 28, 2020)

Arm sticking out and moving towards the ball like that isn't normal!


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Arm sticking out and moving towards the ball like that isn't normal!
		
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assume you have Leeds tints on your glasses?


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## BiMGuy (Nov 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			assume you have Leeds tints on your glasses?
		
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White Rose tinted. Yes 🤓

But regardless of that it should be a pen. 

And regardless of that we should be well in front.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			White Rose tinted. Yes 🤓

But regardless of that it should be a pen.

And regardless of that we should be well in front.
		
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you should definitely be in front, danger of last week against us repeating itself if youre not careful. at least youre playing some decent football

ps still never a penalty


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## Fish (Nov 28, 2020)

Forget the popcorn, where’s the Kleenex 😜


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry mate, I disagree, take the Wilson case the other week, he admitted he couldn’t reach the ball and deliberately put his foot between Gomes and ball, both incidents were identical in contact, ie, completely accidental, yet you’re writing them both off as careless.
		
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Why do you persist with the use of the word "accidental"?

It is completely irrelevant. 

Robertson made an effort to play the ball but failed and instead made contact with the player.

It is a foul, whatever you think about his intent, and thus quite rightly a penalty. 

Many fouls are as a result of  a genuine attempt to play the ball that failed.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Do you agree that in the past bigger teams got run of the green with more than their fair share of subjective decisions?

if the pen wasn’t given, it would Have been another one of those, “they even themselves out over the course of a season Calls“except they don’t Imo.

Irrespective of our thoughts on whether it was a pen or not, this thread and the discussion about it shows that it clearly wasn’t an obvious decision imo. *Of course if we had a trained ref on here who could clear it up. That may help* 

Click to expand...

No.

If the pen wasn't given, it wouldn't even be mentioned, that's how soft it was.

Again, it wasn't that blatant.

He should host a live Q&A webinar😁

I just can't wait for the reaction on here when Mane goes down like Welbeck did next week and he gets a pen🤭🤭


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## 4LEX (Nov 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Have you seen the regime they have to pass?

Plus If there is a swift counter with like 2 mid range passes, Usain Bolt ain't keeping up with play properly.
		
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I have and it's really poor. Yes a quick counter with swift passing is always going to be tough but that's why they should be so much fitter. Madley and Coote failed the fitness test as recently as this year.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2020)

Most of us on here have watched footy for years .
But the rules and interpretation of them have changed that much that I am not sure what’s a foul anymore.
I would say the ref didn’t think it was a foul on Wellbeck.
But in slow motion it does look like a foul. But players don’t play in slow motion.
It’s putting me off watching football and has done for a while.
The difference in opinions seems to back up that ,no one is sure of the rules as they are set for some latitude to justify the VAR decisions.
They need to admit it’s not working and bin it next season.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Why do they still have stadium announcers?
		
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It’s a H&S thing if they need to evacuate for any reason.
Not sure why the music though.!


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## Kellfire (Nov 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Most of us on here have watched footy for years .
But the rules and interpretation of them have changed that much that I am not sure what’s a foul anymore.
I would say the ref didn’t think it was a foul on Wellbeck.
But in slow motion it does look like a foul. But players don’t play in slow motion.
It’s putting me off watching football and has done for a while.
The difference in opinions seems to back up that ,no one is sure of the rules as they are set for some latitude to justify the VAR decisions.
They need to admit it’s not working and bin it next season.
		
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If he doesn’t think that’s a foul then he needs to be re-educated.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			If he doesn’t think that’s a foul then he needs to be re-educated.
		
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Well he needs to re-educate then because he didn’t give it .
He changed his mind after looking on the monitor.
So two decisions but one was wrong!!


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2020)

Kaz said:



			But, they announce the subs and everything as if there was a crowd there...?
		
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Prob just a requirement of the league.
It dosnt really make sense.
But without the crowds there are still a lot of people in the stadium.
But there must be a reason it’s a good question.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Haha no of course not because it’s not true. Small man syndrome makes people think this is true.
		
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Not sure my height has anything to do with favoritism 😉

Pretty sure past refs have acknowledged the effect of Fergie at old Trafford for example.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2020)

Not quite sure how Everton v Leeds is still 0-0. Entertaining to watch but both managers must be having palpitations.


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## Kellfire (Nov 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well he needs to re-educate then because he didn’t give it .
He changed his mind after looking on the monitor.
So two decisions but one was wrong!!
		
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Obviously because he didn’t see the kick at first.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not quite sure how Everton v Leeds is still 0-0. Entertaining to watch but both managers must be having palpitations.
		
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Some good defending but mainly poor finishing .


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Some good defending but mainly poor finishing .
		
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Agreed. I'm regretting my post now 😔


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Obviously because he didn’t see the kick at first.
		
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If he never he needs to go to  specsavers, he couldn't have been better positioned.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Obviously because he didn’t see the kick at first.
		
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Yes but by changing his decision he admits he got it wrong in real time.
He had a perfect view of it.
How many people on here have the luxury of someone bailing them out when they cock up in work.
Not many I would guess.
He didn’t give a pen until VAR told him he had missed something right in front of him.
I am not saying it’s not a foul but it’s wide open to interpretation and that’s the problem.


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## Kellfire (Nov 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but by changing his decision he admits he got it wrong in real time.
He had a perfect view of it.
How many people on here have the luxury of someone bailing them out when they cock up in work.
Not many I would guess.
He didn’t give a pen until VAR told him he had missed something right in front of him.
I am not saying it’s not a foul but it’s wide open to interpretation and that’s the problem.
		
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 So he missed a clear and obvious kick? Sounds like a perfect example of how VAR should work.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Why do you persist with the use of the word "accidental"?

It is completely irrelevant.

Robertson made an effort to play the ball but failed and instead made contact with the player.

It is a foul, whatever you think about his intent, and thus quite rightly a penalty.

Many fouls are as a result of  a genuine attempt to play the ball that failed.
		
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But not every contact is a foul, what makes this one any different! Players catch each other all over the field, it’s a contact sport.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Can't wait for fans to get back in stafiums, I've missed hearing the BOOOOOOOO'S at full time from Goodison🤭🤭


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Can't wait for fans to get back in stafiums, I've missed hearing the BOOOOOOOO'S at full time from Goodison🤭🤭
		
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Rent free


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Can't wait for fans to get back in stafiums, I've missed hearing the BOOOOOOOO'S at full time from Goodison🤭🤭
		
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Harsh given your poor performance midweek and giving a penalty away when you had the game won


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Can't wait for fans to get back in stafiums, I've missed hearing the BOOOOOOOO'S at full time from Goodison🤭🤭
		
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not noticed the difference at our games 

(easier i say it than someone else lol)


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But not every contact is a foul, what makes this one any different! Players catch each other all over the field, it’s a contact sport.
		
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They haven't just collided or made contact. Robertson has attempted to play the ball but ended up playing the man, albeit not massive contact. 

However, that contact was enough to impede Welbeck and thus it is a foul.

A large number of fouls may be seen as unintentional and, thus, not attract a card but they are still fouls.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			So he missed a clear and obvious kick? Sounds like a perfect example of how VAR should work.
		
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What about every pull ,push , shirt pull in the box should VAR tell him he has missed it?
In your quote that’s how VAR should work.

Everyone knows there are fouls in the game that would never be given in the box for a pen.
That’s one of them for me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			They haven't just collided or made contact. Robertson has attempted to play the ball but ended up playing the man, albeit not massive contact.

However, that contact was enough to impede Welbeck and thus it is a foul.

A large number of fouls may be seen as unintentional and, thus, not attract a card but they are still fouls.
		
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It didn’t impede Welbeck at all, he knocked the ball away, didn’t fall down and didn’t even appeal, from what I watched he took it as nothing more than part of the game.

A large number of coming togethers are unitentional and, thus, not attract anything, ie Play on.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It didn’t impede Welbeck at all, he knocked the ball away, didn’t fall down and didn’t even appeal, from what I watched he took it as nothing more than part of the game.

A large number of coming togethers are unitentional and, thus, not attract anything, ie Play on.
		
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None of that alters the fact that it was a foul.

Have we not, on a number of occasions, on here criticised players for going to ground too easily to be sure of getting the decision. 

Are we now saying that if they don't go down it shouldn't be a penalty?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			None of that alters the fact that it was a foul.

Have we not, on a number of occasions, on here criticised players for going to ground too easily to be sure of getting the decision.

Are we now saying that if they don't go down it shouldn't be a penalty?
		
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It was a foul under the letter of the law.
But how many times have you heard “ outside the box that’s a foul but you will never get a penalty for that”
That’s the problem imo if it’s a foul it’s a foul, dosnt matter where it is .
Refs have caused this problem themselves by not being consistent.
I havnt seen a pen given for shirt pulling for ages but have seen lots of shirt pulling so why havnt VAR reported them to the ref like they did today.
Ref was right by that today and didn’t give anything.
By reversing his decision he has proved his own incompetence.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			None of that alters the fact that it was a foul.

Have we not, on a number of occasions, on here criticised players for going to ground too easily to be sure of getting the decision.

Are we now saying that if they don't go down it shouldn't be a penalty?
		
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He could of dived like an Olympic gymnast for me mate and it was still not a penalty imo.

Honestly, if that’s a penalty I well and truly give up and I have defended VAR on here plenty of times.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			He could of dived like an Olympic gymnast for me mate and it was still not a penalty imo.

Honestly, if that’s a penalty I well and truly give up and I have defended VAR on here plenty of times.
		
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There we differ.

I have and will  never defend VAR as I abhor its introduction. 

Footballers and football fans should IMO grow up and accept referees' decisions. 

Refs in general make fewer mistakes than players yet we endlessly hear them being slaughtered for their errors.

The striker that balloons it over the bar or the keeper who chucks one in escapes such criticism. 

Why? I am often told that the players don't do it on purpose; well guess what, neither do the officials.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 28, 2020)

Bugger. Was hoping WBA v Sheffield U would be a draw. Best outcome for Fulham but can't see that happening on the strength of this. Sheffield going route one early


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			There we differ.

I have and will  never defend VAR as I abhor its introduction.

Footballers and football fans should IMO grow up and accept referees' decisions.

Refs in general make fewer mistakes than players yet we endlessly hear them being slaughtered for their errors.

The striker that balloons it over the bar or the keeper who chucks one in escapes such criticism.

Why? I am often told that the players don't do it on purpose; well guess what, neither do the officials.
		
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Thing is if players do it to much they get dropped.
VAR cocks up every week????


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thing is if players do it to much they get dropped.
VAR cocks up every week????
		
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Still get paid don't they and refs are assessed. 

They can be dropped down the lists which will reduce their income.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			There we differ.

I have and will  never defend VAR as I abhor its introduction.

*Footballers and football fans should IMO grow up and accept referees' decisions.*

Refs in general make fewer mistakes than players yet we endlessly hear them being slaughtered for their errors.

The striker that balloons it over the bar or the keeper who chucks one in escapes such criticism.

Why? I am often told that the players don't do it on purpose; well guess what, neither do the officials.
		
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Those who complained most for VAR were in the media,ex players and armchair fans. 

Sky sports news showing 756 different angles of a foul/handball/offside in slow mo growing the agenda.

VAR is sucking the emotion out of football, it plays a huge part in the game. Celebrating goals is one of the best feelings, now I'm sitting here waiting for VAR to confirm it. By the time is done that emotion has gone.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Still get paid don't they and refs are assessed.

They can be dropped down the lists which will reduce their income.
		
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That rarely happens, that's why we've still got Stuart Atwell refereeing, 10yrs after the ghost goal and he's still rubbish.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			There we differ.

I have and will  never defend VAR as I abhor its introduction.

Footballers and football fans should IMO grow up and accept referees' decisions.

Refs in general make fewer mistakes than players yet we endlessly hear them being slaughtered for their errors.

The striker that balloons it over the bar or the keeper who chucks one in escapes such criticism.

Why? I am often told that the players don't do it on purpose; well guess what, neither do the officials.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately mate, I’ve defended the Officials on numerous occassions, every part of the game needs addressing.

Genuinely not sure if you saw this incident live, but there was no reason to question the Referee, the idiot in Stockley Park and his 20 angles and slow mo etc has caused this. You know enough about football, watch it if you get a chance and you’ll see the Ref’s positioning etc was just about spot on!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That rarely happens, that's why we've still got Stuart Atwell refereeing, 10yrs after the ghost goal and he's still rubbish.
		
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And there are still players in the PL who were poor years ago and continue to be so.

If players were as perfect as some expect refs to be then there would be no open goals missed, all tackles would be successful etc;


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 28, 2020)

I must admit, if it was White kicking Salah in the same situation I'd be asking for a penalty.

It would have deffo have been a penalty for United though, 20 years ago, as well as now.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Still get paid don't they and refs are assessed.

They can be dropped down the lists which will reduce their income.
		
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I didn’t mean the refs I meant VAR .
I can accept a ref making a mistake .
But to actually prove himself wrong by using slow mo 
That’s the difference between them and players making mistakes .
Players only get one go in real time
Refs get another go in slow motion to prove they got it wrong in real time.
Most fans accept refs make mistakes, 
But the VAR decisions are just another refs opinion.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			And there are still players in the PL who were poor years ago and continue to be so.

If players were as perfect as some expect refs to be then there would be no open goals missed, all tackles would be successful etc;
		
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Thats upto the managers of the players putting up with those players. You can't accept sub standard refereeing just because there's sub standard players. 

A ref will never please everyone and get every decision correct, its impossible. 

I think there's plenty of refs who haven't improved and are still consistently rubbish. We rarely see new refs being promoted.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



*I must admit, if it was White kicking Salah in the same situation I'd be asking for a penalty*.

It would have deffo have been a penalty for United though, 20 years ago, as well as now.

Click to expand...

Why?


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Why?
		
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Why not?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why not?
		
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Because its not a pen. Do you think it was a pen?


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## 4LEX (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			It would have deffo have been a penalty for United though, 20 years ago, as well as now.

Click to expand...

Actuallly Liverpool had the highest home penalty ratio in the 90/00's. It's only since Ole came in has Man Utd's ratio gone up through the roof.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Because its not a pen. Do you think it was a pen?
		
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I think its a subjective one and many things surround the decision, but can understand if it would have been given under normal circumstances.

Are you saying that you wouldnt have appealed for that if it was for us, at the ground?


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 28, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Actuallly Liverpool had the highest home penalty ratio in the 90/00's. It's only since Ole came in has Man Utd's ratio gone up through the roof.
		
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Shut up soft lad.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think its a subjective one and many things surround the decision, but can understand if it would have been given under normal circumstances.

Are you saying that you wouldnt have appealed for that if it was for us, at the ground?
		
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Be careful of those splinters.....I knew you'd ask for it, because you're a hard faced get 😁😁

100% Not a chance am I appealing for that. The ref had a clear view and played on.

I agree its subjective but the context in the incident,He (robbo) never impeded Welbeck. He'd lost control of the ball, was overstretching, it was behind him and was never in a position for a shot/pass etc.

Considering them sort of incidents happen often we won't see many more pens given for the rest of the season.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Actuallly Liverpool had the highest home penalty ratio in the 90/00's. It's only since Ole came in has Man Utd's ratio gone up through the roof.
		
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How many were given against Liverpool compared to Yernited in that time?


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Be careful of those splinters.....I knew you'd ask for it, because you're a hard faced get 😁😁

100% Not a chance am I appealing for that. The ref had a clear view and played on.

I agree its subjective but the context in the incident,He (robbo) never impeded Welbeck. He'd lost control of the ball, was overstretching, it was behind him and was never in a position for a shot/pass etc.

Considering them sort of incidents happen often we won't see many more pens given for the rest of the season.
		
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As I said, not a cast iron, dead obvious one and it was also a glancing blow and was probably only given as was seen in slow-mo, but a 51% pen. 

Maybe slow-mo shouldnt be used for fouls, just for ones to see if a ball was in play, out of play, pen was in the box or outside, but not for the contacts, especially if living up to the "clear and obvious" mantra. 

As shown on MOTD, did you think the west ham one on Mo was?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			As I said, not a cast iron, dead obvious one and it was also a glancing blow and was probably only given as was seen in slow-mo, but a 51% pen. 

Maybe slow-mo shouldnt be used for fouls, just for ones to see if a ball was in play, out of play, pen was in the box or outside, but not for the contacts, especially if living up to the "clear and obvious" mantra.

As shown on MOTD, did you think the west ham one on Mo was?
		
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Completely different, Salah was in full control of the ball and Ogbonna made a tackle  and never won the ball. That said i don't think it was a pen.

I've said this many times to you, pens are being given now because previously wrong ones have been given so they're now acceptable. 

Today's was a 50/50. I think when refs look at the monitor they need to watch the full clip  and not just a slow mo of the contact. Just stick it in the bin and improve the standard of refereeing.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Completely different, Salah was in full control of the ball and Ogbonna made a tackle  and never won the ball. That said i don't think it was a pen.

I've said this many times to you, pens are being given now because previously wrong ones have been given so they're now acceptable.

Today's was a 50/50. I think when refs look at the monitor they need to *watch the full clip  and not just a slow mo of the contact.* Just stick it in the bin and improve the standard of refereeing.
		
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I don’t think they should even use slow mo. If we Are still using humans to make the decision then their opinion should be based on what they can actually see.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Completely different, Salah was in full control of the ball and Ogbonna made a tackle  and never won the ball. That said i don't think it was a pen.

I've said this many times to you, pens are being given now because previously wrong ones have been given so they're now acceptable.

Today's was a 50/50. I think when refs look at the monitor they need to watch the full clip  and not just a slow mo of the contact. Just stick it in the bin and improve the standard of refereeing.
		
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The contact was similar, just other things different. 

Ive told you, you live an a refereeing utopia. You may get small gains but not large ones.

At least Ive now got you down to 50%.


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## sawtooth (Nov 29, 2020)

The same fans that celebrate penalties caused by micro touches are now up in arms when a penalty is awarded against them. 

What happened to  “if the player gets touched he’s entitled to go down”  all of a sudden? We heard that every week last year when Mane and Salah went to ground so easily.

And as for offsides , VAR was spot on yesterday but because decisions went against Liverpool they don’t like it all of a sudden, no surprise there.

You couldn’t make this stuff up.😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Nov 29, 2020)

Re Salah and the offside, it was offside by millimetres, VAR was correct it’s the offside ruling that’s wrong. When a goal is scored, a corner, goal kick, throw in.  The whole of the ball has to be over the line. Yet for off side, a few millimetres off side and your offside, even with a part of the body you cannot score with. For me there should be clear daylight between the attacker and defender for it to be offside.


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Re Salah and the offside, it was offside by millimetres, VAR was correct it’s the offside ruling that’s wrong. When a goal is scored, a corner, goal kick, throw in.  The whole of the ball has to be over the line. Yet for off side, a few millimetres off side and your offside, even with a part of the body you cannot score with. For me there should be clear daylight between the attacker and defender for it to be offside.
		
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You'll never get any offsides then, it will just be a backwards version of what we have now - i.e. VAR showing that the striker's big toe was just far enough back to be in line with the defender's knee. So a guy that looks a yard off will be onside then. I don't think that's any better! 

Really it's quite simple, just go back to what the rule was before. Let the ref watch it on replay if he wants to, but don't draw any stupid lines on it, just let him watch the replay and decide if it looks offside or whether he was level/onside when it was played. It really could be that simple but they don't want it to be, for some reason.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You'll never get any offsides then, it will just be a backwards version of what we have now - i.e. VAR showing that the striker's big toe was just far enough back to be in line with the defender's knee. So a guy that looks a yard off will be onside then. I don't think that's any better!

Really it's quite simple, just go back to what the rule was before. Let the ref watch it on replay if he wants to, but don't draw any stupid lines on it, just let him watch the replay and decide if it looks offside or whether he was level/onside when it was played. It really could be that simple but they don't want it to be, for some reason.
		
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It can never be that simple though, as another human being has to pause the picture for the Ref to decide, a fraction of the pause button could influence the wrong decision being made and it’s still trial by TV.

Totally agree there is no ideal solution, but personally I’d rather accept the human error of the Linesman, I genuinely don’t believe a linesman makes a mistake on purpose, but it’s his job/role to make those decisions and I don’t believe we had anywhere near this much controversey when it was on them.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You'll never get any offsides then, it will just be a backwards version of what we have now - i.e. VAR showing that the striker's big toe was just far enough back to be in line with the defender's knee. So a guy that looks a yard off will be onside then. I don't think that's any better!

Really it's quite simple, just go back to what the rule was before. Let the ref watch it on replay if he wants to, but don't draw any stupid lines on it, just let him watch the replay and decide if it looks offside or whether he was level/onside when it was played. It really could be that simple but they don't want it to be, for some reason.
		
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It comes down to camera angles then if ref is watching it on monitor.
But lines on the pitch made by the mowers is the only reference.
The Lino is best placed for this ,it’s what he’s there for imo.
So between them they should be able to sort it out.


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## USER1999 (Nov 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It can never be that simple though, as another human being has to pause the picture for the Ref to decide, a fraction of the pause button could influence the wrong decision being made and it’s still trial by TV.

Totally agree there is no ideal solution, but personally I’d rather accept the human error of the Linesman, I genuinely don’t believe a linesman makes a mistake on purpose, but it’s his job/role to make those decisions and I don’t believe we had anywhere near this much controversey when it was on them.
		
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Why pause it? Show it in real time, no lines drawn.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Why pause it? Show it in real time, no lines drawn.
		
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30 second rule 

If you can't decide in 30 seconds if it's offside the goal stands 

(Advantage to the attacker)


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## Tashyboy (Nov 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You'll never get any offsides then, it will just be a backwards version of what we have now - i.e. VAR showing that the striker's big toe was just far enough back to be in line with the defender's knee. So a guy that looks a yard off will be onside then. I don't think that's any better!

Really it's quite simple, just go back to what the rule was before. Let the ref watch it on replay if he wants to, but don't draw any stupid lines on it, just let him watch the replay and decide if it looks offside or whether he was level/onside when it was played. It really could be that simple but they don't want it to be, for some reason.
		
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What it will do is change the dynamics of the game. At the moment a defender knows that if a an attacker is level there’s a good chance he is offside. Change the ruling and he will know there’s a good chance he is onside. We want to see goals not argue that Salah is a toenail offside.


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It can never be that simple though, as another human being has to pause the picture for the Ref to decide,* a fraction of the pause button *could influence the wrong decision being made and it’s still trial by TV.

Totally agree there is no ideal solution, but personally I’d rather accept the human error of the Linesman, I genuinely don’t believe a linesman makes a mistake on purpose, but it’s his job/role to make those decisions and I don’t believe we had anywhere near this much controversey when it was on them.
		
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Ok but that's how it is now anyway and people are being given offside by a mm, that's part of the problem. If it's that borderline that they're not sure, then he is level and onside. That's how it always used to be, as pauljames said, benefit of the doubt was meant to go with the attacking team. This is something that's been completely lost since they can't be level anymore, the advantage is with the defenders.


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			What it will do is change the dynamics of the game. At the moment a defender knows that if a an attacker is level there’s a good chance he is offside. Change the ruling and he will know there’s a good chance he is onside. We want to see goals not argue that Salah is a toenail offside.
		
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I agree with your sentiment, I just thought your proposal was too far the opposite direction. What it would result in is defenders going deeper and deeper because they can't allow the attacker to be a foot nearer the goal than them but potentially be onside. We just need to get back to the idea that you can be level with the defenders and onside, rather than level being offside by a toe or a hair.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Why pause it? Show it in real time, no lines drawn.
		
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Then you have to go back as to why the Ref is reviewing the decision, ie, Linesman in the wrong? VAR Official disagrees? Ref himself disagrees? 

Then the next question for me would be, how many replays in real time and how many angles are you showing him.

I don’t see how this makes it any easier or clearer.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Ok but that's how it is now anyway and people are being given offside by a mm, that's part of the problem. If it's that borderline that they're not sure, then he is level and onside. That's how it always used to be, as pauljames said, benefit of the doubt was meant to go with the attacking team. This is something that's been completely lost since they can't be level anymore, the advantage is with the defenders.
		
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I believe, we actually agree it’s a joke, it’s just how we sort it out is the issue.
Whatever method is used, someone (probably Sky) will sit there ready to prove it’s no better than what we had/have and cause controversey.


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I believe, we actually agree it’s a joke, it’s just how we sort it out is the issue.
Whatever method is used, someone (probably Sky) will sit there ready to prove it’s no better than what we had/have and cause controversey.
		
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It's funny that you mention Sky, because the way they used to review the decisions in the pre-VAR times was kind of how I imagined VAR would be, and it would have been fine I think. They would replay the incident, slow it down and pause it when the ball was played, and then they'd either say "he's clearly offside, the lino/ref has made a mistake" or they'd say "it's borderline, so we'll give him benefit of the doubt and say he's about level". That to me would be a perfectly acceptable way to run VAR for offsides - just that the ref obviously is the one viewing the footage and making that decision rather than Jamie Redknapp. But they overcomplicated it massively.

Whatever the answer is, 99% of fans would agree they'd got it totally wrong at the moment.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 29, 2020)

sawtooth said:



			The same fans that celebrate penalties caused by micro touches are now up in arms when a penalty is awarded against them.

What happened to  “if the player gets touched he’s entitled to go down”  all of a sudden? We heard that every week last year when Mane and Salah went to ground so easily.

And as for offsides , VAR was spot on yesterday but because decisions went against Liverpool they don’t like it all of a sudden, no surprise there.

You couldn’t make this stuff up.😂😂
		
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Most hard done by club in history🤦‍♂️


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## Kellfire (Nov 29, 2020)

VAR denying United a clear penalty. It’s a conspiracy! I blame Bill Gates.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2020)

Watching the game without the fake noise and it’s quite funny hearing the loud screams off anguish from the players as if they have had a leg blown off 😂


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## Junior (Nov 29, 2020)

Urrgghh, best we've started a game for a while too


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Watching the game without the fake noise and it’s quite funny hearing the loud screams off anguish from the players as if they have had a leg blown off 😂
		
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Did you post this after Van der Beek went down because I heard that as well? He went down with a blood-curdling scream and I genuinely thought he'd broken his ankle or something. Ten seconds later he comes back into shot and his on his feet passing the ball like nothing happened.


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## Fish (Nov 29, 2020)

Oh when the saints ....😜😂


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## Junior (Nov 29, 2020)

Cmon ref.  3 VAR pens please.  You know the deal.


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## Slime (Nov 29, 2020)

Fish said:



			Oh when the saints ....😜😂
		
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Oh when the Saints what? 

Surrender a two goal lead?


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2020)

Junior said:



			Cmon ref.  3 VAR pens please.  You know the deal.
		
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Bruno scored his goal from roughly the penalty spot, he was right in his comfort zone there.


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## Fish (Nov 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			Oh when the Saints what?

Surrender a two goal lead?  

Click to expand...

I’m happier with a draw 😏💙


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## Papas1982 (Nov 29, 2020)

Genuinely not sure if a team has squandered more 2-0 leads in PL history. 

The better team has won here, but they really shouldn't have. Vestergaard gave this away playing offside all by himself 🙄


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## Slime (Nov 29, 2020)

Wrong shirt, but I don't give a damn!


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2020)

Hmm, I think it might be time to actually start Cavani next week. Rather than any of their other forwards who would all rather be on the wing.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

Fish taking on Homies role lol


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## Slime (Nov 29, 2020)

Great result, considering the half time scoreline.
It's the first time for a very long time that United have shown some real backbone.
A proper centre forward doesn't half make a difference!


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## Slime (Nov 29, 2020)

Fish said:



			I’m happier with a draw 😏💙
		
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Unlucky.


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## Fish (Nov 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			Great result considering the half time score.
It's the first time for a very long time that United have shown some real backbone.
A proper centre forward doesn't half make a difference!
		
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Yep, you should be in for a chance to qualify for the Europa 😏


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## Junior (Nov 29, 2020)

Created enough chances and deserved the win.  Good performance against a good Soton side.


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## Fish (Nov 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			Unlucky.  

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Actually not fussed either way, you’re no way a top 4 side, and Saints wouldn’t stay the distance to have stayed top 4, but channel 5 beckons for you, if you’re lucky 😏


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## Slime (Nov 29, 2020)

Fish said:



			Yep, you should be in for a chance to qualify for the Europa 😏
		
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We're only two points behind your lot, not bad for a poor mid-table team struggling for Europa League football.


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## Jensen (Nov 29, 2020)

Fish said:



			Oh when the saints ....😜😂
		
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Let’s hope you end up with more egg on your face today 😄


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## Fish (Nov 29, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Let’s hope you end up with more egg on your face today 😄
		
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No egg, 2-nil up when I posted, but no good you buying any eggs, you’ve got no cups to put them in 😜😂


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## Fish (Nov 29, 2020)

Fantastic finish, but no goal 😟


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2020)

sawtooth said:



			The same fans that celebrate penalties caused by micro touches are now up in arms when a penalty is awarded against them.

What happened to  “if the player gets touched he’s entitled to go down”  all of a sudden? We heard that every week last year when Mane and Salah went to ground so easily.

And as for offsides , VAR was spot on yesterday but because decisions went against Liverpool they don’t like it all of a sudden, no surprise there.

You couldn’t make this stuff up.😂😂
		
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With your consistency in calling out the divers, I'm surprised you've not mentioned Welbeck's effort.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2020)

sawtooth said:



			The same fans that celebrate penalties caused by micro touches are now up in arms when a penalty is awarded against them.

What happened to  “if the player gets touched he’s entitled to go down”  all of a sudden? We heard that every week last year when Mane and Salah went to ground so easily.

And as for offsides , VAR was spot on yesterday but because decisions went against Liverpool they don’t like it all of a sudden, no surprise there.

You couldn’t make this stuff up.😂😂
		
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We were brought up on a diet of Wenger inspired, Myopic, choose what you want to see decisions. It has obviously rubbed off on us.

Works both ways, eh?


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## sawtooth (Nov 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			We were brought up on a diet of Wenger inspired, Myopic, choose what you want to see decisions. It has obviously rubbed off on us.

Works both ways, eh?
		
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Talking of Wenger, Klopp is sounding more like him everyday.

Just get on with it Klopp , Wenger moaned about fixture pile up and injuries too , it comes with the territory.

I did not see it, Welbecks dive Stu. 😉


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2020)

What a result that was for Marine, in the hat for the 3rd round of the FA Cup..


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2020)

sawtooth said:



			Talking of Wenger, Klopp is sounding more like him everyday.

Just get on with it Klopp , Wenger moaned about fixture pile up and injuries too , it comes with the territory.

I did not see it, Welbecks dive Stu. 😉
		
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He's not monaning about fixture pile up, he's just moaning about a 12.30 ko after a Wednesday night game, hes ok with a 3.00 or 5.30 on a Saturday after a Wednesday game.

Even your ears are myopic now. 

Lets face it you stopped being sensible about Liverpool 2 years ago when we started winning things and Arsenal finally put Wenger out of his misery, something that you are still feeling the fall out from. Before then you actually used to talk some sense. Mad innit?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2020)

sawtooth said:



			Talking of Wenger, Klopp is sounding more like him everyday.

Just get on with it Klopp , Wenger moaned about fixture pile up and injuries too , it comes with the territory.

I did not see it, Welbecks dive Stu. 😉
		
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He went down in instalments that’s why you might of missed it.


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## chrisd (Nov 29, 2020)

What's Roy Keane on about "the final turd" ?


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What a result that was for Marine, in the hat for the 3rd round of the FA Cup..
		
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Lets hope them and Chorley dont draw each other and get a big pay day each.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Lets hope them and Chorley dont draw each other and get a big pay day each.
		
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One of them is Guaranteed 4th round but yeah Liverpool at home with the cameras there will be huge financially for them


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What a result that was for Marine, in the hat for the 3rd round of the FA Cup..
		
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As I've always said, they're a very good side.




And when I say always I obviously mean since around 18-00 on 7th November this year.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			Fish taking on Homies role lol
		
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I was out with the wife or I'd have been here with my usual hocus pocus. Thanks to Fish for stepping up to the plate in my absence


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## Billysboots (Nov 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			Great result, considering the half time scoreline.
It's the first time for a very long time that United have shown some real backbone.
A proper centre forward doesn't half make a difference!
		
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I keep telling everyone until I’m virtually blue in the face that United have been desperate for a genuine finisher for far too long.

Rashford - great stats for a 23 year old but I still say he does the difficult things well, but the routine not so well. Misses a lot of one-on-one chances. And rarely, if ever, makes a run across his defender in the 6-yard box like Cavani did for his second.

Martial - really good finisher on his day but drifts in and out of games far too much.

Neither are number 9’s and are not the long term answer in that position. If we get a season or two out of Cavani and he nips in with goals like he did today he may still prove to be a good bit of business.


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## Kellfire (Nov 29, 2020)

Papa Bouba Diop has died, aged 42.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I was out with the wife or I'd have been here with my usual hocus pocus. Thanks to Fish for stepping up to the plate in my absence
		
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any chance you could tip up wolves later  were gonna need all the help we can get, esp with the XI were putting out there


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## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Papa Bouba Diop has died, aged 42.
		
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Really? Awful news. The wardrobe as he was nicknamed for his presence. Loved him great player


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## Slime (Nov 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			We're only two points behind your lot, not bad for a poor mid-table team struggling for Europa League football. 

Click to expand...

Sorry, three points behind with a game in hand.


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## Fish (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			any chance you could tip up wolves later  were gonna need all the help we can get, esp with the XI were putting out there
		
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I hear you can get evens on Luiz giving away a penalty


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## Fish (Nov 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			Sorry, three points behind with a game in hand.
		
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£20 (to H4H) says we finish above you


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## Slime (Nov 29, 2020)

Fish said:



			£20 (to H4H) says we finish above you 

Click to expand...

No, because I think you will.

Oh, okay then, it is a great cause.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

Fish said:



			I hear you can get evens on Luiz giving away a penalty 

Click to expand...


must mean they expect em to miss, can get 8/1 wolves to score a pen


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## Fish (Nov 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			No, because I think you will.

Oh, okay then, it is a great cause.  

Click to expand...



Richart, make a note


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2020)

RIP Wardrobe and thanks for the memories


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

horrible clash of heads with Luiz, Jiminez not in a good way here


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2020)

The noise of the collision  was horrific.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

Fingers crossed Jiminez is ok, doesnt look good at all, the looks on some of the faces tells a story 

Not sure Luiz should be continuing after that either (not sure hed be allowed to in rugby after a blow like that)


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			Fingers crossed Jiminez is ok, doesnt look good at all, the looks on some of the faces tells a story 

Not sure Luiz should be continuing after that either (not sure hed be allowed to in rugby after a blow like that)
		
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Yeah, strange how a player can be down for so long with a head injury be allowed to stay on.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah, strange how a player can be down for so long with a head injury be allowed to stay on.
		
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in light of head injuries being more and more in the news surely its time for football to introduce compulsory temporary subs for 10 mins for head injuries like that to ensure the players are properly tested, been too many examples in rugby of players continuing when they shouldnt which is now not being allowed to happen, surely football has to follow


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## Old Skier (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			in light of head injuries being more and more in the news surely its time for football to introduce compulsory temporary subs for 10 mins for head injuries like that to ensure the players are properly tested, been too many examples in rugby of players continuing when they shouldnt which is now not being allowed to happen, surely football has to follow
		
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The amount of claret coming out of his swede is enough to have him off.


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## paddyc (Nov 29, 2020)

Such poor defending from us, just let him run at defence free shot, poor keeping.  I thought we getting  stronger  at the back, obviously  not.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Such poor defending from us, just let him run at defence free shot, poor keeping.  I thought we getting  stronger  at the back, obviously  not.
		
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lol, only way weve got better is more men behind the ball and sides not being clinical against us, still got the same not good enough players sadly

statue in midfield, luiz shouldve been off after the injury, i assume we must have brought a proper dud in saliba for 25m+ if he cant even get in the squad. very hard to fathom what 5 or 6 of the side are actually adding tonight, and not sure they know their roles especially going forward 

gabriel and partey must wondered what theyve walked into


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

were now in the worst spot possible, arteta is starting to compromise his "philospohy" having realised it just wont work with the personnel he has, more worryingly is that hes still picking most of the same personnel and im not actually sure what out structure/approach is now supposed to be

get Tierney to left back to mark Traore and free Saka up to play further forward so that we actually create a chance. Holding for Luiz alongside Gabriel. get Xhaka off, move Willock into the middle in his role and bring Reiss Nelson on to the right allowing Willian to play more centrally. Has to be better than this, albeit be nice if we had an ozil/smith rowe or anyone who can pick a pass to bring on


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

wow so Luiz has been assessed at half time and withdrawn  so why did he continue


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I keep telling everyone until I’m virtually blue in the face that United have been desperate for a genuine finisher for far too long.

Rashford - great stats for a 23 year old but I still say he does the difficult things well, but the routine not so well. Misses a lot of one-on-one chances. And rarely, if ever, makes a run across his defender in the 6-yard box like Cavani did for his second.

Martial - really good finisher on his day but drifts in and out of games far too much.

Neither are number 9’s and are not the long term answer in that position. If we get a season or two out of Cavani and he nips in with goals like he did today he may still prove to be a good bit of business.
		
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Nothing worse for a player than looking up and there is no one in the box.
I love a big CF who can worry CBs .
Never really seen much of Cavanni . but hope the lad does well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			wow so Luiz has been assessed at half time and withdrawn  so why did he continue
		
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Football is still clueless on this. Plain ridiculous.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			in light of head injuries being more and more in the news surely its time for football to introduce compulsory temporary subs for 10 mins for head injuries like that to ensure the players are properly tested, been too many examples in rugby of players continuing when they shouldnt which is now not being allowed to happen, surely football has to follow
		
Click to expand...

That would mean the Footy Authorities doing something sensible so wouldn’t hold your breath.
Him not coming out second half would suggest they were wrong to let him stay out there.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

more i watch it the more thats pen not a yellow card


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			more i watch it the more thats pen not a yellow card
		
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Why no SLO mo thought that was mandatory after yesterday.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Why no SLO mo thought that was mandatory after yesterday.
		
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they looked at it on all accounts


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

good to hear Jiminez is conscious and responding


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## need_my_wedge (Nov 29, 2020)

Xaka is awful today, if he's not falling over he's giving it away. The rest aren't much better.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			Xaka is awful today, if he's not falling over he's giving it away. The rest aren't much better.
		
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today? been like it since the day we bought him, never been good enough or fast enough, shouldve been binned off last year rather than reintegrated and lauded for his "2nd coming"


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## Billysboots (Nov 29, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Nothing worse for a player than looking up and there is no one in the box.
I love a big CF who can worry CBs .
Never really seen much of Cavanni . but hope the lad does well.
		
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One of the best I have seen at Old Trafford was Van Nistelrooy. Incredible eye for goal and I’ll bet he was horrible to play against.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			they looked at it on all accounts
		
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He stands on his toe !
Not much but Thant’s enough now apparently.
But to book him without even having a second look is very poor imo.
Isn’t it the same VAR ref that gave a pen yesterday.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			One of the best I have seen at Old Trafford was Van Nistelrooy. Incredible eye for goal and I’ll bet he was horrible to play against.
		
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Always admired Mark Hughes thought he was a great player.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That would mean the Footy Authorities doing something sensible so wouldn’t hold your breath.
Him not coming out second half would suggest they were wrong to let him stay out there.
		
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Back in my hockey days, 20 odd years or so ago before concussion was talked  about, I played an away game where one of our players got a ball at full whack on his temple. Sickening hit, he dropped.  Game stopped, he may or may not have been out for a few seconds but he was certainly dazed. After a couple of minutes he declared himself fine to carry on. He played the rest of the game okay. On the journey back, 3 hours, he started to go pale, and woozy. We got him home and his wife, a nurse, took him to a and e. He had a hairline fracture of the skull. Speaking to him afterwards, weeks, he had no recollection of the match. He remembers the journey down but nothing else. He would have passed a concussion test but was absolutely concussed. He was lucky, 

This was a real experience for me. Any proper whack, get them off, get them an x-ray. You don't mess with the brain.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back in my hockey days, 20 odd years or so ago before concussion was talked  about, I played an away game where one of our players got a ball at full whack on his temple. Sickening hit, he dropped.  Game stopped, he may or may not have been out for a few seconds but he was certainly dazed. After a couple of minutes he declared himself fine to carry on. He played the rest of the game okay. On the journey back, 3 hours, he started to go pale, and woozy. We got him home and his wife, a nurse, took him to a and e. He had a hairline fracture of the skull. Speaking to him afterwards, weeks, he had no recollection of the match. He remembers the journey down but nothing else. He would have passed a concussion test but was absolutely concussed. He was lucky,

This was a real experience for me. Any proper whack, get them off, get them an x-ray. You don't mess with the brain.
		
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Scary really you never know the day.
I got knocked out last year by a golf ball and still don’t remember anything until I was in the ambulance.


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## Slime (Nov 29, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He stands on his toe !
Not much but Thant’s enough now apparently.
*But to book him without even having a second look is very poor imo.*
Isn’t it the same VAR ref that gave a pen yesterday.
		
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He didn't have to, I thought it was a clear dive.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

another game, and again very few positives to take

fair play to wolves, fully deserved their win

only going to continue to get worse too


----------



## paddyc (Nov 29, 2020)

Yet another poor display. Serious question marks now and Arteta must be under pressure. we look a bang average team


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back in my hockey days, 20 odd years or so ago before concussion was talked  about, I played an away game where one of our players got a ball at full whack on his temple. Sickening hit, he dropped.  Game stopped, he may or may not have been out for a few seconds but he was certainly dazed. After a couple of minutes he declared himself fine to carry on. He played the rest of the game okay. On the journey back, 3 hours, he started to go pale, and woozy. We got him home and his wife, a nurse, took him to a and e. He had a hairline fracture of the skull. Speaking to him afterwards, weeks, he had no recollection of the match. He remembers the journey down but nothing else. He would have passed a concussion test but was absolutely concussed. He was lucky,

This was a real experience for me. Any proper whack, get them off, get them an x-ray. You don't mess with the brain.
		
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Happened to me , was playing in a festival some cocky little spanner decided to reverse hit on grass ( wasn’t allowed ) , ball flew up cracked me on the head , I went down. I was assessed and put in a neck brace for 5 mins but then played again. When we got home about 2 days later was getting headaches , doc said it was just a bit of bruising , stayed the same for another 2 days , went to another doctor who sent me to hospital , had a very small hairline crack and was also suffering from a bit of concussion and i had been driving for a few days. It’s no surprise the first doctor left the RAF Surgery


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Yet another poor display. Serious question marks now and Arteta must be under pressure. we look a bang average team
		
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 time for us to stop pointing the finger at the manager and start pointing it at the board, the management of contracts, player acquisition/disposal and the players! 

squad isnt close to being good enough, attitude and effort levels are awful, there are some that need removing and removing fast imo, get rid or arteta, whos the next lamb to the slaughter with this group?


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## DanFST (Nov 29, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Yet another poor display. Serious question marks now and Arteta must be under pressure. we look a bang average team
		
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Aren't you tho? You haven't finished in the top four in about 5 seasons.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Aren't you tho? You haven't finished in the top four in about 5 seasons.
		
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in a nutshell thats how bad we are, were fair game to west ham fans!!!!!!!


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

without overthinking it:

why did we pay 25m+ for sailba, loan him back out last year, fail to loan him back out this year but not include him in our squads. at St Etienne he was rated above Fofana who is ripping up trees for Leicester
why did we sign an aging Willian on a 3 yr contract on a rumoured 250k a week
why did we give the clown Luiz a contract extension
why did we loan then sign an out of contract injured Cedric
why did we not take the 20m+ offer for Maitlin Niles if we dont intend to use him
why sign aubam to a big contract then play him out of position
why did we not manage to offload any of the deadwood on the books? xhaka, ozil, mustafi, sokratis, kolasinac, lacazette for starters (i know i know no one wants them on their exorbitant wage demands)

thats just the last year or so, let alone some of the utter mismanagement that went on the years before (mainly buying the above deadwood!)

can only hope to see a complete rebuild at some point with the above removed, and more of the youngsters given proper chances before more additions can be brought in


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## Billysboots (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



*time for us to stop pointing the finger at the manager and start pointing it at the board, the management of contracts, player acquisition/disposal and the players!*

squad isnt close to being good enough, attitude and effort levels are awful, there are some that need removing and removing fast imo, get rid or arteta, whos the next lamb to the slaughter with this group?
		
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You could have been talking about Man United there. That’s exactly how I feel about the goings on at Old Trafford.

Before *any *managerial changes at Old Trafford are made the club have to recruit a director of football or CEO with some nouse. The recruitment of players, with a handful of notable exceptions, has been chaotic since 2012. And the failure, every transfer window, to move the deadwood on has been unbelievable. How the likes of Jones and Lingard are still there beggars belief.

As one pundit said in the summer, the best transfer window signing United could have made would have been Edwin Van der Sar. A CEO who knows football, knows the club and understands the Premier League.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			You could have been talking about Man United there. That’s exactly how I feel about the goings on at Old Trafford.

Before *any *managerial changes at Old Trafford are made the club have to recruit a director of football or CEO with some nouse. The recruitment of players, with a handful of notable exceptions, has been chaotic since 2012. And the failure, every transfer window, to move the deadwood on has been unbelievable. How the likes of Jones and Lingard are still there beggars belief.

As one pundit said in the summer, the best transfer window signing United could have made would have been Edwin Van der Sar. A CEO who knows football, knows the club and understands the Premier League.
		
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weve had a rather David Dein sized hole for more than 10 years now


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## Billysboots (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			weve had a rather David Dein sized hole for more than 10 years now 

Click to expand...

We’re in a very similar position but I do still feel Solskjaer is worth standing by.

The problems started the day Ferguson left, primarily because David Gill went at the same time. An ageing squad was left behind which only won the league because of Van Persie’s goals and the fact that 2012/13 was a less than vintage Premier League season.

In comes Moyes and the very first thing he does is move on all of Ferguson’s backroom staff. A massive error of judgement, and one which triggered a steady decline.

Since then there have been false dawns and the biggest scattergun approach to recruitment I have seen in years. Big name signings being brought in with no apparent thought how they would fit in. Di Maria a Van Gaal player? Really?

We have men who know about commerce but nothing about football who have far too much influence on the footballing side. We need the right structure above the manager, and that side of things is shambolic. Has been for far too long.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2020)

The good news is Jiminez appears to be ok - awake and responding to treatment 👍


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## paddyc (Nov 29, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Aren't you tho? You haven't finished in the top four in about 5 seasons.
		
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Says the fan of that hugely successful club!!!!!.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			We’re in a very similar position but I do still feel Solskjaer is worth standing by.

The problems started the day Ferguson left, primarily because David Gill went at the same time. An ageing squad was left behind which only won the league because of Van Persie’s goals and the fact that 2012/13 was a less than vintage Premier League season.

In comes Moyes and the very first thing he does is move on all of Ferguson’s backroom staff. A massive error of judgement, and one which triggered a steady decline.

Since then there have been false dawns and the biggest scattergun approach to recruitment I have seen in years. Big name signings being brought in with no apparent thought how they would fit in. Di Maria a Van Gaal player? Really?

We have men who know about commerce but nothing about football who have far too much influence on the footballing side. We need the right structure above the manager, and that side of things is shambolic. Has been for far too long.
		
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At least you have the semblance of a decent squad with a few additions (and one major leaver), you have 8 or 9 of a first team, we have 4 or 5 (and im being generous)


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## DanFST (Nov 29, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Says the fan of that hugely successful club!!!!!.
		
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Projecting only shows I'm right. Fans of my club, know we are crap and will always be crap, the best we'll get is a cup win maybe.

A large chunk of Arsenal fans are delusional, believing that they're a power house. They haven't one the PL for 17 years, and haven't made the top 4 in 5 years. You are a better than average side, mismanaged at most levels. Just accept it and you'll be likeable to the rest of the league, and happier!

(also we're above you in the table, and we are crap)


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## pendodave (Nov 29, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Says the fan of that hugely successful club!!!!!.
		
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Being a west ham supporter makes one uniquely qualified to identify bang-averageness when we see it...
Out of their depth managers, owners with questionable motives, horribly overpaid has-beens. We've seen it all.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Projecting only shows I'm right. Fans of my club, know we are crap and will always be crap, the best we'll get is a cup win maybe.

*A large chunk of Arsenal fans are delusional, believing that they're a power house. They haven't one the PL for 17 years, and haven't made the top 4 in 5 years. You are a better than average side, mismanaged at most levels. Just accept it and you'll be likeable to the rest of the league*, and happier!
		
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spot on apart from the above average side part!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2020)

Is this still the rule implemented a few years back?

A player who has suffered a *head injury *must first leave the pitch. The decision of whether he is fit to play on will be taken out of the manger's hands and instead becomes the sole responsibility of the club doctor.


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## Billysboots (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			At least you have the semblance of a decent squad with a few additions (and one major leaver), you have 8 or 9 of a first team, we have 4 or 5 (and im being generous)
		
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I agree. We’re not far short on the playing side. 

And don’t get me started on Pogba!


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I agree. We’re not far short on the playing side.

And don’t get me started on Pogba!
		
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swap you xhaka for him


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## USER1999 (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			swap you xhaka for him 

Click to expand...

Can also throw in about 7 other players to make up the deal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Is this still the rule implemented a few years back?

A player who has suffered a *head injury *must first leave the pitch. The decision of whether he is fit to play on will be taken out of the manger's hands and instead becomes the sole responsibility of the club doctor.
		
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https://www.thefa.com/-/media/files/pdf/my-football/the-fa-concussion-guidelines-2019.ashx

These are the guidelines from The FA

Many other sports have stricter guidelines and includes temporary head substitutes which shoold be used in football


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## Billysboots (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			swap you xhaka for him 

Click to expand...

Nice try!


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## pendodave (Nov 29, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Projecting only shows I'm right. Fans of my club, know we are crap and will always be crap, the best we'll get is a cup win maybe.
		
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In all seriousness, this is surely the best way to enjoy football. Take joy with the (occasional) moments of triumph and get over the rest of it with a pint with your mates afterwards. 
I read the output from supporters of the more successful clubs on this forum, and I'm glad I was taken along to UP by my mate's dad 40 odd years ago.


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## DanFST (Nov 29, 2020)

pendodave said:



			In all seriousness, this is surely the best way to enjoy football. Take joy with the (occasional) moments of triumph and get over the rest of it with a pint with your mates afterwards.
I read the output from supporters of the more successful clubs on this forum, and I'm glad I was taken along to UP by my mate's dad 40 odd years ago.
		
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If we hadn't moved stadium I'd completely agree. I remember leaving the Millennium Stadium in 06 after we lost the FA cup final still proud of my team and had a great session after. If that was a "big club" forums, Fan TV and social media would be in meltdown.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Is this still the rule implemented a few years back?

A player who has suffered a head injury must first leave the pitch. The decision of whether he is fit to play on will be taken out of the manger's hands and i*nstead becomes the sole responsibility of the club doctor*.
		
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I would like to see even stricter rules being brought in where the decision is made by an independent doctor rather than the club doctor. I know that the doctor's responsibility is to the welfare of their patient but in a 50/50 situation with a player like Salah/Aguero/Fernandes/Kane the doctor must feel the pressure to allow them to play on, knowing how important tehy are to their team.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

pendodave said:



			In all seriousness, this is surely the best way to enjoy football. Take joy with the (occasional) moments of triumph and get over the rest of it with a pint with your mates afterwards.
I read the output from supporters of the more successful clubs on this forum, and I'm glad I was taken along to UP by my mate's dad 40 odd years ago.
		
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i actually prefer most my mates arent arsenal fans these days, get a far better perspective chatting with fans of other clubs (mainly west ham spurs chelsea everton)

seen the bad (mid 80s), the boring (george graham years), the great and successful (thanks Arsene!) and now we're reverting back to our previous mid table level again. seeing how some fans who have only seen the wenger era onwards and how they react is certainly eye opening at times! and always good to compare to other clubs and their fans for sure

be great to be able to chew the fat post game over a few beers again thats for sure


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## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Projecting only shows I'm right. Fans of my club, know we are crap and will always be crap, the best we'll get is a cup win maybe.

A large chunk of Arsenal fans are delusional, believing that they're a power house. They haven't one the PL for 17 years, and haven't made the top 4 in 5 years. You are a better than average side, mismanaged at most levels. Just accept it and you'll be likeable to the rest of the league, and happier!

(also we're above you in the table, and we are crap)
		
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Disagree there are a few that have ideas above our station and think we deserve champ league on empty promises.


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Is this still the rule implemented a few years back?

A player who has suffered a *head injury *must first leave the pitch. The decision of whether he is fit to play on will be taken out of the manger's hands and instead becomes the sole responsibility of the club doctor.
		
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I assume Luiz didn't have to leave the pitch because the game wasn't actually continuing. They would have done the assessment while Jimenez was being treated, while the game was paused. 

There was no suggestion that he later went off for concussion or that the doctor got it wrong. Arteta said he was just uncomfortable wearing the tight bandage, and it kept bleeding more every time he headed it so there was no point in him playing.


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## pendodave (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			i actually prefer most my mates arent arsenal fans these days, get a far better perspective chatting with fans of other clubs (mainly west ham spurs chelsea everton)

seen the bad (mid 80s), the boring (george graham years), the great and successful (thanks Arsene!) and now we're reverting back to our previous mid table level again. seeing how some fans who have only seen the wenger era onwards and how they react is certainly eye opening at times! and always good to compare to other clubs and their fans for sure

be great to be able to chew the fat post game over a few beers again thats for sure
		
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Echo the sentiments.
I'm old enough to remember most of the currently successful teams being pretty pony. Most people used to still enjoy their football though. People seem so angry nowadays, and to take it so bloody seriously.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Disagree there are a few that have ideas above our station and think we deserve champ league on empty promises.
		
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Really? I’ve not come across (m)any like that in 40 years of going. Even when we had billionaire owners you knew it was gonna go tits up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2020)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ocial-media-post-by-manchester-united-striker

Looks like Cavani in a bit of bother


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Echo the sentiments.
I'm old enough to remember most of the currently successful teams being pretty pony. Most people used to still enjoy their football though. People seem so angry nowadays, and to take it so bloody seriously.
		
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its the entitlement some fans have that bugs me. im critical at time, want the best for my side, but i dont expect or believe we deserve or are entitled to anything (especially at the moment lol)


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2020)

DanFST said:



			If we hadn't moved stadium I'd completely agree. I remember leaving the Millennium Stadium in 06 after we lost the FA cup final still proud of my team and had a great session after. If that was a "big club" forums, Fan TV and social media would be in meltdown.
		
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Yes, but its what you get used to, look at Chelsea and City's fans expectations nowadays compared to 20-25 years ago.

If West ham had sustained success for 10 years, your fans expectations would vastly increase.

Take my word for it.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



*its the entitlement some fans have *that bugs me. im critical at time, want the best for my side, but i dont expect or believe we deserve or are entitled to anything (especially at the moment lol)
		
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For a great example of this I always enjoy reading the match day thread on Spurs Forum “The Fighting Cock” when we beat them. It always starts with supreme arrogance, them disbelief, then anger. Leading to calls for the manager to be sacked and the owner to sell up! Real laugh out loud stuff. 😆


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2020)

Traore booked for diving  just makes a complete mockery of VAR.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Traore booked for diving  just makes a complete mockery of VAR.
		
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nothing to do with VAR the booking, VAR doesnt have the remit to overturn the booking unless it gives a penalty (which arguably it could have done)


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			nothing to do with VAR the booking, VAR doesnt have the remit to overturn the booking unless it gives a penalty (which arguably it could have done)
		
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We’ve seen all season pens given for less, now the “clear and obvious bar“ doesn’t exist surely it’s a pen?


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Traore booked for diving  just makes a complete mockery of VAR.
		
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And the pen for Rashford today.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			We’ve seen all season pens given for less, now the “clear and obvious bar“ doesn’t exist surely it’s a pen?
		
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i think its a pen yes, thats not universal though, only have to go back a page on this thread

not sure any of us know what is and what isnt anymore, where is the line?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			And the pen for Rashford today.
		
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I missed that today, I only caught bits of it.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			i think its a pen yes, thats not universal though, only have to go back a page on this thread

not sure any of us know what is and what isnt anymore, where is the line?
		
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Please don’t mention lines😂😂😂

Its obvious the refs don’t know what is an isnt.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			And the pen for Rashford today.
		
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That was never a pen


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Please don’t mention lines😂😂😂

Its obvious the refs don’t know what is an isnt.
		
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not only the refs thats for sure, people crossing lines everywhere haha


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I missed that today, I only caught bits of it.
		
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Very similar to the one in our game yesterday but a totally different decision this time. It should have been a United pen.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Very similar to the one in our game yesterday but a totally different decision this time. *It should have been a United pen.*

Click to expand...

Based on the one yesterday or genuinely a pen?


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Based on the one yesterday or genuinely a pen?
		
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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I assume Luiz didn't have to leave the pitch because the game wasn't actually continuing. They would have done the assessment while Jimenez was being treated, while the game was paused.

There was no suggestion that he later went off for concussion or that the doctor got it wrong. Arteta said he was just uncomfortable wearing the tight bandage, and it kept bleeding more every time he headed it so there was no point in him playing.
		
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He cracked his head, it kept bleeding. Why would keeping heading the ball in those circumstances be a good idea? Off the pitch, get an x-ray, reduce the potential of swelling in the brain. I find it scary that football is still working this way.


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He cracked his head, it kept bleeding. Why would keeping heading the ball in those circumstances be a good idea? Off the pitch, get an x-ray, reduce the potential of swelling in the brain. I find it scary that football is still working this way.
		
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It's still just a cut on the head though, it doesn't necessarily mean he had any concussion at all. We're talking about concussion protocol here.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			He didn't have to, I thought it was a clear dive.
		
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He stands on his toe 
Might only be a bit but he did stand on his toe.
That’s enough now apparently.
I think the ref got it wrong.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 30, 2020)

In view of the recent evidence linking heading the ball and head injuries to the possibility of increasing the risk of developing dementia i find it incredible that Luiz was allowed to play  on.

At the very least he should have been temporarily replaced and a thorough check undertaken in the medical room.

Not the frankly inadequate on field test as detailed by Troy Deeney on the radio this morning. 

In this respect football is way behind some other sports and there's absolutely no excuse.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I would like to see even stricter rules being brought in where the decision is made by an independent doctor rather than the club doctor. I know that the doctor's responsibility is to the welfare of their patient but in a 50/50 situation with a player like Salah/Aguero/Fernandes/Kane the doctor must feel the pressure to allow them to play on, knowing how important tehy are to their team.
		
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Didn’t Jose doctor at Chelsea resign over this issue.


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He stands on his toe
Might only be a bit but he did stand on his toe.
*That’s enough now apparently.*
I think the ref got it wrong.
		
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Why did you say it like that? Surely that's always been a foul? You stand on someone's foot and trip them up in the box that's a penalty 100 times out of 100 isn't it?


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2020)

wow, Jiminez has a fractured skull and had to have surgery last night  lets hope he makes a full recovery


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			In view of the recent evidence linking heading the ball and head injuries to the possibility of increasing the risk of developing dementia i find it incredible that Luiz was allowed to play  on.

*At the very least he should have been temporarily replaced and a thorough check undertaken in the medical room.*

Not the frankly inadequate on field test as detailed by Troy Deeney on the radio this morning.

In this respect football is way behind some other sports and there's absolutely no excuse.
		
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I don't disagree, but obviously the part in bold couldn't have happened yesterday as it would require a change of rules.


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			wow, Jiminez has a fractured skull and had to have surgery last night  lets hope he makes a full recovery
		
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Yea, and hopefully he doesn't have to retire like Ryan Mason did. He will certainly be out for a long time. Maybe he'll be able to return with a Petr Cech style hat at some point.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why did you say it like that? Surely that's always been a foul? You stand on someone's foot and trip them up in the box that's a penalty 100 times out of 100 isn't it? 

Click to expand...

Because the same ref called the ref to have a look at the Robertson one on Wellbeck.
But he thinks standing on someone’s toe isn’t a pen.
Add insult to injury he lets Oliver book him.
Why didn’t he ask him to have a look on the monitor.
It’s 50/50 on here so worth a look I think , no consistency that’s the problem.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't disagree, but obviously the part in bold couldn't have happened yesterday as it would require a change of rules.
		
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I realise that. My point is that it really is time that football caught up with other sports.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It's still just a cut on the head though, it doesn't necessarily mean he had any concussion at all. We're talking about concussion protocol here.
		
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How hard did their heads clash? Enough to do Jimenez some serious damage. How did the damage happen? From Luiz's head. It doesn't take a lot of putting together to judge that Luiz has taken a hefty crack as well. For his own safety he should have been off the pitch, having a scan, game over. Head injuries need to be looked at in a different way to a knock on the ankle.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I realise that. My point is that it really is time that football caught up with other sports.
		
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Only have to listen to Shearer on motd .
FIFA have had plenty of time to sort this out.
They are not fit for purpose and need a kick up the a..e.


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Because the same ref called the ref to have a look at the Robertson one on Wellbeck.
But he thinks standing on someone’s toe isn’t a pen.
Add insult to injury he lets Oliver book him.
Why didn’t he ask him to have a look on the monitor.
It’s 50/50 on here so worth a look I think , no consistency that’s the problem.
		
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The Welbeck one wasn't the same incident. Robertson at least made some contact with the ball during his challenge. With Traore, he went straight past Gabriel, who was beaten all ends up and then stands on his foot trying to make a challenge. I think it was an absolute stonewall penalty, personally. Traore would have kept the ball in and been firing it across the goal. I have absolutely no idea why it wasn't reviewed and a penalty awarded. Probably some nonsense like the yellow card he gave him for 'diving' meant that it couldn't be reviewed because they don't review yellow cards maybe? You know how they like to tie their own hands with their stupid rules around it.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How hard did their heads clash? Enough to do Jimenez some serious damage. How did the damage happen? From Luiz's head. It doesn't take a lot of putting together to judge that Luiz has taken a hefty crack as well. For his own safety he should have been off the pitch, having a scan, game over. Head injuries need to be looked at in a different way to a knock on the ankle.
		
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Spot on .
You can be ok for hours then it suddenly hits you .
If your alone your in trouble .
He should have been in the hospital with Himenez.

Hope the lads ok ( Himenez) as this is career threatening injury.


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How hard did their heads clash? Enough to do Jimenez some serious damage. How did the damage happen? From Luiz's head. It doesn't take a lot of putting together to judge that Luiz has taken a hefty crack as well. For his own safety he should have been off the pitch, having a scan, game over. Head injuries need to be looked at in a different way to a knock on the ankle.
		
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I was definitely surprised he played on, but there's not been anything after the game to suggest it was the wrong decision. Perhaps they just got lucky and it shouldn't be left to luck - I get what you're saying. I think with the incident, Luiz basically smashed the side of Raul's head with his own forehead, which is why Raul came off a lot worse. He headed his head like a football basically.  Clumsy twat!


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			The Welbeck one wasn't the same incident. Robertson at least made some contact with the ball during his challenge. With Traore, he went straight past Gabriel, who was beaten all ends up and then stands on his foot trying to make a challenge. I think it was an absolute stonewall penalty, personally. Traore would have kept the ball in and been firing it across the goal. I have absolutely no idea why it wasn't reviewed and a penalty awarded. Probably some nonsense like the yellow card he gave him for 'diving' meant that it couldn't be reviewed because they don't review yellow cards maybe? You know how they like to tie their own hands with their stupid rules around it. 

Click to expand...

That’s not right .
I have seen yellows cancelled and red given.
Yellows have been cancelled after a ref has gone to the monitor and looked.
It’s the rules that are the problem.
And Andre Marriner.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I was definitely surprised he played on, but there's not been anything after the game to suggest it was the wrong decision. *Perhaps they just got lucky and it shouldn't be left to luck* - I get what you're saying. I think with the incident, Luiz basically smashed the side of Raul's head with his own forehead, which is why Raul came off a lot worse. He headed his head like a football basically.  Clumsy twat!
		
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That is the key thing for me. Football is still in the mindset of 'the player says they are okay so that is enough'. The doctor is a club doctor, under pressure to get the player back out again. It should be taken out of their hands.

Your last point, that's just him isn't it


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is the key thing for me. Football is still in the mindset of 'the player says they are okay so that is enough'. *The doctor is a club doctor, under pressure to get the player back out again. It should be taken out of their hands.*

Your last point, that's just him isn't it 

Click to expand...

What I meant was, maybe they got lucky, but maybe they didn't - maybe the checks were perfectly adequate and he really was able to carry on. I don't know enough about it. If they changed the rules to something like @MetalMickie suggested - allowing players to be temporarily subbed off for genuine head injuries, giving them a good 10-15 minutes to be assessed, that might be a good place to start. Obviously it wouldn't count as one of your subs.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Didn’t Jose doctor at Chelsea resign over this issue.
		
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No.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36472713

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Carneiro


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			No.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36472713

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Carneiro

Click to expand...

That was the technicality she won her case on but the issue was Jose blowing his top at her actions.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 30, 2020)

Jimenez has had surgery on a fractured skull https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55125293


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s not right .
I have seen yellows cancelled and red given.
Yellows have been cancelled after a ref has gone to the monitor and looked.
It’s the rules that are the problem.
And Andre Marriner.
		
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I think a red (or yellow) was changed or dumbed down at a Palace game this or last season.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			No.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36472713

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Carneiro

Click to expand...

I thought it was and he wanted the player to stay on .
But she said no he was injured ( not a head injury)
Wasn’t that the argument.
He had to leave the pitch because the medical team ran on to help Hazard.
He then called her a very bad thing in Portuguese that’s what she sued them for.
But it started with the doctor running on to help Hazard.???


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think a red (or yellow) was changed or dumbed down at a Palace game this or last season.
		
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Yes seen it a couple of times.
Cards can be changed until the ref puts his report in I always thought.
That’s not new it’s just VAR gives him the tools to do it during the game.
Might be another old wives tale though.
Anyone know for deffo.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes seen it a couple of times.
Cards can be changed until the ref puts his report in I always thought.
That’s not new it’s just VAR gives him the tools to do it during the game.
Might be another old wives tale though.
Anyone know for deffo.
		
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Paul DJ or Homer will know what they done 20 years ago, when refs used to dress like this:-


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Paul DJ or Homer will know what they done 20 years ago, when refs used to dress like this:-

View attachment 33785




Click to expand...

Where’s he left his clubs.?


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## garyinderry (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why did you say it like that? Surely that's always been a foul? You stand on someone's foot and trip them up in the box that's a penalty 100 times out of 100 isn't it? 

Click to expand...


It was a shocker of a decision and to book the man rubbed salt in the wound.


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## USER1999 (Nov 30, 2020)

Luiz head must have been damaged in the collision. Shortly afterwards, he thought he could take a free kick. He can't.


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			For a great example of this I always enjoy reading the match day thread on Spurs Forum “The Fighting Cock” when we beat them. It always starts with supreme arrogance, them disbelief, then anger. Leading to calls for the manager to be sacked and the owner to sell up! Real laugh out loud stuff. 😆
		
Click to expand...

Haha. This is also one of my monday breakfast occasional treats,  not specific to our own glorious triumphs over them (!) but any time they record a particularly miserable result. 
I think this reflects badly on me. As does waiting for this morning's arsecast extra podcast to drop...(actually, i even sometimes listen to this when they win, as it's a decent listen, and they get tragically (and briefly, obvs) optimistic when they win).
Also, I'm already rationalising this evening's limp surrender 7 hours early...


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Luiz head must have been damaged in the collision. Shortly afterwards, he thought he could take a free kick. He can't.
		
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that was the problem with it being luiz, i couldnt tell the difference from any other week


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## Slime (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



*Only have to listen to Shearer on motd .*
FIFA have had plenty of time to sort this out.
They are not fit for purpose and need a kick up the a..e.
		
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Is that the same Alan Shearer as this one?





Yeah, head injuries must be taken seriously, Alan.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 30, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Haha. This is also one of my monday breakfast occasional treats,  not specific to our own glorious triumphs over them (!) but any time they record a particularly miserable result.
I think this reflects badly on me. As does waiting for this morning's arsecast extra podcast to drop...(actually, i even sometimes listen to this when they win, as it's a decent listen, and they get tragically (and briefly, obvs) optimistic when they win).
Also, I'm already rationalising this evening's limp surrender 7 hours early...
		
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There is also that Spurs fan that does some webcast thingy, starts off cocky and ends up distraught! Cracks me up!😄

Yeah a win today and we are 5th!  But generally when we get an opportunity to reach dizzy heights we slip and fall on our face trying to get there. So am expecting a drubbing! 😩


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Is that the same Alan Shearer as this one?





Yeah, head injuries must be taken seriously, Alan.
		
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That’s the fella.
He must have got red for that even before VAR.
But???
Have you matured as you got older?

All three of them on motd spoke a lot of sense. Imo of course.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought it was and he wanted the player to stay on .
But she said no he was injured ( not a head injury)
Wasn’t that the argument.
*He had to leave the pitch because the medical team ran on to help Hazard.*
He then called her a very bad thing in Portuguese that’s what she sued them for.
But it started with the doctor running on to help Hazard.???
		
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Carneiro and chief physiotherapist Jon Fearn were the subject of criticism from Mourinho after the first game of the 2015–16 season: Chelsea were playing Swansea City at Stamford Bridge.[15]According to Mourinho, she and Fearn rushed onto the pitch to attend to Eden Hazard when he felt the injury was not of a serious nature. He was further annoyed because this meant that Chelsea, having already had a player sent-off during the match, were temporarily left with eight outfield players.* Under the Laws of the Game, medical staff are not allowed onto the field without the referee's permission, but have a duty to tend to an injured player when summoned. Carneiro and Fearn were twice summoned onto the field by referee Michael Oliver. * Carneiro's view that she was simply doing her job has been fully supported by FIFA and its medical chairman Michel D’Hooghe.


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## Billysboots (Nov 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How hard did their heads clash? Enough to do Jimenez some serious damage. How did the damage happen? From Luiz's head. It doesn't take a lot of putting together to judge that Luiz has taken a hefty crack as well. For his own safety he should have been off the pitch, having a scan, game over. Head injuries need to be looked at in a different way to a knock on the ankle.
		
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And I agree that there needs to be a very clear protocol. 

The issue here is that, almost without exception, club medics will have a vested interest in keeping a key player on the pitch. If Bruno Fernandes took a blow to the head like Luiz yesterday the United medics are going to be reluctant to involve themselves in a decision to take him off. Same goes for so many others.

If there is a clear protocol in place which takes the decision away from anyone attached to a football club, then everyone knows the position. Are independent medics involved in on-field decisions like this? I don’t know.

I too have suffered a concussion, like many here, and I didn’t actually feel the effects until some time after I took a cricket ball to the head. I really don’t understand, given what happens in other sports, why it is that football still doesn’t seem to have got its act together.


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## DanFST (Nov 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Is that the same Alan Shearer as this one?





Yeah, head injuries must be taken seriously, Alan.
		
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Bloody Nora. 

In all fairness, times have changed since then. I remember even as a teenager playing rugby in the early 2000's, a concussion was smelling salts and back you go.


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Luiz head must have been damaged in the collision. Shortly afterwards, he thought he could take a free kick. He can't.
		
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I guess he's still dining out on these ones...






It has been a while, though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2020)

It’s clear Imo that Luiz should have gone off - that cut to the head could have been a lot more severe and you only have to look at what has happened to Jiminez. There have been far too many incidents in football - the minute Luiz was down along with Jiminez the substitute should have happened and then checks done on both players - their welfare comes first.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2020)

https://www.anfieldwatch.co.uk/vide...g-some-people-fall-out-of-love-with-the-game/

Says a lot of good stuff 

Also said about the penalty 

Robertson: "I've got no problem if my tackle is being given as a pen. But on Sunday I saw two challenges on Rashford and Traore that were very similar and weren't given. We are just looking for consistency. We thought we'd get that with VAR and we aren't right."


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2020)

Fulham 2-0 up at Leicester, they even managed to score a pen 

Someone get Homie a beer, he might need one for the 2nd half


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## Fade and Die (Nov 30, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.anfieldwatch.co.uk/vide...g-some-people-fall-out-of-love-with-the-game/

Says a lot of good stuff

Also said about the penalty

Robertson: "I've got no problem if my tackle is being given as a pen. But on Sunday I saw two challenges on Rashford and Traore that were very similar and weren't given. *We are just looking for consistency. We thought we'd get that with VAR and we aren't right.*"
		
Click to expand...

Just had a look at the Penalty, it’s no different to the Masuaku one on Salah, (apart from one threw theirselves to the floor and Welbeck tried to carry on) and you got that dodgy one so I can’t see what he is complaining about.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			Fulham 2-0 up at Leicester, they even managed to score a pen 

Someone get Homie a beer, he might need one for the 2nd half
		
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Not daring to dream yet. We'll find a way to lose 3-2


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## Cherry13 (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s the fella.
He must have got red for that even before VAR.
But???
Have you matured as you got older?

All three of them on motd spoke a lot of sense. Imo of course.
		
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I don’t even think he was booked for that! Ref missed it, he then wasn’t charged by the fa after because they didn’t think did it deliberately.  (I’m sure about then or villa sending off, he threatened intl retirement).

Only two sendings off in his career I believe and one he actually didn’t deserve.


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## Bazzatron (Nov 30, 2020)

Confirmed fractured skull for Raul. Couldn't care less if he plays again, just hope he can enjoy a normal life with his family. Most important thing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Just had a look at the Penalty, it’s no different to the Masuaku one on Salah, (apart from one threw theirselves to the floor and Welbeck tried to carry on) and you got that dodgy one so I can’t see what he is complaining about.
		
Click to expand...

Welbeck also threw himself to the floor 

Watch him here 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332715981169418249
He isn’t complaining about being a penalty it’s more the consistency- as he stated two other examples that should have been given


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 30, 2020)

The FA and FIFA are not fit for purpose in terms of player safety and players are just seem and a disposable commodity. I think the Arsenal medical staff were wrong to let Ruiz stay on the pitch given the ferocity of the collision. There needs to be a protocol that is stuck to and as soon as a head injury is serious enough to warrant the intervention of the club doctor that player should be withdrawn and a "head" sub can come on without taking from the usual number of subs allowed. Even if the player isn't showing any symptoms there is nothing to say these won't manifest later. It has to be handled far more sympathetically and players welfare taken care of. Hopefully Jimenez will be ok and able to return to football at some point in the future


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			I don’t even think he was booked for that! Ref missed it, he then wasn’t charged by the fa after because they didn’t think did it deliberately.  (I’m sure about then or villa sending off, he threatened intl retirement).

Only two sendings off in his career I believe and one he actually didn’t deserve.
		
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Can’t remember the lads name but didn’t shearer do something similar to one of his own players once.?


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## Cherry13 (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t remember the lads name but didn’t shearer do something similar to one of his own players once.?
		
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Not that I remember in a match.  There’s a famous (up here) story about Keith Gillespie getting a bit of a hiding off him on a night out, and cracking his head on a plant pot or something. I think it’s in Gillespies book.  

Shearer apparantly also kicked off with dyer and bowyer after their on field spat.  Ironically against villa.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 30, 2020)

GET IN. But why can't it be simple. Last twenty minutes did nothing for the blood pressure. City away next. What can possibly go wrong now?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Not that I remember in a match.  There’s a famous (up here) story about Keith Gillespie getting a bit of a hiding off him on a night out, and cracking his head on a plant pot or something. I think it’s in Gillespies book. 

Shearer apparantly also kicked off with dyer and bowyer after their on field spat.  Ironically against villa.
		
Click to expand...

That was a good fight .


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t remember the lads name but didn’t shearer do something similar to one of his own players once.?
		
Click to expand...

Your not getting mixed up with Hartson and one of his team mates in training were he wellied him in the head.  Berkovic.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 30, 2020)

Spurs away to Marine in the 3rd round of the FA Cup, the magic of the FA Cup in full flow


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Your not getting mixed up with Hartson and one of his team mates in training were he wellied him in the head.  Berkovic.
		
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No sure it was shearer I thought it was in training for England .
Might just be getting mixed up with the Lennon one.
Could be age related.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Your not getting mixed up with Hartson and one of his team mates in training were he wellied him in the head.  Berkovic.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t think anyone could get Hartson and Shearer mixed up.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Don’t think anyone could get Hartson and Shearer mixed up.

Click to expand...

Hartson had more hair, less beard in them days.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

Grealish great player considering he must have a broken leg every game the amount of injuries he fakes..


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Grealish great player considering he must have a broken leg every game the amount of injuries he fakes..
		
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 The whole lot of them do seem to be a little wobbly on their bambi like legs...


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

pendodave said:



			The whole lot of them do seem to be a little wobbly on their bambi like legs...
		
Click to expand...

Double sub at half time by looks


Bold I like it


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## Slime (Nov 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Grealish great player considering he must have a broken leg every game the amount of injuries he fakes..
		
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Well, he does get kicked a lot.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Well, he does get kicked a lot.
		
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Most of the time getting the ball and exaggeration of contact follows 

Like a stunt man


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Most of the time getting the ball and exaggeration of contact follows

Like a stunt man
		
Click to expand...

I think you slightly mis-spelt that last sentence...


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## Fade and Die (Nov 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Well, he does get kicked a lot.
		
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Goes to ground to get players booked and sent off. Blokes a cock. 
Shame as he is a very good footballer.


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2020)

Would it seem terribly 'big club' to suggest that villa are winding up the ref and he's lost sight of what actually constitutes a foul??


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Goes to ground to get players booked and sent off. Blokes a cock.
Shame as he is a very good footballer.
		
Click to expand...

Last one was hilarious getting fornals booked 

Didn't feel it until the whistle had gone against him anyways then falls over with his leg hanging off 

Was it even the same leg he held?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2020)

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333519955967488003


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333519955967488003

Click to expand...

Thought it was the wrong leg! Cheeky little sod


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Not that I remember in a match.  There’s a famous (up here) story about Keith Gillespie getting a bit of a hiding off him on a night out, and cracking his head on a plant pot or something. I think it’s in Gillespies book. 

Shearer apparantly also kicked off with dyer and bowyer after their on field spat.  Ironically against villa.
		
Click to expand...

Gillespie at that time was not the easiest of people by all accounts. I don't think many were backing him, he was a bit of a problem (understatement). Not defending any violence of course.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 30, 2020)

Predictable by this ref.


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Predictable by this ref.
		
Click to expand...

this really is some performance by him and the villa front line.  When do we get to vote one of them off??


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Predictable by this ref.
		
Click to expand...

By letter of law a pen. Stupid to touch the shirt like that 

But my life what a soft onej

Justice they missed


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2020)

soft but its a pen, maybe save some of the ire for Rice being stupid


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

Ah that's it bring on the old horse destined for the glue factory


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2020)

I'm hoping now he's got that out of his system the ref will calm down a bit.


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

Grealish is absolutely superb. I honestly never really rated him _that_ much but he's come on a whole level this season. That skill where he mugged 3 defenders off at once was outrageous. Whether they stay up or not he'll have to move on to a bigger club next season. Too good. Should be starting for England now as well.


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Ah that's it bring on the old horse destined for the glue factory
		
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He's quite good at 'feeling contact', so hopefully takes a bit of time out of the game.


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			soft but its a pen, maybe save some of the ire for Rice being stupid 

Click to expand...

Yeah, what an absolute idiot Rice is. Grab a handful of someone's shirt in the box - great plan. Always going to be a pen as soon as they see that on the VAR. Brainless.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Grealish is absolutely superb. I honestly never really rated him _that_ much but he's come on a whole level this season. That skill where he mugged 3 defenders off at once was outrageous. Whether they stay up or not he'll have to move on to a bigger club next season. Too good. Should be starting for England now as well.
		
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong what a talent but the diving side is awful


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Grealish is absolutely superb. I honestly never really rated him _that_ much but he's come on a whole level this season. That skill where he mugged 3 defenders off at once was outrageous. Whether they stay up or not he'll have to move on to a bigger club next season. Too good. Should be starting for England now as well.
		
Click to expand...

I hope he doesn't join your lot as at least I can enjoy his antics twice a season at present...


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't get me wrong what a talent but the diving side is awful
		
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salah esque some would say , on both counts


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			salah esque some would say , on both counts 

Click to expand...

I don't think even Salah dives that bad .. or least he makes it less obvious.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

So pen from rice for a shirt pull

Their defender has massive pull (almost has it off his back) of hallers ...no free kick 

Just make it consistent


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

Well taken there. They deserve it to be fair .. if it stands


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Well taken there. They deserve it to be fair .. if it stands
		
Click to expand...


give em a couple of mins theyll find the right frame.......


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2020)

yup found it lol, ok well disallow it


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

That's harsh 

Old days that would be benefit to attacker 


Feel for villa there because that was a knats wing "offside"


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## Fade and Die (Nov 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			That's harsh

Old days that would be benefit to attacker


Feel for villa there because that was a knats wing "offside"
		
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It’s the new buzz word “Letter of the Law” 😁


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

I thought he looked offside there as soon as they stopped it, looked like his head was in front of the defenders. The way they drew the lines though made it look like they're judged him offside by his hair only.


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			It’s the new buzz word “Letter of the Law” 😁
		
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also known as utter bollox lol


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			That's harsh

Old days that would be benefit to attacker


Feel for villa there because that was a knats wing "offside"
		
Click to expand...

I'm beginning to doubt your commitment to the cause...


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I thought he looked offside there as soon as they stopped it, looked like his head was in front of the defenders. The way they drew the lines though made it look like they're judged him offside by his hair only. 

Click to expand...

His own fault for not having a short back and sides then 😂


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## Fade and Die (Nov 30, 2020)

That’ll do. Rode our luck tonight but I’ll take it!


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't get me wrong what a talent but the diving side is awful
		
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Maybe I'm 'new school' in my views but I just found it hilarious when he did that.   Fornals did give him a little kick to be fair. His little salmon leap was hilarious but it did the job.


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			That’ll do. Rode our luck tonight but I’ll take it!
		
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Lol. Somehow the somewhat fortunate outcome and the general ****iness of the oppo makes it all the sweeter. 
Plus. John Terry got booked. What's not to like?


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## Cherry13 (Nov 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Gillespie at that time was not the easiest of people by all accounts. I don't think many were backing him, he was a bit of a problem (understatement). Not defending any violence of course.
		
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Yeh, there are some legendary stories, the club banning him from all bookies in the city centre. Keegan flying his dad over to calm him down, turning out his dad was a bigger drunk and gambler etc. 

In his book he says he was throwing stuff around so Shearer told him to get out side, he knew Shearer was going to bray him so tried to land first punch and missed. Then Shearer decked him.   This was all after 8 hours on the lash in dublin. He’s meant to be great on the speaking tours.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Maybe I'm 'new school' in my views but I just found it hilarious when he did that.   Fornals did give him a little kick to be fair. His little salmon leap was hilarious but it did the job.
		
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Least hold the right leg


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Lol. Somehow the somewhat fortunate outcome and the general ****iness of the oppo makes it all the sweeter.
Plus. *John Terry got booked. What's not to like?*

Click to expand...

Can't argue with that. I didn't even see what he did? Still getting booked two years after retiring.


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Can't argue with that. I didn't even see what he did? Still getting booked two years after retiring. 

Click to expand...


like everyone else he complained about Grealish diving and holding the wrong leg, but as its JT.....


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## Kellfire (Nov 30, 2020)

How would we all feel?


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2020)

Kellfire said:



View attachment 33800

How would we all feel?
		
Click to expand...


so half a frame? still be a joke, just a slightly smaller one for me


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2020)

Kellfire said:



View attachment 33800

How would we all feel?
		
Click to expand...

I don't think that's perfect, but it would be an improvement on what we have now - because it brings back the possibility of actually being level with the defence and being onside. And it's nice of Holland to test it out for us really.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 30, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333519955967488003

Click to expand...

I’ve seen some horrid dives but that is the worst.

No reason for a panel to sit tomorrow and ban him for 3 games, it needs to stop.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 30, 2020)

Cavani, well it's not as if your international team mate of 10 years didnt go through an absolute s###storm for using the same term (rightfully so) and it being plastered all over the international press, wasn't it? Hardly a light bulb moment from, Edison.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Cavani, well it's not as if your international team mate of 10 years didnt go through an absolute s###storm for using the same term (rightfully so) and it being plastered all over the international press, wasn't it? Hardly a light bulb moment from, Edison.

Click to expand...

Let’s hope the club aren’t having T-shirt’s printed to back him 😳😂


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## Tashyboy (Dec 1, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think that's perfect, but it would be an improvement on what we have now - because it brings back the possibility of actually being level with the defence and being onside. And it's nice of Holland to test it out for us really. 

Click to expand...

Glad to see your coming round to my way of thi king 😘 if your level your level. Clear space between attacker and defender required.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Glad to see your coming round to my way of thi king 😘 if your level your level. Clear space between attacker and defender required.
		
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I've always said that's my biggest problem with it. A forward needs to know that if he's level with the defender then he's onside, but at the moment it's impossible. Because if you're level there will always be a little toe or a knee a fraction past the defender's so they're being given offside. That's what we need to get away from.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 1, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I've always said that's my biggest problem with it. A forward needs to know that if he's level with the defender then he's onside, but at the moment it's impossible. Because if you're level there will always be a little toe or a knee a fraction past the defender's so they're being given offside. That's what we need to get away from.
		
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I think the problem for me is that in its present format it is rammel. No one likes it. It is so wrong. So with that in mind something has to change. The “any part between an attacker and defender is level”  for me seems the logical step.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

Carragher and Neville had a massive debate about VAR (again) last night on Monday Night Football. I was kind of more with Neville saying he was still for VAR, but the rule changes have made it a joke, as well as the protocol for using it - the actual VAR itself isn't the problem. This top of the arm rubbish has ruined the handball rule AND the offsides because they're judging people offside by their upper arm. Every rule change they've made has made things worse.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 1, 2020)

However offside is defined there will always be controversial decisions. 

What would be the definition of clear space between the attackers and defender?

The body(trunk) may be past the defender but the trailing leg may still be overlapping. 

Offside or not?

I realise that it may be a forlorn hope due to the involvement of television broadcasters and their endless slo-mo replays but a return to the pre-VAR days would, for me, be best. 

Research showed that linesmen got more than 95% of calls right just relying upon the naked eye.

95% success rate for a COVID-19 vaccine is considered to be fantastic but is apparently not acceptable for something as trivial as offside in football.


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## yandabrown (Dec 1, 2020)

Scrap offside, they did for hockey:

The aims of this change were:​
to transfer the balance of power towards the offense,
to create more space around the circle and mid-field,
to help the flow of play, more goals and fewer whistles, and
to make the game more exciting and appealing to spectators.

New tactics were developed by many teams to exploit this new rule.

Maybe LT can comment on the outcomes.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			However offside is defined there will always be controversial decisions.

What would be the definition of clear space between the attackers and defender?

The body(trunk) may be past the defender but the trailing leg may still be overlapping.

Offside or not?

I realise that it may be a forlorn hope due to the involvement of television broadcasters and their endless slo-mo replays but a return to the pre-VAR days would, for me, be best.

Research showed that linesmen got more than 95% of calls right just relying upon the naked eye.

95% success rate for a COVID-19 vaccine is considered to be fantastic but is apparently not acceptable for something as trivial as offside in football.
		
Click to expand...

Well said.

I love people who quote the daylight argument as if its measurable or a defined thing, instead of coming up with something actually tangible. 1 inch, 1 foot, 2 foot, 1 yard???????? Then it will become an even bigger joke.

Simplicity is the answer.

If an attacker scores with the part that was offside, it's offside. However, if he scores with another part of his body that was onside, its okay. So when a forward slightly leans forward, hes hot given offside for his shoulder, when his feet were onside. Last nights goal would have stood and so would many more of the ones that have been disallowed by VAR for a part of the body that wasnt leaning forward, or worn (T shirt). It gives the attacker a slight advantage, as well.

If the lines touch on VAR, they can also make that count as a goal. 

Have we actually seen two lines dead in line yet? Surely it must have happened by now, or is it based on the slight roll of a mouse by a VAR official?

Either that or we'll go back to "daylight" and issue the officials with light meters, and be talking about Lux in the VAR arguments. Sunglasses on.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			However offside is defined there will always be controversial decisions.

What would be the definition of clear space between the attackers and defender?

The body(trunk) may be past the defender but the trailing leg may still be overlapping.

Offside or not?

I realise that it may be a forlorn hope due to the involvement of television broadcasters and their endless slo-mo replays but a return to the pre-VAR days would, for me, be best.

Research showed that linesmen got more than 95% of calls right just relying upon the naked eye.

95% success rate for a COVID-19 vaccine is considered to be fantastic but is apparently not acceptable for something as trivial as offside in football.
		
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I've said it before but my favoured solution would not be drawing any lines on it all, just let the ref watch the replay back and use his eye to decide if they are level or not - just as a linesman would in real time, but with the simple benefit of being able to slow it down. This would definitely be satisfactory in removing any blatant offside goals, it would mean attackers can still be level and not be given offside, plus it would not take 2 and a half minutes like the Ollie Watkins decision last night. But they are dead set on drawing lines on it and making it far more clinical than it needs to be. It is so frustrating as a fan watching the authorities make such a mess of it and not being able to have our feedback heard at all.




yandabrown said:



			Scrap offside, they did for hockey:

The aims of this change were:​

to transfer the balance of power towards the offense,
to create more space around the circle and mid-field,
to help the flow of play, more goals and fewer whistles, and
to make the game more exciting and appealing to spectators.

New tactics were developed by many teams to exploit this new rule.

Maybe LT can comment on the outcomes.
		
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What on earth?? Surely you're not proposing that for football, that would be absolutely mental.   For a start in hockey it's a lot harder to just lob the ball over everyone's heads to the guy you've got goal-hanging in the opposing box.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2020)

yandabrown said:



			Scrap offside, they did for hockey:

The aims of this change were:​

to transfer the balance of power towards the offense,
to create more space around the circle and mid-field,
to help the flow of play, more goals and fewer whistles, and
to make the game more exciting and appealing to spectators.

New tactics were developed by many teams to exploit this new rule.

Maybe LT can comment on the outcomes.
		
Click to expand...

It’s a totally different game unfortunately - in most levels of hockey the ability to fire the ball all the way down the pitch is risky and also takes a lot of skill where as in football it’s just a quick boot - also you can only score from within a specific area and the goal is a lot smaller with the GK covering a significant amount of the goal - as opposed to football where you can ping it from everywhere

But removing offsides did improve hockey greatly


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



View attachment 33800

How would we all feel?
		
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The limos keep the flags down now anyway until the balls out of play.
At least this would make more sense.
If a player thinks he is staying onside but his toenail ( or quiff) is off how is he supposed to judge that it’s stupid atm.
But any change has to be thought through and not make it worse.
This has happened with all the rules they have been tinkering with.
This looks a bit more sensible.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2020)

yandabrown said:



			Scrap offside, they did for hockey:

The aims of this change were:​

to transfer the balance of power towards the offense,
to create more space around the circle and mid-field,
to help the flow of play, more goals and fewer whistles, and
to make the game more exciting and appealing to spectators.

New tactics were developed by many teams to exploit this new rule.

Maybe LT can comment on the outcomes.
		
Click to expand...

LP has covered this really. It worked brilliantly in hockey. In the first few matches teams tried to leave a player up high but it was pretty easy to cut passes out over distance and so that soon stopped. Teams started to play normally, just without offside. It worked exactly how they hoped, more goals were scored, teams played with more freedom and you didn't come off the pitch knowing you had been robbed by an official making a wrong call on an offside  .

In football there is always the danger of Wimbledon tactics all over again except further up the pitch. Any lump can whack a ball, I'm not sure it would be a positive. On the whole I don't think the lump it tactic would work that well, the gaps would be too large between players and teams would be picked apart, but that would have to be seen. I think a compromise can be reached but that would involve adding another line on the pitch. Make it so that you can only be offisde within a certain area, 25 yards from goal for example. I think that would be a good compromise and an experiment worth trialling at U23 level for example to see how it went. Football however is as slow as golf in terms of rule changes so I think this would be too radical for them.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			LP has covered this really. It worked brilliantly in hockey. In the first few matches teams tried to leave a player up high but it was pretty easy to cut passes out over distance and so that soon stopped. Teams started to play normally, just without offside. It worked exactly how they hoped, more goals were scored, teams played with more freedom and you didn't come off the pitch knowing you had been robbed by an official making a wrong call on an offside  .

In football there is always the danger of Wimbledon tactics all over again except further up the pitch. Any lump can whack a ball, I'm not sure it would be a positive. On the whole I don't think the lump it tactic would work that well, the gaps would be too large between players and teams would be picked apart, but that would have to be seen. I think a compromise can be reached but that would involve adding another line on the pitch. Make it so that you can only be offisde within a certain area, 25 yards from goal for example. I think that would be a good compromise and an experiment worth trialling at U23 level for example to see how it went. Football however is as slow as golf in terms of rule changes so I think this would be too radical for them.
		
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It would make a 6’4” CF worth a fortune overnight if teams were able to go route one and pick up second balls with no offside.
But is that what we want to see.
Goal hanging is an art but no offside you could play into your fourties if you could finish.
It’s ott for a simple problem just stop giving offside for toenails.
My solution is simple if any part of the strikers body is level with the last defender then he is level and therefore onside it’s easy but made very complicated by VAR refs not the technology.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hartson had more hair, less beard in them days.

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So your picking your team and you just have to pick your CF who do you pick?
The PL top goalscorer of all time,or John Hartson.
Tough one.!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Would it seem terribly 'big club' to suggest that villa are winding up the ref and he's lost sight of what actually constitutes a foul??
		
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Not just this ref it’s all of them.
I don’t know myself now.
If I was still playing I would be off after 10 mins.
It’s not a contact sport anymore.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

Why are we discussing Watkins goal for Offside last night when it should of been a penalty? As Neville rightly said that’s not an issue with VAR, that’s Stockley Park not reviewing the whole passage of play, it was a foul before he was offside.

As for level is onside, it is now, it’s only offside if the attacker is ahead of the defender and if his toe or his head is 1mm or 1cm ahead of the defender then they are not level.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Why are we discussing Watkins goal for Offside last night when it should of been a penalty? As Neville rightly said that’s not an issue with VAR, that’s Stockley Park not reviewing the whole passage of play, it was a foul before he was offside.

*As for level is onside, it is now, it’s only offside if the attacker is ahead of the defender and if his toe or his head is 1mm or 1cm ahead of the defender then they are not level.*

Click to expand...

That's completely wrong. If you're running side by side with a player, totally level, depending on what frame you pause it, your toe might be a fraction ahead of theirs or vice versa - unless you have completely identical stride pattern. And you cannot legislate for that as a player in real time can you? Basically if their torso and head are level with the defender's they should be deemed level, irrespective of their toe being forward because of random chance of their stride pattern in that frame where they've paused it. 

Think about what a forward can reasonable be expected to do to keep himself onside. He'll be looking along the line keeping his body level with the defender, he cannot be reasonably expected to check his stride pattern to keep his toes back from the defender's toes, that would be insane.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Why are we discussing Watkins goal for Offside last night when it should of been a penalty? As Neville rightly said that’s not an issue with VAR, that’s Stockley Park not reviewing the whole passage of play, it was a foul before he was offside.

As for level is onside, it is now, it’s only offside if the attacker is ahead of the defender and if his toe or his head is 1mm or 1cm ahead of the defender then they are not level.

Click to expand...

For 3 reasons 

One offside . So can't be a pen

Two he scored so if the goal had stood it wouldn't have been pulled back for a pen it would have stood 

Three wasn't it outside the box the contact started?

So because the goal was deemed offside it can't be a pen.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

Right, I'm now officially dead set against VAR.

There is some great debate, suggestions etc, but when we have to take suggestions from Hockey-ists, I'm drawing a line.









PS the line may be a squiggly one.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			For 3 reasons

One offside . So can't be a pen

Two he scored so if the goal had stood it wouldn't have been pulled back for a pen it would have stood

Three wasn't it outside the box the contact started?

So because the goal was deemed offside it can't be a pen.
		
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The foul was before the offside, he threw his arms around Watkins' neck as he was about to run past him. So yes, I think penalty to Villa should have been the outcome. The timeline is foul > offside > goal. Can't be a goal because he was offside, but he was fouled prior to being offside so you'd pull it back to the foul which occurred first, and therefore it's a pen. Regarding the contact being outside, I believe the rule is contact that continues into the box is given as a penalty.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That's completely wrong. If you're running side by side with a player, totally level, depending on what frame you pause it, your toe might be a fraction ahead of theirs or vice versa - unless you have completely identical stride pattern. And you cannot legislate for that as a player in real time can you? Basically if their torso and head are level with the defender's they should be deemed level, irrespective of their toe being forward because of random chance of their stride pattern in that frame where they've paused it.

Think about what a forward can reasonable be expected to do to keep himself onside. He'll be looking along the line keeping his body level with the defender, he cannot be reasonably expected to check his stride pattern to keep his toes back from the defender's toes, that would be insane.
		
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You’re missing it! If one toe is ahead of the other, regardless of when they freeze the frame they ARE NOT level.

What you are asking for is a margin of error and anything within that margin is deemed onside.

But remember, if that margin of error is for example 2cm then 2.01cm would be offside.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			For 3 reasons

One offside . So can't be a pen

Two he scored so if the goal had stood it wouldn't have been pulled back for a pen it would have stood

Three wasn't it outside the box the contact started?

So because the goal was deemed offside it can't be a pen.
		
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You’re contradicting yourself, what was the first offence? It was the foul (we may disagree whether it was inside or outside the box) so everything after that is irrelevant.

Just like the VVD/Pickford incident, the first offence was the offside and whether we agree or not on the subsequent action, it was deemed irrelevant.

That is not VAR’s fault, they are incompetent Officials.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re contradicting yourself, what was the first offence? It was the foul (we may disagree whether it was inside or outside the box) so everything after that is irrelevant.

Just like the VVD/Pickford incident, the first offence was the offside and whether we agree or not on the subsequent action, it was deemed irrelevant.

That is not VAR’s fault, they are incompetent Officials.
		
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As said elsewhere, if a foul carries on into the box, a penalty can be awarded over a free kick, only.

Nothing like the VVD/trex incident. The first offence was offside, the second offence was GBH, m'lud.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re missing it! If one toe is ahead of the other, regardless of when they freeze the frame they ARE NOT level.

What you are asking for is a margin of error and anything within that margin is deemed onside.

*But remember, if that margin of error is for example 2cm then 2.01cm would be offside*.
		
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Not quite. The margin of error means that if the computer / ref etc says offside then they definitely were offside. Not by a hair or a little toe as those margins are too tight to call. It means a little toe and a bit

I get what you are saying, there will always be a border, a line etc but the margin of error makes it a non argument


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			As said elsewhere, if a foul carries on into the box, a penalty can be awarded over a free kick, only.

Nothing like the VVD/trex incident. The first offence was offside, the second offence was GBH, m'lud. 

Click to expand...

Pray tell us what action was taken by the Referee after VVD was given offside?

Sits and waits quietly while the tumbleweed blows by...........


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re missing it! If one toe is ahead of the other, regardless of when they freeze the frame they ARE NOT level.

What you are asking for is a margin of error and anything within that margin is deemed onside.

But remember, if that margin of error is for example 2cm then 2.01cm would be offside.
		
Click to expand...

I don't agree with you, because by your logic it's impossible to actually be level if you analyse it forensically down to a fraction of a millimetre. It should not be that clinical. 

This happened a year ago:



Ok it's not the best angle, but I remember from all the angles he looked absolutely level with that defender. Even while doing this review I felt sure they were going to give the goal, but it was given offside. He is not offside there. I don't care if his shoulder is a fraction in front of the defender's knee, that is absolute nonsense. Pukki there has kept himself level with the defender, which is all he can be expected to do. He's level! Forensic analysis is not required, he is level to the naked eye and that's all the detail you need. 

Call it margin for error if you want, but if a forward has done all he can reasonably be expected to do to stay onside by staying level with the defender, we should not punish him by analysing in forensic detail to show one of his leg hairs was actually offside. It's ridiculous, and I'm not sure even you would want that, I suspect you're just arguing the Devil's advocate because that's what you always do. Why would anyone want this? That picture above is not offside, I don't care what you say. Strikers are going to need Matrix binary vision to stay onside if it is. Football is played by humans, not robots.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not quite. The margin of error means that if the computer / ref etc says offside then they definitely were offside. Not by a hair or a little toe as those margins are too tight to call. It means a little toe and a bit

I get what you are saying, there will always be a border, a line etc but the margin of error makes it a non argument
		
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There is no way the FA/PL is going to allow the margin of error to be different to different Referees, they will have to be very exact in their wording so the Clubs know exactly what is and isn’t offside.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re contradicting yourself, what was the first offence? It was the foul (we may disagree whether it was inside or outside the box) so everything after that is irrelevant.

Just like the VVD/Pickford incident, the first offence was the offside and whether we agree or not on the subsequent action, it was deemed irrelevant.

That is not VAR’s fault, they are incompetent Officials.
		
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Say the ref sees the "foul" plays advantage.. attacker scores .. it's then deemed offside 

It can't be brought back for the foul because the advantage lead to a goal.. which was overule


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## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			The foul was before the offside, he threw his arms around Watkins' neck as he was about to run past him. So yes, I think penalty to Villa should have been the outcome. The timeline is foul > offside > goal. Can't be a goal because he was offside, but he was fouled prior to being offside so you'd pull it back to the foul which occurred first, and therefore it's a pen. Regarding the contact being outside, I believe the rule is contact that continues into the box is given as a penalty.
		
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Once you score it's reviewed as a goal 

The build up is then irrelevant


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't agree with you, because by your logic it's impossible to actually be level if you analyse it forensically down to a fraction of a millimetre. It should not be that clinical.

This happened a year ago:
View attachment 33805


Ok it's not the best angle, but I remember from all the angles he looked absolutely level with that defender. Even while doing this review I felt sure they were going to give the goal, but it was given offside. He is not offside there. I don't care if his shoulder is a fraction in front of the defender's knee, that is absolute nonsense. Pukki there has kept himself level with the defender, which is all he can be expected to do. He's level! Forensic analysis is not required, he is level to the naked eye and that's all the detail you need.

Call it margin for error if you want, but if a forward has done all he can reasonably be expected to do to stay onside by staying level with the defender, we should not punish him by analysing in forensic detail to show one of his leg hairs was actually offside. It's ridiculous, and I'm not sure even you would want that, I suspect you're just arguing the Devil's advocate because that's what you always do. Why would anyone want this? That picture above is not offside, I don't care what you say. Strikers are going to need Matrix binary vision to stay onside if it is. Football is played by humans, not robots.
		
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I agree with you how rubbish VAR is, but even the decision above is down to the current rules and the idiot drawing the lines. There is no method that will be controversey free.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Pray tell us what action was taken by the Referee after VVD was given offside?

Sits and waits quietly while the tumbleweed blows by...........

Click to expand...

After the weekend we just had and the inconsistencies shown, even by the same VAR refs, your seriously saying that the actions taken by refs are always correct?

Sheesh.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Once you score it's reviewed as a goal

The build up is then irrelevant
		
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lol what? Penalties are reviewed, there was no goal here because the scorer was offside (after being fouled). I think you need to get the rose tints off as it's fairly clear a penalty was the correct outcome here. Even Carragher and Neville agreed on that almost instantly, and they never agree on anything. I think Rice even suggested in his interview that Ogbonna new he had fouled him!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Say the ref sees the "foul" plays advantage.. attacker scores .. it's then deemed offside

It can't be brought back for the foul because the advantage lead to a goal.. which was overule
		
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Yes he can, they do it all the time let the game continue to see if the “fouled” team gain an advantage and in the 2 seconds last night he’d award the goal, then be overturned for offside and then give the foul.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I agree with you how rubbish VAR is, but even the decision above is down to the current rules and the idiot drawing the lines. There is no method that will be controversey free.
		
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Ok, we've reach some agreement at least. 😁  Because that's effectively what I'm saying, drawing the lines on it causes more problems than it solves. You just need to watch the replay and make a simple judgement call, then we wouldn't be talking about margin for error and whatnot, it would go back to the official's judgement - they'd just get a bit of help in seeing it again.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			After the weekend we just had and the inconsistencies shown, even by the same VAR refs, your seriously saying that the actions taken by refs are always correct?

Sheesh.
		
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Are you saying they are always wrong?

Double Sheesh


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Say the ref sees the "foul" plays advantage.. attacker scores .. it's then deemed offside

It can't be brought back for the foul because the advantage lead to a goal.. which was overule
		
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 I think you've confused yourself.. if he gave advantage and the player was then offside then there was no advantage was there. The fact he put it in the net was totally irrelevant here.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Ok, we've reach some agreement at least. 😁  Because that's effectively what I'm saying, drawing the lines on it causes more problems than it solves. You just need to watch the replay and make a simple judgement call, then we wouldn't be talking about margin for error and whatnot, it would go back to the official's judgement - they'd just get a bit of help in seeing it again. 

Click to expand...

Until a Ref gives a decision against LPool that he gave for Man Utd the week before.....and all hell breaks loose.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			There is no way the FA/PL is going to allow the margin of error to be different to different Referees, they will have to be very exact in their wording so the Clubs know exactly what is and isn’t offside.
		
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The margin of error for offside would be built built into the VAR system. The point is it can not guarantee perfect angles, perfect lines. Cricket has built this in, I believe tennis has as well. The margin would be a matter of mm, maybe cm's, but other sports have managed it already so why not football?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The margin of error for offside would be built built into the VAR system. The point is it can not guarantee perfect angles, perfect lines. Cricket has built this in, I believe tennis has as well. The margin would be a matter of mm, maybe cm's, but other sports have managed it already so why not football?
		
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Great, specify a margin in and tell everyone, no issue with that.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2020)

Orikoru said:



 I think you've confused yourself.. if he gave advantage and the player was then offside then there was no advantage was there. The fact he put it in the net was totally irrelevant here.
		
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There was though. Think about it for a second. The on field officials gave a goal so was advantage.

Say u got advantage then smashed the ball through to kane but he is offside 

That's your fault for wasting advantage not no advantage


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## Papas1982 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			There was though. Think about it for a second. The on field officials gave a goal so was advantage.

Say u got advantage then smashed the ball through to kane but he is offside

That's your fault for wasting advantage not no advantage
		
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There have been examples of goals being checked for offside and penalties too. 

For man Utd at least once at least I'm sure of it. 

In your example of the first ball is played whilst Kane is offside then they haven't had an advantage imo. It it was the second past after play on then I'd agree.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			There have been examples of goals being checked for offside and penalties too.

For man Utd at least once at least I'm sure of it.

In your example of the first ball is played whilst Kane is offside then they haven't had an advantage imo. It it was the second past after play on then I'd agree.
		
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I believe if he had missed the chance it would have been reviewed for a pen ... But because he scored it that ended that chance of review as he scored the chance 

Would be double jeopardy

Ie he has benefited for play carrying on but then it's offside in end 

But doesn't matter .. villa should be in champ anyways ... Dodgy hawk eye decisions keeping them up so think they can keep the complaints to a minimum


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I believe if he had missed the chance it would have been reviewed for a pen ... But because he scored it that ended that chance of review as he scored the chance

Would be double jeopardy

Ie he has benefited for play carrying on but then it's offside in end

But doesn't matter .. villa should be in champ anyways ... Dodgy hawk eye decisions keeping them up so think they can keep the complaints to a minimum
		
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There wasn't even a chance because he was offside. There was nothing - no advantage. 

Strange for you to call them a championship side when they totally outplayed you yesterday!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			There wasn't even a chance because he was offside. There was nothing - no advantage.

Strange for you to call them a championship side when they totally outplayed you yesterday!
		
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Nothing to do with being outplayed . I'm saying that they should be in championship because they benefited from a dodgy Hawkeye call to stay up by 1 point that they shouldn't have got. Hawkeye even admitted the mistake and that it should have been a goal to Sheffield United which would have kept Bournemouth up.

So they can't really complain about decisions not going their way when they benefited from a massive one to stay in the division.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Nothing to do with being outplayed . I'm saying that they should be in championship because they benefited from a dodgy Hawkeye call to stay up by 1 point that they shouldn't have got. Hawkeye even admitted the mistake and that it should have been a goal to Sheffield United which would have kept Bournemouth up.

So they can't really complain about decisions not going their way when they benefited from a massive one to stay in the division.
		
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I don't really subscribe to that theory. If the goal is awarded everything that happens after that point is potentially different. They could have equalised after it, they could have had different results afterwards - you change one thing in history and infinite knock-on effects are possible. It's like when you say so-and-so should have had a hat-trick when he's missed three chances - if you score the first one you don't get the other two chances.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not just this ref it’s all of them.
I don’t know myself now.
If I was still playing I would be off after 10 mins.
*It’s not a contact sport anymore*.
		
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Basketball is a much rougher game and that is non contact...we're playing a Footie version of Netball...I reckon Grealish has his own personal sniper!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Right, I'm now officially dead set against VAR.

There is some great debate, suggestions etc, but when we have to take suggestions from Hockey-ists, I'm drawing a line.









PS the line may be a squiggly one.

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It’s not VAR really.
It’s the muppets they have put in charge of it.
And they have screwed the laws to try and make it work ,but it isn’t.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you saying they are always wrong?

Double Sheesh

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Nope, never said anything like that, not even close.

You, however are saying that due to the VAR / Ref making a decision thats the be all and end all of what was correct.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Until a Ref gives a decision against LPool that he gave for Man Utd the week before.....and all hell breaks loose.

Click to expand...

The weekend hit the bar but the other way around.

Penalty given against Liverpool, same incident not given FOR Man U.

Refs eh?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The margin of error for offside would be built built into the VAR system. The point is it can not guarantee perfect angles, perfect lines. Cricket has built this in, I believe tennis has as well. The margin would be a matter of mm, maybe cm's, but other sports have managed it already so why not football?
		
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Smaller pitches for both of them.

With cricket they only need a 10 foot square fixed cameras for most decisions. Tennis just needs an eleccy line a few inches wide, football is over 100 yards pitch, in the main.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nope, never said anything like that, not even close.

You, however are saying that due to the VAR / Ref making a decision thats the be all and end all of what was correct.
		
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No I’m not, I’m saying that’s the fact.

Was anything changed reference last night or with VVD? No, so it’s irrelevant whether we believe they were right or wrong when it comes to what actually happened.

I believe we all wished we had Officials that got every single decision correct, but we also know that’ll never happen.

Sadly we have to accept they get decisions right and wrong, hope the ones they recognise or the powers that be recognise (not your biased supporter) they got wrong they learn from or if the case may be, they change the laws if needed.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Smaller pitches for both of them.

With cricket they only need a 10 foot square fixed cameras for most decisions. Tennis just needs an eleccy line a few inches wide, football is over 100 yards pitch, in the main.
		
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That makes the margin of error feature even more relevant. Tennis is the easiest to set up and they have umpires call still.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Basketball is a much rougher game and that is non contact...we're playing a Footie version of Netball...I reckon Grealish has his own personal sniper!
		
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Modern footballers are very clever.
They run like the wind to get in front of an op and then put the brakes on and just fall over at the featherlight touch of an opponent.
I blame the refs for most of it .
They are conned by players from the first minute to the last.
But they should be able to tell what’s a blatant dive imo.
It’s rife in the game now as refs are just not good enough.
Every teams got them.
This and VAR it’s put me off watching the game now.


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## DanFST (Dec 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Modern footballers are very clever.
They run like the wind to get in front of an op and then put the brakes on and just fall over at the featherlight touch of an opponent.
I blame the refs for most of it .
They are conned by players from the first minute to the last.
But they should be able to tell what’s a blatant dive imo.
It’s rife in the game now as refs are just not good enough.
Every teams got them.
This and VAR it’s put me off watching the game now.
		
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Spot on, It changed when players "had the right to go down". If i'd have gone down like that when I played 20 years ago my knees would be at high risk the rest of the game, and that was to a high level!  

I get a lot out of watching league 2 and below football now.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Modern footballers are very clever.
They run like the wind to get in front of an op and then put the brakes on and just fall over at the featherlight touch of an opponent.
I blame the refs for most of it .
They are conned by players from the first minute to the last.
But they should be able to tell what’s a blatant dive imo.
It’s rife in the game now as refs are just not good enough.
Every teams got them.
This and VAR it’s put me off watching the game now.
		
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Sorry, just to clarify, you’re blaming the Refs for being conned by cheating?

They get one look at an incident at a range from 1 yard to 50 yards whilst also being expected to keep an eye on just about everything else going on and they should be able to tell the difference?

Sorry, not having that, agree Referees need to up their game, but the players need to up theirs as well.


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## pendodave (Dec 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Spot on, It changed when players "had the right to go down". If i'd have gone down like that when I played 20 years ago my knees would be at high risk the rest of the game, and that was to a high level! 

I get a lot out of watching league 2 and below football now.
		
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Completely agree re "right to go down". Is it in the laws of the game? I don't think so. We've had this talked into the "new normal" by gormless ex pros on the telly.
If contact was sufficient to impede/trip a player, it's a foul, if not (and a lot of them aren't) play on.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry, just to clarify, you’re blaming the Refs for being conned by cheating?

They get one look at an incident at a range from 1 yard to 50 yards whilst also being expected to keep an eye on just about everything else going on and they should be able to tell the difference?

Sorry, not having that, agree Referees need to up their game, but the players need to up theirs as well.
		
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Sorry if a ref can’t spot a blatant dive they should not be reffing.
And yes I am they can’t tell the difference between a good tackle and a foul anymore.

Answer me this “ why do so many players go down in the box when they have been fouled ,but not enough to put them on the floor”
Imo it’s because the ref dosnt give it so they are “entitled to go down if they feel contact”
It’s embarrassing at times.
But if the ref can be conned that easily he shouldn’t be out there.
I am not saying players don’t cheat they do


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry if a ref can’t spot a blatant dive they should not be reffing.
And yes I am they can’t tell the difference between a good tackle and a foul anymore.

Answer me this “ why do so many players go down in the box when they have been fouled ,but not enough to put them on the floor”
Imo it’s because the ref dosnt give it so they are “entitled to go down if they feel contact”
It’s embarrassing at times.
But if the ref can be conned that easily he shouldn’t be out there.
I am not saying players don’t cheat they do
		
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Let’s break this down.

You’re saying players ARE fouled and unless they go down the Ref won’t give it?

So if IT IS a foul surely those going down easy are actually bringing the foul to light.

If they HAVEN’T been fouled and go down and get the decision then THEY are a cheat and should get a retrospective ban and if they keep doing it, their team should lose points, fines are no deterrent.


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## fundy (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Let’s break this down.

You’re saying players ARE fouled and unless they go down the Ref won’t give it?

So if IT IS a foul surely those going down easy are actually bringing the foul to light.

If they HAVEN’T been fouled and go down and get the decision then THEY are a cheat and should get a retrospective ban and if they keep doing it, their team should lose points, fines are no deterrent.
		
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Lets break it down further, in a lot of these cases there is contact but not enough to impede the player or make it a foul, going down when you dont need to is diving!

Players now go down to make it look worse and "win" their team a penalty/free kick, all openly encouraged my managers commentators and fans when it suits them


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			Lets break it down further, in a lot of these cases there is contact but not enough to impede the player or make it a foul, going down when you dont need to is diving!

Players now go down to make it look worse and "win" their team a penalty/free kick, all openly encouraged my managers commentators and fans when it suits them
		
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I totally oppose those players who feel they need to “win” a penalty/free kick etc when they haven’t been fouled.

But my answer was in response to CC saying they had been fouled and went down to almost make sure the Ref has seen it or will give it.

Only one of those, imo, is blatant cheating.


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## fundy (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I totally oppose those players who feel they need to “win” a penalty/free kick etc when they haven’t been fouled.

But my answer was in response to CC *saying they had been fouled and went down to almost make sure the Ref has seen it or will give it*.

Only one of those, imo, is blatant cheating.
		
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depends on whether you agree theyve actually been fouled i guess


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			depends on whether you agree theyve actually been fouled i guess
		
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I was only going by him saying they had.🤷‍♂️.

I don’t think anyone on here will condone cheating.


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## sunshine (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re missing it! If one toe is ahead of the other, regardless of when they freeze the frame they ARE NOT level.

What you are asking for is a margin of error and anything within that margin is deemed onside.

But remember, if that margin of error is for example 2cm then 2.01cm would be offside.
		
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When did football turn into a 100m sprint finish? It's sad that this is where we are...


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## DanFST (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I was only going by him saying they had.🤷‍♂️.

I don’t think anyone on here will condone cheating.
		
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"Arsene Wenger has praised West Ham winger Matt Jarvis for not going to ground to win a penalty during Arsenal’s 3-1 win at the Emirates on Tuesday -- but Sam Allardyce insisted his player had been too honest. Jarvis, who scored the opening goal of the game, was challenged in the penalty area by Bacary Sagna after 16 minutes but, while there was contact, the West Ham attacker remained on his feet."

The fact that this is even in print shows how bad the game is. No one knows what a foul is anymore. This should not be a thing.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

The problem lies when the foul is enough contact to prevent them getting the ball but not enough to send them to the floor, the refs should still be giving the foul but they never do. This is why players started going down easily to highlight that.


In other news, I just read that Villa v Newcastle this Friday has been postponed. Apparently Covid outbreak at Newcastle's training ground.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			"Arsene Wenger has praised West Ham winger Matt Jarvis for not going to ground to win a penalty during Arsenal’s 3-1 win at the Emirates on Tuesday -- but Sam Allardyce insisted his player had been too honest. Jarvis, who scored the opening goal of the game, was challenged in the penalty area by Bacary Sagna after 16 minutes but, while there was contact, the West Ham attacker remained on his feet."

The fact that this is even in print shows how bad the game is. No one knows what a foul is anymore. This should not be a thing.
		
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The fact you’ve gone back 6 years to find a quote says enough! A quote that doesn’t even say if it was a foul or not, not all contact is a foul after all.

Players/Managers/Ex-Pro’s are constantly talking about entitlement to go down with any contact and it’s wrong.

As I said in the post you answered, nobody on here will condone cheating and as far as I’m aware Sam Allardyce isn’t on here.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

sunshine said:



			When did football turn into a 100m sprint finish? It's sad that this is where we are...






Click to expand...

Your post makes no sense or you don’t watch football.


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## DanFST (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The fact you’ve gone back 6 years to find a quote says enough! A quote that doesn’t even say if it was a foul or not, not all contact is a foul after all.

Players/Managers/Ex-Pro’s are constantly talking about entitlement to go down with any contact and it’s wrong.

As I said in the post you answered, nobody on here will condone cheating and as far as I’m aware Sam Allardyce isn’t on here.
		
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Not really, I was there and it's one that sticks in my head. I can tell you it was a foul, Jarvis tried to stay up, tripped and scuffed the shot.  Here's The post match analysis after:

Speaking as a pundit for Sky Sports, Gary Neville was equally as bemused at Jarvis’ honesty, saying: “He should have gone down. Well done, your team haven’t won a game. You can either be an angel and do what Matt Jarvis did and get a pat on the back off his nan when he goes home tonight, or he can win his team a penalty. The referee won’t give it if you don’t go down. Sam [Allardyce] said it, if you don’t go down you don’t get a penalty. It’s a foul. I suppose in some ways people can say ‘It’s disappointing to hear you say that Gary’ -- well then be disappointed, because ultimately that’s the game.”

The game is F****d, pundits making excuses. Inept referee's that are scared to use common sense. The FA should have stamped on this ages ago, but they didn't and now it's just the game. I hate it.


I think sunshine is referring to this: "the beautiful game"


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Not really, I was there and it's one that sticks in my head. I can tell you it was a foul, Jarvis tried to stay up, tripped and scuffed the shot.  Here's The post match analysis after:

Speaking as a pundit for Sky Sports, Gary Neville was equally as bemused at Jarvis’ honesty, saying: “He should have gone down. Well done, your team haven’t won a game. You can either be an angel and do what Matt Jarvis did and get a pat on the back off his nan when he goes home tonight, or he can win his team a penalty. The referee won’t give it if you don’t go down. Sam [Allardyce] said it, if you don’t go down you don’t get a penalty. It’s a foul. I suppose in some ways people can say ‘It’s disappointing to hear you say that Gary’ -- well then be disappointed, because ultimately that’s the game.”

The game is F****d, pundits making excuses. Inept referee's that are scared to use common sense. The FA should have stamped on this ages ago, but they didn't and now it's just the game. I hate it.
		
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I don’t disagree with anything in your last paragraph but I’d add it’s been going downhill for years, checkout Francis Lee in the early 70’s, and we have to ask why so many players do cheat, for me it’s because of the money involved and the spineless FA.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2020)

Djd


DanFST said:



			Not really, I was there and it's one that sticks in my head. I can tell you it was a foul, Jarvis tried to stay up, tripped and scuffed the shot.  Here's The post match analysis after:

Speaking as a pundit for Sky Sports, Gary Neville was equally as bemused at Jarvis’ honesty, saying: “He should have gone down. Well done, your team haven’t won a game. You can either be an angel and do what Matt Jarvis did and get a pat on the back off his nan when he goes home tonight, or he can win his team a penalty. The referee won’t give it if you don’t go down. Sam [Allardyce] said it, if you don’t go down you don’t get a penalty. It’s a foul. I suppose in some ways people can say ‘It’s disappointing to hear you say that Gary’ -- well then be disappointed, because ultimately that’s the game.”

The game is F****d, pundits making excuses. Inept referee's that are scared to use common sense. The FA should have stamped on this ages ago, but they didn't and now it's just the game. I hate it.


I think sunshine is referring to this: "the beautiful game"

View attachment 33806

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I remember that one with Jarvis as I was at the game!

Motd praised him for his honesty but gets you no where 

Maybe if the player had gone down yest he would have got a pen


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Not really, I was there and it's one that sticks in my head. I can tell you it was a foul, Jarvis tried to stay up, tripped and scuffed the shot.  Here's The post match analysis after:

Speaking as a pundit for Sky Sports, Gary Neville was equally as bemused at Jarvis’ honesty, saying: “He should have gone down. Well done, your team haven’t won a game. You can either be an angel and do what Matt Jarvis did and get a pat on the back off his nan when he goes home tonight, or he can win his team a penalty. The referee won’t give it if you don’t go down. Sam [Allardyce] said it, if you don’t go down you don’t get a penalty. It’s a foul. I suppose in some ways people can say ‘It’s disappointing to hear you say that Gary’ -- well then be disappointed, because ultimately that’s the game.”

The game is F****d, pundits making excuses. Inept referee's that are scared to use common sense. The FA should have stamped on this ages ago, but they didn't and now it's just the game. I hate it.
		
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I think Neville was right in a way, although he should have pointed his finger of blame at the refs who don't give fouls when players try and stay on their feet. Rather than criticising Jarvis. If refs were better players wouldn't have started doing it.


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## DanFST (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t disagree with anything in your last paragraph but I’d add it’s been going downhill for years, checkout Francis Lee in the early 70’s, and we have to ask why so many players do cheat, for me it’s because of the money involved and the spineless FA.
		
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My sister got married at Terry Venables' small hotel in Spain, was there a few nights and had quite a few beers with him, we had this same conversation. The Fa/Uefa/Insert footballing body here is run by absolute self serving clowns that have never played the game before. They don't care. In turn none of the ex pro's want anything to do with it. Then you have referee's that have never played the game before, that are "supported" and follow procedures that come from the governing body, who have no idea about the game. No ex pro's want to be referee's, why would they be?

Look at Cricket, Rugby etc. Governing bodies and rules officials that have played the game before. Only the people in the governing bodies aided by the rules officials could turn VAR (which should have been a slam dunk) into what it is now, an absolute farce.




Orikoru said:



			I think Neville was right in a way, although he should have pointed his finger of blame at the refs who don't give fouls when players try and stay on their feet. Rather than criticising Jarvis. If refs were better players wouldn't have started doing it.
		
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I too think he was right, but the refs aren't capable of being any better. They haven't played the game before, they get no good support from the powers that be. It takes a very "special" type of person to become a ref.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Let’s break this down.

You’re saying players ARE fouled and unless they go down the Ref won’t give it?

So if IT IS a foul surely those going down easy are actually bringing the foul to light.
If they HAVEN’T been fouled and go down and get the decision then THEY are a cheat and should get a retrospective ban and if they keep doing it, their team should lose points, fines are no deterrent.
		
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Why do professional footballers go down if his shirt is pulled?
Because refs are so weak they don’t give a foul.
So they resort to diving.
They are bringing the foul to light that’s my point!!!
But if the ref gave the foul for the shirt pull they would not need to embellish it.
Hence my point the refs are at fault for not giving the foul until the player has to resort to diving!

The one who annoys me the most is Kane he gets his body between the man and the ball ,puts his feet together and just falls over the refs give it almost every time.
You couldn’t get Kane on the floor if you tried, unless he wants to go down Grealish is the same.
But they aren’t the only ones all teams do it including Liverpool’s players .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Why do professional footballers go down if his shirt is pulled?
Because refs are so weak they don’t give a foul.
So they resort to diving.
They are bringing the foul to light that’s my point!!!
But if the ref gave the foul for the shirt pull they would not need to embellish it.
Hence my point the refs are at fault for not giving the foul until the player has to resort to diving!

The one who annoys me the most is Kane he gets his body between the man and the ball ,puts his feet together and just falls over the refs give it almost every time.
You couldn’t get Kane on the floor if you tried, unless he wants to go down Grealish is the same.
But they aren’t the only ones all teams do it including Liverpool’s players .
		
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A Referee has one angle, if he’s the wrong side of the shirt pull how on earth would he see it?

You’re expecting the Referees to spot absolutely everything! Why aren’t you questioning why the defender has to resort to shirt pulling?

Our Referees need to drastically improve, they are of a poor standard, but professional footballers are also getting worse with what they’ll do to cheat.

You say every Team has people who dive, so how about, like was put before, the FA sort their act out and starting getting them to change their behaviour, putting it all on the refs is wrong.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

Just a small reroute “ who was the last player in the Prem to be retrospectively sanctioned for diving”?
I can’t remember as it’s just seen as part of the game now.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			A Referee has one angle, if he’s the wrong side of the shirt pull how on earth would he see it?

You’re expecting the Referees to spot absolutely everything! Why aren’t you questioning why the defender has to resort to shirt pulling?

Our Referees need to drastically improve, they are of a poor standard, but professional footballers are also getting worse with what they’ll do to cheat.

You say every Team has people who dive, so how about, like was put before, the FA sort their act out and starting getting them to change their behaviour, putting it all on the refs is wrong.
		
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Sorry either I have not worded it correctly or you are not reading it right.
If a referee sees a foul but dosnt give it until the player embellishes it with a dive that’s incompetent on the refs game.
If he gives the foul in the first place players won’t dive.
Your seriously telling me they don’t see the shirt pulling at corners/ free kicks.
If they don’t then they definitely should not be in the PL.

If you want to discuss incompetence in players / FA fine but I thought we were discussing referees


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just a small reroute “ who was the last player in the Prem to be retrospectively sanctioned for diving”?
I can’t remember as it’s just seen as part of the game now.
		
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Lanzini and Niasse are the only 2, none since 2017.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry either I have not worded it correctly or you are not reading it right.
If a referee sees a foul but dosnt give it until the player embellishes it with a dive that’s incompetent on the refs game.
If he gives the foul in the first place players won’t dive.
Your seriously telling me they don’t see the shirt pulling at corners/ free kicks.
If they don’t then they definitely should not be in the PL.

If you want to discuss incompetence in players / FA fine but I thought we were discussing referees
		
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What’s the time scale between the player feeling his shirt being pulled and the player diving? Fractions of seconds, in that time you’re expecting the Ref to react, whst if the shirt pull is on one player and not the one with the ball? Is the Ref meant to spot everything?

The reason I mentioned players/FA is because you can’t blame it all on the Ref, so I’ll ask again.

Why is the defender resorting to shirt pulling?


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Lanzini and Niasse are the only 2, none since 2017.
		
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Well that’s the answer about the FA.

I do feel a bit sorry for SOME refs but not all.
They are just not good enough ,but have been given lots of new toys ( VAR) and they have made an absolute mess of it.
Up to a stage now where they won’t make a decision on their own and use VAR as a crutch to bail them out.
They have taken any decision making from the linesman / woman except if the ball goes out of play .


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			What’s the time scale between the player feeling his shirt being pulled and the player diving? Fractions of seconds, in that time you’re expecting the Ref to react, whst if the shirt pull is on one player and not the one with the ball? Is the Ref meant to spot everything?

The reason I mentioned players/FA is because you can’t blame it all on the Ref, so I’ll ask again.

Why is the defender resorting to shirt pulling?
		
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We were discussing refs.
We all know players are cheats and will get away with anything they can. That’s a given!
The FA are just incompetent.

If refs give pens for shirt pulling then next week then the week after the managers will make sure it dosnt happen anymore.
It’s the going to ground with the mearest of touches that bugs me most as in my original post.
It’s this the ref should see imo.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			We were discussing refs.
We all know players are cheats and will get away with anything they can. That’s a given!
The FA are just incompetent.

If refs give pens for shirt pulling then next week then the week after the managers will make sure it dosnt happen anymore.
It’s the going to ground with the mearest of touches that bugs me most as in my original post.
It’s this the ref should see imo.
		
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Had it last night rice pen against him (correct call) but the pull was tiny. None the less a pull 

Later in match defender almost had hallers shirt off his back (outside box) nothing given


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			We were discussing refs.
We all know players are cheats and will get away with anything they can. That’s a given!
The FA are just incompetent.

If refs give pens for shirt pulling then next week then the week after the managers will make sure it dosnt happen anymore.
It’s the going to ground with the mearest of touches that bugs me most as in my original post.
It’s this the ref should see imo.
		
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Are you suggesting the Refs are seeing shirt pulls and ignoring them?

Meanwhile let the players continue to cheat and do nothing about it!

We are going around in circles, I’m out.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you suggesting the Refs are seeing shirt pulls and ignoring them?

Meanwhile let the players continue to cheat and do nothing about it!

We are going around in circles, I’m out.
		
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Yes that’s what I am saying.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

How’s that not a red card on Mane.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Had it last night rice pen against him (correct call) but the pull was tiny. None the less a pull

Later in match defender almost had hallers shirt off his back (outside box) nothing given
		
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Inconsistent.
Really poor at their job.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Inconsistent.
Really poor at their job.
		
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The ref last night was awful 

He bought every single bit of play acting 

I mean grealish one was awful he held the wrong leg when he went down like a sack of spuds


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2020)

Well considering the level of injuries that’s a pretty impressive win - heck of a game for the young keeper , very very calm and didn’t seem phased at all. Can see him playing at the weekend as well


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## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Lanzini and Niasse are the only 2, none since 2017.
		
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It’s madness how no player has been done for simulation since.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No I’m not, I’m saying that’s the fact.

Was anything changed reference last night or with VVD? No, so it’s irrelevant whether we believe they were right or wrong when it comes to what actually happened.

I believe we all wished we had Officials that got every single decision correct, but we also know that’ll never happen.

Sadly we have to accept they get decisions right and wrong, hope the ones they recognise or the powers that be recognise (not your biased supporter) they got wrong they learn from or if the case may be, they change the laws if needed.
		
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Thats the current massive problem though.

They are changing rules or at least interpretations of them, or FIFA/UEFA are issuing directives to work alongside VAR and its making it worse!!!!!

The handball rule is well worse, rewards someone who can find an opponents arm from a yard away instead of someone who can bend it in the top corner.

They are also NOT learning anything. You have confidence in them if you like, I'm losing all of it, and wont just accept the so-called "Facts" of a decision. How can they be facts when they are for subjective decisions?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			My sister got married at Terry Venables' small hotel in Spain, was there a few nights and had quite a few beers with him, we had this same conversation. The Fa/Uefa/Insert footballing body here is run by absolute self serving clowns that have never played the game before. They don't care. In turn none of the ex pro's want anything to do with it. Then you have referee's that have never played the game before, that are "supported" and follow procedures that come from the governing body, who have no idea about the game. No ex pro's want to be referee's, why would they be?

Look at Cricket, Rugby etc. Governing bodies and rules officials that have played the game before. Only the people in the governing bodies aided by the rules officials could turn VAR (which should have been a slam dunk) into what it is now, an absolute farce.




I too think he was right, but the refs aren't capable of being any better. They haven't played the game before, they get no good support from the powers that be. It takes a very "special" type of person to become a ref.
		
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Bang on.

We are the generation that have inherited the football that Sepp Blatter wanted, A non-contact sport with tackling virtually banned. I think he influenced law-makers and committees with appointments of certain refs. Most refs judge a foul all based on whether someone hits the deck or not. Its a race to hit the deck now. Centre halves and full backs waiting for contact out by the touch line and no problems with risking hitting the deck and leaving the ball available, as 90% of the time they will get a decision.

I stopped watching the World cup in South Africa as it was rife, and sadly an Englishman was one of the worst culpirits - Joe Cole. He actually rode a tackle once and went on and scored!!! Thats one of the reasons I wouldnt have Grealish for free, would rather have Foden any day of the week. A proper player who gives and takes, moves the ball quick and makes good angles for keeping the game going rather than inviting contact (and in turn fouls), just to win free kicks. Carragher was right the other night, he's more like Hazard tha Gazza - a free kick collector, although at least when Hazard did stay on his feet, he was unplayable.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats the current massive problem though.

They are changing rules or at least interpretations of them, or FIFA/UEFA are issuing directives to work alongside VAR and its making it worse!!!!!

The handball rule is well worse, rewards someone who can find an opponents arm from a yard away instead of someone who can bend it in the top corner.

They are also NOT learning anything. You have confidence in them if you like, I'm losing all of it, and wont just accept the so-called "Facts" of a decision. How can they be facts when they are for subjective decisions?
		
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Were have I said I have confidence in them? The “fact” or ”reality” if you want is that we are 10 games into a season and it isn’t going to change overnight or just because we the fans don’t like it.

I’d bin VAR tomorrow and have every game reassessed afterwards and give retrospective punishments both to players and teams.

Money runs the games now, very few in authority care about the fans.

Said it before and I’ll say it again if you don’t start taking points off teams nothing will change.

Referees are way below standard, but putting all the blame on them, as some are, is ridiculous.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Were have I said I have confidence in them? The “fact” or ”reality” if you want is that we are 10 games into a season and it isn’t going to change overnight or just because we the fans don’t like it.

I’d bin VAR tomorrow and have every game reassessed afterwards and give retrospective punishments both to players and teams.

Money runs the games now, very few in authority care about the fans.

Said it before and I’ll say it again if you don’t start taking points off teams nothing will change.

Referees are way below standard, but putting all the blame on them, as some are, is ridiculous.
		
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Your quoting more "facts" than Rafa!

I'm not putting all the blame on refs, as a good deal of it is the so-called structure they work under.

1. FIFA/UEFA imposing European style "standards" of refereeing on us. Giving fouls  for slight contact, not being able to take a clean ball with studs showing, handballs being given with no reaction times for defenders. 

2. The FA for listening to them. 

3. Mike Reilly not letting refs look at the monitors next season.

4. VAR refs being even more inconsistent than what they were before VAR. The consistency should have been better with VAR.

5. Kevin Friend still being in a job - stealing a living for over 10 years.

We need  a re-set in football for what is a foul and what isnt and it needs to be at all the professional levels. A foul should be enough for you to have to have to hit the deck, or at least to be seriously impeded. I want to see refs tell players to get up and get on with it 10 times a game, until they learn.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2020)

How come there are no real issues with VAR in the CL games ?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How come there are no real issues with VAR in the CL games ?
		
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That said Sterling should have had a pen, there.

Late edit - And porto should have had one.

Can I retract that like, Phil, had a hockey moment.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			That said Sterling should have had a pen, there.

Late edit - And porto should have had one.

Can I retract that like, Phil, had a hockey moment.

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What about Edison nothing on the ball and just took the man out.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How come there are no real issues with VAR in the CL games ?
		
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Seems the refs in the CL are letting a lot more go than they used to .
It’s the other way around now with PL refs blowing for everything if someone hits the deck screaming.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			What about Edison nothing on the ball and just took the man out.
		
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That was the Porto one I was on about.


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## sunshine (Dec 2, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Not really, I was there and it's one that sticks in my head. I can tell you it was a foul, Jarvis tried to stay up, tripped and scuffed the shot.  Here's The post match analysis after:

Speaking as a pundit for Sky Sports, Gary Neville was equally as bemused at Jarvis’ honesty, saying: “He should have gone down. Well done, your team haven’t won a game. You can either be an angel and do what Matt Jarvis did and get a pat on the back off his nan when he goes home tonight, or he can win his team a penalty. The referee won’t give it if you don’t go down. Sam [Allardyce] said it, if you don’t go down you don’t get a penalty. It’s a foul. I suppose in some ways people can say ‘It’s disappointing to hear you say that Gary’ -- well then be disappointed, because ultimately that’s the game.”

The game is F****d, pundits making excuses. Inept referee's that are scared to use common sense. The FA should have stamped on this ages ago, but they didn't and now it's just the game. I hate it.


I think sunshine is referring to this: "the beautiful game"

View attachment 33806

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Some very good points here.

Ultimately, common sense has left the game. There is so much nit-picking, whining and cheating that all sense of perspective has been lost: refs have been backed into a corner and like a cornered animal, make erratic decisions due to panic.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2020)

sunshine said:



			Some very good points here.

Ultimately, common sense has left the game. There is so much nit-picking, whining and cheating that all sense of perspective has been lost: refs have been backed into a corner and like a cornered animal, make erratic decisions due to panic.
		
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I think some of the bad decisions are coming from their concentration being broken by a constant stream of chatter from the VAR and Lino’s microphones in their ear.
It must have an effect similar to a conversation on the phone in a car handsfree.
They have messed the laws ( interpretation) of them to much and it’s very open for different opinions.imo.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2020)

Inspiring story https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54985652


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Inspiring story https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54985652

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Brilliant that.
But talking about football ( on here anyway) is not always good for you.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Brilliant that.
But talking about football ( on here anyway) is not always good for you.

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Harder still when you support Fulham


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2020)

Fred as bright as Pepe it seems lol


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			Fred as bright as Pepe it seems lol
		
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WOW how is that yellow lol


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2020)

since when can the ref give a yellow card after a red card review too?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How come there are no real issues with VAR in the CL games ?
		
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I would like to humbly retract this statement 😲🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

How did Fred escape a red card ?!?!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			since when can the ref give a yellow card after a red card review too?
		
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He looks like a rabbit in the headlights.
That’s red all day long.


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He looks like a rabbit in the headlights.
That’s red all day long.
		
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makes you wonder how he got the CL final last year!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			makes you wonder how he got the CL final last year!
		
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He should know that’s a red.
Or have they changed the rules on head butting again?

The foul on Mane was red yesterday clear through.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			since when can the ref give a yellow card after a red card review too?
		
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He’s still in charge no matter what VAR says!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He should know that’s a red.
Or have they changed the rules on head butting again?

The foul on Mane was red yesterday clear through.
		
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Mane wasn’t a clear red - he was a clear distance away from the goal with players able to come and cover. It was cynical but it wasn’t a clear red


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mane wasn’t a clear red - he was a clear distance away from the goal with players able to come and cover. It was cynical but it wasn’t a clear red
		
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I don’t agree .
The defenders were never getting to him.
He didn’t get the ball and took him out that’s red.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2020)

Neymar is absolutely horrible, so frustrating when he has so much talent.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Neymar is absolutely horrible, so frustrating when he has so much talent.
		
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PSG are orrible.

As much as seeing United going out would be good for me, as I'd also expect the other way around for most United fans for us, the sooner PSG go out the happier I'll be. They are the biggest set of cheats in Europe, even worse than Barca, Real and the normal Portuguese.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			PSG are orrible.

As much as seeing United going out would be for me, as I'd also expect the other way around for most United fans for us, the sooner PSG go out the happier I'll be. They are the biggest set of cheats in Europe, even worse than Barce, Real and the normal Portuguese.
		
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It’s been allowed to happen though.
The ref can’t even see a headbut.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			PSG are orrible.

As much as seeing United going out would be for me, as I'd also expect the other way around for most United fans for us, the sooner PSG go out the happier I'll be. They are the biggest set of cheats in Europe, even worse than Barce, Real and the normal Portuguese.
		
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The problem is they get to the point were frustration takes over either one of there’s will get sent off or they’ll get a Utd player sent off with a dive.

I understand what Scholes means when he says he’s enjoying the match having a bit of needle to it, but I think if the Ref loses control it becomes a joke and good football takes a back seat.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Neymar is absolutely horrible, so frustrating when he has so much talent.
		
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Talented yep - still think overrated, awful attitude and work rate , strolls around the pitch , unwilling to do the dirty work , happy to leave a foot in and constantly throwing himself to the floor.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2020)

An air on inevitability about that red card. Fred isn't good enough at this level


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2020)

perfect hat trick for Olivier Giroud


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## Orikoru (Dec 2, 2020)

Do they not review red cards in the champions league? That was never a foul from Fred in a million years. Great tackle and he's been carded. Surely they should have reviewed and cancelled it?


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Do they not review red cards in the champions league? That was never a foul from Fred in a million years. Great tackle and he's been carded. Surely they should have reviewed and cancelled it?
		
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they were just correcting their error for not sending him off in the first half lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Do they not review red cards in the champions league? That was never a foul from Fred in a million years. Great tackle and he's been carded. Surely they should have reviewed and cancelled it?
		
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It was a second yellow not a straight red 

And it’s prob evened up things after he got away with it earlier


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Do they not review red cards in the champions league? That was never a foul from Fred in a million years. Great tackle and he's been carded. Surely they should have reviewed and cancelled it?
		
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VAR is only used when it’s a 2nd Yellow if they think it should be upgraded to straight Red, if not, they have no say on it.
Edit: Same in PL I believe.


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## Orikoru (Dec 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a second yellow not a straight red

And it’s prob evened up things after he got away with it earlier
		
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He's still left the field of play for a perfectly good tackle. I don't think 'evening things up' is meant to be in the ref's handbook is it? It was a clear and obvious error.


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## Orikoru (Dec 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			VAR is only used when it’s a 2nd Yellow if they think it should be upgraded to straight Red, if not, they have no say on it.
Edit: Same in PL I believe.
		
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That's ridiculous! United are down to ten and potentially out of the game for a perfectly good tackle!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He's still left the field of play for a perfectly good tackle. I don't think 'evening things up' is meant to be in the ref's handbook is it? It was a clear and obvious error.
		
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Utd’s only option will be to appeal the 2nd Yellow and get the card rescinded.


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			perfect hat trick for Olivier Giroud
		
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make that 4


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He's still left the field of play for a perfectly good tackle. I don't think 'evening things up' is meant to be in the ref's handbook is it? It was a clear and obvious error.
		
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Doesn’t matter - the VAR doesn’t get involved in yellow cards

Maybe have a quick watch of his headbutt and then maybe it’s justice at the end of the day


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That's ridiculous! United are down to ten and potentially out of the game for a perfectly good tackle!
		
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probably best you watch the headbutt he got a yellow for not a red in the first half before you feel too sorry for them


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## Orikoru (Dec 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Doesn’t matter - the VAR doesn’t get involved in yellow cards
		
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There was a red card though as well, I saw it. Two yellows make a red you know. 

If a team goes down to ten men due to a ref's mistake, VAR should intervene - why would it matter if it's a straight red or two yellows? Absolutely daft. (I aim that at the authorities, if that is how they decide it, not you Phil.)


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## Old Skier (Dec 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			probably best you watch the headbutt he got a yellow for not a red in the first half before you feel too sorry for them
		
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That wasnt a head butt, that was a childish movement of the head but deserving of everything he got and possibly more but I wish they would also yellow card the other player for play acting.


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			That wasnt a head butt, that was a childish movement of the head but deserving of everything he got and possibly more but I wish they would also yellow card the other player for play acting.
		
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not a headbutt out on the town on friday night for sure, but a headbutt by the way its described in football 

they just dont care about the play acting, time and time and time again.........


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## Junior (Dec 2, 2020)

Everyone saw the red coming apart from solskjaer.   He should have subbed him.  Really bad management


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			There was a red card though as well, I saw it. Two yellows make a red you know.

If a team goes down to ten men due to a ref's mistake, VAR should intervene - why would it matter if it's a straight red or two yellows? Absolutely daft. (I aim that at the authorities, if that is how they decide it, not you Phil.)
		
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From the beginning they’ve never got involved in Yellows apart from the scenario I mentioned. Yellow cards are the remit of the Ref.

That’s the problem of only introducing VAR for some stuff.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a second yellow not a straight red

And it’s prob evened up things after he got away with it earlier
		
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That's still poor refereeing, sending off someone because you didnt have the guts to do it first time, it compounds the mistake not excuses it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			That's still poor refereeing, sending off someone because you didnt have the guts to do it first time, it compounds the mistake not excuses it.
		
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Absolutely shocking refereeing - no doubt about that at all - but I lose sympathy for Fred when he shouldn’t have been on the pitch at that point because of his headbutt


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Absolutely shocking refereeing - no doubt about that at all - but I lose sympathy for Fred when he shouldn’t have been on the pitch at that point because of his headbutt
		
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I haven't seen it, was it a proper headbutt or was it one of those where its handbags and he leads with the head,hardly touches him and the other fella makes a meal of it? 

I did see the Ander Herrera one though, good to see he hasn't lost his snidey streak.😄


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## Old Skier (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I haven't seen it, was it a proper headbutt or was it one of those where its handbags and he leads with the head,hardly touches him and the other fella makes a meal of it?

I did see the Ander Herrera one though, good to see he hasn't lost his snidey streak.😄
		
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Handbags head butt where both should get a yellow.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I haven't seen it, was it a proper headbutt or was it one of those where its handbags and he leads with the head,hardly touches him and the other fella makes a meal of it?

I did see the Ander Herrera one though, good to see he hasn't lost his snidey streak.😄
		
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The same as the Pepe one - lean in with the head and a slight headbutt motion , player falls to the ground - red card for Fred for the headbutt motion and the heads actually coming together and yellow card for the diving idiot


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## Slime (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I haven't seen it, was it a proper headbutt or was it one of those where its handbags and he leads with the head,hardly touches him and the other fella makes a meal of it?

I did see the Ander Herrera one though, good to see he hasn't lost his snidey streak.😄
		
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It was a handbags one.
Barely touched the fella, if he even did, but the bloke went down like a snipers' victim with a bullet in his back.

Oh, and Neymar should have been sent off.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2020)

Slime said:



			It was a handbags one.
Barely touched the fella, if he even did, but the bloke went down like a snipers' victim with a bullet in his back.

Oh, and Neymar should have been sent off.
		
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Thought so, good to see Herrera teaching his PSG team mates the ultimate shithousery tricks he used whilst at Yernited😉

Unless it's a proper headbutt I think it should only be a yellow card.

What did Neymar do?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The same as the Pepe one - lean in with the head and a slight headbutt motion , player falls to the ground - red card for Fred for the headbutt motion and the heads actually coming together and yellow card for the diving idiot
		
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They're not red cards. 

This is why the game is where it is today. Poor decision after poor decision given now becomes the standard.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			They're not red cards.

This is why the game is where it is today. Poor decision after poor decision given now becomes the standard.
		
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Slime said:



			It was a handbags one.
Barely touched the fella, if he even did, but the bloke went down like a snipers' victim with a bullet in his back.

Oh, and Neymar should have been sent off.
		
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By the letter of the law he made contact with the other players head using his own head in a head butting motion - it’s a red card all day long regardless of the level of contact or how pathetic it is - it’s a red card by the absolute rules of the game


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## Old Skier (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Thought so, good to see Herrera teaching his PSG team mates the ultimate shithousery tricks he used whilst at Yernited😉

Unless it's a proper headbutt I think it should only be a yellow card.

What did Neymar do?
		
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Attend


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## Old Skier (Dec 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			By the letter of the law he made contact with the other players head using his own head in a head butting motion - it’s a red card all day long regardless of the level of contact or how pathetic it is - it’s a red card by the absolute rules of the game
		
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Don’t disagree, but what are the rules of the game now. From these antics to off side and handball nobody actually knows apart from some guy sat in a warm studio a couple of hundred miles away who shouts heads or tails.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



*By the letter of the law* he made contact with the other players head using his own head in a head butting motion - it’s a red card all day long regardless of the level of contact or how pathetic it is - it’s a red card by the absolute rules of the game
		
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There'd be no game if every letter of the law was adhered to.

Its a sport. It has rules but come on do we really need to be so strict? Sport, football particularly, has many variables within the game. It also has context to it that needs to be considered.

Just because there's contact doesn't make it serious foulplay. Again, the word "contact" gets banded about to justify every poor decision.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Attend
		
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Same could be said for £85m man Maguire 😁😁


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			There'd be no game if every letter of the law was adhered to.

Its a sport. It has rules but come on do we really need to be so strict? Sport, football particularly, has many variables within the game. It also has context to it that needs to be considered.

Just because there's contact doesn't make it serious foulplay. Again, the word "contact" gets banded about to justify every poor decision.
		
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There was a rubgy ref many years ago who had a spell as being lauded as the worlds ref. I remember watching a game in a pub once and a bloke nearby groaned when he saw it was him in charge. 'He will kill the game. knows every law, doesn't understand the game'. He was right, the game was awful, stop start all the time. 

Totally agree with what you said.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There was a rubgy ref many years ago who had a spell as being lauded as the worlds ref. I remember watching a game in a pub once and a bloke nearby groaned when he saw it was him in charge. 'He will kill the game. knows every law, doesn't understand the game'. He was right, the game was awful, stop start all the time.

Totally agree with what you said.
		
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Media/pundits/ex players have a lot to be guilty of. These, collectively, over the years have been setting the agenda about contact and how this is a pen and thats  a pen because there's been contact etc.

On the other hand, if players don't go down they don't get the pen. When was the last time we've seen pens given for fouls where the player hasn't hit the deck? I genuinely can't remember.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

Quite a few pundits having a go at Olllie this morning for not taking Fred off at half time. Bottom line PSG were always having Fred in there sights. Any challenges and the broken ankle hold was always gonna be favourite response.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			There'd be no game if every letter of the law was adhered to.

Its a sport. It has rules but come on do we really need to be so strict? Sport, football particularly, has many variables within the game. It also has context to it that needs to be considered.

Just because there's contact doesn't make it serious foulplay. Again, the word "contact" gets banded about to justify every poor decision.
		
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I’m not disagreeing with but the first thing you need is consistency - what Fred did last night is no different to Pepe or indeed any other player who has gone head to head with a player , it’s a clear red card regardless of the level of contact - you just can’t do that in football , there is no halfway measure there , it’s clear another player can’t make deliberate contact with another players head with any part of the body.

Yes when looking at fouls etc context needs to be looked but not in this case - it was a clear red card


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Media/pundits/ex players have a lot to be guilty of. These, collectively, over the years have been setting the agenda about contact and how this is a pen and thats  a pen because there's been contact etc.

On the other hand, if players don't go down they don't get the pen. When was the last time we've seen pens given for fouls where the player hasn't hit the deck? I genuinely can't remember.
		
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It needs both to get together and sort this out. You are right, it is totally wrong for a ref to ignore fouls purely because the  player doesn't do a swan dive. It pushed players down a particular path but sadly they have taken it to an extreme. Now a player feels they have to do this, the ref doesn't know if they are being conned or not. They need a gathering, draw a line and start again.


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## 4LEX (Dec 3, 2020)

Solskjær: "If Marquinhos had bigger studs on he’d have been offside. It’s tight in games like these."


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It needs both to get together and sort this out. You are right, it is totally wrong for a ref to ignore fouls purely because the  player doesn't do a swan dive. It pushed players down a particular path but sadly they have taken it to an extreme. Now a player feels they have to do this, the ref doesn't know if they are being conned or not. They need a gathering, draw a line and start again.
		
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I dont think they were pushed down this path, just slightly nudged, but then done a triple salco, with Pike, as a result.

Agree with the rest though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Media/pundits/ex players have a lot to be guilty of. These, collectively, over the years have been setting the agenda about contact and how this is a pen and thats  a pen because there's been contact etc.

On the other hand, if players don't go down they don't get the pen. When was the last time we've seen pens given for fouls where the player hasn't hit the deck? I genuinely can't remember.
		
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You’ve watched enough football in your life Stu so here’s a genuine question:
Do you believe it’s easy to spot a foul with minimum contact every single time, anywhere on the pitch?


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## BiMGuy (Dec 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’ve watched enough football in your life Stu so here’s a genuine question:
Do you believe it’s easy to spot a foul with minimum contact every single time, anywhere on the pitch?
		
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It's impossible. Which is why players go down. If they stay on thier feet they won't get the decisions. Like the Pepe red for headbutting. Would anyone have noticed if the Leeds player hadn't of made a meal of it? Regardless, there is absolutely no place in football for that sort of thing and it's should be a straight red. I would make it a longer ban too.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			It's impossible. Which is why players go down. If they stay on thier feet they won't get the decisions. Like the Pepe red for headbutting. Would anyone have noticed if the Leeds player hadn't of made a meal of it? Regardless, there is absolutely no place in football for that sort of thing and it's should be a straight red. I would make it a longer ban too.
		
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Should they get all the decisions though! The game has gone soft for me, it’s a full on contact sport and the 50/50 tackle is almost lost as it’s interpreted as a foul, honest challenges are non-existent as any slight contact is deemed as a foul and gives a player a “green light” to go down to ensure the Ref sees it.


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## Slime (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Thought so, good to see Herrera teaching his PSG team mates the ultimate shithousery tricks he used whilst at Yernited😉

Unless it's a proper headbutt I think it should only be a yellow card.
*
What did Neymar do?*

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He was just being Neymar, surely that's enough!


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## 4LEX (Dec 3, 2020)

Amazing after winning in Paris and thrashing RB, Utd now find themselves in a cup final to qualify. Means no rest for key players and City at home afterwards. Ole will have to field his strongest team 3 times in one week to try and save his skin again.

PSG are a horrible side though Mbappe aside.


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## fundy (Dec 3, 2020)

turns out all we needed was the roar of the crowd and Lacazettes a world beater


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## Old Skier (Dec 3, 2020)

Well the masks and no chanting didn’t last long


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			turns out all we needed was the roar of the crowd and Lacazettes a world beater 

Click to expand...

I thought it was the blue shirt....

On a serious note, why?


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## fundy (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought it was the blue shirt....

On a serious note, why?
		
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i guess the answer is money, utterly hate it, wear the home shirt for every home game ffs


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’ve watched enough football in your life Stu so here’s a genuine question:
Do you believe it’s easy to spot a foul with minimum contact every single time, anywhere on the pitch?
		
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You see here's another pet hate of mine, minimum  contact. Its a contact sport, impossible to play it without. We are now down a winding road giving fouls and cards for minimum contact, just caught him etc.

Just because there's minimum co tact it doesn't mean its a foul.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			i guess the answer is money, utterly hate it, wear the home shirt for every home game ffs
		
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He suits blue🤭🤭


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## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You see here's another pet hate of mine, minimum  contact. Its a contact sport, impossible to play it without. We are now down a winding road giving fouls and cards for minimum contact, just caught him etc.

Just because there's minimum co tact it doesn't mean its a foul.
		
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Also if it's not a foul doesn't mean it's a dive either .. can just be a coming together


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Should they get all the decisions though! The game has gone soft for me, it’s a full on contact sport and the 50/50 tackle is almost lost as it’s interpreted as a foul, honest challenges are non-existent as any slight contact is deemed as a foul and gives a player a “green light” to go down to ensure the Ref sees it.
		
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Thats where the burden of proof has to change though.

A ref should only be giving fouls if he sees a foul, whereas nowadays I think they give a foul if one player hits the floor, and think it must have been a foul and unless I was sure there was no contact I'm going to give one.

A singular ref cant do it though, the PGMOL, UEFA,FIFA,FA head of refs have to change as a whole.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You see here's another pet hate of mine, minimum  contact. Its a contact sport, impossible to play it without. We are now down a winding road giving fouls and cards for minimum contact, just caught him etc.

Just because there's minimum co tact it doesn't mean its a foul.
		
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Exactly, been giving this quite a bit of thought lately and imo it’s now ingrained in the game, whether that’s due to financial rewards, the win at any cost, bad refereeing, the media or all the above I don’t know.

I do know it’s not the game I grew up with, players still wanting to win, putting in hard fast tackles, both given and taken, it’s quite depressing were the game is today.

Maybe we’re just old and those kids, teenagers and the under 30’s don’t see it the same way and just view us as old miserable sods out of touch with the modern game.



Liverbirdie said:



			Thats where the burden of proof has to change though.

A ref should only be giving fouls if he sees a foul, whereas nowadays I think they give a foul if one player hits the floor, and think it must have been a foul and unless I was sure there was no contact I'm going to give one.

A singular ref cant do it though, the PGMOL, UEFA,FIFA,FA head of refs have to change as a whole.
		
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Absolutely, but as above I don’t think it should be just down to Refs to try and sort it out.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Exactly, been giving this quite a bit of thought lately and imo it’s now ingrained in the game, whether that’s due to financial rewards, the win at any cost, bad refereeing, the media or all the above I don’t know.

I do know it’s not the game I grew up with, players still wanting to win, putting in hard fast tackles, both given and taken, it’s quite depressing were the game is today.

Maybe we’re just old and those kids, teenagers and the under 30’s don’t see it the same way and just view us as old miserable sods out of touch with the modern game.


Absolutely, but as above I don’t think it should be just down to Refs to try and sort it out.
		
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Agreed, it needs to come from the administrators, clubs, media, fans rule makers, refs and more, but mainly refs and the "various FA's".


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Agreed, it needs to come from the administrators, clubs, media, fans rule makers, refs and more, but mainly refs and the "various FA's".
		
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With what help is another bug bear of mine, using the last Derby as an example and only mentioning 2 incidents, not the only or most obvious ones, but 2 similar.

Keans goal and the shirt pulling before he scored, Richarliason having his shirt pulled when he hit the post, both incidents clearly seen on TV, neither picked up by Officials or VAR, is that because they‘ve genuinely not seen them or seen and ignored or because TV has camera angles not available to VAR, whatever the reason it needs sorting, is it the drastic messures, so many appeals per team per half or the old, human error accept it as part of the game.

Whatever it is it needs addressing.

Edit: Other discussion points/incidents are available from the Derby, but prefer to ignore them.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			With what help is another bug bear of mine, using the last Derby as an example and only mentioning 2 incidents, not the only or most obvious ones, but 2 similar.

Keans goal and the shirt pulling before he scored, Richarliason having his shirt pulled when he hit the post, both incidents clearly seen on TV, neither picked up by Officials or VAR, is that because they‘ve genuinely not seen them or seen and ignored or because TV has camera angles not available to VAR, whatever the reason it needs sorting, is it the drastic messures, so many appeals per team per half or the old, human error accept it as part of the game.

Whatever it is it needs addressing.

Edit: Other discussion points/incidents are available from the Derby, but prefer to ignore them.

Click to expand...

Correct on the shirt pulls, maybe they should have to wear boxing gloves, that'd sort it!!

Imagine how many handballs we'd have then though.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			With what help is another bug bear of mine, using the last Derby as an example and only mentioning 2 incidents, not the only or most obvious ones, but 2 similar.

Keans goal and the shirt pulling before he scored, Richarliason having his shirt pulled when he hit the post, both incidents clearly seen on TV, neither picked up by Officials or VAR, is that because they‘ve genuinely not seen them or seen and ignored or because TV has camera angles not available to VAR, whatever the reason it needs sorting, is it the drastic messures, so many appeals per team per half or the old, human error accept it as part of the game.

Whatever it is it needs addressing.

Edit: Other discussion points/incidents are available from the Derby, but prefer to ignore them.

Click to expand...

Going back to "by the letter of the law", there'd be 15 pens per game if shirt pulling was penalised.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			With what help is another bug bear of mine, using the last Derby as an example and only mentioning 2 incidents, not the only or most obvious ones, but 2 similar.

Keans goal and the shirt pulling before he scored, Richarliason having his shirt pulled when he hit the post, both incidents clearly seen on TV, neither picked up by Officials or VAR, is that because they‘ve genuinely not seen them or seen and ignored or because TV has camera angles not available to VAR, whatever the reason it needs sorting, is it the drastic messures, so many appeals per team per half or the old, human error accept it as part of the game.

Whatever it is it needs addressing.

Edit: Other discussion points/incidents are available from the Derby, but prefer to ignore them.

Click to expand...

Was it two or three seasons ago when refs were told to give pens for shirt pulling .
They gave a few for a couple of weeks then stopped.
I belive they ignore them.
Nobody is convincing me that VAR can’t see shirt pulling.
It carries on because refs don’t give it if they did and carried on giving them it would stop .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Going back to "by the letter of the law", there'd be 15 pens per game if shirt pulling was penalised.
		
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And........Maybe it would be chaos initially until players stopped doing it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Was it two or three seasons ago when refs were told to give pens for shirt pulling .
They gave a few for a couple of weeks then stopped.
I belive they ignore them.
Nobody is convincing me that VAR can’t see shirt pulling.
It carries on because refs don’t give it if they did and carried on giving them it would stop .
		
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Again though, it has been stated that Sky/TV at some games have more cameras and angles available to them than the VAR Official.

Some of the shirt pulling is sly and hidden, add the fact the game is so quick at times you’d need to stop the game every few minutes while the VAR Official goes back and checks if they’ve missed anything.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Was it two or three seasons ago when refs were told to give pens for shirt pulling .
They gave a few for a couple of weeks then stopped.
I belive they ignore them.
Nobody is convincing me that VAR can’t see shirt pulling.
It carries on because refs don’t give it if they did and carried on giving them it would stop .
		
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Last world cup they enforced this at corners. First couple of rounds of games the penalties were flying around. After that the holding and shirt pulling stopped. Hugely disappointed the PL didn't continue with it.

Ignoring things like this doesn't help the cause of refs or VAR.


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## Old Skier (Dec 4, 2020)

More officials we have the worse it gets.  Cheating players with officials now accepting it because pulling and pushing, shirt pulling, “professional fouls” (where did that come from) and now standing on the ball and not withdrawing from a free kick. Games gone mad, back to three officials controlling the game and get rid of VAR, how much money is that costing.

Old fashioned, yes, but once upon a time it worked.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Again though, it has been stated that Sky/TV at some games have more cameras and angles available to them than the VAR Official.

Some of the shirt pulling is sly and hidden, add the fact the game is so quick at times you’d need to stop the game every few minutes while the VAR Official goes back and checks if they’ve missed anything.
		
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If you go in the changing rooms ant tell every team you are going to give pens for shirt pulling .
They won’t have to give many to stop it.
The players will adapt.
As for the VAR cameras if they don’t see it fair enough ,but they don’t give blatant ones now.
So the culture of the refs must change with the players.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 4, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			More officials we have the worse it gets.  Cheating players with officials now accepting it because pulling and pushing, shirt pulling, “professional fouls” (where did that come from) and now standing on the ball and not withdrawing from a free kick. Games gone mad, back to three officials controlling the game and get rid of VAR, how much money is that costing.

Old fashioned, yes, but once upon a time it worked.
		
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Again, they ballsed up the "must retreat" thing as they said you MUST book them also, so refs didnt always do it. You also had to move it the 10 yards forward, and not a preferential amount, as ometime syou got too close to the goal for free kicks, with most takers probably wanting an ideal or 23-25 yards, rather than 18-20.

They should make it the following:-

A booking is an option, especially if one a dangerous break, or if persistently done by a player, or the whole team.
The fouled team can advance it by anything between 0-10 yards, but less if they want, or if they want to take a quick free kick.

Covers all options.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you go in the changing rooms ant tell every team you are going to give pens for shirt pulling .
They won’t have to give many to stop it.
The players will adapt.
As for the VAR cameras if they don’t see it fair enough ,but they don’t give blatant ones now.
So the culture of the refs must change with the players.
		
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Prior to every season for the last few years every PL Club is visited by the PGMOL and rule changes or adaptians as well as problems from the previous season are discussed, the idea being Clubs and everyone involved know exactly were they stand.

Managers are also invited to attend Referee sessions during the season, obviously this isn’t enough going by what happens, but surely if the Clubs directed the players to stop doing it you wouldn’t need the Refs to visit changing rooms and from that if one is penalised for doing it they’d face the wrath of the manager far more than worrying about a Yellow card.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Prior to every season for the last few years every PL Club is visited by the PGMOL and rule changes or adaptians as well as problems from the previous season are discussed, the idea being Clubs and everyone involved know exactly were they stand.

Managers are also invited to attend Referee sessions during the season, obviously this isn’t enough going by what happens, but surely if the Clubs directed the players to stop doing it you wouldn’t need the Refs to visit changing rooms and from that if one is penalised for doing it they’d face the wrath of the manager far more than worrying about a Yellow card.
		
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Yes but as our previous discussion the refs don’t enforce the rules.
Players will always push the boundaries if they get away with it.
But almost all the rule interpretations only last a few weeks then it’s back to normal.

The one that always annoys me is in the first 10 minutes you can kick lumps out of the opponent’s with very little chance of a booking but after that time it’s a yellow.
So you can be booked for an identical challenge that someone else didn’t get booked for.
If it’s a yellow it shouldn’t matter what minute in the game it is.
Players need to warm up in the game ,but some are very naughty but get away with it.
It’s all just very inconsistent.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but as our previous discussion the refs don’t enforce the rules.
Players will always push the boundaries if they get away with it.
But almost all the rule interpretations only last a few weeks then it’s back to normal.

The one that always annoys me is in the first 10 minutes you can kick lumps out of the opponent’s with very little chance of a booking but after that time it’s a yellow.
So you can be booked for an identical challenge that someone else didn’t get booked for.
If it’s a yellow it shouldn’t matter what minute in the game it is.
Players need to warm up in the game ,but some are very naughty but get away with it.
It’s all just very inconsistent.
		
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As much as I’m trying to put both sides across, I agree our Referees are of sub-standard and we need to see a drastic improvement, however, even in the example you give that annoys you, You want the Ref to go in hard from minute one while at the same time excusing the players behaviour as “very naughty” these are professionals at the top of the game not children, they should not behaving that way either.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			As much as I’m trying to put both sides across, I agree our Referees are of sub-standard and we need to see a drastic improvement, however, even in the example you give that annoys you, You want the Ref to go in hard from minute one while at the same time excusing the players behaviour as “very naughty” these are professionals at the top of the game not children, they should not behaving that way either.
		
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I am sorry but you keep saying I am excusing the players .!!!
You are wrong I am not excusing them at all there are bad tackles that should be yellow that are excused by the ref not me.
Have you ever played football , if so you would know what “very naughty “means.
Players are cheats , liars and some just plain nasty.
But sub standard refs let them get away with things that they shouldn’t.

Can you show me where I am excusing the players!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am sorry but you keep saying I am excusing the players .!!!
You are wrong I am not excusing them at all there are bad tackles that should be yellow that are excused by the ref not me.
Have you ever played football , if so you would know what “very naughty “means.
Players are cheats , liars and some just plain nasty.
But sub standard refs let them get away with things that they shouldn’t.

Can you show me where I am excusing the players!
		
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You’re excuseing the players by having the first step to them changing their behaviour being the responsibility of the Referee.

I quote “there are bad tackles that should be yellow that are excused by the ref not me” If the player didn’t make the bad tackle he wouldn’t need excuseing by anyone!

Start with the source of the problem and make the job of the Referee less problematic, just like the shirt pulls, if the players didn’t do it the Referee doesn’t need to look for it.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re excuseing the players by having the first step to them changing their behaviour being the responsibility of the Referee.

I quote “there are bad tackles that should be yellow that are excused by the ref not me” If the player didn’t make the bad tackle he wouldn’t need excuseing by anyone!

Start with the source of the problem and make the job of the Referee less problematic, just like the shirt pulls, if the players didn’t do it the Referee doesn’t need to look for it.
		
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Sorry the refs in charge not the players .
 they will always try and get away with what he lets them.
That’s my stance ,you don’t agree that’s your opinion.

If you really think players are going to stop making bad tackles your living in cloud cuckoo land be it intentional or accidental it will always happen.
If a player dosnt make a tackle his manager will want to know why he didn’t.
But one thing is constant ,the ref is in charge. Allegedly!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry the refs in charge not the players .
they will always try and get away with what he lets them.
That’s my stance ,you don’t agree that’s your opinion.

If you really think players are going to stop making bad tackles your living in cloud cuckoo land be it intentional or accidental it will always happen.
If a player dosnt make a tackle his manager will want to know why he didn’t.
But one thing is constant ,the ref is in charge. Allegedly!
		
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Making a bad tackle, mis-timed tackle, clumsy challenge, etc can absolutely happen to anyone as no one is perfect, but that is a different scenario to your previous post were you said players deliberately kick lumps out of each other in the first 10 minutes as the players need to warm up!

If a player makes a genuine effort to tackle etc and mess’s up, I 100% agree it is the Refs job to pull them up.

If a player deliberately fouls a player then again I agree 100% it is the Refs job to pull them.

The difference in the 2 is that the player deliberately committing a foul has a choice and can avoid the Ref getting involved.

But as far as you are concerned whatever the player does, that’s ok because it’s the Refs job to see it!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Making a bad tackle, mis-timed tackle, clumsy challenge, etc can absolutely happen to anyone as no one is perfect, but that is a different scenario to your previous post were you said players deliberately kick lumps out of each other in the first 10 minutes as the players need to warm up!

If a player makes a genuine effort to tackle etc and mess’s up, I 100% agree it is the Refs job to pull them up.

If a player deliberately fouls a player then again I agree 100% it is the Refs job to pull them.

The difference in the 2 is that the player deliberately committing a foul has a choice and can avoid the Ref getting involved.

But as far as you are concerned whatever the player does, that’s ok because it’s the Refs job to see it!
		
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You want to show me where I said DELIBARETLY.
You are reading things that I have not said!!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			You want to show me where I said DELIBARETLY.
You are reading things that I have not said!!!
		
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Post No 3,019, You are describing footballers doing deliberate actions in the first 10 minutes.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Post No 3,019, You are describing footballers doing deliberate actions in the first 10 minutes.

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You are making things up to defend your position.
I will ask you again show me where I said DELIBARETLY.??


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			You are making things up to defend your position.
I will ask you again show me where I said DELIBARETLY.??
		
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I’m making things up I’m not the one making up scenarios to blame everything on the Refs!

I don’t think we’ll see eye to eye on this one, have a nice weekend.🍻


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m making things up I’m not the one making up scenarios to blame everything on the Refs!

I don’t think we’ll see eye to eye on this one, have a nice weekend.🍻
		
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That’s a nice way of saying you can’t back up your accusation. same to you.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2020)

Further proof that the footballs administrators are not in touch with the real world https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55193287

Perhaps they need to listen to supporters https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55160134


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a nice way of saying you can’t back up your accusation. same to you.
		
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Nope, just the feeling of my head banging against a brick wall.


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## 4LEX (Dec 5, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Further proof that the footballs administrators are not in touch with the real world https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55193287

Perhaps they need to listen to supporters https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55160134

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Like I said, let's get the crowds back and see what happens when some of these ridiculous decisions keep happening. It won't take much for things to turn sour.

VAR is killing the game. It's being used far too much, it takes power away from the refs so they get in a comfort zone and the VAR officials haven't got a clue. They can hide in Stockley and don't have to account for anything. If something needs to be replayed more than thrice it's not a clear and obvious mistake. The replays should be capped at three times or then the ref decision stands.

It's insane replaying the same thing 30 times for someone to not know either way. The same mistakes are being made, just down the chain. The difference is you can forgive a ref on the pitch for making the odd bad call, you can't forgive someone stopping the game and looking at the replay with 10 angles, slow motion and repeats.

Tomorrow and Sunday has a great set of games but you just know come Sunday night, VAR will be the biggest talking point over the football.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Nope, just the feeling of my head banging against a brick wall.

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That’s not good for you .
Makes you see things that are not there.


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## Orikoru (Dec 5, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Like I said, let's get the crowds back and see what happens when some of these ridiculous decisions keep happening. It won't take much for things to turn sour.

VAR is killing the game. It's being used far too much, it takes power away from the refs so they get in a comfort zone and the VAR officials haven't got a clue. They can hide in Stockley and don't have to account for anything. If something needs to be replayed more than thrice it's not a clear and obvious mistake. The replays should be capped at three times or then the ref decision stands.

It's insane replaying the same thing 30 times for someone to not know either way. The same mistakes are being made, just down the chain. The difference is you can forgive a ref on the pitch for making the odd bad call, you can't forgive someone stopping the game and looking at the replay with 10 angles, slow motion and repeats.

Tomorrow and Sunday has a great set of games but you just know come Sunday night, VAR will be the biggest talking point over the football.
		
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Agree - it was meant to help the refs, "they need help" everyone said. Instead of helping them it undermines them to the point they're not reffing the game anymore they're basically giving what they're told to give. That's not helping them.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2020)

Is Iwobi even a footballer?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is Iwobi even a footballer?
		
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No. Season and a half in and I'm still waiting to see what he brings to the team. Jeez, he was an appalling, panic buy. We fixated on Zaha, couldn't get him and then someone thought Iwobi would be equivalent 🙄😱.

Not sure we have made a worse buy. We will make a huge loss on him as I can't see any improvement happening or what any one else would see in him.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2020)

The phone in on Radio Merseyside was fun, my favourite line was "Ronnie, they've ruined my weekend again" 🤣🤣🤣


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2020)

Have to laugh when Pep asks for 5 subs in the prem league, when after 85 mins and 2-0 v Fulham and hes used none at all


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## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2020)

How long before we see Bruno?


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## SteveW86 (Dec 5, 2020)

Where are the lines for that one?


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## Kellfire (Dec 5, 2020)

Think the linesman has had a mare there.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Think the linesman has had a mare there.
		
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How could var ever prove if it's in or out? Camera angle is all over the shop


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## SteveW86 (Dec 5, 2020)

We will have a camera to look down the touch lines at every game from now on


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## Papas1982 (Dec 5, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			How could var ever prove if it's in or out? Camera angle is all over the shop
		
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Not sure they’re meant to have a camera angle for it tbh.
Was out imo. Moyes will be fun at full time.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Not sure they’re meant to have a camera angle for it tbh.
Was out imo. Moyes will be fun at full time.
		
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I couldn't tell from the angle , such a great goal


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## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2020)

Marshel getting injured done united a huge favour .. so much better now


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2020)

A different side in the 2nd half.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2020)

Slime said:



			A different side in the 2nd half.
		
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Only since mata came on really 

We wasted the first half


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



*Only since mata came on really*

We wasted the first half
		
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That was simply superb, what a ball.
Bruno's had a huge impact, too.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2020)

Slime said:



			That was simply superb, what a ball.
		
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I know right! Mata, pogba and Bruno have been a joy


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I know right! Mata, *pogba* and Bruno have been a joy
		
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Pogba's still got a lot to do to convince me he's worth keeping at the club.
But he has scored a real pearler today.


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2020)

Zonal marking .......................................... just why?


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2020)

2 points from the top. 
Who'd have thought?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2020)

Slime said:



			2 points from the top. 
Who'd have thought?
		
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Mental ain't it

Shows what happens when you let the fans back ... Lol back to normal


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2020)

West Ham could have been out of sight by half time if theyd taken their chances, completely different game when Fernandes and Rashford came on

Cant be long till the big sides start sniffing round Fernandes


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2020)

Great finish from Pogba but like a few others I'm not convinced by him. Doesn't do enough when the team doesn't have the ball and can go missing when the team struggles like in the first half. When he is in the mood he is very, very good but not in the mood often enough. Would he thrive in a big club elsewhere on the continent or is he now in that mode of play and will turn it on in fits and starts and if so who would take him on?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2020)

No doubt Dignity Dave will blame the ref/Lino, if I was him I’d be blaming Soucek for turning his back on Pogba’s strike.  Boils my piss when I see players do that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No doubt Dignity Dave will blame the ref/Lino, if I was him I’d be blaming Soucek for turning his back on Pogba’s strike.  Boils my piss when I see players do that.
		
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Not interested in Moyes being a success, but that lino didn’t even look! That’s another example of the poor quality of Officials you normally like to remind us about.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Not interested in Moyes being a success, but that lino didn’t even look! That’s another example of the poor quality of Officials you normally like to remind us about.

Click to expand...


hows the lino supposed to look back down the line at the same time as looking across the pitch to see if the runners offside?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Not interested in Moyes being a success, but that lino didn’t even look! That’s another example of the poor quality of Officials you normally like to remind us about.

Click to expand...

I’ve decided to stop berating the officials, they’re only human after all 😁


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## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			hows the lino supposed to look back down the line at the same time as looking across the pitch to see if the runners offside?
		
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Need 1 eye in Huyton and the other in New Brighton 😆


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			hows the lino supposed to look back down the line at the same time as looking across the pitch to see if the runners offside?
		
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You mean do his job? Haven’t they always meant to do that?


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Need 1 eye in Huyton and the other in New Brighton 😆
		
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Pretty sure I always wanted use of both my eyes in Huyton lol


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You mean do his job? Haven’t they always meant to do that?
		
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you mean when refs werent good enough so we had to bring in VAR?  not sure why how it used to be has any bearing on the fact you cant look in 2 places at once


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			West Ham could have been out of sight by half time if theyd taken their chances, completely different game when Fernandes and Rashford came on

*Cant be long till the big sides start sniffing round Fernandes* 

Click to expand...

He's already at a big club, maybe the biggest.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			hows the lino supposed to look back down the line at the same time as looking across the pitch to see if the runners offside?
		
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Surely as soon as the ball has been kicked he no longer needs to be looking across the pitch for the offside and can watch the ball to see if it goes out of play. I'm making no judgement on whether or not the ball went out or not but from the moment it's been kicked the player can no longer be offside so the assistant doesn't need to be looking across the pitch and can focus on the flight of the ball.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 5, 2020)

Slime said:



			He's already at a big club, maybe the biggest. 

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When did he sign for Real Madrid? Is he off in January?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			you mean when refs werent good enough so we had to bring in VAR?  not sure why how it used to be has any bearing on the fact you cant look in 2 places at once
		
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No, VAR was never introduced to cover the sidelines. And tbh aren’t linesman always been expected to look in 2 places at once to judge any offside.

He’s 40yds+ from the ball on the half way line or level with the last man, he should be watching both, at his level he’ll know whether a player is offside or not, he should also consider the flight of the ball, instead he turned his back and ran down the line.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2020)

an unfit Kevin Friend reffing Chelsea v Leeds, VARs gonna be busy lol


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## Fade and Die (Dec 5, 2020)

Should have been out of sight first half...We were the better side for 60 minutes and scored one but they were the better side for 30 minutes and scored three. Says it all really.

This is Moyes fault though...He should have sent them out in leopard print kits 2nd half and we would have had them for dinner.😄


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			hows the lino supposed to look back down the line at the same time as looking across the pitch to see if the runners offside?
		
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Marty feldman did.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Need 1 eye in Huyton and the other in New Brighton 😆
		
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One in Tocky, the other in crocky.


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## Orikoru (Dec 5, 2020)

That was an astonishing miss from Werner. Not only does he stop Giroud's effort that was potentially going in off the post, he then fails to score from one yard! One for the all time worst miss video montages, that.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			West Ham could have been out of sight by half time if theyd taken their chances, completely different game when Fernandes and Rashford came on

Cant be long till the big sides start sniffing round Fernandes 

Click to expand...

That Haller stumble was the moment ..should have buried 

Bowen missed a good chance and fornals hitting post and heading wide

Should have been out of sight but hey I'll take the positives that whilst we lost (rightly so after their last 30 mins) we looked better than against villa and Sheffield utd and Fulham 

Can't comment on in or out debate as couldn't even tell myself .. where on earth would var stand? It's impossible to tell surely


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That was an astonishing miss from Werner. Not only does he stop Giroud's effort that was potentially going in off the post, he then fails to score from one yard! One for the all time worst miss video montages, that. 

Click to expand...

thats what happens when they get my FF captain burden lol


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## Orikoru (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			thats what happens when they get my FF captain burden lol
		
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Got Werner in my team also so I had mixed feelings on that one!


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## Fade and Die (Dec 5, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			That Haller stumble was the moment ..should have buried

Bowen missed a good chance and fornals hitting post and heading wide

Should have been out of sight but hey I'll take the positives that whilst we lost (rightly so after their last 30 mins) we looked better than against villa and Sheffield utd and Fulham

Can't comment on in or out debate as couldn't even tell myself .. where on earth would var stand? It's impossible to tell surely
		
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Our poor finishing and the quality of their subs was the difference today. Can’t complain though we played better today than we did against Fulham and Villa.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Our poor finishing and the quality of their subs was the difference today. Can’t complain though we played better today than we did against Fulham and Villa.
		
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Fully agreed , poor finishing first half. If you don't take your chances you pay 

Leeds next... Tough game but we had a 3 match unbeaten run.. which is so rare.. more postives than negatives


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## BiMGuy (Dec 5, 2020)

Being a Leeds fan is speeding up the ageing process 😜


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## Tashyboy (Dec 5, 2020)

Just seen the Pogba goal on you tube. You are never gonna get a decision where the ball is out of play if the linesman is not looking for it. He has had a shocker there.


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Just seen the Pogba goal on you tube. You are never gonna get a decision where the ball is out of play if the linesman is not looking for it. He has had a shocker there.
		
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But what a strike.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2020)

There is the lack of consistency with VAR 

Chilwell has just kicked the player in tbe box in the same way Robertson did - yet nothing ? Is it because the player didnt go to ground ?


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2020)

Willian be about 10th choice in midfield for Chelsea currently, we gave him 3 yrs and 250k a week lol


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## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is the lack of consistency with VAR

Chilwell has just kicked the player in tbe box in the same way Robertson did - yet nothing ? Is it because the player didnt go to ground ?
		
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Yes. The same ref aswell


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2020)

Koeman cant have long left at Barca


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## GreiginFife (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			Koeman cant have long left at Barca
		
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Just said that to a mate. Was the cheap option and not the right appointment.
But of he keeps his job he has compromising pictures of board members. 
Never seen a Barca side so disjointed and his insistence at persevering with Griezman is baffling, he is utter wash. 
Same for Trincao, stealing a living.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is the lack of consistency with VAR

Chilwell has just kicked the player in tbe box in the same way Robertson did - yet nothing ? Is it because the player didnt go to ground ?
		
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This is exactly why you can't blame players for going down. Anywhere else on the pitch and that is a free kick.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			Just said that to a mate. Was the cheap option and not the right appointment.
But of he keeps his job he has compromising pictures of board members.
Never seen a Barca side so disjointed and his insistence at persevering with Griezman is baffling, he is utter wash.
Same for Trincao, stealing a living.
		
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only chance he has is staying until the presidency vote in January, not a chance any incoming president keeps him

mutterings that PSG are preparing to do a deal for Messi cant help either


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## 4LEX (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			Koeman cant have long left at Barca
		
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They were shambolic! Barcelona have been as badly managed and run as Utd in the last 4 years, the difference is they had Messi towing the line and papering over the cracks. Now he's going through the motions the true scale of the rot is evident.

Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann cost £360m combined in fees and have literally done nothing. Throw in wages and you're looking at nearly half a billion.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 5, 2020)

4LEX said:



			They were shambolic! Barcelona have been as badly managed and run as Utd in the last 4 years, the difference is they had Messi towing the line and papering over the cracks. Now he's going through the motions the true scale of the rot is evident.

Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann cost £360m combined in fees and have literally done nothing. Throw in wages and you're looking at nearly half a billion.
		
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Be interesting watching Barca implode through the summer. Messi Gone, presidential elections, manager situation. No money, at this rate its hard to see that they will qualify for the champs league.


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## 4LEX (Dec 5, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Should have been out of sight first half...We were the better side for 60 minutes and scored one but they were the better side for 30 minutes and scored three. Says it all really.

This is Moyes fault though...He should have sent them out in leopard print kits 2nd half and we would have had them for dinner.😄
		
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One of the most bizzare games I've seen.

West Ham should've been 3/4 up after 60 mins. Missed two one on ones, Pogba nearly booting someone in the head in the box too for an obvious penalty. The first Utd goal was clearly out of play. You can't kick a ball with side spin from point A to point B over such a distance without it needing space to curve.

How embarrassing is Pogba though. A total joke for the whole season, scores one decent finish and gives it the big one. I'll laugh my head off when he runs his contract down and signs for Real Madrid on a free and we don't have to see the parasite in England again.

Compare that to Rashford who was just different class when when came on, tore West Ham apart. Utd shoud've binned Pogba and Martial in the summer and landed Sancho. A front three of Rashford - Greenwood - Sancho would be brilliant and only get better. 

I hope RB and City give them what's coming


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## 4LEX (Dec 5, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Be interesting watching Barca implode through the summer. Messi Gone, presidential elections, manager situation. No money, at this rate its hard to see that they will qualify for the champs league.
		
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I think they'll bring in Xavi as manager shortly and sign a proper striker in January. Messi back onside and finish Top 3. La Liga is an average league this season. It looks like Atletico will grind it out.

Until then we can laugh at a side containing £400m of attackers AND Messi yet still having Martin Braithwaite upfront


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			hows the lino supposed to look back down the line at the same time as looking across the pitch to see if the runners offside?
		
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They don’t flag for offside now???
He has one job ,is the ball in or out and he didn’t do it!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2020)

No wonder Sterling is top of the penalties won league.
Bit surprised no Liverpool players in the top four .

The Leeds non penalty shows why players go down.


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2020)

4LEX said:



			West Ham should've been 3/4 up after 60 mins. Missed two one on ones, *Pogba nearly booting someone in the head in the box too for an obvious penalty. The first Utd goal was clearly out of play.* You can't kick a ball with side spin from point A to point B over such a distance without it needing space to curve.
How embarrassing is Pogba though. A total joke for the whole season, scores one decent finish and gives it the big one. I'll laugh my head off when he runs his contract down and signs for Real Madrid on a free and we don't have to see the parasite in England again.
		
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Certainly neither of these occurred in the game I watched.
Pogba's boot wasn't near the player's head, certainly not near enough to even consider it a penalty.
Clearly out of play to you and David Moyes, obviously.
The amount a ball curves over any prescribed distance depends on the amount of sidespin. A lot of sidespin = a large curve, a small amount of sidespin = a slight curve. I couldn't measure the amount of sidespin, could you?
Oh, and Pogba had a good game and his 'decent' finish was actually a superb finish.
Why do you hate United so much?


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## 4LEX (Dec 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			Certainly neither of these occurred in the game I watched.
Pogba's boot wasn't near the player's head, certainly not near enough to even consider it a penalty.
Clearly out of play to you and David Moyes, obviously.
The amount a ball curves over any prescribed distance depends on the amount of sidespin. A lot of sidespin = a large curve, a small amount of sidespin = a slight curve. I couldn't measure the amount of sidespin, could you?
Oh, and Pogba had a good game and his 'decent' finish was actually a superb finish.
Why do you hate United so much?
		
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It was dangerous play and about 2 inches from the strikers head! If that had been a striker doing the same it would've been a foul. It was needless when a header would've sufficed. 

The ball was clearly out but with no proof it couldn't be overturned. Very similar to a high draw in golf. The linesman got it wrong, one of those strokes of luck that turned the game on it's head.

Pogba didn't have a good game, he was woeful bar that one moment of magic. I think I covered more ground around Tesco tonight than he did on the pitch. Rashford literally did more in 30 minutes than Pogba has all season. Even Mata came on and made more passes and key passes. I don't hate Utd, I'm a total neutral when it comes to the PL, I just enjoy watching sides who play good football with likable players who give 100%. I find a number of your players very easy to dislike, while Ole is an Alan Partridge like parody of Ferguson. All that's missing is the Castrol GTX jacket


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## Billysboots (Dec 6, 2020)

4LEX said:



*
The ball was clearly out but with no proof* it couldn't be overturned. Very similar to a high draw in golf. The linesman got it wrong, one of those strokes of luck that turned the game on it's head.
		
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A contradiction if ever I saw one. If the ball was so clearly out of play why would any proof be needed? I watched the game, and then the highlights last night, and from the camera angle it was absolutely impossible to say one way or another. 

What I will say is that the incident was yet another abuse of VAR, which is supposed to be deployed to review a clear and obvious error. This was neither.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			A contradiction if ever I saw one. If the ball was so clearly out of play why would any proof be needed? I watched the game, and then the highlights last night, and from the camera angle it was absolutely impossible to say one way or another.

What I will say is that the incident was yet another abuse of VAR, which is supposed to be deployed to review a clear and obvious error. This was neither.
		
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VAR can’t review it as it is not part of their remit.🤷‍♂️

It wasn’t so much as was it in or out of play, it’s more the fact the lino turned his back on it and ran down the line, he should of watched the flight of the ball and let VAR review an offside decision if required.

That way there’d be no discussion as he would of made a call on what he’d seen.


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## Billysboots (Dec 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			VAR can’t review it as it is not part of their remit.🤷‍♂️
		
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But they did.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			But they did.
		
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On 5 Live last night they said VAR had looked at the build up and couldn’t determine if the ball had or had not crossed the line completely as there is no side line technology, therefore they couldn’t over turn the goal.

So yes, apologies from the fact they did look at it.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			VAR can’t review it as it is not part of their remit.🤷‍♂️

It wasn’t so much as was it in or out of play, it’s more the fact the lino turned his back on it and ran down the line, he should of watched the flight of the ball and let VAR review an offside decision if required.

That way there’d be no discussion as he would of made a call on what he’d seen.
		
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https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...he-premier-league-all-your-questions-answered

Can a goal be disallowed for an offence in the build-up?
Offside and fouls by an attacking player will be checked and an offence may see the goal ruled out and a free kick awarded to the defending team. The VAR can also check for ball out of play.

Although how on earth would they even check on last night. Even replies weren't conclusive

Right call given if they can't clearly see one way or other


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...he-premier-league-all-your-questions-answered

Can a goal be disallowed for an offence in the build-up?
Offside and fouls by an attacking player will be checked and an offence may see the goal ruled out and a free kick awarded to the defending team. The VAR can also check for ball out of play.

Although how on earth would they even check on last night. Even replies weren't conclusive

Right call given if they can't clearly see one way or other
		
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9625785/var-premier-league-rules-2019-20-video-referee/amp/


The technology cannot be used to advise on:

yellow cards, including second yellows
potential fouls in ordinary open play
to decide on corner or throw-in awards.
Do you see why it is confusing?

A ball in or out of play is quite easy, hawkeye, Tennis etc. But the cost to do it for sidelines in football would be too much and that’s why the lino should of done his job.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9625785/var-premier-league-rules-2019-20-video-referee/amp/


The technology cannot be used to advise on:

yellow cards, including second yellows
potential fouls in ordinary open play
to decide on corner or throw-in awards.
Do you see why it is confusing?

A ball in or out of play is quite easy, hawkeye, Tennis etc. But the cost to do it for sidelines in football would be too much and that’s why the lino should of done his job.
		
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Whilst I agree that's confusing that bit is to state which way a throw in or corner goes rather than in or out of play 

Hawkeye may work but would it at that height? It was impossible to tell 

Few west ham fans have been like Arthur left pitch to get ball for throw etc .. yes footballers the pillars of honestly and not appealing for something that's not there 

I couldn't tell at the time nor with replays 

Good goal aswell


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Whilst I agree that's confusing that bit is to state which way a throw in or corner goes rather than in or out of play

Hawkeye may work but would it at that height? It was impossible to tell

Few west ham fans have been like Arthur left pitch to get ball for throw etc .. yes footballers the pillars of honestly and not appealing for something that's not there

I couldn't tell at the time nor with replays

Good goal aswell
		
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Fantastic finish plus a great 15 minutes by Utd, I totally agree the replays were pretty much useless, that’s why I mentioned the linesman from the beginning, he’s the only one that could of made a definitive decision and imo he’s responsible for the doubt.

People are looking to VAR and questioning it when, for me, this one is solely down to human error and nothing to do with VAR.


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## Billysboots (Dec 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9625785/var-premier-league-rules-2019-20-video-referee/amp/


The technology cannot be used to advise on:

yellow cards, including second yellows
potential fouls in ordinary open play
to decide on corner or throw-in awards.
Do you see why it is confusing?

A ball in or out of play is quite easy, hawkeye, Tennis etc. But the cost to do it for sidelines in football would be too much and that’s why the lino should of done his job.
		
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The authorities are over complicating a beautifully simple game, which is why so many fans hate VAR with a passion. And, it seems, many players feel the same.

I would far rather go back to the good old days when we just used to moan about poor decisions. Instead, we are moaning about the poor application of a poor system to review poor decisions, the net result being even more poor decisions and controversies.

It’s just becoming a total farce.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Fantastic finish plus a great 15 minutes by Utd, I totally agree the replays were pretty much useless, that’s why I mentioned the linesman from the beginning, he’s the only one that could of made a definitive decision and imo he’s responsible for the doubt.

People are looking to VAR and questioning it when, for me, this one is solely down to human error and nothing to do with VAR.
		
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Fantastic 15 mins of football 

Even if they chalked it off man United were starting to control the game 

Lino defo the problem ... But hey I don't know how anyone could call it properly the entire of the ball crossed entire of line in mid air


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 6, 2020)

I feel it is harsh to criticise the assistant referee/linesman. 

He was having to run along the line whilst looking across the pitch to be able to judge offside and other incidents. 

At the same time he is expected to judge if the ball has gone out of play when that ball is travelling at speed approximately 20 feet above his head and the ball does not hit the ground until it is comfortably in play.

Had it done so out of play it would be fair to be critical but as it was we are asking the linesman to have the faculties of a superhero.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I feel it is harsh to criticise the assistant referee/linesman. 

He was having to run along the line whilst looking across the pitch to be able to judge offside and other incidents. 

At the same time he is expected to judge if the ball has gone out of play when that ball is travelling at speed approximately 20 feet above his head and the ball does not hit the ground until it is comfortably in play.

Had it done so out of play it would be fair to be critical but as it was we are asking the linesman to have the faculties of a superhero.
		
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As others have said he doesn't need to look for offside etc ATM as that's where var will come in

Monitor the line if anything else missed var will spot


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## Tashyboy (Dec 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			VAR can’t review it as it is not part of their remit.🤷‍♂️

It wasn’t so much as was it in or out of play, it’s more the fact the lino turned his back on it and ran down the line, he should of watched the flight of the ball and let VAR review an offside decision if required.

That way there’d be no discussion as he would of made a call on what he’d seen.
		
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This is the correct and obvious answer. Yet still not acceptable to some.👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I feel it is harsh to criticise the assistant referee/linesman.

He was having to run along the line whilst looking across the pitch to be able to judge offside and other incidents.

At the same time he is expected to judge if the ball has gone out of play when that ball is travelling at speed approximately 20 feet above his head and the ball does not hit the ground until it is comfortably in play.

Had it done so out of play it would be fair to be critical but as it was we are asking the linesman to have the faculties of a superhero.
		
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Surely that’s what has been expected of linesmen since they were introduced to the game?

Every offside decision they are expected to be up with play and looking at both the last man and the ball constantly.

When the ball is played he should with a glance know if the player is offside or not, yesterday their was no close offside, Man Utd players were well onside.

His next job was to follow the ball, he didn’t, (watch the replays) he turns his back on the ball and sprints towards the West Ham goal, therefore forgetting to watch the flight of the ball.

Yes it may seem harsh, but they have less to do now he was the only one capable of making the correct decision.


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## Billysboots (Dec 6, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			This is the correct and obvious answer. Yet still not acceptable to some.👍
		
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I don’t think anyone can be certain, but it _appeared_ from a distance as though the linesman did track the first part of the ball flight prior to returning his attention to the pitch itself.

Bottom line is his eyes can’t be everywhere.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			As others have said he doesn't need to look for offside etc ATM as that's where var will come in

Monitor the line if anything else missed var will spot
		
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The instructions to assistant referees are still for them to assess offside and to watch for other offences in order to assist the ref.

Also, we are asking him to judge the flight of a ball relative to a line at ground level whilst that ball is some 20 feet or so above him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			The instructions to assistant referees are still for them to assess offside and to watch for other offences in order to assist the ref.

Also, we are asking him to judge the flight of a ball relative to a line at ground level whilst that ball is some 20 feet or so above him.
		
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This is nothing new, we also ask Rugby officials to do the same.

I’m a bit surprised knowing your history in the game that you seem to be so lenient towards him.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			This is nothing new, we also ask Rugby officials to do the same.

I’m a bit surprised knowing your history in the game that you seem to be so lenient towards him.
		
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I have no idea what happens in rugby as I am afraid that I have absolutely no interest in that game. 

Genuinely not having a dig at anyone on here but it does seem to me that those that get most vexed by decisions in VAR times tend to be those that get their football from the TV with its endless replays.

Those who, in non-lockdown times  watch live tend to be more accepting that officials, just like players  aren't infallible and occasionally make mistakes.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 6, 2020)

Kinda surprised no one has mentioned what has gone off at Millwall, or have they. A few folks I have spoken to have said that bending a knee has gone on long enough. 
Whats folks thoughts on this matter.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Kinda surprised no one has mentioned what has gone off at Millwall, or have they. A few folks I have spoken to have said that bending a knee has gone on long enough. 
Whats folks thoughts on this matter.
		
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It's political. So not allowed to debate


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## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2020)

Another farcical VAR interference this time in the West Brom/Palace game. 

Pereira will now miss 3 games for a yellow card offence.

At least they're consistent 🙄🙄


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I have no idea what happens in rugby as I am afraid that I have absolutely no interest in that game.

Genuinely not having a dig at anyone on here but it does seem to me that those that get most vexed by decisions in VAR times tend to be those that get their football from the TV with its endless replays.

Those who, in non-lockdown times  watch live tend to be more accepting that officials, just like players  aren't infallible and occasionally make mistakes.
		
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Funnily enough I find the opposite, those who have or do play or been involved in the game for a long time are far more accepting of human error and mistakes happen.

Then we have the difference in those that watch and go to PL only who are normally more vocal towards the Officials, understandibly though in my opinion as they only get on look at the decisions at the match once and are more emotionally invested at the time.

The opinions I do agree since the only option has been on TV is very divided, some can’t wait to highlight the bad decisions and see no positives in VAR.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 6, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I have no idea what happens in rugby as I am afraid that I have absolutely no interest in that game.

Genuinely not having a dig at anyone on here but it does seem to me that those that get most vexed by decisions in VAR times tend to be those that get their football from the TV with its endless replays.

Those who, in non-lockdown times  watch live tend to be more accepting that officials, just like players  aren't infallible and occasionally make mistakes.
		
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I think this is pretty fair. No one can say with certainty if the ball went out or not, the lino should have been watching but missed it. He made a mistake... So did Haller when he fell on his arse instead of side footing the ball into an open goal. It’s part of football. 
I would sack VAR off tomorrow as it’s killing the game as a live spectacle but then all the TV experts would be up in arms at 5mm offsides not given!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I think this is pretty fair. No one can say with certainty if the ball went out or not, the lino should have been watching but missed it. He made a mistake... So did Haller when he fell on his arse instead of side footing the ball into an open goal. It’s part of football.
I would sack VAR off tomorrow as it’s killing the game as a live spectacle but then all the *TV experts would be up in arms at 5mm offsides not give*n!
		
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Do we really need them? I wouldn't miss any of them tbh. 

Those who used to recite Andy Gray and co on  radio phone ins etc would be buggered though


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Do we really need them? I wouldn't miss any of them tbh. 

Those who used to recite Andy Gray and co on  radio phone ins etc would be buggered though
		
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Dunno about most but I watch football for the game and don't even bother watching what the "experts" say most.of the time


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## Slime (Dec 6, 2020)

4LEX said:



*It was dangerous play and about 2 inches from the strikers head! If that had been a striker doing the same it would've been a foul. It was needless when a header would've sufficed.*

The ball was clearly out but with no proof it couldn't be overturned. Very similar to a high draw in golf. The linesman got it wrong, one of those strokes of luck that turned the game on it's head.

Pogba didn't have a good game, he was woeful bar that one moment of magic. I think I covered more ground around Tesco tonight than he did on the pitch. Rashford literally did more in 30 minutes than Pogba has all season. Even Mata came on and made more passes and key passes. I don't hate Utd, I'm a total neutral when it comes to the PL, I just enjoy watching sides who play good football with likable players who give 100%. I find a number of your players very easy to dislike, while Ole is an Alan Partridge like parody of Ferguson. All that's missing is the Castrol GTX jacket 

Click to expand...

It was certainly more than two inches and he was facing the wrong way to head it away from the goal.
Pogba had a good game, I think most unbiased people would agree with that.
As I asked before, just out of curiosity, why do you hate United so much?


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## Slime (Dec 6, 2020)

Billysboots said:



*The authorities are over complicating a beautifully simple game*, which is why so many fans hate VAR with a passion. And, it seems, many players feel the same.

I would far rather go back to the good old days when we just used to moan about poor decisions. Instead, we are moaning about the poor application of a poor system to review poor decisions, the net result being even more poor decisions and controversies.

It’s just becoming a total farce.
		
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They certainly are and that is in part, a large part, due to players constantly cheating and, therefore, making the officials' job almost impossible.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			They certainly are and that is in part, a large part, due to players constantly cheating and, therefore, making the officials' job almost impossible.
		
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Yesterday a Leeds player got his foot kicked in the same way as Robertson the week before , he stayed on his feet  nothing was given - last week Welbeck threw himself to the ground after the same level of tackle - got the penalty .

Do you blame the players for going down when they know that the refs won’t give it If they stay on their feet


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## Fade and Die (Dec 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Do we really need them? I wouldn't miss any of them tbh.

Those who used to recite Andy Gray and co on  radio phone ins etc would be buggered though
		
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*We* don’t need them at all but the armchair “letter of the law” brigade do. And sadly they are more important to the PL than you or I.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			It was certainly more than two inches and he was facing the wrong way to head it away from the goal.
Pogba had a good game, I think most unbiased people would agree with that.
As I asked before, just out of curiosity, why do you hate United so much?
		
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Even with my Claret and Blue specs on I didn’t think it was a penalty, there was another incident though when the left back hand balled it right in front of the linesman (not in the area though) but the ref waived play on. Now if that was in the area it would have been a VAR penalty. Which highlights the ridiculousness of the current situation where the same incident can have 2 possible outcomes depending where it took place!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yesterday a Leeds player got his foot kicked in the same way as Robertson the week before , he stayed on his feet  nothing was given - last week Welbeck threw himself to the ground after the same level of tackle - got the penalty .

Do you blame the players for going down when they know that the refs won’t give it If they stay on their feet
		
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It’ll be interesting to see what Gallagher says on Sky tomorrow as he said Robertson’s was the correct decision.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 6, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Kinda surprised no one has mentioned what has gone off at Millwall, or have they. A few folks I have spoken to have said that bending a knee has gone on long enough.
Whats folks thoughts on this matter.
		
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Seems as though it wasn't just Millwall. Heard rumours (but nothing concrete) that it happened at several grounds. Colchester have issued a statement saying that it happened at our home game as well, although it appears that they were a very small minority and most got shut down by other fans around them.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’ll be interesting to see what Gallagher says on Sky tomorrow as he said Robertson’s was the correct decision.
		
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He's a paid mouth piece  for the PGMOL, pointless having him on.


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## Slime (Dec 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yesterday a Leeds player got his foot kicked in the same way as Robertson the week before , he stayed on his feet  nothing was given - last week Welbeck threw himself to the ground after the same level of tackle - got the penalty .

Do you blame the players for going down when they know that the refs won’t give it If they stay on their feet
		
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It's a case of they all go down or they all stay on their feet.
Ideally they'd all stay on their feet, reality dictates that this will never be the case.
So no, I don't blame players for going down ......................... but it's still a dive, therefore cheating.
I hate it when they do it, but understand why they do it.
Until they get regularly booked for diving it will never go away, sadly.


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## Kellfire (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's political. So not allowed to debate
		
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Racism is a social issue as well. Saying it’s political suggests that it’s a valid political opinion to not want to end systemic racism on black people, which of course it isn’t.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			It's a case of they all go down or they all stay on their feet.
Ideally they'd all stay on their feet, reality dictates that this will never be the case.
So no, I don't blame players for going down ......................... but it's still a dive, therefore cheating.
I hate it when they do it, but understand why they do it.
Until they get regularly booked for diving it will never go away, sadly.
		
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Players have been making meals of challenges for decades - a lot of times it’s done to ensure the referee gives the foul , that’s not cheating if a foul has been committed. 

It’s a dive when they has been no touch and the player is looking to gain an advantage 

Until the referee gives fouls for all challenges then players are going to ensure they get the free kick.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He's a paid mouth piece  for the PGMOL, pointless having him on.
		
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As far as you’re concerned they are all useless, at least if they stick to one person you can see if there is continuity or not.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			As far as you’re concerned they are all useless, at least if they stick to one person you can see if there is continuity or not.
		
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Not all. Just some. 

I think the way the tech is being used is a bigger issue though. We've seen incidents involving all clubs, not just my team, wrongly given. I'm hoping having fans back might just improve refs in a strange way. 

Football officiation is a mess.


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## Slime (Dec 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Players have been making meals of challenges for decades - a lot of times it’s done to ensure the referee gives the foul , that’s not cheating if a foul has been committed.

It’s a dive when they has been no touch and the player is looking to gain an advantage

Until the referee gives fouls for all challenges then players are going to ensure they get the free kick.
		
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I totally get where you're coming from, but in my opinion, if a touch is not enough to floor a player and that player makes a conscious decision to hit the deck, that's a dive. He wasn't brought down, he went down of his own volition.
As I said earlier, I understand why they do it, I just wish they wouldn't.
Also, not every touch is a foul but players are making it seem that way.


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Players have been making meals of challenges for decades - a lot of times it’s done to ensure the referee gives the foul , that’s not cheating if a foul has been committed.

It’s a dive when they has been no touch and the player is looking to gain an advantage

Until the referee gives fouls for all challenges then players are going to ensure they get the free kick.
		
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If the contact doesnt impede the player its not a foul, the ref doesnt need to be giving a foul for all challenges, this is a big part of the problem imo, most of the time all they are trying to prove is there any contact not "enough" contact when reviewing


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## BiMGuy (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's political. So not allowed to debate
		
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Nothing political about wanting an end to racism.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 6, 2020)

A player can be impeded without it forcing him to ground. 

Knocked slightly off balance, having to check his stride and thus slowed. In those types of incident the player has been disadvantaged i.e. impeded.

If he doesn't go to ground it is likely that no penalty or free kick is awarded. 

That can't be right.


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			A player can be impeded without it forcing him to ground.

Knocked slightly off balance, having to check his stride and thus slowed. In those types of incident the player has been disadvantaged i.e. impeded.

*If he doesn't go to ground it is likely that no penalty or free kick is awarded.*

That can't be right.
		
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Its not right but thats down to the refs and how it is officiated, no need for a player to then do a swan dive to "win" a free kick/penalty and then be praised for it


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Nothing political about wanting an end to racism.
		
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Whilst I agree the people who booed are claiming it's political reasons not racism .. so yes the discussion about what happened yesterday would be political ..


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## BiMGuy (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Whilst I agree the people who booed are claiming it's political reasons not racism .. so yes the discussion about what happened yesterday would be political ..
		
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Of course they were. Millwall fans are well know for their ability to debate difficult political issues tactfully.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Of course they were. Millwall fans are well know for their ability to debate difficult political issues tactfully.
		
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Anyone who booed yest should be ashamed of themsleves and banned for life. Imo


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			Its not right but thats down to the refs and how it is officiated, no need for a player to then do a swan dive to "win" a free kick/penalty and then be praised for it
		
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It's not so much that they get praised for doing it. 

Rather that they are criticised if they don't and their side are not awarded a penalty. 

In any event I have never been able to understand players being  congratulated when a penalty is awarded even if it is a most obvious award.

After all there is no guarantee that the penalty will be scored.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Anyone who booed yest should be ashamed of themsleves and banned for life. Imo
		
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100%


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

great tackle xhaka lol, oh were not playing rugby


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## AmandaJR (Dec 6, 2020)

Team in white plays team in red...both teams wear 1st strip - happy days!

Call me old fashioned but it just looks as it should (apart from Spurs backtoftontfronttoback neckline)!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Yes spuds! Head to head league at work. Against a big mouth gunner who refuses to put spurs players in his team

Hopefully going to smash him with that assist and goal in that move 😅


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2020)

Terrific goal from Son.
The lads world class for me seems to be getting better every game.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			great tackle xhaka lol, oh were not playing rugby
		
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Not as bad as Maddison’s earlier.
That really should be red  considering what you can get yellow for now.
That bad he missed .


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Terrific goal from Son.
The lads world class for me seems to be getting better every game.
		
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Certainly getting better and better under Jose 

Think Jose has added to spurs


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2020)

Brilliant finish but shocking defending - why didn’t anyone at least try and close him down


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Brilliant finish but shocking defending - why didn’t anyone at least try and close him down
		
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thats not what we do lol


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Certainly getting better and better under Jose

Think Jose has added to spurs
		
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Think Son would add to any team.
Jose plays Kane deeper and he’s very hard to pick up .
This is working wonders for Sons game .
So yes he has improved them.
Really good on the counter.


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

Wouldnt rush to overrate Spurs too much, theyre at home to a bottom 6 side carrying 4 or 5 here. Scored 2 good goals mind

Sad to watch, Xhaka seems to have lost pace, and he never had any to start with. How is he picked in a game like this ahead of Ceballos, Elneny, Maitlin Niles, Willock? And if hes slow, hed still give Holding a decent race  Lacazette intent on scrapping or diving not running into space yet again, Willian totally disinterested, jogging around, giving the ball away and counting his money all the way to the bank. Bellerin still looks not fit, still hasnt been taught how to complete a throw in properly. Aubam not in the game again so far either 

Cant get any worse can it? I guess a Partey or Gabriel injury (without tempting fate)
Broken record here, off to drown the sorrows (with Lemsip haha)


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

lol and theres the Partey injury


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2020)

Have Arsenal got worse since Arteta arrived ? First time seen them this season and why is Ozil not in the this team and Aubameyang just looks a shadow of himself


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have Arsenal got worse since Arteta arrived ? First time seen them this season and why is Ozil not in the this team and Aubameyang just looks a shadow of himself
		
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they havent got any better, just shades of the same old **** far too many overrated overpaid passengers, a squad they couldnt move anyone from in the summer yet most of them still being played ahead of the kids

ozils not in the side for political/financial reasons, that and hes largely been awful when he has played the last couple of years

clubs a proper proper mess


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## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2020)

Good half there. Son's goal absolutely world class. We seem happy to let Arsenal knock it about safe that they're not doing much with it. On the second goal I have to say unforgivable from Partey - if you've got an injury you don't just wander off the pitch!  You stay in position, go down in the centre circle, anything, you don't just wander off and leave them with no one in midfield. He's cost his team a goal there. Loved the Kane finish, always looks better rattling in off the crossbar doesn't it?


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## paddyc (Dec 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			Wouldnt rush to overrate Spurs too much, theyre at home to a bottom 6 side carrying 4 or 5 here. Scored 2 good goals mind

Sad to watch, Xhaka seems to have lost pace, and he never had any to start with. How is he picked in a game like this ahead of Ceballos, Elneny, Maitlin Niles, Willock? And if hes slow, hed still give Holding a decent race  Lacazette intent on scrapping or diving not running into space yet again, Willian totally disinterested, jogging around, giving the ball away and counting his money all the way to the bank. Bellerin still looks not fit, still hasnt been taught how to complete a throw in properly. Aubam not in the game again so far either 

Cant get any worse can it? I guess a Partey or Gabriel injury (without tempting fate)
Broken record here, off to drown the sorrows (with Lemsip haha)
		
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Can't really add anything to that except I hope u feel better soon mate.  You never know we might stage a miraculous comeback lol[/QUOTE]


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## AmandaJR (Dec 6, 2020)

Bellerin can't throw in properly because his shorts are under his armpits and restricting proper release!!

Make that Lemsip a double!


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

Everything good attacking wise has come from the left through Tierney, can see why weve been playing him as a centre half


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 6, 2020)

Why are the Arsenal players getting involved with Lo Celso and trying to get him off the pitch quicker when their physios are still treating Saka on the pitch? The substitution was completed and the game was still held up due to Saka's nosebleed.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 6, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Why are the Arsenal players getting involved with Lo Celso and trying to get him off the pitch quicker when their physios are still treating Saka on the pitch? The substitution was completed and the game was still held up due to Saka's nosebleed.
		
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At the time I'm not sure those involved were aware and when he stopped to pull his socks up to his crotch, just to walk off, it was bound to irritate...

BTW - he looks the spit of George Ford!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2020)

I was not overly interested in the Spurs game so I went and walked the dog. Came back and I've seen the last 20-25 minutes. All Arsenal but I don't think Lloris has got his gloves dirty. Have Arsenal had any chances in the second half? Spurs are clearly very well drilled but Arsenal look toothless.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2020)

Didn't think Arsenal were as bad as they have been in other games this season but Mourinho has got them organised, especially at the back and Son will always be a threat. I don't think they'll win the league but think they'll be top four


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## Jensen (Dec 6, 2020)

Here comes the Yid of doom, a fan who maybe stood next to too many fickle fans on the shelf 🙂🤣
Yes Jose deserves credit for making Spurs more resilient, difficult to beat and has created a togetherness. HOWEVER let’s not get carried away. I’m not wholly convinced by this smash and grab style.
When we need some guile and creativity who will we turn to ? N’dombele may influence, but it’s too early to say.
When we play so called poorer teams at home who sit back, what then, whose going to unlock them ?
When we play top, top quality teams, this formation will fail. Statistically teams who have more possession will score. When you sit back and invite pressure you will concede goals.
I get it that at times we will need to adopt this style, but not ALL the time. There is a time and a place.
I get it’s a results business, but sorry I don’t FULLY buy into this style.


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## Jensen (Dec 6, 2020)

Listening to Souness on Sky, he sounds like he stood on the Shelf too 👍
With Jamie Redknapp in agreement


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## Rlburnside (Dec 6, 2020)

Funniest moment this weekend Partey walking off leaving his teammates exposed and one of the Arsenal staff pushing him back on😂😂


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## 4LEX (Dec 6, 2020)

Jose doing Jose tings.

Done Arsenal like a kipper. Destroyed Utd, outsmarted Pep, did a job on Chelsea and now the same against Arsenal. Very impressive start and they probably should have another 4 points if you look at the Newcastle and West Ham games.

Spurs are perfect for Mourinho's world class ability as a coach - Underdogs, team of players who will run through brick walls for him (Bar Alli) and with a couple of world class forwards to win the points. Throw in Bale and the league being a weird one and they'll definitely get third, if not second bar serious injuries to Kane or Son.


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## USER1999 (Dec 6, 2020)

Arteta continuing to pick Willian is going to get him sacked eventually. Add in out of form senior players like Lacazette, and Xhaka, chuck in past its like Luiz, all of whom have been stinking the place up this season, and he can't say it won't be deserved. It's a shame, as I really do think he has promise, but misplaced loyalty is a bad idea. 
He should build for the future, not try to hedge his bets.

That said, I didn't see todays game, I was driving home. Sounds like I was lucky.


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Arteta continuing to pick Willian is going to get him sacked eventually. Add in out of form senior players like Lacazette, and Xhaka, chuck in past its like Luiz, all of whom have been stinking the place up this season, and he can't say it won't be deserved. It's a shame, as I really do think he has promise, but misplaced loyalty is a bad idea.
He should build for the future, not try to hedge his bets.

That said, I didn't see todays game, I was driving home. Sounds like I was lucky.
		
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if youre struggling to sleep later watch the 2nd half


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## USER1999 (Dec 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			if youre struggling to sleep later watch the 2nd half 

Click to expand...

Nah, might give it a miss.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Henderson get out of the refs face..... 

Not sure of the decision but don't get in the face 

Poor from the captain


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## Dando (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Henderson get out of the refs face..... 

Not sure of the decision but don't get in the face 

Poor from the captain
		
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All players do it!

Why wasn’t the wolves player booked for diving? 🤔


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

Dando said:



*All players do it!*

Why wasn’t the wolves player booked for diving? 🤔
		
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really hate this argument!!! doesnt make it big, clever or right, especially for mr squeaky clean

wolves player not booked because ref thought it was a pen, and cant use var for a yellow card


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			really hate this argument!!! doesnt make it big, clever or right, especially for mr squeaky clean
		
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And especially during covid times

I know their tested all time but doesn't set a good example ..

We cant sing chants at games but it's fine to get right up in the refs face and yell


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## Dando (Dec 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			really hate this argument!!! doesnt make it big, clever or right, especially for mr squeaky clean

wolves player not booked because ref thought it was a pen, and cant use var for a yellow card
		
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Whether you hate the argument or not it’s a fact that most players get in the refs face


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## 4LEX (Dec 6, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Arteta continuing to pick Willian is going to get him sacked eventually. Add in out of form senior players like Lacazette, and Xhaka, chuck in past its like Luiz, all of whom have been stinking the place up this season, and he can't say it won't be deserved. It's a shame, as I really do think he has promise, but misplaced loyalty is a bad idea.
He should build for the future, not try to hedge his bets.

That said, I didn't see todays game, I was driving home. Sounds like I was lucky.
		
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Your problem is the board, Edu and the lack of ambition/money. Arteta has done a decent job given the resources but you can't compete with the other top sides. Lampard and Ole have spent over £250m a piece and had better squads to build on. Shameful the board didn't pay off Ozil and have let him hang around making fun of the club on Twitter. Why would anyone put a shift in when someone at the club is earning four or five times them for doing nothing?

I think the keeper and defence looks decent, you just need a top CB alongside Gabriel. The midfield and attack are where it falls apart. Theres such a lack of quality it's staggering. Partey is potentially good, Saka loads of potential and Auba is top class, although giving a player past 30 such a big deal is questionable. Moving him to the wing because theres no one else has destroyed his confidence.

Lacazette, Pepe and Xhaka aren't going to get you anywhere near the Top 4. Still makes me laugh out loud Pepe cost north of 80m.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Henderson get out of the refs face.....

Not sure of the decision but don't get in the face

Poor from the captain
		
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Henderson was also correct!


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

Dando said:



			Whether you hate the argument or not it’s a fact that most players get in the refs face
		
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still doesnt make it right either and they should be booked, but the refs are too soft


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Henderson was also correct!
		
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Whilst this is true it's not right to get in the face

Can argue the point without getting that close or shouting 

Plus var made the ref correct the mistake not Henderson


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## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2020)

Jensen said:



			When we need some guile and creativity who will we turn to ? N’dombele may influence, but it’s too early to say. 
When we play so called poorer teams at home who sit back, what then, whose going to unlock them ?
		
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True, but we had that problem long before Mourinho arrived. We used to over-rely on Eriksen for everything.



*When we play top, top quality teams, this formation will fail*. Statistically teams who have more possession will score. When you sit back and invite pressure you will concede goals.
		
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Sorry, what teams are these? Liverpool are the only one left. Yes we might lose to Liverpool - oh well, a lot of teams do. The other 'top teams' we've already played and got results.



			I get it that at times we will need to adopt this style, but not ALL the time. There is a time and a place.
		
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We've played three supposed 'big teams' (Arsenal really don't qualify now but traditionally anyway) in a row, come away with 7 points and 0 conceded. I'm taking that all day long. I've seen too many pretty football but soft and pathetic defensively teams. We scored three lovely goals against West Ham then conceded three daft ones at the end. Give me the defensive resilience over that please.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			True, but we had that problem long before Mourinho arrived. We used to over-rely on Eriksen for everything.

Sorry, what teams are these? Liverpool are the only one left. Yes we might lose to Liverpool - oh well, a lot of teams do. The other 'top teams' we've already played and got results.

We've played three supposed 'big teams' (Arsenal really don't qualify now but traditionally anyway) in a row, come away with 7 points and 0 conceded. I'm taking that all day long. I've seen too many pretty football but soft and pathetic defensively teams. We scored three lovely goals against West Ham then conceded three daft ones at the end. Give me the defensive resilience over that please.
		
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Two daft and one worldy ...


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

How on earth is clive tyldesley getting work? He's awful


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2020)

Dando said:



			Whether you hate the argument or not it’s a fact that most players get in the refs face
		
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Well that’s another one for bad reffing in my book.
Tell the players anyone getting in the refs face will be booked .
Nobody else would put up with that at work.
Imagine doing that to a workmate you would be looking for a new job.


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## Dando (Dec 6, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well that’s another one for bad reffing in my book.
Tell the players anyone getting in the refs face will be booked .
Nobody else would put up with that at work.
Imagine doing that to a workmate you would be looking for a new job.
		
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It amazes me how much respect egg chasers have the referee compared to footballers


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2020)

Well that’s the second goal I have missed due to Amazon service buffering and then crashing 

The service tonight is awful - it’s a couple of mins behind the actual game , the picture is shocking 

Hope we aren’t on Prime again


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## Dando (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			How on earth is clive tyldesley getting work? He's awful
		
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That’s being generous


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			How on earth is clive tyldesley getting work? He's awful
		
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Take him over Martin Tyler every day


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that’s the second goal I have missed due to Amazon service buffering and then crashing

The service tonight is awful - it’s a couple of mins behind the actual game , the picture is shocking

Hope we aren’t on Prime again
		
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not sure if an option to you but its far better (and only a few secs behind live) through a pc than smart tv

ps, next on prime in 9 days


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Take him over Martin Tyler every day
		
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Must be a new generation out there 

Retire the old guard


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			not sure if an option to you but its far better (and only a few secs behind live) through a pc than smart tv

ps, next on prime in 9 days 

Click to expand...

yep just seen the match against Spurs is on 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

yeah it is better on the laptop but then football should be watched on the big Telly


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## Billysboots (Dec 6, 2020)

Dando said:



			It amazes me how much respect egg chasers have the referee compared to footballers
		
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I always remember watching one of the first rugby games I saw after the referees started wearing microphones. A player gave the ref a very minor bit of backchat in comparison to what Premier League officials put up with. The referee’s response?

“Two things. First, you only speak to me when asked to. Second, when you do speak to me, you call me Sir. Ten metres.”

Brilliant.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			yep just seen the match against Spurs is on 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

yeah it is better on the laptop but then football should be watched on the big Telly
		
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Been fine here on lg smart TV .. no buffering ..

My net only 77mb so hardly super fast


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2020)

Very impressive win tonight , the young GK looks superb and the front three look like they are finding their form. Fabinho as a CB is as good as any in the league right now. We really do need to get Gini to sign that new contract


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## IainP (Dec 6, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't think Arsenal were as bad as they have been in other games this season but Mourinho has got them organised, especially at the back ....
		
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He's a clever chap that Mourinho fella 😉😉😁


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## 4LEX (Dec 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Very impressive win tonight , the young GK looks superb and the front three look like they are finding their form. Fabinho as a CB is as good as any in the league right now. We really do need to get Gini to sign that new contract
		
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Agreed, Fabinho is different class. And you've got The Ox and Thiago to come back. Best full backs in Europe and the best front four in Europe too.....title only going one place.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Bugger bringing jota on lol

91 points
If he stayed on bench auto sub 98 points damn


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## 4LEX (Dec 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			It was certainly more than two inches and he was facing the wrong way to head it away from the goal.
Pogba had a good game, I think most unbiased people would agree with that.
As I asked before, just out of curiosity, why do you hate United so much?
		
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It was close enough to be reckless and we've seen fouls given for that. Players can actually head with the back/side of their head, it's fairly common. It looked an act of showboating from someone that doesn't care. No defender would be taught to raise his boots above head height in his own box! 

He did not have a good game. The goal was brilliant no doubt but he was lucky not to be hooked at half time. I looked at the player ratings and he got a 5-6 across most reviews, that's average, not good. Show me a rating there he got an 8-9? Do you reckon he'll start in Germany if he was so good? We both know the answer to that. And ditto against City.

I don't hate any football team, if anything I respect United more than any club given out of my friendship group, 4 have season tickets and I've seen a lot of games over the last 15 years. I've seen Utd lift two trophies in person and had a bloody good time. Also lived in Manchester but I do dislike the current side. It's worse than the Liverpool side under Benitez but at least they were well coached and gave their all. I wouldn't pay 1p to watch Pogba or Martial. 

I'll bet you £100 you won't finish in the Top 3. Serious bet. If you think you're going in the right direction, finished third last season, surely progress would be second? So Top 3 won't be an issue for you, just easy money


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## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			How on earth is clive tyldesley getting work? He's awful
		
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Miles better than Tyler and Matterface.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2020)

Brilliant performance from the unbearable's, gutted I wasn't 1 of the lucky 1500 to be there tonight.

Fans back in the ground makes a massive difference to watching it on the box.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Brilliant performance from the unbearable's, gutted I wasn't 1 of the lucky 1500 to be there tonight.

Fans back in the ground makes a massive difference to watching it on the box.
		
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1500? How comes not the 2000?


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## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I always remember watching one of the first rugby games I saw after the referees started wearing microphones. A player gave the ref a very minor bit of backchat in comparison to what Premier League officials put up with. The referee’s response?

“Two things. First, you only speak to me when asked to. Second, when you do speak to me, you call me Sir. Ten metres.”

Brilliant.
		
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Sorry but I disagree strongly. The players are adults not bloody schoolchildren. Imagine asking someone to call you sir with a straight face, dear me.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			1500? How comes not the 2000?
		
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75% for "normal" fans and 25% players, sponsors etc.

Just a point of order, I know at least 3 sponsors gave their allocation to local charities to give to people within the L postcode.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry but I disagree strongly. The players are adults not bloody schoolchildren. Imagine asking someone to call you sir with a straight face, dear me.
		
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Sign of respect. The refs in rugby are far more respected 

It's how it should be


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## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Sign of respect. The refs in rugby are far more respected

It's how it should be
		
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Respecting the referee is one thing but that's way over-the-top. I respect lots of people without being told to speak when spoken to and to address them as sir for goodness sake. When I play the referees we respect are the ones who talk to us like adults and explain their decisions. The ones who talk down to us and bark orders like that are the ones who don't get the respect I'm afraid.


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## Billysboots (Dec 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Respecting the referee is one thing but that's way over-the-top. I respect lots of people without being told to speak when spoken to and to address them as sir for goodness sake. When I play the referees we respect are the ones who talk to us like adults and explain their decisions. The ones who talk down to us and bark orders like that are the ones who don't get the respect I'm afraid.
		
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To be fair, I suspect there was more than a degree of the referee putting the player back in his box and firmly shutting the lid. That, and he was clearly making a point to the other 29 players on the pitch.

I never hear rugby players talk to referees with anything other than respect, the simple reason being they know full well they will be penalised for stepping out of line. Hence conversations like the one I quoted are rare, as they simply aren’t needed in the first place.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Respecting the referee is one thing but that's way over-the-top. I respect lots of people without being told to speak when spoken to and to address them as sir for goodness sake. When I play the referees we respect are the ones who talk to us like adults and explain their decisions. The ones who talk down to us and bark orders like that are the ones who don't get the respect I'm afraid.
		
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However what sport are the refs respected at the top level? The one where they the refs word is king and he is sir

The ref isn't there to make friends he is there to do a job.

Like Billy says .. that convo doesn't happen all time because the refs lay down the law and the players respect them 

Footballers don't respect the refs .


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Surely that’s what has been expected of linesmen since they were introduced to the game?

Every offside decision they are expected to be up with play and looking at both the last man and the ball constantly.

When the ball is played he should with a glance know if the player is offside or not, yesterday their was no close offside, Man Utd players were well onside.

His next job was to follow the ball, he didn’t, (watch the replays) he turns his back on the ball and sprints towards the West Ham goal, therefore forgetting to watch the flight of the ball.

Yes it may seem harsh, but they have less to do now he was the only one capable of making the correct decision.
		
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Surely the 4th official could have said something as it whistled straight over his head in the technical area.


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## 4LEX (Dec 6, 2020)

The refs in rugby are top class, the ones in football are awful and don't deserve respect. Xhaka made a rugby tackle in the second minute and no booking. How can you respect refs who get the basic decisions so wrong? First decision in a big game and so clearly wrong. You have a linesman yesterday not even looking if a ball went out of play which is his job. The players don't respect them, the managers don't and the fans don't.

Get the refs on video cam with sound like the Police, get them to account for their decisions after games in an interview and gradually the quality and respect will improve.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I always remember watching one of the first rugby games I saw after the referees started wearing microphones. A player gave the ref a very minor bit of backchat in comparison to what Premier League officials put up with. The referee’s response?

“Two things. First, you only speak to me when asked to. Second, when you do speak to me, you call me Sir. Ten metres.”

Brilliant.
		
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That’s what football needs imo.
A bit of discipline and respect for the ref and other players.
Stop all this screaming trying to get him booked or worse.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 7, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Surely the 4th official could have said something as it whistled straight over his head in the technical area. 

Click to expand...

The VAR official at Stockley Park could probably have ruled on it as the ball was so far out of play it went past their window. 😀


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Respecting the referee is one thing but that's way over-the-top. I respect lots of people without being told to speak when spoken to and to address them as sir for goodness sake. When I play the referees we respect are the ones who talk to us like adults and explain their decisions. The ones who talk down to us and bark orders like that are the ones who don't get the respect I'm afraid.
		
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Maybe there is the exact issue with football and why the referee appears to have zero control over the players - you say you respect the referee but I reckon just all other footballers when they decision goes against you then you will be balling and screaming at him 

Football is the one sport where people show complete disrespect to the referee regardless of what level and how good rbe ref is 

When I umpire hockey matches - any back chat , straight to sit down for 2 mins , you don’t see any in rugby at all and if there is , sit down for 10 mins. You don’t see dissent in many other sports because the players actually do respect the referees - footballers don’t and never will - they say they do but as soon as something goes against rightly or wrongly then that respect will go out of the window.

Maybe the players need to be spoken to and treated like children because that’s how they act 99% of the time


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## pauljames87 (Dec 7, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe there is the exact issue with football and why the referee appears to have zero control over the players - you say you respect the referee but I reckon just all other footballers when they decision goes against you then you will be balling and screaming at him 

Football is the one sport where people show complete disrespect to the referee regardless of what level and how good rbe ref is 

When I umpire hockey matches - any back chat , straight to sit down for 2 mins , you don’t see any in rugby at all and if there is , sit down for 10 mins. You don’t see dissent in many other sports because the players actually do respect the referees - footballers don’t and never will - they say they do but as soon as something goes against rightly or wrongly then that respect will go out of the window.

Maybe the players need to be spoken to and treated like children because that’s how they act 99% of the time
		
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Think that's harsh on kids to be fair...


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe the players need to be spoken to and treated like children because that’s how they act 99% of the time
		
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Some kids are worse than adults!!

My lads team U11's played yesterday, there was a scuffle between 2 players. Ref blew for a foul, the offender pushed our player and threw the ball at him. 

Ref called the offender over who carried on walking away, he blew his whistle and called him again only for the kid to tell him to Feck Off and gave him 2 fingers. The ref sends him off and the manager says to the kid" why are you doing that?" Kid responds "you told us to kick them so that's what I done"😆


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			...
Every offside decision they are expected to be up with play and *looking at both the last man and the ball constantly*.
...
		
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Which is almost always impossible!


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## Tashyboy (Dec 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			1500? How comes not the 2000?
		
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cannot get 2,000 fans from the City so gave some to sponsors 🤔😉😁


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## Tashyboy (Dec 7, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s what football needs imo.
A bit of discipline and respect for the ref and other players.
Stop all this screaming trying to get him booked or worse.
		
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Thing is though, I remember playing rugby at school in the 70’s and everything was Sir when speaking to the ref/Sir. But again back in the 70’s when I played football it was ref and not Sir. The history when it comes to respect of referees in both sports are “ polar opposites”.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

Football wasn’t invented yesterday, its not Rugby or Hockey or any other Sport, it’s Football and we are were we are today because of its history and its popularity.

No the arguing with Refs isn’t good, but it’s always gone on, and please, there are plenty of videos of Rugby Refs getting abuse, plus they have their own issues.

Maybe we should ask fans to remain silent when penalties are being took, after all Rugby fans do or maybe we should just ban fans all together from Football, isn’t it now proven we don’t need them, we’ve had no violence amongst supporters, no drunken instances, less Police needed at the grounds. Win/Win for society!

Don’t worry we’ll soon get use to it!

Or maybe we leave it alone and acceot the game we love isn’t perfect and does have problems that we should try and solve without constantly year after year comparing it to other sports.

None of us are innocent in this 90+ minutes in a game and we highlight the 30 seconds of bad. Lpool made a very good Wolves side look poor last night and yet the discussion is about Henderson getting in the Refs face for a few seconds!

It’s Football, it’s our game, let’s celebrate the good instead of highlighting the bad.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 7, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Football wasn’t invented yesterday, its not Rugby or Hockey or any other Sport, it’s Football and we are were we are today because of its history and its popularity.

No the arguing with Refs isn’t good, but it’s always gone on, and please, there are plenty of videos of Rugby Refs getting abuse, plus they have their own issues.

Maybe we should ask fans to remain silent when penalties are being took, after all Rugby fans do or maybe we should just ban fans all together from Football, isn’t it now proven we don’t need them, we’ve had no violence amongst supporters, no drunken instances, less Police needed at the grounds. Win/Win for society!

Don’t worry we’ll soon get use to it!

Or maybe we leave it alone and acceot the game we love isn’t perfect and does have problems that we should try and solve without constantly year after year comparing it to other sports.

None of us are innocent in this 90+ minutes in a game and we highlight the 30 seconds of bad. Lpool made a very good Wolves side look poor last night and yet the discussion is about Henderson getting in the Refs face for a few seconds!

It’s Football, it’s our game, let’s celebrate the good instead of highlighting the bad.
		
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I didn’t know Henderson was excersising his vocal chords 😳 thought it was a “ respect of refs” discussion, what was hendo upset about


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## Kellfire (Dec 7, 2020)

Shouting at someone in the heat of the moment does not mean we don’t respect someone. Zero tolerance isn’t the way forward imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I didn’t know Henderson was excersising his vocal chords 😳 thought it was a “ respect of refs” discussion, what was hendo upset about
		
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It started on here with post #3173.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335714577095548930
So what’s the thoughts on this - didn’t realise it until they mentioned on Sky , it happens regularly, what happens when someone lands badly and some serious damage is caused. It’s very dangerous- should Kane face any sanctions when he does it ?


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## Tashyboy (Dec 7, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well that’s another one for bad reffing in my book.
Tell the players anyone getting in the refs face will be booked .
Nobody else would put up with that at work.
*Imagine doing that to a workmate you would be looking for a new job.*

Click to expand...

Or teeth 👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Brilliant performance from the unbearable's, gutted I wasn't 1 of the lucky 1500 to be there tonight.

Fans back in the ground makes a massive difference to watching it on the box.
		
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My cousin was there. He described the atmosphere as 'strange'. Not very expansive but I understand what he means.


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## Orikoru (Dec 7, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Shouting at someone in the heat of the moment does not mean we don’t respect someone. Zero tolerance isn’t the way forward imo.
		
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I agree. When I see people chastising players for their immediate reactions to decisions I feel it's very unlikely they've ever played a competitive sport. When you see a ref make a blatantly wrong decision in your eyes, it's damn near impossible to stay silent, it's just your initial reaction to a perceived injustice. As I said earlier - in the games I play, if the ref makes a call like that and then backs it up by telling us all to get lost and refusing to acknowledge us, that's when he loses our respect - not for the decision itself. If he calmly explains what he thought he saw and why he gave it that way - may only be one quick sentence - then that nearly always dispels it and we get on with the game.

I'm personally not a rugby person at all, so I don't understand all of it, but it's clearly a very different game with a different background and history, different set of rules - comparing football to rugby never makes any logical sense to me. It's apples and oranges.


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## Imurg (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I agree. When I see people chastising players for their immediate reactions to decisions I feel it's very unlikely they've ever played a competitive sport. When you see a ref make a blatantly wrong decision in your eyes, it's damn near impossible to stay silent, it's just your initial reaction to a perceived injustice. As I said earlier - in the games I play, if the ref makes a call like that and then backs it up by telling us all to get lost and refusing to acknowledge us, that's when he loses our respect - not for the decision itself. If he calmly explains what he thought he saw and why he gave it that way - may only be one quick sentence - then that nearly always dispels it and we get on with the game.

I'm personally not a rugby person at all, so I don't understand all of it, but it's clearly a very different game with a different background and history, different set of rules - comparing football to rugby never makes any logical sense to me. It's apples and oranges.
		
Click to expand...

Rugby once described as a thug's game played by Gentleman 
Football once described as a Gentleman's game played by thugs..


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I agree. When I see people chastising players for their immediate reactions to decisions I feel it's very unlikely they've ever played a competitive sport. When you see a ref make a blatantly wrong decision in your eyes, it's damn near impossible to stay silent, it's just your initial reaction to a perceived injustice. As I said earlier - in the games I play, if the ref makes a call like that and then backs it up by telling us all to get lost and refusing to acknowledge us, that's when he loses our respect - not for the decision itself. If he calmly explains what he thought he saw and why he gave it that way - may only be one quick sentence - then that nearly always dispels it and we get on with the game.

I'm personally not a rugby person at all, so I don't understand all of it, but it's clearly a very different game with a different background and history, different set of rules - comparing football to rugby never makes any logical sense to me. It's apples and oranges.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect you have only played football then. It's entirely possible to stay silent, whilst inwardly fuming, if the consequences are great enough and that is instilled in you from day 1. If international, as well as amateur, hockey, rugby, cricket players, plenty of other examples but I will keep it to those 3, can manage then football can if it wants to.

Let's give football a sinbin for a moment. Henderson gets in the face of a ref as he did the other day. Ref puts him in the sinbin for 10, maybe 20 minutes. Liverpool let a goal in during that time. Will he repeat the offence? If he does what will his team mates say to him? What will his manager do? It becomes self policing either by the player, team mates or manager. Football has never had this option, it had the 10yd rule but bottled it. It's easy to do once your mindset is there. At the moment football doesn't have it so you get the current situation.

It is not apples and oranges, it is about behaviour and control.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I agree. When I see people chastising players for their immediate reactions to decisions I feel it's very unlikely they've ever played a competitive sport. When you see a ref make a blatantly wrong decision in your eyes, it's damn near impossible to stay silent, it's just your initial reaction to a perceived injustice. As I said earlier - in the games I play, if the ref makes a call like that and then backs it up by telling us all to get lost and refusing to acknowledge us, that's when he loses our respect - not for the decision itself. If he calmly explains what he thought he saw and why he gave it that way - may only be one quick sentence - then that nearly always dispels it and we get on with the game.

I'm personally not a rugby person at all, so I don't understand all of it, but it's clearly a very different game with a different background and history, different set of rules - comparing football to rugby never makes any logical sense to me. It's apples and oranges.
		
Click to expand...

If you don’t acknowledge the lack of respect for the officials then it will never change 

Reading your post suggests that you have only played and been interested in football and fail to see that many other sports are just as competitive by nature but have a respect for the officials 

I played a high level competitive sport and seen decisions go against us that I thought was wrong - I reacted and got punished for the reaction , I soon learned that my reaction needed to change. Now since I also am an official at the sport the players show the respect , if they don’t then it’s the same punishment- teammates will soon stop it.

If Henderson was screaming in the refs face then he should have been booked and any other player who did it. Doesn’t matter if you the player tbink the decision is wrong - you aren’t the one making the decisions , you respect the officials and then ask the question after the match. 

It’s an attitude problem in football and it won’t ever change unfortunately because the authorities don’t have the guts to crack down on it enough. They do it on the one occasion then expect it to filter through.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 7, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you don’t acknowledge the lack of respect for the officials then it will never change 

Reading your post suggests that you have only played and been interested in football and fail to see that many other sports are just as competitive by nature but have a respect for the officials 

I played a high level competitive sport and seen decisions go against us that I thought was wrong - I reacted and got punished for the reaction , I soon learned that my reaction needed to change. Now since I also am an official at the sport the players show the respect , if they don’t then it’s the same punishment- teammates will soon stop it.

If Henderson was screaming in the refs face then he should have been booked and any other player who did it. Doesn’t matter if you the player tbink the decision is wrong - you aren’t the one making the decisions , you respect the officials and then ask the question after the match. 

It’s an attitude problem in football and it won’t ever change unfortunately because the authorities don’t have the guts to crack down on it enough. They do it on the one occasion then expect it to filter through.
		
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What happened to only the captain being allowed to talk to the ref aswell? They pretty much all went with Henderson yelling 

Now he is the captain he has to set a better example 

Push them all back and talk to the ref is what is suppose to happen


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## Orikoru (Dec 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I suspect you have only played football then. It's entirely possible to stay silent, whilst inwardly fuming, if the consequences are great enough and that is instilled in you from day 1. If international, as well as amateur, hockey, rugby, cricket players, plenty of other examples but I will keep it to those 3, can manage then football can if it wants to.

Let's give football a sinbin for a moment. Henderson gets in the face of a ref as he did the other day. Ref puts him in the sinbin for 10, maybe 20 minutes. Liverpool let a goal in during that time. Will he repeat the offence? If he does what will his team mates say to him? What will his manager do? It becomes self policing either by the player, team mates or manager. Football has never had this option, it had the 10yd rule but bottled it. It's easy to do once your mindset is there. At the moment football doesn't have it so you get the current situation.

It is not apples and oranges, it is about behaviour and control.
		
Click to expand...

As @pauldj42 suggested earlier though, it _is_ apples and oranges because you can't change 100+ years of history of the two sports - that's the reason they are where they are. 

At my level we do actually have sinbins for abusing the referee. Obviously you get that for swearing at him, abusive conduct, and quite rightly of course. But disagreeing with a decision doesn't qualify, so long as you're not calling him every name under the sun. With a good ref you can have that discussion without it getting out of hand. I'm not sure if the plan was to trial the sinbin at non-league in order to eventually introduce it to pro level, or whether it was always going to be non-league only just to help keep more referees in the game.




Liverpoolphil said:



			If you don’t acknowledge the lack of respect for the officials then it will never change

Reading your post suggests that you have only played and been interested in football and fail to see that many other sports are just as competitive by nature but have a respect for the officials

I played a high level competitive sport and seen decisions go against us that I thought was wrong - I reacted and got punished for the reaction , I soon learned that my reaction needed to change. Now since I also am an official at the sport the players show the respect , if they don’t then it’s the same punishment- teammates will soon stop it.

If Henderson was screaming in the refs face then he should have been booked and any other player who did it. Doesn’t matter if you the player tbink the decision is wrong - you aren’t the one making the decisions , you respect the officials and then ask the question after the match.

It’s an attitude problem in football and it won’t ever change unfortunately because the authorities don’t have the guts to crack down on it enough. They do it on the one occasion then expect it to filter through.
		
Click to expand...

I haven't seen the Henderson thing, I've just been talking on a general level from my own experience. If he was shouting abuse at the ref that obviously qualifies as disrespect and I'd expect to see a punishment. And it's the type of thing you would get a sinbin for in my league as I mentioned. I was just saying that instinctively disagreeing with a decision and questioning it isn't 'disrespecting' the referee, you should be able to have that conversation if you're not abusive. 




pauljames87 said:



			What happened to only the captain being allowed to talk to the ref aswell? They pretty much all went with Henderson yelling

Now he is the captain he has to set a better example

Push them all back and talk to the ref is what is suppose to happen
		
Click to expand...

I agree the captain's role should be to calm his teammates down and speak to the ref in a calm, concise way rather than screaming at him. Unfortunately with a lot of clubs the captains seem to be most fiery members of the team sometimes - going back to the days of Roy Keane, Steven Gerrard etc. You remember recently when Maguire was overheard trying to calm Rashford down over a decision and the media/Utd fans were up in arms that their captain _wasn't_ angrily debating the decision!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I suspect you have only played football then. It's entirely possible to stay silent, whilst inwardly fuming, if the consequences are great enough and that is instilled in you from day 1. If international, as well as amateur, hockey, rugby, cricket players, plenty of other examples but I will keep it to those 3, can manage then football can if it wants to.

Let's give football a sinbin for a moment. Henderson gets in the face of a ref as he did the other day. Ref puts him in the sinbin for 10, maybe 20 minutes. Liverpool let a goal in during that time. Will he repeat the offence? If he does what will his team mates say to him? What will his manager do? It becomes self policing either by the player, team mates or manager. Football has never had this option, it had the 10yd rule but bottled it. It's easy to do once your mindset is there. At the moment football doesn't have it so you get the current situation.

It is not apples and oranges, it is about behaviour and control.
		
Click to expand...

I too never played rugby, only football and, in the summer,  cricket. 

Certainly did not have an unblemished disciplinary record at football and was always very committed. 

However, one thing I never did was argue with refs.

What's the point? He's never going to change his decision. 

Inwardly I might curse him but on the outside I always showed respect. 

To me the behaviour often shown nowadays towards officials is reminiscent of a bunch of spoiled toddlers. 

Grow up and get on with the game!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

The sooner Football crowds mirror Cricket with its polite clapping, High Tea during a break and fans in whacky costumes the better.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The sooner Football crowds mirror Cricket with its polite clapping, High Tea during a break and fans in whacky costumes the better.

Click to expand...

Don't mess with cricket teas. Marvellous things


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2020)

@Orikoru In rugby and hockey, cricket also but it is a calmer sport generally so probably best to leave that to one side, you can speak to the officials, ask why they gave a decision but you do it politely and calmly. What you don't do is shout at them, get in their faces, surround them etc. The best officials in any sport have a conversation with the players but that conversation needs to be done in a reasonable manner. You can be committed and polite at the same time, it really isn't hard.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My cousin was there. He described the atmosphere as 'strange'. Not very expansive but I understand what he means.
		
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Spoke to a few mates this morning they said it was boss given there was only 1500 on the kop.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

4 English players blatantly diving and cheating and not a mention on MOTD or sky over the last fortnight, imagine the fume if they were foreign.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Spoke to a few mates this morning they said it was boss given there was only 1500 on the kop.
		
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He was buzzing to be there after all this time but it can't be the same as when the ground is full. Better than nothing though, baby steps...........


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			4 English players blatantly diving and cheating and not a mention on MOTD or sky over the last fortnight, imagine the fume if they were foreign.
		
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Yep, Coady cheats, VAR catches him, focus is on Henderson! 🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			4 English players blatantly diving and cheating and not a mention on MOTD or sky over the last fortnight, imagine the fume if they were foreign.
		
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Amazon did say coady should have been booked

But your correct the BBC never talk about it


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 7, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Rugby once described as a thug's game played by Gentleman
Football once described as a Gentleman's game played by thugs..
		
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Football is 11 men pretending they're hurt, rugby is 13 men pretending they're not.


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Football is 11 men pretending they're hurt, rugby is 13 men pretending they're not. 

Click to expand...

proper rugbys 15 men


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## Imurg (Dec 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			proper rugbys 15 men 

Click to expand...

Yeah, but the wingers don't get involved enough to count..


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## Big_G (Dec 7, 2020)

I've never heard of a football player bringing a blood capsule onto the pitch to cheat?


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## Orikoru (Dec 7, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I too never played rugby, only football and, in the summer,  cricket.

Certainly did not have an unblemished disciplinary record at football and was always very committed.

*However, one thing I never did was argue with refs.

What's the point? He's never going to change his decision.*

Inwardly I might curse him but on the outside I always showed respect.

To me the behaviour often shown nowadays towards officials is reminiscent of a bunch of spoiled toddlers.

Grow up and get on with the game!
		
Click to expand...

I can only speak for myself and my teammates here, but often when you have a reaction in the heat of the moment, you do know that he's not going to change his mind, but that's not what you're looking for - you just need an explanation for how he could have seen something so polar opposite to what you've seen. That's why I've said the refs who do explain themselves usually dispel those emotions quickly, because once they've explained their point of view all you can do is accept it and move on. If they refuse to engage and tell you to get lost, all it does is wind players up, and often the game gets out of hand as a result, because you have a bunch of wound up players going at each other then.



Blue in Munich said:



			Football is 11 men pretending they're hurt, *rugby is 13 men pretending they're not.* 

Click to expand...

Except when they're popping blood capsules in their mouths of course.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Amazon did say coady should have been booked

But your correct the BBC never talk about it
		
Click to expand...

It was a general point, not just yesterday. 

If it was Johnny foreigner it'd be covered on every show with 10 different angles in slo-mo with every man and his dog having a go.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It was a general point, not just yesterday. 

If it was Johnny foreigner it'd be covered on every show with 10 different angles in slo-mo with every man and his dog having a go.
		
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Funny he said that before hand but they clearly don't talk about it as much


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2020)

Big_G said:



			I've never heard of a football player bringing a blood capsule onto the pitch to cheat?
		
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The chat was not about cheating or thuggery, it was about how sports deal with the relationship between players and refs. Other sports have their own issues but on this football is near the bottom.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 33869


Funny he said that before hand but they clearly don't talk about it as much
		
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I don't remember Welbeck being blasted last week after they had all afternoon to build a case.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't remember Welbeck being blasted last week after they had all afternoon to build a case.
		
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Remember, Welbeck had a right to go down.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 7, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Football is 11 men pretending they're hurt, rugby is *13 men* pretending they're not. 

Click to expand...




Orikoru said:



			Except when they're popping blood capsules in their mouths of course. 

Click to expand...

13 men is Rugby League, popping blood capsules is Rugby Union.


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## Slime (Dec 7, 2020)

Big_G said:



			I've never heard of a football player bringing a blood capsule onto the pitch to cheat?
		
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I've never heard of a rugby player bringing a razor blade onto the pitch!


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## Orikoru (Dec 7, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			13 men is Rugby League, popping blood capsules is Rugby Union.  

Click to expand...

How daft is a sport where they can't even agree between them how it should be played!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I can only speak for myself and my teammates here, but often when you have a reaction in the heat of the moment, you do know that he's not going to change his mind, but that's not what you're looking for - you just need an explanation for how he could have seen something so polar opposite to what you've seen. That's why I've said the refs who do explain themselves usually dispel those emotions quickly, because once they've explained their point of view all you can do is accept it and move on. If they refuse to engage and tell you to get lost, all it does is wind players up, and often the game gets out of hand as a result, because you have a bunch of wound up players going at each other then.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah! And the moment the ref provides details of the reason for his decision the players will just respectfully accept that and move on.

Do me a favour! The arguing and ranting would continue until the ref starts dishing out cards or walks away.

If he does the former he is accused of losing control and in the event of the latter he apparently doesn't understand the game and  players.

I don't understand why players, whether in the Premier League or the Parks League, can't just accept that officials like players sometimes make mistakes.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 7, 2020)

Just an observation but I did notice an awful lot of comment on social media and MSM about the officials at the London Stadium on Saturday and the effect their actions may have had on the result. 

Hardly seen anything about the highly paid striker who went through on goal, rounded the keeper  and promptly fell on his arse.

Now that really did affect the result!


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 7, 2020)

I don't understand Henderson, or any other player, screaming at the ref for giving a penalty. With VAR they are going to look at the decision and check it. If it is a penalty then you look an idiot for wrongly screaming at the ref for giving a correct decision. If it isn't a penalty it will be overturned on review and then you look an idiot for screaming at the ref unnecessarily.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 7, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't understand Henderson, or any other player, screaming at the ref for giving a penalty. With VAR they are going to look at the decision and check it. If it is a penalty then you look an idiot for wrongly screaming at the ref for giving a correct decision. If it isn't a penalty it will be overturned on review and then you look an idiot for screaming at the ref unnecessarily.
		
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I started this whole debate and tbh it was more to do with the current climate.. we told to give people space but let's see the captain of Liverpool spraying the ref with all his germs by shouting less than 2 foot away 

Hardly a good example


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't understand Henderson, or any other player, screaming at the ref for giving a penalty. With VAR they are going to look at the decision and check it. If it is a penalty then you look an idiot for wrongly screaming at the ref for giving a correct decision. If it isn't a penalty it will be overturned on review and then you look an idiot for screaming at the ref unnecessarily.
		
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Let's be honest its in the heat of the moment and Henderson and others are certain there was no foul. It was a natural reaction, hardly scenes of Keane  and Stam.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't understand Henderson, or any other player, screaming at the ref for giving a penalty. With VAR they are going to look at the decision and check it. If it is a penalty then you look an idiot for wrongly screaming at the ref for giving a correct decision. If it isn't a penalty it will be overturned on review and then you look an idiot for screaming at the ref unnecessarily.
		
Click to expand...

But it was proved the Ref was wrong and Coady cheated, but because it was a VAR review Coady doesn’t receive a Yellow Card for diving.

Maybe Henderson knew that and was taking his frustration out on the one who got it wrong and couldn’t give Coady a card.🤷‍♂️


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Yeah! And the moment the ref provides details of the reason for his decision the players will just respectfully accept that and move on.

Do me a favour! The arguing and ranting would continue until the ref starts dishing out cards or walks away.

If he does the former he is accused of losing control and in the event of the latter he apparently doesn't understand the game and  players.

I don't understand why players, whether in the Premier League or the Parks League, can't just accept that officials like players sometimes make mistakes.
		
Click to expand...




MetalMickie said:



			Just an observation but I did notice an awful lot of comment on social media and MSM about the officials at the London Stadium on Saturday and the effect their actions may have had on the result.

Hardly seen anything about the highly paid striker who went through on goal, rounded the keeper  and promptly fell on his arse.

Now that really did affect the result!
		
Click to expand...

No excuse for parks leagues etc, but maybe the way money has taken over the game, some of these decisions could in effect cost Clubs or players millions. Not agreeing with that by the way.

In answer to your 2nd point, it is very rare at the moment the media will highlight an error like that when there is more fuss to be made about VAR.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			As @pauldj42 suggested earlier though, it _is_ apples and oranges because you can't change 100+ years of history of the two sports - that's the reason they are where they are.

At my level we do actually have sinbins for abusing the referee. Obviously you get that for swearing at him, abusive conduct, and quite rightly of course. But disagreeing with a decision doesn't qualify, so long as you're not calling him every name under the sun. With a good ref you can have that discussion without it getting out of hand. I'm not sure if the plan was to trial the sinbin at non-league in order to eventually introduce it to pro level, or whether it was always going to be non-league only just to help keep more referees in the game.



I haven't seen the Henderson thing, I've just been talking on a general level from my own experience. If he was shouting abuse at the ref that obviously qualifies as disrespect and I'd expect to see a punishment. And it's the type of thing you would get a sinbin for in my league as I mentioned. I was just saying that instinctively disagreeing with a decision and questioning it isn't 'disrespecting' the referee, you should be able to have that conversation if you're not abusive.



I agree the captain's role should be to calm his teammates down and speak to the ref in a calm, concise way rather than screaming at him. Unfortunately with a lot of clubs the captains seem to be most fiery members of the team sometimes - going back to the days of Roy Keane, Steven Gerrard etc. You remember recently when Maguire was overheard trying to calm Rashford down over a decision and the media/Utd fans were up in arms that their captain _wasn't_ angrily debating the decision!
		
Click to expand...

If you can’t change 100+ years of history in a sport how come we have ended up with VAR?
Never had it 100 yrs ago.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Thing is though, I remember playing rugby at school in the 70’s and everything was Sir when speaking to the ref/Sir. But again back in the 70’s when I played football it was ref and not Sir. The history when it comes to respect of referees in both sports are “ polar opposites”.
		
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It’s a culture thing.
Calling a ref Sir was mainly because he was a teacher who just refereed .
Maybe we need a sin bin in footy they need to do something .
But they don’t have the will, as they have proved many times before.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you can’t change 100+ years of history in a sport how come we have ended up with VAR?
Never had it 100 yrs ago.
		
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It’s not been 100 years of players acting like spoilt children - it’s crept into the game when the Premiership started and money became such a big say in the game. 

It won’t change unfortunately and will prob ultimately get wory


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not been 100 years of players acting like spoilt children - it’s crept into the game when the Premiership started and money became such a big say in the game.

It won’t change unfortunately and will prob ultimately get wory
		
Click to expand...

The football authorities could change it tomorrow but they just don’t have the will.
They have changed a lot of interpretations of the rules this year .
Every initiative they have is shelved to soon and they just don’t see anything through.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 7, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But it was proved the Ref was wrong and Coady cheated, but because it was a VAR review Coady doesn’t receive a Yellow Card for diving.

Maybe Henderson knew that and was taking his frustration out on the one who got it wrong and couldn’t give Coady a card.🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Do you really think that Henderson would get that animated over an opponent not getting a yellow card? That's ridiculous. Henderson lost the plot over a poor refereeing decision that gave a penalty against his team. Nothing to do with a yellow card or not.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2020)

It was the ref that changed his mind after looking at the monitor ,alerted by VAR.
The refs in charge and he really should have booked Cody .
The ref is in control of the game and imo should be able to do whatever he sees fit in the game.
Stupid rules like “ he can’t book him because ( add any stupid reason) the rules say so.
That rule needs changing .
The ref should have total control of the game.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not been 100 years of players acting like spoilt children - it’s crept into the game when the Premiership started and money became such a big say in the game.

It won’t change unfortunately and will prob ultimately get wory
		
Click to expand...

Not sure it was all down to the PL. I can remember the likes of Bremner, Souness and a host of others getting into the face of refs well before the PL


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Do you really think that Henderson would get that animated over an opponent not getting a yellow card? That's ridiculous. Henderson lost the plot over a poor refereeing decision that gave a penalty against his team. Nothing to do with a yellow card or not.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not, but when that incident happened it could of changed the game, so maybe we should be looking at Coady being the villian in this piece rather than Henderson, who I can understand getting emotional over such a bad decision.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2020)

Pogba's agent starting at getting him away from Old Trafford in January. Hardly ideal timing with a massive CL game coming up 

https://www.skysports.com/football/...summer-transfer-window-says-agent-mino-raiola


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not been 100 years of players acting like spoilt children - it’s crept into the game when the Premiership started and money became such a big say in the game.

It won’t change unfortunately and will prob ultimately get wory
		
Click to expand...

Just go the back 50yrs then.


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Pogba's agent starting at getting him away from Old Trafford in January. Hardly ideal timing with a massive CL game coming up

https://www.skysports.com/football/...summer-transfer-window-says-agent-mino-raiola

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starting? been doing it for more than 18mths lol


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was the ref that changed his mind after looking at the monitor ,alerted by VAR.
The refs in charge and he really should have booked Cody .
The ref is in control of the game and imo should be able to do whatever he sees fit in the game.
Stupid rules like “ he can’t book him because ( add any stupid reason) the rules say so.
That rule needs changing .
*The ref should have total control of the game.*

Click to expand...

Only if you’re willing to accept bad decisions? Surely we should be applauding the use of VAR in this.

In a situation like this the FA should be able to step in and give Coady a retrospective yellow card.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			starting? been doing it for more than 18mths lol
		
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OK then ramping up the pressure again. 

Personally I think it's a case of Pogba not being asked most of the time rather than being unable to express himself. Perhaps if he put himself out and put a few top drawer performances then other club may pay attention


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## Old Skier (Dec 7, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Only if you’re willing to accept bad decisions? Surely we should be applauding the use of VAR in this.

In a situation like this the FA should be able to step in and give Coady a retrospective yellow card.
		
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Human error by refs is a big part of football in the majority of games played in the UK. There VAR is all about opinions, it’s great when it’s in your favour no matter how stupid the issue is, and against it if it hasn’t worked in your favour. A bit like refs decisions.

I personally think it’s a way of the refs Union earning a bit more dosh and feel that if the vote went to the Prem managers they would bin it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2020)

Looks like Mario has finally burned all his bridges and now forced to ply his trade in the depths of the Italian leagues https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55221630


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## pauljames87 (Dec 7, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Looks like Mario has finally burned all his bridges and now forced to ply his trade in the depths of the Italian leagues https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55221630

Click to expand...

I'd take him

We are limited on the forward front


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd take him

We are limited on the forward front
		
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You'd think given his age there would still be a few clubs looking to take him on. I wonder if all the baggage he comes with has finally become too great for clubs to be prepared to take a risk on


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd take him

We are limited on the forward front
		
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Been there, seen it, done it. I wouldn't even wish him on Everton.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Been there, seen it, done it. I wouldn't even wish him on Everton.
		
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I can imagine him at Fulham. I'm sure Mario and Mitrovic would get on famously and no chance of them rubbing each other up the wrong way. What could possibly go wrong?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Human error by refs is a big part of football in the majority of games played in the UK. There VAR is all about opinions, it’s great when it’s in your favour no matter how stupid the issue is, and against it if it hasn’t worked in your favour. A bit like refs decisions.

I personally think it’s a way of the refs Union earning a bit more dosh and feel that if the vote went to the Prem managers they would bin it.
		
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I’d pause it and start it again when they work out the problems, VAR itself isn’t the issue, it’s the people using it and how it’s used.


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2020)

VAR taking the proverbial again tonight


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## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			VAR taking the proverbial again tonight
		
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Like I said last week. 

VAR is superb....


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## Orikoru (Dec 7, 2020)

Another scandalous use of VAR. It was a foul but Walker-Peters absolutely launched himself into the box, I mean he was flying. Why are they changing it to a penalty when it wasn't clear and obvious? That phrase redundant again. The foul was outside the box.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Another scandalous use of VAR. It was a foul but Walker-Peters absolutely launched himself into the box, I mean he was flying. Why are they changing it to a penalty when it wasn't clear and obvious? That phrase redundant again. The foul was outside the box.
		
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As much as I agree he launched himself. 
The difference between a penalty or free kick is imo substantial enough that VAR should get involved because giving one or the other incorrectly would be an obvious error. 

That being said. They've had a shocker. He did get touched whilst in the box too, and they mentioned the rule about contact continuing in the box. But I've not heard that rule.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Another scandalous use of VAR. It was a foul but Walker-Peters absolutely launched himself into the box, I mean he was flying. Why are they changing it to a penalty when it wasn't clear and obvious? That phrase redundant again. The foul was outside the box.
		
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Don't worry he's English, it'll get swept under the carpet.

How many times have we seen fouls dragged back to where they started?


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## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Don't worry he's English, it'll get swept under the carpet.

How many times have we seen fouls dragged back to where they started?
		
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I woukdnt put his actions in the same category as as others recently discussed. He's made the most of it yes, but it's a clear foul.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Like I said last week. 

VAR is superb....
		
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Even for the Brighton pen? 

The change of handball rule is pathetic, there was no intent or advantage gained For that pen.


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## Piece (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Another scandalous use of VAR. It was a foul but Walker-Peters absolutely launched himself into the box, I mean he was flying. Why are they changing it to a penalty when it wasn't clear and obvious? That phrase redundant again. The foul was outside the box.
		
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Or....

...the contact *that was the foul* was inside the box. Not sure why all the fuss. I'd be having a pop at March for being out of position and bringing the man down.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2020)

Well, we aren't top anymore. But we've played more than 10 games now. So it counts as a good start now.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Even for the Brighton pen?

The change of handball rule is pathetic, there was no intent or advantage gained For that pen.
		
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Like I said, it evens itself out.... 

Not sure VAR had anything to do with their penalty tbf fella. 

VAR obv check it. But ref gave it. That's down to the rules. Not VAR.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I woukdnt put his actions in the same category as as others recently discussed. He's made the most of it yes, but it's a clear foul.
		
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Neither would I but the point, a general one, stands.

I thought it was a free kick, I can't remember a pen ever being given for where the foul ended up, it was always dragged back.

Brighton got Lucky last week, unlucky this week 🤷‍♂️


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## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Neither would I but the point, a general one, stands.

I thought it was a free kick, I can't remember a pen ever being given for where the foul ended up, it was always dragged back.

Brighton got Lucky last week, unlucky this week 🤷‍♂️
		
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I think the only defence for our pen. Or the one that will be peddled is what Piece has suggested. They'll argue that the initial foul was the push on contact that put him off balance, but he was riding the tackle and then caught again (which he is) when he's in the box.


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think the only defence for our pen. Or the one that will be peddled is what Piece has suggested. They'll argue that the initial foul was the push on contact that put him off balance, but he was riding the tackle and then caught again (which he is) when he's in the box.
		
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why for the last 20 or 30 years have they always asked where the first foul/contact is then?

sorry but thats garbage imho


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## 4LEX (Dec 7, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Pogba's agent starting at getting him away from Old Trafford in January. Hardly ideal timing with a massive CL game coming up

https://www.skysports.com/football/...summer-transfer-window-says-agent-mino-raiola

Click to expand...

Mourinho was right about him. A toxic virus. 

He doesn't start in Utd's strongest side these days. Bruno has shown what a true world class attacking midfielder is. Quality, workrate and leadership. No debate about him needing two DM's to get the best from him, he does it all and gets back to help out.

Woodward made a bad call not selling Pogba in 2018 when he could've made a profit and 2019 when it become even clearer what a bad influence he was becoming. Due to his contract situation, sky high wages, Covid affected market and woeful form over a few years, no one would pay than £40 tops for him. A near £50m loss and £60m in wages over 4 years......what a way to run a club.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think the only defence for our pen. Or the one that will be peddled is what Piece has suggested. They'll argue that the initial foul was the push on contact that put him off balance, but he was riding the tackle and then caught again (which he is) when he's in the box.
		
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If that's a pen now, they've set the bar and can't pull anymore of those back in future.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			why for the last 20 or 30 years have they always asked where the first foul/contact is then?

sorry but thats garbage imho
		
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I'm not saying it's a good defence. Im saying it's the cop out they may use. 

Although for the last 30 years they haven't had VAR. 

For the record. I think it was a free kick, but what if VAR shows a player get fouled but quite clearly stil have control (advantage) and then fouled again. You could easily arguw for a penalty, something you could t have done without VAR.


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## Orikoru (Dec 7, 2020)

Piece said:



			Or....

...the contact *that was the foul* was inside the box. Not sure why all the fuss. I'd be having a pop at March for being out of position and bringing the man down.
		
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The foul was outside the box. Then KWP launches himself through the air, and maybe makes minor contact with March's leg again in mid-air, but that is so debateable that it can't be a clear and obvious error enough to make it a penalty. No chance. Free kick outside was the right decision. 

The other penalty was stonewall though. Ward-Prowse's hand is right up in the sky for absolutely no reason and he brings the ball down with it. Easy one that was.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If that's a pen now, they've set the bar and can't pull anymore of those back in future.
		
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Like I say, it depends if they rule there were two fouls or a continuation of one. 

As for them not pulling one back I the future. Why not? It's not like they're consistent atm...


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Like I say, it depends if they rule there were two fouls or a continuation of one.

As for them not pulling one back I the future. Why not? It's not like they're consistent atm...
		
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so youre turning down the first foul and waiting till you get one where you want under VAR ?  lol yeah that seems fair


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If that's a pen now, they've set the bar and can't pull anymore of those back in future.
		
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you know full well one will get pulled back next week just to prove the inconsistency


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## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2020)

Again, I'm not saying it's fair. But they seem to be winging decisions.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2020)

You could hear the frustration in the voice of the Sky interviewer not getting a reaction to the penalty from the Brighton manager. Well done Graham Potter.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Only if you’re willing to accept bad decisions? Surely we should be applauding the use of VAR in this.

In a situation like this the FA should be able to step in and give Coady a retrospective yellow card.
		
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Yes I agree VAR advised the ref of a problem.
Ultimately it was the ref who made the final decision, so I can’t see why he can’t book him for diving.
Totally agree but they don’t have the balls to keep it up until the players change their behaviour.
It’s right at the top decision makers that are the problem imo.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Even for the Brighton pen?

The change of handball rule is pathetic, there was no intent or advantage gained For that pen.
		
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The rule hasnt changed.

However, the interpretation changes by the week, by the hour, by the game, within a game......


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## Piece (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			The foul was outside the box. Then KWP launches himself through the air, and maybe makes minor contact with March's leg again in mid-air, but that is so debateable that it can't be a clear and obvious error enough to make it a penalty. No chance. Free kick outside was the right decision.
		
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I have the different view and that's the beauty of football. First player-to-player contact was outside and that wasn't a foul, imho. The contact that brought the player down, imho, was inside. Pen was the right decision, imho.

The defender is behind the man meaning he's running the risk of having the decision not go his way. So it proved. VAR wasn't ruling on the foul, just whether foul contact was in or out.

The above doesn't defend David Coote. He is still crap.


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## Piece (Dec 7, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You could hear the frustration in the voice of the Sky interviewer not getting a reaction to the penalty from the Brighton manager. Well done Graham Potter.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Sky, Sky pundits and some fans just want to stir VAR controversy where there really isn't. Watch-bait I'd call it 😜


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			you know full well one will get pulled back next week just to prove the inconsistency 

Click to expand...

Knowing our luck at the minute it'll be against us on Salah😄😄


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Knowing our luck at the minute it'll be against us on Salah😄😄
		
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lol poor hard done by liverpool eh


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol poor hard done by liverpool eh 

Click to expand...

I couldn't resist 🤣🤣🤣


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## Orikoru (Dec 7, 2020)

Piece said:



			I have the different view and that's the beauty of football. First player-to-player contact was outside and that wasn't a foul, imho. The contact that brought the player down, imho, was inside. Pen was the right decision, imho.

The defender is behind the man meaning he's running the risk of having the decision not go his way. So it proved. VAR wasn't ruling on the foul, just whether foul contact was in or out.

The above doesn't defend David Coote. He is still crap.
		
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As soon as he put his arm in Walker-Peters back, W-P throws himself forward to try and land inside the box - the secondary contact happens when he's already falling so that can't have been the foul.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			How daft is a sport where they can't even agree between them how it should be played! 

Click to expand...

It's two separate codes with two different sets of rules, yet both codes know what their rules are week in week out. 

Football is apparently one game with one set of rules but no one knows what they are from one week to another. 

You were right; you can't really compare football with rugby as one knows what it's doing, regardless of the code, & the other one doesn't.


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## Orikoru (Dec 8, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's two separate codes with two different sets of rules, yet both codes know what their rules are week in week out. 

*Football is apparently one game with one set of rules but no one knows what they are from one week to another. *

You were right; you can't really compare football with rugby as one knows what it's doing, regardless of the code, & the other one doesn't.
		
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Give you that one! 😭


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## SaintHacker (Dec 8, 2020)

Piece said:



			I have the different view and that's the beauty of football. First player-to-player contact was outside and that wasn't a foul, imho. The contact that brought the player down, imho, was inside. Pen was the right decision, imho.

The defender is behind the man meaning he's running the risk of having the decision not go his way. So it proved. VAR wasn't ruling on the foul, just whether foul contact was in or out.

The above doesn't defend David Coote. He is still crap.
		
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I agree with this (funnily enough) The first view, from the main camera, initial reaction was the ref got it spot on. However when you see the second view from the front, I'm not so sure now. Yes the initial contact is outside the box but KWP doesn't start going over until the second contact, which is either right on the line or inside.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2020)

Great start for Leipzig. 

Remember when this yernited back 5 was the best in the PL?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Great start for Leipzig.

Remember when this yernited back 5 was the best in the PL?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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6/4 with their home record and having drawn 3-3 at bayern with half a side at the weekend


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			6/4 with their home record and having drawn 3-3 at bayern with half a side at the weekend 

Click to expand...

Somebody's on the Leipzig -2 @ 20's.....


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2020)

Taxi for Ole?


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## Tashyboy (Dec 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Great start for Leipzig.

Remember when this yernited back 5 was the best in the PL?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Always good when a City Loanee scores as well. Long way to go yet though 🤫


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Somebody's on the Leipzig -2 @ 20's.....
		
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7/2 Leipzig and BTTS all i got left, guess i have to cheer utd now haha

Lazio not winning from 2-1 up v 10 men going to be very costly it seems


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## SteveW86 (Dec 8, 2020)

We all know UTD play much better when they are behind, once Ole gets them in at half time and inspires them they will surely be fine 🤔🤔


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			7/2 Leipzig and BTTS all i got left, guess i have to cheer utd now haha

Lazio not winning from 2-1 up v 10 men going to be very costly it seems 

Click to expand...

Ouch. I had a treble of lazio, dortmund,Yernited games 1st half overs 1.5 🤨


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			We all know UTD play much better when they are behind, once Ole gets them in at half time and inspires them they will surely be fine 🤔🤔
		
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He needs to bring Fernándes on....


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## SteveW86 (Dec 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He needs to bring Fernándes on....
		
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Pogba can be the saviour tonight, his head is in the right place to put a shift in


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He needs to bring Fernándes on....
		
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nah he needs to take him off before hes sent off


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

Sides walked off in PSG game reportedly due to 4th official being racist


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sides walked off in PSG game reportedly due to 4th official being racist 

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Wow


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## Kellfire (Dec 8, 2020)

Alleged he called Ba the n word.


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ouch. I had a treble of lazio, dortmund,Yernited games 1st half overs 1.5 🤨
		
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lazio, dortmund, leipzig and btts in chelsea game sigh

there again they were lucky not to lose in the end after completely shutting up shop


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Alleged he called Ba the n word.
		
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If thats true then surely they pull the 4th official and restart the game and then he gets dealt with afterwards?


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

Heard it reported the ref asked who to book on the Istanbul bench and he identified Ba by calling him "The black man"


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## SteveW86 (Dec 8, 2020)

2020, the year that keeps on giving


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 8, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336407110645657609
Not good at all


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## Kellfire (Dec 8, 2020)

So by all accounts it seems the fourth official referred to the assistant manager as “the black one” which isn’t inherently racist but what a stupid thing to do.


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## Slime (Dec 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Great start for Leipzig.

Remember when this yernited back 5 was the best in the PL?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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We've done that one to death, I blame Pogba.


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## Beezerk (Dec 8, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			So by all accounts it seems the fourth official referred to the assistant manager as “the black one” which isn’t inherently racist but what a stupid thing to do.
		
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Weird one, sort of feel for the 4th official here as the motive behind it seems purely innocent.
Wonder what Uefa will do.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2020)

Slime said:



			We've done that one to death, I blame Pogba.
		
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It gets funnier every time. 

Why? Has he picked this side tonight and set the tactics?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Weird one, sort of feel for the 4th official here as the motive behind it seems purely innocent.
*Wonder what Uefa will do*.
		
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Probably promote him to head referee.


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It gets funnier every time.

Why? Has he picked this side tonight and set the tactics?
		
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a draw was plenty, no use at 0-2 tho lol

any truth in the rumour the 4th official in the psg game is a united plant and psg will be thrown out for walking off allowing united to go through


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

A soft united penalty, surely not lol


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 8, 2020)

Thats never a pen


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## Slime (Dec 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			A soft united penalty, surely not lol
		
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Aren't all United penalties soft?
I didn't see tonight's because I stopped watching when Pogba came on.


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

Slime said:



			Aren't all United penalties soft?
I didn't see tonight's because I stopped watching when Pogba came on.
		
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this one reallly really is

Pogbas just made it 3-2 btw


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## Slime (Dec 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			this one reallly really is

Pogbas just made it 3-2 btw 

Click to expand...

Wow, it was 2-0 when I bowed out.
Maybe VAR will overturn it?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 8, 2020)

Now the're playing under different rules, hits maguires arm and........nothing. it shouldnt be disallowed for minor unintentional arm contact, but its 100% always given now, except on this occasion.


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2020)

Slime said:



			Wow, it was 2-0 when I bowed out.
Maybe VAR will overturn it?
		
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shouldve done was clear handball lol

3-2 now


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			A soft united penalty, surely not lol
		
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Disgraceful.


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## Orikoru (Dec 8, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			So by all accounts it seems the fourth official referred to the assistant manager as “the black one” which isn’t inherently racist but what a stupid thing to do.
		
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Context is everything though. If he's been ask who to show the card to and simply said it's the black man, I think it's ok. Assuming there was only one black man in the vicinity. If he's said "I dunno, just book the black guy" then that's racist. Or if he's fuming going 'book that black guy!" then probably racist as well. 

Yeah he possibly should avoided the issue by simply walking over and indicating which man it was from close distance.


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## Slime (Dec 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Context is everything though. *If he's been ask who to show the card to and simply said it's the black man, I think it's ok.* Assuming there was only one black man in the vicinity. If he's said "I dunno, just book the black guy" then that's racist. Or if he's fuming going 'book that black guy!" then probably racist as well.

Yeah he possibly should avoided the issue by simply walking over and indicating which man it was from close distance.
		
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Totally agree.
In fact, I agree with all of the above.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2020)

Cancel your Thursday night quiz nights yernited fans 🤣🤣🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 8, 2020)

Every time I see that ref Im always amazed how he gets to keep his job - card happy and always gives shocking decisions 

That was never a penalty in a million years , it was closer to being a foul by Greenwood and then the ball clearly hitting Maguire on the hand which with the current rules should have been disallowed 

Leipzig were superb and thankfully they got the result they deserved


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2020)

Pogba made a difference when he came on.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 8, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/5520350

 the BBC put this on a couple of days ago. Kiss of death me finks


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## 4LEX (Dec 8, 2020)

Man Utd playing a genuine back 5 and 2 holding midfielders, great to see after getting rid of Jose Utd have gone for an attacking manager! 

Outclassed tonight in the first 60 and paid the price for bottling it in Turkey and awful decisions in the PSG game last week. That said even in another woeful showing, Ole still finds more luck in 45 minutes than most managers get in a season. Dodgy pen and a deflection almost hauled them through


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## Orikoru (Dec 8, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Man Utd playing a genuine back 5 and 2 holding midfielders, great to see after getting rid of Jose Utd have gone for an attacking manager!

Outclassed tonight in the first 60 and paid the price for bottling it in Turkey and awful decisions in the PSG game last week. That said even in another woeful showing, Ole still finds more luck in 45 minutes than most managers get in a season.* Dodgy pen and a deflection almost hauled them through* 

Click to expand...

Best chance of equalising was a near own goal as well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Context is everything though. If he's been ask who to show the card to and simply said it's the black man, I think it's ok. Assuming there was only one black man in the vicinity. If he's said "I dunno, just book the black guy" then that's racist. Or if he's fuming going 'book that black guy!" then probably racist as well.

Yeah he possibly should avoided the issue by simply walking over and indicating which man it was from close distance.
		
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From twitter:
But this is the problem: racism and ignorance are not mutually exclusive. They often go together. Just because a reckless driver does not mean to dent someone else’s car, it does not make that car any less dented. Racism is not about intent. It is about effect.


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## Orikoru (Dec 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			From twitter:
But this is the problem: racism and ignorance are not mutually exclusive. They often go together. Just because a reckless driver does not mean to dent someone else’s car, it does not make that car any less dented. Racism is not about intent. It is about effect.
		
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Not sure how that relates to what I said but ok.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not sure how that relates to what I said but ok.
		
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It relates in the fact that context is irrelevant, the 4th official should know better.


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## Orikoru (Dec 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It relates in the fact that context is irrelevant, the 4th official should know better.
		
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Maybe, or maybe he did nothing wrong. We don't know at the moment.


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## Junior (Dec 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Pogba made a difference when he came on.
		
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Course he did.  He played well at the weekend too as he's back in the shop window now.   Shouldn't be allowed back in the training ground.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 9, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It relates in the fact that context is irrelevant, the 4th official should know better.
		
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When me and Missis T adopted, our first appointment was with a Black female social worker. She went through all the topics we will go through to be accepted to adopt. Cultures, race, religion, sexuality etc etc. It was all about understanding and acceptance of others. She asked me if I had any Black friends. I told her i Had a few coloured friends but there were not many coloureds that worked in the pit. You are talking 25 years ago. She was not happy and went onto say she is Black and proud. I mentioned that she meant Black, I meant everyone that is not white. People from all over the world. She was having none of it. I asked a Black friend the following weekend re is he Black or coloured and what’s the difference. He said to him there is no difference, to others it means a lot. He said it’s how it is said that he knows if folk are being ignorant/ rascist or not.
Now that adoption course took four years to complete. During the first meeting with the social worker she went onto explain about black people there culture and food. She mentioned they eat chicken, rice and peas. By the end of the course we were told we were not to mention black people eat chicken, rice and peas as it “ type casts” people. What was acceptable and what was not changed over the course of four years. It was frustrating.
For me there is racism in this country, but there is also, sexism, nepotism, Gay bashing ( why can people still in 2020 not come out as gay for fear of abuse) Etc etc. The list is long with what is wrong in this and other countries. Because a person may not know the correct terminology I don’t think it don’t makes them rascist. Anywhere in between naive to ignorant to rascist yes. But as I have said, this problem will not be solved by taking a knee, it will highlight the problem. But for me Racism and other problems in this country should be taught at school and especially at home.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2020)

Junior said:



			Course he did.  He played well at the weekend too as he's back in the shop window now.   Shouldn't be allowed back in the training ground.
		
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Neither should the manager 😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 9, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			But for me Racism and other problems in this country should be taught at school and especially at home.
		
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Racism, homophobia, religious intolerance etc are all covered in schools. The problem is not what the schools teach it is what the kids hear and see when they get home. This is why it takes so long to weed out the problems.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			But for me Racism and other problems in this country should be taught at school and especially at home.
		
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Are you sure??

Racists teaching there kids about  racism?? 

This is already happening and is why the problem still exists. Racism, Bigotry, homophobic is all taught at home. 

I'm a great  believer that children are only a reflection of the parents, generally.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Are you sure??

Racists teaching there kids about  racism??

This is already happening and is why the problem still exists. Racism, Bigotry, homophobic is all taught at home.

I'm a great  believer that children are only a reflection of the parents, generally.
		
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I don’t think it should be left to just schools, parents have an important role in educating there children.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 9, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			When me and Missis T adopted, our first appointment was with a Black female social worker. She went through all the topics we will go through to be accepted to adopt. Cultures, race, religion, sexuality etc etc. It was all about understanding and acceptance of others. She asked me if I had any Black friends. I told her i Had a few coloured friends but there were not many coloureds that worked in the pit. You are talking 25 years ago. She was not happy and went onto say she is Black and proud. I mentioned that she meant Black, I meant everyone that is not white. People from all over the world. She was having none of it. I asked a Black friend the following weekend re is he Black or coloured and what’s the difference. He said to him there is no difference, to others it means a lot. He said it’s how it is said that he knows if folk are being ignorant/ rascist or not.
Now that adoption course took four years to complete. During the first meeting with the social worker she went onto explain about black people there culture and food. She mentioned they eat chicken, rice and peas. By the end of the course we were told we were not to mention black people eat chicken, rice and peas as it “ type casts” people. What was acceptable and what was not changed over the course of four years. It was frustratin.
For me there is racism in this country, but there is also, sexism, nepotism, Gay bashing ( why can people still in 2020 not come out as gay for fear of abuse) Etc etc. The list is long with what is wrong in this and other countries. Because a person may not know the correct terminology I don’t think it don’t makes them rascist. Anywhere in between naive to ignorant to rascist yes. But as I have said, this problem will not be solved by taking a knee, it will highlight them problem. But for me Racism and other problems in this country should be taught at school and especially at home.
		
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I don’t disagree Tash, it’s a very dificult subject, especially if you are white and know no difference.

I was an EO, E&D Advisor for nearly 20yrs and struggled at times to understand some of the complaints across the spectrum, but it soon became clear that if you are unsure, say nothing or at the very least ask the person.

Of course we have racists we always will, but ignorance is no excuse, it’s about knowing your audience.

If you ever get the chance to meet @Hobbit ask him for his experiences.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 9, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t disagree Tash, it’s a very dificult subject, especially if you are white and know no difference.

I was an EO, E&D Advisor for nearly 20yrs and struggled at times to understand some of the complaints across the spectrum, but it soon became clear that if you are unsure, say nothing or at the very least ask the person.

Of course we have racists we always will, but ignorance is no excuse, it’s about knowing your audience.

If you ever get the chance to meet @Hobbit ask him for his experiences.
		
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Like I mentioned I never knew many Black lads at the pit, until I worked at my last one. Two lads I became great friends with. 
One, I went to a Christmas do the first year I started at the pit. His Missis said to me “ you don’t recognise me do you Tash”. I honestly didn’t. Turns out I went out on a couple of dates with her around the exact same time I met Missis T. I dumped her for Missis T. His face was a picture when she told him and we still laugh about it. His only problem is, he is a Utd season ticket holder. Joking aside we have spent hours talking about football.
Second lad he is half Jamaican and his mother white, he is also gay. The abuse he suffered at the pit was unreal. Don’t get me wrong he gave it back. I worked on the same shift as him for 8-9 years and we spoke daily. He more than anyone I know educated me more re rascism and gay abuse. Don’t get me wrong I sowed seeds ( not sown me seed 😉) with him. We kinda bounced off one another. His experiences whilst on Holiday in Jamaica has stopped him from ever going back.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t think it should be left to just schools, parents have an important role in educating there children.
		
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You've got a point, its not just upto schools to teach but i think you missed the point Tashy. 

If I'm of racist/homophobic persuasion and I call xxxx person xxxxxx around my home and children they will only repeat it or think its acceptable to do so. 

Until parents take responsibility it'll continue.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 9, 2020)

Loving the clock on the PSG v Istanbul Champions League game on the BBC website........


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 9, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Loving the clock on the PSG v Istanbul Champions League game on the BBC website........

View attachment 33894

Click to expand...

They've changed it.....




Now I've got no idea what minute they're in.


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## fundy (Dec 9, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			They've changed it.....

View attachment 33895


Now I've got no idea what minute they're in.
		
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3-0 up after 40 mins


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## Tashyboy (Dec 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You've got a point, its not just upto schools to teach but i think you missed the point Tashy.

If I'm of racist/homophobic persuasion and I call xxxx person xxxxxx around my home and children they will only repeat it or think its acceptable to do so.

Until parents take responsibility it'll continue.
		
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No I picked up what you meant Stu, and am sure there are still plenty of Alf Garnetts walking about educating folk 😣. When we had the kids through the lockdown Missis T was headmistress, she/ we spent hours schooling them. When we returned the kids back to school the teachers made a point of mentioning only a handful did there home schoolwork. Some parents were just not bothered ( not my words). Unfortunately some of these parents teach there kids to follow Utd as well. Poor kids are gonna be scared for life.  Notice how I got the topic back onto football😁😉
Stay safe Stu.


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## IainP (Dec 9, 2020)

Whilst it would be against instincts, if the goalkeeper had just left it to go in would the goal have not stood?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/55239103


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2020)

I’m even more confused by VAR now ?! He was offside yet they reviewed for a penalty 🤦‍♂️

Seems they don’t show the offside and they made the right call 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2020)

8 mins extra time - mainly because of VAR delays 

I guess that hit Manes arm but looked like the oppo ?!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m even more confused by VAR now ?! He was offside yet they reviewed for a penalty 🤦‍♂️

Seems they don’t show the offside and they made the right call 👍
		
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Very selective picture to show he was onside.
Took them a very long time so couldn’t have been that close.

Some strange reffing decisions ,obvious fouls just ignored on both sides.
Yet really trivial things he blows up.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m even more confused by VAR now ?! He was offside yet they reviewed for a penalty 🤦‍♂️

Seems they don’t show the offside and they made the right call 👍
		
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Classic Internet fan 😳🤦‍♂️
Stick to FIFA on PlayStation Phil


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## Orikoru (Dec 9, 2020)

IainP said:



			Whilst it would be against instincts, if the goalkeeper had just left it to go in would the goal have not stood?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/55239103

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Correct, you can't score directly from a throw. However, there are still guys running in at the back post to attack so maybe it would have been bundled in off one of them anyway. There was some pace on that throw! Impressive. I can't see one of them without remembering that Iranian player who totally buggered it up at the World Cup though.  What a knob!


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## fundy (Dec 9, 2020)

not quite sure how Gladbach have qualified there lol, got well beat by Madrid which meant whoever won out of Inter and Salzburg went through with Madrid. Salzburg seemed happy enough to go to the Europa and Inter just couldnt score, the 0-0 draw meant Gladbach went thru


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...ial-centre-PSG-Istanbul-race-allegations.html

I love John Barnes. He is always so sensible with race issues. Whenever there is an 'incident' that sounds like it might have been blown out of proportion, he always seems to be the voice of reason.


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## davemc1 (Dec 10, 2020)

You cannot refer to someone by their colour, it’s as simple as that. The 4th official should know an be better than that.


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## Beezerk (Dec 10, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			You cannot refer to someone by their colour, it’s as simple as that. The 4th official should know an be better than that.
		
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So I'm not a white man?
Just playing devils advocate btw.


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## Old Skier (Dec 10, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			You cannot refer to someone by their colour, it’s as simple as that. The 4th official should know an be better than that.
		
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That’s progress, once we had to say coloured, then it went to black/white now it’s gone to ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			That’s progress, once we had to say coloured, then it went to black/white now it’s gone to ?
		
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Just anything else. 4th from the left, long hair, short hair, one with the training bib on, hands in his pockets. There will always be another option. 

The 4th official was incredibly clumsy to pick out a player by skin colour, I hope I am being kind there.


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## davemc1 (Dec 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			So I'm not a white man?
Just playing devils advocate btw.
		
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This is the sort of reply I’d expect from a white lives matter supporter 🙄


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## Beezerk (Dec 10, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			This is the sort of reply I’d expect from a white lives matter supporter 🙄
		
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Dosser 🤦


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			You cannot refer to someone by their colour, it’s as simple as that. The 4th official should know an be better than that.
		
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Utter nonsense. If I'm describing someone's appearance without judgement or bias then I'm going to tell you he's black if he's black. How the hell can that be racist?


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## ger147 (Dec 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Utter nonsense. If I'm describing someone's appearance without judgement or bias then I'm going to tell you he's black if he's black. How the hell can that be racist?
		
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If the assistant manager was white, the 4th official would never, NEVER, EVER have referred to him as "the white guy".  So why bring his skin colour into it just because he's black?


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

ger147 said:



			If the assistant manager was white, the 4th official would never, NEVER, EVER have referred to him as "the white guy".  So why bring his skin colour into it just because he's black?
		
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He would have done if he was the only white guy surrounded by black guys. Saying 'the white guy' if there was 7 white guys would be completely useless. Similarly if all the coaches were black he wouldn't have bothered saying the black guy would he? There was one black guy and 6 or whatever white guys, it was the quickest and most efficient way to describe which one he was identifying. It really is that simple. 

I still respect the team's right to be offended as I think there were some crossed wires with 'negru' being the Romanian word for black, so I still think it was good that they showed solidarity and walked off, given what they believed the situation was. I just hope they don't throw the book at this official as I don't think it would be fair.


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## sunshine (Dec 10, 2020)

ger147 said:



			If the assistant manager was white, the 4th official would never, NEVER, EVER have referred to him as "the white guy".  So why bring his skin colour into it just because he's black?
		
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This.

Describing a person as black is not racist. It's the relevance of whether they are black which is the issue, was it necessary to single out Webo as black? 

If the 4th official was pointing out somebody standing on his own and referred to him as the black guy that is not acceptable. If there were two or more coaches standing next to each other wearing the same clothes, one white one black, and the quickest way to identify him was to say the black one then it's different. I've not got the full picture but it is clear that Webo and others felt it was the former scenario.


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## ger147 (Dec 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He would have done if he was the only white guy surrounded by black guys. Saying 'the white guy' if there was 7 white guys would be completely useless. Similarly if all the coaches were black he wouldn't have bothered saying the black guy would he? There was one black guy and 6 or whatever white guys, it was the quickest and most efficient way to describe which one he was identifying. It really is that simple.

I still respect the team's right to be offended as I think there were some crossed wires with 'negru' being the Romanian word for black, so I still think it was good that they showed solidarity and walked off, given what they believed the situation was. I just hope they don't throw the book at this official as I don't think it would be fair.
		
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He would not have referred to any assistant manager as the "white one".  That never EVER happens, you know it and so do I so let's not pretend it ever happens, it doesn't.

Describing someone by their skin colour is deemed unacceptable, it really IS that simple.


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## Slime (Dec 10, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			You cannot refer to someone by their colour, it’s as simple as that. The 4th official should know an be better than that.
		
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Why not?


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## Kellfire (Dec 10, 2020)

Jack Grealish doing his bit for BLM? Oh dear.


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## Beezerk (Dec 10, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Jack Grealish doing his bit for BLM? Oh dear.
		
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Go on...


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

ger147 said:



			He would not have referred to any assistant manager as the "white one".  That never EVER happens, you know it and so do I so let's not pretend it ever happens, it doesn't.

Describing someone by their skin colour is deemed unacceptable, it really IS that simple.
		
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What are you talking about? If there was one white guy among five or however many black guys you would absolutely refer to him as the white guy. I would, plenty of people would. It's the quickest way to identify who you're talking about in the situation.


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## Kellfire (Dec 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Go on...
		
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Search for him on Twitter. NSFW.


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## ger147 (Dec 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			What are you talking about? If there was one white guy among five or however many black guys you would absolutely refer to him as the white guy. I would, plenty of people would. It's the quickest way to identify who you're talking about in the situation.
		
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I repeat what I said above, it never happens, and I would never say that and it's not acceptable.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			You cannot refer to someone by their colour, it’s as simple as that. The 4th official should know an be better than that.
		
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Totally totally disagree. It was rammed down my neck whilst I was on an adoption course that people are Black not  coloured and that they are proud to be black. If you cannot say Black then what the hell is Black Lives Matter If you cannot say it.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Dosser 🤦
		
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Never had you down as a poor speller 😳😁


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## Reemul (Dec 10, 2020)

ger147 said:



			I repeat what I said above, it never happens, and I would never say that and it's not acceptable.
		
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You can repeat it as much as you like, it doesn't make you correct.


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## ger147 (Dec 10, 2020)

Reemul said:



			You can repeat it as much as you like, it doesn't make you correct.
		
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It does, it NEVER happens.


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

ger147 said:



			It does, it NEVER happens.
		
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Are you on a wind-up?


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## ger147 (Dec 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Are you on a wind-up? 

Click to expand...

Of course not.

Post one example where a referee, assistant referee or 4th official has refereed to a player or member of the back room staff as "the white one".

There are none because it never happens. 👍🏻


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## Slime (Dec 10, 2020)

ger147 said:



			He would not have referred to any assistant manager as the "white one".  That never EVER happens, you know it and so do I so let's not pretend it ever happens, it doesn't.

*Describing someone by their skin colour is deemed unacceptable, it really IS that simple.*

Click to expand...

By whom, exactly?
If someone described me as 'The white guy' I'd have no problem whatsoever.
It's exactly the same as if someone had called me 'The tall guy' or 'The bald guy'.
I think some people are trying to make something out of a situation that didn't really exist.


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Of course not.

Post one example where a referee, assistant referee or 4th official has refereed to a player or member of the back room staff as "the white one".

There are none because it never happens. 👍🏻
		
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Let me just consult my catalogue of all football-based interactions between officials and coaches that have ever happened and I'll get back to you.  Dear me.


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## ger147 (Dec 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			By whom, exactly?
If someone described me as 'The white guy' I'd have no problem whatsoever.
It's exactly the same as if someone had called me 'The tall guy' or 'The bald guy'.
I think some people are trying to make something out of a situation that didn't really exist.
		
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UEFA, hence the re-scheduled game, the investigation and the upcoming 10 game ban for the 4th official involved.


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

ger147 said:



			UEFA, hence the re-scheduled game, the investigation and the upcoming 10 game ban for the 4th official involved.
		
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They had no choice to reschedule because the teams refused to play because of what they alleged to have heard. I think a ban is harsh but they'll obviously take the opportunity to throw the book at him when they've been too lenient on actual racism in the past.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Totally totally disagree. It was rammed down my neck whilst I was on an adoption course that people are Black not  coloured and that they are proud to be black. If you cannot say Black then what the hell is Black Lives Matter If you cannot say it.
		
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I think you've misread his post. I might have but I don't think so.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think you've misread his post. I might have but I don't think so.
		
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I don’t think so LT, he said you cannot describe someone by there skin colour, any skin colour. But it already happens, Especially by the police looking for criminals. In this instance was the 4th official using a derogatory term to describe the guy. I don’t think so. Was he being offensive.I don’t think so. Could he very possibly of described him better. Well we have got to say yes because we don’t want this to happen again. What I don’t want to see is this 4th official used as a scapegoat in what ( Rascism) is a serious matter.


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## sunshine (Dec 10, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Jack Grealish doing his bit for BLM? Oh dear.
		
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 not exactly a looker either


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			By whom, exactly?
If someone described me as 'The white guy' I'd have no problem whatsoever.
It's exactly the same as if someone had called me 'The tall guy' or 'The bald guy'.
I think some people are trying to make something out of a situation that didn't really exist.
		
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It doesn’t matter if you got offended by being called “The White Guy” just like the 4th Official could of singled out a different black footballer and he didn’t take any offence.

This one did, and it is his right to bring the 4th Official to task because he was offended!

Impact!!!!!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t think so LT, he said you cannot describe someone by there skin colour, any skin colour. But it already happens, Especially by the police looking for criminals. In this instance was the 4th official using a derogatory term to describe the guy. I don’t think so. Was he being offensive.I don’t think so. Could he very possibly of described him better. Well we have got to say yes because we don’t want this to happen again. What I don’t want to see is this 4th official used as a scapegoat in what ( Rascism) is a serious matter.
		
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I read this post quite differently, I understand your point 👍.


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## sunshine (Dec 10, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t think so LT, he said you cannot describe someone by there skin colour, any skin colour. But it already happens, *Especially by the police looking for criminals.* In this instance was the 4th official using a derogatory term to describe the guy. I don’t think so. Was he being offensive.I don’t think so. Could he very possibly of described him better. Well we have got to say yes because we don’t want this to happen again. What I don’t want to see is this 4th official used as a scapegoat in what ( Rascism) is a serious matter.
		
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This has the potential to escalate quickly


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It doesn’t matter if you got offended by being called “The White Guy” just like the 4th Official could of singled out a different black footballer and he didn’t take any offence.

This one did, and it is his right to bring the 4th Official to task because he was offended!

Impact!!!!!!
		
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I understand this, but I don't think you can legislate for the most sensitive members of society, I feel like there has to be a line in the sand somewhere. Or else you end up in some quite silly situations where you really don't know what you can say. On a general note, if I was describing someone who was black to another person, and I couldn't say that they were black, it would take them a hell of a lot longer to know who I meant wouldn't it. To my mind saying someone is black is nothing more than a descriptive fact. 

We should probably wrap this up as everyone has their own view on it, but I would say it's hard to judge the official without knowing the _tone_ with which he said it, because even that can change everything. Saying "it was the black man" from a group of coaches is one thing, but an over-zealous "it was the black guy! send off the black guy!" is quite another. That's the information that we're lacking really.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I understand this, but I don't think you can legislate for the most sensitive members of society, I feel like there has to be a line in the sand somewhere. Or else you end up in some quite silly situations where you really don't know what you can say. On a general note, if I was describing someone who was black to another person, and I couldn't say that they were black, it would take them a hell of a lot longer to know who I meant wouldn't it. To my mind saying someone is black is nothing more than a descriptive fact. 

We should probably wrap this up as everyone has their own view on it, but I would say it's hard to judge the official without knowing the _tone_ with which he said it, because even that can change everything. Saying "it was the black man" from a group of coaches is one thing, but an over-zealous "it was the black guy! send off the black guy!" is quite another. That's the information that we're lacking really.
		
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If only football had a simple and easy way of identifying players 

It was number 4 

Ref blows whistle number 4 here

Job done.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I understand this, but I don't think you can legislate for the most sensitive members of society, I feel like there has to be a line in the sand somewhere. Or else you end up in some quite silly situations where you really don't know what you can say. On a general note, if I was describing someone who was black to another person, and I couldn't say that they were black, it would take them a hell of a lot longer to know who I meant wouldn't it. To my mind saying someone is black is nothing more than a descriptive fact.

We should probably wrap this up as everyone has their own view on it, but I would say it's hard to judge the official without knowing the _tone_ with which he said it, because even that can change everything. Saying "it was the black man" from a group of coaches is one thing, but an over-zealous "it was the black guy! send off the black guy!" is quite another. That's the information that we're lacking really.
		
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If we are lacking that information why are so many on here questioning what happened and coming up with scenarios to support their point of view.

ie: If there were 5 people on the bench, 4 white, 1 black, all he had to say was: him in the middle, bloke on the left, 2nd bloke on the right etc.

That’s all he had to say, avoid compromising himself or anyone else.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2020)

sunshine said:



			This has the potential to escalate quickly 

Click to expand...

Deffo on here👍, but again no malice intended.


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## USER1999 (Dec 10, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			If only football had a simple and easy way of identifying players 

It was number 4 

Ref blows whistle number 4 here

Job done.
		
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The guy sent off was a deputy coach. They don't have numbers.


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## USER1999 (Dec 10, 2020)

Cracking strike from Elneny. Who would have known?


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## Fade and Die (Dec 10, 2020)

ger147 said:



			He would not have referred to any assistant manager as the "white one".  That never EVER happens, you know it and so do I so let's not pretend it ever happens, it doesn't.

*Describing someone by their skin colour is deemed unacceptable, it really IS that simple*.
		
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This lot don't seem to mind.......


https://uncf.org/


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## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			If we are lacking that information why are so many on here questioning what happened and coming up with scenarios to support their point of view.

*ie: If there were 5 people on the bench, 4 white, 1 black, all he had to say was: him in the middle, bloke on the left, 2nd bloke on the right etc.

That’s all he had to say, avoid compromising himself or anyone else.*

Click to expand...



This I get and understand as I mentioned in one of me posts. Come what May because we are human we sometimes get things wrong or not quite correct. What it has done is once more opened discussion and education  re Rascism in the same way Millwall fans did the other day, and that can only be a positive.


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## Slime (Dec 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It doesn’t matter if you got offended by being called “The White Guy” just like the 4th Official could of singled out a different black footballer and he didn’t take any offence.

This one did, and it is his right to bring the 4th Official to task because he was offended!

Impact!!!!!!
		
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Offended by being described as 'the black guy' when, inactual fact, he was 'the black guy'!
Where is the offensive bit?


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## Fade and Die (Dec 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			Offended by being described as 'the black guy' when, inactual fact, he was 'the black guy'!
Where is the offensive bit?
		
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Maybe he should of gone with Dude....it's the Black Dude...its the White dude....Asian Dude...Short Dude...Tall Dude, even get away with Fat Dude......Dudes friendly, 😄


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## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			The guy sent off was a deputy coach. They don't have numbers.
		
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What's to stop the official pointing him out .. walking over to him and saying this guy


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			If we are lacking that information why are so many on here questioning what happened and coming up with scenarios to support their point of view.

ie: If there were 5 people on the bench, 4 white, 1 black, all he had to say was: him in the middle, bloke on the left, 2nd bloke on the right etc.

That’s all he had to say, avoid compromising himself or anyone else.
		
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My point was people are judging this guy as a racist based on his words alone, but the words themselves were not racist at all. You could only say he was acting on a racist impulse if you heard the context and tone that he used.


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## Beezerk (Dec 10, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Search for him on Twitter. NSFW.
		
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One of the football lads posted it in our group 😯😅


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			Offended by being described as 'the black guy' when, inactual fact, he was 'the black guy'!
Where is the offensive bit?
		
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Ask him!


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## fundy (Dec 10, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Cracking strike from Elneny. Who would have known?
		
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the lethargy from the 1st team seems to be setting into the thursday night side too sadly

far too much emphasis on shape than there has been in previous weeks, they all look to afraid to make a mistake rather than take a chance going forward meaning it gets slower and slower


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## DanFST (Dec 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Ask him!
		
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That's a dangerous path. Look at Twitter, people get offended by everything on there. 
the word for black didn't help, and its great its got people talking again. But we should wait for an investigation until we brand the guy a racist.


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			What's to stop the official pointing him out .. walking over to him and saying this guy
		
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I think that's probably what he'll do next time... lol.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			My point was people are judging this guy as a racist based on his words alone, but the words themselves were not racist at all. You could only say he was acting on a racist impulse if you heard the context and tone that he used.
		
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It’s an education thing, just as many are saying he isn’t racist, but, if the guy he was speaking to feels it was wrong for using the colour of his skin to single him out, then surely he has a right to speak up?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 10, 2020)

Another good player dies https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55248469


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2020)

DanFST said:



			That's a dangerous path. Look at Twitter, people get offended by everything on there.
the word for black didn't help, and its great its got people talking again. But we should wait for an investigation until we brand the guy a racist.
		
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Not once have I said he’s a racist, what some on here don’t like is accepting that we are all different and just because they don’t see it or accept it then it’s not right.

I don’t really care who is or isn’t offended, I’ll try my best to treat others as equal and you or anyone else having a different opinion to me, doesn’t make me or them, right or wrong.


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s an education thing, just as many are saying he isn’t racist, but, if the guy he was speaking to feels it was wrong for using the colour of his skin to single him out, then surely he has a right to speak up?
		
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Of course he had the right to speak up at the time, and it's great that the other players backed him/them up. I just suspect their offence taken may have been worsened by the language barrier, unless the official's tone was aggressive as I mentioned earlier.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Of course he had the right to speak up at the time, and it's great that the other players backed him/them up. I just suspect their offence taken may have been worsened by the language barrier, unless the official's tone was aggressive as I mentioned earlier.
		
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I’ll leave that to the inquiry, but sadly UEFA have an awful history of taking positive action and thst’s why these thing still occur at the top level.


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## fundy (Dec 10, 2020)

Balogun looking impressive again tonight, surprise surprise theres another contract negotiation Arsenal have repeatedly screwed up over the last year or two


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## Slime (Dec 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Ask him!
		
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I can't, I don't know him but a black guy I know, and spoke to, agrees with John Barnes.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			I can't, I don't know him but a black guy I know, and spoke to, agrees with John Barnes.
		
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No way you’re a racist then if you have a black friend.


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## Beezerk (Dec 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No way you’re a racist then if you have a black friend.

Click to expand...

Post of the year 🤣👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Post of the year 🤣👍
		
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Just a bit of fun to lighten the mood.
Hopefully it’ll be taken in the right spirit😬


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## Slime (Dec 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No way you’re a racist then if you have a black friend.

Click to expand...

I can't be .............................. colour isn't a race.
Do you think I'm colour prejudiced?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			I can't be .............................. colour isn't a race.
Do you think I'm colour prejudiced?
		
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Absolutely, certainly against the red half of Merseyside.


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## Slime (Dec 11, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Absolutely, certainly against the red half of Merseyside.

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Oh yes, I'll definitely give you that.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

Didn't look off the line but fair enough

No look at the Leeds players in the box when the pen was scored though?

Should have been taken a 3rd time


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

Yeah defo not in the box


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## DanFST (Dec 11, 2020)

Haller might be the worst player I've ever seen in Claret and Blue and i've watched Savio grace the hallowed turf.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Haller might be the worst player I've ever seen in Claret and Blue and i've watched Savio grace the hallowed turf.
		
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If played in the correct system he would be a top player 

Not the striker we need but the one the Dave's provided.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			If played in the correct system he would be a top player

Not the striker we need but the one the Dave's provided.
		
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Nah not for me, he was shocking that half. Couldn’t do anything right. Must have lost the ball 7/8 times.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Didn't look off the line but fair enough

No look at the Leeds players in the box when the pen was scored though?

Should have been taken a 3rd time
		
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There were also West Ham players in the box on both pens.


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## DanFST (Dec 11, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Nah not for me, he was shocking that half. Couldn’t do anything right. Must have lost the ball 7/8 times.
		
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Watch his leads the second half. Jogs straight down the middle pulling no defenders anywhere.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			There were also West Ham players in the box on both pens.
		
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Should have been taken again then

Sky with some rubbish excuse about him not interfering yet this is the fa official ruling?


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## BiMGuy (Dec 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 33921


Should have been taken again then

Sky with some rubbish excuse about him not interfering yet this is the fa official ruling?
		
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Encroachment is never used if a pen is scored


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## Fade and Die (Dec 11, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Watch his leads the second half. Jogs straight down the middle pulling no defenders anywhere.
		
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It’s not like he’s being asked to play an Andy Carol role, Bowen, Fornels and Benrahma have been slotting passes in for him but his touch is awful.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Encroachment is never used if a pen is scored
		
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Which is wrong as by the law it should be


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

Shame Haller just can't buy a goal

Overhead kick.. great save from keeper


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Shame Haller just can't buy a goal

Overhead kick.. great save from keeper
		
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wouldve been offside from VAR if hed scored anyway 

West Ham been impressive


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## BiMGuy (Dec 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Shame Haller just can't buy a goal

Overhead kick.. great save from keeper
		
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Leeds U16 keeper has made a few great saves tonight.
Most of the rest of the team have been awful against pretty poor team.
Easily the worst Leeds performance of the season.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Leeds U16 keeper has made a few great saves tonight.
Most of the rest of the team have been awful against pretty poor team.
Easily the worst Leeds performance of the season.
		
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Not sure what game you watched but all over them like a rash. Should have been 4-1


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## DanFST (Dec 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not sure what game you watched but all over them like a rash. Should have been 4-1
		
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To Leeds!? I’ll have what your smoking!


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not sure what game you watched but all over them like a rash. Should have been 4-1
		
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same game different tints


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Leeds U16 keeper has made a few great saves tonight.
Most of the rest of the team have been awful against pretty poor team.
Easily the worst Leeds performance of the season.
		
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He should have saved the first goal though.
WH played really well and deserved winners .


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

DanFST said:



			To Leeds!? I’ll have what your smoking!
		
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1-4 ofc then 

Our forwards are too selfish 

Bowen and said trying to play like kids on FIFA 

Just finish


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## DanFST (Dec 11, 2020)

If we had a centre forward, that would have been a battering.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not sure what game you watched but all over them like a rash. Should have been 4-1
		
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Second half maybe. 
They had their chances in the first half.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

DanFST said:



			If we had a centre forward, that would have been a battering.
		
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If they shared it to him he would score

Did you not see his overhead?


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## pendodave (Dec 11, 2020)

Nice to win, but Leeds looked pretty poor tbh. Are there going to be 3 worse teams at the end of the season?
Unusual not to be thinking that about us...


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

Since Antonio got injured (bar an awful 45 mins against villa where he shouldn't have played) we have won 4 games now

That's a massive positive for me. Shows we can play without him however when he back it will be good


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## DanFST (Dec 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			If they shared it to him he would score

Did you not see his overhead?
		
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I did, he was looking directly at the closest defender. There was 0 need to overhead. 

I also saw him ruin every touch in the box, and have an unmarked header that almost bounced off his feet. Defensively his headers were very good, and his first touch neat the halfway line incredible. Confidence is shot.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

DanFST said:



			I did, he was looking directly at the closest defender. There was 0 need to overhead. 

I also saw him ruin every touch in the box, and have an unmarked header that almost bounced off his feet. Defensively his headers were very good, and his first touch neat the halfway line incredible. Confidence is shot.
		
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Confidence keeps getting destroyed 

Goal at Sheffield United will have boosted it but that slip will have ruined it all


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## DanFST (Dec 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Confidence keeps getting destroyed

Goal at Sheffield United will have boosted it but that slip will have ruined it all
		
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Moyes feels exactly as i do. 

Did Haller do everything tonight but score? "Uhhhhh....."


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Nice to win, but Leeds looked pretty poor tbh. Are there going to be 3 worse teams at the end of the season?
Unusual not to be thinking that about us...
		
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Theres more than 3 for sure

Actually think 2nd half of the season may be a struggle for Leeds, the high tempo game has to suffer as the season goes on having had no real pre season. Should still be more than safe though


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## BiMGuy (Dec 11, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Nice to win, but Leeds looked pretty poor tbh. Are there going to be 3 worse teams at the end of the season?
Unusual not to be thinking that about us...
		
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That was the worst Leeds have played this season by a long way. Like I said, we managed to make West Ham look half decent in the second half. We just weren't at it tonight for some reason.
We've had games like this occasionally.
We'll be OK.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 11, 2020)

fundy said:



			Theres more than 3 for sure

Actually think 2nd half of the season may be a struggle for Leeds, the high tempo game has to suffer as the season goes on having had no real pre season. Should still be more than safe though
		
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People keep saying this. We've played at this tempo for two long sessions in the championship. Yest the PL is faster, but the Championship is more physical. The tempo isn't the problem. Defending set pieces with our two best central defenders out injured is.


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			People keep saying this. We've played at this tempo for two long sessions in the championship. Yest the PL is faster, but the Championship is more physical. The tempo isn't the problem. Defending set pieces with our two best central defenders out injured is.
		
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we'll see, think the lack of pre season will show things up (it will at arsenal where we have one of the least fit sides in the prem!)

every side has injuries, depth of squad and protecting them going to be more important than ever this season


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## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2020)

I was surprised his poor Leeds were from set pieces .. the championship Is a strong league surely they knew and would address?

Too many stupid free kicks given away 

Costa cost the game if you will


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## Orikoru (Dec 12, 2020)

Second week in a row I've left Soucek on my fantasy bench and he's bloody scored. I'll put him back in and he won't score in 6 months now.


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## 4LEX (Dec 12, 2020)

I'd be worried if I was a Leeds fan. They've been really poor for a month or so now and the lack of a striker is so obvious. Bamford is a Championship striker at best, even then he's a 1 in 3 player. You can't fault the way they play or the effort but they've got nothing upfront and will get done at set pieces every week.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 12, 2020)




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## Orikoru (Dec 12, 2020)

4LEX said:



			I'd be worried if I was a Leeds fan. They've been really poor for a month or so now and the lack of a striker is so obvious. Bamford is a Championship striker at best, even then he's a 1 in 3 player. You can't fault the way they play or the effort but they've got nothing upfront and will get done at set pieces every week.
		
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I mean they signed Rodrigo who was a reasonable La Liga striker. Although his goal record isn't great either, I think more of a winger maybe. I think this might be a Bielsa problem, he really likes flexible players so he can change formations a lot, but that means no out-and-out striker really. Bamford does have 8 goals in 11 games, which is pretty good, even if it includes a hat-trick against whoever it was. I think he's a bit like a poor man's Giroud, with a good all round game and a nice touch just will miss quite a few good chances as well (and not as good in the air as Giroud even though he is just as tall).


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## BiMGuy (Dec 12, 2020)

4LEX said:



			I'd be worried if I was a Leeds fan. They've been really poor for a month or so now and the lack of a striker is so obvious. Bamford is a Championship striker at best, even then he's a 1 in 3 player. You can't fault the way they play or the effort but they've got nothing upfront and will get done at set pieces every week.
		
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I'm not worried.
We were miles better than Arsenal, we're comfortable against Everton. We were well beaten by Chelsea, but did have spells early on in that game where we played OK. Considering the cost of their squad I wouldn't have expected to get anything against them. 
We were poor last night without our two first choice central defenders. Just one of those games.


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## Orikoru (Dec 12, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			I'm not worried.
We were miles better than Arsenal, we're comfortable against Everton. We were well beaten by Chelsea, but did have spells early on in that game where we played OK. Considering the cost of their squad I wouldn't have expected to get anything against them.
We were poor last night without our two first choice central defenders. Just one of those games.
		
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Leeds will be fine. It already looks like 3 from 4 to go down. One of them will go on a run with a new manager or something as what normally happens, and someone else will get dragged in, like Brighton or Arsenal (hehe). Or I could see Palace or Newcastle dropping in rather than Leeds to be honest, I think they have enough about them.


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## fundy (Dec 12, 2020)

Good to see Mike Dean getting his Christmas cards sorted early


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2020)

fundy said:



			Good to see Mike Dean getting his Christmas cards sorted early
		
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That last one was pathetic, barely touched him and he booked him.


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## fundy (Dec 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That last one was pathetic, barely touched him and he booked him.
		
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a lot of them were lol, cant complain as a card backer though 

Dean reffing a so called derby a great way to start a saturday haha


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## pauljames87 (Dec 12, 2020)

Wba are going down 

Unless they get rid of bilic asap. He is an awful manager .. one good season for us (all because of a super star player in our team) after that awful 

For a defender how he can't set up a basic defence is amazing


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## Orikoru (Dec 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Wba are going down

Unless they get rid of bilic asap. He is an awful manager .. one good season for us (all because of a super star player in our team) after that awful

For a defender how he can't set up a basic defence is amazing
		
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Oh do you not rate Bilic? I don't think you've mentioned that.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 12, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Oh do you not rate Bilic? I don't think you've mentioned that.
		
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Sorry but he is a terrible coach 

Payet made him look amazing 

Payet got injured we barely won a game

Came back suddenly top form again 

We let in so many goals under bilic but won games like 3-2

Great to watch but how on earth can't a defender set up a defence?

When we got Hernandez he ended up playing him as a winger rather than a striker trying to shoe horn Carroll in the team

A lovely bloke and very smart out of football 

But as a manager . Below average.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2020)

Expected more from this Yernited v City game. 

Hope the 2nd half is better


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## Slime (Dec 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Expected more from this Yernited v City game.

Hope the 2nd half is better
		
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The first half went much better than I expected!


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## Slime (Dec 12, 2020)

Oh, disappointed to see Pogba playing, he shouldn't even be in the match day squad in my opinion.


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## Dando (Dec 12, 2020)

I think sky should rename this evenings football as sleepy Saturday 😴😴😴😴


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## Orikoru (Dec 12, 2020)

Well that was bloody awful.


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## Dando (Dec 12, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well that was bloody awful.
		
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That’s being generous!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 12, 2020)

That was a shocking Manchester derby. Not sure either side can really take too much away from that. United looked content not to lose and City looked short of ideas to break them down. The penalty that wasn't arguably the highlight of the game


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## 4LEX (Dec 12, 2020)

Pep at City is finished. That's not a Pep side, he know's he's done. Rhodrigo is a slower version of Matic and he's years younger. 

That was the worst I've seen City in 4 years and even then they were the better side and had the better chances. Utd really are a mess. That's home games against City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal with 1 goal scored! Third rate.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 13, 2020)

Fabulous display by Everton, a real team effort. Not sure how long we can keep flogging DCL without giving him a break though. 

Pickford got away with a few still. Hopefully Carlo took note and will install the new guy next match. We can't keep getting away with it.

Lots of positives though after some wobbly games.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fabulous display by Everton, a real team effort. Not sure how long we can keep flogging DCL without giving him a break though.

*Pickford got away with a few still.* Hopefully Carlo took note and will install the new guy next match. We can't keep getting away with it.

Lots of positives though after some wobbly games.
		
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He's a liability. 

Thought on the balance of play (Chelsea hitting the post twice)it was a fortunate win but Everton just done enough to win. 

I even had a few quid on them at @7/2 so they've paid for my wine on Xmas day 😉


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## Tashyboy (Dec 13, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Pep at City is finished. That's not a Pep side, he know's he's done. Rhodrigo is a slower version of Matic and he's years younger.

That was the worst I've seen City in 4 years and even then they were the better side and had the better chances. Utd really are a mess. That's home games against City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal with 1 goal scored! Third rate.
		
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What I don’t get is Pep playing Rodri and Fernandinho. But that aside we look solid in defence and Stones has finally turned up. MOTD hit the nail on the head once more. City are converting 10% of chances. That’s shocking, but I mentioned that months ago. That’s down to the players, not Pep.

Re Utd I can remember going to games and City would be annihilated by them. They look a shadow of the team they were.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He's a liability.

Thought on the balance of play (Chelsea hitting the post twice)it was a fortunate win but Everton just done enough to win.

I even had a few quid on them at @7/2 so they've paid for my wine on Xmas day 😉
		
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Yes he is. Carlo played the new guy once, he looked calm and commanding. I don't know why he didn't keep him in.

You bet on us to win 😲. Just remember that's Everton wine when you are drinking it on Christmas day 😆


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yes he is. Carlo played the new guy once, he looked calm and commanding. I don't know why he didn't keep him in.

You bet on us to win 😲. Just remember that's Everton wine when you are drinking it on Christmas day 😆
		
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Watched it yesterday and was a very good game.
Everton really stopped Chelsea playing in the final third with some great defending.
But one thing struck me ,how easy the players went down with the slightest touch.
Both were looking for fouls at every opportunity.
Calvert Lewen is really looking like a top striker .


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## Slime (Dec 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			What I don’t get is Pep playing Rodri and Fernandinho. But that aside we look solid in defence and Stones has finally turned up. MOTD hit the nail on the head once more. City are converting 10% of chances. That’s shocking, but I mentioned that months ago. That’s down to the players, not Pep.

*Re Utd I can remember going to games and City would be annihilated by them. They look a shadow of the team they were.*

Click to expand...

We are, no doubt, so how are we above you in the Prem?
Utd have generally been shocking, we can all agree on that, but we're still very much in touch.
Are all teams really inconsistent, if so, is it due to there being no supporters at the grounds?
I really am confused as to why United are where they are.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yes he is. Carlo played the new guy once, he looked calm and commanding. I don't know why he didn't keep him in.

You bet on us to win 😲. Just remember that's Everton wine when you are drinking it on Christmas day 😆
		
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I have no limits when it comes to gambling. 

Can you recommend me a bitter Malbec😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I have no limits when it comes to gambling.

Can you recommend me a bitter Malbec😂😂
		
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Sadly red wine is not my drink, not football related it just isn't my drink. However,  I believe something around the £3 mark should be suitably eye watering 😂


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## Orikoru (Dec 13, 2020)

We've been crap. This backs to the wall stuff is fine against City and Chelsea, but Palace? No, they'll do you with a set piece like they have done. We needed to get hold of the flipping ball and control the game. Absolutely woeful performance.


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## Jensen (Dec 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			We've been crap. This backs to the wall stuff is fine against City and Chelsea, but Palace? No, they'll do you with a set piece like they have done. We needed to get hold of the flipping ball and control the game. Absolutely woeful performance.
		
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You must’ve watched a different game, it was hardly a backs to the wall job! Certainly a Tottenham performance that surprised me. 
First half totally dominated possession and creativity, right on the front foot from the off, how it should be.
Second half first 10 minutes was alright, but then Palace, as you would expect came at us. This is the key moment when things need to change with the shape. This 20 minute period saw a swing in the game and momentum.
Palace keeper was superb, despite an error that led to the goal. He pulled off a string of great saves and was Man of the Match.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

Liverpool fans not moaning about VAR today then


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 13, 2020)

Disagree with the Sky commentators. That should've been a penalty for Fulham.


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## chrisd (Dec 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			We've been crap. This backs to the wall stuff is fine against City and Chelsea, but Palace? No, they'll do you with a set piece like they have done. We needed to get hold of the flipping ball and control the game. Absolutely woeful performance.
		
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Rubbish  - you were best first half and we were second half, keeper for us did well


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 13, 2020)

That'll get disallowed for the push on Salah.

EDIT - glad I got that one wrong. Salah made a meal of it.


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## Orikoru (Dec 13, 2020)

Jensen said:



			You must’ve watched a different game, it was hardly a backs to the wall job! Certainly a Tottenham performance that surprised me.
First half totally dominated possession and creativity, right on the front foot from the off, how it should be.
Second half first 10 minutes was alright, but then Palace, as you would expect came at us. This is the key moment when things need to change with the shape. This 20 minute period saw a swing in the game and momentum.
Palace keeper was superb, despite an error that led to the goal. He pulled off a string of great saves and was Man of the Match.
		
Click to expand...

First half was absolutely fine, then second half at only 1-0 up we took our foot off the gas and sat back when we should have been controlling the game by keeping the ball. The second half was shocking. We didn't start playing again until we conceded.


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## Beezerk (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Disagree with the Sky commentators. That should've been a penalty for Fulham.
		
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Thought it was a pen all day long that one.
Carragher is an embarrassment, worst football pundit ever.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Thought it was a pen all day long that one.
Carragher is an embarrassment, worst football pundit ever.
		
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imagine the commentary if it had been Andersen on Salah at the other end lol


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 13, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Thought it was a pen all day long that one.
Carragher is an embarrassment, worst football pundit ever.
		
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I agree. Fabinho kicked the Fulham players foot into the ball. It was either a penalty or a goal kick. Absolutely no way it could have been a corner. 

And then the commentators making excuses for the Liverpool performance...."it's their 21st match of the season"......."they've had to travel in the Champions League" etc. What a load of crap.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			That'll get disallowed for the push on Salah.

EDIT - glad I got that one wrong. Salah made a meal of it.
		
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Salah jumps and attempts to play the ball we might not be 1-0 down. Lazy and weak, that. 

Two words to sum up the whole of our first half. Lucky to only be 1 down. Could easily be 3+ were it not for the best keeper in the league.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			That'll get disallowed for the push on Salah.

EDIT - glad I got that one wrong. Salah made a meal of it.
		
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It’s still a push in his back ,both hands.
Very soft yes but the ball then hits Salha and rebounds to a op player.
Shows what happens if you don’t go down when fouled.
Got what we deserved we have been woeful.
TAA looks scared of Lookman.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Salah jumps and attempts to play the ball we might not be 1-0 down. Lazy and weak, that.

Two words to sum up the whole of our first half. Lucky to only be 1 down. Could easily be 3+ were it not for the best keeper in the league.
		
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Salha would not win a tackle with a wet paper bag.
It’s one of the reasons I can’t understand why he comes back for corners .
He should be on the halfway line making them mark him.
He closes down but never puts his foot in.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 13, 2020)




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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

so disappointing to see Arteta pick the same old side in the prem league despite whats happening and how some of the kids have performed on Thursday nights

how many more times does he need to see the likes of Xhaka, Willian and Lacazette, look forward to us having 50 crosses against Burnley lol


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## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2020)

I think I am going to give this one a miss. 

Is Arteta trying to get sacked, because it really looks like it.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			I think I am going to give this one a miss.

Is Arteta trying to get sacked, because it really looks like it.
		
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Obviously hes inherited a dud squad but surely hes got to try something else rather than the same old failures. How Xhaka is still the first midfielder on the sheet each week ill never understand. Wouldve liked to see Smith Rowe, AMN and Nelson all get a game


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2020)

rubbish game , not at the races today and scraped a point


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

Well played Fulham .
Best side first half by a mile.
Tactics were spot on second half ,we struggle to break teams down who sit back.
Think we were a tad fortunate could have played all day and not scored.
Hendo got to score there.


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## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2020)

For sure, I am sick of seeing Xhaka, Luiz, Willian, Lacazette, and to an extend Bellerin. It's time to move on. I have seen that picture, and know how it ends.

I don't get how they rejected a 20m offer for AMN, but still won't play him. Elneny has surprised me this season, so I would give him time, and I'd like to see Pepe get a 10 game run to either dig himself a hole, or thrive.

Mustafi, Ozil, are done too, and really not sure about Leno.

Auba has time, with the right formation around him.

On the plus side, I really like Gabriel, Tierney, and Partey. Give them a go with the Hale Enders, and let's see where it leads.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2020)

*BUGGER*


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			That'll get disallowed for the push on Salah.

EDIT - glad I got that one wrong. Salah made a meal of it.
		
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Regardless of how stupid Salah looked, it was a foul. It was a foul because he stopped Salah from making a fair challenge to win the ball. 

We've all seen "stonewall" pens given for exactly the same.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			For sure, I am sick of seeing Xhaka, Luiz, Willian, Lacazette, and to an extend Bellerin. It's time to move on. I have seen that picture, and know how it ends.

I don't get how they rejected a 20m offer for AMN, but still won't play him. Elneny has surprised me this season, so I would give him time, and I'd like to see Pepe get a 10 game run to either dig himself a hole, or thrive.

Mustafi, Ozil, are done too, and really not sure about Leno.

Auba has time, with the right formation around him.

On the plus side, I really like Gabriel, Tierney, and Partey. Give them a go with the Hale Enders, and let's see where it leads.
		
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agree with all of that tbh, Pepe got to wait till his suspension finished mind

whats the deal with Saliba? 27m and Arteta has basically intimated he'll never pick him and hes likely off in January and permanently in the summer


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

We were dogshit from the 1st whistle, slow, lethargic, not even close to winning 2nd and 3rd balls. 

Only positive for me was the performance of Curtis Jones. Classy.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Regardless of how stupid Salah looked, it was a foul. It was a foul because he stopped Salah from making a fair challenge to win the ball.

We've all seen "stonewall" pens given for exactly the same.
		
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Yes agree.
How hard does a push have to be to be a foul?
A push is a push.!
We were told to just shove the striker as he is jumping that unbalances them.
The ref had the perfect view so not good very inconsistent.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			We were dogshit from the 1st whistle, slow, lethargic, not even close to winning 2nd and 3rd balls.

*Only positive for me was the performance of Curtis Jones. Classy*.
		
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bit harsh on Marriner, thought he had a cracker for you


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			bit harsh on Marriner, thought he had a cracker for you 

Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣 there's a 1st for everything 😉


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## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			agree with all of that tbh, Pepe got to wait till his suspension finished mind

whats the deal with Saliba? 27m and Arteta has basically intimated he'll never pick him and hes likely off in January and permanently in the summer
		
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Re Pepe, yeah, I was looking forwards in general. He still needs to pay the price for being an idiot.

Saliba, no idea. He has the build, the athleticism, and given the price, I would like to see him play a bit before binning him off. Got to be better than Luiz, Mustafi, Socratis, and could easily be better than Chambers and Holding, although again, I think they are OK squad players, and may get better.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			bit harsh on Marriner, thought he had a cracker for you 

Click to expand...

Two wrongs don’t make a right!
He got the pen for Fulham wrong.
He got the push on Salah wrong


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## GreiginFife (Dec 13, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Re Pepe, yeah, I was looking forwards in general. He still needs to pay the price for being an idiot.

Saliba, no idea. He has the build, the athleticism, and given the price, I would like to see him play a bit before binning him off. Got to be better than Luiz, Mustafi, Socratis, and could easily be better than Chambers and Holding, although again, I think they are OK squad players, and may get better.
		
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Is there not some undisclosed off field stuff with Saliba? Culminated with a red for the U21's?
Not 100% sure on that but sure I read it somewhere.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Re Pepe, yeah, I was looking forwards in general. He still needs to pay the price for being an idiot.

Saliba, no idea. He has the build, the athleticism, and given the price, I would like to see him play a bit before binning him off. Got to be better than Luiz, Mustafi, Socratis, and could easily be better than Chambers and Holding, although again, I think they are OK squad players, and may get better.
		
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Just seems that Arteta has a line for the younger players and as soon as they get the wrong side of it thats it, whereas certain untouchables can do as they please and continue to be picked week after week

Expectation levels as low as they can be for Burnley at home says it all sadly


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Regardless of how stupid Salah looked, it was a foul. It was a foul because he stopped Salah from making a fair challenge to win the ball.

We've all seen "stonewall" pens given for exactly the same.
		
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I disagree. Salah didn't have any intention to make a challenge to win the ball. If he had he would have made an attempt to jump. He was looking for contact to get the foul and I'm glad that it wasn't given. Maybe in the future he'll actually try to win the ball rather than trying to win a foul.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			Is there not some undisclosed off field stuff with Saliba? Culminated with a red for the U21's?
Not 100% sure on that but sure I read it somewhere.
		
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yeah he got sent off for 2 yellows for the U23s in the week, been plenty of rumours off the field though none substantiated


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## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			Just seems that Arteta has a line for the younger players and as soon as they get the wrong side of it thats it, whereas certain untouchables can do as they please and continue to be picked week after week

Expectation levels as low as they can be for Burnley at home says it all sadly
		
Click to expand...

About to go and cook dinner. A nice meal, some red wine, and then who cares about the footy. Sadly, not me.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			About to go and cook dinner. A nice meal, some red wine, and then who cares about the footy. Sadly, not me.
		
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Dinners on, white for me, glutton for punishment though with the footie


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## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2020)

Oh, and @fundy, yesterday was a beautiful day down on the South Coast. Went for lunch at the Bankes Arms. As December days go, flipping awesome.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I disagree. *Salah didn't have any intention to make a challenge to win the ball.* *If he had he would have made an attempt to jump*. He was looking for contact to get the foul and I'm glad that it wasn't given. Maybe in the future he'll actually try to win the ball rather than trying to win a foul.
		
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He had his eyes on the ball, if he'd have jumped when you're saying he should, he'd have missed the ball. It was very clever from the Fulham player, little push stopping him from jumping. 

Even if he was looking for the foul, it was still a blatant push and a foul. 

I'll leave it there because we both disagree


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I disagree. Salah didn't have any intention to make a challenge to win the ball. If he had he would have made an attempt to jump. He was looking for contact to get the foul and I'm glad that it wasn't given. Maybe in the future he'll actually try to win the ball rather than trying to win a foul.
		
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He pushed him - made a meal of it etc etc but he still pushed him which is a foul at the end of the day , he made contact using his hands to push him , may have been looking for the contact etc but the Fulham player complied. If that happens to someone in the penalty area then the ref gives a penalty. It’s a foul - however soft it may be


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 13, 2020)

H


ColchesterFC said:



			I disagree. Salah didn't have any intention to make a challenge to win the ball. If he had he would have made an attempt to jump. He was looking for contact to get the foul and I'm glad that it wasn't given. Maybe in the future he'll actually try to win the ball rather than trying to win a foul.
		
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He’s probably the worst player currently playing in the prem for it.
Does it wk in wk out.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 13, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He pushed him - made a meal of it etc etc but he still pushed him which is a foul at the end of the day , he made contact using his hands to push him , may have been looking for the contact etc but the Fulham player complied. If that happens to someone in the penalty area then the ref gives a penalty. It’s a foul - however soft it may be
		
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😂😂😂 he plays for any other club there’s no way you’re posting this.
Typical Internet fan 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I disagree. Salah didn't have any intention to make a challenge to win the ball. If he had he would have made an attempt to jump. He was looking for contact to get the foul and I'm glad that it wasn't given. Maybe in the future he'll actually try to win the ball rather than trying to win a foul.
		
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Not seen 99.9% of the Fulham game, but re Salah, him and sterling are 2 peas in a pod. Strong as an ox outside of the box. Jellyfish inside the box.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I disagree. Salah didn't have any intention to make a challenge to win the ball. If he had he would have made an attempt to jump. He was looking for contact to get the foul and I'm glad that it wasn't given. Maybe in the future he'll actually try to win the ball rather than trying to win a foul.
		
Click to expand...

While I agree with you and don't think it's a foul. what's your opinion on Kane's "signature" back into the player in the air while he stays firmly on the deck? 

The one against lallana at Brighton where he got a pen for taking the man in the air out sticks to mind. 

That surely is the  epitome of "winning the foul not the ball"? I know it's different circumstances. And as I say, not a foul on Mo, for me. It's a contact sport and he should be fighting for it


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Not seen 99.9% of the Fulham game, but re Salah, him and sterling are 2 peas in a pod. Strong as an ox outside of the box. Jellyfish inside the box.
		
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Oh dear tashy, this was outside the box 😁


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 13, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			While I agree with you and don't think it's a foul. *what's your opinion on Kane's "signature" back into the player in the air while he stays firmly on the deck?*

The one against lallana at Brighton where he got a pen for taking the man in the air out sticks to mind.

That surely is the  epitome of "winning the foul not the ball"? I know it's different circumstances. And as I say, not a foul on Mo, for me. It's a contact sport and he should be fighting for it
		
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Kane should be penalised and booked for doing it as he has no intention of playing the ball. He watches the opponent and waits for him to jump and then backs in to him. And yet for some reason the refs buy it. I hope I'm wrong but someone is going to get seriously hurt before long by landing awkwardly.


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## Slime (Dec 13, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Oh, and @fundy, yesterday was a beautiful day down on the South Coast. Went for lunch at the *Bankes Arms*. As December days go, flipping awesome.
		
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Is that the pub across the ferry from Sandbanks?
If so, I've spent many an hour in there drinking far too much, and if my memory serves me, they used to have a fantastic juke box with loads of rock music available!
What a pub .............................. if that's the one you're talking about.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Kane should be penalised and booked for doing it as he has no intention of playing the ball. He watches the opponent and waits for him to jump and then backs in to him. And yet for some reason the refs buy it. I hope I'm wrong but someone is going to get seriously hurt before long by landing awkwardly.
		
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Thing is though Kane has done this for a while now .
Just bad reffing ,they don’t know what’s a foul and what isn’t now.


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## Orikoru (Dec 13, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			While I agree with you and don't think it's a foul. what's your opinion on Kane's "signature" back into the player in the air while he stays firmly on the deck?

The one against lallana at Brighton where he got a pen for taking the man in the air out sticks to mind.

That surely is the  epitome of "winning the foul not the ball"? I know it's different circumstances. And as I say, not a foul on Mo, for me. It's a contact sport and he should be fighting for it
		
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The difference is Kane actually got the foul.   Salah's one today was a bit of a flounce, nowhere near enough for a free kick. If you're going to ignore the ball and try and get a free kick, especially on the edge of your own box, then you have to do it properly and make sure you win it.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

Leicester been superb first half, cracking hit from Maddison


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2020)

Didn't want to post during the game given the "Homer jinx" but delighted at the first half performance where we could have had three and on a different day and a different ref had a penalty. Wasn't so happy to sit back as much as we did in the second half but we couldn't have played at the same intensity and would have left gaps and Liverpool are too talented to not exploit them. We have been on an upward curve for a few games. Could do with Arsenal doing us a favour tonight and then a big game on Wednesday at home to Brighton


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## paddyc (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			Leicester been superb first half, cracking hit from Maddison
		
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Had enough of watching Arsenal already mate!


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## Tashyboy (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Oh dear tashy, this was outside the box 😁
		
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like I said, Ave not seen 99.9% 😉


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			like I said, Ave not seen 99.9% 😉
		
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Its ok, your analogy of him suggests it would be a foul, that's good enough for me😉


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## paddyc (Dec 13, 2020)

Not seen the 1st half Have Burnley  parked the bus?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 13, 2020)




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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Not seen the 1st half Have Burnley  parked the bus?
		
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not really, just 2 awful sides


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## SteveW86 (Dec 13, 2020)

How stupid is Xhaka


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

That better be the last time that idiot wears an Arsenal shirt


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 13, 2020)

Xhaka obviously fancied having Xmas off.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Xhaka obviously fancied having Xmas off.
		
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fans fancy he has the rest of the season off, hopefully he goes to Germany in January as he shouldve in the summer


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			That better be the last time that idiot wears an Arsenal shirt
		
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Not a chance. He'll be back when you go to the Amex


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## paddyc (Dec 13, 2020)

Xhaka what can you say.......absolute  knob. hopefully  Burnley  are not good  enough  to take advantage..😡


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## pauljames87 (Dec 13, 2020)




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## ColchesterFC (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			Leicester been superb first half, cracking hit from Maddison
		
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Where's the Leicester game being shown? I couldn't find it.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Where's the Leicester game being shown? I couldn't find it.
		
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Prime, as are all mid weeks 

I believe you don't need prime itself you can just watch on there without a subscription


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Prime
		
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Got no chance then. Mrs Colch is watching DIY SOS on the Grenfell community centre build. Guess I'm stuck with Arsenal v Burnley.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

elneny lucky not to join xhaka in the early bath and then the predictable happens


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2020)

What are Arsenal players doing ?

How has he only got a yellow for that ?

Arteta seems like another Kidd or McLaren - decent number 2 or assistant but clearly out of his depth as a manager.


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## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2020)

Just turned on, Xhaka off, Elneny lucky to be on, Auba own goal. Just can't get worse? Can it?


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 13, 2020)

Elneny should've gone as well. Good header from Aubamayang.


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## PieMan (Dec 13, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Just turned on, Xhaka off, Elneny lucky to be on, Auba own goal. Just can't get worse? Can it?
		
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Don't worry - Willian is still on the pitch...... 😉


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## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2020)

Another loss then.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 13, 2020)

VAR question - Team A is attacking. The ball is played forward and a player from Team A is offside. The assistant doesn't flag and the ball gets deflected out for a corner. Team A then score from the corner. Can VAR go back to look at the attack that led to the corner or only at the action after the ball comes back into play from the corner?


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			so disappointing to see Arteta pick the same old side in the prem league despite whats happening and how some of the kids have performed on Thursday nights

how many more times does he need to see the likes of Xhaka, Willian and Lacazette, look forward to us having 50 crosses against Burnley lol
		
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depressingly predictable 

the only thing worse than the performance was alan smiths commentary


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2020)

Annoyed. Good point against Liverpool and thanks to a shocking Arsenal performance we drop a place into the relegation zone and I'll have a chirpy Lancastrian woman to deal with in the morning as well


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			VAR question - Team A is attacking. The ball is played forward and a player from Team A is offside. The assistant doesn't flag and the ball gets deflected out for a corner. Team A then score from the corner. Can VAR go back to look at the attack that led to the corner or only at the action after the ball comes back into play from the corner?
		
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No.

Its the next phase of play. A pathetic rule.


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## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2020)

Just pathetic. Arsenal I mean.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			depressingly predictable 

the only thing worse than the performance was alan smiths commentary
		
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I had a piece of Burnley @6's and doubled with Leicester @Ev's  to pay 13/1😉


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

Just heard the Emirates  stadium announcer confirm tonight's attendance as 62,209🤭


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			VAR question - Team A is attacking. The ball is played forward and a player from Team A is offside. The assistant doesn't flag and the ball gets deflected out for a corner. Team A then score from the corner. Can VAR go back to look at the attack that led to the corner or only at the action after the ball comes back into play from the corner?
		
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Once the corner is taken then VAR can’t go back before that to a previous passage of play.
Corner, Yes or No, is not one of the 4 categories for VAR to review.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			VAR question - Team A is attacking. The ball is played forward and a player from Team A is offside. The assistant doesn't flag and the ball gets deflected out for a corner. Team A then score from the corner. Can VAR go back to look at the attack that led to the corner or only at the action after the ball comes back into play from the corner?
		
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No and that has happened a lot.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Annoyed. Good point against Liverpool and thanks to a shocking Arsenal performance we drop a place into the relegation zone and I'll have a chirpy Lancastrian woman to deal with in the morning as well
		
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Just be happy with your point.
You can’t influence what others do.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I had a piece of Burnley @6's and doubled with Leicester @Ev's  to pay 13/1😉
		
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0-0 at 16s, a saver on 0-1 when we went down to 10 men, dont feel any better for it though


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## JamesR (Dec 13, 2020)

Please, don’t be too hard on the Arsenal players. They were up against one of the great teams 🤣🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Once the corner is taken then VAR can’t go back before that to a previous passage of play.
Corner, Yes or No, is not one of the 4 categories for VAR to review.
		
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Seems a bit silly .
VAR can give offside if they score.
But can’t give offside if they get an unwarranted corner/ free kick.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2020)

Without getting in to another VAR Debate, the following is from the PL:

All 380 Premier League fixtures in a season will have a VAR, who is constantly monitoring the match but will be used only for "clear and obvious errors" or "serious missed incidents" in four match-changing situations:

Goals
Penalty decisions
Direct red card incidents
Mistaken identity

It would probably help if we tried to remember these and save ourselves some stress. 

VAR is not used for everything.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Once the corner is taken then VAR can’t go back before that to a previous passage of play.
Corner, Yes or No, is not one of the 4 categories for VAR to review.
		
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The offside in its current format is a stupid rule. Its only a matter of time before a player gets injured when he should've been flagged for offside and play stopped.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			0-0 at 16s, a saver on 0-1 when we went down to 10 men, dont feel any better for it though 

Click to expand...

Ah the schoolboy error there, always do No goalscorer.....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The offside in its current format is a stupid rule. Its only a matter of time before a player gets injured when he should've been flagged for offside and play stopped.
		
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Totally agree, in its current use it’s not fit for purpose, should be all or nothing for me, but how many interuptions would there be if it reviewed every decision?


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Without getting in to another VAR Debate, the following is from the PL:

All 380 Premier League fixtures in a season will have a VAR, who is constantly monitoring the match but will be used only for "clear and obvious errors" or "serious missed incidents" in four match-changing situations:

Goals
Penalty decisions
Direct red card incidents
Mistaken identity

It would probably help if we tried to remember these and save ourselves some stress.

VAR is not used for everything.
		
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Yes we all know this 
But might as well not give the Lino a flag as they are redundant now.
Some can’t even see the ball go out from the keeper ask David Moyes.
They have messed with the rules that much to suit Var it’s ridiculous


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree, in its current use it’s not fit for purpose, should be all or nothing for me, but how many interuptions would there be if it reviewed every decision?
		
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I'm all for the linos keeping their flags down for the really tight ones, but the obvious ones need flagging for. 

There's way too many  not so close ones being allowed to play on. 

Pre VAR I thought the offside calls were fairly consistent.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm all for the linos keeping their flags down for the really tight ones, but the obvious ones need flagging for.

There's way too many  not so close ones being allowed to play on.

Pre VAR I thought the offside calls were fairly consistent.
		
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Even if the flag goes up players should play to the whistle.
Any Var can be sorted later.
But someone’s going to get hurt by an unnecessary tackle when he was 5 yds offside.
It’s a stupid rule.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes we all know this
But might as well not give the Lino a flag as they are redundant now.
Some can’t even see the ball go out from the keeper ask David Moyes.
They have messed with the rules that much to suit Var it’s ridiculous
		
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Obviously we don’t all know otherwise Colchester wouldn’t of asked and for those who knew,(not you) why keep getting stressed about the ones not in their remit?


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ah the schoolboy error there, always do No goalscorer.....
		
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shows how often i back 0-0 completely forgot that haha


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



*Even if the flag goes up players should play to the whistle.*
Any Var can be sorted later.
But someone’s going to get hurt by an unnecessary tackle when he was 5 yds offside.
It’s a stupid rule.
		
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The ref can't blow till the flag goes up.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The ref can't blow till the flag goes up.
		
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It gives him the option though to play on if it’s tight 
Or let it go and let VAR sort it out.
Or blow up if it’s obviously miles offside.
Atm it’s a mess.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It gives him the option though to play on if it’s tight
Or let it go and let VAR sort it out.
Or blow up if it’s obviously miles offside.
Atm it’s a mess.
		
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How will he know if its tight, hes usually 10yards behind play?

Refs and linos make mistakes, they're human playing a game at a high pace, they've got to me decisions in the spur of the moment. 

Thats what they're currently doing, though its a farce.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

Arsenal 75/1 to be relegated? Discuss lol


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			How will he know if its tight, hes usually 10yards behind play?

Refs and linos make mistakes, they're human playing a game at a high pace, they've got to me decisions in the spur of the moment.

Thats what they're currently doing, though its a farce.
		
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Yes I accept they make mistakes .
It’s the ones where they are miles off that’s just stupid


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			Arsenal 75/1 to be relegated? Discuss lol
		
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They're safe. Just. 😁😁

I think with a few new faces in Jan and a bit of time Arteta will get it right. You can't keep swapping and changing mangers


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			They're safe. Just. 😁😁

I think with a few new faces in Jan and a bit of time Arteta will get it right. You can't keep swapping and changing mangers
		
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Not sure Arteta will see January  Even less sure well spend much in January (70% of our players should be for sale though!!)

Agree re not swapping managers, was never our style. Still not convinced by him, less so after the XI he picked today but not certain he has full control and think the bigger issues are higher up in the club, have been since Dein walked away


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Without getting in to another VAR Debate, the following is from the PL:

All 380 Premier League fixtures in a season will have a VAR, who is constantly monitoring the match but will be used only for "clear and obvious errors" or "serious missed incidents" in four match-changing situations:

Goals
Penalty decisions
Direct red card incidents
Mistaken identity

It would probably help if we tried to remember these and save ourselves some stress.

VAR is not used for everything.
		
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No, but is mis-used for everything.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree, in its current use it’s not fit for purpose, should be all or nothing for me, but how many interuptions would there be if it reviewed every decision?
		
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Easy solution, 2 or 3 decisions can be changed per team FOR ANYTHING. Limits the amount of how many times VAR can be used over the course of a game. The Dynamic is wrong, and refs and VAR refs have patently proved that they dont use it consistently, so only use VAR when you call upon it, and decided by the teams themselves.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm all for the linos keeping their flags down for the really tight ones, but the obvious ones need flagging for.

There's way too many  not so close ones being allowed to play on.

Pre VAR I thought the offside calls were fairly consistent.
		
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I dunno, was it Arsenal at United the other year when the lino flagged offside and he was 2 yards onside, but as the ref hadnt blown, the goal stood. A perfect use of VAR.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2020)

Mo is under the ball, he has two hands shove him in the back forward a yard and its not a foul? That was even a foul 20 years ago. Wow.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Easy solution, 2 or 3 decisions can be changed per team FOR ANYTHING. Limits the amount of how many times VAR can be used over the course of a game. The Dynamic is wrong, and refs and VAR refs have patently proved that they dont use it consistently, so only use VAR when you call upon it, and decided by the teams themselves.
		
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We’ve discussed that one before Pete, I agree, something along the lines of 3 challenges per Team, Captains choice only.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dunno, was it Arsenal at United the other year when the lino flagged offside and he was 2 yards onside, but as the ref hadnt blown, the goal stood. A perfect use of VAR.
		
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Thats the tight ones I'm saying they should leave. Its the other ones that are well off, Last season Aubamayeng was 3yards offside ref kept flag down and matip put it out for a corner. I can remember fuming in my seat this was allowed to happen.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ve discussed that one before Pete, I agree, something along the lines of 3 challenges per Team, Captains choice only.
		
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Not for me, as it then becomes tactical. 

Get rid or only use it for inside the box or outside the box and lets try to improve the refereeing standards. Even if its only replacing 1or2 refs each season.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not sure Arteta will see January  Even less sure well spend much in January (70% of our players should be for sale though!!)

Agree re not swapping managers, was never our style. Still not convinced by him, less so after the XI he picked today but not certain he has full control and think the bigger issues are higher up in the club, have been since Dein walked away
		
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Whose next and can you really see any improvement with that squad without adding quality players to it?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Not for me, as it then becomes tactical.

Get rid or only use it for inside the box or outside the box and lets try to improve the refereeing standards. Even if its only replacing 1or2 refs each season.
		
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Don’t think we’ll ever lose it now mate and part of its problem is it‘s only being used for certain offences.
Improving the refereeing standards has to go hand in hand with the clamping down on players cheating.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Don’t think we’ll ever lose it now mate and part of its problem is it‘s only being used for certain offences.
Improving the refereeing standards has to *go hand in hand with the clamping down on players cheating.*

Click to expand...

Thats got to be addressed across the globe. Can you see that happening? I can't


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Not for me, as it then becomes tactical.

Get rid or only use it for inside the box or outside the box and lets try to improve the refereeing standards. Even if its only replacing 1or2 refs each season.
		
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Agree 

The last thing VAR needs is to put it in the hands of managers/captains etc to make challenges - it’s not needed in rugby that way so why in football 

It should only be used for red card offences that the referee has missed and anything clearly “obvious” for a goal scored

Right now the VAR is refeering the game by proxy - it’s poor and it’s ruining the game , if someone can’t see something different within 30 seconds on a replay then it’s not clear and obvious, it shouldn’t take 3 mins of slow mo and zooming right in - that’s not what VAR was supposed to be for 

Forget the offsides as well , let the linesman do it - there wasnt that many decisions they got wrong 

Clear and obvious and red cards - that’s it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Agree

The last thing VAR needs is to put it in the hands of managers/captains etc to make challenges - it’s not needed in rugby that way so why in football

It should only be used for red card offences that the referee has missed and anything clearly “obvious” for a goal scored

Right now the VAR is refeering the game by proxy - it’s poor and it’s ruining the game , if someone can’t see something different within 30 seconds on a replay then it’s not clear and obvious, it shouldn’t take 3 mins of slow mo and zooming right in - that’s not what VAR was supposed to be for

Forget the offsides as well , let the linesman do it - there wasnt that many decisions they got wrong

Clear and obvious and red cards - that’s it
		
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Explain the 2 Clear and Obvious shirt pulls seen by fans on TV in the Derby at Goodison and missed by the Officials and VAR?

Isn’t part of the problem the fact that “ clear and obvious” is not that clear or obvious!

Other sports are irrelevant, not used in Rugby but works in Cricket?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Explain the 2 Clear and Obvious shirt pulls seen by fans on TV in the Derby at Goodison and missed by the Officials and VAR?

Isn’t part of the problem the fact that “ clear and obvious” is not that clear or obvious!

Other sports are irrelevant, not used in Rugby but works in Cricket?
		
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What do you what me to explain ? The VAR ref in the Derby was completely incompetent and a disgrace hence why Pickford stayed on the pitch 

Clear and Obvious is self explanatory- if it’s not seen within seconds of looking at a replay then it’s not clear and obvious - if something can be spotted within seconds then that’s it sorted , if they need to take 2 mins from multiple slow Mo’s and angles then it’s not 

Yesterday the Salah incident was clear - he was pushed , its a clear foul that can be seen 

Rugby is a perfect example - VAR only gets involved if there is an off the ball incident that could result in a sin bin or red card or if the ref asks them to check during a try being scored 

Can easily be used the same way in football - off the ball incidents that could result in a red card ( like the Xhaka incident ) or if the ref things something might have been missed in the run up to a goal - simple , that’s it , nothing more

Cant compare it to cricket in any shape or form. Totally different VAR


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## Tashyboy (Dec 14, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Annoyed. Good point against Liverpool and thanks to a shocking Arsenal performance we drop a place into the relegation zone and I'll have a chirpy Lancastrian woman to deal with in the morning as well
		
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There all chirpy 😉


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## Bdill93 (Dec 14, 2020)

Up the villa - yet again!

No idea why we can beat teams who historically finish 7th and above, but struggle against mid table teams - but we're a lot better than we were last year!! 

Cant wait to get back to Villa Park


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## pauljames87 (Dec 14, 2020)

Heard an interesting stat over weekend 

Chelsea haven't beat a top 10 team this season? Is this true ?

They will next weekend when they play us


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Thats the tight ones I'm saying they should leave. Its the other ones that are well off, Last season Aubamayeng was 3yards offside ref kept flag down and matip put it out for a corner. I can remember fuming in my seat this was allowed to happen.
		
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Yes, but they have to be 100% ones.

The United/Arsenal one was a "crossover" type, where the defender is running out as the attacker runs forward, and both at pace. If the linesman has a large doubt, keep the flag down. we will just have to accept that there may be some injuries along the way. There is no perfect system.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What do you what me to explain ? The VAR ref in the Derby was completely incompetent and a disgrace hence why Pickford stayed on the pitch

Clear and Obvious is self explanatory- if it’s not seen within seconds of looking at a replay then it’s not clear and obvious - if something can be spotted within seconds then that’s it sorted , if they need to take 2 mins from multiple slow Mo’s and angles then it’s not

Yesterday the Salah incident was clear - he was pushed , its a clear foul that can be seen

Rugby is a perfect example - VAR only gets involved if there is an off the ball incident that could result in a sin bin or red card or if the ref asks them to check during a try being scored

Can easily be used the same way in football - off the ball incidents that could result in a red card ( like the Xhaka incident ) or if the ref things something might have been missed in the run up to a goal - simple , that’s it , nothing more

Cant compare it to cricket in any shape or form. Totally different VAR
		
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Come on Phil, answer the question I asked about the shirt pulls! Why deflect on to Pickford?

It’s not that simple, it’s only simple when it’s seen!

Ask @Liverbirdie if the shirt pull was clear and obvious leading to Keane’s goal?

We all agree the Refs are poor, we are talking about the tools to help them.

As for tactics with 3 appeals, that’s simple, play continues until the ball is next dead. How could it be tactical? Just like Cricket, use your appeal but be prepared to lose it, everything else you have to accept.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Agree

The last thing VAR needs is to put it in the hands of managers/captains etc to make challenges - it’s not needed in rugby that way so why in football

It should only be used for red card offences that the referee has missed and anything clearly “obvious” for a goal scored

Right now the VAR is refeering the game by proxy - it’s poor and it’s ruining the game , if someone can’t see something different within 30 seconds on a replay then it’s not clear and obvious, it shouldn’t take 3 mins of slow mo and zooming right in - that’s not what VAR was supposed to be for

Forget the offsides as well , let the linesman do it - there wasnt that many decisions they got wrong

Clear and obvious and red cards - that’s it
		
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Nope, the first thing that needs doing is take it away from the refs and VAR refs.

You quote rugby, I quote cricket - either can work.

If your talking tactically using it, in what way?. If for using up time, arent the refs supposed to add time on for it?

At least try it for one season, cant be any worse than the current incumbent. Are you seriously suggesting that the way refs and VAR refs use it is in any way fair, consistent and sensible at the moment - i'll take the answer to be no, so why not give one season the other way round, and if still the load of rubbish we have now, bin it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on Phil, answer the question I asked about the shirt pulls! Why deflect on to Pickford?

It’s not that simple, it’s only simple when it’s seen!

Ask @Liverbirdie if the shirt pull was clear and obvious leading to Keane’s goal?

We all agree the Refs are poor, we are talking about the tools to help them.

As for tactics with 3 appeals, that’s simple, play continues until the ball is next dead. How could it be tactical? Just like Cricket, use your appeal but be prepared to lose it, everything else you have to accept.
		
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Sorry I can’t recall shirt pulls on games 2 months ago 🤦‍♂️

And doesn’t matter what tool if the ref is still that poor he can’t even see the infringement in front of them 

Don’t need to have appeals -don’t need it rugby which is a more appropriate game to compare to as opposed to cricket which has no comparison at all to football.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nope, the first thing that needs doing is take it away from the refs and VAR refs.

You quote rugby, I quote cricket - either can work.

If your talking tactically using it, in what way?. If for using up time, arent the refs supposed to add time on for it?

At least try it for one season, cant be any worse than the current incumbent. Are you seriously suggesting that the way refs and VAR refs use it is in any way fair, consistent and sensible at the moment - i'll take the answer to be no, so why not give one season the other way round, and if still the load of rubbish we have now, bin it.
		
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You can’t compare football to cricket - it’s not the same flow of the game , there is no comparison at all between now cricket works and how football works. Rugby is more relevant comparison - its the same flow , the same make up - the way the game is played is very close. VAR works fine - red cards and when the ref asks for assistance , that’s it , nothing else. They don’t need a captain to ask or throw in an appeal - it’s easy in cricket when appealing is all part of the game.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 14, 2020)




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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....r-sadly-passes-away-aged-73-20201214.amp.html

Sad news ☹️


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## Papas1982 (Dec 14, 2020)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ex...d-Houllier-dead-Liverpool-Aston-Villa-PSG/amp

Always liked him during his time in England.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry I can’t recall shirt pulls on games 2 months ago 🤦‍♂️

And doesn’t matter what tool if the ref is still that poor he can’t even see the infringement in front of them

Don’t need to have appeals -don’t need it rugby which is a more appropriate game to compare to as opposed to cricket which has no comparison at all to football.
		
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Selective memory, your red spectacles must be welded to your head.

Shirt pulls that were all over social media, decisions described as “massive” on here by fellow reds and yet you wish to bring Pickford in to, a situation that involved the Laws of the Game and you blame the VAR Official, what about the Ref and the Lino?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Selective memory, your red spectacles must be welded to your head.

Shirt pulls that were all over social media, decisions described as “massive” on here by fellow reds and yet you wish to bring Pickford in to, a situation that involved the Laws of the Game and you blame the VAR Official, what about the Ref and the Lino?
		
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Why would someone remember a shirt pull from over two months ago as opposed to a tackle that ended someones season with a serious knee injury 🙄 - can you really not see why fans would remember that ? And yes i blame the VAR ref for seeing the tackle and deeming it fine


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why would someone remember a shirt pull from over two months ago as opposed to a tackle that ended someones season with a serious knee injury 🙄 - can you really not see why fans would remember that ? And yes i blame the VAR ref for seeing the tackle and deeming it fine
		
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WE WERE NOT DISCUSSING PICKFORD, WHY NOT READ THE POST AND ANSWER THE QUESTION.

A SIMPLE REPLY WOULD OF BEEN I DON’T REMEMBER ANY SHIRT PULLING INSTANCES.

I’m out, I should of kept my promise to myself!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			WE WERE NOT DISCUSSING PICKFORD, WHY NOT READ THE POST AND ANSWER THE QUESTION.

*A SIMPLE REPLY WOULD OF BEEN I DON’T REMEMBER ANY SHIRT PULLING INSTANCES.*

I’m out, I should of kept my promise to myself!
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



*Sorry I can’t recall shirt pulls on games 2 months ago 🤦‍♂️*

And doesn’t matter what tool if the ref is still that poor he can’t even see the infringement in front of them

Don’t need to have appeals -don’t need it rugby which is a more appropriate game to compare to as opposed to cricket which has no comparison at all to football.
		
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Maybe you should read a bit clearer then - I did say that can’t recall two shirt pulls and your response was that I selective memory 🙄

The Pickford Incident was also relevant because it was the high profile incident with VAR in the Derby that you brought into the discussion 🙄


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

CL draw 

Borussia Monchengladbach v Manchester City
Lazio v Bayern Munich
Atletico Madrid v Chelsea
Leipzig vs Liverpool
Porto vs Juve
Barce vs PSG
Sevilla vs Dortmund
Atalanta vs Real Madrid


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## Orikoru (Dec 14, 2020)

That's Chelsea out then. Barca v PSG looks like the tie of the round. Although Barca are rubbish at the minute.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe you should read a bit clearer then - I did say that can’t recall two shirt pulls and your response was that I selective memory 🙄

The Pickford Incident was also relevant because it was the high profile incident with VAR in the Derby that you brought into the discussion 🙄
		
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You can’t even remember your own replies! You only mentioned not remembering the shirt pulls after your first reply ignored them and you brought Pickford in to it!! So I went back at you!

I asked you about 2 specific instances that were similar and not picked up by VAR, you ignored those instances and brought an another incident in to it (Pickford) that WAS seen by VAR! Completely different to what was bring discussed.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			CL draw

Borussia Monchengladbach v Manchester City
Lazio v Bayern Munich
Atletico Madrid v Chelsea
Leipzig vs Liverpool
Porto vs Juve
Barce vs PSG
Sevilla vs Dortmund
Atalanta vs Real Madrid
		
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Who did Yernited get?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That's Chelsea out then. Barca v PSG looks like the tie of the round. Although Barca are rubbish at the minute.
		
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Hahaha massive contradiction there 😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You can’t even remember your own replies! You only mentioned not remembering the shirt pulls after your first reply ignored them and you brought Pickford in to it!! So I went back at you!

I asked you about 2 specific instances that were similar and not picked up by VAR, you ignored those instances and brought an another incident in to it (Pickford) that WAS seen by VAR! Completely different to what was bring discussed.
		
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Ok

I’ll try and explain 

You mentioned the Derby and two incidents being missed by the VAR , I actually agreed that the VAR that day was shocking ( Coote ) hence why he did nothing in regards the Pickford tackle 

So overall VAR that day was shocking both in missing things and then the actual VAR ref clearly being utterly incompetent- poor application of the tools and poor referee


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			elneny lucky not to join xhaka in the early bath and then the predictable happens
		
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Can't believe he didn't see red for that. The team really is a shadow of its former self, unless something changes pdq, I fear this may become the first time we get relegated from the top flight.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 14, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			Can't believe he didn't see red for that. The team really is a shadow of its former self, unless something changes pdq, I fear this may become the first time we get relegated from the top flight.
		
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The ref was poor imo.
He should have gone your right.
But the ref was three yards away from Xhaka incident and only gave him a yellow.
He was told by the Var ref to look at the moniter and changed that to red.
Everyone knows if you grab someone by the throat it’s red ,except the ref yesterday without his VAR crutch.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Who did Yernited get?
		
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Stop trolling, you know full well that OGS on Ollies tracksuit means “Only group stages”. 😉


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## Tashyboy (Dec 14, 2020)

Joking aside I know the draws been done which has somewhat overshadowed Houlliers sad passing. What’s the Liverpool’s  fans thought on him. I quite liked him personally.


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## davemc1 (Dec 14, 2020)

Allez Allez🧣 ❤️ 

That man gave me some great memories. RIP Gerard


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2020)

Allez, Gerard.

He was the bridge between old bootroom Liverpool and becoming a modern club, with modern facilities.

He didnt get everything right, but he definitely improved the professionalism of the whole club, and won us a a great treble along the way. RIP


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Whose next and can you really see any improvement with that squad without adding quality players to it?
		
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Id stick with him personally, not sure it will happen though. 

Only way we improve with the current squad is to remove the long standing poisons like Xhaka from it and play some of the youngsters but long term far more quality is needed. Its amazing how many times some of them need to fail yet get given chance after chance. Been saying it for years but isnt going to change under the current board set up sadly

Would like to see us set up something like:
Leno, AMN, Saliba, Gabriel, Tierney, Ceballos, Partey, Saka, Smith Rowe, Nelson/Martinelli, Aubameyang

I would put the following up for sale/free tfr: Ozil, Xhaka, Luiz, Willian, Lacazette, Elneny, Mustafi, Sokratis, Chambers, Holding, Bellerin, Kolasinac, Cedric

The second list shows just how the big a problem anyone incoming has!


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			Can't believe he didn't see red for that. The team really is a shadow of its former self, unless something changes pdq, I fear this may become the first time we get relegated from the top flight.
		
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not sure if you saw it, but when you watch the replays after having done that Elneny also makes a pathetic dive and pretends to be hurt, so embarrassing


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			not sure if you saw it, but when you watch the replays after having done that Elneny also makes a pathetic dive and pretends to be hurt, so embarrassing
		
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It was shocking really, no excuses, and as you say, downright embarrassing.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You can’t compare football to cricket - it’s not the same flow of the game , there is no comparison at all between now cricket works and how football works. Rugby is more relevant comparison - its the same flow , the same make up - the way the game is played is very close. VAR works fine - red cards and when the ref asks for assistance , that’s it , nothing else. They don’t need a captain to ask or throw in an appeal - it’s easy in cricket when appealing is all part of the game.
		
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Why can't you?

Granted the more similar sports are rugby/football in the way they are played, but this is to do with a decision making process with regards to foul play, nit just about how they run around a big field.

Just look at the decision making process as an entity on its own, as the current dynamic is massively flawed, although were you get VAR is fine from, I dont know?


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## Beezerk (Dec 14, 2020)

Hockey anyone 👀


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why can't you?

Granted the more similar sports are rugby/football in the way they are played, but this is to do with a decision making process with regards to foul play, nit just about how they run around a big field.

Just look at the decision making process as an entity on its own, as the current dynamic is massively flawed, although were you get VAR is fine from, I dont know?
		
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VAR in Rugby works fine and that’s the model football should be based around.

Cricket is a world of difference where they are using a guess work process on ball tracking and the whole framework and process of appeals is a totally different model

Football doesn’t imo work for an appeal process from the sideline or on the pitch - opens up issues imo. Hockey uses an appeal process where you get one appeal per game but again the flow of the game and when it’s used is different.

You can just see it - oppo Captain throws down an appeal whilst the other team are bursting through after a quick thump up field.

If football followed the Rugby model then I think it would iron out a number of issues 

Red card off the ball offences 
Anything clear and obvious when a goal is scored


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## USER1999 (Dec 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			Id stick with him personally, not sure it will happen though. 

Only way we improve with the current squad is to remove the long standing poisons like Xhaka from it and play some of the youngsters but long term far more quality is needed. Its amazing how many times some of them need to fail yet get given chance after chance. Been saying it for years but isnt going to change under the current board set up sadly

Would like to see us set up something like:
Leno, AMN, Saliba, Gabriel, Tierney, Ceballos, Partey, Saka, Smith Rowe, Nelson/Martinelli, Aubameyang

I would put the following up for sale/free tfr: Ozil, Xhaka, Luiz, Willian, Lacazette, Elneny, Mustafi, Sokratis, Chambers, Holding, Bellerin, Kolasinac, Cedric

The second list shows just how the big a problem anyone incoming has!
		
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I am with you on all that except Ceballos. He is slow, and bang average at best. It's no wonder he is out on loan. Again.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 14, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Joking aside I know the draws been done which has somewhat overshadowed Houlliers sad passing. What’s the Liverpool’s  fans thought on him. I quite liked him personally.
		
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Im more cut up about this than I thought I would be.

From a fan perspective, he’s the first real Liverpool manager I remember. I was at the “Michael Owen” FA Cup as an 11 year old and the sheer joy of singing his song for what felt like hours after the match will live with me until the day I die. I now understand the importance he had professionally within the club, bringing us into the 21st century in the change of how the club was run. 

He was a great man. I’m gutted. Absolutely gutted.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VAR in Rugby works fine and that’s the model football should be based around.

Cricket is a world of difference where they are using a guess work process on ball tracking and the whole framework and process of appeals is a totally different model

Football doesn’t imo work for an appeal process from the sideline or on the pitch - opens up issues imo. Hockey uses an appeal process where you get one appeal per game but again the flow of the game and when it’s used is different.

You can just see it - oppo Captain throws down an appeal whilst the other team are bursting through after a quick thump up field.

If football followed the Rugby model then I think it would iron out a number of issues

Red card off the ball offences
Anything clear and obvious when a goal is scored
		
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You have given one example of why it may not work - simple, the ball has to go dead before you can  start your appeal.

To me most of VAR's problems is the dynamic of when a ref uses it, when VAR suggest the ref has a look, the VAR make the decision themselves - can you see the common thread, here? 

Instead put it on the manager/captain when to use instead.

If it doesnt work after a year of that, fair enough at least it has been tried.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			You have given one example of why it may not work - simple, the ball has to go dead before you can  start your appeal.

To me most of VAR's problems is the dynamic of when a ref uses it, when VAR suggest the ref has a look, the VAR make the decision themselves - can you see the common thread, here?

Instead put it on the manager/captain when to use instead.

If it doesnt work after a year of that, fair enough at least it has been tried.
		
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Hence why you change the dynamics of when the VAR is used and keep to those boundaries - right now VAR is acting like a second ref , too involved 

VAR should only ever be about making sure there are no real blunders or that someone doesn’t get away with a shocking incident that’s missed by the officials

It’s should be up to officials to officiate the match not players or managers etc - they should have no involvement in the VAR 

We will just have to agree to disagree because I can never see them going to some sort of appeal/challenge method - a player or manager would find a way to make it tactical


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## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2020)

Shut up Phil and stick to hockey 😁


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## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Allez Allez🧣 ❤️

That man gave me some great memories. RIP Gerard
		
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Spot on Dave, to many to mention but one of my all time favourite aways was Rome 2001 when MO slotted 2.


RIP Gérard


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hence why you change the dynamics of when the VAR is used and keep to those boundaries - right now VAR is acting like a second ref , too involved

VAR should only ever be about making sure there are no real blunders or that someone doesn’t get away with a shocking incident that’s missed by the officials

It’s should be up to officials to officiate the match not players or managers etc - they should have no involvement in the VAR

We will just have to agree to disagree because I can never see them going to some sort of appeal/challenge method - a player or manager would find a way to make it tactical
		
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But they have said that they are improving it all the time, and that they are being less intrusive, when its patently the opposite.

I was in favour of it coming in, but its that bad that it either needs to change the dynamic or get binned.

You live in hope of it ever going to clear and obvious, and bring in Stuey's referees from space, but I dont share your confidences, so would rather change the dynamic of who decides when it gets used. It needs root and branch reform, not tweaking.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2020)

Sad to hear about Houlier. Very talented manager and you only have to look at what he won https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gérard_Houllier#Manager and what esteem to he was held in by his peers. Clearly his Liverpool career was arguably his pinnacle and although like many before and after he failed to win the league title he did a lot for the club. Another sad loss


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 14, 2020)

As I see it once the VAR genie was let out of the bottle the damage was done.

Its use cannot be limited as that would only lead to more protests and argument with the claim rightly being made that the technology is there and should, therefore,  be referred to.

Also comparing the use of video based officiating in other sports with VAR in football is not realistic. 

Cricket is a string of sequences of play (balls bowled) with a clear break between  each.

Rugby is a series of phases of play arising from regular set plays (scrums, line-outs, free kicks and penalties) and thus reference to outside officials is less intrusive. 

In football the restart of play after a ball has gone out is far more instant, unless playing for time😉, and the game does not lend itself to lengthy reviews being undertaken. 

Goal-line technology should have been the limit as the outcome is instantaneous and purely fact based. Mind you Sheffield United might not agree with me on that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2020)

Love these daft facts!

When Jose Mourinho has finished a season in the Premier League, he's always finished in the same position that he was in after 12 games… 

...Tottenham are currently 1st after 12 games


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## AmandaJR (Dec 15, 2020)

What on earth?! Traore oiling himself up like a bodybuilder...now looks like an early bath in the washing up liquid too!


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2020)

Blatant dive from Neto. VAR at least did something right in overturning the penalty, but why not book him them? You've just seen on the video plain as day that there was zero contact. Why not give him a card? I'm sure they'd say VAR isn't for reviewing yellow card decisions but you've just watched it anyway so you might as well give him the yellow he deserves!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Blatant dive from Neto. VAR at least did something right in overturning the penalty, but why not book him them? You've just seen on the video plain as day that there was zero contact. Why not give him a card? I'm sure they'd say VAR isn't for reviewing yellow card decisions but you've just watched it anyway so you might as well give him the yellow he deserves!
		
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If its not a pen then its a booking.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 15, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Blatant dive from Neto. VAR at least did something right in overturning the penalty, but why not book him them? You've just seen on the video plain as day that there was zero contact. Why not give him a card? I'm sure they'd say VAR isn't for reviewing yellow card decisions but you've just watched it anyway so you might as well give him the yellow he deserves!
		
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Went down squealing like a pig too! Then scores a beauty of a winner...just show your talent and leave the cheating.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2020)

Chelsea STILL haven't beaten a top 10 side this seasonn


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## Slime (Dec 15, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Chelsea STILL haven't beaten a top 10 side this seasonn
		
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I thought Lampard was the new Messiah, the way some of the media are bigging him up.


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## Beezerk (Dec 15, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Chelsea STILL haven't beaten a top 10 side this seasonn
		
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Sorry to correct you, it's actually Frank Lampards Chelsea


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## Tashyboy (Dec 15, 2020)

And if you don’t convert your chances you won’t win. Hmm am sure Ave said that before.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 16, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			And if you don’t convert your chances you won’t win. Hmm am sure Ave said that before.
		
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One of the most frustrating watches so far this season - and that's saying something...good play by the GK though.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 16, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			One of the most frustrating watches so far this season - and that's saying something...good play by the GK though.
		
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Oddly enough I gave him MOTM, then he pulls out another stocker. Made me chuckle though. Ederson saves in the cirst few minutes and it’s a routine save. The WBA keeper saved some from poor finishing and he has had a stocker 🤔.
Good hard earned point for WBA.
Makes me chuckle saying Pep is playing the wrong formation. City had 25 chances. At the moment City couldn’t finish a bag of chips.
That “ typical” City phrase is creeping back in. At this rate we’re gonna be everyone’s favourite second team again 😉


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## Bazzatron (Dec 16, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			What on earth?! Traore oiling himself up like a bodybuilder...now looks like an early bath in the washing up liquid too!
		
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Done it for a while, stops him getting pulled back when he sets off on his speedy gonzalez style runs.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 16, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Oddly enough I gave him MOTM, then he pulls out another stocker. Made me chuckle though. Ederson saves in the cirst few minutes and it’s a routine save. The WBA keeper saved some from poor finishing and he has had a stocker 🤔.
Good hard earned point for WBA.
Makes me chuckle saying Pep is playing the wrong formation. City had 25 chances. At the moment City couldn’t finish a bag of chips.
That “ typical” City phrase is creeping back in. At this rate we’re gonna be everyone’s favourite second team again 😉
		
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Build us our new stadium for free and you can have DCL 😉.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 16, 2020)

Bilic is first to go. Do we have any Baggies fans on here? Right decision?

I'm not quite sure what WBA owners were expecting. I think i heard at the weekend that the only buys they made this season were the loanees from last season signing permanently. It's a tough ask to expect them to stay up with Championship players.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bilic is first to go. Do we have any Baggies fans on here? Right decision?

I'm not quite sure what WBA owners were expecting. I think i heard at the weekend that the only buys they made this season were the loanees from last season signing permanently. It's a tough ask to expect them to stay up with Championship players.
		
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Not a baggie but suffered him at West ham

Had one good season which was due to the combination of the fans loving seeing the back of  big Sam , last season at Upton park and a world class player making the rest look amazing 

People forget he was 3rd choice for us after the first 2 said no.

He is a lovely bloke but a poor manager. Can't organise a defence


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## Tashyboy (Dec 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not a baggie but suffered him at West ham

Had one good season which was due to the combination of the fans loving seeing the back of  big Sam , last season at Upton park and a world class player making the rest look amazing

People forget he was 3rd choice for us after the first 2 said no.

He is a lovely bloke but a poor manager. *Can't organise a defence[*/QUOTE]

Don’t bite Tash, don’t bite 😣😉
		
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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2020)

Weird to sack him after a really good result against City though. They must have been working on the deal for Sam for a few weeks and finally reached an agreement. As mentioned though, even Sam will struggle with these players. You can't say many of them are Premier League quality, apart from maybe Pereira, Phillips who I rated when he was QPR, and a couple who are well past their best like Gibbs and Ivanovic.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2020)

Surprised "Big Sam"  is going to WBA, I thought he'd be  hanging on for a crack at the  big job he deserves..... Yernited 😉

He's been fantastic every club  he's been at and had them all punching above their weight.....


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Surprised "Big Sam"  is going to WBA, I thought he'd be  hanging on for a crack at the  big job he deserves..... Yernited 😉

He's been fantastic every club  he's been at and had them all punching above their weight.....
		
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I agree. I was annoyed when the poxy media ruined his England gig. I thought he might have been ideal for us at the time, given how he can coax good performances out of bang average overrated players. It's a shame he never got the chance.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I agree. I was annoyed when the poxy media ruined his England gig. I thought he might have been ideal for us at the time, given how he can coax good performances out of bang average overrated players. It's a shame he never got the chance.
		
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Best manager ever for England.. 100% record

I thought same as you ideal for England because he does well on shoe string budgets so good players for free? His MO


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Surprised "Big Sam"  is going to WBA, I thought he'd be  hanging on for a crack at the  big job he deserves..... Yernited 😉

He's been fantastic every club  he's been at and had them all punching above their weight.....
		
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Think he wants a challenge

Kept us up on a shoe string budget

Even got us playing good football in his last season .. with a striker in January could have pushed further but wasn't backed 

Season after he left then we invested in

Payet 
Lanzini 
Ogbonna 
Moses 
Antonio 

Yeah so bilic did "wonders" look at the players he got bought in for him!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Payet (one of best in league that season)
Lanzini still with us now
Ogbonna our best cb 
Moses did well for us 
Antonio well .. he hasn't been bad eh?

If Sam had them I bet he would have done well


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2020)

no xhaka, no bellerin, no willian, no luiz, no lacazette

far better looking arsenal side tonight though wouldve liked to see Smith Rowe play.

first time for a while i have some hope, lets see how long that lasts


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## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I agree. I was annoyed when the poxy media ruined his England gig. *I thought he might have been ideal for us at the time, given how he can coax good performances out of bang average overrated players.* It's a shame he never got the chance.
		
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You obviously cant remember his 1 and only England game 😄😄


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## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Think he wants a challenge

Kept us up on a shoe string budget

Even got us playing good football in his last season .. with a striker in January could have pushed further but wasn't backed

Season after he left then we invested in

Payet
Lanzini
Ogbonna
Moses
Antonio

Yeah so bilic did "wonders" look at the players he got bought in for him!!!!!!!!!!!!

Payet (one of best in league that season)
Lanzini still with us now
Ogbonna our best cb
Moses did well for us
Antonio well .. he hasn't been bad eh?

If Sam had them I bet he would have done well
		
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Imagine what he'd be able  to do with that Yernited squad 😁😁


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Imagine what he'd be able  to do with that Yernited squad 😁😁
		
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Might even keep arsenal up


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## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Might even keep arsenal up
		
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He's a human not a magician😊


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## Papas1982 (Dec 16, 2020)

How long have we gotta hear about the Leicester result......

5th best team over last 38 games and yet it’s all about that.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 16, 2020)

They were discussing on the radio about it affecting peoples mental health not being able to go to watch live football.
Thoughts?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			How long have we gotta hear about the Leicester result......

5th best team over last 38 games and yet it’s all about that.
		
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Just shows you how far you have come


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			They were discussing on the radio about it affecting peoples mental health not being able to go to watch live football.
Thoughts?
		
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Can say this of most things that make people happy 

I think keeping it on the telly for everyone is important to give people escapism


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			no xhaka, no bellerin, no willian, no luiz, no lacazette

far better looking arsenal side tonight though wouldve liked to see Smith Rowe play.

first time for a while i have some hope, lets see how long that lasts
		
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15 mins


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Can say this of most things that make people happy

I think keeping it on the telly for everyone is important to give people escapism
		
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I actually agree with them.
But if you’re use to going to the match,watching it on the TV isn’t really the same.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 16, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			I actually agree with them.
But if you’re use to going to the match,watching it on the TV isn’t really the same.
		
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It’s not the same, but it’s better than nothing.

My Nan has been going since before season tickets started, now she’s got my old iPad, facetime catch ups after the games with her friends is her only social outlet.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 16, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I agree. I was annoyed when the poxy media ruined his England gig. I thought he might have been ideal for us at the time, given how he can coax good performances out of bang average overrated players. It's a shame he never got the chance.
		
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Imagine being a Sunderland fan, we would still be in the premier league if he had stayed.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Imagine being a Sunderland fan, we would still be in the premier league if he had stayed.
		
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I think part the reason he left was he didn't want to risk his never been relegated title


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2020)

Losing 1-0 but a few bits of encouragement, not a lot but a few compared to recent weeks


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2020)

Play better for 15 mins, get the equaliser, then its Gabriels turn to self implode and get himself sent off 

Takes our best midfielder off, moves our most creative player to left back and brings the clown on for the last half hour


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 16, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			How long have we gotta hear about the Leicester result......

5th best team over last 38 games and yet it’s all about that.
		
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Still hurts?


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## GG26 (Dec 16, 2020)

Don’t get the overturning of the Leicester penalty decision.  Yes Gomes got a touch, but Perez still had control of the ball and then Gomes trod on Perez’s foot and brings him down preventing him getting a pass or shot away.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 16, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Still hurts? 

Click to expand...

When you’ve had a witch doctor lift a curse and signed George wears cousin a poor result is nothing to concern yourself with.....


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			Play better for 15 mins, get the equaliser, then its Gabriels turn to self implode and get himself sent off 

Takes our best midfielder off, moves our most creative player to left back and brings the clown on for the last half hour 

Click to expand...

I have sympathy. Watching your lot is almost as tough as watching mine and Arteta is definitely struggling but his players aren't helping him


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2020)

Well its a point I guess, some encouraging signs and some repitition of the same old problems


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 16, 2020)

Another example of a defender turning his back on the ball rather than facing it and conceding a goal.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 16, 2020)

Liverpool on top, but that’s a lucky goal. Harsh on Spurs as they were defending well and I imagine that was their game plan and look for a goal on the break so they will have to change now.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Another example of a defender turning his back on the ball rather than facing it and conceding a goal.
		
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Considering the concussion chances of a ball in the face can you blame them?

This isn't Sunday league..these players can hit the ball


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## Tashyboy (Dec 16, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			They were discussing on the radio about it affecting peoples mental health not being able to go to watch live football.
Thoughts?
		
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Watching it on the box without fans is rammel. However watching at the ground with VAR killing the game is even rammeler. Nope not affected my mental health at all.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Considering the concussion chances of a ball in the face can you blame them?

This isn't Sunday league..these players can hit the ball
		
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Yes I do blame them. He was less than a yard away from a ball on the floor. The chances of getting hit in the face was close to zero unless Salah had chipped it, in which case it wouldn't have hit him hard enough to cause concussion. He's turned his back and cost his team a goal.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 16, 2020)

GG26 said:



			Don’t get the overturning of the Leicester penalty decision.  Yes Gomes got a touch, but Perez still had control of the ball and then Gomes trod on Perez’s foot and brings him down preventing him getting a pass or shot away.
		
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It looked a penalty to me to be fair. Gormless by Gomes, he shouldn't have put a foot there. I'd have been miffed had it happened to us.

Any reason why Perez isn't starting? He improved Leicester no end when he came on.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

Haller what a goal!!!!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2020)

Only one result here and not going to be a good one. Being outplayed, we're flat and only a matter of time. A shadow of the performance at the weekend


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 16, 2020)

I assume Liverpool fans that said it was a foul on Salah for a push in the back will agree that Kane should have had a penalty for the challenge by Mane when he missed the header from the corner? Both hands in his back and pushed him.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

Beneteke red.
Well two yellows

Both harsh

But both for the same thing so he didn't learn


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## DanFST (Dec 16, 2020)

Who was the person that objected to me calling Arsenal bang average, because I support little West Ham? 

11 goals just before Christmas. Yikes.


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## Slime (Dec 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Surprised "Big Sam"  is going to WBA, *I thought he'd be  hanging on for a crack at the  big job he deserves..... Yernited *😉

He's been fantastic every club  he's been at and had them all punching above their weight.....
		
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Are Newcastle looking for a new manager?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2020)




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## Slime (Dec 16, 2020)

....................... and *if* United win their two games in hand over everyone above them we're 2nd.
Who'd have thought?


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2020)

Conceding late from a corner is very annoying. Thought we played well second half and were worth a point. Had two very good chances to go 2-1 up, shame Bergwijn can't finish, and I don't know what happened with Kane's header, obviously saw it at the last second. Oh well. Might as well give Liverpool the title now, nobody has been anywhere near consistent enough to chase them.


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			....................... and *if* United win their two games in hand over everyone above them we're 2nd.
Who'd have thought?
		
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When do they ever win two games these days?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			....................... and *if* United win their two games in hand over everyone above them we're 2nd.
Who'd have thought?
		
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If you had a decent manager you would be first


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## Slime (Dec 16, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			When do they ever win two games these days?
		
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We've won four of our last five league games and drew the other one.


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## Slime (Dec 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			If you had a decent manager you would be first
		
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..................... don't get me started, please.


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## Swingalot (Dec 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Beneteke red.
Well two yellows

Both harsh

But both for the same thing so he didn't learn
		
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I watch decisions like this and I honestly question the integrity of the Premier league sometimes. Absolutely crazy and where the hell is VAR when refs are making clear and obvious errors? 

Anyway,  happy for a point against a decent West Ham team imo.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 16, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Conceding late from a corner is very annoying. Thought we played well second half and were worth a point. Had two very good chances to go 2-1 up, shame Bergwijn can't finish, and I don't know what happened with Kane's header, obviously saw it at the last second. Oh well. *Might as well give Liverpool the title now,* nobody has been anywhere near consistent enough to chase them.
		
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Bold bit... please feel free! 

Given Mourinho's bus parking and the way we played at the weekend I was worried today was gonna be a god awful game of football, the likes of which hasn't been seen since premier league football was being played in Stoke...

Thank God I was wrong! Great game. If both teams were clinical we'd have been 3+ up at HT and Spurs would have had 2/3 second half. Absolutely chuffed with the result, obviously. But the performance was exceptional.


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## davemc1 (Dec 16, 2020)

Southampton - City on Saturday. Is there an upset on the cards for an away win? 😆


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## hairball_89 (Dec 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			....................... and *if* United win their two games in hand over everyone above them we're 2nd.
Who'd have thought?
		
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Who are they against? And when are they scheduled?

The latter is possibly more important, given there aren't any midweek breaks in the league until march now.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			I watch decisions like this and I honestly question the integrity of the Premier league sometimes. Absolutely crazy and where the hell is VAR when refs are making clear and obvious errors? 

Anyway,  happy for a point against a decent West Ham team imo.
		
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I don't believe var can do anything about yellows or two yellow card offences only straight reds 

I'm sure someone will correct me if I've misspoken 

Good game though. Thought we weren't going to get any chances then bamn


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## Rlburnside (Dec 16, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Conceding late from a corner is very annoying. Thought we played well second half and were worth a point. Had two very good chances to go 2-1 up, shame Bergwijn can't finish, and I don't know what happened with Kane's header, obviously saw it at the last second. Oh well. Might as well give Liverpool the title now, nobody has been anywhere near consistent enough to chase them.
		
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I wouldn’t say Liverpool are a shoe in just yet they weren’t that impressive against Fulham, game panned out as expected and we had the best chances second half, if I was a neutral watching I would want Liverpool to win they play the way the game should be played. 

Although we conceded so much possession and that in turn gives Liverpool the freedom to play and pass it around the game was very close, just goes to show how irrelevant stats can be. 

We nearly done a job on Liverpool and we played very well given the way Mourino wants us to play. 

It’s a strange one as I don’t particularly like the way we play now but we are competing and can hopefully win something this season.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 16, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I assume Liverpool fans that said it was a foul on Salah for a push in the back will agree that Kane should have had a penalty for the challenge by Mane when he missed the header from the corner? Both hands in his back and pushed him.
		
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it didnt replay it.


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Bold bit... please feel free!

Given Mourinho's bus parking and the way we played at the weekend I was worried today was gonna be a god awful game of football, the likes of which hasn't been seen since premier league football was being played in Stoke...

Thank God I was wrong! Great game. If both teams were clinical we'd have been 3+ up at HT and Spurs would have had 2/3 second half. Absolutely chuffed with the result, obviously. But the performance was exceptional.
		
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Yeah, that's fair. We rode the storm first half then conceded a lucky goal, but popped an equaliser in out of nowhere. Then we definitely should have gone 2-1 up. Huge result for you, the difference between being 2nd on GD, and 3 points clear of everyone.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I assume Liverpool fans that said it was a foul on Salah for a push in the back will agree that Kane should have had a penalty for the challenge by Mane when he missed the header from the corner? Both hands in his back and pushed him.
		
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I had you down as better colch....

Obviously not because Kane had a free header and directed the poor shot to the floor, Kane wasn’t impeded.


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## davemc1 (Dec 16, 2020)

Big win for us tonight! You’ve gotta love a last min winner.

The difference in home/away performances have been night and day so far. 

We really need a quality cb lined up on jan 1st. Young Williams had a decent game but them 2 Bergwjn chances were down to his errors


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I wouldn’t say Liverpool are a shoe in just yet they weren’t that impressive against Fulham, game panned out as expected and we had the best chances second half, if I was a neutral watching I would want Liverpool to win *they play the way the game should be played.*

Although we conceded so much possession and that in turn gives Liverpool the freedom to play and pass it around the game was very close, just goes to show how irrelevant stats can be.

We nearly done a job on Liverpool and we played very well given the way Mourino wants us to play.

It’s a strange one as I don’t particularly like the way we play now but we are competing and can hopefully win something this season.
		
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Personally I don't agree with the phrase in bold, but you've probably already worked that out from my earlier posts. I think football beauty is in the eye of the beholder - for example when everyone said that tiki taka Barca team from ten or twelve years ago was playing beautiful football, I found it dull as ditchwater with endless 5 yard passes. Most of my favourite teams have been direct counter-attacking teams, I find that more exciting. Admittedly you need more than one way of playing, as we came unstuck against Palace - I think we couldn't get out of the mentality that we had for the bigger games surrounding it. But the way we played today against Liverpool to my mind is the only way you can play at Anfield and hope to get a result. In fact we managed to create more good chances than I expected to.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2020)

Very good performance from the champions, dominated the game in all the right areas. Tough enough to break down an average 10 men behind the ball, it was always gonna be tough trying to beak down a very good side in Spurs.

I admire how Spurs are now mastering the dark arts of the game, it was like watching a mixture of Mourinho’s Chelsea, Inter and Yernited teams. Even funnier when he comes out with his delusional comments at the end.

I wonder if the press will call him out......


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 16, 2020)

A good performance, but Spurs are dangerous, and when they had their good 10 minutes, could have easily seen us behind.

Great win.


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## Rlburnside (Dec 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Very good performance from the champions, dominated the game in all the right areas. Tough enough to break down an average 10 men behind the ball, it was always gonna be tough trying to beak down a very good side in Spurs.

I admire how Spurs are now mastering the dark arts of the game, it was like watching a mixture of Mourinho’s Chelsea, Inter and Yernited teams. Even funnier when he comes out with his delusional comments at the end.

I wonder if the press will call him out......
		
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Yes you played well but when a team concedes so much possession you will always look better as you have so much time on the ball and so many more passes. 

Your two full backs didn’t dominant as well as they normally do and it’s not clear to me where you dominated anywhere on the pitch. 

Both teams played well but in very different ways and we could have won with the better chances in the second half, so I would say the team that played the best football won.


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## Slime (Dec 16, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Who are they against? And when are they scheduled?

The latter is possibly more important, given there aren't any midweek breaks in the league until march now.
		
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One is tomorrow, against Sheff Utd, don't know when the other one is and I'm sure that's against Villa.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes you played well but when a team concedes so much possession you will always look better as you have so much time on the ball and so many more passes.

*Your two full backs didn’t dominant as well as they normally do and* *it’s not clear to me where you dominated anywhere on the pitch.*

Both teams played well but in very different ways and we could have won with the better chances in the second half, so I would say the team that played the best football won.
		
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No they never, Curtis Jones did, but they still played an integral role into getting the result.

The ball in possesion
Turnover in play
Created most chances

Its all well in good dominating the ball but if you do sod all with iI, it’s pointless. See Arsenal last week against your lot.

I agree both teams played well though it was a game of Defence V Attack.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			One is tomorrow, against Sheff Utd, don't know when the other one is and I'm sure that's against Villa.
		
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Fair enough. Watch out for villa... They're a tough game! 🤣


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## Rlburnside (Dec 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No they never, Curtis Jones did, but they still played an integral role into getting the result.

The ball in possesion
Turnover in play
Created most chances

Its all well in good dominating the ball but if you do sod all with iI, it’s pointless. See Arsenal last week against your lot.

I agree both teams played well though it was a game of Defence V Attack.
		
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Well you dominated the ball all game and done sod all exept for a lucky deflection and a last minute goal


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## Orikoru (Dec 17, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes you played well but when a team concedes so much possession you will always look better as you have so much time on the ball and so many more passes.

Your two full backs didn’t dominant as well as they normally do and it’s not clear to me where you dominated anywhere on the pitch.

Both teams played well but in very different ways and we could have won with the better chances in the second half, so I would say the team that played the best football won.
		
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In fairness on the full backs comment, it seems that we changed our usual shape to more of a 4-4-2 - I can only imagine that was so we could use Bergwijn and Sissoko out wide specifically to track and mark their full backs and stop them having any impact (while leaving Son and Kane up for the counter). So I guess that part of our gameplan had the desired effect.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 17, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Well you dominated the ball all game and done sod all exept for a lucky deflection and a last minute goal 

Click to expand...

That was enough😁


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## Stuart_C (Dec 17, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			In fairness on the full backs comment, it seems that we changed our usual shape to more of a 4-4-2 I can only imagine that was so we could use Bergwijn and Sissoko out wide specifically to track and mark their full backs and stop them having any impact (while leaving Son and Kane up for the counter). So I guess that part of our gameplan had the desired effect.
		
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442?? More like 6-4-0 😄

I like counter attack football but you've got to be clinical for it to work effectively. No doubt JM will get spurs  more clinical over the next few months.


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## GG26 (Dec 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It looked a penalty to me to be fair. Gormless by Gomes, he shouldn't have put a foot there. I'd have been miffed had it happened to us.

Any reason why Perez isn't starting? He improved Leicester no end when he came on.
		
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Yesterday was the best I’ve seen Perez play, he is usually lightweight and gives the ball away too easily.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 17, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			I watch decisions like this and I honestly question the integrity of the Premier league sometimes. Absolutely crazy and where the hell is VAR when refs are making clear and obvious errors?

Anyway,  happy for a point against a decent West Ham team imo.
		
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 I had a horrible feeling that we'd get beat by 3 and 1st half it looked like we might. Palace are a decent outfit and can cause anyone a problem when their front 3 fires. Happy to take the point and move on -


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## Rlburnside (Dec 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			442?? More like 6-4-0 😄

I like counter attack football but you've got to be clinical for it to work effectively. No doubt JM will get spurs  more clinical over the next few months.
		
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To be fair we have been clinical in the run up to the games against you, I can only remember one time we were caught out of position in second half and for all the possession Liverpool had we looked comfortable at the back and didn’t look like conceding.

I think JM will be bitterly disappointed as the team played exactly as he wanted and but for the Bergwijn miss and the Kane header he will feel we should have won the match.

But it’s done now and you got 3 points and top of the league 👍


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## adam6177 (Dec 17, 2020)

Great result against a tough spurs side last night.... Very easily could have been a different result.

What gives me some heart is that if the ridiculous var decisions against Everton and Brighton hadn't been invented by the officials we'd currently be 7 points clear..... And all this without really playing particularly well.

I think spurs will be there or there abouts come the end of the season along with Chelsea (my pick before season started) and man city.

Shaping to be an entertaining campaign.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2020)




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## Liverbirdie (Dec 17, 2020)

I was thinking as a Liverpool fan last night, if I could take 1 club out of the title race, who would I pick?

1 month ago would have been city.

3 weeks ago would have been Chelsea, although 2 straight defeats and their record against the top 10 has since altered this.

1 week ago would have been Spurs, although still think they will have to be lucky with injuries to stay up there all season.

Probably back to City now, no others were considered.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 17, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I assume Liverpool fans that said it was a foul on Salah for a push in the back will agree that Kane should have had a penalty for the challenge by Mane when he missed the header from the corner? Both hands in his back and pushed him.
		
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Had his hands on him but he certainly didn’t push him.
If he pushed him forward Kane would have been under the ball and put his header over the bar but he didn’t.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2020)

PL vote against 5 subs, apparently vote was 10-10.🤷‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			PL vote against 5 subs, apparently vote was 10-10.🤷‍♂️
		
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Is that more against than last time? It feels like it is.

Do they identify which way clubs vote?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is that more against than last time? It feels like it is.

Do they identify which way clubs vote?
		
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I thought it was 14 against last time, not sure.🤷‍♂️

The article I read didn’t list the teams.
Edit: 
A Villa, Burnley, C Palace, Fulham Leicester C, Leeds U, Newcastle U, Sheffield U, West Ham U, Wolverhampton W


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## pendodave (Dec 17, 2020)

Killing a bit of time watching the villa game.
It must drive Grealish up the wall, playing with the muppets on his own team. Keeps setting them up...they keep mucking it up.
Losing Barclay must be a real blow to him, he was at least operating on the same wavelength.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2020)

Good to see Mourinho whinging and crying 😭

FIFA Awards Time

Klopp manager of the year

World 12

Alisson; Alexander-Arnold, Van Dijk, Ramos, Davies; Kimmich, De Bruyne, Alcantara; Messi, Lewandowski, Ronaldo.

messi and Ronaldo ?! Are they just a given based on name now

And Lewandowski wins Player of the Year


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2020)

Neuer wins Goalkeeper of the year and doesn’t make the team of the year!
Just as bad as spoty these FIFA Awards.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2020)

Trying to watch the football on Amazon Prime Firestick is horrific- 15 mins and still it wont start


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



*He pushed him* - made a meal of it etc etc *but he still pushed him which is a foul at the end of the day *, *he made contact using his hands to push him* , may have been looking for the contact etc but the Fulham player complied. *If that happens to someone in the penalty area then the ref gives a penalty. It’s a foul - however soft it may be*

Click to expand...




clubchamp98 said:



*How hard does a push have to be to be a foul?
A push is a push.!*

Click to expand...




clubchamp98 said:



			Had his hands on him but he certainly didn’t push him.
If he pushed him forward Kane would have been under the ball and put his header over the bar but he didn’t.
		
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He had his hands on him and put pressure on his back which is a push. 

How hard does a push have to be to be a foul? A push is a push.

He made contact using his hands to push him. It's a foul - however soft it may be.

And my original post was slightly tongue in cheek. I don't think either were fouls but interested to see that those Liverpool fans saying that a push on Salah was a foul but a push by Mane wasn't.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Trying to watch the football on Amazon Prime Firestick is horrific- 15 mins and still it wont start
		
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Firesticks seem to be the issue. Do you have any other way to watch ?

We watched on our smart TV app first half yest and second half on a Roku box 

Both fine no issues 

Guy I played with today had no end of issues with a firestick


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 17, 2020)

Henderson obviously been training with De Gea.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2020)

Good to see Henderson still playing well for Sheff UTD 😁

Another player with a hamstring gone - either they are being highlighted more or it’s happening more because of the schedule


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Henderson obviously been training with De Gea.
		
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They’ll blame it on him training with Pickford for England.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 17, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			He had his hands on him and put pressure on his back which is a push.

How hard does a push have to be to be a foul? A push is a push.

He made contact using his hands to push him. It's a foul - however soft it may be.

And my original post was slightly tongue in cheek. I don't think either were fouls but interested to see that those Liverpool fans saying that a push on Salah was a foul but a push by Mane wasn't.
		
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Players put their hands on each other all the time.
A push is a push yes but it wasn’t a push on Kane he didn’t push him .
It was just a really bad sitter


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## Orikoru (Dec 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			They’ll blame it on him training with Pickford for England.

Click to expand...

Seems like being an English goalkeeper is an incurable disease these days.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 17, 2020)

Poor decision by WBA in my opinion https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55349406

Not sure Allardyce is the answer and hoping he'll drag them into the relegation mire and his reputation finally gets shot.


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## Orikoru (Dec 17, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Poor decision by WBA in my opinion https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55349406

Not sure Allardyce is the answer and hoping he'll drag them into the relegation mire and his reputation finally gets shot.
		
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They're already in relegation mire how can he drag them into it? He will pick up points against the teams around them. Not sure if it will be enough as they have a really poor squad. But Sheffield Utd look dead and buried so that's one spot taken care of anyway.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 17, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			They're already in relegation mire how can he drag them into it? He will pick up points against the teams around them. Not sure if it will be enough as they have a really poor squad. But Sheffield Utd look dead and buried so that's one spot taken care of anyway.
		
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Agree Sheffield Utd are done but a lot of clubs get new manager syndrome and string a few unexpected results together. It is so tight down there that a couple of wins could get them out of the relegation zone. Big game for Big Sam with a local derby at the weekend, although Liverpool after that and then Leeds so a tough ask even for Sam the Saviour


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## Rlburnside (Dec 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			PL vote against 5 subs, apparently vote was 10-10.🤷‍♂️
		
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Good


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## Tashyboy (Dec 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			PL vote against 5 subs, apparently vote was 10-10.🤷‍♂️
		
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that will be overturned, it’s gone to VAR. 🤔


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 17, 2020)

Has Ramsdale been training with Henderson and Pickford in the England squad?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2020)

Utd have scored some stunning goals tonight.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Utd have scored some stunning goals tonight.
		
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What a difference Pogba makes 😉


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 17, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			He had his hands on him and put pressure on his back which is a push.

How hard does a push have to be to be a foul? A push is a push.

He made contact using his hands to push him. It's a foul - however soft it may be.

And my original post was slightly tongue in cheek. I don't think either were fouls but interested to see that those Liverpool fans saying that a push on Salah was a foul but a push by Mane wasn't.
		
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Were you fighting the good fight after seeing the foul on Salah against Fulham????


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## pauljames87 (Dec 17, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Poor decision by WBA in my opinion https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55349406

Not sure Allardyce is the answer and hoping he'll drag them into the relegation mire and his reputation finally gets shot.
		
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Sam doesn't do relegation.. which means he will leave if they are doomed to go down 

However he will "respect the point" 

West brom will be hard to beat now


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## Junior (Dec 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What a difference Pogba in the shop window makes 😉
		
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Corrected that for you mate


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## Slime (Dec 17, 2020)

Six consecutive away wins having gone behind in each of them and scoring three goals in each of them!
Bizarre.
A bit of good home form wouldn't be a bad thing.
Rashford was superb tonight, shop window Paul was a proper player too!


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Were you fighting the good fight after seeing the foul on Salah against Fulham????
		
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Which one?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 17, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Which one?
		
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Shown yourself up there then havent you?


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Shown yourself up there then havent you?

Click to expand...

How? By not recalling on which particular occasion one of your serial divers hit the deck in a specific match? And this isn't a pop at Salah or Liverpool because all teams have several players that "initiate contact", "exaggerate contact", "look for the foul" or "dive". Let me know which foul on Salah and I'll give you my opinion.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 18, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			How? By not recalling on which particular occasion one of your serial divers hit the deck in a specific match? And this isn't a pop at Salah or Liverpool because all teams have several players that "initiate contact", "exaggerate contact", "look for the foul" or "dive". Let me know which foul on Salah and I'll give you my opinion.
		
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The one you quoted earlier.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The one you quoted earlier. 

Click to expand...

The one in the build up to the goal? In which case I said at the time that I didn't think it was a foul. But I was then told that it was a push and therefore a foul. It didn't have to be a hard push to be a foul so I assumed that those Liverpool fans also thought the push on Kane was a foul. 

And I've already pointed out that my post was slightly tongue in cheek and I didn't think either challenge was a foul.


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## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			The one in the build up to the goal? In which case I said at the time that I didn't think it was a foul. But I was then told that it was a push and therefore a foul. It didn't have to be a hard push to be a foul so I assumed that those Liverpool fans also thought the push on Kane was a foul.

And I've already pointed out that my post was slightly tongue in cheek and I didn't think either challenge was a foul.
		
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Surely you know by now that when Salah gets a touch, a brush or a breath of wind it's always a foul.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Surely you know by now that when Salah gets a touch, a brush or a breath of wind it's always a foul.
		
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How about it’s easier to say 

Every single player will go down at the slightest touch if they feel it will gain an advantage - it’s just a shame that the media and some fans only want to highlight foreign players that do when their English counterparts are very skilled in the same dark arts 

It also doesn’t help when commentators and pundits etc come up with “entitled” to go down and when the touch is enough to foul them but they don’t go down the referees don’t give it 

Simulation /diving etc has been in the game for decades now , and it won’t be eradicated unless they want to red card players for it and even then it’s going to be subjective 

In regards Kane chance , no idea if he was pushed , they didn’t show a replay of it, Salah was pushed even if it was slight and it whilst it wasn’t enough for Salah to go down he wouldn’t get the foul if he didn’t.

One of the biggest issues and I think the media are now talking about it is Kane’s actions when the ball is in the air and he challenges then watches the opponent , turns and arch’s  his back to get the contact , goes down like he has been shot but then the oppo is in air and about the land dangerously - it’s actions that are going to cause serous injury to a player , but because it’s golden boy it doesn’t get the critisim, if it was Salah or indeed any other foreign player then they would be crucified daily for it - what’s worse in the game ? 


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ns-harry-kane-dangerous-signature-move-258079


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## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How about it’s easier to say

Every single player will go down at the slightest touch if they feel it will gain an advantage - it’s just a shame that the media and some fans only want to highlight foreign players that do when their English counterparts are very skilled in the same dark arts

It also doesn’t help when commentators and pundits etc come up with “entitled” to go down and when the touch is enough to foul them but they don’t go down the referees don’t give it

Simulation /diving etc has been in the game for decades now , and it won’t be eradicated unless they want to red card players for it and even then it’s going to be subjective

In regards Kane chance , no idea if he was pushed , they didn’t show a replay of it, Salah was pushed even if it was slight and it whilst it wasn’t enough for Salah to go down he wouldn’t get the foul if he didn’t.

One of the biggest issues and I think the media are now talking about it is Kane’s actions when the ball is in the air and he challenges then watches the opponent , turns and arch’s  his back to get the contact , goes down like he has been shot but then the oppo is in air and about the land dangerously - it’s actions that are going to cause serous injury to a player , but because it’s golden boy it doesn’t get the critisim, if it was Salah or indeed any other foreign player then they would be crucified daily for it - what’s worse in the game ?


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ns-harry-kane-dangerous-signature-move-258079

Click to expand...

Plenty of things on a football pitch _could_ cause serious injury to a player, i.e. slide tackles, competing for a header (see Raul Jimenez). Kane is simply trying to win a free kick for his team by backing in, Alan Shearer did it for years, then Drogba did it, it's not new. It's up to the ref to decide which way to give the decision. People might be calling it dangerous play, but the refs are giving the free kick to Kane so obviously they don't agree with that. The Lallana one was obviously VAR reviewed and still awarded to us, as it was a penalty. They asked Gary Cahill about it the other week (an actual player who was playing against Kane that weekend, rather than the opinion of a media hack or Twitter 'expert') and he said it was stuff and nonsense.  https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-tottenham-forward-over-backing-in-criticism


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Plenty of things on a football pitch _could_ cause serious injury to a player, i.e. slide tackles, competing for a header (see Raul Jimenez). Kane is simply trying to win a free kick for his team by backing in, Alan Shearer did it for years, then Drogba did it, it's not new. It's up to the ref to decide which way to give the decision. People might be calling it dangerous play, but the refs are giving the free kick to Kane so obviously they don't agree with that. The Lallana one was obviously VAR reviewed and still awarded to us, as it was a penalty. They asked Gary Cahill about it the other week (an actual player who was playing against Kane that weekend, rather than the opinion of a media hack or Twitter 'expert') and he said it was stuff and nonsense.  https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-tottenham-forward-over-backing-in-criticism

Click to expand...

So you seriously think there is nothing wrong with Kane backing into a player whilst they are in the air to get the contact and then having no clue how that player will land - I guess it wouldn’t be a foul then if the player landed on his neck because Kane arched the back as he does ?

They have outlawed challenging in the air in rugby for the exact reason of being unable to control a player landing 

Kane isn’t actually challenging is he ? He has a look and then backs in whilst the player is in the air and then goes down himself - is it part of the game until someone breaks their neck ? Would you say the same if happened to Kane ?


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## Beezerk (Dec 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Plenty of things on a football pitch _could_ cause serious injury to a player, i.e. slide tackles, competing for a header (see Raul Jimenez). Kane is simply trying to win a free kick for his team by backing in, Alan Shearer did it for years, then Drogba did it, it's not new. It's up to the ref to decide which way to give the decision. People might be calling it dangerous play, but the refs are giving the free kick to Kane so obviously they don't agree with that. The Lallana one was obviously VAR reviewed and still awarded to us, as it was a penalty. They asked Gary Cahill about it the other week (an actual player who was playing against Kane that weekend, rather than the opinion of a media hack or Twitter 'expert') and he said it was stuff and nonsense.  https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-tottenham-forward-over-backing-in-criticism

Click to expand...

Why did you bite 🙉
You know there's going to be 5 pages of bilge now from El Anchorito 🤣


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## Slime (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In regards Kane chance , no idea if he was pushed , they didn’t show a replay of it, Salah was pushed even if it was slight and it whilst *it wasn’t enough for Salah to go down* he wouldn’t get the foul if he didn’t.
		
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So, you're admitting that he dived, and therefore, should have been yellow carded?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2020)

Slime said:



			So, you're admitting that he dived, and therefore, should have been yellow carded?
		
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It should have been a foul against Salah and then a yellow card for simulation- but it’s never going to happen


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## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you seriously think there is nothing wrong with Kane backing into a player whilst they are in the air to get the contact and then having no clue how that player will land - I guess it wouldn’t be a foul then if the player landed on his neck because Kane arched the back as he does ?

They have outlawed challenging in the air in rugby for the exact reason of being unable to control a player landing

Kane isn’t actually challenging is he ? He has a look and then backs in whilst the player is in the air and then goes down himself - is it part of the game until someone breaks their neck ? Would you say the same if happened to Kane ?
		
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It's a contact sport. Man's game. etc. 

As I said, if it's a foul, the referee should give a foul, then he'll probably stop bothering. It's not for me to say if I like it or not. He's not trying to injure anyone, just win a free kick, and the refs are giving them so I'm sure he'll carry on.


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## Kellfire (Dec 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It's a contact sport. Man's game. etc. 

As I said, if it's a foul, the referee should give a foul, then he'll probably stop bothering. It's not for me to say if I like it or not. He's not trying to injure anyone, just win a free kick, and the refs are giving them so I'm sure he'll carry on.
		
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Kane’s backing in is disgusting and could seriously injure someone. Why not just call it what it is?


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## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Kane’s backing in is disgusting and could seriously injure someone. Why not just call it what it is?
		
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We are calling what it is - backing in to steal a free kick. I wouldn't call it disgusting unless you believe he is deliberately trying to hurt people, which I would suggest is complete rubbish.


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## Kellfire (Dec 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			We are calling what it is - backing in to steal a free kick. I wouldn't call it disgusting unless you believe he is deliberately trying to hurt people, which I would suggest is complete rubbish.
		
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It maybe isn’t deliberate but he risks flipping players over if he catches them in the wrong way and he knows that. He’s doing it to put fear into defenders so they are scared to jump against him imo.


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## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			It maybe isn’t deliberate but he risks flipping players over if he catches them in the wrong way and he knows that. He’s doing it to put fear into defenders so they are scared to jump against him imo.
		
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He does it because while he might be thick in every day life, on the football pitch he's a devious and clever.He's had enough people endanger his safety with ankle breaking tackles over the last few years that I don't think that aspect is a consideration to him. His attitude will be it's football and injuries happen. He just wants a free kick, and an edge in any game. Remember what Jose said he wants in his team - intelligent see you next Tuesdays. So there's no chance he'll be telling Kane to stop it.


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## Kellfire (Dec 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He does it because while he might be thick in every day life, on the football pitch he's a devious and clever. He's had enough people endanger his safety with ankle breaking tackles over the last few years that I don't think that aspect is a consideration to him. His attitude will be it's football and injuries happen. He just wants a free kick, and an edge in any game. Remember what Jose said he wants in his team - intelligent see you next Tuesdays. So there's no chance he'll be telling Kane to stop it.
		
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Injuries happen, absolutely and we can accept them if they happen in a fair attempt for the ball. There’s nothing fair about making a back into a player who’s off the ground and that vulnerable. Jose may not tell him to stop but I hope the authorities do.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 18, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			The one in the build up to the goal? In which case I said at the time that I didn't think it was a foul. But I was then told that it was a push and therefore a foul. It didn't have to be a hard push to be a foul so I assumed that those Liverpool fans also thought the push on Kane was a foul.

And I've already pointed out that my post was slightly tongue in cheek and I didn't think either challenge was a foul.
		
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Yes the one in the build up to the Fulham goal.

The one one Salah, was a shove rather than a push. 2 hands outstretched into the back, moved Mo a yard and under the ball so he couldn't head it, its a foul all day long.

The Mane one wasn't as obvious (not even replayed by the cameras) and no histrionics from Kane.

There are shoves, pushes, "easing out", obstructions and much more in football and unless we fit pressure pads into their shirts, and have a newton meter counter with the VAR official, we can't have a definitive answer to what is and isn't a foul. Its a subjective one, but some more obvious to football fans than others, or at least ones that understand the game.

But don't give me that codswallop about Liverpool fans campaigning for things just because we think we were denied a foul in one game nonsense, or can you issue guidelines for us, please. Should we campaign and check out every match in the 4 leagues, or also include semi-pro, or just stick to the Premiership?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He does it because while he might be thick in every day life, on the football pitch he's a devious and clever.  He's had enough people endanger his safety with ankle breaking tackles over the last few years that I don't think that aspect is a consideration to him. His attitude will be it's football and injuries happen. He just want a free kick, and an edge in any game. Remember what Jose said he wants in his team - intelligent see you next Tuesdays. So there's no chance he'll be telling Kane to stop it.
		
Click to expand...

There is a difference between someone being tackled and getting an injury and someone manipulating another player whilst they are in the air and having zero control on how they will land -it’s very dangerous and thankfully it’s starting to be highlighted because you don’t want someone to land on their head and have real serious injury all because of Kane backing into him whilst he is in the air. I’m amazed you really can’t see how dangerous it is - and I will be amazed also if Kane doesn’t understand.

If a foreign player was doing it then the media would be all over it like a rash and the minute Harry Kane is on the receiving end the reaction will be hugely different. Maybe that’s what will stop him - someone doing it to him and he lands badly


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you seriously think there is nothing wrong with Kane backing into a player whilst they are in the air to get the contact and then having no clue how that player will land - I guess it wouldn’t be a foul then if the player landed on his neck because Kane arched the back as he does ?

They have outlawed challenging in the air in rugby for the exact reason of being unable to control a player landing

Kane isn’t actually challenging is he ? He has a look and then backs in whilst the player is in the air and then goes down himself - is it part of the game until someone breaks their neck ? Would you say the same if happened to Kane ?
		
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Kane's "speciality" foul isn't actually backing in, its more backing under the player.

When the player gets up early, which most good centre halves do, Kane cant win it, so he backs in under him forcing the player over the top of him, and in a highly dangerous manner, and it should be a free kick to the other team, and if serious enough a yellow or red. It literally could break someone's neck.

That Lallana one was a farcical one and one of the worst decisions I've seen all season  - that VAR ref should have had a 3 month ban for giving that as a penalty. Atrocious decision.


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## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is a difference between someone being tackled and getting an injury and someone manipulating another player whilst they are in the air and having zero control on how they will land -it’s very dangerous and thankfully it’s starting to be highlighted because you don’t want someone to land on their head and have real serious injury all because of Kane backing into him whilst he is in the air. I’m amazed you really can’t see how dangerous it is - and I will be amazed also if Kane doesn’t understand.

If a foreign player was doing it then the media would be all over it like a rash and the minute Harry Kane is on the receiving end the reaction will be hugely different. Maybe that’s what will stop him - someone doing it to him and he lands badly
		
Click to expand...

My point is that I'm struggling to muster any outrage about it when it's currently winning us free kicks and penalties. It's up to the referees to crack down on it if they start to deem it a foul the other way - not me, or Jose or Kane himself.

I don't understand your point about the media, as far as I saw this _was _all over the media for about a week.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Surely you know by now that when Salah gets a touch, a brush or a breath of wind it's always a foul.
		
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Finally, the penny has dropped. Well done Ori......


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## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2020)

Junior said:



			Corrected that for you mate
		
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Sorry Junior I couldn't help it 😀

Who buys him on his form over the last few seasons? I can't think if anyone daft enough, not even PSG....


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			My point is that I'm struggling to muster any outrage about it when it's currently winning us free kicks and penalties. It's up to the referees to crack down on it if they start to deem it a foul the other way - not me, or Jose or Kane himself.

I don't understand your point about the media, as far as I saw this _was _all over the media for about a week.
		
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So what we can grasp is you aren’t bothered about other players getting injured because in the process Spurs gain a free kick ?


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## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what we can grasp is you aren’t bothered about other players getting injured because in the process Spurs gain a free kick ?
		
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I'm not bothered about something which apparently is worthy of outrage, but so far the refs have not only not deemed it not a foul, but in fact have given a foul the other way. And that a Premier League defender has said he's totally unbothered about as well. So perhaps it is being blown out of proportion a tad.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry Junior I couldn't help it 😀

Who buys him on his form over the last few seasons? I can't think if anyone daft enough, not even PSG....
		
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PSG and Madrid would both snap him up - if anything the marketing would be huge , Madrid etc would make a fortune out of him


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



*PSG *and Madrid *would both snap him up* - if anything the marketing would be huge , Madrid etc would make a fortune out of him
		
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Pogba + £100/120 million for Mbappe?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I'm not bothered about something which apparently is worthy of outrage, but so far the refs have not only not deemed it not a foul, but in fact have given a foul the other way. And that a Premier League defender has said he's totally unbothered about as well. So perhaps it is being blown out of proportion a tad.
		
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https://www.sportbible.com/football...MIENefgCg4VRAYLAzgQaeOVJj7X_RzubGXEp5-_7lLHjo


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## Fade and Die (Dec 18, 2020)

Slime said:



			So, you're admitting that he dived, and therefore, should have been yellow carded?
		
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Kane is not the only one with a “signature” move.....😁
(great soundtrack btw)


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## Beezerk (Dec 18, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Kane is not the only one with a “signature” move.....😁
(great soundtrack btw)






Click to expand...

Poetry in motion that one


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Kane is not the only one with a “signature” move.....😁
(great soundtrack btw)






Click to expand...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/42392410
🙄


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## Fade and Die (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/42392410
🙄
		
Click to expand...

Done it once, got a retrospective ban. Didn’t do it again. Maybe if that happened to Sallah he would stop this nonsense


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Done it once, got a retrospective ban. Didn’t do it again. Maybe if that happened to Sallah he would stop this nonsense
		
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Let's face facts, it's not only Salah and Liverpool that have players that dive. I'm sure that a compilation like that could be made for every club in the country, not just the Premier League clubs. Even in League Two every club has players that "go down easily", "look to initiate contact" or blatantly dive. Why single out Salah. Without even thinking for more than 5 minutes I could've come up with a list of 20+ players to make a similar compilation of.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Done it once, got a retrospective ban. Didn’t do it again. Maybe if that happened to Sallah he would stop this nonsense ?
		
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As already mentioned every single team has players that dive , pretty much any player will go down easily given half the chance if they know it will gain them an advantage- been happening for decades and will continue to happen , they had a chance to stamp it out. The media and some fans will always focus on other teams players and mainly foreign players without even looking inwards  - Kane , Sterling are two of the worst in the league but they don’t get called just like I doubt you would call out your own players if they dived and got a penalty - you would cheer them result and then point fingers at others instead.

Salah and Mane should stay on their feet but they won’t change just like all the others until every player stops and until the refs always give the correct fouls


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Done it once, got a retrospective ban. Didn’t do it again. Maybe if that happened to Sallah he would stop this nonsense
		
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So dosnt make sense to get rid of the panel , as unlike most things football this actually worked.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 18, 2020)

We’ve just had the 3rd anniversary since the last PL player was retrospectively banned for diving.

Therefore it’s safe to say it’s either sorted or doesn’t exist.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As already mentioned every single team has players that dive , pretty much any player will go down easily given half the chance if they know it will gain them an advantage- been happening for decades and will continue to happen , they had a chance to stamp it out. The media and some fans will always focus on other teams players and* mainly foreign players* without even looking inwards  - Kane , Sterling are two of the worst in the league but they don’t get called just like I doubt you would call out your own players if they dived and got a penalty - you would cheer them result and then point fingers at others instead.

Salah and Mane should stay on their feet but they won’t change just like all the others until every player stops and until the refs always give the correct fouls
		
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Why do you say this? Apart from Sallah I would say Grealish, Kane, delli Alli and Rashford are some of the worst culprits.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2020)

I see that Millwall and my own team aren't going to face any further action from the FA for fans booing players taking the knee before the game. While I disagree with anyone that boos while players take the knee I don't see how the FA could have come to any other decision, or why it needed an investigation in the first place. If you allow the freedom of speech/expression for players to take the knee you also have to allow the freedom of speech/expression of those that are opposed to it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55365369


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Why do you say this? Apart from Sallah I would say Grealish, Kane, delli Alli and Rashford are some of the worst culprits.
		
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That’s the exact point - they are some of the worst yet Salah , Richarlinson , Mane etc as well as other foreign players are the ones highlighted by media and fans as being diversz


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 18, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I see that Millwall and my own team aren't going to face any further action from the FA for fans booing players taking the knee before the game. While I disagree with anyone that boos while players take the knee I don't see how the FA could have come to any other decision, or why it needed an investigation in the first place. If you allow the freedom of speech/expression for players to take the knee you also have to allow the freedom of speech/expression of those that are opposed to it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55365369

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Surely it depends on why they are booing?

If it was purely against the gesture then I can sort of see what you’re saying.

But if they are booing the reason behind the knee then I disagree, we go mad in this Country when English players face racial abuse abroad and imo the FA have once again shown how weak they are.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Surely it depends on why they are booing?

If it was purely against the gesture then I can sort of see what you’re saying.

But if they are booing the reason behind the knee then I disagree, we go mad in this Country when English players face racial abuse abroad and imo the FA have once again shown how weak they are.
		
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Don't get me wrong, if they are booing the reason behind taking the knee then any club, including Colchester, deserve to have the book thrown at them. If they are booing the politics behind the BLM movement then to me that's different. The difficulty is in proving why that minority were booing. I do think that now the FA have made a statement saying that players taking the knee is to promote equality and not in favour of the BLM movement that it makes things clearer. I fully support players choosing to take the knee if that's what they want to do. Personally I don't think they should because of the link to the political side of BLM, but if they choose to use that to promote equality then I won't object to it and would certainly never boo them for doing it. To be fair, our chairman has come out and made a statement that any fan booing players taking the knee is not welcome at the club and he will refund the ticket cost of any fan who is not happy with the players doing it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 18, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Don't get me wrong, if they are booing the reason behind taking the knee then any club, including Colchester, deserve to have the book thrown at them. If they are booing the politics behind the BLM movement then to me that's different. The difficulty is in proving why that minority were booing. I do think that now the FA have made a statement saying that players taking the knee is to promote equality and not in favour of the BLM movement that it makes things clearer. I fully support players choosing to take the knee if that's what they want to do. Personally I don't think they should because of the link to the political side of BLM, but if they choose to use that to promote equality then I won't object to it and would certainly never boo them for doing it. To be fair, our chairman has come out and made a statement that any fan booing players taking the knee is not welcome at the club and he will refund the ticket cost of any fan who is not happy with the players doing it.
		
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Totally get what you’re saying, but the FA in the past have gone after players who made social media posts on various subjects when they were 14/15 and punished them, age or inexperience ignored, so to make a stance after there has been booing is closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.


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## DanFST (Dec 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/42392410
🙄
		
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Wahhh everyone else does it. So ours is fine. 

Lanzini dived, got castigated by the manager and the FA. Moyes has made it clear he won't tolerate it and as such we don't have players that do it. Maybe get your own house in order before complaining about everyone else. 

(could also explain why we are ****)


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## hairball_89 (Dec 19, 2020)

Red men 3 up but the score line does NOT represent the game! If I were a palace fan, I’d definitely feel hard done by!

Taki definitely offside for that free kick at the end, surely? Probably a good job Trent didn’t score!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

I know I'm thinking of a fantasy football view but what is the point of bringing Salah on? Really defeats his argument for 5 subs

He needs a rest yes so on bench 

Has a rest 

4-0 up why not bring on orgi ? Not giving him a rest really ..


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## hairball_89 (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I know I'm thinking of a fantasy football view but what is the point of bringing Salah on? Really defeats his argument for 5 subs

He needs a rest yes so on bench

Has a rest

4-0 up why not bring on orgi ? Not giving him a rest really ..
		
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Probably an agreement Mane gets an hour and he has half an hour. That’s what they’ve been doing so far where possible. 

Why not origi? Mainly because he’s not very good!

Jones on instead of Ox when he needs minutes? That is a bit odd though.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I know I'm thinking of a fantasy football view but what is the point of bringing Salah on? Really defeats his argument for 5 subs

He needs a rest yes so on bench

Has a rest

4-0 up why not bring on orgi ? Not giving him a rest really ..
		
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They quoted this morning that liverpool used no subs at all in the week. It does tend to undermine the argument.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They quoted this morning that liverpool used no subs at all in the week. It does tend to undermine the argument.
		
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His argument is completely flawed .. orgi may be rubbish but at 4-0 up it don't overly matter 

If mane needs a rest give him a rest 

I saw his no subs in week. That defeats the entire 5 sub argument


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			His argument is completely flawed .. orgi may be rubbish but at 4-0 up it don't overly matter

If mane needs a rest give him a rest

I saw his no subs in week. That defeats the entire 5 sub argument
		
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Agreed, at 4-0 you just need a body on the pitch, not one of your stars.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Agreed, at 4-0 you just need a body on the pitch, not one of your stars.
		
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Don't get me wrong I've got an assist for him lol but still if you moan about the 5 sub rules act like it actually matters


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## hairball_89 (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't get me wrong I've got an assist for him lol but still if you moan about the 5 sub rules act like it actually matters
		
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make that an assist and 2 goals!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			make that an assist and 2 goals!
		
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Must have been the rest


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## SteveW86 (Dec 19, 2020)

So with Liverpool not hitting their stride really in the league so far, are we about to see them go on a run and open up a big gap before the Champions League starts up again? 

A good win against Spurs, then backing it up with that result is a great way to start Christmas for them


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2020)

Outstanding today - all those goals were of a superb high quality , some brilliant play and at times it was the best they have played for a while. Ruthless when given the chance. Nice week break now. Good to see Ox coming back and looking sharp.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			So with Liverpool not hitting their stride really in the league so far, are we about to see them go on a run and open up a big gap before the Champions League starts up again?

A good win against Spurs, then backing it up with that result is a great way to start Christmas for them
		
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Could do, they have the quality and the fact they have more rest than just about anybody else over the next few weeks, why not?


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## hairball_89 (Dec 19, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			So with Liverpool not hitting their stride really in the league so far, are we about to see them go on a run and open up a big gap before the Champions League starts up again?

A good win against Spurs, then backing it up with that result is a great way to start Christmas for them
		
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Getting through this last few weeks from the international break to Christmas was really important. theres now a period until end of feb/mid March where *every* team in the league is playing twice a week. We’re used to it. The bigger teams are all used to it. But this is the period where we (as a group of teams - Spurs, Chelsea, city, Utd) all will be looking to pull away from the others given the sheer number of games.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 19, 2020)

I just have a bit of a feeling that Liverpool are hitting their stride and what was looking like a very competitive season could well turn into a bit of a canter for them to retain the title.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Getting through this last few weeks from the international break to Christmas was really important. theres now a period until end of feb/mid March where *every* team in the league is playing twice a week. We’re used to it. The bigger teams are all used to it. But this is the period where we (as a group of teams - Spurs, Chelsea, city, Utd) all will be looking to pull away from the others given the sheer number of games.
		
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No there isn’t, that will only happen if you stay in the Cup and don’t have replays, there are dates set aside for every Club over weekends and midweek.
ie: no midweek between 8th & 17th Jan, or  6th & 13th + 20th & 27th Feb, Lpool also have a 7 day break from 21st to 28th Jan as do other Clubs.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I just have a bit of a feeling that Liverpool are hitting their stride and what was looking like a very competitive season could well turn into a bit of a canter for them to retain the title.
		
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Long way to go yet and a lot of big games to play - two big results in the past two games and we have players returning from injury as well. Its been a tough period but many to come - glad we aren’t in the league cup and have a little break before the Xmas schedule hits. Going to be hard for all managers to keep the squad fit and in a groove - thought he did well with Mane and Mo today and also to give Minamino a full run out.

On a little tangent what a player Curtis Jones is - Phil Foden gets lots of hype but not enough games for City where as Jones is looking like the real deal and it’s happening because he is being trusted and getting regular game time - I thought with Silva leaving it would be time for Foden to burst through , what’s the reason for Pep not starting him more ?


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## davemc1 (Dec 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They quoted this morning that liverpool used no subs at all in the week. It does tend to undermine the argument.
		
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Lots of things being thrown at klopp, some I’ve understanding with, but not this! 
How about in a top of the league clash  he had no one to call on. What part of that bench was stronger than the team he had on the pitch?


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2020)

turns out having a boot head high in the penalty box isnt a penalty, who knew lol


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			turns out having a boot head high in the penalty box isnt a penalty, who knew lol
		
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Over head kicks for goals are boot high aswell tho


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Over head kicks for goals are boot high aswell tho
		
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whats that got to do with anything? high boot is a foul especially when trying to kick the attacker heading the ball in the chops. as the clown in the studio admitted, its a free kick anywhere else on the pitch


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			whats that got to do with anything? high boot is a foul especially when trying to kick the attacker heading the ball in the chops. as the clown in the studio admitted, its a free kick anywhere else on the pitch
		
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He admitted that because in the box it's anything to defend the ball 

You won't see a player do an overhead kick outside the pen area


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			whats that got to do with anything? high boot is a foul especially when trying to kick the attacker heading the ball in the chops. as the clown in the studio admitted, its a free kick anywhere else on the pitch
		
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Also did you know low head in the box is just as dangerous . His foot was chest height if that ings lowered his head trying to win ball 

It wouldn't have hit normal head height


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			He admitted that because in the box it's anything to defend the ball

You won't see a player do an overhead kick outside the pen area
		
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that doesnt make it not an offense and thus a penalty though


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Also did you know low head in the box is just as dangerous . His foot was chest height if that ings lowered his head trying to win ball

It wouldn't have hit normal head height
		
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Still can’t have your boot  at chest height 

It’s a foul anywhere else on the pitch so it should be a penalty


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			that doesnt make it not an offense and thus a penalty though
		
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It wasn't a pen 

It wasn't even head height .


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still can’t have your boot  at chest height

It’s a foul anywhere else on the pitch so it should be a penalty
		
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Law 12 Phil. Indirect free kick so can't even be a pen.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Law 12 Phil. Indirect free kick so can't even be a pen.

View attachment 34043


View attachment 34044

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So you think from that a player gets kicked in the head in the box whilst they are playing the box it’s just a indirect free kick 🤔


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you think from that a player gets kicked in the head in the box whilst they are playing the box it’s just a indirect free kick 🤔
		
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Laid down I the laws of the game right there.

If you want to argue with the laws of the game contact FIFA


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Laid down I the laws of the game right there.

If you want to argue with the laws of the game contact FIFA
		
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Yet 

https://www.thefa.com/football-rule.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

*Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: *

Would you not say kicking someone chest high is a tad careless 

*Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed*

Or maybe reckless 

*Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned*


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet

https://www.thefa.com/football-rule.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

*Direct free kick*

*A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: *

Would you not say kicking someone chest high is a tad careless

*Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed*

Or maybe reckless

*Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned*

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An overhead kick to try and clear the ball like he did there is not reckless as he was trying to play the ball

Was hallers overhead kick mid week not reckless play?

https://tribuna.com/en/arsenal/news...been-an-indirect-freekick-not-a-penalty-expl/

Even ex refs on the subject 

Yes if someone kicked someone in the face on purpose it's a pen but when a balls to be won like that 

Same as putting your head on the floor to win a ball when feet around being dangerous play.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Lots of things being thrown at klopp, some I’ve understanding with, but not this!
How about in a top of the league clash  he had no one to call on. What part of that bench was stronger than the team he had on the pitch?
		
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If you take that angle then why does he need 5 subs? 

My post was meant to cover both that game and then bringing on Salah in a game that was clearly won today. Neither action backs up his need for 5 subs so that players can rest.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			An overhead kick to try and clear the ball like he did there is not reckless as he was trying to play the ball

Was hallers overhead kick mid week not reckless play?

https://tribuna.com/en/arsenal/news...been-an-indirect-freekick-not-a-penalty-expl/

Even ex refs on the subject

Yes if someone kicked someone in the face on purpose it's a pen but when a balls to be won like that

Same as putting your head on the floor to win a ball when feet around being dangerous play.
		
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Did Haller connect with someone around head/chest then ? 

We aren’t talking about overhead kicks attempts on goal


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did Haller connect with someone around head/chest then ?

We aren’t talking about overhead kicks attempts on goal
		
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Still going to win the ball though. What's the difference between attempting to score a goal with an overhead kick or clearing the ball with an overhead kick? 

Ings head was much lower he went to win the ball aswell.


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Still going to win the ball though. *What's the difference between attempting to score a goal with an overhead kick or clearing the ball with an overhead kick?*

Ings head was much lower he went to win the ball aswell.
		
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An attackers head within vicinity of where he is kicking, ie recklessly!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you take that angle then why does he need 5 subs?

My post was meant to cover both that game and then bringing on Salah in a game that was clearly won today. Neither action backs up his need for 5 subs so that players can rest.
		
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Why does it have to back up what every other european league are doing and European competitions ? He and other managers would like the “option” to be able to bring 5 subs on during an extensive season where many players are getting injured. Just because he and others would like that option doesn’t mean they would take it every match - and what does Salah coming on today have to do with it ?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			An attackers head within vicinity of where he is kicking, ie recklessly!
		
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Head 100% wasn't there when he started the challenge. 

When he left the floor ings had not started his move down to the ball 

Simple coming together.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why does it have to back up what every other european league are doing and European competitions ? He and other managers would like the “option” to be able to bring 5 subs on during an extensive season where many players are getting injured. Just because he and others would like that option doesn’t mean they would take it every match - and what does Salah coming on today have to do with it ?
		
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He and some managers, clearly not all. Managers of the bigger clubs, those with the stronger squads. 10 currently disagree. 

Instead of subbing players he, and others, will need to rotate players from the start. Managers have been doing it for years. Klopp doesn't want to, I get that, but he will have to or accept the risk of picking the same players every game.

Salah was highlighted because today was a great chance for him to put his feet up, rest the muscles. Game won, give Origi a run out. He had no need to bring him on. He has put some strain on him today that was unnecessary.


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2020)

I transferred Mane out for Salah in Fantasy this week. Imagine the rollercoaster ride as my mate told me Salah was dropped and that Mane had scored (me fuming), but then I check the score and it turns out Salah had come on and managed 2 goals and 1 assist in half an hour.   Paid off in the end, just about.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He and some managers, clearly not all. Managers of the bigger clubs, those with the stronger squads. 10 currently disagree.

Instead of subbing players he, and others, will need to rotate players from the start. Managers have been doing it for years. Klopp doesn't want to, I get that, but he will have to or accept the risk of picking the same players every game.

Salah was highlighted because today was a great chance for him to put his feet up, rest the muscles. Game won, give Origi a run out. He had no need to bring him on. He has put some strain on him today that was unnecessary.
		
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Did Salah look strained ? It looked a good 30 mins run out to keep up his run of form with a couple of goals and also got to give Mane a run out , Origi is on his way out. Got to ensure players stay hungry as well as rested - fine balance. 

It’s prob the most physically intense league and yet the only one with 3 subs and about to hit a more intense phase of the season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did Salah look strained ? It looked a good 30 mins run out to keep up his run of form with a couple of goals and also got to give Mane a run out , Origi is on his way out. Got to ensure players stay hungry as well as rested - fine balance.

It’s prob the most physically intense league and yet the only one with 3 subs and about to hit a more intense phase of the season.
		
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No he didn't look strained but it is about miles on the clock. Plenty of games coming up in a short space of time. Rest him today, no need to worry about subbing him in 3 games time. If the game was on a knife edge then I could understand but it was unnecessary today. It was even the sort of day today when you could have brought on one of your young lads, don't know if you had anyone like that of course.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No he didn't look strained but it is about miles on the clock. Plenty of games coming up in a short space of time. Rest him today, no need to worry about subbing him in 3 games time. If the game was on a knife edge then I could understand but it was unnecessary today. It was even the sort of day today when you could have brought on one of your young lads, don't know if you had anyone like that of course.
		
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Nothing beats keeping match fitness and little run out for players whilst there is little risk , Klopp knows his players and how to manage them both mentally and physically - he brought off Mane who will now be dying to get back on whilst keeping Mo form going nicely, seems perfect management


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2020)

Predictably dire first half, kind of Everton create a chance for our 70m dead ball specialist as we clearly werent going to bother, and even then we still go in behind

Ceballos a bit fortunate not to be this weeks red card idiot too


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## USER1999 (Dec 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			Predictably dire first half, kind of Everton create a chance for our 70m dead ball specialist as we clearly werent going to bother, and even then we still go in behind

Ceballos a bit fortunate not to be this weeks red card idiot too
		
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This weeks fool. What the heck was that all about? Love the fake injury. Similar to Mo's mid week. Wonder if they go to the same drama class? 

I am not expecting anything out of this. Willian is as anonymous as ever, Luiz is shot, and rubbish, against an in form Everton. No, it's not going to happen.


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			This weeks fool. What the heck was that all about? Love the fake injury. Similar to Mo's mid week. Wonder if they go to the same drama class?

I am not expecting anything out of this. Willian is as anonymous as ever, Luiz is shot, and rubbish, against an in form Everton. No, it's not going to happen.
		
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Wilian had a grand total of 14 touches in the first half, less than anyone else, and did less than anyone with them. That will be 250k please


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			He admitted that because in the box it's anything to defend the ball

*You won't see a player do an overhead kick outside the pen area*

Click to expand...

Really?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

Slime said:



			Really?







Click to expand...

To clear the ball 

But in the main players don't do them outside the area ...... There are a few exceptions that prove the rules 🙄


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2020)

Thought Everton were subdued, and quite ordinary. Plenty good enough to beat us still


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			Thought Everton were subdued, and quite ordinary. Plenty good enough to beat us still 

Click to expand...

I thought on the 2nd half a draw would of been a fair result, Arsenal didn’t seem to want to be there until the equaliser.


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## Reemul (Dec 19, 2020)

Winning the poor games is important, something we have struggled with in the past, really pleased with 3 points.


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2020)

Not that I want him to but Arteta has to go surely? When Brighton beat Sheffield tomorrow, Arsenal will drop to 16th. That is unheard of.


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## Jensen (Dec 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not that I want him to but Arteta has to go surely? When Brighton beat Sheffield tomorrow, Arsenal will drop to 16th. That is unheard of.
		
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No....but it’s great though 😄


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not that I want him to but Arteta has to go surely? When Brighton beat Sheffield tomorrow, Arsenal will drop to 16th. That is unheard of.
		
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why? whats the point in sacking another manager with no plan to replace, no structure to support them, an awful squad that resembles Chelseas retirement home and injuries/suspensions to several key members? Issues are far far worse than the manager and putting all the blame on an inexperienced manager being given little support and no time to turn it round is no help at all.

That said I think hes making some bad decisions but also think his hands are pretty much tied behind his back sadly


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			why? whats the point in sacking another manager with no plan to replace, no structure to support them, an awful squad that resembles Chelseas retirement home and injuries/suspensions to several key members? Issues are far far worse than the manager and putting all the blame on an inexperienced manager being given little support and no time to turn it round is no help at all.

That said I think hes making some bad decisions but also think his hands are pretty much tied behind his back sadly
		
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I think you are right. How many managers can you get through. I think Arteta is making small steps with a very limited squad, some of which clearly don't seem to want to be there. It takes time to get rid of the dead wood and get new blood in and playing the way the manager wants them. At the moment Arsenal are reaping the results of leaving Wenger in charge too long and having a poor recruitment strategy


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## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think you are right. How many managers can you get through. I think Arteta is making small steps with a very limited squad, some of which clearly don't seem to want to be there. It takes time to get rid of the dead wood and get new blood in and playing the way the manager wants them. At the moment Arsenal are reaping the results of leaving Wenger in charge too long and having a poor recruitment strategy
		
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Are the steps backwards?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Are the steps backwards?
		
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I'm not sure they are. In the Europa league they've played with a lit more freedom and look a better side for it. In the PL the players look stifled and unsure of what they are trying to do. I suppose that is down to the manager but how can a side be so Jekyll and Hyde? What will a new manager be able to offer though with the players they have to work with?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2020)

I like Arteta, would of happily took him before we got Ancelotti, however, it has to be remembered he had no experience as a manager so needs time, plus, unfortunately some people make a better assistant manager than an actual manager and his appointment was always going to be something of a risk.


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			why? whats the point in sacking another manager with no plan to replace, no structure to support them, an awful squad that resembles Chelseas retirement home and injuries/suspensions to several key members? Issues are far far worse than the manager and putting all the blame on an inexperienced manager being given little support and no time to turn it round is no help at all.

That said I think hes making some bad decisions but also think his hands are pretty much tied behind his back sadly
		
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While that is all true there's no way your squad is the 16th best in the league, underperforming big time.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I like Arteta, would of happily took him before we got Ancelotti, however, it has to be remembered he had no experience as a manager so needs time, plus, unfortunately some people make a better assistant manager than an actual manager and his appointment was always going to be something of a risk.
		
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I guess you need to give a manager a chance to know if they have what it takes or are better suited to being a number 2. Is it too early to make that call on Arteta


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2020)

If he's not got the backing from the board his job is pretty untenable.


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## USER1999 (Dec 19, 2020)

In the main, it's not Arteta, I just wish he hadn't been part of signing Willian, or giving Luiz an extension. The rest is way above his pay grade.


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2020)

for those who think we should sack Arteta we really dont want to turn into Watford (theyve just sacked another one)


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2020)

Nit sure whether to be annoyed or pleased. Really bossed the first half and deserved to be in front. Sloppy defending to commit the foul (and no qualms about the red card). After that hard to get anything on the break but contained Newcastle well. Trouble now is Brighton will win tomorrow and so the gap will be back to four points with tricky games against Southampton at home and Spurs away.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I know I'm thinking of a fantasy football view but what is the point of bringing Salah on? Really defeats his argument for 5 subs

He needs a rest yes so on bench

Has a rest

4-0 up why not bring on orgi ? Not giving him a rest really ..
		
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Maybe if he has 5 subs he does what you suggest. With 3 he HAS to be tactical. 

Just an opinion, though.


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Maybe if he has 5 subs he does what you suggest. With 3 he HAS to be tactical.

Just an opinion, though.
		
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tactical at 4-0 up lol Stu, pull the other one


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Maybe if he has 5 subs he does what you suggest. With 3 he HAS to be tactical.

Just an opinion, though.
		
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How does mid week against spurs work then? Zero subs made


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			How does mid week against spurs work then? Zero subs made
		
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What about it ? Klopp it appears felt that the game was that close and tight it wasn’t the right time to make a substitute- that’s what managers do, make the calls.


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## davemc1 (Dec 20, 2020)

Has anyone checked on chrisd, dando, and swingalot? Really hope they’re ok

🥴


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## Dando (Dec 20, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Has anyone checked on chrisd and swingalot? Really hope they’re ok 

🥴
		
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They’re still on the phone to the Samaritan’s


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			tactical at 4-0 up lol Stu, pull the other one
		
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We've lost a 3 nil lead there before😉


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			How does mid week against spurs work then? Zero subs made
		
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Just because he wants 5 subs, like the rest of all the big European leagues, doesn't mean he has to or wants  use them every week. Its about having the ability to do so when the games are coming thick and fast.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just because he wants 5 subs, like the rest of all the big European leagues, doesn't mean he has to or wants  use them every week. Its about having the ability to do so when the games are coming thick and fast.
		
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Stu I'm sorry but this is blindly defending klopp

He is a fantastic manager. A real breath of fresh air to this league but he is wrong on this count and the calling for 5 subs then not using any backed it up it's not needed. Games are coming thick and fast now the game was wednesday and now Saturday .. exact reason he had said he needed 5 subs

He did not need to bring Salah on at 4-0 up. If Salah breaks down next game would you defend him then when he could have had the entire game off?


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## Papas1982 (Dec 20, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Stu I'm sorry but this is blindly defending klopp

He is a fantastic manager. A real breath of fresh air to this league but he is wrong on this count and the calling for 5 subs then not using any backed it up it's not needed. Games are coming thick and fast now the game was wednesday and now Saturday .. exact reason he had said he needed 5 subs

He did not need to bring Salah on at 4-0 up. If Salah breaks down next game would you defend him then when he could have had the entire game off?
		
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I think @davemc1 answered this best.
it’s a top of the table clash. which they won last minute with their best players on. Obviously klopp decided that it was better to risk their health in that game and worse case need to rest lots of them for the weaker opposition they would face the next week.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2020)

Using Man City as an example:
14 weeks since season began, they’ve played 23 games, due to International breaks they have played them in “12” weeks effectively.

in the next 14 weeks (no International break till end of the period) they are scheduled to play 20 games, obviously this depends on FA Cup and Caraboa Cup results.

After the Christmas/New Year stupidity they’ll have only 15 games in 11 weeks and that includes 2 CL games.

Best case some PL Clubs will play 16 games in 14 weeks and worst case (City) 23 games plus any FA Cup ties or replays.

Either way there is more rest between games once this stupid period is out of the way.

Whether you need 1, 3 or 5 subs those matches will be played and managers will make decisions, even with 5 subs there will be injuries.

Teams in the past have won Leagues and European Trophies with a 1 Sub rule and used basically the same 11-15 players for the whole season.

Do I care if it’s 3 or 5 subs? No in all honesty, there are far more important things wrong with the game I wish managers would focus on.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Stu I'm sorry but this is blindly defending klopp

He is a fantastic manager. A real breath of fresh air to this league but he is wrong on this count and the calling for 5 subs then not using any backed it up it's not needed. Games are coming thick and fast now the game was wednesday and now Saturday .. exact reason he had said he needed 5 subs

He did not need to bring Salah on at 4-0 up. If Salah breaks down next game would you defend him then when he could have had the entire game off?
		
Click to expand...

No its not. 

10 managers at the last meeting voted for the extra subs, including your own if I'm not mistaken.

Going by your point, we might as well not have 3 subs if managers don't use all 3 every game 

Its dead easy after the event to say what he needed to do or not. He's the manager and makes the decisions he sees fit. Injuries happen, its not the managers fault. 

Don't forget there's a EURO in the summer, England will suffer because if this.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No its not.

10 managers at the last meeting voted for the extra subs, including your own if I'm not mistaken.

Going by your point, we might as well not have 3 subs if managers don't use all 3 every game

Its dead easy after the event to say what he needed to do or not. He's the manager and makes the decisions he sees fit. Injuries happen, its not the managers fault.

*Don't forget there's a EURO in the summer, England will suffer because if this.*

Click to expand...

Or not, as we have so many top players from Europe in our League it could be part of a plan to knacker them.


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## adam6177 (Dec 20, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Nit sure whether to be annoyed or pleased. Really bossed the first half and deserved to be in front. Sloppy defending to commit the foul (and no qualms about the red card). After that hard to get anything on the break but contained Newcastle well. Trouble now is Brighton will win tomorrow and so the gap will be back to four points with tricky games against Southampton at home and Spurs away.
		
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Surprised at your view on the penalty/red card.... I didn't think it was even a foul, let alone a penalty and sending off. 

When he went over to check the screen supposedly it was to check for the red card, not even to check if it was a penalty or not..... Absolute madness in my eyes.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Or not, as we have so many top players from Europe in our League it could be part of a plan to knacker them.

Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to fume and excuses when England get knocked out 😄


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## hairball_89 (Dec 20, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Surprised at your view on the penalty/red card.... I didn't think it was even a foul, let alone a penalty and sending off.

When he went over to check the screen supposedly it was to check for the red card, not even to check if it was a penalty or not..... Absolute madness in my eyes.
		
Click to expand...

Just watched MOTD and absolutely agree with this. Never a pen and can't believe he was sent off. Clear as day yellow for Wilson. 

Scott Parker was absolutely right for me. You can see why he's given it in real time. Soon as you see it again, how the ref "doubled down" on the pen is mad.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No its not.

10 managers at the last meeting voted for the extra subs, including your own if I'm not mistaken.

Going by your point, we might as well not have 3 subs if managers don't use all 3 every game

Its dead easy after the event to say what he needed to do or not. He's the manager and makes the decisions he sees fit. Injuries happen, its not the managers fault.

Don't forget there's a EURO in the summer, England will suffer because if this.
		
Click to expand...

Incorrect. 10 owner voted against it not managers 

West ham voted against it however Moyes I believe is for it.

Other nations will suffer aswell as a lot of players play in England ... Not just English.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Stu I'm sorry but this is blindly defending klopp

He is a fantastic manager. A real breath of fresh air to this league but he is wrong on this count and the calling for 5 subs then not using any backed it up it's not needed. Games are coming thick and fast now the game was wednesday and now Saturday .. exact reason he had said he needed 5 subs

He did not need to bring Salah on at 4-0 up. If Salah breaks down next game would you defend him then when he could have had the entire game off?
		
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“He is wrong” ? Sorry but how can you say that he is wrong when he knows his players a hell of a lot more than someone on the Internet. 

You appear to be unable to see beyond the whole black and white of the situation and not looking at each game and the situation of the game itself - it was a top of the table clash and very tight and close and as a manager he made a judgement not to make a change because of how the game was going. It’s about having the option to be able to make further changes if needed during games , just because the option is there doesnt mean it has to be used , I suspect he would have used 5 against Palace if he had the choice.

The whole of Europe have gone to 5 subs plus in CL etc - and he has an opinion for player benefit that the Prem should do the same


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“He is wrong” ? Sorry but how can you say that he is wrong when he knows his players a hell of a lot more than someone on the Internet.

You appear to be unable to see beyond the whole black and white of the situation and not looking at each game and the situation of the game itself - it was a top of the table clash and very tight and close and as a manager he made a judgement not to make a change because of how the game was going. It’s about having the option to be able to make further changes if needed during games , just because the option is there doesnt mean it has to be used , I suspect he would have used 5 against Palace if he had the choice.

The whole of Europe have gone to 5 subs plus in CL etc - and he has an opinion for player benefit that the Prem should do the same
		
Click to expand...

Which his opinion has been voted down 3 times is it now?

Yes he does know his team better than those on the internet which ironically includes you Phil ... And all the defending you can do of him he keeps pushing for 5 subs saying it will help everyone yet outside the top 6 those teams are coping fine without the extra subs.

The league has spoken on the matter and it won't change its mind not enough agree.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2020)

A proper game of football at Brighton. Both teams gave everything, a good few chances. Brighton should have won but Sheffield made it hard for them. Not sure how the last minute melee didn't lead to a Brighton goal. A good start to the days football.


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



*A proper game of football at Brighton*. Both teams gave everything, a good few chances. Brighton should have won but Sheffield made it hard for them. Not sure how the last minute melee didn't lead to a Brighton goal. A good start to the days football.
		
Click to expand...

would agree with that if the ref hadnt sent a man off for winning the ball


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			would agree with that if the ref hadnt sent a man off for winning the ball 

Click to expand...

In my defence I didn't see the first half 😁 but I take your point.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2020)

Well that was a particularly brainless bit of defending from the spurs fella.


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2020)

Ah, Aurier is back then. He had been suspiciously decent this season. Knew it wouldn't be too long before he reverted back to normal.


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## Old Skier (Dec 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			would agree with that if the ref hadnt sent a man off for winning the ball 

Click to expand...

You do knoW tackling is no longer allowed, mind you it was a bit iffiy.


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## Beezerk (Dec 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Well that was a particularly brainless bit of defending from the spurs fella.
		
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Brain dead.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

How doesn't Pawson give that as a fpul when he's 15 yards away with a clear view?


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			How doesn't Pawson give that as a fpul when he's 15 yards away with a clear view?
		
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Doesn't have to. Just rely on the good old VAR crutch.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Incorrect. 10 owner voted against it not managers

West ham voted against it however Moyes I believe is for it.

Other nations will suffer aswell as a lot of players play in England ... Not just English.
		
Click to expand...

This is the problem, money men getting involved with footballing decisions. Should never happen.

Yes other nations will suffer, but not to the same level as England. 

Anyway, we're just kicking the can down the road now. Can this be the last of the 5 sub discussion.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Doesn't have to. Just rely on the good old VAR crutch.
		
Click to expand...

That's not why its there.


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## Old Skier (Dec 20, 2020)

And how was that off side


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2020)

That was never offside. He was level with two defenders. Should have been game over for us. More VAR rubbish, let off for us.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

That has just exposed the flaws in the offside lines used by VAR. 

Pathetic decision.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 20, 2020)

That was a shocking decision and is the reason why I have gone off football. My lad is a neutral and said it’s killed the game.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 20, 2020)

VAR attempts, with its lines, to judge offside to the mm yet without a sensor on or in the ball there is nowhere near that level of accuracy over when the ball was played.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

Maddison would have to be horizontal to be ahead of Aurier. 

Disgusting decision.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 20, 2020)

Justice!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2020)

VAR continuing to ruin the sport - what an embarrassing offside


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

Spurs are sitting so deep they might get knocked over by a car on Park Lane 😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Spurs are sitting so deep they might get knocked over by a car on Park Lane 😉
		
Click to expand...

A Mourinho team sitting deep parking the big bus ? Surely not if you listen to Mick Hazard today - most exciting attacking team in the country with no one able to get near them


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

JM getting schooled by his former teaboy 🤭🤭🤭

No doubt JM will credit himself for giving Rodgers his big break...


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## Old Skier (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			JM getting schooled by his former teaboy 🤭🤭🤭

No doubt JM will credit himself for giving Rodgers his big break...
		
Click to expand...

Nope, best team lost —- apparently.


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## Kellfire (Dec 20, 2020)

Everyone: VAR has killed the game. 

Everyone: *watches the next game*

Everyone: VAR has killed the game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			JM getting schooled by his former teaboy 🤭🤭🤭

No doubt JM will credit himself for giving Rodgers his big break...
		
Click to expand...

He should have seen how Carlo did it midweek 😉😆


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## Jensen (Dec 20, 2020)

Aurier is a massive liability, needs to be shown the door. Sissoko was daydreaming before the cross came over for the second. I read the play seconds before the cross came over.

We don’t have a midfield creative player to open things up.
Bale did nothing another easy few
hundred thousand picked up, thank you very much. Winks didn’t create anything, at least Moura is lively. Loads of possession second half, Schmeichel only tested twice.
It’s never gonna end well when a plonker like Aurier is involved in key incidents.
Extremely Poor


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## adam6177 (Dec 20, 2020)

I see Kane did his best and threw himself to the floor as much as possible... But for once the ref wasn't conned. Maybe, just maybe they're wising up to him..... But I doubt it.


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## Slime (Dec 20, 2020)




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## Slime (Dec 20, 2020)

And another


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2020)

Slime said:



View attachment 34068

Click to expand...

That was quick


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## Slime (Dec 20, 2020)

And a third ....................... we think we're playing away!


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## BiMGuy (Dec 20, 2020)

Slime said:



			And a third ....................... we think we're playing away!
		
Click to expand...

I think giving you a 3 goal start is fair 😂

This could finish 10-0 or 5-5


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## davemc1 (Dec 20, 2020)

Crazy team utd, it makes betting on them near impossible. I’ve gone over 4.5 goals....


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## Slime (Dec 20, 2020)

Wow, four up and not a striker on the score sheet!


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## anotherdouble (Dec 20, 2020)

Slime said:



			Wow, four up and not a striker on the score sheet!
		
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Have you got any


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Well that was a particularly brainless bit of defending from the spurs fella.
		
Click to expand...

I think even Kyle walker calls Aurier an idiot.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think even Kyle walker calls Aurier an idiot. 

Click to expand...


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

With the amount of rubbish and spin JM puts on negative results, I reckon when JM gets the sack from spurs he should be given a front bench seat in this Government, he'd fit right in with that deluded lot. 😉


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			With the amount of rubbish and spin JM puts on negative results, I reckon when JM gets the sack from spurs he should be given a front bench seat in this Government, he'd fit right in with that deluded lot. 😉
		
Click to expand...

no politics on the footie thread Stu 

dont make me set fragger on you


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			no politics on the footie thread Stu 

dont make me set fragger on you
		
Click to expand...

I never had you down as a midnight mass fundy, expected from LP though 😄


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## Slime (Dec 20, 2020)

Pleased for James, well taken goal.


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I never had you down as a midnight mass fundy, expected from LP though 😄
		
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hahaha no youd be right


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## Slime (Dec 20, 2020)

Lovely.


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## Slime (Dec 20, 2020)

anotherdouble said:



			Have you got any
		
Click to expand...

Don't need them, or so it would appear.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

Love a good result for yernited, papers over the cracks and gives OGS a few  more games😁


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## Slime (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Love a good result for yernited, papers over the cracks and gives OGS a few  more games😁
		
Click to expand...

We have a game in hand against Burnley, if we win that we're right up your chuff.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 20, 2020)

Slime said:



			We have a game in hand against Burnley, if we win that we're right up your chuff. 

Click to expand...

Burnley can defend, unlike Leeds.

Though they will need their keeper to save a penalty


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Love a good result for yernited, papers over the cracks and gives OGS a few  more games😁
		
Click to expand...

It’s pure brilliance - keep him at the wheel , extend the contract , doing a great job 👏


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## Slime (Dec 20, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s pure brilliance - keep him at the wheel , extend the contract , doing a great job 👏
		
Click to expand...

Ooh, I can almost smell the fear.


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## Slime (Dec 20, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Burnley can defend, unlike Leeds.

*Though they will need their keeper to save a penalty*

Click to expand...

It's a good job the Leeds 'keeper turned up today, it could have been 10.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 20, 2020)

Slime said:



			It's a good job the Leeds 'keeper turned up today, it could have been 10.
		
Click to expand...

We could have had 6 at the other end too. Mad game. But I love the way we play. 

Unfortunately results like this will happen. Two soft goals at the start and a very soft penalty didn't give us a chance today.


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			I see Kane did his best and threw himself to the floor as much as possible... But for once the ref wasn't conned. Maybe, just maybe they're wising up to him..... But I doubt it.
		
Click to expand...

No he didn't though? It was Leicester players hitting the deck every two minutes.


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s pure brilliance - keep him at the wheel , extend the contract , doing a great job 👏
		
Click to expand...

They're third now with a game in hand - maybe he really is doing a good job? I just don't know anymore. This season is weird.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			No he didn't though? It was Leicester players hitting the deck every two minutes.
		
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If you pm me your address I'll send you a spare pair of rose tinted glasses 😉


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If you pm me your address I'll send you a spare pair of rose tinted glasses 😉
		
Click to expand...

I remember him going down once just outside the area. They didn't even show a replay so don't know if it was a foul. Another time he was potentially fouled in the box and actually stayed on his feet and we got nothing.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I remember him going down once just outside the area. They didn't even show a replay so don't know if it was a foul. Another time he was potentially fouled in the box and actually stayed on his feet and we got nothing.
		
Click to expand...

We all know English players don't dive, its only those pesky foreigners😉


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			We all know English players don't dive, its only those pesky foreigners😉
		
Click to expand...


BT Sport currently, I assume Grealish is a pesky foreigner


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			BT Sport currently, I assume Grealish is a pesky foreigner 

Click to expand...

Did you see that too?  Yeah nothing gets said about them though.


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Did you see that too?  Yeah nothing gets said about them though.
		
Click to expand...

and again down like hes dying, bounces back up like a weeble 10 seconds later


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

Another one🤣🤣🤣 His teammates don't even put the ball out  when he goes down now 😂


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2020)

and grealish buys them a red card


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2020)

Was there any actual contact on Grealish ?

Slow motion makes it look worse - seems a yellow card at worse

Edit - that’s going to be a red as well then


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was there any actual contact on Grealish ?

Slow motion makes it look worse - seems a yellow card at worse
		
Click to expand...

its a yellow for me, Grealish was diving before the contact screamed as if shot then up on his feet 15 seconds later

no doubt someone who enjoys football being destroyed will be along to point to the exact rule that implies its a red card


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2020)

this has to be red too now lol

how is that any different to the red? yet no call to the monitor


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## pendodave (Dec 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			this has to be red too now lol
		
Click to expand...

That looks worse to me. Extraordinary.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			this has to be red too now lol
		
Click to expand...

Apparently not ? Seems it was more contact direct on the shin yet not even worthy of the ref having another look ?!! 

what the heck is going on - and now Hoddle talking as it Grealish was torn in half and lucky to be still able to walk . 

I’ll wait for the Grealish diving compilation videos to be posted


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## Billysboots (Dec 20, 2020)

Much as I love to see United putting Leeds in their place, I have to say some of the defending by the latter was naive, and that’s being kind. At this level you simply cannot allow the opposition the sort of space Leeds were leaving.

This is a Manchester United who had only scored three league goals at home before today, and they could easily have scored ten, especially if Martial had remembered to put his boots on the right feet.

The Leeds approach reminds me very much of the Kevin Keegan mentality - you score four, we’ll score five. That really doesn’t work long term in the Premier League these days, and I do fear for Leeds during the second half of the season unless they learn there is a time and a place for kamikaze tactics.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apparently not ? Seems it was more contact direct on the shin yet not even worthy of the ref having another look ?!!

what the heck is going on - and now Hoddle talking as it Grealish was torn in half and lucky to be still able to walk .

I’ll wait for the Grealish diving compilation videos to be posted
		
Click to expand...

You'll have a long wait.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 20, 2020)

Its getting to the point where I want somebody to actually give Grealish something to scream about. His two and a half somersaults with pike while screaming like a banshee on heat is becoming a real grind. If he continues to play for England I can see him getting regular yellow cards in tournaments where refs will be ordered to be on the look out for simulation


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2020)

guess the frame and draw some lines time again, VAR at its best lol


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 20, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apparently not ? Seems it was more contact direct on the shin yet not even worthy of the ref having another look ?!!

what the heck is going on - and now Hoddle talking as it Grealish was torn in half and lucky to be still able to walk .

*I’ll wait for the Grealish diving compilation videos to be posted*

Click to expand...

Oh Boo Hoo, one of our players has been called out for diving. I'm going to deflect by pointing out that a player from another club does it as well.

Salah dives. Mane dives. Grealish dives. Kane dives. Martial dives. Norris dives. (<--- the last one is a Col U player to show that it happens at all levels of the game and not just the Prem). Every player from every club will dive/go down easily if they think it will get them an advantage. Stop being so precious about one of your players getting called out for being a cheat. They all are.


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## Swingalot (Dec 20, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Has anyone checked on chrisd, dando, and swingalot? Really hope they’re ok

🥴
		
Click to expand...

Thought it best to keep my head down. Not quite sure how we were 3-0 down at half time, but after that it was quite frankly embarrassing.  Liverpool ruthless. When Salah came on I really knew it was going to get worse before it got better! 
Fair play, Liverpool goals were all class.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 20, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Oh Boo Hoo, one of our players has been called out for diving. I'm going to deflect by pointing out that a player from another club does it as well.

Salah dives. Mane dives. Grealish dives. Kane dives. Martial dives. Norris dives. (<--- the last one is a Col U player to show that it happens at all levels of the game and not just the Prem). Every player from every club will dive/go down easily if they think it will get them an advantage. Stop being so precious about one of your players getting called out for being a cheat. They all are.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with you here.
So I am amazed they got rid of the retrospective panel for diving.
It worked so why not use it.?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Oh Boo Hoo, one of our players has been called out for diving. I'm going to deflect by pointing out that a player from another club does it as well.

Salah dives. Mane dives. Grealish dives. Kane dives. Martial dives. Norris dives. (<--- the last one is a Col U player to show that it happens at all levels of the game and not just the Prem). Every player from every club will dive/go down easily if they think it will get them an advantage. Stop being so precious about one of your players getting called out for being a cheat. They all are.
		
Click to expand...

Deflecting ? No one is deflecting anything.

And yes many players dive - so we all look forward to those players all being constantly highlighted, video compilations made of them and demands they get banned 🙄


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 20, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Deflecting ? No one is deflecting anything.

And yes many players dive - so we all look forward to those players all being constantly highlighted, video compilations made of them and demands they get banned 🙄
		
Click to expand...

You are deflecting as soon as you bring Grealish into the conversation in hoping that you're waiting "for the Grealish diving compilation videos to be posted". Salah is a diving cheat. Mane is a diving cheat. The fact that Grealish is also a diving cheat doesn't mean that either of the first two statements are incorrect. And there are many other examples of players from other clubs that are also diving cheats.


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2020)

Daniel James got booked for diving today. And it wasn't even a dive, the Leeds player whacked and arm across the top of his chest.


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## Kellfire (Dec 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Daniel James got booked for diving today. And it wasn't even a dive, the Leeds player whacked and arm across the top of his chest.
		
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Yea the ref messed that up.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Daniel James got booked for diving today. And it wasn't even a dive, the Leeds player whacked and arm across the top of his chest.
		
Click to expand...

First view I thought it was a pen, have to say.

Replays - it was a 'nothing'. Not a foul. Not a dive. Just a thing that happens on a football pitch, among many others.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 21, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			You are deflecting as soon as you bring Grealish into the conversation in hoping that you're waiting "for the Grealish diving compilation videos to be posted". Salah is a diving cheat. Mane is a diving cheat. The fact that Grealish is also a diving cheat doesn't mean that either of the first two statements are incorrect. And there are many other examples of players from other clubs that are also diving cheats.
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t “bring” Grealish into the conversation- he already was the conversation because the game that was going on at the time was Villa playing - not Liverpool or indeed anyone else 

And no one was deflecting away from Mane or Salah because they weren’t being talked about until you mentioned them 

People including myself have already stated that the likes of Salah goes down too easily but the point was clearly it’s only him and a few other foreign players that get highlighted by certain fans - those same fans and indeed media don’t highlight the likes of Grealish , Kane or Sterling - instead yesterday they were positively gushing about him instead , with zero mention about him throwing himself to the ground all game long. It’s called bias towards English players.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 21, 2020)

Grealish is the worst  for diving by a fair distance.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You'll have a long wait.
		
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Imagine if it was a Liverpool player 🎻 🤦‍♂️


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 21, 2020)

Rumours that Salah wants out😳


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2020)

One for followers of European football, ie not me. The rumours for Sami Khedira coming to Everton in January are growing. Coming up out of contract, not playing, knows Ancelloti from Real, it makes sense. However, is he a busted flush now? Is he worth getting or should he be looking at a nice retirement in the MLS?


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## fundy (Dec 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for followers of European football, ie not me. The rumours for Sami Khedira coming to Everton in January are growing. Coming up out of contract, not playing, knows Ancelloti from Real, it makes sense. However, is he a busted flush now? Is he worth getting or should he be looking at a nice retirement in the MLS?
		
Click to expand...

Doesnt sound like a long term option, must be mid 30s by now surely. Good player but struggle to see him having the legs for the premiership for long. Looks just the sort of player our board would give 250k a week lol

Edit: hes 33, yeah cant see that as a great option tbh


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Doesnt sound like a long term option, must be mid 30s by now surely. Good player but struggle to see him having the legs for the premiership for long. Looks just the sort of player our board would give 250k a week lol

Edit: hes 33, yeah cant see that as a great option tbh
		
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It is whether he has 2 good years left in him? Not every player needs to be young and for the future but you do need to know you are not buying someone who's legs have gone and has just hit the wall. We have done plenty of that in the past, it is clearly something you are  familiar with at Arsenal as well. I'd take him if we could get 2 good seasons out of him. That is enough.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Doesnt sound like a long term option, must be mid 30s by now surely. Good player but struggle to see him having the legs for the premiership for long. Looks just the sort of player our board would give 250k a week lol

Edit: hes 33, yeah cant see that as a great option tbh
		
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I doubt Everton could afford that sort of money, I know they're wage bill is already excessively high compared to turnover.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 21, 2020)

Khedira was the perfect signing for Arsenal about 4/5 years ago when he was available- the exact sort of player they were missing to sit in the middle 

Now though after a couple of injury hit seasons a Prem team shouldnt go near him - but it’s the sort of signing that the old Bolton used to do. Not sure why Everton would sign him as well


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I doubt Everton could afford that sort of money, I know they're wage bill is already excessively high compared to turnover.
		
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Don't worry. We are loaning out Bolassie to Boro in January. That will leave a big enough gap in the wage bill 

It sounds as though it is agent talk, trying to generate a move.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for followers of European football, ie not me. The rumours for Sami Khedira coming to Everton in January are growing. Coming up out of contract, not playing, knows Ancelloti from Real, it makes sense. However, is he a busted flush now? Is he worth getting or should he be looking at a nice retirement in the MLS?
		
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Mate, there are only 2 or 3 opinions on here I’d listen to, so if Ancelotti wants him and gets him, then he must know how he wants to use him and for how long, that’s good enough for me.

Look at the job Milner has done at LPool or Barry did for us, 99% on here thought they were dodgy signings.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, there are only 2 or 3 opinions on here I’d listen to, so if Ancelotti wants him and gets him, then he must know how he wants to use him and for how long, that’s good enough for me.

Look at the job Milner has done at LPool or Barry did for us, 99% on here thought they were dodgy signings.

Click to expand...

I've given myself a slap


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, there are only 2 or 3 opinions on here I’d listen to, so if Ancelotti wants him and gets him, then he must know how he wants to use him and for how long, that’s good enough for me.

Look at the job Milner has done at LPool or Barry did for us, 99% on here thought they were dodgy signings.

Click to expand...

Milner was 29 when we signed him on a free and I have no idea why someone would think he would be a dodgy signing ? Barry was a superb player who played his whole career in the Prem so was used to the physical demands . Khedira has had a number injuries recently including two knee surgeries and a significant muscle tear - at 33 that seems a strange signing


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 21, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Milner was 29 when we signed him on a free and I have no idea why someone would think he would be a dodgy signing ? Barry was a superb player who played his whole career in the Prem so was used to the physical demands . Khedira has had a number injuries recently including two knee surgeries and a significant muscle tear - at 33 that seems a strange signing
		
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When Milner signed on a free for LPool there were Lpool fans who questioned the signing by Rodgers as he was touted as a replacement for Gerrard, he wasn’t playing regularly for City, had never reached the heights some had expected as a young player, Leeds, Newcastle, Villa etc, good pro......but.

HE HAS BEEN SUPERB FOR LIVERPOOL.

You can even go back and check social media (you’re good at that) lots of LPool fans were unsure, it wasn’t exactly a marquis signing, but for free was seen as worth a gamble.

Khedira is currently no more than a rumour and if, a big if, Ancelotti sees a role for him, like Rodgers saw for Milner, and it’s on a free then I’ll trust Ancelotti’s opinion over someone on this thread! Clear now? I was never questioning Milner’s ability or how he’s performed.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			When Milner signed on a free for LPool there were Lpool fans who questioned the signing by Rodgers as he was touted as a replacement for Gerrard, he wasn’t playing regularly for City, had never reached the heights some had expected as a young player, Leeds, Newcastle, Villa etc, good pro......but.

HE HAS BEEN SUPERB FOR LIVERPOOL.

You can even go back and check social media (you’re good at that) lots of LPool fans were unsure, it wasn’t exactly a marquis signing, but for free was seen as worth a gamble.

Khedira is currently no more than a rumour and if, a big if, Ancelotti sees a role for him, like Rodgers saw for Milner, and it’s on a free then I’ll trust Ancelotti’s opinion over someone on this thread! Clear now? I was never questioning Milner’s ability or how he’s performed.

Click to expand...

Every club needs a milner .. the amount of positions he has covered for the club without question is unreal 

He reminds me of antonio for us just without the hamstring issues


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			When Milner signed on a free for LPool there were Lpool fans who questioned the signing by Rodgers as he was touted as a replacement for Gerrard, he wasn’t playing regularly for City, had never reached the heights some had expected as a young player, Leeds, Newcastle, Villa etc, good pro......but.

HE HAS BEEN SUPERB FOR LIVERPOOL.

You can even go back and check social media (you’re good at that) lots of LPool fans were unsure, it wasn’t exactly a marquis signing, but for free was seen as worth a gamble.

Khedira is currently no more than a rumour and if, a big if, Ancelotti sees a role for him, like Rodgers saw for Milner, and it’s on a free then I’ll trust Ancelotti’s opinion over someone on this thread! Clear now? I was never questioning Milner’s ability or how he’s performed.

Click to expand...

🙄 

Why are you trying to compare a 29 year Prem proven player who clearly was going to be a very good signing on a free - I don’t think in my post I even suggested you questioned how he has performed for us ? 

I know exactly how some fans react on social media but then they did it when Salah , Mane etc etc were signed

But what does that have to do with with talking about a 33 year old who has recently had two knee surgeries plus 3 months out with a muscle tear. 

But someone asked a question about him as a player and people have given a response politely in regards that player. No one has suggested they should be listened to over a Prem manager - it’s called a debate and talking about gossip and rumours.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 21, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🙄

Why are you trying to compare a 29 year Prem proven player who clearly was going to be a very good signing on a free - I don’t think in my post I even suggested you questioned how he has performed for us ?

I know exactly how some fans react on social media but then they did it when Salah , Mane etc etc were signed

But what does that have to do with with talking about a 33 year old who has recently had two knee surgeries plus 3 months out with a muscle tear.

But someone asked a question about him as a player and people have given a response politely in regards that player. No one has suggested they should be listened to over a Prem manager - it’s called a debate and talking about gossip and rumours.
		
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Let’s get something straight here! YOU ANSWERED MY POST AND BROUGHT AGE INTO IT! 

I was on about people questioning the signings of experienced players, didn’t compare anybody to anybody!

Try reading what is posted rather and reply to that rather answering what you think I posted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



*Let’s get something straight here! YOU ANSWERED MY POST AND BROUGHT AGE INTO IT!*

I was on about people questioning the signings of experienced players, didn’t compare anybody to anybody!

Try reading what is posted rather and reply to that rather answering what you think I posted.
		
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Because your response in regards people talking about Khedria and potential issues was to bringing Milner in as an example hence why the age at when he was signed was relevant 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Why are you reacting as if someone is personally attacking you ? There was a discussion about Khedria and you’re stomping around like prepubescent teenager because people dared to answer a question from another poster.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 21, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because your response in regards people talking about Khedria and potential issues was to bringing Milner in as an example hence why the age at when he was signed was relevant 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Why are you reacting as if someone is personally attacking you ? There was a discussion about Khedria and you’re stomping around like prepubescent teenager because people dared to answer a question from another poster.
		
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Age was only relevant to you, not me, I mentioned 2 players who when they signed questions were asked about them and what they offered, just because you apparently thought Milner was a good signing doesn’t mean everybody else did, you’ve managed in your normal way to get a conversation round to how you wish to discuss it. Never you at fault.

Always the other poster and once again you go to your default name calling!


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## Billysboots (Dec 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Daniel James got booked for diving today. And it wasn't even a dive, the Leeds player whacked and arm across the top of his chest.
		
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And this incident clearly illustrated that having a reputation for going to ground too easily, which James has, only counts against you in the long run.

I’m firmly of the view that the referee booked Dan James largely because, in his short United career, he has developed a reputation as a diver.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 21, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			And this incident clearly illustrated that having a reputation for going to ground too easily, which James has, only counts against you in the long run.

I’m firmly of the view that the referee booked Dan James largely because, in his short United career, he has developed a reputation as a diver.
		
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The worst thing is if James had committed another yellow card offence leading to a red card VAR wouldn’t have been able to do anything - it was poor from him


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## fundy (Dec 21, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			And this incident clearly illustrated that having a reputation for going to ground too easily, which James has, only counts against you in the long run.

I’m firmly of the view that the referee booked Dan James largely because, in his short United career, he has developed a reputation as a diver.
		
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didnt hurt Grealish last night lol, got a pen and a man sent off


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## pauljames87 (Dec 21, 2020)

Noble showing why he shouldn't be near a professional football team

I've even got his biggest fans txting me saying hate to admit it but he's looking worst by the day


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## Fade and Die (Dec 21, 2020)

3 defensive midfielders and a striker that doesn’t hold the ball up. Always going to be under pressure.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 21, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			3 defensive midfielders and a striker that doesn’t hold the ball up. Always going to be under pressure.
		
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Is that his role? Walking round like a lost tourist 

Needs hooking ASAP


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## Fade and Die (Dec 21, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Is that his role? Walking round like a lost tourist

Needs hooking ASAP
		
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When Snodgrass is brought on for Bowen (around the 75th minute)I think it might be the slowest team we have ever fielded!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 21, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Noble showing why he shouldn't be near a professional football team

I've even got his biggest fans txting me saying hate to admit it but he's looking worst by the day
		
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33 years old and time to move him on. Doing you no favours


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## pauljames87 (Dec 21, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			When Snodgrass is brought on for Bowen (around the 75th minute)I think it might be the slowest team we have ever fielded!
		
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I'm hoping he is hooked at half time for benharmi 

He looks awful ..

He's playing up front now by looks..great


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## pauljames87 (Dec 21, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			33 years old and time to move him on. Doing you no favours
		
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Need to send him to the glue factory


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## Fade and Die (Dec 21, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			33 years old and time to move him on. Doing you no favours
		
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He would make a useful walking footballer.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 21, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			He would make a useful walking footballer.
		
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He get out walked


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## 2blue (Dec 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			didnt hurt Grealish last night lol, got a pen and a man sent off 

Click to expand...

Just like Salah, Grealish asks questions of defences.......  brilliant!!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 21, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			He would make a useful walking footballer.
		
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Hooking fornals instead jezz

We need fornals on in the middle he would offer more than noble just with his speed of vision

Noble gets the ball and stops.. 30 seconds pass .. slows the entire game 

The rest get the ball. run a few yards before passing. changing the angle that's what u need


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## pauljames87 (Dec 21, 2020)

What happens when you play a player who means your midfield is completely one dimensional

On Moyes tonight he knows noble is limited


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## pauljames87 (Dec 21, 2020)

Only twice in the premier League this season west ham have failed to score. Noble started both of these 

He really does stifle our play


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## Dando (Dec 21, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Has anyone checked on chrisd, dando, and swingalot? Really hope they’re ok

🥴
		
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I hope your not suggesting I’m a palace fan


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## Stuart_C (Dec 21, 2020)

Dignity Dave cryarsing over refereeing decisions 😁😁😁


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## Stuart_C (Dec 21, 2020)

Werner is a shadow of his former self bit too early to suggest he's a flop but he needs to start banging goals in.


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## davemc1 (Dec 21, 2020)

Dando said:



			I hope your not suggesting I’m a palace fan
		
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Sorry if I got you mixed up mate. I can only imagine the offence and embarrassment this must of caused 🥺


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is whether he has 2 good years left in him? Not every player needs to be young and for the future but you do need to know you are not buying someone who's legs have gone and has just hit the wall. We have done plenty of that in the past, it is clearly something you are  familiar with at Arsenal as well. I'd take him if we could get 2 good seasons out of him. That is enough.
		
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2 words, Gary Mcallister.

3 more, Robin Van Persie.

A final 2, Andy Gray.


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## Dando (Dec 22, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Sorry if I got you mixed up mate. I can only imagine the offence and embarrassment this must of caused 🥺
		
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I need counselling mate and the mrs took all sharp things out of the house.


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## Swingalot (Dec 22, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Sorry if I got you mixed up mate. I can only imagine the offence and embarrassment this must of caused 🥺
		
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How do you unlike a comment on here?


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## Swingalot (Dec 22, 2020)

Dando said:



			I need counselling mate and the mrs took all sharp things out of the house.
		
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You'll need more than that trust me


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2020)

In between everything that has gone on it’s always great to see footballers bring a smile to people during these times. Clubs visiting children’s hospital during Xmas was always something that helped and it’s a shame they can go this year but this is still great and no doubt it made the kids year 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341322594763624449


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## chrisd (Dec 22, 2020)

Dando said:



			I need counselling mate and the mrs took all sharp things out of the house.
		
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A change to a decent family club who cant "buy" the Premiership could be a great move for you James


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## Dando (Dec 22, 2020)

chrisd said:



			A change to a decent family club who cant "buy" the Premiership could be a great move for you James
		
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millwall it is then


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## hairball_89 (Dec 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In between everything that has gone on it’s always great to see footballers bring a smile to people during these times. Clubs visiting children’s hospital during Xmas was always something that helped and it’s a shame they can go this year but this is still great and no doubt it made the kids year


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341322594763624449

Click to expand...

I bloody love Robbo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			I bloody love Robbo.
		
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He is brilliant - on and off the pitch. 

It’s no coincidence that we are doing well when we have a top scottish player in the team and he up there with the best we have had


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## chrisd (Dec 22, 2020)

Dando said:



			millwall it is then
		
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Ok, you wouldn't be wise to remove everything sharp from the house as your first home game would probably need you to turn up with a large sharp implement 😖😖


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## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2020)

This is why I prefer life under Moyes ..

Frederik Alves a young defender has just signed for us ... Well 2nd January he joins 

Very low key not a long drawn out affair ... Done early 

Much better than a scatter gun last min job


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## anotherdouble (Dec 22, 2020)

I see captain Black needs more than the mysterons to help him out of the mire at the Emirates


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2020)

anotherdouble said:



			I see captain Black needs more than the mysterons to help him out of the mire at the Emirates
		
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Bit unlucky .
Goalie howler.
Lino howler that third looked miles offside.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bit unlucky .
Goalie howler.
Lino howler that third looked miles offside.
		
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Don’t think it is just this game by all accounts from what I read and hear


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## Orikoru (Dec 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bit unlucky .
Goalie howler.
Lino howler that third looked miles offside.
		
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Unlucky? No one in that Arsenal team looks like they even want the ball back. City just tapping it around under no pressure at all.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bit unlucky .
Goalie howler.
Lino howler that third looked miles offside.
		
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Don't think luck had too much to do with it in the end although I agree the third goal did look marginal.

Just like the other times when I have seen Arsenal on the box recently they don't look anything like the quality they  used to be.

Still  a big club but a poor team.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 22, 2020)

Worst City display Ave seen this season against a woeful Arsenal side. If they don’t buck up they will be playing Sheff Utd next year.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2020)

I see the pathetic Fulham red card has been rescinded after the VAR recommended the on field ref go over to the monitor and change his mind to give him a red card. 

So a missed  "clear and obvious" decision has turned out to be incorrect 🤣🤣🤣


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## Papas1982 (Dec 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is brilliant - on and off the pitch.

It’s no coincidence that we are doing well when we have a top scottish player in the team and he up there with the best we have had
		
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Not sure why him being Scottish has any relevance to your success tbh, but he is quality. 

My fav moment of his was the world club comp where he went in on the defender who'd been all over mane. 

He seems an old school player in terms of attitude.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



*Not sure why him being Scottish has any relevance to your success tbh*, but he is quality.

My fav moment of his was the world club comp where he went in on the defender who'd been all over mane.

He seems an old school player in terms of attitude.
		
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A little bit of footballing history but we’ve never won the league without a Jock in our side.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			A little bit of footballing history but we’ve never won the league without a Jock in our side.
		
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I presumed that was the case. Its more the fact that of how it was worded tbh. 

It came a across as though you weren't capable of winning a title without some sort of trate a Scotsman brings to your team, when realistically that's just a coincidence.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Unlucky? No one in that Arsenal team looks like they even want the ball back. City just tapping it around under no pressure at all.
		
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At 1-1 your still in any game even if your playing crap.
They were unlucky with the second and third goals .
They have very little fight in them and look a very poor team atm.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I presumed that was the case. Its more the fact that of how it was worded tbh.

It came a across as though you weren't capable of winning a title without some sort of trate a Scotsman brings to your team, when realistically that's just a coincidence.
		
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18 times is more than a coincidence😄😄


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## pauljames87 (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			18 times is more than a coincidence😄😄
		
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Or is it more when Scotland get a decent footballer Liverpool win the title?

Let's face it they haven't had superstars for a while


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			18 times is more than a coincidence😄😄
		
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If you look at the era when you won most of them, how teams were made up at that time, then it isn't really. If Chelsea or City had a similar record, new era wins, then it would stand out more as exceptional.

Annoyingly, the player in question is very, very good. He isn't picked for his 'lucky Scot' credentials


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you look at the era when you won most of them, how teams were made up at that time, then it isn't really. If Chelsea or City had a similar record, new era wins, then it would stand out more as exceptional.

Annoyingly, the player in question is very, very good. He isn't picked for his 'lucky Scot' credentials 

Click to expand...

Or has Klopp just made him a better player?
Superstition or coincidence we have had the cream of the crop over the years of Scottish lads.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 23, 2020)

Who was the last English team to win the title with English players. #nohistory😉

Although they did have a token “ jock” who played four games inc 2 as a sub.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Or has Klopp just made him a better player?
Superstition or coincidence we have had the cream of the crop over the years of Scottish lads.
		
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Klopp is a coach who improves players but that player has to have something in the first place. A joint effort, as it should be.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Not sure why him being Scottish has any relevance to your success tbh, but he is quality.

My fav moment of his was the world club comp where he went in on the defender who'd been all over mane.

He seems an old school player in terms of attitude.
		
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It’s exactly how I say it - when we have a World Class jock playing for us we win the big trophies , they just seem to connect with the fans both on and off the field - and Robbo is keeping up that mantel.  

It’s quite staggering how a player jumps from Hull to be the best left back in the world - TAA gets a lot more limelight but as Neville says - he just needs to learn from Robbo if he really wants to a truely world class player. 

Unbelievable player


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## Papas1982 (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			18 times is more than a coincidence😄😄
		
Click to expand...

I'd imagine most clubs that won all their titles prior to the influx of overseas players for the PL could have a similar situation (not 18 obv). 

If having a socttish player in your team is a prerequisite for a title win then what the hell were all your other managers doing not signing one! 😉


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



*If you look at the era when you won most of them, how teams were made up at that time, then it isn't really.* If Chelsea or City had a similar record, new era wins, then it would stand out more as exceptional.

Annoyingly, the player in question is very, very good. He isn't picked for his 'lucky Scot' credentials 

Click to expand...

OK Mr Pedant's, its only a bit of fun 😉


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'd imagine most clubs that won all their titles prior to the influx of overseas players for the PL could have a similar situation (not 18 obv).

*If having a socttish player in your team is a prerequisite for a title win then what the hell were all your other managers doing not signing one*! 😉
		
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They did , but we ended up with the likes of Charlie Adam 🤦🤦🤦


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2020)

Keiren Tripper banned  from all football by the FA. I can't understand how footballers get caught out breaching gambling rules. Stupidity.

Has Keiren Trippier's credibility gone now he's been found guilty for gambling? 

Should he ever represent England again?


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## Papas1982 (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Keiren Tripper banned  from all football by the FA. I can't understand how footballers get caught out breaching gambling rules. Stupidity.

Has Keiren Trippier's credibility gone now he's been found guilty for gambling?

Should he ever represent England again?
		
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I don’t think he’s actually good enough. Not when you Have TAA and amd Reece James with Walker as cover for rb and cb.

I personally think it’s stupidity, but at the same time a lot will say it’s an addiction and he needs help not ostracising.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I don’t think he’s actually good enough. Not when you Have TAA and amd Reece James with Walker as cover for rb and cb.

I personally think it’s stupidity, but at the same time a lot will say it’s an addiction and he needs help not ostracising.
		
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Whilst I agree to an extent, he needs to accept responsibility and take both the ban and any help if he has an addiction. 

I doubt he's got an addiction, he's been done for passing info on about his move to AM. The problem  with this sort of stuff is people get greedy.  So instead of having a couple of ton on something they don't, they smash the arse out of it.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Whilst I agree to an extent, he needs to accept responsibility and take both the ban and any help if he has an addiction.

I doubt he's got an addiction, he's been done for passing info on about his move to AM. The problem  with this sort of stuff is people get greedy.  So instead of having a couple of ton on something they don't, they smash the arse out of it.
		
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Tbf I'd not seen the details of the case. I thought it was him just betting. 

If he's effectively used insider trading then imo that's bringing the game into disrepute and to represent England you should be beyond reproach. This fails in that count. That being said, there are lots of players that by that standard should of had less caps....


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			OK Mr Pedant's, its only a bit of fun 😉
		
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Fun, fun? This isn't a thread for fun. This isn't the Corona virus thread you know.


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## fundy (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Whilst I agree to an extent, he needs to accept responsibility and take both the ban and any help if he has an addiction.

I doubt he's got an addiction, he's been done for passing info on about his move to AM. The problem  with this sort of stuff is people get greedy.  So instead of having a couple of ton on something they don't, they smash the arse out of it.
		
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whos laying more than a couple of ton on these sorts of markets anymore?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			whos laying more than a couple of ton on these sorts of markets anymore?
		
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Depends who you are 😉


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2020)

Ive enjoyed watching the last few League Cup games with no VAR, football is so much better instead of stop/start PL games.


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## fundy (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ive enjoyed watching the last few League Cup games with no VAR, football is so much better instead of stop/start PL games.
		
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city goal shouldve been chalked off last night and sons goal shouldve stood tonight (cost me a chunk too). both clear and obvious

less impressed


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			city goal shouldve been chalked off last night and sons goal shouldve stood tonight (cost me a chunk too). both clear and obvious

less impressed 

Click to expand...

Sod off. Only "Clear and Obvious"  when the game has been stopped and the pitch covered in lines☹

Son's was a close one,  you'll have to remind me which City one? 

On a side note, only having VAR in the semis and final devalues the competition for me.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I presumed that was the case. Its more the fact that of how it was worded tbh.

It came a across as though you weren't capable of winning a title without some sort of trate a Scotsman brings to your team, when realistically that's just a coincidence.
		
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One of the leagues we won around the early 1900's, we were called the team of macs, think it had 6 or 7 macs in it.

Liverpool traditionally recruited Scottish players, Everton recruited Irish. Its why Everton are more traditionally associated as a tiny bit more Catholic/Irish than us, but not markedly so with Catholic and proddies supporting both in more or less equal measure.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			18 times is more than a coincidence😄😄
		
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19?


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## Papas1982 (Dec 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			One of the leagues we won around the early 1900's, we were called the team of macs, thing it had 6 or 7 macs in it.

Liverpool traditionally recruited Scottish players, Everton recruited Irish. Its why Everton are more traditionally associated as a tiny bit more Catholic/Irish than us, but not markedly so with Catholic and proddies supporting both in more or less equal measure.
		
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Yeah I totally get the historical references you n stu raise.
just think it’s pie in the sky to think it’s anything more than coincidental that you won because you had Robbo.


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## fundy (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Sod off. Only "Clear and Obvious"  when the game has been stopped and the pitch covered in lines☹

Son's was a close one,  you'll have to remind me which City one?

On a side note, only having VAR in the semis and final devalues the competition for me.
		
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Son was a yard onside running sideways lol, Foden was offside for his goal last night


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Whilst I agree to an extent, he needs to accept responsibility and take both the ban and any help if he has an addiction.

I doubt he's got an addiction, he's been done for passing info on about his move to AM. The problem  with this sort of stuff is people get greedy.  So instead of having a couple of ton on something they don't, they smash the arse out of it.
		
Click to expand...

I agree. We can't know of course if its an addiction or taking advantage of a situation but he definitely shouldn't get anywhere an England side again, not that I thought he was that good when he did.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Yeah I totally get the historical references you n stu raise.
just think it’s pie in the sky to think it’s anything more than coincidental that you won because you had Robbo.
		
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I do with regards to winning the last one, but Liverpool as a football club has always had lots of Scottish players, and as I said one of the early league titles were called the team of Macs, and we all love a bit of tradition. As a city it has always had a strong connection with Scotland also, on WW1 we had the Liverpool Scottish regiments.

Newcastle and Manchester may have also, I dont know.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I do with regards to winning the last one, but Liverpool as a football club has always had lots of Scottish players, and as I said one of the early league titles were called the team of Macs, and we all love a bit of tradition. As a city it has always had a strong connection with Scotland also, on WW1 we had the Liverpool Scottish regiments.

Newcastle and Manchester may have also, I dont know.
		
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Yeah im pretty much in the same page Pete. 

Even without your tradition, logic dictates most teams will of had more brits in them Pre PL. 
Give it 20 years and you’ll be talking about how you’ve never won a PL without an ex Saints player


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Yeah im pretty much in the same page Pete.

Even without your tradition, logic dictates most teams will of had more brits in them Pre PL.
Give it 20 years and you’ll be talking about how you’ve never won a PL without an ex Saints player 

Click to expand...

All pots run dry.....


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## Orikoru (Dec 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ive enjoyed watching the last few League Cup games with no VAR, football is so much better instead of stop/start PL games.
		
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fundy said:



			Son was a yard onside running sideways lol, Foden was offside for his goal last night
		
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Yeah, the truth is somewhere between the two sadly. The games were certainly better to watch - but two blatantly wrong decisions there. Luckily neither affected the results.


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## Kellfire (Dec 24, 2020)

Tuchel sacked by PSG with rumours that Poch is his replacement


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 24, 2020)

That just shows what sort of club PSG are

I point off the top , through into the KO stages of the CL

Yet sacked ?!

Also seen a lot of stuff about the Richarlinson incident where he was wiped out by Bailly after a small push by Fernandes


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## Kellfire (Dec 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That just shows what sort of club PSG are

I point off the top , through into the KO stages of the CL

Yet sacked ?!

Also seen a lot of stuff about the Richarlinson incident where he was wiped out by Bailly after a small push by Fernandes
		
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Naughty from Fernandes. Not quite at the Kane level of doing it while the player is airborne and he can’t know that Bailly is going to make the follow up challenge but it looks bad.


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## Reemul (Dec 24, 2020)

Cavani stranglehold not good either


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## Orikoru (Dec 24, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Cavani stranglehold not good either
		
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Tbf as it was on Mina I'd let him off. Mina is an insufferable wind-up merchant.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 26, 2020)

Grealish stays on his feet with contact for one and gets a great chance 

Shows he can stay on his feet when he chooses


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## pauljames87 (Dec 26, 2020)

Ming's stupid there 

Got booked for a dodgy tackle / bit of afters with zaha 

Then decides to foul him again just after 

Game on second half!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2020)

Zaha is as bad as you can get when it comes to histrionics and throwing himself to the ground - talented player but seems to spend all match throwing his teddies about. His reaction from the first issue with Mings got him booked when he didnt really do much and even that episode was started with Zaha doing a little push but even then Zaha throws himself to the ground to get the second yellow. All a bit pathetic


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 26, 2020)

Poor decision imo to send Mings off.
Saha pushed him first so if that’s a foul and a red why hasn’t Saha been punished for the push.
That’s bad reffing for me.
Was a good game but attack v defence now.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2020)

Well that's a pen imo. 

A crappy one to have go agaisnt you. But have defo been plenty awarded for lesser handballs.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 26, 2020)

Very good from Villa second half.
Can see a red for Palace coming .


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 26, 2020)

Villa brilliant second half.
Suprized me thought they may sit back.
Grealish and Watkins excellent and the keeper.
Poor from Palace


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2020)

One mighty odd looking Arsenal side

Good to see Smith Rowe and Martinelli in

Horror to see Xhaka brought straight back after suspension yet again, disgusting in fact, surprised to see Elneny too, surprised to see Bellerin ahead of AMN

Merry xmas Chelsea


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## Piece (Dec 26, 2020)

Chose the wrong game to watch. Fulham v Saints a dull 0-0.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2020)

oh joy, Gabriel self isolating so misses next 3 games


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

This is one strange line up. Certainly would not have picked Xhaka, and Lacazette is a strange choice of striker, given he is a bit crap.


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			oh joy, Gabriel self isolating so misses next 3 games
		
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On the bright side, so does Luiz. I think.


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## paddyc (Dec 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			One mighty odd looking Arsenal side

Good to see Smith Rowe and Martinelli in

Horror to see Xhaka brought straight back after suspension yet again, disgusting in fact, surprised to see Elneny too, surprised to see Bellerin ahead of AMN

Merry xmas Chelsea
		
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mmm....obviously  losing patience  with  Pepe. Wtf is Xhaka  doing back in there. Could have stuck  Ceballos or  AMN as CDM.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2020)

Mari looks a typical arsenal centre half


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Villa brilliant second half.
Suprized me thought they may sit back.
Grealish and Watkins excellent and the keeper.
Poor from Palace
		
Click to expand...

I only saw the second half. Villa are quite a side this year, have you seen the table? Grealish was excellent. Running with the ball, his vision and passing all high quality. A real pleasure to watch.

Do you think villa would do a swap, Iwobi, Bolassie, and Tosun for Grealish 🤔. No, maybe not 🤣


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## Slime (Dec 26, 2020)

That was simply NOT a penalty.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2020)

Slime said:



			That was simply NOT a penalty.
		
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think you'll find the ref pointed to the spot and VAR confirmed it so it was 

definitely soft though


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## Swingalot (Dec 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Zaha is as bad as you can get when it comes to histrionics and throwing himself to the ground - talented player but seems to spend all match throwing his teddies about. His reaction from the first issue with Mings got him booked when he didnt really do much and even that episode was started with Zaha doing a little push but even then Zaha throws himself to the ground to get the second yellow. All a bit pathetic
		
Click to expand...

Find me one clip where Zaha throws himself to the ground with no contact or obviously after contact is made? MANY others in the PL who are guilty of that. Wilf gets regularly fouled out of games as teams know if they keep him quiet then they keep us quiet. He gets frustrated and yes does get easily would up, but i would imagine being talented but then having to play with the inconsistent lot we had out today.... I would have been throwing the toys as well!!! 


The team performance today was appalling.  That added to the 2nd half against Liverpool and its worrying times. Time for a change in management is not far away, we are going stale


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Slime said:



			That was simply NOT a penalty.
		
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With where we are, I will take anything, just don't care.


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## paddyc (Dec 26, 2020)

Slime said:



			That was simply NOT a penalty.
		
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Stone wall mate🤣🤣🤣


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Hmm. Just, hmm.


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## paddyc (Dec 26, 2020)

Always said Xhaka was class!!


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2020)

first free kick that hasnt ended up in row z for a while, should keep him in the side for the rest of the season


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Really pleased Xhaka scored, but, just but. It doesn't mean he should be on the pitch.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Really pleased Xhaka scored, but, just but. It doesn't mean he should be on the pitch.
		
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worded it better than me


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			think you'll find the ref pointed to the spot and VAR confirmed it so it was 

definitely soft though
		
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Can't believe the onfield ref wasn't asked to look at the pitchside monitor for that. Soft doesn't cover it.


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can't believe the onfield ref wasn't asked to look at the pitchside monitor for that. Soft doesn't cover it.
		
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Dragging a leg is nothing new. Soft? May be, but defenders have known about this for ages. Kane, among others, have mastered this. It's a legit strategy, and the defender is a mug for falling for it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 26, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			It's a legit strategy, and the defender is a mug for falling for it.
		
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Pretty much what they said in commentary and in the studio. The player got done and compounded the error by trying to make a tackle. Defenders still aren't learning


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Just wow.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 26, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Dragging a leg is nothing new. Soft? May be, but defenders have known about this for ages. Kane, among others, have mastered this. It's a legit strategy, and the defender is a mug for falling for it.
		
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Gary Neville quoted Robert Pires as being the master of it. It's cheating and it being classed as legit is a sad state of affairs.

Even dragging his leg, this one was not a penalty.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2020)

feel like im in a dream and gonna wake up soon, someone pinch me


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2020)

You're never gonna win the league if you can't be the relegation teams.....


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Not being daft, but why did Chelsea give Saka a clear run at goal? Great shot, but surely Chelsea should be trying to stop possibly the only Arsenal player who is dangerous? 

Oh, Martinelli is a bit hot too.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 26, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			You're never gonna win the league if you can't be the relegation teams.....
		
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It was their "save our season" moment 

Think they might survive now


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## Slime (Dec 26, 2020)

This is a bit embarrassing for Chelsea.


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Just where the heck has this been this season? 

OK, some team selections have been a bit rubbish, and Willian is garbage, but this is more like it. Xhaka is still crap, but this is a performance. It's where it should be.


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## paddyc (Dec 26, 2020)

Can't believe Lampard hasn't thrown Giroud on. Chelsea getting a lot of crosses in and we are not a big side Arteta putting Willock not a great move imo.Not a fan of his at all.


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Tierney is my man of the match.


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## Slime (Dec 26, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Can't believe Lampard hasn't thrown Giroud on. Chelsea getting a lot of crosses in and we are not a big side Arteta putting Willock not a great move imo.Not a fan of his at all.
		
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I find that very strange.
Giroud is a terrific player, especially in the air.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Tierney is my man of the match.
		
Click to expand...

Thought holding was excellent first half, Saka been good too, expect the comms give it to Xhaka (has been one of his better games in fairness)


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## Imurg (Dec 26, 2020)

Surely at 3-0 down and 10 minutes to go you throw the kitchen sink at it.....


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			Thought holding was excellent first half, Saka been good too, expect the comms give it to Xhaka (has been one of his better games in fairness)
		
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Can't disagree with any of this, and goal scorers often get it, but for me, it's Tierney.


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Give them a goal, whatever, but var is crap.


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## paddyc (Dec 26, 2020)

Saka been great but whole team have put in a huge shift and superb performance


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Leno. Not as good as Emi Martinez, but given he is our keeper, take that. Good save.


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Saka, motm, can't complain.


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

Anyone but Xhaka really.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2020)

Cracking result, eases the pressure a bit that. 

Hopefully well see a lot more of the likes of smith rowe and martinelli going forward after this performance, bit of luck he'll give even more of the youngsters more chances going forward


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## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			Cracking result, eases the pressure a bit that.

Hopefully well see a lot more of the likes of smith rowe and martinelli going forward after this performance, bit of luck he'll give even more of the youngsters more chances going forward
		
Click to expand...

Yep, no more Luiz, Willian, hopefully Xhaka, just to name a few. Just roll with the kids, and some limited others.


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## davemc1 (Dec 26, 2020)

Great result for Arsenal 😃 however shaky they looked at the end there 😳😆


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2020)

Never a penalty but I think Arsenal were well worth their win

When you spend that much money Abramovich would want to see more than what he is getting , is Lampard under pressure ? Job too big or too early for him


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Job too big or too early for him
		
Click to expand...

Win would have taken them 2nd so I don't think its too big. Bad day. Every club has them


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2020)

5.9 for Andre Gomes, one of the better ones ive seen lately lol


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 26, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I only saw the second half. Villa are quite a side this year, have you seen the table? Grealish was excellent. Running with the ball, his vision and passing all high quality. A real pleasure to watch.

Do you think villa would do a swap, Iwobi, Bolassie, and Tosun for Grealish 🤔. No, maybe not 🤣
		
Click to expand...

NO.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			Find me one clip where Zaha throws himself to the ground with no contact or obviously after contact is made? MANY others in the PL who are guilty of that. Wilf gets regularly fouled out of games as teams know if they keep him quiet then they keep us quiet. He gets frustrated and yes does get easily would up, *but i would imagine being talented but then having to play with the inconsistent lot we had out today*.... I would have been throwing the toys as well!!!


The team performance today was appalling.  That added to the 2nd half against Liverpool and its worrying times. Time for a change in management is not far away, we are going stale
		
Click to expand...

Too easy to blame his teammates, I'd be looking at the dinosaur on the bench for the last few performamces and results. Imagine having all that talent and playing for a manager like him.

He had 45mins to change Palace today to make the most of the extra man and he failed.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			5.9 for Andre Gomes, one of the better ones ive seen lately lol
		
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Where's @pauldj42  condemning his action 😁😉


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Win would have taken them 2nd so I don't think its too big. Bad day. Every club has them
		
Click to expand...

They never and they're 7th now so it's a fair question.

I think LP may have a point  but it's too early to judge. That said, he's got a lot of expensive talent in that squad that aren't firing, FL needs to address that pretty quickly IMO. 

 LP should stick to hockey😉


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## Orikoru (Dec 27, 2020)

With the money spent Lampard doesn't have the excuse of last year when he was rebuilding with youth players thanks to the transfer ban - they should really be up there challenging for the title. They're not a million miles off, but it does seem to two steps forward then one or even two steps back again with them. They just didn't turn up today at all, they were woeful.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			With the money spent Lampard doesn't have the excuse of last year when he was rebuilding with youth players thanks to the transfer ban - they should really be up there challenging for the title. They're not a million miles off, but it does seem to two steps forward then one or even two steps back again with them. They just didn't turn up today at all, they were woeful.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think he was using excuses after the game, in fact he questioned his players desire and hunger but in a way the players should respond..Lampard I thought was professional the way he said it. Not like how Jose gets personal.
That said, I thought Woy at Palace should of given his players a round of rammels. There efforts in closing down and chasing Villa were shocking.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I don't think he was using excuses after the game, in fact he questioned his players desire and hunger but in a way the players should respond..Lampard I thought was professional the way he said it. Not like how Jose gets personal.
That said, I thought Woy at Palace should of given his players a round of rammels. There efforts in closing down and chasing Villa were shocking.
		
Click to expand...

I really liked the way Villa played with 10 men.
Grealish stayed out on the left wing and gave his team an out ball. 
Instead of parking the bus Villa were the better team by a mile.
The Manager deserves credit for that.
Palace just failed to deal with the fact Villa left two men forward at all times.
They were lucky it wasn’t more.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			With the money spent Lampard doesn't have the excuse of last year when he was rebuilding with youth players thanks to the transfer ban - they should really be up there challenging for the title. They're not a million miles off, but it does seem to two steps forward then one or even two steps back again with them. They just didn't turn up today at all, they were woeful.
		
Click to expand...

In fairness to Lamport, its only 15 games in. 

I think a lot of people's expectations rise when a few quid has been spent. Managers get judged too quickly and usually after a few defeats the knives are out.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I really liked the way Villa played with 10 men.
Grealish stayed out on the left wing and gave his team an out ball.
Instead of parking the bus Villa were the better team by a mile.
The Manager deserves credit for that.
Palace just failed to deal with the fact Villa left two men forward at all times.
They were lucky it wasn’t more.
		
Click to expand...

Not surprised by Hodgson's dinosaur tactics.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Not surprised by Hodgson's dinosaur tactics.
		
Click to expand...

Well if he persists with Benteke he’s playing a man down .
He was dreadful again.


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2020)

Whats the point of VAR if it doesnt overrule this decision in the Leeds game?


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			Whats the point of VAR if it doesnt overrule this decision in the Leeds game?
		
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I think they've got both the main decisions wrong so far. I thought Pope got to the ball before Bamford and then Bamford went into him. And to disallow the Burnley goal because the keeper jumped into the Burnley player was also wrong.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			Whats the point of VAR if it doesnt overrule this decision in the Leeds game?
		
Click to expand...

If it was Kane he’d have got a pen 😀

It was that clear, VAR didn’t need to get involved.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			Whats the point of VAR if it doesnt overrule this decision in the Leeds game?
		
Click to expand...

It's like they didn't even check it! Least ask the ref to check the monitor he could then decide for himself


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's like they didn't even check it! Least ask the ref to check the monitor he could then decide for himself
		
Click to expand...

dont think they did because hed blown before Barnes banged it in, according to the comms


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			dont think they did because hed blown before Barnes banged it in
		
Click to expand...

I guess they could argue that because the whistle had gone players might switch off 

Butterfly effect 

Bit still what a poor decision


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## BiMGuy (Dec 27, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I think they've got both the main decisions wrong so far. I thought Pope got to the ball before Bamford and then Bamford went into him. And to disallow the Burnley goal because the keeper jumped into the Burnley player was also wrong.
		
Click to expand...

It was a clear pen for Leeds. Pope wasn't in control. 

But the free kick for Meslier was wrong. But, incidents like that mostly go in the goalkeepers favour.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			dont think they did because hed blown before Barnes banged it in, according to the comms
		
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The ref had blown before the shot. So nothing can be done about it.


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2020)

The joke is we have to wait for the linemen to put their flags up for offside until play has developed but the ref insta blows when if he doesnt then the goal stands


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			The ref had blown before the shot. So nothing can be done about it.
		
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The goal can't be given but VAR can still look at the challenge by the keeper and give a penalty.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2020)

Just see the incidents - 

That’s not a penalty , Pope got the ball surely ?

And then that’s a penalty for Burnley because the GK has clearly fouled the CB who is looking only at the ball 

They are the exact reasons why they have VAR


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## Fade and Die (Dec 27, 2020)

I hate Moyes sometimes.... 8 defensive minded outfield players. 20% possession absolutely toothless. West Ham owners and management getting away with murder in an empty athletics stadium.


----------



## DanFST (Dec 27, 2020)

Brighton deserved that.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 27, 2020)

No one there to boo them off either.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			No one there to boo them off either.
		
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Time to retire noble 

2 and a half games with him playing from the start 

0 goals


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## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			No one there to boo them off either.
		
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Or cheer them on and encourage them.
Performing better than without their usual toxic atmosphere.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Or cheer them on and encourage them.
Performing better than without their usual toxic atmosphere.
		
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Thank you. Our fans are part of the reason we are always relegation fodder 

One poor game and that's it .. boo

Too much blinded by hatred towards owners forgot the number one job is to support


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## Fade and Die (Dec 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Or cheer them on and encourage them.
*Performing better* than without their usual toxic atmosphere.
		
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Assume your not watching. West Ham have now played 2 hours without a shot on target.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Assume your not watching. West Ham have now played 2 hours without a shot on target.
		
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2 hours with noble on lol just saying


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## Fade and Die (Dec 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Thank you. Our fans are part of the reason we are always relegation fodder

One poor game and that's it .. boo

Too much blinded by hatred towards owners forgot the number one job is to support
		
Click to expand...

We have owners who are happy just to be in the premier league and a manager who is just grateful to have a job, they are getting away with absolute dirge but you think the fans booing is the problem?? 😂😂😂


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## Fade and Die (Dec 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			2 hours with noble on lol just saying
		
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Noble and Haller, absolutely stealing a living.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			We have owners who are happy just to be in the premier league and a manager who is just grateful to have a job, they are getting away with absolute dirge but you think the fans booing is the problem?? 😂😂😂
		
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Fans are a part of it

Why do u think since project restart we looked better

Our owners are the cause but the fans focus on them and forget there are players and a game going on


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## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Assume your not watching. West Ham have now played 2 hours without a shot on target.
		
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Yeah I'm watching. You have been dire. 

But this season you're doing as well as you realistically should be. In fact you've not got the points your performances have warranted on some occasions. 

If your fans were there and booed that first half I'd expect you to lose easily. Without them, you may just turn it around.


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## DanFST (Dec 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Thank you. Our fans are part of the reason we are always relegation fodder

One poor game and that's it .. boo

Too much blinded by hatred towards owners forgot the number one job is to support
		
Click to expand...


Do you go?


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## Fade and Die (Dec 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Fans are a part of it

Why do u think since project restart we looked better

Our owners are the cause but the fans focus on them and forget there are players and a game going on
		
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Mainly because they have forked out a load of cash up front they feel they should have their say.

Anyway he’s made some changes let’s see if it has an effect. Setting up for a draw at home to Brighton is unacceptable.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Noble and Haller, absolutely stealing a living.
		
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Nothing wrong with Haller. Needs support 

First shot on target from him


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Do you go?
		
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Does it matter anymore? No

I had a season ticket for 10 years 

Throughout all 3 championship seasons 

Seen us Moan for brown out 

We are never happy


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## Fade and Die (Dec 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Yeah I'm watching. *You have been dire.*

But this season you're doing as well as you realistically should be. In fact you've not got the points your performances have warranted on some occasions.

If your fans were there and booed that first half I'd expect you to lose easily. Without them, you may just turn it around.
		
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So should that load of crap be cheered off??

Fans do give support but it’s always been a two way thing, if the players look as if they are just going through the motions they will get abuse.


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## DanFST (Dec 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Does it matter anymore? No
		
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It does when you are telling fans that are paying money what you think their job is.

I used to go home and away, even when I lived in Leeds. I gave the OS a chance and after we thumped Chelsea I never went back. I can see the stadium from my office and when i'm working late, i'd rather be in the office than in that bowl. I made the choice, but i;d never dream of telling people who are paying money, who haven't given up what to "their job is".

Edit: you should know seeing as you have been their for over 10 years. Who are the cult heros? Who doesn't get booed. 2 recent examples Carlton cole and Antonio. Pretty average players, that never stopped running and gave 110%. That's all most of us ask for.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

DanFST said:



			It does when you are telling fans that are paying money what you think their job is. 

I used to go home and away, even when I lived in Leeds. I gave the OS a chance and after we thumped Chelsea I never went back. I can see the stadium from my office and when i'm working late, i'd rather be in the office than in that bowl. I made the choice, but i;d never dream of telling people who are paying money, who haven't given up what to "their job is".
		
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Never boo you own. What's the points of supporters if you don't support?

Oh and good finish from Johnson. Good lad


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

DanFST said:



			It does when you are telling fans that are paying money what you think their job is.

I used to go home and away, even when I lived in Leeds. I gave the OS a chance and after we thumped Chelsea I never went back. I can see the stadium from my office and when i'm working late, i'd rather be in the office than in that bowl. I made the choice, but i;d never dream of telling people who are paying money, who haven't given up what to "their job is".

Edit: you should know seeing as you have been their for over 10 years. Who are the cult heros? Who doesn't get booed. 2 recent examples Carlton cole and Antonio. Pretty average players, that never stopped running and gave 110%. That's all most of us ask for.
		
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Fed up with this English mentally towards football

So long as you run around and smile your a good player 

Cole was average and even he admit but was a hero because 

Haller is better than Cole but doesn't smile so he's rubbish 

So many fans don't rate fornals but he is such a clever player .. now he runs a bit more he won a few fans over 

Keep smiling and running .


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2020)

DanFST said:



			It does when you are telling fans that are paying money what you think their job is.

I used to go home and away, even when I lived in Leeds. I gave the OS a chance and after we thumped Chelsea I never went back. I can see the stadium from my office and when i'm working late, i'd rather be in the office than in that bowl. I made the choice, but i;d never dream of telling people who are paying money, who haven't given up what to "their job is".

Edit: you should know seeing as you have been their for over 10 years. Who are the cult heros? Who doesn't get booed. 2 recent examples Carlton cole and Antonio. *Pretty average players, that never stopped running and gave 110%. That's all most of us ask for.*

Click to expand...




I once saw a Shaun Goater interview, he was bang average and could not understand why he got flak from the City fans. Cannot remember which player told him that if he put in a lot more effort instead of waiting for the ball to come to him, he will win the fans over. Over the next few months, he run his guts off. He won balls he never would of normally gone for. Typified when he closed down Gary Neville in the last Derby at Maine rd and scored. He is now a City, legend/ cult hero/ whatever you want.
The fans want players that try.Watching Chelsea and Palace yesterday. They should think themselves lucky that fans were not there because both teams would of had a round of shags off there own fans.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2020)

It always seems the same with West Ham fans and booing their own players , I’m not sure if it’s down to false expectations of the team or it’s just habit these days, it’s the same when Everton fans start to demand the manager is gone despite being at where you expect the club to be. 

It’s no surprise that West Ham have done better since no supporters where allowed into the stadium. What do West Ham expect , is it this “mythical West Ham way to play” that they did once back in the 60’s, the same as what some Spurs go on about. I can understand if West Ham were at the bottom and struggling but they are doing well - mid table pack , where you would expect them surely


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## IanM (Dec 27, 2020)

West Ham doing my acca in for me right now


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

IanM said:



			West Ham doing my acca in for me right now 

Click to expand...

Haven't beaten Brighton in last 6 games was always gonna cost ya lol


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## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			So should that load of crap be cheered off??

Fans do give support but it’s always been a two way thing, if the players look as if they are just going through the motions they will get abuse.
		
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No of course not, and if you were underperforming (this season) I believe it has a place.

But you are performing as expected. So maybe after one real poor half the best option would be to encourage. That being said, thats not the West Ham way. As has been seen many a time, your ground can become a toxic environment to play in.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It always seems the same with West Ham fans and booing their own players , I’m not sure if it’s down to false expectations of the team or it’s just habit these days, it’s the same when Everton fans start to demand the manager is gone despite being at where you expect the club to be. 

It’s no surprise that West Ham have done better since no supporters where allowed into the stadium. What do West Ham expect , is it this “mythical West Ham way to play” that they did once back in the 60’s, the same as what some Spurs go on about. I can understand if West Ham were at the bottom and struggling but they are doing well - mid table pack , where you would expect them surely
		
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It was fed by the owners saying champions League in 5 years or whatever the claim was 

That didn't help 

Another good goal but we don't deserve it


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

Not the best game but as big Sam would say respect the point 

Scored 2 in second half once we hooked noble .. he really can't be a starter anymore 

Their second goal I dunno should it have stood? We had one chalked off for that before . Struck him on the hand under the shirt line and tbh if it hadn't he wouldn't have controlled it but these things happen 

Got ourselfs back into it twice


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## Fade and Die (Dec 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			No of course not, and if you were underperforming (this season) I believe it has a place.

But you are performing as expected. So maybe after one real poor half the best option would be to encourage. That being said, thats not the West Ham way. As has been seen many a time, your ground can become a toxic environment to play in.
		
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This season is completely artificial, top level football must have all the pressure of a full stadium. But I do recognise what you say about a toxic environment, as pauljames alludes to it is because of the anger felt towards the owners, taking us from Upton Park with a promise of bigger and better things when the reality is that I am watching the same relegation battles just from 50 rows further back!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			This season is completely artificial, top level football must have all the pressure of a full stadium. But I do recognise what you say about a toxic environment, as pauljames alludes to it is because of the anger felt towards the owners, taking us from Upton Park with a promise of bigger and better things when the reality is that I am watching the same relegation battles just from 50 rows further back!
		
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Whilst the anger is just it has blinded a lot of fans towards the team

Too focused on protesting and anti board

Not great for the players


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## Fade and Die (Dec 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not the best game but as big Sam would say respect the point

Scored 2 in second half once we hooked noble .. he really can't be a starter anymore

Their second goal I dunno should it have stood? We had one chalked off for that before . Struck him on the hand under the shirt line and tbh if it hadn't he wouldn't have controlled it but these things happen

Got ourselfs back into it twice
		
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Moyes is responsible for team selection, formation and tactics. He started the match with Fornals, Benrahma, Lanzini, Yarmolenko and Snodgrass on the bench and fielded a side with 8 defensive outfield players. As I said he would rightfully have the crowd on his back for that lineup.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Moyes is responsible for team selection, formation and tactics. He started the match with Fornals, Benrahma, Lanzini, Yarmolenko and Snodgrass on the bench and fielded a side with 8 defensive outfield players. As I said he would rightfully have the crowd on his back for that lineup.
		
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We would have lost the game with fans on their back.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 27, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			We would have lost the game with fans on their back.
		
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I disagree, once the changes were made West Ham were in the ascendancy, I think with a crowd they would have won.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I disagree, once the changes were made West Ham were in the ascendancy, I think with a crowd they would have won.
		
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We would have been too far down by then 

Soon as Brighton got the shots away they would be on the back. The goal would have come sooner 

2-0 by half time and chasing the game more 

Recent seasons our fans have cost us more games than they have won. Negative crowds cost.

Where as last season at Upton park that got us many points because they bought into what they were promised. Postive fans .

We haven't had postive fans for a while .. soon as things got hard under mp they turned back to negative

Hence why project restart has been our best form for ages.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2020)

Happy that West Ham got that second goal. Keeps Brighton within touching distance.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2020)

It was always feeling like a classic Allardyce sucker punch after the first half hour - it’s what we deserve from the second half , been really poor and let them back into it.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 27, 2020)

Good to see Klopp using all his subs today.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 27, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was always feeling like a classic Allardyce sucker punch after the first half hour - it’s what we deserve from the second half , been really poor and let them back into it.
		
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Absolutely. Furious. Was always coming. So clear to see. Why on earth we persisted with high crosses and dinked balls over the top?! Mane's goal came from a fizzed ball in. It was tempo WBA couldn't cope with, yet we got slower and slower.

Rubbish.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Absolutely. Furious. Was always coming. So clear to see. Why on earth we persisted with high crosses and dinked balls over the top?! Mane's goal came from a fizzed ball in. It was tempo WBA couldn't cope with, yet we got slower and slower.

Rubbish.
		
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Firmino is not a proper CF and in a game like this that’s what you need.
He’s to deep and never on the shoulder of the CB.
So crossing the balls a waste of time. what’s the point of putting a big man on at 89mins???
Salha waste of a shirt again imo.
Just no urgency from us 
Apart from the header can’t remember their keeper saving anything.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Firmino is not a proper CF and in a game like this* that’s what you need.*
He’s to deep and never on the shoulder of the CB.
So crossing the balls a waste of time. what’s the point of putting a big man on at 89mins???
Salha waste of a shirt again imo.
Just no urgency from us
Apart from the header can’t remember their keeper saving anything.
		
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Disagree with the bold. Big back 4, wingers sat back - today, as with palace last week, tempo and intricate football is the way to beat them for me. lots of 1-2s etc. and that's where Bobby shines. The difference in tempo between today and palace is disgusting, considering the time off since palace. Embarrassing.

First half we were close to being there. 2nd half we were so slow and played right into their hands. Bringing Divock on? Waste of time. But because we kept putting crosses the box.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Disagree with the bold. Big back 4, wingers sat back - today, as with palace last week, tempo and intricate football is the way to beat them for me. lots of 1-2s etc. and that's where Bobby shines. The difference in tempo between today and palace is disgusting, considering the time off since palace. Embarrassing.

First half we were close to being there. 2nd half we were so slow and played right into their hands. Bringing Divock on? Waste of time. But because we kept putting crosses the box.
		
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No plan B when the intricate and quick isn’t happening like today.
Bobby is brilliant at dropping deep and linking up play in a normal game.
But when there’s a bus parked there is no need
But the space wasn’t there today between their midfield and defence.
If your going to cross the ball when there is nobody there then that’s just poor tactics.
That happened today.
Only for Alison we could have lost a game we had 80% of the ball.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2020)

wonder if big Sam will get sacked now he has had a 1-1 draw like the guy before him 😳


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2020)

How worrying is it at Liverpool? Draws against two sides in the relegation zone and another injury today. There doesn't seem to be any spark on a regular basis at the moment and the usual pass and move isn't working around the box and they have never really been a side to whack it in the box since the days of Toshack flying in with his head.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2020)

Harry Kane with a lovely dive there.


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Harry Kane with a lovely dive there.
		
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5.8 from the Arsenal judge


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## Rlburnside (Dec 27, 2020)

It’s frustrating watching Spurs at the moment got what we deserved playing like that.


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## Jensen (Dec 27, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Harry Kane with a lovely dive there.
		
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Embarrassing


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2020)

Looking forward to hear what Mourinho has to say.
I wonder who he'll throw under the bus this time.


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## Jensen (Dec 27, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			It’s frustrating watching Spurs at the moment got what we deserved playing like that. 

Click to expand...

Trying to hold out for 3 points after going ahead after 57 seconds....makes no sense, what a joke.
Wolves deserved a point at the very least, in fact could have got all 3.
When the fans come back I can see quite rightly Mourinho getting grief. It’s like watching paint dry at times.
Mourinho parks that bus so much it’s like it’s never left the depot


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## Dando (Dec 27, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Harry Kane with a lovely dive there.
		
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But he “felt contact” so it’s ok 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

Dando said:



			But he “felt contact” so it’s ok 🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Been quite a few dives lately but no yellow cards.
Have refs been told not to book them??


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## Lilyhawk (Dec 27, 2020)

Mourinho is an outdated pathetic dinosaur.


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Been quite a few dives lately but no yellow cards.
Have refs been told not to book them??
		
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He booked Fabio Silva for one (when kicked on the bottom of the foot albeit lightly), different reaction for Kane at the other end


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			How worrying is it at Liverpool? Draws against two sides in the relegation zone and another injury today. There doesn't seem to be any spark on a regular basis at the moment and the usual pass and move isn't working around the box and they have never really been a side to whack it in the box since the days of Toshack flying in with his head.
		
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We’re not playing with any real spark week in week out but they are still top of the league!
Most teams are erratic atm great one week crap the next.
Very strange atm.


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## Lilyhawk (Dec 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			He booked Fabio Silva for one (when kicked on the bottom of the foot albeit lightly), different reaction for Kane at the other end
		
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No he didn’t. But both should’ve been booked.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			He booked Fabio Silva for one (when kicked on the bottom of the foot albeit lightly), different reaction for Kane at the other end
		
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He’s English so that’s ok.


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2020)

Lilyhawk said:



			No he didn’t. But both should’ve been booked.
		
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thought he showed the card for that, did he not?


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## Lilyhawk (Dec 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			thought he showed the card for that, did he not?
		
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To one of his team mates. Guess for protesting. 

But yeah, Silva and Kane should’ve been booked for diving. If I had a say in the football world, diving would be eradicated within half a season.


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2020)

Lilyhawk said:



			To one of his team mates. Guess for protesting.

But yeah, Silva and Kane should’ve been booked for diving. If I had a say in the football world, diving would be eradicated within half a season. 

Click to expand...


ah my mistake, saw the card flashed and put 2 and 2 together and got 5

not sure it would take me half a season lol, games would end up 5 a side or cancelled though haha


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## Lilyhawk (Dec 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			ah my mistake, saw the card flashed and put 2 and 2 together and got 5

not sure it would take me half a season lol, games would end up 5 a side or cancelled though haha
		
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I’d thoroughly enjoy seeing player after player being sent off for diving.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 27, 2020)

My first game back at Anfield since last season, but surely there should be a premiership rule that you can't have Allardyce and Kevin Friend together.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			My first game back at Anfield since last season, but surely there should be a premiership rule that you can't have Allardyce and Kevin Friend together.
		
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Looked like a foul on Fab for their goal but they didn’t show it again and no VAR.
Was the game  as bad as it looked on the tv.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

Lilyhawk said:



			I’d thoroughly enjoy seeing player after player being sent off for diving.
		
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Yes me to.
The diving panel was one thing that actually worked so mystery why they got rid of it.
They should bring it back imo as it’s getting worse.


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## 4LEX (Dec 27, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			How worrying is it at Liverpool? Draws against two sides in the relegation zone and another injury today. There doesn't seem to be any spark on a regular basis at the moment and the usual pass and move isn't working around the box and they have never really been a side to whack it in the box since the days of Toshack flying in with his head.
		
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Not a worry at all.

Crippled by injuries and well clear at the top despite being in second gear all season. Just a question of how many points they'll win it by. And I think you'll find they have scored more headed goals than anyone this season! You don't need Crouch when you've got the two best crossers in the league at full back. Granted if they had a proper target man as Plan B it would no doubt be more effective but that isn't the Klopp way.

The rest are bluffers, Liverpool will not lose a seconds sleep over Everton, Leicester or Utd.

The sheer amount of games has obviously meant no side is at 100% over Christmas. But winning their CL group and clear top at Christmas is job done, even ignoring the bad luck with injuries.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Looked like a foul on Fab for their goal but they didn’t show it again and no VAR.
Was the game  as bad as it looked on the tv.
		
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Yes it was. I'm not blaming him for the result but that ref always oversees the crappiest, biggest time-wasting, frustrating game at Anfield every year. I'm sure he has the same record at a few other grounds up and down the country, also.


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Not a worry at all.

Crippled by injuries and *well clear at the top* despite being in second gear all season. Just a question of how many points they'll win it by. And I think you'll find they have scored more headed goals than anyone this season! You don't need Crouch when you've got the two best crossers in the league at full back. Granted if they had a proper target man as Plan B it would no doubt be more effective but that isn't the Klopp way.

The rest are bluffers, Liverpool will not lose a seconds sleep over Everton, Leicester or Utd.

The sheer amount of games has obviously meant no side is at 100% over Christmas. But winning their CL group and clear top at Christmas is job done, even ignoring the bad luck with injuries.
		
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Well clear at the top .......................... are you sure?


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## 4LEX (Dec 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			Well clear at the top .......................... are you sure?
		
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Yeah I am. City are the only side who have the quality/manager and they're way off. Everton won't finish within 15 points of Liverpool and Leicester have no squad depth. Liverpool have missed key players all season and still won their CL group and sit top. I think by the time the CL restarts they'll be 10-12 clear and it'll be all over. The Ox getting match fitness, Thiago close and Jota will be a huge boost in a few months. The foot will go down in January.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes it was. I'm not blaming him for the result but that ref always oversees the crappiest, biggest time-wasting, frustrating game at Anfield every year. I'm sure he has the same record at a few other grounds up and down the country, also.
		
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Could have been worse the ref in the Burnley Leeds game had a mare.
Two shocking decisions , clear and obvious covers it very well.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Not a worry at all.

*Crippled by injuries *and well clear at the top despite being in second gear all season. Just a question of how many points they'll win it by. And I think you'll find they have scored more headed goals than anyone this season! You don't need Crouch when you've got the two best crossers in the league at full back. Granted if they had a proper target man as Plan B it would no doubt be more effective but that isn't the Klopp way.

The rest are bluffers, Liverpool will not lose a seconds sleep over Everton, Leicester or Utd.

The sheer amount of games has obviously meant no side is at 100% over Christmas. But winning their CL group and clear top at Christmas is job done, even ignoring the bad luck with injuries.
		
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Really? Crippled by injuries? According to Anfield Online (https://www.anfield-online.co.uk/squad/lfc-injuries.html) you've only got Jota, Gomes, Van Dijk and Alcantra out injured at the minute - plus probably Matip after the game today. That's five players in total. 

Everton have got 6 - Gbamin, Allen, Delph, Digne, Rodriguez and Richarlison, and most of the other clubs up near the top of the table have 3 or 4 out injured.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Firmino is not a proper CF and in a game like this that’s what you need.
He’s to deep and never on the shoulder of the CB.
So crossing the balls a waste of time. what’s the point of putting a big man on at 89mins???
Salha waste of a shirt again imo.
Just no urgency from us
Apart from the header can’t remember their keeper saving anything.
		
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Are you seriously blaming Firmino?

Salah waste of a shirt?   He's statistically and performances wise our best player over 3 seasons, "supporters" like you don't deserve to watch him week in week out.

Hairball nailed it. Playing high balls into their box played into their hands.

WBA benefited from  our mistakes. Piss poor.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Really? Crippled by injuries? According to Anfield Online (https://www.anfield-online.co.uk/squad/lfc-injuries.html) you've only got Jota, Gomes, Van Dijk and Alcantra out injured at the minute - plus probably Matip after the game today. That's five players in total.

Everton have got 6 - Gbamin, Allen, Delph, Digne, Rodriguez and Richarlison, and most of the other clubs up near the top of the table have 3 or 4 out injured.
		
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Liverpool have been crippled by injuries over the last 2 months. Losing a few main  players over  a within a few weeks of each other.

The lads who have came in have done well but we couldn't use those same players for long periods and sustain a title challenge.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Are you seriously blaming Firmino?

Salah waste of a shirt?   He's statistically and performances wise our best player over 3 seasons, "supporters" like you don't deserve to watch him week in week out.

Hairball nailed it. Playing high balls into their box played into their hands.

WBA benefited from  our mistakes. Piss poor.
		
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Not blaming him no but his style dosnt suit today’s game.
He’s not a CF so why all the crosses when there is nobody there.
89 mins to make a sub??? 

I would sell Salha tomorrow .
He scores goals but so would any decent striker in that team as Jota has proved.
Statistics are not to be relied upon imo.
He couldn’t tackle a wet paper bag.
Bugs me when he starts laughing after missing another easy chance.
We don’t agree that’s fine but you don’t decide who deserves to watch!!


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## Orikoru (Dec 27, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Trying to hold out for 3 points after going ahead after 57 seconds....makes no sense, what a joke.
Wolves deserved a point at the very least, in fact could have got all 3.
When the fans come back I can see quite rightly Mourinho getting grief. It’s like watching paint dry at times.
Mourinho parks that bus so much it’s like it’s never left the depot
		
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It made sense against the likes of Man City, it doesn't make sense playing that way against everyone. In Jose's previous teams he's had world class defenders like Terry, Ramos etc. We don't have a good enough defence to shut teams out for 85 minutes. We need a two-goal cushion. Even at Stoke mid-week we conceded one, but we actually went and got that two goal cushion to win the game. That's what we need to do against Wolves, Palace, whoever it is week to week. If we were doing to hold onto two-goal lead with 30-40 minutes left I think we'd be doing fine. One goal lead for 85 minutes, there's just no way we're not going to slip up once in that time.


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## Orikoru (Dec 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not blaming him no but his style dosnt suit today’s game.
He’s not a CF so why all the crosses when there is nobody there.
89 mins to make a sub???

I would sell Salha tomorrow .
He scores goals but so would any decent striker in that team as Jota has proved.
Statistics are not to be relied upon imo.
He couldn’t tackle a wet paper bag.
Bugs me when he starts laughing after missing another easy chance.
We don’t agree that’s fine but you don’t decide who deserves to watch!!
		
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Normally I don't like being this guy but how are you still spelling Salah wrong after all this time??


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Normally I don't like being this guy but how are you still spelling Salah wrong after all this time?? 

Click to expand...

Why do it then?


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## Orikoru (Dec 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Why do it then?
		
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It's just ridiculous, it's been like three years. My curiosity got the better of me.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Normally I don't like being this guy but how are you still spelling Salah wrong after all this time?? 

Click to expand...

As a Spurs fan you should have your own problems to worry about.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not blaming him no but his style dosnt suit today’s game.
He’s not a CF so why all the crosses when there is nobody there.
89 mins to make a sub???

_I would sell Salha tomorrow ._
He scores goals but so would any decent striker in that team as Jota has proved.
Statistics are not to be relied upon imo.
He couldn’t tackle a wet paper bag.
Bugs me when he starts laughing after missing another easy chance.
We don’t agree that’s fine but *you don’t decide who deserves to watch!*!
		
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Correct I don't but those who sell cup final tickets at 10x their value would be banned for life if i did.

You'd be happy to sell to our best player by Country mile tomorrow?? Madness.

I bet you'd be the 1st one to moan if  we did sell Salah and replaced him with Origi etc 

Supporters like don't deserve to watch what we're seeing right.now. 

He's our leading goalscorer, most assists and you want to sell him?? GTF.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It's just ridiculous, it's been like three years. My curiosity got the better of me. 

Click to expand...

I’m lazy and just can’t be arsed with the auto correct.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I’m lazy and just can’t be arsed with the auto correct.
		
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Going by your history you're more than lazy clubchamp.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Correct I don't but those who sell cup final tickets at 10x their value would be banned for life if i did.

You'd be happy to sell to our best player by Country mile tomorrow?? Madness.

I bet you'd be the 1st one to moan if  we did sell Salah and replaced him with Origi etc

Supporters like don't deserve to watch what we're seeing right.now.

He's our leading goalscorer, most assists and you want to sell him?? GTF.
		
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I agree there.
have said before I just don’t like him as a player it’s just my opinion.
Best player not for me Mane puts more effort in every game.
Think that’s the problem we need more options up front Origis not good enough.
But we don’t change when it’s obviously not working 
We need a one chance one goal striker. We havnt got one.
PL , European, world champs we should be able to get anyone we want.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Going by your history you're more than lazy clubchamp.
		
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Yes I agree.
But I thought all the pedant spelling police had been warned off
But you have suprized me!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree there.
have said before I just don’t like him as a player it’s just my opinion.
Best player not for me Mane puts more effort in every game.
Think that’s the problem we need more options up front Origis not good enough.
But we don’t change when it’s obviously not working
We need a one chance one goal striker. We havnt got one.
PL , European, world champs we should be able to get anyone we want.
		
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Mane better than salah?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I see you never mentioned the 2 clear chances Mane missed tonight though salah was a waste of a shirt🤣🤣

You're entitled to your opinion but you're talking absolute shit.

Mane is brilliant, but he's not on salah's level.

Tell me whose a one chance one goal striker out there........ in fact don't bother because they don't exist.

Stick to touting cup final tickets because you haven't got a clue on football.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
*But I thought all the pedant spelling police had been warned off*
But you have *suprized* me!
		
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It's "surprised". 



Sorry couldn't resist!!!!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
But I thought all the pedant spelling police had been warned off
But you have suprized me!
		
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How have I surprised you?


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Mane better than salah?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I see you never mentioned the 2 clear chances Mane missed tonight though salah was a waste of a shirt🤣🤣

You're entitled to your opinion but you're talking absolute shit.

Mane is brilliant, but he's not on salah's level.

Tell me whose a one chance one goal striker out there........ in fact don't bother because they don't exist.

Stick to touting cup final tickets because you haven't got a clue on football.
		
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I would have Mane before anyone on the team sheet.
I have never sold a cup final ticket in my life.
The season ticket I have used for the last few years wasn’t mine as you well know so your just slinging mud.
That’s dissapointing.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			How have I surprised you?
		
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It’s about football not spelling !


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would have Mane before anyone on the team sheet.
I have never sold a cup final ticket in my life.
The season ticket I have used for the last few years wasn’t mine as you well know so your just slinging mud.
That’s dissapointing.
		
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Would you yeah?  Glad you're not the manager.

Didn't you try to  justify on here you/ your son selling a cup final ticket last season? Or have I made it up? Happy to apologise/retract statement I you prove me wrong.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s about football not spelling !
		
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I never pulled you for your spelling!!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Would you yeah?  Glad you're not the manager.

Didn't you try to  justify on here you/ your son selling a cup final ticket last season? Or have I made it up? Happy to apologise/retract statement I you prove me wrong.
		
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Obviously.

My son sold his but at 32 yrs of age I am not responsible for his decisions anymore.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I never pulled you for your spelling!!
		
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The post was about auto correct??


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Obviously.

My son sold his but at 32 yrs of age I am not responsible for his decisions anymore.
		
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So I wasn't wrong? Yoh justifying it?

Tell you what, you crack on moaning about Salah but be very careful what you wish for.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Mane better than salah?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Stick to touting cup final tickets because you haven't got a clue on football.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			So I wasn't wrong? Yoh justifying it?

Tell you what, you crack on moaning about Salah but be very careful what you wish for.
		
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wasn’t my ticket or decision to make but calling someone a tout is a bit out of order. Imo of course.!


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpool don’t win a game & the children start arguing AGAIN 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️😂😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree there.
have said before I just don’t like him as a player it’s just my opinion.
Best player not for me Mane puts more effort in every game.
Think that’s the problem we need more options up front Origis not good enough.
But we don’t change when it’s obviously not working
We need a one chance one goal striker. We havnt got one.
PL , European, world champs we should be able to get anyone we want.
		
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I still find it amazing that 3 years down the line you fail to understand how Klopp plays the game , he doesn’t want a “one chance one goal” striker - we had one in Sturridge and he left because he doesn’t fit in with the style of play the manager wants - the same style that has the team one of the best in Europe and prob the Prem right now , unless of course you know someone that they can bring in ? 

And I noticed you are back to the Salah and Firmino nonsense again - Salah is one of the best players in the World at the moment and you want him sold ?! It’s laughable how even some of his own fans underrate him , and Bobby is key to it all , he is link that allows that front three to be the best in world football 

Yesterday was a poor game in terms of execution in the second half , the game should have been finished off early - it was one of those games. We have had multiple injuries week in week out , missing some keys players throughout the season and even still now we are missing some -  but still sat top of the table.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

In other football news I see that 

Global Soccer (who ? ) have announced their annual awards plus a few others 

Ronaldo got his 6 in a row player of the year award - but gave it to Lewondonski 

The had an “Agent of the Year” - which went to Mendes for the 10 time 

They also did a Player , Manager , Defender etc of the Century ( im sure there are 79 years left )

Winners - Ronaldo , Pep etc 

It all took place in a glitzy expensive ceremony in that football Mecca - Dubai 

Apparently all very prestigious 

Well that is until looking into Global Soccer - they have interesting majority owners - 

CR7 Investments being the main one - Ronaldo and Mendes company 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2020)

😂😂 Well done Big Sam, Get’s a point against the League Leaders, who were only missing 1 player and had had 8 days rest after klippetty moaning about fixture congestion.

Fans go in to meltdown. 😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Jensen (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I still find it amazing that 3 years down the line you fail to understand how Klopp plays the game , *he* doesn’t want a “one chance one goal” striker - we had one in Sturridge and he left because he doesn’t fit in with the style of play the manager wants doesn’t-
		
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😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣 you really post some crap at times!!!
Even Stu quite rightly says a “one chance one goal” striker doesn’t exist 🤣🤣. If it did he would be priceless and EVERY manager would want one.
🤣🤣 Sturridge was certainly not that player 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. He spent more time on the treatment table than Darren “sick note” Anderton


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In other football news I see that

Global Soccer (who ? ) have announced their annual awards plus a few others

Ronaldo got his 6 in a row player of the year award - but gave it to Lewondonski

The had an “Agent of the Year” - which went to Mendes for the 10 time

They also did a Player , Manager , Defender etc of the Century ( im sure there are 79 years left )

Winners - Ronaldo , Pep etc

It all took place in a glitzy expensive ceremony in that football Mecca - Dubai

Apparently all very prestigious

Well that is until looking into Global Soccer - they have interesting majority owners -

CR7 Investments being the main one - Ronaldo and Mendes company 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to look into Global soccer & share your findings with us,that’s hilarious 😬😳


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Thanks for taking the time to look into Global soccer & share your findings with us,that’s hilarious 😬😳
		
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Don't see what relevance it has to the premier League 20/21 season 🤷


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## Bazzatron (Dec 28, 2020)

I know I shouldn't mention it with Neto's dive last week but Kane should seriously be a consideration for the Olympics next year. Embarrassing. Martin Tyler almost had an opinion about it last night but stopped himself remembering who he was talking about.


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## Bazzatron (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In other football news I see that

Global Soccer (who ? ) have announced their annual awards plus a few others

Ronaldo got his 6 in a row player of the year award - but gave it to Lewondonski

The had an “Agent of the Year” - which went to Mendes for the 10 time

They also did a Player , Manager , Defender etc of the Century ( im sure there are 79 years left )

Winners - Ronaldo , Pep etc

It all took place in a glitzy expensive ceremony in that football Mecca - Dubai

Apparently all very prestigious

Well that is until looking into Global Soccer - they have interesting majority owners -

CR7 Investments being the main one - Ronaldo and Mendes company 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Mendes would definitely get my vote 👍🏾


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I still find it amazing that 3 years down the line you fail to understand how Klopp plays the game , he doesn’t want a “one chance one goal” striker - we had one in Sturridge and he left because he doesn’t fit in with the style of play the manager wants - the same style that has the team one of the best in Europe and prob the Prem right now , unless of course you know someone that they can bring in ?

And I noticed you are back to the Salah and Firmino nonsense again - Salah is one of the best players in the World at the moment and you want him sold ?! It’s laughable how even some of his own fans underrate him , and Bobby is key to it all , he is link that allows that front three to be the best in world football

Yesterday was a poor game in terms of execution in the second half , the game should have been finished off early - it was one of those games. We have had multiple injuries week in week out , missing some keys players throughout the season and even still now we are missing some -  but still sat top of the table.
		
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Yes that’s your opinion that your entitled to.
But its different from mine that’s fine.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			😂😂 Well done Big Sam, Get’s a point against the League Leaders, who were only missing 1 player and had had 8 days rest after klippetty moaning about fixture congestion.

Fans go in to meltdown. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Here he is, I thought you'd be straight on to call out Gomes' diving efforts from Saturday, like you've often called others out to do, but no your 1st post is about Liverpool 🤣🤣🤣


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Here he is, I thought you'd be straight on to call out Gomes' diving efforts from Saturday, like you've often called others out to do, but no your 1st post is about Liverpool 🤣🤣🤣
		
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Really? A couple of dives from both sides in that match, yet you only called out the Everton one. Rent free.

Please feel free to show were I’ve called out anyone for diving, as I’m pretty sure I haven’t as I’ve always said we all have them and it’s been going on since Franny Lee’s days.

Happy for you to also show me were you’ve called out Salah or Mane while you’re at it.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 28, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't see what relevance it has to the premier League 20/21 season 🤷
		
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I think we can all accept this thread strays away from the premier league at times. England matches, league and FA cup etc


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Mendes would definitely get my vote 👍🏾
		
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anyone but Joorabchian for me


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

Jensen said:



			😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣 you really post some crap at times!!!
Even Stu quite rightly says a “one chance one goal” striker doesn’t exist 🤣🤣. If it did he would be priceless and EVERY manager would want one.
🤣🤣 Sturridge was certainly not that player 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. He spent more time on the treatment table than Darren “sick note” Anderton
		
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Wow - feeling a bit delicate this morning ? 

Do you really take the phrase “one chance one goal” that literally 🤦‍♂️🙄

If you actually ever read any of club champs posts you would know that he is talking about a pure out and out and striker that is there just to put the ball in the net and hanging around the box not dropping deep etc a plan B - which is exactly the type of striker of Sturridge was ( what his injuries have to do with the way he played i have no idea ) - and it’s not the type of player that Klopp wants to work within the system.

Hope your delicate head gets better during the day or you manage to find your toys 🧸🙄


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't see what relevance it has to the premier League 20/21 season 🤷
		
Click to expand...

Blimey they are out today 🙄

Do you seriously not understand that the thread is pretty much about all football as it is every year - 🙄


Bazzatron said:



			Mendes would definitely get my vote 👍🏾
		
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I was surprised a Wolves player didn’t get a vote 😁👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			I know I shouldn't mention it with Neto's dive last week but Kane should seriously be a consideration for the Olympics next year. Embarrassing. Martin Tyler almost had an opinion about it last night but stopped himself remembering who he was talking about.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1343315111705006081
it’s embarrassing but will get away with it because he is English, Alan Smith “only choice he has” ?! 

That’s Mane, Salah , any other foreign player and it would be all over the papers etc etc with the commentators going at them - the bias is embarrassing


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## Jensen (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - feeling a bit delicate this morning ?

Do you really take the phrase “one chance one goal” that literally 🤦‍♂️🙄

If you actually ever read any of club champs posts you would know that he is talking about a pure out and out and striker that is there just to put the ball in the net and hanging around the box not dropping deep etc a plan B - which is exactly the type of striker of Sturridge was ( what his injuries have to do with the way he played i have no idea ) - and it’s not the type of player that Klopp wants to work within the system.

Hope your delicate head gets better during the day or you manage to find your toys 🧸🙄
		
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😆 my head is perfectly fine, thanks for asking. As for throwing the toys, they’re stacked nicely in the pram 🤣🤣

I can’t be bothered to debate further with you as “Dog with a bone” springs to mind 👍


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1343315111705006081
it’s embarrassing but will get away with it because he is English, Alan Smith “only choice he has” ?!

That’s Mane, Salah , any other foreign player and it would be all over the papers etc etc with the commentators going at them - the bias is embarrassing
		
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And if that’s Mane or Salah you’re on here arguing the toss defending them.

Another player Dives & you play the Poor us card 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Proper top red you lad 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Leicester and Palace both made several changes, Leicester especially seem to be resting a lot of their side after a short turn around. Be interesting to see if other mgrs follow suit


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Leicester and Palace both made several changes, Leicester especially seem to be resting a lot of their side after a short turn around. Be interesting to see if other mgrs follow suit
		
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I transferred Vardy into my dream team this morning,luckily heard he might be rested so took him back out 😊


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey they are out today 🙄

Do you seriously not understand that the thread is pretty much about all football as it is every year - 🙄


I was surprised a Wolves player didn’t get a vote 😁👍
		
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Maybe when you create them you should title them correctly then....

Just saying


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



*Really? A couple of dives from both sides in that match, yet you only called out the Everton one*. Rent free.

Please feel free to show were I’ve called out anyone for diving, as I’m pretty sure I haven’t as I’ve always said we all have them and it’s been going on since Franny Lee’s days.

Happy for you to also show me were you’ve called out Salah or Mane while you’re at it.

Click to expand...

See post #4125 😉

It was only a bit of fun to be fair Paul, though when I'm struggling to sleep I will find evidence as requested😃

Will you be wanting a City win tonight?🤭


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Everton City cancelled due to a covid outbreak at City it seems


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2020)

That’s one way to circumvent the Xmas schedule.

Clever Pep......


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			That’s one way to circumvent the Xmas schedule.

Clever Pep......
		
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Man knows how to ruin my fantasy hopes lol


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Man knows how to ruin my fantasy hopes lol
		
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Qualifying week for the cup too!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Everton City cancelled due to a covid outbreak at City it seems
		
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Jim Rosenthal did a build up that made it sound like someone had died. Blimey, he over egged that.

@Tashyboy , have your lads been partying again?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Maybe when you create them you should title them correctly then....

Just saying
		
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Read through the thread and count how many Non Prem posts there have been and then come back 🙄



fundy said:



			Everton City cancelled due to a covid outbreak at City it seems
		
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How does it work with cancellations this close ? Seen in some leagues the games are forfeited but this is prob only the second game that’s been postponed

Wonder if the players were at that party 😁


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Qualifying week for the cup too!
		
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main focus is on the draft version, no cap on how many from any team and have 4 city players in currently, could be worse had 5 until Jesus got the boot last week


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Read through the thread and count how many Non Prem posts there have been and then come back 🙄



How does it work with cancellations this close ? Seen in some leagues the games are forfeited but this is prob only the second game that’s been postponed

Wonder if the players were at that party 😁
		
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will be rescheduled at some point no doubt (and then Pep will complain about the schedule again)

Liverpool fans dont seem to be very happy on twitter lol


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Read through the thread and count how many Non Prem posts there have been and then come back 🙄



How does it work with cancellations this close ? Seen in some leagues the games are forfeited but this is prob only the second game that’s been postponed

Wonder if the players were at that party 😁
		
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Considering you are the most pedantic person on the forum you think you would label the thread correctly ...

Just saying.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			See post #4125 😉

It was only a bit of fun to be fair Paul, though when I'm struggling to sleep I will find evidence as requested😃

Will you be wanting a City win tonight?🤭
		
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Went for an Everton win me.

Your posts are not funny when you get a ”like” from your bezzer.😬


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			will be rescheduled at some point no doubt (and then Pep will complain about the schedule again)

Liverpool fans dont seem to be very happy on twitter lol
		
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Liverpool fans on Twitter rarely happy 😃 - should have seen the reaction when we signed Jota and Werner went to Chelsea. It’s nearly as bad as the reaction that is happening when Gini is being offered a new contract 

I’m not sure how it will favour City as they are no doubt going to have to play it later during a cup week etc but will be interesting to see what they do about the FA Cup tie - could City have played youth players ? Will be interesting to see how affected the squad is


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpool fans on Twitter rarely happy 😃 - should have seen the reaction when we signed Jota and Werner went to Chelsea. It’s nearly as bad as the reaction that is happening when Gini is being offered a new contract

I’m not sure how it will favour City as they are no doubt going to have to play it later during a cup week etc but will be interesting to see what they do about the FA Cup tie - could City have played youth players ? Will be interesting to see how affected the squad is
		
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seems theyve had multiple test positive and are worried that its wider spread than that, training ground being closed down and everyone retested etc, new years day game against chelsea must be off too youd think


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Jim Rosenthal did a build up that made it sound like someone had died. Blimey, he over egged that.

@Tashyboy , have your lads been partying again?
		
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we already had Walker out, Jesus had a day off over Christmas as well. 🤔😳😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			seems theyve had multiple test positive and are worried that its wider spread than that, training ground being closed down and everyone retested etc, new years day game against chelsea must be off too youd think
		
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They also have a EFL Cup game next week I think ? That’s 3 games they have to reschedule- could end up play 4 games in 7 games at some stage. They should have the squad to cope with it

Looks like Everton fans aren’t happy - demanding the points or that City play with their youth team , good to see the priorities are spot on


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## BiMGuy (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Liverpool fans dont seem to be very happy
		
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Fixed that last sentence for you.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Fixed that last sentence for you.
		
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You forgot to put “unless they’re whinging” at the end 🤣🤣😂


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## BiMGuy (Dec 28, 2020)

Didn't think it was possible to want two team to lose more than Liverpool v WBA last night. But Chelsea v Villa has managed it.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They also have a EFL Cup game next week I think ? That’s 3 games they have to reschedule- could end up play 4 games in 7 games at some stage. They should have the squad to cope with it

*Looks like Everton fans aren’t happy - demanding the points or that City play with their youth team , good to see the priorities are spot on*

Click to expand...

Funny how the null and voiders have turned into just play at any costs'🤭🤭


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Funny how the null and voiders have turned into just play at any costs'🤭🤭
		
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All about us again Stu?
Do you not find it weird he mocks his own supporters on twitter, but uses the Everton ones on the there as a basis for all of ours?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			All about us again Stu?
Do you not find it weird he mocks his own supporters on twitter, but uses the Everton ones on the there as a basis for all of ours?
		
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Am I not allowed to talk about other clubs? 

When somebody posts xxxx fans arent happy we all know its not every xxxx fan of said club. It's the general feeling at that time on whichever social media platform. 

LP is a weird character anyway.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



*Am I not allowed to talk about other clubs?*

When somebody posts xxxx fans arent happy we all know its not every xxxx fan of said club. It's the general feeling at that time on whichever social media platform.

LP is a weird character anyway.
		
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Talk about who you like, I‘m not the one asking for fan’s opinions on their own team.😬😘

I only follow Everton feeds and I get the impression the majority are happy with it being postponed, had less than 48hrs since the last match and a few players still missing.

The only fans I feel sorry for are the 2,000 that were due to be in attendance. They must be gutted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Funny how the null and voiders have turned into just play at any costs'🤭🤭
		
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It is amusing - apparently it’s changing the rules for the big clubs and Everton not having a say in it - not sure what it is they expect the club to say , or that it’s not the first game to be postponed because of Covid with the Villa vs Newcastle game called off , precedent was set then


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It is amusing - apparently it’s changing the rules for the big clubs and Everton not having a say in it - not sure what it is they expect the club to say , or that it’s not the first game to be postponed because of Covid with the Villa vs Newcastle game called off , precedent was set then
		
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Leyton Orient might have a different view on it


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Leyton Orient might have a different view on it
		
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Different governing bodies with different rules ? One the EFL and one the Prem ? Or was it because it was a cup 

Even though the Prem did say there would be games conceeded but then allowed Newcastle to have the game postponed


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Different governing bodies with different rules ? One the EFL and one the Prem ? Or was it because it was a cup

Even though the Prem did say there would be games conceeded but then allowed Newcastle to have the game postponed
		
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or it was big club v little club, who knows


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Leyton Orient might have a different view on it
		
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He’s also got the facts wrong, Newcastle cancelled 2 days before the game, City spoke to the PL only, never contacted Everton, and had the game postponed with 4hrs notice, so nothing like the Newcastle situation.

That’s why some fans are unhappy, 2,000 have also had to have the covid test to attend at their own expense etc.

edit:
Official Club Statement:

Everton Football Club regret the postponement of tonight’s match against Manchester City - not only for the 2,000 fans who would have been attending, but for supporters on Merseyside and across the world.

Our players were prepared for the game, as were both the team staff and everyone at Goodison. Matchday is the most important date in our calendar. And this was a big one.

Whilst Everton will always have public safety uppermost, we will be requesting full disclosure of all the information that Manchester City provided to the Premier League so the Club can be clear on why this decision was taken.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			or it was big club v little club, who knows 

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Was the other club a Prem club ? Was that before they had compulsory testing for League 1 and 2 ? 


pauldj42 said:



			He’s also got the facts wrong, Newcastle cancelled 2 days before the game, City spoke to the PL only, never contacted Everton, and had the game postponed with 4hrs notice, so nothing like the Newcastle situation.

That’s why some fans are unhappy, 2,000 have also had to have the covid test to attend at their own expense etc.
		
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Why don’t you respond directly to me ? 

What “fact” did I get wrong - Newcastle Villa was postponed due to Covid cases as i stated


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was the other club a Prem club ? Was that before they had compulsory testing for League 1 and 2 ?


Why don’t you respond directly to me ?

What “fact” did I get wrong - Newcastle Villa was postponed due to Covid cases as i stated
		
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was Spurs and yeah expect it was


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Funny how the null and voiders have turned into just play at any costs'🤭🤭
		
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🎻 🎻 🥱🥱🥱


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			was Spurs and yeah expect it was
		
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Have had a look and it was - not sure how they could have got around it with it being a cup game ? Without it affecting the whole comp. 

If City have been hit hard it could be the start of big affects as they have another 3 games in 10 days I think it is including two cup Games. They can prob postpone the league game but the two cup games ?


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## DanFST (Dec 28, 2020)

Should have been awarded to Everton. The bubble was compromised, City couldn't have followed procedures.

Should also have to pay to compensation to the 2000 that were attending and all Everton's costs to host the match.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have had a look and it was - not sure how they could have got around it with it being a cup game ? Without it affecting the whole comp.

If City have been hit hard it could be the start of big affects as they have another 3 games in 10 days I think it is including two cup Games. They can prob postpone the league game but the two cup games ?
		
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already being reported theyll be allowed to postpone the cup game and not be thrown out as LO were


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			already being reported theyll be allowed to postpone the cup game and not be thrown out as LO were
		
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Then that would be wrong 

These are the rules it seems


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Then that would be wrong

These are the rules it seems

View attachment 34200

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its semi final stage, ie after round 4


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			its semi final stage, ie after round 4
		
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Of course 👍 and guess there is plenty of time until the final - doesn’t feel right though 



DanFST said:



			Should have been awarded to Everton. *The bubble was compromised, City couldn't have followed procedures.*

Should also have to pay to compensation to the 2000 that were attending and all Everton's costs to host the match.
		
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Even in bubbles people can catch Covid - they aren’t immune , they stayed at a hotel the other day so it wouldn’t take much for one person to catch it via there .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Should have been awarded to Everton. The bubble was compromised, City couldn't have followed procedures.

Should also have to pay to compensation to the 2000 that were attending and all Everton's costs to host the match.
		
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I disagree, what smells is when City did these tests and when they believed the bubble was compromised, they had 2 players positive from Christmas Day.
They are retaking the tests tomorrow and awaiting the results to see if further fixtures should be postponed.

It needs to be clear why though, Newcastle kept Villa fully involved and stated exactly who and how many positives they had in their Camp with the decision to postpone taken in plenty of time, all Everton know at the moment is the City bubble is believed to be compromised and that’s it.

Going forward, every Club needs clarification.


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## DanFST (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Even in bubbles people can catch Covid - they aren’t immune , they stayed at a hotel the other day so it wouldn’t take much for one person to catch it via there .
		
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Of course they can, however processes are in place to minimise multiple infections. Every club has had infections, with 1 or 2 players getting sick. City have enough that the training ground is compromised. 

Jesus and Walker got it on Christmas day, How has it taken 3 days to fully investigate? And left fans and Everton out of pocket.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Should have been awarded to Everton. The bubble was compromised, City couldn't have followed procedures.

Should also have to pay to compensation to the 2000 that were attending and all Everton's costs to host the match.
		
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City have been told positive cases have subsequently been reported at the hotel they were staying in. when they played Arsenal in the cup.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Of course they can, however processes are in place to minimise multiple infections. Every club has had infections, with 1 or 2 players getting sick. City have enough that the training ground is compromised.

*Jesus and Walker got it on Christmas day, How has it taken 3 days to fully investigate?* And left fans and Everton out of pocket.
		
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This is the most important question. 

I'm sure Everton will refund fans ASAP to make sure they're not left out of pocket.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Of course they can, however processes are in place to minimise multiple infections. Every club has had infections, with 1 or 2 players getting sick. City have enough that the training ground is compromised.

Jesus and Walker got it on Christmas day, How has it taken 3 days to fully investigate? And left fans and Everton out of pocket.
		
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The same way as Newcastle training ground got infected or indeed many other secure bubbles , it’s a virus that goes around very quickly - there is no rule book for this , we only have to see how the cases right now are going through the roof especially in London where City have recently been. 

The timing isn’t great but it’s why they have daily testing and this situation was always going to happen at some stage 

You would expect and hope the fans would be reimbursed any charges


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Of course they can, however processes are in place to minimise multiple infections. Every club has had infections, with 1 or 2 players getting sick. City have enough that the training ground is compromised.

*Jesus* and Walker *got it on Christmas day*, How has it taken 3 days to fully investigate? And left fans and Everton out of pocket.
		
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That's a bit of bad luck. On his birthday as well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			City have been told positive cases have subsequently been reported at the hotel they were staying in. when they played Arsenal in the cup.
		
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It’s also reported City tried to postpone this morning and the PL said No, probably best waiting for the facts.

I wouldn’t want the game played and then our players catching it.

More important things in life than football.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			City have been told positive cases have subsequently been reported at the hotel they were staying in. when they played Arsenal in the cup.
		
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Has it been confirmed who was positive since Xmas day?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s also reported City tried to postpone this morning and the PL said No, probably best waiting for the facts.

I wouldn’t want the game played and then our players catching it.

More important things in life than football.
		
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The PL said back in September that no games would be postponed even if teams only had 3 subs or academy players in the match day squad. 

What's changed.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			or it was big club v little club, who knows 

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Here we go again “Liddell Citeh “ 😁

As has been mentioned, Newcastle did keep the prem league informed, but

“There were complications at Newcastle, because two players that had tested negative were actually carrying the virus”. So you report what’s gone off re testing but it’s not factually correct. And the downward spiral continues.

City and Newcastle have now cancelled games, al be surprised if there the last.


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## DanFST (Dec 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The same way as Newcastle training ground got infected or indeed many other secure bubbles , it’s a virus that goes around very quickly - there is no rule book for this , we only have to see how the cases right now are going through the roof especially in London where City have recently been.

The timing isn’t great but it’s why they have daily testing and this situation was always going to happen at some stage

You would expect and hope the fans would be reimbursed any charges
		
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Reimbursed by whom? Everton haven't done anything wrong. 

Call me a cynic. The amount of back room effort that goes into making sure everything is sanatised, and secure is insane. The chances of catching it from a hotel is almost none. However if you have players that have already been caught multiple times breaking covid rules we all have to follow, and only getting a slap on the wrist. It's going to continue to happen. You have to hurt the clubs so they take control of their players. Newcastle and City are the only ones to have a serious issue. No other PL league club has despite infections. It can't be just luck. 

the NFL is more contact and higher risk. The teams that have had mass infections so far have all been investigated and deemed not to have followed League guidelines, and fined substantially.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Has it been confirmed who was positive since Xmas day?
		
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Not heard anything yet, there’s a lot more testing to be done tomorrow with the Chelsea game looking iffy.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Has it been confirmed who was positive since Xmas day?
		
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not sure about City but Gabriel has tested positive for us


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Not heard anything yet, there’s a lot more testing to be done tomorrow with the Chelsea game looking iffy.
		
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pretty fair to assume that games off surely


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Reimbursed by whom? Everton haven't done anything wrong.

Call me a cynic. The amount of back room effort that goes into making sure everything is sanatised, and secure is insane. The chances of catching it from a hotel is almost none. However if you have players that have already been caught multiple times breaking covid rules we all have to follow, and only getting a slap on the wrist. It's going to continue to happen. You have to hurt the clubs so they take control of their players. Newcastle and City are the only ones to have a serious issue. No other PL league club has despite infections. It can't be just luck.

the NFL is more contact and higher risk. The teams that have had mass infections so far have all been investigated and deemed not to have followed League guidelines, and fined substantially.
		
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As I have said,Newcastle tested players and two players were shown as negative, but were in actual fact positive. Who is to blame for that. There’s no Conspiracy here


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The PL said back in September that no games would be postponed even if teams only had 3 subs or academy players in the match day squad.

What's changed.
		
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It went to VAR and Utd got a penalty 😁


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Not heard anything yet, there’s a lot more testing to be done tomorrow with the Chelsea game looking iffy.
		
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If anyone who was involved in the Newcastle game has tested positive, it opens a massive can of worms.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Reimbursed by whom? Everton haven't done anything wrong.

Call me a cynic. The amount of back room effort that goes into making sure everything is sanatised, and secure is insane. The chances of catching it from a hotel is almost none. However if you have players that have already been caught multiple times breaking covid rules we all have to follow, and only getting a slap on the wrist. It's going to continue to happen. You have to hurt the clubs so they take control of their players. Newcastle and City are the only ones to have a serious issue. No other PL league club has despite infections. It can't be just luck.

the NFL is more contact and higher risk. The teams that have had mass infections so far have all been investigated and deemed not to have followed League guidelines, and fined substantially.
		
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You would hope that City are the ones to dip their hands into their pockets but then it is Football and the Premier League and morals at time are lacking

As for the way the players act - I think there is every chance something has happened - they have form but you would hope that City would deal with it

It is a shame that they can’t do what the NFL did with players by cancelling contracts but it will never happen in football - players know any punishment is irrelevant

But there is also the chance that it’s just gone round the squad with a number of players having the virus with no symptoms etc

There is also the issue they recently played Newcastle who have had the same issue


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If anyone who was involved in the Newcastle game has tested positive, it opens a massive can of worms.
		
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Trouble is Stu, I had a test to see if I have had Covid about 6 weeks ago. Lad had a Covid test the same day. Both tests said negative could be positive and Vica versa. If the Newcastle lads tested negative and played. What do you put it down to 🤔


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## DanFST (Dec 28, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Trouble is Stu, I had a test to see if I have had Covid about 6 weeks ago. Lad had a Covid test the same day. Both tests said negative could be positive and Vica versa. If the Newcastle lads tested negative and played. What do you put it down to 🤔
		
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That's the thing, @Ethan has said along with current belief, chances of getting it outside are very very small. Protocol must have been ignored somewhere.

Again to bring up the NFL, one team was caught with players not wearing masks as soon as got off the pitch and in the dressing room. Fined massively. A young player who was very valuable was caught breaking guidelines the other week, contract was rescinded, he won't play again. He didn't even have covid!


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2020)

DanFST said:



			That's the thing, @Ethan has said along with current belief, chances of getting it outside are very very small. Protocol must have been ignored somewhere.

Again to bring up the NFL, one team was caught with players not wearing masks as soon as got off the pitch and in the dressing room. Fined massively. A young player who was very valuable was caught breaking guidelines the other week, contract was rescinded, he won't play again. He didn't even have covid!
		
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There’s a good write up on the BBC re the cancelling of the game and other Covid outbreaks and cancelled games this season. Unfortunately it’s been more widespread throughout the leagues than we would like


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2020)

DanFST said:



			That's the thing, @Ethan has said along with current belief, chances of getting it outside are very very small. Protocol must have been ignored somewhere.

Again to bring up the NFL, one team was caught with players not wearing masks as soon as got off the pitch and in the dressing room. Fined massively. A young player who was very valuable was caught breaking guidelines the other week, contract was rescinded, he won't play again. He didn't even have covid!
		
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Problem is you’re relying on players families attitudes to protocols. It’s all well and good players following the strict guidelines but the clubs can’t control where the families go and who they mix with.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2020)

Blimey,people are losing their life’s & people seem more interested in arguing the toss over football 🤦‍♂️


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## DanFST (Dec 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Problem is you’re relying on players families attitudes to protocols. It’s all well and good players following the strict guidelines but the clubs can’t control where the families go and who they mix with.
		
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Many of us, including myself spent Christmas alone. And I'm not getting paid thousands a week. With the money involved it's not hard to buy 2 households everything they need to isolate for 10 days before Christmas. If they want to go ahead with it. Or even get them privately tested in the run up. But no, there's no incentive to minimise risk, so why bother?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			😂😂 Well done Big Sam, Get’s a point against the League Leaders, who were only missing 1 player and had had 8 days rest after klippetty moaning about fixture congestion.

Fans go in to meltdown. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
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Have you been reading the dickhead press again?

He hasnt moaned about fixture congestion, just about wednesday night teams playing the 12.30 game on a Saturday.

Why not disseminate what he actual says rather than re-spouting the crap that journalists say, without actually listening to what he says?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Have you been reading the dickhead press again?

He hasnt moaned about fixture congestion, just about wednesday night teams playing the 12.30 game on a Saturday.

Why not disseminate what he actual says rather than re-spouting the crap that journalists say, without actually listening to what he says?
		
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Because sometimes it’s just nice to try and wind some LPool fans up and I thought I’d do it after reading the rubbish that was coming out from some of your fans on here.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Blimey,people are losing their life’s & people seem more interested in arguing the toss over football 🤦‍♂️
		
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Shock, horror, it’s on the football thread, but for the 3rd or 4th time today you’ve come on this thread and trolled instead of discussing football.
Maybe the mods should look at what you add.......


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2020)

It's not PL but we don't have an EFL thread this year. Pulis has been sacked at Sheff Wed after 10 games. Is that the end of his time now as a manager?

Back to last nights call off, over in the world of rugby both Bath and Newcastle have just been awarded wins over teams that called off their games due to covid outbreaks within their ranks. Just a thought 😉


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## Paperboy (Dec 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's not PL but we don't have an EFL thread this year. Pulis has been sacked at Sheff Wed after 10 games. Is that the end of his time now as a manager?

Back to last nights call off, over in the world of rugby both Bath and Newcastle have just been awarded wins over teams that called off their games due to covid outbreaks within their ranks. Just a thought 😉
		
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Yes with the other teams have been awarded two points as well though. Which would equate to losing by less then 7 and scoring four tries. I don't get this as they award a 28 - 0 win and no bonus points.


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## Beezerk (Dec 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's not PL but we don't have an EFL thread this year. Pulis has been sacked at Sheff Wed after 10 games. Is that the end of his time now as a manager?
		
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I don't like seeing managers getting sacked but his record since he arrived has been atrocious. Joking with a mate yesterday I suggested he could have one of the shortest managerial reigns of the last 40 years


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Because sometimes it’s just nice to try and wind some LPool fans up and I thought I’d do it after reading the rubbish that was coming out from some of your fans on here.
		
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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 34214

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You only reply on here to troll scousers, get a life.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2020)

Yes ok Paul 😬🤦‍♂️😂😂😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yes ok Paul 😬🤦‍♂️😂😂😂
		
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How many bans/warnings/infractions you had? #askingforafriend


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's not PL but we don't have an EFL thread this year. Pulis has been sacked at Sheff Wed after 10 games. Is that the end of his time now as a manager?

Back to last nights call off, over in the world of rugby both Bath and Newcastle have just been awarded wins over teams that called off their games due to covid outbreaks within their ranks. Just a thought 😉
		
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Sorry but no none Prem talk allowed - we were informed of that yesterday 😉



pauljames87 said:



			Don't see what relevance it has to the premier League 20/21 season 🤷
		
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In regards the rugby comparisons  - The Prem did say that games won’t be postponed etc etc but then they allowed Newcastle Villa to be postponed.

The postponement might help Everton as they would potentially get their better players back and also have to play it when City would be playing a lot of games in a short period

It’s the inconvenience of it all - but I can’t see the Prem started to award points and games because of Covid - open up all sorts of issues


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			How many bans/warnings/infractions you had? #askingforafriend
		
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Remember when you made a big song and dance about having me on ignore?
😳😬🤦‍♂️😂

We’re adding nothing to the thread here Pal 😬👍🏻👍🏻


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## pauljames87 (Dec 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but no none Prem talk allowed - we were informed of that yesterday 😉



In regards the rugby - The Prem did say that games won’t be postponed etc etc but then they allowed Newcastle Villa to be postponed. 

The postponement might help Everton as they would potentially get their better players back and also have to play it when City would be playing a lot of games in a short period 

It’s the inconvenience of it all - but I can’t see the Prem started to award points and games because of Covid - open up all sorts of issues
		
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Sorry captain pedant .. but the rugby is the premiership .. where as football is the premier League (as per title)

Please keep the thread on topic


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Mane better than salah?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Stick to touting cup final tickets .
		
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so I can’t debate players , tactics without being accused of a criminal offence .( ticket touting is still against the law I think).?

The facts!
My 32 yr old son a season ticket holder sold his CL final ticket to his boss who offered a stupid amount for it.
This had “absolutely nothing to do with me.”

so can you explain please how this makes me a ticket tout as in your accusation.
Thank you.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Remember when you made a big song and dance about having me on ignore?
😳😬🤦‍♂️😂

We’re adding nothing to the thread here Pal 😬👍🏻👍🏻
		
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You’ve added nothing to this thread for years! Now where can I find a hypocrisy gif?


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’ve added nothing to this thread for years! Now where can I find a hypocrisy gif?

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I said “we’re adding nothing” 🤦‍♂️

Unbelievable 🤡😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			I said “we’re adding nothing” 🤦‍♂️

Unbelievable 🤡😂
		
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Well how about we both change our ways for 2021 and see if you and I can actually talk about the PL rather than baiting others  on this thread?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Because sometimes it’s just nice to try and wind some LPool fans up and I thought I’d do it after reading the rubbish that was coming out from some of your fans on here.
		
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Either that or you can't admit your wrong on this occasion?

Maybe think for yourself next time?


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2020)

I see ex Chelsea player Diego Costa is now a free agent. Lets hope he has no links to Jorabchian or he'll be on 250k a week at the Arsenal retirement home before new years


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2020)

Seems Sheff Utd have a number of players who have tested positive now, albeit their game at Burnley is still on


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Either that or you can't admit your wrong on this occasion?

Maybe think for yourself next time?
		
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I don’t need you to second guess me! You asked a question and got an answer, maybe look at the laughing emoji’s around the post to try and understand what it was actually about, or better still, question some of your own supporters and the rubbish they post.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			Seems Sheff Utd have a number of players who have tested positive now, albeit their game at Burnley is still on
		
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They haven't got powerful owners like City.....


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2020)

Sounds like the premier league clubs are talking about having a 2 week "cooling off"  break in January


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2020)

Looks like Fulham’s game against Spurs is under threat as well with Fulham have an increased number of cases


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## Imurg (Dec 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sounds like the premier league clubs are talking about having a 2 week "cooling off"  break in January
		
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If the numbers keep going the way they're going you can double, treble or even quadruple that...


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## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sounds like the premier league clubs are talking about having a 2 week "cooling off"  break in January
		
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It makes sense to have a mid winter break, get rid of the international break and catch up there.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 29, 2020)

Anyone in need of a good laugh. Watch the WBA OG against Leeds.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2020)

5.7 for Smith Rowes effort sigh


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## USER1999 (Dec 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			I see ex Chelsea player Diego Costa is now a free agent. Lets hope he has no links to Jorabchian or he'll be on 250k a week at the Arsenal retirement home before new years 

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If we end up with him, we really are Chelsea's retirement home.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 29, 2020)

Big Sam defensive masterclass in action against Leeds.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2020)

Imurg said:



			If the numbers keep going the way they're going you can double, treble or even quadruple that...
		
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Null & Void 🤷‍♂️


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## paddyc (Dec 29, 2020)

Please welcome Alexander Lacazette GOOOOAAAAALLLL


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## paddyc (Dec 29, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Please welcome Alexander Lacazette GOOOOAAAAALLLL
		
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Get in there. Thats a good win as Brighton tough side these days. Much better in 2nd half. Hope Saka ok who was again our biggest threat. Bright spot Emile Smith Rowe who worked tirelessly. Wont be long till we're back in top 4.!!!


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Get in there. Thats a good win as Brighton tough side these days. Much better in 2nd half. Hope Saka ok who was again our biggest threat. Bright spot Emile Smith Rowe who worked tirelessly. Wont be long till we're back in top 4.!!!
		
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Awful first half, better 2nd half. Is Elneny and Xhaka the slowest midfield pairing ever? Hope the talks that Parteys back training are right

ESR was excellent again (despite Brighton deciding to kick him for fun), Saka excellent too


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## AmandaJR (Dec 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			Awful first half, better 2nd half. Is Elneny and Xhaka the slowest midfield pairing ever? Hope the talks that Parteys back training are right

ESR was excellent again (*despite Brighton deciding to kick him for fun)*, Saka excellent too
		
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He best invest in some bigger shin pads


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t need you to second guess me! You asked a question and got an answer, maybe look at the laughing emoji’s around the post to try and understand what it was actually about, or better still, question some of your own supporters and the rubbish they post.
		
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Nope, you got it wrong, pure and simple and the emojis are for other parts of what you said. 

We regularly question each other and dont always agree as some fixed body of people just because we support the same team, but I massively agree, they don't half post some rubbish.


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## Slime (Dec 29, 2020)

Not seen the League table today ..................................... anyone know who's second?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nope, you got it wrong, pure and simple and the emojis are for other parts of what you said.

We regularly question each other and dont always agree as some fixed body of people just because we support the same team, but I massively agree, they don't half post some rubbish.

Click to expand...

Sorry Pete, but you’ve totally read it wrong, my post was pure banter in trying to wind Stu up after his discussion with CC in response to Stu mentioning me in post #4125 after I hadn’t been on this footie thread in over a week. 

You won’t be bothered to look, but I posted on here my agreement with Klopp’s pov when it was in the media and how PL Clubs in Europe are treated by the hierarchy.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry Pete, but you’ve totally read it wrong, my post was pure banter in trying to wind Stu up after his discussion with CC in response to Stu mentioning me in post #4125 after I hadn’t been on this footie thread in over a week. 

You won’t be bothered to look, but I posted on here my agreement with Klopp’s pov when it was in the media and how PL Clubs in Europe are treated by the hierarchy.
		
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I'll take your word for it, but one thing that did wind me up was when our so-called eminent sports journalists were constantly saying that Klopp was complaining about fixture congestion when in fact he was only complaining about one particular kick off time (and not number of games) and these are people who get paid to do their jobs, and no-one was pulling them up for it. it then filters down into divvies who just quote the press instead of actually making an opinion of their own. Its quite common on here.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'll take your word for it, but one thing that did wind me up was when our so-called eminent sports journalists were constantly saying that Klopp was complaining about fixture congestion when in fact he was only complaining about one particular kick off time (and not number of games) and these are people who get paid to do their jobs, and no-one was pulling them up for it. it then filters down into divvies who just quote the press instead of actually making an opinion of their own. Its quite common on here.
		
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Just for you


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2020)

Whilst the league is competitive,the standard at the top is poor.
That’s a bang average UTD side and theyre 2pts off the top.
And that’s not me having a pop at UTD.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			so I can’t debate players , tactics without being accused of a criminal offence .( ticket touting is still against the law I think).?

The facts!
My 32 yr old son a season ticket holder sold his CL final ticket to his boss who offered a stupid amount for it.
This had “absolutely nothing to do with me.”

so can you explain please how this makes me a ticket tout as in your accusation.
Thank you.
		
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Just been alerted to this post, I can remember you justifying ticket touting some months ago so whilst I was wrong about you, i wasn’t wrong you justifying touting. I vividly remembered you posting how your son had the right to sell “his“ ticket for a vast amount of money. I 100% disagree with anyone selling A ticket for anything more than face value  and in my book is an utter cretin.

You’re entitled to your opinion about players but when you’re talking absolute shite then I can’t let it go unchallenged.

You’ve previously stated you don’t like Klopp and your posts about Salah, that’s sound, you’re entitled to your opinion but at least have some substance with your reasoning. Your general negativity about the best Liverpool side we’ve seen in decades is bemusing, I don’t understand what you want.

You often mention about a 1 chance,1 goal striker, I’d love to know who they are because Im struggling to think of any out there in world football.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just been alerted to this post, I can remember you justifying ticket touting some months ago so whilst I was wrong about you, i wasn’t wrong you justifying touting. I vividly remembered you posting how your son had the right to sell “his“ ticket for a vast amount of money. I 100% disagree with anyone selling A ticket for anything more than face value  and in my book is an utter cretin.

You’re entitled to your opinion about players but when you’re talking absolute shite then I can’t let it go unchallenged.

You’ve previously stated you don’t like Klopp and your posts about Salah, that’s sound, you’re entitled to your opinion but at least have some substance with your reasoning. Your general negativity about the best Liverpool side we’ve seen in decades is bemusing, I don’t understand what you want.

You often mention about a 1 chance,1 goal striker, I’d love to know who they are because Im struggling to think of any out there in world football.
		
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While we don’t agree about football probably never will.
What anyone else does with their tickets has nothing to do with me!

He never touted his ticket his boss OFFERED a silly amount for it.
Honestly I agree with your point on touting.
But when the powers that be set a final in the middle of nowhere with no transport links that means an ordinary working lad needs to take a week off work to go the game , I don’t blame anybody selling his ticket.
That was the point I made at the time.
If it had been Spain / Germany where he could get there and home in a day he would have gone.


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## Dando (Dec 30, 2020)

given their recent performances surely it wont be long before a big European club try and sign Rashford and Fernandes


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 30, 2020)

Dando said:



			given their recent performances surely it wont be long before a big European club try and sign Rashford and Fernandes
		
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What’s the definition of Big have watched some of them in CL and they have been awful.
He’s better off where he is imo.
Popcorn nearly ready.


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## Orikoru (Dec 30, 2020)

Fulham v Spurs is definitely off now. Might as well cancel the season. Null and void!


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Fulham v Spurs is definitely off now. Might as well cancel the season. Null and void!
		
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If we're going to do that can we also void last season as well?


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## Orikoru (Dec 30, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			If we're going to do that can we also void last season as well?
		
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I think it's for the best.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 30, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			If we're going to do that can we also void last season as well?
		
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To late now Trophy’s in the cabinet.
But this season it’s quite close atm if it gets any worse it’s not impossible.
Sure the money will talk.
But been proved that their COVID bubbles are not  secure.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			To late now Trophy’s in the cabinet.
But this season it’s quite close atm if it gets any worse it’s not impossible.
Sure the money will talk.
But been proved that their COVID bubbles are not  secure.
		
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We have seen the Covid bubbles aren't secure but why not. Rugby seems to be coping relatively well (with bigger playing squads) but if we halt the footie season now with so much other footie how does it get finished. I can't seeing anyone in power or with a vested interest wanting a void season


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We have seen the Covid bubbles aren't secure but why not. *Rugby seems to be coping relatively well *(with bigger playing squads) but if we halt the footie season now with so much other footie how does it get finished. I can't seeing anyone in power or with a vested interest wanting a void season
		
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Is it? Latest round of testing had 33 positive tests across the 10 clubs and 3 games cancelled in the last week because of Covid


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## DanFST (Dec 30, 2020)

"Latest round of testing" 

Are they not tested every day? In the NFL they are, along with GPS transmitters at all times.


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2020)

DanFST said:



			"Latest round of testing"

Are they not tested every day? In the NFL they are, along with GPS transmitters at all times.
		
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no theyre not, like prem league football theyre tested once (or twice) a week and weekly results released i believe unless they have reason to test for a specific reason


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## DanFST (Dec 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			no theyre not, like prem league football theyre tested once (or twice) a week and weekly results released i believe unless they have reason to test for a specific reason
		
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Well that's disgusting. What do they expect to happen!?


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Well that's disgusting. What do they expect to happen!?
		
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why is it disgusting? why do you need to be tested every day? i assume testing every day has led to no problems in the NFL?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			Is it? Latest round of testing had 33 positive tests across the 10 clubs and 3 games cancelled in the last week because of Covid
		
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Is that a case then of the new strain suddenly being a game changer in professional sport as, like football, until recently they had been ticking along nicely. If the new strain can take hold that much quicker even inside a bubble surely there is an argument for sporting fire-break.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			To late now Trophy’s in the cabinet.
		
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But it will always have an asterisk against it.


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is that a case then of the new strain suddenly being a game changer in professional sport as, like football, until recently they had been ticking along nicely. If the new strain can take hold that much quicker even inside a bubble surely there is an argument for sporting fire-break.
		
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Have no idea whether the new strain is to blame, will no doubt cop the blame though. Personally be surprised if theres a firebreak unless it comes as an order from the government


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## DanFST (Dec 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			why is it disgusting? why do you need to be tested every day? i assume testing every day has led to no problems in the NFL?
		
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There has been two mass outbreaks (23 out of 100+ players and staff), but both teams were Investigated and found to have breached the league regulations. Players also had the option to miss the season and take a heavily reduced salary. ($150k stipend still......)

Because players are being forced to work against government guidelines, every day. Without any knowledge of what other players have done the night before, after quite a few have been shown to not give a s***.  A 15 minute test arriving at the training ground whilst not 100% is a bare minimum.


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## Slime (Dec 30, 2020)

Dando said:



			given their recent performances surely it wont be long before a big European club try and sign Rashford and Fernandes
		
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Why would they want to leave?
Rashford has recently stated that he wants to spend his whole career at United.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Why would they want to leave?
Rashford has recently stated that he wants to spend his whole career at United.
		
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That is refreshing to hear in the current age where money talks and club loyalty is dropped for the next big cut of a massive transfer fee. Whether that happens or a club offers United money they can't refuse remains to be seen. I would love to see him have his whole playing career at United and wish more players felt the same


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			That is refreshing to hear in the current age where money talks and club loyalty is dropped for the next big cut of a massive transfer fee. Whether that happens or a club offers United money they can't refuse remains to be seen. I would love to see him have his whole playing career at United and wish more players felt the same
		
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not sure Mr Rashford is your typical young English football based on how hes acted the 12 mths or so. Id be surprised to see him leave thats for sure. Fernandes however.....


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Why would they want to leave?
Rashford has recently stated that he wants to spend his whole career at United.
		
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That's so sweet that anyone might actually believe that comment 😁. Doesn't every player say that when asked the question by the local press? I bet even Pogba has said it at some point


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## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2020)

W


Lord Tyrion said:



			That's so sweet that anyone might actually believe that comment 😁. Doesn't every player say that when asked the question by the local press? I bet even Pogba has said it at some point 

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i think being home grown for arguably the biggest club in England is a little different than Saints or Everton. 

Players generally leave for two reasons if they’re decent. Money or prizes. He has as much chance of those at UTD as most places. Also, I can’t see what other super club would want him, or pay a fee that would tempt utd.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 30, 2020)

Sobering article https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55224155 (no pun intended)


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 30, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			W


i think being home grown for arguably the biggest club in England is a little different than Saints or Everton.

Players generally leave for two reasons if they’re decent. Money or prizes. He has as much chance of those at UTD as most places. Also, I can’t see what other super club would want him, or pay a fee that would tempt utd.
		
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Players move at the drop of a hat, same as clubs selling. If Rashford doesn't get enough game time he will be off, if his agent doesn't think he is getting enough money he will be off, if Utd keep struggling to either qualify or go far in the CL he will be off. You can make similar arguments for clubs selling a player. 

These comments are cliched and thrown out by players way too often to have meaning any more.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 30, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We have seen the Covid bubbles aren't secure but why not. Rugby seems to be coping relatively well (with bigger playing squads) but if we halt the footie season now with so much other footie how does it get finished. I can't seeing anyone in power or with a vested interest wanting a void season
		
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Some PL players are very arrogant think they can do as they like.

Contact on the pitch is inevitable but all the hand shaking before and after the game is unnecessary and should be banned.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Players move at the drop of a hat, same as clubs selling. If Rashford doesn't get enough game time he will be off, if his agent doesn't think he is getting enough money he will be off, if Utd keep struggling to either qualify or go far in the CL he will be off. You can make similar arguments for clubs selling a player.

These comments are cliched and thrown out by players way too often to have meaning any more.
		
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I’m not so sure. Not sure many Utd home grown players that actually get into the team and become regulars have left of their own accord too often. Certainly not in their peak. 

The pay won’t be an issue, they pay well. 
Re success, Kane is at Spurs still....... Also, are city or Liverpool gonna come in for him? As Utd are still as likely to win something as anyone else in england and I don’t see many European teams being able to afford him. 
Re playing time, if he isn’t getting that, it’ll be because he’s not good enough for the team, so not really his choice such, more his hand forced.

I think as a fan of a less successful team I’m as cynical as you when we sign a player who spits that’s nonsense, but id imagine most players at their local clubs would stay if they won trophies and paid as well as Utd had done for the last 20 Years.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 30, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I’m not so sure. Not sure many Utd home grown players that actually get into the team and become regulars have left of their own accord too often. Certainly not in their peak.

The pay won’t be an issue, they pay well.
Re success, Kane is at Spurs still....... Also, are city or Liverpool gonna come in for him? As Utd are still as likely to win something as anyone else in england and I don’t see many European teams being able to afford him.
Re playing time, if he isn’t getting that, it’ll be because he’s not good enough for the team, so not really his choice such, more his hand forced.

I think as a fan of a less successful team I’m as cynical as you when we sign a player who spits that’s nonsense, but id imagine most players at their local clubs would stay if they won trophies and paid as well as Utd had done for the last 20 Years.
		
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The issue is we never know how things will change. A new manager comes in and doesn't fancy him, doesn't think he fits the system, has his own player he brings with him etc. Suddenly he becomes a squad player and is no longer happy.

Football is so fluid now, I just don't believe anyone can give future guarantees or even genuinely mean them.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 30, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We have seen the Covid bubbles aren't secure but why not. Rugby seems to be coping relatively well (with bigger playing squads) but if we halt the footie season now with so much other footie how does it get finished. I can't seeing anyone in power or with a vested interest wanting a void season
		
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International football was so stupid . Let them mix with other bubbles then back to their club bubble whilst sending the virus around the globe 

Plus it's the behaviour of footballers

Kyle walkers parties


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## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The issue is we never know how things will change. A new manager comes in and doesn't fancy him, doesn't think he fits the system, has his own player he brings with him etc. Suddenly he becomes a squad player and is no longer happy.

Football is so fluid now, I just don't believe anyone can give future guarantees or even genuinely mean them.
		
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I think it depends how literally you want to take his statement. Imo he would genuinely like to stay there forever if Things stayed as they were. 

For me, player loyalty is shown when you have options to leave whilst the club still want you and you don’t try to leave. If he’s dropped, replaced then he isn’t being disloyal by looking elsewhere. If he rises to be the best Player in world footy and then gets his agent to sort him a move, then he isn’t loyal.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 30, 2020)

Who thinks of them? 😂😂


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## hairball_89 (Dec 30, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 34241

Who thinks of them? 😂😂
		
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🤣🤣

That is quite amusing. Although even with him we'd have been no better off tonight. toothless up top again, and when we did get a decent opportunity met with a MOTM keeper. 

Annoyingly a deserved point for all involved.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 30, 2020)

Can't fault the performance, Not finishing very good chances cost us.

Desperately need a CB or 2 in January, can't rely on our best CM and a couple of young lads. As much as he's played well at CB, we lose Fabinho's quality in the middle of the park.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Can't fault the performance, Not finishing very good chances cost us.

Desperately need a CB or 2 in January, can't rely on our best CM and a couple of young lads. As much as he's played well at CB, we lose Fabinho's quality in the middle of the park.
		
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Absolutely agree with the last bit. Fab in midfield was so important to our play last season and the more the season goes on it's that which we're blindingly obviously missing. Hopefully Thiago coming back will improve that though. He just makes me smile as a footballer. Saunters onto the pitch after not playing for 2 months, hammers one from distance and then effortlessly pings one 45 yards to feet, then dances around a pair of opposition players. 

I think 1 is the max number of CBs we sign in jan. and tbh, I'm not even sure we'll do that.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 30, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Absolutely agree with the last bit. Fab in midfield was so important to our play last season and the more the season goes on it's that which we're blindingly obviously missing. Hopefully Thiago coming back will improve that though. He just makes me smile as a footballer. Saunters onto the pitch after not playing for 2 months, hammers one from distance and then effortlessly pings one 45 yards to feet, then dances around a pair of opposition players.

I think 1 is the max number of CBs we sign in jan. and tbh, I'm not even sure we'll do that.
		
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Matip is out for few months, maybe now is the time to look for his long term replacement as we can’t rely on Phillips he has no pace.

I never want to see Milner and Henderson in that midfield 3 together ever again.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Matip is out for few months, maybe now is the time to look for his long term replacement as we can’t rely on Phillips he has no pace.

I never want to see Milner and Henderson in that midfield 3 together ever again.
		
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Agree. On all points. I'm just not sure we'll go for anyone in January. historically with Klopp we don't. Although, if we do I'd imagine it'll be done fairly quickly in Jan as it'll have been happening behind the scenes the last few months - like Taki last season and Virgil before.

Milner simply doesn't have the legs to play in the advanced positions for us anymore, or the ability to be the sitting player. Hendo was basically playing both positions and Jones had no chance in the first half as he was playing their midfield on his own!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 31, 2020)

Just poor finishing , final ball .
keeper was good though and rode their luck.
One thing I don’t understand was unless he’s injured why would we make a substitution with 3 mins to go.?
What is the lad supposed to do in 3 mins, he won’t even get warm in that time.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just poor finishing , final ball .
keeper was good though and rode their luck.
One thing I don’t understand was unless he’s injured why would we make a substitution with 3 mins to go.?
*What is the lad supposed to do in 3 mins, he won’t even get warm in that time*.
		
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The only thing you can do is pull a muscle. Just a very odd decision. Was he trying to run the clock down? 😲


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## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Can't fault the performance, Not finishing very good chances cost us.

Desperately need a CB or 2 in January, can't rely on our best CM and a couple of young lads. As much as he's played well at CB, we lose Fabinho's quality in the middle of the park.
		
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Oddly enough reading that last bit, it could of been written by me last year or the year before when we lost Kompany. The first sentence could of been written by me this season.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 31, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just poor finishing , final ball .
keeper was good though and rode their luck.
One thing I don’t understand was unless he’s injured why would we make a substitution with 3 mins to go.?
What is the lad supposed to do in 3 mins, he won’t even get warm in that time.
		
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Wasting time to secure a point!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The only thing you can do is pull a muscle. Just a very odd decision. Was he trying to run the clock down? 😲
		
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Not sure about that.
But to sub at that time is usually injury, or tactics 
How anyone can change a game in 3 mins ???


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## Dando (Dec 31, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure about that.
But to sub at that time is usually injury, or tactics 
How anyone can change a game in 3 mins ???
		
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I remember playing a league game years ago and a sub changed the game about 45 seconds after coming on by getting set off


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## USER1999 (Dec 31, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure about that.
But to sub at that time is usually injury, or tactics
How anyone can change a game in 3 mins ???
		
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Not the same, but Lacazette changed the Brighton game within 22 seconds of coming on.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 31, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Not the same, but Lacazette changed the Brighton game within 22 seconds of coming on.
		
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Yes first touch saw that.
But what is the mindset of a player coming on the pitch at 91 mins.
A sub needs at least 20 mins imo .
Unless it’s an injury then it makes sense.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure about that.
But to sub at that time is usually injury, or tactics
How anyone can change a game in 3 mins ???
		
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My last point was tongue in cheek, I should have added a better emoji 😁.

It was still an odd change though at that time.


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2020)

Kolasinac first out the door, thats the first 100k a week off the wage bill. Just another £1m a week to go lol


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## Slime (Dec 31, 2020)

Dando said:



			I remember playing a league game years ago and *a sub changed the game about 45 seconds after coming on by getting set off*

Click to expand...

Steven Gerrard springs to mind.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 31, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344584078796988417
Brilliant that 😂😂


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## SteveW86 (Dec 31, 2020)

See Cavani has been banned for 3 games for his Instagram post


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 31, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			See Cavani has been banned for 3 games for his Instagram post
		
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What did he actually say?


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## anotherdouble (Dec 31, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			What did he actually say?
		
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Something worse Than an infraction me thinks 🤔


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 31, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			See Cavani has been banned for 3 games for his Instagram post
		
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I think that’s the same level as someone else who was recently banned for the racist connotations on social media - Cavani just showed a lack of poor judgement


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 31, 2020)

anotherdouble said:



			Something worse Than an infraction me thinks 🤔
		
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😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 31, 2020)

https://global247news.com/2020/12/3...vid-infections/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

how stupid can one footballer be - did he not learn from his first indiscretion 

If this ends up being true and the reason for the Covid cases then the book should be thrown at him and can see Everton looking for the points


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## AmandaJR (Dec 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://global247news.com/2020/12/3...vid-infections/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

how stupid can one footballer be - did he not learn from his first indiscretion

If this ends up being true and the reason for the Covid cases then the book should be thrown at him and can see Everton looking for the points
		
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Him and all those who chose to attend.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://global247news.com/2020/12/3...vid-infections/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

how stupid can one footballer be - did he not learn from his first indiscretion 

If this ends up being true and the reason for the Covid cases then the book should be thrown at him and can see Everton looking for the points
		
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Should be sacked.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 31, 2020)

Footballers continue to show how stupid they are and that they think they are above everyone else. (Yes, a massive generalisation)

If this is true then there should be serious consequences, no doubt he will get a small fine


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 31, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Him and all those who chose to attend.
		
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Yep spot on 


pauljames87 said:



			Should be sacked.
		
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Yes should be but a club will never do it due to them being more than employees


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## pauljames87 (Dec 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep spot on 


Yes should be but a club will never do it due to them being more than employees
		
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Can't imagine gone down well with pep who's mum died from it


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## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think that’s the same level as someone else who was recently banned for the racist connotations on social media - Cavani just showed a lack of poor judgement
		
Click to expand...

It was no different to what Bernado Silva posted and got a 1 match ban for. 

The FA are as inconsistent as the  PGMO's


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## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2020)

Now this could be very interesting, pal of mine has just sent it.


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Now this could be very interesting, pal of mine has just sent it.
		
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its almost like thats not whats being discussed in the previous few posts lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 31, 2020)

Had the same thing posted to me. I hope (but not confident) no Fulham players were there and became positive and caused the Spurs game to be postponed. If the post is true, I would ban them all indefinitely


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## AmandaJR (Dec 31, 2020)

If it's true I'd love to see Walker and every attendee sacked by their clubs and banned from playing for a professional football team anywhere in the world. Plus if it's doable put the lot in prison.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 31, 2020)

If prison not an option make them work community service at an overworked hospital portering the dead to the morgue.

I'm close to infraction territory reading this...if it's true of course.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 31, 2020)

Final option - remove their lungs to transplant into those wrecked by the virus.

Is that a step too far????


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## Papas1982 (Dec 31, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			If it's true I'd love to see Walker and every attendee sacked by their clubs and banned from playing for a professional football team anywhere in the world. Plus if it's doable put the lot in prison.
		
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Would you wish the same of every postie, office worker, supermarket staff that’s also breached the rules? I use those roles as they’re still working atm.
Its unrealistic to expect everyone to follow the rules perfectly. irrespective of their job and financial position.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Would you wish the same of every postie, office worker, supermarket staff that’s also breached the rules? I use those roles as they’re still working atm.
Its unrealistic to expect everyone to follow the rules perfectly. irrespective of their job and financial position.
		
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There's imperfect and then there's downright disregard for the rules/


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2020)

3 points, 3 points, 3 points 

Please post to Goodison Park 😆


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			3 points, 3 points, 3 points

Please post to Goodison Park 😆
		
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youre not getting 9 points


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 31, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			If it's true I'd love to see Walker and every attendee sacked by their clubs and banned from playing for a professional football team anywhere in the world. Plus if it's doable put the lot in prison.
		
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Certainly would like to see some sort of sanctions placed on them - but I don’t think football has the moral backbone to do anything 


Papas1982 said:



			Would you wish the same of every postie, office worker, supermarket staff that’s also breached the rules? I use those roles as they’re still working atm.
Its unrealistic to expect everyone to follow the rules perfectly. irrespective of their job and financial position.
		
Click to expand...

He is person is a very high profile job and for some a role model - when that government advisor broke the rules the demand was he would be sacked 

It’s not just about breaking the rules , it’s the second time it has done it ( alledged) and this time his actions potentially caused a game to be called off . If a postman did the same and then colleagues caught it etc and a post office was closed then yes you would expect sanctions.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			3 points, 3 points, 3 points

Please post to Goodison Park 😆
		
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There will be an asterisk on your points tally though.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly would like to see some sort of sanctions placed on them - but I don’t think football has the moral backbone to do anything


He is person is a very high profile job and for some a role model - when that government advisor broke the rules the demand was he would be sacked

It’s not just about breaking the rules , it’s the second time it has done it ( alledged) and this time his actions potentially caused a game to be called off . If a postman did the same and then colleagues caught it etc and a post office was closed then yes you would expect sanctions.
		
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Cummings wasn't actually sacked though, and a government official is far more high profile (or should be) than a footballer. 

I'm not defending his actions, but I don't go along with sports people needing to be role models. Idols yes, but I never once acted becusse of a sports person. You learn your values and morals at home. 

As harsh as it sounds, I agree re the postie, they're gonna be deemed expendable, but if you're important to your employers, they'll not be fired.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 31, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			There's imperfect and then there's downright disregard for the rules/
		
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I agree, but the rules and repercussions have been set. 

Fines which escalate in value. So he should be fined by the government.

Yes I know it'll mean nowt to him. But the rules are clear.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Cummings wasn't actually sacked though, and a government official is far more high profile (or should be) than a footballer.

I'm not defending his actions, but I don't go along with sports people needing to be role models. Idols yes, but I never once acted becusse of a sports person. You learn your values and morals at home.

As harsh as it sounds, I agree re the postie, they're gonna be deemed expendable, but if you're important to your employers, they'll not be fired.
		
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I know Cummings wasn’t sacked but that’s because his boss didn’t have the guts but later phased him away anyway

And for many footballers are role models and the clubs want them to be good role models - there are many out there that do look up to the players for various reasons. 

It’s time that football clubs put morals before finances and show people that being a footballer doesn’t make you immune from the highest punishment

Walker has disgraced his sport and his club once again and it needs addressing - fines are a waste of time


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 31, 2020)

Has he broke the law?
If so Get City’s fixture list and make him do community service all the days they play for the rest of the season.
Same for all the others who were there.
His employers might take some real action then.
Or just give him a Mickey Mouse fine.
My money is on the latter.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree, but the rules and repercussions have been set.

Fines which escalate in value. So he should be fined by the government.

Yes I know it'll mean nowt to him. But the rules are clear.
		
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They have been set but doesn't mean I don't wish for more for the arrogant so and so and his buddys.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know Cummings wasn’t sacked but that’s because his boss didn’t have the guts but later phased him away anyway

And for many footballers are role models and the clubs want them to be good role models - there are many out there that do look up to the players for various reasons.

It’s time that football clubs put morals before finances and show people that being a footballer doesn’t make you immune from the highest punishment

Walker has disgraced his sport and his club once again and it needs addressing - fines are a waste of time
		
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I agree with 1,2 and 4.
3 just isn’t going to happen.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 31, 2020)

Once again it seems some on here are prepared to accept an uncorroborated report from  an unknown journalist as fact.

Before demanding punishment for these players should we not wait for their guilt to be proven.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2020)

fundy said:



			youre not getting 9 points 

Click to expand...

3 will do nicely 😄. 

Although 9 sounds better now you mention it. In Fergie's time they would have given utd 9 🤣


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## AmandaJR (Dec 31, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Once again it seems some on here are prepared to accept an uncorroborated report from  an unknown journalist as fact.

Before demanding punishment for these players should we not wait for their guilt to be proven.
		
Click to expand...

I think most posts precede with "if proven to be true" or similar. Walker does have previous though - not that that's unique with professional footballers!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 31, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I think most posts precede with "if proven to be true" or similar. Walker does have previous though - not that that's unique with professional footballers!
		
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I appreciate that most have prefaced their remarks but I couldn't help noticing the word "alleged" was becoming a little less obvious. 

And based on previous form it wouldn't be entirely surprising if true.

It just makes me uncomfortable when punishments are being demanded before the "csse" has been tried.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2020)

As with all conspiracy theory’s, Ave done a bit of digging with a few pals. Some are sceptical of the story. Some are saying the story was started by Everton fans who were narked  at the City game being postponed.
Come what May it will be what it will be 😁


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## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			3 will do nicely 😄.

Although 9 sounds better now you mention it. In Fergie's time they would have given utd 9 🤣
		
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only after it had gone to VAR. That said could you imagine VAR under Fergie


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## AmandaJR (Dec 31, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I appreciate that most have prefaced their remarks but I couldn't help noticing the word "alleged" was becoming a little less obvious.

And based on previous form it wouldn't be entirely surprising if true.

It just makes me uncomfortable when punishments are being demanded before the "csse" has been tried.
		
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Guilty as charged  I did get somewhat carried away demanding we remove their lungs


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 31, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Guilty as charged  I did get somewhat carried away demanding we remove their lungs 

Click to expand...

Would that have been without anaesthetic?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			As with all conspiracy theory’s, Ave done a bit of digging with a few pals. Some are sceptical of the story. Some are saying the story was started by Everton fans who were narked  at the City game being postponed.
Come what May it will be what it will be 😁
		
Click to expand...

When I 1st read it, my thoughts were a typical bitter bluenose Delta taxi driver rumour.

I hope its true for obvious reasons😉


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## SteveW86 (Dec 31, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Once again it seems some on here are prepared to accept an uncorroborated report from  an unknown journalist as fact.

Before demanding punishment for these players should we not wait for their guilt to be proven.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t be ridiculous, this is social media.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			When I 1st read it, my thoughts were a typical bitter bluenose Delta taxi driver rumour.

I hope its true for obvious reasons😉
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😉


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## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			😂😂😉
		
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/married-premier-league-star-breaks-23246407

Sounds better than the WhatsApp going around, hopefully Micheal Barrymore wasn't invited......


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## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/married-premier-league-star-breaks-23246407

Sounds better than the WhatsApp going around, hopefully Micheal Barrymore wasn't invited......
		
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sod it, the link won’t open the page.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 31, 2020)

All sounds a bit Blue Oyster Clubish!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			sod it, the link won’t open the page.
		
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It's been removed


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## Fade and Die (Dec 31, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's been removed
		
Click to expand...

I just snapped that link but the story has been pulled!


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			I just snapped that link but the story has been pulled!
		
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Someone's for the high jump tomorrow.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Someone's for the high jump tomorrow.
		
Click to expand...

And if only a little research is done into the source of the Kyle Walker story the credibility of the so called journalist becomes questionable.

Truly one big downside of the internet is the facility it provides to fantasists, dreamers, con artists and conspiracy theorists to post all sorts of rubbish and for some members of the public to spread this rubbish via social media.


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## Slime (Jan 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			And if only a little research is done into the source of the Kyle Walker story the credibility of the so called journalist becomes questionable.

Truly *one big downside of the internet is the facility it provides to fantasists, dreamers, con artists and conspiracy theorists to post all sorts of rubbish and for some members of the public to spread this rubbish via social media.*

Click to expand...

Correct.
It wasn't that long ago that it was suggested, on this very forum, that Mason Greenwood had recently committed rape, yet I've not heard any more about it.
Social media ................................. stick it!


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## AmandaJR (Jan 1, 2021)

Social Media has its place and can be great. Sadly some people seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trawling google/social media/internet for stories that suit their own narrative and then, when they find one, share it with gay abandonment but spend no extra time checking the source.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2021)

Slime said:



			Correct.
It wasn't that long ago that it was suggested, on this very forum, that Mason Greenwood had recently committed rape, yet I've not heard any more about it.
Social media ................................. stick it!
		
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Have a read back and see what people actually said about the whole incident - this is a form of social media and people will discuss rumours and ,  no one accused anyone , before people used to talk about in pubs etc or in papers etc etc 

As they said - today’s news is tomorrow’s chip paper 

Social media is a powerful tool and on the whole is used very well - there will always be the negative as there is with anuthing 

Only way to avoid it is to not take part in social media


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have a read back and see what people actually said about the whole incident - this is a form of social media and people will discuss rumours and ,  no one accused anyone , before people used to talk about in pubs etc or in papers etc etc

As they said - today’s news is tomorrow’s chip paper

Social media is a powerful tool and on the whole is used very well - there will always be the negative as there is with anuthing

Only way to avoid it is to not take part in social media
		
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Post #4432.

By that stage you had dropped any use of the word alleged and clearly referred to Walker being guilty.

All this could be avoided, not by avoiding social media but, by some being a little less keen to believe rubbish produced too easily by bloggers (I would never refer to this guy as a journalist).


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Post #4432.

By that stage you had dropped any use of the word alleged and clearly referred to Walker being guilty.

All this could be avoided, not by avoiding social media but, by some being a little less keen to believe rubbish produced too easily by bloggers (I would never refer to this guy as a journalist).
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t clearly refer to anything , it’s people discussing a potential issue that was being talked about on social media , it’s up to you or indeed anyone if they chose to believe there is any substance behind it.

 It was/is rumours posted on many outlets and a discussion point in regards someone who four times already had broken Covid restrictions. 

It’s not about “guilty” - it’s just discussions - police , courts etc , they determine guilt , we just give opinions based on what we witness , read or watch

People will always discuss various rumours from infidelity, law breaking , sexuality , transfers , injuries - that’s life and it’s been going on for decades - up to you what you want to believe , doesn’t mean people can’t talk about it. People can have a chat about the Lancaster on the moon if they so wish.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I didn’t clearly refer to anything , it’s people discussing a potential issue that was being talked about on social media , it’s up to you or indeed anyone if they chose to believe there is any substance behind it.

It was/is rumours posted on many outlets and a discussion point in regards someone who four times already had broken Covid restrictions.

It’s not about “guilty” - it’s just discussions - police , courts etc , they determine guilt , we just give opinions based on what we witness , read or watch

People will always discuss various rumours from infidelity, law breaking , sexuality , transfers , injuries - that’s life and it’s been going on for decades - up to you what you want to believe , doesn’t mean people can’t talk about it. People can have a chat about the Lancaster on the moon if they so wish.
		
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Or alternatively you could grow up and stop acting like some 14 year old shut in his bedroom


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Or alternatively you could grow up and stop acting like some 14 year old shut in his bedroom
		
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Yes because that’s exactly what I was doing when we were discussing the potential actions of a footballer who has been know to commit a number of stupid acts throughout the lockdown. Feel free to ignore any further posts if you unable to respond politely.


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## AmandaJR (Jan 1, 2021)

Phil - maybe in future before you post links to news stories you should spend a bit of time researching the source and/or just sit tight for a while and judge its accuracy. You cannot post things on this forum and others without being a part of the problem of spreading fake news.

Mud sticks. Next time Kyle Walker is alleged to have transgressed many will recall this (let's now assume) fake news story and refer to his previous indiscretions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Phil - maybe in future before you post links to news stories you should spend a bit of time researching the source and/or just sit tight for a while and judge its accuracy. You cannot post things on this forum and others without being a part of the problem of spreading fake news.

Mud sticks. Next time Kyle Walker is alleged to have transgressed many will recall this (let's now assume) fake news story and refer to his previous indiscretions.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but it’s a forum when things get discussed - the story is still out there on various outlets all over the place and it’s a story when it was sent around was very believable because of the player in question , ( 4 previous breaches I believe it is ) and I’m still unaware that it’s been dismissed and I certainly don’t know many on social media who research the source - when it was on various different outlets .


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes because that’s exactly what I was doing when we were discussing the potential actions of a footballer who has been know to commit a number of stupid acts throughout the lockdown. Feel free to ignore any further posts if you unable to respond politely.
		
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How much effort would it have required to research the source of this "story"?


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2021)

I see the FA have drawn the line for the FA Cup and said that any club who has 14 available players must fulfill their tie

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ird-round-cup-ties-must-played-even-14-covid/

ps hope Sam Wallace is an ok sauce


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2021)

Also on the subject of FA Cup its great to see Marine are getting the financial benefit of making the 3rd round and not losing it due to Covid. When news that they were allowed no fans was announced they decided to do virtual match tickets with some raffle prizes. Spurs have added prizes and encouraged their fans to take part too, well done to them for supporting this.

Seems theyve sold 2,400 of the 3,185 capacity already and are hoping now to sell out. Theyre already at their "highest attendance"

https://marinefc.ktckts.com/merchandise/mne2021facr3/marine-v-tottenham-hotspur-virtual-match-ticket


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			I see the FA have drawn the line for the FA Cup and said that any club who has 14 available players must fulfill their tie

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ird-round-cup-ties-must-played-even-14-covid/

ps hope Sam Wallace is an ok sauce
		
Click to expand...

Will certainly be interesting to see what teams the Prem Clubs put out 


fundy said:



			Also on the subject of FA Cup its great to see Marine are getting the financial benefit of making the 3rd round and not losing it due to Covid. When news that they were allowed no fans was announced they decided to do virtual match tickets with some raffle prizes. Spurs have added prizes and encouraged their fans to take part too, well done to them for supporting this.

Seems theyve sold 2,400 of the 3,185 capacity already and are hoping now to sell out. Theyre already at their "highest attendance"

https://marinefc.ktckts.com/merchandise/mne2021facr3/marine-v-tottenham-hotspur-virtual-match-ticket

Click to expand...

that is great to see 👍


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 1, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Phil - maybe in future before you post links to news stories you should spend a bit of time researching the source and/or just sit tight for a while and judge its accuracy. You cannot post things on this forum and others without being a part of the problem of spreading fake news.

Mud sticks. Next time Kyle Walker is alleged to have transgressed many will recall this (let's now assume) fake news story and refer to his previous indiscretions.
		
Click to expand...

Obviously can’t wait to spread anything negative about opposition players,see it all the time on social media.


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## IainP (Jan 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			I see the FA have drawn the line for the FA Cup and said that any club who has 14 available players must fulfill their tie

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ird-round-cup-ties-must-played-even-14-covid/

ps hope Sam Wallace is an ok *sauce*

Click to expand...

Red, brown, or none?

@sausagesandwichgame
😉


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2021)

IainP said:



			Red, brown, or none?

@sausagesandwichgame
😉
		
Click to expand...


was red on the bacon just now


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## AmandaJR (Jan 1, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Obviously can’t wait to spread anything negative about opposition players,see it all the time on social media.
		
Click to expand...

Where does he/they even get the stories from? I'm genuinely intrigued (well sort of). What do you type into google "indiscretions by any premiership player who doesn't play for Liverpool"?? Just a bit weird for me...


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			was red on the bacon just now 

Click to expand...

Always red on bacon, brown on sausages!


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 1, 2021)

I go red on bread, an brown on toast for whatever I have. Its the future 😃


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 1, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Where does he/they even get the stories from? I'm genuinely intrigued (well sort of). What do you type into google "indiscretions by any premiership player who doesn't play for Liverpool"?? Just a bit weird for me...
		
Click to expand...

Think it was actually trending on Twitter.
The problem is people believe and spread rumours rather than think that maybe it’s BS.
All depends who the rumours about.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Where does he/they even get the stories from? I'm genuinely intrigued (well sort of). What do you type into google "indiscretions by any premiership player who doesn't play for Liverpool"?? Just a bit weird for me...
		
Click to expand...

When “stories” like these break you don’t need to search for anything - they are in every football news feed , on Facebook , football forums , what’s app groups etc. They become the top tweet for people you follow or news feeds that people follow. It was tending on Twitter - and because it was Kyle Walker and everything that has happened this year many will keep it trending 

Same with when Tashyboy got the text message from somewhere. Yesterday someone posted it on a whats app group - just Google Kyle Walker yesterday and it was there


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 1, 2021)

Luddite here then - not in my FB feeds and only one forum I frequent  Trending on Twitter - I swear I cringe everytime I hear "hashtag..."


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			I see the FA have drawn the line for the FA Cup and said that any club who has 14 available players must fulfill their tie

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ird-round-cup-ties-must-played-even-14-covid/

ps hope Sam Wallace is an ok sauce
		
Click to expand...

I believe Tim Howard, ex Everton, was interviewed on sky yesterday and he explained how in the MLS they have a similar minimum player available set up. Can't remember what the number was but the concept was the same. Perhaps something the PL may need to look at?


----------



## Imurg (Jan 1, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Luddite here then - not in my FB feeds and only one forum I frequent  Trending on Twitter - I swear I cringe everytime I hear "hashtag..."
		
Click to expand...

#dontknowwhatyouremissing
#maybeyoudo


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2021)

5.7 for Yerry Mina


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 1, 2021)

I don't have a BT subscription but managed to get a password off a relative for tonight, big mistake 😭. Anyway, Steve Mcmanaman as a pundit 😱. Is he always that bad or did he have an off night? Just awful.


----------



## DanFST (Jan 1, 2021)

Everton aren't very good.


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't have a BT subscription but managed to get a password off a relative for tonight, big mistake 😭. Anyway, Steve Mcmanaman as a pundit 😱. Is he always that bad or did he have an off night? Just awful.
		
Click to expand...

hes the worst of the lot imo, the reason mute buttons were made for


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't have a BT subscription but managed to get a password off a relative for tonight, big mistake 😭. Anyway, Steve Mcmanaman as a pundit 😱. Is he always that bad or did he have an off night? Just awful.
		
Click to expand...

He is crap. Michael Owen is only a fraction better. Both have mugged a pundit career for too long


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Everton aren't very good.
		
Click to expand...

Awful match with 2 awful teams that got the result it deserved.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Awful match with 2 awful teams that got the result it deserved.
		
Click to expand...

Thought we looked a lot better last 20 mins but I missed entire first half


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## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't have a BT subscription but managed to get a password off a relative for tonight, big mistake 😭. Anyway, Steve Mcmanaman as a pundit 😱. Is he always that bad or did he have an off night? Just awful.
		
Click to expand...

Bumped into Macca in Monaco when City got battered by them in the champs league when the had a fantastic team. Lo and behold the day after I bumped into him again at the airport and we had a good 10 min natter. He was really nice. However the City fans were giving him some serious grief. Apparently they took offence at him taking a nice fat pay heck every week and doing nowt in a City shirt.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Thought we looked a lot better last 20 mins but I missed entire first half
		
Click to expand...

Well done only watching 20 minutes, the other 73 was shocking!


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2021)

Moyes' record against the big clubs is poor but he always seems to beat the rubbish teams quite easily 🤭🤭


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Moyes' record against the big clubs is poor but he always seems to beat poor teams quite easily 🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

Nearly, first time he’s beaten us at Goodison since he left.

Edited your post before it gets reported.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Nearly, first time he’s beaten us at Goodison since he left.

Edited your post before it gets reported.

Click to expand...

😁😁😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			😁😁😁
		
Click to expand...

I’d hate @PhilTheFragger or @patricks148 or any other mod see the bad language and give you a warning.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’d hate @PhilTheFragger or @patricks148 or any other mod see the bad language and give you a warning.

Click to expand...

Midnight Mass


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Midnight Mass
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂


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## PhilTheFragger (Jan 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’d hate @PhilTheFragger or @patricks148 or any other mod see the bad language and give you a warning.

Click to expand...

Too slow, I’ve slapped him down

Now repent 👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Too slow, I’ve slapped him down

Now repent 👍
		
Click to expand...

You can’t help some people Phil.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Too slow, I’ve slapped him down

Now repent 👍
		
Click to expand...

Enjoyed it😁😁


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Well done only watching 20 minutes, the other 73 was shocking!
		
Click to expand...

Surprised you didn't least trouble Randolph considering he is our back up

Dawson turning out to be a shrewd signing. 2 clean sheets in his first 2 games


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## Slime (Jan 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have a read back and see what people actually said about the whole incident - this is a form of social media and people will discuss rumours and ,  *no one accused anyone* , before people used to talk about in pubs etc or in papers etc etc

As they said - today’s news is tomorrow’s chip paper

Social media is a powerful tool and on the whole is used very well - there will always be the negative as there is with anuthing

Only way to avoid it is to not take part in social media
		
Click to expand...

I didn't use the word accused, I said suggested.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Surprised you didn't least trouble Randolph considering he is our back up

Dawson turning out to be a shrewd signing. 2 clean sheets in his first 2 games
		
Click to expand...

We were awful, simple as that, can’t complain about losing, but I can genuinely say we were both poor.


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## Slime (Jan 1, 2021)

Now I just laugh every time United get a penalty .............................. because I know what you're all thinking.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			We were awful, simple as that, can’t complain about losing, but I can genuinely say we were both poor.
		
Click to expand...

I thought West Ham looked the better side but if it had finished 0-0 no one could’ve complained.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2021)

Slime said:



			Now I just laugh every time United get a penalty .............................. because I know what you're all thinking. 

Click to expand...

We know what you’re thinking too 😀


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought West Ham looked the better side but if it had finished 0-0 no one could’ve complained.
		
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Defo agree with the 0-0

The subs changed the game with our attacking 3 change really gave more a cutting edge 

Im really impressed with our defending in a back 4 past 2 games


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## Captainron (Jan 1, 2021)

McGuire is a donkey (like Kane)


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2021)

Oliver is defo on under 2.5 cards here.


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## Fade and Die (Jan 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Defo agree with the 0-0

The subs changed the game with our attacking 3 change really gave more a cutting edge

Im really impressed with our defending in a back 4 past 2 games
		
Click to expand...

When you consider that we have played 3 games in 6 days and Everton last played 6 days ago.They are the team in form too.I was expecting us to get done by 3 or 4 today,because of tiredness.

Take 3 points away from home anytime, especially that far up the motorway. We normally give up once the bus goes past watford. Shame we never went for the jugular against Brighton.


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Oliver is defo on under 2.5 cards here.
		
Click to expand...


card numbers been getting lower and lower last few weeks, am sure theyre under orders to reduce the amount theres been

theres your 3rd


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			card numbers been getting lower and lower last few weeks, am sure theyre under orders to reduce the amount theres been

theres your 3rd 

Click to expand...

and 4th lol


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			When you consider that we have played 3 games in 6 days and Everton last played 6 days ago.They are the team in form too.I was expecting us to get done by 3 or 4 today,because of tiredness.

Take 3 points away from home anytime, especially that far up the motorway. We normally give up once the bus goes past watford. Shame we never went for the jugular against Brighton.
		
Click to expand...

Fully agree

Our players have worked hard over the Xmas period. 5 points in 3 games is remarkable with the level of rotation 

Everton got lucky with the extra rest but I'm glad we matched it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Fully agree

Our players have worked hard over the Xmas period. 5 points in 3 games is remarkable with the level of rotation

Everton got lucky with the extra rest but I'm glad we matched it
		
Click to expand...

Matched what? We were lethargic, slow, turning back on ourselves. We never made yous work, it looked like we’d played the extra game.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			card numbers been getting lower and lower last few weeks, am sure theyre under orders to reduce the amount theres been

theres your 3rd 

Click to expand...

He must’ve cashed out because there should’ve been at least 3 from the 2nd to the 3rd 😆


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## Orikoru (Jan 2, 2021)

Good first half for us there. Leeds knocking the ball about without threatening, then give it away twice and we get a goal each time. Second half could go either way though with us.

I'm sick of Bergwijn being awful in front of goal. He missed an absolute sitter in that half. Just keep it down and he probably scores, absolutely skies it. He needs to have a look at Son's finishing and learn something.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Good first half for us there. Leeds knocking the ball about without threatening, then give it away twice and we get a goal each time. Second half could go either way though with us.

I'm sick of Bergwijn being awful in front of goal. He missed an absolute sitter in that half. Just keep it down and he probably scores, absolutely skies it. He needs to have a look at Son's finishing and learn something.
		
Click to expand...

Lucky first half 😁

That was never a pen. It was outside the box. And there should have been a free kick to Leeds in the build up to the very good second goal. 

VAR Useless again.


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## Orikoru (Jan 2, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Lucky first half 😁

That was never a pen. It was outside the box. And there should have been a free kick to Leeds in the build up to the very good second goal.

VAR Useless again.
		
Click to expand...

There's a rule that says it contact starts outside but continues into the box, then it's a penalty. I imagine they went with that. (Don't know why the idiot Walton didn't suggest that at half time though.) Or, it was close enough to the line that they didn't feel it was clear and obvious to change the ref's decision. It was very borderline and I wouldn't have complained if it was given as a free kick instead.

Not sure about the free kick to Leeds, I didn't see that. I hope you don't mean Hojbjerg dumping that feller on his backside to win the ball because that was a proper challenge. 👍🏻


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2021)

What the heck is going on with VAR - there appears to be a shift recently - they used to spend ages on the decision , spend as long as possible on Offsides and then send the ref to the screen for clear decisions thah were wrong but now - offsides you don’t see the lines , refs have stopped going to the screen and taking seconds on close calls 

That penalty for Man Utd - it took one long to see that Pogba both kicked the back of the defenders leg and then tripped himself up - yet they didn’t even send him back to the screen where he could have seen for himself - that’s the exact reason why they brought in VAR. You can see why the ref gave it but how they couldn’t see it wasn’t a penalty I’ll never know.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That penalty for Man Utd - it took one long to see that Pogba both kicked the back of the defenders leg and then tripped himself up - yet they didn’t even send him back to the screen where he could have seen for himself - that’s the exact reason why they brought in VAR. You can see why the ref gave it but how they couldn’t see it wasn’t a penalty I’ll never know.
		
Click to expand...

Differences of opinions from different people is why decisions like that are still being made. I think it was a penalty for the challenge on Pogba. Contact from the defender on to Pogba's left foot caused him to trip himself up. Therefore it's a penalty in my opinion.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Differences of opinions from different people is why decisions like that are still being made. I think it was a penalty for the challenge on Pogba. Contact from the defender on to Pogba's left foot caused him to trip himself up. Therefore it's a penalty in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

The contact on the left foot was Pogba kicking the back of the defenders leg ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345123061926912000
Also seen another video where Pogba was telling Shaw to dive


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345140494742007811


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2021)

https://www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/55515555?__twitter_impression=true

I must apologise I haven’t researched the source

Is it time for players to serve long bans for this


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The contact on the left foot was Pogba kicking the back of the defenders leg ?

Also seen another video where Pogba was telling Shaw to dive
		
Click to expand...

I'm not interested in getting into a debate with you about it. I think it was a penalty, you don't, that's fine. I was simply pointing out that differences of opinion lead to decisions being made that you disagree with. Nothing further to discuss.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345348387915370498
Well said 👏👏

Only have to read the replies though to see how stupid some are


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## Orikoru (Jan 2, 2021)

A rare comfortable win for Spurs in the end. In fairness, for the last several years we've always done better against open teams than the ones who sit back. Like Bournemouth for example. I think Leeds are like the new Bournemouth in many ways.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What the heck is going on with VAR - there appears to be a shift recently - they used to spend ages on the decision , spend as long as possible on Offsides and then send the ref to the screen for clear decisions thah were wrong but now - offsides you don’t see the lines , refs have stopped going to the screen and taking seconds on close calls

That penalty for Man Utd - it took one long to see that Pogba both kicked the back of the defenders leg and then tripped himself up - yet they didn’t even send him back to the screen where he could have seen for himself - that’s the exact reason why they brought in VAR. You can see why the ref gave it but *how they couldn’t see it wasn’t a penalty I’ll never know.*

Click to expand...

Because it was a penalty?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			Because it was a penalty?
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345123061926912000
where is the foul on Pogba considering he clearly trips himself up ?


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## Orikoru (Jan 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345123061926912000
where is the foul on Pogba considering he clearly trips himself up ?
		
Click to expand...

His left foot does clip the other player's calf which is what sends it across into his own calf. People generally don't trip over their own legs while running unless they're the clumsiest person alive. Not saying that's enough for a foul or not, I'm just saying you can see that there. I don't think it's a foul because Pogba has him arm across the defender's throat which arguably is a foul the other way.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345123061926912000
*where is the foul on Pogba considering he clearly trips himself up ?*

Click to expand...

Seriously?
The defender puts his leg across Pogba, therefore deflecting Pogba's foot onto the back of his other leg.
Pogba was clearly impeded. His 'tripping himself up' was totally unavoidable and was a result of the defender impeding him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			Seriously?
The defender puts his leg across Pogba, therefore deflecting Pogba's foot onto the back of his other leg.
Pogba was clearly impeded. His 'tripping himself up' was totally unavoidable and was a result of the defender impeding him.
		
Click to expand...

Really ? So Pogba tripped himself up because the defenders leg was in the way ?  I can’t see anywhere in that video where the defender puts his leg across Pogba ? 

Never a penalty in a millions years but it would explain why Man Utd have had so many - there is no touch from the defender on Pogba , none


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ? So Pogba tripped himself up because the defenders leg was in the way ?  I can’t see anywhere in that video where the defender puts his leg across Pogba ?

Never a penalty in a millions years but* it would explain why Man Utd have had so many* - there is no touch from the defender on Pogba , none
		
Click to expand...


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## Orikoru (Jan 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ? So Pogba tripped himself up because the defenders leg was in the way ?  I can’t see anywhere in that video where the defender puts his leg across Pogba ?

Never a penalty in a millions years but it would explain why Man Utd have had so many - there is no touch from the defender on Pogba , none
		
Click to expand...

You can't say there isn't contact on the defender unless you haven't watched it closely enough. He does trip on the defender's calf first. But I admit the defender didn't do a lot wrong.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You can't say there isn't contact on the defender unless you haven't watched it closely enough. He does trip on the defender's calf first. But I admit the defender didn't do a lot wrong.
		
Click to expand...

As I said “ no touch from the defender on Pogba” - so the defender didn’t make the touch , Pogba clearly clipped the back of the defender which then tripped himself up - never a foul , the defender is just running for the ball , no change of direction , didn’t even attempt to tackle - how it’s not overturned I’m amazed.

It’s supposed to be a contact sport - the other day Darlow just grabbed Mane by the leg - stayed on his feet and got nothing, Pogba goes tumbling down tripping himself up and gets a penalty


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As I said “ no touch from the defender on Pogba” - so the defender didn’t make the touch , Pogba clearly clipped the back of the defender which then tripped himself up - never a foul , the defender is just running for the ball , no change of direction , didn’t even attempt to tackle - how it’s not overturned I’m amazed.

It’s supposed to be a contact sport - the other day Darlow just grabbed Mane by the leg - stayed on his feet and got nothing, Pogba goes tumbling down tripping himself up and gets a penalty
		
Click to expand...

If only every player was as honest as Mane 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂


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## Dando (Jan 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			Seriously?
The defender puts his leg across Pogba, therefore deflecting Pogba's foot onto the back of his other leg.
Pogba was clearly impeded. His 'tripping himself up' was totally unavoidable and was a result of the defender impeding him.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Junior (Jan 2, 2021)

*****BREAKING NEWS******

Footballer in diving shocker


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## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2021)

Junior said:



			*****BREAKING NEWS******

Footballer in diving shocker
		
Click to expand...

is this you admitting pogba is a footballer after all? 😁😁


----------



## fundy (Jan 2, 2021)

What a goal that is Kieran Tierney


----------



## fundy (Jan 2, 2021)

The first was a great individual goal, the second a great team goal 

ESR and Saka integral to it all


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 2, 2021)

Loving this. This is much better. Amazing what happens when you don't pick certain players.

Perhaps we only play well in the snow?


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## USER1999 (Jan 2, 2021)

Lovely finish. ESR was unlucky, but Laca, spot on.


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## USER1999 (Jan 2, 2021)

4. This is pretty much more than we have scored all season in one game.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 2, 2021)

Think big Sam may have bitten off more than he can chew with west brom


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## fundy (Jan 2, 2021)

Time for Sam to worry about his own shower rather than commenting on others maybe  Wonder if he thinks were still relegation contenders for him now lol


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## USER1999 (Jan 2, 2021)

Don't like AMN and Ceballos in tights.


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## USER1999 (Jan 2, 2021)

Just as it was going so well, on comes Willian, although surely even he can't screw this up.


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## fundy (Jan 2, 2021)

This should be Willians lot for the rest of the season, maybe coming on with 20 mins to go!


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## USER1999 (Jan 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			This should be Willians lot for the rest of the season, maybe coming on with 20 mins to go!
		
Click to expand...

Only if we are 4, 0 up, and that will limit his playing time a bit.


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## Orikoru (Jan 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Think big Sam may have bitten off more than he can chew with west brom
		
Click to expand...

It's amazing to think there's actually another team even worse than them.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 2, 2021)

Hopefully Big Sam won't last much longer and this will put an end to his managerial career. Then he can go off to talk nonsense to the sun readers on talk sport.


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## Fade and Die (Jan 2, 2021)

Honestly how thick are footballers? posting it on Instagram too!...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metr...-covid-regulations-at-christmas-13837031/amp/


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## pauljames87 (Jan 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's amazing to think there's actually another team even worse than them.
		
Click to expand...

Sheffield United are awful tho.

Proper rubbish team


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Sheffield United are awful tho.

Proper rubbish team
		
Click to expand...

think I heard a stat yesterday saying most of sheff utds game they won last year were by just 1 goal so they were not that far off being rammel.
That said I thought last year they were excellent and don’t think anyone forecast them being this poor. Any Sheff Utd care to put a finger on what’s gone wrong.
Edit, could a lot of it be down to the keeper going back to Man Utd. He had a stonking season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			think I heard a stat yesterday saying most of sheff utds game they won last year were by just 1 goal so they were not that far off being rammel.
That said I thought last year they were excellent and don’t think anyone forecast them being this poor. Any Sheff Utd care to put a finger on what’s gone wrong.
Edit, could a lot of it be down to the keeper going back to Man Utd. He had a stonking season.
		
Click to expand...

8 goals in 17 games has to be a pretty big part of it. Most years the teams at the bottom can't score goals. Sometimes it's about letting bucketloads in as well but the lack of goals is usually the primary reason. 

So far, 4 out of the bottom 5 are a good way clear of being the lowest goalscorers, Brighton being the exception. 

They were excellent last year, it's a shame that this year is going how it is.


----------



## Slime (Jan 3, 2021)

Wow.
I wasn't expecting this.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2021)

City have been ruthless but Chelsea have been shocking.

Mendy better than Kepa?? I’m not sure.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			City have been ruthless but Chelsea have been shocking.

Mendy better than Kepa?? I’m not sure.
		
Click to expand...

Lampard better than Sarri?? Im not sure


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345773263159496706
VAR continue to make people scratch their heads

If it was anyone else but Lampard on charge Abramovich would have sacked them by now - biggest summer spenders in Europe


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 3, 2021)

Brilliant by City this.


Even better by the bookies who crazily offered 6/5 City and 5/2 City/City 😃


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 3, 2021)

Can anyone explain how the referee penalises the goalkeeper for picking up a back pass and then gives the freekick outside the penalty area?


----------



## fundy (Jan 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can anyone explain how the referee penalises the goalkeeper for picking up a back pass and then gives the freekick outside the penalty area?
		
Click to expand...

the easy answer is Taylor got it (along with other decisions) wrong, should be a indirect FK from where the keeper touches it


----------



## Jensen (Jan 3, 2021)

A lot of the Chelsea players have given up. No urgency or desire to chase and do the ugly, hard stuff.


----------



## SteveW86 (Jan 3, 2021)




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## fundy (Jan 3, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



View attachment 34284

Click to expand...

Arsenal a big club, Liverpool not. Looks like thats a bit selective lol


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			Arsenal a big club, Liverpool not. Looks like thats a bit selective lol
		
Click to expand...

He hasn’t played against LPool for Utd yet.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2021)

Wonder if the chelsea fans are as worried about Lampards future as they were about Artetas a few weeks ago?


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## BiMGuy (Jan 3, 2021)

Where are the media's calls for Lampard to change the way Chelsea play? Man City made Chelsea look like a pub team for most of that game. 

Lampard is fast proving what a fraud he is. Hes somehow turning good players into poor players.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Where are the media's calls for Lampard to change the way Chelsea play? Man City made Chelsea look like a pub team for most of that game.

Lampard is fast proving what a fraud he is. Hes somehow turning good players into poor players.
		
Click to expand...

They might have a chance away to my mob next but then they have Leicester away. Think they could be struggling for a CL spot this season. Think Lampard will be given the season to sort it out but if he spends big in the summer and they struggle then I don't think the future will be rosy


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## pauljames87 (Jan 3, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			They might have a chance away to my mob next but then they have Leicester away. Think they could be struggling for a CL spot this season. Think Lampard will be given the season to sort it out but if he spends big in the summer and they struggle then I don't think the future will be rosy
		
Click to expand...

Apart from West ham they haven't beaten a top 10 side all season

That says a lot ..

Their wins have been

Burnley 
Leeds
West ham
Newcastle 
Sheffield United 
Palace 
Brighton 

You except more for the money spent


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Apart from West ham they haven't beaten a top 10 side all season

That says a lot ..

Their wins have been

Burnley
Leeds
West ham
Newcastle
Sheffield United
Palace
Brighton

You except more for the money spent
		
Click to expand...

I'm always optimistic (until the ref blows the first whistle) we can beat the noisy neighbours. FA cup next but could be a good time to play them


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2021)

Thomas Tuchel is available. 🤔


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2021)

Very surprised with Chelsea today. It wasn’t just that City played well, and after 10 mins until the De Bryune miss I thought City looked rammel. But what is Chelsea’s style of play. When they had the ball, the man on the ball looked like he never had many options. I would be a bit narked with Chelsea if that was my team. That aside. I have a feeling of bog Frank was not a Chelsea legend he might be helping Jimmy Floyd hasselbank at Burton Albion now.
The title race and champs league spots are looking interesting now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Apart from West ham they haven't beaten a top 10 side all season

That says a lot ..

Their wins have been

Burnley
Leeds
West ham
Newcastle
Sheffield United
Palace
Brighton

You except more for the money spent
		
Click to expand...

The game might have gone a bit differently if they were awarded the penalty they should have had


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## pauljames87 (Jan 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The game might have gone a bit differently if they were awarded the penalty they should have had
		
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Doesn't excuse the rest of the season


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Doesn't excuse the rest of the season
		
Click to expand...

No doubt they haven’t been where they expect to be but the game today turned on that moment and could have been a totally different outlook if that penalty was given


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## pauljames87 (Jan 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No doubt they haven’t been where they expect to be but the game today turned on that moment and could have been a totally different outlook if that penalty was given
		
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No gaurentee they would have scored it tho


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			No gaurentee they would have scored it tho
		
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Correct but a chance to score an early goal at home against 1 of the best sides in Europe shouldve been allowed, given some of the pens we've seen given this season, it was a stone waller in comparison.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 3, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Correct but a chance to score an early goal at home against 1 of the best sides in Europe shouldve been allowed, given some of the pens we've seen given this season, it was a stone waller in comparison.
		
Click to expand...

By their own record the game would have ended with the same outcome 

Cheslea don't look good


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			By their own record the game would have ended with the same outcome 

Cheslea don't look good
		
Click to expand...

Fortunately games aren't decide in previous records etc. 

I think it's a valid point that the result  MIGHT have been different had a pen been given. We'll never know but it's good to debate it.

I also agree that Chelsea don't look good.

Werner looks like a poor Fernando Torres at the minute, a shadow of his former self.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*No doubt they haven’t been where they expect to be* but the game today turned on that moment and could have been a totally different outlook if that penalty was given
		
Click to expand...

That's a very interesting comment and has got me thinking.
I wonder how many of the 20 teams are where they expected to be at the turn of the year ....................... not many.
Certainly not my team!
I would suggest that maybe seven teams are not where they would reasonably have been expected to be.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			That's a very interesting comment and has got me thinking.
I wonder how many of the 20 teams are where they expected to be at the turn of the year ....................... not many.
Certainly not my team!
*I would suggest that maybe seven teams are not where they would reasonably have been expected to be.*

Click to expand...

I'm not even sure it's as many as seven. To me it's only a couple of teams that aren't around where I'd expect them to be.

Arsenal would expect to be closer to the Top 4. And Sheff Utd would expect to be higher (based on last season's results). Apart from that I'm struggling to spot many teams that are way out of position. Wolves possibly a few places higher, and Villa a few places lower, but that's about it. Everyone else is around where I'd expect them to be.


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## 4LEX (Jan 3, 2021)

Lampard was a bad appointment, just like Ole has been at Utd. You don't give former players time to learn on the job at top clubs unless you're settling for mediocrity or playing the lottery.

The table at the moment is very fickle, it's a weird season. Chelsea have dropped 14 points in 6 games which is crazy. I still think they've got the players to finish Top 4.

City still didn't impresss me too much today, better side yes but a slow start and they look to have no indentity. Bizzare formation that won't work long term. Untill they get a world class striker they won't win a thing.

Really impressed by Arteta to bring himself back from a true crisis, trust youth and move forwards. He's such a good manager he just needs backing. You can't run a club when your highest earner is on the sofa having a laugh. It destroys the morale. He needs to bin Ozil, Pepe, Xhaka and a few others. Arsenal are years away from challenging anyway.

And for Utd.....can't even comment. Never seen such a high quality squad playing so badly and having so much luck. Still a counter attacking side that let Villa run the game at home and got lucky with a dodgy penalty. After being second best to Wolves and getting lucky with a deflection. A side joint top and their number 9 gets his first goal from open play in January


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Lampard was a bad appointment, just like Ole has been at Utd. You don't give former players time to learn on the job at top clubs unless you're settling for mediocrity or playing the lottery.

The table at the moment is very fickle, it's a weird season. Chelsea have dropped 14 points in 6 games which is crazy. I still think they've got the players to finish Top 4.

City still didn't impresss me too much today, better side yes but a slow start and they look to have no indentity. Bizzare formation that won't work long term. Untill they get a world class striker they won't win a thing.

Really impressed by Arteta to bring himself back from a true crisis, trust youth and move forwards. He's such a good manager he just needs backing. You can't run a club when your highest earner is on the sofa having a laugh. It destroys the morale. He needs to bin Ozil, Pepe, Xhaka and a few others. Arsenal are years away from challenging anyway.

*And for Utd.....can't even comment. Never seen such a high quality squad playing so badly and having so much luck. *Still a counter attacking side that let Villa run the game at home and got lucky with a dodgy penalty. After being second best to Wolves and getting lucky with a deflection. A side joint top and their number 9 gets his first goal from open play in January 

Click to expand...

I can almost taste the bitterness and the fear.


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## Paperboy (Jan 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			I can almost taste the bitterness and the fear. 

Click to expand...

Pretty sure he said he was an United fan, but could bevwrong.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can anyone explain how the referee penalises the goalkeeper for picking up a back pass and then gives the freekick outside the penalty area?
		
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Just asking but if they had scored from this free kick could VAR disallow it ?
It was taken from the wrong place and so a clear and obvious error by the ref.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just asking but if they had scored from this free kick could VAR disallow it ?
It was taken from the wrong place and so a clear and obvious error by the ref.
		
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I'm guessing no. In the same vein as scoring from an incorrectly awarded corner.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 4, 2021)

4LEX said:



*Lampard was a bad appointment, just like Ole has been at Utd. You don't give former players time to learn on the job at top clubs unless you're settling for mediocrity or playing the lottery.*

The table at the moment is very fickle, it's a weird season. Chelsea have dropped 14 points in 6 games which is crazy. I still think they've got the players to finish Top 4.

City still didn't impresss me too much today, better side yes but a slow start and they look to have no indentity. Bizzare formation that won't work long term. Untill they get a world class striker they won't win a thing.

*Really impressed by Arteta *to bring himself back from a true crisis, trust youth and move forwards. He's such a good manager he just needs backing. You can't run a club when your highest earner is on the sofa having a laugh. It destroys the morale. He needs to bin Ozil, Pepe, Xhaka and a few others. Arsenal are years away from challenging anyway.

And for Utd.....can't even comment. Never seen such a high quality squad playing so badly and having so much luck. Still a counter attacking side that let Villa run the game at home and got lucky with a dodgy penalty. After being second best to Wolves and getting lucky with a deflection. A side joint top and their number 9 gets his first goal from open play in January 

Click to expand...

So to clarify. Employing an ex player with little experience is a bad idea unless it's arteta who is below both ole and Lampard in the league......


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## SteveW86 (Jan 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just asking but if they had scored from this free kick could VAR disallow it ?
It was taken from the wrong place and so a clear and obvious error by the ref.
		
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I’m pretty sure free kicks don’t get taken from exactly the right place quite often. Does seem a bit strange though in this case, but as it was an indirect free kick I doubt the metre or so really mattered.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			I’m pretty sure free kicks don’t get taken from exactly the right place quite often. Does seem a bit strange though in this case, but as it was an indirect free kick I doubt the metre or so really mattered.
		
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I think the Chelsea player pulled it away to get a better angle?


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 4, 2021)

So should clubs be penalised for having a game postponed due to CV19 and it comes to light some/any of their players have ignored the rules etc?
Man City and Fulham come to mind...


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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So should clubs be penalised for having a game postponed due to CV19 and it comes to light some/any of their players have ignored the rules etc?
Man City and Fulham come to mind...
		
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Yes a standard forfeit  of 3pts and  3-0 win for the affected team


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So should clubs be penalised for having a game postponed due to CV19 and it comes to light some/any of their players have ignored the rules etc?
Man City and Fulham come to mind...
		
Click to expand...

It’s a difficult one. Some players have broken the rules by being complete and utter idiots. Yet have not caught Covid and have not contributed to the cancellation of games.
Some players have behaved. Caught Covid causing the cancellation of games.

That aside the Uraguay players union are supporting Cavani and asking for the ban to be lifted


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So should clubs be penalised for having a game postponed due to CV19 and it comes to light some/any of their players have ignored the rules etc?
Man City and Fulham come to mind...
		
Click to expand...

Depends on if those breaking the rules have caught Covid which has then resulted in the games being cancelled 

The bare minimum should be any player who has breached Covid regulations should serve match bans just like they did in Scotland


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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It’s a difficult one. Some players have broken the rules by being complete and utter idiots. Yet have not caught Covid and have not contributed to the cancellation of games.
Some players have behaved. Caught Covid causing the cancellation of games.

That aside the Uraguay players union are supporting Cavani and asking for the ban to be lifted
		
Click to expand...

It needs a zero tolerance approach. 

Players will catch Covid, its impossible to not catch it but if a player breaks the rules he is compromising his clubs bubble.

Make it clear that it's not acceptable to ignore covid restrictions. It really is that simple.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes a standard forfeit  of 3pts and  3-0 win for the affected team
		
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Per offender I would say. Make the punishment affect the whole team, they might not be so keen to do it then.


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## fundy (Jan 4, 2021)

I see Liverpool have no out and out centre halves in their line up tonight, have thought that wouldve been a good approach for Arsenal at various points the last few years lol


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2021)

City have four women from there team out with Covid. Hope they didn’t spend Christmas at Mendys house 😁


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 4, 2021)

Another player clearly planning for a managerial future https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55530906 At the other end of the scale I wonder where the ex-PL wrecking ball Joey Barton will end up next https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55534954


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## hairball_89 (Jan 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			I see Liverpool have no out and out centre halves in their line up tonight, have thought that wouldve been a good approach for Arsenal at various points the last few years lol
		
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And yet, 2 centre halves on the bench... Not sure I'm keen, myself!


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 4, 2021)

Good to see the high level of officiating in the game tonight. The ref gives a corner in the last minute of injury time when it was clearly a throw in. And then from the corner the assistant referee gives a goal kick for the corner going out of play on the cross when it clearly didn't.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 4, 2021)

Well... Lovely finish from ings. Once again, we currently have what we deserve. 

Quick query though, salah and Bertrand go to ground. Ref (correctly I thought) gives goal kick. For some reason var check for a pen (it isn't) and then var see outright that Bertrand knicks  the ball. How can they not give a corner?

It's just odd?!


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## SteveW86 (Jan 4, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Good to see the high level of officiating in the game tonight. The ref gives a corner in the last minute of injury time when it was clearly a throw in. And then from the corner the assistant referee gives a goal kick for the corner going out of play on the cross when it clearly didn't.
		
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They do say decisions even themselves out


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## fundy (Jan 4, 2021)

5.8 for Mane


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			5.8 for Mane
		
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I was only going to give him 5.7.


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## Beezerk (Jan 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			5.8 for Mane
		
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He's a diving little sheeiiite. Definitely not a pen because Mane kicked the defenders leg


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			5.8 for Mane
		
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It wasn’t that good

There is also no point now getting annoyed with VAR - guess the rules have changed


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## hairball_89 (Jan 4, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Well... Lovely finish from ings. Once again, we currently have what we deserve.

Quick query though, salah and Bertrand go to ground. Ref (correctly I thought) gives goal kick. For some reason var check for a pen (it isn't) and then var see outright that Bertrand knicks  the ball. How can they not give a corner?

It's just odd?!
		
Click to expand...

Same at FT as HT. Awful.


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## fundy (Jan 4, 2021)

poor Carra about to cry


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## SteveW86 (Jan 4, 2021)

Does the top at Christmas trend still count this season, or will be be top after  19 games?


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## Beezerk (Jan 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			poor Carra about to cry 

Click to expand...

He must be spitting feathers...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346205717326397442
how is it not a penalty ?

When this was 



but this isn’t ?!




And also it’s ok to put Salah into a headlock ?

Have they turned VAR off ?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346205717326397442
how is it not a penalty ?

When this was

View attachment 34309

but this isn’t ?!

View attachment 34310


And also it’s ok to put Salah into a headlock ?

Have they turned VAR off ?
		
Click to expand...

His hand is if anything going towards his body when the shot is taken. It isn't reaching out at all. 

Giving a penalty for that because soft ones have been given out in the past isn't the answer.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346205717326397442
how is it not a penalty ?

When this was

View attachment 34309

but this isn’t ?!

View attachment 34310


And also it’s ok to put Salah into a headlock ?

Have they turned VAR off ?
		
Click to expand...

While I get and understand your x vs y questioning, that was NEVER a pen tonight. The one on Mane (scored above by our resident judges) was "more" of one for me (and it wasn't a pen either). If that had been given against us you'd have been fuming. 

We weren't good enough tonight. And haven't been for too many games.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2021)

17th Jan Utd v Liverpool is looking tasty all of a sudden. Could be a penalty fest


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## hairball_89 (Jan 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			17th Jan Utd v Liverpool is looking tasty all of a sudden. Could be a penalty fest
		
Click to expand...

I am *not* looking forward to it! Right now? Zero confidence. But also, if they can get up for united, but not perform in games like the last 3...? That's not good enough at all.


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## Beezerk (Jan 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			17th Jan Utd v Liverpool is looking tasty all of a sudden. Could be a penalty fest
		
Click to expand...

OGS was getting sacked a few weeks ago, terrible manager, absolutely clueless 
Win their game in hand and they go top.
Couldn't make it up


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			OGS was getting sacked a few weeks ago, terrible manager, absolutely clueless 
Win their game in hand and they go top.
Couldn't make it up 

Click to expand...

there’s a couple of posts I could reply to, but my initial post is not a wind up. But for the neutral the game could go either way. 3 weeks ago I would of thought Utd would be on the end of a tanking. But now am not to sure. Liverpool just looked to be running on empty at times. Liverpool need to grind a few results out. Ave a feeling that Liverpool have lost that invincible fear tag and other teams can sense a chance. 
The old rivalry could produce a stonker.


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## Beezerk (Jan 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			there’s a couple of posts I could reply to, but my initial post is not a wind up. But for the neutral the game could go either way. 3 weeks ago I would of thought Utd would be on the end of a tanking. But now am not to sure. Liverpool just looked to be running on empty at times. Liverpool need to grind a few results out. Ave a feeling that Liverpool have lost that invincible fear tag and other teams can sense a chance. 
The old rivalry could produce a stonker.
		
Click to expand...

Mo Salah needs to get his hands out of his shirt sleeves, in Yorkshire we would call him nesh.
He just doesn't look like he's trying at all, I'm interested in what regular Liverpool fans think of his current form.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 4, 2021)




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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			His hand is if anything going towards his body when the shot is taken. It isn't reaching out at all.

*Giving a penalty for that because soft ones have been given out in the past isn't the answer.*

Click to expand...


Exactly what I’ve been saying for the last 5yrs or more. Though it’s annoying when they go against you.

Final ball problems again today. Hopefully it’s just a dip in form but it needs sorting pronto.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It wasn’t that good

There is also no point now getting annoyed with VAR - guess the rules have changed
		
Click to expand...

The rules changes every week, stick to hockey😁


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## hairball_89 (Jan 4, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Mo Salah needs to get his hands out of his shirt sleeves, in Yorkshire we would call him nesh.
He just doesn't look like he's trying at all, I'm interested in what regular Liverpool fans think of his current form.
		
Click to expand...

He's our best player. By a country mile. But my God he needs to get his mojo back. I do wonder if his head has been turned by Spanish riches...

But the whole team is poor right now. He's dug us out of enough holes. The team need to help him out now.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346205717326397442
how is it not a penalty ?

When this was

View attachment 34309

but this isn’t ?!

View attachment 34310


And also it’s ok to put Salah into a headlock ?

Have they turned VAR off ?
		
Click to expand...

Its because Jack is twisting away from the ball and there's about 4 yards between the players, he's got no chance of getting out the way.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			He's our best player. By a country mile. But my God he needs to get his mojo back. I do wonder if his head has been turned by Spanish riches...

But the whole team is poor right now. He's dug us out of enough holes. The team need to help him out now.
		
Click to expand...

Salah isnt the issue, it’s the poor performances from the full backs and midfield. I’m not too sure whether Trent is still carrying a knock or what but his performances recently have stunk, by his own standards. The mismatch in defence hasn’t helped either. 

Play the kids against Villa and make sure we’re on it against Yernited.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Salah isnt the issue, it’s the poor performances from the full backs and midfield. I’m not too sure whether Trent is still carrying a knock or what but his performances recently have stunk, by his own standards. The mismatch in defence hasn’t helped either.

Play the kids against Villa and make sure we’re on it against Yernited.
		
Click to expand...

Oh God. The midfield. 

We've missed Fabinho so much this season it's mental. He's been as big a miss to the way we played compared to last season as Virgil has, and he's been playing!

Tsimikas being injured and Williams/Milner not good enough for various reasons hasn't helped - Trent and Robbo looked shattered last season. Depth should have been better this season but injuries get in the way.


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## fundy (Jan 4, 2021)

Good to see #Kloppout trending on twitter


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 4, 2021)

For me Firmino plays to deep ,he is never on the shoulder of the defenders .
How many crosses did we put in but most of the time there is nobody there.
He actually played well but not as a CF.
Salah form is terrible
But the second balls just didn’t drop for us tonight.
Must be the worst ref in the league , Salah in a headlock nothing .
Keeper fouled by his own man free kick.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Good to see #Kloppout trending on twitter 

Click to expand...

Doesn't surprise me one bit, look at what Leicester fans did to Ranieri a few months after they won the title. Nothing so fickle as a (thick) football fan.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2021)

I remember the commentator pointing out Trent Arnold made 38 missed passes last night. Now I appreciate statistics can be misleading but that is giving the ball away on an industrial scale. The full backs are very important to the system so if one is misfiring it is bound to impact. 

Liverpool had plenty of chances, they just are not going in right now.

Let's not forget Southampton in all this, they are a very good team, have strong attacking options. 

One big upside from games over the weekend, VAR. Anyone else noticed how much quicker decisions are being made? The system is working much more efficiently and calmly.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Doesn't surprise me one bit, look at what Leicester fans did to Ranieri a few months after they won the title. Nothing so fickle as a (thick) football fan.
		
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Just as fickle as someone hardly darkening this threads door for months if not years, then suddenly finding it again after one good win?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 5, 2021)

He’s not taken Lockdown very well 😂


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## sunshine (Jan 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I remember the commentator pointing out Trent Arnold made 38 missed passes last night.
		
Click to expand...

I can't believe that stat is right. That's getting on for one every 2 minutes.



Lord Tyrion said:



			Let's not forget Southampton in all this, they are a very good team, have strong attacking options.
		
Click to expand...

It's all about Liverpool, always about Liverpool. Liverpool have an injury crisis. The other team is not a factor 



Lord Tyrion said:



			One big upside from games over the weekend, VAR. Anyone else noticed how much quicker decisions are being made? The system is working much more efficiently and calmly.
		
Click to expand...

Possibly. Beware a false dawn! It's going to take at least 2 years to settle down. I thought Brighton were robbed though when the ref didn't use VAR in the last minute of the match.


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## AmandaJR (Jan 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346205717326397442
how is it not a penalty ?

When this was

View attachment 34309

but this isn’t ?!

View attachment 34310


And also it’s ok to put Salah into a headlock ?

Have they turned VAR off ?
		
Click to expand...

There is also no point now getting annoyed with VAR - guess the rules have changed


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			There is also no point now getting annoyed with VAR - guess the rules have changed
		
Click to expand...

I know - it’s very frustrating when the inconsistency appears to get worse. If the same standards that we saw last night continue for the rest of the season then there will be minimal complaints - still have this nagging doubt that the whole “Livarpool” false nonsense that was spread maybe affecting decisions with VAR , hope that’s not the case. 

Southampton played very well , the battle between Mane and Walker Peters was excellent , and their back line was superb. We didn’t create enough clear chances to get the win and Soton deserved the points 

We are in a blip at the moment - having none of the main CB’s fit isn’t helping because we miss a lot of Fabinhos drive in the middle along with others but I don’t think we will get one in 

In fairness the predictions were struggling for top 4 when we lost VVD - so to still be top isn’t a bad thing but we need to get results quickly - City getting results and same with Utd


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I can't believe that stat is right. That's getting on for one every 2 minutes.
		
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It does seem a lot but I have just checked this morning and it was what they said, see link

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/so...-alexander-arnolds-nightmare-showing-23261934


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It does seem a lot but I have just checked this morning and it was what they said, see link

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/so...-alexander-arnolds-nightmare-showing-23261934

Click to expand...

I wondered if that included crosses that were headed out by a defender. It would make a lot more sense if it did with the amount of crosses he puts in. Wasn't he also on corners last night so that's a whole load more crosses.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I wondered if that included crosses that were headed out by a defender. It would make a lot more sense if it did with the amount of crosses he puts in. Wasn't he also on corners last night so that's a whole load more crosses.
		
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That could definitely make sense. You would hope clearances would be a different category but I don't really look into them that much. I don't tend to take notice of stats but that one stood out.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 5, 2021)

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/grounded-with-louis-theroux/id1508985962?i=1000477977345

This is worth a listen.


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## AmandaJR (Jan 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know - it’s very frustrating when the inconsistency appears to get worse. If the same standards that we saw last night continue for the rest of the season then there will be minimal complaints - still have this nagging doubt that the whole “Livarpool” false nonsense that was spread maybe affecting decisions with VAR , hope that’s not the case.

Southampton played very well , the battle between Mane and Walker Peters was excellent , and their back line was superb. We didn’t create enough clear chances to get the win and Soton deserved the points

We are in a blip at the moment - having none of the main CB’s fit isn’t helping because we miss a lot of Fabinhos drive in the middle along with others but I don’t think we will get one in

In fairness the predictions were struggling for top 4 when we lost VVD - so to still be top isn’t a bad thing but we need to get results quickly - City getting results and same with Utd
		
Click to expand...

There was a slight ironic tone to my post...as it was a copy of one of yours


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 5, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			There was a slight ironic tone to my post...as it was a copy of one of yours 

Click to expand...

😂😂🤦‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Jan 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I wondered if that included crosses that were headed out by a defender. It would make a lot more sense if it did with the amount of crosses he puts in. Wasn't he also on corners last night so that's a whole load more crosses.
		
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Talking of corners last night. Liverpool have one in fergie time. Allison is already in the box and Liverpool play a short one and the ref blows. Why not put it in the box 🤔


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## hairball_89 (Jan 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Talking of corners last night. Liverpool have one in fergie time. Allison is already in the box and Liverpool play a short one and the ref blows. Why not put it in the box 🤔
		
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Please don't remind me!


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## SaintHacker (Jan 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just as fickle as someone hardly darkening this threads door for months if not years, then suddenly finding it again after one good win? 

Click to expand...

Meeow.
Has anyone mentioned Saints were without 6 first team players last night? Asking for a friend...😉


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## Tashyboy (Jan 5, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Meeow.
Has anyone mentioned Saints were without 6 first team players last night? Asking for a friend...😉
		
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strange you should mention that. City had a few first teamers  missing v Chelsea and it’s the best Ave seen them this season. saints have a couple 😉 missing and played excellent. Where as Liverpool didn’t play well.

A few thoughts on where and why Liverpool are struggling appreciated.


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## fundy (Jan 5, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Meeow.
Has anyone mentioned Saints were without 6 first team players last night? Asking for a friend...😉
		
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Best thing that happened to Arsenal was several of our older players being unavailable for the Chelsea game  Yes I mean the ex Chelsea older players mainly lol


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Meeow.
Has anyone mentioned Saints were without 6 first team players last night? Asking for a friend...😉
		
Click to expand...

Meow back.

You come on talking about fickle and do the exact same yourself, why not comment on that instead?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 5, 2021)

Watching Liverpool recently I seem to have noticed that the opposition seem to be pressing TAA higher up the pitch in an attempt to counter his attacking threat.

This is also putting him under more pressure defensively and I  am afraid that has never been a strength of his game. 

The difficulties at CB are not helping as he is sometimes left more exposed when  a more experienced  player inside him might give him more cover.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Meow back.

You come on talking about fickle and do the exact same yourself, why not comment on that instead?
		
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Think you need to untwist your knickers a bit, i had you down as one of the more sensible supporters. The ones I'm referring to as fickle are the idiots who are callong for Klopps head, which is a patently ridiculous suggestion. Much the same as the Leicester lot who turned on Ranieri when it became obvious they wouldnt win the league a second time, strangely enough.
Not sure how not commenting on a thread very often makes me fickle  but if you say it does so be it. So thanks for reminding me why i dont comment on here very often, ill get back in my box now (until the next time we beat Liverpool at least )


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## Stuart_C (Jan 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			strange you should mention that. City had a few first teamers  missing v Chelsea and it’s the best Ave seen them this season. saints have a couple 😉 missing and played excellent. Where as Liverpool didn’t play well.

A few thoughts on where and why Liverpool are struggling appreciated.
		
Click to expand...

In my view its a mixture of reasons. Very similar to City last season. 

Losing 3 CB's, 1 for 25 games a season and 2 the whole season. 

Losing possibly our best CM to play CB.
Fullbacks just not on their game, Trent more so has been shocking by his own standards. 

A weakened midfield. Losing Fabinho to play further back has definitely had an affect. 

Front  3 not firing and going through  a bit of a bad spell. It's not as easy to drop one of them when you're bringing Origi on etc. Slightly different if Jota is available, klopp could rotate the 3. 

I can't fault the effort, we're  just hitting a bit of poor form. It's very easy to slag and blame players but after the last 2 and a half years if anyone deserves a bit of slack, it's these boys.

10yrs ago we had to endure the Hodgson era, some of these cryarsing virgins on twitter and social  need to remember that.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 5, 2021)

Perhaps I am turning into a cynic. A new chairman making bold statements makes me nervous https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55551717


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## Tashyboy (Jan 5, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Perhaps I am turning into a cynic. A new chairman making bold statements makes me nervous https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55551717

Click to expand...

Quote from the BBC piece
Pace won't say exactly how much he has borrowed from Michael Dell's MSD UK Holdings but it is clearly a significant sum, which brings back uncomfortable memories of how the Glazer family funded their purchase of Manchester United, plunging the club into a huge amount of debt.

and this statement alone makes it a squeaky bum moment for me and one as a Burnley fan I would not be happy about. He has borrowed money which will come from profits the club makes To repay the money.

Also in the article it goes on to say he wanted to buy Sheff Utd but that went tits up. So Burnley is sloppy seconds. Nowt wrong with that as am sure Sheik Mansoor wanted to buy Arsenal before he turned his sights on Citeh. But there’s a difference between someone who is worth Billions and someone who needs to borrow a couple of quid to Buy Burnley.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 5, 2021)




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## ColchesterFC (Jan 5, 2021)

It really annoys me when refs do what Mike Dean has just done in the Spurs v Brentford game. A Spurs player went down with Spurs in possession. They chose to continue attacking rather than put the ball out for their player to get treatment. They lost the ball and Brentford started going forward with Spurs players wanting the ball put out. And then Dean blows the whistle to stop the game. 

If Spurs want the ball put out then they should have done it while they were attacking. And if Dean thinks the game needs to be stopped then he should stop it rather than waiting for Brentford to win the ball back.


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## DanFST (Jan 5, 2021)

I'm not watching, are the spurs players that got caught breaking the rules playing?


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## Orikoru (Jan 5, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I'm not watching, are the spurs players that got caught breaking the rules playing?
		
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Reguilon is playing. Lamela and Lo Celso were the other two, and they are out for Covid reasons anyway (i.e. I think they got a positive test for it didn't they?)


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 5, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I'm not watching, are the spurs players that got caught breaking the rules playing?
		
Click to expand...

They're exempt from the laws and regulations us mere mortals have to obey.


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## Orikoru (Jan 5, 2021)

Brushed Brentford aside, nice and easy. Ndombele and Sissoko were class.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Brushed Brentford aside, nice and easy. Ndombele and Sissoko were class.
		
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Not forgetting a nice helping hand from VAR of course


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## pauljames87 (Jan 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not forgetting a nice helping hand from VAR of course
		
Click to expand...

Turned the game on its head. Brentford were looking the most likely then


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Think you need to untwist your knickers a bit, i had you down as one of the more sensible supporters. The ones I'm referring to as fickle are the idiots who are callong for Klopps head, which is a patently ridiculous suggestion. Much the same as the Leicester lot who turned on Ranieri when it became obvious they wouldnt win the league a second time, strangely enough.
Not sure how not commenting on a thread very often makes me fickle  but if you say it does so be it. So thanks for reminding me why i dont comment on here very often, ill get back in my box now (until the next time we beat Liverpool at least )
		
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I dont wear knickers, more a camisole type of guy.

Totally agree, they are the divvies who inhabit social media, mostly followers more than supporters, I find they aren't a litmus test of true supporters, but does depend on the subject. I'm also sure that at certain points over the last 40 years some saints fans called for McMenemy's head and some others of your more successful managers, it goes with the territory in all fanbases but sadly they have more of an outlet and presence due to SM, these days.

You also have many fans who you dont hear nothing about until they win something, then suddenly you find out they support a certain team after they get to a final or they deride your team, as a rival, even though they have kept their head down when your team is enjoying success. Maybe you looked more fairweather than fickle.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont wear knickers, more a camisole type of guy.

Totally agree, they are the divvies who inhabit social media, mostly followers more than supporters, I find they aren't a litmus test of true supporters, but does depend on the subject. I'm also sure that at certain points over the last 40 years some saints fans called for McMenemy's head and some others of your more successful managers, it goes with the territory in all fanbases but sadly they have more of an outlet and presence due to SM, these days.

You also have many fans who you dont hear nothing about until they *win something*, then suddenly you find out they support a certain team after they get to a final or they deride your team, as a rival, even though they have kept their head down when your team is enjoying success. Maybe you looked more more fairweather than fickle.  

Click to expand...

Well ya know. The Johnstone paint trophy is a big deal!!


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## Orikoru (Jan 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not forgetting a nice helping hand from VAR of course
		
Click to expand...

Well, not really. They scored a goal that was offside so it was ruled out. Nothing untoward. 

I was joshing a little bit, Brentford are a good side but I felt we played pretty well to get the win.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Well ya know. The Johnstone paint trophy is a big deal!!
		
Click to expand...

I'd rather watch paint dry than one of them finals.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd rather watch paint dry than one of them finals.

Click to expand...

Glory hunter 😂😂


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 6, 2021)

The ref's set the bar for bookings by not taking action for that foul by Fernandino on Fernandes. Be interesting to see if he sticks to that for the rest of the match.


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## fundy (Jan 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			The ref's set the bar for bookings by not taking action for that foul by Fernandino on Fernandes. Be interesting to see if he sticks to that for the rest of the match.
		
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atkinson does everything not to show cards these days, awful ref


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			atkinson does everything not to show cards these days, awful ref
		
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Seems they've given up on flagging for offside as well. Foden a good yard offside and not flagged until he put the ball in the net several seconds later. And then Rashford clearly offside but not flagged and ended with Stones sliding in to clear as Pogba slid in to challenge. Either one of them could have been hurt in that tackle. Should have been stopped much earlier. Someone is going to get hurt in a challenge after a clear offside that the linesman hasn't flagged for.


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## fundy (Jan 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



*Seems they've given up on flagging for offside as well*. Foden a good yard offside and not flagged until he put the ball in the net several seconds later. And then Rashford clearly offside but not flagged and ended with Stones sliding in to clear as Pogba slid in to challenge. Either one of them could have been hurt in that tackle. Should have been stopped much earlier. Someone is going to get hurt in a challenge after a clear offside that the linesman hasn't flagged for.
		
Click to expand...


Thats the directive now with VAR, really annoying

whats worse is the comms always say "the flags stayed down......... now its up"


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## Imurg (Jan 6, 2021)

So.....what does a Lino actually do then..?


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## fundy (Jan 6, 2021)

Imurg said:



			So.....what does a Lino actually do then..?
		
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flag about 30 seconds later (only for them to confirm it via video)


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## Imurg (Jan 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			flag about 30 seconds later (only for them to confirm it via video)
		
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Right......so......I'm glad I don't watch much any more....


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 6, 2021)

fundy said:



*Thats the directive now with VAR,* really annoying

whats worse is the comms always say "the flags stayed down......... now its up"
		
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I thought that was only meant to be for tight decisions? The Foden one was a yard offside.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Thats the directive now with VAR, really annoying

whats worse is the comms always say "the flags stayed down......... now its up"
		
Click to expand...

This is why VAR has helped to kill football at a game. When does a fan actually cheer for a goal. Rammel.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 6, 2021)

Imurg said:



			So.....what does a Lino actually do then..?
		
Click to expand...

Flags for substitutions and occasionally throw-ins (sometimes getting that decision right)


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## fundy (Jan 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought that was only meant to be for tight decisions? The Foden one was a yard offside.
		
Click to expand...

seems to have morphed into pretty much every offside these days, benefit to the attacker and correct via VAR if needed


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## fundy (Jan 6, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			This is why VAR has helped to kill football at a game. When does a fan actually cheer for a goal. Rammel.
		
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half hearted cheer when the goal goes in then a scream of HOLDDDDDDD as they review then another half hearted cheer if its still a goal???

as a late goals punter, VAR is not only soul destroying but very costly too!


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 6, 2021)

Footballers really are pathetic. Foden just got tackled by Wan Bissaka and went down clutching his leg in pain. He then looked up to complain to the ref that he hadn't been given a free kick before going back to clutching his shin in pain. 

I'd get Fraggered if I put what I really think about it.


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## Orikoru (Jan 6, 2021)

I'm pretty sure Stones scored that goal with his penis? Fair play.


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## pendodave (Jan 6, 2021)

I quite watching games that Atkinson refs as he doesn't give much.
Not sure I'd be as entertained if a team I supported was involved, but improves the game as a spectacle for those without prejudice.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 6, 2021)

Is it possible to give a score of 0.0 for a dive? If so, Martial deserves one for that effort.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is it possible to give a score of 0.0 for a dive? If so, Martial deserves one for that effort.
		
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Can't believe he avoided a booking for that.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 6, 2021)

Martial's shorts will need a boil wash tonight, the amount of times he has sadly fell on the floor, poor sod.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 6, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Martial's shorts will need a boil wash tonight, the amount of times he has sadly fell on the floor, poor sod.
		
Click to expand...

He's obviously got an inner ear infection that affects his balance. It's surprising how many professional footballers seem to have the same affliction. It's like the number of cyclists that suffer from asthma.


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## Junior (Jan 6, 2021)

City were the best team tonight.  Really impressed with Stones and Dias partnership at the back.  

Actually not too displeased with the way we played though  Missed Bailly at the back.


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## Junior (Jan 6, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Martial's shorts will need a boil wash tonight, the amount of times he has sadly fell on the floor, poor sod.
		
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Those two dives for the pens were woeful weren't they.  I think if Cavani was fit he'd have been subbed.


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## 4LEX (Jan 6, 2021)

Martial is a wet wipe. Lazy, poor first touch and finishing of a centre back. Embarrassing to see an elite club carrying this passenger upfront. One goal from open play all season  

No dodgy pens, no Man Utd.


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## Junior (Jan 6, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Martial is a wet wipe. Lazy, poor first touch and finishing of a centre back. Embarrassing to see an elite club carrying this passenger upfront. One goal from open play all season 

No dodgy pens, no Man Utd.
		
Click to expand...

Can't disagree with you about Martial.  That said, Dias had him in his pocket tonight .    I think Cavani would have started tonight if available.  

The no dodgy pens no man utd thing I think is a bit harsh.  Jury is out on Ole but I think since the start of the season we've got better and better and the players are working a lot harder.


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## Slime (Jan 6, 2021)

Junior said:



			Can't disagree with you about Martial.  That said, Dias had him in his pocket tonight .    I think Cavani would have started tonight if available. 

*The no dodgy pens no man utd thing I think is a bit harsh.*  Jury is out on Ole but I think since the start of the season we've got better and better and the players are working a lot harder.
		
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Don't worry about 4LEX, he's just trying to push buttons.
He's a regular ABU, probably an envy thing.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm pretty sure Stones scored that goal with his penis? Fair play.
		
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Glad he wasn’t holding it,  coulda been handball.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 6, 2021)

At times I thought the game looked more like a practice match for both sides.

He looks a good signing for City. Mojo.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 6, 2021)

Junior said:



			Those two dives for the pens were woeful weren't they.  I think if Cavani was fit he'd have been subbed.
		
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Harsh, Andy.


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## 4LEX (Jan 6, 2021)

Junior said:



			Those two dives for the pens were woeful weren't they.  I think if Cavani was fit he'd have been subbed.
		
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He is fit. He's banned for making racist comments.


Junior said:



			Can't disagree with you about Martial.  That said, Dias had him in his pocket tonight .    I think Cavani would have started tonight if available. 

The no dodgy pens no man utd thing I think is a bit harsh.  Jury is out on Ole but I think since the start of the season we've got better and better and the players are working a lot harder.
		
Click to expand...

I actually think Martial is a world class left forward. The problem is he's deluded and thinks he's a striker. LVG and Mourinho are two of the greatest managers of the last two decades and they thought the same - he's a winger.

Cantona, Cole, RVN, Rooney and RVP.....that's elite level. I'd argue in this uncertain season if Utd had a 30 goal a season striker you'd probably win the league, instead of finishing 3rd or 4th. Mourinho was right and this guy should've been sold. A proper winger and Lukaku would've been a much better option.


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## 4LEX (Jan 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			Don't worry about 4LEX, he's just trying to push buttons.
He's a regular ABU, probably an envy thing.
		
Click to expand...

Envy of what? What have you done in the last 8 years I'd envy? I'm a lower league fan that is a neutral when it comes to top level football. I like you back your team and think you're a top guy but I just dislike this United side.


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## Junior (Jan 7, 2021)

4LEX said:



			He is fit. He's banned for making racist comments.


I actually think Martial is a world class left forward. The problem is he's deluded and thinks he's a striker. LVG and Mourinho are two of the greatest managers of the last two decades and they thought the same - he's a winger.

Cantona, Cole, RVN, Rooney and RVP.....that's elite level. I'd argue in this uncertain season if Utd had a 30 goal a season striker you'd probably win the league, instead of finishing 3rd or 4th. Mourinho was right and this guy should've been sold. A proper winger and Lukaku would've been a much better option.
		
Click to expand...

Can't disagree.  Interesting thought about Lukaku in this team.  Now there seems to be a bit of passion and fight in the team I wonder if he'd have excelled.

I had no issue with selling him given his attitude and performances.  Its one of those catch 22 situations, do you keep him and try and motivate him, or was he a bad egg and thenoffer from Inter was too good to turn down.

You can say the same about Citeh,  if they had a good / in form CF then they'd be right up there.  I wonder if Laport will go straight back into this team given how well Dias and Stones are starting to gel


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## Tashyboy (Jan 7, 2021)

Junior said:



			Can't disagree.  Interesting thought about Lukaku in this team.  Now there seems to be a bit of passion and fight in the team I wonder if he'd have excelled.

I had no issue with selling him given his attitude and performances.  Its one of those catch 22 situations, do you keep him and try and motivate him, or was he a bad egg and thenoffer from Inter was too good to turn down.

You can say the same about Citeh,  if they had a good / in form CF then they'd be right up there.  I wonder if Laport will go straight back into this team given how well Dias and Stones are starting to gel
		
Click to expand...

It seems that Stones has started to be the centre half everyone thought he could be 5 yrs ago. Re Laporte it hard to see him dropping in. That aside when pep has Walker, Aki, Laporte, Diaz, Cancello, stones, zinchenko fit there a lot to choose from. Hopefu
lt getting rid of Mendy and Garcia
Re Stirling, another shift where he showed the rubbish side of his game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 7, 2021)

Junior said:



			Can't disagree.  Interesting thought about Lukaku in this team.  Now there seems to be a bit of passion and fight in the team I wonder if he'd have excelled.

I had no issue with selling him given his attitude and performances.  Its one of those catch 22 situations, do you keep him and try and motivate him, or was he a bad egg and thenoffer from Inter was too good to turn down.
		
Click to expand...

He was a good egg at every other club before and after. He scored everywhere else as well. His weakness, Utd's weakness for trying to change him, is that he is not particularly versatile. You need to play a certain way with him. Do that and he scores. Utd bought him and then expected him to change and do as well, he didn't. You then had Jose putting the boot in and his head dropped.


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## Orikoru (Jan 7, 2021)

Lukaku is a great striker. I still don't know what happened or why they shipped him out. He got 28 goals in 66 games (league only, according to Wiki) which is not exactly a terrible record. I read recently that he has reached 50 goals for Inter Milan in less games than it took Ronaldo to do the same. Ok Serie A defences are nowhere the near the standard they were in Ronaldo's day - but that's still an impressive feat! Internationally he has 57 in 89, which is very impressive as well. You just need to create chances for him, and he will put them away.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Lukaku is a great striker. I still don't know what happened or why they shipped him out. He got 28 goals in 66 games (league only, according to Wiki) which is not exactly a terrible record. I read recently that he has reached 50 goals for Inter Milan in less games than it took Ronaldo to do the same. Ok Serie A defences are nowhere the near the standard they were in Ronaldo's day - but that's still an impressive feat! Internationally he has 57 in 89, which is very impressive as well. You just need to create chances for him, and he will put them away.
		
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Spot on .
If you have a quality CF you must play to his strengths not try and change his game.


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## Kellfire (Jan 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Lukaku is a great striker. I still don't know what happened or why they shipped him out. He got 28 goals in 66 games (league only, according to Wiki) which is not exactly a terrible record. I read recently that he has reached 50 goals for Inter Milan in less games than it took Ronaldo to do the same. Ok Serie A defences are nowhere the near the standard they were in Ronaldo's day - but that's still an impressive feat! Internationally he has 57 in 89, which is very impressive as well. You just need to create chances for him, and he will put them away.
		
Click to expand...

In pure numbers he looks alright but just watching him was very frustrating. Did we play to his strengths? No. But if he wasn’t scoring goals he was doing nothing else in our team. We did a similar thing when we got rid of RVN to move towards a more fluid front line and that’s what happened here.


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## Orikoru (Jan 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			In pure numbers he looks alright but just watching him was very frustrating. Did we play to his strengths? No. But if he wasn’t scoring goals he was doing nothing else in our team. We did a similar thing when we got rid of RVN to move towards a more fluid front line and that’s what happened here.
		
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That's just the kind of forward he is I guess. Not everyone can be Harry Kane.


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## Beezerk (Jan 7, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Re Stirling, another shift where he showed the rubbish side of his game.
		
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There was a point in the first half where he turned into space and rather than run at the full back who was on his heels he turned back around into trouble, madness!
I thought I'd never say it but Grealish would be a better player for you lot, in that position would have been straight for the jugular.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			There was a point in the first half where he turned into space and rather than run at the full back who was on his heels he turned back around into trouble, madness!
I thought I'd never say it but Grealish would be a better player for you lot, in that position would have been straight for the jugular.
		
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He is one of the most frustrating players Ave seen in a City shirt. I remember I bought grandson a shirt at the game A couple of seasons ago. Whoever scored first you got free printing after the game. Am praying for KDB, Silva or Aguero. Bloody Stirling scores. I was hoping VAR overturned it.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Lukaku is a great striker. I still don't know what happened or why they shipped him out. He got 28 goals in 66 games (league only, according to Wiki) which is not exactly a terrible record. I read recently that he has reached 50 goals for Inter Milan in less games than it took Ronaldo to do the same. Ok Serie A defences are nowhere the near the standard they were in Ronaldo's day - but that's still an impressive feat! Internationally he has 57 in 89, which is very impressive as well. You just need to create chances for him, and he will put them away.
		
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Read a good piece about Lukaku  at Inter. Bottom line, they are playing to his strengths.They have not asked him to change his game. Apparently him and Martinez have hit it off up front. Plus for as big a lad as he is, he wants to be “ loved”. And he is being loved at Inter.


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## Orikoru (Jan 7, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Read a good piece about Lukaku  at Inter. Bottom line, they are playing to his strengths.They have not asked him to change his game. Apparently him and Martinez have hit it off up front. Plus for as big a lad as he is,* he wants to be “ loved”.* And he is being loved at Inter.
		
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Who doesn't?


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2021)

I see Villa (and Middlesborough) have closed training grounds after covid outbreaks, as did Derby yesterday


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2021)

Arsenal have borrowed £120m under the Covid Corporate Financing Scheme, surely that cant be what the scheme is meant for, businesses owned by multi billionaires who are then going to use the loan to buy and pay footballers (and their agents) obscene amounts of money


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 7, 2021)

Can someone explain to me how the City WSL match against West Ham can be postponed because of 4 postive tests by City, the same 4 players who flew to and from Dubai recently??


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Can someone explain to me how the City WSL match against West Ham can be postponed because of 4 postive tests by City, the same 4 players who flew to and from Dubai recently??
		
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Arsenals WSL similarly affected and likely to be cancelled too it seems. Bristol City had to fulfill a fixture with 5 fit first teamers. Spot the difference lol


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## Orikoru (Jan 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			Arsenal have borrowed £120m under the Covid Corporate Financing Scheme, surely that cant be what the scheme is meant for, businesses owned by multi billionaires who are then going to use the loan to buy and pay footballers (and their agents) obscene amounts of money 

Click to expand...

They need that just to pay Ozil. I'm sure they claimed he's been isolating for six months.


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## Junior (Jan 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He was a good egg at every other club before and after. He scored everywhere else as well. His weakness, Utd's weakness for trying to change him, is that he is not particularly versatile. You need to play a certain way with him. Do that and he scores. Utd bought him and then expected him to change and do as well, he didn't. You then had Jose putting the boot in and his head dropped.
		
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He was amazing for us at the start.  Then Jose played him upfront with no one within 50 yards of him.  May as well have signed Andy Carroll for the job Jose asked him to do in the 2nd half of his time with us.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			I see Villa (and Middlesborough) have closed training grounds after covid outbreaks, as did Derby yesterday
		
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Just seen that and we play them tomorrow, it cant be rearranged.

Derby have been told to play a team from there U23/18’s sides, Villa must have to do the same.


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Just seen that and we play them tomorrow, it cant be rearranged.

Derby have been told to play a team from there U23/18’s sides, Villa must have to do the same.
		
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Thought the FA said they would assess each case on a game by game basis so could yet be cancelled as long as can be played before the 4th round is due.

Be interesting to see who Klopp rests especially with this news if it does go ahead

Edit: 5/2 out to 8/1 Villa says its probably being played


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## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			Thought the FA said they would assess each case on a game by game basis so could yet be cancelled as long as can be played before the 4th round is due.

Be interesting to see who Klopp rests especially with this news if it does go ahead

Edit: 5/2 out to 8/1 Villa says its probably being played
		
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Cant expect Derby to play U23/18’s and rearrange a game for another team. Either play the game or forfeit the game.

We had to play u23/18’s last year in the 1/4 finals of the league cup when we were in Qatar, so my view is based on previous. 

Klopp doesn’t take the Cups too seriously, look who we play between rounds 4&5 and that’ll tell you what type of team we’ll be putting out tomorrow.


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## SteveW86 (Jan 7, 2021)

Women’s games to be decided by coin toss


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2021)

Southampton game has been called off because Shrewsbury players being tested positive 

Derby having to play U23 players 

Villa potentially having big issues 

Why is elite sport still going on ? Why not a breaker


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## SteveW86 (Jan 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Southampton game has been called off because Shrewsbury players being tested positive

Derby having to play U23 players

Villa potentially having big issues
*
Why is elite sport still going on ? Why not a breaker*

Click to expand...

it really should be put on hold. I imagine it is kept going to give people something to watch, but if all we are seeing is these secure bubbles becoming infected it’s just making morale worse


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## hairball_89 (Jan 7, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Women’s games to be decided by coin toss
		
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As a Brighton WSL season ticket holder the last year or so (the mrs is a Seagull!) I can safely say their chances of winning have gone through the roof with this news!



Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is elite sport still going on ? Why not a breaker
		
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Who knows? NULL AND VOID EVERYTHING!


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## Slime (Jan 8, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Envy of what? What have you done in the last 8 years I'd envy? I'm a lower league fan that is a neutral when it comes to top level football. I like you back your team and think you're a top guy but I just dislike this United side.
		
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In the last 8 years ............................... nowt, but peoples' envy goes back to the beginning of the PL era and even before that.
Maybe I've got you wrong, if so I apologise, but it just seems to me that you are regularly highly critical of a team that's level on points with the league leaders who have played an extra game.


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## DanFST (Jan 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			it really should be put on hold. I imagine it is kept going to give people something to watch, but if all we are seeing is these secure bubbles becoming infected it’s just making morale worse
		
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"Secure bubbles" Tested once a week (now 2x), players blatantly ignoring the rules we all have to follow. Two WSL matches postponed, all because players flew to Dubai over Xmas. London was in tier 4 already, so Arsenal players broke the law.

All the spurs players and Lanzini from my lot that were so stupid to take a photo of them breaking the rules, all played the next week with no ramifications.

I'm not breaking the rules. As someone without a family, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I infected someone's. But apparently that's rare.

Clubs have made no effort to discipline players, and the only punishment is a minuscule fine of £200.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2021)

DanFST said:



			"Secure bubbles" Tested once a week (now 2x), players blatantly ignoring the rules we all have to follow. Two WSL matches postponed, all because players flew to Dubai over Xmas. London was in tier 4 already, so Arsenal players broke the law.

All the spurs players and Lanzini from my lot that were so stupid to take a photo of them breaking the rules, all played the next week with no ramifications.

I'm not breaking the rules. As someone without a family, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I infected someone's. But apparently that's rare.

Clubs have made no effort to discipline players, and the only punishment is a minuscule fine of £200.
		
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It said on the news the club gave them permission to go to Dubai .
That seems very strange as they havnt got the power to override the law.
Really is a mess and clubs and players are looking very arrogant.

If you can’t leave a tier 4 area how come you can just get on a plane and leave.
More to the point just come back into the country.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			It said on the news the club gave them permission to go to Dubai .
That seems very strange as they havnt got the power to override the law.
Really is a mess and clubs and players are looking very arrogant.

If you can’t leave a tier 4 area how come you can just get on a plane and leave.
More to the point just come back into the country.
		
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Elite sports persons can travel , prob set up for actual traveling to games but wouldn't surprise me if it was a loop hole


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## Tashyboy (Jan 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Women’s games to be decided by coin toss
		
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it will still go to Stockley park for a decision.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Southampton game has been called off because Shrewsbury players being tested positive

Derby having to play U23 players

Villa potentially having big issues

Why is elite sport still going on ? Why not a breaker
		
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Well, the Villa game has just been confirmed as going ahead! Looks like the reverse of last year when liverpool had to play kids against us in the cup as the main squad was at the Club World Cup! 

I know its a loss already, but looking forward to seeing our Kids play!


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## GB72 (Jan 8, 2021)

And after all of this we have at least one manager plus some of the blithering idiots on TalkSport pushing for the Premiership and EFL to have all of their players and staff vaccinated (but they will give the money they spend on testing to the NHS, honest). That really is callous and somewhat farcical to think that footballers should jump ahead of those at risk or in front line positions. Hell, the lovely people on Talksport this morning were even putting forward the case that Footballers were key workers. 

If this gathers any momentum it is time to call their bluff and state that they are clearly stating that they cannot safely proceed without vaccination and so the sport should be shut down until the summer.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 8, 2021)

This re players having the vaccine etc.

The virus ain’t choosy who it infects, and you don’t have to be naughty to get it. 99% of players am sure behave. The ones that don’t behave give a bad name to the profession. Games that get cancelled, fans are up in arms and want points deducted and public floggings. Whatever is decided someone is gonna be upset.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 8, 2021)

GB72 said:



			And after all of this we have at least one manager plus some of the blithering idiots on TalkSport pushing for the Premiership and EFL to have all of their players and staff vaccinated (but they will give the money they spend on testing to the NHS, honest). That really is callous and somewhat farcical to think that footballers should jump ahead of those at risk or in front line positions. Hell, the lovely people on Talksport this morning were even putting forward the case that Footballers were key workers.

If this gathers any momentum it is time to call their bluff and state that they are clearly stating that they cannot safely proceed without vaccination and so the sport should be shut down until the summer.
		
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I listened to a lot of it yesterday and it started about the Olympics

The suggestion was that once all the vunerable and at risk people were given the vaccine then if sporting events required a medical passport and the vaccine was required then someone said that Olympic Athletes could be given the vaccine to allow them to compete as for many of them it was their job etc

Then someone mentioned footballers getting it now etc and it went from there

Then I see Dyche has said that they could get the vaccine to release funds from all the testing. Sound in theory - awful in practise - no one should get it before anyone who is vunerable or at risk


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## GB72 (Jan 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I listened to a lot of it yesterday and it started about the Olympics

The suggestion was that once all the vunerable and at risk people were given the vaccine then if sporting events required a medical passport and the vaccine was required then someone said that Olympic Athletes could be given the vaccine to allow them to compete as for many of them it was their job etc

Then someone mentioned footballers getting it now etc and it went from there
		
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I was referring more to Sean Dyche (may be wrong spelling) stating that players and staff should be vaccinated in exchange for the Premiership an EFL paying what they spend on testing to the NHS (so cannot get the vaccine on the open market to lets see if our money talks anywhere else) followed by all of the hosts on the breakfast show on talksport this morning stating that it was a great idea and actually putting forward the serious suggestion that, because footballers could not work from home, they should be treated as Key Workers and be bumped up the vaccination queue.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Elite sports persons can travel , prob set up for actual traveling to games but wouldn't surprise me if it was a loop hole
		
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Were they going for a game?
Any travel outside official club games should be the same as you and me.
This is why people see them breaking the rules and think if they can do it so can I.
I can travel for work but not for a jolly.
Looks really poor judgment imo.or arrogance!


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Well, the Villa game has just been confirmed as going ahead! Looks like the reverse of last year when liverpool had to play kids against us in the cup as the main squad was at the Club World Cup!

I know its a loss already, but looking forward to seeing our Kids play!
		
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Can’t see Klopp playing a full team so might be a good game.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Were they going for a game?
Any travel outside official club games should be the same as you and me.
This is why people see them breaking the rules and think if they can do it so can I.
I can travel for work but not for a jolly.
Looks really poor judgment imo.or arrogance!
		
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It is poor judgement on a professional athlete not following the rules. 

But it's idiotic for anyone else that sees them do it to then do the same. And anyone that does is a moron and should be called out as such.


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## SteveW86 (Jan 8, 2021)

Not being able to work from home does not make you a key worker. I dont really have any sympathy for Premier League footballers, they have enough money to sit at home and wait out the situation. I do have sympathy with the lower leagues of football, though I am not sure how far down the pyramid you need to go to get to people who are on a "normal" wage of lets say £50k (still a high wage)....does anybody know? These clubs are at risk, so therefore these players incomes are too, not sure how many of them are trained in other areas so could get another job (I appreciate it is the same for any other person who is it at risk of losing their job)

It is all about how the public view it, they see footballers having parties over Xmas and everyone gets tainted when we know it is a small % of people doing wrong, this is the same as the general public, the vast majority of us are sticking to the rules/guidelines and doing all we can to get through this as quickly as possible. The consequences of breaking the rules have not been strict enough to deter people across the board, if they were people would quickly stop.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			It is poor judgement on a professional athlete not following the rules.

But it's idiotic for anyone else that sees them do it to then do the same. And anyone that does is a moron and should be called out as such.
		
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There’s plenty of them in the country, we only have to watch the news.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 8, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I was referring more to Sean Dyche (may be wrong spelling) stating that players and staff should be vaccinated in exchange for the Premiership an EFL paying what they spend on testing to the NHS (so cannot get the vaccine on the open market to lets see if our money talks anywhere else) followed by all of the hosts on the breakfast show on talksport this morning stating that it was a great idea and actually putting forward the serious suggestion that, *because footballers could not work from home, they should be treated as Key Workers* and be bumped up the vaccination queue.
		
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I can't work from home, finally I'm a key worker . I was feeling very left out up to this point as 95% of the working popuplation seem to be claiming to be key workers.

(that really is exceptionally stupid)


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## GB72 (Jan 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't work from home, finally I'm a key worker . I was feeling very left out up to this point as 95% of the working popuplation seem to be claiming to be key workers.

(that really is exceptionally stupid)
		
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I know, some interesting stories today about people claiming to be key workers so as they can send their kids to school then getting grassed up by other parents when they see whose kids are in the classroom on zoom calls.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t see Klopp playing a full team so might be a good game.
		
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Full team or not, its men vs boys, quite literally. 

Our second team dispatched their kids last year, only right they give it us back I suppose


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 8, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I was referring more to Sean Dyche (may be wrong spelling) stating that players and staff should be vaccinated in exchange for the Premiership an EFL paying what they spend on testing to the NHS (so cannot get the vaccine on the open market to lets see if our money talks anywhere else) followed by all of the hosts on the breakfast show on talksport this morning stating that it was a great idea and actually putting forward the serious suggestion that, because footballers could not work from home, they should be treated as Key Workers and be bumped up the vaccination queue.
		
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I used to have a good deal of respect for Dyche as an English manager trying to get a big job and doing it in a reasonable way, but now..no. PL players are not key workers, they are entertainers and that's it. If we were to hear some condemnation of those players breaking the rules, causing games to be cancelled because they are now positive after a party, flight away or whatever against the rules of society right now then I would listen just a little bit more. But we don't hear jack from anyone connected to the game, so stick them at the bottom of the list.
 Just because you get a bucket load of money for running around a grass field, get paid more in a week what most get paid in a year and drive cars more costly than the average house doesn't mean you can ignore the rules in place for everyone protection and can jump the queue for the jab in front of real needy people.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Not being able to work from home does not make you a key worker. I dont really have any sympathy for Premier League footballers, they have enough money to sit at home and wait out the situation. I do have sympathy with the lower leagues of football, though I am not sure how far down the pyramid you need to go to get to people who are on a "normal" wage of lets say £50k (still a high wage)....does anybody know? These clubs are at risk, so therefore these players incomes are too, not sure how many of them are trained in other areas so could get another job (I appreciate it is the same for any other person who is it at risk of losing their job)

It is all about how the public view it, they see footballers having parties over Xmas and everyone gets tainted when we know it is a small % of people doing wrong, this is the same as the general public, the vast majority of us are sticking to the rules/guidelines and doing all we can to get through this as quickly as possible. The consequences of breaking the rules have not been strict enough to deter people across the board, if they were people would quickly stop.
		
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You don't have to go far down the pyramid to get to normal wages. Some at the lower end of the Championship and more than you would think in League 1. A lot of these players won't have any other qualifications or skill. Most should have done some basic coaching qualifications or other similar subjects. But a lot of them don't take it seriously or finish them. 
There is also the problem that the FA has just made a massive number of coach educators redundant. So the coaching opportunities they may have had, has been significantly reduced. That's without the lockdown stopping all coaching anyway. 

Then there are all of the people employed in professional football that aren't players. What happens to them? 

The problem with people's views on football, is they just see the rich players and assume everyone in the game is like that and don't think of the thousands of other people involved. The politics of envy drilled into people in this country clouds the judgment of many.


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## GB72 (Jan 8, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			You don't have to go far down the pyramid to get to normal wages. Some at the lower end of the Championship and more than you would think in League 1. A lot of these players won't have any other qualifications or skill. Most should have done some basic coaching qualifications or other similar subjects. But a lot of them don't take it seriously or finish them.
There is also the problem that the FA has just made a massive number of coach educators redundant. So the coaching opportunities they may have had, has been significantly reduced. That's without the lockdown stopping all coaching anyway.

Then there are all of the people employed in professional football that aren't players. What happens to them?

The problem with people's views on football, is they just see the rich players and assume everyone in the game is like that and don't think of the thousands of other people involved. The politics of envy drilled into people in this country clouds the judgment of many.
		
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I understand and sympathise with much of what you say but I guess that football suffers from its own feelings of self importance, that it is something more significant and meaningful than a form of entertainment. Vaccinating footballers and club staff is no better an idea than, say, vaccinating all musicians and their support crews so as they can set up and stream live gigs. Would be great for many but in the grand scheme of things it is neither important nor fair, practical or wise to go down that route. 

As for the lower leagues, pretty much most people have one skill in which they are experienced enough to carry out a job and if something happens to that industry, they have to re-train. At least footballers know that their career has a lifespan and they are going to need to find another plan in their 30s. Sadly many people find that they cannot continue with their career choice until much later in life and for them it is too late to find a plan B.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I understand and sympathise with much of what you say but I guess that football suffers from its own feelings of self importance, that it is something more significant and meaningful than a form of entertainment. Vaccinating footballers and club staff is no better an idea than, say, vaccinating all musicians and their support crews so as they can set up and stream live gigs. Would be great for many but in the grand scheme of things it is neither important nor fair, practical or wise to go down that route.

As for the lower leagues, pretty much most people have one skill in which they are experienced enough to carry out a job and if something happens to that industry, they have to re-train. At least footballers know that their career has a lifespan and they are going to need to find another plan in their 30s. Sadly many people find that they cannot continue with their career choice until much later in life and for them it is too late to find a plan B.
		
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I have no sympathy for the footballers who have broken the rules, and they should be banned from playing rather than fined, where they have deliberately broken the rules, but its not just footballers - cricketers and rugby players have been equally as bad, but less castigated.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			You don't have to go far down the pyramid to get to normal wages. Some at the lower end of the Championship and more than you would think in League 1. A lot of these players won't have any other qualifications or skill. Most should have done some basic coaching qualifications or other similar subjects. But a lot of them don't take it seriously or finish them.
There is also the problem that the FA has just made a massive number of coach educators redundant. So the coaching opportunities they may have had, has been significantly reduced. That's without the lockdown stopping all coaching anyway.

Then there are all of the people employed in professional football that aren't players. What happens to them?

The problem with people's views on football, is they just see the rich players and assume everyone in the game is like that and don't think of the thousands of other people involved. The politics of envy drilled into people in this country clouds the judgment of many.
		
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Anyone who knows about football knows the lower leagues are suffering.
The main point is the minority of the “elite” think they are just that and testing makes them immune .
People are fed up of political, sports , rich people thinking they can do what they want with virtually no consequences.
It started with Cummings.
Now they think their status should get them to the top of the vaccine list, that should not happen and the public will not like it if it does.


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2021)

FA are too busy giving out a 10 game ban to Trippier for jokingly telling a mate to lump on than wanting to actually address the Covid breaches which are currently making headline news everywhere and causing the virus to spread and game after game to be cancelled. As always their priorities are so wrong


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## GB72 (Jan 8, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I have no sympathy for the footballers who have broken the rules, and they should be banned from playing rather than fined, where they have deliberately broken the rules, but its not just footballers - cricketers and rugby players have been equally as bad, but less castigated.
		
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Rugby at a club level has not been as bad, nor, in the main at international level. The only real issue was the barbarians and they are not much more than a professional drinking team. As for cricket, they have some sympathy as they really are in a bubble for months on end and that can no fun to be locked in a hotel for months on end.


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2021)

This week 66 EFL clubs, tested 3,500 players and staff, 112 tested positive!!!


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## BiMGuy (Jan 8, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I have no sympathy for the footballers who have broken the rules, and they should be banned from playing rather than fined, where they have deliberately broken the rules, but its not just footballers - cricketers and rugby players have been equally as bad, but less castigated.
		
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What about teachers, doctors, office workers and other people doing more normal jobs?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Rugby at a club level has not been as bad, nor, in the main at international level. The only real issue was the barbarians and they are not much more than a professional drinking team. As for cricket, they have some sympathy as they really are in a bubble for months on end and that can no fun to be locked in a hotel for months on end.
		
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So footballers, no excuse, other sports -excuses or sympathy?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			What about teachers, doctors, office workers and other people doing more normal jobs?
		
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Not sure, I'm still considering the meek and the cheesemakers.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 8, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So footballers, no excuse, other sports -excuses or sympathy?
		
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More likely that any transgressions by rugby players would not merit much media attention due to lack of interest on the part of the public.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			What about teachers, doctors, office workers and other people doing more normal jobs?
		
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They are dealt with by the law.

Thing about PL players is they have been given special status to carry on doing their job when most other sports people have been told to stop.
But some still abuse that privilege,that’s why they should be punished differently.
Fines don’t work for rich people , taking their privilege away will.
So ban them from being in a group more than 2 people ,they can’t train or play then.


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## GB72 (Jan 8, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So footballers, no excuse, other sports -excuses or sympathy?
		
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barbarians players were left with large fines and significant bans that they are still serving and roundly condemned. The only main cricket one was Archer and he was also penalised for what was a case of dropping in to his own flat, that was empty, in between leaving the bubble in Hampshire and heading for the bubble in Manchester. Slightly different to the football situations.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2021)

Surprised at that Line up.


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Surprised at that Line up.
		
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chuffed to bits here  backed some of the hcap lines when i heard Villas squad earlier


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## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2021)

Well done......We were 14/1  to win 6-0, once team announced cut to 15/2. Madness


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Well done......We were 14/1  to win 6-0, once team announced cut to 15/2. Madness
		
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-3 on the Asians was 1.85 before, 1.18 after lol, the higher lines even more drastic


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## SteveW86 (Jan 8, 2021)

that’s a tough villa team to beat


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## pauljames87 (Jan 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



View attachment 34383
that’s a tough villa team to beat
		
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So glad to see klopp is using this advantage over villa youth to rest some of the superstars


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So glad to see klopp is using this advantage over villa youth to rest some of the superstars
		
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he has, he just hasnt rested them all


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## SteveW86 (Jan 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So glad to see klopp is using this advantage over villa youth to rest some of the superstars
		
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Maybe with their current form being a bit iffy he wanted a good morale boosting win


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



View attachment 34383
that’s a tough villa team to beat
		
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Not often you see 9 brothers all in the same team. Mr & Mrs Unknown must be very proud parents tonight.


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## SteveW86 (Jan 8, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not often you see 9 brothers all in the same team. Mr & Mrs Unknown must be very proud parents tonight. 

Click to expand...

You’d think it was a Norwich line up


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2021)

Good display from Villa lads .
Left back played very well.
But I hate games like this just attack v defence.
Worst thing was listening to The commentary they were grim.
Turned the sound off second half.
Thiago how good is he.


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Good display from Villa lads .
Left back played very well.
But I hate games like this just attack v defence.
Worst thing was listening to The commentary they were grim.
Turned the sound off second half.
Thiago how good is he.
		
Click to expand...


When Keown is on just hit the mute button at the start, saves plenty of hassle


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## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			-3 on the Asians was 1.85 before, 1.18 after lol, the higher lines even more drastic
		
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ouch😠


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## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2021)

The magic of the fa cup is still there.

Given the circumstances, Villa’s young lads did extremely well. Great to see the young kids face when he slotted.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The magic of the fa cup is still there.

Given the circumstances, Villa’s young lads did extremely well. Great to see the young kids face when he slotted.
		
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Yup. Great goal. Lovely pass through, the kid completely did Williams and a great finish. Thought their keeper looked good too confident and composed. 

Us? Meh. Still not sure about the fluidity. Feels like something big isn't right... But Jurgen knows more about football than I do, so I'll leave it to him!


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## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Yup. Great goal. Lovely pass through, the kid completely did Williams and a great finish. Thought their keeper looked good too confident and composed.

Us? Meh. Still not sure about the fluidity. Feels like something big isn't right... But Jurgen knows more about football than I do, so I'll leave it to him!
		
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After what these boys have given us over the last 2&1/2 years  it was inevitable we were gonna have a dip. I don’t think we’re passing quick enough, everything seems to be a yard off. The disruptions haven’t helped, I’m sure they’ll sort it quickly though.


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## TheDiablo (Jan 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Not being able to work from home does not make you a key worker. I dont really have any sympathy for Premier League footballers, they have enough money to sit at home and wait out the situation. I do have sympathy with the lower leagues of football, though I am not sure how far down the pyramid you need to go to get to people who are on a "normal" wage of lets say £50k (still a high wage)....does anybody know? These clubs are at risk, so therefore these players incomes are too, not sure how many of them are trained in other areas so could get another job (I appreciate it is the same for any other person who is it at risk of losing their job)

It is all about how the public view it, they see footballers having parties over Xmas and everyone gets tainted when we know it is a small % of people doing wrong, this is the same as the general public, the vast majority of us are sticking to the rules/guidelines and doing all we can to get through this as quickly as possible. The consequences of breaking the rules have not been strict enough to deter people across the board, if they were people would quickly stop.
		
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My mate was on £800 a week at Port Vale about 7/8 years ago. They got promoted from L2 to L1 that season and he earned close to 100k at 23 years old incl bonuses. Been bouncing around the conference the last 5 years on about 30-40k total.

He's got a degree, but no work experience. Still a huge amount more than most of his peers who will retire having earned average wage at 30 and have to start afresh


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			ouch😠
		
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well i broke even on that line lol, less so the rest of the evening, could be worse Bayern couldve been 2-0 up and lost


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## Tashyboy (Jan 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			After what these boys have given us over the last 2&1/2 years  it was inevitable we were gonna have a dip. I don’t think we’re passing quick enough, everything seems to be a yard off. The disruptions haven’t helped, I’m sure they’ll sort it quickly though.
		
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looking at Liverpool Now is like looking at City over the last couple of seasons. When City got 100 points, some teams thought they still had a Chance of playing football and simply got blow away. Liverpool have done exactly the same the last Couple of seasons. Blown teams away. This season teams have sat back and Liverpool have had to break down packed defences. The space is not there and they have to be patient. Teams then try and hit on the break. 
The last Couple of years have been tough being a City fan as we have struggled to break down teams. Pep went on record and said he bought Mahrez to help break down teams that sit back. This last couple of weeks City have been getting back to something like City of a couple of years ago. Ironically Diaz at centre half is helping to give City the defensive stability allowing the front five to play a normal game. City look as strong at the back now as they ever did when Vinnie played there. Last season Rodri and Fernandinho played centre half. Teams ripped us to bits notably Jamie Vardy v Fernandinho was a total miss match.
Now looking at Liverpool’s  back four with makeshift centre half’s from the midfield, Yup Ave seen it. Liverpool simply have to grind out results til they can get players back to fitness.
Come what May when City struggled through injuries the plastic fans were screaming for Peps head, the last thing Liverpool want is plastic fans screaming Klopp out. The bottom line to Liverpool’s problems are injuries, not Klopp.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 8, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347634075172016136


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 9, 2021)

Damned if you do, damned if you don't


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## hairball_89 (Jan 9, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			looking at Liverpool Now is like looking at City over the last couple of seasons. When City got 100 points, some teams thought they still had a Chance of playing football and simply got blow away. Liverpool have done exactly the same the last Couple of seasons. Blown teams away. This season teams have sat back and Liverpool have had to break down packed defences. The space is not there and they have to be patient. Teams then try and hit on the break.
The last Couple of years have been tough being a City fan as we have struggled to break down teams. Pep went on record and said he bought Mahrez to help break down teams that sit back. This last couple of weeks City have been getting back to something like City of a couple of years ago. Ironically Diaz at centre half is helping to give City the defensive stability allowing the front five to play a normal game. City look as strong at the back now as they ever did when Vinnie played there. Last season Rodri and Fernandinho played centre half. Teams ripped us to bits notably Jamie Vardy v Fernandinho was a total miss match.
Now looking at Liverpool’s  back four with makeshift centre half’s from the midfield, Yup Ave seen it. Liverpool simply have to grind out results til they can get players back to fitness.
Come what May when City struggled through injuries the plastic fans were screaming for Peps head, the last thing Liverpool want is plastic fans screaming Klopp out. The bottom line to Liverpool’s problems are injuries, not Klopp.
		
Click to expand...

Massively agree. 

I was very vocal over the summer that 3 centre backs and Fabinho was worth it this season, if it meant we could get Thiago in. Clearly I wasn't to know we'd lose 2/3 for 90% of the season, and right now I'd say I was very wrong!

Like pep with mahrez, Jota was brought in to give the option of the 4th attacker and has been bloody brilliant. And is injured! What these boys have done over the last few seasons is beyond insane to me. Anyone even considering calling for Klopp's head deserves their's looking at!  it was bound to catch up with us... I just wish we were 15 points clear before it had! I promise I'm not greedy...!


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## USER1999 (Jan 9, 2021)

How the heck has Martinelli crocked himself in the warm up. It looked like one minute he was standing there, the next, he is on the ground.


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			How the heck has Martinelli crocked himself in the warm up. It looked like one minute he was standing there, the next, he is on the ground.
		
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not the best start, now to put up with 90 mins of Willian and Luiz


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## USER1999 (Jan 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			not the best start, now to put up with 90 mins of Willian and Luiz
		
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At least Runarsson isn't playing. Possibly the worst keeper I have ever seen in an Arsenal shirt, and boy have we had some shockers to choose from.


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

45 mins we wont be getting back 

can we get ESR/Saka on asap please?


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## Tashyboy (Jan 9, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			How the heck has Martinelli crocked himself in the warm up. It looked like one minute he was standing there, the next, he is on the ground.
		
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Did it go to VAR 😳


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			45 mins we wont be getting back 

can we get ESR/Saka on asap please?
		
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Tierney looks excellent for you. If that is his normal level then the team generally needs to improve or he will be off. I can see him being in demand. That's hardly tough to say though, it's obvious.


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## Jensen (Jan 9, 2021)

So, pretty boy Mark Wright from TOWIE is in the squad for Crawley tomorrow, who play Leeds in the FA Cup.
Now I understand he was released by Tottenham as a youngster, but that is a FARCE and disrespectful to the other players.
By including him it’s taking away a dream opportunity for a genuine player.
Total disgrace


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tierney looks excellent for you. If that is his normal level then the team generally needs to improve or he will be off. I can see him being in demand. That's hardly tough to say though, it's obvious.
		
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Since hes been fully fit hes been utterly excellent, been playing as one of the central 3 rather than as a full back but still been getting forward down the left, been one of our best 2 or 3 players this year for sure


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## paddyc (Jan 9, 2021)

Joe Willock I'm sorry but I cannot fathom why he is considered  to be good enough to play PL football.


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Joe Willock I'm sorry but I cannot fathom why he is considered  to be good enough to play PL football.
		
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and still he isnt the worst one out there wearing red tonight


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## paddyc (Jan 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			and still he isnt the worst one out there wearing red tonight 

Click to expand...

Willian,Pepe ?!!


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Willian,Pepe ?!!
		
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yeah and the clown at the back too


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

Quote from twitter: 
Willian's performance v Newcastle: 
1 shot off target 
0 shots on target 
0 chances created 
0 dribbles succeeded 
0 accurate long balls


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## Old Skier (Jan 9, 2021)

Never understood why the gunners went for Willian, wasn’t having Luiz bad enough.


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## paddyc (Jan 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			yeah and the clown at the back too 

Click to expand...

How dare you call David a clown. hasn't put a foot wrong the last 3 games!😁


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Never understood why the gunners went for Willian, wasn’t having Luiz bad enough.
		
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it seems not, seems we want to be the Chelsea pensioners new home. That or Jorabchian and Sanhelli were corrupt. Or both


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

paddyc said:



			How dare you call David a clown. hasn't put a foot wrong the last 3 games!😁
		
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David is a clown
David is a clown
David is a clown

should get him to the end of January hopefully


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			Quote from twitter:
Willian's performance v Newcastle:
1 shot off target
0 shots on target
0 chances created
0 dribbles succeeded
0 accurate long balls
		
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another gem:

Willian has had just two shots on target across all competitions since joining Arsenal.


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## paddyc (Jan 9, 2021)

Auba needs to take a long hard look at his performances. needs to step up big time.


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Auba needs to take a long hard look at his performances. needs to step up big time.
		
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why, hes got a nice big fat contract in his back pocket along with several others, time to put his feet up in the best retirement home in north london

* i sincerely hope im wrong but its getting quite worrying how bad he has been since he signed the contract


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

Great save from Leno, joke decision from Marriner


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## AmandaJR (Jan 9, 2021)

At last VAR does something right. As for the player (Longstaff??) screaming like his leg's been broken...cheating git.


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## USER1999 (Jan 9, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			At last VAR does something right. As for the player (Longstaff??) screaming like his leg's been broken...cheating git.
		
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The yellow went to the wrong player in my view.


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

we obviously need to teach Aubam to scream


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## Jensen (Jan 9, 2021)

Arsenal’s Pepe a classic player who can only use one foot. The number of chances he’s had on his right is phenomenal


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Arsenal’s Pepe a classic player who can only use one foot. The number of chances he’s had on his right is phenomenal
		
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same category as Nigel Winterburn, the right foot is just for standing on sadly


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## USER1999 (Jan 9, 2021)

Good job that Red wax reversed.


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

get in ESR, up yours Marriner


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## Jensen (Jan 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			same category as Nigel Winterburn, the right foot is just for standing on sadly
		
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My pet hate along with a player who passes with the outside of his boot


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## AmandaJR (Jan 9, 2021)

Justice - smoke that Longstaff!


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## USER1999 (Jan 9, 2021)

Good to see Auba get a goal too.


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## paddyc (Jan 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			same category as Nigel Winterburn, the right foot is just for standing on sadly
		
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He used it once!!


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

paddyc said:



			He used it once!!






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was there that day


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 9, 2021)

Whether VAR made the right call, how can some FA cup games have VAR and others not?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Whether VAR made the right call, how can some FA cup games have VAR and others not?
		
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Good question. That seems a very unlevel playing field. Big club syndrome again?


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

how does a VAR decision in 1 game affect what happens in a game without it?

assuming you think VAR gets the best decisions (a jump i know) then surely you us in which ever games you can

why not use in most games because you cant use it in all?

how is it big club syndrome? theoretically works for or against them depending on the decision


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## Tashyboy (Jan 9, 2021)

This is mentioned every year. City  Won at Swansea a couple of years ago,  VAR would of over ruled the decision and City are out.  But Swansea never had VAR.They did the season before and it was taken out coz they were relegated. Whats the idea behind that. Suffice to say City won the FA cup that year.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			how does a VAR decision in 1 game affect what happens in a game without it?

assuming you think VAR gets the best decisions (a jump i know) then surely you us in which ever games you can

why not use in most games because you cant use it in all?

how is it big club syndrome? theoretically works for or against them depending on the decision
		
Click to expand...

Its not a level playing field though is it?

It also makes a mockery of the competition.


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Its not a level playing field though is it?

It also makes a mockery of the competition.
		
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didnt answer any of my points Stu

every game is a level playing field. how is it making a mockery of the competition?


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			didnt answer any of my points Stu

every game is a level playing field. how is it making a mockery of the competition?
		
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They don't play with different balls, or have different size goals so why should VAR be used in one game and not the other?


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			They don't play with different balls, or have different size goals so why should VAR be used in one game and not the other?
		
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instead of asking why should it, why not give reasons why it shouldnt?

why it should; "supposedly" to achieve the best decisions possible in the games where it is available without changing the decisions in other games


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 10, 2021)

fundy said:



			instead of asking why should it, why not give reasons why it shouldnt?

why it should; "supposedly" to achieve the best decisions possible in the games where it is available without changing the decisions in other games
		
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but why should the bigger teams get the advantage of ref correction over the smaller teams?


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## fundy (Jan 10, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			but why should the bigger teams get the advantage of ref correction over the smaller teams?
		
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why are they getting the advantage? their opponents get the same corrections


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## Stuart_C (Jan 10, 2021)

fundy said:



			didnt answer any of my points Stu

every game is a level playing field. how is it making a mockery of the competition?
		
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Sorry Fundy you're right each games are level but each rounds aren't. You're getting wrong decisions rightly overturned in the Arsenal game but wrong decisions not changed in others. That's not right imo.

For me, it's either every game has the same technology whether it's VAR or Goal line tech or non.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 10, 2021)

It now doesn’t bother me about VAR as I stopped watching premier league 2 seasons ago, but different sport, do all courts at Wimbledon have Hawkeye. If not could that be a similar comparison as generally only the top players will have use of the technology.


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## fundy (Jan 10, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry Fundy you're right each games are level but each rounds aren't. You're getting wrong decisions rightly overturned in the Arsenal game but wrong decisions not changed in others. That's not right imo.

For me, it's either every game has the same technology whether it's VAR or Goal line tech or non.
		
Click to expand...


I kind of understand people want everything the same, the bit i dont understand is people saying its not a level playing field and thats sides are getting an advantage when thats clearly not the case


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## Slime (Jan 10, 2021)

Oh dear, Leeds United!


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## fundy (Jan 10, 2021)

About time we heard Bielsa praised for his style of play again lol


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## fundy (Jan 10, 2021)

surely time for Crawley to bring on a reality tv star at 3-0 to really rub it in


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## Tashyboy (Jan 10, 2021)

Slime said:



			Oh dear, Leeds United!
		
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Leeds United have called for an immediate replay against Crawley Town in the FA Cup because one of the plumbers in midfield Isn't Corgi registered!


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## Deleted member 3432 (Jan 10, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Leeds United have called for an immediate replay against Crawley Town in the FA Cup because one of the plumbers in midfield Isn't Corgi registered!
		
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Suspect that if the Leeds players were golfers they turned pro off mid teen handicap....


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## Stuart_C (Jan 10, 2021)

Just been upto Crosby beach for a walk with family and took a walk down by Marine's ground, there's a special buzz around there. Could they pull it off today?? Doubt it but they'll be 100% on it.

Come on Marine!!


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## Jensen (Jan 10, 2021)

Very professional performance by Tottenham first half. Certainly helped by the quality of the pitch. All credit to the ground staff far superior to Crawleys effort


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## Tashyboy (Jan 10, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Very professional performance by Tottenham first half. Certainly helped by the quality of the pitch. All credit to the ground staff far superior to Crawleys effort
		
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Ave gotta say, it speaks volumes for Jose that he has put out a team to do a job.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 10, 2021)

Just seen that the FA cup draw for the next round is actually for the next two rounds. So tomorrow nights draw for the last 16 will also include a draw for the last 16.
Now that could be very interesting indeed.


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## Jensen (Jan 10, 2021)

Shearer is dull as dishwater, he’s like a square peg in a round hole. No personality extremely boring.
Wrighty is great, fantastic personality and came into the game the hard way. He really appreciates grass roots level, unlike Shearer who was disrespectful towards Stevenage Borough


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## Orikoru (Jan 10, 2021)

Jensen said:



			So, pretty boy Mark Wright from TOWIE is in the squad for Crawley tomorrow, who play Leeds in the FA Cup.
Now I understand he was released by Tottenham as a youngster, but that is a FARCE and disrespectful to the other players.
By including him it’s taking away a dream opportunity for a genuine player.
Total disgrace
		
Click to expand...

I was trying to work out what was going on there. I know he was a decent standard player in his youth, but it's 10 years+ since I was at a club, and even then he didn't really make it at pro level, he was knocking around in semi-pro I believe. You can't tell me that after 10 years as a reality star and TV presenter, and now 33 years old, that he's kept his fitness and performance level up enough to actually make the jump up to professional football. That's just.. not possible is it? I did see a trailer for the impending reality show of him training for it and signing though. My guess is, they throw Crawley a load of money to sign him up and give him a few sub appearances, and let them film the documentary of it all. And with no fans for nearly a year they'd be silly to turn it down. 



Jensen said:



			Shearer is dull as dishwater, he’s like a square peg in a round hole. No personality extremely boring.
Wrighty is great, fantastic personality and came into the game the hard way. He really appreciates grass roots level, unlike Shearer who was disrespectful towards Stevenage Borough
		
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Funny, I used to dislike both of them when they first started. Found Shearer boring, as you say, but I do think he's improved a lot over the last decade. I don't mind him now, when he's with Wright and Lineker at least, you can tell they're all good mates and he livens up a bit. Wright I used to find incredibly annoying, I think he used to be too hyper, especially on England games - kind of the total opposite of Shearer. But now he's a bit older he's calmed down a lot and I like him a lot more now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 10, 2021)

Jensen said:



			So, pretty boy Mark Wright from TOWIE is in the squad for Crawley tomorrow, who play Leeds in the FA Cup.
Now I understand he was released by Tottenham as a youngster, but that is a FARCE and disrespectful to the other players.
By including him it’s taking away a dream opportunity for a genuine player.
Total disgrace
		
Click to expand...

Sorry I’m confused at this ?

He was quite clearly a very good player in his youth and well on his way to becoming a professional footballer, he then went mad one summer and stopped working hard when he dropped down the leagues. 

He is now trying to do it again ableit later in life and has signed a contract with the team so he is a professional footballer

Why is it disrespectful if he has proven he can do the job ?


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## Beezerk (Jan 10, 2021)

🙈


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## Orikoru (Jan 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry I’m confused at this ?

He was quite clearly a very good player in his youth and well on his way to becoming a professional footballer, he then went mad one summer and stopped working hard when he dropped down the leagues.

He is now trying to do it again ableit later in life and has signed a contract with the team so he is a professional footballer

Why is it disrespectful if he has proven he can do the job ?
		
Click to expand...

As per my post just above yours - you don't think it's a little suspect that at the age of 33, having been a presenter/reality person for ten years (i.e. not in regular football training), he's somehow signed at a level he failed to make it at when he was in his early 20s?? Most players who have trained their whole lives are starting to find it harder at age 33. Not coming into their prime despite having a decade out of the game. It doesn't add up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 10, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As per my post just above yours - you don't think it's a little suspect that at the age of 33, having been a presenter/reality person for ten years (i.e. not in regular football training), he's somehow signed at a level he failed to make it at when he was in his early 20s?? Most players who have trained their whole lives are starting to find it harder at age 33. Not coming into their prime despite having a decade out of the game. It doesn't add up.
		
Click to expand...

Right now I’ll take it at face value - someone getting a second chance , he will only play if deemed good enough. Believe he has played for them before in the past.


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## Orikoru (Jan 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now I’ll take it at face value - someone getting a second chance , he will only play if deemed good enough. Believe he has played for them before in the past.
		
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I'll be very surprised if he's still on the books for a lot longer than the accompanying documentary is on for, put it that way.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 11, 2021)

Wondering when the AVFC v Spurs game will be called this week.

9 of our first team squad positive, everyone else still isolating and apparently Jose wants us to field our kids again - I hope we dont!

Newcastle got a rearranged fixture against us with less cases, as have other clubs, I remain hopeful our game gets cancelled today at some point!


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## Tashyboy (Jan 11, 2021)

Don’t know if this should be on the Scottish Football thread. But all games and leagues cancelled below the Scottish  prem league.
Yet Celtic have 13 players isolating and the game is going ahead tonight 🤔


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## Deleted member 3432 (Jan 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t know if this should be on the Scottish Football thread. But all games and leagues cancelled below the Scottish  prem league.
Yet Celtic have 13 players isolating and the game is going ahead tonight 🤔
		
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Its all about the cash......


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## Orikoru (Jan 11, 2021)

Might as well end that now, haven't Rangers basically sown it up already? Celtic must have some clown in charge to let that happen already. I thought it would be a few years before Rangers competed again.


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## Kellfire (Jan 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t know if this should be on the Scottish Football thread. But all games and leagues cancelled below the Scottish  prem league.
Yet Celtic have 13 players isolating and the game is going ahead tonight 🤔
		
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Pretty sure you had all the evidence that this should have been on the Scottish football thread. 😬


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## GreiginFife (Jan 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Might as well end that now, haven't Rangers basically sown it up already? Celtic must have some clown in charge to let that happen already. *I thought it would be a few years before Rangers competed again*.
		
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Not sure the main competition imploding spontaneously counts as competing...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2021)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-guardiola-questions-new-celebration-guidance

Maybe they should do their part


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## pauljames87 (Jan 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...-guardiola-questions-new-celebration-guidance

Maybe they should do their part
		
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Lol with Haller thrown to the wolves for not smiling imagine what the knuckle draggers will think when they don't celebrate


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2021)

FA Cup Draw 

Man Utd vs Liverpool 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Jan 11, 2021)

Shrewsbury v Arsenal looks a decent draw for us


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## Tashyboy (Jan 11, 2021)

Utd v Liverpool 😁


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 11, 2021)

Could be interesting time in work as my ward clerk is a Burnley fan. Going to hate sacking her if we lose


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## Beezerk (Jan 11, 2021)

Easy draw for us


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## Orikoru (Jan 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...-guardiola-questions-new-celebration-guidance

Maybe they should do their part
		
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That is ridiculous to be fair. If we're at the point that they can't celebrate a goal together, then we should be playing the games at all should we? It's actually insane that football is still happening with all the cases that are turning up. I'm not complaining since watching football is literally the only thing to do now, but I just can't believe it's still going.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			Shrewsbury v Arsenal looks a decent draw for us 

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Didnt realise youbwere a Shrewsbury fan


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## GreiginFife (Jan 11, 2021)

Kaz said:



			How many titles did Celtic win that way? 

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Oh come now Karen, Rangers implosion was tremendously far from spontaneous 🤣


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## fundy (Jan 11, 2021)

If only there was a Scottish Fitba thread eh........


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## fundy (Jan 11, 2021)

Kaz said:



			We're with Tash 

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someone has to be


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## SteveW86 (Jan 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			If only there was a Scottish Fitba thread eh........
		
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Should we have an FA Cup thread too?

I think there is enough deviation at times for a little leeway every now and then.


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## Orikoru (Jan 12, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Should we have an FA Cup thread too?

I think there is enough deviation at times for a little leeway every now and then.
		
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Why not just rename this the football thread? By rights we shouldn't be talking about Champion's League, League Cup, Charity Shield, you name it; or the England team or international tournaments either.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Why not just rename this the football thread? By rights we shouldn't be talking about Champion's League, League Cup, Charity Shield, you name it; or the England team or international tournaments either. 

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Call it English football thread .. don't need that amateur league in here 🤣


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## sunshine (Jan 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As per my post just above yours - you don't think it's a little suspect that at the age of 33, having been a presenter/reality person for ten years (i.e. not in regular football training), he's somehow signed at a level he failed to make it at when he was in his early 20s?? Most players who have trained their whole lives are starting to find it harder at age 33. Not coming into their prime despite having a decade out of the game. It doesn't add up.
		
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No surely it's just coincidence that his stoppage time token appearance coincides with a reality tv show


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## sunshine (Jan 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t know if this should be on the Scottish Football thread. But all games and leagues cancelled below the Scottish  prem league.
Yet Celtic have 13 players isolating and the game is going ahead tonight 🤔
		
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Only elite sport is supposed to be continuing. That rules out all Scottish football


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## sunshine (Jan 12, 2021)

Ebere Eze and Alan Pardew in the crowd at QPR v Fulham. What were they doing there? It wasn't an essential journey, why does football colllectively think it is exempt from the law? Especially Eze, the Palace squad must be under strict instructions after Milivojevic broke lockdown over new year. Eze was a guest of QPR - he seems like a nice lad but he's got to take personal responsibility for himself. As for QPR well they are acting like morons.

Could say the same about Jamie Carragher spotted at Marine. And the hundreds  of fans gathering to greet the team coaches. I'm sure there's more examples.

Think we are at the point where all football needs to stop. The optics are continuing to be terrible, it's setting a dreadful example for the rest of the country.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Ebere Eze and Alan Pardew in the crowd at QPR v Fulham. What were they doing there? It wasn't an essential journey, why does football colllectively think it is exempt from the law? Especially Eze, the Palace squad must be under strict instructions after Milivojevic broke lockdown over new year. Eze was a guest of QPR - he seems like a nice lad but he's got to take personal responsibility for himself. As for QPR well they are acting like morons.

Could say the same about Jamie Carragher spotted at Marine. And the hundreds  of fans gathering to greet the team coaches. I'm sure there's more examples.

Think we are at the point where all football needs to stop. The optics are continuing to be terrible, it's setting a dreadful example for the rest of the country.
		
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What I don’t understand is the situation is worse than during the first lockdown when football was suspended. Yet they are still playing. The players have proven at many levels they cannot behave so stop the season. On a positive it gives Liverpool time to get players fit so if they win the league again they can have a second * at the side of this years * on there shirts 😁👍


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## pauljames87 (Jan 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			What I don’t understand is the situation is worse than during the first lockdown when football was suspended. Yet they are still playing. The players have proven at many levels they cannot behave so stop the season. On a positive it gives Liverpool time to get players fit so if they win the league again they can have a second * at the side of this years * on there shirts 😁👍
		
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Na more evidence for null and void this year after the fans being so unbearable 🤣


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## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Na more evidence for null and void this year after the fans being so unbearable 🤣
		
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😳🤔😂


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## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2021)

Watching Sheff Utd v Newcastle is like watching City in the 80,s 90,s and part of the noughties. 😣


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## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2021)

Am looking at that penalty decision and think it is a shocker, yes it touches the Newcastle players hand.  But Billy sharpe has a handful of shirt. if he don’t have the shirt the players not pulled, it don’t touch the arm. That was a 50/50 challenge all day. What am I missing Here.


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## Orikoru (Jan 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am looking at that penalty decision and think it is a shocker, yes it touches the Newcastle players hand.  But Billy sharpe has a handful of shirt. if he don’t have the shirt the players not pulled, it don’t touch the arm. That was a 50/50 challenge all day. What am I missing Here.
		
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Your mistake is attempting to apply common sense. No job at the FA for you I'm afraid.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Your mistake is attempting to apply common sense. No job at the FA for you I'm afraid.
		
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There is a god after all. 😁


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 12, 2021)

Sexy goal from Everton. Good to have Rodriguez pulling strings again.

Oops, tidy finish from Neves.

Good game so far.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am looking at that penalty decision and think it is a shocker, yes it touches the Newcastle players hand.  But Billy sharpe has a handful of shirt. if he don’t have the shirt the players not pulled, it don’t touch the arm. That was a 50/50 challenge all day. What am I missing Here.
		
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You missed the nailed on red card for Sharpe that was just nasty,


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## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You missed the nailed on red card for Sharpe that was just nasty,
		
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I saw it but by then I had lost the will to live, watching it reminded me to much of Stuart Pearce when he was manager at City.

Now theres 2 decent games on Missis T is watching emmerdale 🤬


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## nickjdavis (Jan 12, 2021)

Embarrassing by Newcastle tonight. Up until now I've been willing to give Bruce every chance, but to choose not to attack against the team who are bottom of the league is simply unforgiveable. An utterly dreadful performance that leaves me fuming to the point of profanity....

******* ******* ***** ** *********** ******** *** ** * **** ** * ******* ******** ** * *** ******* ******

The time has come....Bruce OUT!!!


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## pauljames87 (Jan 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You missed the nailed on red card for Sharpe that was just nasty,
		
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He's always been pure filth


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## fundy (Jan 12, 2021)

how does Shaw not get red there too? so inconsistent


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			how does Shaw not get red there too? so inconsistent
		
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Could have been a red at either end. But how painful AGAIN was it for the viewer and the players waiting around.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			how does Shaw not get red there too? so inconsistent
		
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Despite what Neville said I actually thought that Shaw got the ball. The follow through wasn't great but not sure it was bad enough for a red.


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## fundy (Jan 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Despite what Neville said I actually thought that Shaw got the ball. The follow through wasn't great but not sure it was bad enough for a red.
		
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Its been good enough for plenty of similar ones to be red lately. Either these follow through fouls are all red or none are surely


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## Kellfire (Jan 12, 2021)

I think Shaw got enough of the ball for it to only be a yellow as his foot bounced up but I wouldn’t have argued much if he’d seen red.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			Its been good enough for plenty of similar ones to be red lately. *Either these follow through fouls are all red or none are surely*

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Got to depend on the force used. A big two footed lunge with a follow through is very different to what Shaw did.


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## SteveW86 (Jan 12, 2021)

Shaw gets the ball first then the follow through catches the shin. Reds have been given for that in the past, but also not given. As ever it’s the inconsistency that’s the problem.


No problem for me with the Maguire goal, got up nice and early and the defender just seemed to get lost beneath the cross


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## Beezerk (Jan 12, 2021)

Looked a red to me, he went for the ball but then clearly tracked the players leg and stamped on it.


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## Junior (Jan 12, 2021)

Shaw got the ball,  I think a yellow was a fair call. Have seen reds given for that though.  

Maguires goal should have stood.  Big Dunc and Quinny made a living out of goals like that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2021)

It’s a tackle that players have seen red and some seen yellow - all down to the refs interpretation. The inconsistency for those type of tackles is down to the interpretation.


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## Orikoru (Jan 12, 2021)

I think yellow for Shaw. He got plenty of the ball first, and yes he's caught the player but your foot has to go somewhere if you slide in? I don't want every one of these to be a red or you'll simply see slide tackles eradicated from the game entirely.


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## Slime (Jan 12, 2021)




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## Kellfire (Jan 12, 2021)

We just took a free kick for offside in the other team’s half. Quality stuff. 😬😬


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## Slime (Jan 12, 2021)

The word on the street is that United are 3 points clear at the top of the league!


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## Slime (Jan 12, 2021)

Slime said:



			The word on the street is that United are 3 points clear at the top of the league!
		
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## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2021)

Flippin eck it’s quiet on here tonight 😳😂


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think yellow for Shaw. He got plenty of the ball first, and yes he's caught the player but your foot has to go somewhere if you slide in? I don't want every one of these to be a red or you'll simply see slide tackles eradicated from the game entirely.
		
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The ref didn’t even give a foul though until VAR brought it back.
Then he booked him.??


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			We just took a free kick for offside in the other team’s half. Quality stuff. 😬😬
		
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One last week for a back pass given outside the box.
Basics, and these refs are supposed to be the best.


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## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The ref didn’t even give a foul though until VAR brought it back.
Then he booked him.??
		
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Err yes - correct. What are you asking?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 13, 2021)

Pogba scores a cracker and nothings mentioned from the Pogba haters🤔

Imagine the reaction on here if "Bruno" had scored that goal last night, there'd be wet knickers aots.😄😉


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## Kellfire (Jan 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Pogba scores a cracker and nothings mentioned from the Pogba haters🤔

Imagine the reaction on here if "Bruno" had scored that goal last night, there'd be wet knickers aots.😄😉
		
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Another deflected goal though. Keeper had it covered otherwise.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Pogba scores a cracker and nothings mentioned from the Pogba haters🤔

Imagine the reaction on here if "Bruno" had scored that goal last night, there'd be wet knickers aots.😄😉
		
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Too busy watching a proper match last night .

Was it not a deflection? (I haven't seen it so happy to be corrected) Anyway, he has been there for 4 years now, signed for around £90 plus agents fees plus salary. Does anyone think he has given value for money? Anyone think he has been world class for Utd?

If Liverpool could sign Fernandes or Pogba which would you go for?

I know the post was looking for a bite but as a genuine point he has been a bad buy for them. Long may they keep making them.


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## sam85 (Jan 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Too busy watching a proper match last night .

Was it not a deflection? (I haven't seen it so happy to be corrected) Anyway, he has been there for 4 years now, signed for around *£90* plus agents fees plus salary. Does anyone think he has given value for money? Anyone think he has been world class for Utd?

If Liverpool could sign Fernandes or Pogba which would you go for?

I know the post was looking for a bite but as a genuine point he has been a bad buy for them. Long may they keep making them.
		
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At £90 Pogba was an absolute steal


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2021)

sam85 said:



			At £90 Pogba was an absolute steal 

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Ha ha, fair point. I suppose he was worth that for his social media presence. His efforts on the pitch , less so


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ha ha, fair point. I suppose he was worth that for his social media presence. His efforts on the pitch , less so
		
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Being an Evertonian I expect you will have become quite expert in poor signings over the years.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Being an Evertonian I expect you will have become quite expert in poor signings over the years.
		
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Too right. Buying in Mr Walsh from Leicester to handle recruitment did not go well for us. He burned through a huge sum of money on a significant number of bog average players. He never blew £90m on one show pony mind, we waste more in the £15-40m category


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Too right. Buying in Mr Walsh from Leicester to handle recruitment did not go well for us. He burned through a huge sum of money on a significant number of bog average players. He never blew £90m on one show pony mind, we waste more in the £15-40m category 

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But all things are relative .

Man U "wasting" £90 million is akin to Everton's £30-£35 million.

This is confirmed by your experience with Steve Walsh. He was successful  at Leicester operating on a smaller budget and identifying potential  rather than proven talent.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Err yes - correct. What are you asking?
		
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Not asking anything.
But any decent ref would have seen that was a foul by Shaw!
But Var was looking to send a Burnley player off for a foul on Cavarni until they went back to the Shaw foul that should have been seen in the first place.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Too busy watching a proper match last night .

Was it not a deflection? (I haven't seen it so happy to be corrected) Anyway, he has been there for 4 years now, signed for around £90 plus agents fees plus salary. Does anyone think he has given value for money? Anyone think he has been world class for Utd?

If Liverpool could sign Fernandes or Pogba which would you go for?

I know the post was looking for a bite but as a genuine point he has been a bad buy for them. Long may they keep making them.
		
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Fernandes but we have enough divers as it is.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			But all things are relative .

Man U "wasting" £90 million is akin to Everton's £30-£35 million.

This is confirmed by your experience with Steve Walsh. He was successful  at Leicester operating on a smaller budget and identifying potential  rather than proven talent.
		
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True, still wasted though.

Fernandes however was money very well spent by Utd, sadly


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Fernandes but we have enough divers as it is.

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They could synchronise, practice and refine together?

On a separate point, Villa v Everton may be off at the weekend because Villa's 1st team keep licking each other. If playing the kids was required for the Cup, bring it on for the the PL  (this opinion may be somewhat biased and out of self interest)


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They could synchronise, practice and refine together?

On a separate point, Villa v Everton may be off at the weekend because Villa's 1st team keep licking each other. If playing the kids was required for the Cup, bring it on for the the PL  (this opinion may be somewhat biased and out of self interest)
		
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The way it’s going it must be part of all PL teams training ,diving practice.
As long as they only lick themselves fine.
It’s why they have a big squad .
So play the game or stop football altogether.


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## Junior (Jan 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Pogba scores a cracker and nothings mentioned from the Pogba haters🤔

Imagine the reaction on here if "Bruno" had scored that goal last night, there'd be wet knickers aots.😄😉
		
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Hahahaha stop fishing  

The humble amongst us know we've been on these runs before in recent times and its all turned to poop.   Best thing to to is keep quiet so anything said doesn't come back and bite you in the arse.


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## sunshine (Jan 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			What I don’t understand is the situation is worse than during the first lockdown when football was suspended. Yet they are still playing.
		
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The theory: last year lockdown was a bit of a surprise and nobody was ready for it, but now the clubs have developed well established protocols to operate in a secure environment and thus minimise the risk of infection and transmission.

Of course, this ignores one major factor: the fact that footballers are entitled prima donnas who do whatever they want. I'm being harsh on footballers, this country is full of people who refuse to follow rules for the benefit of others.


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## sunshine (Jan 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The way it’s going it must be part of all PL teams training ,diving practice.
		
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Some players definitely have better technique than others. The experts have learnt to leave their trailing foot behind to ensure contact, or put their trail foot behind them so they trip themselves up, which is the most convincing because the player genuinely falls over. They must be practising.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 13, 2021)

Junior said:



			Hahahaha stop fishing  

The humble amongst us know we've been on these runs before in recent times and its all turned to poop.   Best thing to to is keep quiet so anything said doesn't come back and bite you in the arse.
		
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Look Tashyboy don’t need any encouragement to have a wind up and a bit of banter with the Utd fans For obvious reasons. But I have noticed a significant reduction in Utd fans being let’s say “ over exuberant “. Not sure whether it’s due to Utd being rammel for a few years or what. But another thing that surprised me. Ollie has lost 4 semi finals during his Rocky tenure. That tells me there not far off From getting the silver polish out.
Like I said a week ago this weekend clash between Utd and Liverpool and the FA cup could make or break a season. Personally o think the games have come at a better time for Utd than Liverpool.


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## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Some players definitely have better technique than others. The experts have learnt to leave their trailing foot behind to ensure contact, or put their trail foot behind them so they trip themselves up, which is the most convincing because the player genuinely falls over. They must be practising.
		
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Vardy is one of the best at winning penalties - he'll bend his run towards a defender's leg so they have no option but to trip him, and then he's straight down. It's an art. Kane does it will too. For me it's distinct from 'diving' though as you manufacture a foul from a lazy defender who hangs a leg out. I consider diving as just throwing yourself down with no contact at all.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Vardy is one of the best at winning penalties - he'll bend his run towards a defender's leg so they have no option but to trip him, and then he's straight down. It's an art. Kane does it will too. For me it's distinct from 'diving' though as you manufacture a foul from a lazy defender who hangs a leg out. I consider diving as just throwing yourself down with no contact at all.
		
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Have a look on the BBC site re the Palmerias game V Boca. There’s some Ideal footage of where Boca were denied 2 penalties. One of them looked nailed on. However VAR showed it was a blatant dive with no contact what so ever.


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## fundy (Jan 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Vardy is one of the best at winning penalties - he'll bend his run towards a defender's leg so they have no option but to trip him, and then he's straight down. It's an art. Kane does it will too. For me it's distinct from 'diving' though as you manufacture a foul from a lazy defender who hangs a leg out. I consider diving as just throwing yourself down with no contact at all.
		
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Utter garbage imho. Still diving, still cheating, sounds like youve been listening to too many washed up commentators. That or youre trying to excuse Kane and hiding him behind Vardy. Or both


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## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			Utter garbage imho. Still diving, still cheating, sounds like youve been listening to too many washed up commentators. That or youre trying to excuse Kane and hiding him behind Vardy. Or both
		
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It's not the same, because one requires the defender to put a half-arsed lazy tackle in, for which they pay the price. If you tackle in the box you need to win the ball. 

Also, even with what I consider _actual_ diving I think the response is way overblown from a lot of people. By the same token, appealing for a throw-in that isn't yours is cheating. Defenders who throw their hands up 'innocently' when they know they've made contact is cheating. It's directly lying to the ref - but no outrage about that. If someone attempts a dive and fails, they should get booked (this doesn't happen enough admittedly, with VAR it should be easy) and that should be an end to it. No real need to moan about it for the rest of the day.


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## sunshine (Jan 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Vardy is one of the best at winning penalties - he'll bend his run towards a defender's leg so they have no option but to trip him, and then he's straight down. It's an art. Kane does it will too. For me it's distinct from 'diving' though as you manufacture a foul from a lazy defender who hangs a leg out. I consider diving as just throwing yourself down with no contact at all.
		
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Running across a defender has always been part of the game in my lifetime, I can remember being coached it at school in the 90s. Vardy is excellent at this. Like you, I don't think it's diving, it's just encouraging contact and forcing an error from a defender.

I have a problem with players going down without contact, or where the contact is miniscule, or where they initiate the contact. Salah is blatant at throwing himself over a defender's leg, he's usually started to go down before contact, it looks terrible and I don't understand how referees fall for it so often. Kane is very good at using contact to trip himself up, it doesn't look like a dive at all, in fact he's not in control of how he falls. Ronaldo has excelled at this. It's so subtle it's masterful.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 13, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Running across a defender has always been part of the game in my lifetime, I can remember being coached it at school in the 90s. Vardy is excellent at this. Like you, I don't think it's diving, it's just encouraging contact and forcing an error from a defender.

I have a problem with players going down without contact, or where the contact is miniscule, or where they initiate the contact. Salah is blatant at throwing himself over a defender's leg, he's usually started to go down before contact, it looks terrible and I don't understand how referees fall for it so often. Kane is very good at using contact to trip himself up, it doesn't look like a dive at all, in fact he's not in control of how he falls. Ronaldo has excelled at this. It's so subtle it's masterful.
		
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Your second paragraph, that was Billy sharp last night. He is tugging the defenders shirt which causes arm onto the ball. Billy sharp goes down for good measure. My grief was the ref went and had a look at the screen. As Soon as the ref saw Billy sharp have hold of the defenders shirt he should of blown for a free kick against Sharpy. Why didnt he.


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## DanFST (Jan 13, 2021)

Agreed with the above. With VAR it's easy to spot, but nothing happens. 

I'm also peeved that nothing happens when a player takes a huge touch forcing the ball out of reach, or straight to a defender. Then continues to run straight into the goalie or an outstretched leg. Not sure how it's a penalty when you are no longer in control of the ball.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 13, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Agreed with the above. With VAR it's easy to spot, but nothing happens.

I'm also peeved that nothing happens when a player takes a huge touch forcing the ball out of reach, or straight to a defender. Then continues to run straight into the goalie or an outstretched leg. Not sure how it's a penalty when you are no longer in control of the ball.
		
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Having been brought up on the assumption that football is a contact sport. It seems that attackers have a massive advantage when the play is in the penalty box. It seems that the slightest of touches and an attacker is down. As a manager you want to see defenders making challenges. Refs wanted VAR to help them, it seems to me refs are not using VAR to its full potential when they have the opportunity of using it.
Don't even get me started on why a linesman does not flag when a player is 5 yds offside and let’s play continue.


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## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Running across a defender has always been part of the game in my lifetime, I can remember being coached it at school in the 90s. Vardy is excellent at this. Like you, I don't think it's diving, it's just encouraging contact and forcing an error from a defender.

I have a problem with players going down without contact, or where the contact is miniscule, or where they initiate the contact. Salah is blatant at throwing himself over a defender's leg, he's usually started to go down before contact, it looks terrible and I don't understand how referees fall for it so often. Kane is very good at using contact to trip himself up, it doesn't look like a dive at all, in fact he's not in control of how he falls. Ronaldo has excelled at this. It's so subtle it's masterful.
		
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Fully agree. Someone like Kane may sound thick as  in an interview, but on the pitch he's a genius, whenever he gets the ball in the box he's thinking can I get half a yard on my right foot for a shot, if not then my left foot, and if not then can I put myself a difficult position for the defender where he'll potentially foul me, or make a poor attempt at a challenge that I can exploit - all in the space of a second.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Having been brought up on the assumption that football is a contact sport. It seems that attackers have a massive advantage when the play is in the penalty box. It seems that the slightest of touches and an attacker is down. As a manager you want to see defenders making challenges. Refs wanted VAR to help them, it seems to me refs are not using VAR to its full potential when they have the opportunity of using it.
Don't even get me started on why a linesman does not flag when a player is 5 yds offside and let’s play continue.
		
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One last night where Brewster (shef wed) must have been 10yds offside but no flag until his shot was in the stands.
Close ones yes keep it down but that was just ridiculous and wasting time.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			One last night where Brewster (shef wed) must have been 10yds offside but no flag until his shot was in the stands.
Close ones yes keep it down but that was just ridiculous and wasting time.
		
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That was the offside that I could not get my head around, if the Lino cannot see that and flag the game is proper screwed. If your at a game and see that the crowd is gonna go ballistic. Plus letting the play develop. Someone is gonna get injured. Everyone says it, everyone sees it. So why let it happen. Marginals I can understand but 5-10 yds no way.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 13, 2021)

The keeper keeping us alive at the moment. Not creating anything (not unusual) and too much pretty stuff without purpose


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## Stuart_C (Jan 13, 2021)

Junior said:



*Hahahaha stop fishing* 

The humble amongst us know we've been on these runs before in recent times and its all turned to poop.   Best thing to to is keep quiet so anything said doesn't come back and bite you in the arse.
		
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Was I that obvious? 😂😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 13, 2021)

Great point and more than a match for Spurs in the second half and had chances to nick it. Happy with that (don't say that often)


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## Tashyboy (Jan 13, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The keeper keeping us alive at the moment. Not creating anything (not unusual) and too much pretty stuff without purpose
		
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flippin eck Homer you even get it wrong with your own lot 😁

good point. Be kind on Ori 😉


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			flippin eck Homer you even get it wrong with your own lot 😁

good point. Be kind on Ori 😉
		
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Were a different side in the 2nd half and could have nicked it.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 14, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Were a different side in the 2nd half and could have nicked it.
		
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How did scott parkers apology to Jose go 🤣🤣🤣


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## Orikoru (Jan 14, 2021)

Honestly can't be arsed with this season anymore. Not a single team has any consistency. I'd be losing interest if it wasn't for fact there's literally nothing else to do but watch it right now. Null and void it! Give United the asterisk this time.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Honestly can't be arsed with this season anymore. Not a single team has any consistency. I'd be losing interest if it wasn't for fact there's literally nothing else to do but watch it right now. Null and void it! Give United the asterisk this time.
		
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Sweet god man, an asterix for Utd. Mind you wouldn’t be the first cockney to want Utd to win something 🤔😉

That aside, what’s happened to Spurs, I thought Jose had found a winning formula. Although his fascination in believing Alli can do a good job on the bench even has me perplexed.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Honestly can't be arsed with this season anymore. Not a single team has any consistency. I'd be losing interest if it wasn't for fact there's literally nothing else to do but watch it right now. Null and void it! Give United the asterisk this time.
		
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That’s a bit unfair Sheffield United have been consistent until this week.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a bit unfair Sheffield United have been consistent until this week.
		
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In the day and age of fans taking great pleasure in winding one another up. A Sheff Utd fan posted on fb the other day that Sheff Utd have won more games than Liverpool this year. Just about sums this year up. 
Ave a feeling this years title race could be one of the best ever.last game of the season and three or four teams could win it 😁


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## Orikoru (Jan 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Sweet god man, an asterix for Utd. Mind you wouldn’t be the first cockney to want Utd to win something 🤔😉

That aside, *what’s happened to Spurs*, I thought Jose had found a winning formula. Although his fascination in believing Alli can do a good job on the bench even has me perplexed.
		
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Usually we sit back on a 1-0 lead, thinking we can keep a clean sheet before remembering our defence isn't good enough for that and concede late on. But last night I must admit it didn't seem that way for once, we did still go at them while leading, but apparently we hit the woodwork 9 times! And we're still not good enough at the back to keep a clean sheet - especially when Toby is being rested as he's the only top class defender we have! So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

For all the plaudits Kane and Son get, we're not scoring enough goals when we're on the front foot in games. If we're going to sit back on a lead it needs to be 2-0, not 1-0, because as I mentioned, we're probably going to concede once in most games. 30 may look like a decent total of goals, but when you remember we put 6 past United and 5 past Southampton - both decent sides near the top of the league - it shows you that in the other games we've not punished the bottom half teams enough. 1-1s with Newcastle, Palace, and now Fulham, and even scraped 1-0 victories over Burnley and West Brom should have brought more goals.


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## Orikoru (Jan 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			In the day and age of fans taking great pleasure in winding one another up. A Sheff Utd fan posted on fb the other day that Sheff Utd have won more games than Liverpool this year. Just about sums this year up.
Ave a feeling this years* title race could be one of the best ever*.last game of the season and three or four teams could win it 😁
		
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You say best, I say worst. I prefer the ones where there's two or maybe three excellent sides winning games to outdo each other (like the year when City pipped Liverpool and they had like 99, 98 points). Not the years when everyone is poor and falling over themselves to give the title to each other.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			In the day and age of fans taking great pleasure in winding one another up. A Sheff Utd fan posted on fb the other day that Sheff Utd have won more games than Liverpool this year. Just about sums this year up.
Ave a feeling this years title race could be one of the best ever.last game of the season and three or four teams could win it 😁
		
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Most teams losing players to COVID and injuries kills consistently.
The biggest consistent thing is how bad the reffing has been and VAR backing up shocking decisions.

Hope your right but only one team needs a good run and they will probably win it as it’s very lacklustre atm.
City looking very good if you can stop them going to parties, score more goals and stop Sterling taking the penalties.
Foden looking the player he could be in the future.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Usually we sit back on a 1-0 lead, thinking we can keep a clean sheet before remembering our defence isn't good enough for that and concede late on. But last night I must admit it didn't seem that way for once, we did still go at them while leading, but apparently we hit the woodwork 9 times! And we're still not good enough at the back to keep a clean sheet - especially when Toby is being rested as he's the only top class defender we have! So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

For all the plaudits Kane and Son get, *we're not scoring enough goals *when we're on the front foot in games. If we're going to sit back on a lead it needs to be 2-0, not 1-0, because as I mentioned, we're probably going to concede once in most games. 30 may look like a decent total of goals, but when you remember we put 6 past United and 5 past Southampton - both decent sides near the top of the league - it shows you that in the other games we've not punished the bottom half teams enough. 1-1s with Newcastle, Palace, and now Fulham, and even scraped 1-0 victories over Burnley and West Brom should have brought more goals.
		
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Amen to that from a City point of view. City’s defence is excellent.The best in the league. When has that ever been said about one of Peps teams. But look at how many goals have been scored. From a team of Peps flowing football, creating numerous chances. Goals scored is shocking.  City’s highest goal scorer this year. Phil Foden 😳


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## Tashyboy (Jan 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Most teams losing players to COVID and injuries kills consistently.
The biggest consistent thing is how bad the reffing has been and VAR backing up shocking decisions.

Hope your right but only one team needs a good run and they will probably win it as it’s very lacklustre atm.
City looking very good if you can stop them going to parties, score more goals and stop Sterling taking the penalties.
Foden looking the player he could be in the future.
		
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City could well be top by the end of January with the “ easy” games, and I use that term very loosely. But Feb and April are stinkers when it comes to City’s fixtures.
That said I look forward to when Foden and Ferran Torres get to play in the same team.


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## Orikoru (Jan 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Amen to that from a City point of view. City’s defence is excellent.The best in the league. When has that ever been said about one of Peps teams. But look at how many goals have been scored. From a team of Peps flowing football, creating numerous chances. Goals scored is shocking.  City’s highest goal scorer this year. Phil Foden 😳
		
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We've mentioned it before but Jesus is about 50% of the player Aguero is, if that. If Aguero hasn't got it in him anymore then you desperately need to sign a new forward. Aguero is a huge miss, he'd probably have at least 10 goals by now the way you've been playing lately.

As you mentioned Foden, that lad is absolutely top class. I'd have him starting for England now - along with Grealish - we have to find room for both of them to play.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			City could well be top by the end of January with the “ easy” games, and I use that term very loosely. But Feb and April are stinkers when it comes to City’s fixtures.
That said I look forward to when Foden and Torres get to play in the same team.
		
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No easy games in the PL.
All the top teams seem to be struggling putting their chances away.
Very strange.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			We've mentioned it before but Jesus is about 50% of the player Aguero is, if that. If Aguero hasn't got it in him anymore then you desperately need to sign a new forward. Aguero is a huge miss, he'd probably have at least 10 goals by now the way you've been playing lately.

As you mentioned Foden, that lad is absolutely top class. I'd have him starting for England now - along with Grealish - we have to find room for both of them to play.
		
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Jesus is a player who has City fans divided. Me I think he is fantastic but in the wrong team. But again. Pep brings a striker on last night and puts him on the wing 😳. City were unbalanced so he brought on Sterling put him on the wing and Jesus up front.
That aside Peps handling of Foden has been fantastic. He was getting some serious flak for not playing him more, yet look at him flourish now. Him and KDB have a fantastic understanding.City’s recent good run is down to the defence and Foden gelling Like he has been there years.Which he has.
Odd re City and academy players.Pep was slated for allowing Sancho to go to Dortmund.Pep wanted him to stay but Sancho wanted A, more football and B, his head was turned by agents. It’s worked out well for him. So much so City believe they have a bargaining chip as 15% of his sell on fee goes to City.Strong rumour is City will waive that 15% if allowed to buy Haaland. Who is a City fan.
Finally one academy player who also left was Brahim Diaz.Again City were slated for letting him go to Real Madrid.He struggled to get a regular place at Madrid and is currently  on loan at AC Milan. It don’t always work out.
One other thing, a midfield of Grealish,Sancho, Foden and Henderson would have me dribbling. Problem is I honestly don’t think the golden waistcoat would get the best out of them.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 14, 2021)

Regarding inconsistency, I'm sure playing in an empty stadium has to mess with the heads of players. Can you play with the same intenstiy every game when the noise makes it feel like a practice match? It's easy for us to sit at home and expect the same level of play, with fake crowd noise coming through to trick us, but it must impact.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Regarding inconsistency, I'm sure playing in an empty stadium has to mess with the heads of players. Can you play with the same intenstiy every game when the noise makes it feel like a practice match? It's easy for us to sit at home and expect the same level of play, with fake crowd noise coming through to trick us, but it must impact.
		
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Odd you should mention empty stadiums. It has been mentioned that Sheff Utd playing in empty stadiums has affected them massively. Apparently Bramhall lane was a cauldron when Games were played there Last year and gave the home team A Real lift.


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## Orikoru (Jan 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Regarding inconsistency, I'm sure playing in an empty stadium has to mess with the heads of players. Can you play with the same intenstiy every game when the noise makes it feel like a practice match? It's easy for us to sit at home and expect the same level of play, with fake crowd noise coming through to trick us, but it must impact.
		
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I manage to put 100% effort in every Sunday morning and we don't have any fans.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Regarding inconsistency, I'm sure playing in an empty stadium has to mess with the heads of players. Can you play with the same intenstiy every game when the noise makes it feel like a practice match? It's easy for us to sit at home and expect the same level of play, with fake crowd noise coming through to trick us, but it must impact.
		
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The best teams adapt.
Ancelloti actually said it’s harder to play at home now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I manage to put 100% effort in every Sunday morning and we don't have any fans. 

Click to expand...

100% effort in, how much % out?


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I manage to put 100% effort in every Sunday morning and we don't have any fans. 

Click to expand...

But if 60,000 turned up for your next game do you think it would affect you?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The best teams adapt.
Ancelloti actually said it’s harder to play at home now.
		
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They do adapt but I think it is hard to maintain the top level in the current circumstances. It's the psychology of it, no intense crowd to squeeze that last bit of effort from your legs, keep the concentration tight.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They do adapt but I think it is hard to maintain the top level in the current circumstances. It's the psychology of it, no intense crowd to squeeze that last bit of effort from your legs, keep the concentration tight.
		
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Yes I agree.
But I have played golf with a lot of the former Liverpool players and most of them said they “don’t hear the crowd once the game has started.”
I did find that strange at the time.
But not having the fans must be very strange .
They grow up with people watching them all the time ,unlike most ams.


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## Orikoru (Jan 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			But if 60,000 turned up for your next game do you think it would affect you? 

Click to expand...

Yeah - I'd be confused about what they were doing there. My wife came to watch me once, I forgot all about her as soon as we kicked off though really.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
But I have played golf with a lot of the former Liverpool players and most of them said they “don’t hear the crowd once the game has started.”
I did find that strange at the time.
But not having the fans must be very strange .
They grow up with people watching them all the time ,unlike most ams.
		
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West ham still proving we play better without the home crowd 

Away crowd wasn't such an issue , but man the home crowd created such a negative environment, yes due to the anger at the board, now it's just a level playing field


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## fundy (Jan 14, 2021)

Arsenal players reportedly still not aware this isnt a crowd at their home games (yep im getting it in first again lol)


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			West ham still proving we play better without the home crowd

Away crowd wasn't such an issue , but man the home crowd created such a negative environment, yes due to the anger at the board, now it's just a level playing field
		
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The players must be aware it’s aimed at the board.
But the fans are a big advantage at home and players must mis that buzz when they walk out to a packed stadium.
But they all need to start behaving ( COVID rules) or Boris will stop it altogether.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 15, 2021)

So they got to stop cuddling,   to many positive tests now and players/ clubs flouting rules. 

Time to stop sport for a month.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			So they got to stop cuddling,   to many positive tests now and players/ clubs flouting rules.

Time to stop sport for a month.
		
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Arsenal and Newcastle have stopped cuddling by not scoring 😳


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## Beezerk (Jan 15, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Arsenal and Newcastle have stopped cuddling by not scoring 😳
		
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😅😅😅


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 15, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Arsenal and Newcastle have stopped cuddling by not scoring 😳
		
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Could still be playing now and they wouldn't have scored


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## Kellfire (Jan 15, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350156910297804803superb 🤣🤣🤣


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## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2021)

Don't understand dyche as a manager 

1-0 down defending like their 1-0 up


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2021)

Fulham looking very decent, Chelsea very average. I'm not sure why Fulham are trying so hard to avoid scoring though, very odd.


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## Captainron (Jan 16, 2021)

That red card is why football is a joke. Bunch of wussies


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 16, 2021)

Azpilicueta over reacted to get the player sent off. Wasn't a great challenge and a clear yellow buy went down with a broken leg given that scream and then fine


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 16, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Azpilicueta over reacted to get the player sent off. Wasn't a great challenge and a clear yellow buy went down with a broken leg given that scream and then fine
		
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That was a red card any day of the week.

Totally brainless challenge that had it been made by a Chelsea player on one of yours Scott Parker would have been screaming for a red .


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## Stuart_C (Jan 16, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			That was a red card any day of the week.

Totally brainless challenge that had it been made by a Chelsea player on one of yours Scott Parker would have been screaming for a red .
		
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disagree Mickie, definite yellow/harsh red is  how I see it. Azpilcueta made a meal of the contact.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 16, 2021)

New form of the two footed challenge.

"If I don't get you with the first foot I will with the second."

Don't like Azpilicueta's scream but that doesn’t alter the fact that it was an extremely dangerous challenge.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 16, 2021)

Pleased with the performance. Thought we were on a tough gig before the game and haven't got a good record anyway against Chelsea. Thought we were compact and defended well but they had a lot of possession around the box and always a matter of time. Got WBA and Brighton coming soon and those are where we need to get wins and certainly avoid defeat


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 17, 2021)

I see that Carragher has had a little pop at Man Utd saying that they are back on top because of the amount of penalties they have been awarded this season...

"it's an extraordinary amount of penalties that Manchester United have had this season".

In the PL this season Man Utd have been awarded 6 penalties. Liverpool have been awarded 5. Hardly a massive difference there.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I see that Carragher has had a little pop at Man Utd saying that they are back on top because of the amount of penalties they have been awarded this season...

"it's an extraordinary amount of penalties that Manchester United have had this season".

In the PL this season Man Utd have been awarded 6 penalties. Liverpool have been awarded 5. Hardly a massive difference there.
		
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And surprisingly Leicester have had 10.


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			And surprisingly Leicester have had 10.
		
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https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/topErhalteneElfmeter/wettbewerb/GB1

Burnley and West Ham have not had any! Leicester are so far ahead. I would suggest that's the Jamie Vardy effect I was talking about a couple of pages back. Although I don't have the stats for who actually won them all. 

Just seen this though, it's pretty extraordinary: https://www.myfootballfacts.com/pre...ier-league/premier-league-penalty-statistics/
We're less than halfway through this season but there's already been more penalties than there were in most seasons through the 90s and early 00s. And it's not even far away from 17/18 and 19/20 totals already! That's the VAR effect.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/topErhalteneElfmeter/wettbewerb/GB1

Burnley and West Ham have not had any! Leicester are so far ahead. I would suggest that's the Jamie Vardy effect I was talking about a couple of pages back. Although I don't have the stats for who actually won them all.

Just seen this though, it's pretty extraordinary: https://www.myfootballfacts.com/pre...ier-league/premier-league-penalty-statistics/
We're less than halfway through this season but there's already been more penalties than there were in most seasons through the 90s and early 00s. And it's not even far away from 17/18 and 19/20 totals already! That's the VAR effect.
		
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Diving practice paying off

Not a surprise some of the pens given have been scandalous this season.


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## DanFST (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/topErhalteneElfmeter/wettbewerb/GB1

Burnley and West Ham have not had any! Leicester are so far ahead.
		
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To be fair we've had Haller up top. Looked like he was running in toffee. 

It does raise an interesting point. We've not had penalties as we have no players who can perform unnatural movements to make sure they get tapped and then dive 10 yards. But we are very strong from set pieces and constantly get manhandled in the box. To the point where our big boys can't jump half the time. 

Why has VAR taken fast sprinting dives to the extreme, but completely ignored players grappling an attacker going for a header?


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 17, 2021)

DanFST said:



			To be fair we've had Haller up top. Looked like he was running in toffee.

It does raise an interesting point. We've not had penalties as we have no players who can perform unnatural movements to make sure they get tapped and then dive 10 yards. But we are very strong from set pieces and constantly get manhandled in the box. To the point where our big boys can't jump half the time.

Why has VAR taken fast sprinting dives to the extreme, but completely ignored players grappling an attacker going for a header?
		
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Never understood why you can go for the ball and miss tap his ankle it’s a pen.
But go for a header miss the ball and headbutt someone nothing.
As long as ignoring shirt pulling pushing is consistent it’s ok???


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## Tashyboy (Jan 17, 2021)

DanFST said:



			To be fair we've had Haller up top. Looked like he was running in toffee.

It does raise an interesting point. We've not had penalties as we have no players who can perform unnatural movements to make sure they get tapped and then dive 10 yards. But we are very strong from set pieces and constantly get manhandled in the box. To the point where our big boys can't jump half the time.

Why has VAR taken fast sprinting dives to the extreme, but completely ignored players grappling an attacker going for a header?
		
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but I did say this the other day when Billy sharpe had hold of the defenders shirt. Why was that not picked up.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 17, 2021)

DanFST said:



			To be fair we've had Haller up top. Looked like he was running in toffee. 

It does raise an interesting point. We've not had penalties as we have no players who can perform unnatural movements to make sure they get tapped and then dive 10 yards. But we are very strong from set pieces and constantly get manhandled in the box. To the point where our big boys can't jump half the time. 

Why has VAR taken fast sprinting dives to the extreme, but completely ignored players grappling an attacker going for a header?
		
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I find it's Bowen and fornals affect 

Bowen seems to want to shoot from outside or float one in, same with fornals he floats the cross like he did for the goal yest 

Need players to run into box but also go down. Bowen I think is too honest he will stay on his feet. Not a bad thing but doesn't get you pens


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## Imurg (Jan 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I see that Carragher has had a little pop at Man Utd saying that they are back on top because of the amount of penalties they have been awarded this season...

"it's an extraordinary amount of penalties that Manchester United have had this season".

In the PL this season Man Utd have been awarded 6 penalties. Liverpool have been awarded 5. Hardly a massive difference there.
		
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Could come back to bite him if Liverpool win today ..by a penalty. 
The Neville can sling it back at him and it'll actually be true....


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## Junior (Jan 17, 2021)

All set up today. Im nervous Liverpool will come out of the blocks quick and over run our defense.  Pains me to say it, but , the City game proved we're not at the level to beat Liverpool and win the league.  I cant see Utd getting anything out of this game, I'll still be watching from behind the sofa 

I still think Liverpool are the better team , and City will eventually win the league.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 17, 2021)

So after all the publicity about players keeping their  distance the whole of the Sheffield United team went into a group hug, bloody idiots. 

Noticed Kane looked across and looked like he was thinking you plonkers  😂

Good start from Spurs


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

Got our early goal. Stick your money on an 87th minute equaliser now lads. #GroundhogDay


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## Rlburnside (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Got our early goal. Stick your money on an 87th minute equaliser now lads. #GroundhogDay
		
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😂😂. Think we score a couple more in this game


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 17, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			but I did say this the other day when Billy sharpe had hold of the defenders shirt. Why was that not picked up.
		
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The refs are piss poor that’s why.


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			😂😂. Think we score a couple more in this game
		
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Let's make it 2-2 in the 87th minute shall we...


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

Oh wow, what a goal!


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## Piece (Jan 17, 2021)

That was a very, very tidy finish


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2021)

Was a cross wasnt it ? Just putting the ball back across the goal


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was a cross wasnt it ? Just putting the ball back across the goal
		
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No chance.   There was no one in the box anyway and he looked straight at the keeper after hitting it which tells you he was looking towards goal. Don't get me wrong though, it was certainly a hit and hope, but it came off perfectly with the keeper in no man's land.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Oh wow, what a goal!
		
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Yes brilliant goal , can only think of one foul Spurs have given away shows how poor Sheffield United have been , we could be above Liverpool at the end of the day who would have thought that. 😂

Think Man United will get well beat today though.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was a cross wasnt it ? Just putting the ball back across the goal
		
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Come on Phil give the man some credit that was never a cross.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2021)

What's the score with Bale? Have his legs gone, fall out with Mourinho, doesn't fit the system?

He has swapped a bench in Madrid for a bench in London.


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## Slime (Jan 17, 2021)

Junior said:



			All set up today. Im nervous Liverpool will come out of the blocks quick and over run our defense.  Pains me to say it, but , the City game proved we're not at the level to beat Liverpool and win the league.  I cant see Utd getting anything out of this game, I'll still be watching from behind the sofa 

*I still think Liverpool are the better team , and City will eventually win the league.*

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I think you've got that spot on.
I'd love a win today, but I'd be happy with a draw.
City are just getting into their stride now, I think they'll win the Prem by a few.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

Junior said:



			All set up today. Im nervous Liverpool will come out of the blocks quick and over run our defense.  Pains me to say it, but , the City game proved we're not at the level to beat Liverpool and win the league.  I cant see Utd getting anything out of this game, I'll still be watching from behind the sofa 

I still think Liverpool are the better team , and City will eventually win the league.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂

just seen who the ref is for today🤦🤦

I’ll watch it on Twitter Today😝😝


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## Junior (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂😂

just seen who the ref is for today🤦🤦

I’ll watch it on Twitter Today😝😝
		
Click to expand...

I'll defo be behind the sofa.   Esp now that Bailly is on the bench.  He's been our best cb recently.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 17, 2021)

Think I’ll hope for a Man Utd win then Spurs will be third 😂

Also Liverpool are much more likely to last the course and Man Utd are not good enough to stay on top and I think they will lose a few.


----------



## fundy (Jan 17, 2021)

Ozil reportedly having a medical at Fenerbache


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 17, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What's the score with Bale? Have his legs gone, fall out with Mourinho, doesn't fit the system?

He has swapped a bench in Madrid for a bench in London.
		
Click to expand...

Read a piece the other day where the “ senior” pros at the club are surprised at the treatment of Bale. Not sure if Alli is one of the seniors as his time under Maureen has not gone to well either.


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## AmandaJR (Jan 17, 2021)

Weird watching a match and wanting both teams to lose


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What's the score with Bale? Have his legs gone, fall out with Mourinho, doesn't fit the system?

He has swapped a bench in Madrid for a bench in London.
		
Click to expand...

All three? Ha. I don't imagine Jose was involved in the deal and probably didn't necessarily want him. Jose likes players who work hard at both ends of the pitch, I don't think Bale's legs will allow him to do that these days. I think he's an impact sub that you throw on when losing a game, maybe produce some of the old magic - but we've rarely ever been behind in games this season.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			Ozil reportedly having a medical at Fenerbache
		
Click to expand...

He went on record the other day and said that is the only club in Turkey he would play for. Said there was a a large Turkish/ German population in Germany and the vast majority follow Fenerbache. Also said he would like to play in Anpmerica.


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2021)

if ever a game needed a goal.....


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## adam6177 (Jan 17, 2021)

Not sure why the ref decided to blow the whistle early when Liverpool about to be through on goal 1 on 1.... It should be 1 minute (at least) yet he blows early. Crazy.


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## paddyc (Jan 17, 2021)

The linesman not putting his flag as soon as you can see the player is offside and going towards the ball is driving me potty. Get the flag up straightaway ffs 😡


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## hairball_89 (Jan 17, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Not sure why the ref decided to blow the whistle early when Liverpool about to be through on goal 1 on 1.... It should be 1 minute (at least) yet he blows early. Crazy.
		
Click to expand...

It was annoying, but nothing happened in the minute to stop the game and add on time! I'm all for having a go at the officials when it goes against the redmen, but that's pushing it a bit!


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## Piece (Jan 17, 2021)

Not much going on there really. 🙂🥱😴


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## paddyc (Jan 17, 2021)

Typical Liverpool Man u game.... boring!!


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## Slime (Jan 17, 2021)

'Pool looking good, giving United a bit of a lesson, but lacking end product ....................... surprisingly.
United growing into it in the last few minutes.
The game definitely needs a (United) goal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2021)

Tight game , Utd getting every little foul at the moment , the whole offside is very strange , 3 times it’s clear offside yet don’t flag up for one until 2 shots are taken !! And then why not play advantage when Allison puts a great ball through then blows for an offside to Rashford - the flow of the game is awful because of the officials


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 17, 2021)

paddyc said:



			The linesman not putting his flag as soon as you can see the player is offside and going towards the ball is driving me potty. Get the flag up straightaway ffs 😡
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure we're going to see a player injured unnecessarily as play continues and a challenge is made. Can't recall the players but a recent City match had a crunching 50/50 challenge as play was allowed to continue despite a clear off-side. Crackers rule.


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2021)

paddyc said:



			The linesman not putting his flag as soon as you can see the player is offside and going towards the ball is driving me potty. Get the flag up straightaway ffs 😡
		
Click to expand...

almost as annoying as the commentator keep saying the flags stayed down ........... now its gone up


----------



## hairball_89 (Jan 17, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm sure we're going to see a player injured unnecessarily as play continues and a challenge is made. Can't recall the players but a recent City match had a crunching 50/50 challenge as play was allowed to continue despite a clear off-side. Crackers rule.
		
Click to expand...

Going to? Don't know if you remember a chap called Virgil?! But yes, I've been saying similar since the rule came in. it's mad.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm sure we're going to see a player injured unnecessarily as play continues and a challenge is made. Can't recall the players but a recent City match had a crunching 50/50 challenge as play was allowed to continue despite a clear off-side. Crackers rule.
		
Click to expand...

Already happened with VVD - if the flag had gone up then the play would have stopped and the tackle wouldn’t have happened


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

paddyc said:



			The linesman not putting his flag as soon as you can see the player is offside and going towards the ball is driving me potty. Get the flag up straightaway ffs 😡
		
Click to expand...

It is absolutely mental. You might as well not have linesmen at all - it's an over-reliance on the poxy VAR. Why not tell them if they're not sure to keep the flag down, but if they can see it's offside - let them make the bloody decision, that's what they're there for! Players were always told to play to the whistle anyway so it should be no different. Just because a flag is up, you don't stop until the whistle goes.


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

I can't understand how Martial starts ahead of Cavani. Cavani seems like twice the forward Martial is. Did anyone even notice Martial was playing?


----------



## Piece (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It is absolutely mental. You might as well not have linesmen at all - it's an over-reliance on the poxy VAR. Why not tell them if they're not sure to keep the flag down, but if they can see it's offside - let them make the bloody decision, that's what they're there for! Players were always told to play to the whistle anyway so it should be no different. Just because a flag is up, you don't stop until the whistle goes.
		
Click to expand...

Frustrating though it can be, at least you get the right decision. Imagine the carnage on here if the lino flags for an obvious one and on replay, it’s actually onside. A good recent example of one is Borussia M‘s second goal v Bayern the other week, where all thought it was a blatant offside and the play continued half heartedly and the striker finished well. VAR showed it was onside.


----------



## Dando (Jan 17, 2021)

Why on earth can’t keepers catch a ball that’s hit straight at them


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

Piece said:



			Frustrating though it can be, at least you get the right decision. Imagine the carnage on here if the lino flags for an obvious one and on replay, it’s actually onside. A good recent example of one is Borussia M‘s second goal v Bayern the other week, where all thought it was a blatant offside and the play continued half heartedly and the striker finished well. VAR showed it was onside.
		
Click to expand...

Personally I think crazy bad decisions like that were few and far between, and I'd still rather that happens very occasionally than this nonsense of the flag not going up every single game.


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## Slime (Jan 17, 2021)

A very twitchy ten minutes to go.


----------



## Piece (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Personally I think crazy bad decisions like that were few and far between, and I'd still rather that happens very occasionally than this nonsense of the flag not going up every single game.
		
Click to expand...

Crazy bad decisions are the reasons for VAR being introduced 🤓


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Personally I think crazy bad decisions like that were few and far between, and I'd still rather that happens very occasionally than this nonsense of the flag not going up every single game.
		
Click to expand...

It’s certainly frustrating but they are only meant to delay the flag when an _immediate goalscoring opportunity is likely to occur._
It seems at the moment they are doing it for most offsides.


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## Slime (Jan 17, 2021)

Okay, fair result.
At least it wasn't decided by anything controversial!
Still top of the league .................... and now I'm a Crystal Palace supporter!


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 17, 2021)

Garbage game superseded by a referee who’s whistle only worked one way


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## hairball_89 (Jan 17, 2021)

Scintillating or boring. What I'd give for the 'machine-like' get the lead and kill the game of last season. 

Injuries at the back are catching up with us knocking everything out of kilter further up but my god we need to find someone who can just swing a boot at the ball towards the net! Shaq and Thiago having a pop and not trying to walk it in was nice to see.

Keeper kept us in it. A real chance to make a statement today but just not at the races.


----------



## Slime (Jan 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Garbage game superseded by a referee who’s whistle only worked one way
		
Click to expand...

Wow.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2021)

Slime said:



			Wow.
		
Click to expand...

He isn’t wrong though - Tierny blew every time a UTD player fell over , blowing early when Mane through yet both Mane and Salah constantly grabbed round the neck by Maguire yet nothing 

This was apparently a foul on Maguire 🤦‍♂️



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350860448309112836
It was an awful game , Liverpool nowhere near on form and Utd had the two clear chances - UTD never had a better chance to beat Liverpool . We won’t be any worse than that - hopefully we will have some players back from injury soon like Jota , Matip


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2021)

LPool fan uses Lpool fan site to prove bias. 
You couldn’t make it up.


----------



## Junior (Jan 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Garbage game superseded by a referee who’s whistle only worked one way
		
Click to expand...

Thats because you kept fouling us everytime we were breaking   , it was like watching a Pep team


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## hairball_89 (Jan 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Garbage game superseded by a referee who’s whistle only worked one way
		
Click to expand...

Do you really, honestly come away from that game more annoyed at the ref than the fact we created *nothing*? The Thiago hit from 20 yards was the only thing De Gea had to do all game. Yes, I thought Tierney got a few decisions wrong, but I can't see how the *first* reason given for not winning is the ref when we weren't good enough at all?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2021)

As a neutral, I dislike both teams 😁, I thought utd gave a Jose performance and will be happy. They were organised and any team who sits back and are drilled will be tough to break down. 

Liverpool were flat, the front 3 looked leggy. For all the possession De Gea had little to scare him.

A hugely forgettable game.


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 17, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Do you really, honestly come away from that game more annoyed at the ref than the fact we created *nothing*? The Thiago hit from 20 yards was the only thing De Gea had to do all game. Yes, I thought Tierney got a few decisions wrong, but I can't see how the *first* reason given for not winning is the ref when we weren't good enough at all?
		
Click to expand...

Where did I say he was the reason we didn’t win? I never did. 

Hope this ends the conversation...


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 17, 2021)

Must be the names. 

Fabinho did a very good impersonation of Fernandinho constantly committing "professional" fouls to prevent the opposition breaking out.

Fair enough, every team does it to some extent, but the Liverpool fans on here have moaned endlessly about others.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Do you really, honestly come away from that game more annoyed at the ref than the fact we created *nothing*? The Thiago hit from 20 yards was the only thing De Gea had to do all game. Yes, I thought Tierney got a few decisions wrong, but I can't see how the *first* reason given for not winning is the ref when we weren't good enough at all?
		
Click to expand...

We had chances , a few fell to Bobby in the first half which were scuffed , the chances were there just not making enough of them - the front three just weren’t at the races and struggling for some fluency

The ref wasnt the reason we didn’t win its just very frustrating to see the way he reffed the game - more annoyance than anything.

It’s not the worst result with the level of players out at the moment -


----------



## Rlburnside (Jan 17, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Do you really, honestly come away from that game more annoyed at the ref than the fact we created *nothing*? The Thiago hit from 20 yards was the only thing De Gea had to do all game. Yes, I thought Tierney got a few decisions wrong, but I can't see how the *first* reason given for not winning is the ref when we weren't good enough at all?
		
Click to expand...

Good to see a realistic view of the game instead of some of the biased views


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## Rlburnside (Jan 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We had chances , a few fell to Bobby in the first half which were scuffed , the chances were there just not making enough of them - the front three just weren’t at the races and struggling for some fluency

The ref was the reason we didn’t win its just very frustrating to see the way he reffed the game - more annoyance than anything.

It’s not the worst result with the level of players out at the moment -
		
Click to expand...

Your crazy if you think the ref cost you the game😂😂 your front three didn't perform well enough that's why you didn't win.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Your crazy if you think the ref cost you the game😂😂 your front three didn't perform well enough that's why you didn't win. 

Click to expand...

Edited my post


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Must be the names.

Fabinho did a very good impersonation of Fernandinho constantly committing "professional" fouls to prevent the opposition breaking out.

Fair enough, every team does it to some extent, but the Liverpool fans on here have moaned endlessly about others.
		
Click to expand...

He made 2 fouls,1 he was booked for. What else do you want?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

Slime said:



			Okay, fair result.
At least it wasn't decided by anything controversial!
Still top of the league .................... and now I'm a Crystal Palace supporter!
		
Click to expand...

At least they're closer to were you're from 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Support your local team, it'll feel better😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			LPool fan uses Lpool fan site to prove bias. 
You couldn’t make it up.

Click to expand...

#stalkeralert 😄😄

I thought he was on ignore??


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

In fairness to LeightinbuzzardPhil, that Maguire "foul" was ludicrous.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			#stalkeralert 😄😄

I thought he was on ignore??
		
Click to expand...

Don’t have anyone on ignore, did you enjoy the match on twitter?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Don’t have anyone on ignore, did you enjoy the match on twitter? 

Click to expand...

Well.......


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2021)

Funny how 2 different 0-0s in the space of a few days get such different reactions


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Must be the names.

Fabinho did a very good impersonation of Fernandinho constantly committing "professional" fouls to prevent the opposition breaking out.

Fair enough, every team does it to some extent, but the Liverpool fans on here have moaned endlessly about others.
		
Click to expand...

? 

He made one deliberate professional foul and was given a yellow card for it ( Cavani ) - and think there was another block which was also given as a foul. 


Stuart_C said:



			#stalkeralert 😄😄

I thought he was on ignore??
		
Click to expand...

Don’t be silly - he needs to be involved 😁


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			?

He made one deliberate professional foul and was given a yellow card for it ( Cavani ) - and think there was another block which was also given as a foul.


Don’t be silly - he needs to be involved 😁
		
Click to expand...

At least  two in the fist half alone.

Can't comment too much on the second half as I turned after an hour, the excitement was too much for this neutral 😴


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

Guardiola is a git, I swear he actually gets off on ruining people's fantasy teams. Imagine dropping Foden and Cancelo, they've been his two best players!


----------



## fundy (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Guardiola is a git, I swear he actually gets off on ruining people's fantasy teams. Imagine dropping Foden and Cancelo, they've been his two best players!
		
Click to expand...


them 2 and Mahrez in my draft team lol


----------



## Slime (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			At least they're closer to were you're from 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

*Support your local team, it'll feel better*😉
		
Click to expand...

They play in the Combined Counties League Division One, it won't!


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## pauljames87 (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Guardiola is a git, I swear he actually gets off on ruining people's fantasy teams. Imagine dropping Foden and Cancelo, they've been his two best players!
		
Click to expand...

I can't use city players in my team.. I have stones ATM just because he is about their only decent CB 

However it's just rotation all the time 

Pointless


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 17, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As a neutral, I dislike both teams 😁, I thought utd gave a Jose performance and will be happy. They were organised and any team who sits back and are drilled will be tough to break down.

Liverpool were flat, the front 3 looked leggy. For all the possession De Gea had little to scare him.

A hugely forgettable game.
		
Click to expand...

Good job Pogbas finishing is as bad as Firminos.
Thought we played well but finishing was poor.
But we played well at the back with no CBS. Hendo and Fabino were very good.
The league is wide open to anyone who puts a decent run in.
Surprised Utd didn’t start Cavani with us having no CB.


----------



## SteveW86 (Jan 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I can't use city players in my team.. I have stones ATM just because he is about their only decent CB

However it's just rotation all the time

Pointless
		
Click to expand...

Hasn’t this been the case for the last few years with City and fantasy league players, you could never be certain there wouldn’t be any rotation


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He isn’t wrong though - Tierny blew every time a UTD player fell over , blowing early when Mane through yet both Mane and Salah constantly grabbed round the neck by Maguire yet nothing

This was apparently a foul on Maguire 🤦‍♂️



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350860448309112836
It was an awful game , Liverpool nowhere near on form and Utd had the two clear chances - UTD never had a better chance to beat Liverpool . We won’t be any worse than that - hopefully we will have some players back from injury soon like Jota , Matip
		
Click to expand...

Classic Internet fan 😂😂
Stick to playing FIFA on Xbox 😂😂😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 17, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Classic Internet fan 😂😂
Stick to playing FIFA on Xbox 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Think he does have a point with that foul though.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 17, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Hasn’t this been the case for the last few years with City and fantasy league players, you could never be certain there wouldn’t be any rotation
		
Click to expand...

Yep it's why I can never put them in, it's too difficult to predict

Least with Liverpool it's fairly certain  who wil play. For example Robertson everygame

City would rotate the keeper if they gave Pep half s chance


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

Slime said:



			They play in the Combined Counties League Division One, it won't! 

Click to expand...

It will. Instead of clinging onto a team 200 miles away that you really don't have any affinity with apart from a great great granddad who had some sort of affinity to. Let it go. 

#supportyourlocalteam 😉


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 17, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think he does have a point with that foul though.
		
Click to expand...

He’ll have heard a proper Liverpool fan say it on a forum 😊


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			At least  two in the fist half alone.

Can't comment too much on the second half as I turned after an hour, the excitement was too much for this neutral 😴
		
Click to expand...

Come on Mickie you're better than  this.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 17, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			He’ll have heard a proper Liverpool fan say it on a forum 😊
		
Click to expand...

Shows even PL CBs practice going down easy (diving) but not in your own penalty area surley.


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I can't use city players in my team.. I have stones ATM just because he is about their only decent CB

However it's just rotation all the time

Pointless
		
Click to expand...

That's worked out well for you.


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think he does have a point with that foul though.
		
Click to expand...

The video posted actually begins after the foul from Salah took place though making it somewhat pointless.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That's worked out well for you. 

Click to expand...

Transferred him in last min aswell 

Hopefully gives me chance in the work head to head but he played his bench boost .. only 2 players play tho cresswell and rice.. got to hope cresswel does nothing against wba , rice isn't normally a points player


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The video posted actually begins after the foul from Salah took place though making it somewhat pointless.
		
Click to expand...

It wasnt a foul from salah at all. Where was the foul?


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It wasnt a foul from salah at all. Where was the foul?
		
Click to expand...

I mean the incident was much longer than that video shows, I only saw it when it happened but it was a longer tussle than that, I figured the ref gave it for something just before what the video shows.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The video posted actually begins after the foul from Salah took place though making it somewhat pointless.
		
Click to expand...

What foul ?
50/50 for the ball one falls down ref gives it.


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Transferred him in last min aswell

Hopefully gives me chance in the work head to head but he played his bench boost .. only 2 players play tho cresswell and rice.. got to hope cresswel does nothing against wba , rice isn't normally a points player
		
Click to expand...

Both my players have been subbed on, so I just need Cancelo to assist Foden for the fourth and all is well.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Both my players have been subbed on, so I just need Cancelo to assist Foden for the fourth and all is well. 

Click to expand...

I'm hoping stones bangs in his deserved hatrick then grabs a couple assists


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'm hoping stones bangs in his deserved hatrick then grabs a couple assists
		
Click to expand...

Don't ask for much do you? Most people would take 2 goals and a clean sheet from their centre back.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Come on Mickie you're better than  this.
		
Click to expand...

Like diving, all clubs expect their players to take one for the team. In my experience there are no exceptions.

And as for turning off after an hour that is completely understandable if the viewer is not invested in the result.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I mean the incident was much longer than that video shows, I only saw it when it happened but it was a longer tussle than that, I figured the ref gave it for something just before what the video shows.
		
Click to expand...

I watched it  and seen that "foul" , taking my bias away it was an embarrassment. Just like the like Shaw falling down after the tackle with TAA on the line. If that was Salah or Mane there'd be hilarious memes flying around. 

Then there's the yellow card for Shaqiri for doing less than what Kane does and gets a pen for. 

*That said we didn't do enough to win the game. *


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 17, 2021)

Very lacklustre Liverpool v United game for the neutral. United looked happy to get the draw and Liverpool looked flat, as they have done for a few games now including against my mob. I know they have had injuries but they don't seem as sharp in possession and as able to unlock defences as the last two seasons. Still think Liverpool and City will battle it out once more


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I watched it  and seen that "foul" , taking my bias away it was an embarrassment. Just like the like Shaw falling down after the tackle with TAA on the line. If that was Salah or Mane there'd be hilarious memes flying around.

Then there's the yellow card for Shaqiri for doing less than what Kane does and gets a pen for.

*That said we didn't do enough to win the game. *

Click to expand...

Shakira didnt get booked for doing what Kane does, he gave a FK for that, he got booked for pulling someone back just outside his box didnt he


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

N


MetalMickie said:



			Like diving, all clubs expect their players to take one for the team. In my experience there are no exceptions.

And as for turning off after an hour that is completely understandable if the viewer is not invested in the result.
		
Click to expand...

No not at all. He's made 2 foul in the game. 1 he was booked for. The other was a standard foul. Do you really wanna see yellow cards for all fouls?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			Shakira didnt get booked for doing what Kane does, he gave a FK for that, he got booked for pulling someone back just outside his box didnt he
		
Click to expand...

Sorry your right, it still wasn't a foul either way.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I watched it  and seen that "foul" , taking my bias away it was an embarrassment. Just like the like Shaw falling down after the tackle with TAA on the line. *If that was Salah or Mane there'd be hilarious memes flying around.*

Then there's the yellow card for Shaqiri for doing less than what Kane does and gets a pen for.

*That said we didn't do enough to win the game. *

Click to expand...

🎻 🎻 every time🤦‍♂️
poor old us


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			🎻 🎻 every time🤦‍♂️
poor old us
		
Click to expand...

Here we go 🙄🙄 hes found  his  password. Welcome along.

Editted. Let's be civil.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Don't ask for much do you? Most people would take 2 goals and a clean sheet from their centre back. 

Click to expand...

I'm fed up with the head to head league

I'm 3rd highest points total but due to head to head rules I keep playing the one player every week who will beat me and I'm like 7th out of 10


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## Orikoru (Jan 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'm fed up with the head to head league

I'm 3rd highest points total but due to head to head rules I keep playing the one player every week who will beat me and I'm like 7th out of 10
		
Click to expand...

Yeah that's why I don't bother with them. Our footy team has one with a bit of money in, but it's just the standard league. I added in a manager of the month prize though to keep people interested if they're out of the main running.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Here we go 🙄🙄 the retards found  his  password. Welcome along mongo
		
Click to expand...

Stay classy La 👍🏻👍🏻


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## pauljames87 (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah that's why I don't bother with them. Our footy team has one with a bit of money in, but it's just the standard league. I added in a manager of the month prize though to keep people interested if they're out of the main running.
		
Click to expand...





We did it to keep people playing all season 

I mean look at those points totals above me lol ffs


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			N


No not at all. He's made 2 foul in the game. 1 he was booked for. The other was a standard foul. Do you really wanna see yellow cards for all fouls?
		
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Not at all. 

My comment had more to do with the hypocrisy of some who were quick to be critical of Fernandinho but happy to accept similar tactics from their own players 

Like I said everyone team does it  (like diving), let's just be honest about it.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Not at all.

My comment had more to do with the hypocrisy of some who were quick to be critical of Fernandinho but happy to accept similar tactics from their own players

Like I said everyone team does it  (like diving), let's just be honest about it.
		
Click to expand...

Personally I've always  admired it, it's a part of the game that needs to exist...I've been critical of refs not being consistent  with dealing with  it. Some weeks they hand yellows out then they'll let fernandinho get away with 5 before a telling off. All of it is out there no bias  etc.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Personally I've always  admired it, it's a part of the game that needs to exist...I've been critical of refs not being consistent  with dealing with  it. Some weeks they hand yellows out then they'll let fernandinho get away with 5 before a telling off. All of it is out there no bias  etc.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, it's something that we would expect our own to  do and be annoyed if they didn't.

But equally it's frustrating when our own team is on the wrong  end of it.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I agree, it's something that we would expect our own to  do and be annoyed if they didn't.

But equally it's frustrating when our own team is on the wrong  end of it.
		
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Most definitely. I've been very vocal about it when you see fernandinho get away with it 5x  but a lesser player gets booked first 1st one.

It's an art, i love it..


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## hairball_89 (Jan 17, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I agree, it's something that we would expect our own to  do and be annoyed if they didn't.

But equally it's frustrating when our own team is on the wrong  end of it.
		
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For me, Lucas used to be the best in the league at it. There's an absolute art in timing a "great foul" perfectly where it's high up the pitch enough to not be deemed cynical by the ref and get booked. Players like Fabinho and Fernandinho absolutely have the art nailed down. 

As @Stuart_C says, the issue is (once again!) the ridiculous inconsistency in how it is refereed. Some refs will let each side have 1 or 2 and then next player gets a yellow, some will wait all game.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			For me, Lucas used to be the best in the league at it. There's an absolute art in timing a "great foul" perfectly where it's high up the pitch enough to not be deemed cynical by the ref and get booked. Players like Fabinho and Fernandinho absolutely have the art nailed down.

As @Stuart_C says, the issue is (once again!) the ridiculous inconsistency in how it is refereed. Some refs will let each side have 1 or 2 and then next player gets a yellow, *some will wait all game.*

Click to expand...

This boils my piss, often book them in the 88th minute after they've done 6 or more!!


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## hairball_89 (Jan 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			This boils my piss, often book them in the 88th minute after they've done 6 or more!!
		
Click to expand...

The worse one than that... Wait until the 88th minute to book the keeper who's been time wasting since the 32nd minute!


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Don't ask for much do you? Most people would take 2 goals and a clean sheet from their centre back. 

Click to expand...

I wonder if he would want to take a pen if they got one.
Can’t be any worse than Sterling!
Don’t get many chances of hat trick playing CB.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I wonder if he would want to take a pen if they got one.
Can’t be any worse than Sterling!
Don’t get many chances of hat trick playing CB.
		
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Try following Sterling as a City fan.😣 When he stepped up to take that free kick I went and put the kettle on. He cannot hit a barn door from 12 yds yet then rips the net out With a free kick.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Try following Sterling as a City fan.😣 When he stepped up to take that free kick I went and put the kettle on. He cannot hit a barn door from 12 yds yet then rips the net out With a free kick.
		
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There’s a lot more pressure on a penalty.
But should never miss the target.
Just remember he used to wear red!!!


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## Tashyboy (Jan 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			There’s a lot more pressure on a penalty.
But should never miss the target.
Just remember he used to wear red!!!
		
Click to expand...

Oh I do, the only consolation is Milner used to wear blue. 😁

Joking aside I know both players had a serious amount of grief from there fans when they left but it’s not turned out to bad for either of them. I would like to see Milner go into management at some point.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Oh I do, the only consolation is Milner used to wear blue. 😁

Joking aside I know both players had a serious amount of grief from there fans when they left but it’s not turned out to bad for either of them. I would like to see Milner go into management at some point.
		
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Yes Milner has been brilliant for us, still doing a job but getting to the end imo.
It’s funny how some players can miss a sitter then score a wonder goal.
Milner never had that problem fortunately.
City looking very good , KDB best in PL imo joy to watch.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes Milner has been brilliant for us, still doing a job but getting to the end imo.
It’s funny how some players can miss a sitter then score a wonder goal.
Milner never had that problem fortunately.
City looking very good , KDB best in PL imo joy to watch.
		
Click to expand...

I was talking to me lad the other day, KDB is like a top class golfer with his right foot. He can hit a draw or a fade With it. 😁

I was looking at the fixtures yesterday. Leicester I think will be near the top til middle of April. There fixtures are not bad but towards the end of April and into May they have a real tough finish That will make or break there season. As Ave said before. Liverpool have to grind out results til players return to be in with a shout. I thought a point yesterday was a better point for you than Utd.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I was talking to me lad the other day, KDB is like a top class golfer with his right foot. He can hit a draw or a fade With it. 😁

I was looking at the fixtures yesterday. Leicester I think will be near the top til middle of April. There fixtures are not bad but towards the end of April and into May they have a real tough finish That will make or break there season. As Ave said before. Liverpool have to grind out results til players return to be in with a shout. I thought a point yesterday was a better point for you than Utd.
		
Click to expand...

A draw against the top sides is always ok.
But we have dropped a few against the lower teams who have just got their tactics right.
Very strange season and not able to call a winner atm.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 18, 2021)

Am not a betting man, but if these odds are recent. A cheeky quid on Leicester ain’t a bad bet

*Premier League Winner 20/21*

Manchester City. 4/7.
Liverpool. 7/2.
Manchester Utd. 13/2.
Tottenham. 20/1.
Chelsea. 28/1.
Leicester. 33/1.
Everton. 80/1.
Aston Villa. 150/1.
without stating the obvious, that’s gonna change week to week massively me dinks


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## USER1999 (Jan 18, 2021)

Why start with Luiz? He just slows everything down.


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2021)

Was expecting a dull game but Bruces team selection may have changed that. Worry about our back line against a barrage of high balls but there should be plenty of space for us to play going forward


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## USER1999 (Jan 18, 2021)

Nice goal for Auba, decent ball from Partey too.


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2021)

2 cracking goals  i know its only Newcastle but signs of improvement again. Partey a big difference for sure


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			2 cracking goals  i know its only Newcastle but signs of improvement again. Partey a big difference for sure
		
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Win is a win (hopefully) and definite signs of cohesion. The problem is doing it regularly


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## USER1999 (Jan 18, 2021)

That should have been another two.


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## paddyc (Jan 18, 2021)

Playing with a lot of confidence since the first goal. Tierney back is crucial.Partey looks quality . ESR and Saka pulling the strings anda goal for Auba. this looks like a first choice 11 to me.


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## USER1999 (Jan 18, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Playing with a lot of confidence since the first goal. Tierney back is crucial.Partey looks quality . ESR and Saka pulling the strings anda goal for Auba. this looks like a first choice 11 to me.
		
Click to expand...

Ditch Luiz, and I probably agree.


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Ditch Luiz, and I probably agree.
		
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Id make one more change in CM too


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## paddyc (Jan 18, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Ditch Luiz, and I probably agree.
		
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Yeah probably  Gabriel  back instead of the clown


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## paddyc (Jan 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			Id make one more change in CM too
		
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So Xhaka out ? Steve. have to say I think hes done well last few weeks


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2021)

paddyc said:



			So Xhaka out ? Steve. have to say I think hes done well last few weeks
		
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hes been better from a ridiculously low base, still isnt the long term answer. even in those games hes given it away far too often and slows it down far too much


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## USER1999 (Jan 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			hes been better from a ridiculously low base, still isnt the long term answer. even in those games hes given it away far too often and slows it down far too much
		
Click to expand...

Trouble is, I don't rate any of the other choices.


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Trouble is, I don't rate any of the other choices.
		
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Happily have Ceballos ahead of him alongside Partey but agree long term need to buy. Happily bring Torreira back for rest of season and have him alongside Partey too


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## USER1999 (Jan 18, 2021)

Ceballos does nothing for me. He is Xhaka mkII. Equally slow, equally crap. Would prefer Torreira for sure.
Best option would be some one new though.


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## paddyc (Jan 18, 2021)

Love Torreira cant believe  he let him go out on loan.


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Love Torreira cant believe  he let him go out on loan.
		
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hes barely getting a game at Athletico, recall him and offer them their pick of Xhaka, Elneny or Ceballos imho


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## Orikoru (Jan 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			hes barely getting a game at Athletico, recall him and* offer them their pick of Xhaka, Elneny or Ceballos imho*

Click to expand...

I think they'd politely decline.


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## need_my_wedge (Jan 19, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Playing with a lot of confidence since the first goal. Tierney back is crucial.Partey looks quality . ESR and Saka pulling the strings anda goal for Auba. this looks like a first choice 11 to me.
		
Click to expand...

only switched on at half time, but was pleased with what I saw. Partey was a class above in midfield, absolute quality pass to Auba for the first goal. Tierney, Saka and ESR are a revelation, I also think Cedric is better on the right than Bellerin, he doesn't get much game time, but when he does, I think he gets more, and better quality balls into the attackers. The defence is improving too, happy to see Holding with Mari or Gabriel any time, do worry a bit when Luiz is playing, although he has been better of late. In midfield, I like Cebellos more than Xhaka, I think he works a lot harder, but I think Torreira is better than both of them, still don't understand why he's out.


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## USER1999 (Jan 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think they'd politely decline.
		
Click to expand...

How about all three? They can have 3 for one, and I will chuck in a completely free Willian as well.


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## fundy (Jan 19, 2021)

Sacked in the morning, Franks getting sacked in the morning 

Romans trigger finger must be getting mighty itchy


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## Orikoru (Jan 19, 2021)

Chelsea do look incredibly average. It does seem like Frank is all out of ideas now. Too many individuals coasting I think, not performing.


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## SteveW86 (Jan 19, 2021)

Is Chelsea’s form against the top 6 just down to lampards management? 

What should have been a season of hope for a developing team is turning into a bit of a nightmare.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Is Chelsea’s form against the top 6 just down to lampards management?

What should have been a season of hope for a developing team is turning into a bit of a nightmare.
		
Click to expand...

Doesn’t help when you start throwing cash around like a drunken sailor buying names.

History has proved chopping and changing sides from game to game doesn’t help.


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## SteveW86 (Jan 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Doesn’t help when you start throwing cash around like a drunken sailor buying names.

History has proved chopping and changing sides from game to game doesn’t help.
		
Click to expand...

A case of too many players to choose from for an inexperienced manager?

Seems to me like he needs to decide his best team, play it and move those on he doesn’t fancy


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## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			A case of too many players to choose from for an inexperienced manager?

Seems to me like he needs to decide his best team, play it and move those on he doesn’t fancy
		
Click to expand...

in fairness I think it’s a combination of injuries,playing players out of position,  the signings not settling and him not having a settled way of playing.


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## GG26 (Jan 19, 2021)

Great time to be following Leicester.  The difference to when we won the league is that this team looks like they can compete for a few years with a number of good young players.  

So far we have managed to replace players that have moved on, eg Ndidi for Kante, Tielemans for Drinkwater, Soyunchu or Fofana for Maguire, Castagne for Chilwell, and even Maddison for Mahrez, and have much greater strength in depth.  We will struggle to replace Vardy when the time comes, but you never know we may unearth a gem from somewhere.

Hoping we can keep it going and secure a top four spot at the end of the season.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 19, 2021)

GG26 said:



			Great time to be following Leicester.  The difference to when we won the league is that this team looks like they can compete for a few years with a number of good young players. 

So far we have managed to replace players that have moved on, eg Ndidi for Kante, Tielemans for Drinkwater, Soyunchu or Fofana for Maguire, Castagne for Chilwell, and even Maddison for Mahrez, and have much greater strength in depth.  We will struggle to replace Vardy when the time comes, but you never know we may unearth a gem from somewhere.

Hoping we can keep it going and secure a top four spot at the end of the season.
		
Click to expand...

 I mentioned yesterday a cheeky quid on Leicester wouldn’t be a bad idea, I can see Leicester in the top four til mid April. The run in is very tough. ESP in May. Be nice to see Leicester’s ” one off” be a two off should City not do it. That aside Ave seen Vity win a few titles. Leicester’s firmly remains my fave as a neutral.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 20, 2021)

Can't believe we are still yet to be awarded a pen 

Soucek taken out In box 

They claim VAR is now for clear and obvious errors dispute ignoring that most of the season 

Then said afters if a pen was given it wouldn't be overturned 

Just not enough to overturn the ref 

What a load of tosh


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Can't believe we are still yet to be awarded a pen

Soucek taken out In box

They claim VAR is now for clear and obvious errors dispute ignoring that most of the season

Then said afters if a pen was given it wouldn't be overturned

Just not enough to overturn the ref

What a load of tosh
		
Click to expand...

Come on, be happy. Is it possible for a hammer to be happy? Not only no relegation battle this year but you are comfortably up the other end. You have a stable manager, all is good surely?


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## pauljames87 (Jan 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Come on, be happy. Is it possible for a hammer to be happy? Not only no relegation battle this year but you are comfortably up the other end. You have a stable manager, all is good surely?
		
Click to expand...

Very happy just still poor officials not fit to officiate the game is frustrating

Plus 19 games into the season and not one pen given is getting stupid now


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## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Very happy just still poor officials not fit to officiate the game is frustrating

Plus 19 games into the season and not one pen given is getting stupid now
		
Click to expand...

Change your away shirts to red 😉

Joking aside we have penalties and cannot put them away. There still looking for Sterling’s ball from last week 😣


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Can't believe we are still yet to be awarded a pen

Soucek taken out In box

They claim VAR is now for clear and obvious errors dispute ignoring that most of the season

Then said afters if a pen was given it wouldn't be overturned

Just not enough to overturn the ref

What a load of tosh
		
Click to expand...

It was only 2 seasons back 4 teams didn’t get any in the season (incl West Ham)

Good link here to the last 10 seasons and who got pens.

https://www.myfootballfacts.com/pre...ier-league/premier-league-penalty-statistics/


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It was only 2 seasons back 4 teams didn’t get any in the season (incl West Ham)

Good link here to the last 10 seasons and who got pens.

https://www.myfootballfacts.com/pre...ier-league/premier-league-penalty-statistics/

Click to expand...

Google paul.


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## Orikoru (Jan 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It was only 2 seasons back 4 teams didn’t get any in the season (incl West Ham)

Good link here to the last 10 seasons and who got pens.

https://www.myfootballfacts.com/pre...ier-league/premier-league-penalty-statistics/

Click to expand...

There's something wrong with their historical data though, unless I'm reading it wrong. Noticed it last week after I posted the same link. 18/19 in the first chart it says 103 penalties. Then scroll down to the breakdown by club and the total is only 31, plus Leeds are in the table as well?? Dunno what they've done there. I think that might be the only table that's wrong to be fair.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Google paul. 

Click to expand...

Well I knew we’d been hard done to over the years so I thought I’d help the West Ham fans come to terms with it.


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## Crow (Jan 20, 2021)

Very rarely drop in here but I thought I'd take a look at all the comments regarding the mighty foxes going top; there are just two posts. 
Lots of mentions for Chelsea and Lampard, however, who took a hell of a beating.

Didn't realise that football fans were so one dimensional in their views, if it's not a team/player/manager they know about then it's not happening.


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## Jensen (Jan 20, 2021)

GG26 said:



			Great time to be following Leicester.  The difference to when we won the league is that this team looks like they can compete for a few years with a number of good young players. 

So far we have managed to replace players that have moved on, eg Ndidi for Kante, Tielemans for Drinkwater, Soyunchu or Fofana for Maguire, Castagne for Chilwell, and even Maddison for Mahrez, and have much greater strength in depth.  We will struggle to replace Vardy when the time comes, but you never know we may unearth a gem from somewhere.

Hoping we can keep it going and secure a top four spot at the end of the season.
		
Click to expand...

Maddison is a quality player who has more to his game than Mahrez


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## SteveW86 (Jan 20, 2021)

Crow said:



			Very rarely drop in here but I thought I'd take a look at all the comments regarding the mighty foxes going top; there are just two posts. 
Lots of mentions for Chelsea and Lampard, however, who took a hell of a beating.

Didn't realise that football fans were so one dimensional in their views, if it's not a team/player/manager they know about then it's not happening.  

Click to expand...


I think it tends to be the more controversial topics that get more talk time. The way Chelsea are playing at the minute, with the amount they have spent and the usual cycle of managers for me is a bigger talking point.

Leicester have shown over the last 2 seasons that they are a quality outfit and for me its not a great surprise that they are right up there in the table. I'm not sure there are many neutrals who dont like this Leicester side.


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## Orikoru (Jan 20, 2021)

Crow said:



			Very rarely drop in here but I thought I'd take a look at all the comments regarding the mighty foxes going top; there are just two posts. 
Lots of mentions for Chelsea and Lampard, however, who took a hell of a beating.

Didn't realise that football fans were so one dimensional in their views, if it's not a team/player/manager they know about then it's not happening.  

Click to expand...

Every half decent team has been top at one time or another this season. Every two weeks it's someone else. Next it will Man City anyway.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2021)

Crow said:



			Very rarely drop in here but I thought I'd take a look at all the comments regarding the mighty foxes going top; there are just two posts. 
Lots of mentions for Chelsea and Lampard, however, who took a hell of a beating.

Didn't realise that football fans were so one dimensional in their views, if it's not a team/player/manager they know about then it's not happening.  

Click to expand...

Some fans 👍 one post was mine. I was on a City fan page and you were asked for your three fave titles. I put down AGUEROOOOOO for the first, Centurions for the second and Leicester for the third. Flippin eck it kicked off 😁

Come what May I still think this season is a good un.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 20, 2021)

Crow said:



			Very rarely drop in here but I thought I'd take a look at all the comments regarding the mighty foxes going top; there are just two posts. 
Lots of mentions for Chelsea and Lampard, however, who took a hell of a beating.

Didn't realise that football fans were so one dimensional in their views, if it's not a team/player/manager they know about then it's not happening.  

Click to expand...

They have been shocking to watch in some earlier games though.
I like watching them ,they are a quality outfit when in form like atm.
As Tashy said 40/1 to win that’s very generous. Has that changed now?


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## fundy (Jan 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			They have been shocking to watch in some earlier games though.
I like watching them ,they are a quality outfit when in form like atm.
*As Tashy said 40/1 to win that’s very generous. Has that changed now?*

Click to expand...

20/1 most places currently


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## Slime (Jan 20, 2021)

I happen to think that Leicester City have the 2nd best manager in the prem.
I know, controversial.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			I happen to think that Leicester City have the 2nd best manager in the prem.
I know, controversial.
		
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Its controversial if he is behind big fat Sam 😁


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 20, 2021)

Fat Sam may be in trouble again https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/footbal...NsgJowHsI4EbPZuqfMljbkVnDtiuMgCJs43tdSFZ5qFIk


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## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2021)

This City v Villa game has been brilliant shame John Moss has ruined it.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fat Sam may be in trouble again https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55723425?at_campaign=64&at_custom3=Match+of+the+Day&at_medium=custom7&at_custom1=[post+type]&at_custom4=90F430F6-5A9D-11EB-855F-D3ED39982C1E&at_custom2=facebook_page&fbclid=IwAR3e5_FIF1NllRNsgJowHsI4EbPZuqfMljbkVnDtiuMgCJs43tdSFZ5qFIk

Click to expand...

I saw it earlier but struggled to find a link. Very brown envelope dodgy indeed.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			This City v Villa game has been brilliant shame John Moss has ruined it.
		
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cheers Stu, Ave not got BT 🤬

City have scored a penalty, must be a mistake 😳


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## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			cheers Stu, Ave not got BT 🤬
		
Click to expand...

One of the best games I’ve seen all season.

end to end, manager sent off, loads of chances, poor finishing and a blatant offside goal to break the deadlock.

John Moss won’t need his whistle next weekend.....


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## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			One of the best games I’ve seen all season.

end to end, manager sent off, loads of chances, poor finishing and a blatant offside goal to break the deadlock.

John Moss won’t need his whistle next weekend.....
		
Click to expand...

Boom MOTD on tonight


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			20/1 most places currently
		
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That’s still not bad.


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## Slime (Jan 20, 2021)

Is Klopp or Guardiola in charge of VAR at Craven Cottage tonight?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			Is Klopp or Guardiola in charge of VAR at Craven Cottage tonight?
		
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😂😂😂😂 you can’t be complaining over not getting a pen 🤦


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## Slime (Jan 20, 2021)

It was pretty clear ....................... to me.
Should I give my specs a clean.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2021)

I never seen it


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## Kellfire (Jan 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂😂😂 you can’t be complaining over not getting a pen 🤦
		
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 Do you know which team has been given the most penalties in the premier league?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Do you know which team has been given the most penalties in the premier league? 

Click to expand...

Yeah and its not Yernited.


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## Slime (Jan 20, 2021)

Wow, that was a 'shop window' goal of the highest calibre.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I saw it earlier but struggled to find a link. Very brown envelope dodgy indeed.
		
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Happens all the time in football , Sam needs to just keep his mouth shut

Howard's transfer to Everton

Saha transfer to spurs from Everton

Kabba Sheffield utd to Watford 

The key is providing it's a "gentleman's" agreement they can't stop them 

The rumour I've heard is we didn't want to sell them Snodgrass until after we played them but they wanted him for wolves 

So they said if we don't play him against u will you let us sign him now

Which is what happened


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 20, 2021)

Bugger. Did well enough to stifle United for long parts but some strike from Pogba


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## Kellfire (Jan 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah and its not Yernited.
		
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It’s why I always laugh when I see the usual suspects.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 20, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			I think it tends to be the more controversial topics that get more talk time. The way Chelsea are playing at the minute, with the amount they have spent and the usual cycle of managers for me is a bigger talking point.

Leicester have shown over the last 2 seasons that they are a quality outfit and for me its not a great surprise that they are right up there in the table. I'm not sure there are many neutrals who dont like this Leicester side.
		
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Lets face it, there are two aspects to Leicester's "acceptability" by most.

One, they are the underdogs, and what they did the other was truly amazing, and was a great title win against the odds, and was also cheered on by myself.

The other is that they arent rivals to the normal teams challenging - City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea and others over the last 10 years or so. They are not an "unbearable" winner by them teams, or any tbh, apart from Derby and forest fans, possibly. Everyone said we were unbearable, cos of our win, but if we won it another 2-3 times over the next 10 years it wouldn't be as much, as would be a bit more normal. Do people not think that Spurs, West ham, Everton fans wouldn't be unbearable if they won it? Not for the majority as the majority dont have massive countrywide fanbases the way Liverpool and United do, so everyone knows a good few United or Liverpool fans, but most people who live outside of London or Manchester dont know a good few City, Spurs, Everton fans.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2021)

Just caught the end of the BT sport coverage and they're talking about City's goal not being offside. 

I'm confused, maybe our resident ref could explain why he wasn't offside.

For me, The ball is played towards Rodri, Mings controls the ball, Rodri has came from an offside position and made a tackle to win the ball. When the ball was played Rodri was in an offside position. We often see these given when a player is judged to come from an offside position. 

Mings shouldve done better though.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			Wow, that was a 'shop window' goal of the highest calibre.
		
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When he scored I thought of you, was you seething because he'd scored or happy because you'd took the lead? 😄


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## pauljames87 (Jan 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Just caught the end of the BT sport coverage and they're talking about City's goal not being offside. 

I'm confused, maybe our resident ref could explain why he wasn't offside.

For me, The ball is played towards Rodri, Mings controls the ball, Rodri has came from an offside position and made a tackle to win the ball. When the ball was played Rodri was in an offside position. We often see these given when a player is judged to come from an offside position. 

Mings shouldve done better though.
		
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https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

Key points 

It is not an offence to be in an offside position

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent. 
A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).


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## Slime (Jan 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			When he scored I thought of you, was you seething because he'd scored or happy because you'd took the lead? 😄
		
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Oh, I was happy.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

Key points 

It is not an offence to be in an offside position

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent. 
A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).
		
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There's many different situations that offside covers. It was OK when offside was offside, now there's that many variations of offside is the current rule fair?

For my mind Rhodri has gained an advantage from an offside position.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 21, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			There's many different situations that offside covers. It was OK when offside was offside, now there's that many variations of offside is the current rule fair?

For my mind Rhodri has gained an advantage from an offside position.
		
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Ming's passed the ball deliberately (attempted to)

There for he is inside


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Ming's passed the ball deliberately (attempted to)

There for he is inside
		
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When Robbie Keane, playing for Spurs, came from behind the goalkeeper to tackle him (ball on floor) and then knocked the ball into an empty net everyone praised his quick thinking and nobody suggested he should have been given offside. 

This IMO is no different and as that aspect of the Law hasn't changed Rhodri was rightly considered onside.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 21, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			When Robbie Keane, playing for Spurs, came from behind the goalkeeper to tackle him (ball on floor) and then knocked the ball into an empty net everyone praised his quick thinking and nobody suggested he should have been given offside. 

This IMO is no different and as that aspect of the Law hasn't changed Rhodri was rightly considered onside.
		
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It's amazing how many people claim to not know the law (ie their manager) if you are in the game and don't know a basic law like that you shouldn't comment on it..got himself sent off and then still mouthed off


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			There's many different situations that offside covers. It was OK when offside was offside, now there's that many variations of offside is the current rule fair?

For my mind Rhodri has gained an advantage from an offside position.
		
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Starting with Mings, when he has seen Rodri twice, and tries to chest it down I will never know why he did not just head it clear. As soon as he did that the ball is live and Rodri deffo gains an advantage. If that had happened against City I would be spitting feathers. A small lapse of concentration has caused much discussion.
Watching MOTD they were on about the fairness of this rule which has been around for a few years. If they knew about this why not push for it to be changed, or have they. Why wait for an incident like this to highlight it.

That aside, it looked a good game in horrendous Conditions


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bugger. Did well enough to stifle United for long parts but some strike from Pogba
		
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Homer last two times Ave seen Fulham they have more than held there own playing good football. Need to stick with the manager.
What surprised me was Fulham playing six players who are on loan. Parker has got them playing well


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2021)

Just watched that City goal. I can see why they've not given offside. Firstly I don't think it was an intended pass to Rodri, he just sticks his head on it to intercept the clearance. Rodri's presence has not caused Mings to play the ball when he wouldn't have done otherwise either - since the ball was straight to him. So when Mings takes it down it's a 'new phase of play' as they say? 

But also..

Offside offence

_*A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate* is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
*challenging an opponent for the ball *or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball_


If you put the bit in bold together there you could definitely say he was offside. It doesn't say it has to be a deliberate pass to him, I guess that's a bit of a myth. He has come from an offside position and challenged for the ball.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Just watched that City goal. I can see why they've not given offside. Firstly I don't think it was an intended pass to Rodri, he just sticks his head on it to intercept the clearance. Rodri's presence has not caused Mings to play the ball when he wouldn't have done otherwise either - since the ball was straight to him. So when Mings takes it down it's a 'new phase of play' as they say?

But also..

Offside offence

_*A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate* is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
*challenging an opponent for the ball *or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball_


If you put the bit in bold together there you could definitely say he was offside. It doesn't say it has to be a deliberate pass to him, I guess that's a bit of a myth. He has come from an offside position and challenged for the ball.
		
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You’ve answered your own point there.

The bits in bold would of been used if it was one phase of play, but as Mings is under no pressure and a 'new phase of play' begins, everything you posted after that  ie the bits in bold are not relevant to the new phase.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 21, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			When Robbie Keane, playing for Spurs, came from behind the goalkeeper to tackle him (ball on floor) and then knocked the ball into an empty net everyone praised his quick thinking and nobody suggested he should have been given offside.

This IMO is no different and as that aspect of the Law hasn't changed Rhodri was rightly considered onside.
		
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Totally different.

IIrc, The keeper had control of the ball, then Keane did what he did, and received the ball (as such) from the keeper who is the opponent.

Last nights was a moving ball, the fella come from an offside position, and was also very close to Mings that made it even worse. Unrelated examples.


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You’ve answered your own point there.

The bits in bold would of been used if it was one phase of play, but as Mings is under no pressure and a 'new phase of play' begins, everything you posted after that  ie the bits in bold are not relevant to the new phase.
		
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I think the offside is law is poo to be honest, just like the handball one is. It's not black and white, you can read it in a way that suggests he's offside, or read it another way that says he isn't. Too many grey areas IMO. The word 'phase' doesn't feature in the law anywhere, so that might be another myth that's come from pundits trying to understand it - which really confuses incidents like this one.

Ignoring the laws as they're written and just to give my opinion - I think that incident should be offside. The ball was sent towards him by a teammate while he was stood offside, and then he went for the ball. It's only the shoddily written laws that gave him a loophole.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think the offside is law is poo to be honest, just like the handball one is. It's not black and white, you can read it in a way that suggests he's offside, or read it another way that says he isn't. Too many grey areas IMO. The word 'phase' doesn't feature in the law anywhere, so that might be another myth that's come from pundits trying to understand it - which really confuses incidents like this one.

Ignoring the laws as they're written and just to give my opinion - I think that incident should be offside. The ball was sent towards him by a teammate while he was stood offside, and then he went for the ball. It's only the shoddily written laws that gave him a loophole.
		
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They are not shoddily written, the problem is you’d never get them correct, look at the Spurs v LPool one a few years ago when Spurs got the benefit after Lovren was adjudged to of intentionally played the ball and Kane (I think) got the advantage.

I think offside could only ever be made simple if you made it irrelevant as to whether a play is offside if active or not.


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			They are not shoddily written, the problem is you’d never get them correct, look at the Spurs v LPool one a few years ago when Spurs got the benefit after Lovren was adjudged to of intentionally played the ball and Kane (I think) got the advantage.

I think offside could only ever be made simple if you made it irrelevant as to whether a play is offside if active or not.
		
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Don't remember the incident you're talking about. 

As the old saying goes (think it was Clough?) "if he's not interfering with play then why the hell is on the pitch!" Rodri comes from an offside position and tackles the ball so he'd be deemed active surely. You should only be deemed inactive if you're literally standing there doing nothing, like they sometimes to with their arms up in the air making it very clear to everyone that they're not getting involved.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Don't remember the incident you're talking about.

As the old saying goes (think it was Clough?) "if he's not interfering with play then why the hell is on the pitch!" Rodri comes from an offside position and tackles the ball so he'd be deemed active surely. You should only be deemed inactive if you're literally standing there doing nothing, like they sometimes to with their arms up in the air making it very clear to everyone that they're not getting involved.
		
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Again though mate, you can’t use the Clough quote then give an example of a “get out clause” a player is either on or offside if they are on a pitch. Loopholes would be used to seek an advantage.

Lpool v Spurs 2018:
https://www.teamtalk.com/news/match...blundering-over-liverpool-v-spurs-controversy


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Again though mate, you can’t use the Clough quote then give an example of a “get out clause” a player is either on or offside if they are on a pitch. Loopholes would be used to seek an advantage.

Lpool v Spurs 2018:
https://www.teamtalk.com/news/match...blundering-over-liverpool-v-spurs-controversy

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I mean as long as he's moving he's involved. If you say they're only inactive if they're standing perfectly still with their arms up, then it removes any grey area, that would be very easy to see.

I only vaguely recall it and can't find a video now - but from a couple of screenshots I've found then yeah morally that should be offside too. That was a very similar incident, they've obviously decided that the defender had opportunity to clear it and the presence of an offside player didn't affect their ability to do so. Seems a bit of a nonsense, that. As I say, if you're offside then you should be offside.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Totally different.

IIrc, The keeper had control of the ball, then Keane did what he did, and received the ball (as such) from the keeper who is the opponent.

Last nights was a moving ball, the fella come from an offside position, and was also very close to Mings that made it even worse. Unrelated examples.
		
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There's the problem, how do you define control of the ball. Was Mings not in control before the challenge?

Also how long does a player returning from an offside position have to wait before becoming involved?

In any event under the current rules the correct decision was made.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			There's the problem, how do you define control of the ball. Was Mings not in control before the challenge?

Also how long does a player returning from an offside position have to wait before becoming involved?

In any event under the current rules the correct decision was made.
		
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For me Rodri has come from an " offside" position to be involved. He has gained an advantage from Mings poor decision. For me he is offside. If Bernado had  challenged from an onside position and the ball breaks to Rodri who is then onside play on.


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## Beezerk (Jan 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			For me Rodri has come from an " offside" position to be involved. He has gained an advantage from Mings poor decision. For me he is offside. If Bernado had  challenged from an onside position and the ball breaks to Rodri who is then onside play on.
		
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Aaah the old common sense rules, it will never catch on 🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 21, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Just caught the end of the BT sport coverage and they're talking about City's goal not being offside.

I'm confused, maybe our resident ref could explain why he wasn't offside.

For me, The ball is played towards Rodri, Mings controls the ball, Rodri has came from an offside position and made a tackle to win the ball. When the ball was played Rodri was in an offside position. We often see these given when a player is judged to come from an offside position.

Mings shouldve done better though.
		
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If Mings had played a pass he’s not offside ,as I understand it.
But I don’t think Mings had full control of the ball when He challenged him and imo He’s offside.
Another stupid rule.
This happens quite a lot where a striker is miles off and the defender not knowing puts it out for a corner and the flag dosnt go up .
But if he challenges the defender he’s offside .
It needs sorting out.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 21, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bugger. Did well enough to stifle United for long parts but some strike from Pogba
		
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Your defenders gave him so much time to decide what he wanted to do.
You can’t give a player of his class that much time.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 21, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			There's the problem, how do you define control of the ball. Was Mings not in control before the challenge?

Also how long does a player returning from an offside position have to wait before becoming involved?

In any event under the current rules the correct decision was made.
		
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https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...news/liverpool-mane-ronaldo-man-city-19669655






The keeper had it in his hands, which is what I would say would be total control, then he as such has it stolen from him after he has realeased the ball, as such so keane wouldnt be offside, just like if you intercept a backpass.

Look at the C ronaldo one in the attached that was given offside, exactly ths same as last nights. Ronaldo even looks sheepish as he's expecting it to be given.

If Mings controlled it and Rodri was 6-7 yards away, then he closed him down as he dawdled on it would be a different situation, but coming in over the defenders shoulder and being just 1-2 yards away is very different.

Oh look, it was Birmingham. 

Offside for me. The Lovren one was also offisde against Kane the other year, as well.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You’ve answered your own point there.

The bits in bold would of been used if it was one phase of play, but as Mings is under no pressure  and a 'new phase of play' begins, everything you posted after that  ie the bits in bold are not relevant to the new phase.
		
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If the flag dosnt go up when does the phase stop then start again?
I think Mings thought he couldn’t challenge him as he was offside.( wrongly as it turns out) I didn’t know that I must admit.
I wonder if Mings knew that rule, as his manager dosnt obviously.
He never really had control of the ball imo as he was challenged from behind after cheasting the ball down and it got stuck under his legs.
If he turned and played a back pass that’s different.
 Rodri is offside and has gained an advantage from it.
Any footy fan in fairness would say that’s offside.
The laws an ass.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...news/liverpool-mane-ronaldo-man-city-19669655






The keeper had it in his hands, which is what I would say would be total control, then he as such has it stolen from him after he has realeased the ball, as such so keane wouldnt be offside, just like if you intercept a backpass.

Look at the C ronaldo one in the attached that was given offside, exactly ths same as last nights. Ronaldo even looks sheepish as he's expecting it to be given.

If Mings controlled it and Rodri was 6-7 yards away, then he closed him down as he dawdled on it would be a different situation, but coming in over the defenders shoulder and being just 1-2 yards away is very different.

Oh look, it was Birmingham. 

Offside for me. The Lovren one was also offisde against Kane the other year, as well.
		
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But Rhodri would have been offside had he intercepted a backpass from Mings as he was already in an offside position before Mings played the ball.

In this case Rhodri played the ball in an onside position having returned from an offside one.

It might be a confusing rule but that doesn't mean that the officials  were wrong.

This is why it amuses me when the likes of Alan Brazil etc; suggest that ex-players and managers should be involved with  VAR as so many of them clearly don't know the rules.


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



*But Rhodri would have been offside had he intercepted a backpass from Mings as he was already in an offside position before Mings played the ball.*

In this case Rhodri played the ball in an onside position having returned from an offside one.

It might be a confusing rule but that doesn't mean that the officials  were wrong.

This is why it amuses me when the likes of Alan Brazil etc; suggest that ex-players and managers should be involved with  VAR as so many of them clearly don't know the rules.
		
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Erm no, because they're on different teams? You can't be offside if the opposition passes to you. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352017981002420229

I think it's completely plausible that Mings knew Rodri was there, and chose to bring the ball down rather than clear it first time because he's thinking Rodri is offside so no need to worry about him. And I think he's justified to think that. But as you say at the end there Mickie, it was a case of the player not knowing the rule. (But I don't blame him really for not knowing it to that extent.)


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Erm no, because they're on different teams? You can't be offside if the opposition passes to you. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352017981002420229

I think it's completely plausible that Mings knew Rodri was there, and chose to bring the ball down rather than clear it first time because he's thinking Rodri is offside so no need to worry about him. And I think he's justified to think that. But as you say at the end there Mickie, it was a case of the player not knowing the rule. (But I don't blame him really for not knowing it to that extent.)
		
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The "played on" rule changed.

If the player was in an offside position prior to the opposition player playing the ball he remains  offside.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Erm no, because they're on different teams? You can't be offside if the opposition passes to you. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352017981002420229

I think it's completely plausible that Mings knew Rodri was there, and chose to bring the ball down rather than clear it first time because he's thinking Rodri is offside so no need to worry about him. And I think he's justified to think that. But as you say at the end there Mickie, it was a case of the player not knowing the rule. (But I don't blame him really for not knowing it to that extent.)
		
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Chances are Ming's is as thick as two short planks


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			The "played on" rule changed.

If the player was in an offside position prior to the opposition player playing the ball he remains  offside.
		
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No he wouldn't be would he, not if the defender took possession and played it. It would be exactly the same as this incident and he'd be onside because the defender deliberately played it.



pauljames87 said:



			Chances are Ming's is as thick as two short planks
		
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I've seen him interviewed and didn't get that impression to be honest, he comes across quite well.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			No he wouldn't be would he, not if the defender took possession and played it. It would be exactly the same as this incident and he'd be onside because the defender deliberately played it.


I've seen him interviewed and didn't get that impression to be honest, he comes across quite well.
		
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Considering how much players will do to con the officials and bend the rules 

I find it staggering how many people don't know a simple rule that's been in play years


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Considering how much players will do to con the officials and bend the rules

I find it staggering how many people don't know a simple rule that's been in play years
		
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It's not a _simple_ rule, I would have assumed the same as Mings, that the player who's 20 yards offside was actually offside. Ultimately better not to take the risk though of course.


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## sunshine (Jan 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Erm no, because they're on different teams? You can't be offside if the opposition passes to you. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352017981002420229

I think it's completely plausible that Mings knew Rodri was there, and chose to bring the ball down rather than clear it first time because he's thinking Rodri is offside so no need to worry about him. And I think he's justified to think that. But as you say at the end there Mickie, it was a case of the player not knowing the rule. (But I don't blame him really for not knowing it to that extent.)
		
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Mings is a complete embarrassment, premier league player paid millions of pounds a year but doesn't know the rules of the game. This isn't even a new change, it's set out in the laws of the game and every professional should understand them.

This incident was controversial, no doubt. But the controversy is about timing, not position: at what point was Mings in control of the ball? The ref decided that was when he chested it. Did Mings believe he was entitled to bring the ball down and stand there or dribble it without being challenged by Rhodri? Surely he knew at some point the phase is over and Rhodri can challenge him.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 21, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			But Rhodri would have been offside had he intercepted a backpass from Mings as he was already in an offside position before Mings played the ball.

In this case Rhodri played the ball in an onside position having returned from an offside one.

It might be a confusing rule but that doesn't mean that the officials  were wrong.

This is why it amuses me when the likes of Alan Brazil etc; suggest that ex-players and managers should be involved with  VAR as so many of them clearly don't know the rules.
		
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Quite possibly, but not necessarily so. If Mings had time to bring the fall down "unopposed" then, say 2-3 seconds later tried to play a back pass and passed it to Rhodri, I'm not sure what would be the outcome, but as he had time to make his decision unopposed may then be a new phase of play.

I'm also not sure why people are saying the law is wrong, just because IMO one ref got it wrong?????

Can you also explain why the Ronaldo one was given as offside? Correctly so, IMO.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's not a _simple_ rule, I would have assumed the same as Mings, that the player who's 20 yards offside was actually offside. Ultimately better not to take the risk though of course.
		
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It is really simple though

Being offside itself isn't an offence ..

And soon as Ming's brings ball down that's it rodri can challenge him


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## sunshine (Jan 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			And soon as Ming's brings ball down that's it rodri can challenge him
		
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Yes!


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Mings is a complete embarrassment, premier league player paid millions of pounds a year but doesn't know the rules of the game. This isn't even a new change, it's set out in the laws of the game and every professional should understand them.

This incident was controversial, no doubt. But the controversy is about timing, not position: at what point was Mings in control of the ball? The ref decided that was when he chested it. Did Mings believe he was entitled to bring the ball down and stand there or dribble it without being challenged by Rhodri? Surely he knew at some point the phase is over and Rhodri can challenge him.
		
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Yeah - I think if he takes possession of the ball, has it under full control and is then tackled by the player coming back, you'd say fair enough, not offside because he plenty of time to deal with it. But he tried to chest it, made a bit of a bad job, and Rodri was there to nick it practically before the ball hit the ground. That's why it feels harsh on Mings - he never really had it in his control. But the rule says that he intentionally played it. 

I think he's only trying to chest it down and then pass it to someone, even if he saw Rodri there he probably felt he would have time to do that with two touches - unfortunately the first touch almost seems like it hit his chin and he messed up his chest control. Remembering that Mings is left-footed, he was almost certainly trying to chest this down to his left side - the opposite side to where Rodri was - so it would have been safe. But he gets it so wrong the ball fell on his other side where Rodri was able to pinch it.


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## sunshine (Jan 21, 2021)

It's harsh on Mings, because he didn't even have the ball at his feet, but the decision was consistent with the rules and Mings should have known this and played the ball accordingly.

Dean Smith even bigger embarrassment than Mings.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 21, 2021)

If this were golf then the player would get hammered for not knowing the rules. If might be a questionable rule but it's there. Players and managers really need to know more.


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			It is really simple though

Being offside itself isn't an offence ..

And soon as Ming's brings ball down that's it rodri can challenge him
		
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It's not simple though. Take the Lovren/Kane example posed earlier which was similar - as I recall Lovren played the ball but made an even worse hash of it than Mings, and the ball came off him and went through to Kane (who was already in an offside position). I don't think it's fair to say oh he tried to kick it therefore it cancels the offside. It doesn't make any sense because if Kane wasn't there in that offside position, there would have been no need for Lovren to try and hash it clear, he could have let it run through, taken his time etc. The presence off the player in the offside position always influences the defender's decision, therefore I think they should be offside. The law is rubbish. 

What if, instead of chesting it, the ball was a bit higher and just whiffed off the top of Mings' head and went through to Rodri and he's in on goal. This rule says he'd still be onside then because Mings intentionally played it - which is crazy. What if Mings tried to chest it like he did, but got it so wrong that he misses the ball completely - now Rodri is offside! It's backward. 

I'm certain the rule used to be that if an attacker played it, and came off a defender on the way to a player in an offside position, they would still be given offside if they were already in the offside position when their teammate played it. The deflection wouldn't cancel it out. But now it's open to the possibility of any deflection on the pass means he's no longer offside because the defender intentionally blocked it? If you want an offside to be given offside, you're better off doing absolutely nothing at all.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Erm no, because they're on different teams? You can't be offside if the opposition passes to you. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352017981002420229

I think it's completely plausible that Mings knew Rodri was there, and chose to bring the ball down rather than clear it first time because he's thinking Rodri is offside so no need to worry about him. And I think he's justified to think that. But as you say at the end there Mickie, it was a case of the player not knowing the rule. (But I don't blame him really for not knowing it to that extent.)
		
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Mings looked back twice to see where Rodri was!
So if Rodri has any influence on Mings decision ( and he did imo ) to play the ball by controlling it instead of heading it away.
Then he is interfering in the defenders choice and should be offside.
The rule is there but I would ask “ did Mings have control of the ball completely before Rodri challenged him , I think he didn’t.
This rule is a bit of a joke.


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Mings looked back twice to see where Rodri was!
So if Rodri has any influence on Mings decision ( and he did imo ) to play the ball by controlling it instead of heading it away.
Then he is interfering in the defenders choice and should be offside.
This rule is a bit of a joke.
		
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Yeah, as I said, I think he sees him but concludes "he's miles offside so I don't have to worry" then tries to chest it onto his left foot, away from Rodri anyway. Gets it all wrong and the ball falls to his right instead, where he is tackled.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			It is really simple though

Being offside itself isn't an offence ..

*And soon as Ming's brings ball down that's it rodri can challenge him*

Click to expand...

Might aswell scrap offside then.

Or teams will start leaving players behind the lines and it’s Upto the defenders to leave the ball and *hope* var is in good working order.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Aaah the old common sense rules, it will never catch on 🤣
		
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Tash and common sense 🤔😳🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😉


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## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Tash and common sense 🤔😳🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😉
		
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Did missus Tash post that?


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Did missus Tash post that?
		
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Yeah, there’s tippex all over me iPad, she spelled “common” wrong 😉😁


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## hairball_89 (Jan 21, 2021)

Everything we deserve. Again.


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## Captainron (Jan 21, 2021)

been loads of chances in this game. Still loads of time


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2021)

Blimey


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## Slime (Jan 21, 2021)

What a crazy season this is.
I wish I'd watched it!


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## ger147 (Jan 21, 2021)

Klopp must go...


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## fundy (Jan 21, 2021)

Been a while since Barnes scored the winner at Anfield


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2021)

One defeat at home in 69 games is not terminal, but if Liverpool do not sort out a half decent centre half and free up a central midfielder it could be a painful few months. 
That aside well played Burnley.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			One defeat at home in 69 games is not terminal, but if Liverpool do not sort out a half decent centre half and free up a central midfielder it could be a painful few months.
That aside well played Burnley.
		
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We won't. If they were going to bring someone in it would've happened by now. we're 3/4 way through January. The board/management knew we needed a CB in October (or whenever it was) - if one was coming in they would have been in a red shirt at the start of the month.

It's completely bananas. The last few games we've looked like we think we're 4-0 up with 15 minutes to go and the opposition have 9 men. Just keep the ball and don't get injured. Sit against a 'low block' side, which most teams are when they play us now, and get the ball wide and lob it in has *never* worked. Our crossing was brilliant when it was into space. Space we aren't afforded now. so why are we still doing it? Beggars belief.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 21, 2021)

Shooting practise for Liverpool in training tomorrow. 27 shots and only 6 on target.


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## IanM (Jan 21, 2021)

Decent performance by former Aldershot goalkeeper


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 21, 2021)

Not an easy run of fixtures coming up for Liverpool either. Spurs (a), West Ham (a), Brighton (h), Man City (h), Leicester (a), Everton (h) their next 6 games. Having said that they'll probably go and win all six of them and go back to the top of the league.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			We won't. If they were going to bring someone in it would've happened by now. we're 3/4 way through January. The board/management knew we needed a CB in October (or whenever it was) - if one was coming in they would have been in a red shirt at the start of the month.

It's completely bananas. The last few games we've looked like we think we're 4-0 up with 15 minutes to go and the opposition have 9 men. Just keep the ball and don't get injured. Sit against a 'low block' side, which most teams are when they play us now, and get the ball wide and lob it in has *never* worked. Our crossing was brilliant when it was into space. Space we aren't afforded now. so why are we still doing it? Beggars belief.
		
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I know I am like a stuck record but watching Liverpool for the last year and a half was like watching City when they got 100 points. They just blew teams away. This season Mane, Bobby and Salah, just have not had the space. It was exactly the same for City. Teams playing with 5 at the back and 5 in front. It was purgatory trying to break down teams. Even this year look at City's goals scored. Like Ave mentioned, somehow Liverpool have to grind out results or Everton, spurs etc could be taking the 4th spot


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 21, 2021)

Just can’t miss your chances in games like that.
Playing with makeshift CB wasn’t the problem imo .


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I know I am like a stuck record but watching Liverpool for the last year and a half was like watching City when they got 100 points. They just blew teams away. This season Mane, Bobby and Salah, just have not had the space. It was exactly the same for City. Teams playing with 5 at the back and 5 in front. It was purgatory trying to break down teams. Even this year look at City's goals scored. Like Ave mentioned, *somehow Liverpool have to grind out results or Everton, spurs etc could be taking the 4th spot*

Click to expand...

Are you writing Liverpool off as title contenders already and suggesting that they might struggle for top 4?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 21, 2021)

It’s wasn’t really a shock - been very flat since the Palace win, players off form , some just look like they are running on empty even though they have just had a week break. They are in a proper rut at the moment and need something - TAA clearly needs a rest he is spent at the moment. It’s a strange old season and long way to go.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just can’t miss your chances in games like that.
*Playing with makeshift CB wasn’t the problem imo .*

Click to expand...

To be honest I think that playing with makeshift centre backs has been your biggest problem all season. Not because of how the stand ins have performed in defence but because it's taken Fabinho and Henderson out of your midfield.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just can’t miss your chances in games like that.
Playing with makeshift CB wasn’t the problem imo .
		
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Hasn't been the problem for weeks. Score one or 2 and the clean sheets (almost) every game wouldn't be too bad at all!


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Are you writing Liverpool off as title contenders already and suggesting that they might struggle for top 4?
		
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Anything is possible this season.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			To be honest I think that playing with makeshift centre backs has been your biggest problem all season. Not because of how the stand ins have performed in defence but because it's taken Fabinho and Henderson out of your midfield.
		
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It’s not just that they link the midfield with attack, but as City have with Rodri and Gundoghan. They protect what was an iffy defence.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 21, 2021)

And just for a laugh, I had a look at the comments on the Liverpool facebook page. My favourite...!


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## JamesR (Jan 21, 2021)

So, Burnley beat Liverpool, the reigning champions. I assume that means we are now the best team in the land 🏆


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			To be honest I think that playing with makeshift centre backs has been your biggest problem all season. Not because of how the stand ins have performed in defence but because it's taken Fabinho and Henderson out of your midfield.
		
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We have had 90 efforts on goal and scored one ( sky reporter asked Klopp)
So imo the missing midfield isn’t the problem it’s the finishing.
Any team would miss those players but it’s up front where not preforming.
If you score your goals it takes the pressure off the rest of the team.


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## Reemul (Jan 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			We have had 90 efforts on goal and scored one ( sky reporter asked Klopp)
So imo the missing midfield isn’t the problem it’s the finishing.
Any team would miss those players but it’s up front where not preforming.
If you score your goals it takes the pressure off the rest of the team.
		
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I watched the game outside of Donkey Divock missing that sitter not a lot of clear cut chances, the midfield playing in defence has a knock on effect, then your midfield is struggling to create clear cut chances, it does not matter how good your forward line is without a decent spine behind and you don't have that at the moment. You are all over the place at the back and midfield and if you want to challenge you need to get something sorted.

It was a dreadful game to watch and I always felt Burnley might nick one.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 21, 2021)

Reemul said:



			I watched the game outside of Donkey Divock missing that sitter not a lot of clear cut chances, the midfield playing in defence has a knock on effect, then your midfield is struggling to create clear cut chances, it does not matter how good your forward line is without a decent spine behind and you don't have that at the moment. You are all over the place at the back and midfield and if you want to challenge you need to get something sorted.

It was a dreadful game to watch and I always felt Burnley might nick one.
		
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Yes I do see that .
We have young CBS but he’s not playing them regularly and hasn’t bought anyone
But that dosnt excuse the finishing imo.
Not just tonight we have missed some shocking sitters.
You can’t win games if you don’t score goals.
Teams have worked out how to play us it’s not rocket science.


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## Junior (Jan 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s wasn’t really a shock - been very flat since the Palace win, players off form , some just look like they are running on empty even though they have just had a week break. They are in a proper rut at the moment and need something - TAA clearly needs a rest he is spent at the moment. It’s a strange old season and long way to go.
		
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You're still creating chances.....This is typical Liverpool, give the rest of us a glimmer of hope then will prob go unbeaten for the rest of the season , win the league and remain unbearable


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I do see that .
We have young CBS but he’s not playing them regularly and hasn’t bought anyone
But that dosnt excuse the finishing imo.
Not just tonight we have missed some shocking sitters.
You can’t win games if you don’t score goals.
Teams have worked out how to play us it’s not rocket science.
		
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There can be lots of formation analysis,  but probably the simplest is, they do not look balanced.


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## Orikoru (Jan 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I do see that .
We have young CBS but he’s not playing them regularly and hasn’t bought anyone
But that dosnt excuse the finishing imo.
Not just tonight we have missed some shocking sitters.
You can’t win games if you don’t score goals.
Teams have worked out how to play us it’s not rocket science.
		
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The problem is Salah and Mane are knackered. He's played them every single bloody game for 3 years. Resting them for 30 mins here and there isn't enough. And when your wingers are not scoring you need your actual number 9 to pick up the slack - but Firmino has never been good enough in front of goal in my opinion. He's a nice team player and all the rest of it but he never scores enough goals. If Jota was fit I reckoned he'd be keeping Firmino on the bench by now. Other than him the back-up players are nowhere near good enough. Shaqiri and Origi are half decent mid-table players and no more than that.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2021)

JamesR said:



			So, Burnley beat Liverpool, the reigning champions. I assume that means we are now the best team in the land 🏆
		
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In the world, we're reigning world club champions still.

It worked for Scotland in 1966, so why not?


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## JamesR (Jan 22, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			In the world, we're reigning world club champions still.

It worked for Scotland in 1966, so why not?

Click to expand...

Marvellous


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The problem is Salah and Mane are knackered. He's played them every single bloody game for 3 years. Resting them for 30 mins here and there isn't enough. And when your wingers are not scoring you need your actual number 9 to pick up the slack - but Firmino has never been good enough in front of goal in my opinion. He's a nice team player and all the rest of it but he never scores enough goals. If Jota was fit I reckoned he'd be keeping Firmino on the bench by now. Other than him the back-up players are nowhere near good enough. Shaqiri and Origi are half decent mid-table players and no more than that.
		
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Totally agree.
Firmino is not a good finisher.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

Plenty of Kneejerk and bedwetting reactions after last night on SM I see. 

Yes there's issues, it's ball breaking watching them do the same thing time after time all through 5 games. The last 5 games have been a carbon copy of each other. 

6pts behind isn't very much as we've seen this season, few wins and you're back in the mix.

It's times like this is when the weakness of the squad bites you on the backside. Selling to buy doesn't work.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			And just for a laugh, I had a look at the comments on the Liverpool facebook page. My favourite...!

View attachment 34621

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This takes "bantz" to a new level.


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## Orikoru (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Plenty of Kneejerk and bedwetting reactions after last night on SM I see.

Yes there's issues, it's ball breaking watching them do the same thing time after time all through 5 games. The last 5 games have been a carbon copy of each other.

6pts behind isn't very much as we've seen this season, few wins and you're back in the mix.

It's times like this is when the weakness of the squad bites you on the backside. Selling to buy doesn't work.
		
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Certainly not writing them off, they just look tired in attack, while City are in form and must be favourites now. People always say it's difficult to defend a title - to maintain the same levels and hunger, I can understand it's difficult. 

Talking about games repeating themselves, I've had the same experience watching Spurs. Our issue is trying to sit on a 1-0 lead rather than getting a second that would actually make it comfortable though.


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2021)

Junior said:



			You're still creating chances.....This is typical Liverpool, give the rest of us a glimmer of hope then will prob go unbeaten for the rest of the season , win the league and remain unbearable 

Click to expand...


The difference for me is slightly semantics but Id say they are taking lots of shots, not necessarily creating good chances.

If you look at xG last night and take out the Origi chance, the rest of the shots were 20/1 chances and thats been similar in recent games (compared to the Palace game where they scored pretty much every chance)


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2021)

Matt Ryan on loan as back up keeper seems a decent option to allow Runarsson out on loan to get some much needed game time


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## Orikoru (Jan 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			Matt Ryan on loan as back up keeper seems a decent option to allow Runarsson out on loan to get some much needed game time
		
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Always thought Ryan was a good keeper. I was surprised he lost his place at Brighton, but supposedly he's been off form this year.


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Always thought Ryan was a good keeper. I was surprised he lost his place at Brighton, but supposedly he's been off form this year.
		
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Had a bad start to the season and gone from one of their best players to not in the squad. One things for sure Id rather have him than Runarsson in the nets if Leno gets injured. Hopefully a new challenge will get him going again


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Certainly not writing them off, they just look tired in attack, while City are in form and must be favourites now. People always say it's difficult to defend a title - to maintain the same levels and hunger, I can understand it's difficult.

Talking about games repeating themselves, I've had the same experience watching Spurs. Our issue is trying to sit on a 1-0 lead rather than getting a second that would actually make it comfortable though.
		
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Yes they do look tired, they’ve been at it for 3 seasons. They’re not machines. 

We all know retaining a title is the most difficult thing to do, its been seen many times and will continue to. I wouldn’t question their hunger or effort.

We’ve been dealt a huge blow losing our only 3 experienced CB‘s for large parts of the season. The fullbacks now have to be more defensive minded, the midfield is weaker and the strikers are out of form. The whole dynamic of the team is weakened. 

Like I said earlier, not improving the squad in previous summers has cost us and selling to buy is proving its not a sustainable model.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			The difference for me is slightly semantics but Id say they are taking lots of shots, not necessarily creating good chances.

If you look at xG last night and take out the Origi chance, the rest of the shots were 20/1 chances and thats been similar in recent games (compared to the Palace game where they scored pretty much every chance)
		
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In recent games we’ve not been shooting enough, favouring another pass or cross into the box.

The way to beat that low block is to pass quickly and move the ball around/in between the lines. Get the teams turned around and going back to their goal. Playing it in front of them suits them. Our passing and moving is and has been too slow and generally piss poor.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Plenty of Kneejerk and bedwetting reactions after last night on SM I see.

Yes there's issues, it's ball breaking watching them do the same thing time after time all through 5 games. The last 5 games have been a carbon copy of each other.

6pts behind isn't very much as we've seen this season, few wins and you're back in the mix.

It's times like this is when the weakness of the squad bites you on the backside. Selling to buy doesn't work.
		
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Just to cheer you up Stu, looks like KDB is missing for the Liverpool and Spurs game 🤬


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Just to cheer you up Stu, looks like KDB is missing for the Liverpool and Spurs game 🤬
		
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The city game is miles away from my thoughts Tashy. 

Doesn't matter though, you'll be bringing another £50m world class player into replace him.


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## Piece (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			In recent games we’ve not been shooting enough, favouring another pass or cross into the box.

The way to beat that low block is to pass quickly and move the ball around/in between the lines. Get the teams turned around and going back to their goal. Playing it in front of them suits them. Our passing and moving is and has been too slow and generally piss poor.
		
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That's exactly right. I look at Liverpool now and considering their injury list, they are still playing well. It's the decision making in the final third that costs them. It used to be natural and second nature, but currently it's like City when they were struggling - too many touches, not enough one-touch. Klopp said as much post-match. I don't think you can blame tiredness - it's confidence in my eyes. Get the natural flow back and it will they will be right back at it.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The city game is miles away from my thoughts Tashy.

Doesn't matter though, you'll be bringing another £50m world class player into replace him.
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

could be an idea for Klopp


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## PieMan (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We all know retaining a title is the most difficult thing to do, its been seen many times and will continue to.
		
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🙏🤞🙏🤞 Liverpool won't be trying to retain a title again for a very long time. You and LiverpoolPhil have put us through enough.........😉😉😂😂


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## Orikoru (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes they do look tired, they’ve been at it for 3 seasons. They’re not machines.

We all know retaining a title is the most difficult thing to do, its been seen many times and will continue to. I wouldn’t question their hunger or effort.

We’ve been dealt a huge blow losing our only 3 experienced CB‘s for large parts of the season. The fullbacks now have to be more defensive minded, the midfield is weaker and the strikers are out of form. The whole dynamic of the team is weakened.

Like I said earlier, not improving the squad in previous summers has cost us and selling to buy is proving its not a sustainable model.
		
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Yeah, I'd agree it comes down to squad management. Everyone could see you didn't have enough centre back cover. And the front three are tired because Klopp overplayed them - due to lack of decent back-ups. You did bring in Jota and you've been unlucky with his injury as he started well. But these things need to be planned for. City for example clearly had the same issue with lack of centre backs, but this season they bring in Dias and they're solid again.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I'd agree it comes down to squad management. Everyone could see you didn't have enough centre back cover. And the front three are tired because Klopp overplayed them - due to lack of decent back-ups. You did bring in Jota and you've been unlucky with his injury as he started well. But these things need to be planned for. City for example clearly had the same issue with lack of centre backs, but this season they bring in Dias and they're solid again.
		
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He's been let down by the people above him, for 2 or 3 seasons now. I refer back to my comment. 

Selling to buy is not sustainable.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

PieMan said:



			🙏🤞🙏🤞 Liverpool won't be trying to retain a title again for a very long time. You and LiverpoolPhil have put us through enough.........😉😉😂😂
		
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Your problems are bigger than me and LP😁


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## nickjdavis (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Get the teams turned around and going back to their goal. .
		
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But you cant do that when teams are already sat in deep and there is no space behind.

Maybe relaxing the constant "press" could open up a bit of freedom for the opposition to play a bit, lull them into a bit of adventure and that might create the space required.

Still....I'm just disappointed that Burnley's victory now makes Newcastle's draw the other week look like a mediocre result!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He's been let down by the people above him, for 2 or 3 seasons now. I refer back to my comment.

Selling to buy is not sustainable.
		
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That’s not fair Stu 

Every club has to work with a budget - our recruitment has been outstanding, we don’t have bundles of money to spend and nothing has changed. Players have been bought when the manager needs them and it’s not a “sell to buy” - if a player wants to go then he is replaced. Even more so when the club works under a self sustaining model. Klopp hasn’t been let down by the owners .


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He's been let down by the people above him, for 2 or 3 seasons now. I refer back to my comment.

Selling to buy is not sustainable.
		
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and you think youve got problems lol, wait until you have to pay players to get rid of them


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 22, 2021)




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## funkycoldmedina (Jan 22, 2021)




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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s not fair Stu

Every club has to work with a budget - our recruitment has been outstanding, we don’t have bundles of money to spend and nothing has changed. Players have been bought when the manager needs them and it’s not a “sell to buy” - if a player wants to go then he is replaced. Even more so when the club works under a self sustaining model. Klopp hasn’t been let down by the owners .
		
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It is fair Phil.

Our recruitment has been outstanding but we also went 3or4 windows without improving that squad. We won the European Cup then never strengthed. Everyone else did. That is were he has been let down.

Its blatantly obvious to every man and his dog we need at least 1 CB, to replace Lovren. Since November we’ve needed 2 CB’s. not wanted. Needed. No arguments.

By the sounds of it we‘re not bringing in a CB this window neither.

*Direct quote from today’s presser.

Klopp on transfers (again suggesting a frustration)

"Of course somebody else is making the decisions - it was always like this and I cannot change that. I make recommendations, but I cannot spend the money."


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			and you think youve got problems lol, wait until you have to pay players to get rid of them 

Click to expand...

No chance of that happening with this lot.😀


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It is fair Phil.

Our recruitment has been outstanding but we also went 3or4 windows without improving that squad. We won the European Cup then never strengthed. Everyone else did. That is were he has been let down.

Its blatantly obvious to every man and his dog we need at least 1 CB, to replace Lovren. Since November we’ve needed 2 CB’s. not wanted. Needed. No arguments.

By the sounds of it we‘re not bringing in a CB this window neither.

*Direct quote from today’s presser.

Klopp on transfers (again suggesting a frustration)

"Of course somebody else is making the decisions - it was always like this and I cannot change that. I make recommendations, but I cannot spend the money."
		
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We won the European Cup and then went onto the win the league 🤷‍♂️ - when did we go 4 Windows without improving the squad ? The club have signed a player in pretty every window bar this one sad 

We won the league and then spent money on Jota , Thiago and Tskimakas 

Which CB’s should we look to buy as there is clearly lots of them hanging around that we could just go and get ? We not city or Chelsea to be able to have these £50mil players sitting there waiting to come in 

The club is losing millions each week because of the lockdown , works on a self sufficient model - we don’t have fortunately hanging around to spend - if there is someone there to bring in then they well 

And we know that Klopp doesn’t buy the players - that’s Edwards and been that way since day 1 

We are in a bit of rut , injuries have played a huge part in the season so far and still not out of it. We are not a sell to buy club and its not fair to suggest that - we are self sufficient - the club spends money it makes , no player has been sold just so that someone else can be bought


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We won the European Cup and then went onto the win the league 🤷‍♂️ - when did we go 4 Windows without improving the squad ? The club have signed a player in pretty every window bar this one sad

We won the league and then spent money on Jota , Thiago and Tskimakas

Which CB’s should we look to buy as there is clearly lots of them hanging around that we could just go and get ? We not city or Chelsea to be able to have these £50mil players sitting there waiting to come in

The club is losing millions each week because of the lockdown , works on a self sufficient model - we don’t have fortunately hanging around to spend - if there is someone there to bring in then they well

And we know that Klopp doesn’t buy the players - that’s Edwards and been that way since day 1

We are in a bit of rut , injuries have played a huge part in the season so far and still not out of it. *We are not a sell to buy club and its not fair to suggest that* - we are self sufficient - the club spends money it makes , *no player has been sold just so that someone else can be bought*

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We won the CL and improved the squad with who?

if what you say is correct, if Coutinho isn’t sold, where does the money come from for the signings we made?

By the time we’ve won the league, we’ve got a squad with no real cover for 4 positions. Full backs, CB’s, front 3. Yet they’ve been flogged to death week in week out.  That squad should be in a better position than what it is today. We can’t just keep relying on just coaching.

*If we’re not a sell to buy club, where’s the real investment then Phillip because any club who wants top players can’t just rely on what the club brings in. Every club needs investment from its owners, especially times like now.*

This squad has been fantastic over 2/3 seasons, but it shouldn’t be in the position it is today.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We won the CL and improved the squad with who?

if what you say is correct, if Coutinho isn’t sold, where does the money come from for the signings we made?

By the time we’ve won the league, we’ve got a squad with no real cover for 4 positions. Full backs, CB’s, front 3. Yet they’ve been flogged to death week in week out.  That squad should be in a better position than what it is today. We can’t just keep relying on just coaching.

*If we’re not a sell to buy club, where’s the real investment then Phillip because any club who wants top players can’t just rely on what the club brings in. Every club needs investment from its owners, especially times like now.*

This squad has been fantastic over 2/3 seasons, but it shouldn’t be in the position it is today.
		
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Do you have you sign players to improve over one season?

We won the EC and the squad was clearly good enough to then go on breaking records as they won the Prem League ? They brought in Minamino, and a few youngsters 

They had already said that VVD arriving wasn’t depending on Coutinho leaving - he left on his choice so the club used that money to bring in other players

Self sufficient- using money earned to spend , the owners aren’t going to buy players from their own personal pockets - we have known that since they arrived just as the manager has known that - it allows the club to stand on its own two feet , not rely on bank debt or be stood up by oil Billionares 

We have a squad with 4 full backs , 6 players for the front three , multiple centre mids and 3 CB’s - you can’t plan for having your main two CBs out injured then also your main Centre mid signing out injured then the guy you brought in to support the front three out injured as well. 

There is no doubt that the funds available in the summer were affected by lockdown and we still will be because of the drop in income


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you have you sign players to improve over one season?



			Yes
		
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We won the EC and the squad was clearly good enough to then go on breaking records as they won the Prem League ? They brought in Minamino, and a few youngsters



			No it wasn’t clearly good enough and you know very well it wasn’t. We broke records because we stuck with the same 11/core of players week in week out. you can’t keep relying on youngsters. Every season you’ve got to keep adding at least 1 top player. All the great sides of the past have done.
		
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They had already said that VVD arriving wasn’t depending on Coutinho leaving - he left on his choice so the club used that money to bring in other players

Self sufficient- using money earned to spend , the owners aren’t going to buy players from their own personal pockets - we have known that since they arrived just as the manager has known that - it allows the club to stand on its own two feet , not rely on bank debt or be stood up by oil Billionares 

We have a squad with 4 full backs , 6 players for the front three , multiple centre mids and 3 CB’s - you can’t plan for having your main two CBs out injured then also your main Centre mid signing out injured then the guy you brought in to support the front three out injured as well.




			we had 1 and 34yr midfielder as cover for the previous 3 seasons.  3 front 3 players who just aren’t good enough to be able to rest the other 3 for any long period of time. We‘ve had 2 back up CB’s for 3 seasons, 1 not good enough and 1 who misses more games than he’s fit for.
		
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There is no doubt that the funds available in the summer were affected by lockdown and we still will be because of the drop in income
		
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We should not be struggling financially when the club was bought for a song and is worth well over £1bn quid.

We've had this argument many times over re the owners, I won’t change my opinion.

1 thing you cannot defend is the fact that 20 days into a transfer window and we’re nowhere near signing 2CB’s thats badly needed.

If the club haven’t got the funds then something is seriously wrong. At least 1 CB is the minimum require,ent over the next week.


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## Kellfire (Jan 22, 2021)




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## ColchesterFC (Jan 22, 2021)




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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We should not be struggling financially when the club was bought for a song and is worth well over £1bn quid.

We've had this argument many times over re the owners, I won’t change my opinion.

1 thing you cannot defend is the fact that 20 days into a transfer window and we’re nowhere near signing 2CB’s thats badly needed.

If the club haven’t got the funds then something is seriously wrong. At least 1 CB is the minimum require,ent over the next week.
		
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However you dress it up Stu, Liverpool for a season and a bit were untouchable. But if you play the same way every week, week after week. Teams suss out that style of play. And even if it just means taking a point from you that’s a succes. When a team has reached a pinnacle like Liverpool did, it needs to find that extra something else to take it to another level to play a differant way. Massive injuries have taken Liverpool in the wrong direction through no fault of there own. It remains to be seen if Liverpool can find the money and player/s to help Liverpool kick on


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			However you dress it up Stu, Liverpool for a season and a bit were untouchable. But if you play the same way every week, week after week. Teams suss out that style of play. And even if it just means taking a point from you that’s a succes. When a team has reached a pinnacle like Liverpool did, it needs to find that extra something else to take it to another level to play a differant way. Massive injuries have taken Liverpool in the wrong direction through no fault of there own. It remains to be seen if Liverpool can find the money and player/s to help Liverpool kick on
		
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Look I understand and appreciate what this squad has given us over the last 3 seasons but every successful side evolves and you have to keep adding and strengthening to keep ahead.

THe biggest issue is that best 11 has pretty much played for 2-3seasons, they’re not machines. 

I agree we’ve been hammered by injuries but they could’ve/should’ve been managed better by better investment in the squad over the last few seasons.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Look I understand and appreciate what this squad has given us over the last 3 seasons but every successful side evolves and you have to keep adding and strengthening to keep ahead.

THe biggest issue is that best 11 has pretty much played for 2-3seasons, they’re not machines.

I agree we’ve been hammered by injuries but they could’ve/should’ve been managed better by better investment in the squad over the last few seasons.
		
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Looking at this season, I was worried that City were not  gonna finish in the top four a couple of months ago. This season has been a stonker. Ave a feeling that Leicester will finish in the top four. Which is gonna put someone’s nose out for a champs league next season. Spurs and Everton Could upset that top four even more. 
As Fergie once said “ it’s squeaky bum time”. Its Started a bit early this year for the title and top four 👍


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## sunshine (Jan 22, 2021)

With De Bruyne and Vardy out for the next few weeks that's a huge blow. Both teams were building momentum. Great news for the other top four challengers.

Also annoying that I played my FPL wildcard last week and now have to sell both players


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## sunshine (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Our recruitment has been outstanding but we also went 3or4 windows without improving that squad. We won the European Cup then never strengthed.
		
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I didn't want to wade into this discussion, but you seem to have forgotten that Liverpool have signed Alcantara and Jota which are major signings by any standard. Also Minamino and Adrian who I think is a decent reserve keeper and strengthens the squad.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I didn't want to wade into this discussion, but you seem to have forgotten that Liverpool have signed Alcantara and Jota which are major signings by any standard. Also Minamino and Adrian who I think is a decent reserve keeper and strengthens the squad.
		
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I haven't. My point was from Kiev  up until we won the league we'd pretty much had the same squad of players for 2-3yrs and it was pretty much the same team week in week out.

They're physically knackered. People may say we'll you've got Origi/Shaqiri/Ox etc but they're not good enough. That's my point.


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I haven't. My point was from Kiev  up until we won the league we'd pretty much had the same squad of players for 2-3yrs and it was pretty much the same team week in week out.

They're physically knackered. People may say we'll you've got Origi/Shaqiri/Ox etc but they're not good enough. That's my point.
		
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but the majority of Liverpool fans been telling us we sold you a world beater in the Ox for the last few years


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			but the majority of Liverpool fans been telling us we sold you a world beater in the Ox for the last few years 

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Unfortunately he's been very unlucky with Injuries. I like Ox but he’s made of glass. He had a run of games for us where he was excellent then he got injured.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Unfortunately he's been very unlucky with Injuries. I like Ox but he’s made of glass. He had a run of games for us where he was excellent then he got injured.
		
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Good player but hasn’t he always been made of glass?


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2021)

Fair play to Saints, got what they deserved by picking their best side

We just look toothless when 2 or 3 are missing (or even more toothless i should say)


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## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2021)

Flippin eck, that header was save of the season 😳😁


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## USER1999 (Jan 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			Fair play to Saints, got what they deserved by picking their best side

We just look toothless when 2 or 3 are missing (or even more toothless i should say)
		
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It's not just certain players not being good enough, it's the whole pace of play. Every player seems to need an extra touch. The opponents have so much time to regroup. I was watching it, and so many times an early pass would have left Southampton flat footed, but it didn't come.
Add to that a real B team vibe, and Arsenal got exactly what they deserved. Without Leno it would have been a bigger margin.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2021)

😂😂. Come on Cheltenham


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## Jensen (Jan 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂. Come on Cheltenham
		
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Imagine your eyes are dry now Leighton Buzzard Phil 😄👍


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## Slime (Jan 23, 2021)

Such a shame. 
They lived the dream for eighty minutes but can now go home with heads held high.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2021)

Slime said:



			Such a shame.
They lived the dream for eighty minutes but can now go home with heads held high.
		
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You know what,I had me excuses typed out 10 mins before the end. Along the lines of Liverpool v Burnley or Cheltenham v City. The “lesser” teams have there game plan and sometimes it works. For 80 mins it worked. One thing let cheltenham down. Fitness. 

will have to see how the lesser team Liverpool do tomorrow 😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Imagine your eyes are dry now Leighton Buzzard Phil 😄👍
		
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Not at all - unfortunately it was Bath and story time so didn’t watch the end , Cheltenham going 1 up was great to see 🙄


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## JamesR (Jan 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			You know what,I had me excuses typed out 10 mins before the end. Along the lines of Liverpool v *Burnley* or Cheltenham v City. The “*lesser*” *teams* have there game plan and sometimes it works. For 80 mins it worked. One thing let cheltenham down. Fitness.

will have to see how the lesser team Liverpool do tomorrow 😉
		
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Ahem, excuse me... I think you mean founding team, redolent of former glories


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## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Ahem, excuse me... I think you mean founding team, redolent of former glories
		
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One can only apologise, could be Liverpools best chance of European football next year.

Joking aside, how comes you follow the clarets  when you live in Derby. Thoughts on the new owners 👍


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## JamesR (Jan 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			One can only apologise, could be Liverpools best chance of European football next year.

Joking aside, how comes you follow the clarets  when you live in Derby. Thoughts on the new owners 👍
		
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My Dad’s from a village close to Burnley, so have always followed both

If it brings in cash, without tearing the sole out of the club new ownership is great, potentially for both clubs.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2021)

JamesR said:



			My Dad’s from a village close to Burnley, so have always followed both

If it brings in cash, without tearing the sole out of the club new ownership is great, potentially for both clubs.
		
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Have an auntie who lives in Clitheroe, she took me to a fantastic pub there ( Bowland beer hall at Holmes Mill) one of the best Ave been to. Talking to a pal of mine who follows the Clarets with his wife. She’s from Burnley way. They sup in there regularly before games.


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## JamesR (Jan 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Have an auntie who lives in Clitheroe, she took me to a fantastic pub there ( Bowland beer hall at Holmes Mill) one of the best Ave been to. Talking to a pal of mine who follows the Clarets with his wife. She’s from Burnley way. They sup in there regularly before games.
		
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My Dad’s from Trawden, nr Colne.
It’s virtually on the Yorkshire border, so he had a very strong accent, now tempered by over 50 years in Derby. But still slips when he talks to his sister.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not at all - unfortunately it was Bath and story time so didn’t watch the end , Cheltenham going 1 up was great to see 🙄
		
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Not as good as seeing Burnley go 1 up other night 😊


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## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2021)

Another VAR feck up at Villa Park tonight.

How isn't that 1st goal offside tonight? An absolute joke


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 23, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Another VAR feck up at Villa Park tonight.

How isn't that 1st goal offside tonight? An absolute joke
		
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Same as the Man City goal v Villa the other night. The defender deliberately played the ball which puts the attacker back onside. I'm not saying it's right, just that's what the rule is.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Same as the Man City goal v Villa the other night. The defender deliberately played the ball which puts the attacker back onside. I'm not saying it's right, just that's what the rule is.
		
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Nothing like it. The defender HAS to play that ball, if he leaves that and he's not offside imagine the uproar.  Ludicrous.

The  defender doesn't know he's offside, that's the lino's job.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 23, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Nothing like it. The defender HAS to play that ball, if he leaves that and he's not offside imagine the uproar.  Ludicrous.

The  defender doesn't know he's offside, that's the lino's job.
		
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I agree. It’s a shambles.
I can kind of understand stand the rule of not calling offside on 50’50 decisions so as to not take the chance of a goal away from a team. But to not call a player offside when they blatantly are is rubbish.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree. It’s a shambles.
I can kind of understand stand the rule of not calling offside on 50’50 decisions so as to not take the chance of a goal away from a team. But to not call a player offside when they blatantly are is rubbish.
		
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In real time its a tight call but with VAR that has to be chalked off. 

When you look back at goals being chalked off for toes and armpits being offside and that is allowed to stand its a travesty.

Too many variations of the offside rule has caused this.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 23, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Nothing like it. The defender HAS to play that ball, if he leaves that and he's not offside imagine the uproar.  Ludicrous.

The  defender doesn't know he's offside, that's the lino's job.
		
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Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and Papas that Watkins was offside. It was the commentator that explained the decision as I did above as to the reason that VAR didn't even look at it. Apparently the law as it stands means that Watkins wasn't offside.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and Papas that Watkins was offside. It was the commentator that explained the decision as I did above as to the reason that VAR didn't even look at it. Apparently the law as it stands means that Watkins wasn't offside.
		
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I get yer, it's just an absolute joke. 

The defender sees that Watkins is behind him, he can probably feel him and only makes that challenge because he knows he's there. Surely that situation is covered within the different rules of offside.

I'm fuming and it's nothing to do with me. 
Pathetic.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I get yer, it's just an absolute joke.

The defender sees that Watkins is behind him, he can probably feel him and only makes that challenge because he knows he's there. Surely that situation is covered within the different rules of offside.

I'm fuming and it's nothing to do with me.
Pathetic.
100%
Ridiculous rule
		
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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2021)

This offside rule isn’t new, the fact it happens so infrequently I believe leads to the frustration of the fans.

They’ve tweaked and messed with the Offside and other rules over the years and it’s never going to be a 100%.

The players need to take more responsibility imo rather than moaning about something they should but don’t know about.

Sadly, the only player I’ve had sympathy with was Lovren when his his miss-hit against Spurs was deemed deliberate.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			This offside rule isn’t new, the fact it happens so infrequently I believe leads to the frustration of the fans.

They’ve tweaked and messed with the Offside and other rules over the years and it’s never going to be a 100%.

*The players need to take more responsibility imo rather than moaning about something they should but don’t know about.*

Sadly, the only player I’ve had sympathy with was Lovren when his his miss-hit against Spurs was deemed deliberate.
		
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I think the Newcastle defender took responsibility yesterday. He only made that clearance because he knew Watkins was right behind him.

Everything you're taught as a young lad playing football he done right bar the clearance could've been better.  

We might aswell get rid of offside, it'll be easier.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I think the Newcastle defender took responsibility yesterday. He only made that clearance because he knew Watkins was right behind him.

Everything you're taught as a young lad playing football he done right bar the clearance could've been better. 

We might aswell get rid of offside, it'll be easier.
		
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The last change, not tweak to the offside law was over 10-15yrs ago, players have had more than enough time to know them, most were young lads.

I agree the Offside Laws aren’t 100%, but I doubt they ever will or could be.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The last change, not tweak to the offside law was over 10-15yrs ago, players have had more than enough time to know them, most were young lads.

I agree the Offside Laws aren’t 100%, but I doubt they ever will or could be.
		
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It's down to interpretation of the rules and we've seen on many occasions how refs interpretate rules differently. 

That one last night was ludicrous.


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## chrisd (Jan 24, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Actually the offside laws were extremely clear in the past, maybe 80s?  

If someone was offside, they were offside, didn't matter if they were lying in a crumpled heap 50 yards away from the play, they were offside and it was black and white.

Then the "is he interfering with play?" discussions came in so the crumpled mess would be ignored, then it became "active or inactive", then they brought in various phases so you could be inactive in phase 1 so that then you can join in again, and finally we arrived at this mess we're in now.

Apart from someone on the floor with his leg hanging off, if any player offside was flagged, it would eradicate all the issues.   They've tried to evolve it but it hasn't really worked.
		
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Yep, for all my playing days someone was always offside or not and as the quote says " if he isn't interfering with play then he shouldn't be playing" . Yes, sometimes someone on the field was clearly not anywhere near the action but the flag would go up, annoying, but only against the person who was offside. I also cannot understand the allowing play to continue when someone is clearly offside and then taking the action back, the referees assistant should just be there to decide on throw ins!


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## anotherdouble (Jan 24, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Yep, for all my playing days someone was always offside or not and as the quote says " if he isn't interfering with play then he shouldn't be playing" . Yes, sometimes someone on the field was clearly not anywhere near the action but the flag would go up, annoying, but only against the person who was offside. I also cannot understand the allowing play to continue when someone is clearly offside and then taking the action back, *the referees assistant should just be there to decide on throw ins*!
		
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And even in the championship games I have seen and a couple of cup games recently they don’t even do that if it’s a close call. They wait for the ref to point and then they raise their flag.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Actually the offside laws were extremely clear in the past, maybe 80s? 

If someone was offside, they were offside, didn't matter if they were lying in a crumpled heap 50 yards away from the play, they were offside and it was black and white.

Then the "is he interfering with play?" discussions came in so the crumpled mess would be ignored, then it became "active or inactive", then they brought in various phases so you could be inactive in phase 1 so that then you can join in again, and finally we arrived at this mess we're in now.

Apart from someone on the floor with his leg hanging off, if any player offside was flagged, it would eradicate all the issues.   They've tried to evolve it but it hasn't really worked.
		
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Sorry mate, you’re looking at this through rose tinted glasses, the first issue I can remember with Offside was early to mid 70’s when Leeds v West Brom ( I think) and a player ran from his own half with the ball while one of his team mates was stood clearly offside in the opposition half.

The defence stopped and the player with the ball ran on and scored, this then led to all sorts of complaints, discussions etc.

The biggest issue has been the tweak whether “level” is onside or not.

Edit: Here it is 1971


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## nickjdavis (Jan 24, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and Papas that Watkins was offside. It was the commentator that explained the decision as I did above as to the reason that VAR didn't even look at it. Apparently the law as it stands means that Watkins wasn't offside.
		
Click to expand...

I was wondering what would happen with the Watkins goal that WAS given offside later in the first half, if the ball played through had actually come off the outstretched toe of a defender who was trying to prevent the through ball....from my understanding of the letter of the law then the goal would have stood in that instance.

Football just isn't the same game any more.


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## Piece (Jan 24, 2021)

I don’t follow the issue about the Watkins goal. When the ball was crossed in from the flank he, Watkins, was level or behind the ball? The fact that Schar touches it, doesn’t matter. Am I missing something?? Have I got the right incident?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2021)

Piece said:



			I don’t follow the issue about the Watkins goal. *When the ball was crossed in from the flank he, Watkins, was level or behind the ball?* The fact that Schar touches it, doesn’t matter. Am I missing something?? Have I got the right incident?
		
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He was ahead of Schar on my TV


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## anotherdouble (Jan 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He was ahead of Schar on my TV
		
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Put it on a flat wall fam, you will get a proper view😂


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2021)

anotherdouble said:



			Put it on a flat wall fam, you will get a proper view😂
		
Click to expand...

It already is, though I did have 12 bottles of Asahi when I seen it  🤦


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## anotherdouble (Jan 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It already is, though I did have 12 bottles of Asahi when I seen it  🤦
		
Click to expand...

No wonder he looked offside 😂


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It already is, though I did have 12 bottles of Asahi when I seen it  🤦
		
Click to expand...

Judging by some of the decisions being made this season it seems as though they are doing the same at Stockley Park.


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## Imurg (Jan 24, 2021)

Just do away with offside....job done.


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## fundy (Jan 24, 2021)

For those complaining about bad decisions you want to see the penalty Middlesboro didnt get this pm lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353363462517387264


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## Piece (Jan 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			For those complaining about bad decisions you want to see the penalty Middlesboro didnt get this pm lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353363462517387264

Click to expand...

Jeez. That’s a pen all day. Colin W won’t like that 🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			For those complaining about bad decisions you want to see the penalty Middlesboro didnt get this pm lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353363462517387264

Click to expand...

That is mental ! How is that not a penalty - unless the ref didn’t see it ?


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## fundy (Jan 24, 2021)

5.8 for van der beek


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			5.8 for van der beek
		
Click to expand...

I think you're being generous. I was struggling to give him above 4 for that effort.


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## Slime (Jan 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			5.8 for van der beek
		
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Yeah, that was a bit embarrasing/pathetic.
It should have been a 4, but the scream was pretty good, hence the 5.8.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			5.8 for van der beek
		
Click to expand...

Extra points for the deafening howling scream ?


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## fundy (Jan 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Extra points for the deafening howling scream ?
		
Click to expand...

the scream always earns extra


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## Piece (Jan 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			the scream always earns extra 

Click to expand...

It’s the rolling around whilst having an eye on the ref that earns the top marks... 😆


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## Slime (Jan 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			the scream always earns extra 

Click to expand...

I wonder whether teams have 10 minutes of the training sessions put aside for screaming.
That'd be an interesting watch.


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## fundy (Jan 24, 2021)

Piece said:



			It’s the rolling around whilst having an eye on the ref that earns the top marks... 😆
		
Click to expand...


followed by the sheepish getting up, pretending to hold the ankle then running away fine


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## pendodave (Jan 24, 2021)

Feel a but dirty saying this, but I'm really enjoying this game.
Can't believe they're both trying this hard with certain defeat facing them in the next round...


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## Slime (Jan 24, 2021)

That could have been a red card, I've seen them given.


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## Slime (Jan 24, 2021)

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			That could have been a red card, I've seen them given.
		
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Never - it’s a foul at most 


Slime said:



			Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
		
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surprised you have mentioned the free kick that was “won” - joke of a decision


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## Dando (Jan 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Never - it’s a foul at most 

surprised you have mentioned the free kick that was “won” - joke of a decision
		
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He “felt contact” and was “entitled to go down”


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2021)

Remember when we were told Bruno wasn’t all that,because other top teams weren’t in for him 😂


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## Slime (Jan 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			surprised you have mentioned the free kick that was “won” - joke of a decision
		
Click to expand...

Admit it though, that was a great strike.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			Admit it though, that was a great strike.
		
Click to expand...

It was a great strike - doesn’t ignore the point that it shouldn’t have been a free kick in the first place.


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## Kellfire (Jan 24, 2021)

Think Williams has shown why Klopp doesn’t pick him ahead of Fabinho in defence.


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## fundy (Jan 24, 2021)

Bruno Fernandes cost 2/3rds of a Pepe. Let that sink in....


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## Kellfire (Jan 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a great strike - doesn’t ignore the point that it shouldn’t have been a free kick in the first place.
		
Click to expand...

Have a word, mate. Fabinho’s knee goes straight into the back of Cavani’s leg.


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## Slime (Jan 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a great strike - doesn’t ignore the point that it shouldn’t have been a free kick in the first place.
		
Click to expand...

Just seen a replay. 
Defender went through the back of him. 
Definite foul.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 24, 2021)

Good open game to watch fine to see to teams with some excellent goals. 

And after seeing the replay it was a foul on Cavani.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2021)

One for the UTD fans 😂


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			Just seen a replay.
Defender went through the back of him.
Definite foul.
		
Click to expand...

Try watching it again wearing a pair of these.....




Although I think the tint on LP's pair is a bit darker.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 24, 2021)

It’s very quiet on here. Good game for the neutral.


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## Captainron (Jan 24, 2021)

The FA Cup isn’t a deal breaker for these clubs. It’s not that important.


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## Reemul (Jan 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			The FA Cup isn’t a deal breaker for these clubs. It’s not that important.
		
Click to expand...

Losing to Manure is though.

Definite free kick. Through the back, stupid challege, blame the defender not the glasses.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			The FA Cup isn’t a deal breaker for these clubs. It’s not that important.
		
Click to expand...

Probably more important for Man U in terms of Ole trying to get that first trophy win under his belt.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That is mental ! How is that not a penalty - unless the ref didn’t see it ?
		
Click to expand...

The ref is supposed to follow the ball.
I really can’t see how he didn’t see it?
He gave a goal kick so must have seen the striker head it.
What’s the Lino doing to help him.
No excuse for me that’s really poor.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 24, 2021)

Reemul said:



			Losing to Manure is though.

Definite free kick. Through the back, stupid challege, blame the defender not the glasses.
		
Click to expand...

I agree having a midfielder in defence will lead to silly challenges like this.
He does catch him but he was already going down.
It’s a challenge VVD or quality CB would not make and stay on his feet , he’s back to goal just jockey him.
Two individual errors cost us the game.
Where is Matip is he injured again.?

Subs changed the game ours did nothing ,MUs won them it.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Think Williams has shown why Klopp doesn’t pick him ahead of Fabinho in defence.
		
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Through no fault of his own, He shouldn't be nowhere near that squad unfortunately.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree having a midfielder in defence will lead to silly challenges like this.
He does catch him but he was already going down.
It’s a challenge VVD or quality CB would not make and stay on his feet , he’s back to goal just jockey him.
Two individual errors cost us the game.
*Where is Matip is he injured again.?*

Subs changed the game ours did nothing ,MUs won them it.
		
Click to expand...

No he's being rested as he's  only just comeback from injury and there's no way he could play 3x 90mins in 7 days. He'll be back for Spurs game Thursday.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			No he's being rested as he's  only just comeback from injury and there's no way he could play 3x 90mins in 7 days. He'll be back for Spurs game Thursday.
		
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Stu what’s the situation re injuries to players and expected returns. 👍


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			No he's being rested as he's  only just comeback from injury and there's no way he could play 3x 90mins in 7 days. He'll be back for Spurs game Thursday.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe the young lad should have played against Burnley and saved Matip for today.
Who would be a manager.
Our squad looks thin.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Stu what’s the situation re injuries to players and expected returns. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Theres been no confirmed expected date for both VVD and Gomez to return. Personally I think we see VVD back around April. Gomez few weeks behind Him.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe the young lad should have played against Burnley and saved Matip for today.
Who would be a manager.
Our squad looks thin.
		
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Only problem with that is less recovery time in between today and Thursday than Thursday-Thursday.

He needs to be wrapped up in cotton wool. This wouldn’t be an issue if we had proper cover for CB positions.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Only problem with that is less recovery time in between today and Thursday than Thursday-Thursday.

He needs to be wrapped up in cotton wool. This wouldn’t be an issue if we had proper cover for CB positions.
		
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He’s made of glass though and a CB was a must ,bit surprised we have no names in the frame..


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He’s made of glass though and a CB was a must ,bit surprised we have no names in the frame..
		
Click to expand...

It's absurd that we haven't added a CB to date In this window. After Gomez'  injury in November the recruitment team should've backed Klopp and got him a CB sorted. 

Klopp has given them names, they cant/won't back him.


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## fundy (Jan 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's absurd that we haven't added a CB to date In this window. After Gomez'  injury in November the recruitment team should've backed Klopp and got him a CB sorted.

Klopp has given them names, they cant/won't back him.
		
Click to expand...


luiz, sokratis, mustafi, chambers??? let us know ill see what i can do for you


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			luiz, sokratis, mustafi, chambers??? let us know ill see what i can do for you 

Click to expand...

We can't afford a loanee apparently 🤷‍♂️

As mad as it sounds, I'd take Sokratis right now if it means getting Fabinho in midfield.


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## fundy (Jan 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We can't afford a loanee apparently 🤷‍♂️

As mad as it sounds, I'd take Sokratis right now if it means getting Fabinho in midfield.
		
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im pretty sure you can have most of them for free


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## pauljames87 (Jan 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			im pretty sure you can have most of them for free 

Click to expand...

I thought sokarties had just been let go on a free anyways?


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## USER1999 (Jan 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I thought sokarties had just been let go on a free anyways?
		
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Yes, I think he has. To be fair to him, he can defend, he just can't play out, and that seems to be a requirement these days.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 25, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Yes, I think he has. To be fair to him, he can defend, he just can't play out, and that seems to be a requirement these days.
		
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As stu said with Liverpool's situation a body in defence to get fabinho in midfield would be just required


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353640432362782720
If true it’s not really a surprise with the history of Abramovich 

He did well last year but when so much money is spent during the summer the expectations increased hugely but with the season being the way it is I would have thought a little more paitence would be better


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## SteveW86 (Jan 25, 2021)

Tuchel in as the replacement?


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## Orikoru (Jan 25, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Tuchel in as the replacement?
		
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He's far and away the favourite in the odds. Maybe he'll be able to connect with Werner and Havertz a bit better and get them performing. 

In fairness I think it's a justified sacking. He did well last season but there were no real expectations or pressure on him, he was able to give the youngsters a chance. This season with big money spent they expect results. They're currently 11 points from top in 9th place with no games in hand. With their squad they should at least be firmly in the top 6.


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## Kellfire (Jan 25, 2021)

Definitely a fair sacking. He had no shape to his team and when they won it seemed like individual talent shining through in spite of him, not because of him. It was just too early for Lampard - he needs to find his style first because he couldn’t find it at Chelsea.


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## Yorkhacker (Jan 25, 2021)

Taking the job so soon in his managerial career was a mistake. Would have been better to stay at Derby for a couple more seasons and wait for a Premier league job with lower expectations. I don't believe he demanded the new players he got before the start of the season, but the fact is, he has failed to get the best out of them, and at Chelsea there is always a high price to be paid for 'failure'.


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## Piece (Jan 25, 2021)

Chelsea took a gamble on Lampard, especially as his record at Derby wasn't exactly brilliant. Chelsea have shown flashes but not consistent enough bearing in mind the money spent.

It's moot point whether he should have been given time. If its Man U, then he's staying. If it's Chelsea or Watford, he's gone.

Tuchel? 🤔


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## Orikoru (Jan 25, 2021)

Yorkhacker said:



			Taking the job so soon in his managerial career was a mistake. Would have been better to stay at Derby for a couple more seasons and wait for a Premier league job with lower expectations. I don't believe he demanded the new players he got before the start of the season, but the fact is, he has failed to get the best out of them, and at Chelsea there is always a high price to be paid for 'failure'.
		
Click to expand...

In fairness as a Chelsea legend he probably always wanted to manage them one day so if he'd have turned them down - who knows if he would ever get the opportunity again? Unfortunately the opportunity came a bit too early for him. But I get why he couldn't say no.


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## pendodave (Jan 25, 2021)

Oh dear, how sad, never mind...
If they go after the Moysiah, I'll not be happy though.


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## Orikoru (Jan 25, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Oh dear, how sad, never mind...
If they go after the Moysiah, I'll not be happy though.
		
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I don't think there's much danger of Moyes getting another good job in his career after he floundered at United.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think there's much danger of Moyes getting another good job in his career after he floundered at United.
		
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United was the poisoned chalice .. anyone following fergie was doomed the fail 

They needed prime Jose but sir Alex wouldn't allow it 

Moyes has proven he still knows his stuff even with rubbish owners and little transfer budget


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## Reemul (Jan 25, 2021)

I believe they used Lampard, they had lost Hazard and had a transfer ban, no decent manager wanted to touch that job so they took Lampard as filler with the thoughts we don't need to give me too much time, some one bigger will be along in 18 months or so and will take the job when we can buy again.


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## Orikoru (Jan 25, 2021)

Reemul said:



			I believe they used Lampard, they had lost Hazard and had a transfer ban, no decent manager wanted to touch that job so they took Lampard as filler with the thoughts we don't need to give me too much time, some one bigger will be along in 18 months or so and will take the job when we can buy again.
		
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I don't disagree with that at all. His only remit was to bring the youngsters through, but he achieved probably a better league position than they expected. In the back of their minds they probably always saw him as a one-year interim manager.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 25, 2021)

I was a sorry to hear  Lampard has been sacked but results have not been good and not being near a top 4 spot was his downfall. 

No surprise though given Chelsea’s record of sacking managers that have won things.


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## PieMan (Jan 25, 2021)

Did Frank take on the Chelsea job too early in his managerial career? Of course he did - he was nowhere near experienced enough. But - given what the club means to him, and what he means to the club (both hierarchy and supporters) it was impossible for him to turn down. I for one certainly don't blame him for doing so and was very excited at the prospect of his return. 

Last season he did incredibly well given the squad at his disposal and the fact his hands were tied on transfers. Most experienced managers would have been delighted with CL qualification and a cup final appearance. 

But with the players he brought in (ignore the money as there was plenty banked from Hazard and Morata) the pressure was very much on him to deliver. All looked to be going well when we hit top spot in December, but even the most realistic of us supporters could see there were still massive issues defensively to resolve. 

And at a club like Chelsea, where the expectations are high and the pressure to deliver silverware is probably the greatest on any PL manager, the performances since then have been very poor. Even the wins against West Ham and Fulham were very poor from a performance perspective (and I would argue that the cup wins against Morecambe and Luton were too). 

So whilst I'm disappointed he has been sacked, it was clear to me that he was struggling to figure out how to turn things around and get the best out of his players. I think therefore it was very much the right decision given the recent results and performances. And with Chelsea only being 5 points off the CL spaces a new man can come in, re-energise the squad, and raise morale. We have a good run of games now where 3 wins out of 4 are easily achievable. 

I hope Frank goes away, learns from the experience, gets another club soon where he can continue his development, and perhaps return to the club when he's a touch older, a lot wiser, and when the time is more right for him.


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## Reemul (Jan 25, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Did Frank take on the Chelsea job too early in his managerial career? Of course he did - he was nowhere near experienced enough. But - given what the club means to him, and what he means to the club (both hierarchy and supporters) it was impossible for him to turn down. I for one certainly don't blame him for doing so and was very excited at the prospect of his return.

Last season he did incredibly well given the squad at his disposal and the fact his hands were tied on transfers. Most experienced managers would have been delighted with CL qualification and a cup final appearance.

But with the players he brought in (ignore the money as there was plenty banked from Hazard and Morata) the pressure was very much on him to deliver. All looked to be going well when we hit top spot in December, but even the most realistic of us supporters could see there were still massive issues defensively to resolve.

And at a club like Chelsea, where the expectations are high and the pressure to deliver silverware is probably the greatest on any PL manager, the performances since then have been very poor. Even the wins against West Ham and Fulham were very poor from a performance perspective (and I would argue that the cup wins against Morecambe and Luton were too).

So whilst I'm disappointed he has been sacked, it was clear to me that he was struggling to figure out how to turn things around and get the best out of his players. I think therefore it was very much the right decision given the recent results and performances. And with Chelsea only being 5 points off the CL spaces a new man can come in, re-energise the squad, and raise morale. We have a good run of games now where 3 wins out of 4 are easily achievable.

I hope Frank goes away, learns from the experience, gets another club soon where he can continue his development, and perhaps return to the club when he's a touch older, a lot wiser, and when the time is more right for him.
		
Click to expand...

Or just as likely Tuchel comes in and does bugger all and you finish outside the top 4 which is just as likely. Why the hell appoint someone who will need learning space and personal development time if you aren't willing to give it to him. We know the reason why, no one would have touched the job 18 months ago and so not only did they appoint a club legend but they really were looking at not being interested in giving him any time to develop and fire him as soon as they didn't look like they were going to win the league.

A decent club would have gone, no Frank we do want you as a manager in the future we just need you more developed come back in 5 years or so when you are ready but nope.


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## PieMan (Jan 25, 2021)

Reemul said:



			Or just as likely Tuchel comes in and does bugger all and you finish outside the top 4 which is just as likely. Why the hell appoint someone who will need learning space and personal development time if you aren't willing to give it to him. We know the reason why, no one would have touched the job 18 months ago and so not only did they appoint a club legend but they really were looking at not being interested in giving him any time to develop and fire him as soon as they didn't look like they were going to win the league.

A decent club would have gone, no Frank we do want you as a manager in the future we just need you more developed come back in 5 years or so when you are ready but nope.
		
Click to expand...

Yep whoever comes in - and Tuchel is the favourite - could come in and not change anything with regards to results and performance, but it's not as if Chelsea are entering into unchartered territory in this respect.

Since Abramovich took over I think I'm right in saying that only Manchester United have won more trophies than Chelsea, and we've more or less had triple the number of managers. Not everyone likes his way of doing business on the managerial front - even a significant number of Chelsea fans hate it - but it has proven to be successful time and time again.

I fully expect Frank to return to Chelsea as manager at some point in the future.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 25, 2021)

Chelsea exceeded expectations last season but, ironically  that was largely with previous managers' players.

This season doesn't appear to be going as well (still early days) and yet the club spent somewhere around £250 million during the summer. 

Might that have had a big influence upon the owner's decision to get rid of Lampard?


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## PieMan (Jan 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Chelsea exceeded expectations last season but, ironically  that was largely with previous managers' players.

This season doesn't appear to be going as well (still early days) and yet the club spent somewhere around £250 million during the summer.

Might that have had a big influence upon the owner's decision to get rid of Lampard?
		
Click to expand...

Possibly, but I think people are taking the £250m at face value and forget that the club banked roughly £160 million from the Hazard and Morata transfers (more is still to come from Hazard if he stays at Real) as well as the CL qualification cash. So the outlay on new players probably worked out to £20 million per player, which is nothing in modern day football. 

In my opinion the decision was purely based on results/performances and the concern that the team would continue to lose touch wirh the CL spaces.

Given Lampard's status at Chelsea I'm sure the decision was a tough one - no other Chelsea manager has received a public message of thanks from the owner.

Lampard has also released a statement that shows a lot of class too.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 25, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Possibly, but I think people are taking the £250m at face value and forget that the club banked roughly £160 million from the Hazard and Morata transfers (more is still to come from Hazard if he stays at Real) as well as the CL qualification cash. So the outlay on new players probably worked out to £20 million per player, which is nothing in modern day football.

In my opinion the decision was purely based on results/performances and the concern that the team would continue to lose touch wirh the CL spaces.

Given Lampard's status at Chelsea I'm sure the decision was a tough one - no other Chelsea manager has received a public message of thanks from the owner.

Lampard has also released a statement that shows a lot of class too.
		
Click to expand...

True. 

My point was not so much about the expenditure but more to do with his difficulty in integrating new players into the squad  and evolving a style of play with those players.


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## Orikoru (Jan 25, 2021)

That took a bit longer than it should have done but we got there in the end. Ndombele really is very good.


----------



## Rlburnside (Jan 25, 2021)

Wycombe played well tonight especially first half but Spurs fitness and quality was to much for them in the end, Ndombele is showing regularly what a class player he is, good to see Winks having a good game he’s a different player when he plays more direct.


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## Piece (Jan 25, 2021)

One thing about Lampard, at least he gave some of the youngsters a chance and some have taken it.


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## PieMan (Jan 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			True.

My point was not so much about the expenditure but more to do with his difficulty in integrating new players into the squad  and evolving a style of play with those players.
		
Click to expand...

Yes good point - that took longer than expected. He was also unlucky in that Ziyech picked up a couple of injuries; and Havertz contracted Covid - both are only really coming back to full fitness. 

Will be sods law that their best, and Werner's, will no doubt coincide with the new manager! Anyway at least its never dull on the Chelsea manager merry-go-round!! 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Did Frank take on the Chelsea job too early in his managerial career? Of course he did - he was nowhere near experienced enough. But - given what the club means to him, and what he means to the club (both hierarchy and supporters) it was impossible for him to turn down. I for one certainly don't blame him for doing so and was very excited at the prospect of his return.

Last season he did incredibly well given the squad at his disposal and the fact his hands were tied on transfers. Most experienced managers would have been delighted with CL qualification and a cup final appearance.

But with the players he brought in (ignore the money as there was plenty banked from Hazard and Morata) the pressure was very much on him to deliver. All looked to be going well when we hit top spot in December, but even the most realistic of us supporters could see there were still massive issues defensively to resolve.

And at a club like Chelsea, where the expectations are high and the pressure to deliver silverware is probably the greatest on any PL manager, the performances since then have been very poor. Even the wins against West Ham and Fulham were very poor from a performance perspective (and I would argue that the cup wins against Morecambe and Luton were too).

So whilst I'm disappointed he has been sacked, it was clear to me that he was struggling to figure out how to turn things around and get the best out of his players. I think therefore it was very much the right decision given the recent results and performances. And with Chelsea only being 5 points off the CL spaces a new man can come in, re-energise the squad, and raise morale. We have a good run of games now where 3 wins out of 4 are easily achievable.

I hope Frank goes away, learns from the experience, gets another club soon where he can continue his development, and perhaps return to the club when he's a touch older, a lot wiser, and when the time is more right for him.
		
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I hope Rafa goes away, learns from the experience, gets another club soon where he can continue his development, and perhaps return to the club when he's a touch older, a lot wiser, and when the time is more right for him. 

We all knew you would see sense in the end.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 25, 2021)

Oh I forgot to mention what made me laugh in the Man. United v Liverpool game, when Robertson was chasing down Greenwood when was running in on goal, he shouted at him to try and put him off 😂. just like a schoolboy 😂


----------



## PieMan (Jan 26, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Oh I forgot to mention what made me laugh in the Man. United v Liverpool game, when Robertson was chasing down Greenwood when was running in on goal, he shouted at him to try and put him off 😂. just like a schoolboy 😂
		
Click to expand...

Seen this so many times with my U16s! Have to remind them that it could result in a booking for unsporting behaviour!! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️😂

As it was a Liverpool player I was hoping the FA would issue a retrospective red card and 3 match ban.........! 😉 😂 😂


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## Stuart_C (Jan 26, 2021)

Rule "interpretation" changes to come into affect after City's non offside goal.

I'm curious as to why they've decided to change mid way through the season.  Why change the correct interpretation of a rule? After all it was the correct decision last week 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

This has all the finger prints of a Johnson/Hancock/Gove balls up 🤭🤭


Man City 'offside' goal against Aston Villa would now be penalised, says Premier League - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55814673


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Rule "interpretation" changes to come into affect after City's non offside goal.

I'm curious as to why they've decided to change mid way through the season.  Why change the correct interpretation of a rule? After all it was the correct decision last week 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

This has all the finger prints of a Johnson/Hancock/Gove balls up 🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

Yes it’s like when you need traffic lights at a dangerous junction.
They don’t put them in until someone gets killed.
They should also tell the Lino’s to flag for offside as well.


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## Orikoru (Jan 26, 2021)

Are Raphinha and Rodrigo the exact same player or what? I think they've just cloned him and given similar names.


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## pendodave (Jan 26, 2021)

Let's all take a little moment to appreciate the top team in London....
...
...
I thank you.


----------



## paddyc (Jan 26, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Let's all take a little moment to appreciate the top team in London....
...
...
I thank you.
		
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Yes they have just equalised against Southampton guvnor.


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## Fade and Die (Jan 26, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Let's all take a little moment to appreciate the top team in London....
...
...
I thank you.
		
Click to expand...

Be typical if we have our best season in years, qualify for Europe and we don’t get to go!😩


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## fundy (Jan 26, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Yes they have just equalised against Southampton guvnor.
		
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cheers Pat, just spat my drink everywhere lol


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## funkycoldmedina (Jan 26, 2021)

Wait till the flag up early fans see Man City's second goal


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## pendodave (Jan 26, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Be typical if we have our best season in years, qualify for Europe and we don’t get to go!😩
		
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Yep.
I could be wrong,  but i think our mid 80s high spot was also denied a european campaign. 35years ago. My lad is about the same age now as I was then. Better tell him to start looking forward to the 2056 season...


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## Fade and Die (Jan 26, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Yep.
I could be wrong,  but i think our mid 80s high spot was also denied a european campaign. 35years ago. My lad is about the same age now as I was then. Better tell him to start looking forward to the 2056 season...
		
Click to expand...

Indeed it was, thanks to Liverpool...but we will always have the 1999 intertoto cup glory to bask in!😆


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## pendodave (Jan 26, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Indeed it was, thanks to Liverpool...but we will always have the 1999 intertoto cup glory to bask in!😆
		
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My familiarity with obscure Eastern European geography is due mainly to occasional whu campaigns over the years.


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## fundy (Jan 26, 2021)

Saka really has been a shining light this season for us


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## USER1999 (Jan 26, 2021)

Good one touch pass from Laca too. None of this slow build up rubbish.

Pity Tierney isn't fit, and don't like Luiz playing. No idea what's happened to Pablo Mari. The rest of the team is fine, for what is available.


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## fundy (Jan 26, 2021)

5.5 for Lacazette


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## fundy (Jan 26, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Good one touch pass from Laca too. None of this slow build up rubbish.

Pity Tierney isn't fit, and don't like Luiz playing. No idea what's happened to Pablo Mari. The rest of the team is fine, for what is available.
		
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Mari has a calf strain (as does Ceballos)


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## paddyc (Jan 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Saka really has been a shining light this season for us 

Click to expand...

Another one of those stupid offsides when saka clearly offside, get the flag up, no wait he then gets tackled and possibly injured. Need to change this ridiculous process.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 26, 2021)

Be an interesting game against Liverpool coming up

Us in good form 6 in a row 

Liverpool not

No doubt they will turn us over but hey I'm gonna win those bets with those on here by looks


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## USER1999 (Jan 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Mari has a calf strain (as does Ceballos)
		
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And Tierney. What the heck are they all doing?


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## pendodave (Jan 26, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			And Tierney. What the heck are they all doing?
		
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Maybe it's a euphemism....
Like dj and his "jetski injury"


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## Orikoru (Jan 26, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Another one of those stupid offsides when saka clearly offside, get the flag up, no wait he then gets tackled and possibly injured. Need to change this ridiculous process.
		
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Have you seen Cancelo's goal? Lino puts the flag up on Bernardo. West Brom players all kind of stopped or half-arsed press (not much different to the rest of their game though in that respect) - Cancelo gets the ball and bends it in. Turns out Bernardo was onside! 

Lino is Sian Massey too... maybe someone had better get down there and explain the offside rule to her?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Be an interesting game against Liverpool coming up

Us in good form 6 in a row

Liverpool not

No doubt they will turn us over but hey *I'm gonna win those bets with those on here by looks*

Click to expand...

Just thinking about that, send my your bank details and I’ll do a paddy power and pay you out early🤦


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## pauljames87 (Jan 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Just thinking about that, send my your bank details and I’ll do a paddy power and pay you out early🤦
		
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They were all help for hero bets if I remember correctly so no need


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## Stuart_C (Jan 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			They were all help for hero bets if I remember correctly so no need
		
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Ok I’ll sort it out when I pay my H4H donation.👍🏻


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## Orikoru (Jan 26, 2021)

What was the bet?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What was the bet?
		
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West Ham bottom half/relegated. Think it was a 10er


----------



## fundy (Jan 26, 2021)

Pepe booked for not leaving the field quick enough when waiting to see if ESR is injured. Doesnt go off, still booked lol

oh joy Willian time


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## fundy (Jan 26, 2021)

Boooooooooooooooom


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What was the bet?
		
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Had a few bets 

Think stu gave me a top 12 bet

Had one with someone about us finishing above wolves I think 

Another one think took me for top 10

All £10

Got to check them can't remember off top of head they in the thread somewhere


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## paddyc (Jan 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Boooooooooooooooom 

Click to expand...

Lacaaaaaaa oh yes


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## USER1999 (Jan 26, 2021)

Good play from Cedric, great cross in from Saka, tidy finish. Very nice. It's almost like watching Arsenal


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## fundy (Jan 26, 2021)

FFS Luiz just a disaster waiting to happen again!


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## USER1999 (Jan 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			FFS Luiz just a disaster waiting to happen again!
		
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Can't disagree. Sooner he is gone the better, and can he take Willian with him.


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## Orikoru (Jan 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Had a few bets

Think stu gave me a top 12 bet

Had one with someone about us finishing above wolves I think

Another one think took me for top 10

All £10

Got to check them can't remember off top of head they in the thread somewhere
		
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Fair play. Moyes is doing a grand job, where plenty have failed - including himself, bizarrely. In Soucek he appears to have found his Tim Cahill / Fellaini to build the team around!


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## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Have you seen Cancelo's goal? Lino puts the flag up on Bernardo. West Brom players all kind of stopped or half-arsed press (not much different to the rest of their game though in that respect) - Cancelo gets the ball and bends it in. Turns out Bernardo was onside!

Lino is Sian Massey too... maybe someone had better get down there and explain the offside rule to her? 

Click to expand...

 My lad has just mentioned it 😳


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## paddyc (Jan 26, 2021)

That is s great win against a good team away from home.16 points from 18 up to 8th should be safe now! Let's hope ESR and Partey ok for weekend Man U oooh


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## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2021)

Just seen City’s “offside” goal. It is one of the worst decisions I have seen this year and there’s some bad ones. It just about sums up everything that is wrong with football and it’s rules re offside


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## Orikoru (Jan 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Just seen City’s “offside” goal. It is one of the worst decisions I have seen this year and there’s some bad ones. It just about sums up everything that is wrong with football and it’s rules re offside
		
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Worst decision how? You mean for her to put the flag up?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Just seen City’s “offside” goal. It is one of the worst decisions I have seen this year and there’s some bad ones. It just about sums up everything that is wrong with football and it’s rules re offside
		
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She put the flag correctly under this stupid direction for them to let play develop, she thought it was offside.

West Brom players failed to play to the whistle and VAR gave the correct decision upon checking if it was a goal or not.

Her actions were correct as she believed it was Offside and once again, players were at fault.


----------



## fundy (Jan 26, 2021)

Anyone seen @SaintHacker


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## SaintHacker (Jan 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Anyone seen @SaintHacker 

Click to expand...

Yeah whatever, who you playing in the next round of the cup? Oh, hang on..


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 27, 2021)

Schoolboy football, lesson 1 : play to the whistle 

Very pleased for Moyes. He did a very fine job at Everton and then had a bumpy ride afterwards. He has found a good home at West Ham and both parties are clearly good for each other.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Schoolboy football, lesson 1 : play to the whistle 

Very pleased for Moyes. He did a very fine job at Everton and then had a bumpy ride afterwards. He has found a good home at West Ham and both parties are clearly good for each other.
		
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Plus the officials have been told to leave the flag down

Why was it raised? Var can decide that's the long of the blooming thing


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## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			She put the flag correctly under this stupid direction for them to let play develop, she thought it was offside.

West Brom players failed to play to the whistle and VAR gave the correct decision upon checking if it was a goal or not.

Her actions were correct as she believed it was Offside and once again, players were at fault.
		
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For me the problem starts when she put the flag up. It’s a few seconds after the player has received the ball and then she flags, everyone has seen it and it kinda from that point it looked Half pace as play continues. The ref allows play to continue as per the rules ( and at this point where play continues someone is gonna get Injured ) Cancelo shoots and Scores. As per every goal it goes to VAR and it’s a goal. At the point of the flag being raised, again there is confusion amongst players coz they have not played to a whistle. Which I fully understand. So why do we have linespersons If VAR is going to review every goal scored. You don’t need them. The game flows yesterday and I doubt if City score.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			For me the problem starts when she put the flag up. It’s a few seconds after the player has received the ball and then she flags, everyone has seen it and it kinda from that point it looked Half pace as play continues. The ref allows play to continue as per the rules ( and at this point where play continues someone is gonna get Injured ) Cancelo shoots and Scores. As per every goal it goes to VAR and it’s a goal. At the point of the flag being raised, again there is confusion amongst players coz they have not played to a whistle. Which I fully understand. So why do we have linespersons If VAR is going to review every goal scored. You don’t need them. The game flows yesterday and I doubt if City score.
		
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The ref assistant isn't just for offside 

Does direction of throws

Alerts ref to bits they missed near them

Team effort

I think with var offside should be taken away from them


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## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The ref assistant isn't just for offside

Does direction of throws

Alerts ref to bits they missed near them

Team effort

I think with var offside should be taken away from them
		
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Exactly, as much as the players screwed up not playing to the whistle, the waters were muddied by the raising of a flag.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			For me the problem starts when she put the flag up. It’s a few seconds after the player has received the ball and then she flags, everyone has seen it and it kinda from that point it looked Half pace as play continues. The ref allows play to continue as per the rules ( and at this point where play continues someone is gonna get Injured ) Cancelo shoots and Scores. As per every goal it goes to VAR and it’s a goal. At the point of the flag being raised, again there is confusion amongst players coz they have not played to a whistle. Which I fully understand. So why do we have linespersons If VAR is going to review every goal scored. You don’t need them. The game flows yesterday and I doubt if City score.
		
Click to expand...

You miss the point Tashy, first though, I hate the directive to wait to raise the flag.

If she’d of put the flag up immediately and she was wrong, City fans would be going mad.

If the ball had broke to a West Brom player and they’d played a long ball up front with a chance to score and the Ref blew his whistle, West Brom would of gone mad.

VAR did it’s job yesterday and remember VAR is limited as to when it can and can’t be used, ie, it’s not used for Offside if it don’t lead to a goal scoring opportunity.

Plus, we keep hearing about players are going to get injured, that’s a red herring, no player has yet been injured because the flag wasn’t raised and I doubt they will.

Pre VAR the Linesman would of been slaughtered, but I say again, the players were at fault.


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## Beezerk (Jan 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Exactly, as much as the players screwed up not playing to the whistle, the waters were muddied by the raising of a flag.
		
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Thing is, if you've played football at any level, if the lines person puts their flag up then generally you stop as the ref will usually blow anyway. I don't ever recall a situation, in amateur football anyway, where a ref has over ruled a lino and said play on. As much as it pains me, I think when var is involved the lino needs to keep the flag down as this sort of situation arises.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 27, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Thing is, if you've played football at any level, if the lines person puts their flag up then generally you stop as the ref will usually blow anyway. I don't ever recall a situation, in amateur football anyway, where a ref has over ruled a lino and said play on. As much as it pains me, I think when var is involved the lino needs to keep the flag down as this sort of situation arises.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair though mate, Officials are not mic’d up at any level below the elite and therefore accept the Linesman’s decision.

In all seriousness how many times have you seen “Club” Linesman ignored?


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## Beezerk (Jan 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			To be fair though mate, Officials are not mic’d up at any level below the elite and therefore accept the Linesman’s decision.
		
Click to expand...

You could argue that makes it even worse.
Lino...he's offside.
Ref. Ok I'll blow and check 

Instead it was...

Lino. he's offside
Ref. Tough, he's through on goal and the thicko defenders have stopped, besides we have VAR to get us out of jail 😅


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## GreiginFife (Jan 27, 2021)

Think its great to see Sloth from the Goonies has slimmed down, got his teeth fixed and got in to football. 

Good on him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 27, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			You could argue that makes it even worse.
Lino...he's offside.
Ref. Ok I'll blow and check

Instead it was...

Lino. he's offside
Ref. Tough, he's through on goal and the thicko defenders have stopped, besides we have VAR to get us out of jail 😅
		
Click to expand...

I meant in relation to very other level.😂😂


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## Orikoru (Jan 27, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Thing is, if you've played football at any level, if the lines person puts their flag up then generally you stop as the ref will usually blow anyway. I don't ever recall a situation, in amateur football anyway, where a ref has over ruled a lino and said play on. As much as it pains me, I think when var is involved the lino needs to keep the flag down as this sort of situation arises.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this. She was wrong to raise the flag in line with how they've been told to do it this season - other linos have been keeping the flag down until the move is completely dead. She only waited until Bernardo got possession of the ball. 

We've been complaining about the ones where it's quite clearly offside, I think the linos should still flag then to save any potential incidents - but this one was very tight, she should really have kept it down until the ball was in the net, then maybe raise the flag to say it needs to be reviewed for offside. I agree with you it is difficult, but players really need to play to the whistle more than ever these days - even after the whistle because decisions can be changed! Sam will be furious with his defenders on that one.


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## Orikoru (Jan 27, 2021)

Rather than just slating the lines(wo)man, we should probably also praise the ref for allowing play to carry on rather than stop it for the 'offside' which would have been incorrect. So well done to him.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2021)

Exactly my thoughts Ori.


Orikoru said:



			Rather than just slating the lines(wo)man, we should probably also praise the ref for allowing play to carry on rather than stop it for the 'offside' which would have been incorrect. So well done to him.
		
Click to expand...

I for one am not nessasarily having a pop at her. After all if she is following the letter of the law. She is doing her/ the job correctly. For me what is wrong is the rule that says “ we do it this way”. Same as certain aspects of VAR and handball. How many posts have been written on this Premier league topic coz we all see it differently. Although some comments do have a hint of rose tinted glasses 😉. 
like you say the ref called it correctly.


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## Jensen (Jan 27, 2021)

If hairdressers are closed, how does Pogba manage to change his every week?


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## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2021)

Jensen said:



			If hairdressers are closed, how does Pogba manage to change his every week?
		
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fingers in an electric socket like me dad once did. He promptly got kicked out of the church choir much to the shame of me grandma.😁


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## Orikoru (Jan 27, 2021)

Jensen said:



			If hairdressers are closed, how does Pogba manage to change his every week?
		
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Would not be at all surprised if football clubs each have their own private barber who gets Covid tested and cuts hair at the training ground to be honest. Not implausible at all.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Would not be at all surprised if football clubs each have their own private barber who gets Covid tested and cuts hair at the training ground to be honest. Not implausible at all.
		
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Hairdressers are banned from operating right now, tested or not. The only possibility is whether one of the other players does it? Not out of the question.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Hairdressers are banned from operating right now, tested or not. The only possibility is whether one of the other players does it? Not out of the question.
		
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I would say his girlfriend is good with curlers!


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## pauljames87 (Jan 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Hairdressers are banned from operating right now, tested or not. The only possibility is whether one of the other players does it? Not out of the question.
		
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Nothing stopping a hairdresser retraining as a member of the canteen staff and being employed by the club ...

Anything is possible


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## Orikoru (Jan 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Hairdressers are banned from operating right now, tested or not. The only possibility is whether one of the other players does it? Not out of the question.
		
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_Is _that the only possibility? Would you rule out that maybe the clubs have just secretly got a barber in to keep their players happy because they essentially do whatever they want?


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## fundy (Jan 27, 2021)

Cracking game between Burnley and villa for anyone watching the 0-0 snorefest


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



_Is _that the only possibility? Would you rule out that maybe the clubs have just secretly got a barber in to keep their players happy because they essentially do whatever they want?
		
Click to expand...

That's a fair point. I'd forgotten that regular rules don't apply.


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## Orikoru (Jan 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Cracking game between Burnley and villa for anyone watching the 0-0 snorefest
		
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I never switch games - once you're watching one you're committed. If I switched over it's guaranteed the scoring would stop, and Chelsea & Wolves would suddenly start banging them in. Classic after the horse has bolted stuff. Already missed the boat.


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## fundy (Jan 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I never switch games - once you're watching one you're committed. If I switched over it's guaranteed the scoring would stop, and Chelsea & Wolves would suddenly start banging them in. Classic after the horse has bolted stuff. Already missed the boat. 

Click to expand...

turned over at 1-1


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## Orikoru (Jan 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			turned over at 1-1 

Click to expand...

But you're not me.


----------



## fundy (Jan 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But you're not me. 

Click to expand...

thankfully


----------



## fundy (Jan 27, 2021)

If (and its a massive IF) Fulham were to win against Brighton the relgation battle starts to look a bit more interesting


----------



## JamesR (Jan 27, 2021)

So the Mighty Burnley get 3 points closer to winning the league 🙌


----------



## fundy (Jan 27, 2021)

Wow Loftus Cheek missed a massive chance at the death there for all 3 points


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2021)

Hmm quote from Manc evening news
In this case, the Premier League have told BBC Radio Manchester that they accept the flag could have been held until the move had finished, but was raised as Bernardo stopped to assess his option.
With hindsight, they say it should have stayed down as VAR would have checked the offside anyway, which showed Bernardo was being played onside by a defender on the far side.

Furthermore.
The incident came after the Premier League changed the rules around offside that would see a repeat of Bernardo's goal against Aston Villa last week disallowed.Rodri had come back from a clearly offside position to dispossess Tyrone Mings after he had played the ball and brought it down, before feeding Bernardo to score. Now, Rodri would be deemed to be offside rather than a new phase of play starting when the defender played the ball, and a similar incident in Villa's next game against Newcastle would have seen Ollie Watkins' goal ruled out.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Cracking game between Burnley and villa for anyone watching the 0-0 snorefest
		
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I enjoyed it


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 27, 2021)

What a result for Sheff UTD 😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a result for Sheff UTD 😂😂
		
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FFS Phil🙄


----------



## Jensen (Jan 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a result for Sheff UTD 😂😂
		
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Don’t think it’ll mean much in the grand scheme of things


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 28, 2021)

Yeah, we can definitely give the title to City. The only team playing proper football at the minute.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2021)

Yep,think they’ve had their wobble.


----------



## 2blue (Jan 28, 2021)

Am sick of hearing the LUFC fans having a 'laugh' at Chelsea's sacking of Frank, one of England's significant past players. Sadly, Bielsa's "class" has not fully rubbed off on a great number of them.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 28, 2021)

God I hate McManaman. Can't stand listening to him. Utter garbage he spouts.


----------



## IanM (Jan 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			God I hate McManaman. Can't stand listening to him. Utter garbage he spouts.
		
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I can't hear him.  But the dogs are howling for some reason


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2021)

Dier surley has to just put that in row z.
Good from reds just need one less touch and speed up a bit.
Unlucky for Son good finish unlike Manes has to at least hit the target.
Tiago needs to stay on his feet, 
Spurs good going forward but giving us so much space to play in.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2021)

2blue said:



			Am sick of hearing the LUFC fans having a 'laugh' at Chelsea's sacking of Frank, one of England's significant past players. Sadly, Bielsa's "class" has not fully rubbed off on a great number of them.
		
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Yes he’s done ok with what he had.
But money talks at the club and am surprised any manager goes there given the clubs record with managers.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			God I hate McManaman. Can't stand listening to him. Utter garbage he spouts.
		
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They have to put him on to balance out Hoddle!


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## Orikoru (Jan 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			They have to put him on to balance out Hoddle!
		
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Hoddle is great though. Love him. If you mean in terms of bias then yes probably. Stole a trick from Sky having both Nev and Carra on Utd Liverpool. Although they have a bit of repartee where McManaman and Hoddle I don't think have interacted once.


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Hoddle is great though. Love him. If you mean in terms of bias then yes probably. Stole a trick from Sky having both Nev and Carra on Utd Liverpool. Although they have a bit of repartee where McManaman and Hoddle I don't think have interacted once.
		
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hoddle is not great lol, not as bad as macca, but a long long way from being great


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## IanM (Jan 28, 2021)

Dull old game...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 28, 2021)

So I can understand why the chalk the goal of for handball - but why then is it not a free kick against Dier for the handball against Dier or the shirt pulling 🤷‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2021)

Surley that’s handball by Dier first and a foul.
VAR ok but the ref ?
How’s that a foul for Spurs?


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So I can understand why the chalk the goal of for handball - but why then is it not a free kick against Dier for the handball against Dier or the shirt pulling 🤷‍♂️
		
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Atkinson ,Moss and Friend that’s why.


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## Orikoru (Jan 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So I can understand why the chalk the goal of for handball - but why then is it not a free kick against Dier for the handball against Dier or the shirt pulling 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Because hand ball only counts if you're an attacker these days.


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## Orikoru (Jan 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Surley that’s handball by Dier first and a foul.
VAR ok but the ref ?
How’s that a foul for Spurs?
		
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I would assume because they are only checking VAR to see if there was a handball in the build up to the goal - there was, so they give free kick to Spurs. They are not checking it for a Spurs hand ball so they ignore that.


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2021)

Time to get a better bus Jose lol


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 28, 2021)

I'm having the misfortune of having to listen to the match on Talk Sport as I haven't got BT Sport. When did Mo Salah's name get changed to Salarrrrrrrr? That's how they're pronouncing it in the commentary.


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## Orikoru (Jan 28, 2021)

We might as well just give Liverpool 6 points at the start of every season. What a total waste of time.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 28, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm having the misfortune of having to listen to the match on Talk Sport as I haven't got BT Sport. When did Mo Salah's name get changed to Salarrrrrrrr? That's how they're pronouncing it in the commentary.
		
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I find talksport is better on mute!


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## Piece (Jan 28, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm having the misfortune of having to listen to the match on Talk Sport as I haven't got BT Sport. When did Mo Salah's name get changed to Salarrrrrrrr? That's how they're pronouncing it in the commentary.
		
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I'm watching on an 'alternative' platform via NBC with Lee Dixon and another  English chappie. Good commentary.


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## Dando (Jan 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I would assume because they are only checking VAR to see if there was a handball in the build up to the goal - there was, so they give free kick to Spurs. They are not checking it for a Spurs hand ball so they ignore that.
		
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But surely they shouldn’t overlook the handball by Dier as that was the offence


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## Dando (Jan 28, 2021)

Traminator said:



			What, cancel Liverpool's goal and give them a free kick instead?
		
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i have no idea as it’s a one big messy mess but the offence was by dier


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## Orikoru (Jan 28, 2021)

Dando said:



			But surely they shouldn’t overlook the handball by Dier as that was the offence
		
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No - not the one they were reviewing it for. Why would they review for a Spurs hand ball after a Liverpool goal? They're reviewing for a Liverpool hand ball only, because that would chalk off the goal.

Doesn't matter now anyway. Why wait until 80 minutes to send Bale on? Two goals in ten minutes please Gareth mate. What's the point?


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## Rlburnside (Jan 28, 2021)

If Jose’s such a master tactician how come we only played for the first ten minutes? Liverpool totally dominated the game 😡


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 28, 2021)

Really good performance- Milner was outstanding in the middle , Thiago also starting to find his feet but the front three on their game which makes a big difference


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I would assume because they are only checking VAR to see if there was a handball in the build up to the goal - there was, so they give free kick to Spurs. They are not checking it for a Spurs hand ball so they ignore that.
		
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Really.
Even though the handball comes directly from a handball by a Spurs player?

AA brilliant .
But Milner and Winaldum fantastic.
Took our chances and it makes a massive difference to the performance.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Really.
Even though the handball comes directly from a handball by a Spurs player?
		
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I would assume that if the handball by the Spurs player comes first the decision is play on, which then leads on to the hand ball by the Liverpool player. VAR is only looking for a handball by the Liverpool player in the build up to the goal as they aren't allowed to review the handball by the Spurs player as it didn't lead to a Spurs goal.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Think logically guys, he can't disallow the Reds goal and then give them a free kick on the half way line instead 🤷‍♂️

The Dier handball is obviously overlooked in favour of the goal, however the goal is disallowed due to the Firminho handball.
		
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So that’s two wrongs


ColchesterFC said:



			I would assume that if the handball by the Spurs player comes first the decision is play on, which then leads on to the hand ball by the Liverpool player. VAR is only looking for a handball by the Liverpool player in the build up to the goal as they aren't allowed to review the handball by the Spurs player as it didn't lead to a Spurs goal.
		
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yes I see this but if you play the advantage rule for the Dier handball can you chalk off the advantage because the direct action of Diers handball is to knock it on to Bobby’s arm .?
So no advantage to Liverpool.???
VAR does come up with some very strange situations, but the refs will still say they are correct.
Most fans would say the first offence was by Dier.


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## Orikoru (Jan 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Really.
Even though the handball comes directly from a handball by a Spurs player?
		
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What can they do then? As @Traminator said you can't really give Liverpool a free kick, because in that scenario the advantage rule would be played and they'd take the goal?? The point that you missed though is that they're only 'allowed' (by their own made up rules) to review certain incidents on the VAR. An innocuous hand ball from Dier - no, it doesn't get reviewed. A handball by an attacker in the build-up to a goal - yes it gets reviewed and the goal is chalked off. They will happily ignore something that's right on the screen in front of them if it's not something that they would normally review. They've been doing this all season - like when a penalty is cancelled because it was a dive. But they don't book the player who dived because they don't review yellow card incidents on VAR. It sounds mad but that is how they've been doing it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes he’s done ok with what he had.
But money talks at the club and am surprised any manager goes there given the clubs record with managers.
		
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Big salary, big pay off when sacked. Everyone knows how Chelsea treat their managers so does it really damage them when sacked? It's almost a no lose situation.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What can they do then? As @Traminator said you can't really give Liverpool a free kick, because in that scenario the advantage rule would be played and they'd take the goal?? The point that you missed though is that they're only 'allowed' (by their own made up rules) to review certain incidents on the VAR. An innocuous hand ball from Dier - no, it doesn't get reviewed. A handball by an attacker in the build-up to a goal - yes it gets reviewed and the goal is chalked off. They will happily ignore something that's right on the screen in front of them if it's not something that they would normally review. They've been doing this all season - like when a penalty is cancelled because it was a dive. But they don't book the player who dived because they don't review yellow card incidents on VAR. It sounds mad but that is how they've been doing it.
		
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Any decent ref imo sees the Dier handball .
Once it hits Bobby on the arm he should blow for the foul by Dier . In the full knowledge that if Liverpool score he will have to disallow the goal.
But he relied on VAR as his crutch again.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Simple question, do you want Liverpool's goal chalked off and replaced by a free kick on the half way line? Yes or no?

Play on or free kick?
		
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Imo he should blow for the foul on Bobby ..
He should know if we score it’s getting disallowed so where is the advantage in playing on?
Diers handball leads directly to handball by Firmino that’s when he should stop the game
If he didn’t see it he should not be in the PL.


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## Orikoru (Jan 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Any decent ref imo sees the Dier handball .
Once it hits Bobby on the arm he should blow for the foul by Dier . In the full knowledge that if Liverpool score he will have to disallow the goal.
But he relied on VAR as his crutch again.
		
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Of course he *sees *it, he's not blind! Generally he'd probably just play on as the double handball is inconsequential in general play. Bad luck that it resulted in a goal I guess as it suddenly becomes relevant. But generally he doesn't want to give every little accidental handball as the game would be very stop-start.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Of course he *sees *it, he's not blind! Generally he'd probably just play on as the double handball is inconsequential in general play. Bad luck that it resulted in a goal I guess as it suddenly becomes relevant. But generally he doesn't want to give every little accidental handball as the game would be very stop-start.
		
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ACCIDENTAL is the problem.
That’s not handball unless it leads to a goal.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Big salary, big pay off when sacked. Everyone knows how Chelsea treat their managers so does it really damage them when sacked? It's almost a no lose situation.
		
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Yes but he actually did better without all the very expensive buys.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Of course he *sees *it, he's not blind! Generally he'd probably just play on as the double handball is inconsequential in general play. Bad luck that it resulted in a goal I guess as it suddenly becomes relevant. But generally he doesn't want to give every little accidental handball as the game would be very stop-start.
		
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Your wasting your time! VAR has only been in 2 seasons and some people still ask the same questions every game, VAR is explained to them everytime and then they blame the Officials.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2021)

The best team won.

A massive improvement on the last few weeks performances.

Anybody expecting VAR or Atkinson to wipe our goal out then give us a free kick on the half way line is deluded.

I loved JM’s shithouse tactics, even more so when the 2nd went in 😁😁


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes he’s done ok with what he had.
But money talks at the club and am surprised any manager goes there given the clubs record with managers.
		
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Why not?

Get a 5 year contract paid off after 6,18 or 24 months, whether successful or not.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Think logically guys, he can't disallow the Reds goal and then give them a free kick on the half way line instead 🤷‍♂️

The Dier handball is obviously overlooked in favour of the goal, however the goal is disallowed due to the Firminho handball.
		
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Yes, but its criminal when someone hand balls it, has two hands holding Firminho's shirt, yet gets a free kick - thats just plain wrong.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The best team won.

A massive improvement on the last few weeks performances.

Anybody expecting VAR or Atkinson to wipe our goal out then give us a free kick on the half way line is deluded.

I loved JM’s shithouse tactics, even more so when the 2nd went in 😁😁
		
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Yea the tactics helped Liverpool massively after you played poorly the last 4/5 games and not scoring for god knows how long we conceded possession and that helped you get plenty of the ball and build confidence. 

I couldn’t believe how much freedom you had first half, the best team deservedly won. 

After another false dawn it’s back to the same but only worse now as I’ve got to endure more of the same bloody tactics.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/55834354

Christ the guy had his issue but what a player he was , got to be up there with the best the Prem has seen - 69 goals in 110 games . He is one player in the last 20 years I would take back right now


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## Kellfire (Jan 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/55834354

Christ the guy had his issue but what a player he was , got to be up there with the best the Prem has seen - 69 goals in 110 games . He is one player in the last 20 years I would take back right now
		
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I assume you mean as the player he was and not the one he is now? He wouldn’t work in the Liverpool system anymore but yea, back in the day he’d have slotted in perfectly to this system.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 29, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Yea the tactics helped Liverpool massively after you played poorly the last 4/5 games and not scoring for god knows how long we conceded possession and that helped you get plenty of the ball and build confidence.

I couldn’t believe how much freedom you had first half, the best team deservedly won.

After another false dawn it’s back to the same but only worse now as I’ve got to endure more of the same bloody tactics.
		
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10 men behind the ball then lumping it to Kane/Son was like Allardyce tactics 🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Jan 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/55834354

Christ the guy had his issue but what a player he was , got to be up there with the best the Prem has seen - 69 goals in 110 games . He is one player in the last 20 years I would take back right now
		
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That would help our CB issues 😁😁


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## Old Skier (Jan 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			10 men behind the ball then lumping it to Kane/Son was like Allardyce tactics 🤣🤣
		
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He has obviously been watching Wrexham and the useless Keats school of tactics.


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## Orikoru (Jan 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			10 men behind the ball then lumping it to Kane/Son was like Allardyce tactics 🤣🤣
		
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I'm not sure we had any tactics, or at least I'm not sure what they were. Once we lose Kane we're completely directionless because nobody can do what he does - only precious few players on earth can let alone in our squad.

When I saw the line-up I thought we were going to go 4-4-2 as we did last time against Liverpool - with Doherty in front of Aurier (as opposed to Sissoko as it was last time), Bergwijn left - which he did to stop their full backs. That would have made some sense as we played alright in that game, just got done by a very late goal. But the system he ended up using made no sense at all. Doherty on the left when he has no left foot whatsoever and no real pace to keep up with Salah. As Davies was fit in the end, why not put him on the left and bring Toby in at centre back at least? Bergwijn is useless in attack as well, pointless playing him there really.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 29, 2021)

Said benharmi turned from loan to full

Lingard due on loan over weekend

Will do


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## davemc1 (Jan 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Said benharmi turned from loan to full

Lingard due on loan over weekend

Will do[/QUOTE
		
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A guy who hasn’t scored all season and a guy who hasn’t played all season

you’re easily pleased 😃


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## pauljames87 (Jan 29, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			A guy who hasn’t scored all season and a guy who hasn’t played all season

you’re easily pleased 😃
		
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Provides cover for the squad 

Can play either wing to free fornals or Bowen to cover up top in Bowens case or midfield in fornals case 

He isnt for the first team

It's a squad game


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/55834354

Christ the guy had his issue but what a player he was , got to be up there with the best the Prem has seen - 69 goals in 110 games . He is one player in the last 20 years I would take back right now
		
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Me to a proper goalscorer with a hint of nasty about him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Me to a proper goalscorer with a* hint of nasty* about him.
		
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Just a hint . Perhaps just more than a hint


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just a hint . Perhaps just more than a hint 

Click to expand...

Yes but he did have a bit of bite about him.


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## pendodave (Jan 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but he did have a bit of bite about him.

Click to expand...

I once attended a refs' evening arranged by our local fa. Clattenberg was the guest speaker. He said that of all the players he reffed, Suarez was the one who made the biggest difference to any team - not selfish or mememe, the consumate team player.


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## Orikoru (Jan 29, 2021)

Suarez was absolutely unstoppable on his day, that's for sure. I had the misfortunate of being at White Hart Lane the day we had Fryers and Capoue playing in defence and they stuffed us 5-0 - should have been more. Suarez had an absolutely field day! It was like watching him play against school kids. That was when AVB got the sack I think.


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## JoeyStyles (Jan 29, 2021)

Suarez is still perfect in Atletico. What a magnificent striker! I think that he would be pretty useful in today's Liverpool as well.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 29, 2021)

JoeyStyles said:



			Suarez is still perfect in Atletico. What a magnificent striker! I think that he would be pretty useful in today's Liverpool as well.
		
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Quality player,but total scum.


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## Jensen (Jan 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/55834354

Christ the guy had his issue but what a player he was , got to be up there with the best the Prem has seen - 69 goals in 110 games . He is one player in the last 20 years I would take back right now
		
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Shame he didn’t play wearing Hannibal Lecter’s mask.....


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## Slime (Jan 29, 2021)

He really was a great player, but I wouldn't want him any where near my club.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			He really was a great player, but I wouldn't want him any where near my club.
		
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He's alive!!!! Did you have login problems yesterday 😁😁


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## Slime (Jan 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He's alive!!!! Did you have login problems yesterday 😁😁
		
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Yes mate, alive and well but didn't make a comment as I didn't see the game.
Thought that only right. 
Sorry to learn of Matip's injury.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 29, 2021)

A lot of folk talking about Suarez, but what’s folks thoughts on Diego Costa. He is on a free i believe. I wouldn’t want him at City though.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 29, 2021)

Slime said:




Yes mate, *alive and well but didn't make a comment as I didn't see the game.
Thought that only right*. 
Sorry to learn of Matip's injury.
		
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You should've followed it on twitter.....

I'm quite enjoying seeing the CB pairings Klopp is playing, it's a lucky dip every game 😁


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## Jensen (Jan 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			A lot of folk talking about Suarez, but what’s folks thoughts on Diego Costa. He is on a free i believe. I wouldn’t want him at City though.
		
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Horrible player to be against, but great on your team


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## Slime (Jan 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



*You should've followed it on twitter*.....

I'm quite enjoying seeing the CB pairings Klopp is playing, it's a lucky dip every game 😁
		
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I don't do Twitter.


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## Kellfire (Jan 30, 2021)

Costa is another one that time and injury has slowed down. He’s maybe a Plan B but I don’t think he can start week in week out for a top team.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Horrible player to be against, but great on your team
		
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I said the same to my lad. At the moment re City I don’t want to upset the apple cart.


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## Captainron (Jan 30, 2021)

Seems my prediction of Fulham being dropped when I gave it a shout towards the end of last season is Looking good


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2021)

Blimey Newcastle have got the motorway roadforce tops on today


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey Newcastle have got the motorway roadforce tops on today
		
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seemed to work 1st half, been the better side


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## PieMan (Jan 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey Newcastle have got the motorway roadforce tops on today
		
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Think they're trying to blind the Everton defence!! 😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 30, 2021)

Fully deserved, best team won.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2021)

What an odd season it’s been 😳

Citys easiest game of the season today on paper, 😳 really. Could be a squeaky bum afternoon.


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

SO much more enjoyable watching Iwobi in blue than red  fair play to Newcastle, deserved that albeit got away with targetting Rodriguez ankles time after time


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2021)

And squeaky bum it was.


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## USER1999 (Jan 30, 2021)

Hmm, no Saka, Tierney, or Auba. Not good news. Then add in Luiz, and it could be a long afternoon.


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## paddyc (Jan 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			SO much more enjoyable watching Iwobi in blue than red  fair play to Newcastle, deserved that albeit got away with targetting Rodriguez ankles time after time
		
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Daylight robbery by Arsenal on getting rid of Iwobi😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## paddyc (Jan 30, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Hmm, no Saka, Tierney, or Auba. Not good news. Then add in Luiz, and it could be a long afternoon.
		
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FFS no  Tierney and Saka a big blow. No Auba  on recent form not a big loss.


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## Slime (Jan 30, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Hmm, no Saka, Tierney, or Auba. Not good news. Then add in Luiz, and* it could be a long afternoon.*

Click to expand...

I'm thinking the same, I just don't feel confident about this one.


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## USER1999 (Jan 30, 2021)

At least Willian isn't playing.

Yet.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2021)

I’ve had a bit of Arsenal -2, god knows why🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I’ve had a bit of Arsenal -2, god knows why🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2021)

fundy said:





Click to expand...

I know I know I know 🤦‍♂️


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

5.7 for Fernandes


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

Nice reaction Bruno, studs down the back of the calf, imagine the reaction if that was the other way round lol


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## paddyc (Jan 30, 2021)

So Fernandez rakes his foot down the back of Xhakas ankle, no foul wtf!


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## Dando (Jan 30, 2021)

Don’t want to put this in the Random irritations thread but Martin Tyler saying about the players hardship being away from their families this week.
If my other half was on £100k a week she could go away for as long as she wanted


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## Dando (Jan 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Nice reaction Bruno, studs down the back of the calf, imagine the reaction if that was the other way round lol
		
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He’d still be rolling around next year


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## USER1999 (Jan 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			Don’t want to put this in the Random irritations thread but Martin Tyler saying about the players hardship being away from their families this week.
If my other half was on £100k a week she could go away for as long as she wanted
		
Click to expand...

I would rather mine went away for as long as I wanted.


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## USER1999 (Jan 30, 2021)

How can Mctominey ask Cavani to wait on a corner, while he is treated, and the ref is fine with that? Just get on with it.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2021)

paddyc said:



			So Fernandez rakes his foot down the back of Xhakas ankle, no foul wtf!
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was a shocker, and how that is not a yellow al never know. What I do know he has set a precedent. One senses a little Karma may come his way. 
That said, not a bad game for the neutral and very Impressed with Arsenal at the moment.


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			At least Willian isn't playing.

Yet.
		
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tempted fate on for Martinelli sigh


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2021)

Smith Rowe looks a superb player 

I’m guessing they decided that challenge from Fernandes was a yellow only and if I’m right they can’t give yellows from VAR ?


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## Dando (Jan 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			tempted fate on for Martinelli sigh
		
Click to expand...

willian looks like he’s been on the crack pipe


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## USER1999 (Jan 30, 2021)

Passed it out of play already. Only on for two minutes.


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Passed it out of play already. Only on for two minutes.
		
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wasted our best chance inside 5 mins


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 30, 2021)

We utterly dreadful and have been for a while. Can't see where our next win comes from.


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## USER1999 (Jan 30, 2021)

Arsenal are playing like the away side.


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

only thing worse than Willian is a hobbling Willian lol

lets have a look at Oedegaard instead plse


----------



## paddyc (Jan 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			willian looks like he’s been on the crack pipe
		
Click to expand...

been on it all season mate!


----------



## paddyc (Jan 30, 2021)

Pepe off Odegard on please Arteta.


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Pepe off Odegard on please Arteta.
		
Click to expand...

you misspelt Willian


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 30, 2021)

Lacazette been watching Harry Kane there with that challenge on Pogba.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 30, 2021)

Romain Saiss from us to Liverpool apparently. Would be a big miss for us.


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Romain Saiss from us to Liverpool apparently. Would be a big miss for us.
		
Click to expand...

I like what ive seen of Saiss, you taking Southamptons role on now?


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

5.5 Lacazette


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

lucky dip for who takes the free kicks, Laca hits bar then lets Luiz and Cedric have a go lol


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 30, 2021)

But we have a 72m dead ball specialist?


----------



## Dando (Jan 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Lacazette been watching Harry Kane there with that challenge on Pogba.
		
Click to expand...

It should be outlawed


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Romain Saiss from us to Liverpool apparently. Would be a big miss for us.
		
Click to expand...

unless your lot accept empty milk bottles as payment I’d be very surprised 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355574317770297345
Watching it again it’s hard to see why it isn’t a red card ? Late and studs down the back of leg ?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Lacazette been watching Harry Kane there with that challenge on Pogba.
		
Click to expand...

And now McGuire returning the favour to Lacazette.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I’ve had a bit of Arsenal -2, god knows why🤷‍♂️
		
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erm nothing to see here, move along........


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Lacazette been watching Harry Kane there with that challenge on Pogba.
		
Click to expand...

I was going to say - we've seen him and now Maguire backing in while the other player is jumping. Let's see if we see the same backlash that Kane got. My guess is that we won't.


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

draw a fair result, some signs of improvement alongside some of the same failings, missing a few of our main sparks though

at least feels like theres something to build on now more than there was


----------



## paddyc (Jan 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			draw a fair result, some signs of improvement alongside some of the same failings, missing a few of our main sparks though

at least feels like theres something to build on now more than there was
		
Click to expand...

Decent analysis mate.


----------



## User62651 (Jan 30, 2021)

Anyone else feel Man City will not be caught now? 12 wins on the bounce. 
5 pts ahead of those on same games played and will likely be 6 ahead of utd after game in hand played.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2021)

maxfli65 said:



			Anyone else feel Man City will not be caught now? 12 wins on the bounce.
5 pts ahead of those on same games played and will likely be 6 ahead of utd after game in hand played.
		
Click to expand...

Me, we have a tough month coming up soon. Leicester don’t have the tough run in til April/ May. Plus it’s been a really odd season.


----------



## Slime (Jan 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355574317770297345
Watching it again *it’s hard to see why it isn’t a red card *? Late and studs down the back of leg ?
		
Click to expand...

Probably because he plays for United.


----------



## User62651 (Jan 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Me, we have a tough month coming up soon. Leicester don’t have the tough run in til April/ May. Plus it’s been a really odd season.
		
Click to expand...

You can lose and draw a game and still be in front whilst the others have to win both, at this stage that's a good position.
Big surprise for me is Liverpool's recent form dip though they may have got over that with a good win at Spurs.
Leicester are a good side but not good enough for champions again IMHO.
Are City doing anything in transfer window?


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			I like what ive seen of Saiss, you taking Southamptons role on now?
		
Click to expand...

I wish we were as good as them.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			unless your lot accept empty milk bottles as payment I’d be very surprised 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Out of contract in the summer and Origi the other way on loan.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 30, 2021)

How on earth have VAR not given a penalty for Southampton? The Villa fullback has saved it with his arm.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2021)

maxfli65 said:



			You can lose and draw a game and still be in front whilst the others have to win both, at this stage that's a good position.
Big surprise for me is Liverpool's recent form dip though they may have got over that with a good win at Spurs.
Leicester are a good side but not good enough for champions again IMHO.
Are City doing anything in transfer window?
		
Click to expand...

Ave not heard anything at all, the rumour is that City are going for a Marquee signing at the end of the season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Out of contract in the summer and Origi the other way on loan.
		
Click to expand...

Ah right that sounds plausible....


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			How on earth have VAR not given a penalty for Southampton? The Villa fullback has saved it with his arm.
		
Click to expand...

I'm assuming it came off cash's thigh onto his hand? That or the VAR is just continuing the trend of being utter rubbish


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm assuming it came off cash's thigh onto his hand? That or the VAR is just continuing the trend of being utter rubbish
		
Click to expand...

I think I'll take your second option. He's pretty much dived to his left with his arm out to stop the ball. Couldn't have been any more obvious if he'd caught it.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 30, 2021)

According to Mike Dean the ball flicked up off his thigh so it's not a penalty. I'm not sure how that makes a difference when it would have hit his arm even if it didn't flick up off his thigh. VAR is a joke.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I think I'll take your second option. He's pretty much dived to his left with his arm out to stop the ball. Couldn't have been any more obvious if he'd caught it.
		
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We can all ,except Yernited fans,probably recall when a pen goes against our team that’s harsh then you see that.

Gomez at city for me. Luckily KDB missed it like but never the less


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## SaintHacker (Jan 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			According to Mike Dean the ball flicked up off his thigh so it's not a penalty. I'm not sure how that makes a difference when it would have hit his arm even if it didn't flick up off his thigh. VAR is a joke.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I'm going to.be biased but if thats not a pen then we might as well give up and go home. VAR is ruining the game with decisions like this.
So going by Mike Deans ruling if a defender thighs it then catches it thats not a foul?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 30, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Yes I'm going to.be biased but if thats not a pen then we might as well give up and go home. VAR is ruining the game with decisions like this.
So going by Mike Deans ruling if a defender thighs it then catches it thats not a foul?

Click to expand...

We'll probably get a "clarification of the rules" on Monday when they try to explain why the ref got the decision correct but going forward it would be a penalty for that situation. There would be much more respect for officials if they came out and said "Yes, we got that one wrong", rather than hiding behind the ridiculous excuses of the PGMOL.


----------



## Piece (Jan 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			There would be much more respect for officials if they came out and said "Yes, we got that one wrong", rather than hiding behind the ridiculous excuses of the PGMOL.
		
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Nah, that will never happen. Fans, players and managers will always blame officials whatever they do.


----------



## hairball_89 (Jan 30, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Out of contract in the summer and Origi the other way on loan.
		
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Sounds great to me. Like what I've seen of him and you need a centre forward.

Divock clearly needs a run of games if he's every going to get back to his best form.

Noises of Diop on loan from West Ham for the season too. A little bit left field but if it gets Fabinho back in midfield more and *keeps* Jordan there then I'm all for it!


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2021)

Palmerias v Santos, finished in the 104th minute with Palmerias scoring in the 98th minute. It made City v Sheff Utd look a classic.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 30, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Sounds great to me. Like what I've seen of him and you need a centre forward.

Divock clearly needs a run of games if he's every going to get back to his best form.

Noises of Diop on loan from West Ham for the season too. A little bit left field but if it gets Fabinho back in midfield more and *keeps* Jordan there then I'm all for it!
		
Click to expand...

Apparently just rumours, the guy who seems to be on the button with these things say it's just paper talk 

But if he did go to you on loan might do him good


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

Saints 0 Villa 1 VAR 2

Have to hope they go back to the drawing board in summer!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Saints 0 Villa 1 VAR 2

Have to hope they go back to the drawing board in summer!
		
Click to expand...

There doesn't seem to be no level nowadays. It's either on or off.


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			There doesn't seem to be no level nowadays. It's either on or off.
		
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Is it really hard to apply some common sense, a margin of error and get on with it rather than the current BS


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			There doesn't seem to be no level nowadays. It's either on or off.
		
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That's what the commentator was saying. But how can they be certain the exact point that the ball is passed forwards? The frame rate isn't high enough to give that precise an answer which means that they are just guessing.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's what the commentator was saying. But how can they be certain the exact point that the ball is passed forwards? The frame rate isn't high enough to give that precise an answer which means that they are just guessing.
		
Click to expand...

They can't. 

I just want to see a goal being a scored with an armpit to see how they judge it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Is it really hard to apply some common sense, a margin of error and get on with it rather than the current BS
		
Click to expand...

No it's not but common sense isn't in the rule book


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			No it's not but common sense isn't in the rule book
		
Click to expand...


yet guessing which frame a ball is kicked and comparing where arse to shirt sleeve is?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Saints 0 Villa 1 VAR 2

Have to hope they go back to the drawing board in summer!
		
Click to expand...

Just get rid of it - it’s a complete mess


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just get rid of it - it’s a complete mess
		
Click to expand...

Never going to happen, more a case of them needing to find a way of making it work sadly


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## SaintHacker (Jan 30, 2021)

I think if they have to stick with it then get rid of the control room and get the ref to look at a pitchside monitor like they do on the continent. At least it puts the onus back on the ref to make a decision in the first place


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			I think if they have to stick with it then get rid of the control room and get the ref to look at a pitchside monitor like they do on the continent. At least it puts the onus back on the ref to make a decision in the first place
		
Click to expand...


Whatever happens it needs to be simplified. The Fans need to know exactly what the rules are and how they are being applied and then they need to be consistent for the whole season. For me something like:

Offsides should be based on one body part only (for me the torso) and the attackers should have to be clear of the defenders to be offside, anything else is level and onside (could use furthest forward boot instead)

Going back to look for offenses should be limited to 2 passes previous

Serious foul play should only be looked at it in full speed not slowed down

Offside rule needs to be massively simplified too (anything in the box is interfering for me though)


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## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Saints 0 Villa 1 VAR 2

Have to hope they go back to the drawing board in summer!
		
Click to expand...

just seen it and there shockers.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2021)

Taken from Henry Winter’s twitter

PGMOL/IFAB lucky that fans not in grounds atm because the backlash against VAR micro-officiating & meddling in a glorious, flowing sport would be fierce. Laws changed because of VAR’s unforgiving eye.  Football belongs to fans/players not pedantic forensic units at Stockley Park.

Spot on.


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2021)

Mustafi to Liverpool? Any mileage in this? It would be handy from my point of view.


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Mustafi to Liverpool? Any mileage in this? It would be handy from my point of view.
		
Click to expand...

Im all for it too  think there may be a pattern.....


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Mustafi to Liverpool? Any mileage in this? It would be handy from my point of view.
		
Click to expand...

We’re desperate and I’m annoyed those above Klopp haven’t sorted this problem before now.

We’ve had since November to sort at least 1 CB out yet we’re here on 31st Jan scratching around the bargain basement box looking for a CB.

is he really that bad?


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We’re desperate and I’m annoyed those above Klopp haven’t sorted this problem before now.

We’ve had since November to sort at least 1 CB out yet we’re here on 31st Jan scratching around the bargain basement box looking for a CB.

is he really that bad?
		
Click to expand...

No, he is fantastic. Best CB you have ever seen. Please take him.


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We’re desperate and I’m annoyed those above Klopp haven’t sorted this problem before now.

We’ve had since November to sort at least 1 CB out yet we’re here on 31st Jan scratching around the bargain basement box looking for a CB.

is he really that bad?
		
Click to expand...

we paid 30m+ for him, hes excellent

OR 

have a look at how many ordinary centre halves weve bought and tried ahead of him over the last few years


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			No, he is fantastic. Best CB you have ever seen. Please take him.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			No, he is fantastic. Best CB you have ever seen. Please take him.
		
Click to expand...

He might be a really good player playing in a mid table club who deserves a chance.
Or he might be crap and dragging that team down.
I wonder which.


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He might be a really good player playing in a mid table club who deserves a chance.
Or he might be crap and dragging that team down.
I wonder which.
		
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Neither. He can be absolutely brilliant for 85 minutes, but he will have a 5 minute spell when he just turns off, and makes crucial mistakes.
He also has a habit of trying to make up for mistakes by going in with badly timed sliding tackles.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 31, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We’re desperate and I’m annoyed those above Klopp haven’t sorted this problem before now.

We’ve had since November to sort at least 1 CB out yet we’re here on 31st Jan scratching around the bargain basement box looking for a CB.

is he really that bad?
		
Click to expand...

Its because klopp only has Ralphs number in his phone, and you've cleared us out already


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Its because klopp only has Ralphs number in his phone, and you've cleared us out already 

Click to expand...

hahah I’d be happy with Bednarek


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## hairball_89 (Jan 31, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Neither. He can be absolutely brilliant for 85 minutes, but he will have a 5 minute spell when he just turns off, and makes crucial mistakes.
He also has a habit of trying to make up for mistakes by going in with badly timed sliding tackles.
		
Click to expand...

Have you heard of Dejan Lovren and Martin Skrtel? Sounds like Mustafi would fit right in!


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## 3offTheTee (Jan 31, 2021)

Have brought it into this thread on the basis will City pay?

Messi’s reported contract will  be around €2.5 million WEEKLY. That is over 4 years and has been leaked by Spanish paper


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Have brought it into this thread on the basis will City pay?

Messi’s reported contract will  be around €2.5 million WEEKLY. That is over 4 years and has been leaked by Spanish paper
		
Click to expand...

I wonder how City will get around FFP rules paying that sort of money...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I wonder how City will get around FFP rules “AGAIN” paying that sort of money...
		
Click to expand...

😉
By using Harry Redknapps dogs accountant


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Neither. He can be absolutely brilliant for 85 minutes, but he will have a 5 minute spell when he just turns off, and makes crucial mistakes.
He also has a habit of trying to make up for mistakes by going in with badly timed sliding tackles.
		
Click to expand...

Them two flaws make him a liability then.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 31, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Have brought it into this thread on the basis will City pay?

Messi’s reported contract will  be around €2.5 million WEEKLY. That is over 4 years and has been leaked by Spanish paper
		
Click to expand...

As much as I would have Missis name on the back of a City shirt, how long does he have left 2 years. If he wants to play football with Aguero that would only be on. pS5 box. Aguero is knackered. Me I would sooner have Haaland. For a lot less brass.


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## Piece (Jan 31, 2021)

That is one tidy goal from Salad and Liverpool


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## pauljames87 (Jan 31, 2021)

Piece said:



			That is one tidy goal from Salad and Liverpool
		
Click to expand...

Beautiful both of those goals


----------



## Piece (Jan 31, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Beautiful both of those goals
		
Click to expand...

First was a good finish but very preventable.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2021)

Piece said:



			First was a good finish but very preventable.
		
Click to expand...

Yep - criminal to get him that much space and on his left foot as well , only going to be one winner there 

The second was just world class - great ball from TAA to start even better first time pace from Shaqiri but that finish was just outstanding 

He is just a world class player who should get more recognition Imo


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## Piece (Jan 31, 2021)

40pts for the Reds. Safe for another season. 😁😏


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2021)

First half dull as dishwater.
We came alive when Jones came on and went at them.
Classy finishing from Salah and Gini ( he should score more imo.) 
It’s an easy game when you put your chances away.
Thought WH just stood of off us to much.


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			First half dull as dishwater.
We came alive when Jones came on and went at them.
Classy finishing from Salah and Gini ( he should score more imo.)
It’s an easy game when you put your chances away.
Thought WH just stood of off us to much.
		
Click to expand...


felt like WH couldnt deal with the press so their midfield retreated more and more as the game went on, probably could have done with an extra body in there to help Rice/Soucek the way Liverpool set up and shouldve looked to move the ball forward quicker when they got it


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2021)

Piece said:



			That is one tidy goal from Salad and Liverpool
		
Click to expand...

Better get your tin hat on for the spelling police.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 31, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			First half dull as dishwater.
We came alive when Jones came on and went at them.
Classy finishing from Salah and Gini ( he should score more imo.)
It’s an easy game when you put your chances away.
*Thought WH just stood of off us to much.*

Click to expand...

Didn’t we just! Can see why Moyes has such a poor record against the big sides - it seems he's scared of them.

Very disappointed with our approach today, it was a good test for us to see if we had actually improved but we never stepped up.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Didn’t we just! Can see why Moyes has such a poor record against the big sides - it seems he's scared of them.

Very disappointed with our approach today, it was a good test for us to see if we had actually improved but we never stepped up.
		
Click to expand...

Yes Hendo and Phillips were not really stretched at all.
Thought you would be more direct to bypass the midfield.
Can’t be any worse than you did.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 31, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes Hendo and Phillips were not really stretched at all.
Thought you would be more direct to bypass the midfield.
Can’t be any worse than you did.
		
Click to expand...

We only had one chance in this game and that was to get at them from the start but giving Youse so much respect it has cost us.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 31, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Didn’t we just! Can see why Moyes has such a poor record against the big sides - it seems he's scared of them.

Very disappointed with our approach today, it was a good test for us to see if we had actually improved but we never stepped up.
		
Click to expand...

Shouldn't be affraid to change your tactics to suit the quality of the side you are playing 

Nothing wrong with returning to 5 at the back for such a game


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Shouldn't be affraid to change your tactics to suit the quality of the side you are playing

Nothing wrong with returning to 5 at the back for such a game
		
Click to expand...


that invites them on more and allows them to overrun you in midfield, thats where you needed an extra body today (most likely at the expense of fornals)


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## pauljames87 (Jan 31, 2021)

fundy said:



			that invites them on more and allows them to overrun you in midfield, thats where you needed an extra body today (most likely at the expense of fornals)
		
Click to expand...

We did it brilliantly at begining of the season ... Turned wolves, Leicester over 3-0 Nd 4-0 in the process 

Cresswell moved into midfield from the cb role a lot and got the lion share of his assists just picking out a player


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 31, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Shouldn't be affraid to change your tactics to suit the quality of the side you are playing

Nothing wrong with returning to 5 at the back for such a game
		
Click to expand...

Every time he's played Liverpool, he's been scared stiff of them.
He's more worried about what they'll do to us than the other way round. 
And bringing on Nobles a disgrace.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 31, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Every time he's played Liverpool, he's been scared stiff of them.
He's more worried about what they'll do to us than the other way round.
And bringing on Nobles a disgrace.
		
Click to expand...

Should be sent off to the glue factory already. Do everyone a favour.

Thought Antonio looked in moron mode.. few times there was a better pass on than he went for


Think we focus too much on the "rubbish" CB but that CB will be used to brute play of the English youth system  or just lumping it in box 

It's fancy defenders who are off put by basic force 

Thought we didn't box clever


----------



## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

Is it just me or is there a massive increase in players making snidey little stamps on the foot and ankle lately that get minimally punished? Or was i just not that aware of them before? Almost as the way games are reffed sides find new ways


----------



## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2021)

Think it’s got to the stage now Kane will have to have serious think if he wants to stay at Spurs as this team is going nowhere. 

The only way we might keep him is he’s prone to getting his ankles injured a that might put of clubs off paying the big money for him.


----------



## paddyc (Jan 31, 2021)

Another quality performance  by Gareth Bale ( not)hauled off after 65 mins. Looks totally disinterested.must be tough to motivate yourself to put in a shift when your on an absolute  fortune!!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2021)

fundy said:



			Is it just me or is there a massive increase in players making snidey little stamps on the foot and ankle lately that get minimally punished? Or was i just not that aware of them before? Almost as the way games are reffed sides find new ways
		
Click to expand...

Might just be the blanket coverage.
And the over analysis of everything.
Plus the players now are faster, can jump higher and scream louder than they used to when fouled or diving.


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 31, 2021)

A good few days for the reds results wise. A cb lined up. Alls well in the world again!


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			A good few days for the reds results wise. A cb lined up. Alls well in the world again!
		
Click to expand...

enjoy Mustafi


----------



## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Another quality performance  by Gareth Bale ( not)hauled off after 65 mins. Looks totally disinterested.must be tough to motivate yourself to put in a shift when your on an absolute  fortune!!
		
Click to expand...

He just seemed to jog through the match , this was the game that he really needed to perform, no excuse now as he should be fit enough. 

He won’t be starting the next match. 

Shame really after the brilliant player he was first time round.


----------



## paddyc (Jan 31, 2021)

Have to say Brighton do play some nice stuff at times. How did Connolly  not put that away !


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Have to say Brighton do play some nice stuff at times. How did Connolly  not put that away !
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree.
It has cost them games all season poor finishing.
Then one mistake and your beaten.


----------



## Slime (Jan 31, 2021)

I'm looking forward to Mourinho's interview.


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 31, 2021)

fundy said:



			enjoy Mustafi 

Click to expand...

I’d of taken Keane an Mina tbh 




Yeah things are that bad 😆


----------



## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm looking forward to Mourinho's interview.[/QUOTE

Pity Roy Keane is not on he would have laid into Spurs players 😂
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 31, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Think it’s got to the stage now Kane will have to have serious think if he wants to stay at Spurs as this team is going nowhere.

The only way we might keep him is he’s prone to getting his ankles injured a that might put of clubs off paying the big money for him.
		
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Strange you should mention Kane, as much as he is world class has he really played at the top level in Europe with Spurs on a regular basis. Plus when he finishes his career will he have a great number of trophies. Me and my lad were discussing this earlier. I then said the same about Grealish, he is Villa through and through. Will he stay or will he go. I can understand him staying or going. But will he want trophies. The unfortunate thing is both players will not go for anywhere near the value of pre Covid


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Strange you should mention Kane, as much as he is world class has he really played at the top level in Europe with Spurs on a regular basis. Plus when he finishes his career will he have a great number of trophies. Me and my lad were discussing this earlier. I then said the same about Grealish, he is Villa through and through. Will he stay or will he go. I can understand him staying or going. But will he want trophies. The unfortunate thing is both players will not go for anywhere near the value of pre Covid
		
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how good was Le Tissier?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2021)

fundy said:



			how good was Le Tissier?
		
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I always liked you 
although I’d have used shearer as the comparison.

Re tashys point. Kane won’t go for less than 100m. Levy wouldn’t let it.


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## IanM (Jan 31, 2021)

Jose has made Spurs even more Spursy


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## Slime (Jan 31, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I always liked you 
although I’d have used shearer as the comparison.

Re tashys point. Kane won’t go for less than 100m. *Levy wouldn’t let it.*

Click to expand...

At which point Kane starts running down his contract?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 31, 2021)

fundy said:



			Is it just me or is there a massive increase in players making snidey little stamps on the foot and ankle lately that get minimally punished? Or was i just not that aware of them before? Almost as the way games are reffed sides find new ways
		
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Players have been doing it for over 50 years to my knowledge. 

Revie's Leeds had two players who were particularly adept and neither of them were called Bremner, Charlton or Hunter.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2021)

Slime said:



			At which point Kane starts running down his contract?
		
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He’s already 27.
If he has 4 years left on his contract then I don’t think spurs will worry. Im not saying he will leave, but at the same time. If he stays fit he gives em their best chance of CL footy, that’s worth more than his sale.


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			He’s already 27.
If he has 4 years left on his contract then I don’t think spurs will worry. Im not saying he will leave, but at the same time. If he stays fit he gives em their best chance of CL footy, that’s worth more than his sale.
		
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This summer or next? Levy will cash his chips at some point


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

Brightons last 3 homes wins in the premier league have come in 2019,2020,2021


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2021)

Slime said:



			At which point Kane starts running down his contract?
		
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His contract runs until 2024, at which point he'll be around 30 I guess, with much of his career behind him. Someone will stump up the money before then. He could do a lot worse than go to City and be Aguero's replacement, they'd be unstoppable.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2021)

Well Mourino thinks the second half was much better, we were shocking in the first half, in the second half we weren’t much better.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			His contract runs until 2024, at which point he'll be around 30 I guess, with much of his career behind him. Someone will stump up the money before then. He could do a lot worse than go to City and be Aguero's replacement, they'd be unstoppable.
		
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With the amount of extra pens they’d get, he’d score 35 goals a season😉


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			With the amount of extra pens they’d get, he’d score 35 goals a season😉
		
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you need to net off Peps rotation and his dodgy ankles though


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			With the amount of extra pens they’d get, he’d score 35 goals a season😉
		
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Let's face it, they are crying out for someone who can actually score a pen as well. He ticks all the boxes.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2021)

We played well today, controlled the game in the 1st half and won it in the 2nd.

Salah showed why he’s our best player by a distance.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Strange you should mention Kane, as much as he is world class has he really played at the top level in Europe with Spurs on a regular basis. Plus when he finishes his career will he have a great number of trophies. Me and my lad were discussing this earlier. I then said the same about Grealish, he is Villa through and through. Will he stay or will he go. I can understand him staying or going. But will he want trophies. The unfortunate thing is both players will not go for anywhere near the value of pre Covid
		
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Yea big decision he has to make, short career,  ambitious, you wouldnt blame him if he moved on. 

As for Grealish can’t believe he didn’t go to a bigger club last window, you would think he would have to leave to push on his career.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2021)

fundy said:



			you need to net off Peps rotation and his dodgy ankles though 

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It won’t matter as City won’t be playing Thursday nights 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It won’t matter as City won’t be playing Thursday nights 😂😂😂
		
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that wont stop Pep lol


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## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I always liked you 
although I’d have used shearer as the comparison.

Re tashys point. Kane won’t go for less than 100m. Levy wouldn’t let it.
		
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100m might be to much of a gamble given his dodgy ankles.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 31, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			100m might be to much of a gamble given his dodgy ankles.
		
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one thing I will say re Kane, he seems to have massively improved as a footballer as against an out and out goal scorer.  As has been said, Levy would be adamant he gets a good figure for Kane should he ever go.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2021)

Question for the Spurs lot, has JM made Kane a better player now he’s got him playing with his back to goal a lot more?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			100m might be to much of a gamble given his dodgy ankles.
		
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If I we’re at city I’d take the risk. 

Aguero has never won the golden boot as he’s made of glass, but if Kane plays 25 league games. They win the title every season Imo.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Question for the Spurs lot, has JM made Kane a better player now he’s got him playing with his back to goal a lot more?
		
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Now that’s a good question Kane has definitely a different player this season and added a lot more to his game can’t think of    any players offhand that have been similar, I would give JM the credit in the change in his play, but I don’t like the fact that he has more touches in our own box than the oppositions.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			If I we’re at city I’d take the risk.

Aguero has never won the golden boot as he’s made of glass, but if Kane plays 25 league games. They win the title every season Imo.
		
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Your right the oil money wouldn’t be a problem for City.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2021)

On the plus side for Bale he will be able to play more golf and his course at his house in Wales is coming on nicely. 😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			A good few days for the reds results wise. A cb lined up. Alls well in the world again!
		
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LPool are winning again, Dave’s remembered his password.😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Strange you should mention Kane, as much as he is world class has he really played at the top level in Europe with Spurs on a regular basis. Plus when he finishes his career will he have a great number of trophies. Me and my lad were discussing this earlier. I then said the same about Grealish, he is Villa through and through. Will he stay or will he go. I can understand him staying or going. But will he want trophies. The unfortunate thing is both players will not go for anywhere near the value of pre Covid
		
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Is happiness measured by trophies? It's an interesting one, it depends what drives either player.


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## GG26 (Feb 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Is it just me or is there a massive increase in players making snidey little stamps on the foot and ankle lately that get minimally punished? Or was i just not that aware of them before? Almost as the way games are reffed sides find new ways
		
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Funnily enough was thinking the same thing over the weekend.  A couple I saw looked deliberate.


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## Orikoru (Feb 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Question for the Spurs lot, has JM made Kane a better player now he’s got him playing with his back to goal a lot more?
		
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It's impossible for us to say whether Jose has instructed that change or whether it's Kane himself evolving his game more as his partnership with Son has developed over 5 years. 


Lord Tyrion said:



			Is happiness measured by trophies? It's an interesting one, it depends what drives either player.
		
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I think Kane is kind of 50-50 about it. He keeps saying he definitely wants to win trophies, but I think he is desperate for Spurs to meet him in the middle on that as I don't think he wants to leave us. I think he would do so begrudgingly if it finally looks like it's not going to happen and he's 28, 29 and it will be his last chance to join a bigger club. The real interesting question for me is, we're in the League Cup final this season, probably won't win it but if we did, would he consider us being on track then as we'd won a trophy? Or would he just not count that one as so many fans seem not to. 

Someone used Shearer as a great comparison, didn't win anything with Newcastle but was happy to stay there and be the driving force at his boyhood team. Although he did win the league with Blackburn before all that. Le Tisser also a fantastic player who was happier being the focal point of his favourite team than going elsewhere to win trophies. How many modern players are like this though? Kane's attitude has always been so fiercely competitive that I do feel he'll leave in the next two years if we're still not looking like competing for the league. Which we almost certainly won't be.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We played well today, controlled the game in the 1st half and won it in the 2nd.

Salah showed why he’s our best player by a distance.
		
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Mane is really off the boil this year so far.. whats going on there!? He was class for you the past 2 years, but this year its the Salah show!


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## Bdill93 (Feb 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's impossible for us to say whether Jose has instructed that change or whether it's Kane himself evolving his game more as his partnership with Son has developed over 5 years.

I think Kane is kind of 50-50 about it. He keeps saying he definitely wants to win trophies, but I think he is desperate for Spurs to meet him in the middle on that as I don't think he wants to leave us. I think he would do so begrudgingly if it finally looks like it's not going to happen and he's 28, 29 and it will be his last chance to join a bigger club. The real interesting question for me is, we're in the League Cup final this season, probably won't win it but if we did, would he consider us being on track then as we'd won a trophy? Or would he just not count that one as so many fans seem not to.

Someone used Shearer as a great comparison, didn't win anything with Newcastle but was happy to stay there and be the driving force at his boyhood team. Although he did win the league with Blackburn before all that. Le Tisser also a fantastic player who was happier being the focal point of his favourite team than going elsewhere to win trophies. How many modern players are like this though? Kane's attitude has always been so fiercely competitive that I do feel he'll leave in the next two years if we're still not looking like competing for the league. Which we almost certainly won't be.
		
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Kanes an odd one, very much like Jack Grealish at Villa, captain of his boyhood club and best player by some margin - at what point does that not make him happy anymore? 

For Kane, if hes not winning a trophy this year, he needs to leave in my opinion. Entering the "last big move" window as hes in his late 20's, if you cant win under Poch or Jose, I doubt anyone else can come in and get them winning in a short time frame.

I've grown up always knowing man united to go out and buy the best english players avaliable. I firmly believe Sir Alex would have got Kane over the line at united a year or two ago. Hes what they actually need and have done since Rooney left. Ive said it for years too. 

 P.S I hate United, im just being honest.


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## Orikoru (Feb 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Kanes an odd one, very much like Jack Grealish at Villa, captain of his boyhood club and best player by some margin - at what point does that not make him happy anymore?

For Kane, if hes not winning a trophy this year, he needs to leave in my opinion. Entering the "last big move" window as hes in his late 20's, if you cant win under Poch or Jose, I doubt anyone else can come in and get them winning in a short time frame.

I've grown up always knowing man united to go out and buy the best english players avaliable. I firmly believe Sir Alex would have got Kane over the line at united a year or two ago. Hes what they actually need and have done since Rooney left. Ive said it for years too.

P.S I hate United, im just being honest.
		
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Kane isn't the captain though. Maybe we can offer him that to tempt him to stay, lol. United aren't the draw they were, he'd be wasting his time going there. Although they've improved they're still in transition. Joining City is the sensible option, he'd literally be the missing piece in the jigsaw, I can see them winning every trophy going with him in the side. Imagine his game now but instead of Son running off him, it's Sterling, Mahrez, Bernardo, Foden, Jesus if they play him off the left. Failing that, it would be a dumb move in terms of level, but I wouldn't rule out him joining Poch at PSG and easily winning 3 league titles in a row, ha. Real Madrid should take him, I can't believe they're still playing Benzema to be honest.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Kane isn't the captain though. Maybe we can offer him that to tempt him to stay, lol. United aren't the draw they were, he'd be wasting his time going there. Although they've improved they're still in transition. Joining City is the sensible option, he'd literally be the missing piece in the jigsaw, I can see them winning every trophy going with him in the side. Imagine his game now but instead of Son running off him, it's Sterling, Mahrez, Bernardo, Foden, Jesus if they play him off the left. Failing that, it would be a dumb move in terms of level, but I wouldn't rule out him joining Poch at PSG and easily winning 3 league titles in a row, ha. Real Madrid should take him, I can't believe they're still playing Benzema to be honest.
		
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Oh yeah, its Lloris isnt it? Always forget that - he is the England cap though so im letting myself off 

Thats my point really "Fergies united" aren't this current side - I just firmly believe that he would have been a united player had fergie still been there now.  

Hes a quality player for whoever he move's to, I hope that he goes abroad to be honest. Would be werid seeing him play for someone else in the prem - stranger things have happened though!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Kane isn't the captain though. Maybe we can offer him that to tempt him to stay, lol. United aren't the draw they were, he'd be wasting his time going there. Although they've improved they're still in transition. Joining City is the sensible option, he'd literally be the missing piece in the jigsaw, I can see them winning every trophy going with him in the side. Imagine his game now but instead of Son running off him, it's Sterling, Mahrez, Bernardo, Foden, Jesus if they play him off the left. Failing that, it would be a dumb move in terms of level, but I wouldn't rule out him joining Poch at PSG and easily winning 3 league titles in a row, ha. Real Madrid should take him, I can't believe they're still playing Benzema to be honest.
		
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I think RM have there sights on Mbappe. But agree he would fit in there. Wonder if Bale gives Kane any advice though.
Like I say, I see it both ways re Kane and Grealish. If they stay its no different to Messi. Apart from a trophy  cupboard that's rammed 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2021)

https://www.sportbible.com/football...8KJJgdbPGyFeejmPTbferX01nBsyZ12z4nZftl04bATOY

Good to see that players are speaking out in regards VAR ruining the sport


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## Foxholer (Feb 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.sportbible.com/football...8KJJgdbPGyFeejmPTbferX01nBsyZ12z4nZftl04bATOY

Good to see that players are speaking out in regards VAR ruining the sport
		
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So getting (non-) decisions correct is 'ruining the game'! Pah!
I seem to remember earlier posts (not specifically from you) about 'bad' decisions by refs 'spoiling the game'!
IMO, the only thing that's consistent is that fans think someone/something is 'ruining the game' when decisions don't go their way!


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## Foxholer (Feb 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Kane isn't the captain though. Maybe we can offer him that to tempt him to stay, lol. United aren't the draw they were, he'd be wasting his time going there. Although they've improved they're still in transition. Joining City is the sensible option, he'd literally be the missing piece in the jigsaw, I can see them winning every trophy going with him in the side. Imagine his game now but instead of Son running off him, it's Sterling, Mahrez, Bernardo, Foden, Jesus if they play him off the left. Failing that, it would be a dumb move in terms of level, but I wouldn't rule out him joining Poch at PSG and easily winning 3 league titles in a row, ha. Real Madrid should take him, I can't believe they're still playing Benzema to be honest.
		
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Kane's instinctive combination with Son is what is really the key. I doubt he'd have the same magic elsewhere, but would be happy to see it happen if he does move.


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## GB72 (Feb 1, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Kane's instinctive combination with Son is what is really the key. I doubt he'd have the same magic elsewhere, but would be happy to see it happen if he does move.
		
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OK, as said before, not a massive follower of football but it has always seemed to me that strikers find their perfect spot, team around them etc and are hard pushed to repeat that when they move on. Kane at Spurs is one, Vardy at Leicester, maybe even Ings at Southampton and a number of others. They find a team and a set up where they are scoring for fun and then assume that this will be the same at another club. Seem to be a number who have been OK before they join their current club, find a perfect set up for their style of play then, when they move on, expect more of the same rather than a return to how they were before.


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## Orikoru (Feb 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.sportbible.com/football...8KJJgdbPGyFeejmPTbferX01nBsyZ12z4nZftl04bATOY

Good to see that players are speaking out in regards VAR ruining the sport
		
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I agree in principle that footballers need to speak up, but hopefully slightly more articulately than that. It just sounded like he was moaning because he had a goal chalked off basically. I concede it's probably a language thing so hopefully other players back him up now! The point he was trying to make (I think) is the one I agree with the most - offsides should be judged by eye on the video replay, not by drawing lines on it. Then we can get back to 'level' actually existing and being onside.


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## Orikoru (Feb 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			OK, as said before, not a massive follower of football but it has always seemed to me that strikers find their perfect spot, team around them etc and are hard pushed to repeat that when they move on. Kane at Spurs is one, Vardy at Leicester, maybe even Ings at Southampton and a number of others. They find a team and a set up where they are scoring for fun and then assume that this will be the same at another club. Seem to be a number who have been OK before they join their current club, find a perfect set up for their style of play then, when they move on, expect more of the same rather than a return to how they were before.
		
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That's a fair point. Torres at Liverpool and then Chelsea springs to mind first and foremost. Or someone like Zaha failing at United then going back to Palace and being decent again. But perhaps the very best players can adapt to their new team and succeed anywhere? C.Ronaldo and Zlatan for example.


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## Foxholer (Feb 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			OK, as said before, not a massive follower of football but it has always seemed to me that strikers find their perfect spot, team around them etc and are hard pushed to repeat that when they move on. Kane at Spurs is one, Vardy at Leicester, maybe even Ings at Southampton and a number of others. They find a team and a set up where they are scoring for fun and then assume that this will be the same at another club. Seem to be a number who have been OK before they join their current club, find a perfect set up for their style of play then, when they move on, expect more of the same rather than a return to how they were before.
		
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I'm inclined to agree, though the Kane/Son combo is something quite magic!
And the 'problem' for those that move on (or consider it) is to realise that it'll take a little time to get the same 'instinct' that worked in one team to happen in another - regardless of the quality of player at the new club. And supporters of the club the've moved to can be very impatient!
Maybe this guy would be an exception, though I don't believe he's going anywhere! https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/55882674


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## GB72 (Feb 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That's a fair point. Torres at Liverpool and then Chelsea springs to mind first and foremost. Or someone like Zaha failing at United then going back to Palace and being decent again. But perhaps the very best players can adapt to their new team and succeed anywhere? C.Ronaldo and Zlatan for example.
		
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I think that is a fair point but I do not think that there are many that can fit into any team as those 2 have.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That's a fair point. Torres at Liverpool and then Chelsea springs to mind first and foremost. Or someone like Zaha failing at United then going back to Palace and being decent again. But perhaps the very best players can adapt to their new team and succeed anywhere? C.Ronaldo and Zlatan for example.
		
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Some teams will build their play around a player or buy a player that will fit the existing style perfectly. The problem comes when they buy a player and then try to alter what made them succesful in order to fit a different style. Square pegs + round holes etc. If you buy a player because they do X and Y then make them do W and Z why be surprised when they can't do it as well?

When a striker fits a style wonderfully well, Ings at Southampton, Vardy at Leicester are two stand outs, then it can transform a team.


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## sunshine (Feb 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Kane isn't the captain though. Maybe we can offer him that to tempt him to stay, lol. United aren't the draw they were, he'd be wasting his time going there. Although they've improved they're still in transition. Joining City is the sensible option, he'd literally be the missing piece in the jigsaw, I can see them winning every trophy going with him in the side. Imagine his game now but instead of Son running off him, it's Sterling, Mahrez, Bernardo, Foden, Jesus if they play him off the left. Failing that, it would be a dumb move in terms of level, but I wouldn't rule out him joining Poch at PSG and easily winning 3 league titles in a row, ha. Real Madrid should take him, I can't believe they're still playing Benzema to be honest.
		
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I can't imagine Harry Kane playing abroad. It's a lifestyle thing rather than for footballing reasons.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2021)

Well that’s an interesting deadline day for Liverpool

Two CB’s signing in one day 

Davies arrives for £2mil from Preston - contract was due to finish at the end of the season

Kabak signing from Schalke for an initial loan and then an option to buy at the end of the season.


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## fundy (Feb 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that’s an interesting deadline day for Liverpool

Two CB’s signing in one day

Davies arrives for £2mil from Preston - contract was due to finish at the end of the season

Kabak signing from Schalke for an initial loan and then an option to buy at the end of the season.
		
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3rd one still to come later


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			3rd one still to come later 

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Mustafi is on his way to Schalke to allow Kabak to come to us - looks like it’s just the two CBs

Davis plus either Kabak or if any issues Carmo


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## fundy (Feb 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mustafi is on his way to Schalke to allow Kabak to come to us - looks like it’s just the two CBs

Davis plus either Kabak or if any issues Carmo
		
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shame looked forward to watching him play for you  but at least hes going


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2021)

One for Arsenal fans. The young lad Willock looks like he is going to Newcastle on loan. What does he do? Is he any good?


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## fundy (Feb 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for Arsenal fans. The young lad Willock looks like he is going to Newcastle on loan. What does he do? Is he any good?
		
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runs around a lot, decent enough technically but a bit lightweight for the premier league when he has played, fared better in the Europa league where a bit more time

decent enough prospect but doesnt seem to have developed much the last few years (no real surprise at our place)


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			runs around a lot, decent enough technically but a bit lightweight for the premier league when he has played, fared better in the Europa league where a bit more time

decent enough prospect but doesnt seem to have developed much the last few years (no real surprise at our place)
		
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Sounds like a loan is a good move from Arsenal's point of view. He gets game time at someone else's risk and you see if he can improve given a run of games. 

Thanks for that. I'll be doing a transfer day WhatsApp with my son later and having an idea of what he is about will help us both as he is not exactly household.


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## sunshine (Feb 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for Arsenal fans. The young lad Willock looks like he is going to Newcastle on loan. What does he do? Is he any good?
		
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Mainly been used as a sub since he arrived last summer. Seems quite pacy, not really produced much yet, probably could do with a confidence boost. Scored his first goal in the win against Cardiff a couple of weeks ago, so maybe that will help him.

His older Matt brother plays for Gillingham. I believe he has a younger brother Joe but I don't know anything about him.

You are talking about Chris Willock aren't you?


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## paddyc (Feb 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for Arsenal fans. The young lad Willock looks like he is going to Newcastle on loan. What does he do? Is he any good?
		
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In a nutshell No imo.Lacks the quality Arsenal are looking for, so should fit in well at Newcastle.


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

5.4 for Saka


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## USER1999 (Feb 2, 2021)

Exciting game though.


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## USER1999 (Feb 2, 2021)

What a goal.


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

Long overdue  

Good stuff from Pepe


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## paddyc (Feb 2, 2021)

Get in always said he's class act young Pepe😁


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## USER1999 (Feb 2, 2021)

I am slowly coming round to Pepe. He is no 72m player, but that isn't his fault. He is however, not the dud that I maybe thought he was. I am OK with giving him more time.


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			I am slowly coming round to Pepe. He is no 72m player, but that isn't his fault. He is however, not the dud that I maybe thought he was. I am OK with giving him more time.
		
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Slowly but surely things are happening at a faster pace throughout the team (bar a couple of exceptions), he is definitely benefitting from this and looking far better


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

How on earth is Matt Ryan injured already????? What happens when players get to London colney lol


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

get out of the football club and take Willian with you ffs Clown


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## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2021)

I thought that was a harsh red but definite yellow and a pen. He's chasing the wolves attacker and running normally. He doesn't stick his leg out to whip him up. 

Harsh


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought that was a harsh red but definite yellow and a pen. He's chasing the wolves attacker and running normally. He doesn't stick his leg out to whip him up.

Harsh
		
Click to expand...

doesnt try and play the ball so as soon as he gives a foul it has to be red, youd think clown feet would know the rules by now the amount of times hes done it


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## paddyc (Feb 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			get out of the football club and take Willian with you ffs Clown
		
Click to expand...

What can you say!Never looked in trouble all half and now a mountain to climb. Was it my eyes cause I didn't see much in the way of contact from the Clown.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought that was a harsh red but definite yellow and a pen. He's chasing the wolves attacker and running normally. He doesn't stick his leg out to whip him up.

Harsh
		
Click to expand...

Walton just clarified that if he’d of gone for a tackle and fouled him it would be Yellow and Pen, but because he never tried to play the ball it’s Red and a Pen.🤷‍♂️


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2021)

paddyc said:



			What can you say!Never looked in trouble all half and now a mountain to climb. Was it my eyes cause I didn't see much in the way of contact from the Clown.
		
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His knee caught the attackers foot by accident.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			doesnt try and play the ball so as soon as he gives a foul it has to be red, youd think clown feet would know the rules by now the amount of times hes done it
		
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It's a stupid rule. He hasn't tried to play the ball nor tried to blatantly whip him. If he does that he gets a yellow and they still get the pen 🤷‍♂It's hilarious. 

As much as I'd like to blame Luiz, I dont think its his fault.


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## USER1999 (Feb 2, 2021)

Flipping heck, 47 minutes gone, I thought it was safe to go feed the cats, and get ready for the second half. How wrong can you be.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Walton just clarified that if he’d of gone for a tackle and fouled him it would be Yellow and Pen, but because he never tried to play the ball it’s Red and a Pen.🤷‍♂️
		
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I've just listened to mouth piece Walton, luckily I can remember his refereeing performances over the years. 

But Rules are Rules.


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's a stupid rule. He hasn't tried to play the ball nor tried to blatantly whip him. If he does that he gets a yellow and they still get the pen 🤷‍♂It's hilarious.

As much as I'd like to blame Luiz, I dont think its his fault.
		
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he doesnt get the benefit of the doubt here, whats that 3 straight reds in 18 mths?


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## USER1999 (Feb 2, 2021)

I love Keown saying Luiz needs to learn. He is 6 months (less?) from possible retirement, how much time is left?


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			I love Keown saying Luiz needs to learn. He is 6 months (less?) from possible retirement, how much time is left?
		
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lol no doubt well give a years extension this week


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## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2021)

What a goal.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			he doesnt get the benefit of the doubt here, whats that 3 straight reds in 18 mths?
		
Click to expand...

Where they all that harsh?

What annoys me is that’s a red card but blatantly pulling a player back to stop an attack is a yellow?


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## Rlburnside (Feb 2, 2021)

Wonder strike what a goal that cheered me up a little


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

clown disease is catching lol

Runarsson in nets next game too oh joy


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## USER1999 (Feb 2, 2021)

Now Leno. Probably. Jeez, this is a stuffstorm.


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## paddyc (Feb 2, 2021)

We have another clown


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## paddyc (Feb 2, 2021)

Was never happy  when we let Martinez go to villa.better keeper than Leno without a doubt


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Was never happy  when we let Martinez go to villa.better keeper than Leno without a doubt
		
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Hindsight seems to agree with you, hard to judge based on him playing less than 20 games for us in 10 years. Lot made of his form from a very small sample


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 2, 2021)

Interesting stat from BBC Sport....

"Arsenal have received nine Premier League red cards under Mikel Arteta. No other club has had more than three PL sendings off since Arteta took charge of his first match at the Gunners (from Boxing Day 2019 onwards)."


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## USER1999 (Feb 2, 2021)

I am fine with Leno. This storm started with the idiot clown getting sent off. Anything after that is just fluff. Leno is the better keeper.

It's a shame, as it was a good game, and Arsenal were playing some nice footy.

This has to be the final nail in Crustys coffin, surely. No way back, no newcontract. Otherwise all the good that has been done I this transfer window has been a waste of time.


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

Horror tackle that


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2021)

What a way to mark your first start - sent off inside two minutes. Bit over-keen to impress maybe.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 2, 2021)

[


Orikoru said:



			What a way to mark your first start - sent off inside two minutes. Bit over-keen to impress maybe. 

Click to expand...

Theres a quote on the BBC site saying he put a transfer request during the Jan window which was turned down. Could well be on his way now.


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			[


Theres a quote on the BBC site saying he put a transfer request during the Jan window which was turned down. Could well be on his way now.
		
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Really? That's a bit strange, I thought he was only a youngster just breaking through.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			[


Theres a quote on the BBC site saying he put a transfer request during the Jan window which was turned down. Could well be on his way now.
		
Click to expand...

Defoe did that when we went down in 2003

Transfer request, denied so got sent off 3 times in 10 games


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Defoe did that when we went down in 2003

Transfer request, denied so got sent off 3 times in 10 games
		
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its called the reverse Luiz


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## SaintHacker (Feb 2, 2021)

Ouch. Wish I'd stayed on at work...


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2021)

I don't think there was anything wrong with the Southampton goal. He was level and it was a cracking finish. Sick of saying it but get VAR in the bin.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 2, 2021)




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## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



View attachment 34829

Click to expand...

Where’s the offside?


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## SaintHacker (Feb 2, 2021)

How? How is it possible to get that wrong? For a professional official earning upwards of £80k a year with years of training under their belts, to get something so obvious wrong?


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			How? How is it possible to get that wrong? For a professional official earning upwards of £80k a year with years of training under their belts, to get something so obvious wrong?
		
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I don't understand how they can look it for like three minutes and then decide he's 'clear and obviously' offside. He's onside, he's level with two of the defenders. It's a farce.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			How? How is it possible to get that wrong? For a professional official earning upwards of £80k a year with years of training under their belts, to get something so obvious wrong?
		
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Regardless of what he earns that’s a complete balls up.


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## Slime (Feb 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't understand how they can look it for like three minutes and then decide he's *'clear and obviously'* offside. He's onside, he's level with two of the defenders. It's a farce.
		
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'Clear and obvious', I believe, is just for subjective calls, offside is objective.
It's either offside or not.


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			'Clear and obvious', I believe, is just for subjective calls, offside is objective.
*It's either offside or not*.
		
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except when its not clear lol


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## Slime (Feb 2, 2021)

Stunning finish from McDominate.


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

5.8 Martial


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2021)

That's definitely a dive from Martial. Whatever contact there was, he was already half way to the floor. And I can't even see the contact to be honest.


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

Arsenal 2 Saints 2 lol


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			'Clear and obvious', I believe, is just for subjective calls, offside is objective.
It's either offside or not.
		
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Yeah and this one was not!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Defoe did that when we went down in 2003

Transfer request, denied so got sent off 3 times in 10 games
		
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😳 and that I never knew


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			5.8 Martial
		
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There was contact so he was "entitled" to go down.


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## Slime (Feb 2, 2021)

Soft penalty and ridiculous red card.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			😳 and that I never knew
		
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He claims he didn't on purpose and that he was targeted by refs and players and that his record since proves he isn't dirty 

More like his record since proves he did on purpose lol ..


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2021)

Saints not happy with sharing the record score want 2/3rds of it haha


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2021)

Hasenhuttl must be the first manager ever to lose 9-0 twice and still keep his job. (Assuming he will keep his job...)


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## pauljames87 (Feb 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Saints not happy with sharing the record score want 2/3rds of it haha
		
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Least people can stop talking about the 9-0 to Leicester now 😂


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## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Hasenhuttl must be the first manager ever to lose 9-0 twice and still keep his job. (Assuming he will keep his job...)
		
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Sacking him after this would be suicidal imo.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 2, 2021)

Interesting that the saints player who was sent off for the non challenge was heard in the tunnel saying “ martial said it’s not a foul”. According to MOTD.
Reason I say non challenge, if the Saints player had tried to tackle Martial and fouled him, it’s just a yellow. Coz he didn’t and tried to get out of the way it’s a red. Where’s the common sense in that. Wouldn’t it be more logical to have it the other way round.
The games gone to pot.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Hasenhuttl must be the first manager ever to lose 9-0 twice and still keep his job. (Assuming he will keep his job...)
		
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No one is getting sacked. When we got done by Leicester we were in a far worse position. Tonight was just a bad nignt at the office. Half a team up against a full strength united, plus mike dean at his awful best and stevie wonder running the var, it was always going to be a big utd win. 
We're only 4 points off spurs in 6th, players coming back from injury and a decent new signing, tonight was just one of those nights


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## Orikoru (Feb 3, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			No one is getting sacked. When we got done by Leicester we were in a far worse position. Tonight was just a bad nignt at the office. Half a team up against a full strength united, plus mike dean at his awful best and stevie wonder running the var, it was always going to be a big utd win.
We're only 4 points off spurs in 6th, players coming back from injury and a decent new signing, tonight was just one of those nights
		
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I know? I didn't say he should be sacked, I said I'm assuming he won't be. Might just make an interesting quiz question in years to come... which manager lost 9-0 twice in the Premier League, ha.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 3, 2021)

You know I watched Utd v Saints last night on MOT. I felt Utd played to there full potential for the first time this year. Yes I know sendings off changed things. But maybe there is a bit more belief in what they can actually do from an attacking sense.
That said, the two decisions re offside for Saints and the martial penalty, with subsequent sending off and endorses what’s gone wrong with the game, why I have fallen out of love with the game and why I will not re new my season ticket. It just seems that after every game we are discussing decisions rather than the “ beautiful “ game players and teams. How is that right.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			You know I watched Utd v Saints last night on MOT. I felt Utd played to there full potential for the first time this year. Yes I know sendings off changed things. But maybe there is a bit more belief in what they can actually do from an attacking sense.
That said, the two decisions re offside for Saints and the martial penalty, with subsequent sending off and endorses what’s gone wrong with the game, why I have fallen out of love with the game and why I will not re new my season ticket. It just seems that after every game we are discussing decisions rather than the “ beautiful “ game players and teams. How is that right.
		
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Yes totally agree with you.
But giving VAR more time is a common theme, but it seems to be getting worse the more time goes on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2021)

Nice to see the standard of the current England keepers being maintained.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 3, 2021)

Lingard looking sharp so far. Been impressed with his movement on and off the ball.

Bowen on the bench getting a well earned rest and he has stepped in nicely without losing that pace 

Just what we needed 

Shame no option to buy 

Finally puts noble off the bench so defo won't see him


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## pauljames87 (Feb 3, 2021)

Should have been a pen on soucek 

Still no pens this season for us

But defo pen 

One day lol


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## Beezerk (Feb 3, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lingard looking sharp so far. Been impressed with his movement on and off the ball.
		
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Give him a while, his ego will kick in and he'll start running down blind alleys with the ball


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## fundy (Feb 3, 2021)

Any Martinez fans about tonight?


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 3, 2021)

Well done to Brighton.
Made us look very ordinary.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a result for Sheff UTD 😂😂
		
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What a result for Brighton 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

(Sorry, didn't think two emojis was enough)


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## hairball_89 (Feb 3, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well done to Brighton.
Made us look very ordinary.
		
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Nah mate, "we're back" apparently!

Was on the cards from minute 1. No tempo. No pace. No urgency. Awful.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			What a result for Brighton 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

(Sorry, didn't think two emojis was enough)
		
Click to expand...

It was indeed and deservedly so - they were outstanding and we were flat


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 3, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Nah mate, "we're back" apparently!

Was on the cards from minute 1. No tempo. No pace. No urgency. Awful.
		
Click to expand...

Were to slow.
Brighton actually came out and played but we were that slow we let them back in their shape then couldn’t get through.
Subs never changed any thing.


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## fundy (Feb 3, 2021)

#KloppOut seems busy again tonight 

In other news West Ham, awful against Liverpool the other day were excellent against Villa tonight


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## pauljames87 (Feb 3, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Give him a while, his ego will kick in and he'll start running down blind alleys with the ball 

Click to expand...

Can't argue with 2 goals on your debut 

That will do

Keep it up


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## hairball_89 (Feb 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			#KloppOut seems busy again tonight 

...
		
Click to expand...

Absolute idiots. Anyone that looks at this squad and wants Jurgen replaced needs to take a long walk, and then carry on some more!


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 3, 2021)

Does make me laugh when you see what the two lads who were sent off for not making a tackle ,and Eddersons tackle today was a yellow.
The rules are in need of a change imo.


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## MegaSteve (Feb 4, 2021)

Being a Gooner, I am not normally pleased to see anything remotely positive for ManU...
But, I have to note, it was a delight to see Jesse Lingard perform so well for the 'ammers...


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Does make me laugh when you see what the two lads who were sent off for not making a tackle ,and Eddersons tackle today was a yellow.
The rules are in need of a change imo.
		
Click to expand...

I did not see the game live and was following it on BBC live, basically txt reporting. As soon as I saw ederson booked, I thought that’s gonna look interesting because he don’t do normal. When I saw his second tackle I thought yup. Deffo yellow, in fact it looked like  Fernandinho has taught him to tackle. Deffo yellow But the two from the night before were shockers.

But again who makes these rules re a straight red for trying avoid a tackle?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I did not see the game live and was following it on BBC live, basically txt reporting. As soon as I saw ederson booked, I thought that’s gonna look interesting because he don’t do normal. When I saw his second tackle I thought yup. Deffo yellow, in fact it looked like  Fernandinho has taught him to tackle. Deffo yellow But the two from the night before were shockers.

*But again who makes these rules re a straight red for trying avoid a tackle?*

Click to expand...

That’s why the word “Intent” is not in the rules, how easy would it be to defend a player by saying it was an accident or he never meant it, when in reality, they know if they can’t reach the ball they could “accidentally” touch an opponent and not mean to foul them. So we crucify forwards when they obviously dive, but want to stick up for a defender when they cause a player to fall over. How do we prove which one is telling the truth.

Plus, it’s only a red card when denying a clear goal scoring opportunity, any other scenario it would be yellow at most.


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			But again who makes these rules re a straight red for trying avoid a tackle?
		
Click to expand...

Well it's not that. If they red card him they're saying he wasn't trying to win the ball, but was deliberately holding the player back or trying to prevent him getting to the ball. The ones we saw the other day were very dubious in this respect, but that's what they've judged. 

I thought Martial dived yet the defender got a red. Must be the least contact there has ever been in history to receive a red card.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			#KloppOut seems busy again tonight 

In other news West Ham, awful against Liverpool the other day were excellent against Villa tonight
		
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We'll only worry when our fan Tv starts getting watched by 90% other fans, and only 10% of ours.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well it's not that. If they red card him they're saying he wasn't trying to win the ball, but was deliberately holding the player back or trying to prevent him getting to the ball. The ones we saw the other day were very dubious in this respect, but that's what they've judged.

I thought Martial dived yet the defender got a red. Must be the least contact there has ever been in history to receive a red card.
		
Click to expand...

Sad thing for me was.
What sort of player dives when he is clean through on goal and his team are already 5/6-0 in the lead.
Probably knowing the defender will get a red.
That’s where VAR should do it’s job but won’t go against a referee.
It was a clear and obvious mistake by the ref imo.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well it's not that. If they red card him they're saying he wasn't trying to win the ball, but was deliberately holding the player back or trying to prevent him getting to the ball. The ones we saw the other day were very dubious in this respect, but that's what they've judged.

I thought Martial dived yet the defender got a red. Must be the least contact there has ever been in history to receive a red card.
		
Click to expand...

"Trying to not make a tackle" is one of the oldest tricks in the defenders' repertoire. Usually  accompanied by the hands in the air  surrender position.

"Look ref I never touched him!"

An attacker running at speed  into the box may only need a slight contact on his foot or ankle, a small clip with a knee or whatever to lose his balance and  thus his effort on goal. 

It's been going on for years and usually the defender gets away with it. 

Hence the outrage when one of them gets caught. Luiz has been in the game a long time, he knew what he was doing.


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sad thing for me was.
*What sort of player dives when he is clean through on goal and his team are already 5/6-0 in the lead.*
Probably knowing the defender will get a red.
That’s where VAR should do it’s job but won’t go against a referee.
It was a clear and obvious mistake by the ref imo.
		
Click to expand...

He took a heavy touch and the ball was going through to the keeper which is why he dived. That's also another reason it shouldn't have been a red! Not denying a goalscoring opportunity as he never would have got there.


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			"Trying to not make a tackle" is one of the oldest tricks in the defenders' repertoire. Usually  accompanied by the hands in the air  surrender position.

"Look ref I never touched him!"

An attacker running at speed  into the box may only need a slight contact on his foot or ankle, a small clip with a knee or whatever to lose his balance and  thus his effort on goal.

It's been going on for years and usually the defender gets away with it.

Hence the outrage when one of them gets caught. Luiz has been in the game a long time, he knew what he was doing.
		
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I don't have any sympathy for Luiz, he's known for being a clumsy idiot these days, and I only saw that incident once. I thought Bednarek's one was well harsh, not even a penalty for me.

On the subject of Bednarek, anyone have him in their fantasy team? He got -7 points! An own goal, a red card, and nine conceded.   Has to be the worst individual points score in the history of FPL.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

My lad was saying the other day that when the guy was given a straight red for the “ non tackle/ tackle “ on Martial he should not of been sent of because of the triple whammy effect, being, sending off, penalty and a ban. If that’s the case is a non tackle exempt from the triple punishment or what is the actual ruling.🤔


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			My lad was saying the other day that when the guy was given a straight red for the “ non tackle/ tackle “ on Martial he should not of been sent of because of the triple whammy effect, being, sending off, penalty and a ban. If that’s the case is a non tackle exempt from the triple punishment or what is the actual ruling.🤔
		
Click to expand...

That only applies if you were trying to win the ball - if it's a penalty you'll only get a yellow card. If they decide that you weren't trying to win the ball and you were just fouling him on purpose, then it's still a red card.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That only applies if you were trying to win the ball - if it's a penalty you'll only get a yellow card. If they decide that you weren't trying to win the ball and you were just fouling him on purpose, then it's still a red card.
		
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If that is the case he might as well of wiped him out bigstyle so Martial could of had a proper girlie scream and just got a yellow.
Bednarek is either a pudding or one of the most unlucky players to of get sent off.


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If that is the case he might as well of wiped him out bigstyle so Martial could of had a proper girlie scream and just got a yellow.
Bednarek is either a pudding or one of the most unlucky players to of get sent off.
		
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As I said already I didn't even think it was a penalty let alone a red card. Stupid decision. On the slow motion replay you can see Martial starts to dive, then as he falls next to Bednarek their legs brush together - and they've deemed that a deliberate foul and sent him off. Absolutely incredible that a referee can watch that footage and reach that conclusion. 

Even the people who were most staunchly in favour of VAR and believed it would cut out poor decisions must be eating their words and feeling a bit silly by now. If anything it has simply highlighted the bad decisions with a bigger magnifying glass than ever before.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As I said already I didn't even think it was a penalty let alone a red card. Stupid decision. On the slow motion replay you can see Martial starts to dive, then as he falls next to Bednarek their legs brush together - and they've deemed that a deliberate foul and sent him off. Absolutely incredible that a referee can watch that footage and reach that conclusion.

Even the people who were most staunchly in favour of VAR and believed it would cut out poor decisions must be eating their words and feeling a bit silly by now. If anything it has simply highlighted the bad decisions with a bigger magnifying glass than ever before.
		
Click to expand...

Agree.
The more VAR is used the worse the decisions are getting.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As I said already I didn't even think it was a penalty let alone a red card. Stupid decision. On the slow motion replay you can see Martial starts to dive, then as he falls next to Bednarek their legs brush together - and they've deemed that a deliberate foul and sent him off. Absolutely incredible that a referee can watch that footage and reach that conclusion.

Even the people who were most staunchly in favour of VAR and believed it would cut out poor decisions must be eating their words and feeling a bit silly by now. If anything it has simply highlighted the bad decisions with a bigger magnifying glass than ever before.
		
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Disagree with your last paragraph, when was the last time a correct VAR decision caused outrage? Never, but I’d put money on it they’ve got more right than wrong.

Totally agree it’s got a long way to go, but the most controversial VAR decisions tend to be when players cheat, how about we get them to stop cheating and VAR would be used less.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			We'll only worry when our fan Tv starts getting watched by 90% other fans, and only 10% of ours. 

Click to expand...


never seen it, only heard what was on it from their number 1 fan Stu


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 4, 2021)

Back to more important things. Everton won, DCL got back on the scoresheet . Liverpool lost to Brighton 

A bit tribal but makes a nice change from VAR 

Another doff of the cap to West Ham, what a season they are having.


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Disagree with your last paragraph, when was the last time a correct VAR decision caused outrage? Never, but I’d put money on it they’ve got more right than wrong.

Totally agree it’s got a long way to go, but the most controversial VAR decisions tend to be when players cheat, how about we get them to stop cheating and VAR would be used less.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't say they don't get any right. But people argued as if it would eradicate poor decisions. I think the number of good and bad decisions is roughly the same as it was before - VAR just takes longer. Or at best estimate there's only 5 or 10% more correct decisions - but it takes 300% of the time to get there.

Your last sentence - complete pie in the sky stuff.


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## SteveW86 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't have any sympathy for Luiz, he's known for being a clumsy idiot these days, and I only saw that incident once. I thought Bednarek's one was well harsh, not even a penalty for me.

On the subject of Bednarek, anyone have him in their fantasy team? He got -7 points! An own goal, a red card, and nine conceded.   Has to be the worst individual points score in the history of FPL.
		
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Just be glad you didn’t triple captain him


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back to more important things. Everton won, DCL got back on the scoresheet . Liverpool lost to Brighton 

Click to expand...

I was trying to frame that in a Spurs reference, I'm not sure how we still managed to lose to Liverpool in their current form - but then we also lost 1-0 to Brighton, so who knows.


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Just be glad you didn’t triple captain him
View attachment 34873

Click to expand...

That's just a mental decision at any time. Why would you ever do that??


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## hairball_89 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I was trying to frame that in a Spurs reference, *I'm not sure how we still managed to lose to Liverpool in their current form* - but then we also lost 1-0 to Brighton, so who knows. 

Click to expand...

You and me, both!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I was trying to frame that in a Spurs reference, I'm not sure how we still managed to lose to Liverpool in their current form - but then we also lost 1-0 to Brighton, so who knows. 

Click to expand...

If you take City out of the equation, for the past 2-3 months anyway, then pretty much every team are having higgledy piggledy results. It certainly makes it messy for people who like a bet / bookies etc.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you take City out of the equation, for the past 2-3 months anyway, then pretty much every team are having higgledy piggledy results. It certainly makes it messy for people who like a bet / bookies etc.
		
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Yes, I'm wondering when people will start to say it's the worst league ever, like last year.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, I'm wondering when people will start to say it's the worst league ever, like last year.

Click to expand...

Ah, but last year WAS the worst league ever 

I don't see things settling down until we have full stadiums again. Empty grounds just mess with players heads and keeping consistency and high performance is very tough. It makes it fun for those outside the top 2-3, less predictable.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I didn't say they don't get any right. But people argued as if it would eradicate poor decisions. I think the number of good and bad decisions is roughly the same as it was before - VAR just takes longer. Or at best estimate there's only 5 or 10% more correct decisions - but it takes 300% of the time to get there.

Your last sentence - complete pie in the sky stuff.
		
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I agree it’s pie in the sky, but it’s a bigger issue than VAR and has a bigger impact.

Easier to keep blaming the laws and Officials


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, I'm wondering when people will start to say it's the worst league ever, like last year.

Click to expand...

As soon as yous regain top spot.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That's just a mental decision at any time. Why would you ever do that??
		
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Maybe on a full back who gets forward and is your only player playing twice that week

Why on earth would you do against man United 

Then my head to head this week I've won because he captained the villa keeper


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2021)

Just watched The Three Kings about Stein ,Shankly and Busby, wonder what they would think about var, one old black and white clip that Stein said “football without fans was nothing” was quite chilling. 

Good watch.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back to more important things. Everton won, DCL got back on the scoresheet . Liverpool lost to Brighton 

A bit tribal but makes a nice change from VAR 

Another doff of the cap to West Ham, what a season they are having.
		
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Nothing to see here people lol as you were 

#undertheradar


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As I said already I didn't even think it was a penalty let alone a red card. Stupid decision. On the slow motion replay you can see Martial starts to dive, then as he falls next to Bednarek their legs brush together - and they've deemed that a deliberate foul and sent him off. Absolutely incredible that a referee can watch that footage and reach that conclusion.

Even the people who were most staunchly in favour of VAR and believed it would cut out poor decisions must be eating their words and feeling a bit silly by now. If anything it has simply highlighted the bad decisions with a bigger magnifying glass than ever before.
		
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maybe Martial dived because he didn’t want a rollicking off Pogba for not diving 😳


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

Maureen has started early with the mind games.
Quote
Jose Mourinho says it is not "difficult to coach" at former club Chelsea as his Tottenham side prepare to host Thomas Tuchel's Blues.
Flippen eck Mo, it’s only a mid table clash not the champs league final. 😉


----------



## fundy (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Maureen has started early with the mind games.
Quote
Jose Mourinho says it is not "difficult to coach" at former club Chelsea as his Tottenham side prepare to host Thomas Tuchel's Blues.
Flippen eck Mo, it’s only a mid table clash not the champs league final. 😉
		
Click to expand...


Mourinhos still suffering from the Brighton game


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I was trying to frame that in a Spurs reference, I'm not sure how we still managed to lose to Liverpool in their current form - but then we also lost 1-0 to Brighton, so who knows. 

Click to expand...

Liverpool were just better on the day.
You lost your best player in the game.
Your form is not much better than ours.
Jose is your manager.
That’s four


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## pauljames87 (Feb 4, 2021)

How can Southampton player get his red overturned but not Luiz? They were the same thing!!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			How can Southampton player get his red overturned but not Luiz? They were the same thing!!
		
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As has been said before, what have they seen to overturn it, that the ref never saw to confirm it was a penalty and sending off. 🤔


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## pauljames87 (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			As has been said before, what have they seen to overturn it, that the ref never saw to confirm it was a penalty and sending off. 🤔
		
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Think was pen but not sending off tbh


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2021)

They really do want to kill the golden goose dont they

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...fety-net-for-europe-s-biggest-clubs-f6d9h0rgc


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			They really do want to kill the golden goose dont they

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...fety-net-for-europe-s-biggest-clubs-f6d9h0rgc

Click to expand...

so apart from oil money, how would one manage to get to the top table. Boils my tiddle it does.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			so apart from oil money, how would one manage to get to the top table. Boils my tiddle it does.
		
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Only thing that annoys me about the champions League as it is... Is that it's not champions

Should be champions of each country's top league 

Plus domestic cup winners 

So League cup, FA cup, league 

Only winners no runners up


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## Kellfire (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			so apart from oil money, how would one manage to get to the top table. Boils my tiddle it does.
		
Click to expand...

Erm. You do know why City are successful, right?


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## Imurg (Feb 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Only thing that annoys me about the champions League as it is... Is that it's not champions

Should be champions of each country's top league

Plus domestic cup winners

So League cup, FA cup, league

Only winners no runners up
		
Click to expand...

Runners up go into the Loser's League


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Only thing that annoys me about the champions League as it is... Is that it's not champions

Should be champions of each country's top league

Plus domestic cup winners

So League cup, FA cup, league

Only winners no runners up
		
Click to expand...

That ship sailed 30 years ago 

Whilst it’s not only the champions it’s a competition that has evolved to ensure the European Super League wasnt created.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			How can Southampton player get his red overturned but not Luiz? They were the same thing!!
		
Click to expand...

Because Martial dived .


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Only thing that annoys me about the champions League as it is... Is that it's not champions

Should be champions of each country's top league

Plus domestic cup winners

So League cup, FA cup, league

Only winners no runners up
		
Click to expand...

But again it was to protect the elite. Ave a feeling that eventually it don’t matter what UEFA do, an elite league will be formed. Purely on the basis of greed.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Because Martial dived .
		
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i wonder if there would ever come a time where retrospective bans come in for diving. That said you would hope it was picked up on VAR.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			But again it was to protect the elite. Ave a feeling that eventually it don’t matter what UEFA do, an elite league will be formed. Purely on the basis of greed.
		
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Will cost the fans who go to away games a few Bob.
Plus another pay per view channel.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			i wonder if there would ever come a time where retrospective bans come in for diving. That said you would hope it was picked up on VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Only seen MOTD .
Did the ref have a look on the monitor?
This is one of the jobs VAR was brought in for.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2021)

Can’t see us getting a win tonight, 2 recent drab  defeats coming up against a Chelsea team with a new manager, will we show a bit more passion and flair. 

It’s going to be a long night.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			But again it was to protect the elite. Ave a feeling that eventually it don’t matter what UEFA do, an elite league will be formed. Purely on the basis of greed.
		
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Which includes your own club who have spent millions to reach that “elite” league and continue to spend millions desperate to win the elite competition so that the club might be classed alongside the great top European clubs


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Can’t see us getting a win tonight, 2 recent drab  defeats coming up against a Chelsea team with a new manager, will we show a bit more passion and flair.

It’s going to be a long night.
		
Click to expand...


looks a better line up with Vinicus up front, playing Son there last couple of games has left you without Kane and Son! Might be vulnerable out wide mind.....


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## GG26 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't have any sympathy for Luiz, he's known for being a clumsy idiot these days, and I only saw that incident once. I thought Bednarek's one was well harsh, not even a penalty for me.

On the subject of Bednarek, anyone have him in their fantasy team? He got -7 points! An own goal, a red card, and nine conceded.   Has to be the worst individual points score in the history of FPL.
		
Click to expand...

I had Bednarek in my fantasy team, but fortunately on the bench.  Yesterday I was just hoping that Konsa started for Villa to save me the 7 points through Bednarek coming off of the bench.  Also, had Leno as my keeper!


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			looks a better line up with Vinicus up front, playing Son there last couple of games has left you without Kane and Son! Might be vulnerable out wide mind.....
		
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Does look more balanced line up, but after the last 2 games I’m not hopeful, I just hope we are more proactive and don’t sit back to much.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Only seen MOTD .
Did the ref have a look on the monitor?
This is one of the jobs VAR was brought in for.
		
Click to expand...

He did, and oddly enough I think the first person to approach the ref after he looked at the screen and was walking to the box was Maguire. Who looked a bit nervous re what the decision was.


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Does look more balanced line up, but after the last 2 games I’m not hopeful, I just hope we are more proactive and don’t sit back to much.
		
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Might as well hope for pigs to fly! Jose doesn't want to lose to Chelsea, he'll take nil nil all day. Shame we can't keep a clean sheet really.




Tashyboy said:



			i wonder if there would ever come a time where retrospective bans come in for diving. That said you would hope it was picked up on VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Another issue is - if they've overturned the ban then they're saying the VAR official(s) AND the referee both got it wrong. So will they be reprimanded? Making a mistake pre-VAR days was absolutely understandable from the officials because it's a difficult job and they would obviously miss things. Making a mistake when there's two of them reviewing video footage for three minutes? Unforgivable.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which includes your own club who have spent millions to reach that “elite” league and continue to spend millions desperate to win the elite competition so that the club might be classed alongside the great top European clubs
		
Click to expand...

The oil money clubs will never have the same respect as the other English clubs that have won the top prize in Europe 👍


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2021)

This is crap shouldn’t have to watch football like this. 😡


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			This is crap shouldn’t have to watch football like this. 😡
		
Click to expand...

Oh was there some football? I must have just missed that.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			The oil money clubs will never have the same respect as the other English clubs that have won the top prize in Europe 👍
		
Click to expand...

Respect from who 🤔


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55941213

No idea how they are going to get around this - heard that RP may look to play the home game in a stadium in the UK


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Respect from who 🤔
		
Click to expand...

The amount of oil money City and Chelsea have spent to win the trophy’s will never have the respect of most football fans imo.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55941213

No idea how they are going to get around this - heard that RP may look to play the home game in a stadium in the UK
		
Click to expand...


same way Arsenals Europa game will be reputedly, single leg in a neutral venue. its that or they delay the european comps


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			same way Arsenals Europa game will be reputedly, single leg in a neutral venue. its that or they delay the european comps
		
Click to expand...

Don’t know why but they aren’t proposing single leg in the CL ? 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t know why but they aren’t proposing single leg in the CL ? 🤷‍♂️
		
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not sure theyre going to have any choice


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

Why is Sissoko still on the pitch? We're losing the game and he offers precisely nothing. I don't understand starting Ndombele at number 10 either, he should be alongside Hojbjerg to start some attacks from deeper. And then we could play an actual number 10. It's surprise we create nothing when the players bringing out of defence are Sissoko, Aurier and Davies. Dear me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			not sure theyre going to have any choice
		
Click to expand...

From the article I have read the home team will have to forfeit - all seems mental ,


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			From the article I have read the home team will have to forfeit - all seems mental ,
		
Click to expand...

farcical if thats the case, there again its UEFA, hard to expect any different


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## USER1999 (Feb 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			farcical if thats the case, there again its UEFA, hard to expect any different
		
Click to expand...

Surely it's only fair that the richer club should be able to offer a bung to go through? I can't see any fairer way.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2021)

been a while since West Ham were the best side in London


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 4, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Surely it's only fair that the richer club should be able to offer a bung to go through? I can't see any fairer way.
		
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Would be brilliant TV as well. Man City v PSG in the semi final with a live count off of the billions of each owner to see who goes through to the final.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			The amount of oil money City and Chelsea have spent to win the trophy’s will never have the respect of most football fans imo.
		
Click to expand...

And yet we are to respect and organisation ( UEFA)  that Is looking after the elitist.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2021)

You only have to look at what’s happening in Australia to realize perhaps it’s not a good idea to have teams traveling all over Europe. I would have liked to see the 6 nations cancelled as well. 

We all liked to watch football ( well maybe not after tonight’s game) but more important things going on at the moment.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			And yet we are to respect and organisation ( UEFA)  that Is looking after the elitist.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand that, not much respect for UEFA from anyone I know


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## pauljames87 (Feb 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			been a while since West Ham were the best side in London 

Click to expand...

Since sky football began we have never finished above arsenal .


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2021)

José out. That's enough I'm afraid. His reputation is a manager that wins games 1-0, but our defence was never good enough, and we don't create anything, that's only going to lose you games 1-0.

We're nothing without Kane at the minute. We can't play the ball out of defence when you're looking at players like Aurier, Sissoko and Davies to do it. Ndombele needs to be deeper to make things happen. Reguilon was a big miss as well. Earlier in the season it looked we had made progress but now we're right back to where we were when José started. Dier looked like he'd improved - today back to being brain dead. We were creating goals for fun - take Kane out of the team today and we're completely useless. I don't understand what his actual plan is. I didn't mind the defensiveness against City, Liverpool, it's sensible. But then we don't get out of the habit and play that way against Brighton, and Fulham. It's nonsense.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			José out. That's enough I'm afraid. His reputation is a manager that wins games 1-0, but our defence was never good enough, and we don't create anything, that's only going to lose you games 1-0.

We're nothing without Kane at the minute. We can't play the ball out of defence when you're looking at players like Aurier, Sissoko and Davies to do it. Ndombele needs to be deeper to make things happen. Reguilon was a big miss as well. Earlier in the season it looked we had made progress but now we're right back to where we were when José started. Dier looked like he'd improved - today back to being brain dead. We were creating goals for fun - take Kane out of the team today and we're completely useless. I don't understand what his actual plan is. I didn't mind the defensiveness against City, Liverpool, it's sensible. But then we don't get out of the habit and play that way against Brighton, and Fulham. It's nonsense.
		
Click to expand...

He's getting a free pass at the moment, I know what it would be like if there was a full house, can't try on like this.


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## USER1999 (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			José out. That's enough I'm afraid. His reputation is a manager that wins games 1-0, but our defence was never good enough, and we don't create anything, that's only going to lose you games 1-0.

We're nothing without Kane at the minute. We can't play the ball out of defence when you're looking at players like Aurier, Sissoko and Davies to do it. Ndombele needs to be deeper to make things happen. Reguilon was a big miss as well. Earlier in the season it looked we had made progress but now we're right back to where we were when José started. Dier looked like he'd improved - today back to being brain dead. We were creating goals for fun - take Kane out of the team today and we're completely useless. I don't understand what his actual plan is. I didn't mind the defensiveness against City, Liverpool, it's sensible. But then we don't get out of the habit and play that way against Brighton, and Fulham. It's nonsense.
		
Click to expand...

I am happy.


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## GaryK (Feb 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Oh was there some football? I must have just missed that.
		
Click to expand...

I fell asleep during the first half - it was THAT boring.

Jose HAS to go NOW! His tactics do not align to the Spurs way of playing.
The whole Dele thing is a complete mystery - sure, the last 18 months he hasn't been as good as he can be, but to treat him the way that Jose has is ridiculous.
The Bale thing is equally mystifying - yeah, we all probably has visions of Bale mark 1 coming home, but it seems that he isn't interested and/or Jose isn't giving him enough chances.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 5, 2021)

Blimey, Klopps mask is slipping further by the day 😳


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## USER1999 (Feb 5, 2021)

Spurs fans. The gift that just keeps on giving.


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## sunshine (Feb 5, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Spurs fans. The gift that just keeps on giving.
		
Click to expand...


I don't know how Spurs fans set their expectations. At least Liverpool and Man U fans have lots of titles within living memory.

My favourite example is the Champions League final. Spurs fans have told me that they should have won that game, but the team / ref messed up. Completely oblivious to the fact that Liverpool had an incredible team on top form.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Blimey, Klopps mask is slipping further by the day 😳
		
Click to expand...

I get the Mind games, but think Jurgen has scored a bit of an own goal here. City had an 8 days break around the Dec/ Jan period. Liverpool had a nine day break between the Villa and Utd games which were towards mid Jan, so should Liverpool be more refreshed. Cannot understand how the oil money never bought us a better break. Anyway looking forward to the game Sunday.


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## Orikoru (Feb 5, 2021)

sunshine said:




I don't know how Spurs fans set their expectations. At least Liverpool and Man U fans have lots of titles within living memory.

My favourite example is the Champions League final. Spurs fans have told me that they should have won that game, but the team / ref messed up. Completely oblivious to the fact that Liverpool had an incredible team on top form.
		
Click to expand...

Every Spurs fan I've ever met is beset with immense pessimism and negativity. Even when it's going well it means the wheels are about to fall off. Not sure who these Spurs fans are with high expectations?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Every Spurs fan I've ever met is beset with immense pessimism and negativity. Even when it's going well it means the wheels are about to fall off. Not sure who these Spurs fans are with high expectations?
		
Click to expand...

I can assure you it was not just Spurs fans, in fact it was flippin Spurs and Ricky Villa that broke my heart in the early 80’s. City’s fans use “typical City” As a way to describe Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. Even when we had won a trophy or two there was an underlying feeling that mr Typical would turn up again. It’s a tough feeling to get rid of.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357943356521734145
Maybe just cancel all internationals.. their a really really bad idea


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2021)




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## Slime (Feb 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 34902

Click to expand...

Great shout, Phil.


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## USER1999 (Feb 6, 2021)

Oops. Big mistake from Cedric.


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## paddyc (Feb 6, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Oops. Big mistake from Cedric.
		
Click to expand...

and Holding day dreaming  again ffs


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## USER1999 (Feb 6, 2021)

Not sure it was really much to do with Holding.

Arsenal seem to have hit the go slow today. No zip. Unless they step up, this is not going to end well.


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## Slime (Feb 6, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Not sure it was really much to do with Holding.

Arsenal seem to have hit the go slow today. No zip. *Unless they step up, this is not going to end well.*

Click to expand...

I guess they didn't step up.


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2021)

Willock gonna be another who does better away from Arsenal lol


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2021)

Minamino hoping the way to the Liverpool first team through playing well for Southampton

Unusual way round but let's see


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2021)

This Southampton game is a great watch 

Two class goals from Southampton


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## SaintHacker (Feb 6, 2021)

Fair play to Newcastle, held strong against us even when down to 9 men. Think we had something like 80% posession in the second half, but couldn't find the last touch against a very resolute defence. Oh well, onto the next one


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## Kellfire (Feb 6, 2021)

Utter joke of a red card.


----------



## fundy (Feb 6, 2021)

Mike Dean lol

On Soucek to be carded, but thats an utter joke decision


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2021)

Can't believe that's a red 

That's going to cost us big for next 3 games 

Wonder if they will appeal


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Can't believe that's a red

That's going to cost us big for next 3 games

Wonder if they will appeal
		
Click to expand...


ask Southamptons advice not Arsenals on the appeal


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			ask Southamptons advice not Arsenals on the appeal 

Click to expand...

I mean there is contact 

We saw a few years ago when Carroll elbowed thin air and Chico dived that appeals fail

That stuffs us for the cup game now 

Plus 2 premier League games


Our most important player


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## Fade and Die (Feb 6, 2021)

Dene really is a twat. He watched the incident maybe 10 times in slow motion and still gets it wrong. Unbelievable.


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## Kellfire (Feb 6, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Dene really is a twat. He watched the incident maybe 10 times in slow motion and still gets it wrong. Unbelievable.
		
Click to expand...

“How can I make this about me?”

Shocking.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2021)

It’ll be a 5-aside league soon if they keep reviewing in slow speed.😂😂😂


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Dene really is a twat. He watched the incident maybe 10 times in slow motion and still gets it wrong. Unbelievable.
		
Click to expand...

Ill buy number of views at 10, more like 30 lol. Then the slow walk, the pause to get the card out of the pocket etc etc


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2021)

Can someone show me the bit of the video that Lee Mason saw where Soucek clenched his fist plse lol


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## DanFST (Feb 6, 2021)

Mike Dean is a .... 

Without our best player for 3 games, of course they won't over turn it. Dean will still have a job after years of being inept. 

Manchester United next.....


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Dene really is a twat. He watched the incident maybe 10 times in slow motion and still gets it wrong. Unbelievable.
		
Click to expand...

We can blame Dean all we want but it's mason who sent him over to the monitor ...


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## Fade and Die (Feb 6, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			We can blame Dean all we want but it's mason who sent him over to the monitor ...
		
Click to expand...

So double bad Reffing? 

Dean had the decision to make and he got it wrong. Just shows how poor he is.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			So double bad Reffing?

Dean had the decision to make and he got it wrong. Just shows how poor he is.
		
Click to expand...

Isn't it still only once this season when sent over to the side that they haven't overuled their original decision

It reminded me of when Carroll elbowed thin air in Chico season 

Accidental contact this one


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2021)

But anyways fair play to Fulham, much better than they been for sure ..they should have won


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## Jensen (Feb 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			José out. That's enough I'm afraid. His reputation is a manager that wins games 1-0, but our defence was never good enough, and we don't create anything, that's only going to lose you games 1-0.

We're nothing without Kane at the minute. We can't play the ball out of defence when you're looking at players like Aurier, Sissoko and Davies to do it. Ndombele needs to be deeper to make things happen. Reguilon was a big miss as well. Earlier in the season it looked we had made progress but now we're right back to where we were when José started. Dier looked like he'd improved - today back to being brain dead. We were creating goals for fun - take Kane out of the team today and we're completely useless. I don't understand what his actual plan is. I didn't mind the defensiveness against City, Liverpool, it's sensible. But then we don't get out of the habit and play that way against Brighton, and Fulham. It's nonsense.
		
Click to expand...

So, you’ve finally seen the light then.....
Who said we’ve only got 1 player 🤣


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## Slime (Feb 6, 2021)

Bruno ............................. genius !


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## Kellfire (Feb 6, 2021)

That was pure Cantona.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 6, 2021)

Has anyone ever seen Wan Bissaka cross the ball? I've watched their last few games and he gets forward all the time but I've never seen him put a cross in. Always lays it back or plays a short pass.


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## Kellfire (Feb 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Has anyone ever seen Wan Bissaka cross the ball? I've watched their last few games and he gets forward all the time but I've never seen him put a cross in. Always lays it back or plays a short pass.
		
Click to expand...

He’s a terrible attacking FB. Gets there and forgets what to do.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 6, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			He’s a terrible attacking FB. Gets there and forgets what to do.
		
Click to expand...

He does get in to some great positions but doesn't have any end result. It's not even as though he puts in bad crosses, he just does nothing at all with it. He should be excused training for a week and told to sit down and watch videos of Alexander-Arnold and Robertson to see what he should be doing.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2021)

I’ll take a point.


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## Slime (Feb 6, 2021)

Time for Henderson to step in, De Gea completely bottled it.
He's cost us two points tonight.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			Bruno ............................. genius !
		
Click to expand...

can’t be,other top teams weren’t in for him 🤷‍♂️😂


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## Jensen (Feb 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			Time for Henderson to step in, De Gea completely bottled it.
He's cost us two points tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Big style, as a former keeper he should’ve been diving out at DCL feet.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			Time for Henderson to step in, De Gea completely bottled it.
He's cost us two points tonight.
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if Ole will stick with De Gea through loyalty. Think it’s a case of watch this space.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 6, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I wonder if Ole will stick with De Gea through loyalty. Think it’s a case of watch this space.
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if Ole has got the balls to drop De Gea. He seems a bit of a "yes man" and I'm not sure he's got the cohanas to make the big calls.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I wonder if Ole has got the balls to drop De Gea. He seems a bit of a "yes man" and I'm not sure he's got the cohanas to make the big calls.
		
Click to expand...

I was trying to put it in a polite fashion. 😁


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## Piece (Feb 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Time for Henderson to step in, De Gea completely bottled it.
He's cost us two points tonight.
		
Click to expand...

A Schmeichel type star save would have done the job there


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2021)

Jensen said:



			So, you’ve finally seen the light then.....
Who said we’ve only got 1 player 🤣
		
Click to expand...

From day 1 Jensen, from day 1. You told them 😁


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## sunshine (Feb 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Every Spurs fan I've ever met is beset with immense pessimism and negativity. Even when it's going well it means the wheels are about to fall off. Not sure who these Spurs fans are with high expectations?
		
Click to expand...

But it’s the incredible pessimism that I’m talking about. Typical spurs, we got to the CL final then messed it up. We were so useless under pochetino, could only manage top 4, make a mess of everything etc etc.

Where do spurs fans set the bar in terms of an acceptable result? I find it really grating.


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## sunshine (Feb 7, 2021)

While I’m on about Spurs, can’t help feeling the criticism of mourinho is harsh. 

Spurs doesn’t have the squad depth of Liverpool or City, so is more exposed when injuries hit. Don’t know if mourinho has budget/ permission to spend big on players for the bench, but it takes several years to build the squad in any case.  

Obviously they shouldn’t be losing to Brighton at any time, but neither should Liverpool.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2021)

sunshine said:



			While I’m on about Spurs, can’t help feeling the criticism of mourinho is harsh.

Spurs doesn’t have the squad depth of Liverpool or City, so is more exposed when injuries hit. Don’t know if mourinho has budget/ permission to spend big on players for the bench, but it takes several years to build the squad in any case. 

Obviously they shouldn’t be losing to Brighton at any time, but neither should Liverpool.
		
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I think you can get away with losing if the style of play is still pleasing. At the moment Spurs are going full Mourinho, 10 men behind the ball, play on the break, whether against the top team or the bottom team in the league. That's fine when you win but you lose friends quickly when you don't.


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## pendodave (Feb 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think you can get away with losing if the style of play is still pleasing. At the moment Spurs are going full Mourinho, 10 men behind the ball, play on the break, whether against the top team or the bottom team in the league. That's fine when you win but you lose friends quickly when you don't.
		
Click to expand...

It's complicated. I'm not spurs, so not sure I'm entitled to post, but I'm friends with plenty.
Supporters want to like their club and experience vicarious pleasure when watching them play. Spurs supporters get none of that - their manager is an unpleasant bully (see Luke Shaw et al), and the football they play is lacking in any sort of joie de vivre or panache. They all know that we're looking at them and thinking "ughh, maybe you, Orikoru, are a bit horrid like Mou, and a bit boring like your cr@#@y team" ;-)
Contrast with Leeds. Have a hipster manager and play, variously, some of the worst and very best footy that there's been this season. 3 points less, but at least they can walk the streets with their heads held up.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 7, 2021)

Kane back hope Jose not rushing him back to soon, it’s happened in the past.


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2021)

I'm shocked Kane is back, I didn't know that was on the cards. Shape looks much better with no Sissoko, Ndombele deeper, Lamela in at number 10 and Bergwijn out of the team as well. Only negative is Sanchez and Aurier playing. But overall looking positive, should be able to secure a disappointing 1-1 draw instead of a crushing defeat.

Maitland-Niles is in their team, you can put your house on him scoring against us.


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2021)

pendodave said:



			It's complicated. I'm not spurs, so not sure I'm entitled to post, but I'm friends with plenty.
Supporters want to like their club and experience vicarious pleasure when watching them play. Spurs supporters get none of that - their manager is an unpleasant bully (see Luke Shaw et al), and the football they play is lacking in any sort of joie de vivre or panache. They all know that we're looking at them and thinking "ughh, maybe you, Orikoru, are a bit horrid like Mou, and a bit boring like your cr@#@y team" ;-)
Contrast with Leeds. Have a hipster manager and play, variously, some of the worst and very best footy that there's been this season. 3 points less, but at least they can walk the streets with their heads held up.
		
Click to expand...

Luckily I don't attach my self worth to how my football team are doing so I'm fine. 😆 I just want us to win, if we don't, whatever.


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2021)

"Only West Brom" but the balance was far better today. Obviously Kane makes an enormous difference, but also dropping Sissoko was the right call. He really has no place in the team in games where we expect to have possession of the ball. I think Lucas showed he's a better player than Bergwijn too, with a great run and perfectly weighted pass for the second goal. Lastly I think Lamela had a good game at number 10 - I quite like him in the middle there, a little bit creative but also gives you some aggression and steel. Sort of like Dele used to do before he went off the boil.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 7, 2021)

Random irritation - The ref has just given Liverpool a free kick a yard outside the penalty area and allowed the wall to line up level with the penalty spot. No way that was close to 10 yards. At best they should have been half way between the penalty spot and the 6 yard box.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2021)

Stupid from Fabinho.
Might get away with that playing in midfield.
But you can’t do that at CB in the area.
We just look slow again.
To many backward passes.


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## fundy (Feb 7, 2021)

why wasnt Fabinho sent off? clearly wasnt trying to play the ball


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			why wasnt Fabinho sent off? clearly wasnt trying to play the ball
		
Click to expand...

Why wasn't Dias sent off? Clearly wasn't trying to play the ball.


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## rudebhoy (Feb 7, 2021)

Pathetic dive from Salah. There was contact obviously but throwing yourself to the ground like that is just cheating. Yes I know they all do it, but it is really annoying.


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## Slime (Feb 7, 2021)

Ooops. 

................ and I thought De Gea had a 'mare.


Double ooops, hilarious.


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## fundy (Feb 7, 2021)

dear oh dear Alisson

thatll be that then


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## chrisd (Feb 7, 2021)

Hysterical!


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 7, 2021)

Blimey 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## fundy (Feb 7, 2021)

How good has Foden been, stunning goal to cap off a great 2nd half performance


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## Beezerk (Feb 7, 2021)

Does Alisson get two dream team assists for those goals then?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2021)

Well that’s the title to City , outstanding from Foden in second half . Unexplainable from Alisson. We need to get Fabinho or Henderson back into the middle ASAP - players look dead on their feet at the moment


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## ger147 (Feb 7, 2021)

Deffo the match ball for Alisson.


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## Piece (Feb 7, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Pathetic dive from Salah. There was contact obviously but throwing yourself to the ground like that is just cheating. Yes I know they all do it, but it is really annoying.
		
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Yes. To me that's more annoying than any issue with VAR.


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## srixon 1 (Feb 7, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Pathetic dive from Salah. There was contact obviously but throwing yourself to the ground like that is just cheating. Yes I know they all do it, but it is really annoying.
		
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I never knew that having your arm tugged made your legs stop working. Unfortunately football is in my DNA so i feel compelled to watch the big games. If i was a ref i would be sacked after one game in charge.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2021)

Well done to City.
Bit of a drab game until the second goal.
You can’t plan for individual errors like Allison. But City were ruthless with their chances 
We just look out of ideas.
Klopp needs to play at least one of the young CBS we have , just to get one midfielder back .


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2021)

srixon 1 said:



			I never knew that having your arm tugged made your legs stop working. Unfortunately football is in my DNA so i feel compelled to watch the big games. If i was a ref i would be sacked after one game in charge.
		
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It also dosnt make the ref blow his whistle.
If he stays on his feet the ref won’t give the foul.
It’s really poor from the players that go down ( including Liverpool players) but they feel the ref won’t blow unless they do.


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## HowlingGale (Feb 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			It also dosnt make the ref blow his whistle.
If he stays on his feet the ref won’t give the foul.
It’s really poor from the players that go down ( including Liverpool players) but they feel the ref won’t blow unless they do.
		
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If only there was something that they could use that would help the ref determine that it's a foul.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Pathetic dive from Salah. There was contact obviously but throwing yourself to the ground like that is just cheating. Yes I know they all do it, but it is really annoying.
		
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It’s the same with Sterling - they don’t need to go down but they are both fouls in the modern game now and the ref won’t give it unless the players go down - it’s poor but it’s the game now - until the refs give the fouls without the players going down then players will continue to do it.


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## Beezerk (Feb 7, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Pathetic dive from Salah. There was contact obviously but throwing yourself to the ground like that is just cheating. Yes I know they all do it, but it is really annoying.
		
Click to expand...

He's a fairly strong fella I imagine as well


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2021)

Blimey - you would think listening to likes of Keane and Carragher that we are fighting relegation , instead of crucifying Liverpool how about focus on how well City are doing , 

we have had a hugely disrupted season with injuries which has affected the way we play and everyone appears to be flat at the moment , it’s been 3 years of high level football - it’s a dip just like City had one last year


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## Imurg (Feb 7, 2021)

I type this question almost every week and then delete it before posting.. but I'm going to ask it today 

If all the players are cheats
If the refs are crap
If VAR is killng the game
If your Manager couldn't manage himself out of a paper bag
If your team depresses you.....

Why the hell does everyone keep on watching..?
And then moaning afterwards?
I don't get it......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 7, 2021)

Imurg said:



			I type this question almost every week and then delete it before posting.. but I'm going to ask it today

If all the players are cheats
If the refs are crap
If VAR is killng the game
If your Manager couldn't manage himself out of a paper bag
If your team depresses you.....

Why the hell does everyone keep on watching..?
And then moaning afterwards?
I don't get it......
		
Click to expand...

We only moan when it’s against our team.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He's a fairly strong fella I imagine as well 

View attachment 34928

Click to expand...

Embarrassing 🤦‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2021)

Imurg said:



			I type this question almost every week and then delete it before posting.. but I'm going to ask it today

If all the players are cheats
If the refs are crap
If VAR is killng the game
If your Manager couldn't manage himself out of a paper bag
If your team depresses you.....

Why the hell does everyone keep on watching..?
And then moaning afterwards?
I don't get it......
		
Click to expand...

It’s sport - the next game you could be smashing someone or winning a trophy etc 

People don’t stop watching just because the refs etc are rubbish 

But VAR and current situation will be turning a lot of people off the sport


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2021)

HowlingGale said:



			If only there was something that they could use that would help the ref determine that it's a foul.
		
Click to expand...

Anywhere else on the pitch the ref gives that.
But for some reason once it’s in the area it’s not a foul unless the player goes down.
I really don’t understand it.
Oliver knows that’s not enough to bring him down but still gave a pen because it’s a foul.VAR backed him up .
It’s a dive no other word for it but like Fabinho for Sterling’s dive it’s poor defending from Dias to give him the chance to do it.


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## sawtooth (Feb 7, 2021)

Players well and truly burnt out at Liverpool. They lasted a season longer than I thought they would but 3-4 years of gengenpress has taken its toll.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2021)

Imurg said:



			I type this question almost every week and then delete it before posting.. but I'm going to ask it today

If all the players are cheats
If the refs are crap
If VAR is killng the game
If your Manager couldn't manage himself out of a paper bag
If your team depresses you.....

Why the hell does everyone keep on watching..?
And then moaning afterwards?
I don't get it......
		
Click to expand...

If you play crap at golf , why do you go back again?
Nobody knows the answer to that one!


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2021)

sawtooth said:



			Players well and truly burnt out at Liverpool. They lasted a season longer than I thought they would but 3-4 years of gengenpress has taken its toll.
		
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Yes I think your right.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Anywhere else on the pitch the ref gives that.
But for some reason once it’s in the area it’s not a foul unless the player goes down.
I really don’t understand it.
Oliver knows that’s not enough to bring him down but still gave a pen because it’s a foul.VAR backed him up .
It’s a dive no other word for it but like Fabinho for Sterling’s dive it’s poor defending from Dias to give him the chance to do it.
		
Click to expand...

Sterling didn’t dive his legs were taken.


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## Slime (Feb 7, 2021)

Breaking news from Klopp .......................... maybe Alisson had cold feet!


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Sterling didn’t dive his legs were taken. 

Click to expand...

If you say so.
Sterling chose to go over his leg, stupid from Fabinho.
He chose to dive .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you say so.
Sterling chose to go over his leg, stupid from Fabinho.
He chose to dive .
		
Click to expand...

He had skinned him and was through on goal. Take the red glasses off


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358463769601572869


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 7, 2021)

Oo, all of my ignore knobheads in the house tonight. Mind the gaps.

Shot ourselves in the foot with an uzi, but city fully deserved the win, anyway.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 7, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oo, all of my ignore knobheads in the house tonight. Mind the gaps.

Shot ourselves in the foot with an uzi, but city fully deserved the win, anyway.
		
Click to expand...

Anyone seen Sinbads dummy? 😂😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 7, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358481365331808257
WARNING... Contains strong language.


----------



## fundy (Feb 7, 2021)

clinical from Rudiger, more clinical than anyone Sheff Utd have had all season at least lol


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 7, 2021)




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## Tashyboy (Feb 7, 2021)

Well now the sproggs in bed I can waffle. The first 20 mins City set off very very well. Then We started giving the ball away left right and centre. I was having a right meltdown, not helped by another penalty miss. Then a goal from out of the blue. Liverpool through Salah scored from a nailed on penalty that should of been dealt with.
After that when City went to 4-4-2 it looked more balanced but I thought Liverpool were deffo in the game. Then Allison’s blunders, what can you say. Foden finishes it off and game over. Maybe the score flattered City but a penalty miss stopped it from being worse. Ask any City fan if they thought they would be in this position before Christmas and they would of laughed. City under Pep have won 14 on the spin, his highest ever winning run at any club. Ironically without Aguero and KDB at the moment.
Re Liverpool, I mentioned a month ago they have to grind out results or Champs league could be gone. At the moment there form is relegation form. And the pack is gathering. A couple of years ago City did the high press like Liverpool did. They have stopped doing it as much because it was strength sapping. Having a confident back four as we do now means you can sit back and be quite comfortable. 
Could be a tough end of season run in for Liverpool, the next game for Liverpool v Leicester is massive. The week after well al leave that to the good people of Liverpool to discuss the Derby game.


----------



## Piece (Feb 7, 2021)

Imurg said:



			I type this question almost every week and then delete it before posting.. but I'm going to ask it today

If all the players are cheats
If the refs are crap
If VAR is killng the game
If your Manager couldn't manage himself out of a paper bag
If your team depresses you.....

Why the hell does everyone keep on watching..?
And then moaning afterwards?
I don't get it......
		
Click to expand...

That is the beautiful game 🤪


----------



## Imurg (Feb 7, 2021)

Piece said:



			That is the beautiful game 🤪
		
Click to expand...

You're all bonkers


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He had skinned him and was through on goal. Take the red glasses off


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358463769601572869

Click to expand...

Watched it frame by frame.
He’s going down before the contact.
He’s made a decision to “win a penalty” as they say.
Still a pen though stupid from Fabinho.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Breaking news from Klopp .......................... maybe Alisson had cold feet!
		
Click to expand...

It’s a possibility as he had nothing to do before the second goal.
Did he really say that , worse than a Wenger excuse if he did.


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Watched it frame by frame.
He’s going down before the contact.
He’s made a decision to “win a penalty” as they say.
Still a pen though stupid from Fabinho.
		
Click to expand...

Haha, no way. He skins him on the inside, first Fabinho's left foot lightly trips him, then he completes the job by throwing his right heel back and wiping him out! No dive there, I really think Sterling was looking to get a shot away on his right having beaten the man.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Watched it frame by frame.
He’s going down before the contact.
He’s made a decision to “win a penalty” as they say.
Still a pen though stupid from Fabinho.
		
Click to expand...

Fab left his legs there to initiate the contact, pen all day for me.

3 times, at least our FB's let them come in on the inside of them, they need to learn to show them down the line.


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## Jensen (Feb 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He's a fairly strong fella I imagine as well 

View attachment 34928

Click to expand...

It looks like a scene from Platoon 😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fab left his legs there to initiate the contact, pen all day for me.

3 times, at least our FB's let them come in on the inside of them, they need to learn to show them down the line.
		
Click to expand...

There very good players though and you can’t stop them all the time.
But City don’t have a CF so CBS have nobody to mark and should cover the fullbacks better.
Plenty of red shirts in the box.
First contact is Fabs standing foot he’s on his way down then before the stupid dangled leg.
Yes it’s a pen. But he’s looking for it imo.


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## hairball_89 (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			There very good players though and you can’t stop them all the time.
But City don’t have a CF so CBS have nobody to mark and should cover the fullbacks better.
Plenty of red shirts in the box.
First contact is Fabs standing foot he’s on his way down then before the stupid dangled leg.
Yes it’s a pen. But he’s looking for it imo.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. def a pen. was he looking for it? Absolutely. and all good attackers look for pens. at every opportunity. Why wouldn't you?

re: our FBs letting their wide players cut inside, how many times have we seen commentary/pundits say "he should have stopped Mane/Salah coming inside there and sent him down the line"? Sometimes they're just too good. And Man City players are really bloody good at football!


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 8, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Agreed. def a pen. was he looking for it? Absolutely. and all good attackers look for pens. at every opportunity. Why wouldn't you?

re: our FBs letting their wide players cut inside, how many times have we seen commentary/pundits say "he should have stopped Mane/Salah coming inside there and sent him down the line"? Sometimes they're just too good. And Man City players are really bloody good at football!
		
Click to expand...

Run at the correct angle, even if he beats you down the side, most times it will only be a cross and not a shot.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			There very good players though and you can’t stop them all the time.
But City don’t have a CF so CBS have nobody to mark and should cover the fullbacks better.
Plenty of red shirts in the box.
First contact is Fabs standing foot he’s on his way down then before the stupid dangled leg.
Yes it’s a pen. But he’s looking for it imo.
		
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My lad called it quite well.The 2 previous times Sterling was shown the byline, his weaker foot. Both times he had it took off him. This time he does his massively exaggerated step over, cuts in and as soon as there’s contact he is going down. 
Re Liverpool something has to change. Is the lad from Preston fit to play. If he drops in does Henderson or Fab drop in the middle. 🤔 my worry for Liverpool is they are getting to the business end of the season and champs league and they can ill afford to have any injuries to Henderson or fab playing every game.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			My lad called it quite well.The 2 previous times Sterling was shown the byline, his weaker foot. Both times he had it took off him. This time he does his massively exaggerated step over, cuts in and as soon as there’s contact he is going down.
Re Liverpool something has to change. Is the lad from Preston fit to play. If he drops in does Henderson or Fab drop in the middle. 🤔 my worry for Liverpool is they are getting to the business end of the season and champs league and they can ill afford to have any injuries to Henderson or fab playing every game.
		
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Yes agree with your lad .
But Sterling and Foden are quality players and you can’t stop them all the time.
The best FB in the world won’t stop them every time .
It’s why they are playing for City.

We have young CBS but we don’t play them when we should.
It may weaken the defence ( debatable) but it would strengthen the midfield imo.
Which would protect the defence better, and balance the team a bit more.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree with your lad .
But Sterling and Foden are quality players and you can’t stop them all the time.
The best FB in the world won’t stop them every time .
It’s why they are playing for City.

We have young CBS but we don’t play them when we should.
It may weaken the defence ( debatable) but it would strengthen the midfield imo.
Which would protect the defence better, and balance the team a bit more.
		
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It looks like dropping fab and Henderson to Centre half has altered the balance of the team to much. 👍


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## Orikoru (Feb 8, 2021)

Was pointless signing the two defenders if they're not deemed good enough to start. I imagine he just didn't want to chuck them in for a daunting debut against Man City, and we'll start to see them phased in from now on. Not really stellar names coming in from the Championship and a side rock bottom of the German league though - they do reek a little bit of panic buys.


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## Slime (Feb 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Was pointless signing the two defenders if they're not deemed good enough to start. I imagine he just didn't want to chuck them in for a daunting debut against Man City, and *we'll start to see them phased in from now on*. Not really stellar names coming in from the Championship and a side rock bottom of the German league though - they do reek a little bit of panic buys.
		
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Can Klopp really afford, timewise, to phase them in?
I'd have thought not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2021)

Slime said:



			Can Klopp really afford, timewise, to phase them in?
I'd have thought not.
		
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Klopp won’t change his methods for introducing new players - too early and you could ruin the player and despite all the doom and gloom and the team being written off it’s not all as bad as people make out.


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## Orikoru (Feb 8, 2021)

Slime said:



			Can Klopp really afford, timewise, to phase them in?
I'd have thought not.
		
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Has all in the time in the world now, the league is finished.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It looks like dropping fab and Henderson to Centre half has altered the balance of the team to much. 👍
		
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Yes I think so as well .
Maybe one with one of the young lads.
But we havnt only lost two CB we have lost the heart of the midfield by moving them back.
Any team will struggle doing that but it’s cost us going forward as well.
We are slow and just can’t break teams down who sit back.
Not the City game really it’s been like that for a while.


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## hairball_89 (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I think so as well .
Maybe one with one of the young lads.
But we havnt only lost two CB we have lost the heart of the midfield by moving them back.
Any team will struggle doing that but it’s cost us going forward as well.
We are slow and just can’t break teams down who sit back.
Not the City game really it’s been like that for a while.
		
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Absolutely. Add in that Ox and Naby can't be relied on at all and the midfield numbers are super low so Gini has played what feels like every minute and we're relying on Milner much more than probably planned! 

The perfect storm for the team being very poor!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I think so as well .
Maybe one with one of the young lads.
But we havnt only lost two CB we have lost the heart of the midfield by moving them back.
Any team will struggle doing that but it’s cost us going forward as well.
We are slow and just can’t break teams down who sit back.
Not the City game really it’s been like that for a while.
		
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Sat having a natter with me lad. Re Henderson, he was Player of the year last season. That’s how pivotal he was to the team. He is the first I would drop back into the middle. Re Ori saying about would you drop one of the 2 centre half’s in against City, or both. I understand yup it’s City, but Leicester of Everton are not much easier. And again, Klopp/ Liverpool knew the fixture list was tough for a month before they purchased them.
That aside, although the result was not the best, re others around them drawing. It only means they lost a point on Leicester and Utd. For me there still in it, but they have to change it.
Finally, whoever the numpties are shouting for Klopp to go. It’s not his fault Liverpool have not splashed out.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Absolutely. Add in that Ox and Naby can't be relied on at all and the midfield numbers are super low so Gini has played what feels like every minute and we're relying on Milner much more than probably planned!

The perfect storm for the team being very poor!
		
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Yes but we can all see that but we still didn’t go and get a CB that could be just put in place.
If the PL ,European,world club champions can’t recruit a CB something is wrong.
My honest opinion is Klopp knows we won’t do anything this season and he is already planning his team for next season.
We were well in the game until the keepers errors( these things happen) and City were no great shakes until their second goal.
Wasn’t just yesterday we have been poor for a while.
Let’s just hope the owners will finance Klopp targets, as we have to many very ordinary players in the squad.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but we can all see that but we still didn’t go and get a CB that could be just put in place.
If the PL ,European,world club champions can’t recruit a CB something is wrong.
My honest opinion is Klopp knows we won’t do anything this season and he is already planning his team for next season.
We were well in the game until the keepers errors( these things happen) and City were no great shakes until their second goal.
Wasn’t just yesterday we have been poor for a while.
Let’s just hope the owners will finance Klopp targets, as we have to many very ordinary players in the squad.
		
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Thinking about what you have said, there was a spell where City were rammel about 18 months ago. There were suggestions that Pep was trying to make a point how weak he was in certain areas by his team selections. Always a lot easier when you have a sugar daddy. I can understand Klopp looking at next year. But Liverpool will look far more attractive being in the champs league.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Sat having a natter with me lad. Re Henderson, he was Player of the year last season. That’s how pivotal he was to the team. He is the first I would drop back into the middle. Re Ori saying about would you drop one of the 2 centre half’s in against City, or both. I understand yup it’s City, but Leicester of Everton are not much easier. And again, Klopp/ Liverpool knew the fixture list was tough for a month before they purchased them.
That aside, although the result was not the best, re others around them drawing. It only means they lost a point on Leicester and Utd. For me there still in it, but they have to change it.
Finally, whoever the numpties are shouting for Klopp to go. It’s not his fault Liverpool have not splashed out.
		
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See your point .
But against City it’s not essential to have a CB as they play without a CF.
It’s your midfield that did the damage small mobile players. Pace is key and as good as they are Fab and Hendo are not as fast .
Against Vardy and Calvert Lewin we will need a more robust CB.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but we can all see that but we still didn’t go and get a CB that could be just put in place.
If the PL ,European,world club champions can’t recruit a CB something is wrong.
My honest opinion is Klopp knows we won’t do anything this season and he is already planning his team for next season.
We were well in the game until the keepers errors( these things happen) and City were no great shakes until their second goal.
Wasn’t just yesterday we have been poor for a while.
Let’s just hope the owners will finance Klopp targets, as we have to many very ordinary players in the squad.
		
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I think you best be prepared that there won’t be much money flying around in the summer - the club will stand to lose around £100mil because of the pandemic and that’s going to affect the transfer budget and indeed most clubs transfer budgets unless clubs want to put debt on etc


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Thinking about what you have said, there was a spell where City were rammel about 18 months ago. There were suggestions that Pep was trying to make a point how weak he was in certain areas by his team selections. Always a lot easier when you have a sugar daddy. I can understand Klopp looking at next year. But Liverpool will look far more attractive being in the champs league.
		
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Tbh I dread to think what some CL teams will do to us if we don’t sort this out.
By moving your midfield into the back we have a weak back four.
A weaker midfield to protect that back four and provide for the strikers.
I would play one of the young lads and put the midfield back to full strength.
At least 2/3 rds of the team will be full strength.
It can’t be any worse than the last couple of weeks.
I would put Milner as a sweeper behind one of the young CBs.
Fab in front in holding role and Hendo back in middle.
But who would be a manager.!!


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think you best be prepared that there won’t be much money flying around in the summer - the club will stand to lose around £100mil because of the pandemic and that’s going to affect the transfer budget and indeed most clubs transfer budgets unless clubs want to put debt on etc
		
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Not buying a CB of note could cost us the CL spot next season .
That will be a shock to the finances.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not buying a CB of note could cost us the CL spot next season .
That will be a shock to the finances.
		
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They have brought in two CB’s ?


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## SteveW86 (Feb 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They have brought in two CB’s ?
		
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I wouldnt say they have brought in 2 CB's "of note" as suggested.

From the outside, Liverpool should have been buying a top quality CB who could come in and make a difference straight away to this team.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They have brought in two CB’s ?
		
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There for the future imo. I did say of note.
I have never heard of any of them, if they are good enough they should be playing.
They havnt played yet.
I wonder why?
Instead of having our best midfielder in a strange position.
Hendo/ is a great player but he’s not a CB or Fab they have done a good job but they are more influential in the middle.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			I wouldnt say they have brought in 2 CB's "of note" as suggested.

From the outside, Liverpool should have been buying a top quality CB who could come in and make a difference straight away to this team.
		
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That’s what I was saying yes.
We need one CB of real quality to slot right in and free up Hendo.
Fab is ok with another CB.
But once VVD is fit we will have a formidable back four.
Matip is made of glass and that’s not reliable enough although I like him as a player.
and Gomez is a quality player to back them up.
But you can’t spend what you havnt got I guess.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			I wouldnt say they have brought in 2 CB's "of note" as suggested.

From the outside, Liverpool should have been buying a top quality CB who could come in and make a difference straight away to this team.
		
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clubchamp98 said:



			There for the future imo. I did say of note.
I have never heard of any of them, if they are good enough they should be playing.
They havnt played yet.
I wonder why?
Instead of having our best midfielder in a strange position.
Hendo/ is a great player but he’s not a CB or Fab they have done a good job but they are more influential in the middle.
		
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There are a number of reasons

The market right now is not flowing - look at how many actual permanent transfers happened in January, it’s not really a great month for signing top players - 

Also the club doesn’t have millions sat there waiting to spend because of the drop in match day income 

And in regards why they haven’t played yet - they only arrived last week , Kabak only had 1 maybe two sessions - he isn’t going to be dropped in against City and Klopp is known to give players time before integrating players into the team


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## Steve Wilkes (Feb 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			I wouldnt say they have brought in 2 CB's "of note" as suggested.

From the outside, Liverpool should have been buying a top quality CB who could come in and make a difference straight away to this team.
		
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Do these CB's of note come in shop windows, like going in and buying a top of the range set of Headphones, but if the shop is sold out and no more in stock how do you get them


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## Orikoru (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



*There for the future imo.* I did say of note.
I have never heard of any of them, if they are good enough they should be playing.
They havnt played yet.
I wonder why?
Instead of having our best midfielder in a strange position.
Hendo/ is a great player but he’s not a CB or Fab they have done a good job but they are more influential in the middle.
		
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I thought that as well until I realised Davies is 25. Bit of a chin-scratcher that one. Reminds me of when Chelsea bought Michael Hector (I actually had to Google that to remember his name) from Reading.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There are a number of reasons

The market right now is not flowing - look at how many actual permanent transfers happened in January, it’s not really a great month for signing top players -

Also the club doesn’t have millions sat there waiting to spend because of the drop in match day income

And in regards why they haven’t played yet - they only arrived last week , Kabak only had 1 maybe two sessions - he isn’t going to be dropped in against City and Klopp is known to give players time before integrating players into the team
		
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We havnt got to much time though top four is not guaranteed by a long way.
Every club in the world has lost income. That’s where a rich owner is nice.
I know what your saying, but it makes us small fry in the transfer market.
Might be nobody avaliable he wants!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			See your point .
But against City it’s not essential to have a CB as they play without a CF.
It’s your midfield that did the damage small mobile players. Pace is key and as good as they are Fab and Hendo are not as fast .
Against Vardy and Calvert Lewin we will need a more robust CB.
		
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Yesterday was odd.We have Jesus as a striker,  But Foden is picked. No one saw that coming, a midfielder playing up front against two midfielders playing in defence. 😳


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I thought that as well until I realised Davies is 25. Bit of a chin-scratcher that one. Reminds me of when Chelsea bought Michael Hector (I actually had to Google that to remember his name) from Reading.
		
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Yes he’s been playing so no reason he can’t play and release Hendo.
“ is a new player who is a CB any more a liability than a midfielder playing CB” imo NO.
He needs to learn on the job he’s not a kid out of the academy.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Yesterday was odd.We have Jesus as a striker,  But Foden is picked. No one saw that coming, a midfielder playing up front against two midfielders playing in defence. 😳
		
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Foden could play anywhere imo.
He’s as good as anyone I have seen for a very long time.
But it was City’s movement after our mistakes that did us not being light in the CB department.


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## Orikoru (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes he’s been playing so no reason he can’t play and release Hendo.
“ is a new player who is a CB any more a liability than a midfielder playing CB” imo NO.
He needs to learn on the job he’s not a kid out of the academy.
		
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I'm with you, as I said earlier, was a bit pointless buying centre backs if you still end up playing Hendo out of position there instead, makes it look like a panic buy. He's either good enough or he isn't.


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## Orikoru (Feb 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Foden could play anywhere imo.
He’s as good as anyone I have seen for a very long time.
But it was City’s movement after our mistakes that did us not being light in the CB department.
		
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Foden is an unreal player. Highest compliment you could make is that they've not missed David Silva, and right now they're not really missing De Bruyne either. Foden's finishing and movement is superb. The way Pep has them set-up, anyone could be the striker, and whoever starts there will change position with two or three other players during the play anyway.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm with you, as I said earlier, was a bit pointless buying centre backs if you still end up playing Hendo out of position there instead, makes it look like a panic buy. He's either good enough or he isn't.
		
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Do you really think a manager will throw in players after 1 maybe two training seasons max and against city ? 

If either player had played previously in the Prem then they may well have been given some minutes but certainly not when moving up from the Championship or from abroad. The last thing a manager needs or wants to do is throwing someone in tool early - that could ruin a players development.


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## GreiginFife (Feb 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Foden is an unreal player. Highest compliment you could make is that they've not missed David Silva, and right now they're not really missing De Bruyne either. Foden's finishing and movement is superb. The way Pep has them set-up, anyone could be the striker, and whoever starts there will change position with two or three other players during the play anyway.
		
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This was how Pep had Barca playing in their pomp. Messi was obviously the focal point but the danger could come from anywhere


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## AmandaJR (Feb 8, 2021)

I prefer Foden playing without a CF (false 9 or whatever they call it!) rather than out wide - although he did pretty well after Jesus came on! I thought Pep's comments on him were great - enough to keep him grounded with all the (justified) compliments he's receiving. Basically he's very young and often doesn't get in the exact position they ask him to as he gets "distracted". I think he knows Foden well enough to be able to say that and know it will keep his head down and keep working hard to improve.

With the ball at his feet he's an absolute dream and that goal - shift and hit in one fluid movement...thing of beauty.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 8, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I prefer Foden playing without a CF (false 9 or whatever they call it!) rather than out wide - although he did pretty well after Jesus came on! I thought Pep's comments on him were great - enough to keep him grounded with all the (justified) compliments he's receiving. Basically he's very young and often doesn't get in the exact position they ask him to as he gets "distracted". I think he knows Foden well enough to be able to say that and know it will keep his head down and keep working hard to improve.

With the ball at his feet he's an absolute dream and that goal - shift and hit in one fluid movement...thing of beauty.
		
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True but where’s he getting his hair cut 😱


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## Piece (Feb 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Foden is an unreal player. Highest compliment you could make is that they've not missed David Silva, and right now they're not really missing De Bruyne either. Foden's finishing and movement is superb. The way Pep has them set-up, anyone could be the striker, and whoever starts there will change position with two or three other players during the play anyway.
		
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Don’t underestimate how well Bernardo Silva and Gundogan have been playing recently. They’ve stepped up to cover KdB. Also Rodri and Cancelo. If Sterling finds form and Aguero comes back firing....


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			Do these CB's of note come in shop windows, like going in and buying a top of the range set of Headphones, but if the shop is sold out and no more in stock how do you get them
		
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If you have enough money there’s one under the counter.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you really think a manager will throw in players after 1 maybe two training seasons max and against city ?

If either player had played previously in the Prem then they may well have been given some minutes but certainly not when moving up from the Championship or from abroad. The last thing a manager needs or wants to do is throwing someone in tool early - that could ruin a players development.
		
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Could also be the making of him as well! We will never know now.
But two midfielders in the back four with two CBS sitting on the bench hasn’t gone well imo.
All we’ve done is weaken the midfield.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			This was how Pep had Barca playing in their pomp. Messi was obviously the focal point but the danger could come from anywhere
		
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To be fair City were pretty average until their second goal.
Unless you meant Barca on a bad day.


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## SteveW86 (Feb 8, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			Do these CB's of note come in shop windows, like going in and buying a top of the range set of Headphones, but if the shop is sold out and no more in stock how do you get them
		
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Everything is for sale for the right price. Big moves can happen in January, Van Dijk for example. Granted he came from a team not in Europe and there was a back story.

Ultimately, for me, Liverpool could have gone out and signed a CB to fit straight in, but they have decided not to. Whether that is just down to finances who knows, those closer to the club will have a better idea than most of us. They could have borrowed the money to make it happen if they dont have it in their budgets, but I think it would be harsh to criticise them for not doing that in the climate we are currently in.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 8, 2021)

Maybe Klopps burnt his players out like he did at Dortmund 🤷‍♂️


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## hairball_89 (Feb 8, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maybe Klopps burnt his players out like he did at Dortmund 🤷‍♂️
		
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Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

But I'd add it probably wasn't Klopp's choice. The board, have managed in my opinion, to spend money without backing the manager when he needed it most. The 2 windows to go out and show we meant business we directly after winning the CL then the League. 

The summer after the CL win bringing in *only* a teenage cb punt, was madness. And then only spending £70m (albeit in areas that were necessary) and recouping over half that in player sales shows the owners will not back the big expenditure it takes to sustain a long term defence of the league over a number of years. 

I am very happy with the owners as a whole, but it is increasingly frustrating that they do not appear to use the points where we have been at our most attractive to bring in those players needed. Therefore klopp is "left" with players in year 4 who have played at the top of their game for 3 years running. And they simply can't do it again. Especially when the team is as depleted as it is.


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## davemc1 (Feb 8, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

But I'd add it probably wasn't Klopp's choice. The board, have managed in my opinion, to spend money without backing the manager when he needed it most. The 2 windows to go out and show we meant business we directly after winning the CL then the League.

The summer after the CL win bringing in *only* a teenage cb punt, was madness. And then only spending £70m (albeit in areas that were necessary) and recouping over half that in player sales shows the owners will not back the big expenditure it takes to sustain a long term defence of the league over a number of years.

I am very happy with the owners as a whole, but it is increasingly frustrating that they do not appear to use the points where we have been at our most attractive to bring in those players needed. Therefore klopp is "left" with players in year 4 who have played at the top of their game for 3 years running. And they simply can't do it again. Especially when the team is as depleted as it is.
		
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We as a club are lucky to have fans like you 👍🏻*

*Shakes head in despair*


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

But I'd add it probably wasn't Klopp's choice. The board, have managed in my opinion, to spend money without backing the manager when he needed it most. The 2 windows to go out and show we meant business we directly after winning the CL then the League.

The summer after the CL win bringing in *only* a teenage cb punt, was madness. And then only spending £70m (albeit in areas that were necessary) and recouping over half that in player sales shows the owners will not back the big expenditure it takes to sustain a long term defence of the league over a number of years.

I am very happy with the owners as a whole, but it is increasingly frustrating that they do not appear to use the points where we have been at our most attractive to bring in those players needed. Therefore klopp is "left" with players in year 4 who have played at the top of their game for 3 years running. And they simply can't do it again. Especially when the team is as depleted as it is.
		
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🤦‍♂️

Do you understand the financial model thr club works under ? Self sustaining- so when the clubs income is reduced by 25% due to the drop in match day income where are you expecting the money to come from to have the “big expenditure”

The accounts are public for all to see and it’s shows how much the club spends and generates


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## hairball_89 (Feb 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️

Do you understand the financial model thr club works under ? Self sustaining- so when the clubs income is reduced by 25% due to the drop in match day income where are you expecting the money to come from to have the “big expenditure”

The accounts are public for all to see and it’s shows how much the club spends and generates
		
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OK. Perhaps I hammered the wrong point. I absolutely understand the way the club runs and would *much* rather the model FSG have built us up with rather than the 'throw cash at it until it works' idea. I remember where we were 10 years ago and how it very really wasn't a football club anymore. My point is simple - commercially after the league and the CL we are at our peak. That is the time to go big. I totally get the money not being there. It's not a secret as you say. But it will come back.

It is more hope that a middle ground might have been possible. If it's not, as is clearly the case, then we've absolutely got the right team in place in Klopp and Edwards. But without spending you go backwards. That much is clear while looking at previous title winners. If not to directly improve the first 11, to better the squad. There will be *less* money at the end of this season than last, and less again if we don't get CL.


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## fundy (Feb 8, 2021)

time for the punishment for cynical fouls outside the box to be more than yellow card, really bad for the game. palace defender has basically just been mugged by Raphinia so all but rugby tackles him outside the box as knows its only a yellow


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## Orikoru (Feb 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			time for the punishment for cynical fouls outside the box to be more than yellow card, really bad for the game. palace defender has basically just been mugged by Raphinia so all but rugby tackles him outside the box as knows its only a yellow
		
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If he prevented a goalscoring opportunity it would have been a red though?


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## fundy (Feb 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If he prevented a goalscoring opportunity it would have been a red though?
		
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really i never knew lol

the problem is that a foul and yellow card is a better option for the defending team than not making the foul, clearly means the punishment isnt enough


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## Orikoru (Feb 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			really i never knew lol

the problem is that a foul and yellow card is a better option for the defending team than not making the foul, clearly means the punishment isnt enough
		
Click to expand...

I guess the time has come for orange cards.


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## fundy (Feb 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I guess the time has come for orange cards.
		
Click to expand...

if for that you mean 15 min sin bins then i agree completely


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## fundy (Feb 8, 2021)

Palace lost 17 of the last 19 games Zaha hasnt played according to sky? Any mitigation to that stat or is it as damning as it seems


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2021)

So soucek red card has been overturned 

That's 2 red cards in 2 weeks given out by Dean after consulting video reply that he has had taken back

Surely he has to be suspended or dropped for a few games. If you make the mistake real time fair enough but after looking at video? Twice?


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## fundy (Feb 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So soucek red card has been overturned

That's 2 red cards in 2 weeks given out by Dean after consulting video reply that he has had taken back

Surely he has to be suspended or dropped for a few games. If you make the mistake real time fair enough but after looking at video? Twice?
		
Click to expand...


that or he could get some death threats from so called fans of West Ham and ask for a week or two off


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			time for the punishment for cynical fouls outside the box to be more than yellow card, really bad for the game. palace defender has basically just been mugged by Raphinia so all but rugby tackles him outside the box as knows its only a yellow
		
Click to expand...

Been saying this for years.
Professional fouls need to be stamped out but there isn’t the will.
While a player can be sent off for an accident.
Delibaretly bringing someone down with no attempt for the ball is yellow.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So soucek red card has been overturned

That's 2 red cards in 2 weeks given out by Dean after consulting video reply that he has had taken back

Surely he has to be suspended or dropped for a few games. If you make the mistake real time fair enough but after looking at video? Twice?
		
Click to expand...

Don’t hold your breath.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			that or he could get some death threats from so called fans of West Ham and ask for a week or two off 

Click to expand...

Think every club has fans who are that stupid 

I believe (not that it makes it better) there was no death threats , just nasty comments on twitter about him and his family rather than threats at his home etc 

But still not right


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## fundy (Feb 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Think every club has fans who are that stupid

I believe (not that it makes it better) there was no death threats , just nasty comments on twitter about him and his family rather than threats at his home etc

But still not right
		
Click to expand...


ah well thats ok then, as long as youre sure the threats he reported to the police werent real then whats he worrying about, sorry but if this was arsenal fans id be slating them rather than saying every club has some that are stupid

im a long way from being a mike dean fan but excusing the idiots from your own club who abuse like this really doesnt help


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 9, 2021)

Paul and Fundy
Please take your handbags to PM
Thread tidied up
If we see a repeat it’s Infraction City Arizona 😡


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 9, 2021)

Remember when he use to just laugh at anything,the mask as slipped 😳😂


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## Kellfire (Feb 9, 2021)

Klopp has always been incredibly snide in his interviews but has done so behind a smile for the majority of the time. He was mostly in a position of being the underdog at the start of his tenure or from a position of real strength when they were playing so well but now that he’s under a little pressure he can’t stop the snide points becoming borderline nasty.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t begrudge opposition managers doing whatever they feel is right for their team but the whole notion that he was a breath of fresh air compared to the likes of Ferguson, Mourinho and Wenger was never accurate IMO.


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## Beezerk (Feb 9, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Remember when he use to just laugh at anything,the mask as slipped 😳😂
		
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You could see it coming for a few months, getting more and more tetchy during interviews.


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2021)

Klopp has always been easily rattled like that. He's got the biggest ego going and he can't stand it taking a dent. You just don't see it when they were winning all the time because he's happy as Larry then obviously.


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Remember when he use to just laugh at anything,the mask as slipped 😳😂
		
Click to expand...

The video was moderated because of a swearword in the tweet I think. Here is a new version without that:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358816243369857026


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## Slime (Feb 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Klopp has always been easily rattled like that. *He's got the biggest ego going *and he can't stand it taking a dent. You just don't see it when they were winning all the time because he's happy as Larry then obviously.
		
Click to expand...

Err, hello ............................. Jose Mourinho.
His ego is bigger than most small countries!


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2021)

Slime said:



			Err, hello ............................. Jose Mourinho.
His ego is bigger than most small countries!
		
Click to expand...

They have very similar personalities. Full of themselves when it's going well, the banter comes out - take it out on others when it goes wrong.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2021)

I have never seen a top manager who is happy when his team is obviously struggling.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Klopp has always been easily rattled like that. *He's got the biggest ego going and he can't stand it taking a dent. *You just don't see it when they were winning all the time because he's happy as Larry then obviously.
		
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😂

Have you ever seen your manager in an interview 😂😂

And Klopp is reacting the same as any other previous manager in a top club who is going through a dip - he will do well to catch the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson, Guardiola and Wenger - all very successful managers who will at times react to the same questions been asked .

At times they will break and will react back - you could even say it’s human 

A manager will be happy when doing well and will be miserable and snappy when things aren’t going so well 

Here he is a bit calmer with things 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358720571488546816


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I have never seen a top manager who is happy when his team is obviously struggling.
		
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That doesn't mean you rip into a reporter and tell them they've got it wrong when actually they haven't. He's made himself look a total tit.


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂

Have you ever seen your manager in an interview 😂😂

And Klopp is reacting the same as any other previous manager in a top club who is going through a dip - he will do well to catch the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson, Guardiola and Wenger - all very successful managers who will at times react to the same questions been asked .

At times they will break and will react back - you could even say it’s human

A manager will be happy when doing well and will be miserable and snappy when things aren’t going so well

Here he is a bit calmer with things


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358720571488546816

Click to expand...

If you think I've got some loyalty to Mourinho and that I'm supposed to defend him in some way then you're barking up the wrong tree.

The guy asking the question in that video was so careful to word it in nice fluffy language, he obviously knows he's walking on eggshells.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That doesn't mean you rip into a reporter and tell them they've got it wrong when actually they haven't. He's made himself look a total tit.
		
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That reporter is probably very happy.
This is the exact reaction they try and get with their stupid questions.
“ well Mr Klopp how happy are you getting beat by City”
His editor is happy with all this publicity.
Klopp not the first won’t be the last.


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That reporter is probably very happy.
This is the exact reaction they try and get with their stupid questions.
“ well Mr Klopp how happy are you getting beat by City”
His editor is happy with all this publicity.
Klopp not the first won’t be the last.
		
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I don't think he said that did he? He was just asking if they still have hope of winning the title or not. It's a perfectly standard question in that scenario. Obviously yes the media team will be delighted they got such a ridiculous reaction from no provocation at all.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂

Have you ever seen your manager in an interview 😂😂

And Klopp is reacting the same as any other previous manager in a top club who is going through a dip - he will do well to catch the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson, Guardiola and Wenger - all very successful managers who will at times react to the same questions been asked .

At times they will break and will react back - you could even say it’s human

A manager will be happy when doing well and will be miserable and snappy when things aren’t going so well

Here he is a bit calmer with things


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358720571488546816

Click to expand...

It is 10pts tho🤷‍♂️😊


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think he said that did he? He was just asking if they still have hope of winning the title or not. It's a perfectly standard question in that scenario. Obviously yes the media team will be delighted they got such a ridiculous reaction from no provocation at all.
		
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Don’t know I don’t do Twitter.
Really it’s just football nobody likes getting beaten.
But if he didn’t do the interview he would be criticised for that as well.
What would be a good answer from any manager?
“No we can’t win it now” that’s a great incentive to his players.
Managers should give it a few hours before doing interviews.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Don’t know I don’t do Twitter.
Really it’s just football nobody likes getting beaten.
But if he didn’t do the interview he would be criticised for that as well.
What would be a good answer from any manager?
“No we can’t win it now” that’s a great incentive to his players.
Managers should give it a few hours before doing interviews.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with you doing twitter or not, press play on the link above and watch!

Otherwise you are making it up!


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Don’t know I don’t do Twitter.
Really it’s just football nobody likes getting beaten.
But if he didn’t do the interview he would be criticised for that as well.
What would be a good answer from any manager?
“No we can’t win it now” that’s a great incentive to his players.
Managers should give it a few hours before doing interviews.
		
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A good answer would be maybe not abusing the reporter for getting something wrong when actually he wasn't wrong at all!


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Nothing to do with you doing twitter or not, press play on the link above and watch!

Otherwise you are making it up!
		
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No I won’t accept their cookie policy so it won’t play.
Don’t have to make it up .
Most q and a between managers and reporters is standard stuff.
One game at a time etc.
It’s football garbage and not to be taken to seriously.
All managers do it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			No I won’t accept their cookie policy so it won’t play.
Don’t have to make it up .
Most q and a between managers and reporters is standard stuff.
One game at a time etc.
It’s football garbage and not to be taken to seriously.
All managers do it.
		
Click to expand...

Rubbish! In this particular instance the reporter politely asks now it’s a 10 point gap does klopp think, and before he says another word Klopp interrupts him and starts beratting him for not doing his job and being prepared as it’s a 13 point gap, Klopps wrong, the reporter was correct.

As for when managers are interviewed, non moan when they win


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			A good answer would be maybe not abusing the reporter for getting something wrong when actually he wasn't wrong at all! 

Click to expand...

Sure the reporter wasn’t to upset about his scoop.
He’s done his job well to get a reaction.
But Klopp might think he was wrong ,
You think he wasn’t ,that’s football.
Didn’t Pep take some stick last year for constantly saying they couldn’t catch Liverpool and conceding the title a bit early.
Klopp shouldn’t lose his temper but who cares really.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sure the reporter wasn’t to upset about his scoop.
He’s done his job well to get a reaction.
But Klopp might think he was wrong ,
You think he wasn’t ,that’s football.
Didn’t Pep take some stick last year for constantly saying they couldn’t catch Liverpool and conceding the title a bit early.
Klopp shouldn’t lose his temper but who cares really.
		
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Here’s the transcript of the interview, I’ve praised Klopp on here and his honesty, this was just rude!

Reporter Niv Dovrat of Israeli TV station Sport 1 asked Klopp if his side could catch Man City with his Liverpool side 10 points behind.
Klopp though was not very receptive too the question and said Dovrat should “prepare for your job better”.

Klopp told Dovrat: “I really think you should prepare your job better to be honest. How can you ask that?
“They are 13 points away, in my understanding, and these questions about becoming champions – do you really think that’s appropriate at the moment.”
Despite Dovrat being factually correct, Klopp then tried to insist hat Dovrat was not allowed to ask anything else as his two allocated questions were used up.
“We have only two questions and you waste one for that. Your fault, you had only two questions.
“Your fault, you had only two questions, you had only two questions,” added Klopp with a smirk.

“You had only two questions and the second one you wasted it.

Journalist Dovrat defended his questions to Klopp on Monday morning and claimed the Reds boss’ angry response was “unusual”.
He tweeted: “I have interviewed the Liverpool manager dozens of times over the past few years. Last night, I was exposed to a different and unusual response.
“Looking back, I think the style, manner and tone of the question were appropriate. The manager disagreed with me.”


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2021)

He had just been beaten by his biggest rival.
The reporter obviously got to him.
It’s a disagreement as the reporter says.
He might apologise but dought it.
To be honest it sounds like a Trump interview.
But that’s football it’s a disagreement and we all know how they usually pan out.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 9, 2021)

Liverpool fans relax, its hard to maintain the standards you held for 3 years in a row, almost impossible. 

Many city faultered last year, this is simply your year of doing the same.

A good summer window, couple of fresh faces in and you'll challenge again. Have faith in Klopp, hes one of the good guys. I imagine the pressures are all just mounting on him a bit at the moment as now its expected that you'll win trophies - it wasnt 2 years ago.

Great league this year, fully enjoying Villa's performances, I miss being in those stands every week. 

P.S 7-2... can't not throw that in there


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sure the reporter wasn’t to upset about his scoop.
He’s done his job well to get a reaction.
*But Klopp might think he was wrong ,
You think he wasn’t ,that’s football.*
Didn’t Pep take some stick last year for constantly saying they couldn’t catch Liverpool and conceding the title a bit early.
Klopp shouldn’t lose his temper but who cares really.
		
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Since when are numerical facts a matter of opinion?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Liverpool fans relax, its hard to maintain the standards you held for 3 years in a row, almost impossible.

Many city faultered last year, this is simply your year of doing the same.

A good summer window, couple of fresh faces in and you'll challenge again. Have faith in Klopp, hes one of the good guys. I imagine the pressures are all just mounting on him a bit at the moment as now its expected that you'll win trophies - it wasnt 2 years ago.

Great league this year, fully enjoying Villa's performances, I miss being in those stands every week.

P.S 7-2... can't not throw that in there 

Click to expand...

Klopp isn’t the problem, he’s a superb manager, it’s the cult following that can’t accept he’s just a human being.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Since when are numerical facts a matter of opinion? 

Click to expand...

Does it really matter ? Klopp had a rant - so what ? A Premier League manager having a rant and a pop is not exactly ground breaking news and it’s a situation that has been happening for 30 years. 

In regards the 10/13 points maybe some lost in translation as City are 10 points ahead with a game in hand hence the comment “his understanding” or maybe not but does it really matter.


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Does it really matter ? Klopp had a rant - so what ? A Premier League manager having a rant and a pop is not exactly ground breaking news and it’s a situation that has been happening for 30 years.

In regards the 10/13 points maybe some lost in translation as City are 10 points ahead with a game in hand hence the comment “his understanding” or maybe not but does it really matter.
		
Click to expand...

Well none of this actually _matters_, we might as well delete the thread and have done with if you're going to take that attitude.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Since when are numerical facts a matter of opinion? 

Click to expand...

When you have got them wrong ! Like Klopp.
As Phil says he’s counting the game in hand as can’t see City losing atm.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Liverpool fans relax, its hard to maintain the standards you held for 3 years in a row, almost impossible.

Many city faultered last year, this is simply your year of doing the same.

A good summer window, couple of fresh faces in and you'll challenge again. Have faith in Klopp, hes one of the good guys. I imagine the pressures are all just mounting on him a bit at the moment as now its expected that you'll win trophies - it wasnt 2 years ago.

Great league this year, fully enjoying Villa's performances, I miss being in those stands every week.

P.S 7-2... can't not throw that in there 

Click to expand...

That’s just a kick in the nuts.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well none of this actually _matters_, we might as well delete the thread and have done with if you're going to take that attitude.
		
Click to expand...

Personally think there is a massive difference between having a "rant" and belittling and being rude to someone doing their job

Like his attuide to the fixtures which whilst correct he took it out on the employee not the people who make the calls 

It's like going to a restaurant .. finding out they decided to change the menu and having a go at the waiter..clearly his fault


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Does it really matter ? Klopp had a rant - so what ? A Premier League manager having a rant and a pop is not exactly ground breaking news and it’s a situation that has been happening for 30 years.

In regards the 10/13 points maybe some lost in translation as City are 10 points ahead with a game in hand hence the comment “his understanding” or maybe not but does it really matter.
		
Click to expand...

We’re just dealing in facts here Phil,the reporter was right,10 pts 👍🏻👍🏻


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Personally think there is a massive difference between having a "rant" and belittling and being rude to someone doing their job

Like his attuide to the fixtures which whilst correct he took it out on the employee not the people who make the calls

It's like going to a restaurant .. finding out they decided to change the menu and having a go at the waiter..clearly his fault
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I totally agree with that. People will excuse him saying it's a stressful job and tough being interviewed directly after the match and whatnot, but the guy asking the questions is just trying to do his job as well. If you ask a stupid question you deserve a short answer, but I don't think that was the case here - or the time when he harangued the BT guy for the BT schedule.


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## AmandaJR (Feb 9, 2021)

For me with Klopp it's the smiley, happy as Larry, toothy facade when things are going well. All jokey and "hey I'm so chilled". He irritates the hell out of me as it appears so false - think his true colours showed a bit more in that interview.

I'm biased but I can't recall Pep ever being so "jolly" whether we win, lose or draw. I do think he pretty much shows his true colours and doesn't play silly games.

Or maybe it's Klopp's dentist to blame


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			For me with Klopp it's the smiley, happy as Larry, toothy facade when things are going well. All jokey and "hey I'm so chilled". He irritates the hell out of me as it appears so false - think his true colours showed a bit more in that interview.

I'm biased but I can't recall Pep ever being so "jolly" whether we win, lose or draw. I do think he pretty much shows his true colours and doesn't play silly games.

Or maybe it's Klopp's dentist to blame 

Click to expand...

Maybe Peps just a better actor / media presence.
Reporters are just doing their job but if Klopp just said “no” there’s no story.
But no excuse for being so rude . Just watched it.
There all different .

I don’t like Pep spitting all the time he does it more than the players even when he’s sitting down.
Atm that’s a health hazard.


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## Kellfire (Feb 9, 2021)

The leaked tape of Saliba is totally ridiculous. How does anyone get in that situation?


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## AmandaJR (Feb 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe Peps just a better actor / media presence.
Reporters are just doing their job but if Klopp just said “no” there’s no story.
But no excuse for being so rude . Just watched it.
There all different .

I don’t like Pep spitting all the time he does it more than the players even when he’s sitting down.
Atm that’s a health hazard.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure Pep knows how to display anything but geniune emotion BUT do agree about the spitting. It's weird how he seems to always have a teeny bit of spittle to get rid of. Could be a dry mouth caused by the stress of managing City but hey just swallow it!


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## Rlburnside (Feb 9, 2021)

Don’t know what all the fuss is about Paul and fundys spat last night was a lot worse 😂 😱


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## Slime (Feb 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The video was moderated because of a swearword in the tweet I think. Here is a new version without that:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358816243369857026

Click to expand...

Condescending, patronising and plain rude.


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## Slime (Feb 9, 2021)

0-0 after 90 minutes ........................................... nothing to see here.


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## Slime (Feb 9, 2021)

Ah, Scott McDominate, right on cue.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 10, 2021)

Klopps mother has passed away and he is unable to attend the funeral due to Covid restrictions 

Could explain his demeanour the other night

Sad news for him 😢


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## pauljames87 (Feb 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopps mother has passed away and he is unable to attend the funeral due to Covid restrictions 

Could explain his demeanour the other night

Sad news for him 😢
		
Click to expand...

Interesting. We have a new trainee At work who we not sure about as he keeps telling us stories that are bit untrue 

He is off this week due to his grandad dying and him jetting off to Europe then isolating when he gets back ... Yet klopp can't?

Just like he told us he did a city trading job and told someone else he went uni and then tried to tell us he is only 20

Funny we don't employ people under 18 and I know you been here 4 years at least

Sympathy for klopp


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 10, 2021)

Slime said:



			0-0 after 90 minutes ........................................... nothing to see here.
		
Click to expand...

Thought this looked like a decent game so I had a rare watch of an English game.
My eyes are still bleeding.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 10, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Thought this looked like a decent game so I had a rare watch of an English game.
My eyes are still bleeding.
		
Click to expand...


Too many injuries ruined any flow


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopps mother has passed away and he is unable to attend the funeral due to Covid restrictions

Could explain his demeanour the other night

Sad news for him 😢
		
Click to expand...

That’s really sad.
But how can he travel in CL games but can’t go home? “Genuine question “
I know it’s bubbles and all that but would he need 2 weeks isolation if he leaves the bubble.
Must be horrible to miss your own mums funeral, feel for him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s really sad.
But how can he travel in CL games but can’t go home? “Genuine question “
I know it’s bubbles and all that but would he need 2 weeks isolation if he leaves the bubble.
Must be horrible to miss your own mums funeral, feel for him.
		
Click to expand...

I believe away games, CL, in Germany are being changed to neutral countries because of the problems. As you say, sad.


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## AmandaJR (Feb 10, 2021)

Very sad for Klopp. I would think the regulations allow for him to travel but may need to self isolate for 10 days on his return.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 10, 2021)

Theres a fair bit of talk about how Klopp got a bit riled by a reporters questions. He lost his mother on Jan 19th yet kept it quiet. He has gone through a tough couple of months with what’s happening at Liverpool. Some fans are questioning whether Klopp should be manager. Then he gets  bit tetchy in an interview. My simplistic view is give him a break. I remember when Pep was asked if City could go unbeaten all season after about 12 games a few years back. He was heard to mutter “FFS”. 
Thoughts with you Mr Klopp.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 10, 2021)

Great watch Everton v Spurs , Spurs playing 100% better than against Chelsea but 3-1 down, going to be good second half.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 10, 2021)

Make that 3-2


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## Slime (Feb 10, 2021)

Sounds like it was a great game for the neutral.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 10, 2021)

Slime said:



			Sounds like it was a great game for the neutral.
		
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Some shocking defending.
End to end very good game.
Penalty was harsh imo it was accidental.


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## Orikoru (Feb 11, 2021)

I didn't really watch the game last night. Missed our early goal, put it on to see three Everton goals, thought the penalty was an absolute joke so I just switched it off. Checked it later to see we lost, conceded five goals, and played extra time to knacker the lads out when we only have two days between games. Pretty much worse case scenario ahead of playing City this weekend.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 11, 2021)

*FA Cup quarter-final*
Barnsley/Chelsea v Sheffield United
Leicester v Manchester United

Bournemouth v Southampton

Everton v Manchester City



oh that’s a tasty draw


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## IainP (Feb 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



*FA Cup quarter-final*
Barnsley/Chelsea v Sheffield United
Leicester v Manchester United

Bournemouth v Southampton

Everton v Manchester City



oh that’s a tasty draw
		
Click to expand...

I'm intrigued by the





😉🙂


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359937244732268554
😂😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Feb 11, 2021)

IainP said:



			I'm intrigued by the





😉🙂
		
Click to expand...

I copied and pasted it from the BBC site, sweet mother t took me five mins to edit it


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## USER1999 (Feb 11, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			The leaked tape of Saliba is totally ridiculous. How does anyone get in that situation?
		
Click to expand...

It is sad that his advisers are not telling him to back off the social media, and behave in interviews. Better to let his footy do the talking at this stage in his career.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



*FA Cup quarter-final*
Barnsley/Chelsea v Sheffield United
Leicester v Manchester United

Bournemouth v Southampton

Everton v Manchester City



oh that’s a tasty draw
		
Click to expand...

Not from where I'm sat 😒


----------



## SaintHacker (Feb 11, 2021)

I'll take that, although if we get through that will be as far as we go i reckon


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 13, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360570668782243844
Shocking


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2021)

Var 🤬

Then that 🤦‍♂️


----------



## SteveW86 (Feb 13, 2021)

What a collapse!

And that doesn’t include the worldy save after the 2nd


----------



## hairball_89 (Feb 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Var 🤬

Then that 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Awful. Alison has to leave that to the centre back. Terrible decision.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 13, 2021)

Blimey 😳😂😂😂😂
Wouldn’t like to be interviewing Klopp 😂😂


----------



## SteveW86 (Feb 13, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Blimey 😳😂😂😂😂
Wouldn’t like to be interviewing Klopp 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Are they 10,13 or 16 points behind now?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 13, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Are they 10,13 or 16 points behind now?
		
Click to expand...

Who knows 🤷‍♂️😂😂


----------



## GG26 (Feb 13, 2021)

...and we didn’t even play well.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 13, 2021)

Controlled the game for 80 mins but very wasteful with the final ball.
But in the end we were lucky it wasn’t more.
Shocking from the keeper, let the CB deal with it if he dosnt the striker still has to beat him.


----------



## SteveW86 (Feb 13, 2021)

West Ham, Chelsea and Everton all “should” win this weekend which would leave Liverpool 7th on Monday evening.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Awful. Alison has to leave that to the centre back. Terrible decision.
		
Click to expand...

We could probably do a deal on Jordan for you 😆


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Awful. Alison has to leave that to the centre back. Terrible decision.
		
Click to expand...

Can only be a communication issue between the two - Alisson can come for it but has to make sure that Kabak knows


----------



## SteveW86 (Feb 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Controlled the game for 80 mins but very wasteful with the final ball.
But in the end we were lucky it wasn’t more.
Shocking from the keeper, let the CB deal with it if he dosnt the striker still has to beat him.
		
Click to expand...

Without any crowd, I would have expected to have heard Allison’s shout that he was coming for the ball. If he has done that then the defender should be nowhere near it, but I’m not sure he did shout.

Looking at Allison’s starting position I didn’t think it was unreasonable for him to come for it, he was there well before the Leicester player.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2021)

I know Liverpool aren't having a good season .. but we could go above them Monday with a win .. level on games ..  that's just amazing to think for us anyways


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2021)

I just don’t understand VAR anymore 

This is the still they used 

Using the head now for the line ? Not the knee or the sleeve ? Has it changed and it seems this still that ball hadn’t been played yet - a split second before


----------



## SteveW86 (Feb 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 35002

I just don’t understand VAR anymore

This is the still they used

Using the head now for the line ? Not the knee or the sleeve ? Has it changed and it seems this still that ball hadn’t been played yet - a split second before
		
Click to expand...

Are they using his head or the edge of his shoulder?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2021)

Foot isn't it?


----------



## sawtooth (Feb 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can only be a communication issue between the two - Alisson can come for it but has to make sure that Kabak knows
		
Click to expand...

Looked like Kabak was going to clear it tbf but boy did he look slow when tracking back for Leicester’s 3rd. No wonder he was available.😳


----------



## SteveW86 (Feb 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Foot isn't it?
		
Click to expand...

Looks like Firminio foot and Leicester players head/shoulder to me


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Are they using his head or the edge of his shoulder?
		
Click to expand...

It looks like one of those so maybe they have changed because for months it was the sleeve of the shirt ?



sawtooth said:



			Looked like Kabak was going to clear it tbf but boy did he look slow when tracking back for Leicester’s 3rd. No wonder he was available.😳
		
Click to expand...

Only his first game in the Prem and was solid all game until the clash with Alisson


----------



## SteveW86 (Feb 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It looks like one of those so maybe they have changed because for months it was the sleeve of the shirt ?
		
Click to expand...

Either way, I thought a penalty should have been given.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 13, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Are they 10,13 or 16 points behind now?
		
Click to expand...

That makes it 16 in #KloppMaths.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Either way, I thought a penalty should have been given.
		
Click to expand...

For the Thiago challenge ? It looked outside from all the replays ?




How is the line from Firminos foot going through the knee of the Leicester player 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 13, 2021)

sawtooth said:



			Looked like Kabak was going to clear it tbf but boy did he look slow when tracking back for Leicester’s 3rd. No wonder he was available.😳
		
Click to expand...

Available from a team that only has 8 points all season.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 13, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Without any crowd, I would have expected to have heard Allison’s shout that he was coming for the ball. If he has done that then the defender should be nowhere near it, but I’m not sure he did shout.

Looking at Allison’s starting position I didn’t think it was unreasonable for him to come for it, he was there well before the Leicester player.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but so was the CB ! No need for the keeper imo.
At 0-1 We should have shut up shop ,two banks of four and make them come out ,leave two up front.
The only danger was the ball over the top, or free kicks.
Tiago really needs to stop giving stupid free kicks away.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Looks like Firminio foot and Leicester players head/shoulder to me
		
Click to expand...

I didn't see the game so I don't know how this incident played out. I don't even know who is attacking. Based on that angle I'd call that level and crack on. What was the actual decision? Did they have other angles to go off that were clearer?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I didn't see the game so I don't know how this incident played out. I don't even know who is attacking. Based on that angle I'd call that level and crack on. What was the actual decision? Did they have other angles to go off that were clearer?
		
Click to expand...

They scored straight from the free kick .
The problem is where they measure the lines from .
I thought it was his armpit unless another part is off foot, knee etc.
If that’s the one they used it’s really poor they should have one more inline in a PL ground.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			They scored straight from the free kick .
The problem is where they measure the lines from .
I thought it was his armpit unless another part is off foot, knee etc.
If that’s the one they used it’s really poor they should have one more inline in a PL ground.
		
Click to expand...

So liverpool are wanting an offside against Leicester based on that picture? Nothing clear and obvious based on that alone unless I'm missing something.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			So liverpool are wanting an offside against Leicester based on that picture? Nothing clear and obvious based on that alone unless I'm missing something.
		
Click to expand...

It was given as offside by the linesman

The judged the player level because of Firminos foot in var

But the lines they used -

The still was just before the ball was played

The line on the Leicester player appears to not be on the point closest to the goal - if they used that then it would be in front of the line they used on Firminos foot

Doesn’t excuse the folding after Leicester scored even though there was also a clear foul in the build up for the second 

Just seems everything going wrong at the moment and confidence is shot - until the first goal it was looking good. Add in another three injuries now as well


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I didn't see the game so I don't know how this incident played out. I don't even know who is attacking. Based on that angle I'd call that level and crack on. What was the actual decision? Did they have other angles to go off that were clearer?
		
Click to expand...

This is why they need to decide by eye rather than lines. It feels so stupid to debate where a line needs to be drawn when you can simply watch the replay in slow motion and see if it they look level or not. It really could be that simple. If it takes this long to work it out with the lines then he's level. End of.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 13, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360621601893593092
WARNING-contains bad language 😂😂😂😂


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 13, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360621601893593092
WARNING-contains bad language 😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Best keeper in the world apparently


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Best keeper in the world apparently
		
Click to expand...

Definitely 😂😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 13, 2021)

Who ever thinks of them 😂😂😂


----------



## Piece (Feb 13, 2021)

Someone who is great at untying knots is urgently needed at the Etihad as Sanchez is in a bad way 😎


----------



## Jensen (Feb 13, 2021)

Jose replaces Lucas Moura for Sissoko at 1-0 down. Mourinho must be trying to hold out for a 1-0 defeat 🤣🤣
Tactical magician....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2021)

Piece said:



			Someone who is great at untying knots is urgently needed at the Etihad as Sanchez is in a bad way 😎
		
Click to expand...

You could hear the disgust in Carragher's voice.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			So liverpool are wanting an offside against Leicester based on that picture? Nothing clear and obvious based on that alone unless I'm missing something.
		
Click to expand...

Not really VAR is a joke it’s virtually impossible to be level.
Your on or off , but imo the attacker should get the benefit of the dought.
But as Phil says there seems to be no consistent placement of the lines.
It was more the time it took for VAR to decide it wasn’t a penalty ,then if he was onside .
It takes far to long and the players are just standing getting cold.
We went to pieces after that decision.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			So liverpool are wanting an offside against Leicester based on that picture? Nothing clear and obvious based on that alone unless I'm missing something.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly so should go with the Lino’s decision .
I thought they only changed it if it was clear and obvious?


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Exactly so should go with the Lino’s decision .
I thought they only changed it if it was clear and obvious?
		
Click to expand...

That's not what they said or decided at any point with var

Clear and obvious only for missed fouls etc 

All goals will be checked for offside, we had one against us given offside then given by var, just one them things


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 13, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			That's not what they said or decided at any point with var

Clear and obvious only for missed fouls etc

All goals will be checked for offside, we had one against us given offside then given by var, just one them things
		
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I think when it’s that tight the benefit should go to the attack anyway .
VAR is causing more problems than it’s solving for me.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 13, 2021)

Simple answer is to take away thw lines, then it has to be a clear and obvious decision. Whilst you could argue that the lines show its probably onside by a toenail, without the lines just using the picture alone no one would be upset at that being given offside. Do what they do in cricket, if its not obvious, umpires call.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 13, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Simple answer is to take away thw lines, then it has to be a clear and obvious decision. Whilst you could argue that the lines show its probably onside by a toenail, without the lines just using the picture alone no one would be upset at that being given offside. Do what they do in cricket, if its not obvious, umpires call.
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree 
Offside is black and white but players can’t see if their shirt sleeve is offside.
Ruling out goals for toenails offside is just a joke.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 13, 2021)

Cracking result for Burnley, and loved Lowton’s goal.
Though the way he knocked the full back over, I think some may want a yellow card if Farrell had done it!


----------



## fundy (Feb 13, 2021)

Klopp odds on to be next manager to leave with one book, surely #kloppout wont win 

Moaninho 2nd fav, again cant see how that happens before the end of the season.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 14, 2021)

Any one seen Stu La?
His banter was brilliant last season “unbearables”.
I miss it 😊


----------



## Slime (Feb 14, 2021)

United bought a young lad called Charlie McNeill from Man City last summer.
Yesterday the U18's beat Man City 4-2.
Guess who scored all four of United's goals?

Yup, you're right.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			United bought a young lad called Charlie McNeill from Man City last summer.
Yesterday the U18's beat Man City 4-2.
Guess who scored all four of United's goals?

Yup, you're right.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...rom-man-city&usg=AOvVaw02Fq0ljvSz16UR-RYpPftC



Yup he was a class act been at the city academy for quite a few years, since 2013. think he scored over 600 goals. Lovely photo of him kissing the badge 👍


----------



## Slime (Feb 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjvz86ghunuAhWGRxUIHU2tC1oQFjACegQIAhAC&url=https://www.teamtalk.com/news/man-utd-sign-charlie-mcneil-from-man-city&usg=AOvVaw02Fq0ljvSz16UR-RYpPftC



Yup he was a class act been at the city academy for quite a few years, since 2013. think he scored over 600 goals. *Lovely photo of him kissing the badge *👍
		
Click to expand...

He's a United supporter.
I didn't realise he was originally at United.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			He's a United supporter.
I didn't realise he was originally at United.
		
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My lad was following the academy and mentioned him a few times. Said it would be bad if City let him go, the thing is though he is Utd through and through in the same way Foden is City. If he has a chance for scoring in front of Stratford in a Utd shirt.He is only going one way. I remember Ronaldo when he was moving to Real Madrid, he was slated, But as a kid growing up, he had Madrid posters on his bedroom wall he was a Madrid fan. Good luck to the lad.


----------



## Slime (Feb 14, 2021)

Hilarious start ................................... soooooo Man United.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			Hilarious start ................................... soooooo Man United.
		
Click to expand...

1-3 Utd then 👍


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2021)

This Fernandes kid might just make it.


----------



## Slime (Feb 14, 2021)

Fantastic strike ................................ soooooo Bruno Fernandes!


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 14, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			This Fernandes kid might just make it.
		
Click to expand...


Don't think he is suited to this league 🤣


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't think he is suited to this league 🤣
		
Click to expand...

If he was any good he’d have been bought sooner!


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 14, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			If he was any good he’d have been bought sooner!
		
Click to expand...

You got to wonder how players don't come on teams radars sooner

Soucek and coufal for us this season (and last for soucek) been outstanding

One is 25 the other 28.. yet never heard of them before they signed ..


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2021)

Embarrassing penalty appeal that.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 14, 2021)

Poor decision by VAR. McGuire was offside so it doesn't matter whether it was a foul or not. Aside from that a couple of the West Brom players were a disgrace with their protests. A penalty has been given and will be reviewed by VAR. Why are you yelling at the ref and having to be pulled away by your teammates?


----------



## Piece (Feb 14, 2021)

Tasty save at the death that.


----------



## Slime (Feb 14, 2021)

Easy to see why West Brom are where they are in the league.
Struggling to see why United are where they are in the league!

Jeez, the league must be poor this season.


----------



## Junior (Feb 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			Hilarious start ................................... soooooo Man United.
		
Click to expand...

Weird how they didn’t mention the palm in the face till halftime.  Even Souness said it was a foul.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 14, 2021)

David Luiz. Why? Arteta, he will get you sacked. Don't keep picking him.

Don't get Cedric at LB. Tierney injured, play Saka, with Martinelli in front.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 14, 2021)

Blatant dive by the young lad there. 
good thing that pen was overturned.

Stay on your feet!


----------



## Slime (Feb 14, 2021)

Junior said:



			Weird how they didn’t mention the palm in the face till halftime.  Even Souness said it was a foul.
		
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Of course it was a foul, but complaining about a decision against my own team generally doesn't end well!
Too many ABUs around.

I have noticed how the L'pool lads have stopped taking the piss so much, I can't think why.


----------



## fundy (Feb 14, 2021)

Nice to have Aubameyang back  

Leeds been truly awful but we'll take all the gifts we can get


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 14, 2021)

Luiz. Useless. Again.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			Of course it was a foul, but complaining about a decision against my own team generally doesn't end well!
Too many ABUs around.

I have noticed how the L'pool lads have stopped taking the piss so much, I can't think why. 

Click to expand...

Not all of them 👍


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2021)

Absolutely worst performance of the season, beaten by the better team who out played us in every aspect.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 14, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Absolutely worst performance of the season, beaten by the better team who out played us in every aspect.
		
Click to expand...

Every time we get in a position to push top 4 we bring out a stinking performance. It's happened a few times this season. It's as though they are afraid to go there.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 14, 2021)

On my grapevine Klopps quit.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			On my grapevine Klopps quit.
		
Click to expand...

It’s just a continuation of the fake rumours that were posted yesterday generated from a Manc account  - the messages also had claims about fights between Alisson and Robertson etc etc


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 14, 2021)

Junior said:



			Weird how they didn’t mention the palm in the face till halftime.  Even Souness said it was a foul.
		
Click to expand...

And me.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Every time we get in a position to push top 4 we bring out a stinking performance. It's happened a few times this season. It's as though they are afraid to go there.
		
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Not even that for me mate, it’s almost as if they think they can turn up and certain teams will roll over, bring one of the Clubs near the top and we can turn up.


----------



## SaintHacker (Feb 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			On my grapevine Klopps quit.
		
Click to expand...

With those banners being put up outside anfield earlier can you blame him?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s just a continuation of the fake rumours that were posted yesterday generated from a Manc account  - the messages also had claims about fights between Alisson and Robertson etc etc
		
Click to expand...

Not so sure this time.
We will have to wait and see.


----------



## fundy (Feb 14, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			With those banners being put up outside anfield earlier can you blame him?
		
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what did the best fans in the world say on those banners?

sorry wrong account


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 14, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			With those banners being put up outside anfield earlier can you blame him?
		
Click to expand...

What do you mean?


----------



## SaintHacker (Feb 14, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			What do you mean?
		
Click to expand...

I saw a pic of people putting up Klopp out banners, looks like it might have been a photoshop job. My bad, disregard...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Every time we get in a position to push top 4 we bring out a stinking performance. It's happened a few times this season. It's as though they are afraid to go there.
		
Click to expand...

Looks like Fulham got Everton’s tactics out that stolen safe.
We’re they as bad as MOTD made them look.?


----------



## fundy (Feb 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Looks like Fulham got Everton’s tactics out that stolen safe.
We’re they as bad as MOTD made them look.?
		
Click to expand...

didnt see match of the day but Everton were utterly horrific. Looked like their players had been out with Villa and Leeds earlier in the week


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			didnt see match of the day but Everton were utterly horrific. Looked like their players had been out with Villa and Leeds earlier in the week 

Click to expand...

Sometimes the MOTD coverage can’t be relied on to tell the whole story.


----------



## fundy (Feb 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sometimes the MOTD coverage can’t be relied on to tell the whole story.
		
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if it portrayed anything other than Fulham being by far the better side and shouldve won by more than they did then it was wrong


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not so sure this time.
We will have to wait and see.
		
Click to expand...

It’s the same - and it’s shame that people are believing it - it’s all nonsense being spread by Everton and Man Utd fans 

This is great from Winter 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360697956056379401



fundy said:



			what did the best fans in the world say on those banners?

sorry wrong account 

Click to expand...

They said this


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			if it portrayed anything other than Fulham being by far the better side and shouldve won by more than they did then it was wrong 

Click to expand...

No that’s exactly what it did.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Looks like Fulham got Everton’s tactics out that stolen safe.
We’re they as bad as MOTD made them look.?
		
Click to expand...

I don't have bt sport so thankfully I didn't sit through it. I followed it on the BBC sport website, they do a text commentary that is often quite funny as well as mentioning the key points, and that made Everton sound pretty horrific. I don't think there was any hiding from that performance. Hopefully it's out of the system before the weekend 😁


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2021)

Rent Free


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			On my grapevine Klopps quit.
		
Click to expand...

😳


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't have bt sport so thankfully I didn't sit through it. I followed it on the BBC sport website, they do a text commentary that is often quite funny as well as mentioning the key points, and that made Everton sound pretty horrific. I don't think there was any hiding from that performance. Hopefully it's out of the system before the weekend 😁
		
Click to expand...

They just looked dead on their legs.
Think the Spurs game just took to much out of them.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			They just looked dead on their legs.
Think the Spurs game just took to much out of them.
		
Click to expand...

It's possible. The season is relentless right now, our squad is not that deep to allow for much rotation and there is no crowd to lift the players when they are feeling sluggish.

Thankfully we only have City on Wednesday and the derby on Saturday so plenty of chance to rest, recover and rotate


----------



## hairball_89 (Feb 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's possible. The season is relentless right now, our squad is not that deep to allow for much rotation and there is no crowd to lift the players when they are feeling sluggish.

Thankfully we only have City on Wednesday and the derby on Saturday so plenty of chance to rest, recover and rotate 

Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry too much about Saturday. DCL against whoever we decide to play at CB shouldn't too much of a fight!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			I wouldn't worry too much about Saturday. DCL against whoever we decide to play at CB shouldn't too much of a fight!
		
Click to expand...

We have to get him fit first of all!

After then can we choose? The lad from Preston tempts me but I fancy Henderson back there even more. Then again the fella who had a nice chat with Allison on Saturday could be useful .

Based on both current form should we take a point now and move on? Gentlemans agreement


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We have to get him fit first of all!

After then can we choose? The lad from Preston tempts me but I fancy Henderson back there even more. Then again the fella who had a nice chat with Allison on Saturday could be useful .

Based on both current form should we take a point now and move on? Gentlemans agreement 

Click to expand...

Don’t worry mate, there’ll be a few of them coming out the of woodwork when they beat us in the Derby, I reckon the mods must block their access to this thread when they lose.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not so sure this time.
We will have to wait and see.
		
Click to expand...

As can be seen in his Press Conference his quitting was nothing but social media rumours spreading - same with the fake whats apps and the photoshopped banner on the gates 

He seemed in good spirits which was good to see and looked like he enjoyed the distraction from the Prem with the focus on the CL - hopefully can be a week to show that even a massively depleted team can still be in that Top 4


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As can be seen in his Press Conference his quitting was nothing but social media rumours spreading - same with the fake whats apps and the photoshopped banner on the gates

He seemed in good spirits which was good to see and looked like he enjoyed the distraction from the Prem with the focus on the CL - hopefully can be a week to show that even a massively depleted team can still be in that Top 4
		
Click to expand...

Hope your right.
But somethings not quite right.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Hope your right.
But somethings not quite right.
		
Click to expand...

In what way ?

He has just lost his mother and was unable to go to a funeral to say goodbye

His team is suffering unprecedented injuries not seen before when it comes to key players and he is having to fend of the same level of questions every single day -it’s going to frustrate anyone to the point of snapping and it’s no surprise he was at times

Just need to look at the training pics - the players and the manager etc all look in good spirits


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361319356593041412
Henderson also laughed his head off at the rumours about Alisson and Robbo fighting


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Yeah, calling daft Internet gossip a "grapevine" 😜🤪
		
Click to expand...

That didn’t come off the internet ?
We don’t all rely on it.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In what way ?

He has just lost his mother and was unable to go to a funeral to say goodbye

His team is suffering unprecedented injuries not seen before when it comes to key players and he is having to fend of the same level of questions every single day -it’s going to frustrate anyone to the point of snapping and it’s no surprise he was at times

Just need to look at the training pics - the players and the manager etc all look in good spirits


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361319356593041412
*Henderson also laughed his head off at the rumours about Alisson and Robbo fighting*

Click to expand...

Said it made him chuckle 😂


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## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Don’t worry mate, there’ll be a few of them coming out the of woodwork when they beat us in the Derby, I reckon the mods must block their access to this thread when they lose.

Click to expand...

That’s a bit harsh, the internet may be down in certain parts of Merseyside 😳😉
If it’s not the internet, Fragger may want an early night on Friday.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That didn’t come off the internet ?
We don’t all rely on it.
		
Click to expand...

I can bet you that your “grapevine” maybe not the internet but the information you were being passed was started on the internet 

The photoshop was done by an Everton account with the signs , the what apps about the fights and Klopp quitting were started by people on social media spreading it then it moves across all formats including between mates with texts and whats apps and phone calls and just snowballs from there. 

And in the end it comes from different sources people then start to think it’s truth - it’s a perfect example of the power of social media


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## pauljames87 (Feb 15, 2021)

Our first pen of season taken away by var for offside 

Didn't think you could be offside once the keeper saved it and then your taken out? But really he shouldn't have been offside to start with. Shame


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can bet you that your “grapevine” maybe not the internet but the information you were being passed was started on the internet

The photoshop was done by an Everton account with the signs , the what apps about the fights and Klopp quitting were started by people on social media spreading it then it moves across all formats including between mates with texts and whats apps and phone calls and just snowballs from there.

And in the end it comes from different sources people then start to think it’s truth - it’s a perfect example of the power of social media
		
Click to expand...

You might be right , but you might be wrong.
We will have to wait and see.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 15, 2021)

Least we finally got that first pen of the season 

Lingard looks so sharp


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Least we finally got that first pen of the season

Lingard looks so sharp
		
Click to expand...

Shocking tackle though.
Was it really an attempt for the ball?
That long since you had a pen they forgot who takes them, Lingard anyway.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You might be right , but you might be wrong.
We will have to wait and see.
		
Click to expand...

🤦‍♂

You said your grapevine said he had quit 

He held a press conference today and laughed it all off - what do we have to wait and see about


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂

You said your grapevine said he had quit

He held a press conference today and laughed it all off - what do we have to wait and see about
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t put a date on it for a reason.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Shocking tackle though.
Was it really an attempt for the ball?
That long since you had a pen they forgot who takes them, Lingard anyway.

Click to expand...

Cracking result. Top 4 out of no where really

Long may it continue

Controversial.. but lingard is better than Antonio


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## SaintHacker (Feb 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Our first pen of season taken away by var for offside

Didn't think you could be offside once the keeper saved it and then your taken out? But really he shouldn't have been offside to start with. Shame
		
Click to expand...

They're making it up as they go, even the operators don't know what they're doing. I was all for VAR but its gone wrong, so unbelievably wrong for something that should be so simple, that its put me off football, the premier league at least.
If things don't change and improve next season I can seriously see me losing interest completely and just carry on supporting my local non league side


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## hairball_89 (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I didn’t put a date on it for a reason.
		
Click to expand...

Well he's definitely gonna quit at some point!


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Well he's definitely gonna quit at some point!
		
Click to expand...

Yes that’s at least one factually correct post.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			They're making it up as they go, even the operators don't know what they're doing. I was all for VAR but its gone wrong, so unbelievably wrong for something that should be so simple, that its put me off football, the premier league at least.
If things don't change and improve next season I can seriously see me losing interest completely and just carry on supporting my local non league side
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree the handball one in the wolves game was a shocker.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Don’t worry mate, there’ll be a few of them coming out the of woodwork when they beat us in the Derby, I reckon the mods must block their access to this thread when they lose.

Click to expand...

Rent free is the phrase, isn't it?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Rent free is the phrase, isn't it?
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely Pete.
Edit: You got a like as well Pete, sort of proves the Rent Free point.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 15, 2021)

Could equally be posted in the Random Irritations thread......

Chelsea forward is attacking and gets a (gentle) push from the Chelsea defender in the area and falls over. Ref doesn't give a foul. Newcastle are attacking and Carroll gives a gentle push on the Chelsea defender in the area who falls over. Ref gives a Chelsea free kick. Why does it seem that the rules are different depending on whether it's the attacking or defending team?


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Could equally be posted in the Random Irritations thread......

Chelsea forward is attacking and gets a (gentle) push from the Chelsea defender in the area and falls over. Ref doesn't give a foul. Newcastle are attacking and Carroll gives a gentle push on the Chelsea defender in the area who falls over. Ref gives a Chelsea free kick. Why does it seem that the rules are different depending on whether it's the attacking or defending team?
		
Click to expand...

You might need to proof read that.
If you push your own player it’s not a foul.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You might need to proof read that.
If you push your own player it’s not a foul.
		
Click to expand...




ColchesterFC said:



			Could equally be posted in the Random Irritations thread......

Chelsea forward is attacking and gets a (gentle) push from the *Newcastle* defender in the area and falls over. Ref doesn't give a foul. Newcastle are attacking and Carroll gives a gentle push on the Chelsea defender in the area who falls over. Ref gives a Chelsea free kick. Why does it seem that the rules are different depending on whether it's the attacking or defending team?
		
Click to expand...

Good point. Have edited it above rather than in the original post so that your post still makes sense. The edited version is what I should have typed. 

In my defense ...........Brandy + diet coke!!!!


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Good point. Have edited it above rather than in the original post so that your post still makes sense. The edited version is what I should have typed.

In my defense ...........Brandy + diet coke!!!! 

Click to expand...

Wouldn’t worry a lot of my posts don’t make sense,


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Wouldn’t worry a lot of my posts don’t make sense, 

Click to expand...

"Wouldn’t worry *almost all* of my posts don’t make sense, "

As editing posts in quotes in frowned upon I've corrected your post above.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Wouldn’t worry a lot of my posts don’t make sense, 

Click to expand...

am saying nothing about mine 🤔😁


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## Tashyboy (Feb 16, 2021)

Just had a look at teams fixtures down to Villa. I honestly do not have a clue who is going to finish in the champs league places. All teams have tough schedules where fixtures And results will be tough to call. Think there is going to be a few squeaky bum months ahead. 😁


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## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Just had a look at teams fixtures down to Villa. I honestly do not have a clue who is going to finish in the champs league places. All teams have tough schedules where fixtures And results will be tough to call. Think there is going to be a few squeaky bum months ahead. 😁
		
Click to expand...





If we get through to end of arsenal game and still around top 6 I will be impressed. Some real tough games 

After that whilst being tough with Leicester and cheslea it's more spread about


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## Tashyboy (Feb 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 35043


If we get through to end of arsenal game and still around top 6 I will be impressed. Some real tough games

After that whilst being tough with Leicester and cheslea it's more spread about
		
Click to expand...


I knew City had a tough run, so had a look at other teams. I don’t think anyone would think they have a clear advantage. Ave a feeling there’s going to be a bit of yo yo ing.


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## DanFST (Feb 16, 2021)

West Ham won't.

We'll get Europa league, and somehow the mighyt Astra Giurgiu will rise from 13th in their league to claim a Europa League spot. We will then lose to Romania's finest in the early round again.

It's the West Ham way.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2021)

DanFST said:



			West Ham won't.

We'll get Europa league, and somehow the mighyt Astra Giurgiu will rise from 13th in their league to claim a Europa League spot. We will then lose to Romania's finest in the early round again.

It's the West Ham way.
		
Click to expand...

Long as we finish top 12, above wolves and Southampton I win all my pre season bets with the forum lol 

Anything less than 8th now would be a bit rubbish but still progress


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## Fade and Die (Feb 16, 2021)

DanFST said:



			West Ham won't.

We'll get Europa league, and somehow the mighyt Astra Giurgiu will rise from 13th in their league to claim a Europa League spot. We will then lose to Romania's finest in the early round again.

It's the West Ham way.
		
Click to expand...

Or it will turn out unused sub Jamal Baptist was not correctly registered for the Sheffield United game...Sean Bean will start another March, filling Parliament square with 600 angry blades fans looking for compo, Boris’ car gets wrecked and he demands West Ham are stripped of the win and relegated. 


Or more likely our tissue thin squad is exposed by 2/3 injuries and we finish 16th


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## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Or it will turn out unused sub Jamal Baptist was not correctly registered for the Sheffield United game...Sean Bean will start another March, filling Parliament square with 600 angry blades fans looking for compo, Boris’ car gets wrecked and he demands West Ham are stripped of the win and relegated. 


Or more likely our tissue thin squad is exposed by 2/3 injuries and we finish 16th
		
Click to expand...

Our squad isn't nearly as thin as people worry about

Ironically look better with a flowing front 3 than with a half fit Antonio

Lingard is a revelation


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## Fade and Die (Feb 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Our squad isn't nearly as thin as people worry about

Ironically look better with a flowing front 3 than with a half fit Antonio

Lingard is a revelation
		
Click to expand...

I think we have a decent 1st team but they are over worked. Hope I’m wrong but a couple of injuries and we are stuffed. Yarmolenko up front on his own ffs!! 

Agree about Lingard, great to see him looking like he is enjoying himself too.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			I think we have a decent 1st team but they are over worked. Hope I’m wrong but a couple of injuries and we are stuffed. Yarmolenko up front on his own ffs!! 

Agree about Lingard, great to see him looking like he is enjoying himself too.
		
Click to expand...

We look much better with 3 dynamic players up top like benrahma, lingard and Bowen

Those would cause any teams problems

Playing the false 9 with soucek rice fornals behind and flat back 4


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2021)

That’s a very good win , a battle but an important win after the recent weeks

Have to say what a difference the official make - excellent tonight and any VAR decisions where done quickly with little fuss


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## davemc1 (Feb 16, 2021)

Hiya 👋 


😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Hiya 👋


😁
		
Click to expand...

Fragger unlocked your account mate?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Hiya 👋


😁
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Feb 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Fragger unlocked your account mate?

Click to expand...

wifi is back up and running 👍


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## davemc1 (Feb 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Fragger unlocked your account mate?

Click to expand...

😬

hoping he’ll keep it open past 7.30 on Saturday night 🤞🏼


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			😬

hoping he’ll keep it open past 7.30 on Saturday night 🤞🏼
		
Click to expand...

Sadly I think it will be.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 17, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361952272540971008

Nice to see someone high profile say it

Not just Paul from London


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## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56102107

live football til the end of the season 🤔, well until fans can go in to watch. 👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56102107

live football til the end of the season 🤔, well until fans can go in to watch. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Everton v City is on Amazon tonight.👍🏻


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## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Everton v City is on Amazon tonight.👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

yup we have Amazon prime so Ave a front row seat. Would we both be happy with a draw 👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			yup we have Amazon prime so Ave a front row seat. Would we both be happy with a draw 👍
		
Click to expand...

Hoping for a win, expecting nowt😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Hoping for a win, expecting nowt😂😂
		
Click to expand...

A couple of months ago I would of said it depends which City turn up. After Everton’s win v Spurs then after the game v Fulham. It could well be which Everton turn up. That said if I was the Everton Gaffer I would want a response from the Fulham game. Re City, they have got into the one game at a time mode, pep will have them focused on the “ keep that winning run going “.  Could be a good game.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 17, 2021)

Seems it's not just footballers that are a bit thick. The managers are as well. Guardiola and Ancelloti just greeted each other with a clenched fist bump rather than a hand shake, presumably because of Covid guidelines. However, they then proceeded to hug each and touch each others' faces.


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## Imurg (Feb 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Seems it's not just footballers that are a bit thick. The managers are as well. Guardiola and Ancelloti just greeted each other with a clenched fist bump rather than a hand shake, presumably because of Covid guidelines. However, they then proceeded to hug each and touch each others' faces.
		
Click to expand...

So....this fist bump thing that I'm seeing a lot of....
Covid doesn't sit on the outside of the hand then..


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 17, 2021)

Imurg said:



			So....this fist bump thing that I'm seeing a lot of....
Covid doesn't sit on the outside of the hand then.. 

Click to expand...

I think it's more that you touch more stuff with the palm of you hand than the back of your hand. The palm would therefore have a greater chance of having the virus on it than the back so by shaking hands palm to palm there's more chance of transfer.


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## davemc1 (Feb 17, 2021)

When city win the league, will it be because they’re the best team or because it’s a weak league? 

😆


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			When city win the league, will it be because they’re the best team or because it’s a weak league?

😆
		
Click to expand...

Second worst season ever, should be voided.


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## davemc1 (Feb 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Second worst season ever, should be voided.

Click to expand...

Are you still not over the season you finished fourth but didn’t qualify for the Champions League? 🥺


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Are you still not over the season you finished fourth but didn’t qualify for the Champions League? 🥺
		
Click to expand...

I think you’re a bit mixed up Dave, finished 4th in 2005, qualified for the CL and got knocked out in the qualifying stages.

Back in the 70’s we missed out on european football due to the one club per city rule, but I don’t think you’re old enough to remember that.


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## AmandaJR (Feb 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			When city win the league, will it be because they’re the best team or because it’s a weak league?

😆
		
Click to expand...


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## davemc1 (Feb 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I think you’re a bit mixed up Dave, finished 4th in 2005, qualified for the CL and got knocked out in the qualifying stages.

Back in the 70’s we missed out on european football due to the one club per city rule, but I don’t think you’re old enough to remember that.

Click to expand...

I’m not mixed up at all. Qualifying stages dont count 😆


I never knew that 70’s rule tho. In fact, I just had a look, we where both in the uefa cup 75/76?

And in 78/79 we were in the European cup an yous in the UEFA...


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			I’m not mixed up at all. Qualifying stages dont count 😆


I never knew that 70’s rule tho. In fact, I just had a look, we where both in the uefa cup 75/76?

And in 78/79 we were in the European cup an yous in the UEFA...
		
Click to expand...

There was a rule early 70’s in regards the UEFA Cup and only one club per city could be in that - Arsenal missed out one year because Spurs were in - was gone by mid 70’s as both Everton and Liverpool played one year

It was prob a left over from the Inter City Fairs Cup thing


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## Piece (Feb 17, 2021)

Has Pickford borrowed Lloris's lettuce wrists? 😉


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## davemc1 (Feb 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There was a rule early 70’s in regards the UEFA Cup and only one club per city could be in that - Arsenal missed out one year because Spurs were in - was gone by mid 70’s as both Everton and Liverpool played one year

It was prob a left over from the Inter City Fairs Cup thing
		
Click to expand...

I’ve just read, the last time Newcastle won a trophy, it was the fairs cup. They qualified by finishing 10th the season before 😆


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## 4LEX (Feb 17, 2021)

So much respect to Pep. He really looked like he was finished at City with boring and predictable football a few momnths ago.

Dropped a striker who wasn't scoring, played 6 midfielders and went back to controlling games. Looked like one step back but it was actually a step forward. Jesus was costing City results with his lack of all round game and woeful finishing. The midfielders delivered the goods and City have gone from a really boring side to watch earlier in the season to total dominiation. You could argue Pep caused the issue in the first place but it's the sign of a great manager to learn from his mistakes and put it right.

Meanwhile on another planet Ole is playing 2 DM's against West Brom. Utd will be sponsored by Arriva next year they've parked that many buses


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2021)

Beaten by a quality side, Bernado Silva is simply outstanding.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Second worst season ever, should be voided.

Click to expand...

 Can we have an asterisk on our shirts like Liverpool 😁

That aside I thought it was a close game at 2-1. I would be disappointed with Pickford not keeping out the 3rd which should of kept Everton in it.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			I’m not mixed up at all. Qualifying stages dont count 😆


I never knew that 70’s rule tho. In fact, I just had a look, we where both in the uefa cup 75/76?

And in 78/79 we were in the European cup an yous in the UEFA...
		
Click to expand...

It was when it was called the inter-city fairs cup and there was a one city one club rule.

Nothing to do with trains, mate.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			I’ve just read, the last time Newcastle won a trophy, it was the fairs cup. They qualified by finishing 10th the season before 😆
		
Click to expand...

Domestically it was the 5o's with Wor jackie.

Me and my mate were bored in work one day and we went through off the top of our heads how many clubs had won a domestic one since the late 50's and I think we got to about 30 odd!!!
Div 1 / FA cup and league cup only.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Beaten by a quality side, Bernado Silva is simply outstanding.
		
Click to expand...

Ave got to say that is Bernados best game this season, it just has not clicked for him this season. Re Mahrez, that was his best game in a City shirt.
Thank god that banana skin is gone.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2021)

If only Everton tackled like that in derby games.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2021)




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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Can we have an asterisk on our shirts like Liverpool 😁

That aside I thought it was a close game at 2-1. I would be disappointed with Pickford not keeping out the 3rd which should of kept Everton in it.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair mate, I’d play Olsen, but the 3rd was a quality goal and the play deserved it, sometimes you’ve just got to sit back and accept the other team is better.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			To be fair mate, I’d play Olsen, but the 3rd was a quality goal and the play deserved it, sometimes you’ve just got to sit back and accept the other team is better.
		
Click to expand...

I thought Everton were tough to break down, first 20 mins I thought we were scrappy. Get a goal knowing ones not enough, next thing it’s 1-1. Mahrez did exactly what he was bought for. Try to break down packed defences. 
One other thing, you’re centre half that went off, flippin eck he is a Unit.


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Meanwhile on another planet Ole is *playing 2 DM's* against West Brom. Utd will be sponsored by Arriva next year* they've parked that many buses *

Click to expand...

With all those buses I'm surprised that they've scored more goals than anyone else in the league.
How defensive is that?


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## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			With all those buses I'm surprised that they've scored more goals than anyone else in the league.
How defensive is that?
		
Click to expand...

One freak result against Saints makes a mockery of that state comment. 

If anttji g I'd have used the fact that utds defence is so poor that they can't have parked the bus....


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			With all those buses I'm surprised that they've scored more goals than anyone else in the league.
How defensive is that?
		
Click to expand...

There’s also the fact that we didn’t play two defensive midfielders. Why do people keep saying McTominay is defensive when he’s clearly box to box and is scoring some vital goals because of it? Seems to be because Sky tell them he’s defensive. 

I won’t even say Fred is either, he’s a deep lying playmaker. He sure as hell can’t tackle so he’s not very defensive!


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## Yorkhacker (Feb 18, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56090440

Interesting piece. Not sure many Arsenal or Chelsea fans would agree


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## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			When city win the league, will it be because they’re the best team or because it’s a weak league?

😆
		
Click to expand...

Well, it's both. They've managed to find some consistency when nobody else has.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well, it's both. They've managed to find some consistency when nobody else has.
		
Click to expand...

Is that not becoming the norm. From what I can see over the last 10 seasons there has only been 3 title races that could be said as close.


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## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Is that not becoming the norm. From what I can see over the last 10 seasons there has only been 3 title races that could be said as close.
		
Click to expand...

I think the other teams have all been as bad as they've ever been if not worse though, in terms of consistency. Everyone was handing each other the lead until City put a good run of wins together.

Here are the 1st and 2nd place points total after week 24 for the last ten seasons:

20/21 - 56 - 46
19/20 - 70 - 51
18/19 - 61 - 56
17/18 - 65 - 53
16/17 - 59 - 50
15/16 - 50 - 47
14/15 - 56 - 49
13/14 - 55 - 53
12/13 - 59 - 52
11/12 - 60 - 58

So it's the joint third lowest title to be leading, but the lowest total to be in 2nd place, so definitely an argument to say it's the worst season in terms of consistency of the challengers. I checked another 5 seasons and there still wasn't a lower second place total.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think the other teams have all been as bad as they've ever been if not worse though, in terms of consistency. Everyone was handing each other the lead until City put a good run of wins together.

Here are the 1st and 2nd place points total after week 24 for the last ten seasons:

20/21 - 56 - 46
19/20 - 70 - 51
18/19 - 61 - 56
17/18 - 65 - 53
16/17 - 59 - 50
15/16 - 50 - 47
14/15 - 56 - 49
13/14 - 55 - 53
12/13 - 59 - 52
11/12 - 60 - 58

So it's the joint third lowest title to be leading, but the lowest total to be in 2nd place, so definitely an argument to say it's the worst season in terms of consistency of the challengers. I checked another 5 seasons and there still wasn't a lower second place total.
		
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One thing I found interesting re comments about City, was that Pep has tightened up the defence but at the same Time City are not as “ Flamboyant “, in a sense they don’t create as many chances. They probably don’t but they are still missing just as many.
Prem league level you can get away with it, sometimes. At top level, champs league nope.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			One thing I found interesting re comments about City, was that Pep has tightened up the defence but at the same Time City are not as “ Flamboyant “, in a sense they don’t create as many chances. They probably don’t but they are still missing just as many.
Prem league level you can get away with it, sometimes. At top level, champs league nope.
		
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What really annoys me about city and pep is the level of rotation it's stupid 

Stones has a real chance of becoming a really good centre back and building a partnership with Diaz .. which could win them the champs league 

But if you seperate them every other game how will they build?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			What really annoys me about city and pep is the level of rotation it's stupid

Stones has a real chance of becoming a really good centre back and building a partnership with Diaz .. which could win them the champs league

But if you seperate them every other game how will they build?
		
Click to expand...

But his/ peps system is working and working well. He somehow has to keep players fresh and he seems to be doing it. Re Stones he has played himself into a new contract. Him and Dias have been massive, but Laporte needs game time, that’s before Ake is available as well. What’s been very surprising is the run that City have been on with both KDB and Aguero missing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2021)

The talk again on the old phones ins was about the greatest Prem side 

It seems to be the narrative now that each season that team becomes the greatest 

Last year it was Liverpool 
Year before City etc etc 

I still think it’s very hard to choose between City 18/19 , Arsenal invincibles , UTD 99 , Liverpool 19/20 or Chelsea 04/05

Because there is no chance that the current team can be claimed that


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The talk again on the old phones ins was about the greatest Prem side

It seems to be the narrative now that each season that team becomes the greatest

Last year it was Liverpool
Year before City etc etc

I still think it’s very hard to choose between City 18/19 , Arsenal invincibles , UTD 99 , Liverpool 19/20 or Chelsea 04/05

Because there is no chance that the current team can be claimed that
		
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United 99 easily. Won the treble and lost fewer games all season than Arsenal did in their “invincible” season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			United 99 easily. Won the treble and lost fewer games all season than Arsenal did in their “invincible” season.
		
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Arsenal lost “Zero” Premier League 🤷‍♂️ How can lose less 

It best “Premier League” team - so just Premier League


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal lost “Zero” Premier League 🤷‍♂️ How can lose less

It best “Premier League” team - so just Premier League
		
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It’s ridiculous to suggest the other games being played didn’t have an impact. Neither team only played Premier League games in the respective seasons and this meant rotating players. Arsenal didn’t play in any finals the year they went unbeaten in the league and didn’t even get to the semis of the Champions League. We had three “finals” in a very short time when you consider we had to win on the final day of the season and still won the lot.

But I’m not surprised you’re narrowing the parameters so you don’t have to say Man Utd and can bring Liverpool last year into the conversation.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal lost “Zero” Premier League 🤷‍♂️ How can lose less

It best “Premier League” team - so just Premier League
		
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The Arsenal one is a bit like a pro getting a 59 on a par 69 course and going in the record books. All very good but is it better than a 60 on a par 72? Arsenal drew quite a few games that year, the pressure of not losing took over. It is a great stat but it doesn't make the team the best.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 18, 2021)

It's more impressive that Manchester United won the league and the other 2 at once 

Arsenal unbeaten is impressive but they didn't win anything else that year


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## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2021)

I’d say the “greatest feat” is prabably is the 99 team. But I wouldn’t say their the best. 

Id fancy the Chelsea team or the Liverpool/city teams of last few seasons to be able to beat them of a series of games.


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I’d say the “greatest feat” is prabably is the 99 team. But I wouldn’t say their the best.

Id fancy the Chelsea team or the Liverpool/city teams of last few seasons to be able to beat them of a series of games.
		
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Of course they would. Just as our team right now would beat the 1968 team with Best, Charlton and Law without breaking a sweat.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2021)

Pointless these comparison debates, they always deteriorate in to tribalism, petty comments and no one ever changes their mind.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 18, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Pointless these comparison debates, they always deteriorate in to tribalism, petty comments and no one ever changes their mind.
		
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True plus city only team to ever get over 100 premier League points so clearly the best lol


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			True plus city only team to ever get over 100 premier League points so clearly the best lol
		
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West Ham are the only English league team to win the World Cup so clearly they’re the best ever...


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## pauljames87 (Feb 18, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			West Ham are the only English league team to win the World Cup so clearly they’re the best ever...
		
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Don't give me that tosh lol takes 11 men team effort 

Just because 3 of them were ours doesn't mean we did diddly squat


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			It’s ridiculous to suggest the other games being played didn’t have an impact. Neither team only played Premier League games in the respective seasons and this meant rotating players. Arsenal didn’t play in any finals the year they went unbeaten in the league and didn’t even get to the semis of the Champions League. We had three “finals” in a very short time when you consider we had to win on the final day of the season and still won the lot.

But I’m not surprised you’re narrowing the parameters so you don’t have to say Man Utd and can bring Liverpool last year into the conversation.
		
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It’s not “ridiculous” at all - it’s a defined criteria being used - Premier League 

I already included the 99 team 🤷‍♂️ Their achievements over the season were outstanding and will prob never be matched and will prob go down as the Greatest Season 

Just looking in at the Premier League then yes I would include Liverpool last season as it was a season where record were broken 

It’s very hard to judge but i think going on ability wise and the way they played plus results it would be the City 100 points plus one followed by Liverpool last year


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not “ridiculous” at all - it’s a defined criteria being used - Premier League

I already included the 99 team 🤷‍♂️ Their achievements over the season were outstanding and will prob never be matched and will prob go down as the Greatest Season

Just looking in at the Premier League then yes I would include Liverpool last season as it was a season where record were broken

It’s very hard to judge but i think going on ability wise and the way they played plus results it would be the City 100 points plus one followed by Liverpool last year
		
Click to expand...

And there’s the inevitable Liverpool inclusion.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 18, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			And there’s the inevitable Liverpool inclusion.
		
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Thought last season didn't really count because it changed rules mid season to Include 5 subs and drinks breaks 

Basically different game 

Best we wipe it from the records for fairness


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			And there’s the inevitable Liverpool inclusion.
		
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What’s wrong with including a team that had the biggest winning margin in the history of Prem ? Ability wise , the way they played surely even you can see that


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## pauljames87 (Feb 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s wrong with including a team that had the biggest winning margin in the history of Prem ? Ability wise , the way they played surely even you can see that
		
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Biggest title-winning margin: 19 points, 2017–18; Manchester City (100 points) over Manchester United (81 points)

I mean second best at 18 is impressive but who remembers second place


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s wrong with including a team that had the biggest winning margin in the history of Prem ? Ability wise , the way they played surely even you can see that
		
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There are so many caveats behind last season and I’m sure you accept that.


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## GB72 (Feb 18, 2021)

Having listened to a few of the debates on this, I have always understood the greatest 'Premier League Team' to be the greatest team of the Premier League era rather than basing the opinion just on their performance in the Premier League itself. Helps narrow the debate to the younger audiences that people are looking for rather than filling them with arguments about a bygone era that less people know much about or appreciate.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 18, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Of course they would. Just as our team right now would beat the 1968 team with Best, Charlton and Law without breaking a sweat.
		
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I imagine you saw a lot of the 1968 team!🙄


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## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2021)

Personally I think the greatest Premier League side was Chelsea 2004/05. Only lost once - ok comparable to a lot of other teams. But they only conceded 15 league goals in an entire season. That is absolutely ridiculous. This season Man City have the best defensive record by a big margin, and they have conceded 15 goals already. Considering how defensive standards seem to have plummeted in the last decade, I don't think we'll ever again see a team with a defensive record that good. And 95 points was the record for a long time, so it's not as if they drew a lot of games, they were still going and winning them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			There are so many caveats behind last season and I’m sure you accept that.
		
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Caveats ? Sorry but what caveats that diminish a teams ability and the way they played. Even with Covid and lockdown the league was pretty much won was it not ? If anything lockdown may well have stopped the team going past Citys point record.


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## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I imagine you saw a lot of the 1968 team!🙄
		
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I imagine his comment is based on the relative fitness levels of the footballers in different eras, which I think makes it a fair point. By the middle of the second half a modern day side would be running rings round them.


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I imagine you saw a lot of the 1968 team!🙄
		
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It’s just a generation thing. Fitness and tactical awareness alone would see them through with ease.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I imagine his comment is based on the relative fitness levels of the footballers in different eras, which I think makes it a fair point. By the middle of the second half a modern day side would be running rings round them.
		
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But by that time  the '68 team would be 6-0 up against the current defence.

The old team with access to modern fitness training would murder the current lot.😉

Actually, who knows?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 18, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			It’s just a generation thing. Fitness and tactical awareness alone would see them through with ease.
		
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Fitness has certainly improved I grant you.

Tactical awareness is a completely different issue and is probably the subject of more BS than anything else in the modern game.

Formations don't win games  players do.


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## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			But by that time  the '68 team would be 6-0 up against the current defence.

The old team with access to modern fitness training would murder the current lot.😉

Actually, who knows?
		
Click to expand...

I don't agree with the first comment, as the modern defenders may appear useless in today's game, but compared to the defender of that era their pace and fitness would be ahead. Perhaps the '68 team would nab one or two goals in the first half, but in the second half when fitness starts to tell, the modern day side would nab 4 or 5 goals back. Obviously we're just being hypothetical though. The old side with new fitness training makes them a different team entirely so not really the same comparison.


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't agree with the first comment, as the modern defenders may appear useless in today's game, but compared to the defender of that era their pace and fitness would be ahead. Perhaps the '68 team would nab one or two goals in the first half, but in the second half when fitness starts to tell, the modern day side would nab 4 or 5 goals back. Obviously we're just being hypothetical though. The old side with new fitness training makes them a different team entirely so not really the same comparison. 

Click to expand...

Harry Maguire would probably beat Best for pace. 😂


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 18, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Harry Maguire would probably beat Best for pace. 😂
		
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Bit early to be drinking   isn’t it?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't agree with the first comment, as the modern defenders may appear useless in today's game, but compared to the defender of that era their pace and fitness would be ahead. Perhaps the '68 team would nab one or two goals in the first half, but in the second half when fitness starts to tell, the modern day side would nab 4 or 5 goals back. Obviously we're just being hypothetical though. The old side with new fitness training makes them a different team entirely so not really the same comparison. 

Click to expand...

In much the same way that the modern team couldn't cope with the physical nature of the game in the sixties.


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## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			In much the same way that the modern team couldn't cope with the physical nature of the game in the sixties.
		
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Well if this hypothetical game was being played in the modern era with a modern ref, then the 68 team probably earn themselves at least 3 red cards as well!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well if this hypothetical game was being played in the modern era with a modern ref, then the 68 team probably earn themselves at least 3 red cards as well!
		
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And if it were a '68 ref he would have reduced the current  team to 8 for their behaviour towards the officials. 

It's impossible to compare different eras.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2021)

Oooh love a hypothetical.... Dixie Dean, greatest ever English CF


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Caveats ? Sorry but what caveats that diminish a teams ability and the way they played. Even with Covid and lockdown the league was pretty much won was it not ? If anything lockdown may well have stopped the team going past Citys point record.
		
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It did.

90% of our season was done pre-covid and when we had a rhythm.

If covid wouldnt have come we would have got 107/108 points comfortably, and this argument would be moot.

If your talking pre-prem (perish the thought), Liverpool's 78-79 team iirc only let in 16 goals, and that was a 42 game season and only used a squad of about 15 players.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Oooh love a hypothetical.... Dixie Dean, greatest ever English CF 

Click to expand...

Correct.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2021)

We don’t have to compare though, just appreciatte that at times during the PL period or prior to that, there were outstanding teams who played outstanding football. 

Their records/performances/individual players should be recognised and appreciatted.

Why not describe the team/players that you’d happily pay to watch, in real or on TV,

The Liverpool teams of the 80’s, Chelsea in the early 00’s, Utd with Keane/Scholes, Forest in the late 70’s early 80’s etc

It’ll never be proven which team would beat which team if they were all around at the same time. Just accept we’ve had some incredible players and incredible teams.


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## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			It did.

90% of our season was done pre-covid and when we had a rhythm.

*If covid wouldnt have come we would have got 107/108 points comfortably, and this argument would be moot.*

If your talking pre-prem (perish the thought), Liverpool's 78-79 team iirc only let in 16 goals, and that was a 42 game season and only used a squad of about 15 players.
		
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Or alternatively, the team would have burned out long before the end of the season without the 3 months rest they got - the Covid break just delayed that burn out until this season instead.


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## Slime (Feb 18, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			But by that time  the '68 team would be 6-0 up against the current defence.

The old team with access to modern fitness training would murder the current lot.😉

Actually, who knows?
		
Click to expand...

Just imagine George Best playing on today's perfect pitches with defenders not allowed to hack him down.


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Just imagine George Best playing on today's perfect pitches with defenders not allowed to hack him down.
		
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He’d been dead on his feet within half an hour at the pace of today’s game. But yea, he’d have scored a hat trick, drank a bottle of vodka and slept with the opposition manager’s wife by full time. 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Or alternatively, the team would have burned out long before the end of the season without the 3 months rest they got - the Covid break just delayed that burn out until this season instead.
		
Click to expand...

“Would” ? Don’t you mean “could” , 

Burn out isn’t affecting the players right now and hasn’t done at any stage - injuries have so its more likely that the stoppage disrupted the season more hence why before lockdown we were still doing well but coming back it was a bit hit and miss


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## davemc1 (Feb 18, 2021)

Why are Utd playing tonight? Champions League is tue/wed isn’t it?

Bleedin covid


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## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“Would” ? Don’t you mean “could” ,

Burn out isn’t affecting the players right now and hasn’t done at any stage - injuries have so its more likely that the stoppage disrupted the season more hence why before lockdown we were still doing well but coming back it was a bit hit and miss
		
Click to expand...

My point is whichever way you look at it we're speculating. All we know for certain is the Covid break either helped or hindered Liverpool, or made no difference at all.


In other news, this Austrian bunch must be bloody awful, we're steamrolling them!


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## Rlburnside (Feb 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			My point is whichever way you look at it we're speculating. All we know for certain is the Covid break either helped or hindered Liverpool, or made no difference at all.


In other news, this Austrian bunch must be bloody awful, we're steamrolling them!
		
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When Mouro started his run someone shouted “ run Mouro run “ 😂. What a turn of speed he’s got.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2021)

I see Bale has scored, he looks like a good prospect 👍


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## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I see Bale has scored, he looks like a good prospect 👍
		
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He's got a future, but I still see him as a left back, long term.


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## Slime (Feb 18, 2021)

A proper performance from United tonight.
Maguire & Bailly were superb tonight, Rashford was profligate in the first half but ended up with a superb assist and a good goal.
Bruno was .......................... Bruno.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56119952

hope that don’t catch on 🤔😳


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“Would” ? Don’t you mean “could” ,

Burn out isn’t affecting the players right now and hasn’t done at any stage - injuries have so its more likely that the stoppage disrupted the season more hence why before lockdown we were still doing well but coming back it was a bit hit and miss
		
Click to expand...

Dont listen to the soft get, obviously hasnt a clue, you only have to look at the pantheon of divvies liking what he said.

A team who had won about 90% of our games comfortably at that point and only needed 1-2 wins was going to fall apart - yeah right.


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## Slime (Feb 18, 2021)

Ooh, I didn't expet you to rise to that one.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Just imagine George Best playing on today's perfect pitches with defenders not allowed to hack him down.
		
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Yes most modern footballers would not get up if they had been tackled by the likes of Hunter, Bremner ,Smith.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 19, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Where's Stu?
		
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Having some time out, his choice, not forced.👍🏻


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Having some time out, his choice, not forced.👍🏻
		
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I don’t blame him, I think a few folk have needed a bit of chill, self reflection, me, insert own words time.

Hope alls well Stu me man.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t blame him, I think a few folk have needed a bit of chill, self reflection, me, insert own words time.

Hope alls well Stu me man.
		
Click to expand...

He’s having a rough time mentally mate, spoke to him before and appreciates those asking after him.


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## 2blue (Feb 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes most modern footballers would not get up if they had been tackled by the likes of Hunter, Bremner ,Smith.
		
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Well... yeah ...  Revies Cloggers...  not pretty.....  not clever....  & under performed. The modern game is Just so much better.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s having a rough time mentally mate, spoke to him before and appreciates those asking after him.

Click to expand...

Tell him a blue sends his thoughts and love, not good times for a lot of folk, does that make it any easier. Not at all. Sometimes just stepping away and talking to someone, even letting out on this forum helps to lighten the load.
nehave and stay safe Paul me man.


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## AmandaJR (Feb 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s having a rough time mentally mate, spoke to him before and appreciates those asking after him.

Click to expand...

Really sorry to hear that. Send my best wishes if you talk to him.


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## Slime (Feb 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Having some time out, his choice, not forced.👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

I hope all's good in Stu's world.
Don't always agree with him, but he's still missed.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 19, 2021)

2blue said:



			Well... yeah ...  Revies Cloggers...  not pretty.....  not clever....  & under performed. The modern game is Just so much better.
		
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Not just Leeds most defenders of that era.
It had its good bits ,but yes today’s players are very good.
Just VAR , diving , and stupid handball rule killing it.


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## JamesR (Feb 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s having a rough time mentally mate, spoke to him before and appreciates those asking after him.

Click to expand...

Liverpool are struggling, aren’t they ?


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## Beezerk (Feb 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s having a rough time mentally mate, spoke to him before and appreciates those asking after him.

Click to expand...

Hope he's ok mate


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## Captainron (Feb 19, 2021)

He’s really struggling. Word is that he might start a blog.


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## JamesR (Feb 19, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He’s really struggling. Word is that he might start a blog.
		
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I bet he’s posting all sorts of rubbish on Twitter still though


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## USER1999 (Feb 19, 2021)

I have never liked him anyway.


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## PieMan (Feb 19, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He’s really struggling. Word is that he might start a blog.
		
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Thank god it's not a vlog - can't understand a word he's saying with that accent! 😉


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## SaintHacker (Feb 20, 2021)

Not the best game of football ever but I'll take the result, and glad to come through a game without discussing var yet again!


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## SteveW86 (Feb 20, 2021)

Well that’s a bright start to the game. Can’t imagine it does much for Liverpool’s confidence.


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## Piece (Feb 20, 2021)

Nice finish that. Opens the game up nicely.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2021)

Rodriguez is a class player. He is so good at sliding passes through.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 20, 2021)

Good ref in this match. Jordan Henderson has just been given a free kick for pulling his hamstring.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 20, 2021)

Don't know what was said but Henderson didnt look at all happy with Klopp when he came off then, probably just frustration from thr injury but who knows?🤔


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 20, 2021)

Traminator said:



			The bloke in blue pulled it 😜
		
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Not unless it was by remote control. The Everton player never touched him.


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## hairball_89 (Feb 20, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Don't know what was said but Henderson didnt look at all happy with Klopp when he came off then, probably just frustration from thr injury but who knows?🤔
		
Click to expand...

He's captain of the champions. Who are awful atm as a team. He's going off injured at home. In the derby. And they're losing. Of course he's frustrated!

But oh yes. It must be something else between him and the boss?! Nonsense.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 20, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			He's captain of the champions. Who are awful atm as a team. He's going off injured at home. In the derby. And they're losing. Of course he's frustrated!

But oh yes. It must be something else between him and the boss?! Nonsense.
		
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Calm down La 😂😂


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## SaintHacker (Feb 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Calm down La 😂😂
		
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🤣🤣🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

Gomez should be off ,how that challenge on Mane is not a yellow is a joke.

Lucky it’s not 2-0 .


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Not the best game of football ever but I'll take the result, and glad to come through a game without discussing var yet again!
		
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Perfect example of why the CF should not be in his own penalty area.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Perfect example of why the CF should not be in his own penalty area.
		
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Yeah, that challenge was probably 3 penalties!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Gomez should be off ,how that challenge on Mane is not a yellow is a joke.

Lucky it’s not 2-0 .
		
Click to expand...

He was evening up for the free whacks you had on Rodriguez 😉


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## Beezerk (Feb 20, 2021)

Everton fans, what's your take on Tom Lewis?
I've watched him play a few times now and he doesn't really seem to add a lot. Doesn't tackle, doesn't show for the ball, almost like you're playing with 10 men.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 20, 2021)

Is there a worse diver than Salah currently in the premier league?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is there a worse diver than Salah currently in the premier league?
		
Click to expand...

nope 10/10.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 20, 2021)

Klopp wonders why people don't talk about Salah as highly as others 

Stay on your feet a bit and maybe they will

Great player.. awful cheat


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			nope 10/10.
		
Click to expand...

It seems to be every wk.
Then when other players dive you get Liverpool fans saying “if that was Salah” try turning him into the victim 🤦‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Everton fans, what's your take on Tom Lewis?
I've watched him play a few times now and he doesn't really seem to add a lot. Doesn't tackle, doesn't show for the ball, almost like you're playing with 10 men.
		
Click to expand...

We desperately want him to work, Tom Davies I think you mean, but I don't think he is quite good enough sadly. He is not quite sharp enough, doesn't snap enough is an okay passer of the ball but no more. He is a 6.5/10 player and that is not enough. 

We really miss Allan, the player we signed from Napoli. He is the player we want Davies to become.


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## Beezerk (Feb 20, 2021)

Yes sorry Davies 🙈
And there he is playing a cracking ball through 😂


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 20, 2021)

Blimey 😂😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Yes sorry Davies 🙈
And there he is playing a cracking ball through 😂
		
Click to expand...

It's all in the timing 😆.

Blimey Gylfi, could you have hit that any slower 😰. That was stressful to watch.


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## Dando (Feb 20, 2021)

How on earth did that penalty stand


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## Beezerk (Feb 20, 2021)

Dando said:



			How on earth did that penalty stand
		
Click to expand...

TTA certainly tried to take him out with his right leg, unfortunately for him the striker was already falling over lol. Then again if that was a tackle in midfield and he impeded the player by sliding through like that it would be a foul imo.


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## SteveW86 (Feb 20, 2021)

I think that’s a harsh pen. DCL knees him in the back of the head as the first contact


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 20, 2021)

Everton have scored more goals at Anfield this year than Liverpool.


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## AmandaJR (Feb 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is there a worse diver than Salah currently in the premier league?
		
Click to expand...

Mane?


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 20, 2021)

Dando said:



			How on earth did that penalty stand
		
Click to expand...

Definitely a penalty for me 😊


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 20, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Mane?
		
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Touché 😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Feb 20, 2021)

Come on Jamie say it like it actually is

PATHETIC from mane ..


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## Dando (Feb 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Definitely a penalty for me 😊
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡


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## SteveW86 (Feb 20, 2021)

wasn’t Carragher a boyhood Everton fan?


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## Dando (Feb 20, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			TTA certainly tried to take him out with his right leg, unfortunately for him the striker was already falling over lol. Then again if that was a tackle in midfield and he impeded the player by sliding through like that it would be a foul imo.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 20, 2021)

If the answer to the question is Alex Iwobi or Divock Origi then you really need to be asking a different questions.


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## Piece (Feb 20, 2021)

Dando said:



			How on earth did that penalty stand
		
Click to expand...

Ref gave it live time. Then reviewed his own decision. Still gave it. Not a problem with me.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			wasn’t Carragher a boyhood Everton fan?
		
Click to expand...

Yes.

Clearly he will never be forgiven for going over to the dark side 😁


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## Captainron (Feb 20, 2021)

@Stuart_C 

Just remember that you have mates on here. Stay strong lar. 

#prayforStu
#blogtosurvive
#calmdowncalmdown


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 20, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			wasn’t Carragher a boyhood Everton fan?
		
Click to expand...

And Gerrard 😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2021)

Didnt do enough to get anything from the game but their backline was outstanding , Keane was excellent with Holgate and Godfrey not far behind , but when we did get past them Pickford made some crucial saves

The penalty was a joke though - he just fell over TAA and gave him a knee in the head for good luck

Another injury as well 😢 18th different CB partnership- just unprecedented level of injuries, got to find a way to battle through til the end of the season

PS - surely need to find a way to get a different commentator.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Good ref in this match. Jordan Henderson has just been given a free kick for pulling his hamstring.
		
Click to expand...

And now he's let Everton take a free kick awarded for offside from inside the Liverpool half.


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## Dando (Feb 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			Ref gave it live time. Then reviewed his own decision. Still gave it. Not a problem with me.
		
Click to expand...

So tripping over a player who’s on the ground is a penalty now?


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## Slime (Feb 20, 2021)

I didn't see the game, but it was definitely a penalty ............................. nailed on.


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## Beezerk (Feb 20, 2021)

Dando said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡
		
Click to expand...

Stay classy


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And now he's let Everton take a free kick awarded for offside from inside the Liverpool half.
		
Click to expand...

But Everton could have scored, what’s happens then 😳


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## SteveW86 (Feb 20, 2021)

Dando said:



			So tripping over a player who’s on the ground is a penalty now?
		
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I do like how quickly the ref made his decision whilst looking at the screen, that’s the sort of time frame it should be.

He looks at it and is happy with his original decision, so crack on. We’ve moaned that decisions have taken far to long to come to and looking at every angle possible.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			And Gerrard 😂
		
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And Owen

They have all shamed themselves 😱


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2021)

I called it a couple of months ago. If Liverpool do not grind out results they will not finish in the top four/ champs league. At the time it didn’t go down well.
I will call something else, if Liverpool do not grind out results they will not qualify for Europe. Period.
look at the league table before you reply, it may well already be out of Liverpool’s  hands with the games in hand that  Villa, Everton and Spurs have.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



*I called it a couple of months ago.* If Liverpool do not grind out results they will not finish in the top four/ champs league. At the time it didn’t go down well.
I will call something else, if Liverpool do not grind out results they will not qualify for Europe. Period.
look at the league table before you reply, it may well already be out of LIverpools hands with the games in hand that  Villa, Everton and Spurs have.
		
Click to expand...

A couple of months ago they were top of the league 🙄 

There is a long way to go yet - getting some players back fit will help


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## Paperboy (Feb 20, 2021)

I think that Liverpool should play Nat Phillips, who's looked solid when I've seen him play and whoever they think is the next best CB.
Thus allowing the CM's too get back to where they belong. But I'm only an arm chair supporter1


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## sawtooth (Feb 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is there a worse diver than Salah currently in the premier league?
		
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He’s out on his own at the moment.

Souness must find his antics particularly gauling.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2021)

Souness giving his opinion on Fulham v Sheff Utd. He sounds like he wants to go home 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2021)

sawtooth said:



			He’s out on his own at the moment.

Souness must find his antics particularly gauling.
		
Click to expand...

Every team has them - every professional footballer especially the forward will throw themselves to the ground the minute they get the chance - there is the belief that any touch “entitles” players to go down , people have complained about it for years but it won’t change until players regulary get banned for it 

And oppo fans are ok to point fingers and rival players but appear to ignore their own when they throw themselves around


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## Piece (Feb 20, 2021)

Dando said:



			So tripping over a player who’s on the ground is a penalty now?
		
Click to expand...

Ref thought so. Twice. 👍.

My view? TAA was unfortunate but he went to ground early and impeded. If the ref had changed his mind, again, no complaints here. If that was other end for Liverpool, I think some firm cases for a pen would be created 😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			Ref thought so. Twice. 👍.

My view? TAA was unfortunate but he went to ground early and impeded. If the ref had changed his mind, again, no complaints here. If that was other end for Liverpool, I think some firm cases for a pen would be created 😉
		
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He fell over TAA who was lying on the ground 🤷‍♂️ CL kneed him in the back of the head then fell over - what exactly was TAA supposed to do


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363206074753556482


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			Ref thought so. Twice. 👍.

My view? TAA was unfortunate but he went to ground early and impeded. If the ref had changed his mind, again, no complaints here. If that was other end for Liverpool, I think some firm cases for a pen would be created 😉
		
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As you say he attempted to play the ball, he didn’t and the Everton player caught him with momentum. To be honest did it affect the outcome of the result. Nope were talking about a brownie points decision. Watching TAA was like watching Otamendi who spent half the game on his butt, you cringe knowing it could go either way.


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## sawtooth (Feb 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every team has them - every professional footballer especially the forward will throw themselves to the ground the minute they get the chance - there is the belief that any touch “entitles” players to go down , people have complained about it for years but it won’t change until players regulary get banned for it

And oppo fans are ok to point fingers and rival players but appear to ignore their own when they throw themselves around
		
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Sure but Salahs my favourite. Artistic impression is second to none.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He was evening up for the free whacks you had on Rodriguez 😉
		
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Of all players to make a challenge like that Gomez should know better after the one by Son on him.
That was yellow all day.

Shocking ref .if that’s a pen the game is in real trouble.
The VAR ref gave him a chance to amend his mistake but he didn’t take it.

Everton tactics spot on and a deserved win imo.


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## Piece (Feb 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every team has them - every professional footballer especially the forward will throw themselves to the ground the minute they get the chance - there is the belief that any touch “entitles” players to go down , people have complained about it for years but it won’t change until players regulary get banned for it

And oppo fans are ok to point fingers and rival players but appear to ignore their own when they throw themselves around
		
Click to expand...

Correct. Richarlison was a main culprit when he was with us. We have a couple in the current squad that love to go down; frustrates the hell out of me.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And now he's let Everton take a free kick awarded for offside from inside the Liverpool half.
		
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That’s the Lino’s job surley to tell him.
After all it was them who gave the offside in the first place.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every team has them - every professional footballer especially the forward will throw themselves to the ground the minute they get the chance - there is the belief that any touch “entitles” players to go down , people have complained about it for years but it won’t change until players regulary get banned for it

And oppo fans are ok to point fingers and rival players but appear to ignore their own when they throw themselves around
		
Click to expand...

No one’s disagreeing with that Phil 🤷‍♂️.

We’re just saying that Salah is the worst for it 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


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## Piece (Feb 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Of all players to make a challenge like that Gomez should know better after the one by Son on him.
That was yellow all day.

Shocking ref .if that’s a pen the game is in real trouble.
The VAR ref gave him a chance to amend his mistake but he didn’t take it.

Everton tactics spot on and a deserved win imo.
		
Click to expand...

Shocking? Hang on. The refs at the moment can’t win. I like to commend the ref for sticking to his decision and doing it quickly. The stuff I’ve seen recently given for pens far exceeds that incident.


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## Dando (Feb 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			Shocking? Hang on. The refs at the moment can’t win. I like to commend the ref for sticking to his decision and doing it quickly. The stuff I’ve seen recently given for pens far exceeds that incident.
		
Click to expand...

He didn’t even look at the full replay


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			Shocking? Hang on. The refs at the moment can’t win. I like to commend the ref for sticking to his decision and doing it quickly. The stuff I’ve seen recently given for pens far exceeds that incident.
		
Click to expand...

He should have sent Gomez off .
DCL had played the ball and his knee collided with AA head.
He only had two things to do really all game 
Both were wrong imo.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			No one’s disagreeing with that Phil 🤷‍♂️.

We’re just saying that Salah is the worst for it 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

Yes he is the worst because he’s not very good at it , it’s so obvious.


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## Piece (Feb 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s the Lino’s job surley to tell him.
After all it was them who gave the offside in the first place.
		
Click to expand...

The free kick takes place where the offside player first actively interferes with play. Sometimes this means the freekick is in the other half. 👍


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## Piece (Feb 20, 2021)

Dando said:



			He didn’t even look at the full replay
		
Click to expand...

Eh?

He saw it live. Gave it. Saw a replay. Still gave it. Did you want him to look at 36 replays and then give it? I thought we were all about quicken the play.


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## SteveW86 (Feb 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			The free kick takes place where the offside player first actively interferes with play. Sometimes this means the freekick is in the other half. 👍
		
Click to expand...

How does this work when you can’t be offside in your own half?


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## Dando (Feb 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			Eh?

He saw it live. Gave it. Saw a replay. Still gave it. Did you want him to look at 36 replays and then give it? I thought we were all about quicken the play.
		
Click to expand...

He didn’t watch the replay until the point where DCL tripped over TAA. Surely if he’s been asked to review the decision he needs to at least watch incident


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## Piece (Feb 20, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			How does this work when you can’t be offside in your own half?
		
Click to expand...

Example. Ball lumped forward by Allison towards half way line. At time of pass, Salah is a couple of yards in Everton half, standing offside but not interfering. Ball gets held up in wind and lands a few yards shy of the half way line. Salah, seeing this, sprints to challenge and thus becomes active. The free kick is taken where he interferes not where he was originally seen to be ‘offside’.


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## SteveW86 (Feb 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			Example. Ball lumped forward by Allison towards half way line. At time of pass, Salah is a couple of yards in Everton half, standing offside but not interfering. Ball gets held up in wind and lands a few yards shy of the half way line. Salah, seeing this, sprints to challenge and thus becomes active. The free kick is taken where he interferes not where he was originally seen to be ‘offside’.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah that makes sense. I don’t remember seeing the incident which was actually highlighted, but thought the free kick was taken from just inside the Everton half so just assumed it was a very close traditional offside.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2021)

sawtooth said:



			Sure but Salahs my favourite. Artistic impression is second to none.
		
Click to expand...

He has prob learned from the greats in the past - it will be nice to see someone reach the King Drogba levels on a single player levels but didn’t Arsenal have a couple of seasons where they had the most players booked for diving 😉😁


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has prob learned from the greats in the past - it will be nice to see someone reach the King Drogba levels on a single player levels but didn’t Arsenal have a couple of seasons where they had the most players booked for diving 😉😁
		
Click to expand...

Blimey we was discussing a player diving in a match today,not 10 years ago 🤦‍♂️🙄


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## Tiger man (Feb 20, 2021)

Well isn't this turning into an embarrassing title defence from the best team the world has ever seen? The whole league is smelling blood, you know you're in trouble when Everton turn you over, could not beat the under 18's last year.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			My lad called it quite well.The 2 previous times Sterling was shown the byline, his weaker foot. Both times he had it took off him. This time he does his massively exaggerated step over, cuts in and as soon as there’s contact he is going down.
Re Liverpool something has to change. Is the lad from Preston fit to play. If he drops in does Henderson or Fab drop in the middle. 🤔 *my worry for Liverpool is they are getting to the business end of the season and champs league and they can ill afford to have any injuries to Henderson or fab playing every game.*

My post from 8th Feb re injuries to Fab and Henderson.
		
Click to expand...


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## hairball_89 (Feb 20, 2021)

Tiger man said:



			Well isn't this turning into an embarrassing title defence from the best team the world has ever seen? The whole league is smelling blood, you know you're in trouble when Everton turn you over, could not beat the under 18's last year.
		
Click to expand...

In a word, yes.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			The free kick takes place where the offside player first actively interferes with play. Sometimes this means the freekick is in the other half. 👍
		
Click to expand...

You can’t be offside in your own half????
The Lino let’s play go on but if he then puts the flag up for offside it goes back to where the original offside was.
As you can’t be offside in your own half how can they take the kick from Liverpool’s half?

If they had scored from the free kick would it stand or would VAR pull them up for taking the kick from the wrong place?


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You can’t be offside in your own half????
		
Click to expand...

I thought this as well but having looked at the law the player is offside in the opposition half but the offence doesn't take place until he becomes active in his own half. 

"If an offside offence occurs, the referee awards an indirect free kick where the offence occurred, including if it is in the player’s own half of the field of play."

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Yeah that makes sense. I don’t remember seeing the incident which was actually highlighted, but thought the free kick was taken from just inside the Everton half so just assumed it was a very close traditional offside.
		
Click to expand...

He wasn’t though he was 15 yds inside the Everton half that’s why he was offside.
Everton player picks the ball up spins it into Liverpool’s half then takes the kick.
So not only in the wrong place but in the wrong half of the pitch.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought this as well but having looked at the law the player is offside in the opposition half but the offence doesn't take place until he becomes active in his own half.

"If an offside offence occurs, the referee awards an indirect free kick where the offence occurred, including if it is in the player’s own half of the field of play."

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

Click to expand...

Look at what the Everton player does just before he takes the kick.
The ball is on the ground in Everton’s half.
The ball is on the ground he picks it up and back spins it into Liverpool’s half then takes the kick.
Didn’t make any difference to us.
The offside rule is as bad as the handball rule now been tweaked to suit VAR.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			Shocking? Hang on. The refs at the moment can’t win. I like to commend the ref for sticking to his decision and doing it quickly. The stuff I’ve seen recently given for pens far exceeds that incident.
		
Click to expand...

So if the VAR ref says you better have another look, you think you should only watch it once from one angle (the worst angle).

Ok if the first angle shows the attacker getting cleaned out, but when the initial contact is kneeing the defender in the head, how can he give that?

I'll be honest in real time and before any replays I thought it was going to be a pen, but after seeing it in all other angles, as well as the first it was never a pen.

One look once when your asked to review?

Poor from one of the 4 greater Manchester based referees. 

Good performance by the blues, though. Welcome back Tiger man, its been so long.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought this as well but having looked at the law the player is offside in the opposition half but the offence doesn't take place until he becomes active in his own half.

"If an offside offence occurs, the referee awards an indirect free kick where the offence occurred, including if it is in the player’s own half of the field of play."

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

Click to expand...

So hypothetically if a ball is played forward and striker is offside but the wind blows it back and said striker catches the ball on the edge of his own penalty area.
A free kick is given for offside on the edge of his own area.
Who thinks these laws up.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 20, 2021)

How’s that not a pen for shef wed.
All the crap spouted about being to aggressive and following through on the player.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			How’s that not a pen for shef wed.
All the crap spouted about being to aggressive and following through on the player.
		
Click to expand...

United?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)




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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2021)

On non Merseyside matters, apparently there are some, the sweat must be forming on Tyneside right now. Fulham are putting scores together, their key goalscorer is out for a while and they are struggling for wins. 3 points is nothing.


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## SteveW86 (Feb 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He wasn’t though he was 15 yds inside the Everton half that’s why he was offside.
Everton player picks the ball up spins it into Liverpool’s half then takes the kick.
So not only in the wrong place but in the wrong half of the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

I must have not seen this incident then. I thought it was the one where Digne took the free kick right at the end and played a big cross field ball.


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## Tiger man (Feb 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So if the VAR ref says you better have another look, you think you should only watch it once from one angle (the worst angle).

Ok if the first angle shows the attacker getting cleaned out, but when the initial contact is kneeing the defender in the head, how can he give that?

I'll be honest in real time and before any replays I thought it was going to be a pen, but after seeing it in all other angles, as well as the first it was never a pen.

One look once when your asked to review?

Poor from one of the 4 greater Manchester based referees. 

Good performance by the blues, though. Welcome back Tiger man, its been so long.

Click to expand...

Haha, when it could be another 22 years till the next one it has to be enjoyed! Not the same with no fans though is it, cant really class it as home and away games this year but beggars cant be chooses.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 21, 2021)

Stat to piss off all the Hammers on here....

Moyes has never beaten a Mourinho team.(W0,D6,L8)

He has the worst record of ANY manager against him. ☹️


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			I must have not seen this incident then. I thought it was the one where Digne took the free kick right at the end and played a big cross field ball.
		
Click to expand...

No what happened a Liverpool player was off side. As happens with a free kick the first player got to the ball and kicked it forward towards the half way line. A second player walked to the ball picked it up and spun the ball into Liverpool’s half. For me it was a fair result but I thought the ref missed a few things during the game.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Stat to piss off all the Hammers on here....

Moyes has never beaten a Mourinho team.(W0,D6,L8)

He has the worst record of ANY manager against him. ☹️
		
Click to expand...

Id take a draw right now ... Keeps us above everyone for the moment and anything but a loss


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## rudebhoy (Feb 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On non Merseyside matters, apparently there are some, the sweat must be forming on Tyneside right now. Fulham are putting scores together, their key goalscorer is out for a while and they are struggling for wins. 3 points is nothing.
		
Click to expand...

Backed NUFC at 9/2 for the drop a couple of months back. They have improved recently but the loss of Wilson is a massive blow as he is the only decent striker they have. Glad to see Fulham putting a decent run together, although from what I've seen they miss far too many chances. Think it will go to the wire between those 2.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Backed NUFC at 9/2 for the drop a couple of months back. They have improved recently but the loss of Wilson is a massive blow as he is the only decent striker they have. Glad to see Fulham putting a decent run together, although from what I've seen they miss far too many chances. Think it will go to the wire between those 2.
		
Click to expand...

Ave just had a look at the fixtures for both teams for the rest of the season. Oh heck there brutal for both. So I don’t think there’s any advantage there. So where could it be decided. Last game of the season is, yup you have guessed it Fulham v Newcastle. Tasty. Those 3 extra points at the moment look massive for Newcastle.


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## Jensen (Feb 21, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Backed NUFC at 9/2 for the drop a couple of months back. They have improved recently but the loss of Wilson is a massive blow as he is the only decent striker they have. Glad to see Fulham putting a decent run together, although from what I've seen they miss far too many chances. Think it will go to the wire between those 2.
		
Click to expand...

I had you down as a Geordie, but I guess you’re a Mackem


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## Jensen (Feb 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On non Merseyside matters, apparently there are some, the sweat must be forming on Tyneside right now. Fulham are putting scores together, their key goalscorer is out for a while and they are struggling for wins. 3 points is nothing.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly, it’s looking very worrying for the Toon Army. For the life of me I can’t understand the Steve Bruce appointment, and I said so at the time.
He’s been all over the place and has never done anything, then again with an mackem on the coaching staff what else can you expect


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## rudebhoy (Feb 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Ave just had a look at the fixtures for both teams for the rest of the season. Oh heck there brutal for both. So I don’t think there’s any advantage there. So where could it be decided. *Last game of the season is, yup you have guessed it Fulham v Newcastle*. Tasty. Those 3 extra points at the moment look massive for Newcastle.
		
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What an end to the season that could be!


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## rudebhoy (Feb 21, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I had you down as a Geordie, but I guess you’re a Mackem
		
Click to expand...

Neither. If I have a soft spot for any English team, it's Dirty Leeds. 

The 'bhoy' in my user name should tell you where my true allegiance lies.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			United?
		
Click to expand...

Yes sorry shef Utd.past my bedtime.
No wonder the manager was a bit upset.
Refs are so inconsistent atm.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Sadly, it’s looking very worrying for the Toon Army. For the life of me I can’t understand the Steve Bruce appointment, and I said so at the time.
He’s been all over the place and has never done anything, then again with an mackem on the coaching staff what else can you expect
		
Click to expand...

He was available, cheap in PL terms and is used to working with a small budget. If he goes would it surprise you if Mark Hughes was next up?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

Apart from ogbonna being injured prob our strongest 11

Altho I would have loved to see benrahma play .. such a talent 

Bring on 12


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## Fade and Die (Feb 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 35164

Apart from ogbonna being injured prob our strongest 11

Altho I would have loved to see benrahma play .. such a talent

Bring on 12
		
Click to expand...

Phew Noble on the bench!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Phew Noble on the bench!
		
Click to expand...

That's worrying tbh. I'd rather see lanzini / fornals / Ben Johnson/ David Moyes given a chance in midfield instead of noble come on at any point now.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			That's worrying tbh. I'd rather see lanzini / fornals / Ben Johnson/ David Moyes given a chance in midfield instead of noble come on at any point now.
		
Click to expand...

No I’m happy to have him on the bench, lanzini, benrahama, bowen etc can all be a bit lightweight sometimes. We might need him to add a bit of bite. (Hope not but rather be looking at him than looking for him)
No what’s worrying for me is that we have too goalkeeper subs, that shows our depth of squad!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			No I’m happy to have him on the bench, lanzini, benrahama, bowen etc can all be a bit lightweight sometimes. We might need him to add a bit of bite. (Hope not but rather be looking at him than looking for him)
No what’s worrying for me is that we have too goalkeeper subs, that shows our depth of squad!
		
Click to expand...

I don't think it's that big a deal, the bench is allowed to be bigger now do think of normal times you would have 7 subs on the bench you wouldn't notice 

Frederick's has withdrawn I read so keeper took his place 

We still have yarmenlko, masauku and ogbonna on the treatment table so they could fill that place 

Bit late to call a youth player in


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## GreiginFife (Feb 21, 2021)

Just saw a stat showing Jack Grealish has been fouled 100 times, Wilf Zaha second at 57.
Now either its because Grealish is very good and thats the only way to stop him. 
Or, and I prefer this option, his stupid wearing of the socks and short shin pads just make people dislike him and target the tiny shinpad/socks combo.


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## AmandaJR (Feb 21, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Just saw a stat showing Jack Grealish has been fouled 100 times, Wilf Zaha second at 57.
Now either its because Grealish is very good and thats the only way to stop him.
Or, and I prefer this option, his stupid wearing of the socks and short shin pads just make people dislike him and target the tiny shinpad/socks combo.
		
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Also the very tight shorts and prancing around like my little pony!


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## AmandaJR (Feb 21, 2021)

Just can't watch Spurs without singing this every time Ndombele is mentioned in commentary 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312384408326938624


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Perfect use of VAR there.
		
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Yes because it's never offside .. fornals didn't even touch the ball!

Lingard. Wow what a talent


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yes because it's never offside .. fornals didn't even touch the ball!
		
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I kept looking at the replays waiting for the commentator to spot this but they didn't. It was obvious after 1 or 2 showings.

West Ham deserving this result so far.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2021)

Last words on positioning of offside free kick. Sent by a referee mate.

Top paragraph.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I kept looking at the replays waiting for the commentator to spot this but they didn't. It was obvious after 1 or 2 showings.

West Ham deserving this result so far.
		
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Yeah didn't get it at all

Slow down all you want but lingard was million miles inside and took it away from the player who may have been offside but wasn't 

So doesn't matter!


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## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Stat to piss off all the Hammers on here....

Moyes has never beaten a Mourinho team.(W0,D6,L8)

He has the worst record of ANY manager against him. ☹️
		
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Mourinho teams used to have defenders though I guess. 🤣


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Mourinho teams used to have defenders though I guess. 🤣
		
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You have defenders to be fair

Just poor recruitment has meant their rubbish defenders rather than his normal standard 

But then a good coach can get best out a player .. Dawson is a fine example


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## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yeah didn't get it at all

Slow down all you want but lingard was million miles inside and took it away from the player who may have been offside but wasn't

So doesn't matter!
		
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Yeah that was totally strange, I couldn't work out why he even put the flag up. Maybe he thought Fornals might have been interfering, but he wasn't.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Feb 21, 2021)

My two penneth, as an armchair Liverpool supporter of many years, I'd like them to miss out on Europe for next season, get the squad up to full strength and go for the League/Europe/domestic cups the following season.
They look like a team that is absolutely knackered from 3-4 seasons of high press football.


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## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			You have defenders to be fair

Just poor recruitment has meant their rubbish defenders rather than his normal standard

But then a good coach can get best out a player .. Dawson is a fine example
		
Click to expand...

Well you can't call Sanchez a defender, he's more of a comedian. When he plays we concede goals, it's that simple. Playing him and leaving Toby on the bench is one of the most baffling managerial decisions I've ever seen. Sanchez must be like Maldini in training, but on match day he's Ramon Vega. Joke.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well you can't call Sanchez a defender, he's more of a comedian. When he plays we concede goals, it's that simple. Playing him and leaving Toby on the bench is one of the most baffling managerial decisions I've ever seen. Sanchez must be like Maldini in training, but on match day he's Ramon Vega. Joke.
		
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You need a new keeper asap

First goal was on him tbh 

And at the end jezz almost handed it to benrahma


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)




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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)




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## AmandaJR (Feb 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 35170

Click to expand...

Have to admire the talent of people who come up with this stuff so fast! Brilliant.


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## Foxholer (Feb 21, 2021)

Hammers 'top of London' again!
Great to see, but I'm not confident it'll stay that way! Just happy that points exceed 'relegation number'!
And maybe some payback (fan attendance  notwithstanding!) for the owners who have had a few 'lean' years - perhaps of their own making!


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Last words on positioning of offside free kick. Sent by a referee mate.

Top paragraph.
		
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Thanks Tash..
Got to be honest I didn’t know that.
But who thought that one up it’s just a stupid rule.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thanks Tash..
Got to be honest I didn’t know that.
But who thought that one up it’s just a stupid rule.
		
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The guy I asked is a ref in the semi pro leagues, Vanarama Nth and Sth. He mentioned he has been kicked off a referees Facebook page for arguing. 😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The guy I asked is a ref in the semi pro leagues, Vanarama Nth and Sth. He mentioned he has been kicked off a referees Facebook page for arguing. 😂😂
		
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The way it’s worded imo is not good.
What offence is a player doing collecting the ball in his own half?
The offside offence is when the ball is played forward and he’s in an offside position.
Just give offside where he was.
Absolutely bonkers imo but rules are rules.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Have to admire the talent of people who come up with this stuff so fast! Brilliant.
		
Click to expand...


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## GG26 (Feb 21, 2021)

Another good performance from the Foxes - keep it going lads!


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## Slime (Feb 21, 2021)

David Luiz ....................... he's just a thug.
Awful challenge, absolutely no help to Arsenal whatsoever.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2021)

Slime said:



			David Luiz ....................... he's just a thug.
Awful challenge, absolutely no help to Arsenal whatsoever.
		
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I was actually quite glad he came on, he is useless.


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## Slime (Feb 21, 2021)

Bruno with another goal and an assist.
Dan James had a really good game too, he needs a run of games.
Did Homer's lot a favour.
Newcastle look pretty poor but Saint-Maximin is a real handful, he won't be there next season, he's far too good.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

Slime said:



			Bruno with another goal and an assist.
Dan James had a really good game too, he needs a run of games.
Did Homer's lot a favour.
Newcastle look pretty poor but Saint-Maximin is a real handful, he won't be there next season, he's far too good.
		
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I'd love to see him at West ham

Sign him and lingard .. Antonio isn't a long term solution and I'd see him as a replacement for him but will cost


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## Slime (Feb 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



*I'd love to see him at West ham*

Sign him and lingard .. Antonio isn't a long term solution and I'd see him as a replacement for him but will cost
		
Click to expand...

Who? 
Bruno or Saint-Maximin?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 21, 2021)

Slime said:



			Who?
Bruno or Saint-Maximin?  

Click to expand...

I dunno if Bruno would displace lingard tbh


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## chrisd (Feb 22, 2021)

A pretty comfortable win 😁😁


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## howbow88 (Feb 22, 2021)

Easy 3 points


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 22, 2021)

chrisd said:



			A pretty comfortable win 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

*CRIMEWATCH UPDATE*

Police are appealing for witnesses after 11 men in white shirts, believed to be from south London, committed what is being described as a "smash and grab" at the AMEX stadium in Brighton this evening. They were last seen leaving on a team coach with 3 points in the bag after their audacious raid.


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## chrisd (Feb 23, 2021)

What's the point in having loads and loads of shots at goal when two will suffice?

A lovely day at the seaside


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 23, 2021)

Brighton recruitment meeting:

"Well lads, where do you think we need to strengthen?" 

9 parts good, 1 part terrible. It would be a shame if that one part did for them but you can't go on ignoring a major weakness forever.


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## Orikoru (Feb 23, 2021)

Isn't that the first time Palace have won without Zaha in about a decade?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Isn't that the first time Palace have won without Zaha in about a decade?
		
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Must have won when he was at United 😆


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## Orikoru (Feb 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Must have won when he was at United 😆
		
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I'm not sure they did..


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## Swingalot (Feb 23, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



*CRIMEWATCH UPDATE*

Police are appealing for witnesses after 11 men in white shirts, believed to be from south London, committed what is being described as a "smash and grab" at the AMEX stadium in Brighton this evening. They were last seen leaving on a team coach with 3 points in the bag after their audacious raid.
		
Click to expand...


Ha ha, love it. It was one of the worse performances I've ever seen. We could not string a pass together and made Brighton look like Brazil and then we bring on Benteke of all people in the 95th minute and we score a cracker. 
We are a club with massive issues ahead in regards management, playing squad age/contract status and under investment BUT to watch us do that to Brighton last night (25 shots vs 3) was absolutely bloody amazing.


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## Piece (Feb 23, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			Ha ha, love it. It was one of the worse performances I've ever seen. We could not string a pass together and made Brighton look like Brazil and then we bring on Benteke of all people in the 95th minute and we score a cracker.
We are a club with massive issues ahead in regards management, playing squad age/contract status and under investment BUT to watch us do that to Brighton last night (25 shots vs 3) was absolutely bloody amazing.
		
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Admittedly it was one-way traffic, smash and grab etc., but the defending and blocking was excellent from Palace.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364276483657711619
🤔🤷‍♂️

Now whilst they don’t deserve abuse they certainly imo don’t deserve to be “clapped onto the pitch”

What they need to do is ensure they do their job correctly - that might help them getting more respect


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2021)

If it’s not a penalty then the Soton forward should be booked for simulation.

This should happen in 99% of matches to cut out attempted cheating.


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## Captainron (Feb 23, 2021)

Footballers are a bunch of diving pansies!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Footballers are a bunch of diving pansies!
		
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At times they are, but there are also times they are genuinely on the receiving end of a bad tackle.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			If it’s not a penalty then the Soton forward should be booked for simulation.

This should happen in 99% of matches to cut out attempted cheating.

Click to expand...

If they start using VAR properly (as they did tonight in my opinion) strikers will soon learn that they aren't going to fool the ref and may even realise its better to try and stay on their feet. But until officials can get simple decisions correct with the aid of a vidoe replay then its going to keep happening.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			At times they are, but there are also times they are genuinely on the receiving end of a bad tackle.
		
Click to expand...

But there is the middle ground

It can be not a foul or a dive


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			But there is the middle ground

*It can be not a foul or a dive*

Click to expand...

And the flip side of that being that it can be a foul AND a dive. Would love to see refs start giving penalties for fouls and also booking the attacker for diving.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 23, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And the flip side of that being that it can be a foul AND a dive. Would love to see refs start giving penalties for fouls and also booking the attacker for diving.
		
Click to expand...

Very true


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			But there is the middle ground

It can be not a foul or a dive
		
Click to expand...

Of course there is, but I was defending the generalised “Footballers are a bunch of diving pansies!” daft comment.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And the flip side of that being that it can be a foul AND a dive. Would love to see refs start giving penalties for fouls and also booking the attacker for diving.
		
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I believe that would be impossible to get any sort of consistency though and open up a can of worms.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 23, 2021)

Didn't want to get told off for turning the Random Irritations thread into another football thread so my random football irritation is my team. The following two images are pretty self explanatory.






That's 13 games without a win and we've gone from 9 points away from being top of the table to 9 points away from being bottom.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2021)

Quality finish from Giroud.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 24, 2021)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...tar-pulls-all-his-old-tricks-in-chelsea-loss/

🤦‍♂️


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## Beezerk (Feb 24, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...tar-pulls-all-his-old-tricks-in-chelsea-loss/

🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

He's such an embarrassment to the game.


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## Piece (Feb 24, 2021)

Watch: Guatemalan player hits himself with object thrown onto pitch - BBC Sport


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## Kellfire (Feb 24, 2021)

Piece said:



Watch: Guatemalan player hits himself with object thrown onto pitch - BBC Sport



Click to expand...

This is brilliant. 😂


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 24, 2021)

Piece said:



Watch: Guatemalan player hits himself with object thrown onto pitch - BBC Sport



Click to expand...

He was already going down before hitting himself.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 24, 2021)

Lucas Digne has signed a new contract until 2025. That means we either keep him or anyone wanting to buy him has to pay a small fortune. Great news for Everton, I'm hoping he stays with us.

It's been a great week for us. Derby win, new ground gets planning approval yesterday, Digne signs new deal today.


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## 4LEX (Feb 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Lucas Digne has signed a new contract until 2025. That means we either keep him or anyone wanting to buy him has to pay a small fortune. Great news for Everton, I'm hoping he stays with us.

It's been a great week for us. Derby win, *new ground gets planning approval yesterday*, Digne signs new deal today.
		
Click to expand...

It'll be under water by the time it's built!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 24, 2021)

4LEX said:



			It'll be under water by the time it's built! 

Click to expand...

You must have missed the last page of the plan. The ground will rise / float with water like houses do in Holland 🤭.

The one issue I haven't seen resolved is traffic links. The current set up along that road is not fit for purpose so hopefully they have a cunning plan to move 52k people in and out on match day whilst also dealing with the existing traffic that goes along there.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You must have missed the last page of the plan. The ground will rise / float with water like houses do in Holland 🤭.

The one issue I haven't seen resolved is traffic links. The current set up along that road is not fit for purpose so hopefully they have a cunning plan to move 52k people in and out on match day whilst also dealing with the existing traffic that goes along there.
		
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http://www.infrastructure-intellige...ew-everton-stadium-plans-unanimously-approved


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You must have missed the last page of the plan. The ground will rise / float with water like houses do in Holland 🤭.

The one issue I haven't seen resolved is traffic links. The current set up along that road is not fit for purpose so hopefully they have a cunning plan to move 52k people in and out on match day whilst also dealing with the existing traffic that goes along there.
		
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Water taxi.
From a park and ride
The roads there are worse than around Goodson ,very narrow.
The Southport line is just up the hill as well.
It does look very good.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 24, 2021)

4LEX said:



			It'll be under water by the time it's built! 

Click to expand...

They will also save space when building the trophy room 😁

With the lack of success of Arsenal , Spurs , West Ham since they moved to shiney new stadiums it will be interesting to see how this moves forward.


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## 4LEX (Feb 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You must have missed the last page of the plan. The ground will rise / float with water like houses do in Holland 🤭.

The one issue I haven't seen resolved is traffic links. The current set up along that road is not fit for purpose so hopefully they have a cunning plan to move 52k people in and out on match day whilst also dealing with the existing traffic that goes along there.
		
Click to expand...

Could be the worlds highest building 

Looks really good to be fair. A shame to see the back of Goodison though. Remember going with mates to an FA Cup game in 2005 against Man Utd in the away end. All dayer, 5.30 Saturday kick off, incredible atmosphere, a riot and a great night back in Manchester


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 24, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Could be the worlds highest building 

Looks really good to be fair. A shame to see the back of Goodison though. Remember going with mates to an FA Cup game in 2005 against Man Utd in the away end. All dayer, 5.30 Saturday kick off, incredible atmosphere, a riot and a great night back in Manchester 

Click to expand...

From all that I've read they have been keen to build a football stadium, not a morgue like the Olympic stadium. The design, acoustics etc are aimed at keeping a proper atmosphere. Whether that happens or not is to be seen but at least they have thought about it and hopefully factored it in.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 24, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



http://www.infrastructure-intellige...ew-everton-stadium-plans-unanimously-approved

Click to expand...

That doesn't say a great deal and what it does say is a bit wishy washy. It will be interesting to see it develop but this aspect is crucial. The potential for gridlock is pretty high.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That doesn't say a great deal and what it does say is a bit wishy washy. It will be interesting to see it develop but this aspect is crucial. The potential for gridlock is pretty high.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t believe it is, lot more will use the trains or walk, plus the buses from Bootle/Town etc it’ll be easier, you’ve got the dock road towards Bootle and straight out on to M57/M58, that route is already used by the Docks traffic so won’t need improving, Coach park for the travelling fans and road out towards East Lancs from centre of town plus the 2 tunnels, you’ve got to think it’s going in to an area that has next to no houseing etc and is currently very quiet on a weekend.

It’ll be far easier than getting in and out of Goodison.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 24, 2021)

I hope you are right. Last time I came along the dock road it took me about 20 minutes to travel 2-3 miles. It didn't fill me with hope.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			From all that I've read they have been keen to build a football stadium, not a morgue like the Olympic stadium. The design, acoustics etc are aimed at keeping a proper atmosphere. Whether that happens or not is to be seen but at least they have thought about it and hopefully factored it in.
		
Click to expand...

I think they'll have a job. Every modern stadium I've been to has been reallypoor compared to the ground it replaced. The fans are just too far away from the pitch nowadays to create that intimidating factor you would get at older grounds. Take The Dell for instance, awful horrible little ground, butit was worth probably 15 points a season for us (and I loved it all the same). Ninian Park was probably the most intimidating ground I've been to as an away fan, but Cardiff city stadium you'd take your granny to. Haven't been to the Olympic staidium yet but I'm guessing its not a patch on the Boleyn


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## pauljames87 (Feb 24, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t believe it is, lot more will use the trains or walk, plus the buses from Bootle/Town etc it’ll be easier, you’ve got the dock road towards Bootle and straight out on to M57/M58, that route is already used by the Docks traffic so won’t need improving, Coach park for the travelling fans and road out towards East Lancs from centre of town plus the 2 tunnels, you’ve got to think it’s going in to an area that has next to no houseing etc and is currently very quiet on a weekend.

It’ll be far easier than getting in and out of Goodison.
		
Click to expand...

I always thought going the bowl was going to improve travel no end

Going from one rammed station on the district line to Stratford with 2 underground lines, DLR, at least 2 national rail lines plus a few stations locally

It's a nightmare getting out!


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## DanFST (Feb 24, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			I think they'll have a job. Every modern stadium I've been to has been reallypoor compared to the ground it replaced. The fans are just too far away from the pitch nowadays to create that intimidating factor you would get at older grounds. Take The Dell for instance, awful horrible little ground, butit was worth probably 15 points a season for us (and I loved it all the same). Ninian Park was probably the most intimidating ground I've been to as an away fan, but Cardiff city stadium you'd take your granny to. Haven't been to the Olympic staidium yet but I'm guessing its not a patch on the Boleyn
		
Click to expand...


I hate to admit it, but the new Spurs ground is bloody fantastic. Much better than before.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 24, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I hate to admit it, but the new Spurs ground is bloody fantastic. Much better than before.
		
Click to expand...

Amazing build 

Amazing how many fires at buildings that wouldn't sell up occured during development aswell lol


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I hope you are right. Last time I came along the dock road it took me about 20 minutes to travel 2-3 miles. It didn't fill me with hope.
		
Click to expand...

But the plan says there will be road closures and traffic management systems put in place for games.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 24, 2021)

If you were wondering what had happened to Dominic Cummings it appears that he took off his glasses and got himself a job as manager of Preston.....




P.S. This is purely a look-a-like post and not a political post.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364855905213239300
Awful news for him


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## SaintHacker (Feb 25, 2021)

Bloody hell thats awful. Will he be allowed to go home?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 25, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Bloody hell thats awful. Will he be allowed to go home?
		
Click to expand...

Klopp couldn't go to his mother's funeral so would assume not 

Awful for him


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Bloody hell thats awful. Will he be allowed to go home?
		
Click to expand...

There is nothing stopping him going back, same as for Klopp. The problem is that he would likely need to isolate when he gets there and the same when he comes back. That could add up to 5-6 weeks in total which during the season is problematic.

Awful news for him and his family.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 25, 2021)

Really bad news.

It’s a tough choice he has but I would not want to miss my dads funeral no matter what my job was.


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## Orikoru (Feb 25, 2021)

This is a bit old now but I've only just seen it so apologies if it was already discussed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301566972241551368
No idea if the numbers are true. But being classed as asthmatic means they're allowed to take certain performance-enhancing substances that players are banned from taking otherwise. 22 asthmatics. Hmmmmmm.


----------



## Slime (Feb 25, 2021)

Ooh, that'll bring the conspiracy theorists out.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2021)

Wow, as unlucky as all of those cyclists 😳.

Is this accurate or a naughty rumour?


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## USER1999 (Feb 25, 2021)

At least if they aren't playing at the weekend they can double up as professional cyclists.


----------



## fundy (Feb 25, 2021)

So good from Saka and great to see Aubam scoring goals again


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			This is a bit old now but I've only just seen it so apologies if it was already discussed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301566972241551368
No idea if the numbers are true. But being classed as asthmatic means they're allowed to take certain performance-enhancing substances that players are banned from taking otherwise. 22 asthmatics. Hmmmmmm.
		
Click to expand...

“*According to a source close to the club*, of 35 players 22 are asthmatic – 63% of the squad, over five times higher than the 12% UK average.”

Which source is that then 🙄

It’s also about 7 months old now and zero credible confirmation to back up and faceless claim 🙄


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## MegaSteve (Feb 25, 2021)

Oh poo...


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“*According to a source close to the club*, of 35 players 22 are asthmatic – 63% of the squad, over five times higher than the 12% UK average.”

Which source is that then 🙄

It’s also about 7 months old now and zero credible confirmation to back up and faceless claim 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Lance Armstrong said that


----------



## Hogieefc (Feb 25, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You must have missed the last page of the plan. The ground will rise / float with water like houses do in Holland 🤭.

The one issue I haven't seen resolved is traffic links. The current set up along that road is not fit for purpose so hopefully they have a cunning plan to move 52k people in and out on match day whilst also dealing with the existing traffic that goes along there.
		
Click to expand...

I`m hoping they may run a ferry from the wirral direct to the ground but even if its to the pier head its only a walk away, as for cars i am sure there must be something in place to get planning permission.


----------



## fundy (Feb 25, 2021)

1 stupid error and staring down the gun of away goals we seem to want to try and defend and sit deeper and deeper against a side who have offered so little and we should already be home and safe

Utter lack of pace in central midfield and defence leaves us sitting deeper and deeper, badly need a pair of legs in midfield (apart from Partey we loaned them all out in January  )


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## Kellfire (Feb 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“*According to a source close to the club*, of 35 players 22 are asthmatic – 63% of the squad, over five times higher than the 12% UK average.”

Which source is that then 🙄

It’s also about 7 months old now and zero credible confirmation to back up and faceless claim 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Hey, I wonder if you could back up the claim that Indian umpires are biased without evidence.


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## fundy (Feb 25, 2021)

and there it is, yet another stupid error


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## MegaSteve (Feb 25, 2021)

Oh, poo... AGAIN


----------



## fundy (Feb 25, 2021)

great hit from tierney, seems were relying on the same 3 or 4 to dig us out as usual


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## fundy (Feb 25, 2021)

brilliant from saka again  any chance anyone wants to help the kid out


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## fundy (Feb 25, 2021)

Well somehow were through, thanks Saka Tierney and Aubam


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2021)

Enjoyable watch for us neutrals, seemed like Arsenal only game to life in the 2nd half once Benfica went 2-1 up.


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## MegaSteve (Feb 25, 2021)

Bum clencher finish... But through...
Still masses of improvement required in parts...


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## fundy (Feb 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Enjoyable watch for us neutrals, seemed like Arsenal only game to life in the 2nd half once Benfica went 2-1 up.
		
Click to expand...

glad someone enjoyed it lol


----------



## fundy (Feb 25, 2021)

For all the talk of too many games and players needing rest utterly amazed to see Bruno Fernandes playing for united when 4-0 up from the first leg


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			glad someone enjoyed it lol
		
Click to expand...

What’s not to like, couple of decent goals, mistakes, team coming from behind, English team through and the despair and relief on this thread.


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They will also save space when building the trophy room 😁

With the *lack of success* of Arsenal , Spurs , *West Ham since they moved to shiney new stadiums* it will be interesting to see how this moves forward.
		
Click to expand...

Wut? 🤔😂


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## Hogieefc (Feb 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They will also save space when building the trophy room 😁

With the lack of success of Arsenal , Spurs , West Ham since they moved to shiney new stadiums it will be interesting to see how this moves forward.
		
Click to expand...

A shiny new stadium has not turned out too bad for Man City 🤔😉


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## Slime (Feb 25, 2021)

The United game ............................. time I will never get back.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			This is a bit old now but I've only just seen it so apologies if it was already discussed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301566972241551368
No idea if the numbers are true. But being classed as asthmatic means they're allowed to take certain performance-enhancing substances that players are banned from taking otherwise. 22 asthmatics. Hmmmmmm.
		
Click to expand...

Blimey 😬


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## Hobbit (Feb 26, 2021)

Not sure what the Prem clubs are doing but Middlesbrough have announced that anyone with a season ticket for this season will automatically be given one for next season irrespective of whether or not fans are allowed back in this season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365687301326659584
What an embarrassment

Referee blows the whistle so they take the free kick but then blows it again just before the ball goes in so it’s disallowed 

Brighton denied a goal but the utter incompetence of Mason 

And someone wants the players to clap them onto the pitch 😂😂😂


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2021)

Surely it wouldn't have counted as there was a player in an offside postion.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Surely it wouldn't have counted as there was a player in an offside postion.
		
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That only matters if that player is interfering


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That only matters if that player is interfering
		
Click to expand...

Which I believe he was.
He clearly backed out of the way of the ball.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Which I believe he was.
He clearly backed out of the way of the ball.
		
Click to expand...

He wasn’t interfering with the line of sight of GK who over the other side of the goal - “moving out of the way  “ doesn’t put him offside unless he makes a play at the ball.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 27, 2021)

How thick are these commentators! Welbeck takes the penalty, he hits the post and then plays the rebound, Ref correctly awards an indirect free kick against him and the commentator comes out with “that’s because Welbeck is in an offside position”


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*He wasn’t interfering with the line of sight of GK* who over the other side of the goal - “moving out of the way  “ doesn’t put him offside unless he makes a play at the ball.
		
Click to expand...

That's as maybe, but he still had to get out of the way of the ball.
I'd say that was interfering ......................... but 'interfering with play' is a subjective call.


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## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2021)

Damn, I think Lee Mason might be given next week off. What has he done there?? Did he blow the whistle for them to take it but then realise the keeper wasn't ready and change his mind? Farce.



pauldj42 said:



			How thick are these commentators! Welbeck takes the penalty, he hits the post and then plays the rebound, Ref correctly awards an indirect free kick against him and the commentator comes out with “that’s because Welbeck is in an offside position” 

Click to expand...

That's hilarious as well. Wouldn't surprise me if it was Peter Walton saying that as well.


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## Dando (Feb 28, 2021)

Lee Mason has been replaced as fourth official for Sheffield United against Liverpool on Sunday due to injury.


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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2021)

Dando said:



			Lee Mason has been replaced as fourth official for Sheffield United against Liverpool on Sunday due to injury.
		
Click to expand...

Is it a brain injury?


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## USER1999 (Feb 28, 2021)

Shocking defending here, but it lead from a Xhaka mistake. Again.


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Shocking defending here, but it lead from a Xhaka mistake. Again.
		
Click to expand...


Arteta clearly decided before the game our eggs are in the Europa basket, horror horror line up, no excuse for how bad theyve started and how they gifted Tielemans a goal though


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## USER1999 (Feb 28, 2021)

Dive for me.

Or, it's the contact outside the box.

Certainly no penalty.


----------



## fundy (Feb 28, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Dive for me.

Or, it's the contact outside the box.

Certainly no penalty.
		
Click to expand...


clear dive for me sadly


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## USER1999 (Feb 28, 2021)

I agree Arsenal needed to rotate and rest some players, but this just shows the gulf in class between a few of the first choice, and the other options. Some (most) of these players need to be moved on this summer.


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			I agree Arsenal needed to rotate and rest some players, but this just shows the gulf in class between a few of the first choice, and the other options. Some (most) of these players need to be moved on this summer.
		
Click to expand...


why do Luiz and Xhaka never get rotated/rested?


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2021)

wooohooo the chelsea pensionners have scored a goal


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## USER1999 (Feb 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			why do Luiz and Xhaka never get rotated/rested?
		
Click to expand...

They don't work hard enough to get tired?


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## MegaSteve (Feb 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			wooohooo the chelsea pensionners have scored a goal
		
Click to expand...

Just adding to my underwhelment ...


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2021)

Not quite sure how but were ahead at HT


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## USER1999 (Feb 28, 2021)

Even more so now.


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## USER1999 (Feb 28, 2021)

Cedric has some pace, watching that.


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## USER1999 (Feb 28, 2021)

This is the first game that I have seen where Willian actually looks like he can be bothered to play. He isn't great, but he is way better than in any other game.


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## paddyc (Feb 28, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			This is the first game that I have seen where Willian actually looks like he can be bothered to play. He isn't great, but he is way better than in any other game.
		
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Not  only sure he has done enough  to earn the MOTM award from Keown. the boy Pepe has done well I have to say


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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2021)

Burnley must be awful. We've gone through them like a hot knife through butter. Bale looks like a proper player again though! Took a while but lovely to see in the last few games.


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## Slime (Feb 28, 2021)

That should be a penalty, no doubt.


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2021)

Slime said:



			That should be a penalty, no doubt.
		
Click to expand...

no one knows whats a penalty anymore, least of all the referees! the inconsistency is utterly remarkable


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## Kellfire (Feb 28, 2021)

Slime said:



			That should be a penalty, no doubt.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t understand why it isn’t with the current rules but at the same time I don’t think it should be...


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## pauljames87 (Feb 28, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Text to Radio 5 Live today:
Bale suddenly looks like he just found out the golf courses will be opening soon 😅
		
Click to expand...

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/youve-got-to-see-gareth-bale-backyard-golf-course

His home course never closed


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 28, 2021)

Chelsea dodged a bullet there.


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## BrianM (Feb 28, 2021)

Definitely a penalty in the current climate....


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 28, 2021)

Slime said:



			That should be a penalty, no doubt.
		
Click to expand...

well let’s be honest it was never a few kick in first place - McTominey kicked Mount in the head

Add in Lindelof flying into Ariel challenges - he is going to hurt someone badly soon


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## BrianM (Feb 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			well let’s be honest it was never a few kick in first place - McTominey kicked Mount in the head
		
Click to expand...

He got the ball first, his heads lowered as well.


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## Hobbit (Feb 28, 2021)

Shocked to hear Glenn Roeder has died. Fantastic player... sad news.


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## BrianM (Feb 28, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Shocked to hear Glenn Roeder has died. Fantastic player... sad news.
		
Click to expand...

Only 65 as well.


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## paddyc (Feb 28, 2021)

Just came in to the last 20mins  doesn't look like I've missed much.  there last game was a 0-0 bore draw. seems to be regular man u score against  the top clubs. if you suffer with insomnia  watch utd.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 28, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Text to Radio 5 Live today:
Bale suddenly looks like he just found out the golf courses will be opening soon 😅
		
Click to expand...


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## Rlburnside (Feb 28, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



View attachment 35356

Click to expand...

😂😂. It’s always been open for him


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366043148603039746
Can anyone think of a reason why they can’t do this in the Prem ? Or would it be too much transparency for the referee to handle


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## fundy (Mar 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366043148603039746
Can anyone think of a reason why they can’t do this in the Prem ? Or would it be too much transparency for the referee to handle
		
Click to expand...

Watch again and imagine the ref is Mike Dean in this example


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## Bdill93 (Mar 1, 2021)

Another solid performance from the mighty Aston Villa this weekend! Early goal from Anwar followed by solid defending for 90 minutes - all without Jack Grealish!

Love the positive steps forward this year, 3 dropped points from winning positions... first in the league in that stat! Last year we dropped the most!

Teams must surely look at us on their fixture sheet now and know theyre in for a game!

Up the Villa!


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## pauljames87 (Mar 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Another solid performance from the mighty Aston Villa this weekend! Early goal from Anwar followed by solid defending for 90 minutes - all without Jack Grealish!

Love the positive steps forward this year, 3 dropped points from winning positions... first in the league in that stat! Last year we dropped the most!

Teams must surely look at us on their fixture sheet now and know theyre in for a game!

Up the Villa!
		
Click to expand...

Good to see aswell, good game 

Personally our game I've never seen a defeat with so many postives that you come out of it almost more confident then you went into the game 

Held our own against city 

Pegged them back to 1-1, reduced them to only 3 shots on target .. almost grabbed an equaliser in last minute

Good game all round ..

Shows what Moyes is building


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366043148603039746
Can anyone think of a reason why they can’t do this in the Prem ? Or would it be too much transparency for the referee to handle
		
Click to expand...

What benefit would there be?

Some fans,  players and managers would continue to disagree just as they do now with our version of VAR.

Considering it was supposed to ensure that we got the right decisions and all parties would be happy it (VAR) hasn't exactly been a  resounding success. 

And the involvement of TV replays appears to now be creating problems in other sports, such as cricket and rugby.

Personally I would be happier if we handed responsibility for decisions back to the on field officials.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			What benefit would there be?

Some fans,  players and managers would continue to disagree just as they do now with our version of VAR.

Considering it was supposed to ensure that we got the right decisions and all parties would be happy it (VAR) hasn't exactly been a  resounding success.

And the involvement of TV replays appears to now be creating problems in other sports, such as cricket and rugby.

Personally I would be happier if we handed responsibility for decisions back to the on field officials.
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn't work in our game at all..

We have built from the fans to players to managers a lack of respect for the officials 

Even when they are right people call them out. Say they done a poor job


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Wouldn't work in our game at all..

We have built from the fans to players to managers a lack of respect for the officials

Even when they are right people call them out. Say they done a poor job
		
Click to expand...

Yes, some years ago I knew a FIFA level ref and at a time when  refs decisions were questioned far less than today his somewhat cynical view was that if both sides moaned about him he must have got it about right.


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## Orikoru (Mar 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366043148603039746
Can anyone think of a reason why they can’t do this in the Prem ? Or would it be too much transparency for the referee to handle
		
Click to expand...

What do you mean? How they came to the decision? Or do you mean the referee being miked up so we can hear what he says?


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## fundy (Mar 1, 2021)

Decent diving contest this between Richarlison and Digne lol, Richarlison winning on quantity, Digne on quality for me


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 1, 2021)

Couple of hours of my life I’ll never get back.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 1, 2021)

1pt from the last 27 for Saints. Heading for a relegation battle.


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## richart (Mar 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Decent diving contest this between Richarlison and Digne lol, Richarlison winning on quantity, Digne on quality for me
		
Click to expand...

Richarlison’s screaming is better though.


----------



## fundy (Mar 1, 2021)

richart said:



			Richarlison’s screaming is better though.

Click to expand...


categorically the worst thing of this season is the amount of them screaming like little girls


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2021)

richart said:



			Richarlison’s screaming is better though.

Click to expand...

He is shocking at that - in the Derby you thought the guy had lost a leg with one of his screams


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## SaintHacker (Mar 1, 2021)

drive4show said:



			1pt from the last 27 for Saints. Heading for a relegation battle.
		
Click to expand...

Has a team ever topped the league and gone down in the same season?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is shocking at that - in the Derby you thought the guy had lost a leg with one of his screams
		
Click to expand...

Especially when his goal went in.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2021)

Ian St John has passed away. RIP Saint.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366678839674482693
Sad news 😢


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 2, 2021)

What a very full life he led though, both playing and post playing. One to celebrate.

Saint & Greavsie is still the best football double act. Great show for those who remember it.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366678839674482693
Sad news 😢
		
Click to expand...

He did an after dinner speech at our club about 2-3 years ago and didn't look great then.

One of my Dad's heroes, brought the first FA cup back to Anfield and part of Shank's first great team.

Saint and Greavesie was a great knockabout show, pees all over soccer AM.

RIP Saint.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			He did an after dinner speech at our club about 2-3 years ago and didn't look great then.

One of my Dad's heroes, brought the first FA cup back to Anfield and part of Shank's first great team.

Saint and Greavesie was a great knockabout show, pees all over soccer AM.

RIP Saint.
		
Click to expand...

Having already been fortunate enough to meet my hero, his mate Greavesie I was really chuffed to meet Saint at Wallasey GC.

Neither of them disappointed as each was really down to  earth and good fun.

May you rest in peace Saint.

"Jesus saves!"
" But St John knocks in the rebound!"


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 2, 2021)

RIP

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366692066500243457


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 2, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Having already been fortunate enough to meet my hero, his mate Greavesie I was really chuffed to meet Saint at Wallasey GC.

Neither of them disappointed as each was really down to  earth and good fun.

May you rest in peace Saint.

"Jesus saves!"
" But St John knocks in the rebound!"
		
Click to expand...

I think the older players were generally more down to earth, Mickie.

Would I want to go for a bevy with many of these chaps in 20 years, not many.

Milner, Robbo maybe thats it.

What would you do if Jesus came to Liverpool?" a church poster asked.
To which someone had added: "Move St John to inside right and play 4-3-3."


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think the older players were generally more down to earth, Mickie.

Would I want to go for a bevy with many of these chaps in 20 years, not many.

Milner, Robbo maybe thats it.

What would you do if Jesus came to Liverpool?" a church poster asked.
To which someone had added: "Move St John to inside right and play 4-3-3."
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely right about the older players. 

I was fortunate enough to once spend a Saturday afternoon playing a friendly 4BBB with three ex-pros who had 1400 appearances at the top level, UEFA & FA Cup and World Cup medals between them. 

Great company, great  stories and we drank tea not Cristal champagne  afterwards.

No side to any of them.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 2, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Absolutely right about the older players.

I was fortunate enough to once spend a Saturday afternoon playing a friendly 4BBB with three ex-pros who had 1400 appearances at the top level, UEFA & FA Cup and World Cup medals between them.

Great company, great  stories and we drank tea not Cristal champagne  afterwards.

No side to any of them.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly it’ll probably more down to the circumstances of their upbringing and the society they grew up in, I knew a couple of local lads (who played at the top level) and their families wouldn’t of allowed them to forget were they came from.

Our insurance man who’d collect around the streets in the mid 70’s was Dave Hickson who played for both Everton and Liverpool in the 50’s and early 60’s, he needed to work once his career was over.

A different generation to the modern footballer, but that also doesn’t mean we haven’t got any decent modern pro’s either, just times have changed.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 2, 2021)

I used to play in a charity team for Radio City in Liverpool.
Played against Saint a few times in a ex LFC/ EFC veterans team , he must have been in his forties by then 
Still the best player on the park.
He was just a very nice man , left his studs in me a few times though with a little chuckle.

Very sad day 
RIP.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think the older players were generally more down to earth, Mickie.

Would I want to go for a bevy with many of these chaps in 20 years, not many.

Milner, Robbo maybe thats it.

What would you do if Jesus came to Liverpool?" a church poster asked.
To which someone had added: "Move St John to inside right and play 4-3-3."
		
Click to expand...

Was that the church at the end of Edge Lane ?
Been some great quotes on that billboard.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Sadly it’ll probably more down to the circumstances of their upbringing and the society they grew up in, I knew a couple of local lads (who played at the top level) and their families wouldn’t of allowed them to forget were they came from.

Our insurance man who’d collect around the streets in the mid 70’s was Dave Hickson who played for both Everton and Liverpool in the 50’s and early 60’s, he needed to work once his career was over.

A different generation to the modern footballer, but that also doesn’t mean we haven’t got any decent modern pro’s either, just times have changed.
		
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong Paul I am sure that many of the current generation are decent lads.

You only have to look at what many of them do for charity. 

My observation was more a reflection of how afterwards it occurred to me that despite their achievements they had remained firmly rooted in the real world.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Was that the church at the end of Edge Lane ?
Been some great quotes on that billboard.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure, it was in the echo, but yeah the one on the corner has some crackers over the years, by Holt road.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 2, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Absolutely right about the older players.

I was fortunate enough to once spend a Saturday afternoon playing a friendly 4BBB with three ex-pros who had 1400 appearances at the top level, UEFA & FA Cup and World Cup medals between them.

Great company, great  stories and we drank tea not Cristal champagne  afterwards.

No side to any of them.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, a lot think they are a "playa" once they have the Maserati, a sleeve of tattoos on one arm and a bird from Love island on the other.


----------



## MegaSteve (Mar 3, 2021)

On recent performances should Vanilla let Grealish go they'd be in trouble...


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			On recent performances should Vanilla let Grealish go they'd be in trouble...
		
Click to expand...

Vanilla 😳😂😂😂 bloody auto correct


----------



## fundy (Mar 3, 2021)

VAR at it again in the Sheff Utd Villa game


----------



## paddyc (Mar 3, 2021)

Yet another Man U 0-0 how boring to watch are they!


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## fundy (Mar 3, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Yet another Man U 0-0 how boring to watch are they!
		
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dunno, couldnt see anything it was too foggy


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## fundy (Mar 3, 2021)

for those who think VAR is horrific, the penalty Swansea have just been given in injury time is why we have it lol, what was the ref watching


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## Swingalot (Mar 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			dunno, couldnt see anything it was too foggy 

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Wish it was foggy for most of our games


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## paddyc (Mar 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			dunno, couldnt see anything it was too foggy 

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I saw the last 10 seconds.If i cant get to sleep later I will watch the re run.


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## Swingalot (Mar 3, 2021)

paddyc said:



			I saw the last 10 seconds.If i cant get to sleep later I will watch the re run.
		
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Trust me, you'll be snoring like a baby by the 10 minute mark.

United were very very sloppy. Did not seem to want to win it at the end and we should have grabbed it late on.


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## Piece (Mar 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			for those who think VAR is horrific, the penalty Swansea have just been given in injury time is why we have it lol, what was the ref watching
		
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That was laughable. I was about to commend the ref for booking the Swansea player for diving. 😱


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 4, 2021)

Shows how weak the league is if Man Utd are currently the 2nd best team.


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## Orikoru (Mar 4, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Yet another Man U 0-0 how boring to watch are they!
		
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Suits me fine, I have Wan-Bissaka in Fantasy League. Tidy score for him this week.


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## howbow88 (Mar 4, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			Trust me, you'll be snoring like a baby by the 10 minute mark.

United were very very sloppy. Did not seem to want to win it at the end and we should have grabbed it late on.
		
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Big improvement last night though, compared to the previous couple of games. Dreadful composure from Van Aanholt at the end, but he was probably offside anyway.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Suits me fine, I have Wan-Bissaka in Fantasy League. Tidy score for him this week. 

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Doesn't suit me I captained Bruno for his double game week
Head to head lost no doubt


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 4, 2021)

Blimey, Everton are painful to watch so far. Can we stop the game, let Dunc rip into them and restart? We desperately need to up our tempo.

Iwobi is having an Iwobi game 😢


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2021)

3.3 for that hideous effort from Kane


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## MegaSteve (Mar 4, 2021)

Fulham remain parlous when in front of goal...
Won't be long before Scottie loses those splendid locks...


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## Reemul (Mar 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Blimey, Everton are painful to watch so far. Can we stop the game, let Dunc rip into them and restart? We desperately need to up our tempo.

Iwobi is having an Iwobi game 😢
		
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We are so up and down it's ridiculous, we hav e been very poor against the likes of Fulham, Newcastle and WBA.


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			Fulham remain parlous when in front of goal...
Won't be long before Scottie loses those splendid locks...
		
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not easy when goals like that are ruled out, i dont care what the rules are but how on earth is that handball?


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## MegaSteve (Mar 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			not easy when goals like that are ruled out, i dont care what the rules are but how on earth is that handball?
		
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Rules are for the guidance of wise people...
Clearly no wise folk at Stockley...


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 4, 2021)

Reemul said:



			We are so up and down it's ridiculous, we hav e been very poor against the likes of Fulham, Newcastle and WBA.
		
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We need to up the tempo against teams that sit back. It's criminal when you look at where we gave dropped points this season.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2021)

Well if that’s the 4th best team in the PL this has to be one of the poorest, worst season’s ever.

Obviously last season is still THE worst.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Well if that’s the 4th best team in the PL this has to be one of the poorest, worst season’s ever.

Obviously last season is still THE worst.

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2 bad performances, 6 points. We can't keep getting away with playing like that though. 

If utd are 2nd and we are 4th playing like this then it really must be the 2nd worst PL season ever 😄


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			2 bad performances, 6 points. We can't keep getting away with playing like that though.

If utd are 2nd and we are 4th playing like this then it really must be the 2nd worst PL season ever 😄
		
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Dosnt look like any one can give City a run for their money this year.
So I would say the worst .
But hardly surprising the amount of games they have played .

WBA a bit unlucky there,
Another toenail offside, they really need to sort that out and use the torso.


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2021)

give up VAR, youre drunk


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2021)

Looks like VAR have the line on Werners wrist ?
That can’t be right surley


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			give up VAR, youre drunk
		
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I thought that was a shocker.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2021)

I have no idea what the hell they do with the lines these days - it seems to change every game


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2021)

if they insist on drawing the stupid lines at least make it boots only so that its clear, how hard is it


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## SaintHacker (Mar 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*I have no idea what the hell they do* with the lines these days - it seems to change every game
		
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Neither do they...


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Dosnt look like any one can give City a run for their money this year.
So I would say the worst .
But hardly surprising the amount of games they have played .

WBA a bit unlucky there,
Another toenail offside, they really need to sort that out and use the torso.
		
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At the moment it's like playing in the Championship. It's relentless, too many games with insufficient rest inbetween. Also not helped by no crowds to lift the players. No wonder some games and teams are flat. 

I thought the CF, Diagne, was an absolute handful. He could do a job at a quite a few lower and mid table teams. Brighton,  Crystal Palace would benefit for starters.


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## chrisd (Mar 4, 2021)

If you cant use your arm how can it be offside?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2021)

Why are we playing so high at the back ?
We have no pace in the CBS.
That was only a matter of time.

Our final ball just not good enough again


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			if they insist on drawing the stupid lines at least make it boots only so that its clear, how hard is it
		
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Using boots has some people saying a “toenail” shouldn’t count.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 4, 2021)

This has to be one of the worst title defences 

Just goes to show how injuries can wreck things .. city had so many centre backs out last year and struggled .. now they got more than enough 

Liverpool's turn now but jezz they look rubbish


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2021)

Why is that not handball ? Arm up raised in an unnatural position making himself bigger 🤷‍♂️


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## PieMan (Mar 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is that not handball ? Arm up raised in an unnatural position making himself bigger 🤷‍♂️
		
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Tough isn't it? Stop your whinging! 😉 😘


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## PieMan (Mar 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			This has to be one of the worst title defences

Just goes to show how injuries can wreck things .. city had so many centre backs out last year and struggled .. now they got more than enough

Liverpool's turn now but jezz they look rubbish
		
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It's better than Chelsea's the year Leicester won it! Our defence that year was appalling. Still, ruined it for Spurs so did have its plus points!!! 😂😂😂


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## SteveW86 (Mar 4, 2021)

The wife has just asked if they play the crowd noise for the players in the stadium so they feel more comfortable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Tough isn't it? Stop your whinging! 😉 😘
		
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Just seems the rules change through the season , the offsides and the handballs 

Before Xmas the goal would have stood and it would have been a penalty 🤷‍♂️

Cant understand why they put the line on his hand and why it’s not a penalty


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2021)

Poor old LLLLL iverpool, be missing out on Europe with us next season lol


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## hairball_89 (Mar 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just seems the rules change through the season , the offsides and the handballs

Before Xmas the goal would have stood and it would have been a penalty 🤷‍♂️

Cant understand why they put the line on his hand and why it’s not a penalty
		
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It's never offside for me. He's level. Brilliantly timed movement and the sort of striker play that we've completely lost from the game with VAR. 

Its not a pen. He's too close really. I'd absolutely have taken it. But if Chelsea had been given it id have been fuming. 

We're just not good enough. All the talk of the defence, it's the attackers who aren't doing the business. Once again showed absolutely nothing going forwards. It's dross. No tempo, no creativity.


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## PieMan (Mar 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just seems the rules change through the season , the offsides and the handballs

Before Xmas the goal would have stood and it would have been a penalty 🤷‍♂️

Cant understand why they put the line on his hand and why it’s not a penalty
		
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VAR is a joke Phil. Before VAR Werner would have been given the benefit of the doubt and the goal would've stood. 

And the Kante 'handball' would never have been given seeing how close he was to the ball and it would've been interpreted as ball to hand, irrespective of body position. 

Unfortunately the system is making a mockery of the game as it's played. Something needs to change drastically for next season.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			Poor old LLLLL iverpool, be missing out on Europe with us next season lol
		
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I called it some time ago re Liverpool and Europe. But I am looking at the top four and I honestly cannot call who will qualify apart from City. Chelsea looked energetic and revived under Tuchel. They have momentum. Utd and Leicester seem to have lost there way. What suprised me is that Utd, Leicester and Liverpool have looked a bit lethargic of late but Chelsea looked anything but lethargic.
I think qualification for the champs league could go to last game of the season.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2021)

Chelsea’s keeper never had a save to make .
We huffed and puffed but the only team that looked like scoring was them.

If that’s not a pen I don’t know what is “ jazz hands “ is not a natural position.
If his hands are not in the air then the ball goes past him into the box!
But Chelsea deserved the win , good defending and took the chance they had.
Which Mane didn’t, what a sitter!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2021)

Just had a look at Utds next five home games, City, West Ham, Leicester, Brighton, Spurs, Chuck in 2 games v AC Milan in the middle of that lot and Utd  have a brutal month ahead.


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## Slime (Mar 4, 2021)

As much as I'm not Klopp's biggest fan, I was very impressed with his interview.
No excuses, just an honest appraisal of how it went.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 4, 2021)

PieMan said:



			VAR is a joke Phil. Before VAR Werner would have been given the benefit of the doubt and the goal would've stood.

And the Kante 'handball' would never have been given seeing how close he was to the ball and it would've been interpreted as ball to hand, irrespective of body position.

Unfortunately the system is making a mockery of the game as it's played. Something needs to change drastically for next season.
		
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I agree something has to change Fulhams disallowed goal was a joke but going by the rules it was handball. 

I almost felt sorry for them as they deserved a draw.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 5, 2021)

Great finish from Mount.
The Unbearables have certainly become more bearable 😂😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			The wife has just asked if they play the crowd noise for the players in the stadium so they feel more comfortable.
		
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I had that discussion with my son at the beginning of this season. There are no theatres working, no concerts happening, speakers and audio equipment are unused and available.

My thoughts are that someone tried it and it just didn't work. The empty stadiums need physical bodies in them to help the sound bounce around and bouncing off steel, plastic and concrete alone just does not work. If they didn't even try it then that is criminal. 

I can't watch a game without the fake crowd noise, it must be soul destroying for the players.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I had that discussion with my son at the beginning of this season. There are no theatres working, no concerts happening, speakers and audio equipment are unused and available.

My thoughts are that someone tried it and it just didn't work. The empty stadiums need physical bodies in them to help the sound bounce around and bouncing off steel, plastic and concrete alone just does not work. If they didn't even try it then that is criminal.

I can't watch a game without the fake crowd noise, it must be soul destroying for the players.
		
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If it was that big a deal arsenal would be winning the league anyways .. no change


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## SteveW86 (Mar 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I had that discussion with my son at the beginning of this season. There are no theatres working, no concerts happening, speakers and audio equipment are unused and available.

My thoughts are that someone tried it and it just didn't work. The empty stadiums need physical bodies in them to help the sound bounce around and bouncing off steel, plastic and concrete alone just does not work. If they didn't even try it then that is criminal.

I can't watch a game without the fake crowd noise, it must be soul destroying for the players.
		
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Can just picture the sound guy there with a list of profanities to choose from. Maybe they should have something to give a player who dives some stick over the tannoy


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## hairball_89 (Mar 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I had that discussion with my son at the beginning of this season. There are no theatres working, no concerts happening, speakers and audio equipment are unused and available.

My thoughts are that someone tried it and it just didn't work. The empty stadiums need physical bodies in them to help the sound bounce around and bouncing off steel, plastic and concrete alone just does not work. If they didn't even try it then that is criminal.

I can't watch a game without the fake crowd noise, it must be soul destroying for the players.
		
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Autograph, a wonderful company who supply audio to a whole host of west end theatres and theatres across the country, did exactly this at QPR.

Here is an interview they did with FourFourTwo, should you wish to delve a little further!


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Autograph, a wonderful company who supply audio to a whole host of west end theatres and theatres across the country, did exactly this at QPR.

Here is an interview they did with FourFourTwo, should you wish to delve a little further!
		
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Thanks, that is interesting. I wonder why this has not been taken up by other teams? I am not aware of any PL side doing it.


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't watch a game without the fake crowd noise, it must be soul destroying for the players.
		
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I don't know why people say this, it makes no difference to me at all. If anything I prefer to have the fake crowd noise off, because I know it's fake, and it reacts a few seconds late and so on. It's just pointless really.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know why people say this, it makes no difference to me at all. If anything I prefer to have the fake crowd noise off, because I know it's fake, and it reacts a few seconds late and so on. It's just pointless really.
		
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Each to their own. Without noise it feels like pre season, a friendly, a kick about in the park. It's flat. Fair play if you can enjoy it without.


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Each to their own. Without noise it feels like pre season, a friendly, a kick about in the park. It's flat. Fair play if you can enjoy it without.
		
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Maybe I enjoy football from a more technical viewpoint. As in, I just enjoy seeing good attacking play, goals etc, all of which is unaffected by there being fans or not.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Maybe I enjoy football from a more technical viewpoint. As in, I just enjoy seeing good attacking play, goals etc, all of which is unaffected by there being fans or not.
		
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Or your used to watching games at work with the sound off so you don't get caught.. admit it we all friends here 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Maybe I enjoy football from a more technical viewpoint. As in, I just enjoy seeing good attacking play, goals etc, all of which is unaffected by there being fans or not.
		
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I fully appreciate that aspect but no noise is just soulless to me. Pro football needs more than that imo


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Each to their own. Without noise it feels like pre season, a friendly, a kick about in the park. It's flat. Fair play if you can enjoy it without.
		
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I agree that the absence of a crowd results in a lack of atmosphere but the injection of recorded crowd sounds is totally phony and just about sums up the PL and the clubs focusing on the televised product.

I think that fans aren't that gullible and would watch it with or without sanitised  fake sound effects.

You can't artificially create atmosphere.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I agree that the absence of a crowd results in a lack of atmosphere but the injection of recorded crowd sounds is totally phony and just about sums up the PL and the clubs focusing on the televised product.

I think that fans aren't that gullible and would watch it with or without sanitised  fake sound effects.
		
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I think it would be interesting to know the figures for those who choose to watch with fake noise and those who don't. I suspect the majority watch with noise pumped through.

Yes, we would still watch with no noise but it just reminds us all that times are wonky. I like to be tricked into normality, even if just for a short time.


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## nickjdavis (Mar 5, 2021)

Its not VAR that is wrong, it is the stupid rules covering situations that VAR mainly looks at.

Werner....not offside....how can anyone decide that the edge of the shirtsleeve defines a point of reference for where a player is on the pitch (not just this instance but countless others)....we will see teams next season line up in Aussie rules style tank tops. The problem with using miscellaneous body parts and then drawing a line downwards to intersect with the pitch brings considerable doubt as to how long the line needs to be before it touches the pitch...how do you figure out how long the line should be for someone's knee compared to someone's armpit? Offside should purely be based on where your feet are on the ground, the ground is the only true reference point and the feet are the only part of the body that in 99% of situations are in contact with the ground. If a striker has timed his run so his feet are onside but he is leaning towards goal whilst a defender is leaning away....great he is onside and should be applauded for the timing of his movement. If he has timed his run so that one foot is onside but the other is in the air as part of the stride and "offside"...deem him onside....lets reward finely tuned attacking play rather than disallow goals because the strikers big nose was offside.

If a striker is running towards goal and gets tripped on the edge of the penalty area, whether a penalty is given or not depends on where his feet are in relation to the penalty area is....not where his leaning torso is or where his pointing arm is....same principle should apply for offside.

The Fulham non goal....what an utter joke....the ball was blasted at him from a few yards, arm was tucked tightly against his body within the defined outline of his torso.

The Liverpool non penalty....should have been given, although the Chelsea player was pretty close to the ball his hand was in an un-natural position.....yes they've messed around with the rule so much no one really knows what is going on but it is ridiculous that attackers are penalised for accidental handballs whilst defenders similar actions go unpunished.

VAR playbacks should also be done in real time speed....if its not obvious when played back at real time speed then the onfield decision should stand. Lines(wo)men (i refuse to call them Referees Assistants because they generally do sod all to assist the referee and will often wait for a ref to indicate a decision before raising their flags) should be told to raise their flags for obvious offsides, rather than let play go on wasting time that could be valuable to one of the teams. Marginal calls....keep the flag down let play develop and go to VAR if necessary.

Basically the rules as they are currently written/interpreted have done nothing but suck the life out of attacking play and robbed football of whatever joy it once had.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think it would be interesting to know the figures for those who choose to watch with fake noise and those who don't. I suspect the majority watch with noise pumped through.

Yes, we would still watch with no noise but it just reminds us all that times are wonky. I like to be tricked into normality, even if just for a short time.
		
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Sorry to say it but you are either easily tricked or have just forgotten what a live crowd actually sounds like.

Perhaps it would not be so bad if it wasn't so obviously artificial.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Its not VAR that is wrong, it is the stupid rules covering situations that VAR mainly looks at.

Werner....not offside....how can anyone decide that the edge of the shirtsleeve defines a point of reference for where a player is on the pitch (not just this instance but countless others)....we will see teams next season line up in Aussie rules style tank tops. The problem with using miscellaneous body parts and then drawing a line downwards to intersect with the pitch brings considerable doubt as to how long the line needs to be before it touches the pitch...how do you figure out how long the line should be for someone's knee compared to someone's armpit? Offside should purely be based on where your feet are on the ground, the ground is the only true reference point and the feet are the only part of the body that in 99% of situations are in contact with the ground. If a striker has timed his run so his feet are onside but he is leaning towards goal whilst a defender is leaning away....great he is onside and should be applauded for the timing of his movement. If he has timed his run so that one foot is onside but the other is in the air as part of the stride and "offside"...deem him onside....lets reward finely tuned attacking play rather than disallow goals because the strikers big nose was offside.

If a striker is running towards goal and gets tripped on the edge of the penalty area, whether a penalty is given or not depends on where his feet are in relation to the penalty area is....not where his leaning torso is or where his pointing arm is....same principle should apply for offside.

The Fulham non goal....what an utter joke....the ball was blasted at him from a few yards, arm was tucked tightly against his body within the defined outline of his torso.

The Liverpool non penalty....should have been given, although the Chelsea player was pretty close to the ball his hand was in an un-natural position.....yes they've messed around with the rule so much no one really knows what is going on but it is ridiculous that attackers are penalised for accidental handballs whilst defenders similar actions go unpunished.

VAR playbacks should also be done in real time speed....if its not obvious when played back at real time speed then the onfield decision should stand. Lines(wo)men (i refuse to call them Referees Assistants because they generally do sod all to assist the referee and will often wait for a ref to indicate a decision before raising their flags) should be told to raise their flags for obvious offsides, rather than let play go on wasting time that could be valuable to one of the teams. Marginal calls....keep the flag down let play develop and go to VAR if necessary.

Basically the rules as they are currently written/interpreted have done nothing but suck the life out of attacking play and robbed football of whatever joy it once had.
		
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Far to much common sense here for it to be considered!!
Totally agree with the whole post.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Sorry to say it but you are either easily tricked or have just forgotten what a live crowd actually sounds like.

Perhaps it would not be so bad if it wasn't so obviously artificial.
		
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Best of a bad situation, like so many things right now.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Far to much common sense here for it to be considered!!
Totally agree with the whole post.
		
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You’ve changed you tune! Last night you moaned when the VAR decision was based on the foot of a player.

Post #6602


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You’ve changed you tune! Last night you moaned when the VAR decision was based on the foot of a player.

Post #6602
		
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That’s because his foot was offside. I said use the torso.
But some consistency is needed feet/ torso or head just use one reference point ,
At least then it’s a reference point.
If it was the same in every decision it could be tolerated but how can they give offside based on your arm.

If saying WBA were unlucky is moaning think your reading it wrong.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 5, 2021)

Is the problem that football's governing bodies are, in making the Laws, merely reflecting society and its descent into a litigious swamp.

Constantly being reminded that the game (remember when it was just that!) is "big business " these days, and "millions of pounds are at stake".

As a result the authorities take a "what if" attitude and get bogged down in hypotheses when drafting the latest Law changes. 

Certainly seems as if good old common sense left the building a while back.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s because his foot was offside. I said use the torso.
But some consistency is needed feet/ torso or head just use one reference point ,
At least then it’s a reference point.
If it was the same in every decision it could be tolerated but how can they give offside based on your arm.
		
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Read #6602, you said WBA were unlucky! No, he was either offside or onside, you “totally agree” with the post above and again want feet or torso or one reference point...


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Read #6602, you said WBA were unlucky! No, he was either offside or onside, you “totally agree” with the post above and again want feet or torso or one reference point...
		
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So you think saying they were unlucky is moaning ,really.

A players eyeline is telling him he is level with the defender.
If his toenail strays offside that is unlucky in my opinion.
one reference point what ever they pick will at least sort out the stupid ones like werners last night using the shirt sleeve.


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Or your used to watching games at work with the sound off so you don't get caught.. admit it we all friends here 😂
		
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I do have the sound down quite often to be fair - more depends on who the commentary team is!


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## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I do have the sound down quite often to be fair - more depends on who the commentary team is!
		
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All those dodgy streams in Spanish 😂


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## HowlingGale (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I do have the sound down quite often to be fair - more depends on who the commentary team is!
		
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I don't mind hearing all the swearing the players and managers do. Lack of atmosphere doesn't put me off a bit.
I also don't mind the "bababooey", "get in the hole" loonies at the golf.
I accept I might be odd though.


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

HowlingGale said:



*I don't mind hearing all the swearing the players and managers do.* Lack of atmosphere doesn't put me off a bit.
I also don't mind the "bababooey", "get in the hole" loonies at the golf.
I accept I might be odd though.
		
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That's a definite plus. Apparently you could hear Rashford calling Maguire an effing knobhead the other day! Comedy gold.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			So you think saying they were unlucky is moaning ,really.

A players eyeline is telling him he is level with the defender.
If his toenail strays offside that is unlucky in my opinion.
one reference point what ever they pick will at least sort out the stupid ones like werners last night using the shirt sleeve.
		
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Nick said 1 point, the feet, unfortunately the toenails are attached to feet, so either you are on or off side.

So either you “totally agree” with him or you don’t, you change what you think VAR should judge every match you watch!


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Nick said 1 point, the feet, unfortunately the toenails are attached to feet, so either you are on or off side.

So either you “totally agree” with him or you don’t, you change what you think VAR should judge every match you watch!
		
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It would be so much easier if they stop trying to draw lines on it, and start simply watching the footage and seeing if they think he's offside or not. The same as a linesman used to do, but with the benefit of a slow motion replay. That's all it had to be, and it genuinely makes me upset that they've done it so stupidly and ruined football and there's nothing I can do about it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It would be so much easier if they stop trying to draw lines on it, and start simply watching the footage and seeing if they think he's offside or not. The same as a linesman used to do, but with the benefit of a slow motion replay. That's all it had to be, and it genuinely makes me upset that they've done it so stupidly and ruined football and there's nothing I can do about it.
		
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I agree they’ve messed it up, but the Linesman and the VAR official both need to be clear on what they are looking at, is it just feet? Any part of the body you can score with? etc etc.

It’s wrong to expect the Linesman to be as accurate as the lines.


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## GB72 (Mar 5, 2021)

Personal opinion, and I will add again that I am not a massive football fan, is that any VAR action needs to start and finish with the ref. As with other sports, the ref makes a decision on field then it is only checked by VAR if the ref asks for it. If the evidence is marginal (a toe offside) then the on field decision remains and if it is obvious then it can be reversed. Take rugby, the question is all important. The ref asks if it is a try yes or no then the VAR needs to find evidence that it was scored, if the ref asks if there is any reason not to award the try then the try is given unless the VAR can find compelling evidence to the contrary. In either way the ref and the video assistant work together as a team and are miked up to talk it through whereas in what little I have seen of it in football, they seem to be working as 2 separate entities.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Personal opinion, and I will add again that I am not a massive football fan, is that any VAR action needs to start and finish with the ref. As with other sports, the ref makes a decision on field then it is only checked by VAR if the ref asks for it. If the evidence is marginal (a toe offside) then the on field decision remains and if it is obvious then it can be reversed. Take rugby, the question is all important. The ref asks if it is a try yes or no then the VAR needs to find evidence that it was scored, if the ref asks if there is any reason not to award the try then the try is given unless the VAR can find compelling evidence to the contrary. In either way the ref and the video assistant work together as a team and are miked up to talk it through whereas in what little I have seen of it in football, they seem to be working as 2 separate entities.
		
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But if in Rugby the VAR sees the ball is short of the try line by a toe, then they’ll say No Try, why should Football allow that tolerance?


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I agree they’ve messed it up, but the Linesman and the VAR official both need to be clear on what they are looking at, is it just feet? Any part of the body you can score with? etc etc.

It’s wrong to expect the Linesman to be as accurate as the lines.
		
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In my view once you forget about lines you can also forget about toe, shoulder, etc. It wasn't ever talked about before was it? The linesman just made a judgement call in the moment. That's how I would envision it working. Official watches the replay in slow motion and just makes a judgement call whether the forward is ahead of the defender, by looking at their body as a whole. Examples: if their toe is beyond but the bulk of their body is back and behind the defender (because he has his weight on the back foot) then potentially they would appear level and he'd be onside. Or their feet might be level, but the striker is leaning forward with more momentum so his head and shoulders are past the defender and then he will appear to be offside. If their bodies are about level but the forward's foot is in front then he might be given offside. It's just a judgement based on what you say. All the VAR does is give them the chance to look at it one more time, slowed down. Note, I'm purely talking about offsides here.


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Personal opinion, and I will add again that I am not a massive football fan, is that any VAR action needs to start and finish with the ref. As with other sports, the ref makes a decision on field then it is only checked by VAR if the ref asks for it. If the evidence is marginal (a toe offside) then the on field decision remains and if it is obvious then it can be reversed. Take rugby, the question is all important. The ref asks if it is a try yes or no then the VAR needs to find evidence that it was scored, if the ref asks if there is any reason not to award the try then the try is given unless the VAR can find compelling evidence to the contrary. In either way the ref and the video assistant work together as a team and are miked up to talk it through whereas in what little I have seen of it in football, they seem to be working as 2 separate entities.
		
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I agree. The VAR should be there to help the ref - he can view it at the side of the pitch if he needs a second look. For some reason it's ended up being that a guy in an office in Stockley Park is actually making the major decisions and the ref is just the spokesman. It's totally wrong.


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## GB72 (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			But if in Rugby the VAR sees the ball is short of the try line by a toe, then they’ll say No Try, why should Football allow that tolerance?
		
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On a decision like that, question of 'goal, yes or no' then the question is simply has it crossed the line or not, are there any infringements. 

Rugby does not draw lines on the pitch and I think that is another mistake in football. The game was never meant to be officiated to that level of precision and rulings should be made on what the eye can pick up alone.


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## GB72 (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I agree. The VAR should be there to help the ref - he can view it at the side of the pitch if he needs a second look. For some reason it's ended up being that a guy in an office in Stockley Park is actually making the major decisions and the ref is just the spokesman. It's totally wrong.
		
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No idea where the whole idea of having a VAR center came from. Seems mad to not even be in the ground and a massive waste.


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## nickjdavis (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			But if in Rugby the VAR sees the ball is short of the try line by a toe, then they’ll say No Try, why should Football allow that tolerance?
		
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Maybe in Rugby there are far more instances where the ball in play is obscured by the referees (or his assistants) viewpoint and the multiple TV angle coverage actually really does assist the officials. Very little in football is not directly observable by one of the three men in black.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			In my view once you forget about lines you can also forget about toe, shoulder, etc. It wasn't ever talked about before was it? The linesman just made a judgement call in the moment. That's how I would envision it working. Official watches the replay in slow motion and just makes a judgement call whether the forward is ahead of the defender, by looking at their body as a whole. Examples: if their toe is beyond but the bulk of their body is back and behind the defender (because he has his weight on the back foot) then potentially they would appear level and he'd be onside. Or their feet might be level, but the striker is leaning forward with more momentum so his head and shoulders are past the defender and then he will appear to be offside. If their bodies are about level but the forward's foot is in front then he might be given offside. It's just a judgement based on what you say. All the VAR does is give them the chance to look at it one more time, slowed down. Note, I'm purely talking about offsides here.
		
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I don’t have an issue with anything you’ve put, but you have to remember how we got in this mess and unfortunately it was because judgement calls weren’t accepted by managers, players or fans, especially when the media stepped in.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Maybe in Rugby there are far more instances where the ball in play is obscured by the referees (or his assistants) viewpoint and the multiple TV angle coverage actually really does assist the officials. Very little in football is not directly observable by one of the three men in black.
		
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Pros and cons of both, Football can be a lot faster at times and yes I’d hope that is correct with your last sentence, but VAR seems to prove it wrong.


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## Steve Wilkes (Mar 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Personal opinion, and I will add again that I am not a massive football fan, is that any VAR action needs to start and finish with the ref. As with other sports, the ref makes a decision on field then it is only checked by VAR if the ref asks for it. If the evidence is marginal (a toe offside) then the on field decision remains and if it is obvious then it can be reversed. Take rugby, the question is all important. The ref asks if it is a try yes or no then the VAR needs to find evidence that it was scored, if the ref asks if there is any reason not to award the try then the try is given unless the VAR can find compelling evidence to the contrary. In either way the ref and the video assistant work together as a team and are miked up to talk it through whereas in what little I have seen of it in football, they seem to be working as 2 separate entities.
		
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The major problem with the "Clear and Obvious" is what's clear and obvious to one set of people is not clear and obvious to the others, so if you are going to use it, you have to use it to the nth degree. The worms might be out the can by now, but I prefer the old way of the 3 officials making the decisions on what they see, The Championship has no VAR and I don't see arguments 5 times a game there, they just get on with it.


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## GB72 (Mar 5, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Maybe in Rugby there are far more instances where the ball in play is obscured by the referees (or his assistants) viewpoint and the multiple TV angle coverage actually really does assist the officials. Very little in football is not directly observable by one of the three men in black.
		
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I agree which I why I feel that the ref needs to ask a question of the video official if they are not sure and that is what triggers VAR involvement. Rather than VAR look at every goal, the goal is awarded unless the ref asks for something to be checked. VAR then becomes a tool rather than an imposition on the game.


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			No idea where the whole idea of having a VAR center came from. Seems mad to not even be in the ground and a massive waste.
		
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There are so many aspects to the application of VAR that make you seriously wonder what sort of idiots they had around the table discussing it. They totally jumped the shark and made it way overblown. It really could have been as simple as just installing those TVs at pitchside for the ref to go have a second look if he needed to. Just that minor change is all that was needed and I think would worked fine. The only extra member of staff you'd need is someone to run the replay footage on the TV for him.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Nick said 1 point, the feet, unfortunately the toenails are attached to feet, so either you are on or off side.

So either you “totally agree” with him or you don’t, you change what you think VAR should judge every match you watch!
		
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No it’s the rules that are changing.
Look at the handball rule absolute joke.

I read Nicks post and I have changed my opinion( that’s allowed isn’t it?) even on here!
What he says about the penalty rule makes perfect sense to me I have never thought about it that way.
At least it would be consistent one reference point.
It’s up to the player to stay onside then.

But the WBA player would still be offside ,I said he was unlucky.
How you take that as moaning only you can answer.
It’s a discussion nothing more.


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t have an issue with anything you’ve put, but you have to remember how we got in this mess and unfortunately it was because judgement calls weren’t accepted by managers, players or fans, especially when the media stepped in.

Click to expand...

Because they only had one look, in real time! Of course they were getting things wrong, and if they just had a second look at it, slowed down, they would definitely get more things correct than before. And none of these stupid protocols on what they can and can't change or review - just let the ref decide what he wants to review. He's meant to be in charge after all.


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## Imurg (Mar 5, 2021)

You've got a new handball rule to get used to from 1st July....
Good luck with that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			There are so many aspects to the application of VAR that make you seriously wonder what sort of idiots they had around the table discussing it. They totally jumped the shark and made it way overblown. It really could have been as simple as just installing those TVs at pitchside for the ref to go have a second look if he needed to. Just that minor change is all that was needed and I think would worked fine. The only extra member of staff you'd need is someone to run the replay footage on the TV for him.
		
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How is something that is missed by the Officials then picked up?

The reason they went for Stockley Pk was to avoid VAR Officials coming under pressure at grounds and putting it in a central, nuetral location.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			No it’s the rules that are changing.
Look at the handball rule absolute joke.

I read Nicks post and I have changed my opinion( that’s allowed isn’t it?) even on here!
What he says about the penalty rule makes perfect sense to me I have never thought about it that way.
At least it would be consistent one reference point.
It’s up to the player to stay onside then.

But the WBA player would still be offside ,I said he was unlucky.
How you take that as moaning only you can answer.
It’s a discussion nothing more.
		
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Or great defending by the opposition moving out as one or were they lucky?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Maybe in Rugby there are far more instances where the ball in play is obscured by the referees (or his assistants) viewpoint and the multiple TV angle coverage actually really does assist the officials. Very little in football is not directly observable by one of the three men in black.
		
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Unfortunately the last sentence was one of the main reasons VAR was introduced imo.
The standard excuse / reason was “ I didn’t have a clear view of the incident “


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How is something that is missed by the Officials then picked up?

The reason they went for Stockley Pk was to avoid VAR Officials coming under pressure at grounds and putting it in a central, nuetral location.
		
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I don't think there's anything that gets missed TOTALLY. Normally there will be players up in arms or what-have-you, so the ref can think "I'd better review this". Like if someone is lying down holding their face for example. I can't think of an example where all four match-day officials would miss it and all the players did as well so nobody asked him for the foul or decision.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Or great defending by the opposition moving out as one or were they lucky?
		
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That’s precision defending if they can get a toe offside.

Look I never said he wasn’t offside.
I said he was unlucky!
He’s looking down the precision of line the defence and his toe strayed offside.
But I think most Everton fans will say you were lucky his toe was offside and the correct decision was made under the current rules.
Just like Liverpool were lucky with the Werner offside imo of course.
No defence is that precise.


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## nickjdavis (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			They totally jumped the shark and made it way overblown...
		
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Shark jumping? Is this a new sport? If it is I want to see it!!!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think there's anything that gets missed TOTALLY. Normally there will be players up in arms or what-have-you, so the ref can think "I'd better review this". Like if someone is lying down holding their face for example. I can't think of an example where all four match-day officials would miss it and all the players did as well so nobody asked him for the foul or decision.
		
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The fourth official does not have any authority to intervene on what happens on the pitch, that would need a change.

Are you seriously saying you’d prefer to go back to the pre VAR days?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Shark jumping? Is this a new sport? If it is I want to see it!!!! 

Click to expand...

I might watch it.
But not a sport I would like to participate in.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s precision defending if they can get a toe offside.

Look I never said he wasn’t offside.
I said he was unlucky!
He’s looking down the precision of line the defence and his toe strayed offside.
But I think most Everton fans will say you were lucky his toe was offside and the correct decision was made under the current rules.
Just like Liverpool were lucky with the Werner offside imo of course.
No defence is that precise.
		
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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



View attachment 35421

Click to expand...

Ditto.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 5, 2021)

Why dont strikers or defenders get green turf coloured boots, or are they not allowed?

Now that would make the "lines" harder to decipher.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why dont strikers or defenders get green turf coloured boots, or are they not allowed?

Now that would make the "lines" harder to decipher.
		
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They would change the colour of the grass to suit VAR.
Must admit I have never seen a green pair of boots.
Seen green golf shoes they were hideous.


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## chrisd (Mar 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why dont strikers or defenders get green turf coloured boots, or are they not allowed?

Now that would make the "lines" harder to decipher.
		
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No chance that would work cos, as you know, the grass is always greener 😂


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56291850

well it’s a step in the right direction, but talk about change the rules half way through a season. I despair at the folk who run this game.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56291850

well it’s a step in the right direction, but talk about change the rules half way through a season. I despair at the folk who run this game.
		
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Implemented 01 July mate.👍🏻


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The fourth official does not have any authority to intervene on what happens on the pitch, that would need a change.

*Are you seriously saying you’d prefer to go back to the pre VAR days*?
		
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Where did you get that from? I'd prefer to do it the way I described earlier. With VAR, but without the stupid lines and rule changes and Stockley Park which is all ruining it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Where did you get that from? I'd prefer to do it the way I described earlier. With VAR, but without the stupid lines and rule changes and Stockley Park which is all ruining it.
		
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Because you need a set of dedicated eyes watching VAR and what’s going on on the pitch to bring these missed incidents to the Refs attention.

Already told you the 4th Official is currently not allowed to interfere with the action on the field, so by default you seem happy to accept if something happens on the field and none of the 3 Officials see it, we just ignore it, therefore as it was pre VAR.

VAR is far from perfect but they get more right than wrong.


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## 4LEX (Mar 5, 2021)

VAR really needs to be ditched. All it's doing is slowing the game down, taking the passion from it and still getting things wrong!

Even the most one eyed fan can forgive the ref a mistake during the game, what you can't forgive is having the game ruined by a system that still makes mistakes after dozens of replays. It adds another layer to the argument and makes everything more complex. It will lower the standard of refs as they're using it as a crutch. The standard of reffing this season has been shameful and the VAR control room even worse.

Theres been more VAR talk than the good old days of blaming the ref. You'll never have a perfect system unless you simplify the rules and let VAR ref the game 100% with the ref following their orders like a robot


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## Steve Wilkes (Mar 5, 2021)

4LEX said:



			VAR really needs to be ditched. All it's doing is slowing the game down, taking the passion from it and still getting things wrong!

Even the most one eyed fan can forgive the ref a mistake during the game, what you can't forgive is having the game ruined by a system that still makes mistakes after dozens of replays. It adds another layer to the argument and makes everything more complex. It will lower the standard of refs as they're using it as a crutch. The standard of reffing this season has been shameful and the VAR control room even worse.

Theres been more VAR talk than the good old days of blaming the ref. You'll never have a perfect system unless you simplify the rules and let VAR ref the game 100% with the ref following their orders like a robot 

Click to expand...

This post should be sent to the people in charge, no other solution or ideas can make VAR work. The idea of stop, starting a football match every 5 minutes, so every decision is looked at from all angles to see if we can change the on field decision is not what anyone wants


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Where did you get that from? I'd prefer to do it the way I described earlier. With VAR, but without the stupid lines and rule changes and Stockley Park which is all ruining it.
		
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Personally I would be very happy to scrap VAR altogether and revert back to relying solely upon the onfield officials.

VAR was supposed to ensure correct decisions but it would appear that there are still just as many disputes. 

The only difference is that it now takes longer and breaks up the flow of the game to reach those decisions.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2021)

I like the idea of VAR

So keep it

30 seconds max check.....any part of the body in line with the last defender means onside... I mean to score a goal the whole of the ball must cross all of the line so player should have to be wholly past the last defender


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Personally I would be very happy to scrap VAR altogether and revert back to relying solely upon the onfield officials.

VAR was supposed to ensure correct decisions but it would appear that there are still just as many disputes.

The only difference is that it now takes longer and breaks up the flow of the game to reach those decisions.
		
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I’d love to scrap it, but believe it’s here forever now.

I just hope they get it sorted sooner rather than later as the last 2 seasons have been an embarrassment.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’d love to scrap it, but believe it’s here forever now.

I just hope they get it sorted sooner rather than later as the last 2 seasons have been an embarrassment.
		
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Yes I am afraid the authorities aren't likely to back down now.

I wish I knew how its use can be improved.


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Yes I am afraid the authorities aren't likely to back down now.

*I wish I knew how its use can be improved*.
		
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2 things for me, needs to be simplified, and needs to be clear and transparent so that everyone knows what the ruling should be rather than having a clue what theyll decide as is the current case

offside, theyre going to insist on still drawing lines, if thats the case then they should only use the boots

handball, remove all accidental handball (make it hand to ball not ball to hand), benefit of the doubt to the defender for me

fouls, this is a bit harder but for me needs to be enough contact to cause a player to be impeded and/or go down (subjective to some degree i know), need to get away from any contact is a foul and ex players encouraging players to win a penalty. should also be a "diving panel" and any simulation and/or going down too easily leads to a 2 match ban, lets see how many of them want to dive 5 times a game then 


that or scrap it totally


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			2 things for me, needs to be simplified, and needs to be clear and transparent so that everyone knows what the ruling should be rather than having a clue what theyll decide as is the current case

offside, theyre going to insist on still drawing lines, if thats the case then they should only use the boots

handball, remove all accidental handball (make it hand to ball not ball to hand), benefit of the doubt to the defender for me

fouls, this is a bit harder but for me needs to be enough contact to cause a player to be impeded and/or go down (subjective to some degree i know), need to get away from any contact is a foul and ex players encouraging players to win a penalty. should also be a "diving panel" and any simulation and/or going down too easily leads to a 2 match ban, lets see how many of them want to dive 5 times a game then


that or scrap it totally 

Click to expand...

As decisions always have been  subject to interpretation and even with  VAR continue to be so I am afraid I remain in favour of scrapping it.

However, I don't see it happening any time soon. 

Offside lines are a  joke since the TV technology is not accurate enough to precisely indicate when the ball  is played.


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			As decisions always have been  subject to interpretation and even with  VAR continue to be so I am afraid I remain in favour of scrapping it.

However, I don't see it happening any time soon.

*Offside lines are a  joke since the TV technology is not accurate enough to precisely indicate when the ball  is played*.
		
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and wont be until there is a chip in every boot and ball, 1 frame can be 20cm yet they want to measure to the mm having "guessed" the frame. sadly thats not going away


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			and wont be until there is a chip in every boot and ball, 1 frame can be 20cm yet they want to measure to the mm having "guessed" the frame. sadly thats not going away
		
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There’s just so much that is wrong with the rules in football now it is embarrassing. As has been mentioned a player can be offside by an inch. An inch of his body that he cannot score with. But a penalty he has to be in the box, Not an inch inside the box. A corner for instance. As long as some of the ball is level with the line it can be just an inch it’s ok. how’s that right. Some of the officiating this year has been shocking. Some of the VAR decisions. Dear lord. City are running away with the league and am struggling to get excited. Every goal is an anti climax til VAR has had a look. We Have spent more time talking about officials and VAR this year than actual football.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 5, 2021)

People who dont go the match shouldn't have a say in VAR.


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## sawtooth (Mar 6, 2021)

VAR isn't the issue it's all the stupid , ambiguous, confusing rules that have shown up in the past few years.


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## paddyc (Mar 6, 2021)

Get in Auba that's a nice start.


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## USER1999 (Mar 6, 2021)

Again, it's an oddly rotated squad, but happy to score an early goal at the right end for once.


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2021)

was just about to post we'll regret not scoring a second.....

and another error for Xhaka that will be excused yet again, how much more do we have to put up with from him


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## pauljames87 (Mar 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			was just about to post we'll regret not scoring a second.....

and another error for Xhaka that will be excused yet again, how much more do we have to put up with from him
		
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Leno played his part. Why play it to him? So much danger 

Xhaka should have booted it away but still


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2021)

Oh, that was poor, funny, but poor.


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2021)

I agree completely


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## pendodave (Mar 6, 2021)

Pitch is like a park,  just the surface to be tippy-tapping it around 12 yards from goal with a hairy oik up your arris...
It's a systemic/planning mistake more than an individual error imho.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 6, 2021)




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## fundy (Mar 6, 2021)

clueless reffing yet again

rescind the pen and red lol


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2021)

flatter to deceive and shoot ourselves in the foot again

still not sure how we dont win at the death mind


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## USER1999 (Mar 6, 2021)

Pepe made interesting things happen. Willian, despite getting an assist, really brought nothing to the table, again. Please just abandoned the Willian experiment, and if necessary, just play Pepe.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 6, 2021)

The South American World Cup qualifiers due to be played in late March have all been cancelled.

Let’s hope other internationals are binned as well.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 6, 2021)

Who would of thought that with them coming into the season as champions


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2021)

Nobody talking about the Liverpool game?

Surprised that goal stood tbh.. I mean the way he made contacted with Salah was enough for him to go down eh?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2021)

Of all the millions of posts Homer has posted over the years, I really want to read his next post on this topic.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Nobody talking about the Liverpool game?

Surprised that goal stood tbh.. I mean the way he made contacted with Salah was enough for him to go down eh?
		
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wrong box 😉


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## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2021)

Years ago Wigan won the cup and got relegated. Most of their fans couldn’t careless about the relegation. They‘d had their premiership fairytale amd the cup was cherry On top of the cake.

A genuine question to the Liverpool fans. 

A lot is made of Klopp running players into the ground. Imo realistically with more rotation over the last 3 years, you could have possibly Still won the CL and would yet again be in the CL places, but probably at the expense of last seasons title.

if you go back to struggling to break into top 4 over the next few years. Was the title worth it? I’m pretty sure the answer to that would be yes form the fans, but what about the owners. Will they lose faith with klopp if you continue the free fall this season?


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## AmandaJR (Mar 7, 2021)

If I were a Liverpool fan I'd be so disappointed at their attitude - clearly given up and should be embarrassed.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Nobody talking about the Liverpool game?

Surprised that goal stood tbh.. I mean the way he made contacted with Salah was enough for him to go down eh?
		
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What’s he doing there in the first place?
When they have a corner he should be on the halfway line ,make them mark him he is useless on the edge of the box.
the lack of creativity from us in midfield shocking ,and it’s like Burtons window up front.
Fulham totally deserved to win they were very good.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			What’s he doing there in the first place?
When they have a corner he should be on the halfway line ,make them mark him he is useless on the edge of the box.
the lack of creativity from us in midfield shocking ,and it’s like Burtons window up front.
Fulham totally deserved to win they were very good.
		
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I was totally impressed with Fulham. Chasing down everything. Could have scored more. I hope the stay up


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## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			If I were a Liverpool fan I'd be so disappointed at their attitude - clearly given up and should be embarrassed.
		
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I called it a couple of months ago when Klopp was not backed in getting a decent centre half, that Liverpool may not qualify the for the champs league. It now looks like Europe could be a struggle. That said it may be a blessing playing nigh on 10 less games a season.
My concern is this. Klopp has said that not qualifying for champs league does not mean players will leave. But not qualifying for Europe is a different matter, esp when the papers are already mentioning players that will replace Salah. Another concern, All players values have gone down. So what Salah and others were worth last season is no where near this season. 
I thought that performance was shocking and if I was a Liverpool fan I would be disgusted And that’s putting it mildly. It looked like they did not want to play for Klopp and that for me is unforgivable.


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## SteveW86 (Mar 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Nobody talking about the Liverpool game?

Surprised that goal stood tbh.. I mean the way he made contacted with Salah was enough for him to go down eh?
		
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Wrong penalty box for him to go down


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Years ago Wigan won the cup and got relegated. Most of their fans couldn’t careless about the relegation. They‘d had their premiership fairytale amd the cup was cherry On top of the cake.

A genuine question to the Liverpool fans.

A lot is made of Klopp running players into the ground. Imo realistically with more rotation over the last 3 years, you could have possibly Still won the CL and would yet again be in the CL places, but probably at the expense of last seasons title.

if you go back to struggling to break into top 4 over the next few years. Was the title worth it? I’m pretty sure the answer to that would be yes form the fans, but what about the owners. Will they lose faith with klopp if you continue the free fall this season?
		
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I believe that the owners and most fans won’t make any judgments based on this season alone - there is a lot of context to it in regards the level of injuries being seen by the team over the past 6 months starting with that tackle on VVD

There was a graphic where if you add in all the games missed by Liverpool players it’s over 230 , the team below was Leicester with 120 I think it was

A lot of it comes back to the injuries and no team in the league would be able to cope with their spine being out for as long as they have

They got into a rut over xmas and it’s been hard to drag themselves out of it, nothing is going right at the moment but it’s certainly not time to throw the Bath water out

They will come again and will a full squad will challenge again for both the title and CL

I’m pretty confident we aren’t going to go back to “struggling to break top 4” - all players available the team is as strong as Citys

The media etc will overreact but I have no doubt the owners won’t react


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 7, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Years ago Wigan won the cup and got relegated. Most of their fans couldn’t careless about the relegation. They‘d had their premiership fairytale amd the cup was cherry On top of the cake.

A genuine question to the Liverpool fans.

A lot is made of Klopp running players into the ground. Imo realistically with more rotation over the last 3 years, you could have possibly Still won the CL and would yet again be in the CL places, but probably at the expense of last seasons title.

if you go back to struggling to break into top 4 over the next few years. Was the title worth it? I’m pretty sure the answer to that would be yes form the fans, but what about the owners. Will they lose faith with klopp if you continue the free fall this season?
		
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He dismantled the midfield to cover the injuries.
So 2/3 rds  of the team was average at best.
Strikers are off form so all below average lately.
He should have played the two CBS that played today from the start , instead he put two midfield players who are no better at CB than the lads who played today.
But we missed them in midfield massively.
Individual mistakes have hurt us as well.
You don’t get time to control the ball on the edge of the box like Salah did today ,just get rid 
But lack of quality is evident in the squad.
First 11 brilliant ,the rest so so.
Winning the title yes it was worth it, and sure we will be ok when all players are back fit.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe that the owners and most fans won’t make any judgments based on this season alone - there is a lot of context to it in regards the level of injuries being seen by the team over the past 6 months starting with that tackle on VVD

There was a graphic where if you add in all the games missed by Liverpool players it’s over 230 , the team below was Leicester with 120 I think it was

A lot of it comes back to the injuries and no team in the league would be able to cope with their spine being out for as long as they have

They got into a rut over xmas and it’s been hard to drag themselves out of it, nothing is going right at the moment but it’s certainly not time to throw the Bath water out

They will come again and will a full squad will challenge again for both the title and CL

I’m pretty confident we aren’t going to go back to “struggling to break top 4” - all players available the team is as strong as Citys

The media etc will overreact but I have no doubt the owners won’t react
		
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I agree there has been over reactions, and that the injuries sustained have played a big part. I do think it’s become a crux though. 

6 homes games in A row isn’t it? imo something needs to be said in the dressing room. almost like they’ve accepted the season is over. 

Imo Europa next season is a nightmare. The first 11 is still right up there, but the squad is weak and Thursday Sunday will stretch it further imo.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2021)

One thing I forgot to mention was re VVD, let’s hope he returns being the player he was. He suffered a massive injury and a lot of players do not return being the players they once were. An 80% VVD is miles better than what they have at the moment.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree there has been over reactions, and that the injuries sustained have played a big part. I do think it’s become a crux though.

6 homes games in A row isn’t it? imo something needs to be said in the dressing room. almost like they’ve accepted the season is over.

Imo Europa next season is a nightmare. The first 11 is still right up there, but the squad is weak and Thursday Sunday will stretch it further imo.
		
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There were will be things being said but right now the ball just isn’t bouncing right and there maybe needs that little bit of fortune , a scrappy goal , lucky bounce here but right now it’s just not going that way - confidence is very low right now and it’s going to be a stumble until the end of the season 

The squad isn’t as weak as people suggest - we haven’t played the first choice back 4 for 6 months , first choice midfield and the front three have lost their fluidity when Jota was injured 

Even with all those injuries we are still in with a chance of top 4 and I would suspect any other club who loses the same level of players would be bottom half


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			One thing I forgot to mention was re VVD, let’s hope he returns being the player he was. He suffered a massive injury and a lot of players do not return being the players they once were. An 80% VVD is miles better than what they have at the moment.
		
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We had it with lanzini, playing well, called up for his country, Messi rated him highly 

Horrible injury 

Can't even get a full game anymore


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## Slime (Mar 7, 2021)




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## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There were will be things being said but right now the ball just isn’t bouncing right and there maybe needs that little bit of fortune , a scrappy goal , lucky bounce here but right now it’s just not going that way - confidence is very low right now and it’s going to be a stumble until the end of the season

The squad isn’t as weak as people suggest - we haven’t played the first choice back 4 for 6 months , first choice midfield and the front three have lost their fluidity when Jota was injured

Even with all those injuries we are still in with a chance of top 4 and I would suspect any other club who loses the same level of players would be bottom half
		
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I'm not convinced on your depth. 

I rate Gomez and Matip. But nether can hold the team together without VvD who would obviously improve Any team, but others may have two others who cope better. 

Imo, the bisggest (only) mistake this season has been the using both midfield at the back. 

They lost the midfield battle in games and the rot set in. 

Your starting 11-14 is immense. But imo you always need to pick 4 from 5 in attack as the drop off from there is too steep.

I do think you'll have Klopp at start of season irrespective of how this season plays out, but do think if you start next season slowly. Changes could happen.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 7, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not convinced on your depth.

I rate Gomez and Matip. But nether can hold the team together without VvD who would obviously improve Any team, but others may have two others who cope better.

Imo, the bisggest (only) mistake this season has been the using both midfield at the back.

They lost the midfield battle in games and the rot set in.

Your starting 11-14 is immense. But imo you always need to pick 4 from 5 in attack as the drop off from there is too steep.

I do think you'll have Klopp at start of season irrespective of how this season plays out, but do think if you start next season slowly. Changes could happen.
		
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I think you might be correct about depth, but not in every aspect, after van dyke was injured they went on a 11 or 12 game unbeaten run and were 4 points clear at the top at christmas.

They could obviously cope with 1 or 2 injuries, but losing all the centre backs has been massive.


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## paddyc (Mar 7, 2021)

Breaking news! Man U have scored a goal! They didnt create it, one of their usual dodgy penalties.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 7, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1368596735044554752😂😂😂😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 7, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Breaking news! Man U have scored a goal! They didnt create it, one of their usual dodgy penalties.
		
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Nothing dodgy about that.
Just another striker in his own box getting in the way of the defenders and giving a stupid foul away.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 7, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I called it a couple of months ago when Klopp was not backed in getting a decent centre half, that Liverpool may not qualify the for the champs league. It now looks like Europe could be a struggle. That said it may be a blessing playing nigh on 10 less games a season.
My concern is this. Klopp has said that not qualifying for champs league does not mean players will leave. But not qualifying for Europe is a different matter, esp when the papers are already mentioning players that will replace Salah. Another concern, All players values have gone down. So what Salah and others were worth last season is no where near this season.
I thought that performance was shocking and if I was a Liverpool fan I would be disgusted And that’s putting it mildly. It looked like they did not want to play for Klopp and that for me is unforgivable.
		
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Did you think the same with pep 10 games in this season?

Thought not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not convinced on your depth.

I rate Gomez and Matip. But nether can hold the team together without VvD who would obviously improve Any team, but others may have two others who cope better.

Imo, the bisggest (only) mistake this season has been the using both midfield at the back.

They lost the midfield battle in games and the rot set in.

Your starting 11-14 is immense. But imo you always need to pick 4 from 5 in attack as the drop off from there is too steep.

I do think you'll have Klopp at start of season irrespective of how this season plays out, but do think if you start next season slowly. Changes could happen.
		
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The only team that’s going to have really strong level of depth is City 

When we lost VVD we still had Gomez and Matip who are both top CB’s but we lost Gomez not long after and even then we did well until Xmas time - it was losing both Jota and Keita who both were getting into a stride and allowed the front three to be rotated and also some drive from the midfield and then Matip was injured as well then Fabinho the fourth choice went down as well - that 4 CB’s out , meaning either 5th or 6th choice CB’s having to play our Centre Mids. Today was I beleive our 19th different CB pair. We then then just seem to slow everything down which doesn’t suit the full backs or the front three and a lot of that comes from missing both Henderson and Fabinho from the middle of the park .

I think the squad is good enough but unless a team can spend millions it’s going to be hard to cover from losing so many injuries and right now it’s hard to get out of the rut 

Jota coming back is key , time for Klopp to trust two cbs and let Fabinho into the middle of the park


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## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2021)

Thought I would have a tiddle before it started and Utd get a penalty 😁

That aside it seems a proper derby, City making far to many wrong final passes. I can see City scoring but I can see Utd having chances as well.


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## Slime (Mar 7, 2021)

Luke Shaw scores a goal!


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 7, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Years ago Wigan won the cup and got relegated. Most of their fans couldn’t careless about the relegation. They‘d had their premiership fairytale amd the cup was cherry On top of the cake.

A genuine question to the Liverpool fans.

A lot is made of Klopp running players into the ground. Imo realistically with more rotation over the last 3 years, you could have possibly Still won the CL and would yet again be in the CL places, but probably at the expense of last seasons title.

if you go back to struggling to break into top 4 over the next few years. Was the title worth it? I’m pretty sure the answer to that would be yes form the fans, but what about the owners. Will they lose faith with klopp if you continue the free fall this season?
		
Click to expand...

Its not worth worrying about qualifying or not qualifying for Europe over the next few years, until or if ever it happens.

We had to get the 30 year monkey of our back, that was imperative.

A 6th European cup under Jurgen, cements our "European royalty" even more. Ask City / Arsenal/ Spurs fans what they wouldn't give for even one of them.

Jurgen still has a lot of credit in the bank for what he's done, but all patience has an end.

Lets judge him again when the crowds are back / injured CB's are back / 2-3 new signings (not 5) unless he sells a few / VAR starts getting applied fairly and consistently (if ever) / a bit of luck / investment / players are back to form / players are back to a normal season with a normal pre-season.

But that is only part of the story, where we havent helped ourselves is the following. We should have bought a team ready CB once we sold Lovren, Matip's injury record is poor and relying on Fabinho as 4th choice CB shouldnt have been thought of. Investment - Since 2015 I think only 3 premiership teams have spent less, nett. The recruitment has been immense, but with the money saved we should be able to afford a Koulibaly or even buy a Haaland, Sancho, Werner. Okay they have invested off the pitch, but we shouldn't be getting outspent on the pitch by Everton, Wolves, Spurs, and many mid-table teams. Playing 4-3-3- week in week out over the last 2-3 months, we need to change the dynamic. With hindsight, we should have thought, sod it, play any two CB's and strengthen the midfield.

A good bit is outside our control, a decent amount isnt. Its now well more than a blip, but real fans will still back Jurgen next year. We hope the owners do, as well.

In a parallel universe, would you give Moyes a 5 year contract, just based on a good year, similar to one that Pardew had at Newcastle years ago, which earned him a 7 year contract?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2021)

A poor performance and the best team won. I thought Pep got it wrong not playing Walker. utds pace was always a problem for City.


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## Slime (Mar 7, 2021)

Where has this United been for the last few weeks?
Great result, great performance.
Pogba who?
Shaw, a shoe-in for the next England squad?


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## AmandaJR (Mar 7, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			A poor performance and the best team won. I thought Pep got it wrong not playing Walker. utds pace was always a problem for City.
		
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After 10 minutes and a goal conceded and Kevin giving the ball away at least 5 times I knew the day wasn't going to end well!


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## Junior (Mar 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Where has this United been for the last few weeks?
Great result, great performance.
Pogba who?
Shaw, a shoe-in for the next England squad?
		
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I agree, but, as much as I wanted him nowhere near the club,  we do miss the post Xmas Pogba.   He was immense for those 6 weeks and showed what he is capable of.  He still has a lot of questions against his name though.  Why was it that as soon as his scumbag agent comes out saying he wants to leave, does he start start look like a Rolls Royce of a player ????  

Fred gives the ball away too much.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			After 10 minutes and a goal conceded and Kevin giving the ball away at least 5 times I knew the day wasn't going to end well!
		
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What I couldn’t understand was not playing Walker from the start. He has pace to counter pace. Cancelo again dropping into midfield when he does not have to. Why he never tracked back for the second I will never know.
Re Utd, that’s the Utd playing at there best, they have been far to conservative on to many occasions this season.


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## funkycoldmedina (Mar 7, 2021)

How many home defeats in a row Jurgen?


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## 4LEX (Mar 7, 2021)

Utd are a horrible and scabby side but they were brilliant for the majority of the game today. Shaw and Rashford especially.

No idea what Pep was doing playing a similiar side and tactics that proved a failure last season and earlier this season. Foden injected more speed and quality in 20 minutes than anyone else bar KDB managed in the entire game. Sterling and Jesus were embarrassing today, only matched by Martial for a horror show in finishing. Obviously going to walk the league still but poses questions about City in the CL....

It'll be great to see this City side with Haaland upfront.


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## 4LEX (Mar 7, 2021)

Junior said:



			I agree, but, as much as I wanted him nowhere near the club,  we do miss the post Xmas Pogba.   He was immense for those 6 weeks and showed what he is capable of.  He still has a lot of questions against his name though.  Why was it that as soon as his scumbag agent comes out saying he wants to leave, does he start start look like a Rolls Royce of a player ???? 

Fred gives the ball away too much.
		
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Pogba isn't the answer, he's been part of the problem.

Utd need to sell De Gea, Pogba and Martial and use the money to sign a proper DM, RW and striker. That won't happen as Woodward won't take a loss on his star players and their insane wages will put off everyone, bar PSG. Pogba will get a huge new deal so both sides can save face and then down tools. I'm afraid you're stuck with Ole and the freak show for the next year or two before Poch comes in after getting bored of winning everything at PSG. 

Although knowing Woodward he'll bin Ole halfway through next season and hire someone like Allegri, another dinosaur. At least you've got great growth on TikTok and have a decent woman's side though......


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## Slime (Mar 7, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Utd are a horrible and scabby side but they were brilliant for the majority of the game today. Shaw and Rashford especially.

No idea what Pep was doing playing a similiar side and tactics that proved a failure last season and earlier this season. Foden injected more speed and quality in 20 minutes than anyone else bar KDB managed in the entire game. Sterling and Jesus were embarrassing today, only matched by Martial for a horror show in finishing. Obviously going to walk the league still but poses questions about City in the CL....

It'll be great to see this City side with Haaland upfront.
		
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4LEX said:



			Pogba isn't the answer, he's been part of the problem.

Utd need to sell De Gea, Pogba and Martial and use the money to sign a proper DM, RW and striker. That won't happen as Woodward won't take a loss on his star players and their insane wages will put off everyone, bar PSG. Pogba will get a huge new deal so both sides can save face and then down tools. I'm afraid you're stuck with Ole and the freak show for the next year or two before Poch comes in after getting bored of winning everything at PSG.

Although knowing Woodward he'll bin Ole halfway through next season and hire someone like Allegri, another dinosaur. At least you've got great growth on TikTok and have a decent woman's side though......

Click to expand...

Wrong thread?


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## Orikoru (Mar 7, 2021)

Bale is absolutely banging the goals. I must say, I wasn't sure we'd ever quite see it for him. Saw him maybe being a decent impact sub, but he's right up there as one of our best players at the moment!


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## IainP (Mar 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Bale is absolutely banging the goals. I must say, I wasn't sure we'd ever quite see it for him. Saw him maybe being a decent impact sub, but he's right up there as one of our best players at the moment!
		
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Make the most of it until the 29th 😁😂


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## Slime (Mar 7, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			After 10 minutes and a goal conceded and Kevin giving the ball away at least 5 times I knew the day wasn't going to end well!
		
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Oh, but it did end well, very well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 8, 2021)

It always annoys non football fans to put football related posts on Random Irritations so I'll keep this here. Not feeling great today, came home looking forward to watching the Everton v Chelsea game. Put the tv on and find out it's on BT, I don't have BT 😠. 

I know, I might be grateful later on but you have to start with hope 😄.

If Chelsea would like to shake hands and take a point I would be happy with that. I can see us being leggy tonight, too many games recently, not enough squad depth.


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## Orikoru (Mar 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It always annoys non football fans to put football related posts on Random Irritations so I'll keep this here. Not feeling great today, came home looking forward to watching the Everton v Chelsea game. Put the tv on and find out it's on BT, I don't have BT 😠.

I know, I might be grateful later on but you have to start with hope 😄.

If *Chelsea would like to shake hands and take a point I would be happy with that*. I can see us being leggy tonight, too many games recently, not enough squad depth.
		
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As a Spurs fan I'd be very happy with a point a piece as well please. 😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2021)

Well beaten by a better team, good example of what a strong squad will do for a Club.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Well beaten by a better team, good example of what a strong squad will do for a Club.
		
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9 points out of the last 12. A good few days off until the next game which I suspect is well needed. 

You are right, our squad just isn't deep enough to give players a rest, keep people fresh. At this point in the season it gets shown up.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2021)

Do hate when players claim they got the ball 

Replay for pen shows zero ball all man lol


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## pendodave (Mar 8, 2021)

That was a half of two halves...


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2021)

pendodave said:



			That was a half of two halves...
		
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Leeds look awful when the ball is legally In play lol


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## pendodave (Mar 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Leeds look awful when the ball is legally In play lol
		
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 They've started well again this half. 
Considering how many great goals they score, they are surprisingly $#!& in front of goal.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2021)

pendodave said:



			They've started well again this half.
Considering how many great goals they score, they are surprisingly $#!& in front of goal.
		
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Easy in the end 

We should have had 4 .. fornals unlucky 

5 points above Liverpool with a game in hand...mental


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## Paperboy (Mar 9, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Easy in the end

We should have had 4 .. fornals unlucky

5 points above Liverpool with a game in hand...mental
		
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Good news Mark Noble has signed a contract extension


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2021)

Paperboy said:



			Good news Mark Noble has signed a contract extension 

Click to expand...

Meh, pure sentiment.. offers nothing to the team anymore and needs replacing


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## pauljames87 (Mar 10, 2021)

Apparently just 2 more appearances for west ham and we have to buy Dawson for 2.2 million

What a bargain 

Has been solid. Enabled us to go 4 at back 

Scored 3 goals (joint highest for centre backs it seems) in only 14 games


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## Orikoru (Mar 10, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Apparently just *2 more appearances for west ham and we have to buy Dawson for 2.2 million*

What a bargain

Has been solid. Enabled us to go 4 at back

Scored 3 goals (joint highest for centre backs it seems) in only 14 games
		
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And we never saw him again....


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## pauljames87 (Mar 10, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			And we never saw him again....
		
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Lol be better to sign then sell him for profit


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2021)

Obviously am biased but how the heck that was not a penalty on Foden al never know. Yet we keep being told VAR is not the problem. That’s gone to VAR and turned down. Like I keep saying it’s taking enjoyment out of the game. Do we give credit to Foden for not “ diving” after a foul. Looking at that, VAR is encouraging diving and screamin.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 10, 2021)

As a Saints fan I'm surprised it wasn't given either. Overall I don't think City deserve to be 2 goals up at half time though.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2021)

drive4show said:



			As a Saints fan I'm surprised it wasn't given either. Overall I don't think City deserve to be 2 goals up at half time though.
		
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I thought that first half was shockingly slow from City, Ave a feeling pep thinks the same coz they have stepped it up the second half..now they have a 3 goal lead it will probably drop off again.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 10, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I thought that first half was shockingly slow from City, Ave a feeling pep thinks the same coz they have stepped it up the second half..now they have a 3 goal lead it will probably drop off again.
		
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I fear another Manchester mauling for saints 😪


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## SaintHacker (Mar 10, 2021)

A game we were never going to win even with a full strength side, so a good call from the manager to rotate it a bit and protect some of the regulars for upcoming games. City are absolutely clinical but fair play to Saints,  they turned up and made a bloody good game if it, and earned somw big praise from Pep at the end


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			A game we were never going to win even with a full strength side, so a good call from the manager to rotate it a bit and protect some of the regulars for upcoming games. City are absolutely clinical but fair play to Saints,  they turned up and made a bloody good game if it, and earned somw big praise from Pep at the end
		
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I was watching some of the Saints movement how they managed to get behind City from open play and Ave not seen a lot of that this season from opposing teams. I thought both defences were sloppy. That aside a good game for the neutral to watch.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 10, 2021)

Hey davey mac, what time's "midweek sports night special" on, Bro?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56337829

Jurgen Klopp saying Fabinho is one of the best midfielders in the world. Am not gonna argue with that, but does it not just endorse why the heck did he persist in playing him at centre half.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56337829

Jurgen Klopp saying Fabinho is one of the best midfielders in the world. Am not gonna argue with that, but does it not just endorse why the heck did he persist in playing him at centre half.
		
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Think this season has shown they would be better off just shoving anyone at CB long term to keep fabinho in midfield


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56337829

Jurgen Klopp saying Fabinho is one of the best midfielders in the world. Am not gonna argue with that, but does it not just endorse why the heck did he persist in playing him at centre half.
		
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Because he is also superb as a CB and was the 4th choice cover - so when we lost 3 CB’s he moved into the back line because we have cover at the centre of the park with multiple expirenced CM’s and very little at CB


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because he is also superb as a CB and was the 4th choice cover - so when we lost 3 CB’s he moved into the back line because we have cover at the centre of the park with multiple expirenced CM’s and very little at CB
		
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Definitely not "superb" as a CB.

Decent enough to fill in during  a game in the event of an injury but should never be a long term answer. 

Leaves the midfield short and this was accentuated when Henderson was also having to play there.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 11, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Definitely not "superb" as a CB.

Decent enough to fill in during  a game in the event of an injury but should never be a long term answer.

Leaves the midfield short and this was accentuated when Henderson was also having to play there.
		
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Talking like he is mascherano 🤣 he's alright at CB. Like you said.. but he is so good in the middle Liverpool should be having a proper 4th choice Cb rather than resort to playing their best midfielder there


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because he is also superb as a CB and was the 4th choice cover - so when we lost 3 CB’s he moved into the back line because we have cover at the centre of the park with multiple expirenced CM’s and very little at CB
		
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He’s an average CB at best.
He did a job , but we had CBS sitting on the bench.
The midfield was weakened and this caused us problems imo.


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## DanFST (Mar 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because he is also superb as a CB
		
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14 goals conceded in a 6 game losing streak. If that's a superb CB, Craig Dawson is basically Alessandro Nesta. (Spoiler he isn't, he's just decent)


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 11, 2021)

DanFST said:



			14 goals conceded in a 6 game losing streak. If that's a superb CB, Craig Dawson is basically Alessandro Nesta. (Spoiler he isn't, he's just decent)
		
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And Fabinho had been injured for most of them - he was mainly the starting CB from October through to Xmas when he got injured and during that time the record was vastly different


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## Orikoru (Mar 11, 2021)

Fabinho was a right back before he was a holding midfielder, so he's used to playing in defence, but you wouldn't say centre back is his best position. He's a reasonable deputy there. As discussed the bigger issue was what he left in midfield. You took out the lynchpin/rock in Fabinho, then took out the runner/legs and vocal organiser of Henderson, and replaced them with a creative flair player in Thiago. That was never going to work. Lost the midfield presence completely. I don't think Fab and Hendo ever did a really terrible job as centre backs in isolation. They just needed to be the midfield.


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## USER1999 (Mar 11, 2021)

Elneny?


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## USER1999 (Mar 11, 2021)

So, those well known goal scorers Odegard, Gabriel, and Elneny got a good result. Anyone who bet on those three would have made a bundle, and are probably in a secure facility somewhere.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2021)

Sad news that Chris Wilder is leaving his job. They were tremendous last year but the failure to find a goalscorer has cost them. They punched well above their weight and I can't see him being out of work for long.


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## Orikoru (Mar 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sad news that Chris Wilder is leaving his job. They were tremendous last year but the failure to find a goalscorer has cost them. They punched well above their weight and I can't see him being out of work for long.
		
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It's a fine line for clubs like them. Spent a decent sum on Brewster but it's not worked out. Imagine if they'd have got say, Ollie Watkins or someone instead who hit the ground running, could have been a totally different season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's a fine line for clubs like them. Spent a decent sum on Brewster but it's not worked out. Imagine if they'd have got say, Ollie Watkins or someone instead who hit the ground running, could have been a totally different season.
		
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Very much so. That one player is usually the difference between relegation, survival or a comfortable season.


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## Beezerk (Mar 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sad news that Chris Wilder is leaving his job. They were tremendous last year but the failure to find a goalscorer has cost them. They punched well above their weight and I can't see him being out of work for long.
		
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Utd fans I've spoken to have blamed the recruitment policy last summer, they've essentially signed championship quality players and hoped they would make the grade in the PL.


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## SteveW86 (Mar 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Very much so. That one player is usually the difference between relegation, survival or a comfortable season.
		
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Dont forget they had a keeper in great form last year too. Last year they scored and conceded 39 goals each. They actually had the 4th best defence last year, which was huge for them with their lowish goals tally.

This year, if you take their goals/game ratio they will score 21 goals, but concede 61 so they are significantly worse in both areas.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's a fine line for clubs like them. Spent a decent sum on Brewster but it's not worked out. Imagine if they'd have got say, Ollie Watkins or someone instead who hit the ground running, could have been a totally different season.
		
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I have been impressed with Watkins he looks a great player.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Dont forget they had a keeper in great form last year too. Last year they scored and conceded 39 goals each. They actually had the 4th best defence last year, which was huge for them with their lowish goals tally.

This year, if you take their goals/game ratio they will score 21 goals, but concede 61 so they are significantly worse in both areas.
		
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It must irritate them even more that Henderson has been getting splinters in his backside at Utd. Nobody has benefited from him going back, apart from his replacement I guess.


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## Orikoru (Mar 12, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Dont forget they had a keeper in great form last year too. Last year they scored and conceded 39 goals each. They actually had the 4th best defence last year, which was huge for them with their lowish goals tally.

This year, if you take their goals/game ratio they will score 21 goals, but concede 61 so they are significantly worse in both areas.
		
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Yeah Dean Henderson made a big difference. Ramsdale is rubbish by comparison. He doesn't make many saves.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I have been impressed with Watkins he looks a great player.
		
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He's even better when he actually gets service! We're struggling to get the ball to him the last couple of games annoyingly!


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## Orikoru (Mar 12, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			He's even better when he actually gets service! We're struggling to get the ball to him the last couple of games annoyingly!
		
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Presumably because Grealish hasn't been playing?


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## Bdill93 (Mar 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Presumably because Grealish hasn't been playing?
		
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No JG, Barkleys been off the boil, wingers arent all that.... A few reasons

I wont complain any more - were safe, in a good position and have make brilliant progress. Only 2 years ago I was going to Milwall away... context is key!


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## pauljames87 (Mar 12, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			No JG, Barkleys been off the boil, wingers arent all that.... A few reasons

I wont complain any more - were safe, in a good position and have make brilliant progress. Only 2 years ago I was going to Milwall away... context is key!
		
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Villa in real danger of becoming a one man team with regards to grealish

Need to learn to win without him, hopefully tonight


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## 4LEX (Mar 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's a fine line for clubs like them. Spent a decent sum on Brewster but it's not worked out. Imagine if they'd have got say, Ollie Watkins or someone instead who hit the ground running, could have been a totally different season.
		
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Apparently Wilder insisted on Brewster over Watkins. Bizarre as Brewster is another Solanke. A shame as Wilder would bring Sheff Utd back up but ego obviously got in the way for both parties!  Can't say they'll be missed though - appalling side.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2021)

How’s that not a pen for Burnley.
Stunning goal though.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2021)

After another hugely frustrating game last night I looked at the table and thought about how many other supporters of clubs felt the same. Who this year will be happy with their team?

I reckon City and West Hams fans only can feel truly satisfied. 

Utd are 2nd but have been awful at times. Leicester 3rd but have lost a number of times against weak opposition. Chelsea are 4th but have sacked a manager. That doesn't happen if all is well.

Villa fans perhaps have a shout but they also have lost daft games.

Any suggestions for who should be genuinely happy with their season and why, apart from those two mentioned? It's the inconsistency this year that is driving me nuts.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			After another hugely frustrating game last night I looked at the table and thought about how many other supporters of clubs felt the same. Who this year will be happy with their team?

I reckon City and West Hams fans only can feel truly satisfied.

Utd are 2nd but have been awful at times. Leicester 3rd but have lost a number of times against weak opposition. Chelsea are 4th but have sacked a manager. That doesn't happen if all is well.

Villa fans perhaps have a shout but they also have lost daft games.

Any suggestions for who should be genuinely happy with their season and why, apart from those two mentioned? It's the inconsistency this year that is driving me nuts.
		
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I can think of 19 clubs that are very happy with Liverpools performances this season 

Infact 71 plus the non leagues 🤣


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## Tashyboy (Mar 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			After another hugely frustrating game last night I looked at the table and thought about how many other supporters of clubs felt the same. Who this year will be happy with their team?

I reckon City and West Hams fans only can feel truly satisfied.

Utd are 2nd but have been awful at times. Leicester 3rd but have lost a number of times against weak opposition. Chelsea are 4th but have sacked a manager. That doesn't happen if all is well.

Villa fans perhaps have a shout but they also have lost daft games.

Any suggestions for who should be genuinely happy with their season and why, apart from those two mentioned? It's the inconsistency this year that is driving me nuts.
		
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Its odd you should mention this, once more I think it has been a good season, with the exception of one team that has bucked the trend. I said the same when Liverpool deservedly did the same. For me there was nothing worse than knowing the result before the game even kicked off, the only thing you didn’t know was the score. 
Look at Chelsea v Leeds The other night, Chelsea have been on a right run, yet a draw v Leeds would be seen as a set back.
A Couple of years ago when City ran away with the league I watched some teams come to the etihad the following season and they were really well organised. They had a very good set up and City struggled to break them down. teams like Leicester and Palace did a job on City. Fans might not be happy with there teams performances but as neutrals they would be delighted with how others teams results have gone. 
Me I have enjoyed the season as a neutral.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2021)

@Tashyboy , I'm not saying it's a bad season. For the neutral it must be great. Just as a fan of a team, who can be happy this year?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Tashyboy , I'm not saying it's a bad season. For the neutral it must be great. Just as a fan of a team, who can be happy this year?
		
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I would say that the deffos on the forum are Tash and Amanda, after that it could be a bit thin on the ground 😣


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## funkycoldmedina (Mar 14, 2021)

I think Leeds fans would be pretty happy with their season but I take your point pretty much everyone else has underperformed


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Tashyboy , I'm not saying it's a bad season. *For the neutral it must be great.* Just as a fan of a team, who can be happy this year?
		
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Not sure I agree with this. Up until Xmas it was a good season for the neutral but since then City have gone on their winning run and everyone else has dropped away. If you took City out of the equation then it would be a brilliant season for the neutral with a decent and close title race. As long as Man U or Liverpool didn't win it.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2021)

For traditionally mid table teams it’s business as usual.
Top teams very poor except City and Villa.
Down the bottom is the most exciting.
With the injuries we had we did well up to Xmas but have fallen off a cliff since.
So disappointing for me.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 14, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not sure I agree with this. Up until Xmas it was a good season for the neutral but since then City have gone on their winning run and everyone else has dropped away. If you took City out of the equation then it would be a brilliant season for the neutral with a decent and close title race. As long as Man U or Liverpool didn't win it.
		
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I had a look a couple of months ago re winners and runners up. There’s not many. Lose finishes to the title race, it seems to have become the norm that one team has won it with quite a few games to go. We have not seen many Aguerooooooooooooo ends to the season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2021)

funkycoldmedina said:



			I think Leeds fans would be pretty happy with their season but I take your point pretty much everyone else has underperformed
		
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I did think about Leeds but they have lost a lot of games so I wavered. I think you are probably right though 👍


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I did think about Leeds but they have lost a lot of games so I wavered. I think you are probably right though 👍
		
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First season up and they're pretty much safe from relegation with 10 games to go, I think they'll be pleased. Looking to build on that next season though. 

Villa fans must be pretty happy as well. Gone from staying up by the skin of their teeth to top half at the moment. I don't think United or Leicester fans would be _un_happy if they finish where they are now. And Fulham have the potential to be happy as I think they'll stay up at the expense of Newcastle, or maybe Brighton.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			After another hugely frustrating game last night I looked at the table and thought about how many other supporters of clubs felt the same. Who this year will be happy with their team?

I reckon City and West Hams fans only can feel truly satisfied.

Utd are 2nd but have been awful at times. Leicester 3rd but have lost a number of times against weak opposition. Chelsea are 4th but have sacked a manager. That doesn't happen if all is well.

Villa fans perhaps have a shout but they also have lost daft games.

Any suggestions for who should be genuinely happy with their season and why, apart from those two mentioned? It's the inconsistency this year that is driving me nuts.
		
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City for winning the league.

Leicester if they finish top 4, as like us have had a large amount of injuries.

Us, if we finish top 4, although at end of December we were still challenging. During the season expectations will change.

West Ham as these are lofty heights, but lets see where they finish.

Villa and Everton if they finish top 6, but again, like West Ham, are they used to fighting for matches in April and May (outside of relegation fights) or will the slippers come out as normal once the sun comes out?

Leeds have something to build on.

Fulham if they finish 4th from bottom.


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2021)

Wow, what a goal from Lamela! Goal of the season for me.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 14, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Wow, what a goal from Lamela! Goal of the season for me.
		
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He’s done that before a few seasons ago it was even better than that goal.


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			He’s done that before a few seasons ago it was even better than that goal.
		
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Yeah Europa League wasn't it? 

Trying to think of the best goals this season to compare it to....


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## pauljames87 (Mar 14, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Yeah Europa League wasn't it?

Trying to think of the best goals this season to compare it to....

Click to expand...

Lanzini last min 3-3

If that goal wins the Derby it's even better 

Salah Vs west ham few weeks ago one foot control other foot in


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lanzini last min 3-3

If that goal wins the Derby it's even better

Salah Vs west ham few weeks ago one foot control other foot in
		
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Lanzini was ridiculous. The Salah counter definitely up there. I liked Bruno's lob/dipper against Everton for the arrogance of it, Cantona like especially as he walked off without barely a celebration.


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Wow, what a goal from Lamela! Goal of the season for me.
		
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Absolutely outrageous. I was a bit gutted he didn't start as he loves a derby, you could see him wasting no time winding up Xhaka and Luiz when he came on - no accident he chose those two. A little silver lining to Son going off. Just superb.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 14, 2021)

Spurs gone back into defensive mode, not what I was expecting after seeing the team  selected and the recent games. Need better second half


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## USER1999 (Mar 14, 2021)

If Lacazette had brought his shooting boots, this would be done by now.


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Spurs gone back into defensive mode, not what I was expecting after seeing the team  selected and the recent games. Need better second half
		
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Arsenal definitely had the better half, we would have been lucky to go in in front. I can see Jose putting Sissoko on for Bale and shutting up shop to be honest. Too easy for Tierney down their left when Bale won't track back and Doherty frankly isn't a defender at all.


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Absolutely outrageous. I was a bit gutted he didn't start as he loves a derby, you could see him wasting no time winding up Xhaka and Luiz when he came on - no accident he chose those two. A little silver lining to Son going off. Just superb.
		
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He's definitely got an edge to him. Spurs have been pretty poor though, Arsenal unlucky not to be leading. Let's hope for a better second half as I've got a big accumulator going and I need Spurs! 

Wonder what Arsenal fans will make of Arteta dropping Auba for being late? Total respect to him for it IMO, you can't have a club captain being late on a regular basis.


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## Jensen (Mar 14, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			If Lacazette had brought his shooting boots, this would be done by now.
		
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Despite a dodgy deflection, I think it was deserved on effort and possession


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Arsenal definitely had the better half, we would have been lucky to go in in front. I can see Jose putting Sissoko on for Bale and shutting up shop to be honest. Too easy for Tierney down their left when Bale won't track back and Doherty frankly isn't a defender at all.
		
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Doherty has been really bad everytime I've seen him play. Better suited to the 352 at Wolves?


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## Rlburnside (Mar 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Arsenal definitely had the better half, we would have been lucky to go in in front. I can see Jose putting Sissoko on for Bale and shutting up shop to be honest. Too easy for Tierney down their left when Bale won't track back and Doherty frankly isn't a defender at all.
		
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The shop never opened 😡. agree he will have to do something about the left hand side, I’d rather see more attacking and getting the best out of Bale than bringing on Sissoko who has had a poor season


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## Jensen (Mar 14, 2021)

Bale off, Sissoko on, Mourinho’s going for the draw 🤣🤣


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## USER1999 (Mar 14, 2021)

Has Lacazette ever played football before?

Good penalty though.


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Doherty has been really bad everytime I've seen him play. Better suited to the 352 at Wolves?
		
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He's like an old school right midfielder basically. Doesn't look like a full back in a million years. I think he was a bit of a snap purchase because he was going for a low-ish amount but we didn't think it through.

Sanchez is just rubbish. Panics and dives in, Lacazette had a whiff at the ball and didn't even make contact but we gift them a penalty. How is Sanchez still getting games? Even when he plays well the next brainfart is just around the corner.

I called the Sissoko Bale sub, and we had to do something because we were wide open down the right. But now we've used all our subs and we're 2-1 behind. Classic.


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## paddyc (Mar 14, 2021)

Pretty  poor from spurs so far, we are certainly  looking sharper and deservedly  in front.


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## USER1999 (Mar 14, 2021)

Why is lamela wearing gloves? It's not even cold. It's a peeve of mine. If you are cold, run around a bit more, but it is 8 degrees.


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## USER1999 (Mar 14, 2021)

Gone now anyway.


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Why is lamela wearing gloves? It's not even cold. It's a peeve of mine. If you are cold, run around a bit more, but it is 8 degrees.
		
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I often wear gloves for football. My hands obviously have poor circulation and are always frozen. Running warms your core but does nothing for your hands. I'd rather wear gloves and not be distracted by having cold hands. I never have any idea why that would upset anyone else. 🙄


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## Tashyboy (Mar 14, 2021)

Kane’s challenge reminds me of Costa or Suarez. ☹️


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## Jensen (Mar 14, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Why is lamela wearing gloves? It's not even cold. It's a peeve of mine. If you are cold, run around a bit more, but it is 8 degrees.
		
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Tart...


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## paddyc (Mar 14, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Why is lamela wearing gloves? It's not even cold. It's a peeve of mine. If you are cold, run around a bit more, but it is 8 degrees.
		
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Boxing gloves were they!


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## USER1999 (Mar 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I often wear gloves for football. My hands obviously have poor circulation and are always frozen. Running warms your core but does nothing for your hands. I'd rather wear gloves and not be distracted by having cold hands. I never have any idea why that would upset anyone else. 🙄
		
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I would be a tad surprised if a professional sportsman has poor circulation.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 14, 2021)

Always on the cards for Lamela , Smith Rowe looks a good player


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			I would be a tad surprised if a professional sportsman has poor circulation.
		
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Really? Why??


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## USER1999 (Mar 14, 2021)

Moura is another one.


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## paddyc (Mar 14, 2021)

Has Thomas been Parteying too much having an awful few minutes


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Moura is another one.
		
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They're both South American for goodness sake, 8° is definitely cold for them. 🙄


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## need_my_wedge (Mar 14, 2021)

We're trying our hardest to let the spuds back into this


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## Kellfire (Mar 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Really? Why??
		
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Being talented with your feet obviously means you have excellent vasculature in your other extremities and that you must experience discomfort in your hands to show just how manly you are. Don’t you know that?


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## Rlburnside (Mar 14, 2021)

Kane , Son, Bale, Moura why pick a team with such great attacking players then sit back for most of the game😡


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## pauljames87 (Mar 14, 2021)

Noble starts 

Cue 3-0 loss


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## Jensen (Mar 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			They're both South American for goodness sake, 8° is definitely cold for them. 🙄
		
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Behave....have a word with yourself. It’s pathetic


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## need_my_wedge (Mar 14, 2021)

Can't recall seeing a man lying down behind the wall before.....🥸


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Behave....have a word with yourself. It’s pathetic
		
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I think having a whinge about someone wearing gloves based on some outdated notion of being a 'real man' is quite pathetic personally.


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## Kellfire (Mar 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think having a whinge about someone wearing gloves based on some outdated notion of being a 'real man' is quite pathetic personally.
		
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st0p bean so WOKE


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## pauljames87 (Mar 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think having a whinge about someone wearing gloves based on some outdated notion of being a 'real man' is quite pathetic personally.
		
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My mate wore gloves

Hard as nails but had poor circulation in his hands

Would love to see someone take him on lol


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## paddyc (Mar 14, 2021)

Up the Arsenal  get in😁😁🍺🍺🍺unlucky Spurs Haha!


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## Jensen (Mar 14, 2021)

Tottenham were poor and in all honesty didn’t deserve anything. No urgency too lacklustre. 
I like Lucas Moura, he’s quick, good with both feet and always puts a shift in, despite wearing gloves 🤣🤣
We never really  got going until Lamela got himself sent off, even if he didn’t I don’t think the result would have been any different


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Tottenham were poor and in all honesty didn’t deserve anything. No urgency too lacklustre.
I like Lucas Moura, he’s quick, good with both feet and always puts a shift in, despite wearing gloves 🤣🤣
We never really  got going until Lamela got himself sent off, even if he didn’t I don’t think the result would have been any different
		
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Agreed. Didn't show up. It wasn't a derby performance. Not enough of the players seem to get what it means - Lamela does, but then he took it too far. I would have liked to see Dier in for Sanchez as he normally gets it as well. Lucas was lively but we left him too much to do. A world class goal out of nothing and absolutely bugger all else for 80 minutes is not good enough. We were timid and afraid. 

I've always said Lucas was streets ahead of Bergwijn to be fair.


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2021)

Spurs were rubbish, Arsenal had more zip about their play and deserved it. For all the attacking players on the pitch for Spurs, theres no link. They badly miss Eriksen.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 14, 2021)

Arsenal reaching the magical 40 points 

Prem football for them next year


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## pauljames87 (Mar 14, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Can't recall seeing a man lying down behind the wall before.....🥸
		
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You must have not been watching much this season? Or tongue in cheek?

Every team has done it least once 

Starting with Pablo fornals


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			You must have not been watching much this season? Or tongue in cheek?

Every team has done it least once

Starting with Pablo fornals
		
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I don't know why it's caught on so much. How many times in your life have you ever seen someone smash a free kick under the wall? Three or four? It's not like there was a spate of goals like that, but suddenly everyone is doing this man-on-the-ground thing.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know why it's caught on so much. How many times in your life have you ever seen someone smash a free kick under the wall? Three or four? It's not like there was a spate of goals like that, but suddenly everyone is doing this man-on-the-ground thing.
		
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I agree I can think of about 3 in memory and long time ago

Must be something in it as everyone doing it


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2021)

Rumours of Ronaldo coming back to Utd. Bagged a hatrick for Juve and on course for 30+ goals at aged 36.

Love to see it!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 14, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Rumours of Ronaldo coming back to Utd. Bagged a hatrick for Juve and on course for 30+ goals at aged 36.

Love to see it!
		
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Alex there’s rumours of Ronaldo going back to Madrid as well. Where did you hear the utd link.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Alex there’s rumours of Ronaldo going back to Madrid as well. Where did you hear the utd link.
		
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His agent? Sorry, his agent is a decent chap. He wouldn't artificially be trying to create a false bidding war to bump up his salary/signing on fee 🤔


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## AmandaJR (Mar 14, 2021)

I was going to put the bloke lying behind the wall in Random Irritations - flipping ridiculous! Whay are so many teams (including City on one occasion at least) suddenly doing it?!


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## pauljames87 (Mar 14, 2021)

Noble starts means a return to slow useless football

Need more zip in the team .. benrahma or even lanzini would help

They said we need a set piece but soon as we had one we put noble on it and wasted it! Where as cresswell has what 9 assists? 

I'm gutted he has signed a new deal. Another year of suffering his performances


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Alex there’s rumours of Ronaldo going back to Madrid as well. Where did you hear the utd link.
		
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No sources, purely from football gossip this evening. It makes sense though as Juve can't afford him and he's making them one dimensional, despite his goals. All Juve do it get it wide and sling in crosses. Rich mans Wimbledon with Ronaldo and Morata upfront  However Ole is such an old school manager I think Ronaldo would transform the Utd side. They need a clinical striker with presence in the air. Sancho and Ronaldo they'd definitely mount a challenge.

Perfect short term signing on a free with shirt sales galore. Great way for Ronaldo to finish his career infront of the fans that love him and the club that made him.


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## Kellfire (Mar 14, 2021)

4LEX said:



			No sources, purely from football gossip this evening. It makes sense though as Juve can't afford him and he's making them one dimensional, despite his goals. All Juve do it get it wide and sling in crosses. Rich mans Wimbledon with Ronaldo and Morata upfront  However Ole is such an old school manager I think Ronaldo would transform the Utd side. They need a clinical striker with presence in the air. Sancho and Ronaldo they'd definitely mount a challenge.

Perfect short term signing on a free with shirt sales galore. Great way for Ronaldo to finish his career infront of the fans that love him and the club that made him.
		
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If Cavani is off to South America I’d take Ronaldo back for a swan song.


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			If Cavani is off to South America I’d take Ronaldo back for a swan song.
		
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I rate Cavani highly but he's never been a clinical striker, always relied on his legs and work rate. Similiar to Tevez I guess. Reckon Ronaldo would be a great signing, love to see him in red one last time. Still think he'd get 30 goals. The Utd side lacks good headers of the ball, makes it difficult for full backs and wingers to pick perfect crosses instead of putting them into the danger zones.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 14, 2021)

Noble off 

Instant improvement

Come on get a draw


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 14, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371171998265655296
Ouch


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2021)

Don't dither on the ball in a derby, welcome to England!

Seriously, awful challenge and a ban incoming. Although congratulations to VAR for picking up on it


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371171998265655296
Ouch
		
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If a couple more of our players actually committed to a few challenges like that we might have got a result.


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## IainP (Mar 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If a couple more of our players actually committed to a few challenges like that *we might have got a result.* 

Click to expand...

You did  - but the result wasn't a win 😉😉


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## need_my_wedge (Mar 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			You must have not been watching much this season? Or tongue in cheek?

Every team has done it least once

Starting with Pablo fornals
		
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I don't watch much footy these days. Genuinely, the first time I've seen it, not sure I can see the worth.


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## Slime (Mar 14, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Why is lamela wearing gloves? It's not even cold. It's a peeve of mine. If you are cold, run around a bit more, but it is 8 degrees.
		
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If, like me, you suffered from Raynaud's Syndrome, you'd understand.


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## Billysboots (Mar 15, 2021)

I can’t understand the clamour for Ronaldo. Wonderful player, still fit as a flea, but United have set their stall out - they are building for the future and, whilst not doubting Ronaldo *might *bang in 20+ goals, that is by no means guaranteed.

Whilst not disputing his record in Spain and Italy, the Premier League is fast and physical - perhaps more so that when he last graced Old Trafford. He’s older, more likely to pick up minor muscle injuries which will take time to heal, and my view is the club should continue to build for the future, not live in the past.

I was at the game when Ronaldo made his first substitute’s appearance - against Bolton, I think it was - and what I saw that day had me excited for the years ahead. I’d rather have that feeling than a few months where I can go all misty eyed thinking of how things used to be.

If United want a striker, and I think they desperately need a clinical finisher, then there are younger options out there. Erling Haaland would be top of my list.


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I can’t understand the clamour for Ronaldo. Wonderful player, still fit as a flea, but United have set their stall out - they are building for the future and, whilst not doubting Ronaldo *might *bang in 20+ goals, that is by no means guaranteed.

Whilst not disputing his record in Spain and Italy, the Premier League is fast and physical - perhaps more so that when he last graced Old Trafford. He’s older, more likely to pick up minor muscle injuries which will take time to heal, and my view is the club should continue to build for the future, not live in the past.

I was at the game when Ronaldo made his first substitute’s appearance - against Bolton, I think it was - and what I saw that day had me excited for the years ahead. I’d rather have that feeling than a few months where I can go all misty eyed thinking of how things used to be.

If United want a striker, and I think they desperately need a clinical finisher, then there are younger options out there. Erling Haaland would be top of my list.
		
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Seems symptomatic of United these days, I'm not sure if they have a clear blueprint of what they're doing. They appear to be building for the future, but they were happy to bring in Zlatan, Ighalo and Cavani in recent years. Back when they signed Zlatan I thought he was too old to make the step from an inferior league to the Prem, and I was wrong as he did very well - so there's no way I'd say the same thing about Ronaldo and risk being proved wrong again! The clever thing that Ronaldo has done is completely change his game now from the swashbuckling inverted winger to out-and-out targetman pretty much. He's phenomenal in the air, still strong and quick so he can do as well as any striker even at his age - it's just less running for him really. Probably extended his career three years by doing that. There's no doubt in my mind he'd clear 20 goals if he came, but obviously it wouldn't be long term. Has a year maybe two left in him at the most.

I can't see Haaland going to United, he could have his pick of any club in the world. More likely to go for City or someone else who's guaranteed trophies.


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## Billysboots (Mar 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Seems symptomatic of United these days, I'm not sure if they have a clear blueprint of what they're doing. They appear to be building for the future, but they were happy to bring in Zlatan, Ighalo and Cavani in recent years. Back when they signed Zlatan I thought he was too old to make the step from an inferior league to the Prem, and I was wrong as he did very well - so there's no way I'd say the same thing about Ronaldo and risk being proved wrong again! The clever thing that Ronaldo has done is completely change his game now from the swashbuckling inverted winger to out-and-out targetman pretty much. He's phenomenal in the air, still strong and quick so he can do as well as any striker even at his age - it's just less running for him really. Probably extended his career three years by doing that. There's no doubt in my mind he'd clear 20 goals if he came, but obviously it wouldn't be long term. Has a year maybe two left in him at the most.

I can't see Haaland going to United, he could have his pick of any club in the world. More likely to go for City or someone else who's guaranteed trophies.
		
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I’m hoping the long overdue appointments of a Technical Director and Director of Football will bring a much needed end to the scattergun transfer policy we have seen for almost ten years.

I’ve said it many times - the failure to offload deadwood on inflated wages says as much about the management of transfers as the repeated failure to bring identified players in. Then you have the marquee signings, huge financial outlay on players with no clue how they’ll be employed. Di Maria was a classic example - a breathtaking signing, but never in a month of Sundays a LVG player. That one signing summed up a chaotic transfer policy.

I like what Solskjaer is doing at the club. And I like that the club appear to be giving him time. But for the time invested in him to bear fruit in the long term, short term stop gap signings are not the way to go, regardless of how good they are. Zlatan did exceptionally well, but we were totally one dimensional whilst he was there. Cavani? I love the guy, but nobody will convince me he was anything other than a panic buy, and he’s already showing that age is catching up with him, with a couple of niggling injuries.

Ronaldo is a legend, and would doubtless do a job. But in doing that job for one season, maybe two, his presence prevents any long term building. For that reason I’d rather the club looked elsewhere.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 15, 2021)

Utds problem is not a striker. Utds problem having a manager who is not getting 100% out of the current players. Ronaldo going back to Utd is not the answer to take Utd to the next level.


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## Billysboots (Mar 15, 2021)

Tash, I think a striker is one issue of three or four.

I will say until my last breath that, capable as Rashford is of some remarkable things, he misses far too many routine chances. Martial is a better finisher but very streaky in terms of confidence and performance. And Greenwood is one for the future. They need a 20 goals a season striker.

Add to that a commanding centre half with pace, and a right sided midfielder, and I don’t think we’re far off being serious challengers again.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 15, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Tash, I think a striker is one issue of three or four.

I will say until my last breath that, capable as Rashford is of some remarkable things, he misses far too many routine chances. Martial is a better finisher but very streaky in terms of confidence and performance. And Greenwood is one for the future. They need a 20 goals a season striker.

Add to that a commanding centre half with pace, and a right sided midfielder, and I don’t think we’re far off being serious challengers again.
		
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Similar to Liverpool imo.
Our strikers do score goals but they miss some chances.
But lots of teams play now with a false 9.
But I would prefer a proper CF who knows how to finish.
Quite a rare player though.
Like you I would like Harland but would he fit Liverpool.


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2021)

I'm sure Kane will be available soon as he must be sick of playing for us and winning nothing, so you guys can fight over him.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 15, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Tash, I think a striker is one issue of three or four.

I will say until my last breath that, capable as Rashford is of some remarkable things, he misses far too many routine chances. Martial is a better finisher but very streaky in terms of confidence and performance. And Greenwood is one for the future. They need a 20 goals a season striker.

Add to that a commanding centre half with pace, and a right sided midfielder, and I don’t think we’re far off being serious challengers again.
		
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When you mentioned Rashford you could of inserted Sterling in your description. I remember when Pep came in and he told sterling you are picking the ball up in the wrong places. He said I want you here. Sterling said “ then what”. Peps reply do what you do naturally. In essence pep was coaching Sterling, telling him where to be. Not just for him but for the team. I think that’s where OGS is not getting 100% out of his team.


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			When you mentioned Rashford you could of inserted Sterling in your description. *I remember when Pep came in and he told sterling you are picking the ball up in the wrong places. He said I want you here.* Sterling said “ then what”. Peps reply do what you do naturally. In essence pep was coaching Sterling, telling him where to be. Not just for him but for the team. I think that’s where OGS is not getting 100% out of his team.
		
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Was this a polite way of saying, "You can't shoot to save your life, try and make sure when you get the ball you're only 3 yards out so you can't miss."


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## Billysboots (Mar 15, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			When you mentioned Rashford you could of inserted Sterling in your description. I remember when Pep came in and he told sterling you are picking the ball up in the wrong places. He said I want you here. Sterling said “ then what”. Peps reply do what you do naturally. In essence pep was coaching Sterling, telling him where to be. Not just for him but for the team. I think that’s where OGS is not getting 100% out of his team.
		
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Indeed, Sterling always seems to have stinkers when he plays against us 😎.

Solskjaer isn’t doing too badly. Luke Shaw has come on in leaps and bounds, and Fred has become a reliable performer. I am less than convinced elsewhere though. Fernandes aside we lack the creativity to unlock packed defences - we’re great on the counter, but when sides sit deep we seem to revert to a slow, laboured approach.

And up front is frustrating. It’s rare I ever see Rashford make a run across his defender to the near post, seeming to prefer to hang back at the far post and wait for a defensive mistake. And don’t start me on his conversion rate, especially one on ones, which I suspect makes for grim reading. I find myself shouting at the TV far too often when I watch him.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Was this a polite way of saying, "You can't shoot to save your life, try and make sure when you get the ball you're only 3 yards out so you can't miss."
		
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My true feelings towards Sterling may well lead to an infraction. bringing Spurs/ Kane into it. Can you remember when Kane never passed to Sterling V Croatia. It was the wrong decision coz we didn’t score but I can totally understand why Kane never passed. Sterling is the most frustrating player in City’s starting 11. He misses sitters and then scores a worldly. He is clever enough to understand Peps system. But at times sweet mother and Mary. Looking at most teams in the prem that have had a 
“ disappointing” season. Even though Pep has world class players at City, I cannot help but think that if he was at Spurs, arsenal, Utd. He would get more out of the players..
That aside, what went off with a aubameyang at arsenal, was he stuck in traffi as has been reported.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 15, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Indeed, Sterling always seems to have stinkers when he plays against us 😎.

Solskjaer isn’t doing too badly. Luke Shaw has come on in leaps and bounds, and Fred has become a reliable performer. I am less than convinced elsewhere though. Fernandes aside we lack the creativity to unlock packed defences - we’re great on the counter, but when sides sit deep we seem to revert to a slow, laboured approach.

And up front is frustrating. It’s rare I ever see Rashford make a run across his defender to the near post, seeming to prefer to hang back at the far post and wait for a defensive mistake. And don’t start me on his conversion rate, especially one on ones, which I suspect makes for grim reading. I find myself shouting at the TV far too often when I watch him.
		
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Ave said this before, I saw Luke Shaw play for the Saints against City and he was immense. All that was up with him was he wanted to be loved. Mouriniho is not a lover.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sure Kane will be available soon as he must be sick of playing for us and winning nothing, so you guys can fight over him.
		
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Dodgy ankles might bring the price down .
Utd can have him if we get Harland.


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Dodgy ankles might bring the price down .
		
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You do realise they'd be negotiating this sale with Daniel Levy? If he leaves it'll be for a near world record fee.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You do realise they'd be negotiating this sale with Daniel Levy? If he leaves it'll be for a near world record fee. 

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If Levy wants a record fee he won’t be going anywhere.


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If Levy wants a record fee he won’t be going anywhere.
		
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I wish I was that confident. We are talking about one of the best strikers in the world here.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I wish I was that confident. We are talking about one of the best strikers in the world here.
		
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Yes I agree.
Would love him at Liverpool .
The way he drops to a 10 is brilliant like Firmino but Kane can finish .
Possibly one of the best passers of a through ball I have ever seen.


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## GB72 (Mar 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I wish I was that confident. We are talking about one of the best strikers in the world here.
		
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I guess the problem is going to be the market now. How many clubs at the moment can afford a £100 million plus player and, of those, is Kane as fashionable a name as Haaland or Mbappe at the moment when it comes to who they would spend that big money on. I am not sure which clubs I can see in the current climate being willing to offer any where near what Spurs feel he is worth.


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I guess the problem is going to be the market now. How many clubs at the moment can afford a £100 million plus player and, of those, is Kane as fashionable a name as Haaland or Mbappe at the moment when it comes to who they would spend that big money on. I am not sure which clubs I can see in the current climate being willing to offer any where near what Spurs feel he is worth.
		
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United have a long history of throwing money at our players, and other similar level clubs! They tend to pay the big bucks for players that are already proven in this league - and homegrown as an added benefit.


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## GB72 (Mar 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			United have a long history of throwing money at our players, and other similar level clubs! They tend to pay the big bucks for players that are already proven in this league - and homegrown as an added benefit.
		
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Surely Kane is only going to want to leave Spurs for a club where he can almost be guaranteed silverware though at this stage of his career and that limits the market.


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Surely Kane is only going to want to leave Spurs for a club where he can almost be guaranteed silverware though at this stage of his career and that limits the market.
		
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I would agree with you. But they might be able to persuade him they're in a good position to win trophies, along with throwing him 300k a week... Not that I'm talking this up, but pessimism is just a classic Spurs fan trait.


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## GB72 (Mar 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I would agree with you. But they might be able to persuade him they're in a good position to win trophies, along with throwing him 300k a week... Not that I'm talking this up, but pessimism is just a classic Spurs fan trait. 

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Cannot help that there were reports a few weeks ago that he may be sold simply to clear off a chunk of stadium debt rather than re-invest in the squad.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2021)

Spurs may well want a record fee for Kane but those injuries over the past 4 years or so are going to stop that happening 

The teams who could afford him and guarentee him trophies are going to be looking at the likes of Haaland , Mbappe , Felix etc 

Would surprise if whoever doesn’t get Haaland will then look at Kane for second choice but will go for around £80mil if he does want to leave


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## MegaSteve (Mar 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spurs may well want a record fee for Kane but those injuries over the past 4 years or so are going to stop that happening

The teams who could afford him and guarentee him trophies are going to be looking at the likes of Haaland , Mbappe , Felix etc

Would surprise if whoever doesn’t get Haaland will then look at Kane for second choice but will go for around £80mil if he does want to leave
		
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For the purposes of a move to another prem club Kane has something the others can't offer... A proven track record [in the prem]... Personally I can see him moving to Chelski...


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			For the purposes of a move to another prem club Kane has something the others can't offer... A proven track record [in the prem]... Personally I can see him moving to Chelski...
		
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I don't think he would do that to us. If he goes it'll be up north or abroad. I also reckon Levy wouldn't even entertain an offer from them.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think he would do that to us. If he goes it'll be up north or abroad. I also reckon Levy wouldn't even entertain an offer from them.
		
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Currently missing at 'the bridge' is a proven goal scorer...
Always available is loads of dosh...
Spuds need the dosh...
A marriage made in hell ...

Suspect the only continental club that would/could afford Levy's expectations is PSG...
Can't see him [Kane] heading north...


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			For the purposes of a move to another prem club Kane has something the others can't offer... A proven track record [in the prem]... Personally I can see him moving to Chelski...
		
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I can’t see him going to another London club , we wouldn’t spent the money on him , City or United maybe but they are looking at bigger targets


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## USER1999 (Mar 15, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			That aside, what went off with a aubameyang at arsenal, was he stuck in traffi as has been reported.
		
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He is always, always flipping late. It doesn't matter what excuse he had, it was once too many times, and an example needed to be made, Captain or not. I am fine with it. But it really only works if you win.


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Tash, I think a striker is one issue of three or four.

I will say until my last breath that, capable as Rashford is of some remarkable things, he misses far too many routine chances. Martial is a better finisher but very streaky in terms of confidence and performance. And Greenwood is one for the future. They need a 20 goals a season striker.

Add to that a commanding centre half with pace, and a right sided midfielder, and I don’t think we’re far off being serious challengers again.
		
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I think we also need a quality CDM to replace Fred.
That would also release Scott McDominate to be a proper box to box midfielder.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 15, 2021)

Slime said:



			I think we also need a quality CDM to replace Fred.
That would also release Scott McDominate to be a proper box to box midfielder.
		
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ave got to say that the few times I have seen McDominay play I have been massively impressed.

Re Spurs I have been massively puzzled by them. City have them in the final of the league cup. until yesterday I thought City are going to struggle big style. If Spurs turn up like yesterday, City will get half a dozen. Again, what is going on there. Spurs looked at there very best when they were down to 10 men. Why?

One for the spuds fans me finks.


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			ave got to say that the few times I have seen McDominay play I have been massively impressed.

Re Spurs I have been massively puzzled by them. City have them in the final of the league cup. until yesterday I thought City are going to struggle big style. If Spurs turn up like yesterday, City will get half a dozen. Again, what is going on there. Spurs looked at there very best when they were down to 10 men. Why?

One for the spuds fans me finks.
		
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We're either very, very good, or we don't turn up at all. Who knows which one you'll get.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			We're either very, very good, or we don't turn up at all. Who knows which one you'll get.
		
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I hope Harry Kane gets a proper trophy one day, he is to good not to. Just not against City. He don’t want to be the Westwood of the football world where he don’t get a major/ trophy.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 15, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I hope Harry Kane gets a proper trophy one day, he is to good not to. Just not against City. He don’t want to be the Westwood of the football world where he don’t get a major/ trophy.
		
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Lots of quality players with sparse trophy cabinets.
Chelsea would make sense he can stay in his house then.


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I hope Harry Kane gets a proper trophy one day, he is to good not to. Just not against City. He don’t want to be the Westwood of the football world where he don’t get a major/ trophy.
		
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I'm not convinced the League Cup counts anymore. If we won the League Cup - would it end the jokes about us not winning a trophy? No they'd just change it say we haven't won a major trophy. Would Kane think "great I've won a trophy, I'm satisfied now so I'll stay"? Probably not. He'll be wanting to compete for a league, or Europe.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 15, 2021)

Think that just about sums up the keeping the flag down.
Keepers really hurt unnecessarily by playing on.
Just put the flag up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think that just about sums up the keeping the flag down.
Keepers really hurt unnecessarily by playing on.
Just put the flag up.
		
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Sorry but even if the flag had gone up that would have still happened

That was all very quick and the players would have still gone on during that incident


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Wow this goalie situation is not good.
They haven't shown a single shot of what's happening, that's always a sign it's a bad one 😐
		
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Coadys knee straight into the jaw and head at quite a pace


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but even if the flag had gone up that would have still happened

That was all very quick and the players would have still gone on during that incident
		
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No I disagree .
If he puts the flag up and the whistle goes it dosnt happen.
It’s a bad rule brought in for VAR ,and a accident waiting to happen.

But will concede it might have made no difference but it just might of.
Just hope the lads ok.


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## hairball_89 (Mar 15, 2021)

Horrendous. Hopefully Patricio gets lucky because that looked awful. It's never a good sign when a player doesn't move a muscle. And then they don't show a replay at all.

Good win, but feels a bit cold talking about the football right now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			No I disagree .
If he puts the flag up and the whistle goes it dosnt happen.
It’s a bad rule brought in for VAR ,and a accident waiting to happen.

But will concede it might have made no difference but it just might of.
Just hope the lads ok.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that the rule is a poor one and would get rid of it but they won’t because of VAR

In this incident I don’t think it would have made a difference

The good news is he is apparently awake and talking and has full recollection of the incident


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I agree that the rule is a poor one and would get rid of it but they won’t because of VAR

In this incident I don’t think it would have made a difference

The good news is he is apparently awake and talking and has full recollection of the incident
		
Click to expand...

I disagree, whilst we still have VAR. Yes, there is always a chance that there may be a bad injury, but too many times linesmen flag when someone is level or on. Yes, when they are certain and its by a yard or two, but when its quick runs, crossing over, dont flag.

If we get rid of VAR, fair enough.

That could have been a pen a few minutes in.


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## Bazzatron (Mar 15, 2021)

He's awake and talking which is a positive.


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## Bazzatron (Mar 15, 2021)

Craig Pawson...actually what's the point.


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## hairball_89 (Mar 15, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Craig Pawson...actually what's the point.
		
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Fair question! And tbf, how VAR missed the pen right at the start of the game I'll never know. Absolute stone wall on Semedo for me. I'd be fuming if it had been the other end. 

great news that Patricio is up and talking. he's gonna have a stonking headache in the morning!


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I agree that the rule is a poor one and would get rid of it but they won’t because of VAR

In this incident I don’t think it would have made a difference

The good news is he is apparently awake and talking and has full recollection of the incident
		
Click to expand...

In my honest opinion this incident was avoidable.
The outfield players may not have had time to react .
But the keeper would have seen the flag and heard the whistle if blown after the flag went up.
He then would not try and make the save.

Anyway we’re just guessing so it’s if and buts.
As long as the lads ok that’s all that matters.


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## Orikoru (Mar 16, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Wow this goalie situation is not good.
They haven't shown a single shot of what's happening, that's always a sign it's a bad one 😐
		
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I found the video on Twitter last night, don't know if it's still there. Basically Coady running back towards his own goal, eyes on the ball, the keeper comes flying out and Coady goes over/through him. It looked like his knee must have caught Patricio's head.


In general I agree about the late flags being stupid and potentially causing incidents, however in this particular incident it could only have gone up one or maybe two seconds earlier, and I believe Salah, Patricio & Coady would have still done what they did since you play to the whistle. The keeper wouldn't just see the flag and not do his job since the ref might disagree.


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## Orikoru (Mar 18, 2021)

*Goalkeepers:* Dean Henderson (Manchester United), Sam Johnstone (West Brom), Nick Pope (Burnley).

*Defenders:* Ben Chilwell (Chelsea), Conor Coady (Wolves), Eric Dier (Tottenham), Reece James (Chelsea), Harry Maguire (Manchester United), Tyrone Mings (Aston Villa), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Atletico Madrid), Kyle Walker (Manchester City).

*Midfielders:* Jude Bellingham (Borussia Dortmund), Phil Foden (Manchester City), Jesse Lingard (West Ham, on loan from Manchester United), Mason Mount (Chelsea), Kalvin Phillips (Leeds), Declan Rice (West Ham), James Ward-Prowse (Southampton).

*Forwards:* Dominic Calvert-Lewin (Everton), Harry Kane (Tottenham), Marcus Rashford (Manchester United), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa).


I can't believe Lingard has made it off about 4 games but there you go. Doesn't take much to get into such a poor midfield I suppose - and Southgate always liked him before. Great that Pickford is missing, I know he's injured, but either way it gives the others a chance to step up and make that place their own. Bellingham is a left-field pick, I've never seen him in real life but he was amazing on Football Manager 20. 😁


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## Kellfire (Mar 18, 2021)

I thought Bellingham couldn’t play because Dortmund won’t release players who can’t immediately play for them on their return?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 18, 2021)

Dier,, Eric flippin Dier. Dear God.

Another golden generation will be wasted by a golden waistcoat.


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## Orikoru (Mar 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Dier,, Eric flippin Dier. Dear God.

Another golden generation will be wasted by a golden waistcoat.
		
Click to expand...

He's improved a lot as a centre back this season. Or maybe anyone looks good next to Davinson Sanchez, I don't know anymore.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



*Goalkeepers:* Dean Henderson (Manchester United), Sam Johnstone (West Brom), Nick Pope (Burnley).

*Defenders:* Ben Chilwell (Chelsea), Conor Coady (Wolves), Eric Dier (Tottenham), Reece James (Chelsea), Harry Maguire (Manchester United), Tyrone Mings (Aston Villa), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Atletico Madrid), Kyle Walker (Manchester City).

*Midfielders:* Jude Bellingham (Borussia Dortmund), Phil Foden (Manchester City), Jesse Lingard (West Ham, on loan from Manchester United), Mason Mount (Chelsea), Kalvin Phillips (Leeds), Declan Rice (West Ham), James Ward-Prowse (Southampton).

*Forwards:* Dominic Calvert-Lewin (Everton), Harry Kane (Tottenham), Marcus Rashford (Manchester United), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa).


I can't believe Lingard has made it off about 4 games but there you go. Doesn't take much to get into such a poor midfield I suppose - and Southgate always liked him before. Great that Pickford is missing, I know he's injured, but either way it gives the others a chance to step up and make that place their own. Bellingham is a left-field pick, I've never seen him in real life but he was amazing on Football Manager 20. 😁
		
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To be fair lingard has been one of the most in form players in the league since he signed. Just because he broke your heart 🤣

4 goals , 2 assists (one only was winning a pen but by fantasy football goes down) in 6 games .. thats pretty decent form , plus grealish out someone got to take his place


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## pauljames87 (Mar 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Dier,, Eric flippin Dier. Dear God.

Another golden generation will be wasted by a golden waistcoat.
		
Click to expand...

Tbh on form Dawson should be called up ahead of him aha


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## USER1999 (Mar 18, 2021)

How the heck did Auba not score from there?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He's improved a lot as a centre back this season. Or maybe anyone looks good next to Davinson Sanchez, I don't know anymore.
		
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I thought his best game where he caused the least problems was in the Arsenal game.


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## USER1999 (Mar 18, 2021)

This just gets worse. 4 clear chances, none taken. Last one was just what you want for Auba, but no, totally balls it up.


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## fundy (Mar 18, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			This just gets worse. 4 clear chances, none taken. Last one was just what you want for Auba, but no, totally balls it up.
		
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turn over and watch the Zagreb game, far more fun atm


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2021)

Just seen the Spurs score 😂😂😂😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Mar 18, 2021)

Not seen any of the football tonight, but anyone got any clues who Mourinho is gonna blame for tonight’s defeat.


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## Orikoru (Mar 18, 2021)

God knows what excuse he can give for this. The players aren't doing it for him. He's got to go. No Champion's League. Sadly I think they'll give him until the League Cup final which is another month away before we get battered in that. He's meant to be this defensive genius of a coach, but he claims it's not his instructions that make us sit back, and we can't defend anyway. Clearly he only achieved his previous defensive records buy bringing in the right personnel. Or if he had the coaching ability, he must not have it anymore. Once we sack him that'll be his career over pretty much. No other bigger club will want him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			God knows what excuse he can give for this. The players aren't doing it for him. He's got to go. No Champion's League. Sadly I think they'll give him until the League Cup final which is another month away before we get battered in that. He's meant to be this defensive genius of a coach, but he claims it's not his instructions that make us sit back, and we can't defend anyway. Clearly he only achieved his previous defensive records buy bringing in the right personnel. Or if he had the coaching ability, he must not have it anymore. Once we sack him that'll be his career over pretty much. *No other bigger club will want him.*

Click to expand...

😂 he hasnt been at a big club since 2018


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## Rlburnside (Mar 18, 2021)

Well that’s goodbye Harry, terrible performance some of that comes from the Arsenal game which was to defensive and negative and put the club on a downer. 

Players deserve what they got tonight they were never in the game and at no time did they look like they would turn it around. 

Started poor and  tried not to concede instead of being positive and taking the game to them. 

I said when Jose was appointed that it would end bad,season over can’t see him being the manager next year.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			God knows what excuse he can give for this. The players aren't doing it for him. He's got to go. No Champion's League. Sadly I think they'll give him until the League Cup final which is another month away before we get battered in that. He's meant to be this defensive genius of a coach, but he claims it's not his instructions that make us sit back, and we can't defend anyway. Clearly he only achieved his previous defensive records buy bringing in the right personnel. Or if he had the coaching ability, he must not have it anymore. Once we sack him that'll be his career over pretty much. No other bigger club will want him.
		
Click to expand...

Mourinho says his biggest ever success was with Inter. It certainly was an achievement. But when he went nose to nose with City in the prem, his Utd squad was as good as Citys. The main difference was Pep v Mourinho. He just does not get the best out of his players. In fact I would say he has destroyed more players than he developed. I think OGS is the same, he don’t get the best out of players. But he don’t destroy them. For me the managers that get the best are Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Rodgers To name but a few.
I hope Mourinho stays 😉 The fans deserve better though.


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## Orikoru (Mar 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂 he hasnt been at a big club since 2018
		
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Why did you still make the joke when I deliberately said 'bigger' instead of 'big' to pre-empt the joke? Poor banter really.


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## PieMan (Mar 18, 2021)

#Spursy........... 😉😂😂

Thought it was lucky for Spurs when the year ended in 1? 🤔🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Mar 18, 2021)

Mourinho after the game.

More from Spurs boss Jose Mourinho, speaking to BT Sport: "I never like the feeling of some guys in football that say 'I won, they lost'. For me, 'we won, we drew, we lost'. I didn't run away from that. I am disappointed for a difference of attitude of one team to another. I feel sorry that my team is the team that didn't bring to the game not just the basics of football but the basics of life, which is to respect our jobs and to give everything.

"Sad is not enough. I totally respect everything that somebody connected or not connected with the club says about us tonight. I think we have to accept the problem is if some accept in the positive way in the sense of feeling hurt or ashamed with the critics. Another story is if you don't care or feel it. That is a much deeper problem. I don't need external critics. I feel deeply hurt with what happened with my team.

"I can only apologise to the Tottenham supporters. I hope they feel the same way I feel. Today is live or die and in this moment we die. In some other matches I have the same feeling. Until the last day of the season we have to try and do our best."

it sounds like I wrote that for him 😳


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## MegaSteve (Mar 18, 2021)

The Gooners were rubbish tonight but the Spuds were rubbishier...
So, not that bad an evening...


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## Billysboots (Mar 18, 2021)

If Solskjaer can keep getting that level of performance from Pogba and, more importantly, keep him playing with a smile on his face, it will be an enormous achievement.

A genuinely world class performer, I am at long last convinced the club will be better with him, rather than without.


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## Slime (Mar 18, 2021)

A really good win for United.
Pogba, love him or hate him, is a quality player.
He made all the difference.
Henderson had a good game, too.
Fred, I just think he's colour blind, his passing was truly abysmal.


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## Slime (Mar 18, 2021)

AWB, why is he not in the England squad?


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## Orikoru (Mar 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			AWB, why is he not in the England squad?
		
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Weirdly right back seems to be the most fiercely competitive position. There are three rights backs in and none of them are Trent either!


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## Slime (Mar 18, 2021)

I don't think this red card will be appealed!!


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## Beezerk (Mar 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			AWB, why is he not in the England squad?
		
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He doesn't pick up the pieces though does he 👀


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## Piece (Mar 19, 2021)

Been off ill recently, giving me a chance to binge watch 'All or Nothing - Spurs' in one day, yesterday.

Having viewed the series, wasn't that surprised to see them knocked out last night. Player soft under belly when it matters. Didnt see that in the City series.


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## Billysboots (Mar 19, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He doesn't pick up the pieces though does he 👀
		
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Showing your age there 😎


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## 3offTheTee (Mar 19, 2021)

How has Pogba managed his hair style during lockdown?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 19, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			How has Pogba managed his hair style during lockdown?
		
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apart from those that have clippers and those who have a partner who cuts hair. We should now have a nation that’s walking around looking like 70’s porn stars, due to the lockdown.


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## Beezerk (Mar 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Showing your age there 😎
		
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I got into them later in life 👀😄


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## Billysboots (Mar 19, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			How has Pogba managed his hair style during lockdown?
		
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Badly.


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## Orikoru (Mar 19, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			How has Pogba managed his hair style during lockdown?
		
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I said this last time someone asked the same question but footballers basically get what they want. Would not surprise me at all if the clubs got a Covid-tested hairdresser inside the training ground or something.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			I don't think this red card will be appealed!!

View attachment 35691

Click to expand...

Just protecting himself from the keepers knee.


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## Orikoru (Mar 19, 2021)

I've seen that video of that Roofe card now and he's genuinely unlucky, he actually played the ball first but obviously his foot was high and got the worst outcome. Most players would have gone for it though.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I've seen that video of that Roofe card now and he's genuinely unlucky, he actually played the ball first but obviously his foot was high and got the worst outcome. Most players would have gone for it though.
		
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Bit like Manes on Ederson a while back.
Stills can make it look gruesome though. ( great photo).


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 19, 2021)

CL Draw

*Quarter-final draw:*
Manchester City v Borussia Dortmund

Porto v Chelsea

Bayern Munich v Paris St Germain

Real Madrid v Liverpool

*Semi-final draw:*
Bayern Munich or Paris St-Germain v Manchester City or Borussia Dortmund

Real Madrid or Liverpool v Porto or Chelsea

Europa Lge


Granada v MANCHESTER UNITED
ARSENAL v Slavia Prague
Ajax v Roma
Dinamo Zagreb v Villarreal


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## MegaSteve (Mar 19, 2021)

Hopefully The Arsenal can properly up their game for Sunday or I will be having to fend off a lot of calls from The 'Ammers half of the family...


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## fundy (Mar 19, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			Hopefully The Arsenal can properly up their game for Sunday or I will be having to fend off a lot of calls from The 'Ammers half of the family...
		
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turn your phone off


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## Jensen (Mar 19, 2021)

How come Tottenham aren’t in the Europa draw 🙄🙄


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## fundy (Mar 19, 2021)

Jensen said:



			How come Tottenham aren’t in the Europa draw 🙄🙄
		
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wouldve been a great draw too


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## PieMan (Mar 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			CL Draw

*Quarter-final draw:*
Manchester City v Borussia Dortmund

Porto v Chelsea

Bayern Munich v Paris St Germain

Real Madrid v Liverpool

*Semi-final draw:*
Bayern Munich or Paris St-Germain v Manchester City or Borussia Dortmund

Real Madrid or Liverpool v Porto or Chelsea

Europa Lge


Granada v MANCHESTER UNITED
ARSENAL v Slavia Prague
Ajax v Roma
Dinamo Zagreb v Villarreal


Click to expand...

So replay of the 2012 CL Final........ 😉


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2021)

Jensen said:



			How come Tottenham aren’t in the Europa draw 🙄🙄
		
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Mate, you seen this😂😂

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372859826024353793


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 19, 2021)

PieMan said:



			So replay of the 2012 CL Final........ 😉
		
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You wont be that jammy twice.


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## Jensen (Mar 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, you seen this😂😂

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372859826024353793

Click to expand...

So we didn’t win 3-0 then 🤔  That’s the last time I listen to him on Twitter !
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Orikoru (Mar 19, 2021)

Jensen said:



			So we didn’t win 3-0 then 🤔  That’s the last time I listen to him on Twitter !
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Of course we won 3-0 mate. This is just fake news. Roll on the next round. 👍🏻


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## 4LEX (Mar 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Mourinho says his biggest ever success was with Inter. It certainly was an achievement. But when he went nose to nose with City in the prem, his Utd squad was as good as Citys. The main difference was Pep v Mourinho. He just does not get the best out of his players. In fact I would say he has destroyed more players than he developed. I think OGS is the same, he don’t get the best out of players. But he don’t destroy them. For me the managers that get the best are Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Rodgers To name but a few.
I hope Mourinho stays 😉 The fans deserve better though.
		
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I disagree with that mate. Utd's side of 2016-2018 was nowhere near City. Mourinho overachieved with that squad and even now, despite all this talk of progression, Ole won't come close to his points total or trophies.

Spurs are just full of flakes bar the usual names. As soon as one of Kane or Son is out there is nothing else. That said the result last night was absolutely laughable.

City will get done by Bayern in the semi finals in the CL, IMO. Over two legs Bayern will have too much for you. And a Jose masterclass at Wembley for the League Cup


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## 4LEX (Mar 19, 2021)

By the way, great to see the PFA appoint the right man for the job. Journeyman pro, retired early and got a law degree before running a club in Spain. All angles covered


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## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I disagree with that mate. Utd's side of 2016-2018 was nowhere near City. Mourinho overachieved with that squad and even now, despite all this talk of progression, Ole won't come close to his points total or trophies.

Spurs are just full of flakes bar the usual names. As soon as one of Kane or Son is out there is nothing else. That said the result last night was absolutely laughable.

City will get done by Bayern in the semi finals in the CL, IMO. Over two legs Bayern will have too much for you. And a Jose masterclass at Wembley for the League Cup 

Click to expand...

gonna be interesting re the City half of the draw. City’s tight defence against Dortmund’s Haaland and others. If we get past that. The other game PSG Vv Munich is a stonker. PSG have started leaking a few defeats. Come what may good games for the neutrals.


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## Orikoru (Mar 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			gonna be interesting re the City half of the draw. City’s tight defence against Dortmund’s Haaland and others. If we get past that. The other game PSG Vv Munich is a stonker. PSG have started leaking a few defeats. Come what may good games for the neutrals.
		
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I still believe that Stones is an awful defender, he just hasn't had to do any defending for a long time. Someone like Haaland could actually embarrass him.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2021)

Stones was an awful defender when playing alongside Otamendi, when at the side of Kompany he was quite decent, his problem was niggly  injuries. That said Rodri and Gundoghan in front of Dias and Stones and City have a solid base there. I couldn’t imagine me saying that last year.


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## 4LEX (Mar 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			gonna be interesting re the City half of the draw. City’s tight defence against Dortmund’s Haaland and others. If we get past that. The other game PSG Vv Munich is a stonker. PSG have started leaking a few defeats. Come what may good games for the neutrals.
		
Click to expand...

Dortmund are nothing, you'll win that no trouble. Ditto Bayern v PSG. Bayern are over the injury situation and warming up nicely. PSG were lucky not to get knocked out by Barcelona the other week, Poch is having trouble managing some of the egos in the side. Should be some cracking games though!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 20, 2021)




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## SteveW86 (Mar 20, 2021)

Doesn’t look good for Hayden.

Good goal by Brighton, but Newcastle looked like they had lost concentration


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## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2021)

That welbeck looks a tasty prospect at Brighton 😉


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## Jensen (Mar 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			That welbeck looks a tasty prospect at Brighton 😉
		
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Unlike Joelinton.....club record signing!
Makes no effort and has very limited ability


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## 4LEX (Mar 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			That welbeck looks a tasty prospect at Brighton 😉
		
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Almost as good as the Utd wonderkids - Lingard at 28 and Martial 26. Bright prospects for the future for sure.

Steve Bruce.....words fail me how someone so bad can keep getting good jobs. Newcastle are going down unless they wield the axe.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 21, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Unlike Joelinton.....club record signing!
Makes no effort and has* very limited ability*

Click to expand...

I think you are being kind there. The bizarre thing with him is there was nothing in his stats when he signed that suggested he was worth buying. It's a bit reminiscent of a signing from the Dennis Wise era, remember what went on then?


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## MegaSteve (Mar 21, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Almost as good as the Utd wonderkids - Lingard at 28 and Martial 26. Bright prospects for the future for sure.

Steve Bruce.....words fail me how someone so bad can keep getting good jobs. Newcastle are going down unless they wield the axe.
		
Click to expand...


Not quite sure how being a manager at Newcastle, in current times, equates to being a "good job" ...


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 21, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			Not quite sure how being a manager at Newcastle, in current times, equates to being a "good job" ...
		
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It does come with an estimated salary of £2.75m. Not necessarily a good job but it is a good wage. Not sure he has earned it.


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## Trojan615 (Mar 21, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			Not quite sure how being a manager at Newcastle, in current times, equates to being a "good job" ...
		
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and a quick payoff and handshake when Ashley finally sells ....


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## MegaSteve (Mar 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It does come with an estimated salary of £2.75m. Not necessarily a good job but it is a good wage. Not sure he has earned it.
		
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Compared to Jose [for example] that's a menial salary for doing, more or less, the same job...


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 21, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			Compared to Jose [for example] that's a menial salary for doing, more or less, the same job...
		
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I'll have it. It's still a crazy amount of money. We get blinded to figures in football but think about it, it's mad.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll have it. It's still a crazy amount of money. We get blinded to figures in football but think about it, it's mad.
		
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I think we'd all like a slice of the pie that to 'regular' folk is the madness of the prem...


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## Jensen (Mar 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think you are being kind there. The bizarre thing with him is there was nothing in his stats when he signed that suggested he was worth buying. It's a bit reminiscent of a signing from the Dennis Wise era, remember what went on then?
		
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They’ve done a Sunderland, remember the Milton Nunez farce


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## Billysboots (Mar 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			God knows what excuse he can give for this. The players aren't doing it for him. He's got to go. No Champion's League. Sadly I think they'll give him until the League Cup final which is another month away before we get battered in that. He's meant to be this defensive genius of a coach, but he claims it's not his instructions that make us sit back, and we can't defend anyway. Clearly he only achieved his previous defensive records buy bringing in the right personnel. Or if he had the coaching ability, he must not have it anymore. Once we sack him that'll be his career over pretty much. No other bigger club will want him.
		
Click to expand...

The sad thing is that Levy could have prevented this by not appointing Mourinho in the first place - he *must *have known what the outcome would be, because it’s happened time and again.

Mourinho in his day was a fine coach, but an appalling manager. He has no idea how to manage people. Luke Shaw pre-Mourinho was a star in the making. Then Jose threw him under the bus, in public. Along comes Solskjaer, throws an arm around Shaw’s shoulders, and all of a sudden you have the best left back in the country. That one player typifies where Mourinho gets in wrong, and he never learns.

When things start to turn sour at a club, he starts to distance himself from the players, who are always the problem. Never him. He loses every dressing room he works with.

Every football fan could have written the Spurs script. If we could see it, why couldn’t Levy?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The sad thing is that Levy could have prevented this by not appointing Mourinho in the first place - he *must *have known what the outcome would be, because it’s happened time and again.

Mourinho in his day was a fine coach, but an appalling manager. He has no idea how to manage people. Luke Shaw pre-Mourinho was a star in the making. Then Jose threw him under the bus, in public. Along comes Solskjaer, throws an arm around Shaw’s shoulders, and all of a sudden you have the best left back in the country. That one player typifies where Mourinho gets in wrong, and he never learns.

When things start to turn sour at a club, he starts to distance himself from the players, who are always the problem. Never him. He loses every dressing room he works with.

Every football fan could have written the Spurs script. If we could see it, why couldn’t Levy?
		
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Agreed except the left back bit.
Robertson is the best in the country imo.


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## Billysboots (Mar 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agreed except the left back bit.
Robertson is the best in the country imo.
		
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Sorry, I meant English left back 👍


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Sorry, I meant English left back 👍
		
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Yes I agree.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 21, 2021)

Dont forget Mendy 😊


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## AmandaJR (Mar 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Dont forget Mendy 😊
		
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## Orikoru (Mar 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The sad thing is that Levy could have prevented this by not appointing Mourinho in the first place - he *must *have known what the outcome would be, because it’s happened time and again.

Mourinho in his day was a fine coach, but an appalling manager. He has no idea how to manage people. Luke Shaw pre-Mourinho was a star in the making. Then Jose threw him under the bus, in public. Along comes Solskjaer, throws an arm around Shaw’s shoulders, and all of a sudden you have the best left back in the country. That one player typifies where Mourinho gets in wrong, and he never learns.

When things start to turn sour at a club, he starts to distance himself from the players, who are always the problem. Never him. He loses every dressing room he works with.

Every football fan could have written the Spurs script. If we could see it, why couldn’t Levy?
		
Click to expand...

My theory is just that he's too stubborn to change his style based on the players he had. He got this reputation as a brilliant defensive manager who wins 1-0 all the time, but he was always able to build on players like Carvalho, John Terry, Makelele. You can't rely on clean sheets when you have Davinson Sanchez, Eric Dier, Serge Aurier... But it's like José's mindset is "my approach works and it will again". If we'd have bought some top centre back for him it might have been better, but we're not a club that can throw money around like his previous ones. It's just a mismatch of club and manager I think, and he's past the point of no return. We have a superb attack but they know they have to score 2 or 3 off about 5 chances at times to win a game and it's not sustainable.

You can argue the man management thing, but then I think Dele deserved to be out in the cold because he was pants for the previous year, plus easing in Bale slowing actually seemed to work as he suddenly hit some form. So I'm not sure if any players can feel hard done by in that respect. I just think it's too much to expect this defence to keep clean sheets, and the forwards to score 70% of their chances, and they're all jaded because of it.


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## Billysboots (Mar 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			My theory is just that he's too stubborn to change his style based on the players he had. He got this reputation as a brilliant defensive manager who wins 1-0 all the time, but he was always able to build on players like Carvalho, John Terry, Makelele. You can't rely on clean sheets when you have Davinson Sanchez, Eric Dier, Serge Aurier... But it's like José's mindset is "my approach works and it will again". If we'd have bought some top centre back for him it might have been better, but we're not a club that can throw money around like his previous ones. It's just a mismatch of club and manager I think, and he's past the point of no return. We have a superb attack but they know they have to score 2 or 3 off about 5 chances at times to win a game and it's not sustainable.

You can argue the man management thing, but then I think Dele deserved to be out in the cold because he was pants for the previous year, plus easing in Bale slowing actually seemed to work as he suddenly hit some form. So I'm not sure if any players can feel hard done by in that respect. I just think it's too much to expect this defence to keep clean sheets, and the forwards to score 70% of their chances, and they're all jaded because of it.
		
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Some really good points. On the man management issue, I really do dislike it when Mourinho lays into his players in public. Don’t get me wrong, some may react positively to it, but certainly not all. I cited Luke Shaw as an example but there are certainly others.

Anyone who has ever managed a team of any sort knows that, routinely, you just don’t do it.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 21, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			Not quite sure how being a manager at Newcastle, in current times, equates to being a "good job" ...
		
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Early retirement / redundancy package?


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## Jensen (Mar 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The sad thing is that Levy could have prevented this by not appointing Mourinho in the first place - he *must *have known what the outcome would be, because it’s happened time and again.

Mourinho in his day was a fine coach, but an appalling manager. He has no idea how to manage people. Luke Shaw pre-Mourinho was a star in the making. Then Jose threw him under the bus, in public. Along comes Solskjaer, throws an arm around Shaw’s shoulders, and all of a sudden you have the best left back in the country. That one player typifies where Mourinho gets in wrong, and he never learns.

When things start to turn sour at a club, he starts to distance himself from the players, who are always the problem. Never him. He loses every dressing room he works with.

Every football fan could have written the Spurs script. If we could see it, why couldn’t Levy?
		
Click to expand...

Fantastic post, bang on the best I have read in a long, long tine


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## MegaSteve (Mar 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Early retirement / redundancy package?
		
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I get it that compared to 'normal' employment management in football is an easy gig...
Which is why so many old school managers hang on way past their sell by date...
Not sure, aside from the obvious remuneration benefits, having Ashley as a boss is that great a gig...


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

Rumour has it Mourinho will get 25m when Spurs sack him. He must have made 100m plus, probably nearer 150m by being sacked. Nice work if you can get it.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 21, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Rumour has it Mourinho will get 25m when Spurs sack him. He must have made 100m plus, probably nearer 150m by being sacked. Nice work if you can get it.
		
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Getting paid whilst failing is not an experience the vast majority of us will get to enjoy...


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## Steve Wilkes (Mar 21, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Fantastic post, bang on the best I have read in a long, long tine
		
Click to expand...




Billysboots said:



			The sad thing is that Levy could have prevented this by not appointing Mourinho in the first place - he *must *have known what the outcome would be, because it’s happened time and again.

Mourinho in his day was a fine coach, but an appalling manager. He has no idea how to manage people. Luke Shaw pre-Mourinho was a star in the making. Then Jose threw him under the bus, in public. Along comes Solskjaer, throws an arm around Shaw’s shoulders, and all of a sudden you have the best left back in the country. That one player typifies where Mourinho gets in wrong, and he never learns.

When things start to turn sour at a club, he starts to distance himself from the players, who are always the problem. Never him. He loses every dressing room he works with.

Every football fan could have written the Spurs script. If we could see it, why couldn’t Levy?
		
Click to expand...

But who do you appoint, who's going to be a sure fire winner?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			My theory is just that he's too stubborn to change his style based on the players he had. He got this reputation as a brilliant defensive manager who wins 1-0 all the time, but he was always able to build on players like Carvalho, John Terry, Makelele. You can't rely on clean sheets when you have Davinson Sanchez, Eric Dier, Serge Aurier... But it's like José's mindset is "my approach works and it will again". If we'd have bought some top centre back for him it might have been better, but we're not a club that can throw money around like his previous ones. It's just a mismatch of club and manager I think, and he's past the point of no return. We have a superb attack but they know they have to score 2 or 3 off about 5 chances at times to win a game and it's not sustainable.

You can argue the man management thing, but then I think Dele deserved to be out in the cold because he was pants for the previous year, plus easing in Bale slowing actually seemed to work as he suddenly hit some form. So I'm not sure if any players can feel hard done by in that respect. I just think it's too much to expect this defence to keep clean sheets, and the forwards to score 70% of their chances, and they're all jaded because of it.
		
Click to expand...

When he first went to Chelsea they scored for fun tho? Robben, duff, j Cole feeding drogba and lampard just banging them in


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## Orikoru (Mar 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			When he first went to Chelsea they scored for fun tho? Robben, duff, j Cole feeding drogba and lampard just banging them in
		
Click to expand...

We do that occasionally! Proper Jekyll & Hyde. We smashed United 6-1, seems like a lifetime ago but was in fact only 5 months back.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

Really looking forward to the game this afternoon now 

Noble bench. (Always a positive) but benrahma given a start 

The 4 attacking players of lingard, Bowen, benrahma and Antonio

I reckon we might get a pen today . Very fast tricky players


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Really looking forward to the game this afternoon now

Noble bench. (Always a positive) but benrahma given a start

The 4 attacking players of lingard, Bowen, benrahma and Antonio

I reckon we might get a pen today . Very fast tricky players
		
Click to expand...

If Luiz is playing, it's a certainty.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			If Luiz is playing, it's a certainty.
		
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Lol maybe tricky players plus clumsy defender will cancel each other out today


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## Tashyboy (Mar 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			My theory is just that he's too stubborn to change his style based on the players he had. He got this reputation as a brilliant defensive manager who wins 1-0 all the time, but he was always able to build on players like Carvalho, John Terry, Makelele. You can't rely on clean sheets when you have Davinson Sanchez, Eric Dier, Serge Aurier... But it's like José's mindset is "my approach works and it will again". If we'd have bought some top centre back for him it might have been better, but we're not a club that can throw money around like his previous ones. It's just a mismatch of club and manager I think, and he's past the point of no return. We have a superb attack but they know they have to score 2 or 3 off about 5 chances at times to win a game and it's not sustainable.

You can argue the man management thing, but then I think Dele deserved to be out in the cold because he was pants for the previous year, plus easing in Bale slowing actually seemed to work as he suddenly hit some form. So I'm not sure if any players can feel hard done by in that respect. I just think it's too much to expect this defence to keep clean sheets, and the forwards to score 70% of their chances, and they're all jaded because of it.
		
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The thing is though with the players Jose has, he knew what he was coming to, he knew the players that were there and must of convinced Levy he could get the best out of them. They say the league table never lies, yet Spurs are a point behind Liverpool.
How many times have we heard anyone could manage a team full of stars. Pochotino looks a genius at the side of Mourinho. If Delli is not on top of his game it is up to Mourinho to get the best out of him. Look at Luke Shaw now. Same person,different player.
My fear for Spurs is if they are not in Europe next season Kane says “ am off”. That aside I have a feeling the transfer market will be very interesting with the comings and going’s. Lastly Rafa Benitez has said he would like to come back to the Prem ASAP 🤔 Keep your eye on that on Spuds fans.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

Great start, keep this up


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

This is going to be a gubbing.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			This is going to be a gubbing.
		
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I hope so. Nothing against you but I really want to beat someone comprehensively .  The team is playing well


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			This is going to be a gubbing.
		
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Great goal from you guys. Their saying own goal but still


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## Billysboots (Mar 21, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			But who do you appoint, who's going to be a sure fire winner?
		
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That’s the million dollar question. But such is the pattern of behaviour with Mourinho I remain stunned that Levy hired him.


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

Luiz was at fault for two of the goals, and Tierney didn't help himself with the other one. West Ham playing well though for the first 30.


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## fundy (Mar 21, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Luiz was at fault for two of the goals, and Tierney didn't help himself with the other one. West Ham playing well though for the first 30.
		
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Truly awful defense (selection and performance)

Chambers was only about 20 yards out of position for the 2nd one too, Luiz and Mari just not a pairing I want to see and Xhaka jogging about without a care in the world

On the plus side it didnt come as a shock 

West Ham been good, if they have any sense theyll realise to keep attacking our soft underbelly rather than trying to sit on their lead, if they dont then it could get interesting


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

So a WH player elbows Partey in the face, and the WH player gets the free kick? Baffles me. Really does.


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## Fade and Die (Mar 21, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			So a WH player elbows Partey in the face, and the WH player gets the free kick? Baffles me. Really does.
		
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Because he didn’t elbow him maybe?....Don’t worry John Miss won’t let you down.


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## Fade and Die (Mar 21, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Because he didn’t elbow him maybe?....Don’t worry John Miss won’t let you down.
		
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Lol... See!


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

Wow what a turn around .. 4-3 to arsenal I say


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## Fade and Die (Mar 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Wow what a turn around .. 4-3 to arsenal I say
		
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I wanted him to bring on fresh meat not knacker meat! 🐴


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			I wanted him to bring on fresh meat not knacker meat! 🐴
		
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We will prob lose now he on. For crying out loud


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

Hello.


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

Auba has been rubbish again today.


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

Not sure what to make of that really.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 21, 2021)

Great for the neutral, mad for a supporter.


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## AmandaJR (Mar 21, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Auba has been rubbish again today.
		
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Yep. Got himself in on the goal celebrations though


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Auba has been rubbish again today.
		
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He's awful at times 

Lacca what a game 

Chambers defo man of match


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## Orikoru (Mar 21, 2021)

Was considering not watching that since I hate both of the teams, but glad I did, what a match! Maybe best of the season. Chambers man of the match as well, who'd have thought it??


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## Fade and Die (Mar 21, 2021)

Two own goals, a terrible referee and Arsenal players diving around all over the place. Suppose I’ve gotta be relieved with a draw.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Was considering not watching that since I hate both of the teams, but glad I did, what a match! Maybe best of the season. Chambers man of the match as well, who'd have thought it??
		
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Chambers was class with his crosses. Wow 

And again lingard goal and assist 

Can you see now why he's been recalled?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Chambers was class with his crosses. Wow

And again lingard goal and assist

Can you see now why he's been recalled?
		
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It’s good to see Southgate calling players in who are in form.
Makes a change from the norm .
Players get their places based on previous games.


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## fundy (Mar 21, 2021)

Pretty sure well be the happier with the point, despite how utterly horrific we were for the first 30 minutes. Moyes missed a trick sitting deeper and deeper rather than killing us off imo

Same old for us, some positives, some negatives, mainly the same ones as usual too


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## fundy (Mar 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Was considering not watching that since I hate both of the teams, but glad I did, what a match! Maybe best of the season. Chambers man of the match as well, who'd have thought it??
		
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MOTM to the comms on sky, look on ratings sites and he was somewhere between 8th and 10th best player on the pitch

Lingaard, Lacazette, Odegaard all far far better on the day


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			Pretty sure well be the happier with the point, despite how utterly horrific we were for the first 30 minutes. Moyes missed a trick sitting deeper and deeper rather than killing us off imo

Same old for us, some positives, some negatives, mainly the same ones as usual too
		
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Before the game I'd of taken a draw but after 20 mins no I am disappointed

However to see how far we have come that we are disappointed with a draw against arsenal 

Hit the post and that rice chance 

Proper good game 

Least it wasn't boring


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 21, 2021)

How often in the PL does a team score 5 goals and not win? 😂


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

drive4show said:



			How often in the PL does a team score 5 goals and not win? 😂
		
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Least arsenal managed to score one goal by themsleves we thought we had to do all the work!

Not good for Dawson.. 2 own goals in 2 weeks lol


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Least arsenal managed to score one goal by themsleves we thought we had to do all the work!

Not good for Dawson.. 2 own goals in 2 weeks lol
		
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Not sure what he could have done for one of them.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 21, 2021)

xxx


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Not sure what he could have done for one of them.
		
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Today? Yeah defo if he left it was a tap in wasn't it ?

Great game 

Wolves next, I hoping ogbonna and masauku are back after the international and fornals 

Because cresswell great going forward.. awful defending


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## Slime (Mar 21, 2021)

That is soooooo Fred.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 21, 2021)

Slime said:



			That is soooooo Fred.
		
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He really shouldn’t be giving it him there though.
Keeper should have gone with his hands and spread himself ,bit easy to get around him .


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## Slime (Mar 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He really shouldn’t be giving it him there though.
Keeper should have gone with his hands and spread himself ,bit easy to get around him .
		
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I can't argue with that, but Fred's passing is woeful and there was no excuse for doing what he did.


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## pendodave (Mar 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Chambers was class with his crosses.
		
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He's really good at this.
I wandered into an Arsenal league cup game a couple of years ago on the way home (against Forest) and he was playing right back. Martinelli (I think) scored a great header, but it was all made by the power and 'flatness' of Chambers' cross. I noticed the other day that he was still at it.
I'd rather he hadn't today mind...


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## Tashyboy (Mar 21, 2021)

Good job Utd brought the big guns on, otherwise Leicester could of had four.


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## GG26 (Mar 21, 2021)

😀 What a great performance boys!!


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## Jensen (Mar 21, 2021)

That’s a genius by Kane to win that penalty. To have that speed of thought and to gamble like that takes some front 😄


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## fundy (Mar 21, 2021)

Jensen said:



			That’s a genius by Kane to win that penalty. To have that speed of thought and to gamble like that takes some front 😄
		
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"win" the penalty, genius or just cheating?

balls going out of play, defender tries to block a cross and Kane dives in front of him, screams then holds where he wasnt even kicked, not surprisingly up and fine 30 seconds later


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

Kate is a cheat, a coward, and a despicable individual.

Good striker though. Can't deny that.


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## Orikoru (Mar 21, 2021)

Jensen said:



			That’s a genius by Kane to win that penalty. To have that speed of thought and to gamble like that takes some front 😄
		
Click to expand...

Not a dive is it? The full back goes sliding in like a maniac and Kane thinks, ok, well if he's going to do that I might as well take the hit and go down rather than trying to stab an aimless cross into the box. As always if you dive in stupidly there's a good chance you get punished.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Not a dive is it? The full back goes sliding in like a maniac and Kane thinks, ok, well if he's going to do that I might as well take the hit and go down rather than trying to stab an aimless cross into the box. As always if you dive in stupidly there's a good chance you get punished.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373741390329430021
Why is he holding his shin ?


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2021)

See post 7043.


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## Orikoru (Mar 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373741390329430021
Why is he holding his shin ?
		
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Eh? The contact was on the side of his shin and that's where he's holding it? Obviously he's exaggerating how much pain he's in to make sure the referee is aware there was contact - this is Mike Dean we're talking about so you have to make sure. Every player does that, the same as every defender throws his arms up in 'innocence' when he's just booted somebody.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 21, 2021)

So Kane steps over the ball, has no intention of playing the ball which has run out of play. Instigates contact and that’s a clever penalty. Nope, that’s grade one cheating. Ave seen Sterling fall over enough time To know the difference. If Kane had tried to get past with the ball I could understand it being a penalty. But in this instance that’s rammel. Do I blame him, partly, but there’s an official that should of looked at the screen and gave a goal kick. All the ref has done is encourage Kane. He is as much to blame.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Eh? The contact was on the side of his shin and that's where he's holding it? Obviously he's exaggerating how much pain he's in to make sure the referee is aware there was contact - this is Mike Dean we're talking about so you have to make sure. Every player does that, the same as every defender throws his arms up in 'innocence' when he's just booted somebody.
		
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Sorry but your just defending conning the ref, admit it kane cheats as bad as the rest 

He's a less in your face grealish because he doesn't play up to it but dives just as much


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## Orikoru (Mar 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			So Kane steps over the ball, has no intention of playing the ball which has run out of play. Instigates contact and that’s a clever penalty. Nope, that’s grade one cheating. Ave seen Sterling fall over enough time To know the difference. If Kane had tried to get past with the ball I could understand it being a penalty. But in this instance that’s rammel. Do I blame him, partly, but there’s an official that should of looked at the screen and gave a goal kick. All the ref has done is encourage Kane. He is as much to blame.
		
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Actually to be fair I gave him a little too much credit in my earlier post - when I saw it again I believe he was trying the little Cruyff chop-back with his left heel but actually misses the ball and is very lucky that Cash came flying in to spare his blushes by catching him. Having messed up the skill then yes he's going to grab that opportunity to take the foul with both hands, all day every day.

Just because the ball would have gone for a goal kick doesn't mean it's not a foul. If Kane had a shot, put it into row Z, and then the goalkeeper clotheslines him, that would still be a penalty wouldn't it?


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## Orikoru (Mar 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Sorry but your just defending conning the ref, admit it kane cheats as bad as the rest

He's a less in your face grealish because he doesn't play up to it but dives just as much
		
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I don't see it as cheating at all. It's not the 1980s anymore like some people on here seem to think. If a defender makes a daft tackle then forward is probably going to take the opportunity to go down, unless he had a very very good chance of scoring otherwise. That's just how it is.

For me a dive is when there is no contact or attempt from the defender at all and the player just throws himself down under his own steam. Very different.

It is a bit tiresome that we all have to do this dance every single time Spurs get a penalty to be honest. That one today was practically stonewall for God's sake.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't see it as cheating at all. It's not the 1980s anymore like some people on here seem to think. If a defender makes a daft tackle then forward is probably going to take the opportunity to go down, unless he had a very very good chance of scoring otherwise. That's just how it is.

For me a dive is when there is no contact or attempt from the defender at all and the player just throws himself down under his own steam. Very different.

It is a bit tiresome that we all have to do this dance every single time Spurs get a penalty to be honest. That one today was practically stonewall for God's sake.
		
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It's wrong that it's even accepted as part of the game 

It's cheating plain and simple 

Just like when he backs into players to get the free kick

Clever but dangerous


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Eh? *The contact was on the side of his shin and that's where he's holding it? *Obviously he's exaggerating how much pain he's in to make sure the referee is aware there was contact - this is Mike Dean we're talking about so you have to make sure. Every player does that, the same as every defender throws his arms up in 'innocence' when he's just booted somebody.
		
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Was the contact where he was holding ?

The ball is out of play before contact as well



If it wasn’t the England captain the reaction would be hugely different

It’s the same with this 



How did he get away with it


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## Orikoru (Mar 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was the contact where he was holding ?

The ball is out of play before contact as well

View attachment 35756

If it wasn’t the England captain the reaction would be hugely different

It’s the same with this

View attachment 35757

How did he get away with it
		
Click to expand...

You've stopped the video in the wrong place so that's useless.

Here you go.. Cash's shin/knee on the side of Kane's shin.





There is no debate about the contact so I don't even know why you're barking up that tree.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You've stopped the video in the wrong place so that's useless.

Here you go.. Cash's shin/knee on the side of Kane's shin.

View attachment 35758



There is no debate about the contact so I don't even know why you're barking up that tree.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373751938454540296
Enough said really

He knows his stuff more than any of us and one of your own


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

Really? Half the time people slate Lineker for talking rubbish but now he "knows his stuff" all of a sudden? 

We were lucky to get the pen but it was down to Cash making a silly mistake, diving in and caught him, it was a penalty. That's all there is to it.

I can't wait for the day we get a penalty that nobody takes issue with. I wonder if it will happen in my lifetime.


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## Jack_bfc (Mar 22, 2021)

It was definitely a foul in the penalty box, therefore a penalty.

I have always had issues with fouls committed after the ball has gone on to be obviously going out, or the player would never have a chance of getting it with or without the foul..

In my opinion it shouldn't be given, but the laws say it should so it was...


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

Jack_bfc said:



			It was definitely a foul in the penalty box, therefore a penalty.

I have always had issues with fouls committed after the ball has gone on to be obviously going out, or the player would never have a chance of getting it with or without the foul..

In my opinion it shouldn't be given, but the laws say it should so it was...
		
Click to expand...

In fairness that just makes it even more silly to dive in from the defender!


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 22, 2021)

Defender goes to block the cross but dosnt get the ball.
He catches Kane !
That’s a pen imo.
Clever ,Cute call it what you like but it’s a foul.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You've stopped the video in the wrong place so that's useless.

Here you go.. Cash's shin/knee on the side of Kane's shin.


That is a shocking angle to try to prove a point and emphasises why it should of gone to VAR. Matty Cash tracks back and slides in to block Kane going across him. Kane for whatever reason leaves the ball and flicks his right leg out in an unnatural movement to instigate contact. 

View attachment 35758



There is no debate about the contact so I don't even know why you're barking up that tree.
		
Click to expand...


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## Tashyboy (Mar 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			In fairness that just makes it even more silly to dive in from the defender!
		
Click to expand...

Am scratching my head at that comment. Kane could of kept the ball in, with his skill he could of done it with his eyes shut. How did Matt Cash know Kane would not keep the ball in. He slid in to stop Kane crossing it. If Cash don’t slide in he is getting a rollicking from the manager for not trying to block the cross.


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Defender goes to block the cross but dosnt get the ball.
He catches Kane !
That’s a pen imo.
Clever ,Cute call it what you like but it’s a foul.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed - it's similar to last week against Arsenal where Lacazette had a swipe and missed the ball while Sanchez dived in to block and ended up making contact. On both occasions it's lucky for the forward, but ultimately diving in and making contact makes it a foul.

@Tashyboy - "for whatever reason" = he was trying to do a Cruyff turn / heel chop thing but missed the ball, pretty much. To do that skill you must plant your foot in front of the ball obviously. I have no doubt that he only went to this move because he saw Cash diving to ground early. Still a penalty though, poor decision from Cash.


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am scratching my head at that comment. Kane could of kept the ball in, with his skill he could of done it with his eyes shut. How did Matt Cash know Kane would not keep the ball in. He slid in to stop Kane crossing it. If Cash don’t slide in he is getting a rollicking from the manager for not trying to block the cross.
		
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If you go to ground in the box you have to make damn sure that you win the ball cleanly these days. He's dived in too early, early enough that Kane was able to see it and still attempt the chop back. Let's say if he hadn't have caught Kane's leg, he still would have been nowhere near the ball and out of the game. If you slide in to make a block - you have to time it properly and actually make a block. In this scenario there wasn't a block to make as Kane never crossed it in the end.


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## garyinderry (Mar 22, 2021)

I do think kane was attempting the chop back trick. 

Had he pulled it off the defender was completely out of the game and kane in a fantastic position. 

As much as I think kane is a sneaky sod in general. This is a penalty all day long.


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## SteveW86 (Mar 22, 2021)

Oh come on, whatever Kane is doing its quite clear to see that the Villa player slides in and makes contact with Kane and is nowhere near the ball. I think the camera angle from behind the goal shows this the best.

Unfotunately we have a never ending circle with this discussion. For it to stop the refs need to award a penalty if the player stays on their feet (but there has been a foul), and "play acting" needs to be given a yellow card. I dont think giving a penalty and a yellow will work because the players wont care about the yellow.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 22, 2021)

If you think about it.
If a player dummies the ball and just lets it run past him , if he is caught by the defender it’s still a foul.
That’s basically what Kane did but just not on purpose as what he was trying didn’t come off.
The defender made contact and Kane went down.
It’s up to the ref then if it’s enough for a pen ,I think he got it correct.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you think about it.
If a player dummies the ball and just lets it run past him , if he is caught by the defender it’s still a foul.
That’s basically what Kane did but just not on purpose as what he was trying didn’t come off.
The defender made contact and Kane went down.
It’s up to the ref then if it’s enough for a pen ,I think he got it correct.
		
Click to expand...

I've only watched each angle once and was via twitter, and was "primed" due to the hoohar, but on 1 look at each angle I also seen it as instigated by Kane who moved his foot onto the defenders (already sliding leg).

I didnt consider the Cruyff turn chop, so will look again, but from my minds eye, so far, Harry was instigating the contact.


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## DanFST (Mar 22, 2021)

Never a pen, Kane never touched the ball, and its 2 metres behind him.

Precedent has been set. If I'm a manager and someone slides in the box. My players must run into the defender, regardless if they have the ball or not. If a defender trips in a corner, my players must bundle over him and ignore the ball.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 22, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I've only watched each angle once and was via twitter, and was "primed" due to the hoohar, but on 1 look at each angle I also seen it as instigated by Kane who moved his foot onto the defenders (already sliding leg).

I didnt consider the Cruyff turn chop, so will look again, but from my minds eye, so far, Harry was instigating the contact.
		
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Well I was a CH and hate strikers who go down screaming and clutching their other leg.
Kane has a reputation for going down easy.
But in this case I think it’s a badly timed challenge and he catches him with his trailing leg.
Kane is like other divers ,even when he gets a genuine pen people think it’s his own doing .
At the end of the day the ref and VAR are always right.


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



*Never a pen, Kane never touched the ball, and its 2 metres behind him.*

Precedent has been set. If I'm a manager and someone slides in the box. My players must run into the defender, regardless if they have the ball or not. If a defender trips in a corner, my players must bundle over him and ignore the ball.
		
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Your statement in bold means absolutely nothing. If the ball was 40 yards away from Kane and a defender tripped him in the box it would still be a penalty.


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## GreiginFife (Mar 22, 2021)

When this is given as a penalty, you know the game's gone. Striker misses the ball completely, THEN collides with Ter Stegen and gets a VAR confirmed pen. Heads gone moment.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 22, 2021)

Villa... boys.. we started so well 

Still incredible improvement this year from last.

Grealish is without a doubt a top 3 premier league player now, we miss him too much but anyone would - he's that good. 

Disappinted Konsa isnt playing for England yet.. how Mings gets selected over him I really really dont know.


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## Kellfire (Mar 22, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			When this is given as a penalty, you know the game's gone. Striker misses the ball completely, THEN collides with Ter Stegen and gets a VAR confirmed pen. Heads gone moment.







Click to expand...

That’s stonewall, as was Kane’s. It doesn’t even matter if contact is made - Ter Stegen doesn’t get the ball and forces the striker into avoiding him or clattering him ergo it’s a penalty.


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## GreiginFife (Mar 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			That’s stonewall, as was Kane’s. It doesn’t even matter if contact is made - Ter Stegen doesn’t get the ball and forces the striker into avoiding him or clattering him ergo it’s a penalty.
		
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All after the ball has been missed completely. Stegen's activity did not influence the striker missing the ball at the time he missed it. 

You have your view, I have mine.


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## Kellfire (Mar 22, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			All after the ball has been missed completely. Stegen's activity did not influence the striker missing the ball at the time he missed it.

You have your view, I have mine.
		
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You can’t just smack into someone or make an opponent think you’re going to and say it’s ok because the ball isn’t there.


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			All after the ball has been missed completely. Stegen's activity did not influence the striker missing the ball at the time he missed it.

You have your view, I have mine.
		
Click to expand...

The difference is your view has no basis in the laws of football.




*Direct free kick*

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:


charges
jumps at
kicks or attempts to kick
pushes
strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
tackles or challenges
trips or attempts to trip

If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.


Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed


Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned


Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:


a handball offence (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
holds an opponent
impedes an opponent with contact


Click to expand...

Just as Kellfire stated, the whereabouts of the ball aren't relevant and it even clarifies 'attempts to' trip so there doesn't have to be contact.


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## DanFST (Mar 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Your statement in bold means absolutely nothing. If the ball was 40 yards away from Kane and a defender tripped him in the box it would still be a penalty.
		
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It does, If you've played the game. 

It must be clear an obvious who initiated the contact. With precedents like this, I can block the goalie on a corner, if he touches me in the slightest (a la ter stegen above) It must be an instant pen.


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			It does, If you've played the game.

It must be clear an obvious who initiated the contact. With precedents like this, I can block the goalie on a corner, if he touches me in the slightest (a la ter stegen above) It must be an instant pen.
		
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I play the game every Sunday but thanks for that. 😂

I think Cash clearly initiated contact by sliding in from 5 yards away, personally.


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## DanFST (Mar 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I play the game every Sunday but thanks for that. 😂

I think Cash clearly initiated contact by sliding in from 5 yards away, personally.
		
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Apologies, I meant to a high standard.

I get see that, It's one thing players leaving their leg out when on the ball and getting tapped (tho i hate it), Kane completely disregarded the ball leaving it behind him and went towards the defender who was sliding to block a cross. Common sense would indicate that play hasn't been affected and there was no malicious intent from either party. Just play on. 

Problem again stems from the FA, they aren't football people. The referee's aren't football people and those in VAR also aren't football people. Should it be a pen? No way. Do I blame Kane for trying this? No way. The game is in such a horrible state, players get crucified if they don't take every advantage they can get. As such, it's painful to watch most of the time.


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## Kellfire (Mar 22, 2021)

Kane just missed the ball and got fouled. He’s a master of the dark arts but in this incident he did nothing wrong.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Kane just missed the ball and got fouled. He’s a master of the dark arts but in this incident he did nothing wrong.
		
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Yep. I'm not sure whether or not some posters have ever played football, because some sure sound like they haven't.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well I was a CH and hate strikers who go down screaming and clutching their other leg.
Kane has a reputation for going down easy.
But in this case I think it’s a badly timed challenge and he catches him with his trailing leg.
Kane is like other divers ,even when he gets a genuine pen people think it’s his own doing .
At the end of the day the ref and VAR are always right.

Click to expand...

Well I was a centre half as well, Liverpool business houses 1st division......as well as lower down.


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## DanFST (Mar 22, 2021)

His back to the ball, looking directly at Cash who's about to make contact. 100% sure he didn't initiate contact? Are you happy that's been given? If so I genuinely worry for the game. Were you livid when Lucas was so harshly struck down by comparison for the assist on the 1st? I didn't see any advantage.






I should be livid Bowen had a shot here the at near post, he should have stopped the ball, ran past it and into the defender.





Just because a defender goes to ground doesn't make it dangerous, or a foul.


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Apologies, I meant to a high standard.

I get see that, It's one thing players leaving their leg out when on the ball and getting tapped (tho i hate it), Kane completely disregarded the ball leaving it behind him and went towards the defender who was sliding to block a cross. Common sense would indicate that play hasn't been affected and there was no malicious intent from either party. Just play on.

Problem again stems from the FA, they aren't football people. The referee's aren't football people and those in VAR also aren't football people. Should it be a pen? No way. Do I blame Kane for trying this? No way. The game is in such a horrible state, players get crucified if they don't take every advantage they can get. As such, it's painful to watch most of the time.
		
Click to expand...

No, common sense would look at the footage and see that Kane was attempting a Cruyff turn with his left heel but made a hash of it and missed the ball - then luckily got fouled to spare his blushes. Of course it should be a penalty, he's fouled the player!


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## pauljames87 (Mar 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			No, common sense would look at the footage and see that Kane was attempting a Cruyff turn with his left heel but made a hash of it and missed the ball - then luckily got fouled to spare his blushes. Of course it should be a penalty, he's fouled the player!
		
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Lol cruyff turn 

Tbh just looks like he got his feet arse about face and lost control the ball.. didn't look like he was attempting to be skillful.


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lol cruyff turn

Tbh just looks like he got his feet arse about face and lost control the ball.. didn't look like he was attempting to be skillful.
		
Click to expand...

I said he got it wrong, but it's obvious what he was trying to do. Watch it again, he just misses the ball with his left heel.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I said he got it wrong, but it's obvious what he was trying to do. Watch it again, he just misses the ball with his left heel.
		
Click to expand...

Think your looking for something to justify your ends tbh


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Think your looking for something to justify your ends tbh
		
Click to expand...

If you can't see what's right in front of you then you're the one who looking for what they want to see. I can't make it any plainer than what's clearly in the video.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If you can't see what's right in front of you then you're the one who looking for what they want to see. I can't make it any plainer than what's clearly in the video.
		
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All kane was attempting in that video was making sure contact was made with him. The ball had gone he knew it, he played for a pen. No turn.


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			All kane was attempting in that video was making sure contact was made with him. The ball had gone he knew it, he played for a pen. No turn.
		
Click to expand...

Even if he had done that, I'd still be defending him as I don't think there's anything wrong with that either. But on this occasion that isn't what happened.


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## Steve Wilkes (Mar 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			All kane was attempting in that video was making sure contact was made with him. The ball had gone he knew it, he played for a pen. No turn.
		
Click to expand...




Orikoru said:



			Even if he had done that, I'd still be defending him as I don't think there's anything wrong with that either. But on this occasion that isn't what happened.
		
Click to expand...

This is why VAR doesn't work, what is plain and obvious to one is the complete opposite to someone else


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## Orikoru (Mar 22, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			This is why VAR doesn't work, what is plain and obvious to one is the complete opposite to someone else
		
Click to expand...

Well it depends what spectacles you've got on I suppose! But no, you are right, VAR doesn't take away difference of opinion, it just gives them a better look at it. But there are plenty of other reasons it hasn't worked that we've already gone into before.


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## Kellfire (Mar 23, 2021)

Rumours Scholes will have this red card rescinded because he didn’t make contact. Harry Kane is acting as his character witness in a tribunal to establish his innocence.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 23, 2021)

Kellfire said:








Rumours Scholes will have this red card rescinded because he didn’t make contact. Harry Kane is acting as his character witness in a tribunal to establish his innocence.
		
Click to expand...

That reminds me of when Tiger delibaretly missed in the masters.
He pulled his punch no dought.
I do remember him saying it was only a joke, but was sent for the intent.
But plenty didn’t belive tiger


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well I was a centre half as well, Liverpool business houses 1st division......as well as lower down. 

Click to expand...

Bootle joc.
Liverpool league.
County com.
Good old days.

But if players then went down screaming they would get laughed at.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 24, 2021)

Jose considering signing Evergreen to patch up the Spurs defence 😂😎


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 25, 2021)

Remember when people use to say,
nothing got said when Kane went down easy because he’s English? 😂


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## Pathetic Shark (Mar 25, 2021)

The Premier League needs to bring in Tim Peel to referee their games.  He's the NHL referee who has just been suspended (ie: sacked) for a game Tuesday night when he was caught saying on camera during the game that he wanted to call a penalty on Nashville at some point in the game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2021)

Pathetic Shark said:



			The Premier League needs to bring in Tim Peel to referee their games.  He's the NHL referee who has just been suspended (ie: sacked) for a game Tuesday night when he was caught saying on camera during the game that he wanted to call a penalty on Nashville at some point in the game.
		
Click to expand...

Didn't he say he wanted to do it early? I was told that was encouraged in training by an international level hockey umpire a good few years ago. It set the authority of the official, a bit like a defender going in hard, making the keeper make a save etc. It's a non story the press are trying to make into a story, unless you know more........


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## hairball_89 (Mar 25, 2021)

Any Sheffield United fans on here? This interview with the owner is intriguing!

Taking a lot of what he says at face value, he seems pretty fair... But then how much of it is bluster to save face?! Always thought Wilder was "one of the good guys" but it's safe to say his well publicised push to have more control over transfers, and then the subsequent results of said transfers has definitely backfired. Brewster is the obvious one, but the keeper doesn't look like the best outlay either!


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## Pathetic Shark (Mar 25, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Didn't he say he wanted to do it early? I was told that was encouraged in training by an international level hockey umpire a good few years ago. It set the authority of the official, a bit like a defender going in hard, making the keeper make a save etc. It's a non story the press are trying to make into a story, unless you know more........
		
Click to expand...

Exactly - it's game management - you sometimes give a couple of free kicks or a yellow card to set the tone for the match.  Or clamp down on something early to let the players know it is not acceptable in that game.
Hockey has a problem in that when you get late in a game or in overtime in the playoffs, referees put their whistles away and you can almost mug someone with a crowbar and get away with it.
This ref in question was notoriously crap and was in his final season before retiring.  He got caught saying something that every ref probably says 40 times a season and the league threw him under the bus over it.


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## Slime (Mar 25, 2021)

Sterling .................... he just can't see the bigger picture.
Someone should tell him it's a team game!


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## Beezerk (Mar 25, 2021)

Slime said:



			Sterling .................... he just can't see the bigger picture.
Someone should tell him it's a team game!
		
Click to expand...

I hate the games against really poor teams, shows up exactly who the self obsessed posers are.


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## 4LEX (Mar 25, 2021)

Huge England fan who goes to all the games usually but tonight summed up Southgate.

Why play a holding midfielder against a team where you'll have 80% of the ball? He's so negative and throwing caps around like confetti. He cost England the World Cup in 2018 and he'll do the same in the Euros when push comes to shove and it's decided on tactical acumen.

The only bright spots tonight were Bellingham and Foden. The rest absolute garbage.


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## Orikoru (Mar 26, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Huge England fan who goes to all the games usually but tonight summed up Southgate.

Why play a holding midfielder against a team where you'll have 80% of the ball? He's so negative and throwing caps around like confetti. He cost England the World Cup in 2018 and he'll do the same in the Euros when push comes to shove and it's decided on tactical acumen.

The only bright spots tonight were Bellingham and Foden. The rest absolute garbage.
		
Click to expand...

We've got no chance in the Euros anyway. All our centre backs and goalkeepers are rubbish. You can't beat top teams with awful personnel at the back.


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## davidy233 (Mar 26, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			The wife has just asked if they play the crowd noise for the players in the stadium so they feel more comfortable.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly why Hearts and Hibs in Edinburgh do it - they trialed both with and without in pre-season and asked the players which they preferred.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 26, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			Exactly why Hearts and Hibs in Edinburgh do it - they trialed both with and without in pre-season and asked the players which they preferred.
		
Click to expand...

They tried both at the Emirates players said they couldn't tell the difference so kept it off to save money


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## Slime (Mar 28, 2021)

I've just realised how awful Pope is at kicking!
He's absolutely atrocious.
I'd have thought kicking a football was a prerequisite for a professional footballer, but obviously not.


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## Slime (Mar 28, 2021)

One good delivery .................... that's all it takes.


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## Beezerk (Mar 28, 2021)

How garbage is Sterling's left foot 🙈


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## Slime (Mar 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			How garbage is Sterling's left foot 🙈
		
Click to expand...

Utter.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			How garbage is Sterling's left foot 🙈
		
Click to expand...

Was going to post the same his first touch is not great either


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## USER1999 (Mar 28, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Was going to post the same his first touch is not great either
		
Click to expand...

Well worth 320k a week though.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 29, 2021)

Cheers Sergio and many thanks for the memories. Before you go, another four trophies would be apprecoated.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 29, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			How garbage is Sterling's left foot 🙈
		
Click to expand...

I would be happy to see him gone 👍


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## AmandaJR (Mar 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Cheers Sergio and many thanks for the memories. Before you go, another four trophies would be apprecoated.
		
Click to expand...


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## Beezerk (Mar 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I would be happy to see him gone 👍
		
Click to expand...

He looks out of place in your team now, he isn't good enough to play the passing style of football Pep has brought.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 29, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He looks out of place in your team now, he isn't good enough to play the passing style of football Pep has brought.
		
Click to expand...

In all honesty, now Sergio is going, I would like to see Sterling gone as well. My lad was telling me that one site he was on yesterday, Sterling was MOTM. 😳


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## Slime (Mar 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			In all honesty, now Sergio is going, I would like to see Sterling gone as well. My lad was telling me that *one site he was on yesterday, Sterling was MOTM*. 😳
		
Click to expand...

It was probably one of Sterling's own social media accounts.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 29, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



View attachment 35890

Click to expand...

I have to be honest even I jumped out of my seat watching that.
The lads a class footballer.


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## 4LEX (Mar 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			We've got no chance in the Euros anyway. All our centre backs and goalkeepers are rubbish. You can't beat top teams with awful personnel at the back.
		
Click to expand...

Playing from the back with that set of defenders is asking for trouble. We will gift at least 2 dangerous transitions a game from wrecklessness. We even did it in Albania against nomarks.

Maguire has gone downhill massively in the last year, it's quite amazing how much of a liability he has become. And don't get me started on Kyle Walker.

I think Southgate is a poor manager and great PR guy. Cost us the World Cup and can't fit all the midfield and attacking talent in. England will get to the semi finals based on quality alone and lack of it in other major nations. But will fall short when it counts due to the defence and Southgates lack of quality. I will say no side is playing well and doesn't have issues though. We do have a chance if we can start well and get momentum.


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## AmandaJR (Mar 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I have to be honest even I jumped out of my seat watching that.
The lads a class footballer.
		
Click to expand...

It still gets me goosebumps and a bit choked - every time I see/hear it.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 30, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			It still gets me goosebumps and a bit choked - every time I see/hear it.
		
Click to expand...

There certain places and times you will never forget. That day, the Aguero moment I was in Mary dees. It was turning into a "typical" City moment. 2-1 down and a feeling of were screwing it up again. Dzecko gave us hope but it seemed to make it worse.
Then that moment. Its a moment I will never forget. The pub erupted, ave never seen so many grown men cry. Tash was one of them. Filling up now thinking about it. That and Vinnie ripping the net out v Leicester. I was behind the nets for that game. But that Agueroooooooooooooooo moment was just 50 years of emotion let out in one moment.

That aside what was other fans one moment.


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## 4LEX (Mar 30, 2021)

I was playing golf and had scratchy reception. I'd backed Utd to win the title so was buzzing when I saw it was 2-1. I finished my round, checked the score and couldn't believe what I saw. I was that pissed off I went back out for 18 holes on my own. It cost me a lot of money and to this day, I've never seen the goal. I switch off or look away whenever it comes on 

Aguero was a great strike but let's be honest, he's been washed up for 2-3 years now. City will win the title by 15 points and he's barely featured. I hope the move gives him a new lease of life and it will be interesting to see who City sign to replace him. Haaland? Mbappe? Danny Ings


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 31, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



View attachment 35890

Click to expand...

If it was a movie you’d av said it was far fetched.
Doubt we’ll see an end to the season like that again.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 31, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			If it was a movie you’d av said it was far fetched.
Doubt we’ll see an end to the season like that again.
		
Click to expand...

It really was set up for the “ typical” City moment. The fact that the goal came in Fergie time was not lost on City fans. City had a few ex City players in the QPR team. Joey Barton played his best ever game for City, ironically not wearing a City shirt.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 31, 2021)

I was at Goodison watching Everton beat Newcastle, I remember those days.....Our game was wrapped up so people started taking an interest in the title. When the Aguero goal went in the ground went nuts, I ended up hugging a complete stranger and bouncing up and down with them for an oddly long time. No love lost for Utd at Goodison . Great moment of football, unless you are a Utd fan.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 31, 2021)

That’s really poor from Stones.
Game should be over but not ruthless enough.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 31, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s really poor from Stones.
Game should be over but not ruthless enough.
		
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Yes big mistake from Stones but it was yet another back pass this time from Rice  near the halfway line then it was a really poor pass from Pope to Stones. Poor all around. 

Walker stops play and passes back far to many times as well.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 31, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes big mistake from Stones but it was yet another back pass this time from Rice  near the halfway line then it was a really poor pass from Pope to Stones. Poor all around.

Walker stops play and passes back far to many times as well.
		
Click to expand...

I think in a City team he has so many options to play to.
But looking at that it’s a bad ball from Pope but he has lots of time but nobody is showing for the ball.
It should have gone back to Pope and then upfield.

With the RBs we have Walker should not be getting anywhere near a England shirt imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 31, 2021)

Quality strike by Maguire.


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## paddyc (Mar 31, 2021)

England a trifle fortunate to get win without playing anywhere near their best.
Southgate's reluctance to make changes when we were needed to freshen things up and get on front foot a big concern .


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## 4LEX (Mar 31, 2021)

The problem was the bench tonight was pretty poor attacking wise due to no Sancho, Grealish or Rashford. Don't rate Southgate and think he's way too defensive and afraid to make a wrong move but did anyone think DCL or Lingard would do anything?

Scrappy win but that's us qualified


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## Tashyboy (Apr 1, 2021)

To be honest I think England are complete and utter rammel. Take the last game. Phillips and Rice in midfield. They are not the most creative of players but will protect a back four. What against Albania 😳 Pope as a keeper I like, but his distribution is woeful. When he has the ball either Rice or Phillips has to come for it. They don’t. It’s shocking. With a back four and rice and Phillips. That leaves 3 attack minded players to be creative for Kane.
Watching Foden and Sterling play for England, they are different players than when at City.
What exactly is our system of play.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 1, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			To be honest I think England are complete and utter rammel. Take the last game. Phillips and Rice in midfield. They are not the most creative of players but will protect a back four. What against Albania 😳 Pope as a keeper I like, but his distribution is woeful. When he has the ball either Rice or Phillips has to come for it. They don’t. It’s shocking. With a back four and rice and Phillips. That leaves 3 attack minded players to be creative for Kane. 
Watching Foden and Sterling play for England, they are different players than when at City. 
What exactly is out system of play.
		
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I think rice and ward prowse would be an excellent combo as whilst a defensive midfielder he gets forward a lot


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## Orikoru (Apr 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



*I still believe that Stones is an awful defender, he just hasn't had to do any defending for a long time.* Someone like Haaland could actually embarrass him.
		
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I called it.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 1, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			To be honest I think England are complete and utter rammel. Take the last game. Phillips and Rice in midfield. They are not the most creative of players but will protect a back four. What against Albania 😳 Pope as a keeper I like, but his distribution is woeful. When he has the ball either Rice or Phillips has to come for it. They don’t. It’s shocking. With a back four and rice and Phillips. That leaves 3 attack minded players to be creative for Kane.
Watching Foden and Sterling play for England, they are different players than when at City.
What exactly is our system of play.
		
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I would add to this how deep Kane is playing .
He is linking play well but when we then go forward he is ten yards behind the ball.
This is what Firmino does at Liverpool , and unless the midfield get up past the striker there is nobody in the box.
Has Southgate asked him to play like this ?
Or has it just rubbed off from Spurs.?


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## Beezerk (Apr 1, 2021)

Yet another "paper over the cracks" victory for England.
I'm not looking forward to the Euros much


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## BiMGuy (Apr 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I called it.
		
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Stones and Maguire must be the worst pair of central defenders to ever play for England. 

I don't mind two defensive midfielders, but I think there needs to be a back 3 behind them, not a 4. I don't rate Rice at all and Phillips isn't the same player for England as he is for Leeds. Which I think is probably a conflict in styles. I can see Henderson and Philips working well. 

I really don't understand how Walker is playing in front of Reece James either.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 1, 2021)

Do not have any high expectations from England in the Euros, but I also don’t see any other Nation dominating the Comp either.

England have a lot of first choice players missing at the moment so I don’t think we’ve done that bad.

Pickford, TAA, Gomez, Henderson, Rashford, Maddison, Grealish, Dier etc, we won’t all agree on any of those listed playing or not, but it’s still players who have been and probably will get in the team before some of those over the last 3 games.

But in typical England fan style, we’re doomed whichever players he picks.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 1, 2021)

Watching the game last night I couldn’t actually see what we were scared of.
A very poor Polish team we should have taken care of comfortably.
The good news is this is probably nowhere near the best starting eleven.
Pope will be out as soon as Pickford available.
Walker not my first choice I would have Trippier.
Stones and McGuire don’t look solid as a pair but who else is there.
Mints? Not for me,and Shaw will be left back.
Foden ,Sterling,Rashford and Kane front four.
Agree with others Kane has to stay up front.
Rice wasted as a holding player but won’t get ahead of others further up field but imo is a very good holding midfielder.
Qualification the priority that’s done but can we win it against much better teams,once again it’s a no from me.


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## Orikoru (Apr 1, 2021)

My England team for the Euros would probably be as follows:

Pope
*RB* - Coady - *CB* - Shaw
Rice - Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​
The right back could be any one of about four players to be honest. Trent if you want to attack against someone rubbish, Wan-Bissaka if you only want him to defend against a decent winger, Trippier if you want to have lots of the ball or put crosses in, Walker if you just want someone to be fast and run into people. 

As for the second centre back, I'm sorry to say they are all mediocre at best. I think Coady is the best of a bad bunch. But if they're playing for their clubs then it'll be Maguire and Stones irrespective of what any of us think.


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## pendodave (Apr 1, 2021)

Stones, McGuire and pope looked pretty ugly as a 3 ball. 
Reminded me of arsenal. This is not a good thing. 
Apart from pickford coming in, not really sure what would improve things, sadly. 
Not particularly impressed by Phillips. Don't think he's quite up to the level.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 1, 2021)

Personally I’d like to see Henderson in goal but I believe he’ll stick with Pickford once he’s fit again.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Personally I’d like to see Henderson in goal but I believe he’ll stick with Pickford once he’s fit again.
		
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Jordan's good, but not THAT good.


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## Orikoru (Apr 1, 2021)

MAGUIRE.


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## DanFST (Apr 1, 2021)

Maguire will give away a pen for manhandling in the box this tournament, i'm sure of it.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			My England team for the Euros would probably be as follows:

Pope
*RB* - Coady - *CB* - Shaw
Rice - Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​
The right back could be any one of about four players to be honest. Trent if you want to attack against someone rubbish, Wan-Bissaka if you only want him to defend against a decent winger, Trippier if you want to have lots of the ball or put crosses in, Walker if you just want someone to be fast and run into people.

As for the second centre back, I'm sorry to say they are all mediocre at best. I think Coady is the best of a bad bunch. But if they're playing for their clubs then it'll be Maguire and Stones irrespective of what any of us think.
		
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Me I would go 4 3 3

a front 3 of Foden Kane and Sancho I would have sat behind Grealish (Henderson or Rice or phillips) and mount


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## pauljames87 (Apr 1, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Stones and Maguire must be the worst pair of central defenders to ever play for England. 

I don't mind two defensive midfielders, but I think there needs to be a back 3 behind them, not a 4. I don't rate Rice at all and Phillips isn't the same player for England as he is for Leeds. Which I think is probably a conflict in styles. I can see Henderson and Philips working well. 

I really don't understand how Walker is playing in front of Reece James either.
		
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Don't rate rice? How much you seen of him? At 22 he has 128 premier League games under his belt, 15 caps already 

He is going to be a huge player 

Wanted back by Chelsea , would walk into man uniteds team ATM , would be perfect replacement for fernandinio at city 

He wasted in a two DM system. He would be better as the only DM with a box to box like mount next to him.


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## Orikoru (Apr 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't rate rice? How much you seen of him? At 22 he has 128 premier League games under his belt, 15 caps already

He is going to be a huge player

Wanted back by Chelsea , would walk into man uniteds team ATM , would be perfect replacement for fernandinio at city

He wasted in a two DM system. He would be better as the only DM with a box to box like mount next to him.
		
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He does look such a good player. Reminds me of a young Roy Keane (without the being a psychopath part obviously) the way he can tackle & intercept but also drive a team on if needed, and deceptively good on the ball.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He does look such a good player. Reminds me of a young Roy Keane (without the being a psychopath part obviously) the way he can tackle & intercept but also drive a team on if needed, and deceptively good on the ball.
		
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The last bit for me .. Im used to us having average midfielders .. seeing him win the ball and come out of 50/50s on top often 

The lad is top notch. Anyone who doesn't rate him needs a closer look. Normally Newcastle fans who think longstaff is better 🤣 but he has come on with a runner in soucek next to him. I'm glad soucek can't pass the ball that well otherwise he would be off to a bigger team lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2021)

Not for the first time the media are once again blowing smoke up the backsides of an England team 

Southgate is a poor manager , he was poor at club level and is living of the back of very lucky World Cup in 18. 

There are some very talented England players but Southgate will not have a clue how to get the best out of them. 

The dropping of TAA was poor and then what he said after was even worse , in 3 years Southgate has only started him 9 times , he has no idea how to get the best out of Grealish or Foden and Maguire will get ripped apart by any top quality striker 

Come the Euros the media hype will be overdrive and once again the team will fail to deliver


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## pauljames87 (Apr 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not for the first time the media are once again blowing smoke up the backsides of an England team 

Southgate is a poor manager , he was poor at club level and is living of the back of very lucky World Cup in 18. 

There are some very talented England players but Southgate will not have a clue how to get the best out of them. 

The dropping of TAA was poor and then what he said after was even worse , in 3 years Southgate has only started him 9 times , he has no idea how to get the best out of Grealish or Foden and Maguire will get ripped apart by any top quality striker 

Come the Euros the media hype will be overdrive and once again the team will fail to deliver
		
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Everyone asks for players to be picked on form not reputation until their favourite gets dropped.


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## ger147 (Apr 1, 2021)

Tragic news about the captain of Yeovil Town Lee Collins who has died aged just 32.


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## USER1999 (Apr 1, 2021)

More of a random irritation, but Arsenal Liverpool, kick of 19.45 on Saturday. 

What the heck time is that for a football match?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 1, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			More of a random irritation, but Arsenal Liverpool, kick of 19.45 on Saturday.

What the heck time is that for a football match?
		
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A TV Time.


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## DanFST (Apr 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The dropping of TAA was poor and then what he said after was even worse , in 3 years Southgate has only started him 9 times
		
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Are we annoyed a right back from a mid table team hasn't made the squad?


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## chrisd (Apr 2, 2021)

Players aside for England, I'm getting really really bored with footballs current style of pass pass pass up to the opposition penalty area and the boot it back to the centre circle and, mostly because a forward presses the CB, it then goes back to the GK to start the process over and over again. 

I get that you don't concede goals when you have possession but it's just not worth 90 minutes of my time of a game that should be exciting


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not for the first time the media are once again blowing smoke up the backsides of an England team

Southgate is a poor manager , he was poor at club level and is living of the back of very lucky World Cup in 18.

There are some very talented England players but Southgate will not have a clue how to get the best out of them.

The dropping of TAA was poor and then what he said after was even worse , in 3 years Southgate has only started him 9 times , he has no idea how to get the best out of Grealish or Foden and Maguire will get ripped apart by any top quality striker

Come the Euros the media hype will be overdrive and once again the team will fail to deliver
		
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Have you not been watching TAA lately Phil?🤦‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Are we annoyed a right back from a mid table team hasn't made the squad?
		
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Mid table team 😂 and no not annoyed as it would mean a top player wouldn’t have to worry about injuries during the international break


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## 4LEX (Apr 2, 2021)

Pope

Shaw
Maguire
Coady
TAA

Rice
Henderson
Mount

Sterling
Kane
Sancho

A nice balance with protection from the midfield. Can easily become 4-2-4 in attack and 4-2-1-3 to hit on the counter when leading.

Although if Grealish comes back in form I'd be tempted to play him on the left instead of Sterling. Sterling and Rashford off the bench will cause teams huge issues. Semi finals minimum but a final would be progress. Unfortunately I don't think the run will be as easy as Russia. Given the whole pandemic it's a bit of a free hit for Southgate, which is why his negative tactics in the build up are a worry.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Pope

Shaw
Maguire
Coady
TAA

Rice
Henderson
Mount

Sterling
Kane
Sancho

A nice balance with protection from the midfield. Can easily become 4-2-4 in attack and 4-2-1-3 to hit on the counter when leading.

Although if Grealish comes back in form I'd be tempted to play him on the left instead of Sterling. Sterling and Rashford off the bench will cause teams huge issues. Semi finals minimum but a final would be progress. Unfortunately I don't think the run will be as easy as Russia. Given the whole pandemic it's a bit of a free hit for Southgate, which is why his negative tactics in the build up are a worry.
		
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Seen reports on social media that TAA , Sancho and Grealish will miss out on squad selection for the Euros - all three are far too creative for Southgate to even understand how to deal with


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seen reports on social media that TAA , Sancho and Grealish will miss out on squad selection for the Euros - all three are far too creative for Southgate to even understand how to deal with
		
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“Reports on social media” 😬😳
Seriously Phil?? 🤦‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seen reports on social media that TAA , Sancho and Grealish will miss out on squad selection for the Euros - all three are far too creative for Southgate to even understand how to deal with
		
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sk...-lingard-to-battle-for-england-euro-2020-spot


So your against form players earning places in international football ?

Bring back the old guard. We did so well with them with the caps for who you played for.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sk...-lingard-to-battle-for-england-euro-2020-spot


So your against form players earning places in international football ?

Bring back the old guard. We did so well with them with the caps for who you played for.
		
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Old guard ?! What are you dribbling on about now ?

The best players should go to a tournament - the most talented players with a manager that will get the best out of them , but it won’t happen and sub standard players like Lingard , Rice and Dier will go because the manager still hangs onto to his lucky break in 2018 - but when England flop once again they might actually go and source a top quality manager who could best make use of the talent England has. Hopefully all the Liverpool players gets a nice summer off


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Old guard ?! What are you dribbling on about now ? 

The best players should go to a tournament - the most talented players with a manager that will get the best out of them , but it won’t happen and sub standard players like Lingard and Dier will go because the manager still hangs onto to his lucky break in 2018 - but when England flop once again they might actually go and source a top quality manager who could best make use of the talent England has. Hopefully all the Liverpool players gets a nice summer off
		
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Lol so  inform lingard (if he carries on in this form) doesn't go to shoe horn in someone in less form? 

Stick to hockey


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lol so  inform lingard (if he carries on in this form) doesn't go to shoe horn in someone in less form?

*Stick to hockey*

Click to expand...

It’s amusing when people who actually know me say it - from you it’s not 

Lingard shouldn’t go because he is another overhyped rubbish English player who hits a small hot streak playing for a small club benefiting from not having their toxic fanbase anywhere near their rented stadium


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s amusing when people who actually know me say it - from you it’s not 

Lingard shouldn’t go because he is another overhyped rubbish English player who hits a small hot streak playing for a small club benefiting from not having their toxic fanbase anywhere near their rented stadium
		
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It's amusing because your football knowledge is much like your knowledge of most things 

Lacking 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			It's amusing because your football knowledge is much like your knowledge of most things

Lacking 👍
		
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Is that it ? Is that all you can muster as a response.

Lingard is the stereotypical English hyped mid level player , perfect for those traditional clubs that battle relegation and perfect for a low level manager like Southgate

One day England will find the manager to get the best out of the likes of Grealish ,Foden , Sancho , Maddison and Rashford


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## PieMan (Apr 2, 2021)

Personally I'm glad to see Lingard doing well now - had a difficult time recently at Man Utd so a change has kick-started his career again. 

But midfield and up front are where England aren't lacking in options so, despite his current good form, he's not going to get in ahead of the others Southgate has at his disposal.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that it ? Is that all you can muster as a response.

Lingard is the stereotypical English hyped mid level player , perfect for those traditional clubs that battle relegation and perfect for a low level manager like Southgate
		
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I'm afraid my time would be wasted as you would simply not comprehend what was said.

So I'll keep it simple for you ☺️


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Personally I'm glad to see Lingard doing well now - had a difficult time recently at Man Utd so a change has kick-started his career again. 

But midfield and up front are where England aren't lacking in options so, despite his current good form, he's not going to get in ahead of the others Southgate has at his disposal.
		
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Much more likely, I like lingard but options ahead

However his form has earned him the right for a recall


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Old guard ?! What are you dribbling on about now ?

The best players should go to a tournament - the most talented players with a manager that will get the best out of them , but it won’t happen and sub standard players like Lingard , Rice and Dier will go because the manager still hangs onto to his lucky break in 2018 - but when England flop once again they might actually go and source a top quality manager who could best make use of the talent England has. Hopefully all the Liverpool players gets a nice summer off
		
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So you’ve got your knickers in a twist because a player from a current mid table team,who is currently out of if form,isn’t being selected. 
But then you hope he gets a summer off🤔🤦‍♂️


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## SteveW86 (Apr 3, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Are we annoyed a right back from a mid table team hasn't made the squad?
		
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Come on, we all know mid table is 8th-12th.

Liverpool comfortably above that in 7th


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 3, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Much more likely, I like lingard but options ahead

However his form has earned him the right for a recall
		
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Yes I agree with you he deserved a place on his form.
But how did Sterling get a game.?


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## Slime (Apr 3, 2021)

Chelsea are holding the door open for West Ham and Spurs.
Could it be that, at the end of the season, West Ham are London's number one side.
Surely not.
That would be funny though.
Chelsea 2 v 5 West Brom.
Can big Sam possibly do it, could he?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			Chelsea are holding the door open for West Ham and Spurs.
Could it be that, at the end of the season, West Ham are London's number one side.
Surely not.
That would be funny though.
Chelsea 2 v 5 West Brom.
Can big Sam possibly do it, could he?
		
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I think it will be too little too late for Sam. Shame because would show a few people how good a manager he actually is. Gets performances out of players .. knows his job and does it well . Just not a fashionable manager 

With regards to west ham I think 6th is best we can hope for


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## pokerjoke (Apr 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Have you not been watching TAA lately Phil?🤦‍♂️
		
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I have and probably the worst right back who has been involved with England lately he’s just not a defender,great at crossing though.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 3, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Much more likely, I like lingard but options ahead

However his form has earned him the right for a recall
		
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Totally and he’s fresh having not had a full season.
One reason we always struggle in big tournaments,even Klopp has said so after the season all the players are knackered.


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## BiMGuy (Apr 3, 2021)

Looks like they aren't bothering with VAR at Elland Road today!


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## davemc1 (Apr 3, 2021)

Just seen the Chelsea score 🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 3, 2021)

De Bruyne's pass for the second goal was a thing of beauty. 2 Leicester players put on their backsides, both cm's from picking it off but slipping past them. Perfectly placed and weighted. Sterling tried to mess it up but thankfully the goal the pass deserved came. What a player he is.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 3, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I have and probably the worst right back who has been involved with England lately he’s just not a defender,great at crossing though.
		
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Yes I would agree with you.
But he normally plays as a midfielder he’s so forward.
He gives us great width on the pitch with Robbo on the other side.
But as an out and out defender he’s very average.
I think it’s why Southgate dosnt play him much  as he’s so defensive minded as a manager.


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## USER1999 (Apr 3, 2021)

Ok line up from Arsenal tonight. If Saka and ESR are not fit.
Might have picked Elneny over Ceballos, but not much else given what is available.


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## fundy (Apr 3, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Ok line up from Arsenal tonight. If Saka and ESR are not fit.
Might have picked Elneny over Ceballos, but not much else given what is available.
		
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might have picked Cedric at right back too


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## fundy (Apr 3, 2021)

get up Lacazette ffs


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## fundy (Apr 3, 2021)

didnt think it was possible to be as bad as we were against west ham 1st half but we have been  at least were not 3 behind i guess

Tierney injured again sigh


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## USER1999 (Apr 3, 2021)

Just turned it on, in time to see the Liverpool goal. Great.


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## USER1999 (Apr 3, 2021)

Now 2, I am a Jonah.


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## fundy (Apr 3, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Now 2, I am a Jonah.
		
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not sure youre the problem lol, another utterly bereft performance from a bunch of players who look barely interested, in a formation that clearly doesnt work with the players on the pitch, but that the manager is clearly sticking with whatever is in front of him


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 3, 2021)

1. What a great tash from Alisson 

2. So much better without Carragher commentating 

3. How much longer do Arsenal give Arteta


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## hairball_89 (Apr 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			1. What a great tash from Alisson

2. So much better without Carragher commentating

3. How much longer do Arsenal give Arteta
		
Click to expand...

4. 4 strikers in the squad. 3 with no form. Which of the four is on the bench?

5. Which of the above 4 changes the game?!


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			1. What a great tash from Alisson

2. So much better without Carragher commentating

3. How much longer do Arsenal give Arteta
		
Click to expand...

Winning a game are you 🙄🤦‍♂️😂


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## hairball_89 (Apr 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Winning a game are you 🙄🤦‍♂️😂
		
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Ever helpful.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 3, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			4. 4 strikers in the squad. 3 with no form. Which of the four is on the bench?

5. Which of the above 4 changes the game?!
		
Click to expand...

Is that Martinelli ? Always impressed by him

Are Smith Rowe and Saka injured ?


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## USER1999 (Apr 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that Martinelli ? Always impressed by him

Are Smith Rowe and Saka injured ?
		
Click to expand...

Yes.


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## fundy (Apr 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that Martinelli ? Always impressed by him

Are Smith Rowe and Saka injured ?
		
Click to expand...

yes (but arteta not prepared to give him game time since come back from injury), yes and yes


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			yes (but arteta not prepared to give him game time since come back from injury), yes and yes
		
Click to expand...

He has always looked dangerous when I have seen him - surely you don’t rely this much on two young kids ? Don’t think the GK has been threatened once


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## fundy (Apr 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has always looked dangerous when I have seen him - surely you don’t rely this much on two young kids ? Don’t think the GK has been threatened once
		
Click to expand...


yep we do, and they only got picked because of injuries

the gameplan doesnt fit the players but the constant blame is on the players, he has to find a plan B for the players he has, not as if we have a few hundred million to go and get what he needs in the summer

another window to clear out yet more deadwood and well still have plenty left and saying the same next year no doubt


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## hairball_89 (Apr 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that Martinelli ? Always impressed by him

Are Smith Rowe and Saka injured ?
		
Click to expand...

I was going Jota tbh!


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 3, 2021)

On another subject from tonight, RIP Rocky.

When us and Arsenal were rivals late 80's early 90's, I thought he was a brilliant player. We had John Barnes on the wing, who was awesome, but Rocky wasn't far behind, but when he went into the middle of midfield he was a fantastic player as well. Went far too young.


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## 4LEX (Apr 3, 2021)

If Liverpool had VVD and Jota all season the table would be a whole lot different.

Arsenal are stuck in no mans land. Big club but no money and can't afford the players they need to progress. Just a cycle of excuses and mediocrity. Arteta's a good manager but deserves better than having to play kids every game because the older players won't listen. Auba sums the club up. A 31 year old baby with the haircut of a rapper. Totally finished and grabbing 350k a week for the next 3 years


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## AmandaJR (Apr 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			1. What a great tash from Alisson

2. So much better without Carragher commentating

3. How much longer do Arsenal give Arteta
		
Click to expand...

2. We had to suffer him and his Kevin DeBruyn...pronounce it properly you dip. Listen to everyone else and the song "oh Kevin de Bruyne" - it has an extra syllable on the end!


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## fundy (Apr 4, 2021)

4LEX said:



			If Liverpool had VVD and Jota all season the table would be a whole lot different.

Arsenal are stuck in no mans land. Big club but no money and can't afford the players they need to progress. Just a cycle of excuses and mediocrity. Arteta's a good manager but deserves better than having to play kids every game because the older players won't listen. Auba sums the club up. A 31 year old baby with the haircut of a rapper. Totally finished and grabbing 350k a week for the next 3 years 

Click to expand...


on what basis is Arteta a good manager, especially if older players wont listen?

he may turn into one but totally and utterly unproven as yet and appears to have plan A and no plan B


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## 4LEX (Apr 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			on what basis is Arteta a good manager, especially if older players wont listen?

he may turn into one but totally and utterly unproven as yet and appears to have plan A and no plan B
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal were a bloated mess when he took over. Half the squad was deadwood on ridiculous wages from the shocking legacy Wenger left the club. Emery was a poor stop gap but couldn't sell or buy the players he wanted so was always up against it.

Arteta has actually managed to offload a few players but the key things are he has a style (when he's got his best side out) and he's already won a trophy. He's shown he can improve young players and these are the future of the club. The only bad mistake he's made was to sign Willian on big wages. Arsenal aren't going to get a world class manager and spend £400m to win trophies, the only way they'll ever become a major force is to give him time, continue to offload the deadwood and gradually bring in a few key players each year. Obvously it might not work but as a club they have no other option.

Arsenal have a handful of toxic players in the squad still, he's going to need to cull the likes of Xhaka, Pepe, Lacazzete and Auba this summer. Easier said than done due to the silly wages and lack of value.


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## fundy (Apr 4, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Arsenal were a bloated mess when he took over. Half the squad was deadwood on ridiculous wages from the shocking legacy Wenger left the club. Emery was a poor stop gap but couldn't sell or buy the players he wanted so was always up against it.

Arteta has actually managed to offload a few players but the key things are he has a style (when he's got his best side out) and he's already won a trophy. He's shown he can improve young players and these are the future of the club. The only bad mistake he's made was to sign Willian on big wages. Arsenal aren't going to get a world class manager and spend £400m to win trophies, the only way they'll ever become a major force is to give him time, continue to offload the deadwood and gradually bring in a few key players each year. Obvously it might not work but as a club they have no other option.

Arsenal have a handful of toxic players in the squad still, he's going to need to cull the likes of Xhaka, Pepe, Lacazzete and Auba this summer. Easier said than done due to the silly wages and lack of value.
		
Click to expand...


Wouldnt disagree with any of that apart from the bit that apart from the fact theres still nothing to say that Arteta is a good manager, just a half decent prospect on current evidence, as Ive said for years the issue at Arsenal is far bigger than the manager and sadly expect he will be another casualty rather than the solution


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## Hobbit (Apr 4, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Arsenal were a bloated mess when he took over. Half the squad was deadwood on ridiculous wages from the shocking legacy Wenger left the club. Emery was a poor stop gap but couldn't sell or buy the players he wanted so was always up against it.

Arteta has actually managed to offload a few players but the key things are he has a style (when he's got his best side out) and he's already won a trophy. He's shown he can improve young players and these are the future of the club. The only bad mistake he's made was to sign Willian on big wages. Arsenal aren't going to get a world class manager and spend £400m to win trophies, the only way they'll ever become a major force is to give him time, continue to offload the deadwood and gradually bring in a few key players each year. Obvously it might not work but as a club they have no other option.

Arsenal have a handful of toxic players in the squad still, he's going to need to cull the likes of Xhaka, Pepe, Lacazzete and Auba this summer. Easier said than done due to the silly wages and lack of value.
		
Click to expand...

How many clubs nowadays give carte blanche to managers to do their own buying and selling? Most have recruitment teams that far exceed those of the one off scouts that used to go to matches. How many recruitment teams propose, and even buy, players that aren't worthy of the shirt at the bigger clubs?

There was a stats exercise carried out a few years back that showed at least one third of all players bought don't live up to the expectations placed on them.

Is Wenger and Arteta solely responsible for the failings of those bought in? I very much doubt it.


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## Slime (Apr 4, 2021)

Now 4pts clear of 3rd and 9pts clear of 4th with a superior goal difference, happy days.
Luke Shaw was superb yet again.
Onwards and .................... well, onwards.


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## Billysboots (Apr 4, 2021)

Slime said:



			Now 4pts clear of 3rd and 9pts clear of 4th with a superior goal difference, happy days.
Luke Shaw was superb yet again.
Onwards and .................... well, onwards.
		
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A bit too much huff and puff, especially during the first half, but not finishing top four would be a disaster from where United are now. To think I didn’t give them a prayer after the first two months of this season, too.

Grinding results out when not playing well is the mark of a decent side, and United are in reasonable shape now. Still need a top quality centre half, 20-a-season striker and a right sided midfielder, but get two of those three in the summer and I’ll look forward to next season.


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## fundy (Apr 4, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			How many clubs nowadays give carte blanche to managers to do their own buying and selling? Most have recruitment teams that far exceed those of the one off scouts that used to go to matches. How many recruitment teams propose, and even buy, players that aren't worthy of the shirt at the bigger clubs?

There was a stats exercise carried out a few years back that showed at least one third of all players bought don't live up to the expectations placed on them.

*Is Wenger and Arteta solely responsible for the failings of those bought in? I very much doubt it.*

Click to expand...

No not at all at Arsenal, Edu currently has a big say and others before, its actually in that area Arsenals failings have been the biggest for the last 10ish years


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## 4LEX (Apr 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			Wouldnt disagree with any of that apart from the bit that apart from the fact theres still nothing to say that Arteta is a good manager, just a half decent prospect on current evidence, as Ive said for years the issue at Arsenal is far bigger than the manager and sadly expect he will be another casualty rather than the solution
		
Click to expand...

True the issue is the owners and the lack of ambition, hence why Arteta has his work cut out and is onto a loser. I expect him to leave for a bigger club before he's sacked.


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## 4LEX (Apr 4, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			How many clubs nowadays give carte blanche to managers to do their own buying and selling? Most have recruitment teams that far exceed those of the one off scouts that used to go to matches. How many recruitment teams propose, and even buy, players that aren't worthy of the shirt at the bigger clubs?

There was a stats exercise carried out a few years back that showed at least one third of all players bought don't live up to the expectations placed on them.

Is Wenger and Arteta solely responsible for the failings of those bought in? I very much doubt it.
		
Click to expand...

The recruitment has been bad at Arsenal for years. Wenger had total control but Emery and Arteta much less. Questions need to be asked about what Edu brings to the party or should that be partay (I'll get my coat)


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 4, 2021)

VAR ??
How’s that not a penalty for Burnley and Brighton.?


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			VAR ??
How’s that not a penalty for Burnley and Brighton.?
		
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Didn't see the Burnley one.
The other one wasn't a penalty because it wasn't a foul, simple really.


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			A bit too much huff and puff, especially during the first half, but not finishing top four would be a disaster from where United are now. To think I didn’t give them a prayer after the first two months of this season, too.

Grinding results out when not playing well is the mark of a decent side, and United are in reasonable shape now. *Still need a top quality centre half, 20-a-season striker and a right sided midfielder*, but get two of those three in the summer and I’ll look forward to next season.
		
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........... and a good CDM.
I must say, I was impressed with Brighton's Bissouma.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Didn't see the Burnley one.
The other one wasn't a penalty because it wasn't a foul,simple really. 

Click to expand...

Sorry that’s a pen all day long.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56640577

Well this will tell how far we have truely come


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 5, 2021)

Harry Maguire's theme song?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Didn't see the Burnley one.
The other one wasn't a penalty because it wasn't a foul,simple really. 

Click to expand...

It was a clear pen against Maguire


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## Fade and Die (Apr 5, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56640577

Well this will tell how far we have truely come
		
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Hope we go with Fornals in there not Noble.

It actually gives Moyes the chance to go for a more attacking game, but Moyes, being a negative arse. will opt for Noble and try to edge it 1-0, instead of really going for it.


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2021)

Not to me, the ref, the VAR clowns or the commentator.
Not clear enough to those who make the decisions, thankfully, because if it had been given I don't think it would have been overturned.
To be fair, it could have gone either way.
Two threes and a six.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Hope we go with Fornals in there not Noble.

It actually gives Moyes the chance to go for a more attacking game, but Moyes, being a negative arse. will opt for Noble and try to edge it 1-0, instead of really going for it.
		
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I'd like to see diop in there to cover .. or even caufal would litterally own any position defensively .. place him there with Frederick's in his place

Job done


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Not to me, the ref, the VAR clowns or the commentator.
Not clear enough to those who make the decisions, thankfully, because if it had been given I don't think it would have been overturned.
To be fair, it could have gone either way.
Two threes and a six.
		
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If it wouldn’t have been overturned if it was given then it’s a foul surely 🤷‍♂️



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1378805873309519872
this is the same Maguire who was complaining about UTD getting nothing from VAR



Only have to look who the ref is - did they bring back Webb to look at the VAR


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If it wouldn’t have been overturned if it was given then it’s a foul surely 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

No, it's because the VAR guys are generally clowns and, given or not, it wasn't clear and obvious enough to overturn whatever decision the ref had made.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2021)

Dean should have at least been told to go and have another look.
No attempt for the ball is red as well.


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## 4LEX (Apr 5, 2021)

Utd are a horrible side to watch. The quality of football they put out is shocking for an elite side. The luck they've had as been incredible all season apart from a month period where they had some 50/50's go against them, especially against West Brom and Chelsea. How did they respond? By having the captain claim they were being victimised and then Shaw accusing the ref of cheating by making something up, which was later proven to be untrue


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			No, it's because the VAR guys are generally clowns and, given or not, it wasn't clear and obvious enough to overturn whatever decision the ref had made.
		
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So if that’s Rashford being pulled back and clipped you would say it wasn’t a penalty


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2021)

4LEX said:



*Utd are a horrible side to watch.* The quality of football they put out is shocking for an elite side. The luck they've had as been incredible all season apart from a month period where they had some 50/50's go against them, especially against West Brom and Chelsea. How did they respond? By having the captain claim they were being victimised and then Shaw accusing the ref of cheating by making something up, which was later proven to be untrue 

Click to expand...

Don't watch them, it's not compulsory.


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if that’s Rashford being pulled back and clipped you would say it wasn’t a penalty
		
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Of course I would, but Welbeck wasn't being pulled back and clipped enough to get a penalty.
Not even sure he was clipped at all.
There was contact between the two players, it's a football match and football is not yet a non-contact sport.
As I said before, two threes and a six.
It's all about opinions.
I'm a United fan, you're a L'Pool fan ........................... there may be a bit of bias on both sides if we're brutally honest.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Of course I would, but Welbeck wasn't being pulled back and clipped enough to get a penalty.
Not even sure he was clipped at all.
There was contact between the two players, it's a football match and football is not yet a non-contact sport.
As I said before, two threes and a six.
It's all about opinions.
I'm a United fan, you're a L'Pool fan ........................... there may be a bit of bias on both sides if we're brutally honest.
		
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The contact from Maguire caused Welbeck to go to ground stopping him having a chance of getting the ball to have a very good chance to score , nothing to do with being a Liverpool fan - it was a clear foul , even if soft , it’s a penalty all day long and the type of clumsy defending that is seen by Maguire on a regular basis

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ar-manchester-united-penalty-call-3189541?amp


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 5, 2021)

Back to current matches, Everton seem to have lost the ability to kill teams off. Palace are poor yet we are handing them a point. So frustrating.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379122843649253378
Some cracking points from Neville as why Trent might not go and why it wouldn't be the worst decision in the world


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2021)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379122843649253378
Some cracking points from Neville as why Trent might not go and why it wouldn't be the worst decision in the world
		
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Neville on about matches being won on key moments - how many key moments have been won because of TAA for Liverpool - and in big games in the CL and Prem. TAA had no issues when facing the likes of Mbappe and Co when in the CL

As for the defending - couple of stats 

Someone also highlighted the goals that have come from the right side , half of them from free kicks and another 2 were deflected goals , was at fault for one goal at City and one where Ings turned him 

he is the best right back in the country - when the likes of Cafu state how good he is and someone like Southgate doesn’t pick him that just shows that Southgate has no idea. And it’s also worth remembering that both Walker and Tripper were torn apart in the World Cup when they faced a player of quality in Persic


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Neville on about matches being won on key moments - how many key moments have been won because of TAA for Liverpool - and in big games in the CL and Prem. TAA had no issues when facing the likes of Mbappe and Co when in the CL

As for the defending - couple of stats 

Someone also highlighted the goals that have come from the right side , half of them from free kicks and another 2 were deflected goals , was at fault for one goal at City and one where Ings turned him 

he is the best right back in the country - when the likes of Cafu state how good he is and someone like Southgate doesn’t pick him that just shows that Southgate has no idea. And it’s also worth remembering that both Walker and Tripper were torn apart in the World Cup when they faced a player of quality in Persic 
View attachment 36031
View attachment 36032

Click to expand...

What about when klopp didn't play TAA and played Gomez instead at RB in a big game because he was better defensively?

Oh and that over rated English man scored again. Solo run from basically half way line 

Properly rubbish


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The contact from Maguire caused Welbeck to go to ground stopping him having a chance of getting the ball to have a very good chance to score , nothing to do with being a Liverpool fan - *it was a clear foul* , even if soft , it’s a penalty all day long and the type of clumsy defending that is seen by Maguire on a regular basis

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.sussexexpress.co.uk/sport/football/brighton-and-hove-albion/maguire-the-wrong-side-of-welbeck-alan-shearer-baffled-by-mike-dean-and-var-manchester-united-penalty-call-3189541?amp

Click to expand...

Most definitely not *'a clear foul'*, but hey, let's just agree to disagree.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

Fornals!!!!! 

Glad to see him amongst the goals .. such a clever footballer


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2021)

Unless I'm missing something, doesn't this show that AWB is clearly the better defender.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Unless I'm missing something, doesn't this show that AWB is clearly the better defender.



View attachment 36033

Click to expand...

But that isn't the point Phil's trying to make so why question it? Lol 😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			What about when klopp didn't play TAA and played Gomez instead at RB in a big game because he was better defensively?

Oh and that over rated English man scored again. Solo run from basically half way line

Properly rubbish
		
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Do you mean 3 years ago when he was still developing as an 18 year ? As opposed to 18/19 season and 19/20 season when he was right back ever present and pretty much the best right back in European football


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you mean 3 years ago when he was still developing as an 18 year ? As opposed to 18/19 season and 19/20 season when he was right back ever present and pretty much the best right back in European football
		
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Lol remind me how old was Gomez?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Unless I'm missing something, doesn't this show that AWB is clearly the better defender.



View attachment 36033

Click to expand...

AWB is the best defensive right back England have - it should him , TAA and then one of James or Tripper in the squad


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lol remind me how old was Gomez?
		
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A year old and a better defender than TAA was at their relevant stages of their career - but it’s still 3 years ago


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A year old and a better defender than TAA was at their relevant stages of their career - but it’s still 3 years ago
		
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Yet Liverpool's defence has been all over the shop all year. Granted the best defender in the league has been sidelined . Trent has had a rough year ..not played his best . Yet he should automatically walk into the euros?

Ironically if covid hadnt hit he would be at the euros in his correct year as he was flying and unstoppable

But this is a year on and he hasn't been his best ...

Plus as slime points out wan bassaka is the best by your own chart


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yet Liverpool's defence has been all over the shop all year. Granted the best defender in the league has been sidelined . Trent has had a rough year ..not played his best . Yet he should automatically walk into the euros?

Ironically if covid hadnt hit he would be at the euros in his correct year as he was flying and unstoppable

But this is a year on and he hasn't been his best ...

Plus as slime points out wan bassaka is the best by your own chart
		
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Yes because he is still the best complete right back in the league and his form over the past 4 weeks has improved especially since they have a settle CB partnership , Tripper spent 10 weeks of the season banned , James and Walker have both been in and out of their teams . 

AWB defensively is the strongest but offers very little going forward - Southgate will ignore both to go with two right backs that played in the World Cup 3 years ago


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes because he is still the best complete right back in the league and his form over the past 4 weeks has improved especially since they have a settle CB partnership , Tripper spent 10 weeks of the season banned , James and Walker have both been in and out of their teams . 

AWB defensively is the strongest but offers very little going forward - Southgate will ignore both to go with two right backs that played in the World Cup 3 years ago
		
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Yet walker is far more versatile than Trent.. can play right midfield. Right back. Centre back 

Trent can't over that extra centre back cover .. can we least agree our CB are rather rubbish and we might need walker there? And with walker there it might be why Trent misses out.. need the more defensive minded right back


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yet walker is far more versatile than Trent.. can play right midfield. Right back. Centre back

Trent can't over that extra centre back cover ..* can we least agree our CB are rather rubbish and we might need walker there? *And with walker there it might be why Trent misses out.. need the more defensive minded right back
		
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Hopefully Phil Jones will be fit in time for the Euros.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yet walker is far more versatile than Trent.. can play right midfield. Right back. Centre back

Trent can't over that extra centre back cover .. can we least agree our CB are rather rubbish and we might need walker there? And with walker there it might be why Trent misses out.. need the more defensive minded right back
		
Click to expand...

TAA can play right mid , right wing back , right winger - he is certainly versatile. Walkers pace allows him to cover up his mistakes and get back quickly but this year he hasn’t been first choice at City - but I would take Walker for the experience , AWB for the pure defensive and TAA for his ability on the ball


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

Wow we must be rubbish. Troare has actually got an assist this season 

3-1

It's happening again


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			TAA can play right mid , right wing back , right winger - he is certainly versatile. Walkers pace allows him to cover up his mistakes and get back quickly but this year he hasn’t been first choice at City - but I would take Walker for the experience , AWB for the pure defensive and TAA for his ability on the ball
		
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As can walker to all those positions you list there 

Trent will be our world cup right back next year I'm sure of it

The euros might just be poorly timed for his form.

But hey. Injuries are key. Look at rice. Shoe in for the squad but now? Who knows 

One injury and Trent is in

Sometimes the standbys are the best players of the tournament.....


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## pendodave (Apr 5, 2021)

Are we tottenham in disguise??
This is quite an embarrassing habit to have acquired...


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Are we tottenham in disguise??
This is quite an embarrassing habit to have acquired...
		
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Need ogbonna back soon..been a massive miss


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## pendodave (Apr 5, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Need ogbonna back soon..been a massive miss
		
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Agreed. Makes a big difference.
To think there was loose talk about clubs being interested in buying diop a couple of years ago.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Agreed. Makes a big difference.
To think there was loose talk about clubs being interested in buying diop a couple of years ago.
		
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Got huge potential. Hasn't cut it in premier League but I'd imagine In Spain would look good for example


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## Papas1982 (Apr 5, 2021)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379122843649253378
Some cracking points from Neville as why Trent might not go and why it wouldn't be the worst decision in the world
		
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Imo the only thing I would take form that is that I’d take both TAA and Wan Bissaka. 
Ones the best going forward, the other defensively. 

The others are all somewhere in between and not good enough imo.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Unless I'm missing something, doesn't this show that AWB is clearly the better defender.



View attachment 36033

Click to expand...

Without a shadow of a doubt AWB looks the best. But, his dribbled past rate is the worst of the lot. And when the golden waistcoat is playing 2 defensive midfielders he needs everyone to try and create And AWB is struggling. Agree re Walker may go, purely on the basis he is a senior who can tuck into a couple of places. Is he the best. Not for me.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 5, 2021)

Important win

Shows how far we have come..

A win without rice 

Worrying injury to lingard at the end hopefully just cramp


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Without a shadow of a doubt AWB looks the best. But, his dribbled past rate is the worst of the lot. And when the golden waistcoat is playing 2 defensive midfielders he needs everyone to try and create And AWB is struggling. Agree re Walker may go, purely on the basis he is a senior who can tuck into a couple of places. Is he the best. Not for me.
		
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I read it that his dribbled past rate was the best of the lot, in that he'd only been dribbled past by an opponent 11.5% of the time. Have I got that wrong and that's the amount of times he's dribbled past an opponent?


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## pendodave (Apr 5, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Are we tottenham in disguise??

Click to expand...

Thankfully, it turns out we're not...


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## Tashyboy (Apr 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I read it that his dribbled past rate was the best of the lot, in that he'd only been dribbled past by an opponent 11.5% of the time. Have I got that wrong and that's the amount of times he's dribbled past an opponent?
		
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Could well be the case 👍


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## GG26 (Apr 5, 2021)

Best English right back choice.  If he fully recovers from his injury its now got to be James Justin.  Can also play left back and CB if required.

Feel really sorry for the lad as had he not got injured he would almost certainly made his England debut in the last round of internationals.


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## chrisd (Apr 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I read it that his dribbled past rate was the best of the lot, in that he'd only been dribbled past by an opponent 11.5% of the time. Have I got that wrong and that's the amount of times he's dribbled past an opponent?
		
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If dribbling past was an asset, I'd be a shoe in for the team at my age


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## Billysboots (Apr 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a clear pen against Maguire
		
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The only sensible observation really came, ironically, from Graham Potter.

He said it wasn’t a clear and obvious error, hence why VAR didn’t review it. And as such, he went on to say, had it been given VAR would not, if applied correctly, have overruled the decision to award the penalty.

My view, as a United fan, is that it was a penalty. But if my (today’s) understanding of VAR is right, it was correctly applied.


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## Orikoru (Apr 6, 2021)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379122843649253378
Some cracking points from Neville as why Trent might not go and why it wouldn't be the worst decision in the world
		
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I understand it, you wouldn't play Trent against the big sides as he leaves too much space behind him. But not all our games are against those sides, I'd still take him and play him against the nations where we're favourites and need to create chances. I don't even know if you can say Walker or Trippier are better than him defensively - Wan-Bissaka probably is but he's not really been in the picture for England.


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## Bazzatron (Apr 6, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Wow we must be rubbish. Troare has actually got an assist this season

3-1

It's happening again
		
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Created 49 chances this season, unfortunately for him we've replaced Raul with a statue. Sick of the stats about Traore without any context.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 6, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Created 49 chances this season, unfortunately for him we've replaced Raul with a statue. Sick of the stats about Traore without any context.
		
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For me he is Antonio without the final product. Needs to work on that.

49 chances? Premier League stats say in his entire premier League career he has created 18 big chances , wheres that stat from?

If he gets his end product up he will develope into such a player due to his power 

I'd like his fitness with Antonio's raw force





Last season Vs this season


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## Orikoru (Apr 6, 2021)

Adama Traore looks excellent whenever I see him play. According to WhoScored.com he's making 1.4 key passes per game - which is exactly the same as Kane, who is the assist leader in the Premier League. He's also making 4.4 successful dribbles per game, which is comfortably the highest the league. I definitely think Wolves missing Jiminez is a huge factor, Willian Jose hasn't cut the mustard at all.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 6, 2021)

I'd take him at Everton, like a shot. Cracking player and he would make a big difference for us.


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd take him at Everton, like a shot. Cracking player and he would make a big difference for us.
		
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hes no alex iwobi


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## Bazzatron (Apr 6, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			For me he is Antonio without the final product. Needs to work on that.

49 chances? Premier League stats say in his entire premier League career he has created 18 big chances , wheres that stat from?

If he gets his end product up he will develope into such a player due to his power

I'd like his fitness with Antonio's raw force

View attachment 36049
View attachment 36050


Last season Vs this season
		
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Antonio going off gave us a sniff, would've been 5 otherwise as he was bullying Coady and Saiss. 

Big chances and Chances combined, as much football is more about stats (him especially) totals the 49. I'm not sure on the difference between the two. 

His real issue this season is Raul and Jota both being unavailable, the amount of time he's beat his man and there's either nothing in the box to aim for or the rest are too slow to keep up has made him look rubbish, when looking at stats alone. But, I've watched every game and I'd rather have him in the team than not. Unfortunately I don't think he'll be with us next season.


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Antonio going off gave us a sniff, would've been 5 otherwise as he was bullying Coady and Saiss.

Big chances and Chances combined, as much football is more about stats (him especially) totals the 49. I'm not sure on the difference between the two.

His real issue this season is Raul and Jota both being unavailable, the amount of time he's beat his man and there's either nothing in the box to aim for or the rest are too slow to keep up has made him look rubbish, when looking at stats alone. But, I've watched every game and I'd rather have him in the team than not. *Unfortunately I don't think he'll be with us next season*.
		
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Surely that will depend on the asking price, if its anything like the numbers being bandied about last close season he'll almost certainly still be in your side next year

I mean who pays 70m for a winger without enough end product (oh yeah, sigh, we do)


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## pauljames87 (Apr 6, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Antonio going off gave us a sniff, would've been 5 otherwise as he was bullying Coady and Saiss. 

Big chances and Chances combined, as much football is more about stats (him especially) totals the 49. I'm not sure on the difference between the two. 

His real issue this season is Raul and Jota both being unavailable, the amount of time he's beat his man and there's either nothing in the box to aim for or the rest are too slow to keep up has made him look rubbish, when looking at stats alone. But, I've watched every game and I'd rather have him in the team than not. Unfortunately I don't think he'll be with us next season.
		
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Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying he's awful and I'd take him In a heart beat just was pointing out how rubbish our defense is to allow him an assist.....considering his lack of this season.

I'm not seeing the 49 anywhere tho


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## Bazzatron (Apr 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Surely that will depend on the asking price, if its anything like the numbers being bandied about last close season he'll almost certainly still be in your side next year

I mean who pays 70m for a winger without enough end product (oh yeah, sigh, we do)
		
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Two years left on his deal and no mention of signing a new one yet. The others have been tied down for when we get unfortunately get the big boys knocking, Neves, Neto etc.


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Two years left on his deal and no mention of signing a new one yet. The others have been tied down for when we get unfortunately get the big boys knocking, Neves, Neto etc.
		
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what price do you let him go for on that basis? 20m? 30m?


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## Bazzatron (Apr 6, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying he's awful and I'd take him In a heart beat just was pointing out how rubbish our defense is to allow him an assist.....considering his lack of this season.

I'm not seeing the 49 anywhere tho
		
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You tried what everyone else does and tried to kick him...which is what we should've done when Lingard was given the freedom of the city. Need to get better at the dark arts.

The 49 is from the Twitter virgins and meme accounts, I was expecting them to have counted them


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## Bazzatron (Apr 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			what price do you let him go for on that basis? 20m? 30m?
		
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We sold Jota for 40m so I think we'd be asking for the same, I can never truly be trusted in player valuations of my club as I'm the most biased fan you'll ever meet, none of them can do anything wrong. 

But if 30m enables us to bring in a top centre half to play alongside Boly in a two then it needs to be done.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 6, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			You tried what everyone else does and tried to kick him...which is what we should've done when Lingard was given the freedom of the city. Need to get better at the dark arts.

The 49 is from the Twitter virgins and meme accounts, I was expecting them to have counted them 

Click to expand...

To be fair you were pretty dirty especially at the end .. that tackle on lingard was dirty as hell


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			We sold Jota for 40m so I think we'd be asking for the same, I can never truly be trusted in player valuations of my club as I'm the most biased fan you'll ever meet, none of them can do anything wrong.

But if 30m enables us to bring in a top centre half to play alongside Boly in a two then it needs to be done.
		
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Think there will be sides prepared to take a chance on him at £30m even in the current climate (depending on wage demands), sort of player a lot of clubs/managers must look at and think if they could just improve the end product slightly theyd have a world beater, not saying Wolves havent tried.


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## Bazzatron (Apr 6, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			To be fair you were pretty dirty especially at the end .. that tackle on lingard was dirty as hell
		
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Not enough when it mattered.


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			We sold Jota for 40m so I think we'd be asking for the same, *I can never truly be trusted in player valuations of my club as I'm the most biased fan you'll ever meet,* none of them can do anything wrong.

But if 30m enables us to bring in a top centre half to play alongside Boly in a two then it needs to be done.
		
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I had you down as one of the more balanced ones on here, not that thats saying much


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## Bazzatron (Apr 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Think there will be sides prepared to take a chance on him at £30m even in the current climate (depending on wage demands), sort of player a lot of clubs/managers must look at and think if they could just improve the end product slightly theyd have a world beater, not saying Wolves havent tried.
		
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Nuno has improved him massively from when he came. Still more to come from him.


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## Bazzatron (Apr 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			I had you down as one of the more balanced ones on here, not that thats saying much 

Click to expand...

I'm certainly a more balanced Wolves fan than the rest, quite a few want Nuno sacked every week.


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			I'm certainly a more balanced Wolves fan than the rest, quite a few want Nuno sacked every week.
		
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We'll have him if you dont want him, can we have your owner too please?


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## Orikoru (Apr 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd take him at Everton, like a shot. Cracking player and he would make a big difference for us.
		
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I'd have Traore at Spurs without a doubt, I think he'd have a hatful of assists for Kane and Son by now. Not that they'll be around much longer.


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## Bazzatron (Apr 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			We'll have him if you dont want him, can we have your owner too please? 

Click to expand...

You'll be calling him the Portuguese Pulis within weeks too like our lot do


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## pauljames87 (Apr 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'd have Traore at Spurs without a doubt, I think he'd have a hatful of assists for Kane and Son by now. Not that they'll be around much longer.
		
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You have talent in Moura and Bergwijn

They should provide tones!


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## Orikoru (Apr 6, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			You have talent in Moura and Bergwijn

They should provide tones!
		
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I like Lucas. Traore is him with muscles, haha. Bergwijn is pretty rubbish to be honest. I mean, Bale should be starting by now but obviously something else is going on there.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			hes no alex iwobi 

Click to expand...

That hurts every time . Not sure it will ever not feel like salt in a paper cut.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The only sensible observation really came, ironically, from Graham Potter.

He said it wasn’t a clear and obvious error, hence why VAR didn’t review it. And as such, he went on to say, had it been given VAR would not, if applied correctly, have overruled the decision to award the penalty.

My view, as a United fan, is that it was a penalty. But if my (today’s) understanding of VAR is right, it was correctly applied.
		
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The ref obviously missed it.
It remains a mystery what clear and obvious is.
It was clear to me he pulled him down by the shoulder and that’s the main problem with VAR imo, it should be able to tell the ref he missed something.
As it stands all they do is agree with his decision
VAR should have told him to go have another look at least.

But the Burnley one was even worse his shirt was like a windsurfing sail.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The ref obviously missed it.
*It remains a mystery what clear and obvious is.*
It was clear to me he pulled him down by the shoulder and that’s the main problem with VAR imo, it should be able to tell the ref he missed something.
As it stands all they do is agree with his decision
VAR should have told him to go have another look at least.

But the Burnley one was even worse his shirt was like a windsurfing sail.
		
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Absolutely no mystery at all; the more clear and obvious it is to the average fan, the less clear and obvious it is to the referee and VAR.  

Unless it involves Harry Maguire in which case it is completely clear and obvious regardless of the circumstances that he is incapable of committing a foul.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2021)

Poor from reds tonight.
Really can’t understand why we play so high at the back when we have no pace there.
You just can’t give a player like Kroos that much time on the ball.

But have to say how the ref and VAR don’t think that’s a foul on Mane no attempt for the ball is a red card.


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## SteveW86 (Apr 6, 2021)

What’s the thoughts on TAA involvement in Madrid’s opening goal?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			What’s the thoughts on TAA involvement in Madrid’s opening goal?
		
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We all know he’s not the best defender.
Real are targeting him imo as when he pushes forward he leaves spaces.
The header was very poor for the second.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 6, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			What’s the thoughts on TAA involvement in Madrid’s opening goal?
		
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Exactly why his inclusion isn't a formality


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			What’s the thoughts on TAA involvement in Madrid’s opening goal?
		
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High line - ball played down the channel , line beaten by a great ball and even better run from the striker and the pace takes the player away from both the CB and RB


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379522477261529090
So this was a foul and a yellow card - for the Dortmund player 😲😲


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2021)

This game is mental - Madrid are just a touch quick going forward , rapid at times , not helped by how slow the two CB’s are but it’s just end to end 

If only I could find a way to turn off both the fake noise and McManaman


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## Baldy Bouncer (Apr 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This game is mental - Madrid are just a touch quick going forward , rapid at times , not helped by how slow the two CB’s are but it’s just end to end

If only I could find a way to turn off both the fake noise and McManaman
		
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ER..... mute button?


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## hairball_89 (Apr 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379522477261529090
So this was a foul and a yellow card - for the Dortmund player 😲😲
		
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as poor a decision as the reds' first half, that.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379522477261529090
So this was a foul and a yellow card - for the Dortmund player 😲😲
		
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This is why refs get so much stick .
That’s a shocking decision.


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## hairball_89 (Apr 6, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			What’s the thoughts on TAA involvement in Madrid’s opening goal?
		
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Awful for their 2nd. The first Philips has to clear the ball and the man, for me. The moment the ball is in the air and the RM player is on his bike the CB should own the situation.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2021)

Got what we deserved there.
I don’t think I have ever seen a reds side give the ball away so much under no pressure.
We looked scared of them.
Ran out of ideas.
But Real played very well.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Awful for their 2nd. The first Philips has to clear the ball and the man, for me. The moment the ball is in the air and the RM player is on his bike the CB should own the situation.
		
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Yes just step across him don’t just let him go.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 7, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			What’s the thoughts on TAA involvement in Madrid’s opening goal?
		
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Was a cracking assist .
And that’s why he HAS to be in the England starting 11 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂


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## Beezerk (Apr 7, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Was a cracking assist .
And that’s why he HAS to be in the England starting 11 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂
		
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I don't know what's happened to him, he seems to have turned from one of the most promising upcoming defenders into a liability. He looks distracted and almost arrogant when he's on the pitch, a Kyle Walker wannabe 
His loss in form is a huge loss for England though.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I don't know what's happened to him, he seems to have turned from one of the most promising upcoming defenders into a liability. He looks distracted and almost arrogant when he's on the pitch, a Kyle Walker wannabe 
His loss in form is a huge loss for England though.
		
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Nail on head .. arrogant is exactly how I would describe him


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## Orikoru (Apr 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I don't know what's happened to him, he seems to have turned from one of the most promising upcoming defenders into a liability. He looks distracted and almost arrogant when he's on the pitch, a Kyle Walker wannabe 
His loss in form is a huge loss for England though.
		
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It's probably a lot easier to mask defensive vulnerability when you have Van Dijk in the side with you. Still, a lot of young players come through and look amazing when the pressure is still off, but then it goes to their head - like Dele Alli for example.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I don't know what's happened to him, he seems to have turned from one of the most promising upcoming defenders into a liability. He looks distracted and almost arrogant when he's on the pitch, a Kyle Walker wannabe 
His loss in form is a huge loss for England though.
		
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He’s lost the two main defenders who played along side him for the whole of last year.
The midfield in front of him are not preforming on a regular basis.
He is not an out and out defender more like a spare midfielder.
All defenders make mistakes.
Nobody has mentioned the cross for Jotta’s goal at the weekend.

We were playing one of the best teams in the world.
Who played very well by the way.

I am sure he will regain his form soon ,all players have dips.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's probably a lot easier to mask defensive vulnerability when you have Van Dijk in the side with you. Still, a lot of young players come through and look amazing when the pressure is still off, but then it goes to their head - like Dele Alli for example.
		
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Spot on .
If you have VVD covering for you it makes your life a lot easier.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2021)

It was a mistake for the second goal but then he was also outstanding when covering twice to deny them a clear goalscoring chance - the covering tackle on Benzema was superb. His touch that started the move for the goals was excellent as well 

TAA is in a long line of very talented England players that people appear to want to shoot down when they have a dip in form - he isn’t arrogant and it’s laughable to suggest he is. He is 21 , already won the big trophies, proven himself on the big stage - right now he along with a lot of players are suffering with form dips and confidence, it’s going to happen with the season the club is happening. 

People will continue to rip him apart especially the engerland fans and I hope he would be one of the first to just walk away from England , it’s a national team that’s been nothing but hype and disappointment for the past 30 years.


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## Orikoru (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a mistake for the second goal but then he was also outstanding when covering twice to deny them a clear goalscoring chance - the covering tackle on Benzema was superb. His touch that started the move for the goals was excellent as well

TAA is in a long line of very talented England players that people appear to want to shoot down when they have a dip in form - he isn’t arrogant and it’s laughable to suggest he is. He is 21 , already won the big trophies, proven himself on the big stage - right now he along with a lot of players are suffering with form dips and confidence, it’s going to happen with the season the club is happening.

People will continue to rip him apart especially the engerland fans and* I hope he would be one of the first to just walk away from England* , it’s a national team that’s been nothing but hype and disappointment for the past 30 years.
		
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What are you going on about?  The last player to walk out on England was Chris Sutton and he is still living it down 25 years later. You say he's not arrogant so I'm sure he's not going to turn his back on the England team for not picking him when he's still only 21, as that would be about the most arrogant thing he could possibly do. 

Personally I would have him in the squad as an attacking option against the poorer teams, then maybe put someone more defensive-minded in against the top teams. But if Southgate leaves him out, it's not the end by any stretch, he will keep learning the defensive side of the game and I'm sure it won't be too long before he nails down that starting spot.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What are you going on about?  The last player to walk out on England was Chris Sutton and he is still living it down 25 years later. You say he's not arrogant so I'm sure he's not going to turn his back on the England team for not picking him when he's still only 21, as that would be about the most arrogant thing he could possibly do. 

Personally I would have him in the squad as an attacking option against the poorer teams, then maybe put someone more defensive-minded in against the top teams. But if Southgate leaves him out, it's not the end by any stretch, he will keep learning the defensive side of the game and I'm sure it won't be too long before he nails down that starting spot.
		
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Some people just need to stick to hockey 🏒


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What are you going on about?  The last player to walk out on England was Chris Sutton and he is still living it down 25 years later. You say he's not arrogant so I'm sure he's not going to turn his back on the England team for not picking him when he's still only 21, as that would be about the most arrogant thing he could possibly do.

Personally I would have him in the squad as an attacking option against the poorer teams, then maybe put someone more defensive-minded in against the top teams. But if Southgate leaves him out, it's not the end by any stretch, he will keep learning the defensive side of the game and I'm sure it won't be too long before he nails down that starting spot.
		
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Chris Sutton said be wouldnt play for the England B team and because of that Hoddle wouldn’t pick him again. If England called him up again he would have gone and played

I know TAA isn’t going to walk away from England - I didn’t suggest he would actually do it 🤦‍♂️

As for the more “defensive minded” - there is only one Right back with better defensive stats than TAA and thats AWB not the three RB Southgate picked.

But ultimately the main point is it’s another Young England player who gets ripped apart when they drop down a level - it’s a regular occurrence with Engerland fans ( mainly from small clubs who have witnessed zero success in their lifetime ) - one minute they are lorded the next minute not good enough - also stemming from the media.


pauljames87 said:



			Some people just need to stick to hockey 🏒
		
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As I said previously - it’s funny when people who know me say it but it’s nothing but derogatory and insulting from someone who doesn’t. If you want to post snarky comments directed towards me then pop to a meet and then see someone in person first. Your post adds nothing but to attempt to wind people up. I’m not posting anything derogatory aimed at you - please apply the same common courtesy


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a mistake for the second goal but then he was also outstanding when covering twice to deny them a clear goalscoring chance - the covering tackle on Benzema was superb. His touch that started the move for the goals was excellent as well

TAA is in a long line of very talented England players that people appear to want to shoot down when they have a dip in form - he isn’t arrogant and it’s laughable to suggest he is. He is 21 , already won the big trophies, proven himself on the big stage - right now he along with a lot of players are suffering with form dips and confidence, it’s going to happen with the season the club is happening.

People will continue to rip him apart especially the engerland fans and I hope he would be one of the first to just walk away from England , it’s a national team that’s been nothing but hype and disappointment for the past 30 years.
		
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Right so when he plays well like last season you get to bang on about him every 2 mins,but when he’s poor no ones aloud to criticise him? 🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Chris Sutton said be wouldnt play for the England B team and because of that Hoddle wouldn’t pick him again. If England called him up again he would have gone and played

I know TAA isn’t going to walk away from England - I didn’t suggest he would actually do it 🤦‍♂️

As for the more “defensive minded” - there is only one Right back with better defensive stats than TAA and thats AWB not the three RB Southgate picked.

But ultimately the main point is it’s another Young England player who gets ripped apart when they drop down a level - it’s a regular occurrence with Engerland fans ( mainly from small clubs who have witnessed zero success in their lifetime ) - one minute they are lorded the next minute not good enough - also stemming from the media.


As I said previously - it’s funny when people who know me say it but it’s nothing but derogatory and insulting from someone who doesn’t. If you want to post snarky comments directed towards me then pop to a meet and then see someone in person first. Your post adds nothing but to attempt to wind people up. I’m not posting anything derogatory aimed at you - please apply the same common courtesy
		
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Always fine when you do it Phil 😘

Nothing better than a hypocrite 🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			This is why refs get so much stick .
That’s a shocking decision.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379549807916748802
This also happened - the linesman asking for an autograph from a player 😲

 Both referees were shocking last night , some of the decisions were baffling - the one for Bellingham top of the bunch


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Chris Sutton said be wouldnt play for the England B team and because of that Hoddle wouldn’t pick him again. If England called him up again he would have gone and played

I know TAA isn’t going to walk away from England - I didn’t suggest he would actually do it 🤦‍♂️

As for the more “defensive minded” - there is only one Right back with better defensive stats than TAA and thats AWB not the three RB Southgate picked.

But ultimately the main point is it’s another Young England player who gets ripped apart when they drop down a level - it’s a regular occurrence with Engerland fans ( mainly from small clubs who have witnessed zero success in their lifetime ) - one minute they are lorded the next minute not good enough - also stemming from the media.


As I said previously - it’s funny when people who know me say it but it’s nothing but derogatory and insulting from someone who doesn’t. If you want to post snarky comments directed towards me then pop to a meet and then see someone in person first. Your post adds nothing but to attempt to wind people up. I’m not posting anything derogatory aimed at you - please apply the same common courtesy
		
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I wouldn’t read too much into the Stats Phil 👍🏻


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## Orikoru (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Chris Sutton said be wouldnt play for the England B team and because of that Hoddle wouldn’t pick him again. If England called him up again he would have gone and played

I know TAA isn’t going to walk away from England - I didn’t suggest he would actually do it 🤦‍♂️

As for the more “defensive minded” - there is only one Right back with better defensive stats than TAA and thats AWB not the three RB Southgate picked.

But ultimately the main point is it’s another Young England player who gets ripped apart when they drop down a level - it’s a regular occurrence with Engerland fans ( mainly from small clubs who have witnessed zero success in their lifetime ) - one minute they are lorded the next minute not good enough - also stemming from the media.


As I said previously - it’s funny when people who know me say it but it’s nothing but derogatory and insulting from someone who doesn’t. If you want to post snarky comments directed towards me then pop to a meet and then see someone in person first. Your post adds nothing but to attempt to wind people up. I’m not posting anything derogatory aimed at you - please apply the same common courtesy
		
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Actually Trippier has also made more tackles and clearances this season, but he wasn't on the comparison given before because they did Premier League only. I agree that fans and media treat England players terribly - I even see it on here regularly against the likes of Kane and Sterling as well, both of whom are world class. But you're acting like it's totally outrageous if TAA doesn't go to the Euros, when it just isn't. He's not recaptured the same form, and right back is one of our most plentiful positions, so we have other options. His time will come, probably in the World Cup which is only a year and a half away.


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## DanFST (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But ultimately the main point is it’s another Young England player who gets ripped apart when they drop down a level - i*t’s a regular occurrence with Engerland fans ( mainly from small clubs who have witnessed zero success in their lifetime )* - one minute they are lorded the next minute not good enough - also stemming from the media.
		
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TAA hasn't been good enough, at any point this season. Defensive injuries in the squad have exposed him. Once it's worked out you can be targeted, teams will always try it. Think that's fairly obvious to anyone that's played to a decent level, in any sport. 

I'll take your comment at face value, instead of some weird dig. "Small clubs" have players that are overlooked, purely because of where they play. Lets's take little old West Ham (Who are above the current champions 30 games into the season) We had Cresswell playing the football of his life. No selection.(Bertrand was at Chelsea, Danny Rose at Spurs). West ham get into the Europa League, He's in. Even tho he's just come back from a long injury and is playing at 60% of what he was before. Scott Parker was running the show for years, I believe he "needed to go to a big club for international football" Was loyal to us for too long, performances fell away, but as soon as he went to spurs, called up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2021)

DanFST said:





TAA hasn't been good enough, at any point this season. Defensive injuries in the squad have exposed him. Once it's worked out you can be targeted, teams will always try it. Think that's fairly obvious to anyone that's played to a decent level, in any sport.

I'll take your comment at face value, instead of some weird dig. "Small clubs" have players that are overlooked, purely because of where they play. Lets's take little old West Ham (Who are above the current champions 30 games into the season) We had Cresswell playing the football of his life. No selection.(Bertrand was at Chelsea, Danny Rose at Spurs). West ham get into the Europa League, He's in. Even tho he's just come back from a long injury and is playing at 60% of what he was before. Scott Parker was running the show for years, I believe he "needed to go to a big club for international football" Was loyal to us for too long, performances fell away, but as soon as he went to spurs, called up.
		
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A lot of comes down to the extra level of football the players at the bigger clubs or clubs in Europe are playing - players showing that can play at not just the Premier League teams but also in the CL 

Scott Parker for example had the likes of Lampard , Gerrard ahead of him with others like Carrick and Barry in the squad - players playing for teams in Europe etc 

Then players like Bertrand and Rose before Creswell both again in the CL for their clubs 

So yes at times players from clubs not in Europe at times get ignored - mainly because they don’t get the chance to show they can play against the top players in Europe and why some players move from the clubs not in Europe.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			This is why refs get so much stick .
That’s a shocking decision.
		
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It’s a shocking decision with the benefit of 3 Angles and slow mo, try watching it again and take note of the Referee’s position, watch he will see, the speed of play and Ederson’s reaction.

The Referee had a split second to make a decision.

What’s more shocking is fans who apparently played and and understand the game seem so quick to criticise officials.

I watched the City v Dortmund game and the Officials were good, any questionable moments came from the behaviour of the players and their willingness to cheat and trying to influence the Officials.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s a shocking decision with the benefit of 3 Angles and slow mo, try watching it again and take note of the Referee’s position, watch he will see, the speed of play and Ederson’s reaction.

The Referee had a split second to make a decision.

What’s more shocking is fans who apparently played and and understand the game seem so quick to criticise officials.

I watched the City v Dortmund game and the Officials were good, any questionable moments came from the behaviour of the players and their willingness to cheat and trying to influence the Officials.
		
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Do you mean the slo Mo’s and angles that VAR was brought into to be used 🤷‍♂️

The ref should have let the ball go in the net and then if there are any issues VAR would have picked it up - if it was a clear foul the goal would have be disallowed - instead he blew his whistle and denied Dortmund a goal that could potentially cost them millions and a place in the semi final - 

The red didnt have a split second to make the decision - he has the tools at his disposal to allow play to continue and then check after - it took everything out of play and made the decision himself and got it very wrong and the only person to blame for that is the ref and no one else.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you mean the slo Mo’s and angles that VAR was brought into to be used 🤷‍♂️

The ref should have let the ball go in the net and then if there are any issues VAR would have picked it up - if it was a clear foul the goal would have be disallowed - instead he blew his whistle and denied Dortmund a goal that could potentially cost them millions and a place in the semi final -

The red didnt have a split second to make the decision - he has the tools at his disposal to allow play to continue and then check after - it took everything out of play and made the decision himself and got it very wrong and the only person to blame for that is the ref and no one else.
		
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Once again you prove you don’t understand the rules, the Ref blew because he believed he saw a foul, that’s it, game stops and therefore VAR could not be used to review the decision. All your points are irrelevant.

Either we play by the rules or we don’t.

The Referee made a bad decision, that has only been proved by TV replays.

We have to try and understand why decisions are made rather than crucifying Officials everytime they make what turns out to be a genuine error.

Funny how when a player from a team we support makes an error we see their fans coming up with all sorts of excuses of why it happened, but lack the same empathy when it comes to Officials.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379549807916748802
This also happened - the linesman asking for an autograph from a player 😲

Both referees were shocking last night , some of the decisions were baffling - the one for Bellingham top of the bunch
		
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I think the ref had decided Mane is a diver ( didn’t give him a thing even when fouled,)
I think he got it badly wrong and VAR is a joke .
It’s understandable in 50/50 but that was just shocking.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Once again you prove you don’t understand the rules, the Ref blew because he believed he saw a foul, that’s it, game stops and therefore VAR could not be used to review the decision. All your points are irrelevant.

Either we play by the rules or we don’t.

The Referee made a bad decision, that has only been proved by TV replays.

We have to try and understand why decisions are made rather than crucifying Officials everytime they make what turns out to be a genuine error.

Funny how when a player from a team we support we see fans coming up with all sorts of excuses of why it happened, but lack the same empathy when it comes to Officials.
		
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🤦‍♂️

Hence why I said the referee should have allowed play to carry on instead of blowing his whistle 🙄

They brought VAR in to help the referee make the right choice - the ball was rolling into the net , the simple choice was to allow it to continue and if the ref was right and it was a foul the goal would have been disallowed and play would have continued with a free kick

But as was seen it wasn’t a foul and should have been a goal - and if he hasn’t blown his whistle then VAR would have been used as it is for every goal scored 

There is no excuse - it was poor from the referee, they brought in VAR to help them and his actions took it out of play and his actions were wrong


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s a shocking decision with the benefit of 3 Angles and slow mo, try watching it again and take note of the Referee’s position, watch he will see, the speed of play and Ederson’s reaction.

The Referee had a split second to make a decision.

What’s more shocking is fans who apparently played and and understand the game seem so quick to criticise officials.

I watched the City v Dortmund game and the Officials were good, any questionable moments came from the behaviour of the players and their willingness to cheat and trying to influence the Officials.
		
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Once he’s outside the box he’s just another player.
Keepers are protected to much.
Just let the game go on ,he scores and VAR tells the ref it’s not a foul.
I was quoting this decision , if the refs in a bad position that’s what VAR is for.!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️

Hence why I said the referee should have allowed play to carry on instead of blowing his whistle 🙄

They brought VAR in to help the referee make the right choice - the ball was rolling into the net , the simple choice was to allow it to continue and if the ref was right and it was a foul the goal would have been disallowed and play would have continued with a free kick

But as was seen it wasn’t a foul and should have been a goal - and if he hasn’t blown his whistle then VAR would have been used as it is for every goal scored

There is no excuse - it was poor from the referee, they brought in VAR to help them and his actions took it out of play and his actions were wrong
		
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Use as many emoji’s as you like, on a pitch a Referee will blow his whistle when he sees a foul, they will only try and play the advantage if the advantage is for the team who have been fouled, ie, last night City did not have an advantage.

You really should try and move away from what you think should happen and see it as the Laws of the game intended.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️

Hence why I said the referee should have allowed play to carry on instead of blowing his whistle 🙄

They brought VAR in to help the referee make the right choice - the ball was rolling into the net , the simple choice was to allow it to continue and if the ref was right and it was a foul the goal would have been disallowed and play would have continued with a free kick

But as was seen it wasn’t a foul and should have been a goal - and if he hasn’t blown his whistle then VAR would have been used as it is for every goal scored

There is no excuse - it was poor from the referee, they brought in VAR to help them and his actions took it out of play and his actions were wrong
		
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Yes that is the exact reason they don’t flag for offside!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Once he’s outside the box he’s just another player.
Keepers are protected to much.
Just let the game go on ,he scores and VAR tells the ref it’s not a foul.
I was quoting this decision , if the refs in a bad position that’s what VAR is for.!
		
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He’s not in a bad position though! He’s up with play and only sees it from one angle, he saw two players challenge for the ball and decides Bellingham kicked the keeper and blows for a foul, once he blows for this offence VAR cannot be used.

Yes from other angles he’s wrong, but he hasn’t purposely made a wrong decision, he’s made the decision he believes is correct at the time.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes that is the exact reason they don’t flag for offside!
		
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No it’s not, they have been given a directive to keep the flag down, Referee’s have received no such directive.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes that is the exact reason they don’t flag for offside!
		
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Yep - they want VAR to make the calls most of the time , and players are getting injured because of it 

Before VAR it would have been a poor decision but with the tools in place and what was happening the ref just allows play to continue and VAR then checks to see if there is a foul - if there is the goal is disallowed , if there isn’t then Dortmund get the deserved goal - the commentary even said straight away they have no idea what he has seen there. It’s a decision that could cost Dortmund heavily and it’s a reason why VAR was brought in


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep - they want VAR to make the calls most of the time , and players are getting injured because of it

Before VAR it would have been a poor decision but with the tools in place and what was happening the ref just allows play to continue and VAR then checks to see if there is a foul - if there is the goal is disallowed , if there isn’t then Dortmund get the deserved goal - the commentary even said straight away they have no idea what he has seen there. It’s a decision that could cost Dortmund heavily and it’s a reason why VAR was brought in
		
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Make your mind up, we don’t like Linesman keeping their flags down because someone could get injured in the ensuing seconds etc.

But we want Referee’s to wait blowing their whistle to see what happens!

I take it there’s no chance of a player being injured while we wait for Refs to blow.


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## Orikoru (Apr 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Make your mind up, we don’t like Linesman keeping their flags down because someone could get injured in the ensuing seconds etc.

But we want Referee’s to wait blowing their whistle to see what happens!

I take it there’s no chance of a player being injured while we wait for Refs to blow.
		
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It's the inconsistency though. Why direct the linesmen to wait on decisions so they can be reviewed, but not tell the ref the same thing? In my opinion he's made a _double _shocker - first shocking decision is to see it as a foul on Ederson, second shocking decision is to blow his whistle when he did, instead of waiting another 2 seconds until the ball had crossed the line, then VAR could simply have reviewed the goal for a potential foul.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's the inconsistency though. Why direct the linesmen to wait on decisions so they can be reviewed, but not tell the ref the same thing? In my opinion he's made a _double _shocker - first shocking decision is to see it as a foul on Ederson, second shocking decision is to blow his whistle when he did, instead of waiting another 2 seconds until the ball had crossed the line, then VAR could simply have reviewed the goal for a potential foul.
		
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Two things:

1. The Linesmen are only directed to delay Offside decisions, not delay for fouls.

2. As stated, a Referee will not play an advantage against the Team fouled, so if he’d of thought Bellingham had been fouled he may of chosen to delay the whistle.

Mate, I totally agree it was the wrong decision, but that was only after trial by media, time and time again on here we get the media slated for having an agenda or causing problems in the game, but people are happy to use it when it proves their point.

Sometimes we should stand back and try to understand why some decisions are made.


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## Orikoru (Apr 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Two things:

1. The Linesmen are only directed to delay Offside decisions, not delay for fouls.

2. As stated, a Referee will not play an advantage against the Team fouled, so if he’d of thought Bellingham had been fouled he may of chosen to delay the whistle.

Mate, I totally agree it was the wrong decision, but that was only after trial by media, time and time again on here we get the media slated for having an agenda or causing problems in the game, but people are happy to use it when it proves their point.

Sometimes we should stand back and try to understand why some decisions are made.
		
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It's just exhausting, so many times VAR is used pointlessly or badly, and then here is a situation where it could have been useful, but the ref has blundered it so it couldn't be used. It's annoying, but you're right, VAR was never going to cut out mistakes entirely.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's just exhausting, so many times VAR is used pointlessly or badly, and then here is a situation where it could have been useful, but the ref has blundered it so it couldn't be used. It's annoying, but you're right, VAR was never going to cut out mistakes entirely.
		
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Totally agree, it should be used for everything or the so many appeals for each time as a few on here have suggested.

Current use is hideously flawed.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s not in a bad position though! He’s up with play and only sees it from one angle, he saw two players challenge for the ball and decides Bellingham kicked the keeper and blows for a foul, once he blows for this offence VAR cannot be used.

Yes from other angles he’s wrong, but he hasn’t purposely made a wrong decision, he’s made the decision he believes is correct at the time.
		
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He guessed and got it wrong.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He guessed and got it wrong.
		
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Of course he did!


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree, it should be used for everything or the so many appeals for each time as a few on here have suggested.

Current use is hideously flawed.
		
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Yes the way it’s being used is awful .
They need to take a long look and use it to help the ref if he misses something.


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## fundy (Apr 8, 2021)

With a bit of luck Arteta might be informing his lazy charges that this is basically their cup final and bar 2 or 3 theyve been uttely awful, carrying on where they left off against Liverpool 

No tempo, no pace, no desire, just going through the motions against a side happy to sit in and wait for the chance to be offered to them. Not being good enough is one thing, lack of effort another

Youd hope it cant get any worse...................


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## fundy (Apr 8, 2021)

Seems it can  Get in front but just cant defend for toffee for 10 mins  Prague going to be hard hard work now but hard to argue we deserve much more after being so insipid for 75 minutes


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## USER1999 (Apr 8, 2021)

Didn't bother watching. Have been watching the golf.

Arteta can't coach character. You either have it, or you don't. Very few Arsenal players have any character at all.


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## Slime (Apr 8, 2021)

Meanwhile, over in Granada ...................................


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## Tashyboy (Apr 9, 2021)

Slime said:



			Meanwhile, over in Granada ...................................
		
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theres a streaker and no crowd 😳


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2021)

just lol VAR


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## Tashyboy (Apr 10, 2021)

Sky sports reporting Harry Kane expected to tell Spurs he wants to leave if they don’t qualify for the champs league. I get that but don’t that rock the cart before the end of the season.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Sky sports reporting Harry Kane expected to tell Spurs he wants to leave if they don’t qualify for the champs league. I get that but don’t that rock the cart before the end of the season.
		
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Always welcome at West ham


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Sky sports reporting Harry Kane expected to tell Spurs he wants to leave if they don’t qualify for the champs league. I get that but don’t that rock the cart before the end of the season.
		
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Im no spurs fan but accusing Kane of rocking the boat a bit harsh imo (plenty of stuff to accuse him of), especially based on some journo stories (unless Ive missed the Kane interview asking to leave?).


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## BiMGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Andre Marriner and VAR are a disgrace.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Andre Marriner and VAR are a disgrace.
		
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🤷‍♂️
surely not the Cooper challenge


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## Orikoru (Apr 10, 2021)

Dallas is in my fantasy team... as third sub on the bench. That is super annoying.


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## BiMGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️
surely not the Cooper challenge
		
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Perfectly good tackle 😜. But compare it to th Baldock tackle on Roberts last week which didn't even get a booking or looked at by VAR and you can see why Leeds fans are annoyed. 

But just the general inconsistency. The Alioski booking which was a clear dive. Stirling stamping on two Leeds players. 
Fernandinho should have got a straight red for his challenge at the end.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2021)

I just don’t understand that 🤦‍♂️


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I just don’t understand that 🤦‍♂️
		
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The goal was disallowed for offside 🤷‍♂️😂😂😂😂


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## pokerjoke (Apr 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I just don’t understand that 🤦‍♂️
		
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That’s very impressive having BT sport and Sky Sports is it a joint package?


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## pokerjoke (Apr 10, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			The goal was disallowed for offside 🤷‍♂️😂😂😂😂
		
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I don’t think he means that I think it’s how Allison didn’t save the goal


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Perfectly good tackle 😜. But compare it to th Baldock tackle on Roberts last week which didn't even get a booking or looked at by VAR and you can see why Leeds fans are annoyed.

But just the general inconsistency. The Alioski booking which was a clear dive. Stirling stamping on two Leeds players.
Fernandinho should have got a straight red for his challenge at the end.
		
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VAR overall is just making the games worse and also making the refs worse , last night it was shocking and players being offside by their armpits etc - and then you look at the goal Dortmund should have had. Goal line tech was great -VAR is going to ruin the games


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## BiMGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VAR overall is just making the games worse and also making the refs worse , last night it was shocking and players being offside by their armpits etc - and then you look at the goal Dortmund should have had. Goal line tech was great -VAR is going to ruin the games
		
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Agreed.


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## Slime (Apr 10, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



*Sky sports reporting Harry Kane expected to tell Spurs he wants to leave if they don’t qualify for the champs league.* I get that but don’t that rock the cart before the end of the season.
		
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I suspect that maybe Kane's agent is letting a few hints fall out of his mouth.
Agents are good at that.


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## Slime (Apr 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VAR overall is just making the games worse and also making the refs worse , last night it was shocking and players being offside by their armpits etc - and then you look at the goal Dortmund should have had. Goal line tech was great -*VAR is going to ruin the games*

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Whilst I can't wholly disagree with that I would definitely point a much larger finger at most footballers cheating and doing their utmost to con the officials.
Players should rely on their footballing abilities rather than their acting abilities.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2021)

Slime said:



			Whilst I can't wholly disagree with that I would definitely point a much larger finger at most footballers cheating and doing their utmost to con the officials.
Players should rely on their footballing abilities rather than their acting abilities.
		
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Players have been doing that for decades - irrelevant to the way VAR is being employed


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## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2021)

Ah and there we go TAA to score to justify why defensively he should be called up 😁


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## Orikoru (Apr 10, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Ah and there we go TAA to score to justify why defensively he should be called up 😁
		
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Carragher really annoyed me - he's been bigging him up all game and he couldn't resist calling out Neville on that goal. As if bending in a nice goal eliminates all the worries about him being defensively suspect somehow.   Neville must honestly bang his head against the wall after his debates with Carra sometimes.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Carragher really annoyed me - he's been bigging him up all game and he couldn't resist calling out Neville on that goal. As if bending in a nice goal eliminates all the worries about him being defensively suspect somehow.   Neville must honestly bang his head against the wall after his debates with Carra sometimes.
		
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I think the constant heading the ball out did a bit of damage to Jamie over the years 

Obviously a lovely goal and he is turning on the attacking form

But at right back .. got to make sure the foundations are sound before you build on it


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## chrisd (Apr 10, 2021)

Chelsea  - so very lucky!


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Chelsea  - so very lucky!
		
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lol, lucky that Palace didnt turn up?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I think the constant heading the ball out did a bit of damage to Jamie over the years

Obviously a lovely goal and he is turning on the attacking form

But at right back .. got to make sure the foundations are sound before you build on it
		
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Yes I agree.
But TAA isn’t just a RB.
It all depends how Southgate wants to set up!
My guess would be a back four and two holding defenders he’s that cautious.
That leaves TAA in limbo.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
But TAA isn’t just a RB.
It all depends how Southgate wants to set up!
My guess would be a back four and two holding defenders he’s that cautious.
That leaves TAA in limbo.
		
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If he has back 4 with 2 holding midfielders surely that means taa is who you take? As rice and whoever would provide cover for those full backs


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2021)

TAA is more than good enough to play RB for England, the extra’s he brings to the attack means he should be one of the first names down in the first XI, never mind the squad.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If he has back 4 with 2 holding midfielders surely that means taa is who you take? As rice and whoever would provide cover for those full backs
		
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Not the way Southgate thinks imo.

Playing minnows he still plays two defensive midfielders.
Out and out FB Wan Bisaka for me anything else TAA .


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## 4LEX (Apr 10, 2021)

Huge fan of Liverpool and Klopp but somethingh isn't right. At 1-1 and 90 minutes they were passing back to the keeper, today was a very lucky result. Too many key players going through the motions, which is the opposite of Klopp and his sides. The side has a feel of the end at Dortmund about it. The play is so slow and predictable. I really hope they sign a striker with something of a presence in the air as a Plan B. They've got 3 of the best crossers of a ball in Europe in TAA, Robertson and Salah and midgets in the middle.

I think City's result is good long term as it again shows Torres and Jesus are so far out of their depth and can't be relied on. Squad players and nothing else. Jesus has good stats but most of his goals are in big wins or in cups against second rate sides. City desperately need a true world class striker. The lack of it will cost them in the CL this season IMO.


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## Jensen (Apr 10, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Sky sports reporting Harry Kane expected to tell Spurs he wants to leave if they don’t qualify for the champs league. I get that but don’t that rock the cart before the end of the season.
		
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It’ll be a great shame to see him leave, he’s been a fantastic pro for us. However I can fully understand his decision and wish him well.
It’s also gonna cost a lot of money as he’s still under contract for another 2 years.


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## Jensen (Apr 10, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Always welcome at West ham
		
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Why would he move to a smaller club 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Why would he move to a smaller club 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Better work ethic

Better manager 😁


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Huge fan of Liverpool and Klopp but somethingh isn't right. At 1-1 and 90 minutes they were passing back to the keeper, today was a very lucky result. Too many key players going through the motions, which is the opposite of Klopp and his sides. The side has a feel of the end at Dortmund about it. The play is so slow and predictable. I really hope they sign a striker with something of a presence in the air as a Plan B. They've got 3 of the best crossers of a ball in Europe in TAA, Robertson and Salah and midgets in the middle.

I think City's result is good long term as it again shows Torres and Jesus are so far out of their depth and can't be relied on. Squad players and nothing else. Jesus has good stats but most of his goals are in big wins or in cups against second rate sides. City desperately need a true world class striker. The lack of it will cost them in the CL this season IMO.
		
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Dismantling a good midfield to cover the CBs was the biggest mistake for me.
If he had just played the young lads and kept 2/3 rds of the side together we might be better off , but we might not who knows.
We need a presence in the box but we havnt got anyone.
Firminos to deep and is playing catch up all the time and for a CF his finishing is crap.

He might have told the players he’s leaving at the end of the season , who knows.?
It would explain a lot of things.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Dismantling a good midfield to cover the CBs was the biggest mistake for me.
If he had just played the young lads and kept 2/3 rds of the side together we might be better off , but we might not who knows.
We need a presence in the box but we havnt got anyone.
Firminos to deep and is playing catch up all the time and for a CF his finishing is crap.

He might have told the players he’s leaving at the end of the season , who knows.?
It would explain a lot of things.
		
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The day klopp leaves will be a sad day for the league 

When pep buggers off I won't bat an eyelid . Someone will replace him and city will still win

Liverpool lose klopp? Don't see them pushing city again. He's like a fergie type. Worth 20 points


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2021)

Jensen said:



			It’ll be a great shame to see him leave, he’s been a fantastic pro for us. However I can fully understand his decision and wish him well.
It’s also gonna cost a lot of money as he’s still under contract for another 2 years.
		
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Like other pros he will go where his wife wants to live.
London club means not having to move home.
I think he will stay where he is.


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## Fade and Die (Apr 10, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Why would he move to a smaller club 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Because we have a great reputation for signing past it, injury prone players at the end of their career.😜


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The day klopp leaves will be a sad day for the league

When pep buggers off I won't bat an eyelid . Someone will replace him and city will still win

Liverpool lose klopp? Don't see them pushing city again. He's like a fergie type. Worth 20 points
		
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There is something wrong somewhere.
Money , maybe 
Attracting players should not be a problem 
Imho to many games have stopped us playing how he wants to the players look knackered.
To many injuries to key players hasn’t helped.
We’re not playing well but next game we just play the same system we have no plan B.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2021)

Jensen said:



			It’ll be a great shame to see him leave, he’s been a fantastic pro for us. However I can fully understand his decision and wish him well.
It’s also gonna cost a lot of money as he’s still under contract for another 2 years.
		
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I don’t see him leaving because I don’t think a club will pay the fee Spurs will demand for him 

if clubs are going to spend over £100mil then they will look at players like Mbappe and Haaland 

Kane will be 28 in the summer - has had a lot of ankle issues plus a few other injuries ( 13 in over the last 8 years ) - I don’t see what club will pay over the odds for him. £60 mil ish then yep


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 10, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			TAA is more than good enough to play RB for England, the extra’s he brings to the attack means he should be one of the first names down in the first XI, never mind the squad.
		
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Not the best defensively tho


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t see him leaving because I don’t think a club will pay the fee Spurs will demand for him

if clubs are going to spend over £100mil then they will look at players like Mbappe and Haaland

Kane will be 28 in the summer - has had a lot of ankle issues plus a few other injuries ( 13 in over the last 8 years ) - I don’t see what club will pay over the odds for him. £60 mil ish then yep
		
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His goal tally isn’t too bad considering🤷‍♂️
Seem to remember you being adamant that Liverpool wouldn’t be signing Thiago due to age & injury record 😬🙄


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## SteveW86 (Apr 10, 2021)

Kane would Atleast help City’s home grown numbers


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## 4LEX (Apr 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Dismantling a good midfield to cover the CBs was the biggest mistake for me.
If he had just played the young lads and kept 2/3 rds of the side together we might be better off , but we might not who knows.
We need a presence in the box but we havnt got anyone.
Firminos to deep and is playing catch up all the time and for a CF his finishing is crap.

He might have told the players he’s leaving at the end of the season , who knows.?
It would explain a lot of things.
		
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The thing is you were playing well without VVD to start and still dominating games and looking good. The Jota injury and Firmino being on the slide really cost you over those three months. But now it looks like every single player is out of form. Even Salah who has got goals doesn't look convincing. The keeper, defence, midfield and attack is all badly out of form. It juist looks a million miles from Liverpool of the last few years.

Definitely an unusual season and maybe he's accepted it's a bad one and will bring in a few players in the summer and go again. I can't see him going. Buy 2 quality players and with the injured players back you'll be in good shape.


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## Slime (Apr 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Players have been doing that for decades - irrelevant to the way VAR is being employed
		
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Absolutely 100%, but if they behaved with a bit of honesty the refs would have a far easier job and VAR would be far less relevant.
VAR, in itself, is not the issue, it's the muppets who are using it that is the issue.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2021)

Slime said:



			Absolutely 100%, but if they behaved with a bit of honesty the refs would have a far easier job and VAR would be far less relevant.
VAR, in itself, is not the issue, it's the muppets who are using it that is the issue.
		
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What does the players behaving and honesty have to do with the horrific use of VaR for offsides ? Offside because of your armpit ?!? The sleeve on your shirt and ensure if it’s in the same frame


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## Slime (Apr 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*I don’t see him leaving because I don’t think a club will pay the fee Spurs will demand for him*

if clubs are going to spend over £100mil then they will look at players like Mbappe and Haaland

Kane will be 28 in the summer - has had a lot of ankle issues plus a few other injuries ( 13 in over the last 8 years ) - I don’t see what club will pay over the odds for him. £60 mil ish then yep
		
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If a silly fee is being asked by Spurs, it means they risk Kane running down his contract.
They certainly won't want that to happen.
I think that if Kane decides he wants to leave, he'll leave.


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## Slime (Apr 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What does the players behaving and honesty have to do with the horrific use of VaR for offsides ? Offside because of your armpit ?!? The sleeve on your shirt and ensure if it’s in the same frame
		
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There's more to VAR than offsides.


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## 4LEX (Apr 10, 2021)

I think Spurs will see Kane for 2 years worth the risk of leaving on a free, they can't replace him. And he's a proper professional who will give it everything.

Kane has put himself in this position and will struggle to get a move. Age, injury issues, Spurs not needing to sell, Levy being a tough guy to deal with and Covid hitting the market. 

I reckon due to his nature, leadership qualities and ability to drop deep Pep and City will be the only serious buyers. Money is nothing to them. Utd are potential but they'd need to offload some deadweights in Martial and Pogba. Then again, they couldn't even land Haaland, Sancho or Bellingham with no competition and a bigger budget so who knows. But let's not forget Spurs could win a trophy and finish in the Top 4 this season.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Perfectly good tackle 😜. But compare it to th Baldock tackle on Roberts last week which didn't even get a booking or looked at by VAR and you can see why Leeds fans are annoyed.

But just the general inconsistency. The Alioski booking which was a clear dive. Stirling stamping on two Leeds players.
Fernandinho should have got a straight red for his challenge at the end.
		
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I just don’t understand refs.
Cooper followed through but got the ball.
Fernandinho followed through nowhere near the ball , that’s a red every day of the week , it’s an assault.


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## Rlburnside (Apr 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I think Spurs will see Kane for 2 years worth the risk of leaving on a free, they can't replace him. And he's a proper professional who will give it everything.

Kane has put himself in this position and will struggle to get a move. Age, injury issues, Spurs not needing to sell, Levy being a tough guy to deal with and Covid hitting the market.

I reckon due to his nature, leadership qualities and ability to drop deep Pep and City will be the only serious buyers. Money is nothing to them. Utd are potential but they'd need to offload some deadweights in Martial and Pogba. Then again, they couldn't even land Haaland, Sancho or Bellingham with no competition and a bigger budget so who knows. But let's not forget Spurs could win a trophy and finish in the Top 4 this season.
		
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Let’s not forget this is Spurs, we won’t beat City and I dont think we will finish in the top 4. 

Then hopefully we will get a new manager


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## fundy (Apr 11, 2021)

So its ok to kick someones head in the pen box these days. VAR just a joke


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## fundy (Apr 11, 2021)

not a foul, yet you can be sent off for winning the ball these days


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## Reemul (Apr 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			not a foul, yet you can be sent off for winning the ball these days

View attachment 36118

Click to expand...

Yeah thatw as a joke, would have been a free kick every day of the week somewhere else on the pitch


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			So its ok to kick someones head in the pen box these days. VAR just a joke
		
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It’s not VAR as such it’s the muppets that are watching the screens and deciding that’s a ok tackle.
We can have all the tech in the world but if the people operating it can’t see that then it’s not worth having imo.
Where do they get the refs from these days.
I would like to hear an explanation from the var ref as to why that’s not a foul.


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t see him leaving because I don’t think a club will pay the fee Spurs will demand for him

if clubs are going to spend over £100mil then they will look at players like Mbappe and Haaland

Kane will be 28 in the summer - has had a lot of ankle issues plus a few other injuries ( 13 in over the last 8 years ) - I don’t see what club will pay over the odds for him. £60 mil ish then yep
		
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28 is no age nowadays. The only out-and-out striker who's probably better than Kane right now is Lewandowski and he's 32. I would love to believe his glass ankles will put people off, but even with the injuries he's still played 30 league games a season, he is a machine who always get fit again sooner than expected. It's not like he's missing half seasons like Aguero.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Wow ........................ Messi Lingard does it again, and what a superb strike!
Can't wait to get him back.


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## DanFST (Apr 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Wow ........................ Messi Lingard does it again, and what a superb strike!
Can't wait to get him back.
		
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If he goes back.


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Wow ........................ Messi Lingard does it again, and what a superb strike!
Can't wait to get him back.
		
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He was never this good for United at any point. Can't see him going back to sit on the bench, if he had any sense he'll push for a permanent move.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2021)

What a goal from lingard


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He was never this good for United at any point. Can't see him going back to sit on the bench, if he had any sense he'll push for a permanent move.
		
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Get him in at yours. Bin off smelly alli


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			What a goal from lingard
		
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That was a class finish, felt like a mishit until you saw the replay from behind. Clipped it perfectly around the defender.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That was a class finish, felt like a mishit until you saw the replay from behind. Clipped it perfectly around the defender.
		
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United fan at work reckons 45 mil now lol 

Give them 25 tops 

He has one year on his contract


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			United fan at work reckons 45 mil now lol

Give them 25 tops

He has one year on his contract
		
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Home Grown tax to factor in, but yeah, OGS clearly didn't rate him, and if he's got one year to go they can't ask for much.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Home Grown tax to factor in, but yeah, OGS clearly didn't rate him, and if he's got one year to go they can't ask for much.
		
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Not a chance with the contract situation tho 

Home grown tax or not he will go cheap due to the contract situation


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2021)

Lovely goal from Bowen. Really rate him 

Think he fills in nicely for Antonio


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2021)

We defo love to keep the games interesting


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## DanFST (Apr 11, 2021)

Amazing how we mess up the bed when we go 3-0. 

It's like some Soviet mind control.


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## nickjdavis (Apr 11, 2021)

Reemul said:



			Yeah thatw as a joke, would have been a free kick every day of the week somewhere else on the pitch
		
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Exactly that happened in the 2nd half!!!! Ref had no difficulty in blowing up for a free kick!!!


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Ridiculous decision.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 11, 2021)

If this is disallowed it’s a booking and he has to go.
Pathetic how crap football is.


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## Junior (Apr 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			If this is disallowed it’s a booking and he has to go.
Pathetic how crap football is.
		
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Unbelievable.......Infact Son trying to grab mctominay in the first instance is a free kick.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Ridiculous decision.
		
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Why ?

His hand made a movement back and caught him in the face ? Its a foul - soft yes 

Pogba seemed to be the worst swinging arm


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## Tashyboy (Apr 11, 2021)

Var looks at the accidental hand in the face and a goals disallowed, but Rashford gets caught from behind edge of box and it don’t go to VAR. 😳


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## pokerjoke (Apr 11, 2021)

I absolutely hate what Var has done to football it’s really taken the enjoyment out of the game for me.
I’ve been a Utd supporter for 49 years and couldn’t give a hoot if Liverpool won the league for the next 49


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Thank God Sonny's eyesight was ok after that punch in the face from McTomminay, or he might have missed that finish.


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## fundy (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Thank God Sonny's eyesight was ok after that punch in the face from McTomminay, or he might have missed that finish. 

Click to expand...

disgusting McTominay not dismissed for such a vicious act


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Son really is a nasty little man.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I absolutely hate what Var has done to football it’s really taken the enjoyment out of the game for me.
I’ve been a Utd supporter for 49 years and couldn’t give a hoot if Liverpool won the league for the next 49
		
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Utter bollocks.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Utter bollocks.
		
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I hope your balls recover
What’s “utter” never heard of it


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 11, 2021)

Is this:

A. A football match.

B. A slapping/elbowing/hand off world championships and ensuing trying to get the other player booked/sent off contest?


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I hope your balls recover
What’s “utter” never heard of it
		
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Lets face it you couldnt handle Liverpool wining it the other year for one season, never mind 49.


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Son really is a nasty little man.
		
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You what? Just because he scored against you?


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## Captainron (Apr 11, 2021)

West Ham are the best team in London at the moment. Hasn’t been like that for ages


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You what? Just because he scored against you? 

Click to expand...

No.


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## Junior (Apr 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why ?

His hand made a movement back and caught him in the face ? Its a foul - soft yes

Pogba seemed to be the worst swinging arm
		
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Stop fishing ..... if that's against L'pool you're not calling it a foul.  There's a pen or free kick at every corner kick if that's a foul.


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## fundy (Apr 11, 2021)

Captainron said:



			West Ham are the best team in London at the moment. Hasn’t been like that for ages
		
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Fish dislikes this post


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## Billysboots (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You what? Just because he scored against you? 

Click to expand...

It is a little embarrassing to see Son going down, and then staying down and rolling around, as though he’d just been punched by Mike Tyson in his prime. A stunningly poor decision to direct the referee to review it, and unbelievable that a free kick was awarded.

Son is lucky he wasn’t booked for simulation. Shameful play acting.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why ?

His hand made a movement back and caught him in the face ? Its a foul - soft yes
		
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I hope you watched the half time analysis, then you'd know why it was a ridiculous decision ...................... or are the ex-players all wrong too?


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## Fade and Die (Apr 11, 2021)

Captainron said:



			West Ham are the best team in London at the moment. *Hasn’t been like that for ages*

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Tbh it’s never been like that before 😂


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## pokerjoke (Apr 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Lets face it you couldnt handle Liverpool wining it the other year for one season, never mind 49.
		
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True,however it was the weakest p/l ever.
40 point turnaround this year,so far


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			It is a little embarrassing to see Son going down, and then staying down and rolling around, as though he’d just been punched by Mike Tyson in his prime. A stunningly poor decision to direct the referee to review it, and unbelievable that a free kick was awarded.

Son is lucky he wasn’t booked for simulation. Shameful play acting.
		
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Have you never been poked in the eye? It does hurt. I don't blame him for going down at all, but everything that happened after that was down to the officials.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I hope you watched the half time analysis, then you'd know why it was a ridiculous decision ...................... or are the ex-players all wrong too?
		
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You must be thankful it was just a foul and not a second booking - could have been sat in the stands


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## Jensen (Apr 11, 2021)

Son went down like he’d been shot. Pathetic as it is it’s the law and really McTominay was stupid to do it.


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## Billysboots (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Have you never been poked in the eye? It does hurt. I don't blame him for going down at all, but everything that happened after that was down to the officials.
		
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In the event I have been, I haven’t rolled around, kicking my legs like a newborn, and then remained on the ground, being treated by medics for five minutes (or until a free kick had been awarded in my favour, whichever comes sooner).

Embarrassing behaviour. And never a foul as long as I’ve a hole in my backside.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Have you never been *poked in the eye?* It does hurt. I don't blame him for going down at all, but everything that happened after that was down to the officials.
		
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Poked in the eye.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			In the event I have been, I haven’t rolled around, kicking my legs like a newborn, and then remained on the ground, being treated by medics for five minutes (or until a free kick had been awarded in my favour, whichever comes sooner).

Embarrassing behaviour. And never a foul as long as I’ve a hole in my backside.
		
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Standard reaction of all footballers these days - only the slightest touch and they are mortally wounded for about 30 secs to a min - Rashford was the same about 5 mins before - was kicked on his leg but rolling around holding his face. They are all at it


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			True,however it was the weakest p/l ever.
40 point turnaround this year,so far
		
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ha, ha, I'd ask you to back that up, but you dont have the nous to argue it, so it will save you a job.


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## Billysboots (Apr 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Standard reaction of all footballers these days - only the slightest touch and they are mortally wounded for about 30 secs to a min - Rashford was the same about 5 mins before - was kicked on his leg but rolling around holding his face. They are all at it
		
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I can promise you, as a United regular, it infuriates me when Rashford goes down so easily. And the grief Ronaldo used to get from the Stretford End faithful in his early United career was amusing - you don’t expect home supporters to give their own players stick for going to ground easily but we pay to watch football. Not a bunch of play actors.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Fred scores a goal ............................. hilarious.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I can promise you, as a United regular, it infuriates me when Rashford goes down so easily. And the grief Ronaldo used to get from the Stretford End faithful in his early United career was amusing - you don’t expect home supporters to give their own players stick for going to ground easily *but we pay to watch football. Not a bunch of play actors.*

Click to expand...

Agreed.
As I said earlier, if there wasn't all this constant cheating, VAR would not be such an issue.
Then we'd be discussing football, not officiating.


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Poked in the eye.  

Click to expand...

Did you not watch the video? He very clearly caught him in the face. The only question was whether it was a foul. Most people would have said no but the ref decided yes.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Did you not watch the video? He very clearly caught him in the face. The only question was whether it was a foul. Most people would have said no but the ref decided yes.
		
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Yes I did see it.
He was merely brushed on the chin/cheek, not 'Poked in the eye' as someone suggested.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I can promise you, as a United regular, it infuriates me when Rashford goes down so easily. And the grief Ronaldo used to get from the Stretford End faithful in his early United career was amusing - you don’t expect home supporters to give their own players stick for going to ground easily but we pay to watch football. Not a bunch of play actors.
		
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All over social media people point out opposition players etc but every single team have them and indeed it’s harder to find a player who won’t go down when given the slightest touch - a lot of it also comes down to referees not giving players free kicks when they are impeded but don’t get a free kick. It won’t change though unfortunately


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Yes I did see it.
He was merely brushed on the chin/cheek, not 'Poked in the eye' as someone suggested.
		
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Obviously watched it with your red glasses on - take them off and watch it again. The hand went towards his face not across it so it would have struck him not brushed him. Definitely would have hurt and you'd definitely go down.


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## Billysboots (Apr 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All over social media people point out opposition players etc but every single team have them and indeed it’s harder to find a player who won’t go down when given the slightest touch - a lot of it also comes down to referees not giving players free kicks when they are impeded but don’t get a free kick. It won’t change though unfortunately
		
Click to expand...

Every club does indeed have them. And I’ll give a big shout out for Bruno Fernandes before anyone else does!


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Obviously watched it with your red glasses on - take them off and watch it again. The hand went towards his face not across it so it would have struck him not brushed him. *Definitely would have hurt and you'd definitely go down.*

Click to expand...

You've got me confused with someone else.
'Poked in the eye'.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Every club does indeed have them. And I’ll give a big shout out for Bruno Fernandes before anyone else does!
		
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And you can add Cavani, Rashford and Martial to that list.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Will justice actually be served?


What is it with Spurs trying to preserve a lead?
Who will JM blame for this, if the score remains as is, because it won't be himself?


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Cavani is just too good for our rubbish defenders. I don't think they ever once knew where he was all game. 

What's the point of bringing on Bale for the last 9 minutes? What the hell happened to that great form that he hit? And then we stopped playing him altogether. Infuriating.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Cavani is just too good for our rubbish defenders. I don't think they ever once knew where he was all game.

What's the point of bringing on Bale for the last 9 minutes? What the hell happened to that great form that he hit? And then we stopped playing him altogether. Infuriating.
		
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Golf courses opened


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

That'll do!

This is better than watching The Masters!


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## Jensen (Apr 11, 2021)

Jose Mourinho 🙄🙄

He takes off N’Dombele and brings on Lamela then we go 2-1 down. 
Tactician genius 🤣


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## Junior (Apr 11, 2021)

3-1 against 12 men.  I'll take that.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 11, 2021)

That’s the first time I have seen utd play anything like they could and should. 3rd and 4 th is getting interesting with the door slowly opening for Liverpool.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			That’s the first time I have seen utd play anything like they could and should. 3rd and 4 th is getting interesting with *the door slowly opening for Liverpool.*

Click to expand...

And if Everton win their games in hand it will be even more interesting.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 11, 2021)

I see Leicester dropped 3 players inc Maddison for a Covid breach. Al bet Rodgers was livid.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I see Leicester dropped 3 players inc Maddison for a Covid breach. Al bet Rodgers was livid.
		
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I see Spurs dropped three points from a winning position. Al bet Mourinho was livid.


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## Rlburnside (Apr 11, 2021)

Didn’t watch the match played golf instead having just read the match report glad I didn’t watch as it panned out as I expected. 

Hopefully Levy will see sense and get rid of Jose when we loose to City


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



*Didn’t watch the match played golf instead* having just read the match report glad I didn’t watch as it panned out as I expected.

Hopefully Levy will see sense and get rid of Jose when we loose to City
		
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Bloody fantastic decision.


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## Billysboots (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Bloody fantastic decision.
		
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I’ve said it a few times, but the decision to appoint Mourinho was a really odd one. His CV, whilst including undoubted successes, is littered with acrimonious fallings out with players and clubs.

I still vividly recall leaving Wembley back in 2016 after United had won the FA Cup, and listening to the news breaking on 606 that LVG was out and Mourinho was lined up as his successor. My lad, aged 12 at the time, was chuffed to bits. My heart was sinking.

I said to him that if he thought football was dull under LVG, and it was desperately poor, then he really would be bored senseless by Mourinho’s tactics. And so it turned out. Sure, he won a trophy or two, but no real building for the future, and I knew he would eventually leave us no better off and with broken relationships in his wake. That’s exactly how it turned out.

When Spurs went for him I was stunned. I said back then there would be a honeymoon period during which he was all smiles, but that within 18 months he’d be turning on his players in public when they failed to sit on a 1-0 lead. And look where we are now.

A great coach back in the day. But a very poor manager. He’ll be gone before Christmas and I will eat my golf socks if another Premier League club ever appoints him.

And if you’d ever seen my golf socks make their own way to the laundry basket you’d know what a shout that is.


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve said it a few times, but the decision to appoint Mourinho was a really odd one. His CV, whilst including undoubted successes, is littered with acrimonious fallings out with players and clubs.

I still vividly recall leaving Wembley back in 2016 after United had won the FA Cup, and listening to the news breaking on 606 that LVG was out and Mourinho was lined up as his successor. My lad, aged 12 at the time, was chuffed to bits. My heart was sinking.

I said to him that if he thought football was dull under LVG, and it was desperately poor, then he really would be bored senseless by Mourinho’s tactics. And so it turned out. Sure, he won a trophy or two, but no real building for the future, and I knew he would eventually leave us no better off and with broken relationships in his wake. That’s exactly how it turned out.

When Spurs went for him I was stunned. I said back then there would be a honeymoon period during which he was all smiles, but that within 18 months he’d be turning on his players in public when they failed to sit on a 1-0 lead. And look where we are now.

A great coach back in the day. But a very poor manager. He’ll be gone before Christmas and I will eat my golf socks if another Premier League club ever appoints him.

And if you’d ever seen my golf socks make their own way to the laundry basket you’d know what a shout that is.
		
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Personally I don't care about style if we win. Winning is fun. The fans who care more about style seem to be the fans who have seen their club win stuff already. Spurs is a club massively overdue trophies, so appointing a guy who is known for winning trophies everywhere he's been is not an odd decision at all, it's a no-brainer. His style is not unfortunate for us because it's dull, it's unfortunate because it doesn't work unless you have top class defenders (we don't, at all), and he's completely unwilling to be flexible and try something else. So we will lose the cup final, we will finish 7th in the league and miss Europe entirely, and then he will be sacked. And potentially Kane will be off.


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## Billysboots (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Personally I don't care about style if we win. Winning is fun. The fans who care more about style seem to be the fans who have seen their club win stuff already. Spurs is a club massively overdue trophies, so appointing a guy who is known for winning trophies everywhere he's been is not an odd decision at all, it's a no-brainer. His style is not unfortunate for us because it's dull, it's unfortunate because it doesn't work unless you have top class defenders (we don't, at all), and he's completely unwilling to be flexible and try something else. So we will lose the cup final, we will finish 7th in the league and miss Europe entirely, and then he will be sacked. And potentially Kane will be off.
		
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Excellent post. I hadn’t really considered it from the perspective of a club overdue success, so in that respect the decision perhaps makes more sense.

But I do think there is a lot of merit in the words “What price success?”. United needed a trophy in the years after Ferguson finished, for entirely different reasons to Spurs. And whilst the Europa League win against Ajax in itself was welcome, there was always an underlying knowledge that it was achieved under a manager who is only ever interested in short term success.

So whilst a trophy for Spurs under Mourinho would be welcome, if the bigger picture is one of a club going backwards I do still question whether he’s a manager you would want to stick with.


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Excellent post. I hadn’t really considered it from the perspective of a club overdue success, so in that respect the decision perhaps makes more sense.

But I do think there is a lot of merit in the words “What price success?”. United needed a trophy in the years after Ferguson finished, for entirely different reasons to Spurs. And whilst the Europa League win against Ajax in itself was welcome, there was always an underlying knowledge that it was achieved under a manager who is only ever interested in short term success.

So whilst a trophy for Spurs under Mourinho would be welcome, if the bigger picture is one of a club going backwards *I do still question whether he’s a manager you would want to stick with.*

Click to expand...

Well not now! It clearly hasn't worked! Haha. I've no idea where we go next though.


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## Billysboots (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well not now! It clearly hasn't worked! Haha. I've no idea where we go next though.
		
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I think Brendan Rodgers would be a great fit at Spurs. But if Leicester finish top four I can’t see him leaving the King Power.


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I think Brendan Rodgers would be a great fit at Spurs. But if Leicester finish top four I can’t see him leaving the King Power.
		
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He'd be bloody mad to.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I think Brendan Rodgers would be a great fit at Spurs. But if Leicester finish top four I can’t see him leaving the King Power.
		
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I'd class Brendan Rodgers as an elite manager, what he's done at Leicester has been superb.
I think I'd take him over anybody if Ole was to leave United.
He's far superior to Mourinho, far superior.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'd class Brendan Rodgers as an elite manager, what he's done at Leicester has been superb.
I think I'd take him over anybody if Ole was to leave United.
He's far superior to Mourinho, far superior.
		
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An Elite manager ? 

Surely to be an “elite manager” would need to include winning major trophies ? 

I suspect Rodgers is another manager who is comfortable at clubs just below the top level who don’t have that much pressure and can provide a few surprises to over achieve


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			An Elite manager ?

Surely to be an “elite manager” would need to include winning major trophies ?

I suspect Rodgers is another manager who is comfortable at clubs just below the top level who don’t have that much pressure and can provide a few surprises to over achieve
		
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Like he was at Liverpool?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Like he was at Liverpool?
		
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Always pressure at Liverpool to succeed and he didn’t - he even had a chance and blew it. He was never good enough to manage Liverpool


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## Tashyboy (Apr 11, 2021)

City have taken the League cup serious since Pep turned up. Stating it’s a trophy. Yet the amount of times I have read “yeah but it’s not a Major trophy, Nothing to get excited about”. Yet now I get the impression it’s a massive trophy if Spurs were to win it. 🤔


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			City have taken the League cup serious since Pep turned up. Stating it’s a trophy. Yet the amount of times I have read “yeah but it’s not a Major trophy, Nothing to get excited about”. Yet now I get the impression it’s a massive trophy if Spurs were to win it. 🤔
		
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I'd love us to win the league cup

Never got how it's not highly regarded. Yes you don't get the lower teams but that surely makes it harder to win


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## Tashyboy (Apr 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd love us to win the league cup

Never got how it's not highly regarded. Yes you don't get the lower teams but that surely makes it harder to win
		
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knowing City’s luck it will be another Ricky Villa FA cup day.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You what? Just because he scored against you? 

Click to expand...

Ask Gomez from Everton if he’s a nice person.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Ask Gomez from Everton if he’s a nice person.
		
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I've said it many times 

He's a snide player 

He's not a "nice guy"

Don't buy that routine


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## Rlburnside (Apr 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			knowing City’s luck it will be another Ricky Villa FA cup day.
		
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They say you make your own luck but in City’s case you just buy it.👍


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Always pressure at Liverpool to succeed and he didn’t - he even had a chance and blew it. He was never good enough to manage Liverpool
		
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Got to love the self importance of some fans of the big clubs. Yeah, because we're Liverpool and we deserve better than Brendan Rodgers. We hadn't won the league for over 20 years before he came but we still deserve elite managers coming to our club because we're so entitled. If it hadn't been for "Slippy" Gerrard falling over at an inopportune moment we could've won the league under Rodgers and then I'd be praising him to the rafters but because I can't criticise Saint Stephen of Gerrard I'm going to lay all of the blame on Brendan.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			knowing City’s luck it will be another Ricky Villa FA cup day.
		
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You had a bit of luck this weekend to finish with 11 men.
Fernandinho is a disgrace.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Got to love the self importance of some fans of the big clubs. Yeah, because we're Liverpool and we deserve better than Brendan Rodgers. We hadn't won the league for over 20 years before he came but we still deserve elite managers coming to our club because we're so entitled. If it hadn't been for "Slippy" Gerrard falling over at an inopportune moment we could've won the league under Rodgers and then I'd be praising him to the rafters but because I can't criticise Saint Stephen of Gerrard I'm going to lay all of the blame on Brendan.
		
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I think your making that up  for yourself there, it doesnt have to be one or the other.

For my mind, BR is a great manager and I think he would do very well given a big budget that the likes of most of the top 6-7 have squandered over the last 4-5 years.


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## Slime (Apr 12, 2021)

Someone should tell Mourinho that he's not as clever as he thinks he is, he really is embarrassing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Got to love the self importance of some fans of the big clubs. Yeah, because we're Liverpool and we deserve better than Brendan Rodgers. We hadn't won the league for over 20 years before he came but we still deserve elite managers coming to our club because we're so entitled. If it hadn't been for "Slippy" Gerrard falling over at an inopportune moment we could've won the league under Rodgers and then I'd be praising him to the rafters but because I can't criticise Saint Stephen of Gerrard I'm going to lay all of the blame on Brendan.
		
Click to expand...

🙄
oh dear

Imagine a fan not thinking a manager/player isn’t good enough for their club - imagine it being so rare 🙄

Rodgers is a good manager and I believe he is at the exact level of club right now 

I didn’t think he was good enough when he became our manager and over the 3 and bit seasons he showed that. As for the title challenge - we dropped 5 points in the last three games to lose by two points - mainly because of the way he set up the team, Gerrard slipping cost one goal , Rodgers set up over those final games cost the title.  The next season once again showed he just wasn’t the manager to give Liverpool fans what they wanted ( not what they believe they are “entitled” too ). 

He isn’t the first manager that fans don’t think is golf enough for the club and he won’t be the last


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## DanFST (Apr 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Rodgers is a good manager and I believe he is at the exact level of club right now
		
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One that will have Champions league next year?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 12, 2021)

DanFST said:



			One that will have Champions league next year? 

Click to expand...

Potentially he may well do or he may well miss out again just like last year 

And if he does let’s hope he makes a better effort than his other attempts.


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## DanFST (Apr 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Potentially he may well do or he may well miss out again just like last year

And if he does let’s hope he makes a better effort than his other attempts.
		
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I think they may well miss out, Vardy is having a mare. 

I very much dislike Rodgers anyway.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🙄
oh dear

Imagine a fan not thinking a manager/player isn’t good enough for their club - imagine it being so rare 🙄

Rodgers is a good manager and I believe he is at the exact level of club right now

I didn’t think he was good enough when he became our manager and over the 3 and bit seasons he showed that. As for the title challenge - we dropped 5 points in the last three games to lose by two points - mainly because of the way he set up the team, Gerrard slipping cost one goal , Rodgers set up over those final games cost the title.  The next season once again showed he just wasn’t the manager to give Liverpool fans what they wanted ( not what they believe they are “entitled” too ).

He isn’t the first manager that fans don’t think is golf enough for the club and he won’t be the last
		
Click to expand...

I dont think you can put it all on him.

Defenders not following runners (Palace game), and I actually agreed with him putting Coutinho on for more goals at 3-0 as we were battering them by HT and should have been 6-7 up, as it could have went down to goal difference.

The following season losing Suarez and Sturridge being injured every 5 minutes would see anyone struggle.

I'm not saying he was perfect, as should have replaced Mignolet earlier, but he should have also been backed more, financially, by the owners at the time.

I still think he would do a very good job if he had City/chelsea/Man united/Everton's spend over the last few years, and you can't discount what he did at Celtic. No matter what the circumstances, winning all domestic trophies and going a season unbeaten is still some achievement.

He had big defensive problems that would have taken £60-90 million at the time to sort out, but he played some of the most attractive football Liverpool have ever played, and the premiership has seen.

2 Liverpool fans with differing opinions, who'd have thunk it?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think you can put it all on him.

Defenders not following runners (Palace game), and I actually agreed with him putting Coutinho on for more goals at 3-0 as we were battering them by HT and should have been 6-7 up, as it could have went down to goal difference.

The following season losing Suarez and Sturridge being injured every 5 minutes would see anyone struggle.

I'm not saying he was perfect, as should have replaced Mignolet earlier, but he should have also been backed more, financially, by the owners at the time.

I still think he would do a very good job if he had City/chelsea/Man united/Everton's spend over the last few years, and you can't discount what he did at Celtic. No matter what the circumstances, winning all domestic trophies and going a season unbeaten is still some achievement.

He had big defensive problems that would have taken £60-90 million at the time to sort out, but he played some of the most attractive football Liverpool have ever played, and the premiership has seen.

2 Liverpool fans with differing opinions, who'd have thunk it? 

Click to expand...

It’s never always down to the manager but those games against Chelsea and Palace should have been played a bit more differently 

He spent £200mil in three seasons at the club 

He was successful at Celtic - but in Europe with the same Celtic ? Not so much 

Decent manager - who maybe Arsenal should have looked at but I don’t think he has justified a top club giving him a chance along with lots of money. 

He did play exciting football during one season and was good to watch - but so was Evans teams in 90’s at times. Just need a bit more to make the step up to being a top elite manager as such. Maybe he will if given another chance.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s never always down to the manager but those games against Chelsea and Palace should have been played a bit more differently

He spent £200mil in three seasons at the club

He was successful at Celtic - but in Europe with the same Celtic ? Not so much

Decent manager - who maybe Arsenal should have looked at but I don’t think he has justified a top club giving him a chance along with lots of money.

He did play exciting football during one season and was good to watch - but so was Evans teams in 90’s at times. Just need a bit more to make the step up to being a top elite manager as such. Maybe he will if given another chance.
		
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Give over Phil,you spent endless hours on here telling us how good he was & defending him if anyone criticised him 🙄


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## fundy (Apr 12, 2021)

wow VAR has outdone itself with the West Brom goal disallowed tonight, cant class him as onside because they cant see where his shoulder is, utterly ridiculous

thats at least 4 hideous decisions on goals this weekend, not to mention getting multiple red cards wrong (or not advising them)


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## SaintHacker (Apr 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			wow VAR has outdone itself with the West Brom goal disallowed tonight, cant class him as onside because they cant see where his shoulder is, utterly ridiculous

thats at least 4 hideous decisions on goals this weekend, not to mention getting multiple red cards wrong (or not advising them)
		
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That was a laughable decision,  along with the reason for it. 
They have to bin var next season its beyond a joke how bad it actually is


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s never always down to the manager but those games against Chelsea and Palace should have been played a bit more differently

He spent £200mil in three seasons at the club

He was successful at Celtic - but in Europe with the same Celtic ? Not so much

Decent manager - who maybe Arsenal should have looked at but I don’t think he has justified a top club giving him a chance along with lots of money.

He did play exciting football during one season and was good to watch - but so was Evans teams in 90’s at times. Just need a bit more to make the step up to being a top elite manager as such. Maybe he will if given another chance.
		
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See, told you I was right.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2021)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/56748752.amp


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/56748752.amp

View attachment 36177

Click to expand...


someone get em a grey kit


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 14, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382402426611847170
🤦‍♂️ Muppets


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382402426611847170
🤦‍♂️ Muppets
		
Click to expand...

Can people ever just behave 

Regardless of club, nation whatever 

Just don't be prats


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 14, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382402426611847170
🤦‍♂️ Muppets
		
Click to expand...

Absoloutly agree .


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Can people ever just behave

Regardless of club, nation whatever

Just don't be prats
		
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Scumbags mate.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			someone get em a grey kit 

Click to expand...

Someone said that it was 25 years ago now 😲



clubchamp98 said:



			Absoloutly agree .
		
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Hopefully they will find the idiots that did it - shame when fans let their club and of course ,Some people scour social media just looking for the worse in people,sad really.


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## Slime (Apr 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Can people ever just behave

Regardless of club, nation whatever

Just don't be prats
		
Click to expand...

There's no vaccine for stupid.


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## Slime (Apr 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Someone said that it was 25 years ago now 😲



Hopefully they will find the idiots that did it - shame when fans let their club and of course ,*Some people scour social media just looking for the worse in people*,sad really.
		
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No need to scour social media, it's on the BBC Sport website.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56753861


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			No need to scour social media, it's on the BBC Sport website.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56753861

Click to expand...

😉
 Hopefully they can find the idiots 

great start to this game - could be a classic , shame there are no fans , atmosphere would be amazing


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			There's no vaccine for stupid.
		
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And even if there was, you'd never be able to convince those most in need to take it.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😉
Hopefully they can find the idiots

great start to this game - could be a classic , shame there are no fans , atmosphere would be amazing
		
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The fans would be going crazy with the poor finishing .
Mo should score there piss poor finish.
Can’t belive Jotas not playing when we need goals.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2021)

Played a lot better tonight but just not taking the chances - had plenty tonight to be winning this but you got to take them. Got to get top 4 now


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 14, 2021)

Great performance from City tonight.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 14, 2021)

Great defensive performance from Real.
We had our chances .
But the damage was done in the first leg.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 14, 2021)

I wouldn’t be too surprised if we got an all PL Champions League Final, here’s hoping.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 14, 2021)

Well done to City and Chelsea.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 14, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I wouldn’t be too surprised if we got an all PL Champions League Final, here’s hoping.

Click to expand...

Read a thing the other day that if Chelsea or Liverpool won the champs league and Arsenal the Europa league. Whoever finishes fourth in the league does not get champs league next year but Europa.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 14, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I wouldn’t be too surprised if we got an all PL Champions League Final, here’s hoping.

Click to expand...

City’s defence will be tested against PSG.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Read a thing the other day that if Chelsea or Liverpool won the champs league and Arsenal the Europa league. Whoever finishes fourth in the league does not get champs league next year but Europa.
		
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Who cares


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2021)

Well damage was done in the first game , they just sat back and soaked up the pressure - got to hope that they continue all the way through. Zidane could win his 4th CL - amazing , maybe he should be more revered as a manager.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😉
Hopefully they can find the idiots
		
Click to expand...

Pure knobheads.


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Read a thing the other day that if Chelsea or Liverpool won the champs league and Arsenal the Europa league. Whoever finishes fourth in the league does not get champs league next year but Europa.
		
Click to expand...

Here is the answer my man. trust you are well especially after tonight’s result.

In the event that a Premier League club win the UEFA Champions League and another win the UEFA Europa League and neither of these clubs finish in the top four of the Premier League, the club lying fourth in the table will drop into the UEFA Europa League group stage.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 15, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Here is the answer my man. trust you are well especially after tonight’s result.

In the event that a Premier League club win the UEFA Champions League and another win the UEFA Europa League and neither of these clubs finish in the top four of the Premier League, the club lying fourth in the table will drop into the UEFA Europa League group stage.
		
Click to expand...

Last night was an odd un, I don’t have BT but lad was watching it on his iPad and screaming and shouting watching the game. He said City played really well. But apart from seeing the goals, Ave. it seen a lot. What is pleasing is keeping Haaland quiet. That said , the semi v PSG Is very very tough. The other semi between Real and Chelsea is very tough to call.


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 15, 2021)

When I saw Mahrez had scored the equaliser from a penalty I was so happy I don't have BT Sport...my nerves would have been shot!

For the first time this year I really,really want us to win Champions League - I don't like wanting something from City that much


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 15, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			When I saw Mahrez had scored the equaliser from a penalty I was so happy I don't have BT Sport...my nerves would have been shot!

For the first time this year I really,really want us to win Champions League - I don't like wanting something from City that much 

Click to expand...

As my sister often says, Liverpool fan, 'it's the hope that kills you' .

I hope City do win.


----------



## DanFST (Apr 15, 2021)

Odd that when West Ham Threw bottles at the Manchester United bus, we were castigated in the media, talks of points deductions, arrests etc. 

Isn't this the third one Liverpool fans have smashed in a relatively short space of time?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Odd that when West Ham Threw bottles at the Manchester United bus, we were castigated in the media, talks of points deductions, arrests etc.

Isn't this the third one Liverpool fans have smashed in a relatively short space of time?
		
Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56753861

Club being fined and police investigating - so club is being highlighted in the media and been sanctioned


----------



## fundy (Apr 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56753861

Club being fined and police investigating - so club is being highlighted in the media and been sanctioned
		
Click to expand...


Time for them to be made an example of imho, should be banned from Europe next year and their place go to the next team in line in the Premier League


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## PieMan (Apr 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			Time for them to be made an example of imho, should be banned from Europe next year and their place go to the next team in line in the Premier League 

Click to expand...

As long as that's Everton.............😉 😂 😂


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## DanFST (Apr 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56753861

Club being fined and police investigating - so club is being highlighted in the media and been sanctioned
		
Click to expand...








Just seems pretty inconsistent. Haven't heard it mentioned on Talksport this morning. Also the bus didn't delay the game, United ignored the MET's requests, and turned up late.

Still, as long as idiots like this get banned and arrested up and down the country.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2021)

PieMan said:



			As long as that's Everton.............😉 😂 😂
		
Click to expand...

its ok - they are already in Europe next year - 

Pre season Tour to Ireland 😁


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## PieMan (Apr 15, 2021)

All I'll say on the matter of the damage to the Real Madrid team bus is that no true, decent, Liverpool fan would do anything to damage the reputation of the club on the eve of the anniversary of the saddest day in their club's long and illustrious history.

Those that did so last night should be ashamed of themselves; and I hope they are identified and issued with a lengthy ban from football grounds across the country.


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2021)

haha Dulux social media had some fun with their new partner 

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/...al-partners-mock-trophy-record-twitter-957717


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 15, 2021)

PieMan said:



			All I'll say on the matter of the damage to the Real Madrid team bus is that no true, decent, Liverpool fan would do anything to damage the reputation of the club on the eve of the anniversary of the saddest day in their club's long and illustrious history.

Those that did so last night should be ashamed of themselves; and I hope they are identified and issued with a lengthy ban from football grounds across the country.
		
Click to expand...

Shouldn’t be hard to identify some of them and it’s not exactly, just a few, or all just kids, plus why aren’t the Police moving them on or breaking the crowd up, surely the Social distancing rules are still in place?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382411562581905414


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## DanFST (Apr 15, 2021)

Showed those Spaniards. Meanwhile a local coach company has to pay an excess to repair the damage. 

There should be an IQ test to be affiliated with a football team.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 15, 2021)

I think the police need to investigate why there is a Ships Chandlers based outside the stadium. What is it with the flares?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			haha Dulux social media had some fun with their new partner

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/...al-partners-mock-trophy-record-twitter-957717

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382617750401658886
😂


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382617750401658886
😂
		
Click to expand...


just magic


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## SaintHacker (Apr 15, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Showed those Spaniards. Meanwhile a local coach company has to pay an excess to repair the damage.

There should be an IQ test to be affiliated with a football team.
		
Click to expand...

Will be a bit more than an excess. Most companies are self insured up to at least the first £250k of any claim. Those windows are a minimum of £1000 just for a basic non tinted job.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Will be a bit more than an excess. Most companies are self insured up to at least the first £250k of any claim. Those windows are a minimum of £1000 just for a basic non tinted job.
		
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that any damage costs will end up being paid by the club


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## pokerjoke (Apr 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Great defensive performance from Real.
We had our chances .
But the damage was done in the first leg.
		
Click to expand...

Sometimes I wonder what game your watching.
How is it a great defensive performance when you had so many clear cut chances,if it’s a great defensive performance the other team has few chances.
The one season wonder had golden opportunities and fluffed his lines.
Without a crowd behind them I thought Liverpool played well but as others say you have to take your chances.
I don’t know how long Shakira had on the pitch but he couldn’t unlock a door if it was wide open.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2021)




----------



## Tashyboy (Apr 15, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			When I saw Mahrez had scored the equaliser from a penalty I was so happy I don't have BT Sport...my nerves would have been shot!

For the first time this year I really,really want us to win Champions League - I don't like wanting something from City that much 

Click to expand...

My lad showed it me on the iPad as it happened. The penalty took some confirming which was bad enough. We actually thought KDB was taking the penalty. Then it showed you Mahrez stood over the ball. A infraction would surely be invoked on myself if I was to repeat on here what me and my lad said.
That said, I just hope we put in a better performance than the last time we were in a semi ( V Real Madrid ) that was purgator.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 15, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Sometimes I wonder what game your watching.
How is it a great defensive performance when you had so many clear cut chances,if it’s a great defensive performance the other team has few chances.
The one season wonder had golden opportunities and fluffed his lines.
Without a crowd behind them I thought Liverpool played well but as others say you have to take your chances.
I don’t know how long Shakira had on the pitch but he couldn’t unlock a door if it was wide open.
		
Click to expand...

Real came for a draw. (You are going to give up chances the way they set up.)
That’s what they got.
We did create chances but there were other instances of very good defending especially the keeper and CBS.
Our forwards and I have said this before many times “ need 7/8 chances to score one .”
Mo is a very poor finisher for me but he scores goals because he gets so many chances, he should have had a hat trick last night.
Then he scores a cracker and all the misses are forgotten.
Our problem this year has been the strikers not the defence most of the time. Imo.
But at the end of the day Real got their 0-0


----------



## paddyc (Apr 15, 2021)

Is no one watching this football exhibition  from the gooners😁😁


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## pendodave (Apr 15, 2021)

As a west Ham supporter, I'm being heavily triggered by the current scoreline...


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2021)

After recent events involved Prague and what the Czech Government minister 
have said I’m glad to see them getting a stuffing right now


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2021)

well that was the most enjoyable 45 minutes footie for a while


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## USER1999 (Apr 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			well that was the most enjoyable 45 minutes footie for a while 

Click to expand...

Down the flat. Mrs Mogs hates footy, so missed it. Glad to hear it went well.


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Down the flat. Mrs Mogs hates footy, so missed it. Glad to hear it went well.
		
Click to expand...


glad to hear youve finally made it back, looked lovely down there today


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 15, 2021)

All PL final in both European comps would be great imo.


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## Slime (Apr 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			All PL final in both European comps would be great imo.
		
Click to expand...

No, not for me.


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## USER1999 (Apr 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			glad to hear youve finally made it back, looked lovely down there today
		
Click to expand...

Went to Vesuvio for lunch, and some Off shore lager. Lovely in the sunshine.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2021)

The level of the “screams” from the players is embarrassing- you would think they were shot or have a lost a left. Interesting to see who screams the loudest


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The level of the “screams” from the players is embarrassing- you would think they were shot or have a lost a left. Interesting to see who screams the loudest
		
Click to expand...

Would be brilliant if someone used a decibel meter to record the screams from different players going down and produced a league table of the loudest ones.


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## Orikoru (Apr 16, 2021)

Well it was fun to see another edition of "whose defence is the crappest" in a Spurs game I guess.   This season cannot end soon enough.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well it was fun to see another edition of "whose defence is the crappest" in a Spurs game I guess.   This season cannot end soon enough.
		
Click to expand...

I honestly cannot believe how this season has gone in the chase for 4th place. Liverpool we’re doing there best to finish 8th at best. West Ham, Leicester, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Aston Villa all having a very good chance of making the top 4 yet most of them have thrown away the chance cementing a place. For me, Liverpool have a very good chance of making a late surge. Wonder how many more twists and turns there will be.


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## Slime (Apr 17, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I honestly cannot believe how this season has gone in the chase for 4th place. Liverpool we’re doing there best to finish 8th at best. West Ham, Leicester, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Aston Villa all having a very good chance of making the top 4 yet most of them have thrown away the chance cementing a place. For me, Liverpool have a very good chance of making a late surge. Wonder how many more twists and turns there will be.
		
Click to expand...

..................... and some people thought United would struggle to get a Europa League spot, let alone a top four spot.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 17, 2021)

Slime said:



			..................... and some people thought United would struggle to get a Europa League spot, let alone a top four spot.
		
Click to expand...

👍 what surprises me the most is it has supposed to of been another rubbish season, but how can you call results. Isn’t that supposed to be the beauty of football. Not knowing what the result will be. Then having the last laugh at the opposition fans that have ripped you to bits 😁


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## fundy (Apr 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would be brilliant if someone used a decibel meter to record the screams from different players going down and produced a league table of the loudest ones.
		
Click to expand...


Arsenal took it to a new level according to Sean Dyche  Embarassing


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2021)

Was listening to Carlton Cole on the way home from golf - he had West Ham in Europe all signed and sealed - well Newcastle putting a big spanner in that 😂 it will be Moyes out soon enough, Flapianski back to his best 😂


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## Slime (Apr 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was listening to Carlton Cole on the way home from golf - he had West Ham in Europe all signed and sealed - well Newcastle putting a big spanner in that 😂 it will be Moyes out soon enough, Flapianski back to his best 😂
		
Click to expand...

You certainly know you're in trouble when Joelinton scores against you!


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2021)

My god. What a game 

Missed entire first half as I'm nights 

Woke up 2-0 down 10 men thought meh just watch 

2-2

Just wow


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2021)

Wow Newcastle sit back all half .. now 3-2 to them 

Some game this


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## Slime (Apr 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			My god. What a game

Missed entire first half as I'm nights

Woke up 2-0 down 10 men thought meh just watch

2-2

Just wow
		
Click to expand...

With Messi Lingard you always have hope, but you're behind again.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2021)

Slime said:



			With Messi Lingard you always have hope, but you're behind again.
		
Click to expand...

What a game though with plenty of postives 

2-0 down with 10 men and we battled back in , yes we lost but never gave up

Lingard again. Now his most ever goals in a premier League season just in 10 games .. mental 

I'd go as far to say there can't be many teams who games are more entertaining to watch as a neutral. So many goals involved ..


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			What a game though with plenty of postives

2-0 down with 10 men and we battled back in , yes we lost but never gave up

Lingard again. Now his most ever goals in a premier League season just in 10 games .. mental

I'd go as far to say there can't be many teams who games are more entertaining to watch as a neutral. So many goals involved ..
		
Click to expand...

I’ve found quite a few of the Liverpool games more entertaining this season,as a neutral 😊😂😂😂😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			I’ve found quite a few of the Liverpool games more entertaining this season,as a neutral 😊😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Does it count as a neutral if you want the team to get thumped 7-0


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2021)

Really pleased for Norwich today. A decent club, well run and a good addition to the PL. I hope they manage to stay up next year and progress from there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2021)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...cks-up-knock-during-2-2-draw-at-goodison-park

Another ankle injury for Kane - Spurs have next to zero chance next week now ,


----------



## fundy (Apr 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...cks-up-knock-during-2-2-draw-at-goodison-park

Another ankle injury for Kane - *Spurs have next to zero chance next week now* ,
		
Click to expand...


so no change then


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## fundy (Apr 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...cks-up-knock-during-2-2-draw-at-goodison-park

Another ankle injury for Kane - Spurs have next to zero chance next week now ,
		
Click to expand...


De Bruyne injury to level it up


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2021)

Good work Chelsea - stops all that quadruple talk now


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## AmandaJR (Apr 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good work Chelsea - stops all that quadruple talk now
		
Click to expand...

Until next season


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## Tashyboy (Apr 17, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Until next season 

Click to expand...

got what we deserved 👍


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## AmandaJR (Apr 17, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			got what we deserved 👍
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. I think we've played the last 3 matches with the focus on just one of them...


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## Tashyboy (Apr 17, 2021)

I thought we played like we did at the start of the season.
Mendy and Sterling should be made to walk back from Wembley To Manchester.


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## Slime (Apr 17, 2021)

I was thinking, and I know I shouldn't, but if City end up winning just the EPL and the Carabao cup would that constitute a disappointing season?
I realise the answer would be no for any other team .......................... but for Man City?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2021)

Slime said:



			I was thinking, and I know I shouldn't, but if City end up winning just the EPL and the Carabao cup would that constitute a disappointing season?
I realise the answer would be no for any other team .......................... but for Man City?
		
Click to expand...

It would mean Liverpool didn't win the premier League so it wouldn't be disappointing


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2021)

Slime said:



			I was thinking, and I know I shouldn't, but if City end up winning just the EPL and the Carabao cup would that constitute a disappointing season?
I realise the answer would be no for any other team .......................... but for Man City?
		
Click to expand...

They are desperate for the CL - that’s the comp that highlights the big teams and it’s the one the owners want - it’s why they brought in Pep


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## Tashyboy (Apr 17, 2021)

Slime said:



			I was thinking, and I know I shouldn't, but if City end up winning just the EPL and the Carabao cup would that constitute a disappointing season?
I realise the answer would be no for any other team .......................... but for Man City?
		
Click to expand...

Just before December I would of been happy to finish in the top four.  City went on a run and all of a sudden the Quad is being talked about. KDB Injury does not look good at all. Take him out and that is massive. I looked at today’s game line up and thought Pep don’t want to show Tuchel a lot should we meet in the champs league final. After today he has shown nowt. We have gone from one of the best displays v Dortmund to one of the worst today.
Me I would be happy with the prem. The champs league is a massive dream. Carabao cup, am fed up of seeing it 😁


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good work Chelsea - stops all that quadruple talk now
		
Click to expand...

And also the treble talk as even if they win everything they've got left to play for it still won't count as a proper treble with the League Cup instead of the FA Cup.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And also the treble talk as even if they win everything they've got left to play for it still won't count as a proper treble with the League Cup instead of the FA Cup.
		
Click to expand...

Why wont it?

Its still 3 major trophies, so its a treble or can't you count?

Maybe not THE treble or the preferred treble, but still a treble of major trophies and not "friendly" trophies.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why wont it?

Its still 3 major trophies, so its a treble or can't you count?

Maybe not THE treble or the preferred treble, but still a treble of major trophies and not "friendly" trophies.
		
Click to expand...

That's why I put talk of "the treble". It would still be "A" treble but not "THE" treble. In my mind "THE" treble is the Premier League, FA Cup and Champions League. They are the three most important competitions that any Premier League Club are playing for each season. The League Cup is a major trophy but not held in the same esteem as the others.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's why I put talk of "the treble". It would still be "A" treble but not "THE" treble. In my mind "THE" treble is the Premier League, FA Cup and Champions League. They are the three most important competitions that any Premier League Club are playing for each season. The League Cup is a major trophy but not held in the same esteem as the others.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but you also said it wouldnt be a proper treble, which it clearly would.

Any club winning a treble with a European cup and a league championship in it shouldn't be sniffed at, the rest is just filigree.


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## AmandaJR (Apr 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			I was thinking, and I know I shouldn't, but if City end up winning just the EPL and the Carabao cup would that constitute a disappointing season?
I realise the answer would be no for any other team .......................... but for Man City?
		
Click to expand...

As a fan? More than happy as for me the Premier League is the one to win.


----------



## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's why I put talk of "the treble". It would still be "A" treble but not "THE" treble. In my mind "THE" treble is the Premier League, FA Cup and Champions League. They are the three most important competitions that any Premier League Club are playing for each season. The League Cup is a major trophy but not held in the same esteem as the others.
		
Click to expand...

Unless your a Spurs fan 😉😁
That aside it’s a trophy and before the days of nigh on half the league being able to qualify for Europe. It seemed to hold a bit more esteem back in the 70’s and 80’s. Me and my lad were saying that the FA cup is going the same way. All semis Played at Wembley. Some teams playing fringe players saving The best players legs for prem league safety. The FA. Up is losing its Fizz. Yet for some of us old uns, the build up to the FA cup final was a full days event. It was the only game played on that day, all focus was on that game. Sadly no more.


----------



## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes but you also said it wouldnt be a proper treble, which it clearly would.

Any club winning a treble with a European cup and a league championship in it shouldn't be sniffed at, the rest is just filigree.
		
Click to expand...


its no emirates cup, charity shield and fa cup treble though is it


----------



## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2021)

Strange but I never really heard many City fans talk about the Quad. But have heard a lot ripping Sterling and a few others from yesterday to bits. I think it was more about the performance than the defeat.
That said you have to give credit to Chelsea I thought they were superb. Both Chelsea and Utd have found another gear over the last few weeks were City are a bit up and down.


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Strange but I never really heard many City fans talk about the Quad. *But have heard a lot ripping Sterling and a few others from yesterday to bits*. I think it was more about the performance than the defeat.
That said you have to give credit to Chelsea I thought they were superb. Both Chelsea and Utd have found another gear over the last few weeks were City are a bit up and down.
		
Click to expand...

funny what happens when expectations get set so high, big ask to be competing in 4 comps still in April, bit harsh for fans to be too critical surely? Almost impossible for levels to stay as high as theyve been for every game and surely rather it happens in the domestic cup rather than the CL?


----------



## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			funny what happens when expectations get set so high, big ask to be competing in 4 comps still in April, bit harsh for fans to be too critical surely? Almost impossible for levels to stay as high as theyve been for every game and surely rather it happens in the domestic cup rather than the CL?
		
Click to expand...

Deffo, for whatever reason ( could be contract talks) but Sterling has been rammel for a couple of months. He is struggling to get in Citys starting 11 never mind England's. His workmate and performance is getting Cityfans on his back. Chuck Mendy in with that.


----------



## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Deffo, for whatever reason ( could be contract talks) but Sterling has been rammel for a couple of months. He is struggling to get in Citys starting 11 never mind England's. His workmate and performance is getting Cityfans on his back. Chuck Mendy in with that.
		
Click to expand...


If youve only got 2 to moan about then things cant be that bad


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Strange but I never really heard many City fans talk about the Quad. But have heard a lot ripping Sterling and a few others from yesterday to bits. I think it was more about the performance than the defeat.
That said you have to give credit to Chelsea I thought they were superb. Both Chelsea and Utd have found another gear over the last few weeks were City are a bit up and down.
		
Click to expand...

City are battling on more fronts. You can't constantly be up, psychologically it's too much. You almost have to pick and choose your games. Priority 1 is the league, and you've got that right 👍


----------



## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Var sigh

Quite subdued first half from Arsenal with some bright flashes, no real surprise after Europe in the week


----------



## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

clear dive but in 2021 any contact means theyre "entitled" to dive and "win" a penalty

daft from Gabriel to give him the chance to


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2021)

Do you think there was contact? I thought it was a dive, yellow card for the Fulham player. 

Bold penalty though.


----------



## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think there was contact? I thought it was a dive, yellow card for the Fulham player.

Bold penalty though.
		
Click to expand...


think theres a toe scratch before he launches himself, still a clear dive but current approach is to find a reason not to overrule the ref even when its garbage


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

So this week is the announcement of the changes to the Champions League which imo are really poor and only protect tbe big clubs and make it more of a closed shop 

But this is also looking to put the spanner in the works

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ams-sign-European-Super-League-snub-UEFA.html

It’s been simmering away for a long time and I have always been in the belief that this would happen - the clubs have the power in their hands to do it as well . It would have dramatic affect on the domestic leagues and also champions league


----------



## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So this week is the announcement of the changes to the Champions League which imo are really poor and only protect tbe big clubs and make it more of a closed shop

But this is also looking to put the spanner in the works

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ams-sign-European-Super-League-snub-UEFA.html

It’s been simmering away for a long time and I have always been in the belief that this would happen - the clubs have the power in their hands to do it as well . It would have dramatic affect on the domestic leagues and also champions league
		
Click to expand...


Lets hope its BS, game is sadly killing itself


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			Lets hope its BS, game is sadly killing itself 

Click to expand...

Looked into it a bit and think it’s genuine - but they are only looking to replace the CL not the domestic leagues - it will be two leagues of ten , then top four from each league go into knockout format etc 

Not sure how teams enter it etc but some clubs in it every year 😲

The problem is the clubs know that the Telly companies would follow the big clubs and the players 

Maybe it’s just a threat in response to the proposed CL changes


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2021)

Cruel on Fulham


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So this week is the announcement of the changes to the Champions League which imo are really poor and only protect tbe big clubs and make it more of a closed shop

But this is also looking to put the spanner in the works

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ams-sign-European-Super-League-snub-UEFA.html

It’s been simmering away for a long time and I have always been in the belief that this would happen - the clubs have the power in their hands to do it as well . It would have dramatic affect on the domestic leagues and also champions league
		
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I’d be very surprised to see that happen.


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## 4LEX (Apr 18, 2021)

Great to see Fulham concede that goal after the ridiculous dive and then 'tactical' timewasting from the keeper.

Really pleased to see them relegated purely based on Scott Parkers dress sense. Good luck looking like a poor mans BooHoo model in the Championship


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## 4LEX (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They are desperate for the CL - that’s the comp that highlights the big teams and it’s the one the owners want - it’s why they brought in Pep
		
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Yep 5 years of Pep and no CL would be a huge stain. His record in the CL without Messi is bang average. No final since 2011 and only a few semi finals. Given that he's been in charge of the two best club sides of the last decade since, it's a shocking record. City don't deserve the real treble or a quadruple, they're a top side but still carry too many passengers. They've taken advantage of a weak league but personally can't see them getting over the line in the CL.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 18, 2021)

Any thoughts on this or is it just folk gum bumping.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2021)




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## Slime (Apr 18, 2021)

BUGGER !!!


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## AmandaJR (Apr 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			BUGGER !!!
		
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Have you learnt nothing grasshopper...


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Have you learnt nothing grasshopper...
		
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Obviously not enough!
To be honest I was a bit surprised that we didn't concede the first goal, despite trying very hard!


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			its no emirates cup, charity shield and fa cup treble though is it 

Click to expand...

Show off! 

Obviously you we're great in the 2 British summer months, just need to work on the other 8 months of the season.


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2021)

I'm not saying a word, once bitten and all that.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2021)

High quality squeal from Van de Beek. Further embarrassed himself by grabbing his shin when the Burnley player caught his foot . To be fair, at least he held the correct leg.


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			High quality squeal from Van de Beek. *Further embarrassed himself by grabbing his shin when the Burnley player caught his foot *. To be fair, at least he held the correct leg.
		
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Why would you grab hold of the injured part?
I once broke my wrist but grabbed my arm a few inches above the break.
I'd have been stupid to grab my wrist because it was broken!


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Why would you grab hold of the injured part?
I once broke my wrist but grabbed my arm a few inches above the break.
I'd have been stupid to grab my wrist because it was broken!
		
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People pretty much always go to the point of pain. I've never broken anything, a bit like Van de Beek didn't today, so can't comment there but instinct is to grab the sore part. Hold it, squeeze it, gives a numbing effect. You don't go somewhere 9" away.


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## Junior (Apr 18, 2021)

European Super League .??????   Surely not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

Surely no one has reached Lacazette levels of howling yet ?


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely no one has reached Lacazette levels of howling yet ?
		
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Pretty sure plenty have tbh, Laca is awful but hes far from alone


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

Junior said:



			European Super League .??????   Surely not.
		
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Think a lot of it is a game of it towards Poker - I don’t think it’s a breakaway from the Prem but from the CL and because they are just about to release the new CL which is another closed shop 

It’s funny watching Sky and Neville react to it - Sky etc started this all off 30 years ago and the likes of Neville and Co took millions because of breakaways etc


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2021)

Junior said:



			European Super League .??????   Surely not.
		
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I think Gary Neville has got it pretty much spot on.
I love his passion.


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## Junior (Apr 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			I think Gary Neville has got it pretty much spot on.
I love his passion.
		
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Hes hit the nail on the head.  It's disgraceful.  If it happens I'm never going near OT again.


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## AmandaJR (Apr 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			I think Gary Neville has got it pretty much spot on.
I love his passion.
		
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Agreed. One of my least favourite players but favourite pundits. Honest and says it as it is.

I'm close to binning football as can't stand the cheating and greed.


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think a lot of it is a game of it towards Poker - I don’t think it’s a breakaway from the Prem but from the CL and because they are just about to release the new CL which is another closed shop

It’s funny watching Sky and Neville react to it - Sky etc started this all off 30 years ago and the likes of Neville and Co took millions because of breakaways etc
		
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About time they tried to play a different hand, they keep trying to butcher the current one................


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## Junior (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think a lot of it is a game of it towards Poker - I don’t think it’s a breakaway from the Prem but from the CL and because they are just about to release the new CL which is another closed shop

It’s funny watching Sky and Neville react to it - *Sky etc started this all off 30 years ago* and the likes of Neville and Co took millions because of breakaways etc
		
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I hope it is just smoke and mirrors.  
How did Sky start a European Super League breakaway ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			I think Gary Neville has got it pretty much spot on.
I love his passion.
		
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He is right - but he is also saying it on the channel that helped start all this off 30 years ago , he also benefitted from the money monsters that both the Prem League and UEFA created and right now both are worried that they are being kicked off the gravy train 

If it went ahead Sky would be balls deep in it bidding billions for exclusive rights etc and people like Neville , Carragher etc would still commentate and provide the pundits etc

Football stopped being about the fans a long time ago


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Agreed. One of my least favourite players but favourite pundits. Honest and says it as it is.

*I'm close to binning football as can't stand the cheating and greed.*

Click to expand...

Every time you think it can t get worse they take it another step, sadly applies to far too much of society today not just football


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

Junior said:



			How did Sky start a European Super League breakaway ?
		
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Sky helped created the Premier League breakaway from the Football League and then UEFA jumped on that wagon with the CL - at some point this was always going to happen and the clubs know that they unfortunately carry the money cards

Not one fan will want this but they stopped caring about that years ago


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## 4LEX (Apr 18, 2021)

The Super League is just talk to make sure the CL revamp gets the green light. A sinister threat is often good to make people tow the line and this strikes me as that, especially with the timing. If it's not then the clubs involved should be removed from every domestic competition and their players banned from international football. The fans of each club should boycot all merch, tickets and broadcastors that show the new Super League. It won't be long before they come crawling back.


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## Junior (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sky helped created the Premier League breakaway from the Football League and then UEFA jumped on that wagon with the CL - at some point this was always going to happen and the clubs know that they unfortunately carry the money cards
		
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Im in disbelief about it all  really.  If it happens I'd deduct all the points from the 6 clubs, make West Ham or Leicester champions.


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is right - but he is also saying it on the channel that helped start all this off 30 years ago , he also benefitted from the money monsters that both the Prem League and UEFA created and right now both are worried that they are being kicked off the gravy train

If it went ahead Sky would be balls deep in it bidding billions for exclusive rights etc *and people like Neville , Carragher etc would still commentate and provide the pundits etc*

Football stopped being about the fans a long time ago
		
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I'd be very surprised if Neville continued in his punditry role for Sky if this does go ahead, very surprised.


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Junior said:



			Im in disbelief about it all  really.  If it happens I'd deduct all the points from the 6 clubs, make West Ham or Leicester champions.
		
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If it happens theres no points deduction to be discussed, they all get thrown out for good!!!

Far more likely they just continue to get a bigger say in how Champs League and Prem League etc are run and it serves its purposes for their greed again


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

Junior said:



			Im in disbelief about it all  really.  If it happens I'd deduct all the points from the 6 clubs, make West Ham or Leicester champions.
		
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I don’t Think they can deduct points etc - hard to see on what grounds when this league is supposed to challenge the Champions League as opposed to the Prem - clubs would take them to court



Slime said:



			I'd be very surprised if Neville continued in his punditry role for Sky if this does go ahead, very surprised.
		
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It’s very hard to see many people will morals within the sport these days - it wasn’t long ago that sky wanted to get PPV etc during a pandemic - Neville was quiet then


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			If it happens theres no points deduction to be discussed, they all get thrown out for good!!!

Far more likely they just continue to get a bigger say in how Champs League and Prem League etc are run and it serves its purposes for their greed again 

Click to expand...

Unfortunately that’s the sad reality of it all - the clubs know they hold the power


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t Think they can deduct points etc - hard to see on what grounds when this league is supposed to challenge the Champions League as opposed to the Prem - clubs would take them to court
		
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It's written in to the contracts that clubs can't play in any competition without the agreement of the PL. If a club chooses to join a new European League without permission they can be kicked out of the league, which is the same effect as deducting all their points.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2021)

I have a shed load to say on the super league. But this is the prem league thread so can someone start a super league thread.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			It's written in to the contracts that clubs can't play in any competition without the agreement of the PL. If a club chooses to join a new European League without permission they can be kicked out of the league, which is the same effect as deducting all their points.
		
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Can we really see the Prem doing anything to the main “bread winners” as such - the Premier League manage to sell the rights to broadcast the league worldwide because of those big clubs that have the worldwide fanbase - shocking as it is , they hold the power and drive the gravy train , every fan hates it but unless we all stop buying tickets and subscriptions then it’s going to continue 


Tashyboy said:



			I have a shed load to say on the super league. But this is the prem league thread so can someone start a super league thread.
		
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It affects the premier league so use this as opposed to spreading to multiple threads


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

looking forward to watching leicester score 9 in the 2nd half


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 18, 2021)

Looking forward to the “Big 6” leaving the PL and when it collapses offer them the only route back in being via starting again at the Non-League level.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Looking forward to the “Big 6” leaving the PL and when it collapses offer them the only route back in being via starting again at the Non-League level.
		
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I have no idea if this is a ploy for leverage or genuine. From my own perspective I have no interest in European football and if a group of 6 from the PL clear off I genuinely won't care. It will mean less tv money for Everton but we will simply realign our spending and get on. 6 teams will come up and I will be happy watching those teams.

The media will squeal and hyperventilate but I doubt most fans of those remaining will care much.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I have no idea if this is a ploy for leverage or genuine. From my own perspective I have no interest in European football and if a group of 6 from the PL clear off I genuinely won't care. It will mean less tv money for Everton but we will simply realign our spending and get on. 6 teams will come up and I will be happy watching those teams.

The media will squeal and hyperventilate but I doubt most fans of those remaining will care much.
		
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It’s the regular stand off between the clubs and UEFA as they announce the changes to the CL which are also a step towards a closed competition or at the very least protection for those “big clubs” within the CL 

If it did go ahead and those clubs did leave or get kicked out of the Prem League - the affects on the other teams would be huge. The drop in money from television rights would greatly affect all clubs ability to pay big wages - it would become an extension of the championship. The best players would jump to teams within whatever league is created , and there are areas around the world that would lap up seeing the big clubs play week in week out against each other - especially the Middle East , Far East and the US. But it would cause big damage to the domestic games. And unfortunatly there will always be a big company out there willing to back these things and media groups happy to buy the rights. 

I just hope it never becomes a reality


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## Bazzatron (Apr 18, 2021)

If it goes ahead the only fair thing to do would be to award whoever finished 7th last season the title.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2021)

For the record, I am massively against this. I suspect 99.9% of fans are. That said, if you buy a season ticket, if you subscribe to Sky or BT who will pay to show these games you are part of the Hypocrisy and greed that is now football. The beautiful game becomes more pig ugly every day.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			For the record, I am massively against this. I suspect 99.9% of fans are. That said, if you buy a season ticket, if you subscribe to Sky or BT who will pay to show these games you are part of the Hypocrisy and greed that is now football. The beautiful game becomes more pig ugly every day.
		
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Rubbish, The only people to blame are the Owners of the Clubs! Do people in Germany and France not subscribe to Sky in their Countries?

Their Clubs have refused to sign up to this Super League.

The PL have come out against it and so have the FA.

Let’s put this blame fairly and squarely were it belongs.

As for the effect on the PL and the Clubs remaining, who cares? whatever the cost is is worth it imo.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Rubbish, The only people to blame are the Owners of the Clubs! Do people in Germany and France not subscribe to Sky in their Countries?

Their Clubs have refused to sign up to this Super League.

The PL have come out against it and so have the FA.

Let’s put this blame fairly and squarely were it belongs.

As for the effect on the PL and the Clubs remaining, who cares? whatever the cost is is worth it imo.
		
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So for the record, the fans of these six clubs that don’t want to join this league should pay for Sky and buy there season tickets and just carry on as normal. That might be your take on it but it’s not mine. I know where the blame lies firmly for this, but I don’t see how fans can moan one minute but carry on as normal.


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2021)

If this does go ahead, which team should I support?
I think I'd go for Blackburn Rovers.
It'd feel strange, but I think I would get used to it.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			If this does go ahead, which team should I support?
I think I'd go for Blackburn Rovers.
It'd feel strange, but I think I would get used to it.
		
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Wonder who my other team would be. Gotta be the mighty Stags. Yeeeeeeeelllllllllloooooooooows


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			So for the record, the fans of these six clubs that don’t want to join this league should pay for Sky and buy there season tickets and just carry on as normal. That might be your take on it but it’s not mine. I know where the blame lies firmly for this, but I don’t see how fans can moan one minute but carry on as normal.
		
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Sky may show the new League and the PL and how those fans spend their money is down to them.

If Sky is showing the new League and those fans buy season tickets then they obviously have no issue with it, but I’d suggest the OWNERS don’t care if they do or don’t, Owners in England couldn’t give 2 hoots what their match going, Sky subscribers think, they’ve just had it  proved you don’t need fans to have football matches at the top level and tourists from around the world will flock to the games.

It won’t be supporters who stop this it will need the players of these Clubs to refuse to join and put in Transfer Requests and the Governing bodies growing a spine and chucking them out after this Season, take away all the support, not let them hang around until they are ready to leave.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2021)

Everyone who is against this has a part to play. Including players and fans. Ave a feeling it’s going to be an interest Few months.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Rubbish, The only people to blame are the Owners of the Clubs! Do people in Germany and France not subscribe to Sky in their Countries?

Their Clubs have refused to sign up to this Super League.

The PL have come out against it and so have the FA.

Let’s put this blame fairly and squarely were it belongs.

As for the effect on the PL and the Clubs remaining, who cares? whatever the cost is is worth it imo.
		
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“iF” this did happen and it’s a big IF then there is no doubt Imo that PSG would in like a flash and Munich wouldn’t be too far behind add in the likes of Benfica , Ajax etc as well

The PL have come out against it because it has the potential to lose them millions , same with UEFA , FA etc - they will only care about the hole it will leave in their pockets


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Can we really see the Prem doing anything to the main “bread winners” *as such - the Premier League manage to sell the rights to broadcast the league worldwide because of those big clubs that have the worldwide fanbase - shocking as it is , they hold the power and drive the gravy train , every fan hates it but unless we all stop buying tickets and subscriptions then it’s going to continue
		
Click to expand...

I can't see how the PL could do anything other than kick them out of the league. Otherwise you have 5 or 6 clubs with access to millions or even billions of pounds of extra income each year from a European super league. It would make the PL less of a level playing field than it is currently. 

Isn't it 14 clubs that currently need to vote in favour of any changes for them to be passed? Would be interesting to see what the other 14 clubs might vote in favour of just to spite the other 6.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“iF” this did happen and it’s a big IF then there is no doubt Imo that PSG would in like a flash and Munich wouldn’t be too far behind add in the likes of Benfica , Ajax etc as well

The PL have come out against it because it has the potential to lose them millions , same with UEFA , FA etc - they will only care about the hole it will leave in their pockets
		
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Bayern and PSG have already made statements saying they won’t join.

Whatever the reasons people (UEFA, FA etc) are against it they need to follow it up with action.


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## nickjdavis (Apr 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Isn't it 14 clubs that currently need to vote in favour of any changes for them to be passed? Would be interesting to see what the other 14 clubs might vote in favour of just to spite the other 6.
		
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The big 5 and Spurs would lobby the Premier League with their best legal counsel and argue that votes should be weighted based on the market value of the teams voting.

Still....if the big 5 and Spurs do sod off then perhaps they wont be too worried about sticking their big noses in and interfering with the Newcastle takeover.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I can't see how the PL could do anything other than kick them out of the league. Otherwise you have 5 or 6 clubs with access to millions or even billions of pounds of extra income each year from a European super league. It would make the PL less of a level playing field than it is currently.

Isn't it 14 clubs that currently need to vote in favour of any changes for them to be passed? Would be interesting to see what the other 14 clubs might vote in favour of just to spite the other 6.
		
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The ramifications of it all are mind boggling and right now we can really only see one set of winners - the rich clubs , I think in the end it is just pure posturing towards UEFA 


pauldj42 said:



			Bayern and PSG have already made statements saying they won’t join.

Whatever the reasons people (UEFA, FA etc) are against it they need to follow it up with action.
		
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Statements are just words - if it happened they would be involved 

And they can’t follow up with action because they know that the money and the power sits with the clubs not them


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## davemc1 (Apr 18, 2021)

Who are the big 5? Liv, Ev, MU, ARS, City??

I’m honestly surprised there enough clubs to have a ‘big 5’??


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## pauljames87 (Apr 18, 2021)

For all the banta in football I'd be gutted to lose the club's involved.

Plus I'm sure their fans would get bored of the same games all the time

Sometimes aren't the best games against the lower teams causing an upset?

But then that's traditional fans rather than fans in those other countries who would support those teams 

Just a shame if it happens


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The ramifications of it all are mind boggling and right now we can really only see one set of winners - the rich clubs , I think in the end it is just pure posturing towards UEFA


Statements are just words - if it happened they would be involved

And they can’t follow up with action because they know that the money and the power sits with the clubs not them
		
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You’re guessing just like we are, you have only seen, heard and read what the rest of us have.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 18, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Who are the big 5? Liv, Ev, MU, ARS, City??

I’m honestly surprised there enough clubs to have a ‘big 5’??
		
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We’re not in it mate, thankfully.
Spurs and Chelsea you missed.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 18, 2021)

If it does go ahead I can see it becoming a global event with fixtures such as Man Utd "at home" to Juventus in Saudi Arabia. Or Real Madrid "away" to AC Milan in New York.


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2021)

I'm sure it'll never happen, I just hope I'm right.


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## davemc1 (Apr 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm sure it'll never happen, I just hope I'm right.
		
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I’m not sure, but do hope you’re right.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			If it does go ahead I can see it becoming a global event with fixtures such as Man Utd "at home" to Juventus in Saudi Arabia. Or Real Madrid "away" to AC Milan in New York.
		
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The amount of money that would be thrown around would be obscene - each club being given £450mil from the off

Thankfully I just don’t think it will happen


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## SaintHacker (Apr 18, 2021)

Best thing that could happen to domestic football imo. Hurry up and get on with it.


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## PieMan (Apr 18, 2021)

As a Chelsea fan I'm disgusted that our owner/board have signed-up to this. Shame on the other clubs as well.


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## BiMGuy (Apr 18, 2021)

I wouldn't get too worked up about t it, as it won't happen. Its just posturing due to the new CL rules that are about to be released.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2021)

Am I the only one seeing the irony in UEFA and the Premier League complaining about the sort of behaviour that has previously been carried out by UEFA and the Premier League; changing the rules to protect the top table, selling themselves to the highest bidder, that sort of thing?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Am I the only one seeing the irony in UEFA and the Premier League complaining about the sort of behaviour that has previously been carried out by UEFA and the Premier League; changing the rules to protect the top table, selling themselves to the highest bidder, that sort of thing?
		
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Exactly that - there is a reason why UEFA created the CL and it wasn’t to make the competition more “open”

And the Prem League is no different

Also the reason why they are reacting to this is to protect their own level of income they gain from these clubs


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## 4LEX (Apr 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			If this does go ahead, which team should I support?
I think I'd go for Blackburn Rovers.
It'd feel strange, but I think I would get used to it.
		
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Why not go for a local team? One of the London sides


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think a lot of it is a game of it towards Poker - I don’t think it’s a breakaway from the Prem but from the CL and because they are just about to release the new CL which is another closed shop

It’s funny watching Sky and Neville react to it - Sky etc started this all off 30 years ago and the likes of Neville and Co took millions because of breakaways etc
		
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Yes Phil, and there has been good and bad since the start of the premiership which has an exhaustive list of pros and cons, but so far it has never been a closed shop.

That is the main terrible idea that this brings, as well as a massive financial advantage over other domestic rivals. It is a greedy, disgusting idea, but its not necessarily the same as when the premiership was created, only in the way that the previous organisers were usurped.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 18, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Looking forward to the “Big 6” leaving the PL and when it collapses offer them the only route back in being via starting again at the Non-League level.
		
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I remember when Everton were part of the big 5, City and Chelsea probably werent even in div 1 at the time.

See you in Scarborough for a bevvy.


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			If this does go ahead, which team should I support?
I think I'd go for Blackburn Rovers.
It'd feel strange, but I think I would get used to it.
		
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trying to choose between MK dons and Cambridge Utd depending on where we buy a house I guess. Damn I hope this doesnt happen


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Sounds like they have officially announced the launch of the so called super league and that the 12 sides have signed up (and expect 3 more for the first season)


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## 4LEX (Apr 18, 2021)

Surprise surprise backed by a US bank and Joel Glazer a key player. Absolute parasite.

Whatever the outcome, I think these clubs have badly judged the feeling of the fans at a time when most people are reeling from the pandemic and have actually learned to live without football. This is a chance for fans to turn their backs on all that's wrong with the modern game. 

Can we get some of the statues outside the 6 English sides stadiums torn down?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 18, 2021)

Looking for a new rival now I guess the 3 biggest are off


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 18, 2021)

What planet do the MOTD pundits live on?

These generations of players are money obsessed, I wouldnt expect most to worry about the good of the game, and like Kerry Packer's cricket experiment, if someone offers a player 20 million a season to play for a "new" CL team, they will be off like a shot.


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Why not go for a local team? One of the London sides 

Click to expand...

My great granddad used to play for Blackburn.


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

why is it being called the super league not the franchise league as surely thats all it is. how long until some of these franchises are relocated to say america or abu dhabi for eg?

sad sad day for football, embarrassed to be a fan of one of the clubs involved

foreign ownership was such a great idea wasnt it


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2021)

Looks like the clubs intend continuing in their respective domestic leagues and cups, and the ESL will be an alternative to the Champions League. So two fingers up at UEFA basically, which is potentially a good thing or a bargaining tool (or both). Full statement on the Chelsea website.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2021)

So they want to stay in the prem league and respective leagues. 🤔

This proposed league will be played mid week.

So they want fans to have a season ticket for the Prem league, then another for this super league. What planet are they on.

it’s nailed on that one of these six prem league teams would win the prem every year where they to be allowed to compete.
How do they play in the Champs league the following year.

it’s a joke.


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Looks like the clubs intend continuing in their respective domestic leagues and cups, and the ESL will be an alternative to the Champions League. So two fingers up at UEFA basically, which is potentially a good thing or a bargaining tool (or both). Full statement on the Chelsea website.
		
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so play in the premier league but then dont play in the "supposedly" meritocratic champions league but go off and play in their own protected franchise league instead

yeah thats gonna work lol


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 18, 2021)

If the whole structure comes crashing down, and as long as club stadiums are protected as local facilities, maybe this is what it needs to start again with fans at the heart of it. Bring it back to the local communities, hopefully there will still be 92 clubs when we get through it.


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2021)

https://thesuperleague.com/

well at least theyre not hiding the fact its all about the money lol


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## 4LEX (Apr 18, 2021)

To think top clubs were calling for extra subs this season due to excessive games, yet they're signing upto play an extra 18-25 games a season 

The whole thing is actually vile.

Judging by the reactions of Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool fans tonight I expect big protests coming up. Grab the popcorn this is going to go off big time!


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## pauljames87 (Apr 19, 2021)

It's going to be so rubbish for the rest of football 

Top 6 will never ever change 

7th place will be a trophy that we still won't win 

All the best players will go to top 6 clubs 

Money won't be there to buy players for lower team


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

Would be the final nail in the coffin for me of top flight football. Already watching less and less as it is. I think if it happened I'd probably just go and find my local non league team that I can walk to and start following them instead.


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## SaintHacker (Apr 19, 2021)

All this will achieve if it goes ahead is to further widen the gap between the'big 6' and the rest of the league. Nothing personal as I have friends on here following these clubs but I hope if it goes ahead the FA/Premier league grow a pair and tell any clubs going to play in it they are no longer welcome in the premier league.


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## Bazzatron (Apr 19, 2021)

They want to earn an extra £350m compared to the rest of us and still play in the Premier League? Nothing seems unfair about that


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## pauljames87 (Apr 19, 2021)




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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 19, 2021)

I only briefly read the concept last night, read a little more this morning. How are Arsenal in this? Come on 😳. Fair play to Leicester who were surely asked but turned it down 😉.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out today. The vibe this morning is not great, UEFA, fifa and the PL are unified against it and this may end up being an embarrassment with clubs backtracking. I hope I'm correct.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Now read and re-read the statements that have come out over night, just who is authorising this League? All I can see is the Clubs themselves have done it, so the answer is easy.

The current Governing bodies simply don’t sanction it, the Clubs will then be forced to either stay in their Leagues or leave and if they leave the Players are no longer members, the Officials won’t be provided and the Clubs lose access to National Comps and International Comps.

All this relegation and promotion to it etc, anytime wishing to qualify should have to leave and those relegated from it have to apply to join and as I said yesterday, start at the bottom.

Further thought, how is the “Big 6” decided? Money? Fan base? etc as what if a “Big 6” Club lose their owners or go in to administration, who picks up the pieces?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I only briefly read the concept last night, read a little more this morning. How are Arsenal in this? Come on 😳. Fair play to Leicester who were surely asked but turned it down 😉.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out today. The vibe this morning is not great, UEFA, fifa and the PL are unified against it and this may end up being an embarrassment with clubs backtracking. I hope I'm correct.
		
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I’d like to think the same, but to find a compromise do The PL, UEFA & FIFA give in to some of their demands? Then does it raise its head again next season and more compromise until 10-15yrs down the line the owners have got what they’ve always wanted.


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

I'm sure it won't go ahead. Not a single fan wants this and there is already talks of boycotts. Surely the owners must realise the club is nothing without fans. Or have they been blinded by recent empty stadiums due to Covid? I feel like the whole thing is bluster to blackmail the authorities into something else that they want.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sure it won't go ahead. Not a single fan wants this and there is already talks of boycotts. Surely the owners must realise the club is nothing without fans. Or have they been blinded by recent empty stadiums due to Covid? I feel like the whole thing is bluster to blackmail the authorities into something else that they want.
		
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Which fans though?
Spurs v Real Madrid in Dubai, the Clubs will have TV money and the owners won’t care were the spectators come from.

The fans have never been a consideration in this as if they had the talks would of never taken place surely?


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## SaintHacker (Apr 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sure it won't go ahead. Not a single fan wants this and there is already talks of boycotts.* Surely the owners must realise the club is nothing without fans. Or have they been blinded by recent empty stadiums due to Covid?* I feel like the whole thing is bluster to blackmail the authorities into something else that they want.
		
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Its been a well known fact for some time that the prem could happily function in empty stadiums due to the huge tv/sponsorship money. They clearly don't care a jot about fans or they wouldn't try to milk the for every penny they can. Boycotts will just be laughed at.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 19, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Its been a well known fact for some time that the prem could happily function in empty stadiums due to the huge tv/sponsorship money. They clearly don't care a jot about fans or they wouldn't try to milk the for every penny they can. Boycotts will just be laughed at.
		
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Fans are completely replaceable for the "top" 6 let's face it 

Day trippers, fans overseas willing to pay to watch the games 

Just got to hope the league, fa, uefa and fifa stop it 

But can you trust corrupt organisations to stop corruption?


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## HomecountiesJohn (Apr 19, 2021)

This proposed breakaway is absolutely absurd.

All clubs involved should be immediately expelled from the PL.

In a perverse way its actually mesmerising watching the PL and sky complain and panic about how their "product" will be affected.

Let's face it, this is Capitalism v Capitlaism.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’d like to think the same, but to find a compromise do The PL, UEFA & FIFA give in to some of their demands? Then does it raise its head again next season and more compromise until 10-15yrs down the line the owners have got what they’ve always wanted.
		
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That’s something that has happened twice already - the formation of the CL was to satisfy the big clubs as was the extension to the amount of clubs that can qualify 

UEFA and Prem Lge created this monster and they can’t control it - UEFA will announce the changes to the CL today and it will be compromised to suit the big clubs - UEFA and Prem know they can’t afford to kick out those clubs


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## road2ruin (Apr 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Fans are completely replaceable for the "top" 6 let's face it

Day trippers, fans overseas willing to pay to watch the games
		
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An there in lies the problem for a lot of the fan groups who are suggesting the boycott. I would imagine that Old Trafford would still be completely full even if every season ticket holder ganged together and didn't turn up, it'll be similar for other clubs as they'll be able to sell tickets to those who just want to watch big games.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 19, 2021)

. 
MAN UTD STAND DOWN FROM ECA

Manchester United have stood down from the European Club Association (ECA) and club executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward has stepped down from his UEFA roles.

_Sky in Italy_ have confirmed Juventus, AC Milan and Inter Milan have also left the ECA.

Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli has also resigned as ECA chairman, a position he held since 2012, and left his post as a member of the UEFA Executive Committee to take up the Super League vice-president role.

The ECA is a body representing the interests of over 200 professional football clubs in UEFA. It is the sole such body recognised by UEFA, and has member clubs in each UEFA member association.


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## GB72 (Apr 19, 2021)

How would European football work for everyone else. Cannot see a market for a Champions League where the representatives are those in places 7-11 in the League (yes, I know that the breakaway clubs are not guaranteed to finish top 6 but using and extreme example), and as for the Europa League, you could end up with clubs knocked out in the quarter finals of the cups being in Europe or, if the european places are removed from the cups, you could see not only the end of any attraction for domestic cup competitions but also a situation where finishing 15th in the Premier League still qualifies you for Europe.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

GB72 said:



			How would European football work for everyone else. Cannot see a market for a Champions League where the representatives are those in places 7-11 in the League (yes, I know that the breakaway clubs are not guaranteed to finish top 6 but using and extreme example), and as for the Europa League, you could end up with clubs knocked out in the quarter finals of the cups being in Europe or, if the european places are removed from the cups, you could see not only the end of any attraction for domestic cup competitions but also a situation where finishing 15th in the Premier League still qualifies you for Europe.
		
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Lots of decent points and points that will need a lot of work.

But in all honesty, I don’t care, I just hope what if left behind looks after themselves and the problems are sorted, Football was in place long before PL/UEFA/FIFA etc came along and I’m sure it can survive this, what certainly don’t want is the “Big 6” getting their own way because the rest are scared to take action or not bold enough to stick together.


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

Leicester into 20/1 to win the prem league on betfair this season


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Leicester into 20/1 to win the prem league on betfair this season 

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I just hope they win the last ever FA cup.


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## chrisd (Apr 19, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			This proposed breakaway is absolutely absurd.

All clubs involved should be immediately expelled from the PL.

In a perverse way its actually mesmerising watching the PL and sky complain and panic about how their "product" will be affected.

Let's face it, this is Capitalism v Capitlaism.
		
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I don't quite understand your suggestion? 

Expel those clubs and they will undoubtedly form this league. Ban them and their players and staff from all other football then they might think twice. The Premier League works well imo and teams can be promoted to it and relegated from it so a team like Bournemouth can aspire to play at the top level.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2021)

“
More from Sean Ingle, our chief sports reporter
“The other thing that’s being stressed to me in private is that not all the 12 breakaway clubs are 100% behind going off on their own. While there are certainly several fanatical believers in a closed league, it is suggested that others have jumped expecting a better deal either through the ESL or via Uefa concessions. Some of the 12, it is even said, want to see it fail but feel they have to be on the bus. Admittedly that is coming from those opposed to the deal, but still.”

There is a lot of posturing and there is no doubt that clubs are going along at the moment for fear of being left behind - and right now there is a lot of reaction headlines , Sky are loving this right now as well and would be balls deep “if” this did start -


It’s the same when the Rugby Clubs looked at revamping the European Cup

In other news - Mourinho sacked 😂😂


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

Sounds like spurs have sacked Jose, rumours he refused to take the players out to train over the super league to be confirmed


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

If it’s true Jose has been sacked over his stance towards the super league then good on him, just let’s hope the other 5 have a spine, some integrity and follow his lead.


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## road2ruin (Apr 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Sounds like spurs have sacked Jose, rumours he refused to take the players out to train over the super league to be confirmed 

Click to expand...

Very clever by Jose IMO. The way this season has gone he knows that he's likely to have been shown the door at the end of the season anyway so he's used this as an opportunity to leave claiming he was trying to stand up for football's traditions. Leaves with more of his reputation in tact and people respect him for it. 

Also, if anything sums up the way owners think about supporters it is this quote....

_some of those involved in ESL call traditional supporters of clubs “legacy fans” while they are focused instead on the “fans of the future” who want superstar names_


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			If it’s true Jose has been sacked over his stance towards the super league then good on him, just let’s hope the other 5 have a spine, some integrity and follow his lead.
		
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Cynic in me says he's got himself sacked before the 'no top four and no trophy' clause comes in and reduces his pay-off substantially. This is José and you wouldn't put it past him.


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## Piece (Apr 19, 2021)

Sacked in the week before a cup final?! Either a masterstroke or a disaster stroke in order to win a trophy!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Cynic in me says he's got himself sacked before the 'no top four and no trophy' clause comes in and reduces his pay-off substantially. This is José and you wouldn't put it past him.
		
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Of course that could be correct, but I don’t think he’d of done it just before a Final, the cynic in me says he’d of wanted to win that so when he was sacked at the end of the season he’d claim he was bemused after being a success.🤷‍♂️


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Of course that could be correct, but I don’t think he’d of done it just before a Final, the cynic in me says he’d of wanted to win that so when he was sacked at the end of the season he’d claim he was bemused after being a success.🤷‍♂️
		
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There may be clauses for both not getting top four and not getting a trophy. Obviously we'll be getting stuffed in the final so not in his interest to play it out.


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## Piece (Apr 19, 2021)

This Super League business; reminds me of Mr Creosote in Monty Python's Meaning of Life. "Just one more wafer sir....".


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## Pathetic Shark (Apr 19, 2021)

How can you fire Mourinho the day after he secured a place in the new European Super League?


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## pendodave (Apr 19, 2021)

Good day to bury bad news I guess.


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## pendodave (Apr 19, 2021)

Re. The big clubs,
My worry us that UEFA will just modify the CL to suit the big clubs and both the EPL and CL will be ruined as any sort of competitive event with the existing financial hegmony being fossilised for all time. 
UEFA and the PL should just not blink, I think the clubs are overplaying their hand.


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

Sadly it seems Mourinhos sacking was purely football related, lost the dressing room etc. Talk it will cost £15m for him to be moved on this time

Wonder how this impacts where Kane is playing next season

Who do you want next Spurs fans?


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## GB72 (Apr 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Sadly it seems Mourinhos sacking was purely football related, lost the dressing room etc. Talk it will cost £15m for him to be moved on this time

Wonder how this impacts where Kane is playing next season

Who do you want next Spurs fans?
		
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Suspect he will get a bit extra to sign a gagging order. Last thing that they want is a loose cannon who likes to use the press like Jose does being able to provide the inside story on the new Super League.


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Sadly it seems Mourinhos sacking was purely football related, lost the dressing room etc. Talk it will cost £15m for him to be moved on this time

Wonder how this impacts where Kane is playing next season

Who do you want next Spurs fans?
		
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The Oddschecker list suggests nobody has a clue. Ryan Mason is in at 20/1! Stevie Gerrard at 18/1 - can't see that happening at all. Favourite is Nagelsmann, I don't know anything about him as I don't watch German football. Rodgers is 6/1, would like that but can't see him leaving Leicester for us, he'd be mad. Nuno and Scott Parker are both 12/1 - would take Nuno but Parker?? Surely not.


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## road2ruin (Apr 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Wonder how this impacts where Kane is playing next season
		
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Cannot see this changing the fact that it's highly likely that Kane will leave at the end of this season. At his age time is running out and he wants that one big move to a club that'll be more competitive, from a financial pov Levy will want a load of cash and this is probably his last chance to command the sort of fees that he wants. I think the problem will be where he goes. Financially it's likely that City and United are the two that can afford the money that Levy would want however would he sell to a rival? If City got Spurs I think that'd be the league done for the next however many seasons, how would you compete with that sort of squad and a goalscorer like Kane?! Barca and Real will be mentioned but there is the issue of whether they can afford the fee.


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The Oddschecker list suggests nobody has a clue. Ryan Mason is in at 20/1! Stevie Gerrard at 18/1 - can't see that happening at all. Favourite is Nagelsmann, I don't know anything about him as I don't watch German football. Rodgers is 6/1, would like that but can't see him leaving Leicester for us, he'd be mad. Nuno and Scott Parker are both 12/1 - would take Nuno but Parker?? Surely not.
		
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Youd love to get Nagelsman, as an Arsenal fan Id prefer you get Parker lol


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Cannot see this changing the fact that it's highly likely that Kane will leave at the end of this season. At his age time is running out and he wants that one big move to a club that'll be more competitive, from a financial pov Levy will want a load of cash and this is probably his last chance to command the sort of fees that he wants. I think the problem will be where he goes. Financially it's likely that City and United are the two that can afford the money that Levy would want however would he sell to a rival? If City got Spurs I think that'd be the league done for the next however many seasons, how would you compete with that sort of squad and a goalscorer like Kane?! Barca and Real will be mentioned but there is the issue of whether they can afford the fee.
		
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Agree with that, Levy has always said he wont let him join another English club but outside that can only see PSG as an option IF they were to lose Mbappe this summer I guess and link up with Pochetino. I guess where Haaland goes may have an impact too on potential destinations


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## HomecountiesJohn (Apr 19, 2021)

chrisd said:



			I don't quite understand your suggestion?

Expel those clubs and they will undoubtedly form this league. Ban them and their players and staff from all other football then they might think twice. The Premier League works well imo and teams can be promoted to it and relegated from it so a team like Bournemouth can aspire to play at the top level.
		
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My point is let those clubs go and form a super league, it'll die of death. 

Can you see the majority fans of those clubs wanting to buy season tickets to play in USA style super league? I can't.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			My point is let those clubs go and form a super league, it'll die of death.

Can you see the majority fans of those clubs wanting to buy season tickets to play in USA style super league? I can't.
		
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If they did form a Super League it wouldn’t die a death - there will be a lot of money floating around to watch it boom , and that would include the likes of Sky , BT Sport and Amazon 

And the clubs will still be in the Prem and season tickets bought for that .


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## Jensen (Apr 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Sounds like spurs have sacked Jose, rumours he refused to take the players out to train over the super league to be confirmed 

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Fantastic news, it’s like we’ve signed a new world record star 👍👍👍😄😄


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Youd love to get Nagelsman, as an Arsenal fan Id prefer you get Parker lol
		
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I think Levy may meet his match in Lady Penelope when it comes to negotiations.


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## Golfnut1957 (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If they did form a Super League it wouldn’t die a death - there will be a lot of money floating around to watch it boom , and that would include the likes of Sky , BT Sport and Amazon

*And the clubs will still be in the Prem and season tickets bought for that *.
		
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Will they?


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## Old Skier (Apr 19, 2021)

As there are so many armchair fans now I can’t see how the super league can fail. Rugby tried it and nearly succeeded but the back lash from fans was to great.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 19, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Fantastic news, it’s like we’ve signed a new world record star 👍👍👍😄😄
		
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How big is your grin right now? If the pay off really is around £15m then it must be the cheapest ever Jose pay off. He has only cost you a squad midfielder.

I would say congrats on getting your club back but then you are one of 'The Six'


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## Old Skier (Apr 19, 2021)

Golfnut1957 said:



			Will they?
		
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Hope not, like to see them all binned with players banned from playing for their country.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If they did form a Super League it wouldn’t die a death - there will be a lot of money floating around to watch it boom , and that would include the likes of Sky , BT Sport and Amazon

*And the clubs will still be in the Prem and season tickets bought for that .*

Click to expand...

Not if the PL, FA & UEFA refuse to recognise the Super League, they can’t and won’t get it all their own way.

Last night you were saying it wouldn’t happen, today it’s an “If” what’s changed?


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## Bdill93 (Apr 19, 2021)

Golfnut1957 said:



			Will they?
		
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I really hope theyre kicked out. 



Old Skier said:



			Hope not, like to see them all binned with players banned from playing for their country.
		
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Its not the players fault at the moment that this has happened. Not right to punish the players like that (yet)


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 19, 2021)

Is there anything in Premier League regulations that says they are obliged to take up their Champions League place if they qualify; if not, what is to stop them taking up alternative offers?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I really hope theyre kicked out.



Its not the players fault at the moment that this has happened. Not right to punish the players like that (yet)
		
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Players will have a choice, stay registered with a recognised Club or lose their registration.


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

I don't think there's any chance of the six clubs being kicked out of the Premier League. Do you think the Prem really want to devalue their product by about 90%? It's just an idle threat.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not if the PL, FA & UEFA refuse to recognise the Super League, they can’t and won’t get it all their own way.

Last night you were saying it wouldn’t happen, today it’s an “If” what’s changed?
		
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They get their own way every time because they carry what’s important to the likes of Prem , UEFA etc - the money

UEFA may well go - you can’t play in the CL and with that goes all those billions in Telly rights

The same with the Premier League - they aren’t going to kick out the teams that they know brings in the billions of overseas Telly rights

It maybe cynical but it’s hard facts - UEFA and Co helped create this monster and made it all about the money.

Governing bodies are not going to shoot themselves in the foot and the Prem League won’t kick teams out


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## Steve Wilkes (Apr 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The Oddschecker list suggests nobody has a clue. Ryan Mason is in at 20/1! Stevie Gerrard at 18/1 - can't see that happening at all. Favourite is Nagelsmann, I don't know anything about him as I don't watch German football. Rodgers is 6/1, would like that but can't see him leaving Leicester for us, he'd be mad. Nuno and Scott Parker are both 12/1 - would take Nuno but Parker?? Surely not.
		
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It doesn't matter who Spurs get as manager, 18 months down the line the fans will be saying it was an obvious mistake to get him the first place


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## Old Skier (Apr 19, 2021)

Personally think it’s in the hands of true fans, if everyone of us pull our Sky Sport/BT/Amazon the lose of revenue will soon start to bite.


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			It doesn't matter who Spurs get as manager, 18 months down the line the fans will be saying it was an obvious mistake to get him the first place 

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I don't like fans who are biased against certain managers because they managed rival teams or whatever, it's dumb. Hiring José seemed like a no-brainer to me, if we wanted trophies. But it obviously didn't work out. I'm not going to claim I knew it all along.


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## GB72 (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They get their own way every time because they carry what’s important to the likes of Prem , UEFA etc - the money

UEFA may well go - you can’t play in the CL and with that goes all those billions in Telly rights

The same with the Premier League - they aren’t going to kick out the teams that they know brings in the billions of overseas Telly rights

It maybe cynical but it’s hard facts - UEFA and Co helped create this monster and made it all about the money.

Governing bodies are not going to shout themselves in the foot and the Prem League won’t kick teams out
		
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I guess this is it. If UEFA make threats to the Premier League, they will have to make the same threats to the top leagues in Spain, Italy and probably Germany and France. That then threatens the whole upper echelon of European football breaking away from UEFA. The cynic in me looks at this as the battle of the cash cows and nothing to do with fans, tradition or integrity. As far as the football hierarchy is concerned, this is all about this new league taking away UEFA's cash cows, the Champions League and the Europa League. Face it, without the top clubs, they become mickey mouse tournaments and may as well be shut down.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 19, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I really hope theyre kicked out.



Its not the players fault at the moment that this has happened. Not right to punish the players like that (yet)
		
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A bit of inconsistency there isn't it?

So throw out century old clubs for something that their own fans dont even want and sod them, but as the players dont want it, its not right to punish them.

Sort yerself out soft lad.


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## Old Skier (Apr 19, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I guess this is it. If UEFA make threats to the Premier League, they will have to make the same threats to the top leagues in Spain, Italy and probably Germany and France. That then threatens the whole upper echelon of European football breaking away from UEFA. The cynic in me looks at this as the battle of the cash cows and nothing to do with fans, tradition or integrity. As far as the football hierarchy is concerned, this is all about this new league taking away UEFA's cash cows, the Champions League and the Europa League. Face it, without the top clubs, they become mickey mouse tournaments and may as well be shut down.
		
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Germany and France have already said they won’t take part on their boards there is a strong fan input.


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## Golfnut1957 (Apr 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is there anything in Premier League regulations that says they are obliged to take up their Champions League place if they qualify; if not, what is to stop them taking up alternative offers?
		
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Yes there is a definitive list in the PL rules which determines which competitions the clubs can play in. As you can imagine the list does not contain the ESL.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Germany and France have already said they won’t take part on their boards there is a strong fan input.
		
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Let’s be honest - PSG right now are being silent because their owners are worried about rocking the boat in regards the World Cup going to Qatar , do you really think the likes of PSG , Bayern etc will not jump if this did actually happen - of course they would , there is no way they would be left behind.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 19, 2021)

Golfnut1957 said:



			Yes there is a definitive list in the PL rules which determines which competitions the clubs *can play in*. As you can imagine the list does not contain the ESL.
		
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Can play in is not the same as must play in.  And Premier League rules can be changed.


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## GB72 (Apr 19, 2021)

Golfnut1957 said:



			Yes there is a definitive list in the PL rules which determines which competitions the clubs can play in. As you can imagine the list does not contain the ESL.
		
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Am I right in thinking that, unless they can find another 8 clubs to vote with them, playing in the ESL is not going to get sanctioned. Seeing as it would kill off the other European competitions, I cannot see the Turkeys voting for Xmas and so the only alternative for these 6 clubs would be to leave the league.


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## Beezerk (Apr 19, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Personally think it’s in the hands of true fans, if everyone of us pull our Sky Sport/BT/Amazon the lose of revenue will soon start to bite.
		
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They aren't bothered about a few hundred thousand angry Brits removing their sports subscriptions,  they're concentrating on the global TV audience, Malaysia, China, Middle East etc, millions and millions prepared to shell out to watch the elite go at it every week.
As an outsider who would you rather pay to view, Man City vs Barcelona or Fulham vs Burnley? 😆


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## DanFST (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Bayern etc will not jump if this did actually happen - of course they would , there is no way they would be left behind.
		
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50-1 rule. They wouldn't.


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			They aren't bothered about a few hundred thousand angry Brits removing their sports subscriptions,  they're concentrating on the global TV audience, Malaysia, China, Middle East etc, millions and millions prepared to shell out to watch the elite go at it every week.
As an outsider who would you rather pay to view, Man City vs Barcelona or Fulham vs Burnley? 😆
		
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Fulham Burnley all day, you can keep that tiki taka rubbish, get the ball in the mixer.


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## Beezerk (Apr 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Fulham Burnley all day, you can keep that tiki taka rubbish, get the ball in the mixer.
		
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Mate, you lost 9 -0 at the weekend so you're football tactics opinion means nothing 😅


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## Golfnut1957 (Apr 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think there's any chance of the six clubs being kicked out of the Premier League. Do you think the Prem really want to devalue their product by about 90%? It's just an idle threat.
		
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What makes you think that the PL will have an option. Unless UEFA roll over and get their bellies tickled they will presumably continue with the Chumps league and expect the PL to send their champions to it. If the PL send their 7th to 11th clubs it seriously undermines the credibility of the PL as a competition and EUFA  will in all probability not allow it.

It may well be that if the PL want to continue to be affiliated to UEFA and in by association FIFA then they will have to toe the UEFA line. The English FA and the EFL will almost certainly continue their affiliation with UEFA leaving the PL isolated along with the ESL.

FIFA will have a decisive role in any outcome as the banning of players from a league that they don't recognise will give the players themselves something to chew on.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 19, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Am I right in thinking that, unless they can find another 8 clubs to vote with them, playing in the ESL is not going to get sanctioned. Seeing as it would kill off the other European competitions, I cannot see the Turkeys voting for Xmas and so the only alternative for these 6 clubs would be to leave the league.
		
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If 6 of the bigger names in the Premier League leave, where does that leave the Premier League product when it tries to sell itself abroad?  Just as you cannot see 8 other teams voting to cut their own financial throats, I can't see the Premier League rushing to devalue their product either.


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## Steve Wilkes (Apr 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't like fans who are biased against certain managers because they managed rival teams or whatever, it's dumb. Hiring José seemed like a no-brainer to me, if we wanted trophies. But it obviously didn't work out. I'm not going to claim I knew it all along. 

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I know it wasn't you Orikoru that said it, but some fans have said it was an obvious mistake for Levy to hire Jose in the first place, but who knows what difference one manager is going to make over another. If they fail everyone uses hindsight. But when there's only 2 outcomes in a season that supposedly means success 'Premiership or Champion League Winners' there's going to be an awful lot of 'failures'


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## Bdill93 (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			A bit of inconsistency there isn't it?

So throw out century old clubs for something that their own fans dont even want and sod them, but as the players dont want it, its not right to punish them.

Sort yerself out soft lad.
		
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Actually read what I wrote. I dont care about their history, they arent my club. Their fans loss, not mine. The clubs want out because theyre so big these days - so be it. 

The players literally have no say in the current going on, they're contracted to any of the teams in question. Go to work and get paid. Thats it. They havent individually decided to jump ship, their owners have. 

Clearly paul understood my point as per below - the players need the choice, but as of yet, they've made no decisions themselves and therefore deserve no punishment.

I also state (yet) showing that if they do decide to jump ship too, then by all means give them a giant boot in the right direction. 

Sort yourself out, simple lad. 

Its not them making the decision - why punish players? Its the greedy club owners that need punishment.


pauldj42 said:



			Players will have a choice, stay registered with a recognised Club or lose their registration.
		
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## Golfnut1957 (Apr 19, 2021)

If what's just been revealed on Sky Sports by reporter Kaveh Solhekol is just half true??.. He's been speaking to a board member of one of the clubs, and he's revealed :

Several Board members from the clubs are opposed to the breakaway but feel they have no power to stop it.
 Owners expected a backlash but don't care about bad PR at the moment. They're primary job is to maximise revenue and profits with the good of the game is secondary to them Want LESS football, not More .. so much so, they are happy if FIFA ban players from internation football.
If they stay in the Premier League - they will be happy to play weakened teams on Saturdays so they can play their strongest mid-week in the ESL US and Saudi broadcasters already been approached and in discussions for TV rights This isn't "civil war" this is "nuclear war" 
One owner has said that they aren't bothered if they get booted from the Premier League - the riches on offer is more than enough to compensate them The US owners don't understand the concept of relegation and think it's crazy Some of the other 14 Premier League teams are calling for immediate suspension of these 6 from the Premier League right now ..


If even half of these claims are true then there is absolutely no way back from this for these 6 clubs ..


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## Fade and Die (Apr 19, 2021)

Golfnut1957 said:



			If what's just been revealed on Sky Sports by reporter Kaveh Solhekol is just half true??.. He's been speaking to a board member of one of the clubs, and he's revealed :

Several Board members from the clubs are opposed to the breakaway but feel they have no power to stop it.
Owners expected a backlash but don't care about bad PR at the moment. They're primary job is to maximise revenue and profits with the good of the game is secondary to them Want LESS football, not More .. so much so, they are happy if FIFA ban players from internation football.
If they stay in the Premier League - they will be happy to play weakened teams on Saturdays so they can play their strongest mid-week in the ESL US and Saudi broadcasters already been approached and in discussions for TV rights This isn't "civil war" this is "nuclear war"
One owner has said that they aren't bothered if they get booted from the Premier League - the riches on offer is more than enough to compensate them The US owners don't understand the concept of relegation and think it's crazy Some of the other 14 Premier League teams are calling for immediate suspension of these 6 from the Premier League right now ..


If even half of these claims are true then there is absolutely no way back from this for these 6 clubs ..
		
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It's going to get messy.

A compromise is needed.

Walk away, Just relegate Spurs and the Red Scouse, fine them each a billion and we'll shake hands and move on. 👍


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## GB72 (Apr 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			If 6 of the bigger names in the Premier League leave, where does that leave the Premier League product when it tries to sell itself abroad?  Just as you cannot see 8 other teams voting to cut their own financial throats, I can't see the Premier League rushing to devalue their product either.
		
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As someone has mentioned below, my thought is that this is just the start to trigger a chain of events that leads to one European Superleague with its own cup competitions etc and a total break from the national league structures.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

There’s no way the “Big 6” can play in the Super League and the Prem, they are already moaning about fixture congestion etc, so add in the midweek Super League when they’ve got a midweek PL fixture or a Carabao Cup match or on an international break, something will give and there is no way the FA or other Clubs will bend to please them 6.


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## Golfnut1957 (Apr 19, 2021)

GB72 said:



			As someone has mentioned below, my thought is that this is just the start to trigger a chain of events that leads to one European Superleague with its own cup competitions etc and a total break from the national league structures.
		
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Don't forget that the people behind these teams are no longer the local butcher made good and only wants the best for their team. These people are multi-national money makers and have no loyalty to English football, the PL, the FA or UEFA  their goal is make money and these clubs are not local institutions they are vehicles to fulfill that aim.

As an aside, Barcelona are over a billion euros in debt.


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## Hobbit (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			There’s no way the “Big 6” can play in the Super League and the Prem, they are already moaning about fixture congestion etc, so add in the midweek Super League when they’ve got a midweek PL fixture or a Carabao Cup match or on an international break, something will give and there is no way the FA or other Clubs will bend to please them 6.
		
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Maybe they'll drop the FA and Carabao Cups. Tail wagging the dog. When a team joins a league they abide by the league rules. Sounds like the Super 6 have other ideas.

If this new structure does happen, I'd expect a number of small clubs, or even the Prem, might fold. Its not to unlike the issue with American Football many years ago, P.Shark might be able to give more detail on that, when new leagues and teams were formed.

As for supporters, how many will be able to travel to 15 away fixtures? This is all about greed, and sod the fans.


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			There’s no way the “Big 6” can play in the Super League and the Prem, they are already moaning about fixture congestion etc, so add in the midweek Super League when they’ve got a midweek PL fixture or a Carabao Cup match or on an international break, something will give and there is no way the FA or other Clubs will bend to please them 6.
		
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End up using their reserves in the Super League, people in Qatar and UAE paying thousands to watch Divock Origi take on Axel Tuanzebe.


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## road2ruin (Apr 19, 2021)

Whilst I don't agree with the ESL I thought this was true from Twitter....

_And then Premier League, FA and UEFA have the cheek to virtue signal and pretend that they’re in football as some altruistic gesture to the fans. The same people that tried to charge £15 a match pay per view during a pandemic? If anything they're just angry that they haven't managed to get this sort of thing up and running with the associated money it would bring in.   _


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Cannot see this changing the fact that it's highly likely that Kane will leave at the end of this season. At his age time is running out and he wants that one big move to a club that'll be more competitive, from a financial pov Levy will want a load of cash and this is probably his last chance to command the sort of fees that he wants. I think the problem will be where he goes. Financially it's likely that City and United are the two that can afford the money that Levy would want however would he sell to a rival? If City got Spurs I think that'd be the league done for the next however many seasons, how would you compete with that sort of squad and a goalscorer like Kane?! Barca and Real will be mentioned but there is the issue of whether they can afford the fee.
		
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Will Kane go to a big club that will be playing in a closed super league?
Won’t do his medal tally much good.


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## Golfnut1957 (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			There’s no way the “Big 6” can play in the Super League and the Prem, they are already moaning about fixture congestion etc, so add in the midweek Super League when they’ve got a midweek PL fixture or a Carabao Cup match or on an international break, something will give and there is no way the FA or other Clubs will bend to please them 6.
		
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Gary Neville said it last night. They are going to receive 300 million for playing mid-week and then turn up for the PL on a Saturday, competition, what competition.  If they do join the ESL the PL will have to boot them out or watch their much vaunted league die.


I watched Burnley give Utd a game yesterday and enjoyed it way more than many a sterile game between these supposed elite 6. It is what makes the PL so good.

Given the choice I will more often than not watch a Championship game over a Champions League game. I don't get to see Phil Foden light up the pitch, but I also don't have to watch meaningless possession.


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

I don't even watch the Champion's League when Spurs are not in it. Not interested at all.


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## GB72 (Apr 19, 2021)

Golfnut1957 said:



			Gary Neville said it last night. They are going to receive 300 million for playing mid-week and then turn up for the PL on a Saturday, competition, what competition.  If they do join the ESL the PL will have to boot them out or watch their much vaunted league die.


I watched Burnley give Utd a game yesterday and enjoyed it way more than many a sterile game between these supposed elite 6. It is what makes the PL so good.

Given the choice I will more often than not watch a Championship game over a Champions League game. I don't get to see Phil Foden light up the pitch, but I also don't have to watch meaningless possession.
		
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This is where the EFL clubs have a chance to step up their marketing game, start selling themselves to fans of these 6 clubs and see if they can attract a larger fan base and improve their positions.


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## Golfnut1957 (Apr 19, 2021)

Apparently it starts to get interesting tonight. The remaining teams in Serie A are meeting tonight to determine what course of action they take. I wonder if they have spoken to the other top leagues affected and whether it will be a pointer to the future.


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## IanM (Apr 19, 2021)

The wannabes in the replica shirts that have never set foot in a stadium will be lapping this up.    

The outrage on the radio this morning is hilarious.


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## Swinglowandslow (Apr 19, 2021)

I am not a big football follower now, but this proposed Super league does sadden me.
I am reading Jimmy Greaves's book at this very moment, ( and he is so right), and in my lifetime from a young man to an old man , football and all that is good  and exciting about it as a fan, has almost disintegrated. And now this.!

I would like to see the players of these six clubs make it known they won't play in this super league.
It may be said they are legally bound to play for the Club they signed up to.
But a good lawyer for them could and would argue that they signed up to play for the Club within the framework and auspices of that Clubs governing bodies, which at the time were the Football League and Football Association, including Eufa and Fifa.
That they would be playing with all the benefits and obligations to those parent organisations is what was the basis of their signing, and if those Bodies reject their Club on the basis of their Club unilaterally leaving or being expelled from those organisations, then those  clubs should not be able to legally force those players to go along with them.
The players could legally claim they are free to leave the contracts and become free agents .
Some top British players have a very important decision to make.
The possibility of becoming pariahs to their fans, and burning bridges
doesn't adequately describe their situation if this league goes ahead and the impasse remains.


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## Old Skier (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Let’s be honest - PSG right now are being silent because their owners are worried about rocking the boat in regards the World Cup going to Qatar , do you really think the likes of PSG , Bayern etc will not jump if this did actually happen - of course they would , there is no way they would be left behind.
		
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I would be very surprised if Germany got involved but like you, its just an opinion. As to the French, who knows.  The German model of governance is far different than most UK clubs and they would have to win over the fans before they could proceed.


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## Old Skier (Apr 19, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			They aren't bothered about a few hundred thousand angry Brits removing their sports subscriptions,  they're concentrating on the global TV audience, Malaysia, China, Middle East etc, millions and millions prepared to shell out to watch the elite go at it every week.
As an outsider who would you rather pay to view, Man City vs Barcelona or Fulham vs Burnley? 😆
		
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Quite happy watching Wrexham myself, been to watch Liverpool quite  few times and enjoy the odd trip to London to watch Fulham.  Prefer going to games rather than watching in my slippers.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 19, 2021)

GB72 said:



			This is where the EFL clubs have a chance to step up their marketing game, start selling themselves to fans of these 6 clubs and see if they can attract a larger fan base and improve their positions.
		
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If you really think that an EFL team will persuade the fans of these clubs to come over to them then you have lost the plot. The genuine season ticket holding fans support one professional team and one team only, that support is not for sale. 

If it happens that Chelsea are kicked out then I walk away from the professional game as a fan. I may try grass roots football and see if it appeals but I am not for sale to Fulham, Charlton or anybody else.


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## Old Skier (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			There’s no way the “Big 6” can play in the Super League and the Prem, they are already moaning about fixture congestion etc, so add in the midweek Super League when they’ve got a midweek PL fixture or a Carabao Cup match or on an international break, something will give and there is no way the FA or other Clubs will bend to please them 6.
		
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How are the "Big 6" decided, is it a revenue thing because looking at the table at the moment there a clubs in there having great difficulty in being in the big 6.  Or is it as I suspect, the 6 clubs with the biggest amount of fans that don't even know what bus to catch to the ground.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 19, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			How are the "Big 6" decided, is it a revenue thing because looking at the table at the moment there a clubs in there having great difficulty in being in the big 6.  Or is it as I suspect, the 6 clubs with the biggest amount of fans that don't even know what bus to catch to the ground.
		
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The ones that hold the most attraction to the armchair fans who will be the cash cow for the new league.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			I would be very surprised if Germany got involved but like you, its just an opinionated watch . As to the French, who knows.  The German model of governance is far different than most UK clubs and they would have to win over the fans before they could proceed.
		
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Whilst I agree they are run different.
they would only have to win over a certain percentage to do so.
I wouldn’t say it’s unrealistic to think that certain portion would rather watch their team play the best of Europe week in week out.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			How are the "Big 6" decided, is it a revenue thing because looking at the table at the moment there a clubs in there having great difficulty in being in the big 6.  Or is it as I suspect, the 6 clubs with the biggest amount of fans that don't even know what bus to catch to the ground.
		
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That’s what I posted before, we’ve had the “Top 4” “Big 5” and “Big 6” sadly Sky have been responsible for these tag lines over the last few years, it certainly isn’t done on history, fan base or League position for every team, some fit quite easily in to the description and some struggle year to year.

I don’t believe they have the highest revenue or even the richest 6 owners.🤷‍♂️


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			If 6 of the bigger names in the Premier League leave, where does that leave the Premier League product when it tries to sell itself abroad?  Just as you cannot see 8 other teams voting to cut their own financial throats, I can't see the Premier League rushing to devalue their product either.
		
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Two tier British League with Scots and NI teams involved.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst I agree they are run different.
they would only have to win over a certain percentage to do so.
I wouldn’t say it’s unrealistic to think that certain portion would rather watch their team play the best of Europe week in week out.
		
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Whilst I agree some fans of some Clubs may feel that way, but I don’t think the majority do, if the FA folded and allowed them to play in both the PL and Super League they may keep some fans.

In all honesty LPool fans really only care about Man Utd as rivals out the “Big 6” I can’t see them suddenly finding the same passion for the rest or even those from Europe if they are playing them every season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			How are the "Big 6" decided, is it a revenue thing because looking at the table at the moment there a clubs in there having great difficulty in being in the big 6.  Or is it as I suspect, the 6 clubs with the biggest amount of fans that don't even know what bus to catch to the ground.
		
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The clubs that attract the most fans from outside the UK I suspect - the world wide cash cow

If you go abroad you will see people wearing shirts of those clubs. Arsenal and Spurs inclusion will be contested because they haven’t really been big European clubs in recent years , but those 6 are the main clubs that represent England in Europe over the past 20/30 years and it’s hard to see what other clubs you could replace them with


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe they'll drop the FA and Carabao Cups. Tail wagging the dog. When a team joins a league they abide by the league rules. Sounds like the Super 6 have other ideas.

If this new structure does happen, I'd expect a number of small clubs, or even the Prem, might fold. Its not to unlike the issue with American Football many years ago, P.Shark might be able to give more detail on that, when new leagues and teams were formed.

As for supporters, how many will be able to travel to 15 away fixtures? This is all about greed, and sod the fans.
		
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its about the "future fans" not the "legacy fans"


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 19, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Two tier British League with Scots and NI teams involved.
		
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And where are you getting 6 big names from those 2 leagues?


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			The ones that hold the most attraction to the armchair fans who will be the cash cow for the new league.
		
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5 years ago I happily supported Arsenal, Saracens rugby and Essex cricket. 5 years time unlikely to be any of them left to support in the guise they were then


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Whilst I agree some fans of some Clubs may feel that way, but I don’t think the majority do, if the FA folded and allowed them to play in both the PL and Super League they may keep some fans.

In all honesty LPool fans really only care about Man Utd as rivals out the “Big 6” I can’t see them suddenly finding the same passion for the rest or even those from Europe if they are playing them every season.
		
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I was only talking about Germany Where the fans generally control 51% of a club therefor stopping things happen.  

As to rivalries, maybe it won’t spark intense rivalries, but lots of people like to support the best team or claim they do at least.
this would give them fans a chance to claim it.

whilst I’m against it. Sky et all complaining is the highest level of hypocrisy!


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I was only talking about Germany Where the fans generally control 51% of a club therefor stopping things happen. 

As to rivalries, maybe it won’t spark intense rivalries, but lots of people like to support the best team or claim they do at least.
this would give them fans a chance to claim it.

whilst I’m against it. Sky et all complaining is the highest level of hypocrisy!
		
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Yeah it really shows you what a mockery football has become if UEFA, the FA and Sky are now the good guys??


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## GB72 (Apr 19, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I was only talking about Germany Where the fans generally control 51% of a club therefor stopping things happen. 

As to rivalries, maybe it won’t spark intense rivalries, but lots of people like to support the best team or claim they do at least.
this would give them fans a chance to claim it.

whilst I’m against it. Sky et all complaining is the highest level of hypocrisy!
		
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Be interesting to see how this impacts on the SKY and BT contracts. The Premier league value could be severely reduced, more so if clubs leave but even if they remain, the Super League would be promoting itself as a superior football product to international audiences and potentially reduce the global value of the Premier League rights. You then have the Champions League contract that could effectively become worthless over night.


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## chrisd (Apr 19, 2021)

I can see it now, the Premier League 

Winners.          Crystal Palace 
Runners up.      Stoke Pogis over 35's 3rd eleven

and we qualify for Campions League and beat Chelsea Ladies in the final 

😁😁


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

chrisd said:



			I can see it now, the Premier League

Winners.          Crystal Palace
Runners up.      Stoke Pogis over 35's 3rd eleven

and we qualify for Campions League and beat Chelsea Ladies in the final

😁😁
		
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If nothing else good has come out of it at least Palace fans are dreaming again


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 19, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Actually read what I wrote. I dont care about their history, they arent my club. Their fans loss, not mine. The clubs want out because theyre so big these days - so be it.

The players literally have no say in the current going on, they're contracted to any of the teams in question. Go to work and get paid. Thats it. They havent individually decided to jump ship, their owners have.

Clearly paul understood my point as per below - the players need the choice, but as of yet, they've made no decisions themselves and therefore deserve no punishment.

I also state (yet) showing that if they do decide to jump ship too, then by all means give them a giant boot in the right direction.

Sort yourself out, simple lad.

Its not them making the decision - why punish players? Its the greedy club owners that need punishment.
		
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So your just as selfish as the owners then?

Its not my club, so dont care. what if a player isnt at one of them clubs now but chooses to go to them once £20 m is dangled in front of them.

So what is your very inconsitsent point then?

Football doesnt need fans like you, it deserves ones without a narrow-minded mindset, ones who actually think past just their own club and for the greater good. Yes there are tonnes of the selfish ones about, but lets hope this lessens on the fight ahead.

All clubs need to survive, whether CL ones or conference ones and none should be given up on, especially when the decision is by a few owners/directors, and not by the millions of fans who support that club and who are dead against it.


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

chrisd said:



			I can see it now, the Premier League

Winners.          Crystal Palace
Runners up.      Stoke Pogis over 35's 3rd eleven

and we qualify for Campions League and* beat Chelsea Ladies in the final*

😁😁
		
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I wouldn't write them off, that would be a close game.


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

Arsenal's president, Stan Kroenke, doesn't understand what all the fuss is about. He believes that when the Super League starts, fans around the world will gather together and thank the founders for this 'wonderful idea'.


If anything sums it up its this


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## Bdill93 (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So your just as selfish as the owners then?

Its not my club, so dont care. *what if a player isnt at one of them clubs now but chooses to go to them once £20 m is dangled in front of them*.

So what is your very inconsitsent point then?

Football doesnt need fans like you, it deserves ones without a narrow-minded mindset, ones who actually think past just their own club and for the greater good. Yes there are tonnes of the selfish ones about, but lets hope this lessens on the fight ahead.

All clubs need to survive, whether CL ones or conference ones and none should be given up on, especially when the decision is by a few owners/directors, and not by the millions of fans who support that club and who are dead against it.
		
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Then so be it - but the player loses their right for international football and other competitions. Its no different to Oscar moving from Chelsea to Shanghai - for the player, more money, rubbish competition and wont get selected for Brazil playing there. But hes happy earning buckets of cash.

I'm a home and away supporter of my club. I donated heavily to help save Bury, I own shares of a team up north too (fan owned). Thats exactly the fan any club wants. Ive travelled the country, put money into local economies and enjoy everything about English football. The "big 6" are trying to destroy our beautiful game, not me. 

My views that the players (of the big 6 currently) arent yet responsible are not inconsistent. They've not had their say yet although I doubt many will speak publicly due to fear of losing money from their employer. 

The 6 clubs need a strong hard boot out of the EFL/ Premier league. They have lost all my respect and deserve to fail.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 19, 2021)

Seems a bit of deja vu about this. First we had the proposed breakaway golf tour. Now we have the super league. The one common factor money.


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Arsenal's president, Stan Kroenke, doesn't understand what all the fuss is about. He believes that when the Super League starts, *fans around the world will gather together and thank the founders for this 'wonderful idea'.*


If anything sums it up its this 

Click to expand...

Well they might do, it just won't be the real fans of the clubs involved. Owners think of fans as walking dollar signs, so he means the "fans" in China, Qatar, etc. Actual fans will be left behind and the chairmen won't care a jot.


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## Captainron (Apr 19, 2021)

Fact remains that money is the guiding factor in football. Being the best costs the most. 

The clubs belong to the owners. They decide what direction the club takes. The fans can think they have a voice but in all honesty, they don't. The owners will try and make as much mobney from their investment as they possibly can and they all see this as an opportunity to do so. The 'soul' of the club is irrelevant when they can make a stack of cash


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## Captainron (Apr 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well they might do, it just won't be the real fans of the clubs involved. Owners think of fans as walking dollar signs, so he means the "fans" in China, Qatar, etc. Actual fans will be left behind and the chairmen won't care a jot.
		
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There will be games played in those sorts of countries.....just wait.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 19, 2021)

Well my lad's a staunch Arsenal fan and he's disgusted by the greed that this epitomises - if this goes ahead he reckons he'll probably dump Arsenal and focus on Pompey (when he was much younger we used to go down to Fratton quite often) - and Sheffield Utd (his local city club).

I have little interest in the EPL and so shrug - as this is just the almost corrupt sort of place that obsession with money and 'market forces' takes us.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Apart from the greed for money, imo, Sky and the PL did not risk breaking up the 1st Division, didn’t look to form a break away league and risk the whole of the game going down the pan.

They are not innocent, not at all, haven’t been good for large parts of the game, but what they didn’t do is risk the whole sport and change the game forever!


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## Patster1969 (Apr 19, 2021)

Football has been broken for a few years but with the money involved being chucked around on mediocre players and not put back into the grassroots, VAR and now this, it's all going down the swany.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 19, 2021)

Boris Johnson now getting involved and commenting that he'll work with football authorities to block this - and apparently the government could put the kibosh on UK clubs involvement (don't know how) and so it becomes political...and I suppose we cannot comment on his involvement.  Which is a good thing.


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## Orikoru (Apr 19, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Boris Johnson now getting involved - and apparently the government could put the kibosh on UK clubs involvement (don't know how) and so it becomes political.
		
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Brexit means Brexit.


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## chrisd (Apr 19, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Boris Johnson now getting involved and commenting that he'll work with football authorities to block this - and apparently the government could put the kibosh on UK clubs involvement (don't know how) and so it becomes political...and I suppose we cannot comment on his involvement.
		
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Sky were saying that other sports have been taken to the European Court when doing a similar set up and one one in the court and one lost. It was about any team not having the chance to participate therefore unfair competition. I guess the UK would not be party to the European Court decision though, but Spain and Italy (and maybe others) would.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2021)

Swinglowandslow said:



			I am not a big football follower now, but this proposed Super league does sadden me.
I am reading Jimmy Greaves's book at this very moment, ( and he is so right), and in my lifetime from a young man to an old man , football and all that is good  and exciting about it as a fan, has almost disintegrated. And now this.!

I would like to see the players of these six clubs make it known they won't play in this super league.
It may be said they are legally bound to play for the Club they signed up to.
But a good lawyer for them could and would argue that they signed up to play for the Club within the framework and auspices of that Clubs governing bodies, which at the time were the Football League and Football Association, including Eufa and Fifa.
That they would be playing with all the benefits and obligations to those parent organisations is what was the basis of their signing, and if those Bodies reject their Club on the basis of their Club unilaterally leaving or being expelled from those organisations, then those  clubs should not be able to legally force those players to go along with them.
The players could legally claim they are free to leave the contracts and become free agents .
Some top British players have a very important decision to make.
The possibility of becoming pariahs to their fans, and burning bridges
doesn't adequately describe their situation if this league goes ahead and the impasse remains.
		
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Totally agree with you .
But it would be nice to see all those with their noses in the trough at EUFA and Fifa get their just  desserts.
Football stopped worrying what the fans think long ago.


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



*Boris Johnson now getting involved and commenting that he'll work with football authorities to block this* - and apparently the government could put the kibosh on UK clubs involvement (don't know how) and so it becomes political...and I suppose we cannot comment on his involvement.  Which is a good thing.
		
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I'm glad of that, surely that is a good thing?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm glad of that, surely that is a good thing?
		
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It’s just nonsense - what exactly do people think he can do about it all - absolutely nothing , it’s just an empty vessel pandering to football fans.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s just nonsense - what exactly do people think he can do about it all - absolutely nothing , it’s just an empty vessel pandering to football fans.
		
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My thoughts also - since when was it any business of government to get involved in decisions made by businesses such as these football clubs.  I cannot comment or suggest why Johnson has Dowden making such a strong statement on the matter.
.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And where are you getting 6 big names from those 2 leagues?
		
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That is the kind of thinking that has got the Premier league to where it is today.
Mega Millionaires controlling what's happening.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 19, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			My thoughts also - since when was it any business of government to get involved in decisions made by businesses such as these football clubs.  I cannot comment or suggest why Johnson has Dowden making such a strong statement on the matter.
.
		
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Deflection at it's finest


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Are you people saying the Government can’t get involved living in cloud cuckoo land?

They are involved at all levels and many, many aspects of top flight football have to comply with Government Regulations etc!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you people saying the Government can’t get involved living in cloud cuckoo land?

They are involved at all levels and many, many aspects of top flight football have to comply with Government Regulations etc!
		
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So what do you think the current government can do about 6 clubs wanting to playing in a new competition whilst still competing within their domestic competitions ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what do you think the current government can do about 6 clubs wanting to playing in a new competition whilst still competing within their domestic competitions ?
		
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Who provides the licensing laws, Police Support, Overseas Works Permits etc etc, those are just a few of the ways any Government could make it difficult if not impossible to any PL teams wanting to join the ESL.


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## IanM (Apr 19, 2021)

I wonder what these clubs "actually have in mind?"

They've tabled the doomsday scenario knowing there'd be mass opposition,  so watch as "the compromise" they actually want suddenly appears.  (I wonder eh?)

The folks moaning about Boris' comments,  would also be moaning if he didn't comment.   

On the radio this evening Adrian Durham reckons players won't do it if it means being banned from international football.  I think he's wrong.  They'll go wherever the pay is highest.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Who provides the licensing laws, Police Support, Overseas Works Permits etc etc, those are just a few of the ways any Government could make it difficult if not impossible to any PL teams wanting to join the ESL.
		
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I thought that European clubs had to be free of government control/funding etc.

Wonderful double standards being shown by virtually everyone involved in the English Premier league and UK televised football. Many chickens have come home to roost


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Who provides the licensing laws, Police Support, Overseas Works Permits etc etc, those are just a few of the ways any Government could make it difficult if not impossible to any PL teams wanting to join the ESL.
		
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Right now the Premier League help pump in around £7bn into the countries economy- just imagine how much extra revenue they potentially could earn from extra matches , increases wages for more tax and revenue. The government will do sweet FA just like they did nothing for any other sport that created new competitions


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## IanM (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s just nonsense - what exactly do people think he can do about it all - absolutely nothing , it’s just an empty vessel pandering to football fans.
		
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Withdrawal of licencing,  permission to stage games,  windfall taxes,  refuse overseas work permits... that's just off the top of my head...

So plenty.    

 Corbyn would be on tv claiming he'd nationalise English football...and technically he could.


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

Some chatter that UEFA will meet tomorrow with a motion throwing City, Chelsea and Real Madrid out of the CL and Man U and Arsenal out of the Europa League


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2021)

IanM said:



			Withdrawal of licencing,  permission to stage games,  windfall taxes,  refuse overseas work permits... that's just off the top of my head...

So plenty.   

Corbyn would be on tv claiming he'd nationalise English football...and technically he could.
		
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think his successor is keeping his head down having been slung out of the pub earlier


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now the Premier League help pump in around £7bn into the countries economy- just imagine how much extra revenue they potentially could earn from extra matches , increases wages for more tax and revenue. The government will do sweet FA just like they did nothing for any other sport that created new competitions
		
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Sounds like you’ve gone from won’t to If to done deal.

Personally I’d be happy for anybody to get involved to try and stop this from happening, so I’ll wait and see.👍🏻


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Who provides the licensing laws, *Police Support*, Overseas Works Permits etc etc, those are just a few of the ways any Government could make it difficult if not impossible to any PL teams wanting to join the ESL.
		
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It appears the clubs currently pay an average of £8,500 per game, the average cost being £11,000.  

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/cost-of-policing-is-making-clubs-pay-more-the-answer/

It will be a case of cutting ff their nose to spite their face as whilst they will save a few quid, they will lose out on the duty from the alcohol consumed, business rates as local businesses that need fans support go under and no doubt other things.  The pub we use on match day reckon that football patronage covers their annual break even costs.  It's a very complicated equation.


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## IanM (Apr 19, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I thought that European clubs had to be free of government control/funding etc.
		
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That would be a UEFA Regulation.   They are miffed as they don't have their nose in this trough!  So, they'll be happy to put the boot in



fundy said:



			think his successor is keeping his head down having been slung out of the pub earlier
		
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Ooh. Missed that


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Some chatter that UEFA will meet tomorrow with a motion throwing City, Chelsea and Real Madrid out of the CL and Man U and Arsenal out of the Europa League
		
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And that gives the CL to PSG 😂 imagine that - the same PSG owned by Qatar who are getting the World Cup 🤔😂



pauldj42 said:



*Sounds like you’ve gone from won’t to If to done deal.*

Personally I’d be happy for anybody to get involved to try and stop this from happening, so I’ll wait and see.👍🏻
		
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Not sure what all that means 

I still think it’s posturing because of the proposed changes to the CL by UEFA


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It appears the clubs currently pay an average of £8,500 per game, the average cost being £11,000. 

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/cost-of-policing-is-making-clubs-pay-more-the-answer/

It will be a case of cutting ff their nose to spite their face as whilst they will save a few quid, they will lose out on the duty from the alcohol consumed, business rates as local businesses that need fans support go under and no doubt other things.  The pub we use on match day reckon that football patronage covers their annual break even costs.  It's a very complicated equation.
		
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No doubt mate, but they have influences in lots of other areas that can have an impact, plus, how much revenue would they lose if Clubs went under due to this ESL and that’s without considering impacts on local communities etc.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 19, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Then so be it - but the player loses their right for international football and other competitions. Its no different to Oscar moving from Chelsea to Shanghai - for the player, more money, rubbish competition and wont get selected for Brazil playing there. But hes happy earning buckets of cash.

I'm a home and away supporter of my club. I donated heavily to help save Bury, I own shares of a team up north too (fan owned). Thats exactly the fan any club wants. Ive travelled the country, put money into local economies and enjoy everything about English football. The "big 6" are trying to destroy our beautiful game, not me.

My views that the players (of the big 6 currently) arent yet responsible are not inconsistent. They've not had their say yet although I doubt many will speak publicly due to fear of losing money from their employer.

The 6 clubs need a strong hard boot out of the EFL/ Premier league. They have lost all my respect and deserve to fail.
		
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I've also been to 70 league grounds, 30 European games, seen my team on 3 different continents for over 40 years, season ticket holder for 35 years (maybe not next year).

The big 6 OWNERS are trying to destroy it for their own self centred greed NOT the big 6 FANS, so punish thousands of match goers for something out of their own hands? Seriously????? You mentioned not the "fault" of players, well its not the "fault" of the top 6 fans - thats your massive inconsistency.

What chance do we have of fan solidarity with "fans" like you.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 19, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Fact remains that money is the guiding factor in football. Being the best costs the most.

The clubs belong to the owners. They decide what direction the club takes. The fans can think they have a voice but in all honesty, they don't. The owners will try and make as much mobney from their investment as they possibly can and they all see this as an opportunity to do so. The 'soul' of the club is irrelevant when they can make a stack of cash
		
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So we just give up then?

Not where I live we wont.


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## Captainron (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So we just give up then?

Not where I live we wont.
		
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You could always become an Everton fan.......


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 19, 2021)

Captainron said:



			You could always become an Everton fan.......
		
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I'd fail the bitterness test......just.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd fail the bitterness test......just. 

Click to expand...

You’d sail it La 😊


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			think his successor is keeping his head down having been slung out of the pub earlier
		
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Probably not the correct thread for this comment and need to be very careful about getting political but, having seen the video, what gives Keir Starmer's security (or that of any other politician) the right to man handle the owner of a business on private property, especially when that private property is the owner's own business premises.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2021)

Brilliant from TAA he should be playing for England.
Oh hang on !


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Probably not the correct thread for this comment and need to be very careful about getting political but, having seen the video, what gives Keir Starmer's security (or that of any other politician) the right to man handle the owner of a business on private property, especially when that private property is the owner's own business premises.
		
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That was the first thing that went through my mind.
What a Liberty.
He should sue him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Probably not the correct thread for this comment and need to be very careful about getting political but, having seen the video, what gives Keir Starmer's security (or that of any other politician) the right to man handle the owner of a business on private property, especially when that private property is the owner's own business premises.
		
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The location is irrelevant if the security believe he is under threat and it would be the same for any political figure assigned Police protection.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2021)

Might be just me but I find the CL really boring.
Some good games later on in the knockout ,but mostly crap possession based football.
Playing top teams will lose its appeal if it happens to often.

Wonder if the rumours about Klopp leaving a few weeks ago have anything to do with this.?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The location is irrelevant if the security believe he is under threat and it would be the same for any political figure assigned Police protection.
		
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He repeatedly asks him to leave .
Starmer  just stood there shocked I think.
Minder dosnt really restrain him just stops him getting past.
But it didn’t look good as a PR visit.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He repeatedly asks him to leave .
Starmer  just stood there shocked I think.
Minder dosnt really restrain him just stops him getting past.
But it didn’t look good as a PR visit.
		
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He doesn’t ask him to leave until Starmer has entered, they let him speak to him outside and you hear Starmer say shall we go in, that’s when the manager should of spoke up, if you watch he suddenly remembers he can bar him and runs after him and the Security guy (possible Police) steps in as he perceives a threat.


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## Beezerk (Apr 19, 2021)

Sneaky stamp by Salah that 😏


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## pauljames87 (Apr 19, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Sneaky stamp by Salah that 😏
		
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Big result that 

Can only drop to 5th now if Chelsea win

I wonder how much all this "big 6" talk is going to anger all the other teams into putting all they can for rest of season to prove a point.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 19, 2021)

Well said.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1384252197081272326


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He doesn’t ask him to leave until Starmer has entered, they let him speak to him outside and you hear Starmer say shall we go in, that’s when the manager should of spoke up, if you watch he suddenly remembers he can bar him and runs after him and the Security guy (possible Police) steps in as he perceives a threat.
		
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Never seen the outside bit until 10 news.
Playing to the cameras a bit?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Sneaky stamp by Salah that 😏
		
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The defender is pulling his shirt.
When he goes to ground it does look a stamp.

He missed another golden chance to kill the game then Leeds equaliser a min later.
I have never seen a Liverpool side give the ball away so much ,it’s a problem now.
Thought Leeds deserved the draw, we seemed to sit back and play on the counter second half , but the strikers are missing chances to much now and it will cost us.
But if the Super League happens it dosnt matter really.


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## SteveW86 (Apr 19, 2021)

Will we have an ESL thread next season for fans of the big 6?


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## BiMGuy (Apr 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The defender is pulling his shirt.
When he goes to ground it does look a stamp.

He missed another golden chance to kill the game then Leeds equaliser a min later.
I have never seen a Liverpool side give the ball away so much ,it’s a problem now.
Thought Leeds deserved the draw, we seemed to sit back and play on the counter second half , but the strikers are missing chances to much now and it will cost us.
But if the Super League happens it dosnt matter really.
		
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It was a clear stamp. Llorente pulling his shirt doesn't justify being stamped on.

Liverpool could have been out of sight after an hour, but were lucky to hold on for a point in the last half an hour.

I thought the interviews after from Paddy and Milner hit the right spot.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Will we have an ESL thread next season for fans of the big 6?
		
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Think Fans might be thin on the ground.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			It was a clear stamp. Llorente pulling his shirt doesn't justify being stamped on.

Liverpool could have been out of sight after an hour, but were lucky to hold on for a point in the last half an hour.

I thought the interviews after from Paddy and Milner hit the right spot.
		
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Not justified anything I said it looked like a stamp.but pulling his shirt does unbalance a player and the ref should have given a foul.
One of the reasons players dive.!


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## pauljames87 (Apr 19, 2021)




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## pauljames87 (Apr 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He repeatedly asks him to leave .
Starmer  just stood there shocked I think.
Minder dosnt really restrain him just stops him getting past.
But it didn’t look good as a PR visit.
		
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When Sir Keir stepped inside The Raven for a visit that had been pre-arranged with one of the owners, Mr Humphris told him to "get out of my pub".

The co-owner, Tim Perry, has since apologised to Labour.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56805144.amp


The 54-year-old, who said he does not agree with coronavirus lockdowns, said the Labour leader had walked in to his pub without asking.

Can't anyone walk into a public house without asking? As it's a public house


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 36259

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We need to make this new name stick 😂


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## Tashyboy (Apr 20, 2021)

So the Real Madrid president says they are doing this super league to save football. It’s not football that needs saving, it needs protecting from planks like him.


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## BiMGuy (Apr 20, 2021)

Funny how quite Liverpool fans have been the last 24 hours.

When they beat us on the first gsme of the season I was bombarded with messages. Not a single one yesterday 😁.


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## Orikoru (Apr 20, 2021)

England team minus the Super League lads when they're banned:

Pope; Justin, Coady, Mings, Cresswell; Rice, Ward-Prowse, Bellingham; Sancho, Calvert-Lewin, Grealish. Honestly not much worse off.  Only missing Kane and Foden really.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			When Sir Keir stepped inside The Raven for a visit that had been pre-arranged with one of the owners, Mr Humphris told him to "get out of my pub".

The co-owner, Tim Perry, has since apologised to Labour.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56805144.amp


The 54-year-old, who said he does not agree with coronavirus lockdowns, said the Labour leader had walked in to his pub without asking.

Can't anyone walk into a public house without asking? As it's a public house
		
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Not sure atm . .( COVID rules)
Do you need an app to book your time slot.
Does look a bit like playing to the cameras the more I see it.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 20, 2021)

Reported that Chelsea to leave the super league ASAP. Seeing as there not yet in it re not having kicked a ball, how hard is it to get out. Hopefully City will not be far behind..


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## Orikoru (Apr 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Reported that Chelsea to leave the super league ASAP. Seeing as there not yet in it re not having kicked a ball, how hard is it to get out. Hopefully City will not be far behind..
		
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Depends what they've signed I guess! Or maybe even invested already.


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## Slime (Apr 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Reported that Chelsea to leave the super league ASAP. Seeing as there not yet in it re not having kicked a ball, how hard is it to get out. Hopefully City will not be far behind..
		
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I heard that Man City ditched the ESL first, good on 'em.
I fear that the Glazers will be the last to give up, greedy bastards!
At least Ed Woodward has tendered his resignation.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			I heard that Man City ditched the ESL first, good on 'em.
*I fear that the Glazers will be the last to give up, greedy bastards!*
At least Ed Woodward has tendered his resignation. 

Click to expand...

At least that would give you a trophy. By definition the last team to withdraw from the ESL will be the inaugural (and probably the only ever) winner of the tournament.


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## Slime (Apr 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			At least that would give you a trophy. By definition the last team to withdraw from the ESL will be the inaugural (and probably the only ever) winner of the tournament.
		
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That's a trophy United WON'T want to win.


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## USER1999 (Apr 20, 2021)

Given they (the ESL teams) must have spent more than 6 months on this, and boat loads of cash, to quit this early is a bit meh? 

What do they gain by quitting now?


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## Billysboots (Apr 20, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Given they (the ESL teams) must have spent more than 6 months on this, and boat loads of cash, to quit this early is a bit meh?

*What do they gain by quitting now?*

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Possibly that they listened to the fans - although if they hadn’t anticipated the backlash they must be even more stupid than we give them credit for!


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## GB72 (Apr 20, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Given they (the ESL teams) must have spent more than 6 months on this, and boat loads of cash, to quit this early is a bit meh?

What do they gain by quitting now?
		
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First guess is that man city and Chelsea were going out if the champions League at the end of the week


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## 4LEX (Apr 20, 2021)

Chelsea and City weren't behind this, it was the Americans at Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal. They sought to take advantage of the pandemic and clubs like Barcelona, Real and Inter who have huge financial issues. The other clubs went for it to stop themselves being left behind, not that it lets othem off the hook but at least they've done a U-turn.

Woodward goes for his part and rightly so. He's destroyed Utd as a major force, devalued the brand with cheap sponsorship deals and failed to get Haaland, Bellingham and Sancho in the last 18 months alone. This business summed up the arrogance of the man.

These owners have masssively overplayed their hand and share prices are on the slide. This is the time for Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal fans to boycott their clubs and launch serious protests to force the owners out


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 20, 2021)

GB72 said:



			First guess is that man city and Chelsea were going out if the champions League at the end of the week
		
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Leaving UEFA with no semi finals or final and a broadcasting contract to fulfil.


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## Slime (Apr 20, 2021)

4LEX said:



			This is the time for Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal fans to boycott their clubs and launch serious protests to force the owners out 

Click to expand...

I think their positions as owners of these clubs is now untenable.
I think they'll be looking for potential buyers very soon ...................................... I certainly bloody hope so.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 20, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Fact remains that money is the guiding factor in football. Being the best costs the most.

The clubs belong to the owners. They decide what direction the club takes. The fans can think they have a voice but in all honesty, they don't. The owners will try and make as much mobney from their investment as they possibly can and they all see this as an opportunity to do so. The 'soul' of the club is irrelevant when they can make a stack of cash
		
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Oh ye of little faith.

One down, one to go.

£50 or below for top 100 courses, twilight deals next ..........


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## 4LEX (Apr 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			I think their positions as owners of these clubs is now untenable.
I think they'll be looking for potential buyers very soon ...................................... I certainly bloody hope so.
		
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The mental thing is Utd would gain more from a decent owner not sucking money out, than they would from the European Super League over the years. Imagine that £50-80m a year the Glazers take from the club in interest to fund their loans and debt secured to buy Utd and then numerous refinancing of said debt.

Since the Glazers have been at Utd they've taken over £1b from the club in interest payments alone. That's money the club earnt and should have been reinvested in the stadium, academy, transfers and keeping ticket prices low.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 20, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Funny how quite Liverpool fans have been the last 24 hours.

When they beat us on the first gsme of the season I was bombarded with messages. Not a single one yesterday 😁.
		
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I think there were a lot bigger things at stake.


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## Slime (Apr 21, 2021)

Well, that didn't last long!


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## fundy (Apr 21, 2021)

Thats better we can go back to talking about VAR again now lol


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## SaintHacker (Apr 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			Thats better we can go back to talking about VAR again now lol 

Click to expand...

Lets not


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## Tashyboy (Apr 21, 2021)

As a neutral, I thought it was a shocker. Yes he caught him, but from what I saw none of the Spurs player was actually in the box. The ball was level with the line. But if that’s a goal line the balls not over so it’s not a goal. So how was it a penalty.


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## fundy (Apr 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			As a neutral, I thought it was a shocker. Yes he caught him, but from what I saw none of the Spurs player was actually in the box. The ball was level with the line. But if that’s a goal line the balls not over so it’s not a goal. So how was it a penalty.
		
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on the line is in the box for a foul, different rule to a goal where whole ball has to be over the line


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## SaintHacker (Apr 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			As a neutral, I thought it was a shocker. Yes he caught him, but from what I saw none of the Spurs player was actually in the box. The ball was level with the line. But if that’s a goal line the balls not over so it’s not a goal. So how was it a penalty.
		
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Not only that, there was a massive handball by the spurs player in the build up. Both arms above his head away from his body, yet not given. Spurs fans will no doubt argue KWP also handballed it first but his arm was by his side and Vestergaard drilled it into him from a yard away.
Yet the foul, no one asked for a pen, no one questioned the refs decision, everyone accepted it was free kick, then var gets involved...
I've said it before but every single game virtually is being affected by this awful system. Unless its binned or radically changed next season I can see the being me done with top flight football.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 21, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Not only that, there was a massive handball by the spurs player in the build up. Both arms above his head away from his body, yet not given. Spurs fans will no doubt argue KWP also handballed it first but his arm was by his side and Vestergaard drilled it into him from a yard away.
Yet the foul, no one asked for a pen, no one questioned the refs decision, everyone accepted it was free kick, then var gets involved...
I've said it before but every single game virtually is being affected by this awful system. Unless its binned or radically changed next season I can see the being me done with top flight football.
		
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Your saying what ave said for an age. Every player accepts what is going on then VAR spots something. I thought the Spurs players would be getting pins and needles in there hands running around with them above There head so much.
I would be livid if that decision had gone against us. 
For me the rules are as clear as mud.
A goal, all the ball has to be over the line.
off side, Any part of the body is offside, even a part you cannot score with.
Penalty, the player don’t have to be in the box, just the ball on the line, not over it.


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## Rlburnside (Apr 21, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Not only that, there was a massive handball by the spurs player in the build up. Both arms above his head away from his body, yet not given. Spurs fans will no doubt argue KWP also handballed it first but his arm was by his side and Vestergaard drilled it into him from a yard away.
Yet the foul, no one asked for a pen, no one questioned the refs decision, everyone accepted it was free kick, then var gets involved...
I've said it before but every single game virtually is being affected by this awful system. Unless its binned or radically changed next season I can see the being me done with top flight football.
		
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Think it was Hojbjerg your speaking about I thought he had his elbows tucked near his side and not above his head plus he was to close when the ball hit him as was the Southampton player when the ball hit him in the arm.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 21, 2021)

It was a pen. It was on the line and I wouldn't argue for the spurs handball as it only went that way after coming off a saints players arm seconds previously. Imo neither were handball.

Whether we like VAR is another thing. But the right decision was made unfortunately.


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## fundy (Apr 21, 2021)

Seems the real John Stones is back

time for a bath


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## pokerjoke (Apr 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			Seems the real John Stones is back

time for a bath
		
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He’s a bloody liability,if he plays for England we are doomed.
These Villa players are not even world class.


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## fundy (Apr 21, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



*He’s a bloody liability,if he plays for England we are doomed.*
These Villa players are not even world class.
		
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Problem is you could be writing that about pretty much every England centre half


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## AmandaJR (Apr 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			Seems the real John Stones is back

time for a bath
		
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Sadly he's been showing signs of a return to his best for a while! Total misjudgement for the Villa goal and the challenge.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 21, 2021)

It seems that what looked like a stroll for the title has turned into squeaky bum time again.🤔


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## fundy (Apr 21, 2021)

Well Cash let Stones well and truly off the hook, Villa barely kicked the ball after it was 10 against 10. Foden excellent again


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 21, 2021)

Very good from City they controlled the game completely.
Think Cash will have an appointment with the manager in the morning.
What a silly challenge.


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## Orikoru (Apr 21, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Not only that, there was a massive handball by the spurs player in the build up. Both arms above his head away from his body, yet not given. Spurs fans will no doubt argue KWP also handballed it first but his arm was by his side and Vestergaard drilled it into him from a yard away.
Yet the foul, no one asked for a pen, no one questioned the refs decision, everyone accepted it was free kick, then var gets involved...
I've said it before but every single game virtually is being affected by this awful system. Unless its binned or radically changed next season I can see the being me done with top flight football.
		
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Strange comment. Just because none of the players realised the contact was in the box doesn't make it the wrong decision to give a penalty...


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## pauljames87 (Apr 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Strange comment. Just because none of the players realised the contact was in the box doesn't make it the wrong decision to give a penalty...
		
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Quite 

If anything this is var doing its job 

We had a pen last week for handball nobody saw but it was handball and it was missed by the ref


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Strange comment. Just because none of the players realised the contact was in the box doesn't make it the wrong decision to give a penalty...
		
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I think the tackle was in the box but it looked like handball by Spurs player just before.
If you put your hands up like that in a wall it’s handball.
Players are told this often by refs. There is no consistency .
But bad challenge


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## Orikoru (Apr 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think the tackle was in the box but it looked like handball by Spurs player just before.
If you put your hands up like that in a wall it’s handball.
Players are told this often by refs. There is no consistency .
But bad challenge
		
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I didn't see this, only saw the 3 minute highlights of the game so can't comment on the hand ball incident. But I will say the hand ball rule is a total mess and they change how they implement it from one week to the next. It needs rewriting from scratch, it reads like something that's been redrafted 12 times (because it has).


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Quite

If anything this is var doing its job

We had a pen last week for handball nobody saw but it was handball and it was missed by the ref
		
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Yes I agree .
But it’s the ones that don’t get flagged by VAR that the ref has missed that’s annoying.
Kyle Walker quite clearly fouled Villa player who would have been through on goal , nothing given by ref.
Could have been a red.??
Use it all the time or not at all imo.
Jeez can u imagine how long a game would take if they used it for everything.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I didn't see this, only saw the 3 minute highlights of the game so can't comment on the hand ball incident. But I will say the hand ball rule is a total mess and they change how they implement it from one week to the next. It needs rewriting from scratch, it reads like something that's been redrafted 12 times (because it has).
		
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He had his upper arms by his sides but his forearms up to protect his face imo.
But that’s given as handball all the time elsewhere.
That’s a big problem imo fouls that are given all the time everywhere but if it’s in the box just ignored.


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## SaintHacker (Apr 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Strange comment. Just because none of the players realised the contact was in the box doesn't make it the wrong decision to give a penalty...
		
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Not really. Var was brought in to correct clear and obvious errors. And in this particular instance it was so marginal even with var there's no way they could definitely say that was on/behind the line. No one asked for a pen, no one appealed,  no one chased the ref after he gave the free kick. Its taking any power away from on field officials which is wrong.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Not really. Var was brought in to correct clear and obvious errors. And in this particular instance it was so marginal even with var there's no way they could definitely say that was on/behind the line. No one asked for a pen, no one appealed,  no one chased the ref after he gave the free kick. Its taking any power away from on field officials which is wrong.
		
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Doesn't matter if nobody appeals tho 

The correct decision was applied so it worked 

If they had got it wrong like said it was in the box when it was a yard outside then yes it would be s disgrace


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## Tashyboy (Apr 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Doesn't matter if nobody appeals tho

The correct decision was applied so it worked

If they had got it wrong like said it was in the box when it was a yard outside then yes it would be s disgrace
		
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What I couldn’t understand ( so I don’t mind being educated here) the ref was advised to look on the screen, Why? Why could VAR not look at that and make the decision. Re the Stones sending off decision, yes I understand why the ref went to look to see if it should be upgraded to a straight red


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## pauljames87 (Apr 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			What I couldn’t understand ( so I don’t mind being educated here) the ref was advised to look on the screen, Why? Why could VAR not look at that and make the decision. Re the Stones sending off decision, yes I understand why the ref went to look to see if it should be upgraded to a straight red
		
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I believe that it's because it's his decision 

Like the west ham pen other day they said have another look see if you still think the same 

So he looks again , shown the angles and then makes his final decision 

Most change 

I've seen about 2 stick


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## SaintHacker (Apr 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Doesn't matter if nobody appeals tho

The correct decision was applied so it worked

If they had got it wrong like said it was in the box when it was a yard outside then yes it would be s disgrace
		
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It wasnt an obvious error.
There is no way from the camera angle the var could tell if the contact happened on or behind the line.
End of.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			It wasnt an obvious error.
There is no way from the camera angle the var could tell if the contact happened on or behind the line.
End of.
		
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Well their clearly is a way because that's exactly what happened 

You are far too emotionally attached to be objective on the subject.. ofc it's "wrong" with the red and white tinted specs on


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## SaintHacker (Apr 22, 2021)

Lol, ok then


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## pauljames87 (Apr 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Lol, ok then
		
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Your manager seems to think the decision was correct ... Well correct for one reason 

"If it's a foul it was a penalty. But I have seen the same thing in first half in the middle of the pitch and we didn't get a foul. It's hard to take but we have to."

No mention of on the line ... Not on line.. managers normally moan if it's wrong

Sounds fine.


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## Orikoru (Apr 22, 2021)

The contact with his foot was on the line, which counts as in the box. You can see it on the replay, so if not giving the penalty would have been an obvious error. 

I can't remember the last time Spurs got a penalty that nobody complained about. Can anyone else remember?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			It wasnt an obvious error.
There is no way from the camera angle the var could tell if the contact happened on or behind the line.
End of.
		
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I only seen it on MOTD and the still they showed on there was very blurred.
It looked on the line but to be absolutely sure they must have had a better photo than that.
I could not see the players feet it was so blurred.
Stupid tackle though just stay on your feet and block the shot.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The contact with his foot was on the line, which counts as in the box. You can see it on the replay, so if not giving the penalty would have been an obvious error.

I can't remember the last time Spurs got a penalty that nobody complained about. Can anyone else remember?
		
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We always complain when someone else gets a pen.
Might have something to do with the amount of divers you have up front!
Same thing when we get one.


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## AmandaJR (Apr 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It seems that what looked like a stroll for the title has turned into squeaky bum time again.🤔
		
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I couldn't bloody sleep after that.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			Well Cash let Stones well and truly off the hook, Villa barely kicked the ball after it was 10 against 10. Foden excellent again
		
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Yes what a lovely footballer to watch.
Thing I like is he stays on his feet and tries to carry on when most PL players would be screaming and on the floor.
Just hope he stays that way!


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## Orikoru (Apr 22, 2021)

The thing I dislike about Foden is the way he waited until I'd just taken him out of my fantasy team before he scored again.


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## AmandaJR (Apr 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes what a lovely footballer to watch.
Thing I like is he stays on his feet and tries to carry on when most PL players would be screaming and on the floor.
Just hope he stays that way!
		
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His balance is amazing and I think he gets past players when they think he's going down but then carries on. How refreshing it would be if others with his ability realised it's a gift and used it more.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			His balance is amazing and I think he gets past players when they think he's going down but then carries on. How refreshing it would be if others with his ability realised it's a gift and used it more.
		
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Foden is just a wonderful player , been managed perfectly by Pep

It made me laugh when people were being critical of Pep about him because he wasn’t playing him enough or sending him on loan - they looked at Sancho who left and also Bellingham but it’s clear that Pep knew exactly what he was doing with Foden happy to be patient and now look at him 

England fans should be very excited about the future with the young players 

TAA ,James , Gomez , Rice , Foden , Bellingham , Sancho , Grealish , Maddison , Rashford , Greenwood then add in expirence players like Kane , Sterling - very impressive and all players who have shown they can play at the highest level

Find a couple of CB’s and a manager to be able to knit it together - exciting times


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## Orikoru (Apr 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Foden is just a wonderful player , been managed perfectly by Pep

It made me laugh when people were being critical of Pep about him because he wasn’t playing him enough or sending him on loan - they looked at Sancho who left and also Bellingham but it’s clear that Pep knew exactly what he was doing with Foden happy to be patient and now look at him

England fans should be very excited about the future with the young players

TAA ,James , Gomez , Rice , Foden , Bellingham , Sancho , Grealish , Maddison , Rashford , Greenwood then add in expirence players like Kane , Sterling - very impressive and all players who have shown they can play at the highest level

*Find a couple of CB’s and a manager to be able to knit it together - exciting times*

Click to expand...

Yeah - it is a shame that we're so massively lacking in centre backs and goalkeepers, because in most of the other positions we have good players available now. Ultimately it's at the back that will cost us.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 22, 2021)

😳


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## GG26 (Apr 22, 2021)

3rd in the league and an FA Cup Final to look forward to. Ticket arrangements for the final are not out yet, but it would be great to be there.


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2021)

5.6 for Ceballos, awful


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2021)

lol joke pen has to be overruled by an elbow being a mm offside


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2021)

Disgraceful decision, VAR is embarrassing!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2021)

Yes!!! Get in


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2021)

cant believe VAR didnt disallow it lol

Xhaka sold so easily and as for Leno


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2021)

Will be good if we can hang on, we should be 2 or 3 behind in this 2nd half.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2021)

Played better and lost this season, stupid game!


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Played better and lost this season, stupid game!
		
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truly awful game, 2 poor sides, no quality or effort

a horror error the only way either looked like scoring and were always short price to be the ones to have that error

no doubt there will be plenty of excuses, sadly the truth is we arent actually very good


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			truly awful game, 2 poor sides, no quality or effort

a horror error the only way either looked like scoring and were always short price to be the ones to have that error

no doubt there will be plenty of excuses, sadly the truth is we arent actually very good
		
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I thought your 2 man substitution helped us, the 2 lads who went off had caused trouble and then bringing Willian on against Coleman was odd.


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I thought your 2 man substitution helped us, the 2 lads who went off had caused trouble and then bringing Willian on against Coleman was odd.
		
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bringing willian on is always odd


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2021)

Arsenal ............................. one of the 'Big 6'.  
Magnificent.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 24, 2021)

Well that sums up our season 

Outstanding finish from the World Class one season wonder 

Miss 20 plus chances , then drop the points in the last minute 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 24, 2021)

VAR, just ridiculous!! Surely it has to review all elements of that attack!


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 24, 2021)

Sitting here listening to the discussion regarding VAR and next season's rule changes, I can only wonder at what those making the rules have been smoking.  Their IQ must be lower than my handicap.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2021)

I am wondering if Klopp watches these games back.
It’s the same every week.
Miss a sackful of easy chances then score a world class goal.
Playing a high line with no pace at the back .
We were lucky to get a point in the end . A push in the back should be a penalty.
Handball rule is a joke.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am wondering if Klopp watches these games back.
It’s the same every week.
Miss a sackful of easy chances then score a world class goal.
Playing a high line with no pace at the back .
We were lucky to get a point in the end . A push in the back should be a penalty.
Handball rule is a joke.
		
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Wow that's a big result for us 

I'm sure we will crumble this evening but if we manage to scrape 3 points that would push a bit of daylight


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Wow that's a big result for us

I'm sure we will crumble this evening but if we manage to scrape 3 points that would push a bit of daylight
		
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Just listening to Klopp he looks shocked .
Plan A got us a draw again.
End of the day we didn’t deserve to win.
20+ chances 1 goal that’s shocking.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2021)

One for Liverpool fans. Do you stick with your front 3 next season, scoring 1 chance in 10 or whatever it is, or do you freshen up? Who stays, who goes?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for Liverpool fans. Do you stick with your front 3 next season, scoring 1 chance in 10 or whatever it is, or do you freshen up? Who stays, who goes?
		
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Don’t see too many changes for the front 4 - maybe look at someone young to replace Origi’s place in the squad but unless something dramatic happens those front 4 will start next season , the main changes will be at CB and who comes in for Gini 

The team needs the season to be finished and a rest in the summer more than anything plus the main two CB’s to return.

ceetainly no big signings


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## hairball_89 (Apr 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t see too many changes for the front 4 - maybe look at someone young to replace Origi’s place in the squad but unless something dramatic happens those front 4 will start next season , the main changes will be at CB and who comes in for Gini

The team needs the season to be finished and a rest in the summer more than anything plus the main two CB’s to return.

ceetainly no big signings
		
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Yup. Exactly this. Nothing major. I see the likes of Origi, Shaq, possibly Matip being moved on (if someone would take them!). Who knows on Minamino and Keita. 

But the big moves will be a midfielder to replace gini and 1/2 centre backs. That would do me. But another forward would be great. Don't see it however, unless mane or salah leave.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 24, 2021)

Blimey now that’s a great point for Newcastle at the death 😊


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 24, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Yup. Exactly this. Nothing major. I see the likes of Origi, Shaq, possibly Matip being moved on (if someone would take them!). Who knows on Minamino and Keita.

But the big moves will be a midfielder to replace gini and 1/2 centre backs. That would do me. But another forward would be great. Don't see it however, unless mane or salah leave.
		
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Origi and Shaqiri definitely leaving imo - 

Minamino and Keita both in the same boat - both have all the ability in the world to be key players but durability lacking from both . If decent bids then maybe they go but can see both staying - Matip I don’t think will leave , and they will either go with 5 CB’s - VVD, Gomez , Kounte , Kabak and Matip or they don’t buy Kabak 

Gini replacement is a guarentee imo


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for Liverpool fans. Do you stick with your front 3 next season, scoring 1 chance in 10 or whatever it is, or do you freshen up? Who stays, who goes?
		
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I have said for a while we need a top class goal scorer ( not easy to come by or cheap)
All three score good goals but their conversion rate is poor imo.
Klopp likes a false 9 but I would prefer a proper CF.
But he’s in charge.


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## Piece (Apr 24, 2021)

Ahhhh, I’m officially allowed to post again in this thread!


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## SaintHacker (Apr 24, 2021)

Piece said:




Ahhhh, I’m officially allowed to post again in this thread!
		
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For a year anyway😜


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## Paperboy (Apr 24, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			For a year anyway😜
		
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Might be the same for you


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## SaintHacker (Apr 24, 2021)

Paperboy said:



			Might be the same for you 

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With everything thats happened over the last few seasons, not just with us but with football in general, i wouldn't be at all upset. Never thought I'd say this but after over 40 years of loving the game i am seriously losing interest at the moment 😔


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2021)

that might just be the worst VAR red card lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 24, 2021)

Is that really a red card 😲 he has just kicked the ball and caught the player on the follow through 🤷‍♂️ - how can he do anything different


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			that might just be the worst VAR red card lol
		
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Sometimes a player knows what he is doing when he follows through, but in this instance, never. Shocking red card.


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that really a red card 😲 he has just kicked the ball and caught the player on the follow through 🤷‍♂️ - how can he do anything different
		
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genuinely whats the point, they just make it up as they go along


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## chrisd (Apr 24, 2021)

Not sure that's a sending off, normal speed it didnt look deliberate


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 24, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Not sure that's a sending off, normal speed it didnt look deliberate
		
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That was my exact thought as well. The problem comes when they slow it down and look at it from multiple angles it looks worse than it is. Ref should always be shown the replay at full speed and then if necessary slow it down after that. The other issue is that when a ref is asked to go and view the screen they have to automatically be thinking "what did I miss" or "this must possibly be a red card" otherwise why are they being asked to look again. They're viewing the replays with red card already at the forefront of their decision making.


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2021)

They need to be put in front of the media, asked on what basis its a red card and what they think the player could have done differently, its way beyond a joke now


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## chrisd (Apr 24, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That was my exact thought as well. The problem comes when they slow it down and look at it from multiple angles it looks worse than it is. Ref should always be shown the replay at full speed and then if necessary slow it down after that. The other issue is that when a ref is asked to go and view the screen they have to automatically be thinking "what did I miss" or "this must possibly be a red card" otherwise why are they being asked to look again. They're viewing the replays with red card already at the forefront of their decision making.
		
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They did show it normal speed when he arrived at the TV but obviously the ref didnt see it as a "natural" follow through.  I think a yellow would have been the right decision


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2021)

*
Liam Cooper* @LiamCooper__
4m


I tell you what.. Scrap tackling because every single week something is getting slowed down to make it look 100% worse. Chilwell has the right to go down as it’s a sore one. But that’s it!  Red card? Never in a million years.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 24, 2021)

chrisd said:



			They did show it normal speed when he arrived at the TV but obviously the ref didnt see it as a "natural" follow through.  I think a yellow would have been the right decision
		
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Can he give a yellow after a video review? Or does it have to be red or nothing?


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can he give a yellow after a video review? Or does it have to be red or nothing?
		
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red or nothing


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2021)

*Andros Townsend*
@andros_townsend

I can’t believe it..... I’ve just witnessed a man get sent off by clearing the ball.... this has to stop..... THE GAMES GONE 
	
	
		
		
	


	



#WHUCHE


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## Orikoru (Apr 24, 2021)

Just seen the West Ham red. Get VAR in the bin. Dear me. The Chelsea player slides in under his feet while he's kicking the ball, what do they expect him today? Has to be another example of a ref who has never played football in his life.


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## Fade and Die (Apr 24, 2021)

Didi Hamann on talksport in the week said something like “we gain so little and lose so much with VAR, it’s time to bin it” I make him 100% right....


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2021)

Expected to come on and read that it was a red. Thought was just my bias view that it wasn't 

Wonder if we will appeal 

Moyes doesn't do well against the top 6.. hasnt all season


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## 4LEX (Apr 24, 2021)

VAR is as bad as the European Super League, it's killing the game. Shocking stuff yet again today.

Anyone see Jon Moss last night? I''m sure he's a nice guy but he's fat, out of shape and it's disgusting anyone of his ilk is reffing a game of elite athletes. How can players respect refs when they can't even respect their own bodies. Embarrassing seeing him panting and trying to slow the game game with cheap whistle blowing.


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## 4LEX (Apr 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am wondering if Klopp watches these games back.
It’s the same every week.
Miss a sackful of easy chances then score a world class goal.
Playing a high line with no pace at the back .
We were lucky to get a point in the end . A push in the back should be a penalty.
Handball rule is a joke.
		
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You've gotta get a proper striker in to be honest. Firmino is finished and his stats show it for the last 2 years. Jota is a great signing but you need a striker who can head and finish. The quality of the crossing and to have no one who can head is mindboggling. Much easier to cross to someones head than feet.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can he give a yellow after a video review? Or does it have to be red or nothing?
		
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That’s the problem in a nut shell .
The refs in charge he should be able to do whatever he wants.
VaR should be to help him not handcuff him.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2021)

4LEX said:



			You've gotta get a proper striker in to be honest. Firmino is finished and his stats show it for the last 2 years. Jota is a great signing but you need a striker who can head and finish. The quality of the crossing and to have no one who can head is mindboggling. Much easier to cross to someones head than feet.
		
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Agree.
I see Robbo and TAA turn around and play backwards because there is nobody in the box.
Firmino is a spare midfield player and never on the shoulder of the defenders. He’s a poor finisher as well.
But scratching my head over the finishing.
How does Mo miss easy sitters but score a goal like today?
There is nothing worse as a defender watching your strikers miss chance after chance .
There is a voice saying “ one mistake and your getting the blame here”
Halland would score 50 a season with the chances we make.


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## 4LEX (Apr 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree.
I see Robbo and TAA turn around and play backwards because there is nobody in the box.
Firmino is a spare midfield player and never on the shoulder of the defenders. He’s a poor finisher as well.
But scratching my head over the finishing.
How does Mo miss easy sitters but score a goal like today?
There is nothing worse as a defender watching your strikers miss chance after chance .
There is a voice saying “ one mistake and your getting the blame here”
Halland would score 50 a season with the chances we make.
		
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Mate it's so frustrating even as a neutral. You've got the best set of Attacking WB's and crossers in the world and nothing in the middle. Even your Plan B is a midget or who someone who can't head. If you signed Dzeko as a super sub he'd still win you 15 points a season.

Mo has always been a scratchy finisher, he's returned to his usual level IMO. Which has exposed the cracks he paperered over. Mane too has gone off the radar totally. I think a good preseason, targetman and you'll be back to 80-90 points. Not sure you'll get Haaland though.


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## chrisd (Apr 24, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can he give a yellow after a video review? Or does it have to be red or nothing?
		
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I didnt see the incident live, just picked it up on the review, I assumed (wrongly) that he has shown yellow


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree.
I see Robbo and TAA turn around and play backwards because there is nobody in the box.
Firmino is a spare midfield player and never on the shoulder of the defenders. He’s a poor finisher as well.
But scratching my head over the finishing.
How does Mo miss easy sitters but score a goal like today?
There is nothing worse as a defender watching your strikers miss chance after chance .
There is a voice saying “ one mistake and your getting the blame here”
Halland would score 50 a season with the chances we make.
		
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It’s Haaland and he is way out of our price range - 

You have said for three years about a central striker and yet Klopp still doesn’t play with one - guess why ? That’s not his preferred way to play - he doesn’t want a central striker - that’s why Sturridge was bombed out 



4LEX said:



			Mate it's so frustrating even as a neutral. You've got the best set of Attacking WB's and crossers in the world and nothing in the middle. Even your Plan B is a midget or who someone who can't head. If you signed Dzeko as a super sub he'd still win you 15 points a season.

Mo has always been a scratchy finisher, he's returned to his usual level IMO. Which has exposed the cracks he paperered over. Mane too has gone off the radar totally. I think a good preseason, targetman and you'll be back to 80-90 points. Not sure you'll get Haaland though.
		
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He doesn’t do too bad for a “scratchy finisher” - 123 in 4 seasons for us , I don’t think anyone has scored more in the same period. He is a World Class player and may well end up with his 3rd golden boot in 4 seasons. It will always amazes how little respect he gets.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Mate it's so frustrating even as a neutral. You've got the best set of Attacking WB's and crossers in the world and nothing in the middle. Even your Plan B is a midget or who someone who can't head. If you signed Dzeko as a super sub he'd still win you 15 points a season.

Mo has always been a scratchy finisher, he's returned to his usual level IMO. Which has exposed the cracks he paperered over. Mane too has gone off the radar totally. I think a good preseason, targetman and you'll be back to 80-90 points. Not sure you'll get Haaland though.
		
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I would have got Crouch out of the TV studio.
We have no plan B imo.
I have never been a big Klopp fan and he must see what we see but he’s the manager.
I had my eyes closed for the last 10 mins it’s so predictable.
We can hope on Halland


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s Haaland and he is way out of our price range -

You have said for three years about a central striker and yet Klopp still doesn’t play with one - guess why ? That’s not his preferred way to play - he doesn’t want a central striker - that’s why Sturridge was bombed out



He doesn’t do too bad for a “scratchy finisher” - 123 in 4 seasons for us , I don’t think anyone has scored more in the same period. He is a World Class player and may well end up with his 3rd golden boot in 4 seasons. It will always amazes how little respect he gets.
		
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Yes I am aware he dosnt want one .
But Lord T asked a question about the strikers .
I am just giving my opinion.
As I said “ he’s the manager”
For now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would have got Crouch out of the TV studio.
We have no plan B imo.
*I have never been a big Klopp fan *and he must see what we see but he’s the manager.
I had my eyes closed for the last 10 mins it’s so predictable.
We can hope on Halland 

Click to expand...

Best manager at the club since Kenny resigned -  never heard or seen a Liverpool fan say they aren’t a big fan of him. Have you not seen the last 4/5 years since he arrived . If you aren’t a big fan of him then I’m struggling to see who you would be a big fan off 🤷‍♂️


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## Slime (Apr 24, 2021)

Do you guys think you'd have benefited if you'd got Cavani on a free, rather than United?


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 24, 2021)

I must be missing something but how have they disallowed that Brighton goal for offside? The Brighton player was in an offside position but the ball has hit his team mate and gone backwards, away from the goal. The scorer has then come back and finished it. I thought you couldn't be offside if the ball has been played backwards.

EDIT - none of the commentators have mentioned it so I guess my understanding must be wrong.


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## SaintHacker (Apr 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			red or nothing
		
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So they can upgrade a yellow to a red, but not downgrade a red to a yellow? The mind boggles...🤦‍♂️


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## pendodave (Apr 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			that might just be the worst VAR red card lol
		
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Stiff competition from the Soucek one at Fulham the other week. 
Likely overturned on the Monday (as the Fulham one was), but in the meantime west ham play with 10 men and drop points in the already unequal struggle with the "contrite" big 6...


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Best manager at the club since Kenny resigned -  never heard or seen a Liverpool fan say they aren’t a big fan of him. Have you not seen the last 4/5 years since he arrived . If you aren’t a big fan of him then I’m struggling to see who you would be a big fan off 🤷‍♂️
		
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Well you have now.
What can I say I am not a big fan of his method.
No CF.


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			So they can upgrade a yellow to a red, but not downgrade a red to a yellow? The mind boggles...🤦‍♂️
		
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they can downgrade red to yellow

edit: im not sure anyone knows what they can do these days lol, least of all those reviewing it seems


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do you guys think you'd have benefited if you'd got Cavani on a free, rather than United?
		
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I think any decent CF would score a bag full in this team.
We have three poor finishers who get so many chances and score some good goals it masks the real sitters they miss.
Then we make a mistake and draw.
So yes he would give us something we havnt got


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			they can downgrade red to yellow
		
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Stupid rules .
The ref is in charge and should be able to do what he deemed fit and fair.
The game is much poorer for these stupid rules.


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Stupid rules .
The ref is in charge and should be able to do what he deemed fit and fair.
The game is much poorer for these stupid rules.
		
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i think they were done as they are so that they couldnt review a potential yellow card and thus end up with even more reviews, whats for sure is the current system doesnt work, the way they make decisions doesnt work and no one has any faith in the system at all based on most of the recent decisions, lets hope they make a constructive review in the summer (and throw it out!)


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## 4LEX (Apr 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do you guys think you'd have benefited if you'd got Cavani on a free, rather than United?
		
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No because he's injury prone and a midget. Jota has got more goals despite being out for nearly 4 months.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do you guys think you'd have benefited if you'd got Cavani on a free, rather than United?
		
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No because we bought Jota who I believe has scored more in less games over the season - his injury was a big a miss as VVD


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## 4LEX (Apr 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He doesn’t do too bad for a “scratchy finisher” - 123 in 4 seasons for us , I don’t think anyone has scored more in the same period. He is a World Class player and may well end up with his 3rd golden boot in 4 seasons. It will always amazes how little respect he gets.
		
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He is a scratchy finisher. Not taking anything away from him but he peaked at Liverpool and he's on the slide now. Some of his seasons were astonishing but he coud never keep that level going. Be grateful you got him as at his peak and he won you the CL and PL. Sign a world class CF and you might get a few more years out of him.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well you have now.
What can I say I am not a big fan of his method.
No CF.
		
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With Klopp's nett spend, do you think any manager would have taken us from finishing 8th to league champions and CL winners?


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## Papas1982 (Apr 24, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			With Klopp's nett spend, do you think any manager would have taken us from finishing 8th to league champions and CL winners?
		
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Didnt realise you supported Arsenal Pete 😂😂


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 24, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Didnt realise you supported Arsenal Pete 😂😂
		
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Their's is the inverse of that, from Cl (finalists) down to where they are now.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 25, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			With Klopp's nett spend, do you think any manager would have taken us from finishing 8th to league champions and CL winners?
		
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Probably not !
It’s a personal opinion I just like to see a proper CF giving the CBS a tough game.
 I think with a proper goal scorer we would be right behind City.
How many games have we had like today’s.?
High line ,no pace but still play it. With no pressure on the ball.
Any decent ball over the top and were in trouble.
The strikers are very poor finishers all three of them , but they score worldies now and again.
Mo has scored 20 goals for three seasons but misses so many he should be just behind Shearer in the list.
Klopp done wonders at the club but that dosnt mean I have to like the style of play , I don’t.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 25, 2021)

In the Leeds v Man Utd game VAR checked a possible hand ball against Luke Shaw in his own area and gave nothing. If Utd had broken away up to the other end and scored it would have been disallowed for hitting Shaw's arm. Normally in that situation a free kick would be given for handball. In this instance that would have meant going back and giving a penalty to Leeds despite the fact that VAR had already decided that it wasn't a penalty.


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			In the Leeds v Man Utd game VAR checked a possible hand ball against Luke Shaw in his own area and gave nothing. If Utd had broken away up to the other end and scored it would have been disallowed for hitting Shaw's arm. Normally in that situation a free kick would be given for handball. In this instance that would have meant going back and giving a penalty to Leeds despite the fact that VAR had already decided that it wasn't a penalty.
		
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Handball rule application has changed as the seasons gone on completely, any attempt to keep the arm close to the body now seems to mean its not handball, even if the hand moves to the ball, obviously within the usual inconsistency boundaries lol. Not a chance theyd have ruled a united goal out in that situ


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Handball rule application has changed as the seasons gone on completely, any attempt to keep the arm close to the body now seems to mean its not handball, even if the hand moves to the ball, obviously within the usual inconsistency boundaries lol. Not a chance theyd have ruled a united goal out in that situ 

Click to expand...

Didn't Calum Wilson have a goal ruled out for handball yesterday even though his arm was close to his body? 

Was that just because he was playing against rather than for one of the big 6?


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Didn't Calum Wilson have a goal ruled out for handball yesterday even though his arm was close to his body?

Was that just because he was playing against rather than for one of the big 6? 

Click to expand...


not seen that one, assume it was similar to the Chelsea one first half or Shaws today in all but which team it was for/against


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## BiMGuy (Apr 25, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			In the Leeds v Man Utd game VAR checked a possible hand ball against Luke Shaw in his own area and gave nothing. If Utd had broken away up to the other end and scored it would have been disallowed for hitting Shaw's arm. Normally in that situation a free kick would be given for handball. In this instance that would have meant going back and giving a penalty to Leeds despite the fact that VAR had already decided that it wasn't a penalty.
		
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That was about as blatant a handball as you are likely to see.

The officiating in this game is once again shocking. Fall over and scream when playing in red = free kick.

ManU player kicking the ball away after the whistle has gone = nothing. Bamford = Yellow.

Not sure I can be bothered watching much more Premier League. I'll stick to my under 11s, and 12s and Sunday League up the rec.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 25, 2021)

Thankyou Leeds.


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## Orikoru (Apr 25, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Thankyou Leeds.
		
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Surely you weren't worried about United catching you?


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## IanM (Apr 25, 2021)

I think Spurs should have brought their own ball !


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## Orikoru (Apr 25, 2021)

IanM said:



			I think Spurs should have brought their own ball !
		
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It's not a fun watch, but I knew it wouldn't be.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 25, 2021)

Happy to not be able to hear the screeching of Kane there when he did the full dive
8.5 for that one


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## Jensen (Apr 25, 2021)

It’s all one way traffic 😮


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## IanM (Apr 25, 2021)

Sitting watching with Spurs Season Ticket holding sister.   She's looking a bit pale


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Didn't Calum Wilson have a goal ruled out for handball yesterday even though his arm was close to his body?

Was that just because he was playing against rather than for one of the big 6? 

Click to expand...

A goal is ruled out for handball if it hits the arm of the attacker that results in a goal, even if accidental, if he hadn’t of scored and a Lpool player had put it out for a corner, VAR would not of reviewed it!!

Reasons like above is why VAR is getting so much ridicule.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Surely you weren't worried about United catching you? 

Click to expand...

City are a bit hit and miss at the moment. First 45 mins showed that. Also showed why Sterling won’t be playing v PSG midweek.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A goal is ruled out for handball if it hits the arm of the attacker that results in a goal, even if accidental, if he hadn’t of scored and a Lpool player had put it out for a corner, VAR would not of reviewed it!!

Reasons like above is why VAR is getting so much ridicule.
		
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And next season if Callum Wilson does the same thing the goal will still be disallowed; but if he handled it in the same manner but Joelinton tucked it in, the goal will stand.  Go figure.  And how, in reviewing it, VAR did not see the push on Wilson as he shot I will never know.

Not only is it broken, it appears beyond repair.


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

stop putting the ball out when its not a head injury, especially when its clearly a dive too


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And next season if Callum Wilson does the same thing the goal will still be disallowed; but if he handled it in the same manner but Joelinton tucked it in, the goal will stand.  Go figure.  And how, in reviewing it, VAR did not see the push on Wilson as he shot I will never know.

Not only is it broken, it appears beyond repair.
		
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Bit broken record but genuinely think its needed for them to start to explain the decisions they are making after the match, put it down in black and white and then the utter inconsistencies of the decisions will be even clearer for all to see!


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## Orikoru (Apr 25, 2021)

At least we managed to play a bit in the second half, it hasn't been as horrible as the first was. Laporte should have been off in the first half which rankles a bit of course.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 25, 2021)

Serious question for the Spurs fans.

The two subs that Spurs brought on Bale and Alli. Is there honestly no place for them in the starting 11. Son, Kane, bale and Alli is a serious threat.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			At least we managed to play a bit in the second half, it hasn't been as horrible as the first was. Laporte should have been off in the first half which rankles a bit of course.
		
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I thought his tackles were as bad as ? Regulion. Could of been 10 v 10.


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## Orikoru (Apr 25, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Serious question for the Spurs fans.

The two subs that Spurs brought on Bale and Alli. Is there honestly no place for them in the starting 11. Son, Kane, bale and Alli is a serious threat.
		
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Did Bale even touch the ball after coming on? Lucas Moura has been one of our best players over the last month. He caused your lot problems to the point you just hacked him down and took a yellow card every time.


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## AmandaJR (Apr 25, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I thought his tackles were as bad as ? Regulion. Could of been 10 v 10.
		
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He hacked Foden down early doors and wasn't booked. Later booked for a similar foul on (I think) Mahrez. So yes 100% the same. I even think the ref pointed that out when Spurs players were asking for a booking for Laporte's first foul.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Bit broken record but genuinely think its needed for them to start to explain the decisions they are making after the match, put it down in black and white and then the utter inconsistencies of the decisions will be even clearer for all to see!
		
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Maybe if the fans keep on about it they might listen; worked for ESL...


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## PieMan (Apr 25, 2021)

Typical that a player who scores the winner shouldn't have been on the pitch! 

I would feel sorry for Spurs if I didn't dislike them so much.......!!😉 😂


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

All the Chelsea fans coming out today  Well almost all


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## Jensen (Apr 25, 2021)

Surprisingly it was only 1-0 given it was all one way traffic. Not surprisingly Aurier gave away the foul that led to the goal. That said there was only one team, who would’ve won regardless.
Congratulations City 👍


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## Captainron (Apr 25, 2021)

Jensen said:



			there was only one team, who would’ve won regardless.
Congratulations City 👍
		
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You could have written that after the semi finals....


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## Tashyboy (Apr 25, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			He hacked Foden down early doors and wasn't booked. Later booked for a similar foul on (I think) Mahrez. So yes 100% the same. I even think the ref pointed that out when Spurs players were asking for a booking for Laporte's first foul.
		
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This, 👍 but the second tackle was on De Bryune. If we’re talking about Laporte being sent off, then so should Regulion. But it’s all ifs and buts. Shall we play the point the finger game. If the ref had booked regulion for his first hack down, then he has to book Laporte. But he didn’t. So the ref is consistent. Is that not what we want. What I found amusing was when Foden was hacked down. He took it on the chin. When Laporte brought down the Spurs lad the Spurs players surrounded the ref. That did not help.
If the ref had booked Regulion twice and sent him off Laporte is not in that position for a second offence As the game has changed.
its no use talking about ifs.
For me I would be a disappointed Spurs fan for that performance in the same sense City were rammel in there only previous semi final in the champs league v Real Madrid.


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## PieMan (Apr 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			All the Chelsea fans coming out today  Well almost all 

Click to expand...

Beating Man City at Wembley isn't for everyone........😉😂😂😂


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 25, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Didn't Calum Wilson have a goal ruled out for handball yesterday even though his arm was close to his body?

Was that just because he was playing against rather than for one of the big 6? 

Click to expand...

No, but if you took the trouble to learn the rules that have been in place for the last 2 years, you would know.HTH


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A goal is ruled out for handball if it hits the arm of the attacker that results in a goal, even if accidental, if he hadn’t of scored and a Lpool player had put it out for a corner, VAR would not of reviewed it!!

Reasons like above is why VAR is getting so much ridicule.
		
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If he had not scored and gone down instead VAR would have given a pen for the push by TAA.
You just don’t know what your going to get with VAR.
The opposite of what it was brought in for , consistent decisions.


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If he had not scored and gone down instead VAR would have given a pen for the push by TAA.
You just don’t know what your going to get with VAR.
The opposite of what it was brought in for , consistent decisions.
		
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Getting to the point where it seems the refs have a decent side bet on who can give the most ridiculous VAR decision. Surely Dean wins in the end mind.....


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Getting to the point where it seems the refs have a decent side bet on who can give the most ridiculous VAR decision. Surely Dean wins in the end mind.....
		
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Moss in the Everton Arsenal game.
Offside bailed him out.
Should have a bad decision of the month and year.
But who decides to settle the bet.???


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Moss in the Everton Arsenal game.
Offside bailed him out.
Should have a bad decision of the month and year.
*But who decides to settle the bet*.???
		
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Mike Dean obviously


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Mike Dean obviously 

Click to expand...

I will have a tenner on Dean then


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 25, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Moss in the Everton Arsenal game.
Offside bailed him out.
Should have a bad decision of the month and year.
But who decides to settle the bet.???
		
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fundy said:



			Mike Dean obviously 

Click to expand...

No, it'll go to VAR...


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			No, it'll go to VAR... 

Click to expand...


and who decides that, yup you guessed it


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			and who decides that, yup you guessed it 

Click to expand...

Starting to sound like we don’t want VAR.
I was all for it I must admit.
But think Stockley Park is in a monkey enclosure somewhere.
I have now changed my mind ,I don’t think the refs we have are good enough to handle it.


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Starting to sound like we don’t want VAR.
I was all for it I must admit.
But think Stockley Park is in a monkey enclosure somewhere.
I have now changed my mind ,I don’t think the refs we have are good enough to handle it.
		
Click to expand...


VAR as a concept is fine for the tv watching fan if it is properly administrated, im not sure it will ever be acceptable to a game going fan. As a bare minimum it needs a complete overhaul (and needs to take into account the game going fan more), it would definitely be far easier just to get rid though (sadly not gonna happen)


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## Old Skier (Apr 25, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Starting to sound like we don’t want VAR.
I was all for it I must admit.
But think Stockley Park is in a monkey enclosure somewhere.
I have now changed my mind ,I don’t think the refs we have are good enough to handle it.
		
Click to expand...

Always said, the more officials involved the worse the outcome. If three men can’t run a game of football somethings wrong with the game.


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

Get the feeling there will be far more prem clubs trying to shop at West Brom in the summer than there will be Sheff Utd or Fulham


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			VAR as a concept is fine for the tv watching fan if it is properly administrated, im not sure it will ever be acceptable to a game going fan. As a bare minimum it needs a complete overhaul (and needs to take into account the game going fan more), it would definitely be far easier just to get rid though (sadly not gonna happen)
		
Click to expand...

If VAR was sorted and worked, I don’t think the category of fan would matter, unfortunately I think it’s here to stay and will be tinkered with for years to come.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 25, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Starting to sound like we don’t want VAR.
*I was all for it I must admit.*
But think Stockley Park is in a monkey enclosure somewhere.
I have now changed my mind ,I don’t think the refs we have are good enough to handle it.
		
Click to expand...

You weren't alone. 

The worst of it will be having to admit to Stu_C that he was right...


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			You weren't alone. 

The worst of it will be having to admit to Stu_C that he was right... 

Click to expand...


If ever theres a time to go full on Phil this might be it


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## USER1999 (Apr 25, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			You weren't alone. 

The worst of it will be having to admit to Stu_C that he was right... 

Click to expand...

Luckily he will never know, as he isn't on here anymore.


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## Billysboots (Apr 25, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Starting to sound like we don’t want VAR.
I was all for it I must admit.
But think Stockley Park is in a monkey enclosure somewhere.
I have now changed my mind ,I don’t think the refs we have are good enough to handle it.
		
Click to expand...

A number of our referees aren’t good enough, absolutely agree.

I missed the debate here yesterday regarding the ludicrous sending off at West Ham. But it comes as no surprise that the referee involved was Chris Kavanagh, the same referee who disallowed United’s goal at Spurs a couple of weeks ago after McTominay had brushed Son’s face with his hand. 

The alarming aspect of both decisions is that they were made even with the benefit of multiple replays pitchside. The pundits were in universal agreement on both occasions in that Kavanagh had made embarrassing blunders. 

It won’t stop him officiating next weekend though.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			A number of our referees aren’t good enough, absolutely agree.

I missed the debate here yesterday regarding the ludicrous sending off at West Ham. But it comes as no surprise that the referee involved was Chris Kavanagh, the same referee who disallowed United’s goal at Spurs a couple of weeks ago after McTominay had brushed Son’s face with his hand.

The alarming aspect of both decisions is that they were made even with the benefit of multiple replays pitchside. The pundits were in universal agreement on both occasions in that Kavanagh had made embarrassing blunders.

It won’t stop him officiating next weekend though.
		
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Thay should be made to have press conferences .
It’s ultimately the fans that pay their wages.

One in the Burnley  Wolves game ,straight arm open palm right in his throat .
VAR looked = yellow he should have been off
No consistent decisions.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thay should be made to have press conferences .
It’s ultimately the fans that pay their wages.

One in the Burnley  Wolves game ,straight arm open palm right in his throat .
VAR looked = yellow he should have been off
No consistent decisions.
		
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I'd mic them up

Like rugby 

And let them explain their decisions 

So take the west ham game could hear the Convo in his ear then he goes over to the captain and examples right it's red because of X y and z 

Least we then might understand what's going through their heads!


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## Piece (Apr 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thay should be made to have press conferences .
It’s ultimately the fans that pay their wages.

One in the Burnley  Wolves game ,straight arm open palm right in his throat .
VAR looked = yellow he should have been off
No consistent decisions.
		
Click to expand...

However much we want it, you will never ever get consistent decisions in sports that involve the subjective opinion of an official. Its like asking all fans to agree on all decisions! Just won't happen 😁

Some degree of miking-up could work, a brief explanation of decisions, NFL style. Post match ref interviews on occasions may add value, but you can see that this post match ref interview would soon become repetitive and continually negative.

I'm sure there is room on Sky and BT football coverage to run a series of ref decisions workshops to show what the rules and ref interpretations should be. It could help some pundits and fans understand the rules better. 😁


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## Captainron (Apr 26, 2021)

No reason why the referees can’t be mic’ed up. They already have the earpieces so simple enough to add it on.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 26, 2021)

Piece said:



			However much we want it, you will never ever get consistent decisions in sports that involve the subjective opinion of an official. Its like asking all fans to agree on all decisions! Just won't happen 😁

Some degree of miking-up could work, a brief explanation of decisions, NFL style. Post match ref interviews on occasions may add value, but you can see that this post match ref interview would soon become repetitive and continually negative.

I'm sure there is room on Sky and BT football coverage to run a series of ref decisions workshops to show what the rules and ref interpretations should be. It could help some pundits and fans understand the rules better. 😁
		
Click to expand...

Don't bt bring in Peter Walton to explain the decision the Ref has made and why he might have come to that decision?


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## Orikoru (Apr 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't bt bring in Peter Walton to explain the decision the Ref has made and why he might have come to that decision?
		
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Don't start on that idiot. What a waste of space he is.


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## Slime (Apr 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd mic them up, like rugby and let them explain their decisions
So take the west ham game, could hear the convo in his ear, then he goes over to the captain and explains that it's red because of x, y and z.
At least we then might then understand what's going through their heads!
		
Click to expand...


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## Billysboots (Apr 26, 2021)

Piece said:



			However much we want it, you will never ever get consistent decisions in sports that involve the subjective opinion of an official. Its like asking all fans to agree on all decisions! Just won't happen 😁
		
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree, but there still needs to be some remedial action taken when decisions are shown to be spectacularly wrong.

I watched a re-run of the West Ham game knowing there had been a controversial red card, but no more than that. The second I saw the incident and realised what was coming my immediate reaction was “Please tell me he’s not going to send him off for kicking the ball.” They were my exact words.

There have been some poor decisions this season. I think Mike Dean saw two red card decisions, made after he had reviewed incidents pitch side, overturned earlier this year in as many weeks. Both really bad decisions. But Chris Kavanagh’s decision on Saturday was beyond woeful. It was shockingly bad. The only ones I have heard speak in favour are either those relying on seeing a still image or those who, from the language and terminology used, seem to know little about football. I have seen some frankly ludicrous arguments raised in order to justify the red.

Chris Kavanagh is not a good referee. He has demonstrated more than once this season that he does not understand the _feel _of the game. He appears to consider incidents out of context and his decisions have been roundly criticised by people far more knowledgeable than any of us here. And yet he comes back week after week and makes similar mistakes.

We all called last year for the on-pitch referee to be allowed to review incidents on pitch side monitors, to take key decisions away from the VAR. By allowing this, it was argued, the officiating referee would be allowed to consider his decision in the context of the game he was refereeing. If anything this has made things even worse.

I accept we will never get the absolute consistency we crave. But if referees continue to make monumental blunders even after reviewing incidents on monitors then some action needs taking to prevent the same officials becoming repeat offenders.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 26, 2021)

What if the officials we have are the best that are out there? There is a pathway through the league system so presumably these guys are the best there are right now.

Has there ever been a period, since the inception of more than 2 cameras in a ground, where people thought that refs were good?


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## Billysboots (Apr 26, 2021)

I get that referees will make mistakes. It’s part and parcel of the game. But to see some of the howlers still being made after incidents have been watched half a dozen times is really worrying.

There can only be two explanations. Poor refereeing or nobody, including pundits and commentators, have been made aware of rule changes or interpretations.

Either way it needs sorting. I like the suggestion of refs being wired for sound.


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## Orikoru (Apr 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What if the officials we have are the best that are out there? There is a pathway through the league system so presumably these guys are the best there are right now.

Has there ever been a period, since the inception of more than 2 cameras in a ground, where people thought that refs were good?
		
Click to expand...

Normally there seems to be one or two refs you'd say were good, and the rest just, erm, do their best I suppose.

One problem (of many) with VAR is that every foul looks worse in slow motion. Perhaps it would be beneficial to only let the ref watch it at real time speed. I doubt the West Ham one would have ended up as a red if they hadn't have slowed it down so much - it makes it look as if he had time to plant his foot elsewhere when he clearly didn't.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 26, 2021)

In football there does seem a reluctance to accept that a ref will make a mistake in real time that other sports aceept as part and parcel of the game, they are human after all. Some of the decisions with VAR seem very odd as at that point the ref gets another chance in slow motion and from 20 angles. No excuse then. That is where hearing them speak in real time, as per cricket and rugby would be so beneficial as at least we could then understand the train of thought, and also perhaps learn some rules that we were not clear on. I hope at some point they will allow fans to hear the discussions between VAR and the onfield ref, it can only help.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 26, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I absolutely agree, but there still needs to be some remedial action taken when decisions are shown to be spectacularly wrong.

I watched a re-run of the West Ham game knowing there had been a controversial red card, but no more than that. The second I saw the incident and realised what was coming my immediate reaction was “Please tell me he’s not going to send him off for kicking the ball.” They were my exact words.

There have been some poor decisions this season. I think Mike Dean saw two red card decisions, made after he had reviewed incidents pitch side, overturned earlier this year in as many weeks. Both really bad decisions. *But Chris Kavanagh’s decision on Saturday was beyond woeful. *It was shockingly bad. The only ones I have heard speak in favour are either those relying on seeing a still image or those who, from the language and terminology used, seem to know little about football. I have seen some frankly ludicrous arguments raised in order to justify the red.

Chris Kavanagh is not a good referee. He has demonstrated more than once this season that he does not understand the _feel _of the game. He appears to consider incidents out of context and his decisions have been roundly criticised by people far more knowledgeable than any of us here. And yet he comes back week after week and makes similar mistakes.

We all called last year for the on-pitch referee to be allowed to review incidents on pitch side monitors, to take key decisions away from the VAR. By allowing this, it was argued, the officiating referee would be allowed to consider his decision in the context of the game he was refereeing. If anything this has made things even worse.

I accept we will never get the absolute consistency we crave. But if referees continue to make monumental blunders even after reviewing incidents on monitors then some action needs taking to prevent the same officials becoming repeat offenders.
		
Click to expand...

But it wasn't't just Chris Kavanagh's decision, was it?  Chris Kavanagh's decision was, if I remember correctly, to allow play to go on without even awarding a foul.  That was until the VAR, who I believe was Michael Oliver & whom I think would be deemed a better referee than Kavanagh by the majority, interfered and persuaded/undermined Kavanagh sufficiently that he went to the screen & subsequently changed his decision.

As far as the red itself went I'd like to see what the referee's report says it was given for.  I have no problem with the way the collision came about, but I'd agree with those that say Balbuena left more on Chilwell than was entirely necessary and that's what got him the card.  And one of those was a former player who said he'd done the same in the past.


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## Billysboots (Apr 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			But it wasn't't just Chris Kavanagh's decision, was it?  Chris Kavanagh's decision was, if I remember correctly, to allow play to go on without even awarding a foul.  That was until the VAR, who I believe was Michael Oliver & whom I think would be deemed a better referee than Kavanagh by the majority, interfered and persuaded/undermined Kavanagh sufficiently that he went to the screen & subsequently changed his decision.

As far as the red itself went I'd like to see what the referee's report says it was given for.  I have no problem with the way the collision came about, but I'd agree with those that say Balbuena left more on Chilwell than was entirely necessary and that's what got him the card.  And one of those was a former player who said he'd done the same in the past. 

Click to expand...

But the final decision was Kavanagh’s.

Once I can perhaps forgive. But following so close after his decision to award a foul against Scott McTominay for failing to run with his arms in a straight jacket would tend to suggest Kavanagh thinks he’s refereeing a non-contact sport 😉


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## Orikoru (Apr 26, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			But the final decision was Kavanagh’s.

Once I can perhaps forgive. But following so close after his decision to award a foul against Scott McTominay for failing to run with his arms in a straight jacket would tend to suggest Kavanagh thinks he’s refereeing a non-contact sport 😉
		
Click to expand...

Get over it, he caught Son in the face, it's a foul anywhere on the pitch. It doesn't cease to be a foul just because they scored a minute later and that somehow makes it unfair.


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## Billysboots (Apr 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Get over it, he caught Son in the face, it's a foul anywhere on the pitch. It doesn't cease to be a foul just because they scored a minute later and that somehow makes it unfair. 

Click to expand...

You’ll say it’s a foul because you’re a Spurs fan, I’ll say it’s not because I support United! So neither of us can really be that impartial.

But every pundit I heard, and match report I read, were universal in that, if that was a foul, we should all pack up and go home.

Still, at least it didn’t effect the outcome 😉😇


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## Orikoru (Apr 26, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			You’ll say it’s a foul because you’re a Spurs fan, I’ll say it’s not because I support United! So neither of us can really be that impartial.

But every pundit I heard, and match report I read, were universal in that, if that was a foul, we should all pack up and go home.

Still, at least it didn’t effect the outcome 😉😇
		
Click to expand...

I say it was a foul because it was a foul, he hit a man in the face.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 26, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			But the final decision was Kavanagh’s.

Once I can perhaps forgive. But following so close after his decision to award a foul against Scott McTominay for failing to run with his arms in a straight jacket would tend to suggest Kavanagh thinks he’s refereeing a non-contact sport 😉
		
Click to expand...

And his decision was no foul until a senior referee intervened.  I get your point but I'm not without some sympathy for Kavanagh in the circumstances.


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## Orikoru (Apr 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And his decision was no foul until a senior referee intervened.  I get your point but I'm not without some sympathy for Kavanagh in the circumstances.
		
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Yeah, I think the point stands that no foul would have been awarded without VAR. And once VAR tells them to look at it, the refs feel under pressure to change their decision, as they believe that's why they've been told to look.


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## Billysboots (Apr 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I think the point stands that no foul would have been awarded without VAR. And once VAR tells them to look at it, the refs feel under pressure to change their decision, as they believe that's why they've been told to look.
		
Click to expand...

I understand the thinking, but if any referee lacks the testicular fortitude to have a mind of their own, they should not be refereeing Sunday League football, never mind Premier League.

There are two issues in play here - VAR and the standard of refereeing. One needs sacking off entirely, the other a considerable amount of work.


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## Orikoru (Apr 26, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I understand the thinking, but if any referee lacks the testicular fortitude to have a mind of their own, they should not be refereeing Sunday League football, never mind Premier League.

There are two issues in play here - VAR and the standard of refereeing. One needs sacking off entirely, the other a considerable amount of work.
		
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Just another reason I believe there shouldn't be a Stockley Park team or whatever - it should be that if the ref wants to review something, he is able to. Not somebody telling him to. Because currently they are not reffing the games.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 26, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I understand the thinking, but if any referee lacks the testicular fortitude to have a mind of their own, they should not be refereeing Sunday League football, never mind Premier League.

*There are two issues in play here* - VAR and the standard of refereeing. One needs sacking off entirely, the other a considerable amount of work.
		
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There are 3 issues in play here; the third being the amount of simulation cheating that the modern players bring into the game.  We complain about the referees but how much can we really expect them to get right when the players go out of their way to have them over?

Edit: make that four; add the pundits defending the cheats with their "right to go down" mantra.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			There are 3 issues in play here; the third being the amount of simulation cheating that the modern players bring into the game.  We complain about the referees but how much can we really expect them to get right when the players go out of their way to have them over?

Edit: make that four; add the pundits defending the cheats with their "right to go down" mantra.
		
Click to expand...

Self-imposed exile suits you so well.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 26, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Self-imposed exile suits you so well. 

Click to expand...

I was told you missed me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Just another reason I believe there shouldn't be a Stockley Park team or whatever - it should be that if the ref wants to review something, he is able to. Not somebody telling him to. Because currently they are not reffing the games.
		
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That makes no sense having no VAR Official, either bin it altogether or have an official, let’s remember they have got some decisions correct the Ref has missed and you’ve agreed with. Can’t have it both ways.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 26, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56884994

Two things for me 

1. Why do we feel the need to follow each Americanism ? Hall of Fame ?! 

But 2. We already have a football hall of fame which covers all football in England - why the need for a second one


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## Billysboots (Apr 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			There are 3 issues in play here; the third being the amount of simulation cheating that the modern players bring into the game.  We complain about the referees but how much can we really expect them to get right when the players go out of their way to have them over?

Edit: make that four; add the pundits defending the cheats with their "right to go down" mantra.
		
Click to expand...

Oh, don’t even get me started on the conduct of the players. Seeing them dive is bad enough. The rolling around is pathetic. But the screams, which of course we can now all hear in empty grounds? Embarrassing. There’s no other word for it.

And certain United players need to take a look at themselves in this regard, most notably Marcus Rashford and Bruno Fernandes. As a lifelong United fan I’ll never defend their play acting.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I was told you missed me. 

Click to expand...

Certainly do mate, need to share the banging heads against a brick wall duties about.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 26, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Oh, don’t even get me started on the conduct of the players. Seeing them dive is bad enough. The rolling around is pathetic. But the screams, which of course we can now all hear in empty grounds? Embarrassing. There’s no other word for it.

And certain United players need to take a look at themselves in this regard, most notably Marcus Rashford and Bruno Fernandes. As a lifelong United fan I’ll never defend their play acting.
		
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Watching gymnastics yesterday, a woman on the bars smashed her face body legs the lot on the deck. It’s a wonder she never knocked herself out. She brushed herself off and carried on. If that was some footballers, the squealing and rolling about would of been disgusting. Even yesterday in the carabao final one of the Spurs players went down screaming in agony. 10 seconds after realising he is getting nowt he is sprinting back and there were a few others from both sides. It’s shocking to see.


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2021)

Some goal from Ian Nacho that to win tonight, looking more and more like 4 sides (and Spurs) for one place in 4th


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## Orikoru (Apr 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			That makes no sense having no VAR Official, either bin it altogether or have an official, let’s remember they have got some decisions correct the Ref has missed and you’ve agreed with. Can’t have it both ways.

Click to expand...

Happy to compromise on that. I want to get back to referees refereeing games, just having a little bit of help if they need it - and if they decide they need it and actually ask for it. Not someone in a studio miles away telling them what to do each step of the way.


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## SteveW86 (Apr 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Some goal from Ian Nacho that to win tonight, looking more and more like 4 sides (and Spurs) for one place in 4th
		
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What a quality bit of auto correct


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			What a quality bit of auto correct
		
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or bad slang having Leicester fans as mates on social media lol


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Happy to compromise on that. I want to get back to referees refereeing games, just having a little bit of help if they need it - and if they decide they need it and actually ask for it. Not someone in a studio miles away telling them what to do each step of the way.
		
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Sadly we are stuck with it imo, but totally agree they need to sort out how it’s used by the Officials.


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## GG26 (Apr 26, 2021)

We call him Nacho man.  I think he’s won man of the match every time we’ve won for the past couple of months and great to see him making the most of the opportunity now that we’re playing two up top.  Also pleased to be proved wrong - I’ll hold my hand up and confess I wanted us to get rid of him.  What a great finish this evening.  I think that we need 4 to 6 points for top four now in the remaining 5 matches.


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## Orikoru (Apr 27, 2021)

GG26 said:



			We call him Nacho man.  I think he’s won man of the match every time we’ve won for the past couple of months and great to see him making the most of the opportunity now that we’re playing two up top.  Also pleased to be proved wrong - I’ll hold my hand up and confess I wanted us to get rid of him.  What a great finish this evening.  I think that we need 4 to 6 points for top four now in the remaining 5 matches.
		
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To be fair he looked this good when he came through at City and I was surprised they let him go at the time - he was usurped by Gabriel Jesus despite looking like a better finisher. Then he took a while to settle and get a run of games, but he looks class again now he's had that.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 27, 2021)

So. Red card overturned (again)

That's at least 3 reds where the ref has sent off after a second look pitch side been overturned 

What's the point of a second look if you get it wrong?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 27, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387033923679621120
If we get 3 more 

Doesn't that seal TAA, lingard places in the squad?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 27, 2021)

Werners finishing is as bad as ours.
Nice goal that’s how you finish.


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## Fade and Die (Apr 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So. Red card overturned (again)

That's at least 3 reds where the ref has sent off after a second look pitch side been overturned

What's the point of a second look if you get it wrong?
		
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But Andy Townsend and Jason Cundy were adamant it was a straight red! 🤪


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## Billysboots (Apr 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So. Red card overturned (again)

That's at least 3 reds where the ref has sent off after a second look pitch side been overturned

What's the point of a second look if you get it wrong?
		
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Surely there has to be some sanction against Chris Kavanagh. If he has reviewed the incident on a monitor and deemed it a red, and others have reviewed it on a monitor and said it’s not, then it must follow that those overturning the decision have decided Kavanagh has made a significant error.

At the very least he should be given the next round of matches off. Such blatant errors cannot go unpunished.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Surely there has to be some sanction against Chris Kavanagh. If he has reviewed the incident on a monitor and deemed it a red, and others have reviewed it on a monitor and said it’s not, then it must follow that those overturning the decision have decided Kavanagh has made a significant error.

At the very least he should be given the next round of matches off. Such blatant errors cannot go unpunished.
		
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Nothing was done to Dean

He has had at least 2 overturned

2 in 2 weeks infact

But also the var official.. they need something done aswell as that shouldn't even be a look at again


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 27, 2021)

Great result for Chelsea, hopefully complete the job at Stamford Bridge.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Great result for Chelsea, hopefully complete the job at Stamford Bridge.

Click to expand...

Yes kept them very quiet.
Thought the ref was good .
Couple of fouls that would have been given in the PL just play on.
Did stop the players going down easy.


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## Billysboots (Apr 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Nothing was done to Dean

He has had at least 2 overturned

2 in 2 weeks infact
		
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I know. Poor performance isn’t tolerated in other professions. Repeated poor performance certainly shouldn’t be. And Dean is another poor referee. There’s plenty out there.


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## davemc1 (Apr 28, 2021)

Quality game this. Neymar regardless of his faults is a brilliant footballer, I don’t think I’ve seen quicker feet in tight areas.


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## fundy (Apr 28, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Quality game this. Neymar regardless of his faults is a brilliant footballer, I don’t think I’ve seen quicker feet in tight areas.
		
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neymar and psg been excellent, city not looked this ordinary in a big game for a while, but how many times do we expect Neymar to die in the 2nd half, been 3 in the first half and will be more in the 2nd half especially while theyre winning

amazed no Fernandinho for city


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 28, 2021)

PSG implouding.


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## fundy (Apr 28, 2021)

PSG lost the plot completely 2nd half

horror challenge that


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			PSG imploding. 

Click to expand...


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 28, 2021)

Oooh this is an interesting game now


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## fundy (Apr 28, 2021)

At least Pochettino should be used to his side losing the plot.......


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 28, 2021)

Only following it on BBC Sport website as don't have BT Sport but massive opportunity for Man City to go for it now and score at least another 1 or maybe even two to hopefully put the game to bed tonight.


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## davemc1 (Apr 28, 2021)

Fair play to Pep for turning this around, City all over them. They really should shut this tie down 

Poch on the other has still got that spursy thing running through his veins 

Looks like this’ll be the last CL game I watch this season 😆


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## BiMGuy (Apr 28, 2021)

Don't know what I'm enjoying more. The Man City performance in the second half or the PSG implosion.


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## fundy (Apr 28, 2021)

Real game of 2 halves, both English clubs fav to make the final now for sure but both ties still alive too


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 28, 2021)

Great game, great result for City, hopefully they’ll complete the job next week.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 28, 2021)

Well done to City.
Game of two halves.
Shocking tackle that ,he should get a very long ban.


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2021)

Do most non Chelsea/City fans want one of them to win the Champions League just because they're English?
If so, why?
Never have done and probably never will.


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## pendodave (Apr 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do most non Chelsea/City fans want one of them to win the Champions League just because they're English?
If so, why?
Never have done and probably never will.
		
Click to expand...

 Given that the alternatives are psg and real,  I'll take the English clubs. If it was (say) Dortmund or Ajax, then not so much.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do most non Chelsea/City fans want one of them to win the Champions League just because they're English?
If so, why?
Never have done and probably never will.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t understand supporting another English team whilst in Europe - strange concept, I wouldn’t expect or see a Man Utd or Chelsea fan to support Liverpool in Europe if their respective teams went out 

Once we are out then I might watch the final

If I had to choose which I would prefer to win then it would prob be Chelsea 

But null and void the CL would get my vote 😁 . Certainly don’t want PSG or City to win.


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## Orikoru (Apr 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do most non Chelsea/City fans want one of them to win the Champions League just because they're English?
If so, why?
Never have done and probably never will.
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't support Chelsea but I'd be happy to see City win it, I don't have a problem with them.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2021)

I had the horrible invidious position of wanting PSG to win out of the 4 of them, its more a case of who I want to win it the least, rather than wanting any of them to win it.

Least  - City - oil billionaire plaything, and another English team that would have won it.
2nd least - Chelsea - as above, but they would then be able to gloat over Villa fans., but still not Forest fans 
3rd least - Madrid - in real terms backed by Spanish government/local council, and would have gone even further away from us in terms of wins. They also get away with murder with refs in Spain, and sometimes Europe also.
4th least - as per 1 and 2, but THE biggest load of whinging, crying, screaming footballers anywhere, who are first in the refs face when you do a tackle on them.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I had the horrible invidious position of wanting PSG to win out of the 4 of them, its more a case of who I want to win it the least, rather than wanting any of them to win it.

Least  - City - oil billionaire plaything, and another English team that would have won it.
2nd least - Chelsea - as above, but they would then be able to gloat over Villa fans., but still not Forest fans 
3rd least - Madrid - in real terms backed by Spanish government/local council, and would have gone even further away from us in terms of wins. They also get away with murder with refs in Spain, and sometimes Europe also.
4th least - as per 1 and 2, but THE biggest load of whinging, crying, screaming footballers anywhere, who are first in the refs face when you do a tackle on them.
		
Click to expand...

I want city to win so pep will then leave

Don't think my fantasy football can take another year of pep random rotation


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do most non Chelsea/City fans want one of them to win the Champions League just because they're English?
If so, why?
Never have done and probably never will.
		
Click to expand...

Least - Real are just horrible, I don't want them any where near the final
3rd Chelsea, no thanks. I can still see John Terry there 
2nd PSG, take out Neymar and they don't offend me at all. Good to see an alternative to the regulars
1st, City. Quite happy for City to win. Growing up in the NW I know the pain the fans have gone through. They still have their sense of doom and expectation it will end tomorrow, it is endearing . They also play fabulous football and the improvements the owners have done in the area can only be admired.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do most non Chelsea/City fans want one of them to win the Champions League just because they're English?
If so, why?
Never have done and probably never will.
		
Click to expand...

I can’t understand anyone wanting a foreign team to beat an English side, we see in every sport how other nationalities take delight in beating “the English” 

If you’re in direct competition, ie, still in the comp, then yes it’s fully understandible, but some of the reasons they don’t want English teams to do well are petty and childish.

Finally, got family, very good friends and decent people on here who support other teams, why wouldn’t I want them to see them happy?

Hopefully see a Utd/Arsenal EL Final as well.

If it is all English finals, that’s enough for me and don’t care who wins on the night.


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## Beezerk (Apr 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I can’t understand anyone wanting a foreign team to beat an English side, we see in every sport how other nationalities take delight in beating “the English”

If you’re in direct competition, ie, still in the comp, then yes it’s fully understandible, but some of the reasons they don’t want English teams to do well are petty and childish.

Finally, got family, very good friends and decent people on here who support other teams, why wouldn’t I want them to see them happy?

Hopefully see a Utd/Arsenal EL Final as well.

If it is all English finals, that’s enough for me and don’t care who wins on the night.
		
Click to expand...


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## Orikoru (Apr 29, 2021)

I think supporting English sides because they're English has died out, because they're not actually English anymore are they, really? City actually have more English first teamers than is typical nowadays, in Stones, Walker, Sterling and Foden I guess. But Chelsea only have 2 or 3, Liverpool again 2 or 3, Arsenal even less than that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I had the horrible invidious position of wanting PSG to win out of the 4 of them, its more a case of who I want to win it the least, rather than wanting any of them to win it.

Least  - City - oil billionaire plaything, and another English team that would have won it.
2nd least - Chelsea - as above, but they would then be able to gloat over Villa fans., but still not Forest fans 
3rd least - Madrid - in real terms backed by Spanish government/local council, and would have gone even further away from us in terms of wins. They also get away with murder with refs in Spain, and sometimes Europe also.
4th least - as per 1 and 2, but THE biggest load of whinging, crying, screaming footballers anywhere, who are first in the refs face when you do a tackle on them.
		
Click to expand...

Sums it up - I guess it also comes down to who you support as well - these teams are the main competition and we have faced them both in Europe and the Prem regularly- winning some and losing some so that rivalry grows as the main rivals so I don’t think any fan from those top teams will want to see any of the others win any big comps 

If you are fan of the clubs who don’t compete against those sides in Europe as well as Prem and don’t have the direct competition for the title or CL then you may not get that rivalry


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think supporting English sides because they're English has died out, because they're not actually English anymore are they, really? City actually have more English first teamers than is typical nowadays, in Stones, Walker, Sterling and Foden I guess. But Chelsea only have 2 or 3, Liverpool again 2 or 3, Arsenal even less than that.
		
Click to expand...

English Club.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sums it up - I guess it also comes down to who you support as well - these teams are the main competition and we have faced them both in Europe and the Prem regularly- winning some and losing some so that rivalry grows as the main rivals so I don’t think any fan from those top teams will want to see any of the others win any big comps

If you are fan of the clubs who don’t compete against those sides in Europe as well as Prem and don’t have the direct competition for the title or CL then you may not get that rivalry
		
Click to expand...

🎣


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do most non Chelsea/City fans want one of them to win the Champions League just because they're English?
If so, why?
Never have done and probably never will.
		
Click to expand...

Not really ! but I have to say they were the better teams in the first legs.
PSG are a nasty bunch when they are not winning, same for Real.
So with no real interest I do think City are the best team .


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## fundy (Apr 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think supporting English sides because they're English has died out, because they're not actually English anymore are they, really? City actually have more English first teamers than is typical nowadays, in Stones, Walker, Sterling and Foden I guess. But Chelsea only have 2 or 3, Liverpool again 2 or 3, *Arsenal even less than that*.
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal could have 5 English starting tonight!


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I can’t understand anyone wanting a foreign team to beat an English side, we see in every sport how other nationalities take delight in beating “the English”

If you’re in direct competition, ie, still in the comp, then yes it’s fully understandible, but some of the reasons they don’t want English teams to do well are petty and childish.

Finally, got family, very good friends and decent people on here who support other teams, why wouldn’t I want them to see them happy?

Hopefully see a Utd/Arsenal EL Final as well.

If it is all English finals, that’s enough for me and don’t care who wins on the night.
		
Click to expand...

Why is it petty and childish?

Football is tribal, and although that doesnt excuse some of the extreme stuff said and done under that banner,  it's what your typical Englishman is about.

North vs South

Underdog vs favourite

A lot hate the other countries in the Union (I dont), and what was the old saying about putting x amount of Englishmen in a room and they will hate each other?

Maybe its just being English?


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## DanFST (Apr 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why is it petty and childish?

Football is tribal
		
Click to expand...

Exactly, but the English league vs the rest.


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## IanM (Apr 29, 2021)

I support a team in the non-league, so have no direct axe to grind.

But if we get 4 Premier League Teams in the 2 Finals, it'll really wind up the UEFA Folk ...so that has to be a good thing!  Not to mention the old angry persons from other parts of_ "these islands!" _

It'll be even nicer to see a few Englishmen on the pitch too... but not expecting too many these days!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Exactly, but the English league vs the rest.
		
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Nah don’t understand that - no one supports the “English league” - there are some European teams that i would prefer to see win the CL than another English team - Dortmund, Ajax , Ac Milan etc . Quite happy to see any other English club lose in Europe - just as I would expect fans of English clubs in Europe to be happy to see Liverpool lose - suspect the Mancs , Chelsea fans etc enjoyed watching Liverpool get knocked out by Real Madrid


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why is it petty and childish?

Football is tribal, and although that doesnt excuse some of the extreme stuff said and done under that banner,  it's what your typical Englishman is about.

North vs South

Underdog vs favourite

A lot hate the other countries in the Union (I dont), and what was the old saying about putting x amount of Englishmen in a room and they will hate each other?

Maybe its just being English?
		
Click to expand...

I said “some” Pete, “some”


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 29, 2021)

I have a few friends who are City fans and would be happy for them to win.
Let’s not forget City can be really nasty as well ( Fernandinho) when their not winning.
But am not really bothered who wins.
Just hope the best football team wins , for me that’s City.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Exactly, but the English league vs the rest.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, let me ask you this, as you are one of the more sensible 'ammers.

If your team is given so much stick by Everton, Man U, Chelsea, City (for the vast majority of their fans), plus others with a beef, why should I support them teams?

The other reason is a selfish one - I want my club to be the best, so hated it when man U won 19 leagues, and I also dont like it when other English teams win it, especially when supposed world giants like Chelsea and City arent mentioned in the same breath as Villa and forest - Love it. Most fans/players hate it when someone beats one of their records, and we are no different.

Football tribalism, banter and arguing/discussing is great (when sensible), and we all have our angles and arguments.

If you want English teams to win, no problem, but I was brought up on the more tribal aspect and although I have vastly improved on my biased opinions and outlooks over the years, a good bit is still there.

Again, not saying all, but wonder if some who are less tribal go the game often - I know where this ones gonna go...... 

Edit: I would expect 80-90% of Chelsea, Spurs and Gooners fans to not want West Ham to do well in Europe and in the main prefer a northern team to win it, if they must, although for some man u and Liverpool are still the bigger hatred.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I said “some” Pete, “some”

Click to expand...

Anyway, you started it!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok, let me ask you this, as you are one of the more sensible 'ammers.

If your team is given so much stick by Everton, Man U, Chelsea, City (for the vast majority of their fans), plus others with a beef, why should I support them teams?

The other reason is a selfish one - I want my club to be the best, so hated it when man U won 19 leagues, and I also dont like it when other English teams win it, especially when supposed world giants like Chelsea and City arent mentioned in the same breath as Villa and forest - Love it. Most fans/players hate it when someone beats one of their records, and we are no different.

Football tribalism, banter and arguing/discussing is great (when sensible), and we all have our angles and arguments.

If you want English teams to win, no problem, but I was brought up on the more tribal aspect and although I have vastly improved on my biased opinions and outlooks over the years, a good bit is still there.

Again, not saying all, but wonder if some who are less tribal go the game often - I know where this ones gonna go...... 

Click to expand...

Big difference between supporting a particular team and wanting any English team to win a Comp.

Happily see Lpool get relegated or even better see them go out of business, but before that happens I’d have no issue with you winning every European Cup they enter, apart from a miracle year when we qualify fo one.

Clubs should be rightly proud of their past but we live in the here and now, and why would a Lpool fan care if Forest or Villa won the European Cup in the past or if a current non-rival won it in the future?

I don’t see how “Football tribalism, banter and arguing/discussing is great (when sensible), and we all have our angles and arguments.” changes just because an English Club wins a European Comp? If anything it adds to it.

As for the last paragraph, that gets shot down in flames as soon as LP comments on the subject.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Big difference between supporting a particular team and wanting any English team to win a Comp.

Happily see Lpool get relegated or even better see them go out of business, but before that happens I’d have no issue with you winning every European Cup they enter, apart from a miracle year when we qualify fo one.

Clubs should be rightly proud of their past but we live in the here and now, and why would a Lpool fan care if Forest or Villa won the European Cup in the past or if a current non-rival won it in the future?

I don’t see how “Football tribalism, banter and arguing/discussing is great (when sensible), and we all have our angles and arguments.” changes just because an English Club wins a European Comp? If anything it adds to it.

As for the last paragraph, that gets shot down in flames as soon as LP comments on the subject.

Click to expand...

Ok, so what do you think Liverpool and Man U fans use as ammo when "who is the most successful club" is the argument? 

No you scouse rabscallions are the best.

I beg to differ, my mill owning friend, Manchester United, (for that be their name) are surely the top trumps.........

Get real. Its why this is probably the longest thread on the forum.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok, so what do you think Liverpool and Man U fans use as ammo when "who is the most successful club" is the argument?

No you scouse rabscallions are the best.

I beg to differ, my mill owning friend, Manchester United, (for that be their name) are surely the top trumps.........

Get real. Its why this is probably the longest thread on the forum.
		
Click to expand...

Steady on, were I have said ALL Man Utd fans shouldn’t hate Lpool or vice versa? Granted you have a rivalry as the biggest 2 Clubs, but it’s you who mentioned City, Villa, Forest, West Ham etc, you don’t have anywhere near the history with those Clubs so why have the same attitude towards them? 

Also confused over this word hate! To quote LP “Let’s be honest - “universally hated”? Seriously - it’s a football team at the end of the day and millions support it just like millions don’t . If someone wants to “hate” a football club that for me shows more about their own mentality than anything else and a lot of times it comes from people who try and think up these rivalries.”


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## DanFST (Apr 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There are some European teams that i would prefer to see win the CL than another English team - Dortmund, Ajax , Ac Milan etc.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with that, but PSG are the the model of what I hate, win a micky mouse league but nothing else. And are somehow one of the "best in the world".  Real Madrid for obvious financial/political reasons. Chuck in a likeable team or a true underdog, I'll prefer them.



Liverbirdie said:



			Ok, let me ask you this, as you are one of the more sensible 'ammers.

If your team is given so much stick by Everton, Man U, Chelsea, City (for the vast majority of their fans), plus others with a beef, why should I support them teams?

The other reason is a selfish one - I want my club to be the best.

Edit: I would expect 80-90% of Chelsea, Spurs and Gooners fans to not want West Ham to do well in Europe and in the main prefer a northern team to win it, if they must, although for some man u and Liverpool are still the bigger hatred.
		
Click to expand...

Don't insinuate I'm supporting Chelsea. I Just think they are mildly less annoying than PSG or Madrid. Us and City get on well, I'd be happy if they won. Large chunk of their fans are very similar to us, watched crap for years, always good to us when we go up there. It's not which team I like, it's which fans do I dislike least from away days and experiences. I only hate Millwall, I want them to fall off the face of the earth. Chelsea are a joke, the club is completely different to the one I hated back in the day.

Maybe it's because we've been crap for so long, the majority of fans around the country are decent to us, and us in return. We even got on well with your lot in Cardiff in 06.


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## Bdill93 (Apr 29, 2021)

Im a Villa STH - home and away 38 games a year (pre-covid)

I have no horse in the European competitions and therefore just like to see English clubs do well. I dont sit cheering them on, but I'd much rather our league held the champions of europe than Spain or Germany.

I like seeing all english finals too - speaks to the strength of our league - but I really dont give two hoots who wins, so long as its a good game! 

If it was ever B'ham (LOL NEVER), Baggies or Wolves - Id be cheering on the other team, but besides those I really dont care. I can understand top 6/8 fans not sharing the same view but the situation is totally different.


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## Piece (Apr 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do most non Chelsea/City fans want one of them to win the Champions League just because they're English?
If so, why?
Never have done and probably never will.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely. I want English clubs to do well.


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## AmandaJR (Apr 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Least - Real are just horrible, I don't want them any where near the final
3rd Chelsea, no thanks. I can still see John Terry there 
2nd PSG, take out Neymar and they don't offend me at all. Good to see an alternative to the regulars
1st, City. Quite happy for City to win. Growing up in the NW I know the pain the fans have gone through. *They still have their sense of doom and expectation it will end tomorrow, it is endearing *. They also play fabulous football and the improvements the owners have done in the area can only be admired.
		
Click to expand...

Nailed it. Last night I was "watching" the BBC text updates and we were 1-0 down. David then said "you've scored" and from then on I couldn't check again and he had to as clearly that was the lucky way to check the score


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## fundy (Apr 29, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Nailed it. Last night I was "watching" the BBC text updates and we were 1-0 down. David then said "you've scored" and from then on I couldn't check again and he had to as clearly that was the lucky way to check the score 

Click to expand...


recreating the Ceefax era of saturday afternoons  love it


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## Tashyboy (Apr 29, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Nailed it. Last night I was "watching" the BBC text updates and we were 1-0 down. David then said "you've scored" and from then on I couldn't check again and he had to as clearly that was the lucky way to check the score 

Click to expand...

I deliberately never followed the game. I couldn’t live through another “ typical”  City moment. After all the trophies we have had over the last decade. My nerves won’t take it. After 81 mins of the game, my lad got outta bed came downstairs and shoved his phone under my nose. “ Look City’s winning2-1 and there down to 10 men”. I could of smashed him. In that nine minutes it felt like I had missed 2 birthday and anniversary and Christmas. for the second leg am going in a coma for 90 minutes.


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## AmandaJR (Apr 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I deliberately never followed the game. I couldn’t live through another “ typical”  City moment. After all the trophies we have had over the last decade. My nerves won’t take it. After 81 mins of the game, my lad got outta bed came downstairs and shoved his phone under my nose. “ Look City’s winning2-1 and there down to 10 men”. I could of smashed him. In that nine minutes it felt like I had missed 2 birthday and anniversary and Christmas. for the second leg am going in a coma for 90 minutes.
		
Click to expand...

I was so pleased I don't have BT Sport as it would be too much to take!


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## fundy (Apr 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I deliberately never followed the game. I couldn’t live through another “ typical”  City moment. After all the trophies we have had over the last decade. My nerves won’t take it. After 81 mins of the game, my lad got outta bed came downstairs and shoved his phone under my nose. “ Look City’s winning2-1 and there down to 10 men”. I could of smashed him. In that nine minutes it felt like I had missed 2 birthday and anniversary and Christmas. for the second leg am going in a coma for 90 minutes.
		
Click to expand...




AmandaJR said:



			I was so pleased I don't have BT Sport as it would be too much to take!
		
Click to expand...

Is it just me seeing a business opportunity for nervous city fans here 

he says ahead of Arsenals game later


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## fundy (Apr 29, 2021)

square pegs and round holes for Arsenal tonight, lets hope it works and Emery doesnt have the last laugh


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## davemc1 (Apr 29, 2021)

Europa league just got interesting 😃


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## fundy (Apr 29, 2021)

square pegs in round holes doesnt work, whod have thought it lol

everything bad in our season summed up in a European semi final first half  2 non full backs at full back, insisting on playing out from the back when not capable, cant defend a set piece, no leaders, no passion and for some reason thought this would be a great time to try playing without a centre forward


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## paddyc (Apr 29, 2021)

no shots two crap goals given away, no recognised striker , penalty overturned and they look like they can score with every attack. Rob Holding....not good enough,Partey simply cannot shoot.  if we concede another this tie is over. sort it out Arteta


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Steady on, were I have said ALL Man Utd fans shouldn’t hate Lpool or vice versa? Granted you have a rivalry as the biggest 2 Clubs, but it’s you who mentioned City, Villa, Forest, West Ham etc, you don’t have anywhere near the history with those Clubs so why have the same attitude towards them?

Also confused over this word hate! To quote LP “Let’s be honest - “universally hated”? Seriously - it’s a football team at the end of the day and millions support it just like millions don’t . If someone wants to “hate” a football club that for me shows more about their own mentality than anything else and a lot of times it comes from people who try and think up these rivalries.”
		
Click to expand...

I think its you who needs to have a word with yourself. 

You say hate in football is a terrible thing, but you're happy to see Liverpool fold as a club? Seriously? Local fans with no club to support, jobs lost, the city harmed, tourism down. 

No matter how much I hate other clubs, I wouldnt want to see them fold.

 Actually make it a strong word.


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## richart (Apr 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do most non Chelsea/City fans want one of them to win the Champions League just because they're English?
If so, why?
Never have done and probably never will.
		
Click to expand...

Because they are English. In the old days I would support Scottish Clubs as well when they were getting to finals. Doesn’t mean buying a scarf, but would definitely want them to win.

Neither Chelsea or Man City are local rivals to my team. Now if Oxford, Swindon or Aldershot look like winning a European Cup I would definitely not support them ! 😜


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I agree with that, but PSG are the the model of what I hate, win a micky mouse league but nothing else. And are somehow one of the "best in the world".  Real Madrid for obvious financial/political reasons. Chuck in a likeable team or a true underdog, I'll prefer them.



Don't insinuate I'm supporting Chelsea. I Just think they are mildly less annoying than PSG or Madrid. Us and City get on well, I'd be happy if they won. Large chunk of their fans are very similar to us, watched crap for years, always good to us when we go up there. It's not which team I like, it's which fans do I dislike least from away days and experiences. I only hate Millwall, I want them to fall off the face of the earth. Chelsea are a joke, the club is completely different to the one I hated back in the day.

Maybe it's because we've been crap for so long, the majority of fans around the country are decent to us, and us in return. We even got on well with your lot in Cardiff in 06.
		
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Overall Chelsea are less annoying than PSG and Madrid (on the telly), but my god they were 10 years ago. 2005-2012 they were horrible and Mourinho's lack of humility went right through the club.

City fans still like to play the "little city" card, but once they've won a European cup and they are well into their 2nd decade of success that will change. Liverpool / United / Chelsea and to a lesser extent Arsenal fans all got to a point were they were insufferable, expected success and were arrogant after sustained periods of success, no-one will be any different.

The people who I get on with most on the forum who I've met quite a few times over the last 10 years are Chelsea, Man U and Everton fans and long may it continue. 

Yep, I was there in 06 also, 5 yards away from the segregation line in the main stand, and yes, us and the ammers got on very well. I was also at Upton park many years ago on the night Ince got a hat trick for you and it was "lively" that night.


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2021)

United making this more difficult than they should.


EDIT : Having said that, they've just got their 5th!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think its you who needs to have a word with yourself.

You say hate in football is a terrible thing, but you're happy to see Liverpool fold as a club? Seriously? Local fans with no club to support, jobs lost, the city harmed, tourism down.

No matter how much I hate other clubs, I wouldnt want to see them fold.

Actually make it a strong word.
		
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So ignore the points in the post and play the poster! Not the first time recently either.

Let’s get one thing clear though, I don’t hate you lot, it seems the only people talking about hate is Lpool fans, like I said, I’ve got family and friends who love the Club and I rather they were happy over some foreign Club supporter.

As for the going out of business, I wouldn’t lose much sleep over it if it happened, I doubt it ever will, so I’ll keep it as a dream.


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## fundy (Apr 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			United making this more difficult than they should.


EDIT : Having said that, they've just got their 5th!
		
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Pretty sure you wanted to watch the Arsenal game if you wanted to see making it difficult!!!!

Somehow were still alive, fortunate penalty then Capoue kindly evening the sides up

Just whether we lose to Emery at Arsenal or Utd in the final now  at least we still have a chance, didnt look likely with half hour to go. Its the hope that kills......................


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2021)

Good 2nd half for Utd, can’t see them blowing it in the return leg.

Didn’t see any of the Arsenal game, but hopefully getting that goal back will make the difference.


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2021)

A great 2nd half, almost into the final.
I don't think even United can blow this.


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## paddyc (Apr 29, 2021)

Done well to get out of that with a 2-1 and with a chance in the 2nd leg  trouble is we look fragile at the back and we cant keep a clean sheet


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## fundy (Apr 29, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Done well to get out of that with a 2-1 and with a chance in the 2nd leg  trouble is we look fragile at the back and we cant keep a clean sheet
		
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more got lucky than done well for me, away goal pointless when you are going to concede, have to go hell for leather at home and score plenty, sadly that wont be our approach   arteta really came out of tonight badly for me


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			So ignore the points in the post and play the poster! Not the first time recently either.

Let’s get one thing clear though, I don’t hate you lot, it seems the only people talking about hate is Lpool fans, like I said, I’ve got family and friends who love the Club and I rather they were happy over some foreign Club supporter.

As for the going out of business, I wouldn’t lose much sleep over it if it happened, I doubt it ever will, so I’ll keep it as a dream.
		
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Pure deflection.

You dont hate any club, but would gladly see one go out of business - thats worse than hate.

Enjoy your dreams, personally mine would be about my own club, rather than another, but after all you are a blue, par for the course.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Pure deflection.

You dont hate any club, but would gladly see one go out of business - thats worse than hate.

Enjoy your dreams, personally mine would be about my own club, rather than another, but after all you are a blue, par for the course.
		
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😂😂 Deflection 😂😂 You got personal because I want ALL English Clubs do well in Europe and all you’ve done is mention other Clubs and how much you want to see them suffer! 😂😂

I’d rather put them out of their misery than see them suffer forever.👍🏻


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			😂😂 Deflection 😂😂 You got personal because I want ALL English Clubs do well in Europe and all you’ve done is mention other Clubs and how much you want to see them suffer! 😂😂

I’d rather put them out of their misery than see them suffer forever.👍🏻
		
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Dont try and dress it up as anything laudable.

You know its a horrendous thing to wish on any set of football fans. 

Maybe armchair fans are a totally different breed after all.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dont try and dress it up as anything laudable.

You know its a horrendous thing to wish on any set of football fans.

Maybe armchair fans are a totally different breed after all.

Click to expand...

And here’s the Armchair comment😂😂 Stay classy Pete, stay classy.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 30, 2021)

Don't want to curse anything but would be good to see 2 all English finals!


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## pauljames87 (Apr 30, 2021)

drive4show said:



			Don't want to curse anything but would be good to see 2 all English finals!
		
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Have to disagree with that. Last time it was very boring .. felt like another spurs Vs Liverpool game 

Where as if it had been say spurs Madrid or Liverpool Vs juventus you get something more


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Have to disagree with that. Last time it was very boring .. felt like another spurs Vs Liverpool game

Where as if it had been say spurs Madrid or Liverpool Vs juventus you get something more
		
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I was referring more to the achievement of English teams doing well in Europe.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 30, 2021)

drive4show said:



			I was referring more to the achievement of English teams doing well in Europe.
		
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I'd agree with that yes , just won't be the best watch compared


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## Orikoru (Apr 30, 2021)

drive4show said:



			I was referring more to the achievement of English teams doing well in Europe.
		
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Perhaps you missed it but we just spent the last two pages discussing how most of us don't want other English teams to do well in Europe.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Perhaps you missed it but we just spent the last two pages discussing how most of us don't want other English teams to do well in Europe. 

Click to expand...

I'm with Pauldj42 on this, want to see all English teams do well. Apart from Spurs obviously 😉


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2021)

drive4show said:



			I'm with Pauldj42 on this, want to see all English teams do well. Apart from Spurs obviously 😉
		
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Armchair supporter!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Perhaps you missed it but we just spent the last two pages discussing how most of us don't want other English teams to do well in Europe. 

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You need to have another look, the majority do.


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## Orikoru (Apr 30, 2021)

drive4show said:



			I'm with Pauldj42 on this, want to see all English teams do well. *Apart from Spurs* obviously 😉
		
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Lucky you've not seen that in quite a while then!


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 30, 2021)

drive4show said:



			I'm with Pauldj42 on this, want to see all English teams do well. Apart from Spurs obviously 😉
		
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If you have tartan armchairs, you dont count!!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 30, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			If you have tartan armchairs, you dont count!! 

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When is the British super league starting which Celtic and Rangers will dominate?


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## richart (Apr 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Armchair supporter!

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I was waiting for someone to call me an armchair supporter, though this season it has seemed that way.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2021)

richart said:



			I was waiting for someone to call me an armchair supporter, though this season it has seemed that way.

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You have to “know your place” “support a mid-table team” “Not attended more than 8 PL matches a season(pre-covid)” and be “bitter”

I don’t think you fit any of that criteria.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You have to “know your place” “support a mid-table team” “Not attended more than 8 PL matches a season(pre-covid)” and be “bitter”

I don’t think you fit any of that criteria.

Click to expand...

Finally, the message has got through.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2021)

Good to see the Officials have learnt from their mistake over the sending off in the West Ham v Chelsea match!


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## Piece (Apr 30, 2021)

That’s not a red. Not even a VAR monitor referral 🤷🏼‍♂️.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2021)

Piece said:



			That’s not a red. Not even a VAR monitor referral 🤷🏼‍♂️.
		
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Denial of a goal scoring opportunity they’ve just said. Ridiculous!


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## Beezerk (Apr 30, 2021)

I've only seen one angle from Twitter, looked ugly but I need to see the whole thing.


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## SaintHacker (Apr 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Denial of a goal scoring opportunity they’ve just said. Ridiculous!
		
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but denying a goal scoring opportunity by taking the ball off the striker is the whole point of being a defender?
The game is ruined, I'm done...


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## fundy (Apr 30, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Correct me if I'm wrong, but denying a goal scoring opportunity by taking the ball off the striker is the whole point of being a defender?
The game is ruined, I'm done...
		
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cant believe its denying a goal scoring op, surely its violent conduct (ie supposedly out of control after playing the ball) there again they havent a clue whats going on so how would we know

4.18 for the var check, 3 mins added, they just continue to make themselves look utterly stupid


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			cant believe its denying a goal scoring op, surely its violent conduct (ie supposedly out of control after playing the ball) there again they havent a clue whats going on so how would we know

4.18 for the var check, 3 mins added, they just continue to make themselves look utterly stupid
		
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Yep, I thought the same when he red carded him, surely they can see he played the ball first!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2021)

Pleased for Southampton getting a point out of that game.


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## Slime (Apr 30, 2021)

Just seen the red card incident, it wasn't even a foul.
Pathetic.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 1, 2021)

Slime said:



			Just seen the red card incident, it wasn't even a foul.
Pathetic.
		
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Watched it this morning 

That was exactly the situation VAR was supposed to be introduced for 

At full speed you could see why the ref may give a red card for either dangerous play or denying a goal scoring opportunity 

But as soon as VAR sees it then it’s clear that he got the ball and then the man - not even a foul 

Just like the West Ham one - how can they judge that is a red card


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## Billysboots (May 1, 2021)

Slime said:



			Just seen the red card incident, it wasn't even a foul.
Pathetic.
		
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Martin Tyler and Alan Smith both speculated that the red card must have been for serious foul play. Whatever the reason, another shocking decision, nobody seems to be able to explain why VAR didn’t intervene, and we have yet another red card which will doubtless be overturned.

It’s all getting rather embarrassing.


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## pendodave (May 1, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Martin Tyler and Alan Smith both speculated that the red card must have been for serious foul play. Whatever the reason, another shocking decision, nobody seems to be able to explain why VAR didn’t intervene, and we have yet another red card which will doubtless be overturned.

It’s all getting rather embarrassing.
		
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It's as if the refs are having a collective breakdown. 
I wonder if this is an unintended consequence of VAR? Once every decision can be reviewed at any time, they stop actually being actually able to ref a game "live" and have lost the ability to concentrate on making the correct/best decision in the moment.


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## fundy (May 1, 2021)

Think we have a new favourite in the refs private "worst VAR decision comp", expect Dean to up the bar again so though lol


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## fundy (May 1, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Martin Tyler and Alan Smith both speculated that the red card must have been for serious foul play. Whatever the reason, another shocking decision, nobody seems to be able to explain why VAR didn’t intervene, and we have yet another red card which will doubtless be overturned.

It’s all getting rather embarrassing.
		
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In terms of inept performances, those 2 were up there with the ref, huge amounts of splinters


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## Billysboots (May 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			In terms of inept performances, those 2 were up there with the ref, huge amounts of splinters
		
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Only watched the sending off so I’ll reserve judgment for now!

With regard to VAR I’d quite happily see it consigned to the rubbish heap. Let’s go back to the old days, and merely retain goal line technology. I accept there will be mistakes by officials but, let’s be brutally honest, some of the mistakes now are infinitely worse. VAR has not eradicated the howlers, it’s simply brought in different ones, and has destroyed a lot of the spontaneity which makes the game what it is.

It’s time to accept that the technology, and the way it has been managed pretty much from day one, simply hasn’t worked.


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## fundy (May 1, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Only watched the sending off so I’ll reserve judgment for now!

With regard to VAR I’d quite happily see it consigned to the rubbish heap. Let’s go back to the old days, and merely retain goal line technology. I accept there will be mistakes by officials but, let’s be brutally honest, some of the mistakes now are infinitely worse. VAR has not eradicated the howlers, it’s simply brought in different ones, and has destroyed a lot of the spontaneity which makes the game what it is.

It’s time to accept that the technology, and the way it has been managed pretty much from day one, simply hasn’t worked.
		
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Think plenty will agree with that view, the big flaw for me, is it will still be the same idiots in charge making awful decisions.

Think the way forward is for the top level refs to sit down with a group of ex players and work through 100s of decisions from this season. Get an understanding of why a ref is giving a decision and also a players view as to whats happening. From that they need to clearly define how they intend to referee games next year and how they interpret certain situations/decisions. Ideally they would provide a small set of examples of what is and isnt a foul/penalty/red card in a handful of key situations before the season so that everyone knows where we stand and then ref to those consistently. I also think the refs should be accountable and provide an explanation of key decisions after the match (a report, not being interviewed by whichever clown the tv co want to put up). Oh and for the line drawing offsides, make it boots only (and if youre serious about it put a chip in each boot and the ball  )

That or bin it off as you say 

PS This is still not great for the game going fan, but without minimising the number of decisions reviewed and speeding them up to almost instant im not sure how theyre going to address that issue (actually i am, sadly they dont care so wont address it at all)


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## 4LEX (May 1, 2021)

Fulham going down. Must win game and not even a booking in their local derby? Pathetic. Half of the side and their agents have agreed deals with other clubs and don't want to get injured for next season. Back to where they belong


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2021)

Another rubbish home performance and beaten by the better team.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

All kicked off at Old Trafford- Man Utd fans breaking into the stadium , protesting on the pitch , flares being thrown - players not allowed to go to the stadium yet. Match delayed


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

Comrade Neville continuing to stir the 💩 over the ESL.  If you are going to do it, get your facts right.


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## fundy (May 2, 2021)

Neville and Carragher promoting the right for peaceful protest whilst its kicking off between the fans and police outside


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Comrade Neville continuing to stir the 💩 over the ESL.  If you are going to do it, get your facts right.
		
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He is now going on about the Liverpool owners being “dangerous”


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## AmandaJR (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Comrade Neville continuing to stir the 💩 over the ESL.  If you are going to do it, get your facts right.
		
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Seriously who does he think he is?! Ooh he is so outraged...


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Neville and Carragher promoting the right for peaceful protest whilst its kicking off between the fans and police outside
		
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Shame the cameras didn't zoom in on those throwing the bottles.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Seriously who does he think he is?! Ooh he is so outraged...



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Not so outraged that he had no issues getting funding from a foreign billionaire for Salford City

Man Utd fans are using the Super League stuff to protest against the owners when they have been wanting them out ever since they stopped winning titles etc


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## fundy (May 2, 2021)

Sad they needed to protest to overshadow an amazing Arsenal performance earlier


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## Slime (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not so outraged that he had no issues getting funding from a foreign billionaire for Salford City

Man Utd fans are using the Super League stuff to protest against the owners when they have been wanting them out ever since they stopped winning titles etc
		
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The second sentence is inaccurate, they wanted them out from day one because they never wanted them in at all.


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## 4LEX (May 2, 2021)

So much respect for the Utd fans, this is the only way to get the Glazers out. Huge media attention and stopping games from taking place


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			So much respect for the Utd fans, this is the only way to get the Glazers out. Huge media attention and stopping games from taking place 

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The problem is it’s not going to make a difference- they won’t sell up. If UTD were about the win the league and in the semis of the CL this protest wouldn’t have happened


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			So much respect for the Utd fans, *this is the only way to get the Glazers out.* Huge media attention and stopping games from taking place 

Click to expand...

The only way to get the Glazers out is when the Glazers decide to sell.  It has stuff all to do with what the fans think.


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

Can the Premier League sanction Man Utd if the game doesn't go ahead?


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## Tashyboy (May 2, 2021)

For all the flak that City fans have taken over the years re oil money. I have never heard one City fan complain re there owners. 
Sheik Mansoor take a bow son. 
And for me there in lies a massive problem. You have owners that are happy to put non football money into a business.And however you dress it up, it is a business. And there are the powers that run football want to curtail that. They want to bring in limitations Re how much you can spend.
Then you have other clubs owners that are siphoning money out of the game at an alarming rate and nothing is done. 
Bottom line, you get what is happening today. 
PS, for the record I am totally behind what the Utd fans are trying to achieve.


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## Tashyboy (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can the Premier League sanction Man Utd if the game doesn't go ahead?
		
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Not how I would want the title to go to City.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			For all the flak that City fans have taken over the years re oil money. *I have never heard one City fan complain re there owners.
Sheik Mansoor take a bow son.*
And for me there in lies a massive problem. You have owners that are happy to put non football money into a business.And however you dress it up, it is a business. And there are the powers that run football want to curtail that. They want to bring in limitations Re how much you can spend.
Then you have other clubs owners that are siphoning money out of the game at an alarming rate and nothing is done.
Bottom line, you get what is happening today.
PS, for the record I am totally behind what the Utd fans are trying to achieve.
		
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Because they have spent a billion plus to buy players and win trophies - fans don’t care 99% of the time if the team is winning 

You won’t care where the money has come from as long as it’s buying big players


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## Old Skier (May 2, 2021)

Listening to Richards on Sky tells you all you need to know about the acceptance of cheats at the professional level.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Listening to Richards on Sky tells you all you need to know about the acceptance of cheats at the professional level.
		
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And then they start talking about UTD spending whatever it takes to buy players like Grealish and Kane - one minute going on about the big 6 dominating and then 5 mins later going on about the club needing to spend £150mil etc


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## fundy (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can the Premier League sanction Man Utd if the game doesn't go ahead?
		
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even if they could they wont!


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## fundy (May 2, 2021)

Game cancelled


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## fundy (May 2, 2021)

On the plus side sky get a couple more hours of Neville and Carra lol

off to walk round the garden again


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## Dando (May 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			So much respect for the Utd fans, this is the only way to get the Glazers out. Huge media attention and stopping games from taking place 

Click to expand...

🤡


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

Game postponed- wonder what the Premier League will do now , prob award UTD a penalty


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2021)

Well said Carragher.


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## AmandaJR (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because they have spent a billion plus to buy players and win trophies - fans don’t care 99% of the time if the team is winning

You won’t care where the money has come from as long as it’s buying big players
		
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So United haven't spent big??!!


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## Slime (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The problem is it’s not going to make a difference- they won’t sell up. *If UTD were about the win the league and in the semis of the CL this protest wouldn’t have happened*

Click to expand...

Come on, Phil, you don't know that, you're just guessing and repeating Graham Souness.
I think it'd still have happened.


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Well said Carragher.

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Missed it, what was it please?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			So United haven't spent big??!!
		
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Yes spent big but haven’t been winning the titles. Many will just forget or ignore behind the scenes if their team is winning. 

If next season United win the CL or title then the fans won’t be protesting , they will fill the stadiums. Football has long gone past caring - it’s all about winning


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Missed it, what was it please?
		
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Highlighting that all Clubs have idiots and that shouldn’t tarnish how the majority behaved or the message they were trying to get across, he hates it when the idiots at Lpool let them down and other fans jump on it.
He preferred it 2 weeks ago when all fans came together to condemn the ESL.


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## AmandaJR (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes spent big but haven’t been winning the titles. Many will just forget or ignore behind the scenes if their team is winning.
		
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Not quite what you said to Tashy...Because they have spent a billion plus to buy players and win trophies. 

Kind of implies United haven't and hence their complaints against their owners...

Anyway. I do agree no way would this have happened if they needed to win today to actually win something


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## Old Skier (May 2, 2021)

Will Tottenham fans do a copy cat tonight.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Not quite what you said to Tashy...Because they have spent a billion plus to buy players and win trophies.

Kind of implies United haven't and hence their complaints against their owners...

Anyway. *I do agree no way would this have happened if they needed to win today to actually win something* 

Click to expand...

Yep exactly - Hence why nothing was done against Roma because they had something to play for.


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## Slime (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep exactly - Hence why nothing was done against Roma because they had something to play for.
		
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There's always something to play for when United take on Liverpool!
I'd suggest that this match is a far higher profile game and, and this is very important, it's on a Sunday afternoon, Live on Sky.
Today was ALWAYS going to have a far greater impact in my opinion.


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

I wonder how that was organised this afternoon?  What were we saying earlier about social media and social responsibility...


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I wonder how that was organised this afternoon?  What were we saying earlier about social media and social responsibility...
		
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Micah Richards said this protest taking place was announced 3 or 4 days ago.

You can only think they expected a peaceful demo similar to Chelsea/Arsenal demos last week.


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## Jensen (May 2, 2021)

Sadly football has moved on too far. The “Product” no longer relies on local fans to generate sufficient income to survive. The bulk of the income is generated Worldwide and from Sky, so in comparison the income generated from true fans is a “mere drop in the ocean”
While I agree with the protests, sadly at the end of the day it won’t have any effect on the owners selling the club.
Despite Roy Keane admiring the protest from the fans and indicating they might have further measures planned, the Glaziers will NOT sell. 
If he thinks it will have any impact then maybe he should have a chat with the leprechaun 🍀 at the bottom of his garden.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			There's always something to play for when United take on Liverpool!
I'd suggest that this match is a far higher profile game and, and this is very important, it's on a Sunday afternoon, Live on Sky.
Today was ALWAYS going to have a far greater impact in my opinion.
		
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If United were closer to City and had a chance to win the title then they wouldn’t have a done a thing today - there is no way they would have damaged any chance of winning a trophy , the exact reason why they didn’t do a thing at Roma - because if the club was winning instead of being in the shadows of City and Liverpool over the past 4/5 years then the fans wouldn’t be protesting.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If United were closer to City and had a chance to win the title then they wouldn’t have a done a thing today - there is no way they would have damaged any chance of winning a trophy , the exact reason why they didn’t do a thing at Roma - because if the club was winning instead of being in the shadows of City and Liverpool over the past 4/5 years then the fans wouldn’t be protesting.
		
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@Blue in Munich Perfect example of what Carragher was saying.👍🏻


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## Jensen (May 2, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Will Tottenham fans do a copy cat tonight.
		
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Not now Mourinho has been sacked 🤣🤣🤣


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## Tashyboy (May 2, 2021)

Apparently the prem league has investigated today’s events at old Trafford and VAR have awarded a penalty to Utd. 😳


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Apparently the prem league has investigated today’s events at old Trafford and VAR have awarded a penalty to Utd. 😳
		
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#8,154.  

Almost as late as Fernandinho.


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## Tashyboy (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			#8,154. 

Almost as late as Fernandinho.
		
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If you cannot see it you don’t know 😉


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## 4LEX (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The problem is it’s not going to make a difference- they won’t sell up. If UTD were about the win the league and in the semis of the CL this protest wouldn’t have happened
		
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Not true. The Green and Gold protests in 2010 were on the back of 3 titles in a row and a CL.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Not true. The Green and Gold protests in 2010 were on the back of 3 titles in a row and a CL.
		
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Do you mean for a final where they wore the old Green and Yellow Man Utd shirts and scarves- and that was it , they ditched it a couple weeks later

Unfortunately the sport is rotten to the core - every team wants the money, whether that’s getting into the Prem or CL , the players want the millions , the agents want their share. The fans want to see the players arrive - they want to see the success and trophies. The owners won’t care about protests because they still get their money. Football is a business now and stopped being about the sport a long time ago


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## Slime (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*If United were closer to City and had a chance to win the title then they wouldn’t have a done a thing today *- there is no way they would have damaged any chance of winning a trophy , the exact reason why they didn’t do a thing at Roma - because if the club was winning instead of being in the shadows of City and Liverpool over the past 4/5 years then the fans wouldn’t be protesting.
		
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I just think you are so wrong.
Neither of us actually know, so lets leave it for others to surmise for themselves.
I'm going to stop rinsing and repeating on this subject.


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

The irony of Comrade Neville going on about the evils of rich foreign owners whilst taking money from the broadcaster that bears a large share of the responsibiliity for the situation we find ourselveslves in is mind blowing.


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## Tashyboy (May 2, 2021)

I mentioned months ago I am not renewing my season ticket. Am happy with City, very happy.  But the changing of fixtures for TV,. VAR, bloody VAR. It’s tipped me over the edge. Quite frankly the match going fans. The Prem league in chasing the pounds are taking the piss. Me I have had enough. If the Prem league wants to put telly paying fans first then shove it al watch it on telly.  But not Sky, BT, Amazon. This super league idea is the straw that’s broke the camels back for a lot of fans. Not I suspect so much for the fans of Chelsea and City.


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## Sats (May 2, 2021)

The super european league isn't going ahead. Not too sure why they are protesting any more. Seems you can protest and be offended by everything nowadays. Find something better to do nothing will change. On other notes I hope the game gets abandoned and both lose the points!!!


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## 4LEX (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you mean for a final where they wore the old Green and Yellow Man Utd shirts and scarves- and that was it , they ditched it a couple weeks later
		
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I think more people attended the protest against AC Milan that year than today, it's just a more volatile protest now. However that wasn't your point, you claimed if Utd were successful they'd be no protest, which I just proved was wrong.

And today was picked because it's a much bigger game with TV viewers of 600m, compared to a nothing game against Roma on BT Sport. No one cared about that game. What happened today is the first time in the history of the Premier League a game was cancelled due to fan protests.

This has been bubbling for years and the European Super League was the final straw, this is just the start of it.


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## PieMan (May 2, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Will Tottenham fans do a copy cat tonight.
		
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Think they're still in shock that they were included in the first place....... 😉


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## PieMan (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			The irony of Comrade Neville going on about the evils of rich foreign owners whilst taking money from the broadcaster that bears a large share of the responsibiliity for the situation we find ourselveslves in is mind blowing.
		
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Do you think he forgot about his rich foreign mate who invested in Salford? 🤔😉


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I think more people attended the protest against AC Milan that year than today, it's just a more volatile protest now. However that wasn't your point, you claimed if Utd were successful they'd be no protest, which I just proved was wrong.

And today was picked because it's a much bigger game with TV viewers of 600m, compared to a nothing game against Roma on BT Sport. No one cared about that game. What happened today is the first time in the history of the Premier League a game was cancelled due to fan protests.

This has been bubbling for years and the European Super League was the final straw, this is just the start of it.
		
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The protests today were designed to cause disruption to the game , postponed etc because there was no trophy on the line - if there was a trophy on the line it wouldn’t have happened. The Premier League should now award the game to Liverpool 

Previously their protests where very low key , wearing colours and a couple of banners - but it just died away as they kept winning titles , and if they had kept winning most wouldn’t care on who owned them as long as they kept the players arriving.

This all started back in 1991 and Man Utd where the first club to take advantage of the millions on offer .

It’s funny that after they all talk about how money is ruining the sport etc - they then talk about how Man Utd will improve and the answer - spend millions on more players.

I have no idea what the answer is but I don’t think things are going to change - when your team wins 99.9% won’t care who the owner is and what their links are etc. Whether that’s US Hedge Funds , US Sports owners , Russian Oil billionaires , Middle East billionaires.

It’s too far gone to change now. And when the summer comes along social media will be awash with clubs spending millions more


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## 3offTheTee (May 2, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Do you think he forgot about his rich foreign mate who invested in Salford? 🤔😉
		
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Or his period at Valencia when the fans were waiting @ 2.a.m. when the bus arrived back after Valencia had been hammered by Barca 7-0


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Do you think he forgot about his rich foreign mate who invested in Salford? 🤔😉
		
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to know why they needed a board meeting to decide if Salford City were going to furlough staff; I'd have thought that didn't need much thinking about in his position.

I'd also be interested to know if Neville turned his hotel over to NHS staff at the height of the crisis to save NHS staff long commutes, like a "dangerous" football club owner from SW6 did, despite being banned from running his business in the country where he undertook this act of kindness.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd be interested to know why they needed a board meeting to decide if Salford City were going to furlough staff; I'd have thought that didn't need much thinking about in his position.

I'd also be interested to know if Neville turned his hotel over to NHS staff at the height of the crisis to save NHS staff long commutes, like a "dangerous" football club owner from SW6 did, despite being banned from running his business in the country where he undertook this act of kindness.
		
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Mate, he and Giggs were one of the first with Abramovich to open his hotel’s to NHS Staff, it was reported on 18/19 March last year.

Salford held a board meeting because he’s only 1 of 4 votes and it was discounted straight away. 

Maybe some of your frustration with him could be aimed at the Big 6 Clubs whose billionaires did use the furlough scheme.


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## fundy (May 2, 2021)

Sats said:



			The super european league isn't going ahead. Not too sure why they are protesting any more. Seems you can protest and be offended by everything nowadays. Find something better to do nothing will change. On other notes I hope the game gets abandoned and both lose the points!!!
		
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its not going ahead this time in the format proposed, the protests are aimed at the owners of the clubs who no doubt will continue to try and go down this route with a new proposal sooner rather than later


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## 4LEX (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The protests today were designed to cause disruption to the game , postponed etc because there was no trophy on the line - if there was a trophy on the line it wouldn’t have happened. The Premier League should now award the game to Liverpool

Previously their protests where very low key , wearing colours and a couple of banners - but it just died away as they kept winning titles , and if they had kept winning most wouldn’t care on who owned them as long as they kept the players arriving.

This all started back in 1991 and Man Utd where the first club to take advantage of the millions on offer .

It’s funny that after they all talk about how money is ruining the sport etc - they then talk about how Man Utd will improve and the answer - spend millions on more players.

I have no idea what the answer is but I don’t think things are going to change - when your team wins 99.9% won’t care who the owner is and what their links are etc. Whether that’s US Hedge Funds , US Sports owners , Russian Oil billionaires , Middle East billionaires.

It’s too far gone to change now. And when the summer comes along social media will be awash with clubs spending millions more
		
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The protests were huge in 2010 but the fact you can't remember them shows that line of protest doesn't work. Direct protests have done more today than than anything since 2005. That shows this change in tactic has worked a treat.

I think after the ESL plan they'd be protests whatever, even if Utd had the title won. Ferguson and trophies definitely helped cool the tension in the past, now it's all out war on the owners. 

The rest I agree on. Bit of excitement at the end of poor season. The rematch will be a night game and the potential is even higher for that to be targeted I imagine.


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## fundy (May 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The protests were huge in 2010 but the fact you can't remember them shows that line of protest doesn't work. Direct protests have done more today than than anything since 2005. That shows this change in tactic has worked a treat.

I think after the ESL plan they'd be protests whatever, even if Utd had the title won. Ferguson and trophies definitely helped cool the tension in the past, now it's all out war on the owners.

The rest I agree on. Bit of excitement at the end of poor season. *The rematch will be a night game and the potential is even higher for that to be targeted I imagine*.
		
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that was always the issue with them cancelling today, hard to see how its not on a bigger scale when it is rescheduled


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## Liverbirdie (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The protests today were designed to cause disruption to the game , postponed etc because there was no trophy on the line - if there was a trophy on the line it wouldn’t have happened. The Premier League should now award the game to Liverpool

Previously their protests where very low key , wearing colours and a couple of banners - but it just died away as they kept winning titles , and if they had kept winning most wouldn’t care on who owned them as long as they kept the players arriving.

This all started back in 1991 and Man Utd where the first club to take advantage of the millions on offer .

It’s funny that after they all talk about how money is ruining the sport etc - they then talk about how Man Utd will improve and the answer - spend millions on more players.

I have no idea what the answer is but I don’t think things are going to change - when your team wins 99.9% won’t care who the owner is and what their links are etc. Whether that’s US Hedge Funds , US Sports owners , Russian Oil billionaires , Middle East billionaires.

It’s too far gone to change now. And when the summer comes along social media will be awash with clubs spending millions more
		
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Even if you've surmised some things correctly (its an opinion) and may agree with some, some not, it's not what MATTERS!!!

I dont want to "profit" from fans rightfully protesting about removal of terrible owners. Some of it mis-guided, but overall, I'm behind them. If there were 10k Liverpool fans protesting some divvies would do something daft, and probably the same for any set of 10k footy fans.

You can nit-pick, try and profit from it, or maybe get on the bandwagon and try and help to restructure English football.

We helped to get rid of our previous bad owners, so its not impossible, people who want to give up, go ahead, but no fight, no change.

We dont need owner and business "apologists" and "splitters", we need unity.

Yours, one scouse barsteward.


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## ColchesterFC (May 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Even if you've surmised some things correctly (its an opinion) and may agree with some, some not, it's not what MATTERS!!!

I dont want to "profit" from fans rightfully protesting about removal of terrible owners. Some of it mis-guided, but overall, I'm behind them. If there were 10k Liverpool fans protesting some divvies would do something daft,* and probably the same for any set of 10k footy fans.*

You can nit-pick, try and profit from it, or maybe get on the bandwagon and try and help to restructure English football.

We helped to get rid of our previous bad owners, so its not impossible, people who want to give up, go ahead, but no fight, no change.

We dont need owner and business "apologists" and "splitters", we need unity.

Yours, one scouse barsteward.
		
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Not from my lot. Unless you're going to let us clone each supporter three times to make it up to 10k.

But being serious, even in the 3-4000 we get at home games there are a fair share of idiots. Every club has them and it's up to the decent fans to call them out on the unacceptable behaviour, rather than try to excuse it or make out another club is worse etc.


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## Liverbirdie (May 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not from my lot. Unless you're going to let us clone each supporter three times to make it up to 10k.

But being serious, even in the 3-4000 we get at home games there are a fair share of idiots. Every club has them and it's up to the decent fans to call them out on the unacceptable behaviour, rather than try to excuse it or make out another club is worse etc.
		
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Yes, but sometimes more easily said than done, especially in mob situations.

It is a very emotive subject that they are dealing with.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Even if you've surmised some things correctly (its an opinion) and may agree with some, some not, it's not what MATTERS!!!

I dont want to "profit" from fans rightfully protesting about removal of terrible owners. Some of it mis-guided, but overall, I'm behind them. If there were 10k Liverpool fans protesting some divvies would do something daft, and probably the same for any set of 10k footy fans.

You can nit-pick, try and profit from it, or maybe get on the bandwagon and try and help to restructure English football.

We helped to get rid of our previous bad owners, so its not impossible, people who want to give up, go ahead, but no fight, no change.

We dont need owner and business "apologists" and "splitters", we need unity.

Yours, one scouse barsteward.
		
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Nothing to do with trying to profit from anything - more about this level of protest cannot happen to cause a game to be called off

Also have no issue at all with people doing any sort of peaceful protest - but that wasn’t peaceful , there are plenty of videos all over social media of what was happening , and also what was being chanted by a good number outside the ground

Where was all this “fans together” etc when Bury went out of business - did Sky and Neville do anything to help them out. Those same fans protesting today “peacefully” will be at the front of the queue buying tickets and shirts helping put money into the owners pockets.

Restructuring English football imo is a pipe dream - it’s gone way beyond being able to make any meaningful changes to the sport.  Come the summer if UTD buy Haaland for example and spend £150mil on him anything about the owners will be pushed to the back of peoples minds

For something meaningful to happen it must affect the whole of the sport in Europe - wage caps , maximum transfer fees , even distribution of all Telly money , 50% of all money from the Telly rights goes to the Football league, remove the CL and have it back to the European Cup and UEFA Cup , being in foreign player restrictions, limit spending on only what a club makes , remove agent fees - we could go on but the people at the heart of the sport are as bad as the owners - Prem League , UEFA , FIFA , Sky etc


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## ColchesterFC (May 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but sometimes more easily said than done, especially in mob situations.

It is a very emotive subject that they are dealing with.
		
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Apologies, I could've been clearer. I was more suggesting calling out the bad behaviour afterwards, rather than being an apologist for it, not suggesting that fans should be confronting those fans at the time and possibly making the situation worse.


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## Liverbirdie (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nothing to do with trying to profit from anything - more about this level of protest cannot happen to cause a game to be called off

Also have no issue at all with people doing any sort of peaceful protest - but that wasn’t peaceful , there are plenty of videos all over social media of what was happening , and also what was being chanted by a good number outside the ground

Where was all this “fans together” etc when Bury went out of business - did Sky and Neville do anything to help them out. Those same fans protesting today “peacefully” will be at the front of the queue buying tickets and shirts helping put money into the owners pockets.

Restructuring English football imo is a pipe dream - it’s gone way beyond being able to make any meaningful changes to the sport.  Come the summer if UTD buy Haaland for example and spend £150mil on him anything about the owners will be pushed to the back of peoples minds

For something meaningful to happen it must affect the whole of the sport in Europe - wage caps , maximum transfer fees , even distribution of all Telly money , 50% of all money from the Telly rights goes to the Football league, remove the CL and have it back to the European Cup and UEFA Cup , being in foreign player restrictions, limit spending on only what a club makes , remove agent fees - we could go on but the people at the heart of the sport are as bad as the owners - Prem League , UEFA , FIFA , Sky etc
		
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You said we should get the 3 points, that is IMO trying to profit from it.

Peaceful doesnt always work. I'm not saying burn, fight and damage, but banners and hashtags wont work on their own.

Yes, we can all point fingers and engage in whatabouttery, and that will dilute the message. There is a bigger chance of a Bury not happening of we re-structure correctly.

I agree on lots of what needs to happen, but we wont get there by fans slagging off other fans, diluting the message, and getting picked off by the ones with vested interests. That is the reason why we havent been able to have a unified message and pressure group of fans for 40 years. If we did, change would happen, believe me.

Ready to burn your armchair?


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, he and Giggs were one of the first with Abramovich to open his hotel’s to NHS Staff, it was reported on 18/19 March last year.

Salford held a board meeting because he’s only 1 of 4 votes and it was discounted straight away.

Maybe some of your frustration with him could be aimed at the Big 6 Clubs whose billionaires did use the furlough scheme.

Click to expand...

It may have been reported up north Paul, it didn't get reported that I saw down here; was Abramovich widely reported up north?

My frustration has already been directed towards those owners who did use the furlough scheme, trust me.   

I'd have less of an issue with Neville if he resigned his position at Sky in protest at what their involvement has done to the game, but he seems quite happy to take the money whilst criticising everyone other than his employer.  I believe he's also misrepresenting what was proposed.


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## davemc1 (May 2, 2021)

What a goal  👏🏻


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## Tashyboy (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It may have been reported up north Paul, it didn't get reported that I saw down here; was Abramovich widely reported up north?

My frustration has already been directed towards those owners who did use the furlough scheme, trust me.  

I'd have less of an issue with Neville if he resigned his position at Sky in protest at what their involvement has done to the game, but *he seems quite happy to take the money whilst criticising everyone other than his employer.*  I believe he's also misrepresenting what was proposed.
		
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This all day 👍 as I have said many times the hypocrisy across footbal at all levels is something else.


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*The protests today were designed to cause disruption to the game , postponed etc because there was no trophy on the line - if there was a trophy on the line it wouldn’t have happened. *The Premier League should now award the game to Liverpool

Previously their protests where very low key , wearing colours and a couple of banners - but it just died away as they kept winning titles , and if they had kept winning most wouldn’t care on who owned them as long as they kept the players arriving.

This all started back in 1991 and Man Utd where the first club to take advantage of the millions on offer .

It’s funny that after they all talk about how money is ruining the sport etc - they then talk about how Man Utd will improve and the answer - spend millions on more players.

I have no idea what the answer is but I don’t think things are going to change - when your team wins 99.9% won’t care who the owner is and what their links are etc. Whether that’s US Hedge Funds , US Sports owners , Russian Oil billionaires , Middle East billionaires.

It’s too far gone to change now. And when the summer comes along social media will be awash with clubs spending millions more
		
Click to expand...

Have we both missed a trick Phil?  There was a trophy on the line; would the protest have happened if a Liverpool win wouldn't have handed City the title?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It may have been reported up north Paul, it didn't get reported that I saw down here; was Abramovich widely reported up north?

My frustration has already been directed towards those owners who did use the furlough scheme, trust me.  

I'd have less of an issue with Neville if he resigned his position at Sky in protest at what their involvement has done to the game, but he seems quite happy to take the money whilst criticising everyone other than his employer.  I believe he's also misrepresenting what was proposed.
		
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Not denying he’s a pita or agreeing with everything he says, but he has done a lot of good which can also be recognised, it was reported on BBC and Sky about what they did, and yes, Abramovich was on both as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			You said we should get the 3 points, that is IMO trying to profit from it.

Peaceful doesnt always work. I'm not saying burn, fight and damage, but banners and hashtags wont work on their own.

Yes, we can all point fingers and engage in whatabouttery, and that will dilute the message. There is a bigger chance of a Bury not happening of we re-structure correctly.

I agree on lots of what needs to happen, but we wont get there by fans slagging off other fans, diluting the message, and getting picked off by the ones with vested interests. That is the reason why we havent been able to have a unified message and pressure group of fans for 40 years. If we did, change would happen, believe me.

Ready to burn your armchair? 

Click to expand...

If peaceful doesn’t work that shouldnt ever mean that it can go beyond that 

But what do you think will work ? - the Glazers won’t sell because of what happened tonight , for H&G it was the banks that forced the sale through - if they weren’t in debt to the banks they might well still be owners of the club despite the fans protesting 

As for fans - it’s a tribal sport and it’s not going to change , fans of City for example won’t want anything to change because things are great for them and their club , same with Chelsea but at the end of the day we are all just the bottom of the ladder , unless every single fan stops buying tickets and stops putting money into the clubs and sky - what do you think will change ?

As for restructuring English football - how are they going to manage that and be able to please every single and fan , what restructuring can be actually possible when we consider the position the sport is in right now and now it’s now more about the business and the money. It’s easy to say it’s needs to change but it’s near impossible to think about how to change it - the big change was made when the Prem League was started - how can that be undone.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			This all day 👍 as I have said many times the hypocrisy across footbal at all levels is something else.
		
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On this forum as well.


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not denying he’s a pita or agreeing with everything he says, but he has done a lot of good which can also be recognised, it was reported on BBC and Sky about what they did, and yes, Abramovich was on both as well.

Click to expand...

Not denying he's done good, but he is in danger of losing any goodwill for the good he has done by continuing to bang this particular drum, presumably at his employer's behest.

You must have heard of Jones the sheep...


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## AmandaJR (May 2, 2021)

What on earth...just flicked onto the footie to see Dele Alli being subbed...the hair


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## Slime (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd be interested to know why they needed a board meeting to decide if Salford City were going to furlough staff; I'd have thought that didn't need much thinking about in his position.

*I'd also be interested to know if Neville turned his hotel over to NHS staff at the height of the crisis to save NHS staff long commutes*, like a "dangerous" football club owner from SW6 did, despite being banned from running his business in the country where he undertook this act of kindness.
		
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Yes, he did.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not denying he's done good, but he is in danger of losing any goodwill for the good he has done by continuing to bang this particular drum, presumably at his employer's behest.

You must have heard of Jones the sheep... 

Click to expand...

I normally close my ears when him and Carragher start, but today I thought Carragher come across very well, Neville as you say is becoming too emotional and is in danger of being called out.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It may have been reported up north Paul, it didn't get reported that I saw down here; was Abramovich widely reported up north?

My frustration has already been directed towards those owners who did use the furlough scheme, trust me.  

I'd have less of an issue with Neville if he resigned his position at Sky in protest at what their involvement has done to the game, *but he seems quite happy to take the money whilst criticising everyone other than his employer.  I believe he's also misrepresenting what was proposed.*

Click to expand...

Maybe it was just me but he kept implying that the clubs were leaving the English league to set up their own league ? He seemed to be getting what was proposed all wrong - or he was putting it across wrong. 

They were attempting to replace the CL as opposed to the League - all the Sky Prem money etc would still be there etc. 

In regards the furlough- I know a few proposed to use it including shamefully Liverpool ( again Neville kept bringing that up ) but did any clubs actually use it in the end ?


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I normally close my ears when him and Carragher start, but today I thought Carragher come across very well, *Neville as you say is becoming too emotional *and is in danger of being called out.
		
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He was downright rude talking to the anchor (that's not a euphemism) Dave, so much so that Mrs. BiM was moved to comment.


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## Slime (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The protests today were designed to cause disruption to the game , postponed etc because there was no trophy on the line - if there was a trophy on the line it wouldn’t have happened.* The Premier League should now award the game to Liverpool*

Click to expand...


That's brilliant, but I think it's in the wrong thread.
*Laughter - the best medicine *............... I think that's the one you're after.


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## Liverbirdie (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If peaceful doesn’t work that shouldnt ever mean that it can go beyond that

But what do you think will work ? - the Glazers won’t sell because of what happened tonight , for H&G it was the banks that forced the sale through - if they weren’t in debt to the banks they might well still be owners of the club despite the fans protesting

As for fans - it’s a tribal sport and it’s not going to change , fans of City for example won’t want anything to change because things are great for them and their club , same with Chelsea but at the end of the day we are all just the bottom of the ladder , unless every single fan stops buying tickets and stops putting money into the clubs and sky - what do you think will change ?

As for restructuring English football - how are they going to manage that and be able to please every single and fan , what restructuring can be actually possible when we consider the position the sport is in right now and now it’s now more about the business and the money. It’s easy to say it’s needs to change but it’s near impossible to think about how to change it - the big change was made when the Prem League was started - how can that be undone.
		
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Why not? Without going too far off topic, you were part of the military - is that only ever used for peaceful situations?

Chelsea fans done their bit the other week.

You can never please every single fan, now you're being daft.

If the fans unite, if the Govt gets involved in legislation etc, it cab create a critical momentum that would be hard to stop.

Or you can just give right up, but enjoy slagging all and sundry off, who tries to be at least be part of the change.

If it fails, send AC-12 in.


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe it was just me but he kept implying that the clubs were leaving the English league to set up their own league ? He seemed to be getting what was proposed all wrong - or he was putting it across wrong.

They were attempting to replace the CL as opposed to the League - all the Sky Prem money etc would still be there etc.

In regards the furlough- I know a few proposed to use it including shamefully Liverpool ( again Neville kept bringing that up ) but did any clubs actually use it in the end ?
		
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Exactly Phil; this was set up as an alternative to the Champions League because of the proposed changes, nothing to do with leaving the Premier League.  If anything, their need to stay in their respective domestic leagues was greater to preserve their stock; if they lost their Premier League standing the status of the ESL would have been hugely diminished.


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## ColchesterFC (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Exactly Phil; this was set up as an alternative to the Champions League because of the proposed changes, nothing to do with leaving the Premier League.  If anything, their need to stay in their respective domestic leagues was greater to preserve their stock; if they lost their Premier League standing the status of the ESL would have been hugely diminished.
		
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The only problem with that argument is that the clubs knew that by setting up this rival to the CL they were at risk of losing their places in their respective national leagues. If the ESL had gone ahead then those clubs would (or at least should) have lost their place in their domestic leagues.  Any that weren't aware of the implications of entering a league that wasn't approved by UEFA/FIFA etc needs to get better advisors.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

Slime said:




That's brilliant, but I think it's in the wrong thread.
*Laughter - the best medicine *............... I think that's the one you're after. 

Click to expand...

So what punishment should the club face due to the actions of the fans today then ? 



Liverbirdie said:



			Why not? Without going too far off topic, you were part of the military - is that only ever used for peaceful situations?

Chelsea fans done their bit the other week.

You can never please every single fan, now you're being daft.

If the fans unite, if the Govt gets involved in legislation etc, it cab create a critical momentum that would be hard to stop.

Or you can just give right up, but enjoy slagging all and sundry off, who tries to be at least be part of the change.

If it fails, send AC-12 in. 

Click to expand...

Military and football fans 🤷‍♂️ I don’t understand that tangent 

A peaceful protest is everyone’s right - going beyond that is breaking the law - no one is justified to do that just to remove a sport club owner 

And Chelsea fans protested peaceful and their owner acted.

Are you going to stop buying tickets ? Or sky ? BT sports to stop putting money into their pockets ? 

Government getting involved in sport ? Really - all those millions they get from the foreign owners 

And you can’t “unite all fans” because everyone will always be looking at from their own clubs perspective - it’s near impossible 

But what changes exactly would you like to see and you think can be implemented across the sport


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## fundy (May 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			The only problem with that argument is that the clubs knew that by setting up this rival to the CL they were at risk of losing their places in their respective national leagues. If the ESL had gone ahead then those clubs *would (or at least should)* have lost their place in their domestic leagues.  Any that weren't aware of the implications of entering a league that wasn't approved by UEFA/FIFA etc needs to get better advisors.
		
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clearly the clubs involved sadly were quite comfortable it was should but not would


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			The only problem with that argument is that the clubs knew that by setting up this rival to the CL they were at risk of losing their places in their respective national leagues. If the ESL had gone ahead then those clubs would (or at least should) have lost their place in their domestic leagues.  Any that weren't aware of the implications of entering a league that wasn't approved by UEFA/FIFA etc needs to get better advisors.
		
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Or they were confident/arrogant enough to believe that the domestic leagues wouldn't dare risk losing that many big names and diminishing their product?


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## Orikoru (May 2, 2021)

BALE! BALE! BALE! BALE!


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## pauljames87 (May 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			BALE! BALE! BALE! BALE!
		
Click to expand...

One too many there he didn't score 4


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## Orikoru (May 2, 2021)

I wonder if José realises he should have tried playing him yet? 😂


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## fundy (May 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			BALE! BALE! BALE! BALE!
		
Click to expand...

think youll find it was bale, bale, bale, son


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## IainP (May 2, 2021)

Is there a table of goals per minutes played?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Exactly Phil; this was set up as an alternative to the Champions League because of the proposed changes, nothing to do with leaving the Premier League.  If anything, their need to stay in their respective domestic leagues was greater to preserve their stock; if they lost their Premier League standing the status of the ESL would have been hugely diminished.
		
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Sorry mate, but to say exactly is to accept the ESL plan, remember this was never discussed or agreed with anyone else outside of themselves, they expected the PL to roll over and have their belly tickled with the promise of more cash and if given a choice PL or ESL, I believe they’d of chosen the ESL.

If then, as some believe, the PL was at risk of failing without them, who would of been held responsible? Not them, they’d be sitting pretty telling everybody “I told you so” so for that reason I believe he has a point.

As for who used Furlough, Bournemouth (initially), Liverpool (initially), Newcastle, Norwich and Spurs (initially)


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## Slime (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what punishment should the club face due to the actions of the fans today then ?
		
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Possibly the same that you suggested Liverpool faced after their fans attacked the Real Madrid team coach?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			Possibly the same that you suggested Liverpool faced after their fans attacked the Real Madrid team coach?
		
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So just deflection to another team with unrelated incident

Did that action cause the game to be postponed ? Did they throw flares at media studio ? Did they throw bottles at the police ?

There would be no doubt that if Liverpool fans or indeed any other fans had caused a game to be postponed then there would be repercussions including the opposition being awarded the game

The fans protest went beyond peaceful and caused a match to be postponed.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2021)

I’m sure on here we heard from fans of the Big 6 ( and me) that docking them points for the ESL plan was unfair on the fans and players because it was the owners at fault.

So on what planet would it be fair to the owner and players of Man Utd to, in effect, dock them 3 points by awarding the game to LPool because it was fans at fault?


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## Tashyboy (May 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I wonder if José realises he should have tried playing him yet? 😂
		
Click to expand...

I asked the question last week, why did Spurs not start with Bale and Alli against City in the league cup final. I was assured they were not match fit. They have had a good week getting fit. 😳


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## Orikoru (May 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I asked the question last week, why did Spurs not start with Bale and Alli against City in the league cup final. I was assured they were not match fit. They have had a good week getting fit. 😳
		
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It wasn't me that said that? I figure he thought Lucas's running would be more useful when we didn't have the ball against City. As for Dele he's been pony for a long while, it was a surprise to see him start today.


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## Blue in Munich (May 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry mate, *but to say exactly is to accept the ESL plan*, remember this was never discussed or agreed with anyone else outside of themselves, they expected the PL to roll over and have their belly tickled with the promise of more cash and if given a choice PL or ESL, I believe they’d of chosen the ESL.

If then, as some believe, the PL was at risk of failing without them, who would of been held responsible? Not them, they’d be sitting pretty telling everybody “I told you so” so for that reason I believe he has a point.

As for who used Furlough, Bournemouth (initially), Liverpool (initially), Newcastle, Norwich and Spurs (initially)
		
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And I do accept that was the ESL plan; they planned to leave the Champions League to form a semi closed shop super league whilst remaining in their own domestic leagues.

Whether or not they would have succeeded in achieving their plan is another matter, but for Neville to keep pushing that the primary plan was to abandon the Premier League is, I believe, incorrect.  Pillory them for what they have done by all means, but don't pillory them for something that wasn't part of the original plan.


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## Liverbirdie (May 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If peaceful doesn’t work that shouldnt ever mean that it can go beyond that

But what do you think will work ? - the Glazers won’t sell because of what happened tonight , for H&G it was the banks that forced the sale through - if they weren’t in debt to the banks they might well still be owners of the club despite the fans protesting

As for fans - it’s a tribal sport and it’s not going to change , fans of City for example won’t want anything to change because things are great for them and their club , same with Chelsea but at the end of the day we are all just the bottom of the ladder , unless every single fan stops buying tickets and stops putting money into the clubs and sky - what do you think will change ?

As for restructuring English football - how are they going to manage that and be able to please every single and fan , what restructuring can be actually possible when we consider the position the sport is in right now and now it’s now more about the business and the money. It’s easy to say it’s needs to change but it’s near impossible to think about how to change it - the big change was made when the Prem League was started - how can that be undone.
		
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Why not, get out of your ivory tower.

I certainly hope that peaceful, and intelligent pressure can be brought to bear, but if it doesnt  other pressure may work and I genuinely hope it doesnt have to come to it.

Did the banks just turn up one day and say thats it? No they didnt. The pressure was applied over many months, as well as online intelligent pressure, which in turn led to changes in the board structure and so on. Its a long tale, but the bank was the end game.

It doesnt have to be every fan, why do you persist with this?

Again, why every fan?

Were the German clubs owned by the fans 20 years ago? I dont think so. If you dont attempt anything, you'll get nowhere.


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## Tashyboy (May 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It wasn't me that said that? I figure he thought Lucas's running would be more useful when we didn't have the ball against City. As for Dele he's been pony for a long while, it was a surprise to see him start today.
		
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Nope it was deffo not you who mentioned re Bale. But a front four of Kane, Son, Kane, and Alli will get the goals to keep Spurs in the hunt.


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## Slime (May 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why not, get out of your ivory tower.

I certainly hope that peaceful, and intelligent pressure can be brought to bear, but if it doesnt  other pressure may work and I genuinely hope it doesnt have to come to it.

Did the banks just turn up one day and say thats it? No they didnt. The pressure was applied over many months, as well as online intelligent pressure, which in turn led to changes in the board structure and so on. Its a long tale, but the bank was the end game.

It doesnt have to be every fan, why do you persist with this?

Again, why every fan?

Were the German clubs owned by the fans 20 years ago? I dont think so. If you dont attempt anything, you'll get nowhere.
		
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The sound of reason.


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## Slime (May 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Nope it was deffo not you who mentioned re Bale. *But a front four of Kane, Son, Kane, and Alli will get the goals to keep Spurs in the hunt.*

Click to expand...

Two Kanes, now that would certainly help any team!


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## Slime (May 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*There would be no doubt that if Liverpool fans or indeed any other fans had caused a game to be postponed then there would be repercussions including the opposition being awarded the game*

Click to expand...

Ridiculous statement.
It's not happened before, there is no precedent, therefore there has to be doubt ......................... obviously.
Just think about what you're posting, maybe even pretend it's not Manchester United?
Measure twice, cut once.


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## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2021)

The way I see it .
If it’s the clubs fault you can’t punish the fans. = ESL
If it’s the fans fault you can’t punish the club  = protests.
So not much will happen as usual.


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## Fade and Die (May 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*There would be no doubt that if Liverpool fans or indeed any other fans had caused a game to be postponed then there would be repercussions including the opposition being awarded the game*
.
		
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This is unlikely, when West Ham had a bit of a pitch invasion against Burnley the club were fined £100K. 

But the Burnley game had customers who paid to gain admittance and were classified as club supporters.

The people who gate crashed into Old Trafford didn't pay and are classified as criminal elements. Not supporters. Therefore the club is not responsible
and no charges can be brought against it.... Bit like a burgler breaking into your house. Your not held accountable for the crime.


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## Old Skier (May 3, 2021)

Seems to me that to many are focusing on a 100 odd drunken louts running around with their cans of larger who should be sought out and punished rather than the few hundred peaceful demonstrators who did their bit and went home.

They weren’t fans in the stadium, just a bunch of hooligans wanting there faces of FB.


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## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Seems to me that to many are focusing on a 100 odd drunken louts running around with their cans of larger who should be sought out and punished rather than the few hundred peaceful demonstrators who did their bit and went home.

They weren’t fans in the stadium, just a bunch of hooligans wanting there faces of FB.
		
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Yes I agree , but it does Beg the question.
How did that many get in the ground.?
Even with match day security protocols that many people would not get through security.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			Ridiculous statement.
It's not happened before, there is no precedent, therefore there has to be doubt ......................... obviously.
Just think about what you're posting, maybe even pretend it's not Manchester United?
Measure twice, cut once.  

Click to expand...

Yesterday Man Utd fans staged a protest that turned violent , flares being thrown at people , bottles being thrown at the police which included two being injured that resulted in a football matched being abandoned 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....est-police-officers-injured-b1841059.html?amp




And your response is to deflect , point fingers at people being bias and bring in an incident that involved Liverpool - have you even condemned the incident or their actions. Nope you just continue to point at others.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 3, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree , but it does Beg the question.
How did that many get in the ground.?
Even with match day security protocols that many people would not get through security.
		
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How many police do you need at a ground when in theory there are no spectators present?

Equally there comes a point when the police have to make a judgement based on weight of numbers and the force required to keep people out. It may just have made sense to let them break through. If a mob can break into the Capitol building in Washington then they can certainly do the same to a football ground.


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## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How many police do you need at a ground when in theory there are no spectators present?

Equally there comes a point when the police have to make a judgement based on weight of numbers and the force required to keep people out. It may just have made sense to let them break through. If a mob can break into the Capitol building in Washington then they can certainly do the same to a football ground.
		
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Yes I see your point.
But just one person intent on bigger things ( god forbid) would be a massive problem.
Seems to me that if there is a smaller police presence then the clubs own security measures are not good enough.
But that could be true of any club not expecting a fans protest.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 3, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Seems to me that to many are focusing on a 100 odd drunken louts running around with their cans of larger who should be sought out and punished rather than the few hundred peaceful demonstrators who did their bit and went home.

They weren’t fans in the stadium, just a bunch of hooligans wanting there faces of FB.
		
Click to expand...

That’s just life as a whole - the minority will always be focused on if they cause any issues , the protest started peacefully and I suspect every fan was behind them in the same way people were when Chelsea fans and Arsenal fans were protesting recently - but it took a nasty turn inside the stadium and then escalated after that so their reasoning for their protest will get lost. 

Football always seems to find ways to kick itself - over the last 18 months all the good that clubs have done with Covid and NHS get ignored when players break guidelines for parties , clubs look to use the furlough scheme , then the ESL and now this.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 3, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I see your point.
But just one person intent on bigger things ( god forbid) would be a massive problem.
Seems to me that if there is a smaller police presence then the clubs own security measures are not good enough.
But that could be true of any club not expecting a fans protest.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect it comes down to how committed are the mob, what are the police/ security defending? If it's people then they will likely dig in. Just property then rightly they will only go so far. 

It's like I've been told previously on foreign business trips, if someone stops you and demands money, watch phone etc then just hand them over. Possessions can be replaced, buildings fixed. Injuries to people, possibly serious or leading to deaths, not worth it.


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## fundy (May 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



*How many police do you need at a ground when in theory there are no spectators present*?

Equally there comes a point when the police have to make a judgement based on weight of numbers and the force required to keep people out. It may just have made sense to let them break through. If a mob can break into the Capitol building in Washington then they can certainly do the same to a football ground.
		
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apart from they knew there was going to be a protest so were expecting fans to turn up


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## Lord Tyrion (May 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			apart from they knew there was going to be a protest so were expecting fans to turn up
		
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I guess it then comes down to operational decisions. How many did they expect, would it be peaceful, did they expect it just to stay outside or was a breach openly talked about?

Anyway, it's only Old Trafford. Why defend that 😆.


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## Tashyboy (May 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m sure on here we heard from fans of the Big 6 ( and me) that docking them points for the ESL plan was unfair on the fans and players because it was the owners at fault.

*So on what planet would it be fair to the owner and players of Man Utd to, in effect, dock them 3 points by awarding the game to LPool because it was fans at fault?*

Click to expand...



The planet that gets Liverpool 3 points that helps them qualify for the champs league. It’s not a planet that I suspect most Liverpool fans are on though. 👍


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## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The planet that gets Liverpool 3 points that helps them qualify for the champs league. It’s not a planet that I suspect most Liverpool fans are on though. 👍
		
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Yes your right Tash I would not want to qualify like that.
But money fines don’t work at this level. Don’t know the answer!

But struggling to understand how so many fans got in the ground.
It’s my understanding the Police are only responsible for outside the ground. 
Clubs are responsible inside . ( ready to be educated)
It’s like someone opened a gate to let them in.
Maybe the club should not turn off its social media ?
Something is not quite right.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 3, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why not, get out of your ivory tower.

I certainly hope that peaceful, and intelligent pressure can be brought to bear, but if it doesnt  other pressure may work and I genuinely hope it doesnt have to come to it.

Did the banks just turn up one day and say thats it? No they didnt. The pressure was applied over many months, as well as online intelligent pressure, which in turn led to changes in the board structure and so on. Its a long tale, but the bank was the end game.

It doesnt have to be every fan, why do you persist with this?

Again, why every fan?

*Were the German clubs owned by the fans 20 years ago? I dont think so. If you dont attempt anything, you'll get nowhere.*

Click to expand...


20 years ago how much would it cost to buy a top level club

Right now the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool , Man Utd are valued at above £3bn - so how much would that mean for “fans” to gain a controlling stake in a Prem club to bring in what happens in Germany

And even then the 50+1 is far from perfect - how many clubs challenge Bayern ? 15 titles in the last 20 years and the last 8 in a row , that’s not great 

The protest the Man Utd fans will make little difference to their owners- I think it’s wrong that leveraged buy outs are allowed and it’s shocking the level of debt that is against the club but as we saw with FFP - it’s toothless. It would be great if the sport brought in cast iron financial regulations to ensure that leveraged buyouts can’t happen but the governing bodies don’t care as long as they get their share of the coin

If fans really want to hit their owners hard then hit them where it hurts - the pockets , don’t buy tickets , don’t buy merchandise, don’t buy subscription- the whole fan base stop putting money into the club and their pockets - that’s what would wake them up and get them sold

And then regulate the spending within the game - agent fees , transfer fees , wage caps etc - reign it all back.

But it’s such a shame that people didn’t stand up to help clubs like Bury and also why the governing bodies don’t react in the same way to racist behaviour towards players etc


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## Tashyboy (May 3, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes your right Tash I would not want to qualify like that.
But money fines don’t work at this level. Don’t know the answer!

But struggling to understand how so many fans got in the ground.
It’s my understanding the Police are only responsible for outside the ground.
Clubs are responsible inside . ( ready to be educated)
It’s like someone opened a gate to let them in.
Maybe the club should not turn off its social media ?
Something is not quite right.
		
Click to expand...

I tend to think football is at a bit of a cross rds Re most clubs.

As i mentioned as a City fan I am happy. Yes the recent super league leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. But look at Utd. I read a piece the other day re how much debt the Glaziers saddled Utd with when buying them. It then showed how much they still owe. It then showed how much they have paid themselves since buying the club. Sweet mother and the wee donkey. No wonder the Utd fans are bogged off. But don’t forget it was the prem league that found the Glaziers “ fit and proper” to buy the club. Sweet mother and the wee donkey. All this time utd fans saying City are doing it wrong by using outside money to invest in the club. So putting money in is wrong, but taking money out is wrong. 🤔 wee donkey. 
It seems that fans are now an inconvenient afterthought who are only there to empty there wallets on match day. It seems enough is enough.Well at Utd anyway. 
I find it interesting that Neville has a massive rant about Utd/ Glaziers re the super league, no dialogue with fans. Yet he uses the very platform Sky/ his employer who were buying into the super league to air his distaste in the way billionaires are killing football. Talking about Billionaires in football, anyone googled who is a Major stake owner in Salford City a club Neville has invested in. None other than Peter Lim, who also owns Valencia. And there in lies a lot of the problems within football. Hypocrisy. Be it football clubs, Neville, Sky, billionaires and even fans, the whole of football is riddled with it. Ave said it before and al say it again. The beautiful game is looking pig ugly.


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## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I tend to think football is at a bit of a cross rds Re most clubs.

As i mentioned as a City fan I am happy. Yes the recent super league leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. But look at Utd. I read a piece the other day re how much debt the Glaziers saddled Utd with when buying them. It then showed how much they still owe. It then showed how much they have paid themselves since buying the club. Sweet mother and the wee donkey. No wonder the Utd fans are bogged off. But don’t forget it was the prem league that found the Glaziers “ fit and proper” to buy the club. Sweet mother and the wee donkey. All this time utd fans saying City are doing it wrong by using outside money to invest in the club. So putting money in is wrong, but taking money out is wrong. 🤔 wee donkey.
It seems that fans are now an inconvenient afterthought who are only there to empty there wallets on match day. It seems enough is enough.Well at Utd anyway.
I find it interesting that Neville has a massive rant about Utd/ Glaziers re the super league, no dialogue with fans. Yet he uses the very platform Sky/ his employer who were buying into the super league to air his distaste in the way billionaires are killing football. Talking about Billionaires in football, anyone googled who is a Major stake owner in Salford City a club Neville has invested in. None other than Peter Lim, who also owns Valencia. And there in lies a lot of the problems within football. Hypocrisy. Be it football clubs, Neville, Sky, billionaires and even fans, the whole of football is riddled with it. Ave said it before and al say it again. The beautiful game is looking pig ugly.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but both models look wrong on all levels.
Doors open and the horse has bolted .
It’s just business now.


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## Slime (May 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yesterday Man Utd fans staged a protest that turned violent , flares being thrown at people , bottles being thrown at the police which included two being injured that resulted in a football matched being abandoned

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-protest-police-officers-injured-b1841059.html?amp

View attachment 36440


And your response is to deflect , point fingers at people being bias and bring in an incident that involved Liverpool - have you even condemned the incident or their actions. Nope you just continue to point at others.
		
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You seriously think I'm not disgusted by the violent minority, really?


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## Old Skier (May 3, 2021)

Report coming in that MC fans doing a Utd, don't like to be outdone up north.


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## Old Skier (May 3, 2021)

Slime said:




You seriously think I'm not disgusted by the violent minority, really?
		
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Id hope that most people would be disgusted by the violent thuggery carried out on a police officer whether its a minority or a full blown riot.


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## Tashyboy (May 3, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Report coming in that MC fans doing a Utd, don't like to be outdone up north.
		
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If they are they will do it with a Holland’s pie in there hands.


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## Tashyboy (May 3, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but both models look wrong on all levels.
Doors open and the horse has bolted .
*It’s just business now*.
		
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This, Sheik Mansoor  bought a football club and now has a global business.


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## pauljames87 (May 3, 2021)

Onto actual football rather than 2 pointless teams lol 

Good result today 

Should Have put it to bed tho. Missed so many 

Very attacking line up 

On we roll


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## pendodave (May 3, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Onto actual football rather than 2 pointless teams lol 

Good result today 

Should Have put it to bed tho. Missed so many 

Very attacking line up 

On we roll
		
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I can't help thinking we'd do better against the decent teams if Moyes had the self-belief to have a go like this. Leeds have done just fine with this approach. 

It irks me to say it, but spurs' run-in looks pretty powderpuff. It would be pretty unpalatable if Bale stays fit and they sneak in at the death.


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## pauljames87 (May 3, 2021)

pendodave said:



			I can't help thinking we'd do better against the decent teams if Moyes had the self-belief to have a go like this. Leeds have done just fine with this approach. 

It irks me to say it, but spurs' run-in looks pretty powderpuff. It would be pretty unpalatable if Bale stays fit and they sneak in at the death.
		
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I see us finishing 6th

Liverpool have got such an easy run in. Even they can't bugger it up 

Chelsea have the hardest of the lot

We should be using fornals or lanzini more in central midfield 

Made such a difference tonight rather than two defensive midfielders


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## Fade and Die (May 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I see us finishing 6th

Liverpool have got such an easy run in. Even they can't bugger it up

Chelsea have the hardest of the lot

We should be using fornals or lanzini more in central midfield

Made such a difference tonight rather than two defensive midfielders
		
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Tbh I looked at our lineup and thought we’d get bullied off the park. But that game should have been all over by half time!

Fornals & Lanzini were excellent in their roles. And has there ever been a better vfm signing than Coufal?


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## pauljames87 (May 4, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Tbh I looked at our lineup and thought we’d get bullied off the park. But that game should have been all over by half time!

Fornals & Lanzini were excellent in their roles. And has there ever been a better vfm signing than Coufal?
		
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Very well played by Moyes , throwing almost every fit attacking player into the starting line up 

Agree about coufal . 5 million? That's a steal 

Big game at the weekend with Everton


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## Rlburnside (May 4, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Report coming in that MC fans doing a Utd, don't like to be outdone up north.
		
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I’d be surprised if they were fans don’t care where the moneys coming from when their getting trophy’s. 

Then again maybe there’s a few fans that don’t like dirty money.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Very well played by Moyes , throwing almost every fit attacking player into the starting line up

Agree about coufal . 5 million? That's a steal

*Big game at the weekend with Everton*

Click to expand...

Sadly, I'm not sure it is. At least it's at your place so we might give you a bit of a game. 

Do you think we could offer to play all of our remaining games away now? Save on fuel and hotels for the other teams?


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## Jensen (May 4, 2021)

pendodave said:



			I can't help thinking we'd do better against the decent teams if Moyes had the self-belief to have a go like this. Leeds have done just fine with this approach.

It irks me to say it, but spurs' run-in looks pretty powderpuff. It would be pretty unpalatable if Bale stays fit and they sneak in at the death.
		
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COYS 😄👍


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## pauljames87 (May 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sadly, I'm not sure it is. At least it's at your place so we might give you a bit of a game. 

Do you think we could offer to play all of our remaining games away now? Save on fuel and hotels for the other teams?
		
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Always tough against Everton 

Very rarely do we win so a league double would be tough

No more of the "top 6" to play tho so in theory Moyes should do better lol


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## Tashyboy (May 4, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			I’d be surprised if they were fans don’t care where the moneys coming from when their getting trophy’s.

Then again maybe there’s a few fans that don’t like dirty money.
		
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If you had Followed City for 50 odd years. Seen Swales, franny lee and others running the club. If you had seen 20 rubbish managers come and go at a time when our nearest neighbours were dominating english football, playing attractive football. You want a club that's run better. No fans that I know of are bothered about dirty money. They want the club run right. In that sense , i do not know of a club who's fans are happier than Citys. And if they are ? Leicester, etc. Then fantastic.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If you had Followed City for 50 odd years. Seen Swales, franny lee and others running the club. If you had seen 20 rubbish managers come and go at a time when our nearest neighbours were dominating english football, playing attractive football. You want a club that's run better. No fans that I know of are bothered about dirty money. They want the club run right. In that sense , i do not know of a club who's fans are happier than Citys. And if they are ? Leicester, etc. Then fantastic.
		
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There isn’t a Club whose owners are whiter than white, but that doesn’t fit the narrative of those who aren’t happy seeing City gate crash the upper echelons.


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## Rlburnside (May 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If you had Followed City for 50 odd years. Seen Swales, franny lee and others running the club. If you had seen 20 rubbish managers come and go at a time when our nearest neighbours were dominating english football, playing attractive football. You want a club that's run better. No fans that I know of are bothered about dirty money. They want the club run right. In that sense , i do not know of a club who's fans are happier than Citys. And if they are ? Leicester, etc. Then fantastic.
		
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Yes I agree 100% with you , but it still is coming from a man and country that is taking money out of their own country and not looking after their own people and investing it in a country they have affiliation to, same with Chelsea, why can’t they invest money in there own country’s and benefit their own people


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			There isn’t a Club whose owners are whiter than white, but that doesn’t fit the narrative of those who aren’t happy seeing City gate crash the upper echelons.
		
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Well at least your half right for once.

I have no problem people gate-crashing the upper echolons, and long may it continue, but throwing 1-2 billion at a club that guarantees winning is not sport.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well at least your half right for once.

I have no problem people gate-crashing the upper echolons, and long may it continue, but throwing 1-2 billion at a club that guarantees winning is not sport.
		
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LPool spent over 1.5 Billion in between League wins. I guess that money all came from nice places or is different because it was over a long period?

Stand by, here comes the nett spend argument.


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## fundy (May 4, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Tbh I looked at our lineup and thought we’d get bullied off the park. But that game should have been all over by half time!

Fornals & Lanzini were excellent in their roles. And has there ever been a better vfm signing than Coufal?
		
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Looked like Fornals has been played out of position every other game  thought he was excellent and ran the show along with Benrahma going forward. Slight worry not killing off games is going to come back to haunt you if not careful though (the 2 points we nicked may already do so)


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## pokerjoke (May 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			LPool spent over 1.5 Billion in between League wins. I guess that money all came from nice places or is different because it was over a long period?

Stand by, here comes the nett spend argument.

Click to expand...

Unbelievable isn’t it,that’s the same amount the Glaziers have taken out of Utd.
No wonder fans are in uproar.
Must also say I don’t condone violent protests.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2021)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....t-unified-voice-against-breakaway-league.html

Gary Neville once again - what exactly is it he thinks he can do , earlier in the week Klopp said that things should calm down a little to allow things to settle and then discuss things - Neville has been doing nothing but shrieking and shouting whenever he is given the chance about the owners and the money - all from the platform of the biggest issue in the sport. 

And here is Simon Jordan’s take 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1389506863272767495


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			LPool spent over 1.5 Billion in between League wins. I guess that money all came from nice places or is different because it was over a long period?

Stand by, here comes the nett spend argument.

Click to expand...

Yes, nett spend and having to sell your best players to the oil barons to try and keep up with them.

I see you dont put in Citys recent spend or chelseas' spend over 1/3rd or half that period to show a comparison.

For a century, generally clubs spend what they earnt and it was a reasonable playing field with many, many clubs winning trophies. Now it is a lot less different clubs winning trophies.

You have an argument like a donut made out of swiss cheese.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, nett spend and having to sell your best players to the oil barons to try and keep up with them.

I see you dont put in Citys recent spend or chelseas' spend over 1/3rd or half that period to show a comparison.

For a century, generally clubs spend what they earnt and it was a reasonable playing field with many, many clubs winning trophies. Now it is a lot less different clubs winning trophies.

You have an argument like a donut made out of swiss cheese.
		
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Argument again Pete? Maybe a debate or different point of view, I just find it strange LPool fans like to take the morale high ground when it comes to spending.

The charts are always the ones that show the time periods that suit the Lpool point of view. First was the moan about Blackburn, then Utd, then Chelsea, now City.

We know how it worked in the past, but we don’t live their anymore, everyone agrees it’s a business not a sport and looking forward, why should the supporters of another Club be denied the fairytale?


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2021)

I honestly dont think its worth arguing with you any more, cos you just make crap up. Certain things are subjective and opinions, but some arent, or heavily biased.

1. I think it was mainly man U fans who moaned about Blackburn.

2. Liverpool's spening over 30 years isnt comparable to Chelsea's and city's over even half that time.

3. What "charts" are these - did Jimmy Saviile or david Kid Jensen do them?

4. We havent complained about United's spend, as self-generated, so again, making stuff up.

5. No, not everyone sees it as a business and most still class it as a sport, but it's going down.

6. A fairytale??????? Ok, sleeping beauty, who needs poisoned apples, mirrors and old crones - here's 3 million pounds, but I'll get my brother's company to give you it in non-traceable magic beans, and go and get a face lift, bum lift, boob job, them big stupid lips, you'll be fine. Even Chelsea and City fans know it's no fairytale. They are/have massively enjoyed it, no doubt, but a fairytale - behave.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I honestly dont think its worth arguing with you any more, cos you just make crap up. Certain things are subjective and opinions, but some arent, or heavily biased.

1. I think it was mainly man U fans who moaned about Blackburn.

2. Liverpool's spening over 30 years isnt comparable to Chelsea's and city's over even half that time.

3. What "charts" are these - did Jimmy Saviile or david Kid Jensen do them?

4. We havent complained about United's spend, as self-generated, so again, making stuff up.

5. No, not everyone sees it as a business and most still class it as a sport, but it's going down.

6. A fairytale??????? Ok, sleeping beauty, who needs poisoned apples, mirrors and old crones - here's 3 million pounds, but I'll get my brother's company to give you it in non-traceable magic beans, and go and get a face lift, bum lift, boob job, them big stupid lips, you'll be fine. Even Chelsea and City fans know it's no fairytale. They are/have massively enjoyed it, no doubt, but a fairytale - behave.
		
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Let’s get somethings straight, it’s just 2 blokes “chewing the fat” giving their opinions on what they’ve seen and experienced. We happen to be a Red and a Blue, so the points are about each other, if I was discussing with BIM the points would be about Chelsea, if it was Pokerjoke it would be about Utd, never, nowhere have I said it’s only LPool fans who moan.

I’m also old enough to remember when these different Clubs won the League and who made comments.

Utd at their peak were constantly slated for their spending and fergie getting stick.

Whether we like it or not, it’s a business and Football as a sport is lost.

Fairytale, absolutely, speak to the Newcastle fans and their proposed take over.

I think this bloke did the chart! He fixed it for yous.


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## Orikoru (May 4, 2021)

Football fans are fickle anyway. Spurs fans on the Facebook groups wind me up. They're always moaning about City and Chelsea buying trophies, as you do - but in the same breath it's all "ENIC OUT" because they won't spend the same money - so presumably they'd be delighted if we were bought buy an Arab sheikh and brought in Mbappe tomorrow. It's hypocritical. Personally I tend not to moan about the teams that spend big, that's just how it is. It goes in circles - Blackburn did it, but look where they are now. Leeds started doing it, but for them it backfired and they were out of the top flight for 20 years. For other clubs it has worked for the time being. But honestly there are bigger things to worry about. I think Levy has done well for us on the budget that he's presumably been asked to work to, but if someone bought the club and pumped billions in, I'd be fine with that too. Whatever happens happens really.


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## fundy (May 4, 2021)

Roma fans turn to "suffer" Mourinho now I see

Who do spursy fans want to replace him next year?


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## Orikoru (May 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			Roma fans turn to "suffer" Mourinho now I see

Who do spursy fans want to replace him next year?
		
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If I go in order of the Oddchecker favourites list - Rodgers is the favourite, I thought he'd as good as ruled himself out of it. Nuno seems like 2+2=4 kind of suggestion I suppose. Wouldn't hate or love that, I think it would be ok. Parker being 6/1 is disappointing, I don't really think he's achieved anything yet. I don't know anything about Rangnick, I don't mind admitting. Graham Potter is a name that intrigues me, I think he seems like a pretty innovative coach and I'd like to see what he can do. Going down the list a bit, I wouldn't mind Benitez although maybe a bit safe and boring, and probably not a long term view. Howe is only 20/1, I would probably cry if they appointed him - most overrated manager of the last decade in my opinion. The Ajax manager is still 20/1 even though I think he just signed a new contract with them. I would hope we don't go for Sarri, I don't really like his personality. Roberto Martinez is 25/1... please God no. Another shout for overrated managers.


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## fundy (May 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If I go in order of the Oddchecker favourites list - Rodgers is the favourite, I thought he'd as good as ruled himself out of it. Nuno seems like 2+2=4 kind of suggestion I suppose. Wouldn't hate or love that, I think it would be ok. Parker being 6/1 is disappointing, I don't really think he's achieved anything yet. I don't know anything about Rangnick, I don't mind admitting. Graham Potter is a name that intrigues me, I think he seems like a pretty innovative coach and I'd like to see what he can do. Going down the list a bit, I wouldn't mind Benitez although maybe a bit safe and boring, and probably not a long term view. Howe is only 20/1, I would probably cry if they appointed him - most overrated manager of the last decade in my opinion. The Ajax manager is still 20/1 even though I think he just signed a new contract with them. I would hope we don't go for Sarri, I don't really like his personality. Roberto Martinez is 25/1... please God no. Another shout for overrated managers.
		
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seems like a lot of dont wants and no real strong want, Potter an interesting one especially based on Brighton xG numbers as youd hope Kane (if you can keep him) would turn those into actual goals, or is he just the current flavour of the mth

what about Moyes? prize him away from West Ham?

no ex-Spurs players you fancy in the role?


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			seems like a lot of dont wants and no real strong want, Potter an interesting one especially based on Brighton xG numbers as youd hope Kane (if you can keep him) would turn those into actual goals, or is he just the current flavour of the mth

what about Moyes? prize him away from West Ham?

no ex-Spurs players you fancy in the role?
		
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I thought Hoddles name would be in there.


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## Piece (May 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If I go in order of the Oddchecker favourites list - Rodgers is the favourite, I thought he'd as good as ruled himself out of it. Nuno seems like 2+2=4 kind of suggestion I suppose. Wouldn't hate or love that, I think it would be ok. Parker being 6/1 is disappointing, I don't really think he's achieved anything yet. I don't know anything about Rangnick, I don't mind admitting. Graham Potter is a name that intrigues me, I think he seems like a pretty innovative coach and I'd like to see what he can do. Going down the list a bit, I wouldn't mind Benitez although maybe a bit safe and boring, and probably not a long term view. Howe is only 20/1, I would probably cry if they appointed him - most overrated manager of the last decade in my opinion. The Ajax manager is still 20/1 even though I think he just signed a new contract with them. I would hope we don't go for Sarri, I don't really like his personality. Roberto Martinez is 25/1... please God no. Another shout for overrated managers.
		
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Thierry Henry?


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## Orikoru (May 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			seems like a lot of dont wants and no real strong want, Potter an interesting one especially based on Brighton xG numbers as youd hope Kane (if you can keep him) would turn those into actual goals, or is he just the current flavour of the mth

what about Moyes? prize him away from West Ham?

no ex-Spurs players you fancy in the role?
		
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If you really look at that Brighton squad on paper I think Potter has done superbly to get them playing decent football and be pretty well clear of relegation. I would like to see how he'd do with (arguably) better players. I don't know what ex-Spurs players are in management? No I wouldn't really want Moyes, he's not really being touted in the odds anyway. I think Nuno would be fine, similar to when we got Poch who had done well at another Premier League team. Nuno has been scuppered by not having a striker, so he'll already be used to that when we sell Kane and don't replace him.


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## pauljames87 (May 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If you really look at that Brighton squad on paper I think Potter has done superbly to get them playing decent football and be pretty well clear of relegation. I would like to see how he'd do with (arguably) better players. I don't know what ex-Spurs players are in management? No I wouldn't really want Moyes, he's not really being touted in the odds anyway. I think Nuno would be fine, similar to when we got Poch who had done well at another Premier League team. Nuno has been scuppered by not having a striker, so he'll already be used to that when we sell Kane and don't replace him. 

Click to expand...

I don't want Moyes gone but far too many people turn their noses up at home, very good manager

Should never have been released from contract first time around for us 

Always wanted him to stay


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## fundy (May 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought Hoddles name would be in there.
		
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not sure hell ever go back to mgmt now after his health scare, got it far easier at BT sport too


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## Orikoru (May 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't want Moyes gone but far too many people turn their noses up at home, very good manager

Should never have been released from contract first time around for us

Always wanted him to stay
		
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Don't get me wrong, I'd sooner have him over someone like Parker who's done next to nothing as a manager. I just didn't really consider him as I don't think he's an option. I guess he's just a bit of a boring bloke, not very exciting, but he certainly sets his teams up well.


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## Orikoru (May 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			not sure hell ever go back to mgmt now after his health scare, got it far easier at BT sport too
		
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I would assume the same. He's surely retired from club management.


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			not sure hell ever go back to mgmt now after his health scare, got it far easier at BT sport too
		
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Yes probably but I quite liked him as a manager.


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## Rlburnside (May 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Football fans are fickle anyway. Spurs fans on the Facebook groups wind me up. They're always moaning about City and Chelsea buying trophies, as you do - but in the same breath it's all "ENIC OUT" because they won't spend the same money - so presumably they'd be delighted if we were bought buy an Arab sheikh and brought in Mbappe tomorrow. It's hypocritical. Personally I tend not to moan about the teams that spend big, that's just how it is. It goes in circles - Blackburn did it, but look where they are now. Leeds started doing it, but for them it backfired and they were out of the top flight for 20 years. For other clubs it has worked for the time being. But honestly there are bigger things to worry about. I think Levy has done well for us on the budget that he's presumably been asked to work to, but if someone bought the club and pumped billions in, I'd be fine with that too. Whatever happens happens really.
		
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I also think Levy’s done ok for us very astute and overseen one of the best grounds in Europe, maybe could have given Poch a bit longer. 

The only people that would probably buy the club would be overseas investors something I wouldn’t like to see. 

I would like to see no foreign owners in English football but that’s never going to happen now, 50+1 would be good but can’t see that happening either.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If you really look at that Brighton squad on paper I think Potter has done superbly to get them playing decent football and be pretty well clear of relegation. I would like to see how he'd do with (arguably) better players. I don't know what ex-Spurs players are in management? No I wouldn't really want Moyes, he's not really being touted in the odds anyway. I think Nuno would be fine, similar to when we got Poch who had done well at another Premier League team. Nuno has been scuppered by not having a striker, so he'll already be used to that when we sell Kane and don't replace him. 

Click to expand...

Potter is a half decent striker away from having Brighton in comfortable mid table. They are a good team, assembled on a budget. The two slight worries are his obsession with playing from the back, something common amongst many managers now, and his inability so far to get that striker. It may be that money prevents the latter but it is glaring weakness in the team. At Spurs he would have Kane and Son to work with, problems over on that front. He would be a bold choice for you but if I was a Spurs fan I'd be happy with it.

The Wolves manager could be a strong contender for you, a good manger used to the league already.

I don't understand the fixation with getting ex-players in. Rarely works.

It is an interesting one for you. The good news for the next guy in is that the squad is good and he can only improve the atmosphere after Jose.


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## Orikoru (May 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Potter is a half decent striker away from having Brighton in comfortable mid table. They are a good team, assembled on a budget. The two slight worries are his obsession with playing from the back, something common amongst many managers now, and his inability so far to get that striker. It may be that money prevents the latter but it is glaring weakness in the team. At Spurs he would have Kane and Son to work with, problems over on that front. He would be a bold choice for you but if I was a Spurs fan I'd be happy with it.

The Wolves manager could be a strong contender for you, a good manger used to the league already.

I don't understand the fixation with getting ex-players in. Rarely works.

It is an interesting one for you. The good news for the next guy in is that the squad is good and he can only improve the atmosphere after Jose.
		
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Regarding playing out from the back, it's just a personnel thing. I don't like managers who force it open the players, but I like to see it done when it's actually on. We have Toby who's good on the ball, and Dier would have become a good ball-playing centre back if we'd have actually played him there as a youngster instead of wasting our time playing him in midfield. I think Lloris always struggled with it though and that's why it fell down. Superb keeper, not so good with the ball at his feet. But when you force it, the other team knows you're doing it every time and just press you high. I never understand why managers do that. Anyway, whoever comes in I hope their first task will be to bring in a good centre back.


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## fundy (May 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Regarding playing out from the back, it's just a personnel thing. I don't like managers who force it open the players, but I like to see it done when it's actually on. We have Toby who's good on the ball, and Dier would have become a good ball-playing centre back if we'd have actually played him there as a youngster instead of wasting our time playing him in midfield. I think Lloris always struggled with it though and that's why it fell down. Superb keeper, not so good with the ball at his feet. But when you force it, the other team knows you're doing it every time and just press you high. I never understand why managers do that. Anyway, whoever comes in I hope their first task will be to bring in a good centre back.
		
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first job will be to hold on to the crown jewels of Kane and Son surely?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Regarding playing out from the back, it's just a personnel thing. I don't like managers who force it open the players, but I like to see it done when it's actually on. We have Toby who's good on the ball, and Dier would have become a good ball-playing centre back if we'd have actually played him there as a youngster instead of wasting our time playing him in midfield. I think Lloris always struggled with it though and that's why it fell down. Superb keeper, not so good with the ball at his feet. But when you force it, the other team knows you're doing it every time and just press you high. I never understand why managers do that. Anyway, whoever comes in I hope their first task will be to bring in a good centre back.
		
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I'm okay with it but not when it becomes an obsession. At that point you become a liability. If you want to see all that is wrong with it then watch the first 10 minutes of Everton v Arsenal from the other week, no more I'm not that cruel. Everton, normally quite cautious, pushed 5 or so players right up the top of the pitch. Arsenal still kept passing it around the back and refused to play it up quicker. We should have got a couple in those opening spells, they were there for the taking. Basically, aim for it but also accept that at time you need to miss out the defence, maybe even the midfield. For nothing else it stops the opposition throwing half the team forward with no sense of jepoardy. If teams do it without exception they become predictable and easy to play against.

Rant over .

You don't need much of a tweak and there are plenty of good centre halves that could solve your problem.


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## fundy (May 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm okay with it but not when it becomes an obsession. At that point you become a liability. If you want to see all that is wrong with it then watch the first 10 minutes of Everton v Arsenal from the other week, no more I'm not that cruel. Everton, normally quite cautious, pushed 5 or so players right up the top of the pitch. Arsenal still kept passing it around the back and refused to play it up quicker. We should have got a couple in those opening spells, they were there for the taking. Basically, aim for it but also accept that at time you need to miss out the defence, maybe even the midfield. For nothing else it stops the opposition throwing half the team forward with no sense of jepoardy. If teams do it without exception they become predictable and easy to play against.

Rant over .

You don't need much of a tweak and there are plenty of good centre halves that could solve your problem.
		
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theres definitely a rant from our side for those 10 minutes too!!!!!!!!


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## Orikoru (May 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			first job will be to hold on to the crown jewels of Kane and Son surely?
		
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I think Son will stay, and with Kane it won't have much to do with the manager, he'll make his decision on other factors I should think. What manager could we actually bring in that would change his thinking?


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## fundy (May 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think Son will stay, and with Kane it won't have much to do with the manager, he'll make his decision on other factors I should think. What manager could we actually bring in that would change his thinking?
		
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ah yeah youve already tried that approach with Jose 

Kane situ is interesting, will see just how hard Levy wants to play it this summer or whether its time to cash in and let him go. Depends whos trying to buy and at what price no doubt. Will Levy stick to his promise of not selling to another English club? If so doesnt leave many options that can afford him (PSG if they sell Mbappe maybe)


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## Orikoru (May 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			ah yeah youve already tried that approach with Jose 

Kane situ is interesting, will see just how hard Levy wants to play it this summer or whether its time to cash in and let him go. Depends whos trying to buy and at what price no doubt. Will Levy stick to his promise of not selling to another English club? If so doesnt leave many options that can afford him (PSG if they sell Mbappe maybe)
		
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Exactly, that backfired. The only one who would tempt Kane into staying would be if we got Poch to come back!

Yeah, I can almost see him going to PSG, with the Poch link as well, I just think it would be a disappointing move to him. Easy league title, sure, but is that a proper achievement to leave Spurs for? I'm sure he'd prefer to stay in England, and if Levy doesn't sell we risk losing him for nothing later on.


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## Pin-seeker (May 4, 2021)

If only every club did things the right way/the Liverpool way 🙄🤮


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			first job will be to hold on to the crown jewels of Kane and Son surely?
		
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That’s the Fluffers job .


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2021)

Could do with a yellow ball in the City game.
PSG look very rattled. I can see a few cards flying around.


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## ColchesterFC (May 4, 2021)

Wasn't sure whether to post this here or start a new thread but as it's PL related I figured it could be discussed here. 

I'm following the Man City v PSG game on the BBC Sport website and someone has suggested that Riyad Mahrez is the best African footballer to play in the PL, which got me thinking about others from Africa and also from other continents. I think that Salah, Yaya Toure and Drogba have to be part of the discussion for best African player in the PL. 

Son stands out as a candidate for best player from Asia, but apart from Park Ji-Sung I was struggling to think of many other high profile names from Asia. 

Best ever player from Europe is bound to open a can of worms with so many players to choose from such as Schmeichel, Bergkamp, Henry, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo (although he probably reached his peak after he left), Viera, Stam, Zola, Kompany and several others. 

For the south American players I've got Tevez, Suarez, Aguero.

Australia, it's either Cahill, Viduka or Kewell.

So have at it. Are there any obvious additions that I have missed? Or who would be your best ever player from each continent?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Wasn't sure whether to post this here or start a new thread but as it's PL related I figured it could be discussed here.

I'm following the Man City v PSG game on the BBC Sport website and someone has suggested that Riyad Mahrez is the best African footballer to play in the PL, which got me thinking about others from Africa and also from other continents. I think that Salah, Yaya Toure and Drogba have to be part of the discussion for best African player in the PL.

Son stands out as a candidate for best player from Asia, but apart from Park Ji-Sung I was struggling to think of many other high profile names from Asia.

Best ever player from Europe is bound to open a can of worms with so many players to choose from such as Schmeichel, Bergkamp, Henry, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo (although he probably reached his peak after he left), Viera, Stam, Zola, Kompany and several others.

For the south American players I've got Tevez, Suarez, Aguero.

Australia, it's either Cahill, Viduka or Kewell.

So have at it. Are there any obvious additions that I have missed? Or who would be your best ever player from each continent?
		
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Great questions - Prem League only 

Africa - Drogba I think just shades it over Toure and Salah 

Asia - Son just beats Park 

Australia - Cahill 

South America - Suarez just shading Aguero 

North America - Friedal 

European- Henry


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## fundy (May 4, 2021)

Drogba, Bergkamp, Son, Cahill, Aguerro and Dempsey for me


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Let’s get somethings straight, it’s just 2 blokes “chewing the fat” giving their opinions on what they’ve seen and experienced. We happen to be a Red and a Blue, so the points are about each other, if I was discussing with BIM the points would be about Chelsea, if it was Pokerjoke it would be about Utd, never, nowhere have I said it’s only LPool fans who moan.

I’m also old enough to remember when these different Clubs won the League and who made comments.

Utd at their peak were constantly slated for their spending and fergie getting stick.

Whether we like it or not, it’s a business and Football as a sport is lost.

Fairytale, absolutely, speak to the Newcastle fans and their proposed take over.

I think this bloke did the chart! He fixed it for yous.

View attachment 36456

Click to expand...

You hardly ever talk about Everton, a bit like most blues, you love talking about us. Most of the conversations are general football related, or us, so again, don't know where your getting that from.

Football is lost in many ways, but whilst there's still hope of the oilys not winning everything, I'll keep my interest.

Again, throwing billions at something isnt a fairytale. Leicester winning the prem was (Blackburn's wasn't), Wimbledon beating us in 1988 in the cup final,  Forest winning two European cups, Greece winning the euros.

God knows what ladybird books you read - the princess and the FFP, the elves and the oilmaker?

BTW the Saville photos have him in about 10 different kits, so hardly original.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			You hardly ever talk about Everton, a bit like most blues, you love talking about us. Most of the conversations are general football related, or us, so again, don't know where your getting that from.

Football is lost in many ways, but whilst there's still hope of the oilys not winning everything, I'll keep my interest.

Again, throwing billions at something isnt a fairytale. Leicester winning the prem was (Blackburn's wasn't), Wimbledon beating us in 1988 in the cup final,  Forest winning two European cups, Greece winning the euros.

God knows what ladybird books you read - the princess and the FFP, the elves and the oilmaker?

BTW the Saville photos have him in about 10 different kits, so hardly original.

Click to expand...

Seeing as how today the conversation was about Clubs spending billions to win things, we don’t fit the bill, we aren’t in the upper echelons either.

Now if the talk is about Clubs wasting money, then we do fit the bill, infact we are the poster boys for it. I post my honest opinion on Everton games, feel free to come back at me, I don’t believe I comment on Lpool games apart from complimenting Klopp, but you found an issue that didn’t exist with that.

Recent discussions have been around the “Big 6” which we aren’t, so not sure what discussion you want about Everton, but fill your boots.

Also have a look at some of the most vocal supporters on here? My guess is Lpool fans, so if they give it, they have to be prepared to take it back.

Leicester got in to the PL by breaking the spending rules in the Championship, but we’ll conveniently not mention that.

Lots of fans dream about winning the PL or the CL and the chances of that happening without a billionaire being involved is impossible, so for many fans that fairy tale is Mr Money Bags coming in and spending the money.

I take it with you not liking Oil money you have no issues with AXA and their involvement with LPool?


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2021)

That should be another red for PSG ..
What’s the ref doing there.


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## Orikoru (May 4, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Wasn't sure whether to post this here or start a new thread but as it's PL related I figured it could be discussed here.

I'm following the Man City v PSG game on the BBC Sport website and someone has suggested that Riyad Mahrez is the best African footballer to play in the PL, which got me thinking about others from Africa and also from other continents. I think that Salah, Yaya Toure and Drogba have to be part of the discussion for best African player in the PL.

Son stands out as a candidate for best player from Asia, but apart from Park Ji-Sung I was struggling to think of many other high profile names from Asia.

Best ever player from Europe is bound to open a can of worms with so many players to choose from such as Schmeichel, Bergkamp, Henry, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo (although he probably reached his peak after he left), Viera, Stam, Zola, Kompany and several others.

For the south American players I've got Tevez, Suarez, Aguero.

Australia, it's either Cahill, Viduka or Kewell.

So have at it. Are there any obvious additions that I have missed? Or who would be your best ever player from each continent?
		
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Best African has to be Yaya for me. He was incredible. But Radebe is worth a shout from the early years.
Asia has to be Son, not much of a contest on that one.
Australasia I'd say it's Cahill. He was more consistent than Kewell and Viduka and for longer.
South America has to be Agüero.
North America Dempsey. 
Europe is obviously the toughest but you'd have to say Thierry Henry I think. But Kane isn't far behind.


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## AmandaJR (May 4, 2021)




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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2021)

Congratulations to City, fingers crossed Chelsea go through to join them.


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## ColchesterFC (May 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Best African has to be Yaya for me. He was incredible. But Radebe is worth a shout from the early years.
Asia has to be Son, not much of a contest on that one.
Australasia I'd say it's Cahill. He was more consistent than Kewell and Viduka and for longer.
South America has to be Agüero.
North America Dempsey.
*Europe is obviously the toughest but you'd have to say Thierry Henry I think. But Kane isn't far behind.*

Click to expand...

I did think about adding a "best British player" category but figured that would be almost as difficult as the European one with players like Giggs, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Kane etc - and those are the ones that instantly come to mind without any sort of thought going in to it.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Best African has to be Yaya for me. He was incredible. But Radebe is worth a shout from the early years.
Asia has to be Son, not much of a contest on that one.
Australasia I'd say it's Cahill. He was more consistent than Kewell and Viduka and for longer.
South America has to be Agüero.
North America Dempsey.
Europe is obviously the toughest but you'd have to say Thierry Henry I think.* But Kane isn't far behind.*

Click to expand...

Really 🤔

If adding British & Irish I would struggle to put Kane in the Top Ten - Shearer , Gerrard , Terry , Keane , Lampard , Giggs ,Rooney , Cole , Ferdinand, all ahead of Kane


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## Piece (May 4, 2021)

Brilliant performance from City. Ruben Diaz. What a player.


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Seeing as how today the conversation was about Clubs spending billions to win things, we don’t fit the bill, we aren’t in the upper echelons either.

Now if the talk is about Clubs wasting money, then we do fit the bill, infact we are the poster boys for it. I post my honest opinion on Everton games, feel free to come back at me, I don’t believe I comment on Lpool games apart from complimenting Klopp, but you found an issue that didn’t exist with that.

Recent discussions have been around the “Big 6” which we aren’t, so not sure what discussion you want about Everton, but fill your boots.

Also have a look at some of the most vocal supporters on here? My guess is Lpool fans, so if they give it, they have to be prepared to take it back.

Leicester got in to the PL by breaking the spending rules in the Championship, but we’ll conveniently not mention that.

Lots of fans dream about winning the PL or the CL and the chances of that happening without a billionaire being involved is impossible, so for many fans that fairy tale is Mr Money Bags coming in and spending the money.

I take it with you not liking Oil money you have no issues with AXA and their involvement with LPool?
		
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You hardly ever talk about Everton, lets face it. When was your last in depth post on it?

I class Everton as a big 6 club, opinions, eh?

Yes, and we've been on here for years in many fallow years, unless some who disappear when the going gets tough, or their team stops winning things - Hi Pokerjoke!!!! 

I know Leicester's history, and that was in the championship, so still a fairytale for most. Have AXA given us a billion to spend freely - so what is your point there?


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2021)

Congratulations to City.
In Europe for me the defence was always the problem , but not any more.


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## fundy (May 4, 2021)

Ander Herrera: "We were the better side for 70 minutes. We tried it all. We attacked, we tried to attack... We are going to leave here with our heads held high."

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			You hardly ever talk about Everton, lets face it. When was your last in depth post on it?

I class Everton as a big 6 club, opinions, eh?

Yes, and we've been on here for years in many fallow years, unless some who disappear when the going gets tough, or their team stops winning things - Hi Pokerjoke!!!! 

I know Leicester's history, and that was in the championship, so still a fairytale for most. Have AXA given us a billion to spend freely - so what is your point there?
		
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When was your last in depth post on Lpool? I’ll talk about Everton when the conversation involves them? I very much doubt anyone wants me to ramble on about them!

Leicester shouldn’t of been in the PL if the rules were applied correctly, so I take it we just ignore that transgression?

I didn’t realise oil money is not dirty if it only involves millions.

I’m not sure if your confusing yourself here, I answered Tashyboy, you, you then answer me and then we get the why are we talking about LPool and not Everton, like I said before, it would be quite strange to start making comments and asking questions about Chelsea or Arsenal etc to a LPool fan.


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			When was your last in depth post on Lpool? I’ll talk about Everton when the conversation involves them? I very much doubt anyone wants me to ramble on about them!

Leicester shouldn’t of been in the PL if the rules were applied correctly, so I take it we just ignore that transgression?

I didn’t realise oil money is not dirty if it only involves millions.

I’m not sure if your confusing yourself here, I answered Tashyboy, you, you then answer me and then we get the why are we talking about LPool and not Everton, like I said before, it would be quite strange to start making comments and asking questions about Chelsea or Arsenal etc to a LPool fan.
		
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I'm sure I must have mentioned us when we were talking about the ESL, you probably after 6 games when you were top of the league.

No not ignoring it, just nowhere near  the same spending as what others did.

Maybe your laying the groundwork for when Everton learn to spend the next billionaire of the rank's money more wisely?

If its a business now and not a sport, why dont you support Amazon instead of the ev?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm sure I must have mentioned us when we were talking about the ESL, you probably after 6 games when you were top of the league.

No not ignoring it, just nowhere near  the same spending as what others did.

Maybe your laying the groundwork for when Everton learn to spend the next billionaire of the rank's money more wisely?

If its a business now and not a sport, why dont you support Amazon instead of the ev?
		
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I’ll support Everton till the day I die, I’ll reminisce about the “good old days” before the PL and CL while living in the real world and facing the facts that the game has gone and we’ll never get it back.

If a team has better players I really don’t care if they brought them through their ranks or a billionaire gave them the money for them, it’s never truly been a level playing field and it certainly isn’t now.

I don’t know if you watched the match tonight, but there was some great football and at times a joy to watch, I can only admire the skill of the players and really couldn’t begrudge the City fans the excitement and joy of reaching their first CL Final, something I can only dream of.

Sadly there’ll be many a bitter LPool fan pissed off and annoyed whose only thoughts will be “they only got there because of oil money”

Life’s too short to not want the genuine City fans to enjoy the ride.


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’ll support Everton till the day I die, I’ll reminisce about the “good old days” before the PL and CL while living in the real world and facing the facts that the game has gone and we’ll never get it back.

If a team has better players I really don’t care if they brought them through their ranks or a billionaire gave them the money for them, it’s never truly been a level playing field and it certainly isn’t now.

I don’t know if you watched the match tonight, but there was some great football and at times a joy to watch, I can only admire the skill of the players and really couldn’t begrudge the City fans the excitement and joy of reaching their first CL Final, something I can only dream of.

Sadly there’ll be many a bitter LPool fan pissed off and annoyed whose only thoughts will be “they only got there because of oil money”

Life’s too short to not want the genuine City fans to enjoy the ride.
		
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Oh your spectacularly magnanimous arent you? A so-called football fan, who would be more than happy to see another club go to the wall.

End of conversation.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh your spectacularly magnanimous arent you? A so-called football fan, who would be more than happy to see another club go to the wall.

End of conversation.

Click to expand...

Just Liverpool, sweet dreams.


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## Piece (May 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Ander Herrera: "We were the better side for 70 minutes. We tried it all. We attacked, we tried to attack... We are going to leave here with our heads held high."

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

"After the match, PSG players Verrati and Herrera reportedly claimed referee Bjorn Kuipers swore at them during the game"

😂😂😂👍. Round of applause for the ref! 👏👏👏


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2021)

Good to see the ref stand up to the antics of some of the PSG players - was a strong ref

But there was an incident in the box where Diaz or Stones just pushed the PSG player over ? I’m not sure if there was anything before hand but seemed strange that it wasn’t given as penalty by VAR and a foul against PSG ? And City at times were also cynical - how Fernandino didn’t get a booking is a mystery

Overall it’s clear that PSG just rely on Neymar and Mbappe - without Mbappe it was down to Neymar and as he does a lot flatter to deceive when it comes to the big games - they marked him well.

PSG are in a very uncompetitive league and if they focus on just buying star strikers then they won’t win the CL - Neymar I can see leaving soon and Mbappe also - both of them their contracts run out next year. Would love Mbappe to play alongside Salah and Co 😁

And City - Foden again - what a player he is , hard to see him not being in the mix alongside the likes of Mbappe and Haaland as the very best young talents in football - Mahrez again , and Diaz looks a great buy. Wonder what Laporte will do - can’t be happy sat on the bench

Hard to see what Madrid or Chelsea can do to stop them winning now. It will be the first team owned by Middle East owners to win the CL - something they have really wanted


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## pokerjoke (May 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			You hardly ever talk about Everton, lets face it. When was your last in depth post on it?

I class Everton as a big 6 club, opinions, eh?

Yes, and we've been on here for years in many fallow years, unless some who disappear when the going gets tough, or their team stops winning things - Hi Pokerjoke!!!! 

I know Leicester's history, and that was in the championship, so still a fairytale for most. Have AXA given us a billion to spend freely - so what is your point there?
		
Click to expand...

As much as I like a good debate and conversation about football I came to the conclusion the forum was not the place.
Lots and lots of reasons.
I pop in most days to see what’s being talked about and will comment,wether we are winning or losing .
Debating a point like you and Paul are doing going around in circles getting nowhere is imo a waste of time and life.


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## PieMan (May 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hard to see what Madrid or Chelsea can do to stop them winning now.
		
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Probably something similar to what Chelsea did in the FA Cup Semi Final should we get to the CL final.....!! 🤔😉😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Probably something similar to what Chelsea did in the FA Cup Semi Final should we get to the CL final.....!! 🤔😉😂😂
		
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Going to be a different Man City team 

Stones , Foden , Mahrez , Walker , Ilkay , Zinchenjo , Ederson will all start this time which looks like his preferred strongest line up at the moment 

But Chelsea’s back line very strong at the moment - can hope they keep them out 👍


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## Tashyboy (May 5, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



*As much as I like a good debate and conversation about football I came to the conclusion the forum was not the place.
Lots and lots of reasons.*
I pop in most days to see what’s being talked about and will comment,wether we are winning or losing .
Debating a point like you and Paul are doing going around in circles getting nowhere is imo a waste of time and life.
		
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👍


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## PieMan (May 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Going to be a different Man City team

Stones , Foden , Mahrez , Walker , Ilkay , Zinchenjo , Ederson will all start this time which looks like his preferred strongest line up at the moment

But Chelsea’s back line very strong at the moment - can hope they keep them out 👍
		
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Yep, but all the pressure will be on City to win their first CL after winning the EPL.

If Chelsea get there then we'll be the underdogs, like we were in Munich against Bayern. 

And we all know that Istanbul has a history of favouring the underdogs in a CL final.......😉


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

Someone sounds confident about tonight


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## Tashyboy (May 5, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Yep, but all the pressure will be on City to win their first CL after winning the EPL.

If Chelsea get there then we'll be the underdogs, like we were in Munich against Bayern.

And we all know that Istanbul has a history of favouring the underdogs in a CL final.......😉
		
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Tonight City will know who is going to Istanbul.
Short version I would prefer Madrid.
Long version if it’s Chelsea and I hope it is, there’s a couple of things to contemplate. All the talk has been of City winning the Quad, now treble. Most of that talk was not by City fans. But my fear is City win the league and that’s it. An Average double. Chelsea however go on to win the FA cup and the champs league, then all of a sudden who have had the better season. 
As it stands City’s  season could come down to 2 games. This weekend v guess who, Chelsea. It’s a biggie, made all the bigger with the cancelling of last weekends Utd v Liverpool game. Then the Champs league final which could be against Chelsea. 
So talking about Chelsea. Chelsea could have 6 big games til the end of the season. 4 in the league to qualify for Champs league next year. FA cup and champs league final. There’s not much chance to rest players, plus there’s always the chance of injuries. Come what may, City and Chelsea seem to be peaking in terms of performance at the right time of the season. 
gonna be an interesting May for the prem, FA cup, Europa cup and champs league.


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Tonight City will know who is going to Istanbul.
Short version I would prefer Madrid.
Long version if it’s Chelsea and I hope it is, there’s a couple of things to contemplate. All the talk has been of City winning the Quad, now treble. Most of that talk was not by City fans. But my fear is City win the league and that’s it. An Average double. Chelsea however go on to win the FA cup and the champs league, then all of a sudden who have had the better season. 
As it stands City’s  season could come down to 2 games. This weekend v guess who, Chelsea. It’s a biggie, made all the bigger with the cancelling of last weekends Utd v Liverpool game. Then the Champs league final which could be against Chelsea. 
So talking about Chelsea. Chelsea could have 6 big games til the end of the season. 4 in the league to qualify for Champs league next year. FA cup and champs league final. There’s not much chance to rest players, plus there’s always the chance of injuries. Come what may, City and Chelsea seem to be peaking in terms of performance at the right time of the season. 
gonna be an interesting May for the prem, FA cup, Europa cup and champs league.
		
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An average double???? Get over yerself Tashy lol, try explaining what an average double is to the fans of almost every other football club. So much for poor old City who were in div 2 not so long ago now not happy to win the league and a cup in a season

No wonder other fans cant stand the big 6


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## Tashyboy (May 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			An average double???? Get over yerself Tashy lol, try explaining what an average double is to the fans of almost every other football club. So much for poor old City who were in div 2 not so long ago now not happy to win the league and a cup in a season

No wonder other fans cant stand the big 6
		
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Yup an average double. Everyone bar City fans were talking about a Quad, now a treble. I can just imagine how City’s season has been a failure coz they have a mediocre  league cup ( not City’s fans thoughts on a trophy they have won for four years) and winning the title in what has been a rubbish year. Yup that average double is looking even more rammel. Remember Liverpool were the greatest club team ever 2 years ago now there rubbish According to other clubs fans. Not only that they took great delight at seeing Liverpool fall on there face. Am sure the fans of almost every other club would take great delight in seeing the oil money, dirty money team fall flat on there faces. Apart from those that have followed football long enough to remember power shifts or before the prem league started. 
Just outta interest. If City win the league and league cup. Chelsea the FA cup and Champs league. Who has had the better season 🤔 me I would put a quid on Chelsea, esp with Tuchel coming in when He did.


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## Orikoru (May 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Yup an average double. Everyone bar City fans were talking about a Quad, now a treble. I can just imagine how City’s season has been a failure coz they have a mediocre  league cup ( not City’s fans thoughts on a trophy they have won for four years) and winning the title in what has been a rubbish year. Yup that average double is looking even more rammel. Remember Liverpool were the greatest club team ever 2 years ago now there rubbish According to other clubs fans. Not only that they took great delight at seeing Liverpool fall on there face. Am sure the fans of almost every other club would take great delight in seeing the oil money, dirty money team fall flat on there faces. Apart from those that have followed football long enough to remember power shifts or before the prem league started.
Just outta interest. If City win the league and league cup. Chelsea the FA cup and Champs league. Who has had the better season 🤔 me I would put a quid on Chelsea, esp with Tuchel coming in when He did.
		
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Winning the league is the big one, for me. Only a very good team wins the league, that's what it's all about. Good teams win the Champion's League, but there is also the luck of the draw element (proven when we somehow fluked our way to the final the other year). For an even number of trophies I'd still look at the league winners as having had the best season in that comparison.

That said, it really is about time this City team won the Champs League. Doing so largely without Aguero would be a bit of a turn-up though, amazing they never won it when he was at his peak really. But I think the squad needs it to really crown the era of this team, and Pep needs it of course because people are starting to ask questions on that front. I think they will win it too, whether it's Real or Chelsea in the final.


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Yup an average double. Everyone bar City fans were talking about a Quad, now a treble. I can just imagine how City’s season has been a failure coz they have a mediocre  league cup ( not City’s fans thoughts on a trophy they have won for four years) and winning the title in what has been a rubbish year. Yup that average double is looking even more rammel. Remember Liverpool were the greatest club team ever 2 years ago now there rubbish According to other clubs fans. Not only that they took great delight at seeing Liverpool fall on there face. Am sure the fans of almost every other club would take great delight in seeing the oil money, dirty money team fall flat on there faces. Apart from those that have followed football long enough to remember power shifts or before the prem league started. 
Just outta interest. If City win the league and league cup. Chelsea the FA cup and Champs league. Who has had the better season 🤔 me I would put a quid on Chelsea, esp with Tuchel coming in when He did.
		
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Seriously why do you care what other clubs fans think? If you win the league its been a great season full stop! Enjoy your clubs success rather than downplaying it as an average double or rammel or trying to compare it to others (maybe compare it to how you were doing 10+ years ago?) Get some perspective from all the other club that have a chance to win nothing that youre going to be disappointed if you only win 2 trophies and compare yourself to one other club. And you wonder why people who were pulling for City a few years ago arent anymore


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## Orikoru (May 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Seriously why do you care what other clubs fans think? If you win the league its been a great season full stop! Enjoy your clubs success rather than downplaying it as an average double or rammel or trying to compare it to others (maybe compare it to how you were doing 10+ years ago?) Get some perspective from all the other club that have a chance to win nothing that youre going to be disappointed if you only win 2 trophies and compare yourself to one other club. And you wonder why people who were pulling for City a few years ago arent anymore
		
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Today I saw a video saying 10 years ago it was Crouchy scoring the header that got us Champion's League while City missed out. A lot can change in a decade, clearly.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Seriously why do you care what other clubs fans think? If you win the league its been a great season full stop! Enjoy your clubs success rather than downplaying it as an average double or rammel or trying to compare it to others (maybe compare it to how you were doing 10+ years ago?) Get some perspective from all the other club that have a chance to win nothing that youre going to be disappointed if you only win 2 trophies and compare yourself to one other club. And you wonder why people who were pulling for City a few years ago arent anymore
		
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I absolutely, 99% agree with you, why only 99%? Because some opposition fans will take great delight in City not winning the CL.

Nobody should see City “only” winning the PL and Carabao Cup as failure, but let’s be honest, some will use it as an axe to grind.


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## Tashyboy (May 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Seriously why do you care what other clubs fans think? If you win the league its been a great season full stop! Enjoy your clubs success rather than downplaying it as an average double or rammel or trying to compare it to others (maybe compare it to how you were doing 10+ years ago?) Get some perspective from all the other club that have a chance to win nothing that youre going to be disappointed if you only win 2 trophies and compare yourself to one other club. And you wonder why people who were pulling for City a few years ago arent anymore
		
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I don’t care what other fans think. No that’s wrong, I don’t care about the negative thoughts of other fans. As a City fan, trying to defend your club being bought out by the Arabs and the outside money they brought in has become tiresome over the years. Seriously, it wears you down to the extent you know what is coming. My thoughts on City winning an “average double” are what you have come to expect as a City fan. The negativity, if thats a cross you have to bear then so be it. As you say “ And you wonder why people who were pulling for City a few years ago arent anymore”. Why is that? Is it anything to do with what City fans do Or say, Coz if it is then am Missing something. Is  It more to do with the dirty money owners. Again if it is, then that’s a cross I will bear.


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t care what other fans think. No that’s wrong, I don’t care about the negative thoughts of other fans. As a City fan, trying to defend your club being bought out by the Arabs and the outside money they brought in has become tiresome over the years. Seriously, it wears you down to the extent you know what is coming. My thoughts on City winning an “average double” are what you have come to expect as a City fan. The negativity, if thats a cross you have to bear then so be it. As you say “ And you wonder why people who were pulling for City a few years ago arent anymore”. Why is that? Is it anything to do with what City fans do Or say, Coz if it is then am Missing something. Is  It more to do with the dirty money owners. Again if it is, then that’s a cross I will bear.
		
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Why is that? Its things like City fans calling it an average double or rammel  

Most footie fans my age knew City fans and what they went through for the previous 20 years, thats why people were pulling for them to have some success, like why they pulled for Leicester as the underdog etc. When fans make "average double" type comments then theres been enough of a shift where you dont need us pulling for you


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## Lord Tyrion (May 5, 2021)

For me, winning your domestic league is priority number 1. Real had a spell of winning the CL a few years ago, Barcelona kept winning the league. If Real can't be the best team in Spain then how can they be the best team in Europe? At the end of the day the CL is still a cup comp, not a proper league, a true test. 

If / when City win the league they will have had the best season of an English club this season, no matter what else happens.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Why is that? Its things like City fans calling it an average double or rammel  

Most footie fans my age knew City fans and what they went through for the previous 20 years, thats why people were pulling for them to have some success, like why they pulled for Leicester as the underdog etc. When fans make "average double" type comments then theres been enough of a shift where you dont need us pulling for you 

Click to expand...

The sympathy towards City is flowing a lot 

There is no such thing as an average double 

If City win the league and league cup then it’s a excellent season , add the CL then it’s outstanding. To call winning a double of league and cup “average” borders on self entitlement and arrogance . City have outstanding players and manager , they had an owner come in a spend a significant amount of money without any worries on what comes into the club to balance the books - it’s a position that most clubs would love to be. £630mil net spend over the past 5 years - staggering 

Unfortunately recent events in regards the FFP and court case showed that they got passed the rules and got away with it due to procedural issues from UEFA as opposed to City being innocent of the charges will be in people’s mind and for some will taint the trophies - but the fans will create the siege mentality and its prob what most fans will do


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## AmandaJR (May 5, 2021)

I think what Tashy is saying that it would be perceived as an average double by non City fans and the "it's only because they've got money" critics.

For me it's about winning the league every single time and anything else is cherry on top of a truly delicious cake  

First time I've really wanted the CL as it feels like Pep wants it badly and, for me, deserves it to shut up those that say he's not achieved enough if City don't win it.

Anyway. We have a chance now - result! Just need to decide whether I try to watch it live or follow on BBC live text which as been lucky so far


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t care what other fans think. No that’s wrong, I don’t care about the negative thoughts of other fans. As a City fan, trying to defend your club being bought out by the Arabs and the outside money they brought in has become tiresome over the years. Seriously, it wears you down to the extent you know what is coming. My thoughts on City winning an “average double” are what you have come to expect as a City fan. The negativity, if thats a cross you have to bear then so be it. As you say “ And you wonder why people who were pulling for City a few years ago arent anymore”. Why is that? Is it anything to do with what City fans do Or say, Coz if it is then am Missing something. Is  It more to do with the dirty money owners. Again if it is, then that’s a cross I will bear.
		
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What you are missing is that regardless of what you say or think there will always be those opposition fans who are jealous of your success and will never accept how fortunate yous were as fans.

Enjoy the ride mate and ignore the hypocrites.


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## PieMan (May 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Today I saw a video saying 10 years ago it was Crouchy scoring the header that got us Champion's League while City missed out. A lot can change in a decade, clearly. 

Click to expand...

Don't worry in 10 years time Spurs will still be 💩💩 😉😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I think what Tashy is saying that it would be perceived as an average double by non City fans and the "it's only because they've got money" critics.

For me it's about winning the league every single time and anything else is cherry on top of a truly delicious cake 

First time I've really wanted the CL as it feels like Pep wants it badly and, for me, deserves it to shut up those that say he's not achieved enough if City don't win it.

Anyway. We have a chance now - result! Just need to decide whether I try to watch it live or follow on BBC live text which as been lucky so far 

Click to expand...

From a Fans perspective the CL final is really strange nervousness - one off final for what a lot call the biggest trophy in Club football - the build up is intense and it’s big shame no fans will be there to enjoy the atmosphere . 

I think for a lot outside the UK their respective league is just the gateway to the CL which is seen as the bigger comp but I’m glad in England the fans still see the league as number one all day long


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## PieMan (May 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Someone sounds confident about tonight 

Click to expand...

😉

I was genuinely surprised at how poor and lacklustre Real were last week - the tie should have been over by half-time, but again the lack of a clinical finisher in front of goal went against Chelsea. 

I'm fully expecting Real to be better tonight, but IMO they are not a great Real side. 🤞🤞 we do get the job done and reach the final, which I would never have thought possible when Frank was in charge.

I think we'd give Citeh a better game in the final.


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Winning the league is the big one, for me. Only a very good team wins the league, that's what it's all about. Good teams win the Champion's League, but there is also the luck of the draw element (proven when we somehow fluked our way to the final the other year). For an even number of trophies I'd still look at the league winners as having had the best season in that comparison.

That said, it really is about time this City team won the Champs League. Doing so largely without Aguero would be a bit of a turn-up though, amazing they never won it when he was at his peak really. But I think the squad needs it to really crown the era of this team, and Pep needs it of course because people are starting to ask questions on that front. I think they will win it too, whether it's Real or Chelsea in the final.
		
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Agreed , Liverpool have won the "champions" league a few times but only been premier League champs once


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

PieMan said:



			😉

I was genuinely surprised at how poor and lacklustre Real were last week - the tie should have been over by half-time, but again the lack of a clinical finisher in front of goal went against Chelsea. 

I'm fully expecting Real to be better tonight, but IMO they are not a great Real side. 🤞🤞 we do get the job done and reach the final, which I would never have thought possible when Frank was in charge.

I think we'd give Citeh a better game in the final.
		
Click to expand...


Tonights got 0-0 written all over it to me so no doubt will be a 4-3 thriller haha

Madrid are very curates egg, on their day theyre still very dangerous but they seem few and far between lately. You should have enough but lack of a goalscorer may come back to haunt a little?


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## Liverbirdie (May 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			What you are missing is that regardless of what you say or think there will always be those opposition fans who are jealous of your success and will never accept how fortunate yous were as fans.

Enjoy the ride mate and ignore the hypocrites.
		
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Aw, diddums.


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## Liverbirdie (May 5, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			As much as I like a good debate and conversation about football I came to the conclusion the forum was not the place.
Lots and lots of reasons.
I pop in most days to see what’s being talked about and will comment,wether we are winning or losing .
Debating a point like you and Paul are doing going around in circles getting nowhere is imo a waste of time and life.
		
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Just weird you decided that after many years on the forum, and by pure chance the year we won the league. Mad innit?


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## Tashyboy (May 5, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I think what Tashy is saying that it would be perceived as an average double by non City fans and the "it's only because they've got money" critics.

For me it's about winning the league every single time and anything else is cherry on top of a truly delicious cake 

First time I've really wanted the CL as it feels like Pep wants it badly and, for me, deserves it to shut up those that say he's not achieved enough if City don't win it.

Anyway. We have a chance now - result! Just need to decide whether I try to watch it live or follow on BBC live text which as been lucky so far 

Click to expand...

Did you watch the game or turn everything off Like me. I watched the Yorkshire shepherdess 😁. My lad told me the score with 78 mins gone. It was another long 12 mins. When I saw the white pitch at the start wondered what the heck had gone off.


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## AmandaJR (May 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Did you watch the game or turn everything off Like me. I watched the Yorkshire shepherdess 😁. My lad told me the score with 78 mins gone. It was another long 12 mins. When I saw the white pitch at the start wondered what the heck had gone off.
		
Click to expand...

Same as 1st leg. Dared to look at BBC Live Text once at 0-0 then David said "we always said Mahrez was a world beater" (we both find him frustrating) so I knew we'd scored and checked the web page every few minutes after that. Felt amazingly calm! Loved the plaudits coming in for the team, for Foden and for the amazing team spirit - really made me proud to be a supporter 

I'm not sure what to do for the final...


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## AmandaJR (May 5, 2021)

PS Also watching Our Yorkshire Farm - I want to be part of that family!


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

Better looking Madrid side with Hazard and Ramos back. Tuchel looking to hold what hes got with Jorginho and Kante both playing. Could be a fun one


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## pokerjoke (May 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just weird you decided that after many years on the forum, and by pure chance the year we won the league. Mad innit?
		
Click to expand...

I did say at the time you looked like winning it you lot would be unbearable.
I also congratulated Liverpool on their success.
Time moves on,life moves on and football has moved into an unbearable  era.
In fact I’m sure you would agree as a match goer it’s not football anymore.


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## Pin-seeker (May 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just weird you decided that after many years on the forum, and by pure chance the year we won the league. Mad innit?
		
Click to expand...

Almost as mad as one of the Unbearables going missing recently 😊


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## Tashyboy (May 5, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			PS Also watching Our Yorkshire Farm - I want to be part of that family!
		
Click to expand...

Not going off on tangents, but I met Amanda last Feb a few weeks before lockdown. She did a talk at chesterfield theatre and it was a fantastic hour and a half. She signed a book after and we had a natter. Will try and book her cottage for me mum when it opens. Clemmy her daughter makes me laugh out loud. The final I was due me second vaccine at 6.40 that day 😖 it’s been changed.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Better looking Madrid side with Hazard and Ramos back. Tuchel looking to hold what hes got with Jorginho and Kante both playing. Could be a fun one
		
Click to expand...

Hazard has had a mare at Madrid but wouldn’t surprise me to see him have a blinder tonight - interesting team choice for Chelsea , going to be very narrow


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## Pin-seeker (May 5, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			PS Also watching Our Yorkshire Farm - I want to be part of that family!
		
Click to expand...

Proper kids them.


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## AmandaJR (May 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Not going off on tangents, but I met Amanda last Feb a few weeks before lockdown. She did a talk at chesterfield theatre and it was a fantastic hour and a half. She signed a book after and we had a natter. Will try and book her cottage for me mum when it opens. Clemmy her daughter makes me laugh out loud. The final I was due me second vaccine at 6.40 that day 😖 it’s been changed.
		
Click to expand...

Clemmy is as cute as the cutest puppy - that's high praise from me...super cute and super smart


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## Tashyboy (May 5, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Clemmy is as cute as the cutest puppy - that's high praise from me...super cute and super smart 

Click to expand...

She is comedy gold


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2021)

Havertz certainly starting to find his feet , very classy player


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

Ferland Mendy up there with the best of the "screamers"

Ref could be in for a busy 2nd half


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			From a Fans perspective the CL final is really strange nervousness - one off final for what a lot call the biggest trophy in Club football - the build up is intense and it’s big shame no fans will be there to enjoy the atmosphere . 

I think for a lot outside the UK their respective league is just the gateway to the CL which is seen as the bigger comp but I’m glad in England the fans still see the league as number one all day long
		
Click to expand...


Its great for 15 minutes then your German keeper goes nuts and gets sent off 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## paddyc (May 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Havertz certainly starting to find his feet , very classy player
		
Click to expand...

Cant agree with you on that Phil.he  looks bang average  to me.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Cant agree with you on that Phil.he  looks bang average  to me.
		
Click to expand...

I think he is another player who has suffered from Covid issues disrupting his season and even more so coming into a new league also with a manager who really didn’t know what to do with him. He is very good on the ball , seems to glide with ease - reminds me of Kaka a little


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

Im a Havertz fan, wasnt happy when he joined Chelsea. Getting better and will continue to under Tuchel youd think

That said he really shouldve put this tie to bed already


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## clubchamp98 (May 5, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Same as 1st leg. Dared to look at BBC Live Text once at 0-0 then David said "we always said Mahrez was a world beater" (we both find him frustrating) so I knew we'd scored and checked the web page every few minutes after that. Felt amazingly calm! Loved the plaudits coming in for the team, for Foden and for the amazing team spirit - really made me proud to be a supporter 

I'm not sure what to do for the final...
		
Click to expand...

Can’t belive you don’t watch the games.
In my modest opinion.
In the past City’s defence just wasn’t good enough.
But you scared the life out of Prem teams with your strikers so nobody really had a go at you.
This masked the defensive problems.
Big European teams were not scared of you and they beat you.
That’s not the case anymore and you have the best defence you have had for a very long time.
And it shows in the way you play, knowing you have a first class defence frees the midfield and forwards to express themselves.
It’s good to watch.
The only thing that stumped me is how did Fernandinho not get a card last night.


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## ColchesterFC (May 5, 2021)

Really hope that Chelsea don't come to regret all these chances they're not taking.


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## IanM (May 5, 2021)

Chelsea could mess this up with all the fluffed chances...


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## IanM (May 5, 2021)

...then they score!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2021)

That will do it then - deserved to go through , Madrid looked the ageing team they are . They need a big overhaul in that squad


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

congrats Chelsea fans, thats 3 of the 4 English clubs in the European finals...........


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## ColchesterFC (May 5, 2021)

So that's up to 8000 UK based fans that could be travelling to Turkey for the CL final. A country currently in lockdown due to the number of Covid cases they've got. UEFA say that it's not possible to move the location of the final, despite the fact that last year they moved the finals to Portugal due to the Covid situation.


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## fundy (May 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So that's up to 8000 UK based fans that could be travelling to Turkey for the CL final. A country currently in lockdown due to the number of Covid cases they've got. UEFA say that it's not possible to move the location of the final, despite the fact that last year they moved the finals to Portugal due to the Covid situation.
		
Click to expand...


UEFA, looking out for the real football fans as they keep telling us, yeah of course they are, thats why Chelsea and Arsenal went to Baku

With Covid going on finals should def be moved if 2 clubs from the same country in the final


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 5, 2021)

Great result for Chelsea, looking forward to the all English Final, don’t care who wins.

Enjoy @Tashyboy @AmandaJR @Blue in Munich @PieMan


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## Tashyboy (May 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So that's up to 8000 UK based fans that could be travelling to Turkey for the CL final. A country currently in lockdown due to the number of Covid cases they've got. UEFA say that it's not possible to move the location of the final, despite the fact that last year they moved the finals to Portugal due to the Covid situation.
		
Click to expand...

What made me chuckle. There’s a news story where folk are flying back to the UK from red zone countries via Turkey so they don’t have to isolate when they return.

That said congrats to Chelsea. Get yer blue fez’s out


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So that's up to 8000 UK based fans that could be travelling to Turkey for the CL final. A country currently in lockdown due to the number of Covid cases they've got. UEFA say that it's not possible to move the location of the final, despite the fact that last year they moved the finals to Portugal due to the Covid situation.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like too much common sense and no doubt some sort of money on the line. 

Just switch it to Wembley and provide Turkey with some financial compensation- UEFA can afford it


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## clubchamp98 (May 5, 2021)

Well done to Chelsea.
Deserved the win by far the better team.
Look forward to the final.


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## Blue in Munich (May 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			UEFA, looking out for the real football fans as they keep telling us, yeah of course they are, thats why Chelsea and Arsenal went to Baku

With Covid going on finals should def be moved if 2 clubs from the same country in the final
		
Click to expand...

You just know if UEFA agreed to change it the FA would say Wembley is booked and we can't change that.


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## clubchamp98 (May 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sounds like too much common sense and no doubt some sort of money on the line.

Just switch it to Wembley and provide Turkey with some financial compensation- UEFA can afford it
		
Click to expand...

The problem is those four letters UEFA.
they should prove after the SL fiasco they are on the fans side, but we all know they won’t!


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## ColchesterFC (May 5, 2021)

Switch it to Old Trafford. Can you imagine how much City fans would love it if they got to win the CL trophy there?


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## clubchamp98 (May 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Switch it to Old Trafford. Can you imagine how much City fans would love it if they got to win the CL trophy there?
		
Click to expand...

Security’s not good enough.


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## Tashyboy (May 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Security’s not good enough.

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂


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## Tashyboy (May 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Switch it to Old Trafford. Can you imagine how much City fans would love it if they got to win the CL trophy there?
		
Click to expand...

Am not sure we could find 4,000 to go 😉


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am not sure we could find 4,000 to go 😉
		
Click to expand...

Prefer to watch a farming program 🤷‍♂️😁


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## Liverbirdie (May 5, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			You just know if UEFA agreed to change it the FA would say Wembley is booked and we can't change that.
		
Click to expand...

Typical southerner, always expect it to be in London. 

Get it played in Cardiff, at least it's abroad. 

If it is in the Ataturk, can give you some 16 year old advice, if needed.


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## clubchamp98 (May 5, 2021)

Turkey is in full lockdown I thought.
How are they getting around that?


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## Slime (May 6, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Typical southerner, always expect it to be in London. 

Get it played in Cardiff, at least it's abroad. 

*If it is in the Ataturk, can give you some 16 year old advice, if needed*. 

Click to expand...

Bribe the opposition goalie at half time?


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## AmandaJR (May 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t belive you don’t watch the games.
In my modest opinion.
In the past City’s defence just wasn’t good enough.
But you scared the life out of Prem teams with your strikers so nobody really had a go at you.
This masked the defensive problems.
Big European teams were not scared of you and they beat you.
That’s not the case anymore and you have the best defence you have had for a very long time.
And it shows in the way you play, knowing you have a first class defence frees the midfield and forwards to express themselves.
It’s good to watch.
The only thing that stumped me is how did Fernandinho not get a card last night.

Click to expand...

Well I don't have BT Sport so that's the reason really.


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## clubchamp98 (May 6, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Well I don't have BT Sport so that's the reason really.
		
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Right, I would have to find a pub with a screen outdoors.
What you doing for the final.?


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## paddyc (May 6, 2021)

Well done Chelsea deserved to go through easily, but Real were poor. So wish Arsenal had gone for Tuchel....might have his work cut out to stop us conceding goals though.
Must move the final to Wembley absolutely crazy to go Turkey.


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## GB72 (May 6, 2021)

Interesting question. It appears that fans may well be back in stadiums for the last 2 matches of the season but home fans only. Does, this give an unfair advantage to those teams needing to produce results in those 2 matches


clubchamp98 said:



			Turkey is in full lockdown I thought.
How are they getting around that?
		
Click to expand...

Think they come out of lockdown in about 10 days so in time but still a number of variables. The lockdown could be extended, Turkey may not be on the UK travel list, crowds may not be allowed in stadiums etc. Common sense would say to move the match to the UK but then again, there are 2 French teams in the rugby European cup final and that is sill being played at Twickenham so common sense is not always a factor.


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## fundy (May 6, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Interesting question. It appears that fans may well be back in stadiums for the last 2 matches of the season but home fans only. Does, this give an unfair advantage to those teams needing to produce results in those 2 matches


Think they come out of lockdown in about 10 days so in time but still a number of variables. The lockdown could be extended, Turkey may not be on the UK travel list, crowds may not be allowed in stadiums etc. Common sense would say to move the match to the UK but then again, there are 2 French teams in the rugby European cup final and that is sill being played at Twickenham so common sense is not always a factor.
		
Click to expand...


In the prem league theyve changed fixture dates so every club gets 1 home and 1 away so all clubs have equal opportunity for having fans at a home game


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## Beezerk (May 6, 2021)

Hey Tashy, turns out Phil Foden's brother works at the factory I'm currently in. I'll see if I can arrange a signed pair of crocs for you and bring them to Forest Pines 😆


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## AmandaJR (May 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Right, I would have to find a pub with a screen outdoors.
What you doing for the final.?
		
Click to expand...

Waiting to see what BT do as last year they put it for free on their youtube channel. If not then buy a month's pass.


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## Pin-seeker (May 6, 2021)

I 


AmandaJR said:



			Waiting to see what BT do as last year they put it for free on their youtube channel. If not then buy a month's pass.
		
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I read that it’s the same this year,free on BT YouTube channel.


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## fundy (May 6, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Waiting to see what BT do as last year they put it for free on their youtube channel. If not then buy a month's pass.
		
Click to expand...

already announced the womens CL final will be free on their youtube channel, seems certain theyll do the same


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## Tashyboy (May 6, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Hey Tashy, turns out Phil Foden's brother works at the factory I'm currently in. I'll see if I can arrange a signed pair of crocs for you and bring them to Forest Pines 😆
		
Click to expand...

only if there sky blue please 👍😁


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## paddyc (May 6, 2021)

I know its early doors  but Arsenals start to the game does not inspire  confidence


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## Papas1982 (May 6, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			I

I read that it’s the same this year,free on BT YouTube channel.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty sure the finals HAVE to be free to air. 

It's part of their contract.


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## Pin-seeker (May 6, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Pretty sure the finals HAVE to be free to air.

It's part of their contract.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah think you’re right.


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## fundy (May 6, 2021)

Any danger someone wants to tell our passionless effortless players this is the biggest game of their season. Game after game were utterly flat for the first half. No passion, no effort, no leaders the only identifier its an Arteta team is were determined to commit hari kari playing out from the back. Somehow were still in it, lets hope the 2nd half is better, cant get any worse


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## Liverpoolphil (May 6, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390363378430906377
👏👏👏


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## fundy (May 6, 2021)

Anything good weve had of late has eminated from wide. So weve picked Bellerin who has been truly awful for god knows how long and a 30% fit Tierney on the hope hell be ok. Open yer eyes Arteta. Switch Saka to left back, get Chambers on at right back, get Martinelli on up top and get another midfielder on alongside Partey so that were not overrun

Or keep doing nothing and hoping.....


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## paddyc (May 6, 2021)

There is no way we are going to win this game if we continue  to be so sloppy and give the ball away in dangerous areas. we need to get Martinelli on now


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 6, 2021)

Disappointed for Arsenal and their fans, hopefully Utd can win it.


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## fundy (May 6, 2021)

got exactly what we deserved from the 2 legs, absolutely nothing. outplayed and out thought by Emerys side

no effort, no passion, no commitment, no risks. maybe theyre not good enough but at least give it a go, players look scared to not conform to a system that doesnt work 

arteta is not the problem at arsenal, but even moreso, he is not the solution


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## paddyc (May 6, 2021)

That was a terrible performance didnt deserve anything ffs it's a semi final. has to be question marks against Arteta now  no European  football next season for the first time in 25 years and no chance of making top 4 with current squad. one shot on target all game. I'm furious!


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## PieMan (May 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390363378430906377
👏👏👏
		
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Good job he wasn't there in person to receive it, probably would've fallen over when presented with the award!!! 😉 😂


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## sawtooth (May 6, 2021)

Lol not much has changed on here . The same clowns moaning about Arteta were the same ones that helped put us in this situation.

You couldn't make it up. I hope Wenger is pi$$ing himself , I know I would be.


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## fundy (May 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Disappointed for Arsenal and their fans, hopefully Utd can win it.
		
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take the good with the bad, were fortunate to have had plenty of good of late, sadly i think there more bad coming up

be shocked if Utd dont win the final tbh


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## Slime (May 6, 2021)

Cavani, the definition of value for money.
What a great header for his second goal and there's so much United's youngsters can learn from his movement.
He's a defenders' nightmare.


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## pokerjoke (May 7, 2021)

Love Robbies rant on ATV from last nights game.

Great to be in the final after what was a very poor performance,some players just going through the motions.


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## Tashyboy (May 7, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Love Robbies rant on ATV from last nights game.

Great to be in the final after what was a very poor performance,some players just going through the motions.
		
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Unfortunately having watched citys lame performance in the champs league semi final a few years back. That performance will stick in fans throats for years


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## Lord Tyrion (May 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Disappointed for Arsenal and their fans, hopefully Utd can win it.
		
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I think they are just called Villareal, not Villareal Utd


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## Junior (May 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Cavani, the definition of value for money.
What a great header for his second goal and there's so much United's youngsters can learn from his movement.
He's a defenders' nightmare.
		
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I hope he signs another year.


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## pokerjoke (May 7, 2021)

Junior said:



			I hope he signs another year.
		
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I think it’s a certainty


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## pokerjoke (May 7, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Unfortunately having watched citys lame performance in the champs league semi final a few years back. That performance will stick in fans throats for years
		
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Your right
It was shocking 
Probably cost the manager his job although some blame has to be his.
Maybe he struggles to motivate,and taking his main striker off was bizarre


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## Tashyboy (May 7, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Your right
It was shocking
Probably cost the manager his job although some blame has to be his.
Maybe he struggles to motivate,and taking his main striker off was bizarre
		
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I mentioned the City v Real Madrid semi a few years back. I was unfortunate to watch City v Monaco in Monaco a few years back. City had done a good job on them at home. But in Monaco, I was gutted, we were atrocious. It’s will always stick in my throat. 
Seems the woeful performances stick as much as the great performances


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## Tashyboy (May 7, 2021)

Turkey had been added to the red list. Bottom line, if you go you have to quarantine for 10 days on your return.😳
looks like am gonna have to kick it in the head then. Shame as I was gonna get me teeth done whilst I was out there.

UEFA  is now considering  options.

why don’t they just give it to city and Chelsea but put an asterisk at the side 🤔😁


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## Papas1982 (May 7, 2021)

Makes absolutely no sense to host it in Turkey now.

Host it either in England or any of the other green zones (Portugal was fine for nations). If they can have some fans in the stadium it’s a better atmosphere and product for them to sell....


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## Tashyboy (May 7, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Makes absolutely no sense to host it in Turkey now.

Host it either in England or any of the other green zones (Portugal was fine for nations). If they can have some fans in the stadium it’s a better atmosphere and product for them to sell....
		
Click to expand...

I think the initial allocation was 8,000 fans in total. 99.9% of those would be from the UK.But UEFA had said that its 17,000 sponsors tickets would still be given out. Those sponsors come from all over the world. If UEFA do have a change of heart and play the game in the UK or Portugal. I think it would be more to do with looking after sponsors rather than fans Or the UK.


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## Blue in Munich (May 7, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the initial allocation was 8,000 fans in total. 99.9% of those would be from the UK.But UEFA had said that its 17,000 sponsors tickets would still be given out. Those sponsors come from all over the world. If UEFA do have a change of heart and play the game in the UK or Portugal. I think it would be more to do with looking after sponsors rather than fans Or the UK.
		
Click to expand...

If UEFA do anything it will be to look after UEFA; no more, no less.  Sod the game they are supposed to protect & the clubs & fans they are supposed to serve.


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## fundy (May 7, 2021)

Willock at it again for Newcastle


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## fundy (May 7, 2021)

Premier League goals this season:

Mohamed Elneny, Emile Smith Rowe, Martin Odegaard, Granit Xhaka, Reiss Nelson, Dani Ceballos, Thomas Partey and Willian combined - 4

Joe Willock - 5


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## Jensen (May 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			Premier League goals this season:

Mohamed Elneny, Emile Smith Rowe, Martin Odegaard, Granit Xhaka, Reiss Nelson, Dani Ceballos, Thomas Partey and Willian combined - 4

Joe Willock - 5
		
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And he scored for The Toon against Spurs 😩


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## Blue in Munich (May 7, 2021)

UEFA sanctions announced;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57031372

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/med...s/news/0269-123871bd86ca-d9571aa78f72-1000--/

I didn't agree with the ESL, but seeing the "golden handcuffs" deal in this, I'm even less of a fan of the way UEFA do business.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 7, 2021)

Leicester look like they had a big night last night 😳.

Willock might be pricing himself out of a transfer at this rate.


----------



## Old Skier (May 7, 2021)

This man talks sense 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390705539189989377


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## 4LEX (May 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			Any danger someone wants to tell our passionless effortless players this is the biggest game of their season. Game after game were utterly flat for the first half. No passion, no effort, no leaders the only identifier its an Arteta team is were determined to commit hari kari playing out from the back. Somehow were still in it, lets hope the 2nd half is better, cant get any worse
		
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Sad to see Arsenal like this. Way too many egos and bad apples in that dressing room. All the big earners have to be sold/written off and a few quality signings added to blend with the quality young players. I doubted Arteta at first but he impressed me for the first six months, however it's clear now you either sack him and bring in a muppet mamager who lets player power run away, or you back Arteta. Either way the club won't be finishing in the Top Four for a few years.


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## fundy (May 7, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Sad to see Arsenal like this. Way too many egos and bad apples in that dressing room. All the big earners have to be sold/written off and a few quality signings added to blend with the quality young players. I doubted Arteta at first but he impressed me for the first six months, however it's clear now you either sack him and bring in a muppet mamager who lets player power run away, or you back Arteta. Either way the club won't be finishing in the Top Four for a few years.
		
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Out of curiousity, what has he done as a non Arsenal fan that has impressed you?


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## nickjdavis (May 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Leicester look like they had a big night last night 😳.

Willock might be pricing himself out of a transfer at this rate.
		
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I'll pay his bloody wages if we can keep him!!!!


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## Pin-seeker (May 8, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			This man talks sense


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390705539189989377

Click to expand...

Sorry but that’s rubbish,he’s just trying to say what people want to hear.
If you buy a business you own it regardless  of where you’re from.


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## pokerjoke (May 8, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Sad to see Arsenal like this. Way too many egos and bad apples in that dressing room. All the big earners have to be sold/written off and a few quality signings added to blend with the quality young players. I doubted Arteta at first but he impressed me for the first six months, however it's clear now you either sack him and bring in a muppet mamager who lets player power run away, or you back Arteta. Either way the club won't be finishing in the Top Four for a few years.
		
Click to expand...

So Arteta has impressed you but Ole is a muppet and should be sacked?
Yes that makes real sense


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## Jensen (May 8, 2021)

Great result for The Toon. Maybe Steve Bruce isn’t a muppet after all 🤔🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 8, 2021)

It isn’t going away quietly.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...madrid-european-super-league-b933953.html?amp


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## PieMan (May 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It isn’t going away quietly.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...madrid-european-super-league-b933953.html?amp

Click to expand...

Not surprised. In Europe this season all 3 of those clubs demonstrating they're not to be feared any more (yes Real reached CL semis but should've been beaten by a far greater margin by Chelsea). 

And Real and Barca in desperate need of cash as well to re-build.

Expect this to rumble on for a few weeks and then it will go quiet over the summer when the Euros dominate the back pages.


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## pendodave (May 8, 2021)

That third Leeds goal. Chef's kiss tastic.
If they were my lot (whu), we'd have been in 5 banks of 4 on the edge of our box since just before half time.(not a complaint, Moyes just can't help himself any more than i can stop a weak fade)
Instead, every time they've picked up the ball they've bombed forward and tried to get another. It's really refreshing and impressive.


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## pauljames87 (May 8, 2021)

pendodave said:



			That third Leeds goal. Chef's kiss tastic.
If they were my lot (whu), we'd have been in 5 banks of 4 on the edge of our box since just before half time.(not a complaint, Moyes just can't help himself any more than i can stop a weak fade)
Instead, every time they've picked up the ball they've bombed forward and tried to get another. It's really refreshing and impressive.
		
Click to expand...

Well against Burnley proves this wrong surely? 

Pushing until the end should of been 4/5


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## Fade and Die (May 8, 2021)

pendodave said:



			That third Leeds goal. Chef's kiss tastic.
If they were my lot (whu), we'd have been in 5 banks of 4 on the edge of our box since just before half time.(not a complaint, Moyes just can't help himself any more than i can stop a weak fade)
Instead, every time they've picked up the ball they've bombed forward and tried to get another. It's really refreshing and impressive.
		
Click to expand...

With Leicester getting beat by the barcodes and it all going very Spursy for Spurs we have to be big Citeh fans today and you never know.... May the 4th be with you!


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## pendodave (May 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Well against Burnley proves this wrong surely? 

Pushing until the end should of been 4/5
		
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Those painful behind the sofa last minutes didn't happen??
Lol, meant it as a compliment to Leeds, rather than a knock on us. They've been a real breath of fresh air this season. 
As for the tubers.... blimey. They looked gone.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 8, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Great result for The Toon. Maybe Steve Bruce isn’t a muppet after all 🤔🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Every so often they play like this and look great. Inbetween, more often, they play like they did against Arsenal. It's one or the other.


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## Piece (May 8, 2021)

Oh Sergio. What was that? 😱😂😂😂


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## srixon 1 (May 8, 2021)

Piece said:



			Oh Sergio. What was that? 😱😂😂😂
		
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embarrassing


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## ColchesterFC (May 8, 2021)

Agueeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrooooo-oh!!!


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## Liverbirdie (May 8, 2021)

Although 2-3 views looked a penalty, if you just run into someone's legs from 2 yards away, that should not be a pen.


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## Tashyboy (May 8, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Agueeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrooooo-oh!!!
		
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😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Captainron (May 8, 2021)

Sterling still bugs me so much. He’s a precious little diving wuss.


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## Old Skier (May 8, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Sterling still bugs me so much. He’s a precious little diving wuss.
		
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I think your describe quite a few kiss ball players there.


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## Captainron (May 8, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			I think your describe quite a few kiss ball players there.
		
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He’s nearly as bad as Neymar.


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## BiMGuy (May 8, 2021)

That was a great performance against Spurs today, especially with some of our best players on the bench.


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## BiMGuy (May 8, 2021)

How was that not a pen? Anywhere else on the pitch and Sterling gets a free kick.


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## PieMan (May 8, 2021)

Cheers Sergio - see you at the Bridge next year..... 😉😂 😂 😂


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## davemc1 (May 8, 2021)

Still Champions 😀


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## Blue in Munich (May 8, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			How was that not a pen? Anywhere else on the pitch and Sterling gets a free kick.
		
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Because the contact wasn't sufficient to put him over and he chose to dive; which begs the question, why no second yellow for simulation?

Or maybe they finally realised he should have been off in the first half for the studs first tackle on Werner...


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## pokerjoke (May 8, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			How was that not a pen? Anywhere else on the pitch and Sterling gets a free kick.
		
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I agree
Zuma completely the wrong side and catches him albeit softly.
Sterling is a wuss for sure,but nobody squeals like Werner.


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## pokerjoke (May 8, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Still Champions 😀
		
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Yes a really good defence of the title,well done


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## Blue in Munich (May 8, 2021)

So ref, and VAR, ball's gone, tackler's off his feet and he's in studs first above the ankle; how, exactly, is that a yellow card?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 8, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			So ref, and VAR, ball's gone, tackler's off his feet and he's in studs first above the ankle; how, exactly, is that a yellow card?






Click to expand...

Ouch - that’s not great 

Did they look at it ? After the recent raft of red cards from someone just tackling and then follow through that looks worse 🤷‍♂️


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## Blue in Munich (May 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ouch - that’s not great

Did they look at it ? After the recent raft of red cards from someone just tackling and then follow through that looks worse 🤷‍♂️
		
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Apparently they did, and deemed it only worthy of a yellow.  As you say, I've seen better tackles get red carded.


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## hairball_89 (May 8, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			So ref, and VAR, ball's gone, tackler's off his feet and he's in studs first above the ankle; how, exactly, is that a yellow card?






Click to expand...

Stills always look worse than the video, which I've not seen yet. But as its Raheem, stone wall red. Every day.


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## Blue in Munich (May 8, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Stills always look worse than the video, which I've not seen yet. But as its Raheem, stone wall red. Every day.
		
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There you go;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391074777780138003
I look forward to the case for the defence...


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## Liverpoolphil (May 8, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			There you go;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391074777780138003
I look forward to the case for the defence...
		
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He didn’t get the ball ?! That’s a red all day


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## hairball_89 (May 8, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			There you go;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391074777780138003
I look forward to the case for the defence...
		
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Many many many worse tackles have seen red. I reckon his left leg being on the floor saves him. He's not it off control. But it is dangerous. 

Honestly? I think yellow is about right. But the kicker is what refs have given reds for recently, which is fair tackles. So who knows. 

But I'll stick to my original decision. It's Raheem. It's red!


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## Blue in Munich (May 8, 2021)

Mike Ashley v.the Premier League;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57017152


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## Liverbirdie (May 8, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Apparently they did, and deemed it only worthy of a yellow.  As you say, I've seen better tackles get red carded.
		
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It was a bit like the non-penalty, 2-3 views looked just a yellow, but one was deffo a red.

Both decisions went City's way from the greater Manchester based referee.


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## 4LEX (May 9, 2021)

How many times is VAR going to get things clearly wrong?! Red for Sterling and then he should've had a penalty.....both looked at and wrong decisions given. The game today was decided on bad calls, although Chelsea deserved the win. VAR was added to cut out mistakes and theres as many, if not more mistakes now than there was before. For every bad decision it corrects, theres another five it gets wrong. Totally pointless and has definitely made refs on the field far more insecure and less confident.


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## 4LEX (May 9, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Mike Ashley v.the Premier League;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57017152

Click to expand...

The PL is a joke. Allowed owners from other countries with toxic human rights records to buy clubs, yet says no to the Saudi's. If the UK government deals with them for arms deals, the PL has no place to stop it. They've allowed some of the worst owners possible buy and wreck clubs so I think Ashley stands a good chance of winning this.


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## clubchamp98 (May 9, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			How was that not a pen? Anywhere else on the pitch and Sterling gets a free kick.
		
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He should have been on the bench with a red card .
Inconsistency from refs is poor.
Vesteguard at least got the ball.


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## BiMGuy (May 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He should have been on the bench with a red card .
Inconsistency from refs is poor.
Vesteguard at least got the ball.
		
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He should. 

But that is irrelevant to the pen decision.


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## clubchamp98 (May 9, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			He should.

But that is irrelevant to the pen decision.
		
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CB was never getting the ball and was a stupid clumsy attempt I agree.
Modern refs give that all day.

you can’t foul him if he’s not on the pitch.
If the ref had done his job properly he wouldn’t have been.
Given what lads have been sent off for recently I am scratching my head.
VAR what a joke.


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## Piece (May 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			CB was never getting the ball and was a stupid clumsy attempt I agree.
Modern refs give that all day.

you can’t foul him if he’s not on the pitch.
If the ref had done his job properly he wouldn’t have been.
Given what lads have been sent off for recently I am scratching my head.
VAR what a joke.
		
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Why a joke? On field ref gives a yellow, whether we agree or not. What is missing is the conversation between the VAR and the on field ref as to why the VAR doesn’t think it’s worthy of a monitor review for a red. Perhaps then if we had that, then we could reason why.

For what its worth, I think it should have been a red. But that’s my opinion. The on field ref and VAR’s opinion is yellow. Deal with it.

There is too much hysterical nonsense about VAR.


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## fundy (May 9, 2021)

better day for southampton fans today


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## Slime (May 9, 2021)

Cracking finish from the Villa lad, absolutely cracking.


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## Slime (May 9, 2021)

Normal service has been resumed.

Bruno ....... penalty.


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## BiMGuy (May 9, 2021)

Slime said:



			Normal service has been resumed.

Bruno ....... penalty.  

Click to expand...

#shocked


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## fundy (May 9, 2021)

greenwood has an odd natural arm position lol, 100% a pen at the other end


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## Slime (May 9, 2021)

Cavani's movement is just sublime.
United HAVE to keep him for another year, they absolutely have to.


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## Slime (May 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			greenwood has an odd natural arm position lol, 100% a pen at the other end
		
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Not in a million years.


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## fundy (May 9, 2021)

Slime said:





Not in a million years.
		
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youll tell me there was no contact from Henderson next lol


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## Slime (May 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			you'll tell me there was no contact from Henderson next lol
		
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You only have to ask.


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## pokerjoke (May 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			youll tell me there was no contact from Henderson next lol
		
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I think Hendersons hat fell on him


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 9, 2021)

Get in!!! Great result


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## clubchamp98 (May 9, 2021)

Piece said:



			Why a joke? On field ref gives a yellow, whether we agree or not. What is missing is the conversation between the VAR and the on field ref as to why the VAR doesn’t think it’s worthy of a monitor review for a red. Perhaps then if we had that, then we could reason why.

For what its worth, I think it should have been a red. But that’s my opinion. The on field ref and VAR’s opinion is yellow. Deal with it.

There is too much hysterical nonsense about VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Who’s being hysterical.
It’s a forum ffs.
But we don’t matter, the refs decision is the only one that does.


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## Pin-seeker (May 9, 2021)

Slime said:



			Cavani's movement is just sublime.
United HAVE to keep him for another year, they absolutely have to.
		
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Imagine if he’d come to the prem in his prime 🤯


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## clubchamp98 (May 9, 2021)

Slime said:



			Cavani's movement is just sublime.
United HAVE to keep him for another year, they absolutely have to.
		
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Thing is great movement from a quality striker makes it so much easy to find him.
He’s quality I think and he can finish.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Get in!!! Great result 

Click to expand...

Can we play away every game? Great to see DCL back on the score sheet.


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can we play away every game? Great to see DCL back on the score sheet.
		
Click to expand...

We looked awful! Couldn't break you down

Well played tho, you made us look disjointed 

Well taken goal. He got bit great at end could have passed sooner and Richarlson would be in

No shots on target says it all just very well organized

Should be hitting target with that header tho!


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## Blue in Munich (May 9, 2021)

Piece said:



			Why a joke? On field ref gives a yellow, whether we agree or not. What is missing is the conversation between the VAR and the on field ref as to why the VAR doesn’t think it’s worthy of a monitor review for a red. Perhaps then if we had that, then we could reason why.

For what its worth, I think it should have been a red. But that’s my opinion. The on field ref and VAR’s opinion is yellow. Deal with it.

*There is too much hysterical nonsense about VAR*.
		
Click to expand...

There is too much nonsense by VAR.  They could put an end to all the arguments by actually getting the decisions right; you know, the job they were bought in to do...


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## Steve Wilkes (May 9, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			There is too much nonsense by VAR.  They could put an end to all the arguments *by actually getting the decisions right*; you know, the job they were bought in to do... 

Click to expand...

How do you get a 50-50 call right


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## Bunkermagnet (May 9, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			How do you get a 50-50 call right
		
Click to expand...

You have a manager that swings it your way every time


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## Blue in Munich (May 9, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			How do you get a 50-50 call right
		
Click to expand...

A 50-50 call might be difficult, but most of the ones I've seen are not remotely close to 50-50.


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## hairball_89 (May 9, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			How do you get a 50-50 call right
		
Click to expand...

50/50s are those ones where most supporters will disagree with the refs decision, but understand why. "I thought it was 51/49, the ref thought it was 49/51".

Pretty much every decision talked about in this thread has supporters of probably half the teams in the PL *all* agreeing the refs got it wrong.


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## Steve Wilkes (May 9, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			50/50s are those ones where most supporters will disagree with the refs decision, but understand why. "I thought it was 51/49, the ref thought it was 49/51".

Pretty much every decision talked about in this thread has supporters of probably half the teams in the PL *all* agreeing the refs got it wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Most people use their own bias to agree the VAR got it wrong, only have to look at yesterdays Sterling non-sending off


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## Lord Tyrion (May 10, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			We looked awful! Couldn't break you down

Well played tho, you made us look disjointed

Well taken goal. He got bit great at end could have passed sooner and Richarlson would be in

No shots on target says it all just very well organized

Should be hitting target with that header tho!
		
Click to expand...

Ancelotti has organised us to within an inch of our lives. You can see the banks of players, all very disciplined. If we get ahead away from home we are tough to break down. The issue we have is when we go behind. We have the players to go at teams but we are a little reluctant to do it. Part of the problem is our best team is very good but the back ups, not so much. I don't think Ancelotti trusts them enough to be expansive when they are playing. 

Ultimately, not a lot between both teams, this one went our way. Wherever you end up it's been a great year of progress. The trick is to follow it up next year. Incidentally, if you get bored of Antonio we will take him 😄. He would fit in nicely.


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## pauljames87 (May 10, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ancelotti has organised us to within an inch of our lives. You can see the banks of players, all very disciplined. If we get ahead away from home we are tough to break down. The issue we have is when we go behind. We have the players to go at teams but we are a little reluctant to do it. Part of the problem is our best team is very good but the back ups, not so much. I don't think Ancelotti trusts them enough to be expansive when they are playing. 

Ultimately, not a lot between both teams, this one went our way. Wherever you end up it's been a great year of progress. The trick is to follow it up next year. Incidentally, if you get bored of Antonio we will take him 😄. He would fit in nicely.
		
Click to expand...

Could say the same of the first game , highlighted by a 85th min was it? Winner in a tight game 

Antonio hmm how much? He will spend more time on the treatment table than Darren anderton mind


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## Lord Tyrion (May 10, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Could say the same of the first game , highlighted by a 85th min was it? Winner in a tight game

Antonio hmm how much? He will spend more time on the treatment table than Darren anderton mind
		
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Ah, fair enough. I had not taken that close a look. Shame as when he is on the pitch he is excellent. Scores, disrupts, creates, direct.


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## road2ruin (May 10, 2021)

Common sense prevails, CL final now to be at Wembley


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## Blue in Munich (May 10, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Common sense prevails, CL final now to be at Wembley
		
Click to expand...

Have they?  BBC stating decision to be made by Wednesday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804


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## road2ruin (May 10, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Have they?  BBC stating decision to be made by Wednesday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Click to expand...

Press Association were reporting that it's pretty much a done deal, the complicating factor is the Play Off final as UEFA have said it's Wembley only for their final so a plan needs to be made for the other game.


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## Piece (May 10, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			There is too much nonsense by VAR.  *They could put an end to all the arguments by actually getting the decisions right*; you know, the job they were bought in to do... 

Click to expand...

Never going to happen. Somebody's view of right is another's wrong. It's like asking all on the Golf Forum to agree to everyone else's opinion 

I'll be honest, a season in the Championship without VAR was more refreshing. More decisions were wrong compared to a VAR world but game was more enjoyable. Once you had scored, you had "scored"!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 10, 2021)

Surely the answer is for the EFL game to be moved to one of the many London grounds of stature. Play it at West Ham, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea for example. If that is an issue for police, shouldn't be as there will be barely by any, if any at all, fans present, then play it at Man City, Liverpool, Man Utd, Aston Villa etc. Plenty of grounds that are worthy of a final, particularly as you are not having to house 70-80k people this year.


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## Piece (May 10, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Press Association were reporting that it's pretty much a done deal, the complicating factor is the Play Off final as UEFA have said it's Wembley only for their final so a plan needs to be made for the other game.
		
Click to expand...

Please be Wembley, if only to put UEFA officials in quarantine for two weeks in a 1* hotel in Brixton.


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## Blue in Munich (May 10, 2021)

Piece said:



			Please be Wembley, if only to put UEFA officials in quarantine for two weeks in a 1* hotel in Brixton. 

Click to expand...

I used to work in Brixton & even the residents I dealt with don't deserve to have UEFA officials dumped on them.


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## GB72 (May 10, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Press Association were reporting that it's pretty much a done deal, the complicating factor is the Play Off final as UEFA have said it's Wembley only for their final so a plan needs to be made for the other game.
		
Click to expand...

Seems to be some work needed from the Government as well to allow all of the various interested parties that UEFA invite to attend. Guessing they are looking to have them exempted from quarantine etc.


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## road2ruin (May 10, 2021)

Cavani has agreed to extend his contract by a season. A huge signing for United IMO, both on the pitch and for what he offers the younger players in training. His goals have been invaluable and would be brilliant to see him in front of a full Old Trafford.


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## Reemul (May 10, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Seems to be some work needed from the Government as well to allow all of the various interested parties that UEFA invite to attend. Guessing they are looking to have them exempted from quarantine etc.
		
Click to expand...

That's a No then.

Portugal to host Final


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## Fade and Die (May 10, 2021)

Reemul said:



			That's a No then.

Portugal to host Final

Click to expand...

If I was a fan of either of the two finalists I would be pleased about this. It’s the final of the Champions league, it should not be played at Wembley, it would just be like a repeat of the FA cup semi final. 
Portugal is a “green country” so fans can go. Happy days.


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## Blue in Munich (May 10, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			If I was a fan of either of the two finalists I would be pleased about this. It’s the final of the Champions league, it should not be played at Wembley, it would just be like a repeat of the FA cup semi final.
Portugal is a “green country” so fans can go. Happy days.
		
Click to expand...

As a fan of one of the finalists, play it at Wembley; given the travel restrictions/implications in the current situation, avoids fans being held to ransom by the airlines & there's a possibility of far more fans for each side being at Wembley than there will be in Portugal.


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## GB72 (May 10, 2021)

Hate to think how much it would cost to go to Portugal. As one of the only short haul holiday destinations allowed from next week people are going to be paying over the odds already for a holiday. Add the usual big sporting event price hike on top and it could be silly money.


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## Fade and Die (May 10, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			As a fan of one of the finalists, play it at Wembley; given the travel restrictions/implications in the current situation, avoids fans being held to ransom by the airlines & there's a possibility of far more fans for each side being at Wembley than there will be in Portugal.
		
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Yes I understand your point but I just think it would have a bigger sense of occasion if I went abroad to watch it... “Blue in Wembley” doesn’t have the same ring to it!😁


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## Liverpoolphil (May 10, 2021)

Seems some strange ones tonight 

Surely a penalty against Burnley ? 
and then a red for Fulham GK ?

Have they turned off VAR


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## fundy (May 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems some strange ones tonight 

Surely a penalty against Burnley ? 
and then a red for Fulham GK ?

Have they turned off VAR
		
Click to expand...


If anyone can explain how the keeper handling it 40 yards from his goal is not a red card id be most grateful as i genuinely think theyre just getting late entrants into the worst VAR comp still


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## fundy (May 10, 2021)

fundy said:



			If anyone can explain how the keeper handling it 40 yards from his goal is not a red card id be most grateful as i genuinely think theyre just getting late entrants into the worst VAR comp still
		
Click to expand...


sorry Im clearly an idiot, the defender on the floor was going to prevent the goal scoring opportunity  🤣🤣🤣


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## Blue in Munich (May 10, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Yes I understand your point but I just think it would have a bigger sense of occasion if I went abroad to watch it... “Blue in Wembley” doesn’t have the same ring to it!😁
		
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Nothing will ever have the same ring to it as that night did, and is the reason why if we are out of Europe I will pull for Bayern over any English team. 

In normal circumstances I would agree with you, but we are not in normal circumstances; give the fans a break.


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## Junior (May 11, 2021)

Hearing Man Utd fans are planning to protest again on Thursday.   All for the right to protest but sadly it'll bring out the idiot fans and they'll be trouble.


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## Tashyboy (May 11, 2021)

Junior said:



			Hearing Man Utd fans are planning to protest again on Thursday.   All for the right to protest but sadly it'll bring out the idiot fans and they'll be trouble.
		
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I would Imagine Neville is already writing his rant.


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

Should have the CL final in Birmingham City’s ground.
It’s in the middle of both teams.
They don’t need a big capacity.
All profits should go to the lower division clubs.
What a great occasion for a lower league club.
Just a thought.
Sod Portugal keep the cash for our own clubs / fans.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2021)

Interesting Man Utd Team for the match tonight


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## fundy (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting Man Utd Team for the match tonight
		
Click to expand...

was always coming so they can be at full strength Thursday, Leicester should be laughing all the way to the Champions League


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## 4LEX (May 11, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Cavani has agreed to extend his contract by a season. A huge signing for United IMO, both on the pitch and for what he offers the younger players in training. His goals have been invaluable and would be brilliant to see him in front of a full Old Trafford.
		
Click to expand...

Only a good move if Martial is sold and world class striker signed. Otherwise it'll be a budget option, Cavani will get injured on a regular basis and Martial will kill the team with his dire movement, poor finishing and bad attitude.

Cavani is so impressive but it's his moverment and desire that sets him apart. Too much to ask a 35 year old with no pace to fire a side to the title, given the competition.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			was always coming so they can be at full strength Thursday, Leicester should be laughing all the way to the Champions League
		
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Yep it was certainly going to happen - certainly going to help Leicester with everyone else “punished” - and all because Man Utd fans stopped the game. Doesn’t feel right that there you go - just another thing from the last two seasons


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## Voyager EMH (May 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			was always coming so they can be at full strength Thursday, Leicester should be laughing all the way to the Champions League
		
Click to expand...

No laughter here yet. Nothing but nervous bottom clenching. Nightmares of 5th position and FA Cup runners up.


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## fundy (May 11, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			No laughter here yet. Nothing but nervous bottom clenching. Nightmares of 5th position and FA Cup runners up.
		
Click to expand...


I get that but gone from 4/1 outsiders to even money favs a massive opportunity at this stage of the season. Its West Ham I feel sorry for....


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 11, 2021)

Wow! Superb finish.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 11, 2021)

And another quality goal! Hope this continues😬


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## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep it was certainly going to happen - certainly going to help Leicester with everyone else “punished” - and all because Man Utd fans stopped the game. Doesn’t feel right that there you go
		
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Agreed Phil,it’s truly shocking.


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## 4LEX (May 11, 2021)

The game won't go ahead Thursday.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The game won't go ahead Thursday.
		
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I know there is another protest planned but if the game is cancelled again then it’s going to cause mayhem with the schedule


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## 4LEX (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know there is another protest planned but if the game is cancelled again then it’s going to cause mayhem with the schedule
		
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From my mates who have season tickets in Manchester anyway. Entire day of drinking, Thursday night K and the barriers put up around Old Trafford have been seen as an affront to the fans. I don't think it'll be as big in numbers but it'll be a lot more violent. I don't think the team are staying in a hotel before so that'll help. Maybe.

If it's off again should be a 3 point deduction IMO.


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			From my mates who have season tickets in Manchester anyway. Entire day of drinking, Thursday night K and the barriers put up around Old Trafford have been seen as an affront to the fans. I don't think it'll be as big in numbers but it'll be a lot more violent. I don't think the team are staying in a hotel before so that'll help. Maybe.

If it's off again should be a 3 point deduction IMO.
		
Click to expand...

They have had time to sort the security out.
So no excuses .


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## fundy (May 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The game won't go ahead Thursday.
		
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big statement that, will be half of greater manchester police there, the players wont stay in a city centre hotel before the game and everything will be done to get the game on. be very surprised if they cause enough of a problem to get it cancelled again


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## 4LEX (May 11, 2021)

How crap are Leicester? Sums up the season when this bunch are going to finish in the top 4.


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## fundy (May 11, 2021)

played some good stuff earlier in the year, seem to be trying to end in a heap again now the finish line is in sight yet again


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## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			How crap are Leicester? Sums up the season when this bunch are going to finish in the top 4.
		
Click to expand...

But Man Utd are going to finish 2nd & they’re bang average 🤷‍♂️


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## Voyager EMH (May 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



*How crap are Leicester? *Sums up the season when this bunch are going to finish in the top 4.
		
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I will give a heart-felt answer on Tuesday evening. Gob firmly shut till then.


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## fundy (May 11, 2021)

congrats City, over with plenty to spare


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## fundy (May 11, 2021)

how does Ndidi win motm tonight btw? gets it for constantly breaking the game up, also known as committing 6 fouls without the ref contemplating a card


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## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting Man Utd Team for the match tonight
		
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I remember when they used to be a big club.

Congratulations to Man City.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2021)

So that’s the title done for City and pretty much CL football all sorted as well after that result

A weakened team gave City the title and CL for Leicester.

All doesn’t sit right but there we go - West Ham fans will be a touch angry

Congrats to City though - head and shoulders above the rest this season


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## AmandaJR (May 11, 2021)

Always a bit weird to win it without playing but not complaining 

Anything after "Aguerooooooo. I swear you'll never see anything like this ever again" is always going to come up a bit short!


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## Fade and Die (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So that’s the title done for City and pretty much CL football all sorted as well after that result

A weakened team gave City the title and CL for Leicester.

All doesn’t sit right but there we go - West Ham fans will be a touch angry

Congrats to City though - head and shoulders above the rest this season
		
Click to expand...

Solskjaer’s done exactly what he has to do. He’s got a cup final coming up, another game in 2 days, so he’s using his squad. Why should he give a flying fig about West Ham or anyone else ?

We bombed out because we don’t have enough points. Our problem, not Solskjaer’s.


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## Voyager EMH (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So that’s the title done for City and pretty much CL football all sorted as well after that result

A weakened team gave City the title *and CL for Leicester.*

All doesn’t sit right but there we go - West Ham fans will be a touch angry

Congrats to City though - head and shoulders above the rest this season
		
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Anywhere from 2nd to 6th a possibility. Still no laughter. Chelsea Cup, then Chelsea, Spurs next games. But thanks for the confidence shown.


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Always a bit weird to win it without playing but not complaining 

Anything after "Aguerooooooo. I swear you'll never see anything like this ever again" is always going to come up a bit short!
		
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Yes that penalty was shocking!!

Well done to City.
They are good to watch and deserved winners!


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## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2021)

Played 30+ games this season,can’t really blame other teams selections for your failures 🤷‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Solskjaer’s done exactly what he has to do. He’s got a cup final coming up, another game in 2 days, so he’s using his squad. Why should he give a flying fig about West Ham or anyone else ?

We bombed out because we don’t have enough points. Our problem, not Solskjaer’s.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on .
His job is what’s best for UTD.
Anyone would do the same and have in the past.


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## Slime (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So that’s the title done for City and pretty much CL football all sorted as well after that result

*A weakened team gave City the title* and CL for Leicester.

All doesn’t sit right but there we go - West Ham fans will be a touch angry

Congrats to City though - head and shoulders above the rest this season
		
Click to expand...

Because if Utd had fielded a full strength team City wouldn't have won the title?
City weren't given the title, they won it by being the best team in the competition by a distance.
Utd are not the first, and won't be the last, to play a weakened team. 
It's a squad game and OGS did just what he had to. I'd have been disappointed if he hadn't.
United have much bigger fish to fry, OGS was simply prioritising.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Because if Utd had fielded a full strength team City wouldn't have won the title?
City weren't given the title, they won it by being the best team in the competition by a distance.
Utd are not the first, and won't be the last, to play a weakened team.
It's a squad game and OGS did just what he had to. I'd have been disappointed if he hadn't.
United have much bigger fish to fry, OGS was simply prioritising.
		
Click to expand...

Man Utd could have still won the title until tonight yes ? And there is a weakened team and then there is changing 10 players 

But the issue isn’t the team played it’s more down the fact that Man Utd fans rioted cause a game to be postponed- the teams that have suffered because of Man Utd fans aren’t Man Utd - it’s other teams because a club has had to play a weakened team. Doesn’t seem right that the clubs fans that caused the issue are the ones without any consequences


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## AmandaJR (May 11, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes that penalty was shocking!!

Well done to City.
They are good to watch and deserved winners!
		
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What penalty 

I hate criticising him but it was a shocker


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Played 30+ games this season,can’t really blame other teams selections for your failures 🤷‍♂️
		
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Injuries yes, other teams no!


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			What penalty 

I hate criticising him but it was a shocker 

Click to expand...

That’s all forgotten now.


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## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Spot on .
His job is what’s best for UTD.
Anyone would do the same and have in the past.
		
Click to expand...

Is it what's best for United though?

Just giving up the league like that, no matter how unlikely? 

If it was Liverpool tonight, Leicester Thursday, tonight would have seen him play his strongest team of the week.

They used to act like a big club, but like 2 years ago, thats gone out of the window.

Remember when Ferguson had a go at Leeds for "cheating their fans", well the chickens have come home to roost.


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## Tashyboy (May 11, 2021)

I think it would be a good idea if a fan of the winning prem league team starts next seasons Prem league post 2021-22. 
I nominate AmandaJR. 👍 seconder required 😁


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## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Injuries yes, other teams no!
		
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Strikers missing multiple chances to put games to bed? 
Players out of form?


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

Nice goal from Ings.
Proper goalscorer, if he stays fit !
Not sure about his defending for Bentekes goal.
CF should not be there imo ,stay on halfway line and make them mark you.


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think it would be a good idea if a fan of the winning prem league team starts next seasons Prem league post 2021-22.
I nominate AmandaJR. 👍 seconder required 😁
		
Click to expand...

I will second that!


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Strikers missing multiple chances to put games to bed?
Players out of form?
		
Click to expand...

Don’t,
We have three poor finishers .
But we make so many chances it masks it.


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## pokerjoke (May 11, 2021)

It's a squad game and OGS did just what he had to. I'd have been disappointed if he hadn't.
United have much bigger fish to fry, OGS was simply prioritising.[/QUOTE]

So handing City the title instead of letting them get over the line themselves is sensible.
Does he now play a really weak team against Liverpool? of course not.
So is Ole saying the Liverpool game is bigger than the P/L season?
Also if your worried about injuries why bring Fernandes on for 12 minutes risking injury,mental.


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## Slime (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Man Utd could have still won the title until tonight yes ?* And there is a weakened team and then there is changing 10 players

But the issue isn’t the team played it’s more down the fact that Man Utd fans rioted cause a game to be postponed- the teams that have suffered because of Man Utd fans aren’t Man Utd - it’s other teams because a club has had to play a weakened team. *Doesn’t seem right that the clubs fans that caused the issue are the ones without any consequences*

Click to expand...

Mathematically yes, in the real world, no.
I totally agree, I hope all those who broke the law are brought to justice both swiftly and harshly.


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## 4LEX (May 11, 2021)

Without doubt the worst season in PL history. City bang average for the start and finish, just a crazy 25 game run in the middle. Utd absolute garbage, relegation places on first half performances, Champions on second halfs. Not the basis for a title challenge as too scattergun. More likely they'll carry on starting badly and not overturning it and finish 4-6th.

Chelsea have shown the difference between a young and clueless manager and a world class one. Surprised if they don't contend next season. Liverpool I can't even describe. Major changes needed I think in the midfield and upfront.

Leicester probably deserve more credit for their achievement, even if they were scrappy tonight. Rodgers sorted them out at half time and they ran the show second.

Moyes or Pep for Manager of the year?

Bruno for Play of the year.


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## pokerjoke (May 11, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I will second that!
		
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Give her a few days to celebrate


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## Lord Tyrion (May 11, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think it would be a good idea if a fan of the winning prem league team starts next seasons Prem league post 2021-22.
I nominate AmandaJR. 👍 seconder required 😁
		
Click to expand...




clubchamp98 said:



			I will second that!
		
Click to expand...

@AmandaJR , put it in your diary. Fixture release day 👍

It will be a big relief. Every so often my tablet goes to page 1 when I click this thread. It's awful


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## fundy (May 11, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



@AmandaJR , put it in your diary. Fixture release day 👍

It will be a big relief. Every so often my tablet goes to page 1 when I click this thread. It's awful 

Click to expand...


just like a car crash, i had to look didnt i lol


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## pokerjoke (May 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Without doubt the worst season in PL history. City bang average for the start and finish, just a crazy 25 game run in the middle. Utd absolute garbage, relegation places on first half performances, Champions on second halfs. Not the basis for a title challenge as too scattergun. More likely they'll carry on starting badly and not overturning it and finish 4-6th.

Chelsea have shown the difference between a young and clueless manager and a world class one. Surprised if they don't contend next season. Liverpool I can't even describe. Major changes needed I think in the midfield and upfront.

Leicester probably deserve more credit for their achievement, even if they were scrappy tonight. Rodgers sorted them out at half time and they ran the show second.

Moyes or Pep for Manager of the year?

Bruno for Play of the year.
		
Click to expand...

The year Liverpool won it was the worst by miles


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is it what's best for United though?

Just giving up the league like that, no matter how unlikely?

If it was Liverpool tonight, Leicester Thursday, tonight would have seen him play his strongest team of the week.

They used to act like a big club, but like 2 years ago, thats gone out of the window.

Remember when Ferguson had a go at Leeds for "cheating their fans", well the chickens have come home to roost.
		
Click to expand...

All footy managers have two faces we all know that.
Phil is partly right the fans caused this problem with no consequences as such.
Klopp would do the same thing if it was the right thing for Liverpool.

I don’t blame OGS . Some of his own fans might not like it !
The table dosnt lie.
But UTD v Leicester isn’t UTD v Liverpool.


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## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			It's a squad game and OGS did just what he had to. I'd have been disappointed if he hadn't.
United have much bigger fish to fry, OGS was simply prioritising.
		
Click to expand...

So handing City the title instead of letting them get over the line themselves is sensible.
Does he now play a really weak team against Liverpool? of course not.
So is Ole saying the Liverpool game is bigger than the P/L season?
Also if your worried about injuries why bring Fernandes on for 12 minutes risking injury,mental.[/QUOTE]

He has bowed to the wishes of your more obsessed fan's wants.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 11, 2021)

City made 9 changes at the weekend from the team that beat PSG, maybe Pep didn’t want to win the PL, lost to Chelsea on purpose. City should be fined for playing a weakened side…said nobody ever.

City fans are probably fumin at OGS ruining the plan.

Congratulations to City, fully deserved and not won by Utd’s Team selection in one match.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Always a bit weird to win it without playing but not complaining 

Anything after "Aguerooooooo. I swear you'll never see anything like this ever again" is always going to come up a bit short!
		
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In the last ten years it’s been 5 titles and 5 second places 😲 , I expect that’s a record never seen before over a ten year period


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Give her a few days to celebrate

Click to expand...

They won it months ago???


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## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			All footy managers have two faces we all know that.
Phil is partly right the fans caused this problem with no consequences as such.
Klopp would do the same thing if it was the right thing for Liverpool.

I don’t blame OGS . Some of his own fans might not like it !
The table dosnt lie.
But UTD v Leicester isn’t UTD v Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

No it's not, but throwing the league away to try and get a result against your biggest rivals shows a small club mentality.

I didnt expect "favours" obviously, but he could have played a team tonight and Thursday that was 75% strong by using his squad, rather than one that is 25% "strong" and one that will be his best available. 

We should have done more ourselves throughout the season, even with the interminable injuries, but you expect a bit of integrity from the "world's biggest club" TM.


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## Papas1982 (May 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Without doubt the worst season in PL history. City bang average for the start and finish, just a crazy 25 game run in the middle. Utd absolute garbage, relegation places on first half performances, Champions on second halfs. Not the basis for a title challenge as too scattergun. More likely they'll carry on starting badly and not overturning it and finish 4-6th.

Chelsea have shown the difference between a young and clueless manager and a world class one. Surprised if they don't contend next season. Liverpool I can't even describe. Major changes needed I think in the midfield and upfront.

Leicester probably deserve more credit for their achievement, even if they were scrappy tonight. Rodgers sorted them out at half time and they ran the show second.

Moyes or Pep for Manager of the year?

Bruno for Play of the year.
		
Click to expand...

Son or Kane for me.

Both done more in a worse team. 

Bruno is good, but his penalties bulk his stats too much imo.


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## Papas1982 (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In the last ten years it’s been 5 titles and 5 second places 😲 , I expect that’s a record never seen before over a ten year period
		
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Well you're kinda right. It was 7 titles and 3 seconds for UTD between 91-03.

Thought you'd have know that 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Son or Kane for me.

Both done more in a worse team.

Bruno is good, but his penalties bulk his stats too much imo.
		
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Player of the Season for me 

From 

Foden
Dias
Mahrez 
Soucek

Dias prob the standout as he filled that missing gap for City


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No it's not, but throwing the league away to try and get a result against your biggest rivals shows a small club mentality.

I didnt expect "favours" obviously, but he could have played a team tonight and Thursday that was 75% strong by using his squad, rather than one that is 25% "strong" and one that will be his best available.

We should have done more ourselves throughout the season, even with the interminable injuries, but you expect a bit of integrity from the "world's biggest club" TM.
		
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Given the situation I think he did exactly the right thing.
Just one note to it the lack of fans allowed him to do it.
As I am sure 70,000 fans would not have liked that tonight.

Apart from Jota we havnt got a proper finisher and this season it has bitten us.
Mo scores but misses to many to put games to bed.


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## Papas1982 (May 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No it's not, but throwing the league away to try and get a result against your biggest rivals shows a small club mentality.

I didnt expect "favours" obviously, but he could have played a team tonight and Thursday that was 75% strong by using his squad, rather than one that is 25% "strong" and one that will be his best available.

We should have done more ourselves throughout the season, even with the interminable injuries, but you expect a bit of integrity from the "world's biggest club" TM.
		
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Could Liverpool have taken half their squad around the world and kept a few back for villa last year Pete?

Maybe he feels like the league deserved him to play a full strenght team against you as that's what he would have done for the original fixture. 

So whilst it may have helped and hindered others. Maybe he's actually doing the right thing and planning he's strongest team as he would have done.


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## Papas1982 (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Player of the Season for me

From

Foden
Dias
Mahrez
Soucek

Dias prob the standout as he filled that missing gap for City
		
Click to expand...

Dias and Soucek both good shouts.

Down looks class, but not sure he has carried the team as such.
Mahrez I'm good form but 13 goal contributions all season is too low for player of the season in his position.


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## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No it's not, but throwing the league away to try and get a result against your biggest rivals shows a small club mentality.

I didnt expect "favours" obviously, but he could have played a team tonight and Thursday that was 75% strong by using his squad, rather than one that is 25% "strong" and one that will be his best available.

We should have done more ourselves throughout the season, even with the interminable injuries, but you expect a bit of integrity from the "world's biggest club" TM.
		
Click to expand...

Here we go again 🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🤦‍♂️


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## pokerjoke (May 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is it what's best for United though?

Just giving up the league like that, no matter how unlikely? 

If it was Liverpool tonight, Leicester Thursday, tonight would have seen him play his strongest team of the week.

They used to act like a big club, but like 2 years ago, thats gone out of the window.

Remember when Ferguson had a go at Leeds for "cheating their fans", well the chickens have come home to roost.
		
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Totally agree
Play the whole season then just drop it like a stone,bloody infuriating.


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

Foden for me.


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## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Given the situation I think he did exactly the right thing.
Just one note to it the lack of fans allowed him to do it.
As I am sure 70,000 fans would not have liked that tonight.

Apart from Jota we havnt got a proper finisher and this season it has bitten us.
Mo scores but misses to many to put games to bed.
		
Click to expand...

70k made no difference when they let city beat them at home 2 years ago. In the last few minutes, Man U just kept the ball, hardly attacked despite being 1 nil down. I wonder why?????? All gladly accepted the loss.

A bit different to when we beat Blackburn at Anfield, that they didn't take advantage of. Therein lies the difference.


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## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Could Liverpool have taken half their squad around the world and kept a few back for villa last year Pete?

Maybe he feels like the league deserved him to play a full strenght team against you as that's what he would have done for the original fixture.

So whilst it may have helped and hindered others. Maybe he's actually doing the right thing and planning he's strongest team as he would have done.
		
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We had a three games out in Qatar, not just one, and a league title wasnt at stake.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2021)

So Zaha ( once again ) goes down under the slightest touch in the box 

The pundits - “clever from Zaha” “won the penalty” - no it was a dive because the touch wasn’t in anyway strong enough for him to go down.


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## pokerjoke (May 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No it's not, but throwing the league away to try and get a result against your biggest rivals shows a small club mentality.

I didnt expect "favours" obviously, but he could have played a team tonight and Thursday that was 75% strong by using his squad, rather than one that is 25% "strong" and one that will be his best available. 

We should have done more ourselves throughout the season, even with the interminable injuries, but you expect a bit of integrity from the "world's biggest club" TM.
		
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I must be ill that’s twice I’ve agreed with you.
I couldn’t believe it when I saw the team sheet ,I actually thought we were in the C/L final at the weekend


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## AmandaJR (May 11, 2021)

If I could have playercam on one player (trying to see through slightly biased specs) then it would be Foden. Player of this season and many to come I hope. He's a joy to watch.


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## Papas1982 (May 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			We had a three games out in Qatar, not just one, and a league title wasnt at stake.
		
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Let's be honest Pete. You had more chance of winning the cup that utd did the league.

You wrote off a comp for something you seemed bigger. 

Utd did the same. And also, maybe just maybe did so for the integrity of the league by making you play a string team like you would have last week


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## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I must be ill that’s twice I’ve agreed with you.
I couldn’t believe it when I saw the team sheet ,I actually thought we were in the C/L final at the weekend

Click to expand...

Go and have a lie down, Tony, it'll soon pass.


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## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Let's be honest Pete. You had more chance of winning the cup that utd did the league.

You wrote off a comp for something you seemed bigger.

Utd did the same. And also, maybe just maybe did so for the integrity of the league by making you play a string team like you would have last week
		
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You dont throw leagues away to your city rivals, without shedding blood.

Your saying man u have shown integrity - sorry mate, even trying to see an opinion out of left field, I just dont know where you get that from?????


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## fundy (May 11, 2021)

Am a massive Foden fan, but hes started 15 prem games plus 11 as sub, been on the pitch for less than half the time City have played, scored 7 goals and had 5 assists

Cracking player and will be a world beater, but not player of the year for me, not enough of a contribution

Would be choosing between Dias, Fernandes and Kane, think Dias shades it


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Zaha ( once again ) goes down under the slightest touch in the box

The pundits - “clever from Zaha” “won the penalty” - no it was a dive because the touch wasn’t in anyway strong enough for him to go down.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t like this.
He delibaretly put his leg in front of Redmond .
They all do it Owen was good at it .
That’s why pundits will be no better than refs in the VAR box.


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## Papas1982 (May 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			You dont throw leagues away to your city rivals, without shedding blood.

Your saying man u have shown integrity - sorry mate, even trying to see an opinion out of left field, I just dont know where you get that from?????
		
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Because they should have played a full strenght team against you last week. 

So if they had gone full against leicester and then weak against you. You've benefitted where you shouldn't have. 

And they didnt throw a league away. They may have given up on it. But that's two different things.


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## fundy (May 11, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Because they should have played a full strenght team against you last week. 

So if they had gone full against leicester and then weak against you. You've benefitted where you shouldn't have. 

And they didnt throw a league away. They may have given up on it. But that's two different things.
		
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why did they have to play a weak side against one and full strength in the other, why not rest 5 for each game?


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## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			why did they have to play a weak side against one and full strength in the other, why not rest 5 for each game?
		
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Papas - as this.

They could have easily done the 60/30, play 60 minutes today, 30 minutes Thursday if required. Man U do have a big squad.

Again, I wouldnt expect any favours, and always expected him to keep more of his better players for our game, but he could have easily have picked a decent team for both.


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## GG26 (May 11, 2021)

The big difference for Leicester this season is that they have beaten all of the “big 6” in the league this season, whereas last year we struggled to get anything against them.


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## Tashyboy (May 11, 2021)

GG26 said:



			The big difference for Leicester this season is that they have beaten all of the “big 6” in the league this season, whereas last year we struggled to get anything against them.
		
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If memory serves me right you’d didn’t beat City, you battered them.


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## davemc1 (May 11, 2021)

Congrats to City, a wonderful feeling. Yous even have the benefit of open pubs to celebrate 👍🏻

Roll on August, it’s been a horrible season for me, both football wise and no fans.


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## SaintHacker (May 11, 2021)

And at the other end of the table, its nice to remember what it feels like to actually win a game!


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## BiMGuy (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			West Ham fans will be a touch angry
		
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So, less angry than normal then? 😁


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## SaintHacker (May 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Zaha ( once again ) goes down under the slightest touch in the box

The pundits - “clever from Zaha” “won the penalty” - no it was a dive because the touch wasn’t in anyway strong enough for him to go down.
		
Click to expand...

When I first saw it I thought Redmond had trod on his heel so it was a pen, but just seen it again now and yeah he clearly waits for a brush then flops. The blokes just a cheat. And another one looked at by var but not corrected.


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## Swingalot (May 11, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			When I first saw it I thought Redmond had trod on his heel so it was a pen, but just seen it again now and yeah he clearly waits for a brush then flops. The blokes just a cheat. And another one looked at by var but not corrected.
		
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 A brush? Wow.
And if Zaha is a cheat, how would you describe Ward Proyce? Enjoy your win, your team played well, but don't throw stones in massive glass houses.


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## SaintHacker (May 11, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			A brush? Wow.
And if Zaha is a cheat, how would you describe Ward Proyce? Enjoy your win, your team played well, but don't throw stones in massive glass houses.
		
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A brush, a tickle, whatever you want to call it, he's thrown himself to the floor after absolutely minimal contact, which is cheating. And lets be fair he's got plenty of form for it.
Not sure why you're bringing Ward Prowse into it? A more honest player you would be hard pushed to find 🤷


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## 4LEX (May 11, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Foden for me.
		
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Bruno different class in a vastly inferior team. Goal/assist ratio no one can get anywhere near.


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## Papas1982 (May 12, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Bruno different class in a vastly inferior team. Goal/assist ratio no one can get anywhere near.
		
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Pardon?

                  Goals.        Asssists.        pens.      Minutes
Kane.            21.            13.                4         2813
Son              17.             11.                 1        2849
Fernandes     17.             10.                 9         2921

looks like he’s beaten by two in a team ”vastly inferior”. with penalties that make him look close.....


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## howbow88 (May 12, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Not sure why you're bringing Ward Prowse into it? A more honest player you would be hard pushed to find 🤷
		
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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Bruno different class in a vastly inferior team. Goal/assist ratio no one can get anywhere near.
		
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Easy to stand out in a poor team.
Not so easy to stand out in the champions.
Opinions vary.


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## Tashyboy (May 12, 2021)

One player has helped  turn City round, he has done the same as what VVD has done at Liverpool. Dias, anyone that helps to make Stones look good is doing a good job. City’s defence is looking solid. Something that has never been said about City in the past.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			One player has helped  turn City round, he has done the same as what VVD has done at Liverpool. Dias, anyone that helps to make Stones look good is doing a good job. City’s defence is looking solid. Something that has never been said about City in the past.
		
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Rubbish Tashy, the only reason you won the PL is because OGS played a weakened team last night.


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## Tashyboy (May 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Rubbish Tashy, the only reason you won the PL is because OGS played a weakened team last night.

Click to expand...

😂😂😂 behave you bad man. It’s easier to say that than congrats City 👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			😂😂😂 behave you bad man. It’s easier to say that than congrats City 👍
		
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Just like every season, the best team wins the League, highlighting 1 game or 1 instance in a whole season is pathetic.

Dias is certainly Player of the Season for me.


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## Orikoru (May 12, 2021)

Now the season is over is it time for team of the seasons? Gary & Jamie already did theirs so it's fair game I think.

Lloris
Cancelo - Fofana - R.Dias - Shaw
Soucek - Gundogan
Mahrez - B.Fernandes - Son
Kane

Bench: E.Martinez, J.Justin, Stones, Mount, Foden, Grealish, Salah​


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 12, 2021)

GK - Mendy

Defence:

Dias
Cancelo
Wan B
Godfrey

Midfield:

Foden
Fernandes
De Bruyne
Grealish

Forwards:

Salah
Kane


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2021)

Lloris 😂😂😂

Anyway team of the year for me 

Martinez 

Wan Bissaka
Dias
Evans
Shaw

Soucek
Gundogen 
Fernandes

Foden
Kane
Salah

Subs

Ederson
Maguire
James
Rice
Mahrez
Kante


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## Bdill93 (May 12, 2021)

Martinez

Walker
Dias
Konsa
Shaw

Rice
KDB
Foden

Grealish
Kane
Salah


Subs
Ederson
Gundogan
Mahrez
Son
Targett
James
Mount


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2021)

No one suggested or stated that City won the league because of one game but that doesn’t fit the rhetoric.


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## GB72 (May 12, 2021)

Not meant in any way other than I simply do not know the answer but is there actually any rule in place the requires the playing of your strongest team. I only ask because, whilst I can see and appreciate many of the points being made, there have been a couple of calls in the media for points deductions for putting a B team out but I wondered whether there is any actual basis in the rules for that or whether it is just rhetoric and hyperbole. 

As a follower of Leicester City (as I have said on here a few times, I do not get involved enough in football to class myself a fan) I am not disappointed as I really saw us struggling to get many more points out of the rest of the season. That said, if Leicester had safely qualified for Europe, I am not sure that we would have seen their first team out either with the cup final coming up. Irrespective of any impact on the rest of the league, I do not expect to see Man Citys first team out much, if at all, before the champions league final and I am sure Chelsea would have been resting players if their place in the Champions League for next year were assured. Rivalry issues will mean that Man United I suspect will put a full team out on Thursday and then, again, I expect a number of players to be wrapped in cotton wool until the Europa League final. Guess it is just the benefit of achieving your goals for the season with matches to spare.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 12, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not meant in any way other than I simply do not know the answer but is there actually any rule in place the requires the playing of your strongest team. I only ask because, whilst I can see and appreciate many of the points being made, there have been a couple of calls in the media for points deductions for putting a B team out but I wondered whether there is any actual basis in the rules for that or whether it is just rhetoric and hyperbole.

As a follower of Leicester City (as I have said on here a few times, I do not get involved enough in football to class myself a fan) I am not disappointed as I really saw us struggling to get many more points out of the rest of the season. That said, if Leicester had safely qualified for Europe, I am not sure that we would have seen their first team out either with the cup final coming up. Irrespective of any impact on the rest of the league, I do not expect to see Man Citys first team out much, if at all, before the champions league final and I am sure Chelsea would have been resting players if their place in the Champions League for next year were assured. Rivalry issues will mean that Man United I suspect will put a full team out on Thursday and then, again, I expect a number of players to be wrapped in cotton wool until the Europa League final. Guess it is just the benefit of achieving your goals for the season with matches to spare.
		
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You can only beat the team put out in front of you, each manager can only decide what’s best for his team/club.

Leics won, City win the PL, no congratulating either team, but let’s all talk about the effect on Lpool

None of this rubbish at the weekend when City (9) and Chelsea (5) changed their teams, nobody called for City to have points deducted etc, but the media darlings are involved and answers are demanded.

It has nothing to do with LPool what team Utd put out on Thursday, to me it is getting excuses ready, Lpool already have an extra days rest from the weekend and I’d state 100% Klopp will be preparing his team to beat the best team Utd put out.


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not meant in any way other than I simply do not know the answer but is there actually any rule in place the requires the playing of your strongest team. I only ask because, whilst I can see and appreciate many of the points being made, there have been a couple of calls in the media for points deductions for putting a B team out but I wondered whether there is any actual basis in the rules for that or whether it is just rhetoric and hyperbole.

As a follower of Leicester City (as I have said on here a few times, I do not get involved enough in football to class myself a fan) I am not disappointed as I really saw us struggling to get many more points out of the rest of the season. That said, if Leicester had safely qualified for Europe, I am not sure that we would have seen their first team out either with the cup final coming up. Irrespective of any impact on the rest of the league, I do not expect to see Man Citys first team out much, if at all, before the champions league final and I am sure Chelsea would have been resting players if their place in the Champions League for next year were assured. Rivalry issues will mean that Man United I suspect will put a full team out on Thursday and then, again, I expect a number of players to be wrapped in cotton wool until the Europa League final. Guess it is just the benefit of achieving your goals for the season with matches to spare.
		
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Teams have a squad declared think it’s 25.
So no such thing as a B team anymore really.
Except in cups you can play the  kids


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not meant in any way other than I simply do not know the answer but is there actually any rule in place the requires the playing of your strongest team. I only ask because, whilst I can see and appreciate many of the points being made, there have been a couple of calls in the media for points deductions for putting a B team out but I wondered whether there is any actual basis in the rules for that or whether it is just rhetoric and hyperbole.

As a follower of Leicester City (as I have said on here a few times, I do not get involved enough in football to class myself a fan) I am not disappointed as I really saw us struggling to get many more points out of the rest of the season. That said, if Leicester had safely qualified for Europe, I am not sure that we would have seen their first team out either with the cup final coming up. Irrespective of any impact on the rest of the league, I do not expect to see Man Citys first team out much, if at all, before the champions league final and I am sure Chelsea would have been resting players if their place in the Champions League for next year were assured. Rivalry issues will mean that Man United I suspect will put a full team out on Thursday and then, again, I expect a number of players to be wrapped in cotton wool until the Europa League final. Guess it is just the benefit of achieving your goals for the season with matches to spare.
		
Click to expand...

About ten years ago there was a rule about making two many changes - a couple of teams were fined from making ten changes , Blackpool were one , then a bigger club made whole sale changes before a CL tie and nothing happened so it didn’t go down well

They then changed the rule to allow that many changes but must be from the 25 man squad then it was changed again to allow players not registered ( youth players )

The issue for me wasn’t the team selection - OGS did what all managers would have done , the FA refused to move a cup tie last year for us so we had to make a choice

For me the issue is the actions that happened last week - a clubs fans protested escalated into a violent protest that caused a game to be cancelled , the game was then rearranged for this week meaning Man Utd had to play 3 games in 7 days - so they did wholesale changes. Because of those changes a team fighting for CL played against a weakened team , that affected other teams but didn’t really affect the club whose fans caused the issue. Other clubs have suffered because of that incident whilst Man Utd appear to have got of free. I still think the game should have been cancelled last week and the points awarded and then Man Utd wouldn’t have been forced to play a weakened team.

We won’t miss out on CL because Man Utd fielded a weakened team - lots of other reasons , but until yesterday the race for that very lucrative spot was very open and it was closed mainly because that game was postponed last week


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## road2ruin (May 12, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not meant in any way other than I simply do not know the answer but is there actually any rule in place the requires the playing of your strongest team. I only ask because, whilst I can see and appreciate many of the points being made, there have been a couple of calls in the media for points deductions for putting a B team out but I wondered whether there is any actual basis in the rules for that or whether it is just rhetoric and hyperbole.

As a follower of Leicester City (as I have said on here a few times, I do not get involved enough in football to class myself a fan) I am not disappointed as I really saw us struggling to get many more points out of the rest of the season. That said, if Leicester had safely qualified for Europe, I am not sure that we would have seen their first team out either with the cup final coming up. Irrespective of any impact on the rest of the league, I do not expect to see Man Citys first team out much, if at all, before the champions league final and I am sure Chelsea would have been resting players if their place in the Champions League for next year were assured. Rivalry issues will mean that Man United I suspect will put a full team out on Thursday and then, again, I expect a number of players to be wrapped in cotton wool until the Europa League final. Guess it is just the benefit of achieving your goals for the season with matches to spare.
		
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At this point in the season there is always an element of luck as to who you have to play in the last few games of a season. You'll have a combination of teams who are in cup finals and their league season has pettered out so they'll have less interest in the league. Some teams will still be trying to avoid relegation whilst the mid-table teams have nothing left to play for. It is unfortunate (or fortunate) if you are affected by this but for those saying that it affects the integrity of the league is laughable. Teams have squads, they can play whoever they like and the other teams have to live with it. Liverpool fans can blame United for putting out a weaker side against Leicester however that's just diverting away from the truth that they've been appalling this season and the run of 5/6 losses in a row was the reason that they're in this position, not because a team prioritised one game over another. Likewise, wouldn't be suprised if City put out a weaker side in the league now as they are 100% focussed on the CL final. That's life.


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## road2ruin (May 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I still think the game should have been cancelled last week and the points awarded and then Man Utd wouldn’t have been forced to play a weakened team.
		
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But that's only because it would have benefitted you. What about all the other teams around Liverpool who would have then been up in arms about Liverpool being given free points? If Liverpool were one of those sides I don't see you agreeing with your solution quite so easily.


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## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You can only beat the team put out in front of you, each manager can only decide what’s best for his team/club.

Leics won, City win the PL, no congratulating either team, but let’s all talk about the effect on Lpool

None of this rubbish at the weekend when City (9) and Chelsea (5) changed their teams, nobody called for City to have points deducted etc, but the media darlings are involved and answers are demanded.

It has nothing to do with LPool what team Utd put out on Thursday, to me it is getting excuses ready, Lpool already have an extra days rest from the weekend and I’d state 100% Klopp will be preparing his team to beat the best team Utd put out.
		
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4 Liverpool fans at least have offered congratulations to city, so maybe you have your "filter" on that takes out things that people post so you can make things up which you have done many times in the past.

Thats two embarassing gaffes in 24 hours.


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## GB72 (May 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			About ten years ago there was a rule about making two many changes - a couple of teams were fined from making ten changes , Blackpool were one , then a bigger club made whole sale changes before a CL tie and nothing happened so it didn’t go down well

They then changed the rule to allow that many changes but must be from the 25 man squad then it was changed again to allow players not registered ( youth players )

The issue for me wasn’t the team selection - OGS did what all managers would have done , the FA refused to move a cup tie last year for us so we had to make a choice

For me the issue is the actions that happened last week - a clubs fans protested escalated into a violent protest that caused a game to be cancelled , the game was then rearranged for this week meaning Man Utd had to play 3 games in 7 days - so they did wholesale changes. Because of those changes a team fighting for CL played against a weakened team , that affected other teams but didn’t really affect the club whose fans caused the issue. Other clubs have suffered because of that incident whilst Man Utd appear to have got of free. I still think the game should have been cancelled last week and the points awarded and then Man Utd wouldn’t have been forced to play a weakened team.
		
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Fair points and I have sympathy about the way the match abandonment was dealt with. That said, with European qualification secure and a Europa League final to play, would they have put a weakened side out anyway. What were the chances of them playing the strong side only once for the rest of the season, the home match with fans present.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			But that's only because it would have benefitted you. What about all the other teams around Liverpool who would have then been up in arms about Liverpool being given free points? If Liverpool were one of those sides I don't see you agreeing with your solution quite so easily.
		
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Any game that is forced to be postponed because of the clubs fans actions imo should be forfeited and points awarded to the opposition - regardless of who is involved. A fans protest ended up with a game being unable to play - and it seems nothing has been done about it.

But at the very least look at rearranging the game when it’s not going to have such a dramatic affect on a lot of crucial games


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 12, 2021)

Integrity?


Liverbirdie said:



			4 Liverpool fans at least have offered congratulations to city, so maybe you have your "filter" on that takes out things that people post so you can make things up which you have done many times in the past.

Thats two embarassing gaffes in 24 hours.
		
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Embarassing, I didn’t use the word integrity?


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## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not meant in any way other than I simply do not know the answer but is there actually any rule in place the requires the playing of your strongest team. I only ask because, whilst I can see and appreciate many of the points being made, there have been a couple of calls in the media for points deductions for putting a B team out but I wondered whether there is any actual basis in the rules for that or whether it is just rhetoric and hyperbole.

As a follower of Leicester City (as I have said on here a few times, I do not get involved enough in football to class myself a fan) I am not disappointed as I really saw us struggling to get many more points out of the rest of the season. That said, if Leicester had safely qualified for Europe, I am not sure that we would have seen their first team out either with the cup final coming up. Irrespective of any impact on the rest of the league, I do not expect to see Man Citys first team out much, if at all, before the champions league final and I am sure Chelsea would have been resting players if their place in the Champions League for next year were assured. Rivalry issues will mean that Man United I suspect will put a full team out on Thursday and then, again, I expect a number of players to be wrapped in cotton wool until the Europa League final. Guess it is just the benefit of achieving your goals for the season with matches to spare.
		
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There have been rules in the past, not sure if they are still there.

Despite what some are saying, we werent expecting a strong United team against Leicester, but he could easily have made it stronger without necessarily weakening it too much for Thursday's game.

They also gave up on the league to their near neighbours (but not biggest rivals).

The Europa final is still a few more weeks away.


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## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			But that's only because it would have benefitted you. What about all the other teams around Liverpool who would have then been up in arms about Liverpool being given free points? If Liverpool were one of those sides I don't see you agreeing with your solution quite so easily.
		
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I dont agree with getting awarded the points, BTW.


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## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Integrity?

Embarassing, I didn’t use the word integrity?

View attachment 36586

Click to expand...

Reina, Pennant, Fowler it looks good to me.

Everyone has put out weakened teams at times, and when it can affect relegations etc, I'm against going too far. This was too far.

Still deleting Liverpool fan congratulations, or looking for where we have said one game has affected the league, or just brushing it under the carpet? Maybe that armchair is too heavy to move?????


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## road2ruin (May 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			There have been rules in the past, not sure if they are still there.

Despite what some are saying, we werent expecting a strong United team against Leicester, but he could easily have made it stronger without necessarily weakening it too much for Thursday's game.

They also gave up on the league to their near neighbours (but not biggest rivals).

The Europa final is still a few more weeks away.
		
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Granted, I agree that the league was still mathematically still not done however in reality everyone knows it was, even playing our strongest side and winning all our remaining games I cannot see City losing it from their position. 

In terms of the Europa Final, again I agree, it is still a few more weeks away however this is the biggest game of the season now, nothing else matters so why risk a longer term injury? Does it really matter if you finish 2nd or 4th at this point when CL qualification is done for next season but you still have the 2nd biggest European match in the calender left to play? As a manager I wouldn't be risking anyone needlessly with that one on the horizon especially with the stick OGS has taken from many of United's own fans.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Reina, Pennant, Fowler it looks good to me.

Everyone has put out weakened teams at times, and when it can affect relegations etc, I'm against going too far. This was too far.

Still deleting Liverpool fan congratulations, or looking for where we have said one game has affected the league, or just brushing it under the carpet? Maybe that armchair is too heavy to move?????
		
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I’m still laughing at integrity and Lpool being used in the same sentence.


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## Bdill93 (May 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Any game that is forced to be postponed because of the clubs fans actions imo should be forfeited and points awarded to the opposition - regardless of who is involved.* A fans protest ended up with a game being unable to play - and it seems nothing has been done about it.

But at the very least look at rearranging the game when it’s not going to have such a dramatic affect on a lot of crucial games
		
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I agree here. 

Totally different point but racism in the football stands/ crowds could be tackled with this method of approach.


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## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Granted, I agree that the league was still mathematically still not done however in reality everyone knows it was, even playing our strongest side and winning all our remaining games I cannot see City losing it from their position.

In terms of the Europa Final, again I agree, it is still a few more weeks away however this is the biggest game of the season now, nothing else matters so why risk a longer term injury? Does it really matter if you finish 2nd or 4th at this point when CL qualification is done for next season but you still have the 2nd biggest European match in the calender left to play? As a manager I wouldn't be risking anyone needlessly with that one on the horizon especially with the stick OGS has taken from many of United's own fans.
		
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Ok, but lets see who he risks tomorrow night, then?


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## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m still laughing at integrity and Lpool being used in the same sentence.
		
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Maybe you just enjoy making lies up then, hasnt been the first time you've done that on here.

The bigger man may have apologised for getting it soooooo wrong.


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## Beezerk (May 12, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I agree here. 

Totally different point but racism in the football stands/ crowds could be tackled with this method of approach.
		
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I think it's a ludicrous suggestion, imagine a bunch of Everton fans marauding as Liverpool fans and protest/ kick off at Anfield getting the game postponed. It would be quite funny though 😆😉


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## Bdill93 (May 12, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I think it's a ludicrous suggestion, imagine a bunch of Everton fans marauding as Liverpool fans and protest/ kick off at Anfield getting the game postponed. It would be quite funny though 😆😉
		
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While I see your point, you'd struggle to actually get that situation in many premier league outfits. In the 2019/20 season Villa only had about 6k match tickets to sell per game and they went to people with prior booking history. Gone are the days that you can just buy a ticket to any game for any team - especially with bigger clubs. 

Outside the grounds/ social media/ fan raids or riots I totally see your point and agree with it!


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## ColchesterFC (May 12, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I think it's a ludicrous suggestion, imagine a bunch of Everton fans marauding as Liverpool fans and protest/ kick off at Anfield getting the game postponed. It would be quite funny though 😆😉
		
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I was thinking the same. What if it came down to the last game of the season with Liverpool needing to win and Chelsea to lose to overtake them for a CL place. What's to stop Liverpool fans buying Chelsea shirts and getting the game called off knowing that Chelsea will forfeit the points?


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## Beezerk (May 12, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			While I see your point, you'd struggle to actually get that situation in many premier league outfits. In the 2019/20 season Villa only had about 6k match tickets to sell per game and they went to people with prior booking history. Gone are the days that you can just buy a ticket to any game for any team - especially with bigger clubs. 

Outside the grounds/ social media/ fan raids or riots I totally see your point and agree with it!
		
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I was thinking more about your last point, outside the stadium, it would be open house for opposing fans to abuse it.


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I think it's a ludicrous suggestion, imagine a bunch of Everton fans marauding as Liverpool fans and protest/ kick off at Anfield getting the game postponed. It would be quite funny though 😆😉
		
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No chance .
My mate hit an iron off the first tee once because he wouldn’t use a RED tee.
His son had emptied his bag!
Can’t see him in a Liverpool scarf.


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I was thinking more about your last point, outside the stadium, it would be open house for opposing fans to abuse it.
		
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Clubs are not liable for anything outside the stadium I always thought.
In Utd case they were inside ,as security was piss poor.
That should be more of a concern to them, how those fans got in so easy.


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## hairball_89 (May 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I was thinking the same. What if it came down to the last game of the season with Liverpool needing to win and Chelsea to lose to overtake them for a CL place. What's to stop Liverpool fans buying Chelsea shirts and getting the game called off knowing that Chelsea will forfeit the points?
		
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I think everyone in this thread is well aware that if this were the case, this current Liverpool team would go 1-0 up inside 3 mins. And then concede to a last minute benteke header and still not make CL.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe you just enjoy making lies up then, hasnt been the first time you've done that on here.

The bigger man may have apologised for getting it soooooo wrong.
		
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You just love the personal attacks, quite happy for you to show were I’ve lied, if I’ve made a mistake and it’s been pointed out I’ve apologised, you only come on here to moan, how about posting something original?

4 Teams were affected by Utd getting beat last night, only 1 set of fans whining.


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## Orikoru (May 12, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not meant in any way other than I simply do not know the answer but is there actually any rule in place the requires the playing of your strongest team. I only ask because, whilst I can see and appreciate many of the points being made, there have been a couple of calls in the media for points deductions for putting a B team out but I wondered whether there is any actual basis in the rules for that or whether it is just rhetoric and hyperbole.

As a follower of Leicester City (as I have said on here a few times, I do not get involved enough in football to class myself a fan) I am not disappointed as I really saw us struggling to get many more points out of the rest of the season. That said, if Leicester had safely qualified for Europe, I am not sure that we would have seen their first team out either with the cup final coming up. Irrespective of any impact on the rest of the league, I do not expect to see Man Citys first team out much, if at all, before the champions league final and I am sure Chelsea would have been resting players if their place in the Champions League for next year were assured. Rivalry issues will mean that Man United I suspect will put a full team out on Thursday and then, again, I expect a number of players to be wrapped in cotton wool until the Europa League final. Guess it is just the benefit of achieving your goals for the season with matches to spare.
		
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In writing, no I don't think there is. But, many years ago Wolves and Mick McCarthy were fined for playing a reserve 11 I believe. Although that was a frankly ridiculous decision, as they have to choose a squad of 25 for the season, plus youth players, so they should be allowed to pick anyone they want really. 

Ah here is the info we need - a couple of teams were fined for weakened teams over ten years ago but then they changed the rules once they brought in the 25 squad rule. Makes sense.


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## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You just love the personal attacks, quite happy for you to show were I’ve lied, if I’ve made a mistake and it’s been pointed out I’ve apologised, you only come on here to moan, how about posting something original?

4 Teams were affected by Utd getting beat last night, only 1 set of fans whining.
		
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You said we didnt congratulate city fans which not only was done by 1 of us, but by at least 4, and even after pointing it out twice you chose to ignore. An aplogoy is just words if insincere. 

Original, ye gods, I must be that unoriginal that you havent replied to my posts thousands of times. I just just laugh at that one. 

Bored now.


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## pokerjoke (May 12, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Granted, I agree that the league was still mathematically still not done however in reality everyone knows it was, even playing our strongest side and winning all our remaining games I cannot see City losing it from their position. 


In terms of the Europa Final, again I agree, it is still a few more weeks away however this is the biggest game of the season now, nothing else matters so why risk a longer term injury? Does it really matter if you finish 2nd or 4th at this point when CL qualification is done for next season but you still have the 2nd biggest European match in the calender left to play? As a manager I wouldn't be risking anyone needlessly with that one on the horizon especially with the stick OGS has taken from many of United's own fans.
		
Click to expand...

Nope
Why bring Fernandes  on for 12 minutes then?


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## AmandaJR (May 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			No chance .
My mate hit an iron off the first tee once because he wouldn’t use a RED tee.
His son had emptied his bag!
Can’t see him in a Liverpool scarf.
		
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That made me laugh as I can't have anything red whatsoever. I was looking at new golf grips and the recommended ones were black with a red and white stripe in places - told the pro to forget that in a hurry!


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			That made me laugh as I can't have anything red whatsoever. I was looking at new golf grips and the recommended ones were black with a red and white stripe in places - told the pro to forget that in a hurry!
		
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I would be stumped my fave colour is sky blue.
Got a blue car.
Don’t understand all that none sense.


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## Slime (May 12, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			That made me laugh as I can't have anything red whatsoever. I was looking at new golf grips and the recommended ones were black with a red and white stripe in places - told the pro to forget that in a hurry!
		
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I hope you stop at traffic lights!


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## Pin-seeker (May 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Any game that is forced to be postponed because of the clubs fans actions imo should be forfeited and points awarded to the opposition - regardless of who is involved. A fans protest ended up with a game being unable to play - and it seems nothing has been done about it.

But at the very least look at rearranging the game when it’s not going to have such a dramatic affect on a lot of crucial games
		
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So you feel hard done by because of Man Utd’s team selection & feel it may have weakened your chances of top 4.
But you want 3pts for a game you didn’t even play??

Do you not think other teams challenging for top 4 might be a little upset by this Phil? 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (May 12, 2021)

Arsenal must be the only side who have 3 right backs in the squad and put them all on the bench for the same game haha

Assume Sakas being asked to try yet another position lol


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## Blue in Munich (May 12, 2021)

So Portugal it is then;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Just about sums up UEFA; you can have the final if you bend your Covid rules so that our sponsors can come & go as they please, screw the supporters.


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## Blue in Munich (May 12, 2021)

And the scalpers have started;




£505 for EasyJet one way.

I understand the view that there is somehow more kudos the the final being abroad, but only if you are there; does it really matter where it is if you are watching it on a TV?.  

TfL wouldn't have been putting travel cards up.


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## fundy (May 12, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And the scalpers have started;

View attachment 36597


£505 for EasyJet one way.

I understand the view that there is somehow more kudos the the final being abroad, but only if you are there; does it really matter where it is if you are watching it on a TV?.  

TfL wouldn't have been putting travel cards up.
		
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We always used to buy a flight for the final before the semi final if we were going to try and go, dont have to worry about that nowadays lol


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## Blue in Munich (May 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			We always used to buy a flight for the final before the semi final if we were going to try and go, dont have to worry about that nowadays lol
		
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Apparently you could get them for about £28 each way from Dublin before it was announced...


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## fundy (May 12, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Apparently you could get them for about £28 each way from Dublin before it was announced... 

Click to expand...


whats happening about tickets or that not been released yet?


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## Blue in Munich (May 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			whats happening about tickets or that not been released yet?
		
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Haven't seen anything yet.


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## Blue in Munich (May 12, 2021)

Something different by Ajax;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57086460


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## Lord Tyrion (May 12, 2021)

Now that was funny


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## ColchesterFC (May 12, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And the scalpers have started;

View attachment 36597


£505 for EasyJet one way.

I understand the view that there is somehow more kudos the the final being abroad, but only if you are there; does it really matter where it is if you are watching it on a TV?. 

TfL wouldn't have been putting travel cards up.
		
Click to expand...

And the problem with Portugal is that apart from Madrid (or possibly Bilbao) there aren't many options for airports to fly to and then drive/train on to stadium. 

If it was in Zurich, Switzerland you'd have a choice of France, Germany and Italy to fly in to. Same with Prague, Vienna, Budapest etc. Plenty of choice of fly/drive options to get there.


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## brendy (May 12, 2021)

Guys, yet again having to moderate needless name calling in a football thread, who'd have thought it. Consider this a shot across the bow, next time its some points for the collection.


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## Pin-seeker (May 12, 2021)

brendy said:



			Guys, yet again having to moderate needless name calling in a football thread, who'd have thought it. Consider this a shot across the bow, next time its some points for the collection.
		
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Certain posters do seem to get A LOT of warnings & no action.


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## Tashyboy (May 12, 2021)

I would have the golden glove winner


AmandaJR said:



			That made me laugh as I can't have anything red whatsoever. I was looking at new golf grips and the recommended ones were black with a red and white stripe in places - told the pro to forget that in a hurry!
		
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😳 you think that’s bad, I have had to buy a red top for the old farts v whippersnappers. Let’s just say it stuck in me throat. I was seriously thinking about putting some black stripes on with a sharpie and writing Bell on the back.


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## BiMGuy (May 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Any game that is forced to be postponed because of the clubs fans actions imo should be forfeited and points awarded to the opposition - regardless of who is involved.
		
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Great idea. Until you consider what the consequences of such a rule would be!


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## Pin-seeker (May 12, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Great idea. Until you consider what the consequences of such a rule would be!
		
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Imagine next season,City 1pt ahead of Liverpool going into the final game.
Liverpool play Norwich at home,City away to UTD.
UTD fans protest,game is cancelled.
City win the league as they’re awardee the 3pts.
Liverpool fans most hard done by AGAIN 🤦‍♂️😂😂

But obviously Phil would be ok with that 🤷‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And the problem with Portugal is that apart from Madrid (or possibly Bilbao) there aren't many options for airports to fly to and then drive/train on to stadium.

If it was in Zurich, Switzerland you'd have a choice of France, Germany and Italy to fly in to. Same with Prague, Vienna, Budapest etc. Plenty of choice of fly/drive options to get there.
		
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They have never been bothered about infrastructure judging by some places the final has been.
The arrogance of expecting the government to bend the rules for the sponsors is typical of them.


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## Tashyboy (May 12, 2021)

Just outta interest, what would of happened if UEFA stopped both games where Liverpool fans attacked the team coaches of City and Madrid. Do Liverpool get kicked out of the comp? would that be fair? Me finks not.


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Just outta interest, what would of happened if UEFA stopped both games where Liverpool fans attacked the team coaches of City and Madrid. Do Liverpool get kicked out of the comp? would that be fair? Me finks not.
		
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Outside the stadium it’s a police matter I think.
If someone went home and murdered their partner in their City shirt would they hold the club responsible?
Stupid I know but???

The prob with the UTD protest was it was inside the stadium.
That’s the clubs problem then.
Forfeited points won’t work , it will be like Var everyone will have a different opinion.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Just outta interest, what would of happened if UEFA stopped both games where Liverpool fans attacked the team coaches of City and Madrid. Do Liverpool get kicked out of the comp? would that be fair? Me finks not.
		
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Is it about fairness ? If the incident escalated enough to the point the game was cancelled then potentially yes the game would forfeited.


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I would have the golden glove winner

😳 you think that’s bad, I have had to buy a red top for the old farts v whippersnappers. Let’s just say it stuck in me throat. I was seriously thinking about putting some black stripes on with a sharpie and writing Bell on the back.
		
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Who picked the colours ?
Red and blue asking for trouble .
A nice pink and yellow would be neutral.
Other colours are available .


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## ColchesterFC (May 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it about fairness ? If the incident escalated enough to the point the game was cancelled then potentially yes the game would forfeited.
		
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So what happens in the following situation? Liverpool are at home on the last day of the season needing a point to win the league. A thousand fans of other clubs turn up at the ground in Liverpool shirts, protesting and storm the stadium, causing the match to be abandoned. Under your proposal Liverpool would forfeit the match, and potentially the league title.

I'm not suggesting that the fans at Old Trafford weren't Man Utd fans but how far would fans of other clubs go to stop their biggest rivals from winning the league or winning a trophy?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So what happens in the following situation? Liverpool are at home on the last day of the season needing a point to win the league. A thousand fans of other clubs turn up at the ground in Liverpool shirts, protesting and storm the stadium, causing the match to be abandoned. Under your proposal Liverpool would forfeit the match, and potentially the league title.

I'm not suggesting that the fans at Old Trafford weren't Man Utd fans but how far would fans of other clubs go to stop their biggest rivals from winning the league or winning a trophy?
		
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Potentially yes - even more so if it happens inside the ground as well but it would be investigated etc 

As I said right now the club whose fans caused the issue appear to have escaped with no punishment whilst the rearrangement has potentially harmed the prospects of other clubs.

The whole situation doesn’t seem right


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## ColchesterFC (May 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			Arsenal must be the only side who have 3 right backs in the squad and put them all on the bench for the same game haha

Assume Sakas being asked to try yet another position lol
		
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Good idea for Arsenal to put 3 right backs on the bench tonight. Just need one more injury and all three of them will have got a game tonight.


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## Swingalot (May 12, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			A brush, a tickle, whatever you want to call it, he's thrown himself to the floor after absolutely minimal contact, which is cheating. And lets be fair he's got plenty of form for it.
Not sure why you're bringing Ward Prowse into it? A more honest player you would be hard pushed to find 🤷
		
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Because Ward Prowse is nothing short of a human rat. A more snidey, gobby, arrogant rat you would struggle to find.


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## fundy (May 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Good idea for Arsenal to put 3 right backs on the bench tonight. Just need one more injury and all three of them will have got a game tonight.
		
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Just different level thinking isnt it 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Always nice to get 6 points off Chelsea in a season, small comforts and all that


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## Tashyboy (May 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Who picked the colours ?
Red and blue asking for trouble .
A nice pink and yellow would be neutral.
Other colours are available .
		
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Al put it to them next Sunday 😁👍


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## Tashyboy (May 12, 2021)

Does tonight’s game endorse it has been a rammel season or confirm that it has been good not knowing what results are going to be. For me the latter.


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## davemc1 (May 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Does tonight’s game endorse it has been a rammel season or confirm that it has been good not knowing what results are going to be. For me the latter.
		
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Would you say the same if your club was languishing in 6th rather than winning another title? 😝


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## davemc1 (May 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Al put it to them next Sunday 😁👍
		
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NEXT Sunday? I thought it was this 🤦‍♂️


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## Dando (May 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Who picked the colours ?
Red and blue asking for trouble .
A nice pink and yellow would be neutral.
Other colours are available .
		
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I was going to pick different colours but thought @Tashyboy would love to wear red


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## Dando (May 12, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			NEXT Sunday? I thought it was this 🤦‍♂️
		
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Shouldn’t you be setting off for next years trip?


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## Tashyboy (May 12, 2021)

Dando said:



			Shouldn’t you be setting off for next years trip?
		
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Dando it is next Sunday 23rd and 24 th ain’t it coz me heart is in me mouth.


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## Tashyboy (May 12, 2021)

You pair of tits. Missis T nearly gave me a slapping.


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## Tashyboy (May 12, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Would you say the same if your club was languishing in 6th rather than winning another title? 😝
		
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I did say the same last year when Liverpool ran away with the title. I enjoyed the season. The last 10 years have been brilliant being a City fan. But for a couple of decades when we were rammel. There were certain games, especially against utd when I knew we were goin to get battered. I just hoped the score would be respectable. I felt there was nothing worse than knowing the result of a game before it had kicked off. Tonight’s game, West Ham v Everton, and loads more. It’s been good as a neutral not going how games were going to go. Back in the olden days I used to dream of finishing 6th 😁👍


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## Yorkhacker (May 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			Always nice to get 6 points off Chelsea in a season, small comforts and all that
		
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I'm surprised you can remember. It's been 17 years since that last happened 😉


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## road2ruin (May 13, 2021)

Very little in the media condemning Tuchel for making 7 changes to his team that beat City previously. Assume it's because the result doesn't particularly impact anyone other than themsevles given that Arsenal aren't likely to get Europe however surely it's the same principle, he has a squad and he's make the decision based on the FA Cup final at the weekend. Would have been intersting to see the reaction had they been playing West Ham or Spurs last night with the same result.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			So Portugal it is then;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Just about sums up UEFA; you can have the final if you bend your Covid rules so that our sponsors can come & go as they please, screw the supporters.
		
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So UEFA had two choices 

1. Satisfy all the fans of both clubs and have a final with great atmosphere 

2. Satisfy their corperate sponsers who pay millions 

Now after recent events with the ESL and all the talk about the game being for the fans it’s clear UEFA had one option - look after the fans 

But UEFA show their clear hypocrisy and look after the millions


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## Liverbirdie (May 13, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Very little in the media condemning Tuchel for making 7 changes to his team that beat City previously. Assume it's because the result doesn't particularly impact anyone other than themsevles given that Arsenal aren't likely to get Europe however surely it's the same principle, he has a squad and he's make the decision based on the FA Cup final at the weekend. Would have been intersting to see the reaction had they been playing West Ham or Spurs last night with the same result.
		
Click to expand...

Troublecauser.


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## IanM (May 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			UEFA show their clear hypocrisy and look after the millions
		
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Not the biggest shock!


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## Pin-seeker (May 13, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Very little in the media condemning Tuchel for making 7 changes to his team that beat City previously. Assume it's because the result doesn't particularly impact anyone other than themsevles given that Arsenal aren't likely to get Europe however surely it's the same principle, he has a squad and he's make the decision based on the FA Cup final at the weekend. Would have been intersting to see the reaction had they been playing West Ham or Spurs last night with the same result.
		
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Some fans just whinge more than others 🤷‍♂️😂


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## DanFST (May 13, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Some fans just whinge more than others 🤷‍♂️😂
		
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We lost the top 4 losing to Newcastle, Chelsea and throwing it away to a crap Arsenal side. No ones fault but ours and injuries.

How Liverpool fans are blaming OGS, is unfathomable.


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## fundy (May 13, 2021)

DanFST said:



			We lost the top 4 losing to Newcastle, Chelsea and throwing it away to a crap Arsenal side. No ones fault but ours and injuries.

How Liverpool fans are blaming OGS, is unfathomable.
		
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who you calling crap!!!!!!

thats our job


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## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

DanFST said:



			We lost the top 4 losing to Newcastle, Chelsea and throwing it away to a crap Arsenal side. No ones fault but ours and injuries.

*How Liverpool fans are blaming OGS, is unfathomable.*

Click to expand...

Liverpool fans are not blaming OGS for us missing out on CL 🤷‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (May 13, 2021)

Dando said:



			I was going to pick different colours but thought @Tashyboy would love to wear red
		
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Think they could clash with me blue crocs 🤔


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## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So what happens in the following situation? Liverpool are at home on the last day of the season needing a point to win the league. A thousand fans of other clubs turn up at the ground in Liverpool shirts, protesting and storm the stadium, causing the match to be abandoned. Under your proposal Liverpool would forfeit the match, and potentially the league title.

I'm not suggesting that the fans at Old Trafford weren't Man Utd fans but how far would fans of other clubs go to stop their biggest rivals from winning the league or winning a trophy?
		
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They should all be arrested and identified.
The ones in UTdS stadium also broke lockdown rules ,have any been identified?
It’s not going to happen as it’s so open to abuse.


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## DanFST (May 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpool fans are not blaming OGS for us missing out on CL 🤷‍♂️
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			A weakened team gave City the title and CL for Leicester.
		
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Ok.


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## pokerjoke (May 13, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Some fans just whinge more than others 🤷‍♂️😂
		
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They have a lot to whinge about though so give them some slack 

1. Unlikely to qualify for the champions league 
2. Probably the worst defence of the P/L title ( can’t be bothered to google) that’s Phils job.
3.Unlikely to attract any big summer signings due to no C/L

Perhaps I should have put it in the “Things that gladden the heart” thread.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Ok.
		
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Sorry can’t see where it’s “blaming OGS for Liverpool not making CL” ?🤷‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			They have a lot to whinge about though so give them some slack 

1. Unlikely to qualify for the champions league
2. Probably the worst defence of the P/L title ( can’t be bothered to google) that’s Phils job.
3.Unlikely to attract any big summer signings due to no C/L

Perhaps I should have put it in the “Things that gladden the heart” thread.
		
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This is true 
But our season is still better than 3/4 of the PL


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## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			This is true
But our season is still better than 3/4 of the PL 

Click to expand...

At least it’s nice to see the Man Utd fans vocal again - been quiet for the last 3 years or so. Coming second seems have given them a resurgence.


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## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At least it’s nice to see the Man Utd fans vocal again - been quiet for the last 3 years or so. Coming second seems have given them a resurgence.
		
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I thought nobody remembers who comes second.?


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## Papas1982 (May 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			They have a lot to whinge about though so give them some slack 

1. Unlikely to qualify for the champions league
2. Probably the worst defence of the P/L title ( can’t be bothered to google) that’s Phils job.
3.Unlikely to attract any big summer signings due to no C/L

Perhaps I should have put it in the “Things that gladden the heart” thread.
		
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Re number 2.

Off top of my head, 

Chelsea sacking Mourinho (second time) and Leicester almost being related probably had lower points.


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## Liverbirdie (May 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpool fans are not blaming OGS for us missing out on CL 🤷‍♂️
		
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Correct, some people read what they want to - it must be infectious.


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## Liverbirdie (May 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			They have a lot to whinge about though so give them some slack 

1. Unlikely to qualify for the champions league
2. Probably the worst defence of the P/L title ( can’t be bothered to google) that’s Phils job.
3.Unlikely to attract any big summer signings due to no C/L

Perhaps I should have put it in the “Things that gladden the heart” thread.
		
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1. Unlikely, but possible.
2. Chelsea finishing, was it 10th, the year after not ring any bells? I think you needs a maths lesson.
3. Also possible, we have to rely on self-generated funds, not sugar dady crumbs, a bit like yourselves.
4. Biggest sulk on the forum trophy to you for disappearing for 6 months, just because your biggest rivals won the league. how well will you defend your title?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			They have a lot to whinge about though so give them some slack 

1. Unlikely to qualify for the champions league
2. Probably the worst defence of the P/L title ( can’t be bothered to google) that’s Phils job.
3.Unlikely to attract any big summer signings due to no C/L

Perhaps I should have put it in the “Things that gladden the heart” thread.
		
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Surprised there were no posts on Klopp’s interview from yesterday were he defended OGS and said he’d of done the same.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/57091961.amp


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## pokerjoke (May 13, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			1. Unlikely, but possible.
2. Chelsea finishing, was it 10th, the year after not ring any bells? I think you needs a maths lesson.
3. Also possible, we have to rely on self-generated funds, not sugar dady crumbs, a bit like yourselves.
4. Biggest sulk on the forum trophy to you for disappearing for 6 months, just because your biggest rivals won the league. how well will you defend your title? 

Click to expand...

The premier league can be won by a club without the biggest budget however deep the pockets that has been proven on a few occasions.
Your defence of the title and without C/L is a massive capitulation.
6 months off from the football thread definitely totally had enough of the “Hockey referee” and him spouting rubbish.
However you only have to look at yours and Paul’s arguments and slagging each other off to realise a sabbatical is sometimes a good option.


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## pokerjoke (May 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Surprised there were no posts on Klopp’s interview from yesterday were he defended OGS and said he’d of done the same.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/57091961.amp

Click to expand...

Yes saw that but thought LP knew better


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			The premier league can be won by a club without the biggest budget however deep the pockets that has been proven on a few occasions.
Your defence of the title and without C/L is a massive capitulation.
6 months off from the football thread definitely totally had enough of the “Hockey referee” and him spouting rubbish.
However you only have to look at yours and Paul’s arguments and slagging each other off to realise a sabbatical is sometimes a good option.
		
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I don’t believe I’ve argued with Pete, disagree with some of his posts or point of view, happy to debate with anyone and Pete will give a reasoned response, I also don’t believe I’ve slagged him off.

Now we’ve lost Stu_C he’s the only genuine Lpool fan left on here and knows what he’s talking about.


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## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Surprised there were no posts on Klopp’s interview from yesterday were he defended OGS and said he’d of done the same.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/57091961.amp

Click to expand...

So would any PL manager in his position.
It just makes sense.


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## BiMGuy (May 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought nobody remembers who comes second.?
		
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My wife does!


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## pokerjoke (May 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t believe I’ve argued with Pete, disagree with some of his posts or point of view, happy to debate with anyone and Pete will give a reasoned response, I also don’t believe I’ve slagged him off.

Now we’ve lost Stu_C he’s the only genuine Lpool fan left on here and knows what he’s talking about.
		
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That last bit is true for sure


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## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			My wife does!
		
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She a United fan then.


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## Tashyboy (May 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t believe I’ve argued with Pete, disagree with some of his posts or point of view, happy to debate with anyone and Pete will give a reasoned response, I also don’t believe I’ve slagged him off.

Now we’ve lost Stu_C he’s the only genuine Lpool fan left on here and knows what he’s talking about.
		
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Hope stu returns soon 👍


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## Voyager EMH (May 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			My wife does!
		
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When? And who?


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## PieMan (May 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t believe I’ve argued with Pete, disagree with some of his posts or point of view, happy to debate with anyone and Pete will give a reasoned response, I also don’t believe I’ve slagged him off.

Now we’ve lost Stu_C he’s the only genuine Lpool fan left on here and knows what he’s talking about.
		
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Every Liverpool fan I've met talks complete and utter 🐂💩.......especially Pete, Stu and the Hockey fella.......!!! 😉 Only joking guys! 

For the record, I think Liverpool's title defence has been nothing short of marvellous - loved every minute of it!! 😉😆

BUT it's still better than Chelsea's during Jose's last spell - that was shambolic and awful to watch 🤦‍♂️😭


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## fundy (May 13, 2021)

And so it begins, sounds like Liverpools team coach is stuck down a side street not far from their team hotel


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## Blue in Munich (May 13, 2021)

The arrangements for fans in Porto;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57106803

They will effectively be held under arrest in Portugal & held to ransom by the airlines.

I didn't notice any mention in the article of the arrangements for UEFA's mates...


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## fundy (May 13, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			The arrangements for fans in Porto;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57106803

They will effectively be held under arrest in Portugal & held to ransom by the airlines.

I didn't notice any mention in the article of the arrangements for UEFA's mates...
		
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theres some chatter thats only until Portugal relax their travel rules this Sunday


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## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			1. Unlikely, but possible.
2. Chelsea finishing, was it 10th, the year after not ring any bells? I think you needs a maths lesson.
3. Also possible, we have to rely on self-generated funds, not sugar dady crumbs, a bit like yourselves.
4. Biggest sulk on the forum trophy to you for disappearing for 6 months, just because your biggest rivals won the league. how well will you defend your title? 

Click to expand...

Didnt Man Utd end up 7th the year after they last won the title - I know it was a while back now but I’m sure it wasn’t the greatest defence of the title


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## Blue in Munich (May 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			theres some chatter thats only until Portugal relax their travel rules this Sunday
		
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Reading the article I'm not so sure;

Portugal's cabinet affairs minister Mariana Vieira da Silva said a set of rules had been put in place for those fans attending the final.

"Those who come to the final of the Champions League will come and return on the same day, with a test done, in a bubble situation, on charter flights," she said.

"There will be two fan zones and from there they will be moved to the stadium and from the stadium to the airport, being in Portugal less than 24 hours.

"Obviously those coming by plane [to be in Porto while the match is on but do not actually go the stadium] will comply with the established rules and security measures will be put in place as happened in Lisbon last year."

She said the restrictions put in place were to ensure that Covid rates remain low in Portugal.

Vieira da Silva said that the local health authority was in charge of selecting seats for fans to ensure social distancing and that tickets were non-transferable.

If they are that bothered about keeping the Covid rates low, tell UEFA to host it at Wembley.


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## fundy (May 13, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Reading the article I'm not so sure;

Portugal's cabinet affairs minister Mariana Vieira da Silva said a set of rules had been put in place for those fans attending the final.

"Those who come to the final of the Champions League will come and return on the same day, with a test done, in a bubble situation, on charter flights," she said.

"There will be two fan zones and from there they will be moved to the stadium and from the stadium to the airport, being in Portugal less than 24 hours.

"Obviously those coming by plane [to be in Porto while the match is on but do not actually go the stadium] will comply with the established rules and security measures will be put in place as happened in Lisbon last year."

She said the restrictions put in place were to ensure that Covid rates remain low in Portugal.

Vieira da Silva said that the local health authority was in charge of selecting seats for fans to ensure social distancing and that tickets were non-transferable.

If they are that bothered about keeping the Covid rates low, tell UEFA to host it at Wembley.
		
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was only going on what I saw the chief sports writer for the times Martin Ziegler post on twitter earlier

does sound farcical thats for sure but got to keep the delegates and sponsors happy at all costs


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## Tashyboy (May 13, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Reading the article I'm not so sure;

Portugal's cabinet affairs minister Mariana Vieira da Silva said a set of rules had been put in place for those fans attending the final.

"Those who come to the final of the Champions League will come and return on the same day, with a test done, in a bubble situation, on charter flights," she said.

"There will be two fan zones and from there they will be moved to the stadium and from the stadium to the airport, being in Portugal less than 24 hours.

"Obviously those coming by plane [to be in Porto while the match is on but do not actually go the stadium] will comply with the established rules and security measures will be put in place as happened in Lisbon last year."

She said the restrictions put in place were to ensure that Covid rates remain low in Portugal.

Vieira da Silva said that the local health authority was in charge of selecting seats for fans to ensure social distancing and that tickets were non-transferable.

If they are that bothered about keeping the Covid rates low, tell UEFA to host it at Wembley.
		
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BIM, I don’t know how to tell you this nicely, but common sense has no part to play in a football thread. Especially when it comes UEFA and fans. Am so close to a rant 😡


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 13, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			The arrangements for fans in Porto;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57106803

They will effectively be held under arrest in Portugal & held to ransom by the airlines.

I didn't notice any mention in the article of the arrangements for UEFA's mates...
		
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I totally agree UEFA as an organisation needs sorting out, but these “mates” as you call them are mainly the Sponsors and Broadcasters who plough millions in to the CL and UEFA are stuck between a rock and a hard place, if they don’t meet their obligations they have to pay compensation, possibly millions back to them, plus risking any future contracts.

How these people get to the venue from their residence to the Final is not all down to UEFA.

What would of been good is their “mates” refusing their allocations.


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## Blue in Munich (May 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I totally agree UEFA as an organisation needs sorting out, but these “mates” as you call them are mainly the Sponsors and Broadcasters who plough millions in to the CL and UEFA are stuck between a rock and a hard place, if they don’t meet their obligations they have to pay compensation, possibly millions back to them, plus risking any future contracts.

How these people get to the venue from their residence to the Final is not all down to UEFA.

What would of been good is their “mates” refusing their allocations.
		
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We're in a world pandemic; for one year use a British domestic broadcaster to provide a feed to all the countries who would normally send their own broadcasters; have all the native broadcasters provide commentary over the supplied pictures from a domestic studio; and have the Sponsors play by the rules & follow the same rules as the fans.  If there was ever a year for the Sponsors to all be in this together with the fans this was it, but UEFA appear to have put the Sponsors first.  If they were half as concerned as they claim to be about fans, they should have brokered a better solution.

Apparently the Government wouldn't bend to UEFA's demands to ignore the regulations which is why they went to Portugal.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			We're in a world pandemic; for one year use a British domestic broadcaster to provide a feed to all the countries who would normally send their own broadcasters; have all the native broadcasters provide commentary over the supplied pictures from a domestic studio; and have the Sponsors play by the rules & follow the same rules as the fans.  If there was ever a year for the Sponsors to all be in this together with the fans this was it, but UEFA appear to have put the Sponsors first.  If they were half as concerned as they claim to be about fans, they should have brokered a better solution.

Apparently the Government wouldn't bend to UEFA's demands to ignore the regulations which is why they went to Portugal.
		
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Far too much common sense there as well as looking after thr supporters and UEFA have clearly shown they lack in both areas. 

And no doubt now airlines etc are taking full advantage of those fans that do want to travel there


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 13, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			We're in a world pandemic; for one year use a British domestic broadcaster to provide a feed to all the countries who would normally send their own broadcasters; have all the native broadcasters provide commentary over the supplied pictures from a domestic studio; and have the Sponsors play by the rules & follow the same rules as the fans.  If there was ever a year for the Sponsors to all be in this together with the fans this was it, but UEFA appear to have put the Sponsors first.  If they were half as concerned as they claim to be about fans, they should have brokered a better solution.

Apparently the Government wouldn't bend to UEFA's demands to ignore the regulations which is why they went to Portugal.
		
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You maybe right, but we don’t know the contractual side of this, whose to say they haven’t come under pressure from the Sponsors etc and commonsense has never been used when it comes to UEFA.

As for the Government not bending, that’s just rumour at the moment isn’t it?


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## Blue in Munich (May 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Far too much common sense there as well as looking after thr supporters and UEFA have clearly shown they lack in both areas.

And no doubt now airlines etc are taking full advantage of *those fans that do want to travel there*

Click to expand...

That won't be this one then; having seen some of the eye watering prices that the "budget" airlines were asking, I'm not prepared pay what will be asked for what will be in relative terms a sub-standard experience.

Shame, I'd just topped up the Oyster card as well.


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## Blue in Munich (May 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You maybe right, but we don’t know the contractual side of this, whose to say they haven’t come under pressure from the Sponsors etc and commonsense has never been used when it comes to UEFA.

As for the Government not bending, that’s just rumour at the moment isn’t it?
		
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If they hadn't written up their contracts to cover the possibility of issues like this then UEFA are even more stupid than I give them credit for.  

The Government not bending has been reported by at least one broadcaster so I don't doubt it's correct.  And if they did, as much as it's irritating that it's probably cost me a ticket, I can only applaud them for refusing to be blackmailed.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

Thankfully looks like the game is going ahead - full strength UTD team 

Nice to see the fans outside with their chants 🤬


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## pauljames87 (May 13, 2021)

Did United protest against Leicester?

Or do they only come out when it's Liverpool?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 13, 2021)

No cutting edge, poor performance, rubbish officials!


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## Pin-seeker (May 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thankfully looks like the game is going ahead - *full strength UTD team*

Nice to see the fans outside with their chants 🤬
		
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Change the record now Phil 🥱


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## Slime (May 13, 2021)

Bugger, I missed the goal! 
Was it any good?


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## fundy (May 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			Bugger, I missed the goal! 
Was it any good?
		
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cracking finish by the Liverpool centre half


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## fundy (May 13, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392924387351973892


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## Slime (May 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			cracking finish by the Liverpool centre half 

Click to expand...

Just seen it, good assist from Bruno.


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## Slime (May 13, 2021)

Good tackle.


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## Slime (May 13, 2021)

Good refereeing.


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## Slime (May 13, 2021)

A bit surprised it wasn't given to United, to be honest.


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## fundy (May 13, 2021)

2 out of 3 i agree with, good tackle might be stretching it lol


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## Beezerk (May 13, 2021)

fundy said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392924387351973892

Click to expand...

Christ, who are those two Liverpool defenders getting sucked to the ball like flies around 💩?
Then treading water when trying to get back into position, really poor and lacking any fight looking at that clip.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			Good tackle.
		
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Studs on the shin is a good tackle now 🤷‍♂️

If that happens anywhere outside the box it’s a foul. But I’m not surprised it was overturned


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## Orikoru (May 13, 2021)

What were Gary and Jamie prattling on about? That was never a penalty, in normal speed or slow motion. He won the ball with his left foot, clearly.


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## Tashyboy (May 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What were Gary and Jamie prattling on about? That was never a penalty, in normal speed or slow motion. He won the ball with his left foot, clearly.
		
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As a neutral I was gobsmacked it took so long for the ref to look at the screen. What surprised me even more was listening to Neville and carragher saying the VAR officials are talking to the ref and they can hear. So why can’t we as fans. 
Bottom line am finding all this “ he followed through “ a load of rammel.He won the ball,Fairly. The other guy didn’,Yet his leg is there coz he is late and yet the player followed through And caught him. Is there not a train of thought that the player who is late caught the player who won the ball. Like the chuckle brothers just said “ what is a foul nowadays”.


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## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			As a neutral I was gobsmacked it took so long for the ref to look at the screen. What surprised me even more was listening to Neville and carragher saying the VAR officials are talking to the ref and they can hear. So why can’t we as fans.
Bottom line am finding all this “ he followed through “ a load of rammel.He won the ball,Fairly. The other guy didn’,Yet his leg is there coz he is late and yet the player followed through And caught him. Is there not a train of thought that the player who is late caught the player who won the ball. Like the chuckle brothers just said “ what is a foul nowadays”.
		
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I would agree with this.
But they have used the following through to justify so many pens and fouls they have given this year.
Ask Vesteguard  from Southampton. Overturned red card as well so double whammy.
VAR is at least consistent ,consistently crap.

Good game though.


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## hairball_89 (May 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			As a neutral I was gobsmacked it took so long for the ref to look at the screen. What surprised me even more was listening to Neville and carragher saying the VAR officials are talking to the ref and they can hear. So why can’t we as fans.
Bottom line am finding all this “ he followed through “ a load of rammel.He won the ball,Fairly. The other guy didn’,Yet his leg is there coz he is late and yet the player followed through And caught him. Is there not a train of thought that the player who is late caught the player who won the ball. Like the chuckle brothers just said “ what is a foul nowadays”.
		
Click to expand...

Yup. Not a foul. Phillips only goes flying as he has forward momentum into the utd player. 

These games are usually boring. This is anything but. Hopefully the 2nd half continues the way the first has gone!


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## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What were Gary and Jamie prattling on about? That was never a penalty, in normal speed or slow motion. He won the ball with his left foot, clearly.
		
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So did Vesteguard but he got sent off.
No consistency.
I don’t think either were fouls but VAR can’t make it’s mind up.

Jeez even Roy Keane thinks it’s a pen “ in the modern game”


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## Slime (May 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Studs on the shin* is a good tackle now 🤷‍♂️

If that happens anywhere outside the box it’s a foul. But I’m not surprised it was overturned
		
Click to expand...

Not in the tackle I saw!
The side of his foot catches the player's shin ........................... because that player was late to the ball.
Arguably, the defender's shin catches the United player's foot.


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## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

United are there for the taking.
Shocking at the back.


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## Slime (May 13, 2021)

United committing suicide, and what the hell is Fred doing wearing a United shirt?


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## Tashyboy (May 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			Not in the tackle I saw!
The side of his foot catches the player's shin ........................... because that player was late to the ball.
Arguably, the defender's shin catches the United player's foot.
		
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I think the discussion between souness/ old school and the chuckle brothers/ new school sums it up perfectly. No one really knows.


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## pokerjoke (May 13, 2021)

Oh my god when will we ever learn,never pass to Fred facing goal,it’s happened too often.
Henderson out of the England squad,you can’t have keepers who make basic errors in major tournaments.


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## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

Don’t think the refs understand the rules properly anymore.
Mings should have left the field after treatment ,but even after being told by the Everton players he left him on the pitch for the restart.
Mings should have been off for the “ tackle” on DCL knee.


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## pendodave (May 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Oh my god when will we ever learn,never pass to Fred facing goal,it’s happened too often.
Henderson out of the England squad,you can’t have keepers who make basic errors in major tournaments.
		
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 I'm so glad that the team I support is managed by one of those old fashioned managers who doesn't mind their goalkeeper or defenders putting their foot through the ball. Conceding goals like that is so sickening and pointless.


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## Slime (May 13, 2021)

pendodave said:



			I'm so glad that the team I support is managed by one of those old fashioned managers who doesn't mind their goalkeeper or defenders putting their foot through the ball. Conceding goals like that is *so sickening and pointless.*

Click to expand...

That pretty much sums up Fred. 
Possibly the worst passer of a football that I've ever seen.


----------



## fundy (May 13, 2021)

pendodave said:



			I'm so glad that the team I support is managed by one of those old fashioned managers who doesn't mind their goalkeeper or defenders putting their foot through the ball. Conceding goals like that is so sickening and pointless.
		
Click to expand...

i wish i did 😢😢😢😢


----------



## Orikoru (May 13, 2021)

Man Utd are bloody awful, what the hell are they doing?


----------



## fundy (May 13, 2021)

late contender in scream of the season from Bruno 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

Impressive “screeching” from Fernandes , up there with Lacazette levels. Amazed he is still walking


----------



## pokerjoke (May 13, 2021)

This is what happens when you believe one game is bigger than the P/L.
Liverpool certainly by far the better team and definitely up for it,we are very poor.


----------



## Orikoru (May 13, 2021)

Decent game this! Not over yet.


----------



## IainP (May 13, 2021)

Fickle nature of footy fans - from bbc text earlier 😁

#bbcfootball or text 81111 (UK only)
*Kev: *Honestly don’t understand what Firmino offers anymore to this team. He’s been so poor this season!
*Paul: *Firmino looks completely shot of confidence. Passing when he should shoot, and not even completing those passes when he attempts them!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

Reckon this will end up 5-3 😖


----------



## fundy (May 13, 2021)

and Fabinho enters the screaming comp 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Slime (May 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Impressive “screeching” from Fernandes , up there with Lacazette levels. Amazed he is still walking
		
Click to expand...

Did you not just hear Fabinho?
My wife did ................................. and she's upstairs!


----------



## BiMGuy (May 13, 2021)

Can anyone explain why McTominay is still on the pitch?


----------



## fundy (May 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Can anyone explain why McTominay is still on the pitch?
		
Click to expand...

2 words, anthony and taylor


----------



## BiMGuy (May 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			2 words, anthony and taylor
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they should introduce some kind of video review system for instances where the refferee misses something....


----------



## Slime (May 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Can anyone explain why McTominay is still on the pitch?
		
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't think he's playing that badly.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)




----------



## Orikoru (May 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Maybe they should introduce some kind of video review system for instances where the refferee misses something....
		
Click to expand...

Nah, that would never work.


----------



## Slime (May 13, 2021)

I'm watching the golf now.
United's worst performance for a long, long time.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Can anyone explain why McTominay is still on the pitch?
		
Click to expand...

Because Taylor bottled it - was clear second yellow card 

So annoying that if we had played like this against Leeds or Newcastle , West Brom etc then we wouldn’t have had to be battling for CL spot


----------



## fundy (May 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm watching the golf now.
United's worst performance for a long, long time.
		
Click to expand...


Rashford just missed a 2 footer


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Maybe they should introduce some kind of video review system for instances where the refferee misses something....
		
Click to expand...

Here's an idea, we could call it VAR (Video Assistant Referee) and use it to correct any referee decisions that they get wrong. Everyone would surely have to support such a system to get the correct decision made.


----------



## Tashyboy (May 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Here's an idea, we could call it VAR (Video Assistant Referee) and use it to correct any referee decisions that they get wrong. Everyone would surely have to support such a system to get the correct decision made.
		
Click to expand...

Only if it is overseen by referees, otherwise I cannot see it working. Plus I think you would have to stick themin a hit away from the ground and not let match going fans know what’s going off.


----------



## fundy (May 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Maybe they should introduce some kind of video review system for instances where the refferee misses something....
		
Click to expand...




ColchesterFC said:



			Here's an idea, we could call it VAR (Video Assistant Referee) and use it to correct any referee decisions that they get wrong. Everyone would surely have to support such a system to get the correct decision made.
		
Click to expand...


come on you guys, laughter threads that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Can anyone explain why McTominay is still on the pitch?
		
Click to expand...

And Cavani is delibaretly handball still a yellow.
60 seconds after being booked.


----------



## Blue in Munich (May 13, 2021)

So having got the CL final, Portugal now threaten to tighten the travel screws...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57107154


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

IainP said:



			Fickle nature of footy fans - from bbc text earlier 😁

#bbcfootball or text 81111 (UK only)
*Kev: *Honestly don’t understand what Firmino offers anymore to this team. He’s been so poor this season!
*Paul: *Firmino looks completely shot of confidence. Passing when he should shoot, and not even completing those passes when he attempts them!
		
Click to expand...

To be fair he has been crap all season.
But he dosnt play against such a bad defence every week.


----------



## Tashyboy (May 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			And Cavani is delibaretly handball still a yellow.
60 seconds after being booked.
		
Click to expand...

The  bit I found odd re the Cavani booking,  both his feet were off the floor and he caught the Liverpool player. It wasn’t a bad tackle. But I thought there was a red punishment for those challenges. I have seen Kompany do one or two of them  😖


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because Taylor bottled it - was clear second yellow card

So annoying that if we had played like this against Leeds or Newcastle , West Brom etc then we wouldn’t have had to be battling for CL spot
		
Click to expand...

We also took our chances!
But never killed the game at 3-1 it could have been 6 easy ,then a nervous finish.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The  bit I found odd re the Cavani booking,  both his feet were off the floor and he caught the Liverpool player. It wasn’t a bad tackle. But I thought there was a red punishment for those challenges. I have seen Kompany do one or two of them  😖
		
Click to expand...

Did you see the Mings one on DCL.
Red for me.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Here's an idea, we could call it VAR (Video Assistant Referee) and use it to correct any referee decisions that they get wrong. Everyone would surely have to support such a system to get the correct decision made.
		
Click to expand...

Does it have to be clear and obvious, like a ref seeing it from five yards.
But then overturning his own decision on a slow mo replay.


----------



## BiMGuy (May 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because Taylor bottled it - was clear second yellow card 

So annoying that if we had played like this against Leeds or Newcastle , West Brom etc then we wouldn’t have had to be battling for CL spot
		
Click to expand...

I thought he could have gone for the challenge he got the yellow for. We've seen reds for less this season.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The  bit I found odd re the Cavani booking,  both his feet were off the floor and he caught the Liverpool player. It wasn’t a bad tackle. But I thought there was a red punishment for those challenges. I have seen Kompany do one or two of them  😖
		
Click to expand...

If you only seen one or two you must have had your eyes shut most of the time.


----------



## Tashyboy (May 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you only seen one or two you must have had your eyes shut most of the time.
		
Click to expand...

That was just the one game I was on about. 🤔😁


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 13, 2021)




----------



## Liverbirdie (May 14, 2021)

I bet Chelsea and Leicester fans arent happy, Ole making 10 changes.


----------



## AmandaJR (May 14, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I bet Chelsea and Leicester fans arent happy, Ole making 10 changes.

Click to expand...


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## GG26 (May 14, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I bet Chelsea and Leicester fans arent happy, Ole making 10 changes.

Click to expand...

That’s a comment that I would expect from a primary school child in a playground, not from a grown man.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 14, 2021)

GG26 said:



			That’s a comment that I would expect from a primary school child in a playground, not from a grown man.
		
Click to expand...

Infants, actually. 

Just trying to lighten the mood, squire.

Good luck, Saturday.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			late contender in scream of the season from Bruno 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Journalists last night said that the whole press box burst out laughing when it happened 😂


----------



## DanFST (May 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Journalists last night said that the whole press box burst out laughing when it happened 😂
		
Click to expand...

Didn't watch the game. Was it worse than this? (Don't worry, he didn't even leave the pitch for treatment, absolute soldier)


----------



## Orikoru (May 14, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Didn't watch the game. Was it worse than this? (Don't worry, he didn't even leave the pitch for treatment, absolute soldier)







Click to expand...

Bruno's is definitely way more high-pitched than that, more feminine.


----------



## IainP (May 14, 2021)

Is the bunting out Gunners?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57121776
😉


----------



## fundy (May 14, 2021)

IainP said:



			Is the bunting out Gunners?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57121776
😉
		
Click to expand...

Believe it when I see it, been a U turn here before! Be nice to see him take a few friends with him too


----------



## Piece (May 14, 2021)

Well I enjoyed Newcastle 3-4 Citeh. Everyone else down the pub? 😂


----------



## 4LEX (May 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm watching the golf now.
United's worst performance for a long, long time.
		
Click to expand...

That performance was no different to the majority of Utd games this season in large parts. The difference was Liverpool punished them and there was no luck or moments of magic to salvage a result.

Awful style, lack of coaching, players out of position, woeful set piece marking/organisation and an obsession to play two negative CM's who can't pass.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 15, 2021)

Piece said:



			Well I enjoyed Newcastle 3-4 Citeh. Everyone else down the pub? 😂
		
Click to expand...

Torres first was stunning.


----------



## Slime (May 15, 2021)

4LEX said:



			That performance was no different to the majority of Utd games this season in large parts. The difference was Liverpool punished them and there was no luck or moments of magic to salvage a result.

Awful style, lack of coaching, players out of position, woeful set piece marking/organisation and an obsession to play two negative CM's who can't pass.
		
Click to expand...

🎣 ?


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## clubchamp98 (May 15, 2021)

4LEX said:



			That performance was no different to the majority of Utd games this season in large parts. The difference was Liverpool punished them and there was no luck or moments of magic to salvage a result.

Awful style, lack of coaching, players out of position, woeful set piece marking/organisation and an obsession to play two negative CM's who can't pass.
		
Click to expand...

Think they got lucky with the penalty decision.
Even if we think Yes or no they have been consistently given all season.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 15, 2021)

Wow - what a great strike , 👏👏


----------



## Orikoru (May 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - what a great strike , 👏👏
		
Click to expand...

Tielemans has unbelievable quality. He's one we were linked with who I really wish we'd signed. He'll be one of the best midfielders in the world before very long.


----------



## Orikoru (May 15, 2021)

What a save from Kasper! Unreal.


----------



## pendodave (May 15, 2021)

Lol. You hate to see it...


----------



## fundy (May 15, 2021)

and all of VAR problems are forgotten haha

Congrats Foxes


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## Liverpoolphil (May 15, 2021)

Brilliant for Leicester fans 👏

Was a good final


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## davemc1 (May 15, 2021)

Congrats to Leicester 👏🏻


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## Tashyboy (May 15, 2021)

Really chuffed to see Leicester win that. Dont think it's as "fortunate" 😉 as there prem league title.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 15, 2021)

Congratulations to Leicester.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 15, 2021)

Have to say think it’s poor that there are also Prem games on the same day as the FA Cup Final

Also maybe it’s time now Leicester replaced Spurs in the “top 6” clubs 😁


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## Piece (May 15, 2021)

Congrats Leicester! Good to share a trophy outside the Super League top six.


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## Orikoru (May 15, 2021)

Bit of a drab game, just one superb goal, one fantastic save and one VAR call were the difference really. Fair play to Leicester, obviously I preferred them to win it. A major trophy for Rodgers as well, good for him.


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## RichA (May 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have to say think it’s poor that there are also Prem games on the same day as the FA Cup Final

Also maybe it’s time now Leicester replaced Spurs in the “top 6” clubs 😁
		
Click to expand...

Maybe we should even just talk about the top 4. Dump Liverpool and Arsenal too.


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## pokerjoke (May 15, 2021)

Got to admit nothing lightens up sport when the fans are involved.
Emotional scenes.
Would absolutely hate to be a Chelsea supporter right now ,the highs of scoring a late equaliser to the despair of it being disallowed.
I bet right now it’s a hair offside and totally unjust.
But congratulations to Leicester what a last 5 years.
Thoughts are with my mate Chris who was Leicester mad and died before their league title and recent success.


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## Slime (May 15, 2021)

What a good day for sport.
First Richard Bland and now Leicester City.
A good day.


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## Slime (May 15, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Got to admit nothing lightens up sport when the fans are involved.
Emotional scenes.
Would absolutely hate to be a Chelsea supporter right now ,the highs of scoring a late equaliser to the despair of it being disallowed.
*I bet right now it’s a hair offside and totally unjust.*
But congratulations to Leicester what a last 5 years.
Thoughts are with my mate Chris who was Leicester mad and died before their league title and recent success.
		
Click to expand...


It was a hair offside, therefore, a totally just decision.


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## GG26 (May 15, 2021)

😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀🍾🤩

What a goal, what a save!   🏆


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## Voyager EMH (May 15, 2021)

One way or the other, I thought I might be tearful, and I am.


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## pauljames87 (May 15, 2021)

Lovely Strike from benrahma to level late on

Very very disappointed in Antonio again. He's such a poor player at times. Either he's the best player on pitch or the worst never just good or average 

Insists on shooting from outside the box constantly even tho Never scored a goal from there.

Need a proper striker 

Would much rather have welbeck


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## 4LEX (May 15, 2021)

Pleased for Leicester but had to turn off to put an end to the Gary Lineker show. Leicester win the cup and it's all about himself with fake tears, voice cracking up and a self absorbed cringefest.


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## Fade and Die (May 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lovely Strike from benrahma to level late on

Very very disappointed in Antonio again. He's such a poor player at times. Either he's the best player on pitch or the worst never just good or average

Insists on shooting from outside the box constantly even tho Never scored a goal from there.

Need a proper striker

Would much rather have welbeck
		
Click to expand...


Still a decent season, just looks as though we’ve run out of stream due to the wafer thin squad.


----------



## pauljames87 (May 15, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Still a decent season, just looks as though we’ve run out of stream due to the wafer thin squad.
		
Click to expand...

What it is for me is everyone said oh we made a mistake not signing a striker and hoping Antonio would stay fit 

No we hoped his purple patch would carry on

No options when like today he was awful 

So selfish 

Shots from anywhere .. has never scored for us outside the box yet shot from there more than once


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## Voyager EMH (May 16, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Pleased for Leicester but had to turn off to put an end to the Gary Lineker show. Leicester win the cup and it's all about himself with fake tears, voice cracking up and a self absorbed cringefest.
		
Click to expand...

Mr Lineker can be self deprecating and I think he would get your point - as I do - except the tears were not fake - as mine were not.


----------



## Tashyboy (May 16, 2021)

I thought the final summed up this season overall. 1 team were favourites. The other team never read the script. Unpredictable, just how i like my football ( as a neutral).
Just got one Unpredictable final to get outta the way.


----------



## Slime (May 16, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I thought the final summed up this season overall. 1 team were favourites. The other team never read the script. Unpredictable, just how i like my football ( as a neutral).
*Just got one Unpredictable final to get outta the way.*

Click to expand...

I think United will edge it over Villareal by the odd goal in three.


----------



## Tashyboy (May 16, 2021)

Slime said:



			I think United will edge it over Villareal by the odd goal in three.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Voyager EMH (May 16, 2021)

Cup's over. Premier League.
LCFC need a win against Chelsea or Spurs. Two tough games. Two draws is not enough - would then need Liverpool to lose a game against West Brom, Burnley or Palace???
Nightmare of 5th place continues.
Last day could be more nervous bottom clenching. When will Vardy score? Must happen, surely?


----------



## doublebogey7 (May 16, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			Cup's over. Premier League.
LCFC need a win against Chelsea or Spurs. Two tough games. Two draws is not enough - would then need Liverpool to lose a game against West Brom, Burnley or Palace???
		
Click to expand...

Or for Chelsea to fail to win at Villa Park next Sunday
What a great day out yeaterday, fantastic performance from the whole team immense performances fromTielemans and Kasper not to mention the two kids Fofana and Thomas. Chelsea yes had most of the ball but created very little until the last 20.  Perfectly planned by Brendan and perfectly executed by the whole team  noisily supported by the fans. Been waiting a long time for that.🦊🦊⚽️🥅


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## clubchamp98 (May 16, 2021)

Slime said:



			I think United will edge it over Villareal by the odd goal in three.
		
Click to expand...

Can’t see you getting two pens!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2021)

Mike Dean must be the only referee who makes Anthony Taylor look competent


----------



## Slime (May 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t see you getting two pens!

Click to expand...

The first goal is a wicked deflection.


----------



## fundy (May 16, 2021)

ridic VAR decision that


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2021)

This is going to be the story of the season - get back to having CL in our own hands then drop points against bottom 3 clubs🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## hairball_89 (May 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			ridic VAR decision that
		
Click to expand...

Awful. Yes the WBA player is inline with the keeper but Ali's never getting anywhere near it. Should have been 2-1.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2021)

Alisson 😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 16, 2021)

Allisson omg..


----------



## fundy (May 16, 2021)

What a header keeps


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 16, 2021)

That’s the first header we have won from a corner or free kick all day.
Very predictable.
Need a keeper to show them how to do it.
Bit lucky today but take it.
Mike Dean and VAR absolute shocking imo.
If I was big Sam I would be livid.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1393981318669688835
😂😂 what a header


----------



## Piece (May 16, 2021)

Great header! 🤑


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2021)

Class interview from Alisson 👏👏


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (May 16, 2021)

So 4th place is back on Liverpool's own hands now what with Chelsea and Leicester having to play each other?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2021)

drive4show said:



			So 4th place is back on Liverpool's own hands now what with Chelsea and Leicester having to play each other?
		
Click to expand...

Yep - it was after the UTD match , win all three of our games and we should get CL football

Leicester got a tough job playing Chelsea then Spurs


----------



## Voyager EMH (May 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep - it was after the UTD match , win all three of our games and we should get CL football

*Leicester got a tough job playing Chelsea then Spurs*

Click to expand...

Yep. Need one win. Could still finish anywhere from 2nd to 6th.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2021)

Only thing sweeter than winning in the last minute is it’s against Fat Sam and now listening to him having a good old grumble makes it just even better 😂😂😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only thing sweeter than winning in the last minute is it’s against Fat Sam and now listening to him having a good old grumble makes it just even better 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Tbh I was fearing the worst .
Great finish from Mo, but can’t remember the keeper doing much after that.
Mane looks like he’s got his boots on the wrong feet.
Dean gave some ridiculous fouls against us .
Then basically handed us the game ,shocking free kick should have been a drop ball for first goal.
Yes he’s in Alissons line but that’s harsh imo.


----------



## davemc1 (May 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Tbh I was fearing the worst .
Great finish from Mo, but can’t remember the keeper doing much after that.
Mane looks like he’s got his boots on the wrong feet.
Dean gave some ridiculous fouls against us .
Then basically handed us the game ,shocking free kick should have been a drop ball for first goal.
Yes he’s in Alissons line but that’s harsh imo.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve read your posts for ages, you’re a plant right? I honestly don’t think I’ve read a (lpool) positive post of yours. 

If you’re real an you’re not buzzin after that, then I suggest you give it up.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 16, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			I’ve read your posts for ages, you’re a plant right? I honestly don’t think I’ve read a (lpool) positive post of yours.

If you’re real an you’re not buzzin after that, then I suggest you give it up.
		
Click to expand...

Fantastic finish .
But point me in the direction of what’s not accurate.!
I just see it as it is.
Had a season ticket for over 28 yrs ,but pro football has changed so much I can take it or leave it quite easy now.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 16, 2021)

Genuinely didn’t think our home performances could get any worse.
How wrong I was, uttter, utter garbage!


----------



## Orikoru (May 16, 2021)

Mike Dean is a clown. Giving Liverpool the ball when it didn't even hit him, he's obviously got confused there. Disallowing the WBA goal was a ridiculous decision as well. Then Alisson's header - don't fancy marking him lads? The big feller with the gloves on? Ha. Football, what a game.

Had a strange experience of actually enjoying a Spurs game earlier as well. Forgot what that was like!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2021)

Been a pretty good weekend of sport 

The Bland win was a great start 

Then Leicester’s win was superb 

Alisson with the winning header and his brilliant interview bringing a tear to a few eyes 

Then Sam being all salty 

And finally Everton continuing with their mid table consistency 😂


----------



## Slime (May 16, 2021)

As much as I hate it when L'pool win a game, I have to give credit to Alisson.
Good header, great interview.
Genuinely pleased for the guy, genuinely pleased.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 16, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			One way or the other, I thought I might be tearful, and I am.
		
Click to expand...

Good for you, a proper fairytale, its what the sport is meant to be about.


----------



## 3offTheTee (May 16, 2021)

If Chelsea win Champions League, Man City, Man Utd. and Leicester 1,2 and 3 with Liverpool 4th do Liverpool still qualify?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			If Chelsea win Champions League, Man City, Man Utd. and Leicester 1,2 and 3 with Liverpool 4th do Liverpool still qualify?
		
Click to expand...

Yep 👍


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2021)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....der-arnold-out-of-euro-2020-20210517.amp.html

it wouldn’t surprise me if he still didn’t pick TAA - Southgate living off the back of a very lucky World Cup , not going to be so this time


----------



## Orikoru (May 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....der-arnold-out-of-euro-2020-20210517.amp.html

it wouldn’t surprise me if he still didn’t pick TAA - Southgate living off the back of a very lucky World Cup , not going to be so this time
		
Click to expand...

That is criminal to be honest. I can see Southgate being sacked after a particularly poor Euros for us. With the extra squad slots (which I think is nonsense but that's another issue), you'd think you talk Walker, Trippier & Trent. Or two of them + AWB for a defensive option. But that article says James is ahead of him! How??


----------



## nickjdavis (May 17, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Awful. Yes the WBA player is inline with the keeper but* Ali's never getting anywhere near it*. Should have been 2-1.
		
Click to expand...

Neither was Banks in 1970....but he did.

Not the officials judgement call to make whether the keeper would have got across to it. Was the guy offside interfering with play by blocking the keepers vision? Yes.

Personally my opinion is that any player in an offside position within about 2 or 3 yards of the keeper (irrespective of whether he is blocking his vision) is interfering with play because the keeper will be aware of him and will be making some sort of judgement/anticipation as to what the player may or may not do that may make the keeper hesitate in his decision making.


----------



## hairball_89 (May 17, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Neither was Banks in 1970....but he did...
		
Click to expand...

Fair. And that save will never be beaten! It's always going in every time you see it!

I'm happy to be wrong here, but I look at decisions and think had it been up the other end would I have been annoyed? And for that, yes I would. I understand the rule. And I'd say it was probably correctly applied. But I'm not sure I agree. 

Either way, who cares... Alison with goal of the season* saves the day!

*absolutely no exaggeration here. Ish!


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 17, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Neither was Banks in 1970....but he did.

Not the officials judgement call to make whether the keeper would have got across to it. Was the guy offside interfering with play by blocking the keepers vision? Yes.

Personally my opinion is that any player in an offside position within about 2 or 3 yards of the keeper (irrespective of whether he is blocking his vision) is interfering with play because the keeper will be aware of him and will be making some sort of judgement/anticipation as to what the player may or may not do that may make the keeper hesitate in his decision making.
		
Click to expand...

I would say that goes for any offside.
If it’s interfering with the defenders decisions then he’s offside no matter where he is.
That’s how it used to be until they started messing with all the rules.

They have messed with the rules that much over the years even the refs are getting them wrong.
We see them given in one game but not in the next.


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## clubchamp98 (May 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That is criminal to be honest. I can see Southgate being sacked after a particularly poor Euros for us. With the extra squad slots (which I think is nonsense but that's another issue), you'd think you talk Walker, Trippier & Trent. Or two of them + AWB for a defensive option. But that article says James is ahead of him! How??
		
Click to expand...

Yes I can see TAA with Kane upfront doing well.
He makes the runs in behind.
But we are talking Southgate!


----------



## hairball_89 (May 17, 2021)

So Kane has announced he wants to go. Where does he end up? And for how much?

I'd absolutely have him between Sadio and Mo, but don't see the money in the club to bring him in. He'll be in Manchester one way or the other, for my money.


----------



## Rlburnside (May 17, 2021)

Hope he goes abroad can’t stand the thought of him ending up at Chelsea or City.


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## fundy (May 17, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			So Kane has announced he wants to go. Where does he end up? And for how much?

I'd absolutely have him between Sadio and Mo, but don't see the money in the club to bring him in. He'll be in Manchester one way or the other, for my money.
		
Click to expand...


Well Levy claims he wont let him go to another club in England and wants 150m+ for him, Madrid at a push or PSG if they sell Mbappe but neither look realistic really

Kane claims he wants to stay in England with City, Utd and Chelsea interested, not sure any of them will be wanting to pay north of 100m and not sure Levy will do business at that price

May depend on where Haaland and Mbappe go too


----------



## Fade and Die (May 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			Well Levy claims he wont let him go to another club in England and wants 150m+ for him, Madrid at a push or PSG if they sell Mbappe but neither look realistic really

Kane claims he wants to stay in England with City, Utd and Chelsea interested, not sure any of them will be wanting to pay north of 100m and not sure Levy will do business at that price

May depend on where Haaland and Mbappe go too
		
Click to expand...

Kane v Haaland is a no brainer.  Kane is older, has dodgy ankles and, being English will cost a lot more. Very good striker of course but Haaland certainly appears to be the real deal and has youth on his side.

And he speaks better English.


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## clubchamp98 (May 17, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			So Kane has announced he wants to go. Where does he end up? And for how much?

I'd absolutely have him between Sadio and Mo, but don't see the money in the club to bring him in. He'll be in Manchester one way or the other, for my money.
		
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Me to a proper finisher is what we need.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			So Kane has announced he wants to go. Where does he end up? And for how much?

I'd absolutely have him between Sadio and Mo, but don't see the money in the club to bring him in. He'll be in Manchester one way or the other, for my money.
		
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the club won’t spend £100mil on a 27 year old with a history of ankle injuries 



fundy said:



			Well Levy claims he wont let him go to another club in England and wants 150m+ for him, Madrid at a push or PSG if they sell Mbappe but neither look realistic really

Kane claims he wants to stay in England with City, Utd and Chelsea interested, not sure any of them will be wanting to pay north of 100m and not sure Levy will do business at that price

May depend on where Haaland and Mbappe go too
		
Click to expand...

Don’t see any club paying £150mil for him - not when you can prob get Haaland or Mbappe for that 

I can see Man Utd getting him for around £100mil


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## chrisd (May 17, 2021)

Rumour doing the rounds is that he wants to team up with Roy Hodgson at Selhurst park. Might struggle to push Benteke out 😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			Well Levy claims he wont let him go to another club in England and wants 150m+ for him, Madrid at a push or PSG if they sell Mbappe but neither look realistic really

Kane claims he wants to stay in England with City, Utd and Chelsea interested, not sure any of them will be wanting to pay north of 100m and not sure Levy will do business at that price

May depend on where Haaland and Mbappe go too
		
Click to expand...

I’m surprised Kane has come out with this now as he’s still got 3yrs on his contract (expires June 24) so unless he has a release clause it looks like Levy holds all the cards.


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## Orikoru (May 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m surprised Kane has come out with this now as he’s still got 3yrs on his contract (expires June 24) so unless he has a release clause it looks like Levy holds all the cards.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394361957545820167
This guy has inside knowledge and usually knows the deal when it comes to Spurs. I still think the only logical place for him to go is Man City - he does really seem to love Spurs and would only be leaving for _guaranteed_ trophies, and the only place you get that is at City.


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## ColchesterFC (May 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394361957545820167
This guy has inside knowledge and usually knows the deal when it comes to Spurs. I still think the only logical place for him to go is Man City - he does really seem to love Spurs and would only be* leaving for guaranteed trophies, *and the only place you get that is at City.
		
Click to expand...

Or possibly the mighty Col U. I'm sure that with Kane up front we would be favourites for the League 2 title. Or at the very least we should win the "best team in Essex trophy" which, to be fair, is more than he's won so far in his career.


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## Fade and Die (May 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Or possibly the mighty Col U. I'm sure that with Kane up front we would be favourites for the League 2 title. Or at the very least we should win the "best team in Essex trophy" which, *to be fair, is more than he's won so far in his career.*

Click to expand...

To think he could have had so much more......

Credit: The Football Feed https://t.co/wNouI812g2


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1388876449063522305


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394361957545820167
This guy has inside knowledge and usually knows the deal when it comes to Spurs. I still think the only logical place for him to go is Man City - he does really seem to love Spurs and would only be leaving for _guaranteed_ trophies, and the only place you get that is at City.
		
Click to expand...

I get his frustration etc, but that still doesn’t mean Levy will fold, if it had been his last season under contract then yes, Levy might be under pressure to sell or Kane walks for free, but it’s not so he can want trophies as much as he likes it’s still down to Levy.

Could it be a ploy to get Levy to give the new manager “a pot of gold”?


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## Orikoru (May 18, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I get his frustration etc, but that still doesn’t mean Levy will fold, if it had been his last season under contract then yes, Levy might be under pressure to sell or Kane walks for free, but it’s not so he can want trophies as much as he likes it’s still down to Levy.

Could it be a ploy to get Levy to give the new manager “a pot of gold”?
		
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Yeah, I'm not convinced a deal will be done this summer, particularly with Kane focussing on the Euros to begin with. As you say it just makes it more crucial to get the right manager in, and probably sign a couple of defenders to make us competitive again.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2021)

This will be the last summer to cash in on Kane - to at least get close to £80mil for him

He will be 28 , hasn’t played a full season in 5 years for his club - next summer he is getting closer to that 30 mark and not many clubs will pay a significant fee for him

I think he knows that it’s now or never and he wasn’t to win trophies so he needs to leave , it’s not going to happen at Spurs so he will need to leave - we have had to deal with in the past with the likes of Torres , Suarez , Coutinho etc


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## Slime (May 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I'm not convinced a deal will be done this summer, particularly with Kane focussing on the Euros to begin with. As you say it just makes it more crucial to get the right manager in, and probably sign a couple of defenders* to make us competitive again.*

Click to expand...

Remind me.


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## Slime (May 18, 2021)

Maybe Kane will win stuff with England.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Maybe Kane will win stuff with England.
		
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more chance with Spurs 😂😂😂😂


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## Jensen (May 18, 2021)

Levy will do his best to sell him abroad. If he does stay in England I think he’ll go to Man City. He definitely will not go to Chelsea, just like with Modric who was adamant he was going there, Levy said NO 😄
In terms of his ankles I’m amazed at how quickly he does come back, and plays straight away like he’s never been out.
“Our Harry” has been a fantastic credit to the club and I’d wish him well. He IS truly a World Class player.


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## Bdill93 (May 18, 2021)

So bored of seeing Grealish linked to other premier league teams every summer. These "writers" just recycle old rubbish every year until an actual transfer occurs. 

Grealish aint going nowhere.


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## Orikoru (May 18, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			So bored of seeing Grealish linked to other premier league teams every summer. These "writers" just recycle old rubbish every year until an actual transfer occurs.

Grealish aint going nowhere.
		
Click to expand...

Honestly he should do though. I think he's absolute class and could be playing in a top six team easily.


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## nickjdavis (May 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Or possibly the mighty Col U. I'm sure that with Kane up front we would be favourites for the League 2 title. Or at the very least we should win the "*best team in Essex trophy"* which, to be fair, is more than he's won so far in his career.
		
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Do you need Kane to win that?

Southend have just been relegated from the Football League.....surely that's the competition gone?


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## fundy (May 18, 2021)

Great to see fans back inside Old Trafford

Been all of a couple of weeks lol


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Honestly he should do though. I think he's absolute class and could be playing in a top six team easily.
		
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Is that the same thinking when it comes to Kane ? He is a world class striker and should be at a team the benefits his abilities , same with Son


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## chrisd (May 18, 2021)

Saying goodbye to Roy Hodgson,  he's done a superb job in keeping us in the PL

I hope this isn't going to be a bad move but we have loads of players out of contract so I hope the new manager is going to start where Roy finishes and push on.

Rumour that Roy will replace the Klopp Express and ultimately bring more than a flash in the pan season to last years champions 😁😁


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## Slime (May 18, 2021)

Absolutely stunning!
What a signing.


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## fundy (May 18, 2021)

var at it again, theres a shock


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Absolutely stunning!
What a signing.
		
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Looks like it shouldn’t have counted - 

And was Fernandes the last man when he took out the Brighton player who was through ?


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## 4LEX (May 18, 2021)

Seriously how wrong can you get? Cavani about 4 yards offside from the original pass, Bruno didn't touch it, VAR review and still get it wrong. What is the point......


Great to see Lee Mason retiring, disgraceful unfit joke of a ref. The bad news is he'll be manning VAR and stuffing pies down his gob at Stockley Park.


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## Orikoru (May 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that the same thinking when it comes to Kane ? He is a world class striker and should be at a team the benefits his abilities , same with Son
		
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Well yeah but obviously Kane is another level up from Grealish. He would get into any team in the world.


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## Jensen (May 18, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Saying goodbye to Roy Hodgson,  he's done a superb job in keeping us in the PL

I hope this isn't going to be a bad move but we have loads of players out of contract so I hope the new manager is going to start where Roy finishes and push on.

Rumour that Roy will replace the Klopp Express and ultimately bring more than a flash in the pan season to last years champions 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

He’s a good old Croydon Boy 👍


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## ColchesterFC (May 18, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Do you need Kane to win that?

Southend have just been relegated from the Football League.....surely that's the competition gone?
		
Click to expand...

There are still footballing powerhouses such as Chelmsford City, Maldon & Tiptree, Braintree Town and Basildon United to name but a few. If we drew any of them in the FA Cup I wouldn't be putting any money on us winning.


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## fundy (May 18, 2021)

85 minutes plenty for some of the united fans, gotta beat the rush out, old habits die hard lol


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## Pin-seeker (May 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that the same thinking when it comes to Kane ? He is a world class striker and should be at a team the benefits his abilities , same with Son
		
Click to expand...

Was that your thinking about players like Suarez,Coutunho & Torres whilst at Liverpool? 🤔


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			85 minutes plenty for some of the united fans, gotta beat the rush out, old habits die hard lol
		
Click to expand...

Surely after all the protests against the owners they didn’t have fans turn up to continue putting money into the owners pockets - and did I see lots of Man Utd shirts being worn - more money into the owners pockets. Maybe that ESL business all forgotten about now - well apart from Neville again demanding strong punishments - wonder if that would include banning the six from being in Europe next season 🙄


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## Blue in Munich (May 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			85 minutes plenty for some of the united fans, gotta beat the rush out, old habits die hard lol
		
Click to expand...

It's a long way back to Surrey, especially with an evening kick off.


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## Pin-seeker (May 18, 2021)

If Kane goes to City you might aswell give them the title next season.


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## fundy (May 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely after all the protests against the owners they didn’t have fans turn up to continue putting money into the owners pockets - and did I see lots of Man Utd shirts being worn - more money into the owners pockets. Maybe that ESL business all forgotten about now - well apart from Neville again demanding strong punishments - wonder if that would include banning the six from being in Europe next season 🙄
		
Click to expand...

As a fan of one of the 6 I totally agree that all 6 should be banned from Europe next season 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## fundy (May 18, 2021)

this Foden kid looks useful..............


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## Blue in Munich (May 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely after all the protests against the owners they didn’t have fans turn up to continue putting money into the owners pockets - and did I see lots of Man Utd shirts being worn - more money into the owners pockets. Maybe that ESL business all forgotten about now - well apart from Neville again demanding strong punishments - wonder if that would include banning the six from being in Europe next season 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Neville needs to wind his neck in.  The punishments are done & dusted for the 9 that withdrew, UEFA have accepted that, why can't he?


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## ColchesterFC (May 18, 2021)

A question, mainly, for fans of Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City (as they are the only ones that could realistically afford the players) but if Mbappe, Haaland and Kane were all available this summer, which *one* would you want your club to get?


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			As a fan of one of the 6 I totally agree that all 6 should be banned from Europe next season 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Would that make sense?
If all the leagues across Europe followed suit it wouldn’t be worth watching.
It’s all about the money.
But I do agree they should be punished in some way


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## fundy (May 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Would that make sense?
If all the leagues across Europe followed suit it wouldn’t be worth watching.
It’s all about the money.
But I do agree they should be punished in some way
		
Click to expand...


Well our conscience is clear as we have voluntarily banned ourselves and taken the punishment


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## Slime (May 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like it shouldn’t have counted -

And was Fernandes the last man when he took out the Brighton player who was through ?
		
Click to expand...

A) He was 50yards from goal, not quite a clear scoring opportunity.
B) He hardly 'took him out'. They came together when the Fulham player cut across Bruno. A yellow card was more than enough.


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			Well our conscience is clear as we have voluntarily banned ourselves and taken the punishment 

Click to expand...

Not sure about that !
I don’t think it’s all over yet.
This will come back I am pretty sure.


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			A) He was 50yards from goal, not quite a clear scoring opportunity.
B) He hardly 'took him out'. They came together when the Fulham player cut across Bruno. A yellow card was more than enough.
		
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How far was Cavani from goal and he scored?


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## Slime (May 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			A question, mainly, for fans of Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City (as they are the only ones that could realistically afford the players) but if Mbappe, Haaland and Kane were all available this summer, which *one* would you want your club to get?
		
Click to expand...

Haaland, Mbappe and Kane ........................................ in that order.


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## Slime (May 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			How far was Cavani from goal and he scored?
		
Click to expand...

Not 50 yards, more like 35 yards.


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## fundy (May 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Not 50 yards, more like 35 yards.
		
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how far was foden from goal when he picked the ball up


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Not 50 yards, more like 35 yards.
		
Click to expand...

More like 45 yds.
Quality finish.
Won’t get goal of the season though that’s already got Alissons name on.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			A question, mainly, for fans of Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City (as they are the only ones that could realistically afford the players) but if Mbappe, Haaland and Kane were all available this summer, which *one* would you want your club to get?
		
Click to expand...

Oh I think a few more can afford the players , we could afford the players - whether the club will spend the level needed is different matter I suppose 

But it’s Mbappe because he has the lot , Haaland then Kane 



Slime said:



			A) He was 50yards from goal, not quite a clear scoring opportunity.
B) He hardly 'took him out'. They came together when the Fulham player cut across Bruno. A yellow card was more than enough.
		
Click to expand...

1. Does it matter how far away if the player is potentially clear on goal 

2. Yes - took him out , tripped him , fouled him 

if Rashford is tripped like that in his own half then it’s going to be a goalscoring chance


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## AmandaJR (May 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			A question, mainly, for fans of Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City (as they are the only ones that could realistically afford the players) but if Mbappe, Haaland and Kane were all available this summer, which *one* would you want your club to get?
		
Click to expand...

I think any of them would do well at City and would be happy to see any of them signed. Soft spot for Kane but his age, injuries and possibly desire would concern me a little especially at the price. So Haaland, Kane, Mbappe in that order. Something about Mbappe I find a bit too arrogant.


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## Slime (May 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			how far was foden from goal when he picked the ball up 

Click to expand...

No idea, didn't see it.


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I think any of them would do well at City and would be happy to see any of them signed. Soft spot for Kane but his age, injuries and possibly desire would concern me a little especially at the price. So Haaland, Kane, Mbappe in that order. Something about Mbappe I find a bit too arrogant.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think Kane will want to rotate and be on the bench.
Then again he might want / need the rest, and it might prolong his playing days.
Who knows.
But if he does sign imagine how many goals he will score in a team that creates so many chances.

Halland for Liverpool would be nice.


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			No idea, didn't see it.
		
Click to expand...

60 yds.


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## Tashyboy (May 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			A question, mainly, for fans of Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City (as they are the only ones that could realistically afford the players) but if Mbappe, Haaland and Kane were all available this summer, which *one* would you want your club to get?
		
Click to expand...

Haaland, Grealish, Mbappe 👍


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Haaland, Grealish, Mbappe 👍
		
Click to expand...

He will have to sell an oil well to buy all three!


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

That should be red for Jesus what a horrible little p...k


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## 4LEX (May 18, 2021)

Kane would be the best for Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and City. At his peak, proven, great in the air, superb finisher, all round game and a total professional. No ego or arrogance, just a pure footballer. All four are lacking the player of his type too.

Cost and resale value Haaland would shade it though. Whoever signs Kane on a 4 year deal would have to write off at least 2/3 of his transfer fee.


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## ColchesterFC (May 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That should be red for Jesus what a horrible little p...k
		
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What's he done? I'm watching the Chelsea v Leicester game.


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			What's he done? I'm watching the Chelsea v Leicester game.
		
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Really petty studs in the knee of llalana.
Fortunately he’s crap and missed him mostly.
They really don’t like getting beaten.


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## Tashyboy (May 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He will have to sell an oil well to buy all three!
		
Click to expand...

😂😂 I hope all the electric cars need oil or else City will be back in Div 2 in 2050


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Kane would be the best for Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and City. At his peak, proven, great in the air, superb finisher, all round game and a total professional. No ego or arrogance, just a pure footballer. All four are lacking the player of his type too.

Cost and resale value Haaland would shade it though. Whoever signs Kane on a 4 year deal would have to write off at least 2/3 of his transfer fee.
		
Click to expand...

City need a striker.
Kane needs some medals.
Can’t see him going anywhere else, as long as Pep wants him.


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			😂😂 I hope all the electric cars need oil or else City will be back in Div 2 in 2050
		
Click to expand...

The cars don’t but all the power stations will.
So think your safe for a bit.


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## GG26 (May 18, 2021)

We’ve dodged around five bullets in the first half including a stonewall penalty.  Can we nick a win in the second?


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## AmandaJR (May 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Really petty studs in the knee of llalana.
Fortunately he’s crap and missed him mostly.
*They really don’t like getting beaten*.
		
Click to expand...

Thank goodness for that.


----------



## GG26 (May 18, 2021)

GG26 said:



			We’ve dodged around five bullets in the first half including a stonewall penalty.  Can we nick a win in the second?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe not ☹️


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## Blue in Munich (May 18, 2021)

4LEX said:



*Seriously how wrong can you get? *Cavani about 4 yards offside from the original pass, Bruno didn't touch it, VAR review and still get it wrong. What is the point......


Great to see Lee Mason retiring, disgraceful unfit joke of a ref. The bad news is he'll be manning VAR and stuffing pies down his gob at Stockley Park.
		
Click to expand...

If you want to know watch the Chelsea Leicester game; first half, absolute stonewall penalty to Chelsea, free kick given to Leicester; second half, player running out of the area, barely touched, penalty to Chelsea.  It is an absolute farce.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2021)

Well that’s a result that makes the CL spaces on an edge now 

Chelsea go into 3rd on 67

If Liverpool win tomorrow they go into 4th on GD

So the final day could be very interesting 

Liverpool have Burnley and Palace
Chelsea have Villa 
Leicester have Spurs 

Could go anyway 

and Mike Dean is a shocking ref - zero control of the match and some baffling decisions , he masks his poor ability with some “crazy antics”


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Thank goodness for that.
		
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That’s just really nasty though.


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## BiMGuy (May 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Haaland, 

























Mbappe and Kane ........................................ in that order.
		
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Fixed that. Haaland is a different class to the other two.


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## 4LEX (May 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			City need a striker.
Kane needs some medals.
Can’t see him going anywhere else, as long as Pep wants him.
		
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Pep will break the bank for him. He hates pure strikers and Kane is the best all round striker there is. City will be untouchable with Kane upfront.


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## 4LEX (May 18, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			If you want to know watch the Chelsea Leicester game; first half, absolute stonewall penalty to Chelsea, free kick given to Leicester; second half, player running out of the area, barely touched, penalty to Chelsea.  It is an absolute farce.
		
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I didn't see it but doesn't surprise me. Refs have an excuse for getting in wrong in the moment, VAR has no excuse.


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## 4LEX (May 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that’s a result that makes the CL spaces on an edge now

Chelsea go into 3rd on 67

If Liverpool win tomorrow they go into 4th on GD

So the final day could be very interesting

Liverpool have Burnley and Palace
Chelsea have Villa
Leicester have Spurs

Could go anyway

and Mike Dean is a shocking ref - zero control of the match and some baffling decisions , he masks his poor ability with some “crazy antics”
		
Click to expand...

I think Leicester will do a job on Spurs with Mason in charge. He'll be too scared to drop Bale or Alli and Spurs will play a front 4/5 and get done.


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## Blue in Munich (May 18, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I didn't see it but doesn't surprise me. Refs have an excuse for getting in wrong in the moment, VAR has no excuse.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394739162549571585
Somebody please explain how this wasn't given?


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2021)

Just seen the City red card.
That’s a farce Wellbeck initiated it and I don’t even think it’s a foul.
50/50 at best.
Refs not had a good night.


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## Tashyboy (May 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394739162549571585
Somebody please explain how this wasn't given?
		
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Dear lord that is an absolute shocker. How can you not go to VAR for that. How did the person looking at the screen not tell the ref to go to the pitch side monitor.


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Dear lord that is an absolute shocker. How can you not go to VAR for that. How did the person looking at the screen not tell the ref to go to the pitch side monitor.
		
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We had one few months ago like that (altho that was far worse)

For me the issue yes is poor ref and var but also changing the interpretation mid season 

At the start all of them were given and then they started not because they were given new advise 

Same with hand ball ..they almost brought back ball to hand if it was in a natural position ...which whilst the correct decision how on earth can it be done mid season? You will watch a game see a hand ball not get a pen but 4 months ago would have 

Mental


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Honestly he should do though. I think he's absolute class and could be playing in a top six team easily.
		
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Hes a top 5 player. No doubt about it. But he doesnt need to go anywhere yet. We're not far away from challenging for a european spot if our recruitment goes well this summer - just fell off this year after Jack went down injured for 12 games!


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## BiMGuy (May 19, 2021)

Just seen the Man City red. That has to be one of the worst decisions of the season. It should have been a foul against Welbeck if anything.

The tackle on Jesus at the end should have been a pen and a possible red for Lallana for going over the top of the ball. 

I liked Bamford's comments about players having to dive or go down easily to get decisions.


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## Tashyboy (May 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Just seen the Man City red. That has to be one of the worst decisions of the season. It should have been a foul against Welbeck if anything.

The tackle on Jesus at the end should have been a pen and a possible red for Lallana for going over the top of the ball.

I liked Bamford's comments about players having to dive or go down easily to get decisions.
		
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Didn't see any of the game but a lot of City fans after congratulating Brighton are seething at the ref for a poor game ( for both teams).


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## Orikoru (May 19, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Hes a top 5 player. No doubt about it. But he doesnt need to go anywhere yet. We're not far away from challenging for a european spot if our recruitment goes well this summer - just fell off this year after Jack went down injured for 12 games!
		
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Depends what kind of mentality he has I guess. He may be fed up of the team relying on him and only him to win games. But some players thrive on being the big fish in a small pond. Like Zaha for example.


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Depends what kind of mentality he has I guess. He may be fed up of the team relying on him and only him to win games. But some players thrive on being the big fish in a small pond. Like Zaha for example.
		
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Feel like Zaha wanted to go a year or so ago but got priced out of a move.

Jacks 25 and the captain of his boyhood club. The passion he has for AVFC is unquestionable, im sure most fans would agree, give it one more season an if we progress again (we went from relegation fodder to comfortable mid table - and with jack could have been pushing europe) he might stay. He deserves a go at trophies if we cant give him that, id hate to hold him back too long, but I think he buys into the project our owners have started. 

Wes Edens knows how to run a sports team, we have extremely wealthy owners who are investing heavily - rumours we have £260 million to spend thanks to them just injecting more and more cash. (Some will go on villa park renovations im sure) Its a great time to be a villain. Jack knows it. 

P.S Konsa for England.


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## Orikoru (May 19, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Feel like Zaha wanted to go a year or so ago but got priced out of a move.

Jacks 25 and the captain of his boyhood club. The passion he has for AVFC is unquestionable, im sure most fans would agree, give it one more season an if we progress again (we went from relegation fodder to comfortable mid table - and with jack could have been pushing europe) he might stay. He deserves a go at trophies if we cant give him that, id hate to hold him back too long, but I think he buys into the project our owners have started.

Wes Edens knows how to run a sports team, we have extremely wealthy owners who are investing heavily - rumours we have £260 million to spend thanks to them just injecting more and more cash. (Some will go on villa park renovations im sure) Its a great time to be a villain. Jack knows it.

P.S Konsa for England.
		
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Yes, as a Spurs fan I have kidded myself in similar ways many a time. They always leave.


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yes, as a Spurs fan I have kidded myself in similar ways many a time. They always leave.
		
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Spursy Spurs!


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## Blue in Munich (May 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Dear lord that is an absolute shocker. How can you not go to VAR for that. How did the person looking at the screen not tell the ref to go to the pitch side monitor.
		
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They DID go to VAR, and they still didn't give it.  There is a history to these decisions...


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## clubchamp98 (May 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Just seen the Man City red. That has to be one of the worst decisions of the season. It should have been a foul against Welbeck if anything.

The tackle on Jesus at the end should have been a pen and a possible red for Lallana for going over the top of the ball.

I liked Bamford's comments about players having to dive or go down easily to get decisions.
		
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Agree the red card shocker!
Jesus should not have been on the pitch for his hack on llalanas knee. But over the top was very lucky.
Bamford is spot on .
Thing is though these refs will all have big games on Sunday.
Where a player making a big mistake is dropped


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## Blue in Munich (May 19, 2021)

Chelsea have announced that they are subsidising packages to the Champions League final; flights will be £199 plus the cost of a match ticket which is...

Ticket prices 

Category 1 £515
Category 2 £386.50
Category 3 £154.50
Category 4 £60
Wheelchair £60
Ambulant £60

I am so glad I went when I did & had the day I did.  I'm in the fortunate position of being able to afford to go again, but I refuse to pay UEFA those prices.


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## clubchamp98 (May 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Chelsea have announced that they are subsidising packages to the Champions League final; flights will be £199 plus the cost of a match ticket which is...

Ticket prices 

Category 1 £515
Category 2 £386.50
Category 3 £154.50
Category 4 £60
Wheelchair £60
Ambulant £60

I am so glad I went when I did & had the day I did.  I'm in the fortunate position of being able to afford to go again, but I refuse to pay UEFA those prices. 

Click to expand...

Good on you.
Cash is god to UEFA.
WHAT HAPPENED TO LOOKING AFTER THE FANS.?


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## pokerjoke (May 19, 2021)

Forum stalwart on sky sports
Great to be back watching mate


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## Fade and Die (May 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Chelsea have announced that they are subsidising packages to the Champions League final; flights will be £199 plus the cost of a match ticket which is...

Ticket prices 

Category 1 £515
Category 2 £386.50
Category 3 £154.50
Category 4 £60
Wheelchair £60
Ambulant £60

I am so glad I went when I did & had the day I did.  I'm in the fortunate position of being able to afford to go again, but I refuse to pay UEFA those prices. 

Click to expand...

Don’t blame you, especially as you did go before. But if in a parallel universe it was West Ham I think I would be buying two of the Cat 2 tickets. Thinking it would be a once in a lifetime chance.


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## Blue in Munich (May 19, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Don’t blame you, especially as you did go before. But if in a parallel universe it was West Ham I think I would be buying two of the Cat 2 tickets. Thinking it would be a once in a lifetime chance.
		
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And in that parallel universe I'd quite understand you doing it.  Not sure I'd be pulling for West Ham though...


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## Fade and Die (May 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And in that parallel universe I'd quite understand you doing it.  Not sure I'd be pulling for West Ham though... 

Click to expand...

What not even in a parallel universe? 😁


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## fundy (May 19, 2021)

hows that Lloris challenge different to Cash on Kane earlier in the year?


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## Blue in Munich (May 19, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			What not even in a parallel universe? 😁
		
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Would depend on who you were playing, but probably not.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 19, 2021)

Bet Spurs are happy the fans are back 😂 good to hear the boo boys back 😂


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2021)

If I was spurs id be hooking reguilion .. sod it even bale would do better back there today 

His heads gone


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## paddyc (May 19, 2021)

If that was an Arsenal  player who struck Benteke he would have been off no doubt about it, how was that not a red


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## AmandaJR (May 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Bet Spurs are happy the fans are back 😂 good to hear the boo boys back 😂
		
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How can they do that? First game back. Shocking.


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			How can they do that? First game back. Shocking.
		
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Think most of the spurs fans have been wanting to boo them since they were 1st and loving life and now battling to finish above west ham


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2021)

Never like rice on pens, would rather soucek 

Least the keeper is on a yellow I guess


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## fundy (May 19, 2021)

3 points we didnt really deserve, arteta bailed out again by a player he doesnt want to pick. seriously just give the kids a proper chance!!!!!


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2021)

Soucek levels 

Hopefully that will spur us on second half to level our best ever points total


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## BiMGuy (May 19, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			How can they do that? First game back. Shocking.
		
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I went to Spurs v Chelsea a few years ago at Wembley. Spurs were winning 3-0 ans some of the Spurs fans were booing and complaining. The atmosphere was so flat. I've never witnessed anything like it.

If Leeds were beaten any team, never mind a local rival 3-0 Elland Road would be bouncing.


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## Orikoru (May 19, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			How can they do that? First game back. Shocking.
		
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Be fair, we are absolute  though.

P.S. Dunno if you saw the report but our tickets for this game were more expensive than any other team apparently. Justified? Yeah...


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## Liverpoolphil (May 19, 2021)

Well after such an up and down season we still have a chance to get in CL , win against Palace - when considering the level of injuries this seasons it’s a great end result if we make it


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Spursy Spurs!


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@Orikoru want to talk about it?


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## hairball_89 (May 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Be fair, we are absolute  though.

P.S. Dunno if you saw the report but our tickets for this game were more expensive than any other team apparently. Justified? Yeah...
		
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And the banners and advertising were more important than the fans! Bizarre that those fans that were in had to get a nosebleed instead of being down by the pitch.


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2021)

Vital win tonight 

6th place is very much in our hands 

Just a point required 

I think we will get the point. Nothing to do with Southampton being the game so it's not disrespecting them, it's just this is a record breaking season (for the club)

Most wins in a premier League season 
Most away wins 
Level most points total (that's why I think we will get a point to seal the most)
Never finished above arsenal in premier League history ...completed that lol 

So much better than last season 

Team looks tired but still has its togetherness


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2021)

Just seen Kane’s walk around the pitch at the end. That’s a cheerio walk, not a thanks for this year see you next.☹️


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Just seen Kane’s walk around the pitch at the end. That’s a cheerio walk, not a thanks for this year see you next.☹️
		
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Bloke deserves better, like when rice leaves I will thank him and wish him well

Few years back when spurs were looking good and building around him yes he was getting what he needed

But the no buying players for 4 windows was it whilst the squad aged around him was criminal 

Always said you need to spend 30-40 million just to stand still in the league with players aging etc and others improving around 

This year will be less due to covid money will be tight 

But kane needs to go now..he's given his best years to spurs and got nothing to show for it 

Let him get least one trophy


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## AmandaJR (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Be fair, we are absolute  though.

P.S. Dunno if you saw the report but our tickets for this game were more expensive than any other team apparently. Justified? Yeah...
		
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None of that is great BUT if you bought a ticket for the first game back at least get behind the team.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Bloke deserves better, like when rice leaves I will thank him and wish him well

Few years back when spurs were looking good and building around him yes he was getting what he needed

But the no buying players for 4 windows was it whilst the squad aged around him was criminal

Always said you need to spend 30-40 million just to stand still in the league with players aging etc and others improving around

This year will be less due to covid money will be tight

But kane needs to go now..he's given his best years to spurs and *got nothing to show for it*

Let him get least one trophy
		
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What a load of tosh, they gave him a contract worth £10 mil a year, please let’s not get all starry eyed about deserving trophies.

Spurs have looked after him and he’s been handsomely rewarded.

Some Pro’s dedicate their lives to virtually 1 Club for way less than he’s on.

No Footballer “deserves” a trophy.

Yes he’s one of the World’s best, but please let’s not try and make out he’s been hard done to.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			What a load of tosh, they gave him a contract worth £10 mil a year, please let’s not get all starry eyed about deserving trophies.

Spurs have looked after him and he’s been handsomely rewarded.

Some Pro’s dedicate their lives to virtually 1 Club for way less than he’s on.

No Footballer “deserves” a trophy.

Yes he’s one of the World’s best, but please let’s not try and make out he’s been hard done to.
		
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Yes and no

They gave him contract yes, was well paid yes

However they had a squad on verge of something special and under invested 

A few shrewed buys and they would have been title contenders 

If neutral hat on I'd like to see United buy him and rice as that would put them back as a title contender

If he goes city they will be unstoppable

At Liverpool they would be unbearable


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yes and no

They gave him contract yes, was well paid yes

However they had a squad on verge of something special and under invested

A few shrewed buys and they would have been title contenders

If neutral hat on I'd like to see United buy him and rice as that would put them back as a title contender

If he goes city they will be unstoppable

At Liverpool they would be unbearable
		
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So it’s a team game, I’m not for one minute underestimating his ability, but without Kane the Teams you mention will probably win trophies anyway.

Maybe City should sign Mark Noble and guarantee him a trophy, he’s a perfect example of a Pro whose career and loyalty deserves a Winner’s medal.


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yes and no

They gave him contract yes, was well paid yes

However they had a squad on verge of something special and under invested

A few shrewed buys and they would have been title contenders

If neutral hat on I'd like to see United buy him and rice as that would put them back as a title contender

If he goes city they will be unstoppable

At Liverpool they would be unbearable
		
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I'd be annoyed if he goes to United, because honestly I don't think they're in a massively better state than us. Yes they've done quite well this season and finished higher than us, but generally they don't have a top squad or a top manager. On paper no better than us, we've just under-performed and they've over-performed. The only team I can realistically see him joining is City, because they tick all the boxes - guaranteed trophies and can afford him. I don't think Liverpool would stump up the cash, I don't think Levy would sell to Chelsea or that Kane would leave us for them, and if the stories around the Euro Super League were true then Real, Barca, Juve etc all don't have a pot to pee in! PSG is possible with the Poch factor, but I think Kane is too competitive to go to such a poor league.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			So it’s a team game, I’m not for one minute underestimating his ability, but without Kane the Teams you mention will probably win trophies anyway.

Maybe City should sign Mark Noble and guarantee him a trophy, he’s a perfect example of a Pro whose career and loyalty deserves a Winner’s medal.
		
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Hardly the same 

Kane is fantastic , world's best 

Noble is a below average pro who found his level? Infact if he wasn't academy player he would have been shipped out.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'd be annoyed if he goes to United, because honestly I don't think they're in a massively better state than us. Yes they've done quite well this season and finished higher than us, but generally they don't have a top squad or a top manager. On paper no better than us, we've just under-performed and they've over-performed. The only team I can realistically see him joining is City, because they tick all the boxes - guaranteed trophies and can afford him. I don't think Liverpool would stump up the cash, I don't think Levy would sell to Chelsea or that Kane would leave us for them, and if the stories around the Euro Super League were true then Real, Barca, Juve etc all don't have a pot to pee in! PSG is possible with the Poch factor, but I think Kane is too competitive to go to such a poor league.
		
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United are afraid to spend cash though 

I mean Bruno, what a signing 

Maguire was the signing they needed at the time 

Wan bassaka aswell 

Good players at expensive fees 

Spurs wasted 70 mil on nbomdele and Sanchez has been a disaster


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Hardly the same

Kane is fantastic , world's best

Noble is a below average pro who found his level? Infact if he wasn't academy player he would have been shipped out.
		
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Being the “World’s Best” does not give him an automatic right to win trophies, that’s the point! It’s sentimental rubbish.

Kane will improve any team, but suggest he deserves a trophy anymore than any other Pro is daft.


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			United are afraid to spend cash though

I mean Bruno, what a signing

Maguire was the signing they needed at the time

Wan bassaka aswell

Good players at expensive fees

Spurs wasted 70 mil on nbomdele and Sanchez has been a disaster
		
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Well we can all cherry pick? Utd wasted money on Van de Beek, Fred, Dalot, Alexis Sanchez, etc. I never said they wouldn't spend what Kane will cost. I just mean it would be disappointing if he went there, because to my mind it would say he lied and it was actually about money rather than trophies. 

Ndombele is fantastic by the way. He was one of our better players for a lot of this season. Mason has literally dropped him for no reason, but he's not a manager so can't read much into that. You're moaning that we didn't spend enough earlier, now we spent too much so which is it? In all seriousness, it was buying nobody in 2018/19 that was the killer for Poch. We really burned out at the end of that season, getting the Champs final was a bit of luck really. Poch was mentally drained after that as well and didn't have it in him anymore.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well we can all cherry pick? Utd wasted money on Van de Beek, Fred, Dalot, Alexis Sanchez, etc. I never said they wouldn't spend what Kane will cost. I just mean it would be disappointing if he went there, because to my mind it would say he lied and it was actually about money rather than trophies.

Ndombele is fantastic by the way. He was one of our better players for a lot of this season. Mason has literally dropped him for no reason, but he's not a manager so can't read much into that. You're moaning that we didn't spend enough earlier, now we spent too much so which is it? In all seriousness, it was buying nobody in 2018/19 that was the killer for Poch. We really burned out at the end of that season, getting the Champs final was a bit of luck really. Poch was mentally drained after that as well and didn't have it in him anymore.
		
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Wasted money yes but not their only signings 

Look at Doherty, why did you sign him to hardly play Him?


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Wasted money yes but not their only signings

Look at Doherty, why did you sign him to hardly play Him?
		
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We did play him and he was bloody crap! He only cost £15m anyway which is nothing these days. Now we know why! Wolves knew something we didn't.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			We did play him and he was bloody crap! He only cost £15m anyway which is nothing these days. Now we know why! Wolves knew something we didn't. 

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Knew how to play him lol he was one of the best players for them last year 

But didn't you buy a player who's been playing fantastic as basically a winger and try him at right back? Poor recruitment


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Knew how to play him lol he was one of the best players for them last year

But didn't you buy a player who's been playing fantastic as basically a winger and try him at right back? Poor recruitment
		
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I agree it was pointless to buy him unless we were going to play wing backs. I'm not sure why we've gone down this rabbit hole though.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Hardly the same

Kane is fantastic , world's best

*Noble is a below average pro who found his level? Infact if he wasn't academy player he would have been shipped out.*

Click to expand...

Played over 400 games at the top level - would suggest that he is more than a “below average pro” and his early years ignored based on current level. But then that’s West Ham fans and their treatment of the team and players - no surprise they have their best season in decades when the toxic atmosphere isn’t there




Orikoru said:



			I'd be annoyed if he goes to United, because honestly I don't think they're in a massively better state than us. Yes they've done quite well this season and finished higher than us, but generally they don't have a top squad or a top manager. On paper no better than us, we've just under-performed and they've over-performed. The only team I can realistically see him joining is City, because they tick all the boxes - guaranteed trophies and can afford him. I don't think Liverpool would stump up the cash, I don't think Levy would sell to Chelsea or that Kane would leave us for them, and if the stories around the Euro Super League were true then Real, Barca, Juve etc all don't have a pot to pee in! PSG is possible with the Poch factor, but I think Kane is too competitive to go to such a poor league.
		
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Man Utd are one of the biggest clubs in the world and will have CL - they are a level up from Spurs , who have had a couple seasons of  CL and a big stadium, there is no doubt that Kane would jump to go to UTD just like many players have in the past and will continue to do so -  they have the pull and the money. Kane is going to have a better chance of winning trophies at  Man Utd

But he will prob end up at City to replace Aguero - and whilst he is world class i don’t see the title being done and dusted if they do get him


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Played over 400 games at the top level - would suggest that he is more than a “below average pro” and his early years ignored based on current level. But then that’s West Ham fans and their treatment of the team and players - no surprise they have their best season in decades when the toxic atmosphere isn’t there




Man Utd are one of the biggest clubs in the world and will have CL - they are a level up from Spurs , who have had a couple seasons of  CL and a big stadium, there is no doubt that Kane would jump to go to UTD just like many players have in the past and will continue to do so -  they have the pull and the money. Kane is going to have a better chance of winning trophies at  Man Utd

But he will prob end up at City to replace Aguero - and whilst he is world class i don’t see the title being done and dusted if they do get him
		
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And if you actually read my posts I've said that myself .. so your clever little comment is just a copy of my own observations 

So again showing you don't know much 🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			And if you actually read my posts I've said that myself .. so your clever little comment is just a copy of my own observations

So again showing you don't know much 🤣
		
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🤷‍♂️
You said he is a below average pro

I said a below average pro doesn’t play over 400 games at the top level , so I don’t believe is a below average pro 🤷‍♂️- was there there somewhere else where you said that 🤷‍♂️


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## Bdill93 (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Played over 400 games at the top level - would suggest that he is more than a “below average pro” and his early years ignored based on current level. But then that’s West Ham fans and their treatment of the team and players - no surprise they have their best season in decades when the toxic atmosphere isn’t there




Man Utd are one of the biggest clubs in the world and will have CL - they are a level up from Spurs , who have had a couple seasons of  CL and a big stadium, there is no doubt that Kane would jump to go to UTD just like many players have in the past and will continue to do so -  they have the pull and the money. Kane is going to have a better chance of winning trophies at  Man Utd

But he will prob end up at City to replace Aguero - and whilst he is world class i don’t see the title being done and dusted if they do get him
		
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Sorry, but if Kane does go to City - the league is over before a ball is kicked, Id expect them to push to beat the record point tally too! He is injury prone though! 

Liverpool need a goal scoring striker (20+) to compete with a City team that includes Kane.

The gap between City and everyone else this season is big already, throw in the prems best striker and its absolutely outragous.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️
You said he is a below average pro

I said a below average pro doesn’t play over 400 games at the top level , so I don’t believe is a below average pro 🤷‍♂️- was there there somewhere else where you said that 🤷‍♂️
		
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He is below average.

Being part of a poor west ham side who scrap through the premier League survival every year at the time doesn't make you above average or even average 

Not a good player at all

But can take a pen.

If he was any good a club would have bought him during relegation or at another time.

Also I've said since last season we are better without the fans. So .. clever comments are just stupid 🤣


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Man Utd are one of the biggest clubs in the world and will have CL - they are a level up from Spurs , who have had a couple seasons of  CL and a big stadium, there is no doubt that Kane would jump to go to UTD just like many players have in the past and will continue to do so -  they have the pull and the money. Kane is going to have a better chance of winning trophies at  Man Utd

But he will prob end up at City to replace Aguero - and whilst he is world class i don’t see the title being done and dusted if they do get him
		
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Traditionally of course United are bigger, but over the last five years they haven't been any better than us. In the old days when they took Berbatov, Carrick, Sheringham off us they were fighting for the league and we were trying to get Europa. It hasn't been that way lately, and I don't think this one season being similar to that erases the last 5-6 years. 

Don't get me wrong, I can definitely see him going there, I'll just be very disappointed. Whereas if he goes City I say fair play and good luck. He could win it all in a few years and come back to us when he's 33.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Traditionally of course United are bigger, but over the last five years they haven't been any better than us. In the old days when they took Berbatov, Carrick, Sheringham off us they were fighting for the league and we were trying to get Europa. It hasn't been that way lately, and I don't think this one season being similar to that erases the last 5-6 years. 

Don't get me wrong, I can definitely see him going there, I'll just be very disappointed. Whereas if he goes City I say fair play and good luck. He could win it all in a few years and come back to us when he's 33. 

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Long as he beats Shearer's record


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Long as he beats Shearer's record
		
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If he goes to City I think he definitely will. You can see him getting 25-30 goals every season in that team.


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## DanFST (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But then that’s West Ham fans and their treatment of the team and players - no surprise they have their best season in decades when the toxic atmosphere isn’t there
		
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Incredibly ignorant. And incredibly incorrect, no change there


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## Bdill93 (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			He is below average.

Being part of a poor west ham side who scrap through the premier League survival every year at the time doesn't make you above average or even average

Not a good player at all

But can take a pen.

If he was any good a club would have bought him during relegation or at another time.

Also I've said since last season we are better without the fans. So .. clever comments are just stupid 🤣
		
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Disagree - anyone good enough to lace their boots in that many top tier games, for multiple managers is an above average player. Not top 4/6 level but those are the elite.


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## Jensen (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Traditionally of course United are bigger, but over the last five years they haven't been any better than us. In the old days when they took Berbatov, Carrick, Sheringham off us they were fighting for the league and we were trying to get Europa. It hasn't been that way lately, and I don't think this one season being similar to that erases the last 5-6 years.

Don't get me wrong, I can definitely see him going there, I'll just be very disappointed. Whereas if he goes City I say fair play and good luck. He could win it all in a few years and come back to us when he's 33. 

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Just like Sheringham did, he went to Man United and he won the lot


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Disagree - anyone good enough to lace their boots in that many top tier games, for multiple managers is an above average player. Not top 4/6 level but those are the elite.
		
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He papered over the cracks for years 

We also shipped out a lot of potential good players to keep him 

First half his career he was good for us but past 3 seasons at least he been on a down wood spiral and been holding us back drastically .. but we just stuck with him

Soucek and rice .. what a revelation a fluid midfield can do


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			He is below average.

Being part of a poor west ham side who scrap through the premier League survival every year at the time doesn't make you above average or even average

Not a good player at all

But can take a pen.

If he was any good a club would have bought him during relegation or at another time.

Also I've said since last season we are better without the fans. So .. clever comments are just stupid 🤣
		
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What sort of level do you think players who float around the championship, league 1 , 2 etc 

There are approximately 5000 professional footballers in England I believe it is - only the top 5% play regularly in the Premiership- and you think some who has played over 400 games at the top level is below average ? Nonsense

He isn’t world class or a top top player but any solid Premiership player who has played regularly in the Premier league is a very good footballer as well as playing a significant amount of times for international levels. 

I must also apologise for not remembering what you said last season 🙄 how could I forget what you said - as for clever comments who was it that called Liverpool “unbearable” 30 mins ago - maybe look in the mirror before pointing fingers.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What sort of level do you think players who float around the championship, league 1 , 2 etc 

There are approximately 5000 professional footballers in England I believe it is - only the top 5% play regularly in the Premiership- and you think some who has played over 400 games at the top level is below average ? Nonsense

He isn’t world class or a top top player but any solid Premiership player who has played regularly in the Premier league is a very good footballer as well as playing a significant amount of times for international levels. 

I must also apologise for not remembering what you said last season 🙄 how could I forget what you said - as for clever comments who was it that called Liverpool “unbearable” 30 mins ago - maybe look in the mirror before pointing fingers.
		
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You are Liverpool and you are unbearable? I'd say the comment was factually correct 👌


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## Bdill93 (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Traditionally of course United are bigger, but over the last five years they haven't been any better than us. In the old days when they took Berbatov, Carrick, Sheringham off us they were fighting for the league and we were trying to get Europa. It hasn't been that way lately, and I don't think this one season being similar to that erases the last 5-6 years.

Don't get me wrong, I can definitely see him going there, I'll just be very disappointed. Whereas if he goes City I say fair play and good luck. He could win it all in a few years and come back to us when he's 33. 

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Im with you - kind of..

United cant guarantee trophies at this moment in time, only one team in England can and that is City. 

They've won the league cup 4 times in a row and 5 out of 6 years. 
They've won the league 3 out of the last 4 years
They go far in the FA cup too and won twice since 2010. 

Its obscene.


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## Bdill93 (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			He papered over the cracks for years

We also shipped out a lot of potential good players to keep him

First half his career he was good for us but past 3 seasons at least he been on a down wood spiral and been holding us back drastically .. but we just stuck with him

Soucek and rice .. what a revelation a fluid midfield can do
		
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So now you're saying because hes older hes rubbish? Of course he will get worse as he gets older - and should be replaced by younger, brighter stars - but why on earth you're slating a club legend I do not know.

I can bet he was one of the best players you had when you were in the championship - he stayed loyal when he could have left and stayed in the prem.. because he was good enough! Appreciate that, its not common in football.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			So now you're saying because hes older hes rubbish? Of course he will get worse as he gets older - and should be replaced by younger, brighter stars - but why on earth you're slating a club legend I do not know.

I can bet he was one of the best players you had when you were in the championship - he stayed loyal when he could have left and stayed in the prem.. because he was good enough! Appreciate that, its not common in football.
		
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He couldn't have left because nobody ever came in for him .

It's the instance on playing him when we had better options 

And the instance of shoe horning him in

Moyes has now phased him out and it's better 

And when rice went out he did s good job because he played with soucek rather than being shoe horned into the midfield to play in with rice and soucek getting in the way 

One of rice or soucek to do his running whilst he passes around the ball that's fine 

But him trying to run the midfield still and chase shadows doesn't work 

He isn't Gareth Barry


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Sorry, but if Kane does go to City - the league is over before a ball is kicked, Id expect them to push to beat the record point tally too! He is injury prone though!

Liverpool need a goal scoring striker (20+) to compete with a City team that includes Kane.

The gap between City and everyone else this season is big already, throw in the prems best striker and its absolutely outragous.
		
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The gap is don’t think is that big tbh - it’s been a strange old season and I think next year even if City get Kane the gap will be a lot smaller - obviously depending on injuries we will be a lot closer , Klopp won’t get in the striker but someone for the front three may well arrive depending on outgoings. I can next season being a belter providing teams don’t suffer big injury issues



Bdill93 said:



			Disagree - anyone good enough to lace their boots in that many top tier games, for multiple managers is an above average player. Not top 4/6 level but those are the elite.
		
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Unfortunately people when they rate players can’t see the middle area where a lot of Prem players sit -and that’s where the likes of Noble will be - he is a very good footballer - you don’t play that many games at the top level if you aren’t. Fans used to say the same about players like Henderson etc - some fans will never appreciate the players they have at the club.


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## pendodave (May 20, 2021)

Can't believe we're slandering Nobes when we should be mocking the Spuds.

As for the booing, abuse etc, I'm more inclined to give the Spurs fans a break. When you have owners/execs who are running the club badly, it's really easy to let the frustration and helplessness get the better of you. I would put west ham and arsenal in the same bucket as spurs in this respect. Fans whose owners aren't ***** should politely dismount from their high horses, vacate the moral high ground and just be pleased that they're not in the same position. Of course, thats just too hard an ask for some...


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If he goes to City I think he definitely will. You can see him getting 25-30 goals every season in that team.
		
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I can see him scoring more if he takes all the pens  as well.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Can't believe we're slandering Nobes when we should be mocking the Spuds.

As for the booing, abuse etc, I'm more inclined to give the Spurs fans a break. When you have owners/execs who are running the club badly, it's really easy to let the frustration and helplessness get the better of you. I would put west ham and arsenal in the same bucket as spurs in this respect. Fans whose owners aren't ***** should politely dismount from their high horses, vacate the moral high ground and just be pleased that they're not in the same position. Of course, thats just too hard an ask for some...
		
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We can't mock spurs until we get a final point.


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			We can't mock spurs until we get a final point.
		
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You won't need it, absolutely zero chance of us beating Leicester.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You won't need it, absolutely zero chance of us beating Leicester.
		
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I won't rule it out, Leicester are a good but odd team


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Can't believe we're slandering Nobes when we should be mocking the Spuds.

As for the booing, abuse etc, I'm more inclined to give the Spurs fans a break. When you have owners/execs who are running the club badly, it's really easy to let the frustration and helplessness get the better of you. I would put west ham and arsenal in the same bucket as spurs in this respect. Fans whose owners aren't ***** should politely dismount from their high horses, vacate the moral high ground and just be pleased that they're not in the same position. Of course, thats just too hard an ask for some...
		
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i guess it will down to whats classed as running the club badly ?

Are Spurs being run badly ? Brand new stadium , solid top 8 team , the same sort of level they have been for the past 20 years or more , they purchase players etc 

But if the fans believe the club should be top 4 challenging for titles and CL then they could see the club as being run badly 

They built the new stadium to help them increase the level of funds to spend - Covid won’t help that , they do seem to have shot themselves in the foot when it comes to sacking Pochettino 

It’s a tough battle at the top -there is the current top 4 - City , Liverpool, UTD and Chelsea - then there are a number of pretenders below battling to knock one or more of them out - Leicester, Spurs , Everton , Arsenal etc . It’s proper cut throat 

But it was the first game back in months , the team needs the points to get into Europe and it will need the fans to get behind the players - instead the booed , counter productive imo


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## DanFST (May 20, 2021)

pendodave said:



			As for the booing, abuse etc, I'm more inclined to give the Spurs fans a break. When you have owners/execs who are running the club badly, it's really easy to let the frustration and helplessness get the better of you. I would put west ham and arsenal in the same bucket as spurs in this respect. Fans whose owners aren't ***** should politely dismount from their high horses, vacate the moral high ground and just be pleased that they're not in the same position. Of course, thats just too hard an ask for some...
		
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100%. This isn't Arsene out and that ****. This is fans pissed off at owners who don't care. Same as us. All for it.


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## DanFST (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But it was the first game back in months , the team needs the points to get into Europe and it will need the fans to get behind the players - instead the booed , counter productive imo
		
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That's what you will never understand, results aren't everything.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			That's what you will never understand, results aren't everything.
		
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sorry but results are all that matters 

If Spurs were battling for the title or CL place then they wouldn’t be booing - they started booing last night as soon as the team started losing , they were very cheerful when Spurs went ahead 

Spurs fans expect the team to be doing better on the pitch , they expect the team to be better and getting better results


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## Bdill93 (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The gap is don’t think is that big tbh - it’s been a strange old season and I think next year even if City get Kane the gap will be a lot smaller - obviously depending on injuries we will be a lot closer , Klopp won’t get in the striker but someone for the front three may well arrive depending on outgoings. I can next season being a belter providing teams don’t suffer big injury issues



Unfortunately people when they rate players can’t see the middle area where a lot of Prem players sit -and that’s where the likes of Noble will be - he is a very good footballer - you don’t play that many games at the top level if you aren’t. Fans used to say the same about players like Henderson etc - some fans will never appreciate the players they have at the club.
		
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I certainly hope its a hot contest, but I do fear you have slightly red tinted glasses Phil  

A walkover league is not fun, and not entertaining, the beauty of the prem is that we dont have the same winners year in, year out - and I hope that continues! Last season and the year before when Liverpool and City were going back and forth, winning 30+ games in the process is what I want to see. 

And I think we can all agree - Its lovely to see United doing nothing


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## Bdill93 (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You won't need it, absolutely zero chance of us beating Leicester.
		
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I agree, Spurs have already started their summer hols!


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			sorry but results are all that matters

If Spurs were battling for the title or CL place then they wouldn’t be booing - they started booing last night as soon as the team started losing , they were very cheerful when Spurs went ahead

Spurs fans expect the team to be doing better on the pitch , they expect the team to be better and getting better results
		
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Have to say I agree. Maybe just me, but I wouldn't have been bothered about José's style of play if he actually got us top 4 this season, or a trophy. It's the fact that the football is poor AND we're losing that rankles.


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## DanFST (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			sorry but results are all that matters
		
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Are you currently/when did you give up your season ticket?


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Are you currently/when did you give up your season ticket?
		
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Why are you asking him that?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Are you currently/when did you give up your season ticket?
		
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Sorry I’m not sure what the relevance is 🤷‍♂️

I have never been lucky enough to have a season ticket in my name but would jump at the chance if it came about


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## DanFST (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Why are you asking him that?
		
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Because the only way I can understand the only results matter mentality, is if you've never been involved. I imagine you are the same?

When you go every week and plan weekends up and down the country, something changes. It's not about results. You see multiple generations doing as they have for years and you want that to continue. You want owners that respect that. The best season I ever had as a fan was our last championship season.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Because the only way I can understand the only results matter mentality, is if you've never been involved. I imagine you are the same?

When you go every week and plan weekends up and down the country, something changes. It's not about results. You see multiple generations doing as they have for years and you want that to continue. You want owners that respect that. The best season I ever had as a fan was our last championship season.
		
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Why was it your best season ? Was it because the team was winning ?

If it’s not about results what is it ?

What exactly should the owners respect - don’t you want your team to do the best it can on the pitch. It’s a sport - it’s a results based business.

And if it’s down to being “entertained” - there is no better entertainment than winning


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## Lord Tyrion (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Because the only way I can understand the only results matter mentality, is if you've never been involved. I imagine you are the same?

When you go every week and plan weekends up and down the country, something changes. It's not about results. You see multiple generations doing as they have for years and you want that to continue. You want owners that respect that. The best season I ever had as a fan was our last championship season.
		
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Are you suggesting that you acutally want to be entertained


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Are you suggesting that you acutally want to be entertained 

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That’s part of the problem for me.
A lot of PL teams set up to not lose and stay in the cash cow that is the PL.
Relegation is a disaster financially for clubs.
But it’s no coincidence that the best football is played by the champions .
Lots of fans are happy to win even if they play crap.
But playing well and winning is something else.

Wouldn’t say I have been entertained by some of the games I have seen this season on the TV.
But others have been fantastic to watch.
It’s been very inconsistent from all the teams even City early on!


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Because the only way I can understand the only results matter mentality, is if you've never been involved. I imagine you are the same?

When you go every week and plan weekends up and down the country, something changes. It's not about results. You see multiple generations doing as they have for years and you want that to continue. You want owners that respect that. The best season I ever had as a fan was our last championship season.
		
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I don't think it's relevant. Whether you're at the game or watching it on TV, you want to be entertained AND win. But if you can't have both I'd rather be winning. At the end of the day, the team could be playing lovely football but if they're losing more than they win, then the manager is getting sacked, so it's not sustainable is it? A new manager is going to come in and everything changes again. Only winning gives you sustainability and consistency.


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## Fade and Die (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			sorry but results are all that matters
		
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Proper Glory Hunter Armchair supporter comment that.....If you can’t see that there is so much more to supporting a football club than results then you will never understand what motivates people to support the other 83 teams that make up the pyramid.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Because the only way I can understand the only results matter mentality, is if you've never been involved. I imagine you are the same?

When you go every week and plan weekends up and down the country, something changes. It's not about results. You see multiple generations doing as they have for years and you want that to continue. You want owners that respect that. The best season I ever had as a fan was our last championship season.
		
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Spot on, this is bloke who tried to tell us we should of been happy with Fat Sam.🤷‍♂️


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## DanFST (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why was it your best season ? Was it because the team was winning ?

If it’s not about results what is it ?

What exactly should the owners respect - don’t you want your team to do the best it can on the pitch. It’s a sport - it’s a results based business.
		
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Because I got to go to grounds I've never been to before, I got to travel to a whole set of new places with a huge group of mates I met only through love of West Ham.

Respect the fans. Look at Cities owners.

- World class training facilities, helping set up for the future longevity of the club.
- World class stadium, with infrastructure to help fans.
- No need to be in the papers, just quietly go along with their business.

As regards to winning being the only way to be entertained. I went to Wales in 06 against your lot, we lost on pens. It was the most enjoyable match I've ever seen live. A win would have been incredible, but we still had a great weekend regardless. I booed when we beat hull 2-1 with a penalty that shouldn't have been given and an own goal.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Proper Glory Hunter Armchair supporter comment that.....If you can’t see that there is so much more to supporting a football club than results then you will never understand what motivates people to support the other 83 teams that make up the pyramid.
		
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Where did I say that results is the only reason to support a club 🤷‍♂️ 

Some are reading far too much into one comment


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Because I got to go to grounds I've never been to before, I got to travel to a whole set of new places with a huge group of mates I met only through love of West Ham.

Respect the fans. Look at Cities owners.

- World class training facilities, helping set up for the future longevity of the club.
- World class stadium, with infrastructure to help fans.
- No need to be in the papers, just quietly go along with their business.

As regards to winning being the only way to be entertained. I went to Wales in 06 against your lot, we lost on pens. It was the most enjoyable match I've ever seen live. A win would have been incredible, but we still had a great weekend regardless. I booed when we beat hull 2-1 with a penalty that shouldn't have been given and an own goal.
		
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What do you think has helped City owners provide that for their club - money 

If the club doesn’t have that level of money how do they get it ? By performing better on the pitch and getting the results to bring the financial rewards 

If you expect owners to act like owners who are able to use their interest payments to finance a club then you need owners with the same level of finance - so if they don’t have the finances to do that they aren’t “respecting the fans” 

Where West Ham fans not complaining because the owners weren’t spending enough on players etc ? 

Football is an ugly financial business and it became that way 30 plus years ago - we all want to see the best players we can get playing for us to get us the trophies and the wins 

If you boo your team when they win - well I guess that’s where toxic atmospheres come about from - I have no doubt that if West Ham were playing lovely football but losing and got relegated you would be demanding the manager out etc.

Are you not delighted right now that West Ham will be looking to get into Europe for the first time in a number of years ? The rewards that will bring ?


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## Fade and Die (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What do you think has helped City owners provide that for their club - money

If the club doesn’t have that level of money how do they get it ? By performing better on the pitch and getting the results to bring the financial rewards

If you expect owners to act like owners who are able to use their interest payments to finance a club then you need owners with the same level of finance - so if they don’t have the finances to do that they aren’t “respecting the fans”

Where West Ham fans not complaining because the owners weren’t spending enough on players etc ?

Football is an ugly financial business and it became that way 30 plus years ago - we all want to see the best players we can get playing for us to get us the trophies and the wins

*If you boo your team when they win* - well I guess that’s where toxic atmospheres come about from - I have no doubt that if West Ham were playing lovely football but losing and got relegated you would be demanding the manager out etc.

Are you not delighted right now that West Ham will be looking to get into Europe for the first time in a number of years ? The rewards that will bring ?
		
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Honestly you had to be there to understand it. It was the worst most soul destroying football I’ve ever seen in my life and I’ve been going to West Ham for 45 years.


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## DanFST (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			so if they don’t have the finances to do that they aren’t “respecting the fans”

Where West Ham fans not complaining because the owners weren’t spending enough on players etc ?

I have no doubt that if West Ham were playing lovely football but losing and got relegated you would be demanding the manager out etc.

Are you not delighted right now that West Ham will be looking to get into Europe for the first time in a number of years ? The rewards that will bring ?
		
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- We are the 18th richest club in the world. Owners have lent money at 4-6% Interest rates, whilst making £XX million from the sale of the Boleyn. Obviously that's going to cause a problem for fans. 

- We were, we've had another year of "record signings". However this season the net spend was 7 million, with an injury prone right back playing alone up front. 

- Incorrect, we got 30 something points under Zola and stayed up barely, most were really wanting him to succeed. 

- No I could care less, we've been in the Europa league before and lost to Romanias 2nd best team, because the owners valued premier league placing over everything else.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Honestly you had to be there to understand it. It was the worst most soul destroying football I’ve ever seen in my life and I’ve been going to West Ham for 45 years.
		
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26641431

How much was it also down to the run of results the club was having and the results in the season overall - lost 15 times at that stage , close to the relegation zone , a fear of dropping points again from a winning position ? 

If the team were higher up at that stage playing the same defensive football would the reaction be the same - I remember the Graham 1-0 years at Arsenal as they won title and trophies with very defensive football - would Arsenal fans take their current style and enjoyment over that ? 

Let’s be clear here - I’m not saying fans only support a team because of what they win or their results but from what I see 99.9% of the time fans get disgruntled and angry when their club isn’t doing well on the pitch or as well as they should be doing , yes fans will always want more and indeed the full package of wonderful flowing football along with winning , plus owners who care - but it’s fantasy world in modern football. City owners didn’t buy City because they care - they don’t pile money because they care imo - it’s all down the rewards whether that be status or financial rewards - I may have gone too cynical in regards football but imo it’s a consequence of the level of money in the sport now


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

Speaking of styles of football, did anyone see Big Sam's rant last night?? I thought it was hilarious. Michail Antonio said something innocuous about how Sam's teams are difficult, knocking it forward to the big man etc, and he took real umbrage with it, started saying how his forwards were both 5'9 and how his reputation is unfair.  It was class.

Here it is.


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## DanFST (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Speaking of styles of football, did anyone see Big Sam's rant last night?? I thought it was hilarious. Michail Antonio said something innocuous about how Sam's teams are difficult, knocking it forward to the big man etc, and he took real umbrage with it, started saying how his forwards were both 5'9 and how his reputation is unfair.  It was class.

Here it is.







Click to expand...

"I am a man that saves football clubs" 

West Brom relegated, boiler man graces championship grounds around the land.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			- We are the 18th richest club in the world. Owners have lent money at 4-6% Interest rates, whilst making £XX million from the sale of the Boleyn. Obviously that's going to cause a problem for fans.
		
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18th in terms of value - and it’s around £500mil - that’s what it would cost someone to buy the club , that doesn’t equate to bundles of money being able to be spent



			- We were, we've had another year of "record signings". However this season the net spend was 7 million, with an injury prone right back playing alone up front.
		
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And a lot of clubs are being financially tight right now due to the level of Covid losses -West Ham don’t have piles of money to be able to be spent on players , need to balance the books




			- Incorrect, we got 30 something points under Zola and stayed up barely, most were really wanting him to succeed.
		
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Of course you want him to succeed - because you want success and results, but in the end he was fired because of the results



			- No I could care less, we've been in the Europa league before and lost to Romanias 2nd best team, because the owners valued premier league placing over everything else.
		
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So you want the players to be signed , team to be built it yet but you don’t care about being Europe which will help you bring in the players 🤷‍♂️

Maybe I don’t understand or just don’t understand West Ham fans who seem confused at exactly what they want or what they want is not achievable 🤷‍♂️
or do you just want to be like Man City ?

Edit - happy to see it’s a good discussion without getting snidey 👍


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			"I am a man that saves football clubs"

West Brom relegated, boiler man graces championship grounds around the land.
		
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Yeah, I was honestly waiting for him to say something along the lines of "I keep clubs up but this time I wasn't good enough" but it never really came in so many words. Steadfastly unwilling to self-deprecate right to the end.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 20, 2021)

Has there ever been a manager with bigger chips on his shoulder? He seems to be a bloke who is unable to appreciate what he's done, enjoy it.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Speaking of styles of football, did anyone see Big Sam's rant last night?? I thought it was hilarious. Michail Antonio said something innocuous about how Sam's teams are difficult, knocking it forward to the big man etc, and he took real umbrage with it, started saying how his forwards were both 5'9 and how his reputation is unfair.  It was class.

Here it is.







Click to expand...

It was embarrassing- I’m amazed he isn’t staying to help West Brom get back into the Prem - but that would be too hard for him 

For some reason he then started onto a rant about Liverpool as well 🤷‍♂️

Happy to see him disappear from football - how he ever became an international manager I’ll never know


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## DanFST (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			18th in terms of value - and it’s around £500mil - that’s what it would cost someone to buy the club , that doesn’t equate to bundles of money being able to be spent


And a lot of clubs are being financially tight right now due to the level of Covid losses -West Ham don’t have piles of money to be able to be spent on players , need to balance the books



Of course you want him to succeed - because you want success and results, but in the end he was fired because of the results


So you want the players to be signed , team to be built it yet but you don’t care about being Europe which will help you bring in the players 🤷‍♂️

Maybe I don’t understand or just don’t understand West Ham fans who seem confused at exactly what they want or what they want is not achievable 🤷‍♂️
or do you just want to be like Man City ?
		
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It's actually revenue, hence why it's annoying. We aren't worth 500 mil, we don't own a stadium and we have 2 sub par training grounds in poorer areas of London. 

I'd love to be like man city, I know you are sceptical. But they don't need the money, it's a notch on their belt and a bragging tool. Everything they've touched has been for the long term benefit of the club and that old industrial area in Manchester. 

I hope you do get lucky and manage to get season ticket, I guarantee your outlook on football will change.


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was embarrassing- I’m amazed he isn’t staying to help West Brom get back into the Prem - but that would be too hard for him

For some reason he then started onto a rant about Liverpool as well 🤷‍♂️

*Happy to see him disappear from football - how he ever became an international manager I’ll never know*

Click to expand...

Well he became known for getting the best out of some poor, overhyped players, so he was perfect for England really.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			It's actually revenue, hence why it's annoying. We aren't worth 500 mil, we don't own a stadium and we have 2 sub par training grounds in poorer areas of London.

I'd love to be like man city, I know you are sceptical. But they don't need the money, it's a notch on their belt and a bragging tool. Everything they've touched has been for the long term benefit of the club and that old industrial area in Manchester.

*I hope you do get lucky and manage to get season ticket,* I guarantee your outlook on football will change.
		
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Applications for Season Ticket waiting list currently closed, current list has over 20,000 people on and some have waited over 15yrs to get the chance to purchase one.

One of the hardest Season Tickets to get in European Football.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well he became known for getting the best out of some poor, overhyped players, so he was perfect for England really.
		
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100% record as England Manager.😬


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## AmandaJR (May 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I can see him scoring more if he takes all the pens  as well.
		
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Oh the thought - a reliable penalty taker


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Oh the thought - a reliable penalty taker 

Click to expand...

He is .
My main point is he is one of the worlds best finishers.
But has been playing a bit deeper as well this year. Klopp likes that.
Put him in City or Liverpool’s team and he would walk the golden boot 
If both teams met the asking price I wonder where he would go?


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## fundy (May 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He is .
My main point is he is one of the worlds best finishers.
But has been playing a bit deeper as well this year. Klopp likes that.
Put him in City or Liverpool’s team and he would walk the golden boot 
If both teams met the asking price I wonder where he would go?
		
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think hes made it pretty clear already city is his destination of choice


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## Lord Tyrion (May 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Applications for Season Ticket waiting list currently closed, current list has over 20,000 people on and some have waited over 15yrs to get the chance to purchase one.

One of the hardest Season Tickets to get in European Football.
		
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I don't think they want season ticket holders so much now. They make much more selling packages to overseas fans. They come, spend money in the shop, repeat for every home game as it is a different person. This model makes getting a season ticket even more difficult although not for the reasons that impact most clubs.


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			think hes made it pretty clear already city is his destination of choice
		
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I didn’t see that!
Oh well good luck to him .
Just hope he gets a runners up medal next season.


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## AmandaJR (May 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			think hes made it pretty clear already city is his destination of choice
		
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Hope so - clearly thinking straight


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Hope so - clearly thinking straight 

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Yes . If so think we are going to need a top goalscorer to stay with you.


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## Patster1969 (May 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Because the only way I can understand the only results matter mentality, is if you've never been involved. I imagine you are the same?

When you go every week and plan weekends up and down the country, something changes. It's not about results. You see multiple generations doing as they have for years and you want that to continue. You want owners that respect that. The best season I ever had as a fan was our last championship season.
		
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Do agree with this in some respects.  Had a friend that I used to play footie with and he was a massive City fan, followed them all over the country (particularly when they went through the bad patch of multiple relegations) but when the Sheikh came in, he had no interest, got rid of his season ticket and started following his local team instead. Lost all of his enjoyment when they suddenly had more money than Bill Gates as it just wasn't the same for him anymore.
Someone has already said on this thread, so many teams play not to lose now instead of trying to win because the financial rewards for staying up are so big.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes . If so think we are going to need a top goalscorer to stay with you.
		
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No we don’t- the way the team plays doesn’t rely on one top goalscorer, we need to keep two of our top CB’s fit , get some more goals form the middle and maybe one more for the front three to rotate though to replace Origi. Surely you can see now that Klopps team set up doesn’t rely on that “top goalscorer”. And also look at the goal scoring charts over the last 3/4 years and see whose name appears in the top 2 each season


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No we don’t- the way the team plays doesn’t rely on one top goalscorer, we need to keep two of our top CB’s fit , get some more goals form the middle and maybe one more for the front three to rotate though to replace Origi. Surely you can see now that Klopps team set up doesn’t rely on that “top goalscorer”. And also look at the goal scoring charts over the last 3/4 years and see whose name appears in the top 2 each season
		
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Does he want to set up that way though or is it out of necessity due to the options he has? A consistent goalscoring striker never hurt anyone. If you took Firmino out and replaced him with someone who can do what he does and score goals (i.e. someone like Kane) then the team is immediately better.


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No we don’t- the way the team plays doesn’t rely on one top goalscorer, we need to keep two of our top CB’s fit , get some more goals form the middle and maybe one more for the front three to rotate though to replace Origi. Surely you can see now that Klopps team set up doesn’t rely on that “top goalscorer”. And also look at the goal scoring charts over the last 3/4 years and see whose name appears in the top 2 each season
		
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Sorry but I disagree.
Kane could play the role Bobby does he’s proved that for Spurs and England.
The difference is Kane finishes the chances he gets Firmino dosnt.

How many goals are we going to get from our midfield Gini,Fabinho,Tiago,Not noted for their goals.
Lots of ifs and buts.
We make shedloads of chances but don’t take them or we would be there with city. Imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Does he want to set up that way though or is it out of necessity due to the options he has? A consistent goalscoring striker never hurt anyone. If you took Firmino out and replaced him with someone who can do what he does and score goals (i.e. someone like Kane) then the team is immediately better.
		
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He plays that way because it brings out the best in all three of the front players and why he also brought in Jota in the summer , someone who can slot into any of the three spots. If the club do spend a significant amount of money on the front three it would be for someone like Mbappe or Sancho - not Kane 



clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry but I disagree.
Kane could play the role Bobby does he’s proved that for Spurs and England.
The difference is Kane finishes the chances he gets Firmino dosnt.

How many goals are we going to get from our midfield Gini,Fabinho,Tiago,Not noted for their goals.
Lots of ifs and buts.
We make shedloads of chances but don’t take them or we would be there with city. Imo.
		
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Of course you’re going to disagree - you have been banging the striker drum for three years now , if you can’t see that Klopp doesn’t see that way now you never will - we have matched City through the years 

And the reason why he wants to get Ox playing more is because he brings more goals from midfield - and why he is desperate for Keita to keep fit plus you can see the impact Thiago has by moving higher up the pitch when Fabinho is there.


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He plays that way because it brings out the best in all three of the front players and why he also brought in Jota in the summer , someone who can slot into any of the three spots. If the club do spend a significant amount of money on the front three it would be for someone like Mbappe or Sancho - not Kane



Of course you’re going to disagree - you have been banging the striker drum for three years now , if you can’t see that Klopp doesn’t see that way now you never will - we have matched City through the years

And the reason why he wants to get Ox playing more is because he brings more goals from midfield - and why he is desperate for Keita to keep fit plus you can see the impact Thiago has by moving higher up the pitch when Fabinho is there.
		
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The chances we create in every game that we miss is very frustrating.
The midfield just don’t score goals .
This forum is about opinions mine is we need a goalscorer you don’t think so that’s fine.
Klopp the manager and I get his formation but that dosnt mean I can’t disagree with it 

But Kane imo would score 30+ in the side.
Firmino 9 this season.
So 20 + goals a season would have us champions not City.
Ox is worse than Matip for injuries. 
That Fabinho hasn’t been there is Klopp biggest mistake imo he dismantled the midfield to cover the CBS when the young lads should have been in from the start leaving the middle at full strength.

Who would you have in the team given a choice Firmino or Kane playing the same role?


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2021)

There’s no way am reading through the last five pages of where Kane is going.But a few observations..

Aguero is leaving.
City need a striker.
Jesus is not Aguero.
City are linked with Haaland,Mbappe,Ings, Kane.
Kane says he is leaving. 
2 and 2 don’t always make 4.
City are miles ahead of everyone else.

Theres so much being said, a lot of what is hearsay, the latest being that Levy at Spuds has said “ we have taken our eye of the team whilst building the stadium”. Hmm didn’t that happen at Arsenal.
The bottom line Harry Kane is in danger of turning Alan Shearer in to the second best highest scoring striker that won hardly anything. One bought prem trophy at Blackburn. Shearer went to his home town club Newcastle. Kane has done it the other way round. As it stands Kane could be the highest scoring prem league player that has an empty trophy cabinet. How’s that right. It’s not as if you can say he stayed at Spurs for the money. 
So do all rds leave to City, 🤔. Ave enjoyed this season as a neutral. theres been some right shocking results. It’s been ace. But City streets ahead. Yeah only coz the also runs have been shocking. Not coz City have been brilliant. City money should not mask the rubbish football that has been played at times by Chelsea, Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal, Everton, and Spurs. Yet the also rans eg,Villa, West Ham, Everton, Leicester have all been knocking on the door or top four and again have fell away. That’s the football mentioned and we have not even got onto the point of how poor some of these clubs are run Arsenal, Spurs and Utd spring to mind not forgetting Newcastle’s long suffering fans.
Ave a feeling this transfer window is gonna be interesting


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He is .
My main point is he is one of the worlds best finishers.
But has been playing a bit deeper as well this year. Klopp likes that.
Put him in City or Liverpool’s team and he would walk the golden boot
If both teams met the asking price I wonder where he would go?
		
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With the injuries Liverpool have had this season, he would get better care at Liverpool 😖 they have the experience.


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## davemc1 (May 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s no way am reading through the last five pages of where Kane is going.But a few observations..

Aguero is leaving.
City need a striker.
Jesus is not Aguero.
City are linked with Haaland,Mbappe,Ings, Kane.
Kane says he is leaving.
2 and 2 don’t always make 4.
City are miles ahead of everyone else.

Theres so much being said, a lot of what is hearsay, the latest being that Levy at Spuds has said “ we have taken our eye of the team whilst building the stadium”. Hmm didn’t that happen at Arsenal.
The bottom line Harry Kane is in danger of turning Alan Shearer in to the second best highest scoring striker that won hardly anything. One bought prem trophy at Blackburn. Shearer went to his home town club Newcastle. Kane has done it the other way round. As it stands Kane could be the highest scoring prem league player that has an empty trophy cabinet. How’s that right. It’s not as if you can say he stayed at Spurs for the money.
So do all rds leave to City, 🤔. Ave enjoyed this season as a neutral. theres been some right shocking results. It’s been ace. But City streets ahead. Yeah only coz the also runs have been shocking. Not coz City have been brilliant. City money should not mask the rubbish football that has been played at times by Chelsea, Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal, Everton, and Spurs. Yet the also rans eg,Villa, West Ham, Everton, Leicester have all been knocking on the door or top four and again have fell away. That’s the football mentioned and we have not even got onto the point of how poor some of these clubs are run Arsenal, Spurs and Utd spring to mind not forgetting Newcastle’s long suffering fans.
Ave a feeling this transfer window is gonna be interesting
		
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‘One brought prem trophy’ oh the irony 😆


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			‘One brought prem trophy’ oh the irony 😆
		
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But you see that’s the point, I recognise the irony. it Has happened for years, but now it’s more of an issue coz it’s City.


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## ColchesterFC (May 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Ave enjoyed this season as a neutral. theres been some right shocking results. It’s been ace.
		
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Picking up on just this bit of your post I'd say that for the neutral it has been one of the most disappointing PL seasons ever. The title was pretty much wrapped up several weeks ago. The bottom three has been almost certain for a while, even if Fulham did try to make it interesting with a couple of results. To me the best seasons are the ones where you go in to the last day with the league title on the line or with 2/3 clubs needing a result to avoid relegation. This season has just been a bit "meh" with no real interest from middle of April onward.


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## davemc1 (May 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			But you see that’s the point, I recognise the irony. it Has happened for years, but now it’s more of an issue coz it’s City.
		
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Yeah you’re right it has gone on for years but I’m not seeing your point that it’s a bigger issue because it’s city? 

I think Chelsea caught more flack than you guys 🤷‍♂️ Rightly so as well 🤣🤣


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Picking up on just this bit of your post I'd say that for the neutral it has been one of the most disappointing PL seasons ever. The title was pretty much wrapped up several weeks ago. The bottom three has been almost certain for a while, even if Fulham did try to make it interesting with a couple of results. To me the best seasons are the ones where you go in to the last day with the league title on the line or with 2/3 clubs needing a result to avoid relegation. This season has just been a bit "meh" with no real interest from middle of April onward.
		
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I would love someone to sum up this season, looking at ( in no order) Leicester,Chelsea, villa, Everton, west ham,Spurs, Liverpool all looked like they would finish top four. Liverpool looked like they could  win back to back titles, then looked like they would not get European football,Now look like getting top four. Totally agree re last day title races but it’s only nice as a non neutral if you win it.

Ave just read this and no one has said owt. For all City’s attacking prowess a defender wins it and over 50% of the vote goes to Citys players.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57183550


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s no way am reading through the last five pages of where Kane is going.But a few observations..

Aguero is leaving.
City need a striker.
Jesus is not Aguero.
City are linked with Haaland,Mbappe,Ings, Kane.
Kane says he is leaving.
2 and 2 don’t always make 4.
City are miles ahead of everyone else.

Theres so much being said, a lot of what is hearsay, the latest being that Levy at Spuds has said “ we have taken our eye of the team whilst building the stadium”. Hmm didn’t that happen at Arsenal.
The bottom line Harry Kane is in danger of turning Alan Shearer in to the second best highest scoring striker that won hardly anything. One bought prem trophy at Blackburn. Shearer went to his home town club Newcastle. Kane has done it the other way round. *As it stands Kane could be the highest scoring prem league player that has an empty trophy cabinet. How’s that right. It’s not as if you can say he stayed at Spurs for the money.*
So do all rds leave to City, 🤔. Ave enjoyed this season as a neutral. theres been some right shocking results. It’s been ace. But City streets ahead. Yeah only coz the also runs have been shocking. Not coz City have been brilliant. City money should not mask the rubbish football that has been played at times by Chelsea, Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal, Everton, and Spurs. Yet the also rans eg,Villa, West Ham, Everton, Leicester have all been knocking on the door or top four and again have fell away. That’s the football mentioned and we have not even got onto the point of how poor some of these clubs are run Arsenal, Spurs and Utd spring to mind not forgetting Newcastle’s long suffering fans.
Ave a feeling this transfer window is gonna be interesting
		
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Re the bit in bold, I don’t know if you’re being ironic or not.🤷‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s no way am reading through the last five pages of where Kane is going.But a few observations..

Aguero is leaving.
City need a striker.
Jesus is not Aguero.
City are linked with Haaland,Mbappe,Ings, Kane.
Kane says he is leaving.
2 and 2 don’t always make 4.
City are miles ahead of everyone else.

Theres so much being said, a lot of what is hearsay, the latest being that Levy at Spuds has said “ we have taken our eye of the team whilst building the stadium”. Hmm didn’t that happen at Arsenal.
The bottom line Harry Kane is in danger of turning Alan Shearer in to the second best highest scoring striker that won hardly anything. One bought prem trophy at Blackburn. Shearer went to his home town club Newcastle. Kane has done it the other way round. As it stands Kane could be the highest scoring prem league player that has an empty trophy cabinet. How’s that right. It’s not as if you can say he stayed at Spurs for the money.
So do all rds leave to City, 🤔. Ave enjoyed this season as a neutral. theres been some right shocking results. It’s been ace. But City streets ahead. Yeah only coz the also runs have been shocking. Not coz City have been brilliant. City money should not mask the rubbish football that has been played at times by Chelsea, Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal, Everton, and Spurs. Yet the also rans eg,Villa, West Ham, Everton, Leicester have all been knocking on the door or top four and again have fell away. That’s the football mentioned and we have not even got onto the point of how poor some of these clubs are run Arsenal, Spurs and Utd spring to mind not forgetting Newcastle’s long suffering fans.
Ave a feeling this transfer window is gonna be interesting
		
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Your streak of wins mid season won you the title.
But some of the wins were not exactly great to watch.
But the table dosnt lie and City are champions.
As for Dias that was your main problem and Pep has sorted it so he deserves the accolade.
Thought it was Foden personally .


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s no way am reading through the last five pages of where Kane is going.But a few observations..

Aguero is leaving.
City need a striker.
Jesus is not Aguero.
City are linked with Haaland,Mbappe,Ings, Kane.
Kane says he is leaving.
2 and 2 don’t always make 4.
City are miles ahead of everyone else.

Theres so much being said, a lot of what is hearsay, the latest being that Levy at Spuds has said “ we have taken our eye of the team whilst building the stadium”. Hmm didn’t that happen at Arsenal.
The bottom line Harry Kane is in danger of turning Alan Shearer in to the second best highest scoring striker that won hardly anything. One bought prem trophy at Blackburn. Shearer went to his home town club Newcastle. Kane has done it the other way round. As it stands Kane could be the highest scoring prem league player that has an empty trophy cabinet. How’s that right. It’s not as if you can say he stayed at Spurs for the money.
So do all rds leave to City, 🤔. Ave enjoyed this season as a neutral. theres been some right shocking results. It’s been ace. But City streets ahead. Yeah only coz the also runs have been shocking. Not coz City have been brilliant. City money should not mask the rubbish football that has been played at times by Chelsea, Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal, Everton, and Spurs. Yet the also rans eg,Villa, West Ham, Everton, Leicester have all been knocking on the door or top four and again have fell away. That’s the football mentioned and we have not even got onto the point of how poor some of these clubs are run Arsenal, Spurs and Utd spring to mind not forgetting Newcastle’s long suffering fans.
Ave a feeling this transfer window is gonna be interesting
		
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Is there some smileys missing from the post ? 🤷‍♂️

One bought trophy ? If Blackburn’s Prem a bought trophy isn’t any trophy won by City bought ?🤷‍♂️

And talking about enjoying the season as a neutral ? You aren’t a neutral

And Kane at Spurs has been very well financially rewarded for his stay at Spurs -

“also rans” - I guess that’s not the phrase you wanted to use as it comes out as arrogance towards all the other teams 

This transfer window should be quite low because of the money lost in the pandemic - with many clubs losing £80mil plus its going to be only interesting how clubs will balance the books , if Kane is bought for £100mil then some balancing will need to be done or clever financially bookkeeping again 

Overall this season has been flat as a pancake - the FA Cup final was the one bit of drama , City with their squad were able to cope better than anyone with the make up of the season but they didn’t blow teams away like Liverpool and City have done in the previous seasons.


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Re the bit in bold, I don’t know if you’re being ironic or not.🤷‍♂️
		
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Ave a feeling that were he to move, he may be on a few quid more.


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## Liverbirdie (May 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			sorry but results are all that matters

If Spurs were battling for the title or CL place then they wouldn’t be booing - they started booing last night as soon as the team started losing , they were very cheerful when Spurs went ahead

Spurs fans expect the team to be doing better on the pitch , they expect the team to be better and getting better results
		
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I think the Kane going story had put a massive downer on the club, added to lack of investment in the squad at a crucial time a few years ago and the first time in eons that they could let the power brokers know their feelings, it was a toxic mix. What was going on on the pitch made a difference, but it wasnt the whole story.

If Newcastle fans campaign against Ashley, even if they're 3 up, you have to look at the bigger picture, not just that day's result.


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## fundy (May 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think the Kane going story had put a massive downer on the club, added to lack of investment in the squad at a crucial time a few years ago and the first time in eons that they could let the power brokers know their feelings, it was a toxic mix. What was going on on the pitch made a difference, but it wasnt the whole story.

If Newcastle fans campaign against Ashley, even if they're 3 up, you have to look at the bigger picture, not just that day's result.
		
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yeah not sure it will be all sweetness and light at Arsenal Sunday, actually hope it isnt tbh


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## Liverbirdie (May 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s no way am reading through the last five pages of where Kane is going.But a few observations..

Aguero is leaving.
City need a striker.
Jesus is not Aguero.
City are linked with Haaland,Mbappe,Ings, Kane.
Kane says he is leaving.
2 and 2 don’t always make 4.
City are miles ahead of everyone else.

Theres so much being said, a lot of what is hearsay, the latest being that Levy at Spuds has said “ we have taken our eye of the team whilst building the stadium”. Hmm didn’t that happen at Arsenal.
The bottom line Harry Kane is in danger of turning Alan Shearer in to the second best highest scoring striker that won hardly anything. One bought prem trophy at Blackburn. Shearer went to his home town club Newcastle. Kane has done it the other way round. As it stands Kane could be the highest scoring prem league player that has an empty trophy cabinet. How’s that right. It’s not as if you can say he stayed at Spurs for the money.
So do all rds leave to City, 🤔. Ave enjoyed this season as a neutral. theres been some right shocking results. It’s been ace. But City streets ahead. Yeah only coz the also runs have been shocking. Not coz City have been brilliant. City money should not mask the rubbish football that has been played at times by Chelsea, Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal, Everton, and Spurs. Yet the also rans eg,Villa, West Ham, Everton, Leicester have all been knocking on the door or top four and again have fell away. That’s the football mentioned and we have not even got onto the point of how poor some of these clubs are run Arsenal, Spurs and Utd spring to mind not forgetting Newcastle’s long suffering fans.
Ave a feeling this transfer window is gonna be interesting
		
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You should be called Toshy, not tashy.

A squad of 25+ 50 million plus players can mask everything. City also played some rubbish at the beginning of the season, as well, but a massive squad of top class players supplied by sports washing countries triumphs over all, most of the time, thankfully not all.


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## Liverbirdie (May 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			yeah not sure it will be all sweetness and light at Arsenal Sunday, actually hope it isnt tbh
		
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Yep, the matchgoers do look a bit more to the future of the club,as they spend a lot of their hard earned on it, so if you see a massive lack of investment in the club or squad and you start thinking "where's my money going, and will I have to put up with this rubbish for 4-5 years", you are going to react and demand more, or change.


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## fundy (May 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, the matchgoers do look a bit more to the future of the club,as they spend a lot of their hard earned on it, so if you see a massive lack of investment in the club or squad and you start thinking "where's my money going, and will I have to put up with this rubbish for 4-5 years", you are going to react and demand more, or change.
		
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Thats why I stopped going, did it for many years, home and away and Europe but became clear football was becoming far too much about money, tv and not the "fans". Put that into context I went to Highbury 300+ times, have never been to the Emirates! Decided enough was enough and never gone back


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## Liverbirdie (May 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			Thats why I stopped going, did it for many years, home and away and Europe but became clear football was becoming far too much about money, tv and not the "fans". Put that into context I went to Highbury 300+ times, have never been to the Emirates! Decided enough was enough and never gone back
		
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Even though I still do the homes, I know where you're coming from. It's not the game I fell in love with as a kid.

Loved Highbury, btw.

Proper stadium, 2 big ends, good atmosphere, been in there when it was still 60,000, and also went there for the full members cup (was it?) game, where there were decidedly a lot less in.

I somehow managed to bunk in past the commissionaires in the main stand entrance, went past the Herbert Chapman bust, up the stairs then didnt know where to go, so bunked back out into the street as had bought a ticket also. I still havent been the emirates yet though, either.


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## fundy (May 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Even though I still do the homes, I know where you're coming from. It's not the game I fell in love with as a kid.

Loved Highbury, btw. 

Proper stadium, 2 big ends, good atmosphere, been in there when it was still 60,000, and also went there for the full members cup (was it) game, where there were decidedly a lot less.

I somehow managed to bunk in past the commissionaires in the main stand entrance, went past the Herbert Chapman bust, up the stairs then didnt know where to go, so bunked back out into the street as had bought a ticket also. I still havent been the emirates yet though, either.

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55,000 for a league cup semi final against spurs and 15,000 still outside in the mid 80s, they were the days (some will tell me i was a decade or two too late)  i guess we all age and are "from a generation" but give me the old school grounds rather than the new stadia in the main. maine road, roker park, ayresome park, baseball ground, upton park etc, a bit of character rather than the soulless concrete mega structures you get now. if i could go to any game currently Id probably do everton away to make some noise in the creaking wooden away end


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## Liverbirdie (May 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			55,000 for a league cup semi final against spurs and 15,000 still outside in the mid 80s, they were the days (some will tell me i was a decade or two too late)  i guess we all age and are "from a generation" but give me the old school grounds rather than the new stadia in the main. maine road, roker park, ayresome park, baseball ground, upton park etc, a bit of character rather than the soulless concrete mega structures you get now. if i could go to any game currently Id probably do everton away to make some noise in the creaking wooden away end 

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Amen to that.

No matter our rivalry, Goodison is a cracking away match when the home crowd are up for it (obviously against us they always are), and when they score the noise is amazing.
With 3 of the stands having close, low overhangs it creates a right racket, and think they used a special amplifying wood in the construction (I may have made that last bit up).

Derby was a cracking old stand that they used to give you two tiers of, and always liked Villa, Coventry as an away match. I only done London, Norwich, Ipswich, Soton, Pompey a few times in the 80's or 90's but once we were back in Europe kept my money for European games, but went to the NW, Midlands, NE and any new grounds all the time. I keep saying I should go and watch the likes of rochdale, macclesfield and any other grounds I havent been to, only need about 22-24 to do "a 92". I've did the odd one over the years if away on business or on hols so have gone to Exeter city vs Ipswich in an early league cup round with the missus, to get another ground in, etc.

Upton park when Ince got a hat-trick was loud and lively, Millwall twice at the old den, winning the league at Chelsea in 86 etc, brilliant memories over the years, but also loved going to a Walsall on a cold December night and everything inbetween.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2021)

Just an observation about the Kane / Shearer trophy analogy. Dig up any interview you like from history or recent times, Shearer has no regrets. Not one. He doesn't say it through gritted teeth, he means it. He would have liked to have won more trophies but I have no doubt that he wouldn't swap his life if he had it again. Trophies aren't everything.


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## pauljames87 (May 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just an observation about the Kane / Shearer trophy analogy. Dig up any interview you like from history or recent times, Shearer has no regrets. Not one. He doesn't say it through gritted teeth, he means it. He would have liked to have won more trophies but I have no doubt that he wouldn't swap his life if he had it again. Trophies aren't everything.
		
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Shearer went to play for his boyhood club tho 

Whilst kane loves spurs now they aren't his boyhood club

Plus how easy is it to say when you win a premier League then do it


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## SaintHacker (May 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Amen to that.

No matter our rivalry, Goodison is a cracking away match when the home crowd are up for it (obviously against us they always are), and when they score the noise is amazing.
With 3 of the stands having close, low overhangs it creates a right racket, and think they used a special amplifying wood in the construction (I may have made that last bit up).

Derby was a cracking old stand that they used to give you two tiers of, and always liked Villa, Coventry as an away match. I only done London, Norwich, Ipswich, Soton, Pompey a few times in the 80's or 90's but once we were back in Europe kept my money for European games, but went to the NW, Midlands, NE and any new grounds all the time. I keep saying I should go and watch the likes of rochdale, macclesfield and any other grounds I havent been to, only need about 22-24 to do "a 92". I've did the odd one over the years if away on business or on hols so have gone to Exeter city vs Ipswich in an early league cup round with the missus, to get another ground in, etc.

Upton park when Ince got a hat-trick was loud and lively, Millwall twice at the old den, winning the league at Chelsea in 86 etc, brilliant memories over the years, but also loved going to a Walsall on a cold December night and everything inbetween.
		
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Never did the old Den but been to thenew a couple of times, nowhere near as scary as they like to make it out to be, although the Millwall roar is impressive when they get it going. Goodison is a cracking away. St James Park is another decent day out, although take some binos and a warm coat! Pompey was a bit meh (until we scored, then it was proper limbs), Ninian Park was probably the most intimidated I've been at a football match, the new ground isn't a patch on it


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Shearer went to play for his boyhood club tho

Whilst kane loves spurs now they aren't his boyhood club

Plus how easy is it to say when you win a premier League then do it
		
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Kane won’t win the PL if he moves abroad.


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## Fade and Die (May 21, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Never did the old Den but been to thenew a couple of times, nowhere near as scary as they like to make it out to be, although the Millwall roar is impressive when they get it going. Goodison is a cracking away. St James Park is another decent day out, although take some binos and a warm coat! Pompey was a bit meh (until we scored, then it was proper limbs), Ninian Park was probably the most intimidated I've been at a football match, the new ground isn't a patch on it
		
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I always enjoyed the trips to the midlands, The Hawthorns, St Andrew’s, Molineux (even though 2 sides of the ground were closed!) Always a good day out, grounds I really didn’t like with shallow terracing and no roof were Swindon, Barnsley (never been so cold) Oldham and Chelsea. You could sing till you were hoarse and never get an atmosphere going!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Shearer went to play for his boyhood club tho

Whilst kane loves spurs now they aren't his boyhood club

Plus how easy is it to say when you win a premier League then do it
		
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Utd came in for Shearer when he went to Newcastle so he could have added massively to his cabinet. My point is that players can be happy at a club when looking at the bigger picture, not just silverware. Silverware isn't compulsory for happiness. Lack of silverware doesn't equal lack of ambition.


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## pauljames87 (May 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Kane won’t win the PL if he moves abroad.
		
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I very much doubt he will go abroad 

Madrid and Barca are broke and won't be being bailed out by the banks anytime soon

And he clearly wants the all time premier League goal record 

I can see him going United, or city


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I very much doubt he will go abroad

Madrid and Barca are broke and won't be being bailed out by the banks anytime soon

And he clearly wants the all time premier League goal record

I can see him going United, or city
		
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Madrid favourites to sign Mbappe, Poch at PSG and Kane could be seen as the replacement.

Why does he need to go City or United if he “clearly” wants the all time PL goal record.

Plus, let’s not forget he still has 3 yrs left on his current contract and then there’s Levy.

I’m not sure it’s as obvious as you believe.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2021)

Has anyone ever managed to squeeze Levy in a deal? Unless there is a break clause in Kane's contract he wont be leaving for anything other than a huge fee or a number of top players in return. However he goes, if he goes, it will only because Levy is happy with the deal, not Kane.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 21, 2021)

Only have to look at the Bale , Berbatov and Modric transfers to see that a player only leaves Spurs on Levys terms not the player 

If Kane does want to go then it won’t be easy - he has a long contract left at a lot of wages , a club is going to have to pay way over £100mil for him and I’m not sure if even City or UTD will pay that much maybe PSG 

Kane may have to put transfer requests in etc but there is a fair chance that Kane will still be playing for Spurs come the start of next season.


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Plus, let’s not forget he still has 3 yrs left on his current contract and then there’s Levy.

I’m not sure it’s as obvious as you believe.
		
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This is what I've been thinking about to be honest. He signed a deal until 2024 - so realistically you have to sell him at the end of 22/23 as he'll only have one year left then. At that point he'll be 29/30, but given what a machine he is he'll still have a solid three years in him anyway to join someone who wins things. Levy won't sell him this summer unless someone comes in with a really big offer, I'm thinking well over £100m, maybe even 120. If that doesn't happen I can see him playing one more season with the agreement with Levy that if there's no progress, we have to listen to reasonable offers at the end of 21/22. (To get maximum value as well, because if we wait until he's got one year to go it'll be more of a cut price deal.) Kane signed that deal until 2024 after all, which makes me think he was initially happy to stay until he's 29-ish before considering his options. Maybe this season being so bad has just given him something to think about a year earlier that's all.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			This is what I've been thinking about to be honest. He signed a deal until 2024 - so realistically you have to sell him at the end of 22/23 as he'll only have one year left then. At that point he'll be 29/30, but given what a machine he is he'll still have a solid three years in him anyway to join someone who wins things. Levy won't sell him this summer unless someone comes in with a really big offer, I'm thinking well over £100m, maybe even 120. If that doesn't happen I can see him playing one more season with the agreement with Levy that if there's no progress, we have to listen to reasonable offers at the end of 21/22. (To get maximum value as well, because if we wait until he's got one year to go it'll be more of a cut price deal.) Kane signed that deal until 2024 after all, which makes me think he was initially happy to stay until he's 29-ish before considering his options. Maybe this season being so bad has just given him something to think about a year earlier that's all.
		
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Absolutely, add in the press reports this week about Levy admitting mistakes, he could promise Kane a new manager with plenty of money to spend etc.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Kane may have to put transfer requests in etc but there is a fair chance that Kane will still be playing for Spurs come the start of next season.
		
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When was the last time we saw a player put in an official transfer request? I'm part asking this question to myself because it just doesn't happen now.

They don't do it because that impacts their loyalty bonus . Nothing to do with money, it never is


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## Tashyboy (May 21, 2021)

A couple of things surprise me with the Kane scenario. He has gone public with a desire to leave. A couple of the spuds fans have said they can understand him wanting to leave.  But making it so public, hmmm.
Secondly, Ori mentions that Levy could have an agreement with Kane at the end of next season. Listening to Kane, he says he already has a gentleman’s agreement with Levy. Hmmmm.Wonder what that is. The whole situation sounds a bit like the Messi wrangles of last season


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When was the last time we saw a player put in an official transfer request? I'm part asking this question to myself because it just doesn't happen now.

They don't do it because that impacts their loyalty bonus . Nothing to do with money, it never is 

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I think it only happens when the player or their agent knows there is another club 100% willing to do the deal and they've already agreed contract terms on the sly.


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## Beezerk (May 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Absolutely, add in the press reports this week about Levy admitting mistakes, he could promise Kane a new manager with plenty of money to spend etc.
		
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He can't promise him a trophy though which a move to City would probably guarantee.


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			A couple of things surprise me with the Kane scenario. *He has gone public with a desire to leave.* A couple of the spuds fans have said they can understand him wanting to leave.  But making it so public, hmmm.
Secondly, Ori mentions that Levy could have an agreement with Kane at the end of next season. Listening to Kane, he says he already has a gentleman’s agreement with Levy. Hmmmm.Wonder what that is. The whole situation sounds a bit like the Messi wrangles of last season
		
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I'm not 100% sure he has done that. Alastair Gold reckons he hasn't said it in so many words, and it's not typically his style either. 

If there is an 'agreement', I feel pretty certain it's not going to be "we'll sell you for a bargain price when you've got three years left on your contract".


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He can't promise him a trophy though which a move to City would probably guarantee.
		
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But that’s only if Kane could stay in England. I don’t believe in the “snippett” released he said English Trophy.🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (May 21, 2021)

Lifted from another site

I can’t believe Levy doesn’t get more stick from Spurs fans.

While some admire his negotiation tactics, his underhanded style has alienated Spurs from quite a few clubs. Not so much recently, but not so long ago unsettling players and then paying knock down prices. Short term wins, but it makes long term enemies. I know some Saints fans and they’ll never forgive the Pochetino, Wanyama, Alderwiereld deals.

Then the Pochetino dismissal was a shocker. Not investing for two or three transfer windows with a manager that took them to not only finals, but playing some of the most attractive football in the league. No investment, followed by sacking him, and it was mostly about Levy feeling threatened and wanting to be the main man. Get out the hero manager, no matter what the cost to the club.

Who does he bring in to replace him? The dourest manager ever, who Real Madrid wanted rid of when they won the league, and Man U sacked for similar reasons... awful football, huge ego, divisive personality. And only then does Levy spend huge money trying to win fans over, on a vanity project like Bale. Where was that money for Poch? Why did he bring that manager? ... apparently to win trophies...

Then the ESL... enough said.

Then he sacks Moanio just before the League cup final. The “winner” of a manager, appointed to win a trophy, sacked just before a final... why? Then he appoints a bloke who is clearly way out of his depth, before crucial games for top 7 and European qualification.

How can he now be surprised that Kane wants to leave? No one outside the club is and most ex Spurs players seem to be coming out saying they are unsurprised.


Spot on tbh


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## Liverbirdie (May 21, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Never did the old Den but been to thenew a couple of times, nowhere near as scary as they like to make it out to be, although the Millwall roar is impressive when they get it going. Goodison is a cracking away. St James Park is another decent day out, although take some binos and a warm coat! Pompey was a bit meh (until we scored, then it was proper limbs), Ninian Park was probably the most intimidated I've been at a football match, the new ground isn't a patch on it
		
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Yep, its heart attack hill getting up them stairs at the toon.

Barnsley was one of my first 7 or 8 away games as a kid on the old footy specials. I was about 14 and went on the rattler in the FA cup and the whole town was up for it, scaling 20 foot walls somehow to get into the train station. Leeds can be intimidating, but once you've been to Galatasaray and Juventus away as a Liverpool fan, all pale into significance.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



*Yep, its heart attack hill getting up them stairs at the toon.*

Barnsley was one of my first 7 or 8 away games as a kid on the old footy specials. I was about 14 and went on the rattler in the FA cup and the whole town was up for it, scaling 20 foot walls somehow to get into the train station. Leeds can be intimidating, but once you've been to Galatasaray and Juventus away as a Liverpool fan, all pale into significance.
		
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It's surprising how many Liverpool fans have heart issues at that game. Obviously their 'carer' also needs to take the lift with them


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## Liverbirdie (May 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's surprising how many Liverpool fans have heart issues at that game. Obviously their 'carer' also needs to take the lift with them 

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I was the opposite, one year. One of my mates is on kidney dialysis, so I reluctantly accompanied him up in the lift. Ooooo I must have argued for 4 seconds, at least.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I was the opposite, one year. One of my mates is on kidney dialysis, so I reluctantly accompanied him up in the lift. Ooooo I must have argued for 4 seconds, at least. 

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What I find bizarre is that rickety Goodison has escalators for the higher sections but the far newer stands at St James have nothing. Level 7 from memory to get to the top. Not fun.


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2021)

https://www.football.london/tottenh...plCp8-9ZK5HtPeudaskxjT3ZRv7bUAagq-2xTA9UQp15w

As I suspected, Kane says he doesn't want to go abroad. Wants to stay in England and chase Shearer's record.


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## PieMan (May 21, 2021)

The Kane situation will only be resolved once everyone knows what's happening with Haaland (and possibly Lewandowski and Mbappe). 

Clearly Real, Barca, City, United and Chelsea all want Haaland, but questionable whether Real and Barca can afford him (same with Mbappe). 

So if Haaland ends up at City, and Kane only wants to stay in England, then most likely destination is United given Levy won't want to do business with Chelsea (unless we throw 3 or 4 players at Spurs as well as a fee).

But is Kane guarranteed success at United? IMHO United are still 2 or 3 players - even with Kane - short of a side to really challenge City and Liverpool (unfortunately expecting them to improve next season.....😭😭) for the title. 

If City is Kane's preferred destination then the only way I can see it working is if Lewandowski leaves Bayern, with Haaland replacing him.

Going to be an interesting summer transfer window!


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## fundy (May 21, 2021)

Nuno leaving Wolves

off to spurs?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



https://www.football.london/tottenh...plCp8-9ZK5HtPeudaskxjT3ZRv7bUAagq-2xTA9UQp15w

As I suspected, Kane says he doesn't want to go abroad. Wants to stay in England and chase Shearer's record.
		
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Better now the whole interview has been released, it seems breaking Shearer’s and Rooney’s records is more important than winning a trophy and he could do both as a Spurs player.


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Better now the whole interview has been released, it seems breaking Shearer’s and Rooney’s records is more important than winning a trophy and he could do both as a Spurs player.
		
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I agree. Haven't watch the video with Neville yet (will do later), but reading that transcript there, I didn't get any feeling he was pushing for a move right now. More saying it's last chance saloon in a way. i.e. if Levy doesn't deliver on bringing in a good manager and some quality players, then he may be off in a year or two's time.


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## Piece (May 21, 2021)

Nuno to Spurs then??


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## PieMan (May 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I agree. Haven't watch the video with Neville yet (will do later), but reading that transcript there, I didn't get any feeling he was pushing for a move right now. More saying it's last chance saloon in a way. i.e. if Levy doesn't deliver on bringing in a good manager and some quality players, then he may be off in a year or two's time.
		
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Interesting one though isn't it - in a year or 2s time he's 29 and whilst technically still in his prime, his options could be very limited, especially as City, United, Chelsea would probably be looking at younger alternatives (as such surprised Chelsea being linked with Lewandowski now).

Levy is a very astute businessman though and he will be very aware of current market value against contract costs. And does he gamble with selling before Euro's or after given risk of injury? Clearly if Kane has an exceptional tournament and gets through it unscathed then I can see him starting the new season at a new club.


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Interesting one though isn't it - in a year or 2s time he's 29 and whilst technically still in his prime, his options could be very limited, especially as City, United, Chelsea would probably be looking at younger alternatives (as such surprised Chelsea being linked with Lewandowski now).

Levy is a very astute businessman though and he will be very aware of current market value against contract costs. And does he gamble with selling before Euro's or after given risk of injury? Clearly if Kane has an exceptional tournament and gets through it unscathed then I can see him starting the new season at a new club.
		
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Definitely wouldn't stop United, they've signed the likes of Cavani and Zlatan in recent years. Ok they didn't pay for them, but their success suggests that a good striker still has years in him at 29. I think it used to be thought that maybe by 31-ish players would be on their last legs, but nowadays it's more like 34-35. In the interview I think Kane said himself that he sees himself now as only halfway through his career, wants to emulate Ronaldo and Messi and still be at the top by 34-35. 



Piece said:



			Nuno to Spurs then??
		
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That's certainly seems a logical step doesn't it? I wouldn't mind him coming in. Would be similar to when we got Poch from Southampton I think. Plus we might actually see Doherty play well at last! And it'd be really really nice if he brought Coady with him as well.


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## ColchesterFC (May 21, 2021)

PieMan said:



			The Kane situation will only be resolved once everyone knows what's happening with Haaland (and possibly Lewandowski and Mbappe).

Clearly Real, Barca, City, United and Chelsea all want Haaland, but questionable whether Real and Barca can afford him (same with Mbappe).

If City is Kane's preferred destination then the only way I can see it working is if Lewandowski leaves Bayern, with Haaland replacing him.

Going to be an interesting summer transfer window!
		
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Could Bayern afford the transfer fee and wages associated with getting Haaland? £160m + transfer fee and probably £15-20m a season in wages adds up to a lot of money. I'm not sure they've got that sort of money for one player.

I think if Kane goes to City, United have to go and get Haaland to have any chance of competing. Admittedly they'd probably need a couple of others as well.

As a neutral (albeit one that doesn't like Liverpool) in an ideal world I'd like to see the above two transfers go through and for Mbappe to join Liverpool. Would make the PL very interesting to watch next season.


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## Bazzatron (May 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Definitely wouldn't stop United, they've signed the likes of Cavani and Zlatan in recent years. Ok they didn't pay for them, but their success suggests that a good striker still has years in him at 29. I think it used to be thought that maybe by 31-ish players would be on their last legs, but nowadays it's more like 34-35. In the interview I think Kane said himself that he sees himself now as only halfway through his career, wants to emulate Ronaldo and Messi and still be at the top by 34-35.


That's certainly seems a logical step doesn't it? I wouldn't mind him coming in. Would be similar to when we got Poch from Southampton I think. Plus we might actually see Doherty play well at last! And it'd be really really nice if he brought Coady with him as well.
		
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You haven't seen Coady play much have you?


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			You haven't seen Coady play much have you?
		
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Errr have you seen any of our defenders lately??


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## Bazzatron (May 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Errr have you seen any of our defenders lately??
		
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I'd be amazed if any have been worse than Coady, especially in a two.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			I'd be amazed if any have been worse than Coady, especially in a two.
		
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He has been a great manager for you. Well backed but he has delivered. Any thoughts or rumours regarding a replacement?

Not often a club has a managers role up for grabs when they are in a solid position. It will be a sought after role.


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## GB72 (May 21, 2021)

Again, I emphasise that I am a football follower not a devout fan so apologies for any naïve comments but I really think that Kane is stuck at Spurs. That long contract means that they are in no hurry to sell and the money for anyone to buy him at the price Spurs can charge may simply not be there. As a few have said, the Spanish clubs are pretty skint (especially if Barca give Messi a new contract) the German clubs do not spend that sort of money, in fact City do not spend that sort of money on one player either it seems, and so that leaves PSG, United and Chelsea. Again, are any of them going £100 million plus post covid, who knows. 

I think it is bad timing in that he may be looking for a transfer at a time when clubs are looking to negotiate down on price at the same time that Levy would want a big number to let him go and the length of his contract meant he is tied in for a while yet.


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			I'd be amazed if any have been worse than Coady, especially in a two.
		
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Prepare to be amazed...


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## Jensen (May 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What I find bizarre is that rickety Goodison has escalators for the higher sections but the far newer stands at St James have nothing. Level 7 from memory to get to the top. Not fun.
		
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But you get a cracking view of the City  and Tyne Bridge.
Bloody awful view of the game though


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2021)

Jensen said:



			But you get a cracking view of the City  and Tyne Bridge.
Bloody awful view of the game though
		
Click to expand...

I was with my cousin one time up there and he started asking who individual Toon players were. I couldn't tell him, I couldn't distinguish so many of them from that distance 😆 . You are dead right, it's an awful place to watch a game from.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2021)

Non PL post.

Great start to the League 1 play off Semi Final between Blackpool & Oxford, made even better by the fact there are fans in the ground and no VAR.


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## pauljames87 (May 21, 2021)




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## Bazzatron (May 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He has been a great manager for you. Well backed but he has delivered. Any thoughts or rumours regarding a replacement?

Not often a club has a managers role up for grabs when they are in a solid position. It will be a sought after role.
		
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Greatest manager in my lifetime, I never thought I'd be able to say I'd seen my club play abroad in Europe, he gave us that opportunity. Lead us to two back to back 7th places finishes, a cup semi final (that still stings) and a Europa league quarter, I'm absolutely deflated that he's gone. 
This season hasn't been the best, rumours the board want to change direction slightly, which is fair enough and I'm glad he's had the chance to go on his own terms and not when the fanbase had turned on him after a few poor results.


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## 3offTheTee (May 22, 2021)

Hypothetical question. Which is preferable? To win The FA Cup for the first time and qualify for The Europa League OR Runners Up in FA Cup and 3rd in Premier League with qualification for The Champions League? For me it would be The Champions League.


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## Voyager EMH (May 22, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Hypothetical question. Which is preferable? To win The FA Cup for the first time and qualify for The Europa League OR Runners Up in FA Cup and 3rd in Premier League with qualification for The Champions League? For me it would be The Champions League.
		
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I could give an honest answer today, Sunday evening and end of season next year - all for different reasons and feelings at the time. If you had asked me at the start of the season I would have said FA Cup winners without any hesitation. At the moment I am clinging to that, because I can not see Villa or Palace doing LCFC a favour and Spurs will be tough to beat. 5th place looks the most likely - sadly. So at the moment - would not swap the Cup for auto CL qualification, mainly because of never winning it before. Whoever finishes 3rd and 4th will deserve to be there.


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## pauljames87 (May 22, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			I could give an honest answer today, Sunday evening and end of season next year - all for different reasons and feelings at the time. If you had asked me at the start of the season I would have said FA Cup winners without any hesitation. At the moment I am clinging to that, because I can not see Villa or Palace doing LCFC a favour and Spurs will be tough to beat. 5th place looks the most likely - sadly. So at the moment - would not swap the Cup for auto CL qualification, mainly because of never winning it before. Whoever finishes 3rd and 4th will deserve to be there.
		
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The way spurs have been recently I think you wi be more than enough for them

They can't wait for the season to end


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## clubchamp98 (May 22, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Hypothetical question. Which is preferable? To win The FA Cup for the first time and qualify for The Europa League OR Runners Up in FA Cup and 3rd in Premier League with qualification for The Champions League? For me it would be The Champions League.
		
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I have never been asked how many times we have qualified for the CL.
But have how many times we won FA cup.

The CL is about money.
Do you think you could win it?
As fans it’s nice to see the captain lift that trophy no better feeling.


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## Tashyboy (May 22, 2021)

[


3offTheTee said:



			Hypothetical question. Which is preferable? To win The FA Cup for the first time and qualify for The Europa League OR Runners Up in FA Cup and 3rd in Premier League with qualification for The Champions League? For me it would be The Champions League.
		
Click to expand...

FA cup. For me. 👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Hypothetical question. Which is preferable? To win The FA Cup for the first time and qualify for The Europa League OR Runners Up in FA Cup and 3rd in Premier League with qualification for The Champions League? For me it would be The Champions League.
		
Click to expand...

I think for Leicester and any other team who hadn’t won the FA Cup or a Team desperate for a trophy, like Everton etc it’s win the FA Cup and take the Europa League.

For the more succesful of late it has to be the CL imo.


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## AmandaJR (May 22, 2021)

FA Cup every time. The history is huge and I recall the days when the build up on TV was such that Cup Final Saturday started at about 10am with special Question of Sport and then also the players in their cup final suits etc...loved it.


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## Fade and Die (May 22, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			FA Cup every time. The history is huge and I recall the days when the build up on TV was such that Cup Final Saturday started at about 10am with special Question of Sport and then also the players in their cup final suits etc...loved it.
		
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Indeed and it being the only game of the day *and* a 3pm kick off! 

#nostalgia ain’t what it used to be.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 22, 2021)

Trophies should always be the priority but for some clubs CL is crucial - winning the domestic cup is great and it’s a trophy into the cabinet but the club would take CL over that , the fans though will want the trophy, the players may well want the CL as well 

Financially getting to the CL is worth around £70mil alone to a club - winning the FA Cup is around £3mil 

History wise the FA Cup is all there - it’s a shame that the domestic cups are now low in priority for many clubs 

Maybe it’s worth having one CL spot to the winners


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## AmandaJR (May 22, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Indeed and it being the only game of the day *and* a 3pm kick off!

#nostalgia ain’t what it used to be.
		
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Very true. Also in the times where there weren't live broadcasts every day of the week so it was super special.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Hypothetical question. Which is preferable? To win The FA Cup for the first time and qualify for The Europa League OR Runners Up in FA Cup and 3rd in Premier League with qualification for The Champions League? For me it would be The Champions League.
		
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Trophies are forever. 3rd in the PL is barely a footnote in history or in the memory. 

A chairman would say CL, I'd say trophy please.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2021)

I've watched the last 25 minutes of the Bournemouth v Brentford game and frankly Bournemouth have been horrible. Equivalent to Italian teams from the 70's and 80's. Time wasting, niggly fouls, Begovic in particular. It hasn't worked, Brentford scored towards the end and went through.


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## fundy (May 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've watched the last 25 minutes of the Bournemouth v Brentford game and frankly Bournemouth have been horrible. Equivalent to Italian teams from the 70's and 80's. Time wasting, niggly fouls, Begovic in particular. It hasn't worked, Brentford scored towards the end and went through.
		
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what do you expect from a side down to 10 men in the first half in a play off game when level?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			what do you expect from a side down to 10 men in the first half in a play off game when level?
		
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Be less horrible 😄.

I understand they were effectively playing for penalties, not compulsory incidentally, but the manner left a bad taste.


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## fundy (May 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Be less horrible 😄.

I understand they were effectively playing for penalties, not compulsory incidentally, but the manner left a bad taste.
		
Click to expand...

haha, i get that feeling a lot lately as an arsenal fan 

sending off changed the game completely, first 20 mins were great, brentford gifting them a goal then a soft penalty and the red card left bournemouth little other option really, was always going to be a lively game, hard to criticise sides too much with whats at stake esp when down to 10 for me


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2021)

The pressure of those occasions is immense, fair point. I initially criticised Brentford for not looking like much but then rewrote my post for that very reason. You can't judge teams in games like this.


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## pauljames87 (May 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The pressure of those occasions is immense, fair point. I initially criticised Brentford for not looking like much but then rewrote my post for that very reason. You can't judge teams in games like this.
		
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Brentford are a remarkable team 

They buy players cheap then sell for a profit to invest in the team 

They sold their best player to us (who's not quite hit the prem running but showing glimpses)

They might struggle in prem only because their scouting system is almost impossible now

The head of recruitment left, and his whole basis was based on buying young players cheap from the EU 

Which after brexit they wouldn't get the work permits so easy


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## pauljames87 (May 22, 2021)

That's an 11 of Brentford with prem quality


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## Slime (May 22, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Hypothetical question. Which is preferable? To win The FA Cup for the first time and qualify for The Europa League OR Runners Up in FA Cup and 3rd in Premier League with qualification for The Champions League? For me it would be The Champions League.
		
Click to expand...

For me it'd be The FA Cup for the 1st time, without question.


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## Fade and Die (May 22, 2021)

I know it’s a far cry from the Prem but well done AFC Hornchuch, coming back from a goal down to beat Hereford 1-3 in the FA Trophy. 
Up the Urchins! 😁


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## Pin-seeker (May 22, 2021)

Looking like Barnsley won’t be in the Prem next season 😣


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## pauljames87 (May 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looking like Barnsley won’t be in the Prem next season 😣
		
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I am hoping for Brentford , someone new 

However if they don't I 100% want us to sign Tovey


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## Pin-seeker (May 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I am hoping for Brentford , someone new

However if they don't I 100% want us to sign Tovey
		
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Can see the Barnsley manager going.
Rumours of Palace being interested as he’s an ex Palace player.


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## fundy (May 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Can see the Barnsley manager going.
Rumours of Palace being interested as he’s an ex Palace player.
		
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only been there 6 mths, massively overachieved for what was expected, bit early to be jumping ship 

there again palace wanted Lampard so maybe he fits what theyre looking for


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## Pin-seeker (May 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			only been there 6 mths, massively overachieved for what was expected, bit early to be jumping ship

there again palace wanted Lampard so maybe he fits what theyre looking for 

Click to expand...

Yeah I agree.
Barnsley’s  aim is to stay in the Championship,so massively over archived.
My old mans a season ticket holder & reckons Helik (Polish centre back) is class.


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## fundy (May 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah I agree.
Barnsley’s  aim is to stay in the Championship,so massively over archived.
My old mans a season ticket holder & reckons Helik (Polish centre back) is class.
		
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the lad up top Dike has done well of late too, theyve been good to watch, press very high at a high tempo, not sure thats sustainable long term, esp not at Prem level


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## fundy (May 22, 2021)

a glimmer of hope for Barnsley


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## Pin-seeker (May 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			the lad up top Dike has done well of late too, theyve been good to watch, press very high at a high tempo, not sure thats sustainable long term, esp not at Prem level
		
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They’d get hammered in the prem.
The owner is a Billionaire,but don’t think he’d throw money at it.
Plus I can’t see the superstars coming to live here 😂


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## Jensen (May 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			They’d get hammered in the prem.
The owner is a Billionaire,but don’t think he’d throw money at it.
Plus I can’t see the superstars coming to live here 😂
		
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Why not, after all Arthur Scargill was a Barnsley boy 😮


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## 3offTheTee (May 22, 2021)

Not quite Premiership but Trippier played for Spurs. So please Athletico won, Hate Real Madrid with all their money. Great to watch on Spanish TV as commentators . get so excited. My son has a language school in Madrid and Tripper went there for classes. well done Athletico and seeing Simone on the touch line was something else.

Sure many will remember Simone with Beckham!!


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## Blue in Munich (May 23, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Not quite Premiership but Trippier played for Spurs. So please Athletico won, Hate Real Madrid with all their money. Great to watch on Spanish TV as commentators . get so excited. My son has a language school in Madrid and Tripper went there for classes. well done Athletico and seeing Simone on the touch line was something else.

Sure many will remember *Simone with Beckham!!*

Click to expand...

It gets a mention here (not for the easily offended & there's the odd swearword... )


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## fundy (May 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It gets a mention here (not for the easily offended & there's the odd swearword... )







Click to expand...


i love this, shouldnt really watch it for the 4,562nd time lol


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## Blue in Munich (May 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			i love this, shouldnt really watch it for the 4,562nd time lol
		
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Check the Laughter the best medicine thread shortly then...


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## Slime (May 23, 2021)

Diallo and Elanga to start, which is good, with Shoretire and Mejbri on the bench, which is very good.
Mejbri is certainly one to watch.


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## pauljames87 (May 23, 2021)

Disappointed benrahma is benched today. After another assist in the last game (plus a goal the game before)

But still love Bowen


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## Orikoru (May 23, 2021)

Great start for us. I knew I should have had a bet on Leicester to win by over 2.5 goals. Our team is like a who's who of the most rubbish players we own - Doherty, Sanchez, Winks, Bergwijn. At least Everton have already lost so we can hang onto 8th place.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2021)

Cant keep missing these chances - nerves will start to creep in


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## pauljames87 (May 23, 2021)

Southampton looking very dangerous

Do well to get out of this with a draw let along a win


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## Wabinez (May 23, 2021)

How the hell has Grealish not been booked yet?!


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## pauljames87 (May 23, 2021)

I love fornals 

Too many people don't get him..what a player 

2 goals today 

Deserves it


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## Piece (May 23, 2021)

FA Cup win please, all day. I can see a regular cup winner would what top four. 

Brentford on their day are the best side in the Championship.

Chelsea in a small pickle...surely can't blow it?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2021)

Spurs helping out Chelsea at the moment getting the equaliser


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## Rlburnside (May 23, 2021)

Vardy won that penalty by linking his arm with Sanchez I thought it shouldn’t be given, but this is probably the only time I wouldn’t mind Spurs loosing just to keep Chelsea out of the top 4.


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## Orikoru (May 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spurs helping out Chelsea at the moment getting the equaliser
		
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We can't even help ourselves let alone anyone else.   When Kane leaves we're battling for 14th/15th unless we buy about 3 new defenders.


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## Orikoru (May 23, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Vardy won that penalty by linking his arm with Sanchez I thought it shouldn’t be given, but this is probably the only time I wouldn’t mind Spurs loosing just to keep Chelsea out of the top 4.
		
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I don't think there was much in it for a penalty, but Vardy is still going to have a field day against Sanchez. Turns him inside out, the lad can't defend.


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## pauljames87 (May 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think there was much in it for a penalty, but Vardy is still going to have a field day against Sanchez. Turns him inside out, the lad can't defend.
		
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I can't believe st Totteridge day might actually return 

That's embarrassing


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## Piece (May 23, 2021)

Come on Sergio, you know you want to play at The Vic next season  😂


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## Orikoru (May 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I can't believe st Totteridge day might actually return

That's embarrassing
		
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Well we've still got hope here, somehow. I had actually wandered off for the last ten minutes but we're back in it.


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## fundy (May 23, 2021)

Aguerro goodbye hat-trick incoming


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## pauljames87 (May 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well we've still got hope here, somehow. I had actually wandered off for the last ten minutes but we're back in it.
		
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Thankfully bale has scored 

To secure Europa conference


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## Orikoru (May 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Thankfully bale has scored

To secure Europa conference
		
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I don't know what has happened here, we always have mad games with them at the end of the season for some reason. Couldn't give a toss about Europe, but it would be nice not to finish below Arsenal.


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## chrisd (May 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know what has happened here, we always have mad games with them at the end of the season for some reason. Couldn't give a toss about Europe, but it would be nice not to finish below Arsenal.
		
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Really a great target, dont worry about anything else so long as you dont finish below Arsenal. Shame you didn't finish bottom two 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2021)

Well would have never expected to get into the CL but a brilliant last 10 games had done it and considering all the injuries mid season it’s a great achievement to end up 3rd

Leicester again miss out with Spurs helping out Chelsea


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## fundy (May 23, 2021)

chuffed for a couple of West Ham mates, gutted for an Everton friend, and glad were not in the conference in Europe next year  thank ******** that season is finally over for us


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## Orikoru (May 23, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Really a great target, dont worry about anything else so long as you dont finish below Arsenal. Shame you didn't finish bottom two 😁
		
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That was only my target for today. It's not like we had anything else to worry about. Until about two weeks ago it never seemed a possibility that we'd be below them. It's only a personal thing that makes my life easier, there's about 5 Arsenal fans in my Sunday team so I'd have to put my phone in the bin otherwise.


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## Slime (May 23, 2021)

So, United finish 2nd ................................ who'd have thought?
Great to see some of the children playing.


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## Pathetic Shark (May 23, 2021)

Piece said:



			Come on Sergio, you know you want to play at The Vic next season  😂
		
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Will he bring the green jacket he won at Augusta? 😂


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## 4LEX (May 23, 2021)

Grealish....utterly embarrassing. If he was more concerned about winning games and trophies compared to free kicks he'd not be wasting his peak years at a second rate side like Villa.


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## 4LEX (May 23, 2021)

Slime said:



			So, United finish 2nd ................................ who'd have thought?
Great to see some of the children playing.
		
Click to expand...

Credit where it's due, definitely didn't expect that and a shame you never took me up on the bet. Although worth noting that in a season of supposed progression, you've only finished above Liverpool by 5 points and they've had no defence for the nearly the entire season and been horrific upfront. Much more likely you''ll finish outside the Top 4 than second again, IMO.


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## Bazzatron (May 23, 2021)

Suddenly gone really dusty in here, something in my eyes.


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## fundy (May 23, 2021)

Gotta laugh at Spurs fans who spent 20 years criticising us for finishing top 4, celebrating top 7 tonight 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Enjoy the conference


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## Orikoru (May 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			Gotta laugh at Spurs fans who spent 20 years criticising us for finishing top 4, celebrating top 7 tonight 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Enjoy the conference
		
Click to expand...

Who the hell is celebrating that?


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## theoneandonly (May 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			Gotta laugh at Spurs fans who spent 20 years criticising us for finishing top 4, celebrating top 7 tonight 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Enjoy the conference
		
Click to expand...

The ones I know are laughing at the Arteta process of no european football for the first time in 25 years and finishing below the poorest Tottenham side in quite some time.


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## fundy (May 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Who the hell is celebrating that?
		
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couple of my friends lol


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## Orikoru (May 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			couple of my friends lol
		
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They're dummies then. I always hated that 'St Totteringham Day' nonsense, because it showed a pretty embarrassing lack of ambition, and I would hate for us to fall into the same trap. I'm very relieved we finished above the poorest Arsenal side in 25 years, given how many Arsenal fans I know, but I certainly won't be celebrating it. And I'm ashamed of any Spurs fans that are. Our club could be on the verge of collapsing back to bottom half finishes here if we're not very careful this summer.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			couple of my friends lol
		
Click to expand...

Seen a number on social media celebrate just because they have finished above Arsenal- it’s like when Everton were celebrating winning the title in October 😂

It’s been a strange old season and im amazed we finished third only 5 points behind UTD who had their best season in years. 

Think overall the standard this year has been prob the worst seen in the Prem for years. Might be because of the lack of pre season , no fans etc. Thankfully it was great to hear the crowds again and hopefully next season will be far better


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## AmandaJR (May 23, 2021)

I may have dust in my eye...


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## fundy (May 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			They're dummies then. I always hated that 'St Totteringham Day' nonsense, because it showed a pretty embarrassing lack of ambition, and I would hate for us to fall into the same trap. I'm very relieved we finished above the poorest Arsenal side in 25 years, given how many Arsenal fans I know, but I certainly won't be celebrating it. And I'm ashamed of any Spurs fans that are. Our club could be on the verge of collapsing back to bottom half finishes here if we're not very careful this summer.
		
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Yup not much to shout about for either of us and probably gonna get worse rather than better for both in the short term too. Long summer ahead for both clubs (and plenty of others). Weve been borderline a bottom half side for a large chunk of the year


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## 4LEX (May 23, 2021)

Not sure what's more amazing - Ageuro's goal and trophy haul or the fact that after a decade in England he can't speak English


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## fundy (May 23, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I may have dust in my eye...

Click to expand...


Good practise for next weekend 

Enjoy your celebrations


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## AmandaJR (May 23, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Not sure what's more amazing - Ageuro's goal and trophy haul or the fact that after a decade in England he can't speak English 

Click to expand...

I think it's better than he comes across - more he's uncomfortable being interviewed.


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## Jensen (May 23, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Not sure what's more amazing - Ageuro's goal and trophy haul or the fact that after a decade in England he can't speak English 

Click to expand...

Yeah, imagine not being able to watch Coronation Street without an interrupter


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## davemc1 (May 23, 2021)

Thank Christ that’s over with. Shame for Leicester but hey, the cup is a more than adequate alternative. 

Roll on August


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 23, 2021)

Just in off the course and seen the results!
Thank god the season is over

Wanted/hoped for 6th-8th this season and pathetic home form ruined that.

Still 10pts better and 2 places higher than last season puts a slight positive on this season that had promised so much. I’ll give us a C+.

Did have a good laugh at/with a couple of red noses in the clubhouse celebrating 3rd and CL qualification, oh how the mighty have fallen! Had to remind one of them they were top at christmas and talking about back to back titles.


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## davemc1 (May 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Just in off the course and seen the results!
Thank god the season is over

Wanted/hoped for 6th-8th this season and pathetic home form ruined that.

Still 10pts better and 2 places higher than last season puts a slight positive on this season that had promised so much. I’ll give us a C+.

Did have a good laugh at/with a couple of red noses in the clubhouse celebrating 3rd and CL qualification, oh how the mighty have fallen! Had to remind one of them they were top at christmas and talking about back to back titles. 

Click to expand...

You sacked Sam for finishing 8th. Carlo spends a bill and you finish 12th, 10th 🥺


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## fundy (May 23, 2021)

Oh dear, Gabriel lost a tooth in the post match "celebrations". Its hardly big Tone dropping Steve Morrow and breaking his arm after winning the cup though 🤣🤣🤣


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 23, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			You sacked Sam for finishing 8th. Carlo spends a bill and you finish 12th, 10th 🥺
		
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Did you not read what I put?

8th with 49pts, we’ve also had Silva inbetween and this is Ancelotti’s first full season, he’s spent £69 mil in 3 transfer windows.

I’d worry about yous being 2 places and 30pts worse off if I was you. Poor title defence😂😂


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## Reemul (May 23, 2021)

10th is pathetic from us. We are going nowhere. I mean we only just finished ahead of Newcastle.


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## clubchamp98 (May 23, 2021)

Very good from reds today they looked a lot quicker with the ball.
Think that’s down to the fans being there.
Two young lads at the back deserve a big pat on the back for doing well over the last few games.
Alisson for goal of the season.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			You sacked Sam for finishing 8th. Carlo spends a bill and you finish 12th, 10th 🥺
		
Click to expand...




net spend of £250mil in the past 5 years ( £440mil ) - not bad to keep sealing that mid table spot 😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 36741

net spend of £250mil in the past 5 years ( £440mil ) - not bad to keep sealing that mid table spot 😁
		
Click to expand...

Boom!! The net spend table is out. 🎣🎣🎣 You are so easy and predictable😂😂

Cheers Davie lar.👍🏻


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## Slime (May 23, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Credit where it's due, definitely didn't expect that and a shame you never took me up on the bet. *Although worth noting that in a season of supposed progression, you've only finished above Liverpool by 5 points and they've had no defence for the nearly the entire season and been horrific upfront.* Much more likely you''ll finish outside the Top 4 than second again, IMO.
		
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We've done better than everyone else except Man City.
Besides, some would suggest United haven't had a defence for at least two years!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I may have dust in my eye...

Click to expand...

Henry will always seem to get the highlights but for me Aguero is pretty close to being the best foreign player to play in the Prem - just a truly outstanding Goalscorer , going to be a miss in the Prem. 

It’s also sad to see Gini play his last game for us - he has been the perfect player for Klopp and going to be a miss for us 

Both great players going to be missed


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## 4LEX (May 23, 2021)

Slime said:



			We've done better than everyone else except Man City.
Besides, some would suggest United haven't had a defence for at least two years!
		
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True but do you think City only get in the mid 80's next season? They've won the title by 12 points and had an average season. Utd were awful last season by and large and the same this season. Expected points has Utd way below their position, infact bottom of that metric - which backs up the bad performances papered over by dodgy decisions, lucky or Bruno magic.

Ole isn't ruthless enough to demand more money or to get rid of the deadwood.


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## 4LEX (May 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Henry will always seem to get the highlights but for me Aguero is pretty close to being the best foreign player to play in the Prem - just a truly outstanding Goalscorer , going to be a miss in the Prem.

It’s also sad to see Gini play his last game for us - he has been the perfect player for Klopp and going to be a miss for us

Both great players going to be missed
		
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I think people forget how good Henry was. He was getting 30 goals and 20 assists for years. Ageuro is obviously world class but circumstances and lack of competition have put him higher than he deserves. Henry, Ronaldo and Van Vistelrooy above him for me.


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## Slime (May 23, 2021)

4LEX said:



			True but do you think City only get in the mid 80's next season? They've won the title by 12 points and had an average season. Utd were awful last season by and large and the same this season. Expected points has Utd way below their position, infact bottom of that metric - which backs up the bad performances papered over by dodgy decisions, lucky or Bruno magic.

Ole isn't ruthless enough to demand more money or to get rid of the deadwood.
		
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I think City will find things very easy next season, especially if they get Kane.
L'pool will put up a better fight, obviously, and much of the rest depends on transfers.
Chelsea spent £¼bn last season to finish with one more point and in the same position as last year!
You keep on saying how awful United have been for the last couple of years, just what do you think of all the other so called big teams?
Dodgy decisions is largely an ABU myth, I wish people would get over it ............................. but I know they won't as long as it's something to cling on to!


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## Slime (May 23, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Ole isn't ruthless enough to demand more money or to get rid of the deadwood.
		
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I'd be surprised if he's financially supported by the Glazers because no manager has been once ECL has been guaranteed.


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## Slime (May 23, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I think people forget how good Henry was. He was getting 30 goals and 20 assists for years. Ageuro is obviously world class but circumstances and lack of competition have put him higher than he deserves. *Henry, Ronaldo and Van Vistelrooy above him for me.*

Click to expand...

Don't forget Cantona and Bergkamp.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I think people forget how good Henry was. He was getting 30 goals and 20 assists for years. Ageuro is obviously world class but circumstances and lack of competition have put him higher than he deserves. Henry, Ronaldo and Van Vistelrooy above him for me.
		
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Aguero scored 187 goals in 275 games plus 47 assists - Ronaldo in the Prem wasn’t anywhere near the level Aguero has reached , RVN I don’t think even reached 100 goals , Henry got 70 assists plus 175 goals in the same amount of games as Aguero

He scored the goals that helped them to 5 league titles - his record is phenomenal but  seems to always be ignored when the discussion about best foreign player is scored. I would take him over the likes of RVN and the Ronaldo in the Prem every day of the week


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## fundy (May 23, 2021)

Talking of net spend, the last 5 years PSG have "spent" £390m while Lille have "earnt" £140m. Lille have just won the league


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			Talking of net spend, the last 5 years PSG have "spent" £390m while Lille have "earnt" £140m. Lille have just won the league 

Click to expand...

It’s good to see the “Spursy” is still strong within Pochettino- managed to take it to PSG with him.


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## fundy (May 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s good to see the “Spursy” is still strong within Pochettino- managed to take it to PSG with him.
		
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our purchasing dept got something to do with it too lol


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## BiMGuy (May 23, 2021)

Very happy to finish 9th first season back. Extra sweet finishing above Villa, and putting to bed the nonsense that we will burn out.


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## Slime (May 23, 2021)

Leeds were definitely one of the shining lights of this past season.


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## Blue in Munich (May 23, 2021)

Wabinez said:



			How the hell has Grealish not been booked yet?!
		
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How did he stay on the pitch?


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## Wabinez (May 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			How did he stay on the pitch?
		
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baffling


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## Liverbirdie (May 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Just in off the course and seen the results!
Thank god the season is over

Wanted/hoped for 6th-8th this season and pathetic home form ruined that.

Still 10pts better and 2 places higher than last season puts a slight positive on this season that had promised so much. I’ll give us a C+.

Did have a good laugh at/with a couple of red noses in the clubhouse celebrating 3rd and CL qualification, oh how the mighty have fallen! Had to remind one of them they were top at christmas and talking about back to back titles. 

Click to expand...

Its better to fall, than to never reach.


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## Liverbirdie (May 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Did you not read what I put?

8th with 49pts, we’ve also had Silva inbetween and this is Ancelotti’s first full season, he’s spent £69 mil in 3 transfer windows.

I’d worry about yous being 2 places and 30pts worse off if I was you. Poor title defence😂😂
		
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Oh so its all positives for you, but all negatives for us? 

Rent free?


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## Liverbirdie (May 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Aguero scored 187 goals in 275 games plus 47 assists - Ronaldo in the Prem wasn’t anywhere near the level Aguero has reached , RVN I don’t think even reached 100 goals , Henry got 70 assists plus 175 goals in the same amount of games as Aguero

He scored the goals that helped them to 5 league titles - his record is phenomenal but  seems to always be ignored when the discussion about best foreign player is scored. I would take him over the likes of RVN and the Ronaldo in the Prem every day of the week
		
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Henry was a great footballer, Aguero a great goalscorer.

If given the option of both, I would pick Henry every time to have been in our shirt.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh so its all positives for you, but all negatives for us?

Rent free? 

Click to expand...

Of course it is Pete, I never made one negative comment about us.


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## Liverbirdie (May 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Just in off the course and seen the results!
Thank god the season is over

Wanted/hoped for 6th-8th this season and pathetic home form ruined that.

Still 10pts better and 2 places higher than last season puts a slight positive on this season that had promised so much. I’ll give us a C+.

Did have a good laugh at/with a couple of red noses in the clubhouse celebrating 3rd and CL qualification, oh how the mighty have fallen! Had to remind one of them they were top at christmas and talking about back to back titles. 

Click to expand...

Did you remind yourself that you were also top this season, and many bloos were talking top four and maybe more also. 9 places later........


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## Liverbirdie (May 23, 2021)

Well done reds, didnt look good 2 months ago, but you never do it the easy way.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 24, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Did you remind yourself that you were also top this season, and many bloos were talking top four and maybe more also. 9 places later........

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It certainly is a one off season - must be the first time ever that the league trophy was awarded both in October to the winners then and once again in May to the winners then


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## fundy (May 24, 2021)

Who's Will i am from the premier fantasy league then? Or do i get forum bragging rights


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## Voyager EMH (May 24, 2021)

4LEX said:



			How crap are Leicester? Sums up the season when this bunch are going to finish in the top 4.
		
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I don't want to talk about it. 

FA CUP WINNERS!


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## Bdill93 (May 24, 2021)

Good season for Villa. Never once did we fear relegation which is a huge change from last season.  All credit to Deano and the coaching staff, we have really turned a corner. 

Great signings all round last summer, every player made a difference. 

Shame we lost Jack for 12 games, he comes back and we win against Spurs and Chelsea - says a lot! If we had him for the full year we would have been a lot closer to making Europe - even if it was just the new conference thing!

Few key additions again in the coming window, get more strength in depth and we will be in a better position - love our owners and the investment isnt stopping any time soon. 

UTV


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## Tashyboy (May 24, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I think people forget how good Henry was. He was getting 30 goals and 20 assists for years. *Ageuro is obviously world class but circumstances and lack of competition have put him higher than he deserves. *Henry, Ronaldo and Van Vistelrooy above him for me.
		
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Isn’t this a contradiction🤔, he is world class but is higher than he deserves to be. Like the league table it don’t lie. He stuck with one team in the Prem, the other three choose not to.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Isn’t this a contradiction🤔, he is world class but is higher than he deserves to be. Like the league table it don’t lie. *He stuck with one team in the Prem, the other three choose not to.*

Click to expand...

Henry , RVN and Ronaldo only played for one team in the Prem 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (May 24, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Good season for Villa. Never once did we fear relegation which is a huge change from last season.  All credit to Deano and the coaching staff, we have really turned a corner. 

Great signings all round last summer, every player made a difference. 

Shame we lost Jack for 12 games, he comes back and we win against Spurs and Chelsea - says a lot! If we had him for the full year we would have been a lot closer to making Europe - even if it was just the new conference thing!

Few key additions again in the coming window, get more strength in depth and we will be in a better position - love our owners and the investment isnt stopping any time soon. 

UTV
		
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Have enjoyed watching Villa this year in the main, decent side. I guess the big question is are you able to keep Grealish for next season (wont be the first or last time youve heard that eh). Martinez has clearly done well for you, think your first choice defense has been good, am a massive Mcginn fan (esp when hes played a bit more advanced). The one I dont think gets the credit he deserves is Watkins, his workrate is excellent, always gives the team an out, causes defenders problems and scores goals, has actually been a touch unlucky with VAR offsides and hitting the woodwork more than his fair share! Adding some depth in a few key positions would solidify your position for sure but along with West Ham, Villa overachieved compared to expectations more than any other side


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## Pin-seeker (May 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Have enjoyed watching Villa this year in the main, decent side. I guess the big question is are you able to keep Grealish for next season (wont be the first or last time youve heard that eh). Martinez has clearly done well for you, think your first choice defense has been good, am a massive Mcginn fan (esp when hes played a bit more advanced). The one I dont think gets the credit he deserves is Watkins, his workrate is excellent, always gives the team an out, causes defenders problems and scores goals, has actually been a touch unlucky with VAR offsides and hitting the woodwork more than his fair share! Adding some depth in a few key positions would solidify your position for sure *but along with West Ham, Villa overachieved compared to expectations more than any other side*

Click to expand...

Leeds?


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## Pin-seeker (May 25, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396761376446717954


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Have enjoyed watching Villa this year in the main, decent side. I guess the big question is are you able to keep Grealish for next season (wont be the first or last time youve heard that eh). Martinez has clearly done well for you, think your first choice defense has been good, am a massive Mcginn fan (esp when hes played a bit more advanced). The one I dont think gets the credit he deserves is Watkins, his workrate is excellent, always gives the team an out, causes defenders problems and scores goals, has actually been a touch unlucky with VAR offsides and hitting the woodwork more than his fair share! Adding some depth in a few key positions would solidify your position for sure but along with West Ham, Villa overachieved compared to expectations more than any other side
		
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Its getting boring every summer seeing the paper make up stories about Jack leaving. And Arsenal fans obsessed with signing him all over twitter for some strange reason.. YAWN

Jack will cost someone 120 million easily, because that what he will cost to replace. Theres no one quite like him in the premier league. But hes at HIS club, captain and he can see how were developing. Our owners mean serious business and we cant progress if we sell our talisman. Jacks going NOWHERE (for now anyway)

I went to watch the youth cup final last night at Villa Park - Carney Chukwumemka is one for the future for sure! Head and shoulders above everyone else on that pitch - and he plays a lot like Jack!


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## Pin-seeker (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Its getting boring every summer seeing the paper make up stories about Jack leaving. And Arsenal fans obsessed with signing him all over twitter for some strange reason.. YAWN

Jack will cost someone 120 million easily, because that what he will cost to replace. Theres no one quite like him in the premier league. But hes at HIS club, captain and he can see how were developing. Our owners mean serious business and we cant progress if we sell our talisman. Jacks going NOWHERE (for now anyway)

I went to watch the youth cup final last night at Villa Park - Carney Chukwumemka is one for the future for sure! Head and shoulders above everyone else on that pitch - and he plays a lot like Jack!
		
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If the club want £120m for him then he’s definitely going nowhere.


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Its getting boring every summer seeing the paper make up stories about Jack leaving. And Arsenal fans obsessed with signing him all over twitter for some strange reason.. YAWN

Jack will cost someone 120 million easily, because that what he will cost to replace. Theres no one quite like him in the premier league. But hes at HIS club, captain and he can see how were developing. Our owners mean serious business and we cant progress if we sell our talisman. Jacks going NOWHERE (for now anyway)

I went to watch the youth cup final last night at Villa Park - Carney Chukwumemka is one for the future for sure! Head and shoulders above everyone else on that pitch - and he plays a lot like Jack!
		
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Is that the guy who came in other week and hit the post?

Grealish has to be Levy's biggest mistake .. he could have signed him when you went down but was too cheap to pay what 30 mil was it at the time? Now as you say add 90 odd to that


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			If the club want £120m for him then he’s definitely going nowhere.
		
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pauljames87 said:



			Is that the guy who came in other week and hit the post?

Grealish has to be Levy's biggest mistake .. he could have signed him when you went down but was too cheap to pay what 30 mil was it at the time? Now as you say add 90 odd to that
		
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Easy 120 - if not more. He single handedly kept us up last year and look how good we play when he returned to the team. Hes irreplaceable - therefore the fee is justified!

And yeah, thats the kid - hes special! Still U18 though so may take a year or two before we see him regularly - although Dortmund are sniffing around apparently


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## GB72 (May 25, 2021)

I think that this is one of the impacts of the vast amount of money that flows into football, most premier league clubs simply do not have to sell players any more. OK, they may want the funding for other reasons so agree to a sale but it is rarer these days to see a premier league club in a position where they have to sell their best players and they can put the large price tags on them if another club is interested.


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Easy 120 - if not more. He single handedly kept us up last year and look how good we play when he returned to the team. Hes irreplaceable - therefore the fee is justified!

And yeah, thats the kid - hes special! Still U18 though so may take a year or two before we see him regularly - although Dortmund are sniffing around apparently
		
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Yeah I caught the end of that game and was willing you on from the selfish reason of needed Europe finish for us 

Then I was like for crying out loud he bringing kids on. Surprised me how good he was and the other guy didn't look bad?

All a clamour for Ming's to go the euros im surprised ngoyo not been called up.. he looks very promising


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I think that this is one of the impacts of the vast amount of money that flows into football, most premier league clubs simply do not have to sell players any more. OK, they may want the funding for other reasons so agree to a sale but it is rarer these days to see a premier league club in a position where they have to sell their best players and they can put the large price tags on them if another club is interested.
		
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Try telling the David's that. Pleading poverty already about loss of gates costing us don't expect money 

I'm sorry you sold Upton park for what 80 million?
You loaned the club cash and took interest on the loans so all the club owes is to you 
We don't own a stadium or pay a bill to upkeep it .. it's like what 3 million a year?

What exactly do we have to cover? Wages? You sold a lot of the dead wood.

We should have a decent war chest to play with covid or not when there is no infrastructure to maintain? I mean rush green is hardly state of the art.


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yeah I caught the end of that game and was willing you on from the selfish reason of needed Europe finish for us

Then I was like for crying out loud he bringing kids on. Surprised me how good he was and the other guy didn't look bad?

All a clamour for Ming's to go the euros im surprised ngoyo not been called up.. he looks very promising
		
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Both young lads played well, the other being Jaden Philogene-Bidace - I cant say I know much about him, he didnt play last night strangely!

Konsa is a baller, should be in that England squad within the next 2 years no problem, especially as were so thin at CB. Mings is either your best defender or your worst, has a mistake in him but can also save you 3 points time and time again!


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Its getting boring every summer seeing the paper make up stories about Jack leaving. And Arsenal fans obsessed with signing him all over twitter for some strange reason.. YAWN

Jack will cost someone 120 million easily, because that what he will cost to replace. Theres no one quite like him in the premier league. But hes at HIS club, captain and he can see how were developing. Our owners mean serious business and we cant progress if we sell our talisman. Jacks going NOWHERE (for now anyway)

I went to watch the youth cup final last night at Villa Park - Carney Chukwumemka is one for the future for sure! Head and shoulders above everyone else on that pitch - and he plays a lot like Jack!
		
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Were only linked without about 147 players each summer, i wouldnt worry too much about the delusions of some of our fans lol


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Both young lads played well, the other being Jaden Philogene-Bidace - I cant say I know much about him, he didnt play last night strangely!

Konsa is a baller, should be in that England squad within the next 2 years no problem, especially as were so thin at CB. Mings is either your best defender or your worst, has a mistake in him but can also save you 3 points time and time again!
		
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...med-Englands-provisional-Euro-2020-squad.html

Seems like Ben White has pushed ahead of Konsa if this is true.


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...med-Englands-provisional-Euro-2020-squad.html

Seems like Ben White has pushed ahead of Konsa if this is true.
		
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Bit of a shame considering all of our clean sheets this season - but White is a good player, can see him moving on to bigger things.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...med-Englands-provisional-Euro-2020-squad.html

Seems like Ben White has pushed ahead of Konsa if this is true.
		
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Ben White is a very good defender , would see him ahead of the likes of Mings


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ben White is a very good defender , would see him ahead of the likes of Mings
		
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Mings deserves his spot. I dont think anyone is playing other than Maguire and Stones though to be honest.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Mings deserves his spot. I dont think anyone is playing other than Maguire and Stones though to be honest.
		
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Is Maguire not out of the Euro's through injury?


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## Jensen (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Easy 120 - if not more. He single handedly kept us up last year and look how good we play when he returned to the team. Hes irreplaceable - therefore the fee is justified!

And yeah, thats the kid - hes special! Still U18 though so may take a year or two before we see him regularly - although Dortmund are sniffing around apparently
		
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Unfortunately, some stand out young players don’t progress to the levels you expect. I remember watching Paul Rideout when he played for England boys, he stood out head and shoulders, but sadly didn’t go on to the level that I thought he would.
I know he played in the premiership and believe he scored for Everton in a cup final at Wembley, but he didn’t reach the peak I predicted.


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## Pin-seeker (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Easy 120 - if not more. He single handedly kept us up last year and look how good we play when he returned to the team. Hes irreplaceable - therefore the fee is justified!

And yeah, thats the kid - hes special! Still U18 though so may take a year or two before we see him regularly - although Dortmund are sniffing around apparently
		
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Helping keep Villa up doesn’t make you a £120m player.
But if that’s what the club value him at then happy days for you ,because no one would pay it & he’d be a massive loss to you.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Unfortunately, some stand out young players don’t progress to the levels you expect. I remember watching Paul Rideout when he played for England boys, he stood out head and shoulders, but sadly didn’t go on to the level that I thought he would.
I know he played in the premiership and believe he scored for Everton in a cup final at Wembley, but he didn’t reach the peak I predicted.
		
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I've lost count of the number of names this applies to. Add in the younger brother that is a better prospect.........You never know how people will develop. Injuries, distractions, plateauing early. No one is ever nailed on, there is always an element of gamble.


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## clubchamp98 (May 25, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Unfortunately, some stand out young players don’t progress to the levels you expect. I remember watching Paul Rideout when he played for England boys, he stood out head and shoulders, but sadly didn’t go on to the level that I thought he would.
I know he played in the premiership and believe he scored for Everton in a cup final at Wembley, but he didn’t reach the peak I predicted.
		
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I had a tenner on him to score that goal .
Thought he was a decent player.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Easy 120 - if not more. He single handedly kept us up last year and look how good we play when he returned to the team. Hes irreplaceable - therefore the fee is justified!

And yeah, thats the kid - hes special! Still U18 though so may take a year or two before we see him regularly - although Dortmund are sniffing around apparently
		
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I think Grealish is a superb player but it would take a lot less than £120 mil to get him . A decent bit of around £80mil would get him - players like Kane , Haaland etc will be going for those prices over £100mil - not someone like Grealish who hasnt done it at the top level consistently ie international and even European level.


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is Maguire not out of the Euro's through injury?
		
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TBF not sure - dont follow united a lot


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			TBF not sure - dont follow united a lot 

Click to expand...

You and me both . I thought I saw a headline regarding him a few weeks ago but I was not certain, and not bothered enough to read it


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is Maguire not out of the Euro's through injury?
		
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hes in United squad for  the Europa final this week albeit not expected to play but will be in the England squad and should be fit if no set backs

far too many of the England squad injured or returning from injury at the end of the season cant be a good thing


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## BiMGuy (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Easy 120 - if not more. He single handedly kept us up last year and look how good we play when he returned to the team. Hes irreplaceable - therefore the fee is justified!

And yeah, thats the kid - hes special! Still U18 though so may take a year or two before we see him regularly - although Dortmund are sniffing around apparently
		
Click to expand...

He might be worth 120 to you. But not to anyone else.

He's currently the big fish in a small pond, so stands out. That won't be the case at one of thr top 4 or 5 teams.


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think Grealish is a superb player but it would take a lot less than £120 mil to get him . A decent bit of around £80mil would get him - players like Kane , Haaland etc will be going for those prices over £100mil - not someone like Grealish who hasnt done it at the top level consistently ie international and even European level.
		
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BiMGuy said:



			He might be worth 120 to you. But not to anyone else.

He's currently the big fish in a small pond, so stands out. That won't be the case at one of thr top 4 or 5 teams.
		
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Wilf Zaha got priced at 100m+ by Palace. Hes no better than Jack. 

The price is what we need to replace what we lose, not a reflection of playing ability. He signed a brand new contract last summer so we have years left on his deal, you want Jack, you pay BIG money. Simple as that - but hes not going anywhere. 

I dont think anyone respects how rich and motivated our owners actually are. Wes Edens developed the Milwaukee Bucks into a billion dollar franchise competing for the NBA title. He knows what hes doing. 

International football is not the top level of football at all, but thats a different discussion all together. European comps are the top tier.


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

This provisional squad is basically "I dont know which RB to pick, so im going to pick them all"


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			This provisional squad is basically "I dont know which RB to pick, so im going to pick them all" 

Click to expand...

I can see him adding an extra CB , Mid and forwards to cover people playing in the CL and Europa finals 

I still see TAA missing out for Tripper , James and Walker 

White looks like he will be in the 30 to prob cover for Maguire then players like Maddison , Ings will prob be in


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			This provisional squad is basically "I dont know which RB to pick, so im going to pick them all" 

Click to expand...


thats fine until he does the same with the final squad


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can see him adding an extra CB , Mid and forwards to cover people playing in the CL and Europa finals

I still see TAA missing out for Tripper , James and Walker

White looks like he will be in the 30 to prob cover for Maguire then players like Maddison , Ings will prob be in
		
Click to expand...

Trent would have been first name on the sheet 12 months ago too.. Mad really!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Trent would have been first name on the sheet 12 months ago too.. Mad really!
		
Click to expand...

Imo he should still be one of the first on the team sheet - his form dropped a bit mid season when the whole team dropped but he has been outstanding over the last two months. I just don’t think Southgate trusts him or even know how to get the best out of him where as Tripper is nice and solid for him


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Imo he should still be one of the first on the team sheet - his form dropped a bit mid season when the whole team dropped but he has been outstanding over the last two months. I just don’t think Southgate trusts him or even know how to get the best out of him where as Tripper is nice and solid for him
		
Click to expand...


Southgate clearly goes defense before attack in almost every decision hence why we play with 2 holding midfielders in every game, not a chance hes going to pick an attacking defender over a defensive one in the Euro finals so best TAA can hope for is to be used as an impact sub (and even then I expect Southgate unlikely to go down this road)


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

Roberto Martinez to spurs?

Would you be happy with the spurs fans?


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Roberto Martinez to spurs?

Would you be happy with the spurs fans?
		
Click to expand...

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah

I'd be happy with that 

What a terrible manager


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah

I'd be happy with that

What a terrible manager
		
Click to expand...

Villa double over spurs next season incoming!!!!


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Imo he should still be one of the first on the team sheet - his form dropped a bit mid season when the whole team dropped but he has been outstanding over the last two months. I just don’t think Southgate trusts him or even know how to get the best out of him where as Tripper is nice and solid for him
		
Click to expand...

Im not sure you can ignore Walker and his season, he's been solid and he's my starter. I'd rather take TAA than Trippier, even though he has just won La Liga.. he is 30! TAA has 3 tournaments left at least


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## Pin-seeker (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think Grealish is a superb player but it would take a lot less than £120 mil to get him . A decent bit of around £80mil would get him - players like Kane , Haaland etc will be going for those prices over £100mil - not someone like Grealish who hasnt done it at the top level consistently ie international and even European level.
		
Click to expand...

Thought you said Kane would be around £80m? 🤔


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## ColchesterFC (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Im not sure you can ignore Walker and his season, he's been solid and he's my starter. I'd rather take TAA than Trippier, even though he has just won La Liga.. he is 30! TAA has 3 tournaments left at least
		
Click to expand...

Walker will be playing on the right side of the back three rather than at full back, at least that's what I assume from how Southgate has previously used him, so it's not an either Walker or TAA. It's TAA or Trippier or James - pick two out of three.


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Walker will be playing on the right side of the back three rather than at full back, at least that's what I assume from how Southgate has previously used him, so it's not an either Walker or TAA. It's TAA or Trippier or James - pick two out of three.
		
Click to expand...

5 back makes me feel physically sick with our generation of talent going forward but - 

TAA and James.. easy decision for me.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Roberto Martinez to spurs?

Would you be happy with the spurs fans?
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think that’s the worst appointment - did well at Swansea then Wigan ( winning the FA Cup for them was excellent ) , was up and down at Everton but appears to have done a very good job with Belgium - only 4 defeats in 50 plus games with them.

He isn’t at the top branch of managers but certainly in the group below - will get them playing better football than Mourniho but will of course depend on backing and if Kane will stay - reckon he is the sort of manager that would make the team all about Kane 


pauljames87 said:



			Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah

I'd be happy with that

What a terrible manager
		
Click to expand...

🤦‍♂️

A terrible manager doesn’t manage the number one international team for 5 years moving them forward.


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Roberto Martinez to spurs?

Would you be happy with the spurs fans?
		
Click to expand...

Jesus God, no. Anyone but him. Absolutely awful manager.


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t think that’s the worst appointment - did well at Swansea then Wigan ( winning the FA Cup for them was excellent ) , was up and down at Everton but appears to have done a very good job with Belgium - only 4 defeats in 50 plus games with them.

He isn’t at the top branch of managers but certainly in the group below - will get them playing better football than Mourniho but will of course depend on backing and if Kane will stay - reckon he is the sort of manager that would make the team all about Kane

🤦‍♂️

A terrible manager doesn’t manage the number one international team for 5 years moving them forward.
		
Click to expand...

Entirely different ball game.
Doesn't have a budget, board , or fans expectation to deal with 

Want the best Belgium player to play for you.. 100 mil? Nope just pick up phone dear Mr debyrne you have been called up to play for the all stars


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Jesus God, no. Anyone but him. Absolutely awful manager.
		
Click to expand...

Dw Phil rates him so he must be good 🤣


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t think that’s the worst appointment - did well at Swansea then Wigan ( winning the FA Cup for them was excellent ) , was up and down at Everton but appears to have done a very good job with Belgium - only 4 defeats in 50 plus games with them.

He isn’t at the top branch of managers but certainly in the group below - will get them playing better football than Mourniho but will of course depend on backing and if Kane will stay - reckon he is the sort of manager that would make the team all about Kane

🤦‍♂️

A terrible manager doesn’t manage the number one international team for 5 years moving them forward.
		
Click to expand...

The team Belgium had was absolutely unreal, a once in a lifetime golden generation who should have been challenging for international trophies, but I don't think he's got them anywhere close. They've been wasted.


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## ColchesterFC (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The team Belgium had was absolutely unreal, a* once in a lifetime golden generation who should have been challenging for international trophies*, but I don't think he's got them anywhere close. They've been wasted.
		
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That sounds awfully familiar for some reason.


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That sounds awfully familiar for some reason.
		
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Yeah and we had the same problem! Talent wasted by useless management.


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## pokerjoke (May 25, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Thought you said Kane would be around £80m? 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Scored the weekend and got the golden boot, adds £20 million


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The team Belgium had was absolutely unreal, a once in a lifetime golden generation who should have been challenging for international trophies, but I don't think he's got them anywhere close. They've been wasted.
		
Click to expand...

Not got them close ? Took them to the semi finals of the World Cup beating the likes of England , Spain and Brazil - only just being edged out by France in a very tight semi final. Is that not challenging?

He has had one tournament and was excellent in it. Done well in the Premier League as well - so what exactly makes him a “terrible” or “awful” manager ? Is it because he isn’t a “name” - Mourinho was and looked what happened there - Pochettino did nothing special before he went to Spurs.

Maybe someone like Martínez is exactly what Spurs need

He is being dismissed because he managed Swansea and Wigan - just like Pochettino did with Soton before.


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## pokerjoke (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Im not sure you can ignore Walker and his season, he's been solid and he's my starter. I'd rather take TAA than Trippier, even though he has just won La Liga.. he is 30! TAA has 3 tournaments left at least
		
Click to expand...

Can’t see TAA getting in the 26
Can’t defend


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2021)

A few missing out - Ings , Bamford , Dier

So which 7 miss out

Ramsdale
Godfrey or White ( depending on Maguire fitness)
TAA or Trippier
Lingard
Ward Prowse
Saka
Watkins


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not got them close ? Took them to the semi finals of the World Cup beating the likes of England , Spain and Brazil - only just being edged out by France in a very tight semi final. Is that not challenging?

He has had one tournament and was excellent in it. Done well in the Premier League as well - so what exactly makes him a “terrible” or “awful” manager ? Is it because he isn’t a “name” - Mourinho was and looked what happened there - Pochettino did nothing special before he went to Spurs.

Maybe someone like Martínez is exactly what Spurs need
		
Click to expand...

Somehow he's still dining out on one underdog victory with the FA Cup with Wigan. He still got them relegated a week later. He goes to Everton and finishes 5th with David Moyes' team before dragging them back down to midtable, because his teams can't defend. I do not know how he got the Belgium job. Their squad was one of the favourites, if not the favourites for World Cup '18. They won an extremely easy group, only just managed to squeeze past Japan (having gone 2-0 down), and yes they beat a fairly poor Brazil team in probably their only good performance of the competition. I remember him frequently playing players out of position in that World Cup, and the Brazil game was the only one where he got it right. 

I will admit now that I thought he was in charge for Euro 16, but he wasn't, he was appointed just after that. But all I see with all of his teams is reckless abandon. Let's play a quirky formation and attack, attack, to try and mask the fact that I have no idea how to organise a defence. That is the LAST thing Spurs need right now.


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 36771

A few missing out - Ings , Bamford , Dier

So which 7 miss out

Ramsdale
Godfrey or White ( depending on Maguire fitness)
TAA or Trippier
Ward Prowse
Saka
Watkins
		
Click to expand...

Is Pope injured? Ramsdale absolutely has to be cut, he's a terrible keeper.
Yes either White, Godfrey or Coady I suppose will be cut if Maguire is fit. I think he may keep all 3 right backs though. Maybe he'll cut two of the aforementioned centre backs as that still leaves you with 4 + Walker.
I can't see Saka making the final cut. Possibly not Greenwood either? Could be a toss-up between Greenwood & Watkins, or maybe both of them being cut.

EDIT: I only just noticed Reece James in there. I'd cut him personally.


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## GB72 (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Is Pope injured? Ramsdale absolutely has to be cut, he's a terrible keeper.
Yes either White, Godfrey or Coady I suppose will be cut if Maguire is fit. I think he may keep all 3 right backs though. Maybe he'll cut two of the aforementioned centre backs as that still leaves you with 4 + Walker.
I can't see Saka making the final cut. Possibly not Greenwood either? Could be a toss-up between Greenwood & Watkins, or maybe both of them being cut.

EDIT: I only just noticed Reece James in there. I'd cut him personally.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, Pope is injured.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Somehow he's still dining out on one underdog victory with the FA Cup with Wigan. He still got them relegated a week later. He goes to Everton and finishes 5th with David Moyes' team before dragging them back down to midtable, because his teams can't defend. I do not know how he got the Belgium job. Their squad was one of the favourites, if not the favourites for World Cup '18. They won an extremely easy group, only just managed to squeeze past Japan (having gone 2-0 down), and yes they beat a fairly poor Brazil team in probably their only good performance of the competition. I remember him frequently playing players out of position in that World Cup, and the Brazil game was the only one where he got it right.

I will admit now that I thought he was in charge for Euro 16, but he wasn't, he was appointed just after that. But all I see with all of his teams is reckless abandon. Let's play a quirky formation and attack, attack, to try and mask the fact that I have no idea how to organise a defence. That is the LAST thing Spurs need right now.
		
Click to expand...

Odds had them around 5/6th favourites for the World Cup

It was him managing them that improved them from Euro 2016 to being number one ranked team - 4 defeats in 50 plus games.

He is dining out on doing a very good job with Belgium 

I’m not sure what level of manager you expect Spurs to be going for but right now it’s not going to be the top level - the likes of Martinez , Rangnick are prob the level Spurs are at - unless you think there are others to look at


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 36771

A few missing out - Ings , Bamford , Dier

So which 7 miss out

Ramsdale
Godfrey or White ( depending on Maguire fitness) 
TAA or Trippier
Ward Prowse
Saka 
Watkins
		
Click to expand...


Pick your best XI, pick a reserve for each slot then one extra keeper, defender, midfielder, attacker

What I would pick and Southgate will pick are poles apart. Dont think youre far off but dont see him not taking Trippier (will leave James or TAA out). Think he may take Ward Prowse too, probably instead of Bellingham


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Is Pope injured? Ramsdale absolutely has to be cut, he's a terrible keeper.
Yes either White, Godfrey or Coady I suppose will be cut if Maguire is fit. I think he may keep all 3 right backs though. Maybe he'll cut two of the aforementioned centre backs as that still leaves you with 4 + Walker.
I can't see Saka making the final cut. Possibly not Greenwood either? Could be a toss-up between Greenwood & Watkins, or maybe both of them being cut.

EDIT: I only just noticed Reece James in there. I'd cut him personally.
		
Click to expand...


Pope was due knee surgery I think


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## Papas1982 (May 25, 2021)

If the World Cup was anything to go by then JWP should be a shoe in. We were useless except set plays and he’s better than anyone else in that squad for set plays.


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

No Dier a decent start


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Odds had them around 5/6th favourites for the World Cup

It was him managing them that improved them from Euro 2016 to being number one ranked team - 4 defeats in 50 plus games.

He is dining out on doing a very good job with Belgium

I’m not sure what level of manager you expect Spurs to be going for but right now it’s not going to be the top level - the likes of Martinez , Rangnick are prob the level Spurs are at - unless you think there are others to look at
		
Click to expand...

The world rankings are meaningless. And he has a world class team, you would expect them to go undefeated against the likes of Iceland, Cyprus, Tunisia, etc. Honestly, their team when he joined them had Courtois, Kompany, Alderweireld, Dembele, De Bruyne, Hazard, Lukaku, Meunier, unreal team!

Edit: It's nothing to do with levels, I want a manager who can organise a defence since our defence is terrible. Martinez is not the man for that.


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## GB72 (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Odds had them around 5/6th favourites for the World Cup

It was him managing them that improved them from Euro 2016 to being number one ranked team - 4 defeats in 50 plus games.

He is dining out on doing a very good job with Belgium

I’m not sure what level of manager you expect Spurs to be going for but right now it’s not going to be the top level - the likes of Martinez , Rangnick are prob the level Spurs are at - unless you think there are others to look at
		
Click to expand...

May not be what people want to hear but there is something in the back of my mind that can see Spurs making a move for Southgate after the Euros.


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

GB72 said:



			May not be what people want to hear but there is something in the back of my mind that can see Spurs making a move for Southgate after the Euros.
		
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as an arsenal fan its exactly what id like to hear


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## Beezerk (May 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Think he may take Ward Prowse too, probably instead of Bellingham
		
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I hope you're wrong but it would prove just how backward our managers are at going forward. In Bellingham you have what looks like one of the best young up and coming midfielders in Europe, but instead of taking him along they choose someone who will have zero impact on a game and possibly won't even play. 
Same with Lingard, done nothing for England and would he a huge backwards step if he were to go.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I hope you're wrong but it would prove just how backward our managers are at going forward. In Bellingham you have what looks like one of the best young up and coming midfielders in Europe, but instead of taking him along they choose someone who will have zero impact on a game and possibly won't even play.
Same with Lingard, done nothing for England and would he a huge backwards step if he were to go.
		
Click to expand...

That’s spot on - Bellingham is excellent and he is doing it for his club and in the CL - i was amazed at how good he is , I would even start him alongside Henderson ( if he is fit ) 

Lingard should never go ahead of the likes of Grealish etc


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I hope you're wrong but it would prove just how backward our managers are at going forward. In Bellingham you have what looks like one of the best young up and coming midfielders in Europe, but instead of taking him along they choose someone who will have zero impact on a game and possibly won't even play.
Same with Lingard, done nothing for England and would he a huge backwards step if he were to go.
		
Click to expand...

But nobody can take a decent set piece for us, that's why we need JWP. We get a free kick in the 85th minute, bring him on to do a Beckham and bury it.


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## Beezerk (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s spot on - Bellingham is excellent and he is doing it for his club and in the CL - i was amazed at how good he is , I would even start him alongside Henderson ( if he is fit ) 

Lingard should never go ahead of the likes of Grealish etc
		
Click to expand...

Yep, I'd have Bellingham in from the start, I think he's that good and he's been doing it all season for a top club. May be a touch off for some lol but he reminds me of a young Steve Gerrard.


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But nobody can take a decent set piece for us, that's why we need JWP. We get a free kick in the 85th minute, bring him on to do a Beckham and bury it.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting stat that JWP scored the most free kicks (4) in the prem league this season. The second highest scored one (thats right Willian and Xhaka came joint second  🤣🤣🤣🤣 )Dying breed scoring from a free kick


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## Beezerk (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But nobody can take a decent set piece for us, that's why we need JWP. We get a free kick in the 85th minute, bring him on to do a Beckham and bury it.
		
Click to expand...

 We have Trippier for that 😅


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

It's coming home


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Yep, I'd have Bellingham in from the start, I think he's that good and he's been doing it all season for a top club. May be a touch off for some lol but he reminds me of a young Steve Gerrard.
		
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You can seem why there would be a comparison - he is physically strong as well , proper unit with superb ability on the ball.   He is imo going to be a Wildcard and have a great impact if Southgate is brave enough to pick him


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			Interesting stat that JWP scored the most free kicks (4) in the prem league this season. The second highest scored one (thats right Willian and Xhaka came joint second  🤣🤣🤣🤣 )Dying breed scoring from a free kick
		
Click to expand...

He's definitely one of the best in the world at free kicks. A free kick with him around is almost like giving away a penalty.



Beezerk said:



			We have Trippier for that 😅
		
Click to expand...

Scored about one in his life hasn't he?


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			It's coming home
		
Click to expand...


cant see it, hope im wrong!


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			It's coming home
		
Click to expand...

What, the squad? After a week? Probably..


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## Beezerk (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Scored about one in his life hasn't he?
		
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A bit like that Brazilian fella who still dines out on one freaky free kick 😅


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## fundy (May 25, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			A bit like that Brazilian fella who still dines out on one freaky free kick 😅
		
Click to expand...

David Luiz


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What, the squad? After a week? Probably..
		
Click to expand...




fundy said:



			cant see it, hope im wrong!
		
Click to expand...

GOT style shame walk for you two behind the victory parade bus!


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## Pin-seeker (May 25, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Scored the weekend and got the golden boot, adds £20 million

Click to expand...

Oh yeah silly me 🤦‍♂️😂😂


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## ColchesterFC (May 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What, the squad? After a week? Probably..
		
Click to expand...

Well the good news is that all our games are in England so at least the FA will save some money on flights home when we get knocked out in the first knock out round.


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2021)

4 players in that squad to leave out 

Defo leave out ramsdale. Awful keeper 

Ben White 

Reece James 

One of the attackers is only one left ...

But who? Saka can play so many positions but who does he knock out


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## BiMGuy (May 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			4 players in that squad to leave out 

Defo leave out ramsdale. Awful keeper 

Ben White 

Reece James 

One of the attackers is only one left ...

But who? Saka can play so many positions but who does he knock out
		
Click to expand...

Agree with Ramsdale
I'd take the other two over TAA and Mings without hesitation.


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			4 players in that squad to leave out

Defo leave out ramsdale. Awful keeper

Ben White

Reece James

One of the attackers is only one left ...

But who? Saka can play so many positions but who does he knock out
		
Click to expand...

I don't think Saka being versatile is enough of a plus for him, because we already have options in the positions he plays. e.g. we have two other left backs already, and about 5 wingers, so he doesn't really give us anything we need.

I would cut Ramsdale, two centre backs (Godfrey & White if Maguire is fit), James, Saka, Watkins, and Phillips if Hendo is fit - if not then Lingard.


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## Slime (May 25, 2021)

I'm staggered Wan-Bissaka isn't in the squad. He's the best defensive right back we have.
I'd also, maybe, have Bamford in too.


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## Liverbirdie (May 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s spot on - Bellingham is excellent and he is doing it for his club and in the CL - i was amazed at how good he is , I would even start him alongside Henderson ( if he is fit )

Lingard should never go ahead of the likes of Grealish etc
		
Click to expand...

Why not, Lingard has been a very effective player recently with end product, better than the foul-buying, fancy Dan.


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## Kellfire (May 26, 2021)

The press seem to think TAA will be playing in midfield for the Euros. How very England to try and shoehorn players into the team instead of picking those who have earned their place. 

Trippier is the form right back and should get the start. He’s been vital for Atletico and had a nice little break during the season.


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## ColchesterFC (May 26, 2021)

Valmeria of Latvia, Maribor of Sweden and Honka of Finland are some of the clubs that Tottenham could face in the Europa Conference League.

If you've not heard of them before, they're a small team that play in North London.



(Courtesy of Paul Moore on Twitter - @mooros69)


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Valmeria of Latvia, Maribor of Sweden and Honka of Finland are some of the clubs that Tottenham could face in the Europa Conference League.

If you've not heard of them before, they're a small team that play in North London.



(Courtesy of Paul Moore on Twitter - @mooros69)
		
Click to expand...

More like courtesy of the 1980s, that joke is older than time.


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## pauljames87 (May 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			More like courtesy of the 1980s, that joke is older than time.
		
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Still funny and correct tho 😃


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## Tashyboy (May 26, 2021)

spurs could be in a good position re managers, or choice of. Poch is said to be open for a return, Lowe of Germany is moving on,  Conte at Inter is said to be going in a couple of days. The french guy ( Galtier) who won the league has left. Chuck in Martinez and Big Sam and Spurs Could be spoilt for choice.


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## Slime (May 26, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			The press seem to think TAA will be playing in midfield for the Euros. *How very England to try and shoehorn players into the team instead of picking those who have earned their place.*

Trippier is the form right back and should get the start. He’s been vital for Atletico and had a nice little break during the season.
		
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Or .................................. how very 'press' to suggest that 'what they seem to think' is, indeed, fact.


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



*Chuck in* Martinez and Big Sam and Spurs Could be spoilt for choice.
		
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By which you mean chuck them in the bin I hope.


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			The press seem to think TAA will be playing in midfield for the Euros. How very England to try and shoehorn players into the team instead of picking those who have earned their place.

Trippier is the form right back and should get the start. He’s been vital for Atletico and had a nice little break during the season.
		
Click to expand...




Slime said:



			Or .................................. how very 'press' to suggest that 'what they seem to think' is, indeed, fact.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah it sounds like wild speculation to me. From what's been said so far it sounds more likely that he won't pick Trent at all.


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## Bdill93 (May 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm staggered Wan-Bissaka isn't in the squad. He's the best defensive right back we have.
I'd also, maybe, have Bamford in too.
		
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Just dont need a pure defensive RB, its not how we play. I do agree hes the best defender, but playing with Wing backs there are better options - in abundance! 

He could declare and go back to representing Congo if hes snubbed much longer though!


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## Tashyboy (May 26, 2021)

However the golden waist coated one picks his team. There is an Abundance of skilfull energy in that squad. The best players need putting in the best position. Let the kids off the leash to express themselves. To play four at the back with 2 holding midfielders would be nothing short of criminal. Something he has done before.


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## ColchesterFC (May 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			However the golden waist coated one picks his team. There is an Abundance of skilfull energy in that squad. The best players need putting in the best position. Let the kids off the leash to express themselves.* To play four at the back with 2 holding midfielders would be nothing short of criminal.* Something he has done before.
		
Click to expand...

So what's it going to be when he plays 5 at the back with 2 holding midfielders?


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## clubchamp98 (May 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So what's it going to be when he plays 5 at the back with 2 holding midfielders?
		
Click to expand...

Suicide.
To win we need to score goals..


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## Tashyboy (May 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So what's it going to be when he plays 5 at the back with 2 holding midfielders?
		
Click to expand...

Do we have 5 decent defenders now Dier is not going  🤔😆


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So what's it going to be when he plays 5 at the back with 2 holding midfielders?
		
Click to expand...

Sad but I'm pretty sure that will be the case. I feel like it'll Walker-Maguire-Stones, with Trippier right wing back and maybe Shaw on the left. Rice and Henderson in the middle with Mount, and then Kane and Sterling front two. Wouldn't be my choice at all but I wouldn't be surprised if he does that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 26, 2021)

How each defender Gareth Southgate picked has performed this season:


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How each defender Gareth Southgate picked has performed this season:
View attachment 36790

Click to expand...

I don't really see the point of including wing backs with the centre backs. I put something together on the centre backs alone - left Ben White off since it only let me put 5 players and I feel he'll be the first cut anyway.




This to me suggests Coady should be the next one who doesn't make it (if Maguire is fit), since he isn't really close to leading in any category. Godfrey should be fairly comfortable in a back three as well, since he's played full back as much as he has centre back.


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## Beezerk (May 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Sad but I'm pretty sure that will be the case. I feel like it'll Walker-Maguire-Stones, with Trippier right wing back and maybe Shaw on the left. Rice and Henderson in the middle with Mount, and then Kane and Sterling front two. Wouldn't be my choice at all but I wouldn't be surprised if he does that.
		
Click to expand...

No Foden?
Sterling should he nowhere near the starting 11 imo.


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## Bdill93 (May 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't really see the point of including wing backs with the centre backs. I put something together on the centre backs alone - left Ben White off since it only let me put 5 players and I feel he'll be the first cut anyway.

View attachment 36791


This to me suggests Coady should be the next one who doesn't make it (if Maguire is fit), since he isn't really close to leading in any category. Godfrey should be fairly comfortable in a back three as well, since he's played full back as much as he has centre back.
		
Click to expand...

Makes Mings look half decent!


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			No Foden?
Sterling should he nowhere near the starting 11 imo.
		
Click to expand...

I said it wouldn't be my choice! I think my preferred line-up would be quite different to Southgate's. I'd be playing something like this:
D.Hendo
Trent - Maguire - Stones - Shaw
J.Hendo - Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​
Rice in for Mount against the best teams for more defensive cover. Or in for J.Hendo if he's not fit. I would start Sterling the first game, but if he's poor you have Rashford or Sancho to take his place.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't really see the point of including wing backs with the centre backs. I put something together on the centre backs alone - left Ben White off since it only let me put 5 players and I feel he'll be the first cut anyway.

View attachment 36791


This to me suggests Coady should be the next one who doesn't make it (if Maguire is fit), since he isn't really close to leading in any category. Godfrey should be fairly comfortable in a back three as well, since he's played full back as much as he has centre back.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we’re back to how we see Southgate setting up, regardless of 4 or 5 at the back the first name for me is still TAA, the other positions we have a few more options, but none at his level.


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Makes Mings look half decent!
		
Click to expand...

In fairness, he bosses the clearances as he is a bit of a hoof merchant. It's also impacted by the club's ethos I suppose, not many clearances for Stones for example, but he'll be instructed to keep possession rather than hoof it out. Mings obviously wins a lot of aerial duels as well since he's about 7 foot 2.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 26, 2021)

I just hope Jordan Henderson is fit, fully fit he’d start every game. Don’t like the idea of taking players not fully recovered from a long lay off.


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## Bdill93 (May 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			In fairness, he bosses the clearances as he is a bit of a hoof merchant. It's also impacted by the club's ethos I suppose, not many clearances for Stones for example, but he'll be instructed to keep possession rather than hoof it out. Mings obviously wins a lot of aerial duels as well since he's about 7 foot 2.
		
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Half those hoofs are trying to play a hero ball.... probably just dont pay off and go down as a clearance


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## Beezerk (May 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I said it wouldn't be my choice! I think my preferred line-up would be quite different to Southgate's. I'd be playing something like this:
D.Hendo
Trent - Maguire - Stones - Shaw
Mount - J.Hendo
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​
Rice in for Mount against the best teams for more defensive cover. Or in for J.Hendo if he's not fit. I would start Sterling the first game, but if he's poor you have Rashford or Sancho to take his place.
		
Click to expand...

Rashford or Sancho over Sterling all day for me. Sterling cuts inside every time he gets the ball which has been sussed by opposition defenders now.


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't really see the point of including wing backs with the centre backs. I put something together on the centre backs alone - left Ben White off since it only let me put 5 players and I feel he'll be the first cut anyway.

View attachment 36791


This to me suggests Coady should be the next one who doesn't make it (if Maguire is fit), since he isn't really close to leading in any category. Godfrey should be fairly comfortable in a back three as well, since he's played full back as much as he has centre back.
		
Click to expand...

Big data move over, theres a new analyst in town


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Rashford or Sancho over Sterling all day for me. Sterling cuts inside every time he gets the ball which has been sussed by opposition defenders now.
		
Click to expand...

I think he's top drawer when on form, with his movement, it's just the last three months he hasn't been at his best. As I say, at least that's an area where we do have options.


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

Sterling be nowhere near the first xi for me, but fully expect him to start most of the games

Has to be a big worry that a lot of our players wont fit into the structure Southgate wants to use (now where have I seen this lately.......)


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## Liverbirdie (May 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Suicide.
To win we need to score goals..
		
Click to expand...

5 at the back plus 2 x holders, could be, but not necessarily 4 at the back with 2 x holders.

A 4-2-3-1 with 4 offensive players, plus attacking full-backs could be very attack minded.

A team with TAA, Chilwell, Kane, Sterling, Sancho and ,say Foden, in it would be very hard to stop, but also has a solid base. Like everything else, if you have the personnel and ethos to suit, can work very well.


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			5 at the back plus 2 x holders, could be, but not necessarily 4 at the back with 2 x holders.

A 4-2-3-1 with 4 offensive players, plus attacking full-backs could be very attack minded.

A team with TAA, Chilwell, Kane, Sterling, Sancho and ,say Foden, in it would be very hard to stop, but also has a solid base. Like everything else, if you have the personnel and ethos to suit, can work very well.
		
Click to expand...


not a cat in hells chance he picks a back 4 with TAA and Chilwell!!!!


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## clubchamp98 (May 26, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			5 at the back plus 2 x holders, could be, but not necessarily 4 at the back with 2 x holders.

A 4-2-3-1 with 4 offensive players, plus attacking full-backs could be very attack minded.

A team with TAA, Chilwell, Kane, Sterling, Sancho and ,say Foden, in it would be very hard to stop, but also has a solid base. Like everything else, if you have the personnel and ethos to suit, can work very well.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I think most people who don’t like Trent as a defender don’t take into account a lot of teams just don’t come out against Liverpool.
This leaves his defending “ stats” very skewed.
As he spends most of his time in the ops half.

The biggest threat from the England young lads is going forward.
We must use them ,even if it dosnt work this time they will gain vital experience for the World Cup.

Stats for club football really depends what team you are playing for.
I would take Wan Bissaka though to cover any team playing a winger and having a go at us down the left .


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## clubchamp98 (May 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			not a cat in hells chance he picks a back 4 with TAA and Chilwell!!!!
		
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Two of the top four teams in the PL play this way though.
What we have been doing hasn’t won anything since 66.

if we had Pep as manager I would think we had a great chance.
Southgate goes out not to get beat that’s a different mindset imo.


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Two of the top four teams in the PL play this way though.
What we have been doing hasn’t won anything since 66.
		
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Dont disagree, but im not picking the side Southgate is


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## clubchamp98 (May 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Dont disagree, but im not picking the side Southgate is
		
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Yes as I see it he’s the problem.
Not the players we have them to win imo,
It’s just how they are sent out to play.


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## Bdill93 (May 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Two of the top four teams in the PL play this way though.
What we have been doing hasn’t won anything since 66.

if we had Pep as manager I would think we had a great chance.
Southgate goes out not to get beat that’s a different mindset imo.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, I'd start a back 4 - one solid CDM (Rice) - 5 - 1 (Kane).


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## jim8flog (May 26, 2021)

OMG
Another thread veering off track to the title.


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## Beezerk (May 26, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			OMG
Another thread veering off track to the title.
		
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Maybe it should just be called football chit chat rather than making it exclusive for fans of Prem teams 👀


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## clubchamp98 (May 26, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Agreed, I'd start a back 4 - one solid CDM (Rice) - 5 - 1 (Kane).
		
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Yes I honestly belive we have the players.
Just by this discussion shows we are not convinced by Southgate.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Two of the top four teams in the PL play this way though.
What we have been doing hasn’t won anything since 66.

if we had Pep as manager I would think we had a great chance.
Southgate goes out not to get beat that’s a different mindset imo.
		
Click to expand...

what level of CB do those teams have ?

Southgate is a negative mindset manager 

For me the best England team for the Euros would be ( from the current squad )

Henderson

TAA
Stones
Godfrey 
Shaw

Henderson
Bellingham
Mount

Foden
Kane
Sancho 

That’s a team that imo has one issue - the CB’s but Henderson will provide the cover , it’s full of pace and attacking quality

What Southgate will go with is imo

Pickford 

Trippier
Walker
Stones
Maguire
Chilwell/Shaw

Henderson
Rice

Sterling 
Mount/Sancho
Kane

He will set up the team first and foremost not to lose , and rely on three players to score and create 

It’s a team that will go through the group but then have to face either France, Germany or Portugal and that’s where the road will end imo


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Maybe it should just be called football chit chat rather than making it exclusive for fans of Prem teams 👀
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't know why we don't just rename it Football Chat. Then we also wouldn't need a new one every season either. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edit: This is still an improvement on when it used to be called "And They're Off" and I thought it was a horse-racing thread for six months.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Maybe it should just be called football chit chat rather than making it exclusive for fans of Prem teams 👀
		
Click to expand...

If we start hearing about minority Scottish teams that barely anyone cares about on this thread we will all blame you


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## rudebhoy (May 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If we start hearing about minority Scottish teams that barely anyone cares about on this thread we will all blame you 

Click to expand...

Since when was Newcastle in Scotland?


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

Look what youve done now, will be fans of QPR, Watford, Wycombe and all sorts in here now


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## pauljames87 (May 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Look what youve done now, will be fans of QPR, Watford, Wycombe and all sorts in here now 

Click to expand...

Highest league in England plus Internationals and European football only


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## Tashyboy (May 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Highest league in England plus Internationals and European football only
		
Click to expand...

What about Laydeeeeeees football. 🤔


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Look what youve done now, will be fans of QPR, Watford, Wycombe and all sorts in here now 

Click to expand...

Oh yeah good point. Change it back.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			What about Laydeeeeeees football. 🤔
		
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Post away Tash. Not sure I've ever seen a post regarding ladies football on here but if you want to start things off then crack on  (I wouldn't get overly optimistic about the chances of pages of chat mind )


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## 4LEX (May 26, 2021)

I'm a believer that Southgate is a chancer and got lucky in Russa. He actually bottled the best chance England will ever have to win a World Cup and treated it like a huge success.

He's now in a really tough position because he doesn't know his best keeper, best defence or best midfield. Oly Harry Kane is the stand out pick. Theres so much quality in midfield especially you could pick two entire diffferent midfields and the quality would be the same.

My first choice...

Henderson

AWB
Maguire
Stones
Shaw

Rice
Foden
Mount

Rashford
Kane
Sancho

Two more defensive full backs compared to TAA and Chilwell that allows a more attacking midfield. All three are great on the ball and will help dominate possession and create chances. The front three speak for themselves.

I expect Southgate to line up with more attacking full backs but a much more negative midfield. He'll then have Sterling on the left, Kane in the middle and Foden on the right. Should be good enough for semi finals minimum whatever though, the lack fo quality in the other top nations needs to be exploited. France and Begium the ones to worry about.


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## Crazyface (May 26, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I'm a believer that Southgate is a chancer and got lucky in Russa. He actually bottled the best chance England will ever have to win a World Cup and treated it like a huge success.

He's now in a really tough position because he doesn't know his best keeper, best defence or best midfield. Oly Harry Kane is the stand out pick. Theres so much quality in midfield especially you could pick two entire diffferent midfields and the quality would be the same.

My first choice...

Henderson

AWB
Maguire
Stones
Shaw

Rice
Foden
Mount

Rashford
Kane
Sancho

Two more defensive full backs compared to TAA and Chilwell that allows a more attacking midfield. All three are great on the ball and will help dominate possession and create chances. The front three speak for themselves.

I expect Southgate to line up with more attacking full backs but a much more negative midfield. He'll then have Sterling on the left, Kane in the middle and Foden on the right. Should be good enough for semi finals minimum whatever though, the lack fo quality in the other top nations needs to be exploited. France and Begium the ones to worry about.
		
Click to expand...

With Southgate in charge we'll be out at the group stage. Haven't we got to play Scotland in the group stage? and Croatia! Forget it. We're out!


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I'm a believer that Southgate is a chancer and got lucky in Russa. He actually bottled the best chance England will ever have to win a World Cup and treated it like a huge success.

He's now in a really tough position because he doesn't know his best keeper, best defence or best midfield. Oly Harry Kane is the stand out pick. Theres so much quality in midfield especially you could pick two entire diffferent midfields and the quality would be the same.

My first choice...

Henderson

AWB
Maguire
Stones
Shaw

Rice
Foden
Mount

Rashford
Kane
Sancho

Two more defensive full backs compared to TAA and Chilwell that allows a more attacking midfield. All three are great on the ball and will help dominate possession and create chances. The front three speak for themselves.

I expect Southgate to line up with more attacking full backs but a much more negative midfield. He'll then have Sterling on the left, Kane in the middle and Foden on the right. Should be good enough for semi finals minimum whatever though, the lack fo quality in the other top nations needs to be exploited. France and Begium the ones to worry about.
		
Click to expand...


You really dont rate Ole do you lol, but expect Southgate to get more from them even tho hes a chancer


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## Tashyboy (May 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			You really dont rate Ole do you lol, but expect Southgate to get more from them even tho hes a chancer 

Click to expand...

Al put me cards on the Table, I don’t rate Ole or Southgate. Both have a good set of players. Both underachieve with them. The players are cartying there managers to some kind of acceptable success.
That said I don’t blame either manager for being rammel. I blame both the FA and the Man Utd board for putting both managers in positions they should not be holding.
That said, as a Manc. Best of luck to our Salford neighbours to ignite.


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## Slime (May 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Al put me cards on the Table, I don’t rate Ole or Southgate. Both have a good set of players. *Both underachieve with them. *The players are cartying there managers to some kind of acceptable success.
That said I don’t blame either manager for being rammel. I blame both the FA and the Man Utd board for putting both managers in positions they should not be holding.
That said, as a Manc. Best of luck to our Salford neighbours to ignite.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think Utd are under achieving.
In fact, most people thought United wouldn't make top four, let alone second.


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## Tashyboy (May 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			I don't think Utd are under achieving.
In fact, most people thought United wouldn't make top four, let alone second.
		
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Not tash, for some reason Ole could not get them playing for 90 minutes


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## williamalex1 (May 26, 2021)

Crazyface said:



			With Southgate in charge we'll be out at the group stage. Haven't we got to play Scotland in the group stage? and Croatia! Forget it. We're out!
		
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 if only,  the good news is, it'll probably be on council telly


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## Slime (May 26, 2021)

Lindelof.


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## ColchesterFC (May 26, 2021)

Poor goal to concede. Even my son's U12 team are told not to let the ball bounce in the box.


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## Slime (May 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Poor goal to concede. Even my son's U12 team are told not to let the ball bounce in the box.
		
Click to expand...

They probably have players quicker than Lindelof!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2021)

Scholes and Ferdinand were class players - but shocking pundits 🤦‍♂️


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## ColchesterFC (May 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Scholes and Ferdinand were class players - but shocking pundits 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like I'm fortunate watching it in a hotel near Schiphol. Got the Dutch commentary on so don't understand a word they're saying.


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## ColchesterFC (May 26, 2021)

Was that not a penalty for Man U? Only got one replay from one angle but it looked like the Villareal defender kicked the United attacker.


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## Slime (May 26, 2021)

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM !


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## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2021)

Did the commentator really just say that Fernandes the most influential signing for UTD since Cantona 😲😲


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## Dando (May 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did the commentator really just say that Fernandes the most influential signing for UTD since Cantona 😲😲
		
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Yes he did! 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## ColchesterFC (May 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did the commentator really just say that Fernandes the most influential signing for UTD since Cantona 😲😲
		
Click to expand...

I've got no idea. To me it sounded like "Hurdy gurdy hurdy gurdy hurdy" but I'm not 100% certain.


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## BiMGuy (May 26, 2021)

Can somebody please explain why people rate Rashford? I can't remember ever seeing him do anything particularly special. He's been awful so far in this game.

Obviously he will now score a worldie of a winner.


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Can somebody please explain why people rate Rashford? I can't remember ever seeing him do anything particularly special. He's been awful so far in this game.

Obviously he will now score a worldie of a winner.
		
Click to expand...


hes been very poor tonight, utterly amazed they took Greenwood off instead of him. plenty of the united side look knackered, amazed hes not getting more fresh legs on


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## Slime (May 26, 2021)

He's brought on his penalty takers.
Brave move.


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## Slime (May 26, 2021)

Bugger.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2021)

Well that was a heck of a penalty shootout. Some pure quailty penalties-


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

Good Ebening, just Arsenal he couldnt win this with lol


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## Slime (May 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that was a heck of a penalty shootout. Some pure quailty penalties-
		
Click to expand...

Well, 21 quality penalties!


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that was a heck of a penalty shootout. Some pure quailty penalties-
		
Click to expand...

some great pens but some horrid goal keeping too, neither looked like saving one


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## Tashyboy (May 26, 2021)

One of the best penalty comps Ave seen.If that was City gone to penalties, we would been in bed 20 minutes ago.
commiserations Utd.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			Well, 21 quality penalties!
		
Click to expand...

Ah well 😁 

Ole taking the bus back to the depot 😉


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

Wow, just seen a stat that DDG has now saved none of his last 35 pens at him


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## BiMGuy (May 26, 2021)

Some great pens there. Especially from those who would never have expected to take one.

Da Gea 😂😂


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## Liverbirdie (May 26, 2021)

Rigsby's "cat" did well for him in the end.


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## fundy (May 26, 2021)

0.4% chance of the first 21 pens being scored on all accounts


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## Piece (May 26, 2021)

Penalty shootout was far more entertaining that the 120 mins before it.

De Gea is a modern day Peter Shilton in that he never looks like he's going to save a pen.


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

That penalty shootout was incredible. One of the best I've ever seen. Really poor from De Gea though, save none of 11 and then miss the crucial one. 😂 In fairness both keepers should have saved probably two each, but otherwise most of the penalties were excellently taken. My personal favourites were Coquelin and Rulli the keeper smashing a rocket top bins! You don't save those.


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## IainP (May 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Wow, just seen a stat that DDG has now saved none of his last 35 pens at him 

Click to expand...

On radio they were a bit surprised the sub GK wasn't brought on - very good pen save record apparently


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## BiMGuy (May 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That penalty shootout was incredible. One of the best I've ever seen. Really poor from De Gea though, save none of 11 and then miss the crucial one. 😂 In fairness both keepers should have saved probably two each, but otherwise most of the penalties were excellently taken. My personal favourites were Coquelin and Rulli the keeper smashing a rocket top bins! You don't save those.
		
Click to expand...

De Gea never looked like scoring. He knew he'd missed before taking it.

Surely as a keeper, just blast it. Better to miss that way than meekly side footing it towards the corner after a silly run up.


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## Orikoru (May 26, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			De Gea never looked like scoring. He knew he'd missed before taking it.

Surely as a keeper, just blast it. Better to miss that way than meekly side footing it towards the corner after a silly run up.
		
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Well the other keeper nailed his.

Honestly, they must thinking now that it's time to pack De Gea back off to Spain. He's not been at his best for several years now, Henderson must be number one next season.


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## BiMGuy (May 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well the other keeper nailed his.

Honestly, they must thinking now that it's time to pack De Gea back off to Spain. He's not been at his best for several years now, Henderson must be number one next season.
		
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The other keeper looked confident though.

I think Henderson is now No1 at ManU. In my opinion he's a much better keeper.


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## Tashyboy (May 27, 2021)

IainP said:



			On radio they were a bit surprised the sub GK wasn't brought on - very good pen save record apparently
		
Click to expand...

In a day and age where stats etc are everything, it was obvious both teams had done there homework re who, what and where there going. Not subbing De Gea was a Major blunder. That said I was at Wembley a couple of years ago when Kepa refused to come off for Willy Caballero who was an excellent penalty saver.
apparently Ederson has said if City go to penalties has sad he is taking the Fifth penalty


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## Fade and Die (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Wow, just seen a stat that DDG has now saved none of his last 35 pens at him 

Click to expand...

If he has stood still last night he would have saved a couple as 2 of them went straight up the middle! 

Can’t really blame De Gea though when Rashford could have won the game in the 2nd half but somehow side footed it wide of an open goal. 
And has Pogba ever played worse?


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## pauljames87 (May 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If he has stood still last night he would have saved a couple as 2 of them went straight up the middle!

Can’t really blame De Gea though when Rashford could have won the game in the 2nd half but somehow side footed it wide of an open goal.
And has Pogba ever played worse?
		
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Real question is has pogba ever turned up full stop 🤣


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## Tashyboy (May 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Real question is has pogba ever turned up full stop 🤣
		
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don’t want to kick Utd when there down but I did say they have not turned up for some games. Personally, with some of the managers that are now available. I would thank Ole and move him on. 4 semi final defeats and a final loss is not Utds standard under Ole.


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## SteveW86 (May 27, 2021)

How would Conte do at UTD?


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## Orikoru (May 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			In a day and age where stats etc are everything, it was obvious both teams had done there homework re who, what and where there going. Not subbing De Gea was a Major blunder. That said I was at Wembley a couple of years ago when Kepa refused to come off for Willy Caballero who was an excellent penalty saver.
apparently *Ederson has said if City go to penalties has sad he is taking the Fifth penalty*

Click to expand...

He's probably the best penalty taker at the club. Not even joking, I've seen one he took before where he blasted it top corner, while the rest of your squad seems to struggle from the spot.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

So is now the time to say thanks and goodbye to OGS ?

There are some top proven manager available as well

OGS has spent a fair bit , but has failed at a number of semi finals now and also a final 

They looked lost last night , their “big” players didn’t turn up - Fernandes, Pogba , Rashford missing - and then he still didn’t make any changes until the very last minute 

He did well steadying the ship when Mourinho left but he surely isn’t at the level that UTD fans want or need to challenge the top teams for the big trophies.


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## Orikoru (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So is now the time to say thanks and goodbye to OGS ?

There are some top proven manager available as well

OGS has spent a fair bit , but has failed at a number of semi finals now and also a final

They looked lost last night , their “big” players didn’t turn up - Fernandes, Pogba , Rashford missing - and then he still didn’t make any changes until the very last minute

He did well steadying the ship when Mourinho left but he surely isn’t at the level that UTD fans want or need to challenge the top teams for the big trophies.
		
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Yeah, you almost feel that 2nd place and a cup final is despite his management rather than because of it. I think they brought in a couple of top players in Bruno and Cavani, which has papered over the cracks, and those two have scored a lot of key goals to salvage them points.


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## Bdill93 (May 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, you almost feel that 2nd place and a cup final is despite his management rather than because of it. I think they brought in a couple of top players in Bruno and Cavani, which has papered over the cracks, and those two have scored a lot of key goals to salvage them points.
		
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I grew up knowing united to just go out and buy the biggest and best players. Never held on to dead wood.

The current united is the polar opposite. They need a massive revamp, but I think the owners are whats holding them back. Well, them and Ed Woodward - that guy just doesnt understand football.


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## Orikoru (May 27, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I grew up knowing united to just go out and buy the biggest and best players. Never held on to dead wood.

The current united is the polar opposite. They need a massive revamp, but I think the owners are whats holding them back. Well, them and Ed Woodward - that guy just doesnt understand football.
		
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Yeah, Owen Hargreaves said it last night and I think he was right - they need three top players to compete. A centre back, a central midfielder, and a right winger (assuming Greenwood will be used more as a striker). Top players who will actually start. Not throwing money at someone like Van de Beek and then he can't even get in the side.


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## IanM (May 27, 2021)

Sports Direct report a big spike in on-line sales of Man City shirts in the south of England last night around 11pm.  Marketing team are investigating.


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## ColchesterFC (May 27, 2021)

If you add Varane, Sancho and Kane/Haaland to that United team then you've got, or are very close to getting, a team that can challenge for the title and the CL. Having said that you're probably looking at £250 million to get those three in and possibly still needing a centre mid on top. 

I have very deliberately put challenge rather than win because with Liverpool seemingly getting Konate to partner a hopefully fit again Van Dijk they should be back in the mix next year with Henderson, Fabinho and Thiago back in midfield. I guess a lot will depend on Salah and Mane staying and if not who comes in to replace them.

Man City will always be up there so I think depending on who United buy this summer then it will hopefully be a much closer title race next year.


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you add Varane, Sancho and Kane/Haaland to that United team then you've got, or are very close to getting, a team that can challenge for the title and the CL. Having said that you're probably looking at £250 million to get those three in and possibly still needing a centre mid on top. 

I have very deliberately put challenge rather than win because with Liverpool seemingly getting Konate to partner a hopefully fit again Van Dijk they should be back in the mix next year with Henderson, Fabinho and Thiago back in midfield. I guess a lot will depend on Salah and Mane staying and if not who comes in to replace them.

Man City will always be up there so I think depending on who United buy this summer then it will hopefully be a much closer title race next year.
		
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add those 3 to most top half sides and they wont be too far away!


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## theoneandonly (May 27, 2021)

Spurs fans, I see a lot of noise around a possible return of Pochettino. How woud you feel about that?


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

theoneandonly said:



			Spurs fans, I see a lot of noise around a possible return of Pochettino. How woud you feel about that?
		
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how can this be anything other than a bored journo needing a column?

So Pochettino is going to resign after less than 6 mths at PSG
Levy is then going to apologise for sacking him and put his ego aside and offer him his job back (even after Poch didnt take a new job straight after being fired to ensure he got the full pay out)
Pochettino is then going to return despite knowing that Kane is leaving

if theres even a thread of truth in this football crazier than i thought lol


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## ColchesterFC (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			add those 3 to most top half sides and they wont be too far away!
		
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Yeah, very good point. Not sure how many other top half teams could go out and spend £250m + in a single transfer window though. Man City are probably the only other one that could and they don't really need to.


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Yeah, very good point. Not sure how many other top half teams could go out and spend £250m + in a single transfer window though. Man City are probably the only other one that could and they don't really need to.
		
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Pretty sure Chelsea could do if they catch Roman on a good day, again  Putting those 3 in at Chelsea may be a better side than doing so at United too


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## ColchesterFC (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Pretty sure Chelsea could do if they catch Roman on a good day, again  Putting those 3 in at Chelsea may be a better side than doing so at United too
		
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Can't believe that I totally forgot Chelsea when talking about teams with money. And would agree that Chelsea plus those three would be better than Man U plus those three.


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## Orikoru (May 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you add Varane, Sancho and Kane/Haaland to that United team then you've got, or are very close to getting, a team that can challenge for the title and the CL. Having said that you're probably looking at *£250 million* to get those three in and possibly still needing a centre mid on top.
		
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A lot more than that!



theoneandonly said:



			Spurs fans, I see a lot of noise around a possible return of Pochettino. How woud you feel about that?
		
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I think it would be great, but it all depends on Levy. Reappointing him would be tantamount to admitting he didn't back him properly the last time, so would require a bit of humble pie and actually bring in some proper players for him to work with this time. 



fundy said:



			how can this be anything other than a bored journo needing a column?

So Pochettino is going to resign after less than 6 mths at PSG
Levy is then going to apologise for sacking him and put his ego aside and offer him his job back (even after Poch didnt take a new job straight after being fired to ensure he got the full pay out)
Pochettino is then going to return despite knowing that Kane is leaving

if theres even a thread of truth in this football crazier than i thought lol
		
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I follow an in-the-know Spurs journo named Alasdair Gold, and he reckons there is some truth here. Pochettino isn't delighted with PSG as 'too much politics' there and wants to get back to pure coaching of the team - they wouldn't dig their heels in since he failed to win the league - and we'd be open to Poch returning and have spoken to him about the possibility apparently. Poch coming back would be a huge factor in possibly convincing Kane to stay another year as they are extremely close - and in all honesty I think that might be the number one reason to appoint him. But as I say, he's not going to rejoin without proper assurances that he'll be able to bring in a couple of top defenders to strengthen the team, at the very minimum.


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			A lot more than that!


I think it would be great, but it all depends on Levy. Reappointing him would be tantamount to admitting he didn't back him properly the last time, so would require a bit of humble pie and actually bring in some proper players for him to work with this time. 


I follow an in-the-know Spurs journo named Alasdair Gold, and he reckons there is some truth here. Pochettino isn't delighted with PSG as 'too much politics' there and wants to get back to pure coaching of the team - they wouldn't dig their heels in since he failed to win the league - and we'd be open to Poch returning and have spoken to him about the possibility apparently. Poch coming back would be a huge factor in possibly convincing Kane to stay another year as they are extremely close - and in all honesty I think that might be the number one reason to appoint him. But as I say, he's not going to rejoin without proper assurances that he'll be able to bring in a couple of top defenders to strengthen the team, at the very minimum.
		
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that or next weeks season ticket sales deadline and the numbers are a bit low and Levy needed a decent story 

would bring new meaning to "spursy" i guess


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## Blue in Munich (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Pretty sure Chelsea could do if they catch Roman on a good day, again  Putting those 3 in at Chelsea may be a better side than doing so at United too
		
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Putting in someone like Mata or Fabregas who can see runs & release the ball instead of Slow-ginho would make Chelsea a much better team.


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Putting in someone like Mata or Fabregas who can see runs & release the ball instead of Slow-ginho would make Chelsea a much better team.
		
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got a Xhaka you can have cheap, if you think Jorginho is slow..........


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## Blue in Munich (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			got a Xhaka you can have cheap, if you think Jorginho is slow..........
		
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Jorginho's slow but he does move...


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you add Varane, Sancho and Kane/Haaland to that United team then you've got, or are very close to getting, a team that can challenge for the title and the CL. Having said that you're probably looking at £250 million to get those three in and possibly still needing a centre mid on top.

I have very deliberately put challenge rather than win because with Liverpool seemingly getting Konate to partner a hopefully fit again Van Dijk they should be back in the mix next year with Henderson, Fabinho and Thiago back in midfield. I guess a lot will depend on Salah and Mane staying and if not who comes in to replace them.

Man City will always be up there so I think depending on who United buy this summer then it will hopefully be a much closer title race next year.
		
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I think even adding in some top quality players I don’t think UTD have the managing and coaching structure to get the best out of them - if you bring in some big names then crucial is the right manager to mould them and imo OGS is not the manager to do that 

And the rumblings about Pochettino to Spurs seem to be growing 

https://www.skysports.com/football/...n-talks-with-tottenham-over-return-to-club?TT


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## Bdill93 (May 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you add Varane, Sancho and Kane/Haaland to that United team then you've got, or are very close to getting, a team that can challenge for the title and the CL. Having said that you're probably looking at £250 million to get those three in and possibly still needing a centre mid on top.

I have very deliberately put challenge rather than win because with Liverpool seemingly getting Konate to partner a hopefully fit again Van Dijk they should be back in the mix next year with Henderson, Fabinho and Thiago back in midfield. I guess a lot will depend on Salah and Mane staying and if not who comes in to replace them.

Man City will always be up there so I think depending on who United buy this summer then it will hopefully be a much closer title race next year.
		
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A cool 300 million quid window at least!


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## Billysboots (May 27, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I grew up knowing united to just go out and buy the biggest and best players. Never held on to dead wood.

The current united is the polar opposite. They need a massive revamp, but I think the owners are whats holding them back. Well, them and Ed Woodward - that guy just doesnt understand football.
		
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Getting rid of the deadwood has been an issue for years. The squad has long remained bloated with unused players on huge wages, and those in charge of transfers seem totally incapable of moving them on, preferring instead to tie them up on long term deals. The fact Phil Jones is still there, for example, is utterly baffling.

Last night was a disappointment but, I’m afraid, no surprise. The squad lacks depth, and we arrived at the business end of the season with players horribly out of form, some having been poor for months with no viable options to replace them.

The classic example is Rashford. Sorry, I don’t care what the stats say, he is way short of being world class and has been poor for way too long. He would not get a sniff at City, Liverpool or a host of other clubs. I accept he can be capable of the extraordinary, but he too often makes the ordinary look beyond him, and his tendency to run directly into trouble and lose possession is infuriating. I may be a voice in the wilderness but if any club is mad enough to make a big money offer I’d offload him tomorrow. The club needs a quality forward in his position for the long term - he is not it.

Elsewhere, central defence has been a mess for years. How Victor Lindelöf is still getting a game at this level remains a mystery. A quality centre half is a must. A right winger is needed, and also another central midfielder to replace the appalling Fred, who appears to have forgotten he is Brazilian.

So a huge outlay is required, make no mistake. Is Solskjaer the man to take this forward? I still think he needs a transfer window during which he is allowed to bring in his own players. It is abundantly clear that Van de Beek was not a player the manager wanted, and leaving him on the bench week after week sends a clear message to the owners - buy expensive players by all means, but if I don’t want them, they won’t play.

So, a huge summer (again) for United. If they get the right players in, and we are in a similar position this time next year, then Ole’s race may well be run. But not quite yet.


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

Pochettino to spurs gone odds on with the bookies 

This might be expensive if im wrong lol


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Pochettino to spurs gone odds on with the bookies 

This might be expensive if im wrong lol
		
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Well it’s all over social media now that he is talking to Spurs about a return

Allegri going back to Juve

Conte going to Madrid apparently

Rijkaard back to Barce

Some big managerial changes


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## Orikoru (May 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Last night was a disappointment but, I’m afraid, no surprise. The squad lacks depth, and we arrived at the business end of the season with players horribly out of form, some having been poor for months with no viable options to replace them.

The classic example is Rashford. Sorry, I don’t care what the stats say, he is way short of being world class and has been poor for way too long. He would not get a sniff at City, Liverpool or a host of other clubs. I accept he can be capable of the extraordinary, but he too often makes the ordinary look beyond him, and his tendency to run directly into trouble and lose possession is infuriating. I may be a voice in the wilderness but if any club is mad enough to make a big money offer I’d offload him tomorrow. The club needs a quality forward in his position for the long term - he is not it.
		
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I'm with you on Rashford. He's got an impressive bag of tricks and skills, but his finishing is poor. That's why he's ended up a left winger rather than a striker. He can pull something magical out of nowhere, but all the simple stuff, like finishing a one-on-one for example, he really struggles with. One of those players who's good on instinct, but give him time to think and he fluffs it. I wouldn't say you need to get rid because he is still young and can improve. But you need more options and competition there, I don't think him being an automatic starter is helping him necessarily.


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well it’s all over social media now that he is talking to Spurs about a return

Allegri going back to Juve

Conte going to Madrid apparently

Rijkaard back to Barce

Some big managerial changes
		
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Even money says Poch doesnt go back for me this morning lol, so much for never betting on these mkts again haha


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## Liverbirdie (May 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Getting rid of the deadwood has been an issue for years. The squad has long remained bloated with unused players on huge wages, and those in charge of transfers seem totally incapable of moving them on, preferring instead to tie them up on long term deals. The fact Phil Jones is still there, for example, is utterly baffling.

Last night was a disappointment but, I’m afraid, no surprise. The squad lacks depth, and we arrived at the business end of the season with players horribly out of form, some having been poor for months with no viable options to replace them.

The classic example is Rashford. Sorry, I don’t care what the stats say, he is way short of being world class and has been poor for way too long. He would not get a sniff at City, Liverpool or a host of other clubs. I accept he can be capable of the extraordinary, but he too often makes the ordinary look beyond him, and his tendency to run directly into trouble and lose possession is infuriating. I may be a voice in the wilderness but if any club is mad enough to make a big money offer I’d offload him tomorrow. The club needs a quality forward in his position for the long term - he is not it.

Elsewhere, central defence has been a mess for years. How Victor Lindelöf is still getting a game at this level remains a mystery. A quality centre half is a must. A right winger is needed, and also another central midfielder to replace the appalling Fred, who appears to have forgotten he is Brazilian.

So a huge outlay is required, make no mistake. Is Solskjaer the man to take this forward? I still think he needs a transfer window during which he is allowed to bring in his own players. It is abundantly clear that Van de Beek was not a player the manager wanted, and leaving him on the bench week after week sends a clear message to the owners - buy expensive players by all means, but if I don’t want them, they won’t play.

So, a huge summer (again) for United. If they get the right players in, and we are in a similar position this time next year, then Ole’s race may well be run. But not quite yet.
		
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It reminds me of our 2011-2015 years in some ways.

We have some very good players, some good players, but need at least 3 more very good players in the team. some of the others are good enough to flesh out the squad, but shouldn't be regulars. There are also 4-8 players around the squad that are dead wood, but you can't get rid in one go, but can over 1-3 transfer windows, and may also get you 10's of millions for.

For a few years after then we had a good team, but needed 1-2 for the team plus another 2-3 for the squad, as you need 20 (minimum), ideally 22 and 25 if your lucky (or Chelsea or City) very good and good players to keep multi-target seasons going. The squad can be kept reasonably happy with a title or CL at the end of it. That is the end game for most top clubs.

Man U arent as short as some make out as a squad, but do need 3 minimum for the team.

Ole may do it with one more window if they throw a stack at it but doubtful. When you havent got the stacks of cash, you need to be a helluva coach to get another 25-35% out of a team, and I dont think he has proved he is, so far.

I would say that even though Chelsea finished below you (and us), they are actually closer to improving more. Yes, they threw £200 million??? at it last year but 1-2 in that team could make a big difference, as I think they have a good squad, just that Havertz and Werner havent fired (yet) or they may cut their losses on one and get a top class striker plus one other.


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## Slime (May 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



*Getting rid of the deadwood has been an issue for years.*

Elsewhere, *central defence has been a mess for years.* How Victor Lindelöf is still getting a game at this level remains a mystery. A quality centre half is a must. A right winger is needed, and also another central midfielder to replace* the appalling Fred,* who appears to have forgotten he is Brazilian.

So a huge outlay is required, make no mistake. Is Solskjaer the man to take this forward? *I still think he needs a transfer window during which he is allowed to bring in his own players. It is abundantly clear that Van de Beek was not a player the manager wanted, and leaving him on the bench week after week sends a clear message to the owners - buy expensive players by all means, but if I don’t want them, they won’t play.*

So, a huge summer (again) for United. If they get the right players in, and we are in a similar position this time next year, then Ole’s race may well be run. But not quite yet.
		
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Spot on. 
It's those above OGS who are holding the club back.


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## Billysboots (May 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm with you on Rashford. He's got an impressive bag of tricks and skills, but his finishing is poor. That's why he's ended up a left winger rather than a striker. He can pull something magical out of nowhere, but all the simple stuff, like finishing a one-on-one for example, he really struggles with. One of those players who's good on instinct, but give him time to think and he fluffs it. I wouldn't say you need to get rid because he is still young and can improve. But you need more options and competition there, I don't think him being an automatic starter is helping him necessarily.
		
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I agree he’s young, but he’s been a regular now for long enough for the club and fans to know what they’re dealing with.

If his long term position is going to be out on the left, and I agree he is way short of the clinical finishing ability to ever be a number nine, he has to rid himself of the infuriating tendency to try and run straight into defenders, losing possession in the process. He does it time, and time, and time again. He’s far too wasteful in possession for me.

My preference would be for the club to cash in. When Rashford was younger I saw much in him that reminded me of Danny Wellbeck. I’m not for one moment saying Rashford has remained at that level, but neither has he reached the level where he should be an automatic starter. 

As for the suggestion that he’s world class, that’s simply ludicrous. There are others ahead of him in the England pecking order now, so much so I’m not even sure he merits a place in the final 26.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Spot on.
It's those above OGS who are holding the club back.
		
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You can’t keep excusing OGS though just because he is an ex player 

He looked lost last night - didn’t know what to do to change things up , you could see the players were flagging and someone needed to come on for freshen things - even Mata or James for the last 20 mins. There appeared no structure to the way they were playing , no desire 

Can look to point fingers above OGS but he has spent a significant amount over the past 2 and half years and they don’t seem to be any further forward compared to when he took over


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

I see yet again Rashford and some of the other Man U players received a load of vile abuse on social media again after last nights result

Good to see the protest of not using it the other week worked 

Really has to be time social media companies made people (and themselves) accountable


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## Orikoru (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You can’t keep excusing OGS though just because he is an ex player

He looked lost last night - didn’t know what to do to change things up , you could see the players were flagging and someone needed to come on for freshen things - even Mata or James for the last 20 mins. There appeared no structure to the way they were playing , no desire

Can look to point fingers above OGS but he has spent a significant amount over the past 2 and half years and they don’t seem to be any further forward compared to when he took over
		
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His whole plan in terms of subs seemed to wait until extra time injury time and bring on two penalty takers.


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			His whole plan in terms of subs seemed to wait until extra time injury time and bring on two penalty takers. 

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shame he didnt bring on a penalty saver


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## BiMGuy (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			shame he didnt bring on a penalty saver 

Click to expand...

That was the big mistake.


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## pokerjoke (May 27, 2021)

A very poor performance last night way below the standard we have played sometimes this season but that’s football.
In my opinion Ole has definitely moved the club forward and will continue to do so next season.
The big players unfortunately didn’t turn up they looked knackered, no surprise with the amount of games they’ve played.
Ole picked his best starting 11 and they under performed.
One mistake Ole did make was not freshening it up but it’s pretty obvious he has no confidence in a lot of them and if so he needs to offload some.
Earlier on in the season if he had played VDB and Mata more maybe it would have helped rest the starting 11.
There’s no doubt where we need freshening and I suspect everything is being done behind the scenes to get it done.
Thank god the Hockey season is upon us and the absolute KJs can watch that really exciting sport.
Final point is Rashford ( sell him) do you realise how old he is and what he’s achieved so far and what he will achieve in the future.
Hockey’s your sport for sure


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			I see yet again Rashford and some of the other Man U players received a load of vile abuse on social media again after last nights result

Good to see the protest of not using it the other week worked 

Really has to be time social media companies made people (and themselves) accountable
		
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it’s shocking - I can’t understand the mentality that makes people think it’s the action to racially abuse someone just because the team lose 

Social media companies need to start demanding proof of address and identity etc before these accounts are created . They need to step up 

The social media protests were never going to work .


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## BiMGuy (May 27, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			A very poor performance last night way below the standard we have played sometimes this season but that’s football.
In my opinion Ole has definitely moved the club forward and will continue to do so next season.
The big players unfortunately didn’t turn up they looked knackered, no surprise with the amount of games they’ve played.
Ole picked his best starting 11 and they under performed.
One mistake Ole did make was not freshening it up but it’s pretty obvious he has no confidence in a lot of them and if so he needs to offload some.
Earlier on in the season if he had played VDB and Mata more maybe it would have helped rest the starting 11.
There’s no doubt where we need freshening and I suspect everything is being done behind the scenes to get it done.
Thank god the Hockey season is upon us and the absolute KJs can watch that really exciting sport.
Final point is Rashford ( sell him) do you realise how old he is and what he’s achieved so far and what he will achieve in the future.
Hockey’s your sport for sure 

Click to expand...

What has Rashford achieved? Promised much, delivers very little.


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## Bdill93 (May 27, 2021)

If I supported United Id want way more than what they have, they need to go back to signing premier league proven talent. Cherry pick players from the mid table teams, flex some damn muscle. All I ever hear is how big the club is and they couldnt even get Sancho over the line last year 

And I'm a Villa fan!


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			If I supported United Id want way more than what they have, they need to go back to signing premier league proven talent. Cherry pick players from the mid table teams, flex some damn muscle. All I ever hear is how big the club is and they couldnt even get Sancho over the line last year 

And I'm a Villa fan!
		
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youll enjoy them trying to get Grealish over the line for the next few mths then


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## Bdill93 (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			youll enjoy them trying to get Grealish over the line for the next few mths then 

Click to expand...

They can only dream.... and I suppose thats the struggle, some teams dont have to sell!


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## Billysboots (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You can’t keep excusing OGS though just because he is an ex player 

He looked lost last night - didn’t know what to do to change things up , you could see the players were flagging and someone needed to come on for freshen things - even Mata or James for the last 20 mins. There appeared no structure to the way they were playing , no desire 

Can look to point fingers above OGS but he has spent a significant amount over the past 2 and half years and they don’t seem to be any further forward compared to when he took over
		
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Largely agree, with the exception of money spent. The CLUB has spent money, but I am far from convinced the outlay has been on players Solskjaer wanted.

Van de Beek is a classic case in point. I could understand him finishing the season on the bench if he had been given a decent run in the side and been found wanting. But he simply hasn’t been given a chance. Not a chance. That, to me, is as clear an indication as he can possibly give that the player was not one Solskjaer wanted.

I still need to be convinced that Solskjaer is the man for the job. But he is nowhere near the catastrophic appointment many suggested he was, and can only truly be judged when he has the players at his disposal he genuinely wants to work with.

If he gets his players in this summer, and next season sees more of the same, then it may be time to rethink. Let’s be honest, United are not the second best side in the Premier League, regardless of what the table says. At times this season they have been awful to watch, and most realists know there is a lot of hard work to be done.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 27, 2021)

I’m amazed at all these experts, non Utd fans, we have on Man Utd on here!!

Where were all these comments about the squad after the semi-final or saturday when they finished runners-up in the PL?

If we were to be honest as neutrals I’d say 99% of us would of put Utd maybe 4th in a pecking order based on squads at the beginning of the season, City, LPool & Chelsea certainly looked stronger.

So for a poor manager with a poor squad that has underperforming big players in, Runners-Up in the PL and a European Final really isn’t a bad season considering all that and probably 90% of PL Teams would swap.

It maybe poor by their standards, but why do some opposition fans care or seem to know exactly what they need.


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## BiMGuy (May 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m amazed at all these experts, non Utd fans, we have on Man Utd on here!!

Where were all these comments about the squad after the semi-final or saturday when they finished runners-up in the PL?

If we were to be honest as neutrals I’d say 99% of us would of put Utd maybe 4th in a pecking order based on squads at the beginning of the season, City, LPool & Chelsea certainly looked stronger.

So for a poor manager with a poor squad that has underperforming big players in, Runners-Up in the PL and a European Final really isn’t a bad season considering all that and probably 90% of PL Teams would swap.

It maybe poor by their standards, but why do some opposition fans care or seem to know exactly what they need.

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Its called a discussion. Are people not allowed an option anymore?

I've spent all season listening to experts and fans of other clubs give their opinion on Leeds this season. Most have no idea and have been wrong.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Largely agree, with the exception of money spent. The CLUB has spent money, but I am far from convinced the outlay has been on players Solskjaer wanted.

Van de Beek is a classic case in point. I could understand him finishing the season on the bench if he had been given a decent run in the side and been found wanting. But he simply hasn’t been given a chance. Not a chance. That, to me, is as clear an indication as he can possibly give that the player was not one Solskjaer wanted.

I still need to be convinced that Solskjaer is the man for the job. But he is nowhere near the catastrophic appointment many suggested he was, and can only truly be judged when he has the players at his disposal he genuinely wants to work with.

If he gets his players in this summer, and next season sees more of the same, then it may be time to rethink. Let’s be honest, United are not the second best side in the Premier League, regardless of what the table says. At times this season they have been awful to watch, and most realists know there is a lot of hard work to be done.
		
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I think it’s always a rocky road when players arrive that the manager doesn’t want. De Beek is a very good player - better than the likes of Fred , it may not be his player but to ignore him seems daft - he would improve the centre of the park for the team 

OGS reminds me a bit of Roy Evans - a good club person but just doesn’t have the standing to manage at that high level. They will buy again in the summer but I don’t see them getting near to winning either of the big comps. His track record just isn’t there and he isn’t changing that in the past 2 and half years. The football even isn’t even good to watch at times. 
Put it this way I hope they stick with him.


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## Billysboots (May 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m amazed at all these experts, non Utd fans, we have on Man Utd on here!!

Where were all these comments about the squad after the semi-final or saturday when they finished runners-up in the PL?

If we were to be honest as neutrals I’d say 99% of us would of put Utd maybe 4th in a pecking order based on squads at the beginning of the season, City, LPool & Chelsea certainly looked stronger.

So for a poor manager with a poor squad that has underperforming big players in, Runners-Up in the PL and a European Final really isn’t a bad season considering all that and probably 90% of PL Teams would swap.

It maybe poor by their standards, but why do some opposition fans care or seem to know exactly what they need.

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Not sure if you are including me in that, but I’ve been a United fan for nearly fifty years and a regular at Old Trafford for many of them.

At the start of the season I didn’t believe we had a prayer of making top four. I thought, whilst the club doubtless has quality at their disposal, the squad is thin and there have been alarming gaps in key areas for far too long.

Defensively, we are appalling. We have been for far too long. Even with Maguire we struggle to defend set pieces but, without him, we are a car crash waiting to happen. Before Villareal’s goal last night I commented at the ridiculously high line United were holding, knowing full well that any decent ball would lead to Lindelöf being bullied out of the challenge. That’s not me professing to be an expert, merely the fact I have seen it happen that often I know what’s coming. A commanding centre back with pace is a desperate need, and has been for too long.

Don’t let second place fool you. The home form has been abysmal. It’s only the astonishing away form which finds us where we are, and I wonder how the absence of fans has contributed to it.

Don’t get me wrong, there are certainly signs that United are on the right track. But what has really frustrated me at times is when Solskjaer hasn’t gone for the kill in games which have been there for the taking. Liverpool away is a prime example - they were on a poor run, we, at the time, were in a title race. And yet Solskjaer went all Mourinho on us and played for the draw. I was screaming at the television.

A good year, if you look at the table and a run in Europe. An average one if you actually consider the reality of how both were achieved. Getting into the Europa League via the back door and then being given the benefit of a largely easy draw should have been a passport to silverware. But even that was too tough for a squad lacking in key areas to handle.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Not sure if you are including me in that, but I’ve been a United fan for nearly fifty years and a regular at Old Trafford for many of them.

At the start of the season I didn’t believe we had a prayer of making top four. I thought, whilst the club doubtless has quality at their disposal, the squad is thin and there have been alarming gaps in key areas for far too long.

Defensively, we are appalling. We have been for far too long. Even with Maguire we struggle to defend set pieces but, without him, we are a car crash waiting to happen. Before Villareal’s goal last night I commented at the ridiculously high line United were holding, knowing full well that any decent ball would lead to Lindelöf being bullied out of the challenge. That’s not me professing to be an expert, merely the fact I have seen it happen that often I know what’s coming. A commanding centre back with pace is a desperate need, and has been for too long.

Don’t let second place fool you. The home form has been abysmal. It’s only the astonishing away form which finds us where we are, and I wonder how the absence of fans has contributed to it.

Don’t get me wrong, there are certainly signs that United are on the right track. But what has really frustrated me at times is when Solskjaer hasn’t gone for the kill in games which have been there for the taking. Liverpool away is a prime example - they were on a poor run, we, at the time, were in a title race. And yet Solskjaer went all Mourinho on us and played for the draw. I was screaming at the television.

A good year, if you look at the table and a run in Europe. An average one if you actually consider the reality of how both were achieved. Getting into the Europa League via the back door and then being given the benefit of a largely easy draw should have been a passport to silverware. But even that was too tough for a squad lacking in key areas to handle.
		
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Did you miss the non-Utd fans bit?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 27, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Its called a discussion. Are people not allowed an option anymore?

I've spent all season listening to experts and fans of other clubs give their opinion on Leeds this season. Most have no idea and have been wrong.
		
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Not on about discussing anything, but some apparently weakness’s that were obvious but only just mentioning it.

Half of the points have never been raised and the other half wouldn’t of been mentioned if they’d of won last night.

The way Utd is being discussed is exactly the same as the Leeds opinion.


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## Billysboots (May 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Did you miss the non-Utd fans bit?
		
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No. I wondered whether you might have thought I was a “non-Utd fan”, hence me taking the opportunity to clarify it.


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## pokerjoke (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think it’s always a rocky road when players arrive that the manager doesn’t want. De Beek is a very good player - better than the likes of Fred , it may not be his player but to ignore him seems daft - he would improve the centre of the park for the team 

OGS reminds me a bit of Roy Evans - a good club person but just doesn’t have the standing to manage at that high level. They will buy again in the summer but I don’t see them getting near to winning either of the big comps. His track record just isn’t there and he isn’t changing that in the past 2 and half years. The football even isn’t even good to watch at times. 
Put it this way I hope they stick with him.
		
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Classic clueless Phil
How can you seriously say VDB is better than Fred.
VDB hasn’t played enough games or minutes to even compare the 2
He’s done nothing since he came and will leave having done nothing.
Fred started off poorly but kept Pogba on the bench on many occasions and done well.


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## Billysboots (May 27, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Classic clueless Phil
How can you seriously say VDB is better than Fred.
VDB hasn’t played enough games or minutes to even compare the 2
He’s done nothing since he came and will leave having done nothing.
Fred started off poorly but kept Pogba on the bench on many occasions and done well.
		
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Hmmmm. Fred started badly, and whilst he had a decent run of games earlier this season and appeared to have, at long last, settled in the Premier League, he has now reverted to type.

For the last couple of months he has been beyond poor. At times he has been embarrassing to watch.


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## Junior (May 27, 2021)

Having watched the vast majority of Man U games over the past 35 years I’ve lived the good times and the not so good.

More recently I’ve suffered through Moyes and then the brick wall tactics of LVG and Mourinio.  I can safely say this OGS is the best team we have had in the past 10 years, and when on song, plays the best football.  Whilst trophy-less, we have improved year on year but been plagued by inconsistency that I think 3 players could help fix.  A CB (if Bailey keeps getting injured) a holding Centre Midfielder (Fred is pants) and Right Winger.   The manager market is bare so I think our best option is to give him 3 signings and the chance to learn from his mistakes.  OGS has done enough to deserve another season.


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## Junior (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think it’s always a rocky road when players arrive that the manager doesn’t want. De Beek is a very good player - better than the likes of Fred , it may not be his player but to ignore him seems daft - he would improve the centre of the park for the team

OGS reminds me a bit of Roy Evans - a good club person but just doesn’t have the standing to manage at that high level. They will buy again in the summer but I don’t see them getting near to winning either of the big comps. His track record just isn’t there and he isn’t changing that in the past 2 and half years. The football even isn’t even good to watch at times.
Put it this way I hope they stick with him.
		
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VDB should never have been signed as we have Pogba and Fernandes.  It’s unfair to compare him to Fred’s as he's a holding midfielder.


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## pokerjoke (May 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Hmmmm. Fred started badly, and whilst he had a decent run of games earlier this season and appeared to have, at long last, settled in the Premier League, he has now reverted to type.

For the last couple of months he has been beyond poor. At times he has been embarrassing to watch.
		
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My point is some Hockey expert thinks Fred is worse than VDB he’s obviously not,pure and simple.
Certainly agree Fred’s not the answer.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			No. I wondered whether you might have thought I was a “non-Utd fan”, hence me taking the opportunity to clarify it.
		
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Dont worry Billy - it’s more posting towards posters , same with some others, as BIM it’s just a discussion and this time it’s about UTD because they are relevant right now after losing last night. 


Junior said:



			Having watched the vast majority of Man U games over the past 35 years I’ve lived the good times and the not so good.

More recently I’ve suffered through Moyes and then the brick wall tactics of LVG and Mourinio.  I can safely say this OGS is the best team we have had in the past 10 years, and when on song, plays the best football.  Whilst trophy-less, we have improved year on year but been plagued by inconsistency that I think 3 players could help fix.  A CB (if Bailey keeps getting injured) a holding Centre Midfielder (Fred is pants) and Right Winger.   The manager market is bare so I think our best option is to give him 3 signings and the chance to learn from his mistakes.  OGS has done enough to deserve another season.
		
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It’s a heck of risk mate - do you give OGS that level of money for those players when he just isn’t proven as yet to be able to get the best out of them . There are managers like Conte , Loew available and even ones like Simeone may want to move - Utd have never been afraid to go after the big players and spend the money needed but for a manager they seem reluctant. 

There are some very talented players in the team but the last two times I have seen them just seem to be lacking structure and ideas - Cavani has dug them out of a hole a couple of times , De Beek who was superb player at Ajax just wasting away whilst Fred is on the pitch. 

Chelsea have had a stuttering season prob because of the amount of players they brought - but they took that decision to remove the club man as manager and replace with someone who has shown to be  proven.

Utd could bring in the three players suggested but I don’t see it being enough to challenge for the title 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

Junior said:



			VDB should never have been signed as we have Pogba and Fernandes.  It’s unfair to compare him to Fred’s as he's a holding midfielder.
		
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If Fred is a holding mid then he must be the worst in the world , can’t tackle , can’t cover. 

Pogba is a superb talent but just don’t produce on the pitch consistently 

McTominey last night was your best midfielder last night

And then he takes off Greenwood who was actually playing well and replaces him with Fred ?! Baffling 

If the midfield was dominating games you could understand why De Beek would just sit there but that doesn’t seem the case.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			No. I wondered whether you might have thought I was a “non-Utd fan”, hence me taking the opportunity to clarify it.
		
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Was aware who you supported.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dont worry Billy - it’s more posting towards posters , same with some others, as BIM it’s just a discussion and this time it’s about UTD because they are relevant right now after losing last night.
		
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Absolute garbage, you are the first to moan when others highlight LPool’s weakness’s and straight away make excuses as to why your season was as it was.

Who had the better season, weak Man Utd with the clueless manager or LPool who were reigning Champs?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397692689550872580
Oops 😂😂

And good old Moreno 😂😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397808751307112448


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## Tashyboy (May 27, 2021)

Junior said:



			Having watched the vast majority of Man U games over the past 35 years I’ve lived the good times and the not so good.

More recently I’ve suffered through Moyes and then the brick wall tactics of LVG and Mourinio.  I can safely say this OGS is the best team we have had in the past 10 years, and when on song, plays the best football.  Whilst trophy-less, we have improved year on year but been plagued by inconsistency that I think 3 players could help fix.  A CB (if Bailey keeps getting injured) a holding Centre Midfielder (Fred is pants) and Right Winger.   *The manager market is bare* so I think our best option is to give him 3 signings and the chance to learn from his mistakes.  OGS has done enough to deserve another season.
		
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Zidane, Poch, Conte, plus the guy from french champions hardly leaves the market bare. The problem is enticing them.
As a City fan it would be all to easy to lay the boot in but It hardly adds to discussion. I said about Utd when Maureen was there. He does not inspire players. Neither does Ole. An open question. What exactly is Utds style of play? I saw them raise there game v City, but that standard should be every week and for 90 minutes. What I find very odd is some folk on here think it has been a rubbish season quality wise yet Utd have had a good season finishing runners up and getting to a final 🤔
I think Utd, Arsenal, Spurs and a few others need a good clear out


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Zidane, Poch, Conte, plus the guy from french champions hardly leaves the market bare. The problem is enticing them.
As a City fan it would be all to easy to lay the boot in but It hardly adds to discussion. I said about Utd when Maureen was there. He does not inspire players. Neither does Ole. An open question. What exactly is Utds style of play? I saw them raise there game v City, but that standard should be every week and for 90 minutes. What I find very odd is some folk on here think it has been a rubbish season quality wise yet Utd have had a good season finishing runners up and getting to a final 🤔
I think Utd, Arsenal, Spurs and a few others need a good clear out
		
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every club in the top half has plenty of "deadwood" that could do with clearing, the difference is some clubs can afford to leave them be and buy replacements

others, Arsenal especially, just keep picking them lol

far easier said than done to move on players who are on hefty wages that they cant command elsewhere


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## Tashyboy (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			every club in the top half has plenty of "deadwood" that could do with clearing, the difference is some clubs can afford to leave them be and buy replacements

others, Arsenal especially, just keep picking them lol

far easier said than done to move on players who are on hefty wages that they cant command elsewhere
		
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👍

Gonna be interesting to see where he ends up
Italian Gianluigi Donnarumma, 22, who Milan director Paolo Maldini confirmed will leave the club when his contract ends in June.


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			👍

Gonna be interesting to see where he ends up
Italian Gianluigi Donnarumma, 22, who Milan director Paolo Maldini confirmed will leave the club when his contract ends in June.
		
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rumoured to be available to the highest bidder on all accounts

The lad theyve bought from Lille is decent


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## Junior (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If Fred is a holding mid then he must be the worst in the world , can’t tackle , can’t cover, *can’t pass* 

Pogba is a superb talent but just don’t produce on the pitch consistently

McTominey last night was your best midfielder last night

And then he takes off Greenwood who was actually playing well and replaces him with Fred ?! Baffling

If the midfield was dominating games you could understand why De Beek would just sit there but that doesn’t seem the case.
		
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Fixed that for you


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			👍

Gonna be interesting to see where he ends up
Italian Gianluigi Donnarumma, 22, who Milan director Paolo Maldini confirmed will leave the club when his contract ends in June.
		
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Not sure who actually needs a GK and would be willing to pay the level of wages he was asking for - PSG would be my bet 


Junior said:



			Fixed that for you 

Click to expand...

😂😂 sorry didnt him on the ball enough to witness the passing 

He took a good pen though


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## Junior (May 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Zidane, Poch, Conte, plus the guy from french champions hardly leaves the market bare. The problem is enticing them.
As a City fan it would be all to easy to lay the boot in but It hardly adds to discussion. I said about Utd when Maureen was there. He does not inspire players. Neither does Ole. An open question. What exactly is Utds style of play? *I saw them raise there game v City, but that standard should be every week and for 90 minutes*. What I find very odd is some folk on here think it has been a rubbish season quality wise yet Utd have had a good season finishing runners up and getting to a final 🤔
I think Utd, Arsenal, Spurs and a few others need a good clear out
		
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This is what I see (in bold) and it’s happened quite a few times this season.  There’s signs we can be really good.  It’s just consistency. 

Not convinced with those mgr choices Tash.

Zidane has all the resources in the world and messed up RM.  Poch won nothing with Spurs and lost the French league this season with the best team in it.   Conte did well at the start with Chelsea (and beat us in the fa cup) before taking them to 5th in the Prem.  Ole took us to 2nd last year.


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## Billysboots (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And then he takes off Greenwood who was actually playing well and replaces him with Fred ?! Baffling
		
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Baffling indeed.

Rashford was having (yet another) stinker, and the game changing substitution involved bringing on the abysmal Fred, and moving Rashford out to the right where he was only likely to play even worse than he already was. I was left totally bemused.

I actually think Solskjaer was under the impression during the second half that it was only a matter of time. It’s not as though Villarreal were playing an expansive attacking game. They were very, very negative. If United had been anywhere near on song there was only one side in it.

But they weren’t. Rashford should have been hooked after an hour, but I just don’t think Solskjaer had faith in anyone on the bench. There was no Plan B in the event his best available eleven, all on the pitch, were not performing.

Is that the fault of the manager or the lack of depth in the squad? Last night, at least, I think there was blame on both sides.


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## Dando (May 27, 2021)

Junior said:



			Fixed that for you 

Click to expand...

Fred would struggle to pass wind


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## Blue in Munich (May 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			every club in the top half has plenty of "deadwood" that could do with clearing, the difference is some clubs can afford to leave them be and buy replacements

*others, Arsenal especially, just keep picking them lol*

far easier said than done to move on players who are on hefty wages that they cant command elsewhere
		
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And we're very grateful...


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## fundy (May 27, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And we're very grateful... 

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id laugh if i wasnt crying


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## Slime (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a heck of risk mate - do you give OGS that level of money for those players when he just isn’t proven as yet to be able to get the best out of them . There are managers like Conte , Loew available and even ones like Simeone may want to move - *Utd have never been afraid to go after the big players and spend the money needed* but for a manager they seem reluctant.
Utd could bring in the three players suggested but I don’t see it being enough to challenge for the title 🤷‍♂️
		
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If that were true, and it clearly isn't, we'd have Sancho, Haaland and Bellingham in our squad.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			If that were true, and it clearly isn't, we'd have Sancho, Haaland and Bellingham in our squad.
		
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Pogba £95mil
Maguire £80mil
Lukaku £80mil
Di Maria £66mil
Marital £55mil
Fred £55mil
AWB £50mil

And then going back - players like Ferdinand, Rooney , RvN big fees at the time , and even further back the likes of Cole and Keane etc

So yes they have never had an issue spending big on big players


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## Liverbirdie (May 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Did you miss the non-Utd fans bit?
		
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Why dont you just show some bollocks and instead of a generalisation name names, or even more politely, try and pick apart what they say?

If we shouldn't be commenting on other teams "as experts", why do you talk about our team so much, instead of your own?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 27, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why dont you just show some bollocks and instead of a generalisation name names, or even more politely, try and pick apart what they say?

If we shouldn't be commenting on other teams "as experts", why do you talk about our team so much, instead of your own?
		
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How about you get your facts right!
I mentioned a conversation on sunday and get replies from you and Dave, LP has his sly dig with a hilarious meme, yet I’m always talking about yous!

Infact the first mention of either Club from an opposing fan on sunday was also LP, why not ask him the same question? Pointless me asking him, he won’t reply directly to me just likes your posts or comments in the third person!

He’ll be over the moon his big brother has turned up.

As for today, there were far too many “expert hindsight opinions” to answer them all.

If you have a problem with what I post feel free to ignore them, you’re getting boring now only coming on to have a jib at me.


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## Piece (May 27, 2021)

All this talk of how crap Fred, Lindelof, De Gea and Rashford were last night, and they were, yet very little mention of how poor Pogba and golden boy Fernandes were.


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## Billysboots (May 27, 2021)

Piece said:



			All this talk of how crap Fred, Lindelof, De Gea and Rashford were last night, and they were, yet very little mention of how poor Pogba and golden boy Fernandes were.
		
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The issue for me isn’t really about last night. It’s longer term. And for a considerable period of time Marcus Rashford has not been worth his place. Lindelöf and Fred have never been United players, and never will be.

Fernandes, much like he did towards the end of last season, has run out of steam. I fail to see how he can keep going if he barely misses a minute. He’s going to have bad games and, unfortunately, they’ve come bang at the wrong time. I’m not about to criticise a player without whom we’d probably be where Arsenal are.

And Pogba? Infuriating last night because his quality is not in doubt in my eyes. He just doesn’t deliver consistently.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 27, 2021)

Piece said:



			All this talk of how crap Fred, Lindelof, De Gea and Rashford were last night, and they were, yet very little mention of how poor Pogba and golden boy Fernandes were.
		
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Right at the start I mentioned that both went missing last night 

It’s not the first time for Pogba and I would expect this is the summer they may sell him back to Juve and hope to get a good amount but for £100mil he must be close to be one of the biggest financial flops in the Prem 

Fernandes - not for the first time was quiet in a big game , how much are his goals from penalties masking the lack of impact in some of the big games - 23 pens out of 36 goals, is he at that top table of attacking centre mids ?


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## Tashyboy (May 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The issue for me isn’t really about last night. It’s longer term. And for a considerable period of time Marcus Rashford has not been worth his place. Lindelöf and Fred have never been United players, and never will be.

Fernandes, much like he did towards the end of last season, has run out of steam. I fail to see how he can keep going if he barely misses a minute. He’s going to have bad games and, unfortunately, they’ve come bang at the wrong time. I’m not about to criticise a player without whom we’d probably be where Arsenal are.

And Pogba? Infuriating last night because his quality is not in doubt in my eyes. He just doesn’t deliver consistently.
		
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Would you stick with Ole, if not of who is available, which manager ?


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## Billysboots (May 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right at the start I mentioned that both went missing last night 

It’s not the first time for Pogba and I would expect this is the summer they may sell him back to Juve and hope to get a good amount but for £100mil he must be close to be one of the biggest financial flops in the Prem 

Fernandes - not for the first time was quiet in a big game , how much are his goals from penalties masking the lack of impact in some of the big games - 23 pens out of 36 goals, is he at that top table of attacking centre mids ?
		
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On the couple of occasions I managed to get to Old Trafford before Covid struck last year, I kept a close eye on Fernandes. His movement off the ball is right up there with the most intelligent I have ever seen. An absolute breath of fresh air.

It’s not all about the goals. The assists are there as well, and his range of passing is top drawer. Whilst I do agree he has a tendency to go missing at times in big games, he’s been in this league a little over twelve months. He will only get better.


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## Billysboots (May 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Would you stick with Ole, if not of who is available, which manager ?
		
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I’m happy to give him at least another season, Tash, but as I said up the thread he needs a transfer window where the players brought in are the players he wants. He can only fairly be judged on his squad.

Of the managers available the ones who are most likely to be linked will be Conte and Zidane. Whilst not doubting Conte is a winner, it comes at a cost. He seems to have a tendency to fall out with owners (although if he fell out with the Glazers he’d be straight to the top of my Christmas card list), but also leave chaos in his wake. I’m not sure the club needs another short term fix which unpicks a long term strategy.

And I’m just not convinced when it comes to Zidane’s man management. I have a feeling the harmony there currently seems to be at the club would not last long with him there.

So, for me, I’m happy to stick with Ole. We still play some bilge at times, but some of the flair is back at times when things click. They just need to click more often.


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## Liverbirdie (May 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How about you get your facts right!
I mentioned a conversation on sunday and get replies from you and Dave, LP has his sly dig with a hilarious meme, yet I’m always talking about yous!

Infact the first mention of either Club from an opposing fan on sunday was also LP, why not ask him the same question? Pointless me asking him, he won’t reply directly to me just likes your posts or comments in the third person!

He’ll be over the moon his big brother has turned up.

As for today, there were far too many “expert hindsight opinions” to answer them all.

If you have a problem with what I post feel free to ignore them, you’re getting boring now only coming on to have a jib at me.
		
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What facts?

I have this deep aversion to people talking bollocks, that I find hard to ignore.

You moan when people put you on ignore, moan and suggest they do now. For some reason a few weeks ago your "style" changed, dont know what it was, but since then you have turned into a big divvy. I'm not going to hide behind generalisations. Sort yourself out.


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## Junior (May 28, 2021)

Dando said:



			Fred would struggle to pass wind
		
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......and if he did it would be backwards or sideways.


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## Junior (May 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right at the start I mentioned that both went missing last night

It’s not the first time for Pogba and I would expect this is the summer they may sell him back to Juve and hope to get a good amount but for £100mil he must be close to be one of the biggest financial flops in the Prem

Fernandes - not for the first time was quiet in a big game , how much are his goals from penalties masking the lack of impact in some of the big games - 23 pens out of 36 goals, is he at that top table of attacking centre mids ?
		
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Bruno is quality.   In addition to his obvious talent,  he was the catalyst that stopped us from being a mid table team when he signed.  His leadership qualities are also probably better than Maguires.  He's a winner.  He's got the attitude that fans of teams like Man U and Liverpool demand.  

He goes missing in big games as he's a marked man, so his influence on thr game isn't as much as it should be.   It's like when people say Salah has had a bad season.....yet he's finished 2nd in the goal scoring table and is undoubtedly one of the best players in the prem.  Those that know,  know.


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## BiMGuy (May 28, 2021)

Junior said:



			Bruno is quality.   In addition to his obvious talent,  he was the catalyst that stopped us from being a mid table team when he signed.  His leadership qualities are also probably better than Maguires.  He's a winner.  He's got the attitude that fans of teams like Man U and Liverpool demand.  

He goes missing in big games as he's a marked man, so his influence on thr game isn't as much as it should be.   It's like when people say Salah has had a bad season.....yet he's finished 2nd in the goal scoring table and is undoubtedly one of the best players in the prem.  Those that know,  know.
		
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During the final he needed to spend more time concentrating on his football and less time whining to the ref.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2021)

Junior said:



			Bruno is quality.   In addition to his obvious talent,  he was the catalyst that stopped us from being a mid table team when he signed.  His leadership qualities are also probably better than Maguires.  He's a winner.  He's got the attitude that fans of teams like Man U and Liverpool demand. 

He goes missing in big games as he's a marked man, so his influence on thr game isn't as much as it should be.   It's like when people say Salah has had a bad season.....yet he's finished 2nd in the goal scoring table and is undoubtedly one of the best players in the prem.  Those that know,  know.
		
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I’m just looking at the last couple of games and he seemed to spend more time throwing himself to the floor looking for fouls and even more so constantly going to the referee every other minute . He is clearly a very talented player , seen him dominate other teams but if he is being squeezed out against the big teams he needs to find a way to get involved - the top players do that plus he prob also needs someone in the team to do the dirty work for him to let him free , going to be a big season for him next year 

Looks like we are sealing out first transfer 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398175832422617092


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## Orikoru (May 28, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			During the final he needed to spend more time concentrating on his football and less time whining to the ref.
		
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I honestly hate Bruno, I've never seen anyone moan as much as him in football. Not just at the ref, but at his teammates when they haven't passed to him, at opponents who had the audacity to try and tackle him - literally everyone, and it's non-stop. It's like in his head he believes he's something between Cristiano Ronaldo and a god.


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## Junior (May 28, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			During the final he needed to spend more time concentrating on his football and less time whining to the ref.
		
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I agree.  Reminds me of the story about Keane and Ronaldo.  Ronaldo was doing as Bruno does until Keane got a grip of him. 

Like I say, he’s a marked man and a fouled player.  Players do it to stop momentum, especially with players like him, Grealish etc.   I’m old school and would like him to just get on with it, sadly, it’s not the way these days.


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## Papas1982 (May 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right at the start I mentioned that both went missing last night

It’s not the first time for Pogba and I would expect this is the summer they may sell him back to Juve and hope to get a good amount but for £100mil he must be close to be one of the *biggest financial flops in the Prem*

Fernandes - not for the first time was quiet in a big game , how much are his goals from penalties masking the lack of impact in some of the big games - 23 pens out of 36 goals, is he at that top table of attacking centre mids ?
		
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I’m not sure I’d agree with that. i think he’s borderline a flop on performances, but there’s a reason they’ll offer him a new contract and I’m not sure it’s for resale value. He’s still a huge name marketing wise and I reckon he brings enough to the table that he makes financial sense to keep hold of.


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## Beezerk (May 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like we are sealing out first transfer 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398175832422617092

Click to expand...

That's a lot of money for a right back, specially when you already have the best in the PL 🤣😉


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## sunshine (May 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I honestly hate Bruno, *I've never seen anyone moan as much as him in football*. Not just at the ref, but at his teammates when they haven't passed to him, at opponents who had the audacity to try and tackle him - literally everyone, and it's non-stop. It's like in his head he believes he's something between Cristiano Ronaldo and a god.
		
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That's a big statement. He has plenty of competition in that category!

I think Bruno has a long way to go if he aspires to top level moaning like Neymar, Busquets and Pepe.


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## Orikoru (May 28, 2021)

sunshine said:



			That's a big statement. He has plenty of competition in that category!

I think Bruno has a long way to go if he aspires to top level moaning like Neymar, Busquets and Pepe.
		
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Nah, you need to watch him, honestly it is constant from kick-off to the final whistle. Anything other than him being untouched for 90 minutes and passed the ball at every opportunity is a personal insult to him.


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## Junior (May 28, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I’m not sure I’d agree with that. i think he’s borderline a flop on performances, but there’s a reason they’ll offer him a new contract and I’m not sure it’s for resale value. He’s still a huge name marketing wise and I reckon he brings enough to the table that he makes financial sense to keep hold of.
		
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If you'd have asked me at the start of the season.....I didn't want him anywhere near the club.  However, the minute Raiola started touting him around (November) it was like a switch that flicked and he became the rolls Royce of a player he can be.   Its rare I'll ever say this but he has everything on his day.  Vision,  touch, tackle, in the air, box to box, shooting.   He's a Scholes, Gerrard, Lampord type player.    But again, hes inconsistent.  I'd rather him at utd than City  Chelsea, Liverpool though.  

For me, this is where Ole needs to improve.  He needs to be able to manage and motivate him better.  Crazy (and sad) that footballers like him,  on hundreds of thousands per week need motivating really.


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## fundy (May 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			That's a lot of money for a right back, specially when you already have the best in the PL 🤣😉
		
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hes a centre half


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## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			That's a lot of money for a right back, specially when you already have the best in the PL 🤣😉
		
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He is a CB 😁



Junior said:



			If you'd have asked me at the start of the season.....I didn't want him anywhere near the club.  However, the minute Raiola started touting him around (November) it was like a switch that flicked and he became the rolls Royce of a player he can be.   Its rare I'll ever say this but he has everything on his day.  Vision,  touch, tackle, in the air, box to box, shooting.   He's a Scholes, Gerrard, Lampord type player.    But again, hes inconsistent.  I'd rather him at utd than City  Chelsea, Liverpool though. 

For me, this is where Ole needs to improve.  He needs to be able to manage and motivate him better.  Crazy (and sad) that footballers like him,  on hundreds of thousands per week need motivating really.
		
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When you watch him for both France and Juve he is superb - he has the lot but it just doesn’t seem to come through in the Prem ?


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## Liverbirdie (May 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m just looking at the last couple of games and he seemed to spend more time throwing himself to the floor looking for fouls and even more so constantly going to the referee every other minute . He is clearly a very talented player , seen him dominate other teams but if he is being squeezed out against the big teams he needs to find a way to get involved - the top players do that plus he prob also needs someone in the team to do the dirty work for him to let him free , going to be a big season for him next year

Looks like we are sealing out first transfer


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398175832422617092

Click to expand...

If true, glad we have got someone in early for a change rather than leaving it until the last minute and ending up with a panic buy left back from Hull.


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## Beezerk (May 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			hes a centre half
		
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Ha ha, I saw RB Leipzig and instantly thought he was a right back from Leipzig 🙈😅


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## fundy (May 28, 2021)

If theres any truth whatsoever in the rumour that Mourinho wants Xhaka at Roma please please please dont anyone stand in his way

And if he wants to take half a dozen others with him..............


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## fundy (May 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Ha ha, I saw RB Leipzig and instantly thought he was a right back from Leipzig 🙈😅
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Liverbirdie (May 28, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I’m not sure I’d agree with that. i think he’s borderline a flop on performances, but there’s a reason they’ll offer him a new contract and I’m not sure it’s for resale value. He’s still a huge name marketing wise and I reckon he brings enough to the table that he makes financial sense to keep hold of.
		
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If it upsets the team formation, set-up and atmosphere around the club too much that you are shoe-horning a player into the team - is that making financial sense, especially if the team hs mainly been trophy-less for the few years he has been there?


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## clubchamp98 (May 28, 2021)

That’s a good signing for us.
We only need a goalscorer now!
Possibly one more CM


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## Papas1982 (May 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			If it upsets the team formation, set-up and atmosphere around the club too much that you are shoe-horning a player into the team - is that making financial sense, especially if the team hs mainly been trophy-less for the few years he has been there?
		
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Do we know he upsets the atmosphere?
The team has been trophyless because they aren’t good enough. He’s still a better player than the likes of Fred and Van De Beek. i wouldn’t want him out before improvements were brought in.

In simple turns, as an asset I think he’s financially viable which was the point I countered, you can’t pay the blame for their (Utds) lack of success and therefore access to greater financial reward simply at his feet imo.


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## clubchamp98 (May 28, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Do we know he upsets the atmosphere?
The team has been trophyless because they aren’t good enough. He’s still a better player than the likes of Fred and Van De Beek. i wouldn’t want him out before improvements were brought in.

In simple turns, as an asset I think he’s financially viable which was the point I countered, you can’t pay the blame for their (Utds) lack of success and therefore access to greater financial reward simply at his feet imo.
		
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Every time I have watched Pogba ( not that often.)
He has impressed me ,he makes the game look easy.
Trophyless = the chances your strikers miss imo it’s very obvious.


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## Jensen (May 28, 2021)

Daniel Levy is an absolute joke and a laughing stock. Reports state that he has had contact with Pochettino about a return to replace HIS successor 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
In his 20 years at Spurs he has gone through 10 managers !!!!!, to name a few Glenn Hoddle, Martin Joll, Harry Redknapp, Jacque Santini, Andros Villa Boas, Juande Ramos, Mourinho etc, etc 🙄🙄. This clearly demonstrates NO long term planning, merely chopping and changing. 
The 2 stand out obvious flops from day 1 we’re going to be Andros Villa Boas and Mourinho. The 2 best were Redknapp and Pochettino.
NO way will Pochettino return, and why should he.
The future looks bleak at Tottenham, we have a state of the art stadium that we may struggle to fill. Our best player looks like he’ll be away. Coupled with players who have no connection/bond to the club. What does Levy do - he embarrasses himself by approaching Pochettino 😮😮
For the benefit of the club, it is YOU  Mr Levy who must go.


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## nickjdavis (May 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Would you stick with Ole, if not of who is available, which manager ?
		
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I think they need a real Man U hero.....


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## Orikoru (May 28, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Daniel Levy is an absolute joke and a laughing stock. Reports state that he has had contact with Pochettino about a return to replace HIS successor 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
In his 20 years at Spurs he has gone through 10 managers !!!!!, to name a few Glenn Hoddle, Martin Joll, Harry Redknapp, Jacque Santini, Andros Villa Boas, Juande Ramos, Mourinho etc, etc 🙄🙄. This clearly demonstrates NO long term planning, merely chopping and changing.
The 2 stand out obvious flops from day 1 we’re going to be Andros Villa Boas and Mourinho. The 2 best were Redknapp and Pochettino.
NO way will Pochettino return, and why should he.
The future looks bleak at Tottenham, we have a state of the art stadium that we may struggle to fill. Our best player looks like he’ll be away. Coupled with players who have no connection/bond to the club. What does Levy do - he embarrasses himself by approaching Pochettino 😮😮
For the benefit of the club, it is YOU  Mr Levy who must go.
		
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We discussed this a few pages back, but I disagree with you on a number of points. Firstly, apparently Poch is open to discussions because he isn't overly happy with his PSG role. Secondly, I think if Levy appoint him it shows a bit of growth, a willingness to eat humble pie and actually admit that he perhaps didn't back Poch the way he should have done a few years ago. Also will get a few fans back on side after the Super League mess, plus a slim chance that Kane will stick around since he loves Poch (and I reckon that might be reason number 1 to reappoint him, deep down). I don't see a lot of downsides to be honest. West Ham and Moyes have proved that going back to old manager can be a success as long as you right the wrongs of the first spell. If we bring in Poch, plus at least two very good defenders, manage to keep Kane for one more year then I'd be quietly confident about our chances of having a decent season.


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## Jensen (May 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			We discussed this a few pages back, but I disagree with you on a number of points. Firstly, apparently Poch is open to discussions because he isn't overly happy with his PSG role. Secondly, I think if Levy appoint him it shows a bit of growth, a willingness to eat humble pie and actually admit that he perhaps didn't back Poch the way he should have done a few years ago. Also will get a few fans back on side after the Super League mess, plus a slim chance that Kane will stick around since he loves Poch (and I reckon that might be reason number 1 to reappoint him, deep down). I don't see a lot of downsides to be honest. West Ham and Moyes have proved that going back to old manager can be a success as long as you right the wrongs of the first spell. If we bring in Poch, plus at least two very good defenders, manage to keep Kane for one more year then I'd be quietly confident about our chances of having a decent season.
		
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However there is always the monkey on the back - it rarely works out when players/managers return for a second period


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## pauljames87 (May 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			We discussed this a few pages back, but I disagree with you on a number of points. Firstly, apparently Poch is open to discussions because he isn't overly happy with his PSG role. Secondly, I think if Levy appoint him it shows a bit of growth, a willingness to eat humble pie and actually admit that he perhaps didn't back Poch the way he should have done a few years ago. Also will get a few fans back on side after the Super League mess, plus a slim chance that Kane will stick around since he loves Poch (and I reckon that might be reason number 1 to reappoint him, deep down). I don't see a lot of downsides to be honest. West Ham and Moyes have proved that going back to old manager can be a success as long as you right the wrongs of the first spell. If we bring in Poch, plus at least two very good defenders, manage to keep Kane for one more year then I'd be quietly confident about our chances of having a decent season.
		
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Quite a difference with Moyes and Poch tho

Moyes was on a 9 month contract .. to keep us up and then his contract wasn't renewed 

Poch was sacked .. and after getting spurs to the champs league final 

However I can see poch coming back, especially if say he has young kids who were settled In London, might just suit all parties 

Plus the fans loved him


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## Junior (May 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is a CB 😁



When you watch him for both France and Juve he is superb - he has the lot but it just doesn’t seem to come through in the Prem ?
		
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I've watched him a lot for us and since November he's been one of our best players.   I'd like Ole to set the team up better.  I'd go 4-3-3 with  De Gea, AWB, Maguire, Bailey,  Shaw.....Pogba, McTominay, A.N. Other, Fernandes,  Cavani, Greenwood. 

Ive said it before,  we're like Liverpool before VVD signed.


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## Rlburnside (May 28, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Daniel Levy is an absolute joke and a laughing stock. Reports state that he has had contact with Pochettino about a return to replace HIS successor 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
In his 20 years at Spurs he has gone through 10 managers !!!!!, to name a few Glenn Hoddle, Martin Joll, Harry Redknapp, Jacque Santini, Andros Villa Boas, Juande Ramos, Mourinho etc, etc 🙄🙄. This clearly demonstrates NO long term planning, merely chopping and changing. 
The 2 stand out obvious flops from day 1 we’re going to be Andros Villa Boas and Mourinho. The 2 best were Redknapp and Pochettino.
NO way will Pochettino return, and why should he.
The future looks bleak at Tottenham, we have a state of the art stadium that we may struggle to fill. Our best player looks like he’ll be away. Coupled with players who have no connection/bond to the club. What does Levy do - he embarrasses himself by approaching Pochettino 😮😮
For the benefit of the club, it is YOU  Mr Levy who must go.
		
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I’d be delighted if Poch came back 👍


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## Liverbirdie (May 28, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Do we know he upsets the atmosphere?
The team has been trophyless because they aren’t good enough. He’s still a better player than the likes of Fred and Van De Beek. i wouldn’t want him out before improvements were brought in.

In simple turns, as an asset I think he’s financially viable which was the point I countered, you can’t pay the blame for their (Utds) lack of success and therefore access to greater financial reward simply at his feet imo.
		
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He did when Mourinho was there, although so did Mourinho. 

Yes, better than them, but I doubt anyone many could say that he has been worth the £100 mill paid for him.


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## Liverbirdie (May 28, 2021)

Junior said:



			Ive said it before,  we're like Liverpool before VVD signed.
		
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Virgil PLUS Allison.

Them goalscoring keepers are like gold dust.


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## Orikoru (May 28, 2021)

Jensen said:



			However there is always the monkey on the back - it rarely works out when players/managers return for a second period
		
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I don't really know if that's true. Aside from Moyes you had Zidane who returned to Real Madrid and won the league again. Mourinho returned to Chelsea and won the league again. I can't really think of any other examples where it did fail horribly.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			If true, glad we have got someone in early for a change rather than leaving it until the last minute and ending up with a panic buy left back from Hull. 

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398247616933249029
It’s all signed and sealed


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## clubchamp98 (May 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Virgil PLUS Allison.

Them goalscoring keepers are like gold dust. 

Click to expand...

I did say we needed a goalscorer Pete .
Didn’t think it would be the keeper, but we would have won a lot more games if he went up for more corners.


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## clubchamp98 (May 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't really know if that's true. Aside from Moyes you had Zidane who returned to Real Madrid and won the league again. Mourinho returned to Chelsea and won the league again. I can't really think of any other examples where it did fail horribly.
		
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Think Pooch is a good fit and should never have got rid .
Putting Mourino in has taken you backwards.
Second time isn’t a prob


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## fundy (May 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Virgil PLUS Allison.

Them goalscoring keepers are like gold dust. 

Click to expand...


ah the irony


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## Billysboots (May 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I honestly hate Bruno, I've never seen anyone moan as much as him in football. Not just at the ref, but at his teammates when they haven't passed to him, at opponents who had the audacity to try and tackle him - literally everyone, and it's non-stop. It's like in his head he believes he's something between Cristiano Ronaldo and a god.
		
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I don’t like the play acting and moaning at the ref. Hate it. He doesn’t need to do it.

I remember when Ronaldo first came to Old Trafford and broke into the first team, it was clear from his first game, which I was at, that he was going to be a massive talent. It also became clear that he had a tendency to hit the deck way too easily. And I’ll tell you honestly, he got more stick for it from the Stretford End than he did from the away fans in the South East Quadrant. United fans dislike their own players diving as much as the away fans do.


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## Tashyboy (May 28, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I don’t like the play acting and moaning at the ref. Hate it. He doesn’t need to do it.

I remember when Ronaldo first came to Old Trafford and broke into the first team, it was clear from his first game, which I was at, that he was going to be a massive talent. It also became clear that he had a tendency to hit the deck way too easily. And I’ll tell you honestly, he got more stick for it from the Stretford End than he did from the away fans in the South East Quadrant. United fans dislike their own players diving as much as the away fans do.
		
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Watched a bit of a podcast the other day where Micah Richards, Linekar and Shearer were discussing Ronaldo. First thing Richards said was “ Ronaldo was difficult to play against coz he was always diving” he added straight away that “he did not have to he was that good”.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Watched a bit of a podcast the other day where Micah Richards, Linekar and Shearer were discussing Ronaldo. First thing Richards said was “ Ronaldo was difficult to play against coz he was always diving” he added straight away that “he did not have to he was that good”.
		
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I do believe the fans get more annoyed/frustrated with diving etc than the players (past and present) though.

2 main reasons being, they see it as part of the game, ie, “winning a foul” and they feel without diving the Referees won’t give some of the fouls.

Whatever the reason though, there’s no doubt it won’t stop until the players themselves accept it’s wrong.


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## fundy (May 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			Even money says Poch doesnt go back for me this morning lol, so much for never betting on these mkts again haha
		
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5/1 again now, thats better


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## Slime (May 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			That's a lot of money for a right back, specially when you already have the best in the PL 🤣😉
		
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2nd best!


----------



## pauljames87 (May 28, 2021)

Slime said:



			2nd best!
		
Click to expand...

Very true.. coufal had 7 assists from open play this season and dominated most games he played in..

Only 5 mil aswell


----------



## BiMGuy (May 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			5/1 again now, thats better 

Click to expand...

Luke Ayling was indeed magnificent this season.


----------



## 4LEX (May 28, 2021)

Back to the Europa League Final and the subject of Man Utd generally.

Ole actually went against his negative roots and picked a loaded team to try and blow Villareal away. Unfortnately he had absolutely no game plan, none of the big players performed and Emery did a job on him. Throw in the bizarre lack of subs, Plan B and it just sums up everything bad about Ole. No clue unless he's setting up to stop a top side and counter. Anything else it's Stuart Pearce type of management about effort, passion and giving 100% whilst relying on individual quality. 

Man Utd have a very good squad, it's just got a third rate manager and nothing coaches running it.

Bring in Poch if he's unsettled, get rid of De Gea, Pogba and Martial, invest in a CB, DM, RW and striker and that side will challenge for titles whilst playing brilliant football.

That won't happen. Instead Ole will stay, Pogba gets a crazy new deal to stop him going for free, Ole won't have the backbone to sell Martial, no one of note will come in bar Sancho and it'll be a huge battle for Top 4 at best. Utd got so lucky this season, the performances were horrendous bar a handful of second half turnarounds and a few early results in the CL. Theres no style, no attacking intent and the defence is horrific at set pieces.

I said it all along, they're a horrible football side that's full of arrogance. Wednesday highlighted that in a nutshell. Next season will get toxic very quickly, the fans are a powder keg ready to explode and the results will turn to reflect the performances.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2021)

Slime said:



			2nd best!
		
Click to expand...


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## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398201293785776129English football fans abroad 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Slime (May 28, 2021)

4LEX said:



*I said it all along, they're a horrible football side that's full of arrogance.* Wednesday highlighted that in a nutshell. Next season will get toxic very quickly, the fans are a powder keg ready to explode and the results will turn to reflect the performances.
		
Click to expand...

You've said that numerous times, I just wonder why you keep watching them and commenting how much you despise them, their manager and just about everything about them.
Teams I don't like just don't make it onto my TV screen.


----------



## pokerjoke (May 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			You've said that numerous times, I just wonder why you keep watching them and commenting how much you despise them, their manager and just about everything about them.
Teams I don't like just don't make it onto my TV screen.
		
Click to expand...

He also said we had a good squad and in the next sentence we need 4 new players.
We have enough non Utd supporters to slate us.


----------



## hairball_89 (May 29, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			We have enough non Utd supporters to slate us.
		
Click to expand...

This will never be true. There will never be "enough" slating of man utd. 

That's just the way it is, I'm afraid!


----------



## pokerjoke (May 29, 2021)

Swansea 1 Brentford 0 on the national anthems


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 29, 2021)

39 football fans lost their lives at Heysel Stadium on this day 36 years ago. RIP 🙏


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 29, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			39 football fans lost their lives at Heysel Stadium on this day 36 years ago. RIP 🙏
		
Click to expand...

One of those moments in life I can remember vividly still. Awful event.


----------



## fundy (May 29, 2021)

Great to see Brentford come up rather than one of the yoyo clubs. Love the approach theyve had there and hope they can build on it


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One of those moments in life I can remember vividly still. Awful event.
		
Click to expand...

It was awful watching it unfold - a tragic day 😢


----------



## hairball_89 (May 29, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			39 football fans lost their lives at Heysel Stadium on this day 36 years ago. RIP 🙏
		
Click to expand...

My Dad was there. Remembers it like it was yesterday. Mum and him had only recently got married and even now you can tell how worried she was for him and my grandad, who went too.

Just horrendous. RIP.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			My Dad was there. Remembers it like it was yesterday. Mum and him had only recently got married and even now you can tell how worried she was for him and my grandad, who went too.

Just horrendous. RIP.
		
Click to expand...

My uncles best friend was there and hasnt been to a match since 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398592388071931906


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

CL Final time 

Interesting line ups - no Fernandinho for City and Sterling starts 

Chelsea go for both James and Azpilcueta with Werner the main striker 

And i thought Scholes and Ferdinand couldn’t be beaten as the dullest pundits but they have beaten that tonight with Joe Cole 🤦‍♂️


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## Dando (May 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			CL Final time 

Interesting line ups - no Fernandinho for City and Sterling starts 

Chelsea go for both James and Azpilcueta with Werner the main striker 

And i thought Scholes and Ferdinand couldn’t be beaten as the dullest pundits but they have beaten that tonight with Joe Cole 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Choosing who you want to win is like picking which testicle you want removing


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

Dando said:



			Choosing who you want to win is like picking which testicle you want removing
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea for me


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## chrisd (May 29, 2021)

Chelsea for me - for BlueinMunich!


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## Dando (May 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Chelsea for me
		
Click to expand...

Is that the left or right one testicle?

To be honest I’ll be silently cheering on Chelsea


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## Dando (May 29, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Chelsea for me - for BlueinMunich!
		
Click to expand...

Someone wants a round at cuddington


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## fundy (May 29, 2021)

Cheer on who youve backed imho 

Go on the left testicle


----------



## fundy (May 29, 2021)

whats with the "alternative" camera angle


----------



## Fade and Die (May 29, 2021)

I assume everyone knows it’s on You tube but just in case......


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

Wow what a great ball that was - nice finish , Ederson maybe rushed out too quickly


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## chrisd (May 29, 2021)

Dando said:



			Someone wants a round at cuddington
		
Click to expand...

Hoping to re create our game in Bermuda!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 29, 2021)

Good first half, let’s hope it continues.


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## pokerjoke (May 29, 2021)

False number 9 not working Aguero has to come on.
Very impressive Chelsea 
Werner movement is great but go’s his end product is shocking


----------



## fundy (May 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow what a great ball that was - nice finish , Ederson maybe rushed out too quickly
		
Click to expand...


did really well not to get himself sent off ultimately, oh if only the crazy German couldve done that in 2006

expect Pep brings on one of Rodri/Fernandinho in the middle probably for Bernardo


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## Piece (May 29, 2021)

Pep being schooled here. Needs a different approach second half. Ciry ball players just not getting on the ball and false 9 ain't working. Sterling central, Foden left, and a holding midfielder to come on. 

Where was Stones for the Chelsea goal? Covering Walker may be. Too many gaps.

Top stuff from Chelsea


----------



## davemc1 (May 29, 2021)

Peps got this badly wrong so far. Big ht for city. 

Good game for the nearly neutral tho


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			did really well not to get himself sent off ultimately, oh if only the crazy German couldve done that in 2006

expect Pep brings on one of Rodri/Fernandinho in the middle probably for Bernardo
		
Click to expand...

Yep - he ended up making it easier for Havertz

It was a surprise not to pick on DM there and it’s left those CB’s exposed . Is it going to end up being another selection mistake from Pep trying to be too clever


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## 4LEX (May 29, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			He also said we had a good squad and in the next sentence we need 4 new players.
We have enough non Utd supporters to slate us.
		
Click to expand...

You do have a good squad. A lot of quality but the manager is lacking. If you want to win the title and CL you'll need a new mamnager and four players minimum while binning off the half baked passengers. Personally rather see Utd back at the top compared to City or Chelsea.


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## 4LEX (May 29, 2021)

Sterling really has hit a brickwall in the last 6 months. Works hard, runs a lot but no end product - lazy passes/crosses or scatty shots. City haven't been that bad, just wasted 4-5 dangerous attacks. Chelsea have been superb, such a well run side and chased everything. City in extra time or pens for me.....


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## Papas1982 (May 29, 2021)

I’m quite enjoying this. 

Will be interesting to see how pep reacts if then ends up with a Chelsea win.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

That looks nasty for De Bryune - not a nice way to come off the pitch


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## fundy (May 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That looks nasty for De Bryune - not a nice way to come off the pitch
		
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not good at all, surprised Pep not changed the shape more than bringing a striker on


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			not good at all, surprised Pep not changed the shape more than bringing a striker on
		
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Fernadinho first act was to commit a yellow card tackle but as per normal he gets away with it 😂


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## fundy (May 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Fernadinho first act was to commit a yellow card tackle but as per normal he gets away with it 😂
		
Click to expand...

less than 6/4 to be booked despite coming on with less than half an hour to go 🤣🤣🤣


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## Dando (May 29, 2021)

John terry is putting his kit on


----------



## Piece (May 29, 2021)

Let's face it, this Final is as crap as the Euro League one.


----------



## BiMGuy (May 29, 2021)

Piece said:



			Let's face it, this Final is as crap as the Euro League one.
		
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Most cup finals are.


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## fundy (May 29, 2021)

Congrats to BIM, Pieman and any other Chelsea fans, even those who are no longer with us 

Better side on the night, thought Kante was something else tonight. Some start for Tuchel at the club, can only go one way from here 

Jorginho wins tonight acting clown award haha


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 29, 2021)

Piece said:



			Let's face it, this Final is as crap as the Euro League one.
		
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Much, much better than the other night.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

Well that was the best of the worst choice 

City were very poor on the night , Pep needs to look at himself for his strange choice ( once again at the big stage ) 

Chelsea were outstanding at the back , back 5 and what a player Kante is


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 29, 2021)

Congratulations Chelsea, fully deserved tonight, thought Chillwell and James were excellent, Kante motm.


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## SteveW86 (May 29, 2021)

Thought that was a decent game, only caught the first half on the radio as was in the car, but it sounded like Pep got it wrong with the set up of the City team.


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## BiMGuy (May 29, 2021)

Pep trying to be to cleaver and paying the price.


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## Piece (May 29, 2021)

Dare I say, that was easy for Chelsea.

Big inquest on that City starting XI and tactics.

Congrats to Chelsea, thoroughly deserved.


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## IanM (May 29, 2021)

City hardly landed a punch...


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## Dando (May 29, 2021)

Pep out!


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## clubchamp98 (May 29, 2021)

Congrats to Chelsea .
Really solid defensive unit ,had City where they wanted them playing in front of them.
Both fullbacks were brilliant.
Bit disappointing from City ,one shot on target ??
Pep overthinking it, don’t like the false nine just didn’t work.

Kante MOM


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## chrisd (May 29, 2021)

James was immense, especially the first half


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## Dando (May 29, 2021)

chrisd said:



			James was immense, especially the first half
		
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Thanks


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## fundy (May 29, 2021)

chrisd said:



			James was immense, especially the first half
		
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just emptied his pockets, keys, phone, Sterling


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

Maybe Pep needs to get Messi to help him win the CL again 😁 wonder what the City players will be singing on the plane this time 😉


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2021)

Congrats to Chelsea, deffo the best team. I thought Kante was immense.
Hope the neutrals enjoyed it


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## Piece (May 29, 2021)

Thought the ref was excellent tonight


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## clubchamp98 (May 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Congrats to Chelsea, deffo the best team. I thought Kante was immense.
Hope the neutrals enjoyed it
		
Click to expand...

Yes I did .
A proper cup tie.
Just a mention for the ref thought he was very good , no nonsense.


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## pokerjoke (May 29, 2021)

Look out for the drone show soon


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## chrisd (May 29, 2021)

Dando said:



			Thanks
		
Click to expand...


I said immense, should have said fat!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)

What a brilliant response by Havertz to a poor question 😂


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## fundy (May 29, 2021)

Gotta feel sorry for the Fulham fans today lol, Brentford promoted and Chelsea win the Champions League in a year when you got relegated. Does it get any worse?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2021)




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## Blue in Munich (May 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Congrats to Chelsea, deffo the best team. I thought Kante was immense.
Hope the neutrals enjoyed it
		
Click to expand...

  Fair play to you & thanks.  Was Pep too confident or too clever?

The whole back 5 was immense, especially Christensen when he came on.  Kante is something else. 

As others have said, the referee was excellent.

Pointless fact of the day; 71% of the world is covered by water, the rest is covered by Ngolo Kante.  Right, off to the scotch cupboard.


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## pokerjoke (May 29, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Look out for the drone show soon
		
Click to expand...

On Chelsea Fc on Facebook 
My daughters work


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## Papas1982 (May 29, 2021)

Still can't quite  believe how Sarri and Lampard tried to utilise Kante.

Best DM since the man who had the position named after him.


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



  Fair play to you & thanks.  Was Pep too confident or too clever?

The whole back 5 was immense, especially Christensen when he came on.  Kante is something else.

As others have said, the referee was excellent.

Pointless fact of the day; 71% of the world is covered by water, the rest is covered by Ngolo Kante.  Right, off to the scotch cupboard.
		
Click to expand...

Watched it at daughters what with them having BT. I said I don’t mind if City get beat as long as we play well. We didn’t. If I had a penny for every person that said to me we will walk. Quite frankly I found it a bit irritating and disrespectful to Chelsea. We’re CIty favourites. Probably, but so were Utd. I thought Chelsea to a man were immense. But City starting with Sterling, sweet mother don’t get me started. I don’t want to focus on City coz Chelsea should of been outta sight before a small late rally last off. Only the blinkered would say City should of had summat outta that game.
Finally Tuchel, take a bow son.


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## Blue in Munich (May 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Watched it at daughters what with them having BT. I said I don’t mind if City get beat as long as we play well. We didn’t. If I had a penny for every person that said to me we will walk. Quite frankly I found it a bit irritating and disrespectful to Chelsea. We’re CIty favourites. Probably, but so were Utd. I thought Chelsea to a man were immense. But City starting with Sterling, sweet mother don’t get me started. I don’t want to focus on City coz Chelsea should of been outta sight before a small late rally last off. Only the blinkered would say City should of had summat outta that game.
Finally Tuchel, take a bow son.
		
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Hope that the KDB injury is not too serious


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## Blue in Munich (May 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



*Watched it at daughters* what with them having BT. I said I don’t mind if City get beat as long as we play well. We didn’t. If I had a penny for every person that said to me we will walk. Quite frankly I found it a bit irritating and disrespectful to Chelsea. We’re CIty favourites. Probably, but so were Utd. I thought Chelsea to a man were immense. But City starting with Sterling, sweet mother don’t get me started. I don’t want to focus on City coz Chelsea should of been outta sight before a small late rally last off. Only the blinkered would say City should of had summat outta that game.
Finally Tuchel, take a bow son.
		
Click to expand...

Didn't travel to Porto then... 

Sorry, couldn't resist.   

I may get Fraggered...


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Didn't travel to Porto then... 

Sorry, couldn't resist.  

I may get Fraggered... 

Click to expand...

😂😂👍 Ave actually been to Porto for a weekend wi Missis T. Gorgeous City. Had me best ever breakfast in Porto.


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Hope that the KDB injury is not too serious 

Click to expand...

Was a bit gutted for KDB and Silva going off in a final like that.


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## Blue in Munich (May 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Was a bit gutted for KDB and Silva going off in a final like that.
		
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Silva will at least have the consolation of the result.


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## Golfmmad (May 29, 2021)

Cheers Richard! 🥃


----------



## Slime (May 30, 2021)

I'm happy for you BiM.
Just catching up with it and it seems it was thoroughly deserved. 
Unquestionably the best team in London.


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## chrisd (May 30, 2021)

A good match to watch for the neutral.  

City struggle imo now that Aguero is not a regular, and, for me, Jesus is not a regular enough goal scorer, Sterling is still too hit or miss and the Chelsea defence played one of the best collective games I've seen them play ever. For me, City can knock it around as much as they like in a Barcelona style but they never really looked like scoring and I still think Stones is too unpredictable, he always looks like there is a slip up in the making. 

Like others, I thought the referee was superb and whilst he could never be the star of the game he certainly helped make it a game for the neutral


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## PhilTheFragger (May 30, 2021)

So the question is……….
Is @Blue in Munich  going to change his moniker to Blue in Porto? Or as he wasn’t there in person this time, maybe Blue in Lounge

😂🤭


----------



## pauljames87 (May 30, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			So the question is……….
Is @Blue in Munich  going to change his moniker to Blue in Porto? Or as he wasn’t there in person this time, maybe Blue in Lounge

😂🤭
		
Click to expand...

 2blue.. oh wait


----------



## Sats (May 30, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



  Fair play to you & thanks.  Was Pep too confident or too clever?

The whole back 5 was immense, especially Christensen when he came on.  Kante is something else.

As others have said, the referee was excellent.

Pointless fact of the day; 71% of the world is covered by water, the rest is covered by Ngolo Kante.  Right, off to the scotch cupboard.
		
Click to expand...

Great final - longest 7 mins of my life! 
Another fact, Ngolo Kante lost his virginity at 14 and upon losing it he won it back!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2021)

😁


----------



## pauljames87 (May 30, 2021)

Ignoring the date in the last picture that was to fit the thing by looks but what a career 

As if somebody played him attacking midfield!


----------



## AmandaJR (May 30, 2021)

So disappointed. Team selection/formation quite clearly wrong and didn't work from the first minute. Pep has to take the blame for that and not sure why he sometimes tries to be clever/quirky. Chelsea defended faultlessly yet never looked to be parking the bus - every time they had the ball they passed our non-existent midfield and were on to our very shaky looking defence. If we'd played well and lost it would feel less depressing...

Thought the ref did ok apart from buying into the fact that Azpic...(however its spelled) had broken a leg or at least dislocated a knee and stopped the game!


----------



## Tashyboy (May 30, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			So disappointed. Team selection/formation quite clearly wrong and didn't work from the first minute. Pep has to take the blame for that and not sure why he sometimes tries to be clever/quirky. Chelsea defended faultlessly yet never looked to be parking the bus - every time they had the ball they passed our non-existent midfield and were on to our very shaky looking defence. If we'd played well and lost it would feel less depressing...

Thought the ref did ok apart from buying into the fact that Azpic...(however its spelled) had broken a leg or at least dislocated a knee and stopped the game!
		
Click to expand...

Pep changed it again and for the life of me I don’t know why. The defence has been solid most of the season being protected. I suppose the game could be summed up by a team that protected its defence well ( Konte etc) and one that didn’t.
That said, gotta mention again that Tuchel set it up well.


----------



## pauljames87 (May 30, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			So disappointed. Team selection/formation quite clearly wrong and didn't work from the first minute. Pep has to take the blame for that and not sure why he sometimes tries to be clever/quirky. Chelsea defended faultlessly yet never looked to be parking the bus - every time they had the ball they passed our non-existent midfield and were on to our very shaky looking defence. If we'd played well and lost it would feel less depressing...

Thought the ref did ok apart from buying into the fact that Azpic...(however its spelled) had broken a leg or at least dislocated a knee and stopped the game!
		
Click to expand...

Surely for the final that's a must win, the one trophy he wants at citeh you have to start augero


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## AmandaJR (May 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Surely for the final that's a must win, the one trophy he wants at citeh you have to start augero
		
Click to expand...

My heart says yes but my head would say he's not match fit/sharp. But yes start with him perhaps knowing he wouldn't last the full 90. The formation didn't bring out the best in our stellar players in De Bruyne and Foden...hardly heard their names mentioned (before the assault on Kevin!).

As for Sterling...started better than of late but James had him every time.


----------



## Tashyboy (May 30, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			My heart says yes but my head would say he's not match fit/sharp. But yes start with him perhaps knowing he wouldn't last the full 90. The formation didn't bring out the best in our stellar players in De Bruyne and Foden...hardly heard their names mentioned (before the assault on Kevin!).

As for Sterling...started better than of late but James had him every time.
		
Click to expand...

Me heart told me to start with him, me head told me his legs have gone ☹️


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## AmandaJR (May 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Me heart told me to start with him, me head told me his legs have gone ☹️
		
Click to expand...

I shed a wee tear when he came on...was already feeling emotional mind you!


----------



## Tashyboy (May 30, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I shed a wee tear when he came on...was already feeling emotional mind you!
		
Click to expand...

Have you heard of KDBs injuries ☹️


----------



## Tashyboy (May 30, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57299661
☹️


----------



## Kellfire (May 30, 2021)

Can’t see KDB playing in the Euros.


----------



## Fade and Die (May 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Have you heard of KDBs injuries ☹️
		
Click to expand...

Shame Rudiger cannot be done for assault really. It was clearly a deliberate act.






Pity really as it casts a bit of a cloud over what was a really good final.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			So disappointed. Team selection/formation quite clearly wrong and didn't work from the first minute. Pep has to take the blame for that and not sure why he sometimes tries to be clever/quirky. Chelsea defended faultlessly yet never looked to be parking the bus - every time they had the ball they passed our non-existent midfield and were on to our very shaky looking defence. If we'd played well and lost it would feel less depressing...

Thought the ref did ok apart from buying into the fact that Azpic...(however its spelled) had broken a leg or at least dislocated a knee and stopped the game!
		
Click to expand...

I really can’t understand his thinking of changing things - maybe the two recent defeats against Chelse had something to do with it but Sterling is in poor form at the moment and Fernandinho or Rodri are key to allowing KDB to just go and play , 

As for Azpiclietia - the way the ref reacted it was a very serious injury and then they showed the replay which straight away said it wasn’t a serious injury but you can see most teams doing it when they are trying to hold out 

Hope KDB is fit for the Euros - special player and that’s a shocking injury


----------



## garyinderry (May 30, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Shame Rudiger cannot be done for assault really. It was clearly a deliberate act.






Pity really as it casts a bit of a cloud over what was a really good final.
		
Click to expand...


Nothing in it at all.  Yellow card for stopping the man.  The injury is extremely unfortunate.


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## Blue in Munich (May 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Look out for the drone show soon
		
Click to expand...




pokerjoke said:



			On Chelsea Fc on Facebook
My daughters work
		
Click to expand...


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## Dando (May 30, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Shame Rudiger cannot be done for assault really. It was clearly a deliberate act.






Pity really as it casts a bit of a cloud over what was a really good final.
		
Click to expand...

Assault??😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Shame Rudiger cannot be done for assault really. It was clearly a deliberate act.






Pity really as it casts a bit of a cloud over what was a really good final.
		
Click to expand...

It’s a foul , a block and a very unfortunate injury but it’s no more than a yellow card. 

Certainly not an assault


----------



## Blue in Munich (May 30, 2021)




----------



## AmandaJR (May 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Have you heard of KDBs injuries ☹️
		
Click to expand...

He did look in a lot of pain - hope he's ok for the Euros.


----------



## Slime (May 30, 2021)

garyinderry said:



			Nothing in it at all.  Yellow card for stopping the man.  The injury is extremely unfortunate.
		
Click to expand...

The foul was 100% deliberate, the injuries were 100% accidental.


----------



## Billysboots (May 30, 2021)

Kante deserves every single one of the plaudits. He is an immense player.

Mate of mine is a Leicester City season ticket holder and said that back in 2015/16, when all the talk was of Vardy and his goals, the title win was down to Kante. His departure was a massive loss.

The best defensive midfielder in the Premier League by an absolute mile.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Kante deserves every single one of the plaudits. He is an immense player.

Mate of mine is a Leicester City season ticket holder and said that back in 2015/16, when all the talk was of Vardy and his goals, the title win was down to Kante. His departure was a massive loss.

The best defensive midfielder in the Premier League by an absolute mile.
		
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Best defensive midfielder in world football not just the Premier League - with him and Fabinho the Prem has the best two in that role and they are both outstanding to watch


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## Fade and Die (May 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a foul , a block and a very unfortunate injury but it’s no more than a yellow card.

Certainly not an assault
		
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I think it’s more of a shoulder charge than a block. In the slow-mo you can see he is not just standing still to block him but actually moving towards KDB. Looked deliberate to me, now I’m not saying he intended to cause the injuries that he did but when you take someone out in full flight you must accept the consequences of your actions.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			I think it’s more of a shoulder charge than a block. In the slow-mo you can see he is not just standing still to block him but actually moving towards KDB. Looked deliberate to me, now I’m not saying he intended to cause the injuries that he did but when you take someone out in full flight you must accept the consequences of your actions.
		
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It’s still just a yellow card at most , if the arm was swinging etc then a red for violent conduct but it was deliberate block to ensure that KDB didn’t get past him


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## Fade and Die (May 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s still just a yellow card at most , if the arm was swinging etc then a red for violent conduct but it was deliberate block to ensure that KDB didn’t get past him
		
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Think the swinging arm is irrelevant, the no arm tackle is a straight red in rugby.


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## Kellfire (May 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Best defensive midfielder in world football not just the Premier League - with him and Fabinho the Prem has the best two in that role and they are both outstanding to watch
		
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It’s not like you to strong arm a Liverpool player into a best player discussion...

Fernandinho is better, albeit almost done, as is Ndidi.


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## Dando (May 30, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			It’s not like you to strong arm a Liverpool player into a best player discussion...

Fernandinho is better, albeit almost done, as is Ndidi.
		
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Fernandinho is better at disrupting play by cynical fouling


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## Tashyboy (May 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			Fernandinho is better at disrupting play by cynical fouling
		
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Am not to sure he has ever put anyone in hospital though.


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## Dando (May 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am not to sure he has ever put anyone in hospital though.
		
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Never said he has mate, but he’s  a horrible niggly player who for some reason gets away with it and the pundits think he’s being clever


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## clubchamp98 (May 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am not to sure he has ever put anyone in hospital though.
		
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Only through luck.
He’s there to stop players and isn’t very subtle about it.


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## Tashyboy (May 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			Never said he has mate, but he’s  a horrible niggly player who for some reason gets away with it and the pundits think he’s being clever
		
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I think under Pep, City, Fernandinho, Gundo and a few others learned the dark arts of disrupting play. There’s only Kompany I can think of from the top of my head where challenges were put in and someone could of got hurt. 
Just reading a piece where Martinez of Belgium is not impressed with Rudigers challenge. He has gone on record and said why did Rudiger go down holding his face when he clearly wiped out KDB with his shoulder. He says Rudiger knew exactly what he was doing. What’s disappointing is Rudiger played with a face shield due to a facial injury he sustained and has done it to another player. That aside, it ain’t gonna change history.


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## clubchamp98 (May 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think under Pep, City, Fernandinho, Gundo and a few others learned the dark arts of disrupting play. There’s only Kompany I can think of from the top of my head where challenges were put in and someone could of got hurt. 
Just reading a piece where Martinez of Belgium is not impressed with Rudigers challenge. He has gone on record and said why did Rudiger go down holding his face when he clearly wiped out KDB with his shoulder. He says Rudiger knew exactly what he was doing. What’s disappointing is Rudiger played with a face shield due to a facial injury he sustained and has done it to another player. That aside, it ain’t gonna change history.
		
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There was one by Fernandinho in a recent defeat “ can’t remember who) you were 2-1 down and he chopped a player down from behind no attempt at the ball ( my pet hate) to stop him he’s just been fortunate he hasn’t hurt anyone.
Great footballer bad fouler.
But all teams need one to some degree.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think under Pep, City, Fernandinho, Gundo and a few others learned the dark arts of disrupting play. There’s only Kompany I can think of from the top of my head where challenges were put in and someone could of got hurt.
Just reading a piece where Martinez of Belgium is not impressed with Rudigers challenge. He has gone on record and said why did Rudiger go down holding his face when he clearly wiped out KDB with his shoulder. He says Rudiger knew exactly what he was doing. What’s disappointing is Rudiger played with a face shield due to a facial injury he sustained and has done it to another player. That aside, it ain’t gonna change history.
		
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Getting close to accusing a player of looking to deliberately hurt another when that’s clearly not the case

Rudiger committed a foul and was punished for that - the injury was very unfortunate and hopefully KDB recovers quickly 

And of course Martinez is going to say what he has - he may well lose his best player for the Euros


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## AmandaJR (May 30, 2021)

Rudiger deliberately and aggressively took De Bruyne out with a shoulder to his face. He may not have meant to cause the serious damage he did - but he was willing to take that chance. Not grab a shirt or pull back - get in hard and fast and make sure the player doesn't get past.

Then pretended he was in fact hurt. Cynical and very dirty.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			There was one by Fernandinho in a recent defeat “ can’t remember who) you were 2-1 down and he chopped a player down from behind no attempt at the ball ( my pet hate) to stop him he’s just been fortunate he hasn’t hurt anyone.
Great footballer bad fouler.
But all teams need one to some degree.
		
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http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2021/...-on-raphinha-2021-at-the-end-red-card-or-not/

One against Leeds 






Mount


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 30, 2021)

Great to see Blackpool win promotion to the Championship. Fans deserve it.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2021)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-racially-abused-online-after-cl-final-defeat

Disgraceful again 

The sooner social media companies bring in identify proof the better 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/56940793.amp

This is also not great to see


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## Slime (May 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Getting close to accusing a player of looking to deliberately hurt another when that’s clearly not the case

Rudiger committed a foul and was punished for that - the injury was very unfortunate and hopefully KDB recovers quickly

And of course Martinez is going to say what he has - he may well lose his best player for the Euros
		
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I'm sure he tried to hurt him, just not injure him.


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## clubchamp98 (May 30, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Rudiger deliberately and aggressively took De Bruyne out with a shoulder to his face. He may not have meant to cause the serious damage he did - but he was willing to take that chance. Not grab a shirt or pull back - get in hard and fast and make sure the player doesn't get past.

Then pretended he was in fact hurt. Cynical and very dirty.
		
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Sorry Amanda but City fans complaining about Cynical fouling .
You won the league with this as part of the plan.


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## AmandaJR (May 31, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry Amanda but City fans complaining about Cynical fouling .
You won the league with this as part of the plan.
		
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For sure and we get slaughtered on here for it so just re-addressing the balance!


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## clubchamp98 (May 31, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			For sure and we get slaughtered on here for it so just re-addressing the balance!
		
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Yes it was a bit of a cynical foul.
Don’t think he tried to hurt KBD.
Imo he turned his shoulder into him to protect himself given he had a face injury himself.
Maybe could and should have been red. After watching it again.
Pity if he misses the Euros , I like watching him as a footballer.
But imho the refs need to stamp this cynical breaking up of play as it was only a matter of time before this happened.
The offside rule is the same someone’s going to get hurt ,just put your flag up.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 31, 2021)

Wow that’s never a penalty and the fellow has taken a dive - huge decision


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## fundy (May 31, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow that’s never a penalty and the fellow has taken a dive - huge decision
		
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even worse when you see the pen he didnt give Newport in the first half of normal time where the keeper punched someone in the head lol


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## fundy (May 31, 2021)

Maybe Bruno is that good 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399352713406828545


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## Liverbirdie (May 31, 2021)

fundy said:



			Maybe Bruno is that good 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399352713406828545

Click to expand...

It makes the strikers look bad now. Stats, eh? 

Congrats to Chelsea, I offered it to some of the stalwarts on here, personally, but for the others well done.


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## Pin-seeker (May 31, 2021)

fundy said:



			Maybe Bruno is that good 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399352713406828545

Click to expand...

He can’t be,because other top clubs weren’t in for him 😂


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## pokerjoke (May 31, 2021)

This Portugal vs Italy games a great watch


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## fundy (May 31, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			This Portugal vs Italy games a great watch
		
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some cracking football, some less so theatrics, they teach em young lol


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 31, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			This Portugal vs Italy games a great watch
		
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The Denmark v Germany game was decent and now gone to penalties.

Edit: Germany win it 6-5.


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## GG26 (May 31, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Kante deserves every single one of the plaudits. He is an immense player.

Mate of mine is a Leicester City season ticket holder and said that back in 2015/16, when all the talk was of Vardy and his goals, the title win was down to Kante. His departure was a massive loss.

The best defensive midfielder in the Premier League by an absolute mile.
		
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Agreed.  Back in 2015/16 he was immense, although the the title win was down to a collective effort of which he was definitely one of the central cogs.

We are fortunate in that we fairly quickly found a replacement, Ndidi, who doesn't have the same engine, but is as good a tackler and interceptor of the ball.


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## Beezerk (Jun 1, 2021)

Greenwood has pulled out of the squad due to an injury or something,  shame I think he's a great player.
Positive news though, rumours are Lingard won't make the final squad 😅


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2021)

So with Greenwood out that will mean Watkins in which is great reward for him 

The 6 others I see missing out are 

Ramsdale
TAA
White
Godfrey
Ward Prowse
Lingard

If Maguire is injured then straight choice between white and Godfrey


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## GB72 (Jun 1, 2021)

Out of interest, I wonder how the Euros differs from the Champions League in that these matches can go ahead at Wembley but not the Champions League final. Do UEFA have no sponsors etc that have to be allowed in to matches. Are they all quarantining etc. 

International sporting tournaments do still concern me a bit on a global basis. The struggles to force the Olympics to take place, Copa America being moved out of a covid hotspot into the home of once of the variants of concern, lions tour still off to South Africa, travel restrictions across Europe but the Euros can go ahead. Not being a killjoy but just cannot quite get the logic of this.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399696308395520015
Looks like Real Madrid have decided who their new manager will be 

Everton potentially looking for someone new - Howe is free but then so is the Big Man - Allardyce 🙏


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## PieMan (Jun 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Out of interest, I wonder how the Euros differs from the Champions League in that these matches can go ahead at Wembley but not the Champions League final. 




			Still very, very happy the CL Final took place in Portugal......... 😉 😂
		
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Click to expand...


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399696308395520015
Looks like Real Madrid have decided who their new manager will be

Everton potentially looking for someone new - Howe is free but then so is the Big Man - Allardyce 🙏
		
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3 years left on his deal. We want a big payoff, a choice of 2 players (Isco ideally and one other for the hell of it), 3 replica shirts, 2 commerative glasses and 5 mouse mats . It will be a shame if he goes but Real Madrid are a big beast and I would wish him well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			3 years left on his deal. We want a big payoff, a choice of 2 players (Isco ideally and one other for the hell of it), 3 replica shirts, 2 commerative glasses and 5 mouse mats . It will be a shame if he goes but Real Madrid are a big beast and I would wish him well.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399709865275240450
Looks like it’s done and dusted


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399709865275240450
Looks like it’s done and dusted
		
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I hope we held out for the commerative glasses .

In all honesty, we can not block a move like that. We just have to get the best deal we can and wish him well. At least if it happens now we can hopefully get someone in quickly so that we don't lose the summer. The biggest blow is his name brought us players we may otherwise not have got but life moves on.


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## Reemul (Jun 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I hope we held out for the commerative glasses .

In all honesty, we can not block a move like that. We just have to get the best deal we can and wish him well. At least if it happens now we can hopefully get someone in quickly so that we don't lose the summer. The biggest blow is his name brought us players we may otherwise not have got but life moves on.
		
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Well it's not going to be helped with Spurs, Palace and Wolves also needing new managers as well. Jesus we need someone decent and more long term


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 1, 2021)

Reemul said:



			Well it's not going to be helped with Spurs, Palace and Wolves also needing new managers as well. Jesus we need someone decent and more long term
		
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Wolves will go down the Portugese route (shouldn't affect us), Palace should not be in the same game as us. Spurs are obsessing about Poch so we need to be quick whilst they are distracted. I may have gone slightly soft but Howe is someone I think we should have a serious look at. If not then the fad is for European managers and I don't know enough about the intricacies of the European leagues to comment.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I hope we held out for the commerative glasses .

In all honesty, we can not block a move like that. We just have to get the best deal we can and wish him well. At least if it happens now we can hopefully get someone in quickly so that we don't lose the summer. The biggest blow is his name brought us players we may otherwise not have got but life moves on.
		
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Apparently the name in the mix is one “Steven Gerrard” 😲


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apparently the name in the mix is one “Steven Gerrard” 😲
		
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I think that says it all.


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## fundy (Jun 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apparently the name in the mix is one “Steven Gerrard” 😲
		
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Moyes spotting doing some shopping in Liverpool earlier


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2021)

four right backs 😂😂


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## fundy (Jun 1, 2021)

assume hes treating walker and/or james as centre halves so that he could pick all 4, does seem lopsided, think Watkins would have given an alternative option and Lingaard a bit unlucky based on recent form


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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 36876

four right backs 😂😂
		
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Where’s Watkins?


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## pokerjoke (Jun 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So with Greenwood out that will mean Watkins in which is great reward for him 

The 6 others I see missing out are 

Ramsdale
TAA
White
Godfrey
Ward Prowse
Lingard

If Maguire is injured then straight choice between white and Godfrey
		
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Couldn’t tell us your source could you spot on as usual.
Hockey’s your sport


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## hairball_89 (Jun 1, 2021)

I'd say Coady and Saka relatively lucky to get in. But Coady screams 3 at the back again, you definitely wouldn't pick him to part of a 2. 

Think Watkins is unlucky. Otherwise the rest of the squad seems to pick itself.


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## road2ruin (Jun 1, 2021)

I cannot see why the squad needs 4 RB's and 3 defensive midfielders, the former is especially confusing and an error for me. I would have taken Ward Prowse to give more options in the creative areas.


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## fundy (Jun 1, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			I'd say Coady and Saka relatively lucky to get in. But Coady screams 3 at the back again, you definitely wouldn't pick him to part of a 2. 

Think Watkins is unlucky. Otherwise the rest of the squad seems to pick itself.
		
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Saka another who has likely benefitted from being versatile and able to cover a variety of positions (arteta clearly likes to play him somewhere else each week lol) the reality is hes likely to sit on the bench for the whole comp, albeit he does offer something a little different to the other options I cant see him being the left footer of choice above Foden or Grealish unless Southgate wants to play him on the right to cut in?


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## fundy (Jun 1, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			I cannot see why the squad needs 4 RB's and 3 defensive midfielders, the former is especially confusing and an error for me. I would have taken Ward Prowse to give more options in the creative areas.
		
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Southgate likes to play 2 holding midfielders, surprised hes only taken 3 tbh with Henderson not fully fit


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## Tashyboy (Jun 1, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			I cannot see why the squad needs 4 RB's and 3 defensive midfielders, the former is especially confusing and an error for me. I would have taken Ward Prowse to give more options in the creative areas.
		
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I looked at the squad and positions on BBC and thought the same.  Furthermore  4 right backs and 5 midfielders in total. It looks a bit top heavy to me.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 1, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I looked at the squad and positions on BBC and thought the same.  Furthermore  4 right backs and 5 midfielders in total. It looks a bit top heavy to me.
		
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I would worry about all the centre backs because they all have mistakes in them and none inspire confidence.
On that point we will need goals and that means creative players and proven goal scorers.
We have some very good creative players but surprised Watkins was left out,but he and Lingard could easily get recalled.


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## fundy (Jun 1, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I looked at the squad and positions on BBC and thought the same.  Furthermore  4 right backs and 5 midfielders in total. It looks a bit top heavy to me.
		
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its only 5 midfielders if you say theres 8 forwards, of those 8 only 2 are out and out strikers (kane and dcl)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			its only 5 midfielders if you say theres 8 forwards, of those 8 only 2 are out and out strikers (kane and dcl)
		
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The whole squad looks very unbalanced with the potential of trying to fit square pegs 

It looks like he is going to go three at the back with two in front so wing backs but that still doesn’t justify going for 4 right backs which seems mental 

Watkins has shown he can play in a number of positions in the front three or two so once Greenwood removed himself he looked a shoe in

So who from that attacking bunch is missing out - 4 spots up for grabs with Kane clearly getting one


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## pendodave (Jun 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Southgate likes to play 2 holding midfielders, surprised hes only taken 3 tbh with Henderson not fully fit
		
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Could he play rice and mount? Better than the Leeds lad who looked out of his froth in the last friendly imho.

As for Henderson. Nailed on if fit,  but why-oh-why are we always trying to rush half fit players into tournaments?? Beckham, gazza, Robbo... it always goes pear shaped.


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## fundy (Jun 1, 2021)

every chance he plays rice and mount in the same side for me yes

think part of the problem is that there are no perceived real standouts, the majority of the attacking options are seen to be of a similar level, most deemed interchangeable, pretty sure Southgate has no idea what his best side is. apart from Kane would you be confident of any of the other attacking midfielders/forwards starting the first game?


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## Slime (Jun 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 36876

four right backs 😂😂
		
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........................ and the best one is not even there!


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## BiMGuy (Jun 1, 2021)

Slime said:



			........................ and the best one is not even there!  

Click to expand...

Yep. Its a disgrace Luke Ayling wasn't picked 😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 1, 2021)

Gutted Ancelotti has gone, I understand the lure of one of the biggest Clubs in the world, but still annoyed after all the statements and interviews he’s given about the future and being part of it.


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## Fade and Die (Jun 1, 2021)

Talk sport reckons the fans are calling for Big Dunc! 🤪


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## Tashyboy (Jun 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			its only 5 midfielders if you say theres 8 forwards, of those 8 only 2 are out and out strikers (kane and dcl)
		
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This is the bit that I find odd with lazy BBC journalism, Fodenis not an out and out midfielder, neither is Stirlin. If Mason Mount was playing for City pep could shoe him in as a false 9 he is that good.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 1, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Talk sport reckons the fans are calling for Big Dunc! 🤪
		
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There are worse out there, but hopefully he won’t get it.
Have absolutely no idea who they’ll go for.🤷‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Jun 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			There are worse out there, but hopefully he won’t get it.
Have absolutely no idea who they’ll go for.🤷‍♂️
		
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If I was an Evertonian, I would be over the moon with Eddie Howe.


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## Fade and Die (Jun 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			There are worse out there, but hopefully he won’t get it.
Have absolutely no idea who they’ll go for.🤷‍♂️
		
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Moyes has been mentioned too. I obviously hope he doesn’t go, I think if our owners back him a bit we could be challenging for Europe again next season.


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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2021)

Everton could do worse than Nuno.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 1, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If I was an Evertonian, I would be over the moon with Eddie Howe.
		
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Fade and Die said:



			Moyes has been mentioned too. I obviously hope he doesn’t go, I think if our owners back him a bit we could be challenging for Europe again next season.
		
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Don’t think we’ll go for Moyes in all honesty, Club won’t of been prepared for this so god knows.


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## IainP (Jun 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Out of interest, I wonder how the Euros differs from the Champions League in that these matches can go ahead at Wembley but not the Champions League final. Do UEFA have no sponsors etc that have to be allowed in to matches. Are they all quarantining etc.

International sporting tournaments do still concern me a bit on a global basis. The struggles to force the Olympics to take place, Copa America being moved out of a covid hotspot into the home of once of the variants of concern, lions tour still off to South Africa, travel restrictions across Europe but the Euros can go ahead. Not being a killjoy but just cannot quite get the logic of this.
		
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Moving the Copa America to Brazil seems a bizarre move  - then again Brazil's president is ... controversial


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## Orikoru (Jun 1, 2021)




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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 2, 2021)

FOUR right backs, that is obviously one of England's weaker spots.
Play Robertson in front of Tierney again and jobs done for Scotland.
Quietly confident now.


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## Orikoru (Jun 2, 2021)

I guess that pretty much confirms we'll be using wing backs then. I imagine Gareth's plan is something like this:
Pickford
Walker - Stones - Maguire
Trippier - Hendo - Rice/Mount - Shaw/Chilwell
Sterling - Kane - Foden?​
Whereas my choice would be:
Henderson
Trent - Maguire - Stones - Shaw
Hendo - Rice/Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I guess that pretty much confirms we'll be using wing backs then. I imagine Gareth's plan is something like this:
Pickford
Walker - Stones - Maguire
Trippier - Hendo - Rice/Mount - Shaw/Chilwell
Sterling - Kane - Foden?​
Whereas my choice would be:
Henderson
Trent - Maguire - Stones - Shaw
Hendo - Rice/Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​

Click to expand...

I would agree with your team except Sancho for Sterling.
Sterling hasn’t played well enough to merit a start for me.
He would make a good impact player after 60 mins when the defenders are tired.


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## Robster59 (Jun 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If I was an Evertonian, I would be over the moon with Eddie Howe.
		
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It's interesting that Eddie Howe turned down Celtic at the last minute last week.......


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## Bazzatron (Jun 2, 2021)

I can't be the only one thinks Eddie Howe is complete rubbish.

Nuno favourite for both Palace and Everton jobs.


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## Orikoru (Jun 2, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



*I can't be the only one thinks Eddie Howe is complete rubbish.*

Nuno favourite for both Palace and Everton jobs.
		
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Honestly mate, this is such a bug bear of mine. His Bournemouth team played reasonably nice football but they conceded a whopping 60-70 goals every season. Their relegation was well overdue. I can't rate any manager who ignores the defence that freely for years. Just a modern day Keegan really.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I guess that pretty much confirms we'll be using wing backs then. I imagine Gareth's plan is something like this:
Pickford
Walker - Stones - Maguire
Trippier - Hendo - Rice/Mount - Shaw/Chilwell
Sterling - Kane - Foden?​
Whereas my choice would be:
Henderson
Trent - Maguire - Stones - Shaw
Hendo - Rice/Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​

Click to expand...

Think that’s about right 

Southgate 

Only change for me would be Bellingham in next to Henderson 

Henderson 

TAA
Maguire
Stones
Chillwell 

Henderson 
Bellingham
Mount/Grealish 

Sancho
Kane
Foden

The only thing it lacks is pace at CB

But that’s a team that can frighten any team 

Even more so when you have the likes of DCL , Sterling, Rashford to come of the bench


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## nickjdavis (Jun 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Honestly mate, this is such a bug bear of mine. His Bournemouth team played reasonably nice football but they conceded a whopping 60-70 goals every season. Their relegation was well overdue. I can't rate any manager who ignores the defence that freely for years. Just a modern day Keegan really.
		
Click to expand...

But Keegan's side would score 70 or 80 goals to compensate


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think that’s about right

Southgate

Only change for me would be Bellingham in next to Henderson

Henderson

TAA
Maguire
Stones
Chillwell

Henderson
Bellingham
Mount/Grealish

Sancho
Kane
Foden

The only thing it lacks is pace at CB

But that’s a team that can frighten any team

Even more so when you have the likes of DCL , Sterling, Rashford to come of the bench
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree about the pace at the back.
I think that’s why Walker is included.
But we should let teams be scared by our offence than sit back.
But Southgate will do the latter imo.
But all our talent is going forward.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree about the pace at the back.
I think that’s why Walker is included.
But we should let teams be scared by our offence than sit back.
But Southgate will do the latter imo.
But all our talent is going forward.
		
Click to expand...

What ever team the golden waistcoat picks, it has to have a combination of experience and youthful energy. If he plays his flair players eg Foden, Sancho, Bellingham, mount And it don’t come off I think Southgate will ride the inevitable storm. If he don’t play them he could well be a championship manager come next season.
personally I am more excited over this crop of players than the golden generation with beckham etc.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 2, 2021)

Abuse conviction

Is this the first online abuse conviction? It certainly goes to show how far spread the problems with social media go... ☹️

And why can’t that be done over here? 😡😡


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## stefanovic (Jun 2, 2021)

I see England are the favourites to win the Euro's.
Just like the last one when they lost to Iceland.
As for Qatar 2022 they are again the favourites.
Strangely the only time they weren't was 1966.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			What ever team the golden waistcoat picks, it has to have a combination of experience and youthful energy. If he plays his flair players eg Foden, Sancho, Bellingham, mount And it don’t come off I think Southgate will ride the inevitable storm. If he don’t play them he could well be a championship manager come next season.
personally I am more excited over this crop of players than the golden generation with beckham etc.
		
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Yes but might have some sympathy off the fans if he has a go with the talent we have.
If he goes with tried and tested he will get the flack imo.

We have the talent to win imo. So let’s go for it.
If it dosnt work the lads will learn o lot for the World Cup ( pep for England job) might start a campaign 

What’s your verdict on Sterling’s form/ inclusion I think he’s bang average and would rather Watkins had a shot.


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## Kellfire (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think that’s about right

Southgate

Only change for me would be Bellingham in next to Henderson

Henderson

TAA
Maguire
Stones
Chillwell

Henderson
Bellingham
Mount/Grealish

Sancho
Kane
Foden

The only thing it lacks is pace at CB

But that’s a team that can frighten any team

Even more so when you have the likes of DCL , Sterling, Rashford to come of the bench
		
Click to expand...

You persist with the least in form right back of the four. At least try to be less biased. Just a little bit?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 2, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You persist with the least in form right back of the four. At least try to be less biased. Just a little bit?
		
Click to expand...

Didn't TAA and Liverpool finish with a massive rise in form at end of season tho?

Just like lingards form tailed off a bit (still got assists but wasn't all action hero) which might have cost him his place


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 2, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			I see England are the favourites to win the Euro's.
Just like the last one when they lost to Iceland.
As for Qatar 2022 they are again the favourites.
Strangely the only time they weren't was 1966.
		
Click to expand...

That’s odd.
In that heat I thought a South American team would be favourites 
But we do have the talent , here’s hoping.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You persist with the least in form right back of the four. At least try to be less biased. Just a little bit?
		
Click to expand...

“Least in form right back of the four” 🙄

He was outstanding for our last ten games whilst we were the form team in the Prem 

Also his stats through the season certainly put him up there as well


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s odd.
In that heat I thought a South American team would be favourites 
But we do have the talent , here’s hoping.
		
Click to expand...


Englands price with the bookies is not a fair reflection of their chances, its a price that ensures maximum profits for the bookie as the majority of those who think "its coming home" are not price sensitive and will back "the boys" at almost any price. By far most emphasised at football but also applies to other sports


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 2, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You persist with the least in form right back of the four. At least try to be less biased. Just a little bit?
		
Click to expand...

Did you actually watch Liverpool’s last 10 games?
TAA was MOM for several of them.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Englands price with the bookies is not a fair reflection of their chances, its a price that ensures maximum profits for the bookie as the majority of those who think "its coming home" are not price sensitive and will back "the boys" at almost any price. By far most emphasised at football but also applies to other sports
		
Click to expand...

That’s why Bookies are all rich.
I just think the heat will play a huge role.


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## Orikoru (Jun 2, 2021)

There's no chance we're the favourites, it has to be France. I'd even put Belgium ahead of us as well, but obviously the odds are dictated by foolish Brit punters.


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s why Bookies are all rich.
I just think the heat will play a huge role.
		
Click to expand...


the funny thing is making them favourite can actually mean they take even more money at the lower prices, a kind of confirmation bias


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## Kellfire (Jun 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Did you actually watch Liverpool’s last 10 games?
TAA was MOM for several of them.
		
Click to expand...

As opposed to the lack of form from the other three?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			As opposed to the lack of form from the other three?
		
Click to expand...

How does that make him - “the least inform” as you suggested , TAA was the outstanding player for a team that was the in form team in the Prem in the last ten games. How have you judged that he is “The least inform” out of the four


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How does that make him - “the least inform” as you suggested , TAA was the outstanding player for a team that was the in form team in the Prem in the last ten games. How have you judged that he is “The least inform” out of the four
		
Click to expand...


Trippiers team won La Liga, James team won the Champions League and Walker won the Premier League, all had decent form at the back end of the season. I guess TAA a bit unlucky to be playing for the lesser team that won nothing than the other 3 guys 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## pokerjoke (Jun 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Did you actually watch Liverpool’s last 10 games?
TAA was MOM for several of them.
		
Click to expand...

Not hard in a crap team and only 2 players in goodish form
The one season wonder and Robertson all the others were well off form.


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## Orikoru (Jun 2, 2021)

I know it's funny to hammer Phil and all, but I don't think you go 100% on who's in the best form when it's subjective anyway. If they're all on form, which apparently they are, I think Trent is the biggest attacking threat of all four and that's why he's there. He also takes a quality set piece which is severely lacking in the rest of the squad.

Anyway, I find the form argument a little bit questionable with Walker. My impression of this season was that he largely lost his starting berth to Cancelo. Obviously he got games because of rotation, but I feel that Cancelo was actually preferred more often, and rightly so as he was the better player. If Southgate wasn't planning the back three with Walker in it, I'm not sure Walker would be in the squad.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I know it's funny to hammer Phil and all, but I don't think you go 100% on who's in the best form when it's subjective anyway. If they're all on form, which apparently they are, I think Trent is the biggest attacking threat of all four and that's why he's there. He also takes a quality set piece which is severely lacking in the rest of the squad.

Anyway, I find the form argument a little bit questionable with Walker. My impression of this season was that he largely lost his starting berth to Cancelo. Obviously he got games because of rotation, but I feel that Cancelo was actually preferred more often, and rightly so as he was the better player. If Southgate wasn't planning the back three with Walker in it, I'm not sure Walker would be in the squad.
		
Click to expand...

And if he was planning a back 4 I don’t think TAA would have been in the squad.
I like TAA going forward but he’s a shocking right back.
My prediction would be if he does play him anywhere it will be against the weaker teams or maybe a bit part player as sub.


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## Orikoru (Jun 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			And if he was planning a back 4 I don’t think TAA would have been in the squad.
I like TAA going forward but he’s a shocking right back.
My prediction would be if he does play him anywhere it will be against the weaker teams or maybe a bit part player as sub.
		
Click to expand...

But he's only played exclusively as a right back for Liverpool? Our group games are against Croatia, Scotland and Czech Rep. The latter two you would want your most attacking presence out wide, and even Croatia are not the team they were in my opinion. 

We could dig down into the stats but I'm not sure James or Trippier are wildly better defensively than Trent anyway. The only really good defensive right back out there is Wan-Bissaka and he has missed out.


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But he's only played exclusively as a right back for Liverpool? Our group games are against Croatia, Scotland and Czech Rep. The latter two you would want your most attacking presence out wide, and even Croatia are not the team they were in my opinion. 

We could dig down into the stats but I'm not sure James or Trippier are wildly better defensively than Trent anyway. The only really good defensive right back out there is Wan-Bissaka and he has missed out.
		
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Not sure how much Spanish football you watch but Trippier is much improved defensively, admittedly in a very well organised side


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But he's only played exclusively as a right back for Liverpool? Our group games are against Croatia, Scotland and Czech Rep. The latter two you would want your most attacking presence out wide, and even Croatia are not the team they were in my opinion.

We could dig down into the stats but I'm not sure James or Trippier are wildly better defensively than Trent anyway. The only really good defensive right back out there is Wan-Bissaka and he has missed out.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397485182467334144
It’s fallacy that TAA can’t defend 

Tackle success:
TAA 57.9%
KW 54.3%
KT 43.9%
RJ 38.8%

Dribbled past p/90:
TAA 0.71
RW 0.74
RJ 1.14
KT 1.16

Ball recoveries p/90:
TAA 9.97
KT 8.87
KW 8.66
RJ 8.18

Only AWB I believe has better defensive stats than TAA.


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

Problem with those specific stats is they dont take into account the amount of times TAA is caught up field or the other side of the ball and the other side attack into the space behind

Stats will be very different depending on how the side plays


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## Orikoru (Jun 2, 2021)

Couldn't help myself...




Trippier is the best defensively, perhaps he'll get the nod in the latter stages - but still not a million miles ahead of Trent is he? 

Walker looks poor on the numbers, but in less games as I said, plus I do think he'll only play as the third CB if he plays. This also suggests James shouldn't be playing many games. I would say Trent against the minnows, maybe Trippier against actual good teams later on.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But he's only played exclusively as a right back for Liverpool? Our group games are against Croatia, Scotland and Czech Rep. The latter two you would want your most attacking presence out wide, and even Croatia are not the team they were in my opinion. 

We could dig down into the stats but I'm not sure James or Trippier are wildly better defensively than Trent anyway. The only really good defensive right back out there is Wan-Bissaka and he has missed out.
		
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Yes surprised WBS missed out that’s why I think he will play a 3
TAA plays RB for Liverpool but imo and it’s only an opinion he can’t defend and he gets too far forward and then teams attack and he’s caught upfield,that why I don’t think he will play much he will leave us exposed.
Haven’t seen Trippier play at all this year,however James although he can chuck in an error will be more disciplined.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Problem with those specific stats is they dont take into account the amount of times TAA is caught up field or the other side of the ball and the other side attack into the space behind

Stats will be very different depending on how the side plays
		
Click to expand...

The way TAA plays within the team gives him the license to go high - that allows teams to get behind him , when we had VVD and Gomez covering then it was risk that was ok as both had the pace cover. When both got injured TAA still played the high line and didn’t have the cover so he was being caught out by the tactics employed by the manager as opposed to his ability to defend. The latter games when Fabinho was back to the middle that allowed the cover more .

It will come down to how Southgate wants to play it I guess

TAA is the only right back I have seen in the past couple of years that has dominated a match and destroyed teams


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

Spot on that it will come down to how Southgate wants to play it, pretty sure he will want his right back to be solid defensively first and foremost and not looking for one to dominate a match and destroy the oppo  Be surprised if Trippier isnt his first choice and Walker be the RCB inside him (funnily enough having Walker as the RCB is exactly what TAA would need to play his normal style too)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Spot on that it will come down to how Southgate wants to play it, pretty sure he will want his right back to be solid defensively first and foremost and not looking for one to dominate a match and destroy the oppo  Be surprised if Trippier isnt his first choice and Walker be the RCB inside him (funnily enough having Walker as the RCB is exactly what TAA would need to play his normal style too)
		
Click to expand...

Which is why I’m amazed he hasn’t gone for AWB he is the best defensive right back - Walker covers his issues with pace , same with James at times. It’s going to be Walker and Trippier


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## Kellfire (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How does that make him - “the least inform” as you suggested , TAA was the outstanding player for a team that was the in form team in the Prem in the last ten games. How have you judged that he is “The least inform” out of the four
		
Click to expand...

You seem to be mistaking the least in form with out of form. Let’s leave it there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You seem to be mistaking the least in form with out of form. Let’s leave it there.
		
Click to expand...

What’s wrong ? Not like you to not back up your statement when challenged

You said he was “least in form” - can you explain how you come to that judgement when you look at the last ten games he played


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

Conte the latest gamble in the next Tottenham manager mkt


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## PieMan (Jun 2, 2021)

On the England right back issue, wouldn't surprise me if James starts in a back three, especially with the injury issues with cement head. James will be a better option there than Walker.


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

Sounds like Nuno has finished talking to Palace and headed north for a chat with Everton now too


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Nuno has finished talking to Palace and headed north for a chat with Everton now too 

Click to expand...

Come on Nuno, come on north. Lovely sunny day on Merseyside, have a look at the model of the nice new stadium, look at the transfer kitty . Compare that with Palace...............(sorry Palace fans for this cheap and unnecessary dig but hey, we need a manager quickly)


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## Kellfire (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s wrong ? Not like you to not back up your statement when challenged

You said he was “least in form” - can you explain how you come to that judgement when you look at the last ten games he played
		
Click to expand...

It’s just my opinion. Don’t beat yourself up about it. It’s not like I claimed Oli Watkins was in the squad or anything demonstrably incorrect.


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

I see Sergio Aguerro has bought every member of Citys support staff a 1k watch, made a donation to their "xmas fund" and then did a raffle for which one of them got to keep his Range Rover! Classy


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## pokerjoke (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The way TAA plays within the team gives him the license to go high - that allows teams to get behind him , when we had VVD and Gomez covering then it was risk that was ok as both had the pace cover. When both got injured TAA still played the high line and didn’t have the cover so he was being caught out by the tactics employed by the manager as opposed to his ability to defend. The latter games when Fabinho was back to the middle that allowed the cover more .

It will come down to how Southgate wants to play it I guess

TAA is the only right back I have seen in the past couple of years that has dominated a match and destroyed teams
		
Click to expand...

What game are you talking about Phil
I presume you meant he had a very good game and set up a goal or 2
Dominated a game from right back absolute comedy gold.
Keep em coming


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## pokerjoke (Jun 2, 2021)

PieMan said:



			On the England right back issue, wouldn't surprise me if James starts in a back three, especially with the injury issues with cement head. James will be a better option there than Walker.
		
Click to expand...

Cement head  you must be talking about Rudiger after what he done to Kevin


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

PieMan said:



			On the England right back issue, wouldn't surprise me if James starts in a back three, especially with the injury issues with cement head. James will be a better option there than Walker.
		
Click to expand...

Cement head 😂😂😂 @PieMan


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## PieMan (Jun 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Cement head  you must be talking about Rudiger after what he done to Kevin 

Click to expand...

Purely accidental from Rudiger 'cement head 2'......😉


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## GB72 (Jun 2, 2021)

Not a great start, tournament has not even begun yet and Scotland have 1 positive case and 6 others isolating as a precaution. (not having a dig at Scotland just at how precarious the situation is). 

Anyone know what the tournament rules are if a match has to be cancelled due to a covid outbreak in a team. Guessing that any significant number needing a 14 day isolation would effectively take a whole team out of the tournament.


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## Slime (Jun 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But he's only played exclusively as a right back for Liverpool? Our group games are against Croatia, Scotland and Czech Rep. The latter two you would want your most attacking presence out wide, and even Croatia are not the team they were in my opinion.

We could dig down into the stats but I'm not sure James or Trippier are wildly better defensively than Trent anyway. *The only really good defensive right back out there is Wan-Bissaka and he has missed out.*

Click to expand...

Astonishingly!


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## AmandaJR (Jun 2, 2021)

Well wear some decent shin-pads you stupid, stupid boy!


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

Lingaard giving Grealish a hospital pass, one way to try and get in the Euro squad i guess haha


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## AmandaJR (Jun 2, 2021)

Rewind to 30.02 and TAA throw-in...check the guy out in the stand. Is it a mask??


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Rewind to 30.02 and TAA throw-in...check the guy out in the stand. Is it a mask?? 

Click to expand...

He used to be in guess who didnt he 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## AmandaJR (Jun 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			He used to be in guess who didnt he 🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...


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## BiMGuy (Jun 2, 2021)

How does Mings get in the England squad?


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## BiMGuy (Jun 2, 2021)

Some of this lot are playing their way out of the starting 11.

Grealish
TAA
Rice
Mings

All awful.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 2, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			How does Mings get in the England squad?
		
Click to expand...

To help Grealish get dressed?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Some of this lot are playing their way out of the starting 11.

Grealish
TAA
Rice
Mings

All awful.
		
Click to expand...

Really ? Grealish and Rice looked composed , Grealish carries the ball very well but keeps getting cut down . TAA hasn’t done anything wrong 

Mings doesn’t look comfortable 

The biggest issue they have is they don’t have a focal point up front because Kane is dropping too deep , it’s causing two issues - one he is taking up space that Grealish will be in and when the wide players have a chance to cross no one is there in the box.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			To dress Grealish? 

Click to expand...

Should one question why they both seem to have strained wrists?


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Should one question why they both seem to have strained wrists? 

Click to expand...

I think responding to that would result in a damn good Fraggering...


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Should one question why they both seem to have strained wrists? 

Click to expand...


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## AmandaJR (Jun 2, 2021)

I'm thinking too much gym work perhaps?


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## Slime (Jun 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm thinking too much gym work perhaps?
		
Click to expand...

Who's Jim?


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## Tashyboy (Jun 2, 2021)

😳Calvert booking, how high did he jump.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Rewind to 30.02 and TAA throw-in...check the guy out in the stand. Is it a mask?? 

Click to expand...


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## AmandaJR (Jun 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



View attachment 36912

Click to expand...

 What's going on there?!


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## Tashyboy (Jun 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



View attachment 36912

Click to expand...

that is not me b4 anyone says owt. 😳
reminds me of a lovely guy who worked at Harworth pit. His nick name was “Joke shop face”


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



 What's going on there?!
		
Click to expand...

It’s a Groucho Marx print on a face mask.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s a Groucho Marx print on a face mask.

Click to expand...

Oh I see...ha ha ha ha!!


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## Steve Wilkes (Jun 2, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			I see England are the favourites to win the Euro's.
Just like the last one when they lost to Iceland.
As for Qatar 2022 they are again the favourites.
Strangely the only time they weren't was 1966.
		
Click to expand...

That's because you are looking at UK sites, I bet if you lived in Germany or elsewhere in Europe England wouldn't be favourites


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2021)

back down to 3 right backs then


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## Tashyboy (Jun 2, 2021)

TTA ☹️ Dont look good


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## Slime (Jun 2, 2021)

TAA in a bit of bother.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			TTA ☹️ Dont look good
		
Click to expand...

Better now than once the tournament has started.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 2, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			😳Calvert booking, how high did he jump.
		
Click to expand...

Too high apparently


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## Kellfire (Jun 2, 2021)

At least it’s only a squad player that England stand to lose.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 2, 2021)

Rammel


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## Kellfire (Jun 2, 2021)

Half the team trying to avoid injury, the other half with nothing to play for. Pointless game.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 2, 2021)

Just one of the reasons we can’t win the Euros unfortunately is tiredness.
Long,long season and now injuries through fatigue.
So many players tonight looked shattered.
Kane looked about 40


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

Well not a great watch - Bellingham was very good , can certainly see him starting - can’t believe how young he is. The CB’s aren’t great , Pickford shows his strengths and weaknesses, why was Kane playing as a Centre , great from Saka and Grealish 

Gutted for TAA if that is an injury that rules  out of the Euros 😔


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ? Grealish and Rice looked composed , Grealish carries the ball very well but keeps getting cut down . TAA hasn’t done anything wrong

Mings doesn’t look comfortable

The biggest issue they have is they don’t have a focal point up front because Kane is dropping too deep , it’s causing two issues - one he is taking up space that Grealish will be in and when the wide players have a chance to cross no one is there in the box.
		
Click to expand...

Admit it Phil you’re  really a massive England fan.
You get upset if “your” players aren’t selected & you are a wannabe expert on them.
But you’re just scared that actual scousers will think less of you if you support them 😬


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 2, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			I can't be the only one thinks Eddie Howe is complete rubbish.

Nuno favourite for both Palace and Everton jobs.
		
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No your not.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Not hard in a crap team and only 2 players in goodish form
The one season wonder and Robertson all the others were well off form.
		
Click to expand...

Dont you get bored with the same digs, we do.

The hockey joke works once or twice, not 40 times, and the one season wonder one the same.

As you were. Hopefully with newer material.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400127831498235909
Ouch 😬


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 2, 2021)




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## Tashyboy (Jun 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



View attachment 36913

Click to expand...

Am sure the full version said that re City, Manchester is closing down, re Utd, large swathes of London and Surrey are going into lockdown. 😁👍


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## pokerjoke (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dont you get bored with the same digs, we do.

The hockey joke works once or twice, not 40 times, and the one season wonder one the same.

As you were. Hopefully with newer material.
		
Click to expand...

If he has a good season next year I might change it to the 2 season wonder.
As long as Phil keeps spouting his rubbish unfortunately the Hockey joke stays.
You can’t go round stating facts when you haven’t got a clue unless your in the England coaching meetings.
At least you got a like off him.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 2, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			As opposed to the lack of form from the other three?
		
Click to expand...

What sort of logic is that?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			If he has a good season next year I might change it to the 2 season wonder.
As long as Phil keeps spouting his rubbish unfortunately the Hockey joke stays.
You can’t go round stating facts when you haven’t got a clue unless your in the England coaching meetings.
At least you got a like off him.
		
Click to expand...

No, the hockey pun is worn out down to the bone.

What constitutes being a one season wonder?

Outside of being in the top 3 of prem strikers for the last 3 seasons?

Go one make yourself look soft.......


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Well wear some decent shin-pads you stupid, stupid boy!
		
Click to expand...

Yes ironic he has shin problems.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400127831498235909
Ouch 😬
		
Click to expand...

Classy!


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## IainP (Jun 2, 2021)

Who scored then BBC Sport? 🤷‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ? Grealish and Rice looked composed , Grealish carries the ball very well but keeps getting cut down . TAA hasn’t done anything wrong

Mings doesn’t look comfortable

The biggest issue they have is they don’t have a focal point up front because Kane is dropping too deep , it’s causing two issues - one he is taking up space that Grealish will be in and when the wide players have a chance to cross no one is there in the box.
		
Click to expand...

Just like Liverpool TAA has nobody to cross to.
Klopps way of playing Firmino.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No, the hockey pun is worn out down to the bone.

What constitutes being a one season wonder?

Outside of being in the top 3 of prem strikers for the last 3 seasons?

Go one make yourself look soft.......
		
Click to expand...

I only do it because I know it annoys you Liverpool fans
He has been ur 1 shining light this year.
There a bit of honesty for you Pete


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			What sort of logic is that?
		
Click to expand...

The logical type.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 3, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			The logical type.
		
Click to expand...

Illogical type.
Makes no difference now he’s injured.


----------



## stefanovic (Jun 3, 2021)

Now seems clearer to me that when England lose to North Macedonia or some other minnow nation, Southgate will declare that England are still work in progress.
After every tournament I hear that.
Very strange that England are still WIP.

Probably best player last night started at my club aged 6.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sp...news/genesis-jack-grealish-story-boy-19347754


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 3, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I only do it because I know it annoys you Liverpool fans
He has been ur 1 shining light this year.
There a bit of honesty for you Pete
		
Click to expand...

Honesty, or caught with your trousers down in the argument? The latter methinks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 3, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400496908448194568
Gutted for him - hopefully will now get a nice rest and be fresh for next season


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 3, 2021)

So, do we call up WB or actually pick a midfielder who’s fit and has a set piece in him?


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			So, do we call up WB or actually pick a midfielder who’s fit and has a set piece in him?
		
Click to expand...

neither


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## Papas1982 (Jun 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			neither 

Click to expand...

Knowing Southgate he will go with Watkins.....


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Knowing Southgate he will go with Watkins.....
		
Click to expand...


I would have picked Watkins in the original squad, think Southgate will go the Lingaard route or maybe another defender (Godfrey?)


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2021)

sounding like Conte to spurs is all but a done deal


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## Papas1982 (Jun 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			I would have picked Watkins in the original squad, think Southgate will go the Lingaard route or maybe another defender (Godfrey?)
		
Click to expand...

I don't actually think he should have been ahead of either Ings or Bamford tbh. 

But as Kane is starting, and DCL blatant cover. I don't see a 3rd striker getting any time anyways. 

If Henderson isn't fit then we are limited in the middle imo. 

That being said. I've got no real expectation of JWP going. Even though I feel he brings more to the squad d than others.


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I don't actually think he should have been ahead of either Ings or Bamford tbh. 

But as Kane is starting, and DCL blatant cover. I don't see a 3rd striker getting any time anyways. 

If Henderson isn't fit then we are limited in the middle imo. 

That being said. I've got no real expectation of JWP going. Even though I feel he brings more to the squad d than others.
		
Click to expand...


each to their own, Watkins far the better of the 3 and gives a bit more of a different dimension to me. If Kane is going to play in midfield like he did last night we'll need another centre forward


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## Papas1982 (Jun 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			each to their own, Watkins far the better of the 3 and gives a bit more of a different dimension to me. If Kane is going to play in midfield like he did last night we'll need another centre forward 

Click to expand...

Fair point about Kane. 

Will agree to differ re the forwards 👍🏻


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## pauljames87 (Jun 3, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			So, do we call up WB or actually pick a midfielder who’s fit and has a set piece in him?
		
Click to expand...

We can't now, we can only call from the standby list I believe 

I'd take ward prowse tbh midfield and right back cover ...I mean only 3 is risking it


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## Orikoru (Jun 3, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I don't actually think he should have been ahead of either Ings or Bamford tbh.

But as Kane is starting, and DCL blatant cover. I don't see a 3rd striker getting any time anyways.

If Henderson isn't fit then we are limited in the middle imo.

That being said. I've got no real expectation of JWP going. Even though I feel he brings more to the squad d than others.
		
Click to expand...

I hope it's Ward-Prowse. Imagine we're 1-0 down in the quarter final, 5 minutes to go, we get a free kick 22 yards out. Who do you want on it?? Especially now Trent isn't there. In that situation I'd literally sub JWP on from the bench to take it, it's as good as a penalty.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I hope it's Ward-Prowse. Imagine we're 1-0 down in the quarter final, 5 minutes to go, we get a free kick 22 yards out. Who do you want on it?? Especially now Trent isn't there. In that situation I'd literally sub JWP on from the bench to take it, it's as good as a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

tbh I was shocked he wasn’t picked simply due to the fact Southgate has awful tactics and we will effectively be like we’re were at the last comp. set plays.
Couple that with the fact we have freakish who buys/earns/warrants how many free kicks a game?


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I hope it's Ward-Prowse. Imagine we're 1-0 down in the quarter final, 5 minutes to go, we get a free kick 22 yards out. Who do you want on it?? Especially now Trent isn't there. In that situation I'd literally sub JWP on from the bench to take it, it's as good as a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

Id hope my penalty taker scored more than 1 in 10!!!!!


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## Orikoru (Jun 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			Id hope my penalty taker scored more than 1 in 10!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Huh?

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/att_freekick_goal

Are you telling me he had 40 attempts? Either way I'd still back him to score a free kick more than anyone else - in the world, potentially.


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Huh?

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/att_freekick_goal

Are you telling me he had 40 attempts? Either way I'd still back him to score a free kick more than anyone else - in the world, potentially.
		
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Certainly close to that if not more, played every minute of every game. Long term dont think anyone averages more than 1 in 10. Messi scores 1 in 16, Ronaldo 1 in 25 or similar


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## Papas1982 (Jun 3, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54773207

1 in 8 as according to stats last November.


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## Orikoru (Jun 3, 2021)

To summarise my point without getting bogged down in numbers, I think he can't be far off the best free kick taker in world football, and in a squad where we have the rare opportunity to take 26 players - you might as well chuck him in just for that.


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54773207

1 in 8 as according to stats last November.
		
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just after he scored two in a game  good time to quote his stats, he score 1 or 2 more since?


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To summarise my point without getting bogged down in numbers, I think he can't be far off the best free kick taker in world football, and in a squad where we have the rare opportunity to take 26 players - you might as well chuck him in just for that.
		
Click to expand...

that makes more sense


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2021)

What those stats do show is just how hard it is to score from a free kick directly thats for sure. JWP by far the best in the prem currently scores one every 20 games! No one else in the prem scored more than 1 all season! Maybe having someone lie down behind the wall does work 🤣🤣🤣


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## Papas1982 (Jun 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			just after he scored two in a game  good time to quote his stats, he score 1 or 2 more since?
		
Click to expand...

Was the only article available when I googled conversion rate TBF. 

Wasn't like I tried to hide it was old....

That being said. Whether it's 1in 8 or 20, I think his set plays would still be crucial to a Sam Allardyce style. Which we play.


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Was the only article available when I googled conversion rate TBF. 

Wasn't like I tried to hide it was old....

That being said. Whether it's 1in 8 or 20, I think his set plays would still be crucial to a Sam Allardyce style. Which we play.
		
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yeah its annoying not to be able to find current stats 

you think were attractive as a big sam side  hopefully its all a bluff and once we get to the crucial games hes going to play 4 at the back, rice and 5 attackers


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			Certainly close to that if not more, played every minute of every game. Long term dont think anyone averages more than 1 in 10. Messi scores 1 in 16, Ronaldo 1 in 25 or similar
		
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I'm not sure Ronaldo is a great example to use. Only his ego has kept him on free kick taking duties for the last umpteen years. He had a successive miss number that was laughable recently, can't remember the number but it was plenty. 

Your point is sound though. The ratio for any player isn't great so it isn't something to rely on. Players may get lots of oooo's and aaah's but not many go in. JWP is one of the better ones though to be fair so I get Orikoru's point. A good enough player to go in his own right without the bonus of his free kicks.


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## Orikoru (Jun 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not sure Ronaldo is a great example to use. Only his ego has kept him on free kick taking duties for the last umpteen years. He had a successive miss number that was laughable recently, can't remember the number but it was plenty.

Your point is sound though. The ratio for any player isn't great so it isn't something to rely on. Players may get lots of oooo's and aaah's but not many go in. JWP is one of the better ones though to be fair so I get Orikoru's point. A good enough player to go in his own right without the bonus of his free kicks.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah Ronaldo is terrible at free kicks - nearly as bad as Kane who takes all of them for us on the basis of scoring one free kick ever in his life. Both of them just smack the ball and hope it moves around, but invariably crash it into the wall or the stands. That one occasional one that swerves in the top bins for Ronaldo is the one that gets played on YouTube over and over and everyone thinks he's great. I'd be surprised if he even scores more than 1 per season from taking every single one for his club.

It's not just free kicks on goal with JWP though. Let's say you're needing a goal, you've got the centre backs staying up, JWP is the man I'd want swing the free kicks into the box and the corners as well. Great delivery he has, and without Trent there it's maybe only Trippier that you could say has a really good delivery from crosses.

Or we could always put Kane back on corners...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2021)

How great is Micah Richards 

Such a breath of fresh imo 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400754202540924929


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## Orikoru (Jun 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How great is Micah Richards

Such a breath of fresh imo
		
Click to expand...

I think he's a funny when he's having banter with the other ex-players, and the chemistry with him and Roy Keane is hilarious. But he is rubbish as an actual pundit. Offers no insight of any value at all. As I say though, he's more there as comedy value and light relief which is no bad thing when you have miserable gits like Souness in the studio.


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## Slime (Jun 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How great is Micah Richards

Such a breath of fresh imo
		
Click to expand...

You're absolutely spot on. 
I love it when he appears with Roy Keane ............................ comedy gold.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 4, 2021)

We as a nation need to stop calling up half fit players


Orikoru said:



			Yeah Ronaldo is terrible at free kicks - nearly as bad as Kane who takes all of them for us on the basis of scoring one free kick ever in his life. Both of them just smack the ball and hope it moves around, but invariably crash it into the wall or the stands. That one occasional one that swerves in the top bins for Ronaldo is the one that gets played on YouTube over and over and everyone thinks he's great. I'd be surprised if he even scores more than 1 per season from taking every single one for his club.

It's not just free kicks on goal with JWP though. Let's say you're needing a goal, you've got the centre backs staying up, JWP is the man I'd want swing the free kicks into the box and the corners as well. Great delivery he has, and without Trent there it's maybe only Trippier that you could say has a really good delivery from crosses.

Or we could always put Kane back on corners... 

Click to expand...

Kane is ridiculous with his free kicks .. why on earth would you ever put the best striker in the world on a free kick when you want him on the end of it!!!!!

The best free kick taker I've seen in the flesh was payet. Never seen so many free kicks go in from one person in a short space of time ..

A lot of it is ego. Let's face it augero and Messi prob two of the worst pen takers around yet constantly get on them


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## Orikoru (Jun 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Kane is ridiculous with his free kicks .. why on earth would you ever put the best striker in the world on a free kick when you want him on the end of it!!!!!

The best free kick taker I've seen in the flesh was payet. Never seen so many free kicks go in from one person in a short space of time ..

A lot of it is ego. Let's face it augero and Messi prob two of the worst pen takers around yet constantly get on them
		
Click to expand...

It drives me mad with Kane. Obviously there's a sense that he can pretty much do what he wants as we're lucky to have had him this long, which I understand. But honestly the guy is poor at free kicks. The only one I ever remember him scoring was a deflection against Villa in his debut season having just broken into the team! Ever since then he's pelted it over the bar, into the wall, or at best into the goalie's arms. Even when Bale is on the pitch - someone who is actually genuinely good at free kicks - Kane was taking them off him! It's ridiculous. I'm with you on Messi and Aguero being rubbish at penalties as well. Fair play they step up and take the responsibility to an extent, but I remember back in the day there were specialist penalty takers, and it didn't matter if they were a defender, like Stuart Pearce, Julian Dicks from your lot, Franck Leboeuf. It can't be hard to establish who's good at dead balls in training rather than just letting the star players pull rank on it.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It drives me mad with Kane. Obviously there's a sense that he can pretty much do what he wants as we're lucky to have had him this long, which I understand. But honestly the guy is poor at free kicks. The only one I ever remember him scoring was a deflection against Villa in his debut season having just broken into the team! Ever since then he's pelted it over the bar, into the wall, or at best into the goalie's arms. Even when Bale is on the pitch - someone who is actually genuinely good at free kicks - Kane was taking them off him! It's ridiculous. I'm with you on Messi and Aguero being rubbish at penalties as well. Fair play they step up and take the responsibility to an extent, but I remember back in the day there were specialist penalty takers, and it didn't matter if they were a defender, like Stuart Pearce, Julian Dicks from your lot, Franck Leboeuf. It can't be hard to establish who's good at dead balls in training rather than just letting the star players pull rank on it.
		
Click to expand...

We saw it this season with noble finalling being out the team (actually give him credit he is a brilliant spot kick taker) when we finally got one lingatd tried to take it and rice said no it's mine scored

Next game lingard got one missed

He scored another 

Rice missed one 

All the while whilst soucek who has a fantastic record with pens and has ice in his veins just twiddles his thumbs 

Egos everywhere


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			We saw it this season with noble finalling being out the team (actually give him credit he is a brilliant spot kick taker) when we finally got one lingatd tried to take it and rice said no it's mine scored

Next game lingard got one missed

He scored another

Rice missed one

All the while whilst soucek who has a fantastic record with pens and has ice in his veins just twiddles his thumbs

Egos everywhere
		
Click to expand...

I don’t dought what your stats are but isn’t that the managers job?
He should choose the taker based on results in training and games.
If you can see it so should he!


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## pauljames87 (Jun 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I don’t dought what your stats are but isn’t that the managers job?
He should choose the taker based on results in training and games.
If you can see it so should he!
		
Click to expand...

See that's the problem, training means nothing for pens really, no pressure


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2021)

PFA Team of the Year 

Ederson (Manchester City); Joao Cancelo (Manchester City), John Stones (Manchester City), Ruben Dias (Manchester City), Luke Shaw (Manchester United); Kevin De Bruyne (Manchester City), Ilkay Gundogan (Manchester City), Bruno Fernandes (Manchester United); Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), Heung-Min Son (Tottenham Hotspur), Mo Salah (Liverpool).


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 4, 2021)

Don't know if this should go here or random irritations; the laughable standard of journalism continues.

From today's Gossip page on the BBC website; France striker Olivier Giroud, 34, is set to choose AC Milan when his contract with Chelsea expires.

From the Chelsea FC website; 

*Chelsea Football Club can confirm that an option to extend Olivier Giroud’s contract by one year was exercised in April this year.*
The Frenchman’s current deal was due to expire at the end of this campaign but an extension means the 34-year-old’s three-and-a-half-year stay in west London continues for another year.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			See that's the problem, training means nothing for pens really, no pressure
		
Click to expand...

Yes ,we used to get 20 press ups if we missed.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 4, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don't know if this should go here or random irritations; the laughable standard of journalism continues.

From today's Gossip page on the BBC website; France striker Olivier Giroud, 34, is set to choose AC Milan when his contract with Chelsea expires.

From the Chelsea FC website;

*Chelsea Football Club can confirm that an option to extend Olivier Giroud’s contract by one year was exercised in April this year.*
The Frenchman’s current deal was due to expire at the end of this campaign but an extension means the 34-year-old’s three-and-a-half-year stay in west London continues for another year.
		
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Is that his agent fishing for a club?
No harm putting him out there.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			See that's the problem, training means nothing for pens really, no pressure
		
Click to expand...

People say that, and there is an element of truth in it, but sports pro's of many pressure sports practice and practice key moments, shots etc so that when that key moment happens for real they have the knowledge that they have done it successfully, repeatedly. I'd rather have someone take a penalty who has practiced 20 a day for days, weeks, months, than someone who hasn't bothered because there's no point in their mind.


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## Slime (Jun 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			See that's the problem, training means nothing for pens really, no pressure
		
Click to expand...

That's a bit like saying golfers needn't bother practicing 5ft putts.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 4, 2021)

The released list at Crystal Palace;

Aveiro, Brandon Paulo Vale 
Bryon, Lewis 
Cahill, Gary James 
Clyne, Nathaniel Edwin 
Dann, Scott 
Flanagan, Kian 
Gonzalez Quintero, Kevin 
Hale, Harlem Kenroy 
Henderson, Stephen Francis 
Hennessey, Wayne Robert 
Hobbs, Lewis James 
Luthra, Rohan 
Matthews, Alfie Jacob 
McCarthy, James Patrick 
Russell, Jacob Luke 
Russell, Jude Thomas 
Sakho, Mamadou 
Townsend, Andros 
Van Aanholt, Patrick John Miguel 
Ward, Joel Edward Philip 
Wickham, Connor Neil Ralph 
Woods, Samuel John


@chrisd, have you still got a pair of boots...


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## chrisd (Jun 4, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			The released list at Crystal Palace;

Aveiro, Brandon Paulo Vale
Bryon, Lewis
Cahill, Gary James
Clyne, Nathaniel Edwin
Dann, Scott
Flanagan, Kian
Gonzalez Quintero, Kevin
Hale, Harlem Kenroy
Henderson, Stephen Francis
Hennessey, Wayne Robert
Hobbs, Lewis James
Luthra, Rohan
Matthews, Alfie Jacob
McCarthy, James Patrick
Russell, Jacob Luke
Russell, Jude Thomas
Sakho, Mamadou
Townsend, Andros
Van Aanholt, Patrick John Miguel
Ward, Joel Edward Philip
Wickham, Connor Neil Ralph
Woods, Samuel John


@chrisd, have you still got a pair of boots... 

Click to expand...

No ............. but worth buying a pair I reckon. 

Personally I'd keep Cahill and Van Aanholt, loads on the list I dont know


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## fundy (Jun 4, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			The released list at Crystal Palace;

Aveiro, Brandon Paulo Vale 
Bryon, Lewis 
Cahill, Gary James 
Clyne, Nathaniel Edwin 
Dann, Scott 
Flanagan, Kian 
Gonzalez Quintero, Kevin 
Hale, Harlem Kenroy 
Henderson, Stephen Francis 
Hennessey, Wayne Robert 
Hobbs, Lewis James 
Luthra, Rohan 
Matthews, Alfie Jacob 
McCarthy, James Patrick 
Russell, Jacob Luke 
Russell, Jude Thomas 
Sakho, Mamadou 
Townsend, Andros 
Van Aanholt, Patrick John Miguel 
Ward, Joel Edward Philip 
Wickham, Connor Neil Ralph 
Woods, Samuel John


@chrisd, have you still got a pair of boots... 

Click to expand...


really?????

they just keeping Zaha Eze and Benteke?


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## fundy (Jun 4, 2021)

in the prem league this year:

townsend 25 games
dann 15 games
cahill 20 games
ward 25 games
van aanholt 20 games
clyne 13 games
mccarthy 10 games


thats some clear out. could arsenal borrow who ever has sanctioned this


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 4, 2021)

Surprised at Townshend being released. He will surely be picked up pretty quickly (unless Palace fans would advise otherwise)

That is incredibly poor planning. How much has been written off there?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 4, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			The released list at Crystal Palace;

Aveiro, Brandon Paulo Vale
Bryon, Lewis
Cahill, Gary James
Clyne, Nathaniel Edwin
Dann, Scott
Flanagan, Kian
Gonzalez Quintero, Kevin
Hale, Harlem Kenroy
Henderson, Stephen Francis
Hennessey, Wayne Robert
Hobbs, Lewis James
Luthra, Rohan
Matthews, Alfie Jacob
McCarthy, James Patrick
Russell, Jacob Luke
Russell, Jude Thomas
Sakho, Mamadou
Townsend, Andros
Van Aanholt, Patrick John Miguel
Ward, Joel Edward Philip
Wickham, Connor Neil Ralph
Woods, Samuel John


@chrisd, have you still got a pair of boots... 

Click to expand...

All coming to end of contract at the same time?


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## Fade and Die (Jun 4, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			The released list at Crystal Palace;

Aveiro, Brandon Paulo Vale
Bryon, Lewis
Cahill, Gary James
Clyne, Nathaniel Edwin
Dann, Scott
Flanagan, Kian
Gonzalez Quintero, Kevin
Hale, Harlem Kenroy
Henderson, Stephen Francis
Hennessey, Wayne Robert
Hobbs, Lewis James
Luthra, Rohan
Matthews, Alfie Jacob
McCarthy, James Patrick
Russell, Jacob Luke
Russell, Jude Thomas
Sakho, Mamadou
Townsend, Andros
Van Aanholt, Patrick John Miguel
Ward, Joel Edward Philip
Wickham, Connor Neil Ralph
Woods, Samuel John


@chrisd, have you still got a pair of boots... 

Click to expand...

Andros Townsend is on Talksport every week, he was explaining the club won’t be offering new contracts until they sort a manager. He has had an offer from a Turkish club but is hoping for either a offer from Palace or another Prem club.


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## fundy (Jun 5, 2021)

Sounds like Buendia is going to Villa for £33m plus add ons

1) Thats Arsenals first target gone elsewhere (about 40 more of these to follow haha)
2) To play alongside or to replace


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## Slime (Jun 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Buendia is going to Villa for £33m plus add ons

1) Thats Arsenals first target gone elsewhere (about 40 more of these to follow haha)
2) To play alongside or to replace 

Click to expand...

Probably alongside if Villa stick to their £130M valuation!


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## fundy (Jun 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Probably alongside if Villa stick to their £130M valuation! 

Click to expand...

Ow much


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## fundy (Jun 5, 2021)

Fernandinho on the "released list" at City 

If ever your City connections have any value Arteta, now would be a good time.......


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## pauljames87 (Jun 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Fernandinho on the "released list" at City 

If ever your City connections have any value Arteta, now would be a good time.......
		
Click to expand...

Sod arsenal 

Moyes grab van aanholt. Fernandiho and Josh king in frees .. that sorts out some depth for Europa


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## rudebhoy (Jun 6, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Andros Townsend is on Talksport every week, he was explaining the club won’t be offering new contracts until they sort a manager. He has had an offer from a Turkish club but is hoping for either a offer from Palace or another Prem club.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty high risk strategy.


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## howbow88 (Jun 6, 2021)

I reckon we will hang on to Cahill, Ward, and Townsend. Maybe Dann too. A lot of that list are youngsters or reserve players. 

But I will admit that there is definitely some uncertainty at the club right now. I obviously want us to get in the right man for the job, but I can't help but think we are taking a bit too long to get in a new manager.


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## chrisd (Jun 6, 2021)

howbow88 said:



			I reckon we will hang on to Cahill, Ward, and Townsend. Maybe Dann too. A lot of that list are youngsters or reserve players.

But I will admit that there is definitely some uncertainty at the club right now. I obviously want us to get in the right man for the job, but I can't help but think we are taking a bit too long to get in a new manager.
		
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I'm beginning to feel that Ward and Dann are getting a bit slow and struggle at times,  I'd like to keep Cahill, Townsend has been a decent player but should now be a reserve imo. I see Van Aanholt has gone !


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## howbow88 (Jun 6, 2021)

Agree with you but I just wouldn't want to change too much, too quickly. Plus, both know the club inside out and are worth keeping on the books. 

I'm not going to miss PVA. Scores the odd goal and assist, but he is defensively inept. He also gives the impression to me that he doesn't really care too much about the club. 

Any thoughts on who you want the new manager to be? I don't want Lampard, Cooper or Ismael. Other than that, I'm not too fussed.


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## Orikoru (Jun 6, 2021)

Hopefully Grealish smashes it today and nails down his starting place. I think he's key to us creating anything at the moment.


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## Orikoru (Jun 6, 2021)

Brilliant half for Grealish and JWP - I really hope the latter makes the squad. Should have been there already ahead of Phillips in my opinion.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 6, 2021)

Not one cross from open play when we have prob the best header of a ball in the PL.
Just to slow .
TAA is a big miss watching this.
JWP very good half .
Grealish for me holds the ball to long and dosnt release it early enough, that’s why he gets kicked so much imo.
But why is Rashford captain it should be a defender who can see the whole game.
Mings is the most experienced but looks nervous to me.


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## fundy (Jun 6, 2021)

hard to understand what the point of this friendly is, no tempo, no drive, no partnerships that are actually going to play together, all it needs now is a boat load of substitutions


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## BiMGuy (Jun 6, 2021)

Never mind asking why Rashford is captain. The question should be why he's on the pitch at all. He's awful.
DCL is another thats done nothing apart from a load of half arsed jumps for a ball he'll get nowhere near.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			hard to understand what the point of this friendly is, no tempo, no drive, no partnerships that are actually going to play together, all it needs now is a boat load of substitutions
		
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Yes agree.
He should know who’s in by now.
If he dosnt were in trouble.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 6, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Never mind asking why Rashford is captain. The question should be why he's on the pitch at all. He's awful.
DCL is another thats done nothing apart from a load of half arsed jumps for a ball he'll get nowhere near.
		
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Well agree the Rashford but the service to DCL is abysmal.


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## fundy (Jun 6, 2021)

lol hows that a penalty


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol hows that a penalty
		
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It’s Grealish he’s very good at getting his legs tangled.
What’s the defender supposed to do there ,he dosnt challenge him.?


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## fundy (Jun 6, 2021)

haha, now thats a penalty


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## fundy (Jun 6, 2021)

Well theres one crossed off the penalty takers list


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## AmandaJR (Jun 6, 2021)

Ha ha ha - never scored - "I'm the Captain and I'm having that"...couldn't make it up, except you could!


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 6, 2021)

Henderson pulling rank and making a mess of it


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 6, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Ha ha ha - never scored - "I'm the Captain and I'm having that"...couldn't make it up, except you could!
		
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His record is still better than Aguero


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## AmandaJR (Jun 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			His record is still better than Aguero 

Click to expand...

Certainly for England it is


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## AmandaJR (Jun 6, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Certainly for England it is 

Click to expand...

Although neither have scored so we'll call it Aguero's as he's made less appearances


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 6, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Certainly for England it is 

Click to expand...

I would still have him in the team.
Aguero that is.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2021)

Just hard to see the tactics  and the style of play they are looking to get. Apart from Grealish the rest just seemed flat and lacking in form. 

Not sure what the manager is going to get from the last two games. It’s almost criminal that a squad so full of talent going forward is stifled - they have zero chance in the Euros when looking at the likes of France and how they look going forward


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## fundy (Jun 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just hard to see the tactics  and the style of play they are looking to get. Apart from Grealish the rest just seemed flat and lacking in form. 

Not sure what the manager is going to get from the last two games. It’s almost criminal that a squad so full of talent going forward is stifled - they have zero chance in the Euros when looking at the likes of France and how they look going forward
		
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played an insipid approach with 4 at the back (but expected to revert to a 5 next week), when trippier has played hes played at left back, midfield looks narrow and uncreative bar individual skill. plenty of game time to players who arent in the 26 man squad whilst the so called stars all put their feet up. either these 2 games have been a game of bluff to not give away our tactics or the manager hasnt got a clue lol. lets hope im wrong which one it is


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## BiMGuy (Jun 6, 2021)

Nailed on to win after that.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Henderson pulling rank and making a mess of it 

Click to expand...

Only thing Henderson should be pulling is out of the squad 

Don't need half fit players pulling rank over those who might be actually able to put in 90 mins


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## Slime (Jun 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Henderson pulling rank and making a mess of it 

Click to expand...

That was an embarrassment, he should be ashamed.
Not a good way for a captain to engender respect from the rest of the squad.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			That was an embarrassment, he should be ashamed.
Not a good way for a captain to engender respect from the rest of the squad.
		
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😂😂😂
maybe a touch over dramatic


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 6, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Ha ha ha - never scored - "I'm the Captain and I'm having that"...couldn't make it up, except you could!
		
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What a Tool 😬😂


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## pauljames87 (Jun 6, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			What a Tool 😬😂
		
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Tools are useful 🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			That was an embarrassment, he should be ashamed.
Not a good way for a captain to engender respect from the rest of the squad.
		
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Yes probably only been on 10 mins .
He dosnt take them for Liverpool ,what’s he thinking .
Good job our keeper saved his embarrassment late on.

I honestly think he’s giving the starting players a rest before the tournament starts proper.
The ones who played today were on trial for a place and for me it was JWP.


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## Slime (Jun 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂😂
maybe a touch over dramatic
		
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He's a senior player and the captain, he must surely lead by example and put his team's aims first.
I was stunned by his lack of leadership.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			He's a senior player and the captain, he must surely lead by example and put his team's aims first.
I was stunned by his lack of leadership.
		
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He was captain and decided to step up and take the penalty - he missed it , it’s not the end of the world and it’s certainly not an embarrassment or should be a ashamed- footballers live by their choices and as a leader he wanted to step. That’s just football and the sport.


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## Slime (Jun 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He was captain and decided to step up and take the penalty - he missed it , it’s not the end of the world and it’s certainly not an embarrassment or should be a ashamed- footballers live by their choices and as a leader he wanted to step. That’s just football and the sport.
		
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I'm sure it was just a greed thing, he having never scored for England.
It was not about 'stepping up', in my opinion.
You may well disagree, that is your right.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 6, 2021)

Henderson took the penaty for one reason - his own personal record/needs...whatever. It 100% was not for the team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm sure it was just a greed thing, he having never scored for England.
It was not about 'stepping up', in my opinion.
You may well disagree, that is your right.
		
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Greed thing - sorry but that’s not Henderson , never has been and never will be , never been selfish at any stage. He missed a penalty ffs and he took it because both the other penalty takers were off the pitch. Stop looking for something that isn’t there just because of who his club is


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## Kellfire (Jun 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Greed thing - sorry but that’s not Henderson , never has been and never will be , never been selfish at any stage. He missed a penalty ffs and he took it because both the other penalty takers were off the pitch. Stop looking for something that isn’t there just because of who his club is
		
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He says, defending the unfit player who made both an error of judgment and skill who just so happens to play for the team he supports...


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## pauljames87 (Jun 6, 2021)

Henderson is pure greed.

He shouldn't even be there .. he hasn't played since Feb 

The world cup isn't that far away he will be 32 so hardly his last tournament

He should have pulled out and let us have someone fit enough to do the job ..


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Henderson is pure greed.

*He shouldn't even be there .. he hasn't played since Feb

The world cup isn't that far away he will be 32 so hardly his last tournament

He should have pulled out and let us have someone fit enough to do the job ..*

Click to expand...

He didn’t pick himself - the manager did and clearly the manager wants him there 

And it’s the same with people like Maguire and Rashford who have been injured - the manager clearly feels they have the right to be there and each player clearly feels they have something to give.


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## Billysboots (Jun 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm sure it was just a greed thing, he having never scored for England.
It was not about 'stepping up', in my opinion.
You may well disagree, that is your right.
		
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I tend to agree. The time to step up is in a crunch game in a tournament or during a qualifying campaign, not a pre-tournament friendly. This was not about Henderson stepping up, it struck me as being a personal hurdle he needed to overcome.


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## Slime (Jun 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Greed thing - sorry but that’s not Henderson , never has been and never will be , never been selfish at any stage. He missed a penalty ffs and he took it because both the other penalty takers were off the pitch. *Stop looking for something that isn’t there just because of who his club is*

Click to expand...

Stop ignoring the facts just because of who his club is.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			Stop ignoring the facts just because of who his club is.
		
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fact -he was captain , fact - both penalty takers were off the pitch and the captain took it - there are your facts ,imagine a man Utd England fan calling him greedy an embarrassment and should be ashamed 🙄.

He missed a penalty in a friendly - the overreacting is pathetic


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## Slime (Jun 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			fact -he was captain , fact - both penalty takers were off the pitch and the captain took it - there are your facts ,imagine a man Utd England fan calling him greedy an embarrassment and should be ashamed 🙄.
		
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I'm very confident in my appraisal of the facts.
If he thought he was the best England player to take the penalty then he's been proven very wrong, very wrong indeed.


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## Billysboots (Jun 6, 2021)

But hasn’t Calvert-Lewin taken, and scored, a couple of penalties for England in previous friendlies? That was my primary concern with Henderson taking it. On the eve of a major tournament surely the thing to do would have been to allow Calvert-Lewin a confidence boosting goal from the penalty spot. I just think Henderson taking it was a really odd decision, especially as C-L is more likely to feature in the Euros than Henderson is.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			But hasn’t Calvert-Lewin taken, and scored, a couple of penalties for England in previous friendlies? That was my primary concern with Henderson taking it. On the eve of a major tournament surely the thing to do would have been to allow Calvert-Lewin a confidence boosting goal from the penalty spot. I just think Henderson taking it was a really odd decision, especially as C-L is more likely to feature in the Euros than Henderson is.
		
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One of his first goals was a penalty I believe

At the end of the day the issue isn’t with the decision - Henderson took the penalty and missed , DCL prob should have taken it but it’s the “overreacting” by his own supposed England fans , but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised when you look back at history with England fans and how they treat players .it’s tame here - Twitter isn’t pretty 

And I would say Henderson is more likely to feature than DCL who will bench warm each game because Kane will play every minute


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## pauljames87 (Jun 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			fact -he was captain , fact - both penalty takers were off the pitch and the captain took it - there are your facts ,imagine a man Utd England fan calling him greedy an embarrassment and should be ashamed 🙄.

He missed a penalty in a friendly - the overreacting is pathetic
		
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Ashamed 🤣🤣 give your head a wobble

You take a pen off someone you must score

Otherwise you look a complete idiot


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## Neilds (Jun 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Ashamed 🤣🤣 give your head a wobble

You take a pen off someone you must score

Otherwise you look a complete idiot
		
Click to expand...

Surely the manager should have told the team who the penalty takers were? List 2/3 in case of the main ones being off the field. This just shows how unorganised the squad is at the moment. 3 players who started last night aren’t even in the Euros squad, what does that tell you? Southgate hasn’t got a clue what his starting 11 is for next weekend and these last 2 matches have taught him nothing


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## Slime (Jun 7, 2021)

Neilds said:



*Surely the manager should have told the team who the penalty takers were?* List 2/3 in case of the main ones being off the field. This just shows how unorganised the squad is at the moment. 3 players who started last night aren’t even in the Euros squad, what does that tell you? Southgate hasn’t got a clue what his starting 11 is for next weekend and these last 2 matches have taught him nothing
		
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We don't know that he didn't.
According to some newspapers, Southgate has has words with Henderson over the penalty fiasco.


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## Orikoru (Jun 7, 2021)

Apparently Ben White has officially taken Trent's spot in the squad. Can't see the point when he's behind Stones, Mings, Coady & Walker for a back three spot even if Maguire isn't fit. I'd have definitely taken JWP and I think he's made a mistake there.


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## Orikoru (Jun 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			We don't know that he didn't.
According to some newspapers,* Southgate has has words with Henderson over the penalty fiasco.*

Click to expand...

Even in his post-match interview it was clear he wasn't best pleased with him. 

I think he already knew his first 11 before these two games and they've pretty much been a waste of time because he rested most of the first team players anyway. He was just using them to look at the also-rans.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 7, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Surely the manager should have told the team who the penalty takers were? List 2/3 in case of the main ones being off the field. This just shows how unorganised the squad is at the moment. 3 players who started last night aren’t even in the Euros squad, what does that tell you? Southgate hasn’t got a clue what his starting 11 is for next weekend and these last 2 matches have taught him nothing
		
Click to expand...

In the in the interview afterwords Southgate clearly thought C/L should have taken the penalty and you could tell he wasn’t happy that Henderson took it, I thought it was very poor from Henderson it’s one thing taken a penalty in a tournament but to take it off another player in a friendly when you shouldn’t even be taking them is selfish and poor leadership.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently Ben White has officially taken Trent's spot in the squad. Can't see the point when he's behind Stones, Mings, Coady & Walker for a back three spot even if Maguire isn't fit. I'd have definitely taken JWP and I think he's made a mistake there.
		
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If he has then what the hell .. jwp can play right back lol plus Ben White? Isn't Godfrey a lot better?

If Ben White is going sounds more to me like Maguire is miles off 

As utd fans I know said .. if he was near fitness he would have played the final for them


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## Orikoru (Jun 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If he has then what the hell .. jwp can play right back lol plus Ben White? Isn't Godfrey a lot better?

If Ben White is going sounds more to me like Maguire is miles off

As utd fans I know said .. if he was near fitness he would have played the final for them
		
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Agree with you. I can't see Maguire playing much of a part in the tournament at all. If it was still squads of 23, he wouldn't be there, simple as.

I also agree with the earlier consensus on Hendo. As he was wearing the armband he saw the opportunity to try and get himself an England goal from the spot in a friendly. Had no thoughts of putting the game to bed at 2-0 by letting a goalscorer take it, it was 100% selfish. And people seem to think he's one of the "leaders" in the squad - not sure about that anymore.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Agree with you. I can't see Maguire playing much of a part in the tournament at all. If it was still squads of 23, he wouldn't be there, simple as.

I also agree with the earlier consensus on Hendo. As he was wearing the armband he saw the opportunity to try and get himself an England goal from the spot in a friendly. Had no thoughts of putting the game to bed at 2-0 by letting a goalscorer take it, it was 100% selfish. And people seem to think he's one of the "leaders" in the squad - not sure about that anymore.
		
Click to expand...

Bad call, but its not like it was an important game! Will be Kane on all penos when the Euros start


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## Orikoru (Jun 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Bad call, but its not like it was an important game! Will be Kane on all penos when the Euros start
		
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That's not the point. It's about the character of our so-called 'leaders' in the dressing room. In our last prep game he's serving his own interest instead of thinking about the team.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That's not the point. It's about the character of our so-called 'leaders' in the dressing room. In our last prep game he's serving his own interest instead of thinking about the team.
		
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Oh well, if he banged it in no one would be moaning. It really is a non issue, its more concerning that Gareth seems to have lost the control


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Ashamed 🤣🤣 give your head a wobble

You take a pen off someone you must score

Otherwise you look a complete idiot
		
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Yes Slime said he should be ashamed and as stated imo an overreaction


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Oh well, if he banged it in no one would be moaning. It really is a non issue, its more concerning that Gareth seems to have lost the control
		
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You’re a right it’s a non issue but it’s half the issue with England - everything gets blown up and sub conscious team bias.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 7, 2021)

I never understand how players don’t know who the penalty taker is,even if players have gone off they should all still know.
Henderson comes across as a bit of a arrogant prat IMO.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You’re a right it’s a non issue but it’s half the issue with England - everything gets blown up and sub conscious team bias.
		
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Yeah It might av been blown out of proportion,but if this is a Man Utd player you’re definitely having a different opinion.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You’re a right it’s a non issue but it’s half the issue with England - everything gets blown up and sub conscious team bias.
		
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I like to try and remain impartial with England. I dont think Mings should be near the first team, and slightly fear for us if he starts if im honest. Whilst he can save you a game with his brilliant athleticism getting back for a last ditch clearance or tackle, he's also liable to really mess up at least once a game


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 7, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			I never understand how players don’t know who the penalty taker is,even if players have gone off they should all still know.
Henderson comes across as a bit of a arrogant prat IMO.
		
Click to expand...

I'm pretty certain they do know and if they don't then I'd be questioning either their professionalism or that of the set up. If someone goes against the designated taker then I'd expect the manager to go demented with them. It is not acceptable. We had it at Everton last year with Richarlison and it did not go down well.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 7, 2021)

Villa confirm agreement made for Buendia. Great signing for us! 

Ive said it before - I'll say it again - our owners mean business! 

Cant wait to see if the James Ward-prowse rumours lead to anything!


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## Orikoru (Jun 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I like to try and remain impartial with England. I dont think Mings should be near the first team, and slightly fear for us if he starts if im honest. Whilst he can save you a game with his brilliant athleticism getting back for a last ditch clearance or tackle, *he's also liable to really mess up at least once a game* 

Click to expand...

That only puts him level with all our other centre backs to be honest.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That only puts him level with all our other centre backs to be honest.
		
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Maguire is pretty solid when fit. Stones isnt bad these days either - but its easily our weakest position all round.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I like to try and remain impartial with England. I dont think Mings should be near the first team, and slightly fear for us if he starts if im honest. Whilst he can save you a game with his brilliant athleticism getting back for a last ditch clearance or tackle, he's also liable to really mess up at least once a game 

Click to expand...

Agreed. I can't see why Mings is that at all. Ben White is a far better player in my opinion.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Agreed. I can't see why Mings is that at all. Ben White is a far better player in my opinion.
		
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Not seen enough of White to agree or disagree - covid's fault as im usually a home and away fan. You quite quickly notice the players that have special talent when you watch live football week in/ week out.  Brighton arent known for their defence but they did keep 12 clean sheets this year, a solid stat for a low down club in the table! 3 more than last year when they didnt have White and he was at leeds on loan! 

Mings has been part of a really solid defence at Villa this year, probably why he's getting more recognition in terms of appearances.


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## Orikoru (Jun 7, 2021)

It's just depressing to think that not so long ago we had it so good with Terry, Rio, Campbell, Ledley if he hadn't have been crocked - a player like Carragher couldn't get near the team, whereas if he was playing nowadays he'd probably be an automatic starter. And we still never won anything with that lot, let alone the muppets we have there now.


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## stefanovic (Jun 7, 2021)

Agree. Just a bunch of over paid Prima Donna's.
Can't defend. Can't win the ball, need either a lot of luck or a miracle to get as far as the QF's.
Can't rely on a Russian linesman any more because of goal line technology.
At least no Iceland this time to freeze England out.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You’re a right it’s a non issue but it’s half the issue with England - everything gets blown up and sub conscious team bias.
		
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But it is a issue you have a squad of players and they have to get on and have no disruption during the tournament, you only have to have seen C/Ls face to know that it’s not good for team morale.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 7, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			I never understand how players don’t know who the penalty taker is,even if players have gone off they should all still know.
Henderson comes across as a bit of a arrogant prat IMO.
		
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Not sure they all know the penalty takers.
But they should know if they are not one of them like Hendo.


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## Rooter (Jun 7, 2021)

I try to avoid the football thread. One question?

Is it coming home?


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## fundy (Jun 7, 2021)

Rooter said:



			I try to avoid the football thread. One question?

Is it coming home?
		
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depends what you mean by it Scooter. If you mean IT, then no


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## Orikoru (Jun 7, 2021)

Rooter said:



			I try to avoid the football thread. One question?

Is it coming home?
		
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Well some of the matches are. The trophy probably isn't though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 7, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			But it is a issue you have a squad of players and they have to get on and have no disruption during the tournament, you only have to have seen C/Ls face to know that it’s not good for team morale.
		
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I suspect that it will have zero effect on any morale and not disrupt the squad in any shape or form


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## SteveW86 (Jun 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well some of the matches are. The trophy probably isn't though.
		
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I always feel like the "Its coming home" should be reserved for World Cups, even though the song was for Euro 96


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## Bdill93 (Jun 8, 2021)

Seen how much the current England strips are to buy? £70 is quite steep in my opinion! Villa home kit was £57 rrp this season in comparison! 

https://www.sportsdirect.com/nike-england-home-shirt-2020-371102#colcode=37110201


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## larmen (Jun 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			I always feel like the "Its coming home" should be reserved for World Cups, even though the song was for Euro 96
		
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It’s about the tournament coming to the home of football. Trophies are going to Germany or Spain ;-)

Actually, I put my outsider punt on the Netherlands this time around.


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## Orikoru (Jun 8, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Seen how much the current England strips are to buy? £70 is quite steep in my opinion! Villa home kit was £57 rrp this season in comparison!

https://www.sportsdirect.com/nike-england-home-shirt-2020-371102#colcode=37110201

Click to expand...

Very steep, unfortunately same as Spurs shirts these days. The last Spurs shirt I bought I got it for 50 because I happened to be in airport so it was duty/tax free in JD Sports, haha. I'm not sure I'll ever buy another one now they've breached the £70 barrier. 

I've never owned an England shirt in my life, I kind of want to get one, but I certainly wouldn't pay that. I'd be more likely to buy one of those replica retro ones, like a Euro 96 or World Cup 98 one for example.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Very steep, unfortunately same as Spurs shirts these days. The last Spurs shirt I bought I got it for 50 because I happened to be in airport so it was duty/tax free in JD Sports, haha. I'm not sure I'll ever buy another one now they've breached the £70 barrier. 

I've never owned an England shirt in my life, I kind of want to get one, but I certainly wouldn't pay that. I'd be more likely to buy one of those replica retro ones, like a Euro 96 or World Cup 98 one for example.
		
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I think ill be going retro too! £30 on average for a replica.. not bad at all! £70 is just madness.

In other news - another day - another link for Grealish - this time to Man City!


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## Fade and Die (Jun 8, 2021)

Fine words from Gareth Southgate…….

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/dear-england-01f798yfraha/amp?__twitter_impression=true


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## Bazzatron (Jun 8, 2021)

Nuno to Palace then


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## Orikoru (Jun 8, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Nuno to Palace then 

Click to expand...

Isn't that a bit of a step down for him? How weird.


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## Orikoru (Jun 9, 2021)

I've just been having a look at this: https://gaming.uefa.com/en/uefaeuro2020tournamentpredictor/main

It seems we're in another situation where it's better to finish 2nd in the group. If we win the group we get Portugal/Germany/France (whoever came 2nd out of them). If we come 2nd in the group, it's most likely Poland. It's because of the bloody stupid format where some third placed teams go through, that means 2nd place in our group plays 2nd place in Spain's group. I wish they've have just left it as 16 teams. That whole Por/Ger/Fra group of death loses any glamour when in all likelihood all three will go through.


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## Bazzatron (Jun 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Isn't that a bit of a step down for him? How weird.
		
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Makes the "leaving by mutual consent" a bit false I think. He would've gone home for a bit if so, reckon he was sacked.


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## Piece (Jun 9, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Nuno to Palace then 

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That's a big win for CP.


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## sunshine (Jun 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I've just been having a look at this: https://gaming.uefa.com/en/uefaeuro2020tournamentpredictor/main

It seems we're in another situation where it's better to finish 2nd in the group. If we win the group we get Portugal/Germany/France (whoever came 2nd out of them). If we come 2nd in the group, it's most likely Poland. It's because of the bloody stupid format where some third placed teams go through, that means 2nd place in our group plays 2nd place in Spain's group. I wish they've have just left it as 16 teams. That whole Por/Ger/Fra group of death loses any glamour when in all likelihood all three will go through.
		
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They had a great format for the Euros, but have now ruined it. It's ridiculous that teams finishing 3rd in a group of 4 can qualify. It makes the group stage - which let's face it is more than half the tournament - a complete waste of time. Northern Ireland lost 2 out of 3 group games and went through. Portugal didn't win any of their group games, but still progressed and obviously did very well in the end!

I'd prefer it if they expanded to 32 teams.


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## Orikoru (Jun 9, 2021)

sunshine said:



			They had a great format for the Euros, but have now ruined it. It's ridiculous that teams finishing 3rd in a group of 4 can qualify. It makes the group stage - which let's face it is more than half the tournament - a complete waste of time. Northern Ireland lost 2 out of 3 group games and went through. Portugal didn't win any of their group games, but still progressed and obviously did very well in the end!

I'd prefer it if they expanded to 32 teams.
		
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Yeah, I had briefly forgotten, but I recall Euro 2016 being one of the poorest in memory, at least partially because of that change in format. Imagine winning no group games but then somehow winning the tournament. That was so poor.

They're ruining the World Cup as well of course, as that will have 40 odd teams soon or something stupid. Don't know why they can't just leave a format alone when it works. More teams in the Euros so we can have the likes of North Macedonia and Slovakia in there and only a third of the teams actually go out of the groups. Pointless.


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## fundy (Jun 9, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Nuno to Palace then 

Click to expand...


sounds like its not happening anyway


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## Bdill93 (Jun 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I think ill be going retro too! £30 on average for a replica.. not bad at all! £70 is just madness.

In other news - another day - another link for Grealish - this time to Man City! 

Click to expand...

Update - I may now be waiting on delivery on the new shirt... someone at work got 20% off at JD sports - £56 for the new one - rude not to!


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## Orikoru (Jun 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Update - I may now be waiting on delivery on the new shirt... someone at work got 20% off at JD sports - £56 for the new one - rude not to!
		
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I just ordered one of these. Bit of retro quality for only 30 quid.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 9, 2021)

I did not know whether to post this here or in the Laughter thread but if anyone wants a football related chuckle then google Micah & Roy's Road Trip to Wembley. Basically, the two of them in a car chatting away. Keans is wonderfully grumpy but Richards is infectious and Keane clearly likes him, something that is probably quite rare I suspect.


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## Orikoru (Jun 9, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I did not know whether to post this here or in the Laughter thread but if anyone wants a football related chuckle then google Micah & Roy's Road Trip to Wembley. Basically, the two of them in a car chatting away. Keans is wonderfully grumpy but Richards is infectious and Keane clearly likes him, something that is probably quite rare I suspect.
		
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Haha yes, I watched the first two of them yesterday. Kind of confirms my suspicions on Roy, that his miserable persona is just a character he embodies on TV. I also thought he hated Micah from the TV coverage, but as you say there seems to be some grudging respect there. I've heard Ian Wright say in the past that he's good friends with Roy as well, I think these videos show he actually has a good sense of humour as well.


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## Beezerk (Jun 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I just ordered one of these. Bit of retro quality for only 30 quid. 

Click to expand...

Screams 90s chavvy thug that thing 🤣


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## Orikoru (Jun 9, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Screams 90s chavvy thug that thing 🤣
		
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Exactly what I was going for!


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## Bdill93 (Jun 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Exactly what I was going for!
		
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I love it!


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## nickjdavis (Jun 9, 2021)

European Super League: Six English clubs fined £22m by Premier League - BBC Sport 

Pathetic and spineless from the FA. You would punish a 7 year old more by taking his smarties off him.


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## Orikoru (Jun 9, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



European Super League: Six English clubs fined £22m by Premier League - BBC Sport

Pathetic and spineless from the FA. You would punish a 7 year old more by taking his smarties off him.
		
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Steady on, we can't afford that! That's our entire transfer budget gone. No wonder Conte didn't sign.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I had briefly forgotten, but I recall Euro 2016 being one of the poorest in memory, at least partially because of that change in format. Imagine winning no group games but then somehow winning the tournament. That was so poor.

They're ruining the World Cup as well of course, as that will have 40 odd teams soon or something stupid. Don't know why they can't just leave a format alone when it works. More teams in the Euros so we can have the likes of North Macedonia and Slovakia in there and only a third of the teams actually go out of the groups. Pointless.
		
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World cup every 2 years 

Bin off euros, Copa America and accon

Everyone qualifies.

Straight knock out. Lose a game no chance of being champ


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 9, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



European Super League: Six English clubs fined £22m by Premier League - BBC Sport

Pathetic and spineless from the FA. You would punish a 7 year old more by taking his smarties off him.
		
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Not sure what else they could have done though 🤷‍♂️


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 9, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



European Super League: Six English clubs fined £22m by Premier League - BBC Sport

*Pathetic and spineless from the FA*. You would punish a 7 year old more by taking his smarties off him.
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure what else they could have done though 🤷‍♂️
		
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Not sure they can even do that as they weren't planning on leaving the Premier League; it's not a fine, it's a goodwill payment.


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## chrisd (Jun 9, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not sure they can even do that as they weren't planning on leaving the Premier League; it's not a fine, it's a goodwill payment.
		
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....... and much more it'd be worth leaving the PL and starting the new league


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## Swingalot (Jun 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Isn't that a bit of a step down for him? How weird.
		
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He can step down if he wants all day long, we will have him.

Mind you, after battling through the subway at Wolves a few times in the 80s even Thornton Heath may in fact be a step up😀


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## nickjdavis (Jun 10, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not sure they can even do that as they weren't planning on leaving the Premier League; it's not a fine, it's a goodwill payment.
		
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£3.7m a club is hardly a gesture of goodwill.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 10, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			£3.7m a club is hardly a gesture of goodwill.
		
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It’s precisely that according to the headline of the article you quoted.


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## Piece (Jun 10, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



European Super League: Six English clubs fined £22m by Premier League - BBC Sport

Pathetic and spineless from the FA. You would punish a 7 year old more by taking his smarties off him.
		
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I would have like to see the words or the intention from these six clubs to make a substantial voluntary donation to grass roots on top of this "fine". Plus maybe reducing season ticket prices as a "sorry" to the fans.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			£3.7m a club is hardly a gesture of goodwill.
		
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They broke no Premier League rules at the end of the day - going to very hard to punish a team for not breaking a rule 🤷‍♂️


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## Bdill93 (Jun 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They broke no Premier League rules at the end of the day - going to very hard to punish a team for not breaking a rule 🤷‍♂️
		
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I may be wrong here - and I know someone will tell me if so..

But I thought there was a rule about not entering a competition without it first being agreed with other clubs? Like the club world cup etc, they get special permission to do that and its signed off before the season starts


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## Bdill93 (Jun 10, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I may be wrong here - and I know someone will tell me if so..

But I thought there was a rule about not entering a competition without it first being agreed with other clubs? Like the club world cup etc, they get special permission to do that and its signed off before the season starts
		
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I found this -  https://www.google.com/search?q=sup...0i22i29i30.10155j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I may be wrong here - and I know someone will tell me if so..

But I thought there was a rule about not entering a competition without it first being agreed with other clubs? Like the club world cup etc, they get special permission to do that and its signed off before the season starts
		
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They hadn’t actually entered any comp etc yet - lots of legal loopholes


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 10, 2021)

Piece said:



			I would have like to see the words or the intention from these six clubs to make a substantial voluntary donation to grass roots on top of this "fine". Plus maybe reducing season ticket prices as a "sorry" to the fans.
		
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What, an owner that hasn't raised season ticket prices in 10 years is now supposed to lower them as a sorry?  I'm fine with him keeping the season ticket price that I've already paid and the apology he's already issued, thanks all the same.


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## Patster1969 (Jun 10, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I had briefly forgotten, but I recall Euro 2016 being one of the poorest in memory, at least partially because of that change in format. Imagine winning no group games but then somehow winning the tournament. That was so poor.

They're ruining the World Cup as well of course, as that will have 40 odd teams soon or something stupid. Don't know why they can't just leave a format alone when it works. More teams in the Euros so we can have the likes of North Macedonia and Slovakia in there and only a third of the teams actually go out of the groups. Pointless.
		
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To be honest, pretty much every club and international tournament has been ruined by the respective football bodies. Binning off the UEFA & Cup Winners Cup (& bringing in the Europa) and opening up the Champions (Cup) League to non-winners was the first notice, which lessened the FA & League Cups, whereas opening up the number of spots available in the EC & Euros has meant that teams can play safe & still get through to the later stages.
The amount of money available has pretty much buggered up football


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## Bdill93 (Jun 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They hadn’t actually entered any comp etc yet - lots of legal loopholes
		
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Clutching at straws there mate  You signed the agreement to join it - thats enough for me!


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 10, 2021)

Piece said:



			I would have like to see the words or the intention from these six clubs to make a substantial voluntary donation to grass roots on top of this "fine". Plus maybe reducing season ticket prices as a "sorry" to the fans.
		
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I might be wrong but think these clubs already help grass root football quite a lot.
The money is not a problem it’s the damage to the reputation brought on by greedy owners.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 10, 2021)

Patster1969 said:



			To be honest, pretty much every club and international tournament has been ruined by the respective football bodies. Binning off the UEFA & Cup Winners Cup (& bringing in the Europa) and opening up the Champions (Cup) League to non-winners was the first notice, which lessened the FA & League Cups, whereas opening up the number of spots available in the EC & Euros has meant that teams can play safe & still get through to the later stages.
The amount of money available has pretty much buggered up football
		
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Yes CL is boring until the knock out .
Should revert back imo, but to much money involved now.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I might be wrong but think these clubs already help grass root football quite a lot.
The money is not a problem it’s the damage to the reputation brought on by greedy owners.
		
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You make a good point - grassroots must be pretty strong these days, we are developing some extremely good players in England/ Britain at the moment! Especially Right backs


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 10, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You make a good point - grassroots must be pretty strong these days, we are developing some extremely good players in England/ Britain at the moment! Especially Right backs 

Click to expand...

No kids must want to play CB then.
We need to invest in a few more Rios , VVDs and Bobby Moore’s. ( other great CB are not avaliable)


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## rudebhoy (Jun 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes CL is boring until the knock out .
Should revert back imo, but to much money involved now.
		
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restricting entry to the CL to champions would be a start. It's farcical that we have just had a "Champions League" final featuring 2 clubs from the same country, neither of who qualified as champions.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 10, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Clutching at straws there mate  *You signed the agreement to join it - thats enough for me!*

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*A further agreement was struck on new rules to prevent such a breakaway from happening again.* In future each club agreeing to enter a competition without the consent of the league would pay a fine of £25m and receive a 30-point deduction. Under the terms of the ESL, the six – Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham – *had planned to continue playing in their domestic leagues as well as in the invitation-only competition.*

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...y-clubs-agree-to-pay-20m-to-grassroots-causes

So if new rules are required to prevent this happening in the future, it suggests such rules either weren't in place already, or the clubs involved didn't breach them; if they had then the Premier League wouldn't be relying on goodwill payments, they'd be throwing the book at them.

Remind us who exactly is clutching at straws here...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			restricting entry to the CL to champions would be a start. It's farcical that we have just had a "Champions League" final featuring 2 clubs from the same country, neither of who qualified as champions.
		
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That ship sailed a long time ago 

The CL changed to stop all the top teams creating a Super League - it’s not going to go back to “champions” only


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## BiMGuy (Jun 10, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You make a good point - grassroots must be pretty strong these days, we are developing some extremely good players in England/ Britain at the moment! Especially Right backs 

Click to expand...

Coaching in grassroots is getting better. Primarily because coach education from the FA improved drastically a few years ago. Along with the change to smaller format games and removing leagues for younger ages. 

There is still a long way to go though. And I can see all the hard work being undone as the FA have moved the Level 1 online rather than face to face.

That said their is still a long way to go. In my opinion there needs to be a review of the formats again to look at introducing 3v3 and 4v4 into mini soccer and not going 11v11 till under 17/18

This will firstly help keep more kids in the game. And also create an environment where player development and entertainment it the number 1 priority.

Far too many coaches in youth football are still more concerned about winning and their own ego, than they are about coaching kids to develop. Its shameful the number of times every game you hear a coach shout 'get rid' or give praise to a child for just booting a ball out. When they should be encouraging children to keep the ball and take risk not shouting at them for giving the ball away.

Parents also need to take responsibility. I can't imagine why anyone would take their child to an activity that is supposed to be fun and find it acceptable for them to be shouted at for making mistakes.


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## Patster1969 (Jun 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes CL is boring until the knock out .
Should revert back imo, but to much money involved now.
		
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Money has pretty much ruined the game


rudebhoy said:



			restricting entry to the CL to champions would be a start. It's farcical that we have just had a "Champions League" final featuring 2 clubs from the same country, neither of who qualified as champions.
		
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It would definitely make it more interesting if they changed it so only the league champions plus the winners of the countries cup competitions get in - it would certainly bring back the prestige of the FA & League Cups and make the big teams respect it a bit more (you could have a playoff between the FA & League Cup winners to see who gets the 2nd entry).
I appreciate that there is zero chance of this happening though


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## Patster1969 (Jun 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That ship sailed a long time ago

The CL changed to stop all the top teams creating a Super League - it’s not going to go back to “champions” only
		
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And because the big teams wanted more money


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2021)

Patster1969 said:



			And because the big teams wanted more money
		
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Welcome to modern business in football - that’s what happens when the Premier League started and Sky bought the rights . The big teams wanted the money to be able to buy the big players that the fans want to see to be able to win the trophies that bring in the money - it’s a circle of money that all are involved in


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## rudebhoy (Jun 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That ship sailed a long time ago

The CL changed to stop all the top teams creating a Super League - it’s not going to go back to “champions” only
		
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Yes, I know it will never happen.

Maybe they should just change the name to The Rich Boys League.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 10, 2021)

If you take the Champions only out of one of the domestic cups and go back to European cup champions only.
Home and away knock out. Why could it not work?
I would rather watch that than some meaningless CL game.
2/3/4 th place go in a mini league in Europe ARC ( Also Rans Cup) 
Cup winners cup. FA a only .
That’s five places in Europe that’s enough imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you take the Champions only out of one of the domestic cups and go back to European cup champions only.
Home and away knock out. Why could it not work?
I would rather watch that than some meaningless CL game.
2/3/4 th place go in a mini league in Europe ARC ( Also Rans Cup)
Cup winners cup. FA a only .
That’s five places in Europe that’s enough imo.
		
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You are going back 30 years - the game has moved on from then whether we like it or not - the clubs aren’t going to go back to how it was before the CL


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## Piece (Jun 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I might be wrong but think these clubs already help grass root football quite a lot.
The money is not a problem it’s the damage to the reputation brought on by greedy owners.
		
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The flow of cash in football is big problem and has been for years. Grass roots get some, lower leagues get some. Nowhere near enough though. If you have clubs like Bury going out of business when a top player's weekly wage would easily sort that, that tells me not enough is being distributed. No-one's fault, it's just how it's geared. Only a complete reset of the model will make it fairer, but that really won't happen.


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## Piece (Jun 10, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			What, an owner that hasn't raised season ticket prices in 10 years is now supposed to lower them as a sorry?  I'm fine with him keeping the season ticket price that I've already paid and the apology he's already issued, thanks all the same.
		
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Good for you, I'm happy you're happy. 

Perhaps I live in a different football world where doing something for the fans is more than just a "sorry about that". After all, it's been rammed down our throats during lockdown that football is nothing without fans. Clearly, it really isn't, is it?


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 10, 2021)

Piece said:



			I would have like to see the words or the intention from these six clubs to make a substantial voluntary donation to grass roots on top of this "fine". *Plus maybe reducing season ticket prices as a "sorry" to the fans.*

Click to expand...




Piece said:



			Good for you, I'm happy you're happy. 

Perhaps I live in a different football world where *doing something for the fans is more than just a "sorry about that"*. After all, it's been rammed down our throats during lockdown that football is nothing without fans. Clearly, it really isn't, is it?
		
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So capping season ticket prices for 10 years isn't doing something for the fans; capping the air fares to Porto for the Champions League final at £199 when bucket airlines had prices the roof wasn't doing something for the fans; buying a club that was about to go under & building it up to what it is today isn't doing something for the fans; what exactly does he have to do to gain your approval? 

As a fan that has been going for over 40 years, this owner has done more than enough for the fans, and we are very grateful to him.  Did the club make a ricket with the ESL?  Yes they did, but they were the first to realise their error.  If an apology only counts to you if it comes with a cash handout then clearly you do live in a different world, and not one I want to be a part of.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You are going back 30 years - the game has moved on from then whether we like it or not - the clubs aren’t going to go back to how it was before the CL
		
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Maybe but imo it was better then .
Football is at saturation point and the CL is boring until the knockouts, there’s something on the games then.
That’s sadly lacking in the league stage.
But we all know it’s just about money now!


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## Piece (Jun 10, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			So capping season ticket prices for 10 years isn't doing something for the fans; capping the air fares to Porto for the Champions League final at £199 when bucket airlines had prices the roof wasn't doing something for the fans; buying a club that was about to go under & building it up to what it is today isn't doing something for the fans; what exactly does he have to do to gain your approval?
		
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Other clubs have frozen their season ticket prices (granted maybe not over 10 years, so that *is* commendable). Sheik Mansour offered to pay official travel to the Champions League final; they are many other examples of subsidised travel, not just to elite finals, but for a rainy cold away Tuesday night in Stoke for example. Many owners have come in and saved a club, mine included. My opinion is your examples aren't really any different to what most clubs are already doing/have done anyway; call it Business As Usual examples if you want.




			As a fan that has been going for over 40 years, this owner has done more than enough for the fans, and we are very grateful to him.  Did the club make a ricket with the ESL?  Yes they did, but they were the first to realise their error.  If an apology only counts to you if it comes with a cash handout then clearly you do live in a different world, and not one I want to be a part of.
		
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After the ESL debacle and COVID lockdown, I was hoping to see a shift in attitude from all of football to the fans, not just the ESL clubs. Having said that, back to my original point of view, if one or two ESL English clubs are going above and beyond to assist fans, flow additional money down the pyramid or do something that isn't what I consider BAU then that's great and it will be the start of a happier football world IMHO. Others then may follow suit and the game could change for the better. The fact that you are willing to see things as OK (general statement - please take that the right way ), then it's likely things will never change. I think we both want things to change in football, and part of that for me, is more fan appreciation whether through a season ticket "hand out", small discount on merch, fairer share of football revenue or whatever. Just something that shows that game-going fans really do matter and preserving the football pyramid matters, rather than tokenised words that football is "nothing without fans". Granted, seismic business football model changes are required for that to happen, but perhaps I'm dreaming if I think anything different would happen in light of recent events, however small, to start the process of change for the betterment of the game.

You are obviously happy and that's fine. . This fan isn't. In fact, I'm considering not renewing my season ticket because of the above despite the fact we are back in the EPL.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2021)

Piece said:



			Other clubs have frozen their season ticket prices (granted maybe not over 10 years, so that *is* commendable). Sheik Mansour offered to pay official travel to the Champions League final; they are many other examples of subsidised travel, not just to elite finals, but for a rainy cold away Tuesday night in Stoke for example. Many owners have come in and saved a club, mine included. My opinion is your examples aren't really any different to what most clubs are already doing/have done anyway; call it Business As Usual examples if you want.



After the ESL debacle and COVID lockdown, I was hoping to see a shift in attitude from all of football to the fans, not just the ESL clubs. Having said that, back to my original point of view, if one or two ESL English clubs are going above and beyond to assist fans, flow additional money down the pyramid or do something that isn't what I consider BAU then that's great and it will be the start of a happier football world IMHO. Others then may follow suit and the game could change for the better. The fact that you are willing to see things as OK (general statement - please take that the right way ), then it's likely things will never change. I think we both want things to change in football, and part of that for me, is more fan appreciation whether through a season ticket "hand out", small discount on merch, fairer share of football revenue or whatever. Just something that shows that game-going fans really do matter and preserving the football pyramid matters, rather than tokenised words that football is "nothing without fans". Granted, seismic business football model changes are required for that to happen, but perhaps I'm dreaming if I think anything different would happen in light of recent events, however small, to start the process of change for the betterment of the game.

You are obviously happy and that's fine. . This fan isn't. In fact, I'm considering not renewing my season ticket because of the above despite the fact we are back in the EPL.
		
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Nothing was going to change after the ESL stuff because unfortunately those clubs hold the cards with the Prem League and not the other way around 

The Premier League has now got to the stage that it just keeps the money rolling in .

Whilst people point fingers at clubs for all the ills and woes of the game maybe there should also be fingers pointed at - Sky, players and their agents - they are all smack bang in the middle of the money wheel 

The arrival of people like Abramovich and Mansoor changed the whole outlook - millions after millions spent not just on the top players but also the midrange players were suddenly picking up £50k a week , one of the reasons why the clubs went to the ESL was to allow them to get more money in to be able to spend on the big players 

Just look this summer - it’s been 12 months of many people counting the pennies yet the Prem will prob spend millions upon millions , clubs are going to look to spend £100mil on Kane , £150mil on Haaland 

It’s not going to change - the bubble won’t burst because people continue to buy sky buy more importantly sell the rights abroad. 

It’s just the way it is now and I can’t see what will stop it


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## larmen (Jun 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you take the Champions only out of one of the domestic cups and go back to European cup champions only.
Home and away knock out. Why could it not work?
I would rather watch that than some meaningless CL game.
2/3/4 th place go in a mini league in Europe ARC ( Also Rans Cup)
Cup winners cup. FA a only .
That’s five places in Europe that’s enough imo.
		
Click to expand...

Someone would be knocked out in the 1st round and crying about not making any money.

which is possibly a good thing?


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 10, 2021)

Piece said:



			Other clubs have frozen their season ticket prices (granted maybe not over 10 years, so that *is* commendable). Sheik Mansour offered to pay official travel to the Champions League final; they are many other examples of subsidised travel, not just to elite finals, but for a rainy cold away Tuesday night in Stoke for example. Many owners have come in and saved a club, mine included. My opinion is your examples aren't really any different to what most clubs are already doing/have done anyway; call it Business As Usual examples if you want.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/foundation/blue-pitches

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/foundation

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2021/02/15/chelsea-fc-launch-say-no-to-antisemitism-website

Chelsea started subsidising away travel for fans to most if not all domestic games back in 2014 so I think Roman has covered Tuesday nights in Stoke.  I'm also aware that when the pitch has been relaid at Stamford Bridge, the old one has been relaid at non-league clubs with whom we have an affiliation.  I believe they also sponsor or assisted in setting up a local bus service in the Cobham area at the behest of the local Councillor. 

So is Chelsea's owner actually doing anything for the fans or the community, or is all this just business as usual?




Piece said:



			After the ESL debacle and COVID lockdown, I was hoping to see a shift in attitude from all of football to the fans, not just the ESL clubs. Having said that, back to my original point of view, if one or two ESL English clubs are going above and beyond to assist fans, flow additional money down the pyramid or do something that isn't what I consider BAU then that's great and it will be the start of a happier football world IMHO. Others then may follow suit and the game could change for the better. The fact that you are willing to see things as OK (general statement - please take that the right way ), then it's likely things will never change. I think we both want things to change in football, and part of that for me, is more fan appreciation whether through a season ticket "hand out", small discount on merch, fairer share of football revenue or whatever. Just something that shows that game-going fans really do matter and preserving the football pyramid matters, rather than tokenised words that football is "nothing without fans". Granted, seismic business football model changes are required for that to happen, but perhaps I'm dreaming if I think anything different would happen in light of recent events, however small, to start the process of change for the betterment of the game.

You are obviously happy and that's fine. . This fan isn't. In fact, I'm considering not renewing my season ticket because of the above despite the fact we are back in the EPL.
		
Click to expand...

When you originally posted about reducing season ticket prices and doing more than just saying sorry, I took it as it read; that the owners of the clubs involved should be saying sorry to their own fans or making restitution to their own fans. I didn't see anything about them flowing money down the rest of the football pyramid, and I based my response to your post on how my club has treated me.  And yes, I'm very happy with that.

Am I happy with the way the game is administered; no, I'm not, but that wasn't what the original post asked.  Yes, wealth should be distributed more fairly and no, there shouldn't be footballers earning in a month what nurses & coppers earn in a lifetime.  But the blame for this lies squarely at the feet of those in the FA, Premier League & UEFA who have sold the TV rights to Sky & the game down the river.

I do not feel underappreciated in any way, shape or form by my club & my owner, and I'm happy with what he has done for me as a fan.  Where I do feel underappreciated is by Sky, who have been given licence by the domestic governing bodies to bugger about with kick off times to their heart's content and by UEFA; my contempt for them is well recorded on this site.  They have interfered with European competitions to drag as much money out of the fans as possible, and in doing so have succeeded in diminishing the importance of the domestic cup competitions.  Sadly as @Liverpoolphil has said, that genie is well & truly out of the bottle & I don't see anything changing anytime soon.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 11, 2021)

larmen said:



			Someone would be knocked out in the 1st round and crying about not making any money.

which is possibly a good thing?
		
Click to expand...

They could just divvy up the TV money at the start.
So all teams get the same no matter how far you go.
The winners get a bonus ( insert sum here) so winners get more that’s how it should be.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 11, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57435400


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57435400



Click to expand...

I must be missing something, but how does thicker lines help eliminate narrow offsides? By making the attacker's line thicker it moves it closer to the goal so will still be offside even with a thicker defender's line. It's still all going to be about where they choose to draw the line.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57435400



Click to expand...

Maybe less thick officials may be better.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I must be missing something, but how does thicker lines help eliminate narrow offsides? By making the attacker's line thicker it moves it closer to the goal so will still be offside even with a thicker defender's line. It's still all going to be about *where they choose to draw the line.*

Click to expand...

And that is the issue; where they choose to draw it & what frame they use.  I can remember one this season where the ball appears to have left the foot of the attacker; sorry, but the ball is played the moment it is hit, not when it leaves the foot.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe less thick officials may be better.
		
Click to expand...

Some responses to this from a football chat room;

Won't stop them from freezing the frame at different times, depending on the club

They'll still then have a way to fudge it to suit the answer they want

If both lines are made thicker, how does change anything?

Last bit of that article is farcical. 
Decisions were less consistent...but at least they were faster!

It doesn't, just gives them a "well, we adjusted it to make it better" excuse 
It'll still be the same (description removed to avoid a royal Fraggering) at Stockley Park making mistakes week in, week out

*Still the same thickness of referees adjudicating though unfortunately*

Didn't know you posted on that site Pete...


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## Orikoru (Jun 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57435400



Click to expand...

The game is being run by idiots. Try no lines and using your eyes for God's sake!


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## fundy (Jun 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And that is the issue; where they choose to draw it & what frame they use.  I can remember one this season where the ball appears to have left the foot of the attacker; sorry, but the ball is played the moment it is hit, not when it leaves the foot.  

Click to expand...


you only have to see how many frames they go through on snicko in the cricket to see if theres been an edge to know how accurate the pick a frame is currently!


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## Piece (Jun 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The game is being run by idiots. Try no lines and using your eyes for God's sake!
		
Click to expand...



and then you'll have managers and fans wanting technology to help...rinse...repeat


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## Orikoru (Jun 11, 2021)

Piece said:





and then you'll have managers and fans wanting technology to help...rinse...repeat 

Click to expand...

No, my point is use the video replay but simply look at it and see if he looks offside. It feels like the answer is staring them in the face but they've walked straight past it. Occam's Razor I think they call it.


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## sunshine (Jun 11, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			restricting entry to the CL to champions would be a start. It's farcical that we have just had a "Champions League" final featuring 2 clubs from the same country, neither of who qualified as champions.
		
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Although I agree with you, creating the champions league i.e. introducing a group stage instead of straight knock out, was a stroke of genius. It made the competition much more interesting. I remember a period in the 90s after the group stage had been introduced but the competition was still limited to league champions - for me that was the peak period. Of course it's now become a bloated monster.


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## sunshine (Jun 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I just ordered one of these. Bit of retro quality for only 30 quid. 

Click to expand...

I am a fan of the 1990 England shirts (especially the home shirt), immortalised by the World in Motion video and Gazza's tears.

But £30 for that! It looks like something you'd get in a market stall for a fiver.


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## Orikoru (Jun 11, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Although I agree with you, creating the champions league i.e. introducing a group stage instead of straight knock out, was a stroke of genius. It made the competition much more interesting. I remember a period in the 90s after the group stage had been introduced but the competition was still limited to league champions - for me that was the peak period. Of course it's now become a bloated monster.
		
Click to expand...

I don't know though - I only know this because of Champ Manager 01/02 but in those years there were two group stages! Once you get through the first one the second round was a group stage as well.  I don't think the group format was to make it more exciting, it's just to ensure everyone gets at least 6 games for the £££. Instead of crashing out unexpectedly and missing out.


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## Orikoru (Jun 11, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I am a fan of the 1990 England shirts (especially the home shirt), immortalised by the World in Motion video and Gazza's tears.

But £30 for that! It looks like something you'd get in a market stall for a fiver.
		
Click to expand...

Well if I wanted a genuine one from that time it was 50-60 quid in most places and I wasn't willing to put that much outlay down for something that's 20 years old, ha.


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## Piece (Jun 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



*No, my point is use the video replay but simply look at it and see if he looks offside.* It feels like the answer is staring them in the face but they've walked straight past it. Occam's Razor I think they call it.
		
Click to expand...

That's assuming you have a dead-level central camera angle.


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## Orikoru (Jun 11, 2021)

Piece said:



			That's assuming you have a dead-level central camera angle. 

Click to expand...

They definitely have enough cameras! If it's too tight to judge we resume giving the benefit of the doubt to the attacker like we used to but don't anymore.


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## Rooter (Jun 11, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I am a fan of the 1990 England shirts (especially the home shirt), immortalised by the World in Motion video and Gazza's tears.

But £30 for that! It looks like something you'd get in a market stall for a fiver.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, but nothing beats the 1982 shirt.


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## Orikoru (Jun 11, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Sorry, but nothing beats the 1982 shirt.
		
Click to expand...

'90 was retro enough for me, I didn't want to go for one from before I was born.


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## Fade and Die (Jun 11, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I am a fan of the 1990 England shirts (especially the home shirt), immortalised by the World in Motion video and Gazza's tears.

But £30 for that! It looks like something you'd get in a market stall for a fiver.
		
Click to expand...

It does come with 4 white garden chairs for you to throw at the neighbours when England go out. 😁


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Some responses to this from a football chat room;

Won't stop them from freezing the frame at different times, depending on the club

They'll still then have a way to fudge it to suit the answer they want

If both lines are made thicker, how does change anything?

Last bit of that article is farcical. 
Decisions were less consistent...but at least they were faster!

It doesn't, just gives them a "well, we adjusted it to make it better" excuse 
It'll still be the same (description removed to avoid a royal Fraggering) at Stockley Park making mistakes week in, week out

*Still the same thickness of referees adjudicating though unfortunately*

Didn't know you posted on that site Pete... 

Click to expand...

Agree on the lot above, especially the freezing the frames at different times depending on how much the ref likes/dislikes that club.


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## Orikoru (Jun 11, 2021)

I know it has plenty of faults but do we really believe the officials are intentionally stopping the replays on different frames to favour certain teams!? That's tinfoil hat stuff.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I know it has plenty of faults but do we really believe the officials are intentionally stopping the replays on different frames to favour certain teams!? That's tinfoil hat stuff. 

Click to expand...

Given access to all the stills it wouldn't take long to prove I'm afraid.  There are simply too many instances of incorrect decisions (not only offsides) that VAR should either have sorted out one come to a different conclusion on.  Whether it is corruption or ineptitude is a harder matter to determine but if you think that there is no favouritism in football then you're the one wearing the tin hat.

https://www.planetfootball.com/nost...ry-refereeing-mistake-chelsea-barcelona-2009/


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## AmandaJR (Jun 11, 2021)

So I've cleared the diary for the England matches and find myself getting sucked into the thoughts we might win this one.

Not quite so intense as previous tournaments and no wall chart pinned up in forlorn hope but...55 years of hurt never stopped me dreaming!


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## Orikoru (Jun 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			So I've cleared the diary for the England matches and find myself getting sucked into the thoughts we might win this one.

Not quite so intense as previous tournaments and no wall chart pinned up in forlorn hope but...55 years of hurt never stopped me dreaming!
		
Click to expand...

It's the hope that kills you. Personally I think France, Portugal & Belgium are all better than us. If it goes like I expect it to, we win the group but lose the first knockout game against Portugal, or maybe Germany. The draw is against us this time. Unless we come 2nd in the group, then we lose in the quarters against France.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's the hope that kills you. Personally I think France, Portugal & Belgium are all better than us. If it goes like I expect it to, we win the group but lose the first knockout game against Portugal, or maybe Germany. The draw is against us this time. Unless we come 2nd in the group, then we lose in the quarters against France.
		
Click to expand...

Anything can happen in a one off game. 

Everyone was better than Greece!


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## Orikoru (Jun 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Given access to all the stills it wouldn't take long to prove I'm afraid.  There are simply too many instances of incorrect decisions (not only offsides) that VAR should either have sorted out one come to a different conclusion on.  Whether it is corruption or ineptitude is a harder matter to determine but if you think that there is no favouritism in football then you're the one wearing the tin hat.

https://www.planetfootball.com/nost...ry-refereeing-mistake-chelsea-barcelona-2009/

Click to expand...

I'm sorry I just can't believe that. Big clubs have all had plenty go against them. Your example of a game that occurred a decade before VAR hasn't persuaded me either.


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## Orikoru (Jun 11, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Anything can happen in a one off game.

Everyone was better than Greece!
		
Click to expand...

Obviously it's possible, but given how poor our defence and keeper are, we'd have to make the most of our attack and go out and score 2 or 3 goals against some good sides - that's just not the Southgate way. That Greece team had a very well-organised defence and were able to scrape 1-0s.


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## larmen (Jun 11, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Anything can happen in a one off game.

Everyone was better than Greece!
		
Click to expand...

And Denmark didn’t even qualify when they won it.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sorry I just can't believe that. Big clubs have all had plenty go against them. Your example of a game that occurred a decade before VAR hasn't persuaded me either. 

Click to expand...

The point being made, as I'm sure you are well aware, is referees showing favouritism.  After an all-English final in 2008, UEFA were staring down the barrel of a repeat unless Barcelona went through.  And surprise surprise, a match in which pretty much every major decision went Barcelona's way.  If you're having a bad day at the office you screw up decisions in both directions; when it's a one way street, something else is going on, especially when most refs will try to "square up" any obvious screw ups.  And these were that obvious that you didn't need VAR to sort them out, as Dermot Gallagher made clear when he reviewed them.


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## fundy (Jun 11, 2021)

Ive spent many years criticising my club for destroying asset values. Think ive just found the definitive quote on it:

Since 2013, Arsenal made over 30 FIRST TEAM signings (excluding free agents) and are yet to make a profit on the sale of a single one of them. The last 2 players Arsenal signed for money and made a profit on was Giroud (signed 2012) and Chamberlain (signed 2011).

Wow, when you know somethings bad, really bad, but dont realise just how bad!!!!

(This obv excludes home grown players or those signed before so our only successes when dealing with Everton arent counted  )


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## Slime (Jun 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's the hope that kills you. Personally I think *France, Portugal & Belgium are all better than us.* If it goes like I expect it to, we win the group but lose the first knockout game against Portugal, or maybe Germany. The draw is against us this time. Unless we come 2nd in the group, then we lose in the quarters against France.
		
Click to expand...

I think Turkey may cause one or two upsets.


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## Dando (Jun 11, 2021)

This made me chuckle


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## Piece (Jun 11, 2021)

For those with a 4k TV and BBC iPlayer app on it, you can watch BBC coverage in UHD. 👍


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## nickjdavis (Jun 11, 2021)

Decent pride and passion from the teams singing their respective National anthems. Good start.


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## nickjdavis (Jun 11, 2021)

you are kidding me? an RC car bringing the ball onto the pitch?


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## Slime (Jun 11, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			you are kidding me? an RC car bringing the ball onto the pitch?
		
Click to expand...

When I was at the 2012 Olympics they were sending out RC cars to collect the shots used in the shot putting competition.
Really good idea as the cars were all operated by children, who appeared to be loving it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 11, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			you are kidding me? an RC car bringing the ball onto the pitch?
		
Click to expand...

Both a great advert for VW, we were all watching it weren't we, but it also united everyone in Europe in hoping it breaks 🤣


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## nickjdavis (Jun 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			When I was at the 2012 Olympics they were sending out RC cars to collect the shots used in the shot putting competition.
Really good idea as the cars were all operated by children, who appeared to be loving it.
		
Click to expand...

That makes sense as the shots would need constant collection.



Lord Tyrion said:



			Both a great advert for VW, we were all watching it weren't we, but it also united everyone in Europe in hoping it breaks 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I didn't even notice the make.


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## fundy (Jun 11, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Both a great advert for VW, we were all watching it weren't we, but it also united everyone in Europe in hoping it breaks 🤣
		
Click to expand...


waits for the emission test results.......


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 11, 2021)

Looked like an ID4 😎


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 11, 2021)

Interesting - Scotland will 'take the knee' before the England game as a show of solidarity with their England friends and colleagues as a result of the booing of the England team before their last game.  Normal hostilities can then commence.

In other matches the Scottish team will stand.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 11, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Interesting - Scotland will 'take the knee' before the England game as a show of solidarity with their England friends and colleagues as a result of the booing of the England team before their last game.  Normal hostilities can then commence.

In other matches the Scottish team will stand.
		
Click to expand...

That seems slightly odd. The point of taking the knee is to highlight racism within football and make people think. If they are going to do it in the game v England then why not throughout?


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## Kellfire (Jun 11, 2021)

I really hope this isn’t Turkey’s approach to every game. Zzz.


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## Piece (Jun 11, 2021)

Italians getting flustered because they think they should have had 10 penalties for handball. Ref has done well and a couple of yellows for them wouldn't go amiss. 😉


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## fundy (Jun 11, 2021)

Piece said:



			Italians getting flustered because they think they should have had 10 penalties for handball. Ref has done well and a couple of yellows for them wouldn't go amiss. 😉
		
Click to expand...


lets hope soft pens arent the order of the day as they were at the start of the prem season


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## fundy (Jun 11, 2021)

Italy been excellent against an awful Turkey side


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## Piece (Jun 11, 2021)

First Turkey of 2021 being stuffed


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			When I was at the 2012 Olympics they were sending out RC cars to collect the shots used in the shot putting competition.
Really good idea as the cars were all operated by children, who appeared to be loving it.
		
Click to expand...

I was just hoping it pulled away a few feet as the referee went to collect the ball...


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 12, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			That makes sense as the shots would need constant collection.



I didn't even notice the make.
		
Click to expand...

They will need that to collect most of England’s shots.


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## Piece (Jun 12, 2021)

Are Wales doing a Turkey? I.e. not showing up


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## Piece (Jun 12, 2021)

Piece said:



			Are Wales doing a Turkey? I.e. not showing up
		
Click to expand...

🤣👏👏


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2021)

Is Antony Taylor really the best ref the Prem can send to the Euros 😲🤦‍♂️


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## Piece (Jun 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is Antony Taylor really the best ref the Prem can send to the Euros 😲🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Michael Oliver too...


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## pokerjoke (Jun 12, 2021)

That’s seriously worrying 
Come on Ericsson


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## Captainron (Jun 12, 2021)

CPR on the pitch! Holy crap


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## SteveW86 (Jun 12, 2021)

Memories of muamba and Marc vivien Foe


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2021)

Doesn’t look good for him


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## Piece (Jun 12, 2021)

JFC 😢


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## AmandaJR (Jun 12, 2021)

Oh crikey - please be ok...


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## Kellfire (Jun 12, 2021)

This is horrible. Absolutely horrible. Can only hope they’re being super precautious.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 12, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Memories of muamba and Marc vivien Foe
		
Click to expand...

David Longhurst too :-(


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## JustOne (Jun 12, 2021)

Jeeezz....... very sad.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2021)

The ground seemed to be clapping and be looked like he was being moved on a stretcher


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## AmandaJR (Jun 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The ground seemed to be clapping and be looked like he was being moved on a stretcher
		
Click to expand...

I hope so. I'm blubbing here...how does that happen to an athlete in his prime. It is heartbreaking beyond heartbreaking. Please be ok...


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## road2ruin (Jun 12, 2021)

BBC are a disgrace, pitch invader and they manage to avoid any showing yet Eriksson and his wife and shown for over 5 minutes. Wish him well.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 12, 2021)

@beINSPORTS are reporting that he is stable and being transferred to the local Copenhagen hospital.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I hope so. I'm blubbing here...how does that happen to an athlete in his prime. It is heartbreaking beyond heartbreaking. Please be ok...
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403762594775715854


road2ruin said:



			BBC are a disgrace, pitch invader and they manage to avoid any showing yet Eriksson and his wife and shown for over 5 minutes. Wish him well.
		
Click to expand...

The pictures are from UEFA and the home broadcaster


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## fundy (Jun 12, 2021)

Please please be the truth not some sick posts on social media

sad state we live in when you dont trust the good news being posted initially


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## BiMGuy (Jun 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403762594775715854

The pictures are from UEFA and the home broadcaster
		
Click to expand...

The BBC could have cut to the studio. Still, people were free to turn their tv off too.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403762594775715854

The pictures are from UEFA and the home broadcaster
		
Click to expand...




fundy said:



			Please please be the truth not some sick posts on social media

sad state we live in when you dont trust the good news being posted initially 

Click to expand...

I thought the same and so hope that's the truth. Please let him survive...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			Please please be the truth not some sick posts on social media

sad state we live in when you dont trust the good news being posted initially 

Click to expand...

I know it’s hard to trust sources but it’s on german Telly now as well


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## fundy (Jun 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know it’s hard to trust sources but it’s on german Telly now as well
		
Click to expand...


the first few posts i saw were retweets of retweets from accounts with very few followers, sad that my default thought is cynicism, especially when you so want it to be true


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## AmandaJR (Jun 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know it’s hard to trust sources but it’s on german Telly now as well
		
Click to expand...

I don't normally do Twitter but seems some official sources suggesting he's alive and stable. Cannot imagine how terrifying it is for him and his family.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 12, 2021)

There's photos on social media of him being stretchered off with an oxygen mask on and his eyes open. Not going to repost them as can't verify them and not sure it something that should be posted either.


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## fundy (Jun 12, 2021)

UEFA  @UEFA
59s
Following the medical emergency involving Denmark’s player Christian Eriksen, a crisis meeting has taken place with both teams and match officials and further information will be communicated at 19:45 CET. 

The player has been transferred to the hospital and has been stabilised


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 12, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			BBC are a disgrace, pitch invader and they manage to avoid any showing yet Eriksson and his wife and shown for over 5 minutes. Wish him well.
		
Click to expand...

Rock and a hard place; if they cover it they'll be wrong according to some, and if they don't cover it they'll be wrong according to some.  Given the circumstances I thought they took a reasonably decent approach.

Hopefully that picture is correct & he will recover.  Good luck Christian.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			UEFA  @UEFA
59s
Following the medical emergency involving Denmark’s player Christian Eriksen, a crisis meeting has taken place with both teams and match officials and further information will be communicated at 19:45 CET.

The player has been transferred to the hospital and has been stabilised
		
Click to expand...


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## Mudball (Jun 12, 2021)

There is a miracle…


----------



## Slime (Jun 12, 2021)

Seems he's okay, he even sat up whilst being stretchered off. 
He's off to hospital to be stabilised.
Awesome news.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 12, 2021)

Brilliant news let’s hope he makes a full recovery.
Well done the medical team just brilliant your a credit to your profession.
Well done Anthony Taylor for his quick response (lucky we sent him).


----------



## Piece (Jun 12, 2021)

That was horrible watching that. He collapses and then camera zooms in and he’s out of it. Then we see CPR and a defibrillator being used. Fear the worst. 

Brilliant to hear the seemingly good news and a phenomenal job by the medics. The ref was quick too. Lessons learnt from previous tragedies has saved Eriksen. 🙌


----------



## fundy (Jun 12, 2021)

Piece said:



			That was horrible watching that. He collapses and then camera zooms in and he’s out of it. Then we see CPR and a defibrillator being used. Fear the worst. 

Brilliant to hear the seemingly good news and a phenomenal job by the medics. The ref was quick too. Lessons learnt from previous tragedies has saved Eriksen. 🙌
		
Click to expand...



credit where its due, Anthony Taylor was excellent!

have to admit I turned it over as soon as I saw Kjaers reaction, instantly knew it was bad


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 12, 2021)

That was one of the worst things I've seen when watching football. Must admit I wasn't confident when I saw him stretchered off with the shroud round him and the images of his partner were heartbreaking. Seemingly he is okay and can only hope he makes a full recovery.

Puts a lot of things into perspective.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			credit where its due, Anthony Taylor was excellent!

have to admit I turned it over as soon as I saw Kjaers reaction, instantly knew it was bad
		
Click to expand...

The reaction from all was excellent - couple of footballers now on social media talking about the players being played to the point of exhaustion over the past 12 months - I hope its something like that as opposed to more serious with his heart


----------



## Captainron (Jun 12, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			BBC are a disgrace, pitch invader and they manage to avoid any showing yet Eriksson and his wife and shown for over 5 minutes. Wish him well.
		
Click to expand...

I thought the BBC did a great job. The footage was provided by UEFA I believe.


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## Ethan (Jun 12, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			That was one of the worst things I've seen when watching football. Must admit I wasn't confident when I saw him stretchered off with the shroud round him and the images of his partner were heartbreaking. Seemingly he is okay and can only hope he makes a full recovery.

Puts a lot of things into perspective.
		
Click to expand...

If he had a rhythm disturbance that either settled or was corrected without too much time without oxygen getting to his brain, he may well be OK, and either medication, a pacemaker or a relatively minor procedure to fix an area of his heart causing the arrhythmia may fix it pretty well. Reports that he was sitting up are very encouraging. 

Even if he makes a full physical recovery, his career as a footballer is probably over.


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## chrisd (Jun 12, 2021)

It looked really bad as I had turned TV on just after he collapsed, but big thanks to the medics etc who have probably savid his life


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## Piece (Jun 12, 2021)

Wow. Den v Fin is going to played tonight!


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## fundy (Jun 12, 2021)

Piece said:



			Wow. Den v Fin is going to played tonight!
		
Click to expand...


Have to assume this is good news, surely they only make this decision having consulted with how he is and that both teams are ok. surely?


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## Piece (Jun 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			Have to assume this is good news, surely they only make this decision having consulted with how he is and that both teams are ok. surely?
		
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Both teams apparently agreed to finish it. No doubt with consultation with Eriksen and family.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The reaction from all was excellent - couple of footballers now on social media talking about the players being played to the point of exhaustion over the past 12 months - I hope its something like that as opposed to more serious with his heart
		
Click to expand...

Then these players are totally wrong.
It only takes a couple of people to talk crap and there’s always some idiot that latches on to it and starts spreading muck.
In this day and age players are monitored daily and have access to the best recovery processes.
Have the best nutritionist to keep them in the best condition.
They are Athletes at the end of the day and are super fit.
Also if that was the case regarding exhaustion we will see a lot more incidents like this.
Fit people are not exempt from heart attacks.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			credit where its due, *Anthony Taylor was excellent!*

have to admit I turned it over as soon as I saw Kjaers reaction, instantly knew it was bad
		
Click to expand...

Hasn't taken long for him to sink to his normal level.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Hasn't taken long for him to sink to his normal level. 

Click to expand...

As a referee he is just appalling 

This is quality from Kjaer


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403780416474124290


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 12, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Hasn't taken long for him to sink to his normal level. 

Click to expand...

Yes seems every accidental contact is a foul now.

Didn’t see the Ericsson incident.
Hope he’s ok .


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Then these players are totally wrong.
It only takes a couple of people to talk crap and there’s always some idiot that latches on to it and starts spreading muck.
In this day and age players are monitored daily and have access to the best recovery processes.
Have the best nutritionist to keep them in the best condition.
They are Athletes at the end of the day and are super fit.
Also if that was the case regarding exhaustion we will see a lot more incidents like this.
Fit people are not exempt from heart attacks.
		
Click to expand...

It does make me wonder how this wasn’t picked up as they are monitored all the time.
Maybe something unusual.
Just hope the lads ok.


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## fundy (Jun 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As a referee he is just appalling 

This is quality from Kjaer


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403780416474124290

Click to expand...


Kjaer wasnt himself according to the comms. Beggars belief


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 12, 2021)

How can that be a goal for Belgium.
He’s miles offside.
Defender makes a mess of it but he dosnt know he’s offside .


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## larmen (Jun 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			It does make me wonder how this wasn’t picked up as they are monitored all the time.
Maybe something unusual.
Just hope the lads ok.
		
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I think it’s just the French league which has compulsory heart screening, all others it’s just your team doctor observing the players. And they are not having heart MRIs as standard test.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 12, 2021)

The commentary praising AT and his team


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## pokerjoke (Jun 12, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			That was one of the worst things I've seen when watching football. Must admit I wasn't confident when I saw him stretchered off with the shroud round him and the images of his partner were heartbreaking. Seemingly he is okay and can only hope he makes a full recovery.

Puts a lot of things into perspective.
		
Click to expand...

No it doesn’t 
Someone nearly died on the football pitch tonight and within 30 minutes people are back to being haters,slagging off refs etc.
Haters will be haters because there lives evolve around it.


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## Piece (Jun 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			The commentary praising AT and his team
		
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I thought he had a good game and the pen was pen, IMO.


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## larmen (Jun 12, 2021)

Ethan said:



			Even if he makes a full physical recovery, his career as a footballer is probably over.
		
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I just remembered Gerald Asamoah, German internal striker. Not sure exactly what he had and when, but he was told he would never play again. And from some point every training session, ever match the player was in the squad there was a medic with a defibrillator present.
Not sure what it did to his insurance premiums, that’s possibly the prohibitive bit these days.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			It does make me wonder how this wasn’t picked up as they are monitored all the time.
Maybe something unusual.
Just hope the lads ok.
		
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I guess it depends on what caused the issue - I believe they do get a lot of stringent medical tests and especially HCM tests after the Foe and Muamba incidents. If it is picked up just like with James Taylor then it’s career stopped


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## davidy233 (Jun 12, 2021)

Denmark tonight took me back to being at Hillsborough in the Forest end and seeing Liverpool lads die (I'd never seen a dead body before that)- Klopp got it right when the pandemic hit when he said "Football if the most important of the things that don't really matter' - don't hate anyone over their football preferences


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			Denmark tonight took me back to being at Hillsborough in the Forest end and seeing Liverpool lads die (I'd never seen a dead body before that)- Klopp got it right when the pandemic hit when he said "Football if the most important of the things that don't really matter' - don't hate anyone over their football preferences
		
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Hate is a word that’s imo used far too quickly when it comes to football - team rivalry many times gets mistaken for hatred far too often , there aren’t many football fans who should really hate someone else just because of who they support


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## fundy (Jun 12, 2021)

Denmark head coach Kasper Hjulmand: "We had two options to play the game [today] or tomorrow at 12pm and everyone agreed to play today. You can't play a game with such feelings. We tried to win. It was incredible they managed to go out and try to play the second half."

Yet UEFA want to portray it as the players wanted to play tonight!


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## Orikoru (Jun 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			How can that be a goal for Belgium.
He’s miles offside.
Defender makes a mess of it but he dosnt know he’s offside .
		
Click to expand...

They must have changed this rule in recent years and I think it's ridiculous. If you try and pass to someone who's offside, then they should be offside, end of. Why is it suddenly the case that if a defender tries to clear it that cancels the offside?? He's only having to clear it *because* there's a player there.. who's offside!! Honestly the people writing the laws don't have a brain between them I don't think. Best course of action for the defender there would have been to do absolutely nothing I guess. Because that's logical.


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## davidy233 (Jun 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hate is a word that’s imo used far too quickly when it comes to football - team rivalry many times gets mistaken for hatred far too often , there aren’t many football fans who should really hate someone else just because of who they support
		
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Noise up your mate in the pub - rest of it is bullshit - When I saw his missus standing at the side of the pitch being stopped from going to him by Kasper Schmeichel and another couple of his team mates I went straight back to unexpectedly watching a Liverpool fan struggling for his life from the Kop end at Hillsborough back then - I love football, I love banter over it with mates - if it's not paying your mortgage it doesn't matter at all


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			They must have changed this rule in recent years and I think it's ridiculous. If you try and pass to someone who's offside, then they should be offside, end of. Why is it suddenly the case that if a defender tries to clear it that cancels the offside?? He's only having to clear it *because* there's a player there.. who's offside!! Honestly the people writing the laws don't have a brain between them I don't think. Best course of action for the defender there would have been to do absolutely nothing I guess. Because that's logical.
		
Click to expand...

Can you imagine the manager asking the defender “ why did you let that go”
He has no idea if he’s offside or not he can’t let that go .
So Lukaku is interfering with his decision to play the ball and is active imo.
As you say “ who makes these rules up “


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2021)

incredible image and the perfect example of what a team will do for a teammate


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That seems slightly odd. The point of taking the knee is to highlight racism within football and make people think. If they are going to do it in the game v England then why not throughout?
		
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Support to their English colleagues after they were previously booed.  I wouldn’t put it past the Scottish fans to decide to applaud the players when they are all taking the knee to contrast with and highlight any booing that might occur by England fans.😘


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			They must have changed this rule in recent years and I think it's ridiculous. If you try and pass to someone who's offside, then they should be offside, end of. Why is it suddenly the case that if a defender tries to clear it that cancels the offside?? He's only having to clear it *because* there's a player there.. who's offside!! Honestly the people writing the laws don't have a brain between them I don't think. Best course of action for the defender there would have been to do absolutely nothing I guess. Because that's logical.
		
Click to expand...

It is totally counter intuitive and was designed by an idiot. It will bring more goals but make the game look silly.


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## Ethan (Jun 13, 2021)

larmen said:



			I just remembered Gerald Asamoah, German internal striker. Not sure exactly what he had and when, but he was told he would never play again. And from some point every training session, ever match the player was in the squad there was a medic with a defibrillator present.
Not sure what it did to his insurance premiums, that’s possibly the prohibitive bit these days.
		
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Eriksen may well be OK at a man in the street level, but just not as an athlete. Players do get a lot of screening for cardiomyopathy these days - I think the death of Terry Yorath's son at age 16 or so was a big driver for that - and regular stress tests to look for cardiac issues, but it is obviously isn't foolproof.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Support to their English colleagues after they were previously booed.  I wouldn’t put it past the Scottish fans to decide to applaud the players when they are all taking the knee to contrast with and highlight any booing that might occur by England fans.😘
		
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Pro footballers are booed all of their lives. Booing is water off a ducks back. They don't need a cuddle for 1 match because of booing.


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

I see now why Southgate wanted four right backs in his initial squad - so one could play left back 😳.

I have read a number of reports that he is set to start Kieran Trippier out of position on the left of a back four, which would be a baffling selection ahead of Chilwell and Shaw.

Elsewhere, the odds of Jack Grealish starting seem to be lengthening by the minute. It might be time for me to revisit my Super 6 predictions 🙄


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I see now why Southgate wanted four right backs in his initial squad - so one could play left back 😳.

I have read a number of reports that he is set to start Kieran Trippier out of position on the left of a back four, which would be a baffling selection ahead of Chilwell and Shaw.

Elsewhere, the odds of Jack Grealish starting seem to be lengthening by the minute. It might be time for me to revisit my Super 6 predictions 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Not sure where he heard it but a fella in the pub last night was saying Southgate is going to start Rashford and Sterling along with Kane, utter madness if it's true, you have one of the best up and coming attacking midfielders in the world in Foden and he's on the bench, and instead he starts two players woefully short of any sort of form and neither could lace Fodens boots.
I really hope the bloke was wrong. 
What is it with England managers, they always seem to go with the tried and tested, but always failing, rather than something fresh and exciting.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I see now why Southgate wanted four right backs in his initial squad - so one could play left back 😳.

I have read a number of reports that he is set to start Kieran Trippier out of position on the left of a back four, which would be a baffling selection ahead of Chilwell and Shaw.

Elsewhere, the odds of Jack Grealish starting seem to be lengthening by the minute. It might be time for me to revisit my Super 6 predictions 🙄
		
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Not a surprise.
Imo nobody should play out of position while we have lads that play that position.
What does that say to them.
Unless it’s a specific man marking job.??


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Not sure where he heard it but a fella in the pub last night was saying Southgate is going to start Rashford and Sterling along with Kane, utter madness if it's true, you have one of the best up and coming attacking midfielders in the world in Foden and he's on the bench, and instead he starts two players woefully short of any sort of form and neither could lace Fodens boots.
I really hope the bloke was wrong.
What is it with England managers, they always seem to go with the tried and tested, but always failing, rather than something fresh and exciting.
		
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Hope not !
But blokes in pubs and on the internet have a habit of being wrong.!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Not sure where he heard it but a fella in the pub last night was saying Southgate is going to start Rashford and Sterling along with Kane, utter madness if it's true, you have one of the best up and coming attacking midfielders in the world in Foden and he's on the bench, and instead he starts two players woefully short of any sort of form and neither could lace Fodens boots.
I really hope the bloke was wrong.
What is it with England managers, they always seem to go with the tried and tested, but always failing, rather than something fresh and exciting.
		
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There is lots of social media talk that it’s going to be a back 5 plus 2 sitting 

Pickford 

James 
Walker 
Stones 
Shaw
Trippier

Rice
Phillips/Henderson

Sterling
Kane
Rashford


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is lots of social media talk that it’s going to be a back 5 plus 2 sitting

Pickford

James
Walker
Stones
Shaw
Trippier

Rice
Phillips/Henderson

Sterling
Kane
Rashford
		
Click to expand...

That's a shocker of a line up 😬


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 13, 2021)

I've just been reading an article that had this as the starting line up.......

GK: Jordan Pickford

RB: Kyle Walker

CB: John Stones

CB: Tyrone Mings

LB: Kieran Trippier

CDM: Declan Rice

CDM: Kalvin Phillips

CAM: Mason Mount

LW: Raheem Sterling

RW: Phil Foden

ST: Harry Kane  

Seems to be lots of different opinions on what Southgate's going to do.


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not a surprise.
Imo nobody should play out of position while we have lads that play that position.
What does that say to them.
		
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Especially given the season Shaw, in particular, has just had. 

A decision to bench Grealish would be the bigger disappointment for me. One of the best attacking midfielders we’ve had in thirty years.


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've just been reading an article that had this as the starting line up.......

GK: Jordan Pickford

RB: Kyle Walker

CB: John Stones

CB: Tyrone Mings

LB: Kieran Trippier

CDM: Declan Rice

CDM: Kalvin Phillips

CAM: Mason Mount

LW: Raheem Sterling

RW: Phil Foden

ST: Harry Kane  

Seems to be lots of different opinions on what Southgate's going to do.
		
Click to expand...

We may have read the same article(s). Two holding midfielders with Grealish on the bench might have me mowing my lawn rather than watching the game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			That's a shocker of a line up 😬
		
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It is but it’s what you expect from Southgate who is very much a safety first manager whilst also being loyal to players that have previously done well for him 

Grealish should definitely be playing


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## BiMGuy (Jun 13, 2021)

Must be an England match today. You can tell by the negativity and complaining before the game has even been played. 🙄


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Cancelo tested positive and out of the Portugal squad


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			We may have read the same article(s). Two holding midfielders with Grealish on the bench might have me mowing my lawn rather than watching the game.
		
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Just be thankful that it's not 5 at the back with two holding midfielders.


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2021)

Surely, surely, surely Luke Shaw or Ben Chilwell will start in the left back position.
Surely, surely, surely Jack Grealish will start the game.
Surely, surely, surely Raheem Sterling will NOT be in the starting eleven.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			Surely, surely, surely Luke Shaw or Ben Chilwell will start in the left back position.
Surely, surely, surely Jack Grealish will start the game.
*Surely, surely, surely Raheem Sterling will NOT be in the starting eleven.*

Click to expand...

He's either been turning it on in training and looking superb or he's got compromising photos of Southgate because his recent performances definitely don't deserve a starting place.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			We may have read the same article(s). Two holding midfielders with Grealish on the bench might have me mowing my lawn rather than watching the game.
		
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Brazil must be in Europe now and playing us to line up like that.
We need to attack teams that’s where our talent is atm.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			We may have read the same article(s). Two holding midfielders with Grealish on the bench might have me mowing my lawn rather than watching the game.
		
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Is he carrying an injury.?
That’s the only reason he should not be playing


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

England XI: Pickford, Walker, Stones, Mings, Trippier, Rice, Phillips, Mount, Foden, Sterling, Kane

No Sancho or Chilwell in the squad it seems


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			Surely, surely, surely Luke Shaw or Ben Chilwell will start in the left back position.
Surely, surely, surely Jack Grealish will start the game.
Surely, surely, surely Raheem Sterling will NOT be in the starting eleven.
		
Click to expand...

Bugger.
Bugger.
Bugger.


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## MGFore (Jun 13, 2021)

What concerns me most about that line up is T-Rex in goal.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			England XI: Pickford, Walker, Stones, Mings, Trippier, Rice, Phillips, Mount, Foden, Sterling, Kane

No Sancho or Chilwell in the squad it seems
		
Click to expand...

Trippier not Childwell that’s a suprize.
Sterling is a joke given his form.
Will be interesting to hear his plan later.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 13, 2021)

Would've preferred Shaw/Chillwell for Trippier and Grealish for Sterling.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 13, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Not sure where he heard it but a fella in the pub last night was saying Southgate is going to start Rashford and Sterling along with Kane, utter madness if it's true, you have one of the best up and coming attacking midfielders in the world in Foden and he's on the bench, and instead he starts two players woefully short of any sort of form and neither could lace Fodens boots.
I really hope the bloke was wrong. 
What is it with England managers, they always seem to go with the tried and tested, but always failing, rather than something fresh and exciting.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on 
Which pub?
Wasn’t LP local was it


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

MGFore said:



			What concerns me most about that line up is T-Rex in goal.
		
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Think Mings is the real weak link.
Maybe Trippier is to cover the lack of pace in the middle  like Walker on the right.
But he plays with Stones so that’s understandable.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Spot on
Which pub?
Wasn’t LP local was it
		
Click to expand...

8/10 he got Rashford wrong.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Trippier not Childwell that’s a suprize.
Sterling is a joke given his form.
Will be interesting to hear his plan later.
		
Click to expand...

Just an absolute baffling selection 
2 of the best left backs around and he plays a right back.
God I despise Southgate he’s just got no balls whatsoever.
We might win but it won’t be because of the manager.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 13, 2021)

Not a bad starting lineup.

All I would swap is White for Mings (who should be sat on a beach now, not in the England squad) and Grealish for Sterling.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Just an absolute baffling selection 
2 of the best left backs around and he plays a right back.
God I despise Southgate he’s just got no balls whatsoever.
We might win but it won’t be because of the manager.
		
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No balls. Yet has picked players most wouldn't. 🤷‍♂️


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## pokerjoke (Jun 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is lots of social media talk that it’s going to be a back 5 plus 2 sitting 

Pickford 

James 
Walker 
Stones 
Shaw
Trippier

Rice
Phillips/Henderson

Sterling
Kane
Rashford
		
Click to expand...

You need to get off social media and stop believing everything you read.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			No balls. Yet has picked players most wouldn't. 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

True lol 
If it goes tits up he’s going to need steel ones


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Have they got a wizard right winger who cuts in a lot?
That’s the only reason I can see for Trippier playing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

Ok who had 4 mins for the first mention of “it’s coming home”
🤦‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You need to get off social media and stop believing everything you read.
		
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Yes just come on here we make our own crap up.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You need to get off social media and stop believing everything you read.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, he should listen to me instead......




ColchesterFC said:



			I've just been reading an article that had this as the starting line up.......

GK: Jordan Pickford

RB: Kyle Walker

CB: John Stones

CB: Tyrone Mings

LB: Kieran Trippier

CDM: Declan Rice

CDM: Kalvin Phillips

CAM: Mason Mount

LW: Raheem Sterling

RW: Phil Foden

ST: Harry Kane 

Seems to be lots of different opinions on what Southgate's going to do.
		
Click to expand...


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## Rlburnside (Jun 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would've preferred Shaw/Chillwell for Trippier and Grealish for Sterling.
		
Click to expand...

I agree Sterlings poor form this season doesn’t warrant a start and to leave out Grealish one of the few really creative players we have is maddening. 

I would like to know Southgate’s reasoning for playing a right back at left back, one of Trippiers strength is his crosses which you won’t get the benefit playing on the left. 

To cautious a approach for me can see a more positive approach later in the game when it’s to late.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

as an arsenal fan the square pegs in round holes approach is one i recognise well  especially at left back lol


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 13, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			I agree Sterlings poor form this season doesn’t warrant a start and to leave out Grealish one of the few really creative players we have is maddening.

I would like to know Southgate’s reasoning for playing a right back at left back, one of Trippiers strength is his crosses which you won’t get the benefit playing on the left.

To cautious a approach for me can see a more positive approach later in the game when it’s to late.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I'm predicting Grealish and Rashford on for Sterling and Mount between 60 and 70 minutes.


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## Kellfire (Jun 13, 2021)

Sancho not even in the squad. Southgate is a very strange manager at times.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've just been reading an article that had this as the starting line up.......

GK: Jordan Pickford

RB: Kyle Walker

CB: John Stones

CB: Tyrone Mings

LB: Kieran Trippier

CDM: Declan Rice

CDM: Kalvin Phillips

CAM: Mason Mount

LW: Raheem Sterling

RW: Phil Foden

ST: Harry Kane 

Seems to be lots of different opinions on what Southgate's going to do.
		
Click to expand...

😂

Hope you put a bit of money on it 👏


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## Piece (Jun 13, 2021)

Sterling is playing as he can get behind the back line. Not recently though!

Croatia should be delighted that Grealish isn't starting. He is a ball carrier and that's what we need.

Trippier at right back. Interesting. To counter his team mate at Atletico?


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## MGFore (Jun 13, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Sancho not even in the squad. Southgate is a very strange manager at times.
		
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Aye

Although we should trust him more considering he's done a decent job so far.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 13, 2021)

Fancy Sterling to have a good tournament funnily 
Pace to burn and pretty good in an England shirt.
I suspect his much published fallout with Pep effected his form for City so I’m expecting a different Sterling in this tournament.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

So he was never actually trying to pick 4 right backs at all, just 3 right backs and 3 left backs  Now it makes so much more sense


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## Captainron (Jun 13, 2021)

Rice and Phillips will have to work like hell and help the central defenders out.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Nailed on for Sterling or Trippier to be MOM.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

Classy England fans as ever - booing the Croatian National Anthem then booing the players taking the knee - good work to the fans clapping over the second loads of boos


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## Captainron (Jun 13, 2021)

Shoot Sterling. You muppet


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## RichA (Jun 13, 2021)

A question for you fantasy football people - when Stones or Pickford inevitably set up the opposition striker for a goal, do they get points for the assist?


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 13, 2021)

Not sure if the refs had had an instruction but they don't seem to be giving the soft free kicks for players throwing themselves down with very little contact. Noticed it in the match with the Dutch referee as well - can't remember which match that was though.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not sure if the refs had had an instruction but they don't seem to be giving the soft free kicks for players throwing themselves down with very little contact. Noticed it in the match with the Dutch referee as well - can't remember which match that was though.
		
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seems to be a clear direction so far, trying to keep play going, not giving soft free kicks/pens, very few yellow cards (and a couple of the games been reffed by very card happy refs)


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

not good signs when Mings and Phillips have been our best 2 players so far


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## Captainron (Jun 13, 2021)

Walker is horrid so far


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Walker is horrid so far
		
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you  misspelt Sterling


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 13, 2021)

Just realised that Sancho has been left out of the match day squad but there are two keepers named on the bench. Is he injured? Otherwise it seems a very strange decision.


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## Kellfire (Jun 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just realised that Sancho has been left out of the match day squad but there are two keepers named on the bench. Is he injured? Otherwise it seems a very strange decision.
		
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You have to name two keepers on the bench. It’s a rule. But yea, dropping Sancho is moronic.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just realised that Sancho has been left out of the match day squad but there are two keepers named on the bench. Is he injured? Otherwise it seems a very strange decision.
		
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UEFA rule you have to have 2 keepers on the bench on all accounts, no idea why!!!!

no Sancho or Chilwell (or injured Maguire obv)


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 13, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You have to name two keepers on the bench. It’s a rule. But yea, dropping Sancho is moronic.
		
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That's a strange rule. Surely it should be up to the manager. If he wants to name no sub keepers then that should be his choice.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a strange rule. Surely it should be up to the manager. If he wants to name no sub keepers then that should be his choice.
		
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its a quirk from the 22 man squad increased to 25 on all accounts, so you have a matchday 22 man squad which had to have 3 keepers in it (as an original 22 squad did). why they dont just allow all squad as subs i dont understand


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## Captainron (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			you  misspelt Sterling 

Click to expand...

Sterling is getting into good positions and causing panic but he still can’t hit a cows backside with a banjo. It’s hos most frustrating trait


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## Kellfire (Jun 13, 2021)

The pundits must be on crack if they think England were good there.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Sterling is getting into good positions and causing panic but he still can’t hit a cows backside with a banjo. It’s hos most frustrating trait
		
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so his normal self then! get Grealish on (and shaw too, switch trippier across for walker)


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Good opening but very even now.
We needed to score when on top.
Mount brilliant ,but to much down the left we need to switch it about a bit.
Kane non existent playing deep and not in the box enough.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			so his normal self then! get Grealish on (and shaw too, switch trippier across for walker) 

Click to expand...

Yes Grealish will roast this fullback.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Sterling is getting into good positions and causing panic but he still can’t hit a cows backside with a banjo. It’s hos most frustrating trait
		
Click to expand...

I agree. He can be bloody useless all round but I think he's done ok today so far. He seems an easy target for criticism for me but there are plenty out there playing worse - Walker for one! Kane too although service been poor in his defence. Rice is ok but everything slows or stops when he's in possession.

Come on England!!


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## Piece (Jun 13, 2021)

This game is tailor made for Grealish midway through second half


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Scary, but encouraging news too!

Denmark team doctor Morten Boesen says Christian Eriksen suffered cardiac arrest and that ”he was gone” before he was resuscitated.

Boesen led the work in giving Eriksen CPR after he collapsed during Denmark’s European Championship game against Finland on Saturday. Boesen says ”we got him back after one defib. That’s quite fast.”

Eriksen is in stable condition in a Copenhagen hospital.

Denmark coach Kasper Hjulmand says he spoken to Eriksen via video link and says it was ”good to see him smile.”

Hjulmand says Eriksen was more concerned about his teammates’ well being and asked how they were doing.

Hjulmand says ”that’s typical Christian.”


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I agree. He can be bloody useless all round but I think he's done ok today so far. He seems an easy target for criticism for me but there are plenty out there playing worse - Walker for one! Kane too although service been poor in his defence. Rice is ok but everything slows or stops when he's in possession.

Come on England!!
		
Click to expand...


easy target when he wastes so many promising positions, England dont get as many as City do


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I agree. He can be bloody useless all round but I think he's done ok today so far. He seems an easy target for criticism for me but there are plenty out there playing worse - Walker for one! Kane too although service been poor in his defence. Rice is ok but everything slows or stops when he's in possession.

Come on England!!
		
Click to expand...

The service will be poor when Kane spends most of his time dropping deep - a number of times you could see there would be a chance to put the ball into the box yet Kane was sitting back outside the box 🤷‍♂️ - Walkers delivery doesn’t help and Trippier just won’t provide any width 

It’s narrow and slow - will be a solid draw. No idea why he didn’t put Sancho on the bench - someone who would provide some width


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Walker is horrid so far
		
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Perhaps Trippier should have started there with a left back playing at left back 🙄.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Its coming home


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## Captainron (Jun 13, 2021)

Kane is a donkey and maybe injured now too


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			Its coming home 

Click to expand...


cancel that, Kanes injured lol


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			you  misspelt Sterling 

Click to expand...

🤔😉


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## AmandaJR (Jun 13, 2021)

Kane's embarrassed not hurt!


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Sterling is getting into good positions and causing panic but he still can’t hit a cows backside with a banjo. It’s hos most frustrating trait
		
Click to expand...

😳😉
although he has been pants 😂


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## AmandaJR (Jun 13, 2021)

Rashford's got the wrong kit on


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Modric still got it hasnt he  a joy to watch on the ball


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## Rlburnside (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Kane is a donkey and maybe injured now too
		
Click to expand...

Not the first time you’ve called Kane a donkey you maybe should stick to burning your sausages 😂


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## BiMGuy (Jun 13, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Not the first time you’ve called Kane a donkey you maybe should stick to burning your sausages 😂
		
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He's been England's worst player today by a loooooooong way.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 13, 2021)

Oh Sterling you can be such a muppet!


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## Captainron (Jun 13, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Not the first time you’ve called Kane a donkey you maybe should stick to burning your sausages 😂
		
Click to expand...

He’s been a non factor again. He’s not as good as as everyone makes out. I did choose him as golden boot as I’m sure he will score a couple of pens and have a few on a plate that even Sterling could score


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			He's been England's worst player today by a loooooooong way.
		
Click to expand...

14 mins left for us to have that discussion 😁


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

Rashford has been largely awful playing on the left at United since Christmas. On the occasions he has been pushed out to the right he has been even worse. So where does Southgate use him when he comes on?

If England hang on to win here it will be despite Southgate, not because of him. A truly top class side would be out of sight by now against a very average Croatia.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Rashford has been largely awful playing on the left at United since Christmas. On the occasions he has been pushed out to the right he has been even worse. So where does Southgate use him when he comes on?

If England hang on to win here it will be despite Southgate, not because of him. A truly top class side would be out of sight by now against a very average Croatia.
		
Click to expand...

This in buckets 👍


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Oh Sterling you can be such a muppet!
		
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ah its ok for city fans to criticise him


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

surely at 1-0 grealish is the option to hold onto the ball here?


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## pokerjoke (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Sterling is getting into good positions and causing panic but he still can’t hit a cows backside with a banjo. It’s hos most frustrating trait
		
Click to expand...

Apparently he can


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## Captainron (Jun 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Apparently he can 

Click to expand...

He shouldn’t miss from there. His over all shooting is not great though.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He’s been a non factor again. He’s not as good as as everyone makes out. I did choose him as golden boot as I’m sure he will score a couple of pens and have a few on a plate that even Sterling could score
		
Click to expand...

Your right he’s hardly been in the game today but he is as good as everyone makes out you only have to look at his goal scoring record, you’re on a wind up or don’t know much about football


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## BiMGuy (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Rashford has been largely awful playing on the left at United since Christmas. On the occasions he has been pushed out to the right he has been even worse. So where does Southgate use him when he comes on?

If England hang on to win here it will be despite Southgate, not because of him. A truly top class side would be out of sight by now against a very average Croatia.
		
Click to expand...

We aren't hanging by any stretch.

I do wondered why some people bother watching these games.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He shouldn’t miss from there. His over all shooting is not great though.
		
Click to expand...

the goal he shot straight down the middle from 8 yards, clinical he is not! results orientated will ensure hes been great today though


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## BiMGuy (Jun 13, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			or don’t know much about football
		
Click to expand...

This applies to a lot of people. 
I do think many people in this country's tactical knowledge of football stops at 4-4-2, lump it up to the forwards, and shouting get rid.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

Has Sterling been giving Pickford kicking lessons 😳


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## Captainron (Jun 13, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Your right he’s hardly been in the game today but he is as good as everyone makes out you only have to look at his goal scoring record, you’re on a wind up or don’t know much about football
		
Click to expand...

He’s slow. Hence why I call him a donkey. That’s all. His goal scoring record is good but he’s still a donkey


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			ah its ok for city fans to criticise him 

Click to expand...

That started last august 😁


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He’s slow. Hence why I call him a donkey. That’s all. His goal scoring record is good but he’s still a donkey
		
Click to expand...

If we’re on about Kane, I don’t understand why he drops for the ball and then tries to protect it. His bambi ankles will get the treatment doing that.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If we’re on about Kane, I don’t understand why he drops for the ball and then tries to protect it. His bambi ankles will get the treatment doing that.
		
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hes not your player yet, stop worrying


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Rashford has been largely awful playing on the left at United since Christmas. On the occasions he has been pushed out to the right he has been even worse. So where does Southgate use him when he comes on?

If England hang on to win here it will be despite Southgate, not because of him. A truly top class side would be out of sight by now against a very average Croatia.
		
Click to expand...

RashFord is bang average for me.
But he gets a pass because of the good charity work he does IMO.


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			We aren't hanging by any stretch.

I do wondered why some people bother watching these games.
		
Click to expand...

I watch because, with wealth of talent at Southgate’s disposal, we should be strolling this and providing the watching public with some entertainment into the bargain. But I’m afraid Southgate just doesn’t seem to make the best of what he has available to him.

I agree we’re not hanging on for grim death, but this has been largely uninspiring stuff against a Croatia side largely past its sell by date.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He shouldn’t miss from there. His over all shooting is not great though.
		
Click to expand...

That maybe true but he could have got the winner,so will take that.
He offers so much more and will always be in Gareth’s starting 11 against the best teams


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			RashFord is bang average for me.
But he gets a pass because of the good charity work he does IMO.
		
Click to expand...

As a United regular I’ll tell you he’s lucky to be in this squad. Massively overrated, regardless of what the statisticians tell you.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			the goal he shot straight down the middle from 8 yards, clinical he is not! results orientated will ensure hes been great today though
		
Click to expand...

Great run though - come on some credit when it's due...


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

For anyone who wants to feel old, Jude Bellingham was born the week the first Pirates of the Caribbean film came out


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## Rlburnside (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He’s slow. Hence why I call him a donkey. That’s all. His goal scoring record is good but he’s still a donkey[/QUOTE 

Pele, Greaves, Muller etc, donkeys,  he’s in good company then.
		
Click to expand...


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Great run though - come on some credit when it's due...
		
Click to expand...


for sure, was a great run and the first time someone went past Kane properly from midfield into the gap just so frustrating how many opportunities he does burn for me (i guess not everyone can be Henry like in those situs  )


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			hes not your player yet, stop worrying 

Click to expand...

Trust me, watching that am worrying.

That aside, Phillips for MoM for me. Thought stones and Mings looked well together.

But no Luke Shaw 😳


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## RichA (Jun 13, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Your right he’s hardly been in the game today but he is as good as everyone makes out you only have to look at his goal scoring record, you’re on a wind up or don’t know much about football
		
Click to expand...

His penalty winning record is more impressive. Spends half his life lying on the grass looking pleadingly at the ref.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Trust me, watching that am worrying.

That aside, Phillips for MoM for me. Thought stones and Mings looked well together.

But no Luke Shaw 😳
		
Click to expand...


agree Philips was excellent, Mount was too. One of Mings best England games for me, do worry the accident isnt far away still though!  really dont like the full back choices


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## AmandaJR (Jun 13, 2021)

Kane strikes me that after a club season he's a shell of a player...looks slow and laboured and nothing like!


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## BiMGuy (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I watch because, with wealth of talent at Southgate’s disposal, we should be strolling this and providing the watching public with some entertainment into the bargain. But I’m afraid Southgate just doesn’t seem to make the best of what he has available to him.

I agree we’re not hanging on for grim death, but this has been largely uninspiring stuff against a Croatia side largely past its sell by date.
		
Click to expand...

We strolled through that game. At no point was there any danger. 
It's 30* in the stadium. Why waste energy just to 'entertain'.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			agree Philips was excellent, Mount was too. One of Mings best England games for me, do worry the accident isnt far away still though!  really dont like the full back choices
		
Click to expand...

The three you mention were Englands better performers. I agree with Billy boots. Southgate has a wealth of energetic talent that is not being utilised.
Gary Linekar, “let’s speak to our goal scoring hero” 😖


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Kane strikes me that after a club season he's a shell of a player...looks slow and laboured and nothing like!
		
Click to expand...


trying to convince that nice Mr Levy to lower his asking price


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## Piece (Jun 13, 2021)

Loving the experts on this forum. 😂

We were good today against a solid Croatia side who offered pretty much nothing. Modric was an also-ran today.

Keep positive and realistic 😉


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## chrisd (Jun 13, 2021)

Phillips and Mings were men of the match for me!


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			We strolled through that game. At no point was there any danger. 
It's 30* in the stadium. Why waste energy just to 'entertain'.
		
Click to expand...

We could, and should, have put down a marker for the rest of the tournament. I just feel against quality opposition we will come up some way short.

If I was France, Portugal or Germany, one of whom will be next for us if we get out of the group by winning it, I’m not going to be having sleepless nights.


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## IanM (Jun 13, 2021)

Solid. Effective. Comfortable. Efficient.   Sweltering inside Wembley today. 

The Press will call it poor.   Nuts to them.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Piece said:



			Loving the experts on this forum. 😂

We were good today against a solid Croatia side who offered pretty much nothing. Modric was an also-ran today.

Keep positive and realistic 😉
		
Click to expand...


We watched a different modric  more passes than anyone, more key passes than anyone, barely gave the ball away all game, all in a side who were clearly second best


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## IanM (Jun 13, 2021)

Modric is a genius.   Still got it. 

And the usual "we should be winning all games 5 nil" brigade don't take long to appear, do they?


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## BiMGuy (Jun 13, 2021)

Piece said:



			Loving the experts on this forum. 😂

We were good today against a solid Croatia side who offered pretty much nothing. Modric was an also-ran today.

Keep positive and realistic 😉
		
Click to expand...

I've not seen another team in this tournament control a game like England just did.

Yes there are other teams to play. But that was a masterclass in managing a game and saving energy. We made the World Cup finalists and some of the best players in Europe look bang average.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I've not seen another team in this tournament control a game like England just did.

Yes there are other teams to play. But that was a masterclass in managing a game and saving energy. We made the World Cup finalists and some of the best players in Europe look bang average.
		
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did you watch the italy game?


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## Piece (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			We watched a different modric  more passes than anyone, more key passes than anyone, barely gave the ball away all game, all in a side who were clearly second best
		
Click to expand...

He ran the show in the 2018 semi; here he looked nice but nothing was incisive nor dangerous.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			did you watch the italy game?
		
Click to expand...

Yes. They played Turkey. Hardly the same standard as Croatia.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 13, 2021)

RichA said:



			His penalty winning record is more impressive. Spends half his life lying on the grass looking pleadingly at the ref.
		
Click to expand...

That’s modern day football though all the forward players do that, makes me laugh on here you can slag off a player of a certain team for diving/ cheating and you can guarantee your team will have a player that does the same.


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## Piece (Jun 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



*I've not seen another team in this tournament control a game like England just did.*

Yes there are other teams to play. But that was a masterclass in managing a game and saving energy. We made the World Cup finalists and some of the best players in Europe look bang average.
		
Click to expand...

Italy were quite good . Belgium did ok . But I do agree with you.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Great run though - come on some credit when it's due...
		
Click to expand...

The ball was great into him but the run was superb and made it easier to take the ball in his stride , was a scrappy finish but it’s maybe what he needs to get him confident again 

They certainly overall need to play a lot lot better than that to get past the likes of France - the lack of width isn’t great and Kane is a superb goalscorer - he needs to be the focal point higher to get them going forward , many times he was dropping into areas that Mount works in , all the talent is there for England - just needs to be applied correctly 


And does Ferdinand get worse as a pundit each game


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## Piece (Jun 13, 2021)

Harry Kane is a donkey? . Heskey, Carroll.....................


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

Piece said:



			Harry Kane is a donkey? . Heskey, Carroll.....................
		
Click to expand...

Andy Carroll wasn’t a donkey. He was a cart horse. 😎


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## Kellfire (Jun 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Yes. They played Turkey. Hardly the same standard as Croatia.
		
Click to expand...

I think you either underestimate Turkey or overestimate Croatia. Very little it in.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I've not seen another team in this tournament control a game like England just did.

Yes there are other teams to play. But that was a masterclass in managing a game and saving energy. We made the World Cup finalists and some of the best players in Europe look bang average.
		
Click to expand...

That’s only the 4/5th game so far - don’t think throwing words like “masterclass” around will do any favours

Italy were impressive against a very young highly rated Turkey team and Belguim cruised missing their best player 
They got the win , they did well in parts but when your best players are the CB and Defensive Mids it’s showing much

Yes they were in the World Cup final but that was three years ago - in their last 13 games they have only won 4 - been on a very poor run


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## pauljames87 (Jun 13, 2021)

We play so much better without Liverpool players in the team 😜🤣

Great game 

Need to take our chances 

Would like to see grealish in the next one 

Well played


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## JustOne (Jun 13, 2021)

Yesterday I saw a dead man come back to life

Today England won an opening game

Helluva 24hrs.


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## toyboy54 (Jun 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I've not seen another team in this tournament control a game like England just did.

Yes there are other teams to play. But that was a masterclass in managing a game and saving energy. We made the World Cup finalists and some of the best players in Europe look bang average.
		
Click to expand...

Are you absolutely certain you watched the Italy game??
Have to say though that expected more from Croatia ( a lot more! ). But, fair play to 'Engerlund' they did what they had to do and looked comfortable doing it
Now all the hype and bollocks kicks in


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## pokerjoke (Jun 13, 2021)

toyboy54 said:



			Are you absolutely certain you watched the Italy game??
Have to say though that expected more from Croatia ( a lot more! ). But, fair play to 'Engerlund' they did what they had to do and looked comfortable doing it
Now all the hype and bollocks kicks 

in

Click to expand...

No swearing in the football thread please


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			We play so much better without Liverpool players in the team 😜🤣

Great game

Need to take our chances

Would like to see grealish in the next one

Well played
		
Click to expand...

especially if we get a pen.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The ball was great into him but the run was superb and made it easier to take the ball in his stride , was a scrappy finish but it’s maybe what he needs to get him confident again 

They certainly overall need to play a lot lot better than that to get past the likes of France - the lack of width isn’t great and Kane is a superb goalscorer - he needs to be the focal point higher to get them going forward , many times he was dropping into areas that Mount works in , all the talent is there for England - just needs to be applied correctly 


And does Ferdinand get worse as a pundit each game
		
Click to expand...

Yesterday it was Anthony Taylor today it’s Rio Ferdinand.
Is there anyone you won’t slag off


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## RichA (Jun 13, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			That’s modern day football though all the forward players do that, makes me laugh on here you can slag off a player of a certain team for diving/ cheating and you can guarantee your team will have a player that does the same.
		
Click to expand...

Don't like it when any of them do it. When I'm watching England, he is the captain of my team. I cringed when Mount "won" that free kick on the edge of the area too.
Just giving my opinion that Kane was always better when he used his energy looking for goals rather than falling over and getting up off the grass.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

We played well and can only beat who is in front of you.
I was also disappointed in Croatia especially the forwards they caused us very little trouble.
Sterling scores goal where he dosnt have time to think, if you give him time he makes a mess of it but I thought he played well today.
Phillips MOM for me but A mention for Mount .
Kane is to deep and he’s out of the game by not being in the box. That might work at Spurs but didn’t today.
A great start let’s just hope we carry on winning.

Modric is a joy to watch but sadly hasn’t got the quality around him anymore.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Andy Carroll wasn’t a donkey. He was a cart horse. 😎
		
Click to expand...

IS a cart horse?
I belive he still puts a shirt on now and again.


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			IS a cart horse?
I belive he still puts a shirt on now and again.

Click to expand...

No. He’s now a donkey 😂


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			No. He’s now a donkey 😂
		
Click to expand...

I think you will find a Donkey in black and white stripes is a Zebra!


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## pauljames87 (Jun 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Yesterday it was Anthony Taylor today it’s Rio Ferdinand.
Is there anyone you won’t slag off
		
Click to expand...

Jordan Henderson


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			As a United regular I’ll tell you he’s lucky to be in this squad. Massively overrated, regardless of what the statisticians tell you.
		
Click to expand...

He seems to be lacking any sort of confidence right now and also not sure if he has any injury issues but there no doubt he is still imo a quality player to come of the bench and provide pace to run at defenders. Happy to take him at Liverpool if UTD want rid


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2021)

Well I enjoyed it.
I thought England did very well despite picking the wrong team ............................ according to Slime!
But he proved me wrong.
Croatia looked poor, largely because they were made to look so.
England's pressing was excellent, given the heat they were playing in.
Trippier did nothing wrong and Sterling did well despite a woeful start.
I'd still strat a left back at left back and, probably, switch Trippier to right back.
I'd also definitely start DCL in place of Kane, England's poorest player today.
I'd also still put Grealish in and have Sterling on the bench.
Kalvin Phillips was superb today, deffo MOM in my eyes.
A 1-0 win and positive news about Erikson has put a little spring in Slime's step.


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He seems to be lacking any sort of confidence right now and also not sure if he has any injury issues but there no doubt he is still imo a quality player to come of the bench and provide pace to run at defenders. *Happy to take him at Liverpool if UTD want rid*

Click to expand...

Hands off, he's going nowhere.


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## Billysboots (Jun 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He seems to be lacking any sort of confidence right now and also not sure if he has any injury issues but there no doubt he is still imo a quality player to come of the bench and provide pace to run at defenders. Happy to take him at Liverpool if UTD want rid
		
Click to expand...

Make us a bid!

His decision making is appalling, and I’m not sure that’s down to confidence, less so an injury. Time and again he opts to try and run straight through defenders as though they’re not there, losing possession and ending up on his backside - he does it so often it’s unbelievable.

And don’t even get me started on his finishing. He’ll miss more straightforward 1v1’s than he’ll put away. I’ve said it now for a couple of seasons - Martial is a far better finisher, but has an appalling attitude.

Rashford is nowhere near world class. Not even close. And if any club was bonkers enough to offer the sums of money some suggest he’s worth, I’d bite their arm off.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2021)

Just in from the course, seen the result, great start to the tournament for us, happy days.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


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## Captainron (Jun 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Yesterday it was Anthony Taylor today it’s Rio Ferdinand.
Is there anyone you won’t slag off
		
Click to expand...

He never slags you off? He thinks you’re a great guy.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He never slags you off? He thinks you’re a great guy.
		
Click to expand...


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He seems to be lacking any sort of confidence right now and also not sure if he has any injury issues but there no doubt he is still imo a quality player to come of the bench and provide pace to run at defenders. Happy to take him at Liverpool if UTD want rid
		
Click to expand...

Imagine if a Liverpool player did that charity work 🤯😂


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## MGFore (Jun 13, 2021)

Well if someone had said we start the tournament with a 1-0 win I would have been happy.

Kalvin Philips, wow.  I can see why Leeds had a dip when he was out of the side with injury and his Nan passing away.  Solid game.

Walker was the one that made me nervous, but in reality he was never fully tested defensive wise.

I would have liked to have seen more from Kane and Foden.  I.e get them on the ball more.  But hey, a win, 3 points and something to build on.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 13, 2021)

Piece said:



			Italy were quite good . Belgium did ok . But I do agree with you. 

Click to expand...

I did not see the game, busy in the garden.
Just seen the stats and they have it as a dead level game apart from the goal.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Not sure I got the hype with Depay, might be changing my mind after the first half hour tonight!


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

Sat down and thought about it and got to say we were rammel. A right back at left back 😳
2 defensive midfielders.
Nope it felt like we were in 2nd gear with the handbrake on


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## Golfmmad (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			We watched a different modric  more passes than anyone, more key passes than anyone, barely gave the ball away all game, all in a side who were clearly second best
		
Click to expand...

Do you mean more passes on the Croatia side?  Because Phillips had the most passes and interventions than anybody else.
Moddric was very average today, just a few decent passes because of England's pressing and energy. 

Well played England today, and there's plenty more to come, its just the opening game in the group and we have a Squad of players to choose from.

Oh, and Rio Ferdinand
 is a great pundit!


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## Piece (Jun 13, 2021)

This is a tasty 30 mins Ned v Ukr


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 13, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I did not see the game, busy in the garden.
Just seen the stats and they have it as a dead level game apart from the goal.
		
Click to expand...

It was. England started well for the first 20 minutes and then Croatia came back in to it. The second half was pretty even. But apart from the goal neither team really created a lot of good chances.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			Do you mean more passes on the Croatia side?  Because Phillips had the most passes and interventions than anybody else.
Moddric was very average today, just a few decent passes because of England's pressing and energy. 

Well played England today, and there's plenty more to come, its just the opening game in the group and we have a Squad of players to choose from.

Oh, and Rio Ferdinando is a great pundit!
		
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no i didnt, site i looked at he had more touches than anyone else earlier, seems actually trippier had more now. but philips didnt, not even close

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...al-European-Championship-2020-England-Croatia

I know not all stats are the same, which site are you looking at?


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## IanM (Jun 13, 2021)

Be interesting to see how the rubbish old Croatia do in their other games


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## Captainron (Jun 13, 2021)

I am liking the refereeing in the tournament so far.


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## IainP (Jun 13, 2021)

Lot of pre tourney chat about vulnerable and fragile defence. Clean sheet and a win against the bookies toughest group game - my glass is half full 👍

Obviously more games to come & hopefully tougher (predicted) challenges. Happy to reflect on those as & when...


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			I am liking the refereeing in the tournament so far.
		
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Think that’s why Grealish wasn’t playing he will get nothing off these refs.
He might be a better player if he stays on his feet more.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

IainP said:



			Lot of pre tourney chat about vulnerable and fragile defence. Clean sheet and a win against the bookies toughest group game - my glass is half full 👍

Obviously more games to come & hopefully tougher (predicted) challenges. Happy to reflect on those as & when...
		
Click to expand...

If they don’t concede at all will Southgate change the defensive partnership?
When all are fit!


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If they don’t concede at all will Southgate change the defensive partnership?
When all are fit!
		
Click to expand...


yes imo, will bring maguire in as soon as he is fully fit


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			no i didnt, site i looked at he had more touches than anyone else earlier, seems actually trippier had more now. but philips didnt, not even close

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...al-European-Championship-2020-England-Croatia

I know not all stats are the same, which site are you looking at?
		
Click to expand...


modric almost double philips on Uefas site too

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/statistics/players/distribution/


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			It was. England started well for the first 20 minutes and then Croatia came back in to it. The second half was pretty even. But apart from the goal neither team really created a lot of good chances.
		
Click to expand...

Apart from hitting the post 👍 yup bang average.
Hopefully Doon is not busy in the garden on Friday 😁👍


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## Golfmmad (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			no i didnt, site i looked at he had more touches than anyone else earlier, seems actually trippier had more now. but philips didnt, not even close

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...al-European-Championship-2020-England-Croatia

I know not all stats are the same, which site are you looking at?
		
Click to expand...

None, I watched the game. I don't believe those stats and from what I saw Phillips had much more influence on the game than Modric. He may have had more tippy tappy passes but none that I really noticed. 👍


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			yes imo, will bring maguire in as soon as he is fully fit
		
Click to expand...

Am sure he will, but if Stones and Mings keep another clean sheet on Friday am asking myself why would he bring in Maguire. Not just that who would he drop. The money would be on Mings, but at the moment he and Stones have done nowt wrong.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			None, I watched the game. I don't believe those stats and from what I saw Phillips had much more influence on the game than Modric. He may have had more tippy tappy passes but none that I really noticed. 👍
		
Click to expand...

so youre claiming the stats are wrong and your subjective view is more accurate than someone whos actually being paid to count these things by watching the video, pausing and registering every action in the game, ok


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## BiMGuy (Jun 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am sure he will, but if Stones and Mings keep another clean sheet on Friday am asking myself why would he bring in Maguire. Not just that who would he drop. The money would be on Mings, but at the moment he and Stones have done nowt wrong.
		
Click to expand...

I've been critical of Mings, but he was excellent today. And even though I'm not a fan, I'd prefer him to Maguire.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2021)

This has been one of the best game so far - really open and some great attacking play , Holland look very tidy 

Also great to hear a commentator who just seems to love to watch the game and always seems positive about the players - Ally McCoist


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This has been one of the best game so far - really open and some great attacking play , Holland look very tidy 

Also great to hear a commentator who just seems to love to watch the game and always seems positive about the players - Ally McCoist
		
Click to expand...


this Wynaldum lad looks a player, sort of kid Liverpool could do with


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			None, I watched the game. I don't believe those stats and from what I saw Phillips had much more influence on the game than Modric. He may have had more tippy tappy passes but none that I really noticed. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Yes a lot of Modric passes were in front of the two HM never really hurt us .
He got deeper and deeper as the game went on.
Still good player to watch makes it look easy.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I've been critical of Mings, but he was excellent today. And even though I'm not a fan, I'd prefer him to Maguire.
		
Click to expand...

Yes me to but he will be tested a bit more as things go on.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			this Wynaldum lad looks a player, sort of kid Liverpool could do with 

Click to expand...

Always does when he wears Orange.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 37046

Click to expand...

That video is getting used quite a bit.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			modric almost double philips on Uefas site too

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/statistics/players/distribution/

Click to expand...

Is that the one that gave “ star of the game to Sterling”?


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## Golfmmad (Jun 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			so youre claiming the stats are wrong and your subjective view is more accurate than someone whos actually being paid to count these things by watching the video, pausing and registering every action in the game, ok 

Click to expand...

Statistics, those damn statistics!
As I said, he may have had more tippy tappy touches but didn't have nearly as much influence on the game as Phillips did.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is that the one that gave “ star of the game to Sterling”?
		
Click to expand...


sky gave him MOTM too, theyre subjective opinions (that i dont agree with lol)

number of passes etc really arent, the same poor sod gets paid pennies to watch the game pause it etc and log every action, game after game


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			Statistics, those damn statistics!
As I said, he may have had more tippy tappy touches but didn't have nearly as much influence on the game as Phillips did.
		
Click to expand...


I kinda agree with that, its also not what you said though


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2021)

Well, Ukraine are intent on spoiling the party.
Great 2nd half.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			Well, Ukraine are intent on spoiling the party.
Great 2nd half.
		
Click to expand...


cracking game, by far the best of the tournament so far


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2021)

cue Doon coming on to claim credit for the goalscorer


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## Piece (Jun 13, 2021)

Very tidy game. ✅👏

Holland nice going forward, not great defensively though. Ukraine technically sound, just not organised enough at the back.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			cue Doon coming on to claim credit for the goalscorer 

Click to expand...

You will have to explain that one to me


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 14, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You will have to explain that one to me 

Click to expand...

Scorer of the winning goal was called Dumfries. Obviously a Scotsman.


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 14, 2021)

Great start from England yesterday - but we can do better.

Foden didnt offer as much as I thought he would, needs the ball to feet more I feel to get him involved.

Mount was quiet but productive at times. 

Sterling had a solid performance, great goal and great runs in behind. 

Midfield 2 of Rice and Phillips were solid as a rock. 

Back 4 also solid, very defensive in this game - but it was the hardest in the group on paper! Pickford had a quiet day but avoided the classic England keeper blunder in game 1!

Kane is Kane.. maybe should have had 1 but took a big whack off the post trying to get that in! 

Its coming home


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## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2021)

Funny reading people's pre-match comments today. I was also questioning Sterling's start over Sancho, but hey he scored, so went some way to justifying it. I wanted to see Grealish & Foden, but at least we got one of them rather than neither. The defence was very worrying, with both CBs and keeper all having a mistake in them, and Trippier playing on the wrong side for some reason - but luckily they weren't tested much. Walker was awful as well so hopefully Shaw comes in for him next game (with Trips swapping back over).

I hadn't seen much of Phillips in the past to know what he really does, but he was our best player yesterday. With Rice sitting and him pushing on a little bit, he moved the ball around really well, got stuck in and teed up the goal with a fine pass. It was a pretty dull game but I was expecting a draw, so 3 points in the opener is all you can ask for.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 14, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Scorer of the winning goal was called Dumfries. Obviously a Scotsman. 

Click to expand...

Oh right.
Like Tony Hancock and Dr MacGregor in the blood donor. 

Claude Makélélé - Wikipedia 
Whit aboot this guy.


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## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2021)

Scotland have a decent midfield but their forwards and defenders are rubbish. I don't know why you wouldn't start Che Adams. Tierney is a big miss I imagine, from the left of that back 3.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 14, 2021)

Just no stopping coufal .. that assist .. how was he only 5 mil


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Just no stopping coufal .. that assist .. how was he only 5 mil
		
Click to expand...

Decent cross but an exceptional header.


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## fundy (Jun 14, 2021)

Thats some goal that  take a bow sir


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## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2021)

Oh well, Scotland are off home already. That didn't take long. 

Fantastic strike. Keeper in no man's land though?? It will take some beating for goal of the tournament.


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## Piece (Jun 14, 2021)

Two very tidy goals.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 14, 2021)

Oops! Stunning goal.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 14, 2021)

Its coming home


----------



## toyboy54 (Jun 14, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Oops! Stunning goal.
		
Click to expand...

Up Yours!!
Have to agree though, but we are making it so easy for them-it's now looking like men against boys
We need something to happen/inspire us!
( Can we not declare it null and void due to Covid something or other )
Think telly is going out of window at this rate


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 14, 2021)

toyboy54 said:



			Up Yours!!
Have to agree though, but we are making it so easy for them-it's now looking like men against boys
We need something to happen/inspire us!
( Can we not declare it null and void due to Covid something or other )
Think telly is going out of window at this rate
		
Click to expand...

I’m enjoying every minute. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿😬


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## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2021)

I don't know who this Dykes feller is, but he is absolutely useless. Can't believe they started this clown over Adams.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Decent cross but an exceptional header.
		
Click to expand...

An assist for both our boys apparently, missed the second was on school run 

Come on the Czechs


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## toyboy54 (Jun 14, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m enjoying every minute. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿😬
		
Click to expand...

In that case-I hope ( and pray ) that your next bowel evacuation is a very large FIR TREE


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## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			An assist for both our boys apparently, missed the second was on school run

Come on the Czechs
		
Click to expand...

Look it up, it was from near enough the half way line. Goal of the tournament.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Look it up, it was from near enough the half way line. Goal of the tournament.
		
Click to expand...

Meh, I don't overly like the catch off line from Halfway

Prefer a stunner outsider box top corner with pace like yarmenlko 😜

Quick thinking though


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 14, 2021)

Is heartening to see that Scottish goalkeepers are still maintaining the tradition of wildly flapping and grasping at thin air as the ball sails past them into the net.


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## GB72 (Jun 14, 2021)

I am going to stay very quiet about the Scotland match until after Friday night.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 14, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Is heartening to see that Scottish goalkeepers are still maintaining the tradition of wildly flapping and grasping at thin air as the ball sails past them into the net.
		
Click to expand...

That’s a bit harsh he’s had a decent game , not sure why he was in no mans land for the goal though.


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## nickjdavis (Jun 14, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I am going to stay very quiet about the Scotland match until after Friday night.
		
Click to expand...

There's a bit of me thinking that but the other half of me is telling me to "enjoy the moment".


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## Val (Jun 14, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Is heartening to see that Scottish goalkeepers are still maintaining the tradition of wildly flapping and grasping at thin air as the ball sails past them into the net.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess we can all forget easily how well Seaman did from Ronadinhos shot from halfway 🤔


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## Rlburnside (Jun 14, 2021)

Thought Mactominay would have had a bigger influence on the game he looked knackerd in the second half


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## GB72 (Jun 14, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			There's a bit of me thinking that but the other half of me is telling me to "enjoy the moment". 

Click to expand...

I am looking at it that, for the sake of a few days, I get either double the fun or save eating a large portion of humble pie.


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## Piece (Jun 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know who this Dykes feller is, but he is absolutely useless. Can't believe they started this clown over Adams.
		
Click to expand...

Scotland need a donkey like Kane up front


----------



## GB72 (Jun 14, 2021)

It is not as if the name 'Schick' is a gift to headline writers tomorrow.


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 14, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			That’s a bit harsh he’s had a decent game , not sure why he was in no mans land for the goal though.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair he has made some good saves...but so did Stuart Kennedy in 1975....but he's more fondly remembered for his clutching at Butterflies as the ball kept sailing past him from range


----------



## toyboy54 (Jun 14, 2021)

Garbage display-can't pass, no leader, no ideas as to how to change up, as said before-MEN against boys!
Not looking forward to Friday ( think I'll paint the fence)
Just wondering if being a Scotland fan means you're a MASOCHIST??
Dreadful display-absolute crap!....Darren Fletcher saying "nothing between the two teams, just two goals"..WTF was he watching/ is he on drugs???
Now all the excuses will be trotted out ( just admit it..'WE WERE CRAP!!!)


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2021)

Val said:



			Yeah, I guess we can all forget easily how well Seaman did from Ronadinhos shot from halfway 🤔
		
Click to expand...

cross*


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 14, 2021)

Val said:



			Yeah, I guess we can all forget easily how well Seaman did from Ronadinhos shot from halfway 🤔
		
Click to expand...

I reckon Seaman must have Scottish ancestry because Nayim also did it to to him in 1995.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 14, 2021)

toyboy54 said:



			Garbage display-can't pass, no leader, no ideas as to how to change up, as said before-MEN against boys!
Not looking forward to Friday ( think I'll paint the fence)
Just wondering if being a Scotland fan means you're a MASOCHIST??
Dreadful display-absolute crap!....Darren Fletcher saying "nothing between the two teams, just two goals"..WTF was he watching/ is he on drugs???
Now all the excuses will be trotted out ( just admit it..'WE WERE CRAP!!!)

Click to expand...

Remember though, sometimes the win is more important than the performance.
I’m sure you’ll take the same performance and a 1-0 win on friday.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 14, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			I reckon Seaman must have Scottish ancestry because Nayim also did it to to him in 1995. 

Click to expand...

Don’t think the jocks would agree with you after letting in that late goal against the Dutch to deny Scotland a chance to progress in Euro 96 😂


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 14, 2021)




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## Beezerk (Jun 14, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			That’s a bit harsh he’s had a decent game , not sure why he was in no mans land for the goal though.
		
Click to expand...

Radio commentators suggested the Czech team had done their homework on him and it was planned to shoot from way out given the opportunity. Apparently the Scotland keeper does a lot of sweeping and is always miles off his line.


----------



## CliveW (Jun 14, 2021)

I hear Nicola Sturgeon is asking for a re-match as she didn't get the result she wanted!


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 14, 2021)

CliveW said:



			I hear Nicola Sturgeon is asking for a re-match as she didn't get the result she wanted!
		
Click to expand...

I’m sure all the UK teams will be out of Europe again soon enough!


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## Slime (Jun 14, 2021)

Just watched the Poland vs Slovakia game.
Any enjoyment I could have got from the game was nullified by the awful female commentator.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			Just watched the Poland vs Slovakia game.
Any enjoyment I could have got from the game was nullified by the awful female commentator.
		
Click to expand...

We turned over. Just shut up for crying out loud! Plus her voice was so monotone


----------



## toyboy54 (Jun 14, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Radio commentators suggested the Czech team had done their homework on him and it was planned to shoot from way out given the opportunity. Apparently the Scotland keeper does a lot of sweeping and is always miles off his line.
		
Click to expand...

Are you not talking about curling??
But, if, as you say, then that is clever thinking and doing the prep work properly!!
Was still an absolutely  show from us-should be packing bags now


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## larmen (Jun 14, 2021)

I got a free bet for £5, come in Sweden! No pint in backing a favourite ;-)


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 14, 2021)

Random irritation - Some of the commentary so far in this tournament has been appalling. Spain player takes a shot which comes back off the Swedish keeper. Swedish defender clears it and the commentator says "Laporte was closest to getting the rebound". No he wasn't. The Swedish defender that cleared it was closest to getting the rebound as he actually got it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 14, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Random irritation - Some of the commentary so far in this tournament has been appalling. Spain player takes a shot which comes back off the Swedish keeper. Swedish defender clears it and the commentator says "Laporte was closest to getting the rebound". No he wasn't. The Swedish defender that cleared it was closest to getting the rebound as he actually got it.
		
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If only we could have Ally McCoist at every game- found him very refreshing


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## GreiginFife (Jun 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If only we could have Ally McCoist at every game- found him very refreshing
		
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Not often those words are arranged like that.  
At least he's stopped trying to sound like Sean Connery like he did when he started on Talk Sport in the mornings.


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## fundy (Jun 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If only we could have Ally McCoist at every game- found him very refreshing
		
Click to expand...


poor lad looked utterly drained and defeated after commentating on his beloved Scots for 90 mins though, will need a rest until Friday


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## toyboy54 (Jun 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If only we could have Ally McCoist at every game- found him very refreshing
		
Click to expand...

If only we had him playing


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## williamalex1 (Jun 15, 2021)

Watching  the Hungary v Portugal game, the stadium looks nearly full, packed in like sardines


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2021)

williamalex1 said:



			Watching  the Hungary v Portugal game, the stadium looks nearly full, packed in like sardines 

Click to expand...

It is full. The Hungarians bought vaccines from Russia, bypassed the EU, and their PM wants life to go back to normal.  It's their choice as to how open the stadiums are, numbers in etc.

On another matter, was the Portuguese kit designed by kids on their equivalent of Blue Peter? It's awful.


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## Orikoru (Jun 15, 2021)

Jota has been playing with Salah for too long. That chance in the first five minutes, if he squares it to Ronaldo it's a tap-in for one nil. Blasted it at the goalie and never even looked at Ronaldo.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2021)

@williamalex1 I did a quick Google, Hungary have opted out of the EU vaccine scheme and have gone solo. They have bought vaccines from Russia and China along with the ones we are using. They are well advanced in terms of jabs across the population. They are also using their own vaccine passport scheme for entry into bars, restaurants etc. The people at the game will have had 1 jab minimum and most likely 2 based on what I've read. If we put to one side any worries, or not, isn't it great to see a stadium full of fans again.


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## Fade and Die (Jun 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



@williamalex1 I did a quick Google, Hungary have opted out of the EU vaccine scheme and have gone solo. They have bought vaccines from Russia and China along with the ones we are using. They are well advanced in terms of jabs across the population. They are also using their own vaccine passport scheme for entry into bars, restaurants etc. The people at the game will have had 1 jab minimum and most likely 2 based on what I've read. If we put to one side any worries, or not, isn't it great to see a stadium full of fans again.
		
Click to expand...

Just the sort of thing we could be doing if it wasn’t for “forum unmentionables”


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Just the sort of thing we could be doing if it wasn’t for “forum unmentionables”
		
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We are having test events with reduced numbers and monitoring. The Hungarians have just gone for it.

Who is right starts to touch areas we can't go to, I've tried to keep factual 😄


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## Fade and Die (Jun 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We are having test events with reduced numbers and monitoring. The Hungarians have just gone for it.

Who is right starts to touch areas *we can't go to,* I've tried to keep factual 😄
		
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Exactly. Time will tell if the Magyars have done the right thing… I hope they have done as it will please my anti EU *and* anti further lockdown views. 😄


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2021)

Hungary have put in a solid display here. Not the game Portugal were expecting I suspect. Not sure they will score many but they are ruffling Portugal.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 15, 2021)

Who's co-commentator? John Hartson? I keep hearing the guy from Springwatch and can't concentrate!


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## fundy (Jun 15, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Who's co-commentator? John Hartson? I keep hearing the guy from Springwatch and can't concentrate!
		
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yep thats ginger Johnny Hartson


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## Piece (Jun 15, 2021)

Lovely third goal that 👏


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## IainP (Jun 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We are having test events with reduced numbers and monitoring. The Hungarians have just gone for it.

Who is right starts to touch areas we can't go to, I've tried to keep factual 😄
		
Click to expand...

Yeah it's tricky - taking population into account Hungary have comfortably the worst record in Europe for Covid related deaths. Maybe they just feel they are past that now.


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## toyboy54 (Jun 15, 2021)

IainP said:



			Yeah it's tricky - taking population into account Hungary have comfortably the worst record in Europe for Covid related deaths. Maybe they just feel they are past that now.
		
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OR,..Maybe they just want rid of the rest??


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## AmandaJR (Jun 15, 2021)

Did I just see Deschamps feign being hit by a piece of debris after the Greenpeace guy came a cropper??!!


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## fundy (Jun 15, 2021)

this Pogba lad looks some player...............


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			this Pogba lad looks some player...............
		
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Don’t let Souness hear you say that 😬


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			this Pogba lad looks some player...............
		
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Such a different player when he has Kante doing all the dirty work allowing him to just roam where he wants - that space behind the forwards, it’s the same when he was at Juve


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## fundy (Jun 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Such a different player when he has Kante doing all the dirty work allowing him to just roam where he wants - that space behind the forwards, it’s the same when he was at Juve
		
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scary pairing, scarily good. not like he doesnt do his share of the work either though, just like watching a different player

france still going to need Giroud to come on and kill the game too


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2021)

Should that not be a penalty 🤷‍♂️ Clipped one leg then the other before getting the ball ?


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## fundy (Jun 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should that not be a penalty 🤷‍♂️ Clipped one leg then the other before getting the ball ?
		
Click to expand...

clear penalty on the rules the prem being playing this season for sure


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			clear penalty on the rules the prem being playing this season for sure
		
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Surprised they didn’t check it with VAR


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## fundy (Jun 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surprised they didn’t check it with VAR
		
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wouldve been checked but clearly a directive to keep games flowing and not make decisions, pens, cards etc, at least early in the tournament


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## Slime (Jun 15, 2021)

That Rudiger fella's a nasty piece of work.


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## Beezerk (Jun 15, 2021)

France look superb, hopefully they will peak too early


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## BiMGuy (Jun 15, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			France look superb, hopefully they will peak too early 

Click to expand...

France barely got out of first gear. Germany don't look like much to be worried about.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404372257074524170
👏👏👏


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			France barely got out of first gear. Germany don't look like much to be worried about.
		
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The German's looked toothless. Very disappointing.


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## Imurg (Jun 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The German's looked toothless. Very disappointing.
		
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Oh I don't know...the Germans being toothless at a big footy tournament sounds quite appealing...


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## need_my_wedge (Jun 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



@williamalex1 I did a quick Google, Hungary have opted out of the EU vaccine scheme and have gone solo. They have bought vaccines from Russia and China along with the ones we are using. They are well advanced in terms of jabs across the population. They are also using their own vaccine passport scheme for entry into bars, restaurants etc. The people at the game will have had 1 jab minimum and most likely 2 based on what I've read. If we put to one side any worries, or not, isn't it great to see a stadium full of fans again.
		
Click to expand...

I don't know the latest, but I heard that the China vaccine wasn't particularly effective (https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n969), and the countries in South America that bought it were struggling with the virus despite a "successful" roll out (https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1023) e.g. Chile.

Not sure I'd want to be in that stadium last night, even being double jabbed as I am, wouldn't want that just yet.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 16, 2021)

Slime said:



			That Rudiger fella's a nasty piece of work.
		
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Indeed. Just ask De Bruyne!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 16, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			I don't know the latest, but I heard that the China vaccine wasn't particularly effective (https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n969), and the countries in South America that bought it were struggling with the virus despite a "successful" roll out (https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1023) e.g. Chile.

Not sure I'd want to be in that stadium last night, even being double jabbed as I am, wouldn't want that just yet.
		
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I heard the same, I believe Brazil went big on it and are paying the price.

I think there are 3 camps in terms of crowds a/ can't wait to be there, b/ no way would I want to be there c/ I'd quite like to be there but not  with it being full. The psychological damage of all of this will take some undoing.


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The German's looked toothless. Very disappointing.
		
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Their biggest problem is not having a striker. Over the years they had Klose or Mario Gomez to play off of, but now it's Muller who's never really been a central striker, or Werner who isn't a targetman or much of a goalscorer. They even brought on Volland who's never really been in the picture much for them before.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Their biggest problem is not having a striker. Over the years they had Klose or Mario Gomez to play off of, but now it's Muller who's never really been a central striker, or Werner who isn't a targetman or much of a goalscorer. They even brought on Volland who's never really been in the picture much for them before.
		
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How can a country with that many active players, that much history etc not have a list of strikers lined up to play? Crazy. Did Lloris even have to make a save? I'm not sure he did. I appreciate France are very strong but I still expected more from Germany.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How can a country with that many active players, that much history etc not have a list of strikers lined up to play? Crazy. Did Lloris even have to make a save? I'm not sure he did. I appreciate France are very strong but I still expected more from Germany.
		
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Same for us with a CB really.


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How can a country with that many active players, that much history etc not have a list of strikers lined up to play? Crazy. Did Lloris even have to make a save? I'm not sure he did. I appreciate France are very strong but I still expected more from Germany.
		
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Well it's a same as how a country like England can't produce one good goalkeeper.  Spain are also lacking a striker at the moment. It's just a generational thing, obviously you can't really control what sort of players will emerge over the years.


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## rudebhoy (Jun 16, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			France look superb, hopefully they will peak too early 

Click to expand...

hopefully not, my money is on them!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2021)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/57494358.amp

Premier League Fixtures announced for 2021/22

First page updated as well


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## sunshine (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know who this Dykes feller is, but he is absolutely useless. Can't believe they started this clown over Adams.
		
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He's been out of his depth in the Championship all season. He works hard but doesn't have the pace, skill or finishing quality to succeed at Championship level. Scored a few goals at the back end of the season mainly because Charlie Austin and Willock were on fire and creating chances on a plate for him.

He's a solid League 1 striker, or Scottish football.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Same for us with a CB really.
		
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I'd say our CB options are better than their striker options

@Orikoru I'd say the same with our keepers. It's been said before but Pickford has never made a howler for England. Henderson could have pushed him this year but he largely sat getting splinters and is now out injured anyway.

All of the above are opinions of course.


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## sunshine (Jun 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should that not be a penalty 🤷‍♂️ Clipped one leg then the other before getting the ball ?
		
Click to expand...

He got the ball but slid in from behind (between the attacker's feet). That is clearly not allowed and must be a penalty.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Orikoru I'd say the same with our keepers. It's been said before but Pickford has never made a howler for England. Henderson could have pushed him this year but he largely sat getting splinters and is now out injured anyway.
		
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Jordan or Dean?


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## sunshine (Jun 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The German's looked toothless. Very disappointing.
		
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I believe that the excellence of France made Germany look poor.

I don't count Germany as one of the favourites for the tournament but they are still clearly a very good side who are used to dominating possession. France performance was so good for an opening game, controlled the pace and flow. First time this tournament I can use the word masterclass.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd say our CB options are better than their striker options

@Orikoru I'd say the same with our keepers. It's been said before but Pickford has never made a howler for England. Henderson could have pushed him this year but he largely sat getting splinters and is now out injured anyway.

All of the above are opinions of course.
		
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I'd agree with you on our keepers. There aren't too many in this tournament I would have over Pickford.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 16, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Jordan or Dean? 

Click to expand...

Applicable to both I guess, splinters and injuries this year . No, I've changed my mind, I'm not sure Jordan is agile enough to be a keeper


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## sunshine (Jun 16, 2021)

I hadn't looked at this thread for a week. I had a really good giggle skimming through the comments from the England "experts". Some real insights from the fella in the pub, top sources. I have more reliable sources in my kitchen cupboard, Heinz and HP. Bizarre mixture of negativity and exasperation - Sterling is a proven international player with a good recent record who fits the England playing style better than Sancho etc.

Some great observations too - I have identified the voices of reason!


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## AmandaJR (Jun 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/57494358.amp

Premier League Fixtures announced for 2021/22

First page updated as well
		
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Was I meant to start a new thread or something? Can't recall what was said!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Was I meant to start a new thread or something? Can't recall what was said!
		
Click to expand...

I just changed this to being a generic football thread then updated the front page  to show the current champions 👍 if you would like a better pic 😁


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## AmandaJR (Jun 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I just changed this to being a generic football thread then updated the front page  to show the current champions 👍 if you would like a better pic 😁
		
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It is a cracking picture - thanks


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I'd agree with you on our keepers. There aren't too many in this tournament I would have over Pickford.
		
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You mean aside from Donnarumma, Courtois, Schmeichel, Hradecky, Szczesny, Fabianski, Lloris, Neuer, Gulacsi and Patricio?


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I'd agree with you on our keepers. *There aren't too many in this tournament I would have over Pickford.*

Click to expand...

There are several I would have over Pickford. Courtois, De Gea, Donarumma, Neuer, Lloris, Schmeichel, Patricio, Henderson, Krul, Szczęsny.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You mean aside from Donnarumma, Courtois, Schmeichel, Hradecky, Szczesny, Fabianski, Lloris, Neuer, Gulacsi and Patricio?
		
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I'll give you Schmeichel and Nauyer. The others are no better that Pickford. And his distribution is better than most.


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I'll give you Schmeichel and Nauyer. The others are no better that Pickford. And his distribution is better than most.
		
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Firstly, they're all better than him but especially Donnarumma, Courtois & Lloris who are world class. Secondly, I'm kind of old school in that I like my keeper to keep the ball out of the net first and foremost. Having a good kick on him is nothing more than a bonus.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			There are several I would have over Pickford. Courtois, De Gea, Donarumma, Neuer, Lloris, Schmeichel, Patricio, Henderson, Krul, Szczęsny.
		
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See response above. Henderson isn't even at the tournament.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Firstly, they're all better than him but especially Donnarumma, Courtois & Lloris who are world class. Secondly, I'm kind of old school in that I like my keeper to keep the ball out of the net first and foremost. Having a good kick on him is nothing more than a bonus.
		
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't want my goalkeepers being old-school. Having a keeper that can play is a bigger asset than one that is just a shot stopper.

That is why I rate Pickford over Pope for example.


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't want my goalkeepers being old-school. Having a keeper that can play is a bigger asset than one that is just a shot stopper.

That is why I rate Pickford over Pope for example.
		
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100%, having a keeper who can play the ball out from the defence like an outfield player is a must in the modern game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Firstly, they're all better than him but especially Donnarumma, Courtois & *Lloris *who are *world class. *Secondly, I'm kind of old school in that I like my keeper to keep the ball out of the net first and foremost. Having a good kick on him is nothing more than a bonus.
		
Click to expand...


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't want my goalkeepers being old-school. Having a keeper that can play is a bigger asset than one that is just a shot stopper.

That is why I rate Pickford over Pope for example.
		
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Depends on opposition for me. In the qualifiers and against minnows, yeah absolutely. But once we get through and face Portugal, Germany, or Spain, I would rather go for a proper goalkeeper personally. Otherwise his mistake could cost us an exit.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 16, 2021)

Its coming home


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## rudebhoy (Jun 16, 2021)

sunshine said:



			He got the ball but slid in from behind (between the attacker's feet). That is clearly not allowed and must be a penalty.
		
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absolutely. refs have been incredibly lenient in this tournament so far.


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			absolutely. refs have been incredibly lenient in this tournament so far.
		
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Yeah. But isn't it weird that the whole tournament hasn't been ruined by VAR yet? It's almost as if our officials were actually the problem all along... 👀


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Depends on opposition for me. In the qualifiers and against minnows, yeah absolutely. But once we get through and face Portugal, Germany, or Spain, I would rather go for a proper goalkeeper personally. Otherwise his mistake could cost us an exit.
		
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Ramsdale, Johnstone or Pickford, that’s it.

Even as an Everton fan I think Dean Henderson would be England’s No 1 if he was No 1 for his Club, but as the 3 above are Southgate’s options are you seriously suggesting Pickford should be dropped in favour of one of the other two?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah. But isn't it weird that the whole tournament hasn't been ruined by VAR yet? It's almost as if our officials were actually the problem all along... 👀
		
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Strange how we moan moan about Stockley Park as well when you consider the VAR Officials for these Euros are in Switzerland.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2021)

There isn't a keeper on your list that hasn't made a mistake in a big game.

Even Edderson and Allison make them. 

I'd back Pickford to make a wonder save late in a game or save a penalty.

Shall we also talk about how many strikers miss big chances that might also cost us a win? As this is a more likely scenario than a keeper making a catastrophic mistake.


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Strange how we moan moan about Stockley Park as well when you consider the VAR Officials for these Euros are in Switzerland.
		
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Yeah I think it's a personnel problem rather than a location one.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Ramsdale, Johnstone or Pickford, that’s it.

Even as an Everton fan I think Dean Henderson would be England’s No 1 if he was No 1 for his Club, but as the 3 above are Southgate’s options are you seriously suggesting Pickford should be dropped in favour of one of the other two?
		
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No, you're probably right there. Generally speaking I'd put Henderson and Pope ahead of him for the reasons I mentioned, but with them both out of the picture there is no decision to be made. My overall point stands though that I'm worried about our keeper and CB situation compared to most of the other 'better' nations. But it is what it is.


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## sunshine (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I'll give you Schmeichel and Nauyer. The others are no better that Pickford. And his distribution is better than most.
		
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Courtois is no better than Pickford ? Not sure about that...

You were on my good list of posters on this football thread up until that


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## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Courtois is no better than Pickford ? Not sure about that...

You were on my good list of posters on this football thread up until that 

Click to expand...

In his prime yes. But not now.


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## williamalex1 (Jun 16, 2021)

There's a rumour that Billy Gilmour will replace David Marshall in midfield for the England game


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2021)

williamalex1 said:



			There's a rumour that Billy Gilmour will replace David Marshall in midfield for the England game 

Click to expand...

This is my favourite of the ones I've been sent 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah. But isn't it weird that the whole tournament hasn't been ruined by VAR yet? It's almost as if our officials were actually the problem all along... 👀
		
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now look what youve done, VAR strikes one out 3 mins into the next game!


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			now look what youve done, VAR strikes one out 3 mins into the next game!
		
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Yeah but it was the right call wasn't it? I don't there's been any real crap ones where he was actually level yet.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

Finland and Russia are both pretty rubbish. Probably the lowest quality game I've seen so far.

Edit: Curse of the commentator. And I'm not even one.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd say our CB options are better than their striker options

@Orikoru I'd say the same with our keepers. It's been said before but Pickford has never made a howler for England. Henderson could have pushed him this year but he largely sat getting splinters and is now out injured anyway.

All of the above are opinions of course.
		
Click to expand...

Kyle Walker has been in goal.
That’s why they took him???


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 16, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I hadn't looked at this thread for a week. I had a really good giggle skimming through the comments from the England "experts". Some real insights from the fella in the pub, top sources. I have more reliable sources in my kitchen cupboard, Heinz and HP. Bizarre mixture of negativity and exasperation - Sterling is a proven international player with a good recent record who fits the England playing style better than Sancho etc.

Some great observations too - I have identified the voices of reason!
		
Click to expand...

If your spending time talking to tins in your cupboards your missing the match.


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2021)

not sure which is worse, Arsenal reportedly offering 40m for Ben White or Brighton for turning it down!

actually its Villa thinking they can get Smith Rowe for £25m lol


----------



## toyboy54 (Jun 16, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			This is my favourite of the ones I've been sent 🤣🤣🤣

View attachment 37090

Click to expand...

Up yours!!


----------



## hairball_89 (Jun 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			not sure which is worse, Arsenal reportedly offering 40m for Ben White or Brighton for turning it down!

actually its Villa thinking they can get Smith Rowe for £25m lol
		
Click to expand...

Brighton are, for the amount of money they bring in, one of the most financially stable clubs around. Bloom, Barber and Ashworth run the club brilliantly. 

Simply put, the don't want to sell Ben White and financially, they don't need to. Seems fair enough to me?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 16, 2021)

Such a poor pen from bale ...too cocky


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Finland and Russia are both pretty rubbish. Probably the lowest quality game I've seen so far.
		
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You didn't watch the Scotland game then? 😂


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## AmandaJR (Jun 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Such a poor pen from bale ...too cocky
		
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I hate the stutter run up rubbish. When you can hit the ball like Bale just step up and hit it hard and accurately and your team's 2 up.


----------



## Piece (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Firstly, they're all better than him but especially Donnarumma, Courtois & Lloris who are world class. Secondly, I'm kind of old school in that I like my keeper to keep the ball out of the net first and foremost. Having a good kick on him is nothing more than a bonus.
		
Click to expand...

Gonna be controversial and say Lloris really isn't that good.



sunshine said:



			He got the ball but slid in from behind (between the attacker's feet). That is clearly not allowed and must be a penalty.
		
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There's nothing in the laws to say you can't tackle from behind


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## AmandaJR (Jun 16, 2021)

I would imagine the bosses at Juve are wondering where the Ramsey that has cost them £400,000 per game has been!


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## Slime (Jun 16, 2021)

Ooooh, a little bit of passion and handbags ...................................... love it!

It may carry on after the full time whistle, too.


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Brighton are, for the amount of money they bring in, one of the most financially stable clubs around. Bloom, Barber and Ashworth run the club brilliantly. 

Simply put, the don't want to sell Ben White and financially, they don't need to. Seems fair enough to me?
		
Click to expand...


cracking result for Welsh


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## Slime (Jun 16, 2021)

Robbie Savage, what a knob.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2021)

Great result for Wales 

Can Robbie Savage be anymore annoying - embarrassing himself


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## Slime (Jun 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Great result for Wales

*Can Robbie Savage be anymore annoying* - embarrassing himself
		
Click to expand...

No.


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## toyboy54 (Jun 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			cracking result for Welsh 

Click to expand...

Yep,well done the Welsh-tremendous result, played well--hope the Jocks are watching and learning to dump the caution!!
Still think they would have the punch-up as well


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 16, 2021)

Bale doing his best Stevie G impression.....


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## AmandaJR (Jun 16, 2021)

Slime said:



			No.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly I think it is entirely possible. I had to turn over...more annoying than thunder flies and flying ants!


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## SaintHacker (Jun 16, 2021)

Best game of the tournament by a country mile


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 16, 2021)

Good one Wales.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 16, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I would imagine the bosses at Juve are wondering where the Ramsey that has cost them £400,000 per game has been!
		
Click to expand...

Treatment room?

Turkey were awful, Wales not a great deal better. Good to see them through though.

I can only echo the savage comments


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## pokerjoke (Jun 16, 2021)

Got to agree regarding Ramsey great performance.
Can’t believe Bale 94+ minutes going for goal from corners when I had 1-0 lol
Love RS passion in abundance


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## williamalex1 (Jun 16, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			You didn't watch the Scotland game then? 😂
		
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Oi !


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## Piece (Jun 16, 2021)

Deserved for Wales. Thought they were going to scuff up missing all those chances. Turkey are rubbish.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 16, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57495268
Talented guy Mr Davidson.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Sadly I think it is entirely possible. I had to turn over...more annoying than thunder flies and flying ants!
		
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It’s excruciating- nearly as bad as the commentator during the previous match 😫


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2021)

What happened with Rudiger ?


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## BrianM (Jun 16, 2021)

Benitez for Everton job anyone…..


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Benitez for Everton job anyone…..
		
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😂😂😂


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## AmandaJR (Jun 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What happened with Rudiger ?
		
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Does he have to wear a mask a la Hannibal Lecter now??


----------



## toyboy54 (Jun 16, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			You didn't watch the Scotland game then? 😂
		
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Now we are getting into the realms of the heartfelt....UP YOURS!!
What kills me though,, You are so right ( oh crap )!!


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## williamalex1 (Jun 16, 2021)

toyboy54 said:



			Now we are getting into the realms of the heartfelt....UP YOURS!!
What kills me though,, You are so right ( oh crap )!!

Click to expand...

Flower of Scotland


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Does he have to wear a mask a la Hannibal Lecter now??
		
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🤷‍♂️ Not sure just heard someone on the radio having a pop at him ?


----------



## HowlingGale (Jun 16, 2021)

Tell you what. Italy look scary good. Best I've seen so far.


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## toyboy54 (Jun 16, 2021)

Italy are just looking -and playing - like a well oiled machine!
What's the average of this team-are there not a couple of over 30s in there?? 
Certainly can't beat an old,experienced head sometimes, can you?


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## Piece (Jun 16, 2021)

HowlingGale said:



			Tell you what. Italy look scary good. Best I've seen so far.
		
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Very in-Italy like…high pressing and high intensity.


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## HowlingGale (Jun 16, 2021)

Piece said:



			Very in-Italy like…high pressing and high intensity.
		
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Very comfortable in possession but zipping the ball around with end product. Absolute joy to watch.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 16, 2021)

I wish England would play with this type of zip. Beautiful goal. A wonderful simplicity but so precise.


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2021)

toyboy54 said:



			Now we are getting into the realms of the heartfelt....UP YOURS!!
What kills me though,, You are so right ( oh crap )!!

Click to expand...

You know you'll go and beat us on Friday night though 🤣


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## williamalex1 (Jun 16, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			You know you'll go and beat us on Friday night though 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Care for a bet ?


----------



## toyboy54 (Jun 16, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			You know you'll go and beat us on Friday night though 🤣
		
Click to expand...

 I like a man with a sense of humour, even if it is rather polite
Bring it on though, need to believe like the Welsh and play like the Italians
OOps, just seen a squadron of pigs flying past window


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2021)

williamalex1 said:



			Care for a bet ? 

Click to expand...

I always bet against my own team 😂


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## HowlingGale (Jun 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I wish England would play with this type of zip. Beautiful goal. A wonderful simplicity but so precise.
		
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I've said it for years. England aren't comfortable being patient. That's why they struggle against quality teams who can hold onto the ball. 
Tonight Italy are doing what Spain did the other night but with pace and purpose.


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## fundy (Jun 16, 2021)

HowlingGale said:



			hat. Italy look scary good. Best I've seen so far
		
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Really like them, Chiesa may make them even stronger too


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## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2021)

The Swiss keeper needs to stop bouncing when Italy shoot. 

Both feet off the floor as the player shoots gove him no chance of making a save for goals 2 and 3.

Small error in his basic technique, has massive consequences.


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## IainP (Jun 16, 2021)

HowlingGale said:



			I've said it for years. *England aren't comfortable being patient. That's why they struggle against quality teams who can hold onto the ball.*
Tonight Italy are doing what Spain did the other night but with pace and purpose.
		
Click to expand...

Hit it forward, stick it in the mixer, and bang it in the onion bag 😁
I know what I like, and I like what I know 😉


----------



## larmen (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			The Swiss keeper needs to stop bouncing when Italy shoot.

Both feet off the floor as the player shoots gove him no chance of making a save for goals 2 and 3.

Small error in his basic technique, has massive consequences.
		
Click to expand...

Didn’t watch this game but Sommer is one of the better keepers in the Bundesliga.


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2021)

larmen said:



			Didn’t watch this game but Sommer is one of the better keepers in the Bundesliga.
		
Click to expand...

It's a similar thing to what Da Gea does. A little bounce into a wide A frame stance, then a negative step with the lead foot before pushing off. Takes an extra second to get set and push off towards the ball. This tiny thing makes a huge difference in getting to the ball and making a save or not.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			It's a similar thing to what Da Gea does. A little bounce into a wide A frame stance, then a negative step with the lead foot before pushing off. Takes an extra second to get set and push off towards the ball. This tiny thing makes a huge difference in getting to the ball and making a save or not.
		
Click to expand...

You're right, I think most keepers do it to help them spring, but obviously it's all about the timing. A fraction late and the ball is past you before you're even set.


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You're right, I think most keepers do it to help them spring, but obviously it's all about the timing. A fraction late and the ball is past you before you're even set.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. It doesn't really help at all. Its something that crept in to goalkeeping a few years ago, and many coaches are trying to coach it out.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Indeed. It doesn't really help at all. Its something that crept in to goalkeeping a few years ago, and many coaches are trying to coach it out.
		
Click to expand...

The Bruce Grobbelaar wobbly knees school of goal keeping


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## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2021)

williamalex1 said:



			The Bruce Grobbelaar school of goal keeping 

Click to expand...

That was a completely different level of bouncing around. 🤣


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 16, 2021)

williamalex1 said:



			Flower of Scotland 

Click to expand...

So glad that I have dual Scots/Welsh nationality.
Might be difficult when they meet in the semi finals though.


----------



## larmen (Jun 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Indeed. It doesn't really help at all. Its something that crept in to goalkeeping a few years ago, and many coaches are trying to coach it out.
		
Click to expand...

Might be the plyometric sessions everybody is doing these days?
I used plyos to jump higher playing basketbal.l


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## williamalex1 (Jun 16, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So glad that I have dual Scots/Welsh nationality.
Might be difficult when they meet in the semi finals though. 

Click to expand...

Don't lose any sleep over it  Jaggy thistle oggy oggy oggy .


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## Yorkhacker (Jun 17, 2021)

Belgium are going to kick the ball out of play in the 10th minute and join in a minutes applause for Eriksen. I might be a grumpy old man, but I don't get the need to stop a football match for a public display of affection. They wouldn't be doing it if his shirt number was 90.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 17, 2021)

IainP said:



			Hit it forward, stick it in the mixer, and bang it in the onion bag 😁
I know what I like, and I like what I know 😉
		
Click to expand...

Here speaks Mike Bassett 🤣


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## Orikoru (Jun 17, 2021)

Yorkhacker said:



			Belgium are going to kick the ball out of play in the 10th minute and join in a minutes applause for Eriksen. I might be a grumpy old man, but I don't get the need to stop a football match for a public display of affection. They wouldn't be doing it if his shirt number was 90.
		
Click to expand...

I don't really understand it. So for 9 minutes they'll be desperately trying to score, and then when it ticks to 10 someone will say "oh hang on for a minute, we're kicking it out now". And then Denmark just throw it back to them, or what? Sounds a bit of a damp squib to me but we'll see.

Eriksen has always seemed a very down-to-earth guy as well, I reckon if they asked him he'd say why are you bothering with this? lol


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## Orikoru (Jun 17, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Here speaks Mike Bassett 🤣
		
Click to expand...

He must have been gutted when Big Sam only lasted one game.


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## larmen (Jun 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't really understand it. So for 9 minutes they'll be desperately trying to score, and then when it ticks to 10 someone will say "oh hang on for a minute, we're kicking it out now". And then Denmark just throw it back to them, or what? Sounds a bit of a damp squib to me but we'll see.

Eriksen has always seemed a very down-to-earth guy as well, I reckon if they asked him he'd say why are you bothering with this? lol
		
Click to expand...

What if they just have a 2 on 0 counter attack?

I would gave thought carrying his jersey out before the game, take a minute then similar to the England players kneeing.


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## Orikoru (Jun 17, 2021)

larmen said:



			What if they just have a 2 on 0 counter attack?

I would gave thought carrying his jersey out before the game, take a minute then similar to the England players kneeing.
		
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Yeah, just get it out the way before the game, announce his name for an applause or something. Either that or go with the old name on a t-shirt under your main shirt for if you score.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 17, 2021)

Your daily reminder that Football is coming home


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## rudebhoy (Jun 17, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Your daily reminder that Football is coming home
		
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are you French or Italian?


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 17, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			are you French or Italian?
		
Click to expand...

Are you a pessimist?


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## rudebhoy (Jun 17, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Are you a pessimist?
		
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No, I'm optimistically hoping France or Italy win it


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 17, 2021)

If Belgium’s opponents decide to throw the ball in and carry on .
What are they going to do just let them score.?
If they lost 1-0 that’s not going down well.
It’s up to the ref to stop the game nobody else.
Bit unsportsmanlike but it could happen, do they have the agreement of the other side?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 17, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If Belgium’s opponents decide to throw the ball in and carry on .
What are they going to do just let them score.?
If they lost 1-0 that’s not going down well.
It’s up to the ref to stop the game nobody else.
Bit unsportsmanlike but it could happen, do they have the agreement of the other side?
		
Click to expand...

They are playing Denmark so it would be a bit off if the Danes did that


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 17, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



*If Belgium’s opponents decide to throw the ball in and carry on .
What are they going to do just let them score.?*
If they lost 1-0 that’s not going down well.
It’s up to the ref to stop the game nobody else.
Bit unsportsmanlike but it could happen, do they have the agreement of the other side?
		
Click to expand...

Belgium's opponents are Denmark, hence the "tribute" to Eriksen. I think it unlikely that Denmark will play on and try to score while Belgium are honouring one of their players that nearly died. Especially as the minute applause has been organised by Danish fans.


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## Rooter (Jun 17, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They are playing Denmark so it would be a bit off if the Danes did that 

Click to expand...

They sneaky though them Danes, just look at the Viking invasions of 793AD, we don't forget lads..


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## richart (Jun 17, 2021)

Enjoyed the Italian style of play, and can't remember thinking that since 1970.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 17, 2021)

Rooter said:



			They sneaky though them Danes, just look at the Viking invasions of 793AD, we don't forget lads..
		
Click to expand...

That's a fair point. Living in Northumberland that is something I should have thought of. They made a bit of a mess of many a town and village here during the pillaging years.


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## rudebhoy (Jun 17, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's a fair point. Living in Northumberland that is something I should have thought of. *They made a bit of a mess of many a town and village here during the pillaging years*.
		
Click to expand...

is that why no-one says "what did the Danes ever do for us?"


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## Orikoru (Jun 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Belgium's opponents are Denmark, hence the "tribute" to Eriksen. *I think it unlikely that Denmark will play on and try to score* while Belgium are honouring one of their players that nearly died. Especially as the minute applause has been organised by Danish fans.
		
Click to expand...

Imagine if they did though! That would be the best piece of housery of all time.


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## fundy (Jun 17, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			is that why no-one says "what did the Danes ever do for us?"
		
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surely if they did the answer would be Bacon


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## Rooter (Jun 17, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			is that why no-one says "what did the Danes ever do for us?"
		
Click to expand...

Apart from the ship building and combs that is.. And York.


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## Fade and Die (Jun 17, 2021)

And Probably the best beer in the world!


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## yandabrown (Jun 17, 2021)

And pastries


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 17, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They are playing Denmark so it would be a bit off if the Danes did that 

Click to expand...

Schoolboy error I didn’t even think it was Denmark.

Would be funny though.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I just ordered one of these. Bit of retro quality for only 30 quid. 

Click to expand...

I succumbed and ordered the white one with 19 on the back, got delivered earlier 👀


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## fundy (Jun 17, 2021)

And another one bites the dust for Levy and Spurs, Fonseca not happening, onto Gattuso who parted ways with Fiorentina after 3 weeks this morning lol


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## Rlburnside (Jun 17, 2021)

I’m hoping Denmark do well as I’m going there for 3 weeks on the 26th.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			And another one bites the dust for Levy and Spurs, Fonseca not happening, onto Gattuso who parted ways with Fiorentina after 3 weeks this morning lol
		
Click to expand...

Well we’re down to about 5th choice now not good 😡⚔️


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## fundy (Jun 17, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Well we’re down to about 5th choice now not good 😡⚔️
		
Click to expand...


more than that isnt it lol

give it a couple more weeks and Southgate be available


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## Kellfire (Jun 17, 2021)

Can Belgium afford to put it out of play at ten minutes?!


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 17, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Can Belgium afford to put it out of play at ten minutes?!
		
Click to expand...

They looked like they were having second thoughts about that, but the ref blew his whistle for it. 

In other news, Denmark have two home kits for some reason. The first game they had white sleeves and shorts on it. Weird.


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## Piece (Jun 17, 2021)

When do we think Belgium will turn up?


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## Orikoru (Jun 17, 2021)

Piece said:



			When do we think Belgium will turn up?
		
Click to expand...

After a rousing half time team talk from their manag- oh wait, maybe not.


----------



## Piece (Jun 17, 2021)

KdB is quite good


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			After a rousing half time team talk from their manag- oh wait, maybe not.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Is that 2-1 to Belgium


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2021)

Lukaku and de Bruyne scarily good at times


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			Lukaku and de Bruyne scarily good at times
		
Click to expand...

Amazing you would leave kdb on the bench ..


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Amazing you would leave kdb on the bench ..
		
Click to expand...


easing him in gently since he was "assaulted" by Rudiger, wouldnt have been there if fully fit. expect he may get a rest for the final group game again if they win here too


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## pauljames87 (Jun 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			easing him in gently since he was "assaulted" by Rudiger, wouldnt have been there if fully fit. expect he may get a rest for the final group game again if they win here too
		
Click to expand...

If he was that injured surely would be playing in the old batman mask no?

Come on and bossed this game


----------



## Piece (Jun 17, 2021)

Belgium still look a bit flakey at the back


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2021)

Piece said:



			Belgium still look a bit flakey at the back
		
Click to expand...

Three CB’s with little pace and seem to have not much organisational skills between which is surprising considering the expirence they have


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂😂😂😂😂

Is that 2-1 to Belgium
		
Click to expand...

You and I know it's nothing to do with the manager. De Bruyne is just astonishingly good and has changed the game single-handedly. 



Piece said:



			Belgium still look a bit flakey at the back
		
Click to expand...

Another Martinez trademark, playing people in the wrong position. Vertonghen we know is lacking a bit of pace these days, but instead of putting a solid left wing back in to cover him and help him out, he plays a forward there in Thorgan Hazard. Genius.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You and I know it's nothing to do with the manager. De Bruyne is just astonishingly good and has changed the game single-handedly.


Another Martinez trademark, playing people in the wrong position. Vertonghen we know is lacking a bit of pace these days, but instead of putting a solid left wing back in to cover him and help him out, he plays a forward there in Thorgan Hazard. Genius. 

Click to expand...

A defensive midfielder that can't organise the defensive side of the game ..

And it's like Barca managers who have Messi in his prime and take credit for basically saying .. give the ball to Leo lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You and I know it's nothing to do with the manager. De Bruyne is just astonishingly good and has changed the game single-handedly.


Another Martinez trademark, playing people in the wrong position. Vertonghen we know is lacking a bit of pace these days, but instead of putting a solid left wing back in to cover him and help him out, he plays a forward there in Thorgan Hazard. Genius. 

Click to expand...

Belgium playing awful - manager makes the change at halftime , Belgium start to dominate and get back into the game to start winning yet it’s nothing to do with the manager who made the change 🙄


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2021)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...heart-starter-device-following-cardiac-arrest

Looks like he has a chance to play again - A number of players have the same device fitted


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 17, 2021)

yandabrown said:



			And pastries
		
Click to expand...

They're actually Austrian... 

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/denmark/articles/are-danish-pastries-really-from-denmark/


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Belgium playing awful - manager makes the change at halftime , Belgium start to dominate and get back into the game to start winning yet it’s nothing to do with the manager who made the change 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Manager puts out rubbish first term.. and plays poorly.

Manager then puts out team he should have and they play well

Managers initial mistake almost cost them


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Manager puts out rubbish first term.. and plays poorly.

Manager then puts out team he should have and they play well

Managers initial mistake almost cost them
		
Click to expand...

Rubbish first team 🙄

That team was more than good enough to win 

So it’s - team plays well , players did well

Team doesn’t play well - manager at fault.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Belgium playing awful - manager makes the change at halftime , Belgium start to dominate and get back into the game to start winning yet it’s nothing to do with the manager who made the change 🙄
		
Click to expand...

I know you're winding me up and you're not seriously giving him credit for the most obvious no-brainer change of all time - bring on De Bruyne and Hazard. However did he come up with that? What a genius!


----------



## Piece (Jun 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...heart-starter-device-following-cardiac-arrest

Looks like he has a chance to play again - A number of players have the same device fitted
		
Click to expand...

Including one we are watching now, Daley Blind.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I know you're winding me up and you're not seriously giving him credit for the most obvious no-brainer change of all time - bring on De Bruyne and Hazard. However did he come up with that? What a genius!
		
Click to expand...

The same team he started with minus the right back was the team that smashed Russia 3 nil and the same De Bruyne that recently under went surgery since his face was smashed in the CL Final and was still unsure if he would ok for the group stages

You posted that the manager hinting that the manager would be able to do nothing at half time to turn things around - he did and they won but I’m sure we can see the post where you suggested what needs to be changed. It won’t hurt too much to accept that the changes the manager made at half time helped his time win the game


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2021)

Piece said:



			Including one we are watching now, Daley Blind.
		
Click to expand...

It would be excellent if the device allows him to continue to play


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The same team he started with minus the right back was the team that smashed Russia 3 nil and the same De Bruyne that recently under went surgery since his face was smashed in the CL Final and was still unsure if he would ok for the group stages

You posted that the manager hinting that the manager would be able to do nothing at half time to turn things around - he did and they won but I’m sure we can see the post where you suggested what needs to be changed. It won’t hurt too much to accept that the changes the manager made at half time helped his time win the game
		
Click to expand...

Haha, stop it, seriously. 😂 Of course his changes won the game because he brought on DE BRUYNE AND HAZARD.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Haha, stop it, seriously. 😂 Of course his changes won the game because he brought on DE BRUYNE AND HAZARD.
		
Click to expand...

Just like when a team puts out reserves in the Cup are losing so bring on the big guns to make up for the original disrespect of the oppo


----------



## Dando (Jun 17, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's a fair point. Living in Northumberland that is something I should have thought of. They made a bit of a mess of many a town and village here during the pillaging years.
		
Click to expand...

And many of those towns and villages still haven’t recovered


----------



## HowlingGale (Jun 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It would be excellent if the device allows him to continue to play
		
Click to expand...

The difference is Daley Blind never suffered a cardiac arrest, think he just passed out. Can't remember where but there was an expert on somewhere that said it's highly unlikely he'll play at the top level again or any level for that matter.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 17, 2021)

HowlingGale said:



			The difference is Daley Blind never suffered a cardiac arrest, think he just passed out. Can't remember where but there was an expert on somewhere that said* it's highly unlikely he'll play at the top level again* or any level for that matter.
		
Click to expand...

Back to Spurs then?


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## HowlingGale (Jun 17, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Back to Spurs then? 

Click to expand...

😂 I'm sure he'd settle for that. All joking aside hope he beats the odds.


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## fundy (Jun 17, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Back to Spurs then? 

Click to expand...


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 18, 2021)

HowlingGale said:



			😂 I'm sure he'd settle for that. All joking aside hope he beats the odds.
		
Click to expand...

As a fellow member of the club he has just unwittingly joined, so do I.  As a football fan the opportunity was too good to pass up. 😉


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Your daily reminder that Football is coming home
		
Click to expand...

If you are talking about International Football then that would of course be Scotland. 

Anyone worked out if it is lions or leopards on the England shirt yet.


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 18, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			If you are talking about International Football then that would of course be Scotland. 

Anyone worked out if it is lions or leopards on the England shirt yet.
		
Click to expand...

THREE LIONS ON A SHIRRRTTTTTT


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			THREE LIONS ON A SHIRRRTTTTTT 

Click to expand...

I think it is Leopards myself. Skinner and Badiell did not spot the difference and made a massive boob boo.
Scotland takes heraldry in the right spirit, we have a Unicorn as our national animal.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It would be excellent if the device allows him to continue to play
		
Click to expand...

Mate of mine had one fitted years ago .
He was an Olympic squad member in the Judo.
Never really fought again at that level but he could compete in national.
But it did cost him his job, the electro magnets in the machines in work interfered with it apparently.
Let’s hope the lad can play again.


----------



## GB72 (Jun 18, 2021)

Not surprising to see stories coming out about UEFA throwing its weight around again. Apparently threatening to pull the Euros final from Wembley if its dignateries and VIPS do not get exempted from quarentine. 

if this is the case, this really needs to be stamped on with a untied front from all nations stating that they will not grant them any special dispensation on covid regulations.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 18, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not surprising to see stories coming out about UEFA throwing its weight around again. Apparently threatening to pull the Euros final from Wembley if its dignateries and VIPS do not get exempted from quarentine.

if this is the case, this really needs to be stamped on with a untied front from all nations stating that they will not grant them any special dispensation on covid regulations.
		
Click to expand...

How about a break away from them?
That seemed popular.


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 18, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I think it is Leopards myself. Skinner and Badiell did not spot the difference and made a massive boob boo.
Scotland takes heraldry in the right spirit, we have a Unicorn as our national animal.

Click to expand...

To be fair, I did see multiple Unicorns when walking the West Highland Way!


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## GB72 (Jun 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			How about a break away from them?
That seemed popular.
		
Click to expand...

Was thinking more along the lines of participating nations agreed to decline any invite to host the final if it was being moved on the grounds that the host nation would not let the UEFA cronies and hangers on bypass covid regulations.


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## rudebhoy (Jun 18, 2021)

Quite possibly the worst odds I have ever seen offered on a sporting event, got to be more like 10,000/1


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## larmen (Jun 18, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Was thinking more along the lines of participating nations agreed to decline any invite to host the final if it was being moved on the grounds that the host nation would not let the UEFA cronies and hangers on bypass covid regulations.
		
Click to expand...

What happened to the ship where Cantona hosted his football competition for the Nike adverts?


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I think it is Leopards myself. Skinner and Badiell did not spot the difference and made a massive boob boo.
Scotland takes heraldry in the right spirit, *we have a Unicorn as our national animal.*

Click to expand...

Your boys have more chance of finding a unicorn than they have of winning a football tournament.


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not surprising to see stories coming out about UEFA throwing its weight around again. Apparently threatening to pull the Euros final from Wembley if its dignateries and VIPS do not get exempted from quarentine.

if this is the case, *this really needs to be stamped on with a untied front *from all nations stating that they will not grant them any special dispensation on covid regulations.
		
Click to expand...

Is that the same as unfastened zips?


----------



## Rooter (Jun 18, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			THREE LIONS ON A SHIRRRTTTTTT 

Click to expand...


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 18, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not surprising to see stories coming out about UEFA throwing its weight around again. *Apparently threatening to pull the Euros final from Wembley if its dignateries and VIPS do not get exempted from quarentine.*

if this is the case, this really needs to be stamped on with a untied front from all nations stating that they will not grant them any special dispensation on covid regulations.
		
Click to expand...

Repeat of what allegedly happened with the Champions League final then.  And as we saw then, they managed to find one with whom they could come to an agreement.


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## GB72 (Jun 18, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Repeat of what allegedly happened with the Champions League final then.  And as we saw then, they managed to find one with whom they could come to an agreement.
		
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You would like to think that the Champions League was a one off with differing circumstances but to pull this when they have known what is necessary at least since the champtions league final is basically an attempt at blackmail. Naively I would hope that other nations would see that and be supportive.


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not surprising to see stories coming out about UEFA throwing its weight around again. *Apparently threatening to pull the Euros final from Wembley if its dignateries and VIPS do not get exempted from quarentine.*

if this is the case, this really needs to be stamped on with a untied front from all nations stating that they will not grant them any special dispensation on covid regulations.
		
Click to expand...

I'd call their bluff and delay a decision until it's too late for them to switch venues.
They shouldn't be allowed to blackmail us and we shouldn't change our rules to satisfy their agendas.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 18, 2021)

GB72 said:



			You would like to think that the Champions League was a one off with differing circumstances but to pull this when they have known what is necessary at least since the champtions league final is basically an attempt at blackmail. Naively I would hope that other nations would see that and be supportive.
		
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Nothing close to a one off.  In 2000, UEFA sent two sets of Spanish fans to Paris for the Champions League Final.  In 2008, UEFA sent two sets of English fans to Moscow for the Champions League Final.  In 2016 UEFA sent two sets of Spanish fans to Italy for the Champions League Final.  In 2019 UEFA sent two sets of English fans to Madrid for the Champions League Final, AND a further two sets of English Fans to Baku, Azerbaijan for the Europa League final.  And I've probably missed some.

They only give a toss about the money, they couldn't give a  about the fans.  Whilst the way the 6 English clubs went about the ESL was wrong, the sentiment in screwing UEFA over was spot on.


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## GB72 (Jun 18, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Nothing close to a one off.  In 2000, UEFA sent two sets of Spanish fans to Paris for the Champions League Final.  In 2008, UEFA sent two sets of English fans to Moscow for the Champions League Final.  In 2016 UEFA sent two sets of Spanish fans to Italy for the Champions League Final.  In 2019 UEFA sent two sets of English fans to Madrid for the Champions League Final, AND a further two sets of English Fans to Baku, Azerbaijan for the Europa League final.  And I've probably missed some.

They only give a toss about the money, they couldn't give a  about the fans.  Whilst the way the 6 English clubs went about the ESL was wrong, the sentiment in screwing UEFA over was spot on.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, meant a one off in terms of moving the event due to covid and the situation in Turkey at the time. The requirements for holding a final (be it Champions League or Euros) were set out then and so it should have been clear that their VIPS etc would not be allowed to avoid quarentine and so the implication would be that they had agreed to those terms for the Euro final.


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## GB72 (Jun 18, 2021)

Guess the irony is that the UEFA great and good stand more chance of taking an unwanted variant back to their home country than bringing one in. Certainly if I were their home nation I would be having them locked down fo r14 days on tiheir return


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## BiMGuy (Jun 18, 2021)

Scotland team has been leaked.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Your boys have more chance of finding a unicorn than they have of winning a football tournament.  

Click to expand...

Please remind me how many times England have won the European championships.


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Please remind me how many times England have won the European championships. 

Click to expand...

Nil ....................... but at least we're in the conversation.


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## Dando (Jun 18, 2021)

If Scotland lose, will the SNP demand a rematch?


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## williamalex1 (Jun 18, 2021)

Can anyone post Scotland's 1982 world cup song " We have a Dream "  on YouTube,  it's the best football song ever .


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 18, 2021)

Klinsman wants the Spurs job .
From his own mouth on MOTD.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 18, 2021)

Glad that Southgate has gone for a proper left back up against Robertson. And pleased to see no Walker in the team. Like the first game I still would've preferred Grealish in the starting XI but can't see anything other than an England win.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2021)

Dando said:



			If Scotland lose, will the SNP demand a rematch?
		
Click to expand...

No.
British politicians cannot overrule European rules.........the English Tory party should know all about that one.

Tierney and Robertson are going to be hard to contain.
Very attack minded Scots team.
McGinn to score a couple [at least]


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## chrisd (Jun 18, 2021)

Love it that it's the biggest game in a generation for Scotland  - for England it's just another route to the final 😁😁


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 18, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Sorry, meant a one off in terms of moving the event due to covid and the situation in Turkey at the time. The requirements for holding a final (be it Champions League or Euros) were set out then and so it should have been clear that their VIPS etc would not be allowed to avoid quarentine and so the implication would be that they had agreed to those terms for the Euro final.
		
Click to expand...

Covid might have been a one off, the putting the fans second to the money certainly isn't, they've been practising it for years.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Glad that Southgate has gone for a proper left back up against Robertson. And pleased to see no Walker in the team. Like the first game I still would've preferred Grealish in the starting XI but can't see anything other than an England win.
		
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Won’t Robertson be up against Reece James 🤷‍♂️


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Won’t Robertson be up against Reece James 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

He will indeed. Don't know why I thought he was playing RB. But still glad we've got a proper LB in the team.

EDIT - although, are we sure that Southgate isn't planning to put Shaw at RB and James at LB?


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## ger147 (Jun 18, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Love it that it's the biggest game in a generation for Scotland  - for England it's just another route to the final 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

You mean quarter final 👍🏻


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Love it that it's the biggest game in a generation for Scotland  - for England it's just another route to *the final *😁😁
		
Click to expand...


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## backwoodsman (Jun 18, 2021)

All I ask is that we're all still friends at 10 o clock ...


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## Rlburnside (Jun 18, 2021)

On route in the North Sea going to miss the game 😡


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 18, 2021)

Torn.


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Torn.
		
Click to expand...

Hamstring or calf?


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Hamstring or calf?
		
Click to expand...

Or Natalie Imbruglia?


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## williamalex1 (Jun 18, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			No.
British politicians cannot overrule European rules.........the English Tory party should know all about that one.

Tierney and Robertson are going to be hard to contain.
Very attack minded Scots team.
McGinn to score a couple [at least]
		
Click to expand...

Why is O'Donnell playing instead of Patterson  who is a far better player


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Or Natalie Imbruglia?
		
Click to expand...

Nope ........................... not a clue.


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## fundy (Jun 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Nope ........................... not a clue. 

Click to expand...


Beth Brennan


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## Smiffy (Jun 18, 2021)

Why don't linesmen raise their flags for offside immediately nowadays?


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## fundy (Jun 18, 2021)

Smiffy said:



			Why don't linesmen raise their flags for offside immediately nowadays?
		
Click to expand...


one of the great side effects of VAR

can always be given off when reviewed, cant be brought back if flagged off when it wasnt and given the chance to score


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## toyboy54 (Jun 18, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Scotland team has been leaked.





Click to expand...

Bit out of date are you not???....Williamalex1 sent me this on Tues and has been in the daillies


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## fundy (Jun 18, 2021)

awful turgid stuff again, full backs too deep plus 2 holding midfielders, no width further forward and Kane utterly isolated, be behind if Pickford hadnt made a top class save

yes im moaning but if you think its coming home with Southgate in charge just rofl, no doubt we'll have controlled the game better than any other side in the round when we scratch a 1-0 2nd half 

come on Levy, surely Southgates the man for your vacancy


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## toyboy54 (Jun 18, 2021)

Dando said:



			If Scotland lose, will the SNP demand a rematch?
		
Click to expand...

Probably ( They do nothing else anyway)


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## BrianM (Jun 18, 2021)

Scrappy half which Scotland probably shaded, although Stones should of buried that header.
Expected more from England playing at home.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			awful turgid stuff again, full backs too deep plus 2 holding midfielders, no width further forward and Kane utterly isolated, be behind if Pickford hadnt made a top class save

yes im moaning but if you think its coming home with Southgate in charge just rofl, no doubt we'll have controlled the game better than any other side in the round when we scratch a 1-0 2nd half

come on Levy, surely Southgates the man for your vacancy 

Click to expand...

I could of written that myself.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 18, 2021)

Get grealish on for crying out loud


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## BiMGuy (Jun 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			awful turgid stuff again, full backs too deep plus 2 holding midfielders, no width further forward and Kane utterly isolated, be behind if Pickford hadnt made a top class save

yes im moaning but if you think its coming home with Southgate in charge just rofl, no doubt we'll have controlled the game better than any other side in the round when we scratch a 1-0 2nd half

come on Levy, surely Southgates the man for your vacancy 

Click to expand...

We are only playing with one defensive midfielder. Philips is playing as far forward as Mount. 
The problem is the speed of the ball out of defence.


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## Piece (Jun 18, 2021)

That was rubbish from England. Too slow on the ball, going backwards, no urgency. No one picking up Adams in the pocket and no high pressure. Scotland cruising. Bored shouting at the TV.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 18, 2021)

Far to slow.

Sideways and back passes when on the attack and ,missing your chances
Stones got to score there.
Why isn’t Grealish playing


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## harpo_72 (Jun 18, 2021)

They need to one touch pass , Bale broke the line with fast reverse passes .. not seen any of that from England


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## Tashyboy (Jun 18, 2021)

Like Ave said, we are hardly in second gear with the handbrake on. The problem is not the players. It’s the golden waistcoat. I don’t care if we win 5-0 now. Southgate is reactive not proactive. Seriously, 2 defensive midfielders v Scotland.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 18, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Get grealish on for crying out loud
		
Click to expand...

We need to speed play up not slow it down. 
Bellingham for Sterling and anyone for Kane.
I'd have Tripper on for Shaw too.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 18, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			We need to speed play up not slow it down.
Bellingham for Sterling and anyone for Kane.
I'd have Tripper on for Shaw too.
		
Click to expand...

Don't get why James got in place of tripper .. 

Grealish will make things happen. Win a lot of free kicks aswell which would be a chance at least


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## Tashyboy (Jun 18, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			We need to speed play up not slow it down.
Bellingham for Sterling and anyone for Kane.
I'd have Tripper on for Shaw too.
		
Click to expand...


QUOTE="BiMGuy, post: 2365893, member: 29109"]We need to speed play up not slow it down.
Bellingham for Sterling and anyone for Kane.
I'd have Tripper on for Shaw too.[/QUOTE]


grealish for Sterling, Bellingham for a def midfielder/ rice.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			awful turgid stuff again, full backs too deep plus 2 holding midfielders, no width further forward and Kane utterly isolated, be behind if Pickford hadnt made a top class save

yes im moaning but if you think its coming home with Southgate in charge just rofl, no doubt we'll have controlled the game better than any other side in the round when we scratch a 1-0 2nd half

come on Levy, surely Southgates the man for your vacancy 

Click to expand...

I was going to go for slow, lacklustre and boring but I think your word "turgid" is better. Can only blame the manager. He must be happy with what he's seeing or he'd be changing things or at the least shouting from the technical area.


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## 4LEX (Jun 18, 2021)

This is why Southgate gets stick. Great man manager but tactically clueless and way too negative.

The formation is built for the full backs and James and Shaw were embarrassing. Switch to 433 and bring on Bellingham and Sancho.


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## IanM (Jun 18, 2021)

Scotland playing nicely.... 

Barry Kane isn't as good as his twin brother is he?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

Get Sterling off ffs 🤦‍♂️


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## fundy (Jun 18, 2021)

lol, that you take Foden off of the options


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

Has Phillips touched the ball in 2nd half?


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## AmandaJR (Jun 18, 2021)

Oh for heaven's sake - anyone off but Foden...you total numpty Southgate.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol, that you take Foden off of the options
		
Click to expand...

🤯


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## Piece (Jun 18, 2021)

Gareth what are you doing? Foden has been lively. What about Rice? Phillips? Mount? James?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

Got to laugh that Grealish is being  turned into Messi because he’s not being picked.
“If Grealish was on……..”


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## Captainron (Jun 18, 2021)

The donkey is an ornament thus far


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			QUOTE="BiMGuy, post: 2365893, member: 29109"]We need to speed play up not slow it down.
Bellingham for Sterling and anyone for Kane.
I'd have Tripper on for Shaw too.
		
Click to expand...


grealish for Sterling, Bellingham for a def midfielder/ rice.[/QUOTE]
We need Kane to take a decent corner as nobody seems able to.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

Piece said:



			Gareth what are you doing? Foden has been lively. What about Rice? Phillips? Mount? James?
		
Click to expand...

Mount as been decent mate,agree on the others,Sterling been poor.


----------



## Piece (Jun 18, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Mount as been decent mate,agree on the others,Sterling been poor.
		
Click to expand...

Sterling stays on because of the 'pace' he has


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 18, 2021)

Piece said:



			Sterling stays on because of the 'pace' he has
		
Click to expand...

But never uses .
When’s the last time he took anyone on?


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 18, 2021)

Finally taken Kane off.


----------



## Piece (Jun 18, 2021)

Kane hasnt been great but has been given nothing to work with at all


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			Beth Brennan 

Click to expand...

Still not a clue!


----------



## fundy (Jun 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Still not a clue!  

Click to expand...

For those of us born in the early 70s, Natalie Imbruglia played Beth Brennan in Neighbours (and most of us had a crush as she was rather easy on the eye) ,she went on to have a hit single called Torn hence where this started lol


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## Billysboots (Jun 18, 2021)

Grealish for Sterling HAD to be the call. How on Earth is Sterling still on the pitch? He’s been awful.

We have been slow, predictable and have created zip. Scotland have been happy to see the game played in front of them.

Very, very average.


----------



## Piece (Jun 18, 2021)

Gareth you have been poor today sir


----------



## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

Thoroughly enjoying the commentary with McCoist and Dixon, top banter.


----------



## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			For those of us born in the early 70s, Natalie Imbruglia played Beth Brennan in Neighbours (and most of us had a crush as she was rather easy on the eye) ,she went on to have a hit single called Torn hence where this started lol
		
Click to expand...

Oh, you youngsters!


----------



## fundy (Jun 18, 2021)

Slime said:





Click to expand...






 enjoy or not


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 18, 2021)

Ave already sent an email to the English FA congratulating themselves and Gareth Southgate for making Scotland look good.


----------



## fundy (Jun 18, 2021)

all the so called depth of squad and weve still got 3 subs to go with 5 mins left at 0-0 lol


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 18, 2021)

Piece said:



			Kane hasnt been great but has been given nothing to work with at all
		
Click to expand...

The problem is that when the forwards make the runs, it’s a defensive midfielder with the ball and there simply not good enough to pick them out.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			For those of us born in the early 70s, Natalie Imbruglia played Beth Brennan in Neighbours (and most of us had a crush as she was rather easy on the eye) ,she went on to have a hit single called Torn hence where this started lol
		
Click to expand...

I was born early 80s & I agree she was/still is banging 👌


----------



## fundy (Jun 18, 2021)

you know whats worse, 0-0 against the Czechs gonna work for everyone if this ends as a draw 😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

They just look so scared of losing that they won't take a chance.
I blame the media.


----------



## paddyc (Jun 18, 2021)

England bereft of any quality  The Scots look more likely  to nick this.Anyone who had delusions of England winning the whole thing🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Piece (Jun 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The problem is that when the forwards make the runs, it’s a defensive midfielder with the ball and there simply not good enough to pick them out.
		
Click to expand...

Yup. Far too negative from Southgate. You need your footballing players playing football in the middle of the park. You need urgency and intent to move forward.  Not this turgid stand-off rubbish.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 18, 2021)

All the talk going in to this tournament was about how many great attacking options we have. One of our most exciting squads in years being made to play slow, dull, defensive football.


----------



## Dando (Jun 18, 2021)

What a load of 💩


----------



## fundy (Jun 18, 2021)

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 18, 2021)

What's the point of taking a billion attacking forwards who cant do anything!! Bamford would have brought more to that game


----------



## Captainron (Jun 18, 2021)

I’ve taken more exciting dumps than that.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2021)

It takes talent to take a lot of bright attacking fluid players and turn them into that bunch of turgid player. 😂


----------



## Piece (Jun 18, 2021)

Scotland earnt that. Well done.

England were dreadful and Italy et al can sleep easily watching that. 😡🤬


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2021)

He's just keeping his powder dry and his players fit for the latter stages.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			He's just keeping his powder dry and his players fit for the latter stages.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 18, 2021)

Well that was bloody awful. 

It might not be coming home 😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 18, 2021)

Everything I expected from England.
To slow ,to defensive.
We need a manager who wants to win, not one who dosnt want to lose!


----------



## IainP (Jun 18, 2021)

Can only hope the backlash leads to GS taking the shackles off. A 4 - 3 would be worth watching...


----------



## IanM (Jun 18, 2021)

British collusion so we both qualify 😏😏 

Actually,  Clark just out coached  Southgate 

Well played Scotland.   Our lot went missing


----------



## BrianM (Jun 18, 2021)

Billy Gilmour was superb, disappointed we never won in the end.
I don’t think England are going to win it based on that performance.


----------



## ger147 (Jun 18, 2021)

Was always gonna be a tough ask for Scotland to win with the lack of quality available in the final third but that was a decent performance, looked pretty comfortable in the second half and deserved our point.

I doubt a point will be enough and we will go out as usual but will just have to wait and see what happens.

England were rubbish, with the talent and quality available they should be performing far better than that.


----------



## Piece (Jun 18, 2021)

Gareth's master plan to finish second 😂


----------



## Billysboots (Jun 18, 2021)

Is Sancho injured? Bellingham?

Sorry, but persisting with Rice, Phillips and Sterling for 90 minutes when we have options on the bench just sums Southgate up. Too negative by far. Deserved nothing. Dull, boring, pedestrian football.

Will those who were so quick to praise our “game management” against an average Croatia now open their eyes? England under Southgate are a dreadful watch.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The problem is that when the forwards make the runs, it’s a defensive midfielder with the ball and there simply not good enough to pick them out.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on and we have two of them.
players seem to lose the basics the moment they put an England shirt on .
The free kicks and corners were dire.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2021)

Soooooooooo.......... The pub Team played pretty well.








So did Scotland.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 18, 2021)

Be interesting to see how Southgate finds any positives in that performance.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 18, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Well that was bloody awful.

It might not be coming home 😂
		
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Your days of reminding us are numbered if we don’t play better than that.
Or get a better manager.


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## HowlingGale (Jun 18, 2021)

Well that was a banana skin. Big Rio has never been more confident about winning a match. 😂  Bawbag.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			He's just keeping his powder dry and his players fit for the latter stages.
		
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His musket has blown up in his face and dropped his powder in the Thames.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 18, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Soooooooooo.......... The pub Team played pretty well.








So did Scotland.

Click to expand...

Well done for not scoring in another game 👏🏼🤣


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## HowlingGale (Jun 18, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Well done for not scoring in another game 👏🏼🤣
		
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Thing is we had the better chances. Should have won. Shame you didn't score against the diddy team.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 18, 2021)

Scotland stepped up and embarrased England.
Put it behind us and move on.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 18, 2021)

What an exciting group now … ! Last thing we really wanted. 
Incidentally defence doesn’t start in your half it starts in the oppositions .. so attacking midfields do defend they just keep the opposition pegged back.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 18, 2021)

HowlingGale said:



			Thing is we had the better chances. Should have won. Shame you didn't score against the diddy team.
		
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Like someone said earlier. This was your cup final. It was just another game for England. 

See you in the next round 😁


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## HowlingGale (Jun 18, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Like someone said earlier. This was your cup final. It was just another game for England. 

See you in the next round 😁
		
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Not really. Big game yes. Cup final no. The cup final is on Tuesday.


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## williamalex1 (Jun 18, 2021)

Sorry guys, but I just can't get this arrogant smug grin of my face .
I just wish we had played my team selection . 
Roll on Croatia


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## davidy233 (Jun 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Nil ....................... but at least we're in the conversation.
		
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## 4LEX (Jun 18, 2021)

Well done to Scotland, deserved the win. Outstanding from start to finish, created 4 clear chances and pushed untill the end.

That's possibly the worst England performance I've seen including Iceland for a decade or so. Southgate is such a cowardly manager he was happy with 1-1 to essentially qualify. If England played France, Belgium or any decent side we would've lost by 3-4 tonight.

England's strength is the midfield and attack yet he plays 6 defensive players. There is no way on earth we will get anywhere close to winning this tournament unless theres a major change in outlook. Always said Southgate was a fraud who got lucky in Russia then bottled the big game, since then England have scraped by on individual quality. You've got a bench with Grealish, Sancho, Rashford and Bellingham and he comes up with that? 

The subs were bizzare. Foden was the most lively player, Rashford isn't great in the air so why take Kane off when you're going to put crosses in towards the end? Grealish was more bothered about flicking his hair and winning free kicks to make a difference. Sterling has been in bad form for 6 months yet he stays on all game when he was going to do nothing? That was car crash management and everything not to do. He's just a FA PR machine in his cheap suit, awful haircut and textbook soundbites. The worst thing to happen is we stumble to the semi finals and he keeps the job for the World Cup.

Having this clown in charge is like putting a learner driver in a Ferrari. No idea


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## davidy233 (Jun 18, 2021)

Tactically excellent, team selection spot on, every guy did his job. Billy Gilmour what a first start for the wee man, if Chelsea are serious about putting him out on loan they are mad.


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## williamalex1 (Jun 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			QUOTE="BiMGuy, post: 2365893, member: 29109"]We need to speed play up not slow it down.
Bellingham for Sterling and anyone for Kane.
I'd have Tripper on for Shaw too.
		
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grealish for Sterling, Bellingham for a def midfielder/ rice.[/QUOTE]
Speed it up not slow it down, sounds like a Eurovision song


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## HowlingGale (Jun 18, 2021)

williamalex1 said:



			Sorry guys, but I just can't get this arrogant smug grin of my face .
I just wish we had played my team selection . 
Roll on Croatia 

Click to expand...

We have a good record against Croatia 🙏


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## Golfmmad (Jun 18, 2021)

Well that was disappointing from England. Too many players were poor.
Phillips was far too negative tonight, most passes went backwards, he has the ability to pick out a forward. 
Kane does not look fit even though he didn't get the service. James didn't get down the line once, Mount was invisible in the 2nd half. As Gary Neville has just said the only England player that played at a decent level was Pickford, he kept us in the game.
I knew it would be a tough game, Scotland are a good side and I hope they qualify.


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## Billysboots (Jun 18, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Well done to Scotland, deserved the win. Outstanding from start to finish, created 4 clear chances and pushed untill the end.

That's possibly the worst England performance I've seen including Iceland for a decade or so. Southgate is such a cowardly manager he was happy with 1-1 to essentially qualify. If England played France, Belgium or any decent side we would've lost by 3-4 tonight.

England's strength is the midfield and attack yet he plays 6 defensive players. There is no way on earth we will get anywhere close to winning this tournament unless theres a major change in outlook. Always said Southgate was a fraud who got lucky in Russia then bottled the big game, since then England have scraped by on individual quality. You've got a bench with Grealish, Sancho, Rashford and Bellingham and he comes up with that? 

The subs were bizzare. Foden was the most lively player, Rashford isn't great in the air so why take Kane off when you're going to put crosses in towards the end? Grealish was more bothered about flicking his hair and winning free kicks to make a difference. Sterling has been in bad form for 6 months yet he stays on all game when he was going to do nothing? That was car crash management and everything not to do. He's just a FA PR machine in his cheap suit, awful haircut and textbook soundbites. The worst thing to happen is we stumble to the semi finals and he keeps the job for the World Cup.

Having this clown in charge is like putting a learner driver in a Ferrari. No idea 

Click to expand...

^^ This. With bells on. Sums it up perfectly.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 18, 2021)

Just seen an amusing post on Twitter that if I post on here will get me severely Fraggered. Hopefully I can avoid that fate by summarising it as an image of the England three lions badge with the words "Footballs Coming Home" above it. The letters O, O, T and B have been crossed out and the letters U, C & K have been added above.


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## davidy233 (Jun 18, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			As Gary Neville has just said the only England player that played at a decent level was Pickford, he kept us in the game.
I knew it would be a tough game, Scotland are a good side and I hope they qualify.
		
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I actually thought Luke Shaw was the one guy who caused us problems


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## SocketRocket (Jun 18, 2021)

The star of the night was Graeme Souness's teeth


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

At least Foden looked like he was trying.
I honestly thought Southgate was going to bring Henderson on at one point.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			The star of the night was Graeme Souness's teeth
		
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Seema Jaswal 👍🏻


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## adam6177 (Jun 18, 2021)

Why does Kane play football these days like a 33 year old trying to get 2 more years out of his career.

Whoever buys him for £100m+ in the summer better be sure what they're getting themselves into.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 18, 2021)

If Southgate's the answer the question can only be what's the Piccadilly line stop between Arnos Grove and Oakwood?


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## Val (Jun 18, 2021)

Ah well, Scotland undefeated in London this year, football and rugby. Not often we can say that 😉

Take a bow lads, no major competition qualification in 23 years and you hold your own and more in one of the favourites back yards.


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## Golfmmad (Jun 18, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			I actually thought Luke Shaw was the one guy who caused us problems
		
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Agreed, he did, just not enough of them! 😢


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## SatchFan (Jun 18, 2021)

The best part of the game - the half time adverts.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Why does Kane play football these days like a 33 year old trying to get 2 more years out of his career.

Whoever buys him for £100m+ in the summer better be sure what they're getting themselves into.
		
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He’s just got the golden boot 🤷‍♂️😂


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## Billysboots (Jun 18, 2021)

For fear of being branded an armchair expert, I’ll say it all the same. The changes should have been Grealish for Sterling, Calvert-Lewin for Kane and Sancho at the expense of one of the two defensive midfielders. At least two of those three changes are not rocket science.

Rashford? Sorry, he’s been woeful for months, and certainly isn’t good enough to play through the middle at this level. And taking Foden off was one of the most bizarre bits of management I’ve seen in a long time.

A good number of my golfing mates gave up on watching England a long time ago, citing the fact that they simply no longer entertain. With the players at their disposal they should be far more inspiring but Southgate simply refuses to release the handbrake. 

I’ll watch the game on Tuesday because it’s tournament football. Otherwise I wouldn’t be remotely interested. Absolutely turgid stuff.


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## 4LEX (Jun 18, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Why does Kane play football these days like a 33 year old trying to get 2 more years out of his career.

Whoever buys him for £100m+ in the summer better be sure what they're getting themselves into.
		
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This is knee jerk. He's had no service whatsoever and is playing in a team more negative than a Mourinho outfit. Show me a striker in Europe over the last 5 years who can match his goals and assists?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			At least Foden looked like he was trying.
I honestly thought Southgate was going to bring Henderson on at one point.
		
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He is not very skillful though......certainly not the hailed new Gazza.
First time I have seen him play mind, perhaps he was having an off day.
Shaw was the only decent player for England IMO.

Very much a game of a team vs a bunch of individuals.
Clarke clearly won the tactical scrap.


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## 4LEX (Jun 18, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			He is not very skillful though......certainly not the hailed new Gazza.
First time I have seen him play mind, perhaps he was having an off day.
Shaw was the only decent player for England IMO.
		
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Foden was the only one who showed touch and quick vision, it was as if the game was below his level. Shaw was useless. A fat lazy waddler who won a few tackles. No way he starts again.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			He is not very skillful though......certainly not the hailed new Gazza.
First time I have seen him play mind, perhaps he was having an off day.
Shaw was the only decent player for England IMO.

Very much a game of a team vs a bunch of individuals.
Clarke clearly won the tactical scrap.
		
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I’ve not seen lots of Foden tbh,but what I have seen he does look class.
Today they all looked average at best.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			For fear of being branded an armchair expert, I’ll say it all the same. The changes should have been Grealish for Sterling, Calvert-Lewin for Kane and Sancho at the expense of one of the two defensive midfielders. At least two of those three changes are not rocket science.

Rashford? Sorry, he’s been woeful for months, and certainly isn’t good enough to play through the middle at this level. And taking Foden off was one of the most bizarre bits of management I’ve seen in a long time.

A good number of my golfing mates gave up on watching England a long time ago, citing the fact that they simply no longer entertain. With the players at their disposal they should be far more inspiring but Southgate simply refuses to release the handbrake.

I’ll watch the game on Tuesday because it’s tournament football. Otherwise I wouldn’t be remotely interested. Absolutely turgid stuff.
		
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Spot on mate


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## pauljames87 (Jun 18, 2021)

Why on earth do you go into a tournament with the aim to play different full backs each game 

Tripper on the right today with Shaw would have been better delivery even tho James put in a shift 

Rice and Phillips? One or other please . Drop mount back to be box to box or bring in Bellingham next to one of those boys.

Sterling? Awful, as he has been most of the year. 

Southgate needs more bottle

Grealish for foden? Almost like for like 

Grealish for sterling, rice or Phillips then your talking about a change of system and game 

Kane doesn't look right but I don't think the service is there

It's like we have one of the best strikers in the world but play in a way to not complement him


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## The Dog. (Jun 18, 2021)

England absolutely abysmal. I think much of their desperate display has to come from their manager who looks like he’d be better suited to a bridle and saddle rather than the managerial dugout.  Red Rum in human form.


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## Beezerk (Jun 18, 2021)

Just got in from my mates house, christ what an awful game, negative football galore 🙈


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## williamalex1 (Jun 18, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			You know you'll go and beat us on Friday night though 🤣
		
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Mibbie aye mibbie Naw , correct , cheers Martyn.


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## Dando (Jun 19, 2021)

Footballs coming home?

there’s more chance of shamima begum coming home


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## pokerjoke (Jun 19, 2021)

Very well played Scotland deserved a win, let’s hope it wasn’t all in vain and you can produce the same performance in the next game.
We were dire and as others have said Southgates substitution of Foden was bizarre clearly our best player on the night.
Thought Mings had a very solid game enough to keep Maguire on the bench.
Pickford one great save and very solid all round.
Sterling 100% should have been taken off,Southgate has so many attacking options at his disposal why he refuses to trust them is baffling.
Obviously now having qualified we need changes and play some of these players and get them into the tournament.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 19, 2021)

Can I just check in case I missed anything, how many did Scotland win by? Cold light of day, still didn't score, only have 1 point, have to beat Croatia or will be going home. For all the euphoria is getting a point in a nil nil against England really the height of ambitions?

Fully agree with all of the comments re England already posted. Gareth, dust your waistcoat off, unshackle the players.

Anyone still suggesting Pickford doesn't deserve his place? Another solid performance in an England shirt.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can I just check in case I missed anything, how many did Scotland win by? Cold light of day, still didn't score, only have 1 point, have to beat Croatia or will be going home. For all the euphoria is getting a point in a nil nil against England really the height of ambitions?

Fully agree with all of the comments re England already posted. Gareth, dust your waistcoat off, unshackle the players.

Anyone still suggesting Pickford doesn't deserve his place? Another solid performance in an England shirt.
		
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How does he do well for England but rubbish for Everton? Better players in front?

Poor game 

Need foden and grealish together with mayb Sancho 

Sterling has had an awful season and it continues


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## adam6177 (Jun 19, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			He’s just got the golden boot 🤷‍♂️😂
		
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So?

Looks like I'm not the only one questioning what's up with him:

http://www.skysports.com/share/12336151


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			How does he do well for England but rubbish for Everton? Better players in front?

Poor game

Need foden and grealish together with mayb Sancho

Sterling has had an awful season and it continues
		
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He’s not rubbish for Everton, he’s been inconsistent, every keeper has bad games and he’s had his fair share, it doesn’t make him rubbish.

As I’ve said many times, if Dean Henderson was fit and playing regular he’d be England’s No1 for me.

Pickford aint the best, but he’s far from rubbish.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jun 19, 2021)

Total dross.

Bin Kane and Stirling now.
Swap Southgate for Howe.
Why do England maangers jst play their own favourite players regardless of how crap they are?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s not rubbish for Everton, he’s been inconsistent, every keeper has bad games and he’s had his fair share, it doesn’t make him rubbish.

As I’ve said many times, if Dean Henderson was fit and playing regular he’d be England’s No1 for me.

Pickford aint the best, but he’s far from rubbish.
		
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Much as I like Henderson , is he just not another Pickford (as he was for Sunderland) facing so many shots (when at Sheffield United) it makes him look better than he is as he is always switched on.. much like fabainski for us and Swansea compared to fabainski for arsenal . As he was expected to do nothing for 70 mins and then just switch on


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 19, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			So?

Looks like I'm not the only one questioning what's up with him:

http://www.skysports.com/share/12336151

Click to expand...

Yep not played well in England’s opening 2 games,but got the golden boot whilst playing for a team that finished 7th.
That’s why someone will pay big money for him 👍🏻


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 19, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			I’ve not seen lots of Foden tbh,but what I have seen he does look class.
Today they all looked average at best.
		
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...or were, at least in part, they were made to _look_ average by a very together and organised bunch of Scottish lads playing some decent football.  That Scotland didn’t score...well at least we didn’t do our usual mess up of last 25yrs - and it’s that which is for me the most pleasing aspect of last nights game. 

Others here will tell you of the same feeling we have experienced watching our RU boys in blue, all the years of potentially great running rugby blunted by an inability to get a move going properly as passes were missed, knocked-on, fumbled or dropped...scrummage, ruck and line-out penalties conceded etc...just ask @Val...why the Calcutta Cup win this year was and remains so special 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿😻


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## rudebhoy (Jun 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Grealish will make things happen. Win a lot of free kicks aswell which would be a chance at least
		
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His biggest asset seems to be the ability to fall over whenever anyone comes near him. Not surprised he is the most "fouled" player in the EPL. Certainly "wins" lots of free kicks.

Anything could happen on Tuesday, all 4 teams have been poor, definitely the weakest group in the comp.


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## Beezerk (Jun 19, 2021)

Scotland get 0-0 draw and the fans go nuts 
Anyway, I backed a draw so it's paid for my bets on the US Open


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## Kellfire (Jun 19, 2021)

Southgate must have some dodgy pictures of the guys that hired him.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

If you look at the formation 4-3-3

Four at the back, 2 def midfielders with mount in the middle, then three up front. It’s like he is playing a diamond with mount at the base. The problem is that when Foden and others were making runs forward Into spaces 2 of the three with the ball were def midfielders. They just could not make the passes that ( unlike when Sterling scored in the first game. If we get through to the last 16 and we should. That formation is going to get tanked big style by one of the better teams.

Either of Phillips or Rice should be dropped. Sterling should be dropped for Grealish and Kane should be rested. He is playing for a move to Burnley at this rate. The England squad is rammed with youthful energy, the problem is even if they do play. Southgate is massively out of his depth in coaching that talent.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yep not played well in England’s opening 2 games,but got the golden boot whilst playing for a team that finished 7th.
That’s why someone will pay big money for him 👍🏻
		
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Just hope it’s not City. Him and Sterling in the same team could have me singing “ country road take me home”.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 19, 2021)

On England versus Scotland | The Spectator (archive.ph) 
That's a cracker.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 19, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Total dross.

Bin Kane and Stirling now.
Swap Southgate for Howe.
Why do England maangers jst play their own favourite players regardless of how crap they are?
		
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I'm really worried this might happen ...

Southgate is useless, but Howe is appealing too!


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## davidy233 (Jun 19, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



On England versus Scotland | The Spectator (archive.ph)
That's a cracker. 

Click to expand...

It's also at least forty years old with the names changed


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## pokerjoke (Jun 19, 2021)

I’ve been saying all along England won’t win or go far because they are knackered from a long season.
I might be proved wrong only time will tell.
I bet you there was not one England supporter who couldn’t see Kane was leggy or Sterling however long he stayed out there he was not going to get any better.
Where was Sancho? Once Foden was taken off( another baffling decision) he’s being touted at £120 million but can’t get a run out( although he will next game I’m sure.
Why bring Maguire and Henderson at all? we could have had Lingard and JWP to create.


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## chrisd (Jun 19, 2021)

This competition is a marathon not a sprint!

We did enough by not losing and qualifying for the last 16 is really the only important matter. Scotland will always try harder than us in a Scotland  v England match as it means more to them. 

Generally the teams that do best in these tournaments improve as the competition moves on and hopefully the best England team will become obvious and we stay relatively injury free

If Scotland have had their "cup final" good luck to them, they played better than us but they are NOT a better team


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## davidy233 (Jun 19, 2021)

Traditionally Scotland don't get out of the group and England get papped out by the first decent team they play - both scenarios are still likely - but the whole point of being a football fan is hoping your team exceed expectations.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 19, 2021)

Lest we forget folks - we achieved our ambition last night (or at least the manager's ambition)...we didn't lose.

Set up not to lose and hope for a win! Let's hope this is Southgate's last tournament.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 19, 2021)

I wonder what the players think in all this.
Do they just accept the blandness of selection or speak out in team meetings.
They must basically have the same opinion as the fans or do they?
There is only one man in the country that thinks two holding midfielders is a good idea.
Sterling should start.
Foden was the worst player so sub him.
Kane should start but he looks less than 100%
Rashford is better than DCL.
The list is longer but it’s GS and Unfortunatly he makes these decisions.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 19, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Lest we forget folks - we achieved our ambition last night (or at least the manager's ambition)...we didn't lose.

Set up not to lose and hope for a win! Let's hope this is Southgate's last tournament.
		
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Problem with that is if it is his last we only have 18 months to set up for the next one

We have so much talent but insist on sticking with names 

He said when we took over players would be picked on form not names 

In that case Henderson shouldnt be there. Hasn't played since Feb. Out of form

Sterling , poor season , out of form

Tripper , wins league, in form. Played out of position then dropped 

Lingard, wardprowse .. both in Great form. Left at home 

Sounds like every other England manager to me


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## GreiginFife (Jun 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can I just check in case I missed anything, how many did Scotland win by? Cold light of day, still didn't score, only have 1 point, have to beat Croatia or will be going home. For all the euphoria *is getting a point in a nil nil against England really the height of ambitions*?

Fully agree with all of the comments re England already posted. Gareth, dust your waistcoat off, unshackle the players.

Anyone still suggesting Pickford doesn't deserve his place? Another solid performance in an England shirt.
		
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When you have diddies like Stephen O'Donnell and Grant Hanley in your back line alongside a boy thats a half decent midfielder but not a defender, then yes. Yes, it is.


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## MadAdey (Jun 19, 2021)

It was painful to watch. I would love to know how many passes were made made in a backwards direction. Finally when Grealish came on we had someone who was at least trying to get at the Scottish defence and give it a go. HOw the hell did we have 60% possesion and only mange 9 attempts on goal and one on target? Scotland had 40% and managed 11 shots and 2 on target.


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## Kellfire (Jun 19, 2021)

chrisd said:



			This competition is a marathon not a sprint!

We did enough by not losing and qualifying for the last 16 is really the only important matter. Scotland will always try harder than us in a Scotland  v England match as it means more to them.

Generally the teams that do best in these tournaments improve as the competition moves on and hopefully the best England team will become obvious and we stay relatively injury free

If Scotland have had their "cup final" good luck to them, they played better than us but they are NOT a better team
		
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How many pints of BITTER did you have last night?


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## MadAdey (Jun 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I’ve been saying all along England won’t win or go far because they are knackered from a long season.
I might be proved wrong only time will tell.
I bet you there was not one England supporter who couldn’t see Kane was leggy or Sterling however long he stayed out there he was not going to get any better.
Where was Sancho? Once Foden was taken off( another baffling decision) he’s being touted at £120 million but can’t get a run out( although he will next game I’m sure.
Why bring Maguire and Henderson at all? we could have had Lingard and JWP to create.
		
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Isn't this the same old excuse we hear all the time for England...........It has been a long season. Other teams manage to turn up and play after a long season.


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## nickjdavis (Jun 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Like someone said earlier. This was your cup final. It was just another game for England.

See you in the next round 😁
		
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and thats the problem with England....the modern crop of players dont "get it".....they've not a clue about what the oldest International football fixture actually means. The passion and desire that the Scots bring to the game was there for all to see from the moment the anthems were played. The Scots were up for it, the Engliish didn't realise that they would have to work so much harder....the moment you start slowly it is really difficult to drag the momentum upwards, you give the opposition hope, which fuels their desire further, they work harder, show more commitment which in turn forces you to up your game.

Far to many players in white shirts natural instinct last night was to look backwards rather than forwards. What Rice is doing on an international pitch I really dont know. Kane looks jaded and like someones filled his boots with concrete. Sterling couldnt trap a bag of sand last night. There was no connection between the defence, midfield and attack...too far apart and unable to support each other.

It would be unfair on Scotland to just say that they outworked England. In truth they played the better football, looked like they had a plan, created the best opportunities. Should in all honesty have won the game. Well done to them. Don't think it will be enough mind...I suspect Croatia will beat them and England will play out a turgid draw with Czech Rep to finish second and avoid Germany/France/Portugal.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 19, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			When you have diddies like Stephen O'Donnell and Grant Hanley in your back line alongside a boy thats a half decent midfielder but not a defender, then yes. Yes, it is.
		
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That imo is why DCL should have come on for Kane .
Throw a few crosses in and see what happens.
Not pretty but what we were doing was not working .


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## chrisd (Jun 19, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			How many pints of BITTER did you have last night? 

Click to expand...

Just a dose of reality, that was all that was needed!


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## stefanovic (Jun 19, 2021)

Just like the last Euro's when England lost to Iceland.
The players do not want to be there. They would prefer to be in Ibiza (travel permitting).
'Gaffer, can you get me out of the England game' as claimed by one Prem manager.
No pride, no passion, no hope.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 19, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			Isn't this the same old excuse we hear all the time for England...........It has been a long season. Other teams manage to turn up and play after a long season.
		
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Maybe 
However our game is played quicker than any other league.
More games higher intensity 
Take Kane for example he honestly looks shot,he’s not sharp,he’s definitely not 100% fit but it seems he’s un droppable.
I would rest him next game and maybe bring him back.
However if CL scores 2 or 3 then maybe not.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jun 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Maybe
However our game is played quicker than any other league.
More games higher intensity
Take Kane for example he honestly looks shot,he’s not sharp,he’s definitely not 100% fit but it seems he’s un droppable.
I would rest him next game and maybe bring him back.
However if CL scores 2 or 3 then maybe not.
		
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The ironic thing is though that the Italians who traditionally play a slow solid game, score then shut up shop are playing football taken form the City/Liverpool playbooks and are managed by Mancini whos had time here. If they can play that way, why can't our manager see the benefit of it or is it only the foriegn managers who can see it's an attractive and effective way to play (Guadiola/Klopp/Mancini etc)?
Just because our players are paid so much and are probably the highest earners in Europe doesn't make them the best.


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## MadAdey (Jun 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Maybe
However our game is played quicker than any other league.
More games higher intensity
Take Kane for example he honestly looks shot,he’s not sharp,he’s definitely not 100% fit but it seems he’s un droppable.
I would rest him next game and maybe bring him back.
However if CL scores 2 or 3 then maybe not.
		
Click to expand...

IS it that he is not fit, or just fed up with never getting any supply. Together with Son they play quickly and move it fast between them. With England it is just so slow from going from back to front. They win the ball back and do not move it forward giving the other team a chacne to get the defence set, instead of cathing them out of position. Kane is having to drop back into midfield to try and get a touch, instead of being up top recieving the ball for quick inter changes with Sterling. Worse thing is he is dropping into the area Mount plays in, causing it to get crowded.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If you look at the formation 4-3-3

Four at the back, 2 def midfielders with mount in the middle, then three up front. It’s like he is playing a diamond with mount at the base. The problem is that when Foden and others were making runs forward Into spaces 2 of the three with the ball were def midfielders. They just could not make the passes that ( unlike when Sterling scored in the first game. If we get through to the last 16 and we should. That formation is going to get tanked big style by one of the better teams.

Either of Phillips or Rice should be dropped. Sterling should be dropped for Grealish and Kane should be rested. He is playing for a move to Burnley at this rate. The England squad is rammed with youthful energy, the problem is even if they do play. Southgate is massively out of his depth in coaching that talent.
		
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But England weren't playing 433

It was either 4141 or 4231

I think we needed to play with a back 3 and push everything forward and have 2 up against the 3 central defenders. 

The main problem last night was the complete lack of movement up front. Which against a team playing 541 is essential. Its hard to play forward if there is nothing to play forward to.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 19, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			The ironic thing is though that the Italians who traditionally play a slow solid game, score then shut up shop are playing football taken form the City/Liverpool playbooks and are managed by Mancini whos had time here. If they can play that way, why can't our manager see the benefit of it or is it only the foriegn managers who can see it's an attractive and effective way to play (Guadiola/Klopp/Mancini etc)?
Just because our players are paid so much and are probably the highest earners in Europe doesn't make them the best.
		
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Never said are players are the best.
The most knackered.
I also agree Southgate is more scared to lose than play expansive football.
In the knockout stages it might come down to he has to attack at some stage.


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## MadAdey (Jun 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Never said are players are the best.
The most knackered.
I also agree Southgate is more scared to lose than play expansive football.
In the knockout stages it might come down to he has to attack at some stage.
		
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Me personally would prefer to see England give it a go and loose than what we saw yesterday. Playing like that is not going to get us through the next round. Watching England yesterday reminded me of watching LIverpool at times last year. Would dominate possession, but not able to find a way of breaking the opposition down.


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## fundy (Jun 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			But England weren't playing 433

It was either 4141 or 4231

I think we needed to play with a back 3 and push everything forward and have 2 up against the 3 central defenders. 

The main problem last night was the complete lack of movement up front. Which against a team playing 541 is essential. Its hard to play forward if there is nothing to play forward to.
		
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More like 631 for large parts! the 2 in midfield are fine if it frees up the full backs to get much further forward but Southgate seems to want a flat back 4 and the 2 holding, cant have both for me, especially as the players appear to have no freedom to operate outside the structure. If the only way to get the width further up the pitch is to play 3 at the back then he should look to go that route in the KO stages imo.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			More like 631 for large parts! the 2 in midfield are fine if it frees up the full backs to get much further forward but Southgate seems to want a flat back 4 and the 2 holding, cant have both for me, especially as the players appear to have no freedom to operate outside the structure. If the only way to get the width further up the pitch is to play 3 at the back then he should look to go that route in the KO stages imo.
		
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That is why we need Walker and Tripper. Even if Trippier plays on the left. Which isn't a problem in my opinion.


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## chrisd (Jun 19, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			IS it that he is not fit, or just fed up with never getting any supply. Together with Son they play quickly and move it fast between them. With England it is just so slow from going from back to front. They win the ball back and do not move it forward giving the other team a chacne to get the defence set, instead of cathing them out of position. Kane is having to drop back into midfield to try and get a touch, instead of being up top recieving the ball for quick inter changes with Sterling. Worse thing is he is dropping into the area Mount plays in, causing it to get crowded.
		
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I agree. We are moving the ball too slowly which give defences time to recover, we would rather pass from the half way line to the goalkeeper rather than try a through ball just in case we give possession away. I get that the opposition can't score if they can't get the ball but we can't score either if we dont attack.i also don't see why Foden was taken off as he was our most lively forward and Stirling was doing nothing.


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## fundy (Jun 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			That is why we need Walker and Tripper. Even if Trippier plays on the left. Which isn't a problem in my opinion.
		
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think its an instruction problem too rather than just personnel tbh! would give chilwell a go on the left and trippier on the right if it was me


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

It’s amusing the level of excuses across social media today but it’s time the media should say it how it is 

England who are supposed to be one of the favourites and ranked 4th in the World played against the 3rd lowest in the competition and it was on home soil and they were set up to not lose - pathetic really

Once again all hype and no substance 

The squad they have should be playing so much better with so many bright attacking flair players - the sort of players that have helped the likes of France , Holland etc do well over the years , the sort of players England havent ever had but now they arrive they employ a manager who hasnt the first clue what to do with them 

He plays a flat back four with 2 defensive midfielders sat in front - fine but then the fullbacks who should have a license to go forward because of the two sitting players very rarely venture past the halfway line, the “attacking mid” drops into the centre more because the centre forward spends all game dropping deep - that ends up leaving two “wider” players isolate and they then start to drop deeper as well. It’s shocking tactics and set up - as well as playing players who have struggled a lot recently whilst the form players sit and bench warm , glad TAA isn’t there , he would be so frustrated to have the ball and then look and see no England player in the box to deliver the ball too. 

And then during the actual game the players just play on the defensive , allow Scotland to dictate the game and a young CM who still doesn’t play regualry is allowed to dominate the middle of the park. There was a stat that a player for Slovakia has more shots on target than England - he has also only played as a substitute 😂. Also when looking to make a change early he brings off one of the brighter players and then puts on someone who should be allowed to roam is then put out wide - only an excellent performance from Pickford saved England being embarrassed . Look at the way Adams played - why was Kane not showing the same level of passion and desire , he should also give up the armband - awful currently 

England have done enough to qualify but they are going to get a battering from a top team when they face them 

Against Czech Rep it should be time to unleash the players 

Pickford 

James 
Mings 
Stones 
Chilwell

Rice/Henderson 
Mount 
Grealish 

Foden
DCL
Sancho

Stop playing to ensure they don’t concede and take the game to the opposition. The recent World Cup masked how poor Southgate is as a top level manager. Seen Howe mentioned- at least he plays attacking football and has done well at the top level - Southgate was poor as a Prem manager as well and got very lucky to get the England job. Behind all the hype of “coming home” and waistcoat - it’s the same old overhyped England when they should really be dangerous in this competition because of the players they have.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 19, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			It was painful to watch. I would love to know how many passes were made made in a backwards direction. Finally when Grealish came on we had someone who was at least trying to get at the Scottish defence and give it a go. HOw the hell did we have 60% possesion and only mange 9 attempts on goal and one on target? Scotland had 40% and managed 11 shots and 2 on target.
		
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That is the way Clarke sets up his teams.
Very effective way of playing, worked well at Kilmarnock in the SPL.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2021)

One rubbish performance against a Team that stepped up their game does not mean the end of the world.

We’ve seen World Cup Winners lose group matches on the way to winning the comp.

We’re still in it, possibly the best time to have our worst performance if we were going to have one.

We will get better and on “our” day we can compete with anyone, let’s hope we do.

On the other side, if we don’t get out the group I believe Southgate will walk.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jun 19, 2021)

I cant help but feel we have so many players that look "World class" playing for their clubs that are full of foriegn talent that look bang average when playing with a full team of English. Perhaps we need to accept it's the foriegn talent that makes our overpaid average joes look so good and stop thinking we can beat the World.
Stirling is a prime example, looks nothing without Suerez or De Bruyne to feed him.


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## pendodave (Jun 19, 2021)

Plenty of times we've started terribly and been forced by injury or necessity to change things up and get better. The maradonna defeat and crying gazza tournaments were both awful to start with. The Rossi Italians had 3 draws in the group iirc.
Not to say we won't still be sh*#@ going forward, but it's definitely possible that we'll improve...


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## MadAdey (Jun 19, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That is the way Clarke sets up his teams.
Very effective way of playing, worked well at Kilmarnock in the SPL.
		
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I’m not criticizing them, they had a game plan and it worked.


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## Beezerk (Jun 19, 2021)

Alle Hungary


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## Swinglowandslow (Jun 19, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Plenty of times we've started terribly and been forced by injury or necessity to change things up and get better. The maradonna defeat and crying gazza tournaments were both awful to start with. The Rossi Italians had 3 draws in the group iirc.
Not to say we won't still be sh*#@ going forward, but it's definitely possible that we'll improve...
		
Click to expand...

Too many letters in that last sentence....remove ' ly..possible'
Cos we can't get worse😀


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Alle Hungary 

Click to expand...

Doing it nice and simple , waiting for France to trip themselves up going forward then just bursting forward at pace , superb from Hungary at the moment with France waiting for Mbappe to do something - this is also the Premier League Pogba playing


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## Billysboots (Jun 19, 2021)

I love it that people are adopting a positive “it’s a marathon, not a sprint” approach to England’s involvement in this tournament, but I can’t help feeling there’s an element of rose tinted glass wearing involved.

I’d love to see England go deep into this tournament, but the realist in me has seen enough in recent years to know that, as soon as we come up against decent opposition, we’ll come unstuck. The run to the WC semis in 2018 was fortuitous at best, where we flattered to deceive and were made to look what we are when we played sides with any class at all - distinctly ordinary.

I’ve seen nothing in the three years since to lift my mood. As per normal, we cruise through qualifying, and this time have been handed a group which, given the attacking talent available in an around the squad, we should be winning at a canter. Instead we huff and puff against a very average Croatia, and were truly awful last night.

Sancho and Bellingham haven’t had a kick, we play two defensive midfielders against a Scotland side struggling to score, our substitutions have been baffling and some key players are horribly out of form, and yet seem to be preferred over those who aren’t.

The FIFA world rankings are codswallop. There is no way on god’s earth we are the 4th best side in the world, and it’s about time we stopped expecting the side to perform as though we are.

I had a few quid at 11/1 on England not getting out of the group. I’m starting to think I may cover all my Euro bets by bedtime on Tuesday.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1406190875118555138
😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Jun 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s amusing the level of excuses across social media today but it’s time the media should say it how it is

England who are supposed to be one of the favourites and ranked 4th in the World played against the 3rd lowest in the competition and it was on home soil and they were set up to not lose - pathetic really

Once again all hype and no substance

The squad they have should be playing so much better with so many bright attacking flair players - the sort of players that have helped the likes of France , Holland etc do well over the years , the sort of players England havent ever had but now they arrive they employ a manager who hasnt the first clue what to do with them

He plays a flat back four with 2 defensive midfielders sat in front - fine but then the fullbacks who should have a license to go forward because of the two sitting players very rarely venture past the halfway line, the “attacking mid” drops into the centre more because the centre forward spends all game dropping deep - that ends up leaving two “wider” players isolate and they then start to drop deeper as well. It’s shocking tactics and set up - as well as playing players who have struggled a lot recently whilst the form players sit and bench warm , glad TAA isn’t there , he would be so frustrated to have the ball and then look and see no England player in the box to deliver the ball too.

And then during the actual game the players just play on the defensive , allow Scotland to dictate the game and a young CM who still doesn’t play regualry is allowed to dominate the middle of the park. There was a stat that a player for Slovakia has more shots on target than England - he has also only played as a substitute 😂. Also when looking to make a change early he brings off one of the brighter players and then puts on someone who should be allowed to roam is then put out wide - only an excellent performance from Pickford saved England being embarrassed . Look at the way Adams played - why was Kane not showing the same level of passion and desire , he should also give up the armband - awful currently

England have done enough to qualify but they are going to get a battering from a top team when they face them

Against Czech Rep it should be time to unleash the players

Pickford

James
Mings
Stones
Chilwell

Rice/Henderson
Mount
Grealish

Foden
DCL
Sancho

Stop playing to ensure they don’t concede and take the game to the opposition. The recent World Cup masked how poor Southgate is as a top level manager. Seen Howe mentioned- at least he plays attacking football and has done well at the top level - Southgate was poor as a Prem manager as well and got very lucky to get the England job. Behind all the hype of “coming home” and waistcoat - it’s the same old overhyped England when they should really be dangerous in this competition because of the players they have.
		
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So what exactly has Phillips (our best player against Croatia) done wrong to be dropped for Henderson? Who's not played in months apart from missing a pen he shouldn't have taken? Wrong shirt?


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## paddyc (Jun 19, 2021)

If England win group they play either France Portugal or Germany?
finish  2nd they play Spain Sweden or Slovakia Poland?
if that's right 2nd looks the better option. Gareth knows what hes doing😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So what exactly has Phillips (our best player against Croatia) done wrong to be dropped for Henderson? Who's not played in months apart from missing a pen he shouldn't have taken? Wrong shirt?
		
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So out of all that your only response is about that  I think they should play Henderson -

And why would do i believe he should play - he is better than both Rice and Phillips , he would add much needed leadership , expirience, drive , energy , passion , desire along with his quality on and off the ball - everything he has shown for his club over the past 36 months is everything that is missing , and if he is deemed not fit enough then put Bellingham there , Rice is poor and Phillips lacks on the ball


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I love it that people are adopting a positive “it’s a marathon, not a sprint” approach to England’s involvement in this tournament, but I can’t help feeling there’s an element of rose tinted glass wearing involved.

I’d love to see England go deep into this tournament, but the realist in me has seen enough in recent years to know that, as soon as we come up against decent opposition, we’ll come unstuck. The run to the WC semis in 2018 was fortuitous at best, where we flattered to deceive and were made to look what we are when we played sides with any class at all - distinctly ordinary.

I’ve seen nothing in the three years since to lift my mood. As per normal, we cruise through qualifying, and this time have been handed a group which, given the attacking talent available in an around the squad, we should be winning at a canter. Instead we huff and puff against a very average Croatia, and were truly awful last night.

Sancho and Bellingham haven’t had a kick, we play two defensive midfielders against a Scotland side struggling to score, our substitutions have been baffling and some key players are horribly out of form, and yet seem to be preferred over those who aren’t.

The FIFA world rankings are codswallop. There is no way on god’s earth we are the 4th best side in the world, and it’s about time we stopped expecting the side to perform as though we are.

I had a few quid at 11/1 on England not getting out of the group. I’m starting to think I may cover all my Euro bets by bedtime on Tuesday.
		
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Maybe it’s somewhere in the middle, you can’t say we cruise through qualifying and were fortuitous at best in 2018 and then look distincly ordinary against against class and then dismiss that same class as very average!

Maybe as we’ve moved forward Croatia have gone backwards or maybe it looked that way due to our performance.

We know from experience anything can happen in a Derby, teams flying high in the League can lose to teams fighting relegation, plenty of upsets in FA Cups etc.

I agree we are not the finished article and a long way off it, but I’d also ask if it’s really as bad as some are making out based on one awful game?


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## Billysboots (Jun 19, 2021)

paddyc said:



			If England win group they play either France Portugal or Germany?
finish  2nd they play Spain Sweden or Slovakia Poland?
if that's right 2nd looks the better option. Gareth knows what hes doing😉
		
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England aren’t good enough to manufacture results.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

For the sake of arguement, let’s just say we have four points and should get through blah de blah.

But do we see any improvement in England under Southgate in the time he has had them. Do we know what his formation is, style of play. I honestly don’t think he knows himself. The previous game Trippier at left back 😳
 With the attacking prowess we have at our disposal yesterday we had one attempt on target. One. That simple statistic alone should get Southgate the sack. The closest we came to scoring was a defenders header 😳
Southgate said “ we struggled to break an organised team down”. He had no idea of how to change it. Changing an out of form striker for and out of position striker is Not changing it, esp when there is better form players on the bench. Sterling starting when he has struggled at City 😳 The FA should already be looking for the next manager although at the moment the cupboard looks a bit bare.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			England aren’t good enough to manufacture results.
		
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No one has mentioned who England could face if they finish 3rd, Spain, Belgium or Holland if they win there groups. 😳😖


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## pauljames87 (Jun 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So out of all that your only response is about that  I think they should play Henderson -

And why would do i believe he should play - he is better than both Rice and Phillips , he would add much needed leadership , expirience, drive , energy , passion , desire along with his quality on and off the ball - everything he has shown for his club over the past 36 months is everything that is missing , and if he is deemed not fit enough then put Bellingham there , Rice is poor and Phillips lacks on the ball
		
Click to expand...

But this season what has he done to deserve his place in the team? Nothing.

Rice for England is given the unfashionable job of just sitting back protecting the defence. Which he must be doing well we haven't let in a goal .. he was given licence to roam last 5 mins and caused chaos in the box.

Henderson doesn't deserve to displace either. Bellingham deserves it more than he does.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			But this season what has he done to deserve his place in the team? Nothing.

Rice for England is given the unfashionable job of just sitting back protecting the defence. Which he must be doing well we haven't let in a goal .. he was given licence to roam last 5 mins and caused chaos in the box.

Henderson doesn't deserve to displace either. Bellingham deserves it more than he does.
		
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Rice offers nothing on the ball , there were two protecting the back plus the two full backs sitting - Henderson and Bellingham can also protect the back four but also offer more going forward on the ball , against Scotland Gilmour dominated that midfield , being satisfied with not conceding is the sort of attitude the manager has. We missed Henderson when he wasn’t fit and right now England miss him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

Well this is a slightly different German team - so much more brighter and quicker on the ball as well as impressive closing down. This could be a cracker

That is an outstanding counter attack goal


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## pauljames87 (Jun 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Rice offers nothing on the ball , there were two protecting the back plus the two full backs sitting - Henderson and Bellingham can also protect the back four but also offer more going forward on the ball , against Scotland Gilmour dominated that midfield , being satisfied with not conceding is the sort of attitude the manager has. We missed Henderson when he wasn’t fit and right now England miss him.
		
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Rice offers plenty on the ball but isn't instructed to do so. Watch him play for club and then form a proper opinion 

Or better still stick to hockey and do us all a favour 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Rice offers plenty on the ball but isn't instructed to do so. Watch him play for club and then form a proper opinion

*Or better still stick to hockey and do us all a favour *👍
		
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Are you incapable of just offering an opposing opinion without insulting the poster ?

Perfect example of why two long standing members of the forum have deleted their accounts and why others are thinking of it or have stopped posting


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## pauljames87 (Jun 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you incapable of just offering an opposing opinion without insulting the poster ?

Perfect example of why two long standing members of the forum have deleted their accounts and why others are thinking of it or have stopped posting
		
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Once you leave I'm sure many will return 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

Well that’s a turn around in the game - two OG’s - nothing better than watching Pepe play act all over the place but losing 😂😂


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## davidy233 (Jun 19, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			When you have diddies like Stephen O'Donnell and Grant Hanley in your back line alongside a boy thats a half decent midfielder but not a defender, then yes. Yes, it is.
		
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Three of the best players on the pitch


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## BiMGuy (Jun 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you incapable of just offering an opposing opinion without insulting the poster ?
		
Click to expand...

You can't mention that Rice really isn't that good on here without some taking offence. But he's been ok for England. Nothing more. 

Henderson doesn't offer much either, and hasn't been great for Liverpool when not injured this season. 

I'd like to see a change of style and play, something like 3 5 2 to give more options centrally up front in the next game. However, I'd be very surprised if Southgate changes anything.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			You can't mention that Rice really isn't that good on here without some taking offence. But he's been ok for England. Nothing more.

Henderson doesn't offer much either, and hasn't been great for Liverpool when not injured this season.

I'd like to see a change of style and play, something like 3 5 2 to give more options centrally up front in the next game. However, I'd be very surprised if Southgate changes anything.
		
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People shouldn’t ever “take offence” all because someone doesn’t rate a footballer the same as others , any time I have seen Rice I just haven’t seen what all the hype is about - seems a decent player but nothing more , same level as Dier.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			You can't mention that Rice really isn't that good on here without some taking offence. But he's been ok for England. Nothing more.

Henderson doesn't offer much either, and hasn't been great for Liverpool when not injured this season.

I'd like to see a change of style and play, something like 3 5 2 to give more options centrally up front in the next game. However, I'd be very surprised if Southgate changes anything.
		
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Hard to be more than ok when shackled with pure defensive role 

He gave Philips the licence to roam more rather than interchanging like he does at club level 

He is better in a two ie him and mount or in a 3 with Phillips and him swapping 

He played literally as a 3rd CB to allow the full backs forward

I mean it's an ok tactic but needed against Scotland?


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## Beedee (Jun 19, 2021)

Sorry if this has been discussed before and I've missed it, but why is VAR working so well in the Euros?  I haven't watched every match but there's been hardly any interruptions and I haven't heard of any contentious decisions.  Have they changed the VAR rules?  Or are the on-field referees not making as many mistakes?  Or are the VAR refs just deciding not to stick their noses in unless it's an obvious one?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			People shouldn’t ever “take offence” all because someone doesn’t rate a footballer the same as others , any time I have seen Rice I just haven’t seen what all the hype is about - seems a decent player but nothing more , same level as Dier.
		
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Maybe because you watch more football than hockey and fail to notice ability 😂


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## pauljames87 (Jun 19, 2021)

Beedee said:



			Sorry if this has been discussed before and I've missed it, but why is VAR working so well in the Euros?  I haven't watched every match but there's been hardly any interruptions and I haven't heard of any contentious decisions.  Have they changed the VAR rules?  Or are the on-field referees not making as many mistakes?  Or are the VAR refs just deciding not to stick their noses in unless it's an obvious one?
		
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Better officials on end


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## fundy (Jun 19, 2021)

This "Own Goal" fella looks like he may have the golden boot locked up in the group stages


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			For the sake of arguement, let’s just say we have four points and should get through blah de blah.

But do we see any improvement in England under Southgate in the time he has had them. Do we know what his formation is, style of play. I honestly don’t think he knows himself. The previous game Trippier at left back 😳
With the attacking prowess we have at our disposal yesterday we had one attempt on target. One. *That simple statistic alone should get Southgate the sack*. The closest we came to scoring was a defenders header 😳
Southgate said “ we struggled to break an organised team down”. He had no idea of how to change it. Changing an out of form striker for and out of position striker is Not changing it, esp when there is better form players on the bench. Sterling starting when he has struggled at City 😳 The FA should already be looking for the next manager although at the moment the cupboard looks a bit bare.
		
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Did you want Pep getting the sack after City started so badly last season?

Currently Southgate has been more succesful than plenty of previous England managers so to say he should be sacked as per the bit in bold is daft.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			This "Own Goal" fella looks like he may have the golden boot locked up in the group stages 

Click to expand...

Germany cruising now - Pepe and Ronaldo losing , always enjoyable 😂


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## Beezerk (Jun 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Did you want Pep getting the sack after City started so badly last season?

Currently Southgate has been more succesful than plenty of previous England managers so to say he should be sacked as per the bit in bold is daft.
		
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I've just seen one of my customers at the driving range, he said he'd like Pep as England manager.
Decent shout in fairness but he'd never do it.


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## larmen (Jun 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Germany cruising now - Pepe and Ronaldo losing , always enjoyable 😂
		
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I find it hard to think of a player I find more disgusting than Pepe


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## BiMGuy (Jun 19, 2021)

Germany have arrived then!


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## rudebhoy (Jun 19, 2021)

4-2, some game this.


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## Piece (Jun 19, 2021)

Good game this one


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I've just seen one of my customers at the driving range, he said he'd like Pep as England manager.
Decent shout in fairness but he'd never do it.
		
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Tashy will want him out if we don’t win every game 4-0.😂😂


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## fundy (Jun 19, 2021)

at HT they proclaimed it game of the tournament, felt a bit early to call it that for me, turns out they were right


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 19, 2021)

paddyc said:



			If England win group they play either France Portugal or Germany?
finish  2nd they play Spain Sweden or Slovakia Poland?
if that's right 2nd looks the better option. Gareth knows what hes doing😉
		
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Who do they play if they finish 3rd ?


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## pokerjoke (Jun 19, 2021)

larmen said:



			I find it hard to think of a player I find more disgusting than Pepe
		
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Suarez


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## Billysboots (Jun 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Suarez
		
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Good call.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Once you leave I'm sure many will return 👍
		
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Lmao


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## pokerjoke (Jun 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Hard to be more than ok when shackled with pure defensive role 

He gave Philips the licence to roam more rather than interchanging like he does at club level 

Rice has got an engine it doesn’t look like Southgate is letting him out of first gear,unfortunately he’s being wasted.
He is better in a two ie him and mount or in a 3 with Phillips and him swapping 

He played literally as a 3rd CB to allow the full backs forward

I mean it's an ok tactic but needed against Scotland?
		
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## larmen (Jun 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Suarez
		
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He clearly makes the scum 11 but isn’t captain material.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 19, 2021)

larmen said:



			He clearly makes the scum 11 but isn’t captain material.
		
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Ramos alongside Pepe in defence. Suarez up front. Joey Barton in midfield.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Ramos alongside Pepe in defence. Suarez up front. Joey Barton in midfield.
		
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Roy Kene as captain


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Did you want Pep getting the sack after City started so badly last season?

Currently Southgate has been more succesful than plenty of previous England managers so to say he should be sacked as per the bit in bold is daft.
		
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pauldj42 said:



*Did you want Pep getting the sack after City started so badly last season?*

Currently Southgate has been more succesful than plenty of previous England managers so to say he should be sacked as per the bit in bold is daft.
		
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Is that really a serious question Paul?

Pep plays attractive winning football in Spain,Germany and England. He is a serial winner. Then you ask if I wanted him sacking after a bad six weeks.

Theres two phrases that spring to mind when talking about football.

The beautiful game.
Well under Southgate, it’s pig ugly.

Footballs coming home.
If it’s played in a pig ugly way alla southgates way, I prefer it to stay on mainland Europe.

re what Beezerk said re Pep, I honestly would not mind if he jacked in with City and managed England.

At this moment in time the whole of England needs a lift re what’s happened re Covid etc. Southgate is helping to make this country even more depressing.

I know LP has liked me post but even Klopp, and a few others would get a hell of a lot more out of that squad. What that England team Is missing is passion.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Tashy will want him out if we don’t win every game 4-0.😂😂
		
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serious question Paul, are you happy with the style of play under Southgate.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Ramos alongside Pepe in defence. Suarez up front. Joey Barton in midfield.
		
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Joey Bartons best ever game for City was when he was in a QPR shirt. He was a horrible odious little ( insert own word). He has carried that into his managerial career. 🤔


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



*But England weren't playing 433

It was either 4141 or 4231*

I think we needed to play with a back 3 and push everything forward and have 2 up against the 3 central defenders.

The main problem last night was the complete lack of movement up front. Which against a team playing 541 is essential. Its hard to play forward if there is nothing to play forward to.
		
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But that’s me point, what exactly was it 😳 433, 4141, and with 2 defensive midfielders I don’t know how you came to that and 4231.
Come what may, none of them worked and that’s down to the manager.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Is that really a serious question Paul?

Pep plays attractive winning football in Spain,Germany and England. He is a serial winner. Then you ask if I wanted him sacking after a bad six weeks.

Theres two phrases that spring to mind when talking about football.

The beautiful game.
Well under Southgate, it’s pig ugly.

Footballs coming home.
If it’s played in a pig ugly way alla southgates way, I prefer it to stay on mainland Europe.

re what Beezerk said re Pep, I honestly would not mind if he jacked in with City and managed England.

At this moment in time the whole of England needs a lift re what’s happened re Covid etc. Southgate is helping to make this country even more depressing.

I know LP has liked me post but even Klopp, and a few others would get a hell of a lot more out of that squad. What that England team Is missing is passion.
		
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You wanted Southgate sacked after 1 performance, yes it was shocking, yes we were awful, but it’s 1 performance.

Judge him after the tournament, he got us to the WC Semi-Final, got no credit for it, apparently it was all luck.

He got us through qualifying with games to spare, got no credit for it, apparently it was all luck.

We strolled past Croatia in the 1st game quite easily, Croatia are apparently weak now.

The covid comment is ridiculous!

The only people who seem the most upset with Southgate are those who expected him to change the way he plays and sets teams up, quite naive to be honest.
He will never play the flair players unshackled, he’ll play the solid straight forward players and play defensively.

As for passion, please, they should be able to show passion and desire regardless of who the manager is!

The style of play is shocking, but he’s the manager, so I hope he proves us all wrong in this tournament because it aint going to change during it and he isn’t going to be sacked during it.


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## nickjdavis (Jun 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			As for passion, please, they should be able to show passion and desire regardless of who the manager is!

.
		
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In an ideal world yes but a lot depends on how the manager has set his players expectations and prepared them for the game.

I can imagine GS saying something like "for Scotland this is a big game, don't get involved, don't get caught up in the passion, stay calm and treat it like any other game"....20 minutes in and the game is passing most of the England team by because they've not been "at it" from the off.

Unfortunately the annual England - Scotland game gets played so rarely that most folks south of the border have forgotten what it means.....next to the FA Cup Final it was once the biggest game in the domestic sporting calendar....the players today just don't realise just HOW MUCH it means and what levels of commitment are needed....if the manager has a wishy washy approach then we are guaranteed a wishy washy performance.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



*You wanted Southgate sacked after 1 performance,* yes it was shocking, yes we were awful, but it’s 1 performance.

*Judge him after the tournament*, he got us to the WC Semi-Final, got no credit for it, apparently it was all luck.

*He got us through qualifying with games* to spare, got no credit for it, apparently it was all luck.

We strolled past Croatia in the 1st game quite easily, Croatia are apparently weak now.

*The covid comment is ridiculous!*

The only people who seem the most upset with Southgate are those who expected him to change the way he plays and sets teams up, quite naive to be honest.
He will never play the flair players unshackled, he’ll play the solid straight forward players and play defensively.

As for passion, please, they should be able to show passion and desire regardless of who the manager is!

The style of play is shocking, but he’s the manager, so I hope he proves us all wrong in this tournament because it aint going to change during it and he isn’t going to be sacked during it.
		
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1, I want him sacked coz he is taking us down dead end street, and if you think it’s after one performance then you are So wrong.
2, Judge him after the tournament. Why? This is not Britain’s got talent. After 2 games Simon Cowell would of pressed the buzzer.
3, He got us through with games to spare? 😳 Montenegros, Kosovo, Bulgaria and the Czechs  seriously. 😂
4, The country don’t need a lift coz of Covid, am sure it does.


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## 4LEX (Jun 19, 2021)

Croatia were bang average in Russia and have got worse since to be honest. They reached the final with two pen shoot outs and beating us in extra time after we let them off the hook in the first half. I think as bad as England were last night, Croatia were even worse in both their games so far. I fully expect Scotland to do them on Tuesday and hope they do.

Taking a reflective mood on England after passions ran high, finishing second is a better run to the final and more games away from Wembley untill the semi finals, thus less pressure. No doubt we'll win Tuesday and finish top now 

Results wise Southgate has done a good job, however with the players at his disposal it's the bare minimum. We really have no style and no clear game plan. You've got 5 subs and the highest quality bench in the tournament and you don't use it? He's too scared to make a big call and get it wrong. The same will happen in the knock outs when it really counts. Hope I'm wrong and he switchs it up or gets it spot on tactically.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			But that’s me point, what exactly was it 😳 433, 4141, and with 2 defensive midfielders *I don’t know how you came to that* and 4231.
Come what may, none of them worked and that’s down to the manager.
		
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I watched the game and tried to work it out. 

Formations are fluid. Vary rarely dose a top team stick to a rigid formation. 

Niether does it matter what the perceived position of a player is on what formation a team plays.


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## fundy (Jun 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I watched the game and tried to work it out. 

Formations are fluid. Vary rarely dose a top team stick to a rigid formation. 

Niether does it matter what the perceived position of a player is on what formation a team plays.
		
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in most top sides id agree with that, less so in this england set up lol


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## BiMGuy (Jun 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			in most top sides id agree with that, less so in this england set up lol
		
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Fair


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			1, I want him sacked coz he is taking us down dead end street, and if you think it’s after one performance then you are So wrong.
2, Judge him after the tournament. Why? This is not Britain’s got talent. After 2 games Simon Cowell would of pressed the buzzer.
3, He got us through with games to spare? 😳 Montenegros, Kosovo, Bulgaria and the Czechs  seriously. 😂
4, The country don’t need a lift coz of Covid, am sure it does.
		
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Are you being serious? 
1. Unless you can see the future, it’s a guess.

2. The FA will not sack the England Manager while we are still in the tournament.

3. You can play the teams you are drawn against. Obviously you’d of preferred a last minute winner in the last qualifier.

4. IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE ENGLAND FOOTBALL MANAGER TO RAISE THE COUNTRIES SPIRITS. Did you say the same about the Rugby or Cricket Head Coach’s?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			In an ideal world yes but a lot depends on how the manager has set his players expectations and prepared them for the game.

I can imagine GS saying something like "for Scotland this is a big game, don't get involved, don't get caught up in the passion, stay calm and treat it like any other game"....20 minutes in and the game is passing most of the England team by because they've not been "at it" from the off.

Unfortunately the annual England - Scotland game gets played so rarely that most folks south of the border have forgotten what it means.....next to the FA Cup Final it was once the biggest game in the domestic sporting calendar....the players today just don't realise just HOW MUCH it means and what levels of commitment are needed....if the manager has a wishy washy approach then we are guaranteed a wishy washy performance.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree with anything you say, but some of it is more down to attitude than passion.

Pulling on that England shirt should provide all the passion anyone would need.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I watched the game and tried to work it out.

Formations are fluid. Vary rarely dose a top team stick to a rigid formation.

Niether does it matter what the perceived position of a player is on what formation a team plays.
		
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it don’t matter what the perceived position of a player is if they move like they do at City. But England are as rigid as they come


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## Slime (Jun 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			At this moment in time the whole of England needs a lift re what’s happened re Covid etc.* Southgate is helping to make this country even more depressing.*

Click to expand...

Wow.
People either take football far too seriously or they are being just a little bit melodramatic.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you being serious?
1. Unless you can see the future, it’s a guess.

2. The FA will not sack the England Manager while we are still in the tournament.

3. You can play the teams you are drawn against. Obviously you’d of preferred a last minute winner in the last qualifier.

4. IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE ENGLAND FOOTBALL MANAGER TO RAISE THE COUNTRIES SPIRITS. Did you say the same about the Rugby or Cricket Head Coach’s?
		
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1, Ave seen the past and the present, it equals the futur.
2, who said sack the manager during the tournament.Ave said sack him but not said now.
3, That answer is rammel, but if we qualified with games to spare. How comes we did not use them games to try to get some kind of momentum, some kind of style of play. We didn’t and still haven’t.
4, So By your reasoning the whole of Scotland is in mourning after yesterday’s result. Me finks it is still celebrating And Scotland has had a massive lift. Remember when England won the rugby World Cup. I remember exactly where I was . It gave the country a lift.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			Wow.
People either take football far too seriously or they are being just a little bit melodramatic.
		
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Judging by the comments on here, am not the only one. Have a look on the BBC comments page re England.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			1, Ave seen the past and the present, it equals the futur.

*Let’s hope he proves us wrong*
2, who said sack the manager during the tournament.Ave said sack him but not said now.
*You’re waffling, simon cowell, press the buzzer etc? So sack him, but keep him in charge or a secret*
3, That answer is rammel, but if we qualified with games to spare. How comes we did not use them games to try to get some kind of momentum, some kind of style of play. We didn’t and still haven’t.
*It hasn’t changed since his first game in charge, but his results are the best for an England Manager since Sir Bobby.*
4, So By your reasoning the whole of Scotland is in mourning after yesterday’s result. Me finks it is still celebrating And Scotland has had a massive lift. Remember when England won the rugby World Cup. I remember exactly where I was . It gave the country a lift.
*It only matters to those who follow or care about Football, the majority don’t*

Click to expand...

https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/and-were-off-2016-17.85762/page-157

I’m hoping the link works, it’s from the 2016/17 thread when he was appointed, if you read it you’ll see then I thought he was awful and should never of got the job.

Unfortunately we are stuck with him and he should be judged on results, right now we are still in a tournament and I will not hope our National Team fail just so we can sack the Manager.

We will probably win on Tuesday, but don’t expect too much.👍🏻


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## Slime (Jun 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Judging by the comments on here, *am not the only one*. Have a look on the BBC comments page re England.
		
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You're not wrong, however I think there are many supporters who are hoping England fail just so they can stick the knife in.
I'm finding all the recent 'fallout' both strange and hilarious, in equal measure.
I'm not struck by his team selections, style of play or substitutions ............................ but I still want him to be successful.
I'd sooner England win boring than get beaten in the next round playing expansive footy.
He knows a shed load more about the game than I do, I'm happy leaving it to him.

Come on England!!


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

I have said me piece re England to both Paul and Slime, but this current style of play is depressing me. As a City fan Ave an NVQ degree in rammel football. Maybe I have been spoilt watching “ the beautiful game under Mancini, Pelligriin and Pep. And as much as I point a finger at Southgate. It’s his employers the Fa who really twist my Tash.
Ave seen your link Paul and History has shown you were not wrong. If I had seen any glimmer of progress since then, then alls well. But to not see Sancho, and others not kick a ball in this tournament would be nowt short of shocking.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I have said me piece re England to both Paul and Slime, but this current style of play is depressing me. As a City fan Ave an NVQ degree in rammel football. Maybe I have been spoilt watching “ the beautiful game under Mancini, Pelligriin and Pep. And as much as I point a finger at Southgate. It’s his employers the Fa who really twist my Tash.
Ave seen your link Paul and History has shown you were not wrong. If I had seen any glimmer of progress since then, then alls well. But to not see Sancho, and others not kick a ball in this tournament would be nowt short of shocking.
		
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Same here mate, sadly Southgate will not change, have a good evening.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 19, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			Me personally would prefer to see England give it a go and loose than what we saw yesterday. Playing like that is not going to get us through the next round. Watching England yesterday reminded me of watching LIverpool at times last year. Would dominate possession, but not able to find a way of breaking the opposition down.
		
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Liverpool on a bad day!
We weren’t that bad most of the time.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Same here mate, sadly Southgate will not change, have a good evening.

Click to expand...

Have a good evening 😳. missis T has just said “ yer England flag is upside down “. Ave had a look on me flag pole. She changed the help for heroes flag earlier today for the England flag. It has England through the middle. Only ENGLAND was upside down 😖
Its  the first ever flag she has put up and the last 🤔😂
Look after yourself me man. 😘


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s amusing the level of excuses across social media today but it’s time the media should say it how it is

England who are supposed to be one of the favourites and ranked 4th in the World played against the 3rd lowest in the competition and it was on home soil and they were set up to not lose - pathetic really

Once again all hype and no substance

The squad they have should be playing so much better with so many bright attacking flair players - the sort of players that have helped the likes of France , Holland etc do well over the years , the sort of players England havent ever had but now they arrive they employ a manager who hasnt the first clue what to do with them

He plays a flat back four with 2 defensive midfielders sat in front - fine but then the fullbacks who should have a license to go forward because of the two sitting players very rarely venture past the halfway line, the “attacking mid” drops into the centre more because the centre forward spends all game dropping deep - that ends up leaving two “wider” players isolate and they then start to drop deeper as well. It’s shocking tactics and set up - as well as playing players who have struggled a lot recently whilst the form players sit and bench warm , glad TAA isn’t there , he would be so frustrated to have the ball and then look and see no England player in the box to deliver the ball too.

And then during the actual game the players just play on the defensive , allow Scotland to dictate the game and a young CM who still doesn’t play regualry is allowed to dominate the middle of the park. There was a stat that a player for Slovakia has more shots on target than England - he has also only played as a substitute 😂. Also when looking to make a change early he brings off one of the brighter players and then puts on someone who should be allowed to roam is then put out wide - only an excellent performance from Pickford saved England being embarrassed . Look at the way Adams played - why was Kane not showing the same level of passion and desire , he should also give up the armband - awful currently

England have done enough to qualify but they are going to get a battering from a top team when they face them

Against Czech Rep it should be time to unleash the players

Pickford

James
Mings
Stones
Chilwell

Rice/Henderson
Mount
Grealish

Foden
DCL
Sancho

Stop playing to ensure they don’t concede and take the game to the opposition. The recent World Cup masked how poor Southgate is as a top level manager. Seen Howe mentioned- at least he plays attacking football and has done well at the top level - Southgate was poor as a Prem manager as well and got very lucky to get the England job. Behind all the hype of “coming home” and waistcoat - it’s the same old overhyped England when they should really be dangerous in this competition because of the players they have.
		
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TAA is used to seeing nobody in the box every week as Firmino is so deep that he’s never there.
You argue that’s fine every time I say we need a striker.
But your not happy with Kane doing what Firmino does because it’s Klopps way of playing.
That’s a bit strange .


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			TAA is used to seeing nobody in the box every week as Firmino is so deep that he’s never there.
You argue that’s fine every time I say we need a striker.
But your not happy with Kane doing what Firmino does because it’s Klopps way of playing.
That’s a bit strange .
		
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Kane and Firmino are two different type of players playing two different roles in the team - TAA has people like Mo and Mane in the box regularly filling the space that Bobby has created dragging the CB out. 

After 4/5 years I would expect you to at least understand the way the front three work and why Klopp doesn’t play with an “number 9” which essentially what Kane is supposed to be and should be for England because the rest of the team isn’t flooded with other goalscorers


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## nickjdavis (Jun 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t disagree with anything you say, but some of it is more down to attitude than passion.

Pulling on that England shirt should provide all the passion anyone would need.
		
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Well...we think the same way but perhaps the difference between us and those that pull on the shirt is that we're not earning tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds a week. I can imagine that it might be difficult to show such desire and passion, attitude, when, lets face it....your pretty much set for life in your mid 20's.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Kane and Firmino are two different type of players playing two different roles in the team - TAA has people like Mo and Mane in the box regularly filling the space that Bobby has created dragging the CB out.

After 4/5 years I would expect you to at least understand the way the front three work and why Klopp doesn’t play with an “number 9” which essentially what Kane is supposed to be and should be for England because the rest of the team isn’t flooded with other goalscorers
		
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Phil I have seen over the years TAA and Robbo with their hands on their heads because they have space and time to cross but there is nobody in the box.
If you havnt seen it then I am suprized.
Firmino is hardly ever in the box , he’s always trying to make ground up that’s why his goal scoring record is ok for a midfielder but bad for a striker.
Kane is doing the same thing and looks very poor atm.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Phil I have seen over the years TAA and Robbo with their hands on their heads because they have space and time to cross but there is nobody in the box.
If you havnt seen it then I am suprized.
Firmino is hardly ever in the box , he’s always trying to make ground up that’s why his goal scoring record is ok for a midfielder but bad for a striker.
Kane is doing the same thing and looks very poor atm.
		
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Because Firmino is essentially playing as a deep lying forward/false 9/attacking mid as opposed to a striker/number9 in the box type players. 

Surely by now you understand how Klopp sets up the team and how Firmino plays and his role in it 🤷‍♂️

He is not there as primarily a goalscoring striker - you must know that


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## Slime (Jun 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



*I have said me piece re England to both Paul and Slime, but this current style of play is depressing me.* As a City fan Ave an NVQ degree in rammel football. Maybe I have been spoilt watching “ the beautiful game under Mancini, Pelligriin and Pep. And as much as I point a finger at Southgate. It’s his employers the Fa who really twist my Tash.
		
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That's fair enough and I accept that entirely.
Having gone from Fergie to Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho, watching Southgate's England just isn't as depressing for me as it is for you ........................ and many others, it would seem.
I'm already looking forward to the game on Tuesday.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because Firmino is essentially playing as a deep lying forward/false 9/attacking mid as opposed to a striker/number9 in the box type players.

Surely by now you understand how Klopp sets up the team and how Firmino plays and his role in it 🤷‍♂️

He is not there as primarily a goalscoring striker - you must know that
		
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Yes I do but I would prefer a striker it’s just my opinion.
But you have basically criticised Kane fo doing what Firmino does every week.
Saying TAA would have nobody in the box to cross to is just like every week in a Liverpool shirt imo of course.
The difference in the England team is we are so defensive minded the midfield players don’t get ahead of Kane so the box really is empty when he drops in.
But if he has been told to be a no9 striker what’s he doing in his own half looking forward to empty space where HE should be.
He should be dropped as your only as good as your last game and he was crap.


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## Val (Jun 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can I just check in case I missed anything, how many did Scotland win by? Cold light of day, still didn't score, only have 1 point, have to beat Croatia or will be going home. For all the euphoria is getting a point in a nil nil against England really the height of ambitions?

Fully agree with all of the comments re England already posted. Gareth, dust your waistcoat off, unshackle the players.

Anyone still suggesting Pickford doesn't deserve his place? Another solid performance in an England shirt.
		
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Scotland didn't score or win, however England are one of the tournament favourites, playing at home and were outplayed by a team who haven't played at a major tournament for 23 years so maybe you'll forgive our euphoria for a minute. Alternatively you could go back to showing videos of a goal from 1996 at Wembley.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 20, 2021)

Val said:



			Scotland didn't score or win, however England are one of the tournament favourites, playing at home and were outplayed by a team who haven't played at a major tournament for 23 years so maybe you'll forgive our euphoria for a minute. Alternatively you could go back to showing videos of a goal from 1996 at Wembley.
		
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We are only one of the favourites via bookies as England fans lump on every tournament and they have to protect themselves. No one really gives us a chance. I'm fine with euphoria but the reaction was as though Scotland had won the tournament. Be like that if you beat Croatia and qualify. That would be success, not a 0-0. I hope you get through 

I'm equally bored with replays of the gazza goal but that has only been shown as it was the last time we'd met in a tournament. Thankfully it has disappeared from our screens now 👍


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We are only one of the favourites via bookies as England fans lump on every tournament and they have to protect themselves. No one really gives us a chance. I'm fine with euphoria but the reaction was as though Scotland had won the tournament. Be like that if you beat Croatia and qualify. That would be success, not a 0-0. I hope you get through

I'm equally bored with replays of the gazza goal but that has only been shown as it was the last time we'd met in a tournament. Thankfully it has disappeared from our screens now 👍
		
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I am sick of seeing that goal.
The media hype is the problem.
They hyped the game up so much but in the end it was a poor game.
I was in East Renfrewshire GC when we beat the Dutch 4-1 and a Scot was blaming us for letting them score.
It was pointed out that Scotland were out because they only scored one goal.
They still seem to have that problem!


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## Slime (Jun 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am sick of seeing that goal.
The media hype is the problem.
They hyped the game up so much but in the end it was a poor game.
I was in East Renfrewshire GC when we beat the Dutch 4-1 and *a Scot was blaming us for letting them score.
It was pointed out that Scotland were out because they never scored even one goal.
They still seem to have that problem!*

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Chips and shoulders?


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## davidy233 (Jun 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am sick of seeing that goal.
I was in East Renfrewshire GC when we beat the Dutch 4-1 and a Scot was blaming us for letting them score.
*It was pointed out that Scotland were out because they never scored even one goal.*
They still seem to have that problem!
		
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I think you'll find that Scotland beat Switzerland that night - without scoring? That's impressive


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 20, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			I think you'll find that Scotland beat Switzerland that night - without scoring? That's impressive 

Click to expand...

I was celebrating coming fourth at east REN.
Have edited to give the Scots the credit they deserved in scoring one goal in three games.
But it was still England’s fault for letting the Dutch score.


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## rudebhoy (Jun 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I was celebrating coming fourth at east REN.
Have edited to give the Scots the credit they deserved in scoring one goal in three games.
But it was still England’s fault for letting the Dutch score.
		
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to be fair, I was watching that game in pub in Leeds with some English mates, and they were delighted when the Dutch scored to knock Scotland out!


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## Orikoru (Jun 20, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Croatia were bang average in Russia and have got worse since to be honest. They reached the final with two pen shoot outs and beating us in extra time after we let them off the hook in the first half. I think as bad as England were last night, Croatia were even worse in both their games so far. I fully expect Scotland to do them on Tuesday and hope they do.

Taking a reflective mood on England after passions ran high, finishing second is a better run to the final and more games away from Wembley untill the semi finals, thus less pressure. No doubt we'll win Tuesday and finish top now 

Results wise Southgate has done a good job, however with the players at his disposal it's the bare minimum. We really have no style and no clear game plan. You've got 5 subs and the highest quality bench in the tournament and you don't use it? He's too scared to make a big call and get it wrong. The same will happen in the knock outs when it really counts. Hope I'm wrong and he switchs it up or gets it spot on tactically.
		
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I agree with your comments on Southgate. He's insipid and passive, and totally wasting our fantastic attacking options by stifling the whole team with his fear of losing. I've felt this about him from day one, he was well overrated after we scraped into a world cup semi thanks to an unprecedentedly easy knock-out draw. I personally don't think it's much of a benefit to finish 2nd as we'll still face France or Germany just one round later anyway I believe. And I think winning the groups actually builds you a bit of momentum if anything. Confidence is not exactly going to be high it we can't beat Czech Republic either.


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## Orikoru (Jun 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We are only one of the favourites via bookies as England fans lump on every tournament and they have to protect themselves. No one really gives us a chance. I'm fine with euphoria but the reaction was as though Scotland had won the tournament. Be like that if you beat Croatia and qualify. That would be success, not a 0-0. I hope you get through

I'm equally bored with replays of the gazza goal but that has only been shown as it was the last time we'd met in a tournament. Thankfully it has disappeared from our screens now 👍
		
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Agreed on England's "favourites" tags. It's only due to idiots lumping on at the bookies. In reality France, Portugal, Germany and Belgium all have better squads, arguably Italy as well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Agreed on England's "favourites" tags. It's only due to idiots lumping on at the bookies. In reality France, Portugal, Germany and Belgium all have better squads, arguably Italy as well.
		
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It isn't just about better squads is it? It's about having a plan of style, a team dna. That definitely puts the Italians ahead of us, I'd argue the Dutch as well, in addition to those you have mentioned. Now Gareth could put his waistcoat on next game, discover his mojo and unleash the attackers and all will be different. If not then it will be a very short tournament for us, irrespective of any odds on paddy power etc.


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## Beezerk (Jun 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It isn't just about better squads is it? It's about having a plan of style, a team dna. That definitely puts the Italians ahead of us, I'd argue the Dutch as well, in addition to those you have mentioned. Now Gareth could put his waistcoat on next game, discover his mojo and unleash the attackers and all will be different. If not then it will be a very short tournament for us, irrespective of any odds on paddy power etc.
		
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The tactics in the last game were terrible, it felt like I was watching a training session. Foden getting the ball and passing it back straight away despite being in a good position to have a go at the fb. It was all over the pitch, barely anyone with a positive movement. That must have come from the manager, stifling players rather than trusting them to play their own game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 20, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			The tactics in the last game were terrible, it felt like I was watching a training session. Foden getting the ball and passing it back straight away despite being in a good position to have a go at the fb. It was all over the pitch, barely anyone with a positive movement. That must have come from the manager, stifling players rather than trusting them to play their own game.
		
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Totally agree. The fullbacks were another great example of this. Shaw and James are both excellent at overlapping and whipping crosses in yet both turned back over and over. They must have been told possession was everything and that just took over, smothering all creativity.


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## IanM (Jun 20, 2021)

Italy not bothered about the Wales game by the look of it


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## Billysboots (Jun 20, 2021)

Much is being made of the fact that finishing second in the group means England avoid France, Germany or Portugal in the last 16.

Frankly, as I have already said, we are not good enough to start manufacturing results in order to plot a favoured path to Euros glory. 

Just try and win every match, and if we’re good enough, we’re good enough. If not, then so be it. But if we’re not, then let’s not go down wondering what might have been in the event Southgate allowed the players to actually express themselves.

But express themselves they won’t. The alarm bells have been ringing for me for a couple of years, but reached deafening levels when Southgate included Jordan Henderson in his squad. That one selection said everything. Henderson will be a bit part player at this tournament, at best. If he was an indispensable squad member I might just be able to understand it, but he simply isn’t.

And all the cobblers about Henderson being a leader regardless of whether he actually played is garbage. Any player who needs to seek inspiration from an injured squad member like Henderson shouldn’t be in the squad themselves.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Much is being made of the fact that finishing second in the group means England avoid France, Germany or Portugal in the last 16.

Frankly, as I have already said, we are not good enough to start manufacturing results in order to plot a favoured path to Euros glory. 

Just try and win every match, and if we’re good enough, we’re good enough. If not, then so be it. But if we’re not, then let’s not go down wondering what might have been in the event Southgate allowed the players to actually express themselves.

But express themselves they won’t. The alarm bells have been ringing for me for a couple of years, but reached deafening levels when Southgate included Jordan Henderson in his squad. That one selection said everything. Henderson will be a bit part player at this tournament, at best. If he was an indispensable squad member I might just be able to understand it, but he simply isn’t.

And all the cobblers about Henderson being a leader regardless of whether he actually played is garbage. Any player who needs to seek inspiration from an injured squad member like Henderson shouldn’t be in the squad themselves.
		
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Why do they need hendersons apparent "leadership" the team is full of leaders..

Kane
Maigure 
Grealish 
Rice 

All captains of their clubs .. more than enough leadership

Don't need someone who's cockey enough to take a pen off someone when half fit and not even a decent pen taker 😂 I'm sure that went down well with the squad


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## IainP (Jun 20, 2021)

The pundits favourite - "the team without possession has to work harder"
Is there any science behind this?

Most teams with the ball need to keep moving to create space to receive passes. Is there really much difference?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Much is being made of the fact that finishing second in the group means England avoid France, Germany or Portugal in the last 16.

Frankly, as I have already said, we are not good enough to start manufacturing results in order to plot a favoured path to Euros glory.

Just try and win every match, and if we’re good enough, we’re good enough. If not, then so be it. But if we’re not, then let’s not go down wondering what might have been in the event Southgate allowed the players to actually express themselves.

But express themselves they won’t. The alarm bells have been ringing for me for a couple of years, but reached deafening levels when Southgate included Jordan Henderson in his squad. That one selection said everything. Henderson will be a bit part player at this tournament, at best. If he was an indispensable squad member I might just be able to understand it, but he simply isn’t.

And all the cobblers about Henderson being a leader regardless of whether he actually played is garbage. Any player who needs to seek inspiration from an injured squad member like Henderson shouldn’t be in the squad themselves.
		
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The only reason for not taking Henderson would be if he wasn’t fit or injured , fit imo he should be one of the first on the team sheet along with Kane - but also imo he should be the captain , but if as with Maguire they aren’t fit enough to play any part in the first two games then it’s just wasting spots in the squad and both should have been left at home.

Southgate doesn’t know how to let players express themselves - his managerial record is poor and he stumbled into the job when Allardyce got caught out. You would have thought after the Hodgson era there would be a learning lesson - seems the World Cup gave them an excuse to ignore the shortcomings


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 20, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			The tactics in the last game were terrible, it felt like I was watching a training session. Foden getting the ball and passing it back straight away despite being in a good position to have a go at the fb. It was all over the pitch, barely anyone with a positive movement. That must have come from the manager, stifling players rather than trusting them to play their own game.
		
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This and the fact the Players believe the “hype” that they only have to turn up and they can stroll around while the opposition lay down.
The most frustrating part for me though is the lack of fight or frustration after 20 minutes when they see it’s not going to plan.
Situations like this I don’t see a natural leader on the pitch stirring them up. At least when fit, Jordan Henderson does this and can step up, infact, I don’t think we have anyone else apart from him that is a natural leader.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Why do they need hendersons apparent "leadership" the team is full of leaders..

Kane
Maigure
Grealish
Rice

All captains of their clubs .. more than enough leadership

Don't need someone who's cockey enough to take a pen off someone when half fit and not even a decent pen taker 😂 I'm sure that went down well with the squad
		
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Being given an armband doesn’t make a person a leader - Henderson is imo the only person who is actually a leader both on and off the pitch - others maybe captains but not leaders


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## Billysboots (Jun 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Why do they need hendersons apparent "leadership" the team is full of leaders..

Kane
Maigure 
Grealish 
Rice 

All captains of their clubs .. more than enough leadership

Don't need someone who's cockey enough to take a pen off someone when half fit and not even a decent pen taker 😂 I'm sure that went down well with the squad
		
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I agree, but it’s Henderson’s leadership qualities which are being widely cited as the reason he was included.

Sorry, even if he is back in full training, there is an absolute world of difference between that and being match fit for international tournament football. A really odd decision to include him, but one of many odd decisions which seem to be the hallmark of Southgate’s management.


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## Orikoru (Jun 20, 2021)

Jesus, red card for that?? That's a yellow all day. What a crazy decision. Game ruined now. 😕


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Jesus, red card for that?? That's a yellow all day. What a crazy decision. Game ruined now. 😕
		
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It’s late with studs onto the foot with a bit of force  - it’s one where it’s hard to see a red card being overturned and you can see why they give it - a soft red card maybe


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## pauljames87 (Jun 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I agree, but it’s Henderson’s leadership qualities which are being widely cited as the reason he was included.

Sorry, even if he is back in full training, there is an absolute world of difference between that and being match fit for international tournament football. A really odd decision to include him, but one of many odd decisions which seem to be the hallmark of Southgate’s management.
		
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England have it all wrong 
Form not names 

Other countries do so and the "lesser" players are workers and pull together rather than have inflated egos from being undroppable 

Sterling not a good season but just walks into first team 

Sacho good season bench


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## 2blue (Jun 20, 2021)

Referee is appaulling......  allowing Italian cynical fouls to go without cards. Player bursting into the penalty area is bundled off the ball....  just a foul given but in that location should always be yellow at this stage of the game.


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## Orikoru (Jun 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s late with studs onto the foot with a bit of force  - it’s one where it’s hard to see a red card being overturned and you can see why they give it - a soft red card maybe
		
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I didn't think it was reckless, he stayed on his feet, wasn't diving in or two footed, just a fraction late and catches the player. I'd always see that as a yellow card challenge personally. Very harsh to send him off, and you could see Ampadu and his teammates were stunned.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Jesus, red card for that?? That's a yellow all day. What a crazy decision. Game ruined now. 😕
		
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Totally agree ,certainly not reckless and out of control.
Game not spoilt though Wales have never been threatening


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## 2blue (Jun 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I didn't think it was reckless, he stayed on his feet, wasn't diving in or two footed, just a fraction late and catches the player. I'd always see that as a yellow card challenge personally. Very harsh to send him off, and you could see Ampadu and his teammates were stunned.
		
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Yeah...  badly timed...  never reckless


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## Orikoru (Jun 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Totally agree ,certainly not reckless and out of control.
Game not spoilt though Wales have never been threatening
		
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Bale should have buried that volley though! Huge chance.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2021)

That’s excellent for Wales to get second place - they look like they will play Finland , Denmark or Russia , really great chance for them to get into the quarters.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Much is being made of the fact that finishing second in the group means England avoid France, Germany or Portugal in the last 16.

Frankly, as I have already said, we are not good enough to start manufacturing results in order to plot a favoured path to Euros glory.

Just try and win every match, and if we’re good enough, we’re good enough. If not, then so be it. But if we’re not, then let’s not go down wondering what might have been in the event Southgate allowed the players to actually express themselves.

But express themselves they won’t. The alarm bells have been ringing for me for a couple of years, but reached deafening levels when Southgate included Jordan Henderson in his squad. That one selection said everything. Henderson will be a bit part player at this tournament, at best. If he was an indispensable squad member I might just be able to understand it, but he simply isn’t.

And all the cobblers about Henderson being a leader regardless of whether he actually played is garbage. Any player who needs to seek inspiration from an injured squad member like Henderson shouldn’t be in the squad themselves.
		
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Are you even remotely aware that England could finish 3rd in the group


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 20, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Are you even remotely aware that England could finish 3rd in the group
		
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You are aware the best 4 third place finishes qualify as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Are you even remotely aware that England could finish 3rd in the group
		
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Did you even read what he posted 🤷‍♂️

What does your response have to do with what he has posted ?


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## Billysboots (Jun 20, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Are you even remotely aware that England could finish 3rd in the group
		
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Am I missing something?


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## Beezerk (Jun 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Am I missing something?
		
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Just the massive chip on his shoulder.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You are aware the best 4 third place finishes qualify as well.
		
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Yes


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Why do they need hendersons apparent "leadership" the team is full of leaders..

Kane
Maigure
Grealish
Rice

All captains of their clubs .. more than enough leadership

Don't need someone who's cockey enough to take a pen off someone when half fit and not even a decent pen taker 😂 I'm sure that went down well with the squad
		
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And the amount of major trophies by these "leaders"???????

Divvy.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 20, 2021)

I've never seen Henderson offer any kind of 'leadership' when playing for England. Or offer any kind of drive forward. 

We had a bad game. Get over it. If you can't don't bother watching the next one if it really depresses you that much. Do something you enjoy instead.


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## williamalex1 (Jun 20, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yes
		
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I think it could mibbie  come down to goal differences


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			And the amount of major trophies by these "leaders"???????

Divvy.
		
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Oh I'm sorry.. didn't realize the rest of the team being of a good standard made you a good captain 

Idiot.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 21, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yes
		
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So what’s your point?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 21, 2021)

I didn't know whether to put this in the laughter thread but this morning the local paper up here are suggesting Newcastle will offer money and a player to Arsenal for Willock. I'm trying to contemplate which player Arsenal would want from the Newcastle team and once I get past Saint Maximim I've got nothing. You have to love local papers and their off season football gossip.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I didn't know whether to put this in the laughter thread but this morning the local paper up here are suggesting Newcastle will offer money and a player to Arsenal for Willock. I'm trying to contemplate which player Arsenal would want from the Newcastle team and once I get past Saint Maximim I've got nothing. You have to love local papers and their off season football gossip.
		
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Steve Bruce could be an improvement to their back line 😁👍


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			So what’s your point?
		
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A couple of posts by England supporters assuming that they will finish in first or second place without noticing how open the group still is.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

Right im fully recovered after Fridays fiasco...


Its coming home


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A couple of posts by England supporters assuming that they will finish in first or second place without noticing how open the group still is.
		
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But that has absolutely no relevance to the post you quoted. He was saying we should go all out for the win and try and ensure we win the group, rather than playing for 2nd for a supposed easier draw. He never said we couldn't finish 3rd?




Bdill93 said:



			Right im fully recovered after Fridays fiasco...


Its coming home 

Click to expand...

More chance of * coming home.


*name was removed by a mod


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But that has absolutely no relevance to the post you quoted. He was saying we should go all out for the win and try and ensure we win the group, rather than playing for 2nd for a supposed easier draw. He never said we couldn't finish 3rd?



More chance of coming home.
		
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Jack Grealish would find  with 3 men surrounding him at all times! 

He cant if he isnt given the opportunity though...


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Jack Grealish would find  with 3 men surrounding him at all times! 

He cant if he isnt given the opportunity though...
		
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To be fair I'm a huge fan of his, but he get 'an opportunity' the other day and did very little like the rest of them. We do need changes though, I'd still give him the start, along with Sancho in Sterling's place, and bring Trippier back in. Rest Mount or Phillips to keep Foden in.

(Edit: Actually, that's basically the team I was saying to start in the first place before the tournament. )


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To be fair I'm a huge fan of his, but he get 'an opportunity' the other day and did very little like the rest of them. We do need changes though, I'd still give him the start, along with Sancho in Sterling's place, and bring Trippier back in. Rest Mount or Phillips to keep Foden in.

(Edit: Actually, that's basically the team I was saying to start in the first place before the tournament. )
		
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I'd like to change it up a bit 

------------------Pickford

Tripper --stones---mings--shaw 

----------------rice-----mount 

Sancho----------grealish------foden

----------------------kane 

Mount being more box to box in there , grealish foden and sancho being fluid 3 with Kane making some runs in behind STOP COMING DEEP  he isn't playing for Pep yet lol


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd like to change it up a bit

------------------Pickford

Tripper --stones---mings--shaw

----------------rice-----mount

Sancho----------grealish------foden

----------------------kane

Mount being more box to box in there , grealish foden and sancho being fluid 3 with Kane making some runs in behind STOP COMING DEEP  he isn't playing for Pep yet lol
		
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Yeah that's basically exactly what I was thinking.   Though maybe Foden in the middle and Grealish wide for me. But they would interchange during the game anyway I feel. 

Wishful thinking anyway, this is Southgate so he'll probably switch to the back five to make sure we get the nil nil that sees us through. 😣


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah that's basically exactly what I was thinking.   Though maybe Foden in the middle and Grealish wide for me. But they would interchange during the game anyway I feel. 

Wishful thinking anyway, this is Southgate so he'll probably switch to the back five to make sure we get the nil nil that sees us through. 😣
		
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A back 5 wouldn't be so terrible if done correctly tbh. 

You need walker at CB to allow tripper to basically bomb forward .. or if you really really want to do it properly player saka as a wing back and let him lose lol 

But we don't play with zip and speed

Grealish and foden makes sense easily swapable


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To be fair I'm a huge fan of his, but he get 'an opportunity' the other day and did very little like the rest of them. We do need changes though, I'd still give him the start, along with Sancho in Sterling's place, and bring Trippier back in. Rest Mount or Phillips to keep Foden in.

(Edit: Actually, that's basically the team I was saying to start in the first place before the tournament. )
		
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Stuck him out wide, never fed him enough of the ball and when we did, he was brilliant.

Should have taken off Mount (for a rest more than anything - I rate Mount) for Jack. Sancho for Foden, Rashford for Sterling and kept Kane on.

While he played well in game 1, Phillips was poor on Friday - I'd like to see mount play box to box and give the freedom at 10 to JG.


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## Piece (Jun 21, 2021)

My team would be, assuming all fit, etc. :

Pickford

Walker Stones Maguire Chilwell
Phillips
Sancho Mount Grealish Foden
Kane

Let the "footballers" play football.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Piece said:



			My team would be, assuming all fit, etc. :

Pickford

Walker Stones Maguire Chilwell
Phillips
Sancho Mount Grealish Foden
Kane

Let the "footballers" play football.
		
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I'd feel harsh dropping Ming's for Maguire 

2 clean sheets


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## Piece (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd feel harsh dropping Ming's for Maguire

2 clean sheets
		
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A few reasons - Maguire needs game time to prove or increase fitness. This game gives him that time. Also, Mings wasn't great v Scotland, but not helped by any cover in front of him as Che Adams had the freedom of the pocket.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd feel harsh dropping Ming's for Maguire

2 clean sheets
		
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Agree the lads done ok.
We should be looking for a settled team but we’re far from it.
I would leave Kane out and play Foden up the middle with Sancho and Grealish for Sterling


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## Kellfire (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd feel harsh dropping Ming's for Maguire

2 clean sheets
		
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At the expensive of the team though? I’d hope Southgate would be more expansive up the pitch if he had more faith in his centre backs.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd feel harsh dropping Ming's for Maguire

2 clean sheets
		
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I also would drop Phillips for Rice. Far better holding player in my opinion.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I also would drop Phillips for Rice. Far better holding player in my opinion.
		
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That is the trouble with rice and England he will always be the holding player. Club level him and soucek interchange and cover each other so both become slightly more box to box 

Phillips isnt as good defensively so rice gets the unfashionable job of sitting. Thus never looking anything more than "average" to the untrained football eye 



Kellfire said:



			At the expensive of the team though? I’d hope Southgate would be more expansive up the pitch if he had more faith in his centre backs.
		
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You could well be right there , stones is shakey aswell tho mind .. only looks great for city as he has Dias next to him


Piece said:



			A few reasons - Maguire needs game time to prove or increase fitness. This game gives him that time. Also, Mings wasn't great v Scotland, but not helped by any cover in front of him as Che Adams had the freedom of the pocket.
		
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Good point about game time. If Maguire is needed in the latter stages or is to be used should I say he may need fitness 

But then half fit players shouldnt be there


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

Maguire wouldn't be in the squad if he didn't intend to drop Mings for him as soon as fitness allowed. So that will happen eventually.


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## Piece (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I also would drop Phillips for Rice. Far better holding player in my opinion.
		
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I favour Phillips as I think he's more dynamic. However, Rice does the dirty work better, granted.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

My team for game 3 - 

Stones has nothing more to prove (starts for me in any game going forward) - get Maguire some game time. Chillwell too. 
Let Jack be free in midfield.
Sancho deserves to show us what he's got.
Sub Foden early - need him fresh in the KO's. 
Rice to hold/ sit. 
Get Kane the ball in the area he's best - the box.


                Pickford

Walker Maguire Mings Chillwell

      Mount   Rice  Grealish

Foden         Kane          Sancho


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

Piece said:



			I favour Phillips as I think he's more dynamic. However, Rice does the dirty work better, granted.
		
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I dont not like Phillips - I just think if youre only playing 1 holding, it has to be Rice as our CB's are suspect.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont not like Phillips - I just think if youre only playing 1 holding, it has to be Rice as our CB's are suspect.
		
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I think that's Southgate s thinking aswell

Rice looked like he was dropping into almost a 3rd Cb role (he did play an entire season at CB in the league) like dier used to do for England when he was in favour allowing for the full backs to get forward

Tbh with tripper rather than James I think could have worked better


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			My team for game 3 -

Stones has nothing more to prove (starts for me in any game going forward) - get Maguire some game time. Chillwell too.
Let Jack be free in midfield.
Sancho deserves to show us what he's got.
Sub Foden early - need him fresh in the KO's.
Rice to hold/ sit.
Get Kane the ball in the area he's best - the box.


                Pickford

Walker Maguire Mings Chillwell

      Mount   Rice  Grealish

Foden         Kane          Sancho
		
Click to expand...

Yes good line up.
But I would give Kane a rest and bring him on if nessesary.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

I've noticed with these line ups pretty much everyone wants grealish and foden

Nobody wants sterling. Which makes so much sense..yes he scored but blimey does he waste the ball the rest of the time


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I've noticed with these line ups pretty much everyone wants grealish and foden

Nobody wants sterling. Which makes so much sense..yes he scored but blimey does he waste the ball the rest of the time
		
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We've not had Grealish for 90 mins yet. Everyone wants it. Fans, Pundits, Ex England players - everyone is saying the same thing.

Let the ballers go and play - TOGETHER. They'll create the chances for Kane that no one else can.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I've noticed with these line ups pretty much everyone wants grealish and foden

Nobody wants sterling. Which makes so much sense..yes he scored but blimey does he waste the ball the rest of the time
		
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He did it at Liverpool 
Does it at City.
But others bail him out.
He never takes anyone on anymore so his pace is wasted.
When he’s good he’s good but it’s not often enough.
Given his season I am suprized he got in the squad.


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

I don't know if Sterling has ever been that great for England. He's done well for City under Pep, and improved under him, but it's all based on the way they play, with 75% possession and good movement to get in the box for tap-ins, essentially. Last season was a downturn in number of goals for him, and for England he has 15 in 63 which is nothing to write home about really - in 2019 was his best spell as he got 8 in 9 that year - including a hat-trick against Czech Republic, funnily enough. But generally without the number of close range chances he gets at City, I'm not sure he offers enough. I think Sancho may well be a better player overall, for that right-sided pacey player role. I wouldn't use Rashford either as I don't think he's a very good or consistent finisher. I do concede that Sancho hasn't proved he's any better yet, but I think he should get a chance to do that.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He did it at Liverpool 
Does it at City.
But others bail him out.
He never takes anyone on anymore so his pace is wasted.
When he’s good he’s good but it’s not often enough.
Given his season I am suprized he got in the squad.
		
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That's the thing he's got in on his name not his form, which Southgate said would happen, and it's just annoying. Lingard and wardprowse very much inform players , yes less "talented" but he calls up the names (Henderson and sterling) instead just because of who they are.

Sancho hasn't played yet and grealish barely so what the heck chance does saka have of playing. They say oh get him around the squad be great for him. Some game time wouldn't go a miss.

Wardprowse for example. Next to either rice or Phillips would be excellent just what we need and able to benefit from all the free kicks grealish wins

Alas no. He is at home because Henderson is there. Who hasn't played since Feb..

What message does this send to players. Oh have a great season play really well but sorry no can do because the bigger name who isn't even fully fit is going


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know if Sterling has ever been that great for England. He's done well for City under Pep, and improved under him, but it's all based on the way they play, with 75% possession and good movement to get in the box for tap-ins, essentially. Last season was a downturn in number of goals for him, and for England he has 15 in 63 which is nothing to write home about really - in 2019 was his best spell as he got 8 in 9 that year - including a hat-trick against Czech Republic, funnily enough. But generally without the number of close range chances he gets at City, I'm not sure he offers enough. I think Sancho may well be a better player overall, for that right-sided pacey player role. I wouldn't use Rashford either as I don't think he's a very good or consistent finisher. I do concede that Sancho hasn't proved he's any better yet, but I think he should get a chance to do that.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently someone I work with who knows this stuff he has the most dribbles past for England .. and is our most useful player as he gets in behind

Issue is he has stopped doing this


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			That's the thing he's got in on his name not his form, which Southgate said would happen, and it's just annoying. Lingard and wardprowse very much inform players , yes less "talented" but he calls up the names (Henderson and sterling) instead just because of who they are.

Sancho hasn't played yet and grealish barely so what the heck chance does saka have of playing. They say oh get him around the squad be great for him. Some game time wouldn't go a miss.

Wardprowse for example. Next to either rice or Phillips would be excellent just what we need and able to benefit from all the free kicks grealish wins

Alas no. He is at home because Henderson is there. Who hasn't played since Feb..

What message does this send to players. Oh have a great season play really well but sorry no can do because the bigger name who isn't even fully fit is going
		
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Hard to disagree with that.
But he’s taken a few who are not fit .
All managers gamble a bit like this.
But given the forwards we have Sterling should be watching it on TV at home 
We have the cover there and JWP should be there I think.
Players who are in form should be playing


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Hard to disagree with that.
But he’s taken a few who are not fit .
All managers gamble a bit like this.
But given the forwards we have Sterling should be watching it on TV at home 
We have the cover there and JWP should be there I think.
Players who are in form should be playing
		
Click to expand...

Yeah Maguire is a tricky one. Our choices without him aren't great. However his injury was more recent so you could just about understand it 

But Feb? It really doesn't make sense at all 

Sometimes the lesser players are the ones who surprise you. They want it more 

Take Korea 2002 world cup 

Gerrard breaks his foot.. Murphy called up. Injured so Sinclair goes .. ends up surprising everyone and being one of our stand out players .. 

Just wish we would learn that sometimes it's not about who you are


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yeah Maguire is a tricky one. Our choices without him aren't great. However his injury was more recent so you could just about understand it

But Feb? It really doesn't make sense at all

Sometimes the lesser players are the ones who surprise you. They want it more

Take Korea 2002 world cup

Gerrard breaks his foot.. Murphy called him. Injured so Sinclair goes .. ends up surprising everyone and being one of our stand out players ..

Just wish we would learn that sometimes it's not about who you are
		
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Yes all our talent is in the young lads but very frustrating that we havnt seen them yet.
But we’re talking GS.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

In defence of taking a few non-fit players, we have been allowed a larger squad of 26. The 3 big injured names are there in the additional 3 spots. Normally we would only be allowed 23 anyway so its a moot point in my eyes!


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			In defence of taking a few non-fit players, we have been allowed a larger squad of 26. The 3 big injured names are there in the additional 3 spots. Normally we would only be allowed 23 anyway so its a moot point in my eyes!
		
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But that's the thing these extra places are for covid issues incase say Kane tests positive you have that player to take his place

It's not to shoe horn your injured players In.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			In defence of taking a few non-fit players, we have been allowed a larger squad of 26. The 3 big injured names are there in the additional 3 spots. Normally we would only be allowed 23 anyway so its a moot point in my eyes!
		
Click to expand...

Yes point taken.
But Hendo has been out a very long time it takes games to get up to speed but he hasn’t played him yet .
That’s a strange one why take a player who has been out a while if he isn’t one of your starting 11 when fit?
But he could be put in against a world class team in the knock out stage with no game time behind him.
I find that strange


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes point taken.
But Hendo has been out a very long time it takes games to get up to speed but he hasn’t played him yet .
That’s a strange one why take a player who has been out a while if he isn’t one of your starting 11 when fit?
But he could be put in against a world class team in the knock out stage with no game time behind him.
I find that strange
		
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When fit isn't Henderson first choice tho really? Would be rice and Henderson these days.. he is the captain after all


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			In defence of taking a few non-fit players, we have been allowed a larger squad of 26. The 3 big injured names are there in the additional 3 spots. Normally we would only be allowed 23 anyway so its a moot point in my eyes!
		
Click to expand...

 Prime example for Scotland Billy Gilmore just tested positive .. so right if that was Phillips . You don't have your wardprowse to step in..you have a half fit Henderson 

I'd say same with stones but do we have decent CBS?


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			When fit isn't Henderson first choice tho really? Would be rice and Henderson these days.. he is the captain after all
		
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Yes that’s what I was trying to say.
He is normally a starter when fit so why has he not played him ?
He needs game time .
Maybe the penalty fiasco with DCL has a bearing.
As a fit Hendo plays imo.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes that’s what I was trying to say.
He is normally a starter when fit so why has he not played him ?
He needs game time .
Maybe the penalty fiasco with DCL has a bearing.
As a fit Hendo plays imo.
		
Click to expand...

It will be the "saving him for the knockout" rubbish which disrespects those who got through the group


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			In defence of taking a few non-fit players, we have been allowed a larger squad of 26. The 3 big injured names are there in the additional 3 spots. Normally we would only be allowed 23 anyway so its a moot point in my eyes!
		
Click to expand...

Understand this but for me you still don't take someone who's liable to miss all three group games, that's probably over 50% of the tournament for us. It's a waste of a spot. Your argument would be fine if they hadn't played much recently but were at least ready for inclusion on the first game.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Prime example for Scotland Billy Gilmore just tested positive .. so right if that was Phillips . You don't have your wardprowse to step in..you have a half fit Henderson

I'd say same with stones but do we have decent CBS?
		
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Rice, Phillips, Mount, Grealish, Bellingham and Foden all capable of playing CM - Hendo is an experienced bonus.


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## Billysboots (Jun 21, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A couple of posts by England supporters assuming that they will finish in first or second place without noticing how open the group still is.
		
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I think you need to re-read my post, because I said nothing of the sort.

Top tip. If you’re going to have a pop, get your facts right first.


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## fundy (Jun 21, 2021)

It seems the plucky Scots have got their excuse now Gilmour has tested positive and Mc Ginn and Robertson will be self isolating

Fortunately for England none of their players need to self isolate as they didnt get close enough to Gilmour the other night 🤣🤣🤣


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## Neilds (Jun 21, 2021)

I'm not sure Grealish is the answer to Englands problems.  A lot is made about the number of free kicks he wins but most of our set pieces have been dreadful, unable to beat the first defender.  Also, at the end of the Scotland match he was going backwards towards his own goal with ample opportunity to pass back or out to the wing but was more content to hold onto the ball and get a free kick in hs own half.  Not sure what the point of that was but maybe the critics who say he holds onto the ball too long may have a point?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Rice, Phillips, Mount, Grealish, Bellingham and Foden all capable of playing CM - Hendo is an experienced bonus.
		
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The issue I've got is that he will walk in above some of them when they have earned it


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Understand this but for me you still don't take someone who's liable to miss all three group games, that's probably over 50% of the tournament for us. It's a waste of a spot. Your argument would be fine if they hadn't played much recently but were at least ready for inclusion on the first game.
		
Click to expand...

I see absolutely no need for them at all. If the 23 squad isnt good enough then thats down to depth selection in those areas - we took how many defenders! 

Could easily remove White and Chilwell (as he doesnt seem to be having a chance despite winning the CL) from this squad!


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I see absolutely no need for them at all. If the 23 squad isnt good enough then thats down to depth selection in those areas - we took how many defenders!

Could easily remove White and *Chilwell *(as he doesnt seem to be having a chance despite winning the CL) from this squad!
		
Click to expand...

Surely Saka? Fourth choice left back if you count Trippier, and sixth choice winger. But as pauljames said above, the extra spots were to cover emergency Covid withdrawals I guess.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Surely Saka? Fourth choice left back if you count Trippier, and sixth choice winger. But as pauljames said above, the extra spots were to cover emergency Covid withdrawals I guess.
		
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Another name to add to my list really - just forgot about him! I am counting tripper as cover for both FB's.

Id rather have Hendo there than not. 

Maguire there as CB3 as even 90% fit he's better than Coady. 

Feels to me like a squad picked to play 5 - 3 - 2 yet we're playing 4-3-3

Weird all round


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Another name to add to my list really - just forgot about him! I am counting tripper as cover for both FB's.

Id rather have Hendo there than not.

Maguire there as CB3 as even 90% fit he's better than Coady.

*Feels to me like a squad picked to play 5 - 3 - 2 yet we're playing 4-3-3*

Weird all round
		
Click to expand...

This was my assumption as well! I figured Walker was in to be the third CB, White was added as cover for Stones & Mings to play there as well. Back five was the only thing that made sense when he called up so many wide players and centre backs.


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## Beezerk (Jun 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			It seems the plucky Scots have got their excuse now Gilmour has tested positive and Mc Ginn and Robertson will be self isolating

Fortunately for England none of their players need to self isolate as they didnt get close enough to Gilmour the other night 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully he gave Sterling a massive hug and kiss after the game 😘


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh I'm sorry.. didn't realize the rest of the team being of a good standard made you a good captain

Idiot.
		
Click to expand...

You still havent answered how many trophies these other "leaders" have won in comparison.

Quite a few England players as well as Liverpool players have talked at length on how Jordan is a great leader and captain, plus the one who got all of the premiership captains together for the NHS campaign.

Personally, I would rather have him back here with TAA rather than playing for a tin pot manager in a team that is supported by fickle, stupid and blame culture fans, in the main.


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## Kellfire (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			You still havent answered how many trophies these other "leaders" have won in comparison.

Quite a few England players as well as Liverpool players have talked at length on how Jordan is a great leader and captain, plus the one who got all of the premiership captains together for the NHS campaign.
		
Click to expand...

Aye, but that penalty though.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 21, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Hopefully he gave Sterling a massive hug and kiss after the game 😘
		
Click to expand...

I saw so little of Sterling in the last game I thought he was still in Reece James' pocket.


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## chrisd (Jun 21, 2021)

Has Sterling been devalued?


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## BrianM (Jun 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			It seems the plucky Scots have got their excuse now Gilmour has tested positive and Mc Ginn and Robertson will be self isolating

Fortunately for England none of their players need to self isolate as they didnt get close enough to Gilmour the other night 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

I believe the McGinn / Robertson having to isolate is a wind up....


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## Kellfire (Jun 21, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Has Sterling been devalued?
		
Click to expand...

At the moment it’s performing very poorly against the Euros.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			It seems the plucky Scots have got their excuse now Gilmour has tested positive and Mc Ginn and Robertson will be self isolating

Fortunately for England none of their players need to self isolate as they didnt get close enough to Gilmour the other night 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Funny that as in Scotland that joke says the England Players are deemed to be safe.
The good news is that Billy is fit to go for the final.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 21, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I saw so little of Sterling in the last game I thought he was still in Reece James' pocket. 

Click to expand...

Sterling was marked out of the game by Motherwell's O'Donnell.
One absolutely pathetic penalty claim was all I could remember of his contributions.


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## fundy (Jun 21, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Funny that as in Scotland that joke says the England Players are deemed to be safe.
The good news is that Billy is fit to go for the final.

Click to expand...


do you even read before your hackles go up and you reply?


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## BiMGuy (Jun 21, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Funny that as in Scotland that joke says the England Players are deemed to be safe.
The good news is that Billy is fit to go for the final.

Click to expand...

I thought Scotland played their final last Friday, and won 0-0? 😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 21, 2021)

I don’t think Sterling should be starting for England, but what I don’t understand is why some seem confused why Southgate selects him and a few others.

No International Manager or Club Manager, imo, picks every team they are in charge of purely on form, they have favourites or players they believe suits “their” system better than others.

Have a look at your own Club and ask yourself if you’ve questioned why a certain player has been played/picked before others even when returning from injury.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 21, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Funny that as in Scotland that joke says the England Players are deemed to be safe.
The good news is that Billy is fit to go for the final.

Click to expand...

If you stopped trying to score points for long enough to read the post you quoted, you might stop shooting yourself in the foot 👍


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think Sterling should be starting for England, but what I don’t understand is why some seem confused why Southgate selects him and a few others.

No International Manager or Club Manager, imo, picks every team they are in charge of purely on form, they have favourites or players they believe suits “their” system better than others. 

Have a look at your own Club and ask yourself if you’ve questioned why a certain player has been played/picked before others even when returning from injury.
		
Click to expand...

This is true but those players are usually put back in because the squad player taking his place isn’t as good.
That just isn’t the case in the England team.
In Sterling’s case there are better players on the bench.
But know what you mean.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

we can all say that we would like to see Sancho instead of Sterling or Henderson instead of Rice and DCL as opposed to Kane and Southgate could pick those players but it would still be the same prime objective- “don’t lose” , it would be the same negative mindset , the same level of managerial skills he displayed at Middlesbrough- he does not know how to play any other way. The team has no identity , no structure, no desire or leadership right now. The likes of Italy have the structure and method of play and then put the players in to fit that - England don’t appear to have a clue which way they actually want to play beyond being defensive and playing safe. Glad that TAA went home - he would be wasted. All that wonderful attacking talent and it’s just stifled in chains


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## arnieboy (Jun 21, 2021)

It would be useful if we had someone that could cross the ball and put free kicks into the box. That's why JWP should have been there. Kane might have a chance then.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			It would be useful if we had someone that could cross the ball and put free kicks into the box. That's why JWP should have been there. Kane might have a chance then.
		
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There’s 11 international players on the pitch.
But we don’t have anyone who can take a free kick or decent corner.
Kane’s not bad at corners.


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## Kellfire (Jun 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			There’s 11 international players on the pitch.
But we don’t have anyone who can take a free kick or decent corner.
Kane’s not bad at corners.

Click to expand...

Trippier is excellent at set pieces.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			You still havent answered how many trophies these other "leaders" have won in comparison.

Quite a few England players as well as Liverpool players have talked at length on how Jordan is a great leader and captain, plus the one who got all of the premiership captains together for the NHS campaign.

Personally, I would rather have him back here with TAA rather than playing for a tin pot manager in a team that is supported by fickle, stupid and blame culture fans, in the main.
		
Click to expand...

So basically unless you’re the captain of one of the top clubs in the Prem you’re not a leader?

But the captain of Man City could have been quiet as a mouse all last season & he’d be a “leader”?
🤔


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## fundy (Jun 21, 2021)

some talk that Chilwell and Mount are having to isolate


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			some talk that Chilwell and Mount are having to isolate
		
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Maybe that will teach some of our pampered stars

They were allowed to play again on the condition they stayed apart when not playing..ie at end of games 

Mount has broken it already by meeting up with rice for a kick about 

For crying out loud 

I'd send them both home


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Maybe that will teach some of our pampered stars

They were allowed to play again on the condition they stayed apart when not playing..ie at end of games

Mount has broken it already by meeting up with rice for a kick about

For crying out loud

I'd send them both home
		
Click to expand...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....wing-billy-gilmours-positive-coronavirus-test

Mount and Chilwell embraced and spoke to Gilmour following England's Euro 2020 draw with Scotland at Wembley on Friday, with their Chelsea team-mate returning a positive test on Monday.


they spoke to a club team mate ffs after the match - just like many other teammates have spoken to each other through the competition, and no different to the close marking they have during the game 

Yet pampered and being sent home 🙄🤦‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			You still havent answered how many trophies these other "leaders" have won in comparison.

Quite a few England players as well as Liverpool players have talked at length on how Jordan is a great leader and captain, plus the one who got all of the premiership captains together for the NHS campaign.

Personally, I would rather have him back here with TAA rather than playing for a tin pot manager in a team that is supported by fickle, stupid and blame culture fans, in the main.
		
Click to expand...


As I said earlier - just because someone wears an armband doesn’t make them a leader , Kane , Rice etc maybe captains but they don’t appear to be leaders 

Henderson has shown many times over the past couple of years how much of a leader he is on the pitch and as you say off the pitch.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....wing-billy-gilmours-positive-coronavirus-test

Mount and Chilwell embraced and spoke to Gilmour following England's Euro 2020 draw with Scotland at Wembley on Friday, with their Chelsea team-mate returning a positive test on Monday.


they spoke to a club team mate ffs after the match - just like many other teammates have spoken to each other through the competition, and no different to the close marking they have during the game 

Yet pampered and being sent home 🙄🤦‍♂️
		
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Incase you didn't notice Phil there is a pandemic going on

Right now their club bubbles are finished. They have had to form international bubbles .. with the idea of making the tournament safer and reducing the risk of outbreak 

What message does it send to young fans seeing them embrace? Oh it's fine. Their team mates isn't it lovely 

Same as Xmas when the players were spotted at parties together.

If they test positive now how many of our squad have to go? Just because of their stupid behaviour 

Foden and greenwood broke covid rules on England duty and were sent home.

Doesn't matter the level of the break players need to set an example.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Incase you didn't notice Phil there is a pandemic going on

Right now their club bubbles are finished. They have had to form international bubbles .. with the idea of making the tournament safer and reducing the risk of outbreak

What message does it send to young fans seeing them embrace? Oh it's fine. Their team mates isn't it lovely

Same as Xmas when the players were spotted at parties together.

If they test positive now how many of our squad have to go? Just because of their stupid behaviour

Foden and greenwood broke covid rules on England duty and were sent home.

Doesn't matter the level of the break players need to set an example.
		
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What difference is there between 20 players huddled in the box with many of them on top of each during a corner , or someone closing marking each other for 90 mins , grabbing them , pulling their shirt , seen players from opponents hugging each other at the end of the match - so why does it make a difference 5 mins later in the tunnel ?

The players spend 90 mins getting closer to each then they ever normally would , players are going to catch it regardless

Or does the contact on the pitch not pass Covid 🙄


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

Excellent from Holland - from a team written off by a number before the start they are impressing , DeBoer done a great job and Depay looks a far better player than what was seen at Man Utd - also great see Gini doing so well


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## BiMGuy (Jun 21, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Trippier is excellent at set pieces.
		
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As is Philips


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What difference is there between 20 players huddled in the box with many of them on top of each during a corner , or someone closing marking each other for 90 mins , grabbing them , pulling their shirt , seen players from opponents hugging each other at the end of the match - so why does it make a difference 5 mins later in the tunnel ?

The players spend 90 mins getting closer to each then they ever normally would , players are going to catch it regardless

Or does the contact on the pitch not pass Covid 🙄
		
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The risk assessments were done by people way way above your pay grade. I'm sorry they didn't consult your opinion


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

Loads of changes for Belgium but still a strong team - didn’t realise Vermualen was still playing , interesting to see if Hazard will start to find some form.

Really interesting from the players about Martinez and the last World Cup along with his tactics and changes


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## GB72 (Jun 21, 2021)

Not criticising just interested. How can 2 England players have more contact with Gilmour than anyone in the Scotland squad.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 21, 2021)

Why do Mount and Chilwell have to isolate as contacts of Gilmour but none of the Scottish players are having to isolate? I'm sure at least a few of them hugged him at full time and were a lot closer that the two England players.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 21, 2021)

Apparently City bid £100m for Kane.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Apparently City bid £100m for Kane.
		
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Well we has spent the entire season dropping deep to show pep he play how he wants


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## pokerjoke (Jun 21, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Apparently City bid £100m for Kane.
		
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Haha a cheeky bid based on his crap Euro form.
£150m when he starts scoring again


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not criticising just interested. How can 2 England players have more contact with Gilmour than anyone in the Scotland squad.
		
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ColchesterFC said:



			Why do Mount and Chilwell have to isolate as contacts of Gilmour but none of the Scottish players are having to isolate? I'm sure at least a few of them hugged him at full time and were a lot closer that the two England players.
		
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This was the interaction with Gilmour 




I believe the Scotland players won’t need to self isolate because they are in the same bubble 🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This was the interaction with Gilmour 

View attachment 37161


I believe the Scotland players won’t need to self isolate because they are in the same bubble 🤷‍♂️
		
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As per guidelines close contact is any period of time at a distance of less than one metre.

So yes giving a hug was moronic.


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## Old Skier (Jun 21, 2021)

Organisers of the comp playing a blinder. If UK don’t relax their quarantine rules they will loose the semi’s and final at Wembley. Holland refuses to allow Welsh supporters into the country and no sanctions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			As per guidelines close contact is any period of time at a distance of less than one metre.

So yes giving a hug was moronic.
		
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How does someone mark a player at a set piece if they can’t be within 1 metre 🤷‍♂️

Is that why the England players couldn’t get close to any Scotland player then - or does the virus stop transmitting for 90mins whilst the players play football 🙄


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As I said earlier - just because someone wears an armband doesn’t make them a leader , Kane , Rice etc maybe captains but they don’t appear to be leaders

Henderson has shown many times over the past couple of years how much of a leader he is on the pitch and as you say off the pitch.
		
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Christ, you must have spent a lot of time in a lot of Premier League dressing rooms, how do they keep letting you in?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How does someone mark a player at a set piece if they can’t be within 1 metre 🤷‍♂️

Is that why the England players couldn’t get close to any Scotland player then - or does the virus stop transmitting for 90mins whilst the players play football 🙄
		
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I know you think your clever Phil but the more you type the more you lose all credibility.

Guidelines are.

Public Health England (PHE) guidance states that someone could be considered a close contact and might have to self-isolate if they had a face-to-face conversation within one metre or had been within two metres of someone for more than 15 minutes who tested positive for Covid-19.

So marking someone on a pitch very much different 

Yet I know Phil knows a darn sight more than experts 

Stick to hockey . Clown


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Christ, you must have spent a lot of time in a lot of Premier League dressing rooms, how do they keep letting you in?
		
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Everyone needs a cleaner


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I know you think your clever Phil but the more you type the more you lose all credibility.

Guidelines are.

Public Health England (PHE) guidance states that someone could be considered a close contact and might have to self-isolate if they had a face-to-face conversation within one metre or had been within two metres of someone for more than 15 minutes who tested positive for Covid-19.

So marking someone on a pitch very much different

Yet I know Phil knows a darn sight more than experts

Stick to hockey . Clown
		
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Once again you resort to throwing insults at someone who challenges an opinion 

Why is marking someone on a pitch different ? 

The players spend 90mins constantly in each other’s faces , grabbing each other , pulling shirts , lifting people up from the ground - yet a 2/3 min conversation with the player at full time is moronic 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Christ, you must have spent a lot of time in a lot of Premier League dressing rooms, how do they keep letting you in?
		
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You do understand what “appears” means ?

Do you class Kane as a leader ? 

Can you give some examples of where his leadership has shown through over the last couple of years ?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Once again you resort to throwing insults at someone who challenges an opinion 

Why is marking someone on a pitch different ? 

The players spend 90mins constantly in each other’s faces , grabbing each other , pulling shirts , lifting people up from the ground - yet a 2/3 min conversation with the player at full time is moronic 🤷‍♂️
		
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Once again Phil your up to your useful tricks 

Trolling at its finest, yet play the victim to stay within the rules and not get a ban 

Standard


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 21, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Organisers of the comp playing a blinder. If UK don’t relax their quarantine rules they will loose the semi’s and final at Wembley. Holland refuses to allow Welsh supporters into the country and no sanctions.
		
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Of course. The final would involve the sponsors and the bigwigs and the Wales match only affects the fans. UEFA proved that they care more about the money than the fans when they moved the CL final to Portugal instead of holding it in the UK.


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You do understand what “appears” means ?

Do you class Kane as a leader ?

Can you give some examples of where his leadership has shown through over the last couple of years ?
		
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Without being inside a dressing room you're just guessing. Henderson shouts a lot on the pitch so I guess he's a leader? Kane absolutely does that as well so they're on equal footing as far as we know. Anything else is guesswork as I say.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Organisers of the comp playing a blinder. If UK don’t relax their quarantine rules they will loose the semi’s and final at Wembley. Holland refuses to allow Welsh supporters into the country and no sanctions.
		
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It was always going to happen - for all the ills of the ESL one of the reasons they looked at doing it was to try and wrestle power away from UEFA ,it’s all about their own greed - a lot of the highlights in regards corruption were shining on FIFA but UEFA no better


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Without being inside a dressing room you're just guessing. Henderson shouts a lot on the pitch so I guess he's a leader? Kane absolutely does that as well so they're on equal footing as far as we know. Anything else is guesswork as I say.
		
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One wears a Liverpool shirt .. thats why


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Without being inside a dressing room you're just guessing. Henderson shouts a lot on the pitch so I guess he's a leader? Kane absolutely does that as well so they're on equal footing as far as we know. Anything else is guesswork as I say.
		
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Do you think that’s all Henderson does - shouts a lot on the pitch 🙄

Here is one example of what Henderson has also done

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....captain-named-nhs-charities-together-champion

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....captain-footballer-year-fwa-a9638021.html?amp


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 21, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Organisers of the comp playing a blinder.* If UK don’t relax their quarantine rules they will loose the semi’s and final at Wembley*. Holland refuses to allow Welsh supporters into the country and no sanctions.
		
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Exactly the same as the Champions League final then.  The UEFA leopard isn't for changing its spots.


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you think that’s all Henderson does - shouts a lot on the pitch 🙄

Here is one example of what Henderson has also done

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....captain-named-nhs-charities-together-champion

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/jordan-henderson-liverpool-interview-captain-footballer-year-fwa-a9638021.html?amp

Click to expand...

What the hell has that got to do with football? Rashford organised a lot of food for poor children, but that doesn't make him a leader in football terms either does it?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What the hell has that got to do with football? Rashford organised a lot of food for poor children, but that doesn't make him a leader in football terms either does it?
		
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Phil doesn't understand there is a massive difference between a decent Captain and a decent human being 

John terry. Amazing captain. Wouldn't trust him around your wife tho


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 21, 2021)

How about we stop the “tit for tat” childish comments before this thread gets locked!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Exactly the same as the Champions League final then.  The UEFA leopard isn't for changing its spots.
		
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I wonder which country they would take them too - Hungary no doubt will get one - maybe even the final as they could prob fill the stadium full of sponsers.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Trippier is excellent at set pieces.
		
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He is but he can’t take them sitting on the bench.
Mount took most last game and never got one over the first defender.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Maybe that will teach some of our pampered stars

They were allowed to play again on the condition they stayed apart when not playing..ie at end of games

Mount has broken it already by meeting up with rice for a kick about

For crying out loud

I'd send them both home
		
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Not sure about sending them home.
But in a pandemic they need to learn to stay apart after the games over.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What difference is there between 20 players huddled in the box with many of them on top of each during a corner , or someone closing marking each other for 90 mins , grabbing them , pulling their shirt , seen players from opponents hugging each other at the end of the match - so why does it make a difference 5 mins later in the tunnel ?

The players spend 90 mins getting closer to each then they ever normally would , players are going to catch it regardless

Or does the contact on the pitch not pass Covid 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Childwell wasn’t on the pitch during the game I think!


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## AmandaJR (Jun 21, 2021)

If the players broke protocol then they pay the price for that. Whether the contact is deemed more or less than what might occur naturally on the pitch is irrelevant. The rules are there for a reason and they know them and knowingly broke them. Tough maybe, but them's the rules lads.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Excellent from Holland - from a team written off by a number before the start they are impressing , DeBoer done a great job and Depay looks a far better player than what was seen at Man Utd - also great see Gini doing so well
		
Click to expand...

Do you think Klopp has played him to deep over the years .?
Or is his finishing just better in a orange shirt.
He looks so much better further forward.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 21, 2021)

Great goal very well taken.
VAR now taking over after being silent for so long.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do you think Klopp has played him to deep over the years .?
Or is his finishing just better in a orange shirt.
He looks so much better further forward.
		
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Going to a big club next season has given him a boost


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do you think Klopp has played him to deep over the years .?
Or is his finishing just better in a orange shirt.
He looks so much better further forward.
		
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Klopp plays him in a different role , uses his legs , his engine , his ball retention - Klopp described him as the heartbeat of the team and easy to see why - against Barcelona he played in that forward role a bit more and got his rewards and when he went forward he was dangerous, hugely underrated for us - just a shame he was moving into his 30’s and wouldn’t sign the new contract but there was no way we could match tbe £300k PSG are paying him


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp plays him in a different role , uses his legs , his engine , his ball retention - Klopp described him as the heartbeat of the team and easy to see why - against Barcelona he played in that forward role a bit more and got his rewards and when he went forward he was dangerous, hugely underrated for us - just a shame he was moving into his 30’s and wouldn’t sign the new contract but there was no way we could match tbe £300k PSG are paying him
		
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Yes but just wondering when Firmino was out why he didn’t push him up.
Acedemic now hope he does well at PSG.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Going to a big club next season has given him a boost
		
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Good effort.


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## fundy (Jun 21, 2021)

some hit from christensen that

great to see denmark going through


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Great goal very well taken.
VAR now taking over after being silent for so long.
		
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Strange they never showed it .
Or did I miss it.


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## PieMan (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You do understand what “appears” means ?

Do you class Kane as a leader ?

Can you give some examples of where his leadership has shown through over the last couple of years ?
		
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Didn't he lead his team mates up to collect their Champions League losers medals the other season? 😉


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			some hit from christensen that

great to see denmark going through
		
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He's looked a different player under the new manager.


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## fundy (Jun 21, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			He's looked a different player under the new manager.
		
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hes not the only one!


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			He's looked a different player under the new manager.
		
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So have a few England players and not in a good way!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2021)

Alex Witsel showing what experience can bring in the middle of the park , been out for months but the manager puts him in the and eases him back in - exactly what Southgate should be doing with Henderson , that level of experience is key and it’s one of things missing in Englands midfield

That’s another team cruising through into the KO - Holland and Belgium now , France will prob be next followed by Germany .

Really great to see Denmark get through as well


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			So have a few England players and not in a good way!
		
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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

PieMan said:



			Didn't he lead his team mates up to collect their Champions League losers medals the other season? 😉
		
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Nope, as I recall it was our captain that did that.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Alex Witsel showing what experience can bring in the middle of the park , been out for months but the manager puts him in the and eases him back in - exactly what Southgate should be doing with Henderson , that level of experience is key and it’s one of things missing in Englands midfield

That’s another team cruising through into the KO - Holland and Belgium now , France will prob be next followed by Germany .
		
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Yes don’t understand .
His lack of games was a perfect reason to play the group games.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Alex Witsel showing what experience can bring in the middle of the park , been out for months but the manager puts him in the and eases him back in - exactly what Southgate should be doing with Henderson , that level of experience is key and it’s one of things missing in Englands midfield
		
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Fgs really Phil? 🤦‍♂️
Think you might bigging old Hendo up a bit too much here 🙄


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

Anyway, great to see Denmark go through to be honest. So rare that you'd get 2nd place with only 3 points, but it feels like karma for Eriksen and how difficult that Finland game must have been - the football Gods giving something back if you like.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 21, 2021)

Great to see England have “cruised” through with 1 game to spare.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Great to see England have “cruised” through with 1 game to spare.

Click to expand...

Yeah but if Henderson had played we’d have already won it 🤷‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 21, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah but if Henderson had played we’d have already won it 🤷‍♂️
		
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For me it won’t be who plays but it’s the orders from the manager that’s the problem.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 21, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Great to see England have “cruised” through with 1 game to spare.

Click to expand...

Brilliant, that's success so we will be having a deja Vue comments page on how crap Southgate is at the next world cup 😖😆
Coz he will still be manager


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 21, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Are you even remotely aware that England could finish 3rd in the group
		
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And still qualify for the last 16


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			For me it won’t be who plays but it’s the orders from the manager that’s the problem.
		
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If Grealish doesn’t get a start he’s going to be Lionel Messi after the tournament.
Never heard so much hype for such a slightly above average player,it’s like he should be first player on the team sheet


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## Tashyboy (Jun 21, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And still qualify for the last 16 

Click to expand...

They have  done 🤣👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Brilliant, that's success so we will be having a deja Vue comments page on how crap Southgate is at the next world cup 😖😆
Coz he will still be manager
		
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I’ll guarantee Sterling starts the first game.😂😂


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 21, 2021)

Who do we play if we lose tomorrow night and finish third in the group?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Who do we play if we lose tomorrow night and finish third in the group?
		
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Won’t be drawn until all first round matches finished.


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## Kellfire (Jun 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Who do we play if we lose tomorrow night and finish third in the group?
		
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Might not play anyone afaik.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 21, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Might not play anyone afaik.
		
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How do we not play anyone when we have already qualified?


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2021)

The third place thing is so daft and convoluted that I genuinely think they'd be better off doing a live draw for the 2nd round, like the FA Cup. Would be entertaining and vastly easier to understand.


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## Slime (Jun 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What difference is there between 20 players huddled in the box with many of them on top of each during a corner , or someone closing marking each other for 90 mins , grabbing them , pulling their shirt , seen players from opponents hugging each other at the end of the match - so why does it make a difference 5 mins later in the tunnel ?

The players spend 90 mins getting closer to each then they ever normally would , players are going to catch it regardless

Or does the contact on the pitch not pass Covid 🙄
		
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Apparently, according to reports, the Chelsea boys carried on their conversation in the tunnel for quite a while after the game, that's what's causing the issues.


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## Kellfire (Jun 21, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			How do we not play anyone when we have already qualified?
		
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Because I didn’t know you had.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Who do we play if we lose tomorrow night and finish third in the group?
		
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I saw something on BBC site the other day think it could be winners from B,C and E


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2021)

So it’s seems that City have also potentially offered Spurs players - Jesus , Laporte or Sterling 

Will Levy accept a big fee plus a few players ? 

Talking on 5live this morning and they said the player that City really should look at is Lukaku - Inter have money issues maybe the same sort of price as Kane 

Have to agree - that would be the better signing


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## Bdill93 (Jun 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah but if Henderson had played we’d have already won it 🤷‍♂️
		
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If Carlsberg did forum posts


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## Tashyboy (Jun 22, 2021)

The Italian primeminister does not want the final played at Wembley due to rising cases and the delta variant.
That I get, I hope UEFA use some.common sense.
However. They didnt when they played the champs league final in Portugal when both teams were from England.
Watch this space coz ave a feeling this could gather pace.


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## Kellfire (Jun 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it’s seems that City have also potentially offered Spurs players - Jesus , Laporte or Sterling

Will Levy accept a big fee plus a few players ?

Talking on 5live this morning and they said the player that City really should look at is Lukaku - Inter have money issues maybe the same sort of price as Kane

Have to agree - that would be the better signing
		
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Jesus has Spurs written all over it. Comes advertised as a saviour but ultimately doesn’t exist.


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## Kellfire (Jun 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it’s seems that City have also potentially offered Spurs players - Jesus , Laporte or Sterling

Will Levy accept a big fee plus a few players ?

Talking on 5live this morning and they said the player that City really should look at is Lukaku - Inter have money issues maybe the same sort of price as Kane

Have to agree - that would be the better signing
		
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Also, Lukaku showed at United that it you don’t build a team for him, he doesn’t work and Pep isn’t going to adapt to using an old fashioned centre forward for Lukaku when he didn’t for Aguero.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			If Grealish doesn’t get a start he’s going to be Lionel Messi after the tournament.
Never heard so much hype for such a slightly above average player,it’s like he should be first player on the team sheet
		
Click to expand...

I actually like Grealish and he could offer us creativity that we currently lack. It is funny though how on occasions players, in all sports, can improve massively without ever playing. Being injured, being on the bench whilst your colleagues struggle can turn you into a world beater. He is definitely in that category right now.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I actually like Grealish and he could offer us creativity that we currently lack. It is funny though how on occasions players, in all sports, can improve massively without ever playing. Being injured, being on the bench whilst your colleagues struggle can turn you into a world beater. He is definitely in that category right now.
		
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Indeed.. Henderson has become Patrick Vieira all of a sudden


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## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Also, Lukaku showed at United that it you don’t build a team for him, he doesn’t work and Pep isn’t going to adapt to using an old fashioned centre forward for Lukaku when he didn’t for Aguero.
		
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Lukaku would be a terrible fit for this City side. As you say, he's not an all-round forward who's going to chip into build-up play in the way that Kane does. I shouldn't think they'd be interested in Lukaku at all.


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## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I actually like Grealish and he could offer us creativity that we currently lack. It is funny though how on occasions players, in all sports, can improve massively without ever playing. Being injured, being on the bench whilst your colleagues struggle can turn you into a world beater. He is definitely in that category right now.
		
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The best example of this was Jack Wilshere. The longer he was injured for, the more Arsenal fans built him up like he was going to come back and revolutionise the team. Same with England and how we were all apparently waiting for him to come back to we could build the team around him. By the time he was back playing again though he was utterly useless.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Also, Lukaku showed at United that it you don’t build a team for him, he doesn’t work and Pep isn’t going to adapt to using an old fashioned centre forward for Lukaku when he didn’t for Aguero.
		
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Have you not seen the way Lukaku is playing for Belgium ? The way he is linking up with KDB , how he is dropping deep , wide - Belgium have got the best out of him without building a team around him and he isn’t just a “old fashioned” forward , his game has improved immensely since he left UTD


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## Kellfire (Jun 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have you not seen the way Lukaku is playing for Belgium ? The way he is linking up with KDB , how he is dropping deep , wide - Belgium have got the best out of him without building a team around him and he isn’t just a “old fashioned” forward , his game has improved immensely since he left UTD
		
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Lukaku’s best play is still when leading the line and using his power to hold off players and producing explosive finishes. You can tell de Bruyne would love a forward like that at City for sure but Pep doesn’t want that.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I actually like Grealish and he could offer us creativity that we currently lack. It is funny though how on occasions players, in all sports, can improve massively without ever playing. Being injured, being on the bench whilst your colleagues struggle can turn you into a world beater. He is definitely in that category right now.
		
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Grealish actually is that good though.

So is Sancho 

Both not getting substantial enough minutes to make any sort of difference. Sancho especially


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Grealish actually is that good though.

So is Sancho 

Both not getting substantial enough minutes to make any sort of difference. Sancho especially
		
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I do wonder if (no matter what rubbish Southgate puts out about not favouring the big teams) that if Sancho had completed his transfer last summer to United then he would be starting


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## Bdill93 (Jun 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I do wonder if (no matter what rubbish Southgate puts out about not favouring the big teams) that if Sancho had completed his transfer last summer to United then he would be starting
		
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Maybe... I think he'd still be like JG and stuck behind the favourites


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Maybe... I think he'd still be like JG and stuck behind the favourites
		
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If grealish had gone to spurs a few years ago I think he would be much more established in the England team.. they were a regular top 4 side ..

Favourites or not they always favour the big boys unless they have no other option


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I actually like Grealish and he could offer us creativity that we currently lack. It is funny though how on occasions players, in all sports, can improve massively without ever playing. Being injured, being on the bench whilst your colleagues struggle can turn you into a world beater. He is definitely in that category right now.
		
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I think some players impact isn’t seeing until they aren’t playing - we have seen it when Henderson was injured last season , he was never seen as a key player for us until he wasn’t there and then it was evident for all what was missing , it’s probably a bigger miss for Villa when Grealish wasn’t there because so much goes through him 

England are missing what Grealish can do - his type of ball carrying has not been seen since Gazza , there was a lot of talk about Foden being the new Gazza etc but Grealish is closer to him imo , when you then add in the deep lying creativity from Mount plus the pace and direct running from Sancho then Kane should be desperate for those players to get into the team 

It’s then up to the manager to get the best out of them 

England’s front 6 ideally should be 

Henderson sitting
Mount and Grealish in front ( with Bellingham there if they want a bit more legs and engine ) 

Foden , Kane and Sancho as a front three 

If playing against a stronger midfield then add in Rice to protect and Henderson or Bellingham to move into a more 8 role ( what Gini does for Liverpool ) 

It must be so frustrating for Kane to see all these excellent young attackers who should create chances for him being stifled


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## Bdill93 (Jun 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think some players impact isn’t seeing until they aren’t playing - we have seen it when Henderson was injured last season , he was never seen as a key player for us until he wasn’t there and then it was evident for all what was missing , it’s probably a bigger miss for Villa when Grealish wasn’t there because so much goes through him

England are missing what Grealish can do - his type of ball carrying has not been seen since Gazza , there was a lot of talk about Foden being the new Gazza etc but Grealish is closer to him imo , when you then add in the deep lying creativity from Mount plus the pace and direct running from Sancho then Kane should be desperate for those players to get into the team

It’s then up to the manager to get the best out of them

England’s front 6 ideally should be

Henderson sitting
Mount and Grealish in front ( with Bellingham there if they want a bit more legs and engine )

Foden , Kane and Sancho as a front three

If playing against a stronger midfield then add in Rice to protect and Henderson or Bellingham to move into a more 8 role ( what Gini does for Liverpool )

It must be so frustrating for Kane to see all these excellent young attackers who should create chances for him being stifled
		
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You're bang on here about Jack.

Foden does not/ I'm yet to see him carry a whole team on his back, drag them up the field and get them playing football. Only one Englishman can do that and hes busy warming a bench seat. The whole nation knows it, why cant Gareth just swallow his pride and do what is best for England. 

If hes not starting tonight - I'm firmly Gareth out, its an absolute joke. Our starting line ups are frankly pathetic.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 22, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You're bang on here about Jack.

Foden does not/ I'm yet to see him carry a whole team on his back, drag them up the field and get them playing football. Only one Englishman can do that and hes busy warming a bench seat. The whole nation knows it, why cant Gareth just swallow his pride and do what is best for England.

If hes not starting tonight - I'm firmly Gareth out, its an absolute joke. Our starting line ups are frankly pathetic.
		
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Foden doesn't need to be that player at City. 

Grealish has to be that player at Villa. But England don't (or shouldn't) need a player that runs forward with the sole purpose of failing over to slow the game down enough for the rest of the team to join in. 

I've heard no end of people say England need to play faster. Then say Grealish should be playing. 🤷‍♂️

If we want faster, we need to ditch Rice and Sterling, then play Bellingham and Sancho. With Walker back on the Right pushing Foden forward.
Also Trippier back in for Shaw.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 22, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Foden doesn't need to be that player at City.

Grealish has to be that player at Villa. But England don't (or shouldn't) need a player that runs forward with the sole purpose of failing over to slow the game down enough for the rest of the team to join in.

I've heard no end of people say England need to play faster. Then say Grealish should be playing. 🤷‍♂️

If we want faster, we need to ditch Rice and Sterling, then play Bellingham and Sancho. With Walker back on the Right pushing Foden forward.
Also Trippier back in for Shaw.
		
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If you think that all Grealish adds is fouls, you've not seen enough of him. 

Ditch Phillips for Bellingham maybe - Rice is better defensively as cover for the CB's. We dont need two guys doing that role. 

Talk sport have made a similar point about Foden, no he doesnt need to be like Grealish at city - he has pure class surrounding him everywhere that play tiki taka football. England dont - so what is he actually bringing to us? Hes done nothing for 2 games.

Grealish drags the whole team forward from defence to attack, by himself. No one else in the whole squad can do what he does. There are plenty of talented players around the pitch, all sat happy in their lines being safe - we wont win the euros playing safe. 

Winning the odd free kick here and there is hardly a bad thing either, if we could beat the first man on a dead ball it would really be something too!


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## GB72 (Jun 22, 2021)

OK my confusion continues, Mount and Chilwell must isolate until Monday, I get that but am still a bit confused as to the bigger picture. Both of those players would have been in contact with other players in the England bubble since so how come they continue as normal. Same with the Scotland bubble, how come they just test and get on with it. 

Again, not having a dig at any team or player but more just trying to understand how the system works as logic would seem to suggest that both squads should isolate (or at least stay within their bubbles) for 10 days but I guess that would make proceeding wiht the tournament almost untenable.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			OK my confusion continues, Mount and Chilwell must isolate until Monday, I get that but am still a bit confused as to the bigger picture. Both of those players would have been in contact with other players in the England bubble since so how come they continue as normal. Same with the Scotland bubble, how come they just test and get on with it.

Again, not having a dig at any team or player but more just trying to understand how the system works as logic would seem to suggest that both squads should isolate (or at least stay within their bubbles) for 10 days but I guess that would make proceeding wiht the tournament almost untenable.
		
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You are only a "Primary contact" if you have contact with the positive case yourself - therefore have to isolate.

The rest of the bubble are categorised as "Secondary contacts" - they only isolate if their primary contact tests positive


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## GB72 (Jun 22, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You are only a "Primary contact" if you have contact with the positive case yourself - therefore have to isolate.

The rest of the bubble are categorised as "Secondary contacts" - they only isolate if their primary contact tests positive
		
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OK, that all makes more sense. On the assumption that there were celebrations in the changing rooms afterwards, how does that then allow the Scotland squad to not isolate bearing in mind that they would have been been in contact with a positive case. Surely that would trigget the same isolation requirement for most, if not all, of the match day squad.


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## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			OK my confusion continues, Mount and Chilwell must isolate until Monday, I get that but am still a bit confused as to the bigger picture. Both of those players would have been in contact with other players in the England bubble since so how come they continue as normal. Same with the Scotland bubble, how come they just test and get on with it.

Again, not having a dig at any team or player but more just trying to understand how the system works as logic would seem to suggest that both squads should isolate (or at least stay within their bubbles) for 10 days but I guess that would make proceeding wiht the tournament almost untenable.
		
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Let's face it - all the 'Covid regulations' are simply to appease health officials and allow the tournament to go ahead. They are not necessarily logical or actually designed for player safety and to prevent transmissions. If they were really worried about transmissions the tournament probably wouldn't be on. They've had to come up with certain rules to tick enough boxes for it to happen. So Mount & Chilwell were visibly seen hugging Gilmour on TV, so they have to be seen enacting a regulation. What the players do in their own camps is behind closed doors though so no action required. Maybe they asked Mount and Chilwell if they had any 'close contact' with anybody else, but they would have been encouraged by the England camp to say no so that nobody else has to miss a game.

I'm not sure I've worded what I mean clearly, but in essence I feel it's for show above all else.


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## GB72 (Jun 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Let's face it - all the 'Covid regulations' are simply to appease health officials and allow the tournament to go ahead. They are not necessarily logical or actually designed for player safety and to prevent transmissions. If they were really worried about transmissions the tournament probably wouldn't be on. They've had to come up with certain rules to tick enough boxes for it to happen. So Mount & Chilwell were visibly seen hugging Gilmour on TV, so they have to be seen enacting a regulation. What the players do in their own camps is behind closed doors though so no action required. Maybe they asked Mount and Chilwell if they had any 'close contact' with anybody else, but they would have been encouraged by the England camp to say no so that nobody else has to miss a game.

I'm not sure I've worded what I mean clearly, but in essence I feel it's for show above all else.
		
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This is sort of what I was feeling. The logical step in any instance would be to isolate the team but doing that even once would wreck the timetable for the entire tournament. As such, the rules needed to be drafted in such a way that the occasional player may be lost to isolation but never a whole team or squad.


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## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			This is sort of what I was feeling. The logical step in any instance would be to isolate the team but doing that even once would wreck the timetable for the entire tournament. As such, the rules needed to be drafted in such a way that the occasional player may be lost to isolation but never a whole team or squad.
		
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Exactly that. The schedule must be adhered to. And as you say, with Gilmour he must have had contact with at least one other Scotland player, but he'll have been encouraged to say he hasn't, or else they could lose 5, 10 players and then be asking for a delay to their next match.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Exactly that. The schedule must be adhered to. And as you say, with Gilmour he must have had contact with at least one other Scotland player, but he'll have been encouraged to say he hasn't, or else they could lose 5, 10 players and then be asking for a delay to their next match.
		
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Scotland will be isolating from the rest of the tournament after tonight anyway.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Indeed.. Henderson has become Patrick Vieira all of a sudden
		
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Still counting up to nil?


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 22, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Foden doesn't need to be that player at City.

Grealish has to be that player at Villa. But England don't (or shouldn't) need a player that runs forward with the sole purpose of failing over to slow the game down enough for the rest of the team to join in.

I've heard no end of people say England need to play faster. Then say Grealish should be playing. 🤷‍♂️

If we want faster, we need to ditch Rice and Sterling, then play Bellingham and Sancho. With Walker back on the Right pushing Foden forward.
Also Trippier back in for Shaw.
		
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Bang on, I would have Foden over Grealish all day long.

He quickens the play, is dynamic and stays on his feet more, Grealish slows the tempo of a game down with constantly being on the deck.


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## larmen (Jun 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Let's face it - all the 'Covid regulations' are simply to appease health officials and allow the tournament to go ahead. They are not necessarily logical or actually designed for player safety and to prevent transmissions. If they were really worried about transmissions the tournament probably wouldn't be on. They've had to come up with certain rules to tick enough boxes for it to happen. So Mount & Chilwell were visibly seen hugging Gilmour on TV, so they have to be seen enacting a regulation. What the players do in their own camps is behind closed doors though so no action required. Maybe they asked Mount and Chilwell if they had any 'close contact' with anybody else, but they would have been encouraged by the England camp to say no so that nobody else has to miss a game.

I'm not sure I've worded what I mean clearly, but in essence I feel it's for show above all else.
		
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I think we can separate the instances into necessary and unnecessary contacts, and they focus on punishing/isolating unnecessary ones.

Same in society, schools are necessary and we take them into account. Raves are not. And most recently they have moved weddings to necessary. A few hundred at the odd wedding don’t change much anymore, but everyone having any kind of party or gathering opens it up to much.

Playing defence, marking your man in the box, even celebrating a goal with team mates are ‘necessary’, but hugging an opponent after the game is just too much.

Doesn’t make sense in total, but it’s a token gesture someone wants/needs to see.


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## GB72 (Jun 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Exactly that. The schedule must be adhered to. And as you say, with Gilmour he must have had contact with at least one other Scotland player, but he'll have been encouraged to say he hasn't, or else they could lose 5, 10 players and then be asking for a delay to their next match.
		
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It does seem slightly mad that there has not been any down time between the rounds as contingency days for covid delays. Not sure that the rules are for a group stage match that does not proceed due to covid.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			OK, that all makes more sense. On the assumption that there were celebrations in the changing rooms afterwards, how does that then allow the Scotland squad to not isolate bearing in mind that they would have been been in contact with a positive case. Surely that would trigget the same isolation requirement for most, if not all, of the match day squad.
		
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You're bang on - and I've no clue how they've avoided it


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## GB72 (Jun 22, 2021)

larmen said:



			I think we can separate the instances into necessary and unnecessary contacts, and they focus on punishing/isolating unnecessary ones.

Same in society, schools are necessary and we take them into account. Raves are not. And most recently they have moved weddings to necessary. A few hundred at the odd wedding don’t change much anymore, but everyone having any kind of party or gathering opens it up to much.

Playing defence, marking your man in the box, even celebrating a goal with team mates are ‘necessary’, but hugging an opponent after the game is just too much.

Doesn’t make sense in total, but it’s a token gesture someone wants/needs to see.
		
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I can see that but then that makes the assumption that Gilmour, as man of the match, was not hugged by any of his team mates after the final whistle. That then brings it in to unnecessary contact. I think that Mount and Chilwell are the PR scapegoats to keep up the appearance of a covid safe environment and it is interesting that their isolation until Monday was only announced after England had qualified last night. Would we have had the same decision or taken it so calmly if we needed a win tonight?


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## SaintHacker (Jun 22, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Winning the odd *free kick* here and there is hardly a bad thing either, if we could beat the first man on a dead ball it would really be something too!
		
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THis, and if only we had a player that scores loads of them for fun...


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## Bdill93 (Jun 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			THis, and if only we had a player that scores loads of them for fun...

Click to expand...

I hope said player is wearing Claret and Blue next year


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## BiMGuy (Jun 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			THis, and if only we had a player that scores loads of them for fun...

Click to expand...

He's scored 10 free kicks in his Premier League career. 4 this season. Hardly scoring for fun. 

Yes he may have scored more this season than any other English player, but that is not a reason to include him in the squad.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I actually like Grealish and he could offer us creativity that we currently lack. It is funny though how on occasions players, in all sports, can improve massively without ever playing. Being injured, being on the bench whilst your colleagues struggle can turn you into a world beater. He is definitely in that category right now.
		
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I do like him,but it’s not like Southgate is leaving Mbappe out,it’s Jack Grealish of Aston Villa 🤷‍♂️😂


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Indeed.. Henderson has become Patrick Vieira all of a sudden
		
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That’s more because of the club he plays for,they tend to be a bit deluded 😊


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			That’s more because of the club he plays for,they tend to be a bit deluded 😊
		
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Lol entitled, deluded fans. Some of the worst around I find ..


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## SaintHacker (Jun 22, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			He's scored 10 free kicks in his Premier League career. 4 this season. Hardly scoring for fun.

Yes he may have scored more this season than any other English player, but that is not a reason to include him in the squad.
		
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How many reasons does Southgate need?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			How many reasons does Southgate need?

View attachment 37166

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Those stats are a bit skewed no? I mean don't get me wrong I want jwp in the squad 

However crosses for example. He played RB at times for you, far more likely to put a cross in from RB than a central midfielder , tackles and clearances could also be affected by this 

Same with dispossessed .. mount for example is very high but his position you will lose the ball more than jwp when playing at RB no?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2021)

For once I agree with Danny Murphy 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57554697

if England want to progress they need to gain momentum- it’s what has happened a number of times , England doing well in the last game of the group game


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## Slime (Jun 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For once I agree with Danny Murphy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57554697

if England want to progress they need to gain momentum- it’s what has happened a number of times , England doing well in the last game of the group game
		
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An ex-Liverpool player wanting a Liverpool player to be picked.
Who'd have thought?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Slime said:



			An ex-Liverpool player wanting a Liverpool player to be picked.
Who'd have thought?



Click to expand...

And Liverpool's biggest plastic fan agreeing with him 🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2021)

Slime said:



			An ex-Liverpool player wanting a Liverpool player to be picked.
Who'd have thought?



Click to expand...

Maybe read the whole article 🙄

And also maybe ignore who Murphy played for because Murphy has spent a lot of time being very negative about Liverpool - but imagine a Man Utd fan highlighting the club allegiance 🙄


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## Slime (Jun 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe read the whole article 🙄

And also maybe ignore who Murphy played for because Murphy has spent a lot of time being very negative about Liverpool - *but imagine a Man Utd fan highlighting the club allegiance *🙄
		
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Comedy gold.


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## Slime (Jun 22, 2021)

Grealish starts!
Saka, Walker and Maguire also to start.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 22, 2021)

Slime said:



			Grealish starts!
Saka, Walker and Maguire also to start.
		
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I was almost excited until I saw Sterling and Kane still in from the start and Foden dropped.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Disappointed that sterling keeps his place. Would have liked Sancho to get a chance but pleased saka is getting a chance 

Grealish aswell

Soucek Vs rice tonight


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2021)

📋 #ENG  side to face #CZE : Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw, Rice, Phillips, Sterling, Grealish, Saka, Kane

🔄 Subs: Johnstone, Ramsdale, Henderson, Rashford, Trippier, Mings, Coady, Sancho, Calvert-Lewin, White, James, Bellingham

Foden dropped totally 🤷‍♂️ 

Sterling starting again 

Guess that’s Grealish starting behind the front three or a back 5 with Saka at wing back and Shaw as a Left CB


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## fundy (Jun 22, 2021)

Id be very surprised if Sakas playing lb or lwb, been a reluctance for arsenal to use him there, i guess wouldnt be the biggest shock for southgate to pop another square peg in a round hole


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## fundy (Jun 22, 2021)

4 at the back, 2 holding mf, sterling (l) grealish saka (r) with kane up top i guess in a 4231


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## The Dog. (Jun 22, 2021)

Either Foden is injured or Southgate is an utter pillock.


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## fundy (Jun 22, 2021)

The Dog. said:



			Either Foden is injured or Southgate is an utter pillock.
		
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every chance its both lol


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## Piece (Jun 22, 2021)

The Dog. said:



			Either Foden is injured or Southgate is an utter pillock.
		
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Yellow card protection?


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## fundy (Jun 22, 2021)

Piece said:



			Yellow card protection?
		
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why didnt he just kick the ball away last game and get a card and sit this one out that way lol


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## Piece (Jun 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			why didnt he just kick the ball away last game and get a card and sit this one out that way lol
		
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Do a Ramos, you mean?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2021)

Good luck to Robbo and his team - will be great to see them qualify


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 37177


Good luck to Robbo and his team - will be great to see them qualify
		
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“Robbo” you too BFF’s Phil? 😂


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## Kellfire (Jun 22, 2021)

Superb by Grealish. The difference.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Superb by Grealish. The difference.
		
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Great team goal aswell but great work from grealish

He is such a threat that we played two right backs against him when we played villa!


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Superb by Grealish. The difference.
		
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Superb 😊


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## Bdill93 (Jun 22, 2021)

I told you so


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## toyboy54 (Jun 22, 2021)

Aw, for efffs sake!! Why are you giving this team so much room and respect?? They'll tear you apart!! Get on top of them/don't let them play their passing game-AND, DO NOT LET THEM SCORE AGAIN (pleez)
Must say though- love the way they stroke the ball around, almost like it's their best friend, a gentle arrogance to the way they play, isn't there? 
Think we need a couple of miracles now though! Anyone agree??


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 22, 2021)

Get in Sterling! Haters gonna hate


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 22, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Get in Sterling! Haters going to hate

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Haters? 
All I saw was people questioning why he wasn’t substituted the last game as he was poor.
Hardly call that hate 😂😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2021)

Hope both teams keep up this intensity- could be a cracking game , Grealish showing exactly what he can bring to a game and Saka certainly sharp

Got to hope Scotland get something back against Croatia


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## MadAdey (Jun 22, 2021)

Finally Southgate actually puts players on the pitch that want to have a go at a defence


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## GreiginFife (Jun 22, 2021)

toyboy54 said:



			Aw, for efffs sake!! Why are you giving this team so much room and respect?? They'll tear you apart!! Get on top of them/don't let them play their passing game-AND, DO NOT LET THEM SCORE AGAIN (pleez)
Must say though- love the way they stroke the ball around, almost like it's their best friend, a gentle arrogance to the way they play, isn't there?
Think we need a couple of miracles now though! Anyone agree??
		
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No, we need a manager that has a plan B and some idea of what a decent player is. 
We also need someone that can actually find the net.


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## GreiginFife (Jun 22, 2021)

That'll do


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## upsidedown (Jun 22, 2021)

Corker of a goal


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## BrianM (Jun 22, 2021)

Scotland doing ok, but Modric is absolutely world class, we can hardly get near him.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 22, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			Finally Southgate actually puts players on the pitch that want to have a go at a defence
		
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Want to see sterling replaced see what others can do ..


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Phil's wet dream has occured

The victory will go down to him ofc


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## Kellfire (Jun 22, 2021)

Here comes England’s Lion Heart. He single-handedly eradicated the world of small pox, did you know?


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## MadAdey (Jun 22, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Want to see sterling replaced see what others can do ..
		
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Nice to see Hendo given a run out


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Here comes England’s Lion Heart. He single-handedly eradicated the world of small pox, did you know?
		
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I heard he single handedly made the covid vaccine


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 22, 2021)

Henderson’s on


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## Kellfire (Jun 22, 2021)

Can’t believe Grealish had the temerity to not be seven foot tall to be on the end of that perfect cross from Jesus Henderson.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			Nice to see Hendo given a run out
		
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Looks like a bit of change in the set up as well - pushing Henderson forward a bit more into the 8 role leaving just one sitting , good to see a change in thinking looking to get on the front foot more


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 22, 2021)

Great going forward but we still look very slow playing out from the back.
Shaw had a good half for me.
Sterling does look better more central.
Saka and Grealish the difference.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like a bit of change in the set up as well - pushing Henderson forward a bit more into the 8 role leaving just one sitting , good to see a change in thinking looking to get on the front foot more
		
Click to expand...

So Hendo is playing where Philips was, and Philips is moving back to where Rice was. Not really a change of formation.


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## fundy (Jun 22, 2021)

good to see modric looking well past it again


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## upsidedown (Jun 22, 2021)

Argh


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 22, 2021)

Take a bow modric


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			So Hendo is playing where Philips was, and Philips is moving back to where Rice was. Not really a change of formation.
		
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The moving of Phillips back seems to have made us lose our zip 

Almost like a half fit player can't do the same job 

Hopefully the next lot of subs will bring it back


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## toyboy54 (Jun 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			good to see modric looking well past it again 

Click to expand...

Guy's still got it ( in spades-allowed to say that  ? )
What a goal----TBH we're really not in their class are we??
If we ( somehow ) get a result out of this then I think we will have been 'PURE DEAD JAMMY' ( Glasgow Patois-don't you know )


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## Piece (Jun 22, 2021)

Did I just see Stones on the right wing?! 😂😮


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## Jimaroid (Jun 22, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How about we stop the “tit for tat” childish comments before this thread gets locked!

Click to expand...

Shame it’s mostly just tit though.


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## Kellfire (Jun 22, 2021)

Change your pants, Phil. Offside.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Change your pants, Phil. Offside.
		
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Humble pie returned to the fridge 🤣


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## paddyc (Jun 22, 2021)

Really cannot  understand  why Southgate  not thrown on Sancho ( he gives him 7 mins👏👏 or DCL  Kane ineffective  Takes Grealish off instead giving him a whole game Why?. Rashford  on again despite  not showing anything  in last two appearances. brings on Mings whose played both games.
Apart from goal we have been average again and allowed  Checks to stay in game. 
Need to improve  massively  to get past last 16.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Really cannot  understand  why Southgate  not thrown on Sancho ( he gives him 7 mins👏👏 or DCL  Kane ineffective  Takes Grealish off instead giving him a whole game Why?. Rashford  on again despite  not showing anything  in last two appearances. brings on Mings whose played both games.
Apart from goal we have been average again and allowed  Checks to stay in game. 
Need to improve  massively  to get past last 16.
		
Click to expand...

We looked good first half 

Can understand the change at half time he wants Henderson to get some game time (Phil been on the blower to him) to get some fitness 

Great to see Bellingham come on but agree Ming's and hardly any mins for sancho just seems like why ..


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## Kellfire (Jun 22, 2021)

You’d think Kane must be dropped now, it’s baffling he doesn’t at least give DCL a half to see if it could work.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You’d think Kane must be dropped now, it’s baffling he doesn’t at least give DCL a half to see if it could work.
		
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Age old problem with England 

Names can't be dropped 

I was hoping he was going to get a brace tonight to get some confidence..


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## Kellfire (Jun 22, 2021)

Any big team will fancy playing England in the next round. Three insipid performances against average sides.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 22, 2021)

First half good. Second half not so good. 

But we're through without conceding a goal. Need to improve to go much further in the competition and play like we did in the first half of this game rather than how we played in the two previous games and in the second half of this game.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 22, 2021)

Much better. 

Moving Phillips back really slowed things down as we lost that link through midfield to the front. White in for Rice would have been a better option. 

Kane was awful again. And Rashford is a waste of a place. 

That aside, pretty happy with that performance. 


Well done Scotland for scoring a goal.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 22, 2021)

Southgate keeping Kane on to get match fit lol.


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## 3offTheTee (Jun 22, 2021)

My Mrs know very little about football but not averse to the odd swear words. Her  comments tonight “That Harry Kane want to buck his “flipping“ ideas up”! Flipping may have been altered because of children on here but very true


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## DaveR (Jun 22, 2021)

@pauljames87 
@Kellfire 

You two need to get a grip and start posting sensible stuff rather than trying to wind up other posters 🤦‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Much better. 

Moving Phillips back really slowed things down as we lost that link through midfield to the front. White in for Rice would have been a better option. 

Kane was awful again. And Rashford is a waste of a place. 

That aside, pretty happy with that performance. 


Well done Scotland for scoring a goal.
		
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Could you not put Henderson in for rice in the actual holding role as he can play that?


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## BrianM (Jun 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Take a bow modric
		
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Just a superb player and makes it look so easy, dominated the midfield tonight.


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## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2021)

I couldn't understand why he played Saka and not Sancho. Saka played really well though. Grealish made something happen, which is why we all wanted him to play, so fair play him. Honestly, the rest of it was pretty dire to watch again. For all the attacking talent, we're still like watching paint dry. But the main thing is we've got through the group. (One of the easiest groups.) 

Germany, Portugal or France next round so then we'll really see what we're about.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 22, 2021)

I get the defensive thing, but you can be defensive and still create. Too many back passes still the midfield lacked physical bite. Saka was awesome Grealish was good , but Sterling.. no. Henderson changed the momentum, like him or not he created impetus. 
Kane was better , but DCL needs a run out, and Sancho needs to be on. Jude Bellingham I don’t know but I want to see more before offering an opinion


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## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Take a bow modric
		
Click to expand...

That goal was incredible. Top 3 for the tournament so far.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Could you not put Henderson in for rice in the actual holding role as he can play that?
		
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If he was fit that would be ideal.


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## 4LEX (Jun 22, 2021)

The first half gave a glimpse into the potential and quality of this England side. The second half reflected Southgate's negative hold on the side. Yes players got minutes and the half was disjointed but holding onto a 1-0 win is the Mourinho way and he'll do the same when it counts.

Glad to see Scotland go out after their idiotic fans invaded London and took nothing more than a point and the Delta variant back with them


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## harpo_72 (Jun 22, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			My Mrs know very little about football but not averse to the odd swear words. Her  comments tonight “That Harry Kane want to buck his “flipping“ ideas up”! Flipping may have been altered because of children on here but very true
		
Click to expand...

He will struggle to get a big money move off this …


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			He will struggle to get a big money move off this …
		
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Maybe that's his game .. he knows levy too tight to sell him so driving down his value to get the move lolv


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## Beezerk (Jun 22, 2021)

Glad Scotland got to celebrate their 0-0 cup final draw in style 🙌 🤣


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## BiMGuy (Jun 22, 2021)

Only English fans would complain about topping their group without conceding.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Glad Scotland got to celebrate their 0-0 cup final draw in style 🙌 🤣
		
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They're going home , they're going...


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Only English fans would complain about topping their group without conceding.
		
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We are a nation of complainers and moaners yet get our backs up when people call us it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I get the defensive thing, but you can be defensive and still create. Too many back passes still the midfield lacked physical bite. Saka was awesome Grealish was good , but Sterling.. no. Henderson changed the momentum, like him or not he created impetus.
Kane was better , but DCL needs a run out, and Sancho needs to be on. Jude Bellingham I don’t know but I want to see more before offering an opinion
		
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A lot of times the players seemed to be scared to try things , that’s what made both Saka and Grealish look so much better - they played without fear and tried things but there was a huge gap at times between the front 4 and the back , when Henderson went on he looked to fill that gap and drag the back line closer to bring in a higher press 

Kane really looks shot , no confidence or energy , it was a very good finish from Sterling but he was annoymous beyond that. DCL should have been given a good 30 mins and also Sancho , Bellingham just looked out of sorts 

I expect for the game against France/Germany etc he will go back to the team from the first game - missed a chance today to get some minutes for some players


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## SaintHacker (Jun 22, 2021)

DaveR said:



@pauljames87
@Kellfire

You two need to get a grip and start posting sensible stuff rather than trying to wind up other posters 🤦‍♂️
		
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Yep, verging on playground bullying. Embarrassing really.


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## Kellfire (Jun 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Yep, verging on playground bullying. Embarrassing really.
		
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A mild taking of the pee over a biased football fan. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s certainly not bullying and it’s part of the game.


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## 4LEX (Jun 22, 2021)

Kane is building up fitness, he's still one of the best strikers in the world. You don't lose that in 3 games FFS. He's had one chance in 3 games due to the rubbish service and negative tactics. 

DCL is decent but he wouldn't get a game at any club in the Top 6. That's his level. England's best chance is giving Kane minutes to build fitness and hoping Southgate stumbles on his best formation and starting eleven.

This tournament has disaster written all over it though.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			A mild taking of the pee over a biased football fan. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s certainly not bullying and it’s part of the game.
		
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Except when it's directed at someone who can give it but can't take it 😴


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## Beezerk (Jun 22, 2021)




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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 22, 2021)

I understand the frustration with Kane, but as much as DCL has had a good season he isn’t the answer, DCL is excellent at holding the ball up, but that’s no good if the support following up doesn’t happen.

Most of his goals come inside the box and right now I don’t think England as a team are providing the chances, that’s why you get Kane, Sterling etc dropping too far back.

I know it’ll never happen but if you played Kane and DCL together you’d get more from DCL and they’d work well together imo.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 22, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Kane is building up fitness, he's still one of the best strikers in the world. You don't lose that in 3 games FFS. He's had one chance in 3 games due to the rubbish service and negative tactics.

DCL is decent but he wouldn't get a game at any club in the Top 6. That's his level. England's best chance is giving Kane minutes to build fitness and hoping Southgate stumbles on his best formation and starting eleven.

This tournament has disaster written all over it though.
		
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We miss Vardy … we never looked for a similar striker to replace him. We do well when we have a fast striker .. or maybe the answer is to play someone quick close to Kane, instead of wide or behind him.


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## 3offTheTee (Jun 22, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			He will struggle to get a big money move off this …
		
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Aye but she probably know as much as some of the ‘experts’ on here!


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 22, 2021)

Kane just looks like he knows the balls not coming quick enough.
In the box he’s on the back foot and not getting across the front of the defenders.
But he won a few headers from long kicks with nobody getting past him to pick them up.

but two wins and a draw with no goals against is very good.
Even if it’s not very good to watch.
We will need to improve to go further.
Better opposition might make us step it up. Hopefully!


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## 4LEX (Jun 22, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			We miss Vardy … we never looked for a similar striker to replace him. We do well when we have a fast striker .. or maybe the answer is to play someone quick close to Kane, instead of wide or behind him.
		
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We've got the fastest wide forwards in the world in Rashford and Sancho, the most productive too based on goals and assists. Yet both have hardly got a kick.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 22, 2021)

If England football team were a vehicle it would be a wheelbarrow.
And as Notts  county would sing " the wheels fell off ".


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## Val (Jun 22, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Any big team will fancy playing England in the next round. Three insipid performances against average sides.
		
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That's because England are also an average side.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If England football team were a vehicle it would be a wheelbarrow.
And as Notts  county would sing " the wheels fell off ".
		
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Nah a reliant robin 

Can do a job but soon as they try and push they tip over


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## Val (Jun 22, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The first half gave a glimpse into the potential and quality of this England side. The second half reflected Southgate's negative hold on the side. Yes players got minutes and the half was disjointed but holding onto a 1-0 win is the Mourinho way and he'll do the same when it counts.

Glad to see Scotland go out after their idiotic fans invaded London and took nothing more than a point and the Delta variant back with them 

Click to expand...

On your 3 performances chances are you'll have 1 more game and out too


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

Val said:



			On your 3 performances chances are you'll have 1 more game and out too
		
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Always nice to get past the group tho .


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 22, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I understand the frustration with Kane, but as much as DCL has had a good season he isn’t the answer, DCL is excellent at holding the ball up, but that’s no good if the support following up doesn’t happen.

Most of his goals come inside the box and right now I don’t think England as a team are providing the chances, that’s why you get Kane, Sterling etc dropping too far back.

*I know it’ll never happen but if you played Kane and DCL together you’d get more from DCL and they’d work well together imo.*

Click to expand...

Generally I agree. The only alternative that I can see, and again it's one that I don't think will ever happen, is to try some Pep tactics and play Foden (?) in the false 9 position and go for a 4-1-4-1 formation. Pickford, Trippier, McGuire, Stones, Shaw, Rice, Sterling, Grealish, Henderson/Mount, Saka/Sancho, Foden. Let's get as much of our attacking talent on the pitch as possible and let the opposition worry about us rather than us worrying about them.

Doesn't necessarily have to be Foden in the false 9, could stick Sterling up there and just have a completely mobile front 5.


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## Val (Jun 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Always nice to get past the group tho .
		
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For a team like England it's the semi you should be aiming for, not getting out of the group. Serial underachievers.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 22, 2021)

Well done England...I suppose...😻😘. At least my daughter is happy; my Mrs is a little more than half-happy, and my lad split 50:50, with this evenings results...and I can go with that 👍


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

I had a go at mount for it so only fair 

For crying out loud you 3. Learn. We just lost 2 players because of covid rules now your risking more ?

Doesn't help Southgate setting example by hugging the oppo manager 

Henderson did it correctly.. just fist pumps

ITS NOT HARD


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## Beezerk (Jun 22, 2021)

Val said:



			For a team like England it's the semi you should be aiming for, not getting out of the group. Serial underachievers.
		
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Would you like a chaser with that pint of bitter? 😅


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 22, 2021)

Val said:



			For a team like England it's the semi you should be aiming for, not getting out of the group. *Serial underachievers.*

Click to expand...

I wouldn't agree with the bit in bold. I think the only recent squad that has underachieved is the "Golden Generation" with Lampard/Gerrard/Scholes/Beckham etc in the squad that should have done better than they did. Looking at the Euros there's Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, England + 2 others that would be expecting quarter final as a minimum. Get a decent draw and they're expecting a semi final, but easy to go out in the quarters when you come up against another big team. When you get to a World Cup and throw in Brazil and Argentina then quarter final is about right as an expectation with the hope of doing better than that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Generally I agree. The only alternative that I can see, and again it's one that I don't think will ever happen, is to try some Pep tactics and play Foden (?) in the false 9 position and go for a 4-1-4-1 formation. Pickford, Trippier, McGuire, Stones, Shaw, Rice, Sterling, Grealish, Henderson/Mount, Saka/Sancho, Foden. Let's get as much of our attacking talent on the pitch as possible and let the opposition worry about us rather than us worrying about them.

Doesn't necessarily have to be Foden in the false 9, could stick Sterling up there and just have a completely mobile front 5.
		
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You’re forgetting one thing…Southgate.

Next Match - guaranteed starters(barring injury):

Pickford
Maquire
Sterling
Kane.

Now find 7 others.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 22, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re forgetting one thing…Southgate.

Next Match - guaranteed starters(barring injury):

Pickford
Maquire
Sterling
Kane.

Now find 7 others.

Click to expand...

Think Shaw should be in he played well imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think Shaw should be in he played well imo.
		
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Wooooosh
There’s a few who should be in and some of them 4 who shouldn’t, but it’s Southgate.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Wooooosh
There’s a few who should be in and some of them 4 who shouldn’t, but it’s Southgate.

Click to expand...

------------------pickford

Tripper----stones ---maguire -- Shaw 

------------------rice ---grealish 

Sterling -------foden---------saka 

----------------------kane


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			------------------pickford

Tripper----stones ---maguire -- Shaw

------------------rice ---grealish

Sterling -------foden---------saka

----------------------rice
		
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I know Rice is good but I'm not sure even he's good enough to play as a holding midfielder and centre forward at the same time.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I know Rice is good but I'm not sure even he's good enough to play as a holding midfielder and centre forward at the same time. 

Click to expand...

For some reason my phone auto corrects rice and Kane lol 

But who knows Kane likes to play midfield and this is Southgate .. stick Declan up top


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## Val (Jun 22, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Would you like a chaser with that pint of bitter? 😅
		
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Not bitter whatsoever. We had no expectations in this tournament, weakest side on the group and finished bottom as expected. The serial underachievers failed to beat us. I'd be bitter if I was an England fan tbh, in fact I'd feel cheated. Large nation with a team of superstars that failed to beat Scotland, a small nation with 2 top class talents and a bunch of grafters. 

Gloat all you like, you won't get bitterness from me, far from it on fact. Football is 3rd place in the sports I follow.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 22, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Wooooosh
There’s a few who should be in and some of them 4 who shouldn’t, but it’s Southgate.

Click to expand...

Thing is , if your going to base your team on the defence then you need a stable back line.
Shaw for me Maguire,Stones and ?
Walker was ok but just dosnt see the forward pass quick enough.


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## Piece (Jun 23, 2021)

First half was ok and the second half crap. After watching these three Eng games, we have good players, made up to be a bang average side by Mr Southgate.


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## chrisd (Jun 23, 2021)

Val said:



			Not bitter whatsoever. We had no expectations in this tournament, weakest side on the group and finished bottom as expected. The serial underachievers failed to beat us. I'd be bitter if I was an England fan tbh, in fact I'd feel cheated. Large nation with a team of superstars that failed to beat Scotland, a small nation with 2 top class talents and a bunch of grafters.

Gloat all you like, you won't get bitterness from me, far from it on fact. Football is 3rd place in the sports I follow.
		
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The serial underachievers did however manage to do exactly what was necessary, they won their group, progressed to the last 16 and are still there to stand a chance of turning into achievers. I'm not suggesting that we will beat the likes of France or Germany, Italy etc but the teams who win the tournament usually start slowly and improve as the tournament goes on, I've seen Germany do this a number of times.

Let's face it, Scotland's only wish was to beat England,  they didnt do it no matter how much they upped their game, it strikes me as similar to 1966, they have lived on beating us in our first game after we won the World Cup and have lived on it ever since - it meant nothing to England fans any more than last weeks result does, our "auld enemy" is Germany or Brazil etc etc , not Scotland. Maybe Scotland should look at how to get through to a knockout stage which, in my opinion, was not beyond them from that group but no, beating England was the be all and end all, the only goal they had!


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## Junior (Jun 23, 2021)

Love to see a starting XI with Grealish, Foden and Saka.  What are the odds though?


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Kane is building up fitness, he's still one of the best strikers in the world. You don't lose that in 3 games FFS. He's had one chance in 3 games due to the rubbish service and negative tactics.

DCL is decent but he wouldn't get a game at any club in the Top 6. That's his level. England's best chance is giving Kane minutes to build fitness and hoping Southgate stumbles on his best formation and starting eleven.

This tournament has disaster written all over it though.
		
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100% agree with that. Wanted to write something similar last night but figured I'd just get written off as a biased Spurs fan. But anyone seriously thinking DCL will come in against Germany or France is kidding themselves. Kane is a world class striker, if we actually created 5 or 6 chances he would score 1 or 2, but we just haven't. He did finally have one good chance last night, but the keeper made a very good save. Other than that he's had nothing but scraps to feed on. DCL is levels below Kane, to think he'd do any better on this kind of service is laughable. He's someone you throw on late on when you need a goal and you start lumping balls into the box.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 23, 2021)

Junior said:



			Love to see a starting XI with Grealish, Foden and Saka.  What are the odds though?
		
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If he can drop / rest sterling then very high! 
I think to an extent the England manager job is ridiculous. You have the press trying to get you into trouble (aka Big Sam) or making up stories (Venebles and Bashier) . Then the premier league has too many teams and plays too many games .. so you get knackered players. The premiership pays too much , and actually certain pay grades should only be attainable if you deliver at international level ( that is a motivation technique plus cost cutting) 
Scotland- actually under performed against Croatia they should have won 1-0 , but got slack or burnt themselves out trying to beat England (who were poor, no denying).
They were also naive against the Czechs .

The other point is I have not seen the English play like a premiership side. They have had a defence , yes, but it’s wobbly. They have not played at the pace or aggression either .. so for me I think international football is decidedly bland and poor to watch .. I want to see our best players playing premiership football which is undoubtedly the best league in the world


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 37181


I had a go at mount for it so only fair

For crying out loud you 3. Learn. We just lost 2 players because of covid rules now your risking more ?

Doesn't help Southgate setting example by hugging the oppo manager

Henderson did it correctly.. just fist pumps

ITS NOT HARD
		
Click to expand...

They showed a bit on telly after this where he then stood a metre away to continue the conversation and somebody brought him a mask to wear as well. So now that that's been seen on telly he should be fine.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			100% agree with that. Wanted to write something similar last night but figured I'd just get written off as a biased Spurs fan. But anyone seriously thinking DCL will come in against Germany or France is kidding themselves. Kane is a world class striker, if we actually created 5 or 6 chances he would score 1 or 2, but we just haven't. He did finally have one good chance last night, but the keeper made a very good save. Other than that he's had nothing but scraps to feed on. DCL is levels below Kane, to think he'd do any better on this kind of service is laughable. He's someone you throw on late on when you need a goal and you start lumping balls into the box.
		
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That’s a poor return for world class.. 5-6 chances should yield 4 or more goals look at the top strikers the conversion rate is greater


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## BiMGuy (Jun 23, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			That’s a poor return for world class.. 5-6 chances should yield 4 or more goals look at the top strikers the conversion rate is greater
		
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Which world class striker has an 80 to 90 percent conversion rate?


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## Val (Jun 23, 2021)

chrisd said:



			The serial underachievers did however manage to do exactly what was necessary, they won their group, progressed to the last 16 and are still there to stand a chance of turning into achievers. I'm not suggesting that we will beat the likes of France or Germany, Italy etc but the teams who win the tournament usually start slowly and improve as the tournament goes on, I've seen Germany do this a number of times.

Let's face it, Scotland's only wish was to beat England,  they didnt do it no matter how much they upped their game, it strikes me as similar to 1966, they have lived on beating us in our first game after we won the World Cup and have lived on it ever since - it meant nothing to England fans any more than last weeks result does, our "auld enemy" is Germany or Brazil etc etc , not Scotland. Maybe Scotland should look at how to get through to a knockout stage which, in my opinion, was not beyond them from that group but no, beating England was the be all and end all, the only goal they had!
		
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Of course the aim was to get out the group but look at who was on front of us for the 2 slots, England at Wembley, Croatia who were world Cup finalists not too long ago. The Czechs are a good side and above us in the rankings, no mugs.

It's all about realism, we had a chance before it began but a slim chance requiring poor performances from all teams and us to be at our best.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Which world class striker has an 80 to 90 percent conversion rate?
		
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Ronaldo (Brazil) , lukaku is knocking on the door or shall we say has a better conversion rate than Kane currently ( past form is history and we have to be brutal - today is what matters)


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## BiMGuy (Jun 23, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Ronaldo (Brazil) , lukaku is knocking on the door or shall we say has a better conversion rate than Kane currently ( past form is history and we have to be brutal - today is what matters)
		
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So we are talking about conversion rate in the tournament not overall. Because no one gets anywhere the % you mentioned otherwise. 

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...onaldo-jamie-vardy-pierre-emerick-aubameyang/


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			That’s a poor return for world class.. 5-6 chances should yield 4 or more goals look at the top strikers the conversion rate is greater
		
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Are you mental? I said he was world class, not that he was superhuman.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Are you mental? I said he was world class, not that he was superhuman. 

Click to expand...

Looking at his record, club is always exceptional

Country he has 2 goals in his last 11 games which isn't so good 

Got to be tactical tho. Wish he would stop dropping deep.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			stop dropping deep.
		
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This. 

Spuds fans complaining hes not scoring because he doesn't get any service. Its hard to cross the ball to someone who isn't in the box.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			This. 

Spuds fans complaining hes not scoring because he doesn't get any service. Its hard to cross the ball to someone who isn't in the box.
		
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Its got to be Southgate tho hasn't it .. his instructions

Best striker in England and top 3 in the world? Anyways whatever he is .. you get him to drop deep ...

Rice he limits to only CDM, break up and pass to another player . Which is fine but means he will always get slated by fans who want dynamic play, totally different player for his club and why the big clubs keep sniffing.

Tripper. Just won la Liga as a right back. Cracking player. Played once at left back and then dropped

Grealish very talented player. Benched for the most so far 

Phillips was the best player against Croatia was he not? Since then hasn't looked it as he's been bogged down defending rather than if you are going to use rice there just let him do it and let Phillips get up more .. quality player


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Looking at his record, club is always exceptional

Country he has 2 goals in his last 11 games which isn't so good

Got to be tactical tho. Wish he would stop dropping deep.
		
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We had exactly the same issue with Rooney before him so we should have figured it out by now. 

Honestly, he's not a one man band and never has been. At Spurs, if the team is playing rubbish, he generally won't score. He's not going to pick the ball up from his own box, dribble past 7 players and bang it in. He drops deep because he likes to get involved in the play in more ways, and it makes him more difficult to mark for the defenders. His biggest strength is that he never loses confidence in himself, so if the team starts playing well and creating the chances, he will absolutely start scoring again. He rarely ever goes more than 4 games without scoring a goal.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			This.

Spuds fans complaining hes not scoring because he doesn't get any service. Its hard to cross the ball to someone who isn't in the box.
		
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He has dropped deep for Spurs all season, and we were poor yet he still managed 23 goals. It's not just about crossing it, we're not managed by Sean Dyche.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			We had exactly the same issue with Rooney before him so we should have figured it out by now. 

Honestly, he's not a one man band and never has been. At Spurs, if the team is playing rubbish, he generally won't score. He's not going to pick the ball up from his own box, dribble past 7 players and bang it in. He drops deep because he likes to get involved in the play in more ways, and it makes him more difficult to mark for the defenders. His biggest strength is that he never loses confidence in himself, so if the team starts playing well and creating the chances, he will absolutely start scoring again. He rarely ever goes more than 4 games without scoring a goal.
		
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Might not get a chance tho if we don't get through next week tho so has to take his chances when they come, could tell he wanted a goal badly yest as there was that chance he went too far with the shot when sterling was unmarked


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## BiMGuy (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He has dropped deep for Spurs all season, and we were poor yet he still managed 23 goals. It's not just about crossing it, we're not managed by Sean Dyche.
		
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I know I was just fishing for a bite 🎣


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## GB72 (Jun 23, 2021)

2 minds about the group stages. Performances have been uninspiring but we have won the group and not conceded, most players have had some time on the pitch, no injuries and no massively draining matches. I guess in the group stages, the most important thing is not to lose as opposed to go for the outright win at the risk of losing and that is what we have done. That only means anything though if there are improvements made on Tuesday night.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

GB72 said:



			2 minds about the group stages. Performances have been uninspiring but we have won the group and not conceded, most players have had some time on the pitch, no injuries and no massively draining matches. I guess in the group stages, the most important thing is not to lose as opposed to go for the outright win at the risk of losing and that is what we have done. That only means anything though if there are improvements made on Tuesday night.
		
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One good thing about covid is the world cup isn't far away only December 2022

Seeing the likes of Bellingham and saka now they are bright talents


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## harpo_72 (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			So we are talking about conversion rate in the tournament not overall. Because no one gets anywhere the % you mentioned otherwise.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...onaldo-jamie-vardy-pierre-emerick-aubameyang/

Click to expand...

Then that shows defensive quality and possibly the strikers are not as good or not as well serviced .. but where is Kane in this lot?
Also that stat is just capturing selfish play .. doesn’t really add much to the discussion except Vardy is class


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			One good thing about covid is the world cup isn't far away only December 2022

Seeing the likes of Bellingham and saka now they are bright talents
		
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If we go out in the next round, do we think Southgate will be let go? Or even stand down? They might think with such a short gap to the next tournament that it doesn't give a new manager enough time.


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## Kellfire (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If we go out in the next round, do we think Southgate will be let go? Or even stand down? They might think with such a short gap to the next tournament that it doesn't give a new manager enough time.
		
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 Hopefully he goes to manage Spurs.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If we go out in the next round, do we think Southgate will be let go? Or even stand down? They might think with such a short gap to the next tournament that it doesn't give a new manager enough time.
		
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I'm not sure

Whilst there isn't a lot of time it's still 18 months Ish rather than just 12 and normally would be 2 years so might be enough 


Not sure with southgate, I mean is he basically big Sam? The fans don't like because it isn't pretty but it works


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Hopefully he goes to manage Spurs. 

Click to expand...

Even unemployed managers are turning them down they won't get someone so well dressed 

I've put my hat in the ring for a laugh I'm through to interview stage


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Hopefully he goes to manage Spurs. 

Click to expand...

No thanks! We're bad enough as it is.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			No thanks! We're bad enough as it is.
		
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Could work, I mean he really likes sterling 

City offering sterling and laporte for Kane (apparently)

The ground work is there


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			100% agree with that. Wanted to write something similar last night but figured I'd just get written off as a biased Spurs fan. But anyone seriously thinking DCL will come in against Germany or France is kidding themselves. Kane is a world class striker, if we actually created 5 or 6 chances he would score 1 or 2, but we just haven't. He did finally have one good chance last night, but the keeper made a very good save. Other than that he's had nothing but scraps to feed on. DCL is levels below Kane, to think he'd do any better on this kind of service is laughable. *He's someone you throw on late on when you need a goal and you start lumping balls into the box.*

Click to expand...

I was just at the point of agreeing 100% with you until the bit in bold.

That’s not DCL at all, yes he can jump, but he’s still not as good as Kane, if we’ve got to the point of needing a goal and lumping balls in to the box, leave Kane on! You know better than me he’s one of the best at taking chances in the box.
It would be of benefit to Kane to shove DCL on for Kane to feed off.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I was just at the point of agreeing 100% with you until the bit in bold.

That’s not DCL at all, yes he can jump, but he’s still not as good as Kane, if we’ve got to the point of needing a goal and lumping balls in to the box, leave Kane on! You know better than me he’s one of the best at taking chances in the box.
It would be of benefit to Kane to shove DCL on for Kane to feed off.
		
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I never implied it would be in place of Kane.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I was just at the point of agreeing 100% with you until the bit in bold.

That’s not DCL at all, yes he can jump, but he’s still not as good as Kane, if we’ve got to the point of needing a goal and lumping balls in to the box, leave Kane on! You know better than me he’s one of the best at taking chances in the box.
It would be of benefit to Kane to shove DCL on for Kane to feed off.
		
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This is why I couldn't understand taking DCL over Bamford. DCL doesn't offer anything different to Kane, just a not quite as good version of the same thing. 

Bamford would at least give some energy and create space and hold the ball up for the midfield 3 to join in.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2021)

Id like to see Foden dropped for Saka in the next round, we look so much better playing actual wingers on the wing. 

Wont happen, but in 90 mins he did more than Foden did in 2 games.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			This is why I couldn't understand taking DCL over Bamford. DCL doesn't offer anything different to Kane, just a not quite as good version of the same thing. 

Bamford would at least give some energy and create space and hold the ball up for the midfield 3 to join in.
		
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I like bamford , not only is he a decent striker (would suit us so much) he seems in touch with us mere mortals ..


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			This is why I couldn't understand taking DCL over Bamford. DCL doesn't offer anything different to Kane, just a not quite as good version of the same thing.

Bamford would at least give some energy and create space and hold the ball up for the midfield 3 to join in.
		
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I do agree with that. Could have at least left Greenwood or Watkins in the final squad.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			This is why I couldn't understand taking DCL over Bamford. DCL doesn't offer anything different to Kane, just a not quite as good version of the same thing.

Bamford would at least give some energy and create space and hold the ball up for the midfield 3 to join in.
		
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When the midfield 3 actually make it in to the attacking 3rd that is … and that’s primarily the selection issue.
It’s telling that City are rumoured to be putting Laporte and Sterling up for Kane .. Sterling is out of form currently and it looks like his manager cannot be bothered to persist with him. But Kane just isn’t that valuable, Son made him look good at Spurs this season … (a neutrals view - Spurs are a disappointing watch in general)


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I do agree with that. Could have at least left Greenwood or Watkins in the final squad.
		
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 greenwood was injured but Watkins would be an excellent choice


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			This is why I couldn't understand taking DCL over Bamford. DCL doesn't offer anything different to Kane, just a not quite as good version of the same thing.

Bamford would at least give some energy and create space and hold the ball up for the midfield 3 to join in.
		
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Unfortunately for Bamford, I believe he’s (wrongly) seen a a journeyman who’s had a good season, people forget he’s only 27.

DCL has had a good season and I think Southgate only prefers him as he’s slightly younger and has worked with him in the past.

Bamford was worth the risk over DCL imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I never implied it would be in place of Kane. 

Click to expand...

No, but you were replying to posts who were.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			When the midfield 3 actually make it in to the attacking 3rd that is … and that’s primarily the selection issue.
It’s telling that City are rumoured to be putting Laporte and Sterling up for Kane .. Sterling is out of form currently and it looks like his manager cannot be bothered to persist with him. But Kane just isn’t that valuable, Son made him look good at Spurs this season … (a neutrals view - Spurs are a disappointing watch in general)
		
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I dunno I rather enjoyed watching spurs last year 🤭


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Id like to see Foden dropped for Saka in the next round, we look so much better playing actual wingers on the wing.

Wont happen, but in 90 mins he did more than Foden did in 2 games.
		
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I like Foden but I don't see him as a winger, I think he does his best work driving through the middle. I always said I would have had Foden as the number 10, with Grealish wide left, and a pacey direct player like Sancho on the right.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			greenwood was injured but Watkins would be an excellent choice
		
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BiMGuy said:



			This is why I couldn't understand taking DCL over Bamford. DCL doesn't offer anything different to Kane, just a not quite as good version of the same thing.

Bamford would at least give some energy and create space and hold the ball up for the midfield 3 to join in.
		
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Dont rate DCL at all for England. 

It wasnt DCL over Bamford though, hes about 5th in the pecking order for England


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			No, but you were replying to posts who were.

Click to expand...

So in essence you were disagreeing with them, not me.  But yeah, my point was his role in the squad is another guy to throw on when we need a goal, I don't think he's there to take Kane's place, bar injuring or resting him etc.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I like Foden but I don't see him as a winger, I think he does his best work driving through the middle. I always said I would have had Foden as the number 10, with Grealish wide left, and a pacey direct player like Sancho on the right.
		
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I cannot be having Sterling not in anyones line up now... He's got 2 in 3 and our only goalscorer..

Meanwhile JG has the most assists (3) in the last 15 games for England... and hes played in half of those games


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## harpo_72 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I dunno I rather enjoyed watching spurs last year 🤭
		
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Yeah Son was entertaining… the rest were boring 🤣


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2021)

My starting line up for England after 3 played - 

                Pickford
Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw
            Hendo, Rice
      Saka, Grealish, Sterling
                  Kane

Notes 
Mings did great, Maguire is the next level above unfortunately.
Id like to see Chillwell play, dont get why GS doesnt like him - plus in isolation.
Id drop Hendo for Mount if he wasnt missing the next week of training. 
Cant drop Sterling
Saka will probs be dropped for Foden, but I dont think thats deserved after last nights performance and would be GS's big club bias playing its part.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I cannot be having Sterling not in anyones line up now... He's got 2 in 3 and our only goalscorer..

Meanwhile JG has the most assists (3) in the last 15 games for England... and hes played in half of those games 

Click to expand...

I was just talking about my preference at the start. Obviously Sterling won't be dropped now. Since we've got a week until we play now, I feel sure that Henderson will play, with either Rice or Phillips. I also have a sneaky suspicion that as we'll be playing someone good, he may revert back to the 5-3-2, which means either Grealish or Foden left out for sure. I can certainly see him going for Trippier-Walker-Stones-Maguire-Shaw, Hendo & Rice, Foden, Sterling & Kane.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I cannot be having Sterling not in anyones line up now... He's got 2 in 3 and our only goalscorer..

Meanwhile JG has the most assists (3) in the last 15 games for England... and hes played in half of those games 

Click to expand...

Southgates original stance was playing time was more important than names and how form would be most important 

That brings in grealish, lingard and wardprowse

But grealish isn't at a big club (no offence meant)
Lingard isn't technically as good but was in form 

Wardprowse not at big club 

Players are encouraged to leave to get first team football to better their international chances but then aren't picked ...Sancho for example 

I would bet a lot of cash that if grealish and sancho had their moves to spurs and United they would defo be in the first team ..

Sterling is a fine example 

He plays for a big club, If he was outside of England playing for like Lyon banging them in wouldn't be near the first team


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Southgates original stance was playing time was more important than names and how form would be most important

That brings in grealish, lingard and wardprowse

But grealish isn't at a big club (no offence meant)
Lingard isn't technically as good but was in form

Wardprowse not at big club

Players are encouraged to leave to get first team football to better their international chances but then aren't picked ...Sancho for example

I would bet a lot of cash that if grealish and sancho had their moves to spurs and United they would defo be in the first team ..

Sterling is a fine example

He plays for a big club, If he was outside of England playing for like Lyon banging them in wouldn't be near the first team
		
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Hey... you watch out for AVFC.. dont sleep on us, we're going places under our new owners. One step at a time!

Spurs arent a big club, they just have a big stadium.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Hey... you watch out for AVFC.. dont sleep on us, we're going places under our new owners. One step at a time!

Spurs arent a big club, they just have a big stadium.
		
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Tell that to the Euro Super League.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Hey... you watch out for AVFC.. dont sleep on us, we're going places under our new owners. One step at a time!

Spurs arent a big club, they just have a big stadium.
		
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When grealish had the chance to go spuds they were a top 4 regular team who were on the up whilst u were just relegated 

Grealish would have given them an extra edge 

To think they didn't want to pay 30 mil aha


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Tell that to the Euro Super League. 

Click to expand...


*Conference


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## pendodave (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			When grealish had the chance to go spuds they were a top 4 regular team who were on the up whilst u were just relegated

Grealish would have given them an extra edge

To think they didn't want to pay 30 mil aha
		
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Would have been interesting to watch Grealish playing under Jose.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Would have been interesting to watch Grealish playing under Jose.
		
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To be fair if he had gone I don't think MP would have left ..


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			When grealish had the chance to go spuds they were a top 4 regular team who were on the up whilst u were just relegated

Grealish would have given them an extra edge

To think they didn't want to pay 30 mil aha
		
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I am so gutted about that now. At that time I didn't realise how good he was going to become. I guess Levy didn't either.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Would have been interesting to watch Grealish playing under Jose.
		
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I'm not sure it would have been. How long until Jose started to grind him down and damage his confidence. At Villa he is given more of a free reign.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I am so gutted about that now. At that time I didn't realise how good he was going to become. I guess Levy didn't either.
		
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Levy doesn't see a lot to be fair 

No coincidence your struggling to find managers who want to work with him


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Dont rate DCL at all for England.

It wasnt DCL over Bamford though, hes about 5th in the pecking order for England 

Click to expand...

4 Goals in 10 games. Tell us again about Grealish.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			4 Goals in 10 games. Tell us again about Grealish.

Click to expand...

DCL wont ever get in above Kane. He's clearly not seen as a good replacement otherwise he'd have had more minutes so far. Hes not a bad player - just not my pick for England.

2 of your 4 goals are against San Marino  

Ill rave above Grealish all day - because hes that good and I've known it for years - but he isnt part of the discussion in relation to DCL or our striking options.

A Vardy type player would be a much better second option for England, not sure if we have anyone coming through like him though!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			DCL wont ever get in above Kane. He's clearly not seen as a good replacement otherwise he'd have had more minutes so far. Hes not a bad player - just not my pick for England.

Ill rave above Grealish all day - because hes that good and I've known it for years - but he isnt part of the discussion in relation to DCL or our striking options.

A Vardy type player would be a much better second option for England, not sure if we have anyone coming through like him though!
		
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100% agree he shouldn’t be picked over Kane, but as the lad is currently on form, he’s a worthwhile back up.

Other players are your Vardy types, DCL is there only to cover Kane.

The issue with Grealish is that there are options.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

DCL bamford and Watkins 


All players I'd love to see play for us ..

Kane is above them all ofc but he needs to start scoring again


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2021)

I can't see Southgate trying DCL now but the second half yesterday was surely the time. Give him 45 minutes and see what impact he has. Could he bring more players into the game, could he offer something different? If nothing else it gives Kane a warning that he isn't undroppable. As it is he may only get used if we are losing with 10 minutes to go and he has precious little in the bag before he walks onto the pitch.


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## Captainron (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			DCL bamford and Watkins


All players I'd love to see play for us ..

Kane is above them all ofc but he needs to start scoring again
		
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The donkey is having a bad run but he will poach a few pens and get some confidence. He was a complete non entity last night.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

Captainron said:



			The donkey is having a bad run but he will poach a few pens and get some confidence. He was a complete non entity last night.
		
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To be fair that "donkey" is one of the best in the world


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## Captainron (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			To be fair that "donkey" is one of the best in the world
		
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He need to get going and show that again. He isn't getting into any threatening areas at the moment and his general play has also been poor. If he wasn't skipper then he probably would have been dropped for a game or two. Might be a good thing for him to come off the bench for a game.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			DCL wont ever get in above Kane. He's clearly not seen as a good replacement otherwise he'd have had more minutes so far. Hes not a bad player - just not my pick for England.

2 of your 4 goals are against San Marino  

Ill rave above Grealish all day - because hes that good and I've known it for years - but he isnt part of the discussion in relation to DCL or our striking options.

A *Vardy *type player would be a much better second option for England, not sure if we have anyone coming through like him though!
		
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He definitely retired too early, he'd still be doing a job now. The other similar options just aren't quite there. Ings - quality but can't stay fit. Rashford - can't finish. Callum Wilson probably not good enough and can't stay fit. In the future it could be Greenwood but I think he needs to be playing up front for his club and not wasted out wide.

It seems be very much an English thing to retire from international football. Other countries' senior players all seem to keep going well into their 30s, look at Chiellini, Ramos (although he's not there this time), Pepe, whereas in England they just sack it off to concentrate on their clubs. Is it a symptom of English clubs having too many games and no breaks?? Or do they just not care about the England side as much?


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			100% agree he shouldn’t be picked over Kane, but as the lad is currently on form, he’s a worthwhile back up.

Other players are your Vardy types, DCL is there only to cover Kane.

The issue with Grealish is that there are options. 

Click to expand...

Grealish is the best option though. 

We can play Mount, Grealish and Foden (not a fan for England so far) in the system we are playing if he'd just drop Phillips for Mount!

No player in the prem has created more than Jack over 2 seasons - other than Kevin De Bruyne - and we're still sat having conversations about whether hes best?! He plays for Villa too, with worse players.. the mind boggles!!!!!!


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## Beezerk (Jun 23, 2021)

I can't believe Bamford is getting bandied about as a possible England striker, if ever there was a candidate for most bang average striker he would have to be on the list.
I remember Middlesbrough fans a few years years ago saying he didn't cut it, I mean Middlesbrough for christs sake 🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He definitely retired too early, he'd still be doing a job now. The other similar options just aren't quite there. Ings - quality but can't stay fit. Rashford - can't finish. Callum Wilson probably not good enough and can't stay fit. In the future it could be Greenwood but I think he needs to be playing up front for his club and not wasted out wide.

It seems be very much an English thing to retire from international football. Other countries' senior players all seem to keep going well into their 30s, look at Chiellini, Ramos (although he's not there this time), Pepe, whereas in England they just sack it off to concentrate on their clubs. Is it a symptom of English clubs having too many games and no breaks?? Or do they just not care about the England side as much?
		
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The ones that pack it in tend to be early 30's and on the fringes. Do they want to be away from their families, often with young kids at that point, when all they do is train and then sit on the bench? They are not playing a meaningful part in games, they are squad players. Great for a manager to have available, not worth it for a player at that stage of their career. The regulars don't pack in early.


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## Beezerk (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Grealish is the best option though.

We can play Mount, Grealish and Foden (not a fan for England so far) in the system we are playing if he'd just drop Phillips for Mount!

No player in the prem has created more than Jack over 2 seasons - other than Kevin De Bruyne - and we're still sat having conversations about whether hes best?! He plays for Villa too, with worse players.. the mind boggles!!!!!!
		
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You know full well that last night set it all up for a Rice, Henderson holding pair from now on 🙈


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He need to get going and show that again. He isn't getting into any threatening areas at the moment and his general play has also been poor. If he wasn't skipper then he probably would have been dropped for a game or two. Might be a good thing for him to come off the bench for a game.
		
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Absolute rubbish. Poland don't drop Lewandowski if he doesn't score for a few games. France don't drop Mbappe or Griezmann. Belgium don't drop Lukaku. If you honestly think we're going to go into the next round, against top drawer opposition and then drop our best striker then you're clueless.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			You know full well that last night set it all up for a Rice, Henderson holding pair from now on 🙈
		
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Yeah I do

And aint that a shame. All this talent and we're going to draft back in Jordan blooming Henderson


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## BiMGuy (Jun 23, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I can't believe Bamford is getting bandied about as a possible England striker, if ever there was a candidate for most bang average striker he would have to be on the list.
I remember Middlesbrough fans a few years years ago saying he didn't cut it, I mean Middlesbrough for christs sake 🤣
		
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Yeah. Hes terrible.


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## PieMan (Jun 23, 2021)

I'm thinking the 'new Golden Generation' are going to be as successful as the previous one!!! 🤦‍♂️😂😂

Got to ditch 4 at the back and 2 holding midfielders for the next round otherwise it's good bye!


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## Beezerk (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Yeah. Hes terrible.

View attachment 37185

Click to expand...

Let's discuss it again at the end of next season, see if he can bag the same tally 👍


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## Piece (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Grealish is the best option though.

*We can play Mount, Grealish and Foden (not a fan for England so far) in the system we are playing if he'd just drop Phillips for Mount!*

No player in the prem has created more than Jack over 2 seasons - other than Kevin De Bruyne - and we're still sat having conversations about whether hes best?! He plays for Villa too, with worse players.. the mind boggles!!!!!!
		
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Random points...

I would just like our best footballers playing together for once. Get Foden, Grealish and Mount together and give them some freedom. Supported by one of Rice or Phillips or Hendo behind, and have two from Saka, Sancho, Sterling, Kane.

Saka showed the way in terms of receiving under pressure, turning and breaking the lines. 

As for Kane...the problem is not Kane. It's Gareth. If Kane stays up front he won't get the ball because we don't own the midfield. Coming deep isn't that bad a thing, a bit less predictable that just "goal-hanging" 

I actually thought Kane was OK yesterday.

If we play France, I can see Gareth playing three holding midfielders. 

Haven't seen much wing-back action from us. Italy are all over this.

I would fancy us to beat Portugal. I wouldn't fancy us at all to get past France or Germany.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Grealish is the best option though.

We can play Mount, Grealish and Foden (not a fan for England so far) in the system we are playing if he'd just drop Phillips for Mount!

No player in the prem has created more than Jack over 2 seasons - other than Kevin De Bruyne - and we're still sat having conversations about whether hes best?! He plays for Villa too, with worse players.. the mind boggles!!!!!!
		
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Big fish in a small pond.
Everything at Villa revolves around him, hence why other teams target him.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Big fish in a small pond.
Everything at Villa revolves around him, hence why other teams target him.
		
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You've got an excuse for everything - and they're getting worse 

Just sit back, and enjoy the best CAM England have to offer, rather than finding terrible ways to prove hes not the best.


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## Billysboots (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			This. 

Spuds fans complaining hes not scoring because he doesn't get any service. Its hard to cross the ball to someone who isn't in the box.
		
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Yep. There was one moment, quite early in the first half, when he dropped so deep that the only players behind him were Pickford and the back four. I was screaming at the television.

Overall, a decent first half, poor second, and an average performance with two stand out performances from Saka and Grealish. I’m still struggling to get excited, and maintain I would far rather see England go out playing entertaining football and allowing the players to express themselves than the negative stuff on display so far.

Sorry, but I just don’t subscribe to the win at all costs mentality. When I’m old(er) and grey(er) I really don’t want to be party to conversations recalling the Euro 2020 win when everyone qualifies it by saying “Yeah, but weren’t they bloody awful to watch?”

England still leaving me stone cold, I’m afraid.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

I think there is something to be said for playing your way into the tournament slowly. For all the great play we've seen from Italy for example, I don't recall many times where a team smashed their group and went on to win the whole thing - typical they peak too early and it's difficult to maintain that for 3 or 4 weeks. Often the eventual winner have laboured their way through the early stages, like Portugal in 2016, or France in the World Cup 2018.

But on the flip side, the draw has screwed us. Playing your way into it, normally means that by winning the group we're rewarded with facing a half-decent team in the second round so you can keep building, but we get Germany or France so we kind of need to ramp it up to the top level pretty quickly now. And I'm not sure we're capable of that. 

The format is total nonsense if Wales can scrape through second and get Denmark, while we win the group and potentially end up against the pre-tournament favourites. I think this 24-team format needs a massive rethink. But they won't, obviously.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Yep. There was one moment, quite early in the first half, when he dropped so deep that the only players behind him were Pickford and the back four. I was screaming at the television.

Overall, a decent first half, poor second, and an average performance with two stand out performances from Saka and Grealish. I’m still struggling to get excited, and maintain I would far rather see England go out playing entertaining football and allowing the players to express themselves than the negative stuff on display so far.

Sorry, but I just don’t subscribe to the win at all costs mentality. When I’m old(er) and grey(er) I really don’t want to be party to conversations recalling the Euro 2020 win when everyone qualifies it by saying “Yeah, but weren’t they bloody awful to watch?”

England still leaving me stone cold, I’m afraid.
		
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That might be the problem !
It’s US expecting to much from our players.
I do wonder if Italian or French fans on Forums dissect the way they play when they win.

Grealish created the only goal last night with a really good cross.
We have a glut of forward that we reckon are world class ,but they havnt proved it yet.
I just hope better opposition will bring us up a level.
But the players look shackled to me and the only time we have more than two in the box is at FK and corners.
We are just to averse to getting beat, and that is down to the manager.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 23, 2021)

Southgate has actually said they are deliberately playing their way in slowly. 

They have studied past winners of major tournaments and how they worked their way through the tournament.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Southgate has actually said they are deliberately playing their way in slowly.

They have studied past winners of major tournaments and how they worked their way through the tournament.
		
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I say that when I have had a poor front nine but got away with it a bit.
So he’s obviously told Kane not to score to early.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You've got an excuse for everything - and they're getting worse 

Just sit back, and enjoy the best CAM England have to offer, rather than finding terrible ways to prove hes not the best.
		
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Not making excuses, he’s a talent, I just don’t think he’s as good as you believe, but then again you do watch him through rose tinted glasses.

25yrs old and only recently being called up Late developer maybe?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That might be the problem !
It’s US expecting to much from our players.
I do wonder if Italian or French fans on Forums dissect the way they play when they win.

Grealish created the only goal last night with a really good cross.
We have a glut of forward that we reckon are world class ,but they havnt proved it yet.
I just hope better opposition will bring us up a level.
But the players look shackled to me and the only time we have more than two in the box is at FK and corners.
We are just to averse to getting beat, and that is down to the manager.
		
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It was a good cross, but a lot of credit has to go to Sterling for his awareness and movement to get on the end of it. 

Do we honestly believe Grealish was looking for one of  the smallest on the pitch to get his head on it?


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## Beezerk (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It was a good cross, but a lot of credit has to go to Sterling for his awareness and movement to get on the end of it.

Do we honestly believe Grealish was looking for one of  the smallest on the pitch to get his head on it?
		
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He put it into the danger area, great cross imo, took the keeper out of the game and laid it on a plate for someone to tap in.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not making excuses, he’s a talent, I just don’t think he’s as good as you believe, but then again you do watch him through rose tinted glasses.

25yrs old and only recently being called up Late developer maybe?
		
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I'm no Villa fan but I think Grealish is top class. He could get in any Premier League team now. Last season he was:
2nd most key passes per game.
4th in successful dribbles.
Most fouled by a long way.
Ten assists which is joint 4th. 

The obvious reason he has fewer caps is because he elected to stay at Villa and played Championship football for three years, and he's only been back in the Prem for two. In that time he's mostly been involved when fit. I think he's unique in our squad for his ability on the ball.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He put it into the danger area, great cross imo, took the keeper out of the game and laid it on a plate for someone to tap in.
		
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That wasn’t a tap in, watch Sterling’s movement to lose his marker and get on the end of it.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He put it into the danger area, great cross imo, took the keeper out of the game and laid it on a plate for someone to tap in.
		
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Bit of a deflection on the cross but he did the work before that, winning the header to Kane, getting the pass back and creating the space to lift it in, on his weaker foot.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not making excuses, he’s a talent, I just don’t think he’s as good as you believe, but then again you do watch him through rose tinted glasses.

25yrs old and only recently being called up Late developer maybe?
		
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That's because he was like rice in the Ireland youth systems so they tread carefully with call ups as don't want to lock someone in forever 



pauldj42 said:



			It was a good cross, but a lot of credit has to go to Sterling for his awareness and movement to get on the end of it. 

Do we honestly believe Grealish was looking for one of  the smallest on the pitch to get his head on it?
		
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Grealish does what any good player does puts a ball in a dangerous position to be attacked 

It just missed saka and sterling had good awareness to nod in

However I've always said sterling is great when he doesn't have to think 

When he has time to think that's when he isn't as good . Get him in positions for tap ins he will score 

Let him round players and try score it will go over bar


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm no Villa fan but I think Grealish is top class. He could get in any Premier League team now. Last season he was:
2nd most key passes per game.
4th in successful dribbles.
Most fouled by a long way.
Ten assists which is joint 4th.

The obvious reason he has fewer caps is because he elected to stay at Villa and played Championship football for three years, and he's only been back in the Prem for two. In that time he's mostly been involved when fit. I think he's unique in our squad for his ability on the ball.
		
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I don’t doubt his ability, what I doubt is he’d get the freedom or the reliance on him if he played for a top 4 Club.

All this time he “elected” to stay at Villa are you sure anyone came in for him or were they not willing to take the chance on his attitude?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

Here’s the goal from the build up, it’s really not just about Grealish, 5 players involved and all playing their part.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407417782199898115


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## Beezerk (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			That wasn’t a tap in, watch Sterling’s movement to lose his marker and get on the end of it.
		
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Well it was very hard to miss from there wasn't it 🤣
Yes Sterling's movement was excellent for the goal, his off the ball runs have been excellent so far, just wish he had a bit more nous to do better when he has the ball.
Anyone spot Henderson getting in everyone's way btw? Too desperate to make an impact and overcrowding areas of the pitch 🙈🤣


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm no Villa fan but I think Grealish is top class. He could get in any Premier League team now. Last season he was:
2nd most key passes per game.
4th in successful dribbles.
Most fouled by a long way.
Ten assists which is joint 4th.

The obvious reason he has fewer caps is because he elected to stay at Villa and played Championship football for three years, and he's only been back in the Prem for two. In that time he's mostly been involved when fit. I think he's unique in our squad for his ability on the ball.
		
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AND he missed 12 games


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Here’s the goal from the build up, it’s really not just about Grealish, 5 players involved and all playing their part.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407417782199898115

Click to expand...

Whilst 5 other players were involved he and saka made a huge difference to surge us forward..

Against Scotland we just couldn't break them down we needed a spark 

It's that link up player


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t doubt his ability, what I doubt is he’d get the freedom or the reliance on him if he played for a top 4 Club.

All this time he “elected” to stay at Villa are you sure anyone came in for him or were they not willing to take the chance on his attitude?
		
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There is an element of Le Tissier there. Given the freedom just to play, forget tracking back etc. He may well be stifled at another club, not compulsory though.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t doubt his ability, what I doubt is he’d get the freedom or the reliance on him if he played for a top 4 Club.

All this time he “elected” to stay at Villa are you sure anyone came in for him or were they not willing to take the chance on his attitude?
		
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I don't think the big clubs risk spending huge money on 2nd tier players these days. They normally just let a smaller club take the risk and pick them up two years later when proven in the top flight. In this instance, there was no middle-man as Villa came up and established themselves, but all the top clubs would definitely take him now I should think.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Here’s the goal from the build up, it’s really not just about Grealish, 5 players involved and all playing their part.
		
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I agree, it was a great team goal where Saka, Grealish, Kane and Sterling all did superbly. Jack will be credited with the assist though.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It was a good cross, but a lot of credit has to go to Sterling for his awareness and movement to get on the end of it.

Do we honestly believe Grealish was looking for one of  the smallest on the pitch to get his head on it?
		
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No but his job was to get it in there in the first place which he did!
Something were lacking atm.
Sterling’s movement was good as his main route was blocked so he went back post.
Can’t argue with his stats Played three scored two anyone would be happy with that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Whilst 5 other players were involved he and saka made a huge difference to surge us forward..

Against Scotland we just couldn't break them down we needed a spark

It's that link up player
		
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Apart from Stones hitting the post.🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Apart from Stones hitting the post.🤷‍♂️
		
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Indeed, however that's a set piece not open play. 

Grealish gives us a lot of options


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## pokerjoke (Jun 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I agree, it was a great team goal where Saka, Grealish, Kane and Sterling all did superbly. Jack will be credited with the assist though.
		
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The first pass was from Shaw down the left to Sterling wasn’t it.
A left footed pass from a left footed player,playing left back,who’d have thought that would work.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 23, 2021)

My take on the game last night was overall a solid performance.
Saka was superb
Jack had his moments but was out the game far too much and won’t start the next game I believe.
Sterling also some good bits and stretches teams and without his goals we would be out.
Thought Maguire looked solid since he’s been out so long,although with world class players running at him next game it could be different.
Although we haven’t looked world beaters I bet other teams won’t fancy playing us.
Some good games also today


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 23, 2021)

Kane - £100m...really...?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Kane - £100m...really...?
		
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His PL record:

2014/15 21 goals
2015/16 25 goals
2016/17 29 goals
2017/18 30 goals
2018/19 17 goals (missed 1/4 of the season)
2019/20 18 goals (missed 1/4 of the season)
2020/21 23 goals

Golden Boot winner at World Cup 2018

That is why he is worth £100m in the current market. Precious few strikers around with that record.

You have to feed him though, he is not a Messi.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			The first pass was from Shaw down the left to Sterling wasn’t it.
A left footed pass from a left footed player,playing left back,who’d have thought that would work.
		
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No mate, broke down the right, Saka running from his own half playing a 1-2 with Philips, Shaw not involved.


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Kane - £100m...really...?
		
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I agree, but the first offer is always a low-ball one to get things moving.


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## Kellfire (Jun 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			The first pass was from Shaw down the left to Sterling wasn’t it.
A left footed pass from a left footed player,playing left back,who’d have thought that would work.
		
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You’re thinking of the pass when Sterling hit the post.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 23, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There is an element of Le Tissier there. Given the freedom just to play, forget tracking back etc. He may well be stifled at another club, not compulsory though.
		
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I think we’re in different eras now. 
Back then he wasn’t picked as he was at a small club, his tracking back etc is a false excuse imo  Especially as he was usually our second striker, and I don’t recall shearer, sheringham, Owen, Fowler etc really putting in defensive shifts. It’s just because he was playing a little deeper people seem to see him as midfielder.
The treatment of grealish is shocking imo, the Only reason we should play two defensive midfielders is if we accept that the attackers aren’t Expected to do the ugly work.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I think we’re in different eras now.
Back then he wasn’t picked as he was at a small club, his tracking back etc is a false excuse imo  Especially as he was usually our second striker, and I don’t recall shearer, sheringham, Owen, Fowler etc really putting in defensive shifts. It’s just because he was playing a little deeper people seem to see him as midfielder.
The treatment of grealish is shocking imo, the Only reason we should play two defensive midfielders is if we accept that the attackers aren’t Expected to do the ugly work.
		
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I think I probably didn't phrase that too well. I meant that when you are a big fish in a, relatively, small pond you are given far more freedom. I like that, some players shouldn't have restrictions placed on them. Let them do their damage with a clear mind.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 23, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think I probably didn't phrase that too well. I meant that when you are a big fish in a, relatively, small pond you are given far more freedom. I like that, some players shouldn't have restrictions placed on them. Let them do their damage with a clear mind.
		
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That’s fair.

imo for both players mentioned though the big fish thing is a little harsh. it’s said about keepers to, great shot stoppers when busy, but can’t crack it at top level. I think generally that’s quite clear to see, but for attacking players (with proven records) usually I’d expect someone creative to thrive with a massive move up. Hopefully Jack gets a move and proves otherwise.


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## Piece (Jun 23, 2021)

Wtf? Martin Dubravka! 🤣🤣🤣


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## HowlingGale (Jun 23, 2021)

TFFT. A goalkeeping error that takes the heat off Marshall 😂


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## Slime (Jun 23, 2021)

The Spaniards are certainly not shy when it comes to hitting the deck.
Slovakia ........................ that's an anagram of shambles, give or take!


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 23, 2021)




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## yandabrown (Jun 23, 2021)

Well, as it stands Germany are going home and we play Hungary, who would have thought! Long way to go though.


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## Beezerk (Jun 23, 2021)

yandabrown said:



			Well, as it stands Germany are going home and we play Hungary, who would have thought! Long way to go though.
		
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We play Portugal as it stands.


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## yandabrown (Jun 23, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			We play Portugal as it stands.
		
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Ah, yes, needs France to win too for that part.


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## Beezerk (Jun 23, 2021)

yandabrown said:



			Ah, yes, needs France to win too for that part.
		
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Germany are going to get a hat full though surely


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## SteveW86 (Jun 23, 2021)

Is that really a penalty!?!?!


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## pokerjoke (Jun 23, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Is that really a penalty!?!?!
		
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100%
If that was in the middle of the park a red all day long.
Cracking elbow though


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Is that really a penalty!?!?!
		
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of course it is lol, he elbowed him in the head, lucky its yellow not red surely


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 23, 2021)

So annoying watching the players surrounding the refs and asking them to check VAR. It's a penalty so VAR is going to check it anyway. Would love to see a ref start booking players that surround them. Just one after another until they get the message.


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## GreiginFife (Jun 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			100%
If that was in the middle of the park a red all day long.
Cracking elbow though
		
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Pretty much most challenges keepers put in would be fouls/cards elsewhere on the pitch, but it wasn't elsewhere and he got the ball first. 
Both went for the ball and keeper got a touch on it before connecting with the man. Sore one yes, but terrible call.


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Pretty much most challenges keepers put in would be fouls/cards elsewhere on the pitch, but it wasn't elsewhere and he got the ball first. 
Both went for the ball and keeper got a touch on it before connecting with the man. Sore one yes, but terrible call.
		
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so a keeper can be reckless if he wins the ball but other players cant? wheres that in the rules?


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## SteveW86 (Jun 23, 2021)

With the amount of protection keepers get in the game normally, plus the fact he got the ball first I’m surprised that’s a penalty.

Yes, he’s caught him after the ball and it’s a hit in the face, but no different to when a keeper punches the ball mid air and clatters into a group of players….


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## GreiginFife (Jun 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			so a keeper can be reckless if he wins the ball but other players cant? wheres that in the rules?
		
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Keepers are "reckless" in many ways compared to what's acceptable in the outfield. Where is it in the rules that the keeper can't challenge for a ball with his hands?


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Keepers are "reckless" in many ways compared to what's acceptable in the outfield. Where is it in the rules that the keeper can't challenge for a ball with his hands?
		
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its not a penalty because he challenged for the ball with his hands, its because he was reckless and cleaned the attacker out with an elbow in a dangerous manner


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## GreiginFife (Jun 23, 2021)

So anytime a keeper slides in at speed and wipes a player out while collecting a ball (that would be deemed reckless in outfield) is a penalty?

Fair enough.


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			So anytime a keeper slides in at speed and wipes a player out while collecting a ball (that would be deemed reckless in outfield) is a penalty?

Fair enough.
		
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i dont agree with the rules as they are but they cant apply them in some situations and not others surely, why should it be different for keepers in the box? reckless is reckless surely


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## BiMGuy (Jun 23, 2021)

I'm a goalkeeper and thought that was a penalty. You'd probably get away with it on a Sunday morning though.


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

lol this one may be a bit softer


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## GreiginFife (Jun 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			i dont agree with the rules as they are but they cant apply them in some situations and not others surely, why should it be different for keepers in the box? reckless is reckless surely
		
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It's subjective. Keepers always have more latitude with challenges because of the way that the game is played in that area. 

We won't agree on the subjective nature with all probability and the world will still turn. In that instance, the keeper had the right to challenge for the ball and connected ball first then player, if he hadn't gone for it and Portugal scored, he'd probably be slaughtered for not doing so.


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## SteveW86 (Jun 23, 2021)

Oooh another one to discuss


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## GreiginFife (Jun 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol this one may be a bit softer
		
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Is this Boris's levelling up?


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			It's subjective. Keepers always have more latitude with challenges because of the way that the game is played in that area. 

We won't agree on the subjective nature with all probability and the world will still turn. In that instance, the keeper had the right to challenge for the ball and connected ball first then player, if he hadn't gone for it and Portugal scored, he'd probably be slaughtered for not doing so.
		
Click to expand...


prob best we agree to disagree then lol


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## Billysboots (Jun 23, 2021)

Never a penalty. Awful decision. France have had a big break there.


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

i backed both sides to score in the first half so prob shouldnt be complaining haha

could get nice and tasty second half this game now


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## GreiginFife (Jun 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			prob best we agree to disagree then lol
		
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The way of the world mate  (if only others got it )


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## BrianM (Jun 23, 2021)

France out of jail after that first half performance.
I don’t think either were penalties.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			The way of the world mate  (if only others got it )
		
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Refreshing - bit rare in these parts and especially this thread! You two could have had pages to debate your different opinions...opportunity wasted


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 23, 2021)

Is there a way of muting Jermaine Jenas?  Never in the field of football commentary has so much  been spoken by one man.


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## Billysboots (Jun 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is there a way of muting Jermaine Jenas?  Never in the field of football commentary has so much  been spoken by one man.
		
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Hmmmm. Glenn Hoddle?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is there a way of muting Jermaine Jenas?  Never in the field of football commentary has so much  been spoken by one man.
		
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He is the epitome of bland 😴. So bad I'm surprised BT haven't hired him.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 23, 2021)

England are in serious trouble if playing France or Portugal 
They will both try and cheat to get a victory.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is the epitome of bland 😴. So bad I'm surprised BT haven't hired him.
		
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Weirdly that's why I quite like him...not sure if he talks rubbish or not as I can just zone him out!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Weirdly that's why I quite like him...not sure if he talks rubbish or not as I can just zone him out!
		
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Ha ha. Not sure his agent could use that to sell his punditry. "So dull you wont hear him" 🤣


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## GreiginFife (Jun 23, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Refreshing - bit rare in these parts and especially this thread! You two could have had pages to debate your different opinions...opportunity wasted 

Click to expand...

Making my cup of tea took precedence


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## Piece (Jun 23, 2021)

Am I watching a different game? Lloris was second to the ball and cleaned out the man. Definite pen.

The other pen was laughable. Right back doing his job and a type of incident you see every game.


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

id take Renato Sanchez at Arsenal  been mighty impressive


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## BiMGuy (Jun 23, 2021)

Piece said:



			Am I watching a different game? Lloris was second to the ball and cleaned out the man. Definite pen.

The other pen was laughable. Right back doing his job and a type of incident you see every game.
		
Click to expand...

Must be watching the same game as me. Lloris was nowhere near the ball.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Hmmmm. Glenn Hoddle?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, have to disagree.  Hoddle for me explains things well.  Jenas can't even see who gets to the ball first, never mind explain what's going on.


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## hairball_89 (Jun 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			England are in serious trouble if playing France or Portugal
They will both try and cheat to get a victory.
		
Click to expand...

Which is odd, when all they have to do is play football because both teams are better than us!


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## harpo_72 (Jun 23, 2021)

Pogba has Mbappe, DeBryne has Lukaku .. so what is the English equivalent?


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

turned over to the german game, was the 3rd pen a pen lol


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 23, 2021)

More penalties than Harry Kane.


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			More penalties than Harry Kane.
		
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fernandes must be having kittens watching from the bench 🤣🤣🤣


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			turned over to the german game, was the 3rd pen a pen lol
		
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Should have stayed with the Germany game


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

more changes in englands potential opponents than to Boris' green zones lol


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Should have stayed with the Germany game 

Click to expand...


i am  thats why i wanted to know what the 3rd pen was like lol


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 23, 2021)

Man Utd should've signed this Pogba guy that's playing for France rather than the one they've got playing for them.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			i am  thats why i wanted to know what the 3rd pen was like lol
		
Click to expand...

Penalty for me. Hand ball - his arms were flapping around like a demented octupus!


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## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Pogba has Mbappe, DeBryne has Lukaku .. so what is the English equivalent?
		
Click to expand...

Pickford has Maguire?


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## GreiginFife (Jun 23, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Penalty for me. Hand ball - his arms were flapping around like a demented octupus!
		
Click to expand...

What Amanda said, more flailing than my golf swing.

No doubt someone will be along to tell us that doing the Vogue is a natural position...


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			What Amanda said, more flailing than my golf swing.

No doubt someone will be along to tell us that doing the Vogue is a natural position...
		
Click to expand...


now i need to watch it lol, the pen that is


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## harpo_72 (Jun 23, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Pickford has Maguire?
		
Click to expand...

Joking aside maguire passed well


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

Germany it is then, or one final twist.............


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 23, 2021)

How did he give the first French penalty and not that?


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## Dando (Jun 23, 2021)

Can’t believe Fernandes was having a go at a player for going down in the box


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 23, 2021)

Dando said:



			Can’t believe Fernandes was having a go at a player for going down in the box
		
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Well it is his job...


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			How did he give the first French penalty and not that? 

Click to expand...

I bet if the decisions had gone the other way and he'd given that one and not the French one VAR wouldn't have overturned either of them. There's been lots of talk about how well VAR has been used in this tournament, and in general I'd agree, but there does seem to be an instruction not to overturn the on field decision.


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## Billysboots (Jun 23, 2021)

Of the three teams England were likely to get having won their group, Germany are surely the preferred option. France and Portugal just have too much class. The Germans are not the side they were.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Of the three teams England were likely to get having won their group, Germany are surely the preferred option. France and Portugal just have too much class. The Germans are not the side they were.
		
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Equally, we are now on the better side of the draw (they have just shown the route)


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## Billysboots (Jun 23, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Equally, we are now on the better side of the draw (they have just shown the route)
		
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Just seen the draw. To say it’s opened up for England is an understatement!


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## chrisd (Jun 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The Germans are not the side they were.
		
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What ? Has Gerd Muller retired then?


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Just seen the draw. To say it’s opened up for England is an understatement!
		
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you wouldnt want to be belgium lol


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## Piece (Jun 23, 2021)

Having said a few hours ago we won't beat Germany....we can beat Germany!!!


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## Papas1982 (Jun 23, 2021)

Well for me it’s now a case of if we don’t reach the final, Southgate has to be sacked.
I don’t want him anyway, but that’s as easy a route as possible.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 23, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Well for me it’s now a case of if we don’t reach the final, SPugh gate has to be sacked.
I don’t want him anyway,* but that’s as easy a route as possible.*

Click to expand...

Well apart from Germany, who you can never write off, Sweden, who topped their group which included Spain, and Netherlands who have looked pretty good so far in the tournament. It's definitely the easier half of the draw to be in but not sure I'd call it "as easy a route as possible". We all saw how our easy route to the final of the last World Cup went until we came up against the first decent team we met, and we've potentially got three decent teams between us and the final.


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## Billysboots (Jun 23, 2021)

chrisd said:



			What ? Has Gerd Muller retired then?
		
Click to expand...

Apparently so.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 23, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Well apart from Germany, who you can never write off, Sweden, who topped their group which included Spain, and Netherlands who have looked pretty good so far in the tournament. It's definitely the easier half of the draw to be in but not sure I'd call it "as easy a route as possible". We all saw how our easy route to the final of the last World Cup went until we came up against the first decent team we met, and we've potentially got three decent teams between us and the final.
		
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I didn’t mean It disrespectfully, although it obvs is. But prior to the start. We’d have all taken that.
sweden beat Slovakia and Poland, the draw with Spain is obviously good, but that doesn’t make them a super team all of a sudden. 
holand whilst looking decent, don’t t have the squads they’ve had in the past. 

don’t get me wrong, Southgate could manage a team to lose to anyone, he imo has a bit of an Ole about him. Gets results at the right time, but not the big ones.
but Germany aside, that’s a run i would expect to beat, if we get past Germany.


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## larmen (Jun 23, 2021)

You make it sound like an England -  Germany semi final.


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## IainP (Jun 23, 2021)

One shot game at a time 😉😁🤞


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Just seen the draw. To say it’s opened up for England is an understatement!
		
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Honestly, I've just had a look as well - it really makes all the "we should try and come 2nd in the group" idiots look properly stupid.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 23, 2021)

Piece said:



			Having said a few hours ago we won't beat Germany....we can beat Germany!!!
		
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Depends what side plays really … the one with no ambition or the one which wants to get a goal every time they get possession


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## 4LEX (Jun 23, 2021)

Germany have a weak defence we can cause a lot of problems out wide which is where we're a threat. They also have no cutting edge and look unbalanced upfront, we really should be putting them to bed if we've got anything about ourselves.

Buzzing for next week!


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## Captainron (Jun 24, 2021)

There is a real debate on Talksport about dropping Kane because he’s been really poor thus far. I’m not alone in my thoughts.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			There is a real debate on Talksport about dropping Kane because he’s been really poor thus far. I’m not alone in my thoughts.
		
Click to expand...

Talksport is the sun of the airwaves .. hosted by click bait presenters


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## SteveW86 (Jun 24, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Man Utd should've signed this Pogba guy that's playing for France rather than the one they've got playing for them.
		
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They could have this guy, all they need to do is sign Kante


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## Captainron (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Talksport is the sun of the airwaves .. hosted by click bait presenters
		
Click to expand...

No doubt they need a bit of content and this is a perfect fit for that. 

Kane has been poor and I mean shockingly poor thus far. There is no denying that. He does need to have a good game against Germany.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Talksport is the sun of the airwaves .. hosted by click bait presenters
		
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Tabloid radio trying to be controversial. Who'd have thought?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			No doubt they need a bit of content and this is a perfect fit for that. 

Kane has been poor and I mean shockingly poor thus far. There is no denying that. He does need to have a good game against Germany.
		
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When Kane is given chances and is supported he is one of if not the best finishers around.

He's not getting enough support 

Grealish is the first to cross balls into areas that he can attack

Sancho is more a winger who beats a man and crosses in 

In the system Gareth is setting up a Kane type striker almost seems out of place which is insane as he is such a good player .. Gareth needs to either play someone who suits his preferred system or change it to suit the world class players he has


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## Captainron (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			When Kane is given chances and is supported he is one of if not the best finishers around.

He's not getting enough support

Grealish is the first to cross balls into areas that he can attack

Sancho is more a winger who beats a man and crosses in

In the system Gareth is setting up a Kane type striker almost seems out of place which is insane as he is such a good player .. Gareth needs to either play someone who suits his preferred system or change it to suit the world class players he has
		
Click to expand...

Then play someone who fits the system?  You’re just trying to fit a square peg in a round hole


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Then play someone who fits the system?  You’re just trying to fit a square peg in a round hole
		
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Yet that square peg is a world class striker .. I'd change the system to fit him in


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## Jimaroid (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yet that square peg is a world class striker .. I'd change the system to fit him in
		
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This is a very strange view of what makes a world class player. A truely world class player will show performance under any circumstances. Kane has shown nothing of that, Southgate should bin him and play the team that exists not the team that doesn’t.


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## Captainron (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yet that square peg is a world class striker .. I'd change the system to fit him in
		
Click to expand...

Now you’re just sounding like @Liverpoolphil. 

He needs to be adaptable to all systems.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Now you’re just sounding like @Liverpoolphil. 

He needs to be adaptable to all systems.
		
Click to expand...

He can't learn to have the speed of sterling etc 

He's coming so deep because nothing is happening service wise


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## Captainron (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			He can't learn to have the speed of sterling etc

He's coming so deep because nothing is happening service wise
		
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I’d Sterling had his finishing ability then you would have an amazing striker.


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## BrianM (Jun 24, 2021)

If England cant make the final in that side of the draw with the talent at there disposal, something is far wrong.
You couldn't get an easier route, Germans are still good but nothing like the Germany of old.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			I’d Sterling had his finishing ability then you would have an amazing striker.
		
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Vardy had both but he was criminally underused 

Sturridge was thought to have it all but glass legs don't help us 

Sterling looked better when he was pushed to play along side Kane, that seemed to change after we scored and then everyone looked one dimensional again


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			This is a very strange view of what makes a world class player. A truely world class player will show performance under any circumstances. Kane has shown nothing of that, Southgate should bin him and play the team that exists not the team that doesn’t.
		
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The hardest thing in football is to score goals. If you have a goalscorer then feed him. We have a world class goalscorer and to not utilise him is criminal. All the nice play, or ugly play, in the world is irrelevant if you don't have someone who can finish it off.


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

People are still expecting Kane to be a one man team and do it all on his own then? I give up. *bangs head on wall*

If you really think we should drop one of the top 5 strikers in the world for a match with Germany you want your head checking. As we said yesterday, Calvert-Lewin isn't going to provide anything over and above what Kane does. In fact he relies on service even more I would suggest.


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## chrisd (Jun 24, 2021)

BrianM said:



			If England cant make the final in that side of the draw with the talent at there disposal, something is far wrong.
You couldn't get an easier route, Germans are still good but nothing like the Germany of old.
		
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I get your drift  - if we dont win the competition we've  now massively failed


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## Kellfire (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			People are still expecting Kane to be a one man team and do it all on his own then? I give up. *bangs head on wall*

If you really think we should drop one of the top 5 strikers in the world for a match with Germany you want your head checking. As we said yesterday, Calvert-Lewin isn't going to provide anything over and above what Kane does. In fact he relies on service even more I would suggest.
		
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You simply can’t rule out the concept of form though. It’s possible for Kane to be a better player overall but in worse form.


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You simply can’t rule out the concept of form though. It’s possible for Kane to be a better player overall but in worse form.
		
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Not to that degree. If Vardy was in the squad I'd say he's worth a go because he's a top class striker. But Calvert-Lewin - Kane slightly off form is still more likely to score than Calvert-Lewin in this team. Kane's the sort of player who can pop up with a goal at any time.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 24, 2021)

Everything is to slow.
This gives defences time to reset.
So Kane has been marked out of the games.
But he needs to stay on the shoulders of the CB and stop dropping deep.
He needs to be there when that one chance comes up. 
What does dropping deep achive if nobody takes up that space he leaves ,Son does this brilliantly but England’s players don’t.
He’s been anonymous up to now just hope GS can sort the service to him as it’s been very poor.


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Everything is to slow.
This gives defences time to reset.
So Kane has been marked out of the games.
But he needs to stay on the shoulders of the CB and stop dropping deep.
He needs to be there when that one chance comes up. 
*What does dropping deep achive if nobody takes up that space he leaves ,Son does this brilliantly but England’s players don’t.*
He’s been anonymous up to now just hope GS can sort the service to him as it’s been very poor.
		
Click to expand...

You say that, but it's Sterling who has that role in the England team, and he's scored 2 goals. 🤷‍♂️

Playing Germany will be a different kettle of fish to the group games. I suspect Gareth will set us up to counter attack, maybe with the back 5 and wing backs to counter-act their wing backs, and that may suit Kane if it means we get the ball into him more directly, and he can play in someone like Sterling or Foden who should be running beyond him.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You say that, but it's Sterling who has that role in the England team, and he's scored 2 goals. 🤷‍♂️

Playing Germany will be a different kettle of fish to the group games. I suspect Gareth will set us up to counter attack, maybe with the back 5 and wing backs to counter-act their wing backs, and that may suit Kane if it means we get the ball into him more directly, and he can play in someone like Sterling or Foden who should be running beyond him.
		
Click to expand...

If we going for a back 4 I'd like us to go 

--------------------pickford 

---------walker----maigure---stones

Tripper -------rice-----phillips --------saka 

-----------sterling --kane---- grealish

Saka and tripper would be very attacking but with stable footing behind 

Those front 3 would create some great chances


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If we going for a back 4 I'd like us to go

--------------------pickford

---------walker----maigure---stones

Tripper -------rice-----phillips --------saka

-----------sterling --kane---- grealish

Saka and tripper would be very attacking but with stable footing behind

Those front 3 would create some great chances
		
Click to expand...

I'm basically convinced that Henderson will start, he's just had 45 minutes plus we have a week until the game. My prediction would be the team you've said, but Henderson in for Phillips, probably Shaw on the left instead of Saka. I'm not sure whether he'll start Grealish, Saka or Foden to be honest, it'll be one of the three. Or he could potentially bring in Mount and play it with Kane & Sterling as a front two - but I'm not sure about Mount coming in when he hasn't trained with the team this week.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You say that, but it's Sterling who has that role in the England team, and he's scored 2 goals. 🤷‍♂️

Playing Germany will be a different kettle of fish to the group games. I suspect Gareth will set us up to counter attack, maybe with the back 5 and wing backs to counter-act their wing backs, and that may suit Kane if it means we get the ball into him more directly, and he can play in someone like Sterling or Foden who should be running beyond him.
		
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After just 5 mins Tuesday he was in our half actually behind the CBS??
I just don’t understand why a world class striker has to come back in his own half when we have the ball?
He’s the target man but only needs to drop to the edge of the box to create space.
That’s where he was for Sterling’s goal as he played the ball to Grealish.
Kane is a quality striker but he’s off form imo, but that can all change with one goal.
But we all know Gareth only plays on form players


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm basically convinced that Henderson will start, he's just had 45 minutes plus we have a week until the game. My prediction would be the team you've said, but Henderson in for Phillips, probably Shaw on the left instead of Saka. I'm not sure whether he'll start Grealish, Saka or Foden to be honest, it'll be one of the three. Or he could potentially bring in Mount and play it with Kane & Sterling as a front two - but I'm not sure about Mount coming in when he hasn't trained with the team this week.
		
Click to expand...

Mount if he's allowed in Phillips role but your right I think he is setting up for Henderson 

Saka would be brilliant in the left wing back roll as he wouldn't have to defend often but would add to the attack 

He has to play grealish it's what we need to create .. 

You say mount hasn't trained but this is Gareth who will bring half fit players anyways lol so I'm sure it's fine


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			After just 5 mins Tuesday he was in our half actually behind the CBS??
I just don’t understand why a world class striker has to come back in his own half when we have the ball?
He’s the target man but only needs to drop to the edge of the box to create space.
That’s where he was for Sterling’s goal as he played the ball to Grealish.
Kane is a quality striker but he’s off form imo, but that can all change with one goal.
But we all know Gareth only plays on form players

Click to expand...

It's just his game. He's not a targetman, he's a complete forward. Or I like to call him (only slightly tongue in cheek) a box-to-box forward. The same as Rooney used to play that way. Asking why he drops deep is like asking Alexander-Arnold doesn't just sit at right back and defend, or why didn't Makelele get involved in the attacking play - it's just their natural instincts of how they play.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 24, 2021)

If we go on form after 3 games, the only consistent player is Pickford

Nobody in that squad is anywhere near as good as Kane.

Once again the media are over-reacting, there is not a snowball’s chance in hell Southgate will start experimenting and trying different formations in what could be “our Final”

I don’t expect anymore than 1 or 2 changes from the team that started against the Czech’s barring any injuries.

Take comfort in the fact we won the group playing rubbish and regardless of how we play, we have no idea which German Team will turn up, the one from the Portugal game or the one from the other 2.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's just his game. He's not a targetman, he's a complete forward. Or I like to call him (only slightly tongue in cheek) a box-to-box forward. The same as Rooney used to play that way. Asking why he drops deep is like asking Alexander-Arnold doesn't just sit at right back and defend, or why didn't Makelele get involved in the attacking play - it's just their natural instincts of how they play.
		
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Yes I get that but with two holding Cm there isn’t room for him to drop into without getting in the way. Imo.
He is one of the best finishers we have ever had but he’s not going to score standing next to Stones and Maguire.
We need him to link the play on the edge of the box where the damage is done .
I am sure he will come good ( hope so any way.) as we need his goals


Just on TAA that’s why his defensive record is used against him ,his stats aren’t as good as others because he dosnt have to defend much as he is covered by the CBs.


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## Jimaroid (Jun 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you have a goalscorer then feed him. We *have* a world class goalscorer and to not utilise him is criminal.
		
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*Had one*, I'd argue.

No amount of feeding him is going to work if he's not even in the oppo's half. He's a poacher, theres nothing wrong with that, but a poacher that's nowhere near the goal is a wasted place in the team. He's not in form, looks tired, and the team isn't giving him the service. Straightforward decision to me. He shouldn't be in the starting eleven, he'd be better on the bench and saved for 10 to 20 minutes of heroics if needed.


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



*Had one*, I'd argue.

No amount of feeding him is going to work if he's not even in the oppo's half. He's a poacher, theres nothing wrong with that, but a poacher that's nowhere near the goal is a wasted place in the team. He's not in form, looks tired, and the team isn't giving him the service. Straightforward decision to me. He shouldn't be in the starting eleven, he'd be better on the bench and saved for 10 to 20 minutes of heroics if needed.
		
Click to expand...

Kane has never been a poacher, that's someone like Van Nistelrooy or Inzaghi who never leaves the box. He's the exact opposite of a poacher if anything.


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## Kellfire (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Kane has never been a poacher, that's someone like Van Nistelrooy or Inzaghi who never leaves the box. He's the exact opposite of a poacher if anything. 

Click to expand...

Van Nistelrooy was WAY more than a poacher. Yes most of his goals came in the box but he was very modern in the way he pressed from the front, always hassling and harrying defenders across their back line. We got so many goals from him causing poor distribution that ended up in our midfield.


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## GreiginFife (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Kane has never been a poacher, that's someone like Van Nistelrooy or Inzaghi who never leaves the box. He's the exact opposite of a poacher if anything. 

Click to expand...

Sure I read a stat somewhere that Kane's scoring was something like 85% inside the box. 
Not sure how true or accurate that is (and don't think it counted penalties).


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Sure I read a stat somewhere that Kane's scoring was something like 85% inside the box.
Not sure how true or accurate that is (and don't think it counted penalties).
		
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Ive heard a similar stat before. Not sure I'd categorise Kane as a poacher, but he is lethal in the box. 

Poachers for me do most of their work in the 6 yard box.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Sure I read a stat somewhere that Kane's scoring was something like 85% inside the box. 
Not sure how true or accurate that is (and don't think it counted penalties).
		
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Even if that is true wasn't ruuds van nists goals 99.9% inside the box but you would still want him in your team 

I can't believe Kane is still questioned when since 14/15 he has averaged 23 league goals a season. 

Only 2 seasons since then he has been under 20 (17 and 18)

Even gas a 30 Nd a 29 in there 

That's some goal scoring record 

He's 28 this year .. so only just entering his prime 

He defo hasn't lost it like some claim


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## PieMan (Jun 24, 2021)

I hope I'm very wrong, but Kane at the moment appears to be mirroring Alan Shearer's latter club and England career. Top or near the top of the domestic goal scoring charts every year, but started to get found out internationally by the very best defenders/top nations defences.

His record is currently way better than Shearer's on the international stage and perhaps it's the case he needs a bad goal - the old 'one off his arse' - to get him going again, but at the moment he looks a bit off the pace. Rudiger will be all over him. 

But the same could be said of most of the England side at the moment IMO. To be honest can't see this England side getting past Ze Germans.


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## Captainron (Jun 24, 2021)

He’s scored 2 goals in his last 10 games. He’s in a slump!


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## GreiginFife (Jun 24, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Ive heard a similar stat before. Not sure I'd categorise Kane as a poacher, but he is lethal in the box.

Poachers for me do most of their work in the 6 yard box.
		
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Suppose it all depends on what you classify as a poacher. 
When I played a poacher was anyone that spent most of the time in the box waiting for an opportunity. And in a few of the teams I played for there were a few. 

As far as Kane goes, I have no skin in the game and couldn't care less about having him in my team, it was more just to the comment about opposite of a poacher but recalling a stat that indicates quite a poacher instinct (by the definition that I know). 

As I say, whether the stat is correct or not remains to be seen.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



*Had one*, I'd argue.

No amount of feeding him is going to work if he's not even in the oppo's half. He's a poacher, theres nothing wrong with that, but a poacher that's nowhere near the goal is a wasted place in the team. He's not in form, looks tired, and the team isn't giving him the service. Straightforward decision to me. He shouldn't be in the starting eleven, he'd be better on the bench and saved for 10 to 20 minutes of heroics if needed.
		
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I agree with a chunk of this. He needs to get back up top, it's where he scores his goals. It's something ancelotti kept telling DCL and it stands for kane as well.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Suppose it all depends on what you classify as a poacher.
When I played a poacher was anyone that spent most of the time in the box waiting for an opportunity. And in a few of the teams I played for there were a few.

As far as Kane goes, I have no skin in the game and couldn't care less about having him in my team, it was more just to the comment about opposite of a poacher but recalling a stat that indicates quite a poacher instinct (by the definition that I know).

As I say, whether the stat is correct or not remains to be seen.
		
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I dont think you're wrong! 

An article from 2020 - https://www.newsbytesapp.com/news/sports/harry-kane-goes-past-200-club-career-goals/story


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## Beezerk (Jun 24, 2021)

So anyway, back to matters in hand.
Can England beat Germany?
I'm flip flopping on an hourly basis 🤣


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## GreiginFife (Jun 24, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont think you're wrong!

An article from 2020 - https://www.newsbytesapp.com/news/sports/harry-kane-goes-past-200-club-career-goals/story

Click to expand...

I think thats possibly the stat I saw, would be about that time frame. 

Personally, I am in the camp that I don't give a rats arse how a goal is scored as its seldom anyone remembers any outside of screamers or "wonder goals" (hate that term). 

Having played at a decent level in the past, I'm not ashamed to say that of the 50 odd goals I scored across the years, many were off my shin, my back, my knees and a few times, as Pieman says, off my arse. They go in, it's a goal.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			I think thats possibly the stat I saw, would be about that time frame.

Personally, I am in the camp that I don't give a rats arse how a goal is scored as its seldom anyone remembers any outside of screamers or "wonder goals" (hate that term).

Having played at a decent level in the past, I'm not ashamed to say that of the 50 odd goals I scored across the years, many were off my shin, my back, my knees and a few times, as Pieman says, off my arse. They go in, it's a goal.
		
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Im with you there too. Goals a goal, dont care how it goes in.

Takes skill to be at the right place at the right time, does not matter which body part it comes off!


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## GreiginFife (Jun 24, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			So anyway, back to matters in hand.
Can England beat Germany?
I'm flip flopping on an hourly basis 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Having watched Germany struggle to contain an enthusiastic but technically inferior Hungary, I think if you don't beat them something is definitely wrong. 

They played well against a Portugal that, in that game, seemed to lack cohesion that was also evident in 80 minutes of Portugal's play against Hungary on Matchday 1.


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## GreiginFife (Jun 24, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Im with you there too. Goals a goal, dont care how it goes in.

Takes skill to be at the right place at the right time, does not matter which body part it comes off!
		
Click to expand...

Sometimes it just takes right place right time 😉


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			So anyway, back to matters in hand.
Can England beat Germany?
I'm flip flopping on an hourly basis 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Before the tournament I looked at them and thought it was the weakest Germany side I'd seen in years. They battered Portugal though and I started to think I was wrong. Then they laboured past Hungary and I'm back to my original thoughts, haha. I think it'll be a close game, possibly going to extra time, where either side can nick it late on. In terms of attacking options coming off the bench, we are stronger, so that might be how we take it. I'm not going into it thinking we'll get annihilated though, which is the usual thought process when facing Germany.


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## fundy (Jun 24, 2021)

got all the feel of 0-0 and off to penalties about it.........

hopefully not!!!!!!


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Before the tournament I looked at them and thought it was the weakest Germany side I'd seen in years. They battered Portugal though and I started to think I was wrong. Then they laboured past Hungary and I'm back to my original thoughts, haha. I think it'll be a close game, possibly going to extra time, where either side can nick it late on. In terms of attacking options coming off the bench, we are stronger, so that might be how we take it. I'm not going into it thinking we'll get annihilated though, which is the usual thought process when facing Germany.
		
Click to expand...

I vote yes. 

We're solid in defence and have the talent to destroy a team at some point going forward - I live in hope that we turn up to batter the Germans.


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I vote yes.

*We're solid in defence* and have the talent to destroy a team at some point going forward - I live in hope that we turn up to batter the Germans.
		
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Err defence is the bit I'm worried about. We all know that Stones, Maguire AND Pickford all have a mistake in them, so the chances of all three going mistake-free against a good side are relatively slim. I think we'll manage a goal though so I reckon 1-1 and then nick one in extra time with our attacking subs. Obviously, none of us really want it to go to penalties.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Err defence is the bit I'm worried about. We all know that Stones, Maguire AND Pickford all have a mistake in them, so the chances of all three going mistake-free against a good side are relatively slim. I think we'll manage a goal though so I reckon 1-1 and then nick one in extra time with our attacking subs. Obviously, none of us really want it to go to penalties.
		
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I was too, but we will be playing the same boring formation I imagine and the defence is really solid at present!


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I was too, but we will be playing the same boring formation I imagine and the defence is really solid at present!
		
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Not conceding against the likes of Scotland and Czech is a whole different game to playing the Germans. Even if they are short of strikers.


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## Slime (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



*Err defence is the bit I'm worried about.* We all know that Stones, Maguire AND Pickford all have a mistake in them, so the chances of all three going mistake-free against a good side are relatively slim. I think we'll manage a goal though so I reckon 1-1 and then nick one in extra time with our attacking subs. Obviously, none of us really want it to go to penalties.
		
Click to expand...

Of the sixteen teams to come through the group stages, only two are yet to concede a goal.
Italy are the other team.


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			Of the sixteen teams to come through the group stages, only two are yet to concede a goal.
Italy are the other team.
		
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That doesn't mean anything? We played teams that didn't really attack us much, in drab games. Our defensive players all have a mistake in them, and we're playing Germany now - not Czech Republic.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That doesn't mean anything? We played teams that didn't really attack us much, in drab games. Our defensive players all have a mistake in them, and we're playing Germany now - not Czech Republic.
		
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Is that the same as all our forwards having the ability to miss an easy chance?


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That doesn't mean anything? We played teams that didn't really attack us much, in drab games. Our defensive players all have a mistake in them, and we're playing Germany now - not Czech Republic.
		
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Ive got faith. Im more concerned about scoring if im honest - but I do think we can break down the Germans if Hungary can..


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Is that the same as all our forwards having the ability to miss an easy chance?
		
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We probably do need to step up the attacking impetus, because as I said, I can't see us keeping another clean sheet. But I do see it going to extra time which means we have more time to get the all important second goal.


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## Jimaroid (Jun 24, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			If we go on form after 3 games, the only consistent player is Pickford

Click to expand...

Boak indeed. The dodgy Pickford has yet to turn up and he most certainly will the more games he gets. Germany are poor but are still managing to put a fair bit of pressure into the area where Pickford is bound to have a howler.



Orikoru said:



			Kane has never been a poacher, that's someone like Van Nistelrooy or Inzaghi who never leaves the box. He's the exact opposite of a poacher if anything. 

Click to expand...

Roll eyes all you want. Kane's scoring record comes from the penalty spot and from being sent gifts from open play into an area he's already standing in. There's nothing wrong with that type of play, he just seems to have forgotten that's what he was good at.


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## Slime (Jun 24, 2021)

I get the feeling that I am one of the very few who actually want England to do well.
Lots on here are waiting to roll out the 'I told you so' justification for their negativity.
I say  COME ON ENGLAND!
Anyone with me?


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## GreiginFife (Jun 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			I get the feeling that I am one of the very few who actually want England to do well.
Lots on here are waiting to roll out the 'I told you so' justification for their negativity.
I say  COME ON ENGLAND!
Anyone with me? 

Click to expand...

No, but you get points for enthusiasm & effort (unlike Scotland)


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## Rooter (Jun 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			I get the feeling that I am one of the very few who actually want England to do well.
Lots on here are waiting to roll out the 'I told you so' justification for their negativity.
I say  COME ON ENGLAND!
Anyone with me? 

Click to expand...

Me! I am happy to sit back and see what happens!! I of course hope we win!!


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## BiMGuy (Jun 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			I get the feeling that I am one of the very few who actually want England to do well.
Lots on here are waiting to roll out the 'I told you so' justification for their negativity.
I say  COME ON ENGLAND!
Anyone with me? 

Click to expand...

I suspect the doom and gloom merchants get it from watching their dour clubs play every week. 

I'm surprised we have any problems with management and strategy given the levels of expert we have at our disposal.


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## BrianM (Jun 24, 2021)

chrisd said:



			I get your drift  - if we dont win the competition we've  now massively failed
		
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I think France will come through the other side of the draw, when they are on it they are unbeatable in my opinion.

With the talent in that England team, finalists is the minimum they should be looking at.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Boak indeed. The dodgy Pickford has yet to turn up and he most certainly will the more games he gets. Germany are poor but are still managing to put a fair bit of pressure into the area where Pickford is bound to have a howler.



Roll eyes all you want. Kane's scoring record comes from the penalty spot and from being sent gifts from open play into an area he's already standing in. There's nothing wrong with that type of play, he just seems to have forgotten that's what he was good at.
		
Click to expand...

Pickford has 16 clean sheets in 33 games for England, I can’t remember him making a mistake that’s led to England losing. 

Personally I think he has an evil twin brother who plays for Everton.


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Roll eyes all you want. Kane's scoring record comes from the penalty spot and from being sent gifts from open play into an area he's already standing in. There's nothing wrong with that type of play, he just seems to have forgotten that's what he was good at.
		
Click to expand...

  I guess you haven't watched him much so I'll help you out with a video.




Those are the sort of goals he's capable of. Imagine calling him just a poacher.


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			I get the feeling that I am one of the very few who actually want England to do well.
Lots on here are waiting to roll out the 'I told you so' justification for their *negativity.*
I say  COME ON ENGLAND!
Anyone with me? 

Click to expand...

Really? I don't think that's been the case. Not many have even predicted Germany win. Most people have been quite realistic saying it's a poor Germany team but if we play well we've got a chance of beating them. Sorry if we don't subscribe to the blind optimism "it's coming home" brigade.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Really? I don't think that's been the case. Not many have even predicted Germany win. Most people have been quite realistic saying it's a poor Germany team but if we play well we've got a chance of beating them. Sorry if we don't subscribe to the blind optimism "it's coming home" brigade.
		
Click to expand...

Its coming home though.....


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## harpo_72 (Jun 24, 2021)

Kane, is a known quantity to most international defences , you see his capability week in week out in the premier league. But the telling stat is how his goal scoring rate changes through the season. This highlights whether the defenders learn or Kane evolves ( isn’t a 1 trick pony) . 
World class strikers confuse defenders they antagonise them and make it uncomfortable… is Kane doing that? Is he drawing in more defenders or just a single marker? Mbappe had them doubling up and that just creates space ..
This is why don’t feel he is effective


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Boak indeed. The dodgy Pickford has yet to turn up and he most certainly will the more games he gets. Germany are poor but are still managing to put a fair bit of pressure into the area where Pickford is bound to have a howler.



Roll eyes all you want. Kane's scoring record comes from the penalty spot and from being sent gifts from open play into an area he's already standing in. There's nothing wrong with that type of play, he just seems to have forgotten that's what he was good at.
		
Click to expand...


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## BiMGuy (Jun 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Boak indeed. The dodgy Pickford has yet to turn up and he most certainly will the more games he gets. Germany are poor but are still managing to put a fair bit of pressure into the area where Pickford is bound to have a howler.



Roll eyes all you want. Kane's scoring record comes from the penalty spot and from being sent gifts from open play into an area he's already standing in. There's nothing wrong with that type of play, he just seems to have forgotten that's what he was good at.
		
Click to expand...

Have you seen the world class keeper that has been playing for Germany? Never makes a mistake or come flapping for a ball he'll never get near? 

Or the lad who plays in goal for France. He's definitely not made any errors resulting in goals for the opposition. 

Then there is a lad called Ronaldo I think. He only scores goals where he wins the ball in his own half and takes on every member of the opposition before setting himself up for an overhead kick. 

Honestly, some of my under 11s have a better appreciation and understanding of football then some of you. And my under 5s of Jimaroid 😂


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			I get the feeling that I am one of the very few who actually want England to do well.
Lots on here are waiting to roll out the 'I told you so' justification for their negativity.
I say  COME ON ENGLAND!
Anyone with me? 

Click to expand...

We have a very negative manager and that rubs off.

But we will win I hope!


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## harpo_72 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



  I guess you haven't watched him much so I'll help you out with a video.




Those are the sort of goals he's capable of. Imagine calling him just a poacher. 

Click to expand...

So where is this guy??


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 24, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			So anyway, back to matters in hand.
Can England beat Germany?
I'm flip flopping on an hourly basis 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Yes. Germany are very similar to us, still finding their way. I heard a German football correspondent on the radio before the last game and he was hugely downbeat. They will be as worried about England as we are about them.

The only coherent team in our side of the draw is Holland. The rest are a mish mash and all will fancy their chances. No reason it can't be us.


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## Jimaroid (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



  I guess you haven't watched him much so I'll help you out with a video.
Those are the sort of goals he's capable of. Imagine calling him just a poacher. 

Click to expand...

Yeah, I know how to use YouTube, thanks but I struggled to find a video of his greatest Euro 2020 goals for some reason.


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## Captainron (Jun 24, 2021)

Tell you what @Orikoru. If your bessie mate scores a hat trick before the end of the tournament - I will take host you on the Hotchkin and get you lunch!

You can then tell me about how good he is for 18 holes.....


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## Jimaroid (Jun 24, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			And my under 5s of Jimaroid 😂
		
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Do you teach your under 5's to use the C-Bomb when you don't like what someone says online?


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## harpo_72 (Jun 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			We have a very negative manager and that rubs off.

But we will win I hope!
		
Click to expand...

There lies the issue, he doesn’t unchain the talent. But that’s because the media and us armchair pundits will gripe about it either way … so far he has delivered 3 clean sheets , not sure if any others have ? 
I think I would direct the criticism at the players.. they are on the pitch they can influence the game. What we are seeing is low performance from key candidates and their reasons for that. For me Sterling hasn’t shown us what he has got frequently enough, Kane is apparently not serviced.. but defensively we have been fine , rattled a few times but fine. 
Saka was a revaluation he went and beat players pressuring the defence to come out to him opening up room to exploit.. Sterling can do that as well, Sancho / Foden can as well .. and Rashford. Grealish is a little more he works well in the right spaces and sucks players in .. we need that and then any older striker will do, even Kane !
Like it or not and I do, I want my mid field nipping and biting the opposition and Henderson does that and he stirs his team up gets them going.. Phillips is good but may be we are not getting the best from him maybe the movements in front of him are slow .. dunno .. but defence is not the issue.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Do you teach your under 5's to use the C-Bomb when you don't like what someone says online?
		
Click to expand...

Only if they deserve it.


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## fundy (Jun 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Tell you what @Orikoru. If your bessie mate scores a hat trick before the end of the tournament - I will take host you on the Hotchkin and get you lunch!

You can then tell me about how good he is for 18 holes.....
		
Click to expand...


forums rooting sooooooooooooo hard for a Kane hat trick now, or at least 2 in the first half for a decent sweat haha


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## Captainron (Jun 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Do you teach your under 5's to use the C-Bomb when you don't like what someone says online?
		
Click to expand...


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## fundy (Jun 24, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Only if they deserve it.
		
Click to expand...


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## harpo_72 (Jun 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Tell you what @Orikoru. If your bessie mate scores a hat trick before the end of the tournament - I will take host you on the Hotchkin and get you lunch!

You can then tell me about how good he is for 18 holes.....
		
Click to expand...

I think you need to promise not to interrupt as well .. and not offer up any statistics that actually highlight any negative points …


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## Captainron (Jun 24, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I think you need to promise not to interrupt as well .. and not offer up any statistics that actually highlight any negative points …
		
Click to expand...

I would only have to listen to it on the tee and green......I am wild so he wouldn't see me for long periods


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## fundy (Jun 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			I would only have to listen to it on the tee and green......I am wild so he wouldn't see me for long periods 

Click to expand...


i have visions of him following you 100 yards off track to help you find your ball to talk you through Kanes hat-trick against Leicester 🤣🤣🤣


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...hed-for-uefa-competitions-from-2021-22-season

Interesting news, outside of the Euros. I think it's fair enough to get rid of it. I imagine it was intended to stop people parking the bus in the away leg and make them more attacking - but they just parked the bus at home instead mostly. Also the factor that extra time gave one team more chance to score an away goal I guess. We're probably better off without it.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...hed-for-uefa-competitions-from-2021-22-season

Interesting news, outside of the Euros. I think it's fair enough to get rid of it. I imagine it was intended to stop people parking the bus in the away leg and make them more attacking - but they just parked the bus at home instead mostly. Also the factor that extra time gave one team more chance to score an away goal I guess. We're probably better off without it.
		
Click to expand...

They should try the golden goal I thought that was a great idea.
Home or away that’s just the luck of the draw.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			So where is this guy??
		
Click to expand...

He's there 

This is Kane in a team built around their best player


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## harpo_72 (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			He's there

This is Kane in a team built around their best player
		
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Ah, you have insulted Spurs players there .. 😳
So is Kane our best player? 
Based on what I have seen I would have said Saka .. he made stuff happen and Grealish has potential.. all the names have been rather quiet except Henderson who ( and I am not a Liverpool fan, I just appreciate good football) gave the 2nd half some energy … I saw no one else outstanding in the last game and sadly I missed Phillips in the first game ( it would have been nice to see him flourish) . 
So I find it a bit pointless building a side around one player, they should be linked units making opportunities for one another (Son and Kane were doing this at some point in the season) .. you see this with Pogba and Mbappe / DeBryne and Lukaku.. England could be so much more than one pair though. 
I would say if you close out Pogba and DeBryne those teams opportunities reduce significantly.. but those teams are or have supporting midfielders that create time for Pogba and DeBryne to move and see space.
Phillips can do that for us and Henderson/mount/Bellingham can make the passes (they also need to do the dirty jobs in the mid as well) 
But Sterling still doesn’t fit for me at the moment .. Sancho/Rashford/Foden/Grealish /Saka should be paired into units and if you want to keep Kane so be it .. but don’t mix and match the units get the players to have an understanding of each other’s game


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## BiMGuy (Jun 24, 2021)

Philips is the key to making it tick (sorry Liverpool fans, Henderson may shout a lot, but he spent more time getting in the way and just kicking it anywhere to make it looknlike he was playing forward). Make him the single pivot in midfield with a solid back three behind and let the full backs press on. There would be no need fir Rice then to allow another forward. 
That would push the whole team forward in my opinion. Effectively playing 5 3 2 without the ball and 3 5 2 with it. 

Or if he wants the balance to be slightly more defensive then play a proper 4141 with Philips sitting in as defensive cover.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Philips is the key to making it tick (sorry Liverpool fans, Henderson may shout a lot, but he spent more time getting in the way and just kicking it anywhere to make it looknlike he was playing forward). Make him the single pivot in midfield with a solid back three behind and let the full backs press on. There would be no need fir Rice then to allow another forward.
That would push the whole team forward in my opinion. Effectively playing 5 3 2 without the ball and 3 5 2 with it.

Or if he wants the balance to be slightly more defensive then play a proper 4141 with Philips sitting in as defensive cover.
		
Click to expand...

I think you're in the minority in thinking the solution is Phillips rather than Rice. I agree with all that you said formation wise, just think Rice is the better holding player.

That being said, he wont change formation will he.. and I do bet he plays Hendo....


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2021)

My predicted Gareth Southgate's 11 - I will stress, not my 11!! 

Pickford
Walker
Stones
Maguire
Shaw
Rice
Henderson
Grealish (assuming Mount doesnt train for the next week)
Foden
Sterling
Kane


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## BiMGuy (Jun 24, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I think you're in the minority in thinking the solution is Phillips rather than Rice. I agree with all that you said formation wise, just think Rice is the better holding player.

That being said, he wont change formation will he.. and I do bet he plays Hendo....
		
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Unfortunately, I bet he will play Hendo. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Phillips v Rice.


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## Hobbit (Jun 24, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			My predicted Gareth Southgate's 11 - I will stress, not my 11!!

Pickford
Walker
Stones
Maguire
Shaw
Rice
Henderson
Grealish (assuming Mount doesnt train for the next week)
Foden
Sterling
Kane
		
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I’d swap Philips for Rice. Looking at the ‘goals for’ for a number of teams, as tight as England are, I feel extra protection is needed. Not sure Rice ticks that box as well as Philips.


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## Dando (Jun 24, 2021)

Gareth Southgate has surprised his England squad by getting Ed Sheeran to play at the training ground

He has warned them that if they don't beat Germany, Ed will play another concert in the changing room and this time James Corden will be there too.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 24, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			I’d swap Philips for Rice. Looking at the ‘goals for’ for a number of teams, as tight as England are, I feel extra protection is needed. Not sure Rice ticks that box as well as Philips.
		
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I can't see Rice starting instead of Phillips. He's the only outfield player to have played every minute so far. 

England’s record with Kalvin Phillips:

846 mins played
11 caps
10 starts
8 wins
2 draws
1 defeat
8 clean sheets 
2 goals conceded. 1 from open play was a defensive error. The other a pen. 

England have conceded 1️⃣ goal from open play and kept 8️⃣ clean sheets in over 14 hours with Kalvin Phillips on the pitch. #ENG https://t.co/GQ5qjrHy4Y


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

But Rice is the more defensive of the two isn't he? I don't think Hendo & Phillips works because they do the same job. Rice is the one who sits and defends.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But Rice is the more defensive of the two isn't he? I don't think Hendo & Phillips works because they do the same job. Rice is the one who sits and defends.
		
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I think rice is very much a main stay in the England team now, I mean Southgate was part of the process to talk him into switching nations then (unlike grealish) he was thrust into the team and hasn't really missed that many games since I believe?

I think Southgate sees him as key to what he wants to achieve .. ironically he would sit there and allow our attacking players more freedom

Yet their on the bench lol 🤣


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## DanFST (Jun 24, 2021)

Rice doesn't give the ball away and goes and gets it a fair bit. 

Must be great to have someone like that behind you.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Ah, you have insulted Spurs players there .. 😳
So is Kane our best player? 
Based on what I have seen I would have said Saka .. he made stuff happen and Grealish has potential.. all the names have been rather quiet except Henderson who ( and I am not a Liverpool fan, I just appreciate good football) gave the 2nd half some energy … I saw no one else outstanding in the last game and sadly I missed Phillips in the first game ( it would have been nice to see him flourish) . 
So I find it a bit pointless building a side around one player, they should be linked units making opportunities for one another (Son and Kane were doing this at some point in the season) .. you see this with Pogba and Mbappe / DeBryne and Lukaku.. England could be so much more than one pair though. 
I would say if you close out Pogba and DeBryne those teams opportunities reduce significantly.. but those teams are or have supporting midfielders that create time for Pogba and DeBryne to move and see space.
Phillips can do that for us and Henderson/mount/Bellingham can make the passes (they also need to do the dirty jobs in the mid as well) 
But Sterling still doesn’t fit for me at the moment .. Sancho/Rashford/Foden/Grealish /Saka should be paired into units and if you want to keep Kane so be it .. but don’t mix and match the units get the players to have an understanding of each other’s game
		
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But based on what you seen in a poorly set up side 

Stats have Kane as our key player 

And performances long term have him 

Plus 23 goals this season in the league


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Rice doesn't give the ball away and goes and gets it a fair bit. 

Must be great to have someone like that behind you.
		
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And in front if your stones and maigure


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## pokerjoke (Jun 24, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Ah, you have insulted Spurs players there .. 😳
So is Kane our best player? 
Based on what I have seen I would have said Saka .. he made stuff happen and Grealish has potential.. all the names have been rather quiet except Henderson who ( and I am not a Liverpool fan, I just appreciate good football) gave the 2nd half some energy … I saw no one else outstanding in the last game and sadly I missed Phillips in the first game ( it would have been nice to see him flourish) . 
So I find it a bit pointless building a side around one player, they should be linked units making opportunities for one another (Son and Kane were doing this at some point in the season) .. you see this with Pogba and Mbappe / DeBryne and Lukaku.. England could be so much more than one pair though. 
I would say if you close out Pogba and DeBryne those teams opportunities reduce significantly.. but those teams are or have supporting midfielders that create time for Pogba and DeBryne to move and see space.
Phillips can do that for us and Henderson/mount/Bellingham can make the passes (they also need to do the dirty jobs in the mid as well) 
But Sterling still doesn’t fit for me at the moment .. Sancho/Rashford/Foden/Grealish /Saka should be paired into units and if you want to keep Kane so be it .. but don’t mix and match the units get the players to have an understanding of each other’s game
		
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Sorry mate but saying Saka has been our best player after one game,well I would have to question that,albeit he had a very good game.
Phillips in the first game was just as good albeit different roles.
Pickford,Stones,Mings,Maguire all have done their job well.
As for people’s view on Sterling I find it all quite extraordinary and baffling.
Sterling’s movement,his speed,his link up play,his chasing back,his 2 goals keeping us in the tournament,and people still knock him.
Whilst he certainly hasn’t played to his maximum and very best form he’s one of the first on the team sheet and I can see why.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Sorry mate but saying Saka has been our best player after one game,well I would have to question that,albeit he had a very good game.
Phillips in the first game was just as good albeit different roles.
Pickford,Stones,Mings,Maguire all have done their job well.
As for people’s view on Sterling I find it all quite extraordinary and baffling.
Sterling’s movement,his speed,his link up play,his chasing back,his 2 goals keeping us in the tournament,and people still knock him.
Whilst he certainly hasn’t played to his maximum and very best form he’s one of the first on the team sheet and I can see why.
		
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Maybe put Sterling on bench to see if he comes on ready to go… but he hasn’t done any of the things you have mentioned and Saka hasn’t been given game time, so dropping him for a historical record before this tournament is a little mean and illogical.. play your best and most hungry players, not the ones taking it for granted.
Mcguire’s return was good, but Stones was good and Mings was good .. I think defensively we are fine we have enough talent to cover. But the attack needs to be freshened up, rested if you like .. 5 subs is a huge opportunity to really mix the units and keep it high paced . If your fast at the front the rear is safe, because you press early and aggressively. Then change those 3 players at half time and go again ..


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## harpo_72 (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			But based on what you seen in a poorly set up side

Stats have Kane as our key player

And performances long term have him

Plus 23 goals this season in the league
		
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But he isn’t doing it nor is he making it happen … let it go … break convention.. a mobile striker would definitely wind up the opposition defence .. and Kane isn’t doing that, maybe he will benefit after as a sub


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			But he isn’t doing it nor is he making it happen … let it go … break convention.. a mobile striker would definitely wind up the opposition defence .. and Kane isn’t doing that, maybe he will benefit after as a sub
		
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We are in the knock out now.. the time to bench him for a rest has gone. No use benching him hoping he will be better then we go out 

Vardy would be causing choas in this team


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## pokerjoke (Jun 24, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Maybe put Sterling on bench to see if he comes on ready to go… but he hasn’t done any of the things you have mentioned and Saka hasn’t been given game time, so dropping him for a historical record before this tournament is a little mean and illogical.. play your best and most hungry players, not the ones taking it for granted.
Mcguire’s return was good, but Stones was good and Mings was good .. I think defensively we are fine we have enough talent to cover. But the attack needs to be freshened up, rested if you like .. 5 subs is a huge opportunity to really mix the units and keep it high paced . If your fast at the front the rear is safe, because you press early and aggressively. Then change those 3 players at half time and go again ..
		
Click to expand...

You don’t freshen up now when it’s knockout that should of been done before.
Obviously you didn’t see the first game.
We were poor vs Scotland and better in the last game.
Sterling will not be rested and he doesn’t look tired.
Also putting the guy who’s actually scoring goals on the bench is a ludicrous suggestion


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## fundy (Jun 24, 2021)

looks like the brains trust at Arsenal are going to have to go to £50m for Ben White whilst giving Mavropanos away to Stuttgart and ensuring that Saliba goes out on loan again 

I hope theyve got another £200m+ in the pot otherwise that really is a monumental misuse of almost all their transfer budget with the glaring holes there are in the squad elsewhere, not that it would be a shock based on the last decade of tfrs


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## harpo_72 (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			We are in the knock out now.. the time to bench him for a rest has gone. No use benching him hoping he will be better then we go out

Vardy would be causing choas in this team
		
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Vardy would be awesome he gives you that frightening edge up front


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## harpo_72 (Jun 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You don’t freshen up now when it’s knockout that should of been done before.
Obviously you didn’t see the first game.
We were poor vs Scotland and better in the last game.
Sterling will not be rested and he doesn’t look tired.
Also putting the guy who’s actually scoring goals on the bench is a ludicrous suggestion
		
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He has missed more than he has scored and then becomes completely invisible…


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## chrisd (Jun 24, 2021)

BrianM said:



			With the talent in that England team, finalists is the minimum they should be looking at.
		
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If we're that good why am I seeing so many derogatory comments about Pickford, Kane, Sterling etc etc . No, we are capable of winning it but also of crashing out in the next round, after all we couldn't even beat Scotland!


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## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2021)

chrisd said:



			If we're that good why am I seeing so many derogatory comments about Pickford, Kane, Sterling etc etc . No, we are capable of winning it but also of crashing out in the next round, after all we couldn't even beat Scotland!
		
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Generally speaking, I can't criticise or fault any of the player's effort to be honest. Most of the questions have been aimed at Southgate and his tactics. But we are a nation of nit-pickers and worriers, in the grand picture the group stage is nothing more than an extra qualifying round with only a few teams going out, and we've got it out of the way unscathed. We just need to make that step up in performance now or we won't get past Germany, that's all.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 24, 2021)

chrisd said:



*If we're that good* why am I seeing so many derogatory comments about Pickford, Kane, Sterling etc etc . No, we are capable of winning it but also of crashing out in the next round, after all we couldn't even beat Scotland!
		
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The simple answer is that we're not "that good". Looking at the available players then we have the potential to be "that good" but at the minute we aren't and most/all of that is down to the manager and how we're set up to not lose. I can only imagine what a manager like Pep or Klopp would do with the players we've got.


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## Billysboots (Jun 24, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			The simple answer is that we're not "that good". Looking at the available players then we have the potential to be "that good" but at the minute we aren't and most/all of that is down to the manager and how we're set up to not lose. I can only imagine what a manager like Pep or Klopp would do with the players we've got.
		
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My hope is that some of the shackles come off now we’re out of the group.

Southgate has to be prepared to place trust in his creative players and take some calculated risks. Setting up not to lose now we’re in the knockout stages is pointless - we have to try and win.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 24, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Vardy would be awesome he gives you that frightening edge up front
		
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Said same to my mate,would’ve been a good option to have on the bench.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 24, 2021)

Dando said:



			Gareth Southgate has surprised his England squad by getting Ed Sheeran to play at the training ground

He has warned them that if they don't beat Germany, Ed will play another concert in the changing room and this time James Corden will be there too.
		
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Ed could make a difference in the holding role.
But Corden isn’t good enough to replace Kane.


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## Billysboots (Jun 24, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Said same to my mate,would’ve been a good option to have on the bench.
		
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A couple of mates who are Leicester season ticket holders reckon Vardy is not the player he was - the suggestion is he’s lost a yard of pace and looked very out of sorts for much of the second half of the season.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			A couple of mates who are Leicester season ticket holders reckon Vardy is not the player he was - the suggestion is he’s lost a yard of pace and looked very out of sorts for much of the second half of the season.
		
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Where are all our pacey strikers 

Not wingers .  Proper fast forwards 

Like Wilson but better


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## Billysboots (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Where are all our pacey strikers 

Not wingers .  Proper fast forwards 

Like Wilson but better
		
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Not sure we have that many options, to be honest. But, even in the event Vardy was available, should we pick him simply because he’s the least worst option? His returns for Leicester have been very patchy these last few months.


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## chrisd (Jun 24, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			The simple answer is that we're not "that good". Looking at the available players then we have the potential to be "that good" but at the minute we aren't and most/all of that is down to the manager and how we're set up to not lose. I can only imagine what a manager like Pep or Klopp would do with the players we've got.
		
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Orikoru said:



			Generally speaking, I can't criticise or fault any of the player's effort to be honest. Most of the questions have been aimed at Southgate and his tactics. But we are a nation of nit-pickers and worriers, in the grand picture the group stage is nothing more than an extra qualifying round with only a few teams going out, and we've got it out of the way unscathed. We just need to make that step up in performance now or we won't get past Germany, that's all.
		
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I was just answering BrianM's assertion that we will underachieve if we dont make the final. Seems to me he's just trying to set us up for some trolling !


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## pauljames87 (Jun 24, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Not sure we have that many options, to be honest. But, even in the event Vardy was available, should we pick him simply because he’s the least worst option? His returns for Leicester have been very patchy these last few months.
		
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Vardy has retired from international football so it's a moot point


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 24, 2021)

chrisd said:



			I was just answering BrianM's assertion that we will underachieve if we dont make the final. *Seems to me he's just trying to set us up for some trolling *!
		
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In fairness a fair bit has been handed out to our cousins from North of the wall, you can hardly blame them (well, most of them... )


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## BrianM (Jun 24, 2021)

chrisd said:



			I was just answering BrianM's assertion that we will underachieve if we dont make the final. Seems to me he's just trying to set us up for some trolling !
		
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Trolling, seriously?

The England squad on paper is only second to France in my opinion.
If you get past Germany then the door is wide open to get to the final, that’s not saying you won’t have difficult games, teams aren’t just going to lie down, but you should have enough quality to get through.
You had a great qualification from the group, yet England fans still aren’t happy, Southgate is doing something right, it’s obvious with the set up that he’s worried about the centre half’s.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 24, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			A couple of mates who are Leicester season ticket holders reckon Vardy is not the player he was - the suggestion is he’s lost a yard of pace and looked very out of sorts for much of the second half of the season.
		
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Maybe not then as he obviously relies on his pace.


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## Billysboots (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Vardy has retired from international football so it's a moot point
		
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Which was why I said “in the event he was available”.


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## Jimaroid (Jun 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Vardy has retired from international football so it's a moot point
		
Click to expand...

Ooooh! Get you, moot point indeed! 

This hypothetical court of football expertise in which we sit, amongst armchair managers, fantasy pundits, self ordained experts in laws of the game, ex-professional television referees, a place where even Spurs fans are humoured to have any opinion of note, to wit this thread and the entire subject of debate is a moot.

But I’m sure you knew that before trying to make a clever remark.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



  I guess you haven't watched him much so I'll help you out with a video.




Those are the sort of goals he's capable of. Imagine calling him just a poacher. 

Click to expand...

Loved the goal against Southampton when VVD slashed at the ball like a Sunday league pub player 😂😂


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## chrisd (Jun 24, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			In fairness a fair bit has been handed out to our cousins from North of the wall, you can hardly blame them (well, most of them... )
		
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Absolutely  agree!


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## chrisd (Jun 24, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Trolling, seriously?

The England squad on paper is only second to France in my opinion.
If you get past Germany then the door is wide open to get to the final, that’s not saying you won’t have difficult games, teams aren’t just going to lie down, but you should have enough quality to get through.
You had a great qualification from the group, yet England fans still aren’t happy, Southgate is doing something right, it’s obvious with the set up that he’s worried about the centre half’s.
		
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That's how it was feeling, but I apologise if I've got it wrong


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 24, 2021)

Fantastic rollout - 76% of adults over 40 have now been offered the Tottenham Hotspur manager's job.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 24, 2021)




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## pendodave (Jun 24, 2021)




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## Bdill93 (Jun 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But Rice is the more defensive of the two isn't he? I don't think Hendo & Phillips works because they do the same job. Rice is the one who sits and defends.
		
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Exactly this

Rice is the better holding player, there's no doubt in my mind that hes starting! I remain hopeful GS doesnt play Hendo and does play phillips - but we will see...


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## Beezerk (Jun 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Exactly this

Rice is the better holding player, there's no doubt in my mind that hes starting! I remain hopeful GS doesnt play Hendo and does play phillips - but we will see...
		
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Henderson needs to chill out if he plays, he's trying too hard and not doing the simple stuff right.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 25, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Henderson needs to chill out if he plays, he's trying too hard and bit doing the simple stuff right.
		
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Just desperate to be relevant for England I imagine! Been out ages before the Euros.

He does look to pass forward more than Phillips - but I'd much rather have Phillips legs in this next game!


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## Beezerk (Jun 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			He does look to pass forward more than Phillips - but I'd much rather have Phillips legs in this next game!
		
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Hollywood Henderson 🙈


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Just desperate to be relevant for England I imagine! Been out ages before the Euros.

He does look to pass forward more than Phillips - but I'd much rather have Phillips legs in this next game!
		
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This is the issue I have with Henderson.

Its not that he is a bad player he clearly isn't 

He just isn't fit and shoe horning him back in when Phillips offers similar 

To pencil him in for leadership meh . Not at expense of match fitness

However last 20 min of games to see out ? Yes can see that


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## Hobbit (Jun 25, 2021)

Just what did Henderson do wrong when he came on in the last match? For me, he seemed solid and reliable. And he actually looked to get the ball forward.

Many on here, myself included, have criticised the negativity England have displayed but some also criticise Henderson for being positive. The guy just can’t win with some people.


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## Orikoru (Jun 25, 2021)

He celebrated a goal where he was about two yards offside which made him look stupid anyway.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Just what did Henderson do wrong when he came on in the last match? For me, he seemed solid and reliable. And he actually looked to get the ball forward.

Many on here, myself included, have criticised the negativity England have displayed but some also criticise Henderson for being positive. The guy just can’t win with some people.
		
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The second half was awful, tbh it seemed like because he rested rice he took Phillips out the advanced position and shackled him with defensive duties 

First game philips was most people's mom he was much more advanced there

Against the sweaties he was much more defensive

I do feel sorry for Henderson

If covid hadnt hit and this was last season 

Fit and off the back of a storming season he would be a shoe in 

As it is he is injured or was, off back of average season and Phillips has emerged


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He celebrated a goal where he was about two yards offside which made him look stupid anyway. 

Click to expand...


I think we all have done that lol


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## Beezerk (Jun 25, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Just what did Henderson do wrong when he came on in the last match? For me, he seemed solid and reliable. And he actually looked to get the ball forward.

Many on here, myself included, have criticised the negativity England have displayed but some also criticise Henderson for being positive. The guy just can’t win with some people.
		
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I just don't rate  him as a high quality footballer,  I never have. 
Back him in an England shirt, 100% I will, he's one of the best we have doing that clean up role, but ask me to talk nicely about his footballing qualities, that ain't gonna come from me 😆


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## BiMGuy (Jun 25, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Just what did Henderson do wrong when he came on in the last match? For me, he seemed solid and reliable. And he actually looked to get the ball forward.

Many on here, myself included, have criticised the negativity England have displayed but some also criticise Henderson for being positive. The guy just can’t win with some people.
		
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Smashing the ball forward and shouting may have appeared to be playing positively. But it's not really. 

He had a couple of good seasons, but he's just not as good as Phillips and Rice. Especially when not fit.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Smashing the ball forward and shouting may have appeared to be playing positively. But it's not really. 

He had a couple of good seasons, but he's just not as good as Phillips and Rice. Especially when not fit.
		
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When fully fit and firing it's close between them and you have to have Henderson for experience in big games ATM 

However he isn't fit and is getting on will be 32 next world cup so suspect that will be his last major tournament with Phillips and rice plus Bellingham the new breed


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## Hobbit (Jun 25, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I just don't rate  him as a high quality footballer,  I never have.
Back him in an England shirt, 100% I will, he's one of the best we have doing that clean up role, but ask me to talk nicely about his footballing qualities, that ain't gonna come from me 😆
		
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Bearing in mind the different roles different players are asked to do, I don’t disagree with a lot of what you’ve said. And, perhaps, a telling statistic… Henderson’s pass completion ratio compared to De Bruyne. 88.8% ‘v’ 78.1% in favour of Henderson. But when you look further into it De Bruyne’s goals and assists ratio is far higher, and then look at a pitch map showing where they played.

There’s no getting away from the fact De Bruyne is one of the best in the world, but as you say Henderson is one of the best we have. If 80% fit, I’d put his name on the team sheet.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 25, 2021)

Another Grealish link to city...


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## Beezerk (Jun 25, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			but as you say Henderson is one of the best we have. If 80% fit, I’d put his name on the team sheet.
		
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It would be very harsh on Phillips to drop him imo, he's played pretty well. The fact you don't really notice him in a game says a lot, the only things I notice from Henderson are getting into other players space and trying to force the play too much thus giving the ball away cheaply. If anything I'd have Bellingham in the team instead of Phillips, he's definitely the future for England at CM. Nice choices to have though.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Another Grealish link to city... 

Click to expand...

We'll see if he believes is own hype now then. Or whether he's happy to play the big fish in a small pond.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 25, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			We'll see if he believes is own hype now then. Or whether he's happy to play the big fish in a small pond.
		
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Not sure he's the decision maker on this one - He would obviously do well at City, but the club dont have to let him go. And they wont if they truly want to go places.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Not sure he's the decision maker on this one - He would obviously do well at City, but the club dont have to let him go. And they wont if they truly want to go places.
		
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Kane I'd love to see go city as he will break Shearer's record there ...

Grealish on the other hand , as good as he is how long before city buy el grealisho and he gets wasted like so many great English talents

Now if United came calling different story 

If United were serious in the transfer market I'd like to see them buy, Kane, rice and grealish .. what a force they would be then


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## Bdill93 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Kane I'd love to see go city as he will break Shearer's record there ...

Grealish on the other hand , as good as he is how long before city buy el grealisho and he gets wasted like so many great English talents

Now if United came calling different story

If United were serious in the transfer market I'd like to see them buy, Kane, rice and grealish .. what a force they would be then
		
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United are a mess - have been for ages. I'd hate to see him go there.

But I also agree, wasted at City with all the talent they have around the place, and will inevitably continue to add to...


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## SteveW86 (Jun 25, 2021)

Surely if Grealish goes to City and he is good enough then he wont be replaced. Yes, they will add to the squad like they have always done but they still have a core team.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			United are a mess - have been for ages. I'd hate to see him go there.

But I also agree, wasted at City with all the talent they have around the place, and will inevitably continue to add to...
		
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Yeah, if they add Kane they can't add much better in that position and they don't have much quality there so would make sense 

Grealish would become a number 

Liverpool he would suit with their fluid football 

Man United I'd like tho because those 3 players would add to their squad in a good way. They would be pushing for the title every year


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Surely if Grealish goes to City and he is good enough then he wont be replaced. Yes, they will add to the squad like they have always done but they still have a core team.
		
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If he goes there he will become one of many 

Sometimes rested to give another a game 

ATM if he fit he starts which is better for England imo


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## Orikoru (Jun 25, 2021)

Would love to see Grealish and Foden playing together as it would only benefit England - but there is just too many bodies in that City squad. De Bruyne has to play, then you've got Bernardo, Sterling, Mahrez, and Ferran Torres who they've only just brought in. Minutes would be quite hard to come by, no matter how good you are. 

Much as I dislike them, Chelsea would be a good move for Grealish. Champion's League football, plus they've never truly replaced Hazard, Grealish would bring some of that ability to beat players that he had.


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## SteveW86 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If he goes there he will become one of many

Sometimes rested to give another a game

ATM if he fit he starts which is better for England imo
		
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So we are saying he isnt good enough to be a core member of the City team. 

I know De Bruyne is a special case, but he is very rarely dropped, I imagine that will now be the case for Dias at the back. I still stand by that if he is good enough he would rarely not play, even given Citys squad. If he wants to get to the very top then he needs to take the risk that he might "fail" at City.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			So we are saying he isnt good enough to be a core member of the City team. 

I know De Bruyne is a special case, but he is very rarely dropped, I imagine that will now be the case for Dias at the back. I still stand by that if he is good enough he would rarely not play, even given Citys squad. If he wants to get to the very top then he needs to take the risk that he might "fail" at City.
		
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It's not even being dropped its rested 

Even ederson got a rest one game 

Kdb was rested a few times 

Pep is a nightmare for fantasy football managers!


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## SteveW86 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			It's not even being dropped its rested

Even ederson got a rest one game

Kdb was rested a few times

Pep is a nightmare for fantasy football managers!
		
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Yes, everyone can be rested for a game or two when needed but the teams most important players are generally rested less.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 25, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			( isn’t a 1 trick pony) .
		
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He's not a pony, he's a donkey, according to cam, who is an ass.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 25, 2021)

If Grealish wants a game every week then forget City, if he doesn't want tough love then forget Chelsea or Utd. Best come to Everton Jack, we will look after you 

(I take it FFP no longer matters?)


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If Grealish wants a game every week then forget City, if he doesn't want tough love then forget Chelsea or Utd. Best come to Everton Jack, we will look after you 

(I take it FFP no longer matters?)
		
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Na come west ham, can offer him Europa and lingards spot


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Another Grealish link to city... 

Click to expand...

Bradford, or Bristol?


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## Bdill93 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Na come west ham, can offer him Europa and lingards spot
		
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Stunned you havent moved to sign Lingard yet...


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## Bdill93 (Jun 25, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Bradford, or Bristol?

Click to expand...

Id take him at Worcester!


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Stunned you havent moved to sign Lingard yet...
		
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Moyes is doing something ATM for uefa I believe I read somewhere 

The euros is on which players don't want to move before 

I believe it's hinges on Sancho going to United .. so until that happens


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

Arsenal to offer stadium tours as part of the jab drive ...

I thought the idea was to get more people to take it not put them off


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## SteveW86 (Jun 25, 2021)




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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Kane I'd love to see go city as he will break Shearer's record there ...

Grealish on the other hand , as good as he is how long before city buy el grealisho and he gets wasted like so many great English talents

Now if United came calling different story

*If United were serious in the transfer market I'd like to see them buy, Kane, rice and grealish .. what a force they would be then*

Click to expand...

Genuine question, Why would a West Ham fan like that?


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## fundy (Jun 25, 2021)

oh the irony of some of these posts lol


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## Papas1982 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Genuine question, Why would a West Ham fan like that?
		
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I know not asking me, but from my pov. 

I accept we aren't gonna be in a tittle race. So the more strong teams competing, the better. 

Makes a better specticle.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Genuine question, Why would a West Ham fan like that?
		
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I want to see Kane break Shearer's record.
Rice isn't going to stay at us forever and seems a good fit for United 
Grealish would flourish there 

Would really help England aswell


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I want to see Kane break Shearer's record.
Rice isn't going to stay at us forever and seems a good fit for United
Grealish would flourish there

Would really help England aswell
		
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Cheers.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 25, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I know not asking me, but from my pov.

I accept we aren't gonna be in a tittle race. So the more strong teams competing, the better.

Makes a better specticle.
		
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No issue in what you say, accepting there are stronger teams is fair enough, but you can still admire those teams without wanting to see them improve by losing one of your own, hence why I asked.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			No issue in what you say, accepting there are stronger teams is fair enough, but you can still admire those teams without wanting to see them improve by losing one of your own, hence why I asked.

Click to expand...

Ah yeah. The losing one of your own bit was lost in me. 

Can certainly say I didn't wish VVD, Mane etc well....


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Cheers.
		
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I hope / think we have one more season (possible more) with rice 

We have built a team around him and soucek, he seems very happy here 

He's on the field captain. We got Europa so it's another stage for him to try 

He's a young man so it's not like Kane where he's given spurs a long time and now he is 27 might be seeing time to move.. he's what 22 now .. shown that he can become an England regular even playing with us 

Covid has hit teams finances so nobody is likely to meet our valuation of him so I'm hoping 1-2 more seasons out of him before we have to see him in another shirt 

But wish him well


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## Bdill93 (Jun 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I hope / think we have one more season (possible more) with rice

We have built a team around him and soucek, he seems very happy here

He's on the field captain. We got Europa so it's another stage for him to try

He's a young man so it's not like Kane where he's given spurs a long time and now he is 27 might be seeing time to move.. he's what 22 now .. shown that he can become an England regular even playing with us

Covid has hit teams finances so nobody is likely to meet our valuation of him so I'm hoping 1-2 more seasons out of him before we have to see him in another shirt

But wish him well
		
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I'd say he's off when Chelsea decide Kante cant do a job any more..


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## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I'd say he's off when Chelsea decide Kante cant do a job any more..
		
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I heard from a reliable source lampards chasing of him was part of his sacking 

Chelsea don't want to pay big money for someone they let go he was told to leave it apparently


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 25, 2021)

Karim Benzema scored a goal in the first half during stoppage time with the clock at 46:44. He then scores again in the second half... at 46:44. He scored two goals at the exact same time to the second!

V Portugal


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## larmen (Jun 25, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			The Swiss keeper needs to stop bouncing when Italy shoot.

Both feet off the floor as the player shoots gove him no chance of making a save for goals 2 and 3.

Small error in his basic technique, has massive consequences.
		
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The largest German football magazine Kicker has published their too 11 of the group stages, and they put Sommer in goal.

Also having Ronaldo, Lukaku, DeBroyne, .. the usual suspects.


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## Orikoru (Jun 25, 2021)

larmen said:



			The largest German football magazine Kicker has published their too 11 of the group stages, and they put Sommer in goal.

Also having Ronaldo, Lukaku, DeBroyne, .. the usual suspects.
		
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They picked a keeper who let in 5 goals and only made 6 saves? I have to question that one.   The Welsh keeper Ward for example made 13 saves and only conceded twice. As much as I slate him, Pickford has to be up there with the best keepers for his 3 performances so far. 4 saves and none conceded. Courtois 6 saves and conceded once. How the hell have they picked the Swiss goalie??


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			They picked a keeper who let in 5 goals and only made 6 saves? I have to question that one.   The Welsh keeper Ward for example made 13 saves and only conceded twice. As much as I slate him, Pickford has to be up there with the best keepers for his 3 performances so far. 4 saves and none conceded. Courtois 6 saves and conceded once. How the hell have they picked the Swiss goalie??
		
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You never heard of bribery.?
Couple of Toblerones will do it.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You never heard of bribery.?
Couple of Toblerones will do it.
		
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That’s Swiss politics


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Not many anthems better than that. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿. 

The only downside to the game is robbie savage is co commentator 😕


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## Beezerk (Jun 26, 2021)

Blimey, this is like men vs boys at the minute


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Blimey, this is like men vs boys at the minute 

Click to expand...

Wales have 1 exceptional player, 1 very good player and the others are meh. They aren't a good team really, have punched above their weight to get to this point. Denmark are a decent team and should have too much for them.


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## Orikoru (Jun 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Wales have 1 exceptional player, 1 very good player and the others are meh. They aren't a good team really, have punched above their weight to get to this point. Denmark are a decent team and should have too much for them.
		
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In fairness missing Eriksen and now Poulsen I didn't think Denmark had that much about them. They've bossed the first half though. Wales need to change it up.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 26, 2021)

Ooooops! 😂😂😂😂😂


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## Orikoru (Jun 26, 2021)

Absolute shocker from Neco Williams, dear oh dear. Game over unless Wales improve rapidly.


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## Old Skier (Jun 26, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Ooooops! 😂😂😂😂😂
		
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Steady, England yet to play.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Steady, England yet to play.
		
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We can lose just as easily, I think we all know that 😁.

Wales are giving it everything and that is all you can ask. If England do the same and go out then I won't complain.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 26, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Steady, England yet to play.
		
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And?

We could still go out obviously. Doesn't make that any less funny 🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Heads gone for Wales. Sad end for them.

Strong performance by Denmark


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## Orikoru (Jun 26, 2021)

How was that a red? Complete joke. 100% yellow card challenge that. Still, Wales haven't turned up at all today unfortunately.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 26, 2021)

Well, having seen how the Liverpool players have performed today, maybe I don't want Henderson in the team after all 🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			How was that a red? Complete joke. 100% yellow card challenge that. Still, Wales haven't turned up at all today unfortunately.
		
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I wouldn't mind if that became default for a challenge like that. No intention of playing the ball, he just took the guy out. He wasn't injured but he could have been. 

Hopefully that is an edict brought in by uefa and will be carried over into the PL


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## pauljames87 (Jun 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Heads gone for Wales. Sad end for them.

Strong performance by Denmark
		
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The Erickson situation could have gone two ways for them as a team 

Shock them so much they fail to perform the rest of the tournament

Or 

Inspire them to play and add a gear 

Could be another greece


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## Golfmmad (Jun 26, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Trolling, seriously?

The England squad on paper is only second to France in my opinion.
If you get past Germany then the door is wide open to get to the final, that’s not saying you won’t have difficult games, teams aren’t just going to lie down, but you should have enough quality to get through.
You had a great qualification from the group, yet England fans still aren’t happy, Southgate is doing something right, it’s obvious with the set up that he’s worried about the centre half’s.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			Not many anthems better than that. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿. 

The only downside to the game is robbie savage is co commentator 😕
		
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I have to say that I thought Robbie Savages commentary was first class. Gave plenty of compliments to the Danish and called it exactly as it was, Denmark were just too good for them.


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## Old Skier (Jun 26, 2021)

We didn’t turn up but the team did have the opportunity to see parts of Europe they never thought they would see


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			I have to say that I thought Robbie Savages commentary was first class. Gave plenty of compliments to the Danish and called it exactly as it was, Denmark were just too good for them.
		
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He actually was okay today. It's a shame it takes Wales getting stuffed to calm him down.


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## GreiginFife (Jun 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The Erickson situation could have gone two ways for them as a team

Shock them so much they fail to perform the rest of the tournament

Or

Inspire them to play and add a gear

*Could be another greece*

Click to expand...

Or another... er, Denmark 😂


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## AmandaJR (Jun 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He actually was okay today. It's a shame it takes Wales getting stuffed to calm him down.
		
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I thought from the start he was calmer - might have had a talking to after the shambles in previous games!


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## Golfmmad (Jun 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He actually was okay today. It's a shame it takes Wales getting stuffed to calm him down.
		
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I didn't see the Turkey game but did hear some of his commentary on the One Show.
Surely just an excited and passionate Welsh man, who you would expect nothing less from.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			I didn't see the Turkey game but did hear some of his commentary on the One Show.
Surely just an excited and passionate Welsh man, who you would expect nothing less from.
		
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He is meant to be a professional though, not a Welsh white van man given a microphone for the day. I find him generally poor and irritating. Today was better but Wales going out will probably end his time in the tournament.


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## pendodave (Jun 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I wouldn't mind if that became default for a challenge like that. No intention of playing the ball, he just took the guy out. He wasn't injured but he could have been. 

Hopefully that is an edict brought in by uefa and will be carried over into the PL
		
Click to expand...

I know what you mean, but given the history of our referees over that last few years with new interpretations, it would surely end in chaos (and 4 aside in any game with Mike Dean in charge).


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## Orikoru (Jun 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The Erickson situation could have gone two ways for them as a team

Shock them so much they fail to perform the rest of the tournament

Or

Inspire them to play and add a gear

Could be another greece
		
Click to expand...

I did think the commentary team were over-egging that for the narrative though. Obviously the Eriksen incident is why they lost the Finland game, impossible to come out and perform then. But since then they started well against Belgium but got turned over, then two impressive wins against Russia and Wales who are not the biggest heavyweights in the draw - but I still think a decent side puts them out. Likely Holland in the next round.


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## Beezerk (Jun 26, 2021)

John Aldridge is fecking dire 🙈


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			John Aldridge is fecking dire 🙈
		
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Radio?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

pendodave said:



			I know what you mean, but given the history of our referees over that last few years with new interpretations, it would surely end in chaos (and 4 aside in any game with Mike Dean in charge).
		
Click to expand...

The refs and var in this tournament have been excellent. It should be the template for the PL next season.  I'm not holding my breath for that though 😕


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## AmandaJR (Jun 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The refs and var in this tournament have been excellent. It should be the template for the PL next season.  I'm not holding my breath for that though 😕
		
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Strikes me the ones looking at VAR are not about bigging up their part and being total jobsworths...quick look, make a decision and that's that. The final Denmark goal was the exception that it took a while.

Refs have let a lot go - feel like they're saying "get up you nancy he barely touched you"!!


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## pendodave (Jun 26, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Refs have let a lot go - feel like they're saying "get up you nancy he barely touched you"!!
		
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Agreed. I think this also happens during the knockout games in the champions league. It's as if good refs can tell when players are just falling over...


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## Beezerk (Jun 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Radio?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, he's on the TV though isn't he 👀


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## fundy (Jun 26, 2021)

the clown on tv is danny murphy isnt it


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Yes, he's on the TV though isn't he 👀
		
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If you are watching on BBC then it's Danny Murphy 😄


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## Beezerk (Jun 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			the clown on tv is danny murphy isnt it
		
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Oh Christ, you may be right. Just as bad though 😅


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## fundy (Jun 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Oh Christ, you may be right. Just as bad though 😅
		
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hes utterly horrendous, no need to bring aldridge into it tho


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## Golfmmad (Jun 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is meant to be a professional though, not a Welsh white van man given a microphone for the day. I find him generally poor and irritating. Today was better but Wales going out will probably end his time in the tournament.
		
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I can't really argue with that, as I said earlier, I didn't watch the game with Turkey.
But I wouldn't call him a "White van man".
I mean, I sometimes drive a white van! 😁


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			I can't really argue with that, as I said earlier, I didn't watch the game with Turkey.
But I wouldn't call him a "White van man".
I mean, I sometimes drive a white van! 😁
		
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Ha ha, fair cop. It's a lazy phrase but you knew exactly what I meant. We need another description that people understand but doesn't tar decent 'white van man'  😄


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## IainP (Jun 26, 2021)

Has VAR been slower in the games played in England? 😉😁

Italy not looking so invincible now...


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## IanM (Jun 26, 2021)

Austria had a couple of close calls go against them... Italy going through


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## fundy (Jun 26, 2021)

IainP said:



			Has VAR been slower in the games played in England? 😉😁

Italy not looking so invincible now...
		
Click to expand...


just be grateful Atwell didnt make a massive blunder lol


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## HeftyHacker (Jun 26, 2021)

Austria have really impressed me tonight. Not watched too much of the euros to date but they've ended up being my second team due to the goalkeeper being married to my partners cousin. Really nice guy and has had a hell of a year careerwise! Gone from not making the bench for Watford to being first choice, getting promoted to the Premier League to then being recalled for Austria and becoming first choice for the Euros!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2021)

Not sure 30 minutes of extra time is too enticing a prospect based on that second half.

Austria have been excellent tonight at nullifying a previously strong looking Italian team. The Italians seem to have run out of ideas.

Edit: that should liven things up


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## IainP (Jun 26, 2021)

Great skill for the goal.

Not sure an England sub coming of the bench could pull that off, but hope I'm wrong 😁


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## fundy (Jun 26, 2021)

IainP said:



			Great skill for the goal.

Not sure an England sub coming of the bench could pull that off, but hope I'm wrong 😁
		
Click to expand...


should be starting for me, think hes utterly top class Chiesa


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## hairball_89 (Jun 26, 2021)

IainP said:



			Has VAR been slower in the games played in England? 😉😁

Italy not looking so invincible now...
		
Click to expand...

Isn't it funny that there's barely been an issue with VAR, and specifically the speed at which decisions are made. *Apart from* the English VAR official, who took an age with every decision today?! But it's VAR that needs binning and not our refs in the domestic football, apparently!


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## 4LEX (Jun 27, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Isn't it funny that there's barely been an issue with VAR, and specifically the speed at which decisions are made. *Apart from* the English VAR official, who took an age with every decision today?! But it's VAR that needs binning and not our refs in the domestic football, apparently!
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. The entire tournament VAR has returned quick decisions on the few occasions it was required. Yet today the English clowns needed 2 minutes to make a decision that was so clear Stevie Wonder would've got it. Embarrassing stuff yet again and these are the cream of the crop by all accounts  Next season will be ruined by the mini Matt Hancocks in Stockley Park.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 27, 2021)

Italian player called Immobile


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 27, 2021)




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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2021)

At the beginning of the tournament there were strong rumours of Everton going for Dumfries, the Dutch right back. Sadly for us he is having a cracking tournament and others are now likely to get involved. Already in this game he has made some fabulous runs, even popping up on the left wing at one point 😲.

He could be a lot of fun and a strong addition if the big boys stay away.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 27, 2021)

Didn't see this result coming. Was England's performance against the Czech's better than they were given credit for?


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## BiMGuy (Jun 27, 2021)

Get in there Czech Republic.


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## Beezerk (Jun 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Didn't see this result coming. Was England's performance against the Czech's better than they were given credit for?
		
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Dunno but what a shocker from Holland


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 27, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Dunno but what a shocker from Holland 

Click to expand...

Yep. Should've been 1-0 up and then immediately down to 10 men. That's how you expect England to go out of tournaments.


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## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2021)

Much as I love Toby and Jan, this has to be one of the slowest back threes I've ever seen. Ronaldo could have a field day.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 27, 2021)

Really looking forward to this match, just hope it delivers.🤞


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Much as I love Toby and Jan, this has to be one of the slowest back threes I've ever seen. Ronaldo could have a field day.
		
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Does he have the legs now to take advantage? Not sure he is that player anymore.


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## fundy (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does he have the legs now to take advantage? Not sure he is that player anymore.
		
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think Jota be the one fancying his pace against them


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## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does he have the legs now to take advantage? Not sure he is that player anymore.
		
Click to expand...

Ronaldo is definitely still quick, don't you worry about that. He doesn't age like normal, mortal men.



fundy said:



			think Jota be the one fancying his pace against them
		
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He's got in once already but made an absolute horlix of the shot.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			think Jota be the one fancying his pace against them
		
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Agreed. He'll have to finish better than that first horror snatch though 😱


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## fundy (Jun 27, 2021)

thought this set up to be a cracker, looks like it will be anything but based on the first 20 mins, both sides look scared to take any risks


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2021)

Can I give a nomination for worst commentator to the ITV guy. Not Lee Dixon, the commentator. So many cheesy lines, so many scripted lines. Oh for a Brian Moore or Barry Davies (yes, I know that ages me)


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## pauljames87 (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can I give a nomination for worst commentator to the ITV guy. Not Lee Dixon, the commentator. So many cheesy lines, so many scripted lines. Oh for a Brian Moore or Barry Davies (yes, I know that ages me)
		
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Free kick in Ronaldo territory .. (was his co who said I think) annoyed me .. even big Portugal and Ronaldo fans know his free kick record in past 5 years or so is pony.


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## fundy (Jun 27, 2021)

good hit from Hazard that, no not that one


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2021)

Patricio 😱. Good strike but a long way from the corner.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Patricio 😱. Good strike but a long way from the corner.
		
Click to expand...

Keeper has had a mare there. Decent strike, but it was a poor starting position, even before the small step to the right.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2021)




----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Really looking forward to this match, just hope it delivers.🤞
		
Click to expand...

I'm blaming you for this 😠.

Hugely disappointed in the game and also Belgium. I expected much more from them.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 27, 2021)

Prattaface builds him up again for a free kick 

Accept he is terrible at them


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm blaming you for this 😠.

Hugely disappointed in the game and also Belgium. I expected much more from them.
		
Click to expand...

KDB Going off hasn't helped. 

I really hope Portugal lose this. Horrible team.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Prattaface builds him up again for a free kick

Accept he is terrible at them
		
Click to expand...

Good to hear Ian Wright pointing out the myth at half time.


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (Jun 27, 2021)

I can't find the baseball thread.


----------



## Dando (Jun 27, 2021)

Pepe is still a….


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Good to hear Ian Wright pointing out the myth at half time.
		
Click to expand...

Like Messi and pens 

Get over your ego


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (Jun 27, 2021)

Still can't find the baseball thread.


----------



## fundy (Jun 27, 2021)

If you dont think the biggest **** in football is Portugese I disagree

If you know which it is then fair play to you


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm blaming you for this 😠.

Hugely disappointed in the game and also Belgium. I expected much more from them.
		
Click to expand...

Could be a busy last 10.😂😂


----------



## Dando (Jun 27, 2021)

How many times will the Portuguese
Players dive in the last 10 mins?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Could be a busy last 10.😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I'll be staggered if there isn't at least one red card.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 27, 2021)

Dando said:



			Pepe is still a….
		
Click to expand...

can we use more than one word.


----------



## Dando (Jun 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			can we use more than one word.
		
Click to expand...

Fill your boots mate


----------



## fundy (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll be staggered if there isn't at least one red card.
		
Click to expand...

was 10/1 with 10 mins to go sigh


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			was 10/1 with 10 mins to go sigh
		
Click to expand...

Well, I'm sat here staggered 😆. There was a hot 5 minutes when it seemed inevitable but then nothing. 

Good to see Portugal knocked out. Nothing to fear from Belgium on that showing. Oddly toothless without KdB.


----------



## fundy (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Well, I'm sat here staggered 😆. There was a hot 5 minutes when it seemed inevitable but then nothing. 

Good to see Portugal knocked out. Nothing to fear from Belgium on that showing. Oddly toothless without KdB.
		
Click to expand...

Im £20 lighter lol


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Well, I'm sat here staggered 😆. There was a hot 5 minutes when it seemed inevitable but then nothing.

Good to see Portugal knocked out. Nothing to fear from Belgium on that showing. Oddly toothless without KdB.
		
Click to expand...

Pepe should have got a straight red. Ref bottled it. 

Glad to see Portugal out. Belgium without KDB are nothing to worry about.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 27, 2021)

Belgium sitting deep to protect their ageing back three.
But have defended quite well.
But they have given up some chances and just havnt been punished.
Good second half though.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 27, 2021)

Dando said:



			Fill your boots mate
		
Click to expand...

someone might need to let fragger know, deffo infraction on the way if I start.


----------



## fundy (Jun 27, 2021)

Im definitely biased but Ian Wright head and shoulders above yet again


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Im £20 lighter lol 

Click to expand...

It's why I don't gamble. I'd have done the same at 10/1. Those were generous odds at the time.


----------



## fundy (Jun 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's why I don't gamble. I'd have done the same at 10/1. Those were generous odds at the time.
		
Click to expand...


its ok the o3.5 and 04.5 cards paid for it 

long term game not a short term one haha, especially when betting on referees!!!!!!


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2021)

What a poor game. Portugal have been hugely disappointing this tournament. I thought they had a really strong side, but Jota and Bruno Fernandes have been absolutely awful, and Bernardo Silva has been anonymous. Belgium were equally poor tonight but scored one lucky goal and that was enough. Was really hoping for a good game there as well. Two poor sides who rely on bits of magic from big players really.


----------



## harpo_72 (Jun 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What a poor game. Portugal have been hugely disappointing this tournament. I thought they had a really strong side, but Jota and Bruno Fernandes have been absolutely awful, and Bernardo Silva has been anonymous. Belgium were equally poor tonight but scored one lucky goal and that was enough. Was really hoping for a good game there as well. Two poor sides who rely on bits of magic from big players really.
		
Click to expand...

Well looks like Eden Hazard has ended his tournament and Debryne is doubtful now … going to be a bit of lacklustre side next game. 
Have to say the Dutch got found out today as well.. Italy didn’t look as convincing yesterday and really not much to say about Wales …


----------



## fundy (Jun 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What a poor game. Portugal have been hugely disappointing this tournament. I thought they had a really strong side, but Jota and Bruno Fernandes have been absolutely awful, and Bernardo Silva has been anonymous. Belgium were equally poor tonight but scored one lucky goal and that was enough. Was really hoping for a good game there as well. Two poor sides who rely on bits of magic from big players really.
		
Click to expand...


could be describing pretty much every so called big name side!


----------



## harpo_72 (Jun 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			could be describing pretty much every so called big name side!
		
Click to expand...

Let’s be honest, every tournament is hyped up, players are given the show reel treatment… but every match bar 50seconds is a bore fest … I love match of the day , gets the mix right and I can watch 7 games in the time it takes to complete one.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Im definitely biased but Ian Wright head and shoulders above yet again 

Click to expand...

Whilst not disagreeing with your comment, it's a low bar; the phrase "the least gammy leper in the colony" comes to mind.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Im definitely biased but Ian Wright head and shoulders above yet again 

Click to expand...

Is he not "our Robbie savage"?

Don't get me wrong. I think he's quality entertainment and loved him as a player, and to be fair spouts less rubbish than Savage usually does. But during intl footy theyre both massive cheerleaders


----------



## fundy (Jun 27, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Is he not "our Robbie savage"?

Don't get me wrong. I think he's quality entertainment and loved him as a player, and to be fair spouts less rubbish than Savage usually does. But during intl footy theyre both massive cheerleaders
		
Click to expand...


i rarely listen tbh, tonight we werent playing and he spoke a whole lot more sense than anyone else. 

albeit anyone else was keane, viera, dixon, matterface etc


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 28, 2021)

Well its all set up for England to bring football home - just the small matter of the Germans in the way! 

I firmly believe we can win tomorrow night, hard graft for 90 mins like the scottish did against us and our class should shine through. 

I'm not underestimating the Germans, but our team is stacked with top european talent, we can do this.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 28, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Well its all set up for England to bring football home - just the small matter of the Germans in the way!

I firmly believe we can win tomorrow night, hard graft for 90 mins like the scottish did against us and our class should shine through.

I'm not underestimating the Germans, but our team is stacked with top european talent, we can do this.
		
Click to expand...

It can go either way I think. But we need to do plenty more than we've done so far if we're going to win it.


----------



## larmen (Jun 28, 2021)

The knock out stages seem to be open for surprises. Netherlands are out, Belgium and Italy scraped through. Does anyone really comfortably wants to can England v. Germany?


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It can go either way I think. But we need to do plenty more than we've done so far if we're going to win it.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree, hence my comment about hard graft like the scottish. They came to play with everything they had against us, we MUST do the same to walk away from this game with the win.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 28, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Absolutely agree, hence my comment about hard graft like the scottish. They came to play with everything they had against us, we MUST do the same to walk away from this game with the win.
		
Click to expand...

If England have to do everything they possibly can to get past this Germany team then they’re very unlikely to win the Euros.


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 28, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			If England have to do everything they possibly can to get past this Germany team then they’re very unlikely to win the Euros.
		
Click to expand...

You just never know.... The Germans are hardly lacking talent. They have at least 4 champions league winners in their side - and I bet a fair few future winners too!


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 28, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			If England have to do everything they possibly can to get past this Germany team then they’re very unlikely to win the Euros.
		
Click to expand...

As the old cliché goes, you never write off the Germans! 

On paper they have a better keeper than us, slightly better defence, slightly better midfield but they are lacking in the forward department. It will be a tight game I'd expect.


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 28, 2021)

It appears to me that none of the big teams have really shone so far in the tournament...even France have showed some variation in their levels...Italy laboured to a win over Austria, the Dutch came unstuck against a Czech team that didn't really give any hints of their abilities in the group. Forgetting the Finland game for obvious reasons, perhaps only Denmark have shown any fire....a good first half showing before being ultimately beaten by Belgium followed by two thumping victories.

It seems to me like any side can beat anyone else and with England, Germany, Sweden, Ukraine, Czech Rep and Denmark on one half of the draw you could see any of them making the final. On the other side Belgium have just played a tough game against Portugal and now have to go again against Italy, with potentially France and Spain facing each other in the QF and then the winner of Belgium/Italy there are some heavyweight matchups on that side of the draw that could leave a side potentially depleted of energy....especially if games go to extra-time.

Difficult to call the rest of the tournament....wide open route to the final for England's half of the draw and most matches on the other side of the draw could easily be Finals in themselves.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 28, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You just never know.... The Germans are hardly lacking talent. They have at least 4 champions league winners in their side - and I bet a fair few future winners too!
		
Click to expand...

How many CL winners does England have?


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## Sats (Jun 28, 2021)

I believe that the future of England International side is growing but we're not champion material yet. We seem to lack that je ne sais quoi that would propel us into being real challengers for international glory. 

Saying that the German side also seem to be in the same boat as us - a team full of stars that together don't shine as bright as they should. I just pray and hope the game is entertaining and doesn't go to penalties.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			How many CL winners does England have?
		
Click to expand...

Four, I think. I believe Germany actually have ten Champion's League winners in their squad. But then, even Scotland have two so it might not be the best measure.


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Four, I think. I believe Germany actually have ten Champion's League winners in their squad. But then, even Scotland have two so it might not be the best measure. 

Click to expand...

Good test this without using google

English players not retired - CL winners

Current squad

Hendo
Chillwel
Mount
James

Injured/ not in atm

TAA
Gomez
Tammy Abraham
Hudson-Odoi

Old but Gold

Milner...

And im stuck...


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 28, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Good test this without using google

English players not retired from International football - CL winners

Current squad

Hendo
Chillwel
Mount
James

Injured/ not in atm

TAA
Gomez
Tammy Abraham
Hudson-Odoi

Old but Gold

Milner...

And im stuck...
		
Click to expand...

Sturridge and Bertrand. 

Edit: Oh and Cahill, if he hasn't quite retired yet.


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Sturridge and Bertrand. 

Edit: Oh and Cahill, if he hasn't quite retired yet.
		
Click to expand...

lallana!!!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2021)

Did the Ox get one for Liverpool?


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

thats some blunder from the Spanish keeper Simon


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2021)

Not the kindest ball to him but even so..........

Spain have already wasted two gilt edged chances. They can't continue to be so wasteful.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			thats some blunder from the Spanish keeper Simon 

Click to expand...

It is but we were always told never play a back pass between the posts.
Morratta should have put them ahead as bad a miss as the keeper.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2021)

This ref seems to be buying all the playacting from the players.
Most up to now have played on.


----------



## IainP (Jun 28, 2021)

Couldn't quite see as went off camera but for the Spain goal, was the scorer the same player spread-eagled on the ground trying it on for a free quick, before jumping up to re take part? Maybe a lesson there...


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2021)

Is there any role more pointless than the ref in the studio, Peter Walton? He gets used maybe once a game, states the blindingly obvious, in the dullest way possible, and then goes away. Fair play to him if he is getting paid for this.


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 28, 2021)

what a brilliant cross and finish!!!!!


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)

Another half hour then; or will something else happen?


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

Spain taken off their best 3 attacking players at 3-1 could be in a spot of trouble here


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			Spain taken off their best 3 attacking players at 3-1 could be in a spot of trouble here
		
Click to expand...

That young centre forward Azpilicueta is still on...


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)

Can Emma Hayes either do all the games or train the other co-commentators please?


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 28, 2021)

can Croatia come back from 2 down again?


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can Emma Hayes either do all the games or train the other co-commentators please?
		
Click to expand...


Been a breathe of fresh air even if she cant pronounce her mates name


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			Been a breathe of fresh air even if she cant pronounce her mates name 

Click to expand...

She should just call him Dave...


----------



## BrianM (Jun 28, 2021)

Spain could do with a Ramos at the back to bring a bit of experience and composure at the back.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Spain could do with a Ramos at the back to bring a bit of experience and composure at the back.
		
Click to expand...


converting one from French just before the tournament then changing his partner after 70 mins here not looking optimal is it


----------



## BrianM (Jun 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			converting one from French just before the tournament then changing his partner after 70 mins here not looking optimal is it
		
Click to expand...

Put it this way, I think France could really expose them at the back based on this performance, provided they beat the Swiss 😂😂


----------



## IainP (Jun 28, 2021)

Ha, watched Spain go 2 - 1 up and figured it was over so went out to the shop & chippy. Came back to find 5 - 3 !


----------



## IainP (Jun 28, 2021)

This tourney is bonkers. I'm not gonna watch tomorrow! 😲🥴


----------



## Crazyface (Jun 28, 2021)

Ladbrokes are doing really well out of me. I'm chasing losses now.....and that's not going well. What are France doing???????????????


----------



## Crazyface (Jun 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can Emma Hayes either do all the games or train the other co-commentators please?
		
Click to expand...


WHAT!? She's almost 100% wrong on everything. And very annoying. I had to turn the sound off. Not impressed


----------



## GreiginFife (Jun 28, 2021)

Crazyface said:



			Ladbrokes are doing really well out of me. I'm chasing losses now.....and that's not going well. What are France doing???????????????
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like its not Emma Hayes thats been 100% wrong on everything...


----------



## BrianM (Jun 28, 2021)

France look a mile off it tonight so far.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2021)

Has Mbappe done anything in this tournament?


----------



## IainP (Jun 28, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Has Mbappe done anything in this tournament?
		
Click to expand...

Made space for others?
Reckon there were 5 oppos swarming around him earlier


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)

Crazyface said:



			WHAT!? She's almost 100% wrong on everything. And very annoying. I had to turn the sound off. Not impressed
		
Click to expand...

Well no one's ever likely to accuse you of being misnamed.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2021)

Let's give praise to  Switzerland here. They are not just stifling France, they are playing well. France need to buck their ideas up.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)

Crazyface said:



			WHAT!? She's almost 100% wrong on everything. And very annoying. I had to turn the sound off. Not impressed
		
Click to expand...

I've forgotten how many times she repeated the same negative phrase about the Spanish centre halves


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I've forgotten how many times she repeated the same negative phrase about the Spanish centre halves 

Click to expand...

in a game where they conceded 3 times as massive favs


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)

Huge!


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)




----------



## srixon 1 (Jun 28, 2021)

I hope that penalty miss does not cost them.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2021)

Belting second half


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 28, 2021)

Game on


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:





Click to expand...

It wasn't that good.  And now it's bitten them on the bum.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It wasn't that good.  And now it's bitten them on the bum.
		
Click to expand...

Shocker, they should be cruising and now they're fecked.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 28, 2021)

He's 33 for crying out loud!!


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It wasn't that good. * And now it's bitten them on the bum*.
		
Click to expand...

And followed it up with a boot to the gonads.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 28, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Has Mbappe done anything in this tournament?
		
Click to expand...

2 assists tonight 😂


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 28, 2021)

The air shot by the Swiss and then the penalty miss… oh dear.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

how good have these last 16 games been so far


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			2 assists tonight 😂
		
Click to expand...

😬😂😂🤦‍♂️


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 28, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			The air shot by the Swiss and then the penalty miss… oh dear.
		
Click to expand...

Thought it was a last ditched touch from varane to take it away from him?


----------



## Piece (Jun 28, 2021)

You would have thought just twat the ball hard from the spot would have been the brief!


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)

Piece said:



			You would have thought just twat the ball hard from the spot would have been the brief!
		
Click to expand...

Ian Banks style.
Does anyone remember Ian Banks?  Best penalty taker I've ever seen.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2021)

Shaquiri is a decent penalty taker why not be a hero.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Ian Banks style.
Does anyone remember Ian Banks?  Best penalty taker I've ever seen.
		
Click to expand...


no Matt Le Tiss though was he


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			how good have these last 16 games been so far 

Click to expand...

I'm guessing we aren't counting the Belgium v Portugal game 🤔


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Ian Banks style.
Does anyone remember Ian Banks?  *Best penalty taker I've ever seen*.
		
Click to expand...

Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink for power, Graham Roberts for placement for me.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm guessing we aren't counting the Belgium v Portugal game 🤔
		
Click to expand...

it was great, we got to say bye bye to Pepe, Ronaldo, Bruno and their cheating screaming mates


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			no Matt Le Tiss though was he 

Click to expand...

I was behind the goal that game...penalty at 30 seconds


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			it was great, we got to say bye bye to Pepe, Ronaldo, Bruno and their cheating screaming mates 

Click to expand...

Well, I'd say it was a great post match game but the actual match was horrible. Your point, I agree with 👍


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Thought it was a last ditched touch from varane to take it away from him?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe it was, I didn’t see any replay of it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I was behind the goal that game...penalty at 30 seconds 






Click to expand...

I think julian Dicks was the best blaster of a penalty I can remember. Similar to your man there.


----------



## Piece (Jun 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			no Matt Le Tiss though was he 

Click to expand...

I think he only missed one in something like 49?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 28, 2021)

Well this game has been very interesting


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

Pogba scores a worldie, Xhaka gets booked  just another day lol


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2021)

You need to take your chances agains big teams Swis didn’t .
Think France were out if he scores.
3-2


----------



## Piece (Jun 28, 2021)

Hmmmm. Game on!


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 28, 2021)

Game on!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 28, 2021)

It couldn’t happen could it?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2021)

Can see the French scoring again if the Swiss push on.


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 28, 2021)

nearly!


----------



## IainP (Jun 28, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It couldn’t happen could it?

Click to expand...

If it did, I wouldn't fancy Switzerland on penalties 😉


----------



## BrianM (Jun 28, 2021)

Maybe Southgate has got it right for England with the amount of goals the other nations are conceding 😂


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 28, 2021)

there are some poor defences in this competition...goals leaking everywhere


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)




----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 28, 2021)

Just Wow


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 28, 2021)

ohhhh jeeeeesuss!!!! its happened!!!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2021)

Allez lez Suisse.

What a pass and finish


----------



## Piece (Jun 28, 2021)

😱😂😱😂😱🙈😱🙈😱


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)

Wtf are France playing at, not closing out the game at all.


----------



## srixon 1 (Jun 28, 2021)

Insane.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

pair of 3-3 draws  there will be worse days of football


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 28, 2021)

Concentrate on your football more than your dance moves


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2021)

Pogba good player that he is gets the ball taken off him far to easy far to often.
Great finish though.
What’s the CB doing there.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)

Jesus, nearly in!


----------



## nickjdavis (Jun 28, 2021)

The Swiss might make the chocolates but the French are definitely soft centred.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Allez lez Suisse.

What a pass and finish
		
Click to expand...

Yes what a ball you could build a team around a ball player like that.
Who does he play for


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

we all had the 3-3 double at 10,000/1 didnt we 🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## IainP (Jun 28, 2021)

Think that's 24 goals in the last 16 round, so far.
Who's thinking nil - nil after 120 minutes tomorrow?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes what a ball you could build a team around a ball player like that.
Who does he play for 

Click to expand...

Some u'23 team I believe 😆. Just gets splinters on a Saturday.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2021)

14 goals in the last 2 games and we haven’t finished them 😳


----------



## IanM (Jun 28, 2021)

Get in.

Had 20quid on France and poor odds.  Cashed out at 3-2 for a profit and just before took a tenner at 6-1 on the draw.

Spat out my tea when the guy his the bar at the end.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Wtf are France playing at, not closing out the game at all.
		
Click to expand...

I thought that’s why Slssoko came on to do.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Wtf are France playing at, not closing out the game at all.
		
Click to expand...

In the space of 10 minutes we saw the best and worst of Pogba, scores a worldly and gets robbed thinking he has all day in the middle of the park.


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 28, 2021)

This is why you set up a team to be hard to score against!


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2021)

Tea 😳
Hope it was a G and T


----------



## Piece (Jun 28, 2021)

Is this Xhaka's twin brother playing?


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)

Alles le Blanc!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 28, 2021)

Heart says Switzerland, heart says France.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

what was worse Xhakas hair or that free kick at the death lol


In fairness im probably his biggest critic, hes been superb tonight, for his sake (and price tag) lets hope he doesnt miss in a shootout again

#mbappe and pavard to score pens plse


----------



## Piece (Jun 28, 2021)

Omg!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 28, 2021)

Get in


----------



## Piece (Jun 28, 2021)

That's a coupon buster!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 28, 2021)

Bless my heart!😂😂


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Heart says Switzerland, heart says France.

Click to expand...

Make your mind up.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

chuffed for the Swiss, Mbops pen miss cost me a Draftkings comp tho


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2021)

Where were those penalty takers in normal time.
Well done the Swiss.
Imo they deserved it.
Great game!


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)

Was it on here that someone was saying Sommer wasn't worth his place in the team of the tournament?


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

another few £m on Granits price eh Jose


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 28, 2021)

Fantastic performance from the Swiss considering all their players are injured..............


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2021)

Mbappe who I had as top scorer has had a shocker.
Pogba showed in 10 minutes why he is worth 100 million and £100.

to come back from 3-1 is nothing short of brilliant esp having missed the chance to go 2 up.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 28, 2021)

What a game, here's hoping for a boring 1-0 England win tomorrow 😬


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

Right enough of this open attacking, we'll score more than you football, wont be having any of this 3-3 malarkey on Gareths watch


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			What a game, here's hoping for a boring 1-0 England win tomorrow 😬
		
Click to expand...

As daft as it seems the half that England are in is wide open.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Fantastic performance from the Swiss considering all their players are injured..............

View attachment 37283

Click to expand...


is it wrong to ask what the (C) stands for


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			Right enough of this open attacking, we'll score more than you football, wont be having any of this 3-3 malarkey on Gareths watch 

Click to expand...

I should think not with his 8-1-1 formation with Shaw up front😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			is it wrong to ask what the (C) stands for 

Click to expand...

Calamity 👍


----------



## Piece (Jun 28, 2021)

Come on Gareth, don't stuff this up. The door has opened wider!


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2021)

This is how you should watch Mbappes pen


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409632848382873602


----------



## larmen (Jun 28, 2021)

Why do we have an Argentinian referee at a European championship?
He is good, but it still seems weird.


----------



## IainP (Jun 28, 2021)

larmen said:



			Why do we have an Argentinian referee at a European championship?
He is good, but it still seems weird.
		
Click to expand...

They did a swap, a Spanish ref went to the Copa


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 28, 2021)




----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 29, 2021)

Shamelessly stolen from Twitter;

"Switzerland had an unfair advantage playing in front of a neutral crowd."


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

Tournament is really spicing up

Let's hope we don't ruin it later lol


----------



## BrianM (Jun 29, 2021)

England have a great chance to win this tournament now.
They shouldn't have anything to fear by what I've seen the last couple of weeks.
Southgate has to let the leashes go a bit and let the players play.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Was it on here that someone was saying Sommer wasn't worth his place in the team of the tournament? 

Click to expand...

Tell me about it - that's 8 goals conceded in 4 games for him now! Shocking.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Tournament is really spicing up

Let's hope we don't ruin it later lol
		
Click to expand...

The knockout games have been exciting, and the draw has opened right up for us to go all the way. So expect a disappointing 1-0 defeat later.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

There is genuinely no team to fear left in based on performances so far. I was worried about Italy and Belgium until they played their last games, no worries now. France looked untouchable for about 10 minutes last night but it was not enough and now they have gone. Saying that, all other countries will be saying exactly the same because no one will be losing sleep over England.

It is a great chance for every country remaining to win. The great fear for me is not losing tonight but losing in the manner we have played in the tournament so far. Now that would be criminal.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There is genuinely no team to fear left in based on performances so far. I was worried about Italy and Belgium until they played their last games, no worries now. France looked untouchable for about 10 minutes last night but it was not enough and now they have gone. Saying that, all other countries will be saying exactly the same because no one will be losing sleep over England.

It is a great chance for every country remaining to win. The great fear for me is not losing tonight but losing in the manner we have played in the tournament so far. Now that would be criminal.
		
Click to expand...

Or, as it’s Southgate, change nothing in the hope we scrape past the Germans and move on.
Don’t think he’ll win over many doubters if the game is full of attacking football and we lose 3-2 or 4-3 etc, all that will happen then is we’ll say, I told you so and I knew our defence/keeper are crap.


----------



## Don Barzini (Jun 29, 2021)

Negative performance from England. Holding on to 0-0 by 70 minutes. Germans score at least one late winner.

(And I obviously hope I'm spectacularly wrong!)


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Or, as it’s Southgate, change nothing in the hope we scrape past the Germans and move on.
Don’t think he’ll win over many doubters if the game is full of attacking football and we lose 3-2 or 4-3 etc, all that will happen then is we’ll say, I told you so and I knew our defence/keeper are crap.
		
Click to expand...

He is a pragmatic coach and doesn't care about performance. I get that. I'd hate to see us go out without having given it a proper go though. I'm sure you are right, I doubt we will change how we play and 1-0 will be his target.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is a pragmatic coach and doesn't care about performance. I get that. I'd hate to see us go out without having given it a proper go though. I'm sure you are right, I doubt we will change how we play and 1-0 will be his target.
		
Click to expand...

2-0 would do me.. just score more goals


----------



## Junior (Jun 29, 2021)

No one is talking about Italy?  Sure they win ugly sometimes but they know how to get it done.  Unbeaten in 30 matches (France 2018 was the last time they were beaten)  is some record.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

Junior said:



			No one is talking about Italy?  Sure they win ugly sometimes but they know how to get it done.  Unbeaten in 30 matches (France 2018 was the last time they were beaten)  is some record.
		
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people were talking about them in the group stage. They were awful in the knockout game though and that has stopped the chatter. Once the memory of that has gone then we will be back looking at them again. As you say, their record is excellent. I'm really looking forward to their game v Spain.


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

The games and results of the last few days are exactly the reasons England won't play the all out attack some people believe we should. 

Southgate has even given his reasons why. 

Either way it doesn't matter. People will moan if we win. People will moan if we lose. People will moan if we are too defensive. People will moan if we are too attacking. 

People will moan if we win the bloody tournament.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

My prediction is he goes to the back five, to counter Germany's wing backs who caused Portugal all sorts of problems. I reckon it'll be:

Pickers
Walker - Stones - Maguire
Trips - Hendo - Rice - Shaw
Foden/Mount
Sterling - Kane​
Logic suggests Mount shouldn't play after not training with the team, but he's very much Southgate's favourite so he may throw him in regardless. If not then Foden, who should be fresh having not played the last game. I don't think we'll keep another clean sheet, I reckon it'll be 1-1 after 90 mins, but we'll get another goal in extra time as we have far superior attacking options on the bench than they do.


----------



## Rooter (Jun 29, 2021)

I'll take a 1-0 all day long! Almost had a coronary last night and I was a neutral! (Well, A token swiss for the night!)


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			The games and results of the last few days are exactly the reasons England won't play the all out attack some people believe we should.

Southgate has even given his reasons why.

Either way it doesn't matter. People will moan if we win. People will moan if we lose. People will moan if we are too defensive. People will moan if we are too attacking.

People will moan if we win the bloody tournament.
		
Click to expand...

Ultimately if we win then Southgate is a hero. If we lose, playing as we are, then he will get mullered. Playing this way doesn't give you any credit in the bank, ask Jose . It is particularly the case when on paper our strength is going forward. Southgate knows the score but it is how he sets up.


----------



## IanM (Jun 29, 2021)

I predict much stress and much peeking from behind the sofa


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jun 29, 2021)

It won’t matter who we put out, if we continue to play the pedestrian football that is our default we won’t win
Im not expecting a change or progress for us tonight.


----------



## Junior (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think a lot of people were talking about them in the group stage. They were awful in the knockout game though and that has stopped the chatter. Once the memory of that has gone then we will be back looking at them again. As you say, their record is excellent. I'm really looking forward to their game v Spain.
		
Click to expand...

Teams that win tournaments often start slow and then peak in the knockouts.  I fancy them before us and Germany.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

Junior said:



			Teams that win tournaments often start slow and then peak in the knockouts.  I fancy them before us and Germany.
		
Click to expand...

Are Italy not doing the reverse though?

I agree with your last point


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

Junior said:



			Teams that win tournaments often start slow and then peak in the knockouts.  I fancy them before us and Germany.
		
Click to expand...

But is that the Italian blood in you?


----------



## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			My prediction is he goes to the back five, to counter Germany's wing backs who caused Portugal all sorts of problems. I reckon it'll be:

Pickers
Walker - Stones - Maguire
Trips - Hendo - Rice - Shaw
Foden/Mount
Sterling - Kane​
Logic suggests Mount shouldn't play after not training with the team, but he's very much Southgate's favourite so he may throw him in regardless. If not then Foden, who should be fresh having not played the last game. I don't think we'll keep another clean sheet, I reckon it'll be 1-1 after 90 mins, but we'll get another goal in extra time as we have far superior attacking options on the bench than they do.
		
Click to expand...

Consider the subs as well…not sure he has used the full quota yet. But last nights game was very much influenced by them


----------



## Billysboots (Jun 29, 2021)

This is perhaps best posted in the “Random Irritations” thread, but I’m kicking myself for going to bed with France home and dry at 3-1 up…………


----------



## SteveW86 (Jun 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			This is perhaps best posted in the “Random Irritations” thread, but I’m kicking myself for going to bed with France home and dry at 3-1 up…………
		
Click to expand...

Did you not learn from the 5pm kick off?


----------



## Piece (Jun 29, 2021)

After yesterday goal fest, it’s going to be two 0-0s isn’t it!?


----------



## sweaty sock (Jun 29, 2021)

I reckon tonights an important acid test, winning teams always start slow (as England have) and pick up form from the start of the KOs.  A slight improvement should see you past Germany without issue.  A group stage standard performance will mean a tough match ahead.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jun 29, 2021)

England will win tonight no problem 
Cavendish will win the sprint today
And my son will run a PB in his 800
Ah don’t you just love sport.


----------



## Piece (Jun 29, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			England will win tonight no problem
Cavendish will win the sprint today
And my son will run a PB in his 800
Ah don’t you just love sport.
		
Click to expand...

Agree, England should beat Sri Lanka 😜


----------



## stefanovic (Jun 29, 2021)

Southgate is a winner.
On the back of that penalty miss in 96 he made a fortune in advertising.






Excuse me while I pewk.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			This is perhaps best posted in the “Random Irritations” thread, but I’m kicking myself for going to bed with France home and dry at 3-1 up…………
		
Click to expand...




SteveW86 said:



			Did you not learn from the 5pm kick off?
		
Click to expand...

Clearly not.


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 29, 2021)

FOOTBALLS COMING HOME


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

Veirra new palace manager? Interesting


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Veirra new palace manager? Interesting
		
Click to expand...

Strange one that. I'm not sure he's had a great managerial career yet, and on the ITV coverage I can barely understand what he's saying at times. Huge gamble from them. With their and their squad's contract issues I might have an early punt on them getting relegated. (Feel free to bookmark this for when they qualify for Europa.)


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			This is perhaps best posted in the “Random Irritations” thread, but I’m kicking myself for going to bed with France home and dry at 3-1 up…………
		
Click to expand...

That all depends why you went to bed!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Veirra new palace manager? Interesting
		
Click to expand...

He is going in at a very tough time. He might have been better sitting this job out and waiting for the next one along.

Perhaps his contacts at City will enable a few loans to plug the gaps in the squad.


----------



## Golfmmad (Jun 29, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			England will win tonight no problem 
Cavendish will win the sprint today
And my son will run a PB in his 800
Ah don’t you just love sport.
		
Click to expand...

What's his PB so far Tony?


----------



## Rooter (Jun 29, 2021)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Got sent this 😂😂 <a href="https://t.co/mNZ5u6jXRZ">pic.twitter.com/mNZ5u6jXRZ</a></p>&mdash; Scott Roots (@scottroots) <a href="



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409884058813861892">June 29, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


----------



## Piece (Jun 29, 2021)

No real surprise in the England line-up.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 29, 2021)

What an awful line up.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

Think we will win 2-0 
Just hope the boys play well.


----------



## Piece (Jun 29, 2021)

No Gnabry for Germany. That's a result. Werner's in....he won't, will he?


----------



## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

Piece said:



			No Gnabry for Germany. That's a result. Werner's in....he won't, will he?
		
Click to expand...

He has been offside all season … tonight he will be allowed to score from an offside position


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

A Seven man defence!!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A Seven man defence!!

Click to expand...

I think this is team I posted would suit a 5 at back altho I had saka at lwb and grealish in


----------



## larmen (Jun 29, 2021)

Piece said:



			No Gnabry for Germany. That's a result. Werner's in....he won't, will he?
		
Click to expand...

Strong and heading over fast and quirly. Goosens and Kimmich to fill the box with passes?


----------



## pokerjoke (Jun 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A Seven man defence!!

Click to expand...

Southgate just can’t get himself to open up.
Sets up so negative.
Although I suspect enough to beat Germany with plenty of options if it starts to go boobs up


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Other than Shaw. I like that lineup.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Other than Shaw. I like that lineup.
		
Click to expand...

It's near enough what I predicted, except Saka has kept his place, and I thought maybe Hendo would be back in but he's resisted. Makes perfect sense to use this formation against theirs and go man for man with the wing backs I think. Fair play for letting Saka keep his place as well after he looked lively.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Southgate just can’t get himself to open up.
Sets up so negative.
Although I suspect enough to beat Germany with plenty of options if it starts to go boobs up
		
Click to expand...

Certainly looking to get a goal and shut up shop, I’d like to see 1 more attacking option up front, Philip’s distribution is really impressive imo, just don’t think he’s going to have the options ahead of him, so it ends up with both midfielders sitting back.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 29, 2021)

6 current Champions League winners across the 2 squads; Loew plays his 3, Southgate benches 2 of his & drops the third.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2021)

Well I’ve backed 0-0 & under 50 booking points.
Stones to score a header.
Not expecting a good game 😒


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Well I’ve backed 0-0 & under 50 booking points.
Stones to score a header.
Not expecting a good game 😒
		
Click to expand...

I don't want a good game. I want a boring win.


----------



## larmen (Jun 29, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Well I’ve backed 0-0 & under 50 booking points.
Stones to score a header.
Not expecting a good game 😒
		
Click to expand...

That’s not a great accumulator, is it? ;-)


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A Seven man defence!!

Click to expand...

DCL not even on the bench 😠. He must be full of hell, I am on his behalf.


----------



## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

Massive build up … never seen so many replays of the same goal so much ..


----------



## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

Side bet … how many times will the German manager pick his nose ?? He loves a good root about up there


----------



## Reemul (Jun 29, 2021)

If we concede first we are buggered. The man would win nothing managing Man City either. He is as adventurous and exciting as a puddle of water.


----------



## Captainron (Jun 29, 2021)

Anyone watching Wimbeldon??


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Anyone watching Wimbeldon??

Click to expand...

who they playing?


----------



## larmen (Jun 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			who they playing? 

Click to expand...

The way it rains here my guess is Cliff Richard


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

That was not even a foul.
If anything it was the German who committed the foul by tripping up our player.


----------



## IanM (Jun 29, 2021)

Blimey.  What a poor start


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 29, 2021)

Is there a match on?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Jun 29, 2021)

Same old. Too frightened of making a mistake. Always the easiest pass.


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

For all the Eng criticism Germany are no better, serious lack of quality from both sides so far

Too many chelsea players and not enough Arsenal ones on the pitch clearly


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Better


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2021)

Saka looks well up for this.


----------



## paddyc (Jun 29, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Anyone watching Wimbeldon??

Click to expand...

Just the Scottish lads!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Is there a match on?
		
Click to expand...

It's called the knockout phase. Not something you would have come across before 😆

It's a shame Harry Kane wasn't available for this tournament 🙄


----------



## IanM (Jun 29, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Is there a match on?
		
Click to expand...

You would be unaware of this concept


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

I've just realised Kane is playing!  
They just have to utilise his ability a bit more.


----------



## Captainron (Jun 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			I've just realised Kane is playing!  

Click to expand...

Is he? Really? He must be invisible


----------



## paddyc (Jun 29, 2021)

Seems to be very little  support for the front 3 when we do get in good  positions 
.
front 3 and  7 at the back


----------



## paddyc (Jun 29, 2021)

Germans managing to pick holes in a  7 man defence  a bit worrying


----------



## IanM (Jun 29, 2021)

Has Kane gone on holiday?


----------



## paddyc (Jun 29, 2021)

IanM said:



			Has Kane gone on holiday?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah for the last two weeks


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

This German team are there for the taking if we dare to go for it. Dare we? Gareth?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2021)

Get Kane off for Henderson 😊


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This German team are there for the taking if we dare to go for it. Dare we? Gareth?
		
Click to expand...

Couldn’t agree more.
Get Rice off for Foden and go at em.


----------



## Captainron (Jun 29, 2021)

Donkey!! Absolute donkey


----------



## Dando (Jun 29, 2021)

I thought Kane was the best striker in world 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## IainP (Jun 29, 2021)

They seemed to suss Saka after 20 mins. Has Shaw passed forward yet?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's called the knockout phase. Not something you would have come across before 😆

It's a shame Harry Kane wasn't available for this tournament 🙄
		
Click to expand...

He just dosnt look fit ,half arsed challenges to win the ball. He should not come out second half.
Good job Werner can’t finish.
Walker just dosnt see the runners ,backwards all the time.
Mount needs to be on here. Put Sterling in the middle.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jun 29, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Is he? Really? He must be invisible
		
Click to expand...

Nah, we've stuck a statue of him out there.


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

IainP said:



			They seemed to suss Saka after 20 mins. *Has Shaw passed forward yet?*

Click to expand...

Yes.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jun 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He just dosnt look fit ,half arsed challenges to win the ball. He should not come out second half.
Good job Werner can’t finish.
Walker just dosnt see the runners ,backwards all the time.
Mount needs to be on here. Put Sterling in the middle.
		
Click to expand...

Or Sancho


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 29, 2021)

We need to sack Southgate at half time and get Beckham (or Ed Sheehan) to do the half time team talk, Then let the players get on with it. Southgate’s negative tactics are killing us… and not helping with my Tourette’s!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He just dosnt look fit ,half arsed challenges to win the ball. He should not come out second half.
Good job Werner can’t finish.
Walker just dosnt see the runners ,backwards all the time.
Mount needs to be on here. Put Sterling in the middle.
		
Click to expand...

It's okay, we can bring on Calvert Lewin. Our back up striker, highest PL scorer behind Kane last year. Oh no, oops, we can't. Perhaps one of the 2 keepers on the bench can score a goal 🙄


----------



## Piece (Jun 29, 2021)

We need footballers in the centre of the pitch.

Instead, they are on the bench.

Nasty feeling we will be burgled on the break, with Werner scoring. 🤐


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

Erling Haaland  @ErlingHaaland
6m
Time to bring on Sancho...


----------



## paddyc (Jun 29, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			We need to sack Southgate at half time and get Beckham (or Ed Sheehan) to do the half time team talk, Then let the players get on with it. Southgate’s negative tactics are killing us… and not helping with my Tourette’s!
		
Click to expand...

 Your avin  a #%$^&^% laugh you #^&$ ffs


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's okay, we can bring on Calvert Lewin. Our back up striker, highest PL scorer behind Kane last year. Oh no, oops, we can't. Perhaps one of the 2 keepers on the bench can score a goal 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Stupid decision as the Germans are crap in the air.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jun 29, 2021)

We can’t leave Rice and Phillips on one will get sent off


----------



## SteveW86 (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's okay, we can bring on Calvert Lewin. Our back up striker, highest PL scorer behind Kane last year. Oh no, oops, we can't. Perhaps one of the 2 keepers on the bench can score a goal 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Rules state you must have 2 keepers on the bench


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 29, 2021)

Kane is having a shocking tournament. Not even grafting and making a nuisance of himself.

Shaw isn't ann attacking WB - just not quick or attack-minded enough.

Get Kane off and bench him until next season!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			We can’t leave Rice and Phillips on one will get sent off
		
Click to expand...

Take both off 
Put Hendo in front of the back four and Mount in the no10 roll.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Jun 29, 2021)

IainP said:



			They seemed to suss Saka after 20 mins. Has Shaw passed forward yet?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, he had a pee at half time.!


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

I think England are doing very well for a team with just 10 players.
Thank goodness for Pickford, too!


----------



## Captainron (Jun 29, 2021)

@Orikoru your free round at Woodhall is not looking great.

The donkey looks like he needs to be sent to the sanctuary unless something happens quickly


----------



## Captainron (Jun 29, 2021)

Decision to bin him looks to have been taken care of

Scrap that. Still some more opportunities to waste yet


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

Get him off and get Rashford, Sancho or Grealish on.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Rules state you must have 2 keepers on the bench
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough  (stupid rule though. 1 yes, 2?) 

Still stupid that he doesn't have DCL as an option.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Take both off
Put Hendo in front of the back four and Mount in the no10 roll.
		
Click to expand...

He needs to make changes with them both on yellows….. Pace and moving the ball quickly is what'll unlock this German team, dithering around passing sideways is meat and drink to them - They'll take penalties, we cannot afford too.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Take both off
Put Hendo in front of the back four and Mount in the no10 roll.
		
Click to expand...

I’d save Hendo until late on when we need someone to come on and clap a lot.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 29, 2021)

Ooh - injury....not Rashford though.


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fair enough  (stupid rule though. 1 yes, 2?) 

Still stupid that he doesn't have DCL as an option.
		
Click to expand...

its to do with the original 23 man squad and having 3 keepers and all subs on bench, they increased the squad by 3 for covid but not on the subs bench


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

Sterling continues to go down blind alleys ..................................... why?
Lack of confidence in his team mates, just selfish or can't see the bigger picture?


----------



## Dando (Jun 29, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Donkey!! Absolute donkey
		
Click to expand...

Bring back Heskey!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Ooh - injury....not Rashford though.
		
Click to expand...

Please not Rashford


----------



## Captainron (Jun 29, 2021)

All Southgate needs to do is go over and take Kane out of Hummels pocket and sub him


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Sterling continues to go down blind alleys ..................................... why?
Lack of confidence in his team mates, just selfish or can't see the bigger picture?
		
Click to expand...


my as well as well move him central and bring grealish on for kane


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

Southgate! Do something you biff, change the team.


----------



## SteveW86 (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fair enough  (stupid rule though. 1 yes, 2?)

Still stupid that he doesn't have DCL as an option.
		
Click to expand...

I agree


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Southgate! Do something you biff, change the team.

Click to expand...

Needs to show some balls now & go for it.
Germany look bang average.


----------



## BrianM (Jun 29, 2021)

If England go onto lose this game, it will be a massive opportunity missed, Germany aren’t that great.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 29, 2021)

Can’t complain, Saka had run out of steam. C’mon Grealish!


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

BrianM said:



			If England go onto lose this game, it will be a massive opportunity missed, Germany aren’t that great.
		
Click to expand...

No doubt German spectators are thinking the same about their team, knowing England aren't that great..


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Can’t complain, Saka had run out of steam. C’mon Grealish!
		
Click to expand...


at least he had some steam, rather he took off one who had none from the start


----------



## GreiginFife (Jun 29, 2021)

Whoever scores next wins it. This is dire to watch with little quality but feel that a single goal will nick it.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			at least he had some steam, rather he took off one who had none from the start
		
Click to expand...

The “Talisman”? No chance.


----------



## Jimaroid (Jun 29, 2021)

Whatever this is, it isn’t worldclass.


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

Shaw passed forward then!


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)




----------



## IainP (Jun 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Yes.
		
Click to expand...

He has now 😁👍


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

hallelujah

now get some more defenders on gareth


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

Got to give it to Sterling he has proved me wrong.
Our best up front by a mile.
Take Kane off now for a more mobile player.


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

one massive bullet dodged there! boy theyve been awful!


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

Ooooh, what a let off!


----------



## Captainron (Jun 29, 2021)

Was that Kane in a Germany shirt?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

Muller has just done an England 😳


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Was that Kane in a Germany shirt?
		
Click to expand...

No, he'd never have got to the ball first!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

We’re winning and shouldn’t get caught like that.
Muller is not quick.


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Muller has just done an England 😳
		
Click to expand...

Meaning?


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			We’re winning and shouldn’t get caught like that.
Muller is not quick.
		
Click to expand...


3rd time theyve been clean through down the middle, thankfully not taken any of them


----------



## GreiginFife (Jun 29, 2021)

This now has to be England's best chance to win a Euros. Germany out, Netherlands out, France and Portugal gone. Italy peaked too soon, Spain just... well, Spain and Czechs and Swiss just used up all their luck.


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			This now has to be England's best chance to win a Euros. Germany out, Netherlands out, France and Portugal gone. Italy peaked too soon, Spain just... well, Spain and Czechs and Swiss just used up all their luck.
		
Click to expand...


10 mins+ too early for that lol


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 29, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Whatever this is, it isn’t worldclass.
		
Click to expand...

It’s a world class Chin.


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			This now has to be England's best chance to win a Euros.* Germany out*, Netherlands out, France and Portugal gone. Italy peaked too soon, Spain just... well, Spain and Czechs and Swiss just used up all their luck.
		
Click to expand...

Not on my telly!
Are you a time traveller?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 29, 2021)

Kane


----------



## Captainron (Jun 29, 2021)

Finally. The donkey scores! Only 2 more for a freebie


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

Brilliant from Grealish  Get in


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Was that Kane in a Germany shirt?
		
Click to expand...

You were saying?


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 29, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			It’s a world class Chin.
		
Click to expand...

God bless it!😂😂😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Meaning?
		
Click to expand...

He missed the sort of chance, agonising, that England have traditionally missed in tournaments to go out.


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

Oh, another forward pass by Shaw!


----------



## Captainron (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			You were saying?
		
Click to expand...

He’s still a donkey


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He’s still a donkey
		
Click to expand...

Just a world class one


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## arnieboy (Jun 29, 2021)

He's no donkey, they'll all be cheering his name tomorrow.


----------



## GreiginFife (Jun 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Not on my telly!
Are you a time traveller?
		
Click to expand...

I stand by my next one to score wins it. 

And then was confirmed. Germany have had no presence in the game to come back from one, let alone two. 

So, out.


----------



## Piece (Jun 29, 2021)

That Donkey is first on my teamsheet 🤣


----------



## Captainron (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Just a world class one
		
Click to expand...

No. All the CF’s in the world would have got there. 

He’s been shocking. Maybe that will wake the muppet up a bit


----------



## JamesR (Jun 29, 2021)

Kane has been poor, no one can deny that. But, like all good CFs should he takes a rare chance.


----------



## Imurg (Jun 29, 2021)

So..It's going to Rome.. It's going... Football's going to Rome ...


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jun 29, 2021)

Germany, you’re going home 👍😎😎😎🤭


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

*BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM !!*


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

Great result , lets see who we play now 

Bye bye to one of the worst Germany sides for a long while


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Southgate once again gets it spot on.


----------



## IanM (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Southgate once again gets it spot on.
		
Click to expand...

Not bad for a clueless berk!


----------



## Piece (Jun 29, 2021)

Where were the Germans?
Frankly, who cares!?
🤣🤣🤣


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

IanM said:



			Not bad for a clueless berk!
		
Click to expand...

Me or Southgate? 😂


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

I wonder how all the nay sayers feel tonight.
Come On England!

I thought Maguire was immense, I'm just glad Southgate took him.
Pickford was also superb.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 29, 2021)

I predicted 2 - 0 

Germany to win . Glad I'm a Palace fan and know nothing about football


----------



## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

I think we are looking through rose tinted glasses here. Sterling creates then almost let’s Muller in. 
But Pickford was good, Kane was slow and lethargic.. thank goodness Grealish hit him with the ball 🤣


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 29, 2021)

Oh my word - didn't realise how much I wanted that until we got it...

So excited - so excited - it's coming home...or at least they're going home!!


----------



## Jimaroid (Jun 29, 2021)

Awful match but a win’s a win.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 29, 2021)

The joy in the crowd - it just warms my heart.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Southgate once again gets it spot on.
		
Click to expand...

You might need surgery to have your tongue removed from your cheek there 😆


----------



## larmen (Jun 29, 2021)

That should last England the next 55 years ;-)

Anybody worried about all the cramping going on from 70/75 minutes onwards? I don’t remember that much from previous tournaments and with nutrition being so much better than previously, should£not that be avoided.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2021)

All credit to Hendo 🙌


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

Tactical masterclass from Southgate.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 29, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409933737542963207


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

The only thing I'd criticise Southgate for is picking Kane ................................ but he did actually score!
So, what do I know?


----------



## IanM (Jun 29, 2021)

chrisd said:



			I predicted 2 - 0 

Germany to win . Glad I'm a Palace fan and know nothing about football
		
Click to expand...

But at least you're red & blue!!


----------



## GreiginFife (Jun 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			The only thing I'd criticise Southgate for is picking Kane ................................ but he did actually score!
So, what do I know?
		
Click to expand...

If any of us knew half as much as we think we do, we wouldn't be posting on a golf forum...


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You might need surgery to have your tongue removed from your cheek there 😆
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. 

Perfect team selection and tactics.

Another clean sheet and into the next round.


----------



## paddyc (Jun 29, 2021)

In Gareth  we trust 🤣


----------



## garyinderry (Jun 29, 2021)

Think credit has to go to Walker for getting back or mullar would have walked the ball into the net. Stones was running back in treacle.


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Absolutely not. 

Perfect team selection and tactics.

Another clean sheet and into the next round.
		
Click to expand...


do you think we defended well?


----------



## Golfmmad (Jun 29, 2021)

Can't believe some of the critical views on England and Southgate.
England were brilliant, we beat a decent German side and can't expect teams to lie down and let us win. 
They had 3 clear cut chances, two of which Pickford made world class saves from. 
Gareth Southgates tactics have been spot on and you have to give him credit for that.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			Can't believe some of the critical views on England and Southgate.
England were brilliant, we beat a decent German side and can't expect teams to lie down and let us win.
They had 3 clear cut chances, two of which Pickford made world class saves from.
Gareth Southgates tactics have been spot on and you have to give him credit for that.
		
Click to expand...

Rio hit nail on the head 

He isn't giving into pressure to bring in others 

He picking teams to match the oppo


----------



## davidy233 (Jun 29, 2021)

Only saw the second half - there's been lots of folk on here who know very little about football in recent weeks.

Thought England played pretty well during the 45 minutes I saw, certainly better than Germany, but there was nothing exciting about the game until Sterling scored. After that they controlled it.

Declan Rice ran that midfield at times, Sterling is the guy who could win you this tournament.


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			do you think we defended well?
		
Click to expand...

Yes. There were a couple of moments Germany created chances, which will always happen playing decen teams. But for most of the game we were solid, and Pickford cleaned up when needed.


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			Can't believe some of the critical views on England and Southgate.
England were brilliant, we beat a decent German side and can't expect teams to lie down and let us win.
They had 3 clear cut chances, two of which Pickford made world class saves from.
*Gareth Southgates tactics have been spot on and you have to give him credit for that*.
		
Click to expand...

Some people just won't, it wouldn't suit their agendas.
They like to moan just for the sake of it and are never happy unless they're unhappy.
God forbid they should ever give Southgate any credit ........................ yet how can anyone do otherwise?
I just don't get it.


----------



## BrianM (Jun 29, 2021)

Sterling was brilliant for England tonight, not sure why he gets such a hard time…
England’s to lose now with two more matches at home.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			Can't believe some of the critical views on England and Southgate.
England were brilliant, we beat a decent German side and can't expect teams to lie down and let us win.
They had 3 clear cut chances, two of which Pickford made world class saves from.
Gareth Southgates tactics have been spot on and you have to give him credit for that.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but that’s a poor German side


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 29, 2021)

Sterling and Walker performing really well - not often I say that! Thought Walker looked very assured as part of a back three and agree his pace to get close enough to Muller was enough to put him off. He deserved to miss for his creepy wink to camera during the anthem!


----------



## Hobbit (Jun 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			do you think we defended well?
		
Click to expand...

Football isn’t a game of perfect.

Every team will have opportunities, no matter how well the defence performs. In terms of a boxing match, England were winning on points and then scored 2 goals. I thought it was England’s best performance.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 29, 2021)

German guy opposite took his flag down within 5 minutes of the whistle 

Same time as I put our St George Cross Flag out. It's not brought us luck over the years so decided to keep it under wraps this time. It will be back in hiding before Saturday's game!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Some people just won't, it wouldn't suit their agendas.
They like to moan just for the sake of it and are never happy unless they're unhappy.
God forbid they should ever give Southgate any credit ........................ yet how can anyone do otherwise?
I just don't get it.
		
Click to expand...

Because it’s possible to support the team while disliking the manager.

Yes he’s done well and deserves credit for it, but I don’t see the issue with questioning his selections and line ups!

I’m sure you’ve seen the issues at Club level and managers.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 29, 2021)

Lets face it, most of us would struggle to run a bath let alone an England football team -  Southgate's not doing too bad!


----------



## Golfmmad (Jun 29, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sorry but that’s a poor German side
		
Click to expand...

Really? It may not have been Germany of old but they never put a "Poor" side out.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			Really? It may not have been Germany of old but they never put a "Poor" side out.
		
Click to expand...

That side looks bang average to me.
Not sure what’s happened to Sane,he looked too draw at City,must have a bad attitude.


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			Really? It may not have been Germany of old but they never put a "Poor" side out.
		
Click to expand...

But they had more champions league winners in their team than England. So must have been a better side. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Football isn’t a game of perfect.

Every team will have opportunities, no matter how well the defence performs. In terms of a boxing match, England were winning on points and then scored 2 goals. I thought it was England’s best performance.
		
Click to expand...


haha i watch not defending well week in week out  dont disagree with your post just dont think we defended that well, considering we had 3 centre halves and Rice and Phillips in front the Germans went clean through the middle 3 times

results orientated thinking that a clean sheet = defending well

Pickford was outstanding


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 29, 2021)

My throat is so sore yet still find myself jigging around the house like a crafty cockney singing "it's coming home"...

Dogs think I've finally lost it!


----------



## paddyc (Jun 29, 2021)

There was certainly  a lot of raised eyebrows  with the team  selection but credit to Southgate for how the team managed  the game. If we had gone gung ho we probably  would  have got beat. I'd rather play this way and progress.
I thought everyone  played well with the exception  of Kane. Hopefully  the goal will give him some confidence for Saturday .


----------



## IanM (Jun 29, 2021)

They need to sack Southgate.... should be beating teams like Germany by at least 5 or 6.

There you go.  I saved some wombat the trouble


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

would love to see Isak at Arsenal next season, sadly the only likelihood is if he turns up for the away team lol


----------



## IainP (Jun 29, 2021)

Do we (England fans) care who wins this one?
Is the ideal result team X wins but picks up hat full of cards?


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

IainP said:



			Do we (England fans) care who wins this one?
Is the ideal result team X wins but picks up hat full of cards?
		
Click to expand...


id much rather we play ukraine than sweden


----------



## GB72 (Jun 29, 2021)

IainP said:



			Do we (England fans) care who wins this one?
Is the ideal result team X wins but picks up hat full of cards?
		
Click to expand...

Guess whichever team will have more difficulty getting fans to Rome as would guess ours will not be allowed


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

Unfortunately for Southgate he was never seen as an exciting manager and his selection divided opinion, some saw it as the FA playing safe after the Allardyce debacle.

I thought he did brilliant getting us to the World Cup semi final, but every excuse came out about us having an easy route, losing the first time we faced quality opposition etc etc.

Even qualifying for this tournament we had an easy group and then another easy group at the tournament, this criticism, imo, is unfair as you can only beat the teams you are drawn against.

His style of football is not to my liking, some of his player selections I disagree with, but he has a plan and he sticks to it.

Ultimately he will be judged on results and as someone else said he’s in a no win situation.

So yes I dislike the manager, but I would never ever want to see my Country get beat at any sport just because I don’t like the person in charge.


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			id much rather we play ukraine than sweden
		
Click to expand...


might get my wish


----------



## IainP (Jun 29, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Guess whichever team will have more difficulty getting fans to Rome as would guess ours will not be allowed
		
Click to expand...

Good point.
The stadium atmosphere seems so poor after what we witnessed earlier.


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

Just noticed a particular poster has not been around today, have I missed something?


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 29, 2021)




----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

good game this, 1-1 both sides hit the post already in the second half


----------



## toyboy54 (Jun 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Just noticed a particular poster has not been around today, have I missed something?
		
Click to expand...

Name and shame plz!
O.K.-I'm jealous that you're still there but have counted circa 17 references to 66/'who do we want after Sweden or Ukraine?? etc,etc,etc-fingers down the throat stuff
ARGGHH!!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Just noticed a particular poster has not been around today, have I missed something?
		
Click to expand...

The forum has been very nice since somebody stopped pointing out how unpleasant it was becoming


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Could do with this game becoming an end to end slog with extra time and pens.


----------



## IainP (Jun 29, 2021)

Woodwork has been busy at both ends!


----------



## davidy233 (Jun 29, 2021)

This Ukraine v Sweden game is pretty decent


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

IainP said:



			Woodwork has been busy at both ends!
		
Click to expand...

Forsberg been excellent and a tad unfortunate!


----------



## JamesR (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The forum has been very nice since somebody stopped pointing out how unpleasant it was becoming
		
Click to expand...

Whoever you are referring to wasn’t wrong though, were they?

See the quoted post as exhibit A

Snide comments not really pleasant are they?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Whoever you are referring to wasn’t wrong though, were they?

See the quoted post as exhibit A

Snide comments not really pleasant are they?
		
Click to expand...

It's been more peaceful and pleasant with the majority of the comments died down since though

So treat the cause and the symptoms start to clear up


----------



## JamesR (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			It's been more peaceful and pleasant with the majority of the comments died down since though

So treat the cause and the symptoms start to clear up
		
Click to expand...

From what I see the problem is posting this evening


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Whoever you are referring to wasn’t wrong though, were they?

See the quoted post as exhibit A

Snide comments not really pleasant are they?
		
Click to expand...


some people wont see that they are causing more of a problem than those they accuse


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

JamesR said:



			From what I see the problem is posting this evening
		
Click to expand...

Entirely entitled to your view .. yet I've been posting all week and the forums been a lot nicer 🙄 so only part the problem


----------



## JamesR (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Entirely entitled to your view .. yet I've been posting all week and the forums been a lot nicer 🙄 so only part the problem
		
Click to expand...

It’s not just this week, it’s been say 4 or 5 years of decline.
But certainly recent times have been none stop flaming and wind ups.


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

These two teams look like they are struggling with fitness already.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

Great performance from England. Back five was absolutely the correct call to go man for man with their team. We were pretty solid and got the goals when it counts. Still can't believe people were saying drop Sterling when he keeps making these great runs into the box and getting in goalscoring positions. Kane proved the doubters wrong by scoring when actually given a presentable chance. Muller definitely should have scored and we got away with one, but you need a bit of luck in any tournament. Genuinely can't fault the players or manager this time! Job well done!


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			These two teams look like they are struggling with fitness already.
		
Click to expand...


its the scottish heat


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

JamesR said:



			It’s not just this week, it’s been say 4 or 5 years of decline.
But certainly recent times have been none stop flaming and wind ups.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Great performance from England. Back five was absolutely the correct call to go man for man with their team. We were pretty solid and got the goals when it counts. Still can't believe people were saying drop Sterling when he keeps making these great runs into the box and getting in goalscoring positions. Kane proved the doubters wrong by scoring when actually given a presentable chance. Muller definitely should have scored and we got away with one, but you need a bit of luck in any tournament. Genuinely can't fault the players or manager this time! Job well done!
		
Click to expand...

Got everything right today. Even removing saka wbich at the time seemed mad


----------



## JamesR (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 37300

Click to expand...

Yes I thought that about your posts this evening


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Yes I thought that about your posts this evening
		
Click to expand...

Good .. glad I'm living in your head rent free


----------



## JamesR (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Good .. glad I'm living in your head rent free
		
Click to expand...

Says the man obsessed with Liverpool, and Liverpoolphil in particular


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Says the man obsessed with Liverpool, and Liverpoolphil in particular
		
Click to expand...

Who?


----------



## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Come on chaps. Leave it now. 

It should be a good night, not one to bicker.


----------



## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			These two teams look like they are struggling with fitness already.
		
Click to expand...

Sweden have had a tough run in , high temperatures and constant defending… this is where there is an advantage when you have a big squad with talent


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Come on chaps. Leave it now.

It should be a good night, not one to bicker.
		
Click to expand...

Yes let's celebrate Kane getting off the mark and really hope it opens the flood gates to bang 2-3 on Saturday to fire us into two semi finals in 2 tournaments


----------



## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

I have to say I like the Swedish attack is very good, they are a handful and they are youngsters


----------



## IainP (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Could do with this game becoming an end to end slog with extra time and pens.
		
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On the way....


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## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yes let's celebrate Kane getting off the mark and really hope it opens the flood gates to bang 2-3 on Saturday to fire us into two semi finals in 2 tournaments
		
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He was hit with the ball .. that’s how good Grealish is


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## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			He was hit with the ball .. that’s how good Grealish is
		
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I said it to my spurs mate during the game he needs either a tap in or a pen just to get him going


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## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I have to say I like the Swedish attack is very good, they are a handful and they are youngsters
		
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Decent, and we don't write anyone off since the Iceland debacle, but truly we should have enough to beat either of these sides. They're certainly no better than Croatia or Czech Republic.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Red card incoming.


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

got to be red, diff game now


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## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

My God, that was a horror challenge. The way the guys leg bent back, that was a potential leg breaker. Stonewall red card.


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## GB72 (Jun 29, 2021)

Having trouble seeing the negatives 

No goals conceded
Winning when Kane is not firing 
Less injuries than when we started 
3 wins 
Drew with Scotland in a potential banana skin match against a team with a vocal support and nothing to lose when a draw was all we really needed
No suspensions 
Next opposition playing 120 minutes tonight 
Tough opponents out 
Got the German albatross from around our necks 
Yes we could be more exciting to watch at times but we have the results and momentum is building and we are still in the tournament


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## Golfmmad (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Red card incoming.
		
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He looks in a bad way. Definite red, a reckless tackle if ever I saw one!


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## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Having trouble seeing the negatives

No goals conceded
Winning when Kane is not firing
Less injuries than when we started
3 wins
Drew with Scotland in a potential banana skin match against a team with a vocal support and nothing to lose when a draw was all we really needed
No suspensions
Next opposition playing 120 minutes tonight
Tough opponents out
Got the German albatross from around our necks
Yes we could be more exciting to watch at times but we have the results and momentum is building and we are still in the tournament
		
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Yes all incredibly positive 

He's got sterling firing (been off this season)

He's got us out the group whilst having Henderson and maigure not fit and saving them. Yet proved right to take them because now we can use them (admit I was wrong there)

No goals let in 

Beat the Germans 

Lots of big teams out 

We just need to take every game as a cup finaob


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## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

Minimum stretched ligaments but could be a rupture .. that was horrid


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## GB72 (Jun 29, 2021)




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## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			He looks in a bad way. Definite red, a reckless tackle if ever I saw one!
		
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He's very lucky that didn't result in a broken leg.


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## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

GB72 said:



View attachment 37303

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That was amazing. Honestly, everyone in the pub cheered where I was. 😆


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## JamesR (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			He's very lucky that didn't result in a broken leg.
		
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Sounds crazy but often a break is better than ligament or tendon damage.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 29, 2021)

Is it the slow-mo making that challenge look worse than it was? Not saying it wasn't a red card as the follow through was reckless, and clearly endangered an opponent but did his foot have anywhere else to go after getting the ball?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

Benitez to be confirmed as Everton manager in next 48hrs after agreeing 3yr deal.


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## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is it the slow-mo making that challenge look worse than it was? Not saying it wasn't a red card as the follow through was reckless, and clearly endangered an opponent but did his foot have anywhere else to go after getting the ball?
		
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If your foot ends up that high in the challenge then it's reckless in my opinion. Caught him right up at his knee cap!


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## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Sounds crazy but often a break is better than ligament or tendon damage.
		
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Often it is. But a where the contact was made would have been a serious one.


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is it the slow-mo making that challenge look worse than it was? Not saying it wasn't a red card as the follow through was reckless, and clearly endangered an opponent but did his foot have anywhere else to go after getting the ball?
		
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games changed completely, somehow youre supposed to be able to consider where your foot goes after kicking the ball not just up to the point where you kick it, as used to be the case


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## BiMGuy (Jun 29, 2021)

Will there be enough players left to finish this game?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Benitez to be confirmed as Everton manager in next 48hrs after agreeing 3yr deal.
		
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Just a strange appointment. The fans don't want him, too much history. The slightest drop in form will make the ground toxic. Why put the club in that position?


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## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Will there be enough players left to finish this game?
		
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This is so perfect for England, players dropping like flies.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just a strange appointment. The fans don't want him, too much history. The slightest drop in form will make the ground toxic. Why put the club in that position?
		
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Sounds like the fans need to stop being bigoted and let the man do his job ..


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If your foot ends up that high in the challenge then it's reckless in my opinion. Caught him right up at his knee cap!
		
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I don't totally disagree, but in order for him to win the ball where it was his foot had to be that high as the ball was in the air. He's cleared the ball and caught him in the follow through. By the very nature of where the ball was when he cleared it his foot was going to be high.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If your foot ends up that high in the challenge then it's reckless in my opinion. Caught him right up at his knee cap!
		
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I am in two minds.
The Ukraine player was the one late the ball had already gone.
He should have pulled out.
If the defender lets that go his manager will want to know why.
That’s where the ball is and he got the ball.
But the reply shows a bad injury but can you send someone off because he’s injured and you have quite clearly won the ball.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is it the slow-mo making that challenge look worse than it was? Not saying it wasn't a red card as the follow through was reckless, and clearly endangered an opponent but did his foot have anywhere else to go after getting the ball?
		
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Did he actually follow through?  He was lying on his backside when the Ukranian player ran into his outstretched leg.


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## Billysboots (Jun 29, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Did you not learn from the 5pm kick off?
		
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My assumption was that lightning doesn’t strike twice in the same day!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just a strange appointment. The fans don't want him, too much history. The slightest drop in form will make the ground toxic. Why put the club in that position?
		
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Benitez applied for it, so you’d hope he wants it for the right reason, us fans are fickle, good results on the pitch and the noises will die down, similar position to Southgate for me now😩

I appreciatte and respect him for what he’s done charity wise and for the Hillsborough families, but he also caused more animosity, imo, between Blues and reds than any other lpool manager in my lifetime.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

Well if that’s a red then that’s a penalty.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am in two minds.
The Ukraine player was the one late the ball had already gone.
He should have pulled out.
If the defender lets that go his manager will want to know why.
That’s where the ball is and he got the ball.
But the reply shows a bad injury but can you send someone off because he’s injured and you have quite clearly won the ball.
		
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Seems to have split opinion on Twitter. Gary Lineker and Iain Carter, among others, both saying never a red card, but equally ,many others saying definite red card. It's one of those that you have to ask, is it reckless or is it just an unfortunate coming together than happens during a football match?


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well if that’s a red then that’s a penalty.
		
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another red not a pen lol, surely 

neither side gonna have anyone left for saturday the way this i going


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Benitez applied for it, so you’d hope he wants it for the right reason, us fans are fickle, good results on the oitch and the noises will die down, similar position to Southgate for me now😩

I appreciatte and respect him for what he’s done charity wise and for the Hillsborough families, but he also caused more animosity, imo, between Blues and reds than any other lpool manager in my lifetime.
		
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He still has a house on the Wirral.
I think he will do a good job .
But he has said things the Everton ( small club ) won’t forgive.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Seems to have split opinion on Twitter. Gary Lineker and Iain Carter, among others, both saying never a red card, but equally ,many others saying definite red card. It's one of those that you have to ask, is it reckless or is it just an unfortunate coming together than happens during a football match?
		
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Maybe old school defenders like me .
And not so old school Jessie’s like after it ceased being a mans game!


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 29, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Did he actually follow through?  He was lying on his backside when the Ukranian player ran into his outstretched leg.
		
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He definitely followed through after clearing the ball - he had no option as it was a natural movement. It was just unfortunate that the Ukrainian player ran into his follow through.


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			He definitely followed through after clearing the ball - he had no option as it was a natural movement. It was just unfortunate that the Ukrainian player ran into his follow through.
		
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you cant actually kick the ball and your foot stop instantly, there has to be some degree of follow through, boiling down to how much is going to be permitted before being deemed out of control, and its getting less by the day


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## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2021)

I've literally never seen this many injuries in a game before in my life. Must be a new record.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			He definitely followed through after clearing the ball - he had no option as it was a natural movement. It was just unfortunate that the Ukrainian player ran into his follow through.
		
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Yes it was the Ukraine player who was late in the tackle.


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## JamesR (Jun 29, 2021)

Great goal


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## Golfmmad (Jun 29, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Did he actually follow through?  He was lying on his backside when the Ukranian player ran into his outstretched leg.
		
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That sounds like an excuse. Rather like on the car insurance claim form. "The tree just came out and hit my car sir". 🤣

I have only seen the incident once though.


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

Wow congrats Ukraine

If Southgate had written tonights script.......


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## Billysboots (Jun 29, 2021)

A bit of a late comer to the thread this evening, and I’ve not had chance to catch up with it all, so my honest assessment is not tainted by other comments.

A solid performance, a thoroughly deserved win, but I still feel slightly underwhelmed. There is so much more to come from this England side, and it was notable that the first goal, at least, was a result of us moving the ball quickly.

I heard the distinction being made this evening between Southgate being negative and conservative. Perhaps I’ve been a little harsh in my views, and he deserves more credit than an armchair England fan like me is prepared to give him. But a 2-0 scoreline in that game actually doesn’t do England’s superiority justice.

And it’s THAT which concerns me. I would hate to see us not make such superiority count in the latter stages of this tournament when we have the talent to put such a game well and truly to bed.


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## IainP (Jun 29, 2021)

What was he wearing under his shirt?


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

IainP said:



			What was he wearing under his shirt?
		
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does that come in a 44A please?


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## JamesR (Jun 29, 2021)

IainP said:



			What was he wearing under his shirt?
		
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Training bra


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			you cant actually kick the ball and your foot stop instantly, there has to be some degree of follow through, boiling down to how much is going to be permitted before being deemed out of control, and its getting less by the day
		
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I agree. With the ball where it was, his foot had to be high to be able to clear it. It was unfortunate that his "follow through" ended up hitting the Ukraine player where it did.


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## 4LEX (Jun 29, 2021)

Full credit to Pickford, Maguire, Stones, Philips, Rice and Saka. Special big up to Sterling who hasn't done anything bar a few tap ins but tonight he was the best player on the park by a mile.

Pretty average performance and Germany perhaps even shaded the game but missed the key chances and we took ours. Should walk Ukraine and Denmark/Czechs


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



*He definitely followed through *after clearing the ball - he had no option as it was a natural movement. It was just unfortunate that the Ukrainian player ran into his follow through.
		
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Not for me, he was falling back & his leg was at full stretch; all the momentum came from the Ukranian player running into him.  I think the referee got the decision right in real time.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



*A bit of a late comer to the thread this evening, and I’ve not had chance to catch up with it all, so my honest assessment is not tainted by other comments.*

A solid performance, a thoroughly deserved win, *but I still feel slightly underwhelmed. *There is so much more to come from this England side, and it was notable that the first goal, at least, was a result of us moving the ball quickly.

I heard the distinction being made this evening between Southgate being negative and conservative. Perhaps I’ve been a little harsh in my views, and he deserves more credit than an armchair England fan like me is prepared to give him. But a 2-0 scoreline in that game actually doesn’t do England’s superiority justice.

And it’s THAT which concerns me. I would hate to see us not make such superiority count in the latter stages of this tournament when we have the talent to put such a game well and truly to bed.
		
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Ditto to all that.

about a hundred pages back I joked Southgate would play 8-1-1. I was one defensive player out. It’s always a good day when we beat the German, but this team is not lifting me at the moment.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 29, 2021)

IainP said:



			What was he wearing under his shirt?
		
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I think that holds the tracking device from which they obtain the stats about how far players have run.


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## davidy233 (Jun 29, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I think that holds the tracking device from which they obtain the stats about how far players have run.
		
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Does indeed - nearly every player wears them now


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## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I've literally never seen this many injuries in a game before in my life. Must be a new record.
		
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Think it was the total fatigue causing that .. it will be the same in Qatar , football is a winter sport .. the World Cup is pointless when played where it is too hot .. just going to be the big squads that survive


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## pauljames87 (Jun 29, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Think it was the total fatigue causing that .. it will be the same in Qatar , football is a winter sport .. the World Cup is pointless when played where it is too hot .. just going to be the big squads that survive
		
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Amount of quality throughout our squad will do us favours then?


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Think it was the total fatigue causing that .. it will be the same in Qatar , football is a winter sport .. the World Cup is pointless when played where it is too hot .. just going to be the big squads that survive
		
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it was at hampden park! how hot was it up there tonight?


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## 4LEX (Jun 29, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Think it was the total fatigue causing that .. it will be the same in Qatar , football is a winter sport .. the World Cup is pointless when played where it is too hot .. just going to be the big squads that survive
		
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You do realise the climate of Qatar in December is milder than a European summer, let alone Mexico or the US!


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## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Amount of quality throughout our squad will do us favours then?
		
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If he plays them, I would give some fresh legs a crack at the Ukrainian side for the first 50-60 minutes and then bring on the favourites


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## Slime (Jun 29, 2021)

4LEX said:



*Full credit to Pickford, Maguire, Stones, Philips, Rice and Saka. *Special big up to Sterling who hasn't done anything bar a few tap ins but tonight he was the best player on the park by a mile.

Pretty average performance and Germany perhaps even shaded the game but missed the key chances and we took ours. Should walk Ukraine and Denmark/Czechs 

Click to expand...

You missed out Luke Shaw.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			it was at hampden park! how hot was it up there tonight?
		
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It was the damage done previously.. and it was surprisingly warm up there .. the midges were the size of helicopters


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			It was the damage done previously.. and it was surprisingly warm up there .. the midges were the size of helicopters
		
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18 degrees at kick off if you believe michael foot and his friends, think it was double that in seville the other night!!!!!!


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## harpo_72 (Jun 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			18 degrees at kick off if you believe michael foot and his friends, think it was double that in seville the other night!!!!!!
		
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Yeah not sure where Sweden played their first 2 games but they were hot .. might have been Spain or Hungary


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Yeah not sure where Sweden played their first 2 games but they were hot .. might have been Spain or Hungary
		
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yeah they will have played Spain in Seville, makes sense


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## garyinderry (Jun 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			He definitely followed through after clearing the ball - he had no option as it was a natural movement. It was just unfortunate that the Ukrainian player ran into his follow through.
		
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Completely agree.  Not a red for me at all.


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			yeah they will have played Spain in Seville, makes sense 

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wow they only had 14% possession in that game too


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			yeah they will have played Spain in Seville, makes sense 

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All the travelling won’t help either.


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## Piece (Jun 30, 2021)

On that Mueller miss, that was some serious pace from Walker to get back. Stones was treading water and he’s no slouch. 🏃‍♂️🌪🚀


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

4LEX said:



			You do realise the climate of Qatar in December is milder than a European summer, let alone Mexico or the US! 

Click to expand...

Those were ridiculous events in their own right. The game needs to be played at 12 degrees or less to see the speeds we play at ..


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## RichA (Jun 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			A bit of a late comer to the thread this evening, and I’ve not had chance to catch up with it all, so my honest assessment is not tainted by other comments.

A solid performance, a thoroughly deserved win, but I still feel slightly underwhelmed. There is so much more to come from this England side, and it was notable that the first goal, at least, was a result of us moving the ball quickly.

I heard the distinction being made this evening between Southgate being negative and conservative. Perhaps I’ve been a little harsh in my views, and he deserves more credit than an armchair England fan like me is prepared to give him. But a 2-0 scoreline in that game actually doesn’t do England’s superiority justice.

And it’s THAT which concerns me. I would hate to see us not make such superiority count in the latter stages of this tournament when we have the talent to put such a game well and truly to bed.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. The relief is huge, but it feels like we snuck through. What's the point of wing backs, if they get the ball up in the corner then hold it there while the defence regroup? So many missed opportunities to sling an early cross in. Even if Kane isn't on the end of each one, there are 2 or 3 attacking midfielders just behind him to do something with a part clearance. It's the source of so many Premier League goals.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			it was at hampden park! how hot was it up there tonight?
		
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My brother, nephew and niece were at the game.  Older fellas would be down to their simmets it being ‘jaikets off lads’ weather.  My niece posted that is was the first evening game she’d been to when it wasn’t freezing...and she goes to a lot of football 😀


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## Bdill93 (Jun 30, 2021)

VINDALOOOOOOOO VINDALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Amount of quality throughout our squad will do us favours then?
		
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Really does depend on whether he uses it , or not potentially the answer is yes. But if you look at the use of subs it might indicate where we are at.
Don’t be surprised to see Mings , James, chilwell on at some point.. I don’t think that would weaken us defensively. 
As I have stated in an earlier post I would put some young guys on up front to really work the Ukrainian defence and then introduce the favourites if it was looking a little lacklustre or we were cruising ( although I have only seen an England side cruise twice .. demolitions of Holland and Germany, back in the 90s) 
Mount and Henderson to start as well .. it could be a whole different team theoretically


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## Tashyboy (Jun 30, 2021)

RichA said:



			Agreed. The relief is huge, but it feels like we snuck through. What's the point of wing backs, if they get the ball up in the corner then hold it there while the defence regroup? So many missed opportunities to sling an early cross in. Even if Kane isn't on the end of each one, there are 2 or 3 attacking midfielders just behind him to do something with a part clearance. It's the source of so many Premier League goals.
		
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In the first half there was a Couple of occasions when the ball broke five or ten yards outside the Germany box and the nearest England player was 30 yards away near the half way line. It was as if the had been coached to not get hit on the counter.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			In the first half there was a Couple of occasions when the ball broke five or ten yards outside the Germany box and the nearest England player was 30 yards away near the half way line. It was as if the had been coached to not get hit on the counter.
		
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Which was absolutely the correct way to play if you saw what Germany did to Portugal.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Which was absolutely the correct way to play if you saw what Germany did to Portugal.
		
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Im with you. Right system, just needed that spark to get us going in attack.

The spark being Grealish


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## pauljames87 (Jun 30, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Really does depend on whether he uses it , or not potentially the answer is yes. But if you look at the use of subs it might indicate where we are at.
Don’t be surprised to see Mings , James, chilwell on at some point.. I don’t think that would weaken us defensively.
As I have stated in an earlier post I would put some young guys on up front to really work the Ukrainian defence and then introduce the favourites if it was looking a little lacklustre or we were cruising ( although I have only seen an England side cruise twice .. demolitions of Holland and Germany, back in the 90s)
Mount and Henderson to start as well .. it could be a whole different team theoretically
		
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id say if you were to change the entire line up.. the real quality players that you would miss would be pickford. maguire and kane .. not to say their replacements wouldnt do a good job at all but the quality isnt the same level where as mings and stones is there much? i mean both have mistakes in them but can be solid.. midfield mount and henderson for rice and phillips wouldnt be a drop in quality ..  sterling whilst our best player its not like sancho and grealish arent equal to him.. plus we already seen the full backs changed


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## pauljames87 (Jun 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Im with you. Right system, just needed that spark to get us going in attack.

The spark being Grealish 

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its really mad .. saka had a good game and was causing issues but then grealish addeed another level


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## Tashyboy (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Which was absolutely the correct way to play if you saw what Germany did to Portugal.
		
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There’s getting hit on the break, but not one player who could pick up a loose ball 😳


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## Bdill93 (Jun 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			its really mad .. saka had a good game and was causing issues but then grealish addeed another level
		
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We just seemed to step it up when he came on. Gave everyone a lift and had a hand in both goals.


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Im with you. Right system, just needed that spark to get us going in attack.

The spark being Grealish 

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Unfortunately for Grealish (but fortunately for England), he has proven that he can make an impact from the bench now, so I expect him to continue in that role. Someone you bring on to make things happen rather than starting with him. Because you need players who can do that. Some players struggle to get into the game from the bench, others get a reputation as someone who can make an impact (see Defoe, Solskjaer, Giroud etc).


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## Bdill93 (Jun 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Unfortunately for Grealish (but fortunately for England), he has proven that he can make an impact from the bench now, so I expect him to continue in that role. Someone you bring on to make things happen rather than starting with him. Because you need players who can do that. Some players struggle to get into the game from the bench, others get a reputation as someone who can make an impact (see Defoe, Solskjaer, Giroud etc).
		
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I hope you're wrong. I fear you may be right. 

Hey, if he wins us the euros off the bench - I wont be complaining


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			id say if you were to change the entire line up.. the real quality players that you would miss would be pickford. maguire and kane .. not to say their replacements wouldnt do a good job at all but the quality isnt the same level where as mings and stones is there much? i mean both have mistakes in them but can be solid.. midfield mount and henderson for rice and phillips wouldnt be a drop in quality ..  sterling whilst our best player its not like sancho and grealish arent equal to him.. plus we already seen the full backs changed
		
Click to expand...

I do think Sterling is underrated in the sense that people don't understand what kind of player he is. They think 'winger' and expect him to be dribbling past full backs and putting crosses in like an old-school winger - that's not his game at all really. What he is brilliant at, better than any other English player, is timing his runs into the box to get those chances that he keeps scoring for us. And that's largely from training with Pep. He's become more of a shadow striker these days, if you had to give it a name. He doesn't have a massive amount of creativity on the ball, but he's become our best player off the ball.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s getting hit on the break, but not one player who could pick up a loose ball 😳
		
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When there you lose possession, as a team you either drop and get into your defensive shape, or you press. You can only press if the whole team do it and you are set correctly. 

Kane doesn't have the pace or the legs to lead that high press, so we drop in and let the Germans have it in their defensive 3rd. There is no danger and we conserve energy.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I do think Sterling is underrated in the sense that people don't understand what kind of player he is. They think 'winger' and expect him to be dribbling past full backs and putting crosses in like an old-school winger - that's not his game at all really. What he is brilliant at, better than any other English player, is timing his runs into the box to get those chances that he keeps scoring for us. And that's largely from training with Pep. He's become more of a shadow striker these days, if you had to give it a name. He doesn't have a massive amount of creativity on the ball, but he's become our best player off the ball.
		
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Exactly, he is there as much for what he does off the ball than with it. 

He might not have the best first touch or final ball. But his movement to create space is as good as anyone.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I do think Sterling is underrated in the sense that people don't understand what kind of player he is. They think 'winger' and expect him to be dribbling past full backs and putting crosses in like an old-school winger - that's not his game at all really. What he is brilliant at, better than any other English player, is timing his runs into the box to get those chances that he keeps scoring for us. And that's largely from training with Pep. He's become more of a shadow striker these days, if you had to give it a name. He doesn't have a massive amount of creativity on the ball, but he's become our best player off the ball.
		
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isnt that what he is training foden to do now aswell?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2021)

After Liverpool won the CL in 2005 there was a lot of pointing towards the level of opponents they faced and the manner of which they played - it was at times very defensive trying to break through but it was tournament football - I thought for England to do well they would need to rely on the outstanding level of talent they can put on the field in the front 5 places and then look to score more than the others. 

They appeared to be weaker defensively overall but the reality at the moment is they are in the quarter finals because of the way they have defended - Pickford is a totally different GK for England , the back 4 or 5 every game have 99% of the time been solid and they have been protected very well - it’s not pretty but it’s tournament football and the aim is to get through to the next round and clean sheets are a massive help in that respect. 

There are still lots of questions marks about going forward and how it’s going to work against the top CB’s ( if there are any left ) and how they will react if a team does score against them but whilst the likes of Pickford , Walker , Maguire and Stones keep showing themselves to be the best defensive set up then there is every chance England get to the final. 

It’s just a shame that some of the fans associated with the national side let themselves down with their actions during the national anthem and then all over Twitter last night - show grace in victory


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## Bdill93 (Jun 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			After Liverpool won the CL in 2005 there was a lot of pointing towards the level of opponents they faced and the manner of which they played - it was at times very defensive trying to break through but it was tournament football - I thought for England to do well they would need to rely on the outstanding level of talent they can put on the field in the front 5 places and then look to score more than the others.

They appeared to be weaker defensively overall but the reality at the moment is they are in the quarter finals because of the way they have defended - *Pickford is a totally different GK for England* , the back 4 or 5 every game have 99% of the time been solid and they have been protected very well - it’s not pretty but it’s tournament football and the aim is to get through to the next round and clean sheets are a massive help in that respect.

There are still lots of questions marks about going forward and how it’s going to work against the top CB’s ( if there are any left ) and how they will react if a team does score against them but whilst the likes of Pickford , Walker , Maguire and Stones keep showing themselves to be the best defensive set up then there is every chance England get to the final.

It’s just a shame that some of the fans associated with the national side let themselves down with their actions during the national anthem and then all over Twitter last night - show grace in victory
		
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Pickford has been OUTSTANDING 

Our back 4 gave them 1 clear chance yesterday and Muller messed it up - so 99% is bang on too. 

Booing a national anthem is appalling - I agree.

And now youve got me wondering which team has the best defence left in the competition.... Italy?


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## RichA (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			When there you lose possession, as a team you either drop and get into your defensive shape, or you press. You can only press if the whole team do it and you are set correctly. 

Kane doesn't have the pace or the legs to lead that high press, so we drop in and let the Germans have it in their defensive 3rd. There is no danger and we conserve energy.
		
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That tactical objective could be achieved without sending the wing back up on his own, by just punting the ball into the corner for the opposing keeper to retrieve. It would be equally effective, but really dull. 
It's just frustrating having so much creative opportunity with so little chaos in the opposing box being generated. What's happened to all the midfielders who would attack a loose ball and have a shot from 20-30 yards.


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Pickford has been OUTSTANDING

Our back 4 gave them 1 clear chance yesterday and Muller messed it up - so 99% is bang on too.

Booing a national anthem is appalling - I agree.

And now youve got me wondering which team has the best defence left in the competition.... Italy?
		
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Italy have only conceded once, in extra time against Austria. So they are second best after ours.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410148490731212801
😂😂😂


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410148490731212801
😂😂😂
		
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Can someone subtitle this while I'm at work?? I'm guessing he thought he met Klopp when it was a lookalike..?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 30, 2021)

Everyone in Scotland is now hoping that England will win.

Imagine the seethe when we say......... aye but the only team you couldnae beat was Scotland.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 30, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Everyone in Scotland is now hoping that England will win.

Imagine the seethe when we say......... aye but the only team you couldnae beat was Scotland. 

Click to expand...

Spot on, our celebrations will be dampened down!


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## AmandaJR (Jun 30, 2021)

Well that's the funniest thing I've read on the forum today


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## BiMGuy (Jun 30, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Everyone in Scotland is now hoping that England will win.

Imagine the seethe when we say......... aye but the only team you couldnae beat was Scotland. 

Click to expand...

Hate to break it to you. But the vast majority of England fans don't consider Scotland to be rivals any more than we would someone like the Ukraine. 

It's like when Leeds play Bradford City. The Bradford fans see it as a massive game and that there is some kind of deep seated rivalry. When in reality there is nothing of the sort. 

Well done once again for your 0-0 win.see you at the world cup.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Can someone subtitle this while I'm at work?? I'm guessing he thought he met Klopp when it was a lookalike..?
		
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A bloke went to football & had a beer 🤷‍♂️
what a character


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Everyone in Scotland is now hoping that England will win.

Imagine the seethe when we say......... aye but the only team you couldnae beat was Scotland. 

Click to expand...

If England win the Euros I very much they would give a monkeys about the results in the group stage 

I hear that they didn’t show the England match on BBC Scotland - instead put on Wish you were Here repeats


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## Kellfire (Jun 30, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Everyone in Scotland is now hoping that England will win.

Imagine the seethe when we say......... aye but the only team you couldnae beat was Scotland. 

Click to expand...

You’ve got way more bites from people who “don’t care” than I would’ve expected. Kudos.


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## RichA (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Hate to break it to you. But the vast majority of England fans don't consider Scotland to be rivals any more than we would someone like the Ukraine.
		
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I remember reading, years ago, that the Germans consider our perceived rivalry with them in a similar way. They don't understand why we think it exists. Their big rivalries are with the Dutch and Italians, not us.
Hopefully, they've added us today.


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2021)

RichA said:



			I remember reading, years ago, that the Germans consider our perceived rivalry with them in a similar way. They don't understand why we think it exists. Their big rivalries are with the Dutch and Italians, not us.
Hopefully, they've added us today.
		
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I guess everyone remembers the teams that beat them more than the teams they've beaten. Before yesterday Germany would have seen us as just another team that they typically breeze past I should think.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			id say if you were to change the entire line up.. the real quality players that you would miss would be pickford. maguire and kane .. not to say their replacements wouldnt do a good job at all but the quality isnt the same level where as mings and stones is there much? i mean both have mistakes in them but can be solid.. midfield mount and henderson for rice and phillips wouldnt be a drop in quality ..  sterling whilst our best player its not like sancho and grealish arent equal to him.. plus we already seen the full backs changed
		
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That’s exactly it maguire and pickford stay … Kane is benched or plays a shorter game , I just think given last nights effort for the Ukrainian side I would look to run them ragged for 50-60minutes


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## larmen (Jun 30, 2021)

…


RichA said:



			I remember reading, years ago, that the Germans consider our perceived rivalry with them in a similar way. They don't understand why we think it exists. Their big rivalries are with the Dutch and Italians, not us.
Hopefully, they've added us today.
		
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I am not sure, based on recent history France has the upper hand.
We also have a worse tournament record against East Germany ;-)

Honestly, I don’t really do rivals. I want us to win and if we don’t then I move on. Good luck to the next team. No need to hate in sports.


On club level it’s different. But I can’t really gloat that enemy number 1 has not been promoted back up, enemy number 2 is going down, all in the same season my team is going down as well.


Turns out, in football I am just content. Happy if we win, fine if we don’t.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Fancy Sterling to have a good tournament funnily 
Pace to burn and pretty good in an England shirt.
I suspect his much published fallout with Pep effected his form for City so I’m expecting a different Sterling in this tournament.
		
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Looks like someone was right.

Although he hasn’t been on his very top form we would be out right now and getting ready for the Hockey season.
Going back through the posts it’s amazing how many people didn’t even want him in any starting eleven ( ay Slime,clubchamp.
As someone has just posted ( hindsight) his movement,pace,work rate,strength,creativity etc guarantees his place in the team.
I do admit he’s frustrating at times but if he wins us the tournament who cares.
Could even win the golden boot?
It looks like Gareth has decided to try and keep a clean sheet and rely on Sterling,Kane and another to win us the games.
Really can’t see us not reaching the final now and believe that will be against Belgium.


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## stefanovic (Jun 30, 2021)

Now that 'we' are in the QF's will the Scots now support England?
To answer this vital question we can deploy the help of the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Person A: No Scotsman supports England in the Euro's.
Person B: My Uncle Angus is a Scot and he will support England now.
Person A: No *true* Scotsman supports England in the Euro's.

So there you have it. Some will, most won't.

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Looks like someone was right.

Although he hasn’t been on his very top form we would be out right now and getting ready for the Hockey season.
Going back through the posts it’s amazing how many people didn’t even want him in any starting eleven ( ay Slime,clubchamp.
As someone has just posted ( hindsight) his movement,pace,work rate,strength,creativity etc guarantees his place in the team.
I do admit he’s frustrating at times but if he wins us the tournament who cares.
Could even win the golden boot?
It looks like Gareth has decided to try and keep a clean sheet and rely on Sterling,Kane and another to win us the games.
Really can’t see us not reaching the final now and believe that will be against Belgium.
		
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I stick by what I have written, I don’t see him as the world class player.. my view is we see glimpses and those are good or bad .. it’s too frustrating because of his potential. There comes a time when you look elsewhere so let’s see what Sancho has Saka has been great … Kane is still not doing it either.. a goal here and there does not make up for the lacklustre movement ( which could have led to more goals) Seriously up front we can really experiment and change our approach.. 5 subs allows this and the defence is fine


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## Hobbit (Jun 30, 2021)

Southgate did it his way in the World Cup, and England got to the semi-finals. Southgate is doing it his way and England are through to the Q/F’s.

I watch some of the other teams and I see players that look stronger, more technical but what is the end result, both in the World Cup and the Euros? They went home before England, the England team managed by Southgate.

Never mind “easy groups/ride,” and avoiding “the group of death.”  There aren’t many mug teams in finals anymore. England will never be a Brazil of the ’70’s but under Southgate they are better than a lot of people give them credit for.

C’mon England!


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			In the first half there was a Couple of occasions when the ball broke five or ten yards outside the Germany box and the nearest England player was 30 yards away near the half way line. It was as if the had been coached to not get hit on the counter.
		
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We did get done on the counter three times but they missed the chances.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Looks like someone was right.

Although he hasn’t been on his very top form we would be out right now and getting ready for the Hockey season.
Going back through the posts it’s amazing how many people didn’t even want him in any starting eleven ( ay Slime,clubchamp.
As someone has just posted ( hindsight) his movement,pace,work rate,strength,creativity etc guarantees his place in the team.
I do admit he’s frustrating at times but if he wins us the tournament who cares.
Could even win the golden boot?
It looks like Gareth has decided to try and keep a clean sheet and rely on Sterling,Kane and another to win us the games.
Really can’t see us not reaching the final now and believe that will be against Belgium.
		
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Yes but if Sterling wasn’t playing Sancho or someone else given the shirt might be the top scorer.
Kane was lucky to still be on the pitch to score he was dire for 85 mins.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Hate to break it to you. But the vast majority of England fans don't consider Scotland to be rivals any more than we would someone like the Ukraine.

It's like when Leeds play Bradford City. The Bradford fans see it as a massive game and that there is some kind of deep seated rivalry. When in reality there is nothing of the sort.

Well done once again for your 0-0 win.see you at the world cup.
		
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Ah right  
I get it
A bit like Germany and England then


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## 2blue (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Hate to break it to you. But the vast majority of England fans don't consider Scotland to be rivals any more than we would someone like the Ukraine.

It's like when Leeds play Bradford City. The Bradford fans see it as a massive game and that there is some kind of deep seated rivalry. When in reality there is nothing of the sort.

Well done once again for your 0-0 win.see you at the world cup.
		
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England v Scotland will always be a big rivalry game for those who know & understand the game. 
Leeds v ManU/Liverpool etc is only a 'rivalry game' to the LUFC fans as their real rivals are Huddersfield/Barnsley etc.
Under Bielsa they've become an exciting & attractive side rather than the 'cloggers' of old.....  just enjoy that.


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Ah right 
I get it
A bit like Germany and England then 

Click to expand...

Man, your banter is so dead, honestly. Just repeatedly misses the mark.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but if Sterling wasn’t playing Sancho or someone else given the shirt might be the top scorer.
Kane was lucky to still be on the pitch to score he was dire for 85 mins.
		
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Exactly this, and if someone was more of a participant in the game who knows what the score could be…
Klinsmann said Germany feared Sancho, they probably got a wobble from Saka as well … Pacey no nonsense direct football is pretty hard to suppress. 
I do find it rather amusing when they swing a cross in and Sterling is going for the header .. fair play to the man but he would be better picking it off as it gains height or is losing height because he isn’t going to compete against a 6’4” defender. Or they should whip it in at ground to knee height .. which is where he does a good job.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 30, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Ah right 
I get it
A bit like Germany and England then 

Click to expand...

Very much the same 👍


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Exactly this, and if someone was more of a participant in the game who knows what the score could be…
Klinsmann said Germany feared Sancho, they probably got a wobble from Saka as well … Pacey no nonsense direct football is pretty hard to suppress.
I do find it rather amusing when they swing a cross in and Sterling is going for the header .. fair play to the man but he would be better picking it off as it gains height or is losing height because he isn’t going to compete against a 6’4” defender. Or they should whip it in at ground to knee height .. which is where he does a good job.
		
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And yet, he has already scored a header.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 30, 2021)

2blue said:



			England v Scotland will always be a big rivalry game for those who know & understand the game.
Leeds v ManU/Liverpool etc is only a 'rivalry game' to the LUFC fans as their real rivals are Huddersfield/Barnsley etc.
Under Bielsa they've become an exciting & attractive side rather than the 'cloggers' of old.....  just enjoy that.
		
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Don't worry. I am fully enjoying Bielsa Ball as I know it won't last forever.

The dog botherers (Huddersfield) are absolutely one of our biggest rivals. Not sure where you get Barnsley from 🤷‍♂️

Every ManU fan I know was frothing at the gills when we got to play against them again. There is history and a rivalry there. 

Be honest, everyone loves playing dirty Leeds. Its a cup final for most teams. Regardless of what division we are in.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Don't worry. I am fully enjoying Bielsa Ball as I know it won't last forever.

The dog botherers (Huddersfield) are absolutely one of our biggest rivals. Not sure where you get Barnsley from 🤷‍♂️

Every ManU fan I know was frothing at the gills when we got to play against them again. There is history and a rivalry there.

Be honest, everyone loves playing dirty Leeds. *Its a cup final for most teams.* Regardless of what division we are in.
		
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Im dying


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			And yet, he has already scored a header.
		
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Yep when the ball was on its downward path and he has put in a ball that was crossed at foot level.
He has poached very well… but can we carry players that go awol for massive chunks of time, or have occasional inputs ?



I could be rude and say the ball hit him … 🤣


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Yep when the ball was on its downward path and he has put in a ball that was crossed at foot level.
He has poached very well… *but can we carry players that go awol for massive chunks of time, or have occasional inputs *?



I could be rude and say the ball hit him … 🤣
		
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I don't really know what this means? If that 'occasional input' is popping a goal in, then yes.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't really know what this means? If that 'occasional input' is popping a goal in, then yes. 

Click to expand...

You are aware that there are 11 players on each team and football is a team game where they all work together really well… I mean we have seen a collection of super stars being beaten by a team on more than one occasion during this Euros ..
Occasional input means exactly that … he is wandering round the park most the time looking at the grass .. Thiago does that for Spain …


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			You are aware that there are 11 players on each team and football is a team game where they all work together really well… I mean we have seen a collection of super stars being beaten by a team on more than one occasion during this Euros ..
Occasional input means exactly that … he is wandering round the park most the time looking at the grass .. Thiago does that for Spain …
		
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And you are aware that we've just knocked out Germany and haven't even conceded a goal yet?? 

I firmly believe that you need to grow into a tournament to win it. Very few teams ever smash the group and keep that form going for another two weeks, it's hard to do. We've eased our way through the group without very much effort, our first knockout game was an improvement on that as well. I liked Southgate's horses-for-courses approach in shifting to wing backs to match Germany's formation, and it did the job. He's not about to throw it up in the air and drop the only players who have scored for us is he??


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## Hobbit (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Don't worry. I am fully enjoying Bielsa Ball as I know it won't last forever.

The dog botherers (Huddersfield) are absolutely one of our biggest rivals. Not sure where you get Barnsley from 🤷‍♂️

Every ManU fan I know was frothing at the gills when we got to play against them again. There is history and a rivalry there.

Be honest, everyone loves playing dirty Leeds. Its a cup final for most teams. Regardless of what division we are in.
		
Click to expand...




Bdill93 said:



			Im dying 

Click to expand...

I‘ve covered the keyboard with coffee reading the “it’s a cup final…” line. Is someone on the sauce a little early today?


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## BiMGuy (Jun 30, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			I‘ve covered the keyboard with coffee reading the “it’s a cup final…” line. Is someone on the sauce a little early today?
		
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I've got NLU Tourist Sauce on in the background!

People get excited about playing Leeds. No one gets excited about playing Villa, Spurs, West Ham ore Everton etc. 

Accept it and move on.

Anyway. We should have club rivalry put to one side whilst we cheer on Gareth and the boys.


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I've got NLU Tourist Sauce on in the background!

*People get excited about playing Leeds. *No one gets excited about playing Villa, Spurs, West Ham ore Everton etc.

Accept it and move on.

Anyway. We should have club rivalry put to one side whilst we cheer on Gareth and the boys.
		
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It's not the 80s anymore.  I was happy to see them return to the Premier League as they were gone too long. But they're still just another game.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			And you are aware that we've just knocked out Germany and haven't even conceded a goal yet?? 

I firmly believe that you need to grow into a tournament to win it. Very few teams ever smash the group and keep that form going for another two weeks, it's hard to do. We've eased our way through the group without very much effort, our first knockout game was an improvement on that as well. I liked Southgate's horses-for-courses approach in shifting to wing backs to match Germany's formation, and it did the job. He's not about to throw it up in the air and drop the only players who have scored for us is he??
		
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No one has questioned Southgate tactics and the defence has been fine. The attacking selections have not shown their capability… and you are right we will have to suffer another Sterling performance.. but the point is are we afraid of change? The defence is fine leave it be but save Sterling for the final or the last 20minutes against the Ukrainian side .. and do the same with Kane and if the youngsters show nothing in the 50-60minutes then we know Kane and Sterling are definitely the very best we have … up until then we can have this endless discussion which is perennial with England selections that are purely based on names and not form /performance/ hunger..


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's not the 80s anymore.  I was happy to see them return to the Premier League as they were gone too long. But they're still just another game.
		
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Spurs fan?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2021)

Leeds fans I follow on Twitter seem to love the fact that people “hate” them.
When in reality I don’t think many opposition fans do.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 30, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Leeds fans I follow on Twitter seem to love the fact that people “hate” them.
When in reality I don’t think many opposition fans do.
		
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We hate the fact that no one seems to hate us anymore. 🤣

I've had loads of people (through gritted teeth) tell me they've enjoyed watching Leeds in the PL. It just doesn't feel right. 

We are the antidote to stale try not to lose football.


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## Piece (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I've got NLU Tourist Sauce on in the background!

*People get excited about playing Leeds*. No one gets excited about playing Villa, Spurs, West Ham ore Everton etc.

Accept it and move on.

Anyway. We should have club rivalry put to one side whilst we cheer on Gareth and the boys.
		
Click to expand...

Good fishing.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			We hate the fact that no one seems to hate us anymore. 🤣

I've had loads of people (through gritted teeth) tell me they've enjoyed watching Leeds in the PL.

We are the antidote to stale try not to lose football.
		
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😂😂 my mates a season ticket holder & he likes to think everyone hates you.

I like to point out you were a lot of peoples 2nd club last season 😊

Did you actually have any dull games last season?


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## pokerjoke (Jun 30, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			No one has questioned Southgate tactics and the defence has been fine. The attacking selections have not shown their capability… and you are right we will have to suffer another Sterling performance.. but the point is are we afraid of change? The defence is fine leave it be but save Sterling for the final or the last 20minutes against the Ukrainian side .. and do the same with Kane and if the youngsters show nothing in the 50-60minutes then we know Kane and Sterling are definitely the very best we have … up until then we can have this endless discussion which is perennial with England selections that are purely based on names and not form /performance/ hunger..
		
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Wether Kane and Sterling are the best we have we just won’t know,it seems Gareth has cemented them in and just changes one or 2 others,Foden and Saka for example.
I believe Foden was dropped for one significant reason and that’s his drive to chase everything down,sometimes headless where he will run from the half way line straight to their keeper leaving us exposed.
Gareth doesn’t want that he wants shape and discipline and Foden will need to do that.
Also his tactics have been questioned all over SM for example playing 7 defensive players.
So far he has got it right and I can’t see wholesale changes to suit the public or German media.
We certainly differ over Sterling because without his goals so far we’re out.
Wether Sancho or Bellingham or Grealish starting we would have the same results we are never going to know.


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## 2blue (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I've got NLU Tourist Sauce on in the background!

*People get excited about playing Leeds.* No one gets excited about playing Villa, Spurs, West Ham ore Everton etc.

Accept it and move on.

Anyway. We should have club rivalry put to one side whilst we cheer on Gareth and the boys.
		
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Hahaha........  & would have done decades ago with Cloughie if the 'end of the line' players hadn't been bigger than the Club.
 Beilsa is the new 'Cloughie' & may well take the team to similar places.......  Beilsa's Leeds is well worth watching...  like all good coaches he backs his players if they are accepting of his methods & that he is 'The Boss'!!


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Wether Kane and Sterling are the best we have we just won’t know,it seems Gareth has cemented them in and just changes one or 2 others,Foden and Saka for example.
I believe Foden was dropped for one significant reason and that’s his drive to chase everything down,sometimes headless where he will run from the half way line straight to their keeper leaving us exposed.
Gareth doesn’t want that he wants shape and discipline and Foden will need to do that.
Also his tactics have been questioned all over SM for example playing 7 defensive players.
So far he has got it right and I can’t see wholesale changes to suit the public or German media.
We certainly differ over Sterling because without his goals so far we’re out.
Wether Sancho or Bellingham or Grealish starting we would have the same results we are never going to know.
		
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That’s the point, Ukraine is that opportunity. But trotting out Kane and Sterling for 90mins every 4 days isn’t sustainable.. Kane was already quite static, and Sterling well I have said enough on the matter .. but we have strength and depth and that should be used to our advantage and also get more experience.


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## 3offTheTee (Jun 30, 2021)

2blue said:



			Hahaha........  & would have done decades ago with Cloughie if the 'end of the line' players hadn't been bigger than the Club.
Beilsa is the new 'Cloughie' & may well take the team to similar places.......  Beilsa's Leeds is well worth watching...  like all good coaches he backs his players if they are accepting of his methods & that he is 'The Boss'!!
		
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However Cloughie did not take them very far. he lasted 44 days!


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## 2blue (Jun 30, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			However Cloughie did not take them very far. he lasted 44 days!
		
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And all because players were allowed to be bigger than the Club....  very much their loss.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's not the 80s anymore.  I was happy to see them return to the Premier League as they were gone too long. But they're still just another game.
		
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An easy 6 points 😉


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## pauljames87 (Jun 30, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			You are aware that there are 11 players on each team and football is a team game where they all work together really well… I mean we have seen a collection of super stars being beaten by a team on more than one occasion during this Euros ..
Occasional input means exactly that … he is wandering round the park most the time looking at the grass .. Thiago does that for Spain …
		
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Lampard made a career out of it?


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## Fade and Die (Jun 30, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Leeds fans I follow on Twitter seem to love the fact that people “hate” them.
When in reality I don’t think many opposition fans do.
		
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The Millwall of the North? 😂😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			We hate the fact that no one seems to hate us anymore. 🤣

I've had loads of people (through gritted teeth) tell me they've enjoyed watching Leeds in the PL. It just doesn't feel right.

We are the antidote to stale try not to lose football.
		
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Try being a fan of everyone’s second favourite team. Well we were when we were losing every other week. Then sheik Mansoor pumped In a few billion And were public enemy number one. It’s like every City fan has stolen a dummy off a baby. 😁


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## Tashyboy (Jun 30, 2021)

First chance of me analogy of the game Last night. Have we really got out of second gear. A boring 0-0 against Scotland and we’re easing into the tournament.
Last night Sterling reminded me of Pogba the night before. He scores a winner and then gets robbed on the half way line and that’s the equaliser.
Sterling scores and plays the best pass of the night to a German player. He/ we got away with a massive one there. He knew it, the whole of Germany knew it, he was on his knees. Both players showed why They are both questionable For both England and France and City and Utd.
We are through to the quarters and I am bored out of my mind watching England. 
Harry Kane, where do you start. His movement has been shocking. One for the Spurs fans. Is he always that slow.
England last night were Rammel, Germany were Rammeler. They have massive problems.


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## Golfmmad (Jun 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			First chance of me analogy of the game Last night. Have we really got out of second gear. A boring 0-0 against Scotland and we’re easing into the tournament.
Last night Sterling reminded me of Pogba the night before. He scores a winner and then gets robbed on the half way line and that’s the equaliser.
Sterling scores and plays the best pass of the night to a German player. He/ we got away with a massive one there. He knew it, the whole of Germany knew it, he was on his knees. Both players showed why They are both questionable For both England and France and City and Utd.
We are through to the quarters and I am bored out of my mind watching England. 
Harry Kane, where do you start. His movement has been shocking. One for the Spurs fans. Is he always that slow.
England last night were Rammel, Germany were Rammeler. They have massive problems.
		
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Utter rubbish Tashyboy, go wash your mouth out😅


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## Slime (Jun 30, 2021)

United finally sign Jadon Sancho!


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## BiMGuy (Jun 30, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			😂😂 my mates a season ticket holder & he likes to think everyone hates you.

I like to point out you were a lot of peoples 2nd club last season 😊

Did you actually have any dull games last season?
		
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I don't recall a dull game. I do recall a few awful performances though. But most games were exciting. Probably more exciting than I'd ideally like at times 🤣


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## Kellfire (Jun 30, 2021)

Spurs finally have a manager!


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## chrisd (Jun 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			First chance of me analogy of the game Last night. Have we really got out of second gear. A boring 0-0 against Scotland and we’re easing into the tournament.
Last night Sterling reminded me of Pogba the night before. He scores a winner and then gets robbed on the half way line and that’s the equaliser.
Sterling scores and plays the best pass of the night to a German player. He/ we got away with a massive one there. He knew it, the whole of Germany knew it, he was on his knees. Both players showed why They are both questionable For both England and France and City and Utd.
We are through to the quarters and I am bored out of my mind watching England.
Harry Kane, where do you start. His movement has been shocking. One for the Spurs fans. Is he always that slow.
England last night were Rammel, Germany were Rammeler. They have massive problems.
		
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A win is a win.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Don't worry. I am fully enjoying Bielsa Ball as I know it won't last forever.

The dog botherers (Huddersfield) are absolutely one of our biggest rivals. Not sure where you get Barnsley from 🤷‍♂️

Every ManU fan I know was frothing at the gills when we got to play against them again. There is history and a rivalry there.

Be honest, everyone loves playing dirty Leeds. *Its a cup final for most teams. *Regardless of what division we are in.
		
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😂😂

It maybe for the Sheffield clubs and Bradford but i don’t expect it’s a cup final for any of the top teams


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I don't recall a dull game. I do recall a few awful performances though. But most games were exciting. Probably more exciting than I'd ideally like at times 🤣
		
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Tbf tho mate if you’d tried to play safe & dull you’d have been in a dog fight to stop up all season.


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lampard made a career out of it?
		
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He did but he has one of the best scoring records for a midfielder in the premiership… he also struggled to have a regular place in the England squad


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 30, 2021)




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## larmen (Jun 30, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			He did but he has one of the best scoring records for a midfielder in the premiership… he also struggled to have a regular place in the England squad
		
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Didn’t he have the problem that the best England player at the time, Gerrard, was playing his position?


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## harpo_72 (Jun 30, 2021)

larmen said:



			Didn’t he have the problem that the best England player at the time, Gerrard, was playing his position?
		
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Apparently yes … or was it a case of names being preferred


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			United finally sign Jadon Sancho! 

Click to expand...

He might get a game now he’s at a big club.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



View attachment 37324

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Think they need to change that to Pickford 🤭


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## Tashyboy (Jul 1, 2021)

chrisd said:



			A win is a win.
		
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Unless your Scottish and 0-0 is a win 😉😁


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## Kellfire (Jul 1, 2021)

You English lot REALLY didn’t take that draw with Scotland well.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 1, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You English lot REALLY didn’t take that draw with Scotland well.
		
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At least they were there.......


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## BiMGuy (Jul 1, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You English lot REALLY didn’t take that draw with Scotland well.
		
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Believe me, it's long forgotten. But I'm sure the Scotts will dine out on it for a long time. 

The way you celebrated winning 0-0 said all that needs to be said about the ability and ambition of our respective national teams.


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## Rooter (Jul 1, 2021)




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## Rooter (Jul 1, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Believe me, it's long forgotten. But I'm sure the Scotts will dine out on it for a long time.

The way you celebrated winning 0-0 said all that needs to be said about the ability and ambition of our respective national teams.
		
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You know Kellfire is not Scottish yeh??

I think fair play, dine out on it! 0-0 when you consider the gulf in world ranking is a huge result!! More of a shock than us beating an average german team and you would think we had won the world cup!!


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## Hobbit (Jul 1, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You English lot REALLY didn’t take that draw with Scotland well.
		
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It’s not the draw which is the issue, it’s the gloating by some of the Scots, just as they have done since they beat England in 67, gloating on it for 54 years. It’s yesterday’s news. The danger is that if England win the tournament, or however far they go, there’ll be some reedy snivelling voices saying, “we’re as good as you.” They we’re on the night but they’re not Or they’d be in the Q/F’s.


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## Billysboots (Jul 1, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Think they need to change that to Pickford 🤭
		
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The fact that so many are of the opinion that Pickford has been, to date, England’s man of the tournament, says much about the team’s performances. It was the same with de Gea at United for too long.

As I have said, I remain unconvinced by England to date at the Euros, and the experts’ comments relating to our goalkeeper would tend to suggest there may be good reason for my observations. If we were playing as well as some seem to think, Pickford would hardly get a mention.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You English lot REALLY didn’t take that draw with Scotland well.
		
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Ha ha, you are really looking too much into that. Long gone, easily forgotten.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 1, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The fact that so many are of the opinion that Pickford has been, to date, England’s man of the tournament, says much about the team’s performances. It was the same with de Gea at United for too long.

As I have said, I remain unconvinced by England to date at the Euros, and the experts’ comments relating to our goalkeeper would tend to suggest there may be good reason for my observations. If we were playing as well as some seem to think, Pickford would hardly get a mention.
		
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He's been very good when needed. But how many saves has he had to make? 2 against Germany, and one of those was questionable as to whether or not it was going in. 

He has been exceptional at organising the defence and being an option to receive the ball, then distribute it well.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The fact that so many are of the opinion that Pickford has been, to date, England’s man of the tournament, says much about the team’s performances. It was the same with de Gea at United for too long.

As I have said, I remain unconvinced by England to date at the Euros, and the experts’ comments relating to our goalkeeper would tend to suggest there may be good reason for my observations. If we were playing as well as some seem to think, Pickford would hardly get a mention.
		
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That’s the thing, everyone is getting carried away, but brutally honest none of the top teams have delivered on their promise. I am thinking Belgium are in trouble due to injury, Spain may be finally warming up ( you could argue they really are playing tournament football!) .. Italy struggled despite very impressive group stage performances.. the Czech vs Danes will be tight, nothing is predictable… and the Ukrainian match for England could be an opportunity to let the kids show what they can do for 60 minutes ( I don’t want the tournament to end without seeing them play that would only devalue England selection.. give them their chance and this game is a good opportunity)


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			He's been very good when needed. But how many saves has he had to make? 2 against Germany, and one of those was questionable as to whether or not it was going in.

He has been exceptional at organising the defence and being an option to receive the ball, then distribute it well.
		
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The distribution stuff, when he has time he is impressive… but … and this is not a criticism of Pickford, this aimed at this line “build from the back”.. it’s too sweeping a statement . They back pass, the opposition press, they go further back.. they get in trouble, they pass to the keeper who hoofs it out of play or has an utter drama ( see Spanish GK) …why not dump it in the far corner and press? It would be a better result than just blindly playing back and not seeking to switch or play forward


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## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			He's been very good when needed. But how many saves has he had to make? 2 against Germany, and one of those was questionable as to whether or not it was going in.

He has been exceptional at organising the defence and being an option to receive the ball, then distribute it well.
		
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I was going to say the same, it's not like he's made 8 or 9 saves each game, it's been 1 or 2 really good ones. I think it's just the expectation was low for him since he's not an exceptional keeper, but he has far exceeded those expectations so far. 



harpo_72 said:



			That’s the thing, everyone is getting carried away, but brutally honest none of the top teams have delivered on their promise. I am thinking Belgium are in trouble due to injury, Spain may be finally warming up ( you could argue they really are playing tournament football!) .. Italy struggled despite very impressive group stage performances.. the Czech vs Danes will be tight, nothing is predictable…* and the Ukrainian match for England could be an opportunity to let the kids show what they can do for 60 minutes ( I don’t want the tournament to end without seeing them play that would only devalue England selection.. give them their chance and this game is a good opportunity)*

Click to expand...

Sorry but this kind of talk should be dead in the water since the Iceland incident. I hope we learn from that mistake and take Ukraine seriously. Play the strongest side that Gareth thinks will win the tie without any doubt or fuss.


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## GB72 (Jul 1, 2021)

Looks like the WHO and Germany are getting a bit salty about crowds being allowed at the Euros. Germany have a particular dig at the England match but fail to mention that is was a test event with crowds being tested in advance etc


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I was going to say the same, it's not like he's made 8 or 9 saves each game, it's been 1 or 2 really good ones. I think it's just the expectation was low for him since he's not an exceptional keeper, but he has far exceeded those expectations so far.


Sorry but this kind of talk should be dead in the water since the Iceland incident. I hope we learn from that mistake and take Ukraine seriously. Play the strongest side that Gareth thinks will win the tie without any doubt or fuss.
		
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Different situation completely, look more carefully into it and the difference in number of subs etc…


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## BrianM (Jul 1, 2021)

Is the tournament still going on, I thought it was won on Tuesday night 😂😂


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## BiMGuy (Jul 1, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			The distribution stuff, when he has time he is impressive… but … and this is not a criticism of Pickford, this aimed at this line “build from the back”.. it’s too sweeping a statement . They back pass, the opposition press, they go further back.. they get in trouble, they pass to the keeper who hoofs it out of play or has an utter drama ( see Spanish GK) …why not dump it in the far corner and press? It would be a better result than just blindly playing back and not seeking to switch or play forward
		
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Why would you want to willingly give the ball back to the opposition? Especially when you don't have the players to press. Even more so when playing a team like Germany that want you to come at them. 

Even teams that can press don't just kick and chase. Not having the ball and pressing uses up huge amounts of energy. Keeping the ball uses far less energy. And conserving energy is a massive positive in tournament football.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Why would you want to willingly give the ball back to the opposition? Especially when you don't have the players to press. Even more so when playing a team like Germany that want you to come at them.

Even teams that can press don't just kick and chase. Not having the ball and pressing uses up huge amounts of energy. Keeping the ball uses far less energy. And conserving energy is a massive positive in tournament football.
		
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That’s what I am saying about the back pass, it is not always the right thing and the mantra of building from the back needs to be diluted .. I don’t want to see them give away the ball I just see it being inevitable especially if you just “build from the back” without having a strategy or movement that gives you more options..


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 1, 2021)

You can’t win being an England fan, the players have no chance!!

We are either getting too carried away or being over cautious or criticising this player or bigging up that player!

Why not just enjoy the ride? If we win we can celebrate and if we lose we can commiserate.

I understand we all have opinions and it’s good to discuss, but it’s almost like some of our own supporters are afraid of getting carried away and want us to fail.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I was going to say the same, it's not like he's made 8 or 9 saves each game, it's been 1 or 2 really good ones. I think it's just the *expectation was low for him* since he's not an exceptional keeper, but he has far exceeded those expectations so far.
		
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Not from Southgate it wasn’t and since when has he ever let England down?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 1, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			It’s not the draw which is the issue, it’s the gloating by some of the Scots, just as they have done since they beat England in 67, gloating on it for 54 years. It’s yesterday’s news. The danger is that if England win the tournament, or however far they go, there’ll be some reedy snivelling voices saying, “we’re as good as you.” They we’re on the night but they’re not Or they’d be in the Q/F’s.
		
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That's a bit harsh, many Scot's I know were heartily congratulating England beating West Germany for the first time in 55 years.


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## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not from Southgate it wasn’t and since when has he ever let England down?
		
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As I keep saying, it's not a different bloke that plays for Everton. It's the same guy. Unless you reckon he just doesn't care enough to play that well for Everton? The fact he hasn't made a clanger for England yet is only law of averages because he's played 160 odd times for Everton and 35 for England. But, long may it continue.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That's a bit harsh, many Scot's I know were heartily congratulating *England beating West Germany for the first time in 55 years*.

Click to expand...

Surely you would have checked that fact before posting 🙄


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## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely you would have checked that fact before posting 🙄
		
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I figured it was meant to be some kind of joke due to the 'West' Germany, but I've given up trying to identify the humour in his posts by now.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As I keep saying, it's not a different bloke that plays for Everton. It's the same guy. Unless you reckon he just doesn't care enough to play that well for Everton? The fact he hasn't made a clanger for England yet is only law of averages because he's played 160 odd times for Everton and 35 for England. But, long may it continue.
		
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Are Kane’s scoring statistics the same as his Spurs ones??


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## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Are Kane’s scoring statistics the same as his Spurs ones??
		
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0.6 goals per game for England, 0.68 for Spurs (league only) so not a million miles apart. Why did you ask?


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			0.6 goals per game for England, 0.68 for Spurs (league only) so not a million miles apart. Why did you ask?
		
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If your quoting Pickford’s performance stats .. although perhaps the blunder count is not wholly transparent. You have to look at every one else’s and seeing as Kane and Sterling are favoured they should get more scrutiny. But I think Kane’s last goal was the ball hitting him 🤭 and should not be counted .. greater credit should go to Grealish 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## davidy233 (Jul 1, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			If your quoting Pickford’s performance stats .. although perhaps the blunder count is not wholly transparent. You have to look at every one else’s and seeing as Kane and Sterling are favoured they should get more scrutiny. But I think Kane’s last goal was the ball hitting him 🤭 and should not be counted .. greater credit should go to Grealish 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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All the credit should go to Luke Shaw


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			All the credit should go to Luke Shaw
		
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Indeed like Saka should be credited for game 2’s goal


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## davidy233 (Jul 1, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Indeed like Saka should be credited for game 2’s goal
		
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Was game 2 not Scotland? Must have missed that goal or Saka playing


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			Was game 2 not Scotland? Must have missed that goal or Saka playing 

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Ah sorry I totally forgot that game 😂 it would be game 3


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## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2021)

That's not really how it works.


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## davidy233 (Jul 1, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Ah sorry I totally forgot that game 😂 it would be game 3
		
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Ha ha - I didn't bother with England's third game


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## Bdill93 (Jul 1, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			All the credit should go to Luke Shaw
		
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He set up sterling......


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## Bdill93 (Jul 1, 2021)

Your daily reminder that...




ITS COMING HOME


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Your daily reminder that...




ITS COMING HOME
		
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Will it have to isolate for 10days??


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## davidy233 (Jul 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			He set up sterling......
		
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He also carried the ball forward drew the defenders and gave Grealish an easy opportunity to put the cross in for Kane.


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## Bdill93 (Jul 1, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Will it have to isolate for 10days??
		
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Nope.. because its not leaving after the quarters! All games at Wembley thereafter... Its on its way over from Portugal now!


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## Bdill93 (Jul 1, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			He also carried the ball forward drew the defenders and gave Grealish an easy opportunity to put the cross in for Kane.
		
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Like Grealish did in reverse for Shaw's assist? 

Its a team game man! Shaw and JG do link up very well though, I'd have him at Villa....


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Like Grealish did in reverse for Shaw's assist? 

Its a team game man! Shaw and JG do link up very well though, I'd have him at Villa....
		
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I think we should praise the pair of them and highlight Grealish’s ability to hit Kane and Sterling given their propensity to usually be nowhere useful


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## davidy233 (Jul 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Like Grealish did in reverse for Shaw's assist? 

Its a team game man! Shaw and JG do link up very well though, I'd have him at Villa....
		
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I wasn't commenting on the first goal though - you'd have Grealish at Villa? Don't you mean had? Or am I getting ahead of how it's going?


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## Hobbit (Jul 1, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That's a bit harsh, many Scot's I know were heartily congratulating England beating West Germany for the first time in 55 years.

Click to expand...


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## Hobbit (Jul 1, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I think we should praise the pair of them and highlight Grealish’s ability to hit Kane and Sterling given their propensity to usually be nowhere useful
		
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Or maybe they have been in the right places on occasion but no one has been capable of setting them up…. Just saying… for a friend.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As I keep saying, it's not a different bloke that plays for Everton. It's the same guy. Unless you reckon he just doesn't care enough to play that well for Everton? The fact he hasn't made a clanger for England yet is only law of averages because he's played 160 odd times for Everton and 35 for England. But, long may it continue.
		
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Try to think of Pickford from an Everton fan’s point of view as you think of Kane, Pickford’s mistakes have been few and for between for Everton last season and he is judged on the past, he’s still young and is improving all the time.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Or maybe they have been in the right places on occasion but no one has been capable of setting them up…. Just saying… for a friend.

Click to expand...

No It is a fair point, our camera view is just the back passes and you actually miss the movement up the front.


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## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Try to think of Pickford from an Everton fan’s point of view as you think of Kane, Pickford’s mistakes have been few and for between for Everton last season and he is judged on the past, he’s still young and is improving all the time.
		
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He has 6 errors leading to goals in the last two seasons, and he's 27 so not really what you'd call young. But anyway, he is playing out of his skin right now and that's the main thing.  Long may he continue to only make mistakes for Everton.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He has 6 errors leading to goals in the last two seasons, and he's 27 so not really what you'd call young. But anyway, he is playing out of his skin right now and that's the main thing.  Long may he continue to only make mistakes for Everton. 

Click to expand...

How many misses has Kane had over the same period for Spurs and England?


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## harpo_72 (Jul 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He has 6 errors leading to goals in the last two seasons, and he's 27 so not really what you'd call young. But anyway, he is playing out of his skin right now and that's the main thing.  Long may he continue to only make mistakes for Everton. 

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6 errors in 160 appearances ?? Is that your concern?


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## BiMGuy (Jul 1, 2021)

Like I said. Pickford is one of the best keepers at the tournament.


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## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			6 errors in 160 appearances ?? Is that your concern?
		
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I know English seasons are pretty tough but they're not that bad!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I know English seasons are pretty tough but they're not that bad!
		
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You need to look at the complete list, very few if any keeper is error free.

Probably all make less errors than forwards miss chances.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2021)

Billy Gilmour has gone on a season long loan at Norwich. Good business for all concerned, including the player. Well done to Norwich for getting in there early and being an attractive option.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Billy Gilmour has gone on a season long loan at Norwich. Good business for all concerned, including the player. Well done to Norwich for getting in there early and being an attractive option.
		
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Yes that will do him good.
I hate seeing young talented players warming the benches of big clubs.
They are better off playing every week.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Billy Gilmour has gone on a season long loan at Norwich. Good business for all concerned, including the player. Well done to Norwich for getting in there early and being an attractive option.
		
Click to expand...

Well done Norwich, would have taken him but the fact it's only a loan with no permanent wouldn't suit. Class player 

One for the fantasy football that


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## need_my_wedge (Jul 2, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Your daily reminder that...




ITS COMING HOME
		
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Maybe not.....  that's unbelievable.......


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## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Maybe not.....  that's unbelievable.......
View attachment 37347

Click to expand...

As we've discussed, that rivalry is very one-sided and I don't think the Germanys dislike us as much as we dislike them. And I certainly wouldn't expect bias from officials in a Euros Quarter Final.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 2, 2021)

Just read the summary for Belgium Italy, Belgium will be without Eden Hazard and KB . Having said that they were quite impressive in their first game without either, but Italy are a different level. 
I don’t know who I want to support, the Italian side is quite interesting- more so than previous sides. But Belgium have a way about them I like ..


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## larmen (Jul 2, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Maybe not.....  that's unbelievable.......
View attachment 37347

Click to expand...

Germany has 3 really good referees, Graefe, Aytekin and Brych. I would take any decision of them, and I wouldn't try to search the contact either.
The way Ukraine dived against Sweden, they won't get many decisions their way if they try it again.

Only German referee I absolutely object to is Zwayer. He shouldn't even be allowed to clean toilets in any football stadium for life.


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## 4LEX (Jul 2, 2021)

I think Belgium are great value tonight. Hazard and KDB weren't fit in the games they played anyway and both were poor bar a great finish from KDB. Italy started the tournament strong but were sluggish against Wales and didn't look great against Austria.

Belgium do have an aging defence that Italy will look to expose but Lukaku given service has the potential to take Italy apart.


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## Beezerk (Jul 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As we've discussed, that rivalry is very one-sided and I don't think the Germanys dislike us as much as we dislike them. And I certainly wouldn't expect bias from officials in a Euros Quarter Final.
		
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We should be fine as long as England players don't mention ze var  👀


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## harpo_72 (Jul 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I think Belgium are great value tonight. Hazard and KDB weren't fit in the games they played anyway and both were poor bar a great finish from KDB. Italy started the tournament strong but were sluggish against Wales and didn't look great against Austria.

Belgium do have an aging defence that Italy will look to expose but Lukaku given service has the potential to take Italy apart.
		
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Here’s hoping 🤞


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## Tashyboy (Jul 2, 2021)

when England won the World Cup in 66, the first team to defeat England aft er that comp were the Scots. It has been ranked as one of there finest victories. And rightly so.
If and that’s a massive if, England win the Euros, how long will England fans have to wait til the Scottish fans remind us that they were the only team in the comp that managed to beat England 0-0 😉


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## Tashyboy (Jul 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I think Belgium are great value tonight. Hazard and KDB weren't fit in the games they played anyway and both were poor bar a great finish from KDB. Italy started the tournament strong but were sluggish against Wales and didn't look great against Austria.

Belgium do have an aging defence that Italy will look to expose but Lukaku given service has the potential to take Italy apart.
		
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As much as KDB was nowhere near his best in the last game, I thought Belgium were very poor when he went off. That said, i Hope tonight’s game as a neutral is a stonker.


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## nickjdavis (Jul 2, 2021)

Spain v Switzerland is a prime example of why we cannot be complacent tomorrow night.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

joke of a red card that lol, there again it is the English officials so no real surprise


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2021)

Disagree. It's reckless and an ankle snapper. They want rid of those sorts of tackles. If you go off your feet like that now then you are in trouble, players know this.


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2021)

I thought it was a good tackle.
I was stunned when the red card came out and even more stunned when it wasn't overturned.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Disagree. It's reckless and an ankle snapper. They want rid of those sorts of tackles. If you go off your feet like that now then you are in trouble, players know this.
		
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all about perspective, we clearly see it so differently

he wins the ball and the other player who is the one who is late then runs into him, he wasnt high studs werent showing wasnt out of control and he didnt get close to snapping his ankle!

they want the game sanitised beyond belief, may as well just make it a no contact sport lol


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## anotherdouble (Jul 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			I thought it was a good tackle.
I was stunned when the red card came out *and even more stunned when it wasn't overturned. *

Click to expand...


English var as well. Does it not make sense to have a different nationality to monitor the screen


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## BiMGuy (Jul 2, 2021)

I do think that red was a bit harsh. Although I can see why it was given. 

Just to clear something up. Whether a player wins the ball or not is completely irrelevant and has been for about 30 years.


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## larmen (Jul 2, 2021)

I don’t want to see the tackle. Without being graphic,  how does jet compare to Sweden v Ukraine?


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## BiMGuy (Jul 2, 2021)

larmen said:



			I don’t want to see the tackle. Without being graphic,  how does jet compare to Sweden v Ukraine?
		
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Not even close to being as bad. 

The Spain player went down like his leg had been snapped. Which didn't help.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			all about perspective, we clearly see it so differently

he wins the ball and the other player who is the one who is late then runs into him, he wasnt high studs werent showing wasnt out of control and he didnt get close to snapping his ankle!

they want the game sanitised beyond belief, may as well just make it a no contact sport lol
		
Click to expand...

The reality is though that in modern football that type of challenge is going to get you into trouble. It was acceptable in the past, it isn't now.

It's still a contact sport but you need to stay on your feet.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The reality is though that in modern football that type of challenge is going to get you into trouble. It was acceptable in the past, it isn't now.

It's still a contact sport but you need to stay on your feet.
		
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why though, why should it get you in trouble? which laws is it breaking? its not dangerous and its not out of control at all, no studs showing, its at ground level so not high, it is not automatically a foul for not being on your feet is it or did i miss that being intrduced?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2021)

larmen said:



			I don’t want to see the tackle. Without being graphic,  how does jet compare to Sweden v Ukraine?
		
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It's not graphic. My wording wasn't quite right. It had the potential to be bad but it wasn't in the end. It ended up being clumsy. The ref goes off it being reckless though I suspect.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

larmen said:



			I don’t want to see the tackle. Without being graphic,  how does jet compare to Sweden v Ukraine?
		
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lololololol


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## backwoodsman (Jul 2, 2021)

Question. Spain have 11 men, Switzerland have 10. What happens if it goes to the 11th penalty??


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## larmen (Jul 2, 2021)

backwoodsman said:



			Question. Spain have 11 men, Switzerland have 10. What happens if it goes to the 11th penalty??
		
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They recycle through the list and Spain doesn’t have to use their weakest player.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

backwoodsman said:



			Question. Spain have 11 men, Switzerland have 10. What happens if it goes to the 11th penalty??
		
Click to expand...

Both go to the start of their list again, Spain get to sit a player out


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			why though, why should it get you in trouble? which laws is it breaking? its not dangerous and its not out of control at all, no studs showing, its at ground level so not high, it is not automatically a foul for not being on your feet is it or did i miss that being intrduced?
		
Click to expand...

Now there I do disagree. Once you are sliding in you are out of control. His legs trap the Spanish players leg which brings in the reckless. 

I'm not saying being off your feet = a foul but the reality is you are potentially out of control and refs don't like that anymore. It increases the chance of a red so don't do it. Players need to engage their brains before making those challenges now. It's the same as don't swing your arms when you jump.


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## backwoodsman (Jul 2, 2021)

larmen said:



			They recycle through the list and Spain doesn’t have to use their weakest player.
		
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fundy said:



			Both go to the start of their list again, Spain get to sit a player out
		
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Ta.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Now there I do disagree. Once you are sliding in you are out of control. His legs trap the Spanish players leg which brings in the reckless. 

I'm not saying being off your feet = a foul but the reality is you are potentially out of control and refs don't like that anymore. It increases the chance of a red so don't do it. Players need to engage their brains before making those challenges now. It's the same as don't swing your arms when you jump.
		
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well we'll never agree so ill leave it there


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2021)

So desperate for Switzerland to win this one.
So happy Busquets missed, he's a horrid player.


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## Dando (Jul 2, 2021)

Are these the worlds crappest penalties


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## Dando (Jul 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			So desperate for Switzerland to win this one.
So happy Busquets missed, he's a horrid player.
		
Click to expand...

He’s the football equivalent of Patrick reed


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

what a car crash of a shoot out


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

Dando said:



			He’s the football equivalent of Patrick reed
		
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think youll find they left Ramos at home


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## IainP (Jul 2, 2021)

Hope it's the last shoot out of this round. Prefer games settled within time


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## nickjdavis (Jul 2, 2021)

Switzerland go from taking 5 clinical penalties against France to hitting 3 of the worst you will see against Spain!!!


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## BiMGuy (Jul 2, 2021)

Awful penalties.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 2, 2021)

Just flipping hit it - all this stupid slow run up, look at the keeper rubbish. Trust yourself to hit a solid shot and find the net over 12 yards.


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Just flipping hit it - all this stupid slow run up, look at the keeper rubbish. Trust yourself to hit a solid shot and find the net over 12 yards.
		
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It really is that simple.


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## IainP (Jul 2, 2021)

How the player with the "broken leg" jumped up when the goal went in 🤣😂


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

IainP said:



			How the player with the "broken leg" jumped up when the goal went in 🤣😂
		
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forgot he was called Immobile


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## Dando (Jul 2, 2021)

Great goal but shocking defending


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 2, 2021)

What a strike! Superb 2nd for Italy!


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## Italian outcast (Jul 2, 2021)

=


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 2, 2021)

😂😂 Game back on!


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## pokerjoke (Jul 2, 2021)

Superb football from Italy 
However the antics,diving and hounding the referee is just winding me up.
Come on Belgium who are now starting to look tired.
The penalty might just give them the spark they need.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

some first half that, soft soft penalty but makes for a good second half


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## larmen (Jul 2, 2021)

Is anyone else worried that we might have a golden boot winner who scored 3 penalties in the group stage?

I guess it comes down to Lukaku or Sterling to do something about it.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

larmen said:



			Is anyone else worried that we might have a golden boot winner who scored 3 penalties in the group stage?

I guess it comes down to Lukaku or Sterling to do something about it.
		
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Schick every chance


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## GreiginFife (Jul 2, 2021)

This is an incredibly talented Italian side. 

Actually decent to watch and not just a defensive masterclass.


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 2, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			This is an incredibly talented Italian side.

Actually decent to watch and not just a defensive masterclass.
		
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Just a shame about all the diving, cheating and surrounding the referee. 

And yes, I accept that they aren't the only ones but watching them tonight is really winding me up.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 2, 2021)

I really like the look of Insigne...love a short, stocky, low centre of gravity, quality footballer.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			This is an incredibly talented Italian side.

Actually decent to watch and not just a defensive masterclass.
		
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This is more like the Italian team from the group stages, I'm pleased to say, not the team from the first knockout match. They look a proper team, a pleasure to watch.


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## paddyc (Jul 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I really like the look of Insigne...love a short, stocky, low centre of gravity, quality footballer.
		
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Please dont say you loved Maradona!


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## GreiginFife (Jul 2, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I really like the look of Insigne...love a short, stocky, low centre of gravity, quality footballer.
		
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And a handsome bugger to boot


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## AmandaJR (Jul 2, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Please dont say you loved Maradona!
		
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Every rule has an exception!


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## paddyc (Jul 2, 2021)

This Italian  team is great to watch. Mancini  has them well drilled. Thought the Belgians would be the team to beat but I've changed my mind.


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## IanM (Jul 2, 2021)

Some game this.    Worthy of the final and more


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## IainP (Jul 2, 2021)

In this game, when the Italian's play keep ball it seems with purpose, and often an outcome (contrast to England). Combined with their high press with energy, impressive. That said this would have been a good semi-final,  Belgium still in it.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 2, 2021)

KD, looks shattered.. but subs have energised them .. incredible game


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2021)

I'm chatting to my son about how the only weakness in the Italian side is the striker, Immobile. As he has gone off I've just realised I have him in my fantasy side still 🙄😭. What a muppet (me)


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## Tashyboy (Jul 2, 2021)

There’s one or two suprised at how the Italians are playing but the most popular score on the prediction league is 2-1 to Italy. 😳
Thats jinxed that then.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2021)

Anyone expect Jeremy Doku to be still starting for Antwerp in September? His agents phone must be red hot. He has had a great game, very exciting to watch.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 2, 2021)

Little bit of conning the ref here.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

Italians doing Italian things here lol

Ref falling for it all


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2021)

The Italians, absolutely pathetic. 
Not even a foul. 
Embarrassing.


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 2, 2021)

This ref is terrible. He's been far too quick with his whistle throughout and seems to be falling for all the falling over that refs were rightly letting go earlier in the tournament. 

And I can't believe he's buying all these "injuries" that the Italian players are claiming to have. Giving a free kick to the keeper for jumping in to his own defender is poor. He certainly won't be getting another game in the tournament.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

2 more italians been shot lol


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 2, 2021)

It needs calling out for what it is - cheating. The commentator saying that "it's part of the game" is excusing players cheating. It's not "dark arts" or "clever play", it's blatant cheating.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			It needs calling out for what it is - cheating. The commentator saying that "it's part of the game" is excusing players cheating.
		
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But it’s the ref who has to do it. 
The point is it is deemed acceptable .. but Spain next


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			This ref is terrible. He's been far too quick with his whistle throughout and seems to be falling for all the falling over that refs were rightly letting go earlier in the tournament.

And I can't believe he's buying all these "injuries" that the Italian players are claiming to have. Giving a free kick to the keeper for jumping in to his own defender is poor. He certainly won't be getting another game in the tournament.
		
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He is really poor - has no control in the game and allowed the Italians to get away with all the tricks - his watch also doesn’t seem to work , only 5 mins of added time when the player was down for at least 6 mins alone


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2021)

I don't like Spain, but I hope they give these horrible cheats an absolute battering.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			I don't like Spain, but I hope they give these horrible cheats an absolute battering.
		
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yeah you wont see any of that from the Spaniards


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 2, 2021)

Italy, best team in the comp so far, so why do I dislike them so much!! Loads of talent, superb workrate, passion etc, but why the diving and cheating and rolling around!


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 2, 2021)

IanM said:



			Some game this.    Worthy of the final and more
		
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Having only watched the second half the abiding memory will be that it showcased almost everything that spoils the modern game in terms of cheating & time wasting.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 2, 2021)

Spain v Italy will be a who can fall over the best competition.


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			yeah you wont see any of that from the Spaniards 

Click to expand...

I get that, but this lot seem to take it to a whole new level.
It'll be a horrible watch.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 2, 2021)

Italians to be all in isolation and have to forfeit the next game after those celebrations


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			yeah you wont see any of that from the Spaniards 

Click to expand...

What do you reckon, ball in play for about 20 minutes in the semi?


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			What do you reckon, ball in play for about 2o minutes in the sei?
		
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not even i wouldnt have thought


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Having only watched the second half the abiding memory will be that it showcased almost everything that spoils the modern game in terms of cheating & time wasting.
		
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watch the first half highlights, about as good as 45 mins of neutral footie gets


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			What do you reckon, ball in play for about* 2o minutes in the sei?*

Click to expand...

Ooh, you been on the pop tonight?


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## BiMGuy (Jul 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			I get that, but this lot seem to take it to a whole new level.
It'll be a horrible watch.
		
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Not quite as bad as Portugal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2021)

Portugal have been the kings of the con and diving recently


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## Italian outcast (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir but..Sir .but.. the bad men wasted time at the end


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 2, 2021)

Italian outcast said:



			Sir but..Sir .but.. the bad men *wasted time at the end* 

Click to expand...

Not just at the end. They were at it throughout.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2021)

Italian outcast said:



			Sir but..Sir .but.. the bad men wasted time at the end 

Click to expand...

Don’t you mean “throughout the game”


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## larmen (Jul 2, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Spain v Italy will be a who can fall over the best competition.
		
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Isn’t there a stats for net playing time? If not, there should be. If it’s under 60 minutes both teams forfeit the next round.

Saying that, tomorrow we got a game of divers versus crampers in Rome, wonder how much football is going to happen there ;-)


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## Tashyboy (Jul 2, 2021)

Italian outcast said:



			Sir but..Sir .but.. the bad men wasted time at the end 

Click to expand...

Hope that went down well in Italy. 👍


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 2, 2021)

Italy will take some beating.
Good game that.


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2021)

Spinazzola snapped his achilles on all accounts  shame for one of the best players in the tournament and so so painful


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411071776810012682


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 2, 2021)

Shock horror players cheat 😱
Let’s not pretend we don’t see players play acting & cheating every week in the premier league.


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 2, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Shock horror players cheat 😱
Let’s not pretend we don’t see players play acting & cheating every week in the premier league.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree that it's unfortunately an ugly part of the game and all clubs have players that do it week in week out, even down at League 2 level. But the fact that it happens every week in every league around the world shouldn't make it any more acceptable. I just wish that refs, but more importantly those that oversee the game, such as the FA, UEFA and FIFA, would clamp down on it and eradicate it from the game. The video of Immobile above should be an embarrassment to the player as he is clearly pretending to be injured to gain an advantage.


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## larmen (Jul 3, 2021)

This would be solved with net playing time. No point in rolling around for minutes. 2 roles, if the ref hasn’t blown his whistle at that point just get on with it.


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## Junior (Jul 3, 2021)

When players start surrounding the referee they should just start booking then.   It'll soon stop.

Always fancied Italy for the tournament......Great players and tactically really solid.  I get that all players dive, feign injury and try to get opponents sent off , but Italy seem to take it to another level.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Absolutely agree that it's unfortunately an ugly part of the game and all clubs have players that do it week in week out, even down at League 2 level. But the fact that it happens every week in every league around the world shouldn't make it any more acceptable. I just wish that refs, but more importantly those that oversee the game, such as the FA, UEFA and FIFA, would clamp down on it and eradicate it from the game. The video of Immobile above should be an embarrassment to the player as he is clearly pretending to be injured to gain an advantage.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree,how can Immobile not be embarrassed watching that back?
I suspect him & his team mates had a good laugh about it.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 3, 2021)

Great game last night in Germany, two quality sides playing stunning fitba.
Can't see any of the remaining teams beating Italy now.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Totally agree,how can Immobile not be embarrassed watching that back?
I suspect him & his team mates had a good laugh about it.
		
Click to expand...

It will probably serve as Immobile's "Rivaldo 2002" moment in that he will be ridiculed for it for years to come without doing any real harm to his remaining career. 

In terms of cheating, football has become rife with it, from the blatant diving right down to the throw in being taken 10, sometimes 20 yards from where it went out (like it or not it's gaining an advantage unfairly and incorrectly). Sadly, its not something that's going to be addressed anytime soon whilst the cesspool that is FIFA are running the show.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411071776810012682

Click to expand...

This is hilarious and should be put to one side .. but the refs should penalise them for simulation. I would use VAR to retrospectively card these players and then they could disqualify themselves for the next round. However the consequence could be the acting gets better and they have to come off the pitch .. if that is the case I would introduce a 2 minute introduction penalty. It’s a bit like rugby and arguing with the ref gets you another 10yard penalty..


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## BiMGuy (Jul 3, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			It will probably serve as Immobile's "Rivaldo 2002" moment in that he will be ridiculed for it for years to come without doing any real harm to his remaining career.

In terms of cheating, football has become rife with it, from the blatant diving right down to the throw in being taken 10, sometimes 20 yards from where it went out (like it or not it's gaining an advantage unfairly and incorrectly). Sadly, its not something that's going to be addressed anytime soon whilst the cesspool that is FIFA are running the show.
		
Click to expand...

None of that is new. Its been going on for as long as I can remember. 

At the start of the tournament mosr refs were not giving fouls every time a player fell over. They now seem to have gone back to doing just that.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 3, 2021)

Blue card sin bin for 15mins.
It would be great to see the faces of these players while their side concede goals because they are a man/ men down.
Use it for surrounding the ref, diving ,feigning injury to get an opponent booked.etc.
They would have to come back on then possibly a couple of goals down.
It would stop overnight imo.
The refs have proved over the years they are not capable of using existing cards so not sure why I think another might help, 
But I do think they wouldn’t need to use it much once the players got the message.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

One of the best ever referees was Pierre Luigi Collini. It’s no coincidence that he was brought up on Italian Antics. Something which has been rife in the prem league for the last few years. Highlighted  by empty stadiums and the girlie screaming of life ending tackles, Not.
Up to yet the referees have been excellent in this tournament. Last night I thought he had a poor game, he let players dictate what they thought was acceptable. If it’s cracked down on it won’t happen.
A strong ref is required for the final.


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## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Absolutely agree that it's unfortunately an ugly part of the game and all clubs have players that do it week in week out, even down at League 2 level. But the fact that it happens every week in every league around the world shouldn't make it any more acceptable. I just wish that refs, but more importantly those that oversee the game, such as the FA, UEFA and FIFA, would clamp down on it and eradicate it from the game. The video of Immobile above should be an embarrassment to the player as he is clearly pretending to be injured to gain an advantage.
		
Click to expand...


would help if you didnt have horror comms calling it "text book" too


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## davemc1 (Jul 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			One of the best ever referees was Pierre Luigi Collini. It’s no coincidence that he was brought up on Italian Antics. Something which has been rife in the prem league for the last few years. Highlighted  by empty stadiums and the girlie screaming of life ending tackles, Not.
Up to yet the referees have been excellent in this tournament. Last night I thought he had a poor game, he let players dictate what they thought was acceptable. If it’s cracked down on it won’t happen.
A strong ref is required for the final.
		
Click to expand...

That Collina was brilliant. He was that good they even brought him back from retirement for a Champions League Qualifier 🤦‍♂️😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			That Collina was brilliant. He was that good they even brought him back from retirement for a Champions League Qualifier 🤦‍♂️😉
		
Click to expand...

I think after he retired he took up a role within UEFA. I saw A clip of him at a train station where a fan jokingly offered him a bribe. Collins gave him his famous death stare 😆


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			That Collina was brilliant. He was that good they even brought him back from retirement for a Champions League Qualifier 🤦‍♂️😉
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t know what you was on about, just read it. Everton away at Villarreal 👍


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 3, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			None of that is new. Its been going on for as long as I can remember.

At the start of the tournament mosr refs were not giving fouls every time a player fell over. They now seem to have gone back to doing just that.
		
Click to expand...

Of course none of it is new, methods and frequency have changed though. This holding the face everytime they get brushed by a finger is a relatively recent fad. 

It depends on the ref to some extent, like everything (including discussing it here) interpretation is subjective. We don't have a Collina type ref anymore but some, like Antonio Lahoz, are quite decent.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			It will probably serve as Immobile's "Rivaldo 2002" moment in that he will be ridiculed for it for years to come without doing any real harm to his remaining career.

In terms of cheating, football has become rife with it, from the blatant diving right down to the throw in being taken 10, sometimes 20 yards from where it went out (like it or not it's gaining an advantage unfairly and incorrectly). Sadly, its not something that's going to be addressed anytime soon whilst the cesspool that is FIFA are running the show.
		
Click to expand...

Think one of the Spain players has one of “those moment”
Peaking through his fingers whilst acting dead


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411214771035295744


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411214771035295744

Click to expand...

Never a red 😂😂.

More like 5 years and an ankle tag.


----------



## Crazyface (Jul 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Think one of the Spain players has one of “those moment”
Peaking through his fingers whilst acting dead
		
Click to expand...

England have got to raise their game in this respect, by which I mean to emulate what the other teams are doing but being better at it. So many free kicks are gained by doing this and this could get them a free kick in a position to score.


----------



## Crazyface (Jul 3, 2021)

Or to disrupt the game when they are winning, hopefully.


----------



## stefanovic (Jul 3, 2021)

Things that will hinder England's progress:

Brexit.
The German officials.
The climate of Rome.
The food.
The language.
The hotel.
The lack of support.
The pitch.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 3, 2021)

He dosnt seem to pull out when he realises he’s not getting the ball.
Shocker.


----------



## larmen (Jul 3, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			Things that will hinder England's progress:

Brexit.
The German officials.
The climate of Rome.
The food.
The language.
The hotel.
The lack of support.
The pitch.
		
Click to expand...

All wrong. I thought we all agreed it’s Gareth Southgate and Harry Kane?


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Totally agree,how can Immobile not be embarrassed watching that back?
I suspect him & his team mates had a good laugh about it.
		
Click to expand...

He lost the ball in the final third and Belgium were allowed to break, Immobile went down like a sack of 💩 feigning a bad injury just to try and get the play stopped.
He's a cheating little 💩


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I didn’t know what you was on about, just read it. Everton away at Villarreal 👍
		
Click to expand...

Worst ref ever 😠😡


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## KenL (Jul 3, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			It’s not the draw which is the issue, it’s the gloating by some of the Scots, just as they have done since they beat England in 67, gloating on it for 54 years. It’s yesterday’s news. The danger is that if England win the tournament, or however far they go, there’ll be some reedy snivelling voices saying, “we’re as good as you.” They we’re on the night but they’re not Or they’d be in the Q/F’s.
		
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Agreed, Scottish people are a hypocritical lot. Gloating about a draw and winning a game over fifty years ago. Constant moaning about how the English media go on and on about England.


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## KenL (Jul 3, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			We should be fine as long as England players don't mention ze var  👀
		
Click to expand...

OMG. Move on.🙄


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 3, 2021)

KenL said:



			OMG. Move on.🙄
		
Click to expand...

I actually thought that was meant as word play based on "don't mention the war" but updated for the Video Assistant Referee or VAR.


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## KenL (Jul 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I actually thought that was meant as word play based on "don't mention the war" but updated for the Video Assistant Referee or VAR.
		
Click to expand...

I read it as the war, will apologise if I'm wrong. 😇


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 3, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He lost the ball in the final third and Belgium were allowed to break, Immobile went down like a sack of 💩 feigning a bad injury just to try and get the play stopped.
He's a cheating little 💩
		
Click to expand...

Very easy to stop this sort of thing.
Just let the medics come straight on without the refs permission.
So cuts out time wasting and playacting as there down to ten men, he must leave the pitch then.
Bonus is if someone is in real trouble they don’t have to wait for a ref who thinks he’s taking the pee.
Only stop the game if they get in the way of play.
But as the other team had the ball up the other end it won’t be a problem until his team gets the ball back.

The laws of the game have not really evolved enough for the way modern players cheat
It does need looking at.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He lost the ball in the final third and Belgium were allowed to break, Immobile went down like a sack of 💩 feigning a bad injury just to try and get the play stopped.
He's a cheating little 💩
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I know,I saw it.


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He lost the ball in the final third and Belgium were allowed to break, Immobile went down like a sack of 💩 feigning a bad injury just to try and get the play stopped.
He's a cheating little 💩
		
Click to expand...

The irony is he could be deemed off side and interfering with play … so first goal should be disallowed.. but remember Serie A generates lots of cash and The Belgian league .. well let’s not discuss that


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

KenL said:



			I read it as the war, will apologise if I'm wrong. 😇
		
Click to expand...

I did as well, but I won’t apologise either way as I let it pass on by without comment


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 3, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			The irony is he could be deemed off side and interfering with play … so first goal should be disallowed.. but remember Serie A generates lots of cash and The Belgian league .. well let’s not discuss that
		
Click to expand...

He did to an extent as the Belgian defender was remonstrating about his antics and then suddenly realised Italy were in a dangerous position...


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 3, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Great game last night in Germany, two quality sides playing stunning fitba.
Can't see any of the remaining teams beating Italy now.
		
Click to expand...





Maybe they won't beat Italy, but at least they are still there to give it their best shot.


----------



## Crazyface (Jul 3, 2021)

larmen said:



			All wrong. I thought we all agreed it’s Gareth Southgate and Harry Kane?
		
Click to expand...

Not wrong....in addition


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

stunning ball from Maehle for Denmarks 2nd, another whose enhanced his reputation massively in this tournament

Czechs had plenty of chances without looking like scoring, every chance they get picked off again 2nd half youd think


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 3, 2021)

Anyone been down the pub yet talking to the local drunk to get the team news?


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Anyone been down the pub yet talking to the local drunk to get the team news?
		
Click to expand...

Rumour I heard earlier on (not down the pub though) was that Sancho will start. No idea who for. Think I heard Saka was struggling with an injury.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			stunning ball from Maehle for Denmarks 2nd, another whose enhanced his reputation massively in this tournament

Czechs had plenty of chances without looking like scoring, every chance they get picked off again 2nd half youd think
		
Click to expand...

Maehle has been superb all tournament and that cross was world class. Reminds me very much of myself, as a right-footed left back. 😁


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Maehle has been superb all tournament and that cross was world class. Reminds me very much of myself, as a right-footed left back. 😁
		
Click to expand...


you probably shouldnt have posted a video of your exploits if you wanted comparing


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

Ooo game on


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

completely different game 2nd half and Schick pulls one back (we all had him for golden boot yeah  )


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## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			completely different game 2nd half and Schick pulls one back (we all had him for golden boot yeah  )
		
Click to expand...

Nah Mbappes gonna come good 😳


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Anyone been down the pub yet talking to the local drunk to get the team news?
		
Click to expand...

Rumour going round the last 10 mins that the game is being called off tonight because of a breakout of Covid in the Ukraine camp. Apparently there right back, Tikli Chestikov has it.


----------



## IainP (Jul 3, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Never a red 😂😂.

More like 5 years and an ankle tag.
		
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The way he lands on the guy also after taking him out, just to add a bit more pain. 😲


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Rumour going round the last 10 mins that the game is being called off tonight because of a breakout of Covid in the Ukraine camp. Apparently there right back, Tikli Chestikov has it.
		
Click to expand...

But it was given to him by ouja katchitov


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## 4LEX (Jul 3, 2021)

Italy are overrated, England wil go through them no problem. The way they were faking injuries and timewasting typical sh*thouse tactics. Belgium were really bad yet still should've had a goal or two more but for some shocking finishing.

England's tournament to lose now, can't have gone anymore to plan unless Czech Rep go through tonight. 

Love to see a 433 with Sancho coming in for Saka and Mount for Rice.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Italy are overrated, England wil go through them no problem. The way they were faking injuries and timewasting typical sh*thouse tactics. Belgium were really bad yet still should've had a goal or two more but for some shocking finishing.

England's tournament to lose now, can't have gone anymore to plan unless Czech Rep go through tonight.

Love to see a 433 with Sancho coming in for Saka and Mount for Rice.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree,the Italians are a tidy side.
I reckon they’d beat us tbh.
But yes they’re the masters of sh*thouse tactics.


----------



## BiMGuy (Jul 3, 2021)

Would be nice if this went to extra time and the Czechs win on pens.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2021)

Interesting line up. Feel for Saka, but interesting to see how Sancho does. Mount for Trippier is good to see.


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Some properly tired legs in the heat of Baku again in that game, half of them looked dead on their feet with 20 mins to go


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Interesting line up. Feel for Saka, but interesting to see how Sancho does. Mount for Trippier is good to see.
		
Click to expand...


Saka picked up an injury in training so was always going to miss out tonight


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

Hope Kane is a bit more dynamic and mount can find him. Good luck to Sancho


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Interesting line up. Feel for Saka, but interesting to see how Sancho does. Mount for Trippier is good to see.
		
Click to expand...

Yes like that line up and formation
Definitely need to see Sancho be attacking the full back
If he keeps passing backwards and sideways there’s no point starting him.
Should be a relatively easy win


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			But it was given to him by ouja katchitov
		
Click to expand...

Gives a rest to the centre forward, hada nakaov


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 3, 2021)

Flag has been tucked away out of sight so it can't bring any bad luck. Hoping to be putting it out front again in a few hours time.

I'm nervous...dogs sense it...COME ON ENGLAND.

PS All my recent FB memories are around England matches at tournaments...hope in a year's time I'll be looking back and smiling!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes like that line up and formation
Definitely need to see Sancho be attacking the full back
If he keeps passing backwards and sideways there’s no point starting him.
Should be a relatively easy win
		
Click to expand...

When it came out Saka had suffered a knock I thought he might start Grealish, so as you say it’ll be interesting to see how Sancho performs.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

Personally I think if Bobby Manc gets the Italian mentality right re playing football and not diving. Its there's to lose.
As much as ave not been impressed with England, they have a hell of a lot more to give. If they up there game. Then they really do ha r a good chance. But from what ave seen up to yet Iraly are playing at a better level..That could and should change.


----------



## Dando (Jul 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Nah Mbappes gonna come good 😳
		
Click to expand...

When?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

If we win the euros does Southgate then get some respect?
Feels like the vultures secretly want us to go out.


----------



## chrisd (Jul 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			If we win the euros does Southgate then get some respect?
Feels like the vultures secretly want us to go out.
		
Click to expand...


He's a Palace legend, will always have my respect


----------



## Slime (Jul 3, 2021)

A good solid start ............................ nice.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

Nice dive from Sterling 🤦‍♂️


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## Slime (Jul 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Nice dive from Sterling 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, absolutely pathetic .................... and he sadly got the decision!


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			If we win the euros does Southgate then get some respect?
Feels like the vultures secretly want us to go out.
		
Click to expand...

He's defo been better in this tournament.  

I didn't think he did anything at all at the previous world cup that deserved praise.

I will eat humble pie re Sterling. 15 goals in his last 20 caps.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			He's defo been better in this tournament. 

I didn't think he did anything at all at the previous world cup that deserved praise.

I will eat humble pie re Sterling. 15 goals in his last 20 caps.
		
Click to expand...

It affective,but this game is hard work.


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## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Sooner we score a second the better here, great start but got slower as the half has gone on. Ukraine definitely there for the taking and several of their side look leggy but still hold a threat on the counter, especially down Walkers side whos been exposed several times (and has little cover in front)

Even if they do get back into the game we should have way too much later on but rather we put it to bed, use the squad depth and then look to protect a couple of those on a yellow and conserve some energy


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Would like a second Kane goal so that @Orikoru gets a sweat too


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			If we win the euros does Southgate then get some respect?
Feels like the vultures secretly want us to go out.
		
Click to expand...

I couldn’t disagree more, up until this, game I have said we have not performed. Yes we have got results but not performed but to be English and secretly want us to go out. Well if they do they must be remainers.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I couldn’t disagree more, up until this, game I have said we have not performed. Yes we have got results but not performed but to be English and secretly want us to go out. Well if they do they must be remainers.
		
Click to expand...

Or scabs 🤷‍♂️


----------



## arnieboy (Jul 3, 2021)

It was a good thing that the ball hit Kane and ended up in the back of the net. 😉


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 3, 2021)

That’s what I want from Kane .
Stay on the shoulder and between the CBs.
Great work from Sterling.
Think Sancho just needs to take his man on a bit more he has the beating of him and get behind them.
Gone very slow again, but we walk through them when we up the pace.
Good save from Pickford again.


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			It was a good thing that the ball hit Kane and ended up in the back of the net. 😉
		
Click to expand...

I will be kind he hit the ball 🙂 long May that continue. Good first half, shepherded the danger man well. But yes would like to see another , Sancho has been good .. but honestly speaking they all have done really well this half 👍👍


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 3, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



View attachment 37354


Maybe they won't beat Italy, but at least they are still there to give it their best shot.
		
Click to expand...

Just checked 
Yes......... You still did not beat Scotland


----------



## Slime (Jul 3, 2021)

How sweet was that?


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Boom

should run riot now  time to think about a couple of the midfielders on a yellow, time for henderson and foden/grealish


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 3, 2021)

Great goal .
Brilliant ball in .


----------



## Slime (Jul 3, 2021)

This could get messy!


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Now @Orikoru has a sweat

Double boom. 1 more plse


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2021)

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## yandabrown (Jul 3, 2021)

Slime said:



View attachment 37361


How sweet was that?
		
Click to expand...

Harry beaux sweet 😀


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 3, 2021)

@Orikoru, start cleaning your clubs. @Captainron might be sweating now 😅


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2021)

Time for subs, protect the guys on yellow cards.


----------



## Captainron (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			Now @Orikoru has a sweat

Double boom. 1 more plse
		
Click to expand...

@Orikoru twitchy bun time


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Uniteds Sancho and Citys Kane looked excellent here so far


----------



## Captainron (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			Uniteds Sancho and Citys Kane looked excellent here so far 

Click to expand...

Don’t worry. Southgate will jerk Kane to keep him fresh for the semi. 🤣


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Don’t worry. Southgate will jerk Kane to keep him fresh for the semi. 🤣
		
Click to expand...


here comes captain Henderson


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 3, 2021)

Makes sense, would hate to lose Rice for the Semi.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

Should he now take Kane off?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			here comes captain Henderson 

Click to expand...

Leader & top clapper 😊


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Should he now take Kane off?
		
Click to expand...

Hell No!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Tell you what @Orikoru. If your bessie mate scores a hat trick before the end of the tournament - I will take host you on the Hotchkin and get you lunch!

You can then tell me about how good he is for 18 holes.....
		
Click to expand...

😂😂

Someone is getting worried


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Henderson leading from the front, utterly brilliant


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

What a guy 😂😂😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			Henderson leading from the front, utterly brilliant 

Click to expand...

That’s why he should be starting over Rice 👍👍


----------



## Slime (Jul 3, 2021)

So glad Henderson has finally got his goal.
Now he be taken off penalty taking duties.


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s why he should be starting over Rice 👍👍
		
Click to expand...

thought Rice was excellent today tbh, would be for Phillips IF either for me, well see what its like against the better sides


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s why he should be starting over Rice 👍👍
		
Click to expand...

Remember Phil… Plastic scouser,not English 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2021)

Dreamland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Orikoru, start cleaning your clubs. @Captainron might be sweating now 😅
		
Click to expand...

Captain Ron is well safe, Orikoru will get a nosebleed thinking about travelling that far north.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 3, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just checked
Yes......... You still did not beat Scotland

Click to expand...

Just checked; we didn't need to.


----------



## JamesR (Jul 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Remember Phil… Plastic scouser,not English 😉
		
Click to expand...

Henderson’s from the north east I believe.
A lot of players play for teams from other parts of the country.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 3, 2021)

Pickford Whiffs one! 😂😂😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just checked
Yes......... You still did not beat Scotland

Click to expand...

They didn’t need too , are you still checking the 66 years since England beat Germany fact


----------



## JamesR (Jul 3, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just checked
Yes......... You still did not beat Scotland

Click to expand...

Yep, England played like crap and the Scotch still couldn’t beat us 😉


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Henderson’s from the north east I believe.
A lot of players play for teams from other parts of the country.
		
Click to expand...

Wasn’t talking about Henderson 😬👍🏻


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

And breathe @Captainron


----------



## JamesR (Jul 3, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wasn’t talking about Henderson 😬👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

Well I’m not from Burnley, but support them.
Does that make me a plastic Claret?


----------



## Captainron (Jul 3, 2021)

@Orikoru your manager has done you there


----------



## SteveW86 (Jul 3, 2021)

Never been so upset to see Kane come off


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*WE* didn’t need too , are you still checking the 66 years since England beat Germany fact
		
Click to expand...

👍🏻👍🏻  Just bantz Phil 😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

Although the ref has not had a lot to do, he has done it well, up to yet.


----------



## upsidedown (Jul 3, 2021)

Captainron said:



@Orikoru your manager has done you there
		
Click to expand...

What was the bet?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			And breathe @Captainron 

Click to expand...

Booo Gareth ☹


----------



## IainP (Jul 3, 2021)

Kane enjoyed the space Ukraine gave him.👍
Did anyone think the game would be over with half hour to go?
Ref & team has been good for me.


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

IainP said:



			Kane enjoyed the space Ukraine gave him.👍
Did anyone think the game would be over with half hour to go?
Ref & team has been good for me.
		
Click to expand...


genuinely thought wed win easily and not my usual stance with england, the impact of 120 mins the other night on them not to be underestimated for me


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 3, 2021)

upsidedown said:



			What was the bet?
		
Click to expand...

If Kane got a hat-trick, Orikoru got to spend 4 hours in the woods around Woodhall Spa looking for Captainron's balls.


----------



## Captainron (Jul 3, 2021)

upsidedown said:



			What was the bet?
		
Click to expand...

If Kane got a hat trick I’d take @Orikoru on the Hotchkin and get him lunch. 

Got 2 more games to potentially do it


----------



## upsidedown (Jul 3, 2021)

Captainron said:



			If Kane got a hat trick I’d take @Orikoru on the Hotchkin and get him lunch. 

Got 2 more games to potentially do it
		
Click to expand...

😁👍👍


----------



## IainP (Jul 3, 2021)

Captainron said:



			If Kane got a hat trick I’d take @Orikoru on the Hotchkin and get him lunch. 

Got 2 more games to potentially do it
		
Click to expand...

This game was the chance.
Goalkeeper's finger tips to thank... 😁


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## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

Be interesting to see the world rankings after this tournament . Ave a feeling there will be some big changes going both up and down.


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## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Be interesting to see the world rankings after this tournament . Ave a feeling there will be some big changes going both up and down.
		
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does anyone really care about the rankings?


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 3, 2021)

Bellingham looks so composed. Even with Ukraine players around him he looks totally unflustered and with so much time to do what he wants. Can't see him staying at Dortmund for many more seasons. Expect him to be at a "big" club before too long.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

And England have gone from 2nd gear to 4th in one game a very very good performance indeed


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2021)

Brilliant, 57yrs old and I can’t remember ever being so relaxed watching England. 😂😂


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## Slime (Jul 3, 2021)

Well done Gareth Southgate.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

Good performance no dreadful time killing like the Italians.. well done England. 
Next game ..


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Brilliant, 57yrs old and I can’t remember ever being so relaxed watching England. 😂😂
		
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Not as old but yes that was stress free and they played well


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Bellingham looks so composed. Even with Ukraine players around him he looks totally unflustered and with so much time to do what he wants. Can't see him staying at Dortmund for many more seasons. Expect him to be at a "big" club before too long.
		
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How well do Dortmund recruit? They must have a heck of a positive transfer balance.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Bellingham looks so composed. Even with Ukraine players around him he looks totally unflustered and with so much time to do what he wants. Can't see him staying at Dortmund for many more seasons. Expect him to be at a "big" club before too long.
		
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He was sublime .. it’s the depth of the squad


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## Tashyboy (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			does anyone really care about the rankings?
		
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FIFA do, France and Belgium are top 2. With Portugal and Spain 5 and 6. Italy 7th. As it stands Brazil, England and Italy could be top 3 At the end of the tournament.


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## Piece (Jul 3, 2021)

Well that was tidy 😎


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## IainP (Jul 3, 2021)

IainP said:



			Lot of pre tourney chat about vulnerable and fragile defence. Clean sheet and a win against the bookies toughest group game - my glass is half full 👍

Obviously more games to come & hopefully tougher (predicted) challenges. Happy to reflect on those as & when...
		
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5 clean sheets. Glass still half full 🙂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Not as old but yes that was stress free and they played well
		
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Not even beating the Dutch 4-1 at Euro 96 was I this relaxed, never felt we were going to lose.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Brilliant, 57yrs old and I can’t remember ever being so relaxed watching England. 😂😂
		
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Bloody hell you’ve had a tough life


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 3, 2021)

Great team display.
Shaw MOM for me.
Bossed his side of the pitch and his crossing is a gift to a striker.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Bellingham looks so composed. Even with Ukraine players around him he looks totally unflustered and with so much time to do what he wants. Can't see him staying at Dortmund for many more seasons. Expect him to be at a "big" club before too long.
		
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Brilliant player - won’t be long before he leaves there , Man Utd will prob get him for a lot more than the £16mil they could have got him for last summer


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			FIFA do, France and Belgium are top 2. With Portugal and Spain 5 and 6. Italy 7th. As it stands Brazil, England and Italy could be top 3 At the end of the tournament.
		
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World Rankings in Football don’t really carry much weight , don’t have any relevance to anything in the same way other sports do


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## Slime (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Brilliant player - won’t be long before he leaves there , Man Utd will prob get him for a lot more than the £16mil they could have got him for last summer
		
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United couldn't have got him for £16M last summer ............................. because he chose Dortmund.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			United couldn't have got him for £16M last summer ............................. because he chose Dortmund.
		
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So they “could” have got him but he went to someone else , unless he had the stadium tour etc just for the giggle 🙄


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## pokerjoke (Jul 3, 2021)

Very solid performance really controlled it well.
Some good sensible substitutions from Gareth at the right times.
Fair play to Harry Kane as well,and what a volley it deserved the hatrick.
Roll on Wednesday


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How well do Dortmund recruit? They must have a heck of a positive transfer balance.
		
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I think that as a young player they can prove that they give them a chance. Sancho, Bellingham, Haaland are proof that if you're good enough then you'll get to play. For some players getting that chance must be a big draw rather than sitting on the bench at a bigger club.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not even beating the Dutch 4-1 at Euro 96 was I this relaxed, never felt we were going to lose.
		
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Did you touch the screen when Yuri Gellar did his bit ?? That was a cracking result because that Dutch side were annoying


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How well do Dortmund recruit? They must have a heck of a positive transfer balance.
		
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Players know that they will be given a chance if they are good enough regardless of age - they just look at the likes of Sancho , Haaland etc


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## Slime (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So they “could” have got him but he went to someone else , unless he had the stadium tour etc just for the giggle 🙄
		
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What are you talking about, 'just for the giggle'?
They tried to get him,no doubt about it, but *couldn't* get him as he opted for Dortmund.
It really is that simple!


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## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Players know that they will be given a chance if they are good enough regardless of age - they just look at the likes of Sancho , Haaland etc
		
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they also know if they succeed they will get a contract at Bayern or their pick of Europes top clubs! Massive draw for any potential world beater who doesnt want their way to first team football blocked


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Did you touch the screen when Yuri Gellar did his bit ?? That was a cracking result because that Dutch side were annoying
		
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😂😂 Forgot about him doing that. 😂😂


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## Slime (Jul 3, 2021)

I have to doff my cap at Southgate as he, Kane and Sterling have all proved me wrong.
Well done all three of them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			they also know if they succeed they will get a contract at Bayern or their pick of Europes top clubs! Massive draw for any potential world beater who doesnt want their way to first team football blocked
		
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Yep - it seems to be working very well for both the club and the players , at least now they are ensuring that they aren’t losing the players on a free, interesting to see what they do with Haaland as he has a clause next year for £69mil I think it is


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## D-S (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			World Rankings in Football don’t really carry much weight , don’t have any relevance to anything in the same way other sports do
		
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I thought they designated seeding for qualifying groups and as so are very important for some countries chances to get in to major tournaments.


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## Fade and Die (Jul 3, 2021)

Surprised how comfortable that was! We could of had 6 if we hadn’t taken our foot of the gas. Think Denmark will be a sterner test Wednesday….. Can’t wait! 🥳 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


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## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep - it seems to be working very well for both the club and the players , at least now they are ensuring that they aren’t losing the players on a free, interesting to see what they do with Haaland as he has a clause next year for £69mil I think it is
		
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Roman pays an exorbitant amount next month NAP

(edit its july, prob this month lol)


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## pauljames87 (Jul 3, 2021)

Great game. Controlled from the off 

Kane just needed that rubbish tap in to get his confidence back 

Good to see Henderson score, justified his place . I guess that's what Southgate wanted him for all along seeing out games rather than starting. Let's face it his two are rice and Phillips..he showed that by taking them off to protect their cards .. and they bossed the game 

I said Sancho would get a game soon as he signed for United but that takes the Mick lol 

Well played everyone 

Not a weak player in sight and plenty of talent got a rest


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Surprised how comfortable that was! We could of had 6 if we hadn’t taken our foot of the gas. Think Denmark will be a sterner test Wednesday….. Can’t wait! 🥳 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
		
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I think we saw a nice control and Denmark haven’t had the extra time games that the Ukrainian side have had so yes it’s going to be a stern test and they have played well to get there


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## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I think we saw a nice control and Denmark haven’t had the extra time games that the Ukrainian side have had so yes it’s going to be a stern test and they have played well to get there
		
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Think the Czechs showed that the Danes have plenty of weaknesses at the back tonight, we should have plenty enough for them at Wembley, just hope we dont sit too deep against them and invite them to play too much. Then bring on the Italians!!!!!


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 3, 2021)

Interesting stat just now on BBC. All four of the semi finalists played all three of their group games at home. Has the lack of travel around Europe given them an advantage?


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## larmen (Jul 3, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Surprised how comfortable that was! We could of had 6 if we hadn’t taken our foot of the gas. Think Denmark will be a sterner test Wednesday….. Can’t wait! 🥳 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
		
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I wouldn’t get blended by the 4 goals as Ukraine basically gave up after the 2nd one. Great win, but not a reason for overconfidence going forward.


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## fundy (Jul 3, 2021)

dont forget, UEFA the fans friends (the same UEFA who held a 1/4 final in Baku (again!!! Baku!!!)

Alex Red Retweeted
Millar_Colin's avatar
Colin Millar @Millar_Colin
5m
Current travel regulations mean travellers from #DEN to #ENG must quarantine for 10 days upon arrival. So no Denmark fans (other than UK residents) in semi-final or potential final.

Meanwhile, FIFA & UEFA officials, as well as all VIPs, have an exemption to allow them to attend.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			Think the Czechs showed that the Danes have plenty of weaknesses at the back tonight, we should have plenty enough for them at Wembley, just hope we dont sit too deep against them and invite them to play too much. Then bring on the Italians!!!!!
		
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Italians will miss spinzola or whatever his name is … he was hard to handle and that created space. The Belgians didn’t close down enough and KD was only half the player he really is .. but we will see as the Spanish need to find a striker .. will possibly be a pretty cynical game ☹️


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 3, 2021)

Has a team ever won a major tournament without scoring from outside the penalty area? Or all goals from within 8 yards of the goal?

(Kane's 1st and Henderson ruined the stat that all our goals had been scored from within the 6 yard box).


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 3, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Italians will miss spinzola or whatever his name is … he was hard to handle and that created space. The Belgians didn’t close down enough and KD was only half the player he really is .. but we will see as the Spanish need to find a striker .. will possibly be a pretty cynical game ☹️
		
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I was planning to watch the Olympic 10m diving competition but I think I'll give it a miss now. I'll just watch the Italy v Spain semi-final instead.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So they “could” have got him but he went to someone else , unless he had the stadium tour etc just for the giggle 🙄
		
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Here we go again🤦‍♂️
Right so he had the choice of a few clubs,UTD showed interest,but he opted for another club.

So if Liverpool show interest in a player but he opts for another club does that mean they “could have got him”?

Why always you Phil?? 🤷‍♂️


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I was planning to watch the Olympic 10m diving competition but I think I'll give it a miss now. I'll just watch the Italy v Spain semi-final instead.
		
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Yes I think you will see more technical variations


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## harpo_72 (Jul 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			dont forget, UEFA the fans friends (the same UEFA who held a 1/4 final in Baku (again!!! Baku!!!)

Alex Red Retweeted
Millar_Colin's avatar
Colin Millar @Millar_Colin
5m
Current travel regulations mean travellers from #DEN to #ENG must quarantine for 10 days upon arrival. So no Denmark fans (other than UK residents) in semi-final or potential final.

Meanwhile, FIFA & UEFA officials, as well as all VIPs, have an exemption to allow them to attend.
		
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Where is a ballsy jobsworth when you need one .. spread the rumour that the paperwork comes with a special biometric photo ID card .. 🙂


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## Fromtherough (Jul 4, 2021)

Like other Boro fan’s, I have a bit of a soft spot for Southgate. As a player and captain, he was phenomenal for us. He skippered us to our only major trophy and an unlikely, but amazing run to the UEFA cup final. He cut his management teeth with us, in what is remembered as a bit dour patch in our history. Truth be told he had a huge rebuilding job to do, not once but twice within his three year tenure. His transfer policy was rightly called into question (Afonso Alves anyone) numerous times. But his commitment, drive, ambition, passion and professionalism were never questioned.

Roll on 12 years later and that focus, desire and willingness to win is still evident. However, he has developed his managerial IQ significantly, which is now paying dividends. We’ve had world class players before. We’ve had golden generations. We’ve never had someone who can harness that individual ability to work for the team. It’s clear he’s got the squad to gel. The spirit is undeniable. Look at Henderson, Foden et al celebrating when they’re not on the pitch. Southgate’s approach is that a squad wins tournaments and every player contributes whether on the pitch or not. Not rocket science - but motivation isn’t difficult when boiled down, even for pampered millionaires.

I’ve heard loads about being on the right side of the draw. Playing easy games. We don’t control that and you can only beat what is in front of you. I reckon you could go back over most tournaments and identify similar perceived easy route to finals. However, Croatia and Germany are no push overs, especially in tournament football. Add Scotland playing in their World Cup final into the mix and I think a fairer picture emerges. 

Whatever the result in the next game (and hopefully the game after that) I think Southgate now deserves the opportunity to take this team forward. It feels like the right mix to deliver success in the near future.


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## Orikoru (Jul 4, 2021)

So, just checking in, do we all still think he's going to drop Kane?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			So, just checking in, do we all still think he's going to drop Kane? 

Click to expand...

Don’t think anyone wasn’t doubting Kane,but you’ve got to admit he didn’t look great.
But the other strikers are no where near his level.
He should be full of confidence now.


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## Hobbit (Jul 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			So, just checking in, do we all still think he's going to drop Kane? 

Click to expand...

And how many still doubt Southgate? It’s amazing how many armchair experts decry him, yet many of the retired ex-pro’s really rate him highly. The results over the last 4 years suggest he’s the man for the job.


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## fundy (Jul 4, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			And how many still doubt Southgate? It’s amazing how many armchair experts decry him, yet many of the retired ex-pro’s really rate him highly. The results over the last 4 years suggest he’s the man for the job.
		
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still not convinced personally, had plenty go his way and beaten very little in this competition so far, but as im not an ex pro ill keep my opinion to myself 

my judgement is very odds and stats based so wont align with those who want to celebrate on a very small sample size of games

we are allowed different opinions still I assume?


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## Hobbit (Jul 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			still not convinced personally, had plenty go his way and beaten very little in this competition so far, but as im not an ex pro ill keep my opinion to myself 

my judgement is very odds and stats based so wont align with those who want to celebrate on a very small sample size of games

we are allowed different opinions still I assume?
		
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Of course. Stats based, they’re 4th in the ranking. I’d hazard a guess that ranking wasn’t plucked out of thin air.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			So, just checking in, do we all still think he's going to drop Kane? 

Click to expand...

His best performance to date .. and there was movement etc .. but let’s wind it back here and get some perspective. That Ukrainian side had been through 2 tough games, with extra time. They don’t have the depth we do .. we should have beaten them. I am glad we did and I am glad we saw Sancho. I don’t think you can say anything negative about the new guys coming on because they played professionally.
There are 2 more games and they will not be easy and he won’t be contending with tired defenders ..


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## fundy (Jul 4, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Of course. Stats based, they’re 4th in the ranking. I’d hazard a guess that ranking wasn’t plucked out of thin air.
		
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was meaning more performance stats, expected goals etc, such a small sample size and comfortably outperforming in several areas and highly statistically likely to revert to mean over a larger sample

he has an excellent set of resources at his disposal, way better than most and is doing ok with them but personally think there is far more scope from that group of players. just my opinion though 

if fifa rankings are the way to judge a manager then hes doing great, just 3 better than him on all accounts


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## Tashyboy (Jul 4, 2021)

QUOTE="fundy, post: 2372395, member: 5509"]*does anyone really care about the rankings?*[/QUOTE] 🤔😉



fundy said:



			was meaning more performance stats, expected goals etc, such a small sample size and comfortably outperforming in several areas and highly statistically likely to revert to mean over a larger sample

he has an excellent set of resources at his disposal, way better than most and is doing ok with them but *personally think there is far more scope from that group of players. just my opinion though*

*if fifa rankings *are the way to judge a manager then hes doing great, just 3 better than him on all accounts

Click to expand...

Joking aside, I don’t think you are the only one that thinks there’s more  scope from those players. Up until yesterday I was unconvinced. I get the a wins a win. But yesterday was a massive improvement for me. What I have been impressed with is Southgates  handling of the squad. In a similar sense to Pep managing City’s squad it’s about getting the players to believe in the system, and the players obviously are.
What I find a bit odd is the England have had an easy run. England won there group. There knockout fixtures were determined on other teams results. Not England’s.


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## fundy (Jul 4, 2021)

Joking aside, I don’t think you are the only one that thinks there’s more  scope from those players. Up until yesterday I was unconvinced. I get the a wins a win. But yesterday was a massive improvement for me. What I have been impressed with is Southgates  handling of the squad. In a similar sense to Pep managing City’s squad it’s about getting the players to believe in the system, and the players obviously are.
What I find a bit odd is the England have had an easy run. England won there group. There knockout fixtures were determined on other teams results. Not England’s.[/QUOTE]


Hes clearly a very good man manager and well thought of by the squad and they are playing for him, thats not in doubt I dont think


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## pauljames87 (Jul 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			So, just checking in, do we all still think he's going to drop Kane? 

Click to expand...

Prob the same amount who think rice needed dropping despite bossing the Germany game .. whilst on a yellow (same as Phillips) both now have that wiped and will play the next game almost a shoe in


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## Billysboots (Jul 4, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			And how many still doubt Southgate? It’s amazing how many armchair experts decry him, yet many of the retired ex-pro’s really rate him highly. The results over the last 4 years suggest he’s the man for the job.
		
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I will always dislike his conservative approach, but there is no doubt it is paying dividends. England are finding a way to win games, but that doesn’t mean I find watching them entertaining because, for the most part, I don’t.

Whether he is the man for the job is not a matter for me. I’m not a football expert, merely a fan. But I know what I like. And Southgate’s conservative brand of football just isn’t it, I’m afraid.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 4, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			And how many still doubt Southgate? It’s amazing how many armchair experts decry him, yet many of the retired ex-pro’s really rate him highly. The results over the last 4 years suggest he’s the man for the job.
		
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No manager at any level is popular with everyone and let’s be honest the style of Football he plays is awful at times, tactically he maybe very good and let’s hope to takes us all the way.

He hasn’t won anything yet and hopefully this time next week he’ll be dishing out a huge serving of humble pie to his doubters.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Interesting stat just now on BBC. All four of the semi finalists played all three of their group games at home. Has the lack of travel around Europe given them an advantage?
		
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It’s a fair shout - not just the lack of travel but also having the backing of the home fans - in some ways moving the tournament around seems a good idea but it can really screw some teams over - Wales being the perfect example 



harpo_72 said:



			His best performance to date .. and there was movement etc .. but let’s wind it back here and get some perspective. That Ukrainian side had been through 2 tough games, with extra time. They don’t have the depth we do .. we should have beaten them. I am glad we did and I am glad we saw Sancho. I don’t think you can say anything negative about the new guys coming on because they played professionally.
There are 2 more games and they will not be easy and he won’t be contending with tired defenders ..
		
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Kane looked a far better player when he was forced higher up the pitch , bringing in Mount seemed to work a lot better and then bringing in Henderson got the forward energy a lot more instead of just containment - Southgate is going to have some interesting choices- can see one of Rice or Phillips dropping out for Henderson who added that extra drive


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## Slime (Jul 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Prob the same amount who think rice needed dropping despite bossing the Germany game .. whilst on a yellow (same as Phillips) both now have that wiped and will play the next game almost a shoe in
		
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Same for Harry Maguire.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 4, 2021)

Slime said:



			Same for Harry Maguire.
		
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Glad he didn't pick up that yellow, full team available 

Fodens has gone aswell but after this euros will he even get on the pitch? Sancho did well, grealish is super sub...foden didn't take his chance unfortunately even tho set up didn't suit


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## fundy (Jul 4, 2021)

Soccer fans in having different opinions shocker!!!!

Soccer fans rating & defending their clubs player above everyone else shocker!!!!! (except arsenal fans lol)


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## Billysboots (Jul 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			Soccer fans rating & defending their clubs player above everyone else shocker!!!!!
		
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I’ll never defend Marcus Rashford. Vastly overrated and, given his form (forget what the Opta stats tell you), very lucky to be anywhere near this squad.


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## fundy (Jul 4, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’ll never defend Marcus Rashford. Vastly overrated and, given his form (forget what the Opta stats tell you), very lucky to be anywhere near this squad.
		
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one player lol, that the best you can do 

can list 25+ players at Arsenal I wont defend currently haha   (yeah yeah i know that says more about the state of our squad lol)


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## Billysboots (Jul 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			one player lol, that the best you can do 

Click to expand...

Yep. 😇


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## Hobbit (Jul 5, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I will always dislike his conservative approach, but there is no doubt it is paying dividends. England are finding a way to win games, but that doesn’t mean I find watching them entertaining because, for the most part, I don’t.

Whether he is the man for the job is not a matter for me. I’m not a football expert, merely a fan. But I know what I like. And Southgate’s conservative brand of football just isn’t it, I’m afraid.
		
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pauldj42 said:



			No manager at any level is popular with everyone and let’s be honest the style of Football he plays is awful at times, tactically he maybe very good and let’s hope to takes us all the way.

He hasn’t won anything yet and hopefully this time next week he’ll be dishing out a huge serving of humble pie to his doubters.
		
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Agree with both of you but it’s a tough ask to play open, entertaining football and not concede. I didn’t relax till 3-0 up in the last match, even though the team and tactics doesn’t ship goals. Letting the opposition have the ball for lengthy periods but trying to keep them at arms length from the goal is dangerous, IMO. A team will score, and 1-0 will be enough to lose by.

As for “he’s hasn’t won anything yet,” he’s won plenty of matches that other teams, by definition, haven’t. The fact the win column is so high is good enough for me. A trophy would be icing on a pretty decent cake.


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## Junior (Jul 5, 2021)

The one thing that resonates with me is that this England team seem a really tight unit.  There is a real togetherness about the side that I've never seen in any England team.   Whether that's Southgate ,  or the relatively younger side , there are no prima donners and they play for the badge, no complaints or dramas.   Combine this with the obvious talent on show and it goes a long way.   Whether they beat Denmark or not, their attitude and drive is the best I've seen in an Eng side,  better than the team in Italia 90.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 5, 2021)

Junior said:



			The one thing that resonates with me is that this England team seem a really tight unit.  There is a real togetherness about the side that I've never seen in any England team.   Whether that's Southgate ,  or the relatively younger side , there are no prima donners and they play for the badge, no complaints or dramas.   Combine this with the obvious talent on show and it goes a long way.   Whether they beat Denmark or not, they're attitude and drive is the best I've seen in an Eng side,  better than the team in Italia 90.
		
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I think a lot has to do with southgate being under 21s manager 3 years before this means he got to work with some of the players before and built good relations ie Kane for example


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## Neilds (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			No manager at any level is popular with everyone and let’s be honest the style of Football he plays is awful at times, tactically he maybe very good and let’s hope to takes us all the way.

He hasn’t won anything yet and hopefully this time next week he’ll be dishing out a huge serving of humble pie to his doubters.
		
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And if we win, how many will look back and say " Yes, we may have won in 2020(21?) but we didn't play very nice football"


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## Tashyboy (Jul 5, 2021)

Read something this morning. England have got to 6 semi finals of major comps. Southgate has been manager for 2 of them. Every fan has different opinions of where we are but there are a few things that he has done that could of blown up in his face big time. One of those being, including taking Maguire and Henderson. They were not fully fit and was a gamble. It look like it has paid off.
Another in not taking TAA. There was massive discussion over whether he should go. 5 clean sheets says at the moment he has got his defensive options set up right. 
He has made tough decisions which he deserves credit for


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Read something this morning. England have got to 6 semi finals of major comps. Southgate has been manager for 2 of them. Every fan has different opinions of where we are but there are a few things that he has done that could of blown up in his face big time. One of those being, including taking Maguire and Henderson. They were not fully fit and was a gamble. It look like it has paid off.
Another in not taking TAA. There was massive discussion over whether he should go. 5 clean sheets says at the moment he has got his defensive options set up right.
He has made tough decisions which he deserves credit for
		
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Trent was injured, otherwise he would have been in.


I am just about ready to admit I was wrong about Southgate. I thought he was too weak to manage the English egos, but it seems that they respect him and he has got them working for each others. I thought his tactics were a bit too defensive and passive, but we have grown into the tournament nicely. I really respect his approach of trying not to peak too early, nobody has ever won a tournament in the group stages, you just need to get through with minimal effort. We did that. Then you need you step up and improve bit by bit as you go through, and we've been doing that as well so far. I still think we need to get past Denmark and into the final though for people to really be eating their humble pie and say he's been successful. If we go out now it will be another case of falling at the penultimate hurdle when the opportunity was right there. However if we get to the final I don't think anyone will hold it against him if we lose to Italy (or Spain).


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

Neilds said:



			And if we win, how many will look back and say " Yes, we may have won in 2020(21?) but we didn't play very nice football" 

Click to expand...

And how many years do we keep watching the same boring football, bar the odd match, if we don’t win anything?

Ask Utd fans if they were happy to keep Jose as he was winning stuff!


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## harpo_72 (Jul 5, 2021)

I don’t hold the manager 100% responsible for failure. I never have. The players have a responsibility on the pitch to give everything, this is at club and national level. They are paid .. it is their job, I know that sounds rather blunt and under appreciative .. but if you are paid to do something you do it to the best of your abilities to do otherwise indicates that your a lazy 💩. 
So for me the criticism should be aimed at the players. I have directed mine in that direction, but likewise I have praised good performances. 
Once the manager has selected the player, that player has an obligation to perform. 
I think Southgate has done a good job, and I think his predecessors were good as well .. for me their failure were the players and their lack of hunger.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			And how many years do we keep watching the same boring football, bar the odd match, if we don’t win anything?

Click to expand...

I posted something similar in the group stages. He is a pragmatic manager, fine when winning, not fine when losing. We don't sudddenly have to love the style simply because we are winning. We can admire and enjoy the results but we don't have to love the displays.

We have played two poor teams in the knock out stages, but disposed of them superbly. No argument there, far better than the group stage displays. If we have more of the same against the Danes then that will be great.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			And how many years do we keep watching the same boring football, bar the odd match, if we don’t win anything?

Click to expand...

I don’t think we will, I think we are seeing the beginning and from there on the England team will flourish.
The defensive weaknesses are being addressed. When they solidify and become strong our attacking prowess will be unleashed .. hello exciting football


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I don’t hold the manager 100% responsible for failure. I never have. The players have a responsibility on the pitch to give everything, this is at club and national level. They are paid .. it is their job, I know that sounds rather blunt and under appreciative .. but if you are paid to do something you do it to the best of your abilities to do otherwise indicates that your a lazy 💩.
So for me the criticism should be aimed at the players. I have directed mine in that direction, but likewise I have praised good performances.
Once the manager has selected the player, that player has an obligation to perform.
I think Southgate has done a good job, and I think his predecessors were good as well .. for me their failure were the players and their lack of hunger.
		
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Yes I would agree the players.
This squad of players are used to winning things and that makes a huge difference.
We havnt been under any pressure yet .that’s when we will see what they are made of.
If we go one down ,will he put Rashford on before Grealish.?
That’s when he will convince me.
He’s done everything right up to now and I really hope he carries on doing so.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I don’t think we will, I think we are seeing the beginning and from there on the England team will flourish.
The defensive weaknesses are being addressed. When they solidify and become strong our attacking prowess will be unleashed .. hello exciting football
		
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We’ve had these false dawns before though haven’t we?

Don’t get me wrong, obviously team selection, tactics etc, need to change depending on the opposition and if we win the Euros then Southgate’s plans will of been spot on, but it won’t mean we are suddenly an exciting team or our defence is sorted, some will always look at Pickford or Stones as accidents waiting to happen.


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## chrisd (Jul 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Read something this morning. England have got to 6 semi finals of major comps. Southgate has been manager for 2 of them. Every fan has different opinions of where we are but there are a few things that he has done that could of blown up in his face big time. One of those being, including taking Maguire and Henderson. They were not fully fit and was a gamble. It look like it has paid off.
Another in not taking TAA. There was massive discussion over whether he should go. 5 clean sheets says at the moment he has got his defensive options set up right.
He has made tough decisions which he deserves credit for
		
Click to expand...

It's not unusual to take a top player recovering from injury to a tournament if they are pretty sure to recover during it in the latter stages. From a live interview I saw TAA said he is still recovering and I'm sure could have played no part and we had just as good defenders available anyway. The main difference imo is that the tribal instinct of Man u, Liverpool,  City etc etc players not to get along together has disappeared now with Southgate's squad and the team spirit has built and built to the extent they now play more like a club team,  good management by Southgate !


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## Neilds (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ve had these false dawns before though haven’t we?

Don’t get me wrong, obviously team selection, tactics etc, need to change depending on the opposition and if we win the Euros then Southgate’s plans will of been spot on, but it won’t mean we are suddenly an exciting team or our defence is sorted, some will always look at Pickford or Stones as accidents waiting to happen.
		
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Blimey, some people haven't even got a glass, never mind it being half empty!!!  Try being a Rotherham United fan and then you know disappointment and false hope!  

It's been a crap year or 2 for us all, just enjoy a bit of success


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## Bdill93 (Jul 5, 2021)

We're in the Semi's, why are people being negative. Yeah I dont like all the decisions being made - but we havent conceeded or lost a game. We also just banged 4 past Ukraine....

Its coming home!


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## harpo_72 (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ve had these false dawns before though haven’t we?

Don’t get me wrong, obviously team selection, tactics etc, need to change depending on the opposition and if we win the Euros then Southgate’s plans will of been spot on, but it won’t mean we are suddenly an exciting team or our defence is sorted, some will always look at Pickford or Stones as accidents waiting to happen.
		
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Well the tests come against those teams that can attack and unlock defences. But this is a good start. Be positive on the defence and also see that a new requirement is being instilled into the selection of defenders. The Italians celebrate defensive achievements and we should to ..


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ve had these false dawns before though haven’t we?

Don’t get me wrong, obviously team selection, tactics etc, need to change depending on the opposition and if we win the Euros then Southgate’s plans will of been spot on, but it won’t mean we are suddenly an exciting team or our defence is sorted, some will always look at Pickford or Stones as accidents waiting to happen.
		
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I really think that’s a bit unfair on Pickford.
Yes he has made mistakes.
But can we really say keepers are immune to this.
Allison has made some howlers this year.
De Gea is famous for it.
Loris, Ederson. They have all done it.
But crucially Pickford has not done it in an England shirt.
He gets  very excited at times but imo is a great keeper.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I would agree the players.
This squad of players are used to winning things and that makes a huge difference.
We havnt been under any pressure yet .that’s when we will see what they are made of.
If we go one down ,will he put Rashford on before Grealish.?
That’s when he will convince me.
He’s done everything right up to now and I really hope he carries on doing so.
		
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I think he will put on the player who can make an impact to the game.
For me Rashford is good, he has fast feet,is quick and direct.. that is a nuisance to defences. Grealish is different he draws players in and frustrates with his control and creates gaps .. we need him on the pitch a bit more so the others understand what and where to move to, to really benefit from him ..


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Blimey, some people haven't even got a glass, never mind it being half empty!!!  Try being a Rotherham United fan and then you know disappointment and false hope! 

It's been a crap year or 2 for us all, just enjoy a bit of success

Click to expand...

You’re taking a couple of posts in isolation, I’ll support the Team regardless of whether I like the manager or not, but this is just a few blokes “chewing the fat” on a golf forum.

I’d suggest 99% of the people on here want England to win, but it doesn’t mean we can’t have an honest discussion along the way.

As for false hope and disappointment, Everton provide more than enough thanks.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I think he will put on the player who can make an impact to the game.
For me Rashford is good, he has fast feet,is quick and direct.. that is a nuisance to defences. Grealish is different he draws players in and frustrates with his control and creates gaps .. we need him on the pitch a bit more so the others understand what and where to move to, to really benefit from him ..
		
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Grealish has made two goals for Kane and has brought him back to life.
Something he needed badly as he has been crap really imo.
Rashford runs into blind alleys and won’t win us a game.
But he does take a good penalty , god forbid.
I would take Grealish any day of the two.


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I think he will put on the player who can make an impact to the game.
For me Rashford is good, he has fast feet,is quick and direct.. that is a nuisance to defences. Grealish is different he draws players in and frustrates with his control and creates gaps .. we need him on the pitch a bit more so the others understand what and where to move to, to really benefit from him ..
		
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Rashford is a very limited player. Has a nice trick or a nutmeg up his sleeve but end product few and far between. The best argument for bringing Grealish is on is how he gets the best out of other players, most notably Kane. Grealish and Kane link up really well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Well the tests come against those teams that can attack and unlock defences. But this is a good start. Be positive on the defence and also see that a new requirement is being instilled into the selection of defenders. The Italians celebrate defensive achievements and we should to ..
		
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clubchamp98 said:



			I really think that’s a bit unfair on Pickford.
Yes he has made mistakes.
But can we really say keepers are immune to this.
Allison has made some howlers this year.
De Gea is famous for it.
Loris, Ederson. They have all done it.
But crucially Pickford has not done it in an England shirt.
He gets  very excited at times but imo is a great keeper.
		
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I’ve fought Pickford’s corner on this numerous times, he’s England’s No 1 because he’s never let us down when representing his Country, same as Stones I believe, but in the 4-0 win the other night his mis-hit clearance was mentioned by the commentators on both BBC & ITV as well as a comment on here.

As for the other keepers you mention, they’re not English.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Grealish has made two goals for Kane and has brought him back to life.
Something he needed badly as he has been crap really imo.
Rashford runs into blind alleys and won’t win us a game.
But he does take a good penalty , god forbid.
I would take Grealish any day of the two.
		
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I agree Grealish has delivered some good stuff and Kane has benefited and woken up after some lacklustre performances.
The blind alley stuff is just something that can be resolved , his potential is there .
Let’s hope they can do the job in the allocated time, god knows how they miss penalties especially when you have an object you can hit at pace whilst some poor bloke tries to cover a big area ..


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Grealish has made two goals for Kane and has brought him back to life.
Something he needed badly as he has been crap really imo.
Rashford runs into blind alleys and won’t win us a game.
But he does take a good penalty , god forbid.
I would take Grealish any day of the two.
		
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1 goal for Kane and it’s unfair to compare him an Rashford, they have a different role.


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’ve fought Pickford’s corner on this numerous times, he’s England’s No 1 because he’s never let us down when representing his Country, same as Stones I believe, but in the 4-0 win the other night his mis-hit clearance was mentioned by the commentators on both BBC & ITV as well as a comment on here.

As for the other keepers you mention, they’re not English.

Click to expand...

Yeah Pickford did make a couple of errors in quick succession, but neither was punished. Hopefully he's got them all out of the way while we were 4-0 up! That's the time to make errors if you're going to. 😁


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’ve fought Pickford’s corner on this numerous times, he’s England’s No 1 because he’s never let us down when representing his Country, same as Stones I believe, but in the 4-0 win the other night his mis-hit clearance was mentioned by the commentators on both BBC & ITV as well as a comment on here.

As for the other keepers you mention, they’re not English.

Click to expand...

His Mishit  clearance was just that, he got the ball and we cleared it.
Not pretty but did the job.
So no complaints from me .
Not every clearance can be a 60 yard to Kanes foot.

I was merely suggesting not all keepers of international sides are immune from mistakes ,but they play in the PL


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah Pickford did make a couple of errors in quick succession, but neither was punished. Hopefully he's got them all out of the way while we were 4-0 up! That's the time to make errors if you're going to. 😁
		
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What about giving him credit for doing his job? He was on his toes, good positioning and snuffed out the danger when the midfield and defence let the attacker through?

No discussion about any outfield player mishitting a pass or giving away a throw in from a mishit.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			1 goal for Kane and it’s unfair to compare him an Rashford, they have a different role.
		
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That’s why I am comparing them!
I think Grealish brings much more to the team.
If we’re under the cosh and need speed on the counter then Rashford yes.
But if we have control of the game and trying to unlock a defence Grealish.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s why I am comparing them!
I think Grealish brings much more to the team.
If we’re under the cosh and need speed on the counter then Rashford yes.
But if we have control of the game and trying to unlock a defence Grealish.
		
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You want Rashford, if on the pitch, on the end of the unlocking as Grealish won’t get you the goals Rashford would, no good unlocking a defence if we don’t have an end product.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 5, 2021)

chrisd said:



			It's not unusual to take a top player recovering from injury to a tournament if they are pretty sure to recover during it in the latter stages. From a live interview I saw TAA said he is still recovering and I'm sure could have played no part and we had just as good defenders available anyway. The main difference imo is that the tribal instinct of Man u, Liverpool,  City etc etc players not to get along together has disappeared now with Southgate's squad and the team spirit has built and built to the extent they now play more like a club team,  good management by Southgate !
		
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The tribal nature around the England team will always be there - with fans and with players - mainly with fans , players it’s something that only happened during Sven era when both him and the media allowed the “over hyped culture to breed” - the team went and played in other stadiums - in manchester the Liverpool players were booed , in Liverpool the Manchester players were booed , then Chelsea arrived on the scene - a lot of the players were the “star players” in the top teams and we’re gaining success each year for the club 

Now at the successful clubs the English players aren’t what is seen as the stars - the English players in the main don’t get too over hyped. There is no more “golden generation” 

And right now the fans should feel positive about the Euros - everything has opened up in front of the team , the strong teams have tripped over themselves to allow a big gap that England should walk through to get to the final - it shouldn’t matter about the tactics etc because it’s tournament football , the analysis will happen after it finishes - England will soon have to face what it looks like being the strongest team in the comp - if they play Italy in the final it’s going to be the test- obviously both have to get past their respective opponents in the semi finals first, but if England do fall over against Denmark then questions would need to be asked. Until then go a long with the ride -


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I agree Grealish has delivered some good stuff and Kane has benefited and woken up after some lacklustre performances.
The blind alley stuff is just something that can be resolved , his potential is there .
Let’s hope they can do the job in the allocated time, god knows how they miss penalties especially when you have an object you can hit at pace whilst some poor bloke tries to cover a big area ..
		
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Potential is not good enough imo in the England team.
How long has he been playing for UTD.?
He’s gone backwards this season for whatever reason and the only battle he has won was with Boris.


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			What about giving him credit for doing his job? He was on his toes, good positioning and snuffed out the danger when the midfield and defence let the attacker through?

No discussion about any outfield player mishitting a pass or giving away a throw in from a mishit.

Click to expand...

Walker cocked up as well and got away with one. It's just a fact the goalie errors cost goals I'm afraid. As we've said before, Pickford has errors in the locker (more than most goalies over the last two years), but luckily he got a few out of the way without being punished, which is all you can ask for. You really don't need to take offence on his behalf EVERY time his name gets mentioned, he won't thank you for it.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You want Rashford, 

No I want Grealish.!

Click to expand...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Walker cocked up as well and got away with one. It's just a fact the goalie errors cost goals I'm afraid. As we've said before, Pickford has errors in the locker (more than most goalies over the last two years), but luckily he got a few out of the way without being punished, which is all you can ask for. You really don't need to take offence on his behalf EVERY time his name gets mentioned, he won't thank you for it. 

Click to expand...

Taking offence😂😂😂 Said time and time again Dean Henderson should be England’s No1.

The point is people like yourself seemingly desperate for him to let England down so you can post how you knew it would happen!


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Taking offence😂😂😂 Said time and time again Dean Henderson should be England’s No1.

The point is people like yourself seemingly desperate for him to let England down so you can post how you knew it would happen!

Click to expand...

Read it that way if you want. I don't want him to make mistakes, I just expect him to because we've seen it enough times - in fact I was saying it's a positive that he's got them out of the way at a time when it didn't cost us anything. Hopefully now his mistake quota for the tournament is used up.


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## Hobbit (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’ve fought Pickford’s corner on this numerous times, he’s England’s No 1 because he’s never let us down when representing his Country, same as Stones I believe, but in the 4-0 win the other night his mis-hit clearance was mentioned by the commentators on both BBC & ITV as well as a comment on here.

As for the other keepers you mention, they’re not English.

Click to expand...

I read the above with a wry smile but isn’t it a little ironic the lengths you go to defend Pickford, and in the next breath berate Southgate.

We’re splitting hairs though. I do dislike the laboured build ups from the back but it’s obviously in the team to play quickly too. Btw, I do think Pickford is more than good enough. Every single player makes the odd error, and to a large extent it’s also been splitting hairs on the full team selection. Swap a couple of players out and I don’t think it would affect the overall team performance much.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			I read the above with a wry smile but isn’t it a little ironic *the lengths you go to defend Pickford*, and in the next breath berate Southgate.

We’re splitting hairs though. I do dislike the laboured build ups from the back but it’s obviously in the team to play quickly too. Btw, I do think Pickford is more than good enough. Every single player makes the odd error, and to a large extent it’s also been splitting hairs on the full team selection. Swap a couple of players out and I don’t think it would affect the overall team performance much.
		
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Bit of a stretch when all I’ve said is he’s never let England down.


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Bit of a stretch when all I’ve said is he’s never let England down. 

Click to expand...

And you've only said it 35 times.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Potential is not good enough imo in the England team.
How long has he been playing for UTD.?
He’s gone backwards this season for whatever reason and the only battle he has won was with Boris.

Click to expand...

Yes but that could be said of a few of the players in the England squad. 
We have also been extolling the virtues of great management.. so we could say OGS hasn’t yet found a way of getting it out of Rashford, but he really needs to sort out the midfield and get a CDM in ..


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## harpo_72 (Jul 5, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			I read the above with a wry smile but isn’t it a little ironic the lengths you go to defend Pickford, and in the next breath berate Southgate.

We’re splitting hairs though. I do dislike the laboured build ups from the back but it’s obviously in the team to play quickly too. Btw, I do think Pickford is more than good enough. Every single player makes the odd error, and to a large extent it’s also been splitting hairs on the full team selection. Swap a couple of players out and I don’t think it would affect the overall team performance much.
		
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I have no questions of Pickford, he has done his job very well and he has communicated well apart from the one Walker let go but that’s once, no harm done and they have had a reminder.
But like you say Southgate can change players and still get a strong team that plays to the plan. But he also can change it up there is that much depth.
I actually enjoy it when Henderson comes on and I know Rice did a great job but to have a swap available is great. 
I think that is evident in a lot of the positions. I will though repeat what the BBC said about HM, when he is in the back 4 they are calm and he gives them a dimension that Mings or Stones don’t.. but they will in time. 
Luke Shaw has been brilliant and so long May it continue .. but the position is under a lot of competition! 
Pickford you would leave be as well.
Kane.. well everyone on here feels he is irreplaceable and if he has woken up and delivering then he is .. (I know I have been a detractor but all was justified) 
The rest do have a replacement who can do the job as well but might be dimensionally different.
If anything this is a very balanced England squad and fair play to the manager with his selections


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			And you've only said it 35 times. 

Click to expand...

About 5 times less than you’ve mentioned you’re expecting him to make a mistake.🤡


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			About 5 times less than you’ve mentioned you’re expecting him to make a mistake.🤡
		
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I was right though, he's made them now.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I was right though, he's made them now. 

Click to expand...

He’s let England down? 
High standards you have, pity you don’t apply them to Kane, he’s let us down more than Pickford.🤡


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s let England down?
High standards you have, pity you don’t apply them to Kane, he’s let us down more than Pickford.🤡
		
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Making a mistake isn't the same as letting the team down if it doesn't cost us anything does it? I already said above that he got away with them so it's all hunky dory. Just like Kane missing the one good chance he had in the group stage didn't cost us anything either. 

For the avoidance of doubt, Pickford has been one of our best players this tournament, and I'm not arguing anything contrary to that. I was just happy that the mistake I was expecting him to make didn't cost us anything. And you still thought you had to leap to his defence over that. Then again if I said the sky was blue you'd argue it was green. Let's just move on shall we?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Making a mistake isn't the same as letting the team down if it doesn't cost us anything does it? I already said above that he got away with them so it's all hunky dory. Just like Kane missing the one good chance he had in the group stage didn't cost us anything either.

For the avoidance of doubt, Pickford has been one of our best players this tournament, and I'm not arguing anything contrary to that. I was just happy that the mistake I was expecting him to make didn't cost us anything. And you still thought you had to leap to his defence over that. Then again if I said the sky was blue you'd argue it was green. Let's just move on shall we?
		
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Or let’s not and suggest a mishit is no more than that and you apply different rules to Pickford than you do anyone else.

Big of you to give him credit for this tournament when in the past you’ve delighted in taking the p!ss.


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Or let’s not and suggest a mishit is no more than that and you apply different rules to Pickford than you do anyone else.

Big of you to give him credit for this tournament when in the past you’ve delighted in taking the p!ss.
		
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Well, him starting became a moot point when all his competition were injured. But he has risen to the challenge well and proved a lot of people wrong, including me. I certainly rate him higher now than I did before the comp.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well, him starting became a moot point when all his competition were injured. But he has risen to the challenge well and proved a lot of people wrong, including me. I certainly rate him higher now than I did before the comp.
		
Click to expand...

He's been the best keeper in the tournament (so far).


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## stefanovic (Jul 5, 2021)

Haven't had much confidence in England since the golden generation, but at least we've reached the semi's this time.
Looking back over the managers, we've had Swedes, turnips, Italians, con men and fraudsters.
Only winner was Ramsay but he referred to the Argentine's as animals in those NPC days.
Southgate does appear to be a bit different.
Predict England win by one goal on the basis of more fire power.


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## chrisd (Jul 5, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			Haven't had much confidence in England since the golden generation, but at least we've reached the semi's this time.
Looking back over the managers, we've had Swedes, turnips, Italians, con men and fraudsters.
Only winner was Ramsay but he referred to the Argentine's as animals in those NPC days.
Southgate does appear to be a bit different.
Predict England win by one goal on the basis of more fire power.
		
Click to expand...

I'd like to point out that Ramsay wasn't well liked either, especially by the players who didn't make the team. Argentina would have had ALL of their players sent off in "that" game as far as I recall if todays rules existed then, they were absolute animals.


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## Sats (Jul 5, 2021)

The game the other day showed that we can play with panache, control and not just grind out 1-0 wins. A pleasure to watch, well done boys. Saying that I'd like Kyle Walker to tighten up as he was sloppy at times.


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2021)

Sats said:



			The game the other day showed that we can play with panache, control and not just grind out 1-0 wins. A pleasure to watch, well done boys. Saying that I'd like Kyle Walker to tighten up as he was sloppy at times.
		
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I think Trippier is the better right back now, but knowing how Southgate has been approaching things, I wouldn't be surprised if Walker got the nod because of Zinchenko drifting out to that side and Walker knowing him from training.


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## Billysboots (Jul 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			And how many years do we keep watching the same boring football, bar the odd match, if we don’t win anything?

Ask Utd fans if they were happy to keep Jose as he was winning stuff!
		
Click to expand...

You took the words right out of my mouth.

We had two managers back to back at United who, despite being proven winners, just didn’t understand what the fans wanted. The football played under LVG was absolutely turgid, and reached the point where I actually stopped going to games. When he got the boot and Mourinho arrived my heart sank even lower.

I would genuinely rather watch my club lose 1-0 playing attractive, attacking football that grinding out dismal 1-0 wins. Seriously. I pay to be entertained.

With tournament football I do get it’s not that simple. In the main, as most of you already know, England leave me stone cold. But, if they can have the odd fifteen minutes here and there where the flair players get me on the edge of my seat, before they then go all “Southgate” on me again, and win the Euros in that fashion, I may look back on this tournament with a smile on my face.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			You took the words right out of my mouth.

We had two managers back to back at United who, despite being proven winners, just didn’t understand what the fans wanted. The football played under LVG was absolutely turgid, and reached the point where I actually stopped going to games. When he got the boot and Mourinho arrived my heart sank even lower.

I would genuinely rather watch my club lose 1-0 playing attractive, attacking football that grinding out dismal 1-0 wins. Seriously. I pay to be entertained.

With tournament football I do get it’s not that simple. In the main, as most of you already know, England leave me stone cold. But, if they can have the odd fifteen minutes here and there where the flair players get me on the edge of my seat, before they then go all “Southgate” on me again, and win the Euros in that fashion, I may look back on this tournament with a smile on my face.
		
Click to expand...

Yes modern football is not a patch on years ago imo.
Now if you watch a game the two CBS are the main players and have more of the ball than anybody.
Ball retention at all costs even from forwards who are on the last defender turn around and back or square ball.
The odd patch of brilliance is good but most modern football is boring.


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## IainP (Jul 5, 2021)

[Unqualified armchair punditry alert]
From memory have all of England's open play goals come from the left? I wouldn't be surprised if Denmark aim to put things in place to stem that  - thought Germany did a decent job of that first half but couldn't keep it up (thankfully 😁). Whilst it was great watching Saka & Sancho I suspect we may need a few more goal chances to come from the right.
I've not seen all their games, but I think I heard it commented that they are one of the few teams to majority attack down the sides,  so may be a different test at the back also.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 5, 2021)

IainP said:



			[Unqualified armchair punditry alert]
From memory have all of England's open play goals come from the left? I wouldn't be surprised if Denmark aim to put things in place to stem that  - thought Germany did a decent job of that first half but couldn't keep it up (thankfully 😁). Whilst it was great watching Saka & Sancho I suspect we may need a few more goal chances to come from the right.
I've not seen all their games, but I think I heard it commented that they are one of the few teams to majority attack down the sides,  so may be a different test at the back also.
		
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But Sterling and Sancho were swapping sides, like the previous game with Sterling and Saka swapping… unless it’s Shaw .. then we need to look at Walker ? Or could you say we exploited a weak opposition right side ?


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## BiMGuy (Jul 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes modern football is not a patch on years ago imo.
Now if you watch a game the two CBS are the main players and have more of the ball than anybody.
Ball retention at all costs even from forwards who are on the last defender turn around and back or square ball.
The odd patch of brilliance is good but most modern football is boring.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing quit like good old lump it forward to the big lad up front. 

The general standard of football is much higher now. Players are technically more capable. Players are faster and fitter than they have ever been. 

It is very hard now to stand out as an exceptional player than at any other time. 

How well do you think the 92/93 Manchester United team would fare in the current Premier League?
We actually had a discussion about this in the pub a couple of weeks ago. 
More of us than not, thought they would likely be in a relegation battle.


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## Kellfire (Jul 5, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Nothing quit like good old lump it forward to the big lad up front. 

The general standard of football is much higher now. Players are technically more capable. Players are faster and fitter than they have ever been. 

It is very hard now to stand out as an exceptional player than at any other time. 

How well do you think the 92/93 Manchester United team would fare in the current Premier League?
We actually had a discussion about this in the pub a couple of weeks ago. 
More of us than not, thought they would likely be in a relegation battle.
		
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Cantona would get us top four on his own.


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## Kellfire (Jul 5, 2021)

On a serious note though, it’s only nostalgia that makes people think of the exciting times of older football the same way nostalgia works that way for everything. 

The 90s premier league era was slow paced rough housing a lot of the time for even the best teams in the league. No one remembers the boring draws with two so called top teams barely able to trap a pass on a mud bath pitch.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 5, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Cantona would get us top four on his own. 

Click to expand...

He'd be suspended for most of the season.


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## IainP (Jul 5, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			But Sterling and Sancho were swapping sides, like the previous game with Sterling and Saka swapping… unless it’s Shaw .. then we need to look at Walker ? Or could you say we exploited a weak opposition right side ?
		
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I spotted the switch in the last 10 mins of 1st half against Ukraine. I don't have the answers 😁  just rambling on the forum 😉


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## Billysboots (Jul 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes modern football is not a patch on years ago imo.
Now if you watch a game the two CBS are the main players and have more of the ball than anybody.
Ball retention at all costs even from forwards who are on the last defender turn around and back or square ball.
The odd patch of brilliance is good but most modern football is boring.
		
Click to expand...

And for all the plaudits, Pep is largely to blame for the possession based football we’re now so accustomed to.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Nothing quit like good old lump it forward to the big lad up front.

The general standard of football is much higher now. Players are technically more capable. Players are faster and fitter than they have ever been.

It is very hard now to stand out as an exceptional player than at any other time.

How well do you think the 92/93 Manchester United team would fare in the current Premier League?
We actually had a discussion about this in the pub a couple of weeks ago.
More of us than not, thought they would likely be in a relegation battle.
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking it was the midfield general that ran the game not the CBs.
If the team of 92 could tackle like they did then they would have no problems with the screaming Jessie’s of today.
Lumping it is just as bad as the CBS having it all the time.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 5, 2021)

IainP said:



			I spotted the switch in the last 10 mins of 1st half against Ukraine. I don't have the answers 😁  just rambling on the forum 😉
		
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Yeah it’s interesting though


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## BiMGuy (Jul 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I was thinking it was the midfield general that ran the game not the CBs.
If the team of 92 could tackle like they did then they would have no problems with the screaming Jessie’s of today.
Lumping it is just as bad as the CBS having it all the time.
		
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Even if they could tackle like they did. They would be too slow and knackered to get anywhere near.


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## IainP (Jul 5, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Yeah it’s interesting though
		
Click to expand...

I'd forgotten the recent record hasn't been good. Not sure if it gives any clues to Wednesday selection/formation though. 
I think Saka may receive the nod.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 6, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Even if they could tackle like they did. They would be too slow and knackered to get anywhere near.
		
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Possibly but a tackle from Souness or Keane slowed a few players down.
They might be faster and fitter but it dosnt make them better players imo.
Quite the opposite I think.
Nobody in the modern PL can hold a candle to Kenny Dalglish.
But it’s impossible to ever find out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412462013142405129
😂😂😂😂👏👏👏👏


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412462013142405129
😂😂😂😂👏👏👏👏
		
Click to expand...

Hilarious 😬


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 6, 2021)

Mrs Colch just got home, looked at the screen and said "Spain are going to win. They're wearing white and all four of the winning quarter finalists were wearing white". I think she's been swatting up football.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

Spanish keeper likes to wander about


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## paddyc (Jul 6, 2021)

Great to hear the England fans at Italy V Spain game giving it "Footballs coming home."


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## Fade and Die (Jul 6, 2021)

Great game this, also great turn out by the U.K. Spanish and Italian community’s.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412462013142405129
😂😂😂😂👏👏👏👏
		
Click to expand...

What a stupid journo ! And what a stupid phrase .. handled well


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## paddyc (Jul 6, 2021)

The Spanish keeper is losing the plot


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## Kellfire (Jul 6, 2021)

paddyc said:



			The Spanish keeper is losing the plot
		
Click to expand...

Italian.


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## Dando (Jul 6, 2021)

Rather than penalties they should have a “dive off” to settle this game


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 6, 2021)

Don't recognise these teams; when do the divers and the time wasters come on?


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

Spain might score a goal if they had a striker ..


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## IainP (Jul 6, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don't recognise these teams; when do the divers and the time wasters come on?
		
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72 minutes 😁


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## AmandaJR (Jul 6, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don't recognise these teams; when do the divers and the time wasters come on?
		
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Is it as simple as the first couple of cheaty tippy tumbles get ignored and sets the tone of the match?


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## BiMGuy (Jul 6, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don't recognise these teams; when do the divers and the time wasters come on?
		
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As soon as one of them scores, they will start. 

The Italians are already complaining about every decision.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			As soon as one of them scores, they will start.

The Italians are already complaining about every decision.
		
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Is it wrong of me to want to see varrati sent off ?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 6, 2021)

Refs having a good game


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 6, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Is it wrong of me to want to see varrati sent off ?
		
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That would depend on your reasons...


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			That would depend on your reasons... 

Click to expand...

Think he is a cynical dirty fouler .. otherwise he is a lovely boy.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 6, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Is it wrong of me to want to see varrati sent off ?
		
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Absolutely not


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## Italian outcast (Jul 6, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don't recognise these teams; when do the divers and the time wasters come on?
		
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Just need to go 1-0 up 
Then we can see the match out in a disciplined Professional manner


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

Crikey that Spanish keeper is a liability.. !


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## AmandaJR (Jul 6, 2021)

What is that ball all about? Looks like something you'd buy from the pound shop at the seaside!


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## IainP (Jul 6, 2021)

Italian outcast said:



			Just need to go 1-0 up
Then we can see the match out in a disciplined Professional manner 

Click to expand...

Here we go...😁


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 6, 2021)

30 mins of antics now 😂


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## Fade and Die (Jul 6, 2021)

Thought the keeper might have thrown a dive at it instead of watching it!😁


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## Italian outcast (Jul 6, 2021)

IainP said:



			Here we go...😁
		
Click to expand...

Here we go...😁, Here we go...😁


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Thought the keeper might have thrown a dive at it instead of watching it!😁
		
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It was only going one placed the defender had forced the position and narrowed the window.
The Spanish are brilliant in the mid but up top and in goal they are shocking


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## GreiginFife (Jul 6, 2021)

Excellent finish from Chiesa, who has been a superb player for Italy this Euros. 

Was past the keeper before he could even react. 

Spain would do really well if someone could actually put the ball in the net. Morata is not the answer.


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Excellent finish from Chiesa, who has been a superb player for Italy this Euros. 

Was past the keeper before he could even react. 

Spain would do really well if someone could actually put the ball in the net. Morata is not the answer.
		
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said early on was amazed chiesa wasnt in their starting line up, guy is top top class for me


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## GreiginFife (Jul 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			said early on was amazed chiesa wasnt in their starting line up, guy is top top class for me
		
Click to expand...

Better than Immobile for my money.


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Better than Immobile for my money.
		
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all the hype pre tournament was about Berardi who wasnt in the best front 3 for me

Immobile a bit hit and miss but can be excellent


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

Italy look like they could do with some fresh legs in the middle of the park here now


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

It’s almost like the Spanish don’t give a damn about their strikers and just pick some bloke from the bus stop


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 6, 2021)

Superb finish, quality goal.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Italy look like they could do with some fresh legs in the middle of the park here now
		
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Looks like they are doing just that. I think they know though that they don't need to contain Spain in the midfield as they are incapable of doing anything in the final third.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

So Pickford has 160 appearances and 6 mistakes .. tonight this Spanish keeper has had at least 3 howlers and spectated very well for the goal


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 6, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Better than Immobile for my money.
		
Click to expand...

Immobile's goal record for Italy is poor. Not just the ratio but look up who he has scored against. 

I may be extra bitter because I stupidly put him in my fantasy team thinking he had to come good at some stage as the rest of the team is so good. It was a decision that was equivalent to Homer consistently betting against the Harlem Globetrotters as "they had to lose at some point" 🙄


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

That was like rocking horse pooh!!!!


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## GreiginFife (Jul 6, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Excellent finish from Chiesa, who has been a superb player for Italy this Euros.

Was past the keeper before he could even react.

Spain would do really well if someone could actually put the ball in the net. *Morata is not the answer*.
		
Click to expand...

What do I know?


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## Beezerk (Jul 6, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Spain would do really well if someone could actually put the ball in the net. Morata is not the answer.
		
Click to expand...

There you go 🤣


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## Beezerk (Jul 6, 2021)

Blimey, keeper gave him the corner there, didn't close the space quick enough.


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

Game on then


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## GreiginFife (Jul 6, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Blimey, keeper gave him the corner there, didn't close the space quick enough.
		
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Not sure he expected the ball to get through to Morata. I didn't (but we have established I know feck all).


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## GreiginFife (Jul 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Immobile's goal record for Italy is poor. Not just the ratio but look up who he has scored against.

I may be extra bitter because I stupidly put him in my fantasy team thinking he had to come good at some stage as the rest of the team is so good. It was a decision that was equivalent to *Homer consistently betting against the Harlem Globetrotters as "they had to lose at some point*" 🙄
		
Click to expand...

High quality reference


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## Golfmmad (Jul 6, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			What do I know?
		
Click to expand...

Grrreat finish!!!


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## GreiginFife (Jul 6, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			Grrreat finish!!!
		
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Thought he was Spanish...


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## Orikoru (Jul 6, 2021)

Imagine being De Gea, watching this Simon bloke and thinking "am I really worse than this guy?? What the hell happened to my life?"


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Thought he was Spanish... 

Click to expand...

Think it hit him and the keeper was thrown by the ricochet


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 6, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Not sure he expected the ball to get through to Morata. I didn't (but we have established I know feck all).
		
Click to expand...

To be fair I'm with your original point. Morata is poor on this stage. Scoring one goal doesn't change that (I'm well aware he could score the winner now and I'll end up looking a plank 😆)


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## GreiginFife (Jul 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair I'm with your original point. Morata is poor on this stage. Scoring one goal doesn't change that (I'm well aware he could score the winner now and I'll end up looking a plank 😆)
		
Click to expand...

You can join my club


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## BiMGuy (Jul 6, 2021)

Italy look knackered.


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## IainP (Jul 6, 2021)

Same ref team today did England v Ukraine. They should do the final I think.


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## Beezerk (Jul 6, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Not sure he expected the ball to get through to Morata. I didn't (but we have established I know feck all).
		
Click to expand...

I've watched it again, I'd expect Pickford to have spotted the 1-2 and be at the strikers feet as he's about to shoot.
Maybe I'm being too harsh mind 😂


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Italy look knackered.
		
Click to expand...

They are going to look to have a lie down at every opportunity..


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

I think that was red myself


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 6, 2021)

Great 2nd, Morata, quality finish again.


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

Olmo been superb for Spain


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 6, 2021)

With how good Donnarumma has been for Italy in this tournament and how bad Simon has been for Spain are we all expecting Simon to be the hero if this goes to penalties?


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			With how good Donnarumma has been for Italy in this tournament and how bad Simon has been for Spain are we all expecting Simon to be the hero if this goes to penalties?
		
Click to expand...

That would be the irony of football


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## IainP (Jul 6, 2021)

Shame it's going to penalties. Has been a good game & have been trying not to let Murphy spoil it (talked a lot of gash IMO)


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## Italian outcast (Jul 6, 2021)

IainP said:



			Shame it's going to penalties. Has been a good game & have been trying not to let Murphy spoil it (talked a lot of gash IMO)
		
Click to expand...

Running in to my Match 4 viewing - highly inconvenient


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## BiMGuy (Jul 6, 2021)

Love a penalty shootout. When England aren't in one. 

I haven't seen too much tonight that would worry England should we beat Denmark.


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## Beezerk (Jul 6, 2021)

Good news for Spain, De Gae isn't going to miss one 😬


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			That would be the irony of football
		
Click to expand...

nah that would be Spain bringing on De Gea for the shootout


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## harpo_72 (Jul 6, 2021)

Italy is my bet


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## Kellfire (Jul 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Olmo been superb for Spain
		
Click to expand...

Hindsight innit.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 6, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			You can join my club 

Click to expand...

You see, we were right all along 😆


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## Orikoru (Jul 6, 2021)

Right, hands up who knew Morata was going to miss. 🙋🏻


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Right, hands up who knew Morata was going to miss. 🙋🏻
		
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guys got some stones for being prepared to take one with whats gone before!!!!


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## Orikoru (Jul 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			guys got some stones for being prepared to take one with whats gone before!!!!
		
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He honestly looked more nervous walking up than I've ever seen a player. You wouldn't think he was a striker from his body language.


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He honestly looked more nervous walking up than I've ever seen a player. You wouldn't think he was a striker from his body language.
		
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maybe he looked like a guy who had death threats from last time he missed?


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

on the plus side, the cast for pizza huts advert is looking good and thats before england play........


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## Tashyboy (Jul 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He honestly looked more nervous walking up than I've ever seen a player. You wouldn't think he was a striker from his body language.
		
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The Peter crouch show is interesting and fun, think it was Paul Merson that said “ the walk to take the penalty from the half way line is nerve wracking“.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 6, 2021)

Very poor pens from Spain.
Best footballing team in the tournament for me but toothless up front.
Italy don’t have a lot to worry us in the final if we get there.
Possibly pace up front but they have two elderly CBS.
We should have enough imo.
Ref was good stopped the diving and cheating dead by just playing on


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## 4LEX (Jul 6, 2021)

Gotta love Spain going out. All hype and no end product. If England had that many chances the game would've been done at half time. Vastly the better side and played for pens in extra time against Italian centrebacks with no pace and both over 35. Unbelievable. Morata what a choker, more hair gel than balls


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## Kellfire (Jul 6, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412533429967724553


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412533429967724553

Click to expand...

FGS Karen 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂


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## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

If you haven’t seen it yet, check out the Argentinian goalkeeper in the penalty shootout last night. Top level psyching out of opponents.


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## Junior (Jul 7, 2021)

Interesting game.......Italy just know-how to get over the line.     How good was the ref to keep the game flowing ???   Stood for non of the modern day antics of stopping play and diving.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

Junior said:



			Interesting game.......Italy just know-how to get over the line.     How good was the ref to keep the game flowing ???   Stood for non of the modern day antics of stopping play and diving.
		
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No dispute on how good he was, but I think they pointed out in commentary that he is a doctor; if so, how much of the confidence to let it flow will have come from knowing the likelihood of serious injury was slight because of that training?


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			No dispute on how good he was, but I think they pointed out in commentary that he is a doctor; if so, how much of the confidence to let it flow will have come from knowing the likelihood of serious injury was slight because of that training?
		
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Never trust a commentator, do your own research before posting; he’s apparently a doctor of law. 😳🙄🤬🤬


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## Bdill93 (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			If you haven’t seen it yet, check out the Argentinian goalkeeper in the penalty shootout last night. Top level psyching out of opponents.
		
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Martinez is an absolute beast of a keeper. Game changer for Villa!


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## Orikoru (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			If you haven’t seen it yet, check out the Argentinian goalkeeper in the penalty shootout last night. Top level psyching out of opponents.
		
Click to expand...

That's Martinez. Hard to believe that Arsenal had a world class goalie on their bench for nearly a decade and never realised.


----------



## larmen (Jul 7, 2021)

larmen said:



			Germany has 3 really good referees, Graefe, Aytekin and Brych. I would take any decision of them, and I wouldn't try to search the contact either.
The way Ukraine dived against Sweden, they won't get many decisions their way if they try it again.
		
Click to expand...




Junior said:



			Interesting game.......Italy just know-how to get over the line.     How good was the ref to keep the game flowing ???   Stood for non of the modern day antics of stopping play and diving.
		
Click to expand...

Looking at Twitter it seems that nearly all neutral viewers liked him. Italian and Spanish viewers complained about every time one of theirs was on the floor without a foul being given. Italians stopped, Spanish are still on about it.


It did look like Italy doesn't have the energy for 90 minutes without frequent interruption? That might be something to explode for England or Denmark in the final, if the Dutch referee is similar.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Never trust a commentator, do your own research before posting; he’s apparently a doctor of law. 😳🙄🤬🤬
		
Click to expand...

At least he would know if they have a leg to stand on.


----------



## Bdill93 (Jul 7, 2021)

Time to get behind the boys! How is it not 4pm already so I can leave work?!

ITS COMING HOME


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 7, 2021)

Just going to have 18 holes with a friend I havnt seen for years.
Get home curry and a pint.
Watch England beat Denmark.
Should be a great day, and the suns out now.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 7, 2021)

Watching it down the football club with the Sunday team lads for me. Lucky I work from home Thursdays, may be starting at half 10 tomorrow..


----------



## BiMGuy (Jul 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Time to get behind the boys! How is it not 4pm already so I can leave work?!

ITS COMING HOME
		
Click to expand...

At 4pm I'm taking my lads school football team to a tournament. Which, whilst it is taking my mind of the England game, its adding to my anxiety levels.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That's Martinez. Hard to believe that Arsenal had a world class goalie on their bench for nearly a decade and never realised. 

Click to expand...


Arsenal been clueless about keepers for a very long time but to imply a keeper who couldnt hold down a starting jersey out on loan to a championship club was world class is stretching it even for you lol


----------



## BiMGuy (Jul 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			Arsenal been clueless about keepers for a very long time but to imply a keeper who couldnt hold down a starting jersey out on loan to a championship club was world class is stretching it even for you lol
		
Click to expand...

He's a good keeper. World class though? 

Nope!


----------



## Hobbit (Jul 7, 2021)

It was great in the bars in the village last night, until the penalty shoot out didn’t go Spain’s way. The bar emptied as though someone had had a sneezing fit.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			Arsenal been clueless about keepers for a very long time but to imply a keeper who couldnt hold down a starting jersey out on loan to a championship club was world class is stretching it even for you lol
		
Click to expand...

He's turning out for Argentina, saving penalties, last season statistically was one of the top keepers in the Premier League as well. 'World Class' was a generous hyperbole of course, but he's not really far off it depending on how you define it.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 7, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			It was great in the bars in the village last night, until the penalty shoot out didn’t go Spain’s way. The bar emptied as though someone had had a sneezing fit.
		
Click to expand...

I think they did well considering they have an awful goalie, awful striker, were without Ramos for the first time in about 30 years, and most people had written them off.


----------



## Bdill93 (Jul 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			He's a good keeper. World class though?

Nope!
		
Click to expand...

Very subjective debate. Whats your opinion of "World Class"?


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 7, 2021)

Home alone for me tonight, well with the cat as well if that counts.
Missus is away all week down at her parents but I've probably got a 2 1/2 drive in the morning so I'd better not risk going to the local pub 😬
Took some racks of ribs out of the freezer last night, got a bbq planned for just moi later, two different flavour ribs, maybe some roasted spicy sprouts and get some pit beans on the go. Maybe a bottle of nice sauvignon blanc as well 😋


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He's turning out for Argentina, saving penalties, last season statistically was one of the top keepers in the Premier League as well. 'World Class' was a generous hyperbole of course, but he's not really far off it depending on how you define it.
		
Click to expand...

he may be now but he was far from it for the vast majority of his time at Arsenal


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## BiMGuy (Jul 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Very subjective debate. Whats your opinion of "World Class"?
		
Click to expand...

It is indeed. Especially when a player in question plays for your club. 

Being described as world class is throw at a lot of players these days. For me. You would have to be included in an all world squad. So that would get you 3 keepers. He wouldn't be one of my 3.

Like I said. He's a very good keeper, but how many top half PL teams would drop their current number 1 for him?


----------



## Bdill93 (Jul 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			It is indeed. Especially when a player in question plays for your club.

Being described as world class is throw at a lot of players these days. For me. You would have to be included in an all world squad. So that would get you 3 keepers. He wouldn't be one of my 3.

Like I said. He's a very good keeper, but how many top half PL teams would drop their current number 1 for him?
		
Click to expand...

Ive not said he's world class - I know he plays for my club! I said he was a beast and a gamechanger for villa - cant argue with that! 

I think he'd get in to at least half of the top teams in the prem. Some have equally talented players though. We do have the best keepers in the world in the prem in my opinion. 

My "world class" category is very similar. Martinez wouldnt make my cut either. But he is brilliant


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think they did well considering they have an awful goalie, awful striker, were without Ramos for the first time in about 30 years, and most people had written them off.
		
Click to expand...

Defensively they did not miss Ramos. But their goal keeper was a disaster. No strikers to talk about either and when you hear he bought a squad of 24 instead of 26 , I would question the manager’s credibility. But the Spanish have been like that for a few major tournaments- they sometimes bought a striker but rarely played him or fed him … they need to re build and get a striker and find a goalie who stands in the right place, can catch, and has a pair of feet or a healthy respect for his inability to football


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Defensively they did not miss Ramos. But their goal keeper was a disaster. No strikers to talk about either and *when you hear he bought a squad of 24 instead of 26 , I would question the manager’s credibility*. But the Spanish have been like that for a few major tournaments- they sometimes bought a striker but rarely played him or fed him … they need to re build and get a striker and find a goalie who stands in the right place, can catch, and has a pair of feet or a healthy respect for his inability to football
		
Click to expand...

Why take players when you know you are not going to play them? They just become a headache for the manager, they end up having to manage players unnecessarily. You can question other aspects, I don't know enough about Spanish football to question selection, players left at home etc, but not wanting a bloated squad is pretty understandable to me.

The others bits, totally agree


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## Orikoru (Jul 7, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Defensively they did not miss Ramos. But their goal keeper was a disaster. No strikers to talk about either and when you hear he bought a squad of 24 instead of 26 , I would question the manager’s credibility. But the Spanish have been like that for a few major tournaments- they sometimes bought a striker but rarely played him or fed him … they need to re build and get a striker and find a goalie who stands in the right place, can catch, and has a pair of feet or a healthy respect for his inability to football
		
Click to expand...

I didn't understand not taking him, they called up Eric Garcia who played less than 10 games last season. It seems like being a Barca youth product is more important than actually playing football. As you say, they didn't even take all their squad slots, surely you put Ramos in for a bit of leadership and drive? And he definitely would have scored his penalty.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Very subjective debate. Whats your opinion of "World Class"?
		
Click to expand...

Someone who can score a header at corners.


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why take players when you know you are not going to play them? They just become a headache for the manager, they end up having to manage players unnecessarily. You can question other aspects, I don't know enough about Spanish football to question selection, players left at home etc, but not wanting a bloated squad is pretty understandable to me.

The others bits, totally agree 

Click to expand...

I understand the argument but he should have given himself an option .. sometimes things are not predictable. But as you say he would not have played them


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## Hobbit (Jul 7, 2021)

Pizzas are in, beer run done, bbq locked and loaded. Friends due round at 6pm. All will be ready for kick off.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 7, 2021)

Predicted line-up is the same as for Ukraine but Saka back in for Sancho apparently.


----------



## sunshine (Jul 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Home alone for me tonight, well with the cat as well if that counts.
Missus is away all week down at her parents but I've probably got a 2 1/2 drive in the morning so I'd better not risk going to the local pub 😬
Took some racks of ribs out of the freezer last night, got a bbq planned for just moi later, two different flavour ribs, maybe some roasted spicy sprouts and get some pit beans on the go. Maybe a bottle of nice sauvignon blanc as well 😋
		
Click to expand...

random


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## sunshine (Jul 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He honestly looked more nervous walking up than I've ever seen a player. You wouldn't think he was a striker from his body language.
		
Click to expand...

I would have bet my house he was going to miss. I almost expected him to scuff it.

He looked like me on the 1st tee with water down the left, OOB down the right, and 200 yard carry over thick rough to the fairway.


----------



## sunshine (Jul 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Predicted line-up is the same as for Ukraine but Saka back in for Sancho apparently.
		
Click to expand...

Hope so.

Jenas went overboard in his praise for Sancho during the last match. He played well, not outstanding. I thought Saka looked more dangerous going forward and tracked back better too.


----------



## richart (Jul 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			he may be now but he was far from it for the vast majority of his time at Arsenal
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant for us, and kept us in the Championship. 👍


----------



## Bdill93 (Jul 7, 2021)

Off home from work shortly - so ill leave you all with this...







VINDALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 7, 2021)

I'm Getting excited
Bowls match tonight. 
Might watch the highlights later if Denmark win.


----------



## IanM (Jul 7, 2021)

Bowls Doonie???   Surely the Scottish Teams are playing in the Champions League this week?   It is the first week in July!


----------



## IainP (Jul 7, 2021)

Hasn't it been nice, having a big footy tournament and not talking/reading about WAGs 👍


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 7, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I'm Getting excited
Bowls match tonight. 
Might watch the highlights later if Denmark win.
		
Click to expand...

This should be in the Bowls thread surley.


----------



## IainP (Jul 7, 2021)

Having a feeling about England conceding their first goal, and extra time tonight. Hopefully wrong on both counts!


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 7, 2021)

IainP said:



			Having a feeling about England conceding their first goal, and extra time tonight. Hopefully wrong on both counts!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, be interesting to see how they react to going behind. Will it be the same old England who can't break teams down or something different. Can't flipping wait.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 7, 2021)

IainP said:



			Having a feeling about England conceding their first goal, and extra time tonight. Hopefully wrong on both counts!
		
Click to expand...

I've got England clean sheet, 5+ corners and Kane to score, you go take your feelings elsewhere 😋


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## harpo_72 (Jul 7, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			I've got England clean sheet, 5+ corners and Kane to score, you go take your feelings elsewhere 😋
		
Click to expand...

Is it a big bet?


----------



## BiMGuy (Jul 7, 2021)

Comfy 2-0 to England.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 7, 2021)

Great atmosphere in the stadium tonight should take England to a comfortable victory.
Gareth sticking to the tried and tested with plenty of fire power in reserve if needed.
After watching Italy yesterday I can only see one winner of the tournament.
Come on England bring it home.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Comfy 2-0 to England.
		
Click to expand...

I hope so as well


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



*Great atmosphere in the stadium tonight* should take England to a comfortable victory.
Gareth sticking to the tried and tested with plenty of fire power in reserve if needed.
After watching Italy yesterday I can only see one winner of the tournament.
Come on England bring it home.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, isn't the booing of the opposition's National Anthem great? 

The "Ing-er-land" fans are an embarrassing bunch of halfwits at times.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2021)

Here we go! Come on England.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## Captainron (Jul 7, 2021)

Will Kane come through for Orikuru?


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Will Kane come through for Orikuru?
		
Click to expand...


saving it for the final, the ultimate sweat


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yes, isn't the booing of the opposition's National Anthem great? 

The "Ing-er-land" fans are an embarrassing bunch of halfwits at times. 

Click to expand...

Absolute pond life.


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## Fade and Die (Jul 7, 2021)

Don’t know if I can stand much Sam Twatterface. Bloke is a constant stream of cliche’s 🤬


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Don’t know if I can stand much Sam Twatterface. Bloke is a constant stream of cliche’s 🤬
		
Click to expand...


and arguably still not the worst of the 2 in the comm box


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## GreiginFife (Jul 7, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Is it a big bet?
		
Click to expand...

Not really but it's a ton in my back burner if it comes up.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

And there’s the Pickford rick we all knew was there.


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## Dando (Jul 7, 2021)

Not a bad free kick


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## harpo_72 (Jul 7, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Not really but it's a ton in my back burner if it comes up.
		
Click to expand...

Oops looks not so good now


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			And there’s the Pickford rick we all knew was there.
		
Click to expand...

Was it a Rick? Was a cracking shot

More like Shaw returning to brain farts with that free kick. Cryint out loud


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 7, 2021)

Oops - footballs coming home to wonderful wonderful Copenhagen 🤫😉?  Come on England...plenty of time. Need to cut out the stupid unforced errors though.


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## Dando (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			And there’s the Pickford rick we all knew was there.
		
Click to expand...

not many keepers would keep that out


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## GreiginFife (Jul 7, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Oops looks not so good now
		
Click to expand...

I think you mean "totally burst"

Quality free kick though.


----------



## Cherry13 (Jul 7, 2021)

Dando said:



			not many keepers would keep that out
		
Click to expand...

Wasn’t at fault for goal, but he hasn’t settled since that dodgy throw.


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## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Dando said:



			not many keepers would keep that out
		
Click to expand...

Most do. It’s hit well but very close to him. That’s bad keeping.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

Can't afford to waste those.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 7, 2021)

That’s better...👍


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

How did he not score?


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Ooh, defender gets Sterling off the hook.

Come on England.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

think we should be pretty happy getting in at 1-1 here, couldve been worse, if Hojberg finds a half decent cross at 1-0 were in all sorts of trouble

games far too frantic at times, real need for that bit more quality on the ball at times, sets up great for the 2nd half though

Walker who was exposed last game been utterly excellent defensively tonight

As for not blaming the keeper 🤐🤐🤐


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			How did he not score?
		
Click to expand...

How can anyone praise kasper for tht? It was right at him


----------



## Captainron (Jul 7, 2021)

The Donkey needs to get his backside into the box instead of coming short for those passes.


----------



## Dando (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Most do. It’s hit well but very close to him. That’s bad keeping.
		
Click to expand...

ok, whatever


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2021)

Credit to Denmark, certainly done their homework on us.

Got to use the pace and skill of our forwards as they’ll more than likely eat up any crosses in the air.

Decent game for the neutral, not so sure it’s been as good for my stress levels.😂


----------



## Reemul (Jul 7, 2021)

There was no way Pickford was saving that, it was miles high and dipped like a mother at the end. total arse decision by Shaw in the freekick before and Sterling missing one that my nan would have scored. Kane needs to get in the bloody box as well.

This looking more like the England I remember.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 7, 2021)

Captainron said:



			The Donkey needs to get his backside into the box instead of coming short for those passes.
		
Click to expand...

Those passes that made the goal? Keep fishing


----------



## IainP (Jul 7, 2021)

Open play goal from the right - tick


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 7, 2021)

Pickford is looking a little shaky just needs to calm down count to 3 and get on with it. 
The right side and low crosses work .. do the left side as well .. the Danes are all big boys so play it hard and low


----------



## Dando (Jul 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He's a massive bigot mate flying under the flag of being a woke socially aware type. Ignore him
		
Click to expand...

Not a fan then?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Comfy 2-0 to England.
		
Click to expand...

I'd like to watch that game instead of the one I'm seeing 😳

Really enjoying watching Saka. Hey @fundy your mob had better not mess him up 😆


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 7, 2021)

Pickford is scaring me - he's in one of his hyper moods...


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Pickford is scaring me - he's in one of his hyper moods...
		
Click to expand...

Yep I thought exactly the same 😬


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Pickford is scaring me - he's in one of his hyper moods...
		
Click to expand...

I've seen that look in his eyes before for Everton. Hopefully he can go all zen at halftime.


----------



## Captainron (Jul 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Those passes that made the goal? Keep fishing
		
Click to expand...

The last 5 minutes of that half, England had great possession and field position. Kane came out and the 2 central defenders had nothing to worry about. Get in there and make yourself thoroughly disagreable.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd like to watch that game instead of the one I'm seeing 😳

Really enjoying watching Saka. Hey @fundy your mob had better not mess him up 😆
		
Click to expand...


sadly i dont expect he stays with us more than another year or two, if he does we probably will


----------



## Dando (Jul 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've seen that look in his eyes before for Everton. Hopefully he can go all zen at halftime.
		
Click to expand...

Let’s hope there’s a joint in the changing room for him


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yes, isn't the booing of the opposition's National Anthem great? 

The "Ing-er-land" fans are an embarrassing bunch of halfwits at times. 

Click to expand...

Why you highlighting my post I posted over an hour before the national anthems.
Post your own irritations


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

top save that


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Dando said:



			Not a fan then?
		
Click to expand...

Which is weird because I throughly enjoyed Beezerk’s company during a round of golf when last we met. 👍🏽


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Where the hell was our centre forward?


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Where the hell was our centre forward?
		
Click to expand...

Captainron has promised him lunch and a round of golf if he plays badly tonight…


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 7, 2021)

Not sure I can call this...England will score.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Grealish on for Saka, and he’ll buy space and time for Kane.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Cometh the hour ............................


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 7, 2021)

Really getting fed up with seeing Kane everywhere except in the area.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

That has to be a penalty ................. surely?
Okay, maybe not.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Clear penalty for me!


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			That has to be a penalty ................. surely?
Okay, maybe not.
		
Click to expand...


lol if he was wearing a Spurs shirt youd be calling it a dive


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

Defender gets the ball first & gets kicked by Kane.  Clearly not a penalty.


----------



## toyboy54 (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Clear penalty for me!
		
Click to expand...

Rubbish....Kane trying out for Italy???


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Defender gets the ball first & gets kicked by Kane.  Clearly not a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

Yea I agree now. I went back and watched again from an earlier angle and you’re right. I was sure Kane got the nick at first.


----------



## Italian outcast (Jul 7, 2021)

toyboy54 said:



			Rubbish....Kane trying out for Italy???

Click to expand...

He's too ugly for us


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

why is he not using the bench???


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			why is he not using the bench???
		
Click to expand...

Now is the first time we find out if Southgate has it. He hasn’t needed to change a game so far this tournament. This is his chance to actually prove himself. Bet he bottles it and Sterling and Kane play the full game.


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## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol if he was wearing a Spurs shirt youd be calling it a dive 

Click to expand...

Why would Spurs be playing Denmark?


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Why would Spurs be playing Denmark? 

Click to expand...

and who would Hojberg play for if they were 🙄


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 7, 2021)

Sooooo slowwww 😭


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Great tackle, important tackle.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Now, that was a dive.


----------



## IainP (Jul 7, 2021)

Would say England have been trying to win it in last 15. Danes doing a decent job of blocking the spaces


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Cant just be me thats thinks this would be the perfect time for TAA and Henderson 

in seriousness get Foden, Trippier and Sancho on plse 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Captainron (Jul 7, 2021)

Mount looks stuffed!


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 7, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Mount looks stuffed!
		
Click to expand...

It's Foden o clock surely.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Sanch for Sterling, Foden for Mount and Rashford for Kane.
I'd even accept Ramsdale for Kane tonight!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Sanch for Sterling, Foden for Mount and Rashford for Kane.
I'd even accept Ramsdale for Kane tonight!
		
Click to expand...

Rashford? Really???


----------



## Hobbit (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Sanch for Sterling, Foden for Mount and Rashford for Kane.
I'd even accept Ramsdale for Kane tonight!
		
Click to expand...

Charlton’s warming up!


----------



## larmen (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Now, that was a dive.
		
Click to expand...

As a neutral, England is going full Italy towards the end.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Really getting fed up with seeing Kane everywhere except in the area.
		
Click to expand...

This is driving me nuts as well. So many times players are looking for a cf and we don't have one in the box 😡


----------



## IainP (Jul 7, 2021)

IainP said:



			Having a feeling about England conceding their first goal, and extra time tonight. Hopefully wrong on both counts!
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm.
Please, no penalties!


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

IainP said:



			Having a feeling about England conceding their first goal, and extra time tonight. Hopefully wrong on both counts!
		
Click to expand...


well we all know who to blame......


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Sanch for Sterling, Foden for Mount and Rashford for Kane.
I'd even accept Ramsdale for Kane tonight!
		
Click to expand...

You could put a snail on for Kane and get better output


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Henderson for Phillips or Rice. Sancho for Sterling. He wants Kane for experience and pens so at least play to his strengths and give him a central midfielder that’ll push up behind him and a winger that’ll put in crosses.


----------



## Dando (Jul 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This is driving me nuts as well. So many times players are looking for a cf and we don't have one in the box 😡
		
Click to expand...

4 or 5 decent crosses near the 6 yard
box and Harry “best striker in the world” Kane was nowhere to be seen


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2021)

Does Gareth know we have subs left to use? Has he forgotten they are there?


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

seriously Southgate, use your bench!!!!!


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Rashford? Really???
		
Click to expand...

Damn straight, in fact anyone would do.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Sterling’s BACK.


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 7, 2021)

Denmark are spent, giving it away too cheaply now and playing for penalties. 
I can see 3-1 coming.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Danes utterly out on their legs, no surprise after the comp theyve had and a trip to Baku, they are there for the taking. Please take it!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			Danes utterly out on their legs, no surprise after the comp theyve had and a trip to Baku, they are there for the taking. Please take it!!!!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Sancho and Rashford on and just run them into the ground.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

That was a dive. I hope he's booked.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

wow this would be super soft


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

That should be a yellow card for Sterling.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Why did Dixon think there has to be contact? How can a pundit be so clueless?


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

lol backed an ET penalty to be scored. I really do detest Kane lol


----------



## Captainron (Jul 7, 2021)

That was a shocking penalty 🤣


----------



## pendodave (Jul 7, 2021)

Hmmm. Don't feel great about that pen.
This must be what it's like to support one of dem big clubs...


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Damn straight, in fact anyone would do.
		
Click to expand...

He’s pants


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2021)

Unlucky Kasper 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Dando (Jul 7, 2021)

Captainron said:



			That was a shocking penalty 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Forest Gump in his calipers could’ve struck it better


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

Captainron said:



			That was a shocking penalty 🤣
		
Click to expand...

It wasn't that good.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Someone in my neighbourhood just set off fireworks when that went in. You’d think they’d have learned from the past.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Utterly shrewd from Kane, proving those who say he only scores pens wrong 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Dando (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Why did Dixon think there has to be contact? How can a pundit be so clueless?
		
Click to expand...

He just said Kane’s had a good game 🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 7, 2021)

Definitely a dive by Sterling, but penalty given. Poor kick from Kane but redeemed himself. Almost a bad taste in the mouth, but hey, we're winning


----------



## Captainron (Jul 7, 2021)

Only 2 more Sterling dives and the dream comes true for Ori!


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 7, 2021)

Dando said:



			He just said Kane’s had a good game 🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

spit my beer out when he said that


----------



## IainP (Jul 7, 2021)

In some ways harsh on Danes to go behind, but only one team was trying to win in the 1st period of ET


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Only 2 more Sterling dives and the dream comes true for Ori!
		
Click to expand...


you think hell score the next 2 rebounds


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 7, 2021)

Feel like it’s gonna be a long 15 minutes🤪


----------



## pendodave (Jul 7, 2021)

It's ok. We "deserved" the pen, so it doesn't matter that it was a dive


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2021)

Get in Harry Kane. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

We need another goal to avoid a dirty victory.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Feel like it’s gonna be a long 15 minutes🤪
		
Click to expand...


shouldnt be, theyre utterly dead on their feet, should pick them off on the counter attack easily


----------



## arnieboy (Jul 7, 2021)

Well done Harry, you scored from inside the box to please some of your doubters.😉


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Sterling might have gone down easy as hell but it is a foul if he has to avoid a leg that would’ve fouled him otherwise.


----------



## Imurg (Jul 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			shouldnt be, theyre utterly dead on their feet, should pick them off on the counter attack easily
		
Click to expand...

Are you talking us or them


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Are you talking us or them

Click to expand...

as you should know by now, anyone who will listen lol


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

can someone explain taking Grealish off to me please


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 7, 2021)

I want to see some $hi*thousery that would make even the Italians blush! 😜


----------



## Dando (Jul 7, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Well done Harry, you scored from inside the box to please some of your doubters.😉
		
Click to expand...

It was the first time he’d been in the box all night


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			can someone explain taking Grealish off to me please
		
Click to expand...

“The system will prevail”


----------



## Captainron (Jul 7, 2021)

Why go defensive and invite pressure? Had the upper hand in that period? Score another goal and it’s all over.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

England subs to get subbed in a tournament game

Redknapp v Scotland 1996
Lennon v Portugal 2006
Grealish v Denmark 2021

Poor old Jack


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			England subs to get subbed in a tournament game

Redknapp v Scotland 1996
Lennon v Portugal 2006
Grealish v Denmark 2021

Poor old Jack
		
Click to expand...

“I know. In a game where we’ll be inviting all out attacks I’ll take off our only player who has shown he can hold the ball up and bring our only forward into the game.”


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2021)

Balance of play England deserve to be winning this but that was a clear dive by Sterling , certainly been a lot of throwing themselves to the floor 

Some of their wide play has been outstanding but it comes to a sudden halt when they look up and see Kane nowhere near the box - Englands play in the wide areas deserves to have someone to be on the end of it 

And Lee Dixon is an embarrassment as a co commentator.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

STOP PASSING BACKWARDS!


----------



## Italian outcast (Jul 7, 2021)

Is Sterling the English Patrick Reed ?


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

This will be a win in spite of Southgate, not because of him. The subs have been stupid. Too late. Too negative. And it took a missed penalty and an OG.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Italian outcast said:



			Is Sterling the English Patrick Reed ?

Click to expand...


your next Outcast


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Sterling might have gone down easy as hell but it is a foul if he has to avoid a leg that would’ve fouled him otherwise.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Sterling ...................... greedy sod.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

geez that was awful, awful hard work, bring on Sunday


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Sterling ...................... greedy sod.
		
Click to expand...

Been the best player on the park - outstanding tonight


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 37422

Click to expand...

I know he left Liverpool and thus you hate him.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 7, 2021)

And Kane's last touch was yet another dive..... but a wins a win.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

A dirty win, but I'll take it on the basis that we were the much better team.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 7, 2021)

It’s coming home.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I know he left Liverpool and thus you hate him.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂

Your justification of the dive was embarrassing- that comment is even worse 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Been the best player on the park - outstanding tonight
		
Click to expand...

I don't think so.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2021)

Happy to eat a large slice of “humble pie”

Congratulations Gareth, You’ve got us to Final and give us back some hope and dreams. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 7, 2021)

Nice one England...pleased for Gareth Southgate.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			I don't think so.
		
Click to expand...

Who has been better ? He was oustanding , was a threat all game long. His pace and dribbling was superb


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 7, 2021)

"Roy, what was the key to England winning tonight"

Err.... diving


----------



## toyboy54 (Jul 7, 2021)

Well done England...you deserved to win tonight!
Played some good, controlled, possession football.
Now all the bollocks will be getting trotted out, which is understandable I suppose!!
Jealousy is a horrible thing


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who has been better ? He was oustanding , was a threat all game long. His pace and dribbling was superb
		
Click to expand...

Outstanding Really???


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

Denmark, you have a lot to answer for; another four days of "It's Coming Home" and "Sweet Caroline".


----------



## IanM (Jul 7, 2021)

Blimey .  That was a hard watch!

My Italian mate is giving me grief already!
Well done chaps


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2021)

Poor performance for me,but I’ll take it.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 7, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			This will be a win in spite of Southgate, not because of him. The subs have been stupid. Too late. Too negative. And it took a missed penalty and an OG.
		
Click to expand...


I get what you’re saying but I’ve got to be honest. I don’t care. 😆


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who has been better ? He was oustanding , was a threat all game long. His pace and dribbling was superb
		
Click to expand...

For me I'll go with Schmeichel and Damsgaard for Denmark and Walker and Maguire for England,
Maybe even Saka.
Not Kane, I repeat, not Kane.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2021)

Enjoy the win lads!! We can disect the match tomorrow ffs!

England in a Final for the first time since, probably, 90% of yous have been on this planet.
🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## Piece (Jul 7, 2021)

No photographs on the scorecard as they say. No moaning here. 🤐

Surrey man is very pleased. 👍


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2021)

Best game in an England shirt for Walker tonight, he was superb. Provided so much cover with his pace.

Special mention to the ref. Beautifully groomed, his hair never budged 😁


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 7, 2021)

Phew, I'm up at 5.30 but how am I supposed to get to sleep after that 😮 
GET IN!!!


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

Sterling's interview confirms the dive.  Disappointing.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 7, 2021)

Put your Alfa Romeos and Fiats in the garage Sunday night, chaps.


----------



## Hobbit (Jul 7, 2021)

Good match apart from the second period of extra time. England bossed the last 15 mins of normal time and the first period of extra time but oh it was dire after that.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 7, 2021)

Very much a stop start performance. When we knocked it around it was a thing of beauty. When we didn’t  Italy will get  half a dozen.
The final could be a cagey affair.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Sterling's interview confirms the dive.  Disappointing.
		
Click to expand...

it was clear as day and it’s embarrassing that VAR didnt overrule it

Guess can’t bring out the hand of god anymore 😁


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## pokerjoke (Jul 7, 2021)

Just a great feeling getting the job done.
Roll on Sunday.
Some very good performances.
Wether it’s a penalty or not who cares,being happy as apposed to being angry and frustrated we lost is so much better.


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## larmen (Jul 7, 2021)

Piece said:



			No photographs on the scorecard as they say. No moaning here. 🤐

Surrey man is very pleased. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Not talking about a lucky bounce, talking about hand wedge out of a bunker kind of play.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 7, 2021)

Professional performance. Wore the Danes out in the end. 

I thought Sterling and Walker were excellent all game.


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## Beezerk (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Sterling's interview confirms the dive.  Disappointing.
		
Click to expand...

Who fecking cares 🍾


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## yandabrown (Jul 7, 2021)

My impressions are that Pickford was removing shots well, Stones was rolling the ball, Phillips was electric, Walker was crisp, Rice was crispy too, Kane was very able, Sterling has pounded away, Mount stood out like Everest, to be frank Maguire was average. 

Shamelessly stolen


----------



## HomecountiesJohn (Jul 7, 2021)

Absolutely fantastic result from the guys, we never gave up. 

So proud to be English tonight.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 7, 2021)

Play like we did tonight and the Italians will be having us with their pasta. If we don't play it quick we will be gone.


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## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Play like we did tonight and the Italians will be having us with their pasta.* If we don't play it quick we will be gone*.
		
Click to expand...

Southgate will know that ................... have faith.


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## need_my_wedge (Jul 7, 2021)

Bit of mixed emotions really. Absolutely hate cheating divers in football, regardless of whether they are playing for the team I'm supporting. There was way to much of it tonight, but in the other hand, totally  ecstatic we won


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			it was clear as day and it’s embarrassing that VAR didnt overrule it
		
Click to expand...

Why Phil? It wasn’t a penalty, agreed, but neither was it a clear and obvious error by the on-field referee.

In the Premier League VAR would have dithered for five minutes, viewed it from 35 different angles and then made a dog’s dinner of the decision. 

The VAR during this tournament has been a breath of fresh air. Swift, consistent and only intervened when necessary. The referee got that one wrong, I agree. But VAR was correctly applied.


----------



## IanM (Jul 7, 2021)

I think Denmark were very good for an hour, then ran out of gas. Casper was excellent. 

I put money on Italy at the start of the tournament,  and I won't be cashing out this evening 

But  got to the final.   Another hurdle passed.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Who fecking cares 🍾
		
Click to expand...

I do. I detest the cancer of diving that is infesting football.


----------



## larmen (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I do. I detest the cancer of diving that is infesting football.
		
Click to expand...

2 or 3 days ago, before the Italy game there was a long discussion here where everyone agreed with it.


----------



## BiMGuy (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I do. I detest the cancer of diving that is infesting football.
		
Click to expand...

Anywhere else on the pitch and you get a free kick. There must be 20 of them per game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Why Phil? It wasn’t a penalty, agreed, but neither was it a clear and obvious error by the on-field referee.

In the Premier League VAR would have dithered for five minutes, viewed it from 35 different angles and then made a dog’s dinner of the decision.

The VAR during this tournament has been a breath of fresh air. Swift, consistent and only intervened when necessary. The referee got that one wrong, I agree. But VAR was correctly applied.
		
Click to expand...

It’s clear and obvious there was no contact on Sterling - you can see that within 19 seconds and two angles - so he gave a penalty when Sterling wasn’t touched , it’s that not a clear and obvious error 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Why Phil? *It wasn’t a penalty, agreed, but neither was it a clear and obvious error* by the on-field referee.

In the Premier League VAR would have dithered for five minutes, viewed it from 35 different angles and then made a dog’s dinner of the decision.

The VAR during this tournament has been a breath of fresh air. Swift, consistent and only intervened when necessary. The referee got that one wrong, I agree. But VAR was correctly applied.
		
Click to expand...

I have great difficulty understanding how a penalty awarded for a dive following minimal or nil contact can be anything other than a clear and obvious error.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

larmen said:



			2 or 3 days ago, before the Italy game there was a long discussion here where everyone agreed with it.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed with what; diving?  If so it certainly wasn't everyone.


----------



## BiMGuy (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I have great difficulty understanding how a penalty awarded for a dive following minimal or nil contact can be anything other than a clear and obvious error.
		
Click to expand...

It could easily have been given for the second contact. 

England are in a final FFS. Stop moaning and enjoy it.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			It could easily have been given for the second contact.

England are in a final FFS. *Stop moaning and enjoy it.*

Click to expand...

If I'm not happy about it I'll moan.  There's no compulsion to enjoy a flawed victory, nor are you in a position to tell me what I will and won't enjoy.


----------



## Piece (Jul 7, 2021)

This thread just keeps on giving 🤣


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2021)

ITV have just introduced Harry Kane as Man of the Match! 
You just couldn't make it up.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			If I'm not happy about it I'll moan.  There's no compulsion to enjoy a flawed victory, nor are you in a position to tell me what I will and won't enjoy.
		
Click to expand...

Did you celebrate any of Chelsea's success after buying the league rather than winning through previous success?

Bit of a flawed view


----------



## larmen (Jul 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			It could easily have been given for the second contact.

England are in a final FFS. Stop moaning and enjoy it.
		
Click to expand...

They agreed with your opinion that diving is bad


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 7, 2021)

I did say at 1-1 that England would score 😊 As it happens I don't think the penalty was an obvious error, it seems quite possible that the player deemed to have tripped Sterling may actually have knocked him, so the penalty might not have been awarded for a trip.  If it was a Scottish player going down I wouldn‘t be complaining about being awarded a penalty or using the resulting goal to detract from a victory.  Accept it...England won...😻 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## BiMGuy (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			If I'm not happy about it I'll moan.  There's no compulsion to enjoy a flawed victory, nor are you in a position to tell me what I will and won't enjoy.
		
Click to expand...

😂


----------



## ADB (Jul 7, 2021)

Plucky old England who always played the game the right way got nowhere - the game has changed and we're adapting to it. Too many heartbreaks in the past to worry about a dodgy pen, we made our own luck and benefited from it!


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			If I'm not happy about it I'll moan.  There's no compulsion to enjoy a flawed victory, nor are you in a position to tell me what I will and won't enjoy.
		
Click to expand...


do you have to justify yourself to your shadow?


----------



## IanM (Jul 7, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I did say at 1-1 that England would score 😊 As it happens I don't think the penalty was an obvious error, it seems quite possible that the player deemed to have tripped Sterling may actually have knocked him, so the penalty might not have been awarded for a trip.  If it was a Scottish player going down I wouldn‘t be complaining about being awarded a penalty or using the resulting goal to detract from a victory.  Accept it...England won...😻 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
		
Click to expand...

And there you have it.

Thread locked 🔒


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s clear and obvious there was no contact on Sterling - you can see that within 19 seconds and two angles - so he gave a penalty when Sterling wasn’t touched , it’s that not a clear and obvious error 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

We’ll have to agree to disagree! It’s a clear and obvious error if there’s no contact whatsoever but there was. Not enough to bring Sterling down, but equally enough to mean the error wasn’t clear and obvious.

I’d be unhappy if that penalty had gone the other way but the debate here is whether VAR was correctly applied, not whether the penalty decision was correct. For me VAR was spot on. The referee wrong, but VAR spot on.


----------



## IanM (Jul 7, 2021)

Like playing links golf, sometimes it bounces on the green, sometimes it bounces in the bunker.

Tonight we got the marginal call.  Plenty of other times we haven't.

Given some of the above, I wonder what number some folk write on their card if they make par after a lucky bounce!


----------



## RichA (Jul 8, 2021)

Had to rush off so I didn't see the super slow motion footage, but I thought both defenders clipped him. 
Denmark were ok but England were better and deserved to win.
I've watched every major tournament since 78 and don't remember any team that's got to a final playing only beatiful, uncynical football. Those types of team normally go out in the semis or quarter finals. 
Kane's constant looking for free kicks bothers me more than anything Sterling does. I'm just ecstatic that we've reached the final.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2021)

RichA said:



			Had to rush off so I didn't see the super slow motion footage, but I thought both defenders clipped him.
Denmark were ok but England were better and deserved to win.
I've watched every major tournament since 78 and don't remember any team that's got to a final playing only beatiful, uncynical football. Those types of team normally go out in the semis or quarter finals.
Kane's constant looking for free kicks bothers me more than anything Sterling does. I'm just ecstatic that we've reached the final.
		
Click to expand...

Very excited for Sunday , apart from one fa cup final (that we lost) I've never been involved in a major final as a fan. (Play off finals excluded lol)

Great bit of history just wish the daughter was a bit older to enjoy it with me. She won't be able to stay up will fall asleep and would get bored lol


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 8, 2021)

“There was no contact”

Well done on not knowing the laws of the game.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2021)

I thought Sterling had a good game except for his finishing again.
But less effective on the right he seems better coming inside from the left.
Thought the ref made some crucial mistakes .
Foul for their goal was very soft, never a pen for me.
But we dug it out and not the best game in the world but we won.
Kane is to deep again and we had no presence in the box most of the night.
Sitting back in last 15 mins when they only had 10 men seemed very strange decision imo.
But we won so well done GS.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Did you celebrate any of Chelsea's success after buying the league rather than winning through previous success?

Bit of a flawed view
		
Click to expand...

Diving is cheating. 

Owners injecting cash has been part of football long before the Roman came to London. 

If you were gonna use any Chelsea analogy, I'd have at least gone with them hoovering up youth stars as they were at least charged and therefor found to have done something wrong. ..


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Diving is cheating.

Owners injecting cash has been part of football long before the Roman came to London.

If you were gonna use any Chelsea analogy, I'd have at least gone with them hoovering up youth stars as they were at least charged and therefor found to have done something wrong. ..
		
Click to expand...

Ok. Drogba. One of the biggest dives and cheats to ever grace the English game

Chelsea hero


Anyways point is England are through to our first final at a major tournament in 55 years 

Should be nothing but positive vibes


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Ok. Drogba. One of the biggest dives and cheats to ever grace the English game

Chelsea hero


Anyways point is England are through to our first final at a major tournament in 55 years

Should be nothing but positive vibes
		
Click to expand...

Need to try again I'm afraid. 

Your point was made against Rich's opinion, not all Chelsea fans and Rich has on multiple occasions slagged off his own players. 

I don't recall people saying they're disappointed with wining either.


----------



## Voyager EMH (Jul 8, 2021)

One goal conceded in nine and a half hours of football and what a shot it was!
That's what it takes to have even a chance of beating this team. The teamwork and effort put in was outstanding again.

Please forgive me for being very biased, but Kasper would have had little difficulty saving a shot from that range. Just wish he was English.


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

Pleased they got through that was a physical game, which we knew it would be. Sterling performed and really showed us what he can do 👍. 
I am sorry but my view on the penalty might differ, you just cannot man handle a player in the box. 
KS was immense in the Denmark goal, but some of the physical blocking deserved more cards and the long down time for injuries was unacceptable..
But well done England!!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			One goal conceded in nine and a half hours of football and what a shot it was!
That's what it takes to have even a chance of beating this team. The teamwork and effort put in was outstanding again.

Please forgive me for being very biased, but Kasper would have had little difficulty saving a shot from that range. Just wish he was English.
		
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To be fair with the amount of time he has lived in this country we could have tried to call him up no? But back then he wasn't rated..city let him go in favour of hart. He has matured into a brilliant keeper


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## Smiffy (Jul 8, 2021)

Reasonable game, a bit scrappy in places, but we got the required result. Wasn't as entertaining as the previous nights semi, but that was a hard act to follow.
I too was surprised Pickford didn't make a better job of the free kick, and as an ex-goalkeeper he worries me sometimes. I'm not particularly keen on how he punches at balls he could quite easily catch. But hey-ho.
Was it a penalty? I don't think so. But there have been plenty of dodgy ones given over the years so just another to add to the tally I suppose.
I'd love to see England win on Sunday if only to shut the constant references to 1966 up. 
But I think they are going to have to seriously raise their game against the Italians.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2021)

Smiffy said:



			Reasonable game, a bit scrappy in places, but we got the required result. Wasn't as entertaining as the previous nights semi, but that was a hard act to follow.
I too was surprised Pickford didn't make a better job of the free kick, and as an ex-goalkeeper he worries me sometimes. I'm not particularly keen on how he punches at balls he could quite easily catch. But hey-ho.
Was it a penalty? I don't think so. But there have been plenty of dodgy ones given over the years so just another to add to the tally I suppose.
I'd love to see England win on Sunday if only to shut the constant references to 1966 up.
But I think they are going to have to seriously raise their game against the Italians.
		
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They were talking about new balls for.the semis and final which move about more...we have had this issue since about 2014 I think when they had balls for one world cup that were all over the place making it harder to catch 

Nobody really mentions the pen that was pretty strong on Kane .. got clattered


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## Junior (Jul 8, 2021)

Sometimes when you're not playing well in a game you need the rub of the green and you have to win ugly. 

Yes, Mount was ineffective , Pickford was ropey, Southgate's extra time subs should have been made after 70 minutes and Kane should have got in the box more but we got over the line. 

Taking the positives, I thought Kyle Walker was immense, they shut Shaw down but he still looked dangerous on the overlap and  sterling / saka looked very threatening.  Southgate needs to get his tactics spot on Sunday and you never know.......


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## Captainron (Jul 8, 2021)

Wow. How much did the team celebrate on the pitch afterwards? It’s like they had won the whole thing? Still a fairly big obstacle to overcome on Sunday. Just show the clip of them singing and dancing to sweet Caroline to the Italians for a bit of motivation.


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## Smiffy (Jul 8, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Wow. How much did the team celebrate on the pitch afterwards? It’s like they had won the whole thing? Still a fairly big obstacle to overcome on Sunday. Just show the clip of them singing and dancing to sweet Caroline to the Italians for a bit of motivation.
		
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I drew England out in the works sweep. Got to be honest, when I first saw who I'd drawn I wanted to slash my wrists.............whatever happens on Sunday I'm going to win a tenner. I might, (might), get lucky and win a £50.00 note!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

The morning after the night before🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Thought it was a good game, Denmark deserved the lead, they’d done their homework and knew exactly how England like to play from the back, thankfully the equaliser came soon after, which I think stopped them growing in belief, and gave us the upperhand.

2nd half only had 1 team in it and thought we did enough to win it in 90 minutes.

Welcome to the world of watching Pickford on a regular basis, although I think Damsgaard should be given a bit more credit for the quality of the strike.

Soft penalty, and any player in that position for any team at any level would of gone down and expected a penalty.

There was contact, as seen below.

As for the Final, anything can happen, we’ve seen it time and time again over the yesrs the form book or team’s failing to turn up or stepping up. Nothing to fear, more than capable of beating Italy, hopefully be a great game, ending with Kane lifting the trophy.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412906781794316288


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Wow. How much did the team celebrate on the pitch afterwards? It’s like they had won the whole thing? Still a fairly big obstacle to overcome on Sunday. Just show the clip of them singing and dancing to sweet Caroline to the Italians for a bit of motivation.
		
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I don’t think for one minute they’d thought they’d won the whole thing, it was more relief for finally getting over the hoodoo of constant “nearly men” since 1966, every generation since has been compared to that and failed. 

Italy celebrated with their fans the night before and rightly so. I doubt you’ll find one English supporter who thinks last night was anymore than a huge celebration of finally reaching another final.


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## need_my_wedge (Jul 8, 2021)

ADB said:



			Plucky old England who always played the game the right way got nowhere - the game has changed and we're adapting to it. Too many heartbreaks in the past to worry about a dodgy pen, we made our own luck and benefited from it!
		
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I was thinking this last night whilst sat watching. In days gone by, we would often get undone by teams diving and rolling all over the place feigning injury. I always hated it. Now we do the same, it's playing the game at the same level as everyone else now and has seen us through to the final. I still hate it, it leaves a bitter taste at best, but, we're in the final. I'm sure I'll get over it


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## Hobbit (Jul 8, 2021)

Sterling’s penalty; some say there was no contact. I saw the same footage as everyone. I believe there was contact, though minimal, and Sterling made the most of it and started to go down. At the point, the second defender certainly did make contact.

I wonder what facilities VAR has? Freeze frame? Slo-mo? Magnify part of the screen? Bearing in mind what cricket has when the third umpire is called upon, I expect it has. I thought the ref got it right in real time, and was ably supported by VAR.

If England had taken half the decent chances they created they’d have been out of sight long before the final whistle. The concerns me. Chances against Italy will be rare, and Italy’s ability on the ball will be the biggest question asked of the team for a long time.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The morning after the night before🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Thought it was a good game, Denmark deserved the lead, they’d done their homework and knew exactly how England like to play from the back, thankfully the equaliser came soon after, which I think stopped them growing in belief, and gave us the upperhand.

2nd half only had 1 team in it and thought we did enough to win it in 90 minutes.

Welcome to the world of watching Pickford on a regular basis, although I think Damsgaard should be given a bit more credit for the quality of the strike.

Soft penalty, and any player in that position for any team at any level would of gone down and expected a penalty.

There was contact, as seen below.

As for the Final, anything can happen, we’ve seen it time and time again over the yesrs the form book or team’s failing to turn up or stepping up. Nothing to fear, more than capable of beating Italy, hopefully be a great game, ending with Kane lifting the trophy.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412906781794316288

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I wonder how many see that clip and change there mind about it not being a penalty. For me the clip should carry on for another couple of seconds. The player that catches him then checks his stride and throws his hands in the air. He knows it is a soft one. It’s a penalty all day long. Ave seen Walker do that enough times playing for City to convince me.

That said, there’s a few feeling sorry for Grealish being taken off. Southgate had to change it. Denmark had put on another forward and Southgate countered with Trippier going on. Although at times it looked a bit like England v Croatia in the World Cup re defending. It had to be done. Another tough and correct call by Southgate.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Sterling’s penalty; some say there was no contact. I saw the same footage as everyone. I believe there was contact, though minimal, and Sterling made the most of it and started to go down. At the point, the second defender certainly did make contact.

I wonder what facilities VAR has? Freeze frame? Slo-mo? Magnify part of the screen? Bearing in mind what cricket has when the third umpire is called upon, I expect it has. I thought the ref got it right in real time, and was ably supported by VAR.

If England had taken half the decent chances they created they’d have been out of sight long before the final whistle. The concerns me. Chances against Italy will be rare, and Italy’s ability on the ball will be the biggest question asked of the team for a long time.
		
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Must be noted that var only gets involved in a clear error ...with the contact it's understandable why the pen was given so was always going to stand


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## Tashyboy (Jul 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think for one minute they’d thought they’d won the whole thing, it was more relief for finally getting over the hoodoo of constant “nearly men” since 1966, every generation since has been compared to that and failed.

Italy celebrated with their fans the night before and rightly so. I doubt you’ll find one English supporter who thinks last night was anymore than a huge celebration of finally reaching another final.
		
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I think getting to the final is a massive monkey off the back of the England players 👍 and it showed.

I did mention at the start of the tournament when England were uninspiring that the country needed a lift with Covid etc. I thought the bit before the game where it was mentioned in the build up was quite apt. I wonder how long it is before the pm claims he picked the team.
Should England win, could well be a knighthood for Southgate.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Must be noted that var only gets involved in a clear error ...with the contact it's understandable why the pen was given so was always going to stand
		
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Cannot remember who the referee was who ITV kept going to last night but I liked it. We have our views as armchair fans but I enjoyed the input from the ref from a Law point of view.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Cannot remember who the referee was who ITV kept going to last night but I liked it. We have our views as armchair fans but I enjoyed the input from the ref from a Law point of view.
		
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Too many fans judge on outdated laws and bygone eras

This day and age thats a pen


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## Yorkhacker (Jul 8, 2021)

I'm delighted England are in the final. I hope the fans can show the highest levels of dignity win or lose. I fear not.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I wonder how many see that clip and change there mind about it not being a penalty. For me the clip should carry on for another couple of seconds. The player that catches him then checks his stride and throws his hands in the air. He knows it is a soft one. It’s a penalty all day long. Ave seen Walker do that enough times playing for City to convince me.

That said, there’s a few feeling sorry for Grealish being taken off. Southgate had to change it. Denmark had put on another forward and Southgate countered with Trippier going on. Although at times it looked a bit like England v Croatia in the World Cup re defending. It had to be done. Another tough and correct call by Southgate.
		
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I'd disagree with the Grealish call, although we won so hey ho, classic bar room chat 😁. Taking him off meant we conceded possession, both literally and psychologically. 5 at the back sucked the defence and midfield towards our goal line and created unnecessary pressure. Grealish keeps hold of the ball, would have stretched a tired Danish team, gains fouls that break up the play, eats time etc. With him we could have scored a 3rd goal, held possession in the way that we did for the last 2 minutes. He and foden could have kept it between them for 15 minutes 👍.

It was a classic Southgate decision. But hey, we won 🤷‍♂️, so this is academic.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd disagree with the Grealish call, although we won so hey ho, classic bar room chat 😁. Taking him off meant we conceded possession, both literally and psychologically. 5 at the back sucked the defence and midfield towards our goal line and created unnecessary pressure. Grealish keeps hold of the ball, would have stretched a tired Danish team, gains fouls that break up the play, eats time etc. With him we could have scored a 3rd goal, held possession in the way that we did for the last 2 minutes. He and foden could have kept it between them for 15 minutes 👍.

It was a classic Southgate decision. But hey, we won 🤷‍♂️, so this is academic.
		
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I think one thing that has not been mentioned is the fitness of the England players. Denmark looked absolutely knackered. they used all there subs and were still struggling. To see Walker and others bombing forward so late in the game was unreal.


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## RichA (Jul 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			To be fair with the amount of time he has lived in this country we could have tried to call him up no? But back then he wasn't rated..city let him go in favour of hart. He has matured into a brilliant keeper
		
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I heard on the radio that the FA approached him when he was a youngster. He was only ever interested in playing for Denmark.


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## Hobbit (Jul 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd disagree with the Grealish call, although we won so hey ho, classic bar room chat 😁. Taking him off meant we conceded possession, both literally and psychologically. 5 at the back sucked the defence and midfield towards our goal line and created unnecessary pressure. Grealish keeps hold of the ball, would have stretched a tired Danish team, gains fouls that break up the play, eats time etc. With him we could have scored a 3rd goal, held possession in the way that we did for the last 2 minutes. He and foden could have kept it between them for 15 minutes 👍.

It was a classic Southgate decision. But hey, we won 🤷‍♂️, so this is academic.
		
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Totally agree. Let other teams worry about England. Changing to accommodate them left Sterling and Kane struggling for scraps.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Totally agree. Let other teams worry about England. Changing to accommodate them left Sterling and Kane struggling for scraps.
		
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The enigma that is Gareth.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 8, 2021)

I'm shattered this morning! For me it wasn't a dirty win or dirty penalty or blatant dive. The second defender's hip bump was enough for it to be given for me. 

I think Sterling has been amazing this whole tournament and an easy target for criticism. His end product is by no means great BUT his running into space and speed causes havoc in defences. He was still going strong until the final whistle - amazing stamina and gave us an out ball.

If we're talking about winning dirty then what the hell were the Danes trying to do every time we built up a head of steam and had them under the cosh? Talk about "tactical injuries" and cleverly make them a head injury so the ref has to stop the game and allow treatment. Never bad enough to mean the player leaves the pitch though and adhere to the so called "concussion charter"!

If, for once, we got through a knockout game with a decision that could have gone either way...I say about bloody time!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I have great difficulty understanding how a penalty awarded for a dive following minimal or nil contact can be anything other than a clear and obvious error.
		
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I believe the player himself said there was no touch on him or didn’t feel one so he went down on his own choice so as you say - clear and obvious , people searching for stills from angles to try and justify it just makes it worse , at least some ( including the player ) put their hands up and state it what it is

England have been on the end of things like it in the past - Hand of God being the clear one - so now they have their own moment

https://www.sportbible.com/australi...html?source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

This isn’t great as well

Add in this as well 




Ref should have stopped the game 

Certainly all going the way of the host nation


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2021)

I'm hoping the quality of Foden playing through the middle last night shone through clearly enough for him never to be stuck out wide again. He looked the player he is for City last night.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Did you celebrate any of Chelsea's success after buying the league rather than winning through previous success?

Bit of a flawed view
		
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Sorry I’m struggling to see the connection 🤷‍♂️

What Chelsea did when Abramovich arrived was fine within the laws of the game - there is no correlation between that and a player diving 


Now if you had mentioned Drogba and his dives at times you would have had a point but then you would soon realise that Rich is as critical of his own players diving as he is with others including Drogba


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe the player himself said there was no touch on him or didn’t feel one so he went down on his own choice so as you say - clear and obvious , people searching for stills from angles to try and justify it just makes it worse , at least some ( including the player ) put their hands up and state it what it is

England have been on the end of things like it in the past - Hand of God being the clear one - so now they have their own moment
		
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Really, I guess what you believe is wrong?

Actual quote from his interview after the game. 

Asked if it was a ‘definite’ penalty, Sterling told ITV: ‘Yeah, I went into the box, he stuck he right leg out and he touched my legs to its a clear penalty.’

As for we have our own moment.


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## Hobbit (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe the player himself said there was no touch on him or didn’t feel one so he went down on his own choice so as you say - clear and obvious , people searching for stills from angles to try and justify it just makes it worse , at least some ( including the player ) put their hands up and state it what it is

England have been on the end of things like it in the past - Hand of God being the clear one - so now they have their own moment

https://www.sportbible.com/australi...html?source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

This isn’t great as well
		
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You believe or did you actually hear the player say it. I saw the post match interview, and he said no such thing. Making things up again Phil to embellish your point?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			You believe or did you actually hear the player say it. I saw the post match interview, and he said no such thing. Making things up again Phil to embellish your point?
		
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Almost as if he wanted them to lose.🤷‍♂️


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## arnieboy (Jul 8, 2021)

Stands back ready to be shot at........  I thought Kane played well. He is not a goal hanger, he drops deep in order to provide the likes of Sterling with incisive through balls as well as having a dig at goal himself. His style of play is why Son scores so many goals for Spurs. But then again I am a Spurs supporter so I would say that.😉


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## Billysboots (Jul 8, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Sterling’s penalty; some say there was no contact. I saw the same footage as everyone. I believe there was contact, though minimal, and Sterling made the most of it and started to go down. At the point, the second defender certainly did make contact.

I wonder what facilities VAR has? Freeze frame? Slo-mo? Magnify part of the screen? Bearing in mind what cricket has when the third umpire is called upon, I expect it has. I thought the ref got it right in real time, and was ably supported by VAR.

If England had taken half the decent chances they created they’d have been out of sight long before the final whistle. The concerns me. Chances against Italy will be rare, and Italy’s ability on the ball will be the biggest question asked of the team for a long time.
		
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I think the reason there are such opposing views on here regarding the involvement of VAR in the England penalty is the fact that most of us have spent the last year or so watching the woeful application of it in the Premier League.

Had that been Sterling in Man City blue last night then you can almost guarantee that the penalty decision, if not overruled by VAR, would at least have resulted in VAR telling the referee to review the incident on a pitch side monitor.

VAR was only ever meant to get involved in clear and obvious errors by the on-field referee. What we have got used to seeing in the Premier League is cock up after cock up and hopeless inconsistencies in its application. Decisions take way too long and often cause more controversy than when we actually had no VAR.

As I said here last night, the use of VAR in this tournament has been first class. Decisions are swift, consistent and, most importantly, VAR has only become involved in cases where there have been clear and obvious errors.

I sincerely hope those at the Premier League and Stockley Park have been watching and taking note. If they have, then the pundits will get back to talking about football and not some of the embarrassing VAR decisions we have become accustomed to.

I’m not holding my breath.


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## IanM (Jul 8, 2021)

There's some folk _clutching at straws _in this thread since 22:00hrs last night!    Enough to keep a psychology student busy for ages! 

The Final on Sunday is Italy v England.  Everyone else has gone home, some a while ago!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Stands back ready to be shot at........  I thought Kane played well. He is not a goal hanger, he drops deep in order to provide the likes of Sterling with incisive through balls as well as having a dig at goal himself. His style of play is why Son scores so many goals for Spurs. But then again I am a Spurs supporter so I would say that.😉
		
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Thought all 11 plus subs played well, yes there were hiccups, but we Southgate has them working hard.


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## Piece (Jul 8, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Wow. How much did the team celebrate on the pitch afterwards? It’s like they had won the whole thing? Still a fairly big obstacle to overcome on Sunday. Just show the clip of them singing and dancing to sweet Caroline to the Italians for a bit of motivation.
		
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They didn't celebrate as much as the Italians the night before


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I think the reason there are such opposing views on here regarding the involvement of VAR in the England penalty is the fact that most of us have spent the last year or so watching the woeful application of it in the Premier League.

Had that been Sterling in Man City blue last night then you can almost guarantee that the penalty decision, if not overruled by VAR, would at least have resulted in VAR telling the referee to review the incident on a pitch side monitor.

VAR was only ever meant to get involved in clear and obvious errors by the on-field referee. What we have got used to seeing in the Premier League is cock up after cock up and hopeless inconsistencies in its application. Decisions take way too long and often cause more controversy than when we actually had no VAR.

As I said here last night, the use of VAR in this tournament has been first class. Decisions are swift, consistent and, most importantly, VAR has only become involved in cases where there have been clear and obvious errors.

I sincerely hope those at the Premier League and Stockley Park have been watching and taking note. If they have, then the pundits will get back to talking about football and not some of the embarrassing VAR decisions we have become accustomed to.

I’m not holding my breath.
		
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I agree that the way Var seems to have be used in this comp has been excellent- I can only recall the ref going to the screen once but that’s was for the same sort of incident last night - whilst i don’t think they would overrule the decision I think the very least they should have been obligated to tell him to go see it again 

But just like in the CL and europe Var seems to work so much better especially offsides - the only time it was a bit of a mess was when the English officials were involved


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## BiMGuy (Jul 8, 2021)

Piece said:



			They didn't celebrate as much as the Italians the night before 

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Or Scotland when they won their tournament 0-0 😁


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## Piece (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*I believe the player himself said there was no touch on him or didn’t feel one so he went down on his own choice so as you say* - clear and obvious , people searching for stills from angles to try and justify it just makes it worse , at least some ( including the player ) put their hands up and state it what it is
		
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Sterling said in the ITV interview afterwards he was clipped so went down.


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## Piece (Jul 8, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Stands back ready to be shot at........  I thought Kane played well. He is not a goal hanger, he drops deep in order to provide the likes of Sterling with incisive through balls as well as having a dig at goal himself. His style of play is why Son scores so many goals for Spurs. But then again I am a Spurs supporter so I would say that.😉
		
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At last.


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## GB72 (Jul 8, 2021)

The decision for the penalty was marginal but how many times have we been the plucky losers based on a marginal decision that has gone against us. 

England are in a major football final and that is something that I have not seen in my lifetime and so I am celebrating with everyone else.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Stands back ready to be shot at........  I thought Kane played well. He is not a goal hanger, he drops deep in order to provide the likes of Sterling with incisive through balls as well as having a dig at goal himself. His style of play is why Son scores so many goals for Spurs. But then again I am a Spurs supporter so I would say that.😉
		
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This is how Firmino plays for Liverpool.
It works if the midfield get ahead of him and the wide men get in the box.
But it does have the downside of having nobody in the box a lot of the time.
Mount was missing for most of the game and should have been replaced by Foden at half time imo.
The Italians will love it if we do that in the final.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Stands back ready to be shot at........  I thought Kane played well. He is not a goal hanger, he drops deep in order to provide the likes of Sterling with incisive through balls as well as having a dig at goal himself. His style of play is why Son scores so many goals for Spurs. But then again I am a Spurs supporter so I would say that.😉
		
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I think the only issue with him constantly dropping deep is the team losing a focal point around the box - they were outstanding in the wider areas and unless the opposite wide players get in the box the momentum stops - the ball Kane played for Saka was superb but Mount should be the one on the ball in those areas with Kane higher up - Italy midfield will swamp that area so England will need to get someone higher up


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## AmandaJR (Jul 8, 2021)

I'd have Foden in for Mount. In the middle behind Kane. He's much more likely to interchange with Kane and push ahead of him when he sees the space. Can't recall Mount ever really doing that and it did leave us without an option when we created a great opportunity wide. 

I've not been a fan of Gareth's selection and tactics but can't argue with the results so...what do I know


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## Neilds (Jul 8, 2021)

Could someone please tell me why there is the big fuss about Grealish?  Every time he plays, and also mentioned a few times on here, people say he is the most fouled player, will win free kicks, etc but surely, as an attacking midfielder he is there to set up goals.  This is not going to be done by winning free kicks, most of which are are too far from goal.  The Danish goal was the first direct free kick scored in the Euros this year so the days of the free kick specialist are obviously over (if they ever existed) and England's delivery from free kicks further out (and corners) has been patchy at best.  I would prefer my attacking midfielders to beat one player and then look to play a pass forward than hold onto it and try and win a foul.


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## Whereditgo (Jul 8, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Could someone please tell me why there is the big fuss about Grealish?  Every time he plays, and also mentioned a few times on here, people say he is the most fouled player, will win free kicks, etc but surely, as an attacking midfielder *he is there to set up goals*.  This is not going to be done by winning free kicks, most of which are are too far from goal.  The Danish goal was the first direct free kick scored in the Euros this year so the days of the free kick specialist are obviously over (if they ever existed) and England's delivery from free kicks further out (and corners) has been patchy at best.  I would prefer my attacking midfielders to beat one player and then look to play a pass forward than hold onto it and try and win a foul.
		
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Kane's first goal of the tournament?


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think the only issue with him constantly dropping deep is the team losing a focal point around the box - they  were outstanding in the wider areas and unless the opposite wide players get in the box the momentum stops - the ball Kane played for Saka was superb but Mount should be the one on the ball in those areas with Kane higher up - Italy midfield will swamp that area so England will need to get someone higher up
		
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Spot on but I think the way GS sets up with Rice & Phillips , Kane gets in mount and Phillips way sometimes.
When they get the ball they look for Kane but he’s standing next to them.
Fantastic ball for the goal.
I just think he’s so much more dangerous on the shoulder of the CB.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I'd have Foden in for Mount. In the middle behind Kane. He's much more likely to interchange with Kane and push ahead of him when he sees the space. Can't recall Mount ever really doing that and it did leave us without an option when we created a great opportunity wide.

I've not been a fan of Gareth's selection and tactics but can't argue with the results so...what do I know 

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That’s the answer and the way Foden plays will give England a focal point - his movement will also cause the two Italian CB’s issues in the same way Olma did


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## theoneandonly (Jul 8, 2021)

No problem with the pen. Sort of thing that's given week in and and out in the prem. Just spend 5 mins watching the likes of Salah etc. 
Just scroll back through the footy threads to see the people whining about Sterling backing their own divers to the hilt.


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## Neilds (Jul 8, 2021)

Whereditgo said:



			Kane's first goal of the tournament?
		
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And how many forward passes apart from that one?


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## Billysboots (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can only recall the ref going to the screen once but that’s was for the same sort of incident last night - whilst i don’t think they would overrule the decision I think the very least they should have been obligated to tell him to go see it again
		
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And that’s where we must disagree, Phil.

For VAR to tell the ref last night to review the decision, that decision had to be a clear and obvious error. It’s stretching it to suggest it was either.


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## Piece (Jul 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Spot on but I think the way GS sets up with Rice & Phillips , Kane gets in mount and Phillips way sometimes.
When they get the ball they look for Kane but he’s standing next to them.
Fantastic ball for the goal.
I just think he’s so much more dangerous on the shoulder of the CB.
		
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But that's not how Harry Kane plays for Spurs and how he's made a career of scoring goals.

The game has moved on since old days of rigid formations. It's about fluidity and mobility. All the best strikers in the world do come deep (Aguero, Lewandowski, etc.). You stick Harry Kane in a rigid upfront only position, then that is meat and drink to defenders, let alone Chellini and Bonucci.


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## Whereditgo (Jul 8, 2021)

Neilds said:



			And how many forward passes apart from that one?
		
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2 assists in 151 minutes played?

Pace and the ability/willingness to go past players with ball at feet cause defenders problems, we have several players who can do that, Stirling, Saka, Grealish, Foden and Sancho. Getting the right balance is the key though.

For me Stirling had his best game of the tournament last night and Walker was standout the best defender.


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## SatchFan (Jul 8, 2021)

Not sure what all the fuss is about regarding some England players being a bit unsteady on their feet. On Sunday they face the absolute masters of diving, feigning injury, histrionics and generic cheating.


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## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2021)

Amazing! We're in the final! I actually feel that going behind was the best thing for us. If we'd have coasted through with a 1-0 there would be questions about whether we can overcome adversity in the final, but a come-from-behind win gives you confidence that you can turn things around. It was an excellent free kick from them, I had no qualms about Pickford on that really - the less said about his two fluffed throw-outs/clearances the better though, haha. But equalising before half time was so important towards getting the result. If we hadn't they might have been tougher to break down in the second half.

Once it went extra time I felt we might have the fitness and energy edge, and that was proven by the lazy tackling that produced our penalty. I watched it with a lot of people and not one of us was saying dive, I was surprised to come on here and read that, but then some of you only think it's penalty if someone has their leg broken or is decapitated or something. As I say, it was two defenders both with lazy half-arsed challenges, getting nowhere near the ball and impeded him, so it was never going to be overturned. I was shocked Kane missed it - first missed pen for him in nearly two years (ironically that was in an England shirt also) and he'd scored his last 11. But at least we got that slice of luck with it falling back to his feet.

Italy will be a totally different proposition, a different level of opposition to what we've faced so far, but I feel confident that we won't panic or get flustered - the team looks confident. I think it'll be a tight game, maybe a 0-0 or a 1-1 going to extra time, but we'll see. Italy are certainly not unbeatable, but they are dangerous and have a solid defence. I wonder if Southgate will go to the back five as he often does against the big teams.

---



Neilds said:



			Could someone please tell me why there is the big fuss about Grealish?  Every time he plays, and also mentioned a few times on here, people say he is the most fouled player, will win free kicks, etc but surely, as an attacking midfielder he is there to set up goals.  This is not going to be done by winning free kicks, most of which are are too far from goal.  The Danish goal was the first direct free kick scored in the Euros this year so the days of the free kick specialist are obviously over (if they ever existed) and England's delivery from free kicks further out (and corners) has been patchy at best.  I would prefer my attacking midfielders to beat one player and then look to play a pass forward than hold onto it and try and win a foul.
		
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Just to address this, it's because Grealish is the type of player who fans get excited about, he runs with the ball, takes players on, and even in his limited minutes he has produced two assists at this tournament - only Shaw has more for us. The fact that he wins fouls is not an accident, it's because defenders hate players like that who take them on, and he has fantastic feet to keep the ball away from them.



arnieboy said:



			Stands back ready to be shot at........  I thought Kane played well. He is not a goal hanger, he drops deep in order to provide the likes of Sterling with incisive through balls as well as having a dig at goal himself. His style of play is why Son scores so many goals for Spurs. But then again I am a Spurs supporter so I would say that.😉
		
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This is true. I can't say I don't understand people's frustrations, because I do, it was the same with Rooney where if they don't get the ball they go looking for it a bit. But with the right set-up around him he is just such a good all-round footballer. He doesn't care if it's him scoring the goals or someone else as long as the team is winning. You just need to have players who run beyond him. As you say, it has been Son for us recently, a few years ago it was Dele who was playing number 10 but getting very advanced and getting into the box, that season when he scored about 18 goals. In this England side, you can see Sterling reaping the benefits as he is the one who makes those great runs into the box, when Kane's movement creates the gaps or links up the play. I do think that Mount as the number 10 maybe doesn't work well with Kane as they end up in similar positions, you would maybe want a more aggressive number 10 who will actually run beyond Kane (like Dele used to) rather than sit in the hole as Mount tends to do. But, Mount does a good job tracking back so that'll be why Southgate keeps him in there.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

Grealish is a nightmare to handle, get him in the box and he can force a penalty. The set piece outside the box works for us as well.. I was disappointed with some of the deliveries from the corners but the Danes were big boys. Kane played well he made the spaces and did some give and goes nicely. But there were times when mount was just too close, and it is Mount that needs to address this because it would stretch the gaps in the box. 
I think if we get it on the floor and run at the Italian CBs they will present little or no issues. If we are popping up balls for holding play .. they will deal with it .. so it’s a case of playing it on the floor. The Spanish did not have a striker, they have creativity in DO, Pedri and Busquets but they did not have the cutting edge.. the Italian central mid just needs to be closed down


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## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Grealish is a nightmare to handle, get him in the box and he can force a penalty. The set piece outside the box works for us as well.. I was disappointed with some of the deliveries from the corners but the Danes were big boys. Kane played well he made the spaces and did some give and goes nicely. But there were times when mount was just too close, and it is Mount that needs to address this because it would stretch the gaps in the box.
I think if we get it on the floor and run at the Italian CBs they will present little or no issues. If we are popping up balls for holding play .. they will deal with it .. so it’s a case of playing it on the floor. The Spanish did not have a striker, they have creativity in DO, Pedri and Busquets but they did not have the cutting edge.. the Italian central mid just needs to be closed down
		
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I think it's a real shame that none of our starting line-up can hit a decent free kick really. Someone we ended up with Sterling having a go last night - never seen him even attempt one before. Trippier is probably the best in the squad but he hasn't been starting all the games. I would say again that we should've taken JWP, but then he most likely wouldn't be on the pitch most of the time either. Shame Trent couldn't go in the end. Some of Mount's corners have been really poor as well. Shaw takes a half decent one but they're hit and miss. We certainly haven't had the same set piece threat that we carried three years ago.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2021)

They will always be a stain on the team - from booing the players kneeling to the disrespectful booing of the anthems - no grace in winning and certainly not in losing

The stuff on social media with the German girl was appalling


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## Beezerk (Jul 8, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Wow. How much did the team celebrate on the pitch afterwards? It’s like they had won the whole thing? Still a fairly big obstacle to overcome on Sunday. Just show the clip of them singing and dancing to sweet Caroline to the Italians for a bit of motivation.
		
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Did you see the Italy vs Spain game, the Italians celebrated like they'd won the Euros and World Cup combined 🤣


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## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2021)

I also celebrated us winning a semi-final and reaching our first final in 55 years. Sorry, I didn't realise it was frowned upon.


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## Canary_Yellow (Jul 8, 2021)

Reading back through this thread this morning is really quite a bizarre experience!

Seems very clear to me that regardless of whether the contact on Sterling (from either defender) was sufficient to constitute a foul, once the ref had given it, VAR was correctly applied in not overturning the decision as it's not a clear and obvious error. It might be quite a soft one and hard for the Danes to accept, but that's a foul anywhere else on the pitch so it's also a penalty. 

Anyone that thinks this was somehow a "jammy" win for England is, in my opinion, very much mistaken. Firstly the Danes goal came from a softer freekick than England's penalty, and second, if the penalty hadn't been given, I don't doubt for a second that England would have gone on to score before too long. It was an absolute siege.

Well done England!


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## stefanovic (Jul 8, 2021)

My second England final to look forward to.
Here is my quiz from 66.

Before the tournament started the Jules Rimet Trophy was stolen.
What was the name of the dog that sniffed it out?

Which Latin American countries did England play in the finals?

Which stadium held a greyhound meeting straight after a game?

The final was shown on both BBC and ITV.
Who were the commentators?

What happened to the ball after the final?


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## IainP (Jul 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm hoping the quality of Foden playing through the middle last night shone through clearly enough for him never to be stuck out wide again. He looked the player he is for City last night.
		
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Being able to bring on Foden & Henderson as subs is great (not talking about who starts, more squad depth)


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

IainP said:



			Being able to bring on Foden & Henderson as subs is great (not talking about who starts, more squad depth)
		
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That’s the the thing not even Spain has that depth and Italy are not as well blessed from what I can see


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## IainP (Jul 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd disagree with the Grealish call, although we won so hey ho, classic bar room chat 😁. Taking him off meant we conceded possession, both literally and psychologically. 5 at the back sucked the defence and midfield towards our goal line and created unnecessary pressure. Grealish keeps hold of the ball, would have stretched a tired Danish team, gains fouls that break up the play, eats time etc. With him we could have scored a 3rd goal, held possession in the way that we did for the last 2 minutes. He and foden could have kept it between them for 15 minutes 👍.

It was a classic Southgate decision. But hey, we won 🤷‍♂️, so this is academic.
		
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Pretty much agree, only opposing thought is his style can lead to giving away possession when out of shape and inviting a breakaway attack. Perhaps was on GS mind.


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## RichA (Jul 8, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Reading back through this thread this morning is really quite a bizarre experience!

Seems very clear to me that regardless of whether the contact on Sterling (from either defender) was sufficient to constitute a foul, once the ref had given it, VAR was correctly applied in not overturning the decision as it's not a clear and obvious error. It might be quite a soft one and hard for the Danes to accept, but that's a foul anywhere else on the pitch so it's also a penalty. 

Anyone that thinks this was somehow a "jammy" win for England is, in my opinion, very much mistaken. Firstly the Danes goal came from a softer freekick than England's penalty, and second, if the penalty hadn't been given, I don't doubt for a second that England would have gone on to score before too long. It was an absolute siege.

Well done England!
		
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Completely agree. The Danes are big boys, know the dark arts as well as any team and employed them more than England last night. 
10 minutes before the penalty, Sterling made a similar run into their box. As he passed the first defender, he was pushed in the back, into the second defender. Sterling's hand brushed the chin of the Dane, who went down holding his face and was treated for a couple of minutes as though he had a head injury. Time wasted and a free kick awarded to Denmark for an incident that started with Sterling being pushed in the back in their penalty area. This is just how tournament football goes. 
I wasn't aware of any worldwide inquiry after contentious decisions were involved in England's exits from previous tournaments.


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## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2021)

RichA said:



			Completely agree. The Danes are big boys, know the dark arts as well as any team and employed them more than England last night.
10 minutes before the penalty, Sterling made a similar run into their box. As he passed the first defender, he was pushed in the back, into the second defender. Sterling's hand brushed the chin of the Dane, who went down holding his face and was treated for a couple of minutes as though he had a head injury. Time wasted and a free kick awarded to Denmark for an incident that started with Sterling being pushed in the back in their penalty area. This is just how tournament football goes.
I wasn't aware of any worldwide inquiry after contentious decisions were involved in England's exits from previous tournaments.
		
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Precisely, not to mention Maguire was booked for jumping with his arms in front of him, not even out to the side, just brushed the guy's head and got carded for some reason. Nonsense.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			My second England final to look forward to.
Here is my quiz from 66.

Before the tournament started the Jules Rimet Trophy was stolen.
What was the name of the dog that sniffed it out? *Pickles*

Which Latin American countries did England play in the finals? *Argentina & Uruguay (Mexico)*

Which stadium held a greyhound meeting straight after a game? *White City*

The final was shown on both BBC and ITV.
Who were the commentators? *Kenneth Wolstenhome & ?*

What happened to the ball after the final? *German Player took it home*

Click to expand...

See above, all from the top of head.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Precisely, not to mention Maguire was booked for jumping with his arms in front of him, not even out to the side, just brushed the guy's head and got carded for some reason. Nonsense.
		
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Maguire is amazing at getting his head on corners but I was worried after that ridiculous booking he may get sent off. He did keep going for them and not much difference I could see from those challenges to the one that was deemed a yellow.

But hey - we only won because we cheated - that's right I think


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## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I also celebrated us winning a semi-final and reaching our first final in 55 years. Sorry, I didn't realise it was frowned upon. 

Click to expand...

Remember we are British. One must not over do it.

A hearty well done chaps is the limit unless the final has been won then you may remove your cap and give 3 hearty cheers.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Maguire is amazing at getting his head on corners but I was worried after that ridiculous booking he may get sent off. He did keep going for them and not much difference I could see from those challenges to the one that was deemed a yellow.

*But hey - we only won because we cheated - that's right I think *

Click to expand...

And in spite of our fans, who knew the National Team had a bad element supporting them.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

Saw the laser stuff, if it was an issue surely he would have hit the floor like he had been shot???


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2021)

RichA said:



			Completely agree. The Danes are big boys, know the dark arts as well as any team and employed them more than England last night.
10 minutes before the penalty, Sterling made a similar run into their box. As he passed the first defender, he was pushed in the back, into the second defender. Sterling's hand brushed the chin of the Dane, who went down holding his face and was treated for a couple of minutes as though he had a head injury. Time wasted and a free kick awarded to Denmark for an incident that started with Sterling being pushed in the back in their penalty area. This is just how tournament football goes.
*I wasn't aware of any worldwide inquiry after contentious decisions were involved in England's exits from previous tournaments.*

Click to expand...

Really ? So there is never any talk of lampard goal not given or the hand of god ? 🤷‍♂️


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## AmandaJR (Jul 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			And in spite of our fans, who knew the National Team had a bad element supporting them.

Click to expand...

We really should hang our heads in shame. No other country has fans who act in a similar way...

It doesn't make it right - but let's not self-flagellate so much or enjoy it so much!


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## AmandaJR (Jul 8, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Saw the laser stuff, if it was an issue surely he would have hit the floor like he had been shot???
		
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He didn't even notice it - no change in his head position or focus. Stupid move by some stupid moron but had zero impact.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Maguire is amazing at getting his head on corners but I was worried after that ridiculous booking he may get sent off. He did keep going for them and not much difference I could see from those challenges to the one that was deemed a yellow.

But hey - we only won because we cheated - that's right I think 

Click to expand...

That yellow was ridiculous considering the defenders that were blatantly body checking and holding… I think we should just skip over that now, there are contentious points in all the games. This time we were not severely penalised by them, like we are normally. 
Remember everyone hates the English, we have ruled the waves and generally instigated unhappiness where ever we have gone … and long May that continue God save the Queen!


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			He didn't even notice it - no change in his head position or focus. Stupid move by some stupid moron but had zero impact.
		
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Exactly.. it’s just a load of twaddle .. he should have used a red laser .. incompetent muppet .. joking aside I hope they get that person and make an example of them


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			We really should hang our heads in shame. No other country has fans who act in a similar way...

It doesn't make it right - but let's not self-flagellate so much or enjoy it so much!
		
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Italian fans are pretty disgraceful in serie A there are stories of mopeds being thrown down on opposition fans, and having to take an umbrella because they like to have a wee from above.. watching football anywhere can be a nightmare and it attracts the muppets


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			We really should hang our heads in shame. No other country has fans who act in a similar way...

It doesn't make it right - but let's not self-flagellate so much or enjoy it so much!
		
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Looking forward to next season when the idiot elements from EVERY Club are highlighted on here.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

For anyone thinking of going the match.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2021)

Piece said:



			But that's not how Harry Kane plays for Spurs and how he's made a career of scoring goals.

The game has moved on since old days of rigid formations. It's about fluidity and mobility. All the best strikers in the world do come deep (Aguero, Lewandowski, etc.). You stick Harry Kane in a rigid upfront only position, then that is meat and drink to defenders, let alone Chellini and Bonucci.
		
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But most teams don’t have two holding midfielders.
Far to often we didn’t have anybody in the box.
Fine if the wide players do it 
Sterling is the only one that does.


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## RichA (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ? So there is never any talk of lampard goal not given or the hand of god ? 🤷‍♂️
		
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Read it again. I'm saying that nobody outside of England probably gave more than a few seconds thought to those occasions, hence the use of the word "worldwide".


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2021)

IainP said:



			Pretty much agree, only opposing thought is his style can lead to giving away possession when out of shape and inviting a breakaway attack. Perhaps was on GS mind.
		
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I think we are in the territory of glass half full, cautious or more confident? If we were to follow the 'no fear' approach of England 1 day cricket for example then Grealish stays on and you tell him to do more of the same. Have faith that he, Foden and others will damage the opposition, don't worry what the opposition might do to you. That is not GS way though, he is cautious, he does worry about what the opposition might do. Ultimately, it is his job at stake so making free wheeling decisions are much tougher when you are the one in the firing line. I am sat on the settee shouting for Grealish to come on earlier and stay on but there are no consequences to my shouting (obviously Gareth should be listening to my shouting though )


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ? So there is never any talk of lampard goal not given or the hand of god ? 🤷‍♂️
		
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Did they do anything? No they let it ride so they will have to let this go as well .. they can only instigate preventative measure for the next tournaments ..


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			For anyone thinking of going the match.
View attachment 37431


View attachment 37432

Click to expand...

I should sell places on my sofa, beer supplied plus pause button just in case you need light relief


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think we are in the territory of glass half full, cautious or more confident? If we were to follow the 'no fear' approach of England 1 day cricket for example then Grealish stays on and you tell him to do more of the same. Have faith that he, Foden and others will damage the opposition, don't worry what the opposition might do to you. That is not GS way though, he is cautious, he does worry about what the opposition might do. Ultimately, it is his job at stake so making free wheeling decisions are much tougher when you are the one in the firing line. I am sat on the settee shouting for Grealish to come on earlier and stay on but there are no consequences to my shouting (obviously Gareth should be listening to my shouting though )
		
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Tbf though, we could of gone for the third goal quite easily during the 15 minutes, instead we kept possession in the corners and restricted their chances, 2-1 behind and Grealish stays on.


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## RichA (Jul 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think we are in the territory of glass half full, cautious or more confident? If we were to follow the 'no fear' approach of England 1 day cricket for example then Grealish stays on and you tell him to do more of the same. Have faith that he, Foden and others will damage the opposition, don't worry what the opposition might do to you. That is not GS way though, he is cautious, he does worry about what the opposition might do. Ultimately, it is his job at stake so making free wheeling decisions are much tougher when you are the one in the firing line. I am sat on the settee shouting for Grealish to come on earlier and stay on but there are no consequences to my shouting (obviously Gareth should be listening to my shouting though )
		
Click to expand...

On the occasions when the England cricket team's "*** it" approach backfires horribly, there are always plenty who complain about the lack of responsibility - even if the defeat is sandwiched between a handful of spectacular victories.
If Southgate decided to go full on Eoin Morgan he'd be sacked after the second defeat.


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## Piece (Jul 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			But most teams don’t have two holding midfielders.
Far to often we didn’t have anybody in the box.
Fine if the wide players do it
Sterling is the only one that does.
		
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The fact that we do play two holding midfielders means that having Kane stuck upfront is simply wrong. Thus him coming deep, he "fills the gap". Until Gareth tweaks his formation and puts Foden/Grealish/Other in the no 10 position and lose the second holding man, then we are stuck with what we have, and that mean Kane dropping. Also most other teams are sitting at home watching England. 

Also if you look at our holding midfielders, across the games, the played a variety of holding positions. E.g. against Croatia, Phillips was further up and Rice behind.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Saw the laser stuff, if it was an issue surely he would have hit the floor like he had been shot???
		
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Yes he actually saved the pen so it can’t have affected him really!
But it’s just idiots.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Tbf though, we could of gone for the third goal quite easily during the 15 minutes, instead we kept possession in the corners and restricted their chances, 2-1 behind and Grealish stays on.

Click to expand...

Minutes 15-26, or whatever they were, were pretty tense from memory, the midfield dropped onto the defence, the defence droped even deeper. We gave the initiative to the Danes the moment Grealish went off. The last few minutes were a superb example of how to kill the clock and hold possession. Don't run into a corner and stick your backside out, yes Shearer I am talking about you, pass and move, pass and move. Brilliant.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2021)

RichA said:



			Read it again. I'm saying that nobody outside of England probably gave more than a few seconds thought to those occasions, hence the use of the word "worldwide".
		
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It’s the next day after the event - it’s raw and people will talk about it until the next event happens , that’s how it goes , it was certainly worldwide for Hand Of God and other events always get talked about the day after the event - in a couple of days it will be something else or whatever happens in the final - Denmark will prob talk about it for a while just like England talk about their injustices as they say - Germany Prob still go on about the 66 final and the ball crossing the line or not. 


harpo_72 said:



			Did they do anything? No they let it ride so they will have to let this go as well .. they can only instigate preventative measure for the next tournaments ..
		
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Who is “they” ? Preventive measures for what ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2021)

RichA said:



			On the occasions when the England cricket team's "*** it" approach backfires horribly, there are always plenty who complain about the lack of responsibility - even if the defeat is sandwiched between a handful of spectacular victories.
If Southgate decided to go full on Eoin Morgan he'd be sacked after the second defeat.
		
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm managing from the settee, clear off .

Okay, I'll go full Eoin (World Cup winning captain ). We wouldn't lose because we have faith in those players who looked so strong in extra time. No time to change, more of the same and take the Danes apart as they become more tired, become more desperate. Jack and Phil playing keep ball ole.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2021)

Piece said:



			The fact that we do play two holding midfielders means that having Kane stuck upfront is simply wrong. Thus him coming deep, he "fills the gap". Until Gareth tweaks his formation and puts Foden/Grealish/Other in the no 10 position and lose the second holding man, then we are stuck with what we have, and that mean Kane dropping. Also most other teams are sitting at home watching England. 

Also if you look at our holding midfielders, across the games, the played a variety of holding positions. E.g. against Croatia, Phillips was further up and Rice behind.
		
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Where was Mount playing then? Other?


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## RichA (Jul 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Hey, I'm managing from the settee, clear off .

Okay, I'll go full Eoin (World Cup winning captain ). We wouldn't lose because we have faith in those players who looked so strong in extra time. No time to change, more of the same and take the Danes apart as they become more tired, become more desperate. Jack and Phil playing keep ball ole.
		
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I'd love it, but football is fickle and so are we. 99% of us are desperate to see devil may care, free flowing football. However, Monday's conversations would be about the next manager if Italy stuck 6 past our adventurous, attacking team. Southgate knows it.


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## Bdill93 (Jul 8, 2021)

GET IN THERE ENGLAND

ITS COMING HOME


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s the next day after the event - it’s raw and people will talk about it until the next event happens , that’s how it goes , it was certainly worldwide for Hand Of God and other events always get talked about the day after the event - in a couple of days it will be something else or whatever happens in the final - Denmark will prob talk about it for a while just like England talk about their injustices as they say - Germany Prob still go on about the 66 final and the ball crossing the line or not.


Who is “they” ? Preventive measures for what ?
		
Click to expand...

The ones who are having a little investigation .. or a few beers and a nice meal followed by some entertainment


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## Piece (Jul 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Where was Mount playing then? Other?
		
Click to expand...

The answer depends on whether we are attacking or not. We started with a 4-2-3-1, with Mount the centre of the three. But when attacking it became 4-2-4, so in effect there was no No. 10. Hence the fluidity....

That's how I saw it anyway.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 8, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			We really should hang our heads in shame. No other country has fans who act in a similar way...

It doesn't make it right - but let's not self-flagellate so much or enjoy it so much!
		
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Name one set of international fans who have as much "knobheadness" as England fans. They may have done similar or even worse in some respects, but England fans tick all of the boxes.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			The ones who are having a little investigation .. or a few beers and a nice meal followed by some entertainment
		
Click to expand...

🤷‍♂️ I have no idea what that’s meaning 🤷‍♂️


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## Rooter (Jul 8, 2021)

Let's talk about Kalvin Phillips. I think it's pretty sure that if Hendo were fit at matchday 1, he would not have had a look in. Last night I saw the stats, he covered 15km!! making a couple of assumptions, that is at a pace that would run a 52 minute 10k while playing footy! Has to be the fittest bloke in the squad, I don't think he has a knackered setting!!

Plus, he breaks up play very well and is decent in distribution! I knew naff all about him 3 weeks ago too!!


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## AmandaJR (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Name one set of international fans who have as much "knobheadness" as England fans. They may have done similar or even worse in some respects, but England fans tick all of the boxes.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are plenty. Welsh fans love a good old boo of God Save The Queen


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 37429


They will always be a stain on the team - from booing the players kneeling to the disrespectful booing of the anthems - no grace in winning and certainly not in losing

The stuff on social media with the German girl was appalling
		
Click to expand...

This Phil


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## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Let's talk about Kalvin Phillips. I think it's pretty sure that if Hendo were fit at matchday 1, he would not have had a look in. Last night I saw the stats, he covered 15km!! making a couple of assumptions, that is at a pace that would run a 52 minute 10k while playing footy! Has to be the fittest bloke in the squad, I don't think he has a knackered setting!!

Plus, he breaks up play very well and is decent in distribution! I knew naff all about him 3 weeks ago too!!
		
Click to expand...

I suppose that comes from playing under Bielsa. You have to be a machine to get in his team. I do think he does a very similar role to Hendo though, and as you say, the spot he has in the team would have been Hendo's if fit. But Southgate has quite rightly not wanted to drop him due to his good performances.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			This Phil
		
Click to expand...

what’s the issue ? Person carries out something which I believe is banned or illegal so charges are brought - is that not the correct way to go ? 

I’m sure there was a crackdown on them recently - so you would expect something to be done , it clearly can’t be ignored


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 8, 2021)




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## Mudball (Jul 8, 2021)

Genuine question.. Where is Vardy? Does not seem to be part of the squad either.   The only Vardy in the news seems to a certain wagatha christie ... which is pointless, since i dont follow any celebrity nonsense


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## harpo_72 (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			what’s the issue ? Person carries out something which I believe is banned or illegal so charges are brought - is that not the correct way to go ?

I’m sure there was a crackdown on them recently - so you would expect something to be done , it clearly can’t be ignored
		
Click to expand...

No it can’t but it’s not going to change what’s happened just trying to prevent it in the future.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 8, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Genuine question.. Where is Vardy? Does not seem to be part of the squad either.   The only Vardy in the news seems to a certain wagatha christie ... which is pointless, since i dont follow any celebrity nonsense
		
Click to expand...

Retired from international football...


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## Tashyboy (Jul 8, 2021)

Not read the last five pages, but apparently the Scottish have supported five teams through this tournament and not won once 😉


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## fundy (Jul 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Not read the last five pages, but apparently the Scottish have supported five teams through this tournament and not won once 😉
		
Click to expand...


not true Tashy, they beat England 0-0


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## Piece (Jul 8, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Genuine question.. Where is Vardy? Does not seem to be part of the squad either.   The only Vardy in the news seems to a certain wagatha christie ... which is pointless, since i dont follow any celebrity nonsense
		
Click to expand...

He voluntarily retired from international duty. He did leave the door open though, "if really needed".


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## fundy (Jul 8, 2021)

lol


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Not read the last five pages, but apparently the Scottish have supported five teams through this tournament and not won once 😉
		
Click to expand...

‘….the Scottish…’? All of them? I think not.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Let's talk about Kalvin Phillips. I think it's pretty sure that if Hendo were fit at matchday 1, he would not have had a look in. Last night I saw the stats, he covered 15km!! making a couple of assumptions, that is at a pace that would run a 52 minute 10k while playing footy! Has to be the fittest bloke in the squad, I don't think he has a knackered setting!!

Plus, he breaks up play very well and is decent in distribution! I knew naff all about him 3 weeks ago too!!
		
Click to expand...

He’s been superb, had a great season with Leeds and fully derserves all the plaudits he’s receiving, got to be up their amongst our players of the tournament.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 8, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			‘….the Scottish…’? All of them? I think not.
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if The Disappointment of being out of the euros is simililar to Scotland being out of Europe 😉👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2021)

Love this 😂😂


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## toyboy54 (Jul 8, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			GET IN THERE ENGLAND

ITS COMING HOME
		
Click to expand...

Loved the Danish players ( ? ) comment about "what's 'coming home? You never had it in the 1st place-This is the Euros, NOT 1966 and the World Cup' "!!
Brilliant pointing out of the obvious.......( Hmmm, wonder how many others would appreciate the irony of this )
As previous-'Peace and love to all'


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## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2021)

toyboy54 said:



			Loved the Danish players ( ? ) comment about "what's 'coming home? You never had it in the 1st place-This is the Euros, NOT 1966 and the World Cup' "!!
Brilliant pointing out of the obvious.......( Hmmm, wonder how many others would appreciate the irony of this )
As previous-'Peace and love to all'
		
Click to expand...

Missed the whole point of 3 lions tho 

It's a song highlighting our constant failure but capturing the hope of a nation

Plus it's catchy as hell


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## toyboy54 (Jul 8, 2021)

It's a song highlighting our constant failure but capturing the hope of a nation

Hoy, Thought we had the monopoly on letting down


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## Tashyboy (Jul 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Love this 😂😂







Click to expand...

pure genius,who thinks these up 😂😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2021)

Piece said:



			The answer depends on whether we are attacking or not. We started with a 4-2-3-1, with Mount the centre of the three. But when attacking it became 4-2-4, so in effect there was no No. 10. Hence the fluidity....

That's how I saw it anyway.
		
Click to expand...

Tbh I didn’t know Mount was playing in the first half he was never in the build up.
He was marginally better second half.
But I would have Foden as I think he’s a better player in the middle.
But we all see what we see and it’s not what everyone else sees.


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## IainP (Jul 8, 2021)

Armchair nonsense time - 
Almost everyone is expecting a tough game, my hope is that Italy will have more of the "we are better than you" attitude and will focus more on playing their game rather than focusing more in stifling England, and this leads to a better game (I did write hope 🙂)

Expect I'll be panned for this, but I thought Saka overall had a poor game and was rightly subbed. He was great against Germany, and obviously against Denmark he had that spell which included the goal which was brill and put him back positive, but overall I felt he struggled to settle and seemed to have plenty of mistakes. Perhaps credit to Denmark.
Does this give GS a dilemma for Sunday? Guess GS tends to stick with his guys, and Italy's defense might just be the temptation to stick.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			not true Tashy, they beat England 0-0 

Click to expand...

If they beat us 0-0 .
That also means England have won every game.!


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## fundy (Jul 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If they beat us 0-0 .
That also means England have won every game.!
		
Click to expand...

how do you work that out, we lost 0-0 🤣🤣🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2021)

IainP said:



			Armchair nonsense time -
Almost everyone is expecting a tough game, my hope is that Italy will have more of the "we are better than you" attitude and will focus more on playing their game rather than focusing more in stifling England, and this leads to a better game (I did write hope 🙂)

Expect I'll be panned for this, but I thought Saka overall had a poor game and was rightly subbed. He was great against Germany, and obviously against Denmark he had that spell which included the goal which was brill and put him back positive, but overall I felt he struggled to settle and seemed to have plenty of mistakes. Perhaps credit to Denmark.
Does this give GS a dilemma for Sunday? Guess GS tends to stick with his guys, and Italy's defense might just be the temptation to stick.
		
Click to expand...

I do think Sancho was a tad unlucky to lose his place after a 4-0 win.
It’s not often you win 4-0 in international tournaments.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			how do you work that out, we lost 0-0 🤣🤣🤣
		
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No if 0-0 is a win.
And 0-0 is a loss.
Oh just forget it.


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## nickjdavis (Jul 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s the next day after the event - it’s raw and people will talk about it until the next event happens , that’s how it goes , it was certainly worldwide for Hand Of God and other events always get talked about the day after the event - in a couple of days it will be something else or whatever happens in the final - Denmark will prob talk about it for a while just like England talk about their injustices as they say -* Germany Prob still go on about the 66 final and the ball crossing the line or not.*


?
		
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Having worked for German companies or for companies with a heavy German presence/influence over the last 32 years, I can assure you that they dont.

1972, 1974, 1980, 1990, 1996 and 2014 means that any angst they may feel about '66 has long since subsided as a minor irrelevance.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 8, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm sure there are plenty. Welsh fans love a good old boo of God Save The Queen 







Click to expand...

If there are plenty, name one.


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## garyinderry (Jul 8, 2021)

Watching the sterling penalty incident again I think the ref has given it because the defender makes the challenge then pulls his foot away in that guilty manner. 
The ref is well places although cant really tell his much if any contact due to it being on the bye line. There has to be an element of guesswork. 
Had the defender had his nibble and left his foot planted on the floor. Raheem's over exuberant fall could and should have been waved away. 
The opportunity was there to go VAR and have a proper look. This should have been done.
Alan Shearer has it right when he says you would not be happy to have that given against you and I feel the same way.


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## RichA (Jul 8, 2021)

I can't take Shearer too seriously. I remember plenty of matches where I wasn't happy with penalties that he won for his team, or goals he scored following a shove in the back of a defender. Super slow motion VAR would have chalked plenty of his goals off. 
I don't like diving, but I can't see how 90 minutes of body checking, shirt pulling, obstructing and time wasting isn't cheating yet falling over when somebody kicks you while making no effort to kick the ball makes you a pariah.


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## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2021)

RichA said:



			I can't take Shearer too seriously. I remember plenty of matches where I wasn't happy with penalties that he won for his team, or goals he scored following a shove in the back of a defender. Super slow motion VAR would have chalked plenty of his goals off.
I don't like diving, but I can't see how 90 minutes of body checking, shirt pulling, obstructing and time wasting isn't cheating yet falling over when somebody kicks you while making no effort to kick the ball makes you a pariah.
		
Click to expand...

I'm with you. Going down when somebody kicks you is cheating, but asking for a corner when you know full well you kicked it off is absolutely fine. It's bizarre.


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## 2blue (Jul 9, 2021)

RichA said:



			I can't take Shearer too seriously. I remember plenty of matches where I wasn't happy with penalties that he won for his team, or goals he scored following a shove in the back of a defender. Super slow motion VAR would have chalked plenty of his goals off.
I don't like diving, but I can't see how *90 minutes of body checking, shirt pulling, obstructing and time wasting isn't cheating *yet falling over when somebody kicks you while making no effort to kick the ball makes you a pariah.
		
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Exactly this  ^^^^^^
He was attacking & asking questions right on the limit & they were defending, cynically, right on the limit & they lost out... it's a simple as that!! I just hope the Officials are up to their job on Sunday.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 9, 2021)

2blue said:



			Exactly this  ^^^^^^
He was attacking & asking questions right on the limit & they were defending, cynically, right on the limit & they lost out... it's a simple as that!! I just hope the Officials are up to their job on Sunday.
		
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The whole game was marred by the blocking and holding, ankle biting.. it was waved away when actually it needed to be carded. A stricter ref would have delivered more cards, would asked the players to leave the pitch with their injuries etc.. To complain about a penalty is ridiculous when the player has been played and not the ball. 
On Sunday we will see the 2 CBs push/hold and kick .. it’s their game. My view is drop off the defender and run at him. Do that all night and you beat him or gat free kicks just make sure when you go down you land on him etc.. Varrati will be ankle biting as well, it’s his job but the Spanish sorted him out .. follow their tactics.
England deserve to be in the final as do Italy .. opportunities were made and taken


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## Mudball (Jul 9, 2021)

What kind of nation have we suddenly turned into.. where is this tribalism being unleashed from. In some ways you wish we never reached this stage …

I know everyone is going to say .. this does not represent the majority
https://apple.news/A4vS1r8K0T569UEOYKB7oag

.. and it is not just to the Danes, we have turned on our own (who don’t look like us).. from Twitter yesterday. As I understand, the FA has reached out to support 



… and still we have a section of forumites who can’t understand why our players take the knee..


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## BiMGuy (Jul 9, 2021)

Mudball said:



			What kind of nation have we suddenly turned into.. where is this tribalism being unleashed from. In some ways you wish we never reached this stage …

I know everyone is going to say .. this does not represent the majority
https://apple.news/A4vS1r8K0T569UEOYKB7oag

Click to expand...

Suddenly?


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## Beezerk (Jul 9, 2021)

Mudball said:



			What kind of nation have we suddenly turned into.. where is this tribalism being unleashed from. In some ways you wish we never reached this stage …

I know everyone is going to say .. this does not represent the majority
https://apple.news/A4vS1r8K0T569UEOYKB7oag

.. and it is not just to the Danes, we have turned on our own (who don’t look like us).. from Twitter yesterday. As I understand, the FA has reached out to support
View attachment 37486


… and still we have a section of forumites who can’t understand why our players take the knee..
		
Click to expand...

Do you want a larger brush to tar everyone with or is yours ok as it is?


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## Robster59 (Jul 9, 2021)

Mudball said:



			What kind of nation have we suddenly turned into.. where is this tribalism being unleashed from. In some ways you wish we never reached this stage …

I know everyone is going to say .. this does not represent the majority
https://apple.news/A4vS1r8K0T569UEOYKB7oag

.. and it is not just to the Danes, we have turned on our own (who don’t look like us).. from Twitter yesterday. As I understand, the FA has reached out to support
View attachment 37486


… and still we have a section of forumites who can’t understand why our players take the knee..
		
Click to expand...

People like that sadly still exist, and they'll use any excuse for continuing that at every opportunity.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 9, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			People like that sadly still exist, and they'll use any excuse for continuing that at every opportunity.
		
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This is exactly it, but it’s on a club level as well. I dunno why it is acceptable on any level. That is a physical assault and is an offence .. the problem lies in a lack of education


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## Mudball (Jul 9, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Do you want a larger brush to tar everyone with or is yours ok as it is?
		
Click to expand...

could do with a larger brush..   to wack these weirdo on their head..


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2021)

Mudball said:



			What kind of nation have we suddenly turned into.. where is this tribalism being unleashed from. In some ways you wish we never reached this stage …

I know everyone is going to say .. this does not represent the majority
https://apple.news/A4vS1r8K0T569UEOYKB7oag

.. and it is not just to the Danes, we have turned on our own (who don’t look like us).. from Twitter yesterday. As I understand, the FA has reached out to support
View attachment 37486


… and still we have a section of forumites who can’t understand why our players take the knee..
		
Click to expand...

Racism within all countries is always alive - a lot of good work within the uk has been done but a lot of recent events has seen it increase 

9/11 
Brexit

There are always elements within football -ever since the days of the hooligan element , that’s certainly not gone away and never will. 

Right now the media are massively pushing the patriotism because of how well the football team are doing - demands for bank holidays etc and it gives that certain element excuses to displays their “Three Lions” - most will prob be part of the EDL and be following right behind the likes of Robinson and Farage - 

These things will never stop - social media is worse , you only have to see what people were posting towards that little german girl crying 

We didn’t have any of this when England won the Rugby World Cup or Cricket World Cup or when we do well in the Olympics etc 

But football - well at times it breeds a different element , and it’s shame as it spoils it for the rest. It wouldn’t surprise me that on the biggest stage in football for England in years the fans will first boo the Italian national anthem - for some they dismiss it but it breeds hatred


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## RichA (Jul 9, 2021)

I used to watch football in pubs regularly.
I watched the Germans beat us on penalties in the Italia 90 semi-final in a pub in Rugby. It was followed by grown men in tears drunkenly hugging each other and commiserating. 
I watched the Germans beat us on penalties in the Euro 96 semi-final in a pub in Mansfield. It was followed by grown men throwing glasses, bottles, chairs, punches and kicks at each other.
I don't understand what changed or when, but I haven't watched football in a pub since.


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## Piece (Jul 9, 2021)

garyinderry said:



			Watching the sterling penalty incident again I think the ref has given it because the defender makes the challenge then pulls his foot away in that guilty manner.
The ref is well places although cant really tell his much if any contact due to it being on the bye line. There has to be an element of guesswork.
Had the defender had his nibble and left his foot planted on the floor. Raheem's over exuberant fall could and should have been waved away.
*The opportunity was there to go VAR and have a proper look. This should have been done.*
Alan Shearer has it right when he says you would not be happy to have that given against you and I feel the same way.
		
Click to expand...

But they did? Contact was made, how light, thus VAR didn't overrule.


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## Mudball (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Racism within all countries is always alive - a lot of good work within the uk has been done but a lot of recent events has seen it increase

9/11
Brexit

There are always elements within football -ever since the days of the hooligan element , that’s certainly not gone away and never will.

Right now the media are massively pushing the patriotism because of how well the football team are doing - demands for bank holidays etc and it gives that certain element excuses to displays their “Three Lions” - most will prob be part of the EDL and be following right behind the likes of Robinson and Farage -

These things will never stop - social media is worse , you only have to see what people were posting towards that little german girl crying

We didn’t have any of this when England won the Rugby World Cup or Cricket World Cup or when we do well in the Olympics etc

But football - well at times it breeds a different element , and it’s shame as it spoils it for the rest. It wouldn’t surprise me that on the biggest stage in football for England in years the fans will first boo the Italian national anthem - for some they dismiss it but it breeds hatred
		
Click to expand...

Agree with what you say...   The queen and the Prime minister claim German, Turkish roots.   The only non-controversial and effective minister is of Indian descent (apparently he supports India in cricket).  The NHS would be lost without the global talent pool 

Closer home, those cheering the team.. and we all should.. here is a thought..


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2021)

RichA said:



			I used to watch football in pubs regularly.
I watched the Germans beat us on penalties in the Italia 90 semi-final in a pub in Rugby. It was followed by grown men in tears drunkenly hugging each other and commiserating.
I watched the Germans beat us on penalties in the Euro 96 semi-final in a pub in Mansfield. It was followed by grown men throwing glasses, bottles, chairs, punches and kicks at each other.
I don't understand what changed or when, but I haven't watched football in a pub since.
		
Click to expand...

I was serving in Germany when we lost in 1990 and suffered German Fans driving around the married quarters celebrating beating us, which wasn’t a problem until the beer bottles started getting thrown at the houses and the abuse started.

Now I’m sure some will blame that on the hooligan behaviour of the English in the late 80’s or we were seen as “unwelcome visitors” etc, but it wasn’t it was simply, imo, a few mindless morons(probably drunk) looking for trouble.

Every Nation has them sadly.


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## 2blue (Jul 9, 2021)

Mudball said:



			What kind of nation have we suddenly turned into.. where is this tribalism being unleashed from. In some ways you wish we never reached this stage …

I know everyone is going to say .. this does not represent the majority
https://apple.news/A4vS1r8K0T569UEOYKB7oag

.. and it is not just to the Danes, we have turned on our own (who don’t look like us).. from Twitter yesterday. As I understand, the FA has reached out to support
View attachment 37486


… *and still we have a section of forumites who can’t understand why our players take the knee.*.
		
Click to expand...

nor do they seem to understand how such an attitude is a contributory factor to this whole problem.......  why isn't Prince William taking a lead by joining in taking the knee??


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## garyinderry (Jul 9, 2021)

Piece said:



			But they did? Contact was made, how light, thus VAR didn't overrule.
		
Click to expand...


The ref should have taken a look to confirm what he thinks he has seen. 
He is the man with the whistle. It should be his responsibility and call.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2021)

garyinderry said:



			The ref should have taken a look to confirm what he thinks he has seen.
He is the man with the whistle. It should be his responsibility and call.
		
Click to expand...

That’s not how VAR works, if VAR don’t disagree with the onfield decision then the initial decision stands.
The Ref made a call and VAR agreed. 
Why would he question his own decision when it was backed up?

What you’re suggesting is bin VAR and let the Ref’s check themselves.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2021)

garyinderry said:



			The ref should have taken a look to confirm what he thinks he has seen.
He is the man with the whistle. It should be his responsibility and call.
		
Click to expand...

That’s the thing I wasn’t sure about - the only other time I can remember when the ref went to the screen was for the same sort of penalty shoot - he was asked to go to screen , and overruled his initial decision- I think he should have gone to the screen so that he could confirm or overule


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## Mudball (Jul 9, 2021)

To @Liverpoolphil's point.. we dont see this level of madness while cheering a Mo Frah, Jessica Ennis, Andy Murray, Cricket or Rugby wins.  What is it about the so called beautiful game that brings out the tribal instinct.  It is not just at a national level but also in grassroots.  Every so often my kid's runs into a team wherein parents & coaches shout 'take him out' to their kids.  A perfectly valid move in Rugby but not allowed in footy.   

This simply cant be a 'class' issue nor is it a 'passion' issue .. we are all passionate about our sports and we want to win..


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## Mudball (Jul 9, 2021)

something to cheer >>> well done school..


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## 2blue (Jul 9, 2021)

garyinderry said:



			The ref should have taken a look to confirm what he thinks he has seen.
He is the man with the whistle. It should be his responsibility and call.
		
Click to expand...

VAR obviously agreed with what the ref had seen so no need to go look. VAR is there for clear & obvious errors, or so they keep telling us.


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## garyinderry (Jul 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s not how VAR works, if VAR don’t disagree with the onfield decision then the initial decision stands.
The Ref made a call and VAR agreed.
Why would he question his own decision when it was backed up?

What you’re suggesting is bin VAR and let the Ref’s check themselves.
		
Click to expand...


I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of VAR as I cant keep up but it doesnt take a genius or football expert to know that the decision was a marginal call at best and worthy of closer inspection by the man in charge. 

It's easy for VAR to sit back and agree with an on field decision as there is no accountability.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2021)

RichA said:



			I used to watch football in pubs regularly.
I watched the Germans beat us on penalties in the Italia 90 semi-final in a pub in Rugby. It was followed by grown men in tears drunkenly hugging each other and commiserating.
I watched the Germans beat us on penalties in the Euro 96 semi-final in a pub in Mansfield. It was followed by grown men throwing glasses, bottles, chairs, punches and kicks at each other.
I don't understand what changed or when, but I haven't watched football in a pub since.
		
Click to expand...

Same here, and was properly cheering England on.

I just can't get up for this tournament, when Kane scored the other night I barely raised a flicker.

Maybe it's Brexit, politics and the whole "London FC" has worn me down, maybe its age, but more likely a general dislike of England FOOTBALL team's general match-going and armchair fan base. I dont care if some says its just a few morons - it never has been, its always been thousands or tens of thousands of armchair (or plastic chair) fans. The constant blaming of other players when things go wrong because they play for man U (when at its worst - beckham, Phil Neville, Rooney), Liverpool, etc. Booing of *all *national anthems, NO Surrender, 10 x German Bombers, and the racist element for decades. Mobs fighting amongst themselves as well as with the locals and other fans when abroad in tournament after tournament, not England fans, but Doncaster England, Stoke England.

The actual manager and players are probably the most likeable ever and show a better degree of humility than I can remember, but cheering the team on just isn't there for me. It's something I can't manufacture. I even played golf on Wednesday night, just missed the first 20-30 minutes, wasn't bothered. Maybe a few beers in hand and watching it with a few others may change it on Sunday, don't know.

Maybe a fine Tuscan Red and "scenes from an Italian restaurant" on the CD player instead?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2021)

garyinderry said:



			I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of VAR as I cant keep up but it doesnt take a genius or football expert to know that the decision was a marginal call at best and worthy of closer inspection by the man in charge.

It's easy for VAR to sit back and agree with an on field decision as there is no accountability.
		
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What if, just for one minute, we suppose the very experienced International Referee, officiating at one of the biggest tournaments in the world, made a decision that he believed was 100% correct.

To him it was stonewall, confirmed by VAR, yet we doubt his intelligence and everyone who agreed with him.🤷‍♂️


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## RichA (Jul 9, 2021)

It seems that it's nothing new. Worth a quick read...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempts_to_ban_football_games?wprov=sfti1


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## Voyager EMH (Jul 9, 2021)

I saw a gentle touch to the back with a forearm and a gentle bump with the hip whilst raising the arms high.
If he had made neither of these unnecessary contacts then VAR could have overruled, in my opinion.
Sterling would have felt both contacts and known there was a penalty chance.

I saw a player with no chance of getting near the ball launch his head into McGuire's arm. I hope McGuire's arm is OK.
I wonder if any England player will copy this tactic of getting an opponent booked.
Bit risky, but worth taking one to the head for the team?

Modern football - it does confuse me at times.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2021)

garyinderry said:



			I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of VAR as I cant keep up but it doesnt take a genius or football expert to know that the decision was a marginal call at best and worthy of closer inspection by the man in charge.

It's easy for VAR to sit back and agree with an on field decision as there is no accountability.
		
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Unfortunately you are not allowed to debate if the referee got it wrong anymore ( especially when it’s in their favour ) despite evidence over the last 24 months that even with VAR referees are still getting decisions wrong - the yellow card for Maguire was embarrassing 


Liverbirdie said:



			Same here, and was properly cheering England on.

I just can't get up for this tournament, when Kane scored the other night I barely raised a flicker.

Maybe it's Brexit, politics and the whole "London FC" has worn me down, maybe its age, but more likely a general dislike of England FOOTBALL team's general match-going and armchair fan base. I dont care if some says its just a few morons - it never has been, its always been thousands or tens of thousands of armchair (or plastic chair) fans. The constant blaming of other players when things go wrong because they play for man U (when at its worst - beckham, Phil Neville, Rooney), Liverpool, etc. Booing of *all *national anthems, NO Surrender, 10 x German Bombers, and the racist element for decades. Mobs fighting amongst themselves as well as with the locals and other fans when abroad in tournament after tournament, not England fans, but Doncaster England, Stoke England.

The actual manager and players are probably the most likeable ever and show a better degree of humility than I can remember, but cheering the team on just isn't there for me. It's something I can't manufacture. I even played golf on Wednesday night, just missed the first 20-30 minutes, wasn't bothered. Maybe a few beers in hand and watching it with a few others may change it on Sunday, don't know.

Maybe a fine Tuscan Red and "scenes from an Italian restaurant" on the CD player instead? 

Click to expand...

Summed up very well 👍


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Same here, and was properly cheering England on.

I just can't get up for this tournament, when Kane scored the other night I barely raised a flicker.

Maybe it's Brexit, politics and the whole "London FC" has worn me down, maybe its age, but more likely a general dislike of England FOOTBALL team's general match-going and armchair fan base. I dont care if some says its just a few morons - it never has been, its always been thousands or tens of thousands of armchair (or plastic chair) fans. The constant blaming of other players when things go wrong because they play for man U (when at its worst - beckham, Phil Neville, Rooney), Liverpool, etc. Booing of *all *national anthems, NO Surrender, 10 x German Bombers, and the racist element for decades. Mobs fighting amongst themselves as well as with the locals and other fans when abroad in tournament after tournament, not England fans, but Doncaster England, Stoke England.

The actual manager and players are probably the most likeable ever and show a better degree of humility than I can remember, but cheering the team on just isn't there for me. It's something I can't manufacture. I even played golf on Wednesday night, just missed the first 20-30 minutes, wasn't bothered. Maybe a few beers in hand and watching it with a few others may change it on Sunday, don't know.

Maybe a fine Tuscan Red and "scenes from an Italian restaurant" on the CD player instead? 

Click to expand...

You're not alone Pete.  The perceived entitlement to act like complete halfwits, and slag off anyone who doesn't see that as acceptable, because "it's Ing-ger-lund", spoils the enjoyment for a number of people.

A nice Islay rather than the red but a good musical choice.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Racism within all countries is always alive - a lot of good work within the uk has been done but a lot of recent events has seen it increase

9/11
Brexit

There are always elements within football -ever since the days of the hooligan element , that’s certainly not gone away and never will.

Right now the media are massively pushing the patriotism because of how well the football team are doing - demands for bank holidays etc and it gives that certain element excuses to displays their “Three Lions” - most will prob be part of the EDL and be following right behind the likes of Robinson and Farage -

These things will never stop - social media is worse , you only have to see what people were posting towards that little german girl crying

We didn’t have any of this when England won the Rugby World Cup or Cricket World Cup or when we do well in the Olympics etc

But football - well at times it breeds a different element , and it’s shame as it spoils it for the rest. It wouldn’t surprise me that on the biggest stage in football for England in years the fans will first boo the Italian national anthem - for some they dismiss it but it breeds hatred
		
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It boils down to a lack of education… just round them up and send them to school, they avoided it the first time but no second chances .. or just follow the Chinese methods


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			You're not alone Pete.  The perceived entitlement to act like complete halfwits, and slag off anyone who doesn't see that as acceptable, because "it's Ing-ger-lund", spoils the enjoyment for a number of people.

A nice Islay rather than the red but a good musical choice. 

Click to expand...

Can you show were anyone on here as said the behaviour you describe is acceptable?

Weird how the fans in a Club base are excused as not representative when they behave the same way.

The scum will always be scum and every Club and Nation has them. 

We accept the game has changed and it isn’t changing back the other way.

I can’t wait for the Final, win or lose, dodgy decision or not.


If that makes me somehow a lesser person than others on here, then I happy to carry on as I am.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



*Can you show were anyone on here *as said the behaviour you describe is acceptable?

Weird how the fans in a Club base are excused as not representative when they behave the same way.

The scum will always be scum and every Club and Nation has them.

We accept the game has changed and it isn’t changing back the other way.

I can’t wait for the Final, win or lose, dodgy decision or not.


If that makes me somehow a lesser person than others on here, then I happy to carry on as I am.
		
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Can you show me where I said anyone on here described it as acceptable?

Or where I excused it as acceptable behaviour when practised by club supporters?

I merely supported Liverbirdie's view on what dampens people's enthusiasm over the tournament.


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## Beezerk (Jul 9, 2021)

Country is buzzing but there's always one or two fun sponges trying to spoil everyone's party 😆😉


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## IanM (Jul 9, 2021)

I thought generalisations were seen as unacceptable?


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## Rooter (Jul 9, 2021)

IanM said:



			I thought generalisations were seen as unacceptable? 

Click to expand...

Generally, they are.


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## Mudball (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Same here, and was properly cheering England on.

I just can't get up for this tournament, when Kane scored the other night I barely raised a flicker.

Maybe it's Brexit, politics and the whole "London FC" has worn me down, maybe its age, but more likely a general dislike of England FOOTBALL team's general match-going and armchair fan base. I dont care if some says its just a few morons - it never has been, its always been thousands or tens of thousands of armchair (or plastic chair) fans. The constant blaming of other players when things go wrong because they play for man U (when at its worst - beckham, Phil Neville, Rooney), Liverpool, etc. Booing of *all *national anthems, NO Surrender, 10 x German Bombers, and the racist element for decades. Mobs fighting amongst themselves as well as with the locals and other fans when abroad in tournament after tournament, not England fans, but Doncaster England, Stoke England.

The actual manager and players are probably the most likeable ever and show a better degree of humility than I can remember, but cheering the team on just isn't there for me. It's something I can't manufacture. I even played golf on Wednesday night, just missed the first 20-30 minutes, wasn't bothered. Maybe a few beers in hand and watching it with a few others may change it on Sunday, don't know.

Maybe a fine Tuscan Red and "scenes from an Italian restaurant" on the CD player instead? 

Click to expand...

Agree with you.  Southgate has been the best manager we have had in a very long time.  He may wear a waistcoat, but what a transformation he has done.  The team (not lads) he has put together is also brilliant.. Long may it come home..


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can you show me where I said anyone on here described it as acceptable?

Or where I excused it as acceptable behaviour when practised by club supporters?

I merely supported Liverbirdie's view on what dampens people's enthusiasm over the tournament.
		
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By what is being inferred on here by yourself and others, who are these people not on here you and others are talking about? Are they a majority or minority.

It’s coming across as if you support England you should be ashamed.

Bad Club behaviour, not by you, has been dismissed as a “few divvies” etc on here in the past.


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## Rooter (Jul 9, 2021)




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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2021)

Altogether now... 🎤🎵


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## stefanovic (Jul 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			See above, all from the top of head.

Click to expand...

Answers correct.

ITV commentator: Hugh Johns.
In a later league game he became famous for saying 'The referee is about to blow his watch.'

At least it was not only England that had the World Cup stolen.
Brazil did and I think it's still missing.


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## yandabrown (Jul 9, 2021)




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## Blue in Munich (Jul 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			By what is being inferred on here by yourself and others, *who are these people not on here you and others are talking about?* Are they a majority or minority.

It’s coming across as if you support England you should be ashamed.

Bad Club behaviour, not by you, has been dismissed as a “few divvies” etc on here in the past.
		
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Those who think that booing another country's national anthem is acceptable because you are supporting "Ing-ger-lund".

Those that think anti-social behaviour gets a pass because you are supporting "Ing-ger-lund".

Those that think ignoring any of the current Covid restrictions is acceptable because you are supporting "Ing-ger-lund".

They may not be a majority but there is no shortage of them, and the further we get in a tournament the more prevalent it appears to be.

No one should be ashamed of supporting their national football team but some should certainly be ashamed of the manner in which they do it; like the post earlier where someone of Asian heritage was abused for wearing an England shirt.  if thinking that makes me a fun sponge, so be it; maybe 30 years of clearing up the  these morons cause gives me a viewpoint that some will never understand.


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## stefanovic (Jul 9, 2021)

Almanac prediction based on astrology for the final:

"On July 11, the day of the finals, Mercury enters Cancer which means that emotions are likely to be heightened and clear communication could present a challenge."

Southgate is a Virgo which means he is calm and collected. 15 love England.

But Italians play with great passion. 15 all.

England always break your heart. 15 - 30.

But home fans will be awesome. 30 all.

Italy have had an extra rest day. 30 - 40.

But England have the faster players. 40 all.

England will stay calmer under pressure.
Game, set and match England.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			By what is being inferred on here by yourself and others, who are these people not on here you and others are talking about? Are they a majority or minority.

It’s coming across as if you support England you should be ashamed.

Bad Club behaviour, not by you, has been dismissed as a “few divvies” etc on here in the past.
		
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Does it matter if its 51% vs 49% for it to fit nicely with you? 

If 10% is 9'000 people on Sunday fighting, booing national anthems, shining lasers, laughing at young children in arms, picking on Asians wearing England tops. If every town and city centre sees Italian cars damaged, restaurants bricked, fighting with the local police and each other but its only done by 12.658254455 % then okay?

Its like the you can't say Salah is a diver because your own club has one argument - yes you bloody well can. Just because the Welsh booed our anthem, I think 900 years of oppression or perceived opression may be slightly understandable. Do the welsh boo others, doubt it. Do England cricket and rugby fans boo others? Not that I know of.

What do you honestly think is the typical view of European fans of the following:-

Scottish fans - possibly drink more than most but a friendly lot in the main, very passionate, very loud, leave too many empties around?

Irish - as above, but clean up the empties.

Wales - not as big in numbers, harder to gauge.

England - *****              left empty                                                                                 *****************

go on fill this one in, without using the phrase "The English disease"


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 9, 2021)

Mudball said:



			What kind of nation have we suddenly turned into.. where is this tribalism being unleashed from. In some ways you wish we never reached this stage …

I know everyone is going to say .. this does not represent the majority
https://apple.news/A4vS1r8K0T569UEOYKB7oag

.. and it is not just to the Danes, we have turned on our own (who don’t look like us).. from Twitter yesterday. As I understand, the FA has reached out to support
View attachment 37486


… and still we have a section of forumites who can’t understand why our players take the knee..
		
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The sort of England that had my English Mrs sad that she could not take as much pride from England’s win as she would have done just a few short years ago.  That’s just how she felt and it is indeed very sad.


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## bluewolf (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Does it matter if its 51% vs 49% for it to fit nicely with you?

If 10% is 9'000 people on Sunday fighting, booing national anthems, shining lasers, laughing at young children in arms, picking on Asians wearing England tops. If every town and city centre sees Italian cars damaged, restaurants bricked, fighting with the local police and each other but its only done by 12.658254455 % then okay?

Its like the you can't say Salah is a diver because your own club has one argument - yes you bloody well can. Just because the Welsh booed our anthem, I think 900 years of oppression or perceived opression may be slightly understandable. Do the welsh boo others, doubt it. Do England cricket and rugby fans boo others? Not that I know of.

What do you honestly think is the typical view of European fans of the following:-

Scottish fans - possibly drink more than most but a friendly lot in the main, very passionate, very loud, leave too many empties around?

Irish - as above, but clean up the empties.

Wales - not as big in numbers, harder to gauge.

England - *****              left empty                                                                                 *****************

go on fill this one in, without using the phrase "The English disease"
		
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Temporary self-ban lifted for the next few days only (I think ;-) )

Pretty much agree with everything you've posted Ped. At the start of this tournament I was pretty disinterested TBF. Then I noticed how much my kids were invested in it. I briefly considered taking them to the Pub to watch the games, thinking back to the atmosphere when watching the '90 SF in the Crawford Arms. Or the '96 SF in The Wheatsheaf. How much passion and enthusiasm I had for the game. Then I remembered all the aggro from later tournaments. The glasses smashing, the chairs being thrown. Windows being put through. The vile language and abuse.

Why would I subject my kids to that? Why would I remove that optimism and enthusiasm they currently have for the England Team by subjecting them to the relatively small but vocal and obnoxious minority of "England fans". 

So, we watched the games at home, with snacks and drinks. We celebrated with neighbours. We ignored the Police sirens as they blazed past after 10pm. And in all honesty, I've loved it again. It feels great to be able to support a team of players that in the main seem decent. A manager that clearly thinks before opening his mouth. 

I still have to explain why "England fans" boo the opposition National Anthem, or when the players take the knee (full support in my house). But life feels better without subjecting ourselves to that minority of people.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 9, 2021)

bluewolf said:



*Temporary self-ban lifted for the next few days only *(I think ;-) )

Pretty much agree with everything you've posted Ped. At the start of this tournament I was pretty disinterested TBF. Then I noticed how much my kids were invested in it. I briefly considered taking them to the Pub to watch the games, thinking back to the atmosphere when watching the '90 SF in the Crawford Arms. Or the '96 SF in The Wheatsheaf. How much passion and enthusiasm I had for the game. Then I remembered all the aggro from later tournaments. The glasses smashing, the chairs being thrown. Windows being put through. The vile language and abuse.

Why would I subject my kids to that? Why would I remove that optimism and enthusiasm they currently have for the England Team by subjecting them to the relatively small but vocal and obnoxious minority of "England fans".

So, we watched the games at home, with snacks and drinks. We celebrated with neighbours. We ignored the Police sirens as they blazed past after 10pm. And in all honesty, I've loved it again. It feels great to be able to support a team of players that in the main seem decent. A manager that clearly thinks before opening his mouth.

I still have to explain why "England fans" boo the opposition National Anthem, or when the players take the knee (full support in my house). But life feels better without subjecting ourselves to that minority of people.
		
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Make it a bit (lot) longer please, this place misses your input.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			Temporary self-ban lifted for the next few days only (I think ;-) )

Pretty much agree with everything you've posted Ped. At the start of this tournament I was pretty disinterested TBF. Then I noticed how much my kids were invested in it. I briefly considered taking them to the Pub to watch the games, thinking back to the atmosphere when watching the '90 SF in the Crawford Arms. Or the '96 SF in The Wheatsheaf. How much passion and enthusiasm I had for the game. Then I remembered all the aggro from later tournaments. The glasses smashing, the chairs being thrown. Windows being put through. The vile language and abuse.

Why would I subject my kids to that? Why would I remove that optimism and enthusiasm they currently have for the England Team by subjecting them to the relatively small but vocal and obnoxious minority of "England fans".

So, we watched the games at home, with snacks and drinks. We celebrated with neighbours. We ignored the Police sirens as they blazed past after 10pm. And in all honesty, I've loved it again. It feels great to be able to support a team of players that in the main seem decent. A manager that clearly thinks before opening his mouth.

I still have to explain why "England fans" boo the opposition National Anthem, or when the players take the knee (full support in my house). But life feels better without subjecting ourselves to that minority of people.
		
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Welcome back 😁

Very much missed 

Hope you’re well and your input is very much needed currently


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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2021)

In fairness I haven't watched a single game in what you'd call a 'pub' - mostly down to Covid regs, and difficulty of securing a table. But I've still watched every game with friends, whether it be at my golf club, at my football club, or one game at a local Indian restaurant/bar that had the game on outside. And it's been brilliant. No trouble from anyone just friends and a few other like-minded people coming together to support the team. And that's the biggest thing I love about the international tournaments - everyone you're watching it with is supporting the same team.


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## bluewolf (Jul 9, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Make it a bit (lot) longer please, this place misses your input. 

Click to expand...

I'll try mate, but having read the Pronouns thread I'm already beginning to wonder how long I'll last!


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## fundy (Jul 9, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			I'll try mate, but having read the Pronouns thread I'm already beginning to wonder how long I'll last!
		
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whatever you do dont read the coronavirus thread! if you do, it was good seeing you again briefly


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Does it matter if its 51% vs 49% for it to fit nicely with you?

If 10% is 9'000 people on Sunday fighting, booing national anthems, shining lasers, laughing at young children in arms, picking on Asians wearing England tops. If every town and city centre sees Italian cars damaged, restaurants bricked, fighting with the local police and each other but its only done by 12.658254455 % then okay?

Its like the you can't say Salah is a diver because your own club has one argument - yes you bloody well can. Just because the Welsh booed our anthem, I think 900 years of oppression or perceived opression may be slightly understandable. Do the welsh boo others, doubt it. Do England cricket and rugby fans boo others? Not that I know of.

What do you honestly think is the typical view of European fans of the following:-

Scottish fans - possibly drink more than most but a friendly lot in the main, very passionate, very loud, leave too many empties around?

Irish - as above, but clean up the empties.

Wales - not as big in numbers, harder to gauge.

England - *****              left empty                                                                                 *****************

go on fill this one in, without using the phrase "The English disease"
		
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It’s boring!! You’re preaching to the converted, but when our own Government won’t condemn fans booing the England players taking the knee, what do you expect.

Do we condemn all Lpool fans for booing God Save The Queen, do we condemn all Lpool fans for the bad behaviour in Madrid or the City coach etc, has that behaviour not soured your opinion of Club Football to level it has at National Level.

Well guess what, England have some scum bag followers who should be locked up for life, but if you think I’m going to moan and whine about a problem that won’t be addressed before sunday you’re very much mistaken.

I’m not going to let some mindless morons takeaway the pride and enjoyment of England reaching a final.

Let there be an investigation, whatever, after Sunday, but right now I’m concentrating on the match.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


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## bluewolf (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Welcome back 😁

Very much missed

Hope you’re well and your input is very much needed currently
		
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Cheers mate. I do miss the place sometimes, but then I go and play golf and the feeling evaporates


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			Cheers mate. I do miss the place sometimes, but then I go and play golf and the feeling evaporates 

Click to expand...

I believe you and Birchy may well have played an Open with some members at my place recently ?


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## BiMGuy (Jul 9, 2021)

If people think England fans are bad. Go to a game in Italy, Turkey, Russia or South America. 

Some England fans boo the opposition national anthem and like to throw plastic chairs at each other. 
But, there are fans in the countries above who are a bit stabby and like to drop mopeds on opposition fans. 

Most major footballing nations have their share of idiots and hooligans. Even some of the minor nations like Scotland do. So, let's not pretend its just the English.


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## bluewolf (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe you and Birchy may well have played an Open with some members at my place recently ?
		
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We did yes. At Ashton Under Lyne. Lovely little gem of a course that was set up very difficult on the day. Your mates struggled a bit, but they let us through quite early. Very nice guys actually..
Funny part is - We were chatting on the 4th tee (a 210yd par 3 that snarled up the early groups) and one of them mentioned being a member at Leighton Buzzard. All I said was that we knew someone who played there and they immediately guessed that it was you . Your fame is spreading mate!

Say hello to them for me will you. They witnessed one of my only decent shots of the day. A lovely flighted 5 iron onto an upturned bowl green from 180 yards. Drained the 20 footer for the birdie as well as they were watching


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			We did yes. At Ashton Under Lyne. Lovely little gem of a course that was set up very difficult on the day. Your mates struggled a bit, but they let us through quite early. Very nice guys actually..
Funny part is - We were chatting on the 4th tee (a 210yd par 3 that snarled up the early groups) and one of them mentioned being a member at Leighton Buzzard. All I said was that we knew someone who played there and they immediately guessed that it was you . Your fame is spreading mate!

Say hello to them for me will you. They witnessed one of my only decent shots of the day. A lovely flighted 5 iron onto an upturned bowl green from 180 yards. Drained the 20 footer for the birdie as well as they were watching 

Click to expand...

😂😂 well I wasn’t sure as they said a tall guy who could hit a lovely ball , I first thought @Captainron but then had to laugh 😂


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 9, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			We did yes. At Ashton Under Lyne. Lovely little gem of a course that was set up very difficult on the day. Your mates struggled a bit, but they let us through quite early. Very nice guys actually..
Funny part is - We were chatting on the 4th tee (a 210yd par 3 that snarled up the early groups) and one of them mentioned being a member at Leighton Buzzard. All I said was that *we knew someone who played there and they immediately guessed that it was you*. Your fame is spreading mate!

Say hello to them for me will you. They witnessed one of my only decent shots of the day. A lovely flighted 5 iron onto an upturned bowl green from 180 yards. Drained the 20 footer for the birdie as well as they were watching 

Click to expand...

You probably said played *slowly* there and that gave it away...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			If people think England fans are bad. Go to a game in Italy, Turkey, Russia or South America.

Some England fans boo the opposition national anthem and like to throw plastic chairs at each other.
But, there are fans in the countries above who are a bit stabby and like to drop mopeds on opposition fans.

Most major footballing nations have their share of idiots and hooligans. Even some of the minor nations like Scotland do. So, let's not pretend its just the English.
		
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Whataboutary at its best

No one has suggested other countries don’t have issues but that doesn’t excuse antics by fans within this country who have embarrassed the country on multiple occasions.


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## bluewolf (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂 well I wasn’t sure as they said a tall guy who could hit a lovely ball , I first thought @Captainron but then had to laugh 😂
		
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I don't recognise that description either 

However, I am having my first half decent season in a while this year. May even get my handicap back to where it should be!


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 9, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			If people think England fans are bad. Go to a game in Italy, Turkey, Russia or South America.

Some England fans boo the opposition national anthem and like to throw plastic chairs at each other.
But, there are fans in the countries above who are a bit stabby and like to drop mopeds on opposition fans.

Most major footballing nations have their share of idiots and hooligans. Even some of the minor nations like Scotland do. So, let's not pretend its just the English.
		
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I don't care what other fans do to their reputation; I am bothered about what the English fans do to ours because as a match going fan I'm tarred with the same brush.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whataboutary at its best

No one has suggested other countries don’t have issues but that doesn’t excuse antics by fans within this country who have embarrassed the country on multiple occasions.
		
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NOBODY IS EXCUSING THEM!!


ARE YOU STILL NO LONGER SUPPORTING ENGLAND TAKING A KNEE?

Hypocrisy at its finest!


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## BiMGuy (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whataboutary at its best

No one has suggested other countries don’t have issues but that doesn’t excuse antics by fans within this country who have embarrassed the country on multiple occasions.
		
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No whataboutery at all. But the way some people are going on about the behaviour of a tiny minority of people is verging on the hysterical. 

It's like they can't now complain about England losing, and they can't be positive about us winning. So, they need to find something else to project their negativity onto.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			No whataboutery at all. But the way some people are going on about the behaviour of a tiny minority of people is verging on the hysterical.

It's like they can't now complain about England losing, and they can't be positive about us winning. So, they need to find something else to project their negativity onto.
		
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Of course it’s whataboutary- pointing fingers at others is nothing but whataboutary 

This is about England fans and their behaviour both in the stadiums , outside stadiums and on social media 

It certainly wasn’t a “tiny minority” booing the national anthem ? 

There seems to at times a lack of accountability and people ignoring a problem because the team are winning , 

It just looks like looking for excuses and reasons to ignore what’s going on with “tiny minority” - or “ well it’s not me so I’m not bothered”

Right now the football world look at England fans with disdain because of the way they act both in losing and winning - it’s been a stain on the country and indeed clubs for a long time now and things don’t change.


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## yandabrown (Jul 9, 2021)




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## IanM (Jul 9, 2021)

I guess if you support a team based on what they've won, and not based on where you or your family are from.... wanting your own national team to lose isn't so barmy to you.  But to the rest of the planet, it isn't comprehendible at all.  

There are other issues responsible, but we've been asked to not to air them on the forum.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			Temporary self-ban lifted for the next few days only (I think ;-) )

Pretty much agree with everything you've posted Ped. At the start of this tournament I was pretty disinterested TBF. Then I noticed how much my kids were invested in it. I briefly considered taking them to the Pub to watch the games, thinking back to the atmosphere when watching the '90 SF in the Crawford Arms. Or the '96 SF in The Wheatsheaf. How much passion and enthusiasm I had for the game. Then I remembered all the aggro from later tournaments. The glasses smashing, the chairs being thrown. Windows being put through. The vile language and abuse.

Why would I subject my kids to that? Why would I remove that optimism and enthusiasm they currently have for the England Team by subjecting them to the relatively small but vocal and obnoxious minority of "England fans".

So, we watched the games at home, with snacks and drinks. We celebrated with neighbours. We ignored the Police sirens as they blazed past after 10pm. And in all honesty, I've loved it again. It feels great to be able to support a team of players that in the main seem decent. A manager that clearly thinks before opening his mouth.

I still have to explain why "England fans" boo the opposition National Anthem, or when the players take the knee (full support in my house). But life feels better without subjecting ourselves to that minority of people.
		
Click to expand...

Oh God, I've let loose the Kraken, who has it's hand down Pandora's front bottom, to boot.

Forum, I apologise unreservedly.


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## Mudball (Jul 9, 2021)

Prayers for an English supporters:


Our father, who art in Wembley.
Southgate be thy name, the cup will be done,
Kane’s work will be done,
In Wembley as it is at Tottenham,
Take us this day our daily penalty,
And forgive Sterling’s off side trespasses,
As we forgive those who bet against us,
And lead us not into under achievement,
But deliver us the title,
For football is coming home,
The history and the glory,
Forever and ever,
Our-men


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			No whataboutery at all. But the way some people are going on about the behaviour of a tiny minority of people is verging on the hysterical.

It's like they can't now complain about England losing, and they can't be positive about us winning. So, they need to find something else to project their negativity onto.
		
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Tiny minority, yeah right.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 9, 2021)

IanM said:



			I guess if you support a team based on what they've won, and not based on where you or your family are from.... wanting your own national team to lose isn't so barmy to you.  But to the rest of the planet, it isn't comprehendible at all.  

There are other issues responsible, but we've been asked to not to air them on the forum.
		
Click to expand...

Where has anyone said they want the national team to lose?


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## Whereditgo (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Tiny minority, yeah right.
		
Click to expand...

How many millions will watch the game on Sunday and 'support' England? Then compare that with the number who will inevitably, during and afterwards, behave in an antisocial manner - pretty certain it will be a minority


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s boring!! You’re preaching to the converted, but when our own Government won’t condemn fans booing the England players taking the knee, what do you expect.

Do we condemn all Lpool fans for booing God Save The Queen, do we condemn all Lpool fans for the bad behaviour in Madrid or the City coach etc, has that behaviour not soured your opinion of Club Football to level it has at National Level.

Well guess what, England have some scum bag followers who should be locked up for life, but if you think I’m going to moan and whine about a problem that won’t be addressed before sunday you’re very much mistaken.

I’m not going to let some mindless morons takeaway the pride and enjoyment of England reaching a final.

Let there be an investigation, whatever, after Sunday, but right now I’m concentrating on the match.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
		
Click to expand...

As boring as you saying you always support other English teams in Europe, every CL/Europe week, every night of that week........thats boring. maybe get a T shirt with it printed on and in your moniker.

Yes, Liverpool fans have been rightly condemned for certain things as has City, Chelsea, United etc..... on here. When we bricked man city's bus I was one of the first to condemn it, BUT I feel like (just like lots of other club fans) that there are also lots of good things about my own teams support.

England fandom is different, I found most of the "fan culture" abhorrent. You dont, thats fine.

Have you been "proud" of England's support over the last 50 years?


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## bluewolf (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh God, I've let loose the Kraken, who has it's hand down Pandora's front bottom, to boot.

Forum, I apologise unreservedly. 

Click to expand...

Nah mate. I'm a changed man now. In my self-enforced absence from the Forum, I've perfected the art of Zen. I'm now immune from all forms of provocation. I rise above petty squabbles. I inhale negativity and exhale only peace and love to all...






Until I see Birchy's handicap........................


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2021)

Whereditgo said:



			How many millions will watch the game on Sunday and 'support' England? Then compare that with the number who will inevitably, during and afterwards, behave in an antisocial manner - pretty certain it will be a minority 

Click to expand...

It will be a minority, thats obvious, but as I said just because its a minority doesnt mean that its ok. It is also a minority into the thousands or even tens of thousands around the country.


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## bluewolf (Jul 9, 2021)

Whereditgo said:



			How many millions will watch the game on Sunday and 'support' England? Then compare that with the number who will inevitably, during and afterwards, behave in an antisocial manner - pretty certain it will be a minority 

Click to expand...

Will it be a "tiny" minority?

Kum ba yah humble soul


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## AmandaJR (Jul 9, 2021)

I travelled to Germany for Euros 1988. I experienced a lot of terrifying moments where I literally feared for my life - not at the hands of England fans.

Football hooliganism is a cancer and it is horrendous. First time I went to a Premiership Rugby match I was shocked, and not a little scared, to find myself in amongst a mixture of home and away fans. I was shocked again to find how it worked and there was lots of banter - just banter though.

I'm not prepared to keep reading here how horrendous our fans are (the minority - and IT IS THE MINORITY) without some bloody balance about hooliganism that taints the sport throughout the world.

Right - come on England...beat the Italians...win the trophy...oh how very xenophobic of me (with my George Cross flag fluttering in the breeze)!


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## AmandaJR (Jul 9, 2021)

Oh, and whilst I'm in the mood. It's ok for a country to boo our anthem because of history. Really?! Come on - that then justifies our fans booing Germany's anthem for just one. Best not go there if that is acceptable behaviour due to previous misdemeanours by another nation.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 9, 2021)

Ok England fans boo others national anthem,no it’s not great but get over it 🙄


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			As boring as you saying you always support other English teams in Europe, every CL/Europe week, every night of that week........thats boring. maybe get a T shirt with it printed on and in your moniker.

Yes, Liverpool fans have been rightly condemned for certain things as has City, Chelsea, United etc..... on here. When we bricked man city's bus I was one of the first to condemn it, BUT I feel like (just like lots of other club fans) that there are also lots of good things about my own teams support.

England fandom is different, I found most of the "fan culture" abhorrent. You dont, thats fine.

Have you been "proud" of England's support over the last 50 years?
		
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It’s every England match, it’s every Tournament, how sad some people want to see their National Team fail because of the behaviour of a minority, there are lots of good things about England’s support, you just don’t want to see it!

Have I been proud of England’s support over the last 50 years? Yes, absolutely, I have also at times been deeply embarrassed, neither are exclusive!

Also been embarrassed by the behaviour of Everton’s fans at times, but still in all instances the bad behaviour has been at the hands utter scum! A tiny minority.


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## Beezerk (Jul 9, 2021)

Anyone else seem the photos of the Italian fans in Napoli with the banner?
Wow, now that's nasty 😮😂


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## AmandaJR (Jul 9, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Anyone else seem the photos of the Italian fans in Napoli with the banner?
Wow, now that's nasty 😮😂
		
Click to expand...

Nope. Then again I don't spend time trawling the net looking for news items that fit my agenda


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## Beezerk (Jul 9, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Nope. Then again I don't spend time trawling the net looking for news items that fit my agenda 

Click to expand...

Ha ha, a mate sent it me on WhatsApp and it's definitely nsfw.
Couple of Italy fans in front of a building what looks like Napoli, huge banner saying Feck The Queen but not in an Irish accent 🙈


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## Golfmmad (Jul 9, 2021)

First chance I've had to reply to this thread.
After watching a brilliant performance from England on Wednesday evening I was amazed with all the negative comments! It was as if England were beaten 5-0!
I'm sure some on here want England to fail just so they can moan for the next month or so. 
I thought Denmark coach got his tactics completely wrong. He took off the two most dangerous players in the 2nd half leaving his side with virtually no threat.
Gareth Southgate called it just right by taking off Grealish and replace him with Trippier to shore up the defence more. 
The way England managed the game in the last 10minutes was great tactics.
And finally, the penalty. If the Ref and studio ref, Peter Walton, said it was a pen and then VAR agreeing, was good enough for me. Somebody earlier put up a clip that showed quite clearly that Jensen pushed into Sterling causing him to go down. 
I listened to Andros Townshend on Talk Sport this morning who said it was a definite pen. Also saying that a player running at pace only needs a nudge to go over. That's also good enough for me. 
Good luck to the boys on Sunday! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿.


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## hovis (Jul 9, 2021)

🤣


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## Tashyboy (Jul 9, 2021)

I cannot imagine there will be much booing of national anthems on Sunday night. It seems Wembley will be full of wanna be celebs at the expense of real fans. And it’s not the done thing to be seen booing.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Oh, and whilst I'm in the mood. It's ok for a country to boo our anthem because of history. Really?! Come on - that then justifies our fans booing Germany's anthem for just one. Best not go there if that is acceptable behaviour due to previous misdemeanours by another nation.
		
Click to expand...

England boo everyones, a consistent lack of class and sportsmanship, I'll give you that.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s every England match, it’s every Tournament, how sad some people want to see their National Team fail because of the behaviour of a minority, there are lots of good things about England’s support, you just don’t want to see it!

Have I been proud of England’s support over the last 50 years? Yes, absolutely, I have also at times been deeply embarrassed, neither are exclusive!

Also been embarrassed by the behaviour of Everton’s fans at times, but still in all instances the bad behaviour has been at the hands utter scum! A tiny minority.
		
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1. Who has said they want to see them get beat?

2. What are you proud about?

3. Do you think that over the last 50 years, England support has brought more positives rather than negatives by the international community?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			1. Who has said they want to see them get beat?

2. What are you proud about?

3. Do you think that over the last 50 years, England support has brought more positives rather than negatives by the international community?
		
Click to expand...

Final response through courtesy as I’d much rather talk about the team and actual football.

1. A few including yourself telling us how you have no interest and saying how we’ve cheated our way to the final comes across as they’d be content to see us lose the final, imo.

2. I’m proud of the vast majority if fans who have travelled the World behaving impeccably.

3. 50 years!! So back to the early 70’s, so therefore covering the worst of times were England Fans are concerned, 50yrs - More negatives, 40yrs - More negatives 30yrs More negatives, 20yrs - fair split imo, 10yrs - More positives.

Every negative is highlighted, eg. the little German Girl, disgraceful treatment and way more press coverage than the £40K raised for her by genuine fans.

Win or lose on sunday there will be trouble around the Country, fuelled by drink. If you know the answer as to why and how we fix it, I’d love to now, but for now, I hope we win and I’m looking forward to the game.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 9, 2021)

It’s not so much the English fans as the English imo.
Have a look around the country any weekend and there is a minority of bad behaviour.
The main problem is alcohol.
Football just gives them an excuse to congregate.
But we’re not the only ones all country’s have them.


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## Piece (Jul 9, 2021)

In an attempt to balance the books after what I’ve read in the last few pages, I see that Hungary have been sanctioned by UEFA for racist abuse and homophobic banners during their Euro 2020 games.


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## BrianM (Jul 10, 2021)

A bit late to the party, but England deserved to beat Denmark, the Danes had nothing in the tank after an hour, never a penalty for me but England where knocking on the door and I think would of scored regardless.
Italy a class above, but England won’t have a better chance than this, only change I’d make is Sancho in for Saka, just personal opinion!!


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 10, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Final response through courtesy as I’d much rather talk about the team and actual football.

1. A few including yourself telling us how you have no interest and saying how we’ve cheated our way to the final comes across as they’d be content to see us lose the final, imo.

2. I’m proud of the vast majority if fans who have travelled the World behaving impeccably.

3. 50 years!! So back to the early 70’s, so therefore covering the worst of times were England Fans are concerned, 50yrs - More negatives, 40yrs - More negatives 30yrs More negatives, 20yrs - fair split imo, 10yrs - More positives.

Every negative is highlighted, eg. the little German Girl, disgraceful treatment and way more press coverage than the £40K raised for her by genuine fans.

Win or lose on sunday there will be trouble around the Country, fuelled by drink. If you know the answer as to why and how we fix it, I’d love to now, but for now, I hope we win and I’m looking forward to the game.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
		
Click to expand...


"Comes across", well we know how you like to twist and invent things, so you havent proved that some said they want to see us get beat.

The majority I would say, so when you see hundreds fighting aand over many days, not sporadic incidents, well done, you have behaved. Nothing else to be proud about, just that they have travelled the world? No great fan culture like the colour that the brazilians bring, the carnival feel of many of the African nations fans, the good natured spirit of the Irish.....no they have just "travelled" and behaved.

The battle of Marseille (you can use the original, or the latter one, its your choice), the riot in Dublin, Euro 88 was murder every day and every day either side of it, the German world cup and I'm sure that a certain woods in Poland has many stories to tell. Every single tournament, often every 2 years - name me one tournament (outside of Euro 96, which was on home soil), where there hasnt been a massive outbreak of violence?


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 10, 2021)

Piece said:



			In an attempt to balance the books after what I’ve read in the last few pages, I see that Hungary have been sanctioned by UEFA for racist abuse and homophobic banners during their Euro 2020 games.
		
Click to expand...

What book does that balance? No-one is saying that other fans dont do horrible things, just that England fans seem to have the whole gamut of horrible things, rather than just a few and 50 years of doing it, as well.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			What book does that balance? No-one is saying that other fans dont do horrible things, just that England fans seem to have the whole gamut of horrible things, rather than just a few and 50 years of doing it, as well.
		
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Your anti England rants are getting rather boring now.

Every club have idiots that follow them,these idiots also follow the national team.
So guess what?……lots of idiots 🤷‍♂️


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## rudebhoy (Jul 10, 2021)




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## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



View attachment 37507

Click to expand...

They missed the Italy flag for Liverpool 😉


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## harpo_72 (Jul 10, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



View attachment 37507

Click to expand...

That’s okay, hopefully they will all be unhappy on Monday .
Good luck England!!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			"Comes across", well we know how you like to twist and invent things, so you havent proved that some said they want to see us get beat.

The majority I would say, so when you see hundreds fighting aand over many days, not sporadic incidents, well done, you have behaved. Nothing else to be proud about, just that they have travelled the world? No great fan culture like the colour that the brazilians bring, the carnival feel of many of the African nations fans, the good natured spirit of the Irish.....no they have just "travelled" and behaved.

The battle of Marseille (you can use the original, or the latter one, its your choice), the riot in Dublin, Euro 88 was murder every day and every day either side of it, the German world cup and I'm sure that a certain woods in Poland has many stories to tell. Every single tournament, often every 2 years - name me one tournament (outside of Euro 96, which was on home soil), where there hasnt been a massive outbreak of violence?
		
Click to expand...

Have you ever thought about discussing the actual games on this thread?

Breaking News: England have a minority of scum fans that travel the world causing chaos:

In Other News: The good behaviour of the majority is ignored.

Tell us Pete, as you’re not actually bothered about the game. Do you want England to win or are you still “torn” ?


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 10, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Have you ever thought about discussing the actual games on this thread?

Breaking News: England have a minority of scum fans that travel the world causing chaos:

In Other News: The good behaviour of the majority is ignored.

Tell us Pete, as you’re not actually bothered about the game. Do you want England to win or are you still “torn” ?
		
Click to expand...

This will be my last (or 2nd to last post) on this subject for now.

Generally, why dont you try answering the questions asked rather than moving the goalposts all the time, is it due to a paucity of argument, perhaps? I havent watched every minute of England games, partially playing Freecell on the lap-top at the same time, except for the last 30 minutes of the Denmark game, and the same for most of the tournament, so havent wished to converse on a lot of the footy side, as havent watched it "intently".

I was torn, as wanted Scotland and England to get through, as a very likable bunch are our Scottish cousins, in the main.

I do want England to win for the many fans who are decent, and am part English/majority Scouse, although the triumphalism will be a tad annoying, I'm sure, but it'll pass over the decades, I'm sure.

If Pickford / Walker / Stones / Henderson / Kane make a mistake and it costs them, that player will automatically have my sympathy, I fear not from everyone, though.


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## Piece (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			What book does that balance? No-one is saying that other fans dont do horrible things, just that England fans seem to have the whole gamut of horrible things, rather than just a few and 50 years of doing it, as well.
		
Click to expand...

I was just giving some attention to the misdemeanours of other countries amidst this current wave of England criticism. Nothing more, nothing less.

And for the record, I agree with what you say about England fans over the course of history.


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## hairball_89 (Jul 10, 2021)

Piece said:



			In an attempt to balance the books after what I’ve read in the last few pages, I see that Hungary have been sanctioned by UEFA for racist abuse and homophobic banners during their Euro 2020 games.
		
Click to expand...

The interesting part about this is the statement from uefa saying Hungary will have to display a banner, the content of which is against the law in Hungary. How's that gonna work?!


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## Piece (Jul 10, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			The interesting part about this is the statement from uefa saying Hungary will have to display a banner, the content of which is against the law in Hungary. How's that gonna work?!
		
Click to expand...

Hungary to fine UEFA?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 10, 2021)

The FA have been punished:

“A statement from UEFA read: "The CEDB has decided to fine the English Football Association €30,000 for the use of laser pointer, disturbances during the national anthems and setting of fireworks."

Pathetic and now it’s down to our FA to take action if they are bothered.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 10, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The FA have been punished:

“A statement from UEFA read: "The CEDB has decided to fine the English Football Association €30,000 for the use of laser pointer, disturbances during the national anthems and setting of fireworks."

Pathetic and now it’s down to our FA to take action if they are bothered.
		
Click to expand...

Pathetic that they have been fined, or pathetic behaviour from the fans?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Pathetic that they have been fined, or pathetic behaviour from the fans?
		
Click to expand...

Getting a bit obsessive now Pete.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 10, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Getting a bit obsessive now Pete.

Click to expand...

Ha, ha, oh the irony.

I genuinely couldn't tell what you see what is pathetic.

1. Uefa's fines at all, not being big enough, or pathetic for fining the FA?

2. Pathetic behaviour from the fans.

I'm not sure if you have your "readers" on, or your English rose coloured glasses on.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Pathetic that they have been fined, or pathetic behaviour from the fans?
		
Click to expand...

Oh come on now. It is clear he is referring to the level of the fine being pathetic.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ha, ha, oh the irony.

I genuinely couldn't tell what you see what is pathetic.

1. Uefa's fines at all, not being big enough, or pathetic for fining the FA?

2. Pathetic behaviour from the fans.

I'm not sure if you have your "readers" on, or your English rose coloured glasses on.
		
Click to expand...

All of it, the behaviour of the minority of the fans, the pathetic fine, the fact our pathetic FA will do nothing.

Unless you start taking points off teams or threatening bans, nothing will change, exactly the same as our PL.

But you have all the questions and comments, what’s your solution?


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 10, 2021)

Come now boys, let’s play nice

We don’t want Fragger on the Forum VAR now do we 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 10, 2021)

'mon the ANTS. 
Flying ants could swarm Euro 2020 final at Wembley (msn.com)


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## fundy (Jul 10, 2021)

not many straws left for the Scots to clutch at lol


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## Imurg (Jul 10, 2021)




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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 10, 2021)

Soooooooooooooo if Scotland are soooooooooooooo rubbish.
How come England could not beat them.

Asking for a friend.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Soooooooooooooo if Scotland are soooooooooooooo rubbish.
How come England could not beat them.

Asking for a friend.

Click to expand...

🤦‍♂️

Well done on winning 0-0 and getting a grand total of 1 point .


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## Slime (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I do want England to win for the many fans who are decent,* and am part English/majority Scouse,* although the triumphalism will be a tad annoying, I'm sure, but it'll pass over the decades, I'm sure.

If Pickford / Walker / Stones / Henderson / Kane make a mistake and it costs them, that player will automatically have my sympathy, I fear not from everyone, though.
		
Click to expand...

Oh.
So you're nationality is English, is that what you're saying?


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## fundy (Jul 10, 2021)

sounds like Fodens picked up an injury and may not be considered tomorrow


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2021)

Slime said:



			Oh.
So you're nationality is English, is that what you're saying?
		
Click to expand...

Just leave him whilst he’s quiet 😬😂


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2021)

fundy said:



			sounds like Fodens picked up an injury and may not be considered tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

Thought we would have seen more of Foden this tournament.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 10, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Thought we would have seen more of Foden this tournament.
		
Click to expand...

He is nursing a foot injury
Possible doubt for the final


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## arnieboy (Jul 10, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Soooooooooooooo if Scotland are soooooooooooooo rubbish.
How come England could not beat them.

Asking for a friend.

Click to expand...

Because we didn't have to.....


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## GB72 (Jul 10, 2021)

Is there no third/fourth playoff in the euros.


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## fundy (Jul 10, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Is there no third/fourth playoff in the euros.
		
Click to expand...


in a word, no


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## Dando (Jul 10, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Soooooooooooooo if Scotland are soooooooooooooo rubbish.
How come England could not beat them.

Asking for a friend.

Click to expand...

We felt sorry for you


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## Dando (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️

Well done on winning 0-0 and getting a grand total of 1 point .
		
Click to expand...

I got 1 point on the front 9 at sunningdale new so does that mean I won?


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## IainP (Jul 10, 2021)

Nice little warm up in the early hours tomorrow
   -  Brazil v Argentina  in the Copa
⚽️
Could be an Americas v Europe dive off 🤣😂


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 10, 2021)

Slime said:



			Oh.
So you're nationality is English, is that what you're saying?
		
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Borders dont define us in the republic of Liverpool.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 10, 2021)

When will people learn?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-57790171


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			He is nursing a foot injury
Possible doubt for the final
		
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Yeah,I meant I expected him to to be one of the stars of the tournament.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Borders dont define us in the republic of Liverpool.

Click to expand...

If only 😂


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## Slime (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Borders dont define us in the republic of Liverpool.

Click to expand...

I was merely asking your nationality, that's all.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 10, 2021)

Slime said:



			I was merely asking your nationality, that's all.
		
Click to expand...

Scouse not English, or should I be defined by what you say I am?

Tick, tock, tick,tock......


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Scouse not English, or should I be defined by what you say I am?
		
Click to expand...

Chill out Karen 😬😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah,I meant I expected him to to be one of the stars of the tournament.
		
Click to expand...

I thought the same. Looking back though in the group games he was stuck out on the wing and quite isolated. There were some nice moments but no more than that.

In the Denmark game he was more central, seemed to have a bit of licence to roam. He was able to slide balls through better, have more influence, pop balls around opponents. That was the Foden I was hoping to see.

Without sitting through those group games again, why would anyone do that unless you were a coach doing analysis, then I'd say he was misused in those early games and he wasn't able to show what he can do. Hopefully he will be fit tonight and start ahead of Mount. He is the player to slide balls through and around the two italian cb. IMO of course 😄


----------



## BiMGuy (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Borders dont define us in the republic of Liverpool.

Click to expand...

Shame. The rest of the country would prefer it if they did!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You stay classy now
		
Click to expand...

You seriously having a pop at him about staying classy?😬🤦‍♂️


----------



## Dando (Jul 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			When will people learn?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-57790171

Click to expand...

It’s ok, as he’s getting his Nigerian lottery winnings soon


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jul 11, 2021)




----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 11, 2021)

Dando said:



			It’s ok, as he’s getting his Nigerian lottery winnings soon
		
Click to expand...

I certainly wouldn’t be smiling on the photos.


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Scouse not English, or should I be defined by what you say I am?

Tick, tock, tick,tock......
		
Click to expand...

Far be it for me to define anyone other than myself, I'll let others play that game.
It wouldn't be right for me to say what I think you are.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57779541.amp

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...re-danes-tell-of-being-abused-by-england-fans

I fear for what is going to happen in London tonight- a good number will be on the beer all day long , Italians have their own core issues - could turn very nasty tonight


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57779541.amp

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...re-danes-tell-of-being-abused-by-england-fans

I fear for what is going to happen in London tonight- a good number will be on the beer all day long , Italians have their own core issues - could turn very nasty tonight
		
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity Phil,did you search for that article?
Either way I bet you couldn’t wait to post it on here 🙄


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## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

Argentina end their own "28 years of hurt"..
.. a straw?  You bet, I'm clutching at it as a sign  😉😁🙂


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

rumours/leaks are starting, Trippier to come into a back 3


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just out of curiosity Phil,did you search for that article?
Either way I bet you couldn’t wait to post it on here 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Ah maybe the English fans don’t complain to the media as much .. as stated every nation has a faction of utter twits . Maybe we are so used to ours we take it as par for the course and don’t complain and suffer in silence.
I have noticed on my travels the English do suffer in silence but even the Northern Europeans will openly object if they are not happy.. so lesson is complain go to the media if need be


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			rumours/leaks are starting, Trippier to come into a back 3
		
Click to expand...

Yes please.

------------------pickford 

------walker ---maguire--- stones 

Tripper ----rice ---phillips ---shaw 

----------saka----kane----sterling


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Far play to the ITV scheduler, putting on the Italian Job (1969 vintage) before the final


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just out of curiosity Phil,did you search for that article?
Either way I bet you couldn’t wait to post it on here 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, who would need to post it before you decried the behaviour rather than the poster?


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## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57779541.amp

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...re-danes-tell-of-being-abused-by-england-fans

I fear for what is going to happen in London tonight- a good number will be on the beer all day long , Italians have their own core issues - could turn very nasty tonight
		
Click to expand...

I still vividly recall working on the evening of the England v Germany semi final of Euro ‘96 - I had spent the entire tournament abstracted from my core role and was working on a PSU serial. That’s a riot van for those who are curious.

The whole tournament was good natured until that evening. The final whistle that night was the trigger for absolute mayhem.

I’m afraid there will be bother in some parts tonight, win or lose.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I still vividly recall working on the evening of the England v Germany semi final of Euro ‘96 - I had spent the entire tournament abstracted from my core role and was working on a PSU serial. That’s a riot van for those who are curious.

The whole tournament was good natured until that evening. The final whistle that night was the trigger for absolute mayhem.

I’m afraid there will be bother in some parts tonight, win or lose.
		
Click to expand...

I did some stewarding at Wemberlee during 96 and it was really good , as you say good natured , others did the semi final and it was the only time they could remember the police arresting people and dragging them into vans etc


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Yes please.

------------------pickford

------walker ---maguire--- stones

Tripper ----rice ---phillips ---shaw

----------saka----kane----sterling
		
Click to expand...

Looks like I was 1 out . Mount for saka


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Just out of curiosity, who would need to post it before you decried the behaviour rather than the poster?
		
Click to expand...

I just think it would be nice if people were able to enjoy today rather than look for negative things to post.
Just my opinion tho buddy 👍🏻


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## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Looks like I was 1 out . Mount for saka
		
Click to expand...

I'd have preferred Sancho or Grealish for Saka.
I think pace will be our best weapon against an aged defence.
They are hugely experienced and I can't see us out witting them.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'd have preferred Sancho or Grealish for Saka.
I think pace will be our best weapon against an aged defence.
They are hugely experienced and I can't see us out witting them.
		
Click to expand...

I think grealish will get his token 20 mins at the end to have his impact which could be vital


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I still vividly recall working on the evening of the England v Germany semi final of Euro ‘96 - I had spent the entire tournament abstracted from my core role and was working on a PSU serial. That’s a riot van for those who are curious.

The whole tournament was good natured until that evening. The final whistle that night was the trigger for absolute mayhem.

I’m afraid there will be bother in some parts tonight, win or lose.
		
Click to expand...

The Swindon police played a blinder that night in '96.
I think it was the first tournament that England could play in after their ban from International football.
The police were very short staffed and expected serious trouble
They got every spare car or van they could find on the road, single driver, and continually kept running around the town.
All the yobbos thought there was a very high police presence and that all the vans were loaded with a dozen bobbys inside.

Stay safe if things go pear shaped tonight.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The Swindon police played a blinder that night in '96.
I think it was the first tournament that *England could play in after their ban from International football.*
The police were very short staffed and expected serious trouble
They got every spare car or van they could find on the road, single driver, and continually kept running around the town.
All the yobbos thought there was a very high police presence and that all the vans were loaded with a dozen bobbys inside.

Stay safe if things go pear shaped tonight.
		
Click to expand...

When were England banned from playing International football 🤷‍♂️


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## Beezerk (Jul 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Just out of curiosity, who would need to post it before you decried the behaviour rather than the poster?
		
Click to expand...

It was posted by someone else the other day, I'm struggling to grasp that Phil didn't see it at the time given how much time he spends in this thread


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Stay safe if things go pear shaped tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I’m retired now so will be well out of harms way!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When were England banned from playing International football 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Sorry forgot it was just the clubs that were banned.


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



when were england banned from playing international football - Bing 
One click away.

Click to expand...


Apart from that doesnt say anything about England being banned from international football


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 11, 2021)




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## 4LEX (Jul 11, 2021)

Feeling anxious, excited and a bit emotional about tonight! All those painful defeats in 96, 98, 2002, 2004, 2006 and 2018. Plus the crap inbetween. Tonight could bury the pain or be the most painful game of all. Bit that's why we love football. 

I'm still not buying into the Southgate hype just yet but he has learnt from his mistakes. This side is much better with Saka/Sancho than Foden slowing the play down. You can't have a side with Grealish, Foden and Mount as it becomes too sideways and predictable. The best thing has been Saka causing trouble on the right and freeing up opace for Sterling to cause havoc on the left cutting in. No surprise Kane has fired up when we play an attacking game.

I really think we'll win tonight but if we don't, we're going to be the best side in the world over the next 2-6 years. We'll win the World Cup and the next Euros. But please let's get it done tonight and let's not play for pens for being too scared of going for it!


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## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

#ENG XI: Pickford, Shaw, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Trippier, Rice, Phillips, Mount, Kane, Sterling

Cautious start I suppose.
Subs will be needed!


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

IainP said:



			#ENG XI: Pickford, Shaw, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Trippier, Rice, Phillips, Mount, Kane, Sterling

Cautious start I suppose.
Subs will be needed!
		
Click to expand...

Saw a hour or so ago (seems early?!) But solid defensive line up

Could be a cagey affair 

Cheeky 2-1 with Kane to score the winner


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## 4LEX (Jul 11, 2021)

If that is the side it's way too cautious against a tired and fading Italy. Pace out wide and Mount in the space between Jorginho and the slow centre backs.


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## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Saw a hour or so ago (seems early?!) But solid defensive line up

Could be a cagey affair 

Cheeky 2-1 with Kane to score the winner
		
Click to expand...

Normal time?
Think extra time is highly likely


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## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			If that is the side it's way too cautious against a tired and fading Italy. Pace out wide and Mount in the space between Jorginho and the slow centre backs.
		
Click to expand...

It's no real surprise though. GS will no doubt be thinking don't lose it in the first half and add pace later.
Until it doesn't work, I'm with him 😉😉😁


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## BiMGuy (Jul 11, 2021)

I like it. Italy will have to work very hard to break that that team down. 

If England can keep the ball and Italy play their normal game, Italy will run out of gas in the first half. 

Then unleash the impact subs. Job jobbed, and home in time for tea and medals.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Far be it for me to define anyone other than myself, I'll let others play that game.
It wouldn't be right for me to say what I think you are.
		
Click to expand...

It hasnt stopped you before, now has it?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

If England really want to host the World Cup in 2030 then their fans today have really screwed that - seems a few times trying to storm the stadium and they have trashed the town 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ The videos all over social media aren’t great scenes


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If England really want to host the World Cup in 2030 then their fans today have really screwed that - seems a few times trying to storm the stadium and they have trashed the town 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ The videos all over social media aren’t great scenes
		
Click to expand...

still 2 hours to kick off  

kind of amazing that theyve been able to storm into the stadium, do have to wonder what they were expecting tho


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## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If England really want to host the World Cup in 2030 then their fans today have really screwed that - seems a few times trying to storm the stadium and they have trashed the town 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ The videos all over social media aren’t great scenes
		
Click to expand...

Whilst their actions are appalling. 

Our fans have always had these incidents and we still got 96 and these finals. 

Plus, they let Russia and Dubai hist world cups and their stances on many human rights issues are much worse than today's events.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 11, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst their actions are appalling.

Our fans have always had these incidents and we still got 96 and these finals.

Plus, they let Russia and Dubai hist world cups and *their stances on many human rights issues are much worse than today's events.*

Click to expand...

I'm sure those countries have ways of easing the organiser's concerns, if indeed the organisers were concerned about that aspect (and I agree that they should be).


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

What goes through your head to think you know what, Ill dig up a tree in Leicester Square and then start throwing it about?????


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst their actions are appalling.

Our fans have always had these incidents and we still got 96 and these finals.

Plus, they let Russia and Dubai hist world cups and their stances on many human rights issues are much worse than today's events.
		
Click to expand...


I suspect FIFA didn’t give two thoughts about human rights issues - ignoring it because they prob believe it has nothing to do with the sport ( wrongly of course )

England are currently trying to get UEFA body to back their bid - today is the final of their biggest international comp and the scenes aren’t great and there are still a number of hours to go


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			What goes through your head to think you know what, Ill dig up a tree in Leicester Square and then start throwing it about?????
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's stupid actions like this that make it harder for many to really get into to "England footy", and who can blame them.


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## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			It hasnt stopped you before, now has it?
		
Click to expand...

Hasn't it?
Please, remind me.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Hasn't it?
Please, remind me.
		
Click to expand...

Not today, sick of arguing with people.

For the decent England fans, I hope they win.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If England really want to host the World Cup in 2030 then *OURfans* today have really screwed that - seems a few times trying to storm the stadium and they have trashed the town 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ The videos all over social media aren’t great scenes
		
Click to expand...


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## nickjdavis (Jul 11, 2021)

Personally I cannot see anything but an Italy win tonight. They will play a high tempo game, push on to our back line harass and harry, not giving us the freedom to maintain possession in our own half and prevent us playing out from the back. Our back lines will be disconnected from the forwards, we will bypass midfield in an attempt to get the ball forward with hopeful punts, time and time again play will break down as Chiellini marshals his defence like a Roman Centurion....the Italian defensive "know-how" totally stumping our youthful midfield and isolated strikeforce.

Eventually frustration will overcome us, we will lose a man to a red card (probably Rice) for reckless challenges made in desperation to get the ball off the Italians as we chase the game after going a goal down late in the first half. The Italians will shut up shop and use their mastery of the "dark arts" to see out the game comfortably.

We go home and cry into our Best Bitter for another 18 months until once more hopes are raised with the Qatar World Cup (which we haven't a hope in hell of winning due to the heat).












I desperately hope the above is utter tosh but its my way of mentally preparing myself for disappointment.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			What goes through your head to think you know what, Ill dig up a tree in Leicester Square and then start throwing it about?????
		
Click to expand...

Probably more related to what’s gone down their throat or up their nose than what goes through their head; if it did cross their mind it wouldn’t be a long journey.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 11, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Personally I cannot see anything but an Italy win tonight. They will play a high tempo game, push on to our back line harass and harry, not giving us the freedom to maintain possession in our own half and prevent us playing out from the back. Our back lines will be disconnected from the forwards, we will bypass midfield in an attempt to get the ball forward with hopeful punts, time and time again play will break down as Chiellini marshals his defence like a Roman Centurion....the Italian defensive "know-how" totally stumping our youthful midfield and isolated strikeforce.

Eventually frustration will overcome us, we will lose a man to a red card (probably Rice) for reckless challenges made in desperation to get the ball off the Italians as we chase the game after going a goal down late in the first half. The Italians will shut up shop and use their mastery of the "dark arts" to see out the game comfortably.

We go home and cry into our Best Bitter for another 18 months until once more hopes are raised with the Qatar World Cup (which we haven't a hope in hell of winning due to the heat).












I desperately hope the above is utter tosh but its my way of mentally preparing myself for disappointment.
		
Click to expand...

Well that’s that then. Think I’ll give it a miss. 😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			What goes through your head to think you know what, Ill dig up a tree in Leicester Square and then start throwing it about?????
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414271082002067464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414271920887959556


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## AmandaJR (Jul 11, 2021)

Please Phil can you just stop - start another thread about how horrendous England fans are and let the decent England fans on here enjoy the moment and the thread.

Please...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Please Phil can you just stop - start another thread about how horrendous England fans are and let the decent England fans on here enjoy the moment and the thread.

Please...
		
Click to expand...

It’s a thread about football - the posts are about football fans and how they are embarrassing the country right now.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 11, 2021)

Ahh sod it then - ignore it is.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Please Phil can you just stop - start another thread about how horrendous England fans are and let the decent England fans on here enjoy the moment and the thread.

Please...
		
Click to expand...

This^^^^^
Yes the “fans” causing the trouble are knobs,we know that,we get it 👍🏻👍🏻

Just have a day off fgs 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Hobbit (Jul 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Please Phil can you just stop - start another thread about how horrendous England fans are and let the decent England fans on here enjoy the moment and the thread.

Please...
		
Click to expand...

Well said Amanda. Today of all days, let’s celebrate England getting to the final and, hopefully a win.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			This^^^^^
Yes the “fans” causing the trouble are knobs,we know that,we get it 👍🏻👍🏻

Just have a day off fgs 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Not a bloody chance - talk about a dog with a bone. Trawl the net to find everything you can and post here with utter glee. I've had enough.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a thread about football - the posts are about football fans and how they are embarrassing the country right now.
		
Click to expand...

Must you always focus on the negative?…..your a strange sort of fella if you would rather scour social media for that than enjoy the momentous occasion tonight is.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Not a bloody chance - talk about a dog with a bone. Trawl the net to find everything you can and post here with utter glee. I've had enough.
		
Click to expand...

The mans obsessed 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Not a bloody chance - talk about a dog with a bone. Trawl the net to find everything you can and post here with utter glee. I've had enough.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t need to trawl the net when it’s all over social media including main stream news and multiple sports presenters , multiple high level sports Journalists and also other football players 

Here are the ticket less fans getting into the stadium 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414274893978472449


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t need to trawl the net when it’s all over social media including main stream news and multiple sports presenters , multiple high level sports Journalists and also other football players

Here are the ticket less fans getting into the stadium


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414274893978472449

Click to expand...

Like you say Phil it’s all over social media,we can see it without you posting it 👍🏻


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			We go home and cry into our Best Bitter for another 18 months until once more hopes are raised with the Qatar World Cup (*which we haven't a hope in hell of winning due to the heat*).
		
Click to expand...

Mid to high 20s, they should be able to cope with that ................................. hopefully.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t need to trawl the net when it’s all over social media including main stream news and multiple sports presenters , multiple high level sports Journalists and also other football players 

Here are the ticket less fans getting into the stadium 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414274893978472449

Click to expand...

It’s your motive though Phil, you are not trying to bring the news of the world to the thread you are just trying to pish on our parade.


----------



## Golfmmad (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t need to trawl the net when it’s all over social media including main stream news and multiple sports presenters , multiple high level sports Journalists and also other football players 

Here are the ticket less fans getting into the stadium 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414274893978472449

Click to expand...

How many formers have to tell you, we don't want to read it, or look at it right now.
Just go away and let us enjoy the occasion!


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## Golfmmad (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t read it then 👍
		
Click to expand...

I did not! And certainly not the twaddle that you post.


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 11, 2021)

LP you posted many times in the past that you have no interest in the England national team, why the interest in the few idiots that cause havoc and not the many thousands that act responsibly.


----------



## Hobbit (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t need to trawl the net when it’s all over social media including main stream news and multiple sports presenters , multiple high level sports Journalists and also other football players

Here are the ticket less fans getting into the stadium


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414274893978472449

Click to expand...

Phil, you moaned about losing good forumites because of posting styles. You’ve got a number of established members saying don’t post up the fan rubbish, not today of all days. and what do you do? You continue to post it up. Maybe have a read of your own moans about losing people, and think…


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## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

BBC or ITV?
ITV have billions of adverts, but they also have Roy Keane and Ian Wright.
BBC have absolutely no adverts, but they do have Shearer and Lineker.

I think I'm going ITV, but will probably flip flop quite a bit!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			BBC or ITV?
ITV have billions of adverts, but they also have Roy Keane and Ian Wright.
BBC have absolutely no adverts, but they do have Shearer and Lineker.

I think I'm going ITV, but will probably flip flop quite a bit!
		
Click to expand...

Bbc by a mile 

ITV has mataface who is awful and shouldn't be allowed to speak.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 11, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Personally I cannot see anything but an Italy win tonight. They will play a high tempo game, push on to our back line harass and harry, not giving us the freedom to maintain possession in our own half and prevent us playing out from the back. Our back lines will be disconnected from the forwards, we will bypass midfield in an attempt to get the ball forward with hopeful punts, time and time again play will break down as Chiellini marshals his defence like a Roman Centurion....the Italian defensive "know-how" totally stumping our youthful midfield and isolated strikeforce.

Eventually frustration will overcome us, we will lose a man to a red card (probably Rice) for reckless challenges made in desperation to get the ball off the Italians as we chase the game after going a goal down late in the first half. The Italians will shut up shop and use their mastery of the "dark arts" to see out the game comfortably.

We go home and cry into our Best Bitter for another 18 months until once more hopes are raised with the Qatar World Cup (which we haven't a hope in hell of winning due to the heat).












I desperately hope the above is utter tosh but its my way of mentally preparing myself for disappointment.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t worry it is


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Bbc by a mile

ITV has mataface who is awful and shouldn't be allowed to speak.
		
Click to expand...

Good point. 

BBC during the game, ITV for the punditry.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 11, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Phil, you moaned about losing good forumites because of posting styles. You’ve got a number of established members saying don’t post up the fan rubbish, not today of all days. and what do you do? You continue to post it up. Maybe have a read of your own moans about losing people, and think…
		
Click to expand...

There's the irony. Posting about the stalwarts leaving and probably your biggest culprit right there. Couldn't make it up.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 11, 2021)

Can't decide what side to watch. Will start with BBC and if it goes pear-shaped I'll turn over.

I'm nervous...actually feel a wee bit sick!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Good point. 

BBC during the game, ITV for the punditry.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds the perfect compromise

Altho personally I do like linkear but each to their own


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a thread about football - the posts are about football fans and how they are embarrassing the country right now.
		
Click to expand...

Your embarrassing 
Your not an England supporter 
Always looking for the bad,just a sad individual


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Bbc by a mile 

ITV has mataface who is awful and shouldn't be allowed to speak.
		
Click to expand...


Yep gotta be BBC. Can’t turn it on yet though, I find it too exhausting!…Think I’ll turn it on about 7.55, Loudly boo the Italian national anthem, then the players taking a knee then throw myself into it.😆







(Joke obviously I like the Italian national anthem😜)


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Yep gotta be BBC. Can’t turn it on yet though, I find it too exhausting!…Think I’ll turn it on about 7.55, Loudly boo the Italian national anthem, then the players taking a knee then throw myself into it.😆







(Joke obviously I like the Italian national anthem)
		
Click to expand...

Parents arrive 07:50

Kids in bed 

Dinner in belly 

Time for history please?

Got it on already soaking it all up


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2021)

🎼 Sweet Caroline 🎼 oh, oh, oh,🎼🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 11, 2021)

You're all missing out on the treat that is "NOS Studio Europa" out here in the Netherlands. Can't understand a word of it which is still several steps up from ITV and Matterface.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 11, 2021)

My head hurts already...want this way too much.

COME ON ENGLAND!


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			My head hurts already...want this way too much.

COME ON ENGLAND!
		
Click to expand...

Deep breath’s Amanda it’s coming home


----------



## BiMGuy (Jul 11, 2021)

The people causing trouble are


Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a thread about football - the posts are about football fans and how they are embarrassing the country right now.
		
Click to expand...

No they aren't. Drunken idiots are.


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Parents arrive 07:50

Kids in bed

Dinner in belly

Time for history please?

Got it on already soaking it all up
		
Click to expand...

Parents arriving that time in the morning, where they after your breakfast.


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 11, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			The people causing trouble are


No they aren't. Drunken idiots are.
		
Click to expand...

That are no different than drunken idiots all over the world. Anyone that thinks it’s a British problem need to travel more.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 11, 2021)

In the local pub, the place has been bouncing for an hour, what an atmosphere.
Come on England!


----------



## arnieboy (Jul 11, 2021)

Just look at the joy on the faces in the Wembley crowd and imagine all the millions of youngsters around the country full of hope and expectation. Stuff the small minority of yobs, this is for the masses of good people.  Come on England!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Parents arriving that time in the morning, where they after your breakfast.
		
Click to expand...

Aha Got confused that's mum round 07:30 tomorrow to take eldest to school as somebody is trusting me with all the kids now the wife returns to work first time since march 2020 lol 

Need to keep all 3 alive lol


----------



## 3offTheTee (Jul 11, 2021)

Around a week ago a respected member had a bit of a spat on here and apologised. Many people thought well done admired him for apologising to The Forum. Well done Paul.

The general consensus is that it is England’s biggest football night for 55 years’ and the odds are highly in favour of watching the footie. Why oh why can people not accept they are in the minority. We  are not interested in ‘thugs’ storming the stadium nor scrapping in London.

Please please please accept that you are not always correct and let’s concentrate on the football and go with the majority. Thank you


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 11, 2021)

Good luck England play your hearts out try your best and don’t give up!!! 👍👍
Already surpassed past teams 👏👏


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

None of this moody footballer not singing the national anthem..

All singing with pride 

Properly likeable team


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Around a week ago a respected member had a bit of a spat on here and apologised. Many people thought well done admired him for apologising to The Forum. Well done Paul.

The general consensus is that it is England’s biggest football night for 55 years’ and the odds are highly in favour of watching the footie. Why oh why can people not accept they are in the minority. We  are not interested in ‘thugs’ storming the stadium nor scrapping in London.

Please please please accept that you are not always correct and let’s concentrate on the football and go with the majority. Thank you
		
Click to expand...

Last week PJ was basically trolling one person. Repeatedly..  

That's a world away from someone refusing to simply turn a blind eye to the stuff that's occured today. Anyways. 

Let's go for 90 minutes of enjoyment. 

SHAAAAWWWWW!!!!


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

Full back choice instantly vindicated.


----------



## HampshireHog (Jul 11, 2021)

Ha Ha What a start.

Southgate rocking a Petshop Boys look


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)




----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2021)

You dancer! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## Mudball (Jul 11, 2021)

Absolute class from a capacity Wembley crowd to boo the Italian national anthem… bellends everywhere 

The men in white however .. dream start… now to HODL..


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 11, 2021)

Great goal, now in for a dive fest from the Italians as they fall over every time they get touched 🤬


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Italy wide open at the back here and not adjusting


----------



## toyboy54 (Jul 11, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Great goal, now in for a dive fest from the Italians as they fall over every time they get touched 🤬
		
Click to expand...

Agreed about the goal, but why so cynical ??
Only one team in it so far!


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2021)

toyboy54 said:



			Agreed about the goal, but why so cynical ??
Only one team in it so far!
		
Click to expand...

Have you watched them for the last I dunno, Forever....


----------



## Captainron (Jul 11, 2021)

The donkey needs to be there!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Can tell tripper has been playing under simeone .. mastering the dark side of the game


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

massive difference in apparent fitness levels again, several of the Italians look leggy before half time here, just need to keep stretching them


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

This is a really good game , finals normally very cagey but the early go has got Italy going for it but England comfortable at the moment - just got to be careful of Chiesa and Insighe

Good to see the ref trying to let things flow


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

The 1st 15 minutes of the 2nd half are going to be key.


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

I'd love to know what Mourinho thinks of Luke Shaw now.


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Hard to believe the first half was that straightforward, Italy offered very little threat at all, lets hope the 2nd halfs the same!!!!


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			Hard to believe the first half was that straightforward, Italy offered very little threat at all, lets hope the 2nd halfs the same!!!!
		
Click to expand...

I’d like a second goal, though. My nerves won’t stand a second half of us playing largely without the ball like we did the last 20 minutes of the first.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 11, 2021)

toyboy54 said:



			Agreed about the goal, but why so cynical ??
Only one team in it so far!
		
Click to expand...




Papas1982 said:



			Have you watched them for the last I dunno, Forever....
		
Click to expand...

This. 

To be fair, the ref has let so many fouls and dives slide tonight, from both sides. Made it quite an interesting watch because he's not buying it.


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’d like a second goal, though. My nerves won’t stand a second half of us playing largely without the ball like we did the last 20 minutes of the first.
		
Click to expand...


it really is there for the taking, their 2 full backs keep getting caught out of position, and the two centre halves are completely exposed, as you say the sooner it comes the better though! Jorginho looks half fit at best, they really need another body in there


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			Hard to believe the first half was that straightforward, Italy offered very little threat at all, lets hope the 2nd halfs the same!!!!
		
Click to expand...

That’s the most composed England have played all tournament- Italy on the odd occasion showed signs on how dangerous they can be - but so far Pickford hasn’t had to do too much , England I think will need to get another goal though


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'd love to know what Mourinho thinks of Luke Shaw now. 

Click to expand...

Made him what is he , old school management tactic .. clearly worked for Shaw. He won't like it but fantastic results 

Moyes called out Arnie when he first arrived at ours and then suddenly he become our best player that season 

Doesn't work every time tho


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

It’s absolutely there for the taking. Every time we got forward in the first 20 minutes we looked dangerous. But Italy have pushed us deeper and deeper. I’m just starting to feel a tad nervous.


----------



## SaintHacker (Jul 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			It’s absolutely there for the taking. Every time we got forward in the first 20 minutes we looked dangerous. But Italy have pushed us deeper and deeper. I’m just starting to feel a tad nervous.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, half time came at exactly the right time


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 11, 2021)

If we don't get a second goal the last 15 or 20 minutes are going to be very nervy.


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Yep, half time came at exactly the right time
		
Click to expand...


was 4 minutes late for me, could be 10 mins IT at full time at that rate!!!!!


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			If we don't get a second goal the last 15 or 20 minutes are going to be very nervy.
		
Click to expand...

I actually think if we get to the last 20 still 1-0 up then we’ll get a second. Just need to keep a clean sheet a while longer…….


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'd love to know what Mourinho thinks of Luke Shaw now. 

Click to expand...

I suspect he thinks it was his management that brought him to this point 🙄


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

5.6 for me


----------



## toyboy54 (Jul 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			My head hurts already...want this way too much.

COME ON ENGLAND!
		
Click to expand...

Thought it was your nettled backside


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

That was a better penalty shout than the one against Denmark.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

The footage of violence before the game tonight is shocking yet so utterly predictable.


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Good save but someone needs to get hold of Chiesa


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			Good save but someone needs to get hold of Chiesa
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely, on both counts!


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

I'm going to make a cuppa, hold the scoreline!


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm going to make a cuppa, hold the scoreline!
		
Click to expand...


your fault!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm going to make a cuppa, hold the scoreline!
		
Click to expand...

I disappear into the kitchen for two minutes and you let the Italians do that!


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			your fault!!!!!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

I TOLD YOU TO HOLD THE SCORELINE !!!
Your fault.


----------



## Captainron (Jul 11, 2021)

Typical. Overly cautious when in the lead.


----------



## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

Have to give Italy credit for taking the initiative (sadly). Need to change the momentum now.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 11, 2021)

IainP said:



			Have to give Italy credit for taking the initiative (sadly). Need to change the momentum now.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if they took it or if we handed it to them by sitting so deep.


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## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

We have insane pace on the bench, let's use it.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 11, 2021)

We have been playing negative for so long now we just can’t change it!


----------



## Dando (Jul 11, 2021)

Can only see an Italian now


----------



## toyboy54 (Jul 11, 2021)

Oh ya beauty, get in there!!
Momentun seems to have swung--Forza Italia ( strips better than yours )


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			We have insane pace on the bench, let's use it.
		
Click to expand...

Grealish on for mount asap


----------



## Imurg (Jul 11, 2021)

This is there for the taking and it ain't us doing the taking.......


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

England need to find something and quickly , currently seem to have no shape at all and chasing shadows , the movement of Insigne and Cheisa are pulling the back 4 everywhere- Walker is saving them at the moment . Got to find some way to get momentum and reenergise


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			England need to find something and quickly , currently seem to have no shape at all and chasing shadows , the movement of Insigne and Cheisa are pulling the back 4 everywhere- Walker is saving them at the moment . Got to find some way to get momentum and reenergise
		
Click to expand...


Grealish for Mount seems the obvious option to me to give us some control of the ball but unlikely Southgate takes that option


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## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Chiesa off, that's a bonus.


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

wouldnt be a wembley final without one lol


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			wouldnt be a wembley final without one lol
		
Click to expand...

That's alcohol for you.


----------



## Italian outcast (Jul 11, 2021)

England running down the clock


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			That's alcohol for you. 

Click to expand...


id like to state for the record ive had a few beers but remain fully clothed!!!!!!!


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Italian outcast said:



			England running down the clock 

Click to expand...


nice of you to turn up, miss the first hour


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## Fade and Die (Jul 11, 2021)

Need some fresh legs now, mind you we have looked poorer for each sub Southgate has made so far!


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## Italian outcast (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			nice of you to turn up, miss the first hour 

Click to expand...

Hadn't much to share - too stressed


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Need some fresh legs now, mind you we have looked poorer for each sub Southgate has made so far!
		
Click to expand...


Chiesa going off made a massive change, almost balanced it back up again


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Ooh, that was Italian!


----------



## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

What's the card count on the night (so far)?


----------



## Italian outcast (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Ooh, that was Italian!
		
Click to expand...

thought he was OFF there


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

time for the super over  england are good at these (damn wrong sport!!!!)


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

IainP said:



			What's the card count on the night (so far)?
		
Click to expand...

4-0


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2021)

Very lucky to still be in this, awful 2nd half display.

Let’s hope Gareth inspires them and they get back in to this.

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			time for the super over  england are good at these (damn wrong sport!!!!)
		
Click to expand...

We could suggest it?


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 11, 2021)

Italian outcast said:



			thought he was OFF there
		
Click to expand...

Should have been


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

Chiellini throwing his hands up to proclaim his innocence there. Quality. Haha.


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 11, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Should have been
		
Click to expand...

Totally.. there is an issue here that need to be addressed


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Now it's all about the substitutions.


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

Need to win this in extra time - we don’t have five penalty takers on the pitch.


----------



## toyboy54 (Jul 11, 2021)

Watching BBC-Knobend commentator has just HAD to mention extra time and 1966 as having extra time-I like England but the media really do generate apathy/pity/dislike in equal measure.

So,  sorry to family in Cumbria, but come on ITALY ...Get it into them!!


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 11, 2021)

Jermaine Jenas is to commentating what King Herod was to the Bethlehem Playgroup Association.


----------



## Italian outcast (Jul 11, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Jermaine Jenas is to commentating what King Herod was to the Bethlehem Playgroup Association.
		
Click to expand...

He's no Montford


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Need to win this in extra time - we don’t have five penalty takers on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...


got plenty on the bench, maybe thats why hes saving his subs


----------



## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

One for later - should squad members be allowed to take penalties?
Might encourage managers to make subs to try to win the game, rather than keep potential pen takers on just in case.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Henderson looks awful tonight.. nothing like when he came on the other day ..

Hopefully with grealish on in a min will give him someone to work with


----------



## toyboy54 (Jul 11, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Chiellini throwing his hands up to proclaim his innocence there. Quality. Haha.
		
Click to expand...

Mistaken identity- surely


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

IainP said:



			One for later - should squad members be allowed to take penalties?
Might encourage managers to make subs to try to win the game, rather than keep potential pen takers on just in case.
		
Click to expand...

yes including those already subbed off imho


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 11, 2021)

I'd love to see a version of the game where you can name 6 subs, 1 keeper and 5 outfield and the outfield works on rolling subs like a game of 5s, that would be brilliant


----------



## Mudball (Jul 11, 2021)

So is UEFA going to ban England??

https://fb.watch/6H3LWc7w7j/


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Mudball said:



			So is UEFA going to ban England??

https://fb.watch/6H3LWc7w7j/

Click to expand...


nows not the time....


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			nows not the time....
		
Click to expand...

Well no, mid game might be a bit tricky


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

15 minutes to avoid penalties.


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

So, if this goes to penalties, and it gets to 11-11, can I ask that the managers take the 12th penalties for their sides?

Southgate to bury his, top right corner……


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2021)

Not sure what that 1st half of extra time was? Italy eased off and we seem to have nothing up front!!


----------



## Dando (Jul 11, 2021)

The best striker in the world is anonymous again


----------



## Mudball (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			nows not the time....
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately there is never a bad time to stamp out this nonsense


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Just run at Chiellini. He on a yellow and will foul you.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2021)

That was a penalty, Stones was having his shirt dragged off his back!


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Top defending by Chielini.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Henderson looks awful tonight.. nothing like when he came on the other day ..
		
Click to expand...

Only brought him on to take a penalty.


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

Sterling’s end product has been awful at times tonight.


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Italy there to be taken again


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Sterling’s end product has been awful at times tonight.
		
Click to expand...

I'd swap him for Rashford.


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'd swap him for Rashford.
		
Click to expand...

For penalties if no other reason.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Sterling’s end product has been awful at times tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Great ball by Henderson to play him in he should have just played it first time but great defending


----------



## toyboy54 (Jul 11, 2021)

Shocking tackle-that's bloody assault!!!


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

Red card all day long that. And he’s their best penalty taker. If he scores one and Italy win…


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Italians time wasting at every opportunity now.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Letting Italy score was the biggest mistake . (Apart from obvious reasons) they can resort to just kicking you rather than having to play football


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 11, 2021)

Get Saka off, he’s having a stinker.


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Kane Rashford Sancho Sterling and Shaw?


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 11, 2021)

Why take the risk of taking it to penalties?
All this offensive talent on the bench and Italy there for the taking.
Our record in penalty shootouts is not good enough to be confident.
Win or lose why risk the chance of a player becoming another Batty,Southgate,Pearce or Waddle.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			Kane Rashford Sancho Sterling and Shaw?
		
Click to expand...

First 4 yes then I'd say Phillips ...


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

Grealish will take a pen surely.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Grealish will take a pen surely.
		
Click to expand...

I'd have him on them over sterling


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2021)

Oh good grief!!! Penalties 🙄. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 To win.


----------



## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

Well if going to judges scorecards I think Italy edge it on points.
The lottery of penalties...


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

It seems like days ago since we opened the scoring.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

Well whatever happens here , there has been some outstanding performances from some of the England lads tonight , lottery now, strange use of the subs in the second half by Southgate and then bringing on the players to take them - horrible situation now


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2021)

Not the best game, thought we were lucky over 90 minutes, neither team deserved to win in extra time.

Now it’s a lottery. 😩🤞🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## Italian outcast (Jul 11, 2021)

So Jack - you get Pizza Hut, Marcus, KFC for you


----------



## ger147 (Jul 11, 2021)

Which penalty is John Terry taking?


----------



## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

Italian outcast said:



			So Jack - you get Pizza Hut, Marcus, KFC for you 

Click to expand...

Who takes the Giovanni's ad? 😉😉


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Soooooo much responsibility for the young players, it just doesn't feel right.


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 11, 2021)

Irrespective of the result. Italy did dominate for long periods but they should be down to 9 men and they have bought the game into disrepute.. 
England you have done us proud 👏👏👏👏👏


----------



## ger147 (Jul 11, 2021)

Well in breaking with centuries of tradition, good luck England.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2021)

I feel sick 🤢


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Maguire?


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

GREAT PENALTY !!!


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

Now that’s a pen.


----------



## Dando (Jul 11, 2021)

ger147 said:



			Which penalty is John Terry taking?
		
Click to expand...

He’s got his kit on


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Rashford man. Now is not the time for that


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Well those pen "specialists" were a great choice lol


----------



## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

Harsh on the late subs..


----------



## Dando (Jul 11, 2021)

What’s with the stopping and staring in the run ups all about


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Dando said:



			What’s with the stopping and staring in the run ups all about
		
Click to expand...

I absolutely hate all that, except when Bruno does it!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

For crying out loud. We had better choices on the pens


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2021)

Gutted!! 3 misses!


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

congrats Outcast

so sigh  so so sigh


----------



## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

Not quite enough quality on the night


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Well, at least they won't be knighted.


----------



## ger147 (Jul 11, 2021)

Never easy under all that pressure especially for the younger guys but a pretty crap last 3 penalty attempts for England.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2021)

Dando said:



			What’s with the stopping and staring in the run ups all about
		
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One of my pet hates. Run up, whack it.

Carpe diem. We didn't.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 11, 2021)

Well Southgate did well......NOT


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Gutted!! 3 misses! 

Click to expand...

Pickford was outstanding all night..didn't deserve to be on the losing side with those pens!

Rashford man you have to hit the target zero excuse


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## Italian outcast (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			congrats Outcast

so sigh  so so sigh 

Click to expand...

AAACH penalties are a lottery -- genuinely feel sorry for the young English lads
Its good for the spirits here that's for sure


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## need_my_wedge (Jul 11, 2021)

Why on earth was Saka the last  taker? Especially after Radford and Sancho cocked it up so badly.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2021)

Should have kept Jordan on 🤭


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## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

I fear the social media storm that’s about to happen with all three players who missed being black.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

Gutting for the young lads , awful way to lose a tournament , not easy to come on and take a pen - must be a nightmare with a keeper the size of Donarumma in front. Great achievement to get to the final but a huge opportunity missed. Surprised that Phillips or Sterling didn’t take one before
Saka.

Was a decent game apart from ET but they should go into the World Cup feeling confident, they will need to look at the way they play against the top teams - looked lost in the second half. Sometimes you just need to take a risk and Southgate seems afraid to do it


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## HowlingGale (Jul 11, 2021)

Best team in the tournament won. Totally deserved.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Why on earth was Saka the last  taker? Especially after Radford and Sancho cocked it up so badly.
		
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No choice, the list of the 5 and the order they’ll take them is handed to the Ref before the pens begin.


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## RichA (Jul 11, 2021)

Good building block. Smash the World Cup next summer.


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## need_my_wedge (Jul 11, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			No choice, the list of the 5 and the order they’ll take them is handed to the Ref before the pens begin.
		
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Still makes no sense, surely there's more experienced pen takers in the squad


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## Piece (Jul 11, 2021)

There are some embarrassing posts here. 😡 

Mods. Have a word please.


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

seriously how is your penalty taking list, in order:

your striker/pen taker
centre half
sub been on 30 secs
sub been on 30 secs
19 year old deemed too inexperienced to start the final

just doesnt make any sense


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## toyboy54 (Jul 11, 2021)

Was this poor management - putting a 19 y.o. in such a position??
I really don't know, but by hell it certainly shredded the nerves.........what a finish.....got to feel for everyone ( both sides) who had the balls to step up--don't think I could do it...in fact know that I couldn't!!!
Overall though, a great tournament, some great games, good refereeing,not too much swallow diving/gamesmanship!
Maybe one day my mob will do better


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Still makes no sense, surely there's more experienced pen takers in the squad
		
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I didn’t say I agreed with the 5 takers, just answering your point.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			seriously how is your penalty taking list, in order:

your striker/pen taker
centre half
sub been on 30 secs
sub been on 30 secs
19 year old deemed too inexperienced to start the final

just doesnt make any sense 

Click to expand...

Tbf the subs were only brought on for penalties.
I’d av expected Grealish to take one before Saka


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## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Comes back just to post that 🤦‍♂️
What a tool Big Stu la really is 😂
		
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I'm hoping he is drunk and his next post will be an apology.


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## Captainron (Jul 11, 2021)

Italy deserved the win on the balance of play. Pity it was on penalties though. 

I still think that Southgate was far too conservative with his approach there. You need to win the game, not hope that you don’t lose


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Tbf the subs were only brought on for penalties.
I’d av expected Grealish to take one before Saka
		
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Grealish missed a few times for Villa so not overly surprised he didnt take one, not sure where Sterling was hiding. couldve done with some of Mount, Trippier, Rice etc


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## gregbwfc (Jul 11, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Italy deserved the win on the balance of play. Pity it was on penalties though.

I still think that Southgate was far too conservative with his approach there. You need to win the game, not hope that you don’t lose
		
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Couldn't agree more mate.
Should never die wondering.


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Italy deserved the win on the balance of play. Pity it was on penalties though. 

I still think that Southgate was far too conservative with his approach there. You need to win the game, not hope that you don’t lose
		
Click to expand...


been that way since the start of the tournament, thats his approach 

shame because we wont get a better chance to win a tournament


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## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

In hindsight, Southgate wasted chances earlier in the tournament to blood players like Sancho, Rashford and Grealish more and in the end England didn’t have the nous to turn things around. Lessons to be learned.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm hoping he is drunk and his next post will be an apology.
		
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Doubt it


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Feel for Pickford too, despite a few wobbles hes been outstanding in the tournament and saved 2 of the 5 pens, really couldnt ask for much more


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## BiMGuy (Jul 11, 2021)

I for one am proud of the lads and Management of England. They got to a final when many said we'd do nothing.

I fully expect the media and armchair experts to tear them apart.
But let's remember, this is the first England team for 55 years to get to a final. They are a very young squad and will learn from this experience. 

On to the World Cup. ⚽


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## paddyc (Jul 11, 2021)

Way too much pressure  on a 19 year old kid on the last pen. have to question  that decision. I think Sancho had one touch and it was saved.
Italy better side overall.


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## RichA (Jul 11, 2021)

Straight off with the silver medals. Love it. Next year!


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## harpo_72 (Jul 11, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I for one am proud of the lads and Management of England. They got to a final when many said we'd do nothing.

I fully expect the media and armchair experts to tear them apart.
But let's remember, this is the first England team for 55 years to get to a final. They are a very young squad and will learn from this experience.

On to the World Cup. ⚽
		
Click to expand...

Exactly.. it’s a slow build and it’s going good


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## IainP (Jul 11, 2021)

Right, when does the golf start....


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## backwoodsman (Jul 11, 2021)

Did well to get to final. Disappointed we didn't win. But then its only football - real life can continue. Until the World Cup that is.


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## CliveW (Jul 11, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I fear the social media storm that’s about to happen with all three players who missed being black.
		
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You know, I hadn't noticed that. Just shows how differently some folk see things.


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## larmen (Jul 11, 2021)

RichA said:



			Straight off with the silver medals. Love it. Next year!
		
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I don’t get that one, but it’s every cup final, CL, World Cup, … .
Is it so shameful coming 2nd?


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## Beezerk (Jul 11, 2021)

Absolutely gutted.
On the positive, it has outed the people who I suspected to be proper bellends to be just that 👍


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## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

I think if we’re honest the better side, certainly over the 90 minutes, has won. And whilst I am surprised at the choice of penalty takers, the truth is our options were limited.

Sancho and Saka are talented but both very young and inexperienced at the highest level. The nerves doubtless got the better of them. And Rashford’s penalty sums his 2021 up - totally devoid of confidence and very lucky to be anywhere near this squad.

After the first half during which Italy had nearly 70% of the possession, much of it deep in England’s half, there was, I’m afraid, a certain inevitability about the outcome.

But, having said that, I’m still proud to be an England supporter - let’s just hope our supporters across the country don’t now let us down like so many did after the loss to Germany in 1996.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			Feel for Pickford too, despite a few wobbles hes been outstanding in the tournament and saved 2 of the 5 pens, really couldnt ask for much more
		
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So close to a 3rd aswell he was outstanding


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## Captainron (Jul 11, 2021)

Well there’s Qatar to look forward to next year


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## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

CliveW said:



			You know, I hadn't noticed that. Just shows how differently some folk see things.
		
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A racist hashtag was trending almost instantly.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So close to a 3rd aswell he was outstanding
		
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Best keeper in the tournament.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

The Wedge said:



			No point apologising
Last person to do that was hailed as being a respected forum member instead of the crap stirrer he is.
		
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Funny that .. you joined Monday? After the apology.. so either you are a massive stalker or a banned previous member..


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

larmen said:



			I don’t get that one, but it’s every cup final, CL, World Cup, … .
Is it so shameful coming 2nd?
		
Click to expand...

It should be seen as an achievement to get to the final in a major tournament

This comment sums up England

Rafael van der Vaart 🗣️: "This England side... they spend the whole game with their ass in their own box while having so much quality in the squad. It's sad."

England best players - Walker , Rice , Maguire , Pickford- all defensive minded players

Such a wonderful array of attacking players on the bench plus baffling tactics after half time . The talent in the squad should put them into the favourites for the WC but that squad needs to be better utilised , zero touches for Kane in the box ? Surely the manager didn’t ask him to play that way 

It’s raw at the moment but just like Russia - can’t allow things to be ignored because the got to a final


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Best keeper in the tournament.
		
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Close second to the Italian one maybe for the win


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## Italian outcast (Jul 11, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Best keeper in the tournament.
		
Click to expand...

He is very good - don't understand the criticism he gets
He certainly kept us up for one more season of pain a few years back


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## Region3 (Jul 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I think if we’re honest the better side, certainly over the 90 minutes, has won.
		
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I‘m no expert but I honestly think if Italy had scored early instead of us that we’d have been the better team over 90 minutes. I thought we looked the more likely during the times the game was level, and it was only our sitting deep and inviting pressure that gave Italy the chance to look the better team.

Is that a case of sideline instructions or a result of having 7 defensive minded players in the starting line up.


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## Mudball (Jul 11, 2021)

Well done Eng.. should hold their heads high… I hope the powers to be keep Southgate and he gets to keep this team. Young players who have got baptised here 

2018 WC.. . Semi Finalist 
2020 Euro… Finalist
2022 WC….  Surely it is ours. 

Come on England …


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## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

Italian outcast said:



			He is very good - don't understand the criticism he gets
He certainly kept us up for one more season of pain a few years back
		
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Hey you, have a great evening and congratulations.
Italy deserved it.


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## larmen (Jul 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Close second to the Italian one maybe for the win
		
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He got player of the tournament. I can’t remember a goalie ever getting it.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Region3 said:



			I‘m no expert but I honestly think if Italy had scored early instead of us that we’d have been the better team over 90 minutes. I thought we looked the more likely during the times the game was level, and it was only our sitting deep and inviting pressure that gave Italy the chance to look the better team.

Is that a case of sideline instructions or a result of having 7 defensive minded players in the starting line up.
		
Click to expand...

Ironically maigure didn't miss his pen and Phillips and stones I think would have scored


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Region3 said:



			I‘m no expert but I honestly think if Italy had scored early instead of us that we’d have been the better team over 90 minutes. I thought we looked the more likely during the times the game was level, and it was only our sitting deep and inviting pressure that gave Italy the chance to look the better team.

Is that a case of sideline instructions or a result of having 7 defensive minded players in the starting line up.
		
Click to expand...


hello stranger, hope youre well 

combination of both, leading and a defensive first approach manager


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## RichA (Jul 11, 2021)

larmen said:



			I don’t get that one, but it’s every cup final, CL, World Cup, … .
Is it so shameful coming 2nd?
		
Click to expand...

Not shameful at all. It's just obvious that this team is good enough to win something. I've lived through 12 World Cups and I haven't felt so positive about an England team in my life.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

The game was lost in the first half really we were on top should have buried them 

Went inside ourselfs .. let them come onto us and it cost us the game deep down 

Once they got a goal they could revert to kicking and breaking up play .. rather than coming at us 

Thoroughly deserve the win as they wanted it more


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 11, 2021)

Stats were surprising...........67% Italy at 90 mins.
It did not fell like that. 
Best team won, when England scored so early I thought it would go against them.

Lots of unused fireworks for sale tomorrow.


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## Region3 (Jul 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Ironically maigure didn't miss his pen and Phillips and stones I think would have scored
		
Click to expand...

Maguire’s penalty was absolute class, and IMO the right way to do it.

Pick a spot the goalie isn’t going to save it and have the belief in yourself that someone paid £100k+ per week to kick a ball can kick it where they want to from 12 yards. None of this stuttering and trying to commit the gk to choosing a side before you decide which way to go.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Stats were surprising...........67% Italy at 90 mins.
It did not fell like that.
Best team won, when England scored so early I thought it would go against them.

Lots of unused fireworks for sale tomorrow. 

Click to expand...

Dunno their letting them off round here.. luckily the white noise machine is holding up ATM


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## Jamesbrown (Jul 11, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I fear the social media storm that’s about to happen with all three players who missed being black.
		
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Do you look for faux social injustices in everything or something? Give it a break, have a drink, get an escort or something. Anything.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Region3 said:



			Maguire’s penalty was absolute class, and IMO the right way to do it.

Pick a spot the goalie isn’t going to save it and have the belief in yourself that someone paid £100k+ per week to kick a ball can kick it where they want to from 12 yards. None of this stuttering and trying to commit the gk to choosing a side before you decide which way to go.
		
Click to expand...

Rashford did everything right sending him wrong way but to then miss the target makes you look an idiot


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

the state of Sakas instagram  I doubt Rashford or Sanchos are any different

so utterly disgustingly disgraceful and so little will be done about it


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## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2021)

Region3 said:



			I‘m no expert but I honestly think if Italy had scored early instead of us that we’d have been the better team over 90 minutes. I thought we looked the more likely during the times the game was level, and it was only our sitting deep and inviting pressure that gave Italy the chance to look the better team.

Is that a case of sideline instructions or a result of having 7 defensive minded players in the starting line up.
		
Click to expand...

It is genuinely frustrating given the talent at Southgate’s disposal but, hey, it almost worked.

That said, you simply can’t sit that deep, and concede possession to a side of Italy’s quality. I did say to my lad that scoring that early may have been our undoing - we always needed a second.

But this is a young squad which will learn from the last four or five weeks. Let’s hope they continue on their upward curve and that the manager shows just a little more faith in his flair players. I have a feeling his conservative approach will have pundits on the continent scratching their heads.


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## Region3 (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			the state of Sakas instagram  I doubt Rashford or Sanchos are any different

so utterly disgustingly disgraceful and so little will be done about it
		
Click to expand...

I can only guess 

I hope there’s lots of support there too, or even better that he doesn’t look at it for a while.


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## toyboy54 (Jul 11, 2021)

Just been sent the updated Three Lions wording as--

" It's going ROME, It's going ROME,
  Football's going ROME again!!!"

Quite humourous I thought??


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			the state of Sakas instagram  I doubt Rashford or Sanchos are any different

so utterly disgustingly disgraceful and so little will be done about it
		
Click to expand...

It's 2021 for crying out loud.

It was bad enough back in the day but grow up people.


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2021)

Region3 said:



			I can only guess 

I hope there’s lots of support there too, or even better that he doesn’t look at it for a while.
		
Click to expand...


genuinely someone should delete his account before hes out of the changing room


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## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

Jamesbrown said:



			Do you look for faux social injustices in everything or something? Give it a break, have a drink, get an escort or something. Anything.
		
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What are you banging on about? Racism is a faux social injustice?


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## pokerjoke (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm hoping he is drunk and his next post will be an apology.
		
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In a few weeks after his ban


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			genuinely someone should delete his account before hes out of the changing room
		
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It’s disgusting but the worst part is people expected it to happen - a 19 year old lad who they prob praised three days ago misses a penalty so they racially abuse him for it - it’s the brain dead level of some areas of social media , hopefully he gets all the support he needs , heck of a player and plays with a great smile


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2021)

Kaz said:



			I was thinking that a penalty is about as close to golf as football can get. The ball's at rest, you need to hit the target and the pressure of missing can make it difficult to execute a move you've done thousands of times before.

Coming on as a sub in the last minute of a major final and being asked to hit a penalty when you've possibly not even had a kick must be like teeing off on the first at the Open without hitting any shots on the range beforehand.

So difficult for those players.
		
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Should have been brought on half time in extra time 

Given 15 mins to get to speed and who knows with them we might have won outright or lost but would least be same outcome


Positive we took it  basically as far as possible without winning (minus sudden death)


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## pokerjoke (Jul 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			Feel for Pickford too, despite a few wobbles hes been outstanding in the tournament and saved 2 of the 5 pens, really couldnt ask for much more
		
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That save from the 4th penalty was unbelievable,he’s been outstanding like you say


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## Slime (Jul 11, 2021)

I wonder what our abiding highlight of this tournament will be.
My undoubted highlight was the sight of Christian Eriksen sitting up as he was stretchered off.
That really put football in perspective.


I'm going to bed, good night all.


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## hairball_89 (Jul 11, 2021)

My thoughts, briefly. The Italians were the team to beat from game 1. Literally. A top top class team, brilliantly drilled and some super players. Chiellini is a hell of a captain. 

Pens? Thought it was odd Rashford looked good to come on at ht in extra time but just stood there for 13 mins. But the killer for me was southgate allowing Saka to have the 5th pen. You know  if it goes to 5 it's pressure. Saka looked lost for most of the game. He's 19. He didn't need that pressure. Especially when you've got sterling, Shaw, stones - all top, experienced players - on the pitch. Poor. 

But, overall, I've struggled to get excited by England for a long long time. This team did it. Roll on the world cup, because they're going to get better together. Why can't they go one better? It's hard. Of course it is. But they're quite good at football, in my book!


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## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I wonder what our abiding highlight of this tournament will be.
My undoubted highlight was the sight of Christian Eriksen sitting up as he was stretchered off.
That really put football in perspective.
		
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Schick’s wonder strike for me.


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## Kellfire (Jul 12, 2021)

Seems quite a few ticketless fans were able to get into the final and security couldn’t cope.


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## 4LEX (Jul 12, 2021)

Absolute bottle job from the line up to the finish.

No excuse for the performance from the goal to the finish. Utter cowardice. Italy were on the ropes in the first half and Southgate bottled it. You can't fault Rashford or Sancho as they've been criminally underused. Saka has been one of our best players. The side deserves better than a Boro reject and FA PR guy. 

We've got the best and most exciting squad on the planet and it's being managed by a nomark clown. Total fraud. Two major tournaments and bottled both, no lessons learnt.


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## 4LEX (Jul 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Seems quite a few ticketless fans were able to get into the final and security couldn’t cope.
		
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Wembley is an easy jib. Got in to watch Man Utd various timess. The stewards aren't paid enough to kick off so they turn a blind eye.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

We were just not good enough.
Ref bottled three big decisions.
Penalty on Sterling, two red cards for Italy.
Mount and Kane anonymous.
Sick of hearing “how much talent is on the bench “but they stayed on the bench that’s no good.
We just didn’t trouble the old guys at the back enough.
It shows you can practice your penalties as much as you like but it comes down to pressure in the end, and some of the older experienced players bottled taking a penalty, and just sent out the kids.

All the talent in the world can’t compensate for a cautious manager.


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## 4LEX (Jul 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			A racist hashtag was trending almost instantly.
		
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Stop giving the minority of idiots airtime. England are as one, win together and lose together. Twitter isn't a great reflection on the countries views.

Rashford, Saka and Sancho are loved


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## Kellfire (Jul 12, 2021)

Those who want to pretend there isn’t a racist element in the England fanbase may want to avoid the news this morning. 

The sad thing is it was so predictable.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			We were just not good enough.
Ref bottled three big decisions.
Penalty on Sterling, two red cards for Italy.
Mount and Kane anonymous.
Sick of hearing “how much talent is on the bench “but they stayed on the bench that’s no good.
We just didn’t trouble the old guys at the back enough.
It shows you can practice your penalties as much as you like but it comes down to pressure in the end, and some of the older experienced players bottled taking a penalty, and just sent out the kids.

All the talent in the world can’t compensate for a cautious manager.
		
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Totally agree. We needed pace up front, not statues.
Perhaps Paddy Power had been advising Southgate, only someone forgot to put the bell inside the ball.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 12, 2021)

I think England played dominantly for the first 20 minutes. Kane’s first half was very good. But the Italian subs changed it and they got into the game they stretched us wide. 
But yes 2 red cards for sure, I don’t think this should be over looked and also the number of yellows for cynical fouls .. England can hold their heads up high, we played the game not the man.
As for the penalties, my heart goes out to Rashford, Sancho and especially Saka. It’s a lottery and someone either has theirs saved or they miss. 
Had Italy lost their Captain it would have been another matter, but that’s football and that’s being English.
Celebrate their achievements as they have gone further than any English football team in 55 years .. I hope we see more great tournament performances and we take a position of being a side to beat. 
I applaud them.


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## bobmac (Jul 12, 2021)

Can someone explain something to me please.
Why was the match on so late?
I thought kick off was normally at 3pm


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## Fade and Die (Jul 12, 2021)

Southgate has had a lot of praise in the tournament and rightly so in my opinion but I think it became obvious during the second half that Italy were taking control of the game and he should have responded. I’m not sure if Declan Rice was injured or knackered but it was a mistake to take him off if he wasn’t.

Now, obviously I am watching through claret glasses to a degree, but Rice was having a Stormer 
When he got the ball, he made things happen.
So why did he replace him with a has-been who did absolutely nothing when he came on?

If you are going to take Rice off , then put someone on who's going to actually change the game. 

And to send two players on with only a couple of minutes left purely to take penalties was a massive risk which backfired. I mean I’ve seen some bad penalties, and then I saw Rashfords!…… I hope the kids Chuck their dinners at him.😁


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 12, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			And to send two players on with only a couple of minutes left purely to take penalties was a massive risk which backfired. I mean I’ve seen some bad penalties, and then I saw Rashfords!…… I hope the kids Chuck there dinners at him.😁
		
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Maybe he should've spent more time practising penalties this year rather than trying to feed starving school kids. Might have been a different result.






(And just because I know how this place can be sometimes, that was a joke)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

bobmac said:



			Can someone explain something to me please.
Why was the match on so late?
I thought kick off was normally at 3pm
		
Click to expand...

major tournament finals are mainly evening kick off at the weekend , allows for a big worldwide audience plus removes the chance of clashing with other major sporting events , in this case the Mens Wimbledon Final



Fade and Die said:



			Southgate has had a lot of praise in the tournament and rightly so in my opinion but I think it became obvious during the second half that Italy were taking control of the game and he should have responded. I’m not sure if Declan Rice was injured or knackered but it was a mistake to take him off if he wasn’t.

Now, obviously I am watching through claret glasses to a degree, but Rice was having a Stormer
When he got the ball, he made things happen.
*So why did he replace him with a has-been who did absolutely nothing when he came on?*

If you are going to take Rice off , then put someone on who's going to actually change the game.

And to send two players on with only a couple of minutes left purely to take penalties was a massive risk which backfired. I mean I’ve seen some bad penalties, and then I saw Rashfords!…… I hope the kids Chuck their dinners at him.😁
		
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Didn’t take too long for the club bias to come through

Has been 🤦‍♂️ - Rice was playing well defensively was clearly shattered and the Italian midfield was controlling the game with the game starting to pass him by , Phillips it seems has better fitness levels so they went with Rice and brought on a very expirenced player who has been in those moments in finals before .


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## bobmac (Jul 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			major tournament finals are mainly evening kick off at the weekend , allows for a big worldwide audience plus removes the chance of *clashing with other major sporting events , in this case the Mens Wimbledon Final*


Didn’t take too long for the club bias to come through

Has been 🤦‍♂️
		
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Makes sense I suppose.
I thought it was to give the fans more time to get drunker


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## IanM (Jul 12, 2021)

Better team won.  Experience told.  

But England continue to progress,  some young players in white will be older and wiser come the World Cup. (held every 4 years for those not aware😉)


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## Rlburnside (Jul 12, 2021)

All the talent in the world can’t compensate for a cautious manager.[/QUOTE]


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

bobmac said:



			Makes sense I suppose.
I thought it was to give the fans more time to get drunker  

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Well it’s not normally an issue with most countries - but as we have seen there are a good number of England fans that are unable to behave before and after a game - and looking at some of the videos it’s not just the alcohol, videos of them snorting cocaine before and during the match. It then allows them to be brave enough to racially abuse the players when the result doesn’t go their way - there is imo no doubt that England won’t host a major football tournament for a long time now. Shame as it’s spoilt the achievements of the players and the enjoyment of the many fans who could behave.


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## Rlburnside (Jul 12, 2021)

[QUOTE

All the talent in the world can’t compensate for a cautious manager.[/QUOTE]

Sums it up for me, lost our way in the first half by sitting to deep and conceding possession, some poor performance on the day as well didn’t help Sterling ,Mount , Saka we’re hardly in the game


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## Kellfire (Jul 12, 2021)

Southgate’s fascination with Mount certainly didn’t pay off. A tournament too soon for him maybe.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2021)

On positive notes, I don't know if a team of the tournament has been announced but for the first time in a long time we should have a few in there. I'd nominate:

Pickford 
Shaw
Walker (never thought I'd say that)
Philips 
Sterling

Take your pick of players from other teams but those players should be there or there about


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## Kellfire (Jul 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On positive notes, I don't know if a team of the tournament has been announced but for the first time in a long time we should have a few in there. I'd nominate:

Pickford
Shaw
Walker (never thought I'd say that)
Philips
Sterling

Take your pick of players from other teams but those players should be there or there about
		
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Donnarumma got player of the tournament so Pickford wouldn’t make any official team but he was very good for the most, albeit he looked very jittery at times last night.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On positive notes, I don't know if a team of the tournament has been announced but for the first time in a long time we should have a few in there. I'd nominate:

Pickford
Shaw
Walker (never thought I'd say that)
Philips
Sterling

Take your pick of players from other teams but those players should be there or there about
		
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Donnarumma

Walker
Chellini
Christensen
Spinazzola

Phillips
Jorginho
Pedri

Insigne
Schick 
Sterling


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## Ethan (Jul 12, 2021)

As a kind of neutral, I feel for England. They had a great tournament overall, and exceeded reasonable expectations. It is kinda hard to say that the Southgate style failed badly after having got them that far. They dominated the first half but were on the back foot for much of the second. The penalties were cruel. I felt for Rashford and Sancho having barely kicked a ball before talking their penalties. And I think people were surprised to see the 19 year old Saka come forward to  take the final penalty. Where were Sterling, Shaw, Grealish etc?

In the end, I think the better team won, but it was so so close, and once they get over the hurt, England should realise they have a great basis for the World Cup 2022.


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## Voyager EMH (Jul 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On positive notes, I don't know if a team of the tournament has been announced but for the first time in a long time we should have a few in there. I'd nominate:

Pickford
Shaw
Walker (never thought I'd say that)
Philips
Sterling

Take your pick of players from other teams but those players should be there or there about
		
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I agree, except I would put Maguire before all of them. Showed his class everywhere and anywhere he went on the pitch every game.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 12, 2021)

Gutted. Cold light of day and still trying to come to terms with the loss. My heart is saying we'll just kick on and win the big one next year. My head is wondering if we can do that with Gareth in charge. I think he made a lot of mistakes last night. Saka on for Trippier - not a great choice and Saka looked out of position but also like a rabbit in the headlights - so him taking the first sudden death penalty was a shocking choice. I'm not sure how much is the manager's choice or players sticking their hand up and saying they feel confident to take one.

Then the final two subs. So late we almost didn't get them on the pitch for their penalties (wish we hadn't). It was so tight and even then Rashford wasn't ready and ran back for something? The guy just isn't on it and hasn't been for a while - off pitch commitments possibly impacting way too much.

Feel most sorry for Pickford and Saka. I can't pretend I didn't slaughter Rashford for his pathetic penalty but, once calmer, tried to appreciate the nerves and his decision. Do they practice that penalty? I reckon it works 1 in 5 and the other 4 the taker looks ridiculous. Just step up and hit it hard.

Not sure what rubbish was posted on here by the usual suspects but assume some delight was taken at others misery - says a lot about them as people if you ask me. Not the sort to have anything to do with and not the sort to pay any attention to. They're quite simply just sad, unhappy, bitter individuals.

I'm now looking forward to some decent sleep and no more late nights!! Until the Olympics...


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## Kellfire (Jul 12, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Gutted. Cold light of day and still trying to come to terms with the loss. My heart is saying we'll just kick on and win the big one next year. My head is wondering if we can do that with Gareth in charge. I think he made a lot of mistakes last night. Saka on for Trippier - not a great choice and Saka looked out of position but also like a rabbit in the headlights - so him taking the first sudden death penalty was a shocking choice. I'm not sure how much is the manager's choice or players sticking their hand up and saying they feel confident to take one.

Then the final two subs. So late we almost didn't get them on the pitch for their penalties (wish we hadn't). It was so tight and even then Rashford wasn't ready and ran back for something? The guy just isn't on it and hasn't been for a while - off pitch commitments possibly impacting way too much.

Feel most sorry for Pickford and Saka. I can't pretend I didn't slaughter Rashford for his pathetic penalty but, once calmer, tried to appreciate the nerves and his decision. Do they practice that penalty? I reckon it works 1 in 5 and the other 4 the taker looks ridiculous. Just step up and hit it hard.

Not sure what rubbish was posted on here by the usual suspects but assume some delight was taken at others misery - says a lot about them as people if you ask me. Not the sort to have anything to do with and not the sort to pay any attention to. They're quite simply just sad, unhappy, bitter individuals.

I'm now looking forward to some decent sleep and no more late nights!! Until the Olympics...
		
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It’s been pretty measured on here apart from Stu dropping a C bomb.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			It’s been pretty measured on here apart from Stu dropping a C bomb.
		
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Ah ha. Wondered what that was all about - classy.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 12, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Ah ha. Wondered what that was all about - classy.
		
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He has been duly Fraggered 😡


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## RichA (Jul 12, 2021)

Cynical professionalism won through in the end. Southgate's tactics were ok, up until the very late subs and the 5 picked to take the penalties. 
If England had gone all out to score in the second half of extra time, we probably wouldn't have made it to penalties.


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## Dando (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			We were just not good enough.
Ref bottled three big decisions.
Penalty on Sterling, two red cards for Italy.
Mount and Kane anonymous.
Sick of hearing “how much talent is on the bench “but they stayed on the bench that’s no good.
We just didn’t trouble the old guys at the back enough.
It shows you can practice your penalties as much as you like but it comes down to pressure in the end, and some of the older experienced players bottled taking a penalty, and just sent out the kids.

All the talent in the world can’t compensate for a cautious manager.
		
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2 red cards? 

Definitely one for jorghino but what was the other one for?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Should have been brought on half time in extra time

Given 15 mins to get to speed and who knows with them we might have won outright or lost but would least be same outcome


Positive we took it  basically as far as possible without winning (minus sudden death)
		
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Playing 15 mins ET without two key defenders would have been a bit silly.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

Were to start! Certainly a night of mixed emotions, fantastic start and the next 10-15 minutes looked like we could get 2 or 3, unfortunately Italy gradually grew in to the game to the point were they may of grabbed an equaliser by half time before dominating the 2nd half and we were lucky to be level after 90 minutes.

Extra time was a damp squib with both teams settling for pens imo.

I’ve no issue with any of the penalties, Southgate said they’d practised every day and he knew his first 5.

Overall as a tournament:

Best team overall won it.

Lots of positives for England, Pickford, Sterling, Stones, Maquire, Walker, Philips, Southgate

A few negatives for England:
Lack of a Plan B from Southgate. Few Players seem to be going missing at times.

Southgate will undoubtably be in charge for Qatar and I fear we’ll be discussing his same shortcomings during that tournament.

It really is pointless having all that talent if it isn’t used and utilised, other teams we played had no issues using their 4-5 subs early on, we seemed reluctant, not sure why that is, the only difference was the Ukraine match when we were home and dried.

Certainly deserve to be optimistic going forward and I’d love these young players to have great a season for their Club and to force Southgate in to using them.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jul 12, 2021)

Not the result we all wanted but I think the campaign was hugely positive on the pitch. The guys gave everything and just fell short. 

There's no shame in losing, they should all be very proud of themselves for their efforts over the last few weeks.

I'm certain this result will hurt a few players, hopefully they'll dust themselves off and respond positively in Qatar. 

Unfortunately, the scenes from in and around London/Wembley were horrific. Those who were part of the disgraceful behaviour should be ashamed, they give the real match going fans up and down the country a bad reputation.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Gutted. Cold light of day and still trying to come to terms with the loss. My heart is saying we'll just kick on and win the big one next year. My head is wondering if we can do that with Gareth in charge. I think he made a lot of mistakes last night. Saka on for Trippier - not a great choice and Saka looked out of position but also like a rabbit in the headlights - so him taking the first sudden death penalty was a shocking choice. I'm not sure how much is the manager's choice or players sticking their hand up and saying they feel confident to take one.

Then the final two subs. So late we almost didn't get them on the pitch for their penalties (wish we hadn't). It was so tight and even then Rashford wasn't ready and ran back for something? The guy just isn't on it and hasn't been for a while - off pitch commitments possibly impacting way too much.

Feel most sorry for Pickford and Saka. I can't pretend I didn't slaughter Rashford for his pathetic penalty but, once calmer, tried to appreciate the nerves and his decision. Do they practice that penalty? I reckon it works 1 in 5 and the other 4 the taker looks ridiculous. Just step up and hit it hard.

Not sure what rubbish was posted on here by the usual suspects but assume some delight was taken at others misery - says a lot about them as people if you ask me. Not the sort to have anything to do with and not the sort to pay any attention to. They're quite simply just sad, unhappy, bitter individuals.

I'm now looking forward to some decent sleep and no more late nights!! Until the Olympics...
		
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Just a minor point, Saka was taking our 5th penalty, He had no choice and couldn’t be changed.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Just a minor point, Saka was taking our 5th penalty, He had no choice and couldn’t be changed.
		
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Oh yes - brain in a fog and need another 20 coffees yet.

When are the takers nominated?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Oh yes - brain in a fog and need another 20 coffees yet.

When are the takers nominated?
		
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List given to Ref just prior to start of shoot out.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			List given to Ref just prior to start of shoot out.
		
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Hmmm. That 5th one had every chance of being crucial. Poor management I think. Even if he said "I can do it boss" they should have picked someone more experienced - if we had one willing to take it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Hmmm. That 5th one had every chance of being crucial. Poor management I think. Even if he said "I can do it boss" they should have picked someone more experienced - if we had one willing to take it.
		
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100% - But Southgate did take responsibility.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			I agree, except I would put Maguire before all of them. Showed his class everywhere and anywhere he went on the pitch every game.
		
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Apart from his kicking to touch which would have matched Finn Russell at times.

Personally I do not consider a player has missed a penalty if his/her shot is saved by the goalkeeper.


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## CliveW (Jul 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			major tournament finals are mainly evening kick off at the weekend , allows for a big worldwide audience plus removes the chance of clashing with other major sporting events , in this case the Mens Wimbledon Final
		
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There was never any mention of who won the Wimbledon final on the news last night. Can't have been that important!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Not the result we all wanted but I think the campaign was hugely positive on the pitch. The guys gave everything and just fell short.

There's no shame in losing, they should all be very proud of themselves for their efforts over the last few weeks.

I'm certain this result will hurt a few players, hopefully they'll dust themselves off and respond positively in Qatar.

Unfortunately, the scenes from in and around London/Wembley were horrific. *Those who were part of the disgraceful behaviour should be ashamed, they give the real match going fans up and down the country a bad reputation.*

Click to expand...

Any proof some of these scum bags don’t follow their Club during the season?


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## Beezerk (Jul 12, 2021)

I'm taking the Scottish approach.
Great 1-1 victory for England last night 🙌🤣


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## Bdill93 (Jul 12, 2021)

We should have done better...

Penos were absolutely garbage. Feel for Pickford, he did everything a keeper needs to do to win a shootout.


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## Junior (Jul 12, 2021)

Dando said:



			2 red cards?

Definitely one for jorghino but what was the other one for?
		
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There was a studs up tackle in the first half that I've seen reds given for.

I wish we could have kept going like we did in the first half, but, as with the semi in the last world Cup, we ended up too deep and playing long balls back to them.

Whilst I get the need for the defensive start, Forden, Sancho, Rushford should have been introduced with 20 minutes to go.  Southgates only mistake imo.  

It was a great tournament and to compete and get to the final was fantastic...... I enjoyed watching it all.   Made a nice change from the doom and gloom of Covid mania.


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## need_my_wedge (Jul 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I didn’t say I agreed with the 5 takers, just answering your point.

Click to expand...

Wasn't disagreeing with you either . I'm just surprised that out of the whole team, Southgate chose a  19 year old lad, playing his first few games for the team, as one of his 5 takers. I would have thought an older head with more experience made more sense, it was a huge pressure to put on Saka, especially since Rashford and Sancho had already cocked up so badly. Watching Southgate after, it seems that the Saka put his hand up, and was one of the better takers in practice, at least that's the way I remember him talking from last night. 

I don't get the stop jig to try and make the keeper commit, just pick a spot and blast it, if the keeper saves it, fair enough. But this stutter run is just prone to the issues we saw last night.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jul 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Any proof some of these scum bags don’t follow their Club during the season?
		
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No doubt they absolutely do follow their clubs across the 4or5 football leagues up and down the country.

I'm  not quite sure what proof you want me to give you but let me make myself a tad clearer.

Yesterday there were many St George flags inside Wembley stadium from fans of clubs up and down the country. 

The behaviour of those cretins outside Wembley and around the city yesterday tars the reputation of those inside the ground unfortunately.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Wasn't disagreeing with you either . I'm just surprised that out of the whole team, Southgate chose a  19 year old lad, playing his first few games for the team, as one of his 5 takers. I would have thought an older head with more experience made more sense, it was a huge pressure to put on Saka, especially since Rashford and Sancho had already cocked up so badly. Watching Southgate after, it seems that the Saka put his hand up, and was one of the better takers in practice, at least that's the way I remember him talking from last night.

I don't get the stop jig to try and make the keeper commit, just pick a spot and blast it, if the keeper saves it, fair enough. But this stutter run is just prone to the issues we saw last night.
		
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Agreed, but as I put before and as Southgate stated and, imo, rushed Rashford and Sancho on to the pitch, they’d practised everyday in training so they must of discussed the five takers and the order they would take them.

The older heads may of wanted to step up and Southgate decided against it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			No doubt they absolutely do follow their clubs across the 4or5 football leagues up and down the country.

I'm  not quite sure what proof you want me to give you but let me make myself a tad clearer.

Yesterday there were many St George flags inside Wembley stadium from fans of clubs up and down the country.

The behaviour of those cretins outside Wembley and around the city yesterday tars the reputation of those inside the ground unfortunately.
		
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Totally agree they are absolutely embarrassing and if identified should be locked up, but your initial post stated “they give the *real* match going fans up and down the country a bad reputation” 

Just not sure how you can differentiate who is “real” and who isn’t.


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## Slime (Jul 12, 2021)

Junior said:



			Whilst I get the need for the defensive start, Foden, Sancho, Rushford should have been introduced with 20 minutes to go.  Southgates only mistake imo.

It was a great tournament and to compete and get to the final was fantastic...... I enjoyed watching it all.   Made a nice change from the doom and gloom of Covid mania.
		
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Foden wasn't there, he was injured, but I do agree with your sentiment entirely.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jul 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree they are absolutely embarrassing and if identified should be locked up, but your initial post stated “they give the *real* match going fans up and down the country a bad reputation”

Just not sure how you can differentiate who is “real” and who isn’t.
		
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Apologies my bad, I've made an assumption that those "fans" in Leicester Sq and other places aren't real match going fans just by looking at the pictures.

I stopped going to football grounds late 1990's but I've been to many up and down the country and seen enough bad behaviour to differentiate real fans and the cretins we seen yesterday.


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## Whereditgo (Jul 12, 2021)

There was no plan 'B', the England wingbacks were causing all sorts of problems in the first 30 minutes, then Italy changed their game and started the high press, they dominated possession and there was no outlet when we did regain the ball, I was screaming at the tv for Southgate to change something, but imo he is a defender and reverts to type, doesn't have the imagination required for the bigger picture, I get the feeling that he is so intent on not losing that he becomes too scared of losing to win, he is a nice guy but has no clue how to harness the incredible pool of young talent available, it's not just him either, he has a whole management team around him.

The penalties were always going to be a lottery, but to bring on two penalty takers with no time for them to get into the game was totally unfair on them!

On the whole Italy played the better game and the best side won.


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## Dando (Jul 12, 2021)

Junior said:



			There was a studs up tackle in the first half that I've seen reds given for.

I wish we could have kept going like we did in the first half, but, as with the semi in the last world Cup, we ended up too deep and playing long balls back to them.

Whilst I get the need for the defensive start, Forden, Sancho, Rushford should have been introduced with 20 minutes to go.  Southgates only mistake imo.  

It was a great tournament and to compete and get to the final was fantastic...... I enjoyed watching it all.   Made a nice change from the doom and gloom of Covid mania.
		
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I don’t recall the 1st half challenge


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## Dando (Jul 12, 2021)

After last night Marcus Rashford is bookies favorite to win this years strictly come dancing


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

It’s got to feel like a huge opportunity missed , during the run up and in the preview show there was lot of talk about the bench and that in a tight game England held the aces up their sleeves with the power coming off the bench - the starting line up was solid to provide a platform that they produced but you could see that when Italy were tiring in ET it was the perfect chance to use that pace from the bench - but the players were criminally under used throughout - Sancho who has shone in the Bundasliga all year , even the German players can’t understand why he doesn’t get more minutes , Rashford just sitting there each game , Grealish under used. 

Last night was the time to really go for it - step out of your normal Southgate and bring on the firepower that many managers would love - don’t be afraid to take off the likes of Kane and Sterling , don’t have two sitting mids , go for it - could you see the likes of Pep or Klopp etc be so defensive looking for the lottery of pens. Got to be very disappointing despite a great achievement getting to the final 

I’m not sure if England will have another chance like that in the near future- everything dropped into their lap and just once again failed to get past a top level side when needed - Southgate either needs to be replaced or they add a coach into his team - he clearly is a superb man manager but tactics wise seems niave 



HomecountiesJohn said:



			No doubt they absolutely do follow their clubs across the 4or5 football leagues up and down the country.

I'm  not quite sure what proof you want me to give you but let me make myself a tad clearer.

Yesterday there were many St George flags inside Wembley stadium from fans of clubs up and down the country.

The behaviour of those cretins outside Wembley and around the city yesterday tars the reputation of those inside the ground unfortunately.
		
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It’s always the way it seems - England rugby reached a final recently , none of what was seen last night , they lost - no one abused the players . This was a perfect chance to show that England or indeed the UK can host a World Cup , that’s gone now and a blind eye can’t be turned to it , or it all brushed under the carpet , it’s time the media step up as well


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## DaveR (Jul 12, 2021)

England have a squad capable of winning the World Cup next year but it won't happen if Southgate is in charge.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 12, 2021)

Well in the cold light of day it's same old and imo will be in Qatar too. 

I'm not his biggest fan but accepted that he would get the world cup the second we beat Germany. 

Just seems much like Croatia that a team gets to grips with us and he isn't flexible/brave enough to make adequate changes. 

Totally agree with Keane too. Some of the order members should be ashamed of themselves leaving Sako to the pens. Irrespective of Gareth saying it was his choice.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jul 12, 2021)

DaveR said:



			England have a squad capable of winning the World Cup next year but it won't happen if Southgate is in charge.
		
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I feel for Southgate, he comes across as real genuine guy with a fantastic work ethic. I think he's earned another shot at a tournament although I'm not sure we can afford to be giving managers too much time. It's a very fine line.

If the FA did make the change, I'd like to see Lampard given the job, he worked wonders with that Chelsea squad giving the youth a chance. He's got all the playing experience and is a England Legend.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Donnarumma got player of the tournament so Pickford wouldn’t make any official team but he was very good for the most, albeit he looked very jittery at times last night.
		
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I wouldn't argue against that, he is a class act. Pickford would have been on the bench though .

It is always subjective but the players I picked out were all worthy, although there could well have been better in other teams. I guess my point is that this is a tournament where we genuinely have had players up for discussion for the team of the tournament. Something to be pleased about.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

Dando said:



			2 red cards?

Definitely one for jorghino but what was the other one for?
		
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The assault on Saka bringing him down by the scruff of his neck.
So 19 yr old lightning fast verses a 35 yr old CB level with him at best.
I would not give him any chance of catching him at all, so 
Chealini is the last man imo.
That’s red. Ref bottled it.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 12, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			I feel for Southgate, he comes across as real genuine guy with a fantastic work ethic. I think he's earned another shot at a tournament although I'm not sure we can afford to be giving managers too much time. It's a very fine line.

If the FA did make the change, I'd like to see Lampard given the job, he worked wonders with that Chelsea squad giving the youth a chance. He's got all the playing experience and is a England Legend.
		
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Lampard? 
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Kellfire (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The assault on Saka bringing him down by the scruff of his neck.
So 19 yr old lightning fast verses a 35 yr old CB level with him at best.
I would not give him any chance of catching him at all, so
Chealini is the last man imo.
That’s red. Ref bottled it.
		
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Being last man doesn’t make it a red card.


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## IainP (Jul 12, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I'm taking the Scottish approach.
Great 1-1 victory for England last night 🙌🤣
		
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Being serious for a moment, the stat I expect GS will be focusing on is England went through the whole tournament without losing to any team in regular footy.

Nothing to with last night but I've hoped for years the authorities could find better ways of setting a game (but acknowledge it isn't easy). Italy failed to win their last two games (team vs team on pitch), but of course their name is in the trophy and in the history books and that's what counts.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Hmmm. That 5th one had every chance of being crucial. Poor management I think. Even if he said "I can do it boss" they should have picked someone more experienced - if we had one willing to take it.
		
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Southgate has been haunted by his penalty miss for years.
He has now put Saka in that position for a very long time.
So all this “ the boys are not tainted by history” has now gone.
The senior players and manager have a lot to answer for imo.
Practice is just the same as golf, there is no pressure on you , but doing it down the stretch or in Wembley are two totally different things imo.


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## larmen (Jul 12, 2021)

Whereditgo said:



			for Southgate to change something, but imo he is a defender and reverts to type
		
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That’s interesting. Has there ever been a study on what players bake the best managers? I don’t remember many strikers and especially goalies, but there aren’t that many keepers in the 1st place.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

IainP said:



			Being serious for a moment, the stat I expect GS will be focusing on is England went through the whole tournament without losing to any team in regular footy.

Nothing to with last night but I've hoped for years the authorities could find better ways of setting a game (but acknowledge it isn't easy). Italy failed to win their last two games (team vs team on pitch), but of course their name is in the trophy and in the history books and that's what counts.
		
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Only let in 2 goals both from set pieces lol small victories


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Being last man doesn’t make it a red card.
		
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Last man, totally professional foul makes it red imo .
But in the refs not?


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## larmen (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The assault on Saka bringing him down by the scruff of his neck.
So 19 yr old lightning fast verses a 35 yr old CB level with him at best.
I would not give him any chance of catching him at all, so 
Chealini is the last man imo.
That’s red. Ref bottled it.
		
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Tactical shirt pull near the middle line. Yellow card all day long. 1st minute or last minute. 
If this would be the other way Sheerer would call it clever and did what needs to be done.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

larmen said:



			That’s interesting. Has there ever been a study on what players bake the best managers? I don’t remember many strikers and especially goalies, but there aren’t that many keepers in the 1st place.
		
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Fergie was a striker , Bobby Robson was aswell 

So was Kenny dalgish and brain Clough

Not forgetting Johan Cruyff


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Last man, totally professional foul makes it red imo .
But in the refs not?
		
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Has to prevent a clear goal scoring opportunity.. ie clean through not heading down the wing (ball going out anyways?) More likely to be sent off for the force of the pull round the neck


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## GreiginFife (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Last man, totally professional foul makes it red imo .
But in the refs not?
		
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"Professional" fouls don't equal red cards (otherwise there'd be about 7 v 7 average in PL games by the end).  Last man really doesn't mean anything, the law of the game is centred around denying a clear goal scoring opportunity (or a caution for preventing a promising attack).


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jul 12, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Lampard?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
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Why not?

He's Englands best midfielder in the last few decades, a winner and I can't think of anyone better at the moment.

I don't want another Johnny foreigner manager. We've been there and done that.


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## Dando (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Last man, totally professional foul makes it red imo .
But in the refs not?
		
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It’s not a red card.

Last man is irrelevant as it’s wasn’t a clear goal scoring opportunity


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Why not?

He's Englands best midfielder in the last few decades, a winner and I can't think of anyone better at the moment.

I don't want another Johnny foreigner manager. We've been there and done that.
		
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We would be falling into a trap of a good player a good manager doesn't always make.

He was given Chelsea job to keep the fans happy whilst they couldn't spend.. they wouldn't turn on a hero of theirs as quick .. he did well yes but his lack of experience showed second season 

Southgate did his time with the u21s and Saw a lot of these players through there .. they are a close unit because of him and his methods 

Change him when it looks like we can progress no more 

A semi and a final in 3 years? More success than any other England manager of past 2 decades no?


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## sweaty sock (Jul 12, 2021)

IainP said:



			Being serious for a moment, the stat I expect GS will be focusing on is England went through the whole tournament without losing to any team in regular footy.

Nothing to with last night but I've hoped for years the authorities could find better ways of setting a game (but acknowledge it isn't easy). Italy failed to win their last two games (team vs team on pitch), but of course their name is in the trophy and in the history books and that's what counts.
		
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They should take the penalties before extra time.  Have the tie break decided before the 30mins.  That way one team has no option but to throw caution to the wind in extra time.  Sure it  could be that after winning the tie break one team could play for the draw, but I'd argue neither England nor Italy had any intention of taking any risks in the extra 30mins...


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

larmen said:



			Tactical shirt pull near the middle line. Yellow card all day long. 1st minute or last minute.
If this would be the other way Sheerer would call it clever and did what needs to be done.
		
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So an international football player through on goal not being caught by an elderly defender is not a clear goal scoring opportunity?
I think it is and that’s red no matter where he is on the pitch.


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## larmen (Jul 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			More likely to be sent off for the force of the pull round the neck
		
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The force of holding is the same most of the time.

If I walk into a wall or run into a wall, the wall did exactly the same. It’s me who generates the force.

Holding a fast or slow player shouldn’t make a difference.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 12, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Why not?

He's Englands best midfielder in the last few decades, a winner and I can't think of anyone better at the moment.

I don't want another Johnny foreigner manager. We've been there and done that.
		
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Sorry mate but I’m with BiMguy,Lampard is a terrible shout. 
Southgate as done a good job & can see the squad being even better next year when some of the younger players get another year under their belt.


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## Whereditgo (Jul 12, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Why not?

He's Englands best midfielder in the last few decades, a winner and I can't think of anyone better at the moment.

I don't want another Johnny foreigner manager. We've been there and done that.
		
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Because he doesn't bring anything different to the party?


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

larmen said:



			The force of holding is the same most of the time.

If I walk into a wall or run into a wall, the wall did exactly the same. It’s me who generates the force.

Holding a fast or slow player shouldn’t make a difference.
		
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If I hold your shirt and your fast yes force is same 

But if I apply a forceful tug at the same time force is increased no?


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Has to prevent a clear goal scoring opportunity.. ie clean through not heading down the wing (ball going out anyways?) More likely to be sent off for the force of the pull round the neck
		
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Saka through 35 yr old isn’t catching him.
That’s a goal scoring opportunity and he kept the ball in that’s why he fouled him.
Your right seen lots of reds for excessive force this year.


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## IanM (Jul 12, 2021)

Not a red card as said above. 

Not sure how getting to a final and losing on pens is a failure.  I backed Italy at a decent price 2 weeks before the tournament...they were always going to be tough, they hadn't conceded or lost in ages.  (30 games undefeated) 

Southgate's pragmatism got us to a final....  A manager can learn and grow in a job too.  Decent job done.

Losing on pens in a final is a failure then?  I guess that's a relative appraisal!


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## GB72 (Jul 12, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Why not?

He's Englands best midfielder in the last few decades, a winner and I can't think of anyone better at the moment.

I don't want another Johnny foreigner manager. We've been there and done that.
		
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OK, if it was not for the fact that we are talking about the national team, the England job would actually seem perferct experience for a young, up and coming manager. You get expereince at the top level without the add on worries of budgets, recruitment or answering to a board. Your perfmance is not being jusdged every week and you do not face the sack every few monhts. If you want to experiment with tactics, you can change the whole squad if you want rather than having to retrain or recruit. For most qualifying campaigns (unless you are unlucky) you are only going to have a couple of games that are a significant challenge and so the only real stress if the performance in tournaments. May be one of the few ways of getting a decent job in the premier league without already being a big name coach.  Actually sounds the perfect job for someone at the beginning of their career or looking to wind down.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Why not?

He's Englands best midfielder in the last few decades, a winner and I can't think of anyone better at the moment.

I don't want another Johnny foreigner manager. We've been there and done that.
		
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Being a top player doesn’t automatically mean being a top manager

There have been many players in the past that have just not been able to replicate that into management.

Unfortunately England aren’t blessed with many top class successful managers - Lampard did well when expectations were low but then struggled - Tuchel came and got the same players winning the CL. You could say the same for Gerrard - he is winning things for Rangers but is it at the highest level ?

Southgate is a great man manager but his tactics mirror his way of thinking as a player and he displayed those same tactics at the only top level job he had with Middlesbrough

Imagine what the likes of Mancini , Enrique, Pep , Klopp would have done with that squad of England players

England achievements should be applauded - they reached the final , but to make that next step up to win they need a manager who can changes things

Edit - never a red card against Chellini - it’s a shirt pull on the halfway line , Jorginho tackle could have been


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

sweaty sock said:



			They should take the penalties before extra time.  Have the tie break decided before the 30mins.  That way one team has no option but to throw caution to the wind in extra time.  Sure it  could be that after winning the tie break one team could play for the draw, but I'd argue neither England nor Italy had any intention of taking any risks in the extra 30mins...
		
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Golden goal in extra time.
They have used it before and it was great.
At least it takes out the pens if someone scores.


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## larmen (Jul 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If I hold your shirt and your fast yes force is same 

But if I apply a forceful tug at the same time force is increased no?
		
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Yes it is. Can we say it’s a tug for certain? Can we measure how forceful a tug is? What force equals which colour card?

What I can’t find is a wide shot from the time. I would like to know if there were defenders in the middle or if he was through.
I don’t care if on paper there were slower or faster, just if a defender was closer to the goal or not.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Saka through 35 yr old isn’t catching him.
That’s a goal scoring opportunity and he kept the ball in that’s why he fouled him.
Your right seen lots of reds for excessive force this year.
		
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It's really not though I'm afraid .. there are other people who could get round and cover at that distance ..


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## garyinderry (Jul 12, 2021)

There was two covering defenders in the middle who could get back also if saka got on his bike. 
He just didnt get the opportunity.


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## larmen (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Golden goal in extra time.
They have used it before and it was great.
At least it takes out the pens if someone scores.
		
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Didn’t it make it worse because there is no margin for error?
I only remember a single goal in 96, Bierhof in the final. Everything else was don’t concede, can’t correct it anymore.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sorry mate but I’m with BiMguy,Lampard is a terrible shout.
Southgate as done a good job & can see the squad being even better next year when some of the younger players get another year under their belt.
		
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That might be true but they would just be a year older sitting on the bench when tactics dictate something needed changing.
But the same manager who won’t deploy them is the problem


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## Billysboots (Jul 12, 2021)

Having now slept on it, my overall feeling this morning is the same as that I harboured after the first couple of games - one of frustration.

The worst thing England could have done last night was score early, because it allowed Southgate to revert to type. From the early goal we needed to press for another, and we had the opportunity to do so, especially down Italy’s left flank where Trippier was finding acres of space. And for 20 minutes it looked like we might sneak another.

But we allowed Italy to settle into a rhythm. We dropped deeper and deeper, seemed content to concede possession and allowed Italy to see if they could unlock our defence. On the increasingly rare occasions we got forward there was no outlet, and we depressingly reverted to knocking the ball long to nobody in particular.

When half time arrived the BBC pundits all seemed to applaud the first half performance and I genuinely questioned whether they had been watching the same game. We urgently needed to up the tempo and I hoped that half time might give us the opportunity to regroup.

But the second half was largely even worse, punctuated by Pickford knocking it long, generally straight to Italy’s keeper, and England being wasteful in possession all over the pitch. Mount was anonymous, Sterling had absolutely no end product, and Southgate seemed unwilling or unable to change things, leaving his substitutions way, way too late and then, it seems, only with penalties in mind.

I was criticised early in this tournament for not understanding tournament football, and for calling for a more expansive and entertaining approach from England. Whilst I became increasingly encouraged by the results, if not the performances, I’m afraid I sit here this morning and feel that if England had adopted the expansive and entertaining approach I crave, and which our players are capable of, Italy were there for the taking.

A huge wasted opportunity in my view, and I suspect pundits in countries such as Germany and Spain must be asking themselves why we persevere with a manager so intent on wasting the talent he has available to him.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

garyinderry said:



			There was two covering defenders in the middle who could get back also if saka got on his bike.
He just didnt get the opportunity.
		
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Do you really think they were catching him.
?
I don’t !
That’s why it was a red imo.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 12, 2021)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Why not?

He's Englands best midfielder in the last few decades, a winner and I can't think of anyone better at the moment.

I don't want another Johnny foreigner manager. We've been there and done that.
		
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So we should sack the most successful England manager since 1966, who has just lead a team to the final of a major tournament. A tournament at which the team he was leading didn't lose a game. 

And make Lampard the manager?

I've seen some nonsense posted in this thread. Buy, that is top of the pile. 

How good he was as a player is completely irrelevant (Gerrard was better anyway). Lampard has absolutely no credibility as a manager. None.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

I don’t like Southgate, but you have to give him credit for what he’s achieved with England.

We actually can go to the next World Cup with a realistic chance to do well and compete against the best, all the top teams in the World would probably prefer to avoid us as well.

Yes his tactics are questionable to some of us at times, but you can’t deny what he’s done.

As for who would replace him or do a better job etc, we have no idea, these top Club managers get to buy their squad, very few develop youth players, they get lucky with one or two coming through, so to simply say they’d get more out of that squad, they may not even pick the same squad.

Let’s get behind him, accept not a great deal will change, but we will have a few more players pushing in to the squad and who knows who may drop out.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

larmen said:



			Didn’t it make it worse because there is no margin for error?
I only remember a single goal in 96, Bierhof in the final. Everything else was don’t concede, can’t correct it anymore.
		
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Trezegue in the World Cup wasn’t it as well??
That’s down to tactics. I am sure a forward thinking manager would try and win it.
But we would need one of them first.
I would rather lose trying to win the game than lose like that last night.
The Italian penalties were not that good ours were just worse.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Having now slept on it, my overall feeling this morning is the same as that I harboured after the first couple of games - one of frustration.

The worst thing England could have done last night was score early, because it allowed Southgate to revert to type. From the early goal we needed to press for another, and we had the opportunity to do so, especially down Italy’s left flank where Trippier was finding acres of space. And for 20 minutes it looked like we might sneak another.

But we allowed Italy to settle into a rhythm. We dropped deeper and deeper, seemed content to concede possession and allowed Italy to see if they could unlock our defence. On the increasingly rare occasions we got forward there was no outlet, and we depressingly reverted to knocking the ball long to nobody in particular.

When half time arrived the BBC pundits all seemed to applaud the first half performance and I genuinely questioned whether they had been watching the same game. We urgently needed to up the tempo and I hoped that half time might give us the opportunity to regroup.

But the second half was largely even worse, punctuated by Pickford knocking it long, generally straight to Italy’s keeper, and England being wasteful in possession all over the pitch. Mount was anonymous, Sterling had absolutely no end product, and Southgate seemed unwilling or unable to change things, leaving his substitutions way, way too late and then, it seems, only with penalties in mind.

I was criticised early in this tournament for not understanding tournament football, and for calling for a more expansive and entertaining approach from England. Whilst I became increasingly encouraged by the results, if not the performances, I’m afraid I sit here this morning and feel that if England had adopted the expansive and entertaining approach I crave, and which our players are capable of, Italy were there for the taking.

A huge wasted opportunity in my view, and I suspect pundits in countries such as Germany and Spain must be asking themselves why we persevere with a manager so intent on wasting the talent he has available to him.
		
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Totally agree with all this.
I would rather lose trying to win a game than lose like that.
I would also add Kane how bad does he have to be to be taken off ,
The two Italian CBs were pointed out as their weak link but they could have brought their deck chairs out second half.


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## Whereditgo (Jul 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t like Southgate, but you have to give him credit for what he’s achieved with England.

We actually can go to the next World Cup with a realistic chance to do well and compete against the best, all the top teams in the World would probably prefer to avoid us as well.

Yes his tactics are questionable to some of us at times, but you can’t deny what he’s done.

As for who would replace him or do a better job etc, we have no idea, these top Club managers get to buy their squad, very few develop youth players, they get lucky with one or two coming through, so to simply say they’d get more out of that squad, they may not even pick the same squad.

Let’s get behind him, accept not a great deal will change, but we will have a few more players pushing in to the squad and who knows who may drop out.
		
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For all my criticisms of Southgates tactical failings, I don't think he should be replaced. He does have a lot of good qualities, his man management skills with a young inexperienced squad, his dealings with the media etc. He needs to strengthen his backroom staff though, have someone in there who is more tactically savvy.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			So we should sack the most successful England manager since 1966, who has just lead a team to the final of a major tournament. A tournament at which the team he was leading didn't lose a game.

And make Lampard the manager?

I've seen some nonsense posted in this thread. Buy, that is top of the pile.

How good he was as a player is completely irrelevant (Gerrard was better anyway). Lampard has absolutely no credibility as a manager. None.
		
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Gerrard it is then 
I think he’s the next Liverpool manager.

Thing is who replaces Southgate 
And is actually not winning anything regarded as success .? It’s progress maybe!


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## harpo_72 (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The assault on Saka bringing him down by the scruff of his neck.
So 19 yr old lightning fast verses a 35 yr old CB level with him at best.
I would not give him any chance of catching him at all, so
Chealini is the last man imo.
That’s red. Ref bottled it.
		
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Exactly that… different game from that point on and not enough is being made of it !! We have been told we are are bunch of cheats which is a disgrace so I would like to highlight 1 yellow last night for England and at least 5 for Italy , 2 of which should have been straight reds .. there has been a sign of weakness by not making these sendings off. All it has done is promoted cynical football and Italian side were good enough not to conduct themselves in this manner, but the ref let them and he should be asked to justify his decision.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

Whereditgo said:



			For all my criticisms of Southgates tactical failings, I don't think he should be replaced. He does have a lot of good qualities, his man management skills with a young inexperienced squad, his dealings with the media etc. *He needs to strengthen his backroom staff though, have someone in there who is more tactically savvy.*

Click to expand...

Or someone who will “bully” him in to making changes.


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## Mudball (Jul 12, 2021)

Unpopular opinion... 

As much as i wanted it to come home last night..  having seen the players being abused, opposition national anthem booed and supporters being kicked.... i dont think we deserve any silverware of any form.  While the team deserves WC 2022, I dont think this country does.

... And for those who say it is the actions of the few, well the inactions of the many are not helping it...   The three lions deserve better


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

Have to say, although a lot of “pulling & pushing” happens at corners, I’m still surprised this was missed by Linesman and VAR from Walkers throw in.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 12, 2021)

Southgate has to take some blame for being so negative. A back 5 and 2 holding midfielders is just inviting the other team to attack. England caught Italy cold, and a 2nd goal would have killed them off. Instead they got deeper and deeper. 

The obvious sub for me was Grealish for Rice. This would have got England up the park. Instead, bringing on Henderson was basically a like for like change, when it was obvious the system wasn't working.

The match stats are pretty damning, Italy 65% possession, 19 shots vs England's 6, 6 shots on target vs 2 for England.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

larmen said:



			Yes it is. Can we say it’s a tug for certain? Can we measure how forceful a tug is? What force equals which colour card?

What I can’t find is a wide shot from the time. I would like to know if there were defenders in the middle or if he was through.
I don’t care if on paper there were slower or faster, just if a defender was closer to the goal or not.
		
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Italy had pushed their line onto the halfway line.
Saka was past all the defenders as I remember it.
And I genuinely don’t think they were catching him, as they all stopped because they thought it was going out for a throw in.
That is the only reason he brought him down he knew he was away, and they were not catching him.
Was VAR used for anything last night ?
I can’t remember it being mentioned once.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Or someone who will “bully” him in to making changes.

Click to expand...

Isn’t that someone to do his job for him?


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## RichA (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Italy had pushed their line onto the halfway line.
Saka was past all the defenders as I remember it.
And I genuinely don’t think they were catching him, as they all stopped because they thought it was going out for a throw in.
That is the only reason he brought him down he knew he was away, and they were not catching him.
Was VAR used for anything last night ?
I can’t remember it being mentioned once.
		
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Regardless of whether Chiellini was the last man or it was a clear goal scoring opportunity, he did something in a football match that is banned in American Football and rugby because it's so likely to cause injury. Violent conduct, red card. 
Not that it matters now or would realistically have changed the outcome.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Unpopular opinion...

As much as i wanted it to come home last night..  having seen the players being abused, opposition national anthem booed and supporters being kicked.... i dont think we deserve any silverware of any form.  While the team deserves WC 2022, I dont think this country does.

... And for those who say it is the actions of the few, well the inactions of the many are not helping it...   The three lions deserve better
		
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Your argument could of been used for the last 30yrs though, the trouble comes from the Club Fan Bases and the failure of authorities to take strong enough action with criminal offences! The Police are seriously undermanned, there’s a lack of respect and Social Conscience in the Country and the Courts need to hammer offenders.

We knew this behaviour would happen and nothing was done to prevent it, why we keep thinking it’ll stop whilst doing nothing is beyond me!

Also have a look on here and the attitude from forum members to Footballers and others continuing to “take the knee” 

Society needs “raking out”


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## Piece (Jul 12, 2021)

Let's put this into perspective.

This England team is world away from what I've seen over the last 30 years or so. All I've seen previously is an inability to hold on to the ball, lump aimless balls up front to big striker. Rinse, repeat. And then we get knocked out early in the tournament. Who remembers that Iceland performance? The names we've had playing for England over the years. Lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Terry, etc.; the so-called Golden Generation that did sweet FA. Forward to now, we are a team that can pass the ball around and starting to show that we can play in tight spaces and handle high pressure. It's not there yet at the Italian level, but not far off.

We are a growing and evolving team. The last two tournaments have been very successful and this team is better than the Russia 2018 team. Comparing Italy and England, this Italian team is at its peak where as we are a bit behind, but improving. They show excellent technical ability and great fluidity and mobility around the park. Remember, Italy didn't even qualify for the last World Cup and since then they have been immense. We should afford Gareth the time to continually improve us in time for the Qatar World Cup; and this is where Gareth is at a crossroads right now. To improve, he has to alter his tactics so that we are more dynamic in the centre of the park, utilising the Fodens and Grealishs of this world. italy showed what is needed. Get the ball players playing football in the centre of the park., with pace, mobility and technical ability. It's this alteration that will mean we could peak in time for the World Cup. If Gareth chooses the same current tactical path, we won't do well in Qatar, simple as that.

Hopefully Gareth will also learn to be more proactive rather than reactive. At half-term, Klinsmann (World and Euros winner so knows what it takes to win) was asked something like, "What do England need to do in the second half?". His response was, "Don't sit back and invite pressure, continue what you are doing and look for the second goal". Unfortunately we did the former. Mancini altered tactics and Gareth took too long to react to them.

It can be so easy to over criticise. Let's not forget, we didn't lose a game and lost the final on a lottery. Home advantage helped, as it did for Italy in the group stages. I'm as positive as I have been for a long time with this team and will continue to back Gareth as long as alters his style in preparation for the next World Cup.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 12, 2021)

Strangely I cannot get the video of the Saka offence … just pictures.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Southgate has to take some blame for being so negative. A back 5 and 2 holding midfielders is just inviting the other team to attack. England caught Italy cold, and a 2nd goal would have killed them off. Instead they got deeper and deeper.

The obvious sub for me was Grealish for Rice. This would have got England up the park. Instead, bringing on Henderson was basically a like for like change, when it was obvious the system wasn't working.

The match stats are pretty damning, Italy 65% possession, 19 shots vs England's 6, 6 shots on target vs 2 for England.
		
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Rice was having a good game, winning the majority of his battles and taking the ball into their half (first half) at speed 

Mount needed hooking for grealish but Henderson for rice made sense to freshen up but not change tactics 

It's not southgates fault that Henderson had a poor game when he came on, just didn't seem to get in the swing of things (bar one great pass)

Grealish was too late to the party should have been 60 mins in


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

RichA said:



			Regardless of whether Chiellini was the last man or it was a clear goal scoring opportunity, he did something in a football match that is banned in American Football and rugby because it's so likely to cause injury. Violent conduct, red card.
Not that it matters now or would realistically have changed the outcome.
		
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You think them going to ten men would not change the outcome?
That’s what a cautious manager waits for .
A reason to change because they are weakened probably by sacrificing a forward to shore up the defence.


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 12, 2021)

Is there not a case to be made, especially with 5 subs available, to say to Sterling, Mount & Saka (or whoever the three are that are starting), "Don't worry about lasting 90 minutes. Go out there and run yourself into the ground for 60 or 70 minutes and put the opposition under pressure. If you're knackered after an hour we've got Sancho, Grealish, Foden, Rashford etc to come off the bench to replace you".


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

Piece said:



			Let's put this into perspective.

This England team is world away from what I've seen over the last 30 years or so. All I've seen previously is an inability to hold on to the ball, lump aimless balls up front to big striker. Rinse, repeat. And then we get knocked out early in the tournament. Who remembers that Iceland performance? The names we've had playing for England over the years. Lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Terry, etc.; the so-called Golden Generation that did sweet FA. Forward to now, we are a team that can pass the ball around and starting to show that we can play in tight spaces and handle high pressure. It's not there yet at the Italian level, but not far off.

We are a growing and evolving team. The last two tournaments have been very successful and this team is better than the Russia 2018 team. Comparing the Italy and England, this Italian team is at its peak where as we are a bit behind, but improving. They show excellent technical ability and great fluidity and mobility around the park. Remember, Italy didn't even qualify for the last World Cup and since then they have been immense. We should afford Gareth the time to continually improving us in time for the Qatar World Cup; and this is where Gareth is at a crossroads right now. To improve, he has to alter his tactics so that we are more dynamic in the centre of the park, utilising the Fodens and Grealishs of this world. italy showed what is needed. Get the ball players playing football in the centre of the park., with pace, mobility and technical ability. It's this alteration that will mean we could peak in time for the World Cup. If Gareth chooses the same current tactical path, we won't do well in Qatar, simple as that.

Hopefully Gareth will also learn to be more proactive rather than reactive. At half-term, Klinsmann (World and Euros winner so knows what it takes to win) was asked something like, "What do England need to do in the second half?". His response was, "Don't sit back and invite pressure, continue what you are doing and look for the second goal". Unfortunately we did the former. Mancini altered tactics and Gareth took too long to react to them.

It can be so easy to over criticise. Let's not forget, we didn't lose a game and lost the final on a lottery. Home advantage helped, as it did for Italy in the group stages. I'm as positive as I have been for a long time with this team and will continue to back Gareth as long as alters his style in preparation for the next World Cup.
		
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That’s a fair assessment.
But the big question for me is CAN he change his style.?
He is where he is because he’s cautious I don’t think he can.
He’s got the best bench in the tournament it’s a pity he didn’t use it properly.


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## Dando (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do you really think they were catching him.
?
I don’t !
That’s why it was a red imo.
		
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We’ll never know but it still wasn’t a red


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is there not a case to be made, especially with 5 subs available, to say to Sterling, Mount & Saka (or whoever the three are that are starting), "Don't worry about lasting 90 minutes. Go out there and run yourself into the ground for 60 or 70 minutes and put the opposition under pressure. If you're knackered after an hour we've got Sancho, Grealish, Foden, Rashford etc to come off the bench to replace you".
		
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The two old guys played 120 mins at the back because we didn’t do exactly that.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

Dando said:



			We’ll never know but it still wasn’t a red
		
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I disagree


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## Dando (Jul 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Have to say, although a lot of “pulling & pushing” happens at corners, I’m still surprised this was missed by Linesman and VAR from Walkers throw in.
View attachment 37534

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people will be calling for a red card for that


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I disagree 

Click to expand...

The following must be considered:
distance between the offence and the goal
general direction of the play
likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
location and number of defenders

Half way line going towards corner is the key


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## Kellfire (Jul 12, 2021)

I see Savills are looking for a new commercial manager today after their previous one decided to voice his opinion on the missed penalties.


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## RichA (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You think them going to ten men would not change the outcome?
That’s what a cautious manager waits for .
A reason to change because they are weakened probably by sacrificing a forward to shore up the defence.
		
Click to expand...

I think that in various parallel universes, where the Italians were down to 10, 9 or 8 men, we still wouldn't get close to scoring an extra time winner as long as we kept trying to run through the middle of their defence. If we'd used any of our multitude of wingers and wingbacks properly and whipped the occasional cross to the far or near post, we might not have needed extra time.


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## sweaty sock (Jul 12, 2021)

I have to say Southgate needs to go.  

To think hes had all his life in football, nearly 20 years at the top level, has played for his country 57 times, scoring twice, and has now had 15 years of management experience.  All at the top national or international level.  In addition hes worked with this very group of players from the very start of their careers - may infact be an influence in their personal success.

Even with all that he still isnt as tactically nuanced or as aware of his players abilities, as a group of average golfers with football as a second sport, no playing or managing experience, nor a single minute working with any of the team.

If thats not damning then I dont know what is.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 12, 2021)

I don’t think it was a defensive set up it is a misnomer to think we had 5 at the back. We played 3 at the back and 2 wing backs who were doing the business. Italy reacted by putting on wider attacking players to impact are narrow 3 man defence and draw trippier and shaw back .. it worked they also increased their offensive midfield to counter the weakened central strike force they had.
Now there are options to deal with that and that is to move to a 4 in defence and put a cdm in place and pull Sterling wider and mount wider ( although I think central is more his position-I could be wrong because I don’t support a football team .. watching is for those who can’t was my rule, now I can’t so I have to watch). But he had players on the pitch that he could have just shuffled he could have pulled Shaw up and pushed Sterling to the other wing and kept Mount central . Rice and Phillips stay as cdms and mount links them to Kane Sterling and shaw … and then you see if that counters the Italian progress .. which it will and then they look to break you down again.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 12, 2021)

Fine words from Southgate in his press conference just done.  Admitting and taking full responsibility for mistakes made - including taking responsibility for those things in practice completely out of his control such as the penalty misses - because as manager he accepts the plaudits when the team plays well and wins, so must he take personal responsibility for when things do not turn out as hoped.  That is leadership - good on you Gareth Southgate - a decent and honourable Englishman.

I can recognise Southgate as an Englishman all English can be very proud of - so don‘t pick holes in every decision he made - you can trust that he will do that himself - and he will learn from them and try very hard to not repeat the same mistakes.

Now - Steve Clarke and Scotland…Jason Kerr 😍 please 🙄


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I disagree 

Click to expand...

Someone pulling a players shirt on the halfway line is not a red card - never has been and never will be. 


Piece said:



			Let's put this into perspective.

This England team is world away from what I've seen over the last 30 years or so. All I've seen previously is an inability to hold on to the ball, lump aimless balls up front to big striker. Rinse, repeat. And then we get knocked out early in the tournament. Who remembers that Iceland performance? The names we've had playing for England over the years. Lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Terry, etc.; the so-called Golden Generation that did sweet FA. Forward to now, we are a team that can pass the ball around and starting to show that we can play in tight spaces and handle high pressure. It's not there yet at the Italian level, but not far off.

We are a growing and evolving team. The last two tournaments have been very successful and this team is better than the Russia 2018 team. Comparing Italy and England, this Italian team is at its peak where as we are a bit behind, but improving. They show excellent technical ability and great fluidity and mobility around the park. Remember, Italy didn't even qualify for the last World Cup and since then they have been immense. We should afford Gareth the time to continually improve us in time for the Qatar World Cup; and this is where Gareth is at a crossroads right now. To improve, he has to alter his tactics so that we are more dynamic in the centre of the park, utilising the Fodens and Grealishs of this world. italy showed what is needed. Get the ball players playing football in the centre of the park., with pace, mobility and technical ability. It's this alteration that will mean we could peak in time for the World Cup. If Gareth chooses the same current tactical path, we won't do well in Qatar, simple as that.

Hopefully Gareth will also learn to be more proactive rather than reactive. At half-term, Klinsmann (World and Euros winner so knows what it takes to win) was asked something like, "What do England need to do in the second half?". His response was, "Don't sit back and invite pressure, continue what you are doing and look for the second goal". Unfortunately we did the former. Mancini altered tactics and Gareth took too long to react to them.

It can be so easy to over criticise. Let's not forget, we didn't lose a game and lost the final on a lottery. Home advantage helped, as it did for Italy in the group stages. I'm as positive as I have been for a long time with this team and will continue to back Gareth as long as alters his style in preparation for the next World Cup.
		
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The level the team have reached is a very good achievement but i also think there does need to ensure it doesnt mask some issues 

England have all the ability in the world , the squad is on par with the best teams in the world -

They reached the Semi final - beating teams they should beat which in itself was an improvement on the previous tournaments - they faced two strong sides Belguim and Croatia and lost to both of them 

In the Euros - they again beat the teams they should have beaten - faced a tricky game against Scotland where they played within themselves , when they faced stronger team in Germany they found an answer even if Germany were way off the pace , and they managed to get past some tricky games against Denmark- but when they faced the on form strong side they seemed to be caught in the headlights - especially after half time 

Onto the next World Cup the question will be if they learn from that , if Southgate can adapt his thinking and tactics to find a way to get past the likes of Italy , France , Argentina Brazil etc then England will have a brilliant chance to win the WC

The prob is I’m not sure of Southgate has that ability - harsh on a manager who has done so well


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## Piece (Jul 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I see Savills are looking for a new commercial manager today after their previous one decided to voice his opinion on the missed penalties.
		
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Yeah, saw that. No words really.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

Dando said:



			people will be calling for a red card for that
		
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And they’d be just as wrong.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 12, 2021)

sweaty sock said:



			I have to say Southgate needs to go. 

To think hes had all his life in football, nearly 20 years at the top level, has played for his country 57 times, scoring twice, and has now had 15 years of management experience.  All at the top national or international level.  In addition hes worked with this very group of players from the very start of their careers - may infact be an influence in their personal success.

Even with all that he still isnt as tactically nuanced or as aware of his players abilities, as a group of average golfers with football as a second sport, no playing or managing experience, nor a single minute working with any of the team.

If thats not damning then I dont know what is.
		
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Maybe send The FA your CV?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That might be true but they would just be a year older sitting on the bench when tactics dictate something needed changing.
But the same manager who won’t deploy them is the problem
		
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Yeah maybe.


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## larmen (Jul 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I see Savills are looking for a new commercial manager today after their previous one decided to voice his opinion on the missed penalties.
		
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There is going to be an investigation, and Savills have already said so.

What I don’t get is that ‘everyone’ is now tweeting Savills, and a lot of them demanding he is being fired already.
There is going to be a process that needs to be followed, let them do it. The person doing the investigation isn’t done with it at 9 am on the Monday.


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## sweaty sock (Jul 12, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Maybe send The FA your CV?
		
Click to expand...

Im clearly well behind most of the 'supporters' in here, wouldnt get a look in.  

Surely a final, and a tournament where you are unbeaten in any 90 minutes, with a side full of youngsters is a glorious position to be in?  But no, sack the hopeless manager who got us here...


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## Dando (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I disagree 

Click to expand...

The only person who’s opinion counts said it wasn’t a red


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## Billysboots (Jul 12, 2021)

sweaty sock said:



			I have to say Southgate needs to go.  

To think hes had all his life in football, nearly 20 years at the top level, has played for his country 57 times, scoring twice, and has now had 15 years of management experience.  All at the top national or international level.  In addition hes worked with this very group of players from the very start of their careers - may infact be an influence in their personal success.

Even with all that he still isnt as tactically nuanced or as aware of his players abilities, as a group of average golfers with football as a second sport, no playing or managing experience, nor a single minute working with any of the team.

If thats not damning then I dont know what is.
		
Click to expand...

If we’re not allowed an opinion any more this forum might as well shut down.


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## hovis (Jul 12, 2021)

Can't we just accept the loss with dignity?  You can show screenshots and go over dodgy decisions all day.  England had a fair few go for them.  Truth is we looked great for the first 15 minutes then got played off the pitch.  Best side definitely won


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## sweaty sock (Jul 12, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			If we’re not allowed an opinion any more this forum might as well shut down.
		
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Good point, well made....


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## Bdill93 (Jul 12, 2021)

Still absolutely gutted


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## pokerjoke (Jul 12, 2021)

After yesterday’s very disappointing loss and the dust has now settled it’s time to reflect on what was in the grand scheme of things a very positive tournament.
A lot of doubt pre- tournament about some selections but overall some great individual performances.
Pickford for me was outstanding.
Maguire and Stones very good along with Mings in his games.
Walker and Shaw both had outstanding tournaments.
Rice and Phillips were everywhere Phillips especially surprised me.
Sterling kept us in the tournament and imo our most dangerous forward but yesterday was played on the right or down the middle, not left where imo he’s most effective.
Kane scored 3 but overall was very disappointing and yesterday did nothing for the last hour.
Saka had one storming game and the others had bit parts.
Trippier was solid enough if not dynamic but is very reliable.

Southgate and his team overall done well and certainly got them all in it together.
I hope he learns from his mistakes if he stays on because he made a lot.
He certainly has favourites but he needs to have faith in other squad members if his favourites don’t perform.
Keeping Kane on last night was criminal.
Bringing Jack on last night was right but I bet his last words to him were “ don’t get too far forward defend first”.
As others said he should have went for it and if we lost then so be it,I believe the country would have been happy with that.
I think he should stay it’s pointless changing management now, he’s got a great squad of players,but he needs to pick players he’s willing to play and with trust.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

hovis said:



			Can't we just accept the loss with dignity?  You can show screenshots and go over dodgy decisions all day.  England had a fair few go for them.  Truth is we looked great for the first 15 minutes then got played off the pitch.  Best side definitely won
		
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Forum:
a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 12, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Southgate has to take some blame for being so negative. A back 5 and 2 holding midfielders is just inviting the other team to attack. England caught Italy cold, and a 2nd goal would have killed them off. Instead they got deeper and deeper.

The obvious sub for me was Grealish for Rice. This would have got England up the park. Instead, bringing on Henderson was basically a like for like change, when it was obvious the system wasn't working.

The match stats are pretty damning, Italy 65% possession, 19 shots vs England's 6, 6 shots on target vs 2 for England.
		
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It should have been, but there was one difference that was key for me. Jordan didnt do anything when he come on, but he was substituted for the wrong player and position.

We needed someone to take it off the keeper, centre halves or full backs to get us playing football again instead of knocking it long. IMO he should have taken Phillips off and put Jordan at the base of a diamond where he has played many times before, with Rice as the more advanced midfielder (and kept on). Instead he put Jordan too far forward, Phillips wasnt doing the job as well as he had done in the past, and should have been him substituted. 

I'd have also taken Mount off after 60 minutes as ineffectual and put Sancho on, DCL in extra time. 30 minutes on, kane and Sterling stopped doing what was causing Italy trouble - making 20 yard runs back towards their own goal, creating an overload and attacking the space and moving it quickly to the wing backs. Either that or Mancini made a tactical change that I didnt see, but once that stopped working we were toast. 

Overall, Pickford, Shaw, Rice and Sterling had a great tournament, one from each department, the rest in fits and starts although Stones and Maguire were a great partnership.


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## Hobbit (Jul 12, 2021)

England pretty much bossed the first 25 mins but didn’t get the second goal. They were ‘saved’ by the half time whistle. 15 mins to reflect and change things. That didn’t happen, and Italy looked like the only team that would score - and did. England improved and it was 50-50 going up to full time, and maybe 60-40 to England through extra time.

The 2 red cards that didn’t happen; the studs over the ball into Grealish’s knee. Maybe not intentional but reckless. Grealish was lucky he could walk after it. A red for me.

The shirt pull; red for a shirt pull? No….. but…. A handful of the back or sleeve is one thing but a handful of collar, garrotting Saka, was very dangerous. Never mind last man or professional foul, I felt it was the garrotting part that made it dangerous, and a red.

A young kid taking the last penalty In a major final. Serious error of judgement. But only 3-2 on penalties - neither team were great, although Pickford’s last save was excellent.


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## hovis (Jul 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Forum:
a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
		
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And!!!! I'm exchanging and view and idea.  Accept the loss and move on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

hovis said:



			And!!!! I'm exchanging and view and idea.  Accept the loss and move on.
		
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Loss completely accepted beaten by the better team.

Still allowed to debate and discuss though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2021)

Just read that one of those identified abusing Saka on Instagram is apparently a 15yr old who claims to be on Everton’s books as an U16 player.

If true I hope the Club do the right thing and his career is ended today.


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## Piece (Jul 12, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Still absolutely gutted
		
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My 11yr old last night. . Floods of tears.


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## RichA (Jul 12, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Pickford’s last save was excellent.
		
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Hopefully he heard 30 million English people shouting, "WAIT!!!" as Jorghino was stuttering up to the ball.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The two old guys played 120 mins at the back because we didn’t do exactly that.
		
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Vert true.....England spent two thirds of the game chasing the ball.......the 'old boys' strolled through the game.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

Taking nothing but positives from last night 

Such a young team, realistically next 2 world cups and the next euros the spine will still be in their prime with the youngsters moving up 

Only walker and Henderson (of those who came on often) are older guard who you have Bellingham and Trent waiting 

The futures bright


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## RichA (Jul 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Just read that one of those identified abusing Saka on Instagram is apparently a 15yr old who claims to be on Everton’s books as an U16 player.

If true I hope the Club do the right thing and his career is ended today.
		
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Sacking the 15 year old won't make him a better person, but he'll hopefully be punished and educated for his stupidity.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 12, 2021)

Piece said:



			My 11yr old last night. . Floods of tears. 

Click to expand...

My 11 yo was absolutely gutted too. It reminded me of how I felt after Italia90. 

My lads team lost a semi final earlier this season on pens. In exactly the same way England did last night. He said he felt sorry for the England players as he knew how bad they would feel.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 12, 2021)

I'm not a great follower of Football but always follow the national side.  From my limited knowledge of the game the England team in this comp have been the best I can remember since the 1960s. Southgate seems a real genuine person and deserves credit for putting together a side that have demonstrated some impressive football.

On another point, I was disappointed the way most of the England players took off their medals straight after being presented.  I understand they were disappointed but I thought it was rather childish.


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## stefanovic (Jul 12, 2021)

Couple of things.

*Political correctness.*
Ever since Hoddle insulted disabled people by accusing them of bad karma it seems that this is the #1 criterion for an England manager.

*Intelligence.*
Southgate twisting and turning or the intense gaze of Mancini?
A clever manager begs a smart team.
Example: Southgate bringing on 2 subs at the end for penalties.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 12, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			I'm not a great follower of Football but always follow the national side.  From my limited knowledge of the game the England team in this comp have been the best I can remember since the 1960s. Southgate seems a real genuine person and deserves credit for putting together a side that have demonstrated some impressive football.

On another point, I was disappointed the way most of the England players took off their medals straight after being presented.  I understand they were disappointed but I thought it was rather childish.
		
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On your last point. Almost every player that gets a second place medal in every final does exactly the same. I've seen many not even allow it to be put over their head.


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## RichA (Jul 12, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			On your last point. Almost every player that gets a second place medal in every final does exactly the same. I've seen many not even allow it to be put over their head.
		
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I commented on that last night. As a Forest and England supporter, it wasn't something I'd witnessed before.


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2021)

We were in dream land after the early goal. It did feel kind of _too _early though. You always felt we were going to pushed further and further back through the game and it would be tough to hold on. Their goal was scrappy when it came though. I felt that if it went to extra time we'd be favourites because we had the stronger attacking options on our bench. But they weren't really utilised? Southgate didn't get much wrong in the tournament, but bringing on two players just to take a penalty and them both missing is a huge one. Just because they scored penalties in training doesn't mean they can come into a tournament final cold, have one or two touches and then bang one in with the whole world watching. Ridiculous to expect anyone to do that. Perhaps even more ridiculous is putting a 19-year-old who's just broken into the side on the 5th penalty! What an outrageous amount pressure to expect him to deal with. I can't believe someone with experience wasn't on the final penalty. For Southgate especially, winning on penalties would have been some redemption, but he got it totally wrong. 

Nevertheless, Southgate deserves to lead these boys to the World Cup. I think it's clear that the team enjoys playing for him, and they're only going to improve now, with young players like Grealish, Foden, Bellingham becoming more instrumental I would expect. And as the World Cup is only about 16 months away I think it would be better for cohesion to keep the same boss involved anyway. It's not really enough time to rebuild under a different manager.


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## Hobbit (Jul 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			We were in dream land after the early goal. It did feel kind of _too _early though. You always felt we were going to pushed further and further back through the game and it would be tough to hold on. Their goal was scrappy when it came though. I felt that if it went to extra time we'd be favourites because we had the stronger attacking options on our bench. But they weren't really utilised? Southgate didn't get much wrong in the tournament, but bringing on two players just to take a penalty and them both missing is a huge one. Just because they scored penalties in training doesn't mean they can come into a tournament final cold, have one or two touches and then bang one in with the whole world watching. Ridiculous to expect anyone to do that. Perhaps even more ridiculous is putting a 19-year-old who's just broken into the side on the 5th penalty! What an outrageous amount pressure to expect him to deal with. I can't believe someone with experience wasn't on the final penalty. For Southgate especially, winning on penalties would have been some redemption, but he got it totally wrong.

Nevertheless, Southgate deserves to lead these boys to the World Cup. I think it's clear that the team enjoys playing for him, and they're only going to improve now, with young players like Grealish, Foden, Bellingham becoming more instrumental I would expect. And as the World Cup is only about 16 months away I think it would be better for cohesion to keep the same boss involved anyway. It's not really enough time to rebuild under a different manager.
		
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In the last 2 major finals Southgate has got England to the semi and final. Don’t totally agree with some of the (over) cautious tactics but the results clearly suggest Southgate is the man for the job.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ngland-fans-euro-2020-final-b1882271.html?amp

More and more incidents of the abuse on social media , plus now some people saying Italian restaurants being vandalised 

Why ? What is going through their heads


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

Dando said:



			The only person who’s opinion counts said it wasn’t a red
		
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Yes just seen it again and they were a bit deeper than I thought. But still in the centre circle .!
But would still put my money on Saka to outrun them.
The force of the shirt pull though if Heineken did shirt pulls.
I still think it’s red ,he could have seriously hurt him.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Jul 12, 2021)

I'm not someone who watches football very often but have managed to see England's various failures over the years.

We seem unable to handle the pressure of penalty shootouts judging on the number we have lost.

Can't see England winning anything unless they find a way to get through a penalty shootout or avoid one altogether.

Thought that the two subs were set up to fail and the youngster was just out of his depth in that situation.

Five senior players left out there should have stood up and took responsibility if we were going to sneak it.

Saddens me to hear the abuse some are taking over a game of football. What is wrong with these people?


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## Hobbit (Jul 12, 2021)

Red for me


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## RichA (Jul 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ngland-fans-euro-2020-final-b1882271.html?amp

More and more incidents of the abuse on social media , plus now some people saying Italian restaurants being vandalised 

Why ? What is going through their heads
		
Click to expand...

A small minority of muppets in any society go through life looking for excuses to wreak chaos and dish out abuse. When 30 million England "supporters" have just seen their team lose, the small minority constitutes quite a large number of muppets spread across a large area.

By next weekend the excuse will be Love Island, face masks on trains or just their inability to metabolise alcohol peacefully.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)




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## SocketRocket (Jul 12, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			On your last point. Almost every player that gets a second place medal in every final does exactly the same. I've seen many not even allow it to be put over their head.
		
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Still makes them look like poor losers.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 12, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			In the last 2 major finals Southgate has got England to the semi and final. Don’t totally agree with some of the (over) cautious tactics but the results clearly suggest Southgate is the man for the job.
		
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Absolutely, he needs to stay and keep up the good work. He is the most successful manager in 55 years!


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## harpo_72 (Jul 12, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Red for me

View attachment 37541

Click to expand...

All day long, you cannot brush that off as a shirt tug, that is a physical assault and in no way part of the game… if he wanted Saka’s shirt he should have waited for the game to finish and for him to get his head out of it… this epitomises unacceptable football behaviours and the ref has only re-enforced them being acceptable.
They are trying to let the skilful players play, Zlatan said he pulled him down like a child, and I can imagine Zlatan would have run off with Chiellini’s arm still attached to his shirt … but that is not football, rugby doesn’t allow it either …


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2021)

RE. the Saka incident my son calls those orange card moments. Worse than a yellow, not quite a red. It is what sin bins were designed for but football doesn't seem keen on them. 10 minutes or more with your team down a player might make players think about these things.


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## Hobbit (Jul 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			RE. the Saka incident my son calls those orange card moments. Worse than a yellow, not quite a red. It is what sin bins were designed for but football doesn't seem keen on them. 10 minutes or more with your team down a player might make players think about these things.
		
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Unfortunately orange cards don’t exist yet…hope it does happen though. In rugby a collar tug is a straight red because it’s deemed dangerous.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Red for me

View attachment 37541

Click to expand...

By the rules it’s a shirt pull which is a yellow - for it to be a red then it’s got to be dangerous play , pulling a shirt 🤷‍♂️ I think the ref got that one right






I can’t see any referee giving it a red and VAR seemed to agree with the ref and didn’t even appear to be any potential red card check 

It’s cynical and professional but not a ref imo


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## RichA (Jul 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			By the rules it’s a shirt pull which is a yellow - for it to be a red then it’s got to be dangerous play...
		
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For what it's worth, in American Football, where bone crunching tackles are the norm, this manoeuvre, the horse collar tackle, is specifically outlawed because it is so dangerous.


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2021)

I felt that was a yellow as letter of the law it's still a shirt tug. However the studs into Grealish's knee later could definitely have been a red - we've seen softer reds in this very tournament, like Ampadu and the Swedish lad.


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## GB72 (Jul 12, 2021)

RichA said:



			For what it's worth, in American Football, where bone crunching tackles are the norm, this manoeuvre, the horse collar tackle, is specifically outlawed because it is so dangerous.
		
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Pretty much the same with rugby, a shirt pull will get you a penalty with maybe a yellow in some circumstances but yank someone back by the collar and you are looking at a straight red.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 12, 2021)

Contact to the neck - very dangerous. Should have been off and charged with assault!

Or at least sent on the first plane home


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

RichA said:



			For what it's worth, in American Football, where bone crunching tackles are the norm, this manoeuvre, the horse collar tackle, is specifically outlawed because it is so dangerous.
		
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Football has to be dragged into changing any laws.
They don’t do themselves any favours with some of the really soft sendings off.
Then a full on stamp ,over the ball on Grealish is just yellow.

That isn’t just your average shirt pull, and as far as I am aware it’s up to the ref to gauge the severity of the offence, that’s why I think he got both wrong and VAR won’t go against him.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

Can this now clear up the clear goal scoring opportunity misinformation please

There are two defenders who could get to saka if he had broken through which is why it couldn't be a red under that law.


Infact watching again...he not even last man!!!


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## SaintHacker (Jul 12, 2021)

The Grealish one I thought the ref got right, his foot bounces off the ball onto Grealish, its nasty but not intentional. The shirt pull was downright dangerous and should have been a red imo


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## Mudball (Jul 12, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Absolutely, he needs to stay and keep up the good work. He is the most successful manager in 55 years!
		
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unfortuantely, the same idiots have also been shouting Southgate Out..


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			The Grealish one I thought the ref got right, his foot bounces off the ball onto Grealish, its nasty but not intentional. The shirt pull was downright dangerous and should have been a red imo
		
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For dangerous play or excessive force id agree but not the last man or clear goal scoring thats been banded about


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## harpo_72 (Jul 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:








Can this now clear up the clear goal scoring opportunity misinformation please

There are two defenders who could get to saka if he had broken through which is why it couldn't be a red under that law.


Infact watching again...he not even last man!!!
		
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He would have been the last man as Saka was about to get on his bike.. it’s just too violent to be a simple shirt tug,


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			He would have been the last man as Saka was about to get on his bike.. it’s just too violent to be a simple shirt tug,
		
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The force I agree with 

But at time of challenge he is behind saka and isn't last man as shown in that video 

Those 2 defenders could have easily got there 

So can't be clear goal scoring opportunity hence a yellow 

But are we really surprised the Italians were playing dirty? It's what they shine at


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2021)

If we obsess over these decisions we're no better than the Danes and their sour grapes! We had ample opportunity to go and win the game and we didn't take it.


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## Hobbit (Jul 12, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			He would have been the last man as Saka was about to get on his bike.. it’s just too violent to be a simple shirt tug,
		
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Not sure about the last man bit. However, Law 12 is clear on violent or excessive force. It’s a sending off offence. It then becomes a subjective opinion from the ref and VAR. Was a shirt pull that resembled a garrotte excessive? The ref and VAR thought not. I would agree with them if it had been a straightforward shirt pull.

I believe the desire to allow play to flow and to try and keep cards in pockets, throughout the tournament, actually let down the decent players and gave excessive licence to the thugs in some teams.


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## larmen (Jul 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			But are we really surprised the Italians were playing dirty? It's what they shine at
		
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Dirty or robust? It’s not like he tried to hide it in a sneaky way, right?


Do we want to talk about the English guy (Maguire?) who pretended to be kicked in the face? Trying to get someone send off, maybe?


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

larmen said:



			Dirty or robust? It’s not like he tried to hide it in a sneaky way, right?


Do we want to talk about the English guy (Maguire?) who pretended to be kicked in the face? Trying to get someone send off, maybe?
		
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If he wanted to get him sent off he would have stayed down or made something of it 

He brushed it off pretty quick.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If he wanted to get him sent off he would have stayed down or made something of it

He brushed it off pretty quick.
		
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I thought Maguire was more of a "steady on old chap that was extraordinary close to knocking my block off" rather than actually feigning there had been contact.

I just want it to be tomorrow or the next day when it's fish and chip paper and I can turn on the news without hearing about the match!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If we obsess over these decisions we're no better than the Danes and their sour grapes! We had ample opportunity to go and win the game and we didn't take it.
		
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I don't think anyone is suggesting it would have changed the end result, particularly at the time it happened. We weren't robbed last night, I don't have the gutting feeling I've had previously. 

It's just a talking point.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think anyone is suggesting it would have changed the end result, particularly at the time it happened. *We weren't robbed last night*, I don't have the gutting feeling I've had previously.

It's just a talking point.
		
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I think it was more of "here, on a silver platter"


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think it was more of "here, on a silver platter"
		
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Sadly 😥


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If he wanted to get him sent off he would have stayed down or made something of it

He brushed it off pretty quick.
		
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That’s the difference between mentality.
Just imagine if that was Maguire on Imobelle.


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I just don’t think the Government and tech companies get it .
How long can this sort of thing go on for.
There needs to be action not just “ this is what we need to do”
		
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I don't think that it's just government and tech companies. The football authorities also have to take some of the blame. There is a massive effort put in by them to stop illegal streams of Premier League and Champions League football. The cynic in me would suggest that as illegal streaming costs clubs and organisations a lot of money that is why there is more interest in stopping those and seemingly much less effort put in to stopping abuse. Maybe if racist abuse started costing them millions of pounds in lost income they would be keener to do something about it.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s the difference between mentality.
Just imagine if that was Maguire on Imobelle.
		
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We would be mourning him


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## larmen (Jul 12, 2021)

My German magazine has released their team of the tournament including Maguire and Kane.

I can totally see Maguire, no discussion about it. But I would have picked Stirling over Kane. Kane has more goals, but Stirling did ‘do’ more, I think.

But it also shows that this year was really poor in strikers. Or the football is changing and the load of scoring is distributed much more?
Owngoal certainly deserves to be in the running for the team.


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## Beezerk (Jul 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			By the rules it’s a shirt pull which is a yellow - for it to be a red then it’s got to be dangerous play , pulling a shirt 🤷‍♂️ I think the ref got that one right






I can’t see any referee giving it a red and VAR seemed to agree with the ref and didn’t even appear to be any potential red card check

It’s cynical and professional but not a ref imo
		
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pauljames87 said:








Can this now clear up the clear goal scoring opportunity misinformation please

There are two defenders who could get to saka if he had broken through which is why it couldn't be a red under that law.


Infact watching again...he not even last man!!!
		
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Not a red but Saka is already at full pace, the other defenders are all on their heels, there's no way they would have caught him and he would have been clean through on goal IMO.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Not a red but Saka is already at full pace, the other defenders are all on their heels, there's no way they would have caught him and he would have been clean through on goal IMO.
		
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That's were we get into should of could of would of 

They have to go by facts and defenders were there 

The fact they were slow .. running the other way.. hobbling on one leg doesn't matter


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## Dando (Jul 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			We would be mourning him
		
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He would’ve rolled all the way back to Italy


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## fundy (Jul 12, 2021)

Tyrone Mings just scored a worldie


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2021)

larmen said:



			My German magazine has released their team of the tournament including Maguire and Kane.

I can totally see Maguire, no discussion about it. But I would have picked Stirling over Kane. Kane has more goals, but Stirling did ‘do’ more, I think.

But it also shows that this year was really poor in strikers. Or the football is changing and the load of scoring is distributed much more?
Owngoal certainly deserves to be in the running for the team.
		
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This has always been a bugbear for me.
Striker scores a goal and does nothing else in the 90 mins gets MOM.
Defenders play out of their skins and watch the likes of Kane getting plaudits.
That’s football for you, especially in the media.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Not a red but Saka is already at full pace, the other defenders are all on their heels, there's no way they would have caught him and he would have been clean through on goal IMO.
		
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That’s potentially the only discussion point in regards a red card - with it being on the halfway line it’s a huge judgement call

And well played Mings

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...fter-players-subject-to-racist-abuse-12354567


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2021)

larmen said:



			My German magazine has released their team of the tournament including Maguire and Kane.

I can totally see Maguire, no discussion about it. But I would have picked Stirling over Kane. Kane has more goals, but Stirling did ‘do’ more, I think.

But it also shows that this year was really poor in strikers. Or the football is changing and the load of scoring is distributed much more?
Owngoal certainly deserves to be in the running for the team.
		
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No, just no (I'm talking Kane here). Really not deserving of this. Surely Schick from the Czech team deserved to be in ahead of Kane?

As you say a real dearth of strikers in the tournament. How good would Spain or Italy be with a goalscorer? Hopefully some will come to the fore for the World Cup. Strikers bring excitement.


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## larmen (Jul 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No, just no (I'm talking Kane here). Really not deserving of this. Surely Schick from the Czech team deserved to be in ahead of Kane?
		
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They picked Schick, Kane and Ronaldo up front. DeBruyne, a few Italian players, a couple of Dutch and a Danish guy.

Rossi or Vialli would have helped the Italians a lot. But also a Lineker for England.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

larmen said:



			They picked Schick, Kane and Ronaldo up front. DeBruyne, a few Italian players, a couple of Dutch and a Danish guy.

Rossi or Vialli would have helped the Italians a lot. But also a Lineker for England.
		
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Ronaldo and Kane are just token picks - Schick , Sterling , Chiesa , Insigne all had better comps than both Ronaldo and Kane 

De Bryune had one good half as well 


also why do people do this 

The Danes did it after they lost the semi 

https://www.sportbible.com/football...ch-of-euro-2020-final-20210712?source=twitter


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## fundy (Jul 12, 2021)

For anyone who hasnt seen it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414672529717964807


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## harpo_72 (Jul 12, 2021)

larmen said:



			Dirty or robust? It’s not like he tried to hide it in a sneaky way, right?


Do we want to talk about the English guy (Maguire?) who pretended to be kicked in the face? Trying to get someone send off, maybe?
		
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It was the hand in the face as the Italian leveraged his foot up…


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			For anyone who hasnt seen it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414672529717964807

Click to expand...

That man is someone a lot of people should look up to - always shows a maturity way beyond his years , massively impressive young man


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## Tashyboy (Jul 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't think that it's just government and tech companies. The football authorities also have to take some of the blame. There is a massive effort put in by them to stop illegal streams of Premier League and Champions League football. The cynic in me would suggest that as illegal streaming costs clubs and organisations a lot of money that is why there is more interest in stopping those and seemingly much less effort put in to stopping abuse. Maybe if racist abuse started costing them millions of pounds in lost income they would be keener to do something about it.[/QUOTE

Just noticed on Facebook there’s a petition going round asking the government to ensure people have ID when they open social accounts over 400,000 signed it.
		
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## harpo_72 (Jul 12, 2021)

The social media sites can do it, it’s just greed. Think, every racist post gets x number of responses .. responses and activity is the money spinner. 
So they won’t do what is right because they are getting rich off it and the politicians won’t do anything because it is a potential pay day ..


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## Tashyboy (Jul 13, 2021)

I said it a good few months ago. Ave stopped my season ticket because part of our beautiful game is pig ugly and I don’t want to be associated with it, I don’t want to be financing it. Seeing videos of mindless morons at Wembley, and I won’t use the term fans. The rascist abuse to our players only endorses that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397709656240369665
🤬🤬 what hope is there when it’s teachers also giving the abuse


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397709656240369665
🤬🤬 what hope is there when it’s teachers also giving the abuse
		
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Hopefully soon to be an ex-teacher.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397709656240369665
🤬🤬 what hope is there when it’s teachers also giving the abuse
		
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Doesn’t say much about teachers being professional… they need to make an example of this person and hand them their butt on a plate or put them into a re-education program helping the community. 


On another note, Southgate said that it was also coming from abroad as well .. I know we get a lot of stuff from “abroad” and I am of the opinion that we could police that and shall we say disconnect them from communicating with us. Some will say that’s turning a blind eye, but for me it’s taking the oxygen away from them they will have no audience or victims. 
But as always it amounts to money and who is making it .. as a society we have a long way to go and making all equal means that those who are living very extravagant lives will lose out , and they don’t want that .


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## harpo_72 (Jul 13, 2021)

By the way Marcus Rashford is a hero, his football can be sublime but what he does off the pitch is phenomenal. 
He is definitely a role model and I would encourage anyone to follow his lead.


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## sunshine (Jul 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397709656240369665
🤬🤬 what hope is there when it’s teachers also giving the abuse
		
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I would hope (and expect) that the teacher's profile has been hacked.


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## hairball_89 (Jul 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			For anyone who hasnt seen it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414672529717964807

Click to expand...

He really is some guy. Top class footballer and an even better person. Him, combined with Tyrone Mings yesterday, is what makes *me* proud to support this England team. These lads give everything and still idiots do what they do. It beggars belief.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I would hope (and expect) that the teacher's profile has been hacked.
		
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I suspect you are right on that front. An ex-pupil trying to do some damage? The tweet as described, I'm not on twitter, is utterly appalling and any teacher posting that would surely know it would result in instant dismissal and exclusion from their profession for life. Of course, they really could be that stupid but you would hope not.


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## Beezerk (Jul 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I suspect you are right on that front. An ex-pupil trying to do some damage? The tweet as described, I'm not on twitter, is utterly appalling and any teacher posting that would surely know it would result in instant dismissal and exclusion from their profession for life. Of course, they really could be that stupid but you would hope not.
		
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That story was from ages ago wasn't it? I don't seem to remember the outcome of it 🤔


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 13, 2021)

Anyway, looking on the bright side, there is a move afoot in Scotland for the UK to bestow an award on the great sporting icon that is Roberto.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Anyway, looking on the bright side, there is a move afoot in Scotland for the UK to bestow an award on the great sporting icon that is Roberto.
		
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Do you think there will ever be that one day when you are celebrating the success of your own country as opposed to the success of another beating England 🤷‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			That story was from ages ago wasn't it? I don't seem to remember the outcome of it 🤔
		
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 , just seen the date. Yes, you are right. That is from May.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you think there will ever be that one day when you are celebrating the success of your own country as opposed to the success of another beating England 🤷‍♂️
		
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Don't feed, just ignore


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Just read that one of those identified abusing Saka on Instagram is apparently a 15yr old who claims to be on Everton’s books as an U16 player.

If true I hope the Club do the right thing and his career is ended today.
		
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harpo_72 said:



			Doesn’t say much about teachers being professional… they need to make an example of this person and hand them their butt on a plate or put them into a re-education program helping the community.


On another note, *Southgate said that it was also coming from abroad as well* .. I know we get a lot of stuff from “abroad” and I am of the opinion that we could police that and shall we say disconnect them from communicating with us. Some will say that’s turning a blind eye, but for me it’s taking the oxygen away from them they will have no audience or victims.
But as always it amounts to money and who is making it .. as a society we have a long way to go and making all equal means that those who are living very extravagant lives will lose out , and they don’t want that .
		
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Turns out the 15yr Old isn’t on Everton’s books, but plays for a team called Everton YFC, a Team that plays in the Youth Football Scotland League.

Why would a 15yr Old Scottish boy abuse an England player like that?


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## pauljames87 (Jul 13, 2021)

The Wedge said:



			I realise this will be difficult for someone like yourself to understand.
But people can take an interest in a subject, such as Golf and read internet sites without joining them.
Likewise I can buy a magazine, read it and not have to take up a subscription to said title.
In fact any people, potential members of this site, even possibly sponsors are probably even put off  when they see the continual rubbish and deliberate trolling posted by others.
		
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So you have an interest in golf, don't sign up but follow every other little thread?

I'm flattered by your stalking but I'm happily married.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 13, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Hopefully soon to be an ex-teacher. 

Click to expand...

He should name him,I wouldn’t want that cretin teaching my child.


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## larmen (Jul 13, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			He should name him,I wouldn’t want that cretin teaching my child.
		
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Looking at the backlash Savills is getting for following procedures he should only name him to the school head teacher and police, not publicly.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 13, 2021)

Think they should do the full investigation and determine whether the account was hacked or set up by a 3rd party .. when that is completed then name shame, fine the social media platform for being complicit and see what happens going forward 👍🙂


the fine though should be eye watering like the Ford Pinto case in the late 70s early 80s … this ultimately changed company policy and the car industry.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Donnarumma

Walker
Chellini
Christensen
Spinazzola

Phillips
Jorginho
Pedri

Insigne
Schick
Sterling
		
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The official Team of the Tournament


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## Orikoru (Jul 13, 2021)

A few odd selections in there. You'd argue Schick was better than Lukaku. Maehle deserves to be in, he was unreal for Denmark. I'm still not sure why they gave Donnarumma the player of the tournament thing, I'd argue Pickford was better across the tournament, but whatever. Was Maguire really that great? I won't object to him being there but perhaps a little surprised.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 13, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Anyway, looking on the bright side, there is a move afoot in Scotland for the UK to bestow an award on the great sporting icon that is Roberto.
		
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When is the open top parade to show off the we won the tournament 0-0 against England but really were the 4th worst team in the tournament trophy?


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Think they should do the full investigation and determine whether the account was hacked or set up by a 3rd party .. when that is completed then name shame, fine the social media platform for being complicit and see what happens going forward 👍🙂


the fine though should be eye watering like the Ford Pinto case in the late 70s early 80s … this ultimately changed company policy and the car industry.
		
Click to expand...


The trouble is that the only way to strengthen the control over social media is for any participant to provide ID, remove all use of anything but your real name etc. Aside from the issue of sorting that out on a global scale, you then have the argument as to those who are disenfrachised because they do not hold the usual forms of ID that would be required to verify your name and address. You would, effectively, be asking Facebook, Twitter etc to cancel all of their current billions of global account users and start again from scratch. 

Sadly I am not sure what the social media answer is as it would appear far too late in the game to try and introduce the measures needed to increase accountability amongst users. Not saying I don't support change, I do, but I am just not sure how to do it.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2021)

GB72 said:



			The trouble is that the only way to strengthen the control over social media is for any participant to provide ID, remove all use of anything but your real name etc. Aside from the issue of sorting that out on a global scale, you then have the argument as to those who are disenfrachised because they do not hold the usual forms of ID that would be required to verify your name and address. You would, effectively, be asking Facebook, Twitter etc to cancel all of their current billions of global account users and start again from scratch.

Sadly I am not sure what the social media answer is as it would appear far too late in the game to try and introduce the measures needed to increase accountability amongst users. Not saying I don't support change, I do, but I am just not sure how to do it.
		
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I think a way to stop this scum hacking other peoples accounts would be a start.
How are they able to do that ?
Not very tech savvy but the tech must be able to at least trace the IP adress


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## BiMGuy (Jul 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think a way to stop this scum hacking other peoples accounts would be a start.
How are they able to do that ?
Not very tech savvy but the tech must be able to at least trace the IP adress
		
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It's it funny how someone who posts an abusive message on SM has always had their account hacked?


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## Mudball (Jul 13, 2021)

Good to see Tyrone Mings calling out Patel for her hypocrisy and pretending to be disgusted by racist abuse.  Also Neville calling out BoJo for his letterbox comments.. 

..What an era to be alive, our footballers are taking a higher moral ground than our so called political masters.  If I could vote for Southgate for PM..  

(puts on flame suit)


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			It's it funny how someone who posts an abusive message on SM has always had their account hacked?
		
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This. 

Plus I suspect what is often meant by having an account hacked is that the phone was left unlocked and unattended and a 'mate' posted the comment or a mate who knows the password did it. I find it highly unlikely that some nefarious hacker spends his Sunday night hacking the socal media accounts of people just to post racist comments on a footballer's timeline. I suspect most of these cases of being hacked are down to stupidity, complicity, lieing or all of the aforementioned.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 13, 2021)

Maybe there isn’t a short term answer, unless we use and toughen up the current justice system.

In the long term we need to educate the children so they grow up as more tolerant, dare I say, better adults.

You’ll always have bigots, you’ll always have racists, but we need to have a culture and society that doesn’t tolerate those who act or speak in that way and make it totally unacceptable.

I doubt I’ll be still alive to see it change, but we can only hope for the future.


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe there isn’t a short term answer, unless we use and toughen up the current justice system.

In the long term we need to educate the children so they grow up as more tolerant, dare I say, better adults.

You’ll always have bigots, you’ll always have racists, but we need to have a culture and society that doesn’t tolerate those who act or speak in that way and make it totally unacceptable.

I doubt I’ll be still alive to see it change, but we can only hope for the future.
		
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Certainly on a point mentioned earlier, I would like to see an additional charge of wasting police time if there is a claim of being hacked that later proves to be a lie.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			A few odd selections in there. You'd argue Schick was better than Lukaku. Maehle deserves to be in, he was unreal for Denmark. I'm still not sure why they gave Donnarumma the player of the tournament thing, I'd argue Pickford was better across the tournament, but whatever. Was Maguire really that great? I won't object to him being there but perhaps a little surprised.
		
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Højbjerg was pony aswell ..


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## Orikoru (Jul 13, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Højbjerg was pony aswell ..
		
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Err, no he wasn't. He was massive for Denmark.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Err, no he wasn't. He was massive for Denmark.
		
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Not better than Phillips.. 

Also awful in their first 2 games (allow the first bit of a shock )


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## Mudball (Jul 13, 2021)

Maybe put Christian Erikson on the bench... ???


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2021)

GB72 said:



			The trouble is that the only way to strengthen the control over social media is for any participant to provide ID, remove all use of anything but your real name etc. Aside from the issue of sorting that out on a global scale, you then have the argument as to those who are disenfrachised because they do not hold the usual forms of ID that would be required to verify your name and address. You would, effectively, be asking Facebook, Twitter etc to cancel all of their current billions of global account users and start again from scratch.

Sadly I am not sure what the social media answer is as it would appear far too late in the game to try and introduce the measures needed to increase accountability amongst users. Not saying I don't support change, I do, but I am just not sure how to do it.
		
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The number who would claim to be disenfranchised are very small in the grand scheme of things and ultimately we are not talking about the right to vote here, it is the right to be on a social media platform. It's fluff of the highest level. If someone if that bothered about being on there then simply prove who you are. Roll out an update, to keep posting / existing on a platform then someone who runs that platform has to verify who you are. If you can't do that then your account is closed. No need to make it more complicated.


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The number who would claim to be disenfranchised are very small in the grand scheme of things and ultimately we are not talking about the right to vote here, it is the right to be on a social media platform. It's fluff of the highest level. If someone if that bothered about being on there then simply prove who you are. Roll out an update, to keep posting / existing on a platform then someone who runs that platform has to verify who you are. If you can't do that then your account is closed. No need to make it more complicated.
		
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But we are not just talking about the UK here, we are talking a global scale operation by what are not even UK companies. With trump still lurking as well, it could easily be a massive right wing call to arms in the US. Just playing devils advocate here on what I can see coming.


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## IainP (Jul 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			A few odd selections in there. You'd argue Schick was better than Lukaku. Maehle deserves to be in, he was unreal for Denmark. I'm still not sure why they gave Donnarumma the player of the tournament thing, I'd argue Pickford was better across the tournament, but whatever. Was Maguire really that great? I won't object to him being there but perhaps a little surprised.
		
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Re Maguire, maybe the view from the continent is he was a threat from set pieces, often carried the ball out from defence,  and was part of a solid defensive unit.
Did many other CBs score? (Not own goals!)


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			It's it funny how someone who posts an abusive message on SM has always had their account hacked?
		
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Is that easy to prove or disprove.
As I said I am not to tech savvy.
How do you hack someones account.?
Is it weak security or just carelessness.?


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## fundy (Jul 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is that easy to prove or disprove.
As I said I am not to tech savvy.
How do you hack someones account.?
Is it weak security or just carelessness.?
		
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depends what you call hack, if you leave your account signed in on your phone then go to the toilet leaving your phone on the table then its an open goal for a "friend" to pick up your phone and post on your social media

in terms of someone you dont know hacking you, get plenty of people whose accounts get hacked because they click on a link etc

preventable but most people dont


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2021)

GB72 said:



			But we are not just talking about the UK here, we are talking a global scale operation by what are not even UK companies. With trump still lurking as well, it could easily be a massive right wing call to arms in the US. Just playing devils advocate here on what I can see coming.
		
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I see your point but ultimately we need to stop these companies from making excuses. Identifying who you are at some stage so that there is traceability in terms of the law seems pretty reasonable. If the SM companies don't like it then get them to come up with an alternative. It is not about Big Brother, it is accountability of individuals for their actions.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2021)

IainP said:



			Re Maguire, maybe the view from the continent is he was a threat from set pieces, often carried the ball out from defence,  and was part of a solid defensive unit.
Did many other CBs score? (Not own goals!)
		
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Didn’t an Italian CB score one?


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## sunshine (Jul 13, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Højbjerg was pony aswell ..
		
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Er what? I'm guessing you didn't watch any of the tournament!


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## sunshine (Jul 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			A few odd selections in there. You'd argue Schick was better than Lukaku. Maehle deserves to be in, he was unreal for Denmark. I'm still not sure why they gave Donnarumma the player of the tournament thing, I'd argue Pickford was better across the tournament, but whatever. Was Maguire really that great? I won't object to him being there but perhaps a little surprised.
		
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I don't think any of the selections were surprising. But you can argue plenty of others.

Donnarumma was immense, but so was Pickford. And Schmeichel.
Shaw and Maehle were superb. Denzel Dumfried made a terrific impact in the group stage.
I thought Mings played really well in the opening games but then Maguire came in and played at another level, so I understand why he made it. Mings should be in the team for his tweet.
Damsgaard and Verrati had good tournaments.

Up front it wasn't really a tournament where strikers shone. I'd go with Schick as well. But Lukaku, Depay and even Benzema made an impact in the earlier stages. Or you could be a clown like Chris Sutton and select Kane.


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## stefanovic (Jul 13, 2021)

I can understand the frustration.
So much hype and expectation, then nothing.
Don't wish to gloat but I do remember England winning the W/C in 66. 
We basked in the sunshine of it for 4 years until the heart breaker of 1970 when England 2-0 up against W. Germany and coasting made 2 dreadful substitutions which allowed the Germans to push forward and score 3.
Will England ever win again? I don't think so. Not with the present set up.


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## Mudball (Jul 13, 2021)

not always hiding behind anonymity of social media.... saw this on Linkedin today in response to a post by Jordan Henderson.  I did not even know that footy players were on Linkedin.  The guy is venting (he is allowed to), but a bit too close to the bone. He does stay away from any racial abuse (thank God).  There is a place where disquiet and unhappiness should be allowed 

PS: I dont agree with what he has written


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## harpo_72 (Jul 13, 2021)

Mudball said:



			not always hiding behind anonymity of social media.... saw this on Linkedin today in response to a post by Jordan Henderson.  I did not even know that footy players were on Linkedin.  The guy is venting (he is allowed to), but a bit too close to the bone. He does stay away from any racial abuse (thank God).  There is a place where disquiet and unhappiness should be allowed

PS: I dont agree with what he has written


View attachment 37553

Click to expand...

Views and opinions are fine, but abuse is not. We all see stuff differently, which is life’s rich tapestry.
However to qualify his opinion .. one would ask “ who are you? What have you done? What would you know?” … like it’s frequently said here we are all armchair critics with in depth knowledge 🧐 But to openly post this opinion on LinkedIn is risky


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 13, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Views and opinions are fine, but abuse is not. We all see stuff differently, which is life’s rich tapestry.
However to qualify his opinion .. one would ask “ who are you? What have you done? What would you know?” … like it’s frequently said here we are all armchair critics with in depth knowledge 🧐 But to openly post this opinion on LinkedIn is risky
		
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In his profile:
Associate Director - FA Licensed Players Agent/IntermediaryReal-Time International (Agency) LtdJan 2002 - Present19 yrs 7 mos
Professional player representation - Contract and commercial/sponsorship negotiations, lifestyle and investment guidance, and general legal advice. Sporting event organisation collaboration and promotions.

Probably believes he knows more than the players.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			In his profile:
Associate Director - FA Licensed Players Agent/IntermediaryReal-Time International (Agency) LtdJan 2002 - Present19 yrs 7 mos
Professional player representation - Contract and commercial/sponsorship negotiations, lifestyle and investment guidance, and general legal advice. Sporting event organisation collaboration and promotions.

Probably believes he knows more than the players.

Click to expand...

Is that a bit like some of these purchasing agents employed by team owners ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2021)

Mudball said:



			not always hiding behind anonymity of social media.... saw this on Linkedin today in response to a post by Jordan Henderson.  I did not even know that footy players were on Linkedin.  The guy is venting (he is allowed to), but a bit too close to the bone. He does stay away from any racial abuse (thank God).  There is a place where disquiet and unhappiness should be allowed

PS: I dont agree with what he has written


View attachment 37553

Click to expand...




harpo_72 said:



			Views and opinions are fine, but abuse is not. We all see stuff differently, which is life’s rich tapestry.
However to qualify his opinion .. one would ask “ who are you? What have you done? What would you know?” … like it’s frequently said here we are all armchair critics with in depth knowledge 🧐 But to openly post this opinion on LinkedIn is risky
		
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I can’t see what’s wrong with what he posted 🤷‍♂

It was an opinion that has been seen from a number of people

He didn’t insult anyone as such


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## harpo_72 (Jul 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can’t see what’s wrong with what he posted 🤷‍♂

It was an opinion that has been seen from a number of people

He didn’t insult anyone as such
		
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Linkedin is not the place for that


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can’t see what’s wrong with what he posted 🤷‍♂

It was an opinion that has been seen from a number of people

He didn’t insult anyone as such
		
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harpo_72 said:



			Linkedin is not the place for that
		
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I'd agree with both. The post is an opinion, it isn't abusive. LinkedIn is a work related site and to put personal thoughts like that on there is unprofessional I would say. LinkedIn isn't Facebook but that is his lookout.


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## Kellfire (Jul 13, 2021)

Jamesbrown said:



			Do you look for faux social injustices in everything or something? Give it a break, have a drink, get an escort or something. Anything.
		
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How did this turn out?


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## sunshine (Jul 13, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Linkedin is not the place for that
		
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I agree it's rather odd. But then if Henderson is going to post then it's fair for others to respond (respectfully).


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## BiMGuy (Jul 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can’t see what’s wrong with what he posted 🤷‍♂

It was an opinion that has been seen from a number of people

He didn’t insult anyone as such
		
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He has right to his opinion. As does everyone else. That doesn't mean hes right the rest of us have to give any credit to his opinion. Which was pretty much a load of rambling nonsense.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			He has right to his opinion. As does everyone else. That doesn't mean hes right the rest of us have to give any credit to his opinion. Which was pretty much a load of rambling nonsense.
		
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Well he was right about Rashfords penalty at least!


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## sunshine (Jul 13, 2021)

I'm really bemused by all the talk around England's penalty takers.

Why bring on 2 players to take a penalty? It was blatantly obvious they had been practising for weeks, and had a clear ranking order in terms of who was going to take penalties and in what order. Rashford and Sancho were obviously two of the best and introduced with a clear objective. This can't have been a surprise - I'm sure Southgate discussed with the squad before the knock outs that this would happen.

Why give the last penalty to Saka? Again, I'm sure they rehearsed this scenario many times and Saka was the most successful / consistent under pressure. Sometimes youth brings fearlessness.

The players that didn't take a penalty did not bottle it, they just weren't in the top 5.

OK - so the 3 misses were poor penalties. Nerves got the better of them, but I'm sure the squad and management team had done all they could to prepare. This was the most prepared England team / squad I have seen.

In my eyes Southgate and the England squad have really stepped up to the plate and delivered in this tournament. So many England teams from the last 20 years would have tripped up against Germany or Denmark. This is the first time England has been a genuine contender since 1996 (the hot air about the Golden generation was just media hype), and I'm excited about their prospects at the WC.


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## Dando (Jul 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd agree with both. The post is an opinion, it isn't abusive. LinkedIn is a work related site and to put personal thoughts like that on there is unprofessional I would say. LinkedIn isn't Facebook but that is his lookout.
		
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LinkedIn is getting more and more like Facebook


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## Dando (Jul 13, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I'm really bemused by all the talk around England's penalty takers.

Why bring on 2 players to take a penalty? It was blatantly obvious they had been practising for weeks, and had a clear ranking order in terms of who was going to take penalties and in what order. Rashford and Sancho were obviously two of the best and introduced with a clear objective. This can't have been a surprise - I'm sure Southgate discussed with the squad before the knock outs that this would happen.

Why give the last penalty to Saka? Again, I'm sure they rehearsed this scenario many times and Saka was the most successful / consistent under pressure. Sometimes youth brings fearlessness.

The players that didn't take a penalty did not bottle it, they just weren't in the top 5.

OK - so the 3 misses were poor penalties. Nerves got the better of them, but I'm sure the squad and management team had done all they could to prepare. This was the most prepared England team / squad I have seen.

In my eyes Southgate and the England squad have really stepped up to the plate and delivered in this tournament. So many England teams from the last 20 years would have tripped up against Germany or Denmark. This is the first time England has been a genuine contender since 1996 (the hot air about the Golden generation was just media hype), and I'm excited about their prospects at the WC.
		
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Sorry but as a former keeper, only 1 England penalty was missed as 2 were saved!


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## pauljames87 (Jul 13, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I'm really bemused by all the talk around England's penalty takers.

Why bring on 2 players to take a penalty? It was blatantly obvious they had been practising for weeks, and had a clear ranking order in terms of who was going to take penalties and in what order. Rashford and Sancho were obviously two of the best and introduced with a clear objective. This can't have been a surprise - I'm sure Southgate discussed with the squad before the knock outs that this would happen.

Why give the last penalty to Saka? Again, I'm sure they rehearsed this scenario many times and Saka was the most successful / consistent under pressure. Sometimes youth brings fearlessness.

The players that didn't take a penalty did not bottle it, they just weren't in the top 5.

OK - so the 3 misses were poor penalties. Nerves got the better of them, but I'm sure the squad and management team had done all they could to prepare. This was the most prepared England team / squad I have seen.

In my eyes Southgate and the England squad have really stepped up to the plate and delivered in this tournament. So many England teams from the last 20 years would have tripped up against Germany or Denmark. This is the first time England has been a genuine contender since 1996 (the hot air about the Golden generation was just media hype), and I'm excited about their prospects at the WC.
		
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Imo it's 1 miss and 2 saves. We give zero credit to the keeper even tho if that was Pickford we would be saying great save

2 saves but one awful miss

1 because of the timing of it. Had chance to go ahead in shoot out

2 because he had done the hard bit and send keeper wrong way

3 because he missed an open goal


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## pauljames87 (Jul 13, 2021)

Dando said:



			Sorry but as a former keeper, only 1 England penalty was missed as 2 were saved!
		
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Snap it seems lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			He has right to his opinion. As does everyone else. That doesn't mean hes right the rest of us have to give any credit to his opinion. Which was pretty much a load of rambling nonsense.
		
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I don’t think he has stated that he is “right” - it’s just his opinion at the end of the day and it’s an opinion that will be shared by others , that’s how it goes these days 

There will be many England fans who don’t see things much different - getting to a final is a great achievement, but the route was variable and it was like being the host nation , and when they faced that top team they were found wanting when the questions were asked. 

It will all depend on what angle you want to see it from - bottling it when get to a final , or being the plucky loser again 

you look at the two squads and compare the two - it’s fair to say for some that Englands looked stronger but Italy had the better proven manager. 

Southgate will continue into the World Cup - the South American teams aren’t too strong , it’s a great chance once again but can many see any changes to what happened in these Euros ? 8 defensive players in the team 🤷‍♂️ - I don’t think Southgate has the tactical nous to do it but we will see


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2021)

Dando said:



			LinkedIn is getting more and more like Facebook
		
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I don't really use it to be honest. Like most I suppose I started with good intentions and then trailed off. If it has gone down that route then that is pretty poor. Putting your personal views out on a business platform is questionable imo.


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## Fade and Die (Jul 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t think he has stated that he is “right” - it’s just his opinion at the end of the day and it’s an opinion that will be shared by others , that’s how it goes these days 

There will be many England fans who don’t see things much different - getting to a final is a great achievement, but the route was variable and it was like being the host nation , and when they faced that top team they were found wanting when the questions were asked. 

It will all depend on what angle you want to see it from - bottling it when get to a final , or being the plucky loser again 

you look at the two squads and compare the two - it’s fair to say for some that Englands looked stronger but Italy had the better proven manager. 

Southgate will continue into the World Cup - the South American teams aren’t too strong , it’s a great chance once again but can many see any changes to what happened in these Euros ? 8 defensive players in the team 🤷‍♂️ - I don’t think Southgate has the tactical nous to do it but we will see
		
Click to expand...


Agree with your last few lines, I  think Southgate did most things in the tournament well. Where he is clearly lacking is in tactical shrewdness when things start to change. His responses to Mancini's changes of personnel and formation changes were stilted. As for the football, It’s not an enjoyable watch and I wouldn’t pay to watch it every week. Keeper, back 5 and 2 holding midfielders? Roy Hodgson and Sam Allardyce would have been slated.


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## Orikoru (Jul 13, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I'm really bemused by all the talk around England's penalty takers.

Why bring on 2 players to take a penalty? It was blatantly obvious they had been practising for weeks, and had a clear ranking order in terms of who was going to take penalties and in what order. Rashford and Sancho were obviously two of the best and introduced with a clear objective. This can't have been a surprise - I'm sure Southgate discussed with the squad before the knock outs that this would happen.

Why give the last penalty to Saka? Again, I'm sure they rehearsed this scenario many times and Saka was the most successful / consistent under pressure. Sometimes youth brings fearlessness.

The players that didn't take a penalty did not bottle it, they just weren't in the top 5.

OK - so the 3 misses were poor penalties. Nerves got the better of them, but I'm sure the squad and management team had done all they could to prepare. This was the most prepared England team / squad I have seen.

In my eyes Southgate and the England squad have really stepped up to the plate and delivered in this tournament. So many England teams from the last 20 years would have tripped up against Germany or Denmark. This is the first time England has been a genuine contender since 1996 (the hot air about the Golden generation was just media hype), and I'm excited about their prospects at the WC.
		
Click to expand...

My view was simply that scoring penalties in training is very VERY different to scoring one in a tournament final when you've just come on and not kicked a ball. It seemed a really bizarre move to me. And generally it seems sensible to put a mature experienced player on the crucial 5th penalty rather than a kid. But why not bring Rashford and Sancho on ten mins earlier? Try and win the game with them having an impact, if it doesn't work they are still able to take penalties, only they're not going into the shootout completely cold.

It's the only thing Southgate got wrong all tournament though. These things happen.


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## sunshine (Jul 13, 2021)

Dando said:



			Sorry but as a former keeper, only 1 England penalty was missed as 2 were saved!
		
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Fair point!
The 2 saved penalties were weak though - too close to the keeper and at a good height to be saved.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't really use it to be honest. Like most I suppose I started with good intentions and then trailed off. If it has gone down that route then that is pretty poor. Putting your personal views out on a business platform is questionable imo.
		
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What it has done is highlight people with questionable morals, so we can avoid doing business with them.


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## Slime (Jul 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There will be many England fans who don’t see things much different - getting to a final is a great achievement, but the route was variable and it was like being the host nation , and when they faced that top team they were found wanting when the questions were asked.

*It will all depend on what angle you want to see it from - bottling it when get to a final , or being the plucky loser again*

Click to expand...

Or going through a tournament undefeated ......................... that's my angle.


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## Golfmmad (Jul 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			Or going through a tournament undefeated ......................... that's my angle.
		
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And mine is:
We lost a penalty shoot out- just!


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## Rlburnside (Jul 13, 2021)

M



Slime said:



			Or going through a tournament undefeated ......................... that's my angle.
		
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My angle is …… we lost again , and the reason why is instead of trying to be positive and try to win the game we tried to defend a 1 goal lead sat back and handed the game to Italy. 

Not for the first time this has happened , we have a history of not using our creative players and this IMO is the reason we haven’t won anything for over 50 years, and will sadly not change with the current set up.


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## Orikoru (Jul 13, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			M

My angle is …… we lost again , and the reason why is instead of trying to be positive and try to win the game we tried to defend a 1 goal lead sat back and handed the game to Italy.

Not for the first time this has happened , we have a history of not using our creative players and this IMO is the reason we haven’t won anything for over 50 years, and will sadly not change with the current set up.
		
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Hang on, I'm getting deja vu to Mourinho's Spurs here...


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## Rlburnside (Jul 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Hang on, I'm getting deja vu to Mourinho's Spurs here...
		
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Sadly true, you’re to young to remember Tony Currie one of the best players of his generation never played enough for England and that has been the theme for England since 1970. 

Every England manager in Major finals since Ramsey with the exception of Venables has gone out with the intention of not losing a game instead of trying to win the game. 

History clearly tells us this doesn’t work , Southgate will take us to the World Cup with the same tactics and is doomed to fail.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			M

My angle is …… we lost again , and the reason why is instead of trying to be positive and try to win the game we tried to defend a 1 goal lead sat back and handed the game to Italy.

Not for the first time this has happened , we have a history of not using our creative players and this IMO is the reason we haven’t won anything for over 50 years, and will sadly not change with the current set up.
		
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Yes this.
We all knew our big talent was going forward.
We knew our weakness was in defence, alledgely.
But we never seen most of the young talent.
But  set out not to lose. 
Can’t see GS changing his philosophy.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 14, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			M

My angle is …… we lost again , and the reason why is instead of trying to be positive and try to win the game we tried to defend a 1 goal lead sat back and handed the game to Italy.

Not for the first time this has happened , we have a history of not using our creative players and this IMO is the reason we haven’t won anything for over 50 years, and will sadly not change with the current set up.
		
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👍to the above.

There’s an old saying Lose, Learn, Win.

We lost v Croatia in the World Cup Semi final, we never learned, we lost again.
Watching England v Italy was like watching the world cup semi again.
My grief is that GS has set out his stall in how he now wants to set out his teams. The teams we beat, you would expect us to beat. GS was handed a managerial lesson by Roberto Mancini.


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## Slime (Jul 14, 2021)

Can you two please take it to PM rather than risk ruining this thread?

Thanks.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			Can you two please take it to PM rather than risk ruining this thread?

Thanks.
		
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My inbox is always open unless people want to just continue to try and be clever publically whilst chicken to say anything privately


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## Rlburnside (Jul 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			👍to the above.

There’s an old saying Lose, Learn, Win.

We lost v Croatia in the World Cup Semi final, we never learned, we lost again.
Watching England v Italy was like watching the world cup semi again.
My grief is that GS has set out his stall in how he now wants to set out his teams. The teams we beat, you would expect us to beat. GS was handed a managerial lesson by Roberto Mancini.
		
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Your right Tashy , remember when the Dutch transformed football with very fluid attacking style the FA sent over officials and coaches to study the Dutch system,nothing changed , it’s not ‘the English way’ we were told. 

We carried on stifling our creative players up until this day, the FA deserve some credit with the structure they have put in place now but until we change our mentality we can’t progress. 

With the amount of young talent available to England now would be the ideal time to change.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 14, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Your right Tashy , remember when the Dutch transformed football with very fluid attacking style the FA sent over officials and coaches to study the Dutch system,nothing changed , it’s not ‘the English way’ we were told.

We carried on stifling our creative players up until this day, the FA deserve some credit with the structure they have put in place now but until we change our mentality we can’t progress.

With the amount of young talent available to England now would be the ideal time to change.
		
Click to expand...

It's drummed into the fans aswell

We rate players who run about a lot .. players get slated if they don't run ...ozil was a fine example. One of the most creative and clever players to grace the league.. slated because he didn't run about a lot


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## larmen (Jul 14, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Your right Tashy , remember when the Dutch transformed football with very fluid attacking style the FA sent over officials and coaches to study the Dutch system,nothing changed , it’s not ‘the English way’ we were told. 

We carried on stifling our creative players up until this day, the FA deserve some credit with the structure they have put in place now but until we change our mentality we can’t progress. 

With the amount of young talent available to England now would be the ideal time to change.
		
Click to expand...

Germany also looked at Holland at the time. My team even got a Dutch coach, Aad de Moos, but we didn’t have the players to make it work. 4 at the back with no sweeper, it was impossible with players coming out of the classic system. But we started the academy due to it.

France where next, they were awful in the 90s, but they turned it around for the WC and EC.
Germany then made plenty of finals and won a World Cup as well before being bad again.


That’s the weird thing. All those countries, they break the beta, they rise, and then instead of getting even better they get worse again.


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## Bdill93 (Jul 14, 2021)

Villa's new kit has been released... 

Cant wait to see the boys live again next season!


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## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Villa's new kit has been released... 

Cant wait to see the boys live again next season!
		
Click to expand...

Let me guess.. is it claret and blue?


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## Bdill93 (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Let me guess.. is it claret and blue?
		
Click to expand...


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## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2021)

Bdill93 said:





Click to expand...

With Scottish tartan on it?? Weird choice.


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## Kellfire (Jul 14, 2021)

And why is there a Man City player wearing it?


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## harpo_72 (Jul 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			My inbox is always open unless people want to just continue to try and be clever publically whilst chicken to say anything privately
		
Click to expand...

Is that a euphemism??


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## harpo_72 (Jul 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			Can you two please take it to PM rather than risk ruining this thread?

Thanks.
		
Click to expand...

True but why not start a new thread called amateur psychoanalysis and other misguided conclusions


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			With Scottish tartan on it?? Weird choice. 

Click to expand...

Aye - very Paterson’s shortbread tin…😻


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 14, 2021)

Good result for PNE last night against Scotland’s 2021 double cup winning team…


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## toyboy54 (Jul 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			Can you two please take it to PM rather than risk ruining this thread?

Thanks.
		
Click to expand...

Two Freudian impostors......Clement and Emma


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## arnieboy (Jul 14, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Sadly true, you’re to young to remember Tony Currie one of the best players of his generation never played enough for England and that has been the theme for England since 1970.

Every England manager in Major finals since Ramsey with the exception of Venables has gone out with the intention of not losing a game instead of trying to win the game.

History clearly tells us this doesn’t work , Southgate will take us to the World Cup with the same tactics and is doomed to fail.
		
Click to expand...

You can probably add Glen Hoddle, Matt LeTissier and Stan Bowles, none of them played enough for England.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			With Scottish tartan on it?? Weird choice. 

Click to expand...

maybe they are planning on having a crack at the shortbread market?


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## Billysboots (Jul 14, 2021)

The Wedge said:



			Don't flatter yourself, most people will try to avoid you based on the garbage you type on here, on such a frequent basis.

The only person who thinks you have any relevance is yourself, hence the continual need to answer every post, quote people and get rid of that chip on your shoulder.

You're probably a 50 year old man who was bullied as a kid, hence you're continual acting up on the Internet, safely hidden away in a dark room behind your keyboard.

Ask the wife ( if that's even true), you don't always have to have the last word or comment on everything.
		
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum. Got anything to say about football?


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## pauljames87 (Jul 14, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			You can probably add Glen Hoddle, Matt LeTissier and Stan Bowles, none of them played enough for England.
		
Click to expand...

Letissier I'd agree but hoddle? 53 Caps seems on the high end? Or was someone keeping him out the team more


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## arnieboy (Jul 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Letissier I'd agree but hoddle? 53 Caps seems on the high end? Or was someone keeping him out the team more
		
Click to expand...

Ah, but I am a Spurs supporter!


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## Bdill93 (Jul 14, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			And why is there a Man City player wearing it?
		
Click to expand...

Hes going nowhere


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## Bdill93 (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			With Scottish tartan on it?? Weird choice. 

Click to expand...

Wheres the tartan?


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## pauljames87 (Jul 14, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Ah, but I am a Spurs supporter!
		
Click to expand...

Well nobody is perfect 😂

I'd say same about joe Cole only 56 caps sounds a lot but criminal he didn't get to triple figures .. such a talent


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 14, 2021)

Bdill93 said:





Click to expand...

I had to turn that picture 90 degrees to work out who it was.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 14, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Welcome to the forum. Got anything to say about football?
		
Click to expand...

😂😂👍


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## RichA (Jul 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Letissier I'd agree but hoddle? 53 Caps seems on the high end? Or was someone keeping him out the team more
		
Click to expand...

I think that Ian Wright was another who never really got the chance he deserved.
The dozen or so occasions I saw him playing from the stands, I realised what a great player he was. TV coverage and highlights never did his all round game justice.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			With Scottish tartan on it?? Weird choice. 

Click to expand...

A common misconception that tartan evolved in Scotland. Similar to the misconception that Scotland won 0-0 😉😁


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## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2021)

RichA said:



			I think that Ian Wright was another who never really got the chance he deserved.
The dozen or so occasions I saw him playing from the stands, I realised what a great player he was. TV coverage and highlights never did his all round game justice.
		
Click to expand...

In fairness he only broke through when he was well in his 20s, and then it was the Shearer & Sheringham era. There were plenty of good strikers in that sort of time and afterwards that didn't get many caps, like Andy Cole and Robbie Fowler. The biggest travesty by far is Le Tissier though. If he was Italian or French he'd have won 70 caps.


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## RichA (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			In fairness he only broke through when he was well in his 20s, and then it was the Shearer & Sheringham era. There were plenty of good strikers in that sort of time and afterwards that didn't get many caps, like Andy Cole and Robbie Fowler. The biggest travesty by far is Le Tissier though. If he was Italian or French he'd have won 70 caps.
		
Click to expand...

True, but in an era of goalhangers who contributed nothing more to the team than 0.5 goals per match, Wrighty was probably covering a similar mileage to Kalvin Phillips.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			In fairness he only broke through when he was well in his 20s, and then it was the Shearer & Sheringham era. There were plenty of good strikers in that sort of time and afterwards that didn't get many caps, like Andy Cole and Robbie Fowler. The biggest travesty by far is Le Tissier though. If he was Italian or French he'd have won 70 caps.
		
Click to expand...

Watching LeTissier play and stuff he did, he was too good to have been overlooked. That is one of the fundamental issues I have with England selection, they don’t pick the greats from small teams. They don’t get that in a big team a player is surrounded by greats who create time and space for other players to shine. So being good in a small team you don’t have that level of support .. so that player must be pretty special.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 14, 2021)

Fowler in his prime was too good to ignore, he had speed and always worked the keeper …


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 14, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Fowler in his prime was too good to ignore, he had speed and always worked the keeper …
		
Click to expand...

Yes a proper finisher almost always hit the target.


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## Slime (Jul 14, 2021)

Robin Friday anyone?


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## Mudball (Jul 14, 2021)

Now that is a change... GBN presenter takes the knee.. who would have thought that football would help at least a few see the light of the day.. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414860976642576385


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## sunshine (Jul 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s an old saying Lose, Learn, Win.

We lost v Croatia in the World Cup Semi final, we never learned, we lost again.
Watching England v Italy was like watching the world cup semi again.
My grief is that GS has set out his stall in how he now wants to set out his teams. The teams we beat, you would expect us to beat. GS was handed a managerial lesson by Roberto Mancini.
		
Click to expand...

There is a massive flaw in your argument: England does not have Messi, de Bruyne and Ronaldo up front. I've not seen much of Sancho because I don't watch German football, but he hasn't shone for England the way Saka and Sterling have. Do you think Man U would have spent £70m on him if he was Norwegian? Foden looks neat and tidy but he's not Pedri. Don't fall for the media hype - use your eyes to judge how good the players really are.

Southgate has to work with what he's got.

Lose, learn, win.... this is exactly what Southgate has done. Over the last 20 years, the teams that get to the finals of a world cup or euros are typically teams that can grind out a 1-0 win. Giving talented players carte blanche to play exciting attacking football is rarely successful, look at Netherlands and Belgium.

The England team of the 2000s tried to be exciting and always fell over when they came up against a good team in the knock out stage. There's no point scoring 3 or 4 against Croatia and Czech Rep in the group stage if you then lose against Germany. Southgate oversaw a 2-0 win against Germany - the first time we have beaten a proper top tier side in a KO match since 1996. That is major progress.

I thought England have definitely improved since that world cup semi in 2018. Italy were just better. No managerial lesson from Mancini, just better players on a roll. But this is a young England team and they will improve.


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## sunshine (Jul 14, 2021)

RichA said:



			I think that Ian Wright was another who never really got the chance he deserved.
The dozen or so occasions I saw him playing from the stands, I realised what a great player he was. TV coverage and highlights never did his all round game justice.
		
Click to expand...

I liked Wrighty, but hard to pick him ahead of Shearer, Sheringham and Fowler. When he was on form, Les Ferdinand was unplayable and hard to overlook him too.

Thinking back to that 90s era, Trevor Sinclair is a player who never played for England as much as I expected. He had pace and skill, but only broke into the England squad towards the end of his career when he was past his best.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 14, 2021)

One for Slime or any of the UTD fans.
Do you actually rate Rashford as a player?
Obviously he’s a good person,but personally i don’t rate him & think UTD Will keep him no matter what because he’s good for the image.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2021)

sunshine said:



			There is a massive flaw in your argument: England does not have Messi, de Bruyne and Ronaldo up front. I've not seen much of Sancho because I don't watch German football, but he hasn't shone for England the way Saka and Sterling have. Do you think Man U would have spent £70m on him if he was Norwegian? Foden looks neat and tidy but he's not Pedri. Don't fall for the media hype - use your eyes to judge how good the players really are.

Southgate has to work with what he's got.

Lose, learn, win.... this is exactly what Southgate has done. Over the last 20 years, the teams that get to the finals of a world cup or euros are typically teams that can grind out a 1-0 win. Giving talented players carte blanche to play exciting attacking football is rarely successful, look at Netherlands and Belgium.

The England team of the 2000s tried to be exciting and always fell over when they came up against a good team in the knock out stage. There's no point scoring 3 or 4 against Croatia and Czech Rep in the group stage if you then lose against Germany. Southgate oversaw a 2-0 win against Germany - the first time we have beaten a proper top tier side in a KO match since 1996. That is major progress.

I thought England have definitely improved since that world cup semi in 2018. Italy were just better. No managerial lesson from Mancini, just better players on a roll. But this is a young England team and they will improve.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry I will have to disagree 

Italy don’t have the likes of Messi etc up front yet they were able to get the best out of their squad 

Sancho can’t shine for England when he is sat on the bench but he has played at the highest level in the CL and shown how good a player he is 

Southgate had a squad loaded with attacking talent yet started the final with 8 defensive players - they caught Italy on the break and scored earlier , they then controlled the game for a short period until Mancini made some tactical changes with the front three - Southgate didn’t react to that or couldn’t react. 

Many other managers made changes early -England had Kane , Sterling , Mount totally out of the game - they offered nothing from 30 mins onwards - when italy were on top he just sat there and watched them dominate , then he made a change that wasn’t going to get them moving forward- after 60 mins and when Italy lost Chiesa they sat a bit deeper , that was the time for Southgate to look to his bench - not be afraid to replace Kane or Sterling - it doesn’t matter what they have done in previous games but they were out of it but he just seems afraid to take either of them off - and that’s to the team detriment 

And then to bring players just for penalties - madness imo 

England had a great chance to win the whole thing and in the end you could say they bottled it because the manager was afraid to go outside his comfort zone 

It’s an achievement to get to the final and that’s what the record books say but I don’t see them getting another chance again with Southgate in charge , the last two tournaments have been virtually handed to them on a plate and they dropped it.

Mancini is a manager who has his ability at the highest level - Southgate hasnt and imo it shows - the difference between the two teams on Sunday was the tactics employed by the Italians


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## KenL (Jul 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry I will have to disagree

Italy don’t have the likes of Messi etc up front yet they were able to get the best out of their squad

Sancho can’t shine for England when he is sat on the bench but he has played at the highest level in the CL and shown how good a player he is

Southgate had a squad loaded with attacking talent yet started the final with 8 defensive players - they caught Italy on the break and scored earlier , they then controlled the game for a short period until Mancini made some tactical changes with the front three - Southgate didn’t react to that or couldn’t react.

Many other managers made changes early -England had Kane , Sterling , Mount totally out of the game - they offered nothing from 30 mins onwards - when italy were on top he just sat there and watched them dominate , then he made a change that wasn’t going to get them moving forward- after 60 mins and when Italy lost Chiesa they sat a bit deeper , that was the time for Southgate to look to his bench - not be afraid to replace Kane or Sterling - it doesn’t matter what they have done in previous games but they were out of it but he just seems afraid to take either of them off - and that’s to the team detriment

And then to bring players just for penalties - madness imo

England had a great chance to win the whole thing and in the end you could say they bottled it because the manager was afraid to go outside his comfort zone

It’s an achievement to get to the final and that’s what the record books say but I don’t see them getting another chance again with Southgate in charge , the last two tournaments have been virtually handed to them on a plate and they dropped it.

Mancini is a manager who has his ability at the highest level - Southgate hasnt and imo it shows - the difference between the two teams on Sunday was the tactics employed by the Italians
		
Click to expand...

I don't see Southgate as the limiting factor.  Fantastic achievement to get to the final but not enough British players playing in the British leagues at the moment.
Having said that, when the likes of Liverpool (Notts Forest) were dominating Europe, England were not great.
So, in summary, I have no idea.😂


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 14, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			One for Slime or any of the UTD fans.
Do you actually rate Rashford as a player?
Obviously he’s a good person,but personally i don’t rate him & think UTD Will keep him no matter what because he’s good for the image.
		
Click to expand...

Yes we rate him and I would say highly rate him.
He’s obviously still very young and will undoubtedly improve.
Hasn’t really been the same since his bad back last year and I certainly don’t know if that’s the reason.
One thing I would say is I wouldn’t like to see him at any of the other top 5 clubs.
I also think he’s better straight through the middle rather than out left.
Needs to start getting 2 or 3 goals on a regular basis rather than the odd 1 here and there.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 14, 2021)

I think a couple a changes to the starting line up from Sunday for the world cup would reep serious rewards 

Pickford defo 

Back 3 of Gomez maigure and stones 

Wing backs of TAA and saka 

Central midfield of rice and Phillips 

Front 3. Grealish, sterling, Kane 

Now those changes at wing back suddenly look far more attacking almost wingers who can defend


----------



## Slime (Jul 14, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			One for Slime or any of the UTD fans.
Do you actually rate Rashford as a player?
Obviously he’s a good person,but personally i don’t rate him & think UTD Will keep him no matter what because he’s good for the image.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I think he's a terrific player that often lets himself down with a very poor end product.
The more time he has in front of goal, the worse his shot is.
He's an instinctive player with very quick feet ........................... but time and space seems to be his enemy right now.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 14, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes we rate him and I would say highly rate him.
He’s obviously still very young and will undoubtedly improve.
Hasn’t really been the same since his bad back last year and I certainly don’t know if that’s the reason.
One thing I would say is I wouldn’t like to see him at any of the other top 5 clubs.
I also think he’s better straight through the middle rather than out left.
Needs to start getting 2 or 3 goals on a regular basis rather than the odd 1 here and there.
		
Click to expand...

Very tired from doing MPs jobs for them he couldn't focus on his own job. Carrying the nation stop us imploding into a complete cess pool


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## Beezerk (Jul 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I think a couple a changes to the starting line up from Sunday for the world cup would reep serious rewards

Pickford defo

Back 3 of Gomez maigure and stones

Wing backs of TAA and saka

Central midfield of rice and Phillips

Front 3. Grealish, sterling, Kane

Now those changes at wing back suddenly look far more attacking almost wingers who can defend
		
Click to expand...

Bellingham for Phillips would be my choice. I thought Phillips had a blinding tournament but he's very limited with the ball, Rice is only a smidge better mind.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 14, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Bellingham for Phillips would be my choice. I thought Phillips had a blinding tournament but he's very limited with the ball, Rice is only a smidge better mind.
		
Click to expand...

Rice is an outstanding player who will leave us in due course for city, cheslea or utd 

I'm enjoying his fantastic play whilst I can 

Won so many tackles but doesn't go in dirty like some defensive midfielders reads the game well and runs himself to the ground


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## hairball_89 (Jul 14, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes we rate him and I would say highly rate him.
He’s obviously still very young and will undoubtedly improve.
Hasn’t really been the same since his bad back last year and I certainly don’t know if that’s the reason.
*One thing I would say is I wouldn’t like to see him at any of the other top 5 clubs.*
I also think he’s better straight through the middle rather than out left.
Needs to start getting 2 or 3 goals on a regular basis rather than the odd 1 here and there.
		
Click to expand...

This bit jumps out... I'd bloody love him at Anfield. Agree about him through the middle too. Get him in the area and he's deadly when on form. Cracking player.

And I'm annoyed he'll be joined by Sancho too.


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## Kellfire (Jul 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I think a couple a changes to the starting line up from Sunday for the world cup would reep serious rewards

Pickford defo

Back 3 of Gomez maigure and stones

Wing backs of TAA and saka

Central midfield of rice and Phillips

Front 3. Grealish, sterling, Kane

Now those changes at wing back suddenly look far more attacking almost wingers who can defend
		
Click to expand...

You’d drop Shaw? Baffling.


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## sunshine (Jul 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			wingers who can defend
		
Click to expand...

TAA can defend?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Bellingham for Phillips would be my choice. I thought Phillips had a blinding tournament but he's very limited with the ball, Rice is only a smidge better mind.
		
Click to expand...

Yep agree - Bellingham is a superb player , Phillips did well but can see him filtering away now into club football 

Rice - unsure about him , has lots of energy and gets about the pitch just seems to be lacking a touch on the ball - does everything decent but nothing to scare teams - wonder if he will end up being a better CB


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## BiMGuy (Jul 14, 2021)

Full backs these days are better than many of the top wingers from yesteryear. 

I'd be surprised if either Phillips or Rice were replaced with anyone if they continue playing the way they have. Especially if Rice moves to a big club.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2021)

sunshine said:



			TAA can defend?
		
Click to expand...

Yes he can - he is a very good defender


----------



## KenL (Jul 14, 2021)

I thought Sterling was really poor in the final. Am I wrong?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 14, 2021)

KenL said:



			I don't see Southgate as the limiting factor.  Fantastic achievement to get to the final but not enough British players playing in the British leagues at the moment.
Having said that, when the likes of Liverpool (Notts Forest) were dominating Europe, England were not great.
So, in summary, I have no idea.😂
		
Click to expand...

In all honesty Ken, going back years when Forest, Liverpool etc were in there prime. The manager should of been Cloughie. He would of got more out of the players. 
My lad has been talking to a pal he met in Australia he is from Holland.Big Ajax fan. He was saying how a lot of people he has spoken to in Holland were disappointed with England. Apparently they raved about the pace and skill of Sterling, Sancho, Rashford,  Bellingham and that kid from City. He had never heard of Salah.  But hardly saw it. 
Ave asked me lad two questions.
1, would Mancini have got more out of the England squad.
2,would you have Southgate at City.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2021)

sunshine said:



			There is a massive flaw in your argument: England does not have Messi, de Bruyne and Ronaldo up front. I've not seen much of Sancho because I don't watch German football, but he hasn't shone for England the way Saka and Sterling have. Do you think Man U would have spent £70m on him if he was Norwegian? Foden looks neat and tidy but he's not Pedri. Don't fall for the media hype - use your eyes to judge how good the players really are.

Southgate has to work with what he's got.

Lose, learn, win.... this is exactly what Southgate has done. Over the last 20 years, the teams that get to the finals of a world cup or euros are typically teams that can grind out a 1-0 win. Giving talented players carte blanche to play exciting attacking football is rarely successful, look at Netherlands and Belgium.

The England team of the 2000s tried to be exciting and always fell over when they came up against a good team in the knock out stage. There's no point scoring 3 or 4 against Croatia and Czech Rep in the group stage if you then lose against Germany. Southgate oversaw a 2-0 win against Germany - the first time we have beaten a proper top tier side in a KO match since 1996. That is major progress.

I thought England have definitely improved since that world cup semi in 2018. Italy were just better. No managerial lesson from Mancini, just better players on a roll. But this is a young England team and they will improve.
		
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this - I don't think you can go all guns blazing in international football. How did Kevin Keegan do as England manager for example? I thought Southgate's approach was spot on all the way through. Coast through the groups, defeated Germany with a good tactical display, brushed Ukraine aside, came from behind against Denmark showing good resiliency. There was not much to moan about until the latter stages of the final against a very good side, where I think he got the extra time and penalties totally wrong, but hey, he's human.


----------



## harpo_72 (Jul 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry I will have to disagree

Italy don’t have the likes of Messi etc up front yet they were able to get the best out of their squad

Sancho can’t shine for England when he is sat on the bench but he has played at the highest level in the CL and shown how good a player he is

Southgate had a squad loaded with attacking talent yet started the final with 8 defensive players - they caught Italy on the break and scored earlier , they then controlled the game for a short period until Mancini made some tactical changes with the front three - Southgate didn’t react to that or couldn’t react.

Many other managers made changes early -England had Kane , Sterling , Mount totally out of the game - they offered nothing from 30 mins onwards - when italy were on top he just sat there and watched them dominate , then he made a change that wasn’t going to get them moving forward- after 60 mins and when Italy lost Chiesa they sat a bit deeper , that was the time for Southgate to look to his bench - not be afraid to replace Kane or Sterling - it doesn’t matter what they have done in previous games but they were out of it but he just seems afraid to take either of them off - and that’s to the team detriment

And then to bring players just for penalties - madness imo

England had a great chance to win the whole thing and in the end you could say they bottled it because the manager was afraid to go outside his comfort zone

It’s an achievement to get to the final and that’s what the record books say but I don’t see them getting another chance again with Southgate in charge , the last two tournaments have been virtually handed to them on a plate and they dropped it.

Mancini is a manager who has his ability at the highest level - Southgate hasnt and imo it shows - the difference between the two teams on Sunday was the tactics employed by the Italians
		
Click to expand...

I think you have a point, but GS has humility and will learn and develop as a manager. You don’t go and win a final first time unless you are extremely lucky. I hope we see more top performances a progressive build up to domination on the world stage.. we have the players we need to expose them to the big occasions and that could be said about the manager .. don’t change him not now let him build up a head of steam and let the whole group develop as a team … and let’s basque in their success


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm with you on this - I don't think you can go all guns blazing in international football. How did Kevin Keegan do as England manager for example? I thought Southgate's approach was spot on all the way through. Coast through the groups, defeated Germany with a good tactical display, brushed Ukraine aside, came from behind against Denmark showing good resiliency. There was not much to moan about until the latter stages of the final against a very good side, where I think he got the extra time and penalties totally wrong, but hey, he's human.
		
Click to expand...

Playing Walker, Stones, Maguire and Shaw as a back four with anyone of three good defensive midfielders in front is nowhere near all guns blazing. 
All the best teams I have ever seen be it City, Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. Brazil, Holland France and the latest Italy team have one thing in common. They are balanced. Could anyone actually have a discussion saying that England were. What with 6 and 7 defensive players in a team. 
I would go so far to say that Southgate at international level is the same as Mourinho at Spurs and Utd.They are not getting the best out of there teams. Southgate is a far more likeable person though.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 14, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You’d drop Shaw? Baffling.
		
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For a more attacking option of saka there yes


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 14, 2021)

KenL said:



			I thought Sterling was really poor in the final. Am I wrong?
		
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No. Good tournament but was anonymous in the final and should have been subbed off. Same as Kane imo.


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## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep agree - Bellingham is a superb player , Phillips did well but can see him filtering away now into club football

Rice - unsure about him , has lots of energy and gets about the pitch just seems to be lacking a touch on the ball - does everything decent but nothing to scare teams - wonder if he will end up being a better CB
		
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I think Rice is really underrated for the technical side of his game, because he perhaps doesn't always show it. He prefers to keep things simple as a holding player, but if he has to go past players or pick someone out over distance, he is capable of it. Maybe a lack of confidence on the ball, or as I say, just a willingness to keep things simple in his defensive role. I think if and when he does go to a big club, we'll see just how good he can be.


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## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Playing Walker, Stones, Maguire and Shaw as a back four with anyone of three good defensive midfielders in front is nowhere near all guns blazing.
All the best teams I have ever seen be it City, Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. Brazil, Holland France and the latest Italy team have one thing in common. They are balanced. Could anyone actually have a discussion saying that England were. What with 6 and 7 defensive players in a team.
I would go so far to say that Southgate at international level is the same as Mourinho at Spurs and Utd.They are not getting the best out of there teams. Southgate is a far more likeable person though.
		
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It looked balanced enough to me when one wing back assisted the other one for a goal after 2 minutes. Classic revisionism just because we didn't win. This isn't a jab at you, but it seems like a lot of people want him to play Grealish, Foden, Mount, Sancho and Rashford all at once, it's just not possible.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It looked balanced enough to me when one wing back assisted the other one for a goal after 2 minutes. Classic revisionism just because we didn't win. This isn't a jab at you, but it seems like a lot of people want him to play Grealish, Foden, Mount, Sancho and Rashford all at once, it's just not possible.
		
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The issue is he only played one and that one was annoymous throughout the whole game yet still stayed on - same with Kane and Sterling 

There was no need to play a back 5 

Match up Italy 

Pickford 

Walker 
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Rice
Phillips/Henderson 
Mount/Foden

Sancho/Saka
Kane
Sterling 

that line up will provide a solid backline with protection but also provide width and balance in the front 3/4 

Sterling was isolated because Kane kept dropping deep because there was nothing in the middle in front of rice and Phillips 

It’s the set up that Italy did and it worked -


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## Tashyboy (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It looked balanced enough to me when one wing back assisted the other one for a goal after 2 minutes. Classic revisionism just because we didn't win. This isn't a jab at you, but it seems like a lot of people want him to play Grealish, Foden, Mount, Sancho and Rashford all at once, it's just not possible.
		
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But that then for me over balances it the other way in a sense of its to forward based.. Moving forward from this tourname t. Southgate has to look at another style of play. If he sticks with 6 and 7 defensive players. Opponents will have a plan of how to break that down. He needs a good plan B and he needs to be more proactive not reactive During games.


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## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The issue is he only played one and that one was annoymous throughout the whole game yet still stayed on - same with Kane and Sterling

There was no need to play a back 5

Match up Italy

Pickford

Walker
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Rice
Phillips/Henderson
Mount/Foden

Sancho/Saka
Kane
Sterling

that line up will provide a solid backline with protection but also provide width and balance in the front 3/4

Sterling was isolated because Kane kept dropping deep because there was nothing in the middle in front of rice and Phillips

It’s the set up that Italy did and it worked -
		
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You don't know that would have been any better, you're just speculating. Given that our goal was one wing back to the other, we might not have scored at all using that line-up. We might have conceded two before half time with Walker out on the right instead of covering the centre backs. The fact is we have no idea. Southgate has been careful to ensure the squad are well trained in both formations and flexible, so really one should work just as well as the other.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You don't know that would have been any better, you're just speculating. Given that our goal was one wing back to the other, we might not have scored at all using that line-up. We might have conceded two before half time with Walker out on the right instead of covering the centre backs. The fact is we have no idea. Southgate has been careful to ensure the squad are well trained in both formations and flexible, so really one should work just as well as the other.
		
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The point is he didn’t try anything different during the game - he didn’t adjust his tactics , he either froze or was scared to do something different- Mancini made some changes to the way front three set up and it worked it got them into the game and Southgate didn’t react

If playing 8 defensive players had ended up winning the trophy then you can say he got it right , but they didn’t win -it didn’t work - just like in the World Cup there was a lack of ability to get back into the game once the top opposition got on top.

If many could see the issue during the game why couldn’t he or at least try something to get back into it

Southgate didn’t have to go all out but he clearly needed to find a way to get the front three in the game because they were shocking - Kane not one single touch inside the box


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## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The point is he didn’t try anything different during the game - he didn’t adjust his tactics , he either froze or was scared to do something different- Mancini made some changes to the way front three set up and it worked it got them into the game and Southgate didn’t react

If playing 8 defensive players had ended up winning the trophy then you can say he got it right , but they didn’t win -it didn’t work - just like in the World Cup there was a lack of ability to get back into the game once the top opposition got on top.

If many could see the issue during the game why couldn’t he or at least try something to get back into it

Southgate didn’t have to go all out but he clearly needed to find a way to get the front three in the game because they were shocking - Kane not one single touch inside the box
		
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I do agree that all the changes were too late. Especially bringing on two players to take a penalty having not touched the ball, that was dumb. Just bring them on for extra time and try and win it before penalties surely? You still have to say it's the closest we've come in 55 years, and I think we'll only improve at the World Cup.


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## Billysboots (Jul 14, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			One for Slime or any of the UTD fans.
Do you actually rate Rashford as a player?
Obviously he’s a good person,but personally i don’t rate him & think UTD Will keep him no matter what because he’s good for the image.
		
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I’m an Old Trafford regular and I’m afraid my answer has to be that Rashford is massively overrated.

I disagree that his best role is through the middle primarily because his finishing is nowhere near good enough. I’ve probably said so here that, whilst he is capable of the extraordinary, all too often he makes an utter hash of the ordinary. For my money Martial is an infinitely better finisher but his attitude is appalling.

My other beef with Rashford is his wastefulness in possession. Far too often he’ll run into trouble - disappearing down a blind alley of two or three opposing defenders and ending up on his backside rather than taking another option. It’s infuriating to watch. I accept he has been carrying an injury, but no injury impacts on decision making to the extent that the wrong ones are made too often.

I am aware of what the Opta stats tell us, but they don’t tell the full story. He’s nowhere near warranting the tag world class, and was exceptionally lucky to be in the Euro 2020 squad. I hear some ludicrous sums of money being mentioned when transfer fees are being discussed and would gladly see United sell Rashford if the price was right.

Just my opinion as a frustrated United fan.


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## Golfmmad (Jul 14, 2021)

On Monday morning on my way to golf, listening to Talksport, Ally Mcoist and Co were lauding up and waxing lyrical about Italy. Let's not forget, they didn't beat us in 120 mins and their goal was scrappy to say the least.
What they did do well was the high press, which we didn't do enough of. Its how all the top teams play now.
I've just watched Sanchos penalty, he took it well, but the giant keeper went the right way, as he did for Saka's. Unfortunately Rashford missed after sending the keeper the wrong way - so unlike him.
We got to a major final for the first time in 55 years and lost out on penalties.
It's been said that a younger confident footballer has no fear and can handle the pressure. Gareth Southgate trusted and had faith in his players, it could so easily gone our way. 
I think GS is the man to lead us into the World Cup and sure he and all his team have learned so much from Euro 2020.


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## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m an Old Trafford regular and I’m afraid my answer has to be that Rashford is massively overrated.

I disagree that his best role is through the middle primarily because his finishing is nowhere near good enough. I’ve probably said so here that, whilst he is capable of the extraordinary, all too often he makes an utter hash of the ordinary. For my money Martial is an infinitely better finisher but his attitude is appalling.

My other beef with Rashford is his wastefulness in possession. Far too often he’ll run into trouble - disappearing down a blind alley of two or three opposing defenders and ending up on his backside rather than taking another option. It’s infuriating to watch. I accept he has been carrying an injury, but no injury impacts on decision making to the extent that the wrong ones are made too often.

I am aware of what the Opta stats tell us, but they don’t tell the full story. He’s nowhere near warranting the tag world class, and was exceptionally lucky to be in the Euro 2020 squad. I hear some ludicrous sums of money being mentioned when transfer fees are being discussed and would gladly see United sell Rashford if the price was right.

Just my opinion as a frustrated United fan.
		
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I'm not a Utd fan obviously, but that is 100% my impression of Rashford as well. Formerly a striker, now a left-winger because he can't finish consistently but has a trick in the locker and a bit of pace, and that's about it.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm not a Utd fan obviously, but that is 100% my impression of Rashford as well. Formerly a striker, now a left-winger because he can't finish consistently but has a trick in the locker and a bit of pace, and that's about it.
		
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I honestly think that Rashford has never had a manager to show him exactly what he wants. I don’t think he has been properly coached for years. Ave seen him play against City and thought he was world class, in the same half Ave thought he has his boots on the wrong feet.


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## Rlburnside (Jul 14, 2021)

KenL said:



			I thought Sterling was really poor in the final. Am I wrong?
		
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No


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## Billysboots (Jul 14, 2021)

KenL said:



			I thought Sterling was really poor in the final. Am I wrong?
		
Click to expand...

His end product was shocking. Lucky to last 90 minutes, never mind 120.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think Rice is really underrated for the technical side of his game, because he perhaps doesn't always show it. He prefers to keep things simple as a holding player, but if he has to go past players or pick someone out over distance, he is capable of it. Maybe a lack of confidence on the ball, or as I say, just a willingness to keep things simple in his defensive role. I think if and when he does go to a big club, we'll see just how good he can be.
		
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It's frustrating watching him for England

Gets limited to holding.. rather than the box to box he plays for us , only people who understand the game appreciate how good he is at what he does 

Plus they don't go through the trouble of changing his nationality if he is rubbish lol


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## Kellfire (Jul 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			For a more attacking option of saka there yes
		
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I’m guessing you didn’t see Shaw’s contribution.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 15, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I’m guessing you didn’t see Shaw’s contribution.
		
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I did see it but that's not what I was posting at all 

I was saying Southgate gets moaned at for "8 defensive players" a simple change to saka at the back with taa makes that 2 more attacking players..

Also gets grealish (or Sancho) in the team without taking saka out who had a good tournament 

Shaw had a good few games but all our left backs are very good options .. chilwell didn't even get a game and he is an outstanding player.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 15, 2021)

Last three posts talk about about Sterling not playing well in the last game,  but nothing was changed. Rice not playing his normal game, holding rather than box to box. And Chillwell a european cup winner not even getting his boots dirty, in fact trippier being picked over him in the first game. Theres a common denominator in why that happene. 👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 15, 2021)

4 days after the Final and people still doubting Southgate and his selections!! Baffles me! Take a look back pre-comp, apparently some on here were saying we’d struggle to get out the group and if we did we’d have no chance against France, Portugal or Germany

How many tipped Italy to win etc etc, very few were stating how Bellingham or Saka should start, now they’re being lauded as World Class etc.

We know/knew how Southgate sets up, he isn’t suddenly going to change this for qualifiers or comps, he may rest players during qualifiers etc, but I’d seriously suggest not much will change over the next 12 months barring injury, why should it though?

I also believe we aren’t giving the Italians enough credit, to state Gareth should of done this, that or the other, who can say the Italians wouldn’t of changed their tactics to match it?

Having TAA fit, Henderson (both of them) fully fit, and a bit more experience for the youngsters and we’ve got a great squad going forward.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			It's frustrating watching him for England

Gets limited to holding.. rather than the box to box he plays for us , only people who understand the game appreciate how good he is at what he does

Plus they don't go through the trouble of changing his nationality if he is rubbish lol
		
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Really? People having a different option don't understand the game 😂😂😂

He may not be a holding midfielder, but he's definitely a defensive one. 

If we are rating him as Box to box he is poor. 2 goals last year (one a pen) and one an assist. Whilst all b2b are slightly better at one thing than the other, that's a poor return. 

He's final ball isn't good atm, I'd still have him in the England team as he is the best midfielder we have defensively, but I'm not sure if he gets his move he will become an English, Kante, fabinho, Fernandinho.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 15, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Really? People having a different option don't understand the game 😂😂😂

He may not be a holding midfielder, but he's definitely a defensive one.

If we are rating him as Box to box he is poor. 2 goals last year (one a pen) and one an assist. Whilst all b2b are slightly better at one thing than the other, that's a poor return.

He's final ball isn't good atm, I'd still have him in the England team as he is the best midfielder we have defensively, but I'm not sure if he gets his move he will become an English, Kante, fabinho, Fernandinho.
		
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He is defensive but not out and out. As in for England until the final he was litterally break up play. Play it sideways to someone else 

For us he picks a pass or drives it forward to someone in the attacking half

More like the 3 you listed rather than his break up play and then get rid asap backwards or sideways


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## Orikoru (Jul 15, 2021)

England fans really will moan about anything. Two of you mentioned Chilwell not playing - did you not notice that Shaw was pretty our best player across the tournament?? He was incredible!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			It's frustrating watching him for England

Gets limited to holding.. *rather than the box to box he plays for us , only people who understand the game appreciate how good he is at what he does*

Plus they don't go through the trouble of changing his nationality if he is rubbish lol
		
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How often did he play as a “box to box” centre mid in his 130 plus games for West Ham ? Stat wise for a box to box mid they aren’t great 5 goals ( couple of headers from corners ) and 4 assists don’t show a very productive box to box centre mid - players like Gerrard , Lampard , Scholes etc were box to box. 

And if people dont agree with an opinion which is prob tainted by club bias they don’t understand the game ? 

Rice wouldn’t start in mid field for - Liverpool and for City only in a holding role , same at UTD. 

He is a decent player , he looks at the same level of what Dier produced when playing for England.


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## Orikoru (Jul 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How often did he play as a “box to box” centre mid in his 130 plus games for West Ham ? Stat wise for a box to box mid they aren’t great 5 goals ( couple of headers from corners ) and 4 assists don’t show a very productive box to box centre mid - players like Gerrard , Lampard , Scholes etc were box to box.

And if people dont agree with an opinion which is prob tainted by club bias they don’t understand the game ?

Rice wouldn’t start in mid field for - Liverpool and for City only in a holding role , same at UTD.

He is a decent player , he looks at the same level of what Dier produced when playing for England.
		
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I think you're right and wrong in equal measure. I wouldn't describe him as box-to-box either, he's certainly more on the defensive side as a centre mid. He's partnered well with Soucek who gets forward more. But to say he's no better than Dier is absolutely hilarious.   Dier did an ok impression of a holding player when we had no other options, but Rice is levels above him.

He would 100% start for Man Utd, they are crying out for a player like him really. (Obviously Liverpool have Fabinho doing that role, while City have Rodri, so his starts would be more limited there of course.)


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## Tashyboy (Jul 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			England fans really will moan about anything. Two of you mentioned Chilwell not playing - did you not notice that Shaw was pretty our best player across the tournament?? He was incredible!
		
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Especially in the first game 😳😉


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2021)

Think Rice in the final especially did break through the lines forward a few times.
But when he got there the three forwards looked like they were standing in Burtons window.

But my honest opinion of GS is he has blind faith in his system like a lot of other top managers.
He is unwilling to change anything because he thinks he has it right.
That whole forward line in the final should have been changed.
The team actually played well but up front we were crap.
That’s what worries me all that talent on the bench that can totally change a game but it just wasn’t used .


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## Bdill93 (Jul 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think Rice in the final especially did break through the lines forward a few times.
But when he got there the three forwards looked like they were standing in Burtons window.

But my honest opinion of GS is he has blind faith in his system like a lot of other top managers.
He is unwilling to change anything because he thinks he has it right.
That whole forward line in the final should have been changed.
The team actually played well but up front we were crap.
That’s what worries me all that talent on the bench that can totally change a game but it just wasn’t used .
		
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I agree with all of this.

His tactics are poor considering all the attacking talent we have avaliable. Italy have brilliant defence but also attack with flair - no reason why England couldnt do the same other than a manager too stuck in his own ways.

A better manager would have brought football home.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think Rice in the final especially did break through the lines forward a few times.
But when he got there the three forwards looked like they were standing in Burtons window.

*But my honest opinion of GS is he has blind faith in his system like a lot of other top managers.*

_“Surely he’s proved his worth as his system worked.”_

He is unwilling to change anything because he thinks he has it right.


*That whole forward line in the final should have been changed.*

_When? And how do you know bringing on these “untried” players would of worked?_

*The team actually played well but up front we were crap.*

_You can’t have one without the other, the “team” was 11 players trying their hardest and if forwards don’t get the service, you have to ask why!_

*That’s what worries me all that talent on the bench that can totally change a game but it just wasn’t used.*

_Can you show any examples of any game anywhere, anytime when players of that limited experience have done that?_

Click to expand...

See above.


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## KenL (Jul 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I agree with all of this.

His tactics are poor considering all the attacking talent we have avaliable. Italy have brilliant defence but also attack with flair - no reason why England couldnt do the same other than a manager too stuck in his own ways.

A better manager would have brought football home.
		
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Need to drop that ridiculous phrase. 🙄


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## Bdill93 (Jul 15, 2021)

KenL said:



			Need to drop that ridiculous phrase. 🙄
		
Click to expand...

No we dont. This is the home of football. Just like Scotland is the home of golf.


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## ger147 (Jul 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			No we dont. This is the home of football. Just like Scotland is the home of golf.
		
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## Bdill93 (Jul 15, 2021)

ger147 said:



View attachment 37583

Click to expand...

How did scotland get on?


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## fundy (Jul 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			How did scotland get on? 

Click to expand...


They beat England 0-0 in their final, keep up


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## BiMGuy (Jul 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			They beat England 0-0 in their final, keep up 

Click to expand...

They absolutely weren't the 4th worst team in the tournament.


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## ger147 (Jul 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			How did scotland get on? 

Click to expand...

We beat England on penalties, had pizza and got pissed on Peroni


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## larmen (Jul 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			How did scotland get on? 

Click to expand...

Just the same as England, Germany, Spain, … . Went there, didn’t win it. Better than Norway, for example, which didn’t even qualify.
But worse than Italy who won it.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think you're right and wrong in equal measure. I wouldn't describe him as box-to-box either, he's certainly more on the defensive side as a centre mid. He's partnered well with Soucek who gets forward more. But to say he's no better than Dier is absolutely hilarious.   Dier did an ok impression of a holding player when we had no other options, but Rice is levels above him.

He would 100% start for Man Utd, they are crying out for a player like him really. (Obviously Liverpool have Fabinho doing that role, while City have Rodri, so his starts would be more limited there of course.)
		
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He would walk in the untied team

Would replace kante long term

I think his destination is city when fernandiho contract is up next season.

Fans get too drawn into stats fornals for example fans didn't rate because he didn't score or assist much but he does so much work and plays the pass before the assist which is never picked up in "stats"

Also rice is 10 times what dier is lol only a fool would think otherwise


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			No we dont. This is the home of football. Just like Scotland is the home of golf.
		
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Tell me where the first International football match was played please.
I shall give you a clue...it was not England.


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## KenL (Jul 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			No we dont. This is the home of football. Just like Scotland is the home of golf.
		
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Can you not see that it makes England look like arrogant idiots?
Wherever the game was invented or not, it's not a good look. Sorry about that. I'm a Scottish Brit and love the UK with a passion but the "coming home" thing is embarrassing.


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## KenL (Jul 15, 2021)

Maybe not coming home after all!


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## Bdill93 (Jul 15, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Tell me where the first International football match was played please.
I shall give you a clue...it was not England.
		
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Just like me claiming the TV was invented by an Englishman - because he lived in England 




KenL said:



			Can you not see that it makes England look like arrogant idiots?
Wherever the game was invented or not, it's not a good look. Sorry about that. I'm a Scottish Brit and love the UK with a passion but the "coming home" thing is embarrassing.
		
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I honestly do not care what everyone else thinks of us. England is the home of football. 

Its a song of hope. Get over it 





KenL said:



			Maybe not coming home after all!
	View attachment 37584

Click to expand...


Also if were reaaally getting in to this - China - Its coming home next year! https://www.footballhistory.org/


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 15, 2021)

This is why it was a good reason to have 1 thread per season, season end’s, close it.

New season, new thread, stops all the close season drivel.


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## toyboy54 (Jul 15, 2021)

KenL said:



			Can you not see that it makes England look like arrogant idiots?
Wherever the game was invented or not, it's not a good look. Sorry about that. I'm a Scottish Brit and love the UK with a passion but the "coming home" thing is embarrassing.
		
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Went home---TO ROME


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## Orikoru (Jul 15, 2021)

https://thepfsa.co.uk/football-hist...igins began in,for the sport, was established.

_THE CONTEMPORARY HISTORY: WHERE & WHEN WAS FOOTBALL INVENTED?
*Football’s modern origins began in England* more than 100 years ago, in 1863. Rugby football and association football, once the same thing, went their separate ways and the Football Association, the first official governing body for the sport, was established._


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## Bdill93 (Jul 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			This is why it was a good reason to have 1 thread per season, season end’s, close it.

New season, new thread, stops all the close season drivel.
		
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But Transfer season!!!!


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## RichA (Jul 15, 2021)

KenL said:



			Can you not see that it makes England look like arrogant idiots?
Wherever the game was invented or not, it's not a good look. Sorry about that. I'm a Scottish Brit and love the UK with a passion but the "coming home" thing is embarrassing.
		
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It's a popular and catchy tongue in cheek song written by a couple of comedians lamenting England's persistent failure since 1966. 
Is it more or less embarrassing than an anthem about a military victory 700 years ago?


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## Foxholer (Jul 15, 2021)

KenL said:



			Can you not see that it makes England look like arrogant idiots?
...
		
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Pretty appropriate - on many occasions - then!


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## arnieboy (Jul 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			But Transfer season!!!!
		
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So can we move on from England,  Scotland  etc. and focus on who Spurs are signing.....


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## SteveW86 (Jul 15, 2021)

Poch's time at Spurs is really paying off.......managed to bring in some cracking free transfers at PSG.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 15, 2021)

RichA said:



			It's a popular and catchy tongue in cheek song written by a couple of comedians lamenting England's persistent failure since 1966.
Is it more or less embarrassing than an anthem about a military victory 700 years ago?
		
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You are kidding, they could not even get the three leopards on a shirt bit right.
From two university educated  'comedians' as well


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## Orikoru (Jul 15, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			So can we move on from England,  Scotland  etc. and focus on who Spurs are signing.....
		
Click to expand...

Everyone and no one as usual.


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## KenL (Jul 15, 2021)

RichA said:



			It's a popular and catchy tongue in cheek song written by a couple of comedians lamenting England's persistent failure since 1966.
Is it more or less embarrassing than an anthem about a military victory 700 years ago?
		
Click to expand...

I get that. Flower of Scotland is a total embarrassment to me.
Catchy, yes,  but to be bombarded with it from all angles is so OTT. Can't help the England team either.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			See above.
		
Click to expand...

“ you won’t win anything with kids”
Famous quote from Alan Hansen on MOTD just before Man Utd won the league.

That forward line was possibly the worst display I have ever seen in an England team.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 15, 2021)

KenL said:



			I get that. Flower of Scotland is a total embarrassment to me.
Catchy, yes,  but to be bombarded with it from all angles is so OTT. Can't help the England team either.
		
Click to expand...

Flower of Scotland as it is these days ‘brayed‘ is pretty grim…that never used to be the case when it was sung gently and movingly by the audience at Corries concerts back in the mid-70s (I went to a few back then) …as originally written and sung by the Corries, it is a beautiful and moving lament about the loss of the country despite the sacrifices of so many over the centuries.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			“ you won’t win anything with kids”
Famous quote from Alan Hansen on MOTD just before Man Utd won the league.

That forward line was possibly the worst display I have ever seen in an England team.
		
Click to expand...

And absolutely no proof, taking Kane and Sterling off would of made a difference! 

How would of their replacements got the ball? They would still of gotten no service.

By the way, your quote is irrelevant, the age of the Subs is meaningless, they were selected due to ability, not age.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 15, 2021)

Are we all done yet? 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2021)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ixtures-2021-22-full-schedule-every-team/amp/

Premier League Fixtures 21/22 Season


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 15, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Are we all done yet? 👍
		
Click to expand...

Yes.😬


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## Fade and Die (Jul 15, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Flower of Scotland as it is these days ‘brayed‘ is pretty grim…that never used to be the case when it was sung gently and movingly by the audience at Corries concerts back in the mid-70s (I went to a few back then) …as originally written and sung by the Corries, it is a beautiful and moving lament about the loss of the country despite the sacrifices of so many over the centuries.







Click to expand...


To my ears that sound just as dirgeful as any other rendition. It’s just got a mandolin playing under it. Terrible stuff! 😖


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			And absolutely no proof, taking Kane and Sterling off would of made a difference!

How would of their replacements got the ball? They would still of gotten no service.

By the way, your quote is irrelevant, the age of the Subs is meaningless, they were selected due to ability, not age.
		
Click to expand...

The service was there but the movement from the front three was abysmal
Yes but my point is that Ability wasn’t used!
Kane and Sterling to big to substitute no matter how crap they play?
As for making a difference we will never know if he dosnt do it ,but can’t have been worse.
All about the penalty takers and Kane’s one.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Are we all done yet? 👍
		
Click to expand...

I am .


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## Tashyboy (Jul 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			This is why it was a good reason to have 1 thread per season, season end’s, close it.

New season, new thread, stops all the close season drivel.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah when is Amanda starting next years thread, so we can start talking rammel again. Clubs have already started signing players.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 15, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Yeah when is Amanda starting next years thread, so we can start talking rammel again. Clubs have already started signing players.
		
Click to expand...

Any City fan will do, can’t be that hard to find one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Yeah when is Amanda starting next years thread, so we can start talking rammel again. Clubs have already started signing players.
		
Click to expand...

Why the need to start a new thread 🤷‍♂️ 

The title and the first page were changed to allow all the football chat to stay within one thread - nice and clean and simple then


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## Tashyboy (Jul 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Any City fan will do, can’t be that hard to find one.

Click to expand...

😂😂 nah Amanda has already been nominated. Anyway my opening post would be to long 😁


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 16, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			To my ears that sound just as dirgeful as any other rendition. It’s just got a mandolin playing under it. Terrible stuff! 😖
		
Click to expand...

Nothing like how it is aggressively bawled out these days at football and rugby matches.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 16, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			😂😂 nah Amanda has already been nominated. Anyway my opening post would be to long 😁
		
Click to expand...

I did mention it many posts ago but LP amended this one instead. I'm more than happy to start a new one and put the Euros behind us if the thread stalwarts deem it acceptable


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## Tashyboy (Jul 16, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I did mention it many posts ago but LP amended this one instead. I'm more than happy to start a new one and put the Euros behind us if the thread stalwarts deem it acceptable 

Click to expand...

Only right a fan of the champs😉 starts the next seasons thread like last year. 👍😁 Ave a feeling it’s gonna be a very tough season for City to retain the title.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 16, 2021)

Here we go folks. New season, new hope.
https://www.premierleague.com/news/2171434


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 16, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I did mention it many posts ago but LP amended this one instead. I'm more than happy to start a new one and put the Euros behind us if the thread stalwarts deem it acceptable 

Click to expand...

Apolgies Amanda, I’ve jumped the gun, no reason why we shouldn’t have a PL thread, we’ve traditionally done it over the last 5-8yrs and we know how us golfers like tradition.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Apolgies Amanda, I’ve jumped the gun, no reason why we shouldn’t have a PL thread, we’ve traditionally done it over the last 5-8yrs and we know how us golfers like tradition.

Click to expand...

Apart from when it comes to socks 😁


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 16, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			To my ears that sound just as dirgeful as any other rendition. It’s just got a mandolin playing under it. Terrible stuff! 😖
		
Click to expand...

Nonsense it a beautiful tune, sung like Hogan says as a lament. [sad song remembering the dead] 
The Corries [3 of them in those days] used to pack out the Usher Hall in Edinburgh in my pre 1970's visits.
Traditional folk music was very popular then and The Corries were a class act.


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## Bdill93 (Jul 16, 2021)

You can get that filth off gone!

It'll be claret and blue next year!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You can get that filth off gone!

It'll be claret and blue next year! 

Click to expand...

No chance of West Ham winning the PL


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## Bdill93 (Jul 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			No chance of West Ham winning the PL

Click to expand...

I totally agree! 

Aston Villa on the other hand!!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2021)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/57836300.amp

Messi taking a wage cut to stay at Barcelona who need to reduce their wage bill by £500mil !!!

Messi will go from £120mil a year to just the £60mil !

Players like Greizmann are also on nearly £1mil a week - no wonder they are in huge money issues 

Can’t register their new signings until they reduce that wage bill - some great players can be got


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## Slime (Jul 16, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



*Only right a fan of the champs😉 starts the next seasons thread* like last year. 👍😁 Ave a feeling it’s gonna be a very tough season for City to retain the title.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't know Amanda was Italian!


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## Bdill93 (Jul 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/57836300.amp

Messi taking a wage cut to stay at Barcelona who need to reduce their wage bill by £500mil !!!

Messi will go from £120mil a year to just the £60mil !

Players like Greizmann are also on nearly £1mil a week - no wonder they are in huge money issues

Can’t register their new signings until they reduce that wage bill - some great players can be got
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely crazy. How they made these business decisions ill never know - you'd think they would have better control of finanaces


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Absolutely crazy. How they made these business decisions ill never know - you'd think they would have better control of finanaces 

Click to expand...

There has been a lot of financial doping by them - big sponserships , handouts from governments , the media rights etc in La Liga are very unbalanced with Madrid and Barce getting the bigger shares. Madrid are in the same sort of financial problems but they will prob bring in some big players - same with PSG

It will amaze me how many clubs will spend some big money when they clubs don’t make huge profits and Covid has reduced the level of commercial income - how will City spend £200mil on Grealish and Kane or Chelsea spend £150mil on Haaland ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 16, 2021)

Basically, we have to post a number of times in order to get to page 2 and be past the picture .

Transfer talk, nothing really happening so far. At Everton Rodriguez is likely to go along with other fringe players. We are looking at a CH, we have lots already , and hopefully Dumfries (Netherlands) looks like he might be coming to us. We still need more creativity in the middle however along with a forward to either support DCL, replace him when tired or out of form. Mutterings of Richarlison to follow Ancelotti to Real. I can live with that if we get a chunk of money and can then get a replacement.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/57836300.amp

Messi taking a wage cut to stay at Barcelona who need to reduce their wage bill by £500mil !!!

Messi will go from £120mil a year to just the £60mil !

Players like Greizmann are also on nearly £1mil a week - no wonder they are in huge money issues

Can’t register their new signings until they reduce that wage bill - *some great players can be got*

Click to expand...

This with knobs on. Everton have a good relationship with Barcelona so I am hoping that we can pick up some fringe players that they need to offload. If clubs box clever they could do well out of this.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This with knobs on. Everton have a good relationship with Barcelona so I am hoping that we can pick up some fringe players that they need to offload. If clubs box clever they could do well out of this.
		
Click to expand...

The big one is Pedri - a year left of his contract , can’t give him a new one yet , players like Dembele , Greizmann , Coutinho , Pjanic , Roberto , Umtti 

Can prob get any of them apart from Messi - madness at the club


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## Piece (Jul 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/57836300.amp

Messi taking a wage cut to stay at Barcelona who need to reduce their wage bill by £500mil !!!

Messi will go from £120mil a year to just the £60mil !

Players like Greizmann are also on nearly £1mil a week - no wonder they are in huge money issues

Can’t register their new signings until they reduce that wage bill - some great players can be got
		
Click to expand...

Superleague anyone to help Barca pay their bills!?


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## Piece (Jul 16, 2021)

More than happy to be back on this thread! 

The other one can be Euros + LFC one 

At Watford, we are turning into Nigeria B-team. The only signing of note so far is Josh King from Everton. The rest have been minors. July has to be a good month, otherwise we are bottom one fodder.


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## Orikoru (Jul 16, 2021)

What was the point of renaming the other thread to Football Thread if we were just going to make a new thread? Absolutely pointless. Also we changed it from Premier League to Football Thread because people were stupidly moaning about Champions League or International discussions cropping up.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What was the point of renaming the other thread to Football Thread if we were just going to make a new thread? Absolutely pointless. Also we changed it from Premier League to Football Thread because people were stupidly moaning about Champions League or International discussions cropping up.
		
Click to expand...

The name is irrelevant, the threads get too big and go on and on, we’ve had a seperate PL thread for the last 8yrs and never been an issue.

I’ve got no problem if the mods wish to delete or merge this thread, but if they decide, can we merge the Scottish Football Thread and the other Football threads that are currently open?


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## Tashyboy (Jul 16, 2021)

Slime said:



			I didn't know Amanda was Italian!
		
Click to expand...

We have links to Roberto Mancini aka Bobby Manc 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What was the point of renaming the other thread to Football Thread if we were just going to make a new thread? Absolutely pointless. Also we changed it from Premier League to Football Thread because people were stupidly moaning about Champions League or International discussions cropping up.
		
Click to expand...

As you say over the last couple of years the threads evolved to become more than just the premier league and it became a thread for all football talk - internationals , CL etc without the need to start multiple threads and keep it all in one place.


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## Bdill93 (Jul 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There has been a lot of financial doping by them - big sponserships , handouts from governments , the media rights etc in La Liga are very unbalanced with Madrid and Barce getting the bigger shares. Madrid are in the same sort of financial problems but they will prob bring in some big players - same with PSG

It will amaze me how many clubs will spend some big money when they clubs don’t make huge profits and Covid has reduced the level of commercial income - how will *City spend £200mil on Grealish and Kane* or Chelsea spend £150mil on Haaland ?
		
Click to expand...

Simple answer - they wont. City simply dont spend that much on individual players! Cheslea can - and probably will! 

At what point will these giant spanish teams fall apart is the question on my mind..


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Simple answer - they wont. City simply dont spend that much on individual players! Cheslea can - and probably will!

At what point will these giant spanish teams fall apart is the question on my mind..
		
Click to expand...

Pep was stating recently that they are getting priced out of players -players like Haaland etc are going to go for big fees , we can’t afford them and i suspect City don’t want to pay that level but if they want Grealish etc or a replacement for Aguero then it’s going to cost 

The Spanish teams always seem to find a way out - currently Barce are £900mil in debt , Madrid just a touch less - UEFA rules shouldn’t allow that level of debt on clubs


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## Fade and Die (Jul 16, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Nonsense it a beautiful tune, sung like Hogan says as a lament. [sad song remembering the dead] 
The Corries [3 of them in those days] used to pack out the Usher Hall in Edinburgh in my pre 1970's visits.
Traditional folk music was very popular then and The Corries were a class act.
		
Click to expand...


Which is pretty much exactly how I described it. Dirgeful. A lament for the dead. 

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/dirgeful


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## Orikoru (Jul 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The name is irrelevant, the threads get too big and go on and on, we’ve had a seperate PL thread for the last 8yrs and never been an issue.

I’ve got no problem if the mods wish to delete or merge this thread, but if they decide, can we merge the Scottish Football Thread and the other Football threads that are currently open?
		
Click to expand...

How's it too big, there are at least two other active threads with more pages. 

Scottish football can still have it's own thread because most of us don't care about that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			How's it too big, there are at least two other active threads with more pages.

Scottish football can still have it's own thread because most of us don't care about that. 

Click to expand...

Gets too big I said! 

Anyway, let the mods decide, I can’t delete the thread as it’s against forum rules.

Fresh season, fresh start.

I look forward to you moaning about the next SPOTY or Masters Thread etc.


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## Orikoru (Jul 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Gets too big I said!

Anyway, let the mods decide, I can’t delete the thread as it’s against forum rules.

Fresh season, fresh start.

I look forward to you moaning about the next SPOTY or Masters Thread etc.

Click to expand...

What the hell is a spotty thread?   It's a bit different as the Masters doesn't actually go on all year round, but whatever.


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## Piece (Jul 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The name is irrelevant, the threads get too big and go on and on, we’ve had a seperate PL thread for the last 8yrs and never been an issue.

I’ve got no problem if the mods wish to delete or merge this thread, but if they decide, can we *merge the Scottish Football Thread and the other Football threads* that are currently open?
		
Click to expand...

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What the hell is a spotty thread?   It's a bit different as the Masters doesn't actually go on all year round, but whatever.
		
Click to expand...

Read slower, it helps.

The Length of time is irrelevant, it’s still the same event, the Premier League 2021/22 is only 1 event.


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## fundy (Jul 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The big one is Pedri - a year left of his contract , can’t give him a new one yet , players like Dembele , Greizmann , Coutinho , Pjanic , Roberto , Umtti 

Can prob get any of them apart from Messi - madness at the club
		
Click to expand...

Similar chatter about Madrid, that they need to trim some of their earners to enable them to make the signings they want. Wouldnt object if it meant they wanted us to take Odegaard on the cheap


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 16, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Nonsense it a beautiful tune, sung like Hogan says as a lament. [sad song remembering the dead]
The Corries [3 of them in those days] used to pack out the Usher Hall in Edinburgh in my pre 1970's visits.
Traditional folk music was very popular then and The Corries were a class act.
		
Click to expand...

I went to see them a few times in Glasgow City Halls in mid-70s as their popularity really exploded. Roy Williamson sadly gone and missed.  Really loved it when the audience started singing along actually quite gently.  It got more rumbustious as the songs popularity spread - and by late 1970s it was a standard for the post-Murrayfield pub singalong (Deacon Brodies and The Last Drop being my main stops).  As for trad Folk music popularity in mid-70s - loved the Scottish Fiddle Orchestra - some here won’t get that music either…philistines 😻😉

Anyway - a digression from examining the belly button fluff of English football 😉


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Simple answer - they wont. City simply dont spend that much on individual players! Cheslea can - and probably will!

At what point will these giant spanish teams fall apart is the question on my mind..
		
Click to expand...

That’s already happening imo.
They dominate domestically but in Europe they are not what they used to be.


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## Fade and Die (Jul 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I totally agree! 

Aston Villa on the other hand!!!! 

Click to expand...


More chance of Scunthorpe winning it!😆


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## GreiginFife (Jul 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Absolutely crazy. How they made these business decisions ill never know - you'd think they would have better control of finanaces 

Click to expand...

In Spain it works very differently to the UK with clubs being (for the most part) member owned and run. Real and Barca have Presidents that, IMO, hold large amounts of sporting and political sway and so they make outrageous promises in order to be elected. This has been going on for a long time with Laporte (returning, incoming Barca president) and Perez (Real president).

Real's Galacticos were a two-fold product of over ambition by the president (Perez again at the time) promising a "marquee signing" every year (remember they got Beckham for c. £35m) and overly generous government funding (Real being the "King's club"). 

Barca on the other hand have always had a bizarre commercial operating structure with the club carrying no shirt sponsor until 2006 (I think) when they entered a "reverse" sponsorship with Unicef and a little later a "normal" arrangement with Qatar Airways. They always relied on commercial revenue of merchandise, season tickets, membership payments and television rights. 

The fact that the presidents hold so much sway is evident in what Phil describes in that the TV revenue is not distributed evenly with Barca and Real taking the lion's share. 

Barca, in my opinion, lost their way with their scouting network and failure to capitalise on La Masia more and trying to follow the more "European" model of buying talent and then watching it go wrong. Overpaying for Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann and not seeing the levels of return. Barca's most successful years saw La Masia players dominate their squads. 

They also have appointed the wrong person in Koeman to take them forward IMO and their managerial appointments since Enrique (ok Valverde did alright) have been cost over quality (this constant hope that Xavi is going to return and save them because Pep and Luis did so) and have seen regression instead of progress. 

Directorial moves, mainly losing Txiki Begiristain to Man City (no coincidence their recruitment improved around the same time Barca's went downhill) and years of board room feuding have cost them and forced the need to chase "marquee" signings and pay way over the odds. 

Real will always have the backing of the government when they need it (sell a car-park for 200 times it's worth to the local council for example) or have debts mysteriously "cancelled"... 

I for one would like to see the financial plight of Barca force them to start relying on the undoubted talent of La Masia graduates (Pedri, Puig, Fati and Collado for example) and hopefully get rid of Koeman and get back to playing fast, free flowing football that we know them for.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 16, 2021)

Call it what you like, it will still have the same people having the same arguments and going the same way.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			How's it too big, there are at least two other active threads with more pages.

Scottish football can still have it's own thread because *most of us don't care about that*. 

Click to expand...

It's only a matter of time before this becomes the Liverpool thread with intervals of Everton/Liverpool "banter" and then everyone can not care.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 16, 2021)

New Season,New thread 🤷‍♂️
How it should be IMO


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2021)

Blimey - didn’t realise some were so precious about a thread - Mods - no issues if you wish to close the football thread to allow a new football thread to start 👍


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## Bdill93 (Jul 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s already happening imo.
They dominate domestically but in Europe they are not what they used to be.
		
Click to expand...

You arent wrong, European dominance has slowed since Real last won it! Liverpool, Bayern, Chelsea since!



GreiginFife said:



			In Spain it works very differently to the UK with clubs being (for the most part) member owned and run. Real and Barca have Presidents that, IMO, hold large amounts of sporting and political sway and so they make outrageous promises in order to be elected. This has been going on for a long time with Laporte (returning, incoming Barca president) and Perez (Real president).

Real's Galacticos were a two-fold product of over ambition by the president (Perez again at the time) promising a "marquee signing" every year (remember they got Beckham for c. £35m) and overly generous government funding (Real being the "King's club").

Barca on the other hand have always had a bizarre commercial operating structure with the club carrying no shirt sponsor until 2006 (I think) when they entered a "reverse" sponsorship with Unicef and a little later a "normal" arrangement with Qatar Airways. They always relied on commercial revenue of merchandise, season tickets, membership payments and television rights.

The fact that the presidents hold so much sway is evident in what Phil describes in that the TV revenue is not distributed evenly with Barca and Real taking the lion's share.

Barca, in my opinion, lost their way with their scouting network and failure to capitalise on La Masia more and trying to follow the more "European" model of buying talent and then watching it go wrong. Overpaying for Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann and not seeing the levels of return. Barca's most successful years saw La Masia players dominate their squads.

They also have appointed the wrong person in Koeman to take them forward IMO and their managerial appointments since Enrique (ok Valverde did alright) have been cost over quality (this constant hope that Xavi is going to return and save them because Pep and Luis did so) and have seen regression instead of progress.

Directorial moves, mainly losing Txiki Begiristain to Man City (no coincidence their recruitment improved around the same time Barca's went downhill) and years of board room feuding have cost them and forced the need to chase "marquee" signings and pay way over the odds.

Real will always have the backing of the government when they need it (sell a car-park for 200 times it's worth to the local council for example) or have debts mysteriously "cancelled"...

I for one would like to see the financial plight of Barca force them to start relying on the undoubted talent of La Masia graduates (Pedri, Puig, Fati and Collado for example) and hopefully get rid of Koeman and get back to playing fast, free flowing football that we know them for.
		
Click to expand...

Still - they should employ (and im sure they do, but obviously yes men) financial controllers who say no once and a while! How they can go so far into a deficit is shocking management


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## Bdill93 (Jul 16, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			More chance of Scunthorpe winning it!😆
		
Click to expand...

Up the Scunny!


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## GreiginFife (Jul 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You arent wrong, European dominance has slowed since Real last won it! Liverpool, Bayern, Chelsea since!



Still - they should employ (and im sure they do, but obviously yes men) financial controllers who say no once and a while! How they can go so far into a deficit is shocking management
		
Click to expand...

Thing is, (well for Barca anyway) until last year or so, it's not been a problem. But you want to hang on to your presidency and the power that brings, you don't surround yourself with overly capable people. Whether that makes financial sense or not.


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## nickjdavis (Jul 16, 2021)

I predict a season of under-ambition for Newcastle.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 16, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			I predict a season of under-ambition for Newcastle.
		
Click to expand...

Does that really count as a prediction?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey - didn’t realise some were so precious about a thread - Mods - no issues if you wish to close the football thread to allow a new football thread to start 👍
		
Click to expand...

Well Mods LP’s given his approval 😂


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## AmandaJR (Jul 16, 2021)

My main contribution will to ensure this appears on every page


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 16, 2021)

😱😱😱


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			Similar chatter about Madrid, that they need to trim some of their earners to enable them to make the signings they want. Wouldnt object if it meant they wanted us to take Odegaard on the cheap
		
Click to expand...

Must have lost a lot recently with Ronaldo and then Ramos - so not sure who are their big earners these days ? Benzema 🤷‍♂️

Would certainly take Odegaard - not sure what’s happened with Isco


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## KenL (Jul 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/57836300.amp

Messi taking a wage cut to stay at Barcelona who need to reduce their wage bill by £500mil !!!

Messi will go from £120mil a year to just the £60mil !

Players like Greizmann are also on nearly £1mil a week - no wonder they are in huge money issues

Can’t register their new signings until they reduce that wage bill - some great players can be got
		
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Absolutely disgusting.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2021)

KenL said:



			Absolutely disgusting.
		
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That’s the sort of money the top sporting stars get paid - the sums in US sports are even worse and then of course some of the top golfers are up there


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			In Spain it works very differently to the UK with clubs being (for the most part) member owned and run. Real and Barca have Presidents that, IMO, hold large amounts of sporting and political sway and so they make outrageous promises in order to be elected. This has been going on for a long time with Laporte (returning, incoming Barca president) and Perez (Real president).

Real's Galacticos were a two-fold product of over ambition by the president (Perez again at the time) promising a "marquee signing" every year (remember they got Beckham for c. £35m) and overly generous government funding (Real being the "King's club").

Barca on the other hand have always had a bizarre commercial operating structure with the club carrying no shirt sponsor until 2006 (I think) when they entered a "reverse" sponsorship with Unicef and a little later a "normal" arrangement with Qatar Airways. They always relied on commercial revenue of merchandise, season tickets, membership payments and television rights.

The fact that the presidents hold so much sway is evident in what Phil describes in that the TV revenue is not distributed evenly with Barca and Real taking the lion's share.

Barca, in my opinion, lost their way with their scouting network and failure to capitalise on La Masia more and trying to follow the more "European" model of buying talent and then watching it go wrong. Overpaying for Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann and not seeing the levels of return. Barca's most successful years saw La Masia players dominate their squads.

They also have appointed the wrong person in Koeman to take them forward IMO and their managerial appointments since Enrique (ok Valverde did alright) have been cost over quality (this constant hope that Xavi is going to return and save them because Pep and Luis did so) and have seen regression instead of progress.

Directorial moves, mainly losing Txiki Begiristain to Man City (no coincidence their recruitment improved around the same time Barca's went downhill) and years of board room feuding have cost them and forced the need to chase "marquee" signings and pay way over the odds.

Real will always have the backing of the government when they need it (sell a car-park for 200 times it's worth to the local council for example) or have debts mysteriously "cancelled"...

I for one would like to see the financial plight of Barca force them to start relying on the undoubted talent of La Masia graduates (Pedri, Puig, Fati and Collado for example) and hopefully get rid of Koeman and get back to playing fast, free flowing football that we know them for.
		
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I’m surprised that Laporte didn’t bring in Xavi this summer but then I think he would stay away 

When you look at the level of debt Barce have its criminal when you think of those clubs that have gone bust because of debt at a fraction of that level


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## GreiginFife (Jul 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m surprised that Laporte didn’t bring in Xavi this summer but then I think he would stay away

When you look at the level of debt Barce have its criminal when you think of those clubs that have gone bust because of debt at a fraction of that level
		
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Its all relative. Barca have the commercial ability to maintain, if not improve, the debt levels. The clubs that went busy simply didn't. Barca need to lower wage bills and/or sell _to bring new players in_ but could quite easily play this season with the same squad minus those already gone. 

Barca are simply paying the price in the short term of poor buying of players at over inflated prices. They can weather the storm and cut some losses in Pjanic, Coutinho, Trincao (out on loan), Dembele and Griezmann. If they don't move these players on soon then it might become a different outlook. 

Laporte has every intention of bringing Xavi in, its a timing issue now as he (Xavi) still feels he is learning his trade but Laporte is pointing him to Pep and Luis as examples of minimum experience but absolute DNA. And in Catalonia, DNA is far more prized than mere experience. 

There is an opportunity for someone to snap up Sergi Roberto on the cheap and that is one of the many crimes that will be committed through this period (in the opinion of this former Penà member). 

Someone asked earlier about Real's big earners, you have Kroos, Modric, Benzema, Casemiro, Vinicius Jr all on heftier wages than you'd probably imagine.

Lots of the young South Americans at Real are brought in on small transfer feea (relatively) with the promise of big money in wages.


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## fundy (Jul 17, 2021)

great to hear Raul Jiminez is back playing for Wolves today in their pre season game


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## pauljames87 (Jul 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			great to hear Raul Jiminez is back playing for Wolves today in their pre season game
		
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Will he be able to be the same force as before with his head injury, I hope it doesn't put him off going for the ball because he was outstanding


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 18, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Basically, we have to post a number of times in order to get to page 2 and be past the picture .

Transfer talk, nothing really happening so far. At Everton Rodriguez is likely to go along with other fringe players. We are looking at a CH, we have lots already , and hopefully Dumfries (Netherlands) looks like he might be coming to us. We still need more creativity in the middle however along with a forward to either support DCL, replace him when tired or out of form. Mutterings of Richarlison to follow Ancelotti to Real. I can live with that if we get a chunk of money and can then get a replacement.
		
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Goodison is going to be half empty if all the Evertonions who don’t like Raffa go through with their threat of not going the match.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Goodison is going to be half empty if all the Evertonions who don’t like Raffa go through with their threat of not going the match.
		
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Not likely as we’ve recorded record Season Ticket sales.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Goodison is going to be half empty if all the Evertonions who don’t like Raffa go through with their threat of not going the match.
		
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As Paul has mentioned,  30,000 season tickets sold this year. Phone ins and social media may be full of angry people but they are only a tiny cross section. Saying that, if we don't start well then the atmosphere will get unpleasant quite quickly. I said it at the time, strange decision 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 18, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57873034

£50mil 😳 that’s a mental price for him


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## Dando (Jul 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s the sort of money the top sporting stars get paid - the sums in US sports are even worse and then of course some of the top golfers are up there
		
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not sure you can compare the top golfers to footballers. Ok they get decent sponsorship/appearance money but they still need to perform well every week to earn more whereas footballers are guaranteed their money


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## fundy (Jul 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57873034

£50mil 😳 that’s a mental price for him
		
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its worse when you realise it means both mavropanos and saliba are being sent out on loan again and not given an opportunity. saliba cost nearly 30m and will spend his first 2 1/2 yrs out on loan lol

i assume if were spending 50m on one centre half we have a lot more money than thought to address the areas of real concern, ie midfield, RB and another keeper

clubs must salivate when arsenal are interested in their players


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 18, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As Paul has mentioned,  30,000 season tickets sold this year. Phone ins and social media may be full of angry people but they are only a tiny cross section. Saying that, if we don't start well then the atmosphere will get unpleasant quite quickly. I said it at the time, strange decision 🤷‍♂️
		
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Tounge in cheek.
They are saying that but know full well they will still go.
We have been winding them up a bit.
One lad won’t even use a red tee!
We asked him to auction his ST if he wasn’t going but he declined.

I think Raffa will do well there ,you do have a good squad.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Tounge in cheek.
They are saying that but know full well they will still go.
We have been winding them up a bit.
One lad won’t even use a red tee!
We asked him to auction his ST if he wasn’t going but he declined.

I think Raffa will do well there ,you do have a good squad.
		
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I know, don't worry 👍.

He has to start well to get the opportunity to do his stuff. If he does okay first 5 games then he will be fine. Bad start and he won't get the chance.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			its worse when you realise it means both mavropanos and saliba are being sent out on loan again and not given an opportunity. saliba cost nearly 30m and will spend his first 2 1/2 yrs out on loan lol

i assume if were spending 50m on one centre half we have a lot more money than thought to address the areas of real concern, ie midfield, RB and another keeper

clubs must salivate when arsenal are interested in their players
		
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How old is Saliba now ? Looks a good player so are they not giving him a go ? 

Mavropanos - no idea about him , has he played much


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## fundy (Jul 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How old is Saliba now ? Looks a good player so are they not giving him a go ? 

Mavropanos - no idea about him , has he played much
		
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Saliba is 20 i think, paid an extortionate amount for him as an 18 year old, not played him, just keep loaning him back to the french league, rumour has it that Arteta not keen on him and viewed as not physical enough, if thats the case surely loan him to a championship club rather than back to the french league!

Mavropanos is 22 i think, was excellent on loan in the Bundesliga back half of last year, basically giving him to Stuttgart after this years loan

Neither been given a sniff at Arsenal, we preferred to pick David Luiz 🤡

One thing is very clear with Arteta, you either fit the mould he thinks is right or you dont, not sure Arsenal have the budget to support overhauling the whole squad on that basis though! (Doesnt bode well for Nelson, Maitlin Niles, Willock, Nketiah or the majority of the youngsters coming through Hale End, not to mention the likes of Martinelli whos off to the Olympics for Brazil   )


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57873034

£50mil 😳 that’s a mental price for him
		
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Seems like a lot of money,but if you’ve actually seen him play he looks quality & could end up being a bargain.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 18, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seems like a lot of money,but if you’ve actually seen him play he looks quality & could end up being a bargain.
		
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Yes what I have seen of him he looks good.
A massive improvement on DL.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes what I have seen of him he looks good.
A massive improvement on DL.
		
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Is that a high bar though 🤔😆.

Young player so plenty of years in him. It does seem an awful lot though.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 18, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is that a high bar though 🤔😆.

Young player so plenty of years in him. It does seem an awful lot though.
		
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No it’s not .
Always thought DL wasn’t really a CB he is clumsy and ok giving stupid fouls on the halfway line ,but you can’t do it inside or just outside the box.
I think that’s not bad for a young English international with a bright future.
I would have him at Liverpool and offload Matip he’s always injured.


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## fundy (Jul 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes what I have seen of him he looks good.
A massive improvement on DL.
		
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🤡 really not the standard to be comparing with, is he a £50m better option that the 2 youngsters that have been marginalised and do we still have money to strengthen where its really needed? very high price tag for your marquee signing who has little more than 1 years solid form especially when spent money on Gabriel and Mari last year plus holding and chambers when you have 1 keeper at the club (who wants to leave), 2 inadequate right backs (plse cash in Bellerin if anyone will pay you) and an even more serious issue in central midfield. How many centre halves do you need when you dont have any european football?


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			🤡 really not the standard to be comparing with, is he a £50m better option that the 2 youngsters that have been marginalised and do we still have money to strengthen where its really needed? very high price tag for your marquee signing who has little more than 1 years solid form especially when spent money on Gabriel and Mari last year plus holding and chambers when you have 1 keeper at the club (who wants to leave), 2 inadequate right backs (plse cash in Bellerin if anyone will pay you) and an even more serious issue in central midfield. How many centre halves do you need when you dont have any european football?
		
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If your going to improve you need to sort out the defence ask Gareth Southgate for a few tips.
But if the manager insists on playing out from the back you need good players on the ball.imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417136808811540482
Arsenal certainly have opened up the wallet


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## fundy (Jul 19, 2021)

Not seen enough of Lokonga but comes highly rated considering the low price tag  More to follow hopefully (as well as several exits, yes xhaka, bellerin etc im looking at you)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2021)

😂😂😂😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 19, 2021)

Asmir Begovic and Andros Townsend have signed for Everton. Benitez bringing in PL experience maybe?🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2021)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...d-sex-offences.html?__twitter_impression=true

Not good - seen the rumours about which player it is but hope it’s just rumours


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## Kellfire (Jul 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...d-sex-offences.html?__twitter_impression=true

Not good - seen the rumours about which player it is but hope it’s just rumours
		
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A quick look on Twitter leaves it fairly obvious who it is.


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## Slime (Jul 19, 2021)

I don't think Utd have a 31 year old ............................. which is nice.


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## Kellfire (Jul 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			I don't think Utd have a 31 year old ............................. which is nice.
		
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 Yea, it’s not a Man Utd player.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 20, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			A quick look on Twitter leaves it fairly obvious who it is.
		
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Even if he’s innocent he’s screwed now it’s out there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			I don't think Utd have a 31 year old ............................. which is nice.
		
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The club involved have released a statement but unfortunately his name was out there already so regardless of what happens his career could be done even if innocent


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## Tashyboy (Jul 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



View attachment 37591


Here we go folks. New season, new hope.
https://www.premierleague.com/news/2171434

Click to expand...

Bump 😉😁


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## Tashyboy (Jul 20, 2021)

gonna be interesting re fans back at grounds, even more interesting to see if the clowns at a Stockley have learned anything re VAR in the Euros.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 20, 2021)

Not looking good this.

Everton club statement: “Everton can confirm it has suspended a first-team player pending a police investigation. The club will continue to support the authorities with their inquiries and will not be making any further statement at this time”


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not looking good this.

Everton club statement: “Everton can confirm it has suspended a first-team player pending a police investigation. The club will continue to support the authorities with their inquiries and will not be making any further statement at this time”
		
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I know that the player should remain anonymous at this time but with the police statement saying that a 31 year old man had been arrested and then Everton releasing a statement saying a player had been suspended it doesn't take Miss Marple to narrow the list down. I'm assuming that we aren't allowed to name any names on here but there's a very short list of Everton players who are 31 years old.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I know that the player should remain anonymous at this time but with the police statement saying that a 31 year old man had been arrested and then Everton releasing a statement saying a player had been suspended it doesn't take Miss Marple to narrow the list down. I'm assuming that we aren't allowed to name any names on here but there's a very short list of Everton players who are 31 years old.
		
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3 in total, 1 only signed yesterday, so just the 2 in reality.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I know that the player should remain anonymous at this time but with the police statement saying that a 31 year old man had been arrested and then Everton releasing a statement saying a player had been suspended it doesn't take Miss Marple to narrow the list down. I'm assuming that we aren't allowed to name any names on here but there's a very short list of Everton players who are 31 years old.
		
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Or just go on twitter his name was trending yesterday


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			3 in total, 1 only signed yesterday, so just the 2 in reality.
		
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pauljames87 said:



			Or just go on twitter his name was trending yesterday
		
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One of the names was also trending this morning although some people said that he had played in a friendly on Saturday which would seem unlikely if he'd been arrested on Friday. And having just looked at Twitter the other name is now trending.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			One of the names was also trending this morning although some people said that he had played in a friendly on Saturday which would seem unlikely if he'd been arrested on Friday. And having just looked at Twitter the other name is now trending.
		
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The other name is trending yes but the comments seem to be please be him we don't want him to be the golden child (if you pardon the expression)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57897181

Spurs opening their wallet up now as well 

Also can’t believe the CL starts again tonight 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57888796

Celtic in the second round of qualifying


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Asmir Begovic and Andros Townsend have signed for Everton. Benitez bringing in PL experience maybe?🤷‍♂️
		
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Both good signings for us. No. 2 keeper slot is always a tricky job. Begovic is still a solid keeper, will push Pickford, a more than able deputy, but at his age will know his role in the squad.

Townsend for free gives us pace, width and the odd goal. We need all 3 of those.

Good to see we are up and running.


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## Orikoru (Jul 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57897181

Spurs opening their wallet up now as well
		
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I don't really see the point of this. I guess he'd be back-up to Hugo, maybe Nuno doesn't rate Hart - but we already let Gazzaniga go because we had too many non home-grown players, and your back-up goalie isn't really a good use of a spot. Makes more sense to have an English one.


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## Orikoru (Jul 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Or just go on twitter his name was trending yesterday
		
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Let's make sure we keep his name out of the discussions, and remember he's innocent until proven Guilty


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't really see the point of this. I guess he'd be back-up to Hugo, maybe Nuno doesn't rate Hart - but we already let Gazzaniga go because we had too many non home-grown players, and your back-up goalie isn't really a good use of a spot. Makes more sense to have an English one.
		
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Maybe Lloris is on the way out ? 

Gollini is only 26 , Lloris 35 ? 

It’s also it seems a loan with option so it’s risk free as such


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## Orikoru (Jul 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe Lloris is on the way out ?

Gollini is only 26 , Lloris 35 ?

It’s also it seems a loan with option so it’s risk free as such
		
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But this guy is a nobody. Would be massively underwhelming. 

@Bdill93 is he any good?? Played for Villa in the Championship apparently.


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## Bdill93 (Jul 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			But this guy is a nobody. Would be massively underwhelming.

@Bdill93 is he any good?? Played for Villa in the Championship apparently. 

Click to expand...



Enough said?


Was awful at villa

However, 3 seasons at Atalanta - could be a totally different player now I suppose.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			I don't think Utd have a 31 year old ............................. which is nice.
		
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You won’t win anything with kids!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57894627

Whilst I think Newcastle need to be rid of Ashley - are the Saudis the way to go ?


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## GreiginFife (Jul 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57894627

Whilst I think Newcastle need to be rid of Ashley - are the Saudis the way to go ?
		
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In this day and age they need to be careful about associations with anyone that has questionable views and track record on the treatment of fellow human beings and the rights of the meek. 

So the Saudis might just be an improvement...


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 20, 2021)

We just need one footie thread, so the 2022 prem thread has been merged with one 👍


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## Orikoru (Jul 20, 2021)

Aside from that goalkeeper, we're being linked with another Atalanta player. But this one was apparently 'defender of the year' in Serie A, his name is Cristian Romero. I've never seen him play, but defender of the year never sounds bad. He was playing for Argentina in the Copa America as well, which they won so that bodes well too.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Let's make sure we keep his name out of the discussions, and remember he's innocent until proven Guilty
		
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The police have played a blinder here,why disclose his age?
The other player the same age as been caught up in this unnecessarily.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 20, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			In this day and age they need to be careful about associations with anyone that has questionable views and track record on the treatment of fellow human beings and the rights of the meek.

So the Saudis might just be an improvement...
		
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Get Ben And Jerry’s in.


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## Orikoru (Jul 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			The police have played a blinder here,why disclose his age?
The other player the same age as been caught up in this unnecessarily.
		
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A mod edited my post so the joke no longer worked, even though absolutely everyone knows who we're talking about by now.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			A mod edited my post so the joke no longer worked, even though absolutely everyone knows who we're talking about by now. 

Click to expand...


Made me laugh before they changed it. 
Those shadowy, faceless mods...


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## AmandaJR (Jul 20, 2021)

Lest we forget...


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 20, 2021)

I am thinking of reporting you to the mods.
Just thinking of a reason that will stand up


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am thinking of reporting you to the mods.
Just thinking of a reason that will stand up

Click to expand...

Mental torture?


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mental torture?
		
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Yes it’s ver hard to miss.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mental torture?
		
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I’d definitely take it over the “unbearables”.
Thankfully that didn’t last long 😊😂


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## KenL (Jul 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



https://thepfsa.co.uk/football-history/#:~:text=Football's modern origins began in,for the sport, was established.

_THE CONTEMPORARY HISTORY: WHERE & WHEN WAS FOOTBALL INVENTED?
*Football’s modern origins began in England* more than 100 years ago, in 1863. Rugby football and association football, once the same thing, went their separate ways and the Football Association, the first official governing body for the sport, was established._

Click to expand...

It's coming home???


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## harpo_72 (Jul 20, 2021)

KenL said:



			It's coming home???
View attachment 37643

Click to expand...

That’s an audience ball, when the entertainment was poor they threw this because rotten veg was in short supply … so it’s not a football , it’s a ball for abuse 😉


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## fundy (Jul 20, 2021)

Arsenals pre season tour to the states been cancelled after some positive tests in the squad


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 20, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			We just need one footie thread, so the 2022 prem thread has been merged with one 👍
		
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Cheers Phil, thanks for the help.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Both good signings for us. No. 2 keeper slot is always a tricky job. Begovic is still a solid keeper, will push Pickford, a more than able deputy, but at his age will know his role in the squad.

Townsend for free gives us pace, width and the odd goal. We need all 3 of those.

Good to see we are up and running.
		
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Demari Gray has signed today, all 3 costing a total of £1.5million.


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 20, 2021)




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## KenL (Jul 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			Arsenals pre season tour to the states been cancelled after some positive tests in the squad
		
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Picked the cases up in Glasgow?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Demari Gray has signed today, all 3 costing a total of £1.5million. 

Click to expand...

That's some careful budgeting 😄. Hopefully plenty left in the kitty.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417512118623035392
😂😂


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## fundy (Jul 20, 2021)

KenL said:



			Picked the cases up in Glasgow?
		
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possible, been cases in the youth team and at the training facility recently too though


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## harpo_72 (Jul 20, 2021)

I always viewed Everton and Spurs as clubs who just make up the numbers and were/ are never going to do anything… it seems little has changed especially now Ancelotti has gone .. Spurs could deliver so much more but they never do .. sorry, but that’s how it looks and yes appreciate that there are clubs with wedges of cash but just buying any old player in is not the way forward.


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2021)

Dear God, the new Spurs away kit is disgusting. I've never seen anything like it!




What the hell were they thinking?? The designers must have been on LSD.


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## Rlburnside (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Dear God, the new Spurs away kit is disgusting. I've never seen anything like it!

View attachment 37665


What the hell were they thinking?? The designers must have been on LSD. 

Click to expand...


That is awful who would sanction that , got to be one of the worst kits ever.


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			That is awful who would sanction that , got to be one of the worst kits ever.
		
Click to expand...

Given that Nike historically have used the same templates across their various clubs, I wonder if anyone else is getting horror show kits like this?? Or whether it's just us who are the laughing stocks.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Dear God, the new Spurs away kit is disgusting. I've never seen anything like it!

View attachment 37665


What the hell were they thinking?? The designers must have been on LSD. 

Click to expand...

Makes you think though, behind every crap design there are a bunch of other designs rejected as being worse


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 22, 2021)

That is hideous, truly hideous 

I'm looking forward to hearing the pretentious design concept behind it. 'Reaching for the stars' , 'no boundaries to what Spurs can achieve' etc


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 22, 2021)

I quite like it. Judging by the other reactions to it I might have to get myself a Covid test as I appear to have lost my sense of taste.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Dear God, the new Spurs away kit is disgusting. I've never seen anything like it!

View attachment 37665


What the hell were they thinking?? The designers must have been on LSD. 

Click to expand...

That is brilliant.


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2021)

To be fair I've just had a look at all this season's kits, and there are some other horrors. Here are the worst I've seen:



 - what is that checkered trim all about? Horrible.


 - are they actually serious?? This just looks like a random tee-shirt that you'd buy off a market stall!


 - I know it's only a goalie one but God, Pickford surely won't be happy about having to wear that. Hideous.




Here's the full page of kits that I got them from:
https://www.footyheadlines.com/2021/05/2021-22-premier-league-kit-overview.html


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## Fade and Die (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To be fair I've just had a look at all this season's kits, and there are some other horrors. Here are the worst I've seen:


View attachment 37669
 - what is that checkered trim all about? Horrible.

View attachment 37670
 - are they actually serious?? This just looks like a random tee-shirt that you'd buy off a market stall!

View attachment 37672
 - I know it's only a goalie one but God, Pickford surely won't be happy about having to wear that. Hideous.




Here's the full page of kits that I got them from:
https://www.footyheadlines.com/2021/05/2021-22-premier-league-kit-overview.html

Click to expand...


Really like the Leeds away kit, see it selling well with the ladies! And Chelsea have gone for some kind of “dazzle” pattern! 
West Ham’s sticking with the traditional for the home kit, away looks a bit different but not really dramatic.


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Really like the Leeds away kit, see it selling well with the ladies! And Chelsea have gone for some kind of “dazzle” pattern!
West Ham’s sticking with the traditional for the home kit, away looks a bit different but not really dramatic.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I liked that lilac Leeds kit, nice colour. I quite liked the Chelsea third kit actually, and the City away kit (white one) is lovely, as opposed to that third which is a joke! I also liked the Burnley home, the sleeve design is quite nice.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 22, 2021)

To be fair, the city one will go well with a pair of jeans, a big selling point for spare kits. 

The Everton gk one is horrible though. The only good point is that it might distract a striker in a one on one


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## Piece (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Dear God, the new Spurs away kit is disgusting. I've never seen anything like it!

View attachment 37665


What the hell were they thinking?? The designers must have been on LSD. 

Click to expand...

I like that. But then, I'm not wearing it!


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## sunshine (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Here's the full page of kits that I got them from:
https://www.footyheadlines.com/2021/05/2021-22-premier-league-kit-overview.html

Click to expand...

Good share - thanks 

Starting at the top of the page, Adidas have done well with the new Arsenal kits - the third strip is a belter.


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## sunshine (Jul 22, 2021)

Looks like geometric patterns are back in favour! (with the exception of Spurs)


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## sunshine (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Dear God, the new Spurs away kit is disgusting. I've never seen anything like it!

View attachment 37665


What the hell were they thinking?? The designers must have been on LSD. 

Click to expand...

I didn't think it was possible, but the 3rd kit is even worse!

Maybe the Nike guys had an internal bet to see who could make the most revolting design.


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I didn't think it was possible, but the 3rd kit is even worse!

Maybe the Nike guys had an internal bet to see who could make the most revolting design.
		
Click to expand...

Often you find all the Nike clubs having the same design templates, just with the colours changed. At least they've moved away from that this year, you have to say!


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2021)

I know its funny season for the press but most summers you hope that they may be right on 1 or 2 of the names that are linked, this summer Im hoping were not going to get the names were linked at at the prices. 30m+ for Ramsdale? 40m for Abraham (yup Chelsea want their regular laugh at Arsenal tfr) in addition to White at 50m. Rumours of 65m for Maddison too lol, Assuming weve robbed a big bank and arent too concerned what we spend it on as long as theyre English?


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			I know its funny season for the press but most summers you hope that they may be right on 1 or 2 of the names that are linked, this summer Im hoping were not going to get the names were linked at at the prices. 30m+ for Ramsdale? 40m for Abraham (yup Chelsea want their regular laugh at Arsenal tfr) in addition to White at 50m. Rumours of 65m for Maddison too lol, Assuming weve robbed a big bank and arent too concerned what we spend it on as long as theyre English?
		
Click to expand...

'English tax' is ridiculous. Ramsdale is an awful goalkeeper. If he wasn't English you're paying £10mil tops. It's an absolute joke. The homegrown rule needs to be scrapped, or at least changed significantly. White is a good defender, but again, if he's not English he's a £30mil player.


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			'English tax' is ridiculous. Ramsdale is an awful goalkeeper. If he wasn't English you're paying £10mil tops. It's an absolute joke. The homegrown rule needs to be scrapped, or at least changed significantly. White is a good defender, but again, if he's not English he's a £30mil player.
		
Click to expand...

Sheff Utd want 32m for a keeper who has been relegated the last 2 seasons, they think his value almost doubled last season, i have no idea on what basis! Looks cracking business having sold Martinez for 17m lol. Id much rather see us go for Sam Johnstone for 10m thats for sure


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			Sheff Utd want 32m for a keeper who has been relegated the last 2 seasons, they think his value almost doubled last season, i have no idea on what basis! Looks cracking business having sold Martinez for 17m lol. Id much rather see us go for Sam Johnstone for 10m thats for sure
		
Click to expand...

Somehow scraped into the England squad on the back of Pope and Henderson getting injured and there being no other options. Hey presto, double in value, ha. Sam Johnstone is absolutely a better goalkeeper. Then again we're talking about a back-up for Leno here I suppose - Johnstone could rival him for first choice, but Ramsdale would be getting splinters all season.


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Somehow scraped into the England squad on the back of Pope and Henderson getting injured and there being no other options. Hey presto, double in value, ha. Sam Johnstone is absolutely a better goalkeeper. Then again we're talking about a back-up for Leno here I suppose - Johnstone could rival him for first choice, but Ramsdale would be getting splinters all season.
		
Click to expand...


Not sure Lenos staying, def not long term, been some chatter he may go this summer, which if were spending 32m on a keeper would make sense sadly. Arsenals track record on keepers since Seaman been awful, and maybe about to get worse


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## HampshireHog (Jul 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is hideous, truly hideous 

I'm looking forward to hearing the pretentious design concept behind it. 'Reaching for the stars' , 'no boundaries to what Spurs can achieve' etc 

Click to expand...

’Jackson Pollocks’.?


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## Rooter (Jul 22, 2021)

Don't worry spuds fans, at least the third kit is O... oh my...


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			Not sure Lenos staying, def not long term, been some chatter he may go this summer, which if were spending 32m on a keeper would make sense sadly. Arsenals track record on keepers since Seaman been awful, and maybe about to get worse 

Click to expand...

Well, let's hope you do install Ramsdale as first choice, as we already know, he has a knack for getting relegated.


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Don't worry spuds fans, at least the third kit is O... oh my...

View attachment 37675

Click to expand...

I actually prefer this to the away kit! I think it might just be the colour, I've always liked a bit of purple.


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## Patster1969 (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Dear God, the new Spurs away kit is disgusting. I've never seen anything like it!

View attachment 37665


What the hell were they thinking?? The designers must have been on LSD. 

Click to expand...

It looks like they have forcefed a couple of kids bags & bags of Skittles and just had them vomit on a shirt


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## GB72 (Jul 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			'English tax' is ridiculous. Ramsdale is an awful goalkeeper. If he wasn't English you're paying £10mil tops. It's an absolute joke. The homegrown rule needs to be scrapped, or at least changed significantly. White is a good defender, but again, if he's not English he's a £30mil player.
		
Click to expand...

This is why the German Clubs have picked up on a real trick. Sign very young English talent that cannot get first team opporunities then sell back to the cash rich premier league at a massive mark up if they start showing promise. They get a decent player for a few years and it only takes one or two to pay off to inject the club with massive funding.


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## Fade and Die (Jul 22, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Don't worry spuds fans, at least the third kit is O... oh my...

View attachment 37675

Click to expand...


If it was your telly you’d be whacking the top of it!😆


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2021)

At least ESR has signed a new contract  probably be our best signing this summer that


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## sunshine (Jul 22, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Don't worry spuds fans, at least the third kit is O... oh my...

View attachment 37675

Click to expand...

Sorry I ran over the kit in my tractor


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## fundy (Jul 24, 2021)

Seems Ole is going to be at the wheel until 2024 having signed a new contract


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 24, 2021)

Some shocking allegations being made about Ryan Giggs from his ex.


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## hairball_89 (Jul 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			Seems Ole is going to be at the wheel until 2024 having signed a new contract
		
Click to expand...

Same as Klopp. And I'm genuinely interested to see who has the better 3 years. 

United signing Sancho, and potentially looking at a net zero transfer fee if they ship out Pogba, is great business. If they build on last season they're only going to get better. All the while we appear to be banking on our injured players from last season stepping up this and probably upgrading the backups (Shaq, Origi etc.) if possible. I'm genuinely excited for this season, I think it's gonna be close at the top and that's best for the whole league. 

Unless City spend £160m on Kane although they "can't afford him" if you trust Pep...!


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 24, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Same as Klopp. And I'm genuinely interested to see who has the better 3 years.

United signing Sancho, and potentially looking at a net zero transfer fee if they ship out Pogba, is great business. If they build on last season they're only going to get better. All the while we appear to be banking on our injured players from last season stepping up this and probably upgrading the backups (Shaq, Origi etc.) if possible. I'm genuinely excited for this season, I think it's gonna be close at the top and that's best for the whole league.

Unless City spend £160m on Kane although they "can't afford him" if you trust Pep...!
		
Click to expand...

Also rumours of Grealish agreeing terms with Man City. I think if they get Kane and Grealish we might as well give up on the league and try to predict who will finish 2nd and how many points behind Man City they'll be. I do think that if City get those two then Man Utd have to put in a massive bid to get Haaland just to give them any chance of competing. As well as adding Varane or another defender. Either that or let Pogba go to PSG but get Mbappe in return at any cost.

A Utd team of;
Henderson
Wan Bisaka
McGuire
Varane
Shaw
Fred/McTominay
Fernandes
Pogba
Sancho
Cavani/Haaland
Rashford/Greenwood

should be good enough to compete at the top end of the table.


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## arnieboy (Jul 24, 2021)

Just wait until Levy wisely spends the Kane money on several 'great' players just as he did when Bale was sold.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2021)

Amazing how with every club making significant losses over the past 12 months that City can spend £260mil on two players 🤔

Another state sponsership deal I guess


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## fundy (Jul 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Amazing how with every club making significant losses over the past 12 months that City can spend £260mil on two players 🤔

Another state sponsership deal I guess
		
Click to expand...


dont tell me youre believing stories from a certain red top Phil


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## BiMGuy (Jul 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Amazing how with every club making significant losses over the past 12 months that City can spend £260mil on two players 🤔

Another state sponsership deal I guess
		
Click to expand...

I don't understand why they would go for Kane of Haaland. Especially when Haaland could be had for a lower price.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			dont tell me youre believing stories from a certain red top Phil 

Click to expand...

Of course not and don’t forget Pep claimed poverty the other day as well


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## IanM (Jul 24, 2021)

City have become everything their fans used to hate


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## Rlburnside (Jul 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I actually prefer this to the away kit! I think it might just be the colour, I've always liked a bit of purple.
		
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That’s just as bad if not worse what a load of crap.


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## GB72 (Jul 24, 2021)

BBC reporting Kane to miss first match of the season due to 'exertions at euros'.first game of the season is Spurs v Man City. Coincidence?


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## hairball_89 (Jul 24, 2021)

GB72 said:



			BBC reporting Kane to miss first match of the season due to 'exertions at euros'.first game of the season is Spurs v Man City. Coincidence?
		
Click to expand...

Nothing in football is coincidence. Also, if you remember... He did bugger all at the euros*!

*depending on who you ask, and which team they support!


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## GB72 (Jul 25, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Nothing in football is coincidence. Also, if you remember... He did bugger all at the euros*!

*depending on who you ask, and which team they support!
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, announce now so no investigation when he does not play in the opening match as part of the transfer deal.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 25, 2021)

IanM said:



			City have become everything their fans used to hate 

Click to expand...

what trophy less. Oh hang on 😉


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## Tashyboy (Jul 25, 2021)

The Jury has been picked for the Ryan Giggs court case


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2021)

Apparently we're selling Toby to some team in Qatar. Last I heard he wanted to go back to his native Belgium with his family - seems to have taken a wrong turn somewhere, I wonder what caused that?   Disappointing given that he's only 32 but quite happy to waste the end of his career for some extra digits in the bank account, but he's not the first and won't be the last.


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## larmen (Jul 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Disappointing given that he's only 32 but quite happy to waste the end of his career for some extra digits in the bank account, but he's not the first and won't be the last.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t even know the player you are talking about, but in principle I don’t understand why people play in China, Middle East, Russia for the last really big pay cheque. The money surely is big, but if they are such a big name player they could get a contract in any European big league which pays more than enough to last the out their lifetime. Hoffenheim, Salzburg, Eindhoven, … must all be nicer than playing in a regime state.
And people going to Turkey? A lot of people sign big money contract, and a year later they leave on a free transfer because they haven’t been paid their wages.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently we're selling Toby to some team in Qatar. Last I heard he wanted to go back to his native Belgium with his family - seems to have taken a wrong turn somewhere, I wonder what caused that?   Disappointing given that he's only 32 but quite happy to waste the end of his career for some extra digits in the bank account, but he's not the first and won't be the last.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps he sees football as a job and has been offered a massive pay rise by another company to do the same job he is doing now but with less demanding conditions. Football is finite for players and retirement usually comes some 25-30 years earlier than us Joes, why would someone not want to take a pay rise with less stress and a bigger retirement pot? 

Ok, footballers are extraordinarily well paid in general, but would you not accept a job with another company for a pay rise even if you were feeling "comfortable" in your current situation?


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## BiMGuy (Jul 26, 2021)

larmen said:



			I don’t even know the player you are talking about, but in principle I don’t understand why people play in China, Middle East, Russia for the last really big pay cheque. The money surely is big, but if they are such a big name player they could get a contract in any European big league which pays more than enough to last the out their lifetime. Hoffenheim, Salzburg, Eindhoven, … must all be nicer than playing in a regime state.
And people going to Turkey? A lot of people sign big money contract, and a year later they leave on a free transfer because they haven’t been paid their wages.
		
Click to expand...

Double the money and probably tax free.
If it was an option why wouldn't you? 

It's also probably an easier life than playing for a mid table team in a top European league.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Perhaps he sees football as a job and has been offered a massive pay rise by another company to do the same job he is doing now but with less demanding conditions. Football is finite for players and retirement usually comes some 25-30 years earlier than us Joes, why would someone not want to take a pay rise with less stress and a bigger retirement pot?

Ok, footballers are extraordinarily well paid in general, but would you not accept a job with another company for a pay rise even if you were feeling "comfortable" in your current situation?
		
Click to expand...

I have no problem with it but it's not like he's getting peanuts with us, or as Larmen said, another European would definitely be giving him a reasonable contract. I totally understand moving for money, but then personally I still wouldn't go to a fourth-rate league where competition is basically nil (and not to mention the fact it's stupidly hot over there) just to earn 400k a week instead of 200k a week. I feel like I'd be alright for money either way and I'd rather keep playing a good standard.

Then again I don't really have a huge amount of ambition in my own working life, so maybe that's just me. As long as I have _enough_ money I'm more worried about my day to day happiness.

Edit: Also he's only 32. He could have had another two years at a good level and still then gone to Qatar/China if he wanted, as he'd still be good enough for those leagues then. I'm surprised he's making this move so early.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I have no problem with it but it's not like he's getting peanuts with us, or as Larmen said, another European would definitely be giving him a reasonable contract. I totally understand moving for money, but then personally I still wouldn't go to a fourth-rate league where competition is basically nil (and not to mention the fact it's stupidly hot over there) just to earn 400k a week instead of 200k a week. I feel like I'd be alright for money either way and I'd rather keep playing a good standard.

Then again I don't really have a huge amount of ambition in my own working life, so maybe that's just me. As long as I have _enough_ money I'm more worried about my day to day happiness.

Edit: Also he's only 32. He could have had another two years at a good level and still then gone to Qatar/China if he wanted, as he'd still be good enough for those leagues then. I'm surprised he's making this move so early.
		
Click to expand...

Even an extra 100k a week is 5 million a year. So an extra couple of years could easily add 10 to 20 million to his bank balance. It would certainly make retirement much more comfortable.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Even an extra 100k a week is 5 million a year. So an extra couple of years could easily add 10 to 20 million to his bank balance. It would certainly make retirement much more comfortable.
		
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Do you think he's struggling to make ends meet at the moment then?


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## larmen (Jul 26, 2021)

I think we are not talking about money that takes someone over that ‘make a living’ line but money that goes straight into disposable income.
Yes, it needs to last for retirement, but these days any footballer of some qualified earns enough to last out if they are not entirely stupid or mislead.


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## GB72 (Jul 26, 2021)

I think that there is always the assumption that the foorballer cares more than a normal employee and that will not always be the case. They may have no affiliation to a club, may have done what they see as their stint at international level and I suspect that more than would like to admit do not even like playing that much any more. You are a long time retired and so an easier life with a massive pay cheque seems the ideal way to go. 

I suspect we are guilty of seeing being a footballer as being all about winning medals and playing for famous clubs or those you supported as a boy but I suspect for some it is now simply a daily grind and a pay cheque.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Do you think he's struggling to make ends meet at the moment then?
		
Click to expand...

Probably not. But you never know! 
There are very few people who wouldn't be happy with an extra few million in the bank to make like easier for longer.

Plus training is probably much easier. Win win.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Probably not. But you never know!
There are very few people who wouldn't be happy with an extra few million in the bank to make like easier for longer.

*Plus training is probably much easier.* Win win.
		
Click to expand...

Is it, or will he be running about in 42° heat??


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## BiMGuy (Jul 26, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I think that there is always the assumption that the foorballer cares more than a normal employee and that will not always be the case. They may have no affiliation to a club, may have done what they see as their stint at international level and I suspect that more than would like to admit do not even like playing that much any more. You are a long time retired and so an easier life with a massive pay cheque seems the ideal way to go.

I suspect we are guilty of seeing being a footballer as being all about winning medals and playing for famous clubs or those you supported as a boy but I suspect for some it is now simply a daily grind and a pay cheque.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly this. 

My BiL played for a low PL/1st Division club in the early 2000s. After the initial buzz of signing for a club at that level. It was just a job to him.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Exactly this.

My BiL played for a low PL/1st Division club in the early 2000s. After the initial buzz of signing for a club at that level. It was just a job to him.
		
Click to expand...

I understand that, I still wouldn't go and play in a country where it's stupid hot and the football is awful just for even more ridiculous wages then I was already on. But job satisfaction is different for different people.


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## fundy (Jul 26, 2021)

A sad day for yellow card backers everywhere as Lamela leaves the premier league 

seems decent business by spurs imo, offloading him in the deal to buy Gil


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2021)

Spurs have signed a winger from Sevilla, Bryan Gil, with Erik Lamela going the other way. I don't know the Sevilla player, are Spurs fans happy with that?

Lamela was one of those odd players. Could be superb at times but anonymous and irritating at others. I would not have thought there would be too many tears at him moving on.


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## fundy (Jul 26, 2021)

Sounds like Varane to Utd all but a done deal too, floodgates about to open on summer tfrs?


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## Rlburnside (Jul 26, 2021)

Lamela always gave 100% something the fans in the stadium would have appreciated, although sometimes he looked like a headless chicken and always living on the edge of getting sent off. 

He’s been at Spurs for a long while and let’s not forget he scored one of the best goals that’s ever been seen.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2021)

I'm gutted Lamela has gone. Had to happen eventually, but we'll never see a glorious -house of his ilk again I shouldn't think. In fairness I think he peaked with the rabona goal + red card in the NLD. That had to be the glass ceiling for him I should think. Have so many fond memories of him, like the time he stamped on Fabregas' hand, or the time he called Wilshere a 🐱. Sad to see him go. 

I have no idea who Bryan Gil is so only time will tell if that's a good deal or not.


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## Kellfire (Jul 26, 2021)

I’ve long since stopped being overly optimistic about our signings because we routinely turn diamonds into cubic zerconia but I’ll genuinely be excited if we get this Varane deal over the line.


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## Slime (Jul 26, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I’ve long since stopped being overly optimistic about our signings because we routinely turn diamonds into cubic zerconia but I’ll genuinely be excited if we get this Varane deal over the line.
		
Click to expand...

It looks like it's a done deal ............................. at £34M!
Wow that seems cheap, especially when compared to £50M for Ben White.
This has been a good window for United so far ....................................... and that makes a change!
Declan Rice and Erling Haaland would be nice.


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## Billysboots (Jul 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			It looks like it's a done deal ............................. at £34M!
Wow that seems cheap, especially when compared to £50M for Ben White.
This has been a good window for United so far ....................................... and that makes a change!
Declan Rice and Erling Haaland would be nice. 

Click to expand...

Needed two quality central defenders for a long time - we’ve looked vulnerable for far too long.

I agree, a great window so far. I suspect that may be it unless Pogba goes, as funding for more signings will probably be needed, especially the players you have in mind!


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## Tashyboy (Jul 26, 2021)

One for the utd fans. Two quality signings so far. But has the penny finally dropped for the Utd finance men. What’s the reason behind the spending this season as against not spending in other.


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## Slime (Jul 26, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Needed two quality central defenders for a long time - we’ve looked vulnerable for far too long.

I agree, a great window so far. I suspect that may be it unless Pogba goes, as *funding for more signings will probably be needed*, especially the players you have in mind!
		
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that the Sancho deal is payable over four years, that's less than £20M out of our current budget.
Maybe we could use Lingard as part of the fee for rice.
Haaland, that's just wishful thinking.
If Kane is worth £160M, Haaland is comfortably worth £200M+.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			It looks like it's a done deal ............................. at £34M!
Wow that seems cheap, especially when compared to £50M for Ben White.
This has been a good window for United so far ....................................... and that makes a change!
Declan Rice and Erling Haaland would be nice. 

Click to expand...

a year left on his contract so hard to push too much for a bigger fee

Just a small chunk to add onto the debt or use the credit line

I see Neville has stopped screaming about the disgrace in money as Man Utd who are in a huge debt , had big losses due to Covid , have taken out further credit loans yet can spend over £100mil on two players

How can any more players be bought without someone being sold for a big fee ?

Thankfully OGS is still at the wheel


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## Slime (Jul 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			One for the utd fans. Two quality signings so far. But has the penny finally dropped for the Utd finance men. What’s the reason behind the spending this season as against not spending in other.
		
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Utd generally spend big/back the manager when we've failed to reach the Champions League, this year just feels a bit different.
Maybe there's guilt/remorse due to the failed ESL fiasco.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			Utd generally spend big/back the manager when we've failed to reach the Champions League, this year just feels a bit different.
*Maybe there's guilt/remorse due to the failed ESL fiasco.*

Click to expand...

Looks like it’s all forgotten with the club spending even more millions. I guess those protests were a bit hollow after all


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## Slime (Jul 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			a year left on his contract so hard to push too much for a bigger fee
		
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So why has nobody else come in for him?
Liverpool spent similar sums on Konate, Arsenal have virtually done £50M on White, AC Milan spent £25M on Tomori.
I think Utd have bagged a real bargain with Varane, a real bargain.


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## Slime (Jul 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like it’s all forgotten with the club spending even more millions. *I guess those protests were a bit hollow after all*

Click to expand...

In what way?


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## fundy (Jul 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			So why has nobody else come in for him?
Liverpool spent similar sums on Konate, Arsenal have virtually done £50M on White, AC Milan spent £25M on Tomori.
I think Utd have bagged a real bargain with Varane, a real bargain.
		
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think AC Milan got one too, in fact 3 of those look really good business, hope im wrong on the 4th


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## Billysboots (Jul 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			So why has nobody else come in for him?
Liverpool spent similar sums on Konate, Arsenal have virtually done £50M on White, AC Milan spent £25M on Tomori.
I think Utd have bagged a real bargain with Varane, a real bargain.
		
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I had a horrible feeling we were being used as a means to bag a new deal at Real, same as Ramos did a few years back. I agree, this is a top quality deal at a bargain price given the player involved.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			So why has nobody else come in for him?
Liverpool spent similar sums on Konate, Arsenal have virtually done £50M on White, AC Milan spent £25M on Tomori.
I think Utd have bagged a real bargain with Varane, a real bargain.
		
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Konate was on release clause

Tomori is young and not established yet

White has the English tax on it

If Madrid didn’t sell him they would have lost him for free next year

A lot of the other top clubs already have top CB’s

And Varane deal is reported to have doubled his wage to £10mil ( after tax ) a year (£200k a week ) -highest paid player in the Prem


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			In what way?
		
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Because they don’t care about the owners now because they’re spending £100 mil ( despite the huge debt and Covid losses ) on players 

Where has Neville gone and all his rants about the disgraceful actions and money ? Suddenly stopped is seems - just shows the hypocritical nature of it all - clubs losing millions through Covid , huge debts yet continues to spend


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## Slime (Jul 26, 2021)

I don't think any of the protests were hollow, it helped to get the ESL confined to Room 101.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			I don't think any of the protests were hollow, it helped to get the ESL confined to Room 101.
		
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Or was it the threat of legal action and being threatened to be kicked out of the Prem and CL ? To save a very messy court case 

Man Utd have huge debts and recently took out more credit line and go and spend £100mil - does that not worry you at all ? Or does it get ignored because a player is bought


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## Kellfire (Jul 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or was it the threat of legal action and being threatened to be kicked out of the Prem and CL ? To save a very messy court case

Man Utd have huge debts and recently took out more credit line and go and spend £100mil - does that not worry you at all ? Or does it get ignored because a player is bought
		
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Ok we won’t be happy at the club signing a good player. Thanks for reminding us what a good fan is.


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## Hobbit (Jul 27, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Ok we won’t be happy at the club signing a good player. Thanks for reminding us what a good fan is.
		
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I wouldn’t worry. When you look at operating costs and revenue, servicing debt is not an issue.

Liverpool are pretty similar in terms of % and have done exceptionally well with sponsorship, although Nike have been a bit slow ‘coughing up’ their money. And the Courtinho money, which distorted the balance sheet, is long since spent. Their current fire sale of fringe players, estimated value of £75m, will make quite a difference, especially with a wage bill not far short of their income.

Arsenal are, probably, most in ‘danger’ from the loss of revenue, and still appear to be a club in transition.


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## Kellfire (Jul 27, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			I wouldn’t worry. When you look at operating costs and revenue, servicing debt is not an issue.

Liverpool are pretty similar in terms of % and have done exceptionally well with sponsorship, although Nike have been a bit slow ‘coughing up’ their money. And the Courtinho money, which distorted the balance sheet, is long since spent. Their current fire sale of fringe players, estimated value of £75m, will make quite a difference, especially with a wage bill not far short of their income.

Arsenal are, probably, most in ‘danger’ from the loss of revenue, and still appear to be a club in transition.
		
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Yea, I dunno. It seems more like I should just pack it all in and support a good family club like Liverpool and ignore the facts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Yea, I dunno. It seems more like I should just pack it all in and support a good family club like Liverpool and ignore the facts.
		
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When did anyone suggest that ? 

It wasn’t that long ago everyone was up in arms about football being morally and financially bankrupt - clubs having huge losses due to Covid but that’s all ignored though when their club signs a player for multi millions - all those morals get thrown out the window when they spend £80mil on a player and give him £250k a week 

Every club took loans - we did as well , a credit facility which I believe has now been paid off - I wouldn’t want to see the club take loans or go into debt to sign players , even more so in the current financial situation 

If you don’t care then don’t worry your little head about it , some don’t care about the finances within their club


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## Kellfire (Jul 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did anyone suggest that ?

It wasn’t that long ago everyone was up in arms about football being morally and financially bankrupt - clubs having huge losses due to Covid but that’s all ignored though when their club signs a player for multi millions - all those morals get thrown out the window when they spend £80mil on a player and give him £250k a week

Every club took loans - we did as well , a credit facility which I believe has now been paid off - I wouldn’t want to see the club take loans or go into debt to sign players , even more so in the current financial situation

If you don’t care then don’t worry your little head about it , some don’t care about the finances within their club
		
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I do care but not at the point where I’m not happy to see us signing a good player. Maybe you shouldn’t spout your faux (hypocritical) outrage if you don’t want people to disagree with you?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I do care but not at the point where I’m not happy to see us signing a good player. Maybe you shouldn’t spout your faux (hypocritical) outrage if you don’t want people to disagree with you?
		
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So as I said - all the morals and caring about the finances goes out the window and ignored when big money is spent on a player - that’s cool at least we know your position 

No one said you couldn’t disagree and not sure what im being hypocritical about 🤷‍♂️


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## Kellfire (Jul 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So as I said - all the morals and caring about the finances goes out the window and ignored when big money is spent on a player - that’s cool at least we know your position

No one said you couldn’t disagree and not sure what im being hypocritical about 🤷‍♂️
		
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Do you have any idea what middle ground is? Are you aware that people can hold opinions that aren’t at an extreme?


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## Orikoru (Jul 27, 2021)

To be fair, if Spurs spend big on a player, I don't give a toss where the money comes from. I'm not paying for it.


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## SteveW86 (Jul 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To be fair, if Spurs spend big on a player, I don't give a toss where the money comes from. I'm not paying for it. 

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Spending big on a player isnt really something Spurs do though, so you're probably safe. Unless Kane goes this summer.


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## Orikoru (Jul 27, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Spending big on a player isnt really something Spurs do though, so you're probably safe. Unless Kane goes this summer.
		
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We have done plenty of times. They're just usually crap.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To be fair, if Spurs spend big on a player, I don't give a toss where the money comes from. I'm not paying for it. 

Click to expand...

We all know the money is coming from the sale of Kane lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To be fair, if Spurs spend big on a player, I don't give a toss where the money comes from. I'm not paying for it. 

Click to expand...

Spurs took out a loan earlier in the year as well but if they do spend big it will be from selling Kane


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## nickjdavis (Jul 27, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I’ve long since stopped being overly optimistic about our signings because we routinely turn diamonds into cubic zerconia but I’ll genuinely be excited if we get this Varane deal over the line.
		
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At least you buy a few diamonds....at Newcastle our strategy is to take Iron Pyrites on loan.


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## Orikoru (Jul 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			We all know the money is coming from the sale of Kane lol
		
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Ali Gold still saying no, but we'll see.


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## Hobbit (Jul 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spurs took out a loan earlier in the year as well but if they do spend big it will be from selling Kane
		
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Pretty much every business of any size uses the bank’s money. And every bank has strict, very strict, lending rules. It’s naive to think it isn’t done without a measure of control. The sport itself monitors spending, although could do better as it’s response is both reactive and then restrictive.

Fans arguing the toss about businesses that use someone else’s money, the banks, are ignoring the good business sense of not using their own money.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Pretty much every business of any size uses the bank’s money. And every bank has strict, very strict, lending rules. It’s naive to think it isn’t done without a measure of control. *The sport itself monitors spending, although could do better as it’s response is both reactive and then restrictive.*

Fans arguing the toss about businesses that use someone else’s money, the banks, are ignoring the good business sense of not using their own money.
		
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I think it’s been shown over that last couple of years that the monitoring the sport does is a waste of space and clubs clearly have no issues getting around it

I guess it’s just the standard transfer window when clubs spend way beyond their means as usual whilst our little toxic lot demand our owners leave because they believe in being more financially sound. Sooner the season starts and it’s down to the managers the better - then the cream rises regardless of spending.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			At least you buy a few diamonds....at Newcastle our strategy is to take Iron Pyrites on loan.
		
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The sad thing for Newcastle, one of many sad things, is that your transfer highlight for this year is the possible signing of Willock, a lad Bruce barely ever started. He would be a decent signing but not season changing. It will be another season where survival is the target 😔


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## IanM (Jul 28, 2021)

Blimey, I did a cheeky remark about Scottish Clubs playing in Europe before the schools break up and I am only a few days out! 

Never an easy game Midtjylland ....


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## toyboy54 (Jul 28, 2021)

IanM said:



			Blimey, I did a cheeky remark about Scottish Clubs playing in Europe before the schools break up and I am only a few days out!

Never an easy game Midtjylland .... 

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You could at least have waited until after extra time...dreadful result for Celtic ( I take no pleasure in this-bad for co-efficient as well)
Still RFC are in as are Aberdeen and Hibs!!
Remind me again please if you would...Which team do you support-and are they in Europe comps??...Just interested


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To be fair, if Spurs spend big on a player, I don't give a toss where the money comes from. I'm not paying for it. 

Click to expand...

So you’re more a fan of the game itself rather than studying every clubs finances?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 29, 2021)

Man City 8/13 to win the title,surely no ones backing them at that price.


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## Slime (Jul 30, 2021)

Good to see VVD and Gomez back after their awful injuries.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 30, 2021)

50 Million for a guy that's played one Premier League Season at, lets face it, the wrong end of the table and never received a full cap... What am I missing here?

Brighton must be laughing their heads off surely?


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			50 Million for a guy that's played one Premier League Season at, lets face it, the wrong end of the table and never received a full cap... What am I missing here?

Brighton must be laughing their heads off surely?
		
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go back a few weeks youll see my views, hopefully I like you are wrong 

it seems arteta has been given 200m and thinks ramsdale, white, maddison and abraham is how he should spend it, clubs must laugh as soon as arsenal show any interest, double the figure and add a bit more

just to cheer us up even more it seems weve asked too much money for xhaka so are instead going to give him a new contract and bellerin is desperate to go to inter milan but they dont actually want anymore than a loan deal and were going to accept that (even though theyve just sold their right back for 60m lol)

on top of that theres about 7 or 8 others that were supposed to be moved on to reduce the wage bill that they arent managing to do deals for so will probably end up selling better younger prospects instead leaving us yet again with a bloated and unbalanced squad, most on ridiculous wages, cant wait for the season to start


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## GreiginFife (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			go back a few weeks youll see my views, hopefully I like you are wrong 

it seems arteta has been given 200m and thinks ramsdale, white, maddison and abraham is how he should spend it, clubs must laugh as soon as arsenal show any interest, double the figure and add a bit more

just to cheer us up even more it seems weve asked too much money for xhaka so are instead going to give him a new contract and bellerin is desperate to go to inter milan but they dont actually want anymore than a loan deal and were going to accept that (even though theyve just sold their right back for 60m lol)

on top of that theres about 7 or 8 others that were supposed to be moved on to reduce the wage bill that they arent managing to do deals for so will probably end up selling better younger prospects instead leaving us yet again with a bloated and unbalanced squad, most on ridiculous wages, cant wait for the season to start 

Click to expand...

Never mind mate, at least he's an England defender 😂.

The glaring problem at Arsenal since about 2004ish was the need to address the defence but all they seem to bring in are midfielders. Never seen a squad so midfield heavy before. 

Defenders that are brought in are either untested, unreliable or cheap. 

Need a solid DM like a Viera or Fernandinho type player to build around instead of lightweight fast AMs that end up never getting a game (Suarez, Torieira, even Odegaard when he came in wasn't used fully IMO) 

But then this is the view from afar from someone that supports their local Scottish second tier side, I'm sure some football expert that supports Man U  or Liverpool from a distance will be along to tell me thats all wrong 😂


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Never mind mate, at least he's an England defender 😂.

The glaring problem at Arsenal since about 2004ish was the need to address the defence but all they seem to bring in are midfielders. Never seen a squad so midfield heavy before. 

Defenders that are brought in are either untested, unreliable or cheap. 

Need a solid DM like a Viera or Fernandinho type player to build around instead of lightweight fast AMs that end up never getting a game (Suarez, Torieira, even Odegaard when he came in wasn't used fully IMO) 

But then this is the view from afar from someone that supports their local Scottish second tier side, I'm sure some football expert that supports Man U  or Liverpool from a distance will be along to tell me thats all wrong 😂
		
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From about 5 years before Wenger finally went all we have done is destroy asset value, overpay for the wrong type of player and unbalance the squad. current trend seems to be more of the same  the big issue is clearing out the deadwood still, get rid of xhaka, willian, bellerin, kolasinac, lacazette and torreira and you save close to £1m a week!!!!!! thats before you decide whether £300k a week for aubameyang is viable with no european football 

Personally id happily see us be mid table for a couple of years and give the youth players a proper chance, but will never happen


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## GreiginFife (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			From about 5 years before Wenger finally went all we have done is destroy asset value, overpay for the wrong type of player and unbalance the squad. current trend seems to be more of the same  the big issue is clearing out the deadwood still, get rid of xhaka, willian, bellerin, kolasinac, lacazette and torreira and you save close to £1m a week!!!!!! thats before you decide whether £300k a week for aubameyang is viable with no european football 

Personally id happily see us be mid table for a couple of years and give the youth players a proper chance, but will never happen
		
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Thus are the pressures in "the best league in the world" for a team like Arsenal. 

Torreira didn't seem like a bad player. Games I saw he was either under used or used out of position. Xhaka is probably the worst professional football player I have seen, and I include Ali Dia in that 😂, stealing a living. 

Build a solid defense and you have some decent talent in mid and attack to deliver some good football IMO, the weak link is totally defence for me.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 30, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Thus are the pressures in "the best league in the world" for a team like Arsenal.

Torreira didn't seem like a bad player. Games I saw he was either under used or used out of position. Xhaka is probably the worst professional football player I have seen, and I include Ali Dia in that 😂, stealing a living.

Build a solid defense and you have some decent talent in mid and attack to deliver some good football IMO, the weak link is totally defence for me.
		
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The way Arteta wants them to play from the back is scary.
Most defenders are not capable of this .
The ones that are cost a fortune.
That will be the biggest hurdle buying defenders imo.


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Thus are the pressures in "the best league in the world" for a team like Arsenal. 

Torreira didn't seem like a bad player. Games I saw he was either under used or used out of position. Xhaka is probably the worst professional football player I have seen, and I include Ali Dia in that 😂, stealing a living. 

Build a solid defense and you have some decent talent in mid and attack to deliver some good football IMO, the weak link is totally defence for me.
		
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Am a massive Torreira fan but he didnt settle in the UK and was never happy at Arsenal. He lost his mum to covid earlier this year and ideally wants to go home, alternatively hell go somewhere on the continent I expect. Shame as really liked him as a signing/player but yet another we wont get close to seeing the best of at Arsenal 

Xhaka back being "underrated" again after a supposed amazing Euro 202 for Switzerland. I just dont get it I really dont, hes too slow, too error prone and weve now remodelled how we play to accommodate him despite him having slagged off the fan base on more than one occasion. Give him to Mourinho at whatever price hell pay, please


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## GreiginFife (Jul 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The way Arteta wants them to play from the back is scary.
Most defenders are not capable of this .
*The ones that are cost a fortune.*
That will be the biggest hurdle buying defenders imo.
		
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Seems the ones that aren't also cost a fortune.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2021)

Ben White is a very good player - whilst it’s prob £10mil more than what he is worth he does have the added English tax on him.


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The way Arteta wants them to play from the back is scary.
Most defenders are not capable of this .
The ones that are cost a fortune.
That will be the biggest hurdle buying defenders imo.
		
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Trust the process - 3 words most arsenal fans really dont like hearing!!!!! 

And if anyone can explain how paying 30m+ for Ramsdale fits with this policy of playing out from the back Id love to hear it!!!!!


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ben White is a very good player - whilst it’s prob £10mil more than what he is worth he does have the added English tax on him.
		
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worth more than Varane on all accounts


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			worth more than Varane on all accounts 

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Varane has one year left on his contract , was refusing to sign an extension so Madrid got the best price they could , Varane will reportedly earn £10mil a year as well


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ben White is a very good player - whilst it’s prob £10mil more than what he is worth he does have the added English tax on him.
		
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is he really what we need though? a 6ft nothing ball playing versatile centre half with only 1 year at the top and a price tag that says hes one of the best there is. is he really better than saliba or mavropanos will be? for arteta and edus sake i hope so

hes gone for twice the fee that Tomori has for eg whilst were also burning the 30m we bought Sailba for in the process


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Varane has one year left on his contract , was refusing to sign an extension so Madrid got the best price they could , Varane will reportedly earn £10mil a year as well
		
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how much you think Whites getting at Arsenal? (ps we pay Willian more than Varanes getting lol)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			is he really what we need though? a 6ft nothing ball playing versatile centre half with only 1 year at the top and a price tag that says hes one of the best there is. is he really better than saliba or mavropanos will be? for arteta and edus sake i hope so

hes gone for twice the fee that Tomori has for eg whilst were also burning the 30m we bought Sailba for in the process
		
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no idea if it’s the player that Arsenal need -just saying that he is a very good player. No idea what Sailba etc are like as well


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			no idea if it’s the player that Arsenal need -just saying that he is a very good player. No idea what Sailba etc are like as well
		
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would you be happy if liverpool had paid 50m up front and 150k a week for him?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			how much you think Whites getting at Arsenal? (ps we pay Willian more than Varanes getting lol)
		
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Wilian is on £190k a week but was a free transfer  🤷‍♂️ And White on £5mil



fundy said:



			would you be happy if liverpool had paid 50m up front and 150k a week for him?
		
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Being happy about a the fee would be determined by how the player ends up surely ? He could end up be a starting CB for the next 7/8 years and then the fee would be worth it


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

wheres 100k a week for white come from, i heard the number was close to 150k a week

we overpaid on the free tfr (and a 14m signing on bonus reputedly!)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			wheres 100k a week for white come from, i heard the number was close to 150k a week

we overpaid on the free tfr (and a 14m signing on bonus reputedly!)
		
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ansfer-news-Ben-White-fee-contract-gossip/amp


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

Being happy about a the fee would be determined by how the player ends up surely ? He could end up be a starting CB for the next 7/8 years and then the fee would be worth it

oh come on Phil, you dont wait to see how ever player turns out before commenting on whether its a decent tfr do you?

would you want him at that price?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Being happy about a the fee would be determined by how the player ends up surely ? He could end up be a starting CB for the next 7/8 years and then the fee would be worth it

oh come on Phil, you dont wait to see how ever player turns out before commenting on whether its a decent tfr do you?

would you want him at that price?
		
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i think he is a good signing - and if we signed him at that price I wouldn’t be too bothered tbh , he is a £30-40mil player so expect the added english tax


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## Billysboots (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Being happy about a the fee would be determined by how the player ends up surely ? He could end up be a starting CB for the next 7/8 years and then the fee would be worth it

oh come on Phil, you dont wait to see how ever player turns out before commenting on whether its a decent tfr do you?

would you want him at that price?
		
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I still have sleepless nights over the amount United paid for Maguire. At least he was an established Premier League player and a regular international starter.

£50m for Ben White sums the transfer market up. Premier League clubs paying way over the odds for English players. If Brighton invest wisely they’ve just done a cracking bit of business.


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i think he is a good signing - and if we signed him at that price I wouldn’t be too bothered tbh , he is a £30-40mil player so expect the added english tax
		
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think we'd all be happier if he'd gone to you lol, expect he's a better fit for you currently too 

as i say i hope im wrong but feels like weve had our pants down for a player that isnt really what we need


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I still have sleepless nights over the amount United paid for Maguire. At least he was an established Premier League player and a regular international starter.

£50m for Ben White sums the transfer market up. Premier League clubs paying way over the odds for English players. If Brighton invest wisely they’ve just done a cracking bit of business.
		
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id trust tony bloom and brighton to spend the 50m far more than i would our lot lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58032324

😳😳

Edit - wrong link at first 🤦‍♂️


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51570705

😳😳
		
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they should make a top trumps game of the worst tfrs from the last 25 years lol, silly silly numbers been spent since sky rocked up in the early 90s


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## Billysboots (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			they should make a top trumps game of the worst tfrs from the last 25 years lol, silly silly numbers been spent since sky rocked up in the early 90s
		
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My shower would feature very, very strongly.

Eric Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson, Fred, Massimo Taibi, Bebe, the list is absolutely endless…………….


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			they should make a top trumps game of the worst tfrs from the last 25 years lol, silly silly numbers been spent since sky rocked up in the early 90s
		
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Sorry I posted the wrong link 🤦‍♂️ But there have been shockers over the past 30 years

It seems that City bidding £100mil for Grealish - wonder where that money is coming from when the last accounts had them making a loss of £100 plus mil - some more state sponsership


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry I posted the wrong link 🤦‍♂️ But there have been shockers over the past 30 years

It seems that City bidding £100mil for Grealish - wonder where that money is coming from when the last accounts had them making a loss of £100 plus mil - some more state sponsership
		
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i like the one you posted haha

in the scheme of things 100m for grealish seems ok, considering they have endless pots of money and little others areas of issue, could win them a CL


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			i like the one you posted haha

in the scheme of things 100m for grealish seems ok, considering they have endless pots of money and little others areas of issue, could win them a CL
		
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I don’t know what’s happening with FFP but the level of losses when their net spend is over £1bn over past 10 years must be huge - seen that Everton have potential FFP issues as well stopping them from signing players 🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Jul 30, 2021)

Delighted with our latest signing 

Areola (on loan at Fulham last season)

Fab in his last year of contract and got Injured warming up twice last year 

Slow replacement like Moyes did with Howard replacing Martyn


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## BiMGuy (Jul 30, 2021)

Ben White is an extremely good defender. He could also play as a defensive midfielder. 

He has potential to be one of the best of coached well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2021)

If Grealish does go to city then 1 or 2 might be moved on. Whoever it is they are likely to be worth a few quid and that will offset some of the fee. Not many duffers in that squad. Hopefully, for the sake of the league, it doesn't happen.


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## Slime (Jul 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Varane has one year left on his contract , was refusing to sign an extension so Madrid got the best price they could , Varane will reportedly earn £10mil a year as well
		
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That's less than £200K per week, that's not a lot by today's standards.
It makes him even more of a bargain.


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## fundy (Jul 31, 2021)

Scottish league over in July lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1422130899542491139
So it’s starts - I don’t think any club will pay what Spurs want for him


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## ger147 (Aug 2, 2021)

So Kane is pulling a van Dijk...


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2021)

ger147 said:



			So Kane is pulling a van Dijk...
		
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🙄


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## Orikoru (Aug 2, 2021)

That Kane story is nonsense. The media is desperate for him to move to City so they have something to talk about. Apparently he was due back today but they have to wait for a negative Covid test so it's an absolute nothing story.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That Kane story is nonsense. The media is desperate for him to move to City so they have something to talk about. Apparently he was due back today but they have to wait for a negative Covid test so it's an absolute nothing story.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1422134310656778251
Believe this guy is very well respected within football media


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## fundy (Aug 2, 2021)

Rumour has it hes been to pick Jack up and gone on a day trip to see the sights in Manchester 🤣🤣🤣


dont know what im laughing at, Partey injured yesterday and saviour Xhaka to the rescue sigh


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## Orikoru (Aug 2, 2021)

It seems very unlike Kane, but whatever it is, it's not going to make Levy accept a 90 million bid all of a sudden is it? It changes nothing.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It seems very unlike Kane, but whatever it is, it's not going to make Levy accept a 90 million bid all of a sudden is it? It changes nothing.
		
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It's probably just saved Levy two week's wages if he fines Kane for not turning up to training.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It seems very unlike Kane, but whatever it is, it's not going to make Levy accept a 90 million bid all of a sudden is it? It changes nothing.
		
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Lots of fans have said that about lots of players. 

Kane doesn't strike me as someone who won't show up come opening day, but if he does dig in. Spurs can't afford to have him not play and not take an offer imo


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## Orikoru (Aug 2, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Lots of fans have said that about lots of players.

Kane doesn't strike me as someone who won't show up come opening day, but if he does dig in. Spurs can't afford to have him not play and not take an offer imo
		
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It's also too late to sell him now though. If everyone knows we have £130mil in the back pocket and only two weeks to find a Kane replacement, we're going to be mugged off by everybody. No chance of getting a reasonable deal done.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's also too late to sell him now though. If everyone knows we have £130mil in the back pocket and only two weeks to find a Kane replacement, *we're going to be mugged off by everybody. No chance of getting a reasonable deal done.*

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Has that stopped Spurs before? 

The same applies to all clubs. Really, if you are going to sell you want to sell as early in the window as possible. The later the date the more horrible the prices you end up paying for the replacements.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's also too late to sell him now though. If everyone knows we have £130mil in the back pocket and only two weeks to find a Kane replacement, we're going to be mugged off by everybody. No chance of getting a reasonable deal done.
		
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Loads of clubs have lost stars on deadline day. 

TBF, you could have lost him 8 weeks ago. Clubs will still know you've got that money. 

However much you get, you best just hope your transfers are better than post Bale...


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## pauljames87 (Aug 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It seems very unlike Kane, but whatever it is, it's not going to make Levy accept a 90 million bid all of a sudden is it? It changes nothing.
		
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Worked with berbatov 

Levy has a way of making it hard for players to leave ...bale modric both had long drawn out transfers 

If he has a gentleman's agreement with Kane then he should honour it and let him leave


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## Orikoru (Aug 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Worked with berbatov

Levy has a way of making it hard for players to leave ...bale modric both had long drawn out transfers

If he has a *gentleman's agreement* with Kane then he should honour it and let him leave
		
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What does that even mean? I don't think there are any gentlemen in football. Certainly no honour or morals.


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## IanM (Aug 2, 2021)

Kane was told City is in the North West. 

He's currently house hunting around Aylesbury


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 3, 2021)

Looks like VAR is going to used a bit different 

No more “marginal” offsides

No more soft marginal penalties ( they highlighted Sterlings in the Euros )

also the rumours are that Kane will refuse to go to any training at Spurs


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## Orikoru (Aug 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like VAR is going to used a bit different

No more “marginal” offsides

No more soft marginal penalties ( they highlighted Sterlings in the Euros )

also the rumours are that Kane will refuse to go to any training at Spurs
		
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On VAR - I'll believe that when I see it. 

On Kane - I don't understand why he would think not attending training will make City stump up £150mil.


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## SteveW86 (Aug 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			On VAR - I'll believe that when I see it.

On Kane - I don't understand why he would think not attending training will make City stump up £150mil. 

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Maybe testing how much Levy would really pay for him to sit in the reserves and his value keep on falling. This window is the maximum they will get for him. 

Will Levy not sell and let his value drop as his contract runs down? Spurs could probably do with a bit of a rebuild with the money from Kane to stabilise themselves as a top 6 team again.


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## Orikoru (Aug 3, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Maybe testing how much Levy would really pay for him to sit in the reserves and his value keep on falling. This window is the maximum they will get for him.

Will Levy not sell and let his value drop as his contract runs down? Spurs could probably do with a bit of a rebuild with the money from Kane to stabilise themselves as a top 6 team again.
		
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The plan was probably to keep him one more year and sell him next summer for £100m anyway. As I've said it's pointless selling him now, we've got no chance of getting anything like a decent replacement in a couple of weeks.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The plan was probably to keep him one more year and sell him next summer for £100m anyway. As I've said it's pointless selling him now, we've got no chance of getting anything like a decent replacement in a couple of weeks.
		
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Surely though your director of football, manager etc will have a wishlist of players lined up, some possible before, some possible now. Players are watched all of the time so it is not as if you suddenly have to start from scratch now. You just need to get the Kane deal done and put plan C into action asap. The only ones suffering if Levy plays a long game is Spurs. You need to leave the selling clubs time to get their player in otherwise the cost goes up even more or you are left with no-one. At this stage you can still get good replacements.


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## Orikoru (Aug 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Surely though your director of football, manager etc will have a wishlist of players lined up, some possible before, some possible now. Players are watched all of the time so it is not as if you suddenly have to start from scratch now. You just need to get the Kane deal done and put plan C into action asap. The only ones suffering if Levy plays a long game is Spurs. You need to leave the selling clubs time to get their player in otherwise the cost goes up even more or you are left with no-one. At this stage you can still get good replacements.
		
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Doesn't matter who he's lined up, they won't be as good as Kane. As I said yesterday, any striker who's even 80% of Kane's level, we'll get absolutely ripped off for them because they'll know we have that money burning a hole. It's a lose-lose situation.


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## pendodave (Aug 3, 2021)

Sorry if I missed it, but why on earth did kane not put a release clause in his new contract?
Everything that has happened is entirely predictable, and now he can't get out. Because he (or his agent) would have got a bit less, I guess. But at his age and with his ankles, that looks very short sighted now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Doesn't matter who he's lined up, they won't be as good as Kane. As I said yesterday, any striker who's even 80% of Kane's level, we'll get absolutely ripped off for them because they'll know we have that money burning a hole. It's a lose-lose situation.
		
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That's life though. The key is to use the money well and end up stronger as a team.


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## BiMGuy (Aug 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's life though. The key is to use the money well and end up stronger as a team.
		
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Just like they did after selling Bale? 🤔


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 3, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Just like they did after selling Bale? 🤔
		
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Clearly not . Their faut though. Do it better this time


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			On VAR - I'll believe that when I see it.

On Kane - I don't understand why he would think not attending training will make City stump up £150mil. 

Click to expand...


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 3, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1422593680184123392


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## Orikoru (Aug 4, 2021)

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-kane-brother-agent-mess-tottenham-transfer-manchester-city

Pretty good article on the Kane situation and sums up my feelings entirely. Rubbish timing and never likely to have any effect. I would like to think we can blame his agent as suggested here, although it may be wishful thinking - Harry isn't exactly known for his brains outside of the football pitch either.


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## GB72 (Aug 4, 2021)

Kane does appear to have left himself in an impossible position. He has signed a long contract and the big clubs are not going to be scrabbling for him at the end of it (especially with the injury record). If it is true, he has naively relied on a gentleman's agreement rather than have that formally put in his contract as a release clause and now Spurs want more than most are willing or able to pay in these pandemic times. Cannot see any winners here, Kane is a bit stuck and Spurs have a player who clearly does not want to be there.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2021)

Surely the thing for Kane to do is turn up to train, be professional, but state clearly in interviews that he wishes to leave and should be able to as per a verbal agreement he has with the club. That way there is no embarrassing climbdown, he doesn't look as bad as he does right now, he leaves or stays as a hero to the fans still. No one wins in the current situation, certainly not Kane.

On another matter, Villa have quietly bought another player from Germany. Wide player who scores as well as supplies. They will be more than tidy next season, obviously more so if Grealish stays.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 4, 2021)

Reported that Grealish to Man City will be confirmed later today. Can City afford another £130 million (ish) for Kane on top of that?


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## fundy (Aug 4, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Reported that Grealish to Man City will be confirmed later today. Can City afford another £130 million (ish) for Kane on top of that?
		
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pretty sure they can, whether it meets so called FFP rules a bit less likely, not sure they are too worried having hired another 5 lawyers recently lol. kinda makes a mockery of the league if the side that wins it the previous year then goes and buys arguably the best 2 players outside of their nearest challengers


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## Orikoru (Aug 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Surely the thing for Kane to do is turn up to train, be professional, but state clearly in interviews that he wishes to leave and should be able to as per a verbal agreement he has with the club. That way there is no embarrassing climbdown, he doesn't look as bad as he does right now, he leaves or stays as a hero to the fans still. No one wins in the current situation, certainly not Kane.

On another matter, Villa have quietly bought another player from Germany. Wide player who scores as well as supplies. They will be more than tidy next season, obviously more so if Grealish stays.
		
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Is that Leon Bailey? I can report that in Football Manager 20 he was an absolute beast who always became world class. So if they're on the money that is a massive coup for Villa.



ColchesterFC said:



			Reported that Grealish to Man City will be confirmed later today. Can City afford another £130 million (ish) for Kane on top of that?
		
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I don't believe they wanted to spend that much either way. Reports were they didn't want to go higher than 100 so they gave up.



fundy said:



			pretty sure they can, whether it meets so called FFP rules a bit less likely, not sure they are too worried having hired another 5 lawyers recently lol. kinda makes a mockery of the league if the side that wins it the previous year then goes and buys arguably the best 2 players outside of their nearest challengers
		
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FFP is a bit of a joke anyway, they are 'sponsored' by their owners so whenever they want to pump more money in they just call it a new sponsorship deal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			pretty sure they can, whether it meets so called FFP rules a bit less likely, not sure they are too worried having hired another 5 lawyers recently lol. kinda makes a mockery of the league if the side that wins it the previous year then goes and buys arguably the best 2 players outside of their nearest challengers
		
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That’s pretty much it 

City fans on social media believe they have £350 mil to spend due to winning the league ( yet made record losses in the accounts ) 

It’s clear the owner will just be putting more money into the club via some dodgy sponsership

Will be great if they don’t win the league or CL despite just outspending people again 

And I guess Guardiolas words of “ we won’t spend £100mil on one player “ and “being priced out of strikers” is as truthful as their accounts


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Is that Leon Bailey? I can report that in Football Manager 20 he was an absolute beast who always became world class. So if they're on the money that is a massive coup for Villa.
		
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Yes, that's the lad.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2021)

Villa score again. Ings has signed for £25m. Really good buy by them.

I feel so sorry for Southampton fans though. Once again losing a top player and not being able to build.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Villa score again. Ings has signed for £25m. Really good buy by them.

I feel so sorry for Southampton fans though. Once again losing a top player and not being able to build.
		
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Yes.. I liked Ings but his injury record for us wasn’t good .


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## hairball_89 (Aug 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Villa score again. Ings has signed for £25m. Really good buy by them.

I feel so sorry for Southampton fans though. Once again losing a top player and not being able to build.
		
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I thought he told Southampton he wanted to leave to go to a big club? interesting move there! But definitely seems Villa are spending the Grealish money well. 

I have to admit, I thought Ings was nailed on to replace Kane at white hart lane.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes.. I liked Ings but his injury record for us wasn’t good .
		
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It wasn't but it's been decent at Southampton.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			I thought he told Southampton he wanted to leave to go to a big club? interesting move there! But definitely seems Villa are spending the Grealish money well.

I have to admit, I thought Ings was nailed on to replace Kane at white hart lane.
		
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If he isn't going to get a top 4 move, he probably would not again, then you are looking at the next group of teams. Villa are setting themselves up nicely to be pushing the best of the rest. They had a cracking transfer window last summer, this summer looks equally good. 

Ings to spurs would have been a good replacement but how long could he wait to see if Kane moves? Villa forced his hand, well played them.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If he isn't going to get a top 4 move, he probably would not again, then you are looking at the next group of teams. Villa are setting themselves up nicely to be pushing the best of the rest. They had a cracking transfer window last summer, this summer looks equally good.

Ings to spurs would have been a good replacement but how long could he wait to see if Kane moves? Villa forced his hand, well played them.
		
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Can't disagree with any of this really. Bets on Villa finishing higher than Spurs by the end of the season?!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2021)

£100mil for Jack Grealish 😂 

£100mil !!! Staggering


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## BiMGuy (Aug 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			£100mil for Jack Grealish 😂

£100mil !!! Staggering
		
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Madness. He's good, but £100mill good? I'll need some convincing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Madness. He's good, but £100mill good? I'll need some convincing.
		
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Do they even need him with Silva , Mahrez , Sterling , Foden in those wider areas ? KDB behind them - just feels like a madness signing

Going from the big fish to being rotated 

Reminds a bit of Coutinho going to Barcelona - a lot of money


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## BiMGuy (Aug 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do they even need him with Silva , Mahrez , Sterling , Foden in those wider areas ? KDB behind them - just feels like a madness signing

Going from the big fish to being rotated

Reminds a bit of Coutinho going to Barcelona - a lot of money
		
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Pep obviously thinks he can do something with him.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 4, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Pep obviously thinks he can do something with him.
		
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Very similar to kdb but with s lot more fouls won ..


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## BiMGuy (Aug 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 37886

Very similar to kdb but with s lot more fouls won ..
		
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He's not KdB by any stretch of the imagination.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do they even need him with Silva , Mahrez , Sterling , Foden in those wider areas ? KDB behind them - just feels like a madness signing

Going from the big fish to being rotated

Reminds a bit of Coutinho going to Barcelona - a lot of money
		
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Did you say it was a lot of money for Coutinho at the time? 🤔
Seem to remember you telling us all that the “little magician” wasn’t going anywhere no matter how much money was offered😉


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## pauljames87 (Aug 4, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			He's not KdB by any stretch of the imagination.
		
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Lot of people said that about kdb when he first popped up and city

Let's see how a move to a title chasing club works 

I think he will up his game even further


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## SaintHacker (Aug 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Villa score again. Ings has signed for £25m. Really good buy by them.

I feel so sorry for Southampton fans though. Once again losing a top player and not being able to build.
		
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I think its fantastic business. I liked the guy a lot but he can't play a full season, and he's one bad knock away from his career being finished, and lets face it he's much nearer retirment than his debut, £30m is crazy money. We've got a couple of exciting young strikers coming through and money in the bank to spend. Whats not to like?


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## BiMGuy (Aug 4, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Did you say it was a lot of money for Coutinho at the time? 🤔
Seem to remember you telling us all that the “little magician” wasn’t going anywhere no matter how much money was offered😉
		
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Like I said. Pep must think he can improve him.


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## fundy (Aug 4, 2021)

Horrible tackle on Fofana in a friendly with Villareal, he's gonna be out for a while after that


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## fundy (Aug 4, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			I think its fantastic business. I liked the guy a lot but he can't play a full season, and he's one bad knock away from his career being finished, and lets face it he's much nearer retirment than his debut, £30m is crazy money. We've got a couple of exciting young strikers coming through and money in the bank to spend. Whats not to like?
		
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you gonna be as happy when they buy JWP too?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Can't disagree with any of this really. Bets on Villa finishing higher than Spurs by the end of the season?!
		
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That could be an interesting one. As things stand, with all of the uncertainty at Spurs and a new manager, I'd be leaning towards Villa.


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## SaintHacker (Aug 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			you gonna be as happy when they buy JWP too? 

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Lol, no!


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## fundy (Aug 4, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Lol, no!
		
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you think youve got problems our brains trust are offering the liability xhaka a contract extension lol, its almost spursy


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			Horrible tackle on Fofana in a friendly with Villareal, he's gonna be out for a while after that 

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If the pictures are right then it’s a horror injury - going to be a year at least


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That could be an interesting one. As things stand, with all of the uncertainty at Spurs and a new manager, I'd be leaning towards Villa.
		
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Their fans probably hope so as well, Villa were relegation fodder when Grealish was injured last season.


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## Kellfire (Aug 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If the pictures are right then it’s a horror injury - going to be a year at least
		
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A broken fibula isn’t necessarily going to be that length of time, depending just how complex the fracture was. I’d imagine he’ll be back this season.


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## ger147 (Aug 5, 2021)

Great to see him back at Inter.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-to-club-for-first-time-since-cardiac-arrest


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## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Can't disagree with any of this really. *Bets on Villa finishing higher than Spurs by the end of the season*?!
		
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Not gonna lie, I'm starting to think the same. Even without Grealish.


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## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do they even need him with Silva , Mahrez , Sterling , Foden in those wider areas ? KDB behind them - just feels like a madness signing

Going from the big fish to being rotated

Reminds a bit of Coutinho going to Barcelona - a lot of money
		
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I think Grealish is world class or will be world class shortly, but I hate the fact he's going to City. As you say they've just got too many options, so he'll only be playing 50% of games. It was already frustrating watching Foden do the same, when he'd be an ever-present at most teams. Hopefully they let one of Bernardo or Mahrez go so he has a little more chance of game time. How many times do we see English players going to the top teams and their career gets ruined.


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## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Horrible tackle on Fofana in a friendly with Villareal, he's gonna be out for a while after that 

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I've just watched it, he actually got the ball. Wouldn't say it was the worst tackle I've ever seen, maybe a bit over-zealous for a friendly though. A bit unlucky that Fofana's leg got trapped underneath him.


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## Cherry13 (Aug 5, 2021)

Is grealish a done deal??  Messi could be about to put a spanner in the works for both him and Kane.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 5, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Is grealish a done deal??  Messi could be about to put a spanner in the works for both him and Kane.
		
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I'd say Kane is the one getting a sweat on. Going on strike could heavily backfire now.

Would you bin Grealish when he has just had his medical?

It certainly makes things interesting.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd say Kane is the one getting a sweat on. Going on strike could heavily backfire now.

Would you bin Grealish when he has just had his medical?

It certainly makes things interesting.
		
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Pep has to go for Messi surely!

Be interesting if Villa really had the money to spend or were simply spending the Grealish money if it falls through…..


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## pauljames87 (Aug 5, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Is grealish a done deal??  Messi could be about to put a spanner in the works for both him and Kane.
		
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That news to me is Barca saying right laliga change the rules or lose your superstar 

Watch him be able to get a contract now


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## Imurg (Aug 5, 2021)

Every Wycombe Wanderers fan currently looking down the back of the sofa.....


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## GB72 (Aug 5, 2021)

Grealish signing confirmed to end that rumour


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## pauljames87 (Aug 5, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I hope said player is wearing Claret and Blue next year 

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This didn't age well

Good price tho


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## GG26 (Aug 5, 2021)

Gutted for Fofana and hopefully he’ll be back before the end of the season.  My season ticket arrived yesterday and was looking forward to watching him live.


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## Dando (Aug 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Grealish signing confirmed to end that rumour
		
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Pep has spent over £900m now


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## Beezerk (Aug 5, 2021)

Dando said:



			Pep has spent over £900m now
		
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Wish he was Wednesday manager 🙈


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2021)




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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 5, 2021)

…among the discussion of all the ludicrous transfer fees and weekly wages…St Johnstone 45 player squad total wage bill for last year was about £1.5m…for the year (Almost all would have been on the 22 man first team squad). Still enough to get an excellent away result in Turkey in a European comp if you have the right players; the right manager; plus oodles of discipline, togetherness and pride…👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


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## stefanovic (Aug 6, 2021)

Grealish started at my club, Highgate Utd.
From there to Man City (via some club in Aston) for £100mn.
What did the Gate get in return?
He donated a fridge.


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## Dando (Aug 6, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			Grealish started at my club, Highgate Utd.
From there to Man City (via some club in Aston) for £100mn.
What did the Gate get in return?
He donated a fridge.
		
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at least it will keep the half time oranges cold


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## stefanovic (Aug 6, 2021)

If he'd stayed at Highgate the game tomorrow is a preliminary FA Cup tie at home to Malvern Town.
Just shows how far you can go in this world.


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## Rlburnside (Aug 6, 2021)

Kane’s come out and said he never refused to train and will be back at the club tomorrow as planned.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Kane’s come out and said he never refused to train and will be back at the club tomorrow as planned.
		
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City not paying the fee Levy is demanding then


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## Rlburnside (Aug 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			City not paying the fee Levy is demanding then
		
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He could have come out and said this at the start of the week ….. could be something to do with City spending big on Grealish.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			He could have come out and said this at the start of the week ….. could be something to do with City spending big on Grealish.
		
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Or Messi being available


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## 4LEX (Aug 6, 2021)

Rate Grealish as a player but not sure he's a great fit at City unless Pep is planning some new system or some big sales. Grealish, Sterling and Foden all favour the exact same space high on the left wing. Take them anywhere else they're half the player. Something bizarre about this signing unless Kane or Haaland is on the way. Very tidy player but the only thing he really excels in are cute final balls and winning freekicks. Throw in KDB's delivery and that'll be one hell of a combo...IF City have someone in the midfdle who can head bar the centre backs or a clinical striker to finish the cute passes.

Bold statement but unless City sign an elite striker they won't win the title or CL


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## Reemul (Aug 6, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			He could have come out and said this at the start of the week ….. could be something to do with City spending big on Grealish.
		
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If it's true, Spurs could have actually said something as well you know, like Harry is not due back till Saturday, but maybe better to make Kane look like he is in the wrong to garner support for Spurs rather than admit nothing happening here of any note. Stinking all round if you ask me,


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## BiMGuy (Aug 6, 2021)

Kane is backtracking massively due to the Messi situation. 

Can't see anyone other than PSG paying Messi's wages. But you never know. 

Would City gamble on getting one exceptional season out of him to bag the CL?


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 6, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Kane is backtracking massively due to the Messi situation.

Can't see anyone other than PSG paying Messi's wages. But you never know.

Would City gamble on getting one exceptional season out of him to bag the CL?
		
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Seems like Messi was willing to take a 50% pay cut to stay at Barca so he might not be as ridiculously expensive as he might've been previously. He's still going to command big wages but with no transfer fee he's definitely worth a punt for a couple of seasons at least.


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## SteveW86 (Aug 6, 2021)




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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Seems like Messi was willing to take a 50% pay cut to stay at Barca so he might not be as ridiculously expensive as he might've been previously. He's still going to command big wages but with no transfer fee he's definitely worth a punt for a couple of seasons at least.
		
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Reports that he was going to get a £50mil signing on fee and £40mil after tax wages at PSG


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 6, 2021)

Wonder what Neymar would think of Messi joining him at PSG


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Reports that he was going to get a £50mil signing on fee and £40mil after tax wages at PSG
		
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And they've still probably saved themselves £150 - £200 million compared to paying a transfer fee for him.

Are PSG going down the Kevin Keegan Newcastle route of it doesn't matter how many we concede, we'll score more? Icardi up front with Messi, Mbappe and Neymar alongside or in behind. There aren't too many defences that would fancy coming up against those four. Surely they've got to go with a 4-2-3-1 formation if Messi joins. I've just had a look at the PSG squad list. There are going to be some disappointed players this season with the amount of game time they're going to get. In midfield they've got Verrati, Paredes, Di Maria, Rafinha, Wijnaldum, Draxler, Herrara and Gueye. Either Pochetino is going to have to sell some of them or try to find a way to keep eight midfielders happy while only picking two of them to start each week.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And they've still probably saved themselves £150 - £200 million compared to paying a transfer fee for him.

Are PSG going down the Kevin Keegan Newcastle route of it doesn't matter how many we concede, we'll score more? Icardi up front with Messi, Mbappe and Neymar alongside or in behind. There aren't too many defences that would fancy coming up against those four. Surely they've got to go with a 4-2-3-1 formation if Messi joins. I've just had a look at the PSG squad list. There are going to be some disappointed players this season with the amount of game time they're going to get. In midfield they've got Verrati, Paredes, Di Maria, Rafinha, Wijnaldum, Draxler, Herrara and Gueye. Either Pochetino is going to have to sell some of them or try to find a way to keep eight midfielders happy while only picking two of them to start each week.
		
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He is 34 - I don’t expect any club would pay that level of fee for him and wages that can see only one club can pay 

lots of talk of Mbappe being sold to Madrid because he won’t sign a new contract


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## 4LEX (Aug 6, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wonder what Neymar would think of Messi joining him at PSG
		
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He's too busy partying to worry. I think he's lost all ambition to be the best player in the world and just bullies a few nomark sides in France and saves his best for Brazil.


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## 4LEX (Aug 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And they've still probably saved themselves £150 - £200 million compared to paying a transfer fee for him.

Are PSG going down the Kevin Keegan Newcastle route of it doesn't matter how many we concede, we'll score more? Icardi up front with Messi, Mbappe and Neymar alongside or in behind. There aren't too many defences that would fancy coming up against those four. Surely they've got to go with a 4-2-3-1 formation if Messi joins. I've just had a look at the PSG squad list. There are going to be some disappointed players this season with the amount of game time they're going to get. In midfield they've got Verrati, Paredes, Di Maria, Rafinha, Wijnaldum, Draxler, Herrara and Gueye. Either Pochetino is going to have to sell some of them or try to find a way to keep eight midfielders happy while only picking two of them to start each week.
		
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It's all a toxic mix though. A side full of mercenaries who shouldn't be wasting their time in the Farmers League. Arrogance and complacency will creep in, just like it did last season as they bottled the title to Lille. Poch isn't a manager of egos and it'll end in another title but another failure in the CL. 

Shame on Messi for wasting his final years putting 5 past Championship level teams.


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## GG26 (Aug 7, 2021)

I enjoyed the Community Shield.  I could get used to winning trophies. 🏆


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## Rlburnside (Aug 8, 2021)

Spurs sign Christian Romero from Atalanta, never heard of him but he was voted best defender in Seire A last season so must be a good signing.


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## pendodave (Aug 8, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Spurs sign Christian Romero from Atalanta, never heard of him but he was voted best defender in Seire A last season so must be a good signing.
		
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I have a long running concern that Spurs will sign someone good that will improve them considerably.
Mostly unrealised, thank the Lord, but it still troubles me nevertheless.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 8, 2021)

pendodave said:



			I have a long running concern that Spurs will sign someone good that will improve them considerably.
Mostly unrealised, thank the Lord, but it still troubles me nevertheless.
		
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Yes I hope they don’t get Antonio!😁

I went yesterday and thought we looked pretty good, Benrahma was excellent but it was disappointing to just see the same old faces though, the lack of action on the striker front is more than just worrying. It's getting ridiculous.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2021)

Messi's press conference ❤
Held it together really well until they gave him a standing ovation and he broke down.

Clear he doesn't really want to leave but the years of poor signings has finally caught up with them.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 8, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Messi's press conference ❤
Held it together really well until they gave him a standing ovation and he broke down.

*Clear he doesn't really want to leave but the years of poor signings has finally caught up with them.*

Click to expand...

The poor signings... well, that and paying him so much money that everyone who isn't him and playing every week asks for a pay rise when he gets one. I'm convinced Barcelona were hoping to call La Liga's bluff in that the league would lose its prized asset the rule was magically changed or circumvented.


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## Piece (Aug 8, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			The poor signings... well, that and paying him so much money that everyone who isn't him and playing every week asks for a pay rise when he gets one. I'm convinced Barcelona were hoping to call La Liga's bluff in that the league would lose its prized asset the rule was magically changed or circumvented.
		
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15 months ago, he couldn’t wait to leave.

Despite the lovely sentiments at the presser, it would be interesting to know what financial model would have worked to keep Messi.


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## GG26 (Aug 8, 2021)

Unfortunately, it’s been reported that Fofana has ligament damage now that they’ve been able to do a scan, which is a further blow. Six months minimum on the sidelines and I suspect that’s the season gone for him.


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## pendodave (Aug 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Yes I hope they don’t get Antonio!😁

I went yesterday and thought we looked pretty good, Benrahma was excellent but it was disappointing to just see the same old faces though, the lack of action on the striker front is more than just worrying. It's getting ridiculous.
		
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Iron(!) Mike's dodgy hammies are all that stands between us and a flirtation with relegation. 
My son went yesterday - had a great day out and echoes your remarks re. the performance.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2021)

GG26 said:



			Unfortunately, it’s been reported that Fofana has ligament damage now that they’ve been able to do a scan, which is a further blow. Six months minimum on the sidelines and I suspect that’s the season gone for him.
		
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That's tough on the player. Psychologically having to deal with a season missed at this point in his career is brutal. Hopefully he will come back okay.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2021)

Piece said:



			15 months ago, he couldn’t wait to leave.

Despite the lovely sentiments at the presser, it would be interesting to know what financial model would have worked to keep Messi.
		
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If the issue is purely money, and based on what he must have in the bank, why not get paid the wage of the lowest paid member of the squad? It's crocodile tears if the ability to stay is there but money is the sticking point.


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## Crazyface (Aug 8, 2021)

Macclesfield FC have started well in there new league of NW Counties Premier. 1-0 last week in the league and a 4-0 win this week in the FA Cup.


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## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Spurs sign Christian Romero from Atalanta, never heard of him but he was voted best defender in Seire A last season so must be a good signing.
		
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I'm in the same boat as you - didn't watch any Atalanta games, but if he's been voted Serie A defender of the year, and then won the Copa America starting for Argentina, he must be doing something right. We had to get that one over the line having let Toby leave. Next up we're hopefully bringing in Tomiyasu, the Japanese right back who can also play in the middle. He's meant to be solid as well. Only thing to watch out for is bringing in a whole new defence and none of them speak English.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 8, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Iron(!) Mike's dodgy hammies are all that stands between us and a flirtation with relegation.
My son went yesterday - had a great day out and echoes your remarks re. the performance.
		
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I don't buy the relegation part at all

Bowen will be deployed as back up striker if Ness 

Last season we played without Antonio when injured and still did well , lingard is a bigger miss 

We will finish top half comfortably


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## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm in the same boat as you - didn't watch any Atalanta games, but if he's been voted Serie A defender of the year, and then won the Copa America starting for Argentina, he must be doing something right. We had to get that one over the line having let Toby leave. Next up we're hopefully bringing in Tomiyasu, the Japanese right back who can also play in the middle. He's meant to be solid as well. Only thing to watch out for is bringing in a whole new defence and none of them speak English. 

Click to expand...

The person to ask would be Italian outcast..he lives near Bergamo which is where atalanta play. He may well know all about him if football is his thing, as well as golf. Never met an Italian yet who has not been passionate about football.


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## Kellfire (Aug 8, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Spurs sign Christian Romero from Atalanta, never heard of him but he was voted best defender in Seire A last season so must be a good signing.
		
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He’s a good player but plays very aggressively. He’ll pick up a lot of yellow cards.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			He’s a good player but plays very aggressively. He’ll pick up a lot of yellow cards.
		
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Well, now Lamela has left there is a gap in the team for such a player 😆


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## Rlburnside (Aug 8, 2021)

Good to hear that the Spurs fans gave Saka a round of applause and he appreciated that. 

Never thought I would see the day Spurs fans would applaud a Arsenal player 😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2021)

Balon D’Or Nominations 

Kante 
Jorginho 
Messi 🤦‍♂️
Ronaldo 🤦‍♂️
Lewondonski 
Neymar 
Kane 😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## 4LEX (Aug 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm in the same boat as you - didn't watch any Atalanta games, but if he's been voted Serie A defender of the year, and then won the Copa America starting for Argentina, he must be doing something right. We had to get that one over the line having let Toby leave. Next up we're hopefully bringing in Tomiyasu, the Japanese right back who can also play in the middle. He's meant to be solid as well. Only thing to watch out for is bringing in a whole new defence and none of them speak English. 

Click to expand...

Expect a lot of good signings with the Paratici at the club.

Atalanta have been one of the best teams to watch over the last few years and Romaro's been quality at the back. Would've thought Nuno would be tapping up Coady too.


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## 4LEX (Aug 8, 2021)

Piece said:



			15 months ago, he couldn’t wait to leave.

Despite the lovely sentiments at the presser, it would be interesting to know what financial model would have worked to keep Messi.
		
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He had issues with the former president which were well founded given the criminal amount of money that's been wasted at the club over the last 3-4 years. Everything seemed to be back on track with a new president, Aguero and Depay coming in and a new deal on reduced wages. Given Real's financial woes Barcelona would've won La Liga this season.

It does seem bizzare that he loves the club so much he wouldn't play out one season for free, sign off with a title and a proper farewell. He's already got more money than anyone in football bar Ronaldo and ironically Martin Brathwaite (who has a property company worth £200m), the player that sums up Barcelona's transfer distasters.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 8, 2021)

4LEX said:



			He had issues with the former president which were well founded given the criminal amount of money that's been wasted at the club over the last 3-4 years. Everything seemed to be back on track with a new president, Aguero and Depay coming in and a new deal on reduced wages. Given Real's financial woes Barcelona would've won La Liga this season.

It does seem bizzare that he loves the club so much he wouldn't play out one season for free, sign off with a title and a proper farewell. He's already got more money than anyone in football bar Ronaldo and ironically Martin Brathwaite (who has a property company worth £200m), the player that sums up Barcelona's transfer distasters.
		
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From the reading into the situation I've done even if he played for 1 euro a week Barca could get him in as they are over the 70% wage cap (they are at 95% apparently)


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## 4LEX (Aug 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			From the reading into the situation I've done even if he played for 1 euro a week Barca could get him in as they are over the 70% wage cap (they are at 95% apparently)
		
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Not sure how that all works as Barca have already added two players for free on big wages this summer, surely Messi re-signing on 1 Euro a week wouldn't impact that. And they're not on a transfer embargo.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 8, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Not sure how that all works as Barca have already added two players for free on big wages this summer, surely Messi re-signing on 1 Euro a week wouldn't impact that. And they're not on a transfer embargo.
		
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Ah here it is found out why 

There is a law in Spain that any free transfer / new contract has to be at minimum 50% of previous wage to stop finical fiddling

They can't afford 50%


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## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Ah here it is found out why

There is a law in Spain that any free transfer / new contract has to be at minimum 50% of previous wage to stop finical fiddling

They can't afford 50%
		
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I think part of the problem with the Messi situation is that Barca expected players to go. Hence a reduction in wages. None have.


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## Kellfire (Aug 8, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Not sure how that all works as Barca have already added two players for free on big wages this summer, surely Messi re-signing on 1 Euro a week wouldn't impact that. And they're not on a transfer embargo.
		
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As it stands they can’t register those players because they won’t be allowed a wage budget they can currently stay within.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2021)

😂😂😂


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## 4LEX (Aug 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think part of the problem with the Messi situation is that Barca expected players to go. Hence a reduction in wages. None have.
		
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That's the problem with bad signings and high wages - impossible to shift. Griezmann is the one who refused to leave and take a wage cut but you can't blame him. I expect he won't play many minutes for Barcelona this season and end up on loan at Arsenal or Inter.

I can't honestly believe how Barcelona managed to pay a combined £350m for Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann. All three have given almost zero back and have picked up £200m plus in wages over that time. Although they've been better value than Mendy


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## 4LEX (Aug 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 37930

😂😂😂
		
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To be fair he is refusing to buy a striker and sticking with Torres.


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## SaintHacker (Aug 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 37930

😂😂😂
		
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https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-...pps-transfer-comments-2016-liverpool-alisson/


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-...pps-transfer-comments-2016-liverpool-alisson/

Click to expand...

Do you have the link that doesn’t point to an article in the scum


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## SaintHacker (Aug 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you have the link that doesn’t point to an article in the scum
		
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https://www.sportbible.com/football...as-89-million-transfer-to-man-united-20180717


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## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2021)

I think I r


4LEX said:



			That's the problem with bad signings and high wages - impossible to shift. Griezmann is the one who refused to leave and take a wage cut but you can't blame him. I expect he won't play many minutes for Barcelona this season and end up on loan at Arsenal or Inter.

I can't honestly believe how Barcelona managed to pay a combined £350m for Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann. All three have given almost zero back and have picked up £200m plus in wages over that time. Although they've been better value than Mendy 

Click to expand...

Am sure I read somewhere that if couthino plays X number of games, Liverpool get another lump sum. Something Barca can ill afford.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2021)

Apparently Aguero is out for 10wks,not a good wk for Barca 😬


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think I r

Am sure I read somewhere that if couthino plays X number of games, Liverpool get another lump sum. Something Barca can ill afford.
		
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barcelona don’t any more money to Liverpool


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



https://www.sportbible.com/football...as-89-million-transfer-to-man-united-20180717

Click to expand...

You not finding this one as hilarious as the Pep one you posted LP?😉


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## Bamberdele21 (Aug 9, 2021)

Hello I’m a bit late to this thread and new to the forum. Are there any fantasy.premier leagues in here or does anyone know of any (especially ones where there is a buy in).

Thanks all


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## Orikoru (Aug 10, 2021)

Bamberdele21 said:



			Hello I’m a bit late to this thread and new to the forum. Are there any fantasy.premier leagues in here or does anyone know of any (especially ones where there is a buy in).

Thanks all
		
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https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/21-22-fantasy-football-league-is-open.109669/


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425034569368195084
£35mil a year Net ! 

Seems like they are happy to ignore FFP and then just pay the fine


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## Beezerk (Aug 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425034569368195084
£35mil a year Net !

Seems like they are happy to ignore FFP and then just pay the fine
		
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Reminds me of the Ozzie Osborne song No More Tears 😪🤣


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## IanM (Aug 10, 2021)

Just heard Simon Jordon the radio refer to PSG as "a Faberge Egg" of a football club. Good analogy.   Worth a king's ransom, but generally pointless!!    I worked in Paris, you'd be forgiven for not knowing football was played there.  It's weird.


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## Orikoru (Aug 10, 2021)

Easy life for Messi. Probably bang 40 goals in the league next season. I want to know what happens if PSG meet Barca in the Champs League though. Can he bring himself to play? I suppose he'll have to but I foresee a poor performance from him.


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## GB72 (Aug 10, 2021)

I just do not get it, tearful press conference, total love for Barcelona so, what are your options. Retire and stay faithful to your beloved club, go and perhaps play for your boyhood club in Argentina, take a one year contract to give Barca time to sort things out then go back next year or be a free agent until that happens or ...........................................................take the 35 million a year contract at a team rivalling your beloved Barcelona in European competitions.

How do fans of a club accept a player who held a press conference like he did then moves to your club when he clearly has not a care for the people he is playing for now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I just do not get it, tearful press conference, total love for Barcelona so, what are your options. Retire and stay faithful to your beloved club, go and perhaps play for your boyhood club in Argentina, take a one year contract to give Barca time to sort things out then go back next year or be a free agent until that happens or ...........................................................take the 35 million a year contract at a team rivalling your beloved Barcelona in European competitions.

How do fans of a club accept a player who held a press conference like he did then moves to your club when he clearly has not a care for the people he is playing for now.
		
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I think fans now know there is zero loyalty in football - the players chase the money and there are clubs out there that can give it 
a lot of Barcelona issues are down to the level of contract he had at the club - he contributed to their money issues

He couldn’t even play a year for free because they still need to get rid of some players on huge wages. 

I’m glad to see La Liga are sticking to their wage rules and wish that the Prem would introduce something like it and indeed every league


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## Kellfire (Aug 10, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Apparently Aguero is out for 10wks,not a good wk for Barca 😬
		
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Aguero can’t play for Barcelona yet anyway as they aren’t allowed to register him with their current financial situation.


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## GB72 (Aug 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think fans now know there is zero loyalty in football - the players chase the money and there are clubs out there that can give it
a lot of Barcelona issues are down to the level of contract he had at the club - he contributed to their money issues

He couldn’t even play a year for free because they still need to get rid of some players on huge wages.

I’m glad to see La Liga are sticking to their wage rules and wish that the Prem would introduce something like it and indeed every league
		
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True but the OTT press conference. A fine analogy would be someone whose loses there wife, professes love at the fiuneral and marries the rich widow next door 2 days later.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2021)

GB72 said:



			True but the OTT press conference. A fine analogy would be someone whose loses there wife, professes love at the fiuneral and marries the rich widow next door 2 days later.
		
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Oh i agree totally but it doesn’t surprise me one bit


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## Orikoru (Aug 10, 2021)

GB72 said:



			True but the OTT press conference. A fine analogy would be someone whose loses there wife, professes love at the fiuneral and marries the rich widow next door 2 days later.
		
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What did you expect him to do? It's not like he's past it, to go and play in an irrelevant league in another continent. He has maybe 2-3 more years at the top, and he still wants to play in the Champion's League for those years presumably. He'd rather be doing that at Barca but it's not an option.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 10, 2021)

Blimey it’s all kicking off on Twitter between the Liverpool fans over the lack of action in the transfer market 😂😂😂

#FSGOUT 😂😂😂


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 10, 2021)

Familiar name among the subs for Birmingham in tonight's League Cup tie.

A lad called Bellingham. 

Younger brother and not 16 for a couple of weeks. Just hope that expectations don't weigh too heavy.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 10, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Blimey it’s all kicking off on Twitter between the Liverpool fans over the lack of action in the transfer market 😂😂😂

#FSGOUT 😂😂😂
		
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Let them crack on. It's not like it was a surprise this summer. 

Fill the big CB shaped hole in the squad, make some room in the squad for potential further signings and then look to fill those holes. As it stands we have no room in the squad for non-homegrown players, so the likes of Origi and Shaqiri were always going to be in the shop window. If those 2 leave, we might get a forward in. If they don't, we won't. it's super simple. 

Apparently renewing contracts for Trent, Fabinho and Alisson doesn't count as "money the club spends" either... Even though there's probably another £200k pw+ the club wasn't spending last year!


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 10, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Familiar name among the subs for Birmingham in tonight's League Cup tie.

A lad called Bellingham.

Younger brother and not 16 for a couple of weeks. Just hope that expectations don't weigh too heavy.
		
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That is a bit young to be playing with seasoned pros.
Good luck to him though.
Hope he gets on and scores the winner ,that is really something to remember.


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## Orikoru (Aug 11, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Let them crack on. It's not like it was a surprise this summer.

Fill the big CB shaped hole in the squad, make some room in the squad for potential further signings and then look to fill those holes. As it stands we have no room in the squad for non-homegrown players, so the likes of Origi and Shaqiri were always going to be in the shop window. If those 2 leave, we might get a forward in. If they don't, we won't. it's super simple.

Apparently renewing contracts for Trent, Fabinho and Alisson doesn't count as "money the club spends" either... Even though there's probably another £200k pw+ the club wasn't spending last year!
		
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To be honest there isn't much wrong with the squad, obviously last year the problem was having to play your midfield in defence. But with Van Dijk back and Konate coming in, that problem should be more-or-less solved. Wijnaldum is gone, but who knows, maybe Oxlade can stay fit for once and plug that gap. I guess the only worry is that Lukaku joining Chelsea improves them a huge amount.


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## ger147 (Aug 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To be honest there isn't much wrong with the squad, obviously last year the problem was having to play your midfield in defence. But with Van Dijk back and Konate coming in, that problem should be more-or-less solved. Wijnaldum is back, but who knows, maybe Oxlade can stay fit for once and plug that gap. I guess the only worry is that Lukaku joining Chelsea improves them a huge amount.
		
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Wijnaldum has gone, he has joined PSG.


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## Kellfire (Aug 11, 2021)

ger147 said:



			Wijnaldum has gone, he has joined PSG.
		
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I think he knows judging by what he said next.


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## Orikoru (Aug 11, 2021)

ger147 said:



			Wijnaldum has gone, he has joined PSG.
		
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Yeah that's what I meant, hence the rest of that sentence. I had a few things arse-about-face in that post actually, but I knew what I meant.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 11, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That is a bit young to be playing with seasoned pros.
Good luck to him though.
Hope he gets on and scores the winner ,that is really something to remember.
		
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The older Bellingham was only 16 yrs 1 month when he made his debut.

Trevor Francis was getting on and was 16 yrs 4m when he first appeared. Mind you he was nearly 17 before he scored 4 goals in a game against Bolton. 

If they are good enough then they are old enough.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Let them crack on. It's not like it was a surprise this summer.

Fill the big CB shaped hole in the squad, make some room in the squad for potential further signings and then look to fill those holes. As it stands we have no room in the squad for non-homegrown players, so the likes of Origi and Shaqiri were always going to be in the shop window. If those 2 leave, we might get a forward in. If they don't, we won't. it's super simple.

Apparently renewing contracts for Trent, Fabinho and Alisson doesn't count as "money the club spends" either... Even though there's probably another £200k pw+ the club wasn't spending last year!
		
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I’m happy to see us being written off by many - will make winning all the more sweeter 😁

Having a full fit squad is huge and even more so when they have all had a good rest and a proper pre season , a lot of players look very sharp at the moment 

I think one more signing would be good but it’s not essential


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## 4LEX (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpool need a new dimension upfront, the attack has become very predictable. We saw how much Jota improved it early on last season before getting injured. Kane up top with the service from the full backs and wingers would make them very tough to stop. It does strike you that they've got complacent and recent transfers have been budget ones and more miss than hit.

Season depends on Jota/Firmino getting 40 goals between them and Thiago to be vastly better.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool need a new dimension upfront, the attack has become very predictable. We saw how much Jota improved it early on last season before getting injured. Kane up top with the service from the full backs and wingers would make them very tough to stop. *It does strike you that they've got complacent and recent transfers have been budget ones and more miss than hit.*

Season depends on Jota/Firmino getting 40 goals between them and Thiago to be vastly better.
		
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Which transfers are you talking about 🤷‍♂️


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## Orikoru (Aug 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool need a new dimension upfront, the attack has become very predictable. We saw how much Jota improved it early on last season before getting injured. Kane up top with the service from the full backs and wingers would make them very tough to stop. It does strike you that they've got complacent and recent transfers have been budget ones and more miss than hit.

*Season depends on Jota/Firmino getting 40 goals between them* and Thiago to be vastly better.
		
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Does it? Firmino only got 9 when they won the league? Probably more dependant on a return to form for Mané.


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## 4LEX (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which transfers are you talking about 🤷‍♂️
		
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Thiago 
Minamino
Tsimikas
Davies

Budget signings and haven't added anything. You won the CL and the title then the spending has dried up. Would you be a better team with Kane or Lukaku upfront?


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## 4LEX (Aug 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Does it? Firmino only got 9 when they won the league? Probably more dependant on a return to form for Mané.
		
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You could also argue both of those players are on a downward trend, along with Firmino. Grealish on the left for Liverpool would be far more effective there at at City.  Shake things up, add a new dimension. Ditto Sancho on the right.

Liverpool are a great team with a great manager, however the facts are the big spending has stopped and they should be investing more if they don't want to be left behind. Man Utd have a better first eleven and squad now, it's just the manager that is the difference. Theres a lot of pressure on VVD to fix everything, however as we've seen from the injury to Robertson, injuries can't be accounted for and the depth isn't really there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Thiago
Minamino
Tsimikas
Davies

Budget signings and haven't added anything. You won the CL and the title then the spending has dried up. Would you be a better team with Kane or Lukaku upfront?
		
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Tsimikas was bought as back up to Robbo who plays every week - he will now start with Robbo out injured 

Thiago was out injured for significant period last season but came back in towards the end and show his class 

Davies hasn’t played yet 

Minamino is prob the one who is still unknown but clearly needed to take time to get used to the Prem - 

Just a touch early to be writing them off especially with last seasons issues 

As for Lukaku and Kane - Lukaku is not the sort of player the manager would look at , and potentially not Kane as well. 

We don’t work with a “goalscoring 9” - the reason Salah and Mane both so well is because of the way Firmino plays - bring in a “no 9” would impact their affect within the team 


4LEX said:



			You could also argue both of those players are on a downward trend, along with Firmino. Grealish on the left for Liverpool would be far more effective there at at City.  Shake things up, add a new dimension. Ditto Sancho on the right.

Liverpool are a great team with a great manager, however the facts are the big spending has stopped and they should be investing more if they don't want to be left behind. Man Utd have a better first eleven and squad now, it's just the manager that is the difference. Theres a lot of pressure on VVD to fix everything, however as we've seen from the injury to Robertson, injuries can't be accounted for and the depth isn't really there.
		
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Downward trend 🤷‍♂️ Based on what ? One injury hit season? 

Liverpool aren’t a “big spending club” unless players leave for big money - and sorry but Man Utd first 11 is not better than Liverpool’s - even without a significant amount of first choice players UTD get a bit of a thumping towards the end of last a season 

The back 5 and prob midfield is far better than Utd’s and even the front 3 - fully fit and in form there isn’t many if any utd players who imo would get into Liverpool’s first 11


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## Orikoru (Aug 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			You could also argue both of those players are on a downward trend, along with Firmino. Grealish on the left for Liverpool would be far more effective there at at City.  Shake things up, add a new dimension. Ditto Sancho on the right.

Liverpool are a great team with a great manager, however the facts are the big spending has stopped and they should be investing more if they don't want to be left behind. *Man Utd have a better first eleven* and squad now, it's just the manager that is the difference. Theres a lot of pressure on VVD to fix everything, however as we've seen from the injury to Robertson, injuries can't be accounted for and the depth isn't really there.
		
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I found this an interesting comment in bold so I want to analyse it. 

De Gea < *Alisson*
Wan-Bissaka < *Trent*
Shaw = Robertson
Varane < *Van Dijk
Maguire *> Konate/Gomez
McTominay < *Fabinho
Pogba *> Henderson
*Bruno F* > Thiago
Rashford < *Mane
Cavani *> Firmino
Sancho < *Salah*

Ok they're not like for like and the line-up is changeable, but I certainly wouldn't say United's first 11 was better. I have it 6-4 in favour of Liverpool with one tie.  You could say Varane - Van Dijk should be a tie though, maybe.


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## AmandaJR (Aug 11, 2021)




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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I found this an interesting comment in bold so I want to analyse it. 

De Gea < *Alisson*
Wan-Bissaka < *Trent*
Shaw = Robertson
Varane < *Van Dijk
Maguire *> Konate/Gomez
McTominay < *Fabinho
Pogba *> Henderson
*Bruno F* > Thiago
Rashford < *Mane
Cavani *> Firmino
Sancho < *Salah*

Ok they're not like for like and the line-up is changeable, but I certainly wouldn't say United's first 11 was better. I have it 6-4 in favour of Liverpool with one tie.  You could say Varane - Van Dijk should be a tie though, maybe.
		
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I certainly wouldn’t take Maguire over Gomez - Gomez has the one thing that Maguire gets exposed against - Pace.

And Shaw equal to Robertson - no chance for me 

If going by ability Pogba is better than Henderson but he hasn’t applied it in the Prem 

Cavani and Firmino just aren’t like for like and in the set up we have then it’s Firmino- but Cavani 6 years ago would be superb 
Fernandes is one player but he is another that I don’t think suits the set up


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## harpo_72 (Aug 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I found this an interesting comment in bold so I want to analyse it. 

De Gea < *Alisson*
Wan-Bissaka < *Trent*
Shaw = Robertson
Varane < *Van Dijk
Maguire *> Konate/Gomez
McTominay < *Fabinho
Pogba *> Henderson
*Bruno F* > Thiago
Rashford < *Mane
Cavani *> Firmino
Sancho < *Salah*

Ok they're not like for like and the line-up is changeable, but I certainly wouldn't say United's first 11 was better. I have it 6-4 in favour of Liverpool with one tie.  You could say Varane - Van Dijk should be a tie though, maybe.
		
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Interesting do you think shaw and Robertson are equal? They are both good though. 
But it does show what weaknesses both teams have .. would be interesting to go further and look at how many different team shapes those 11 could comfortably play. I would argue that Pogba is pretty much mono dimensional and would sacrifice him on selection for midfielder that can play defensively and offensively… I know that’s a controversial statement but I see him as an occasional performer who lacks motivation


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 11, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			The older Bellingham was only 16 yrs 1 month when he made his debut.

Trevor Francis was getting on and was 16 yrs 4m when he first appeared. Mind you he was nearly 17 before he scored 4 goals in a game against Bolton.

If they are good enough then they are old enough.
		
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Yes totally agree.
I was just thinking about when I was 15/16 I played against Grown men 
I was like a child against a grown man .
But young men are more prepared these days.
Did he get on , how did he do. ?


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## 4LEX (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Tsimikas was bought as back up to Robbo who plays every week - he will now start with Robbo out injured

Thiago was out injured for significant period last season but came back in towards the end and show his class

Davies hasn’t played yet

Minamino is prob the one who is still unknown but clearly needed to take time to get used to the Prem -

Just a touch early to be writing them off especially with last seasons issues

As for Lukaku and Kane - Lukaku is not the sort of player the manager would look at , and potentially not Kane as well.

We don’t work with a “goalscoring 9” - the reason Salah and Mane both so well is because of the way Firmino plays - bring in a “no 9” would impact their affect within the team


Downward trend 🤷‍♂️ Based on what ? One injury hit season?

Liverpool aren’t a “big spending club” unless players leave for big money - and sorry but Man Utd first 11 is not better than Liverpool’s - even without a significant amount of first choice players UTD get a bit of a thumping towards the end of last a season

The back 5 and prob midfield is far better than Utd’s and even the front 3 - fully fit and in form there isn’t many if any utd players who imo would get into Liverpool’s first 11
		
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I get that but the fact is since 2018 you've not bought a really big name player. You say Klopp isn't about big names but Allison and VVD made the difference. Both big names and huge transfer fees.

I think both strikers would fit and be a huge improvement. Lukaku isn't a targetman and plays better with balls infront, ideal with your full backs and inverted wingers cutting in playing balls into the channel. Kane isn't a number 9 either, he's basically a cross between Firmino and Lukaku. Better at linking play, faster, stronger, better finisher and can head. The owners have tied Klopps hands and stopped the money coming in.

With no injuries and everything going well you can definitelty win the title or the CL. My argument is with more investment you'd be a better bet.

I think Utd have a better defence, midfield again too. Although slightly unbalanced given Pogba and Bruno with no DM. I think a lot of people will be shocked at how good Sancho is. Rashford has been injured for 2 years and still delivering better stats than Sane on the left (last season). Back fit after the op and it's a game changer. Utd's main weakness is upfront - relying on a near 35 year old to lead the line and back up who isn't good enough. I'd put Liverpool above Utd due to the manager quality though.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 11, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



View attachment 37964

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Not many of them would get in Liverpool’s team either 
I would have KDB though.


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## Orikoru (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I certainly wouldn’t take Maguire over Gomez - Gomez has the one thing that Maguire gets exposed against - Pace.

And Shaw equal to Robertson - no chance for me

If going by ability Pogba is better than Henderson but he hasn’t applied it in the Prem

Cavani and Firmino just aren’t like for like and in the set up we have then it’s Firmino- but Cavani 6 years ago would be superb
Fernandes is one player but he is another that I don’t think suits the set up
		
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So I ruled in favour of Liverpool but that wasn't good enough for you, you literally picked apart all my Man Utd picks.  Classic.

Before the Euros I'd have said Robertson, but Shaw was so good there he went up in my estimation. I still think Cavani is world class because of his movement and a better player than Firmino.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I get that but the fact is since 2018 you've not bought a really big name player. You say Klopp isn't about big names but Allison and VVD made the difference. Both big names and huge transfer fees.

I think both strikers would fit and be a huge improvement. Lukaku isn't a targetman and plays better with balls infront, ideal with your full backs and inverted wingers cutting in playing balls into the channel. Kane isn't a number 9 either, he's basically a cross between Firmino and Lukaku. Better at linking play, faster, stronger, better finisher and can head. The owners have tied Klopps hands and stopped the money coming in.

With no injuries and everything going well you can definitelty win the title or the CL. My argument is with more investment you'd be a better bet.

I think Utd have a better defence, midfield again too. Although slightly unbalanced given Pogba and Bruno with no DM. I think a lot of people will be shocked at how good Sancho is. Rashford has been injured for 2 years and still delivering better stats than Sane on the left (last season). Back fit after the op and it's a game changer. Utd's main weakness is upfront - relying on a near 35 year old to lead the line and back up who isn't good enough. I'd put Liverpool above Utd due to the manager quality though.
		
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Thiago is a big name player 🤷‍♂️ We got him at a good price because his contract was running out 

And the owners don’t ever supply money to the manager to spend - the club works within a self sufficient model , it spends what it makes , the owner hasn’t put money into the club for buying players and won’t ever do 

Right now the club aren’t spending due to squad limits 

Last year we lost 3 CBs through season ending injuries and still had a better defensive record than UTD - that was with CB’s like Phillips and Williams playing. 

Pogba has not proved himself on any consistent basis throughout his time at UTD - he is a luxury player who doesn’t do enough to justify it

Rashford vs Mane - mane last season had his worst season for his and lost form but again still wasn’t too far behind Rashford 

https://www.fctables.com/sadio_mane-vs-marcus_rashford-308503-277575/

Sancho is a very good player and did well for Dortmund- he now needs to do it regularly in the Prem


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I get that but the fact is since 2018 you've not bought a really big name player. You say Klopp isn't about big names but Allison and VVD made the difference. Both big names and huge transfer fees.

I think both strikers would fit and be a huge improvement. Lukaku isn't a targetman and plays better with balls infront, ideal with your full backs and inverted wingers cutting in playing balls into the channel. Kane isn't a number 9 either, he's basically a cross between Firmino and Lukaku. Better at linking play, faster, stronger, better finisher and can head. The owners have tied Klopps hands and stopped the money coming in.

With no injuries and everything going well you can definitelty win the title or the CL. My argument is with more investment you'd be a better bet.

I think Utd have a better defence, midfield again too. Although slightly unbalanced given Pogba and Bruno with no DM. I think a lot of people will be shocked at how good Sancho is. Rashford has been injured for 2 years and still delivering better stats than Sane on the left (last season). Back fit after the op and it's a game changer. Utd's main weakness is upfront - relying on a near 35 year old to lead the line and back up who isn't good enough. I'd put Liverpool above Utd due to the manager quality though.
		
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I agree with the striker .
We wrre very predictable last season.
But hard to judge a team with so many players missing for most of it.
When all the lads are on form they are great but we still need an alternative to change things but we havnt got one.
Kane would be a world beater in Liverpool imo. He can finish Firmino can’t.
As long as he dosnt play like he did in the Euros.


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## 4LEX (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thiago is a big name player 🤷‍♂️ We got him at a good price because his contract was running out

And the owners don’t ever supply money to the manager to spend - the club works within a self sufficient model , it spends what it makes , the owner hasn’t put money into the club for buying players and won’t ever do

Right now the club aren’t spending due to squad limits

Last year we lost 3 CBs through season ending injuries and still had a better defensive record than UTD - that was with CB’s like Phillips and Williams playing.

*Pogba has not proved himself on any consistent basis throughout his time at UTD - he is a luxury player who doesn’t do enough to justify it

Rashford vs Mane - mane last season had his worst season for his and lost form but again still wasn’t too far behind Rashford

https://www.fctables.com/sadio_mane-vs-marcus_rashford-308503-277575/

Sancho is a very good player and did well for Dortmund- he now needs to do it regularly in the Prem*

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Pogba is a clown who will run his contract down and cause a lot of trouble but he's one of the best midfielders on his day. I think he'll play for a big move and have a good season.

Rashford is 6 years younger, was injured and had a bad season too yet was way more effective. Criminally underrated.

Sancho will be unstoppable.


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## Kellfire (Aug 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			So I ruled in favour of Liverpool but that wasn't good enough for you, you literally picked apart all my Man Utd picks.  Classic.

Before the Euros I'd have said Robertson, but Shaw was so good there he went up in my estimation. I still think Cavani is world class because of his movement and a better player than Firmino.
		
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Point Phil towards last year’s league table if you’re having trouble.


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## Hobbit (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And the owners don’t ever supply money to the manager to spend - the club works within a self sufficient model , it spends what it makes , the owner hasn’t put money into the club for buying players and won’t ever do
		
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Profit 2019 = £42m
Loss 2020 = £49m

2021, estimated at a loss of £139m.

The current club debt is estimated at over £300m.

Further, the club isn’t self-sufficient, needing a large, secured loan from FSG in the last financial year. The interest rate being 1.21%. £71m of which has been paid back already.

Definitely not self-sufficient but in terms of their financial stability, only Chelsea is anywhere near as good. Arsenal being the poorest (financial) performer and Spurs not far behind.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Point Phil towards last year’s league table if you’re having trouble.
		
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Do you mean when we had unprecedented levels of injuries losing 3 CBs for the season ( still having a better defensive record than UTD ) - 5 Centre mids and a number of forwards out for significant periods and yet UTD only ended up 5 points ahead 🤷‍♂️

Maybe the better judge is when the main players are fit so the previous two seasons when UTD were 31 and 33 points behind a Liverpool team that didn’t suffer that level of injuries


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Profit 2019 = £42m
Loss 2020 = £49m

2021, estimated at a loss of £139m.

The current club debt is estimated at over £300m.

Further, the club isn’t self-sufficient, needing a large, secured loan from FSG in the last financial year. The interest rate being 1.21%. £71m of which has been paid back already.
		
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Do you mean the loan to fund the building of the main stand 🤷‍♂️

Or the credit facility that was taken out over Covid to help pay bills during the Covid break which a large chunk of it paid back 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....s/fsg-truth-liverpools-238m-debt-20485647.amp

The interest rates are being paid on the credit facility 

The £110mil loan from FSG to rebuild the main stand the interest rate is being paid by FSG which the loan being taken out in the US against them 



			Definitely not self-sufficient but in terms of their financial stability, only Chelsea is anywhere near as good. Arsenal being the poorest (financial) performer and Spurs not far behind.
		
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And they are self sufficient in terms of using the clubs income to finance any outgoings in regards wages , transfer etc - they don’t use loans or owners funding to buy players


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## AmandaJR (Aug 11, 2021)

Why do people keep engaging?? You'd get more joy banging your head against a brick wall...

Anyway, happy days...


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## Kellfire (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you mean when we had unprecedented levels of injuries losing 3 CBs for the season ( still having a better defensive record than UTD ) - 5 Centre mids and a number of forwards out for significant periods and yet UTD only ended up 5 points ahead 🤷‍♂️

Maybe the better judge is when the main players are fit so the previous two seasons when UTD were 31 and 33 points behind a Liverpool team that didn’t suffer that level of injuries
		
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 We had one good player last season and you didn’t rate him. So even with those injuries you’re better, surely?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			We had one good player last season and you didn’t rate him. So even with those injuries you’re better, surely?
		
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Fernandes is a good player - I just wouldn’t have him in our starting 11 if all are fit with the tactics the manager employs - he certainly takes a great pen but I don’t know if he has done enough in the big game


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 11, 2021)

I keep hearing the excuse about Liverpool’s injuries,but it’s not like they were leaking goals,lots of missed chances in front of goal was also the problem 🤷‍♂️


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## Beezerk (Aug 11, 2021)

Wow the red goggles have been double super glued on already and the season hasn't even started yet 😂


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## fundy (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Fernandes is a good player - I just wouldn’t have him in our starting 11 if all are fit with the tactics the manager employs - he certainly takes a great pen but I don’t know if he has done enough in the big game
		
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lol yeah i wouldnt pick Kane for Arsenal either Phil


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol yeah i wouldnt pick Kane for Arsenal either Phil 

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Do you not need a guy to sit deep and avoid the penalty area 😁


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## fundy (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you not need a guy to sit deep and avoid the penalty area 😁
		
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ill take the dives, mishits and 25 goals 

theres blinkers and then theres blinkers lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			ill take the dives, mishits and 25 goals 

theres blinkers and then theres blinkers lol
		
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Kane is a superb striker 👍 My post about the penalties was about Fernandes 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Kane is a superb striker 👍 My post about the penalties was about Fernandes 🤷‍♂️
		
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no your post was that you think hes not good enough for liverpools midfield, its as valid as me saying kane isnt good enough to play up front for us


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			no your post was that you think hes not good enough for liverpools midfield, its as valid as me saying kane isnt good enough to play up front for us 

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i said he is a good player but don’t think he would fit in with the tactics our manager employs and think he hasn’t done it in the big games - the stats aren’t great reading for his games against any of the “big 6” ( one penalty when they lost 6-1 )


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## fundy (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i said he is a good player but don’t think he would fit in with the tactics our manager employs and think he hasn’t done it in the big games - the stats aren’t great reading for his games against any of the “big 6” ( one penalty when they lost 6-1 )
		
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talk me through the 3 you have whose stats are better....................


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			talk me through the 3 you have whose stats are better....................
		
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Didn’t say we had three whose stats are better 🤷‍♂️

As I said in the tactics the manager employs our main midfield will be Fabinho , Henderson and Thiago - that’s the first choice three , he doesn’t set up for the “number 10” - That Fernandes plays as .
I don’t Fernandes as a player that good the manager would change his style of play to fit in


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## fundy (Aug 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didn’t say we had three whose stats are better 🤷‍♂️

As I said in the tactics the manager employs our main midfield will be Fabinho , Henderson and Thiago - that’s the first choice three , he doesn’t set up for the “number 10” - That Fernandes plays as .
		
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lol if you pick any of those 3 let alone all 3 ahead of him, good to see the blinkers are back before the seasons even started. you could offer all 3 of them to united for fernandes and theyd turn you down and with good reason!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol if you pick any of those 3 let alone all 3 ahead of him, good to see the blinkers are back before the seasons even started. you could offer all 3 of them to united for fernandes and theyd turn you down and with good reason!
		
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That’s fine - and yes I would pick all three over Fernandes with the way that Klopp has his midfield set up , it’s a more industrious midfield in the way they play . I’ll take a Kante or KDB though if they are going


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## ger147 (Aug 11, 2021)

Another trophy for Tuchel, good win for Chelsea to kick off their season.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s fine - and yes I would pick all three over Fernandes with the way that Klopp has his midfield set up , it’s a more industrious midfield in the way they play . I’ll take a Kante or KDB though if they are going
		
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Unbelievable Jeff 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂😂


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## Orikoru (Aug 12, 2021)

To be fair I wouldn't have Bruno in our team either, but only because he's a moaning see you next Tuesday and I hate his face, nothing to do with his football ability.


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## pendodave (Aug 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To be fair I wouldn't have Bruno in our team either, but only because he's a moaning see you next Tuesday and I hate his face, nothing to do with his football ability. 

Click to expand...

Agreed. I thought Herrera was the most annoying player in the league, but it turned out there's an endless supply of them...
I doubt many people give our lot much thought (irons), but i wonder if any of our players are similarly despised? Not sure any of them particularly deserve it.


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## Orikoru (Aug 12, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Agreed. I thought Herrera was the most annoying player in the league, but it turned out there's an endless supply of them...
I doubt many people give our lot much thought (irons), but i wonder if any of our players are similarly despised? Not sure any of them particularly deserve it.
		
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As a Spurs fan I feel well-placed to answer this.   But no, I think maybe Noble is the only one I dislike because he is the quintessential Hammer obviously. Possibly Rice would be irritating, but as he's become a mainstay of the England team already I let him off. Antonio seems a bit arrogant sometimes, for a guy who injured 60% of the time. But that's clutching at straws. 

While glancing at your squad I see Antonio has just been given number 9 now. I guess that's confirmation you're not buying a striker? Ha. Rice is still number 41, lol. I quite like it when first teamers keep their high numbers. Like how Ledley was always 26 for us.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 12, 2021)

I always found Lamela to be a real charmer 😆. Not sure any Spurs fan can turn their nose up at a player because of their antics. I mean, really?


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## Orikoru (Aug 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I always found Lamela to be a real charmer 😆. Not sure any Spurs fan can turn their nose up at a player because of their antics. I mean, really?
		
Click to expand...

Don't you speak ill of Erik. I loved him dearly.


----------



## pendodave (Aug 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As a Spurs fan I feel well-placed to answer this.   But no, I think maybe Noble is the only one I dislike because he is the quintessential Hammer obviously. Possibly Rice would be irritating, but as he's become a mainstay of the England team already I let him off. Antonio seems a bit arrogant sometimes, for a guy who injured 60% of the time. But that's clutching at straws.

While glancing at your squad I see Antonio has just been given number 9 now. I guess that's confirmation you're not buying a striker? Ha. Rice is still number 41, lol. I quite like it when first teamers keep their high numbers. Like how Ledley was always 26 for us.
		
Click to expand...

I think having Nobes on the list kinda proves my point. In a way it reflects badly on us, as I think the most successful teams are full of unpleasant scrotes tactically fouling their way through the 90 mins and buying cheap non-free kicks and pens.
C'est la vie .
And yes, our lack of any forward cover for a player who misses at least 10 games a season is a tad worrying.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2021)

pendodave said:



			I think having Nobes on the list kinda proves my point. In a way it reflects badly on us, as I think the most successful teams are full of unpleasant scrotes tactically fouling their way through the 90 mins and buying cheap non-free kicks and pens.
C'est la vie .
And yes, our lack of any forward cover for a player who misses at least 10 games a season is a tad worrying.
		
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You won’t like Grealish playing for City then.


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## pendodave (Aug 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You won’t like Grealish playing for City then.
		
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Fernandhino is the city player who winds me up.
I'm ambivalent on Grealish. I remember watching him vs Fulham a few years ago in the championship. He was getting a ton of stick from the villa fans iirc but kept going and scored a wonderful goal. It's hard to dislike someone who's dragged himself up with a pretty average team.
I think on balance I find constant tactical fouling more egregious than buying free kicks, but obviously both are profoundly depressing.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Fernandhino is the city player who winds me up.
I'm ambivalent on Grealish. I remember watching him vs Fulham a few years ago in the championship. He was getting a ton of stick from the villa fans iirc but kept going and scored a wonderful goal. It's hard to dislike someone who's dragged himself up with a pretty average team.
I think on balance I find constant tactical fouling more egregious than buying free kicks, but obviously both are profoundly depressing.
		
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What I find annoying is we can all see the tactical fouls especially Fernandinho ( other teams have them) so why can’t the referee.
He gets away with so many , others get booked after two.

Grealish holds the ball to long for me ,dosnt play his mates in when he should that’s why he gets so many fouls .
He draws players into stupid tackles.
But I would have him any day. He’s a rare player these days , someone who will take his man on and back himself to beat them.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Don't you speak ill of Erik. I loved him dearly. 

Click to expand...

Only a spurs fan could say that. For all others he is a Bruno 😆


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## pauljames87 (Aug 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As a Spurs fan I feel well-placed to answer this.   But no, I think maybe Noble is the only one I dislike because he is the quintessential Hammer obviously. Possibly Rice would be irritating, but as he's become a mainstay of the England team already I let him off. Antonio seems a bit arrogant sometimes, for a guy who injured 60% of the time. But that's clutching at straws.

While glancing at your squad I see Antonio has just been given number 9 now. I guess that's confirmation you're not buying a striker? Ha. Rice is still number 41, lol. I quite like it when first teamers keep their high numbers. Like how Ledley was always 26 for us.
		
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Has really annoyed me Antonio being number 9

He used to be a winger. All this he is a striker rubbish ...he misses far too many ,, he is a ball dozer but not an out and out striker 

Plus he been with us ages .. 30 suited him 

Just for crying out loud...


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## Slime (Aug 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I always found Lamela to be a real charmer 😆. Not sure any Spurs fan can turn their nose up at a player because of their antics. I mean, really?
		
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Yeah, and you can also add Son to the list!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 12, 2021)

Slime said:



			Yeah, and you can also add Son to the list!
		
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I thought he wasn't that type of player 🤔🙄


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought he wasn't that type of player 🤔🙄
		
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Ask Gomez.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought he wasn't that type of player 🤔🙄
		
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It's amazing how many players are "not that type of player". Every club usually has one or two that will be defended by their own fans as "not that type of player" but if the blinkers were taken off are actually exactly that type of player.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			It's amazing how many players are "not that type of player". Every club usually has one or two that will be defended by their own fans as "not that type of player" but if the blinkers were taken off are actually exactly that type of player.
		
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If you have to say 'they aren't that type of player' then the chances are that is exactly what they are. Son has left his mark, literally, on a few players. He is very much that type.


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## Orikoru (Aug 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you have to say 'they aren't that type of player' then the chances are that is exactly what they are. Son has left his mark, literally, on a few players. He is very much that type.
		
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Yeah, Son loves a niggle, but for the most part a lot of the best forwards in the world are like that. Suarez, Ronaldo, Mane, Rooney, Tevez (going back a bit), often they need that competitive edge to be as good as they are. Lamela was different though, he's just one of a kind. Like the mind of a 36-year-old English Sunday League midfielder trapped inside the body of a tricky Argentinian winger.  I am genuinely sad he's gone because he was pure entertainment.


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, Son loves a niggle, but for the most part a lot of the best forwards in the world are like that. Suarez, Ronaldo, Mane, Rooney, Tevez (going back a bit), often they need that competitive edge to be as good as they are. Lamela was different though, he's just one of a kind. Like the mind of a 36-year-old English Sunday League midfielder trapped inside the body of a tricky Argentinian winger.  I am genuinely sad he's gone because *he was pure entertainment.*

Click to expand...

No, he was pure filth.


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## Orikoru (Aug 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			No, he was pure filth.
		
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What's the difference?


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What's the difference? 

Click to expand...

Entertainers have oodles of talent, Lamela had very limited talent.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2021)

So looks like City are going to seal a deal for £130mil for Kane 

Apparently they have £300mil to spend because of winning the Prem ( despite it actually dropping from the year before )

And selling £150mil worth of youth players 🙄


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## Orikoru (Aug 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			Entertainers have oodles of talent, Lamela had very limited talent.
		
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That's not true, he scored two rabonas for God's sake! He had other talents as well, he was a really good defensive forward, always hassling players and trying to challenge them. It was no coincidence he was often used in the big derby games, he understood the rivalries and had more passion than some of our supposed born and bred Londoners. One of my favourite moments was when he stamped on Fabregas' hand. A genius.


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## Rlburnside (Aug 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So looks like City are going to seal a deal for £130mil for Kane 

Apparently they have £300mil to spend because of winning the Prem ( despite it actually dropping from the year before )

And selling £150mil worth of youth players 🙄
		
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David Ornstein a reporter that knows more than most other reporters regarding Spurs is still saying Spurs will not sell Kane. 

We shall see , Levy is playing hard ball and 130 million will hard to turn down.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			David Ornstein a reporter that knows more than most other reporters regarding Spurs is still saying Spurs will not sell Kane.

We shall see , Levy is playing hard ball and 130 million will hard to turn down.
		
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In this late in the day I will find it hard to see Spurs selling unless they have some players waiting to replace him already - but the whole saga isn’t great for the player but then I don’t think he will care tbh


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## Rlburnside (Aug 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In this late in the day I will find it hard to see Spurs selling unless they have some players waiting to replace him already - but the whole saga isn’t great for the player but then I don’t think he will care tbh
		
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We have 3 forwards lined up that will eat all of the money that Kane would bring, wrong timing now so close to the start of the season, not good for player or club, my gut feeling is that he will not go in this window.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2021)

Brentford v Arsenal on Sky1 if anyone’s interested.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 13, 2021)

Fabulous atmosphere at Brentford, the place is jumping. Great to have fans back in domestic football.

I am currently worried for Fundy though


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fabulous atmosphere at Brentford, the place is jumping. Great to have fans back in domestic football.

I am currently worried for Fundy though 

Click to expand...

Feels weird,but yeah definitely good to see.


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## fundy (Aug 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fabulous atmosphere at Brentford, the place is jumping. Great to have fans back in domestic football.

I am currently worried for Fundy though 

Click to expand...


its ok, im winning money and its not much of a shock lol, be lucky to have 0 points after 3 games if we lose tonight


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## Papas1982 (Aug 13, 2021)

Good start for White.....

Still no spot for Holding, whilst stones got to a euros final.... Maybe @sawtooth was wrong after all😉


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## 4LEX (Aug 13, 2021)

Arsenal, Everton and Newcastle are going to be comedy gold this season.

That's possibly the worst Arsenal side I've seen in 20 years.


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## Piece (Aug 13, 2021)

Arsenal need to step up second half otherwise Arsenal TV will be a cracking watch 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 13, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Still no spot for Holding, whilst stones got to a euros final.... Maybe @sawtooth was wrong after all😉
		
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The proposed brilliance of Holding is one of those series of posts that stuck with me. It certainly seems that in this instance the majority, ie everyone else on the thread at that time, were correct 😆


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## 4LEX (Aug 13, 2021)

Piece said:



			Arsenal need to step up second half otherwise Arsenal TV will be a cracking watch 😂
		
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Anyone watch The Overlap and Ty from Arsenal TV get his arse handed to him by Carragher?


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## Bazzatron (Aug 13, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Anyone watch The Overlap and Ty from Arsenal TV get his arse handed to him by Carragher?
		
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I did, thought the whole thing was a decent watch. That Utd fan seems to get everywhere.


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## SaintHacker (Aug 13, 2021)

Great to see the whole ground give Saka a standing ovation when he came on


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## SteveW86 (Aug 13, 2021)

Arteta has got his work cut out this season hasn’t he


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## Billysboots (Aug 13, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Arteta has got his work cut out this season hasn’t he
		
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If he’s not the first Premier League manager to get the sack this season I’ll be very surprised. They are a shockingly poor side.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 13, 2021)

How many Brentford fans are screenshotting the "As It Stands" league table this evening?


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## Dando (Aug 13, 2021)

Arsenals defending is in a worse state than my chipping


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## Piece (Aug 13, 2021)

Smith-Rowe and Tierney worlds above the rest of the Arsenal players tonight.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			If he’s not the first Premier League manager to get the sack this season I’ll be very surprised. They are a shockingly poor side.
		
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They also don't seem to have learnt a thing from last season. He reminds me of Marco Silva during his time at Everton. Pretty football, defensively awful, failed to fix the same defensive faults that happened time and time again. You can't keep repeating mistakes and expect to stay as manager.


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## 4LEX (Aug 13, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			I did, thought the whole thing was a decent watch. That Utd fan seems to get everywhere.
		
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It was really good wasn't it. They picked the crowd well and the Everton fan was brilliant. The presenter was spot on too, difficult job to manage the pundits and crowd but did it effortlessly. Roy Keane is just something special as a pundit. Why waste 100 words when 5 will suffice.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 13, 2021)

Chuffed to bits for the bees.


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## Piece (Aug 13, 2021)

Watched a lot of Brentford last season. Superb side to watch and have the ability to finish top 10. Their Achilles heel is their consistency; prone to long stretches of poor performances.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 13, 2021)

One match and Arsenal dropped 19 places! 😁


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## Swingalot (Aug 13, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Arteta has got his work cut out this season hasn’t he
		
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I think you'll find Arsenal will be cutting his work load in September.  They are a club in massive decline


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## 4LEX (Aug 13, 2021)

Pepe £75m  Without doubt the worst transfer deal in the football history.


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## fundy (Aug 13, 2021)

says everything that they send a 21 year old debutant out to do the interviews (like they did with ESR and Saka last year), any of the so called more senior players, maybe the so called captain want to front up?


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## Billysboots (Aug 13, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Pepe £75m  Without doubt the worst transfer deal in the football history.
		
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Hmmmm. There have been some shockers at United, too. £52m for Fred is a particular lowlight. I keep hoping that someone will remind him he’s Brazilian.


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Brentford v Arsenal on Sky1 if anyone’s interested.
		
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It should have been on The Comedy Channel.


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## Beezerk (Aug 13, 2021)

So that's Brentford relegated and Arsenal finishing top 6 then 😅


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## 4LEX (Aug 14, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Hmmmm. There have been some shockers at United, too. £52m for Fred is a particular lowlight. I keep hoping that someone will remind him he’s Brazilian.
		
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Fred was never worth £50m but he's at least a decent player who was wanted by Pep at City too. Pepe was a nomark in France and chased by no one, yet Arsenal still managed to overpay for him. Lazy, arrogant, can't cross, can't finish and will be impossible to sell due to high wages. All he's got is a step over and the odd curler. I said last season he'll be on loan at West Ham soon but I actually think West Ham are above his level


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## Billysboots (Aug 14, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Fred was never worth £50m but he's at least a decent player who was wanted by Pep at City too. Pepe was a nomark in France and chased by no one, yet Arsenal still managed to overpay for him. Lazy, arrogant, can't cross, can't finish and will be impossible to sell due to high wages. All he's got is a step over and the odd curler. I said last season he'll be on loan at West Ham soon but I actually think West Ham are above his level 

Click to expand...

I agree regarding Pepe, but Fred a decent player? 

He had a run of about half a dozen reasonable games in the middle of last season when I thought he had found his feet, but then reverted to type. He is an absolute catastrophe at this level, his passing, in particular, being amongst the worst I have ever seen.

United will never return to the pinnacle of English football with players like Fred playing anything more than a fringe role. He is beyond awful.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2021)

seems were still bottom of the league and it wasnt a nightmare 😪😪😪


----------



## ger147 (Aug 14, 2021)

Just in case anyone from Brentford is passing by...


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2021)

ger147 said:



			Just in case anyone from Brentford is passing by...

View attachment 38025

Click to expand...

That’s Champions League form .


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## larmen (Aug 14, 2021)

ger147 said:



			Just in case anyone from Brentford is passing by...

View attachment 38025

Click to expand...

I used to live in Brentford for over 10 years. The 1st 5 or so I didn't even realise 'we' had a football team. Only wenn Roessler took over. Now my new local team (Hampton and Richmond) are even worse than Brentford used to be.
Anyway they should print it on tshirts.


In other news, Real Madrid wants to join the Premier League. I  guess they have to queue behind the both Glasgow  clubs,  right?


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2021)

Three great penalties from Bruno today.


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## Billysboots (Aug 14, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Three great penalties from Bruno today.
		
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You beat me to it 😎


----------



## Billysboots (Aug 14, 2021)

I was enjoying United’s start to this season. Full of verve and vigour. And now I know it’s all been a dream.

Because even Fred has scored.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2021)

Just the four assists for Pogba so far. Show pony.


----------



## Billysboots (Aug 14, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Just the four assists for Pogba so far. Show pony. 

Click to expand...

When he’s in the mood there are few better. He just needs to be in the mood more often.

His ball for Greenwood’s goal was inch perfect.


----------



## IanM (Aug 14, 2021)

I've no dog in this fight, but am being very entertained by Man U / Leeds


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-58162403
Even the Rwandan President is having a go at Arsenal 😂


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			seems were still bottom of the league and it wasnt a nightmare 😪😪😪
		
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woohooo were off the bottom lol


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2021)

I’m so glad I live in Leeds right now. Work should be fun on Monday.


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## Slime (Aug 14, 2021)

Oooh, that'll do ...................... but anyone giving Bruno the Man of the Match today must not be a Francophile.
Pogba was outstanding, totally unplayable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			Oooh, that'll do ...................... but anyone giving Bruno the Man of the Match today must be a *Francophile.*
Pogba was outstanding, totally unplayable.
		
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😂😂 for some reason that made me giggle 😂😂😂


----------



## Slime (Aug 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂 for some reason that made me giggle 😂😂😂
		
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Just been edited ............................. to stop me looking foolish!


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2021)

That Bruno’s not a bad player 😗


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2021)

I've been playing golf today so only caught snippets of the football part through and after. I'm guessing Benitez was out and then back in again at Goodison 😆. Nice solid 3 points with a goal each for the front men 👍


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## Slime (Aug 14, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			That Bruno’s not a bad player 😗
		
Click to expand...

He can't be, all the top teams ignored him when we stole him.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've been playing golf today so only caught snippets of the football part through and after. I'm guessing Benitez was out and then back in again at Goodison 😆. Nice solid 3 points with a goal each for the front men 👍
		
Click to expand...

Boo’d off at half time apparently.
If the fans give him a chance I reckon he’ll do a good job there.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			He can't be, all the top teams ignored him when we stole him. 

Click to expand...

I can’t understand it 🤷‍♂️😂😂
This could be a very competitive season,Chelsea also very good today.


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## Billysboots (Aug 14, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			I can’t understand it 🤷‍♂️😂😂
This could be a very competitive season,Chelsea also very good today.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst I would obviously love to see United win the league, I would like to see two or three clubs take it right down to the wire. Nothing worse than seeing a title wrapped up by early April.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Whilst I would obviously love to see United win the league, I would like to see two or three clubs take it right down to the wire. Nothing worse than seeing a title wrapped up by early April.
		
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City will be tough to beat,upto the others to keep up pace.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Boo’d off at half time apparently.
If the fans give him a chance I reckon he’ll do a good job there.
		
Click to expand...

If he wins games all will be forgiven. Fans are fickle, easily turned. 

He might need to do a Phil Neville and kick someone in a key match mind to really seal it 😳. It's asking too much to take out Jurgen but maybe put the boot into Ole 🤔😆


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If he wins games all will be forgiven. Fans are fickle, easily turned.

He might need to do a Phil Neville and kick someone in a key match mind to really seal it 😳. It's asking too much to take out Jurgen but maybe put the boot into Ole 🤔😆
		
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If he takes out the German cheer leader he’s golden 😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			If he takes out the German cheer leader he’s golden 😂😂
		
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We can only hope but I fear it's asking too much 🤣. He could unleash Dunc and then pat him on the back. It would be enough for Blue's fans.


----------



## SaintHacker (Aug 14, 2021)

Saints off to their usual fast start  🙄 Oh well, at least we don't have to play at goodison again this season...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2021)

Well that’s 3 of the big 4 with comfortable wins and all still have some players to come - could this be the season where it’s more than just a 1 maybe 2 horse race ? The season could be a cracker.

Good to see the one season wonder score on the opening game of the season for the 5th season in a row 

This was a good watch


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that’s 3 of the big 4 with comfortable wins and all still have some players to come - could this be the season where it’s more than just a 1 maybe 2 horse race ? The season could be a cracker.

Good to see the one season wonder score on the opening game of the season for the 5th season in a row

This was a good watch







Click to expand...

And how good is it to see fans back?
Bet you can’t wait to get back to Anfield 😊


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## Piece (Aug 14, 2021)

Great atmosphere today at the Vic to watch us stuff the Villa 3-2! Just 37 more points to go. 😂


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## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2021)

Piece said:



			Great atmosphere today at the Vic to watch us stuff the Villa 3-2! Just 37 more points to go. 😂
		
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Joking aside, obviously we all support different teams and have different expectations. For me qualification for the champs league would do. Anything above is a bonus. Wonder what other fans expectations are.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 14, 2021)

I've no idea how we haven't got anything at Leicester, much improved performance second half. 
Get a cb and cm in and we could have a decent season.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 14, 2021)

Just seen the Cantwell challenge on Jota. It's another of those challenges that I wish would become a straight red card. No intention to play the ball and just took out the player to stop the attack.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just seen the Cantwell challenge on Jota. It's another of those challenges that I wish would become a straight red card. No intention to play the ball and just took out the player to stop the attack.
		
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Sorry but that’s never going to be a red.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 15, 2021)

Pep getting his "we never bought the league" defense in early this season.

Love the primark jumper for added effect.


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## Kellfire (Aug 15, 2021)

Everton included a picture of Anne Frank in a tribute to fans who died of Covid. 🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If he wins games all will be forgiven. Fans are fickle, easily turned.

He might need to do a Phil Neville and kick someone in a key match mind to really seal it 😳. It's asking too much to take out Jurgen but maybe put the boot into Ole 🤔😆
		
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You will need to replace Keane he’s woeful.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just seen the Cantwell challenge on Jota. It's another of those challenges that I wish would become a straight red card. No intention to play the ball and just took out the player to stop the attack.
		
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Yes me to.
You can go for the ball but get it wrong ( excessive force???) and get a red.
Yet you can hack somebody down from behind no intention of getting the ball and it’s yellow.
These challenges could end somebody’s career red all day for me.


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## Rlburnside (Aug 15, 2021)

Read this morning Levy is going to tell City today he’s not going to sell Kane. 

We shall see, interesting to see if he plays today. 

Grandsons just come in with the new away strip on 👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You will need to replace Keane he’s woeful.
		
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He had a very good season last year, very dependable. The other centre halves changed but he was pretty much ever present. One dodgy game doesn't make him a bad player.


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## Backache (Aug 15, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			One match and Arsenal dropped 19 places! 😁
		
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Mind you without playing they have just jumped three places.They just need to stop playing and they will be top again by October.


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2021)

Backache said:



			Mind you without playing they have just jumped three places.They just need to stop playing and they will be top again by October.
		
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definitely a better plan than Edu, Arteta and co have


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 15, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Pep getting his "we never bought the league" defense in early this season.

Love the primark jumper for added effect.

Click to expand...

Is this you getting your “they bought the league” in early this season? 🤣


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 15, 2021)

No Harry Kane 😱


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2021)

Good to see VAR still a waste of space - how on earth did they not overrule that penalty - he got the ball


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## IanM (Aug 15, 2021)

Booking for the jump too!


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## pokerjoke (Aug 15, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			No Harry Kane 😱
		
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Couldn’t be going to City could he


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2021)

Looks like football fans are back -fighting , homophobic chants , chants about disasters , disrespectful flags


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like football fans are back -fighting , homophobic chants , chants about disasters , disrespectful flags
		
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But on the positive side I’ve seen lots of good scenes with fans enjoying themselves.
The scenes after the Brentford match was brilliant 😊


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			But on the positive side I’ve seen lots of good scenes with fans enjoying themselves.
The scenes after the Brentford match was brilliant 😊
		
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not in my house they werent


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## Kellfire (Aug 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like football fans are back -fighting , homophobic chants , chants about disasters , disrespectful flags
		
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I assume you’re including the Liverpool fans yesterday?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			not in my house they werent 

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😂 oh I can imagine.
Could be a long season 😬


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good to see VAR still a waste of space - how on earth did they not overrule that penalty - he got the ball
		
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Yes very poor.
There was a tackle about 30 secs before the pen by the left back missed completely got Bowen in the groin.

I was impressed by West Ham though.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He had a very good season last year, very dependable. The other centre halves changed but he was pretty much ever present. One dodgy game doesn't make him a bad player.
		
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Must just be my choice of games.
Don’t watch Everton much
But when I have he’s been awful.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I assume you’re including the Liverpool fans yesterday?
		
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No clubs were mentioned for a reason 🙄


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			😂 oh I can imagine.
Could be a long season 😬
		
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more like a long 5 years with the current plan lol, the biggest positive is we have little hope so expectations are at ground level


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## Kellfire (Aug 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No clubs were mentioned for a reason 🙄
		
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Why? United and Leeds fans scrapping, Liverpool and Derby fans singing some unsavoury stuff. It’s all in the public domain.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Why? United and Leeds fans scrapping, Liverpool and Derby fans singing some unsavoury stuff. It’s all in the public domain.
		
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If it’s already in the public domain then there was no need to highlight any specific clubs to ensure it didn’t turn into tit for tat etc


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## pauljames87 (Aug 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes very poor.
There was a tackle about 30 secs before the pen by the left back missed completely got Bowen in the groin.

I was impressed by West Ham though.
		
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Missed the game, been catching up, impressed to come back twice and win


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Missed the game, been catching up, impressed to come back twice and win
		
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Newcastle are no great shakes.
Very dodgy penalty in fact shocking lad clearly got the ball.
But WH better team by a mile for me.
Thought Rice was MOM but Antonio was good apart from the pen.


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## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			No Harry Kane 😱
		
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They literally said he wouldn't be playing about two weeks ago.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 15, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I assume you’re including the Liverpool fans yesterday?
		
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He literally said "homophobic chants". Unless I'm mistaken the only issue with fans singing homophobic chants yesterday was those in the Carrow Road away end. 

Totally unnecessary. The chant, and your wind up.


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## Kellfire (Aug 15, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			He literally said "homophobic chants". Unless I'm mistaken the only issue with fans singing homophobic chants yesterday was those in the Carrow Road away end.

Totally unnecessary. The chant, and your wind up.
		
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My wind up? LP has a long record of sugar coating things that don’t fit his narrative so I was just making sure he wasn’t doing that again. Thanks for your concern though.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 15, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			He literally said "homophobic chants". Unless I'm mistaken the only issue with fans singing homophobic chants yesterday was those in the Carrow Road away end.

Totally unnecessary. The chant, and your wind up.
		
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He was pointing out fans misbehaving,not just homophobic chants 👍🏻


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## hairball_89 (Aug 15, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			My wind up? LP has a long record of sugar coating things that don’t fit his narrative so I was just making sure he wasn’t doing that again. Thanks for your concern though.
		
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It was blatantly obvious what he was talking about. Idiots at football matches being idiots, which sadly there is too much of. You brought one team into it. The only team (so far this season) who's club have come out and told their own supporters to stop doing what they were doing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			My wind up? LP has a long record of sugar coating things that don’t fit his narrative so I was just making sure he wasn’t doing that again. Thanks for your concern though.
		
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Can you not just go one day without some sort of crusade on here 🤷‍♂️

I made a general post about fan behaviour without pointing fingers at any club in specific to try and ensure that it didnt get dragged down.


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## Kellfire (Aug 15, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			It was blatantly obvious what he was talking about. Idiots at football matches being idiots, which sadly there is too much of. You brought one team into it. The only team (so far this season) who's club have come out and told their own supporters to stop doing what they were doing.
		
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You’ll have to point me to the bit where I criticised or even mentioned Liverpool’s response to the incidents.


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## Slime (Aug 15, 2021)

Anyone but Son.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2021)

What was Dias doing there and why did Ederson not even dive for that 🤷‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			They literally said he wouldn't be playing about two weeks ago.
		
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Surely though, you would at least expect him to be watching somewhere in the ground. He's meant to be the senior player at the club, club legend etc

He has let himself down massively this last week or two.


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## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Surely though, you would at least expect him to be watching somewhere in the ground. He's meant to be the senior player at the club, club legend etc

He has let himself down massively this last week or two.
		
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I honestly don't care anymore. Been so much media claptrap that I don't know what's real. I'm just waiting til deadline day and we'll see if he's still here or not. If he is, great, if he isn't, oh well.



Liverpoolphil said:



			What was Dias doing there and why did Ederson not even dive for that 🤷‍♂️
		
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Yeah, I've never thought he was a top goalie in terms of actual keeping. You have to dive there I'd have thought.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 15, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			He literally said "homophobic chants". Unless I'm mistaken the only issue with fans singing homophobic chants yesterday was those in the Carrow Road away end.

Totally unnecessary. The chant, and your wind up.
		
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No.

Derby County fans also reported to have been making both homophobic and racist chants during their game at Peterborough yesterday.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2021)

Well that’s an excellent battle by Spurs - deserved that

Grealish was awful - spent most of the game throwing himself to the ground , shouting in players faces and standing on Sterlings feet all game

Not sure where he is going to play him but it still seems a signing that was done because they could get him as opposed to actually needing him - City need a striker , no one up there today


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## davemc1 (Aug 15, 2021)

Throughly enjoyed that. Especially as your allowed to have a bit of aggression in a tackle. Long may it continue 👍🏻


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## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2021)

Tanganga is a such a talent. Imagine marking Sterling AND Grealish out of the game. I like him a lot. Great pace and aggression, I hope he keeps making appearances now.


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## IanM (Aug 15, 2021)

Poor old City, how are they supposed to compete on that woeful budget?


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What was Dias doing there and why did Ederson not even dive for that 🤷‍♂️
		
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Yes I think it’s the trying to keep your arms behind you .
It just upsets your balance.
But the keeper has to follow the path of the ball.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2021)

How ironic Grealish accusing someone of diving to get a free kick.


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## Kellfire (Aug 15, 2021)

Playing Grealish there was so stupid. Drop Sterling and play Grealish further up and he’s a world beater.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2021)

City had a better team on the bench.
I know players are tired but leaving KDB on the bench for that long is just mad.
Good management or not.


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			City had a better team on the bench.
I know players are tired but leaving KDB on the bench for that long is just mad.
Good management or not.
		
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hes been injured as well as tired


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			City had a better team on the bench.
I know players are tired but leaving KDB on the bench for that long is just mad.
Good management or not.
		
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KDB needs a good rest - he has been flogged for nearly 24 months non stop , still suffering from injury - but they need him badly, if he doesn’t play then City May struggle but if they don’t rest him then he could break down and be out for a while


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## 4LEX (Aug 15, 2021)

Grealish is like Utd signing Berbatov years ago. Quality player but doesn't fit the style of the manager. Although I thouyt Grealish was one of the better City players today the rest were so bad, especially Ake and Mendy. The difference in class when KDB came on was huge, without him they're half the side.

No Kane and City won't win the title, the competition has got so much stronger. That said they'll sign him and win it by 15 points again


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## arnieboy (Aug 15, 2021)

Over the moon with the Spurs result, we have been waiting so long for a performance like that.
COYS.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Newcastle are no great shakes.
Very dodgy penalty in fact shocking lad clearly got the ball.
But WH better team by a mile for me.
Thought Rice was MOM but Antonio was good apart from the pen.
		
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Honestly didn't see the pen (winning) but saw the pen itself which thought was pathetic 

Heard rice got turned inside out for first goal? God I'd like to sign Saint maxiam .. but clearly grew into the game 

Our best 11 right now..  said beneramha (can never spell his name) looks class


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2021)

He d


pauljames87 said:



			Honestly didn't see the pen (winning) but saw the pen itself which thought was pathetic

Heard rice got turned inside out for first goal? God I'd like to sign Saint maxiam .. but clearly grew into the game

Our best 11 right now..  said beneramha (can never spell his name) looks class
		
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He did but he’s not the first or last to be beaten by St M.


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## GG26 (Aug 15, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			I've no idea how we haven't got anything at Leicester, much improved performance second half.
Get a cb and cm in and we could have a decent season.
		
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Was an odd match.  All the action was at my end, Leicester dominating the first half and Wolves the second.  You were unlucky not to get anything from the game.  The difference was Vardy’s finishing compared to Traore’s.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 15, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He d

He did but he’s not the first or last to be beaten by St M.
		
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Newcastle have a habit of having fast tricky players 
Hatem Ben Arfa
Lauren Robert 
Kieran dyer 

Wilson scoring was as obvious as anything .. we must be his most scored against team 

Now Lukaku is back that's another 3 goals let in a season


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## Bazzatron (Aug 15, 2021)

GG26 said:



			Was an odd match.  All the action was at my end, Leicester dominating the first half and Wolves the second.  You were unlucky not to get anything from the game.  The difference was Vardy’s finishing compared to Traore’s.
		
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I was quite enthused by Traore's performance, made a boatload of chances the finish will come. 
Having said that, if he finished every single one he makes he wouldn't be playing for us.


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## Slime (Aug 15, 2021)

What a great opening weekend of football, some great goals too.
I think the Spurs win was the only real surprise of the weekend.

I know, I know, I just don't think the Brentford result was a huge surprise.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 16, 2021)

Slime said:



			What a great opening weekend of football, some great goals too.
I think the Spurs win was the only real surprise of the weekend.

I know, I know, I just don't think the Brentford result was a huge surprise.
		
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I know what you mean..I was playing golf with a bunch of spurs fans yest (watched the game in club house afters with must of been 40 of them) everyone wrote them off. Kane looks off. New manager. Not many new players their just annoyed 

Where as arsenal we all know Mikel is taking them backwards


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## harpo_72 (Aug 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I know what you mean..I was playing golf with a bunch of spurs fans yest (watched the game in club house afters with must of been 40 of them) everyone wrote them off. Kane looks off. New manager. Not many new players their just annoyed

Where as arsenal we all know Mikel is taking them backwards
		
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But is Mikel taking them backwards? Or are they just not buying in the right players ? 
Getting beat by Brentford is a shock but let’s see Brentford’s next 5 games to give it context.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 16, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			But is Mikel taking them backwards? Or are they just not buying in the right players ?
Getting beat by Brentford is a shock but let’s see Brentford’s next 5 games to give it context.
		
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He guided them to no European football full stop 

Playing one best strikers in league on the wing

Old Lego head was a bad appointment. His only real management experience is peps understudy , hardly deserved his position


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 16, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			But is Mikel taking them backwards? Or are they just not buying in the right players ?
Getting beat by Brentford is a shock but let’s see Brentford’s next 5 games to give it context.
		
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Arteta looks like he is playing the style he wants, not necessarily the style that suits the players he has. He can keep stubbornly sticking to his guns but that rarely ends well.


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## harpo_72 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Arteta looks like he is playing the style he wants, not necessarily the style that suits the players he has. He can keep stubbornly sticking to his guns but that rarely ends well.
		
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That’s the thing, if the board are behind him and want that football then they need to get the players in and offload.. there is always a period of change over where a team is neither one thing or another.
But having said that, the players are professionals and they need to give 100% of what they have to the manager not strop about like a bunch of petulant 3 yr olds … or is that too controversial an opinion to have about artistic/creative  people??


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2021)

Arteta is useless, I can't believe they've shown him this much patience. He seems to have consistently taken them backwards since his appointment. Any other club would have sacked him by now.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 16, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Grealish is like Utd signing Berbatov years ago. Quality player but doesn't fit the style of the manager. Although I thouyt Grealish was one of the better City players today the rest were so bad, especially Ake and Mendy. The difference in class when KDB came on was huge, without him they're half the side.

No Kane and City won't win the title, the competition has got so much stronger. That said they'll sign him and win it by 15 points again 

Click to expand...

I don’t think Ake had a bad game at all, he spent 95 mins covering for the car crash that is Mendy. He is and has been hopeless since his knee injury. When Son scored what was Mendy actually doing. Souness pointed out that Cancelo should of followed the ball but why did Mendy not cover for Ake. Mendy has had a full preseason of training and still looks shocking.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 16, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Grealish is like Utd signing Berbatov years ago. Quality player but doesn't fit the style of the manager. Although I thouyt Grealish was one of the better City players today the rest were so bad, especially Ake and Mendy. The difference in class when KDB came on was huge, without him they're half the side.

No Kane and City won't win the title, the competition has got so much stronger. That said they'll sign him and win it by 15 points again 

Click to expand...

I Know yesterday was only the first game, but I thought City were shocking. If City sign Kane and give him the same service as Torres got yesterday they will be 15 points behind the winners.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 16, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			That’s the thing, if the board are behind him and want that football then they need to get the players in and offload.. there is always a period of change over where a team is neither one thing or another.
But having said that, the players are professionals and they need to give 100% of what they have to the manager not strop about like a bunch of petulant 3 yr olds … or is that too controversial an opinion to have about artistic/creative  people??
		
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I agree but you have to work with what you have. If Arteta thinks those players can play Barcelona football then he is deluding himself. You have to play the football the players are capable of until you get in the right players for the style you want. If Arsenal can't afford or attract those players then it is a pipe dream.


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## fundy (Aug 16, 2021)

Sacking Arteta wont change anything, he isnt the solution, but he also isnt the main problem, the main issue is and has always been the owners, board and the so called director of football, they way they have destroyed asset values and handled contract negotiations pretty much since David Dein left. They are saddled with a lot of unwanted played, on ridiculous contracts that no one else is close to wanting, Ozil just the tip of the iceberg.

For eg on friday there was no Lacazette, Aubameyang, William, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Cedric, Torreira. None are part of Artetas plan, they cant get a penny for any of them or even anyone to take them off their hands, and they take home over £1m a week in wages between them! Instead we are selling/loaning the young prospects that have their routes to the 1st team blocked by them


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## DanFST (Aug 16, 2021)

I thought it was Wengers fault!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 16, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I thought it was Wengers fault!
		
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They are still using his blueprint


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## fundy (Aug 16, 2021)

oh ffs, i thought friday night was bad, then on monday morning we give xhaka a new contract

whos running the asylum 😥😥😥😥😥😥


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes me to.
You can go for the ball but get it wrong ( excessive force???) and get a red.
Yet you can hack somebody down from behind no intention of getting the ball and it’s yellow.
These challenges could end somebody’s career red all day for me.
		
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That's a huge exaggeration. There was nothing dangerous about the tackle, it was a simple trip and a bog standard yellow card. If it were dangerous of course its red. 

Actually, the teams at the top of the league are the ones that are the best at cynical midfield fouls to stop the opposition getting forward / break momentum. Milner was guilty of an equally cynical foul in the first half and duly collected his well earned yellow card.


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			That's a huge exaggeration. There was nothing dangerous about the tackle, it was a simple trip and a bog standard yellow card. If it were dangerous of course its red.

Actually, the teams at the top of the league are the ones that are the best at cynical midfield fouls to stop the opposition getting forward / break momentum. Milner was guilty of an equally cynical foul in the first half and duly collected his well earned yellow card.
		
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In a world where those are reds, every game finishes 8 a side.


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## harpo_72 (Aug 16, 2021)

Rumour is arteta is out and Conte could be his replacement.. but who wants the job in reality?? 
Side lining players is a poor strategy you need to put them in the shop window and flog them …


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			That's a huge exaggeration. There was nothing dangerous about the tackle, it was a simple trip and a bog standard yellow card. If it were dangerous of course its red.

Actually, the teams at the top of the league are the ones that are the best at cynical midfield fouls to stop the opposition getting forward / break momentum. Milner was guilty of an equally cynical foul in the first half and duly collected his well earned yellow card.
		
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Well I tottaly disagree.
One of them ended my football career.
Ask Gomez of Everton if he thinks Sons tackle was a simple trip.
Never saw the Liverpool game but if it was the same then he should get red.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			In a world where those are reds, every game finishes 8 a side. 

Click to expand...

If they got a red they would stop doing it!


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If they got a red they would stop doing it!
		
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They wouldn't though. Sometimes it's an instinct thing when you're beaten that you just flick a toe out and trip them. You can't be sending people off for it.


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well I tottaly disagree.
One of them ended my football career.
Ask Gomez of Everton if he thinks Sons tackle was a simple trip.
Never saw the Liverpool game but if it was the same then he should get red.
		
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How can you disagree without having seen the incident?!

The Son tackle wasn't really a trip, there was more force applied, but it was still incredibly unlucky to have the consequences that it did. Really, what he did was a yellow card offence (hence why the red was over turned). In any case, Cantwell trips Jota, he doesn't hack him down, it just wasn't dangerous. Cynical? Absolutely, but that's a big part of the modern game and Klopp and Guardiola's sides are the best at it.

I don't like that part of the game, but i don't see how it's possible to introduce tougher punishments.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			They wouldn't though. Sometimes it's an instinct thing when you're beaten that you just flick a toe out and trip them. You can't be sending people off for it. 

Click to expand...

When flying elbows started getting red cards there were queues of retired strikers lining up to tell us how it ws impossible to jump without swinging your arms. A few red cards later and players adapated. The odd one slips through now and again and they get a straight red with no moans. Players learn or get left behind. It would be the same with this.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			How can you disagree without having seen the incident?!

The Son tackle wasn't really a trip, there was more force applied, but it was still incredibly unlucky to have the consequences that it did. Really, what he did was a yellow card offence (hence why the red was over turned). In any case, Cantwell trips Jota, he doesn't hack him down, it just wasn't dangerous. Cynical? Absolutely, but that's a big part of the modern game and Klopp and Guardiola's sides are the best at it.

I don't like that part of the game, but i don't see how it's possible to introduce tougher punishments.
		
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I said “IF” it was the same?
Seen the highlights only they never showed the Milner one.

Sorry but I disagree.
It’s easy to change the rules for what Cantwell did that’s just not a trip.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			oh ffs, i thought friday night was bad, then on monday morning we give xhaka a new contract

whos running the asylum 😥😥😥😥😥😥
		
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Only plausible theory is that Granit and Stan showed up at the same dogging party and they didn't take Xhaka's phone off him...


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			They wouldn't though. Sometimes it's an instinct thing when you're beaten that you just flick a toe out and trip them. You can't be sending people off for it. 

Click to expand...

Cantwell chased him for 20yds that’s not just flicking a toe out.
He hacked him down from behind that’s dangerous imo.


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Cantwell chased him for 20yds that’s not just flicking a toe out.
He hacked him down from behind that’s dangerous imo.
		
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It's dangerous if he went through his ankle. If he just trips him, not anymore dangerous than a slide tackle where you win the ball and subsequently trip the player. It's a contact sport. Players can expect to hit the deck every now and then.


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's dangerous if he went through his ankle. If he just trips him, not anymore dangerous than a slide tackle where you win the ball and subsequently trip the player. It's a contact sport. Players can expect to hit the deck every now and then.
		
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Correct. He slides along the floor and then taps Jota's ankle to trip him up, there's no danger at all, other than the danger that simply exists from playing a contact sport and cannot be eliminated.



clubchamp98 said:



			Cantwell chased him for 20yds that’s not just flicking a toe out.
He hacked him down from behind that’s dangerous imo.
		
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I can't find it in the highlights, please could you share the link? What you're describing (other than him chasing) isn't what I recall.


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## harpo_72 (Aug 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well I tottaly disagree.
One of them ended my football career.
Ask Gomez of Everton if he thinks Sons tackle was a simple trip.
Never saw the Liverpool game but if it was the same then he should get red.
		
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Similar happened to me I packed in football shortly after I was chopped down. Ankle was damaged and has been niggly ever since, so took up hockey instead. However the chopper was let off by the ref but school playground saw the fella being kicked, elbowed and my particular favourites are the full blast volleys at head and jewels … all within the rules but ungentlemanly but neither is chopping someone down. 
After the Saka foul , we were too polite.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's dangerous if he went through his ankle. If he just trips him, not anymore dangerous than a slide tackle where you win the ball and subsequently trip the player. It's a contact sport. Players can expect to hit the deck every now and then.
		
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The difference for me is most tackles including sliding tackles are from opponents that you can see as you are running at them.
Ones like Cantwell and Son is a tackle from behind that your not really expecting ,that catches you by surprise .
They are dangerous and imo should be red.
Other opinions are avaliable that’s fair enough.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Correct. He slides along the floor and then taps Jota's ankle to trip him up, there's no danger at all, other than the danger that simply exists from playing a contact sport and cannot be eliminated.



I can't find it in the highlights, please could you share the link? What you're describing (other than him chasing) isn't what I recall.
		
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It was on Mach of the day!
Jota went past him he chased him and hacked him down from behind absolutely no attempt for the ball.
Imo that’s red ,you don’t agree that’s fine.


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was on Mach of the day!
Jota went past him he chased him and hacked him down from behind absolutely no attempt for the ball.
Imo that’s red ,you don’t agree that’s fine.
		
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I haven't seen it either, it's not on Twitter and I can't be bothered to flick through an hour of match of the day to find it - so I can't argue too vociferously anyway. What you've just said is a red if the recipient was through on goal (professional foul). Otherwise, there is a certain about of contact and rough and tumble expected. 

Think about it another way, the officials would have to somehow rule on the player's intent. There would be a lot of grey areas where you don't know if he _deliberately_ tripped him or was just very late with the tackle.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I haven't seen it either, it's not on Twitter and I can't be bothered to flick through an hour of match of the day to find it - so I can't argue too vociferously anyway. What you've just said is a red if the recipient was through on goal (professional foul). Otherwise, there is a certain about of contact and rough and tumble expected.

Think about it another way, the officials would have to somehow rule on the player's intent. There would be a lot of grey areas where you don't know if he _deliberately_ tripped him or was just very late with the tackle.
		
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I think there is no dought he tripped him.
There were covering defenders. So absolutely not necessary either.
Jota went past Cantwell he chased him and brought him down from behind , absolutely no attempt for the ball.
I hate these kind of tackles , just brushed off by some as part of the game it’s reckless and is going to hurt someone and end their career .
Let’s not forget if you score a goal and remove your shirt it’s yellow.
But chop someone down from behind no attempt for the ball and it’s the same punishment.


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I haven't seen it either, it's not on Twitter and I can't be bothered to flick through an hour of match of the day to find it - so I can't argue too vociferously anyway. What you've just said is a red if the recipient was through on goal (professional foul). Otherwise, there is a certain about of contact and rough and tumble expected.

Think about it another way, the officials would have to somehow rule on the player's intent. There would be a lot of grey areas where you don't know if he _deliberately_ tripped him or was just very late with the tackle.
		
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It's at 30:15 https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000ywfh/match-of-the-day-202122-14082021

He slides in and trips him. There's no excessive force or endangering of Jota, it's a clear foul of course, but under the rules as they stand I can't see how it's anything other than a bog standard yellow.



clubchamp98 said:



			It was on Mach of the day!
Jota went past him he chased him and hacked him down from behind absolutely no attempt for the ball.
Imo that’s red ,you don’t agree that’s fine.
		
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The laws of football are very clear that it's not a red card unless it involves excessive force or endangers an opponent, are you suggesting it falls in that category? Or that there should be a change in the rules such that there is a new red card offence?



clubchamp98 said:



			The difference for me is most tackles including sliding tackles are from opponents that you can see as you are running at them.
Ones like Cantwell and Son is a tackle from behind that your not really expecting ,that catches you by surprise .
They are dangerous and imo should be red.
Other opinions are avaliable that’s fair enough.
		
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I think either the rule has to be if there's no attempt to play the ball it's a red, or it's left as it is. Otherwise shirt pulling, which is every bit as cynical, and other minor trips where there is no attempt to play the ball, which are the same offence, would not be punished in the same way. I'm all in favour of removing cynical fouls from the game, but I don't really see how it's possible.


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think there is no dought he tripped him.
There were covering defenders. So absolutely not necessary either.
Jota went past Cantwell he chased him and brought him down from behind , absolutely no attempt for the ball.
I hate these kind of tackles , just brushed off by some as part of the game it’s reckless and is going to hurt someone and end their career .
Let’s not forget if you score a goal and remove your shirt it’s yellow.
But chop someone down from behind no attempt for the ball and it’s the same punishment.
		
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If you class tripping as dangerous though, then there are literally countless other aspects that you could call dangerous as well. As Canary Yellow says, a shirt pull could be dangerous if it causes whiplash, and that's deliberate. You are just as likely to get injured from a fair tackle as you are from a trip, it's just unfortunate if you are.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			It's at 30:15 https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000ywfh/match-of-the-day-202122-14082021

He slides in and trips him. There's no excessive force or endangering of Jota, it's a clear foul of course, but under the rules as they stand I can't see how it's anything other than a bog standard yellow.



The laws of football are very clear that it's not a red card unless it involves excessive force or endangers an opponent, are you suggesting it falls in that category? Or that there should be a change in the rules such that there is a new red card offence?



I think either the rule has to be if there's no attempt to play the ball it's a red, or it's left as it is. Otherwise shirt pulling, which is every bit as cynical, and other minor trips where there is no attempt to play the ball, which are the same offence, would not be punished in the same way. I'm all in favour of removing cynical fouls from the game, but I don't really see how it's possible.
		
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I have had this discussion before and I know what the rules say.
Yes I do think it should be changed for tackles like Cantwells .
To compare that to a shirt pull or a minor trip .
It’s a deliberate act and not just a reaction to your opponent which most of the time is 50/50 fighting for the ball.

It was post #14253 that I answered and agreed with .
That makes it clear that this sort of challenge should be treated differently and outlawed from the game.


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## Piece (Aug 16, 2021)

Football eh? One game in and according the gist on this thread...

1. Arsenal will be relegated
2. City won't win the title
3. Utd are title favourites
4. Spurs don't need Kane
5. Grealish is an awful signing and doesn't suit City
6. etc.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Piece said:



			Football eh? One game in and according the gist on this thread...

1. Arsenal will be relegated
2. City won't win the title
3. Utd are title favourites
4. Spurs don't need Kane
5. Grealish is an awful signing and doesn't suit City
6. etc.



Click to expand...

Yes but what do we know.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 16, 2021)

Didn't take too long for this to turn in to the "what happened in the Liverpool game" thread 😂.

Its almost like week on week there's a Liverpool game and then loads of little side show games going on.


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## Kellfire (Aug 16, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Didn't take too long for this to turn in to the "what happened in the Liverpool game" thread 😂.

Its almost like week on week there's a Liverpool game and then loads of little side show games going on.
		
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Liverpool would’ve won the league if it wasn’t for that foul on Jota. Just wait.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Didn't take too long for this to turn in to the "what happened in the Liverpool game" thread 😂.

Its almost like week on week there's a Liverpool game and then loads of little side show games going on.
		
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I think the discussion is more about the foul as opposed to the team involved - and in fairness to the poster he made the same point when it happened to Sterling in the Euros and also when Gomez was badly injured because of it 


Kellfire said:



			Liverpool would’ve won the league if it wasn’t for that foul on Jota. Just wait.
		
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surely you must need a day off at some point soon


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## Kellfire (Aug 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think the discussion is more about the foul as opposed to the team involved - and in fairness to the poster he made the same point when it happened to Sterling in the Euros and also when Gomez was badly injured because of it


surely you must need a day off at some point soon
		
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You’re about as much fun as herpes on a first date, Phil.

Meanwhile…


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You’re about as much fun as herpes on a first date, Phil.

Meanwhile…
	View attachment 38046

Click to expand...

🤷‍♂️ 

Nice headline 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426610814421803008
Not much “pleading” - but then it is the “express”


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️

Nice headline


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426610814421803008
Not much “pleading” - but then it is the “express”
		
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I’d give him a piggy back up there


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I’d give him a piggy back up there
		
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No idea what he is like now  - seemed pretty decent when last in the Prem and was touted as the next Maddison. As for the tackle - it was a foul , yellow card and move on


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## Kellfire (Aug 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️

Nice headline


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426610814421803008
Not much “pleading” - but then it is the “express”
		
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How can anyone take everything as seriously as you do? Relax lad, it came up on my Facebook feed and it seemed somewhat ironic given the things said on here. Honestly, have yourself a shandy and watch some Father Ted.


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No idea what he is like now  - seemed pretty decent when last in the Prem and was touted as the next Maddison. As for the tackle - it was a foul , yellow card and move on
		
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correct

He’s a good player, but not really the type of good player we need in my opinion. We’d be better with more pace and power and being able to hurt teams on the break/ transition.

He’s also not creative enough, his stats aren’t strong enough - not enough assists, although he’s done alright on the goals front last couple of seasons. Comparing him with buendia, for me there is no contest as to who is the star.

He’d probably suit a better side more than he does us - a prem team that pins teams in like we did to sides in the championship.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			correct

He’s a good player, but not really the type of good player we need in my opinion. We’d be better with more pace and power and being able to hurt teams on the break/ transition.

He’s also not creative enough, his stats aren’t strong enough - not enough assists, although he’s done alright on the goals front last couple of seasons. Comparing him with buendia, for me there is no contest as to who is the star.

He’d probably suit a better side more than he does us - a prem team that pins teams in like we did to sides in the championship.
		
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I don’t think he is the type of player that we will be looking at currently - more a wide player to support the front three ( if other players leave )


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You’re about as much fun as herpes on a first date, Phil.

Meanwhile…
	View attachment 38046

Click to expand...

Don’t want that dirty bar steward in our team, we would have won the league only for him fouling Jota.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I’d give him a piggy back up there
		
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I would not get in front of him after Saturday.


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## larmen (Aug 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would not get in front of him after Saturday.

Click to expand...

That's the point. Do something on match day one, the rest of the season they all have respect. Like when someone is new to prison, break a leg, or be broken ;-)
How many people where looking for an argument with Keane or Cantona?



But seriously, yellow card all day, nothing more. Tactical would like so many that are applauded as clever by the pundits.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2021)

larmen said:



			That's the point. Do something on match day one, the rest of the season they all have respect. Like when someone is new to prison, break a leg, or be broken ;-)
How many people where looking for an argument with Keane or Cantona?



But seriously, yellow card all day, nothing more. Tactical would like so many that are applauded as clever by the pundits.
		
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Not being funny .
The lads on here make more sense than pundits.

If your going to make a statement it should not be.” Left me for dead so I will bring you down from behind “
Do it looking him in the eye!


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t think he is the type of player that we will be looking at currently - more a wide player to support the front three ( if other players leave )
		
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I doubt there’s any serious interest in him at the price that we would be after. I just don’t think he’s got the stats to back up a £30m plus price tag.

If he has a good season then it all changes.


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## DanFST (Aug 16, 2021)

If your going to make a statement it should not be.” Left me for dead so I will bring you down from behind “
Do it looking him in the eye!
		
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Sadly no, the way the game is officiated now it's better to be more snide.


Also hilarious Liverpool fans don't want a "dirty" player in their team, after brown nosing Suarez.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 16, 2021)

Rumours tonight of Ronaldo going to PSG with Mbappe going to Real Madrid. No idea how Real are going to be able to afford Mbappe but PSG with a front three of Messi, Neymar and Ronaldo would certainly be interesting to watch. If I were in charge of Man Utd or Liverpool this evening I'd definitely be looking at any possible way to hijack the Mbappe signing. Especially for Man Utd, if they could get Mbappe in this transfer window and then Haaland next summer and keep Pogba they'd have an awesome looking front five with Pogba, Mbappe, Sancho, Haaland and Fernandes and that's without mentioning Rashford or Greenwood.


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## Orikoru (Aug 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Rumours tonight of Ronaldo going to PSG with Mbappe going to Real Madrid. No idea how Real are going to be able to afford Mbappe but PSG with a front three of Messi, Neymar and Ronaldo would certainly be interesting to watch. If I were in charge of Man Utd or Liverpool this evening I'd definitely be looking at any possible way to hijack the Mbappe signing. Especially for Man Utd, if they could get Mbappe in this transfer window and then Haaland next summer and keep Pogba they'd have an awesome looking front five with Pogba, Mbappe, Sancho, Haaland and Fernandes and that's *without mentioning Rashford or Greenwood*.
		
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Well Rashford would probably be on loan at West Ham or Everton if Utd had that team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Rumours tonight of Ronaldo going to PSG with Mbappe going to Real Madrid. No idea how Real are going to be able to afford Mbappe but PSG with a front three of Messi, Neymar and Ronaldo would certainly be interesting to watch. If I were in charge of Man Utd or Liverpool this evening I'd definitely be looking at any possible way to hijack the Mbappe signing. Especially for Man Utd, if they could get Mbappe in this transfer window and then Haaland next summer and keep Pogba they'd have an awesome looking front five with Pogba, Mbappe, Sancho, Haaland and Fernandes and that's without mentioning Rashford or Greenwood.
		
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I don’t see Mbappe coming to the Prem - the level of wages that Madrid can offer will dwarf anything a Prem club can offer , especially with tax rates etc. 

I have no doubt Klopp would love Mbappe and there apparently have been conversations with his family etc but we would only be able to offer a heavily incentive based contract - the same as what Salah etc are on , but you never know , PSG could possibly lose him on a free 

Haaland I think is different - think he would love to be in the Prem , next year he will available for a small fee - so he is a realistic option but even then I see him going to Bayern with Lewondonski leaving


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## pauljames87 (Aug 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well Rashford would probably be on loan at West Ham or Everton if Utd had that team. 

Click to expand...

Would 100% take him. Just keep him off the pens lol


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## hairball_89 (Aug 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Would 100% take him. Just keep him off the pens lol
		
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That’s what you’ve got Mark Noble for, right?!


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## pauljames87 (Aug 17, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			That’s what you’ve got Mark Noble for, right?!
		
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Not for much longer thank God.


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## DanFST (Aug 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Not for much longer thank God.
		
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Not very respectful.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 17, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Not very respectful.
		
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It's nice to finally have a manager who drops him 

He hasn't been at the races for a long time. It's nice to finally move on. If the fans had been there last year I doubt he would be here this year


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## Tashyboy (Aug 17, 2021)

Dortmund v Munich game looks very good on skysports


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 17, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			How can you disagree without having seen the incident?!

The Son tackle wasn't really a trip, there was more force applied, but it was still incredibly unlucky to have the consequences that it did. Really, what he did was a yellow card offence (hence why the red was over turned). In any case, Cantwell trips Jota, he doesn't hack him down, it just wasn't dangerous. Cynical? Absolutely, but that's a big part of the modern game and Klopp and Guardiola's sides are the best at it.

I don't like that part of the game, but i don't see how it's possible to introduce tougher punishments.
		
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The Klopp team that has finished top of the fair play league the last 3 seasons?

You need a new script writer.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 17, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Didn't take too long for this to turn in to the "what happened in the Liverpool game" thread 😂.

Its almost like week on week there's a Liverpool game and then loads of little side show games going on.
		
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Agreed, the others cant help themselves bringing us into everything.

The city fans hate it.


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 18, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			The Klopp team that has finished top of the fair play league the last 3 seasons?

You need a new script writer.
		
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LOL - standard Liverpool fan thinking everyone is thinking about them all the time, I don’t have a narrative in relation to Liverpool. My point was illustrative, i don’t care whether Liverpool are tactical foulers or not, my point was simply that the best teams are actually more guilty of tactical fouling than most others, Man City are a prime example, they’re very good at making sure teams don’t get any momentum by tackling or fouling quickly after turnover. Something like 8 seconds after turnover on average.

I don’t care about Liverpool and I’m happy to take your word for their fairness, but for what it’s worth the fair play league is a red herring with regard to the question of who is guilty of tactical fouling. It’s based on yellow and red cards only, given the top sides tend to have the most possession, they will commit fewer fouls, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t necessarily commit proportionally more fouls for every second they are not in possession, and they’re also more likely to commit fouls in the opposition half which are inherently less likely to result in a yellow card.


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 18, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Agreed, the others cant help themselves bringing us into everything.

The city fans hate it. 

Click to expand...

Don’t be daft, I’m a Norwich fan talking about a Norwich match.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Dortmund v Munich game looks very good on skysports
		
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It was a very good watch Tash
Can’t believe the age of some of the Dortmund team.
Bayern looked too strong.
Would love Harland at Utd worth breaking the bank for


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## Tashyboy (Aug 18, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			It was a very good watch Tash
Can’t believe the age of some of the Dortmund team.
Bayern looked too strong.
Would love Harland at Utd worth breaking the bank for
		
Click to expand...

The pace and intensity for a " friendly" was unreal. It only emphasised  about my disappointment at the lack of effort in Citys loss at the weekend. There some good kids at Dortmund.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 18, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			LOL - standard Liverpool fan thinking everyone is thinking about them all the time, I don’t have a narrative in relation to Liverpool. My point was illustrative, i don’t care whether Liverpool are tactical foulers or not, my point was simply that the best teams are actually more guilty of tactical fouling than most others, Man City are a prime example, they’re very good at making sure teams don’t get any momentum by tackling or fouling quickly after turnover. Something like 8 seconds after turnover on average.

I don’t care about Liverpool and I’m happy to take your word for their fairness, but for what it’s worth the fair play league is a red herring with regard to the question of who is guilty of tactical fouling. It’s based on yellow and red cards only, given the top sides tend to have the most possession, they will commit fewer fouls, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t necessarily commit proportionally more fouls for every second they are not in possession, and they’re also more likely to commit fouls in the opposition half which are inherently less likely to result in a yellow card.
		
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Firstly, it was from a non-Liverpool fan from Scotland who said that every talks about Liverpool, not any of us Liverpool fans, and he has a very valid point.

I agree a lot on what you say about how yellows and reds are apportioned, and not just looking at the stats, but to say we are in the same league for tactical fouling as City is massively incorrect. Liverpool are one of, if not the best pressing team in the prem, but more based on winning possession high than fouling high. City do both, if they dont win possession high they tactically foul high - Grealish was straight into it on Sunday. There is a difference.

If you said that Milner does it a lot - absolutely, Hendo sometimes and the others on occasion yes, but its not something the whole team does as much or as consistently as City. That is the difference, and would think that most neutrals would agree.

Cantwell - he had a great game at Anfield 2 years ago and I put him in my fantasy team at the time, but is like the new Lallana. He does some great little turns and flicks, but doesnt score enough at the top level and is the nearly man - nearly scores, nearly gets that great pass there etc.


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 18, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



*Firstly, it was from a non-Liverpool fan from Scotland who said that every talks about Liverpool, not any of us Liverpool fans, and he has a very valid point*.

I agree a lot on what you say about how yellows and reds are apportioned, and not just looking at the stats, but to say we are in the same league for tactical fouling as City is massively incorrect. Liverpool are one of, if not the best pressing team in the prem, but more based on winning possession high than fouling high. City do both, if they dont win possession high they tactically foul high - Grealish was straight into it on Sunday. There is a difference.

If you said that Milner does it a lot - absolutely, Hendo sometimes and the others on occasion yes, but its not something the whole team does as much or as consistently as City. That is the difference, and would think that most neutrals would agree.

Cantwell - he had a great game at Anfield 2 years ago and I put him in my fantasy team at the time, but is like the new Lallana. He does some great little turns and flicks, but doesnt score enough at the top level and is the nearly man - nearly scores, nearly gets that great pass there etc.
		
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In this case, it’s a Norwich supporter talking about a Norwich player 😂

Agree about Cantwell, he’s not really what we need in my opinion. I’m not saying he’s not a good player, clearly he is, but too often he looks very neat and tidy, looks after the ball well, but doesn’t cause the opposition enough problems. Needs to up his assists for me to go to the next level.

I wasn’t meaning to cause offence with my comment on Liverpool, the context was an observation that tactical fouling is part of the game at all levels, and the top as much as anywhere or perhaps more, and that it would be incredibly difficult to remove from the game. I’m sure you’re right about Liverpool, Man City and Arsenal definitely do it though! And they aren’t alone.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 19, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58233755

A good read for any Utd fan or neutral. How times have changed


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## Tashyboy (Aug 19, 2021)

Enough said. A humorous take on City’s shocking third kit


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

What a satisfying win , some excellent football , brilliant second goal , great to see Kostas filling in very well for Robbo. 

What a superb debut from young Elliot , going to be a cracking player .

Burnley - ale house football ,


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## GG26 (Aug 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Burnley - ale house football ,
		
Click to expand...

What a crass comment.

With the resources and talent available to them they have done extremely well these past few seasons.  There’s more than one style to winning matches and each are equally valid.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

GG26 said:



			What a crass comment.

With the resources and talent available to them they have done extremely well these past few seasons.  There’s more than one style to winning matches and each are equally valid.
		
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Why is it “crass” ? They spent a good deal of match kicking lumps out of players , elbows flying in on players - it’s only because of the incompetence of Dean that despite nearly 20 free kicks that no one got booked - at one stage one of their players picked up Jota and just threw him to the ground . So yeah ale house tactics and be good to see them go down


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## GG26 (Aug 21, 2021)

I recall Steve McManaman in commentary saying what a good game Dean had as ref. Enough said.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

GG26 said:



			I recall Steve McManaman in commentary saying what a good game Dean had as ref. Enough said.
		
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If Steve McManaman is the go to expert being relied upon then good luck - he is prob the worst there is.

So do you think wrestling some off his feet and then to the ground is at home on a rugby pitch or football pitch ? It was just thug tactics hence why Barnes played because he throws himself about


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If Steve McManaman is the go to expert being relied upon then good luck - he is prob the worst there is.

So do you think wrestling some off his feet and then to the ground is at home on a rugby pitch or football pitch ? It was just thug tactics hence why Barnes played because he throws himself about
		
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But clearly knows more about football than a hockey player on a golf forum.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			But clearly knows more about football than a hockey player on a golf forum.
		
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Interesting counter debate on the subject there 🙄


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 21, 2021)

Wonder if we’ll get a Liverpool game this season without any whinging on here afterwards 🤦‍♂️
Why always us? 🎻


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## hairball_89 (Aug 21, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wonder if we’ll get a Liverpool game this season without any whinging on here afterwards 🤦‍♂️
Why always us? 🎻
		
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Doubt it. I'll always moan about Burnley, we don't have to be playing them!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting counter debate on the subject there 🙄
		
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A debate with yourself on the subject of football would be one of the more futile exercises in my life.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			A debate with yourself on the subject of football would be one of the more futile exercises in my life.
		
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Good escape for me


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good escape for me
		
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Bully for you.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Bully for you.
		
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Do you have anything to actually add to the thread or just here to have digs at me 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2021)

Are we gonna have to have this every week again this season?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you have anything to actually add to the thread or just here to have digs at me 🤷‍♂️
		
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There is no thread, just your usual one-eyed slant on a Liverpool game.

What is there to debate when apparently you know more about the  game than Steve McManaman?


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## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			Are we gonna have to have this every week again this season?
		
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unfortunately some things will never change 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			Are we gonna have to have this every week again this season?
		
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It appears that way - just a waste of space now


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## Captainron (Aug 21, 2021)

Burnley play football the way the Springboks play rugby. Difference is that the Springboks win most of their games. 

we can’t all be the all blacks or the Fiji 7’s team


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## 4LEX (Aug 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Enough said. A humorous take on City’s shocking third kit
		
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That's wishful thinking, you'd be lucky to give him away on his wages!


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## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2021)

4LEX said:



			That's wishful thinking, you'd be lucky to give him away on his wages!
		
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He drives me barmy, he is a poor mans Balotelli. He is more interested in social media than football.One of the worst signings for City.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It appears that way - just a waste of space now
		
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Yeah because obviously you’re not a big part of the problem,even tho you always seem to be in the middle of it 🤦‍♂️

Just look at your posts on the day of the Euros final 🤷‍♂️
#mrpopular


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## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			Are we gonna have to have this every week again this season?
		
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The odd thing is, last week I was talking to daughters partner about football teams and the clubs themselves. We were discussing how some fans still think there teams are as big as there clubs. Chelsea at the moment, big club and big team. But Newcastle big club small team. Look at Brentford. Small club big team. he is a Sheff weds fan and he said that a lot of supporters still see Sheff weds as a big club and a big team in Division one. 
My point is that you could look at Burnley, they are not a massive club but season after season they/ the team are doing what they have to do to survive. You could look at half a dozen teams in the Prem league and they will be doing exactly the same, upsetting the big teams. Look at Spurs last week 😉. ( That’s a joke). But me point is, you do not have to play attractive football to survive.
These small teams that play scruffy football upset the big teams every week.These small teams cost Liverpool a title last season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429100650336489475
Getting the goal of the season in early


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The odd thing is, last week I was talking to daughters partner about football teams and the clubs themselves. We were discussing how some fans still think there teams are as big as there clubs. Chelsea at the moment, big club and big team. But Newcastle big club small team. Look at Brentford. Small club big team. he is a Sheff weds fan and he said that a lot of supporters still see Sheff weds as a big club and a big team in Division one.
My point is that you could look at Burnley, they are not a massive club but season after season they/ the team are doing what they have to do to survive. You could look at half a dozen teams in the Prem league and they will be doing exactly the same, upsetting the big teams. Look at Spurs last week 😉. ( That’s a joke). But me point is, you do not have to play attractive football to survive.
These small teams that play scruffy football upset the big teams every week.These small teams cost Liverpool a title last season.
		
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And yet some fans of the big teams get upset with this approach and think that the "small" teams should just turn up and roll over rather than putting up any opposition. How dare these small teams turn up and put in any challenges on their superstar players. They should stand back and simply admire the football that the big teams play.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And yet some fans of the big teams get upset with this approach and think that the "small" teams should just turn up and roll over rather than putting up any opposition. How dare these small teams turn up and put in any challenges on their superstar players. They should stand back and simply admire the football that the big teams play.
		
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Spot on 👍🏻


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And yet some fans of the big teams get upset with this approach and think that the "small" teams should just turn up and roll over rather than putting up any opposition. How dare these small teams turn up and put in any challenges on their superstar players. They should stand back and simply admire the football that the big teams play.
		
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I have no issues with teams playing a different way - there are many ways of getting the ball into the net - my comment was more about the persistent deliberate fouling that at times was overly physical and could have ended up with someone getting a serious injury - Barnes was leading with elbows all the time and caught players a number of times ( Dean giving the foul for it 3 times but didn’t book him ) , players being picked up and thrown to the floor. 

Teams can be physical and have a good battle but there should always been a line and at times Burnley imo crossed that line and were allowed to because Dean didn’t stamp it out quick enough 

Certainly never expect a team to just roll over.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no issues with teams playing a different way - there are many ways of getting the ball into the net - my comment was more about the persistent deliberate fouling that at times was overly physical and could have ended up with someone getting a serious injury - Barnes was leading with elbows all the time and caught players a number of times ( Dean giving the foul for it 3 times but didn’t book him ) , players being picked up and thrown to the floor.

Teams can be physical and have a good battle but there should always been a line and at times Burnley imo crossed that line and were allowed to because Dean didn’t stamp it out quick enough

Certainly never expect a team to just roll over.
		
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Blimey I didn’t see the game but I’m expecting WWE on MOTD later,going on your posts 🍿 😂


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 21, 2021)

Burnley play a physical game that’s no surprise.
But for all that they created some very good chances and a bit better finishing could have cost us.
They played well imo and to their strengths.

But Phil is right about the throwing him to the floor, that’s poor from the ref.

Nice to have a CF hanging on the shoulders of the CBS one little run across him and it’s in the net.
Tsmikas really good today , but TAA was brilliant as was Matip imo.
We needed the second goal. And what a great goal it was.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Burnley play a physical game that’s no surprise.
But for all that they created some very good chances and a bit better finishing could have cost us.
They played well imo and to their strengths.

But Phil is right about the throwing him to the floor, that’s poor from the ref.

Nice to have a CF hanging on the shoulders of the CBS one little run across him and it’s in the net.
Tsmikas really good today , but TAA was brilliant as was Matip imo.
We needed the second goal. And what a great goal it was.
		
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Bet there were a few fouls in the other 5 games played in the Prem today aswell 😊


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Burnley play a physical game that’s no surprise.
But for all that they created some very good chances and a bit better finishing could have cost us.
They played well imo and to their strengths.

But Phil is right about the throwing him to the floor, that’s poor from the ref.

Nice to have a CF hanging on the shoulders of the CBS one little run across him and it’s in the net.
Tsmikas really good today , but TAA was brilliant as was Matip imo.
We needed the second goal. And what a great goal it was.
		
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TAA was outstanding going forward , some of his passing was out of the world and the ball for the second goal was sublime , solid at the back as well , you can tell he feels far more comfortable with VVD - his creativity is key


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429186546771533825


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 21, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Bet there were a few fouls in the other 5 games played in the Prem today aswell 😊
		
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It wasn’t just a foul !
He picked him up off the floor and threw him down.
That’s not football as I know it.
When you see it you might agree but you might not.
But am pretty sure you won’t see another foul like it without a card coming out.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			TAA was outstanding going forward , some of his passing was out of the world and the ball for the second goal was sublime , solid at the back as well , you can tell he feels far more comfortable with VVD - his creativity is key


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429186546771533825

Click to expand...

Thought Matip handled the physical side well also .
The forwards were good today they look sharp but finishing needs to be ruthless to get the second goal and calm the nerves.


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## 4LEX (Aug 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Burnley play a physical game that’s no surprise.
But for all that they created some very good chances and a bit better finishing could have cost us.
They played well imo and to their strengths.

But Phil is right about the throwing him to the floor, that’s poor from the ref.

Nice to have a CF hanging on the shoulders of the CBS one little run across him and it’s in the net.
Tsmikas really good today , but TAA was brilliant as was Matip imo.
We needed the second goal. And what a great goal it was.
		
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You talk too much sense to be a Liverpool fan! Must've been brilliant to have a full Anfield after 18 months.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2021)

I find It odd all this talk of fouls so early in the season. After 36 mins in last weeks game a Spurs player had conceded 4 fouls, he had been spoken to twice. Yet nothing happened, no bookings nothing. In fact he went onto get MOTM. Now do we allow players to  have four fouls minimum before yellow cards come out. I don’t know. Sometimes these new directives come out and it seems we are cracking a nut with A 14lb hammer.


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## 4LEX (Aug 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			He drives me barmy, he is a poor mans Balotelli. He is more interested in social media than football.One of the worst signings for City.
		
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£50m cheerleader! Don't think I've ever seen a Premier League player with worse touch, control or passing. Bar Bakayoko at Chelsea a few years ago.


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I find It odd all this talk of fouls so early in the season. After 36 mins in last weeks game a Spurs player had conceded 4 fouls, he had been spoken to twice. Yet nothing happened, no bookings nothing. In fact he went onto get MOTM. Now do we allow players to  have four fouls minimum before yellow cards come out. I don’t know. Sometimes these new directives come out and it seems we are cracking a nut with A 14lb hammer.
		
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shouldve got the ref from last nights Swansea game, barely a bad tackle in the game and somehow he got the yellow card out 10 times!!!!

7 yellows at villa and 6 at leeds too today, some very very different interpretations going on currently


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2021)

Another player being diagnosed with dementia 😢


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429194217033773069


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no issues with teams playing a different way - there are many ways of getting the ball into the net - my comment was more about the persistent deliberate fouling that at times was overly physical and could have ended up with someone getting a serious injury - Barnes was leading with elbows all the time and caught players a number of times ( Dean giving the foul for it 3 times but didn’t book him ) , players being picked up and thrown to the floor.

Teams can be physical and have a good battle but there should always been a line and at times Burnley imo crossed that line and were allowed to because Dean didn’t stamp it out quick enough

Certainly never expect a team to just roll over.
		
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Well having seen it I’ve got to agree with the boys on MOTD,think you’re being a bit of a drama queen tbh Phil 😬


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2021)

4LEX said:



			You talk too much sense to be a Liverpool fan! Must've been brilliant to have a full Anfield after 18 months.
		
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Just say it like I see it.
Burnley need to score more goals but they will upset a few big teams.

We would not have lost so many games at home last year if the crowd were there.
They lift the team so much.


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## SteveJay (Aug 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I find It odd all this talk of fouls so early in the season. After 36 mins in last weeks game a Spurs player had conceded 4 fouls, he had been spoken to twice. Yet nothing happened, no bookings nothing. In fact he went onto get MOTM. Now do we allow players to  have four fouls minimum before yellow cards come out. I don’t know. Sometimes these new directives come out and it seems we are cracking a nut with A 14lb hammer.
		
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Don't think the rules tot up numbers of fouls leading to a booking, as in, say basketball. As far as I am aware, a player could theoretically commit minor fouls all game but if none of them warranted a booking he would get off scot free.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			We would not have lost so many games at home last year if the crowd were there.
They lift the team so much.
		
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The same applies to all teams, a lot of home records were awful last year. Equally that means away records were a little skewed as well, balancing out.

I think something we can all agree on, it's great to have fans back in grounds. It's a different game with them in the ground.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2021)

MotD was a good watch this morning, some good games yesterday. Happy to take a point at a bouncing Elland Road although based on chances 3 were up for grabs. Saying that I suspect Leeds fans were thinking the same. What is pleasing from an Everton perspective is that Rafa is not simply sitting back, we are attacking teams and when we play on the break we go in numbers, not just 1 or 2 players with a huge gap to the midfield. If we can keep Gray feeling the love and he maintains his current level then he is going to be an absolute steal.

Great goal by Ings for Villa. If they can keep him out on the pitch then he will be huge for them. A proper striker, so good to see.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The same applies to all teams, a lot of home records were awful last year. Equally that means away records were a little skewed as well, balancing out.

I think something we can all agree on, it's great to have fans back in grounds. It's a different game with them in the ground.
		
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Yes I agree.
But six losses on the trot is very unusual for Liverpool.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			MotD was a good watch this morning, some good games yesterday. Happy to take a point at a bouncing Elland Road although based on chances 3 were up for grabs. Saying that I suspect Leeds fans were thinking the same. What is pleasing from an Everton perspective is that Rafa is not simply sitting back, we are attacking teams and when we play on the break we go in numbers, not just 1 or 2 players with a huge gap to the midfield. If we can keep Gray feeling the love and he maintains his current level then he is going to be an absolute steal.

Great goal by Ings for Villa. If they can keep him out on the pitch then he will be huge for them. A proper striker, so good to see.
		
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Yes Gray looks the bargain of the season if he carries on like that.
Might have a pound on DCL for top goalscorer.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			MotD was a good watch this morning, some good games yesterday. Happy to take a point at a bouncing Elland Road although based on chances 3 were up for grabs. Saying that I suspect Leeds fans were thinking the same. What is pleasing from an Everton perspective is that Rafa is not simply sitting back, we are attacking teams and when we play on the break we go in numbers, not just 1 or 2 players with a huge gap to the midfield. If we can keep Gray feeling the love and he maintains his current level then he is going to be an absolute steal.

Great goal by Ings for Villa. If they can keep him out on the pitch then he will be huge for them. A proper striker, so good to see.
		
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Thoughts on the Leeds penalty appeal at the end?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
But six losses on the trot is very unusual for Liverpool.
		
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Yes but don’t forget you were also the only team in history to get injuries 😊


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yes but don’t forget you were also the only team in history to get injuries 😊
		
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Don’t be silly now.
We just had the most


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Thoughts on the Leeds penalty appeal at the end?
		
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Never for me.
But DCL started the fight in the other incident so I don’t think that was either.
Attackers get away with this a lot when defenders pull back.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes Gray looks the bargain of the season if he carries on like that.
Might have a pound on DCL for top goalscorer.
		
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DCL tends to score in batches but if we keep banging crosses across as we have done first 2 games then those numbers should smooth out. Any striker would love service like he is getting and he must be there or there abouts as top scorer come the end of the season. 

They mentioned on motd about Gray maintaining this, something he hasn't been able to do before. Hopefully he can do this, perhaps his role in the team suits him better than it did at Leicester?


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2021)

Good to have Dele back, skilfully winning penalties. 👌🏻


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Thoughts on the Leeds penalty appeal at the end?
		
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It would have been soft. I don't think the challenge was excessive, he wasn't wrapped around him. Mina showed good strength, did enough to put him off, no more.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Never for me.
But DCL started the fight in the other incident so I don’t think that was either.
Attackers get away with this a lot when defenders pull back.
		
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Yeah tbh I thought the Leeds one was if the Everton one was given,but neither were for me.


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## Slime (Aug 22, 2021)

What a poor game.
One deflected goal and one miss-hit goal, that just about sums it up.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2021)

Peculiar performance by utd. They went average, dominant and then back to average. Fair play to Southampton who should have won it when Armstrong was through but really poor from a utd perspective.

It looks like it's going to be a long season for Southampton, big game for them next week against Newcastle.


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2021)

Unbelievable that we've won that.  Wolves must have had near enough 70% possession. We didn't do much at all. I did feel Wolves would struggle this season though and this backs it up - they can't score goals! Traore ran us ragged a bit, but he can't shoot at all luckily. If Jimenez doesn't get back his best (and will be hard for him to do that of course), I can't see where their goals are going to come from.

Was like a Mourinho game today, felt all too familiar but the late equaliser never came. Oh well, six points and none conceded, can't complain!


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2021)

Slime said:



			What a poor game.
One deflected goal and one miss-hit goal, that just about sums it up.
		
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Screwed my bet up,thought Spurs was the dodgy one 😒


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## Bazzatron (Aug 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Unbelievable that we've won that.  Wolves must have had near enough 70% possession. We didn't do much at all. I did feel Wolves would struggle this season though and this backs it up - they can't score goals! Traore ran us ragged a bit, but he can't shoot at all luckily. If Jimenez doesn't get back his best (and will be hard for him to do that of course), I can't see where their goals are going to come from.

Was like a Mourinho game today, felt all too familiar but the late equaliser never came. Oh well, six points and none conceded, can't complain!
		
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The goals will come. 

Get used to that sort of performance fron Nuno, not done much and still won.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 22, 2021)

I've no idea how we've got nothing from that game. 
If we lose Traore and Neves we're completely and utterly stuffed, time for the board to back the new manager, the most entertained I've been watching Wolves in a very long time.


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## Piece (Aug 22, 2021)

Chelsea look rather tasty.

If Arteta is reading this, Tierney needs help. 😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2021)

Piece said:



			Chelsea look rather tasty.

If Arteta is reading this, Tierney needs help. 😉
		
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Men and boys at the moment. Arteta will need to give a heck of a half time talk.

Edit: alternatively, someone told them about my post and it angered them 😳😆. Good ending to the half from arsenal.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 22, 2021)

4LEX said:



			£50m cheerleader! Don't think I've ever seen a Premier League player with worse touch, control or passing. Bar Bakayoko at Chelsea a few years ago.
		
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His ball into the box is sublime, everything after that is on a par with me. Including pace


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2021)

Looks like Arteta needs a hearing aid - apparently didn’t hear the boos of the crowd


I still don’t understand how he is in the job , just like OGS - zero track record at any top level job.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429463015745785865
Quality from Fred


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## AmandaJR (Aug 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			His ball into the box is sublime, everything after that is on a par with me. Including pace
		
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Sublime - sometimes...he's shocking.

How impressive was Jesus out wide though?? Had a brilliant game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2021)

Watching the Roma game and Abraham goes through but goes wide , GK comes out tries to slide tackle - the very slightest of touches and he goes down outside the box and the red gives a red card 😂😂😂 two players got back as well


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## 4LEX (Aug 22, 2021)

Slime said:



			What a poor game.
One deflected goal and one miss-hit goal, that just about sums it up.
		
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Gotta win those games, too much hype from the Leeds game which was a suicide mission from Leeds. Literally attacked with numbers and left huge gaps for Pogba to exploit. Park the bus and you can see how badly managed Utd are. Still early days but worrying signs Ole has learnt nothing.


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## SaintHacker (Aug 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It looks like it's going to be a long season for Southampton, .
		
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Really? 2 games in, one at Goodison where we haven't won since dinosaurs were still roaming, and a point at home against a Utd side who are unbeaten in the last 27 away games. A couple of exciting signings already this sumer with one or two more mooted, I think we're going to be just fine this season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Gotta win those games, too much hype from the Leeds game which was a suicide mission from Leeds. Literally attacked with numbers and left huge gaps for Pogba to exploit. Park the bus and you can see how badly managed Utd are. Still early days *but worrying signs Ole has learnt nothing.*

Click to expand...

Did anyone really expect him too ? Until Man Utd get a proven top class manager then the inconsistency will stay - its like having a learner driver in an F1 car - all the tools maybe top class but a waste if you can’t get them working together. 

It also doesn’t help spending £80mil on a winger when the centre mids are nowhere near good enough


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## Cherry13 (Aug 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Really? 2 games in, one at Goodison where we haven't won since dinosaurs were still roaming, and a point at home against a Utd side who are unbeaten in the last 27 away games. A couple of exciting signings already this sumer with one or two more mooted, I think we're going to be just fine this season.
		
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As a Newcastle fan, our next game against your lot already feels huge.  If we don’t get anything from it, we’ll be lucky to be on 6 points by November, and Bruce will still be there.  
Hopefully we can get a CB and proper defensive midfielder in, but it’s not looking good


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## nickjdavis (Aug 22, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			As a Newcastle fan, our next game against your lot already feels huge.  If we don’t get anything from it, we’ll be lucky to be on 6 points by November, and Bruce will still be there. 
Hopefully we can get a CB and proper defensive midfielder in, but it’s not looking good
		
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We would be better off with a Polish bricklayer.

Nailed on for Adam Armstrong to score against us next week. I'll give the forum that "top tip" for free...everybody can thank me on Saturday evening.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 22, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Sublime - sometimes...he's shocking.

How impressive was Jesus out wide though?? Had a brilliant game.
		
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Was reading  piece where Jesus plays out wide for Brazil. One reason why, Neymar. If its good enough for Brazil its good enough for City.
That said, interesting to hear oles thoughts on fouls this season,  he feels the new Interpretation has gone to far. As do I..watch this space as I think it will be this years VAR


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Really? 2 games in, one at Goodison where we haven't won since dinosaurs were still roaming, and a point at home against a Utd side who are unbeaten in the last 27 away games. A couple of exciting signings already this sumer with one or two more mooted, I think we're going to be just fine this season.
		
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You're right, it's early days, a point against utd after their rampage last week is a good point. I just don't see a spark in the team and you don't have the goals of Ings this year. Saying that, get 3 points at St James Park next week, sit on 4 points and alls well. Points not performance, performance can come👍


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## fundy (Aug 22, 2021)

wow, horrid scenes in France. A bottle got thrown from the crowd and hit Payet, Payet threw the bottle back into the crowd and then some of the fans stormed the pitch and started to fight with the players


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			wow, horrid scenes in France. A bottle got thrown from the crowd and hit Payet, Payet threw the bottle back into the crowd and then some of the fans stormed the pitch and started to fight with the players 

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429541569523298307
😲😲😲


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## Cherry13 (Aug 23, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			We would be better off with a Polish bricklayer.

Nailed on for Adam Armstrong to score against us next week. I'll give the forum that "top tip" for free...everybody can thank me on Saturday evening.
		
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Him and Toney to have great games against us, then no doubt when longstaff leaves he’ll have a great game.  We’ve always been useless at bringing through talent or selling at the right time. 

Aside from a polish bricklayer, if he does get rid of Bruce, then who?? Hughes was odds on favourite last year, that’s just as much a concern.  Can’t see us attracting anyone with a ‘philosophy’ like Howe, although Parker might be a viable cheap option, but un-proven.


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## nickjdavis (Aug 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			wow, horrid scenes in France. A bottle got thrown from the crowd and hit Payet, Payet threw the bottle back into the crowd and then some of the fans stormed the pitch and started to fight with the players 

Click to expand...

2nd week in a row it has happened....think it was Montpellier v. Marseilles last week.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			We’ve always been useless at bringing through talent or selling at the right time.
		
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Considering the catchment area for Newcastle, who else they compete against for talent, it staggers me how poor the generation of talent is through the academy at Newcastle. Who has come out of there in the last 20yrs?

I know from my sons time playing junior football, 7-8 years ago, that the better players preferred to go to Sunderland as their academy had a better reputation. That is quite an indictment.


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## Cherry13 (Aug 23, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Considering the catchment area for Newcastle, who else they compete against for talent, it staggers me how poor the generation of talent is through the academy at Newcastle. Who has come out of there in the last 20yrs?

I know from my sons time playing junior football, 7-8 years ago, that the better players preferred to go to Sunderland as their academy had a better reputation. That is quite an indictment.
		
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Same when I was a junior 25 years ago, Sunderland and Middlesbrough were miles ahead. 
The untapped talent is huge, you just need to look at the fa vase and the number of loca teams that win it to see there’s obviously a huge amount of raw talent, it just unfortunately doesn’t get the right nurturing… the various fa’s (Northumberland/Durham) do a decent job, but you need an elite academy to get players up to PL level. 

The 2 fa’s even do a decent job bringing through refs, the most recent example being Rebecca Welch


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## Tashyboy (Aug 23, 2021)

I stand corrected, but going back 20 years a team called Wallsend boys came down to the Mansfield area. My lads team played them. At the time my sons team were the second best in mansfield at his age group. The Wallsend boys battered them.  They were astonishing to watch, am sure they said kids from.that club eg Beardsley, waddle etc went onto play for Newcastle.


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## Cherry13 (Aug 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I stand corrected, but going back 20 years a team called Wallsend boys came down to the Mansfield area. My lads team played them. At the time my sons team were the second best in mansfield at his age group. The Wallsend boys battered them.  They were astonishing to watch, am sure they said kids from.that club eg Beardsley, waddle etc went onto play for Newcastle.
		
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You’re right wallsend are excellent, and an absolute gem in the north east football scene, there roll call of players is excellent including the current manager, Shearer, Carrick, loads of them.  The problem is typically lads go elsewhere after wallsend, because they are a well known hotbed. 

Liverpool have just took the current starlet (Lee Clark’s son), and Man Utd took the last gem (Shola Shoretire). Unfortunately the path from wallsend boys to premier league footballer does not often go via Newcastle.  

Also, the less said about Pedro and the academy the better.  Unfortunately he has set them back a good few years.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I stand corrected, but going back 20 years a team called Wallsend boys came down to the Mansfield area. My lads team played them. At the time my sons team were the second best in mansfield at his age group. The Wallsend boys battered them.  They were astonishing to watch, am sure they said kids from.that club eg Beardsley, waddle etc went onto play for Newcastle.
		
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My sons team was in a league with them for two seasons. It was an absolute pleasure to watch them school his team 😄. It was one of those where as parents we just stood on the sidelines purring at their play, we didn't care about the score. They were playing Pep football, nothing over physical, nothing humped forwards, all movement and silky passing.

The ethos of the club was excellent, really good coaching, no arrogance. They do attract the best players, trials every year, but even so they do a great job with them.

One of the issues now is that academies vacuum up the best players and then restrict how and where they play. They really do have a lot of control and if that academy is not great then you are messing up a lot of talent.


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## Slime (Aug 23, 2021)

I heard today that Burnley have gone 95 Premier League games without a player getting a red card!
That's awesome, well done them.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2021)

Slime said:



			I heard today that Burnley have gone 95 Premier League games without a player getting a red card!
That's awesome, well done them.
		
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A team of thugs but no red cards 🤔🤣

Sexy goal from West Ham 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2021)

Now that should be looked at by VAR - that’s a red card surely


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Now that should be looked at by VAR - that’s a red card surely
		
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That will be a yes.

The system working.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 23, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My sons team was in a league with them for two seasons. It was an absolute pleasure to watch them school his team 😄. It was one of those where as parents we just stood on the sidelines purring at their play, we didn't care about the score. They were playing Pep football, nothing over physical, nothing humped forwards, all movement and silky passing.

The ethos of the club was excellent, really good coaching, no arrogance. They do attract the best players, trials every year, but even so they do a great job with them.

One of the issues now is that academies vacuum up the best players and then restrict how and where they play. They really do have a lot of control and if that academy is not great then you are messing up a lot of talent.
		
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I've found the same thing watching cricket. Mal Loye was in my brother's age group and I watched an U16 game they were playing in, Norfolk v Northants. Loye scored an absolutely effortless hundred and was clearly several levels above anyone else on the pitch. Also played against Michael Vaughan against Yorkshire U15 and watched him stroke the ball around the ground for a chanceless hundred. Even at that age the difference in quality between someone who is going to make it to the top level and those at the next level down is clear.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That will be a yes.

The system working.
		
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Yep - that was a good example of it working and being done quickly


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## Junior (Aug 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep - that was a good example of it working and being done quickly
		
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The only other thing he should have done was pulled out the yellow card for Schmeichel and a couple of the leicester players who were persistently in his face protesting.  Fernández was doing the same yesterday and was rightly booked.   Needs stamping out.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 23, 2021)

Junior said:



			The only other thing he should have done was pulled out the yellow card for Schmeichel and a couple of the leicester players who were persistently in his face protesting.  Fernández was doing the same yesterday and should have been booked.   Needs stamping out.
		
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What I didn't understand yesterday was that Fernandes got booked for his protests to the ref after the Southampton goal. That's fair enough, no idea what he said, but a few minutes earlier one of the Southampton players protested against a decision and could clearly be seen telling the ref that it was "Flipping testicles" (I might have made that Mod friendly and the actual words used were less forum appropriate). The ref chose to simply have a talk to him and the Southampton captain. I can't believe that what Fernandes said was much worse than what the Southampton player said, and if it was then it should've been a straight red card.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2021)

Junior said:



			The only other thing he should have done was pulled out the yellow card for Schmeichel and a couple of the leicester players who were persistently in his face protesting.  Fernández was doing the same yesterday and was rightly booked.   Needs stamping out.
		
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Yes - every now and then they book someone and you think that the start of doing it to all and yet nothing - always remember when Mascherano was set off for constantly going at the red and it was expected to be a new dawn of players showing more respect - well no one else did and it took about a week before players were surrounding the ref and screaming at him


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 23, 2021)

Junior said:



			The only other thing he should have done was pulled out the yellow card for Schmeichel and a couple of the leicester players who were persistently in his face protesting.  Fernández was doing the same yesterday and was rightly booked.   Needs stamping out.
		
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Totally agree.
Maybe let the captain have a word.
But he’s just been to the monitor he’s not changing his mind.
Not excusing the challenge but he was challenged and pushed from behind ,but he had time imo to pull out in time.
So a correct red .


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 23, 2021)

Benrhama trying to con the ref.
Holding his knee when no contact 
No yellows for diving now?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 23, 2021)

Slime said:



			I heard today that Burnley have gone 95 Premier League games without a player getting a red card!
That's awesome, well done them.
		
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Good honest team,hope they stop up 😊


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## Orikoru (Aug 23, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			What I didn't understand yesterday was that Fernandes got booked for his protests to the ref after the Southampton goal. That's fair enough, no idea what he said, but a few minutes earlier one of the Southampton players protested against a decision and could clearly be seen telling the ref that it was "Flipping testicles" (I might have made that Mod friendly and the actual words used were less forum appropriate). The ref chose to simply have a talk to him and the Southampton captain. I can't believe that what Fernandes said was much worse than what the Southampton player said, and if it was then it should've been a straight red card.
		
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The worst thing you can say to a ref is calling him a cheat. Quite a few refs would consider that worse than the other C word or anything else you could say to them. So maybe Bruno said that, who knows.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The worst thing you can say to a ref is calling him a cheat. Quite a few refs would consider that worse than the other C word or anything else you could say to them. So maybe Bruno said that, who knows.
		
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I remember a ref saying to us .
“It’s not really what you say it’s the way you say it”
It sets a very poor example and we see the kids in the park doing it.
But calling him a cheat is a no no.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The worst thing you can say to a ref is calling him a cheat. Quite a few refs would consider that worse than the other C word or anything else you could say to them. So maybe Bruno said that, who knows.
		
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Would expect that to be a straight red if you call the ref a cheat so don't think it can have been that.


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## fundy (Aug 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The worst thing you can say to a ref is calling him a cheat. Quite a few refs would consider that worse than the other C word or anything else you could say to them. So maybe Bruno said that, who knows.
		
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cant have happened, not a cat in hells chance the ref wouldnt be rolling around on the floor 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2021)

This could be in the irritation thread but I'm sticking it here. Sky making a big fuss because Antonio is now the leading PL scorer for West Ham. Ignore the umpteen other players who have scored more in the club's history.

I know, I know,  football didn't exist before the PL etc 🙄. It's still annoying.

He has been excellent tonight mind 😄


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## GG26 (Aug 23, 2021)

The only good thing to come out of tonight’s game is that Perez will now miss three matches.  I’ve yet to see why he keeps getting picked.  Would be good to see either Soumare or Daka get a start.

We desperately need some of our defenders to get fit again.  We are missing Castagne, Bertrand, Fofana, Justin, Evans, Vestergaard.  Amartey is our sixth choice centre back.  I see a difficult first ten matches before we get a run together.

West Ham are going to have a good season.  I thought they would have our measure and so it proved.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 23, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This could be in the irritation thread but I'm sticking it here. Sky making a big fuss because Antonio is now the leading PL scorer for West Ham. Ignore the umpteen other players who have scored more in the club's history.

I know, I know,  football didn't exist before the PL etc 🙄. It's still annoying.

He has been excellent tonight mind 😄
		
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More the fact Di Canio was the record for so long 

Look at how many Kane gets in 2 seasons it's more than the total Antonio has now


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			More the fact Di Canio was the record for so long

Look at how many Kane gets in 2 seasons it's more than the total Antonio has now
		
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Yes .
I know it’s all about the squad but I would be a bit peed off if I was on a hat trick against 10 men and the manager subs me.
Impressive display even before the red .


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## pauljames87 (Aug 23, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes .
I know it’s all about the squad but I would be a bit peed off if I was on a hat trick against 10 men and the manager subs me.
Impressive display even before the red .
		
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Need to keep him fit, he's our only "striker" 

Nice to see fornals and benramha score aswell .. adapted well


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## pendodave (Aug 23, 2021)

Was fortunate enough to be at the game this evening. A life affirming experience.


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## pendodave (Aug 23, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes .
I know it’s all about the squad but I would be a bit peed off if I was on a hat trick against 10 men and the manager subs me.
Impressive display even before the red .
		
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 His hammies could literally ping at any time. It's a constant source of stress when watching. 
Plus, it gave the crowd the chance to give him a special cheer, which was great


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## Fade and Die (Aug 23, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Was fortunate enough to be at the game this evening. A life affirming experience.
		
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Brilliant wasn’t it. We are in new seats in the lower section and it was absolutely rocking. When the 3rd went in! 🧨💥🤪


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Need to keep him fit, he's our only "striker"
		
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Out of interest, who is your back up?


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## pauljames87 (Aug 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Out of interest, who is your back up?
		
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Bowen or yarmeleko can both play in his role 

When we had lingard it was him playing the false 9


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## Orikoru (Aug 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Bowen or yarmeleko can both play in his role

When we had lingard it was him playing the false 9
		
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Why don't you buy a striker or something?


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## pauljames87 (Aug 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Why don't you buy a striker or something?
		
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If only. Moyes did hit it on the head that he doesn't want to just buy a striker to say right we have bought a striker. He wants the right player to fit his close knit squad who will play the way we play 

Rather than when we paid 45 million for Haller who was great but didn't suit our system 

He got lingard in instead as he could play anywhere in a front 3 and play a false 9 and proved him right


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Why don't you buy a striker or something?
		
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Harry Kane’s for sale


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Why don't you buy a striker or something?
		
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If only it’s that easy for clubs , West Ham just like Newcastle have spent a fair amount looking for a striker in the past and it’s very hard to judge - look at players like Joelinton , Haller , Soldaldo for examples of strikers that have arrived in the Prem scoring goals but flop because it’s a different ball game 

Also a lot of teams are moving away from the traditional striker/no 9 and getting players that are more flexible to play across the front line 

Watching West Ham last night they looked to have a good balance with Bowen , Benhrama and Fornals behind Antonio who seemed to do a lot a great work down the channels and which allowed those other three to float in. Someone like Lingard would be the type of player they would look to bring in but they need someone because Antonio has issues with his hamstrings.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 24, 2021)

I think Moyes is still hoping to get Lingard last minute, would prefer that to money driven Kurt Zouma! On £125k a week but wants a pay rise!


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 24, 2021)

Just seen on Twitter that Elland Rd as been voted the best atmosphere in the Premier league.
Thoughts?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 24, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just seen on Twitter that Elland Rd as been voted the best atmosphere in the Premier league.
Thoughts?
		
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Votes only taken in West Yorkshire?

Selhurst Park, seems to bounce pretty well for most matches. A proper old school ground. Interested to hear what the hardcore on here who go to away matches suggest.


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## Hobbit (Aug 24, 2021)

Always found Goodison to be the best I visited. Certainly the noisiest. Brilliant atmosphere.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 24, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Always found Goodison to be the best I visited. Certainly the noisiest. Brilliant atmosphere.
		
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It didn't feel right to suggest your own club but 👏😆


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Votes only taken in West Yorkshire?

Selhurst Park, seems to bounce pretty well for most matches. A proper old school ground. Interested to hear what the hardcore on here who go to away matches suggest.
		
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😂 not sure tbh mate.
Newcastle as got to be up there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2021)

So Real Madrid with a gross debt of around £700mil have bid £137mil for Mbappe - amazing


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Real Madrid with a gross debt of around £700mil have bid £137mil for Mbappe - amazing
		
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Be a good signing if it comes off.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 24, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just seen on Twitter that Elland Rd as been voted the best atmosphere in the Premier league.
Thoughts?
		
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How many games have there been with a crowd in the premier League (since they came up??) I mean it was fanless ....


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## Beezerk (Aug 24, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Newcastle as got to be up there.
		
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Nah are you joking? The new stadium has killed the atmosphere there, it's just a sort of murmuring goes off there now, never any sort of proper singing and what you would call a football atmosphere. Then again have you met a happy Newcastle fan over the last 20 years?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			How many games have there been with a crowd in the premier League (since they came up??) I mean it was fanless ....
		
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Maybe it was which Premier league stadium as the best atmosphere 🤷‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 24, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			😂 not sure tbh mate.
Newcastle as got to be up there.
		
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Couldn't disagree more. Great for the first two minutes and then it either goes dead or becomes hostile to the team, manager, owner (delete accordingly). I'd say it's one of the great myths of football.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Couldn't disagree more. Great for the first two minutes and then it either goes dead or becomes hostile to the team, manager, owner (delete accordingly). I'd say it's one of the great myths of football.
		
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No surprise when they have Bruce as manager


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No surprise when they have Bruce as manager
		
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Bar the Keegan years it's been like that since I came up here in '89. The target changes, take your pick of the three options I quoted, but the hostile reaction towards their own remains consistent. It's bizarrely self destructive.


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## Beezerk (Aug 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bar the Keegan years it's been like that since I came up here in '89. The target changes, take your pick of the three options I quoted, but the hostile reaction towards their own remains consistent. It's bizarrely self destructive.
		
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I was there in around 98, Bobby Robsons first game, they beat us (Sheff Wed) 8-0. Place was like a morgue. Like LT says, it's an absolute myth that the atmosphere there is bouncing, maybe they're getting confused with the Bigg Market


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 24, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I was there in around 98, Bobby Robsons first game, they beat us (Sheff Wed) 8-0. Place was like a morgue. Like LT says, it's an absolute myth that the atmosphere there is bouncing, maybe they're getting confused with the Bigg Market 

Click to expand...

You are showing your age now. Bigg Market bouncing? Back to the 80's 🤣

Saying that, it may have gone full circle and be buzzing again 😳. My days in the pubs in the Toon are long gone.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 25, 2021)

If Arsenal do not score against City they will have to select their goal of the month from their training sessions. 😳


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## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If Arsenal do not score against City they will have to select their goal of the month from their training sessions. 😳
		
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Or from their EFL Cup match against West Brom this evening.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2021)

Bild in Germany have reported what Haaland wanted for go to Chelsea ( well Raoila ) 

£825k a week 

£33mil to the agent 

£30mil to the player as a signing on fee 

😲😲 - just mental 

The sooner agents are restricted the better


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## GB72 (Aug 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Bild in Germany have reported what Haaland wanted for go to Chelsea ( well Raoila )

£825k a week

£33mil to the agent

£30mil to the player as a signing on fee

😲😲 - just mental

The sooner agents are restricted the better
		
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Personally would like to see a massive sorting of the transfer market as a whole (though will never happen). Imagine if there was a simple formula so, for example, the transfer fee was set at twice the wages left on the existing contract and so a player earning £15million a year with 2 years left would cost £60 million pounds. Add to that some provisos for each year that they have been in a clubs academy system up to the age of 21 to encourage player development and help support the lower league clubs and cap wages at £1 million pounds per week so as they money saved could not be extorted into players' pockets and transfer prices could not be inflated by ridiculous wages and you have, to my mind, a reasonable solution that would leave so much more money in the game and mean that clubs were not always gambling on their financial future. Could even have an impact on the leagues by reducing the gaps between the haves and have nots. On that basis, the fees being asked for Kane now would be reserved for the true elite players whilst a large number of players would be available for under £10 million. 

I know, total pipe dream and woud wipe a chunk of the value of current assests (and it still seems wrong to look at a human being as a financial assett) but something needs to be done. Almost overnigh the £100 million transfer fee has become a norm with no sign of stopping there.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 25, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If Arsenal do not score against City they will have to select their goal of the month from their training sessions. 😳
		
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Unconfirmed reports that Arsenal have made an offer for the Cardboard Cutout Antonio held up in the air on Monday night! 


(Apologies to gooners…the rarified atmosphere of top of the league has made me a bit lairey 😁)


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430498709054398471
Kane says he is staying - which basically means City won’t pay the fee required


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## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430498709054398471
Kane says he is staying - which basically means City won’t pay the fee required
		
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..which we knew already for several weeks. The tabloid rags will be absolutely gutted their dream transfer hasn't come off. I'm sure by December the rumour mill will be powered up again.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			..which we knew already for several weeks. The tabloid rags will be absolutely gutted their dream transfer hasn't come off. I'm sure by December the rumour mill will be powered up again.
		
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one hopes not.


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## GB72 (Aug 25, 2021)

Guess that is Kane stuck at Spurs as the market will all be about Haaland, Mbappe and Lewandowski next summer as well as the younger players who make an impression this year. Think he has missed the  boat unless he has an unbelievable year.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Bild in Germany have reported what Haaland wanted for go to Chelsea ( well Raoila )

£825k a week

£33mil to the agent

£30mil to the player as a signing on fee

😲😲 - just mental

The sooner agents are restricted the better
		
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## Pin-seeker (Aug 25, 2021)

Think I remember when Dortmund signed him they only got him if they agreed to the massive agent fee when he was sold.
That shouldn’t be allowed IMO,but no one forced them to agree to it.
Not sure about the £825k pw tho Phil 😂😂😂
Don’t believe everything you read 👍🏻


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## BiMGuy (Aug 25, 2021)

Can't understand why Man City would want Kane when Haaland is available, and could have had Messi on a free.


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## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Guess that is Kane stuck at Spurs as the market will all be about Haaland, Mbappe and Lewandowski next summer as well as the younger players who make an impression this year. Think he has missed the  boat unless he has an unbelievable year.
		
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I think it will be a different story with regards to the price we hold out for though. Right now he has three years remaining so the club were in a strong position. Once you get to two years remaining though that starts to weaken, as you don't want to let it get down to his last year as you're forced to take a really low offer then. And if the price comes down in a year's time that almost certainly brings Man Utd into the mix, maybe Chelsea if Levy ever considers selling to them.


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## Rlburnside (Aug 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430498709054398471
Kane says he is staying - which basically means City won’t pay the fee required
		
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No surprise there, don’t believe all you read and quote in the rags 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			No surprise there, don’t believe all you read and quote in the rags 👍
		
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Let’s be honest - he was desperate to leave  but no one will pay the fee so he is staying. If a club paid his fee he would have left in a flash.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Let’s be honest - he was desperate to leave  but no one will pay the fee so he is staying. If a club paid his fee he would have left in a flash.
		
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Would you have believed he didn’t want to leave if he’d just said he’d got a bad back? 
#Coutinho 😗😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Personally would like to see a massive sorting of the transfer market as a whole (though will never happen). Imagine if there was a simple formula so, for example, the transfer fee was set at twice the wages left on the existing contract and so a player earning £15million a year with 2 years left would cost £60 million pounds. Add to that some provisos for each year that they have been in a clubs academy system up to the age of 21 to encourage player development and help support the lower league clubs and cap wages at £1 million pounds per week so as they money saved could not be extorted into players' pockets and transfer prices could not be inflated by ridiculous wages and you have, to my mind, a reasonable solution that would leave so much more money in the game and mean that clubs were not always gambling on their financial future. Could even have an impact on the leagues by reducing the gaps between the haves and have nots. On that basis, the fees being asked for Kane now would be reserved for the true elite players whilst a large number of players would be available for under £10 million.

I know, total pipe dream and woud wipe a chunk of the value of current assests (and it still seems wrong to look at a human being as a financial assett) but something needs to be done. Almost overnigh the £100 million transfer fee has become a norm with no sign of stopping there.
		
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I don’t know what the answer is 

They are bringing in some different financial restrictions which are along the same lines as La Liga - wage bill can only be 70% max of income but I don’t know what impact that will have - guess clubs will need to be more aware of their wage bills


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## Rlburnside (Aug 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Let’s be honest - he was desperate to leave  but no one will pay the fee so he is staying. If a club paid his fee he would have left in a flash.
		
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That’s true Phil but you was still quoting the papers that he was going to leave for Man City 2 weeks ago when more informed sources knew that wasn’t the case. 👍


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## GB72 (Aug 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t know what the answer is

They are bringing in some different financial restrictions which are along the same lines as La Liga - wage bill can only be 70% max of income but I don’t know what impact that will have - guess clubs will need to be more aware of their wage bills
		
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It is not so much the wage bill, it is inflation in transfer fees that suits the top clubs with the big money backers as prospective challengers are priced out of the market. You do something to restrict those and you are more then half way to winning. Who needs agents etc when the fee is already in place as set by a formula. i know it is dream but you are going to reach a stage in the next few seasons where £100million is normal and £200million is on the cards. 

Would the clubs take a short term hit on their bottom line by the down valuing of current players in exchange for spending tens of millions of pounds less on players going forward Would the well financed clubs stand against that as it would, to some extent, level the playing field. All just ridiculous hypothetical thinking as football will ironically just like the old pools winners, spend spend spend until the money has all gone.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			That’s true Phil but you was still quoting the papers that he was going to leave for Man City 2 weeks ago when more informed sources knew that wasn’t the case. 👍
		
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The papers were saying that - he wanted to leave and to go to City and that all was needed was to get a fee agreed , along with the not turning up for training etc 

I suspect there will be a lot of positive PR to turn it around with everyone knowing Kane doesn’t want to be there - he wants to leave to win trophies , in one way Im glad that the club have stood up to city and the player. But if City throw in a big bid then Kane will go Imo


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## Rlburnside (Aug 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The papers were saying that - he wanted to leave and to go to City and that all was needed was to get a fee agreed , along with the not turning up for training etc 

I suspect there will be a lot of positive PR to turn it around with everyone knowing Kane doesn’t want to be there - he wants to leave to win trophies , in one way Im glad that the club have stood up to city and the player. But if City throw in a big bid then Kane will go Imo
		
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The papers were saying that, morale of the story don’t believe what the papers say😂

City did throw in a big bid was it not 100 million+ 

City we’re going to increase there offer but word came out that Levy wasn’t going to sell. 

But what I would agree with you is that I’m glad Levy held firm and didn’t sell him. 

I think from a business point of view this was the time to sell him his price will never be as high again imo. 

We might have a good season and win something and he might stay and go on to break Greaves goal scoring record. 

And I might get to single figures 😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			The papers were saying that, morale of the story don’t believe what the papers say😂

City did throw in a big bid was it not 100 million+

City we’re going to increase there offer but word came out that Levy wasn’t going to sell.

But what I would agree with you is that I’m glad Levy held firm and didn’t sell him.

I think from a business point of view this was the time to sell him his price will never be as high again imo.

We might have a good season and win something and he might stay and go on to break Greaves goal scoring record.

And I might get to single figures 😂
		
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So do you think they were wrong about him wanting to leave ? And missing training etc

If City upped their bid to £150mil do you think Levy would sell ? At the moment the club is using money from loans to buy players - that £150mil would go a long way to strengthening the team


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## Rlburnside (Aug 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So do you think they were wrong about him wanting to leave ? And missing training etc

If City upped their bid to £150mil do you think Levy would sell ? At the moment the club is using money from loans to buy players - that £150mil would go a long way to strengthening the team
		
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I think he did want to leave and if City offered that amount I think Levy would accept that.


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## IainP (Aug 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Or from their EFL Cup match against West Brom this evening.
		
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☝️☝️☝️


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## IanM (Aug 25, 2021)

IainP said:



			☝️☝️☝️
		
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West Brom youth X1


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## 3offTheTee (Aug 26, 2021)

Could go in Random Irritations but hearing Sky Sports News ramble on for around 2 months about Deadline Transfer Day with reporters all over UK.

The hype  as to whether Ronaldo will go to Workington Town! Unbelievable  Jeff!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 26, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Could go in Random Irritations but hearing Sky Sports News ramble on for around 2 months about Deadline Transfer Day with reporters all over UK.

*The hype  as to whether Ronaldo will go to Workington Town*! Unbelievable  Jeff!
		
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It's a straight fight between them and Barrow. Literally a straight fight I believe


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 26, 2021)

Rumours of Ronaldo agreeing personal terms with Man City. He won't be popular in the red half of Manchester if that move happens.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 26, 2021)

Rumours getting stronger of us signing zouma 

Yes please


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## Deleted member 3432 (Aug 26, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Could go in Random Irritations but hearing Sky Sports News ramble on for around 2 months about Deadline Transfer Day with reporters all over UK.

The hype  as to whether Ronaldo will go to Workington Town! Unbelievable  Jeff!
		
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I doubt Ronaldo would last 2 seconds in Rugby League even at the lower reaches of the game inhabited by Town 🤣


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## Fade and Die (Aug 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Rumours getting stronger of us signing zouma

Yes please
		
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Do we need an injury prone, clumsy scuffer type player on £120k a week? Not for me.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 26, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Do we need an injury prone, clumsy scuffer type player on £120k a week? Not for me.
		
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That's not that bad a history.........


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## Fade and Die (Aug 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 38160


That's not that bad a history.........
		
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Not as bad as I thought but still not a fan, maybe it’s  paying £125k a week for a CB it just seems wrong!


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## pauljames87 (Aug 26, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Not as bad as I thought but still not a fan, maybe it’s  paying £125k a week for a CB it just seems wrong!
		
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That's modern football. He is a top 6 player. Really class act. I've read Chelsea fans are gutted to lose him

Him next to ogbonna will really help us until diop is ready to step up

We don't have problems scoring goals ATM we have problems letting them in so a good solid cb is worth every penny 

Hopefully lingard next


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## Orikoru (Aug 26, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Do we need an injury prone, clumsy scuffer type player on £120k a week? Not for me.
		
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It's not like West Ham are averse to it, as I recall you had Kieron Dyer on 90 odd grand a week, and that was over a decade ago.


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## Orikoru (Aug 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			That's modern football. He is a top 6 player. Really class act. I've read Chelsea fans are gutted to lose him

Him next to ogbonna will really help us until diop is ready to step up
		
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I think that's overstating it slightly. I think he's a reasonably solid Premier League defender. That's all.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's not like West Ham are averse to it, as I recall you had Kieron Dyer on 90 odd grand a week, and that was over a decade ago. 

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Dyer, (who at the time was apparently West Ham's top earner) managed all of 30 games in 4 seasons. Wilshere's availability was far better. He made 16 appearances in 2 seasons!
Reading online that West Ham are Sweating over Zoumas medical. 🤭
West Ham medical staff….As they say in Springfield  *Hi, Doctor Nick*


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## pauljames87 (Aug 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It's not like West Ham are averse to it, as I recall you had Kieron Dyer on 90 odd grand a week, and that was over a decade ago. 

Click to expand...

Very unlucky with dyer. That leg break in his first month ruined him. I saw him the week after (at the time the west ham players used to use a gym in Romford whilst our training ground was being fixed) he was doing press ups with his cast on supporting his broken leg

Tried his best to keep fitness up. Always respected him for that


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 26, 2021)

We had Zouma at Everton for a season. We would love to have signed him but Chelsea wanted him back. He is a bit no frills but personally I like that. A good, solid PL defender that would do West Ham, and others, well. I'd have him again.


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## 3offTheTee (Aug 26, 2021)

Great gesture by Aston Villa. They donated their share, 45%, of the gate receipts against Barrow on Tuesday to Barrow AFC


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Very unlucky with dyer. That leg break in his first month ruined him. I saw him the week after (at the time the west ham players used to use a gym in Romford whilst our training ground was being fixed) he was doing press ups with his cast on supporting his broken leg

Tried his best to keep fitness up. Always respected him for that
		
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Dyer was injury prone throughout his career, not just at West Ham. He was one of those players. You don't really need a medical with the likes of him, Wilshere, Sturridge etc. They could pass it one day but will inevtiably be injured a few games later.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Dyer was injury prone throughout his career, not just at West Ham. He was one of those players. You don't really need a medical with the likes of him, Wilshere, Sturridge etc. They could pass it one day but will inevtiably be injured a few games later.
		
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Wilshire I can still understand the risk we took for Him. If fit he was an outstanding player, he had just had a season at Bournemouth where until a broken leg he was ever present ... Then played 38 games for arsenal (including Europa) so was a reasonable risk

Just never worked out


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## Tashyboy (Aug 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Rumours of Ronaldo agreeing personal terms with Man City. He won't be popular in the red half of Manchester if that move happens.
		
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I would contribute to a welcome to Manchester poster.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430918510612525058
Mendy has been charged with 4 counts of rape


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Rumours of Ronaldo agreeing personal terms with Man City. He won't be popular in the red half of Manchester if that move happens.
		
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Apparently terms haven’t been agreed because Ronaldo wants to match his wages he gets at Juve - £510k after tax.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 26, 2021)

Good draw for UTD.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 26, 2021)

Tricky looking Champions League draw for Liverpool...


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## Dando (Aug 26, 2021)

How can a midfielder win EUFA player of the year but not midfielder of the year?


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## BrianM (Aug 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430918510612525058
Mendy has been charged with 4 counts of rape
		
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Remanded in custody as well, very unusual for this alleged type of crime.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 26, 2021)

Dando said:



			How can a midfielder win EUFA player of the year but not midfielder of the year?
		
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🤷‍♂️Makes no sense


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Rumours of Ronaldo agreeing personal terms with Man City. He won't be popular in the red half of Manchester if that move happens.
		
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I can’t see it.
What does a ageing Ronaldo bring to that City side for such big wages.
Keep seeing rumours of Mbappe to Liverpool aswell,also can’t see it with their owners 😂


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## Orikoru (Aug 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Tricky looking Champions League draw for Liverpool...

View attachment 38161

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How do United consistently get the easiest groups year after year?? Unreal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Tricky looking Champions League draw for Liverpool...

View attachment 38161

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Should be a good group - certainly some great ties.

Utd get their standard group 😂

Group G 😂😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2021)




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## Pin-seeker (Aug 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 38164

Click to expand...

Aaaawww Phillip get over it,he’s staying.
are you just upset because Levy doesn’t cave so easy to bank some money from his players?


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 26, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Good draw for UTD.
		
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They been drawn in a Europa league group instead, this year, by the looks of it?

Our group has 15 EC/CL titles to it's name!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431002260302073862
England squad 

No Greenwood which is surprising


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## DaveR (Aug 26, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Aaaawww Phillip get over it,he’s staying.
are you just upset because Levy doesn’t cave so easy to bank some money from his players?
		
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I think he must have you on ignore. Still, 10 out of 10 for your perseverance in trying to get a bite 🙄


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 26, 2021)

DaveR said:



			I think he must have you on ignore. Still, 10 out of 10 for your perseverance in trying to get a bite 🙄
		
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God loves trier 😊


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 27, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



*God *loves trier 😊
		
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Which one? Globally there are around 3000 to choose from so you'll need to narrow it down a bit.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Which one? Globally there are around 3000 to choose from so you'll need to narrow it down a bit. 

Click to expand...

Liam Gallagher 🤷‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 27, 2021)

If city do get Ronaldo will he be contractually guaranteed to take, and miss, every free kick within 30yds of the goal? 😆

Come on city fans, do you actually want him? Would he not upset the ego balance in the squad, there currently doesn't seem to be one. Huge wages, huge individual ego, ageing player. Would you not become a circus?


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2021)

Can't see it happening. Never mind Ronaldo cheating on Man Utd, Pep would be cheating on Messi as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2021)

I wonder how much of Ronaldo wanting to move is more about his ego and arrogance and trying to ensure that people still see him as valid ?

He has seen Messi move and all the hype around that and now Mbappe looking to move and he thinks “don’t forget about me”

I still struggle to comprehend how football appears to be in this bubble with the finances from Covid 

Madrid going back with £180mil for Mbappe when he has a year left ?! And from a club that is in huge debt 

I thought the pandemic with many clubs taking loans and getting credit lines from the banks would scale bank the spending but it’s just got worse.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder how much of Ronaldo wanting to move is more about his ego and arrogance and trying to ensure that people still see him as valid ?

He has seen Messi move and all the hype around that and now Mbappe looking to move and he thinks “don’t forget about me”

I still struggle to comprehend how football appears to be in this bubble with the finances from Covid 

Madrid going back with £180mil for Mbappe when he has a year left ?! And from a club that is in huge debt 

I thought the pandemic with many clubs taking loans and getting credit lines from the banks would scale bank the spending but it’s just got worse.
		
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That’s the trouble with people that haven’t achieved much themselves they always look for the worse in people .
Even one of the greatest.
Why don’t you actually look for the good in someone.
Post something about his charity work maybe.


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## Dando (Aug 27, 2021)

Sky are calling this sunday "super sunday" rather than "mediocre, so do something else sunday"


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## Junior (Aug 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder how much of Ronaldo wanting to move is more about his ego and arrogance and trying to ensure that people still see him as valid ?

He has seen Messi move and all the hype around that and now Mbappe looking to move and he thinks “don’t forget about me”

I still struggle to comprehend how football appears to be in this bubble with the finances from Covid

Madrid going back with £180mil for Mbappe when he has a year left ?! And from a club that is in huge debt

I thought the pandemic with many clubs taking loans and getting credit lines from the banks would scale bank the spending but it’s just got worse.
		
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What makes you think he's egotistical and arrogant?   Sure, he's a bit of a poser and a model but most of us wouldn't be shy in taking off our shirts if we were as ripped as him.  The fancy photos don't tell the story though.

Having followed his career for obvs reasons, off the field he works harder than any to stay fit.  He is close to his childhood friends, he does lots of charity work and comes across quite humbling when interviewed.  Edited to add that he's never pictured falling out of nightclubs, doesn't drink, and imo is as professional as it gets for a footballer.    His success on the field to win is pretty unsurpassed in our generation.  No one has performed as well as he has in the Prem, La Liga and Seria A.   This is what elevates him above Messi imo.

If he wants a swan song in the Prem, even if it's with Citeh, then the league is better off for it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2021)

Junior said:



			What makes you think he's egotistical and arrogant?   Sure, he's a bit of a poser and a model but most of us wouldn't be shy in taking off our shirts if we were as ripped as him.  The fancy photos don't tell the story though.

Having followed his career for obvs reasons, off the field he works harder than any to stay fit.  He is close to his childhood friends, he does lots of charity work and comes across quite humbling when interviewed.  Edited to add that he's never pictured falling out of nightclubs, doesn't drink, and imo is as professional as it gets for a footballer.    His success on the field to win is pretty unsurpassed in our generation.  No one has performed as well as he has in the Prem, La Liga and Seria A.   This is what elevates him above Messi imo.

If he wants a swan song in the Prem, even if it's with Citeh, then the league is better off for it.
		
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We are just talking as a footballer

https://www.fotmob.com/news/1nlnodk...onaldo's-ego-is-his-biggest-motivator-valdano

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/foo...ant-selfish---and-indisputably-great-1017552/

When you declare yourself the best player in history that ventures from confidence to arrogance imo 

Off the field and his professionalism isn’t in doubt - that’s doesn’t stop him being arrogant and having an ego as a player - as some have said it’s part of what makes him better as a player 

But he wants to be seen above Messi and any other player - he sees Messi going to PSG and he doesn’t want to be hidden away 

it’s not always a bad thing - even more so when he backs it up - but I have no doubt that right now he is not happy that his move to Juventus hasn’t given him another string to his bow by winning the CL with another club - so going to City will be about him backing up his belief that he is the greatest ever. 

I think going to City could cause issues with Pep and the mentality he has there and with the players - it’s all about the team there , no big egos standing out - no main men - not sure that suits Ronaldo or City.


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2021)

Junior said:



			What makes you think he's egotistical and arrogant?   Sure, he's a bit of a poser and a model but most of us wouldn't be shy in taking off our shirts if we were as ripped as him.  The fancy photos don't tell the story though.

Having followed his career for obvs reasons, off the field he works harder than any to stay fit.  He is close to his childhood friends, he does lots of charity work and comes across quite humbling when interviewed.  Edited to add that he's never pictured falling out of nightclubs, doesn't drink, and imo is as professional as it gets for a footballer.    His success on the field to win is pretty unsurpassed in our generation.  No one has performed as well as he has in the Prem, La Liga and Seria A.   This is what elevates him above Messi imo.

If he wants a swan song in the Prem, even if it's with Citeh, then the league is better off for it.
		
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100% agreed. He's the best of all time for me, and he can do what he wants for his last few years in the game. I highly doubt he's that bothered about Messi moving to PSG, Italy is still a bigger league than France, and Juve is historically a bigger club than PSG - and currently I'd say, seeing as PSG haven't won the Champs League yet. They had a blip last season in not winning the league for once, but then so did PSG.


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## Piece (Aug 27, 2021)

This Ronaldo thing, for me, is simply because Ronaldo wants to play at the very top whilst he still can. Juve haven’t got past the quarter finals in the CL and were way off the Serie A title. They are now second tier at European level. PSG are on the up and even more so with Messi, Ramos and Donnarumma now in situ. Ron feels now is the time to exit and have maybe one last stab at a top club. Realistically the clubs in with the best chance of a CL win are Man C, Chelsea, Bayern, PSG. IMO.

Perhaps Utd should come in at the last minute?


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## azazel (Aug 27, 2021)

Piece said:



			This Ronaldo thing, for me, is simply because Ronaldo wants to play at the very top whilst he still can. Juve haven’t got past the quarter finals in the CL and were way off the Serie A title. They are now second tier at European level. PSG are on the up and even more so with Messi, Ramos and Donnarumma now in situ. Ron feels now is the time to exit and have maybe one last stab at a top club. Realistically the clubs in with the best chance of a CL win are Man C, Chelsea, Bayern, PSG. IMO.

Perhaps Utd should come in at the last minute?
		
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Looks like Utd have!


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## pendodave (Aug 27, 2021)

I know it's not a thing, so don't @me...
But I really wouldn't want Ronaldo at our place (WHU). I've seen him play in the flesh in Madrid, and I can barely recall watching a player who contributes so little for 88 minutes a game. 
The modern prem is (mostly) a dynamic 11 man game. I think he'd be an albatross around any teams' neck. 
I'm not sure which of the north west clubs I'd most like to see him at...


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## Billysboots (Aug 27, 2021)

azazel said:



			Looks like Utd have!
		
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I’m not quite sure how I feel about this if it happens.

Don’t get me wrong, Ronaldo is a United legend. I was at Old Trafford when he came off the bench for his debut, saw the ludicrous talent he had even then, and joined the faithful in my frustration at his tendency to hit the deck at the slightest touch. I then watched over the next few years as he matured into without a doubt the best player I have had the privilege of watching first hand, enjoying some massive European nights at Old Trafford when he rose to the occasion, time and again.

But those days are long gone. I’m not for one moment doubting the fact Ronaldo is a 36 year old in a 28 year old’s body but, if he rejoined the club, he won’t be coming to sit on the bench. So where does that leave the likes of Mason Greenwood? A signing like this flies in the face of everything Solskjaer is trying to achieve by predominately investing in young talent, especially considering the fact that Greenwood and his ilk will still be developing players when Ronaldo sails into the sunset in a year or so.

Genuine mixed feelings here. But, on balance, the nostalgic me would perhaps enjoy the swansong!


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## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2021)

pendodave said:



			I know it's not a thing, so don't @me...
But I really wouldn't want Ronaldo at our place (WHU). I've seen him play in the flesh in Madrid, and I can barely recall watching a player who contributes so little for 88 minutes a game.
The modern prem is (mostly) a dynamic 11 man game. I think he'd be an albatross around any teams' neck.
I'm not sure which of the north west clubs I'd most like to see him at...
		
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I've seen both him and Messi in the flesh play and I've always preferred watching Messi ..

Not to say I wouldnt want Ronaldo with us ofc! I understand what you mean but at say city he would bang in the goals but at a team where he has to do all the work again he might be that bit too old


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## pendodave (Aug 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I've seen both him and Messi in the flesh play and I've always preferred watching Messi ..

Not to say I wouldnt want Ronaldo with us ofc! I understand what you mean but at say city he would bang in the goals but at a team where he has to do all the work again he might be that bit too old
		
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Not a regular city watcher, but I get the impression that they work hard to press from the front. He just doesn't do this, and a half arsed press is just a choco teapot.


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## Piece (Aug 27, 2021)

azazel said:



			Looks like Utd have!
		
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Not surprised but surprised. Not surprised as i think it’s a good fit and he should feel welcomed. Surprised in that he could jump from one second tier club to other (currently!).


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 27, 2021)

There will be a lot of Man Utd fans deleting their tweets from yesterday when it looked like he was going to City.


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## Kellfire (Aug 27, 2021)

I’ll genuinely be buzzing if he returns. I don’t care what the logistics are, sometimes you just have to let the event take you.


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2021)

pendodave said:



			I know it's not a thing, so don't @me...
But I really wouldn't want Ronaldo at our place (WHU). I've seen him play in the flesh in Madrid, and I can barely recall watching a player who *contributes so little* for 88 minutes a game.
The modern prem is (mostly) a dynamic 11 man game. I think he'd be an albatross around any teams' neck.
I'm not sure which of the north west clubs I'd most like to see him at...
		
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It's ok, I've provided a handy diagram to show what he does contribute...


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## pokerjoke (Aug 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			There will be a lot of Man Utd fans deleting their tweets from yesterday when it looked like he was going to City.
		
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Anyone Utd supporter who thought he would go to City is deluded.
He has so much respect for Utd and Sir Alex he would just never have done it.
If the rumours are correct and he signs it’s a game changer.


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## Billysboots (Aug 27, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Anyone Utd supporter who thought he would go to City is deluded.
He has so much respect for Utd and Sir Alex he would just never have done it.
If the rumours are correct and he signs it’s a game changer.
		
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I don’t think you can ever rule anything out in the crazy world of football but, given the United legacy, a move to City would have been very odd.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 27, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Anyone Utd supporter who thought he would go to City is deluded.
He has so much respect for Utd and Sir Alex he would just never have done it.
If the rumours are correct and he signs it’s a game changer.
		
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I don’t watch Italian football so not sure how good he looked last season,but when he was linked with City I genuinely thought he’d have had a negative effect on them.


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## Piece (Aug 27, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I’ll genuinely be buzzing if he returns. I don’t care what the logistics are, sometimes you just have to let the event take you.
		
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Me too. Great have him back in the Premier League. My two boys will be buzzing to go and see him live.


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## Billysboots (Aug 27, 2021)

Piece said:



			Me too. Great have him back in the Premier League. My two boys will be buzzing to go and see him live.
		
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I think getting tickets for United home games might be about to get a whole lot more difficult.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 27, 2021)

It is confirmed, Ronaldo signed for United.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 27, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			I don’t watch Italian football so not sure how good he looked last season,but when he was linked with City I genuinely thought he’d have had a negative effect on them.
		
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He won’t have a negative effect on Utd I believe he will give everyone a lift.
Certainly not the player of old but easily still top 3 in the premiership.

He imo would have improved City but don’t believe it was ever on.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It is confirmed, Ronaldo signed for United.
		
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Subject to personal terms and medical  ?


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## Piece (Aug 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It is confirmed, Ronaldo signed for United.
		
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Not quite. Transfer fee agreed. Still wages, medical and visa to go. Should be routine from now though. 👍


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2021)

If Ronaldo does sign, you have to laugh at the fact that he'll be managed by someone who used to watch him from the bench the first time he was there.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2021)

Fantasy football just took a massive twist!!

Surely though money wise (with his wages etc) it would have been cheaper to buy Kane?


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Surely though money wise (with his wages etc) it would have been cheaper to buy Kane?
		
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Not sure that's right. Even if they're paying him £500k a week that's £52 million over the two year contract. Would've cost three times that just for Kane's transfer fee without even considering wages.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 27, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			He won’t have a negative effect on Utd I believe he will give everyone a lift.
Certainly not the player of old but easily still top 3 in the premiership.

He imo would have improved City but don’t believe it was ever on.
		
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He’s the GOAT for me,will be interesting to see how he does in the prem now.
Imagine his first game at OT 🤯


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## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not sure that's right. Even if they're paying him £500k a week that's £52 million over the two year contract. Would've cost three times that just for Kane's transfer fee without even considering wages.
		
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Kane will last longer than Ronaldo tho .. altho Ronaldo is a class signing 

Wonder who will go for halland next year .. wonder if him being available cheap next year is what's stopping Kane moving as teams willing to wait for him to save cash for a younger olayer


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## larmen (Aug 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I've seen both him and Messi in the flesh play and I've always preferred watching Messi ..

Not to say I wouldnt want Ronaldo with us ofc! I understand what you mean but at say city he would bang in the goals but at a team where he has to do all the work again he might be that bit too old
		
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I think I like watching Messi, but if I had to pick a player to win I go with Ronald. He might be the best player I have seen on TV, and I have seen Maradonna. But he doesn’t come across as very likeable.

There was a program about the psychological value of his power stance pre set pieces. If I had his body I would do it on the tee ;-)


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## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2021)

larmen said:



			I think I like watching Messi, but if I had to pick a player to win I go with Ronald. He might be the best player I have seen on TV, and I have seen Maradonna. But he doesn’t come across as very likeable.

There was a program about the psychological value of his power stance pre set pieces. If I had his body I would do it on the tee ;-)
		
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Yet his set piece conversation rate (free kicks) is awful these days


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## Billysboots (Aug 27, 2021)

The reports I’ve read and rumours I’ve heard suggest considerably less than £500k a week. Considerably less.

Whatever, after eighteen months of Covid, no fans in grounds, lockdowns and so on, being a football fan just got exciting again. Especially for those of us acquainted with the Stretford End.

I’m not going to lie. This signing is the first in nearly fifty years as a United fan which has actually made me a little emotional because of all it means.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 27, 2021)

Rooney and Ronaldo were one of United's greatest pairings. Rooney is younger than Ronaldo. United have just agreed a deal to bring Ronaldo back, a guy who is a fit a 36 year old I've ever seen. Look at Rooney in comparison. The gulf between them is incredible.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The reports I’ve read and rumours I’ve heard suggest considerably less than £500k a week. Considerably less.

Whatever, after eighteen months of Covid, no fans in grounds, lockdowns and so on, being a football fan just got exciting again. Especially for those of us acquainted with the Stretford End.

I’m not going to lie. This signing is the first in nearly fifty years as a United fan which has actually made me a little emotional because of all it means.
		
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What about when we signed Fred?


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## Billysboots (Aug 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			What about when we signed Fred?
		
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I’ve been crying ever since he signed.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not sure that's right. Even if they're paying him £500k a week that's £52 million over the two year contract. Would've cost three times that just for Kane's transfer fee without even considering wages.
		
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What we don't know, same with Kane to be fair, is the extra costs that come with someone like Ronaldo. The signing on fee, the agents fee, the fee for his pet dog and so on. Did you see the numbers quoted for Haarland recently 😳, Ronaldo will have similar extras. The redeeming point with Ronaldo is probably in commercial terms they will get a greater return which balances the costs. Whatever, it's daft money and I wouldn't mind being £1 behind him 😆


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What we don't know, same with Kane to be fair, is the extra costs that come with someone like Ronaldo. The signing on fee, the agents fee, the fee for his pet dog and so on. Did you see the numbers quoted for Haarland recently 😳, Ronaldo will have similar extras. The redeeming point with Ronaldo is probably in commercial terms they will get a greater return which balances the costs. Whatever, it's daft money and I wouldn't mind being £1 behind him 😆
		
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i think he would take a small pay cut because of the tax rules but I expect he has become the highest paid player in the Prem - at the age of 36 - prob getting about £500k before tax and with loads of incentives

He will score them goals -but I’m not sure how much more stronger they have become with him as goals isn’t the issue. Certainly going to be interesting to see how he goes in the Prem second time round

Wonder how many take Fernandes out of their fantasy team now 😂

Going to be a few need to replace the shirt they burned over the last day 😂😂


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## Billysboots (Aug 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i think he would take a small pay cut because of the tax rules but I expect he has become the highest paid player in the Prem - at the age of 36 - prob getting about £500k before tax and with loads of incentives 

He will score them goals -but I’m not sure how much more stronger they have become with him as goals isn’t the issue. Certainly going to be interesting to see how he goes in the Prem second time round 

Going to be a few need to replace the shirt they burned over the last day 😂😂
		
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I’ve heard figures quoted from any number of sources now which all say half of the figure you suggest, Phil, tops.

£13m plus add-ons, and around £250k a week? Given what this signing brings to the club commercially alone, that sounds like good business to me.

And goals have been, and continue to be, an issue. I am not a slave to stats, but United’s conversion rate when looking at the number of goals scored per chance created must be average at best. The Southampton game was another in a long, long line of examples where we should have been out of sight before the hour mark.

Ronaldo has scored goals for fun wherever he has been, even against the stingy Italian defences. I’ll be very surprised if he doesn’t score goals this season.


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## Kellfire (Aug 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i think he would take a small pay cut because of the tax rules but I expect he has become the highest paid player in the Prem - at the age of 36 - prob getting about £500k before tax and with loads of incentives

He will score them goals -but I’m not sure how much more stronger they have become with him as goals isn’t the issue. Certainly going to be interesting to see how he goes in the Prem second time round

Wonder how many take Fernandes out of their fantasy team now 😂

Going to be a few need to replace the shirt they burned over the last day 😂😂
		
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Go on, Phil. Spin it as a negative for Man Utd fans. Good luck convincing anyone but yourself.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve heard figures quoted from any number of sources now which all say half of the figure you suggest, Phil, tops.

£13m plus add-ons, and around £250k a week? Given what this signing brings to the club commercially alone, that sounds like good business to me.

And goals have been, and continue to be, an issue. I am not a slave to stats, but United’s conversion rate when looking at the number of goals scored per chance created must be average at best. The Southampton game was another in a long, long line of examples where we should have been out of sight before the hour mark.

Ronaldo has scored goals for fun wherever he has been, even against the stingy Italian defences. I’ll be very surprised if he doesn’t score goals this season.
		
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Oh he is going to score goals - he is prob the best goalscorer seen , haven’t seen him play much since he went to Juve apart from the CL games and he was hit and miss then. I guess OGS will have him as the central forward 

In regards the wages - i guess the £250k is after tax  , I will be amazed if he has take such a big wage cut 

I wonder if the interest from City was real ? Seen a few say they walked away because of the money being asked and the agent then went to Man Utd 

Certainly going to be interesting times ahead for the club- don’t see him as the signing to give the club the next step to winning the big trophies.

As for the fans feelings - I remember when God came back to us and that first night , it was spine tingling , got to enjoy those times 






Kellfire said:



			Go on, Phil. Spin it as a negative for Man Utd fans. Good luck convincing anyone but yourself.
		
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Can you see how Billy responded to my post and the difference between how you responded. Do you do it on purpose ?


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## AmandaJR (Aug 27, 2021)

So relieved we didn't get him...phew!


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## 4LEX (Aug 27, 2021)

Wow, this is iconic. What a signing. He was a bad fit at Juve but he's everything Man Utd have been craving for years. A physical striker who can finish and head. The pace out wide, Bruno and Pogba supplying the passes/crosses it's going to be a great signing. He will take players to another level and give Man Utd the buzz and fear factor again. The difference Cavani made last season was clear, yet Ronaldo is fitter, stronger, faster and way more clinical.

Shirt sales and a trophy, he'll be worth every penny.

I've always rated Messi over Ronaldo but fair play to Ronaldo for coming back to the best league in the world at 36, instead of officially the 5th ranked leahue in Europe like Messi has done. A shame City didn't get Messi.


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## Slime (Aug 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As for the fans feelings - *I remember when God came back to us and that first night , it was spine tingling *, got to enjoy those times
		
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I wasn't aware that Zlatan ever played for Liverpool!


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## Baldy Bouncer (Aug 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			I wasn't aware that Zlatan ever played for Liverpool!
		
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No, he was 'Zlatan', Fowler was/still is 'God'


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			I wasn't aware that Zlatan ever played for Liverpool!
		
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I said God - not Zlatan 🤷‍♂️😀


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## MadAdey (Aug 27, 2021)

I give up, it was nice while it lasted being at the top of English football again. Liverpool have spent a total of 97.7m across the last 5 transfer windows going back to summer 2019. What are those yanks doing? They have just had an investement group called redbird buy into FSG for over 500m so they have money sat there. Why are they not making a big investment to take the 1st team forward. I appretiate that they have made investments in young players with an eye on the future, but why are they not spending? United have made a statement of intent this summer bringing in Verane, Sancho and Ronaldo, Liverpool have purchased a very promising young defender.


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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 27, 2021)

I must be the only one, but is Ronaldo really a good move for Utd? What does that say to the youngsters in the team including Sancho?
Since the refs are now letting lots go this season, I look forward for the Oscar level acting from the old man in red


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## Tashyboy (Aug 27, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			I give up, it was nice while it lasted being at the top of English football again. Liverpool have spent a total of 97.7m across the last 5 transfer windows going back to summer 2019. What are those yanks doing? They have just had an investement group called redbird buy into FSG for over 500m so they have money sat there. Why are they not making a big investment to take the 1st team forward. I appretiate that they have made investments in young players with an eye on the future, but why are they not spending? United have made a statement of intent this summer bringing in Verane, Sancho and Ronaldo, Liverpool have purchased a very promising young defender.
		
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as much as I agree with you surely you don’t want to buy trophies like City.😉


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## MadAdey (Aug 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			as much as I agree with you surely you don’t want to buy trophies like City.😉
		
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It's not so much about buying trophies, but making improvements to the first team. Liverpool are laking a certain spark in the midfield, someone who can take the game by the scruff of it's neck and win it.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 27, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			It's not so much about buying trophies, but making improvements to the first team. Liverpool are laking a certain spark in the midfield, someone who can take the game by the scruff of it's neck and win it.
		
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totally agree, but that said, what a mad time for transfers


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			I give up, it was nice while it lasted being at the top of English football again. Liverpool have spent a total of 97.7m across the last 5 transfer windows going back to summer 2019. What are those yanks doing? They have just had an investement group called redbird buy into FSG for over 500m so they have money sat there. Why are they not making a big investment to take the 1st team forward. I appretiate that they have made investments in young players with an eye on the future, but why are they not spending? United have made a statement of intent this summer bringing in Verane, Sancho and Ronaldo, Liverpool have purchased a very promising young defender.
		
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Since summer of 2019 we have won the title yet there seems to be more focus on what the spend is 🤷‍♂️ 

It’s going to be low because of the way the club operates but I don’t know why people go on about “5 transfer Windows” and x amount - those Windows allowed us to bring in the likes of Jota , Kostas , Thiago , Konate 

The “investment” was someone buying a share of FSG - there isn’t £500mil sat there waiting to be spent on players - any funds we get from that deal will be to help build up the stand and reduce the debt from the Covid period 

The club work to a self sustaining model - spends what it makes , the owners don’t spend their own money buying players so right now because of the pandemic they are being rightly so cautious with funds and will spend only on the right player


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I must be the only one, but is Ronaldo really a good move for Utd? What does that say to the youngsters in the team including Sancho?
Since the refs are now letting lots go this season, I look forward for the Oscar level acting from the old man in red

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He is going to score a lot of goals for them - the person who may miss out is Greenwood


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			It's not so much about buying trophies, but making improvements to the first team. Liverpool are laking a certain spark in the midfield, someone who can take the game by the scruff of it's neck and win it.
		
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Klopps tactics has always had the midfield more functional- it’s their to provide the platform and engine for the front three - that’s why he brought Thiago in and why he has moved Elliot there


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## 4LEX (Aug 27, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I must be the only one, but is Ronaldo really a good move for Utd? What does that say to the youngsters in the team including Sancho?
Since the refs are now letting lots go this season, I look forward for the Oscar level acting from the old man in red

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Sancho is a right winger who will play there mostly, occasionally on the left. Ronaldo is a striker/targetman. Do you not think Sancho will be buzzing to train, learn from and play with one of the best players of the last 100 years?


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 27, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I must be the only one, but is Ronaldo really a good move for Utd? What does that say to the youngsters in the team including Sancho?
		
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I would hope that it says to Sancho, and all of the other young players at Utd, that is what I need to do to have a top level career for 20 years. I need to show the same level of commitment as he has shown to stay at the top of the game for that long, whether that's working on skills on the training pitch or working on fitness in the gym. One thing that you can't doubt about Ronaldo is how hard he's worked to be as good as he is. As a 19 or 20 year old on 100k a week it would be easy to coast along but if they look at Ronaldo's work ethic it might give them the push they need to become even better.


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## MadAdey (Aug 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Since summer of 2019 we have won the title yet there seems to be more focus on what the spend is 🤷‍♂️

It’s going to be low because of the way the club operates but I don’t know why people go on about “5 transfer Windows” and x amount - those Windows allowed us to bring in the likes of Jota , Kostas , Thiago , Konate

The “investment” was someone buying a share of FSG - there isn’t £500mil sat there waiting to be spent on players - any funds we get from that deal will be to help build up the stand and reduce the debt from the Covid period

The club work to a self sustaining model - spends what it makes , the owners don’t spend their own money buying players so right now because of the pandemic they are being rightly so cautious with funds and will spend only on the right player
		
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Do you not find it frustrating though? They have got Liverpool back at the top again, but are now not willing to bring in players to keep them there. We spent years in the shadows of United and finally got ahead of them again. But now I am starting to look at the 2 squads and think that isn't the case again. FSG is one of the richest sports conglomerates in the world, you telling me if they really wanted to they could not find the money to try and get someone like MBappe. United posted loses worth nearly 3 times what LIverpool did during Covid and their owners are not worth what LIverpools owners are.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 27, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			Do you not find it frustrating though? They have got Liverpool back at the top again, but are now not willing to bring in players to keep them there. We spent years in the shadows of United and finally got ahead of them again. But now I am starting to look at the 2 squads and think that isn't the case again. FSG is one of the richest sports conglomerates in the world, you telling me if they really wanted to they could not find the money to try and get someone like MBappe. United posted loses worth nearly 3 times what LIverpool did during Covid and their owners are not worth what LIverpools owners are.
		
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Seen lots of fans questing FSG.
For a team that’s recently won their domestic league & CL you do have to wonder why their owners don’t invest more.


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## Beezerk (Aug 27, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seen lots of fans questing FSG.
For a team that’s recently won their domestic league & CL you do have to wonder why their owners don’t invest more.
		
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Because they're just another Mike Ashley but in Armani suits.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 27, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Because they're just another Mike Ashley but in Armani suits.
		
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Furlough 🤷‍♂️


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## MadAdey (Aug 27, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seen lots of fans questing FSG.
For a team that’s recently won their domestic league & CL you do have to wonder why their owners don’t invest more.
		
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That is what is frustrating. You spend all those years trying to get LIverpool back to the top, then you do not invest once they get there. Makes absolutly no sense to me.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 27, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			That is what is frustrating. You spend all those years trying to get LIverpool back to the top, then you do not invest once they get there. Makes absolutly no sense to me.
		
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Seen a lot of fans on Twitter unhappy with it,especially the ones that go to the match & spend money.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			Do you not find it frustrating though? They have got Liverpool back at the top again, but are now not willing to bring in players to keep them there. We spent years in the shadows of United and finally got ahead of them again. But now I am starting to look at the 2 squads and think that isn't the case again. FSG is one of the richest sports conglomerates in the world, you telling me if they really wanted to they could not find the money to try and get someone like MBappe. United posted loses worth nearly 3 times what LIverpool did during Covid and their owners are not worth what LIverpools owners are.
		
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No I don’t find it frustrating

When they bought the club one of the main promises was that the club was run within its our means , it stood on its own two feet financially without the need for an owner to keep pumping money in to buy players - that was stated from the start that would not happen - I do find it frustrating when you see demands from people that the owners buy players as they believe that’s the only way to win - who has the richest owner.

I prefer the club to be run this way , it relies on great recruitment and great management- it’s shown to be successful and right now we have a team as good as anyone in Europe - need to have better luck with injury this season but we are going to challenge for the Title , I’m glad everyone is ignoring us

United have spent significantly more than us over the last 8/9 years and won no major trophies - they still have significant debt on the club and the signings made just get added to that

FSG maybe rich but it’s asset rich - they don’t have a pot of gold that’s going to be spent on football players - they own a number of sports teams and all run the same way.

Social media is full of people who expect to act like City owners or take out loans to buy players - it’s not going to happen , the owners have made some monumental mistakes during their time but people demanding they sell because they didn’t buy Mbappe or we have a low net spend or because we have one player who prob needs to leave is beyond pathetic- and that’s what’s seen all over social media. And it’s a consequence of the Prem attracting fans from mainly the middle east and China and then those fans expecting clubs to just spend money because they have seen City etc do it

It would be great if we could get back to the days of when people only knew about a transfer when it happened.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2021)

I find it very odd as a City fan reading fans of other clubs say for years “ oil money bought your trophies”. Now the same fans are asking for there clubs to spend money 🤔 to compete with City, Chelsea etc. Don’t get me wrong, my mantra has always been City have had to spend vast sums to get to the greedy top table. Others now have to do the same


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431299088818003972
😳😂😂😂😂


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## rudebhoy (Aug 28, 2021)

Not a Newcastle fan, but felt a bit sorry for Bruce - and the fans - last night when he was saying the only signings he can make are loans.

It's criminal the way Ashley runs that club.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 28, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Not a Newcastle fan, but felt a bit sorry for Bruce - and the fans - last night when he was saying the only signings he can make are loans.

It's criminal the way Ashley runs that club.
		
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A lot of clubs are having to do loans this year tho with covid 

Tbh cashley runs it better than the dildo brothers 

Least he has put his own money in over the years and when he has loaned the club money it's been zero percent loans rather than 7% interest then claim "oh we don't take a salary" nope just enough in interest ...cheers


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## rudebhoy (Aug 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			A lot of clubs are having to do loans this year tho with covid

Tbh cashley runs it better than the dildo brothers

Least he has put his own money in over the years and when he has loaned the club money it's been zero percent loans rather than 7% interest then claim "oh we don't take a salary" nope just enough in interest ...cheers
		
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It's the lack of ambition. His only goal is to keep them in the Prem in the hope of selling at a massive profit. He is quite happy to play the long game and wait until someone stumps up, sod the fans.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 28, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			It's the lack of ambition. His only goal is to keep them in the Prem in the hope of selling at a massive profit. He is quite happy to play the long game and wait until someone stumps up, sod the fans.
		
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Same tbh.. it's only Moyes who's pushed the club on.. the Dave's were happy seeing just stay up year on year 

All our signings are in the end level out. Payet money rolled over with the Arnie money spent on Haller for example 

The Haller money back rolled over to this summer to spend on zouma 

All of which comes from selling Upton park for like 80 million and renting a stadium instead 

Very creative accounting 

If it wasn't for Moyes coming in (who they palmed off for MP first time round) we wouldn't even be top 10


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## Fade and Die (Aug 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			A lot of clubs are having to do loans this year tho with covid

Tbh cashley runs it better than the dildo brothers

Least he has put his own money in over the years and when he has loaned the club money it's been zero percent loans rather than 7% interest then claim "oh we don't take a salary" nope just enough in interest ...cheers
		
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Re the Dildos I’m expecting the deal for Zouma to break down and Sully to say “we tried” 🤬

On a positive note CR7 going to Man.U must make the possibility of Lingard coming back to us higher….


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Not a Newcastle fan, but felt a bit sorry for Bruce - and the fans - last night when he was saying the only signings he can make are loans.

It's criminal the way Ashley runs that club.
		
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Ashley is just bidding his time waiting for the big buyout for the Saudis 

He will do the bare minimum to keep them in the Premier League waiting for them to be bought to give him huge profits


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## pauljames87 (Aug 28, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Re the Dildos I’m expecting the deal for Zouma to break down and Sully to say “we tried” 🤬

On a positive note CR7 going to Man.U must make the possibility of Lingard coming back to us higher…. 
View attachment 38191

Click to expand...

Hopefully push his price down a bit so we can nab him. Was class for us

I think zouma will come off. I don't think will break down 

That issue with said last year didn't change much .. just changed to a loan and we had to buy him anyways so still paid the cash 

I think he will sign for us by Tuesday


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Re the Dildos I’m expecting the deal for Zouma to break down and Sully to say “we tried” 🤬

On a positive note CR7 going to Man.U must make the possibility of Lingard coming back to us higher…. 
View attachment 38191

Click to expand...

I’m pretty staggered that Lingard wasn’t bought by your lot as soon as the window was open - unless the player thought he would get a chance again at UTD. He seemed to at the right place.


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## Slime (Aug 28, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I must be the only one, but *is Ronaldo really a good move for Utd? *What does that say to the youngsters in the team including Sancho?
		
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Their share value has risen by upwards of £200M since the announcement that CR7 was coming back!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2021)

Slime said:



			Their share value has risen by upwards of £200M since the announcement that CR7 was coming back!
		
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That will do well for the owners dividends when they take them out each year 😉


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## ger147 (Aug 28, 2021)

I see Arsenal are managing to keep their run going, deffo the most consistent team in the Premier League so far this year.


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## pendodave (Aug 28, 2021)

I'll never understand football. L'arse looked so good in that really competitive cup game in midweek. And now this.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2021)

Arsenal are shocking. They've never replaced the rocks and leaders at the back, like Adams, Keown, Winterburn and Dixon. For years now they've become a team without leaders, this may be the worst they've ever been in Premiership.

I just don't get Xhaka. Complete liability and not even that good. How he is vice captain is beyond me.


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## ger147 (Aug 28, 2021)

Arsenal's mum is currently writing a note and handing it in to the referee's room explaining that they can't come out for the 2nd half as they have a flute lesson to go to... 🙈🙈


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## Sats (Aug 28, 2021)

Not going to lie, I absolutely love watching Arsenal TV on YouTube after a loss


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## ger147 (Aug 28, 2021)

Not all bad news for the Arsenal, at least Xhaka should get a 3 game ban for his straight Red so that should help improve things a bit.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2021)

Another good win for Everton but disappointing to see Richarlison trying to claim penalty rights when our taker is DCL. Same happened last year, he missed. This year DCL and the captain stood firm, despite the lip on. I'm hoping this isn't a sign for agitating to get a muttered move to PSG.


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Another good win for Everton but disappointing to see Richarlison trying to claim penalty rights when our taker is DCL. Same happened last year, he missed. This year DCL and the captain stood firm, despite the lip on. I'm hoping this isn't a sign for agitating to get a muttered move to PSG.
		
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Should have let him take it so I might've got some fantasy points. 😠


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Should have let him take it so I might've got some fantasy points. 😠
		
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He'd have missed it and just made you even more unhappy 😄


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## pauljames87 (Aug 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He'd have missed it and just made you even more unhappy 😄
		
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We all know what happens if you take a pen off someone then miss it.. feed him to the wolves 🤣


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## BrianM (Aug 28, 2021)

Chelsea probably just edging it at the moment, decent game as well.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2021)

Popcorn time for the neutrals


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 28, 2021)

Why are both sets of players arguing with the ref while VAR are looking at the possible penalty. How is that possibly going to change anything?


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## Kellfire (Aug 28, 2021)

Sent off for an accidental handball feels harsh and a double punishment.


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## BrianM (Aug 28, 2021)

That’s never a penalty.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2021)

BrianM said:



			That’s never a penalty.
		
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What about sending off 🤔


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## Cherry13 (Aug 28, 2021)

BrianM said:



			That’s never a penalty.
		
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Lets be honest, it’s a pen.  Maybes double jeopardy is harsh, but it was a deliberate move with his arm.  The ref only looked at a slow motion/still of the incident. I don’t think that was right. Should have been in full speed.  Alonso lucky Robertson didn’t make more of the cheeky elbow in the fracas as well.


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2021)

Definitely a penalty as he's moved his arm towards the ball. Red card feels well harsh though since it hit his leg first. Penalty & yellow would have been appropriate I think. But the ref has gone letter of the law, keeping the ball out the net with your arm is a red.


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## BrianM (Aug 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			What about sending off 🤔
		
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It’s obviously a decision based on the handball, he doesn’t even know it’s hit his hand, if it’s deliberate it’s a penalty and sending off.


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## Piece (Aug 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Definitely a penalty as he's moved his arm towards the ball. Red card feels well harsh though since it hit his leg first. Penalty & yellow would have been appropriate I think. But the ref has gone letter of the law, keeping the ball out the net with your arm is a red.
		
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Yup.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 28, 2021)

Well well well...

Reds started well, Chelsea had by far the better of the chances. Def a pen and always a red after the pen decision. All to play for 2nd half and we absolutely have to up the tempo. They're well drilled and if any team in the league can play *as *well down to 10, then it's Tuchel's Chelsea. Lucky to go in even, for me.

edit to add: Far be it from me to disagree with Jimmy Floyd hasselbaink on goalscoring, but Havertz definitely meant that, for me. And it's a truly brilliant header and goal. He's a wonderful player, love watching him.


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## adam6177 (Aug 28, 2021)

Clear penalty and clear sending off. Ref made the correct decision.


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## davemc1 (Aug 28, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Sent off for an accidental handball feels harsh and a double punishment.
		
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This aged well 😉


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Definitely a penalty as he's moved his arm towards the ball. Red card feels well harsh though since it hit his leg first. Penalty & yellow would have been appropriate I think. But the ref has gone letter of the law, keeping the ball out the net with your arm is a red.
		
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Does the ref have any discretion there to not give a red card? Or is it a case that once he's given the penalty it has to be a red as well?


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## Kellfire (Aug 28, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			This aged well 😉
		
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Eh?


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## Piece (Aug 28, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does the ref have any discretion there to not give a red card? Or is it a case that once he's given the penalty it has to be a red as well?
		
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Denying a goal or goal scoring opportunity by handball is a red. Law 12


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does the ref have any discretion there to not give a red card? Or is it a case that once he's given the penalty it has to be a red as well?
		
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I think as you say, the laws say red so that's what he's done. But the ref can do as he likes really. People often call for "common sense", which when boiled down usually means being lenient on one of the laws and not applying it by the letter.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 28, 2021)

Piece said:



			Denying a goal or goal scoring opportunity by handball is a red. Law 12
		
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Didn't know if the fact it bounced up off his thigh affected anything or whether they were seen as two separate actions, the ball hitting his thigh as the first action and then the arm coming through and hitting the ball as a separate action.


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Didn't know if the fact it bounced up off his thigh affected anything or whether they were seen as two separate actions, the ball hitting his thigh as the first action and then the arm coming through and hitting the ball as a separate action.
		
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If you slow it right down, I think having hit his thigh it was still travelling towards the goal, which is why he instinctively threw his arm forward.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think as you say, the laws say red so that's what he's done. But the ref can do as he likes really. People often call for "common sense", which when boiled down usually means being lenient on one of the laws and not applying it by the letter.
		
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He can't do as he likes if he wants another game next week or the week after. Refs get assessed to pieces and just ignoring a clear decision would see him in trouble internally. On some decisions there is discretion but not something like this.


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## Dando (Aug 28, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Sent off for an accidental handball feels harsh and a double punishment.
		
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Accidental? He swatted the ball away


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## hairball_89 (Aug 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Well well well...

... we absolutely have to up the tempo. They're well drilled and if any team in the league can play *as *well down to 10, then it's Tuchel's Chelsea. Lucky to go in even, for me.
		
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Well I called it. We didn't move the ball quick enough and didn't have enough width. Everything was in front of their back 5 and relatively easy for them to deal with. 

I'd have taken a draw at kick off, this Chelsea team is fantastic. But can't help but feel we should have done better.


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## Cherry13 (Aug 28, 2021)

In other news, some rumours that Steve Bruce didn’t even go in the changing room at half time.  Crazy if true.  Is he just handing over the reigns to Jones??
This after he barely spoke to the players before the shootout.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 28, 2021)

100% a penalty and a sending off for me.
This game showed a lot for me also.
Lukaku will bully weak defenders but disappeared today especially 2nd half.
Mount is pure quality.
Liverpool won’t be in the top 3
AA is never a right back
Matip is not good enough for Liverpool.
Klopp has no confidence in his subs,he needed to change things and didn’t.
Chelsea will be contenders


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## hairball_89 (Aug 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			...
Liverpool won’t be in the top 3
AA is never a right back
Matip is not good enough for Liverpool.
Klopp has no confidence in his subs,he needed to change things and didn’t.
...
		
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I'm sorry, what?! All of that is absolute nonsense.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			I'm sorry, what?! All of that is absolute nonsense.
		
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And your counter argument is?


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## hairball_89 (Aug 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			And your counter argument is?
		
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Trent is one heck of a right back. Best in his position. Personally, I'd have liked him to play wider today. But he was clearly told to come inside with Salah and Elliott. 

Matip is superb. You don't start for Liverpool in CL finals if you're not. You also don't keep Gomez out of the team if you're not. What did he do wrong today?

Subs? Klopp always uses his subs late on. Has done all the time he's been here. I don't really like it - I wanted Thiago on at HT. We also had to make a sub in the first half. That always delays subs in case of further injuries. To say he doesn't like the bench is hilarious.


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## Hobbit (Aug 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			100% a penalty and a sending off for me.
This game showed a lot for me also.
Lukaku will bully weak defenders but disappeared today especially 2nd half.
Mount is pure quality.
Liverpool won’t be in the top 3
AA is never a right back
Matip is not good enough for Liverpool.
Klopp has no confidence in his subs,he needed to change things and didn’t.
Chelsea will be contenders
		
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Definitely a pen and, under the interpretation of the current rules, a sending off.
Lukaku should bully defenders, its his job. He lacked support once Chelsea went to 10 men.
Mount is class.
Liverpool will be 3rd, behind City and Chelsea.
AA is class in the role and style asked of him.
Matip is average. Good enough but wońt set the world on fire.
Klopp plays Klopp´s way. It works. 2nd best manager behind Pep.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Trent is one heck of a right back. Best in his position. Personally, I'd have liked him to play wider today. But he was clearly told to come inside with Salah and Elliott. 

Matip is superb. You don't start for Liverpool in CL finals if you're not. You also don't keep Gomez out of the team if you're not. What did he do wrong today?

Subs? Klopp always uses his subs late on. Has done all the time he's been here. I don't really like it - I wanted Thiago on at HT. We also had to make a sub in the first half. That always delays subs in case of further injuries. To say he doesn't like the bench is hilarious.
		
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AA best in his position now that’s funny.
Gets caught up field way too often,if Chelsea’s final ball in the first half hour was better it could have been 3.0.
Now some say Klopp wants him to play that way,well that says something about Klopps nievity.
Bielsa is the same,so attack minded buts forgets defense,class teams attack these spaces.

Matip is better than Gomez and imo Gomez is definitely not good enough.
Matip is better but IMO not good enough,it’s my opinion.

As someone said Liverpool were easy to defend against because it was all in front of them,you needed width down the right against Alonso and the Ox was available.
Even the commentary was saying they needed width.
Not in the top 3 for me,maybe even 5th


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2021)

AA is a decent crosser of the ball. That is about his only talent. I've never watched him and thought he is a good defender. I doubt any left wingers ever fear coming up against him.


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## Cherry13 (Aug 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Matip is superb. You don't start for Liverpool in CL finals if you're not.
		
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Djimi Traore?? 

I think Matip is ok, obviously better alongside VVD (who wouldn’t be) but superb isn’t a word I’d use to describe him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Trent is one heck of a right back. Best in his position. Personally, I'd have liked him to play wider today. But he was clearly told to come inside with Salah and Elliott.

Matip is superb. You don't start for Liverpool in CL finals if you're not. You also don't keep Gomez out of the team if you're not. What did he do wrong today?

Subs? Klopp always uses his subs late on. Has done all the time he's been here. I don't really like it - I wanted Thiago on at HT. We also had to make a sub in the first half. That always delays subs in case of further injuries. To say he doesn't like the bench is hilarious.
		
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Amazing how players that helped Liverpool walk the league suddenly become not that good 

Matip is quality , shame about his injury issues

TAA is just world class

it was two points dropped today - wasn’t very fluid for long enough.

VVD is easing himself in and was excellent as was Elliot , Fabinho and Matip

Good game - was a penalty and whilst the red was harsh I guess it’s correct


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## Billysboots (Aug 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Trent is one heck of a right back. Best in his position.
		
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I’m sure I’m not alone when I say I disagree. He is a great wing back, because of what he brings Liverpool in an attacking sense, but best in his position as a right back? A good number of my Liverpool supporting mates say he is nowhere near as good defensively as other right backs.

He needs to be on the right of a back five, not four.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m sure I’m not alone when I say I disagree. He is a great wing back, because of what he brings Liverpool in an attacking sense, but best in his position as a right back? A good number of my Liverpool supporting mates say he is nowhere near as good defensively as other right backs.

He needs to be on the right of a back five, not four.
		
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I believe the defensive stats showed him to be above all the other England right backs 

he is a solid defender as well - not many get passed him and his positioning has improved a lot of the last couple of seasons  - tonight if anything he wasnt great on the ball


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## pokerjoke (Aug 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Amazing how players that helped Liverpool walk the league suddenly become not that good 

Matip is quality , shame about his injury issues

TAA is just world class

it was two points dropped today - wasn’t very fluid for long enough.

VVD is easing himself in and was excellent as was Elliot , Fabinho and Matip

Good game - was a penalty and whilst the red was harsh I guess it’s correct
		
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You walked the league because it was the weakest PL ever.

AA world class? at what?
Crossing the ball yes
Nowhere near as a right back,if he could defend and get forward he would be very good.
If he was world class he would have made the Euros squad easy,even Gareth sees he not an out and out quality RB


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## pokerjoke (Aug 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe the defensive stats showed him to be above all the other England right backs 

he is a solid defender as well - not many get passed him and his positioning has improved a lot of the last couple of seasons  - tonight if anything he wasnt great on the ball
		
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Take your blinkers off Phil your watching a totally different game.
His positioning is nowhere near good enough on numerous occasions.


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## 4LEX (Aug 28, 2021)

I'd be worried if I was a Liverpool fan judging on today. Chelsea dominated the first half and should've been 2-3 up. Freak handball, red card, penalty and game changed. The second half looked like Liverpool of last season. Neat, tidy but slow and resorting to slinging in crosses with no target. Nothing of note on the bench to change things or improve the attack.

That side doesn't finish Top 3 unless a signing or two comes in. The owners invested in the side, got the results, trophies and are now happy to run it on a budget. Even Arsenal have spent more in the last few years.

Some silly comments on individual players though. Of course TAA is world class. Reece James looks a better mix of defensive class and attacking quality though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I'd be worried if I was a Liverpool fan judging on today. Chelsea dominated the first half and should've been 2-3 up. Freak handball, red card, penalty and game changed. The second half looked like Liverpool of last season. Neat, tidy but slow and resorting to slinging in crosses with no target. Nothing of note on the bench to change things or improve the attack.

That side doesn't finish Top 3 unless a signing or two comes in. The owners invested in the side, got the results, trophies and are now happy to run it on a budget. Even Arsenal have spent more in the last few years.

Some silly comments on individual players though. Of course TAA is world class. Reece James looks a better mix of defensive class and attacking quality though.
		
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Whilst Chelsea prob shaded the first half a touch there is no chance they should have been 3 up - not sure how often Alisson was stretched to make too many saves.

So far City have dropped points , Utd dropped points , now Liverpool and Chelsea have dropped points - long way to go yet 

The owners are doing the same as they always have done - nothing has changed , the club spends the money it makes and it’s not always about the money that’s spent - UTD over the last 9 years since a Taggert left are proof of that


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## pokerjoke (Aug 28, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I'd be worried if I was a Liverpool fan judging on today. Chelsea dominated the first half and should've been 2-3 up. Freak handball, red card, penalty and game changed. The second half looked like Liverpool of last season. Neat, tidy but slow and resorting to slinging in crosses with no target. Nothing of note on the bench to change things or improve the attack.

That side doesn't finish Top 3 unless a signing or two comes in. The owners invested in the side, got the results, trophies and are now happy to run it on a budget. Even Arsenal have spent more in the last few years.

Some silly comments on individual players though. Of course TAA is world class. Reece James looks a better mix of defensive class and attacking quality though.
		
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Certainly agree with your first statement.

AA is a right back that is his position.
He’s not a world class RB
Great going forward,great crosser,takes a wicked set play.
But world class at his main position?  not for me.
Certainly not a silly comment.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whilst Chelsea prob shaded the first half a touch there is no chance they should have been 3 up - not sure how often Alisson was stretched to make too many saves. 

So far City have dropped points , Utd dropped points , now Liverpool and Chelsea have dropped points 

The owners are doing the same as they always have done - nothing has changed , the club spends the money it makes and it’s not always about the money that’s spent - UTD over the last 9 years since a Taggert left are proof of that
		
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Back to calling Sir Alex names again 
So childish


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## hairball_89 (Aug 28, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I'd be worried if I was a Liverpool fan judging on today. Chelsea dominated the first half and should've been 2-3 up. Freak handball, red card, penalty and game changed. The second half looked like Liverpool of last season. Neat, tidy but slow and resorting to slinging in crosses with no target. Nothing of note on the bench to change things or improve the attack.

That side doesn't finish Top 3 unless a signing or two comes in. The owners invested in the side, got the results, trophies and are now happy to run it on a budget. Even Arsenal have spent more in the last few years.

Some silly comments on individual players though. Of course TAA is world class. Reece James looks a better mix of defensive class and attacking quality though.
		
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Absolutely not worried at all. This Chelsea team are brilliant. Between us, them, City and United (if all their signings gel, and it looks positive for them on that front) it's going to be a heck of a league. I'm more than happy with the owners filling the gaping hole that was centre back last year and tying down players who are in the top 3-5 in their position in world football - Allison, Fabinho, Robertson, Trent, Van Dijk - to longer contracts. 

Bringing players in this season was always going to be difficult with the likes of Shaqiri (now gone to Lyon) and Origi on massive wages, comparable to what they'd get elsewhere, and no space for non-homegrown players. It's very easy to say "they need to bring someone in", but while I'd agree in that I'd *like* another forward and a player like Bissouma from Brighton (if not actually him!) there's currently no room in the squad. And it's bloody hard to sell players on big wages, as United, Arsenal, Chelsea etc have all shown. 

You said nothing of note on the bench, but I'd say Kelleher, Konate, Gomez, Tsimikas, Ox, Keita, Thiago, Minamino, Jota is the strongest bench we've had in years. Clearly Thiago is a wonderful footballer. He's been one of the best midfielders in the game for the best part of a decade. Jota has been brilliant for us, and were it not for the Bobby injury in the first half I'm sure we'd have been playing with "all four" up top for a chunk of the 2nd half. Ox, Keita, Gomez - all in the same boat for me, that is they need games. Keita started the season brilliantly, but Fabinho was always gonna come back in today. 

So yea, not worried. Will we win the league? No idea. Can we? I absolutely think we can. Yes. But so can a number of other clubs.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Absolutely not worried at all. This Chelsea team are brilliant. Between us, them, City and United (if all their signings gel, and it looks positive for them on that front) it's going to be a heck of a league. *I'm more than happy with the owners filling the gaping hole that was centre back last year* and tying down players who are in the top 3-5 in their position in world football - Allison, Fabinho, Robertson, Trent, Van Dijk - to longer contracts.
		
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Just to pick up on that one point, wasn't the gaping hole at centre back only due to being incredibly unlucky with injuries to players in that one position? With all your centre backs fit and playing was that really a problem position or could the money have been better spent on strengthening other areas of the team? Any club would have struggled last season if they had lost their best 4 centre backs out injured all at the same time, whether that was Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool or any other team.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 28, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just to pick up on that one point, wasn't the gaping hole at centre back only due to being incredibly unlucky with injuries to players in that one position? With all your centre backs fit and playing was that really a problem position or could the money have been better spent on strengthening other areas of the team? Any club would have struggled last season if they had lost their best 4 centre backs out injured all at the same time, whether that was Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool or any other team.
		
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Yes. 3 centre backs was a risk. I said myself that I'd take 3 centre backs, with Fabinho filling in if he needed to if that meant Thiago came in and we got cover at left back, which we did in Tsimikas. Clearly, that didn't work out like any Liverpool fan wanted and with it went the whole way the team sets up. But getting in a 4th centre back was definitely a priority this summer. I can't think of another team who have gone into a season with so few. What I've seen of Konate, he looks great. He looked brilliant in pre-season... but then everyone does!


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Yes. 3 centre backs was a risk. I said myself that I'd take 3 centre backs, with Fabinho filling in if he needed to if that meant Thiago came in and we got cover at left back, which we did in Tsimikas. Clearly, that didn't work out like any Liverpool fan wanted and with it went the whole way the team sets up. But getting in a 4th centre back was definitely a priority this summer. I can't think of another team who have gone into a season with so few. What I've seen of Konate, he looks great. He looked brilliant in pre-season... but then everyone does!
		
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I wasn't doubting Konate as a player, more as to whether he was what you most needed or whether there were other areas that were more important to be strengthened. The question was more whether you could've gone with 3 centre backs + Fabinho if needed and Neco Williams/Nat Phillips as a back up and spent the money elsewhere in the team.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 28, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I wasn't doubting Konate as a player, more as to whether he was what you most needed or whether there were other areas that were more important to be strengthened. The question was more whether you could've gone with 3 centre backs + Fabinho if needed and Neco Williams/Nat Phillips as a back up and spent the money elsewhere in the team.
		
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Well, yes. We could have. But I think they were always going to buy one, because nobody really knew how Van Dijk and Gomez were going to come back from their injuries. Matip's was a little different, but not buying and then Van Dijk (especially) not being ready for the season would have been awful planning. 

As I said in my longer post, I'd *like *a forward. I like the look of Minamino, but I don't think he's quite got it. Someone else in the mould of Jota, who absolutely hit the ground running, can play across the front 3 and longer term challenge them. But I have no idea who that is. Overall, I'm super happy with the balance of the squad, yes you can pick holes if you try hard enough but in the grand scheme of things we're in a bloody good position.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I wasn't doubting Konate as a player, more as to whether he was what you most needed or whether there were other areas that were more important to be strengthened. The question was more whether you could've gone with 3 centre backs + Fabinho if needed and Neco Williams/Nat Phillips as a back up and spent the money elsewhere in the team.
		
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The plan was always to replace Lovren with a young CB - they looked at some guy at Braga last summer but was a bit too step in price , Klopp liked Kabak and was getting glowing reviews from Klopps mate Wagner and but Edwards and his team really liked Konate but had to wait until his release clause was active and didn’t want to lose out on him 

I had a feeling that they would have also looked to bring in a forward if they could move on Origi but its proving tricky at the moment


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Well, yes. We could have. But I think they were always going to buy one, because nobody really knew how Van Dijk and Gomez were going to come back from their injuries. Matip's was a little different, but not buying and then Van Dijk (especially) not being ready for the season would have been awful planning.

As I said in my longer post, I'd *like *a forward. I like the look of Minamino, but I don't think he's quite got it. Someone else in the mould of Jota, who absolutely hit the ground running, can play across the front 3 and longer term challenge them. But I have no idea who that is. Overall, I'm super happy with the balance of the squad, yes you can pick holes if you try hard enough but in the grand scheme of things we're in a bloody good position.
		
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I don't disagree with you in terms of being in a good position. Chelsea are looking good, Man City could've done with an Aguero replacement but will still be strong and Man Utd could be challengers if Ole gets it right. As a neutral I've got my fingers crossed that those four drop points and take points off each other during the season to keep it interesting for as long as possible. I think the three I've mentioned, plus Liverpool, will be the top 4 at the end of the season in whatever order, let's just hope for a close title race.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2021)

If Liverpool want to win the league they have to beat Chelsea, and playing against 10 men. It will be there best chance. 
That aside I am seriously missing something. Liverpool fans are bogged off that Liverpool bosses have not spent owt bringing in new players. But at the same time they have enough in the team/ squad to win the league. So why be bogged off. Personally I think the squad is light. 
Top three I see as Chelsea, City and Utd. In any order. Fourth is up for grabs excluding Norwich and Arsenal 👍


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## Kellfire (Aug 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't disagree with you in terms of being in a good position. Chelsea are looking good, Man City could've done with an Aguero replacement but will still be strong and Man Utd could be challengers if Ole gets it right. As a neutral I've got my fingers crossed that those four drop points and take points off each other during the season to keep it interesting for as long as possible. I think the three I've mentioned, plus Liverpool, will be the top 4 at the end of the season in whatever order, let's just hope for a close title race.
		
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Ole won’t get it right, sadly. We are entirely dependent on the best players in the squad doing it with individual performances and not because of the way we play as a team.


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## Kellfire (Aug 29, 2021)

Liverpool have had to condemn a section of their fans again after more homophobic singing.

Here’s something I don’t get; when someone decides they’re going to sing something offensive like that, how don’t they have the self awareness to worry about what the people around them who don’t join in think of them?


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## Dando (Aug 29, 2021)




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## Pin-seeker (Aug 29, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Liverpool have had to condemn a section of their fans again after more homophobic singing.

Here’s something I don’t get; when someone decides they’re going to sing something offensive like that, how don’t they have the self awareness to worry about what the people around them who don’t join in think of them?
		
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....helsea-during-premier-league-match-at-anfield

2nd running.

I think they’re too stupid to be worrying about what others think.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 29, 2021)

,


Kellfire said:



			Liverpool have had to condemn a section of their fans again after more homophobic singing.

Here’s something I don’t get; when someone decides they’re going to sing something offensive like that, how don’t they have the self awareness to worry about what the people around them who don’t join in think of them?
		
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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			I think they’re too stupid to be worrying about what others think.
		
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This with knobs on. There is no intelligent thought process going on upstairs, they are in their own bubble of stupidity.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2021)

Fans get warned and asked to stop doing it , then play the team within the next couple of games , add booze and rivalry and the thought process dooesnt compute and they ignore all warnings and chant the same rubbish again. It will take a few being thrown out for it to sink in and then we hope it reciprocated across the grounds when it comes to the many disgusting chants some fans use


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 29, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Liverpool have had to condemn a section of their fans again after more homophobic singing.

Here’s something I don’t get; when someone decides they’re going to sing something offensive like that, how don’t they have the self awareness to worry about what the people around them who don’t join in think of them?
		
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I think now we have a society where people don’t want to get involved.
To many times it’s the ones trying to stop morons fighting / singing get hurt.
So they just let them be morons .


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## Billysboots (Aug 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think now we have a society where people don’t want to get involved.
To many times it’s the ones trying to stop morons fighting / singing get hurt.
So they just let them be morons .
		
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Saw this too often in my time with the cops - the number of times innocent bystanders tried to help out, only to end up bearing the brunt of someone’s aggression. It’s no wonder people have become reluctant to intervene.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think now we have a society where people don’t want to get involved.
To many times it’s the ones trying to stop morons fighting / singing get hurt.
So they just let them be morons .
		
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Agree with that… walking to the ground yesterday there was a small group of 3 very p155ed big lumps singing horrible songs at the top of their voices, real cringeworthy stuff, majority of people say nothing, a few feeble minded types joined in. ☹️


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Agree with that… walking to the ground yesterday there was a small group of 3 very p155ed big lumps singing horrible songs at the top of their voices, real cringeworthy stuff, majority of people say nothing, a few feeble minded types joined in. ☹️
		
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That’s about it really at the end of the day

Still have those inbreds that use the football as a release and think they can act how they want - especially when booze and drugs are added to it. Football will never get rid of that element imo

Just seen Motd - wonder what Everton fans are thinking of Rafa at the moment - Dacoure looks a beast 

And Richarlison 😂😂😂


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## larmen (Aug 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Saw this too often in my time with the cops - the number of times innocent bystanders tried to help out, only to end up bearing the brunt of someone’s aggression. It’s no wonder people have become reluctant to intervene.
		
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The Asda Spider-Man incident did show that no one moves in when there, but everyone says they would have moved in when watching it on Twitter.
I am 0-1 on civil courage, happy to take evidence in my phone but not getting beaten for a stranger again.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think now we have a society where people don’t want to get involved.
To many times it’s the ones trying to stop morons fighting / singing get hurt.
So they just let them be morons .
		
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I don't blame anyone for not getting involved for the reasons you and others have given. Clubs have cctv everywhere though, stewards all over, individuals linked to the seat they are in. How hard is it to locate, identify, ban and charge these people? This needs to be done and publicised so that other planks thinking of doing the same start to get the message that they are not welcome at football if they hold and vocalise these views.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2021)

To approach that dirty subject - VAR

It’s been three rounds of games now and have we finally seen the Prem use the VAR far better ?

Offsides done quicker 
Refs going to the screen quicker 

Doesn’t at the moment seemed to have made a dramatic negative impact on the game over the start of the season


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			To approach that dirty subject - VAR

It’s been three rounds of games now and have we finally seen the Prem use the VAR far better ?

Offsides done quicker
Refs going to the screen quicker

Doesn’t at the moment seemed to have made a dramatic negative impact on the game over the start of the season
		
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Yes, far closer to what we all hoped for. A major improvement on last year.

The only complaining voices are managers trying their usual distraction methods from lost points, poor results etc. They are looking hollow this year, last year they were a little less hollow.

I don't remember reading a var will be the death of the game post on here so far this year. Plenty posted last season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2021)

And going to add - England have another young highly talented player coming through in Harvey Elliot - quality on and off the ball , doesn’t look out of place in the team and is shining. There is a couple more coming through as well. Future is bright for England


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## Fade and Die (Aug 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			To approach that dirty subject - VAR

It’s been three rounds of games now and have we finally seen the Prem use the VAR far better ?

Offsides done quicker
Refs going to the screen quicker

Doesn’t at the moment seemed to have made a dramatic negative impact on the game over the start of the season
		
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Yes it’s being used much better this year and combined with the Refs letting play flow more it’s a much better watch. All’s they need to do is tell the linesman to get his flag up when he knows it’s offside and it would be spot on! 

Football does not need much tinkering with.


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## arnieboy (Aug 29, 2021)

Just checking the league table.😀COYS!


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## Imurg (Aug 29, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Just checking the league table.😀COYS!
		
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I see what you mean...
West Ham are 2nd


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## Billysboots (Aug 29, 2021)

Can someone please tell Jamie Carragher that he really doesn’t have to talk as though he is placing irreparable strain on his vocal cords.


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## Kellfire (Aug 29, 2021)

I assume Twitter is awash with people screaming about the fact Ronaldo isn’t playing. 😀


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## Billysboots (Aug 29, 2021)

Any chance Fred can be hooked now, before it’s too late? Absolutely shocking first five minutes.


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## Slime (Aug 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Any chance Fred can be hooked now, before it’s too late? *Absolutely shocking first five minutes.*

Click to expand...

Absolutely shocking first three years!


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## road2ruin (Aug 29, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I assume Twitter is awash with people screaming about the fact Ronaldo isn’t playing. 😀
		
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Not sure it’d have made the blindest but if difference after that first half. Hardly awash with chances for Ronaldo to get on the end of!!


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## Kellfire (Aug 29, 2021)

Solskjaer really is stealing a living. Same old story; no cohesion, no structure. And shock horror - he plays Sancho on the wrong side to accommodate Dan James.


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## Billysboots (Aug 29, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Solskjaer really is stealing a living. Same old story; no cohesion, no structure. And shock horror - he plays Sancho on the wrong side to accommodate Dan James.
		
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I’m more concerned about the lack of cover in front of the back four. Fred couldn’t manage it alone if he was a decent player, but he absolutely isn’t. But with Pogba dropping deeper they’re a man light, because he won’t do his defensive work.


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## Slime (Aug 29, 2021)

Never in doubt .................................................


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## Kellfire (Aug 29, 2021)

Neves with the worst simulation since Rivaldo?


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## Slime (Aug 29, 2021)

Neves, absolutely pathetic.


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## Billysboots (Aug 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Neves, absolutely pathetic.
		
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But Carragher still says it might have been given last season!! Not sure there was even any contact.


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## Billysboots (Aug 29, 2021)

Just seen it again and there clearly was contact. Was it a clear and obvious error by Mike Dean? Possibly not. But it balances out Bruno being flattened last week at Southampton in the build up to their goal, and that not being given.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 29, 2021)

Sourness what an absolute joker 

Foul by Pogba no doubt 
A late reaction by Neves certainly not pathetic 
Pathetic by Fernandes in the first half clutching his face.

Very sluggish performance by Utd especially first half but impressed by Wolves in first half.
Not many teams going to Wolves will get it easy.
Fantastic double save by DeGea


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## Billysboots (Aug 29, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Sourness what an absolute joker
		
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Cannot abide the man. He talks drivel. A leg breaking challenge? My arse.


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## Piece (Aug 29, 2021)

Souness frothing at the mouth for much to do about nothing.


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## Junior (Aug 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Absolutely shocking first three years!
		
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I don't know why they don't try VDB in that position.   He had a great game playing there against Everton pre season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2021)

Junior said:



			I don't know why they don't try VDB in that position.   He had a great game playing there against Everton pre season.
		
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What’s going on with him ? He was excellent for Ajax - I guess he needs to be next to a more defensive player ?

Certainly need someone there - Fred just not good enough 

Greenwood is and excellent player , but is he going to be the one missing out when Ronaldo comes in 

what we have seen is all those top 4 teams have areas that could do with strengthening


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## Billysboots (Aug 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s going on with him ? He was excellent for Ajax - I guess he needs to be next to a more defensive player ?

Certainly need someone there - Fred just not good enough

Greenwood is and excellent player , but is he going to be the one missing out when Ronaldo comes in

what we have seen is all those top 4 teams have areas that could do with strengthening
		
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The cynic in me still thinks VDB was not a player Solskjaer wanted and his failure to give the lad a kick is his way of telling the United hierarchy who is in charge.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			what we have seen is all those top 4 teams have areas that could do with strengthening
		
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Not sure I agree with regards to Man Utd or Chelsea, unless it's bringing in the real top, and massively expensive, players such as Haaland, Van Dijk, De Bruyne, MBappe etc.

Where would you say that Chelsea need strengthening?

Man City would be stronger with an Aguero replacement. Liverpool could possibly do with being stronger in midfield or up front in terms of squad depth and changing things from the bench but are looking pretty good. Man Utd could possibly do with a Fred replacement but I think the manager is the real problem there. Imagine what Klopp or Pep could do with that squad of players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The cynic in me still thinks VDB was not a player Solskjaer wanted and his failure to give the lad a kick is his way of telling the United hierarchy who is in charge.
		
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Just seems a waste of a player who looks to be what’s missing - and if he wasn’t going to be played then sell him


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not sure I agree with regards to Man Utd or Chelsea, unless it's bringing in the real top, and massively expensive, players such as Haaland, Van Dijk, De Bruyne, MBappe etc.

Where would you say that Chelsea need strengthening?

Man City would be stronger with an Aguero replacement. Liverpool could possibly do with being stronger in midfield or up front in terms of squad depth and changing things from the bench but are looking pretty good. Man Utd could possibly do with a Fred replacement but I think the manager is the real problem there. Imagine what Klopp or Pep could do with that squad of players.
		
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Man Utd imo need two or at the very least centre mids - one Defensive mid 

And Chelsea a CB short imo


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## pauljames87 (Aug 29, 2021)

Nikola Vlašić rumoured to be on the verge of signing for west ham. Very pleased if true 

Lingard alternative.. 23 so much younger 

Would be happy with that buisneses him and zouma


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## pokerjoke (Aug 29, 2021)

Whilst I agree Fred is not the long term solution to our CDM he certainly puts in a shift and always gives it his all.
VDB has no future at Utd in any position.
Has never been given a run in the side,I suspect he has shown little in training to warrant a start.
Getting a Kanye style quality CDM would be my number one priority.


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## Billysboots (Aug 29, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Whilst I agree Fred is not the long term solution to our CDM he certainly puts in a shift and always gives it his all.
VDB has no future at Utd in any position.
Has never been given a run in the side,I suspect he has shown little in training to warrant a start.
Getting a Kanye style quality CDM would be my number one priority.
		
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Kante was the reason Leicester won the league in 2016, not Vardy. An absolutely awesome player, who I would love to see at OT.

I don’t disagree Fred gives his all, but he is beyond awful. Everything Wolves did in the first twenty minutes was a result of either a Fred mistake, or him simply not being good enough at this level. He’s so bad I actually feel sorry for him.

He had a run of games last year when I actually thought the penny had finally dropped, but he’s now as bad as he ever was, and no amount of effort will ever gloss over his shortcomings.

A defensive midfielder is an absolute priority. I keep hearing United being linked with a loan move for Saul Niguez - a player in his image, or Declan Rice, would make a huge difference to our prospects. We’re currently extremely vulnerable in front of our back four.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Just seen it again and there clearly was contact. Was it a clear and obvious error by Mike Dean? Possibly not. But it balances out Bruno being flattened last week at Southampton in the build up to their goal, and that not being given.



Click to expand...

That’s a clear foul by Pogba.
Over the ball and he does catch him.
But the delay going down was strange.
But refs have been praised for going to the monitor a bit more.
I think if Dean looks at that again he gives the foul.
But two wrongs don’t make a right. VAR not working in that one imo.


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## Junior (Aug 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s going on with him ? He was excellent for Ajax - I guess he needs to be next to a more defensive player ?

Certainly need someone there - Fred just not good enough

Greenwood is and excellent player , but is he going to be the one missing out when Ronaldo comes in

what we have seen is all those top 4 teams have areas that could do with strengthening
		
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Who knows , Ithink Greenwood will play where James played today and Ronaldo CF.


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## rudebhoy (Aug 30, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 38200

😬😂😂
		
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You honestly think that is amusing?


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## Billysboots (Aug 30, 2021)

Junior said:



			Who knows , Ithink Greenwood will play where James played today and Ronaldo CF.
		
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Greenwood is wasted out wide, but with Ronaldo and Cavani also there I fear you may be right. The issue with that is that, if Greenwood is pushed out on the right, that means Sancho plays on the left, not his best position either.

Then of course you have Rashford, when fit, and Martial. Solskjaer now has an embarrassment of riches, and something has to give.

It would not surprise me to see a departure before the window closes.


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## Kellfire (Aug 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Greenwood is wasted out wide, but with Ronaldo and Cavani also there I fear you may be right. The issue with that is that, if Greenwood is pushed out on the right, that means Sancho plays on the left, not his best position either.

Then of course you have Rashford, when fit, and Martial. Solskjaer now has an embarrassment of riches, and something has to give.

It would not surprise me to see a departure before the window closes.
		
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I’ll nip over to Manchester and give Martial a lift to the airport myself.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Greenwood is wasted out wide, but with Ronaldo and Cavani also there I fear you may be right. The issue with that is that, if Greenwood is pushed out on the right, that means Sancho plays on the left, not his best position either.

Then of course you have Rashford, when fit, and Martial. Solskjaer now has an embarrassment of riches, and something has to give.

It would not surprise me to see a departure before the window closes.
		
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All this distraction, no one is concerned about how the team can be set up to get Phil Jones in the team.


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## Billysboots (Aug 30, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I’ll nip over to Manchester and give Martial a lift to the airport myself.
		
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Ironically, whilst I agree with you, Martial is a better finisher than the ludicrously overrated Rashford in my opinion.

If everyone is fit, neither of them get in that side.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 30, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			You honestly think that is amusing?
		
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Yes I honestly do,guessing you don’t.
Not to worry👍🏻


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## rudebhoy (Aug 30, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yes I honestly do,guessing you don’t.
Not to worry👍🏻
		
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You've got a very strange sense of humour if you think child abuse is a laughing matter.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			You honestly think that is amusing?
		
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As people discussed yesterday there always some that find it amusing or appropriate to chant shocking things or make jokes of shocking things but they will prob be the first to point fingers at other clubs


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 30, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			You've got a very strange sense of humour if you think child abuse is a laughing matter.
		
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🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As people discussed yesterday there always some that find it amusing or appropriate to chant shocking things or make jokes of shocking things but they will prob be the first to point fingers at other clubs
		
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Eh,what are you even talking about now Phil???
🙄🙄🙄


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## chrisd (Aug 30, 2021)

Man U should get Rooney back to play alongside Ronaldo - the last time I saw them live together at Selhurst Park they both spent most of the game on their arses whining to the referee.


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## ger147 (Aug 30, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Man U should get Rooney back to play alongside Ronaldo - the last time I saw them live together at Selhurst Park they both spent most of the game on their arses whining to the referee.
		
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Maybe if Ronaldo invited his mum to the game Rooney would be more likely to turn up 👍🏻


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## rudebhoy (Aug 30, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
		
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Go on then, explain the joke, and tell me how it's not based on child abuse?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 30, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Go on then, explain the joke, and tell me how it's not based on child abuse?
		
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Ok you didn’t find it funny,that’s fine.
Really not sure why you feel the need to make such a big song and dance about it😳

Little tip for you mate,don’t watch any Ricky Gervais stand up 😂


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## rudebhoy (Aug 30, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Ok you didn’t find it funny,that’s fine.
Really not sure why you feel the need to make such a big song and dance about it😳

Little tip for you mate,don’t watch any Ricky Gervais stand up 😂
		
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I was hoping you were going to say you had got the wrong end of the stick. The fact that you are admitting you know it's a reference to a current story about child sex abuse, and you find it funny and think it's acceptable to post on here, is deeply depressing.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 30, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			I was hoping you were going to say you had got the wrong end of the stick. The fact that you are admitting you know it's a reference to a current story about child sex abuse, and you find it funny and think it's acceptable to post on here, is deeply depressing.
		
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Ok mate if it bothers you that much can I suggest reporting it to one of the moderators on here,that way we don’t have to waste our time going back and forth & spoiling the thread.
Have a good day 👍🏻


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## Billysboots (Aug 30, 2021)

Fellas, with respect this is a football thread and one which, in the main, most enjoy reading and contributing to. Let’s not spoil it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2021)

It looks like we might be picking up Maitland-Niles on loan with an option to buy. One for Arsenal fans, what's he like? Is he another who just needs a bit of love and a run of games?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2021)

Just seen the Pogba/Neves incident 

It’s a foul - no doubt about it and just a yellow 

Not sure why they didn’t go to the monitor 

But Neves reaction wasn’t great


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## Billysboots (Aug 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just seen the Pogba/Neves incident 

It’s a foul - no doubt about it and just a yellow 

Not sure why they didn’t go to the monitor 

But Neves reaction wasn’t great
		
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Not sure it was a clear and obvious error, Phil. There was contact, but even I only saw it after the third or fourth slow motion replay.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Ironically, whilst I agree with you, Martial is a better finisher than the ludicrously overrated Rashford in my opinion.

If everyone is fit, neither of them get in that side.
		
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Personally I think if Rashford wants to kick On and not be another Sturridge he should be following Ronaldo everywhere. He has a couple of years to turn into the player he has not yet shown he should be


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Not sure it was a clear and obvious error, Phil. There was contact, but even I only saw it after the third or fourth slow motion replay.
		
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He can be asked to go to the monitor to check it 

I think it Neves went down straight away then he would have given it - he caught him and thankfully the shin pad helped but it could have been nasty.


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## fundy (Aug 30, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It looks like we might be picking up Maitland-Niles on loan with an option to buy. One for Arsenal fans, what's he like? Is he another who just needs a bit of love and a run of games?
		
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has looked decent when hes played at right back, less so in central midfield but has been a decent prospect for years without fully breaking through. been refusing to accept he may be a better right back than centre mid, hed be our best right back if he did! struggled a bit on loan at west brom end of last season and couldnt hold down a central mid berth for them

expect he will benefit from a change of environment (hard to think theres many at arsenal that wouldnt currently, especially those who are on the wrong side of arteta), wish him well he comes across as a decent lad

edit: its an upgrade from the last 2 times youve taken players from us


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## Billysboots (Aug 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He can be asked to go to the monitor to check it 

I think it Neves went down straight away then he would have given it - he caught him and thankfully the shin pad helped but it could have been nasty.
		
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I don’t disagree, but unless things have changed since last season VAR should only intervene if there is a clear and obvious error, and that includes directing the on-field referee to his pitch side monitor.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			edit: its an upgrade from the last 2 times youve taken players from us 

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That is such a low bar 😕, so low.

He has been brought in as a right back, to ultimately replace Coleman. I hope he realises this before he signs his name.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I don’t disagree, but unless things have changed since last season VAR should only intervene if there is a clear and obvious error, and that includes directing the on-field referee to his pitch side monitor.
		
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If a clear foul isnt obvious then im not sure what it is - I was amazed how it wasn’t seen at the time as it was right under the refs nose but then it was Dean 😂


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## Billysboots (Aug 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If a clear foul isnt obvious then im not sure what it is - I was amazed how it wasn’t seen at the time as it was right under the refs nose but then it was Dean 😂
		
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I can absolutely understand how he missed it. As I say, it wasn’t until I had seen several replays at normal speed and then slow motion that I could even spot the contact, and even then it wasn’t obvious from every angle.

Sometimes we need to cut officials some slack.


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## fundy (Aug 30, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is such a low bar 😕, so low.

He has been brought in as a right back, to ultimately replace Coleman. I hope he realises this before he signs his name.
		
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well hes spent 2 years barely playing any football having refused to play there repeatedly, maybe the penny has finally dropped, be yet another kick in the teeth for arsenal fans if he goes elsewhere and plays right back while we get top choose between the atrocious cedric, the appallingly slow chambers or wheres the exit door bellerin. not that thats a surprise under the current set up


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I can absolutely understand how he missed it. As I say, it wasn’t until I had seen several replays at normal speed and then slow motion that I could even spot the contact, and even then it wasn’t obvious from every angle.

Sometimes we need to cut officials some slack.
		
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The only thing though is if Dean thought it wasn’t a foul why has he not booked Neves for simulation.
I can understand the ref missing it but not VAR as it led to a goal and should have been checked properly.
So VAR still not working properly imo.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If a clear foul isnt obvious then im not sure what it is - I was amazed how it wasn’t seen at the time as it was right under the refs nose but then it was Dean 😂
		
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For an incident like that, I'm unsure what the bar is, but it may have to be a red card decision to disallow the goal? Otherwise, how far back in a move will they get VAR to look at, and potentially reverse a decision to award a simple free kick?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			For an incident like that, I'm unsure what the bar is, but it may have to be a red card decision to disallow the goal? Otherwise, how far back in a move will they get VAR to look at, and potentially reverse a decision to award a simple free kick?
		
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I think that incident was about the limit of where you go back too - after that foul the ball went to Greenwood I believe and then he scored - but I don’t know if there is some defined limit , I guess if the incident is a key moment in the move 🤷‍♂️


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## ger147 (Aug 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The only thing though is if Dean thought it wasn’t a foul why has he not booked Neves for simulation.
I can understand the ref missing it but not VAR as it led to a goal and should have been checked properly.
So VAR still not working properly imo.
		
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I don't know why obviously as you would need to ask the referee but Neves was booked after the incident.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 30, 2021)

I m


ger147 said:



			I don't know why obviously as you would need to ask the referee but Neves was booked after the incident.
		
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never seen him booked on MOTD .
That makes Deans decision even worse.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I m
never seen him booked on MOTD .
That makes Deans decision even worse.
		
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Watching it live the ref booked Neves after the goal had been scored. The commentators suggested that it was for something he had said during his protests.


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## ger147 (Aug 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I m
never seen him booked on MOTD .
That makes Deans decision even worse.
		
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I watched the game live on Sky Sports. I'm not sure if it was for simulation or dissent as Neves was going nuts trying to show him his leg etc. but from memory, most of that was after he had been shown the yellow card so my view was the yellow card was for simulation.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 30, 2021)

Seem to 


Swango1980 said:



			For an incident like that, I'm unsure what the bar is, but it may have to be a red card decision to disallow the goal? Otherwise, how far back in a move will they get VAR to look at, and potentially reverse a decision to award a simple free kick?
		
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remember a lot on here saying a Liverpool goal a while ago should be disallowed because the ball hit TAA on the arm in his own penalty area.
So you can go quite far back!
This one led to the only goal of the game so it was important.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think that incident was about the limit of where you go back too - after that foul the ball went to Greenwood I believe and then he scored - but I don’t know if there is some defined limit , I guess if the incident is a key moment in the move 🤷‍♂️
		
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Think the ball went back to Varane. Ended up with Greenwood after this. Was still a fair bit to do from when Neves lost it. I could understand if ball broke directly to a forward running through on goal.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Seem to

remember a lot on here saying a Liverpool goal a while ago should be disallowed because the ball hit TAA on the arm in his own penalty area.
So you can go quite far back!
This one led to the only goal of the game so it was important.
		
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Yes, but VAR  didn't go that far back, so that is academic. Besides, the way they use VAR this season looks to be very different to previous years


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## Bazzatron (Aug 30, 2021)

ger147 said:



			I don't know why obviously as you would need to ask the referee but Neves was booked after the incident.
		
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Neves was booked for daring to complain to the cheat of a ref about a clear foul in the build up to the goal. Mike Dean is the most arrogant referee we've got.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 30, 2021)

Yes they got it 


Swango1980 said:



			Yes, but VAR  didn't go that far back, so that is academic. Besides, the way they use VAR this season looks to be very different to previous years
		
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They got it wrong and didn’t tell the ref to go have a look.
The first goal in any game is vital ,and any slight thing should be looked  at.
If Neves dosnt lose the ball UTD don’t score.
Poor from VAR that’s what it’s there for .imo of course.
The card if it was for simulation should be cancelled as well.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 30, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Neves was booked for daring to complain to the cheat of a ref about a clear foul in the build up to the goal. Mike Dean is the most arrogant referee we've got.
		
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Cheat is a bit strong !
The rest is spot on.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes they got it

They got it wrong and didn’t tell the ref to go have a look.
The first goal in any game is vital ,and any slight thing should be looked  at.
If Neves dosnt lose the ball UTD don’t score.
Poor from VAR that’s what it’s there for .imo of course.
The card if it was for simulation should be cancelled as well.
		
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So, it would be OK to not look at it if it was the second goal?


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, but VAR  didn't go that far back, so that is academic. Besides, the way they use VAR this season looks to be very different to previous years
		
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You asked how far back they will go.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			So, it would be OK to not look at it if it was the second goal?
		
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You want to show me where I said that?
All goals should be looked at ,thought that was the norm.
But the first is vital if you win 1-0.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Cheat is a bit strong !
The rest is spot on.
		
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He's done us so many times, it's hard not to feel that way.


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## Billysboots (Aug 30, 2021)

Sorry, but I think you are all missing the point. VAR only intervenes when there is a clear and obvious error by the on-field officials. 

I say again, if it took repeated replays from various angles in slow motion to eventually show what appeared to be a glancing contact between Pogba’s boot and Neves’s shin pad, then with the very best will in the world I do not see how anyone can say there has been a clear and obvious error.

Would this debate be raging if the incident had happened in a game between Brighton and Watford? I suspect not. Just saying 😉


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## Swango1980 (Aug 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You want to show me where I said that?
All goals should be looked at ,thought that was the norm.
But the first is vital if you win 1-0.
		
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You implied any slight thing should be looked at if it was the first goal. That is why I asked if this made a difference if it was the second goal. If not, then I'm assuming your comment about it being the 1st goal is irrelevant to this discussion.

To me, it doesn't matter what goal it is, if something needs checked it should be. In the case of this particular discussion, I was more interested how far VAR will go back to check incidents, and what level of potential foul they will flag (I.e. anything from regular light foul up to red card incident)


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Sorry, but I think you are all missing the point. VAR only intervenes when there is a clear and obvious error by the on-field officials.

I say again, if it took repeated replays from various angles in slow motion to eventually show what appeared to be a glancing contact between Pogba’s boot and Neves’s shin pad, then with the very best will in the world I do not see how anyone can say there has been a clear and obvious error.

Would this debate be raging if the incident had happened in a game between Brighton and Watford? I suspect not. Just saying 😉
		
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It’s pretty much a judgment call I guess - I saw it once and you could see the contact on his leg - even the referee winced it seems 

Happens against you and you would be disappointed.


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## 4LEX (Aug 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Ironically, whilst I agree with you, Martial is a better finisher than the ludicrously overrated Rashford in my opinion.

If everyone is fit, neither of them get in that side.
		
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No way, Rashford has been playing injured for two years and always puts in a shift. No better left winger stats wise than him last season despite an average season. When he comes back from the shoulder op, you'll see the real Rashford.


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## 4LEX (Aug 30, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Solskjaer really is stealing a living. Same old story; no cohesion, no structure. And shock horror - he plays Sancho on the wrong side to accommodate Dan James.
		
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It's comical. He's going to waste that squad. The first half was similar to a dozen or so bad performances last season, second to the ball, overrun and rely on woeful finishing and great saves to hang in then steal the points. Big win but the two away games show the lack of managerial nouse.


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## Billysboots (Aug 30, 2021)

4LEX said:



			No way, Rashford has been playing injured for two years and always puts in a shift. No better left winger stats wise than him last season despite an average season. When he comes back from the shoulder op, you'll see the real Rashford.
		
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A shoulder injury does not impact on decision making and Rashford’s is poor far too often. Sorry, but he is nowhere near world class. 

I know what his stats say, but I also know what I see with my own eyes. Vastly overrated.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 30, 2021)

4LEX said:



			No way, Rashford has been playing injured for two years and *always puts in a shift*. No better left winger stats wise than him last season despite an average season. When he comes back from the shoulder op, you'll see the real Rashford.
		
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Always makes me smile when I read this, As a City fan I /They have always loved players that have put in a shift. 9 times out of ten it means they run round like a headless chicken. Fred puts a shift in as well.


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## BiMGuy (Aug 30, 2021)

Rashford is possibly the most overrated player in the Premier League.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Rashford is possibly the most overrated player in the Premier League.
		
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To be honest I feel a bit for him. I mean who exactly as a manager has developed him. Am sure that under Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and a few others he would of developed more. But under OGS, Maueen, LVG, nope he has not developed for me.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Sorry, but I think you are all missing the point. VAR only intervenes when there is a clear and obvious error by the on-field officials.

I say again, if it took repeated replays from various angles in slow motion to eventually show what appeared to be a glancing contact between Pogba’s boot and Neves’s shin pad, then with the very best will in the world I do not see how anyone can say there has been a clear and obvious error.

Would this debate be raging if the incident had happened in a game between Brighton and Watford? I suspect not. Just saying 😉
		
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I am sure it would be important to Brighton or Watford fans.
I don’t blame the ref if anything he might have been to close to get a proper view.
Pogba was showing his studs and over the ball that’s normally not allowed .
But VAR has all the resources to see the contact ,I thought that was what it’s for.
As the ref clearly missed the contact .
Bet the Wolves fans are not happy.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 31, 2021)

Nikola Vlašić, Kurt zouma and Alphonse Areola

That's 3 decent signings this window 

Zouma walks into the team, areola I see taking over from fabainski soon

Vlasic very impressed with. Lingard alternative.. don't get me wrong would have loved him back but sounds like man United wanted too much for someone who's 28 with 1 year left on his deal so we turn to a 23 year old for similar fee. Good business


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Always makes me smile when I read this, As a City fan I /They have always loved players that have put in a shift. 9 times out of ten it means they run round like a headless chicken. Fred puts a shift in as well.
		
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My PP loves Almiron at Newcastle for this exact same reason. I ask him, 'what does he do though, apart from run around and put a shift in'. He still can't answer that . Shift players are like the equivalent of using extra butter cream to cover a dodgy sponge. Underneath, it is still a dodgy sponge.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 31, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My PP loves Almiron at Newcastle for this exact same reason. I ask him, 'what does he do though, apart from run around and put a shift in'. He still can't answer that . Shift players are like the equivalent of using extra butter cream to cover a dodgy sponge. Underneath, it is still a dodgy sponge.
		
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It's an old school English way of thinking about football

Puts a shift in

It's why players like ozil get coated as they look lazy when he was such a talented player


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2021)

Man Utd confirm Ronaldo signing

No UTD tours for him to the US 

West Ham bring in Vlasic - interesting to see how he does second time around in the Prem.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 31, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My PP loves Almiron at Newcastle for this exact same reason. I ask him, 'what does he do though, apart from run around and put a shift in'. He still can't answer that . Shift players are like the equivalent of using extra butter cream to cover a dodgy sponge. Underneath, it is still a dodgy sponge.
		
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The one attribute relatively poor quality players have is they put in a shift. It is the only attribute that ultimately gets them in the team. If they put in the same effort as Pogba, they'd struggle to get in your local Sunday league team. Roy Keane is right when he mocks pundits who praise players for putting in a shift. It is their job, they really should all be doing it. If you play in a team who wants to challenge for trophies, you really need to have more to you than that.


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## Kellfire (Aug 31, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Nikola Vlašić, Kurt zouma and Alphonse Areola

That's 3 decent signings this window

Zouma walks into the team, areola I see taking over from fabainski soon

Vlasic very impressed with. Lingard alternative.. don't get me wrong would have loved him back but sounds like man United wanted too much for someone who's 28 with 1 year left on his deal so we turn to a 23 year old for similar fee. Good business
		
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Areola’s a bit of a tit.


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## nickjdavis (Aug 31, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My PP loves Almiron at Newcastle for this exact same reason. I ask him, 'what does he do though, apart from run around and put a shift in'. He still can't answer that . Shift players are like the equivalent of using extra butter cream to cover a dodgy sponge. Underneath, it is still a dodgy sponge.
		
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so basically Almiron is the butter cream which covers up Shelveys failings?

Now Shelvey is one player who very rarely gets accused of "putting a shift in".


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 31, 2021)

James to Leeds is an interesting one,he definitely needed a move & reckon Leeds could be a good fit.
Liverpool have made a massive signing,they’ve given Henderson a new contract 😂
Willians had enough at Arsenal & tore his contract up 😳😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			so basically Almiron is the butter cream which covers up Shelveys failings?

Now Shelvey is one player who very rarely gets accused of "putting a shift in".
		
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. Shelvey is one of those players who should look back in later years and wonder 'what if'. Nearly a very good player but what is between his ears, or not, has let him down time and time again.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			AA best in his position now that’s funny.
Gets caught up field way too often,if Chelsea’s final ball in the first half hour was better it could have been 3.0.
Now some say Klopp wants him to play that way,well that says something about Klopps nievity.
Bielsa is the same,so attack minded buts forgets defense,class teams attack these spaces.

Matip is better than Gomez and imo Gomez is definitely not good enough.
Matip is better but IMO not good enough,it’s my opinion.

As someone said Liverpool were easy to defend against because it was all in front of them,you needed width down the right against Alonso and the Ox was available.
Even the commentary was saying they needed width.
Not in the top 3 for me,maybe even 5th
		
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Do you still have the tactical nous of someone who watched Jackie Charlton's Saturday morning TV programme in the 80's?

I'd pick that apart, but it's so clueless, I'd be quicker writing a game of thrones series.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 31, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you still have the tactical nous of someone who watched Jackie Charlton's Saturday morning TV programme in the 80's?

I'd pick that apart, but it's so clueless, I'd be quicker writing a game of thrones series.
		
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The 80s had all the best Tv programs Pete.


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## Neilds (Aug 31, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			James to Leeds is an interesting one,he definitely needed a move & reckon Leeds could be a good fit.
Liverpool have made a massive signing,they’ve given Henderson a new contract 😂
Willians had enough at Arsenal & tore his contract up 😳😂
		
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If transfer fees are to be believed, James is twice as good as Ronaldo. The numbers are just getting stupid 😲


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2021)

Neilds said:



			If transfer fees are to be believed, James is twice as good as Ronaldo. The numbers are just getting stupid 😲
		
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Wouldn’t read too much into Ronaldos transfer - 36 , only a year left on his contract and getting £500k a week ( highest paid player in the league ) - he will end up being a too much expensive than James

Hopefully it will allow Raphina to leave next season 😀


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			The 80s had all the best Tv programs Pete.
		
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Yep, especially MOTD and midnight sports night special, unless you supported Manchester teams, of course.


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## Billysboots (Aug 31, 2021)

So PSG have turned down £189m for Mbappe and are letting him go for free next summer? Is it just me, or is that barmy when the club already have Messi, Di Maria and Neymar? Is Mbappe that good that they are desperate to keep him for a season then see him go for nowt?


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## 4LEX (Aug 31, 2021)

It's mind blowing really. Shows how stacked the owners are when they can write £200m off. Even Man City would sell in those circumstances for £100m.

Would love to see PSG miss out on the CL this season. So much wrong with that club and side.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			So PSG have turned down £189m for Mbappe and are letting him go for free next summer? Is it just me, or is that barmy when the club already have Messi, Di Maria and Neymar? Is Mbappe that good that they are desperate to keep him for a season then see him go for nowt?
		
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I don’t think the money matters to them and I suspect they think this represents their best chance of winning the CL - they might also still harbour chances of getting him to sign a new contract


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## Swango1980 (Aug 31, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			So PSG have turned down £189m for Mbappe and are letting him go for free next summer? Is it just me, or is that barmy when the club already have Messi, Di Maria and Neymar? Is Mbappe that good that they are desperate to keep him for a season then see him go for nowt?
		
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Maybe they are hoping to agree a straight swap with Martial, rather than £189m in the bank. Or they really don't want the money, hoping they win Champions League and convince Mbappe PSG are better than Real Madrid.

Not sure where Madrid would have got the money, thought they were broke.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe they are hoping to agree a straight swap with Martial, rather than £189m in the bank. Or they really don't want the money, hoping they win Champions League and convince Mbappe PSG are better than Real Madrid.

Not sure where Madrid would have got the money, thought they were broke.
		
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The local government will help them out against no doubt


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## pauljames87 (Aug 31, 2021)

Delighted with our window 

Today we add Alex krul to the midfield on loan with an option 

Another Czech player signed by agent soucek 

Didn't have the best euros but then again xhaka was outstanding so what does the euros teach us 

4 solid signings adds some depth for Europa


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## MadAdey (Aug 31, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No I don’t find it frustrating

When they bought the club one of the main promises was that the club was run within its our means , it stood on its own two feet financially without the need for an owner to keep pumping money in to buy players - that was stated from the start that would not happen - I do find it frustrating when you see demands from people that the owners buy players as they believe that’s the only way to win - who has the richest owner.

I prefer the club to be run this way , it relies on great recruitment and great management- it’s shown to be successful and right now we have a team as good as anyone in Europe - need to have better luck with injury this season but we are going to challenge for the Title , I’m glad everyone is ignoring us
		
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I just look at what teams around us have spent this summer. Arsenal, Spurs, City, United and Leicester have all spent to improve either the first team, or build on an already good squad. 

It just worries me the players we are going into the new season with in midfield. 

Fabhino - top class barring injuries can play most games.
Milner - absolute machine but too old to play all the time
Henderson - top class, has missed 26 over the last 2 season with a knee, groin and hamstring injury. WIll need to be rotated in and out of the team
Keita - looks like he could be great, missed 18 games last season with an ankle, ligament and hamstring injury. Not sure if he can stay fit enough to play most games
Ox - more often than not can have an impact on games, just hope he can stay injury free
Thiago - top class player but not sure how he fits into a Klopp style of playing, should be able to play most games
Jones - great young player with a lot of potential should be able to play lots of games
Elliott - has looked good so far this season, should be able to play lots of games.

Gini played in 179 out of 190 in the premier over the last 5 season. I worry that we have not replaced him and we are relying on players who are probably are not capable of playing most games. When the season gets tough playing twice a week soon I wonder how he is going to keep everyone fresh. Then once the end of the season comes and players are tired and start picking up knocks and suspensions how we will cope.

I am not trying to be the profit of doom, but after so long being stuck as a top 6 team aand only getting champions league football now and again I do not want to go back to that. I do not want the owners just going out and buying anyone to please the fans, but a good midfielder would have been nice. There are plenty around that we could have moved for and not at crazy prices either.


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## MadAdey (Aug 31, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, especially MOTD and midnight sports night special, unless you supported Manchester teams, of course. 

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Do not forget about Saint and Greavsie


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2021)

Adey youre gonna have to explain how Arsenal have improved the first team or built on an already good squad plse


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## MadAdey (Aug 31, 2021)

fundy said:



			Adey youre gonna have to explain how Arsenal have improved the first team or built on an already good squad plse 

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MAybe that was a bit of a stretch, just trying to be kind to Arsenal fans. But they have opened the cheque book, got some players in at least and attempted to improve.


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## Cherry13 (Sep 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



. Shelvey is one of those players who should look back in later years and wonder 'what if'. Nearly a very good player but what is between his ears, or not, has let him down time and time again.
		
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 he’s stolen a living the last few years.  We are desperate to get a replacement defensive midfielder but alas nothing… another gamble by Ashley on a squad that is clearly not good enough, our main central defender (captain) has given away 2 pens in 3 games and the other lot are just as hopeless. Especially when played out of position such as Almiron, Ritchie, Murphy etc.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			I just look at what teams around us have spent this summer. Arsenal, Spurs, City, United and Leicester have all spent to improve either the first team, or build on an already good squad.

It just worries me the players we are going into the new season with in midfield.

Fabhino - top class barring injuries can play most games.
Milner - absolute machine but too old to play all the time
Henderson - top class, has missed 26 over the last 2 season with a knee, groin and hamstring injury. WIll need to be rotated in and out of the team
Keita - looks like he could be great, missed 18 games last season with an ankle, ligament and hamstring injury. Not sure if he can stay fit enough to play most games
Ox - more often than not can have an impact on games, just hope he can stay injury free
Thiago - top class player but not sure how he fits into a Klopp style of playing, should be able to play most games
Jones - great young player with a lot of potential should be able to play lots of games
Elliott - has looked good so far this season, should be able to play lots of games.

Gini played in 179 out of 190 in the premier over the last 5 season. I worry that we have not replaced him and we are relying on players who are probably are not capable of playing most games. When the season gets tough playing twice a week soon I wonder how he is going to keep everyone fresh. Then once the end of the season comes and players are tired and start picking up knocks and suspensions how we will cope.

I am not trying to be the profit of doom, but after so long being stuck as a top 6 team aand only getting champions league football now and again I do not want to go back to that. I do not want the owners just going out and buying anyone to please the fans, but a good midfielder would have been nice. There are plenty around that we could have moved for and not at crazy prices either.
		
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We will need to have a bit more fortune this year in regards injuries 

I believe that Klopp didn’t want to bring in a midfielder so that Elliot can be given a run - we have 8 mids for 3 roles with Elliott replacing Gini 

In regards the spending 

City will always spend - it’s the way they operate 

Chelsea will spend as well 

Arsenal - they have opened up the purse but I have no idea what they have spent all that money on - and seemed to have got worse 

Spurs - it’s just adding onto their already huge debt , I don’t see them being close to top 4

Leicester - have made some smart moves but still see them as short

And Man Utd - I think since Ferguson left they must have spent nearly double what we have yet have won 0 leagues and 0 CL - even again spending this summer and I don’t see them winning , issues in the midfield , a poor manager.

City will be favourites again , if we keep most of the spine fit we will run them close 

The only signing I would have liked would have been a young forward - someone like Doku 

But I think this could be a really good season ahead


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## Swango1980 (Sep 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We will need to have a bit more fortune this year in regards injuries

I believe that Klopp didn’t want to bring in a midfielder so that Elliot can be given a run - we have 8 mids for 3 roles with Elliott replacing Gini

In regards the spending

City will always spend - it’s the way they operate

Chelsea will spend as well

Arsenal - they have opened up the purse but I have no idea what they have spent all that money on - and seemed to have got worse

Spurs - it’s just adding onto their already huge debt , I don’t see them being close to top 4

Leicester - have made some smart moves but still see them as short

And Man Utd - I think since Ferguson left they must have spent nearly double what we have yet have won 0 leagues and 0 CL - even again spending this summer and I don’t see them winning , issues in the midfield , a poor manager.

City will be favourites again , if we keep most of the spine fit we will run them close

The only signing I would have liked would have been a young forward - someone like Doku

But I think this could be a really good season ahead
		
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Once clubs have a decent set of players, the biggest asset is the manager. In terms of teams / squads, on paper, you could argue City, Liverpool, Utd and Chelsea all have what it takes to compete for titles. Tips for the title favour City, then Chelsea and Liverpool because they all have respected managers. No one tips United, unless out of pure hope, because there is little faith Ole has what it takes. He's a nice guy, and there have been some positives at Utd since he joined, including an improvement in moral amongst the squad. Probably dealt with the Pogba situation quite well also, compared to Mourinho. However, tactically he shows nothing and winning every match depends on the players pure quality and figuring it out for themselves. Imagine Guardiola managing that group of players, even with Fred / McTominay as the defensive midfielders. He'd give them confidence, and be crystal clear what he needs them to do.

This season may be Ole's final chance to mount a challenge. If he fails, it must be curtains. There can not be excuses like, they are still short of a defensive midfielder. Because, if they fail this year, there is no way you can bring in a player like Declan Rice and suddenly expect to become favourites to win trophies. Title winning sides to not need world class players in every position. They need a group of great players, a group of leaders, everyone to pull their weight, and a great manager to get the best out of every player to achieve great team results.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Once clubs have a decent set of players, the biggest asset is the manager. In terms of teams / squads, on paper, you could argue City, Liverpool, Utd and Chelsea all have what it takes to compete for titles. Tips for the title favour City, then Chelsea and Liverpool because they all have respected managers. No one tips United, unless out of pure hope, because there is little faith Ole has what it takes. He's a nice guy, and there have been some positives at Utd since he joined, including an improvement in moral amongst the squad. Probably dealt with the Pogba situation quite well also, compared to Mourinho. However, tactically he shows nothing and winning every match depends on the players pure quality and figuring it out for themselves. Imagine Guardiola managing that group of players, even with Fred / McTominay as the defensive midfielders. He'd give them confidence, and be crystal clear what he needs them to do.

This season may be Ole's final chance to mount a challenge. If he fails, it must be curtains. There can not be excuses like, they are still short of a defensive midfielder. Because, if they fail this year, there is no way you can bring in a player like Declan Rice and suddenly expect to become favourites to win trophies. Title winning sides to not need world class players in every position. They need a group of great players, a group of leaders, everyone to pull their weight, and a great manager to get the best out of every player to achieve great team results.
		
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Yep spot on 

The teams are very close  - they all have some areas that can be improved and it’s going to be a tight affair 

Three of the clubs have proven world class managers and all three prob close to being the best 3 in club football - that level of manager has the potential to be the difference between winning the league or not 

When I look at the managers that are around and have moved in the same period OGS has been around - i would have thought they would have leapt straight in for Poch when he was fired or then Tuchel 

Manages like Conte and Mancini would leap at the Man Utd job


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 1, 2021)

😂😂😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Sep 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep spot on

The teams are very close  - they all have some areas that can be improved and it’s going to be a tight affair

Three of the clubs have proven world class managers and all three prob close to being the best 3 in club football - that level of manager has the potential to be the difference between winning the league or not

When I look at the managers that are around and have moved in the same period OGS has been around - i would have thought they would have leapt straight in for Poch when he was fired or then Tuchel

Manages like Conte and Mancini would leap at the Man Utd job
		
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Since Fergie left, when Poch left Spurs it seemed like the first time where there was a ready made manager who would fit Utd perfectly. However, Utd had just committed themselves to Ole, and I guess the board just didn't have the courage to replace him with Poch when he became available. Although, in some respects, you can praise the board for sticking with their man for the longer term, and it may have been more to do with unfortunate timing rather than lack of courage.

Ole may well succeed this year, but not really on any evidence we've seen up to now. If he fails, it will be interesting what happens next. Will Utd go for Poch, will PSG let him go and will he want to go? Brenden Rogers? He seems to play a good brand of football and has a lot of respect in the game. Will Ronaldo be United's next manager!?


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## nickjdavis (Sep 1, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			he’s stolen a living the last few years.  We are desperate to get a replacement defensive midfielder but alas nothing… another gamble by Ashley on a squad that is clearly not good enough, our main central defender (captain) has given away 2 pens in 3 games and the other lot are just as hopeless. Especially when played out of position such as Almiron, Ritchie, Murphy etc.
		
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Its quite telling that the club couldn't even be arsed with the old line of "well we had a number of irons in the fire but we couldn't quite get them over the line in time" to account for their lack of transfer window activity. 

What is ultimately heartbreaking is seeing a club that isn't even trying to compete at any level.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 1, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 38233

😂😂😂😂
		
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Delighted as several other clubs were after her.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 1, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Delighted as several other clubs were after her.
		
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Yeah apparently her Apple crumble is top draw,all credit to Klopp 😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 1, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah apparently her Apple crumble is top draw,all credit to Klopp 😂😂
		
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He’s been eating her carrot cake! He dosnt need glasses anymore.


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## ger147 (Sep 1, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 38233

😂😂😂😂
		
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Paid for by oil billions no doubt...


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 1, 2021)

ger147 said:



			Paid for by oil billions no doubt...
		
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No way,the canteen pays for itself.
That’s the way the club operates 😊


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## AmandaJR (Sep 1, 2021)

Just watching "PL 100 Club: Sergio Aguero" on Sky...what a player...you'll never see anything like this ever again


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 1, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Just watching "PL 100 Club: Sergio Aguero" on Sky...what a player...you'll never see anything like this ever again 

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Yeah he wasn’t bad😊
Henry slightly ahead of him for me tho 😬


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## 4LEX (Sep 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Since Fergie left, when Poch left Spurs it seemed like the first time where there was a ready made manager who would fit Utd perfectly. However, Utd had just committed themselves to Ole, and I guess the board just didn't have the courage to replace him with Poch when he became available. Although, in some respects, you can praise the board for sticking with their man for the longer term, and it may have been more to do with unfortunate timing rather than lack of courage.

Ole may well succeed this year, but not really on any evidence we've seen up to now. If he fails, it will be interesting what happens next. Will Utd go for Poch, will PSG let him go and will he want to go? Brenden Rogers? He seems to play a good brand of football and has a lot of respect in the game. Will Ronaldo be United's next manager!?
		
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Personally think it'll be Poch as the PSG team and dressing room isn't suited to his management style at all. He's an intense, double training type of manager. I expect he'll win the title and a few cups then leave after missing out on the CL.

Ole will almost certainly get found out now he has no excuses. It has to be a proper title challenge and the latter stages of the CL plus winning a trophy. That squad is loaded with world class players. Ole's talk of 'progress' is very similar to Arteta and his "Trust the process" rubbish. The performances in both away games have been shambolic and again, bailed out by luck, bad finishing and then a moment of brilliance or good fortune. Man Utd should be going to Southampton and Wolves and running the game, not being outplayed. There is still no clear style or indentity to the way Man Utd play, other than hitting on the counter in big games. After nearly 3 years that is a huge shortfall for a manager not to implement any sort of style on the side.


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## 4LEX (Sep 1, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah he wasn’t bad😊
Henry slightly ahead of him for me tho 😬
		
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Henry was a level up. He actually created 20 goals and scored 30 a season for a few years at his peak. He was two players in one. Aguero was brilliant as a striker but limited. Van Nistelrooy would've had similar numbers if he stayed in the league as long.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Henry was a level up. He actually created 20 goals and scored 30 a season for a few years at his peak. He was two players in one. Aguero was brilliant as a striker but limited. Van Nistelrooy would've had similar numbers if he stayed in the league as long.
		
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Id never say Aguero was limited.
Maybe Van Nist was,brilliant finisher tho.


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## Kellfire (Sep 2, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Id never say Aguero was limited.
Maybe Van Nist was,brilliant finisher tho.
		
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Van Nistelrooy would’ve been perfect for Pep or Klopp; he was pressing from the front in an era where most strikers just didn’t do that. He hassled defenders like I’d never seen before to try and win the ball back. He couldn’t do what Henry did but Henry couldn’t do what RvN did. Both were better all round players than Aguero.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 2, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Van Nistelrooy would’ve been perfect for Pep or Klopp; he was pressing from the front in an era where most strikers just didn’t do that. He hassled defenders like I’d never seen before to try and win the ball back. He couldn’t do what Henry did but Henry couldn’t do what RvN did. Both were better all round players than Aguero.
		
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Personally I’d go 
Henry
Aguero
Van Nist

Let’s be honest tho all 3 would walk into any team in the Prem now.


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## Kellfire (Sep 2, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Personally I’d go
Henry
Aguero
Van Nist

Let’s be honest tho all 3 would walk into any team in the Prem now.
		
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It’s a shame we only got RvN in the league after he’d blown a knee out. He was a much pacier, direct runner before that.


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## nickjdavis (Sep 2, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Personally I’d go
Henry
Aguero
Van Nist

Let’s be honest tho all 3 would walk into any team in the Prem now.
		
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Yeah but Steve Bruce would play them at left back.

Or send them out on loan to a Scottish Division 1 team.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 2, 2021)

Lovely result by England. Shame the racists had to ruin it. For crying out loud it's 2021

Good to see sterling score to really get under their skin.. scum bags 

Turned off before rices goal typical but hey wins a win


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## 4LEX (Sep 2, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Van Nistelrooy would’ve been perfect for Pep or Klopp; he was pressing from the front in an era where most strikers just didn’t do that. He hassled defenders like I’d never seen before to try and win the ball back. He couldn’t do what Henry did but Henry couldn’t do what RvN did. Both were better all round players than Aguero.
		
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Spot on. He was so underrated. Could hold it up, lay it off, run direct, close control, finish, head and press. It's a shame he joined Utd when they went into a decline and in the middle of two great sides. He literally held them together with Scholes/Keane for a few years. The only downside was his moodiness and selfish outlook.

Henry at his peak as near as the complete player you could get bar Messi.


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## IanM (Sep 2, 2021)

The sort of place England used to go and lose.    

Solid,  effective and efficient.   Nice job lads


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lovely result by England. Shame the racists had to ruin it. For crying out loud it's 2021

Good to see sterling score to really get under their skin.. scum bags

Turned off before rices goal typical but hey wins a win
		
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Yes morons.
Two shocks for me how poor Kane’s finishing was.
Grealish starting now he’s a City player, ! Never got much game time when he was a Villa player.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 2, 2021)

That's how you deal with idiots throwing stuff at players


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## 4LEX (Sep 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lovely result by England. Shame the racists had to ruin it. For crying out loud it's 2021

Good to see sterling score to really get under their skin.. scum bags

Turned off before rices goal typical but hey wins a win
		
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It was always going to happen sadly. Hungary have a long track record of vile racism. This isn't a few hundred trolls online, this was thousands of people in a stadium.

Proud of Sterling tonight, fronted it up and did the business.

England were different gravy in the second half. Harry Kane had a nightmare, scored his toughest chance but missed a handful of sitters.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 38252


That's how you deal with idiots throwing stuff at players
		
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No COVID in Hungary then.
That’s a bit stupid imo.


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## IanM (Sep 2, 2021)

Harry missed some chances you'd have "put your house" on....  Still won 4-0.


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## 4LEX (Sep 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 38252


That's how you deal with idiots throwing stuff at players
		
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The Sun's headline tomorrow.... "Rice in Covid scare after drinking from missile"


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## pauljames87 (Sep 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			No COVID in Hungary then.
That’s a bit stupid imo.
		
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Prob is a bit stupid but then it would be in normal times, how do you know it's not filled with urine, or the previous owner doesn't have all kind of nastys 

Just pure reaction based and shows whilst daft at least he has a personality which seems rare these days in footy


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## 4LEX (Sep 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Prob is a bit stupid but then it would be in normal times, how do you know it's not filled with urine, or the previous owner doesn't have all kind of nastys

Just pure reaction based and shows whilst daft at least he has a personality which seems rare these days in footy
		
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Rice is an absolute top bloke. I don't know him personally but I know a few people who do events for charity and he always goes way beyond to help out. He does a lot of off the record hospital visits and phone calls to West Ham fans who are in a bad way. I know it wasn't Brazil or Italy but his second half performance was seriously impressive.

So good to see Rice, Philips, Mount and Grealish not looking back on the Euros but stepping up and looking forward to the World Cup.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Prob is a bit stupid but then it would be in normal times, how do you know it's not filled with urine, or the previous owner doesn't have all kind of nastys

Just pure reaction based and shows whilst daft at least he has a personality which seems rare these days in footy
		
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Makes a mockery of the Kick out Racisim imo.
How bad do fans have to be before teams are banned from tournaments.
They should be slung out as a warning to others, but will prob just get another fine. ,


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## Kellfire (Sep 2, 2021)

Ronaldo got the number 7 shirt. Weird because I thought they couldn’t do it with the squad already registered.

The FA obviously want the brand to market don’t they. Money money money.


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## Billysboots (Sep 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Makes a mockery of the Kick out Racisim imo.
How bad do fans have to be before teams are banned from tournaments.
They should be slung out as a warning to others, but will prob just get another fine. ,
		
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It’s long, long overdue that the likes of Hungary were booted out of tournament football until they can get their houses in order. The only surprise is that anyone is surprised by the behaviour of thousands of their so-called fans.


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## 4LEX (Sep 2, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Ronaldo got the number 7 shirt. Weird because I thought they couldn’t do it with the squad already registered.

The FA obviously want the brand to market don’t they. Money money money.
		
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You can't change shirts once their registered, however if a player leaves (James) it freed up his shirt which Cavani took. Which obviously freed up the 7. Double profit from Utd. Money for a decent player who wasn't good enough and the star player in his iconic shirt number.


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## IanM (Sep 2, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			It’s long, long overdue that the likes of Hungary were booted out of tournament football until they can get their houses in order. The only surprise is that anyone is surprised by the behaviour of thousands of their so-called fans.
		
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Shows how daft football is...

The stadium is subject to a UEFA ban for racist chanting... but as was a FIFA sanctioned game, the ban doesn't apply. 

Numpties.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 2, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Ronaldo got the number 7 shirt. Weird because I thought they couldn’t do it with the squad already registered.

The FA obviously want the brand to market don’t they. Money money money.
		
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You can apply to change it 

It's been done before 

Think we did it with Lucas Neil we gave him whatever number he never played then because 2 became available and he hadn't played he was able to switch


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 3, 2021)

4LEX said:



			You can't change shirts once their registered, however if a player leaves (James) it freed up his shirt which Cavani took. Which obviously freed up the 7. Double profit from Utd. Money for a decent player who wasn't good enough and the star player in his iconic shirt number.
		
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There was a piece online a few days ago about shirt sales and how clubs barely benefit from it. Don't feel sorry for them, mfrs give them a lump sum over a few seasons and take the risk that sales will go well. The belief was that utd would get around £5 a shirt, the rest goes to Adidas. The utd Adidas deal is reported as £750m over 10yrs.


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## Sats (Sep 3, 2021)

Good result, and promising for the World Cup. Shame it was overshadowed by racist idiots. If you can’t handle losing don’t support a football team as losses are part of the game. Grow up and deal with it.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 3, 2021)

Sats said:



			Good result, and promising for the World Cup. Shame it was overshadowed by racist idiots. If you can’t handle losing don’t support a football team as losses are part of the game. Grow up and deal with it.
		
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I don't think they were being racist because they were losing, pretty sure they'd still be idiots if they were winning. I wonder how they behave if the opposition all happen to be white? Must be lost for words.


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## Neilds (Sep 3, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Makes a mockery of the Kick out Racisim imo.
How bad do fans have to be before teams are banned from tournaments.
They should be slung out as a warning to others, but will prob just get another fine. ,
		
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Be careful what you wish for.  Remember, England are still under investigation for the atrocious scenes at the EUFA final and then there was the trolling of the players who missed the penalties.  As Southgate said yesterday, we should look at getting our house in order before we start moaning about others.
And this is by no means saying what went on last night is anything but wrong and has no place in society.


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## GB72 (Sep 3, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Be careful what you wish for.  Remember, England are still under investigation for the atrocious scenes at the EUFA final and then there was the trolling of the players who missed the penalties.  As Southgate said yesterday, we should look at getting our house in order before we start moaning about others.
And this is by no means saying what went on last night is anything but wrong and has no place in society.
		
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Ah but don't forget that whenever there is an issue in England, they are not really football fans whereas abroad it is always the fans of the club or country that are the problem.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 3, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Be careful what you wish for.  Remember, England are still under investigation for the atrocious scenes at the EUFA final and then there was the trolling of the players who missed the penalties.  As Southgate said yesterday, we should look at getting our house in order before we start moaning about others.
And this is by no means saying what went on last night is anything but wrong and has no place in society.
		
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I think Southgate played a very measured card last night, and before. If he had gone full steam into the Hungarian fans then the Hungarian FA could quite easily shout hypocrisy at the problems we have over here. Yesterday he condemned the fans but highlighted we have our own issues. A tricky tightrope, well walked. Really, the Hungarians should be playing their next game in front of an empty stadium but I wont be holding my breath on that front.

Back to the game, England looked very smooth last night, like a European team . All very comfortable on the ball, impressive. Had Harry not been 'resting' (stropping) these last few weeks he may have been sharper and the score much higher. It all bodes well.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 3, 2021)

Although Kane missed a few chances last night I thought he looked 100% better and sharper than the Euros.

Overall a very solid performance.
When you look at Hungary at the Euros to last night they were a completely different proposition.

The more I watch Phillips and Rice the more impressed I get,although Rice just needs to calm down a bit.


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## DanFST (Sep 3, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Ah but don't forget that whenever there is an issue in England, they are not really football fans whereas abroad it is always the fans of the club or country that are the problem.
		
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I would normally agree, but in this instance Hungary is just backward as a nation. The referendum win to ban depiction of homosexuality to under 18's is a big hint.


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## GB72 (Sep 3, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I would normally agree, but in this instance Hungary is just backward as a nation. The referendum win to ban depiction of homosexuality to under 18's is a big hint.
		
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I do not disagree with you at all on that. Just a bit of a vent from me as the standard reply in this country ro racism, hooliganism, violence or anything derogatory (especially at club level) is that the perpetrators are not football fans.


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## Grizzly (Sep 3, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I do not disagree with you at all on that. Just a bit of a vent from me as the standard reply in this country ro racism, hooliganism, violence or anything derogatory (especially at club level) is that the perpetrators are not football fans.
		
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Its the same with religious violence, political protest groups and golf club committees (and many other things beside) - groups are selectively deaf dumb and blind when it comes to the unsavoury elements within their midst, so dismiss their presence within the group as tangential to their sins


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## GB72 (Sep 3, 2021)

Grizzly said:



			Its the same with religious violence, political protest groups and golf club committees (and many other things beside) - groups are selectively deaf dumb and blind when it comes to the unsavoury elements within their midst, so dismiss their presence within the group as tangential to their sins
		
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I agree to a certain extent that groups all over tend to try and gloss over the sins of their membership but english football supporters seem unique in their desire to claim that any incident that occurs is never carried out by football supporters but rather some rogue group who watch football, follow football clubs, wear football shirts etc but are most definitely and are certainly in no way shape or form football supporters and that approach is carried across into the sports media etc.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Be careful what you wish for.  Remember, England are still under investigation for the atrocious scenes at the EUFA final and then there was the trolling of the players who missed the penalties.  As Southgate said yesterday, we should look at getting our house in order before we start moaning about others.
And this is by no means saying what went on last night is anything but wrong and has no place in society.
		
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My comment was about all football inc England .
But you must admit Hungary are a in a class of their own.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 3, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I agree to a certain extent that groups all over tend to try and gloss over the sins of their membership but english football supporters seem unique in their desire to claim that any incident that occurs is never carried out by football supporters but rather some rogue group who watch football, follow football clubs, wear football shirts etc but are most definitely and are certainly in no way shape or form football supporters and that approach is carried across into the sports media etc.
		
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If someone shouting abuse at a football match also played golf or went to watch snooker, would it be ok to report that golfers are racist? 

Yes they are probably football fans. But, football matches are just a convenient place for hooligans and racist scumbags to demonstrate how vile they are. 

We have a problem with racism, and other minority groups within our society here in the UK. But it is nowhere near the levels of some places in continental Europe.


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## IanM (Sep 5, 2021)

Good old Gareth Bale.... he's also driving the bus to the airport,  flying the plane home and cooking the post match dinner!


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## Beezerk (Sep 5, 2021)

Lingard and Bamford, baffling 🤔


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Lingard and Bamford, baffling 🤔
		
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what did you expect when hes resting the first choice xi?

more worried hes picked 3 right backs lol


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## Beezerk (Sep 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			what did you expect when hes resting the first choice xi?

more worried hes picked 3 right backs lol
		
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😅
Just seems like sympathy caps, it's not like either of those are ever going to break into the full England squad, specially Lingard whose ship sailed a long time ago. Maybe he should be looking at potential talent rather than non starters.
Just read that Bamford is 28, I thought he was much younger 😱


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## pauljames87 (Sep 5, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			😅
Just seems like sympathy caps, it's not like either of those are ever going to break into the full England squad, specially Lingard whose ship sailed a long time ago. Maybe he should be looking at potential talent rather than non starters.
Just read that Bamford is 28, I thought he was much younger 😱
		
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Heard that Bowen was on the reserve list for the squad , but then they stop calling up reserves now what's the point 

He would be perfect in these kind of games 

I hope bamford shows what he can do as a Kane back up

Lingard we know he can perform but what's point? He had his best ever season and was left behind


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			😅
Just seems like sympathy caps, it's not like either of those are ever going to break into the full England squad, specially Lingard whose ship sailed a long time ago. Maybe he should be looking at potential talent rather than non starters.
Just read that Bamford is 28, I thought he was much younger 😱
		
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in a dark room somewhere Calvert Lewin is crying his eyes out having got injured before this game lol


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## Slime (Sep 5, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Lingard and Bamford, baffling 🤔
		
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Greenwood not in the squad ............................ now that's baffling!
Players will be picked on form, he said.
Yeah, right.


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## Beezerk (Sep 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Greenwood not in the squad ............................ now that's baffling!
Players will be picked on form, he said.
Yeah, right.
		
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I was just about to ask the question, is Greenwood injured? I'm stupified why he isn't starting but he doesn't even seem to be on the bench lol.


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## Slime (Sep 5, 2021)

Has Garcia's leg come off?
Tart.


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## Slime (Sep 5, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I was just about to ask the question, is Greenwood injured? I'm stupified why he isn't starting but he doesn't even seem to be on the bench lol.
		
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He's not even in the squad!


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 5, 2021)

Salah rumoured to be wanting £500k per week to sign a new contract at Liverpool. I can't see any way that Liverpool will agree to pay anywhere near that amount.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mo-salah-liverpool-transfer-news-24909896


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## Swango1980 (Sep 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Greenwood not in the squad ............................ now that's baffling!
Players will be picked on form, he said.
Yeah, right.
		
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Ole indicated him and Southgate agreed not to select Greenwood, as it was in his best interests at this time. I guess they want more time for him to develop at club level. I believe Southgate also said he'd easily be in the squad on form, but it was agreed to not select him at the moment.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Salah rumoured to be wanting £500k per week to sign a new contract at Liverpool. I can't see any way that Liverpool will agree to pay anywhere near that amount.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mo-salah-liverpool-transfer-news-24909896

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Only have to look at the source - same source were stating Henderson won’t be offered a new contract 

Salah won’t ask for that level of wage and will prob get around or just above what VVD has just been offered


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 5, 2021)

What's the point of teams like Andorra being in this competition? England have had 89% possession in the first half and Andorra made a total of 12 successful passes. Is it time to bring in a two tier World Cup and Euros with the poorer teams playing against each other and the better teams playing each other with promotion and relegation between the two tiers? Andorra being in this competition is like letting Colchester play in the Champions League, completely ridiculous. Neither team learns anything from playing against opposition so much stronger/weaker than them.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only have to look at the source - same source were stating Henderson won’t be offered a new contract

Salah won’t ask for that level of wage and will prob get around or just above what VVD has just been offered
		
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He probably thinks he is worth a similar salary to Anthony Martial. He's living in a dreamworld


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			What's the point of teams like Andorra being in this competition? England have had 89% possession in the first half and Andorra made a total of 12 successful passes. Is it time to bring in a two tier World Cup and Euros with the poorer teams playing against each other and the better teams playing each other with promotion and relegation between the two tiers? Andorra being in this competition is like letting Colchester play in the Champions League, completely ridiculous. Neither team learns anything from playing against opposition so much stronger/weaker than them.
		
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England only One up 🤷‍♂️

The two games against England will keep the Andorran FA going financially- remove the smaller countries and you will remove a huge amount of their funding and will prob struggle to host games. 

It wasn’t that long ago that Luxembourg beat Ireland - and San Marino have caused a few shocks


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			England only One up 🤷‍♂️

The two games against England will keep the Andorran FA going financially- remove the smaller countries and you will remove a huge amount of their funding and will prob struggle to host games.

It wasn’t that long ago that Luxembourg beat Ireland - and San Marino have caused a few shocks
		
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England reserve team only 1-0 up. Andorra only interested in defending and keeping the score down, a 3-0 defeat is a good result for them but what does it actually achieve in terms of them improving?. That's why it's a pointless match. Possibly even need three tiers so teams like Andorra and San Marino can play in the third tier and then have a middle and top tier.


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## IanM (Sep 5, 2021)

When did it become compulsory to pass back inside when you get the ball wide?

These sort of games are always dull


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			England reserve team only 1-0 up. Andorra only interested in defending and keeping the score down, a 3-0 defeat is a good result for them but what does it actually achieve in terms of them improving?. That's why it's a pointless match. Possibly even need three tiers so teams like Andorra and San Marino can play in the third tier and then have a middle and top tier.
		
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assume you want to cancel the FA Cup too? whats the point of say Man City reserves against Colchester?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			England reserve team only 1-0 up. Andorra only interested in defending and keeping the score down, a 3-0 defeat is a good result for them but what does it actually achieve in terms of them improving?. That's why it's a pointless match. Possibly even need three tiers so teams like Andorra and San Marino can play in the third tier and then have a middle and top tier.
		
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Maybe you're on to something. You could maybe call it something like The Nations League...


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			assume you want to cancel the FA Cup too? whats the point of say Man City reserves against Colchester? 

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They might as well put out their U18's against us and they'd still win comfortably. 

If the FA Cup was a group stage with 6 teams in it with say Man City, Watford, Cardiff, Bristol City, Colchester and Solihull Moors in a group then yes I would say it should be scrapped.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 5, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Lingard and Bamford, baffling 🤔
		
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It was a nap Lingard would play well.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 5, 2021)

Man Utd will look forward to the League Cup this year, with Lingard on form


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## pauljames87 (Sep 5, 2021)

Why take bamford off? If I was spurs I'd be angry of Kane playing .. especially against hack merchants 

J lingz king of back ups


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2021)

SO Brazil v Argentina has been suspended after 10 minutes. Police and health officials have taken to the pitch to detain the premier league Argentina players who they claim have broken quarantine rules because they lied about having been in the UK in the last 14 days 

I think its Martinez, Buendia and Lo Celso and maybe one more  edit: Romero is the 4th


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			SO Brazil v Argentina has been suspended after 10 minutes. Police and health officials have taken to the pitch to detain the premier league Argentina players who they claim have broken quarantine rules because they lied about having been in the UK in the last 14 days 

I think its Martinez, Buendia and Lo Celso and maybe one more  edit: Romero is the 4th
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1434600534028210179


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2021)

the laughable thing is have you been in the uk in the last 14 days? its not like they can argue it having played in the premier league in that period!!!!


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			SO Brazil v Argentina has been suspended after 10 minutes. Police and health officials have taken to the pitch to detain the premier league Argentina players who they claim have broken quarantine rules because they lied about having been in the UK in the last 14 days 

I think its Martinez, Buendia and Lo Celso and maybe one more  edit: Romero is the 4th
		
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Don't understand why they waited until the 10th minute to do it. As soon as the players walked out for the warm up they could've done the same thing as they'd broken quarantine rules at that point. Or even when they'd been training with their team in the previous few days. Seems like the officials wanted to make it all about them rather than the rule breach.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			the laughable thing is have you been in the uk in the last 14 days? its not like they can argue it having played in the premier league in that period!!!!
		
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Maybe they were watching a repeat of Match of the Day and suddenly saw them on Telly 😲


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## Stuart_C (Sep 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe they were watching a repeat of Match of the Day and suddenly saw them on Telly 😲
		
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Or watched it on twitter 😁😁😁


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 5, 2021)

Will clubs who didn't release players now no longer be in trouble with fifa? It would seem odd if that were to happen given what has happened there.


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## Beezerk (Sep 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1434600534028210179

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Christ, unbelievable. Who is at fault, players for thinking they are above the law or their football governing bodies for allowing it...or both?


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## GB72 (Sep 5, 2021)

Not sure where you go with this one. Deliberate attempt to breach a nation's covid regulations, if that is the case then expulsion from the tournament would be my suggestion (will never happen). Was the Brazilian FA in any way complicit (any obligation to check the covid status of teams playing in their country). Surely you cannot just blame the players, or maybe you can. This could rumble on for a while.


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not sure where you go with this one. Deliberate attempt to breach a nation's covid regulations, if that is the case then expulsion from the tournament would be my suggestion (will never happen). Was the Brazilian FA in any way complicit (any obligation to check the covid status of teams playing in their country). Surely you cannot just blame the players, or maybe you can. This could rumble on for a while.
		
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really does depend on who you believe lol, but this has been muttered about for a few days, there was talk that fifa told brazil they had to play the game when they threatened to not allow argentina to field the 4 players otherwise they would have to forfeit the game, hence the game was allowed to kick off then the police/health dept intervened


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## GB72 (Sep 5, 2021)

Interesting that the BBC website says that the 4 players had already been notified of the issue and were supposed to remain in the hotel pending deportation but went to the ground and played.


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Interesting that the BBC website says that the 4 players had already been notified of the issue and were supposed to remain in the hotel pending deportation but went to the ground and played.
		
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yet fifa had told them to play and that brazil would be stripped of the game if they stopped them playing

lots of authorities think they had jurisdiction until it played out, or until it finally does in the future


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## GB72 (Sep 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			yet fifa had told them to play and that brazil would be stripped of the game if they stopped them playing

lots of authorities think they had jurisdiction until it played out, or until it finally does in the future
		
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How can any sporting body think it has jurisdiction above the national health agency and, by proxy, the government


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			How can any sporting body think it has jurisdiction above the national health agency and, by proxy, the government
		
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have acted above the law for decades, why stop when a pandemic comes to town.........


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 8, 2021)

Kane playing at right back.
He’s been everywhere except where he should be?

where did they get this ref. Some very poor decisions.
He let Glick pinch Walkers neck right in front of him.
They are trying to muscle us but sure we will beat them.
Sterling’s end product poor again. Take him on he’s a donkey with a yellow card.


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## harpo_72 (Sep 8, 2021)

The lady in the analysis Is okay but her English is a little too rough … sorry


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## harpo_72 (Sep 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Kane playing at right back.
He’s been everywhere except where he should be?

where did they get this ref. Some very poor decisions.
He let Glick pinch Walkers neck right in front of him.
They are trying to muscle us but sure we will beat them.
Sterling’s end product poor again. Take him on he’s a donkey with a yellow card.
		
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Walker should have gone to ground and rolled about like he was shot .. or like an Italian


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## Beezerk (Sep 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sterling’s end product poor again. Take him on he’s a donkey with a yellow card.
		
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So frustrating again, trying to be the big man all the time rather than playing his team mates in.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



*Kane playing at right back.
He’s been everywhere except where he should be?*

where did they get this ref. Some very poor decisions.
He let Glick pinch Walkers neck right in front of him.
They are trying to muscle us but sure we will beat them.
Sterling’s end product poor again. Take him on he’s a donkey with a yellow card.
		
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Isn't that what donkeys do....wander all over a field?


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## AmandaJR (Sep 8, 2021)

I want to punch Glik from my settee. Respect to the England players for not rising to the constant niggling.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 8, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Isn't that what donkeys do....wander all over a field?
		
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Even a donkey gets a good kick in once in a while.


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## harpo_72 (Sep 8, 2021)

That was nice


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## chrisd (Sep 8, 2021)

Not bad for a donkey eh?


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## Beezerk (Sep 8, 2021)

Great strike, watch Southgate now, Grealish or Sterling off for another defensive player 🙈


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## Kellfire (Sep 8, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Great strike, watch Southgate now, Grealish or Sterling off for another defensive player 🙈
		
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Or make no subs whatsoever and leave the team looking decidedly leggy going into injury time.


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## Beezerk (Sep 8, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Or make no subs whatsoever and leave the team looking decidedly leggy going into injury time.
		
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Ha ha yes 😅
There are a couple of players in the England team who are just not good enough with the ball at feet and what they do with the ball when they have it. Imo we are a couple of changes from being a seriously good team.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 8, 2021)

Walker ale house defending.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 8, 2021)

Grealish he was past his man ,yes he fouled him but just carry on.
Stopped and claiming to the ref .
Piss poor.

Good chance from our throw on their 18 yard box Pickford very lucky.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 8, 2021)

This England team has a ton of quality, and they flatter Southgate. Keeping him in a job, when a better manager could do a much better job. Him and Ole stealing a living.

What did he expect would happen when he makes ZERO subs, when he could have made up to 5. Plenty of quality and freshness on the bench. England were a yard off the pace at end of game, and Southgate was either oblivious, or scared of hurting someone's feelings by subbing them.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Grealish he was past his man ,yes he fouled him but just carry on.
Stopped and claiming to the ref .
Piss poor.

Good chance from our throw on their 18 yard box Pickford very lucky.
		
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Apparently that’s his strength tho…he wins free kicks.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 8, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Apparently that’s his strength tho…he wins free kicks.
		
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But he didn’t.
The ref never gave it.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			But he didn’t.
The ref never gave it.
		
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That’s what £100m gets you.


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## AmandaJR (Sep 9, 2021)

I'm trying to see Grealish through different eyes now BUT he still looks too much like a prancing pony that flatters to deceive to be worth anything like £100m.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 9, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm trying to see Grealish through different eyes now BUT he still looks too much like a prancing pony that flatters to deceive to be worth anything like £100m.
		
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It was a good deal for Villa ,not sure City could say the same.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 9, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			That’s what £100m gets you.
		
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He’s not worth half that.


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## harpo_72 (Sep 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He’s not worth half that.
		
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Time will tell when the fan boys buy the shirts with his name on …
The ref was appalling last night, and Kane sorted Glik out using the dark arts .. which is a beautiful part of the game, hurting your opponent inside the law is a talent . But should not be called on in this day and age, I like this English sides mentality and the way they deal with poor behaviour.. the final against the Italians was a massive experience.


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## nickjdavis (Sep 9, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm trying to see Grealish through different eyes now BUT he still looks too much like a prancing pony that flatters to deceive to be worth anything like £100m.
		
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He needs to ditch the Alice band, shave his head, look mean and make more of an effort to stay on his feet. His prime reason it seems to me for being on the field is to win free kicks...but there's no point in doing that because we just go 5 yards backwards/sideways with them. Lack of product from the wide men last night was very frustrating...Sterling just didn't seem to want to commit his man at all....and on the rare occasion that he beat him he took three or four touches before being crowded out. 

Our reluctance to cross the ball may have been related to Kane playing most of the match in midfield so there was no focal point to the attack. I don't really like Emma Hayes much but she was spot on when she said he was causing other players to be unsure of where to play and disrupting the shape. Someone needs to tell him to stay up front instead of coming short to the half way line to get the ball off the back four.

Other than that....Poland looked plenty dangerous enough, fast slick passing, good control and movement, put the ball in early when they had the opportunity, took their chance and deserved the draw. No real harm done though in the context of the group and overall qualification.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 9, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			He needs to ditch the Alice band, shave his head, look mean and make more of an effort to stay on his feet. His prime reason it seems to me for being on the field is to win free kicks...but there's no point in doing that because we just go 5 yards backwards/sideways with them. Lack of product from the wide men last night was very frustrating...Sterling just didn't seem to want to commit his man at all....and on the rare occasion that he beat him he took three or four touches before being crowded out. 

Our reluctance to cross the ball may have been related to Kane playing most of the match in midfield so there was no focal point to the attack. I don't really like Emma Hayes much but she was spot on when she said he was causing other players to be unsure of where to play and disrupting the shape. Someone needs to tell him to stay up front instead of coming short to the half way line to get the ball off the back four.

Other than that....Poland looked plenty dangerous enough, fast slick passing, good control and movement, put the ball in early when they had the opportunity, took their chance and deserved the draw. No real harm done though in the context of the group and overall qualification.
		
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Totally agree regarding Kane and his play,either he’s our number 9 or he’s not.
Although when he does come deep his link up play is good.
Sometimes we had 3 out wide left.
Overall though Kane was head and shoulders above Levendoski who up until the last minute did nothing, imagine if that was Kane.

If Grealish is worth 100 million Gazza would be 200, I would like Grealish to play like Gazza getting at defenders and driving forward.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 9, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm trying to see Grealish through different eyes now BUT he still looks too much like a prancing pony that flatters to deceive to be worth anything like £100m.
		
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Tbh I never got the hype during the Euros over him.
The commentators said things like “the stage is set for that man” whilst he was on the bench.
Jack Grealish 🤷‍♂️


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## IanM (Sep 9, 2021)

Maybe his new boss will teach him to keep running until he hears a whistle, or dive and roll around more convincingly. 

I watched this with a Polish Mate.   Was interesting getting his perspective.  At half time he thought they would win, I felt similar.  I was miffed about the equaliser, but would have taken a point at half time.  Was useful to get that team more exposure to a hostile atmosphere.   He said the rest are playing for second place and doesnt get the moaning.  You cant win 5-0 every week, and when England does, the moaners say, it is cos we've only played "whoever."  

Footy fans eh?


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 9, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			He needs to ditch the Alice band, shave his head, look mean and make more of an effort to stay on his feet. His prime reason it seems to me for being on the field is to win free kicks...but there's no point in doing that because we just go 5 yards backwards/sideways with them. Lack of product from the wide men last night was very frustrating...Sterling just didn't seem to want to commit his man at all....and on the rare occasion that he beat him he took three or four touches before being crowded out.

Our reluctance to cross the ball may have been related to Kane playing most of the match in midfield so there was no focal point to the attack. I don't really like Emma Hayes much but she was spot on when she said he was causing other players to be unsure of where to play and disrupting the shape. Someone needs to tell him to stay up front instead of coming short to the half way line to get the ball off the back four.

Other than that....Poland looked plenty dangerous enough, fast slick passing, good control and movement, put the ball in early when they had the opportunity, took their chance and deserved the draw. No real harm done though in the context of the group and overall qualification.
		
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I do wonder what Southgate is saying to Kane.
Plenty of times the wingers cut back because there was nobody in the box.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I do wonder what Southgate is saying to Kane.
Plenty of times the wingers cut back because there was nobody in the box.
		
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Last year Ancelotti got hold of Calvert Lewin and told him to stay in the box, aim to be in the box as much as possible. Goals came. Benitez has said the same and also instructed the team to whip balls in quickly, don't even look to see if he or Richarlison is there. The point being, they should be. Goals are coming, chances definitely are. I'd like Southgate to have that conversation with Kane. No point having great crossers of the ball, great situations, over lapping wingers etc if the penalty area doesn't have an attacker in it. Kane is doing what old strikers do, drop deep. He needs kicking higher up the pitch. (I seem to remember we had this same conversation in the Euro's but it is just as valid now)


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## Swango1980 (Sep 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I do wonder what Southgate is saying to Kane.
Plenty of times the wingers cut back because there was nobody in the box.
		
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On the flip side, he can be very effective at dropping deep, especially when he has pacy players running past him. But, I suppose that only works if those players are willing to run in on goal themselves, either directly, or have another midfielder charge into the box for them to cross to. If not, then you might as well get Kane to stay in and around the box, and allow the midfielders to find the spaces in midfield.

I'd imagine Soutgate told him "don't worry, whatever happens, you'll not be subbed". I reckon he said that to all the players. I bet their club managers were delighted.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			On the flip side, he can be very effective at dropping deep, especially when he has pacy players running past him. But, I suppose that only works if those players are willing to run in on goal themselves, either directly, or have another midfielder charge into the box for them to cross to. If not, then you might as well get Kane to stay in and around the box, and allow the midfielders to find the spaces in midfield.

I'd imagine Soutgate told him "don't worry, whatever happens, you'll not be subbed". I reckon he said that to all the players. I bet their club managers were delighted.
		
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There is no Frank Lampard, Tim Cahill, Bryan Robson etc in that team. You are dead right but that style doesn't work with the current other players in the team.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 9, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Last year Ancelotti got hold of Calvert Lewin and told him to stay in the box, aim to be in the box as much as possible. Goals came. Benitez has said the same and also instructed the team to whip balls in quickly, don't even look to see if he or Richarlison is there. The point being, they should be. Goals are coming, chances definitely are. I'd like Southgate to have that conversation with Kane. No point having great crossers of the ball, great situations, over lapping wingers etc if the penalty area doesn't have an attacker in it. Kane is doing what old strikers do, drop deep. He needs kicking higher up the pitch. (I seem to remember we had this same conversation in the Euro's but it is just as valid now)
		
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The only quality crosser is Shaw.
Sterling is shocking with his final ball and his goals just mask his paltry contribution to the game.
Like Kane last night the only thing he did was score, and sort out Glik.
imo Mount and Grealish just got in Shaws way a lot of the time.
Mount played well but never created much.
I still can’t belive we made no subs to kill off the game , from a defensive minded manager that was a bad mistake.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			On the flip side, he can be very effective at dropping deep, especially when he has pacy players running past him. But, I suppose that only works if those players are willing to run in on goal themselves, either directly, or have another midfielder charge into the box for them to cross to. If not, then you might as well get Kane to stay in and around the box, and allow the midfielders to find the spaces in midfield.

I'd imagine Soutgate told him "don't worry, whatever happens, you'll not be subbed". I reckon he said that to all the players. I bet their club managers were delighted.
		
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Sterling had two men to beat because the CB didn’t have to worry about Kane.
He was so deep the two CB had quite a easy game imo.
Glik started pushing forward just to get in the game.
But what a prima Donna he is.


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## nickjdavis (Sep 9, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			. Benitez has said the same and also instructed the team to whip balls in quickly, don't even look to see if he or Richarlison is there. The point being, they should be. Goals are coming, chances definitely are. I'd like Southgate to have that conversation with Kane. No point having great crossers of the ball, great situations, over lapping wingers etc if the penalty area doesn't have an attacker in it.)
		
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This is very valid...its like a self fulfilling prophecy....the balls don't come in early because no one is there and no-one bothers to be there because they don't think the ball is coming in and they hang back for a cut back or for the ball to be recycled back across the midfield/back four. Get the balls in, cause the defence some panic, maybe a scuffed clearance will bounce kindly for us....even if it doesnt, someone might just catch on and think...hey I'd better be in there because the ball is coming!!!


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## Rlburnside (Sep 9, 2021)

So FIFA have come up with a new idea to play the World Cup every 2 years hopefully will never happen but how disappointing is it that Arsene Wenger is backing the idea he who complained that his players were tired and playing to much.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 9, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			So FIFA have come up with a new idea to play the World Cup every 2 years hopefully will never happen but how disappointing is it that Arsene Wenger is backing the idea he who complained that his players were tired and playing to much.
		
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Tbh I'm all for the idea if we scrap the euros and just do the world cup 

World cup is the best football comp on the planet (for international football) and some players miss out through injury then it's 4 years until next one so every 2 years gives the best their chance 

Scrap the euros, Copa America, African cup of Nations .. just do the world cup every 2 years but go a step further.. automatic qualifications, straight knock out no group stages .. like a month long fa cup


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 9, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			So FIFA have come up with a new idea to play the World Cup every 2 years hopefully will never happen but how disappointing is it that Arsene Wenger is backing the idea he who complained that his players were tired and playing to much.
		
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For me the continual expansion of the WC has already devalued it and doubling the frequency would only diminish it further. 

Just another sop to the broadcasters and totally flies in the face of those who have previously complained that top players are being asked to play too often.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 9, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			So FIFA have come up with a new idea to play the World Cup every 2 years hopefully will never happen but how disappointing is it that Arsene Wenger is backing the idea he who complained that his players were tired and playing to much.
		
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Typical FIFA trying to stamp on the other governing bodies 

The likes of Euros give a lot of other smaller nations the chance to show they can do it on the bigger stage - Denmark winning in 92 , Greece in 04 , Wales getting to the Semis , Iceland doing well


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## Rlburnside (Sep 9, 2021)

Yes it’s getting farther and farther from the people that matter the most the fans. 

European leagues will have to stop for 4-5 weeks just to accommodate a corrupt World Cup in the Middle East.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 9, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes it’s getting farther and farther from the people that matter the most the fans.

European leagues will have to stop for 4-5 weeks just to accommodate a corrupt World Cup in the Middle East.
		
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They will dress it up as “growing the game” but it’s clearly just about the money and can’t beat a bit of sportswashing

The World Cup is special - it’s starting to get a bit silly with more teams - every two years will dilute it even more


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## Kellfire (Sep 9, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Tbh I'm all for the idea if we scrap the euros and just do the world cup

World cup is the best football comp on the planet (for international football) and some players miss out through injury then it's 4 years until next one so every 2 years gives the best their chance

Scrap the euros, Copa America, African cup of Nations .. just do the world cup every 2 years but go a step further.. automatic qualifications, straight knock out no group stages .. like a month long fa cup
		
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So that only about ten teams ever have a chance of winning an international tournament?

Not for me. This is an awful idea designed to double FIFA’s income.


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## IanM (Sep 9, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Not for me. This is an awful idea designed to double FIFA’s income.
		
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Indeed.  But that's the basis for everything they do.


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## Orikoru (Sep 10, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			For me the continual expansion of the WC has already devalued it and doubling the frequency would only diminish it further.

Just another sop to the broadcasters and totally flies in the face of those who have previously complained that top players are being asked to play too often.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. It had some prestige when it was every four years and only the 32 best teams. They've already ruined the format by expanding it to 45 teams or whatever it is, making it more frequent would just send it further down the toilet. It seems like they've never heard the phrase 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.


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## sunshine (Sep 10, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Overall though Kane was head and shoulders above Levendoski who up until the last minute did nothing, imagine if that was Kane.
		
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I must have been watching a different match. I thought Levandowski was outstanding. He was just lacking the quality service. The way he held up the ball and brought others into the game was a lesson to Kane.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 10, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I must have been watching a different match. I thought Levandowski was outstanding. He was just lacking the quality service. The way he held up the ball and brought others into the game was a lesson to Kane.
		
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If No:9 drops deeper it is usually to create space in behind for others to exploit.

Unfortunately unless Sterling made that move England didn't take that opportunity. 

Neither Rice nor Philips are that sort of player and Grealish and Mount seemed content to keep out of the box.


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## sunshine (Sep 10, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Not for me. This is an awful idea designed to double FIFA’s income.
		
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Yes it's just a money grab. 

They are thinking about the markets in America and Asia who don't have a quality tournament like the Euros.

I used to find the Euros better than the WC because all 16 teams were competitive and you didn't have dross like Panama and Saudi Arabia. But the expansion of the Euros to 24 teams has diluted that a bit now.

Very disappointed that a football purist like Wenger is backing this. Selling his soul.


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## sunshine (Sep 10, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			If No:9 drops deeper it is usually to create space in behind for others to exploit.

Unfortunately unless Sterling made that move England didn't take that opportunity.

Neither Rice nor Philips are that sort of player and Grealish and Mount seemed content to keep out of the box.
		
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Agreed. I still thought Levandowski was the most classy player on the pitch.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 10, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			If No:9 drops deeper it is usually to create space in behind for others to exploit.

Unfortunately unless Sterling made that move England didn't take that opportunity.

Neither Rice nor Philips are that sort of player and Grealish and Mount seemed content to keep out of the box.
		
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Got to wonder why Southgate hasn't sorted it out. It happens match after match so why aren't the coaches fixing it?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 10, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Agreed. I still thought Levandowski was the most classy player on the pitch.
		
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Certainly agree with that.

I know it sounds ridiculous but apart from the goal Kane was sadly ineffective by comparison.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 10, 2021)

Villa are thread bare this weekend after the International break... and we play Chelsea.... Greeaaaatttttt


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2021)

So, who has put Ronaldo in their fantasy football team?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			So, who has put Ronaldo in their fantasy football team?
		
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Playing for Utd, he is not going in mine . I have a strict code, usually leaves me near the bottom but I sleep easily at nights


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## Orikoru (Sep 10, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			So, who has put Ronaldo in their fantasy football team?
		
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No, I've gone for Kane, since he's back and scoring regularly already. No guarantee Ronaldo will start the next game. Also you've got those two or Lukaku to choose from anyway, so I feel I will rotate between the three of them as and when across the season.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 10, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			No, I've gone for Kane, since he's back and scoring regularly already. No guarantee Ronaldo will start the next game. Also you've got those two or Lukaku to choose from anyway, so I feel I will rotate between the three of them as and when across the season.
		
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Ive taken the Bruno and Salah in midfield approach with Vardy up top!


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## Kellfire (Sep 10, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Ive taken the Bruno and Salah in midfield approach with Vardy up top!
		
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Bruno and Ronaldo don’t play well together at all for Portugal. If they don’t find a way to work, it could be tough times ahead for Bruno.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 10, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Bruno and Ronaldo don’t play well together at all for Portugal. If they don’t find a way to work, it could be tough times ahead for Bruno.
		
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Bruno will start every game though, Ronaldo wont! They'll rest him as the season progresses


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Bruno and Ronaldo don’t play well together at all for Portugal. If they don’t find a way to work, it could be tough times ahead for Bruno.
		
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Hopefully daily training will help them. They'll need to discuss this amongst themselves though, I do not see Ole being the one to gel them together tactically.


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## Kellfire (Sep 10, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Hopefully daily training will help them. They'll need to discuss this amongst themselves though, I do not see Ole being the one to gel them together tactically.
		
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Oh hello no, Ole won’t have a clue. Ole looks in awe of Ronaldo. Ferguson, for example, was in awe of no one. Not even Busby, IMO, though he was the closest.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Ive taken the Bruno and Salah in midfield approach with Vardy up top!
		
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Interesting this year. Many years, every team needs to have one or 2 players. But, with Salah, Ronaldo, Bruno, Lukaku, Kane, DeBruyne (when fit again) it'll make for interesting selections. Not to mention your Vardy's, Son's and Sterlings just below that level (although I can see Sterling being on the bench a lot)


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Playing for Utd, he is not going in mine . I have a strict code, usually leaves me near the bottom but I sleep easily at nights 

Click to expand...

I typically go for a lot of Liverpool players. I want them to lose, so I'm happy if they do. If they do not, it is a consolation that their players may get me fantasy points. However, I've risked putting Ronaldo, Bruno and Greenwood attack and praying Utd score goals


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Bruno will start every game though, Ronaldo wont! They'll rest him as the season progresses
		
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I very much doubt Ole would be brave enough to rest Ronaldo. Ronaldo will be demanding to play as often as possible, to add to his career goal tally. And Ole has a habit of running players to exhaustion anyway


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Agreed. I still thought Levandowski was the most classy player on the pitch.
		
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Yes I have always thought he would look good in a Liverpool shirt.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I typically go for a lot of Liverpool players. I want them to lose, so I'm happy if they do. If they do not, it is a consolation that their players may get me fantasy points. However, I've risked putting Ronaldo, Bruno and Greenwood attack and praying Utd score goals
		
Click to expand...

I can't bring myself to have any utd or liverpool players. Salah and Fernandes have hurt me badly, along with a select few others 😭. Still can't do it though 😄.

Fair play to you, you have covered both angles 👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I have always thought he would look good in a Liverpool shirt.
		
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He would score a lot of goals in your team, a real finisher.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He would score a lot of goals in your team, a real finisher.
		
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Yes he would .
But Phil will be along soon to tell me Klopp dosnt play like that.
But I think he should. It’s the one thing we are missing imo.

I wonder at his age would he fancy three years here. I hope so.
Wonderful footballer.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes he would .
But Phil will be along soon to tell me Klopp dosnt play like that.
But I think he should. It’s the one thing we are missing imo.

I wonder at his age would he fancy three years here. I hope so.
Wonderful footballer.
		
Click to expand...

You create so many chances, don't convert anywhere near as many as you should. Someone like him would fill his boots. There aren't that many pure strikers anymore but Lewandowski is one of them.


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## Cherry13 (Sep 10, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I typically go for a lot of Liverpool players. I want them to lose, so I'm happy if they do. If they do not, it is a consolation that their players may get me fantasy points. However, I've risked putting Ronaldo, Bruno and Greenwood attack and praying Utd score goals
		
Click to expand...

Haha, as a Newcastle fan I have the opposite approach.  I regularly bet against them, win win in my eyes.  But to be fair my bets come in more often than them winning.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes he would .
But Phil will be along soon to tell me Klopp dosnt play like that.
But I think he should. It’s the one thing we are missing imo.

I wonder at his age would he fancy three years here. I hope so.
Wonderful footballer.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but he also said Thiago WOULD NOT  be signing for Liverpool 🤷‍♂️😂
He’d soon change his tune if you signed Levandowski.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You create so many chances, don't convert anywhere near as many as you should. Someone like him would fill his boots. There aren't that many pure strikers anymore but Lewandowski is one of them.
		
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Exactly .


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah but he also said Thiago WOULD NOT  be signing for Liverpool 🤷‍♂️😂
He’d soon change his tune if you signed Levandowski.
		
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Tbh he’s right Klopp dosnt play a central striker.
Firmino is more a midfielder / link man but his finishing is not ver good imo.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Tbh he’s right Klopp dosnt play a central striker.
Firmino is more a midfielder / link man but his finishing is not ver good imo.
		
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Trust me if Klopp could get Levandowski he’d snap your hand off & make him fit into the team.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Trust me if Klopp could get Levandowski he’d snap your hand off & make him fit into the team.
		
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I would go and pick him up myself he can stay in my loft if he wants.
Wonder if he plays golf.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 10, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would go and pick him up myself he can stay in my loft if he wants.
Wonder if he plays golf.
		
Click to expand...

It’s not like he’s a striker that just relies on balls being crossed in to him,he’d fit into most teams IMO.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			It’s not like he’s a striker that just relies on balls being crossed in to him,he’d fit into most teams IMO.
		
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Yes I agree.
But I think we need a proper finisher 
We score goals but we miss so many chances.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 11, 2021)

My goodness that team


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## Kellfire (Sep 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 38431


My goodness that team
		
Click to expand...

That defensive midfield though. Yikes.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 11, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			That defensive midfield though. Yikes.
		
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Agreed however you will outscore them for sure lol


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## Slime (Sep 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			My goodness that team
		
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................ and I don't think it's on live television!!

There has to be another way.  🤔


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 11, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			That defensive midfield though. Yikes.
		
Click to expand...

They are playing Newcastle, they don't need one.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 11, 2021)

Didn’t expect Ronaldo to start.
Has any other signing had this much anticipation in the Prem League?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			................ and I don't think it's on live television!!

There has to be another way.  🤔
		
Click to expand...

Isn't that because was already agreed before he signed


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## Slime (Sep 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Isn't that because was already agreed before he signed
		
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I don't think anyone is allowed to show a Saturday 3.00pm kick off game live in GB.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			I don't think anyone is allowed to show a Saturday 3.00pm kick off game live in GB.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but the games were selected before hand and moved like all games are.

All games are 15:00 Saturday when first announced bar last game of season


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## Slime (Sep 11, 2021)

It was never in doubt ............................... welcome home!


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## Swango1980 (Sep 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 38431


My goodness that team
		
Click to expand...

Great Ronaldo scored just before break. But, listening on Soccer Saturday, sounds like it has been even in terms of chances. Ole needs to step up now and get that team playing to its potential.


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## Slime (Sep 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Great Ronaldo scored just before break. But, listening on Soccer Saturday, sounds like it has been even in terms of chances. Ole needs to step up now and get that team playing to its potential.
		
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Soccer Saturday have got it wrong.
Utd 70% possession, 15 shots (3 on target) vs 6 shots (0 on target).
Newcastle were warned for time wasting after just 23 minutes!


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## pauljames87 (Sep 11, 2021)

One of few times under sir David that I'm disappointed

Zouma 30 million top 6 defender on bench for Dawson who's been at fault for majority of our goals let in thks season


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## Swango1980 (Sep 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			Soccer Saturday have got it wrong.
Utd 70% possession, 15 shots (3 on target) vs 6 shots (0 on target).
Newcastle were warned for time wasting after just 23 minutes!
		
Click to expand...

Possession means nothing these days. Newcastle had a couple of absolute sitters, but either missed target or didn't pass to guy who had an open goal.

They've equalised now anyway.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Possession means nothing these days. Newcastle had a couple of absolute sitters, but either missed target or didn't pass to guy who had an open goal.

They've equalised now anyway.
		
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And now Ronaldo again aha


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## Swango1980 (Sep 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Possession means nothing these days. Newcastle had a couple of absolute sitters, but either missed target or didn't pass to guy who had an open goal.

They've equalised now anyway.
		
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Now Ronaldo makes it 2


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## Slime (Sep 11, 2021)

£12.5M ................................. are you sure!!


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## Slime (Sep 11, 2021)

Arsenal fans singing "We are staying up".


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 11, 2021)

Any other non Utd fans actually wanting Ronaldo to complete the hat trick? 😬


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## Slime (Sep 11, 2021)

What a screamer!


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## Fade and Die (Sep 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Any other non Utd fans actually wanting Ronaldo to complete the hat trick? 😬
		
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After having a £50 bet with my London Red mate that Ronaldo won’t score 20 premier league goals this season that’s a big fat NO!😂


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## pokerjoke (Sep 11, 2021)

Slime said:



View attachment 38433


£12.5M ................................. are you sure!!
		
Click to expand...

Hey Slime do you think this kid Ronaldo is going to be any good


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Hey Slime do you think this kid Ronaldo is going to be any good

Click to expand...

Nah he’s a flat track bully.
That Lingards got potential tho 😏


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Any other non Utd fans actually wanting Ronaldo to complete the hat trick? 😬
		
Click to expand...

Ermmm, NO .

That's similar to would I like to see Liverpool win another title


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## ger147 (Sep 11, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			After having a £50 bet with my London Red mate that Ronaldo won’t score 20 premier league goals this season that’s a big fat NO!😂
		
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You clearly don't like money. I hope your mate invests his £50 windfall wisely.


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## Slime (Sep 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Hey Slime do you think this kid Ronaldo is going to be any good

Click to expand...

I think he needs a bit of time to ease his way into the English style of football.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Nah he’s a flat track bully.
That Lingards got potential tho 😏
		
Click to expand...

Lingard needs regular game time and he will be an asset, unfortunately down in the pecking order.
Got something about him I’ve always liked.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 11, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ermmm, NO .
*
That's similar to would I like to see Liverpool win another title *

Click to expand...

It’s not even close to being that bad mate


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## Slime (Sep 11, 2021)

Paul Merson has just said that Ronaldo has scored two goals 200 times.
He said "That's 200 doubles, I'm in AA And I've not even had that many!"
Priceless.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			No, I've gone for Kane, since he's back and scoring regularly already. No guarantee Ronaldo will start the next game. Also you've got those two or Lukaku to choose from anyway, so I feel I will rotate between the three of them as and when across the season.
		
Click to expand...

That hasn't gone well this week.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That hasn't gone well this week. 

Click to expand...

Not as bad as me, I put Antonio in my team


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## pauljames87 (Sep 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not as bad as me, I put Antonio in my team
		
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I made him captain


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## Piece (Sep 11, 2021)

Second best to Wolves today, who deserved their victory. We had a team that was capable of serving up vintage steak and chips, instead we got luke warm porridge.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 11, 2021)

Piece said:



			Second best to Wolves today, who deserved their victory. We had a team that was capable of serving up vintage steak and chips, instead we got luke warm porridge.
		
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Probably our poorest game of the season as well, so happy to finally get off the mark. No booze in the away end though, what's that all about?


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## pokerjoke (Sep 11, 2021)

Where have all the Liverpool fans gone.
Quiet as mouses


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Where have all the Liverpool fans gone.
Quiet as mouses 

Click to expand...

Blimey, I'd be more concerned about the lack of glazers out protesting than worrying  about liverpool fans 🤣🤣🤣

I suppose a couple of wins and signing a 36yr old ex player is more important🙄


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Blimey, I'd be more concerned about the lack of glazers out protesting than worrying  about liverpool fans 🤣🤣🤣

I suppose a couple of wins and signing a 36yr old ex player is more important🙄
		
Click to expand...

Think the #FSGOUT protests have taken over looking at twitter lately 😂😂


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Where have all the Liverpool fans gone.
Quiet as mouses 

Click to expand...

We havent taken a 2 year sabbatical like you did when your side were struggling and we won the CL and league.

Get back under your rock, yer fool.

Fair weather fans are the worst.

PS Its mice, not mouses.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			We havent taken a 2 year sabbatical like you did when your side were struggling and we won the CL and league.

Get back under your rock, yer fool.

Fair weather fans are the worst.

PS Its mice, not mouses.

Click to expand...

Calling out fans after 4 games


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 12, 2021)

Watching motd this morning, what about the take out of Zaha 😱. Total thuggery and should have been a red for me. Luckily the spurs player lacked a brain and got his second yellow shortly after to see justice served.

I was in my car after the game was played in real time. The plank that is Jonathan Pearce interviewed Nuno Santo and was only interested in getting him to moan about the red card. Question after question looking for the whine. To his great credit he batted away each question with class. Fair play to him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Watching motd this morning, what about the take out of Zaha 😱. Total thuggery and should have been a red for me. Luckily the spurs player lacked a brain and got his second yellow shortly after to see justice served.

I was in my car after the game was played in real time. The plank that is Jonathan Pearce interviewed Nuno Santo and was only interested in getting him to moan about the red card. Question after question looking for the whine. To his great credit he batted away each question with class. Fair play to him.
		
Click to expand...

The tackle was just a yellow - he could have got a second yellow for retaliation after Zaha reacted - Zaha also could have got a red for his reaction and hands to the face


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## Slime (Sep 12, 2021)




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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The tackle was just a yellow - he could have got a second yellow for retaliation after Zaha reacted - Zaha also could have got a red for his reaction and hands to the face
		
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It's a judgement call but I thought it was more brutal than a yellow. Saying that, your scenario of yellow for the barge and yellow for the handbags would have been fair as well.

Yellow for Zaha was sufficient.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a judgement call but I thought it was more brutal than a yellow. Saying that, your scenario of yellow for the barge and yellow for the handbags would have been fair as well.

Yellow for Zaha was sufficient.
		
Click to expand...

Think it should be red it’s football not rugby.
It’s stopping flair players playing imo with thuggery.
But the second yellow ? I thought he backed out of the tackle but had already gone to ground.
Palace player just went over him .
Stupid boy.


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## chrisd (Sep 12, 2021)

Anyone seen Orikoru since yesterday ??


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2021)

Just seen the goals from the man United game 

Ronaldo is going to score a lot this season 

Nice to see lingard score 

Good going forward just need a defensive midfielder .. worrying for us lol


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That hasn't gone well this week. 

Click to expand...

Tell me about it.


Swango1980 said:



			Not as bad as me, I put Antonio in my team
		
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Yep, did that as well. 😑


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## chrisd (Sep 12, 2021)

No worries Orikoru is alive and well - more than his team is!

Eagleeeeees 😁😁😁


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## arnieboy (Sep 12, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not as bad as me, I put Antonio in my team
		
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Antonio got me 52 points for the last two games but with -2 this week he can endure the bench.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

This game should be over by now.
Great goal but our finishing is poor again.
Leeds are wide open.
But they look dangerous on the break.


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## Piece (Sep 12, 2021)

What at open half that was. Liverpool should out of sight


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

This is great enjoyable football from both teams


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## Kellfire (Sep 12, 2021)

Harvey Elliott


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

No - not the young lad 😢

Doesnt look good at all for him


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## Kellfire (Sep 12, 2021)

Fingers crossed it’s “just” a dislocated ankle. 

Think the ref has been swayed by the injury there.


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## Piece (Sep 12, 2021)

Speedy recovery for Harvey E. Good that he was clapping at the end.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 12, 2021)

Struijk sent off for the outcome of the challenge rather than the challenge itself. Fingers crossed the injury isn't as bad as it looks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

That’s good to see him clapping as he went off - haven’t seen the challenge again and didn’t seem a red card one


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Fingers crossed it’s “just” a dislocated ankle.

Think the ref has been swayed by the injury there.
		
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Yes how can the ref go from playing on to a red card.
Shocking reffing.
Hope the lads ok.


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## Kellfire (Sep 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes how can the ref go from playing on to a red card.
Shocking reffing.
Hope the lads ok.
		
Click to expand...

And claimed he was always going to send him off, too? Makes no sense.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			And claimed he was always going to send him off, too? Makes no sense.
		
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It's because he's lying and knows he's protected and won't have to explain his decision publicly.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

Good to hear the Leeds fans being classy as ever 😡


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## Piece (Sep 12, 2021)

How has Mane not got a hat-trick today? In fact, how has he not even scored today?


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## Kellfire (Sep 12, 2021)

Living in Leeds, I hear a lot of talk about their team and it’s amazing how they have elevated some players in their minds to a level they simply aren’t at. Ayling, Dallas, Bamford, Harrison and Phillips regularly get talked about as players who could get into the top teams in the country without a hint of sarcasm. What they are is brilliant professionals who will adhere rigidly to a system but top class players they are not. 

And don’t get me started on the love in for Bielsa. There’s a reason he’s not actually been that successful a manager.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Piece said:



			How has Mane not got a hat-trick today? In fact, how has he not even scored today?
		
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Because he’s a crap finisher.
Scores good goals but misses lots .
Imagine what a good finisher would have scored here today.?


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Living in Leeds, I hear a lot of talk about their team and it’s amazing how they have elevated some players in their minds to a level they simply aren’t at. Ayling, Dallas, Bamford, Harrison and Phillips regularly get talked about as players who could get into the top teams in the country without a hint of sarcasm. What they are is brilliant professionals who will adhere rigidly to a system but top class players they are not.

And don’t get me started on the love in for Bielsa. There’s a reason he’s not actually been that successful a manager.
		
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Yes just as well we havnt had our shooting boots on.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 12, 2021)

Speedy recovery to H Elliot
Playing so well as well 
Refs had a mare


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Because he’s a crap finisher.
Scores good goals but misses lots .
Imagine what a good finisher would have scored here today.?
		
Click to expand...

Shall we refer back to our Lewandovski discussion from earlier in the week 🤔😀


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## pokerjoke (Sep 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Living in Leeds, I hear a lot of talk about their team and it’s amazing how they have elevated some players in their minds to a level they simply aren’t at. Ayling, Dallas, Bamford, Harrison and Phillips regularly get talked about as players who could get into the top teams in the country without a hint of sarcasm. What they are is brilliant professionals who will adhere rigidly to a system but top class players they are not. 

And don’t get me started on the love in for Bielsa. There’s a reason he’s not actually been that successful a manager.
		
Click to expand...

I said Bielsa last week is nieve going all out attack every week without any defensive nouse.
Will score goals but will also get battered.


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## Piece (Sep 12, 2021)

That was 0-7 disguised as 0-3. Leeds more open than a 24hr service station.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

Shame about the injury as the game was enjoyable until then, can only hope it’s not too serious as he has started the season so well , shocking from a group of the leeds fans and their chants but it’s expected from some football fans these days 

Mo carrying on as normal and great to see Mane on the score sheet


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Shall we refer back to our Lewandovski discussion from earlier in the week 🤔😀
		
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I have been saying it for years .
But it’s mostly other Liverpool fans that disagree with me.
I can understand their point as we havnt done to bad lately.
But this shows our finishing is not top class.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			It's because he's lying and knows he's protected and won't have to explain his decision publicly.
		
Click to expand...

Watched the tackle again.
It’s one of them where he’s over the top to try and win possession instead of just playing the ball out of play.
But if you catch the standing foot of the other player it looks bad.
Never a red but these type of tackles need looking at imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

Never a red card tackle and they will prob rescind that


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## BrianM (Sep 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Never a red card tackle and they will prob rescind that
		
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Can they rescind red cards?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 12, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Can they rescind red cards?
		
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Yes, they did for Son a while back.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 12, 2021)

Never a red and no way did he go to hurt the lad.
Good performance move on he will recover quickly hopefully and come back soon.
Didn’t help Klopp coming on the pitch getting in the refs grill.
Leeds way to open.
Not a bad game between the battle of 5th to 10th clubs


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Can they rescind red cards?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah - they did when Son was given a red

Bit of class from Klopp with the sky reporter trying desperately for him to react


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yeah - they did when Son was given a red

Bit of class from Klopp with the sky reporter trying desperately for him to react
		
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Yes but I wonder what the Leeds fan behind the dugout said to upset him so much.
I can guess it wasn’t hope he’s ok


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Watched the tackle again.
It’s one of them where he’s over the top to try and win possession instead of just playing the ball out of play.
But if you catch the standing foot of the other player it looks bad.
Never a red but these type of tackles need looking at imo.
		
Click to expand...

Strange, aren't you normally the one saying any tackle resulting in a serious injury should be a red, e.g. Son on Gomes?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Watched the tackle again.
It’s one of them where he’s over the top to try and win possession instead of just playing the ball out of play.
But if you catch the standing foot of the other player it looks bad.
Never a red but these type of tackles need looking at imo.
		
Click to expand...

You wanted a Norwich player sent off a few weeks ago for a tactical foul, today it wasn't a red. I can't take you serious anymore.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			You wanted a Norwich player sent off a few weeks ago for a tactical foul, today it wasn't a red. I can't take you serious anymore.
		
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He tried to win the ball .
The Norwich player didn’t he just hacked Jotta down from behind.
If you can’t see the difference.???
Have you ever taken anything I say serious .
All you do is play the poster because I don’t agree with everything you say.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Strange, aren't you normally the one saying any tackle resulting in a serious injury should be a red, e.g. Son on Gomes?
		
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Son was a deliberate scyth to bring Gomes down.
At least the Leeds player went for the ball.
There is a difference.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but I wonder what the Leeds fan behind the dugout said to upset him so much.
I can guess it wasn’t hope he’s ok
		
Click to expand...

Well prob along what they were chanting as he was being carried off


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## fundy (Sep 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Where have all the Liverpool fans gone.
Quiet as mouses 

Click to expand...


seems like theyre back..... almost as if they werent playing yesterday lol


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Strange, aren't you normally the one saying any tackle resulting in a serious injury should be a red, e.g. Son on Gomes?
		
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You want to show me where I said “the injury  dictates the card”
I said a “deliberate foul not going for the ball.”


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			seems like theyre back..... almost as if they werent playing yesterday lol
		
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Nobody was playing yesterday


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

Looks like Elliott was just a dislocated ankle - no break and it’s been put back in quickly so it will be down to the ligaments and how badly they are damaged , 🤞he is back within a couple of months


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like Elliott was just a dislocated ankle - no break and it’s been put back in quickly so it will be down to the ligaments and how badly they are damaged , 🤞he is back within a couple of months
		
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Not sure if that’s good or bad news.
A clean break is sometimes better.
Just hope it’s not bad thing.


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## Kellfire (Sep 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure if that’s good or bad news.
A clean break is sometimes better.
Just hope it’s not bad thing.
		
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It’s good news. A break is very rarely better than a dislocation.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He tried to win the ball .
The Norwich player didn’t he just hacked Jotta down from behind.
If you can’t see the difference.???
Have you ever taken anything I say serious .
All you do is play the poster because I don’t agree with everything you say.
		
Click to expand...

Yes he did but it was dangerous and Wreckless.

I'm not saying he  deliberately went to hurt Elliot, totally the opposite infact but when any player attempts  tackle and is late like that its a red card.

I did until I realised you talk tripe.

Play the poster?? Isn't that the whole point of a forum to respond to posts?


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes he did but it was dangerous and Wreckless.

I'm not saying he  deliberately went to hurt Elliot, totally the opposite infact *but when any player attempts  tackle and is late like that its a red card.*

I did until I realised you talk tripe.

Play the poster?? Isn't that the whole point of a forum to respond to posts?
		
Click to expand...

Are we still talking about the tackle today by the Leeds player? He wasn't late, he won the ball and to me it looked like it was his follow through with his other leg that did the damage. I think it will get rescinded and that the ref only sent the player off because of the injury not because of the tackle. He was letting play go on until he saw Salah's reaction so obviously didn't think it was that bad.


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## Slime (Sep 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like Elliott was *just a dislocated ankle - no break and it’s been put back in quickly* so it will be down to the ligaments and how badly they are damaged , 🤞he is back within a couple of months
		
Click to expand...

Jeez Phil, that hurts my ankle just reading it!!
I hope he makes a speedy recovery, he looks to have a proper future.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437121690086125571


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Are we still talking about the tackle today by the Leeds player? He wasn't late, he won the ball and to me it looked like it was his follow through with his other leg that did the damage. I think it will get rescinded and that the ref only sent the player off because of the injury not because of the tackle. He was letting play go on until he saw Salah's reaction so obviously didn't think it was that bad.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah. It was a bad tackle regardless. I'm all for good strong tackling but that isn't acceptable. From my team aswell.

It was that bad sky haven't shown it again. 

PS. I only watched it on twitter😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah. It was a bad tackle regardless. I'm all for good strong tackling but that isn't acceptable. From my team aswell.

It was that bad sky haven't shown it again.

PS. I only watched it on twitter😉
		
Click to expand...

Sky showed it again and stopped it before showing the ankle being dislocated - the player got the ball clean. From that replay it certainly didn’t look at red card tackle


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Sky showed it again* and stopped it before showing the ankle being dislocated - the player got the ball clean. From that replay it certainly didn’t look at red card tackle
		
Click to expand...

Twitter never 😉🤣🤣


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## BiMGuy (Sep 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sky showed it again and stopped it before showing the ankle being dislocated - the player got the ball clean. From that replay it certainly didn’t look at red card tackle
		
Click to expand...

It wasn't even a foul.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I said Bielsa last week is nieve going all out attack every week without any defensive nouse.
Will score goals but will also get battered.
		
Click to expand...

Is that nouse, or nouses?

Nice to see the 4 season wonder get to 100 premiership goals quicker than all but 6-7 others. Hope Elliott recovers quickly.

I was starting to think that Mane had 20K on 2-0 at one point.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I said Bielsa last week is nieve going all out attack every week without any defensive nouse.
Will score goals but will also get battered.
		
Click to expand...

But it isn't games against Liverpool, Chelsea, City, United etc that will define their season. It's the games against the bottom clubs and the other clubs in the expected 8th to 14th positions that will do that. Why not give it a go against the big boys? It worked for them last year when they held Liverpool to a 1-1 draw. As a neutral I'd far rather see Leeds giving it a go every week than West Brom, Burnley or Fulham sitting back on the edge of their own penalty area, waiting to be beaten and hoping that it's only 1-0 or 2-0 rather than a real pasting.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes he did but it was dangerous and Wreckless.

I'm not saying he  deliberately went to hurt Elliot, totally the opposite infact but when any player attempts  tackle and is late like that its a red card.

I did until I realised you talk tripe.

Play the poster?? Isn't that the whole point of a forum to respond to posts?
		
Click to expand...

Yes it is but it’s boring when you think you are right every time.
And if it dosnt agree with you it’s tripe.
It’s opinion based .
And the tackle by Cantwell you mentioned the ball was nowhere near and he delibaretly played the man.( Jotta)
He was just lucky he didn’t hurt him.
That’s a red imo.
But you like that sort of thing I remember.!


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			It’s good news. A break is very rarely better than a dislocation.
		
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Is that just a myth then.?
Have heard it a lot.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Are we still talking about the tackle today by the Leeds player? He wasn't late, he won the ball and to me it looked like it was his follow through with his other leg that did the damage. I think it will get rescinded and that the ref only sent the player off because of the injury not because of the tackle. He was letting play go on until he saw Salah's reaction so obviously didn't think it was that bad.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on but it was a foul.
Red is debatable but he played on when he had a perfect view of the tackle but then sent him off.
I would like to hear his explanation of that.
But we won’t.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2021)

Both feet off the floor, not in control


clubchamp98 said:



			Yes it is but it’s boring when you think you are right every time.
And if it dosnt agree with you it’s tripe.
It’s opinion based .
*And the tackle by Cantwell you mentioned the ball was nowhere near and he delibaretly played the man.( Jotta)*
*He was just lucky he didn’t hurt him.*
*That’s a red imo.*
But you like that sort of thing I remember.!
		
Click to expand...

Are you struggling to understand the concept of this forum and discussions?

Let me get this straight, you're saying Cantwell's tackle was a red and Jota was lucky but Struijks tackle was fair and Elliot was unlucky? 

Struijk had 2 feet off the ground when he made that tackle, he may have won the ball but it was reckless and dangerous according to the laws of the game. 

Yeah I do like tactical fouls, it's part and parcel of the game but its upto the refs to get a grip of it.


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## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is that just a myth then.?
Have heard it a lot.
		
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Definitely a myth most of the time though it depends on the dislocation. A dislocation is often accompanied by smaller fractures called avulsion fractures where the ligaments or tendons are put under so much force they can pull chunks of bone off with them, and dislocations are a prime cause of these especially where you can see such a large dislocation is happened to Elliott - the way his foot was pointing the wrong direction is a bad sign. But on average I’d much rather have a relocatable dislocation than an actual break on a bone which is by and large less predictable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			It wasn't even a foul.
		
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Is it ok to have both feet off the ground going into a tackle now ?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2021)

Sky really are milking Ronaldo's return, it's so nauseating.

There's been no mention of poor goalkeeping for both his goals either.


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## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Sky really are milking Ronaldo's return, it's so nauseating.

There's been no mention of poor goalkeeping for both his goals either.
		
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Aww come on, you wouldn’t have it any other way. 😀


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## Slime (Sep 13, 2021)

Sky constantly mentioning Elliott's 'horrific injury'.
We know it wasn't pleasant, call it an ankle injury and move on ffs.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Sky really are milking Ronaldo's return, it's so nauseating.

There's been no mention of poor goalkeeping for both his goals either.
		
Click to expand...

Poor goalkeeping?

First Goal: Greenwood smashes the ball, then deflected just in front of goalkeeper. What does one expect, for him to hold on to the ball? Wise up, as soon as the ball was deflected, it was out of the goalkeepers control.

Second goal, Ronaldo hammers it from close range and goes under keepers legs. What do you expect, for him to close his legs in time? Wise up.

Both goals were quality attacking play, brilliant and intelligent movement. Something Utd have lacked for so long, except when Cavani came in last season. But Ronaldo has clearly proven he is beyond that level. I've been watching the game for 30 years, and Ronaldo's return on Saturday was, for me, the most exciting moment I've experienced (and I've only watched it on TV, can't imagine what it would be like in the ground). I've watched the goals over and over, and will continue to do so, and the hairs stand up in the back of my neck every time.

United fans will enjoy this for some time. But, Liverpool should get similar joy every time they see Henderson play, and the fact he signed a new contract


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it ok to have both feet off the ground going into a tackle now ?
		
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TBF, I dont want to see sliding tackles banned from the game.

It was an unfortunate incident and in no way would I blame the Leeds lad. Just one of them things, sadly.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			TBF, I dont want to see sliding tackles banned from the game.

It was unfortunate incident and in no way would I blame the Leeds lad. Just one of them things, sadly.
		
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I agree mate 

It’s an unfortunate incident that Imo was a yellow card at most but it was a foul imo


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## Swango1980 (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I agree mate

It’s an unfortunate incident that Imo was a yellow card at most but it was a foul imo
		
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Agreed, not a foul to me. Although given it is subjective by the ref, and they often like to award fouls as soon as there is any contact, then even if a foul was awarded probably not a yellow card foul. Certainly wouldn't have been had Elliot not unfortunately received his terrible injury. The ref didn't even award a foul, he was absolutely fine with the challenge, so he certainly was not going to award a red card for what he thought was a fair challenge. He only stopped play when the seriousness of the injury became apparent. If the red card was HIS decision, then he was only guessing on the recklessness of the challenge. If it was not his decision, then VAR had to be sure he made a serious error.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Poor goalkeeping?

First Goal: Greenwood smashes the ball, then deflected just in front of goalkeeper. What does one expect, for him to hold on to the ball? Wise up, as soon as the ball was deflected, it was out of the goalkeepers control.

Second goal, Ronaldo hammers it from close range and goes under keepers legs. What do you expect, for him to close his legs in time? Wise up.

Both goals were quality attacking play, brilliant and intelligent movement. Something Utd have lacked for so long, except when Cavani came in last season. But Ronaldo has clearly proven he is beyond that level. I've been watching the game for 30 years, and Ronaldo's return on Saturday was, for me, the most exciting moment I've experienced (and I've only watched it on TV, can't imagine what it would be like in the ground). I've watched the goals over and over, and will continue to do so, and the hairs stand up in the back of my neck every time.

United fans will enjoy this for some time. But, Liverpool should get similar joy every time they see Henderson play, and the fact he signed a new contract 

Click to expand...

The keeper should be doing better for both goals, that's not denying the build up to both goals were very good. That's not been mentioned at all. 

Since I posted it Mark Bosnich agreed with me, keeper shouldve done better🤷‍♂️

I think a lot of rival fans have a bit of a crush on Henderson, it seems the default position to take😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Agreed, not a foul to me. Although given it is subjective by the ref, and they often like to award fouls as soon as there is any contact, then even if a foul was awarded probably not a yellow card foul. Certainly wouldn't have been had Elliot not unfortunately received his terrible injury. The ref didn't even award a foul, he was absolutely fine with the challenge, so he certainly was not going to award a red card for what he thought was a fair challenge. He only stopped play when the seriousness of the injury became apparent. If the red card was HIS decision, then he was only guessing on the recklessness of the challenge. If it was not his decision, then VAR had to be sure he made a serious error.
		
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it’s got to be a foul - he was off the ground with both feet and he ended up seriously injuring a player and was from behind - I think a red card was harsh but listening to the ref explain the rules and the rule with endangering an opponent then it’s hard to see a red card not being given.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Aww come on, you wouldn’t have it any other way. 😀
		
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I didn't think it would be this bad. Luckily there's CL football on this week, sky never acknowledge the CL exists since they lost the rights so we might not hear about the young boys game.....


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2021)

Slime said:



			Sky constantly mentioning Elliott's 'horrific injury'.
We know it wasn't pleasant, call it an ankle injury and move on ffs.
		
Click to expand...

But but but.......



I've missed this whatabouttery crap😁


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## pokerjoke (Sep 13, 2021)

I see Klopp is talking rubbish again calling TAA “the best right back in the world “.
Just watch the first 5 minutes of MOTD when they played Chelsea.
Delusional


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I see Klopp is talking rubbish again calling TAA “the best right back in the world “.
Just watch the first 5 minutes of MOTD when they played Chelsea.
Delusional
		
Click to expand...

Who have generally been lauded as the best right backs in the world over the last 20 years - go on, try without google.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Who have generally been lauded as the best right backs in the world over the last 20 years - go on, try without google.
		
Click to expand...

Dani Alves
Phillip Lahm
Gary Neville

I struggled after these - theres going to be more


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## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Who have generally been lauded as the best right backs in the world over the last 20 years - go on, try without google.
		
Click to expand...

Lahm would be my bet, with Alves a very distant second?

Neville third. 

Not sure I’d agree with Alves but he played football people like to watch.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Dani Alves
Phillip Lahm
Gary Neville

I struggled after these - theres going to be more 

Click to expand...

Cafu


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2021)

No need to Google, you forgot Seamus Coleman 

Lahm would be the stand out for me. There will be others that ellicit an 'of course' but no googling was the rule


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## Bdill93 (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cafu
		
Click to expand...

Alan Hutton probs doesnt make the list but I appreciate you thinking of him 

On a serious note I was sat wanting to type Roberto Carlos knowing he played LB and not remembering who was at RB


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## Swango1980 (Sep 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Dani Alves
Phillip Lahm
Gary Neville

I struggled after these - theres going to be more 

Click to expand...

Zanetti
Thuram (think he was a right-back)


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## Bdill93 (Sep 13, 2021)

Ivanovic was a beast while at Chelsea but feel he was a RB/ CB hybrid type player. Azpilicueta the same! Both top players who have won it all.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 13, 2021)

Interestingly (I have now used google) Dani Alves made the World XI 9 times from 2009-2018!  Thats seriously impressive!


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## pokerjoke (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Who have generally been lauded as the best right backs in the world over the last 20 years - go on, try without google.
		
Click to expand...

You know football Pete 
Why does Klopp come out with such nonsense.
In his opinion maybe.
He’s not great at defending although obviously he can defend,going forward and his delivery I can’t think of anyone better.
Watch that first 5 minutes of MOTD against Chelsea 
First his defending for the goal where he was zonal marking he didn’t move a muscle whilst at the back post.
And Mount just strolls past him soon after , if that’s the best in the world in Klopps eyes then so be it.


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## Orikoru (Sep 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Interestingly (I have now used google) Dani Alves made the World XI 9 times from 2009-2018!  Thats seriously impressive!
		
Click to expand...

In fairness he played for a team whose only method of defending was to keep the ball for 80% of the game. In any other side he'd have been a right winger.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I see Klopp is talking rubbish again calling TAA “the best right back in the world “.
Just watch the first 5 minutes of MOTD when they played Chelsea.
Delusional
		
Click to expand...

Not as deluded as those who says he should play midfield.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Not as deluded as those who says he should play midfield.
		
Click to expand...

Who said that? me I presume 
Right midfield yes not central 
Playing him central would make Henderson look world class.
Henderson wouldn’t get in my top million


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Both feet off the floor, not in control


Are you struggling to understand the concept of this forum and discussions?

Let me get this straight, you're saying Cantwell's tackle was a red and Jota was lucky but Struijks tackle was fair and Elliot was unlucky?

Struijk had 2 feet off the ground when he made that tackle, he may have won the ball but it was reckless and dangerous according to the laws of the game.

Yeah I do like tactical fouls, it's part and parcel of the game but its upto the refs to get a grip of it.
		
Click to expand...

Cynical tackles like Cantwells is a red imo yes.
At least Struijk went for the ball .
I have watched it again several times from different angles and have changed my view it is a red card.
You were right .!
I hadn’t seen the angle from behind until last night ,but I did say it was debatable.
He’s off the floor but is he out of control as he wins the ball?
But the trailing leg did the danmage , so I think he is 

We’re talking Pawson here he didn’t even give a foul.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Who said that? me I presume 
Right midfield yes not central 
Playing him central would make Henderson look world class.
Henderson wouldn’t get in my top million
		
Click to expand...

You and many more generally seem to think he'd make a better midfielder. 

He played right of a Midfield 3 for England and looked like a lost child. 

It's a myth he can't defend. It's lazy to suggest so. He's improved season on season defensively. Don't forget he's still only a young lad.

He's not a midfielder and never will be.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes he did but it was dangerous and Wreckless.

I'm not saying he  deliberately went to hurt Elliot, totally the opposite infact but *when any player attempts  tackle and is late like that its a red card.*

I did until I realised you talk tripe.

Play the poster?? Isn't that the whole point of a forum to respond to posts?
		
Click to expand...

It appears the even Elliot disagrees with you La 🤷‍♂️


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## pokerjoke (Sep 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			You and many more generally seem to think he'd make a better midfielder. 

He played right of a Midfield 3 for England and looked like a lost child. 

It's a myth he can't defend. It's lazy to suggest so. He's improved season on season defensively. Don't forget he's still only a young lad.

He's not a midfielder and never will be.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve never said he can’t defend he just doesn’t defend well.
I’ve said many times he gets caught too far upfield and doesn’t get back in position enough.
You watch those clips I’m on about and tell me he’s a world class defender, the best right back according to Klopp.
He could never play in a 3 as you say but a 4 or a 5 he could.
Yes getting better, yes still young but Klopp talks so much crap he must be trying to convince himself.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 13, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			It appears the even Elliot disagrees with you La 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

You surprise me


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			You and many more generally seem to think he'd make a better midfielder.

He played right of a Midfield 3 for England and looked like a lost child.

It's a myth he can't defend. It's lazy to suggest so. He's improved season on season defensively. Don't forget he's still only a young lad.

He's not a midfielder and never will be.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....right-backs-world-right-now-20210630.amp.html

There have been a lot of stats etc

AWB shaded it on defensive stats but only just from TAA - everything else TAA is streets ahead but it’s old ground


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## pokerjoke (Sep 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Cynical tackles like Cantwells is a red imo yes.
At least Struijk went for the ball .
I have watched it again several times from different angles and have changed my view it is a red card.
You were right .!
I hadn’t seen the angle from behind until last night ,but I did say it was debatable.
He’s off the floor but is he out of control as he wins the ball?
But the trailing leg did the danmage , so I think he is 

We’re talking Pawson here he didn’t even give a foul.
		
Click to expand...

Never a red in a million years 
You could actually go on the player’s reactions.
Massive U turn there.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....right-backs-world-right-now-20210630.amp.html

There have been a lot of stats etc 

AWB shaded it on defensive stats but only just from TAA - everything else he is up
		
Click to expand...

Use your eyes Phil
AWB is a great one on one defender but that is all.
TAA is better at everything else that’s obvious


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2021)

Round and round and round again lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437463596301160452
It’s great to see the one season wonder hit 100 Prem Goals - not bad for a winger


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes he did but it was dangerous and Wreckless.

I'm not saying he  deliberately went to hurt Elliot, totally the opposite infact but when any player attempts  tackle and is late like that its a red card.

I did until I realised you talk tripe.

Play the poster?? Isn't that the whole point of a forum to respond to posts?
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437472510245748742
Thought this was a good take on it


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437472510245748742
Thought this was a good take on it
		
Click to expand...

To me the most intersting part of that is this quote....

"In fairness to the referee, who didn't seem to immediately whistle for a foul, he was on the opposite side of the tackle to this camera angle. He may not have seen the rotation of Struijk's body and the angle of his trailing leg as clearly."

I think this is correct and the referee was allowing play to continue. This means there are one of two reasons for the red card being shown. Either the ref has reacted to the severity of the injury, rather than the tackle itself, or he has had a word in his ear from VAR. For the ref to say that he was always going to give a red card is completely untrue.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437476380434894854
the MSM leapt upon the poor chants from Liverpool fans when they were chanting “rent boys” towards - yet silence again about these disgusting chants


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I’ve never said he can’t defend he just doesn’t defend well.
I’ve said many times he gets caught too far upfield and doesn’t get back in position enough.
You watch those clips I’m on about and tell me he’s a world class defender, the best right back according to Klopp.
He could never play in a 3 as you say but a 4 or a 5 he could.
Yes getting better, yes still young but Klopp talks so much crap he must be trying to convince himself.
		
Click to expand...

He's a lazy poser, but a very talented one 😂


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Never a red in a million years
You could actually go on the player’s reactions.
Massive U turn there.
		
Click to expand...

I have changed my view after seeing the rear angle 
He’s off the ground over the ball.
From behind ,


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2021)

Fantasy football, when youre captain doesnt play because hes injured then you realise your vice captain got sent off on saturday


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## Hobbit (Sep 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I have changed my view after seeing the rear angle
He’s off the ground over the ball.
From behind ,
		
Click to expand...

Everyone that jumps for a header is off the ground. Are they in control?

Just asking for a friend


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You know football Pete
Why does Klopp come out with such nonsense.
In his opinion maybe.
He’s not great at defending although obviously he can defend,going forward and his delivery I can’t think of anyone better.
Watch that first 5 minutes of MOTD against Chelsea
First his defending for the goal where he was zonal marking he didn’t move a muscle whilst at the back post.
And Mount just strolls past him soon after , if that’s the best in the world in Klopps eyes then so be it.
		
Click to expand...

So you can't name any?

I'm sure if we look back at many top managers they've all talked crap at times.

Did Klopp call him a world class defender or a world class RB - there is a difference.

I know TAA's weaknesses - letting wingers come on the inside too easy, not great in the air, not hitting the target enough on free kicks. Sometimes ball watches.

The lad is 22.

Cafu, Alves have been mentioned by most - were these great DEFENDERS? Yes, but I would have others above them when it comes to defending. Were they great full backs, undoubtedly. At Left Back, Roberto Carlos, Alba.

Lahm probably had the best balance of the two, although Thuram was majestic.

AWB is a better defender than him, but if you asked the majority of premiership team fans who they would want to sign for their club, I think the vast majority of top and mid table teams would pick TAA.
It's what you do as as a full package, and  what you do for your team that counts. Liverpool allow him the freedom to bomb on, as he gives so much to our attack, and as VVD and Gomez have been able to defend one on one well, we take that gamble. Playing for a team like Norwich or Newcastle with 25-40% possession and mainly defending, not as much.

Do you slag off AWB for hitting the first man every 2nd cross or general poor delivery? 

He does a great job for us, wouldnt swap him for anyone in the prem in the same position. Can he improve defensively, God yes.

I know you currently dont have the common sense to grasp this, as you are increasing letting bias and sheer stupidity cloud your judgement nowadays, a bit different to a few years ago when I could have a sensible conversation with you for a good few years. Has us winning 2 big trophies twisted you up that much? Allied to Man U's fall from grace (although returning again by the looks of it), or are you just ok when things are going well and a fair weather supporter. The difference is noticeable.   

Anyway, grasp this.

Rob Jones was a better defender than Gary Neville, absolutely.

However, Gary Neville was a better right back.

Therein lies the difference.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Never a red in a million years
You could actually go on the player’s reactions.
Massive U turn there.
		
Click to expand...

Player's reactions - oh that old chestnut.

Yes, the premiership is full of tonnes of honest players, literally falling over them aren't we?


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Everyone that jumps for a header is off the ground. Are they in control?

Just asking for a friend

Click to expand...

So are goalkeepers .
But it’s very hard to dislocate someone’s ankle with your head.

It’s interesting though , Louis of Arsenal injured Himenez of wolves with his head ,both feet off the floor.
Was he out of control , it was a very nasty injury and could be called forceful .
If you tackle with your foot and your late it’s a foul, but very rarely given if your late and butt someone.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			So are goalkeepers .
*But it’s very hard to dislocate someone’s ankle with your head.*

It’s interesting though , Louis of Arsenal injured Himenez of wolves with his head ,both feet off the floor.
Was he out of control , it was a very nasty injury and could be called forceful .
If you tackle with your foot and your late it’s a foul, but very rarely given if your late and butt someone.
		
Click to expand...

What if you miss the header and land on someone's ankle as you come down? Both feet off the floor, no control of your landing and injures and opponent.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. To me that's an unfortunate accident but I still think that the Elliot injury was also an unfortunate accident with no intent to harm the opponent.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			Fantasy football, when youre captain doesnt play because hes injured then you realise your vice captain got sent off on saturday 

Click to expand...

Could be worse. 

Could have put Ronaldo as Captain whilst having a beer and not hit save. 

So you left a player as captain giant your team (which I don't do), only for him to be sent off 🤣🤣


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## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So you can't name any?

I'm sure if we look back at many top managers they've all talked crap at times.

Did Klopp call him a world class defender or a world class RB - there is a difference.

I know TAA's weaknesses - letting wingers come on the inside too easy, not great in the air, not hitting the target enough on free kicks. Sometimes ball watches.

The lad is 22.

Cafu, Alves have been mentioned by most - were these great DEFENDERS? Yes, but I would have others above them when it comes to defending. Were they great full backs, undoubtedly. At Left Back, Roberto Carlos, Alba.

Lahm probably had the best balance of the two, although Thuram was majestic.

AWB is a better defender than him, but if you asked the majority of premiership team fans who they would want to sign for their club, I think the vast majority of top and mid table teams would pick TAA.
It's what you do as as a full package, and  what you do for your team that counts. Liverpool allow him the freedom to bomb on, as he gives so much to our attack, and as VVD and Gomez have been able to defend one on one well, we take that gamble. Playing for a team like Norwich or Newcastle with 25-40% possession and mainly defending, not as much.

Do you slag off AWB for hitting the first man every 2nd cross or general poor delivery?

He does a great job for us, wouldnt swap him for anyone in the prem in the same position. Can he improve defensively, God yes.

I know you currently dont have the common sense to grasp this, as you are increasing letting bias and sheer stupidity cloud your judgement nowadays, a bit different to a few years ago when I could have a sensible conversation with you for a good few years. Has us winning 2 big trophies twisted you up that much? Allied to Man U's fall from grace (although returning again by the looks of it), or are you just ok when things are going well and a fair weather supporter. The difference is noticeable.  

Anyway, grasp this.

Rob Jones was a better defender than Gary Neville, absolutely.

However, Gary Neville was a better right back.

Therein lies the difference. 

Click to expand...

You made since until the utter drivel about Rob Jones even if you did try to include a caveat to justify the nonsense.


----------



## Hobbit (Sep 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			So are goalkeepers .
But it’s very hard to dislocate someone’s ankle with your head.

It’s interesting though , Louis of Arsenal injured Himenez of wolves with his head ,both feet off the floor.
Was he out of control , it was a very nasty injury and could be called forceful .
If you tackle with your foot and your late it’s a foul, but very rarely given if your late and butt someone.
		
Click to expand...

The tackle on Elliot is a red, just as a tackle that gets the ball first but then goes through onto the player causing serious damage. It’s about controlling the outcome. It’s a reckless tackle. Unintentional? Just reckless.

But being off the ground doesn’t necessarily mean out of control… bit like undertaking on the motorway. Got to be more careful.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			So are goalkeepers .
But it’s very hard to dislocate someone’s ankle with your head.

It’s interesting though , Louis of Arsenal injured Himenez of wolves with his head ,both feet off the floor.
Was he out of control , it was a very nasty injury and could be called forceful .
If you tackle with your foot and your late it’s a foul, but very rarely given if your late and butt someone.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought that at the time. Luiz came flying in and smashed an opponents head in, potentially the most life threatening injury. No card. Yet, a player goes in with feet and contacts a player (or even misses) and red card is awarded. 

Goalkeepers also seem to often get away with punching opponents in the head.


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2021)

Seems Burnley dont mind which side it is from Liverpool, theyll kick anything that moves lol


----------



## adam6177 (Sep 13, 2021)

I think this idea of letting the play flow is going too far... Burnley this season are playing like a team from the 80s, smashing people and getting away with it.  Players are going to get injured.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			Seems Burnley dont mind which side it is from Liverpool, theyll kick anything that moves lol
		
Click to expand...

Was just going to post something similar. I've just seen two worse tackles by Burnley players in the space of three minutes than the one yesterday and the ref didn't book either player. Either or both could have resulted in a worse injury than Elliott's. And then the ref gives the Everton player a yellow for a foul that was less dangerous than either of the other two.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2021)

fundy said:



			Seems Burnley dont mind which side it is from Liverpool, theyll kick anything that moves lol
		
Click to expand...

You aren't kidding .

I don't know how Tarkowski got away with his take out of Richarlison. That was a tackle from the 80's (posted at the same time as @adam6177 , great minds...)


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So you can't name any?

I'm sure if we look back at many top managers they've all talked crap at times.

Did Klopp call him a world class defender or a world class RB - there is a difference.

I know TAA's weaknesses - letting wingers come on the inside too easy, not great in the air, not hitting the target enough on free kicks. Sometimes ball watches.

The lad is 22.

Cafu, Alves have been mentioned by most - were these great DEFENDERS? Yes, but I would have others above them when it comes to defending. Were they great full backs, undoubtedly. At Left Back, Roberto Carlos, Alba.

Lahm probably had the best balance of the two, although Thuram was majestic.

AWB is a better defender than him, but if you asked the majority of premiership team fans who they would want to sign for their club, I think the vast majority of top and mid table teams would pick TAA.
It's what you do as as a full package, and  what you do for your team that counts. Liverpool allow him the freedom to bomb on, as he gives so much to our attack, and as VVD and Gomez have been able to defend one on one well, we take that gamble. Playing for a team like Norwich or Newcastle with 25-40% possession and mainly defending, not as much.

Do you slag off AWB for hitting the first man every 2nd cross or general poor delivery?

He does a great job for us, wouldnt swap him for anyone in the prem in the same position. Can he improve defensively, God yes.

I know you currently dont have the common sense to grasp this, as you are increasing letting bias and sheer stupidity cloud your judgement nowadays, a bit different to a few years ago when I could have a sensible conversation with you for a good few years. Has us winning 2 big trophies twisted you up that much? Allied to Man U's fall from grace (although returning again by the looks of it), or are you just ok when things are going well and a fair weather supporter. The difference is noticeable.  

Anyway, grasp this.

Rob Jones was a better defender than Gary Neville, absolutely.

However, Gary Neville was a better right back.

Therein lies the difference. 

Click to expand...

Honourable mention of Ashley Cole at LB - when he was at Arsenal he was immense, scared me every time we played them. He was allowed more free reign than in his Chelsea years, and probably the best all-round full back I've seen in the prem.


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2021)

Cant wait for Arsenal to play em next week, just the kind of challenge we need currently lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You made since until the utter drivel about Rob Jones even if you did try to include a caveat to justify the nonsense.
		
Click to expand...

Rob Jones was an outstanding defender - it’s a shame that injury affected his England career when he was looking to be their right back for years


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## adam6177 (Sep 13, 2021)

What. A. Game.

Love football.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			I think this idea of letting the play flow is going too far... Burnley this season are playing like a team from the 80s, smashing people and getting away with it.  Players are going to get injured.
		
Click to expand...

As i said a couple weeks back - ale house football and the new directives are allowing them to do it


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			What. A. Game.

Love football.
		
Click to expand...

We are awake now 🥳.

How different when we play with pace.


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## adam6177 (Sep 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We are awake now 🥳.

How different when we play with pace.
		
Click to expand...

So you think this new manager has a chance of the fans liking him? (Just a little bit)


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			So you think this new manager has a chance of the fans liking him? (Just a little bit)
		
Click to expand...

Wonder what they will write on the sheets this time about him 😁😉


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 13, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			So you think this new manager has a chance of the fans liking him? (Just a little bit)
		
Click to expand...

I think it depends on whether Benitez decides to play like they did for the first 55 minutes of the match or whether they play like they have for the last 15 minutes. Chalk and cheese.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			So you think this new manager has a chance of the fans liking him? (Just a little bit)
		
Click to expand...

Play like we are now and all will be forgiven 😄. Play like we did first half........

So far he is winning the fans over, no question.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Rob Jones was an outstanding defender - it’s a shame that injury affected his England career when he was looking to be their right back for years
		
Click to expand...

Rob Jones was very good but even before the injuries really hit he wasn’t on the same level as a peak Gary Neville and he certainly never showed the consistency. He also never established himself for England though there’s no shame being behind Lee Dixon. Though even Paul Parker played more times for England…


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Rob Jones was very good but even before the injuries really hit he wasn’t on the same level as a peak Gary Neville and he certainly never showed the consistency. He also never established himself for England though there’s no shame being behind Lee Dixon. Though even Paul Parker played more times for England…
		
Click to expand...

Rob Jones was due to be the starting right back in the 92 Euros until he first got his shin splints which ruled him out of the tournament and then affected him for the rest of his career which is why he never got the chance to establish himself.


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## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Rob Jones was due to be the starting right back in the 92 Euros until he first got his shin splints which ruled him out of the tournament and then affected him for the rest of his career which is why he never got the chance to establish himself.
		
Click to expand...

He had the chance to establish himself between 92 and 96 for England but he never did. That’s not even relevant to this though. Rob Jones is the amazing potential who never fulfilled it.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 13, 2021)

He'll be saying that Ryan Giggs was a better winger than Barnes as a winger next......


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## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			He'll be saying that Ryan Giggs was a better winger than Barnes as a winger next......
		
Click to expand...

Cole was better than Fowler…


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I’ve never said he can’t defend he just doesn’t defend well.
I’ve said many times he gets caught too far upfield and doesn’t get back in position enough.
You watch those clips I’m on about and tell me he’s a world class defender, the best right back according to Klopp.
He could never play in a 3 as you say but a 4 or a 5 he could.
Yes getting better, yes still young but Klopp talks so much crap he must be trying to convince himself.
		
Click to expand...

Some serious backtracking here PJ.

Can't defend/can't defend well is the same thing, as you suggested he should move into midfield.

He's told and coached by the manager to get that far up the field, there will be times he gets exposed, that's football. It's about taking risks. He's not a F1 car. 

I've seen more of TAA in 5 seasons than you have and I don't need a 5min clip to see he has faults. 
That game you're actually talking about I was right in line with that goal, it was a big looping header. He wasn't at fault for giving a free header on the front post.  Zonal marking doesn't have the back  post protected, that's a downfall of zonal marking. 

Very few top teams play 442, and neither do we. Playing a 433 or 451 you'd be dropping 1 of Jota,Mane or Salah. Who would you drop to play TAA further forward?

Klopp speaks the truth, sometimes it's hard to understand when you let your hatred for Liverpool cloud your judgement.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Cole was better than Fowler…
		
Click to expand...

Joe or Carlton?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 13, 2021)

I hope Pokerjoke wasn't watching the the TAA vignette in the last 30 minutes of MNF.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes surprised WBS missed out that’s why I think he will play a 3
*TAA plays RB for Liverpool but imo and it’s only an opinion he can’t defend* and he gets too far forward and then teams attack and he’s caught upfield,that why I don’t think he will play much he will leave us exposed.
Haven’t seen Trippier play at all this year,however James although he can chuck in an error will be more disciplined.
		
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Tony did your computer get hacked back in June 🤭🤭🤣🤣🤣


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 13, 2021)

beep, beep, beep.......fairweather supporter reversing.......beep, beep, beep........


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			What if you miss the header and land on someone's ankle as you come down? Both feet off the floor, no control of your landing and injures and opponent.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. To me that's an unfortunate accident but I still think that the Elliot injury was also an unfortunate accident with no intent to harm the opponent.
		
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He’s trying to win possession of the ball from behind.
He could have just tackled him and put the ball out for a throw.
He hooks his leg around the ball and twists his body.
There is only one place his other leg can go ,that’s through Elliot.
He’s unlucky that he catches him.
But he’s off the ground. Out of control is debatable , but he caught him so he isn’t in control.
The pictures from behind show it best it’s hard to watch but it’s dangerous.

Antonio did a similar thing last week I think .Foot over the ball and landed on the ops foot , ref booked him.
I didn’t think it was red at first but looking again it’s a bad tackle from behind. There are times you can’t get the ball without going through your op, I think this is one of them.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He’s trying to win possession of the ball from behind.
He could have just tackled him and put the ball out for a throw.
He hooks his leg around the ball and twists his body.
There is only one place his other leg can go ,that’s through Elliot.
He’s unlucky that he catches him.
But he’s off the ground. Out of control is debatable , but he caught him so he isn’t in control.
The pictures from behind show it best it’s hard to watch but it’s dangerous.

Antonio did a similar thing last week I think .Foot over the ball and landed on the ops foot , ref booked him.
I didn’t think it was red at first but looking again it’s a bad tackle from behind. There are times you can’t get the ball without going through your op, I think this is one of them.
		
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There was a challenge on Richarlison last night which was exactly the same as the one on Elliot. So much so Gary and Jamie included it in their analysis after game. I don't think anyone batted an eyelid at the time in terms of it being a red, not even a yellow to be honest.

The red was given on the challenge on Elliot simply down to the injury.

Many many many challenges require players to leave the ground for a fraction of a second. Doesn't make it a dangerous lunge. A player could make a challenge by not leaving the ground, mis time it or be aggressive and snap someones leg in 2.

It is too simplistic by trying to justify a red simply by saying a player left the ground or out of control (for any given foul, is the player in control?). Surely each challenge needs to be analysed in it's own terms. Sometimes horrific injuries occur from the most tame, innocent and honest challenges. Sometimes the most horrific challenges luckily result in no injury at all.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 14, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			There was a challenge on Richarlison last night which was exactly the same as the one on Elliot. So much so Gary and Jamie included it in their analysis after game. I don't think anyone batted an eyelid at the time in terms of it being a red, not even a yellow to be honest
		
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I can assure you, more than a few eyelids were batted after that. The commentator and co commentator picked up on it straight away, Everton fans all over were screaming at it. It was a minimum yellow card and he could have had no complaints had it been red. The defender wanted to put Richarlison in the stands, he knew exactly what he was doing.

(possibly the wrong tackle being talked about by me if LB is correct #15,173)


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can assure you, more than a few eyelids were batted after that. The commentator and co commentator picked up on it straight away, Everton fans all over were screaming at it. It was a minimum yellow card and he could have had no complaints had it been red. The defender wanted to put Richarlison in the stands, he knew exactly what he was doing.
		
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I think that was a different one to what swango meant.

The one on the touchline was a "take the lot" and yes, yellow minimum, whereas the one he may mean was possibly near the centre circle.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think that was a different one to what swango meant.

The one on the touchline was a "take the lot" and yes, yellow minimum, whereas the one he may mean was possibly near the centre circle.
		
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Ah, fair enough. I don't even remember that so that probably tells you all you need to know about it. Move on etc


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## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2021)

I think the refs again have gone to the extreme where they’re letting the game flow but there’s  still fouls that should be given. 

I think all football fans will agree we need to get rid of diving in the game that’s blighted it for the last 20yrs or so and the only way to deal with diving is to stop giving fouls. That said I’ve watched loads of PL football this season and seen loads of fouls not given where they should. Its  a fine line and I hope the refs will start to adjust as stage season goes on.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think that was a different one to what swango meant.

The one on the touchline was a "take the lot" and yes, yellow minimum, whereas the one he may mean was possibly near the centre circle.
		
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That was a shocking tackle by Tarkowski on Richarlison, that’s were the refs should blowing for a foul.


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## Piece (Sep 14, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			That was a shocking tackle by Tarkowski on Richarlison, that’s were the refs should blowing for a foul.
		
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That tackle comes under old category of a "reducer"


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I think the refs again have gone to the extreme where they’re letting the game flow but there’s  still fouls that should be given.

I think all football fans will agree we need to get rid of diving in the game that’s blighted it for the last 20yrs or so and the only way to deal with diving is to stop giving fouls. That said I’ve watched loads of PL football this season and seen loads of fouls not given where they should. Its  a fine line and I hope the refs will start to adjust as stage season goes on.
		
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I agree, but i want us to massively come away from people being touched and just hitting the deck to get a foul.

It'll never be perfect, but would rather it went back the other way, and some be not right, than the last 5-10 years of it being a race to hit the deck. It has become too soft.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can assure you, more than a few eyelids were batted after that. The commentator and co commentator picked up on it straight away, Everton fans all over were screaming at it. It was a minimum yellow card and he could have had no complaints had it been red. The defender wanted to put Richarlison in the stands, he knew exactly what he was doing.

(possibly the wrong tackle being talked about by me if LB is correct #15,173)
		
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Indeed, the challenge you are thinking about was a shocker.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2021)

I was listening to the game on 5live , they talked about one tackle on Richarlinson and they said it was a clean man and ball tackle that previously was fine 30 years ago but was a yellow and foul last season and is now fine again 🤷‍♂️ Seems to be a mess


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## fundy (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I was listening to the game on 5live , they talked about one tackle on Richarlinson and they said it was a clean man and ball tackle that previously was fine 30 years ago but was a yellow and foul last season and is now fine again 🤷‍♂️ Seems to be a mess
		
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no way that tackle is fine again, any other ref and thats a foul and a yellow (minimum), just atkinson being atkinson (or thinking richarlison deserved it  )



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437508906322890753


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			no way that tackle is fine again, any other ref and thats a foul and a yellow (minimum), just atkinson being atkinson (or thinking richarlison deserved it  )



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437508906322890753

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How is that not a yellow card at the very least - shocking.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree, but i want us to massively come away from people being touched and just hitting the deck to get a foul.

It'll never be perfect, but would rather it went back the other way, and some be not right, than the last 5-10 years of it being a race to hit the deck. It has become too soft.
		
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The majority of sensible football fans want exactly the same P. The old "contact is contact" "rules are rules"  plebs won't grasp that though.

Hopefully the refs will start to use their own common sense and give the fouls when they're fouls before its too late.

At the minute you can see it's almost as if they have to let every foul go.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			no way that tackle is fine again, any other ref and thats a foul and a yellow (minimum), just atkinson being atkinson (or thinking richarlison deserved it  )



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437508906322890753

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Regardless of the player it's a terrible tackle, I even felt sorry for Richarlison for  a couple of seconds then I gave my head a shake😁


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## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I was listening to the game on 5live , they talked about one tackle on Richarlinson and they said it was a clean man and ball tackle that previously was fine 30 years ago but was a yellow and foul last season and is now fine again 🤷‍♂️ Seems to be a mess
		
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You give up on watching it on Twitter Phillip? 😉


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## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2021)

Piece said:



			That tackle comes under old category of a "reducer" 

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I've seen people get done for assault for less😁


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Regardless of the player it's a terrible tackle, I even felt sorry for Richarlison for  a couple of seconds then I gave my head a shake😁
		
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Maybe someone was living rent fr....... you know the rest.

Richarlison must have the biggest sulk face in football, surely even some die hard blues hate that face of his as well.


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Sep 14, 2021)

It amazes me how you guys like to play football with a round ball.

It looks almost like a volley ball only bigger and heavier.

Doesn't seem natural.

And you don't even _have_ to.

You've got both league and union rugby to choose from, 

but you choose to obsess over association football instead.

I'd rather watch paint dry.

Then again, I can sit through a four hour baseball game,

so it's all what one is accustomed to.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 14, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			There was a challenge on Richarlison last night which was exactly the same as the one on Elliot. So much so Gary and Jamie included it in their analysis after game. I don't think anyone batted an eyelid at the time in terms of it being a red, not even a yellow to be honest.

The red was given on the challenge on Elliot simply down to the injury.

Many many many challenges require players to leave the ground for a fraction of a second. Doesn't make it a dangerous lunge. A player could make a challenge by not leaving the ground, mis time it or be aggressive and snap someones leg in 2.

It is too simplistic by trying to justify a red simply by saying a player left the ground or out of control (for any given foul, is the player in control?). Surely each challenge needs to be analysed in it's own terms. Sometimes horrific injuries occur from the most tame, innocent and honest challenges. Sometimes the most horrific challenges luckily result in no injury at all.
		
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Yes I agree with most of what you say.
But the biggest thing for me out of all this is “do the refs know what a foul is anymore”?
If you have both feet off the ground diving in to a challenge and you hurt someone the ref has to decide if your out of control.
They change the rules interpretation so often it’s just a mess.
Like the flag not going up for offside , as soon as someone gets seriously hurt it will go back to normal.
I don’t envy the refs but they are supposed to be the best!?


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 14, 2021)

That’s a shocker on Richalason.
It’s that sort of thing that causes trouble because the ref didn’t do anything.
Is that a clear and obvious error by the ref?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 14, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			It amazes me how you guys like to play football with a round ball.

It looks almost like a volley ball only bigger and heavier.

Doesn't seem natural.

And you don't even _have_ to.

You've got both league and union rugby to choose from,

but you choose to obsess over association football instead.

I'd rather watch paint dry.

Then again, I can sit through a four hour baseball game,

so it's all what one is accustomed to.
		
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That's because it's played with the feet ie football rather than hugging with your hands


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## Piece (Sep 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			That's because it's played with the feet ie football rather than hugging with your hands
		
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NFL is called football...but not played with the feet


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## pauljames87 (Sep 14, 2021)

Piece said:





NFL is called football...but not played with the feet 

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Extreme cuddling


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## pokerjoke (Sep 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a shocker on Richalason.
It’s that sort of thing that causes trouble because the ref didn’t do anything.
Is that a clear and obvious error by the ref?
		
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Sunday morning football challenge that was.
Thought Burnley were over aggressive at times but good football prevailed.
Great goal by Townsend


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## pokerjoke (Sep 14, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Some serious backtracking here PJ.

Can't defend/can't defend well is the same thing, as you suggested he should move into midfield.

He's told and coached by the manager to get that far up the field, there will be times he gets exposed, that's football. It's about taking risks. He's not a F1 car. 

I've seen more of TAA in 5 seasons than you have and I don't need a 5min clip to see he has faults. 
That game you're actually talking about I was right in line with that goal, it was a big looping header. He wasn't at fault for giving a free header on the front post.  Zonal marking doesn't have the back  post protected, that's a downfall of zonal marking. 

Very few top teams play 442, and neither do we. Playing a 433 or 451 you'd be dropping 1 of Jota,Mane or Salah. Who would you drop to play TAA further forward?

Klopp speaks the truth, sometimes it's hard to understand when you let your hatred for Liverpool cloud your judgement.
		
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Obviously we see Klopp differently 
I actually like him and his honesty at times but TAA best right back in the world I would question.

Mo Salah in the 100 club, fair play.
Just about creeping in to a 2 season wonder


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## 4LEX (Sep 14, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			It amazes me how you guys like to play football with a round ball.

It looks almost like a volley ball only bigger and heavier.

Doesn't seem natural.

And you don't even _have_ to.

You've got both league and union rugby to choose from,

but you choose to obsess over association football instead.

I'd rather watch paint dry.

Then again, I can sit through a four hour baseball game,

so it's all what one is accustomed to.
		
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Playing a sport with a ball is one of the most natural things. Playing with an egg that bounces unevenly, thus taking the element of skill away and placing more random luck into play, isn't. Let's see NBA with an egg and see how it goes.....


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 14, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Sunday morning football challenge that was.
Thought Burnley were over aggressive at times but good football prevailed.
Great goal by Townsend
		
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Burnley are a physical team it’s part of their game.
That’s where the ref must protect the opponents.
Rash challenges like that need to be punished.


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## Slime (Sep 14, 2021)

Ronaldo scores again .......................... obviously.


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## Kellfire (Sep 14, 2021)

Good combo, those Portuguese lads.


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## Kellfire (Sep 14, 2021)

Stone wall red that.


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## Slime (Sep 14, 2021)

Yeah, that was a fantastic ball from Bruno.


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## Slime (Sep 14, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Stone wall red that.
		
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I can't argue with that.


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## IanM (Sep 14, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Stone wall red that.
		
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Apparently it is these days.    But I'm not sure I get it


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Sep 14, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Playing a sport with a ball is one of the most natural things. Playing with an egg that bounces unevenly, thus taking the element of skill away and placing more random luck into play, isn't. Let's see NBA with an egg and see how it goes.....
		
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Reasonable point.  
I just can't sit through it.  
I can sit through rugby, especially union rules, 
but the game that we savages call "soccer"  leaves me blurry eyed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2021)




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## Ye Olde Boomer (Sep 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			That's because it's played with the feet ie football rather than hugging with your hands
		
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Yes, I suppose.  I just didn't grow up with it.  

I was given a bat that was round [not a cricket bat], 
a glove for my non-throwing hand, 
shoes with flat steel spikes rather than cleats [not like track shoe spikes or the golf spikes we used years ago], 
and a dozen very hard balls that had wound file wool yarn under the white leather cover with red stitching.

When I kicked it, I was charged with an error on the scorecard.
So that's an odd transition.

As to our version of "football,"
yes, it's quadriplegia waiting to happen and should probably be banned,
but at least I was exposed to it young.

Association football, which we call soccer, has become an accepted school and recreational game in America,
but as ticketed sports entertainment, it's pretty far down the list,
and we recognize that this is globally unusual.

The first time I ever saw it as a child was in the cinema.
Lots of American youngsters play it now.
It's just not a big entertainment revenue producer.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 14, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Reasonable point.
I just can't sit through it.
I can sit through rugby, especially union rules,
but the game that we savages call "soccer"  leaves me blurry eyed.
		
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The renford rejects summed it up perfect ... Americans just can't do draws or appreciate the lesser points of the game 

They wanted bigger goals so more goals scored with head sets for keepers so they could talk to the crowd 🤣


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Sep 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The renford rejects summed it up perfect ... Americans just can't do draws or appreciate the lesser points of the game

They wanted bigger goals so more goals scored with head sets for keepers so they could talk to the crowd 🤣
		
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I have no doubt that your football is a highly skilled game.
As for draws which we call ties, timed games should have them. I disagree with most Americans on that.
Head sets for talking goalkeepers is indeed a psychotic suggestion.

It's the game itself.  Americans value hand-eye coordination more than anything else in sports.
At least you use your eyes.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 14, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			I have no doubt that your football is a highly skilled game.
As for draws which we call ties, timed games should have them. I disagree with most Americans on that.
Head sets for talking goalkeepers is indeed a psychotic suggestion.

It's the game itself.  Americans value hand-eye coordination more than anything else in sports.
At least you use your eyes.
		
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To be fair foot to eye coordination is a massive ability...


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Sep 14, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			To be fair foot to eye coordination is a massive ability...
		
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Agreed.  It's just a matter of what we're looking for.

Our kickers have talent, but what's asked of them isn't the same.


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## fundy (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 38479

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is that a young male squirrel?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			is that a young male squirrel? 

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😂😂

It was men against boys


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## Slime (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂

It was men against boys
		
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I'm glad you enjoyed it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm glad you enjoyed it. 

Click to expand...

It was an enjoyable match to watch 👍


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## 4LEX (Sep 14, 2021)

That is the reason Utd won't do anything under Ole. A top class side, 1 up and he reverts to Cardiff like tactics. Never seen such cowardly management in my years watching football. YB are a joke side, you bring on attackers and win the game, not holding out for 1-0, then 1-1. Got what he deserved. That doesn't even mention the appalling subs.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Yes, I suppose.  I just didn't grow up with it. 

I was given a bat that was round [not a cricket bat],
a glove for my non-throwing hand,
shoes with flat steel spikes rather than cleats [not like track shoe spikes or the golf spikes we used years ago],
and a dozen very hard balls that had wound file wool yarn under the white leather cover with red stitching.

When I kicked it, I was charged with an error on the scorecard.
So that's an odd transition.

As to our version of "football,"
yes, it's quadriplegia waiting to happen and should probably be banned,
but at least I was exposed to it young.

Association football, which we call soccer, has become an accepted school and recreational game in America,
but as ticketed sports entertainment, it's pretty far down the list,
and we recognize that this is globally unusual.

The first time I ever saw it as a child was in the cinema.
Lots of American youngsters play it now.
It's just not a big entertainment revenue producer.
		
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Probably because its not a sport you invented, that you can be best in the world at.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			AWB is a better defender than him, but if you asked the majority of premiership team fans who they would want to sign for their club, I think the vast majority of top and mid table teams would pick TAA.
It's what you do as as a full package, and  what you do for your team that counts. Liverpool allow him the freedom to bomb on, as he gives so much to our attack, and as VVD and Gomez have been able to defend one on one well, we take that gamble. Playing for a team like Norwich or Newcastle with 25-40% possession and mainly defending, not as much.

Do you slag off AWB for hitting the first man every 2nd cross or general poor delivery?
		
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Fragger, is it too late to edit this one mate?

Phil, phil.......


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## Tashyboy (Sep 14, 2021)

4LEX said:



			That is the reason Utd won't do anything under Ole. A top class side, 1 up and he reverts to Cardiff like tactics. Never seen such cowardly management in my years watching football. YB are a joke side, you bring on attackers and win the game, not holding out for 1-0, then 1-1. Got what he deserved. That doesn't even mention the appalling subs.
		
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Took grandson to football tonight, talking to a guy about golf. Another guy chips in Utds winning. I mentioned about Ole not being up to it. He was adamant he was. Not seen owt tonight to convince me he was right.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2021)

Barcelona fans backing the club well in the dark times, I see.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 14, 2021)

4LEX said:



			That is the reason Utd won't do anything under Ole. A top class side, 1 up and he reverts to Cardiff like tactics. Never seen such cowardly management in my years watching football. YB are a joke side, you bring on attackers and win the game, not holding out for 1-0, then 1-1. Got what he deserved. That doesn't even mention the appalling subs.
		
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You saw Gareth at the Euros didn’t you.
Must agree with you though some baffling decisions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Barcelona fans backing the club well in the dark times, I see.
		
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In fairness I think there is some level of restrictions on how many can attend hence only 30k in the stadium


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In fairness I think there is some level of restrictions on how many can attend hence only 30k in the stadium
		
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I don't know tbh, missed the 1st half as at golf. Is it limited to 30K though?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I don't know tbh, missed the 1st half as at golf. Is it limited to 30K though?
		
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Beleive it’s 35 or 40% of capacity


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## Swango1980 (Sep 15, 2021)

I'm a United fan and Ole embarrasses me.

United's squad, in my opinion, is not far off the best squad in history of PL (despite no Roy Keane leadership). But, excuses are continually made for Ole. Weak defensive midfield, not Ole's fault.

I've never really watched a top.side and thought they've the perfect player in ever position. The best teams have several great player, leaders, workers and a great manager to.get them playing to.full potential. Pepe or Klopp, I'm fairly confident they'd win many trophies with this Utd team. Ole looks for his players to inspire him. 

All I can hope for is Ole proves me wrong. But he has done nothing to make me think that is a realistic dream.


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## Beezerk (Sep 15, 2021)

Wow, bottler Lingard


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 15, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You saw Gareth at the Euros didn’t you.
Must agree with you though some baffling decisions.
		
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I think England achieved what they did despite Southgate being manager rather than because he was manager. With Man Utd it's the same. Anything they achieve will be in spite of having Ole as manager rather than because of having him as manager.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I think England achieved what they did despite Southgate being manager rather than because he was manager. With Man Utd it's the same. Anything they achieve will be in spite of having Ole as manager rather than because of having him as manager.
		
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I think this hits the nail firmly on the head. Both Ole and Southgate do no wrong re PR etc. You find it very hard to dislike them. You will them to succeed ( with the exception of Ole coz am a City fan). But for me, they are poor championship managers that are not get the full potential out of there squads.


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## chrisd (Sep 15, 2021)

So, Southgate has underachieved?

He's been in charge for 49 proper competitive matches and only lost 8 of them, he's managed 64 matches overall and lost only 10 of them and is heading to be the most successful England manager of all time stats wise.

He's changed the team to one of younger players and given them a longer run than many of his predecessors have done and now looks like he could properly challenge for silverware. Yes, we question decisions he makes as we are entitled to, but the team have definitely  not "won in spite of him and not because of him" as has been said here . Had Big Sam still been in charge, or his predecessor Roy Hodgson, would the stats have been as impressive, would we have the young vibrant team we do now ?

I personally don't think there is another English manager better than the one we have who has also bought together the players, where in the past players from Utd, Liverpool,  Spurs etc were anything but "team mates".


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## Orikoru (Sep 15, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Reasonable point. 
I just can't sit through it. 
I can sit through rugby, especially union rules,
but the game that we savages call "soccer"  leaves me blurry eyed.
		
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Not enough breaks for adverts I guess, it can be hard to keep up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2021)

chrisd said:



			So, Southgate has underachieved?

He's been in charge for 49 proper competitive matches and only lost 8 of them, he's managed 64 matches overall and lost only 10 of them and is heading to be the most successful England manager of all time stats wise.

He's changed the team to one of younger players and given them a longer run than many of his predecessors have done and now looks like he could properly challenge for silverware. Yes, we question decisions he makes as we are entitled to, but the team have definitely  not "won in spite of him and not because of him" as has been said here . Had Big Sam still been in charge, or his predecessor Roy Hodgson, would the stats have been as impressive, would we have the young vibrant team we do now ?

I personally don't think there is another English manager better than the one we have who has also bought together the players, where in the past players from Utd, Liverpool,  Spurs etc were anything but "team mates".
		
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Having no better English manager isn’t that great an endorsement - the last high level English manager is prob Bobby Robson - there hasnt been one who has achieved what he did as a manager.

If England want to continue with an English only manager then it will be falling short each time

Southgate was out managed by someone who has managed at the highest level and been successful at it - if Mancini was in charge of England in that game then England would have won the Euros


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Having no better English manager isn’t that great an endorsement - the last high level English manager is prob Bobby Robson - there hasnt been one who has achieved what he did as a manager.

If England want to continue with an English only manager then it will be falling short each time

*Southgate was out managed by someone who has managed at the highest level and been successful at it - if Mancini was in charge of England in that game then England would have won the Euro*s
		
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I'm no great fan of Southgate, too conservative for me, but in what way was he 'out managed' by Mancini. Mancini's Italy could not beat England after 120 + minutes of play. They are not a minnow nation, they are a very good, top level team on a heck of an unbeaten run. They needed penalties to win. You don't out manage someone to a penalty win.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm no great fan of Southgate, too conservative for me, but in what way was he 'out managed' by Mancini. Mancini's Italy could not beat England after 120 + minutes of play. They are not a minnow nation, they are a very good, top level team on a heck of an unbeaten run. They needed penalties to win. You don't out manage someone to a penalty win.
		
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After England went ahead , Mancini was making small subtle changes that turned the game away from England - even small things swapping the wide players around which proved to be successful for them - England as a team were more talented than Italy , the attacking line up that England could field was frightening and Southgate didn’t change a thing because he was scared to lose - Mancini managing that squad would have won the game for England - he wouldnt have been afraid to make both tactical and personnel changes.

After about 15 mins Italy dominated that game and Southgate did nothing to try and change that and that imo comes down to him not having the high level tactical awareness


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			After England went ahead , Mancini was making small subtle changes that turned the game away from England - even small things swapping the wide players around which proved to be successful for them - England as a team were more talented than Italy , the attacking line up that England could field was frightening and Southgate didn’t change a thing because he was scared to lose - Mancini managing that squad would have won the game for England - he wouldnt have been afraid to make both tactical and personnel changes.

After about 15 mins Italy dominated that game and Southgate did nothing to try and change that and that imo comes down to him not having the high level tactical awareness
		
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I agree with most of your post but equally Italy could not beat us in open play. If you can't do that then Mancini can not claim managerial superioirty imo, I'm not saying he is incidentally. A bolder England manager would have won that game but I think we have done that to death at the time.


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## Orikoru (Sep 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm no great fan of Southgate, too conservative for me, but in what way was he 'out managed' by Mancini. Mancini's Italy could not beat England after 120 + minutes of play. They are not a minnow nation, they are a very good, top level team on a heck of an unbeaten run. They needed penalties to win. You don't out manage someone to a penalty win.
		
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Mancini didn't sub on two fellers to take a penalty with their first kick of the night to be fair.


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## IanM (Sep 15, 2021)

Experience of managers was a factor... had my lunchtime butty listening to Jim White trolling about a game that England drew.... surprised he was still watching!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Mancini didn't sub on two fellers to take a penalty with their first kick of the night to be fair. 

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I'm happy for his decisions to be pulled apart, not tricky, but 'out managed' to a 1-1 draw is not the right phrase.


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## nickjdavis (Sep 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Having no better English manager isn’t that great an endorsement - the last high level English manager is prob Bobby Robson - there hasnt been one who has achieved what he did as a manager.

If England want to continue with an English only manager then it will be falling short each time
		
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Cant argue with what Robson achieved as a manager in club football certainly, but on the international stage?


Somewhat unfortunate to exit Spain '82 at the 2nd group stage (what an awful idea that was!!!) without losing a game
Failed to qualify for Euro 84
Stumbled upon Beardsley/Lineker (forced changes due to red cards/injury) as a front pairing which got us to the WC QF's in 1986....but only finished 2nd to Morocco in the group.
Finished bottom of our group losing all three games at Euro 88
Lost a W/C semi final on pens in 1990 (and what is often overlooked is that we scraped to a 1-0 win over Egypt in the final group game to avoid the drawing of lots to see who qualified from the group)

Arguably Southgate has already eclipsed that.


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## chrisd (Sep 15, 2021)

It's all very well to say " if this, if that" but Mancini was not the England manager and it's sheer speculation what anyone in charge of the England team would, or wouldn't do with a completely different set of players. We got a team to the final and that's been done very few times so I reckon Southgate must be better than most, but there are people on here who clearly know more about running a national team and I suspect some of those were saying that we'd do well to get through the group stage!


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## 4LEX (Sep 15, 2021)

Not Southgate's biggest fan but he's a top man and has created a united squad, which England haven't had since Venables. He's benefitted from easy draws in the major tournaments but he's still been the most successful England manager since 66. He's definitely short tactically and is scared to make big calls during important games. Against Croatia and Italy, England were excellent in the first half of both and went ahead, but both times he was like a rabbit in the headlights and did nothing. Both games gradually slipped away and England were lucky to make it to extra time in Russia and to penalties against Italy.

Overly defensive and lacking in game management are the big negatives, I hope he learns from the mistakes for the World Cup. Theres a lack of a real world class side and this will be the best chance we ever have of winning it. Every England game will be like a home game, due to so many ex pats in Dubai flying in. I'm going to be there for it and can't bloody wait!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2021)

chrisd said:



			It's all very well to say " if this, if that" but Mancini was not the England manager and it's sheer speculation what anyone in charge of the England team would, or wouldn't do with a completely different set of players. We got a team to the final and that's been done very few times so I reckon Southgate must be better than most, but there are people on here who clearly know more about running a national team and I suspect some of those were saying that we'd do well to get through the group stage!
		
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It’s called debate and opinion on a forum 🤷‍♂️

Surely people can debate even if they aren’t a football manager 🙄


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## chrisd (Sep 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s called debate and opinion on a forum 🤷‍♂️

Surely people can debate even if they aren’t a football manager 🙄
		
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Don't let me stop you, nobody else has managed to 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Don't let me stop you, nobody else has managed to 👍
		
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If you can let us know what people are allowed to discuss on here that would be great 🙄👍


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## chrisd (Sep 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you can let us know what people are allowed to discuss on here that would be great 🙄👍
		
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As usual when we get to this point Phil I'm out of here 😁


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 15, 2021)




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## ColchesterFC (Sep 15, 2021)




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## Ye Olde Boomer (Sep 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Not enough breaks for adverts I guess, it can be hard to keep up.
		
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Breaks for adverts have changed baseball from a two hour twenty minute game to a three hour 45 minute game.   Disaster.
Pretty soon we'll have corporate sponsor logos on the uniforms the way you have in the Premier League.


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## Billysboots (Sep 15, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm a United fan and Ole embarrasses me.

United's squad, in my opinion, is not far off the best squad in history of PL (despite no Roy Keane leadership). But, excuses are continually made for Ole. Weak defensive midfield, not Ole's fault.

I've never really watched a top.side and thought they've the perfect player in ever position. The best teams have several great player, leaders, workers and a great manager to.get them playing to.full potential. Pepe or Klopp, I'm fairly confident they'd win many trophies with this Utd team. Ole looks for his players to inspire him. 

All I can hope for is Ole proves me wrong. But he has done nothing to make me think that is a realistic dream.
		
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Solskjaer is repeatedly found wanting in the big games, and that is a real worry.

His substitutions last night were baffling, most notably his decision to hook Ronaldo. YB’s were keeping 2/3 players back simply to keep an eye on him and as soon as he was replaced that allowed them to get forward against a side already down to ten men and up against it.

We have a great squad now. But the manager needs to step up to the plate when it really matters.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 15, 2021)

chrisd said:



			As usual when we get to this point Phil I'm out of here 😁
		
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The over use of 🙄 are great aren’t they?

This thread as suddenly gone downhill again recently,just as a couple of people have started posting again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2021)

What a great match of football - brilliant to watch , made it a bit too tense at times

And Man City winning 6-3 with a RBL player getting a hat trick and losing 🤦‍♂️


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## davemc1 (Sep 15, 2021)

Great to be back winning games in the CL with fans

The pub tele hasn’t sounded so loud in yonks 😁


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## 4LEX (Sep 15, 2021)

Liverpool and City were amazing, not easy games but the way Liverpool hit back in the second half was top class.

I watched the final 20 minutes of the PSG game and was disgusted with what I saw. I know I said Utd last season were a horrible and arrogant side but PSG this season take it to new levels. Messi is finished and does nothing but get it too deep and pass sideways, what a sad end to his career being surrounded by mercenaries and posers. In a fifth rate league then getting outplayed by a team from Belgium.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 16, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool and City were amazing, not easy games but the way Liverpool hit back in the second half was top class.

I watched the final 20 minutes of the PSG game and was disgusted with what I saw. I know I said Utd last season were a horrible and arrogant side but PSG this season take it to new levels. Messi is finished and does nothing but get it too deep and pass sideways, what a sad end to his career being surrounded by mercenaries and posers. In a fifth rate league then getting outplayed by a team from Belgium.
		
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Even more worrying for PSG, they struggled to put  more than 1 goal past Mignolet 🤦‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Sep 16, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool and *City were amazing,* not easy games but the way Liverpool hit back in the second half was top class.

I watched the final 20 minutes of the PSG game and was disgusted with what I saw. I know I said Utd last season were a horrible and arrogant side but PSG this season take it to new levels. Messi is finished and does nothing but get it too deep and pass sideways, what a sad end to his career being surrounded by mercenaries and posers. In a fifth rate league then getting outplayed by a team from Belgium.
		
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I went last night, first time sat in padded seats, lovely. Counted sixty Leipzig red Bull fans. Ten more than City 😁 I thought City were poor. An OG, penalty, individual goal from Jackie Chan, goal from a corner. That’s not the free flowing City I know. Not complaining but The game was amazing City not so.
That said once more I came away bogged off. VAR is better, a lot better. But it has been replace by offside. Two scored goals, play is allowed to continue then the linesman puts up the flag to say offside. 😡 bloody why? If he knows it is offside why allow play to continue. Why not put flag up straight away.If he is not sure VAR is there. But to know he is offside and let play continue is both stupid and wrong for fans at the game.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 16, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I went last night, first time sat in padded seats, lovely. Counted sixty Leipzig red Bull fans. Ten more than City 😁 I thought City were poor. An OG, penalty, individual goal from Jackie Chan, goal from a corner. That’s not the free flowing City I know. Not complaining but The game was amazing City not so.
That said once more I came away bogged off. VAR is better, a lot better. But it has been replace by offside. Two scored goals, play is allowed to continue then the linesman puts up the flag to say offside. 😡 bloody why? If he knows it is offside why allow play to continue. Why not put flag up straight away.If he is not sure VAR is there. But to know he is offside and let play continue is both stupid and wrong for fans at the game.
		
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Tashyboy selling out and going in the padded seats eh, who would've thought eh Tashy lad😁😁😉


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## fundy (Sep 16, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I went last night, first time sat in padded seats, lovely. Counted sixty Leipzig red Bull fans. Ten more than City 😁 I thought City were poor. An OG, penalty, individual goal from Jackie Chan, goal from a corner. That’s not the free flowing City I know. Not complaining but The game was amazing City not so.
That said once more I came away bogged off. VAR is better, a lot better. But it has been replace by offside. Two scored goals, play is allowed to continue then the linesman puts up the flag to say offside. 😡 bloody why? If he knows it is offside why allow play to continue. Why not put flag up straight away.If he is not sure VAR is there. But to know he is offside and let play continue is both stupid and wrong for fans at the game.
		
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Why theyre doing it is what happens when he blows up for offside but was wrong. VAR cant then help as play wasnt allowed to develop. For eg Salahs goal last night would never have happened if it had been flagged straight away.

The clear ones should def be flagged early but I can see why they are not flagging the close ones, not saying I agree with it but theyre doing it to try and get less "wrong" decisions


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			Why theyre doing it is what happens when he blows up for offside but was wrong. VAR cant then help as play wasnt allowed to develop. For eg Salahs goal last night would never have happened if it had been flagged straight away.

The clear ones should def be flagged early but I can see why they are not flagging the close ones, not saying I agree with it but theyre doing it to try and get less "wrong" decisions
		
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Bang on, some people still dont get it.

They have to be "sure". Once you've flagged, thats the end of the move.

Yes if someone is clearly 3-5 yards offside, flag, but anything even close to marginal, keep it down, VAR can sort it if it leads directly to a goal.

I remember an Arsenal one at OT the other year, when players were crossing over. Initially you "felt" it was offside in real time, but when checked was a decent amount on - it would have been flagged years ago, we know how trigger happy linoes are at OT for the opposition in the past, arent we?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 16, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Bang on, some people still dont get it.

They have to be "sure". Once you've flagged, thats the end of the move.

Yes if someone is clearly 3-5 yards offside, flag, but anything even close to marginal, keep it down, VAR can sort it if it leads direct to a goal.

I remember an Arsenal one at OT the other year, when players were crossing over. Initially you "felt" it was offside in real time, but when checked was a decent amount on - it would have been flagged years ago, and know how trigger happy linoes are at OT for the opposition in the past, arent we?
		
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Josh king against West ham had flag up when he scored only for it to be given onside by var

Tbh do away with linos making offside calls if var is there .. var will do it anyways


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Tashyboy selling out and going in the padded seats eh, who would've thought eh Tashy lad😁😁😉
		
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Did you hear the plea from Guardiola asking for fans to go to the game 😲 the ticket issue is causing mayhem


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## IanM (Sep 16, 2021)

What ticket issue?

I watched the Liverpool game last night. Really enjoyed it!!  Never thought Liverpool would lose it, but they decided to stress out the locals!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2021)

IanM said:



			What ticket issue?

I watched the Liverpool game last night. Really enjoyed it!!  Never thought Liverpool would lose it, but they decided to stress out the locals!
		
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It seems there was some auto purchase on cup tickets etc for some ST holders and some it issues etc which have either meant fans have refused to go or some can’t get in - that’s what some fans are saying . They do seem to have lots of match day tickets on general sale , not many Prem Teams manage that 

They have had lots of empty seats but I’m not sure how often they previously sold out


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 16, 2021)

IanM said:



			What ticket issue?

I watched the Liverpool game last night. Really enjoyed it!!  Never thought Liverpool would lose it, but they decided to stress out the locals!
		
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Yes we need to put teams like them away when we have so much dominance.
But apart from a couple of mins before half time we always looked in control.
The lads trying to get in the first team put everything into the game.
Your not wrong about nervy but cracking game.
Thought Tiago was class.


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## chrisd (Sep 16, 2021)

Interesting that England have reached their highest position ever in the FIFA world rankings (3rd)


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## Stuart_C (Sep 16, 2021)

IanM said:



			What ticket issue?

I watched the Liverpool game last night. Really enjoyed it!!  Never thought Liverpool would lose it, but they decided to stress out the locals!
		
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All PL clubs have gone digitally now where tickets are on the phone.

Unfortunately it's not working as quick as the old fancard system. Queues are massive to get in, system is very hit and miss, user error etc

Last 4 home games I've had issues getting in. Using a Samsung S20+ so I'm on an upto date handset/software.

It's not user error as I use Google pay everyday with no issues.

It's like talking to a Brickwall  at the moment trying to get  through to the none existent customer services dept.

Honestly I feel like jibbing it all together, its a complete ball ache.

A lad we go with had to go and queue up at the Ticket office and got a paper ticket as their system wouldn't recognise his Handset. He walked in at half time. £55 for that.


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## Junior (Sep 16, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm a United fan and Ole embarrasses me.

United's squad, in my opinion, is not far off the best squad in history of PL (despite no Roy Keane leadership). But, excuses are continually made for Ole. Weak defensive midfield, not Ole's fault.

I've never really watched a top.side and thought they've the perfect player in ever position.
		
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I'm for giving him this season to bring home silverware.  He's rightly been given time and built a team that should challenge.  

If he can't then as much as it pains me to say it,  he's got to go.   Big question is who would you bring in ?  Poch isn't setting the world on fire with PSG.  Zidane failed with Madrid.  Mancini? Flick?


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## Kellfire (Sep 16, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Interesting that England have reached their highest position ever in the FIFA world rankings (3rd)
		
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Lack of quality outside of Europe has lead to this.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 16, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Lack of quality outside of Europe has lead to this.
		
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Played 2 good teams when it mattered and  crumbled.

I know what my own 2 eyes seen, England are not the 3rd best team in Europe, nevermind the world.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 16, 2021)

Junior said:



			I'm for giving him this season to bring home silverware.  He's rightly been given time and built a team that should challenge. 

If he can't then as much as it pains me to say it,  he's got to go.   Big question is who would you bring in ?  Poch isn't setting the world on fire with PSG.  Zidane failed with Madrid.  Mancini? Flick?
		
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Give him 2 seasons Junior 😉


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## Fade and Die (Sep 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			All PL clubs have gone digitally now where tickets are on the phone.

Unfortunately it's not working as quick as the old fancard system. Queues are massive to get in, system is very hit and miss, user error etc

Last 4 home games I've had issues getting in. Using a Samsung S20+ so I'm on an upto date handset/software.

It's not user error as I use Google pay everyday with no issues.

It's like talking to a Brickwall  at the moment trying to get  through to the none existent customer services dept.

Honestly I feel like jibbing it all together, its a complete ball ache.

A lad we go with had to go and queue up at the Ticket office and got a paper ticket as their system wouldn't recognise his Handset. He walked in at half time. £55 for that.
		
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Similar at the LS, carnage trying to get in, there is a steward on every pair of turnstiles showing people how to make the barcode slightly bigger so the reader can see it. Doesn’t help when some people’s phones screen turn off when they put them in the reader! Absolute mess. I just print my tickets every week to be on the safe side.


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## Kellfire (Sep 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Played 2 good teams when it mattered and  crumbled.

I know what my own 2 eyes seen, England are not the 3rd best team in Europe, nevermind the world.
		
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I’m not sure who’s better than them on paper but I’d fancy France, Italy and Belgium on their best day to beat England on their best day but I don’t think there’s much in it


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## chrisd (Sep 16, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Lack of quality outside of Europe has lead to this.
		
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Plus England are a better team than they have often been


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Lack of quality outside of Europe has lead to this.
		
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I don’t know what relevance the rankings 

But the No1 club is Belgium ? Then Brazil at 2 

The teams that won the last three major comps - France , Italy and Argentina - all below England 🤷‍♂️. Makes it a bit of a joke


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## Beezerk (Sep 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t know what relevance the rankings

But the No1 club is Belgium ? Then Brazil at 2

The teams that won the last three major comps - France , Italy and Argentina - all below England 🤷‍♂️. Makes it a bit of a joke
		
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Which proves why you should always take these rankings with a pinch of salt 👌 I think any reasonably sane football fan knows England is a top 10 ranked side and can maybe beat a lower ranked team on a good day.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Which proves why you should always take these rankings with a pinch of salt 👌 I think any reasonably sane football fan knows England is a top 10 ranked side and can maybe beat a lower ranked team on a good day.
		
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i can understand Rankings in individual sports where you are mainly playing the same fields and against the same oppo and then they are used for entrance into comps etc 

They use the coefficients for the European club comps which is based on results in that comp but international football rankings - seem bizarre


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 16, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I’m not sure who’s better than them on paper but I’d fancy France, Italy and Belgium on their best day to beat England on their best day but I don’t think there’s much in it
		
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It’s ok saying “on their best day” but you can’t give points for what teams can potentially do.


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## Kellfire (Sep 16, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			It’s ok saying “on their best day” but you can’t give points for what teams can potentially do.
		
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Well those three teams have their best days more often than England do, I was just being generous to my kind English hosts.


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## 3offTheTee (Sep 16, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Interesting that England have reached their highest position ever in the FIFA world rankings (3rd)
		
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Chris, sure some people on here will NOT give any credit to The Manager for their position!!!


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## chrisd (Sep 16, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Chris, sure some people on here will NOT give any credit to The Manager for their position!!!
		
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Sad world that, despite a much better run in the Euros than many expected that people are of the view that it was in spite of the manager and NOT because of the manager.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Tashyboy selling out and going in the padded seats eh, who would've thought eh Tashy lad😁😁😉
		
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😁👍 it was a last minute, well a couple of da ago decision to go. We went in £45 seats as against the £20 ones. Very nice indeed. I went with the intentions of possibly treating grandson to a shirt. 🤬 £75 for a shirt with de Bryune on the back for a kid. But we will knock 20% off. £60 for a kids shirt. I will defend my tram to the hilt when I see fit, But on this occasion, the people that sanction that are robbing stewards.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 16, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Sad world that, despite a much better run in the Euros than many expected that people are of the view that it was in spite of the manager and NOT because of the manager.
		
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You can put me in that category.


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## Billysboots (Sep 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Played 2 good teams when it mattered and  crumbled.

I know what my own 2 eyes seen, England are not the 3rd best team in Europe, nevermind the world.
		
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Spot on.


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## chrisd (Sep 16, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			You can put me in that category.
		
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Good for you


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## 3offTheTee (Sep 16, 2021)

Saw Henderson interviewed along with Pep after the footie yesterday. On both tables were a Heineken bottle and another company bot at 90%.
Has anybody any idea, LP is usually good at this type of information how much companies pay for this privilege!


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## Kellfire (Sep 16, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Saw Henderson interviewed along with Pep after the footie yesterday. On both tables were a Heineken bottle and another company bot at 90%.
Has anybody any idea, LP is usually good at this type of information how much companies pay for this privilege!
		
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Heineken are an official sponsor of the CL so it’s no surprise they get their products up front and centre.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 16, 2021)

Rice said he wants to play more box to box

Run from halfway line to score

Not a bad game at all


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## Tashyboy (Sep 16, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Good for you
		
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Yet bad for England fans who want to see trophies.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Saw Henderson interviewed along with Pep after the footie yesterday. On both tables were a Heineken bottle and another company bot at 90%.
Has anybody any idea, LP is usually good at this type of information how much companies pay for this privilege!
		
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Sole companies prob pay around £100mil for 3/4 years worth of sponsership - Heineken prob pay a bit more because they sponsered Euro 2020 i think


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Sad world that, despite a much better run in the Euros than many expected that people are of the view that it was in spite of the manager and NOT because of the manager.
		
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The manager had a huge part in them gelling as a team - as a man manager he appears to excellent. Bit imo tactically he is lacking and that’s were the team were let down - both the runs in the WC and Euros were good runs even if the opposition wasn’t the strongest but both times it’s fair to question what would have happened if a more tactically aware manager was in charge


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## chrisd (Sep 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The manager had a huge part in them gelling as a team - as a man manager he appears to excellent. Bit imo tactically he is lacking and that’s were the team were let down - both the runs in the WC and Euros were good runs even if the opposition wasn’t the strongest but both times it’s fair to question what would have happened if a more tactically aware manager was in charge
		
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Perhaps he used the tactics that he felt a very young team, inexperienced at that level, could cope with ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Perhaps he used the tactics that he felt a very young team, inexperienced at that level, could cope with ?
		
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They are international players with many of them playing in the Prem for top managers with some playing in top leagues abroad and in the CL ? If they can cope more attacking tactics in the Prem why couldn’t they cope with it in the Euros ?

And it’s also tactics including substitutions and leaving on players under performing , bringing players on with a minute to go just to take a penalty , it was head scratching and something that a top level manager wouldn’t do. 

If Southgate left the England job do you think any top level club in the main leagues would look to give him a managers job ? I don’t think so


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## fundy (Sep 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They are international players with many of them playing in the Prem for top managers with some playing in top leagues abroad and in the CL ? If they can cope more attacking tactics in the Prem why couldn’t they cope with it in the Euros ?

And it’s also tactics including substitutions and leaving on players under performing , bringing players on with a minute to go just to take a penalty , it was head scratching and something that a top level manager wouldn’t do. 

If Southgate left the England job do you think any top level club in the main leagues would look to give him a managers job ? I don’t think so
		
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Been linked with Spurs a few times


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			Been linked with Spurs a few times 

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Point proven 😁


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## fundy (Sep 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Point proven 😁
		
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ill tee em up


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## chrisd (Sep 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They are international players with many of them playing in the Prem for top managers with some playing in top leagues abroad and in the CL ? If they can cope more attacking tactics in the Prem why couldn’t they cope with it in the Euros ?

And it’s also tactics including substitutions and leaving on players under performing , bringing players on with a minute to go just to take a penalty , it was head scratching and something that a top level manager wouldn’t do.

If Southgate left the England job do you think any top level club in the main leagues would look to give him a managers job ? I don’t think so
		
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They were young players and having to learn to play together it's not the same as playing in the PL with players they train with day in day out . Southgate did what he thought was right, it's so easy to criticise afterwards. Look at the fancied teams with experienced managers who went out to teams that were thought incapable of beating them. I'd have taken losing in the final pre tournament, as would most of the countries footy fans. Southgate got the job and has, and is, doing his best and he and the team are still learning. I think they all will improve, including Southgate, but his record is still one of Englands best managers whatever anyone says to rubbish it


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2021)

chrisd said:



			They were young players and having to learn to play together it's not the same as playing in the PL with players they train with day in day out . Southgate did what he thought was right, it's so easy to criticise afterwards. Look at the fancied teams with experienced managers who went out to teams that were thought incapable of beating them. I'd have taken losing in the final pre tournament, as would most of the countries footy fans. Southgate got the job and has, and is, doing his best and he and the team are still learning. I think they all will improve, including Southgate, but his record is still one of Englands best managers whatever anyone says to rubbish it
		
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It was Englands best chance to win a tournament, majority of the games on home soil in front of the fans , with the path being cleared in front of them - can’t use the young players excuse when the players play at the highest level and a number of them recently winning the PL and the CL. And it wasn’t just hindsight , people had the same opinion after the World Cup and during the Euros -that team was more than good enough to beat Italy , and if that is the best Southgate can do then if England want to take that next step and win tournaments then maybe they need to look at the next level of manager. 

England have a talent pool that doesn’t come around often and they imo need a better manager to get the very best out of the players - Southgate imo doesn’t do that 

stats wise for competitive games - Southgates record is still below a significant number of others 

https://www.myfootballfacts.com/england_footy/england_national_football_team/england-managers/


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## Tashyboy (Sep 16, 2021)

chrisd said:



			They were young players and having to learn to play together it's not the same as playing in the PL with players they train with day in day out . Southgate did what he thought was right, it's so easy to criticise afterwards. Look at the fancied teams with experienced managers who went out to teams that were thought incapable of beating them. I'd have taken losing in the final pre tournament, as would most of the countries footy fans. Southgate got the job and has, and is, doing his best and he and the team are still learning. I think they all will improve, including Southgate, but his record is still one of Englands best managers whatever anyone says to rubbish it
		
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Southgate had been a manager of England for 5 years, not 5 minutes. You talk of players, it’s not the same as in the Prem league. Your dead right.I have never seen one single prem team play with 7 defensive players in one team.


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## chrisd (Sep 16, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I have never seen one single prem team play with 7 defensive players in one team.
		
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My team have done it for their entire stay in the Pl and managed to stay in the PL as a result


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2021)

chrisd said:



			My team have done it for their entire stay in the Pl and managed to stay in the PL as a result
		
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Would you be happy with that if the team was full of high quality attacking players and that’s also trying to keep a team in a league over a season not trying to win a tournament 

Look at the list England had 

Kane , Rashford , Sancho , Saka , Foden , Grealish , Sterling , Mount - hard to see many teams having a better depth of attacking talent in the tournament


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2021)

Even with VAR the big clubs are getting the decisions going their way.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Even with VAR the big clubs are getting the decisions going their way.
		
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I heard Walker got sent off and Southampton got a penalty, but then VAR reversed it. The guy on Soccer Saturday seemed to think penalty was the right decision.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I heard Walker got sent off and Southampton got a penalty, but then VAR reversed it. The guy on Soccer Saturday seemed to think penalty was the right decision.
		
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Penalty was, sending off wasn't under double jeopardy rule as Walker tried to play the ball. Also a penalty for Burnley not given against Arsenal.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Even with VAR the big clubs are getting the decisions going their way.
		
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Seeing as VAR overturned a offside goal your comment would imply Southampton are a big club. I agree 😁👍


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Seeing as VAR overturned a offside goal your comment would imply Southampton are a big club. I agree 😁👍
		
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You mean the one where the assistant ref flagged for offside and VAR confirmed the decision?


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## Tashyboy (Sep 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			You mean the one where the assistant ref flagged for offside and VAR confirmed the decision?
		
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That’s correct and it was the correct decision, so how did it favour a big club as you mentioned.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			That’s correct and it was the correct decision, so how did it favour a big club as you mentioned.
		
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It didn't favour anyone. Had it not been in use, the same decision would have been made.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 18, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It didn't favour anyone. Had it not been in use, the same decision would have been made.
		
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Exactly,  but I was not the one that suggested VAR is favouring the big clubs post 15298 😉


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## Swango1980 (Sep 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Exactly,  but I was not the one that suggested VAR is favouring the big clubs post 15298 😉
		
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But you are just picking one incident that is unrelated to the point being suggested in that post.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 18, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			But you are just picking one incident that is unrelated to the point being suggested in that post.
		
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Exactly, if someone suggests VAR is favouring big clubs and a correct decision suggests otherwise, why is it wrong to suggest the initial comment is wrong.  And how exactly is it unrelated, when VAR overturned a decision it is 100% related.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			But you are just picking one incident that is unrelated to the point being suggested in that post.
		
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He's on a wind up trying to suggest that Southampton are the big club that got the decision in their favour rather than address the point that the ref over turned a decision against Man City and correctly revoked the red card, but incorrectly reversed the penalty decision.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Exactly, if someone suggests VAR is favouring big clubs and a correct decision suggests otherwise, why is it wrong to suggest the initial comment is wrong. * And how exactly is it unrelated, when VAR overturned a decision* it is 100% related.
		
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VAR didn't overturn it. The assistant ref flagged for offside and VAR confirmed it. Nothing was overturned in the decision you're talking about.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Exactly, if someone suggests VAR is favouring big clubs and a correct decision suggests otherwise, why is it wrong to suggest the initial comment is wrong.  And how exactly is it unrelated, when VAR overturned a decision it is 100% related.
		
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I don't think you understand the definition of "overturned" which is unfortunate.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Exactly, if someone suggests VAR is favouring big clubs and a correct decision suggests otherwise, why is it wrong to suggest the initial comment is wrong.  And how exactly is it unrelated, when VAR overturned a decision it is 100% related.
		
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VAR didn’t “overturn” the offside call - it confirmed that the offside call was correct 

VAR went in favour of the “big club” when they overturned the penalty and red card


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439259152514170887


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2021)

Palace unlucky not to have been given a penalty against Liverpool when the score was 0-0. I wonder what the decision would have been if a Liverpool player had gone down under that challenge in front of the Kop.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Palace unlucky not to have been given a penalty against Liverpool when the score was 0-0. I wonder what the decision would have been if a Liverpool player had gone down under that challenge in front of the Kop.
		
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No doubt the German cheerleader would have been trying to influence the officials


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2021)

So that's Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City who all should have had penalties awarded against them today but didn't. I'm sure that it's all just a coincidence that they happen to be three of the big 6 teams playing against smaller clubs. VAR should be binned and just let the refs get it wrong on their own in favour of the big teams like the good old days.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2021)

Why do players take their shirt off after scoring?
They know it’s a yellow,idiots.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 19, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Why do players take their shirt off after scoring?
They know it’s a yellow,idiots.
		
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They think a yellow is worth paying to show off their muscles. Or, they think they have a vitally important message to get across by writing a message on their under shirt. Vanity


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So that's Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City who all should have had penalties awarded against them today but didn't. I'm sure that it's all just a coincidence that they happen to be three of the big 6 teams playing against smaller clubs. VAR should be binned and just let the refs get it wrong on their own in favour of the big teams like the good old days.
		
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Not seen a definitive reply of the Benteke one but they said on 5Live it the exact type of challenge that would have resulted in a penalty last season because there was “contact” but this season with the contact having to be one that makes the player go down as opposed to the player going down feeling the contact 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			They think a yellow is worth paying to show off their muscles. Or, they think they have a vitally important message to get across by writing a message on their under shirt. Vanity
		
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Guess will depend on the player and the situation- Salah did it yesterday when he scored at a vital moment and just seemed to get caught up it all -vanity certainly not something associated with Salah


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## SatchFan (Sep 19, 2021)

I still can't believe that after all this time these overpaid morons are still removing their shirts after scoring.


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## Rlburnside (Sep 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So that's Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City who all should have had penalties awarded against them today but didn't. I'm sure that it's all just a coincidence that they happen to be three of the big 6 teams playing against smaller clubs. VAR should be binned and just let the refs get it wrong on their own in favour of the big teams like the good old days.
		
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I’ve just seen the Walker tackle, it’s good the refs are going to the tv monitors but it beggars belief that he didn’t award a penalty. 

Hard luck on Southampton.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not seen a definitive reply of the Benteke one but they said on 5Live it the exact type of challenge that would have resulted in a penalty last season because there was “contact” but this season with the contact having to be one that makes the player go down as opposed to the player going down feeling the contact 🤷‍♂️
		
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The Liverpool defender stepped across and stuck his leg out to block Benteke who was going for the ball. It looked like it took Benteke down rather than him looking for it. Would have had to have been a red card as well as the defender wasn't trying to play the ball.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Guess will depend on the player and the situation- Salah did it yesterday when he scored at a vital moment and just seemed to get caught up it all -vanity certainly not something associated with Salah
		
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😂😂


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 19, 2021)

SatchFan said:



			I still can't believe that after all this time these overpaid morons are still removing their shirts after scoring.
		
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Just seems like a stupid way to get a yellow card,one missed timed tackle after & you’re off.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Palace unlucky not to have been given a penalty against Liverpool when the score was 0-0. I wonder what the decision would have been if a Liverpool player had gone down under that challenge in front of the Kop.
		
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From my seat down the opposite end I thought it was a pen. I've seen the replay on MOTD and I thought Benteke made a meal of it, not enough for a pen imo.

Had it been a Liverpool player gone down it'd been the same result. The days of the kop influencing refs has long gone.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2021)

Yesterday was the best performance from Palace I can remember at Anfield.

Viera certainly has them playing football  and it's a huge improvement on the dross they've served up under previous managers.

It was also an example of why Zaha is still there. Threw himself to the floor at least 4 times yesterday. A waste of a talent.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			From my seat down the opposite end I thought it was a pen. I've seen the replay on MOTD and I thought Benteke made a meal of it, not enough for a pen imo.

Had it been a Liverpool player gone down it'd been the same result. The days of the kop influencing refs has long gone.
		
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That's fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. Even if it is wrong. 😀 I think if a Liverpool player had gone down the ref would have given it and VAR wouldn't have overturned it as not a clear and obvious error. 

I do think you're wrong on the Kop not influencing the ref. And that's the same for any big home crowd whether it's at Chelsea, Man Utd or elsewhere not just Liverpool.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 19, 2021)

Just picking up from sky that Jimmy Greaves has passed away, a true Legend. RIP jimmy


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## Swango1980 (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Guess will depend on the player and the situation- Salah did it yesterday when he scored at a vital moment and just seemed to get caught up it all -vanity certainly not something associated with Salah
		
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I've scored lots of goals in the past, some of which have excited me vastly. Despite getting caught up in the moment, I've never ever even considered taking my shirt off.

However, if I was ripped, and millions of people were watching, maybe it is something I might do. Vanity would lead me to do it.

Virtually all of us have some vanity in us. It is probably a vital requirement for a top class sportsman, supreme inner confidence that will also lead to some vanity. So, I have absolutely no doubt it was vanity that lead Salah to take his shirt off.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 19, 2021)

Sad to hear news of the passing of Jimmy Greaves…🙁


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I've scored lots of goals in the past, some of which have excited me vastly. Despite getting caught up in the moment, I've never ever even considered taking my shirt off.

However, if I was ripped, and millions of people were watching, maybe it is something I might do. Vanity would lead me to do it.

Virtually all of us have some vanity in us. It is probably a vital requirement for a top class sportsman, supreme inner confidence that will also lead to some vanity. So, I have absolutely no doubt it was vanity that lead Salah to take his shirt off.
		
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How many of those goals were in front of 50k fans playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world - I don’t think any of us can comprehend that sort of level of feeling when scoring. And the last person I would ever see think about how his body looks in front of the fans is Salah - he isn’t ronaldo


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## arnieboy (Sep 19, 2021)

My favourite player of all time.
I was lucky enough to have met him a couple of times, once at an Evening With event at a local non-league club and on the first tee at Dornoch. 
RIP Jimmy, a true legend.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many of those goals were in front of 50k fans playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world - I don’t think any of us can comprehend that sort of level of feeling when scoring.* And the last person I would ever see think about how his body looks in front of the fans is Salah - he isn’t ronaldo*

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Yeah Definitely no vanity when it comes to Salah,unlike Ronaldo 😳😂😂😂


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## Rlburnside (Sep 19, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sad to hear news of the passing of Jimmy Greaves…🙁
		
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Yes that’s sad to hear , I was lucky to see him many times in his prime, going to see him when I was a 14 year old lad at White Heart Lane was magical.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes that’s sad to hear , I was lucky to see him many times in his prime, going to see him when I was a 14 year old lad at White Heart Lane was magical.
		
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Saint and Greavsie was the best football program - he was brilliant. Think we are getting to that stage now were those sports stars from 60-80’s will be passing away - sad news


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 19, 2021)

When I was a kid there was very little televised football so it wasn't easy to see players  other than live at your own Club.

Nevertheless that didn't stop Greavesie becoming a hero to this Brummie lad.

Loved the way he made goal scoring look so easy and I just wanted to model my own play on him.

And in later life I met him and he again didn't disappoint.

RIP Jimmy.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many of those goals were in front of 50k fans playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world - I don’t think any of us can comprehend that sort of level of feeling when scoring. And the last person I would ever see think about how his body looks in front of the fans is Salah - he isn’t ronaldo
		
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Vanity when Ronaldo does it. Getting carried up in the moment when Salah does it. Nice one.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Vanity when Ronaldo does it. Getting carried up in the moment when Salah does it. Nice one.
		
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Ronaldo clearly never played for one of the biggest clubs in the world 😬 oh wait


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Vanity when Ronaldo does it. Getting carried up in the moment when Salah does it. Nice one.
		
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That’s just my opinion - they are different types of people and personalities and will act different


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## Swango1980 (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s just my opinion - they are different types of people and personalities and will act different
		
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Sounds like they acted the same. Both have taken their shirts off, right?


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Sounds like they acted the same. Both have taken their shirts off, right?
		
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You've missed one important difference. One plays for Liverpool and so is above reproach. The other plays for Man Utd so is obviously a vain show pony.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			You've missed one important difference. One plays for Liverpool and so is above reproach. The other plays for Man Utd so is obviously a vain show pony.
		
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Just like spitting Jamie and punching Steven .. saints compared to anyone else


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

They all count


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2021)

Fabianksi🤦


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Might have been offside last year but quick review nothing wrong with that 

He seems a different animal now.. just seems to be there to enjoy himself?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Fabianksi🤦
		
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Hoping aerola will be phased in soon


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

And now Man Utd get away with a clear penalty. Hahaha. What a weekend.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			And now Man Utd get away with a clear penalty. Hahaha. What a weekend.
		
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I'm glad you said it we (father in law and I) very much like what was that decision? He was very quick to go against soucek .. but for what? It was him fouled if anything


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'm glad you said it we (father in law and I) very much like what was that decision? He was very quick to go against soucek .. but for what? It was him fouled if anything
		
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Wan-Bissaka slide tackled a player who didn’t even have the ball. That was ridiculous.


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

He made the most of it but that’s a penalty on Ronaldo, too. So those two cancel each other out.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			He made the most of it but that’s a penalty on Ronaldo, too. So those two cancel each other out.
		
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Last season would be they seem to be letting go the indicated contact ones


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Last season would be they seem to be letting go the indicated contact ones
		
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The defender steps right across him, nowhere near the ball though. You wonder if Ronaldo hadn’t performed the histrionics if he’d have got it.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			The defender steps right across him, nowhere near the ball though. You wonder if Ronaldo hadn’t performed the histrionics if he’d have got it.
		
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Maybe. We seeing the less pleasing side of his game now 

But there you go

Whatever happens been an enjoyable game


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Jesse can't stop scoring at the London stadium

Respect for not celebrating


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

VAR’s having a bad weekend. Three penalties not given today.


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## Billysboots (Sep 19, 2021)

Oh my word. How is that not a penalty? 91st minute on Ronaldo and Zouma has got nothing of the ball. Nothing.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 19, 2021)

VAR is an absolute disgrace


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## Papas1982 (Sep 19, 2021)

VAR has had a stinker today.

1 of 4 legit penalties given 🙄🙄

Noble 😬😂😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Worst decision Moyes has ever made for us 

Sentiment has no place in football


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

It’s like West Ham didn’t see the Euro final…


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2021)

Feel for Noble there, Moyes has hung him out to dry.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 19, 2021)

I've been angry enough with VAR in past, but someone needs sacked after the way it was used today. Not sure if the officials just flip a coin to decide upon decisions


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			VAR is an absolute disgrace
		
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Defo pen but then least 1 of Ronaldos must have been


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Feel for Noble there, Moyes has hung him out to dry.
		
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Great pen taker but to bring on just in that second? Baffling


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Feel for Noble there, Moyes has hung him out to dry.
		
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Surely he asked to take it?


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

Oh well. If nothing else that was entertaining.


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## Beezerk (Sep 19, 2021)

Wow, absolutely laughable ending to the game 
So is Noble the usual penalty take or is Moyes just a clown?


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 19, 2021)

Mark Noble's touch map for today's match. 😀


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Surely he asked to take it?
		
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I dunno i couldn't hear him, I'm in our house 😉

Assuming he did, it's on the managers head. There's a few capable penalty takers on that pitch, there's no need to gamble.

If he never then Moyes is a bigger divvy than I thought he was. 

I know most, if not all clubs have a designated pen taker but that was madness.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Just like spitting Jamie and punching Steven .. saints compared to anyone else
		
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Even for your standards that pretty pathetic


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## Swango1980 (Sep 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Defo pen but then least 1 of Ronaldos must have been
		
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I agree, arm was out. But both Ronaldo incidents were penalties. I think the VAR ref was watching the Leicester game at the time.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Wow, absolutely laughable ending to the game 
So is Noble the usual penalty take or is Moyes just a clown? 

Click to expand...

Both.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2021)

Bosses boss, leaders lead.


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## Slime (Sep 19, 2021)

The most entertaining league in the world.
At least justice was finally served.


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## hairball_89 (Sep 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Defo pen but then least 1 of Ronaldos must have been
		
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Was watching the Brighton game so I didn't see any of them. However I can safely say that based on Ronaldo being involved absolutely none of them were pens. Absolutely categorically unbiased and never pens!


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Even for your standards that pretty pathetic
		
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We saw a lot worse by a few others during the Euros 😏


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## Rlburnside (Sep 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I agree, arm was out. But both Ronaldo incidents were penalties. I think the VAR ref was watching the Leicester game at the time.
		
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The first one was never a penalty the second one was. 

I was disappointed for West Ham thought they deserved a draw, Rice made me laugh after he made that long burst at the end he looked absolutely knackered when he walked back, only 22 and he’s very impressive


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I agree, arm was out. But both Ronaldo incidents were penalties. I think the VAR ref was watching the Leicester game at the time.
		
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What about the 3rd one? Coufal was one .. cresswell pull back 2 and zouma 3


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I dunno i couldn't hear him, I'm in our house 😉

Assuming he did, it's on the managers head. There's a few capable penalty takers on that pitch, there's no need to gamble.

If he never then Moyes is a bigger divvy than I thought he was.

I know most, if not all clubs have a designated pen taker but that was madness.
		
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It's a thing you can do if 2-1 up not 2-1 down


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## Swango1980 (Sep 19, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			The first one was never a penalty the second one was.

I was disappointed for West Ham thought they deserved a draw, Rice made me laugh after he made that long burst at the end he looked absolutely knackered when he walked back, only 22 and he’s very impressive
		
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The first one, where the defender threw out his leg, got nowhere near the ball and brought Ronaldo down? How dare Ronaldo get in the way of a rash challenge.

West Ham deserved the draw? Based on what, they managed to stop a a side massively on top from going ahead for so long? I guess they can be given credit for that, but teams that have their backs to the wall often concede eventually


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## Fade and Die (Sep 19, 2021)

Awful decision by Moyes and shows a lack of faith in Rice. Hope he holds his hands up to that. Also hope Noble hangs his boots up tonight, he’s hanging around the place like a bad smell. “club Captain”🤬


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439571923340496899
🤬🤬🤬 what is it with some football fans that still believe it’s acceptable


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Even for your standards that pretty pathetic
		
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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Awful decision by Moyes and shows a lack of faith in Rice. Hope he holds his hands up to that. Also hope Noble hangs his boots up tonight, he’s hanging around the place like a bad smell. “club Captain”🤬
		
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Been saying this for ages. Should have been sent to the glue factory last season.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			The first one was never a penalty the second one was.

I was disappointed for West Ham thought they deserved a draw, Rice made me laugh after he made that long burst at the end he looked absolutely knackered when he walked back, only 22 and he’s very impressive
		
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And some fans don't rate him


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## Billysboots (Sep 19, 2021)

I’m surprised nobody has raised the issue of players having to be on a pitch when a penalty is awarded to actually take it. 

Personally, I’m really not comfortable with a club being allowed to use a sub specifically for the purpose of taking a penalty already awarded. It’s bordering on special teams tactics that I used to see in American Football when I followed it years ago.

By all means bring on a ‘keeper with a shootout on the horizon, or penalty takers for the same reason (notwithstanding the fact it doesn’t always pay off 🙄). But West Ham being awarded a penalty and being allowed to bring Noble on for him to take it just doesn’t sit right. It should be taken by a player who was on the pitch when the spot kick was actually awarded.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m surprised nobody has raised the issue of players having to be on a pitch when a penalty is awarded to actually take it.

Personally, I’m really not comfortable with a club being allowed to use a sub specifically for the purpose of taking a penalty already awarded. It’s bordering on special teams tactics that I used to see in American Football when I followed it years ago.

By all means bring on a ‘keeper with a shootout on the horizon, or penalty takers for the same reason (notwithstanding the fact it doesn’t always pay off 🙄). But West Ham being awarded a penalty and being allowed to bring Noble on for him to take it just doesn’t sit right. It should be taken by a player who was on the pitch when the spot kick was actually awarded.
		
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Would you day the same about corners, free kicks, throw ins and kick offs?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m surprised nobody has raised the issue of players having to be on a pitch when a penalty is awarded to actually take it.

Personally, I’m really not comfortable with a club being allowed to use a sub specifically for the purpose of taking a penalty already awarded. It’s bordering on special teams tactics that I used to see in American Football when I followed it years ago.

By all means bring on a ‘keeper with a shootout on the horizon, or penalty takers for the same reason (notwithstanding the fact it doesn’t always pay off 🙄). But West Ham being awarded a penalty and being allowed to bring Noble on for him to take it just doesn’t sit right. It should be taken by a player who was on the pitch when the spot kick was actually awarded.
		
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I've always been in the camp of the player who wins the pen should have to take it


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## Billysboots (Sep 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Would you day the same about corners, free kicks, throw ins and kick offs?
		
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There’s a bit of a difference, to be fair! 

Whilst I get that some players are better at free kicks than others, I really do think there’s more at stake with penalties, which are absolutely clear cut scoring opportunities.

If I was a West Ham fan and I saw Bruno Fernandes trot on from the bench to grab a point from a 93rd minute penalty I’d be a tad miffed.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m surprised nobody has raised the issue of players having to be on a pitch when a penalty is awarded to actually take it.

Personally, I’m really not comfortable with a club being allowed to use a sub specifically for the purpose of taking a penalty already awarded. It’s bordering on special teams tactics that I used to see in American Football when I followed it years ago.

By all means bring on a ‘keeper with a shootout on the horizon, or penalty takers for the same reason (notwithstanding the fact it doesn’t always pay off 🙄). But West Ham being awarded a penalty and being allowed to bring Noble on for him to take it just doesn’t sit right. It should be taken by a player who was on the pitch when the spot kick was actually awarded.
		
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The problem is, substitutions are made when play has stopped. throw ins, free kicks, corners and penalties.


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## Billysboots (Sep 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The problem is, substitutions are made when play has stopped. throw ins, free kicks, corners and penalties.
		
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I get that, Tash, but an oncoming substitute’s very first involvement should not, in my view, be to take a penalty just awarded. 

Just my opinion.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

Looks like this game zero thing is going to Include the goals as well 

Apparently as well Kane is staying at Spurs


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## 4LEX (Sep 19, 2021)

Gotta say that West Ham v Utd game was a cracker. Both teams played well, Utd going forward and West Ham defending. Man Utd are such a better team with Ronaldo in it, he's ridiculous. Holds it up, great passing, movement and just runs the attack and gives them the focal point they've missed for years. He should've scored a few more today though.

The penalty decisions were horrible in that game. He was fouled twice and nothing given, not even a review. The second was stonewall. Shaw's handball was the right decision but amazing it wasn't given at the time. VAR and the ref lost control and it looked like due to their mistakes, they might ignore the handball to "even things up" at the end. 

Get rid of it, simple as that.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I get that, Tash, but an oncoming substitute’s very first involvement should not, in my view, be to take a penalty just awarded.

Just my opinion.
		
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And that I very much respect. 👍


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## Orikoru (Sep 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Worst decision Moyes has ever made for us

Sentiment has no place in football
		
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Sentiment? I think the issue might've been nobody else in your side can take a penalty. Still an awful decision though, when will managers learn it's not easy to walk onto a pitch stone cold and bury a penalty with your first kick?


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## Slime (Sep 19, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			The first one was never a penalty the second one was.

I was disappointed for West Ham* thought they deserved a draw*, Rice made me laugh after he made that long burst at the end he looked absolutely knackered when he walked back, only 22 and he’s very impressive
		
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Not on my telly, not even close!
We're you borrowing Phil's glasses.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Sentiment? I think the issue might've been nobody else in your side can take a penalty. Still an awful decision though, when will managers learn it's not easy to walk onto a pitch stone cold and bury a penalty with your first kick?
		
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Na it was sentiment, last min in his last season 

We have had pens before and he hasn't come on

Rice can take them 

Soucek has a brilliant record 

Yarmeleko aswell 

Noble was pure get him on and give him a goal


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			Not on my telly, not even close!
We're you borrowing Phil's glasses. 

Click to expand...

Your right.. we should have won poor keeping 🤣


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## Orikoru (Sep 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m surprised nobody has raised the issue of players having to be on a pitch when a penalty is awarded to actually take it.

Personally, I’m really not comfortable with a club being allowed to use a sub specifically for the purpose of taking a penalty already awarded. It’s bordering on special teams tactics that I used to see in American Football when I followed it years ago.

By all means bring on a ‘keeper with a shootout on the horizon, or penalty takers for the same reason (notwithstanding the fact it doesn’t always pay off 🙄). But West Ham being awarded a penalty and being allowed to bring Noble on for him to take it just doesn’t sit right. It should be taken by a player who was on the pitch when the spot kick was actually awarded.
		
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No real need to make a rule for it when it basically never works! We saw at the Euros and we've seen it before with Vardy against Spurs a while back.


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I get that, Tash, but an oncoming substitute’s very first involvement should not, in my view, be to take a penalty just awarded.

Just my opinion.
		
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I think it’s great. Twice now this year it’s made me very happy. 😀


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## Orikoru (Sep 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Na it was sentiment, last min in his last season

We have had pens before and he hasn't come on

Rice can take them

Soucek has a brilliant record

Yarmeleko aswell

Noble was pure get him on and give him a goal
		
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The interviewer I just saw said that you'd missed 4 of your last 5 or something, but Moyes claimed he wasn't thinking about that, just Noble's record of scoring them. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The interviewer I just saw said that you'd missed 4 of your last 5 or something, but Moyes claimed he wasn't thinking about that, just Noble's record of scoring them. 🤷🏻‍♂️
		
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Moyes is covering his own mistake

We have had misses since going with sentiment

Antonio for getting him up the scoring charts (too laid back. Awful pen taker)

Rice to give him more goals (not a natural taker)

Soucek in the squad has a very good record .. just never given the chance for us.


Even cresswell would leather it


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

Chelsea start the second half a far different team - Spurs don’t seem to have any level of creativity and it looks like it’s down to Kane or Son to get something but they don’t look great .


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## Orikoru (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Chelsea start the second half a far different team - Spurs don’t seem to have any level of creativity and it looks like it’s down to Kane or Son to get something but they don’t look great .
		
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We were actually decent first half. This is more like the game I was expecting. Ndombele was lively but doesn't have the fitness. With Lucas and Bergwijn both out we have no pace to come on a try and change it, so we're screwed now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			We were actually decent first half. This is more like the game I was expecting. Ndombele was lively but doesn't have the fitness. With Lucas and Bergwijn both out we have no pace to come on a try and change it, so we're screwed now.
		
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It wasn’t a great first half - lot of effort but not much quality going forward from either side , Chelsea stepped up in the second half and Spurs just don’t seem to have anything to counter with , not a great game tbh.


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## Dando (Sep 19, 2021)

Werner is rubbish. I bet he even struggles to finish his dinner


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

14 months ago Werner was hit property and looked like he had all the tools to score a lot in the Prem especially his pace and runs he made - but his finishing just disappeared, think he would do well with us but expect to see him back to Germany sooner rather than later

3 nil now - Spurs battered


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## Slime (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			14 months ago Werner was hit property and looked like he had all the tools to score a lot in the Prem especially his pace and runs he made - but his finishing just disappeared, think he would do well with us but expect to see him back to Germany sooner rather than later

*3 nil now - Spurs battered*

Click to expand...

They're only three points above Arsenal.


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## GG26 (Sep 19, 2021)

Still trying to work out how Leicester lost.

i. Brighton awarded a penalty for Vestergaard's handball, yet Maupay is holding on to Vestergaard with both arms preventing him from jumping.  It's a clear foul on the person whose arm it hit and how VAR didn't pick that up I have no idea.
ii.  Leicester have two goals disallowed for offside, both becuase Harvey Barnes is apparently interfering with play when standing in the vicinity of the goalkeeper whilst stood in an offside position.  For the first I can see the argument that he was impeding the goalkeepers view, but he certainly wasn't for the second.  Even with a clear view the keeper wouldn't have got anywhere near either of them.


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## Rlburnside (Sep 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The first one, where the defender threw out his leg, got nowhere near the ball and brought Ronaldo down? How dare Ronaldo get in the way of a rash challenge.

West Ham deserved the draw? Based on what, they managed to stop a a side massively on top from going ahead for so long? I guess they can be given credit for that, but teams that have their backs to the wall often concede eventually
		
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Hey I’m just a neutral 👍 but I was hoping for West Ham to win. 

West Ham had a good spell in the second half and no point in the game did I think they were being overrun.


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## 4LEX (Sep 19, 2021)

No striker, no City title challenge?

Two way battle between Chelsea and Utd?

Or do Liverpool with no injuries and the manager creep into the equation?

Whatever it means a four way title battle


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## Rlburnside (Sep 19, 2021)

The reason we lost today was money, can’t compete with the Chelsea squad. 

But after a decent first half the the players lost it, no desire, no fight at least put a shift in and try a bit harder, no excuse for that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

4LEX said:



			No striker, no City title challenge?

Two way battle between Chelsea and Utd?

Or do Liverpool with no injuries and the manager creep into the equation?

Whatever it means a four way title battle 

Click to expand...

Liverpool are very much in the equation - it’s great that some keep writing them off but that first 11 is still the best in the league and in Salah prob arguably have the best player in the Prem at the moment , City have started a little slowly but will no doubt hit form , Chelsea look solid throughout the team - Man Utd still imo are the 4th favourites because of that midfield and the manager.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 19, 2021)

4LEX said:



			No striker, no City title challenge?

Two way battle between Chelsea and Utd?

Or do Liverpool with no injuries and the manager creep into the equation?

Whatever it means a four way title battle 

Click to expand...

I certainly hope so.


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpool are very much in the equation - it’s great that some keep writing them off but that first 11 is still the best in the league and in Salah prob arguably have the best player in the Prem at the moment , City have started a little slowly but will no doubt hit form , Chelsea look solid throughout the team - Man Utd still imo are the 4th favourites because of that midfield and the manager.
		
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Your first eleven is behind both Chelsea and City. Blinkers off.


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2021)

The xG Philosophy @xGPhilosophy
42m
This season:

◎ Harry Kane: 0.71(xG) in 283 mins
◎ Mark Noble: 0.77(xG) in 2 mins


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			The xG Philosophy @xGPhilosophy
42m
This season:

◎ Harry Kane: 0.71(xG) in 283 mins
◎ Mark Noble: 0.77(xG) in 2 mins



Click to expand...

Arsenal goals in the premier League all season ... 2 in 450 mins 

Think the award for the most embarrassing London club is still red 😬


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Arsenal goals in the premier League all season ... 2 in 450 mins

*Think the award for the most embarrassing London club is still red *😬
		
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So far. Only 2 points behind West Ham and 3 behind Spurs. Might be a bit early to be sending that award towards Arsenal.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			So far. Only 2 points behind West Ham and 3 behind Spurs. Might be a bit early to be sending that award towards Arsenal.
		
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Trying not to be biased but the football we played whilst being beaten today and having a vastly healthier goal difference at the same time I'd rather that than the other two who both seem lost on and off pitch

I mean both have much better players than us but are having some real problems


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Trying not to be biased but the football we played whilst being beaten today and having a vastly healthier goal difference at the same time I'd rather that than the other two who both seem lost on and off pitch

I mean both have much better players than us but are having some real problems
		
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Haven't seen the game today which is why I haven't commented on any of the penalty decisions, or the match in general. I thought Spurs started well today and were putting Chelsea under pressure with their pressing but the 2nd half was a completely different story. Arsenal have been very poor so far. Haven't seen enough of West Ham to be able to judge their performances.


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## Rlburnside (Sep 19, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Trying not to be biased but the football we played whilst being beaten today and having a vastly healthier goal difference at the same time I'd rather that than the other two who both seem lost on and off pitch

I mean both have much better players than us but are having some real problems
		
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I agree if we showed the same commitment your team did today that would have been acceptable all I want from my team is to show some pride. 

Never expected us to beat Chelsea today as there squad is much better but sometimes its not all about the best team winning, giving your all and not giving up can sometimes bring results.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 19, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			I agree if we showed the same commitment your team did today that would have been acceptable all I want from my team is to show some pride.

Never expected us to beat Chelsea today as there squad is much better but sometimes its not all about the best team winning, giving your all and not giving up can sometimes bring results.
		
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Exactly. Never expected a win today. Would have taken a draw from the start. However we played well , scored the first .. played some good football. Zouma looked class .. just undone by a brilliant goal from lingard and a finish from one of the best in the world..

anyways onwards and upwards. Got them in the cup so see what happens.. Leeds next in league.. chance for another good end to end game


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

The European Spots 5th to 7th are going to be hotly contested 

Everton - have started the season well but seem to be missing any X factor when DCL is out 

Leicester - missing Fofana seems to have hurt them a little bit and they haven’t started well 

West Ham - carried on from last season , look bright in midfield but who scores if Antonio is out 

Spurs - going to rely on Kane and Son , thought they looked pretty poor today and looked very flat , Kane looked way off the pace 

Arsenal - manager very naive , some young talent but poor defensively 

Villa - look a very tidy outfit , spent well to replace Grealish and Watkins will score goals 

Very early days but if I had to pick three now I would go 

Leicester , Villa and Arsenal in 7th


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The European Spots 5th to 7th are going to be hotly contested 

Everton - have started the season well but seem to be missing any X factor when DCL is out 

Leicester - missing Fofana seems to have hurt them a little bit and they haven’t started well 

West Ham - carried on from last season , look bright in midfield but who scores if Antonio is out 

Spurs - going to rely on Kane and Son , thought they looked pretty poor today and looked very flat , Kane looked way off the pace 

Arsenal - manager very naive , some young talent but poor defensively 

Villa - look a very tidy outfit , spent well to replace Grealish and Watkins will score goals 

Very early days but if I had to pick three now I would go 

Leicester , Villa and Arsenal in 7th
		
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Arsenal in 7th??? Ill have a large one of whatever youre drinking please Phil  Double it and youll be closer


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Arsenal in 7th??? Ill have a large one of whatever youre drinking please Phil  Double it and youll be closer
		
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I think because teams like Spurs , West Ham and Leicester have European football that’s going to have an affect . Arsenal have got goals in them with players like Saka , Martinelli , Aubameyang, Lacazette and creative guys like Smith-Rowe and Odegaard to provide the platform. The back line is the issue and the manager is the stopper.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Your first eleven is behind both Chelsea and City. Blinkers off.
		
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No it's not. 

Take yer liverpool hatred glasses off, I know it's hard. 

Our best 11 is as good as anyone's in the PL.


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think because teams like Spurs , West Ham and Leicester have European football that’s going to have an affect . Arsenal have got goals in them with players like Saka , Martinelli , Aubameyang, Lacazette and creative guys like Smith-Rowe and Odegaard to provide the platform. The back line is the issue and the manager is the stopper.
		
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clubs rotten from the top down at the moment, far more issues than there are answers sadly


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## BiMGuy (Sep 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			No it's not.

Take yer liverpool hatred glasses off, I know it's hard.

Our best 11 is as good as anyone's in the PL.
		
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Nah. 

He's right Chelsea and Citeh have a better first 11, if that is even a thing these days. And a much deeper pool of talent in their squads.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Nah.

He's right Chelsea and Citeh have a better first 11, if that is even a thing these days. And a much deeper pool of talent in their squads.
		
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There aren’t many players from either team that I would take from either team - certainly none of the back 5 , KDB from the  midfield and struggling to think of one that can replace someone in the front 3 as well


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 19, 2021)

Sad to hear of the death of Jimmy Greaves.

He seemed to be the first striker I remember being associated with passing the ball into the net for a lot of his finishing, rather than always putting his laces through it. Brilliant pundit with the saint as well, must watch TV in the eighties before going to the match.


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There aren’t many players from either team that I would take from either team - certainly none of the back 5 , KDB from the  midfield and struggling to think of one that can replace someone in the front 3 as well
		
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seriously you wouldnt want Lukaku?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			seriously you wouldnt want Lukaku?
		
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As a false 9/deep lying forward etc - I think he is a superb striker but as a fit Bobby( Jota at the moment )  works better for Mo and Mane. Lukaku is brilliant in a team suited to the way he plays and Chelsea are set up for him. But he would be the player you would take from the other two if you were looking to have that type or striker


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			No it's not.

Take yer liverpool hatred glasses off, I know it's hard.

Our best 11 is as good as anyone's in the PL.
		
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It’s not. You have one good centre back. Fabinho isn’t the world beater you think he is. Henderson doesn’t get near any other top team’s midfield. Firminho is the joke that Liverpool don’t get. You have two forwards who won’t pass to each other unless they really have to. Your first XI is maybe on a par with ours but not Chelsea or City.

Also stop playing the “he’s Man Utd so can’t be objective” card. It’s lazy and you aren’t Funtime Phil.


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As a false 9/deep lying forward etc - I think he is a superb striker but as a fit Bobby( Jota at the moment )  works better for Mo and Mane. Lukaku is brilliant in a team suited to the way he plays and Chelsea are set up for him. But he would be the player you would take from the other two if you were looking to have that type or striker
		
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You’d take Lukaku in an instant. Stop lying.


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## fundy (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As a false 9/deep lying forward etc - I think he is a superb striker but as a fit Bobby( Jota at the moment )  works better for Mo and Mane. Lukaku is brilliant in a team suited to the way he plays and Chelsea are set up for him. But he would be the player you would take from the other two if you were looking to have that type or striker
		
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lol yeah Firminhos a better fit, you keep telling yourself that haha


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## Stuart_C (Sep 19, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			It’s not. You have one good centre back. Fabinho isn’t the world beater you think he is. Henderson doesn’t get near any other top team’s midfield. Firminho is the joke that Liverpool don’t get*. You have two forwards who won’t pass to each other unless they really have to*. Your first XI is maybe on a par with ours but not Chelsea or City.

Also stop playing the “he’s Man Utd so can’t be objective” card. It’s lazy and you aren’t Funtime Phil.
		
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😂😂😂😂

You can’t accuse me of being lazy after reading that absolute drivel. I’ll give you Henderson.

Fabinho is absolutely world class.

“Funtime Phil“ 🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Sep 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As a false 9/deep lying forward etc - I think he is a superb striker but as a fit Bobby( Jota at the moment )  works better for Mo and Mane. Lukaku is brilliant in a team suited to the way he plays and Chelsea are set up for him. But he would be the player you would take from the other two if you were looking to have that type or striker
		
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Firminho is awful, nice teeth though.

Liverpool's midfield is forgettable. 

Vin Dijk and Salah walk into any other team. Alexander Arnold and Robertson may get into some of the other top teams, Mane as an option off the bench. I doubt any other Liverpool player gets close to walking into the top teams, certainly not the 1st 11. 

Top manager though.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 19, 2021)

That Ronaldo 1st pen shout was as clear a pen as you could see.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 19, 2021)

Just watched the West Ham v Man Utd highlights on MoTD. I would say that two of the three challenges on Ronaldo should have been penalties, the first and the third, the second one with the pull on the arm I didn't think there was enough in it to be a penalty.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 19, 2021)

VAR has had a shocking weekend. On top of the decisions yesterday and in the West Ham v Man Utd game there are at least two decisions in the Brighton v Leicester game that were wrong. The Brighton penalty that was given when the Brighton player was holding onto the defender that handballed it and then the 2nd disallowed goal where the Leicester player wasn't obstructing the goalkeeper's view of the ball.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s amazing how when that first 11 was fit they won the CL and then destroyed the league winning it quicker than any team in history I believe - 97 points one season and then 99 the next 😂😂😂

1 good CB 😂 and Firmino a joke 😂😂

Just a pile of absolute drivel
		
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You do realise that you aren’t current champions? You can’t use what happened two years ago to say how good your squad is now. Things change over time. And even then, being champions doesn’t mean you have the best starting XI; football isn’t that simple.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 20, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You do realise that you aren’t current champions? You can’t use what happened two years ago to say how good your squad is now. Things change over time. And even then, being champions doesn’t mean you have the best starting XI; football isn’t that simple.
		
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Plus they have lost one of their most consistent players in Wijnaldum who was there for the wins 

Very class player


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			seriously you wouldnt want Lukaku?
		
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Every manager in the league would, in a heartbeat.


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## Billysboots (Sep 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Every manager in the league would, in a heartbeat.
		
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I’m not sure about the price tag, though.

He still has to prove he can do it consistently against the top sides, which has always been the issue when he has played in the Premier League.

I would happily have him back at United, and he is doubtless a better player than when he went to Inter, but let’s see how he fares against better defences and top sides.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The European Spots 5th to 7th are going to be hotly contested

Everton - have started the season well but seem to be missing any X factor when DCL is out

Leicester - missing Fofana seems to have hurt them a little bit and they haven’t started well

West Ham - carried on from last season , look bright in midfield but who scores if Antonio is out

Spurs - going to rely on Kane and Son , thought they looked pretty poor today and looked very flat , Kane looked way off the pace

Arsenal - manager very naive , some young talent but poor defensively

Villa - look a very tidy outfit , spent well to replace Grealish and Watkins will score goals

Very early days but if I had to pick three now I would go

Leicester , Villa and Arsenal in 7th
		
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All are similarly inconsistent. All good teams but flawed in some ways.

I expected more from Leicester, very flat start so far, and Villa are now finding their feet. I'm going to throw Brighton into the mix as a surprise team for this 'second division '. Defensively solid, good midfield, they finally seem to have discovered goals.

I'll go West Ham, Villa, Brighton. (It's a year too early for Everton as the depth isn't there when injuries and tiredness kicks in for the key 13-14 players)


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## Billysboots (Sep 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			All are similarly inconsistent. All good teams but flawed in some ways.

I expected more from Leicester, very flat start so far, and Villa are now finding their feet. I'm going to throw Brighton into the mix as a surprise team for this 'second division '. Defensively solid, good midfield, they finally seem to have discovered goals.

I'll go West Ham, Villa, Brighton. (It's a year too early for Everton as the depth isn't there when injuries and tiredness kicks in for the key 13-14 players)
		
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Brighton have a great manager in Potter, and I enjoy watching them. And Moyes has again found his level at a club like West Ham - United was just too big a job for him, but he’s doing a great job with the Hammers.

Going to be a great season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m not sure about the price tag, though.

He still has to prove he can do it consistently against the top sides, which has always been the issue when he has played in the Premier League.

I would happily have him back at United, and he is doubtless a better player than when he went to Inter, but let’s see how he fares against better defences and top sides.
		
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I think we have to ignore price tags now, football is daft on that front. 

Don't forget,  in the past he has been playing in poorer teams where he has largely carried the line on his own. No wonder he struggled against top teams. Now he is in an all round quality team so if opposition sides want to crowd him out that leaves space for other top players. He is very much stronger and better than before and Chelsea understand how to use him, to be fair it is obvious to everyone bar Man Utd 🤣.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Brighton have a great manager in Potter, and I enjoy watching them. And Moyes has again found his level at a club like West Ham - United was just too big a job for him, but he’s doing a great job with the Hammers.

Going to be a great season.
		
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I think for many fans that section is more interesting than the usual top 4. More unpredictable, more relatable, more teams have a chance of being in it etc. The top 4 is a rich mans league with the usual suspects over and over 😴. Great if you are in it, not so much if you aren't.


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## Billysboots (Sep 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think we have to ignore price tags now, football is daft on that front. 

Don't forget,  in the past he has been playing in poorer teams where he has largely carried the line on his own. No wonder he struggled against top teams. Now he is in an all round quality team so if opposition sides want to crowd him out that leaves space for other top players. He is very much stronger and better than before and Chelsea understand how to use him, to be fair it is obvious to everyone bar Man Utd 🤣.
		
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Don’t get me wrong - I like Lukaku and was sorry to see him leave United. He was still a bit of a rough diamond with an iffy first touch, but always had goals in him.

I have a horrible feeling he will come back to haunt us 🙄


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## Stuart_C (Sep 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Every manager in the league would, in a heartbeat.
		
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Have you forgotten many of his hide and seek performances for Everton and Yernited? 

He certainly looks like he's improved after his stint in Italy but let's see where he is come the end of this season.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 20, 2021)

Just heard Moyes' interview on sky, how can he sit there and try to justify bringing Noble on yesterday for that pen?🤦🤦


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## Swango1980 (Sep 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Just heard Moyes' interview on sky, how can he sit there and try to justify bringing Noble on yesterday for that pen?🤦🤦
		
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He said Noble is one of the best penalty takers in Europe


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## Stuart_C (Sep 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			He said Noble is one of the best penalty takers in Europe
		
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He's got form for talking rubbish 🤭🤭

In fairness to Noble he's got a very good pen conversion record, I just can't believe he actually went on and took it.

It was a poor pen aswell.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Every manager in the league would, in a heartbeat.
		
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City were looking for a striker and were willing to pay £150mil for Kane and didn’t look at Lukaku , even for Chelsea he was second choice 

He is a very good player and has improved since he played in Italy but got to see how he does over a whole season here - if Klopp had £100mil to spend and needed a forward I don’t think he would have looked at Lukaku 

But at Chelsea and the way they play - think it suits him well


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## Junior (Sep 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Don’t get me wrong - I like Lukaku and was sorry to see him leave United. He was still a bit of a rough diamond with an iffy first touch, but always had goals in him.

I have a horrible feeling he will come back to haunt us 🙄
		
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He understandably got disillusioned at Man U with being used as a target man during Jose's Park the bus years..  JM used him poorly and he still scored.  He'll be twice the player he was for us at Chelsea.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Have you forgotten many of his hide and seek performances for Everton and Yernited?

He certainly looks like he's improved after his stint in Italy but let's see where he is come the end of this season.
		
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United messed him up. Didn't play to his strengths, undermined his confidence. He scored plenty of goals at Everton, no complaints from us. He disappeared in big matches? What support did he have in those games, how far away where the midfielders to him? He was getting balls lumped to him and told to fend for himself on the whole. No wonder he didn't have much impact in those games. Him versus the defence for most of the games. He will score plenty for Chelsea and could well win them the league, either through his own goals or the space he creates for others by taking 2 or more defenders with him. He is a great fit for them.


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## Junior (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			City were looking for a striker and were willing to pay £150mil for Kane and didn’t look at Lukaku , even for Chelsea he was second choice

He is a very good player and has improved since he played in Italy but got to see how he does over a whole season here - if Klopp had £100mil to spend and needed a forward I don’t think he would have looked at Lukaku

But at Chelsea and the way they play - think it suits him well
		
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City missed a trick not going for him.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2021)

The price of a player is irrelevant IMO,it’s not like it’s us who are paying for them 🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Sep 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He's got form for talking rubbish 🤭🤭

In fairness to Noble he's got a very good pen conversion record, I just can't believe he actually went on and took it.

It was a poor pen aswell.
		
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Don't agree with the decision, don't rate noble as a player but he does have a fantastic pen record 

Even in a pen shoot out for England under 21s in the final of the euros he scored 2 (they still lost)

However poor decision


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## pokerjoke (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			City were looking for a striker and were willing to pay £150mil for Kane and didn’t look at Lukaku , even for Chelsea he was second choice 

He is a very good player and has improved since he played in Italy but got to see how he does over a whole season here - if Klopp had £100mil to spend and needed a forward I don’t think he would have looked at Lukaku 

But at Chelsea and the way they play - think it suits him well
		
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Did City offer £150 million for Kane
Can’t remember hearing that anywhere.
I heard they offered 125 but Levy wanted 150


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Firminho is awful, nice teeth though.

Liverpool's midfield is forgettable.

Vin Dijk and Salah walk into any other team. Alexander Arnold and Robertson may get into some of the other top teams, Mane as an option off the bench. I doubt any other Liverpool player gets close to walking into the top teams, certainly not the 1st 11.

Top manager though.
		
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Firmino awful ?!? He has been key to our success over the past 5 years -  if people don’t see how good he is then Imo it’s down to a lack of understanding of the way he plays for us 

The GK is one of the best if not the best in the world 

The fullbacks are both amongst the best in the world 

Matip is criminally underrated but there isn’t many I would swap him for , Gomez is superb as well 

Fabinho is imo the best DM in the world taking over from Kante - missing him last season was as big as missing VVD at times 

Thiago is quality - Henderson is Henderson , oppo fans will never see what he brings to the team

And the front three are just lethal - Salah imo right now is the best in the Prem , Mane finding his form again and have Jota there to support 

So yeah I think our first 11 is right up there - certainly better than Utd’s and Chelsea’s , City it’s close


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Junior said:



			City missed a trick not going for him.
		
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Potentially you could be right - I just don’t see it’s the type of player that Pep would want , unless Lukaku has adapted his game from being just a pure striker , there were flashes of it at the Euros but I don’t see him having that same involvement in the build up like Kane does - but Lukaku I have no doubt is going to look to prove a lot of people wrong


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## Swango1980 (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Firmino awful ?!? He has been key to our success over the past 5 years -  if people don’t see how good he is then Imo it’s down to a lack of understanding of the way he plays for us

The GK is one of the best if not the best in the world

The fullbacks are both amongst the best in the world

Matip is criminally underrated but there isn’t many I would swap him for , Gomez is superb as well

Fabinho is imo the best DM in the world taking over from Kante - missing him last season was as big as missing VVD at times

Thiago is quality - Henderson is Henderson , oppo fans will never see what he brings to the team

And the front three are just lethal - Salah imo right now is the best in the Prem , Mane finding his form again and have Jota there to support

So yeah I think our first 11 is right up there - certainly better than Utd’s and Chelsea’s , City it’s close
		
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Your goalkeeper is decent, but I suspect Liverpool fans consider him to be the best in the world because you compare him to the trash Liverpool have had before him. Robertson is very good, but nowhere near as good as Shaw. TAA is a fantastic crosser, but never rated him as a defender. However, he fits in well to what Liverpool do, so no problem with that. United would take him, not so sure about City or Chelsea.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Your goalkeeper is decent, but I suspect Liverpool fans consider him to be the best in the world because you compare him to the trash Liverpool have had before him. Robertson is very good, *but nowhere near as good as Shaw.[* TAA is a fantastic crosser, but never rated him as a defender. However, he fits in well to what Liverpool do, so no problem with that. United would take him, not so sure about City or Chelsea.
		
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😂😂😂😂😂 

Anyway 

The new CL 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438480536566108160
*There is a reason that European football is one of the world’s most successful and popular sports. It never stands still. Since the inaugural competition, known as the European Champion Clubs’ Cup, kicked off in 1955, UEFA has continuously evolved and adapted the Champions League to keep pace with wider changes in the game

To ensure the new 2024/25 format will deliver the best for clubs, players and fans, UEFA based its design on extensive consultations with key stakeholders in the European football community. The reforms received unanimous backing on 19 April from both the European Club Association (ECA) Board and the UEFA Club Competitions Committee (composed of a majority of club representatives).

"This evolved format will still keep alive the dream of any team in Europe to participate in the UEFA Champions League thanks to results obtained on the pitch and it will enable long-term viability, prosperity, and growth for everyone in European football, not just a tiny, self-selected cartel," said UEFA President Aleksander Čeferin.

How will the 2024/25 competition change?
The pivotal change in the reforms announced by the UEFA Executive Committee after its meeting on 19 April 2021 is the departure from the current format’s opening 32-team group stage. The present Champions League season begins with participants divided into eight groups of four. From the 2024/25 season, there will be a single league made up of all 36 competing clubs. This will give four more sides the opportunity to compete against the best clubs in Europe.

Under the new format, teams will play four matches more than is currently the case. They will no longer play three opponents twice – home and away – but will instead face fixtures against 10 different teams, half of them at home and half of them away. This gives the opportunity for clubs to test themselves against a wider range of opponents – and also raises the prospect of fans seeing the top teams go head to head more often earlier in the competition. The new format should mean that there is more to play for right up until the final night of league action.

How will the four additional spots be allocated?
Qualification for the Champions League will continue to be open and depend on a club’s final position in the previous season’s domestic league competition. The additional four slots available in 2024/25 will be allocated according to three different criteria:

Slot one: One of the additional places will go to the club ranked third in the championship of the association in fifth position in the UEFA national association ranking.
Slot two: Another will be awarded to a domestic champion by extending from four to five the number of clubs qualifying via the so-called 'Champions Path'.
Slots three and four: Awarded to the two clubs with the highest club coefficients that have not qualified automatically for the Champions League’s league stage, but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase or the Europa League/the Europa Conference League (due to start in the 2021/22 season).
How will the last 16 take shape?
The results of each match will decide the overall ranking in the new league, with three points for a win and one for a draw still applying.

While the top eight teams will advance automatically to the round of 16, those sides placed between ninth and 24th will enter a play-off round. Those who finished between ninth and 16th will be seeded in the play-off draw, meaning they will face a team placed 17th to 24th – with home advantage in the second-leg match. Teams who finish 25th or lower will be eliminated, with no access to the UEFA Europa League.

The eight clubs who prevail in the play-offs will then progress to the round of 16 where they will each face one of the top-eight finishers.

Do the changes impact the knockout stages?
From the round of 16 onward, the competition will continue to follow its existing format of knockout rounds leading to the final staged at a neutral venue selected by UEFA.

What does the new Champions League format mean for fans?
More opportunities to see Europe’s top teams playing each other earlier in the competition.
Every game counts. The new league format will ensure that any result has the potential to dramatically change a team’s position, right up the very last matchday. Winning or losing could make the difference between a side automatically qualifying for the last 16, entering the play-offs or being eliminated from the competition.

Will UEFA's other club competitions adopt the same format?
Yes. In addition to the Champions League, both the Europa League and the all new Europa Conference League – due to kick off in the 2021/22 season – will also evolve to replace their group stage with a single league. The new format can be adapted as needed to each competition, both in terms of the number of teams and the number of matches.

What are the next steps in preparing the ground for the new format's introduction in 2024?
Further decisions regarding matters such as the rebalancing of the access list, match dates, seeding system, format for the finals, coefficients and financial distribution will be made by the end of 2021. Potential adjustments to the format approved on 19 April could still be made if necessary.

How will the new format benefit the wider European game?
The changes made are designed to secure the positive future of European football at every level and meet the evolving needs of all its stakeholders. Unequivocally confirming joint commitment to the principle of open competition and sporting merit across the continent, the common purpose has also been to sustain domestic leagues.

UEFA has also reaffirmed its strong financial commitment to the whole of European football and will initiate steps to ensure that greater financial solidarity will be delivered to a wider spectrum of clubs who do not participate in UEFA club competitions. This will reinforce the solid foundation on which the game in Europe is built.

Continuous evolution
Our Champions League and Europa League timelines show in more detail how each competition has evolved, from the origins of the European Champion Clubs’ Cup, which kicked off in 1955, the UEFA Cup and the Cup Winners’ Cup into their existing formats.*

Not many steps until a Super League then 

“legacy spots”


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2021)

Yay, more group games. Zzz.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2021)

So going on how crap our team are 1-11, obviously everyone would agree then that Jurgen should be manager of the season without doubt, if he has to get by with such dross.

Robertson, nowhere near as good as Shaw - thats a killer that one. One good season after about 5 years, whereas one has been consistent over 5 years and has a few silver pots to show for it as well.

Asking for a Phil.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So going on how crap our team are 1-11, obviously everyone would agree then that Jurgen should be manager of the season without doubt, if he has to get by with such dross.

Robertson, nowhere near as good as Shaw - thats a killer that one. One good season after about 5 years, whereas one has been consistent over 5 years and has a few silver pots to show for it as well.

Asking for a Phil. 

Click to expand...

No one is saying your starting XI is dross but surely you agree it’s not the best in the league?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 20, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Yay, more group games. Zzz.
		
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Most of the early games are like watching the Caraboa Cup. Even when teams like Young Boys get a great win, it is still odds on United go through, and Yound Boys don't. Losing the match, as a United fan, is simply mildly disappointing rather than crushing disappointment. There is no real buzz when most European matches come along, and even in the latter stages it is probably not as exciting as it could be.

It would be great to go back to a time where only the Champions of each European Country got through. The lower quality nations then play each other in various preliminary games, until the clubs from the bigger nations enter in the latter stages. Yes, it would mean United would not have been in it for a long time. But, it would become a prestigious event again.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So going on how crap our team are 1-11, obviously everyone would agree then that Jurgen should be manager of the season without doubt, if he has to get by with such dross.

Robertson, nowhere near as good as Shaw - thats a killer that one. One good season after about 5 years, whereas one has been consistent over 5 years and has a few silver pots to show for it as well.

Asking for a Phil. 

Click to expand...

Funny, I remember many saying that United's team, when they last won the league, were poor. They had a point, but they had a great manager and had some magic in the team. That is what Liverpool have. Not really saying any of their 11 is awful. Well, I personally think Firminho is awful, but maybe a better term would be extremely over-rated.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2021)




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## pokerjoke (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So going on how crap our team are 1-11, obviously everyone would agree then that Jurgen should be manager of the season without doubt, if he has to get by with such dross.

Robertson, nowhere near as good as Shaw - thats a killer that one. One good season after about 5 years, whereas one has been consistent over 5 years and has a few silver pots to show for it as well.

Asking for a Phil. 

Click to expand...

I don’t think anyone mentioned your squad is dross but some obviously get offended when others suggest it’s the best in the league.
Obviously it’s up there though and I believe there are others players that other squads would want.
I would have Kante for sure.
Totally agree with you regarding Shaw and Robertson and Robertson’s 5 seasons.
Shaw is definitely back to his best now and Robertson’s performances have dropped off slightly but I would take both all day long.

Anyway least we have a competitive season this time.


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## Canary_Yellow (Sep 20, 2021)

Who has the best starting line-up on paper is the most tedious discussion imaginable and would only be relevant if the league table was going to be decided by a bunch of kids playing 38 rounds of top trumps.

The only thing that matters is which side has the most effective team and that can only be judged based on results on the pitch.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So going on how crap our team are 1-11, obviously everyone would agree then that Jurgen should be manager of the season without doubt, if he has to get by with such dross.

Robertson, nowhere near as good as Shaw - thats a killer that one. One good season after about 5 years, whereas one has been consistent over 5 years and has a few silver pots to show for it as well.

Asking for a Phil. 

Click to expand...

I think the 1-11 became crap because they didn’t win the league last year and memories only look back on the last season


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## Stuart_C (Sep 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Your goalkeeper is decent, but I suspect Liverpool fans consider him to be the best in the world because you compare him to the trash Liverpool have had before him. *Robertson is very good, but nowhere near as good as Shaw*. TAA is a fantastic crosser, but never rated him as a defender. However, he fits in well to what Liverpool do, so no problem with that. United would take him, not so sure about City or Chelsea.
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 oh swango 🤦🤦

I'll have a schooner of whatever you're drinking, I don't think I could handle a full pint 🤭


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## Swango1980 (Sep 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 oh swango 🤦🤦
		
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Well, in my opinion, if someone said United could swap Shaw with Roberston, as a United fan I would say absolutely no chance.

If we could swap Wan Bissaka with TAA, I'd definitely consider it.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 20, 2021)

Brilliant result this weekend for Villa. The atmosphere at Villa park at the moment is absolutely class and I love being part of it! 

Hopefully the first step back on track, United to play on saturday - not an easy game but they have to slip up somewhere!


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## Stuart_C (Sep 20, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Who has the best starting line-up on paper is the most tedious discussion imaginable and would only be relevant if the league table was going to be decided by a bunch of kids playing 38 rounds of top trumps.

The only thing that matters is which side has the most effective team and that can only be judged based on results on the pitch.
		
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Aye, the league table never lies 😉


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## Stuart_C (Sep 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, in my opinion, if someone said United could swap Shaw with Roberston, as a United fan I would say absolutely no chance.

*If we could swap Wan Bissaka with TAA, I'd definitely consider it*.
		
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Why? He can't defend....Well he can.....just er not very well😉


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## IanM (Sep 20, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Yay, more group games. Zzz.
		
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The summary is appreciated I saw what it was, and immediately fell asleep!

Next week, FIFA proposal on staging a World Cup every two weeks!


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## Bdill93 (Sep 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Aye, the league table never lies 😉
		
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No it doesnt! Chelsea are top and will remain so after 38 games played I think!

Would only take other Manchester sides of Liverpool dropping out of the CL to change my opinion on that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Brilliant result this weekend for Villa. The atmosphere at Villa park at the moment is absolutely class and I love being part of it!

Hopefully the first step back on track, United to play on saturday - not an easy game but they have to slip up somewhere!
		
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Impressed with Villa - they seem to have improved a bit more since last season and Buendia hasn’t go going yet , can see them being the team that maybe challenges Man Utd for 4th spot



Bdill93 said:



			No it doesnt! *Chelsea are top *and will remain so after 38 games played I think!

Would only take other Manchester sides of Liverpool dropping out of the CL to change my opinion on that.
		
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Only by alphabetical order 😉😁

maybe it’s me but I don’t think Chelsea are as strong as suggested - got some very good players but need to play 5 at the back to be strong at the back and if Lukaku doesn’t score then where do the goals come from


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## Bdill93 (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Impressed with Villa - they seem to have improved a bit more since last season and Buendia hasn’t go going yet , can see them being the team that maybe challenges Man Utd for 4th spot



Only by alphabetical order 😉😁

maybe it’s me but I don’t think Chelsea are as strong as suggested - got some very good players but need to play 5 at the back to be strong at the back and if Lukaku doesn’t score then where do the goals come from
		
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I watched chelsea live last week. They have something special in them - current champions of Europe after all! Theyre a very good team, well balanced and insane depth. I cant look past them - they're really impressive and Lukaku was built for the premier league.

One thing is for sure, it really could be any of 3 teams - its going to be special! 


For us - we need to progress but ill take that however it comes. We finished 11th last year after a great start, lost jack for 12 games and just couldnt win games. Now we are far better as a squad, have players on our bench and some real stars too (What a signing Ings was) - if we finished 10th this year I'd be happy but the dream is to start competing at a similar level with the Leicester and West Hams of the league for now! 7-9th would be amazing!


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## Swango1980 (Sep 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Why? He can't defend....Well he can.....just er not very well😉
		
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Simple, because Wan Bissaka struggles to attack. TAA firing crosses into Ronaldo is definitely something worth consideration. If TAA was a top defender, it would be a no brainer.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 20, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			No it doesnt! *Chelsea are top *and will remain so after 38 games played I think!

Would only take other Manchester sides of Liverpool dropping out of the CL to change my opinion on that.
		
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You obviously don't know the forum rules when it comes to this thread. 

The league table doesn't matter til 10 games have been played😉

I think there's 4 teams all with genuine chances of winning the title. City can't be taken lightly and I'm sure they'll start to click. 

Chelsea have got lots of fire power to win high scoring games even if they lose a couple defensively. 

Yernited are hamstrung by OGS. Got a squad capable of winning games just not sure their defensively solid enough.

Liverpool haven't got the squad depth of the others but with a bit of luck on the injury front I can see us going all the way.

January will be a tough month for us when we lose the African Players but I'm certain if we Keep Origi fit then we win the league.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			You obviously don't know the forum rules when it comes to this thread.

The league table doesn't matter til 10 games have been played😉

I think there's 4 teams all with genuine chances of winning the title. City can't be taken lightly and I'm sure they'll start to click.

Chelsea have got lots of fire power to win high scoring games even if they lose a couple defensively.

Yernited are hamstrung by OGS. Got a squad capable of winning games just not sure their defensively solid enough.

Liverpool haven't got the squad depth of the others but with a bit of luck on the injury front I can see us going all the way.

January will be a tough month for us when we lose the African Players but I'm certain *if we Keep Origi fit then we win the league*.
		
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This is a joke right?  Origi... We have better strikers than you do... 

I dont see Liverpool winning the league - simply through squad depth. More likely the Champions league than the league.

I dont think United have a chance - Ronaldo wont carry them that far.

City are boring, their manager keeps moaning in the media and they have no real goalscorer. Not winning anything this year other than the league cup I reckon! Id gladly see them fail on every front. Something isnt quite right at city though....


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			This is a joke right?  Origi... We have better strikers than you do... 

I dont see Liverpool winning the league - simply through squad depth. More likely the Champions league than the league.

I dont think United have a chance - Ronaldo wont carry them that far.

City are boring, their manager keeps moaning in the media and they have no real goalscorer. Not winning anything this year other than the league cup I reckon! Id gladly see them fail on every front. Something isnt quite right at city though....
		
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Are squad depth so far isn’t too bad 

We have already lost a few to injury and been without a number of players and doing ok - we are prob maybe light one more for the front three but still got some good players for back up 

And as for Origi - legend 😂

Had a shocker last season and didn’t look interested at all 

So far he has only played one game and did well - 😂


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## Bdill93 (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are squad depth so far isn’t too bad

We have already lost a few to injury and been without a number of players and doing ok - we are prob maybe light one more for the front three but still got some good players for back up

And as for Origi - legend 😂

Had a shocker last season and didn’t look interested at all

So far he has only played one game and did well - 😂
		
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I know he scored the all important goal for you but come on... 

Salah, Mane, VVD or Alison are your biggest assests. Lose one and you might struggle. I think you have depth everywhere else though.


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## IanM (Sep 20, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			No it doesnt! Chelsea are top and will remain so after 38 games played I think!

Would only take other Manchester sides of Liverpool dropping out of the CL to change my opinion on that.
		
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I've no dog in this fight, but looking out the widow, there are still green leaves on the trees!    Long long way to go yet.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Funny, I remember many saying that United's team, when they last won the league, were poor. They had a point, but they had a great manager and had some magic in the team. That is what Liverpool have. Not really saying any of their 11 is awful. Well, I personally think Firminho is awful, but maybe a better term would be extremely over-rated.
		
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I think the last title Man U won was one of your poorest sides over the 20 years you won it, I think most man U fans would admit that, but it was a team that won the league, so hey, ho. They were no doubt an aging side as well. Fergie did get the best out of them, but left Moyes with a decent amount of work to do with that squad. Dalglish did the same for us when he left the first time, but I would never blame him, due to his health problems.

I dont always get in the "who would get into this team from another" argument often, as it's a team game. Our midfielders arent amazing on the eye, but for those that appreciate a good defensive midfielder like Fabinho, Kante, Keane etc we do alright, just none of them are spectacular. Same with Firmino, he doesnt score enough, but he makes us tick offensively.

Shaw is much improved and is now a very good player, but to say he's well better than Robertson is frankly, insane. or inane - you pick.

So, Jurgen manager of the year, as voted by the GM forum consensus, and we're only in September - I'll take that.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I

maybe it’s me but I don’t think Chelsea are as strong as suggested - got some very good players but need to play 5 at the back to be strong at the back and *if Lukaku doesn’t score then where do the goals come from*

Click to expand...

I'm sorry but that is too much of an open goal. They beat Spurs 3-0 yesterday, 3 separate goal scorers, away from home and he didn't score. Clearly if Werner could finally hit a barn door from 3 paces then it would help them massively but I think that team can chip in from all over


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## Beezerk (Sep 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm sorry but that is too much of an open goal. They beat Spurs 3-0 yesterday, 3 separate goal scorers, away from home and he didn't score. Clearly if Werner could finally hit a barn door from 3 paces then it would help them massively but I think that team can chip in from all over
		
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Good point but I can't see other teams handing Chelsea 3 goals like Spurs did yesterday 🤭
Roy Keane after the match was tremendous 🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm sorry but that is too much of an open goal. They beat Spurs 3-0 yesterday, 3 separate goal scorers, away from home and he didn't score. Clearly if Werner could finally hit a barn door from 3 paces then it would help them massively but I think that team can chip in from all over
		
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Last season they scored a total of 58 goals , the lowest of the top 10 i believe , their top scorer last season in the Prem was 7 goals and that was Jorginho and mainly penalties with them losing as well three of the players that got the goals 

So yes take out Lukaku and they imo will struggle and one game against Spurs won’t change that opinion


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## BiMGuy (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpool fans are extra touchy this morning. Did we not get a good night's sleep 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Last season they scored a total of 58 goals , the lowest of the top 10 i believe , their top scorer last season in the Prem was 7 goals and that was Jorginho and mainly penalties with them losing as well three of the players that got the goals

So yes take out Lukaku and they imo will struggle and one game against Spurs won’t change that opinion
		
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I think they are a more rounded team this year though. Lukaku will score, he will create and also create gaps for others. If he gets injured then clearly it will affect them, not as badly as last year I suspect as Tuchel seems to be getting a pretty good tune out of them, but then so would Liverpool losing Salah. I think if Werner could discover his finishing then the rest of the league will be in major trouble as Chelsea then have a high quality back up but even without a spare CF they will be right up there. Anyone ahead of Chelsea wins the league this year, imo.

Incidentally, they don't need to win games like City do to win the league. The Chelsea defence is strong and 1-0, 2-0 will do them nicely. They don't need to win games 4-0, 5-1 etc.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Liverpool fans are extra touchy this morning. Did we not get a good night's sleep 😂
		
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No, we just have good arguments.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No, we just have good arguments. 

Click to expand...

Cool. Can't wait for you to start using them. Maybe let us know, so we don't miss them. 😉


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## DanFST (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s amazing how when that first 11 was fit they won the CL and then destroyed the league winning it quicker than any team in history I believe - 97 points one season and then 99 the next 😂😂😂

1 good CB 😂 and Firmino a joke 😂😂

Just a pile of absolute drivel
		
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If you ignore City the year before with triple figure points, you're right.

Liverpool won't get top 2, wager for H4H from any Liverpool fans?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Cool. Can't wait for you to start using them. Maybe let us know, so we don't miss them. 😉
		
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Sound, as this used to be called the premier league thread, you must be finding your feet by now after 2 years in 2 decades.


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## IanM (Sep 20, 2021)

Aldershot and Barnet both sacked their managers today... there you go.  Keeping it real!!


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## Hobbit (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sound, as this used to be called the premier league thread, you must be finding your feet by now after 2 years in 2 decades.

Click to expand...

oooh, how arrogant! There’s a shock from a Liverpool fan….oops, shouldn’t comment as I haven’t been to a match for over year. C’mon Pete, you’re way better than pettiness, surely.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			If you ignore City the year before with triple figure points, you're right.

Liverpool won't get top 2, wager for H4H from any Liverpool fans?
		
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I’ll take the bet - £20 👍


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			oooh, how arrogant! There’s a shock from a Liverpool fan….oops, shouldn’t comment as I haven’t been to a match for over year. C’mon Pete, you’re way better than pettiness, surely.

Click to expand...

Well maybe if the big Leeds fan actually went out on a limb and educated us, or found a nuance in an argument he wouldn't get short shrift, as can only be bothered having a proper discussion with people who at least offer counter arguments than just little crap digs.

I'll wait, he still has time to recover.

All fans become arrogant when they have a few years at the top, I'm enjoying our sliver of limelight again, may be some time before Leeds do again. 

I'll give you Malaga away, if you show me a stub.


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## IanM (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’ll take the bet - £20 👍
		
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Duly noted and minuted!


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## BiMGuy (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well maybe if the big Leeds fan actually went out on a limb and educated us, or found a nuance in an argument he wouldn't get short shrift, as can only be bothered having a proper discussion with people who at least offer counter arguments than just little crap digs.

I'll wait, he still has time to recover.

All fans become arrogant when they have a few years at the top, I'm enjoying our sliver of limelight again, may be some time before Leeds do again. 

I'll give you Malaga away, if you show me a stub. 

Click to expand...

There is no nuanced argument to be had. The Liverpool fans on here are so blinkered its comical. 

I'm rather enjoying being back in the PL. It amuses me how arrogant and out of touch, fans of the so called big teams have become. Especially how much of a sense of entitlement Liverpool and ManU fans in particular have.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			There is no nuanced argument to be had. The Liverpool fans on here are so blinkered its comical.

I'm rather enjoying being back in the PL. It amuses me how arrogant and out of touch, fans of the so called big teams have become. Especially how much of a sense of entitlement Liverpool and ManU fans in particular have.
		
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Blinkered or have faith in the players ? 

The current Liverpool team have proven their ability a number of times yet some will continue to dismiss them 

Multiple players within the team have won multiple awards and produced the results on the pitch - when we say we believe we have the best 11 in the Prem it’s from a position of seeing what that 11 can do on the pitch and also how the other teams have done in the same space 

We don’t believe we are “entitled” to anything 

But it’s great to see Leeds back in the Prem - maybe not some of their fans as witnessed last weekend


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## BiMGuy (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blinkered or have faith in the players ?

The current Liverpool team have proven their ability a number of times yet some will continue to dismiss them

Multiple players within the team have won multiple awards and produced the results on the pitch - when we say we believe we have the best 11 in the Prem it’s from a position of seeing what that 11 can do on the pitch and also how the other teams have done in the same space

We don’t believe we are “entitled” to anything

But it’s great to see Leeds back in the Prem - maybe not some of their fans as witnessed last weekend
		
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Unfortunately some of our so called fans are utter scumbags. Just as, unfortunately every team has their share of utter scomebags.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Unfortunately some of our so called fans are utter scumbags. Just as, unfortunately every team has their share of utter scomebags.
		
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They most certainly do and it’s a shame that the element that stains every club hasn’t left after the pandemic 

Right now for us in some way it’s good that everyone has written us off - we prob need to ensure we keep more fit than others but if we do win the title it’s going to be a heck of celebration


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			There is no nuanced argument to be had. The Liverpool fans on here are so blinkered its comical.

I'm rather enjoying being back in the PL. It amuses me how arrogant and out of touch, fans of the so called big teams have become. Especially how much of a sense of entitlement Liverpool and ManU fans in particular have.
		
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Yep, no nuance or counter argument to be had here, as you were.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No, we just have good arguments. 

Click to expand...

Good at causing arguments 😂


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## Hobbit (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well maybe if the big Leeds fan actually went out on a limb and educated us, or found a nuance in an argument he wouldn't get short shrift, as can only be bothered having a proper discussion with people who at least offer counter arguments than just little crap digs.

I'll wait, he still has time to recover.

All fans become arrogant when they have a few years at the top, I'm enjoying our sliver of limelight again, may be some time before Leeds do again. 

I'll give you Malaga away, if you show me a stub. 

Click to expand...

Will you accept Almeria at home and many Los Gallardos stubs? My over 60’s season ticket for Almeria is €120, and as of 2 weeks ago we can finally attend a full stadium. Mind you, it’s an Arab owner!

BTW, Liverpool 3rd or 4th providing Van Dijk doesn’t get injured.


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## Junior (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blinkered or have faith in the players ?

The current Liverpool team have proven their ability a number of times yet some will *continue to dismiss them*

Multiple players within the team have won multiple awards and produced the results on the pitch - when we say we believe we have the best 11 in the Prem it’s from a position of seeing what that 11 can do on the pitch and also how the other teams have done in the same space

We don’t believe we are “entitled” to anything

But it’s great to see Leeds back in the Prem - maybe not some of their fans as witnessed last weekend
		
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Like many dismissing the Man Utd team that won more premier league games than everyone bar City last year and lost the least (ok we tied with City on this)........Oh and Ole's side finished above Jurgens last season yet Jurgen is a God and Ole is a joke??????  Klopp hadn't achieved what Ole has achieved in the same amount of time at the respective clubs.    

Beyond my Man U and Liverpool bants, the wider point is its hard for us all not to have our tinted glasses on. That's why I'd give Ole another season.

Personally, Chelsea win it, City 2nd.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Junior said:



			Like many dismissing the Man Utd team that won more premier league games than everyone bar City last year and lost the least (ok we tied with City on this)........Oh and Ole's side finished above Jurgens last season yet Jurgen is a God and Ole is a joke??????  Klopp hadn't achieved what Ole has achieved in the same amount of time at the respective clubs.  

Beyond my Man U and Liverpool bants, the wider point is its hard for us all not to have our tinted glasses on. That's why I'd give Ole another season.

Personally, Chelsea win it, City 2nd.
		
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There are a number of things that need to be added to give context to the Klopp vs OGS comparison in regards their I think it’s first 100 games - Klopp in those years 15-18 took the team from 8th to 4th to 2nd and a CL final and EL final. The team OGS took over were 2nd the season before

The team that each respective manager took over - OGS took over a team that Mourinho and Van Gaal spent millions on.

OGS has spent over £400mil in those first 100 games around £320mil net spend. Klopp around £230mil and made a profit

If Man Utd fans want to use that for them to give OGS another season then fair enough - For us we knew that Klopp was a manager who had already had success at a top team in a major league

And last season - yep it was OGS best season for UTD , and did get above us , again context will show how decimated our team was with injuries and missing such a unprecedented level of players was a key reason why we only finished 3rd last season.

I’m pretty confident that we will have success again under Klopp - he has proven it , OGS as yet hasn’t proven it and I have seen the same sort of thing with our club over the years .If he does become successful I’ll hold my hand up and say I got it very wrong about him.

And whilst not wanting utd to have any success to see a manager who has been part of the club does have a bit of a special feel when they are successful


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## Hobbit (Sep 20, 2021)

95%+ of fans couldn’t care less how much money is spent. Its who finishes 1st that counts. There’s no mileage in we finished 2nd but only coz they spent more. Who gives a flying fig?


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2021)

E


Hobbit said:



			95%+ of fans couldn’t care less how much money is spent. Its who finishes 1st that counts. There’s no mileage in we finished 2nd but only coz they spent more. Who gives a flying fig?
		
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Exactly,but then again the Net spend trophy is massive 😊


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2021)

Seems that Messi’s hasn’t had the dream start at PSG.
Didn’t look too happy about being substituted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			95%+ of fans couldn’t care less how much money is spent. Its who finishes 1st that counts. There’s no mileage in we finished 2nd but only coz they spent more. Who gives a flying fig?
		
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Money spent is always key , it’s why they brought financial rules in and also looking at bringing in more , I guess the likes of Barcelona fans etc now care about how much money Is spent because it’s crippled  their club , same with Inter. It also helps show what a manager needs to be successful or how a club works , would Pep be as successful without having unlimited funds for example or would Klopp look at different players if the club didn’t just spend the money they make. I guess that’s the way modern football has become when they now have net spend tables - at one point it was good to be at the bottom of it now it seems you need to be at the top of it and you can only be successful if you spend spend spend and then what money is it they are spending - loans, more debt , owners bank money etc


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## DanFST (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Money spent is always key , it’s why they brought financial rules in and also looking at bringing in more , I guess the likes of Barcelona fans etc now care about how much money Is spent because it’s crippled  their club , same with Inter. It also helps show what a manager needs to be successful or how a club works , would Pep be as successful without having unlimited funds for example or would Klopp look at different players if the club didn’t just spend the money they make. I guess that’s the way modern football has become when they now have net spend tables - at one point it was good to be at the bottom of it now it seems you need to be at the top of it and you can only be successful if you spend spend spend and then what money is it they are spending - loans, more debt , owners bank money etc
		
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I could understand this thinking if you weren't one of the top 6. Leicester a prime example, won the league then had to sell the key components. 

You are aware you made the biggest net loss of -126.8 million in the league the year you won the Champions league right? (18/19), over 10x the loss that city made that season.


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## Hobbit (Sep 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			E

Exactly,but then again the Net spend trophy is massive 😊
		
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I’d love to know what is so unholy about Arab money but American money is so sacred, unless it’s at Utd, not that the mighty Middlesbrough is tainted either way


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## DanFST (Sep 20, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			I’d love to know what is so unholy about Arab money but American money is so sacred, unless it’s at Utd, not that the mighty Middlesbrough is tainted either way

Click to expand...

Nothing is as sacred as our dildo brothers money.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I could understand this thinking if you weren't one of the top 6. Leicester a prime example, won the league then had to sell the key components.

You are aware you made the biggest net loss of -126.8 million in the league the year you won the Champions league right? (18/19), over 10x the loss that city made that season.
		
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Yes we did make the biggest loss that year because of the players bought in the summer - the year before we made a profit of just over £150mil I think it was - it was all down to the player sales before the year end of the accounts and the player purchases after. So it’s balanced out over the two accounting years.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			There is no nuanced argument to be had. The Liverpool fans on here are so blinkered its comical.

I'm rather enjoying being back in the PL. It amuses me how arrogant and out of touch, fans of the so called big teams have become. Especially how much of a sense of entitlement Liverpool and ManU fans in particular have.
		
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Are Leeds fans not lording it over Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Boro, Bradford fans now?

Its what football fans do.


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## Hobbit (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Money spent is always key , it’s why they brought financial rules in and also looking at bringing in more , I guess the likes of Barcelona fans etc now care about how much money Is spent because it’s crippled  their club , same with Inter. It also helps show what a manager needs to be successful or how a club works , would Pep be as successful without having unlimited funds for example or would Klopp look at different players if the club didn’t just spend the money they make. I guess that’s the way modern football has become when they now have net spend tables - at one point it was good to be at the bottom of it now it seems you need to be at the top of it and you can only be successful if you spend spend spend and then what money is it they are spending - loans, more debt , owners bank money etc
		
Click to expand...

But it shouldn’t just be about net spend. What’s the point of carrying £500m debt but having a good net spend. Being able to service the debt is great but racking it up, as ALL the top clubs have done, is a gamble. Great if it pays off in terms of success but the debt is still there when things go west aka Arsenal.

Good financial planning is now often done on a 5 year rolling plan. Planning for a £500m debt on a wish and a prayer isn’t good planning. All the top clubs are doing it, and none are squeaky clean, inc Liverpool.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			I’d love to know what is so unholy about Arab money but American money is so sacred, unless it’s at Utd, not that the mighty Middlesbrough is tainted either way

Click to expand...

If you havent got the long argument by now of massive un-regulated spend, then you never will.

Should it be the best team / manager / self-earned income that trumps all, as it did for probably 100 years of football in England (with many, many clubs winning it for decades - 60's onwards - Leicester, Burnley, Man U, Man city, Forest, Everton, us, Spurs, Arsenal, Villa, Derby etc) , or a 1-2 billion pound investment that blows everyone out of the water. The first is a sport, the second isn't.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			If you havent got the long argument by now of massive un-regulated spend, then you never will.

Should it be the best team / manager / self-earned income that trumps all, as it did for probably 100 years of football in England (with many, many clubs winning it for decades - 60's onwards - Leicester, Burnley, Man U, Man city, Forest, Everton, us, Spurs, Arsenal, Villa, Derby etc) , or a 1-2 billion pound investment that blows everyone out of the water. The first is a sport, the second isn't.
		
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And of course if Liverpool were sold to Oil billionaires and started spending billions? I suspect most fans would be ok with it.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes we did make the biggest loss that year because of the players bought in the summer - the year before we made a profit of just over £150mil I think it was - it was all down to the player sales before the year end of the accounts and the player purchases after. So it’s balanced out over the two accounting years.
		
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Why do you keep saying “I think it was” these stats are obviously Googled


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes we did make the biggest loss that year because of the players bought in the summer - the year before we made a profit of just over £150mil I think it was - it was all down to the player sales before the year end of the accounts and the player purchases after. So it’s balanced out over the two accounting years.
		
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Any chance you could give us all a run down of Liverpool’s business model Phil,it really is fascinating 🧐 😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			But it shouldn’t just be about net spend. What’s the point of carrying £500m debt but having a good net spend. Being able to service the debt is great but racking it up, as ALL the top clubs have done, is a gamble. Great if it pays off in terms of success but the debt is still there when things go west aka Arsenal.

Good financial planning is now often done on a 5 year rolling plan. Planning for a £500m debt on a wish and a prayer isn’t good planning. All the top clubs are doing it, and none are squeaky clean, inc Liverpool.
		
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Liverpool work on a self sustaining model - any debt we have currently is a loan from the owners to build up the stadium. Then money spent on players is money that the club earn from income including player sales , the owners don’t spend their own money and they don’t take out loans to buy players. They recently had to take out a credit line to help pay the bills through the pandemic and I believe that’s been paid back again. 

Spurs have nearly £900mil in debt but most is the stadium and believe they have taken out further loans , Arsenal as well , Man Utd have the facility with the bank , Chelsea spend what they make (Lukaku was funded by player sales ) and who knows where City get their money from. 

We have supporters demanding our owners sell up because the belief is we can’t compete in the transfer market and because they don’t spend their own money on players. All this thinking started when Abramovich arrived and then the City owners took to a new level - other fans want to see their club do the same , where as I am happy to see the club spend within its means.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			And of course if Liverpool were sold to Oil billionaires and started spending billions? I suspect most fans would be ok with it.
		
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Yes, a good lot no doubt would, but for most match-going people who I know, not a chance.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Any chance you could give us all a run down of Liverpool’s business model Phil,it really is fascinating 🧐 😂
		
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I think Phil has a board meeting coming up 😊


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## BiMGuy (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are Leeds fans not lording it over Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Boro, Bradford fans now?

Its what football fans do.
		
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No. Just Huddersfield and Derby at present.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I think Phil has a board meeting coming up 😊
		
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Best get his sat nav out


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			No. Just Huddersfield and Derby at present.
		
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Good to hear, appropriate and well apportioned arrogance has an immeasurable beauty, when applied correctly.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are Leeds fans not lording it over Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Boro, Bradford fans now?

*Its what football fans do*.
		
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Not all football fans. Some of us have no one to lord it over.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2021)

https://t.co/Jy9THY5su8

Didn't notice at the time but Ronaldo was going down before zouma even got to him lol


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## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



https://t.co/Jy9THY5su8

Didn't notice at the time but Ronaldo was going down before zouma even got to him lol
		
Click to expand...

To protect himself from the clumsy loaf
Move on to next week now and the next one


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## Kellfire (Sep 21, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			To protect himself from the clumsy loaf
Move on to next week now and the next one 

Click to expand...

Yep that’s still a penalty. Not sure why anyone would suggest it isn’t.


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## Jimaroid (Sep 21, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Yep that’s still a penalty. Not sure why anyone would suggest it isn’t.
		
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Trailing leg foot drag = dive.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2021)

It’s interesting when we talk about diving or trailing legs etc
When a defender is at full stretch or his full force goes into a challenge or a player goes over the top serious injuries can occur.
A player sometimes sees this coming and will adapt in a mini second to prevent him being hurt.
We often say “if his leg was planted it would have been broken”.
Defenders need to stay on their feet and not dive in.
Midfielders need to stop going over the ball.
Goalkeepers need to stop coming out and lifting their knees up.
Will they? Of course not ,so refs and VAR officials need to have a better understanding of what’s malicious and what’s not.
I’ve played football to a decent standard never once went into a tackle not to win the ball,was I late,yes many times.
Would I know if I meant to hurt someone,of course I would.
I think most of us now know the divers.
We no the hard tacklers the dirty players and the outright cheaters.
It’s about time refs and VAR start doing their jobs better.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 21, 2021)

On the subject of spending and Net spend - I think the liverpool model is absolutely brilliant and credit to the owners for following it so strongly over the years - the club is very secure. If only every owner of a football team operated in a similar fashion, we wouldnt be seeing the Bury situation!


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



https://t.co/Jy9THY5su8

Didn't notice at the time but Ronaldo was going down before zouma even got to him lol
		
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Yep, he's seen the defender fly in, made sure he gets to the ball first, and then anticipates the impact is coming. If players simply stayed on their feet, assuming no contact, and only contact impacts on their balance, I'd imagine there would be many nasty injuries. I've done it myself, where I've fallen to the ground when trying to get out of the way of a challenge. Sometimes I might be able to stay on my feet, other times no chance, it just depends on my momentum and balance at the time. It seems like referees are going to be happy with defenders flying into challenges this season, and offer no punishment if no or minimal contact is made (or contact after ball). We all saw the challenge of Tarkowski on Richarlison last week that went unpunished. The officials do not have a clue. They are trying to rigidly stick to guidelines directed to them, they have no form of common sense or understanding of what is and what is not acceptable.

In all reality, do fans really know what is and what is not an acceptable challenge anymore? Do professional defenders even know? I'm all for letting the game flow, and letting game go on when a player throws themselves to the ground after getting a gentle nudge on the back (like defenders often do when trying to shield ball deep in their own half). But if players dive into a challenge, do not win the ball and the opponent is either hit or has to take evasive action, the ref needs to act.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2021)

Interesting comments on Ronaldo going down before the contact and indeed with zero contact at all - Ronaldo anticipated the tackle and went down , it’s diving/simulation - if he thinks the tackle is coming then why not “jump over it” - the reason why is because if there is contact he will get the penalty. 

He has fell on the floor dramatically with no contact at all - it’s a dive


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## Stuart_C (Sep 21, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			To protect himself from the clumsy loaf
*Move on to next week now and the next one* 

Click to expand...

Until its Mane and we'll have 5 pages of accusations 🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Sep 21, 2021)

I think we'd all agree diving has ruined the game and the only way to stop it is to stop giving fouls when these big strong powerful athletes get blown over by the shadow of a defender. 

I think with the new rules the refs are adhering to we've seen a huge decline in numbers of dives and silly fouls given to date. Long may it continue 

Most players now are staying  on their feet when they'd have gone down in previous seasons. It's a better game although there's still fouls that aren't given when they most definitely should be, Tarkowski on Richarlison example.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yep, he's seen the defender fly in, made sure he gets to the ball first, and then anticipates the impact is coming. If players simply stayed on their feet, assuming no contact, and only contact impacts on their balance, I'd imagine there would be many nasty injuries. I've done it myself, where I've fallen to the ground when trying to get out of the way of a challenge. Sometimes I might be able to stay on my feet, other times no chance, it just depends on my momentum and balance at the time. It seems like referees are going to be happy with defenders flying into challenges this season, and offer no punishment if no or minimal contact is made (or contact after ball). We all saw the challenge of Tarkowski on Richarlison last week that went unpunished. The officials do not have a clue. They are trying to rigidly stick to guidelines directed to them, they have no form of common sense or understanding of what is and what is not acceptable.

In all reality, do fans really know what is and what is not an acceptable challenge anymore? Do professional defenders even know? I'm all for letting the game flow, and letting game go on when a player throws themselves to the ground after getting a gentle nudge on the back (like defenders often do when trying to shield ball deep in their own half). But if players dive into a challenge, do not win the ball and the opponent is either hit or has to take evasive action, the ref needs to act.
		
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I dont think one decision means that that is the norm, though.

I think most refs/VAR refs would have at least booked Tarkowski for his bad one on Richarlison. The same for Ronaldo's 1st pen shout, I think most would have given that as a pen, just not the ones on the day.


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## hairball_89 (Sep 21, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			snip...

It’s about time refs and VAR start doing their jobs better.
		
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100% agreement here. All day long. 

VAR can only work if the people using it are doing their job correctly, and the current bunch of referees all, collectively are not good enough. As was demonstrated this weekend in pretty much every single game. I don't think I've ever been to a match and come away without hearing someone say the ref was awful, and yes we will all believe at times the referee was biased against our team. 

But by god the biggest thing VAR coming in has shown is how bad some of these refs are. but at least they're equally awful for everyone?!


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting comments on Ronaldo going down before the contact and indeed with zero contact at all - Ronaldo anticipated the tackle and went down , it’s diving/simulation - if he thinks the tackle is coming then why not “jump over it” - the reason why is because if there is contact he will get the penalty.

He has fell on the floor dramatically with no contact at all - it’s a dive
		
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You did watch the clip, right? Or does that not bother you because it was Ronaldo and United?

He stretched with his foot to get to the ball first. That would have been the foot his weight would have been on. Given he'd stretched forward, he would struggle greatly to then jump upwards from it. And, if he'd tried, he risks a snapped ankle had the defender than made contact.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think one decision means that that is the norm, though.

I think most refs/VAR refs would have at least booked Tarkowski for his bad one on Richarlison. The same for Ronaldo's 1st pen shout, I think most would have given that as a pen, just not the ones on the day.
		
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Hope you are right. But, I think refs are instinctively trying to let things go based on what they've been asked, and so they are less likely to stop play for hard challenges. It seems that VAR has really done nothing to lessen inconsistency though


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## Dando (Sep 21, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Yep that’s still a penalty. Not sure why anyone would suggest it isn’t.
		
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## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I think we'd all agree diving has ruined the game and the only way to stop it is to stop giving fouls when these big strong powerful athletes get blown over by the shadow of a defender.

I think with the new rules the refs are adhering to we've seen a huge decline in numbers of dives and silly fouls given to date. Long may it continue

Most players now are staying  on their feet when they'd have gone down in previous seasons. It's a better game although there's still fouls that aren't given when they most definitely should be, Tarkowski on Richarlison example.
		
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Ronaldos first other day the ball had gone he saw a leg mad sure he wrapped his round.. vardy esk


Now IF this was a change in applying the rules and now this isn't a pen (same as the simulation for the zouma one) then I think most fans would be all for it


However what I think is more likely is that it was weak from the ref and we simple have poor officials


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 21, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			It’s interesting when we talk about diving or trailing legs etc
When a defender is at full stretch or his full force goes into a challenge or a player goes over the top serious injuries can occur.
A player sometimes sees this coming and will adapt in a mini second to prevent him being hurt.
We often say “if his leg was planted it would have been broken”.
Defenders need to stay on their feet and not dive in.
Midfielders need to stop going over the ball.
Goalkeepers need to stop coming out and lifting their knees up.
Will they? Of course not ,so refs and VAR officials need to have a better understanding of what’s malicious and what’s not.
I’ve played football to a decent standard never once went into a tackle not to win the ball,was I late,yes many times.
Would I know if I meant to hurt someone,of course I would.
I think most of us now know the divers.
We no the hard tacklers the dirty players and the outright cheaters.
It’s about time refs and VAR start doing their jobs better.
		
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I agree with some of the above, but:-

Would you ban the slide tackle? - I wouldn't.
Goalkeepers knees / punching - Definitely agree.
Yes, we do know the divers in the main - Richarlison, Mane, Ronaldo, Kane are among the worst - do you referee a game according to the rules, or based on who the individual is - a very tough line, but that is where the benefit of the doubt "unofficial" rules come in. We dont like it when it goes against us, love it when it does.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			You did watch the clip, right? Or does that not bother you because it was Ronaldo and United?

He stretched with his foot to get to the ball first. That would have been the foot his weight would have been on. Given he'd stretched forward, he would struggle greatly to then jump upwards from it. And, if he'd tried, he risks a snapped ankle had the defender than made contact.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/942111903253499904
What about this one? Bear in mind he got the pen then a ban for diving retrospectively one of only 2 players to ever get one (both not at "top clubs")


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Hope you are right. But, I think refs are instinctively trying to let things go based on what they've been asked, and so they are less likely to stop play for hard challenges. It seems that VAR has really done nothing to lessen inconsistency though
		
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I dont think the refs have been given the ok to allow hard challenges to stand, more told to not let slight contact fouls.

I used to work with a premiership linesman, and every month they had a meeting and went through controversial decisions and watched videos together and discussed directives. I would think it would be the same now, but a level of inconsistency will always be there.

Personally, I think it would improve if you had a stable of say 20 recently retired referees and 10 ex players, with 3 per game (2 refs, 1 player) as the VAR officials every week so then there is a better idea of the directives/consistency applied for VAR. That would be better than current refs doing it, as they are making a holy mess of it.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/942111903253499904
What about this one? Bear in mind he got the pen then a ban for diving retrospectively one of only 2 players to ever get one (both not at "top clubs")
		
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Interesting one that. Again, the defender has started to lunge in. Stopped the lunge, but still edged in front of player. I think the ban on the player for diving is probably harsh, we could probably point to this sort of fall in most games.

A lot of opinion seems to be that the onus is on the attacking player to get out of the way of the defender, whether that be by hurdling the challenge completely (whilst maintaining balance), or keeping balance after minor contact. Yet, if the defender was not there in the first place, lunging into a challenge, then there would be no falling over or potential injury.

Harvey Elliot didn't see the challenge coming, but had he done the only way he could have avoided it was get his standing foot off the ground, and thus he could have easily fallen over. Would this have been a dive, and possible 2 game ban (if it was in the box)? And, this was a challenge that in many respects, people saw as a fair challenge as he won a lot of the ball.

For me, the simplest question is "has the defender dived in?" If so, "have they won the ball"? If no, then "have they contacted, or gone into the path of the attacker"? If yes, then it is a foul. Defenders should be sure that they are going to win the ball when they dive in, and be sure they do not put the opponent at high risk of injury


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## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Until its Mane and we'll have 5 pages of accusations 🤣🤣
		
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No we all have them Stu


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think the refs have been given the ok to allow hard challenges to stand, more told to not let slight contact fouls.

I used to work with a premiership linesman, and every month they had a meeting and went through controversial decisions and watched videos together and discussed directives. I would think it would be the same now, but a level of inconsistency will always be there.

Personally, I think it would improve if you had a stable of say 20 recently retired referees and 10 ex players, with 3 per game (2 refs, 1 player) as the VAR officials every week so then there is a better idea of the directives/consistency applied for VAR. That would be better than current refs doing it, as they are making a holy mess of it.
		
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As long as the ex Player is not Merson. He doesn't half talk some rubbish


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## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree with some of the above, but:-

Would you ban the slide tackle? - I wouldn't.
Goalkeepers knees / punching - Definitely agree.
Yes, we do know the divers in the main - Richarlison, Mane, Ronaldo, Kane are among the worst - do you referee a game according to the rules, or based on who the individual is - a very tough line, but that is where the benefit of the doubt "unofficial" rules come in. We dont like it when it goes against us, love it when it does.
		
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Very true Pete
The game is so fast these day nigh on impossible for the ref.
However it’s easy for VAR all the technology is there.
Fans can see it clearly but for some reason VAR cant


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## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting comments on Ronaldo going down before the contact and indeed with zero contact at all - Ronaldo anticipated the tackle and went down , it’s diving/simulation - if he thinks the tackle is coming then why not “jump over it” - the reason why is because if there is contact he will get the penalty. 

He has fell on the floor dramatically with no contact at all - it’s a dive
		
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You’ve never played the game though have you.
Let’s see you call out your players 
I think most proper Liverpool fans on here said the 1st and 3rd challenges on Ronaldo were pens as did most Utd fans.
The 2nd challenge clearly was not.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			As long as the ex Player is not Merson. He doesn't half talk some rubbish 

Click to expand...

 I was thinking Graeme Souness, Roy Keane, Fash the bash, Terry Hurlock, Peter Reid......


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## Tashyboy (Sep 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



https://t.co/Jy9THY5su8

Didn't notice at the time but Ronaldo was going down before zouma even got to him lol
		
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There was a couple of things that I noticed from the weekends games. When Kyle Walker got sent off then sent on, during that coming together the Saints player at one point had both feet off the ground Before he and Walker made contact. Even if just for a split second. Both feet were off the ground. So by the letter of the law, he is not in control. It’s a red. I don’t agree with the ruling. That said, Walkers challenge was clumsy. I said nowt coz it’s rose tinted glasses. 
The Ronaldo incident where he is going down. It was another clumsy challenge. But Ronaldo was already going down. So is it a yellow. Again it is not worth saying owt because of ones glasses colour, agenda etc.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			You did watch the clip, right? Or does that not bother you because it was Ronaldo and United?

He stretched with his foot to get to the ball first. That would have been the foot his weight would have been on. Given he'd stretched forward, he would struggle greatly to then jump upwards from it. And, if he'd tried, he risks a snapped ankle had the defender than made contact.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I watched the clip

Was Ronaldo touched ? Nope 

So he chose to go to ground and his legs collapsed under him. 

he went down expected contact and expecting to be given a penalty - so it’s not a foul and dive 

The other challenge was one where he was touched and there was contact that impeded him and it should have been a penalty 

We have seen it from other players in the past and it’s the same conclusion - if a player has gone to ground without being touched then it’s diving


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## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You’ve never played the game though have you.
Let’s see you call out your players
I think most proper Liverpool fans on here said the 1st and 3rd challenges on Ronaldo were pens as did most Utd fans.
The 2nd challenge clearly was not.
		
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Id say of Ronaldos I was surprised 1st wasn't given as we have been used to them being given for ages 

3rd no for me as he was already on the way down but he was just clever 

Then again if he just got the contact and rode the challenge he would get the pen


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## Tashyboy (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			You did watch the clip, right? Or does that not bother you because it was Ronaldo and United?

He stretched with his foot to get to the ball first. That would have been the foot his weight would have been on. Given he'd stretched forward, he would struggle greatly to then jump upwards from it. And, if he'd tried, he risks a snapped ankle had the defender than made contact.
		
Click to expand...

Is that in response to the Twitter video clip of Ronaldo going down 👍


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## Orikoru (Sep 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



https://t.co/Jy9THY5su8

Didn't notice at the time but Ronaldo was going down before zouma even got to him lol
		
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That's an awful tackle. 100% a penalty. There doesn't need to be contact. This is the first time I've seen it as well so I'm judging off that angle alone. He's dived in, got nowhere near the ball and right across the front of the player! Stone wall.


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## Orikoru (Sep 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes I watched the clip

Was Ronaldo touched ? Nope

So he chose to go to ground and his legs collapsed under him.

he went down expected contact and expecting to be given a penalty - so it’s not a foul and dive

The other challenge was one where he was touched and there was contact that impeded him and it should have been a penalty

We have seen it from other players in the past and it’s the same conclusion - if a player has gone to ground without being touched then it’s diving
		
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I cannot understand how you can watch a defender go flying in, missing the ball and going right across the forward's path and impeding him - so he has to either jump over him, go down, or take a potentially broken ankle - and you think it's ok if that tackle goes completely unpunished?? I think that's mental. It's not 1980 anymore.


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## Kellfire (Sep 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes I watched the clip

Was Ronaldo touched ? Nope

So he chose to go to ground and his legs collapsed under him.

he went down expected contact and expecting to be given a penalty - so it’s not a foul and dive

The other challenge was one where he was touched and there was contact that impeded him and it should have been a penalty

We have seen it from other players in the past and it’s the same conclusion - if a player has gone to ground without being touched then it’s diving
		
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The rules say it’s a foul so what you want isn’t really relevant.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I cannot understand how you can watch a defender go flying in, missing the ball and going right across the forward's path and impeding him - so he has to either jump over him, go down, or take a potentially broken ankle - and you think it's ok if that tackle goes completely unpunished?? I think that's mental. It's not 1980 anymore.
		
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Have you actually seen the clip, watch Ronaldos trailing foot, he is dragging his foot across the floor. It is so un natural. He is looking for contact. Or as you say a potential broken ankle. He is looking for contact and looking for a penalty. No penalty for me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			The rules say it’s a foul so what you want isn’t really relevant.
		
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So if it’s a foul who took the penalty ?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if it’s a foul who took the penalty ?
		
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That comments assumes the officials get the decisions right 100% of the time 

You know that not to be the case, as you only just said:

*"The other challenge was one where he was touched and there was contact that impeded him and it should have been a penalty"*


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			That comments assumes the officials get the decisions right 100% of the time 

You know that not to be the case, as you only just said:

*"The other challenge was one where he was touched and there was contact that impeded him and it should have been a penalty"*

Click to expand...

Apologies was responding to his standard flippant response with another 👍


I remember when Gerrard went through there was a sliding tackle and he hurdled it and they still gave a penalty 

In the video shown and whilst it’s slowed down - Ronaldo is going down before any contact at all - so he has made the conscious choice to dive to the floor in the manner as if he was taken out by the defender. The way he has gone down he is clearly looking for a penalty and it’s the sort of actions that we have all bemoaned when a penalty has been given against us -  we had when Mane and Salah go down in the same way without a touch - it’s a dive imo


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apologies was responding to his standard flippant response with another 👍


I remember when Gerrard went through there was a sliding tackle and he hurdled it and they still gave a penalty

In the video shown and whilst it’s slowed down - *Ronaldo is going down before any contact at all* - so he has made the conscious choice to dive to the floor in the manner as if he was taken out by the defender. The way he has gone down he is clearly looking for a penalty and it’s the sort of actions that we have all bemoaned when a penalty has been given against us -  we had when Mane and Salah go down in the same way without a touch - it’s a dive imo
		
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Just looking at the video again, Ronaldo is still in full flight, going for the ball, whilst Zouma is already flying into the challenge. The very first hint that Ronaldo is going down, just after getting to the ball first, Zouma is at full stretch, leg fully across Ronaldo's path. If I was Ronaldo, I would be fully expecting to be wiped out, and taking evasive action. If I didn't, then there is a high chance I'd get cleaned out, maybe even badly injured. There is no thought in my mind that Ronaldo has thought "I'm going to try and con the ref here". It is an instinctive action to avoid a rash challenge. Had Ronaldo been further ahead of Zouma, then he may have been able to avoid the challenge and stay on his feet. But, he was stretching forward to make sure he got there first.


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## Orikoru (Sep 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Have you actually seen the clip, watch Ronaldos trailing foot, he is dragging his foot across the floor. It is so un natural. He is looking for contact. Or as you say a potential broken ankle. He is looking for contact and looking for a penalty. No penalty for me.
		
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All of which is irrelevant. 'Looking for it' has no place in the rules. You can be looking for a penalty all you like, if somebody then impedes you in the box then you should have one.


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## Canary_Yellow (Sep 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			All of which is irrelevant. 'Looking for it' has no place in the rules. You can be looking for a penalty all you like, if somebody then impedes you in the box then you should have one.
		
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It's a tricky one because he goes down before he is impeded. Clearly he has dived because his hitting the deck was independent of Zouma's dodgy tackle, and you can see he's planning to try and win a soft one by dragging his foot along the turf looking for contact. 

On the other hand, had he not already fallen over, he would subsequently have been fouled and it would have been a penalty.

I think it's quite reasonable to go with the on pitch decision here, I don't think either call would have been inherently wrong. If I had to come off the fence one side or the other, I'd say Ronaldo dived before Zouma committed a foul and therefore no pen, freekick to WHU and a yellow for CR7.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			It's a tricky one because he goes down before he is impeded. Clearly he has dived because his hitting the deck was independent of Zouma's dodgy tackle, and you can see he's planning to try and win a soft one by dragging his foot along the turf looking for contact.

On the other hand, had he not already fallen over, he would subsequently have been fouled and it would have been a penalty.

I think it's quite reasonable to go with the on pitch decision here, I don't think either call would have been inherently wrong. If I had to come off the fence one side or the other, I'd say Ronaldo dived before Zouma committed a foul and therefore no pen, freekick to WHU and a yellow for CR7.
		
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For me I think you have hit the nail on the head there .. VAR is still used (which fans don't remember) for clear and obvious errors, when the on field official makes a call if it's clear why he made the call and it's 50/50 they won't send them over. They only do when it's something missed like the hand ball 

Soucek challenge he ruled soucek fouled him so wasn't overturned

Win some lose some


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## Tashyboy (Sep 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			All of which is irrelevant. 'Looking for it' has no place in the rules. You can be looking for a penalty all you like, if somebody then impedes you in the box then you should have one.
		
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Yes but you mention he could get a broken ankle, but he deliberately drags his foot across the floor to get contact so he could possibly break his ankle. Ronaldo made his mind up he was going down before any contact was made. If he had not been going down before contact. It is a nailed on penalty.


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## Orikoru (Sep 21, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			It's a tricky one because he goes down before he is impeded. Clearly he has dived because his hitting the deck was independent of Zouma's dodgy tackle, and you can see he's planning to try and win a soft one by dragging his foot along the turf looking for contact.

On the other hand, had he not already fallen over, he would subsequently have been fouled and it would have been a penalty.

I think it's quite reasonable to go with the on pitch decision here, I don't think either call would have been inherently wrong. If I had to come off the fence one side or the other, I'd say Ronaldo dived before Zouma committed a foul and therefore no pen, freekick to WHU and a yellow for CR7.
		
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I see it this way: Ronaldo is sprinting into the box. He sees that Zouma is going to ground, and given his experience and ability, he knows that he can get to the ball first and that Zouma has no chance of winning it. So ensure he does this, while at the same time going over the poor challenge in a way that doesn't injure himself. A lot of people in this thread who might be stuck in the past (no names) will call it diving, but my opinion is that a mistimed tackle that impedes the player is a foul no matter what. If the tackle was nowhere near the forward and he goes down you can call it a dive, but the fact is he slides right across his path! It's impeding him one way or another, and he certainly was nowhere near winning the ball - so it's a foul.


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## Orikoru (Sep 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Yes but you mention he could get a broken ankle, but he deliberately drags his foot across the floor to get contact so he could possibly break his ankle. Ronaldo made his mind up he was going down before any contact was made. If he had not been going down before contact. It is a nailed on penalty.
		
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Still doesn't matter for me. As soon as Zouma goes flying in on the ground and totally misses the ball he's on shaky ground and deserves to have a penalty given against him. You dive in inside the box, you have to take the ball, it's simple.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			For me I think you have hit the nail on the head there .. VAR is still used (which fans don't remember) for *clear and obvious errors*, when the on field official makes a call if it's clear why he made the call and it's 50/50 they won't send them over. They only do when it's something missed like the hand ball

Soucek challenge he ruled soucek fouled him so wasn't overturned

Win some lose some
		
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Firstly, that bold statement is a joke. Not by you, I agree with what you say. But, VAR is used on many many occasions when the decision is even more balanced than the "tackles" on Ronaldo 

In the match we discuss, I think everyone on here at least seems to agree the 1st challenge on Ronaldo was a foul. Ref didn't give it, VAR didn't even bother to ask the ref to have a look at it again. The second challenge (Zouma) is a clear foul in my eyes, but some seem to disagree because Ronaldo had started to fall before contact was made. However, if that is the case, you are asking attackers to stay on their feet and ignore the fact that, if they do, they may get their leg snapped in 2 (at least they'd get a penalty, every cloud). How can you have a situation where defenders can fly into a challenge and get away with it so long at the attacker jumps out of the way (and loses the ball, thus ending the attack)? If Ronaldo had tried to stay on his feet, where would his foot have been in the image below? Who knows, but it could have been on the end of a bright orange boot.




The truth is, has VAR made the game any clearer. I've no doubt that many VAR refs would have has the on field ref review both incidents above, some don't. In many respects, I feel the on field referee is less likely to make a big decision, because they feel it is better to let the game flow, and VAR can sort it out. However, if VAR doesn't, you have a situation where many more nasty challenges will go unpunished. I still truly believe that VAR should be binned, or literally only used when either the on field ref asks to see an incident again (as his view was blocked), or there is an off the ball incident, or offside (as long as they've fixed the diabolical use of offside from last season and the length of a toenail)


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 21, 2021)

Thank heavens there is Carabou Cup football tonight so that we can move the conversation back to proper football chat 😆


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## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Firstly, that bold statement is a joke. Not by you, I agree with what you say. But, VAR is used on many many occasions when the decision is even more balanced than the "tackles" on Ronaldo

In the match we discuss, I think everyone on here at least seems to agree the 1st challenge on Ronaldo was a foul. Ref didn't give it, VAR didn't even bother to ask the ref to have a look at it again. The second challenge (Zouma) is a clear foul in my eyes, but some seem to disagree because Ronaldo had started to fall before contact was made. However, if that is the case, you are asking attackers to stay on their feet and ignore the fact that, if they do, they may get their leg snapped in 2 (at least they'd get a penalty, every cloud). How can you have a situation where defenders can fly into a challenge and get away with it so long at the attacker jumps out of the way (and loses the ball, thus ending the attack)? If Ronaldo had tried to stay on his feet, where would his foot have been in the image below? Who knows, but it could have been on the end of a bright orange boot.

View attachment 38588


The truth is, has VAR made the game any clearer. I've no doubt that many VAR refs would have has the on field ref review both incidents above, some don't. In many respects, I feel the on field referee is less likely to make a big decision, because they feel it is better to let the game flow, and VAR can sort it out. However, if VAR doesn't, you have a situation where many more nasty challenges will go unpunished. I still truly believe that VAR should be binned, or literally only used when either the on field ref asks to see an incident again (as his view was blocked), or there is an off the ball incident, or offside (as long as they've fixed the diabolical use of offside from last season and the length of a toenail)
		
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In the picture on the left he moved his body towards the defender to force contact, I hope these kind of pens are kicked out the game we have seen vardy win them for years ..see a foot wrap his round it .. pen

Second one @Orikoru (tagging as was going to reply this to yourself) zouma would have won the ball if Ronaldo didn't nip it away (but he was never under control of the ball he nipped it away then went down) then he has completely fabricated the entire situation to try and win a pen

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/cristiano-ronaldo-penalty-west-ham-b1923468.html

Now former ref Dermot Gallagher agrees the second wasn't a pen however he says the first was, I agree the first should be by the way they have been creeping in for years

Personally I want the first one stamped out the game but it should have been a pen

Second not a chance

However can we all agree in both pics his "fall" is so exaggerated that it prob doesn't help him.. just fall naturally


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## Billysboots (Sep 21, 2021)

In other news, I see Hungary have been ordered to play a further two games behind closed doors and fined £150k following the abhorrent racist abuse of England players.

Wow, that’ll teach ‘em. Not.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			In other news, I see Hungary have been ordered to play a further two games behind closed doors and fined £150k following the abhorrent racist abuse of England players.

Wow, that’ll teach ‘em. Not.
		
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I have a feeling one of those games is suspended as well 😕. They are likely stupid enough to do it again though it sadly it will kick in at some point. Grim


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## Billysboots (Sep 21, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I have a feeling one of those games is suspended as well 😕. They are likely stupid enough to do it again though it sadly it will kick in at some point. Grim
		
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They haven’t learned previously. Kick ‘em out, I say.


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## Fade and Die (Sep 21, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			In the picture on the left he moved his body towards the defender to force contact, I hope these kind of pens are kicked out the game we have seen vardy win them for years ..see a foot wrap his round it .. pen

Second one @Orikoru (tagging as was going to reply this to yourself) zouma would have won the ball if Ronaldo didn't nip it away (but he was never under control of the ball he nipped it away then went down) then he has completely fabricated the entire situation to try and win a pen

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/cristiano-ronaldo-penalty-west-ham-b1923468.html

Now former ref Dermot Gallagher agrees the second wasn't a pen however he says the first was, I agree the first should be by the way they have been creeping in for years

Personally I want the first one stamped out the game but it should have been a pen

Second not a chance

However can we all agree in both pics his "fall" is so exaggerated that it prob doesn't help him.. just fall naturally
		
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Can we all just agree it was an absolute joy to see Ronaldo rolling around like he had been shot then wailing at the sky when he didn’t get the decision? 




I’ve missed this. 😂😂😂

(Yeah yeah haters gotta hate 😏)


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## DanFST (Sep 21, 2021)

I'm trying to be unbiased. But I hate these pens, if I was 10 years younger i'd have had a chance at a decent football career. I don't think you should be rewarded for getting a touch on the ball to kick it out of play before a defender, 99% of these touches aren't in control of the ball, they just got there first, the defender has to actively try and have some control over it. If most of these are near the corner flag, no one bats an eyelid. 

But the way the game and rules are now, both are probably pens. 2nd Ronaldo is dragging his ankle before he's anywhere near Zouma, thats far more dangerous then trying to stay on your feet, one strong touch at that angle and ligaments are gone.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			In other news, I see Hungary have been ordered to play a further two games behind closed doors and fined £150k following the abhorrent racist abuse of England players.

Wow, that’ll teach ‘em. Not.
		
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£50k less than Leeds were fined for watching Derby train.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I'm trying to be unbiased. But I hate these pens, if I was 10 years younger i'd have had a chance at a decent football career. I don't think you should be rewarded for getting a touch on the ball to kick it out of play before a defender, 99% of these touches aren't in control of the ball, they just got there first, the defender has to actively try and have some control over it. If most of these are near the corner flag, no one bats an eyelid.

But the way the game and rules are now, both are probably pens. 2nd Ronaldo is dragging his ankle before he's anywhere near Zouma, thats far more dangerous then trying to stay on your feet, one strong touch at that angle and ligaments are gone.
		
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What is the difference between the laces of a players boot touching the ground, or his boot being in the air? How does one make it more likely to cause him damage if defender smashes in to him? You do realise the laces of his boot don't anchor him to the ground like his studs?


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## DanFST (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			What is the difference between the laces of a players boot touching the ground, or his boot being in the air? How does one make it more likely to cause him damage if defender smashes in to him? You do realise the laces of his boot don't anchor him to the ground like his studs?
		
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That's already a hell of a lot of stress on his right ATFL without even being touched. As somone who's foot and ankles are FUBAR (mine). It's not good.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

DanFST said:



View attachment 38592


That's already a hell of a lot of stress on his right ATFL without even being touched. As somone who's foot and ankles are FUBAR (mine). It's not good.
		
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Really, never heard of a player injuring themselves by brushing their foot against the ground in such a fashion. I can do it myself at home, and no fear of injuring myself, despite not being a trained athlete. But, will leave it up to the experts to inform us what a perilous move is to do such a thing.

Anyway, Norwich couldn't hit a barn door. Played so well up to that point, and no quality in front of goal. Liverpool 2nd string punishing them (to be fair, no idea what strength of team Norwich are fielding)


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Really, never heard of a player injuring themselves by brushing their foot against the ground in such a fashion. I can do it myself at home, and no fear of injuring myself, despite not being a trained athlete. But, will leave it up to the experts to inform us what a perilous move is to do such a thing.

Anyway, Norwich couldn't hit a barn door. Played so well up to that point, and no quality in front of goal. Liverpool 2nd string punishing them (to be fair, no idea what strength of team Norwich are fielding)
		
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Yep, and the Norwich one was deffo a pen, I'll brook no arguments.


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## DanFST (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Really, never heard of a player injuring themselves by brushing their foot against the ground in such a fashion. I can do it myself at home, and no fear of injuring myself, despite not being a trained athlete. But, will leave it up to the experts to inform us what a perilous move is to do such a thing.
		
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Have you got a 6 ft 2 Defender sliding at you in your kitchen?
You are obviously right tho, everyone's ankle is built to do that with such force you can bend the plastic sole of a football boot.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Have you got a 6 ft 2 Defender sliding at you in your kitchen?
You are obviously right tho, everyone's ankle is built to do that with such force you can bend the plastic sole of a football boot. 

Click to expand...

Why mention the defender, you've already claimed he is putting significant stress on himself without being touched. Absolute rubbish.


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## DanFST (Sep 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Why mention the defender, you've already claimed he is putting significant stress on himself without being touched. Absolute rubbish.
		
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He is indeed, if he was to be touched with that amount of plantarflexion, that's a ruined ankle and brostrom surgery. Which I can tell you from experience is incredibly painful. 

I'd maybe give up on this one and re read my posts.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 21, 2021)

As


DanFST said:



			He is indeed, if he was to be touched with that amount of plantarflexion, that's a ruined ankle and brostrom surgery. Which I can tell you from experience is incredibly painful.

I'd maybe give up on this one and re read my posts.
		
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 As I said, you are talking absolute nonsense there.

Basically, you are suggesting that, not only is he diving to try and win a penalty, but he is putting himself at high risk of getting a nasty injury in doing so.

You do realise how clueless you are coming across? Fair enough if you wanna debate dive or not, but to suggest a player would do so at significant risk to.themselves is frankly embarrassing. Especially a player who has played goodness knows how many games, been challenged more than most in history in these situations, and never really had a significant injury that I remember. 

The bending of the foot is absolutely nothing unusual, it is not bent beyond the limits of normal capability. The strength or non strength of the boot is irrelevant. There are plenty of sports where players slide in a lunge type movement, and often their trail foot would be in a similar position. 

I think your argument, in actual fact, may be the most absurd and ridiculous one I've ever heard in a football forum. Congratulations for that.


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## Dando (Sep 22, 2021)

Tom Daley has asked Ronaldo for some tips


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## Tashyboy (Sep 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			He is indeed, if he was to be touched with that amount of plantarflexion, that's a ruined ankle and brostrom surgery. Which I can tell you from experience is incredibly painful.

I'd maybe give up on this one and re read my posts.
		
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I have had a modified bostrum repair. Very painful indeed 👍


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## Piece (Sep 22, 2021)

In other news....

Trial for standing areas given the go ahead in the new year. It's not for me, but pleased the option should be available for those that wish to do so.


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## sunshine (Sep 22, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			They haven’t learned previously. Kick ‘em out, I say.
		
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You'd then need to kick out most European nations, England included.


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## sunshine (Sep 22, 2021)

On a brighter note, wasn't it great to see QPR knock Everton out of the Carabao Cup last night. I expected Everton to field a team of kids but actually it was a pretty strong team with both sides resting 4 or 5 first choice players.
QPR scored all 8 of their penalties (Southgate take note), and deserved the win after the keeper Dieng saved Ben Godfrey's pen but was penalised for being a couple of inches off his line.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

That's 100% a pen lol noble the old man stopping himself falling


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## Fade and Die (Sep 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			That's 100% a pen lol noble the old man stopping himself falling
		
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Can see Noble getting a Red tonight. How many sliding tackles is he going to get away with.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Can see Noble getting a Red tonight. How many sliding tackles is he going to get away with.
		
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Tackles like scholes without the redeeming parts to his game


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## Fade and Die (Sep 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Tackles like scholes without the redeeming parts to his game
		
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First time I’ve seen Kral…. Looks slower than Noble!🙄


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			First time I’ve seen Kral…. Looks slower than Noble!🙄
		
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Looks a better passer, tackler and has cooler hair


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## Swango1980 (Sep 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Tackles like scholes without the redeeming parts to his game
		
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Although Noble is the best penalty taker in the world - Moyes


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

Oh get him off... Just useless .. thats not taking one for the team that's being so rubbish you have caught yourself out

Fornals on or someone


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Although Noble is the best penalty taker in the world - Moyes
		
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You joke

In 2020 he was rated as the player with the second highest conversion rate for penalty kicks in the world over the last 20 years. His 90.5% conversion rate was only beaten by Robert Lewandowski's rate of 91.1%


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## BiMGuy (Sep 22, 2021)

How's he missed that? 

And that?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

Areloa take over from fabainski now please he looks another level


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

27 attempts by man u.. to our 9 was it? Rob green hit nail on head our 3 Shots on target to their 6 forced the more important saves


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## Fade and Die (Sep 22, 2021)

Well deserved that. Could have been 0-4 at the end 😁

Great for the fans too, noisy all night.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Well deserved that. Could have been 0-4 at the end 😁

Great for the fans too, noisy all night.
		
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Lots of positives for me tonight

Bar Bowen, complete change of team 

Rest for important players 

Keeper looks better than fab who is getting on

Kral looks useful

Diop looked solid


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## pokerjoke (Sep 22, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Well deserved that. Could have been 0-4 at the end 😁

Great for the fans too, noisy all night.
		
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Good luck in the next round 
Thought we might get one at the end
Fringe players just not ruthless enough.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Good luck in the next round
Thought we might get one at the end
Fringe players just not ruthless enough.
		
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Except Fernandez.. shame nobody explained the laws of the game to him lol


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## DanFST (Sep 22, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			As

As I said, you are talking absolute nonsense there.

Basically, you are suggesting that, not only is he diving to try and win a penalty, but he is putting himself at high risk of getting a nasty injury in doing so.

You do realise how clueless you are coming across? Fair enough if you wanna debate dive or not, but to suggest a player would do so at significant risk to.themselves is frankly embarrassing. Especially a player who has played goodness knows how many games, been challenged more than most in history in these situations, and never really had a significant injury that I remember.

The bending of the foot is absolutely nothing unusual, it is not bent beyond the limits of normal capability. The strength or non strength of the boot is irrelevant. There are plenty of sports where players slide in a lunge type movement, and often their trail foot would be in a similar position.

I think your argument, in actual fact, may be the most absurd and ridiculous one I've ever heard in a football forum. Congratulations for that.
		
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Show me one picture of someone's foot in a similar position, this is not dragging your feet. This is dragging your feet with them directly below you, placing bodyweight and stress on ligaments that aren't designed to be used in that way.

You asked a question and I answered as someone with experience of multiple ankle surgeries. If you want to be rude, then carry on. But you do look very silly. Also you should take up ballet if you can get in such positions with no stress.


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## Fade and Die (Sep 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lots of positives for me tonight

Bar Bowen, complete change of team

Rest for important players

Keeper looks better than fab who is getting on

Kral looks useful

Diop looked solid
		
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Diop was immense tonight and Areola should start from now on, not convinced about side show Kral yet. Hope I’m wrong obviously but seemed a bit negative.

Yarmenko is nicking a living btw!


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Diop was immense tonight and Areola should start from now on, not convinced about side show Kral yet. Hope I’m wrong obviously but seemed a bit negative.

Yarmenko is nicking a living btw!
		
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Everyone has it in for yarmeleko, he does a job and important squad player 

Kral will be the same. Exactly who I want in when soucek or rice is out rather than cart out noble again


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## Fade and Die (Sep 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Everyone has it in for yarmeleko, he does a job and important squad player

Kral will be the same. Exactly who I want in when soucek or rice is out rather than cart out noble again
		
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We obviously see it different, i though Yarmo was quite poor, verging on F******* Hell!! 

Thought Johnson had a really good game, gutted for Fredericks who looked lively, hope it’s not serious, our squad is thin enough already.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			We obviously see it different, i though Yarmo was quite poor, verging on F******* Hell!!

Thought Johnson had a really good game, gutted for Fredericks who looked lively, hope it’s not serious, our squad is thin enough already.
		
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Twitter and the forums seem happy with kral 

Yarmeleko does a job. He isn't supposed to start but good off bench 

He is the reason we are in the premier League still with that goal 

And proved at the euros still is a player


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440781483354951683
Fernandes 😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440781483354951683
Fernandes 😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
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😂 That's hilarious. Fair play to him though. The drop ball is meaningless anyway since they're barely ever competed anymore. One of those things that happened more in the school playground than it ever has on the pitch.


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## 4LEX (Sep 22, 2021)

Ole really is a clown. Best chance Utd have of winning anything and he oversees that mess. No chance they win the title or CL with a manager of that level.

The side must've cost over £300m and it struggled to create anything clear cut against West Ham's reserves. The subs again weakened the side, an example of terrible management. West Ham put in a shift and looked dangerous on the counter, cracking match.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Show me one picture of someone's foot in a similar position, this is not dragging your feet. This is dragging your feet with them directly below you, placing bodyweight and stress on ligaments that aren't designed to be used in that way.

You asked a question and I answered as someone with experience of multiple ankle surgeries. If you want to be rude, then carry on. But you do look very silly. Also you should take up ballet if you can get in such positions with no stress. 

Click to expand...

Yawn


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## Swango1980 (Sep 22, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Ole really is a clown. Best chance Utd have of winning anything and he oversees that mess. No chance they win the title or CL with a manager of that level.

The side must've cost over £300m and it struggled to create anything clear cut against West Ham's reserves. The subs again weakened the side, an example of terrible management. West Ham put in a shift and looked dangerous on the counter, cracking match.
		
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Usual. Start fairly slowly, like the niceness of Ole rubs off on players, they prance about and concede a goal. Zero urgency or responsibility.

Then you try and score with Martial as a centre forward. Pointless, so easy for defenders, rest of team run into walls. If we had a top centre forward, suddenly the defenders get nervous and get dragged about. 

Still, literally no idea what Ole thinks about tactically. Did anyone see him on touchline motivating players, pushing them on. Fixing mistakes? I can't remember seeing him, but why would I? It is like he is playing Championship Manager. Get as many good players as possible, pick a side, give them their positions, then sit back and see what happens.


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## 4LEX (Sep 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Usual. Start fairly slowly, like the niceness of Ole rubs off on players, they prance about and concede a goal. Zero urgency or responsibility.

Then you try and score with Martial as a centre forward. Pointless, so easy for defenders, rest of team run into walls. If we had a top centre forward, suddenly the defenders get nervous and get dragged about.

Still, literally no idea what Ole thinks about tactically. Did anyone see him on touchline motivating players, pushing them on. Fixing mistakes? I can't remember seeing him, but why would I? It is like he is playing Championship Manager. Get as many good players as possible, pick a side, give them their positions, then sit back and see what happens.
		
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The crazy thing is Ole's whole outlook is start fast and press with intensity. Yet it never happens, bar the odd game against City or Liverpool.

The most bizzare aspect is that was the best Utd have played all season in terms of dominating a game and style. I thought DVB and Sancho looked really dangerous and were beating people for fun. Lingard was excellent in the first half too. If Ronaldo had started it would've been a whitewash. Martial is just a paperweight, while Bruno came on and tried to win 2 games by himself. Ole is about to get found out and has no excuses this time.


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## Junior (Sep 23, 2021)

First nail in the coffin for Ole.

Dominated possession but the lack of a movement by the  CF meant we created nothing and the final ball could never be played.  

Fair play to WH, thought the defence played well and they looked dangerous on the counter.  Also thought Matic was poor and lucky to stay on the pitch when he kneed the WH player off the ball.


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## Slime (Sep 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440781483354951683
Fernandes 😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...


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## Tashyboy (Sep 23, 2021)

It had been said time and again. Utd are where they are despite of the manager. He does not get 100% out of his players. Which is fortunate for city Liverpool Chelsea and West Ham. That aside. It’s good for football that the underdogs upset. Apart from the next round 😉


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## Swango1980 (Sep 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It had been said time and again. Utd are where they are despite if the manager. He does not get 100% out of his players. Which is fortunate for city Liverpool Chelsea and West Ham. That aside. It’s good for football that the underdogs upset. Apart from the next round 😉
		
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Now Utd are out of the EFL Cup, going to be limited game time for Martial, Mata, Telles, Dalot, Lindelof, De Beek and Bailley for the remainder of the season. If only Cavani was fit, it would have been interesting to see how the dynamic of the game in attack would have been different.

I always wonder how this Utd team would do if Pep or Klopp were in charge? Or, another way to look at it is as follows,  if Ole was in charge of Liverpool, City or Chelsea, would people still consider them title contenders, with the same likelihood as they are considered now? Utd are generally considered 4th favourites for title, and I go along with that. But, if Utd had Klopp and Liverpool had Ole, would people feel the same?

Bit of a struggle at the moment for managers who were ex players, Ole and Arteta under serious scrutiny this season.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Now Utd are out of the EFL Cup, going to be limited game time for Martial, Mata, Telles, Dalot, Lindelof, De Beek and Bailley for the remainder of the season. If only Cavani was fit, it would have been interesting to see how the dynamic of the game in attack would have been different.

I always wonder how this Utd team would do if Pep or Klopp were in charge? Or, another way to look at it is as follows,  if Ole was in charge of Liverpool, City or Chelsea, would people still consider them title contenders, with the same likelihood as they are considered now? Utd are generally considered 4th favourites for title, and I go along with that. But, if Utd had Klopp and Liverpool had Ole, would people feel the same?

Bit of a struggle at the moment for managers who were ex players, Ole and Arteta under serious scrutiny this season.
		
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I think Klopp could win the league with United - maybe not this year but he could do it with their squad. Klopp is absolutely top class - in my opinion, the best of the lot.

Ole is a fraud


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## Tashyboy (Sep 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Now Utd are out of the EFL Cup, going to be limited game time for Martial, Mata, Telles, Dalot, Lindelof, De Beek and Bailley for the remainder of the season. If only Cavani was fit, it would have been interesting to see how the dynamic of the game in attack would have been different.

I always wonder how this Utd team would do if Pep or Klopp were in charge? Or, another way to look at it is as follows,  if Ole was in charge of Liverpool, City or Chelsea, would people still consider them title contenders, with the same likelihood as they are considered now? Utd are generally considered 4th favourites for title, and I go along with that. But, if Utd had Klopp and Liverpool had Ole, would people feel the same?

Bit of a struggle at the moment for managers who were ex players, Ole and Arteta under serious scrutiny this season.
		
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This sums it up perfectly for me. Although the thought of City having Ole fills me with dread. I remember Stuart Pearce managing City. We willed him to succeed. He was rammel. I cannot imagine any of the other top three teams going for an inexperienced manager.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			This sums it up perfectly for me. Although the thought of City having Ole fills me with dread. I remember Stuart Pearce managing City. We willed him to succeed. He was rammel. I cannot imagine any of the other top three teams going for an inexperienced manager.
		
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I'm just fearful that the only reason we have held on to Phil Jones for so long is he will become Utds next manager. Feels like the United owners want a manager who feels grateful to be in that position, rather than one that will might challenge the players egos, and push them to succeed, whilst risking the likes of Pogba huffing and getting his agent to complain.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 23, 2021)

Slime said:





Click to expand...

😂😂

Come on - you at least have to find it a bit funny


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## pokerjoke (Sep 23, 2021)

I can totally see where some Utd fans are coming from.
And firstly I would agree I would like to see him on the touch line really laying it down to some of these players.
However you just can’t play your big players in all the matches,you have to play fringe players and let’s be honest they are not good enough for Utds first team,but being in all cups and starting the league well we need a massive squad.
I don’t like seeing Ole and his little clan having hide your mouth conversations all the time I would like to see him more proactive.
Going to the first team imho he’s doing a fairly decent job,yes it could be better football at times.
He’s actually got players who were not performing,performing.
Shaw,Pogba,Greenwood have all vastly improved lately.

I couldn’t care less what Klopp,Pep Tuchel maybe or maybe not be able to do with this squad and I 100% believe we will be above City and Liverpool this year in the P/L.
Klopp is a muppet
Pep is losing his grip,he sells his best striker and doesn’t replace him,and everyone could see his others were not good enough.
I believe if we had Kante we’d win the league as a world class DM is what we need.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Now Utd are out of the EFL Cup, going to be limited game time for Martial, Mata, Telles, Dalot, Lindelof, De Beek and Bailley for the remainder of the season.
		
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Don't worry, there is always the FA Cup and Europa League for them to play in


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## Orikoru (Sep 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Pep is losing his grip,he sells his best striker and doesn’t replace him,and everyone could see his others were not good enough.
		
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I reckon they'll get Kane in January. Kane is sulking a bit, he'll probably only have about 6 goals by then. City are under-performing without a striker. They'll be 5th in the league and desperate, they'll throw £135mil our way and we'll probably take it.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I reckon they'll get Kane in January. Kane is sulking a bit, he'll probably only have about 6 goals by then. City are under-performing without a striker. They'll be 5th in the league and desperate, they'll throw £135mil our way and we'll probably take it.
		
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Long as Kane and city are still sulking for end of Oct when we have spurs in league and city in the cup in the same week


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Obviously we see Klopp differently
I actually like him and his honesty at times but TAA best right back in the world I would question.

Mo Salah in the 100 club, fair play.
Just about creeping in to a 2 season wonder

Click to expand...

He's a muppet one minute, then you like him the next.

Who is the deranged one.

Back to Embarassing tony, again......


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## Tashyboy (Sep 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I can totally see where some Utd fans are coming from.
And firstly I would agree I would like to see him on the touch line really laying it down to some of these players.
However you just can’t play your big players in all the matches,you have to play fringe players and let’s be honest they are not good enough for Utds first team,but being in all cups and starting the league well we need a massive squad.
I don’t like seeing Ole and his little clan having hide your mouth conversations all the time I would like to see him more proactive.
Going to the first team imho he’s doing a fairly decent job,yes it could be better football at times.
He’s actually got players who were not performing,performing.
Shaw,Pogba,Greenwood have all vastly improved lately.

I couldn’t care less what Klopp,Pep Tuchel maybe or maybe not be able to do with this squad and I 100% believe we will be above City and Liverpool this year in the P/L.
Klopp is a muppet
*Pep is losing his grip,he sells his best striker and doesn’t replace him,and everyone could see his others were not good enough.*
I believe if we had Kante we’d win the league as a world class DM is what we need.
		
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It is one of the funniest things I have read on this site in a long time.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It is one of the funniest things I have read on this site in a long time.
		
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I think he went about the summer the wrong way tbh .

Get Kane accross the line before considering grealish

What do they need more? Plus once you lay down 100 mil on grealish it's going to make Kane's price go up


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2021)

different gravy, got the liverpool and city fans in one go 

add in the london clubs next time for a full house


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## Swango1980 (Sep 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			He's a muppet one minute, then you like him the next.

Who is the deranged one.

Back to Embarassing tony, again......
		
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Not sure of your point?

I quite like Kermit the frog, but he is still a muppet.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂

Come on - you at least have to find it a bit funny
		
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Reminds me of the African player in the wall. ( I think) who kicked the ball away when the whistle went to take the free kick on the edge of the box.
It was in the World Cup years ago.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			different gravy, got the liverpool and city fans in one go 

add in the london clubs next time for a full house 

Click to expand...

It was a peach of a post - proper Teddy moment 😂😂


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## pokerjoke (Sep 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			He's a muppet one minute, then you like him the next.

Who is the deranged one.

Back to Embarassing tony, again......
		
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Lol Pete
His honesty I like at times
Complete muppet at times
Deranged at times
Good for the P/L and perfect for Liverpool fans


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## pokerjoke (Sep 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It is one of the funniest things I have read on this site in a long time.
		
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Seriously 
Did he not sell his best striker?
Has he replaced him?
Is he looking to replace him,you bet he is.
Maybe too late to win the league


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It is one of the funniest things I have read on this site in a long time.
		
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Didn’t Aguero turn down a new contract and leave on a free 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didn’t Aguero turn down a new contract and leave on a free 🤷‍♂️
		
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went to play with his mate Lionel


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 23, 2021)

😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Sep 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Seriously
Did he not sell his best striker?
Has he replaced him?
Is he looking to replace him,you bet he is.
Maybe too late to win the league
		
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He sold Aguero. Nope he was out of contract. Did he replace him.  Google Kayky 😉


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## pokerjoke (Sep 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			He sold Aguero. Nope he was out of contract. Did he replace him.  Google Kayky 😉
		
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Sorry but buying an 18 year old to replace Aguero?As I said he hasn’t replaced him.
He could have offered Aguero another contract.
I also believe he’s already said he made a mistake selling him.
Good luck this season you will need some.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not sure of your point?

I quite like Kermit the frog, but he is still a muppet.
		
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Tonyjoke saying he liked Klopp a few days ago, then calls him a muppet a few days later - thats the point.

I liked animal, myself, probably a better tactician than Ole, though.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Sorry but buying an 18 year old to replace Aguero?As I said he hasn’t replaced him.
He could have offered Aguero another contract.
I also believe he’s already said he made a mistake selling him.
Good luck this season you will need some.
		
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I believe Aguero is still injured


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## Paperboy (Sep 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Sorry but buying an 18 year old to replace Aguero?As I said he hasn’t replaced him.
He could have offered Aguero another contract.
I also believe he’s already said he made a mistake selling him.
Good luck this season you will need some.
		
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Tony they won the league last year, with Aguero on the treatment table most of the year.
Not really a lot to replace.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 24, 2021)

Paperboy said:



			Tony they won the league last year, with Aguero on the treatment table most of the year.
Not really a lot to replace.
		
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That is very true Simon
However once again failing in the C/L
I think everyone could see he was getting injured a lot and would need replacing once they decided to let him go.
I also believe most could see Jesus was not the answer,although in his own right he’s an ok striker,although it seems this year Pep has started him wide right.

Any team that has a world class player in any position and loses him,if not replaced with the like or even better surely it will effect them.

Surely a manager of Peps experience can see that.


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## Kellfire (Sep 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			That is very true Simon
However once again failing in the C/L
I think everyone could see he was getting injured a lot and would need replacing once they decided to let him go.
I also believe most could see Jesus was not the answer,although in his own right he’s an ok striker,although it seems this year Pep has started him wide right.

Any team that has a world class player in any position and loses him,if not replaced with the like or even better surely it will effect them.

Surely a manager of Peps experience can see that.
		
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Managers don’t buy players.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 24, 2021)

Paperboy said:



			Tony they won the league last year, with Aguero on the treatment table most of the year.
Not really a lot to replace.
		
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Very true, but I'd imagine a striker would have been their number 1 target, given they seem to be so strong everywhere else. So, to get Grealish was an interesting move. He fits well to how they play, but they have an abundance of talent in those areas, I'd have thought they'd get a striker above all else. Maybe they felt they could get Grealish AND a striker, so just bit the bullet and got Grealish while they could. Although, in hindsight, if they hadn't spent £100m on Grealish, would they have been able to offer a fee for Kane that Spurs could not refuse? Man City with Kane would probably have been a much more frightening prospect that Man City with just one more excellent midfielder on their squad that they can rotate in and out of the 1st 11.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2021)

They spent £100mil on Grealish because it was an easy transfer to make - release clause etc 

I don’t understand why they went for him when they have a lot of good players for those roles

Aguero played 12 games last season and most of them were early doors - they managed to walk the league using a false 9 most of the games and that’s why they wanted Kane to play that false 9 

They will work it out with all the players they have and will challenge for the title. Certainly going to finish above UTD


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## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			That is very true Simon
However once again failing in the C/L
I think everyone could see he was getting injured a lot and would need replacing once they decided to let him go.
I also believe most could see Jesus was not the answer,although in his own right he’s an ok striker,although it seems this year Pep has started him wide right.

Any team that has a world class player in any position and loses him,if not replaced with the like or even better surely it will effect them.

Surely a manager of Peps experience can see that.
		
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Re Agueroooooooooooo. I don’t think any City fan has a bad word to say about him but unfortunately his legs had gone. Last season he played bit part roles and a couple of goals got some City fans thinking he had one last “ Hurrah” in him. It never happened, partly because of ffp his wages went off the bill to make room for a n other aka Kane. That never materialised because of Levy playing hardball. Kayky was brought in as an eventual successor to Aguero, but not now. He was supposed to arrive in Jan but that has been brought forward for obvious reasons. What I find odd is City have Liam Delap who has been banging them in for fun, but he has never really been given a chance. Is he rated? Well City turned down £15 million from Dortmund for him so he cannot be that bad. Which then leads to the question. Why do Dortmund want Delap when they have Haaland 🧐


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Managers don’t buy players.
		
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Managers identify weaknesses, go to their Director of Football, point this out. The Director of Football, if any good, will give a range of options to the manager that suit the criteria of what the manager wants, within the budget available. The Manager will decide with the DoF their wish list, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and then the DoF goes and does their stuff. That is how it should work and I expect it does work at City. Pep is big enough to have that level of say. Clubs that don't include the manager in the process are foolish in the extreme. If Pep was not asking for an Aguero replacement then I would be amazed. The amount of chances they create . Imagine a Lewandowski or Kane being fed that number of chances.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They spent £100mil on Grealish because it was an easy transfer to make - release clause etc

I don’t understand why they went for him when they have a lot of good players for those roles

Aguero played 12 games last season and most of them were early doors - they managed to walk the league using a false 9 most of the games and that’s why they wanted Kane to play that false 9

They will work it out with all the players they have and will challenge for the title. *Certainly going to finish above UTD*

Click to expand...

I doubt anyone using their brain could disagree with that. It is a more than likely possibility. Just wondering why you felt it was a point that needed made when discussing City not buying a striker. Unless their only aim is to finish above Utd and nothing else, at which point you could argue it was not a necessity to buy a striker.

Mind you, it is flattering that the priority from some supporters of other clubs is to simply finish above Utd. Personally, despite Utd easily finishing above Liverpool last season, I wasn't satisfied as I always want us to finish at the very top.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			What I find odd is City have Liam Delap who has been banging them in for fun, but he has never really been given a chance. Is he rated? Well City turned down £15 million from Dortmund for him so he cannot be that bad. Which then leads to the question. *Why do Dortmund want Delap when they have Harland* 🧐
		
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Dortmund are super smart cookies. They know Harland is off for mega money and they are lining up the next young star. If Delap doesn't work then what is £15m out of Harlands money? If he does work then they bank another £80m or so down the line. They are superb at turning young talent into big money transfers, whilst getting the benefit in the meantime. If Dortmund want him then that is a very good sign  (I suspect I am pointing out the obvious to you here but hey ho)


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## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Managers identify weaknesses, go to their Director of Football, point this out. The Director of Football, if any good, will give a range of options to the manager that suit the criteria of what the manager wants, within the budget available. The Manager will decide with the DoF their wish list, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and then the DoF goes and does their stuff. That is how it should work and I expect it does work at City. Pep is big enough to have that level of say. Clubs that don't include the manager in the process are foolish in the extreme. If Pep was not asking for an Aguero replacement then I would be amazed. The amount of chances they create . *Imagine a Lewandowski or Kane being fed that number of chances.*

Click to expand...

If I had the choice it would be lewandowski. He could teach Delap and others what Ronaldo will be showing Greenwood etc at Utd. 👍


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## Orikoru (Sep 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Re Agueroooooooooooo. I don’t think any City fan has a bad word to say about him but unfortunately his legs had gone. Last season he played bit part roles and a couple of goals got some City fans thinking he had one last “ Hurrah” in him. It never happened, partly because of ffp his wages went off the bill to make room for a n other aka Kane. That never materialised because of Levy playing hardball. Kayky was brought in as an eventual successor to Aguero, but not now. He was supposed to arrive in Jan but that has been brought forward for obvious reasons. What I find odd is City have Liam Delap who has been banging them in for fun, but he has never really been given a chance. Is he rated? Well City turned down £15 million from Dortmund for him so he cannot be that bad. Which then leads to the question. *Why do Dortmund want Delap when they have Haaland* 🧐
		
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Well they won't have Haaland after this season.

I think Pep sees Ferran Torres as a viable striker option, he starts him there half the time. He doesn't do bad there either to be fair. Not sure he's ever going to be world class in that position though.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Managers identify weaknesses, go to their Director of Football, point this out. The Director of Football, if any good, will give a range of options to the manager that suit the criteria of what the manager wants, within the budget available. The Manager will decide with the DoF their wish list, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and then the DoF goes and does their stuff. That is how it should work and I expect it does work at City. Pep is big enough to have that level of say. Clubs that don't include the manager in the process are foolish in the extreme. If Pep was not asking for an Aguero replacement then I would be amazed. The amount of chances they create . Imagine a Lewandowski or Kane being fed that number of chances.
		
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Re the bit about DOF etc. City’s business plan was built around the famous academy at Barca goin back 15-20 years and maybe longer. Very early on they brought in two guys from Barca who run the club. They are very good pals with Pep and it was always City’s aim To bring him in. However they way in which he was brought in stuck in a lot of City fans throats. That said. The business model re trophies has not been bad massively helped with Oil Money. 
When I look at how City is run now compared to the 80,s throgh to the 00,as it is a wonder we never ended up in the Vauxhall conference North


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I doubt anyone using their brain could disagree with that. It is a more than likely possibility. Just wondering why you felt it was a point that needed made when discussing City not buying a striker. Unless their only aim is to finish above Utd and nothing else, at which point you could argue it was not a necessity to buy a striker.

Mind you, it is flattering that the priority from some supporters of other clubs is to simply finish above Utd. Personally, despite Utd easily finishing above Liverpool last season, I wasn't satisfied as I always want us to finish at the very top.
		
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Because you have a Man Utd fan on the board stating that Pep has lost it and UTD will finish above City and Liverpool 🤷‍♂️

I don’t think anyone stated that the priority is to finish above UTD 🤷‍♂️ And I certainly wouldn’t use last season as ball park for us with the level of injuries we suffered. With all the squads at their right level and with the managers they currently have then imo Utd will be the clear 4th - Chelsea are being given the favourite tag at the moment with City being their nearest rival but I think it’s going to be very close with those two and Liverpool - the teams all have the experience of winning big comps , they have a manager in charge who can win the big comps and their squads imo are very close in terms of ability with each having a potential weak area. 

If City had bought Kane then they would have walked the League imo - because they didn’t that keeps it all very close


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Re the bit about DOF etc. City’s business plan was built around the famous academy at Barca goin back 15-20 years and maybe longer. Very early on they brought in two guys from Barca who run the club. They are very good pals with Pep and it was always City’s aim To bring him in. However they way in which he was brought in stuck in a lot of City fans throats. That said. The business model re trophies has not been bad massively helped with Oil Money.
When I look at how City is run now compared to the 80,s throgh to the 00,as it is a wonder we never ended up in the Vauxhall conference North
		
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Ah the days of Peter Swales...........old school stuff


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## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah the days of Peter Swales...........old school stuff
		
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Not forgetting the Messiah Franny Lee 😩


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Not forgetting the Messiah Franny Lee 😩
		
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, oh yes, I had. You have had some doozers. 

It is why so many don't begrudge current times. That will run out of course, the new generation won't have felt the pain of you guys, will take it for granted and arrogance will creep in. It is the way of things sadly, evidence shown in clubs fairly local to City


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## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



, oh yes, I had. You have had some doozers.

It is why so many don't begrudge current times. That will run out of course, the new generation won't have felt the pain of you guys, will take it for granted and arrogance will creep in. It is the way of things sadly, evidence shown in clubs fairly local to City 

Click to expand...

You know this is as pleasant a morning ave had nattering re football. Our local rivals. Mostly the ones that go. I have all the time in the world for them. They tend to say what is wrong etc. It’s not so much rose tinted glasses all the time. A majority of those who have never been however. Well am not going there.

 heard a lovely story about a bloke i knew at me first pit back in the 80,s. It was his funeral on weds and it kicked off coz there was not many there to pay respects. I said you cannot get to everyone ( weds, thurs, today are funerals of lads I knew) 
Anyway this miner nickname “Leather” was sat in a pub on his own and a guy Joins him. Whilst talking rammel over a beer Leather drops out he is a Utd fan but has never been to the Swamp aka Old Trafford. 2 days later he gets a phone call, do you fancy going. Said guy had managed to get 2 tickets for Utd v Wolves midweek. Leather was ecstatic. So off they go. Leather is in the pub trying to learn words to songs he has never heard. Had three hotdogs, bought the scarf and bobble hat. Saw Utd win a rubbish game 1 -0 with Danny welbeck I think scoring the winner. When the game finished Leather was the last out. He never wanted to leave. Me pal said he was like a 6 year old going to his first game. Only he was nearly 50. He never shut up and had tears in his eyes when leaving. He said it’s like a World Cup final. He only went the once. 
I suppose me point is football gets you like that. 
RIP LEATHER.


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## nickjdavis (Sep 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Reminds me of the African player in the wall. ( I think) who kicked the ball away when the whistle went to take the free kick on the edge of the box.
It was in the World Cup years ago.
		
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1974....Zaire v Brazil

Zaire v Brazil 1974 World Cup. Free-kick - Bing video


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Not forgetting the Messiah Franny Lee 😩
		
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Franny  Lee isn’t he Tom Daley’s hero


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			1974....Zaire v Brazil

Zaire v Brazil 1974 World Cup. Free-kick - Bing video

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Think Bruno’s is worse.
Did he get booked for it?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think Bruno’s is worse.
Did he get booked for it?
		
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Was it not a drop ball? West Ham delayed playing it, and Bruno felt it was in play (which I'm trying to figure out why it wasn't in play when ref dropped it)?


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Was it not a drop ball? West Ham delayed playing it, and Bruno felt it was in play (which I'm trying to figure out why it wasn't in play when ref dropped it)?
		
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There is no such thing anymore really. Can’t remember the last time I saw a properly contested drop ball.
The refs very rarely stop the game ,it’s the players who do it now by putting the ball out of play.
So the ref just gives them the ball back.
Only seen it on the news , why was the game stopped?
Would think this comes under ungentlemeny  conduct.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 24, 2021)

How long does the West Ham player have to play the ball before it becomes in play? There has to be a point in time after the ref drops the ball that the opposition can challenge for it otherwise a team that is 1-0 up could just stand beside a drop ball and not play it until the ref blows for full time.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			How long does the West Ham player have to play the ball before it becomes in play? There has to be a point in time after the ref drops the ball that the opposition can challenge for it otherwise a team that is 1-0 up could just stand beside a drop ball and not play it until the ref blows for full time.
		
Click to expand...

Good point .
But is this in the rules ,? it’s just crept into the game.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 24, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			There is no such thing anymore really. Can’t remember the last time I saw a properly contested drop ball.
The refs very rarely stop the game ,it’s the players who do it now by putting the ball out of play.
So the ref just gives them the ball back.
Only seen it on the news , why was the game stopped?
Would think this comes under ungentlemeny  conduct.
		
Click to expand...

Ball hit the ref.. restart with a drop ball to the team in possession at the time


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## pauljames87 (Sep 24, 2021)

https://www.sportbible.com/football/bruno-fernandes-attempted-to-equalise-from-a-drop-ball-20210923


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## DanFST (Sep 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Was it not a drop ball? West Ham delayed playing it, and Bruno felt it was in play (which I'm trying to figure out why it wasn't in play when ref dropped it)?
		
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Stay classy. 

Couldn’t be a goal anyway as 2 players need to touch the ball to score from a drop ball.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Very true, but I'd imagine a striker would have been their number 1 target, given they seem to be so strong everywhere else. So, to get Grealish was an interesting move. He fits well to how they play, but they have an abundance of talent in those areas, I'd have thought they'd get a striker above all else. Maybe they felt they could get Grealish AND a striker, so just bit the bullet and got Grealish while they could. Although, in hindsight, if they hadn't spent £100m on Grealish, would they have been able to offer a fee for Kane that Spurs could not refuse? Man City with Kane would probably have been a much more frightening prospect that Man City with just one more excellent midfielder on their squad that they can rotate in and out of the 1st 11.
		
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Or for a change, like most others they could get two players in the 30-50 million pound bracket and maybe coach them to be better.

But that isnt City's modus operandi, is it?


----------



## Swango1980 (Sep 25, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Or for a change, like most others they could get two players in the 30-50 million pound bracket and maybe coach them to be better.

But that isnt City's modus operandi, is it?
		
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Not sure I wanna talk about football today. Not only does fantastic Ole lead Utd to a 1-0 defeat to Villa at Old Trafford, Bruno somehow is arrogant enough to think he should take penalties ahead of Ronaldo. Absolute joke.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not sure I wanna talk about football today. Not only does fantastic Ole lead Utd to a 1-0 defeat to Villa at Old Trafford, Bruno somehow is arrogant enough to think he should take penalties ahead of Ronaldo. Absolute joke.
		
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Was there any arguing over who took it?

If not, there may be next time, that is something that Ole can't allow to go unsorted. Two big personalities, it needs sorting out prior rather than on the pitch at a crucial time.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 25, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Was there any arguing over who took it?

If not, there may be next time, that is something that Ole can't allow to go unsorted. Two big personalities, it needs sorting out prior rather than on the pitch at a crucial time.
		
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Not sure, initially heard Bruno took.it off Ronaldo, then heard he just kept it from Ronaldo. Will have to wait to see on Match of the Day. Can't imagine Ronaldo was happy.


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## fundy (Sep 25, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Was there any arguing over who took it?

If not, there may be next time, that is something that Ole can't allow to go unsorted. Two big personalities, it needs sorting out prior rather than on the pitch at a crucial time.
		
Click to expand...


Martinez got booked for telling Fernandes to let Ronaldo take it on all accounts


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## pokerjoke (Sep 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not sure I wanna talk about football today. Not only does fantastic Ole lead Utd to a 1-0 defeat to Villa at Old Trafford, Bruno somehow is arrogant enough to think he should take penalties ahead of Ronaldo. Absolute joke.
		
Click to expand...

Once again we flatter to deceive.
Don’t see where you get Bruno being arrogant seeing his penalty record.


----------



## Swango1980 (Sep 25, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Once again we flatter to deceive.
Don’t see where you get Bruno being arrogant seeing his penalty record.
		
Click to expand...

He is decent, but he isn't Ronaldo. He had a couple poor ones last year from what I remember, but got to retake them as keeper was a millimetre of his line. I don't think even Mark Noble would take a penalty over Ronaldo, despite his record.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

2-1 in the last min after being 1-0 down 

Will take that all day


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 25, 2021)

The Rafa train 🚆keeps rolling on. We have had a gentle fixture list so far, on the whole, but we have taken advantage. Toot toot 😄


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2021)

What a great game this is - One season wonder getting his 100 Prem goal in only 150 games ( 4th fastest ) , excellent battling from Brentford to get back in and then a sweet strike from Jones - plenty left in this and Brentford are certainly a great team to watch

Edit - fair result , great game and Brentford are going to have some fun this season


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2021)

Defensively, as a team, that was scandalous and that's not knee jerk reaction. 

Piss poor.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2021)

I’m sure someone will start talking Liverpool with you 2 soon 😳😂


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## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2021)

😳😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Defensively, as a team, that was scandalous and that's not knee jerk reaction.

Piss poor.
		
Click to expand...

Was shocking - especially for the second and third goal - 3 against 1 twice at the back post


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## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The Rafa train 🚆keeps rolling on. We have had a gentle fixture list so far, on the whole, but we have taken advantage. Toot toot 😄
		
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Good news for the blue side of Manchester and Liverpool 😁


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## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2021)

Since the 3.00pm and 5.30 games finished there have been 6 posts on the footy thread. Wheres everyone, out buying petrol. 😳


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## 4LEX (Sep 25, 2021)

Big performance from City today. After a few poor performances they went to Chelsea and ran the show. Title racing is shaping up nicely.

Utd and Ole had that result coming. Poor set up and late changes yet again.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Since the 3.00pm and 5.30 games finished there have been 6 posts on the footy thread. Wheres everyone, out buying petrol. 😳
		
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Two of the loudest sets of fans didn't win , neither can really one up the other so best to remain out of it


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## pokerjoke (Sep 25, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Since the 3.00pm and 5.30 games finished there have been 6 posts on the footy thread. Wheres everyone, out buying petrol. 😳
		
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We lost we don’t like talking when we lose 
Haven’t seen the game yet too busy watching golf.
Great result for you Tash thought it was a cert home win


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## Swango1980 (Sep 25, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Big performance from City today. After a few poor performances they went to Chelsea and ran the show. Title racing is shaping up nicely.

Utd and Ole had that result coming. Poor set up and late changes yet again.
		
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I believe Villa had several great chances as well, so Utd possibly flattered to only concede one. I simply cannot see Utd going on a large winning streak, so rely on others dropping points to stay in the hunt.

Lukaku hasn't proved himself against the big sides yet. Only saw end of game, so.not sure how Chelsea played overall.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Two of the loudest sets of fans didn't win , neither can really one up the other so best to remain out of it
		
Click to expand...

Spot on 😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2021)

4LEX said:



*Big performance from City today. After a few poor performances they went to Chelsea and ran the show.* Title racing is shaping up nicely.

Utd and Ole had that result coming. Poor set up and late changes yet again.
		
Click to expand...

In all honesty alex City really have been blowing hot and cold. The performances against Southampton and Spurs were shocking. That said am loving the title looks like being a close un. Loving even more so the “ smaller” teams are not rolling over. latest rumour is sheik mansour has said to City. Get Mbappe at all costs in January.
bloody spell check


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2021)

Blimey not sure what the “best keeper in the world” was dining for Brentford’s first goal 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2021)

Blimey he didn’t look great for the 2nd 😳😂😂😂


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2021)

Or the 3rd 😬
He’s had a mare 😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 25, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Since the 3.00pm and 5.30 games finished there have been 6 posts on the footy thread. Wheres everyone, out buying petrol. 😳
		
Click to expand...

Yes, we're all contributing to City's latest FFP effort.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2021)

Imagine your team losing with £200m+ worth of attackers failing to score, not mentioning a word about "their team"  then  coming on here slagging off another team 🤦🤷‍♂️🤣🤣🤣

Shithouse Internet hardcase's ruin forums generally.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Two of the loudest sets of fans didn't win , neither can really one up the other so best to remain out of it
		
Click to expand...

Yernited and Chelsea were the best teams 2 days ago according to those "who've played the game"🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Obviously failures when they're supported by wives/husbands and 9-5 jobs 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Sep 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yernited and Chelsea were the best teams 2 days ago according to those "who've played the game"🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Obviously failures when they're supported by wives/husbands and 9-5 jobs 🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea have definitely been considered favourites alongside City. I've not personally heard anyone call Utd favourites, at best 3rd favourites, but realistically 4th favourites in most peoples eyes. Whilst Ole is in charge, it feels like they will achieve nothing. Apart from City, awful weekend for the other title contenders. Awful weekend for Joshua. Awful weekend for Team Europe. A great weekend of sport has turned into.a nightmare.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 26, 2021)

So now you can elbow someone in the face and stay on the pitch to score the winner. 

Consistency in decisions from the referees is shocking.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 26, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			So now you can elbow someone in the face and stay on the pitch to score the winner.

Consistency in decisions from the referees is shocking.
		
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Never an intentional elbow .. booking all day long 

You only get sent off for doing it on purpose


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Imagine your team losing with £200m+ worth of attackers failing to score, not mentioning a word about "their team"  then  coming on here slagging off another team 🤦🤷‍♂️🤣🤣🤣

Shithouse Internet hardcase's ruin forums generally.
		
Click to expand...

Do we know who he actually supports as 99% of his posts are about Liverpool ? Is it Barnsley




do you think it’s landed on the moon yet 🤷‍♂️

Brilliant from Martinez 😂😂


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## Kellfire (Sep 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do we know who he actually supports as 99% of his posts are about Liverpool ? Is it Barnsley


View attachment 38665

do you think it’s landed on the moon yet 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Quick, make a hilarious one season wonder line in the hope someone picks up on it.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Imagine your team losing with £200m+ worth of attackers failing to score, not mentioning a word about "their team"  then  coming on here slagging off another team 🤦🤷‍♂️🤣🤣🤣
*
Shithouse Internet hardcase's ruin forums generally*.
		
Click to expand...

Bit rich coming from someone that didn’t post on here for a while,but was straight on when England lost the Euros final giving it the big en & changed his avatar to a Italy player🙄


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do we know who he actually supports as 99% of his posts are about Liverpool ? Is it Barnsley


View attachment 38665

do you think it’s landed on the moon yet 🤷‍♂️

Brilliant from Martinez 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Have you actually ever been to Anfield Phil?
Or do you just enjoy quoting the clubs finances & arguing with other Internet fans? 😂


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## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2021)

Anyway back to football. If Brighton win tomorrow they go top 😳😁


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyway back to football. If Brighton win tomorrow they go top 😳😁
		
Click to expand...

Actually had to check that 😂


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Since the 3.00pm and 5.30 games finished there have been 6 posts on the footy thread. Wheres everyone, out buying petrol. 😳
		
Click to expand...

Playing golf.
Great result for you. 
Saw motd and Brentford targeted TAA at the back post.
The players should have adapted to stop it.
Great tactics from them.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Playing golf.
Great result for you.
Saw motd and Brentford targeted TAA at the back post.
The players should have adapted to stop it.
Great tactics from them.
		
Click to expand...

Brentford have upset a couple of teams this year.  ave a feeling a few more will be upset. It looked a stonker on motd


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Brentford have upset a couple of teams this year.  ave a feeling a few more will be upset. It looked a stonker on motd
		
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We still missed some golden chances !
But if you concede three goals you will struggle to win games.
Taped it so will watch it later.
Fabinho didn’t look good for the first goal though, just put it out for a corner.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Playing golf.
Great result for you. 
Saw motd and Brentford targeted TAA at the back post.
The players should have adapted to stop it.
Great tactics from them.
		
Click to expand...

Haven’t seen it yet but look forward to seeing the best right back in the world targeted.
I suspect though he came through it unscathed.


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## Kellfire (Sep 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Playing golf.
Great result for you.
Saw motd and Brentford targeted TAA at the back post.
The players should have adapted to stop it.
Great tactics from them.
		
Click to expand...

That can’t be right, he’s the best right back in the world apparently. 😜


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## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do we know who he actually supports as 99% of his posts are about Liverpool ? Is it Barnsley


View attachment 38665

do you think it’s landed on the moon yet 🤷‍♂️

Brilliant from Martinez 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

As opposed to changing your name to the team you support because no-one would know otherwise.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 26, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			As opposed to changing your name to the team you support because no-one would know otherwise.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that. 👍


----------



## Slime (Sep 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yernited and Chelsea were the best teams 2 days ago according to those "who've played the game"🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Obviously failures when they're supported by wives/husbands and 9-5 jobs 🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Can't recall anyone saying United were one of the top two teams.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2021)

Slime said:



			Can't recall anyone saying United were one of the top two teams.
		
Click to expand...

Neither can I. I never said top two teams. 

*Yernited and Chelsea were the best teams 2 days ago* according to those "who've played the game"🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Haven’t seen it yet but look forward to seeing the best right back in the world targeted.
I suspect though he came through it unscathed.
		
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I'm sure you'll be able to give us the best unbiased analysis seeing as "you've played the game" 😉


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Nothing wrong with that. 👍
		
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Don't take it personal Colch, it's just another excuse  for joke to have a pop at Phil..... I can't understand why he's still got the army of haters, just ignore him as I do 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Don't take it personal Colch, it's just another excuse  for joke to have a pop at Phil..... I can't understand why he's still got the army of haters, just ignore him as I do 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...


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## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Don't take it personal Colch, it's just another excuse  for joke to have a pop at Phil..... I can't understand why he's still got the army of haters, just ignore him as I do 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Eh ignore, you just just quoted my post.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm sure you'll be able to give us the best unbiased analysis seeing as "you've played the game" 😉
		
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And you give yours because you go to games


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			And you give yours because you go to games 

Click to expand...

And support my local team 😉


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## Kellfire (Sep 26, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Eh ignore, you just just quoted my post.
		
Click to expand...

He’s saying he ignores Phil, I think.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			And support my local team 😉
		
Click to expand...

I support my local team and have been a handful of times this season.
Played for my local team for 11 seasons as well.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			He’s saying he ignores Phil, I think.
		
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If that’s the case Phil must be trying to get back in Stu’s favour by liking every post Stu posts.
Very sad 😢


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2021)

great to see Jiminez back on the scoresheet for Wolves


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## pauljames87 (Sep 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			great to see Jiminez back on the scoresheet for Wolves
		
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They said in commentary wont be a more Popular scorer in the wolves fans mind 

But tbh all football fans ...


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## pauljames87 (Sep 26, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			If that’s the case Phil must be trying to get back in Stu’s favour by liking every post Stu posts.
Very sad 😢
		
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Everyone loves a kiss arse


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## Papas1982 (Sep 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			They said in commentary wont be a more Popular scorer in the wolves fans mind

But tbh all football fans ...
		
Click to expand...

Id have preferred he hadn't ....


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Haven’t seen it yet but look forward to seeing the best right back in the world targeted.
I suspect though he came through it unscathed.
		
Click to expand...

We conceded three goals but TAA can’t be blamed for that .
One of the CBS should have spotted he had three men to mark.
Even the best in the world would struggle marking three men.
Give Brentford the credit ,tactics were spot on.!


----------



## fundy (Sep 26, 2021)

oh joy, Arteta couldnt wait to recall Xhaka yet again, what does he have to do to be dropped sigh


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			We conceded three goals but TAA can’t be blamed for that .
One of the CBS should have spotted he had three men to mark.
Even the best in the world would struggle marking three men.
Give Brentford the credit ,tactics were spot on.!
		
Click to expand...

Ah, but that doesnt suit Tony's narrative, which is to be an annoying wombat, just obsessed with Liverpool. Hardly talks about United, anymore. But hey, ho, some people think thats having a life.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 26, 2021)

Right what's happened.. Arsenal look good?


Maybe because PEA is paying through the middle 

Great goal


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## paddyc (Sep 26, 2021)

Decent start by the gooners👍once we get 4-0 up I might relax a bit.


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2021)

GTFI 

I thought we were bad 

Bit worried they may bring Kane and Son on for the 2nd half tho


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## paddyc (Sep 26, 2021)

Turned over to see Rory T off and missed another  goal FFS


----------



## Piece (Sep 26, 2021)

Have Norwich turned up in Spurs shirts?


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## Slime (Sep 26, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Decent start by the gooners👍once we get 4-0 up I might relax a bit.
		
Click to expand...

You may not have to wait too long!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 26, 2021)

How do people think Levy is feeling right now about playing hard ball over Kane? He isn't at fault for losing 3-0 but he looks half the player he was last year.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How do people think Levy is feeling right now about playing hard ball over Kane? He isn't at fault for losing 3-0 but he looks half the player he was last year.
		
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Is his heart in it?

Looks out of sorts 

Kane of last season that chance would be in


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## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How do people think Levy is feeling right now about playing hard ball over Kane? He isn't at fault for losing 3-0 but he looks half the player he was last year.
		
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Reading a few City fan pages and they are chuffed he never signed. Not sure why he never signed, But Pep has a habit of not going back for players.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Is his heart in it?

Looks out of sorts 

Kane of last season that chance would be in
		
Click to expand...

All fair. You can't be a few percentage points down in this league but it is how he looks.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Reading a few City fan pages and they are chuffed he never signed. *Not sure why he never signed, *But Pep has a habit of not going back for players.
		
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Because Spurs refused to accept any bids for him 🤷‍♂️

Kane clearly sulking about not moving and it’s now affecting his club - guess Kane doesn’t really give a monkeys about Spurs after all


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Reading a few City fan pages and they are chuffed he never signed. Not sure why he never signed, But Pep has a habit of not going back for players.
		
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He is certainly not looking £100m+ (who does?)


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2021)

North London is red 

Some excellent performances, especially first half, ESR, Saka, Partey, Tomiyasu. Good to see Aubameyang close to his best again too. Hard to believe spurs were playing in a NLD!!!


----------



## paddyc (Sep 26, 2021)

Get in there.Cracking performance  well deserved. We need that level every game now.


----------



## paddyc (Sep 26, 2021)

Is it just me who thinks Graeme Souness talks absolute $£%:?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 26, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Is it just me who thinks Graeme Souness talks absolute $£%:?
		
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No, all the man u fans will agree, even though he has been right on Pogba for 3 out of 4 years.


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## Slime (Sep 26, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No, *all the man u fans will agree*, even though he has been right on Pogba for 3 out of 4 years. 

Click to expand...

Wrong.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Is it just me who thinks Graeme Souness talks absolute $£%:?
		
Click to expand...

All pundits not just him.
Shearer for me is about the only one who says it like it is.


----------



## BiMGuy (Sep 26, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Is it just me who thinks Graeme Souness talks absolute $£%:?
		
Click to expand...

Nope he's an out of touch dinosaur. 

Alex Scott showed him up for what he is a couple of years ago.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			great to see Jiminez back on the scoresheet for Wolves
		
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Yes and what a good goal/ finish it was.
I love goals like that put the defender on his arse and slotted it , quality .


----------



## Bdill93 (Sep 27, 2021)

As you may all now be aware - Im villa home and away! (4 years and counting!)

What a day I had on saturday. Quite possibly the best away day (bar Wembley) I have ever experienced as a Villa fan. 

Villa are getting better every week, the squad depth is great and our first team look hard to beat. We have come a very long way from Jack Grealish FC in a very short space of time - and actually, I think we're better for it!

We were very over-reliant on one, very talented and able player - now we have talent everywhere, they work as a team and man its exciting times to be a Villain.

SIUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU (do one Ronny)


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## Bdill93 (Sep 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			great to see Jiminez back on the scoresheet for Wolves
		
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Even as a Villa fan I think this is great. Awesome player - you have missed him greatly!


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## Kellfire (Sep 27, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			As you may all now be aware - Im villa home and away! (4 years and counting!)

What a day I had on saturday. Quite possibly the best away day (bar Wembley) I have ever experienced as a Villa fan.

Villa are getting better every week, the squad depth is great and our first team look hard to beat. We have come a very long way from Jack Grealish FC in a very short space of time - and actually, I think we're better for it!

We were very over-reliant on one, very talented and able player - now we have talent everywhere, they work as a team and man its exciting times to be a Villain.

SIUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU (do one Ronny)
		
Click to expand...

You can’t rely on being that outplayed and opposition being so wasteful.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 27, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You can’t rely on being that outplayed and opposition being so wasteful.
		
Click to expand...

I can rely on a fantastic defensive record since 2019 season though. We're not aiming top 4 are we....  All things take time

United are supposed to be title contenders.........


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## Bdill93 (Sep 27, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I can rely on a fantastic defensive record since 2019 season though. We're not aiming top 4 are we....  All things take time

United are supposed to be title contenders......... 

Click to expand...

Also - we were not outplayed at all. Shots from miles away and a bit of extra possession mean absolutely F all in football. Literally just kept having to shoot from outsided the box because you couldnt get a look in. Outplayed my arse.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 27, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Also - we were not outplayed at all. Shots from miles away and a bit of extra possession mean absolutely F all in football. Literally just kept having to shoot from outsided the box because you couldnt get a look in. Outplayed my arse.
		
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Beating Manchester Utd is not a sign of progress. Ask Young Boys. It is common that United completely fail to break down half decent defensive teams, and get hammered on the counter or set pieces. Ole has not got a way of dealing with this, except cross his fingers and hope his players quality do it for him. Villa could just as easily turn up at Utd next week and lose 5-0. Turn up the week after and win 3-0. A sign of progress is playing well against your Evertons, Crystal Palaces, Wolves, etc. Teams that don't rely on player quality to get wins, but incorporate tactics to both try and defend well and get the best out of their attacking players.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Beating Manchester Utd is not a sign of progress. Ask Young Boys. It is common that United completely fail to break down half decent defensive teams, and get hammered on the counter or set pieces. Ole has not got a way of dealing with this, except cross his fingers and hope his players quality do it for him. Villa could just as easily turn up at Utd next week and lose 5-0. Turn up the week after and win 3-0. A sign of progress is playing well against your Evertons, Crystal Palaces, Wolves, etc. Teams that don't rely on player quality to get wins, but incorporate tactics to both try and defend well and get the best out of their attacking players.
		
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We beat Everton and ended their unbeaten run, beat newcastle easily and beat United. 

Without Jack Grealish.

Thats progress.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 27, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			We beat Everton and ended their unbeaten run, beat newcastle easily and beat United.

Without Jack Grealish.

Thats progress.
		
Click to expand...

That's all good. I'm not saying there are not good early signs for Villa, just as long as it is not based on the utd result alone.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 27, 2021)

Watched a bit of the Arsenal game and they were fab u lusssss.
Always thought that they had a great manager.

BTW McGill was always a better player than Grealish
There was only one great player with a daft haircut and he was Dutch.


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## adam6177 (Sep 27, 2021)

So in a season where refs now let players cut eachother in half and wave on play.... A shoulder barge is now a penalty.  I'm lost with it all.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			So in a season where refs now let players cut eachother in half and wave on play.... A shoulder barge is now a penalty.  I'm lost with it all.
		
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You missed the word 'gormless' before shoulder. It was a stupid challenge to make in that situation. He made no attempt to get the ball, he just stepped across the guy.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 27, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			So in a season where refs now let players cut eachother in half and wave on play.... A shoulder with barge is now a penalty.  I'm lost with it all.
		
Click to expand...

It was a penalty in my eyes, but of course the refs have previously made bizarre non decisions with much worse challenges. Saw the half time analysis (cannot bring myself to watch Palace v Brighton live), and there was quite a meaty challenge on Welbeck that went unpunished


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## adam6177 (Sep 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You missed the word 'gormless' before shoulder. It was a stupid challenge to make in that situation. He made no attempt to get the ball, he just stepped across the guy.
		
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I agree he didn't play the ball, but I'm a fan of a good old fashioned shoulder barge to put the other player out of the game... It's something I'd never like to see even as a soft free kick in the middle of the park. Let alone in the penalty box.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			I agree he didn't play the ball, but I'm a fan of a good old fashioned shoulder barge to put the other player out of the game... It's something I'd never like to see even as a soft free kick in the middle of the park. Let alone in the penalty box.
		
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If you put a player out of the game in the penalty area then it is unlikely to ever end well.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2021)

That Palace game was enjoyable as a neutral.


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## chrisd (Sep 28, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			That Palace game was enjoyable as a neutral.
		
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I was worried at the start of the season about all the changes to our team and manager but was quite impressed last night


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2021)

chrisd said:



			I was worried at the start of the season about all the changes to our team and manager but was quite impressed last night
		
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I was impressed with Palace at Anfield, probably the best team performance wise I've seen from them and that included the infamous 3-1 win under Allardyce in 2017.

Viera has them playing some really good stuff, much better than the turgid stuff Hodgson was serving up week after week.


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## chrisd (Sep 28, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Viera has them playing some really good stuff, much better than the turgid stuff Hodgson was serving up week after week.
		
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I agree Stu, I think though that Hodgson was the right man at the right time and played us in a way that kept us in the PL for a few years . 

But I'm happy now


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2021)

chrisd said:



			I agree Stu, I think though that Hodgson was the right man at the right time and played us in a way that kept us in the PL for a few years .

But I'm happy now
		
Click to expand...

Yeah you're  probably right though.


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## Swingalot (Sep 28, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			That Palace game was enjoyable as a neutral.
		
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Absolutely gutted at the end. We deserved so much more, but thats football sometimes. I'm delighted with PV in charge and some of our signings have been brilliant, added quality in the areas we needed it badly. 
Just hope we start getting the 3pts and therefore ease the pressure that comes with being in the bottom 1/3. 
Roy did a good job for us as a 'business' and long term future as a club, but at times it was painful to watch. I would have really struggled watching another season. 
The buzz is back in the ground, last night was rocking......for 94 minutes....


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			Absolutely gutted at the end. We deserved so much more, but thats football sometimes. I'm delighted with PV in charge and some of our signings have been brilliant, added quality in the areas we needed it badly.
Just hope we start getting the 3pts and therefore ease the pressure that comes with being in the bottom 1/3.
Roy did a good job for us as a 'business' and long term future as a club, but at times it was painful to watch. I would have really struggled watching another season.
The buzz is back in the ground, last night was rocking......for 94 minutes....

Click to expand...

The last 90seconds of that game was my favourite part 😉

You're right Palace where the better side and shouldve won but the chance wasted by Ayew was criminal.

Bit of luck Palace will do OK this season.


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The last 90seconds of that game was my favourite part 😉

You're right Palace where the better side and shouldve won but the chance wasted by Ayew was criminal.

Bit of luck Palace will do OK this season.
		
Click to expand...


another btts backer signing in


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			another btts backer signing in 

Click to expand...

Hahaha not guilty your honour......I was on Trossard to be booked last night instead 😁


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## Bdill93 (Sep 28, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Watched a bit of the Arsenal game and they were fab u lusssss.
Always thought that they had a great manager.

BTW McGill was always a better player than Grealish
There was only one great player with a daft haircut and he was Dutch.
		
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I can safely assure you that Super John McGinn is well loved at the villa. Vice captain now and a firm fan favourite. Love the meatball!


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 28, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			Absolutely gutted at the end. We deserved so much more, but thats football sometimes. I'm delighted with PV in charge and some of our signings have been brilliant, added quality in the areas we needed it badly.
Just hope we start getting the 3pts and therefore ease the pressure that comes with being in the bottom 1/3.
Roy did a good job for us as a 'business' and long term future as a club, but at times it was painful to watch. I would have really struggled watching another season.
The buzz is back in the ground, last night was rocking......for 94 minutes....

Click to expand...

Which was the bigger "we wuz robbed", what they did to you last night, or what you did to them last season?


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## Swingalot (Sep 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Which was the bigger "we wuz robbed", what they did to you last night, or what you did to them last season?
		
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100% what we did last season. We could not string 2 passes together in that game, no shots, no intent to attack and then to round it all off Benteke scores with a volley......jesus the odds on an air shot were short when that cross came over. Last night, Brighton had there moments and looked dangerous at times......last year we looked more dangerous driving back down the M23  

Good thing about last night was that I would say at least half of their lot had taken the easy option and left the ground, so at least I know a load of them travelled for most of the day, got treated like crap by the Met and no doubt some of our lot and then missed the goal


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## Golfmmad (Sep 28, 2021)

Let's have a shout for Brighton! I thought they played really well and apart from the Ayew miss their defence was rock solid. Some great pressing from Palace that stopped Brighton from playing.
They couldn't score against us, and what a goal at the end!!
Great result.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442934389118160896
😲😲

And Sherrif beating Real Madrid 😲😲😲


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2021)

No idea how many goals that is we have scored against Porto now over that last 3 years 😂

Jones again showing himself to be a quality player 

and Messi wakes up in PSG


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442951401299087360


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442934389118160896
😲😲

And Sherrif beating Real Madrid 😲😲😲
		
Click to expand...

Thank god for cash out on sky bet 😊


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442954116288770048
Not a bad hit 😲😲


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## 4LEX (Sep 29, 2021)

The PSG V City game was one of the best matches I've seen for years, the quality of football from both sides was seriously impressive. City were brilliant in the first half but paid the price for poor finishing and caught Donarumma at his best. The second half it was more the predictable City. PSG looked better for having Verrati back in midfield and Messi just ran the show.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 29, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The PSG V City game was one of the best matches I've seen for years, the quality of football from both sides was seriously impressive. City were brilliant in the first half but paid the price for poor finishing and caught Donarumma at his best. The second half it was more the predictable City. PSG looked better for having Verrati back in midfield and Messi just ran the show.
		
Click to expand...

Great goal by Messi, but I rarely saw him the rest of the game. City seemed to dominate possession, but either couldn't break through or wasted great chances when they did. PSG were ruthless in the few opportunities they created. It'll be interesting to see how they do for the rest of the tournament, especially against the big teams. Their big players probably get much limited time on the ball, in comparison to the French league.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 29, 2021)

Operation Jack Grealish wins nothing at Man City this season - going well! 

Great work from ex villain Gueye getting the first goal and a sublime second from Messi! 

#anyonebutcity


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## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2021)

Should never cheer and injury but I wonder if arsenal fans are happy xhaka is out for 3 months


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## 4LEX (Sep 29, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Great goal by Messi, but I rarely saw him the rest of the game. City seemed to dominate possession, but either couldn't break through or wasted great chances when they did. PSG were ruthless in the few opportunities they created. It'll be interesting to see how they do for the rest of the tournament, especially against the big teams. Their big players probably get much limited time on the ball, in comparison to the French league.
		
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That's the issue with PSG, the standard of teams they face each week is so bad compared to the big CL games, it's difficult. They go through games at 20-30% domestically. Messi just walks around finding pace, passing and making the odd run. All of the counters came through him. I think if they play like that they'll go very close. Title wrapped up by February/March and focus on the CL. 

Neymar must be a nightmare to manager. Literally plays for himself, hardly passes and shoots from stupid range.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Sep 29, 2021)

How did KDB avoid a red card for that horror tackle?


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## GreiginFife (Sep 29, 2021)

Surely this has to spell the end for Koeman at Barca. 

Said at the outset that he was never the man for the job. Cheap option that’s going to work out very expensive. Laporta should have gone with his gut at the start of his presidency and given him the heave. 

Barca have their issues financially but they deserve better than this inept muppet. 

Forza Barca.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 29, 2021)

GreiginFife said:



			Surely this has to spell the end for Koeman at Barca.

Said at the outset that he was never the man for the job. Cheap option that’s going to work out very expensive. Laporta should have gone with his gut at the start of his presidency and given him the heave.

Barca have their issues financially but they deserve better than this inept muppet.

Forza Barca.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that they can afford to fire him at the minute. Was reading that there are some specific clauses in his contract that make firing him very expensive. And also expensive if they don't offer him a one year extension to his existing contract. From memory I think that he gets paid the same whether he gets fired, sees out his existing contract or gets the one year extension. Something to do with him personally paying out £6 million in compensation to get him out of his previous contract when he joined Barca.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 29, 2021)

Shocking performance first half
How we are still in this is a miracle


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2021)

Pogba's hair is on point tonight, same can't be said for his game 😁


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## Kellfire (Sep 29, 2021)

What a set piece. Wow.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2021)

Great finish, lucky to get that free kick though.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2021)

Gloves in September?? Fanny.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm not sure that they can afford to fire him at the minute. Was reading that there are some specific clauses in his contract that make firing him very expensive. And also expensive if they don't offer him a one year extension to his existing contract. From memory I think that he gets paid the same whether he gets fired, sees out his existing contract or gets the one year extension. Something to do with him personally paying out £6 million in compensation to get him out of his previous contract when he joined Barca.
		
Click to expand...

Correct. €12m I believe is the total that he would be paid. 
But they need to take action as the with him they are out of the CL and not even at the races in the title.


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## Kellfire (Sep 29, 2021)

Lovely. Sub masterclass by Ole. Cavani, Fred and Lingard all involved in that goal.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 29, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Lovely. Sub masterclass by Ole. Cavani, Fred and Lingard all involved in that goal.
		
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Still worrying that Utd look like they will concede every time they lose possession. I know it is a make shift defence, but seems to happen regardless who plays. De Gea had a great game, and thank goodness for Ronaldo. Lingard made amends for his mistake in first game.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 29, 2021)

A good evening for rivals of Man Utd. The result will gloss over the fact that Utd again played poorly and with little to no direction from the manager. Ole once again sitting in the dugout praying that the quality of the players will overcome his complete lack of tactical ability. He's a busted flush and needs to be replaced asap. I can only assume he's got photos of the owners in compromising positions as he's clearly not up to the job.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			A good evening for rivals of Man Utd. The result will gloss over the fact that Utd again played poorly and with little to no direction from the manager. Ole once again sitting in the dugout praying that the quality of the players will overcome his complete lack of tactical ability. He's a busted flush and needs to be replaced asap. I can only assume he's got photos of the owners in compromising positions as he's clearly not up to the job.
		
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Can't disagree.


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## 4LEX (Sep 29, 2021)

From the bits of the Utd game I saw, they were lucky not to be 4 down after 60 minutes. 

Great to see Ronaldo still showing his class. No chance Ole goes before the end of the season, he'll go in the summer with a lovely pat on the back.


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## Dando (Sep 30, 2021)

Wasn’t lingard offside?


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## BiMGuy (Sep 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			Wasn’t lingard offside?

View attachment 38733

Click to expand...

Yes.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			Wasn’t lingard offside?

View attachment 38733

Click to expand...

Na. But, if you wanna play that game, penalty to Utd. Defender slid across, Lingard touched ball across, then cleaned out


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## Dando (Sep 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Na. But, if you wanna play that game, penalty to Utd. Defender slid across, Lingard touched ball across, then cleaned out 

Click to expand...

how is that not offside?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			Wasn’t lingard offside?

View attachment 38733

Click to expand...

not from that picture - doesn’t seem to be interfering with the eyeline of the keeper 🤷‍♂️


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## Slime (Sep 30, 2021)

ABUs .............................


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## Dando (Sep 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			not from that picture - doesn’t seem to be interfering with the eyeline of the keeper 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

surely he's interfering with play


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## pokerjoke (Sep 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			surely he's interfering with play
		
Click to expand...

He was
Brilliant run between 2 defenders 
Very aware of where Ronaldo was
If you watch it again he’s very clever,realising he could be in the keepers eyeline he actually lies down.
Brilliant


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## Swango1980 (Sep 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			He was
Brilliant run between 2 defenders
Very aware of where Ronaldo was
If you watch it again he’s very clever,realising he could be in the keepers eyeline he actually lies down.
Brilliant
		
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haha. I think he also shouted "Boo" just after Ronaldo hit it, shocked the keeper, and it flew in. Genius.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 30, 2021)

Cant help but wonder where United would be without Ronaldo this season. Signing of the season without a doubt so far (I know that seems obvious but Lukaku was a big move too)


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## Bdill93 (Sep 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			haha. I think he also shouted "Boo" just after Ronaldo hit it, shocked the keeper, and it flew in. Genius.
		
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Not sure how Lingard isnt getting a start! All I seem to keep reading is of him playing well! Super sub tactic? The new Ole?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Cant help but wonder where United would be without Ronaldo this season. Signing of the season without a doubt so far (I know that seems obvious but Lukaku was a big move too)
		
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For all the people laughing about us signing a 36 year old, he hasn't done too badly so far. I believe he is more effective than Harry Kane (not sure what Ronaldo cannot do that Kane can), but had we signed Kane it would probably been seen as an amazing signing. Sure, it is shorter term solution, but I can only imagine the lift he gives the other players, let alone what he provides himself.

However, I can't imagine the players are getting much direction or instruction from the management. So, if they keep setting up to get absolutely annihilated on the counter attack (by pretty much any team), and continue to drop points, I can see moral falling rapidly. It'll be interesting to see how they play against the biggest teams. They'll have to play much more defensively, and so will they be able to use that to their advantage and counter themselves?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Not sure how Lingard isnt getting a start! All I seem to keep reading is of him playing well! Super sub tactic? The new Ole?
		
Click to expand...

He could certainly play the odd game instead of Pogba, or even Bruno. At least give them a rest, but it keeps them on their toes. Sometimes it feels like certain players get too comfortable, as they know they'll play every game. I'm sure they get mental fatigue as well. I wasn't Lingard greatest fan a few years ago, but to be fair to him, he has shown a lot of drive and quality lately. It'll be interesting when Rashford gets back as well, even more selection headaches.


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## Billysboots (Sep 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			surely he's interfering with play
		
Click to expand...

How? He’s lying down, not in the goalkeeper’s eyeline, and isn’t impeding a defender. To rule that out for offside would have been farcical.


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## Billysboots (Sep 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			For all the people laughing about us signing a 36 year old, he hasn't done too badly so far. I believe he is more effective than Harry Kane (not sure what Ronaldo cannot do that Kane can), but had we signed Kane it would probably been seen as an amazing signing. Sure, it is shorter term solution, but I can only imagine the lift he gives the other players, let alone what he provides himself.

However, I can't imagine the players are getting much direction or instruction from the management. So, if they keep setting up to get absolutely annihilated on the counter attack (by pretty much any team), and continue to drop points, I can see moral falling rapidly. It'll be interesting to see how they play against the biggest teams. They'll have to play much more defensively, and so will they be able to use that to their advantage and counter themselves?
		
Click to expand...

It’s taken me a long while, but at long last I have also come to realise that, regardless of league position last season, Solskjaer is out of his depth.

Lovely guy, sure. Club legend, undoubtedly. But you only have to listen to his post match interviews, which are anything but insightful, and see the lack of cohesion on the pitch, to realise that he is not the right man for the job.

Can you imagine what Klopp, Pep or a host of other managers would be able to achieve with the squad of players United now has?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			surely he's interfering with play
		
Click to expand...

Only if the shot went along the ground and hit the player on the ground. If Lingard was stood up etc then it would be interfering



Billysboots said:



			It’s taken me a long while, but at long last I have also come to realise that, regardless of league position last season, Solskjaer is out of his depth.

Lovely guy, sure. Club legend, undoubtedly. But you only have to listen to his post match interviews, which are anything but insightful, and see the lack of cohesion on the pitch, to realise that he is not the right man for the job.

Can you imagine what Klopp, Pep or a host of other managers would be able to achieve with the squad of players United now has?
		
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He is very much out of his depth - even in the press conferences afterwards as well


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## Billysboots (Sep 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only if the shot went along the ground and hit the player on the ground. If Lingard was stood up etc then it would be interfering



He is very much out of his depth - even in the press conferences afterwards as well
		
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It’s when he speaks that I have my biggest doubts, Phil. He has never inspired me to think that he genuinely is on top of things. He’s very eloquent, but what he actually says just comes over as superficial.

The difference between what he says, and the observations of other top managers, is vast. That said, he learned from the master of saying lots without actually saying anything in Ferguson.

Time will tell but I’m now very unconvinced.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			It’s when he speaks that I have my biggest doubts, Phil. He has never inspired me to think that he genuinely is on top of things. He’s very eloquent, but what he actually says just comes over as superficial.

The difference between what he says, and the observations of other top managers, is vast. That said, he learned from the master of saying lots without actually saying anything in Ferguson.

Time will tell but I’m now very unconvinced.
		
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How often do you see Klopp or Pep on the touchline, constantly instructing players what they should be doing. Not just them, by many many managers. They can see what is working, they can see what is not working, and these managers can issue instructions to quickly fix things. They can change tactics as well depending on the opposition. Sure, it may not always work, but it often does. And the players have 100% faith in the manager and the gameplan.

Solskjaer is the only manager that I can think off that sits quietly on the bench for virtually the entire game. On the rare occasions he does come to touchline, it is to clap his hands and shout things like "come on guys". I can't imagine the players pay too much attention to him. The only positive is that he doesn't hurt their feelings by being critical, so there is less fall out within the squad. However, with a good manager, you can be as critical as you like, when the players have a deep respect for the manager. And when they get good results consistently.

Last night, some may compliment the subs he made. However, we all know that Utd have individual quality on the pitch and on the bench. So, if Utd do score, there is always a fair chance a sub will be involved. However, I'm not quite sure what his gameplan is when he made those changes, they almost seemed a bit random or contradictory. In the 75th minute he brought on Cavani (for Pogba) so a fair assumption would be to add to the attack, Yet, at the exact same time he brought Matic on for Sancho. In 89th minute he then brought Lingard on for Greenwood, but also in 89th minute brought on Fred. Sure, both Fred and Lingard involved in goal, as was Cavani, but his double subs seemed to cancel each other out generally in terms of what they bring to the game. Even if the 89th minute subs could be called inspired, the fact he waited until the 89th minute would bring that into question.

And, regarding his post match interviews, you are right. I have zero interest in listening to what he has to say. It is like he has 3 pre-prepared speeches depending on the result, one for an easy win (rare), one for a lucky win (fairly regular) and one for a poor defeat (far too often). They are all pretty much the same with a few minor differences, but none offer any real criticism of insight as to what they will work towards.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			For all the people laughing about us signing a 36 year old, he hasn't done too badly so far. I believe he is more effective than Harry Kane (not sure what Ronaldo cannot do that Kane can), but had we signed Kane it would probably been seen as an amazing signing. Sure, it is shorter term solution, but I can only imagine the lift he gives the other players, let alone what he provides himself.

However, I can't imagine the players are getting much direction or instruction from the management. So, if they keep setting up to get absolutely annihilated on the counter attack (by pretty much any team), and continue to drop points, I can see moral falling rapidly. It'll be interesting to see how they play against the biggest teams. They'll have to play much more defensively, and so will they be able to use that to their advantage and counter themselves?
		
Click to expand...

It really will. You back 4 on paper is very strong, they just dont seem to be clicking as a full unit yet, I fear for you a bit if you play Chelsea, Liverpool or City any time soon. If villa/ Young boys/ West ham can put the defenders on the back foot - a better club will have a field day.

I think the main issue comes from the lack of a true class CDM - Phillips could be the solution for you. And, as you suggest - Ole is not the man for a top 6 club.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			He could certainly play the odd game instead of Pogba, or even Bruno. At least give them a rest, but it keeps them on their toes. Sometimes it feels like certain players get too comfortable, as they know they'll play every game. I'm sure they get mental fatigue as well. I wasn't Lingard greatest fan a few years ago, but to be fair to him, he has shown a lot of drive and quality lately. It'll be interesting when Rashford gets back as well, even more selection headaches.
		
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Agree with pretty much all of what you said. Lingards been a waste of space on the wage bill at united for a couple of years - but this year something seems to have clicked in him - great to see. 

Selection headaches are a good problem to have. Just need the right man having the headache


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## pokerjoke (Sep 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Cant help but wonder where United would be without Ronaldo this season. Signing of the season without a doubt so far (I know that seems obvious but Lukaku was a big move too)
		
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I don’t think you have to wander it’s blatantly obvious,in deep poo.
Lukaku was a big move but he missed an absolute sitter last night and hasn’t been mentioned.

The trouble with us atm is we have too many that just want to get forward,on the break we are extremely vulnerable.
Last night we could and should have been buried by half time.
I won’t say a bad word about Ole as 99% of supporters won’t but I’m also starting to question what are the players instructions.
We are so vulnerable through the middle and although Telles scored a worldie him and Dalot are just not good enough replacements,Dalot last night was destroyed.
Hopefully Ole has learnt more about his team and can sort the problem.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Agree with pretty much all of what you said. Lingards been a waste of space on the wage bill at united for a couple of years - but this year something seems to have clicked in him - great to see. 

Selection headaches are a good problem to have. Just need the right man having the headache 

Click to expand...

I’ve always seen good in Lingard his work rate is phenomenal I just think when Ole came in he wasn’t doing the business.
I can’t remember the game but I remember Ole going mental at him during a game and the damage was done.
I think the loan spell to WH has done him the world of good.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			It really will. You back 4 on paper is very strong, they just dont seem to be clicking as a full unit yet, I fear for you a bit if you play Chelsea, Liverpool or City any time soon. If villa/ Young boys/ West ham can put the defenders on the back foot - a better club will have a field day.

I think the main issue comes from the lack of a true class CDM - Phillips could be the solution for you. And, as you suggest - Ole is not the man for a top 6 club.
		
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The only potential positive playing the big teams is that, under Ole, my perception is we've looked better against them than the weaker teams. Against the weaker teams, the entire team seem to want to attach, run into walls, and then get battered when the opposition counter. Against the good teams, we play much deeper knowing they could destroy us if we give them space. That allows us to hit them on the counter, and suddenly our attack thrive on running into the space and attacking quickly. So, it is a weird one. Whether Utd play Burnley or Man City, I feel either could just as easily beat us. But, against City, I can imagine we could get more clear cut chances. 

Basically, going into any game, I've no idea what to expect. The problem is, neither do the players or management. It is all very much hope for the best, hopefully Ronaldo / Bruno will do the business


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## Bdill93 (Sep 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The only potential positive playing the big teams is that, under Ole, my perception is we've looked better against them than the weaker teams. Against the weaker teams, the entire team seem to want to attach, run into walls, and then get battered when the opposition counter. Against the good teams, we play much deeper knowing they could destroy us if we give them space. That allows us to hit them on the counter, and suddenly our attack thrive on running into the space and attacking quickly. So, it is a weird one. Whether Utd play Burnley or Man City, I feel either could just as easily beat us. But, against City, I can imagine we could get more clear cut chances.

Basically, going into any game, I've no idea what to expect. The problem is, neither do the players or management. It is all very much hope for the best, hopefully Ronaldo / Bruno will do the business
		
Click to expand...

Identity is key. And you do lack a consistent approach these days. Under Fergie that just never happened.

Im no united fan, but I expect more from you. United always used to swarm you off the ball and destroy you when they had it. Home or Away. Quite like the current liverpool side maybe if I look for a modern day example. (United fans may hate that comparison )


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## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I think the main issue comes from the lack of a true class CDM - Phillips could be the solution for you. And, as you suggest - Ole is not the man for a top 6 club.
		
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This is pretty clear. Unless you play Matic, who I think most would say is a bit past it, there's no balance in the side. Trying to play Pogba in a two man midfield as it is, with someone like Fred or McTominay who are both box-to-box. There's no real structure.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2021)

Oh god TAA misses out with England again 

Now the Liverpool fans will be anti England again


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## Swango1980 (Sep 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh god TAA misses out with England again

Now the Liverpool fans will be anti England again
		
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Is he not injured?


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## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Is he not injured?
		
Click to expand...

Fantasy PL suggests he is.


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## SteveW86 (Sep 30, 2021)

Didnt he get subbed off injured in their CL match this week?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh god TAA misses out with England again

Now the Liverpool fans will be anti England again
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

What a proper blert you are.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			not from that picture - doesn’t seem to be interfering with the eyeline of the keeper 🤷‍♂️
		
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Very similar situation to the one vs Everton the other year - technically not in the goalies vision, but is in line.

Both scenarios went United's way - how mad is that?

Ooh, if only someone went back and checked the comments out for that.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Is he not injured?
		
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Doesn't normally stop the deludes calling for him to be included.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Doesn't normally stop the deludes calling for him to be included.
		
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Sometimes it's best just to stop digging yourself deeper......

I've never heard of, or read anywhere, anyone asking for injured players to be included in a international squad. 

Obviously you have so if you can point us in the direction of where so I can have a laugh.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Sometimes it's best just to stop digging yourself deeper......

I've never heard of, or read anywhere, anyone asking for injured players to be included in a international squad.

Obviously you have so if you can point us in the direction of where so I can have a laugh.
		
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Henderson euros, semi fit still injured player called for (and got) inclusion in the squad 

Maigure injured got called up


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## Stuart_C (Sep 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Henderson euros, semi fit still injured player called for (and got) inclusion in the squad

Maigure injured got called up
		
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Tournament football is completely different to a standard 2 week international break.

Iirc Henderson only missed 1 game, maguire 2or 3 though I may be wrong 

Every manager for as long as I can remember has always taken half fit players to tournaments and will continue to do so.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh god TAA misses out with England again

Now the Liverpool fans will be anti England again
		
Click to expand...

He is injured 🙄

Guess in your desperation to post the snidey comment you failed to do a fact check


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## Stuart_C (Sep 30, 2021)

Brendan Rodgers' poor european record continues....


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is injured 🙄

Guess in your desperation to post the snidey comment you failed to do a fact check
		
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Learnt from the best Phillip..

Also new level of snide editing your reply 30 mins later so that it goes unnoticed whilst you try an appear clever 

Appear being the key word there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Learnt from the best Phillip..

Also new level of snide editing your reply 30 mins later so that it goes unnoticed whilst you try an appear clever

Appear being the key word there.
		
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I sort of expected you to say “sorry looks like I got it wrong when I was looking to insult and troll Liverpool fans” but looking through it appears you just kept on digging the hole for yourself.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I sort of expected you to say “sorry looks like I got it wrong when I was looking to insult and troll Liverpool fans” but looking through it appears you just kept on digging the hole for yourself.
		
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I'll await your edit in a few hours when you have thought of something clever to say.. won't hold my breath


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Brendan Rodgers' poor european record continues....
		
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No idea what sort of formation he was playing but they looked all over the place and yet still had chances to get points from the game and were shocking 

Not been a great start for them this season looking like being firmly in that bunch scrapping behind top 4


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2021)

Rice is defo more a box to box player.. so much better than when shackled with just the DM role 

Another goal .. tap in but great movement to get there 

Assist last week 

Goals and assists this season just flowing


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2021)

Lovely cool finish from benramha for the second goal of the night 

2-0 

6 points out of 6 available 

Let's go for top of the group


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## 4LEX (Oct 1, 2021)

Declan Rice is some player. He's grown from the Euro's and is getting better and better. 

Perfect Man Utd player


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## pauljames87 (Oct 1, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Declan Rice is some player. He's grown from the Euro's and is getting better and better.

Perfect Man Utd player 

Click to expand...

I said that during the summer him and Kane would have you challenging 

However I think he will go Chelsea


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## Kellfire (Oct 1, 2021)

No one could claim Sancho has been good yet since joining United but for Southgate to pick him and then basically admitted he shouldn’t have is yet another example of how out of his depth Southgate is. Either pick him and back him or drop him and tell him to improve. Ole and Gareth - both stealing a living.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			No one could claim Sancho has been good yet since joining United but for Southgate to pick him and then basically admitted he shouldn’t have is yet another example of how out of his depth Southgate is. Either pick him and back him or drop him and tell him to improve. Ole and Gareth - both stealing a living.
		
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Or Southgate knows OGS isn't using him in the best position and slants to give him a chance?


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## Kellfire (Oct 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Or Southgate knows OGS isn't using him in the best position and slants to give him a chance?
		
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 That’s fine, just don’t say it.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 1, 2021)

Looking forward to my second visit to the new Tottenham Hotspur stadium on Sunday!

UP THE VILLA


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## 4LEX (Oct 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I said that during the summer him and Kane would have you challenging

However I think he will go Chelsea
		
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I'm not Man Utd, ask Slime on that one


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## 4LEX (Oct 1, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			No one could claim Sancho has been good yet since joining United but for Southgate to pick him and then basically admitted he shouldn’t have is yet another example of how out of his depth Southgate is. Either pick him and back him or drop him and tell him to improve. Ole and Gareth - both stealing a living.
		
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I can't believe Ole paid top money for the best right winger in the world (bar Salah) and then plays him on the left. Utd have had inverted wingers for years and it hasn't worked. You've now got a world class right winger who can hug the touch line, beat players, pass, cross and score yet he's played out of position. When Rashford is back through no other reason than player and fan power, I think Ole will go for broke. It'll be 4231 with McTom and Pogba then Rashford, Bruno and Sancho as the 3 with Ronaldo up top.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 1, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I can't believe Ole paid top money for the best right winger in the world (bar Salah) and then plays him on the left. Utd have had inverted wingers for years and it hasn't worked. You've now got a world class right winger who can hug the touch line, beat players, pass, cross and score yet he's played out of position. When Rashford is back through no other reason than player and fan power, I think Ole will go for broke. It'll be 4231 with McTom and Pogba then Rashford, Bruno and Sancho as the 3 with Ronaldo up top.
		
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Hasn't Ronaldos arrival forced this? Greenwood was through middle with sancho wide right

Shoe horning Sancho into left to make sure greenwood still gets game time


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## 4LEX (Oct 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Hasn't Ronaldos arrival forced this? Greenwood was through middle with sancho wide right

Shoe horning Sancho into left to make sure greenwood still gets game time
		
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If Ronaldo hadn't been signed, Cavani would be up top. Greenwood is a long term #9 but he's not ready to lead the line yet. He should be playing more centrally in cup games or off the bench, not on the right. Ole plays him as he's bailed him out of the mire and kept him in his job. 

Utd's biggest issue though is having Ronaldo and Pogba who don't press, you then have Bruno running around like a headless chicken trying to make up and gaps all over the middle.


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## Piece (Oct 2, 2021)

Interesting team selection by OGS for the Everton game 🤔


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 2, 2021)

Only 25 minutes in and still 0-0 but a very clear and positive difference for Everton this year compared to last is the numbers going forward on the break. Last year DCL and Richarlison were frequently left on their own with minimal midfield support. This year when a break occurs the blue shirts are flooding forward in numbers. It's great to see.

Is McTominay always a yellow card waiting to happen? Don't see him much but it's surely a matter of time in this game.


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## fundy (Oct 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Only 25 minutes in and still 0-0 but a very clear and positive difference for Everton this year compared to last is the numbers going forward on the break. Last year DCL and Richarlison were frequently left on their own with minimal midfield support. This year when a break occurs the blue shirts are flooding forward in numbers. It's great to see.

Is McTominay always a yellow card waiting to happen? Don't see him much but it's surely a matter of time in this game.
		
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McTominay one of those who gets a fraction of the yellow cards he deserves compared to the number of fouls he commits! Also known as Mason Mount syndrome


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

Why the heck didn’t Davies just shoot 🤷‍♂️ Pretty much a one on one 

Nice wrestling move by Pogba on Mina 😂😂😂

And what has happened to Sancho - 6 months ago he was superb in the Bundasliga


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## Slime (Oct 2, 2021)

Well, that was a load of old crap!
The commentator was so anti United, I actually laughed!


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## Slime (Oct 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why the heck didn’t Davies just shoot 🤷‍♂️ Pretty much a one on one

Nice wrestling move by Pogba on Mina 😂😂😂

And what has happened to Sancho - 6 months ago he was superb in the Bundasliga
		
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1. I have no idea, I'm just glad he took the wrong option.

2. Pogba was deliberately obstructed by the defender.

3. The Bundesliga is a walk in the park compared to The Premier League. It'll take a while to adjust.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why the heck didn’t Davies just shoot 🤷‍♂️ Pretty much a one on one 

Nice wrestling move by Pogba on Mina 😂😂😂

And what has happened to Sancho - 6 months ago he was superb in the Bundasliga
		
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Davis is terrified of the goal, it's missing in his game. Any other midfielder in blue takes the shot but sadly it went to him.

Overall, a good display from us. Solid in defence and midfield, a threat going forward. How good do Allen and Doucoure look?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			Well, that was a load of old crap!
The commentator was so anti United, I actually laughed!
		
Click to expand...

“anti United” commentator 😂😂😂😂

Welcome to how everyone else feels whenever Tyler is on duty for United



Slime said:



			1. I have no idea, I'm just glad he took the wrong option.

2. Pogba was deliberately obstructed by the defender.

3. The Bundesliga is a walk in the park compared to The Premier League. It'll take a while to adjust.
		
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Mina was just shielding the ball - the wrestling move was embarrassing

And Sancho is having a shocker at the moment and it’s down to imo a manager not knowing how to get the best out of him and being played in a way that doesn’t suit him

and is Fred the worst Brazilian in history- when he got out of Doucore pocket Gray just swiped him away


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Davis is terrified of the goal, it's missing in his game. Any other midfielder in blue takes the shot but sadly it went to him.

Overall, a good display from us. Solid in defence and midfield, a threat going forward. How good do Allen and Doucoure look?
		
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Allen and Doucoure were very good - certainly a step above their counter parts , Doucoure can be a beast going forward with the ball and his run for the goal was excellent - Allen is the exact type of player that UTD need , just does all that ugly needed stuff protecting the CB’s. UTD just don’t have that and it left Lindelof and Varane exposed , Varane looking like at the moment he is struggling with the pace.


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## Slime (Oct 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“anti United” commentator 😂😂😂😂

Welcome to how everyone else feels whenever Tyler is on duty for United



Mina was just shielding the ball - the wrestling move was embarrassing

And Sancho is having a shocker at the moment and it’s down to imo a manager not knowing how to get the best out of him and being played in a way that doesn’t suit him

and is Fred the worst Brazilian in history- when he got out of Doucore pocket Gray just swiped him away
		
Click to expand...

1. I don't know who the commentator was. It was an English guy on a CBS stream.

2. Mina didn't have the ball, he was just making sure Pogba couldn't!

3. He is having a shocker, I fully expect him to turn his form around, given a bit of time.

4. Oh, by a distance, but Kleberson does spring to mind!


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## Dando (Oct 2, 2021)




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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2021)

Utd 2nd in the league but how
Some of the things read on here.

Ole won’t win anything 
Ole is inexperienced 
Ole doesn’t know what he’s doing 
De gea should be sold he’s not the keeper he was
Pogba should be sold
Fred the worst Brazilian ever in PL
Lingard “just don’t rate him
Lingard “don’t know what he adds to the team “
“The manager doesn’t know how to get the best out of Sancho (5 games)
Ronaldo “too old”
Rashford “just runs down blind alleys”
Rashford “don’t rate him at all”
Rashford “so overrated”
Pep and Klopp would do brilliant with this team - how? they are all crap apparently.
Whilst some of these are true to some extent Ole must be doing the best job of all the managers considering what he’s working with.

Lol chucking in some lovely ground bait.

An example back
Remind me of what Klopp got out of AOC for 40 million .


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Utd 2nd in the league but how
Some of the things read on here.

Ole won’t win anything
Ole is inexperienced
Ole doesn’t know what he’s doing
De gea should be sold he’s not the keeper he was
Pogba should be sold
Fred the worst Brazilian ever in PL
Lingard “just don’t rate him
Lingard “don’t know what he adds to the team “
“The manager doesn’t know how to get the best out of Sancho (5 games)
Ronaldo “too old”
Rashford “just runs down blind alleys”
Rashford “don’t rate him at all”
Rashford “so overrated”
Pep and Klopp would do brilliant with this team - how? they are all crap apparently.
Whilst some of these are true to some extent Ole must be doing the best job of all the managers considering what he’s working with.

Lol chucking in some lovely ground bait.

An example back
*Remind me of what Klopp got out of AOC for 40 million* .
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

A European cup win and a league title🤷‍♂😉


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444299602774183941
Who knew🤷‍♂🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Oct 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Allen and Doucoure were very good - certainly a step above their counter parts , Doucoure can be a beast going forward with the ball and his run for the goal was excellent - Allen is the exact type of player that UTD need , just does all that ugly needed stuff protecting the CB’s. UTD just don’t have that and it left Lindelof and Varane exposed , Varane looking like at the moment he is struggling with the pace.
		
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Personally, I feel Varane has looked good. One little shaky moment midweek when he missed an interception, but much more confidence in him than other centre backs at the club. The problem seems clear. Week after week after week we push up high to try and attack. Yet, we often rush many passes, and lose the ball a lot. Then, opposition sprint forward and Utd players are all over the place. All the defenders can do is try and delay the guy in possession, and hope the midfield get back. Exactly how Everyon scored today, and Everyon should have won at the end.

Ole tried to make some changes today, but decided not to play one of our highly confident, in form players at all. Lingard deserved the chance. 

The first time I saw Ole on touchline was 3 minutes into injury time. He was pointed to one of our players, shouted something and then started laughing. Can you imagine Alex Ferguson laughing at the end of a game he wasnt winning and performance was pathetic? Can you imagine any top manager wanting to win things laughing? Ole is scared stiff of the big players in the squad. He'll certainly never rest Bruno, even if he has 10 poor games in a row.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444299602774183941
Who knew🤷‍♂🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

See he is on the ball
Must admit he’s starting to bug me a bit with his selections.
How we get countered so often with 2 DMs is mind boggling


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## Dando (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444299602774183941
Who knew🤷‍♂🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

The guy’s a genius


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444299602774183941
Who knew🤷‍♂🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it’s apparently fake 😂😂 but it’s the sort of thing he would say 



Swango1980 said:



			Personally, I feel Varane has looked good. One little shaky moment midweek when he missed an interception, but much more confidence in him than other centre backs at the club. The problem seems clear. Week after week after week we push up high to try and attack. Yet, we often rush many passes, and lose the ball a lot. Then, opposition sprint forward and Utd players are all over the place. All the defenders can do is try and delay the guy in possession, and hope the midfield get back. Exactly how Everyon scored today, and Everyon should have won at the end.

Ole tried to make some changes today, but decided not to play one of our highly confident, in form players at all. Lingard deserved the chance.

The first time I saw Ole on touchline was 3 minutes into injury time. He was pointed to one of our players, shouted something and then started laughing. Can you imagine Alex Ferguson laughing at the end of a game he wasnt winning and performance was pathetic? Can you imagine any top manager wanting to win things laughing? Ole is scared stiff of the big players in the squad. He'll certainly never rest Bruno, even if he has 10 poor games in a row.
		
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Maybe he is being exposed but he appears to be a bit slower than what he appeared to be when watching him at Madrid or France - maybe he is just being exposed too much with so little protection in front of him. Maybe Ole sits in the dugout all the time because he doesn’t know what to do to change it - it’s almost as if he thinks the quality players will just sort it out for themselves. Ronaldo is clearly fit enough to play constantly so no idea why he didn’t start - and I only watched the second half but Fernandes just looked out of it.


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## Slime (Oct 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			See he is on the ball
Must admit he’s starting to bug me a bit with his selections.
*How we get countered so often with 2 DMs is mind boggling*

Click to expand...

Because neither of the DMs are actually DMs.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			Because neither of the DMs are actually DMs.
		
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Hardly attacking ones the amount of goals between them.
Too often they go walk about and leave us exposed,it was from our corner today.
To be honest and we all know the answer the 3 Fred,Matic and McTominay are not good enough .


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## Swango1980 (Oct 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			Because neither of the DMs are actually DMs.
		
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They are useless. I'd accept McTomminay as a squad player, but still not at same level as Darren Fletcher. So many attacks break down or come to nothing as they have no ability to effectively build attacks and control the tempo of game. They chase shadows when defending. But, I probably don't blame them to much, they most likely have inadequate coaching and look worse in a poorly managed side from tactical point of view. 

Ole picks the eleven, the players left to manage the game on the whole.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			1. I don't know who the commentator was. It was an English guy on a CBS stream.

2. Mina didn't have the ball, he was just making sure Pogba couldn't!

3. He is having a shocker, I fully expect him to turn his form around, given a bit of time.

4. Oh, by a distance, but Kleberson does spring to mind!
		
Click to expand...

Not sure what it is Mina did wrong and how Pogba didn’t get booked


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444307599088816129


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## Beezerk (Oct 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Hardly attacking ones the amount of goals between them.
Too often they go walk about and leave us exposed,it was from our corner today.
To be honest and we all know the answer the 3 Fred,Matic and McTominay are not good enough .
		
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Why is De Beek on the bench evey week?  He's a quality player, much better than the ones you've listed.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 2, 2021)

Another defeat for ‘Bruce’s way’.  Genuinely can’t see us making double figures before Christmas, maybe even new year, and with Ashley not planning on doing ANYTHING before the 5th Jan arbitration I think it’ll all be too late. Ashley seems to already be creating a narrative that the PL have impacted the value of the club, and he’ll just use that to reach a settlement even if we go down.  By hook or by crook he wants his £300m.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Unfortunately it’s apparently fake 😂😂 but it’s the sort of thing he would say
		
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It's still hilarious, though Townsend copying that celebration was close to topping it, Ronaldo didn't look happy 🤣


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Why is De Beek on the bench evey week?  He's a quality player, much better than the ones you've listed.
		
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Unfortunately another forward thinking player.
And from the limited time he has played not a very good one.
Obviously Ole sees him more than us but I’ve seen nothing that convinces me otherwise.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's still hilarious, though Townsend copying that celebration was close to topping it, Ronaldo didn't look happy 🤣
		
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😂😂 stormed off it seems 😂😂

Wonder what odds it is for Ronaldo to become manager by Xmas


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂 stormed off it seems 😂😂

Wonder what odds it is for Ronaldo to become manager by Xmas
		
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I've had a 5er on Ferguson coming back


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I've had a 5er on Ferguson coming back
		
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Darren ?


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂 stormed off it seems 😂😂

Wonder what odds it is for Ronaldo to become manager by Xmas
		
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I suspect you forgot Mane storming off and not shaking Klopps hand and crying like a baby because he was taken off.
We all know Klopp likes a good cuddle.


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## fundy (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I've had a 5er on Ferguson coming back
		
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pop it in a double with Wenger


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## Dando (Oct 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Darren ?
		
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Sarah Ferguson could do better than OGS


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## fundy (Oct 2, 2021)

Turns out were not the world beaters parts of our fanbase thought we were after last week, Spurs were just that bad! Good job Brighton are still better at xG rather than actual G 

Kind of scary how reliant we are on Partey and that we didnt buy another experienced body in there this summer (and every summer sigh)

Half of our fans will blame the lack of Xhaka and the other half will covet Potter to replace Arteta , enjoy AFTV Stu


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## pendodave (Oct 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Good job Brighton are still better at xG rather than actual G 

Click to expand...

Spot on. They are competent but toothless (until they play us (whu) I suspect).
Thought L'arse might sneak it at the end.

In other news, can we have some sort of statute of limitations on comments from the north westerners. It's bloomin tedious chaps....


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I suspect you forgot Mane storming off and not shaking Klopps hand and crying like a baby because he was taken off.
We all know Klopp likes a good cuddle.
		
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As soon as you start with the whatabouttery you’ve lost your argument.

For the record Mane was moaning about not being passed to, not being subbed 👍🏻😁


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Turns out were not the world beaters parts of our fanbase thought we were after last week, Spurs were just that bad! Good job Brighton are still better at xG rather than actual G 

Kind of scary how reliant we are on Partey and that we didnt buy another experienced body in there this summer (and every summer sigh)

Half of our fans will blame the lack of Xhaka and the other half will covet Potter to replace Arteta , *enjoy AFTV Stu *

Click to expand...

I’ve given up on it Steve, it’s not the same without fam,blud, Claude and co🤷‍♂️

I might start watching that Mark goldbridge (sp) fella instead, that could have the legs to be entertaining 🤣


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## Tashyboy (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			As soon as you start with the whatabouttery you’ve lost your argument.

For the record Mane was moaning about not being passed to, not being subbed 👍🏻😁
		
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Cmon Stu this is golf monthly, why let the truth get in the way of a good story. 👍


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			As soon as you start with the whatabouttery you’ve lost your argument.

For the record Mane was moaning about not being passed to, not being subbed 👍🏻😁
		
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Even bigger baby then 😀


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## Beezerk (Oct 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Unfortunately another forward thinking player.
And from the limited time he has played not a very good one.
Obviously Ole sees him more than us but I’ve seen nothing that convinces me otherwise.
		
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Another great player ruined by Man Utd 🤣😉


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## Slime (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣
		
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Just curious, Stu, but why is there an * after Liverpool in your location tab in your ID?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			As soon as you start with the whatabouttery you’ve lost your argument.

For the record Mane was moaning about not being passed to, not being subbed 👍🏻😁
		
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Was that not when we beat UTD 4-2 and he was unhappy about not starting 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 2, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Spot on. They are competent but toothless (until they play us (whu) I suspect).
Thought L'arse might sneak it at the end.

In other news, can we have some sort of statute of limitations on comments from the north westerners. It's bloomin tedious chaps....
		
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I'll think you'll find that only 2 of todays posters are from the NW, 3 including me.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“

and is Fred the worst Brazilian in history- when he got out of Doucore pocket Gray just swiped him away
		
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I'll raise your Fred with Joelinton.


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## Billysboots (Oct 3, 2021)

If I’m allowed, as a supporter of a north west club, to make comment? 😉

United’s issue for me, as much as what they do in possession, is what they do without the ball. There is no shape at all, especially defensively.

I can think of any number of examples. The dreadful goal conceded in the Champions League tie in Turkey last season. The goal conceded yesterday and the one disallowed. There are countless more examples. 

The buck has to stop with the manager and coaching staff.


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## pendodave (Oct 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			If I’m allowed, as a supporter of a north west club, to make comment? 😉

United’s issue for me, as much as what they do in possession, is what they do without the ball. There is no shape at all, especially defensively.

I can think of any number of examples. The dreadful goal conceded in the Champions League tie in Turkey last season. The goal conceded yesterday and the one disallowed. There are countless more examples.

The buck has to stop with the manager and coaching staff.
		
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Lol. of course.
It's not thoughtful comments on how the teams are playing. It's the constant pointless back and forth (kind of) point scoring, with no-one wanting to give the other the last word. 
It's a shame, as I quite enjoy seeing how other fans view their own club's performance, and what they think of others, but it all gets lost in the mindless braying, complete lack of humour, total absence of self awareness and self deprecation of the North Western massives.


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## Bazzatron (Oct 3, 2021)

Another Watford manager bites the dust. Made a decent enough start I thought.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Another Watford manager bites the dust. Made a decent enough start I thought.
		
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I'd say it's a knee jerk reaction but it's Watford and it's how they work. The start isn't terrible so it does seem odd. It will be interesting to hear what @Piece has to say as sometimes other fans don't get the whole picture.


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## arnieboy (Oct 3, 2021)

At least Bruce won't have the tag of 'first manager sacked ' this season on his CV.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2021)

Watford have sacked a manager in the year

2008, 09 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 16
, 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 and now 21

19 managers ( including two caretakers ) in 13 years 😂😂😂😂😂


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd say it's a knee jerk reaction but it's Watford and it's how they work. The start isn't terrible so it does seem odd. It will be interesting to hear what @Piece has to say as sometimes other fans don't get the whole picture.
		
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At the end of last season it was questionable if Munoz was going to retained as he didn’t have the correct coaching badges for the Premier League. He is/was working towards them so the club retained him. Related to his lack of high level coaching qualification, it was clear last season on occasions and exposed this season, that tactically he isn’t up to it. No real flexibility, using the South African rugby policy of if Plan A doesn’t work, then try Plan A again and again. We should be getting far more out of the players we have than we currently do. The Leeds performance was so bad that it showed to the owners that things aren’t right. The Cycling GK, sorry Ben Foster, said as much in the post match. In my opinion, there’s too many side shows going on, pointing the finger at Ben’s channel and another first team player’s recently released YouTube channel (who was awful yesterday…). I understand that the club hate these things.

Where I do have sympathy and other to Watford head coaches, is that he has no or very little say in player recruitment. He given a squad and told there you go. A lot of the responsibility (not blame) goes on technical structure above Munoz; they do the recruitment and scouting. Most of it is good but the fundamental pieces they haven’t got right for years, is the whole defence and some of the midfield. It’s difficult to build a team and your philosophy without a say in the players.

Talk of Ranieri coming in. Doesn’t thrill me tbh.

P.S. Watford don’t employ managers; only Head Coaches.


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## Billysboots (Oct 3, 2021)

Piece said:



			At the end of last season it was questionable if Munoz was going to retained as he didn’t have the correct coaching badges for the Premier League. He is/was working towards them so the club retained him. Related to his lack of high level coaching qualification, it was clear last season on occasions and exposed this season, that tactically he isn’t up to it. No real flexibility, using the South African rugby policy of if Plan A doesn’t work, then try Plan A again and again. We should be getting far more out of the players we have than we currently do. The Leeds performance was so bad that it showed to the owners that things aren’t right. The Cycling GK, sorry Ben Foster, said as much in the post match. In my opinion, there’s too many side shows going on, pointing the finger at Ben’s channel and another first team player’s recently released YouTube channel (who was awful yesterday…). I understand that the club hate these things.

Where I do have sympathy and other to Watford head coaches, is that he has no or very little say in player recruitment. He given a squad and told there you go. A lot of the responsibility (not blame) goes on technical structure above Munoz; they do the recruitment and scouting. Most of it is good but the fundamental pieces they haven’t got right for years, is the whole defence and some of the midfield. It’s difficult to build a team and your philosophy without a say in the players.

Talk of Ranieri coming in. Doesn’t thrill me tbh.

P.S. Watford don’t employ managers; only Head Coaches. 

Click to expand...

I remember Gary Lineker being similarly unimpressed when Leicester went for Ranieri. I recall a comment along the lines of “Claudio Ranieri? Really?”.

He didn’t do Leicester any harm.


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I remember Gary Lineker being similarly unimpressed when Leicester went for Ranieri. I recall a comment along the lines of “Claudio Ranieri? Really?”.

He didn’t do Leicester any harm.
		
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Didn‘t pull up trees at Fulham recently, only winning 3 of 17. I’d like to see our old manager back, Rogers. But that ain’t going to happen 😂😂


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

like HGV drivers premier league managers currently, definitely a shortage


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			like HGV drivers premier league managers currently, definitely a shortage 

Click to expand...

Lots seem to panic buy, as well.


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Lots seem to panic buy, as well.

Click to expand...


guilty on both charges at ours lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2021)

Absolute theft from Leicester. Palace have dominated but Leicester have pinched 2 goals. Viera must be scratching his head.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Watford have sacked a manager in the year

2008, 09 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 16
, 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 and now 21

19 managers ( including two caretakers ) in 13 years 😂😂😂😂😂
		
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2010 must have been a highly successful year for them then.


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Absolute theft from Leicester. Palace have dominated but Leicester have pinched 2 goals. Viera must be scratching his head.
		
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crying out for Benteke in the 2nd half


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## Billysboots (Oct 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Absolute theft from Leicester. Palace have dominated but Leicester have pinched 2 goals. Viera must be scratching his head.
		
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Gifted two goals, more like! 

I feel for managers when their players make basic errors like those leading to the two goals. You can spend hours on the training ground, but it is so difficult to legislate for basic mistakes.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2021)

Well, off to the match. In all these big games, just hope its decided by great skill, goals or tactics and not the ref.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			crying out for Benteke in the 2nd half 

Click to expand...

Said no one ever 🤣🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2021)

Not a bad sub from Viera 😂

Palace getting back on level terms and it’s what they deserve , glad to see Viera doing well 

The line ups for the Liverpool City just look pure quality throughout - hopefully it’s another cracker


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2021)

Leicester really do look very fragile. Lucky to get a point despite being 2 nil up. Very odd how they haven't clicked this year, so far.


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## chrisd (Oct 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not a bad sub from Viera 😂

Palace getting back on level terms and it’s what they deserve , glad to see Viera doing well

The line ups for the Liverpool City just look pure quality throughout - hopefully it’s another cracker
		
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We're certainly looking like a threat to teams this year


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## Billysboots (Oct 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Leicester really do look very fragile. Lucky to get a point despite being 2 nil up. Very odd how they haven't clicked this year, so far.
		
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Very poor defensively. Soyuncu has gone from being an excellent replacement for Harry Maguire to being something of a liability. And Maddison has gone totally off the boil.

A very indifferent start for them.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 3, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			At least Bruce won't have the tag of 'first manager sacked ' this season on his CV.
		
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Maybe Palace have been clever and looked at the struggling clubs around/below them with managers "at risk" and thought "if we jettison our guy first then we get first pick of all the available managers that are out there".


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 3, 2021)

Fulham players wearing gloves on 2nd of October gives a whole new meaning to 'southern softies'.


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## arnieboy (Oct 3, 2021)

Happy days, three points for Spurs!


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

hows that not a foul by Milner lol


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			hows that not a foul by Milner lol
		
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Another shocker by the officials. Players try and stay on their feet and play on, the officials are not interested


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## pokerjoke (Oct 3, 2021)

Please can I have my ball back
Better final ball by City it would be over


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2021)

I think this demonstrates City's need for a striker. Absolutely battered Liverpool, but the there is rarely an easy final ball / cross on when the likes of Foden breaks down the left. I can see Liverpool fluking this 1 nil


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			hows that not a foul by Milner lol
		
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Because the ref has bottled making a big decision in a big game. Possibly would have had to have been a red card for Milner as well as the last man and not trying to play the ball.


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2021)

Good first half, City looking tasty. But if you don't stick the ball in the net....

I don't think there was enough in it for a foul on Foden, based on this year's directive.


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

cracking goal that, no surprise City regretting the 0-0 at HT


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2021)

Foden got what he deserved


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

Game on great strike from Foden


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

some effort not to send Milner off today


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2021)

Unbelievable. Do officials just not bother penalizing Liverpool? Milner had to be given a second yellow. Clear a decision you would ever see


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 3, 2021)

Piece said:



			Good first half, City looking tasty. But if you don't stick the ball in the net....

I don't think there was enough in it for a foul on Foden, based on this year's directive.
		
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It seems that the directive is weighted in the defender's favour. Forwards going down under a little bit of contact from a defender aren't getting the decisions but defenders going down under minimal contact from an attacker are still getting the soft decisions.


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## Slime (Oct 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			some effort not to send Milner off today
		
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Absolutely, it's a miracle he's still on.
He'd have been sent off at any other ground.
City are being robbed, literally.


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2021)

Milner....you lucky boy!


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

Brilliant Salah


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## Dando (Oct 3, 2021)

Goal of the season from salah?


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## Dando (Oct 3, 2021)

No doubt Pep will buy another 25 centre backs now


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2021)

Dando said:



			Goal of the season from salah?
		
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Steady....good goal, yes...


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## 2blue (Oct 3, 2021)

Yet again officials ruining a good game. How can they get things do, so wrong.


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

could be a fun last 10 mins this now, game on


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## Billysboots (Oct 3, 2021)

Cracking second half, this.


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2021)

Dando said:



			No doubt Pep will buy another 25 centre backs now
		
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And some more toys!


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## Slime (Oct 3, 2021)

Ooh, justice may be served after all.


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2021)

Quality game that 👏


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## BiMGuy (Oct 3, 2021)

Ref has had a poor game there. Milner should have been sent off twice. 

Decent game otherwise.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 3, 2021)

Great game. Would always take a poijlnt vs city but at 2-1 up with 13 mins to go you have to close it out if you want to win the league. 

Milner absolutely should have been off. Ref had 1 big decision really and bottled it.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 3, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well, off to the match. In all these big games, just hope its decided by great skill, goals or tactics and *not the ref*.
		
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Well that comment didn't age well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2021)

Well what a game - certainly some talking points

Positive - Salah- just world class and must be the best in the Prem at the moment and certainly around the best in the world , what a goal , tough to beat that , great ball for Mane finish as well

Foden - what a player he is going to be - just quality on the ball , so calm on the ball - best young player in the world ?

Was just a superb game

Negatives - poor from Milner , should have a been a second yellow and no idea why the ref didn’t give it - he nearly ruined the game the ref , poor and not good enough

We clearly missed TAA but another good work out for VVD

What a block from Rodri at the end as well

Still see those two at the top two teams in the league

In other news how great are Brentford doing 😂👏👏


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well what a game - certainly some talking points

Positive - Salah- just world class and must be the best in the Prem at the moment and certainly around the best in the world , what a goal , tough to beat that , great ball for Mane finish as well

Foden - what a player he is going to be - just quality on the ball , so calm on the ball - best young player in the world ?

Was just a superb game

Negatives - poor from Milner , should have a been a second yellow and no idea why the ref didn’t give it - he nearly ruined the game the ref , poor and not good enough

We clearly missed TAA but another good work out for VVD

What a block from Rodri at the end as well

Still see those two at the top two teams in the league

In other news how great are Brentford doing 😂👏👏
		
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Yes that block was immense. Don't think Fab could have done much more.

I'm the first to defend refs. Did a great job...except Milner's second (non) yellow.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2021)

Piece said:



			Yes that block was immense. Don't think Fab could have done much more.

I'm the first to defend refs. Did a great job...except Milner's second (non) yellow.
		
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Yeah Fabinho first touch was superb and you just have to applaud Rodri

It was a clear yellow for Milner but the ref was inconsistent with the small fouls but in the end he didn’t take away from the quality of the teams and the game itself 

I also have to ask how the hell does Foden not start each game for England - build the team around him , streets ahead of Grealish who maybe it’s looking out of his depth a little maybe


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## davemc1 (Oct 3, 2021)

Point well earned. Terrible first half. All the goals quality. Shame not to win being up twice. Milner should’ve went.  Don’t think anyone can argue with any of that

Henderson and Fabinho were woeful.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 3, 2021)

Well Liverpool might have been unlucky last season being the only team to EVER have any injuries & the only team affected by Covid.
But they’re certainly getting lucky with some of the Decisions from the officials this season.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 3, 2021)

Great game very entertaining 
Game of 2 halves
City could of been out of sight
Liverpool brilliant 2nd half and a lot of that down  to Klopp 
Salah superb
Foden superb 
Ref just woeful and bottled the big decision.
Would have liked to have seen him book Jesus as well,diving all over the place.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444727159378092037
Just brilliant - going to be tough to beat that this season


Edit - not good to hear news of fans behaviour with the city bench - reported either spitting or throwing stuff . Disgusting if true


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2021)

I havent seen any of it since I got home, but felt Milly was very lucky at the match.

He must have picked up that talent for staying on the pitch after numerous fouls at City in his earlier years.

Ive always said that Tierney is a coward of an official, and the 2nd worst ref after Kevin Friend.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 3, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ive always said that Tierney is a coward of an official, and the 2nd worst ref after Kevin Friend.
		
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That's a bold call considering the shocking state of refereeing in this country. It's even worse lower down the leagues. I've sat and had a beer with opposition fans after some of our games and neither side could believe how bad the ref was. Not biased towards one team or the other, just incompetent, with decisions given for your team that you just couldn't work out how they'd given it. 

I always think it's unfair that a ref who has had a bad game in the Prem gets demoted to ref in the Championship the following week. Why should the Championship clubs have to suffer a ref that was useless the week before?


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## Slime (Oct 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a bold call considering the shocking state of refereeing in this country. It's even worse lower down the leagues. I've sat and had a beer with opposition fans after some of our games and neither side could believe how bad the ref was. Not biased towards one team or the other, just incompetent, with decisions given for your team that you just couldn't work out how they'd given it.

I always think it's unfair that a ref who has had a bad game in the Prem gets demoted to ref in the Championship the following week. *Why should the Championship clubs have to suffer a ref that was useless the week before?*

Click to expand...

They suffer clubs that were useless the season before.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			They suffer clubs that were useless the season before. 

Click to expand...

Not all of them. At least three of them have done very well the season before and got promoted from League 1.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2021)

Red glasses on - The 72nd minute Milner foul on its own is a yellow most of the time, not all, but most. Bad / dirty / professional foul / final man  - no, just Silva done him, as he did with a few others on the day. We all know that a second yellow has to be a bit more when sending someone off, compared to what you would normally give the 1st yellow for. Some people think that the very next foul after someone is on a yellow is definitely a sending off when its not. Some players get away with 3-5 fouls before they get a yellow, but can be a tightrope if you do another 1-3, or if one is serious foul play. For me it wasnt serious foul play on it's own, he was just done by a very tricky player.

HOWEVER, for the whole of the 72 minutes Milly was on, for the overall seriousness and number of fouls he did he should have been off.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

Disappointed with the result after going  2-1 up, more so how we conceded from a throw from their LB position with a deflected shot from De Bruyne.

Poor 1st half, much better 2nd half. 

Thought the Firmino sub was the wrong sub ay that time  it shouldve been another  centre midfielder yo nullify the threat from silva/De Bruyne. 

What a goal from Salah though, he's the dog bollocks. 

Milner was lucky not to be sent off but I think it was the right decision. It wasn't a bad challenge, just a a typical tactiful foul.


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Red glasses on - The 72nd minute Milner foul on its own is a yellow most of the time, not all, but most. Bad / dirty / professional foul / final man  - no, just Silva done him, as he did with a few others on the day. We all know that a second yellow has to be a bit more when sending someone off, compared to what you would normally give the 1st yellow for. Some people think that the very next foul after someone is on a yellow id definitely a sending off when its not. Some players get away with 3-5 fouls before they get a yellow, but can be a tightrope if you do another 1-3, or if one is serious foul play. For me it wasnt serious foul play on it's own, he was just done my a very tricky player.

HOWEVER, for the whole of the 72 minutes Milly was on, for the overall seriousness and number of fouls he did he should have been off.
		
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no glasses on 

fouled Foden just outside the box in the first half not given, wouldve been lucky just to get a yellow not a red, then rightly booked, then another clear yellow foul on Silva. could easily have walked twice and celebrated hard on reaching the bench that he had been subbed not sent off


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Disappointed with the result after going  2-1 up, more so how we conceded from a throw from their LB position with a deflected shot from De Bruyne.

Poor 1st half, much better 2nd half. 

Thought the Firmino sub was the wrong sub ay that time  it shouldve been another  centre midfielder yo nullify the threat from silva/De Bruyne. 

What a goal from Salah though, he's the dog bollocks. 

Milner was lucky not to be sent off but I think it was the right decision. It wasn't a bad challenge, just a a typical tactiful foul.
		
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tactiful? sounds like someones had a good day Stu


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			tactiful? sounds like someones had a good day Stu 

Click to expand...

Had Milner booking at 3's 🤷‍♂️

Bloody predictive text.......you know what I meant 🤣🤣


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Had Milner booking at 3's 🤷‍♂️

Bloody predictive text.......you know what I meant 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

only got 5/2 here


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			only got 5/2 here 

Click to expand...

I'm on good terms with Betvictor for now 🤣🤣 I backed him the last 2 games, i shouldve  collected both times but beggars can't be choosers🤦


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

What a footballer Foden is, he's got absolutely everything. Touch, pace,strength,finishing  and cries for every decision. Best English player by a mile, well, behind Henderson.....


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## Slime (Oct 3, 2021)

Stu, Liverpool* ............................ ?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			Stu, Liverpool* ............................ ?
		
Click to expand...

What?


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			What?
		
Click to expand...

your signature


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			your signature
		
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I have signatures turned off so I dint know what mine says..... I'll have a look


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I have signatures turned off so I dint know what mine says..... I'll have a look
		
Click to expand...

its says Liverpool *


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## Slime (Oct 3, 2021)

What's the * all about, genuinely curious.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			its says Liverpool *
		
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Nice one. @Slime  I’m not sure what you’re in about fella……. Sorry if I’ve missed something 🤷‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			What's the * all about, genuinely curious.
		
Click to expand...

ah right ok, now I understand…….

I can’t tell you,  it’ll offend Someone and I can’t be arsed dealing with chief knob mod 😝


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2021)

Free the asterisk 1.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

👈🏻



Liverbirdie said:



			Free the asterisk 1.

Click to expand...

Oi, don’t you start😃


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Free the asterisk 1.

Click to expand...


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a bold call considering the shocking state of refereeing in this country. It's even worse lower down the leagues. I've sat and had a beer with opposition fans after some of our games and neither side could believe how bad the ref was. Not biased towards one team or the other, just incompetent, with decisions given for your team that you just couldn't work out how they'd given it.

I always think it's unfair that a ref who has had a bad game in the Prem gets demoted to ref in the Championship the following week. Why should the Championship clubs have to suffer a ref that was useless the week before?
		
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Correct, if theyve had a mare, should not ref for two weeks, a few of them and you go down 2 leagues.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2021)

Now that was a super Sunday, proper match.

3 brilliant goals and tbf City deserved the draw, but in a way should have been 4 great goals deciding a great match. If I had a chance to pinch one city player for us, it would be tough to pick between Foden and De Bruyne.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Now that was a super Sunday, proper match.

3 brilliant goals and tbf City deserved the draw, but in a way should have been 4 great goals deciding a great match. If I had a chance to pinch one city player for us, it would be tough to pick between Foden and De Bruyne.
		
Click to expand...

Foden easily, you’ll get more out of him. Though I’d love Fernandinho’s unpunished tactical fouling 😀


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Foden easily, you’ll get more out of him. Though I’d love Fernandinho’s unpunished tactical fouling 😀
		
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I would say it deserves it's own word - tactifoul, you nearly had it before.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2021)

Just heard peps interview, suggesting it wasn’t a sending off because it was Anfield or Old Trafford was a bit poor, i wonder if he will face any FA disciplinary action, you can’t make accusations like that about referees.


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## 4LEX (Oct 4, 2021)

Pep was spot on, it was a disgraceful decision. The sort of decisions that only get given in big games at Old Trafford and Anfield on a regular basis. We all know the refs are rubbish but those grounds have a habit of very suspect decisions. Why no VAR review as that was a clear error.

Excellent game though and the first half showed why City will struggle without a cutting edge. They've gone away to PSG and Liverpool and ran rings around both sides in the first half and scored 0 goals. The second half of both Pep has lost control and been outwitted by Poch and Klopp.

As good as Foden is, very predictable and so one footed. He missed 2 clear chances and scored his toughest one. Mo Salah is different levels this season, he's bounced back from an average season by his standards last year and is without doubt the best player in the world at the moment.


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## Billysboots (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Red glasses on - The 72nd minute Milner foul on its own is a yellow most of the time, not all, but most. Bad / dirty / professional foul / final man  - no, just Silva done him, as he did with a few others on the day. We all know that a second yellow has to be a bit more when sending someone off, compared to what you would normally give the 1st yellow for. Some people think that the very next foul after someone is on a yellow is definitely a sending off when its not. Some players get away with 3-5 fouls before they get a yellow, but can be a tightrope if you do another 1-3, or if one is serious foul play. For me it wasnt serious foul play on it's own, he was just done by a very tricky player.

HOWEVER, for the whole of the 72 minutes Milly was on, for the overall seriousness and number of fouls he did he should have been off.
		
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Oh, come on! That second foul is a yellow all day long. It’s a stunning gaff not to give it - there’s absolutely no room for debate whatsoever!


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 4, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Oh, come on! That second foul is a yellow all day long. It’s a stunning gaff not to give it - there’s absolutely no room for debate whatsoever!
		
Click to expand...

Read what I said properly. It is a 1st yellow absolutely, but some refs wouldn't give it as a second yellow, although some definitely would.

Did anyone else notice that Silva did a similar tackle on Mo, after Silva had been booked, and Mo was away down the wing if he wouldn't have been fouled? Probably not, because the telly didnt replay it 3 times, have 7-8 city players surround the ref and not see Klopp do pep's histrionics, which takes something to top Jurgen's.


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## Neilds (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Read what I said properly. It is a 1st yellow absolutely, but some refs wouldn't give it as a second yellow, although some definitely would.

Did anyone else notice that Silva did a similar tackle on Mo, after Silva had been booked, and Mo was away down the wing if he wouldn't have been fouled? Probably not, because the telly didnt replay it 3 times, have 7-8 city players surround the ref and not see Klopp do pep's histrionics, which takes something to top Jurgen's.
		
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A foul that deserves a yellow is a foul that that deserves a yellow.  Please show me in any rules book where it says anything different.  It is this sort of inconsistency that is ruining the game.

Also, nice to see Klopp taking a leaf out of Wenger's book and saying he didn't see the foul [/QUOTE]


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## Paperboy (Oct 4, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Pep was spot on, it was a disgraceful decision. The sort of decisions that only get given in big games at Old Trafford and Anfield on a regular basis. We all know the refs are rubbish but those grounds have a habit of very suspect decisions. *Why no VAR review as that was a clear error.*

Excellent game though and the first half showed why City will struggle without a cutting edge. They've gone away to PSG and Liverpool and ran rings around both sides in the first half and scored 0 goals. The second half of both Pep has lost control and been outwitted by Poch and Klopp.

As good as Foden is, very predictable and so one footed. He missed 2 clear chances and scored his toughest one. Mo Salah is different levels this season, he's bounced back from an average season by his standards last year and is without doubt the best player in the world at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

VAR isn't used for yellow cards, even if it is a second yellow that goes on to be a red. Pretty simple really.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

Neilds said:



*A foul that deserves a yellow is a foul that that deserves a yellow*.  Please show me in any rules book where it says anything different.  It is this sort of inconsistency that is ruining the game.

Also, nice to see Klopp taking a leaf out of Wenger's book and saying he didn't see the foul 

Click to expand...

I agree but for as long as I can remember watching football refs have used a degree of leeway and  common sense at times when it comes to 2nd yellows.

All teams have benefitted for it too.

If fernandinho was shown a card for every tactical foul he made he'd only be on 20 club appearances 🤣


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## chrisd (Oct 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree but for as long as I can remember watching football refs have used a degree of leeway and  common sense at times when it comes to 2nd yellows.

All teams have benefitted for it too.

If fernandinho was shown a card for every tactical foul he made he'd only be on 20 club appearances 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely Stu, fans would be up in arms if two soft yellows was a red every time. I'd say though that Milner's challenge was, if you like, "a hard yellow" and in that case he should have been off.  Ref's tend to give most players a few fouls before the first yellow so long as they are not brutal, so they are not going to give a second yellow before a few more talking to's.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Absolutely Stu, fans would be up in arms if two soft yellows was a red every time. I'd say though that Milner's challenge was, if you like, "a hard yellow" and in that case he should have been off.  Ref's tend to give most players a few fouls before the first yellow so long as they are not brutal, so they are not going to give a second yellow before a few more talking to's.
		
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There'd be no complaints had he been shown a 2nd yellow yesterday. Absolutely none. 

It's cheap and lazy to say it only happens at Anfield or Old Trafford  when it clearly doesn't.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2021)

It’s a shame that the talking point is the ref and not the actual football 

Today it should be about the breathtaking ability of Mo Salah and how the Prem has such an iconic talent or how England in Foden has the best young talent in the world or the Rodri goal line clearance etc etc


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a shame that the talking point is the ref and not the actual football

Today it should be about the breathtaking ability of Mo Salah and how the Prem has such an iconic talent or how England in Foden has the best young talent in the world or the Rodri goal line clearance etc etc
		
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Wow LiverpoolPhil in sensible post shocker👏👏

Mods can we sticky this please 😁


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## Bdill93 (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a shame that the talking point is the ref and not the actual football

Today it should be about the breathtaking ability of Mo Salah and how the Prem has such an iconic talent or how England in Foden has the best young talent in the world or the Rodri goal line clearance etc etc
		
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Ill say it so you dont have to  - Best player in world football at this present moment in time - Mo Salah.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree but for as long as I can remember watching football refs have used a degree of leeway and  common sense at times when it comes to 2nd yellows.

All teams have benefitted for it too.

If fernandinho was shown a card for every tactical foul he made he'd only be on 20 club appearances 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I appreciate we can go down a dark alley with this but do you think Fabinho is any different for you? He is your Fernandinho, doing the same job, making the same fouls. That's fine, or not really, but then it's time to stop going on about Fernandinho all the time. It ends up being like the diving debate. Indidentally, yes, Allen is our version.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 4, 2021)

Am not going down the was it or was it not a penalty, Same with the yellow because of the rose tinted glasses view I would have.

Anyway a couple of things from yesterday, Mo Salah and Foden were a different class in game full of international winners. Mo unfortunately continues to do it. He turned internationals inside out, and I have said this before if that goal was scored in game Grimsby v Rochdale it’s good but it’s not a massive game. Yesterday was massive with a befitting goal.
Foden, I have followed his and Sanchos game carefully. Sancho when he left City went onto another level, Foden looked like he was being left behind, his progress was slow and steady. Yesterday showed for me that Foden has made the right decision in staying, yet Sancho seems to have stagnated a bit at Utd. I would like some thoughts on why?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Ill say it so you dont have to  - Best player in world football at this present moment in time - Mo Salah.
		
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I don’t think there is any doubt imo 


Lord Tyrion said:



			I appreciate we can go down a dark alley with this but do you think Fabinho is any different for you? He is your Fernandinho, doing the same job, making the same fouls. That's fine, or not really, but then it's time to stop going on about Fernandinho all the time. It ends up being like the diving debate. Indidentally, yes, Allen is our version.
		
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Fabinho , Viera , Keane etc yes they all play the same role and at times will have to take a yellow card for the team 

Fernandino has always imo just taken it a little too far and it’s constantly fouling imo from him , he was at it from the first whistle and it was amazing how many times he got away with it 

Players like Rodri , Kante , Jorginho , Fabinho and Allen play that role but its not 90 mins of niggling Fouls from them


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I appreciate we can go down a dark alley with this but *do you think Fabinho is any different for you*? He is your Fernandinho, doing the same job, making the same fouls. That's fine, or not really, but then it's time to stop going on about Fernandinho all the time. It ends up being like the diving debate. Indidentally, yes, Allen is our version.
		
Click to expand...

No absolutely not. 

You know my thoughts on tactical fouling, I love it but its also upto the refs to get a grip of it. 

Fernandinho is Streets ahead of anyone. It's a compliment and not a complaint.
Jorginho is another, we can go on and on.

People who want yellow cards for every foul need to get out more. You know, rules are rules types 🙄

Fabinho is our best tactical fouler, I just wish we had a few more like him and at 2-1  yesterday used it too. It may have been a different result. 

Mourinho was hailed as the best coach in the world between 2004-2012, every single one of his teams had that snide streak in them. 

You do what you do within the laws of the game and its upto the ref to ref it as he sees fit.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am not going down the was it or was it not a penalty, Same with the yellow because of the rose tinted glasses view I would have.

Anyway a couple of things from yesterday, Mo Salah and Foden were a different class in game full of international winners. Mo unfortunately continues to do it. He turned internationals inside out, and I have said this before if that goal was scored in game Grimsby v Rochdale it’s good but it’s not a massive game. Yesterday was massive with a befitting goal.
Foden, I have followed his and Sanchos game carefully. Sancho when he left City went onto another level, Foden looked like he was being left behind, his progress was slow and steady. Yesterday showed for me that Foden has made the right decision in staying, yet Sancho seems to have stagnated a bit at Utd. I would like some thoughts on why?
		
Click to expand...

It wasn't a pen as the tackle was outside the box. If you disagree then you obviously need to go to specsavers  Tash😉

Difference between Sancho and Foden?

Pep and OGS. It's that simple really


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

Go and listen to Peter Reid and the other other England players v Argentina in 86.

Steve Mcmahon in 89 against arsenal.

There's many more players who wished they'd have taken one for the team to stop a goal.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 4, 2021)

Neilds said:



			A foul that deserves a yellow is a foul that that deserves a yellow.  Please show me in any rules book where it says anything different.  It is this sort of inconsistency that is ruining the game.

Also, nice to see Klopp taking a leaf out of Wenger's book and saying he didn't see the foul 

Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

We all know that, but in the real world that doesnt happen, does it?

A few years ago, the refs went through a stage of sending many players off and the football suffered for it as many games ended up 10 vs 11 (which are normally turgid) and often 10 vs 10 as the ref "made up for it" by sending an opponent off. The game suffered more then IMO. Its like people who say if the foul was on the halfway line it would be a foul, so should be in the box. Again, I understand this sentiment, but do I want to see 5 penalties a game and 3-4 sendings off - no way. Be careful what you wish for.

Separately, should we have gone down to 10 men yesterday - absolutely. Ok, the game would have been different, but as you want an even-handed approach, then send Silva off also.


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## Dando (Oct 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow LiverpoolPhil in sensible post shocker👏👏

Mods can we sticky this please 😁
		
Click to expand...

this day will go down in history


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Pep was spot on, it was a disgraceful decision. The sort of decisions that only get given in big games at Old Trafford and Anfield on a regular basis. We all know the refs are rubbish but those grounds have a habit of very suspect decisions. Why no VAR review as that was a clear error.

Excellent game though and the first half showed why City will struggle without a cutting edge. They've gone away to PSG and Liverpool and ran rings around both sides in the first half and scored 0 goals. The second half of both Pep has lost control and been outwitted by Poch and Klopp.

As good as Foden is, very predictable and so one footed. He missed 2 clear chances and scored his toughest one. Mo Salah is different levels this season, he's bounced back from an average season by his standards last year and is without doubt the best player in the world at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

I agree Pep was right. That’s a stonewall yellow every day.
But does the same thing go for Fernandinho at home?
He gets away with a lot.

But given his reaction to the fourth official he should have been following Milner down the tunnel.
Just think of all the youngsters watching that on TV.
No wonder we can’t attract good people into reffing.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I appreciate we can go down a dark alley with this but do you think Fabinho is any different for you? He is your Fernandinho, doing the same job, making the same fouls. That's fine, or not really, but then it's time to stop going on about Fernandinho all the time. It ends up being like the diving debate. Indidentally, yes, Allen is our version.
		
Click to expand...


can we have one please


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## Tashyboy (Oct 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It wasn't a pen as the tackle was outside the box. If you disagree then you obviously need to go to specsavers  Tash😉

Difference between Sancho and Foden?

Pep and OGS. It's that simple really
		
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If it was outside the box, according to the rules it’s a straight red as there was no attempt at playing the ball. 👍


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I appreciate we can go down a dark alley with this but do you think Fabinho is any different for you? He is your Fernandinho, doing the same job, making the same fouls. That's fine, or not really, but then it's time to stop going on about Fernandinho all the time. It ends up being like the diving debate. Indidentally, yes, Allen is our version.
		
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Yes but other managers aren’t accusing the refs of favouring Liverpool and UTD when they get those decisions themselves at home.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			can we have one please
		
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Xhaka?


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## GreiginFife (Oct 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Xhaka?
		
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You're confusing niggly tactical fouls with downright stupid fouls...


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Xhaka?
		
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trolling on a monday morning Stu, come on please


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but other managers aren’t accusing the refs of favouring Liverpool and UTD when they get those decisions themselves at home.
		
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No, but it is constantly raised on here by certain Liverpool fans, suggesting that he is repeatedly fouling and does not receive the cards that he should. My viewing of Liverpool is that Fabinho does the same role, makes those same fouls that go unpunished, so to hear the complaints about Fernandinho is pretty hollow and tedious.

Managers talk guff after games, particularly in the immediate aftermath when emotions are high. I stopped listening to postmatch interviews a while ago, they only irritate.


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## chrisd (Oct 4, 2021)

We can rely on Milivojevic for the "taking one for the team" when needed 😋

That's all part and parcel of the game


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

fundy said:



			trolling on a monday morning Stu, come on please 

Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



*No, but it is constantly raised on here by certain Liverpool fans, suggesting that he is repeatedly fouling and does not receive the cards that he should. *My viewing of Liverpool is that Fabinho does the same role, makes those same fouls that go unpunished, so to hear the complaints about Fernandinho is pretty hollow and tedious.

Managers talk guff after games, particularly in the immediate aftermath when emotions are high. I stopped listening to postmatch interviews a while ago, they only irritate.
		
Click to expand...

 I think it's accurate and he gets away with more. I don't think any other player gets away with the same amount as he does across the board. 

That's not his fault BTW. It's how it's refereed.

I'm not complaining about Fernandinho per se, it's more of a compliment.

We know refs don't referee 2 games identically. We see week after week, he'll give a free kick today and wave on tomorrow.

They're not robots and I certainly wouldn't want the to be neither but I'd like to see better refs but that's another whole debate.

Can we all just agree that Salah is the best in the world😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No, but it is constantly raised on here by certain Liverpool fans, suggesting that he is repeatedly fouling and does not receive the cards that he should. My viewing of Liverpool is that Fabinho does the same role, makes those same fouls that go unpunished, so to hear the complaints about Fernandinho is pretty hollow and tedious.

Managers talk guff after games, particularly in the immediate aftermath when emotions are high. I stopped listening to postmatch interviews a while ago, they only irritate.
		
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I don’t see Fabinho making those “unpunished” fouls at the same level as Fernandino- no player does , when Fabinho commits the clinical foul he is blown up and at times given the yellow card 

Fernandinho had the knack of committing constant niggling little fouls and getting away with it - that’s the complaint that people have with him


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## Billysboots (Oct 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Can we all just agree that Salah is the best in the world😉
		
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No. He’s not fit to lace Fred’s boots.

😇


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Can we all just agree that Salah is the best in the world😉
		
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One of, definitely one of right now


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*I don’t see Fabinho making those “unpunished” fouls at the same level as Fernandino- no player does , when Fabinho commits the clinical foul he is blown up and at times given the yellow card*

Fernandinho had the knack of committing constant niggling little fouls and getting away with it - that’s the complaint that people have with him
		
Click to expand...

That's because you are seeing it through red glasses. The rest of are not and can see that there are plenty of others, your man included, who are no different. There are a group of players doing it, same as there are a group of players diving throughout the league. It is like pointing out that Kane is a diver, he is, whilst ignoring, in my case to keep things nice, that Richarlison is as bad. No team is pure so to keep pointing fingers is pointless.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t see Fabinho making those “unpunished” fouls at the same level as Fernandino- no player does , when Fabinho commits the clinical foul he is blown up and at times given the yellow card

Fernandinho had the knack of committing constant niggling little fouls and getting away with it - that’s the complaint that people have with him
		
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I find it laughable City cryarsing for yellow cards when Fernandinho has spent his whole city career doing exactly the same.

Oh and singing "one greedy barsteward" to milner was amusing when they've been overpaying most of their signings since they won the oil lottery🤭🤭


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2021)

As its officially international break and I've no interest in England I'll sign off for the duration 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's because you are seeing it through red glasses. The rest of are not and can see that there are plenty of others, your man included, who are no different. There are a group of players doing it, same as there are a group of players diving throughout the league. It is like pointing out that Kane is a diver, he is, whilst ignoring, in my case to keep things nice, that Richarlison is as bad. No team is pure so to keep pointing fingers is pointless.
		
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I don’t have red glasses when looking at players like Rodri , Jorginho , Allen , Kante , Rice , Philips etc 

All who don’t get away with the same amount as Fernadinho has done in the past 







That was the 7th foul committed by Fernandino in that game.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's because you are seeing it through red glasses. The rest of are not and can see that there are plenty of others, your man included, who are no different. There are a group of players doing it, same as there are a group of players diving throughout the league. It is like pointing out that Kane is a diver, he is, whilst ignoring, in my case to keep things nice, that Richarlison is as bad. No team is pure so to keep pointing fingers is pointless.
		
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Yes your correct.
But the discussion was that PEP thinks it’s only Liverpool and UTD who get away with it ,and said so on TV.
When he’s got one of the best at it


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No, but it is constantly raised on here by certain Liverpool fans, suggesting that he is repeatedly fouling and does not receive the cards that he should. My viewing of Liverpool is that Fabinho does the same role, makes those same fouls that go unpunished, so to hear the complaints about Fernandinho is pretty hollow and tedious.

Managers talk guff after games, particularly in the immediate aftermath when emotions are high. I stopped listening to postmatch interviews a while ago, they only irritate.
		
Click to expand...


The key difference is that Fernandinho was getting away with 4-5 and even more, until Solskjaer highlighted it. 

fabinho normally gets booked after 1 or 2 of them Fernandinho was definitely getting away with more.

Its the subtleties of an argument that need to be appreciated, and it just wasnt Liverpool fans, BTW, but believe that if you want to.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes your correct.
But the discussion was that PEP thinks it’s only Liverpool and UTD who get away with it ,and said so on TV.
When he’s got one of the best at it
		
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That’s not what he said, he was trying to make out Ref’s are influenced by the home crowd.

To quote Pep from his Sky interview "But it's Anfield, it's Old Trafford. In our situation a City player is sent off. It's clear. It was a second yellow.”






The link is the whole interview were he also states his admiration for Lpool and their fans.


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## DanFST (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			The key difference is that Fernandinho was getting away with 4-5 and even more, until Solskjaer highlighted it.

fabinho normally gets booked after 1 or 2 of them Fernandinho was definitely getting away with more.

Its the subtleties of an argument that need to be appreciated, and it just wasnt Liverpool fans, BTW, but believe that if you want to.
		
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Last season Fernandiho (6/22) got more cards per foul than Firminho (6/29).


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 4, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Last season Fernandiho (6/22) got more cards per foul than Firminho (6/29).
		
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Again, its the subtleties.

Firminho's fouls (or do you mean fabinho?), will be in less defensive positions than people breaking into the opposition half.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t think there is any doubt imo 


Fabinho , Viera , Keane etc yes they all play the same role and at times will have to take a yellow card for the team 

Fernandino has always imo just taken it a little too far and it’s constantly fouling imo from him , he was at it from the first whistle and it was amazing how many times he got away with it 

Players like Rodri , Kante , Jorginho , Fabinho and Allen play that role but its not 90 mins of niggling Fouls from them
		
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Keane and Viera were totally different just animals on the pitch, if they were playing today they would hate it as they wouldn’t be able to play there game they would be sent off most weeks.


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## Kellfire (Oct 4, 2021)




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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 4, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Keane and Viera were totally different just animals on the pitch, if they were playing today they would hate it as they wouldn’t be able to play there game they would be sent off most weeks.
		
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They would adapt. They were both class players and class players can change. They couldn't play the same as they did then but that applies to many players through history. Others from the past were more one dimensional and would struggle but I don't think that would apply to those two, imo.


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## road2ruin (Oct 4, 2021)

OGS seems to have the full backing of the United board however the next 4 week's don't look particularly pleasant and, conceivably, the season could be over with the following fixtures...

Leicester (A)
Liverpool (H)
Spurs (A)
City (H)
Plus Atalanta home and away in the CL

I think the thing that saves him at the moment is the lack of viable alternatives however if someone were to come on the market and the games above don't produce points is he going to be close to the end?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s not what he said, he was trying to make out Ref’s are influenced by the home crowd.

To quote Pep from his Sky interview "But it's Anfield, it's Old Trafford. In our situation a City player is sent off. It's clear. It was a second yellow.”






The link is the whole interview were he also states his admiration for Lpool and their fans.
		
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So he’s talking about the Milner foul when one of his own players is the best in the league at it.
He’s right it was a yellow !
The ref is influenced by the crowd we all know that.
Maybe the crowd at City need to shout at the ref more.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am not going down the was it or was it not a penalty, Same with the yellow because of the rose tinted glasses view I would have.

Anyway a couple of things from yesterday, Mo Salah and Foden were a different class in game full of international winners. Mo unfortunately continues to do it. He turned internationals inside out, and I have said this before if that goal was scored in game Grimsby v Rochdale it’s good but it’s not a massive game. Yesterday was massive with a befitting goal.
Foden, I have followed his and Sanchos game carefully. Sancho when he left City went onto another level, Foden looked like he was being left behind, his progress was slow and steady. Yesterday showed for me that Foden has made the right decision in staying, yet Sancho seems to have stagnated a bit at Utd. *I would like some thoughts on why?*

Click to expand...

Easiest question to answer. Sancho is playing under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. So, he is playing in a team with no tactical direction, where the players pretty much have to figure things out themselves. At the least, Sancho needs to figure out the way his team mates play, which will take game time, because I doubt he'll pick much up in training. If anyone can destroy Ronaldo's final years as a player, it is Ole.

On the other hand, Foden is managed by Pep. Pep will have a very focused idea on what he wants from Foden to contribute at his best for the team. If Foden makes the worng decision, even something ridiculously minor, no doubt Pep would pick this up and give him detailed analysis of it after, the disadvantages it caused, and the benefits he'd have if he did something different. Ole wouldn't this, given that he cannot even spot the obvious problems, such as leaving a gaping hole in midfield for the opposition to counter in. Although, to be fair to Ole, from his permanent seated position he might not be able to see over the wall, and therefore not getting a good view of the pitch.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			So he’s talking about the Milner foul when one of his own players is the best in the league at it.
He’s right it was a yellow !
The ref is influenced by the crowd we all know that.
Maybe the crowd at City need to shout at the ref more.
		
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Whether other players do it or not is irrelevant, Referees should not be influenced by a home crowd, any home crowd!

If we are going by the old addage of “people in glass houses” then no manager ever will be able to point out when Refs mess up.

Bringing in other players is simply a dead cat, especially when Pep wasn’t complaining about what Milner did, he never said anything about the players.


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



*Can we all just agree that Salah is the best in the world*😉
		
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Nope.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2021)

Slime said:



			Nope.
		
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Interesting to see who you think right now is playing better than Salah ?


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting to see who you think right now is playing better than Salah ?
		
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I'd take Haaland over Salah.


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Oct 4, 2021)

Last night I watched a heartbreaking abomination___

Tom Brady playing _against _the New England Patriots.  It was a sacrilege against God.   

I will unlikely ever watch another football match of any description....American, Association, Union, League....anything.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 4, 2021)

I find this quite incredible....




If those had gone for him he would've been considered a success. I'm sure that some of them were well offside but some would have only have been inches.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'd take Haaland over Salah.
		
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Haaland certainly has age on his side and has done well at Dortmund and it’s going to interesting to see when he makes the next step up and to a big club and starts to make the difference with added pressure


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## BiMGuy (Oct 4, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I find this quite incredible....

View attachment 38801


If those had gone for him he would've been considered a success. I'm sure that some of them were well offside but some would have only have been inches.
		
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He was born offside.


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## Dando (Oct 4, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			OGS seems to have the full backing of the United board however the next 4 week's don't look particularly pleasant and, conceivably, the season could be over with the following fixtures...

Leicester (A)
Liverpool (H)
Spurs (A)
City (H)
Plus Atalanta home and away in the CL

I think the thing that saves him at the moment is the lack of viable alternatives however if someone were to come on the market and the games above don't produce points is he going to be close to the end?
		
Click to expand...

Big Sam’s a free agent isn’t he?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 4, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			OGS seems to have the full backing of the United board however the next 4 week's don't look particularly pleasant and, conceivably, the season could be over with the following fixtures...

Leicester (A)
Liverpool (H)
Spurs (A)
City (H)
Plus Atalanta home and away in the CL

I think the thing that saves him at the moment is the lack of viable alternatives however if someone were to come on the market and the games above don't produce points is he going to be close to the end?
		
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Conte is available and would be a huge improvement- the issue is he doesn’t appear to stay long at clubs


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Haaland certainly has age on his side and has done well at Dortmund and it’s going to interesting to see when he makes the next step up and to a big club and starts to make the difference with added pressure
		
Click to expand...


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Haaland certainly has age on his side and has done well at Dortmund and it’s going to interesting to see when he makes the next step up and to a big club and starts to make the difference with added pressure
		
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Aren’t Dortmund a “big club”?


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## Orikoru (Oct 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I find this quite incredible....

View attachment 38801


If those had gone for him he would've been considered a success. I'm sure that some of them were well offside but some would have only have been inches.
		
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To me this reads like a damning criticism that he can't manage to stay onside.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To me this reads like a damning criticism that he can't manage to stay onside.
		
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It really depends on how many of them were well offside and how many of them were finger nail just in front of defenders little toe offside after 5 minutes of drawing lines on the screen. We know that the frames per second aren't high enough for it to be totally accurate so it depends on what frame they pick. It could be that he is making the perfect run but the technology wasn't accurate enough to prove it. 

Or the above could all be nonsense and he's a Muppet that needs to learn to stay onside.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 5, 2021)

Agree with Colchester. He joined Chelsea at a time the officials were royally messing up in the use of VAR, trying to use it to the nth degree of detail when it was not accurate enough to do so. Maybe he is also just a player who's style is to break offside traps and run through on goal, but needs to get used to his team mates, his team mates to him, so they can time the passes and runs properly. So, will give him a little leeway on that note.

However, I always get the impression that his finishing is pretty poor, especially for a forward


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## Orikoru (Oct 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			It really depends on how many of them were well offside and how many of them were finger nail just in front of defenders little toe offside after 5 minutes of drawing lines on the screen. We know that the frames per second aren't high enough for it to be totally accurate so it depends on what frame they pick. It could be that he is making the perfect run but the technology wasn't accurate enough to prove it.

Or the above could all be nonsense and he's a Muppet that needs to learn to stay onside.
		
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I suppose it could be seen either way. But I guess I thought 5 of them would be unlucky or maybe even 10.. but 16 of them means he should probably have adjusted the timing of his runs by now. What's that adage about doing the same thing and expecting a different result?


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## Piece (Oct 5, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Last night I watched a heartbreaking abomination___

Tom Brady playing _against _the New England Patriots.  It was a sacrilege against God.  

I will unlikely ever watch another football match of any description....American, Association, Union, League....anything.
		
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Did anyone check the ball pressures?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Last night I watched a heartbreaking abomination___

Tom Brady playing _against _the New England Patriots.  It was a sacrilege against God.  

I will unlikely ever watch another football match of any description....American, Association, Union, League....anything.
		
Click to expand...

https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/2021-nfl-season.108648/

Happy to help 👍


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 5, 2021)

Piece said:



			Did anyone check the ball pressures?
		
Click to expand...

Who cares it’s not football, it’s American football.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 5, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			To me this reads like a damning criticism that he can't manage to stay onside.
		
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You could be talking about Darren Huckerby there. I don’t think that anyone actually explained to him what offside was. If they did then he is thick.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2021)

Talk of Sterling to Barca.
Why would anyone want to go to Barca? 🤷‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Oct 5, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Talk of Sterling to Barca.
Why would anyone want to go to Barca? 🤷‍♂️
		
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Al set up a crowdfund to buy his ticket 😁👍


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## Beezerk (Oct 5, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Talk of Sterling to Barca.
Why would anyone want to go to Barca? 🤷‍♂️
		
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Why would anyone want Sterling 😆


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## Piece (Oct 6, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Why would anyone want Sterling 😆
		
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The only Sterling Barca want/need is the £££££ variety


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## Tashyboy (Oct 6, 2021)

Piece said:



			The only Sterling Barca want/need is the £££££ variety 

Click to expand...

On a positive someone is making a few sterling 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58811651


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## Cherry13 (Oct 6, 2021)

A lot of excitement in the NE about the takeover being back on.  Saudis have agreed that BEin can now operate in KSA and apparantly that will remove the need for arbitration.  
Can’t say I’m thrilled at the prospect of being owned by that regime, but suppose the small positive is it gets rid of Ashley.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 6, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			A lot of excitement in the NE about the takeover being back on.  Saudis have agreed that BEin can now operate in KSA and apparantly that will remove the need for arbitration. 
Can’t say I’m thrilled at the prospect of being owned by that regime, but suppose the small positive is it gets rid of Ashley.
		
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Looks like could be imminent and has escalated very quickly. George Caulkin saying I to last few hours of Ashley ownership.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Looks like could be imminent and has escalated very quickly. George Caulkin saying I to last few hours of Ashley ownership.
		
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Wow, there will be a meltdown if that happens. Pubs had better stock up with extra beer 🍻😄


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## Dando (Oct 6, 2021)

Watching the nations league between Italy and Spain.

Jorginho and biscuits are having a dive off and seeing who can roll the furthest


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## Cherry13 (Oct 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Wow, there will be a meltdown if that happens. Pubs had better stock up with extra beer 🍻😄
		
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It’ll certainly be well celebrated, regardless of any doubts over the new owners.


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## 4LEX (Oct 6, 2021)

Having spent time in Durham, always had time for Newcastle. They deserve this and will become a superclub within 5 years. You won't get thousands of empty seats at St James in the CL


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 6, 2021)

Wonder who’ll be the first to start whinging about Oil money if the takeover goes through 🤔😂


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 6, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wonder who’ll be the first to start whinging about Oil money if the takeover goes through 🤔😂
		
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It'll either be Man City or Liverpool fans.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			It'll either be Man City or Liverpool fans. 

Click to expand...

😂😂😂


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## Cherry13 (Oct 6, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Having spent time in Durham, always had time for Newcastle. They deserve this and will become a superclub within 5 years. You won't get thousands of empty seats at St James in the CL 

Click to expand...

Season ticket site has apparantly crashed already haha.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			A lot of excitement in the NE about the takeover being back on.  Saudis have agreed that BEin can now operate in KSA and apparantly that will remove the need for arbitration. 
Can’t say I’m thrilled at the prospect of being owned by that regime, but suppose the small positive is it gets rid of Ashley.
		
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Listening to the fans calling in on the way home and that was the general feeling - they don’t want to be part of the sport washing and be owned by them but they are desperate for Ashley to go - with financial restrictions in place are they able to do what Chelsea then City did ?


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## Cherry13 (Oct 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Listening to the fans calling in on the way home and that was the general feeling - they don’t want to be part of the sport washing and be owned by them but they are desperate for Ashley to go - with financial restrictions in place are they able to do what Chelsea then City did ?
		
Click to expand...

They certainly won’t be able to do what Chelsea and Man City did, but the one positive of Ashley is he has left us in a reasonably healthy position to spend. Some stuff I seen last year intimated that we could reasonably spend ~£250m without breaching ffp. That’s not including the fact we will be much more marketable to firms in the Middle East. (Expect Saudi airline/tourism deal pretty much straightaway)
Increased season tickets, spending on match day etc we should be in a pretty healthy position. 
I don’t think they’ll go out and spend a huge amount on players though, think the initial outlay will be on training ground and stadium


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			They certainly won’t be able to do what Chelsea and Man City did, but the one positive of Ashley is he has left us in a reasonably healthy position to spend. Some stuff I seen last year intimated that we could reasonably spend ~£250m without breaching ffp. That’s not including the fact we will be much more marketable to firms in the Middle East. (Expect Saudi airline/tourism deal pretty much straightaway)
Increased season tickets, spending on match day etc we should be in a pretty healthy position. 
I don’t think they’ll go out and spend a huge amount on players though, think the initial outlay will be on training ground and stadium
		
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What do you think needs doing at the stadium? Nothing stands out as being in obvious need of replacement or improvement but I don't go that often to judge that well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			They certainly won’t be able to do what Chelsea and Man City did, but the one positive of Ashley is he has left us in a reasonably healthy position to spend. Some stuff I seen last year intimated that we could reasonably spend ~£250m without breaching ffp. That’s not including the fact we will be much more marketable to firms in the Middle East. (Expect Saudi airline/tourism deal pretty much straightaway)
Increased season tickets, spending on match day etc we should be in a pretty healthy position.
I don’t think they’ll go out and spend a huge amount on players though, think the initial outlay will be on training ground and stadium
		
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Would certainly be interesting to see what manager they can attract and also which players.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What do you think needs doing at the stadium? Nothing stands out as being in obvious need of replacement or improvement but I don't go that often to judge that well.
		
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The sports direct advertising will be a good start... haha. But I think in general it just needs a refresh, in some places just a good lick of paint would do.  But stuff like a revamp of the kiosks would be a good start, then the corporate areas are years behind what you‘d expect/get elsewhere. 
As for manager, yesterdays favorites were wilder and Howe as next manager, today it’s zidane and conte haha.  I’d hope for Howe, and then a focus on the structure round him.  CEO, DoF and an overhaul of the academy and scouting set up.


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## Kellfire (Oct 6, 2021)

If the Saudi’s run your team, it’s time to walk away. It’s like having North Korea or Israel in charge.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 6, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			If the Saudi’s run your team, it’s time to walk away. It’s like having North Korea or Israel in charge.
		
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we are certainly going to be in for a lot of comments like this, and probably rightly so. Ideally I wouldnt have PIF, Stavely or the Reuben (parasite) brothers involved but unfortunately it seems inevitable they will be.  As for walking away, i think you know that for many many fans that just isn’t going to happen. 
I can also guarantee our typical response is going to be well what about... golf, boxing, f1 etc.  But even more relevant, what about your own club taking money for the last 12 years from the saudis in the form of sponsorship?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 6, 2021)

Great news for Newcastle, hope their fans enjoy the ride.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			we are certainly going to be in for a lot of comments like this, and probably rightly so. Ideally I wouldnt have PIF, Stavely or the Reuben (parasite) brothers involved but unfortunately it seems inevitable they will be.  As for walking away, i think you know that for many many fans that just isn’t going to happen.
I can also guarantee our typical response is going to be well what about... golf, boxing, f1 etc.  But even more relevant, what about your own club taking money for the last 12 years from the saudis in the form of sponsorship?
		
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The Saudis were always going to get into football - as you say the sport washing has been going on for a while now with many other sports happy to turn a blind eye to the issues whilst bringing in the money.

I can see the club certainly getting themselves back amongst the likes of Everton , Villa , Leicester etc - will clearly depend on what sort of money can be spent by the club


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## Stuart_C (Oct 6, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			If the Saudi’s run your team, it’s time to walk away. It’s like having North Korea or Israel in charge.
		
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Are you suggesting fans should have morals about a  sport where morals left the game many moons ago?? 

I admire your outlook and morals but I doubt all clubs at the highest level have been squeaky clean in the morals dept.

Imagine we all stuck to our morals and walked away from football, there would be no game.

Non of the above is  excusing the  behaviour of the Saudis BTW.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Great news for Newcastle, hope their fans enjoy the ride.

Click to expand...

Just not too much to eh🤭🤭


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## Stuart_C (Oct 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Listening to the fans calling in on the way home and that was the general feeling - they don’t want to be part of the sport washing and be owned by them but they are desperate for Ashley to go - with financial restrictions in place are they able to do what Chelsea then City did ?
		
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I suppose its like picking which one to look after your kids, Hindley or Brady.


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## Beezerk (Oct 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What do you think needs doing at the stadium? Nothing stands out as being in obvious need of replacement or improvement but I don't go that often to judge that well.
		
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Any chance they could buy an atmosphere from somewhere? 😄


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Any chance they could buy an atmosphere from somewhere? 😄
		
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Do the Saudi's have THAT much money 😳🤣


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## Cherry13 (Oct 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do the Saudi's have THAT much money 😳🤣
		
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It’s been poor the last few matches I’ve been at, but hopefully now it’ll be a bit better.  Where the away fans are doesn’t help, but nothing they can do about that, but hopefully having something to cheer about as opposed to just booing might create a better atmosphere.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			It’s been poor the last few matches I’ve been at, but hopefully now it’ll be a bit better.  Where the away fans are doesn’t help,* but nothing they can do about that,* but hopefully having something to cheer about as opposed to just booing might create a better atmosphere.
		
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To be fair, they can do something about that. They could bring them down to a better level, whether behind the goal or at the side. Putting them up in the gods means that they are barely heard by most of the ground and atmosphere is lost. It would ruffle some feathers with home fans who are moved but it is something the club should have done years ago.


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## fundy (Oct 7, 2021)

And another high profile premier league footballer arrested on suspicion of sexual assault. The bit of carpet they brush them under must be getting bigger and bigger.....


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## nickjdavis (Oct 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Listening to the fans calling in on the way home and that was the general feeling - they don’t want to be part of the sport washing and be owned by them but they are desperate for Ashley to go - with financial restrictions in place are they able to do what Chelsea then City did ?
		
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter whether we match what Chelsea and City did.

In the short term all that matters is that we have a club with vision and ambition and merely tries both on and off the field to achieve as high a finish as they can. Currently the club ownership is content to finish 17th each season.

Mike Ashley has robbed the fans and the city of the one thing that is critical where football supporters are concerned - HOPE. Maybe the takeover (irrespective of any reservations about the owners) might restore it. I believe that would be a start for most fans.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, they can do something about that. They could bring them down to a better level, whether behind the goal or at the side. Putting them up in the gods means that they are barely heard by most of the ground and atmosphere is lost. It would ruffle some feathers with home fans who are moved but it is something the club should have done years ago.
		
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I think that Northumbria police have raised reservations about this when the PL asked that away fans be placed behind goals or on ground level.  The argument being they can control and box them in on level 7. But I agree they are lost up there.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			It doesn't matter whether we match what Chelsea and City did.

In the short term all that matters is that we have a club with vision and ambition and merely tries both on and off the field to achieve as high a finish as they can. Currently the club ownership is content to finish 17th each season.

Mike Ashley has robbed the fans and the city of the one thing that is critical where football supporters are concerned - HOPE. Maybe the takeover (irrespective of any reservations about the owners) might restore it. I believe that would be a start for most fans.
		
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I’d like to think that possibly becoming the richest Club in the world the fans initially will have that hope in abundance and maybe within a few years, the belief they can challenge the for the top.

As previously posted, enjoy the ride.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 7, 2021)

Hard to find a good owner now days, you need stupid money to do anything and fans seem to think people just want to throw money at a club.

Good luck to Newcastle, I mean they won't be as well run as Leicester but they just got a class owner but if they transform the club to what the fan base deserves fair play 

I wish we could replace our owners but they seem to have taken a back seat and trusting the manager now so it's a step in right direction


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## GB72 (Oct 7, 2021)

Just out of interest, who would be happy with a club that could only compete on a domestic level if it meant that all clubs reverted to the ownership of the supporters. 

Would you give up your star names, be prepared to lose any promising youngsters to richer clubs abroad and having to go through, and often be knocked out in, the qulifying rounds of European tournaments if it ended corporate and foreign ownership across the board and put clubs in the hands of the supporters and communities. 

Never going to happen, totally hypothetical but it always crosses my mind when another big money takeover hits the news, would fans give up all of the glory and riches that it brings to effectively get their club back.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Hard to find a good owner now days, you need stupid money to do anything and fans seem to think people just want to throw money at a club.

Good luck to Newcastle, *I mean they won't be as well run as Leicester* but they just got a class owner but if they transform the club to what the fan base deserves fair play

I wish we could replace our owners but they seem to have taken a back seat and trusting the manager now so it's a step in right direction
		
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You mean the current Leicester owners that broke the financial rules to get out of the Championship?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Just out of interest, who would be happy with a club that could only compete on a domestic level if it meant that all clubs reverted to the ownership of the supporters.

Would you give up your star names, be prepared to lose any promising youngsters to richer clubs abroad and having to go through, and often be knocked out in, the qulifying rounds of European tournaments if it ended corporate and foreign ownership across the board and put clubs in the hands of the supporters and communities.

Never going to happen, totally hypothetical but it always crosses my mind when another big money takeover hits the news, would fans give up all of the glory and riches that it brings to effectively get their club back.
		
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We don't compete in Europe, like most clubs, so that wouldn't bother me.

What you also describe happens already. Promising youngster, gets bought by bigger fish, star names are of a level but if they go bigger they will be bought by a richer club. No change there.

 It will only bother the small elite at the top. In a way, it is like saying do you want the rich few at the top to clear off and play a European Super League and we will carry on without you? Yup, it wouldn't bother me. It won't happen though.


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## Beezerk (Oct 7, 2021)

Just trying to think of players at clubs who may be on their way out who Newcastle could sign.
Sterling, would he want to go there?
Lingard, maybe.
Kane 👀😆
Got to be honest I'm struggling. I imagine they'll do a City and pay over the odds for hyped prima donnas first off.


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## Piece (Oct 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Just trying to think of players at clubs who may be on their way out who Newcastle could sign.
Sterling, would he want to go there?
Lingard, maybe.
Kane 👀😆
Got to be honest I'm struggling. I imagine they'll do a City and pay over the odds for hyped prima donnas first off.
		
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I hear that all agents are on their way to St James Park right now


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## pauljames87 (Oct 7, 2021)

Piece said:



			I hear that all agents are on their way to St James Park right now 

Click to expand...





Live from outside st James park


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Just trying to think of players at clubs who may be on their way out who Newcastle could sign.
Sterling, would he want to go there?
Lingard, maybe.
Kane 👀😆
Got to be honest I'm struggling.* I imagine they'll do a City and pay over the odds for hyped prima donnas first off.*

Click to expand...

Agree with this. If you look at the team the only player who is really PL, mid table and above is Saint Maximim. Wilson might be but he is injured too often. That means they need a huge overhaul and you can't simply get really good players in on that scale. They will look at the team and go 'no thanks'. That means either Newcastle pay over the top, as you say, or they will have to build gradually picking up off casts. Maybe they can pick up some bargains from Barcelona or other financially strapped big boys right now but their wage bill will go nuts. Coutinho to Newcastle anyone?

As @Piece says, the agents will be pointing their private Leer jets at Newcastle right now.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 7, 2021)

Do what Chelsea did and buy almost every player that showed half decent premier League ability 

Remember when they had j cole, Robben and duff as their wingers?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Just trying to think of players at clubs who may be on their way out who Newcastle could sign.
Sterling, would he want to go there?
Lingard, maybe.
Kane 👀😆
Got to be honest I'm struggling. I imagine they'll do a City and pay over the odds for hyped prima donnas first off.
		
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Or go for those near end of contract and pay massive wages.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Agree with this. If you look at the team the only player who is really PL, mid table and above is Saint Maximim. Wilson might be but he is injured too often. That means they need a huge overhaul and you can't simply get really good players in on that scale. They will look at the team and go 'no thanks'. That means either Newcastle pay over the top, as you say, or they will have to build gradually picking up off casts. Maybe they can pick up some bargains from Barcelona or other financially strapped big boys right now but their wage bill will go nuts. Coutinho to Newcastle anyone?

As @Piece says, the agents will be pointing their private Leer jets at Newcastle right now.
		
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A lot may depend on what timescale the owners want success, if it’s a 5-10yr plan it maybe players to gradually move up the league, if it’s short term success then they’d have to spend big on at least 2-3 headline signings.

I wonder if they’ll go for an available manager or try and poach one from another Club?


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## pauljames87 (Oct 7, 2021)




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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A lot may depend on what timescale the owners want success, if it’s a 5-10yr plan it maybe players to gradually move up the league, if it’s short term success then they’d have to spend big on at least 2-3 headline signings.

I wonder if they’ll go for an available manager or try and poach one from another Club?
		
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I think your first point is the key to all of this. What may scupper some things is that they look like relegation fodder now, look who they have played and so still have to play, and so they will need to react to some degree in January. In an ideal world they would go with the 5-10yr plan, I think, and go with someone like Eddie Howe. The alternative is a big, daft name from overseas and waste money like crazy.

I think we know from our own club that one of the most important signings will be the director of football. They need a calm head who can guide them through this spell.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think your first point is the key to all of this. What may scupper some things is that they look like relegation fodder now, look who they have played and so still have to play, and so they will need to react to some degree in January. In an ideal world they would go with the 5-10yr plan, I think, and go with someone like Eddie Howe. The alternative is a big, daft name from overseas and waste money like crazy.

I think we know from our own club that one of the most important signings will be the director of football. They need a calm head who can guide them through this spell.
		
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I reckon the first job will be a new Manager, Benitez? 

The Manager will attract the players and show the World how high they are focusing and what their target is, no way do I think they’ll have a 10yr plan it’ll be success as soon as possible, big spends at Christmas and even more next summer.

They’ll be looking for CL qualification as a minimum in 2-3 seasons imo.


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## Beezerk (Oct 7, 2021)

Whatever happens,  it's going to be one hell of a roller coaster ride up here 😆


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I reckon the first job will be a new Manager, Benitez? 

The Manager will attract the players and show the World how high they are focusing and what their target is, no way do I think they’ll have a 10yr plan it’ll be success as soon as possible, big spends at Christmas and even more next summer.

They’ll be looking for CL qualification as a minimum in 2-3 seasons imo.
		
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Conte for the Toon? .

Can you imagine his first training session with the current players? His arms would be flailing all over the place in wonderful Italian exasperation


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Whatever happens,  it's going to be one hell of a roller coaster ride up here 😆
		
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100% agree, regardless of the morality of the owners or ffp etc, the normal fan in the street wants to see their team win on a saturday and win trophies, 99% of those fans don’t care who the owners are and were the money is coming from.

Their is nothing else in the City to compete for the fans hence why they have such a massive, passionate fan base.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 7, 2021)

Surely FFP wont allow them to just invest like a cash cow.

Villa's owners are pretty rich - were the 4th highest spenders in the prem since our return. Still cant go dropping 200m a window... Newcastle are a whole squad away from being relevant


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

Well worth a read.
https://www.themag.co.uk/2020/04/sportswashing-and-newcastle-united/


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Surely FFP wont allow them to just invest like a cash cow.

Villa's owners are pretty rich - were the 4th highest spenders in the prem since our return. Still cant go dropping 200m a window... Newcastle are a whole squad away from being relevant
		
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Big Mike hasn't been spending so I believe they have around £180m to splash before they touch FFP. This is according to press reports up here, I don't have an inside track. That wont buy them a top team but it can turn them into a mid table team in a year or two and that would make the fans happy. They can push on from there after that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Surely FFP wont allow them to just invest like a cash cow.

Villa's owners are pretty rich - were the 4th highest spenders in the prem since our return. Still cant go dropping 200m a window... Newcastle are a whole squad away from being relevant
		
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Not sure how correct this is, but seems to be reasonably accurate:

Under ffp A club can spend twice its annual turnover, over a 2 year period... their turnover is approx £120m.
Therefore after making profits under Ashley, Newc could have owner investments of over £240m and their outgoings can be double that again.

Another estimate:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446089512258613254


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not sure how correct this is, but seems to be reasonably accurate:

Under ffp A club can spend twice its annual turnover, over a 2 year period... their turnover is approx £120m.
Therefore after making profits under Ashley, Newc could have owner investments of over £240m and their outgoings can be double that again.
		
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This is before the disproportionately mega stadium sponsor deal that is bound to happen. Apparently @Tashyboy can tell them how to do that to max the cash


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This is before the disproportionately mega stadium sponsor deal that is bound to happen. Apparently @Tashyboy can tell them how to do that to max the cash 

Click to expand...

There is no way this consortium is buying a PL team to sit back and watch them fight relegation battles season after season.

“Big Six” may well be renamed “Super Seven” in the next few years.


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## fundy (Oct 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This is before the disproportionately mega stadium sponsor deal that is bound to happen. Apparently @Tashyboy can tell them how to do that to max the cash 

Click to expand...


is that before or after they announce Mourinho?


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## Bdill93 (Oct 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			There is no way this consortium is buying a PL team to sit back and watch them fight relegation battles season after season.

“Big Six” may well be renamed “Super Seven” in the next few years.

Click to expand...

Nah - Spurs just get replaced


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			is that before or after they announce Mourinho? 

Click to expand...

 Surely even the Saudi's know he is a busted flush now. Then again...........


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## fundy (Oct 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



 Surely even the Saudi's know he is a busted flush now. Then again...........
		
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opens up oddschecker........


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			opens up oddschecker........ 

Click to expand...

I cracked and did . 7 ahead of him in the betting but he is in there.


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## fundy (Oct 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I cracked and did . 7 ahead of him in the betting but he is in there.
		
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Ant or Dec 250/1 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## IanM (Oct 7, 2021)

More wage and transfer fee inflation.  

What happens when they get bored?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2021)

IanM said:



			More wage and transfer fee inflation. 

*What happens when they get bored*?
		
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That same question applies to pretty much any PL club. Take your pick. So far, if any owner or group has become bored there has been someone else to come along and take over. The bubble isn't bursting yet but if it does Newcastle won't be the only club in trouble.


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## arnieboy (Oct 7, 2021)

Removal of the Sports Direct signage around the ground would be a good start.


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 7, 2021)

Bruce quoted as 1/8 as next Manager to leave by 1 bookie and Gerrard 3/1 to replace followed by Conte


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## Dando (Oct 7, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Removal of the Sports Direct signage around the ground would be a good start.
		
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So will all players lose their lonsdale footwear sponsorship? 🤣🤣


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## Tashyboy (Oct 7, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Feel sorry for Newcastle fans. Long overdue getting rid of their horrible owner but just getting passed on to someone much worse.
		
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Is the wrong answer.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Feel sorry for Newcastle fans. Long overdue getting rid of their horrible owner but just getting passed on to someone much worse.
		
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I understand your point Kaz, but watching the local news just now, listening to the radio and talking to a couple of mates who are Season Ticket holders, it really isn’t what they are thinking or even caring about.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 7, 2021)

Personally am chuffed to bits for every geordie fan. Is there a more passionate fan in the country. Am yet to see it, and I include City fans in that comment. Newcastle have had a shocking owner for years, there fans don’t deserve that level of mediocrity and yet theres comments that the new owners are worse than Ashley. The bitterness has already started.
Flippin eck if the Newcastle ride is anything like the City ride. It’s gonna be a stonker. However a word of advice. Be ready for the snide comments. You will become a club that does not guarantee 6 points for the big clubs. You will not be a “ joke” anymore. You have bought success etc etc etc. You will be a club that takes points off the top clubs, you will be a club that turns the top four of ten years ago ( Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea) into a top 7 or 8.How is that not better for the Prem leagle.
congrats to all the Newcastle fans.
Howay the lads. 😁👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

Kaz said:



			I get that, and football sold its soul long ago, but this is another step deeper into the sewer.
		
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But this is the same regime that have been granted a “State Visit” by both our Government and Queen in the last few years.

It’s way bigger than football that sold its soul, I don’t understand why it’s always football that gets singled out to apparently do the right thing in this Country.

The hypocrisy is rife from the top to the man in the street.


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## DanFST (Oct 7, 2021)

Qatari's ain't a pleasant bunch either.

But I imagine people will still watch the world cup.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 7, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Bitter? I couldn't give a two hoots who wins or loses in English football. And, as a Rangers fan, I know exactly how awful Ashley is/was and I'd have him in a minute over the Saudis. Your club is being used to sportwash the image of one of the most despicable regimes on the planet.
		
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They are not Chinese.☹️


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## JT77 (Oct 7, 2021)

I don’t recall any of this out cry When a Saudi Prince bought Sheffield United?
come to think of it, I don’t recall this much out cry previously, and there are some very dubious owners of sports clubs, and businesses for that matter. 
Depending on how far back you wish to go, money has been made in all kinds of rotten ways, does it make it better that one rich person had money given to them by family who were evil 100 years ago versus 10 years ago? I guess that’s down to perception. 
I’ve been a Newcastle fan my entire life, family are from Blyth and Walker, but I grew up in hebburn, was a season ticket holder before we moved to NI and used to go and stand in the leezers before that. 
This last 14 years under Ashley have been awful for the lost part, nothing more so that the lack of hope fans have had. 
This has changed now, be it short or long term, who knows, we don’t know what the future holds, but at present, it feels very positive. 
I have listened to stavely  and Rueben discussing future plans, and not just for the club but the Reuben’s have also been investing in the local area which has to be a good thing. 
The PIF part of the group have invested in a lot of areas globally, whether that’s petrol, coffee, sports etc. it’s not up to Newcastle fans to morally take any high ground when our government and others, and other businesses deal with Saudi Arabia on a daily basis. 
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and even if we don’t agree sometimes it doesn’t always mean one is right and one is wrong, sometimes they just differ. 
I really hope my club can progress under the new owners and bring hope back to the city.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 7, 2021)

Wonder how they passed the Fit and proper owners test ?......nicely swerved there since the Saudis have a worse human rights record than the Abu Dhabi group.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Yip. I'm not singling football out. This is topical in the football thread.
		
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I know you’re not, I talking about the reaction in general.👍🏻

Some of these taking the moral high ground will be typing on their Iphone while wearing Nike clothing.

I don’t think it’s a case of supporting or not supporting these regimes imo, none of us can be anything but disgusted in some of the things we’ve read whilst at the same time some have put the present government in power who are quite happy to do Arms deals with these regimes.


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## DanFST (Oct 7, 2021)

JT77 said:



			I don’t recall any of this out cry When a Saudi Prince bought Sheffield United?
come to think of it, I don’t recall this much out cry previously, and there are some very dubious owners of sports clubs, and businesses for that matter.
Depending on how far back you wish to go, money has been made in all kinds of rotten ways, does it make it better that one rich person had money given to them by family who were evil 100 years ago versus 10 years ago? I guess that’s down to perception.
		
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Our owners made their money in porn. 

Your new ones *currently *are using state sanctioned rules such as: 

- Torture
- Executions
- Detaining and arresting with no reason
- Very little womens rights. And what they can do requires a man's permission (normally)
- Amputations
- no protests
- banning humanitarian agencies.
- lashing gays, those who have pre-marital sex. 


It's fair enough to say you don't really care, nothing you can do about it and you only want to see your team do well. But to compare them to everyone else is a piss poor excuse. There is no "opinion", they are awful people.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 7, 2021)

Only one thing stopping them becoming a force and that's the location.
I mean imagine Neymar strolling down the street at 2am after a night out and being accosted by a 20 stone Lycra clad beast with her bits out munching on a kebab the size of a Viking long boat, while one of her mates is taking a dump in a flower bed in a nearby garden. Just seems highly unlikely😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

JT77 said:



			I don’t recall any of this out cry When a Saudi Prince bought Sheffield United?
come to think of it, I don’t recall this much out cry previously, and there are some very dubious owners of sports clubs, and businesses for that matter.
Depending on how far back you wish to go, money has been made in all kinds of rotten ways, does it make it better that one rich person had money given to them by family who were evil 100 years ago versus 10 years ago? I guess that’s down to perception.
I’ve been a Newcastle fan my entire life, family are from Blyth and Walker, but I grew up in *hebburn*, was a season ticket holder before we moved to NI and used to go and stand in the leezers before that.
This last 14 years under Ashley have been awful for the lost part, nothing more so that the lack of hope fans have had.
This has changed now, be it short or long term, who knows, we don’t know what the future holds, but at present, it feels very positive.
I have listened to stavely  and Rueben discussing future plans, and not just for the club but the Reuben’s have also been investing in the local area which has to be a good thing.
The PIF part of the group have invested in a lot of areas globally, whether that’s petrol, coffee, sports etc. it’s not up to Newcastle fans to morally take any high ground when our government and others, and other businesses deal with Saudi Arabia on a daily basis.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and even if we don’t agree sometimes it doesn’t always mean one is right and one is wrong, sometimes they just differ.
I really hope my club can progress under the new owners and bring hope back to the city.
		
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“Where dreams go to die”


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## fundy (Oct 7, 2021)

Cracking goal for Belgium tonight by future Newcastle striker Lukaku created by future Newcastle midfielder De Bruyne


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## JT77 (Oct 7, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Our owners made their money in porn.

Your new ones *currently *are using state sanctioned rules such as:

- Torture
- Executions
- Detaining and arresting with no reason
- Very little womens rights. And what they can do requires a man's permission (normally)
- Amputations
- no protests
- banning humanitarian agencies.
- lashing gays, those who have pre-marital sex.


It's fair enough to say you don't really care, nothing you can do about it and you only want to see your team do well. But to compare them to everyone else is a piss poor excuse. There is no "opinion", they are awful people.
		
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I don’t know who you support but if your owners made money in pornography, an industry that has degraded people for years is not a great thing either. granted, it’s not as bad as the things you mentioned about the Saudi State.
I have not mentioned at all whether I agree with who owns my club, but I would like them to do well, as I am sure we all would.
I mentioned a Saudi Prince who bought Sheffield United who received none of the issues people are throwing at Newcastle fans and I mentioned that’s differing opinions are fine, which they are, at no point did I defend anyone or organisation. I do stand by what I said about taking morale high ground though, if other corporations and governments are doing business with the Saudis, why should it be on a group of football fans to do so?


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## Tashyboy (Oct 7, 2021)

Kaz said:



			"One of"

They've owned your club for less than a day and you're defending them already. That's why they've bought you.
		
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Er I support Man City 👍


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## DanFST (Oct 7, 2021)

JT77 said:



			I don’t know who you support but if your owners made money in pornography, an industry that has degraded people for years is not a great thing either. granted, it’s not as bad as the things you mentioned about the Saudi State.
		
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Then why mention it? Your owners abducted and killed a journalist in their embassy, in someone else's country. Are you attempting to say they are even close to being similar? 



JT77 said:



			I have not mentioned at all whether I agree with who owns my club, but I would like them to do well, as I am sure we all would.
		
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I loved going away to Newcastle, great lads, good banter, no trouble. Always felt they were like us, wanted them to do well. Not anymore.

I could care less who said what about anything else. Newcastle are rightly being called out for it right now. If it's worth it to you fair enough, but if that was West Ham I'd get my tattoo removed. They are disgusting. They can't pass the fit and proper owners test, so you are owned by a bunch of holding companies.


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## JT77 (Oct 7, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Then why mention it? Your owners abducted and killed a journalist in their embassy, in someone else's country. Are you attempting to say they are even close to being similar?



I loved going away to Newcastle, great lads, good banter, no trouble. Always felt they were like us, wanted them to do well. Not anymore.

I could care less who said what about anything else. Newcastle are rightly being called out for it right now. If it's worth it to you fair enough, but if that was West Ham I'd get my tattoo removed. They are disgusting. They can't pass the fit and proper owners test, so you are owned by a bunch of holding companies.
		
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I mentioned it as you did when you mentioned your owners? And I definitely did not say it was similar! As I clearly pointed out when I stated it is not as bad as the things you mentioned about the Saudi State!

Again you say the Newcastle fans should be called out, why?
The sheff United fans weren’t, so why now?
You’re fully entitled to have your opinion, I’d just like to know why now?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

JT77 said:



			I mentioned it as you did when you mentioned your owners? And I definitely did not say it was similar! As I clearly pointed out when I stated it is not as bad as the things you mentioned about the Saudi State!

Again you say the Newcastle fans should be called out, why?
The sheff United fans weren’t, so why now?
You’re fully entitled to have your opinion, I’d just like to know why now?
		
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Man Utd have received millions over the last 10yrs from their partnership with Saudi Telecom who are state owned, never seen the outrage over that either?


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## DanFST (Oct 7, 2021)

JT77 said:



			I mentioned it as you did when you mentioned your owners? And I definitely did not say it was similar! As I clearly pointed out when I stated it is not as bad as the things you mentioned about the Saudi State!

Again you say the Newcastle fans should be called out, why?
The sheff United fans weren’t, so why now?
You’re fully entitled to have your opinion, I’d just like to know why now?
		
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I mentioned it as it's not ideal, but even they are 100000000x better people than yours.

I didn't mention the fans, just the club. People that say "well others did x or y" should be at least informed they have the most despicable owners in the league. Sheffield did get called out, but they are owned by a Saudi man using his own money. He is closely linked to the state, but doesn't represent it. Yours are.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2021)

The France v Belgium game tonight has been superb.


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## JT77 (Oct 7, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I mentioned it as it's not ideal, but even they are 100000000x better people than yours.

I didn't mention the fans, just the club. People that say "well others did x or y" should be at least informed they have the most despicable owners in the league. Sheffield did get called out, but they are owned by a Saudi man using his own money. He is closely linked to the state, but doesn't represent it. Yours are.
		
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You didn’t mention anything about it being ideal, you just made the statement they made money in porn. 
I mentioned it wasn’t great, and agree it’s nothing in comparison to what you mentioned about the Saudi state. I don’t recall any grief to sheff United fans, you say their owner used his own money? Made how exactly? He is a prince from Saudi, surely this money would come from similar means? 
The fans of Newcastle don’t have a say in who owns the club though, it was owned by Mike Ashley, and he chose to sell it to who he wanted to as he was the owner. the fans can’t decide, Newcastle couldn’t decide, it was Mike Ashley’s choice as owner.  You’ve made you opinion quite clear, and as I’ve stated you’re more than welcome to it. I stated I liked what I heard from Stavely and Rueben, as that’s all I’ve heard from, they have invested locally already, this is good for the Newcastle area and ecconomy and I hope they continue to do so. It took her 4 years to get this deal so I’d say she is in for the long haul. 
In relation to PIF, they have invested in lots of areas, with governments, social media, sports clubs, etc, whether people agree or not, they will continue to do so. 
If what you say is right, I have not done extensive research in to them, I assume you have, based on your statements relating to them, time will tell I guess.


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## JT77 (Oct 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The France v Belgium game tonight has been superb.
		
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I watched the England U21 game, was ok, they were coasting, then not! Smith-Rowe looks a great prospect.


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## DanFST (Oct 7, 2021)

I think the sheffield guy made it through paper or something, probably backhanded. But his own money that isn't from a horrible regime. That's fair, time will tell, investment of the back of murder and misery isn't for me! Hope your fans say how disgusting they are and admit they can't do anything about it. And I'm incredibly surprised and sad it's gone through! At least Sunderland are no longer your rivals, just Amnesty International. 
*
"The Premier League has now received legally binding assurances that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia will not control Newcastle United Football Club."*

Whilst correct, this is off PIF's website. so not directly owned by the state, just using their sovereign wealth fund (state money), chaired by the Crown.







JT77 said:



			You didn’t mention anything about it being ideal, you just made the statement they made money in porn.
I mentioned it wasn’t great, and agree it’s nothing in comparison to what you mentioned about the Saudi state. I don’t recall any grief to sheff United fans, you say their owner used his own money? Made how exactly? He is a prince from Saudi, surely this money would come from similar means?
The fans of Newcastle don’t have a say in who owns the club though, it was owned by Mike Ashley, and he chose to sell it to who he wanted to as he was the owner. the fans can’t decide, Newcastle couldn’t decide, it was Mike Ashley’s choice as owner.  You’ve made you opinion quite clear, and as I’ve stated you’re more than welcome to it. I stated I liked what I heard from Stavely and Rueben, as that’s all I’ve heard from, they have invested locally already, this is good for the Newcastle area and ecconomy and I hope they continue to do so. It took her 4 years to get this deal so I’d say she is in for the long haul.
In relation to PIF, they have invested in lots of areas, with governments, social media, sports clubs, etc, whether people agree or not, they will continue to do so.
If what you say is right, I have not done extensive research in to them, I assume you have, based on your statements relating to them, time will tell I guess.
		
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## Ye Olde Boomer (Oct 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/2021-nfl-season.108648/

Happy to help 👍
		
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I see what you did.  Thanks. 

I guess that I just lump every variation of football together, i.e., 
all sports that I definitely don't like as much as baseball as of right now after the trauma I've recently experienced..

Not really on subject, but I do have a question or two.
I've seen thug characters in UK movies wielding baseball bats.
Are baseball bats readily available in the UK?
Are they sold primarily as weapons?
Is it in order to not desecrate Cricket bats by using them for criminal activity?  Would that offend the Indian population?
Should I bring a few bats across the next time that I visit?  Wooden [professional} or aluminum [recreational]?

Elsewhere in Europe, for reasons I cannot fathom, the US has military bases.  Baseball is actually played near them.
We have no bases in the UK, obviously.   Hamburger joints, yes, but not military bases.   Does anybody play baseball there?

And with these simple questions asked, I will no longer hijack the thread.  Sorry.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 8, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			I see what you did.  Thanks.

I guess that I just lump every variation of football together, i.e.,
all sports that I definitely don't like as much as baseball as of right now after the trauma I've recently experienced..

Not really on subject, but I do have a question or two.
I've seen thug characters in UK movies wielding baseball bats.
Are baseball bats readily available in the UK?
Are they sold primarily as weapons?
Is it in order to not desecrate Cricket bats by using them for criminal activity?  Would that offend the Indian population?
Should I bring a few bats across the next time that I visit?  Wooden [professional} or aluminum [recreational]?

Elsewhere in Europe, for reasons I cannot fathom, the US has military bases.  Baseball is actually played near them.
We have no bases in the UK, obviously.   Hamburger joints, yes, but not military bases.   Does anybody play baseball there?

And with these simple questions asked, I will no longer hijack the thread.  Sorry.
		
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It's not even a variation of football .. it's handball


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 8, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			I see what you did.  Thanks.

I guess that I just lump every variation of football together, i.e.,
all sports that I definitely don't like as much as baseball as of right now after the trauma I've recently experienced..

Not really on subject, but I do have a question or two.
I've seen thug characters in UK movies wielding baseball bats.
Are baseball bats readily available in the UK?
Are they sold primarily as weapons?
Is it in order to not desecrate Cricket bats by using them for criminal activity?  Would that offend the Indian population?
Should I bring a few bats across the next time that I visit?  Wooden [professional} or aluminum [recreational]?

Elsewhere in Europe, for reasons I cannot fathom, the US has military bases.  Baseball is actually played near them.
We have no bases in the UK, obviously.   Hamburger joints, yes, but not military bases.   Does anybody play baseball there?

And with these simple questions asked, I will no longer hijack the thread.  Sorry.
		
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To answer two questions, yes, baseball bats are mainly seen as a weapon in this country by criminals.

Baseball did have a "boom" in England/UK maybe in or around the 1930's, but didnt take hold as much after that. Derby County football club (a fairly famous club) had a ground that was called the baseball ground, but they left it about 20 years ago.

Rounders is better to watch.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Only one thing stopping them becoming a force and that's the location.
I mean imagine Neymar strolling down the street at 2am after a night out and being accosted by a 20 stone Lycra clad beast with her bits out munching on a kebab the size of a Viking long boat, while one of her mates is taking a dump in a flower bed in a nearby garden. Just seems highly unlikely😁
		
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They didn't struggle to attract players during the Keegan years, they won't now. Do you think top players dream of strolling around Manchester? Players will follow the money, simple as.

I went past St James last night on the way to the theatre, not highbrow it was an evening with Rob Brydon. Very good it was too 😄. Anyway, you would have thought they'd won the league. There were thousands outside the ground, singing as though a game was on and they were 4-0 up. We lowered the windows because we couldn't quite believe they volume of the singing, it was nuts. The pubs did well though, when we came out of the theatre there were a lot of drunks in Toon shirts wobbling around 🍻😁. Needless to say, the news has gone down well.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They didn't struggle to attract players during the Keegan years, they won't now. Do you think top players dream of strolling around Manchester? Players will follow the money, simple as.

I went past St James last night on the way to the theatre, not highbrow it was an evening with Rob Brydon. Very good it was too 😄. Anyway, you would have thought they'd won the league. There were thousands outside the ground, singing as though a game was on and they were 4-0 up. We lowered the windows because we couldn't quite believe they volume of the singing, it was nuts. The pubs did well though, when we came out of the theatre there were a lot of drunks in Toon shirts wobbling around 🍻😁. Needless to say, the news has gone down well.
		
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My post was rather tongue in cheek LT, I don't begrudge the Barcodes a bit of success...... 


Meanwhile at Darsley Park, the new owners of Newcastle United wasted no time in implementing their traditional training regime.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			My post was rather tongue in cheek LT, I don't begrudge the Barcodes a bit of success......
		
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I thought it was but it is a line that is rolled out occasionally in all seriousness so I went for it anyway . It is a genuine issue but it is usually solved by paying more. The reality is that the overseas players largely want to go to London. To get them to go to Manchester, Merseyside, Birmingham, Yorkshire etc all needs an extra incentive and clubs just have to factor that in. Anyway, the Toon fans are thinking more Mbappe than Neymar


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## Tashyboy (Oct 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Man Utd have received millions over the last 10yrs from their partnership with Saudi Telecom who are state owned, never seen the outrage over that either?
		
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I mentioned to Kaz that the Chinese were as bad as the Saudis when it comes to human rights. It was very much said tongue in cheek. Even though City owners are predominantly UAE the club sold 9% of its shares to the Chinese. My point is that most clubs have more than one owner. Owners who are not angels.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought it was but it is a line that is rolled out occasionally in all seriousness so I went for it anyway . It is a genuine issue but it is usually solved by paying more. The reality is that the overseas players largely want to go to London. To get them to go to Manchester, Merseyside, Birmingham, Yorkshire etc all needs an extra incentive and clubs just have to factor that in. Anyway, the Toon fans are thinking more Mbappe than Neymar 

Click to expand...

They should be thinking more about players a bit past their prime who want a last payday. Lingard, Kane etc. Gotta love the Toon army, there was some bloke on TS yesterday saying they should get Kevin Keegan back! 😂😂😂 

This doesn’t look good though…. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....remier-league-newcastle-takeover-25161856.amp

I mean Gold and Sullivan are sleezy, good for nothing, porn peddlers but I don’t think Amnesty were warning the Prem about them!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



*They should be thinking more about players a bit past their prime who want a last payday. Lingard, Kane etc.* Gotta love the Toon army, there was some bloke on TS yesterday saying they should get Kevin Keegan back! 😂😂😂

This doesn’t look good though….

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....remier-league-newcastle-takeover-25161856.amp

I mean Gold and Sullivan are sleezy, good for nothing, porn peddlers but I don’t think Amnesty were warning the Prem about them!
		
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I suspect that is exactly who they will go for, not Kane mind, not for another couple of years. They can't offer the top guys trophies or Europe at this stage so they will have to go to the rung below. The good news is that quite a few big clubs in Europe are in a financial mess, some English clubs have bloated squads, so players are available if you have the money and they certainly have that now.

I'm not sure the PL will be worrying about what Amnesty say. To the PL it's business, nothing more.

Kev, bless him. I'm amazed they don't have a statue of him already. They have one of Bobby Robson, Alan Shearer but not Kev. He is still god like up here.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 8, 2021)

Anyway seen as we have done the “Newcastle are now run by odious owners” bit. Back to Football.

Where do Newcastle go from here to get to the top table. If the City way is the route. The most important thing was getting the back room staff to set out a business plan. city moulded there plan on how Barcelona was run.They brought in Ferano Soriano and a few others. The long term goal was getting in Pep. Short term I would think Newcastle need to have something like that as a foundation. The biggest thing re the team, who is going to manage them, who is going to be convinced to go to manage at the moment a mediocre team. Failing that, would you trust Steve Bruce with hundreds of millions.. Next the players. The ones that can play to a good standard in the Prem league for the next 2-3 years they need to keep. I have a feeling that could be half a dozen players at most. There is going to be a lot of comings and going’s.
Personally I think Newcastle fans are not going to know what has hit them Over the next few years.😁👍


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## Neilds (Oct 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I suspect that is exactly who they will go for, not Kane mind, not for another couple of years. They can't offer the top guys trophies or Europe at this stage so they will have to go to the rung below. The good news is that quite a few big clubs in Europe are in a financial mess, some English clubs have bloated squads, so players are available if you have the money and they certainly have that now.

I'm not sure the PL will be worrying about what Amnesty say. To the PL it's business, nothing more.

Kev, bless him. I'm amazed they don't have a statue of him already. They have one of Bobby Robson, Alan Shearer but not Kev. He is still god like up here.
		
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I think the trouble may be is that, by the time the transfer window opens in January, it may be too late for the rest of the season.  People forget that Newcastle haven't won yet this season and they can't bring in anyone new for a few months yet.  Will big names want to come in and join a relegation dogfight and then face a new season in the Championship?  It has been shown many a time that big names don't always help when you are scrapping for every point at the bottom.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 8, 2021)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			I see what you did.  Thanks.

I guess that I just lump every variation of football together, i.e.,
all sports that I definitely don't like as much as baseball as of right now after the trauma I've recently experienced..

Not really on subject, but I do have a question or two.
I've seen thug characters in UK movies wielding baseball bats.
Are baseball bats readily available in the UK?
Are they sold primarily as weapons?
Is it in order to not desecrate Cricket bats by using them for criminal activity?  Would that offend the Indian population?
Should I bring a few bats across the next time that I visit?  Wooden [professional} or aluminum [recreational]?

Elsewhere in Europe, for reasons I cannot fathom, the US has military bases.  Baseball is actually played near them.
We have no bases in the UK, obviously.   Hamburger joints, yes, but not military bases.   Does anybody play baseball there?

And with these simple questions asked, I will no longer hijack the thread.  Sorry.
		
Click to expand...

There are plenty of thug characters in US tv that carry a baseball bat. See Negan and Harley Quinn.

The US has quite a few military bases in the UK. I've been on at least 1 with a baseball wicket.

Baseball isn't popular in the UK, as we already have terminally dull games that involve standing in a field while players try to hit a ball someone has thrown at them with a stick.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			They should be thinking more about players a bit past their prime who want a last payday. Lingard, Kane etc. Gotta love the Toon army, there was some bloke on TS yesterday saying they should get Kevin Keegan back! 😂😂😂

This doesn’t look good though….

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....remier-league-newcastle-takeover-25161856.amp

I mean Gold and Sullivan are sleezy, good for nothing, porn peddlers but I don’t think Amnesty were warning the Prem about them!
		
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Where is the fuss from Amnesty International about Man Utd’s 11yr deal with the Saudi regime?

Really think they need to sort themselves out before trying to tell the PL how they should and should not conduct business.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...tional-has-toxic-working-culture-report-finds

https://eutoday.net/news/politics/2020/amnesty-international-questions


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Let's have a bit of fun with the Toon's new wealth. Looking at that team only Saint Maximim is worth a place so let's fill the team with players who are currently on the fringes of their current team but are better than currently at St James

Henderson (Man Utd GK)

Loftus Cheek (Chelsea)
Winks (Spurs)
Lingard (M. Utd)
Coutinho (Barcelona)
Isco (R.Madrid)

Any defenders kicking around? A goalscorer gathering dust?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyway seen as we have done the “Newcastle are now run by odious owners” bit. Back to Football.

Where do Newcastle go from here to get to the top table. If the City way is the route. The most important thing was getting the back room staff to set out a business plan. city moulded there plan on how Barcelona was run.They brought in Ferano Soriano and a few others. The long term goal was getting in Pep. Short term I would think Newcastle need to have something like that as a foundation. The biggest thing re the team, who is going to manage them, who is going to be convinced to go to manage at the moment a mediocre team. Failing that, would you trust Steve Bruce with hundreds of millions.. Next the players. The ones that can play to a good standard in the Prem league for the next 2-3 years they need to keep. I have a feeling that could be half a dozen players at most. There is going to be a lot of comings and going’s.
Personally I think Newcastle fans are not going to know what has hit them Over the next few years.😁👍
		
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The plan this season has to be PL survival.

Jan maybe too late to bring the really big names in, plus they won’t be able to tempt them with Championship football a likely outcome.


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## Beezerk (Oct 8, 2021)

Neilds said:



			I think the trouble may be is that, by the time the transfer window opens in January, it may be too late for the rest of the season.  People forget that Newcastle haven't won yet this season and they can't bring in anyone new for a few months yet.  Will big names want to come in and join a relegation dogfight and then face a new season in the Championship?  It has been shown many a time that big names don't always help when you are scrapping for every point at the bottom.
		
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Can't you get loan signings outside the transfer window? Sure I could Google it but I can't be bothered 😁


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## Fade and Die (Oct 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Where is the fuss from Amnesty International about Man Utd’s 11yr deal with the Saudi regime?

Really think they need to sort themselves out before trying to tell the PL how they should and should not conduct business.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...tional-has-toxic-working-culture-report-finds

https://eutoday.net/news/politics/2020/amnesty-international-questions

Click to expand...

Does seem strangely absent! I had a quick google and they have condemned Man City and now Newcastle but not a peep about Man U. 🤔


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Can't you get loan signings outside the transfer window? Sure I could Google it but I can't be bothered 😁
		
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I'm bored this morning 

- Premier League clubs may not register more than *two players on loan at any one time*.
- The maximum number of loans registrable in the same season is four, and, under no circumstances, shall more than one be from the same club at any one time.
- Premier League clubs cannot loan to another Premier League club a player they have acquired in the same transfer window.
- A Premier League club may loan not more than one of its goalkeepers to another Premier League club. 

I don't know if they have anyone on loan right now so this is an avenue for them


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## fundy (Oct 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Let's have a bit of fun with the Toon's new wealth. Looking at that team only Saint Maximim is worth a place so let's fill the team with players who are currently on the fringes of their current team but are better than currently at St James

Henderson (Man Utd GK)

Loftus Cheek (Chelsea)
Winks (Spurs)
Lingard (M. Utd)
Coutinho (Barcelona)
Isco (R.Madrid)

Any defenders kicking around? A goalscorer gathering dust?
		
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how do you write this list and have Winks second outfield player on it. LT for Toon manager


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## Neilds (Oct 8, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Can't you get loan signings outside the transfer window? Sure I could Google it but I can't be bothered 😁
		
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Done the hard work for you 
Couldn't see anything about windows but PL clubs can only have 2 loan players at any one time and a max of 4 in a season. They have 1 one loan (Munoz) but he doesn't appear to be in squad so not sure what the rules are with him.

Edit: Beaten by LT -he must have less work on than me!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Does seem strangely absent! I had a quick google and they have condemned Man City and now Newcastle but not a peep about Man U. 🤔
		
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Exactly, and it’s not as if it’s been kept quiet, that deal has been in place since 2010.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Can't you get loan signings outside the transfer window? Sure I could Google it but I can't be bothered 😁
		
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Are you allowed to sign Players who are out of contract or are not signed with anyone?


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## Neilds (Oct 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you allowed to sign Players who are out of contract or are not signed with anyone?
		
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Yes, unattached players can be signed at any time but not sure there would be many 'top' players who were in this category


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Done the hard work for you 
Couldn't see anything about windows but PL clubs can only have 2 loan players at any one time and a max of 4 in a season. They have 1 one loan (Munoz) but he doesn't appear to be in squad so not sure what the rules are with him.

Edit: Beaten by LT -he must have less work on than me!

Click to expand...

It's a Friday, I'm knocking off early anyway. I'm treading water here until 12


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Yes, unattached players can be signed at any time but not sure there would be many 'top' players who were in this category
		
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I was wondering if there might be any in the short term to help strengthen this season. 👍🏻


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Do Newcastle have a women’s team? What’s their take on it?
		
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They do have a team but they are in the lower levels of womens football. The reality is they are entirely dependent on the main club. If they don't like the new owners then they are free to move but I'd be surprised if many do. 

Alternatively, the new owners may put lots of money into the ladies team, upgrade them from their current status and improve their lot. If I was a female player at Newcastle right now I would be seeing opportunities opening and think I was in exactly the right place.

I know you are wanting a moral stance on this but in sport we have a way of separating sport and politics when it suits. Let's face it, golf is one of the worst for this. Is there any country with a questionable record that doesn't hold a tournament, male or female? The LET are back in Saudi next month for example, 3rd year in a row I think


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## Beezerk (Oct 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I was wondering if there might be any in the short term to help strengthen this season. 👍🏻
		
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I'd be surprised if the new regime haven’t already got some players tapped up or a pre prepared list of players to approach. No serious buyer would go into this without some form of game plan already in place. 
I've been winding up my Geordie mates how I'd love it if they got relegated this season 🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			how do you write this list and have Winks second outfield player on it. LT for Toon manager 

Click to expand...

GK always comes first. After that it was just players who came to mind, no order.

I actually don't know that much about Winks but he isn't getting a game at Spurs and Everton keep being linked with him. Sounds like someone who Newcastle could pick up quite easily and it would be a good move for him. For any player on the fringes right now, who wouldn't want to join this ride. They have seen how it worked at City.

I'd take the job, mainly because it is hugely profitable no matter how rubbish you are. 3 year contract £5m p/a sounds about right. 8 months in, I get the boot with a big pay off  . I'd get to play in the all the charity days at Close House for free as well. Win, win


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## fundy (Oct 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			GK always comes first. After that it was just players who came to mind, no order.

I actually don't know that much about Winks but he isn't getting a game at Spurs and Everton keep being linked with him. Sounds like someone who Newcastle could pick up quite easily and it would be a good move for him. For any player on the fringes right now, who wouldn't want to join this ride. They have seen how it worked at City.

I'd take the job, mainly because it is hugely profitable no matter how rubbish you are. 3 year contract £5m p/a sounds about right. 8 months in, I get the boot with a big pay off  . I'd get to play in the all the charity days at Close House for free as well. Win, win 

Click to expand...


oh i dont doubt Winks would jump at the chance........


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Oct 8, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			There are plenty of thug characters in US tv that carry a baseball bat. See Negan and Harley Quinn.

The US has quite a few military bases in the UK. I've been on at least 1 with a baseball wicket.

Baseball isn't popular in the UK, as we already have terminally dull games that involve standing in a field while players try to hit a ball someone has thrown at them with a stick.
		
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I can't imagine why we'd have military bases in the UK.  
The UK is a nuclear power.  You don't need us hanging around.   Maybe it's good for the economy or something--I don't know.


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## fundy (Oct 8, 2021)

Go on then who else is out there not currently first choice:

Henderson/Leno
Telles/Stones/Gomez/Ake
Traore/Van de Beek/Perez/Barkley/HudsonOdoi/Loftus Cheek/Yarmolenko/Ndombele/Lookman
Cavani/Martial/Mahrez/Sterling/Nketiah/Origi/Lacazette/

Thats just in the prem, if I was Newcastle Id be shopping in France/Spain/Germany a fair bit in January


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## fundy (Oct 8, 2021)

lol they couldnt wait to give Ronaldo a player of the month award and the associated publicity


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			Go on then who else is out there not currently first choice:

Henderson/Leno
Telles/Stones/Gomez/Ake
Traore/Van de Beek/Perez/Barkley/HudsonOdoi/Loftus Cheek/Yarmolenko/Ndombele/Lookman
Cavani/Martial/Mahrez/Sterling/Nketiah/Origi/Lacazette/

Thats just in the prem, if I was Newcastle Id be shopping in France/Spain/Germany a fair bit in January
		
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Oi, get your own job . 

That's a really good list. There are enough on there that would be genuinely interesting for the club, not just daft forum / pub chat. One of the benefits for Newcastle is that a number of these players are almost trapped at their clubs, paid big money (I know, bless em), but no one wants to take them at those wage levels. That wont impact Newcastle so they could pick up some proper players for modest fees, big wages, and get going in January quite quickly.


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## Beezerk (Oct 8, 2021)

De Beek at Newcastle, wow 😯


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Don’t want to pick on you as it’s clear that I’m in the minority on this but I really despair at our endless ability to compartmentalise and ignore atrocity and deflect with crude whataboutery.

If disgust at regimes that murder their critics and enslave half their population can be dismissed as “politics” we’re in a deep moral vacuum.

My views on golf in Saudi are not in conflict with my views on this but that would be a different thread.
		
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The reality is that if you look at a range of owners, regimes etc that very few would pass a moral test. That is the reality of the situation. I might not like the Saudi regime but I think there are an awful lot of others in a similar boat. Where does the line get crossed on that front? I would agree that the Saudis are on the wrong side of that debate but a lot of owners would be very close by if you started to look at their behaviour and record. People have developed a moral outrage at this deal whilst forgetting others, including sponsors, etc. This is ultimately a country that our country welcomes with open arms, our head of state welcomes with open arms and is heavily involved already in sport, racing, in this country. The horse has bolted on this one.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Don’t want to pick on you as it’s clear that I’m in the minority on this but I really despair at our endless ability to compartmentalise and ignore atrocity and deflect with crude whataboutery.

If disgust at regimes that murder their critics and enslave half their population can be dismissed as “politics” we’re in a deep moral vacuum.

My views on golf in Saudi are not in conflict with my views on this but that would be a different thread.
		
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I don’t think you are in a minority in your opinions on the Saudi Regime, to me the issue is more about, what impact they have on my life right now and what, if anything I could do that would make a difference.

We have heads of state doing billions of dollars worth of business with them, until they start stepping up there is very, very little the normal person can do, yes we could protest, yes we can choose not to buy any products that they are involved with, but were does it end?


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## Kellfire (Oct 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The reality is that if you look at a range of owners, regimes etc that very few would pass a moral test. That is the reality of the situation. I might not like the Saudi regime but I think there are an awful lot of others in a similar boat. Where does the line get crossed on that front? I would agree that the Saudis are on the wrong side of that debate but a lot of owners would be very close by if you started to look at their behaviour and record. People have developed a moral outrage at this deal whilst forgetting others, including sponsors, etc. This is ultimately a country that our country welcomes with open arms, our head of state welcomes with open arms and is heavily involved already in sport, racing, in this country. The horse has bolted on this one.
		
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You do realise you responded to Kaz’s critique of whataboutery by instantly launching into more whataboutery?


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## Beezerk (Oct 8, 2021)

Here we go 🙈


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## DanFST (Oct 8, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Don’t want to pick on you as it’s clear that I’m in the minority on this but I really despair at our endless ability to compartmentalise and ignore atrocity and deflect with crude whataboutery.

If disgust at regimes that murder their critics and enslave half their population can be dismissed as “politics” we’re in a deep moral vacuum.

My views on golf in Saudi are not in conflict with my views on this but that would be a different thread.
		
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Good job Graham Carr has left. Performance from his son Alan at half time, getting stoned and lashings.


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## DanFST (Oct 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think you are in a minority in your opinions on the Saudi Regime, to me the issue is more about, what impact they have on my life right now and what, if anything I could do that would make a difference.

We have heads of state doing billions of dollars worth of business with them, until they start stepping up there is very, very little the normal person can do, yes we could protest, *yes we can choose not to buy any products that they are involved with*, but were does it end?
		
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But most toon fans aren't even acknowledging the horrible people they are. They are using whataboutery to deflect. How can they start to hold their cash back, when they want to ignore the truth? 

I stopped going to football and giving any money to my club, when we sold our ground for a crap 99 year lease. It's not particularly hard.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			You do realise you responded to Kaz’s critique of whataboutery by instantly launching into more whataboutery?
		
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Yes


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

DanFST said:



			But most toon fans aren't even acknowledging the horrible people they are. They are using whataboutery to deflect. How can they start to hold their cash back, when they want to ignore the truth?

I stopped going to football and giving any money to my club, when we sold our ground for a crap 99 year lease. It's not particularly hard.
		
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Actually most of the sensible fans are acknowledging it, and are content to keep supporting Newcastle, the 2 things are possible, just like Amnesty International stated last night.

What is winding them up more is the faux outrage from politicians and supporters of other Clubs who also have links to the Saudi and other horrible regimes and yet have said nothing in the past.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

Kaz said:



			This was my original point, I think. You can sympathise with fans celebrating getting rid of Ashley. And you can’t just stop supporting your club because of the owners, it doesn’t work like that. Plenty won’t care at all I expect but not a great situation for those that do.
		
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Unfortunately I think the majority of them/us are far more shallow than they’d get credit for and only see it as a positive situation to be in.


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## Beezerk (Oct 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Actually most of the sensible fans are acknowledging it, and are content to keep supporting Newcastle, the 2 things are possible, just like Amnesty International stated last night.
		
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Exactly,  I wonder if some people are basing their opinions of Newcastle fans on the TV pictures last night. I can assure you those aren't the real match going fans, they are just the rabble from the West End who descend on the ground at the drop of a hat lol.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Exactly,  I wonder if some people are basing their opinions of Newcastle fans on the TV pictures last night. I can assure you those aren't the real match going fans, they are just the rabble from the West End who descend on the ground at the drop of a hat lol.
		
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I am amazed at the number of Sunderland fans who have suddenly become socially aware.


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## GB72 (Oct 8, 2021)

It is a sad state of affairs but a majority of sport is morally or socially corupt. From football club owners to golf in certain nations. from the larger rugby nations poaching players and not helping fund the smaller nations (looking mainly at the pacific islands) to the closed shop of european rugby, from betting scandals in cricket and snooker to name but 2 to the doping and cheating in athletics and road cycling, from the bullying in track cycling and gymantics to the wholsale promotion in many sports of predatory gambling companies, it is all wrong and all pretty abhorrent. Sport as an ideal and an example of corrinthean spirit and, to coin a phrase, sportsmanship has pretty much disappeared with the ethos that winning and, more importantly, making money are the be all and end all has replaced what was the friendly rivalry between towns and nations. At a supporting level, sport can bring people and nations together but it does not take much to scratch the surface and find something festering underneath.

So, what do you do. Do you disregard your club, your sport and all of those things that you are passionate about or do you disregard the background and focus on the simple act of supporting. I, for my sins, do that latter and I know aht some will disagree and see that as wrong but to come out againts all of the plethora of wrongs and attrocities associated with sport in general would mean to effectively wipe the supporting of sport out of my life and I cannot do that.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Was going to like this post but baulked at that... I agree with you but don’t like it.
		
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I don't disagree with you 👍

The like button is a quandary at times. Agreeing is not the same as liking but they can't have multiple options for this.


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## Jensen (Oct 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Only one thing stopping them becoming a force and that's the location.
I mean imagine Neymar strolling down the street at 2am after a night out and being accosted by a 20 stone Lycra clad beast with her bits out munching on a kebab the size of a Viking long boat, while one of her mates is taking a dump in a flower bed in a nearby garden. Just seems highly unlikely😁
		
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What do you mean, my wife’s a Geordie and that’s a class lass up here…


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol they couldnt wait to give Ronaldo a player of the month award and the associated publicity
		
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Ronaldo player of the month 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Oct 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ronaldo player of the month 😂😂😂
View attachment 38860

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You can tell its not they gave Arteta manager of the month


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

A year old, but worth another post😂😂


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## Jensen (Oct 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They didn't struggle to attract players during the Keegan years, they won't now. Do you think top players dream of strolling around Manchester? Players will follow the money, simple as.

I went past St James last night on the way to the theatre, not highbrow it was an evening with Rob Brydon. Very good it was too 😄. Anyway, you would have thought they'd won the league. There were thousands outside the ground, singing as though a game was on and they were 4-0 up. We lowered the windows because we couldn't quite believe they volume of the singing, it was nuts. The pubs did well though, when we came out of the theatre there were a lot of drunks in Toon shirts wobbling around 🍻😁. Needless to say, the news has gone down well.
		
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I’ve lived up here 32 years now, and they are fantastic supporters.
I remember in 1989/90 before football was fashionable, and Newcastle had gates of 16,000 and they were in the bottom third of the old Second Division watching real dross. Fabulous supporters and people I love em, great people.
Instead of shouting “Howay the Lads”it’ll now be “Salam Allah Kum”


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’ve lived up here 32 years now, and they are fantastic supporters.
I remember in 1989/90 before football was fashionable, and Newcastle had gates of 16,000 and they were in the bottom third of the old Second Division watching real dross. Fabulous supporters and people I love em, great people.
Instead of shouting “Howay the Lads”it’ll now be “Salam Allah Kum”
		
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But if you want to wind them up, just remind them they held the record for the lowest attendance in top flight football for the 1970’s a crowd of around 7,000 v Norwich.

They only lost the record when the likes of Wimbledon got in to the PL.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I am amazed at the number of Sunderland fans who have suddenly become socially aware.

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When City were bought by sheik Mansoor you could of swopped  the above statement for Manchester Utd fans. In fa t all fans of the top table with the possible exception of Chelsea fans. That said people tend to forget Thaskin Shinawatra who owned City before Mr Mansoor bought the club. He was classed as fit and proper, an Ex Thai primeminister. He was as bent as they came. Incidentally he tried to buy both Fulham and Liverpool. I wonder if people’s/ fans thoughts about him would be differant if that had happened.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't disagree with you 👍

The like button is a quandary at times. Agreeing is not the same as liking but they can't have multiple options for this.
		
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However the ignore button is brilliant 😂😂


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## williamalex1 (Oct 8, 2021)

Good deal


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			However the ignore button is brilliant 😂😂
		
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I don't use it but there are times I regret that decision 😄


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2021)

The Saudis were always going to buy a club - Newcastle don’t have any debt and was prime to be taken over. 

Morally everything about Saudi Arabia is more than questionable- but morals left football and most sports long time ago 

First thing - it’s clear the Prem league don’t care when they and everyone knows that the club is state owned despite the “legally binding declaration” it’s not - a state owning a club imo is wrong 

Now looking at a football side - all the talk is about them now winning the league within 5 years - imo I don’t see them doing that and maybe not for a while 

What level of manager are they going to attract ? And also what players are they going to attract - will the money mean they now battle City and Chelsea for the likes of Haaland and Mbappe?


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## 4LEX (Oct 8, 2021)

I almost crashed my car yesterday when I heard a Newcastle fan on TalkSport wanting Keegan to replace Bruce


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## Cherry13 (Oct 8, 2021)

They had over £100m in debt, it was just owed to the previous owner, hence the price. The club is no where near worth £300m but he wanted his investment (£200m after shepherd and hall stung him on some loans) and the loans he’d given the club back. (He was entitled to demand it back to be fair). 

I think it’s clear that the separation issue will continue to hang over the club, and let’s be honest you are probably right, regardless of what staveley claims with regards to it just being an investment firm.  But the PL didn’t care about that, they cared about piracy and that was it. Once that was resolved all other issues went away, the agreement is just a smokescreen for the piracy issue. 

As for the football side, I havent heard any claims of winning the league within 5 years, I’ve heard 5-10 years for competing, but must admit paid less attention today so if any update to that would be interested in reading. 

I think the manager decision will be a huge indicator of ambition, if they go after a Conte/Zidane then that to me indicates they are going to go for it.  No way Conte takes us on without guarentees of big spending.  I think the more likely scenario is Howe, or Favre and that to me indicates a longer term plan. 

As for all the other talk about the morality of it, and if as a fan we should be ashamed or answerable for any of it. I agree in an ideal world, they wouldn’t be anywhere near our club (hell in an ideal world, I’d own it) but the reality is now they do, so after it settles down I’ll be looking at NUST to positively engage and challenge the owners, I’ll be looking at the PL and other owners to do the same.  Maybe it’ll make absolutely zero difference but if we can influence them in anyway then hopefully there will be a slither of positivity.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 8, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			They had over £100m in debt, it was just owed to the previous owner, hence the price. The club is no where near worth £300m but he wanted his investment (£200m after shepherd and hall stung him on some loans) and the loans he’d given the club back. (He was entitled to demand it back to be fair).

I think it’s clear that the separation issue will continue to hang over the club, and let’s be honest you are probably right, regardless of what staveley claims with regards to it just being an investment firm.  But the PL didn’t care about that, they cared about piracy and that was it. Once that was resolved all other issues went away, the agreement is just a smokescreen for the piracy issue.

As for the football side, I havent heard any claims of winning the league within 5 years, I’ve heard 5-10 years for competing, but must admit paid less attention today so if any update to that would be interested in reading.

I think the manager decision will be a huge indicator of ambition, if they go after a Conte/Zidane then that to me indicates they are going to go for it.  No way Conte takes us on without guarentees of big spending.  I think the more likely scenario is Howe, or Favre and that to me indicates a longer term plan.

As for all the other talk about the morality of it, and if as a fan we should be ashamed or answerable for any of it. I agree in an ideal world, they wouldn’t be anywhere near our club (hell in an ideal world, I’d own it) but the reality is now they do, so after it settles down I’ll be looking at NUST to positively engage and challenge the owners, I’ll be looking at the PL and other owners to do the same.  Maybe it’ll make absolutely zero difference but if we can influence them in anyway then hopefully there will be a slither of positivity.
		
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I think the manager issue is massive, Conte and ZZ bring in big names. It’s shows an intent. Howe and Favre you would of jumped at either of them 6 months ago. But the take over has set the bar higher. Really looking forward to see how it pans out for Newcastle More so it’s fans.
Football is a roller coaster, City fans know that. Newcastle are finally on the rise. Hold on tight 👍


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## 4LEX (Oct 8, 2021)

Forget doing it brick by brick, Newcastle need to spend big right away to compete and bring in a big name manager, huge signings and signal their intent. As they won't be bothered about the CL for 4-5 years they have no worries of FFP. It's all about cups short term and then the title. 

Newcastle don't have a bad side, just a bad manager. Conte would shake things up and a January spending spree would see them top half.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 8, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Forget doing it brick by brick, Newcastle need to spend big right away to compete and bring in a big name manager, huge signings and signal their intent. As they won't be bothered about the CL for 4-5 years they have no worries of FFP. It's all about cups short term and then the title.

Newcastle don't have a bad side, just a bad manager. Conte would shake things up and a January spending spree would see them top half.
		
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God it’s going to be a thud back down to earth when Graeme Jones is appointed on an interim basis and then ends up seeing the season out and we finish bloody 13th!! Haha. 
Could you see Conte coming to a club that aren’t in CL and likely won’t be for a long time?  Regardless of how much they spend? It’ll be a massive statement if they get him, but I honestly will be surprised.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 9, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			They had over £100m in debt, it was just owed to the previous owner, hence the price. The club is no where near worth £300m but he wanted his investment (£200m after shepherd and hall stung him on some loans) and the loans he’d given the club back. (He was entitled to demand it back to be fair).

I think it’s clear that the separation issue will continue to hang over the club, and let’s be honest you are probably right, regardless of what staveley claims with regards to it just being an investment firm.  But the PL didn’t care about that, they cared about piracy and that was it. Once that was resolved all other issues went away, the agreement is just a smokescreen for the piracy issue.

As for the football side, *I havent heard any claims of winning the league within 5 years, I’ve heard 5-10 years for competing, but must admit paid less attention today so if any update to that would be interested in reading.*

I think the manager decision will be a huge indicator of ambition, if they go after a Conte/Zidane then that to me indicates they are going to go for it.  No way Conte takes us on without guarentees of big spending.  I think the more likely scenario is Howe, or Favre and that to me indicates a longer term plan.

As for all the other talk about the morality of it, and if as a fan we should be ashamed or answerable for any of it. I agree in an ideal world, they wouldn’t be anywhere near our club (hell in an ideal world, I’d own it) but the reality is now they do, so after it settles down I’ll be looking at NUST to positively engage and challenge the owners, I’ll be looking at the PL and other owners to do the same.  Maybe it’ll make absolutely zero difference but if we can influence them in anyway then hopefully there will be a slither of positivity.
		
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I suppose it depends on how you interpret Amanda Staveley’s words, this is from one interview:

“Of course we have the same ambitions as Manchester City and PSG in terms of trophies, obviously. But it will take time.

Do we want to win the Premier League in 5-10 years? Yes.”

So to win it at the minimum, you’d have to be competitive in at least 2 years before the 5 and at the maximum 10, I’d imagine a few frustrations.

But after 14yrs of Ashley, 10yrs is a doddle.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 9, 2021)

Seems there are some very upset people in some club boardrooms today…..The cynic in me says it might be self interest but as the clubs mentioned are some of those who were involved in the ESL project let's be charitable and assume their concerns are genuine. 😂

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ivals.html


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 9, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Seems there are some very upset people in some club boardrooms today…..The cynic in me says it might be self interest but as the clubs mentioned are some of those who were involved in the ESL project let's be charitable and assume their concerns are genuine. 😂

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ivals.html

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It’s not surprising tbh - morals left the sport a long time ago 

If it was just one person who was buying the club then I wouldn’t expect the club to have concerns but being state owned and also the state that’s involved will not sit will for some - it may affect the image of the league and club just like it does with other sports when Saudi gets involved but it is what it is and there has always been plenty of hypocrisy around the sport . Stavely has spent the good part of a decade trying to buy a club - finally did it. Would like to know what the Premier Leagues - fit and proper owners test is thoughb


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 9, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Seems there are some very upset people in some club boardrooms today…..The cynic in me says it might be self interest but as the clubs mentioned are some of those who were involved in the ESL project let's be charitable and assume their concerns are genuine. 😂

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ivals.html

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😂😂 Brilliant, Russian, American, Chinese money = good, Saudi money = bad (unless it’s only a little bit of Saudi money then that’s ok). 

Definitely genuine concerns🤔


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## Fade and Die (Oct 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not surprising tbh - morals left the sport a long time ago

If it was just one person who was buying the club then I wouldn’t expect the club to have concerns but being state owned and also the state that’s involved will not sit will for some - it may affect the image of the league and club just like it does with other sports when Saudi gets involved but it is what it is and there has always been plenty of hypocrisy around the sport . *Stavely* has spent the good part of a decade trying to buy a club - finally did it. Would like to know what the Premier Leagues - fit and proper owners test is thoughb
		
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Stavely is an interesting character, I watched her talk about Newcastle as if she has supported them all her life.... this from her bio….

Staveley was involved in Sheikh Mansour's £210 million purchase of Manchester City F.C. through the Abu Dhabi United Group, a transaction reportedly worth £10 million in commission to PCP Capital Partners. 

At the same time Staveley was involved in extended negotiations by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum's Dubai International Capital to buy a 49 per cent stake in Liverpool Football Club, although the deal, which would have given Staveley a place on the club's board, eventually foundered,

Top Geordie fan !


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## GB72 (Oct 9, 2021)

The clubs who complain loudest will be those who have seen their future plans possibly go up in smoke. Another big spender at the top of the league (if they make it that far) means that your clubs like Arsenal and Spurs may well be playing for one Europa League spot with the rest of the team's without bottomless finances and are kissing goodbye to any dreams of getting back in the Champions League


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 9, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Stavely is an interesting character, I watched her talk about Newcastle as if she has supported them all her life.... this from her bio….

Staveley was involved in Sheikh Mansour's £210 million purchase of Manchester City F.C. through the Abu Dhabi United Group, a transaction reportedly worth £10 million in commission to PCP Capital Partners.

At the same time Staveley was involved in extended negotiations by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum's Dubai International Capital to buy a 49 per cent stake in Liverpool Football Club, although the deal, which would have given Staveley a place on the club's board, eventually foundered,

Top Geordie fan !
		
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Yep that’s her - been around for a while trying to get the Middle East consortiums into football clubs and getting a piece of the pie for herself - seems very cold and calculating but clearly works 



GB72 said:



			The clubs who complain loudest will be those who have seen their future plans possibly go up in smoke. Another big spender at the top of the league (if they make it that far) means that your clubs like Arsenal and Spurs may well be playing for one Europa League spot with the rest of the team's without bottomless finances and are kissing goodbye to any dreams of getting back in the Champions League
		
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I believe all 19 clubs have expressed concerns about the takeover


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 9, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Stavely is an interesting character, I watched her talk about Newcastle as if she has supported them all her life.... this from her bio….

Staveley was involved in Sheikh Mansour's £210 million purchase of Manchester City F.C. through the Abu Dhabi United Group, a transaction reportedly worth £10 million in commission to PCP Capital Partners. 

At the same time Staveley was involved in extended negotiations by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum's Dubai International Capital to buy a 49 per cent stake in Liverpool Football Club, although the deal, which would have given Staveley a place on the club's board, eventually foundered,

Top Geordie fan !
		
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For 10% commission on a deal I'd talk whatever cobblers was required as well 🤑🤣. 

Had to laugh on Thursday. R5 a presenter was talking to the host of the next show about the deal.

'You are a Middlesbrough fan, you must be pleased how this will benefit the whole region'
'No, I'm not pleased, how will it benefit anyone in Middlesbrough?'
'Surely it will?'
At this point the co presenter, a football fan pipes up, 'has the wealth of Man City's owners benefited anyone in Liverpool? Are Liverpool fans happy about City doing well?'
Cue silence then 'errrm, no'. 

It was both funny and a painful at the same time.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 9, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Stavely is an interesting character, I watched her talk about Newcastle as if she has supported them all her life.... this from her bio….

Staveley was involved in Sheikh Mansour's £210 million purchase of Manchester City F.C. through the Abu Dhabi United Group, a transaction reportedly worth £10 million in commission to PCP Capital Partners.

At the same time Staveley was involved in extended negotiations by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum's Dubai International Capital to buy a 49 per cent stake in Liverpool Football Club, although the deal, which would have given Staveley a place on the club's board, eventually foundered,

Top Geordie fan !
		
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As a Newcastle fan I think she’s always been quite honest with us about the fact she ‘fell in love’ with the club in 2017(?) when invited to a Newcastle Liverpool game by Rafa.  I don’t believe she’s ever claimed to be a life long fan, or a geordie at heart or any other nonsense you see being spouted the last few days by the press.

It sounds like all 19 clubs have complained, and I’d expect nothing less, it’ll be interesting to see if they stick to their guns and become the moral guardians of football when they are presented with a sizeable transfer fee for one of there own players. Or will they refuse to do business with us? I think I know what way I’ll bet on that one.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 9, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Stavely is an interesting character, I watched her talk about Newcastle as if she has supported them all her life.... this from her bio….

Staveley was involved in Sheikh Mansour's £210 million purchase of Manchester City F.C. through the Abu Dhabi United Group, a transaction reportedly worth £10 million in commission to PCP Capital Partners.

At the same time Staveley was involved in extended negotiations by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum's Dubai International Capital to buy a 49 per cent stake in Liverpool Football Club, although the deal, which would have given Staveley a place on the club's board, eventually foundered,

Top Geordie fan !
		
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Or, just maybe we could describe her as someone who’s good at her job and makes money for her Company.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Or, just maybe we could describe her as someone who’s good at her job and makes money for her Company.

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I'd quite like to be £1 behind her 😄. She is razor sharp and when you consider she is a female operating in a particularly male centric part of the world it makes her even more impressive  (in business terms. The rest is a different debate)


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe all 19 clubs have expressed concerns about the takeover
		
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Of course they have. Those at the top will see it as another club that will be in a position to challenge for one of the CL places, and those at the bottom will see it as one less club that could get relegated. It's all about money. The top clubs don't want to lose the CL money by missing the top 4 and the bottom clubs don't want to lose the PL money by getting relegated.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 9, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Of course they have. Those at the top will see it as another club that will be in a position to challenge for one of the CL places, and those at the bottom will see it as one less club that could get relegated. It's all about money. The top clubs don't want to lose the CL money by missing the top 4 and the bottom clubs don't want to lose the PL money by getting relegated.
		
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Or they have issues with a club being owned by a state 🤷‍♂️ With the principal owner recently ordering the assassination of journalist


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## Tashyboy (Oct 9, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Stavely is an interesting character, I watched her talk about Newcastle as if she has supported them all her life.... this from her bio….

Staveley was involved in Sheikh Mansour's £210 million purchase of Manchester City F.C. through the Abu Dhabi United Group, a transaction reportedly worth £10 million in commission to PCP Capital Partners.

At the same time Staveley was involved in extended negotiations by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum's Dubai International Capital to buy a 49 per cent stake in Liverpool Football Club, although the deal, which would have given Staveley a place on the club's board, eventually foundered,

Top Geordie fan !
		
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i don’t know her but I like her, if she was involved in the purchase of City.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or they have issues with a club being owned by a state 🤷‍♂️ With the principal owner recently ordering the assassination of journalist
		
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Nope, imo it's all about money. The top clubs don't want another challenger. The attempt to form the European Super League with no relegation shows that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 9, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Nope, imo it's all about money. The top clubs don't want another challenger. The attempt to form the European Super League with no relegation shows that.
		
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Exactly, other Clubs have large sponsorship deals with nasty State owned Companies, but somehow that level of nasty State investment is OK, just not ownership.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or they have issues with a club being owned by a state 🤷‍♂️ With the principal owner recently ordering the assassination of journalist
		
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Seriously Phil???
Have a day off pal,there’s more to life 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 9, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Nope, imo it's all about money. The top clubs don't want another challenger. The attempt to form the European Super League with no relegation shows that.
		
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Suspect there will be a good percentage of the thought being about the level of funds but with financial restrictions in place it’s not a huge game changer - the human rights issues and the assassination will be a huge stain at the moment with the Premier League wiping their hands of it with the “he won’t be running the club” statement when we know it’s nonsense. But all 19 clubs getting involved for me says it’s not just the money that’s the issue


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 9, 2021)

Good to see Southgate making wholesale changes for tonight, I know it’s only Andorra, but hopefully this lot will take their chance and get a bucketful:

England XI: Johnstone; Trippier (c), Stones, Coady, Chilwell; Ward-Prowse, Saka, Foden; Lingard, Sancho, Abraham


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## Cherry13 (Oct 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Suspect there will be a good percentage of the thought being about the level of funds but with financial restrictions in place it’s not a huge game changer - the human rights issues and the assassination will be a huge stain at the moment with the Premier League wiping their hands of it with the “he won’t be running the club” statement when we know it’s nonsense. But all 19 clubs getting involved for me says it’s not just the money that’s the issue
		
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It’s not just the money, I’d agree with that.  I think it’s also they were left out of the decision/boys club and that’s put a few noses out of joint. But let’s be honest, the PL had every right after the actions of some earlier this year (and the PL also followed their own policies for a change). 
The clubs don’t give a monkeys about human rights, if they did they wouldn’t deal with many of the sponsors they do.  They are worried about their respective seat at the table and that’s it. 
Let’s not pretend as well that it was all 19 clubs individually complaining, as with everything the PL does it’s a concerted effort and coordinated.  BEin rights renewal was the first time 1 club has went against the popular vote, and oh yeh that was Newcastle. 

Not sure why you think financial restrictions are relevant, if they choose too they could comfortably spend ~£500m over the next two or three windows and be no where near breaching any regulation.  I think the spending will be more considered that that, and likely a lot less, but that isn’t because of FFP.  They certainly haven’t bought the club to keep it ‘ticking over’.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 9, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			It’s not just the money, I’d agree with that.  I think it’s also they were left out of the decision/boys club and that’s put a few noses out of joint. But let’s be honest, the PL had every right after the actions of some earlier this year (and the PL also followed their own policies for a change).
The clubs don’t give a monkeys about human rights, if they did they wouldn’t deal with many of the sponsors they do.  They are worried about their respective seat at the table and that’s it.
Let’s not pretend as well that it was all 19 clubs individually complaining, as with everything the PL does it’s a concerted effort and coordinated.  BEin rights renewal was the first time 1 club has went against the popular vote, and oh yeh that was Newcastle.

Not sure why you think financial restrictions are relevant, if they choose too they could comfortably spend ~£500m over the next two or three windows and be no where near breaching any regulation.  I think the spending will be more considered that that, and likely a lot less, but that isn’t because of FFP.  They certainly haven’t bought the club to keep it ‘ticking over’.
		
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It’s not just human rights though - as well as all the other equality issues , 

Have no idea what other sponsership other clubs have but right now the new chairman is the man who authorised the killing of a journalist who was just practicing free speech and who was exposing issues within the country - that just doesn’t sit well at all. They claim he will have no involvement in the club yet it’s his money being used and he is the chairman of the Saudi PIF - for me it’s crossed a line irrelevant of how much money they have - that’s secondary to the actions of the state and under his orders 

Also how can they spend £500mil over the next three windows without breaking FFP when they clubs last accounts had them making a loss of £22mil ?

The club will make a loss again for the accounts up to May 2021 as well and pre Covid they were making around £30mil profit

How can they break even over a three year period with a spend of £500mil ? Where does the £500mil come from - or is there an expectation that the club will be sponsered by Aramco to the tune of £500mil


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## IanM (Oct 9, 2021)

I guess a good dig around the (real)  books and characters at several clubs would turn up some interesting stories.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 9, 2021)

IanM said:



			I guess a good dig around the (real)  books and characters at several clubs would turn up some interesting stories.  

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You mean like the Saudi State owned phone Company who have dealings with Utd since 2010 or the MG China contract LPool have that is State owned or the dodgy Russian Billionaires Everton and Chelsea have?😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 9, 2021)

IanM said:



			I guess a good dig around the (real)  books and characters at several clubs would turn up some interesting stories.  

Click to expand...

There are no doubt some sponsership deals with some companies where those companies have had issues - Adidas , Nike etc have all had working issues 

But I very much doubt that is anything that comes close to the clubs new “chairman” ordering someone to be killed to stop them exposing issues within the state and the state itself owning the club


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



*You mean like the Saudi State owned phone Company who have dealings with Utd since 2010 or the MG China contract LPool have that is State owned or the dodgy Russian Billionaires Everton and Chelsea have?*😂😂
		
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Yes, you've reminded us on more than one occasion.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not just human rights though - as well as all the other equality issues ,

Have no idea what other sponsership other clubs have but right now the new chairman is the man who *authorised the killing of a journalist *who was just practicing free speech and who was exposing issues within the country - that just doesn’t sit well at all. They claim he will have no involvement in the club yet it’s his money being used and he is the chairman of the Saudi PIF - for me it’s crossed a line irrelevant of how much money they have - that’s secondary to the actions of the state and under his orders

Also how can they spend £500mil over the next three windows without breaking FFP when they clubs last accounts had them making a loss of £22mil ?

The club will make a loss again for the accounts up to May 2021 as well and pre Covid they were making around £30mil profit

How can they break even over a three year period with a spend of £500mil ? Where does the £500mil come from - or is there an expectation that the club will be sponsered by Aramco to the tune of £500mil
		
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Is this factual? Because apparently he denies it,which obviously he would.


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## AmandaJR (Oct 9, 2021)

Phil Foden...he really is different gravy...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 9, 2021)

Slime said:



			Yes, you've reminded us on more than one occasion.
		
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It’s for the hard of reading mate, as some still seem in denial.🤷‍♂️


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## pokerjoke (Oct 9, 2021)

That’s a straight red on Coady let alone a yellow.
Need a stronger ref so blatant


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## 4LEX (Oct 9, 2021)

IanM said:



			I guess a good dig around the (real)  books and characters at several clubs would turn up some interesting stories.  

Click to expand...

Goggle Stan Flashman and Ken Richardson from the old days. I think Flashman sacked Barry Fry over 30 times during his time at Barnet and used to threaten to break the players legs if they lost


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## Cherry13 (Oct 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not just human rights though - as well as all the other equality issues ,

Have no idea what other sponsership other clubs have but right now the new chairman is the man who authorised the killing of a journalist who was just practicing free speech and who was exposing issues within the country - that just doesn’t sit well at all. They claim he will have no involvement in the club yet it’s his money being used and he is the chairman of the Saudi PIF - for me it’s crossed a line irrelevant of how much money they have - that’s secondary to the actions of the state and under his orders

Also how can they spend £500mil over the next three windows without breaking FFP when they clubs last accounts had them making a loss of £22mil ?

The club will make a loss again for the accounts up to May 2021 as well and pre Covid they were making around £30mil profit

How can they break even over a three year period with a spend of £500mil ? Where does the £500mil come from - or is there an expectation that the club will be sponsered by Aramco to the tune of £500mil
		
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Not sure if you think MBS is the new chairman… he isn’t, but again we can go round in circles arguing that.  There are accusations regarding the actual chairman also, but again as far as I am aware unproven. 

As for spending ~£500m. The below is from price of football:
Whilst Mike Ashley is not popular In Newcastle, his legacy for new owners is a profitable club. In last 3 yrs profit £38m, factor in FFP adjustments for academy etc of about £50m & this means the new owners have an allowable FFP loss of £105m plus £88m= £190m+ to play with.  The latest accounts aren’t included in that, neither are the PL adjustments for C19.  So let’s call it £200m to stop going around in circles. 
These figures are based on current commercial arrangements, Soorts direct have paid £1m per year to be the main sponsors of the stadium etc, so without even considering outlandish deals similar to etihad, it’s not inconceivable that yes they will grow significantly.  

However, even if none of that was to happen and we carry on with exactly the same arrangements we have now, transfer deals are still amortised over the life of a contract. So a £100m deal over five years is still only £20m this year (yes salaries also need to be paid etc) but with a longer term plan/commitment in place I’m pretty sure the club will be more commercially sound and easily cover those salaries.


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## larmen (Oct 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Now looking at a football side - all the talk is about them now winning the league within 5 years - imo I don’t see them doing that and maybe not for a while
		
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Chelsea did it in 2 years. City needed 4, but at that point there was already more money in the game that the boost wasn’t effective that quickly. Newcastle might take even longer as there are competing against the above billionaire funded clubs.


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2021)

The referee in the England game is beyond abysmal ...................... she's so bad it's almost funny!
Not helped by her colleagues, either.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 9, 2021)

Decent win, some good performances, shocked they let Grealish run that far with the ball before he scored.


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## IanM (Oct 9, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Goggle Stan Flashman and Ken Richardson from the old days. I think Flashman sacked Barry Fry over 30 times during his time at Barnet and used to threaten to break the players legs if they lost 

Click to expand...

I’m old enough to know all about them… you need to read up about a bloke called George Borg… gives Fry a run for his money!


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 9, 2021)

How much is Foden worth?🤯


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Phil Foden...he really is different gravy...

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what do you think this is, a football thread :O


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## Golfmmad (Oct 9, 2021)

Slime said:



			The referee in the England game is beyond abysmal ...................... she's so bad it's almost funny!
Not helped by her colleagues, either.
		
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Surprised you say that, I thought she controlled the game well.


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## Swingalot (Oct 9, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			How much is Foden worth?🤯
		
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Saka is better apparently....


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			Saka is better apparently....
		
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says who lol

Saka is a top class youngster and worth a decent chunk but no Foden


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 10, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			Saka is better apparently....
		
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😂😂😂yeah good one 👍🏻


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## pokerjoke (Oct 10, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			How much is Foden worth?🤯
		
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Going on last nights game

Sancho £50m
Grealish £50m
Saka £50m
Abraham £50m

Foden £150m


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## AmandaJR (Oct 10, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			How much is Foden worth?🤯
		
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Priceless...the world can keep its hands off!


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 10, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Priceless...the world can keep its hands off!
		
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Not be long till he’s in a Newcastle shirt 😂


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## AmandaJR (Oct 10, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not be long till he’s in a Newcastle shirt 😂
		
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Ha ha ha. Luckily he loves City so can't see anything tempting him away for a good while...


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## Fade and Die (Oct 10, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Ha ha ha. Luckily he loves City so can't see anything tempting him away for a good while...
		
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Like Messi “loved” Barca? 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 10, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Like Messi “loved” Barca? 😁
		
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😂

Learned a long time ago that money trumps loyalty 

When Pep becomes Newcastle manager Foden will follow 😁


Foden is hell of a player - can’t see him leaving City for a long time. I still can’t fathom why City paid £100mil for Grealish when they already had Foden for that exact role - and Foden is 10 times the player Grealish is


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## Kellfire (Oct 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂

Learned a long time ago that money trumps loyalty

When Pep becomes Newcastle manager Foden will follow 😁


Foden is hell of a player - can’t see him leaving City for a long time. I still can’t fathom why City paid £100mil for Grealish when they already had Foden for that exact role - *and Foden is 10 times the player Grealish is *

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Love a bit of hyperbole on a Sunday morning.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 10, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Love a bit of hyperbole on a Sunday morning.
		
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Whilst Phil is exaggerating and its not like him, I'd rather have foden over grealish.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 10, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Love a bit of hyperbole on a Sunday morning.
		
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It’s a saying , a phrase to mean that one person or thing is significantly better than the other - it doesn’t mean someone it literally “ten times better” 🤦‍♂️

Just one day you won’t post looking to create something 🤦‍♂️


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## Kellfire (Oct 10, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Whilst Phil is exaggerating and its not like him, I'd rather have foden over grealish.
		
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I’d probably just about agree but the suggestion that Grealish isn’t a top quality player is ridiculous. He’s proven it over a much longer period than Foden who still has to deal with the pressure of when he’s starting pretty much constantly in City’s biggest games over a couple of seasons, plus Foden has always had a quality team around him whereas Grealish was the main man. Both fantastic players. Grealish would flourish off the left for Liverpool.


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## Kellfire (Oct 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a saying , a phrase to mean that one person or thing is significantly better than the other - it doesn’t mean someone it literally “ten times better” 🤦‍♂️

Just one day you won’t post looking to create something 🤦‍♂️
		
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One day you’ll post something sensible and not rely on hyperbole to make a point.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 10, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			One day you’ll post something sensible and not rely on hyperbole to make a point.
		
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There was no hyperbole- as stated if it’s a saying 🙄

Foden is significantly better than Grealish -Grealish is a very good player who is prob a starter at a mid table team and sits on the bench at the top 4 CL team - Foden has the ability to the best in the Prem and maybe even in Europe - he is that good. England should build the team around him. Grealish was perfect for Villa where as it wasn’t that long ago I thought he would flourish moving to a bigger club 

Hope that’s clear enough for you to understand now.


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## Kellfire (Oct 10, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There was no hyperbole- as stated if it’s a saying 🙄

Foden is significantly better than Grealish -Grealish is a very good player who is prob a starter at a mid table team and sits on the bench at the top 4 CL team - Foden has the ability to the best in the Prem and maybe even in Europe - he is that good. England should build the team around him. Grealish was perfect for Villa where as it wasn’t that long ago I thought he would flourish moving to a bigger club

Hope that’s clear enough for you to understand now.
		
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I don’t know what this means but I bet it’s a bilgillion wrong.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 10, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I’d probably just about agree but the suggestion that Grealish isn’t a top quality player is ridiculous. He’s proven it over a much longer period than Foden who still has to deal with the pressure of when he’s starting pretty much constantly in City’s biggest games over a couple of seasons, plus Foden has always had a quality team around him whereas Grealish was the main man. Both fantastic players. *Grealish would flourish off the left for Liverpool.*

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He'd be well behind Origi in our team😁


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## Kellfire (Oct 10, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He'd be well behind Origi in our team😁
		
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You can’t spell origin without Origi. 😎


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## AmandaJR (Oct 10, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Like Messi “loved” Barca? 😁
		
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I'd take 21 years service and he leaves when his best is behind him


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 10, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Like Messi “loved” Barca? 😁
		
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To be fair, he didn't have a choice in the end. Slightly complicated but something about rules in Spain not allowing new contracts being significantly less than the previous one. This meant the contract was still unaffordable. I thought the same as you at first but had this pointed out. You can Google it for the actual details but this is the gist.

As for Foden, he was pure class last night. Irrespective of the opposition you still have to do it.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 10, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			I’d probably just about agree but the suggestion that Grealish isn’t a top quality player is ridiculous. He’s proven it over a much longer period than Foden who still has to deal with the pressure of when he’s starting pretty much constantly in City’s biggest games over a couple of seasons, plus Foden has always had a quality team around him whereas Grealish was the main man. Both fantastic players. Grealish would flourish off the left for Liverpool.
		
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## Slime (Oct 10, 2021)

?


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2021)

Having watched the Nations League final last night, the inevitable happened. The rule makers interpretation of the offside law is embarrassing. Seen one or two incidents over the last year, but the issue has largely been brushed under the carpet. Now it had a major impact in a big match (if the Nations League is considered "big"), which will probably force their hand to either change it quietly, or make some excuse thinking fans are naive. I wonder how the Spanish media have discussed it today?

How Mbappe is not offside is an absolute joke. The whole point of the offside rule is to ensure forwards do not just stand high up the pitch, the classical school yard poacher. However, the way the officials have applied the law, they can do exactly that, as long as the defending team lose sight of them and they deflect the forward ball to the striker when trying to cut the ball out.


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## larmen (Oct 11, 2021)

For me offside got silly all the way back with passive offside. If we go back to offside is offside and the moment the pass is played then we lose a lot of controversy and it’s easy for all to be on the same page for each play.
No passive becoming active at a later point in the same play, no distracting goalies or defenders, …


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2021)

larmen said:



			For me offside got silly all the way back with passive offside. If we go back to offside is offside and the moment the pass is played then we lose a lot of controversy and it’s easy for all to be on the same page for each play.
No passive becoming active at a later point in the same play, no distracting goalies or defenders, …
		
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I get that point, but I am not an age to really remember what offside was like previously. Was the game not stopped a lot more frequently for players in offside positions, even when the player had clearly no impact on the game. Maybe they were down injured, maybe they were jogging back on the right as play developed on the left, maybe they were tying their shoe lace, etc? In fact, if a player took a corner and stayed near the goal line, then a player headed it in the goal, would it be offside, as the player who took the corner was goalside of the last defender? I can see what it was changed to keep the game moving. But they seem to have gone so far the other way, they are close to just binning offside completely.


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## Swingalot (Oct 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			says who lol

Saka is a top class youngster and worth a decent chunk but no Foden
		
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Unfortunately the England manager. 

Foden started in the first match and was then discarded not be seen again in the Euros......which was nothing short of a disgrace, is nothing short of a disgrace and as we move forward will be looked back on in years to come as a complete shocker. 

The same manager who kept Grealish away from the action as much as he could during the Euros, until he could not hold back anymore and he had to put him on the pitch.....but now we pick him in every game.....as he is not at Villa anymore and is a Man City player......despite showing better form with Villa than he has so far this season with Man City (although I'll admit its not been a long period with his new club)

To cap it off, some say this was all a master stroke by Southgate and that it was his tactical genuis that led to us winning games late on when we finally decided to play some football. 

Pep will build a team around Foden and Grealish and they will be central to that team for years to come. Why? Because they are arguably the best 2 footballers he has at his disposal.....but England during the Euros could not find a perm start for either of them let alone one of them.....SHOCKING!


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Having watched the Nations League final last night, the inevitable happened. The rule makers interpretation of the offside law is embarrassing. Seen one or two incidents over the last year, but the issue has largely been brushed under the carpet. Now it had a major impact in a big match (if the Nations League is considered "big"), which will probably force their hand to either change it quietly, or make some excuse thinking fans are naive. I wonder how the Spanish media have discussed it today?

How Mbappe is not offside is an absolute joke. The whole point of the offside rule is to ensure forwards do not just stand high up the pitch, the classical school yard poacher. However, the way the officials have applied the law, they can do exactly that, as long as the defending team lose sight of them and they deflect the forward ball to the striker when trying to cut the ball out.
		
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I didn't watch the game but I saw footage and clips of Mbappe's goal, and he was absolutely offside. How did they still get that wrong with VAR? Someone said a defender touched it, but when paused as the midfielder passes it, Mbappe was already off so the offside should stand. Or have they changed the rule now??


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## Bdill93 (Oct 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I didn't watch the game but I saw footage and clips of Mbappe's goal, and he was absolutely offside. How did they still get that wrong with VAR? Someone said a defender touched it, but when paused as the midfielder passes it, Mbappe was already off so the offside should stand. Or have they changed the rule now??
		
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Heard earlier that because the defender tried to play the ball - its on......  madness


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Heard earlier that because the defender tried to play the ball - its on......  madness
		
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That's what I mean, but I don't know when that crept into the public consciousness. My understanding was, if the player was already in an offside position when the original pass was played he's still offside. That shouldn't be 'cancelled out' because a defender tried and failed to clear it? As you say, that would be madness. A world where the defender is better off straight up ignoring a player and allowing the pass to go through rather than trying to clear the ball.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That's what I mean, but I don't know when that crept into the public consciousness. My understanding was, if the player was already in an offside position when the original pass was played he's still offside. That shouldn't be 'cancelled out' because a defender tried and failed to clear it? As you say, that would be madness. A world where the defender is better off straight up ignoring a player and allowing the pass to go through rather than trying to clear the ball. 

Click to expand...

EUFA have different offside rules than FIFA - they discussed it during the England game coverage


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			EUFA have different offside rules than FIFA - they discussed it during the England game coverage
		
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What the... that's ridiculous! We're playing the same game aren't we?? Jesus Christ. No wonder the officials struggle in my Sunday League, they probably don't know what rules we're meant to be using.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What the... that's ridiculous! We're playing the same game aren't we?? Jesus Christ. No wonder the officials struggle in my Sunday League, they probably don't know what rules we're meant to be using.
		
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EUFA go in favour of the attacker - Fifa do not


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2021)

It was clarified earlier this year when City scored against Villa and Rodri took the ball off Mings when coming back from an offside position.

Spurs won a penalty a few years back at Anfield when Lovren mishit the ball to Kane who was offside when the ball was played

It’s not offside if an opposing player makes a deliberate attempt to play the ball, a deflection or accidental touch is still offside.

VAR last night decided the contact from the Spaniard was a deliberate attempt to play the ball.


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It was clarified earlier this year when City scored against Villa and Rodri took the ball off Mings when coming back from an offside position.

*Spurs won a penalty a few years back at Anfield when Lovren mishit the ball to Kane who was offside when the ball was played*

It’s not offside if an opposing player makes a deliberate attempt to play the ball, a deflection or accidental touch is still offside.

VAR last night decided the contact from the Spaniard was a deliberate attempt to play the ball.
		
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I think this was slightly different because Lovren made such a hash of it he was deemed to be in full possession of the ball (because he should have controlled it comfortably). But of course I would say that.😆 I wouldn't have objected much if that one had have been given offside. This rule seems daft because in theory someone could just stand offside waiting for a pass and hoping the defender gets a touch on it. It should be if you're offside when your teammates kicks it then you're offside. The defender wouldn't have to try and play it if you weren't there standing offside, it's a silly paradox.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think this was slightly different because made such a hash of it he was deemed to be in full possession of the ball (because he should have controlled it comfortably). But of course I would say that.😆 I wouldn't have objected much if that one had have been given offside. This rule seems daft because in theory someone could just stand offside waiting for a pass and hoping the defender gets a touch on it. It should be if you're offside when your teammates kicks it then you're offside. The defender wouldn't have to try and play it if you weren't there standing offside, it's a silly paradox.
		
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What about the scenario were a player is an offside position and a defender intercepts a pass then cocks up a deliberate backpass.

I agree it’s not clear, but it is intended to give the attack the advantage


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			What about the scenario were a player is an offside position and a defender intercepts a pass then cocks up a deliberate backpass.

I agree it’s not clear, but it is intended to give the attack the advantage
		
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That would be defender error for me. If he actually takes possession of it then it's a new phase of play or whatever they call it now. But I'm talking about ones where a defender is lunging for the ball and gets a tiny nick on it, failing to cut it out - you can't let that cancel out an offside player, it's insane.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think this was slightly different because Lovren made such a hash of it he was deemed to be in full possession of the ball (because he should have controlled it comfortably). But of course I would say that.😆 I wouldn't have objected much if that one had have been given offside. This rule seems daft because in theory someone could just stand offside waiting for a pass and hoping the defender gets a touch on it. It should be if you're offside when your teammates kicks it then you're offside. The defender wouldn't have to try and play it if you weren't there standing offside, it's a silly paradox.
		
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Your absolutely right to be stunned. The football lawmakers do not even understand the original concept of offside, not undertand the game from a footballers point of view, that they interpret last nights incident to be onside. The Spanish defence played a good line, so that Mbappe was in an offside position. The Spanish defender did the right thing in trying to cut out the forward pass, as he cannot of course be sure if Mbappe or any other French attacker times their run perfectly. Had the defender completely missed the ball, it would have been offside. But, as he got a slight touch, and deliberately tried to get a touch, then suddenly Mbappe is onside. It is crazy, ridiculous and shameful that the lawmakers get it so wrong. But, there you go, they seem to do that a lot.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			What about the scenario were a player is an offside position and a defender intercepts a pass then cocks up a deliberate backpass.

I agree it’s not clear, but it is intended to give the attack the advantage
		
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To me, that would be onside. If a defender has either been judged to have been in control of the ball, or played a controlled one touch pass backwards, then the attacker should be onside. However, if the defender has not yet got fully under control of the ball, or try to intercept a through ball, then it should be the same phase of play and offside. In some occasions, the ref may need to make a call as to whether he thinks the defender was under control or not, however most of the time it should be fairly obvious.


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Your absolutely right to be stunned. The football lawmakers do not even understand the original concept of offside, not undertand the game from a footballers point of view, that they interpret last nights incident to be onside. The Spanish defence played a good line, so that Mbappe was in an offside position. The Spanish defender did the right thing in trying to cut out the forward pass, as he cannot of course be sure if Mbappe or any other French attacker times their run perfectly. Had the defender completely missed the ball, it would have been offside. But, as he got a slight touch, and deliberately tried to get a touch, then suddenly Mbappe is onside. It is crazy, ridiculous and shameful that the lawmakers get it so wrong. But, there you go, they seem to do that a lot.
		
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Yeah. One of the main reasons I watch a hell of a lot less football now than I used to.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Your absolutely right to be stunned. The football lawmakers do not even understand the original concept of offside, not undertand the game from a footballers point of view, that they interpret last nights incident to be onside. The Spanish defence played a good line, so that Mbappe was in an offside position. The Spanish defender did the right thing in trying to cut out the forward pass, as he cannot of course be sure if Mbappe or any other French attacker times their run perfectly. Had the defender completely missed the ball, it would have been offside. But, as he got a slight touch, and deliberately tried to get a touch, then suddenly Mbappe is onside. It is crazy, ridiculous and shameful that the lawmakers get it so wrong. But, there you go, they seem to do that a lot.
		
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I honestly see this as a good rule not a bad one. More goals overall. 

We (football fans) all moaned when attackers were having goals ruled out - now they've addressed it in some competitions, we are moaning the guys offisde......

5 years ago we moaned that refs needed help/ VAR.

We will always moan is the moral of the story.


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			To me, that would be onside. If a defender has either been judged to have been in control of the ball, or played a controlled one touch pass backwards, then the attacker should be onside. However, if the defender has not yet got fully under control of the ball, or try to intercept a through ball, then it should be the same phase of play and offside. In some occasions, the ref may need to make a call as to whether he thinks the defender was under control or not,* however most of the time it should be fairly obvious*.
		
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Definitely obvious on VAR!


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I honestly see this as a good rule not a bad one. More goals overall.

We (football fans) all moaned when attackers were having goals ruled out - now they've addressed it in some competitions, we are moaning the guys offisde......

5 years ago we moaned that refs needed help/ VAR.

We will always moan is the moral of the story.
		
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lol, what? Just scrap the offside rule altogether then? Loads of goals. Get rid of goalkeepers as well actually. More goals!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			To me, that would be onside. If a defender has either been judged to have been in control of the ball, or played a controlled one touch pass backwards, then the attacker should be onside. However, if the defender has not yet got fully under control of the ball, or try to intercept a through ball, then it should be the same phase of play and offside. In some occasions, the ref may need to make a call as to whether he thinks the defender was under control or not, however most of the time it should be fairly obvious.
		
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It comes down to the word deliberate and its interpretation by the Referee, surely the clarification has been made to reduce inconsistencey by Officials? There’s been nothing worse than a Ref giving a decision one week and another Ref the week after seeing it differently.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That would be defender error for me. If he actually takes possession of it then it's a new phase of play or whatever they call it now. But I'm talking about ones where a defender is lunging for the ball and gets a tiny nick on it, failing to cut it out - you can't let that cancel out an offside player, it's insane.
		
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So if a defender goes to trap a ball and he mis-controls it, surely that’s defender error and you are suggesting he’s allowed gets away with.


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			lol, what? Just scrap the offside rule altogether then? Loads of goals. Get rid of goalkeepers as well actually. More goals!
		
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Before you know it someone will be suggesting bigger goals, just like bigger golf holes


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			So if a defender goes to trap a ball and he mis-controls it, surely that’s defender error and you are suggesting he’s allowed gets away with.
		
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That's offside as well. The only time it wouldn't be offside is if the defender consciously kicks it back to the forward not realising he was there. As Swango said, it will be the ref's interpretation from the VAR replay, but you just cannot allow situations like that Spain/France one. Before long you'll have defenders hesitating to actually clear the ball just in case they only get a toe on it which plays someone offside. Then it will become commonplace like players trying to tackle with their hands behind their backs, which we've all accepted as normal now after some of the farcical handballs of the last five years.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I honestly see this as a good rule not a bad one. More goals overall.

We (football fans) all moaned when attackers were having goals ruled out - now they've addressed it in some competitions, we are moaning the guys offisde......

5 years ago we moaned that refs needed help/ VAR.

We will always moan is the moral of the story.
		
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That is not a great argument in being in favour of this interpretation. Unless you are in favour of scrapping offside altogether? You could also ignore any accidental handballs by attackers (even with outstretched arms), but give penalties when the defender does the same. More goals after all.

It may sound fantastic, until your team loses an important match because of it. Had England lost the World Cup final on such a goal, I can imagine the reaction over here. Not a good one. Sure, if England won on the same type of goal, there'd be celebrations, but there would be at least a little embarrassment from decent fans that they got away with one based on a dodgy rule.

Refs did need help. They got it in VAR. The reason it was criticised is that its use was appalling. It also resulted in the rules being changed on a weekly basis. Why? Because VAR or not, there will always be inconsistent decisions, subjectivity will always play a role, whether it be by the guy on the field or the guy watching it on the monitor.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That's offside as well. The only time it wouldn't be offside is if the defender consciously kicks it back to the forward not realising he was there. As Swango said, it will be the ref's interpretation from the VAR replay, but you just cannot allow situations like that Spain/France one. Before long you'll have defenders hesitating to actually clear the ball just in case they only get a toe on it which plays someone offside. Then it will become commonplace like players trying to tackle with their hands behind their backs, which we've all accepted as normal now after some of the farcical handballs of the last five years.
		
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So a defender mis-controls a ball, you say offside and an attacker mis-times his run and that’s offside, that is favouring the defence and only punishing one player for making a mistake.

As it stands it’s only not offside if the defending player makes a deliberate attempt to play the ball, whether he only reaches it with his toe or whatever is irrelevant.

This isn’t new this season, this has been in a couple of years now, the only clarification, change, has been since the Villa/City game.

I take it the Watkins goal in this one you disagree with?


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## Bdill93 (Oct 11, 2021)

At least its a fast decision though. No one liked the tiny tight lines they used to the minutest detail when checking for offsides.. no one likes this. But this is faster


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			So a defender mis-controls a ball, you say offside and an attacker mis-times his run and that’s offside, that is favouring the defence and only punishing one player for making a mistake.

As it stands it’s only not offside if the defending player makes a deliberate attempt to play the ball, whether he only reaches it with his toe or whatever is irrelevant.

This isn’t new this season, this has been in a couple of years now, the only clarification, change, has been since the Villa/City game.
		
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Do you think Mbappe's goal being onside was acceptable then? If he's offside when the ball is played he should be offside. That's all there is it to it. I don't even know what case you're arguing for.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 11, 2021)

Just do away with offside. Problem solved.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			lol, what? Just scrap the offside rule altogether then? Loads of goals. Get rid of goalkeepers as well actually. More goals!
		
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Bit OTT. This is someone attempting to play at a ball at least. There is intent there. 




Swango1980 said:



			That is not a great argument in being in favour of this interpretation. Unless you are in favour of scrapping offside altogether? You could also ignore any accidental handballs by attackers (even with outstretched arms), but give penalties when the defender does the same. More goals after all.

It may sound fantastic, until your team loses an important match because of it. Had England lost the World Cup final on such a goal, I can imagine the reaction over here. Not a good one. Sure, if England won on the same type of goal, there'd be celebrations, but there would be at least a little embarrassment from decent fans that they got away with one based on a dodgy rule.

Refs did need help. They got it in VAR. The reason it was criticised is that its use was appalling. It also resulted in the rules being changed on a weekly basis. Why? Because VAR or not, there will always be inconsistent decisions, subjectivity will always play a role, whether it be by the guy on the field or the guy watching it on the monitor.
		
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You could ignore handballs down to the elbow, not a bad idea! 

Quite an overdramatic response to me liking an actual approved EUFA rule tho.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			At least its a fast decision though. No one liked the tiny tight lines they used to the minutest detail when checking for offsides.. no one likes this. But this is faster 

Click to expand...

I believe they've improved the "lines" issue this season, as they seem to have a larger margin for error. Certainly not been a major talking point this season as it has in the past.

However, I wonder how fast it will be when the defender may or may not get the slightest of touches on the ball. VAR will be rolling back and forth for minutes to see if the direction / movement of the ball changes.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2021)

Very good thread here discussing the Mbappe goal and shows a few others over the last couple of seasons.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1447303022258933760


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## Bdill93 (Oct 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I believe they've improved the "lines" issue this season, as they seem to have a larger margin for error. Certainly not been a major talking point this season as it has in the past.

However, I wonder how fast it will be when the defender may or may not get the slightest of touches on the ball. VAR will be rolling back and forth for minutes to see if the direction / movement of the ball changes.
		
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What margin for error? Its either on or off isnt it? Thats what peoples point of view here seems to be? 

Im in favour of a rule that doesnt ruin moments of pure euphoria in the stadium.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			What margin for error? Its either on or off isnt it? Thats what peoples point of view here seems to be?

Im in favour of a rule that doesnt ruin moments of pure euphoria in the stadium.
		
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The margin of error in the two lines. Yes, you can say it is either onside or offside. But, the technology is not capable of determining this in every incident, as there are not enough frames in the video. Therefore, there should be less debate whether someone's toenail is onside or offside, as you said, no one liked it.

VAR has already ruined the euphoria in the stadium, and at home. I still do not celebrate goals at home, as I await VAR confirmation


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 11, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1447525637149708290


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## Jimaroid (Oct 11, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Very good thread here discussing the Mbappe goal and shows a few others over the last couple of seasons.
		
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His review threads on VAR decisions (or lack thereof) each week are generally an excellent read. They’ve helped me see how some controversial decisions were made both rightly and wrongly.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			His review threads on VAR decisions (or lack thereof) each week are generally an excellent read. They’ve helped me see how some controversial decisions were made both rightly and wrongly.
		
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Agreed, he’s one of the decent ones to follow on twitter.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2021)

Nine changes, as expected for tonight:

Hopefully see us score a boat load against this lot.

Pickford; Walker, Stones, Mings, Shaw; Rice, Foden, Mount; Grealish, Sterling, Kane.


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## Beezerk (Oct 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Nine changes, as expected for tonight:

Hopefully see us score a boat load against this lot.

Pickford; Walker, Stones, Mings, Shaw; Rice, Foden, Mount; Grealish, Sterling, Kane.
		
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Finally, playing the talent rather than two holding midfielders.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Finally, playing the talent rather than two holding midfielders.
		
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Hopefully it’ll work, they can go 433 or 442 or even 226


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## fundy (Oct 12, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Finally, playing the talent rather than two holding midfielders.
		
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only until Phillips is fit again


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## Orikoru (Oct 12, 2021)

What a poor decision. Shaw is clearing the ball comfortably and the lad ducks and sticks his head into a dangerous area. I don't get why that always has to be 'high foot' - don't stick your head on someone's boot! Nonsense decision.


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## Reemul (Oct 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What a poor decision. Shaw is clearing the ball comfortably and the lad ducks and sticks his head into a dangerous area. I don't get why that always has to be 'high foot' - don't stick your head on someone's boot! Nonsense decision.
		
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Absolutely stupid clearance by Shaw, like moronic really. England looking pretty crap here and Kane is definitely not all there at the moment


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## Swango1980 (Oct 12, 2021)

Reemul said:



			Absolutely stupid clearance by Shaw, like moronic really. England looking pretty crap here and Kane is definitely not all there at the moment
		
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How should he clear it?


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## Orikoru (Oct 12, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			How should he clear it?
		
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I even thought the way he flicked at it was intentional in order to bring his foot down quicker and avoid contact.

It has just been pointed out to me as well that the decision for high foot would actually be an indirect free kick inside the box. So to give a penalty the referee must judged it as intentional contact! Mental.


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## Slime (Oct 12, 2021)

I don't understand why the police were retreating when they should be using tasers ................................... or more force.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 12, 2021)

I wonder if Southgate will think about bringing Kane on for the second half.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I wonder if Southgate will think about bringing Kane on for the second half.
		
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I wonder what the other Strikers are thinking watching Kane .
He’s out of form and struggling.
He’s to deep and getting in the way more than helping.
Get between the two CBS and stay there.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I wonder what the other Strikers are thinking watching Kane .
He’s out of form and struggling.
He’s to deep and getting in the way more than helping.
Get between the two CBS and stay there.
		
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We've got Foden, Mount, Grealish and Sterling in the area behind the striker. Why on earth is Kane dropping back there? What does he think he adds that the other four can't provide? Get yourself in the box and one of those four will find you at least once and probably twice or three times during the match.


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## Orikoru (Oct 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I wonder what the other Strikers are thinking watching Kane .
He’s out of form and struggling.
He’s to deep and getting in the way more than helping.
Get between the two CBS and stay there.
		
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I don't know why you always keep saying that. It's just not his game. It would be like telling Grealish to stop dribbling, or Sterling to score from more than 10 yards out.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I even thought the way he flicked at it was intentional in order to bring his foot down quicker and avoid contact.

It has just been pointed out to me as well that the decision for high foot would actually be an indirect free kick inside the box. So to give a penalty the referee must judged it as intentional contact! Mental.
		
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A European ref will give that everyday for high foot.
Dosnt actually catch him but the dive was very convincing.


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## Orikoru (Oct 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			A European ref will give that everyday for high foot.
Dosnt actually catch him but the dive was very convincing.
		
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I remember when Crouch was at Spurs he used to get done for it all the time. Put his foot up at waist height (for him!) to control the ball, someone else would stoop and try to head it, and high foot was given. It was infuriating, there almost never seems to be a point where they say "well he simply shouldn't have stuck his head in there".


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know why you always keep saying that. It's just not his game. It would be like telling Grealish to stop dribbling, or Sterling to score from more than 10 yards out.
		
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He’s out of form.
We don’t need him to be dropping deep as the midfield is quite good.
He’s 15yds out of position when we do get behind them.
Southgate hasn’t got the balls to leave him out and play an inform striker.


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## Orikoru (Oct 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He’s out of form.
We don’t need him to be dropping deep as the midfield is quite good.
He’s 15yds out of position when we do get behind them.
Southgate hasn’t got the balls to leave him out and play an inform striker.
		
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Don't disagree that he's not playing his best at the moment. But even at 70% he's still more likely to score a goal than Abraham or Watkins I think. They're not exactly glittering options. I'm sure one of them will come on for him with about 20 minutes to go.


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## Billysboots (Oct 12, 2021)

What has Kane got to do to get hooked? So far he has been anonymous.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 12, 2021)

Southgate is to international football management what Ole is to club management. In both cases the results are down to the players, in spite of the managers, and neither of them appear to have a plan or have the balls to make the big decisions and substitute the big names.


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## Slime (Oct 12, 2021)

I just can't understand how Kane and Sterling are still out there!


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## Orikoru (Oct 12, 2021)

Slime said:



			I just can't understand how Kane and Sterling are still out there!  

Click to expand...

Well they're not anymore.


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## Billysboots (Oct 12, 2021)

Totally uninspiring.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 12, 2021)

This midfield is completely lost without Kalvin Philips.


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## Piece (Oct 12, 2021)

Dull, pedestrian performance. Lots of flowery stuff, nothing threatening. Grealish unlucky to be subbed, Mount doing well to last 90


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## pendodave (Oct 12, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Finally, playing the talent rather than two holding midfielders.
		
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This was exactly what I thought when I heard the team....
Funny game, football.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2021)

Very disappointing performance from England, some credit must go to Hungary who were almost back to the Hungarian team we saw at the Euros.

Not sure there were any stand out English players.

One thing that stood out was that we currently don’t have any back up to Kane and Sterling, they didn’t play well, but were still better than what replaced them.

Still, only a month until England v Albania.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Don't disagree that he's not playing his best at the moment. But even at 70% he's still more likely to score a goal than Abraham or Watkins I think. They're not exactly glittering options. I'm sure one of them will come on for him with about 20 minutes to go.
		
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My main problem with Kane is we have arguably a world class midfield.
We don’t need Kane to be dropping deep.
It works at Spurs because you have Son .
It’s just my opinion but he’s not in position when we get behind the defence.
I think the same at Liverpool with Firmino, but that’s how Klopp plays it.

When Kane is on top form then yes it’s how he plays, but imo he should not have started today.

Far to many back passes from our so called creative midfielders.
But credit to the ops they played very well and deserved a draw imo.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 12, 2021)

Does Southgate simply adore Sterling and Mount. They seem to do no wrong in his eyes. Great managers are not afraid to bench players based on immediate form. Southgate will stick with players for months, if not years, if they have one decent game at the right time.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Does Southgate simply adore Sterling and Mount. They seem to do no wrong in his eyes. Great managers are not afraid to bench players based on immediate form. Southgate will stick with players for months, if not years, if they have one decent game at the right time.
		
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Just a shame the best chances fell to Sterling tonight.
He just isn’t a clinical finisher and in a game like this that’s what we needed.


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## Golfmmad (Oct 12, 2021)

Don't know why Grealish came off.
Was clearly the best player on the pitch!
Hungary did their homework, made it difficult for England.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 12, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Does Southgate simply adore Sterling and Mount. They seem to do no wrong in his eyes. Great managers are not afraid to bench players based on immediate form. Southgate will stick with players for months, if not years, if they have one decent game at the right time.
		
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For Southgate to truly be credited for what he's done, he has to drop his favourites when they are clearly out of form.
Sadly for England, I doubt he will and will continue in the same vane as previous holders of his position.


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## 4LEX (Oct 12, 2021)

You can't play Grealish and Foden together, they're too preditcable and either play it safe or try hollywood passes. You need a proper winger there especially as Mount is similar to them but more central.

Grealish on the left but get rid of Foden on the right and play a winger. England aren't Man City and coached by a genius.

Always defended Harry Kane but he is in big trouble, he needs to get out of Spurs ASAP as he's a shadow of the player we've seen over the last 5 years. Looked like we'd stuck a League One player up top.

We can forgive the side a bad night though, we're going to make the World Cup but a lot of big calls for Southgate to make before Qatar.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2021)

4LEX said:



			You can't play Grealish and Foden together, they're too preditcable and either play it safe or try hollywood passes. You need a proper winger there especially as Mount is similar to them but more central.

Grealish on the left but get rid of Foden on the right and play a winger. England aren't Man City and coached by a genius.

Always defended Harry Kane but he is in big trouble, he needs to get out of Spurs ASAP as he's a shadow of the player we've seen over the last 5 years. Looked like we'd stuck a League One player up top.

We can forgive the side a bad night though, we're going to make the World Cup but a lot of big calls for Southgate to make before Qatar.
		
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Yes I agree.
I wonder what Sancho has to do to start before Sterling.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
I wonder what Sancho has to do to start before Sterling.
		
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Do a TV advert?


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## Beezerk (Oct 12, 2021)

Need a goal so bring on Henderson 🤔
In Southgate we trust 😆


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Do a TV advert?
		
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Pizza?


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 13, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Need a goal so bring on Henderson 🤔
In Southgate we trust 😆
		
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Our sideways and backwards passing wasn't good enough so he brought on Henderson to show them how it's done.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2021)

I genuinely thought the 15 mins Henderson played he tried to drive us forward and was  trying to get other players to step up.

As much as I rate Rice and Philips, Henderson brings leadership to the side that they haven’t yet developed.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I genuinely thought the 15 mins Henderson played he tried to drive us forward and was  trying to get other players to step up.

As much as I rate Rice and Philips, Henderson brings leadership to the side that they haven’t yet developed.
		
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Especially if it stops Stones thinking he’s Messi.


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## Orikoru (Oct 13, 2021)

I thought it was obvious but the point of bringing Henderson on was to switch from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1, and allow us to start using a number 10 (pushing Mount further forward). And Foden was also pushed further forward on the left.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I thought it was obvious but the point of bringing Henderson on was to switch from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1, and allow us to start using a number 10 (pushing Mount further forward). And Foden was also pushed further forward on the left.
		
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That’s fine if he hadn’t of brought off Kane, if you are going to push players up, you need to have the strikers capable of getting on the end and personally I’d rather have a 70% Harry Kane or Raheem Sterling than a 100% Tammy Abraham.

I’d of took of Mount for Henderson, give Foden a free role and told Kane and Sterling to stay on their last man.


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## Kellfire (Oct 13, 2021)

Tammy Abraham has been doing ok for Roma. Couple of goals, couple of assists and looking pretty good.


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## Orikoru (Oct 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s fine if he hadn’t of brought off Kane, if you are going to push players up, you need to have the strikers capable of getting on the end and personally I’d rather have a 70% Harry Kane or Raheem Sterling than a 100% Tammy Abraham.

I’d of took of Mount for Henderson, give Foden a free role and told Kane and Sterling to stay on their last man.
		
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Obviously I'm biased towards Kane but I think most others in this thread were disagreeing last night and asking for Kane to be taken off. Abraham was in a bit of form having scored in the previous game I suppose. But he's definitely nowhere near the same level as Kane. A lot of people seem to think the team should be chosen purely on form, but I think certain players transcend that by simply having a much higher base level of ability. i.e. the most damning thing isn't that Kane's off form, it's that there's no one else really good enough to challenge him for a start. Vardy is the only other one who's probably good enough, he's long been out of the set-up now but even at his age he's still the next best English striker. It's a shame his career didn't really kick off until he was already 28 really!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Obviously I'm biased towards Kane but I think most others in this thread were disagreeing last night and asking for Kane to be taken off. Abraham was in a bit of form having scored in the previous game I suppose. But he's definitely nowhere near the same level as Kane. A lot of people seem to think the team should be chosen purely on form, but I think certain players transcend that by simply having a much higher base level of ability. i.e. the most damning thing isn't that Kane's off form, it's that there's no one else really good enough to challenge him for a start. Vardy is the only other one who's probably good enough, he's long been out of the set-up now but even at his age he's still the next best English striker. It's a shame his career didn't really kick off until he was already 28 really!
		
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Give form players a chance by all means, but producing it on the International Stage is totally different, DCL had a great season for us last year and rightly deserved a place in the squad, but he doesn’t carry the presence or threat of Kane or even Sterling.

Abraham scored against Andorra, maybe the mistake was resting the first XI and not giving them the confidence boost of getting amongst the goals.

Sterling is another one who’s never let England down and on another night he’d of took a couple of the chances he had last night.

Mount, doesn’t impress me, he seems inconsistent with Chelsea, Sancho is not playing well, maybe the step up to Utd is one step too far.

Last night was a one off, but for the time being, barring injuries, Kane and Sterling would start up front for the last 2 qualifiers.

Play with the squad over the next 9 months, but make sure we qualify first.

Sadly, Southgate was correct in his interview in that he’ll get murdered whatever team he picks.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 13, 2021)

At the end of the day, Hungary posed us a question that neither the players, nor the manager had the wit to solve.

We have become predictable in that when we get the ball wide, if there is no route through, the ball gets recycled backwards, across the back four and down the other flank where Grealish will then find his route blocked, track backwards, run infield with the ball, find he has nowhere to go, lays the ball back to the central defenders, gets recycled among the back four and we start again....repeat for 70 minutes before changing to plan B which is essentially plan A but with different players.

No one makes darting runs into the box because they know in all likelihood that the ball isn't coming in. The ball doesn't go in because there are no runs into the box. Indeed...how can Kane make a run into the box when he spends half his time in midfield. Basically, the team is too static and rigid....there's not enough movement up front to pull defenders around and create space for other players. Its not a formation issue...its an intelligence, tactics, vision and movement issue.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 13, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Especially if it stops Stones thinking he’s Messi.
		
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Stones had a very good game last night


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## pokerjoke (Oct 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
I wonder what Sancho has to do to start before Sterling.
		
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He’s got to get a run at club level and start playing well.
I’ve been very disappointed in him at Utd so far


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## Bdill93 (Oct 13, 2021)

Southgate is not tactically smart enough/ a good enough coach to get the best out of the players at his disposal.

The England team on display last night should be a top 3 premier league side, steamrolling teams. We should not need 2 holding midfielders to keep Hungary at bay. End of. 

Started the right team for the first time ever - should have seen Sancho for Sterling and Tammy for Kane after 60 mins though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2021)

As much as the result last night was disappointing, we didn’t lose, remember this Hungary side took points off both France and Germany in the Euros and were holding Portugal at 0-0 until the 84th minute.

A few weeks back we beat them 4-0 away, these results performances happen.

No international or Club side wins every match.

They managed to get a draw with a penalty with a good display and I don’t remember Pickford having anything else to do, we could of easily won that match 2/3-1 with the same disappointing performance.

I think once again England fans are over-reacting and maybe believing we are better than we actually are.


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## Golfmmad (Oct 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			As much as the result last night was disappointing, we didn’t lose, remember this Hungary side took points off both France and Germany in the Euros and were holding Portugal at 0-0 until the 84th minute.

A few weeks back we beat them 4-0 away, these results performances happen.

No international or Club side wins every match.

They managed to get a draw with a penalty with a good display and I don’t remember Pickford having anything else to do, we could of easily won that match 2/3-1 with the same disappointing performance.

I think once again England fans are over-reacting and maybe believing we are better than we actually are.
		
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Totally agree with this. As I mentioned in a previous post, Hungary did their homework. They saw the threat in Foden and made sure he was quickly closed down every time he got the ball in the first half. He had a bit more freedom in the 2nd half but they dealt with any threat really well.
As the saying goes, "We can't win 'Em all!


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## Stuart_C (Oct 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			He’s got to get a run at club level and start playing well.
I’ve been very disappointed in him at Utd so far
		
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He's barely played in fairness.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He's barely played in fairness.
		
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This is what I don't understand. Why would Utd pay over £70 million for a player and then not give him game time? I assume that Ole wanted him, rather than it being a board decision, so if you're spending that kind of cash it has to be on a first choice player. There are very few clubs, apart from PSG, Man City and Newcastle, that can afford to spend over £70 million for a squad player to sit on the bench. It seems as though they wanted to buy him but haven't worked out, or can't work out the best way to fit him into the team. He looked fantastic last season at Dortmund which is why Utd paid so much for him so why not look at where they were using him to get those performances and then replicate that. If you've got a front five of Ronaldo, Fernandes, Pogba, Sancho and Rashford/Greenwood and you still don't look dangerous going forward then you've got problems.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 13, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			This is what I don't understand. Why would Utd pay over £70 million for a player and then not give him game time? I assume that Ole wanted him, rather than it being a board decision, so if you're spending that kind of cash it has to be on a first choice player. There are very few clubs, apart from PSG, Man City and Newcastle, that can afford to spend over £70 million for a squad player to sit on the bench. It seems as though they wanted to buy him but haven't worked out, or can't work out the best way to fit him into the team. He looked fantastic last season at Dortmund which is why Utd paid so much for him so why not look at where they were using him to get those performances and then replicate that. If you've got a front five of Ronaldo, Fernandes, Pogba, Sancho and Rashford/Greenwood and you still don't look dangerous going forward then you've got problems.
		
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It's blatantly obvious to me, the manager hasn't got a scooby where or how to get him into the side. 

I don't know what fans were expecting Sancho to do in such a short amount of time he's been given. 

Even if he takes 6 months to settle which a lot of good players do, if managed right here's there 10yrs minimum.


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## fundy (Oct 13, 2021)

want to swap him for Pepe lol


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## pokerjoke (Oct 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He's barely played in fairness.
		
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As I said he needs a run of games 
The trouble is where does he fit in.
I suspect when Rashford comes back he’s another notch lower.
To be fair Greenwood has stepped up his game since Sanchos arrival.

Southgate obviously doesn’t rate him higher than Sterling,Foden,Saka or Grealish.
Looks like a waiting game for Sancho


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Stones had a very good game last night
		
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But he's a defender, not the creative genius in midfield.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			As I said he needs a run of games
The trouble is where does he fit in.
I suspect when Rashford comes back he’s another notch lower.
To be fair Greenwood has stepped up his game since Sanchos arrival.

Southgate obviously doesn’t rate him higher than Sterling,Foden,Saka or Grealish.
Looks like a waiting game for Sancho
		
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He's predominantly a Left sided forward/wide man. He's gotta play imo left of the 3.

He's an improvement on Rashford, martial and Greenwood though I think Greenwood would make a top centre forward if set up with the correct fire power behind.

Southgate shouldn't be used as an example, He's about as useful as OGS.


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## Neilds (Oct 14, 2021)

I see that English clubs are chartering a private jet to get players back from South America after the World Cup qualifying on Friday morning with a view to them playing at the weekend. Liverpool kick off 35 hours after the Brazil game and they want players to be involved!?!? They have a large squad which they are willing to use in Cup matches so why do they expect to play some players twice in 2 days? The big clubs are the first to complain when they have to play in quick succession over Christmas and then they blow any argument they have out of the water with actions like this.


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## GB72 (Oct 14, 2021)

Slightly off topic but it looks like next year will be the last FIFA football video game. FIFA decided that they wanted over a billion dollars to use its name for 4 years and further wanted to restrict the use and also be able to sell it for other video games. Bearing in mind that the payment is simply to use the name FIFA and the World Cup and does not include any player, club or stadium licences, it is hardly surprising that EA have decided that the next itteration of the game when the deal expires will be called something else.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 14, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Slightly off topic but it looks like next year will be the last FIFA football video game. FIFA decided that they wanted over a billion dollars to use its name for 4 years and further wanted to restrict the use and also be able to sell it for other video games. Bearing in mind that the payment is simply to use the name FIFA and the World Cup and does not include any player, club or stadium licences, it is hardly surprising that EA have decided that the next itteration of the game when the deal expires will be called something else.
		
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Which emphasises that when it comes to football it’s all about money. Not the fans, players etc.


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## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Slightly off topic but it looks like next year will be the last FIFA football video game. FIFA decided that they wanted over a billion dollars to use its name for 4 years and further wanted to restrict the use and also be able to sell it for other video games. Bearing in mind that the payment is simply to use the name FIFA and the World Cup and does not include any player, club or stadium licences, it is hardly surprising that EA have decided that the next itteration of the game when the deal expires will be called something else.
		
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The Fifa games have been bloody awful for the last 5 years anyway. Just glitch-riddled nonsense. I gave up on it three years back. Hopefully this gives them the opportunity to revamp it and make a decent game.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 14, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Slightly off topic but it looks like next year will be the last FIFA football video game. FIFA decided that they wanted over a billion dollars to use its name for 4 years and further wanted to restrict the use and also be able to sell it for other video games. Bearing in mind that the payment is simply to use the name FIFA and the World Cup and does not include any player, club or stadium licences, it is hardly surprising that EA have decided that the next itteration of the game when the deal expires will be called something else.
		
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Never bought a FIFA game in years. It became boring, with nearly every edition I ever bought having a "cheat" way to score a simple goal. In one of the earliest (may have been FIFA95), you just stood your player in front of the goalie when ball was in his arms, he kicked it into your chest, control, bang, goal. Another one, you just played a through ball down the wing, the winger ran diagonally through on goal, bang goal (really annoying when you play a human who used this tactic against you). Another it was virtually impossible to score from close range, but shoot 20 yards outside the box and it frequently flew into the top corner.

I became a Pro Evolution fan. Didn't have the licensing, but the ball mechanics where far superior, felt much more authentic.

Mind you, not bought any football game in years, don't have the attention span to play season after season.


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## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Never bought a FIFA game in years. It became boring, with nearly every edition I ever bought having a "cheat" way to score a simple goal. In one of the earliest (may have been FIFA95), you just stood your player in front of the goalie when ball was in his arms, he kicked it into your chest, control, bang, goal. Another one, you just played a through ball down the wing, the winger ran diagonally through on goal, bang goal (really annoying when you play a human who used this tactic against you). Another it was virtually impossible to score from close range, but shoot 20 yards outside the box and it frequently flew into the top corner.

I became a Pro Evolution fan. Didn't have the licensing, but the ball mechanics where far superior, felt much more authentic.

Mind you, not bought any football game in years, don't have the attention span to play season after season.
		
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In the PS3 era Pro Evo was king - 4, 5 & 6 were the best (between 2004 and 2006). On PS4 their efforts were not as good though. You're right about Fifa, there was always flaws every year. From about 2018 though they just got unbearable. I have Pro Evo 2020 because it was a cheap download (25 quid or so) when I got it. It's very clunky to be honest, but not quite as frustrating as the last several Fifas. I still don't play it very much. The main game I play now is PGA 2k21.  Or Borderlands 3, but I completed it.


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## Beezerk (Oct 14, 2021)

Pga 2k21 is free this month with PS Plus btw, maybe should be in another thread though 😉


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## Piece (Oct 14, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Never bought a FIFA game in years. It became boring, with nearly every edition I ever bought having a "cheat" way to score a simple goal. In one of the earliest (may have been FIFA95), you just stood your player in front of the goalie when ball was in his arms, he kicked it into your chest, control, bang, goal. Another one, you just played a through ball down the wing, the winger ran diagonally through on goal, bang goal (really annoying when you play a human who used this tactic against you). Another it was virtually impossible to score from close range, but shoot 20 yards outside the box and it frequently flew into the top corner.

I became a Pro Evolution fan. Didn't have the licensing, but the ball mechanics where far superior, felt much more authentic.

Mind you, not bought any football game in years, don't have the attention span to play season after season.
		
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Interesting. I've played most FIFA games but not so much the 21 and certainly not the 22. I used to spend days and hours trawling through vids on how to become better, studied the tactics and then thought I nailed it with beautiful football. I then played my 12 yr old who was route one, get crosses in and scored most times! I did get to Div 3 I think on-line with Watford though!

Never tried Pro Evo though...


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## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2021)

Piece said:



			Interesting. I've played most FIFA games but not so much the 21 and certainly not the 22. I used to spend days and hours trawling through vids on how to become better, studied the tactics and then thought I nailed it with beautiful football. I then played my 12 yr old who was route one, get crosses in and scored most times! I did get to Div 3 I think on-line with Watford though!

Never tried Pro Evo though...
		
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The only consistent thing across all Fifas was that you were always better off with the fastest players.


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## Piece (Oct 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The only consistent thing across all Fifas was that you were always better off with the fastest players. 

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I put Ismaila Sarr in defence for a season once. No-one got past him!


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## GB72 (Oct 14, 2021)

Bit of an end of an era. I remember buying the original FIFA on the megadrive and many after that but, like others, have drifted on to other things. Pro Evo on the N64 was a classic but the lack of licences did detract from the experience. I have bought the latest version of FIFA for my nephew since he got his first console and only this week purchased the latest one for his 17th Birthday.


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## 4LEX (Oct 14, 2021)

Not a patch on Sensible Soccer. Bryan Goggs and Peul Once


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 15, 2021)

England FA - bunch of doorknobs 

If a player is injured- send him back to the club instead of giving him a cameo for 15 mins in a match 🤬🤬🤬


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			England FA - bunch of doorknobs

If a player is injured- send him back to the club instead of giving him a cameo for 15 mins in a match 🤬🤬🤬
		
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If a player is injured then surely he should declare himself injured & pull out? 🤷‍♂️


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## Reemul (Oct 15, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			If a player is injured then surely he should declare himself injured & pull out? 🤷‍♂️
		
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Not allowed to do that the England medical team have to discharge you from the squad


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 15, 2021)

Reemul said:



			Not allowed to do that the England medical team have to discharge you from the squad
		
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Didn’t know that.
Not sure who the player in question is,but surely they didn’t play a player they knew was injured?


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## Billysboots (Oct 16, 2021)

This is going to be a long 90 minutes for Danny Rose. Salah is running rings round him.


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			This is going to be a long 90 minutes for Danny Rose. Salah is running rings round him.
		
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It's going to be a long 90 for all in yellow! We will have our pants pulled down I suspect.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 16, 2021)

Controversial goal for Liverpool, then Salah follows up a few minutes later with an absolute quality goal


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## fundy (Oct 16, 2021)

Gonna be some uproar when they give player of the month to Ronaldo again


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## hairball_89 (Oct 16, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Controversial goal for Liverpool, then Salah follows up a few minutes later with an absolute quality goal
		
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Cathcart hugely unlucky and had it been ruled out it would have been fair for me. He only plays the ball because of Mo’s presence but if he doesn’t play it Salah scores and it’s ruled out. Unfair for me. 

His goal. Unbelievable. Sublime. Genius.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 16, 2021)

Dunno if Liverpool look class or Watford are that bad 

Bit of both maybe but great goal from Salah that last one


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## SteveW86 (Oct 16, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Cathcart hugely unlucky and had it been ruled out it would have been fair for me. He only plays the ball because of Mo’s presence but if he doesn’t play it Salah scores and it’s ruled out. Unfair for me.

His goal. Unbelievable. Sublime. Genius.
		
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Offside rule has gotten silly. That goal shouldn’t stand, but the rules allow it to because Salah hasn’t touched the ball. The defender can’t win as he can’t take the risk of leaving it.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Dunno if Liverpool look class or Watford are that bad

Bit of both maybe but great goal from Salah that last one
		
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It’s definitely both. Watford are very bad.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 16, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			It’s definitely both. Watford are very bad.
		
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I'm sure they can just sack another manager


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## Billysboots (Oct 16, 2021)

I don’t like singling out individuals when a team has played poorly, but Danny Rose has put in as bad a performance as I have seen in years. Shockingly, embarrassingly poor.


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Dunno if Liverpool look class or Watford are that bad

Bit of both maybe but great goal from Salah that last one
		
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Both....


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I don’t like singling out individuals when a team has played poorly, but Danny Rose has put in as bad a performance as I have seen in years. Shockingly, embarrassingly poor.
		
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While I don't disagree too much on today's performance, Rose has been our better player of late. He is up against Salah who has torn a new one in several left backs recently.


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## fundy (Oct 16, 2021)

Not long till Ranieri favourite in the sack race


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## pauljames87 (Oct 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			Not long till Ranieri favourite in the sack race 

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Don't you get that the moment you get appointed?


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			Not long till Ranieri favourite in the sack race 

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Should have gone at half-time!


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 16, 2021)

Man U are flying to Leicester today Seem to remember Liverpool flying to Hull a few years ago. Anybody know what the shortest plane journey taken for a footballs at home is in The Premiership? Also how economic is it compared to coach travel when they have to get to the Airport and drop off at the other end?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2021)

Salah's goal was pure filth.

Great win, solid performance.

That offside rule needs looking at though. We benefitted from it today but we've also fallen foul to it aswell v spurs a few seasons ago.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Man U are flying to Leicester today Seem to remember Liverpool flying to Hull a few years ago. Anybody know what the shortest plane journey taken for a footballs at home is in The Premiership? Also how economic is it compared to coach travel when they have to get to the Airport and drop off at the other end?
		
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I believe the excuse is that there are roadworks on the m6 and they didn't want to get caught in them. Not sure how well that really stands up to scrutiny. It is a 100 mile journey, there are other roads, they could have gone the night before, they could have set off earlier. All are better than taking a plane for this distance. 

In their defence, not for this journey, utd certainly used to travel by train on occasions, Crewe is their station of choice, and get the coach at the other end. It's a shame they didn't do the same on this occasion.


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## 4LEX (Oct 16, 2021)

They would've used the bus but Ole's parked it again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2021)

Clinical superb performance 

Offside rule is a mess

Salah the best in the world


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## Swango1980 (Oct 16, 2021)

4LEX said:



			They would've used the bus but Ole's parked it again.
		
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United fans need to stop defending Ole now, just because he was a good servant as a player. As a manager, he is horrific. If Pep or Klopp were out of a job tomorrow, every club would queue up for them. If most managers lost their job tomorrow, there would be at least some clubs interested. 

If Ole was to be jobless tomorrow, I can't imagine one club being interested. Not in Premiership, Championship, League 1 or League 2. I wouldn't have him as manager for my over 35's 8aside football team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2021)




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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			United fans need to stop defending Ole now, just because he was a good servant as a player. As a manager, he is horrific. If Pep or Klopp were out of a job tomorrow, every club would queue up for them. If most managers lost their job tomorrow, there would be at least some clubs interested.

If Ole was to be jobless tomorrow, I can't imagine one club being interested. Not in Premiership, Championship, League 1 or League 2. I wouldn't have him as manager for my over 35's 8aside football team.
		
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Stop being fickle and give him a chance, he's doing a good job.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2021)

4LEX said:



			They would've used the bus but Ole's parked it again.
		
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He's parked it on a angle, left a big gap behind 🤭🤭


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## Billysboots (Oct 16, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			United fans need to stop defending Ole now, just because he was a good servant as a player. As a manager, he is horrific. If Pep or Klopp were out of a job tomorrow, every club would queue up for them. If most managers lost their job tomorrow, there would be at least some clubs interested.

If Ole was to be jobless tomorrow, I can't imagine one club being interested. Not in Premiership, Championship, League 1 or League 2. I wouldn't have him as manager for my over 35's 8aside football team.
		
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I’ve been patient because I can see the direction the club has been taking with some of the signings in recent years. Varane is a quality signing, and Sancho is very much one for the future.

For me, whilst the signing of Ronaldo made me all dewy eyed, it was nevertheless a huge backward step and not part of a long term plan at all. I just don’t see the fit, and whilst I’m happy to see him in the Premier League once again, it really unsettles the attacking talent we have.

Solskjaer simply doesn’t get the best out of these players, and never will. Defensively we are shambolic, there is absolutely no defensive quality in front of the back four, and with the run of games we have coming up we could easily find our season is over by the end of November.

All that said, I am not sure who United could replace Solskjaer with. Conte keeps getting a mention, but he is not a long term manager. Zidane? No thanks. It might be time to look at a younger manager, maybe one who hasn’t won anything, but who has demonstrated an ability to get the best out of his players.

United under Solskjaer continue to be largely turgid, with flat team performances being papered over by moments of individual brilliance. It’s starting to wear very thin.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 16, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve been patient because I can see the direction the club has been taking with some of the signings in recent years. Varane is a quality signing, and Sancho is very much one for the future.

For me, whilst the signing of Ronaldo made me all dewy eyed, it was nevertheless a huge backward step and not part of a long term plan at all. I just don’t see the fit, and whilst I’m happy to see him in the Premier League once again, it really unsettles the attacking talent we have.

Solskjaer simply doesn’t get the best out of these players, and never will. Defensively we are shambolic, there is absolutely no defensive quality in front of the back four, and with the run of games we have coming up we could easily find our season is over by the end of November.

All that said, I am not sure who United could replace Solskjaer with. Conte keeps getting a mention, but he is not a long term manager. Zidane? No thanks. It might be time to look at a younger manager, maybe one who hasn’t won anything, but who has demonstrated an ability to get the best out of his players.

United under Solskjaer continue to be largely turgid, with flat team performances being papered over by moments of individual brilliance. It’s starting to wear very thin.
		
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I'd rather have Allardyce over Ole now. I don't want Allardyce, but anybody would have more of a clue on management than Ole.

Ole has never proved himself in management before he came to Utd. He was an interim manager, but the players seemed to have positive response to the departure of Mourinho. We were fooled into thinking it was Ole's doing, and signed him as a permanent manager. He has had his chance now, and he is MILES out of his depth.


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## Billysboots (Oct 16, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd rather have Allardyce over Ole now. I don't want Allardyce, but anybody would have more of a clue on management than Ole.

Ole has never proved himself in management before he came to Utd. He was an interim manager, but the players seemed to have positive response to the departure of Mourinho. We were fooled into thinking it was Ole's doing, and signed him as a permanent manager. He has had his chance now, and he is MILES out of his depth.
		
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Agreed. And Alan Hutton sums up my thoughts perfectly with the following comment on 5 Live;

_“At the back, Man Utd are a shambles. I have to be honest. Watching them, they are a team full of world class players, but they aren't playing as a team. When they get results, it is down to individual brilliance.”_

It cannot continue.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2021)

It's mad how the best defence In the league can't defend 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's mad how the best defence In the league can't defend 😁
		
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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



*I'd rather have Allardyce over Ole now.* I don't want Allardyce, but anybody would have more of a clue on management than Ole.

Ole has never proved himself in management before he came to Utd. He was an interim manager, but the players seemed to have positive response to the departure of Mourinho. We were fooled into thinking it was Ole's doing, and signed him as a permanent manager. He has had his chance now, and he is MILES out of his depth.
		
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Bit of an overreaction,no?

It would be funny him as the manager though.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 16, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve been patient because I can see the direction the club has been taking with some of the signings in recent years. Varane is a quality signing, and Sancho is very much one for the future.

For me, whilst the signing of Ronaldo made me all dewy eyed, it was nevertheless a huge backward step and not part of a long term plan at all. I just don’t see the fit, and whilst I’m happy to see him in the Premier League once again, it really unsettles the attacking talent we have.

Solskjaer simply doesn’t get the best out of these players, and never will. Defensively we are shambolic, there is absolutely no defensive quality in front of the back four, and with the run of games we have coming up we could easily find our season is over by the end of November.

All that said, I am not sure who United could replace Solskjaer with. Conte keeps getting a mention, but he is not a long term manager. Zidane? No thanks. It might be time to look at a younger manager, maybe one who hasn’t won anything, but who has demonstrated an ability to get the best out of his players.

United under Solskjaer continue to be largely turgid, with flat team performances being papered over by moments of individual brilliance. It’s starting to wear very thin.
		
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Agreed
The trouble is only the fans are holding these players account.

Ole should be up screaming at players.
Maguire was shocking 
Roy Keane would be getting him by the scruff of the neck and shaking him like a rag doll to wake him up.
Ole unfortunately in the end will go,wether it’s sooner or later I don’t know,but this season could be over unless things change drastically and quickly.


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## Billysboots (Oct 16, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Agreed
The trouble is only the fans are holding these players account.

Ole should be up screaming at players.
Maguire was shocking
Roy Keane would be getting him by the scruff of the neck and shaking him like a rag doll to wake him up.
Ole unfortunately in the end will go,wether it’s sooner or later I don’t know,but this season could be over unless things change drastically and quickly.
		
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United lack a leader on the pitch. Maguire isn’t a captain - nowhere near vocal enough. I’d love to see someone with the vocal qualities of Conor Coady - I love what he brings to a side in that sense, regardless of playing ability.

Alas, I can’t see any managerial changes before the end of the season, unless Solskjaer falls on his sword. I just don’t see the club sacking him, unless the results start to match the performances. And that won’t happen whilst individuals like Ronaldo, Pogba and Bruno keep bailing Solskjaer out.

With the exception of some cover at right back, and someone with the quality of Kante in the middle of the park, United now have a squad capable of competing. I’d hate to see the quality we have start to drift away because they don’t have the manager with the nouse to get them playing as a team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2021)

I see Antony Taylor’s inconsistency is still consistent


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## Slime (Oct 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's mad how the best defence In the league can't defend 😁
		
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## ColchesterFC (Oct 16, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve been patient because I can see the direction the club has been taking with some of the signings in recent years. Varane is a quality signing, and Sancho is very much one for the future.

For me, whilst the signing of Ronaldo made me all dewy eyed, it was nevertheless a huge backward step and not part of a long term plan at all. I just don’t see the fit, and whilst I’m happy to see him in the Premier League once again, it really unsettles the attacking talent we have.

Solskjaer simply doesn’t get the best out of these players, and never will. Defensively we are shambolic, there is absolutely no defensive quality in front of the back four, and with the run of games we have coming up we could easily find our season is over by the end of November.

*All that said, I am not sure who United could replace Solskjaer with.* Conte keeps getting a mention, but he is not a long term manager. Zidane? No thanks. It might be time to look at a younger manager, maybe one who hasn’t won anything, but who has demonstrated an ability to get the best out of his players.

United under Solskjaer continue to be largely turgid, with flat team performances being papered over by moments of individual brilliance. It’s starting to wear very thin.
		
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If United want to stick with the former player becoming the manager route then Steve Bruce could be available fairly soon.


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## Slime (Oct 16, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			If United want to stick with the former player becoming the manager route then Steve Bruce could be available fairly soon. 

Click to expand...

I'd take Roy Keane, he'd shake them up a bit!


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 16, 2021)

Toney was never offside there. That should've been a penalty.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Toney was never offside there. That should've been a penalty.
		
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Can’t understand how they didn’t look at VAR there - he was kept onside by the left back and was a penalty


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## fundy (Oct 16, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Toney was never offside there. That should've been a penalty.
		
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thought thats why the linos not supposed to flag lol


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## GG26 (Oct 16, 2021)

Enjoyed this afternoon’s match, the King Power was absolutely rocking.  Best team performance for some time and the win thoroughly deserved.

Wasn’t that impressed by the ref.  First minute, Maddison breaks through and is pulled back by Pogba - yellow card all day long.  He must have committed another four fouls during the game which warranted a yellow.  Finally get one in the 90th minute for an innocuous challenge.


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## harpo_72 (Oct 16, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			United lack a leader on the pitch. Maguire isn’t a captain - nowhere near vocal enough. I’d love to see someone with the vocal qualities of Conor Coady - I love what he brings to a side in that sense, regardless of playing ability.

Alas, I can’t see any managerial changes before the end of the season, unless Solskjaer falls on his sword. I just don’t see the club sacking him, unless the results start to match the performances. And that won’t happen whilst individuals like Ronaldo, Pogba and Bruno keep bailing Solskjaer out.

With the exception of some cover at right back, and someone with the quality of Kante in the middle of the park, United now have a squad capable of competing. I’d hate to see the quality we have start to drift away because they don’t have the manager with the nouse to get them playing as a team.
		
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Do you not question the buying strategy and whether the manager actually has any input? Realistically he doesn’t have a defensive midfielder/holding midfielder and you need that to break up the opposition to give your attacking players a chance to play


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2021)

Wow Mendy is pulling off some blinding saves here - stunning that last one


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 16, 2021)

Chelsea resorting to time wasting and hacking it clear. Anywhere will do.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2021)

Fabulous effort from Brentford whatever happens. No one will get an easy game at Brentford this year, a cracking addition to the PL.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fabulous effort from Brentford whatever happens. No one will get an easy game at Brentford this year, a cracking addition to the PL.
		
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Agree. Brentford are brilliant to watch, as a neutral, but have been robbed tonight by poor refereeing decisions. Once again the big team getting the decisions in their favour.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Agree. Brentford are brilliant to watch, as a neutral, but have been robbed tonight by poor refereeing decisions. Once again the big team getting the decisions in their favour.
		
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Yep - shocking performance from the officials, that penalty shout was blatant


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fabulous effort from Brentford whatever happens. No one will get an easy game at Brentford this year, a cracking addition to the PL.
		
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They’ll definitely be relegated next season 😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449441852407549953


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## Billysboots (Oct 16, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Do you not question the buying strategy and whether the manager actually has any input? Realistically he doesn’t have a defensive midfielder/holding midfielder and you need that to break up the opposition to give your attacking players a chance to play
		
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Yes, which is why the Ronaldo signing is so baffling. The plan since Solskjaer took over has clearly been to sign younger players, rather than trying to shoehorn established superstars into a system. Ronaldo’s signing is totally at odds with that philosophy, and as such I question whether the club by-passed the manager when that signing was made.

I absolutely agree a defensive midfielder is a priority. Maybe that was a signing too far in the last window, but it will be a priority next summer. Hopefully for a new manager.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			They’ll definitely be relegated next season 😂
		
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Obviously, but this year will be a blast 🤣


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Obviously, but this year will be a blast 🤣
		
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After the Arsenal game I thought ,well this was their cup final,after a few games they’ll be cannon fodder.
Brilliant how they just go at teams regardless of who they are.


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## Billysboots (Oct 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fabulous effort from Brentford whatever happens. No one will get an easy game at Brentford this year, a cracking addition to the PL.
		
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Very impressed with what I’ve seen of them so far. They’ll cause a lot of sides a lot of problems this season, especially at home.

Well drilled, well managed and every player gives 100%. If only I could say the same if my shower.


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## harpo_72 (Oct 16, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Yes, which is why the Ronaldo signing is so baffling. The plan since Solskjaer took over has clearly been to sign younger players, rather than trying to shoehorn established superstars into a system. Ronaldo’s signing is totally at odds with that philosophy, and as such I question whether the club by-passed the manager when that signing was made.

I absolutely agree a defensive midfielder is a priority. Maybe that was a signing too far in the last window, but it will be a priority next summer. Hopefully for a new manager.
		
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It was peculiar but didn’t Ferguson step in on the deal? I think CR does have something to share and that’s his professionalism.. if that rubs off on all the younger guys then it could have a super positive impact. 
However the Donny situation I really don’t get. I see he played a few times and he is out of position and out of sync , and then Sancho hasn’t been played much either .. it’s all a little too disconnected


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			After the Arsenal game I thought ,well this was their cup final,after a few games they’ll be cannon fodder.
Brilliant how they just go at teams regardless of who they are.
		
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As with all of those teams the key will be, can they score enough. Their attitude, style, organisation though is fabulous. Good fun to watch for their fans and for the neutral.


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## Billysboots (Oct 16, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			It was peculiar but didn’t Ferguson step in on the deal? I think CR does have something to share and that’s his professionalism.. if that rubs off on all the younger guys then it could have a super positive impact.
However the Donny situation I really don’t get. I see he played a few times and he is out of position and out of sync , and then Sancho hasn’t been played much either .. it’s all a little too disconnected
		
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I agree Ronaldo can help the younger players, but the same can be said of Cavani. And VDB’s signing is even more peculiar than that of Ronaldo - I’ve said all along he is clearly a player Solskjaer didn’t want. I can think of no other reason the player would be on the bench week in, week out. If it was simply a case of not being good enough, he wouldn’t make the bench. I firmly believe Solskjaer puts him on the bench not because he ever intends to use him, but to try and show the board who is in charge.

I don’t know if you just saw Gary Neville on Sky Sports. He was again scathing in his assessment. He named the front five and then said you wouldn’t want to be a defender in that team, simply because those in front of you don’t work hard enough. He added that, out of possession, United are one of the worst sides in the division.

That’s a shocking indictment of the players, and also the manager. The club have the players, but the players lack the work ethic. He said what I said at the time - even the performance against Newcastle was poor.

We are not playing well, and unless there is a huge change in attitude in the coming weeks things are only going to get a whole lot worse. Between now and the end of November the United of the last month or so will not pick up a point.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As with all of those teams the key will be, can they score enough. Their attitude, style, organisation though is fabulous. Good fun to watch for their fans and for the neutral.
		
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Agreed


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As with all of those teams the key will be, can they score enough. Their attitude, style, organisation though is fabulous. Good fun to watch for their fans and for the neutral.
		
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The difference for Brentford is they have a goalscorer in Toney and he has a partner that will continue to make chances and also take them.

Their issue imo is keeping the goals out and how they cope with injuries later


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## Tashyboy (Oct 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fabulous effort from Brentford whatever happens. No one will get an easy game at Brentford this year, a cracking addition to the PL.
		
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I bumped into a Brentford fan at Looe yesterday. We had a right good matter. He is absolutely buzzing. He was at the Liverpool game and could not believe they took a point. Said the place is rocking at the moment.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 16, 2021)

Seen lots of pics on Twitter  of the Newcastle owners with the fans in the city.
They’re proper buzzing up there.
Tbf they deserve it after Ashley.


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## Billysboots (Oct 16, 2021)

I’m just braving the Leicester v United game on Sky, and Neville is spot on. United virtually played a 4-1-5, with Matic the unfortunate “1”.

Time and again I’m watching Leicester cut swathes through United with Ricardo, in particular, finding himself in acres of space. Huge gaps between our front five and everyone else with Sancho, Pogba and Greenwood simply ambling back when Leicester are in possession.

Shocking to watch.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seen lots of pics on Twitter  of the Newcastle owners with the fans in the city.
They’re proper buzzing up there.
Tbf they deserve it after Ashley.
		
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Remember Mike drinking pints with the fans in the away end one game in the early days? He was the saviour back then.

The new owners are doing all the right things at the moment but in all honesty there was such a disconnect before they would have to be pretty incompetent not to be welcomed with open arms. Saying that, plenty are incompetent, these are not. They have given fans hope, isn't that what all fans want?

The atmosphere tomorrow will be bouncing,  the pubs will have ordered twice the usual number of barrels 😳. It would be worth being in the city for the buzz, never mind the game.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Remember Mike drinking pints with the fans in the away end one game in the early days? He was the saviour back then.

The new owners are doing all the right things at the moment but in all honesty there was such a disconnect before they would have to be pretty incompetent not to be welcomed with open arms. Saying that, plenty are incompetent, these are not. They have given fans hope, isn't that what all fans want?

The atmosphere tomorrow will be bouncing,  the pubs will have ordered twice the usual number of barrels 😳. It would be worth being in the city for the buzz, never mind the game.
		
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Let’s be honest the game as gone.
No prem club as got any morals,they’re only moaning about this because there’s going to be another club to compete with when trying to outbid the others in the transfer market. 
As if they really give a monkeys about human rights in Saudi Arabia


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 16, 2021)

Assuming that Ole was to go, who would Utd fans want to take over from him? And ideally I'm talking about available and realistic targets, rather than Klopp, Pep, Nagelsmann etc. The only two that I can think of that might be approachable are Pochettino or Simeone. Not sure that Zidane would be a good choice, possibly Conte for a couple of years until a natural replacement comes along. The only others that might be a decent fit would seem to be Allegri, Ten Haag or Rogers. Left field suggestion Bielsa - at least they'd be playing attacking football again. What are the thoughts of our resident Man Utd fans?


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## Billysboots (Oct 16, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Assuming that Ole was to go, who would Utd fans want to take over from him? And ideally I'm talking about available and realistic targets, rather than Klopp, Pep, Nagelsmann etc. The only two that I can think of that might be approachable are Pochettino or Simeone. Not sure that Zidane would be a good choice, possibly Conte for a couple of years until a natural replacement comes along. The only others that might be a decent fit would seem to be Allegri, Ten Haag or Rogers. Left field suggestion Bielsa - at least they'd be playing attacking football again. What are the thoughts of our resident Man Utd fans?
		
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I’m not sure, and that’s a big part of the problem.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m not sure, and that’s a big part of the problem.
		
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I don’t think changing the manager will solve the problem totally. For me defensively they’re not good enough.

Then you’ve got Pogba whose not the same Pogba who plays for France.

I don’t think the team work hard enough as a team without  the ball. 

Then there’s the Ronaldo situation. 

Nobody is taking responsibility neither.


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## fundy (Oct 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I don’t think changing the manager will solve the problem totally. For me defensively they’re not good enough.

Then you’ve got Pogba whose not the same Pogba who plays for France.

I don’t think the team work hard enough as a team without  the ball. 

Then there’s the Ronaldo situation. 

Nobody is taking responsibility neither.
		
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A manager who picks a balanced side and coaches them how to defend as a side surely has a fair chance, squad is unbalanced too but isnt a million miles away if coached and set up better than it currently is with 1 or 2 additions


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## 4LEX (Oct 17, 2021)

Ole will get until the end of the season and be replaced by Poch. It's a done deal.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I don’t think changing the manager will solve the problem totally. For me defensively they’re not good enough.

Then you’ve got Pogba whose not the same Pogba who plays for France.

I don’t think the team work hard enough as a team without  the ball.

Then there’s the Ronaldo situation.

Nobody is taking responsibility neither.
		
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It wouldn't surprise me if you put an individual like Fred into the Man City or Liverpool team, their fans would hail him one of the best defensive midfielders in the world. Not because they are deluded, but because Klopp or Pep would have him and the team playing in a way to maximise his abilities. Whereas, if United had Kante or Rice, soon we'd be laughing at how awful they are. Because Ole has no idea how to set up a football team tactically. Maguire was highly rated by many before coming to Utd, he now looks a shadow of that player. 

I'm too young to remember what it was like before Fergie started winning trophies, and I know fans wanted him out. But, at least he had achieved things as a manager before Utd. He had grit. He had passion. He had charisma. Ole has achieved nothing and he has none of those traits. And, he has a team of players who, on paper could win trophies, so he can no longer hide behind trying to build a team. If Ole was in charge of the famous Brazilian sides with Pele, or Barcelona 10 or so years ago, he'd win nothing.

Yes, Utd have players who do not work hard enough. Yes, we can blame them to some extent. But, largely blame the manager. He should be shouting and screaming at them to wake up, he does nothing of the kind.  I don't even think he can see it. When things go wrong, his only solution is to change a few players for the next game and hope that works. The Utd team are just too nice, and that largely comes from the manager. I don't just look at teams like City, Liverpool.or Chelsea and envy their managers. I look at Leicester, Brighton and Brentford and envy their managers.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



*It wouldn't surprise me if you put an individual like Fred into the Man City or Liverpool team, their fans would hail him one of the best defensive midfielders in the world.* Not because they are deluded, but because Klopp or Pep would have him and the team playing in a way to maximise his abilities. Whereas, if United had Kante or Rice, soon we'd be laughing at how awful they are. Because Ole has no idea how to set up a football team tactically. Maguire was highly rated by many before coming to Utd, he now looks a shadow of that player.

I'm too young to remember what it was like before Fergie started winning trophies, and I know fans wanted him out. But, at least he had achieved things as a manager before Utd. He had grit. He had passion. He had charisma. Ole has achieved nothing and he has none of those traits. And, he has a team of players who, on paper could win trophies, so he can no longer hide behind trying to build a team. If Ole was in charge of the famous Brazilian sides with Pele, or Barcelona 10 or so years ago, he'd win nothing.

Yes, Utd have players who do not work hard enough. Yes, we can blame them to some extent. But, largely blame the manager. He should be shouting and screaming at them to wake up, he does nothing of the kind.  I don't even think he can see it. When things go wrong, his only solution is to change a few players for the next game and hope that works. The Utd team are just too nice, and that largely comes from the manager. I don't just look at teams like City, Liverpool.or Chelsea and envy their managers. I look at Leicester, Brighton and Brentford and envy their managers.
		
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Klopp and Pep are good but they aren’t that good - he is just not very good 

And Maguire was highly rated because he was English and is good in the air - people thought he was the next John Terry but IMO he was overrated on the back of the World Cup - decent player but not a top level CB

As for OGS - he isn’t good enough , never has been and he hasnt proven himself at the top level , was fine as a caretaker but as soon as Pochettino was free they should have grabbed him - no chance now. He spends the whole game sat down quiet as a mouse , you see Klopp and Pep constantly on their feet directing , barking instructions, giving encouragement. His Ferguson clone interviews are also cringeworthy. 

They have some big games coming now


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## Swango1980 (Oct 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp and Pep are good but they aren’t that good - he is just not very good

And Maguire was highly rated because he was English and is good in the air - people thought he was the next John Terry but IMO he was overrated on the back of the World Cup - decent player but not a top level CB

As for OGS - he isn’t good enough , never has been and he hasnt proven himself at the top level , was fine as a caretaker but as soon as Pochettino was free they should have grabbed him - no chance now. He spends the whole game sat down quiet as a mouse , you see Klopp and Pep constantly on their feet directing , barking instructions, giving encouragement. His Ferguson clone interviews are also cringeworthy.

They have some big games coming now
		
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I wouldn't say Ferguson clone interviews. He may dream of that, but the interviews have zero substance. After yesterday, he said MAYBE we need to change some things. Really!? I'd say definitely, and it also sounds like he has no clue what needs to change.

Ole is like the person who gets a great job because his dad was owner of the company, rather than getting it on merit.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			A manager who picks a balanced side and coaches them how to defend as a side surely has a fair chance, squad is unbalanced too but isnt a million miles away if coached and set up better than it currently is with 1 or 2 additions
		
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The problem with a balanced side is the players aren’t good enough, you can carry 1 or 2 not 5 or 6.

Yes they can be improved with coaching but there’s a couple of players whose attitudes aren’t right.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It wouldn't surprise me if you put an individual like Fred into the Man City or Liverpool team, their fans would hail him one of the best defensive midfielders in the world. Not because they are deluded, but because Klopp or Pep would have him and the team playing in a way to maximise his abilities. Whereas, if United had Kante or Rice, soon we'd be laughing at how awful they are. Because Ole has no idea how to set up a football team tactically. Maguire was highly rated by many before coming to Utd, he now looks a shadow of that player.

I'm too young to remember what it was like before Fergie started winning trophies, and I know fans wanted him out. But, at least he had achieved things as a manager before Utd. He had grit. He had passion. He had charisma. Ole has achieved nothing and he has none of those traits. And, he has a team of players who, on paper could win trophies, so he can no longer hide behind trying to build a team. If Ole was in charge of the famous Brazilian sides with Pele, or Barcelona 10 or so years ago, he'd win nothing.

Yes, Utd have players who do not work hard enough. Yes, we can blame them to some extent. But, largely blame the manager. He should be shouting and screaming at them to wake up, he does nothing of the kind.  I don't even think he can see it. When things go wrong, his only solution is to change a few players for the next game and hope that works. The Utd team are just too nice, and that largely comes from the manager. I don't just look at teams like City, Liverpool.or Chelsea and envy their managers. I look at Leicester, Brighton and Brentford and envy their managers.
		
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We’ve seen many posts on here slagging Henderson and Bobby saying they’re not good enough or wouldn’t get into this team or that team. Football isn’t played on paper and having a team full of  galactico’s rarely works for a sustained  period of time.

Fred wouldn’t be the best CM in the world if he played for us, Klopp would use him do to a particular job for the TEAM   and there’s no doubt he’d do well  like Henderson does.

Maguire was a big fish in a small pond. The price tag was excessive and his ability is limited. It’s simple things like positioning and being too slow. He makes more last ditch tackles than the real quality CB’s do. He’s average at best.

Ferguson had loads of qualities and he was a ruthless bully. He instilled fear into those yernited sides. The game has changed, no manager can succeed that way with these players.

Shouting and screaming at players rarely works neither. He needs to take responsibility and those players do too.

The ideal scenario is for Yernited to put in a performance in Europe on Wednesday then we roll them over on Sunday 😉


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## arnieboy (Oct 17, 2021)

Right, time to talk up Spurs chances in the cauldron that is St James Park this afternoon.  Same Newcastle team, same manager but can the atmosphere swing it for the Toon?


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## pauljames87 (Oct 17, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Right, time to talk up Spurs chances in the cauldron that is St James Park this afternoon.  Same Newcastle team, same manager but can the atmosphere swing it for the Toon?
		
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Unless the spurs of a few years ago show up I can only see a Newcastle win

The mood around the club / city seems to be that of jubilation.. party time 

Spurs arent in the best of form. Kane can't seem to score 

They have 2 players isolating with covid 

And just look disjointed

2-1 Newcastle


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Right, time to talk up Spurs chances in the cauldron that is St James Park this afternoon.  Same Newcastle team, same manager but can the atmosphere swing it for the Toon?
		
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I’m calling it a draw. Spurs desperately need Kane firing on all cylinders.


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## Voyager EMH (Oct 17, 2021)




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## harpo_72 (Oct 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The problem with a balanced side is the players aren’t good enough, you can carry 1 or 2 not 5 or 6.

Yes they can be improved with coaching but there’s a couple of players whose attitudes aren’t right.
		
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Just watched the highlights Varane’s injury probably pulled McGuire back too early, he looked off the pace. 
But the closing down was poor, I don’t think it’s a case of the players don’t know what to do .. the concept is simple. I don’t blame the manager either, I don’t see a need to explain at this level the closing down concept. I agree there should be an outlet but the press was poor. The midfield was poor, Pogba is a disaster, Fernandez is awol , Matic is not fast enough .. they need a proper cdm that breaks up the play. They also need to drill the wingers to cover the backs when they come up. 
By not pressing up the pitch they don’t win the ball back and they definitely don’t have the capacity to pass back and build .. 

Madrid are crap like this, they shipped a lot of goals .


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Just watched the highlights Varane’s injury probably pulled McGuire back too early, he looked off the pace.
But the closing down was poor, I don’t think it’s a case of the players don’t know what to do .. the concept is simple. I don’t blame the manager either, I don’t see a need to explain at this level the closing down concept. I agree there should be an outlet but the press was poor. The midfield was poor, Pogba is a disaster, Fernandez is awol , Matic is not fast enough .. they need a proper cdm that breaks up the play. They also need to drill the wingers to cover the backs when they come up.
By not pressing up the pitch they don’t win the ball back and they definitely don’t have the capacity to pass back and build ..

Madrid are crap like this, they shipped a lot of goals .
		
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I'm currently watching it on SS2, Pogba is just strolling around the pitch. You would expect someone with his ability to drag the team by the scruff of the neck and lead by example.  His hair is nice though.

A fully fit maguire is average too.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm currently watching it on SS2, Pogba is just strolling around the pitch. You would expect someone with his ability to drag the team by the scruff of the neck and lead by example.  His hair is nice though.

A fully fit maguire is average too.
		
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Ronaldo was the same...sauntering around waiting for the ball all the time.
Personally, I think bring him back has created a bigger problem.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Ronaldo was the same...sauntering around waiting for the ball all the time.
Personally, I think bring him back has created a bigger problem.
		
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Yeah can't disagree, but that's what you get with him. 

He's still got it  to win them games single handedly, I'm not sure he's got the desire to pick them up week after week.

AWB a great defender is an absolute myth.


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## Billysboots (Oct 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah can't disagree, but that's what you get with him.

He's still got it  to win them games single handedly, I'm not sure he's got the desire to pick them up week after week.

AWB a great defender is an absolute myth.
		
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I keep banging on about it, but it’s a really strange signing. Cavani will score goals - he has done wherever he’s played, and has shown at United that he still can. By signing Ronaldo, doubtless still capable of individual brilliance, it totally undermines any team ethic.

I watched the extended highlights last night with Neville’s words ringing in my ears and he was absolutely bang on the money. Once Leicester had managed to play through United’s front five, there was nothing to stop them. The midfield defensive void was massive, with Matic trying to do the work of those around him.

Time and again, as Leicester piled forward, you caught glimpses of Sancho, Greenwood and Pogba ambling back. Sancho’s tracking back, in particular, was truly awful, with Leicester finding acres of space down their right.

Is that down to the players or manager? Pogba will never change and has proven repeatedly he can’t be relied upon to work defensively. He’s a luxury, but one who can be afforded if those around him work hard. Those around him don’t.

Sancho and Greenwood are young enough to learn. It strikes me that they simply aren’t being told they have a responsibility when they lose the ball to work their nuts off to get it back. Neither would last five minutes in a Guardiola side.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 17, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Sancho and Greenwood are young enough to learn. It strikes me that they simply aren’t being told they have a responsibility when they lose the ball to work their nuts off to get it back. Neither would last five minutes in a Guardiola side.
		
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When Ronaldo was announed, it was said he would inspire those around him including the younger players or his work ethic etc.
Well it seems his ethic has rubbed off already.
Would those youngsters be allowed to amble around like that under Pep or Klopp?...No they would be off straight away with a flea in their ear.


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## Billysboots (Oct 17, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			When Ronaldo was announed, it was said he would inspire those around him including the younger players or his work ethic etc.
Well it seems his ethic has rubbed off already.
Would those youngsters be allowed to amble around like that under Pep or Klopp?...No they would be off straight away with a flea in their ear.
		
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Indeed. 

And with regards to Pogba, I’m sick of people asking why he can’t reproduce his international form when he pulls on a United shirt. The answer is simple. When Pogba plays for France he has Kante there to do his dirty work.

Anyone who closely followed Leicester City’s incredible title win will tell you, it wasn’t Vardy who was the star performer that season. It was Kante.

I’d love to see him in a United shirt.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			When Ronaldo was announed, it was said he would inspire those around him including the younger players or his work ethic etc.
Well it seems his ethic has rubbed off already.
Would those youngsters be allowed to amble around like that under Pep or Klopp?...No they would be off straight away with a flea in their ear.
		
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United have saved tonnes of money on chocolate brownies and apple pie and custard though, so the deal is already paying for itself.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 17, 2021)

Ronaldo is a great signing although yesterday wasn’t his best performance but overall he’s a great asset.
I’m more worried about Sancho,hasn’t done nothing since he’s arrived,yesterday playing in his apparent best position didn’t take the full back on once.
Players ambling around like it was a friendly,these players need a rollicking.
I’m a football coach and field my best team I feel best,if they amble around or don’t work hard I’m on to them,Ole is not.
Get em off and get the workers on.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 17, 2021)

What a save by Pickford there to keep it 1-0


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## Fade and Die (Oct 17, 2021)

Well done chaps, onwards and upwards. Was surprised how poor Everton were to be honest. A goal down with 10 minutes to go and just standing of us. Would be disappointed if I was a supporter.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 17, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Well done chaps, onwards and upwards. Was surprised how poor Everton were to be honest. A goal down with 10 minutes to go and just standing of us. Would be disappointed if I was a supporter.
		
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Think it would have been different game with Richarlson and DCL

However I thought Godfrey was awful 

Johnson did well filling in at the back for us 

Don't get what we have to do to see vlasic


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## Piece (Oct 17, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I don’t like singling out individuals when a team has played poorly, but Danny Rose has put in as bad a performance as I have seen in years. Shockingly, embarrassingly poor.
		
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Harry Maguire....hold my beer! 😉


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## Billysboots (Oct 17, 2021)

Piece said:



			Harry Maguire....hold my beer! 😉
		
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Hard to disagree. 💩


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2021)

uh oh Newcastle are losing

Heads will roll


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2021)

So for the ones who say, why do linoes not flag when they think it's obviously offside........that Spurs 2nd in a nutshell.


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			So for the ones who say, why do linoes not flag when they think it's obviously offside........that Spurs 2nd in a nutshell.
		
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just begs the question why didnt they do so in the Chelsea game yesterday


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## Piece (Oct 17, 2021)

Good example of why the linos don't put the flag up straight away.

Loving the soured look on the new owners faces!


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			just begs the question why didnt they do so in the Chelsea game yesterday 

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I didnt see that one properly, guv.

You'll be used to that answer with Arsene.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Unless the spurs of a few years ago show up I can only see a Newcastle win

The mood around the club / city seems to be that of jubilation.. party time

Spurs arent in the best of form. Kane can't seem to score

They have 2 players isolating with covid

And just look disjointed

2-1 Newcastle
		
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Looks like I didn't realise just how bad Newcastles players are ATM ..

I mean longstaff? I remember when Newcastle fans on twitter were saying he was miles better than rice .. lol 🤣🤣 who then scored that day when they lost 

The new owners have a lot to buy 

Saint maxiam and Wilson decent tho


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## fundy (Oct 17, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I didnt see that one properly, guv.

You'll be used to that answer with Arsene. 

Click to expand...


ah, those were the days


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## Piece (Oct 17, 2021)

Wishing that person in the crowd all the best 🙏


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## Billysboots (Oct 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Looks like I didn't realise just how bad Newcastles players are ATM ..

I mean longstaff? I remember when Newcastle fans on twitter were saying he was miles better than rice .. lol 🤣🤣 who then scored that day when they lost

The new owners have a lot to buy

Saint maxiam and Wilson decent tho
		
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I think Newcastle have a real plight on their hands. On the one hand they now have cash on the hip, but on the other there is a real risk they’ll get relegated before any significant change in playing staff.

As we all know, big signings in January are relatively uncommon, especially if the selling club is fighting for honours at home and in Europe, so it is unlikely Newcastle will get in the players they need before next summer at the earliest.

And that is where the big problem lies. The manager, be that Steve Bruce or whoever the new owners bring in, will have to keep this squad of players up. It’s absolutely vital. Because if they go down, getting quality signings through the door will be all but impossible.

If any Newcastle fan thinks their problems have disappeared with Mike Ashley, they are being a tad naive.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 17, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I think Newcastle have a real plight on their hands. On the one hand they now have cash on the hip, but on the other there is a real risk they’ll get relegated before any significant change in playing staff.

As we all know, big signings in January are relatively uncommon, especially if the selling club is fighting for honours at home and in Europe, so it is unlikely Newcastle will get in the players they need before next summer at the earliest.

And that is where the big problem lies. The manager, be that Steve Bruce or whoever the new owners bring in, will have to keep this squad of players up. It’s absolutely vital. Because if they go down, getting quality signings through the door will be all but impossible.

If any Newcastle fan thinks their problems have disappeared with Mike Ashley, they are being a tad naive.
		
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First of all hope that fan is ok. I think they just said the person will be ok 

Hats off to the players for alerting the ref. Top work .. 

Signings are their in January if you go right 

I can see lingard being bid for 

I mean January is possible even just us recently we have signed 

Bowen
Soucek 
Lingard 

All Jan work just got to do the right bidding 

And with their cash. The sky's the limit 

Don't go for top draw just go for get out of trouble


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## Piece (Oct 17, 2021)

Piece said:



			Wishing that person in the crowd all the best 🙏
		
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Just said has been stabilised and on way to hospital. 💪👏


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## Dando (Oct 17, 2021)

I’m sure the commentators just said there are plenty of clubs who’d love to have Bruce as their manager 🤣


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## chrisd (Oct 17, 2021)

Dando said:



			I’m sure the commentators just said there are plenty of clubs who’d love to have Bruce as their manager 🤣
		
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Not good clubs though !


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 17, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Not good clubs though !
		
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My boys under 13 team is looking for a new manager. We'd have him.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2021)

Classy interview from Kane and Region about the guy in the stands.
Hope he’s ok.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			My boys under 13 team is looking for a new manager. We'd have him.
		
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Are they that desperate?


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## Dando (Oct 17, 2021)




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## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2021)

What an idiot Shelvey is .
The first yellow was just being a spoilt brat.
Second was not nessesary the lad still had to beat the CB and the keeper.
His team mates won’t be happy with him.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 17, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Are they that desperate?
		
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Well they lost 8-0 today and their best result so far this season is a 7-1 defeat so they're probably at the right level to get Bruce as a manager.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 17, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Not good clubs though !
		
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Reckon Norwich could appointment him and then actually stay in the league one time


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## pauljames87 (Oct 17, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			What an idiot Shelvey is .
The first yellow was just being a spoilt brat.
Second was not nessesary the lad still had to beat the CB and the keeper.
His team mates won’t be happy with him.
		
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Will they not? Means they don't have to play with the idiot for a few games.. liability


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## chrisd (Oct 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			My boys under 13 team is looking for a new manager. We'd have him.
		
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He'll do it until the team up the road offer him a job, like when he forced a move from Selhurst Park,


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## nickjdavis (Oct 17, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			If any Newcastle fan thinks their problems have disappeared with Mike Ashley, they are being a tad naive.
		
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They havent. We just have a chance of solving those problems without Ashley.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			My boys under 13 team is looking for a new manager. We'd have him.
		
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Would you prefer Bruce or Ole for your boys team?


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 17, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Would you prefer Bruce or Ole for your boys team?
		
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Bruce. At least he tries to look interested in what's going on. I wouldn't be surprised to see the cameras pan to Ole in the dug out and see him sitting there reading a book.


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## OntheteeGavin (Oct 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Bruce. At least he tries to look interested in what's going on. I wouldn't be surprised to see the cameras pan to Ole in the dug out and see him sitting there reading a book.
		
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Seen the FA cup draw ColchesterFC? Dream for myself as I follow both.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 17, 2021)

OntheteeGavin said:



			Seen the FA cup draw ColchesterFC? Dream for myself as I follow both.
		
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I did see on Twitter that we'd be losing away to Sudbury in the first round of the FA Cup.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			What an idiot Shelvey is .
The first yellow was just being a spoilt brat.
Second was not nessesary the lad still had to beat the CB and the keeper.
His team mates won’t be happy with him.
		
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That was as empty headed as a player can be. Appallingly unprofessional.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 18, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That was as empty headed as a player can be. Appallingly unprofessional.
		
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I think he sees himself like an Iniesta type player, but reality is nowhere near. Not even an automatic starter in a struggling Newcastle side. Did he forget he was already on a yellow? Bizarre challenge to make when you know you have already been booked.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 18, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I think he sees himself like an Iniesta type player, but reality is nowhere near. Not even an automatic starter in a struggling Newcastle side. Did he forget he was already on a yellow? Bizarre challenge to make when you know you have already been booked.
		
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Id be impressed if he could spell iniesta


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## Billysboots (Oct 18, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I think he sees himself like an Iniesta type player, but reality is nowhere near. Not even an automatic starter in a struggling Newcastle side. Did he forget he was already on a yellow? Bizarre challenge to make when you know you have already been booked.
		
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He’s never been the sharpest knife in the drawer, has he? Shame, because I’ve always thought he had talent to burn.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 18, 2021)

Dando said:



View attachment 39075

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Apologies to any Newcastle fans but fans but I would love it 😂 if Newcastle were relagated. 

The Arabs would then have a lot longer to wait before they can buy the way to the top. 

It was cringeworthy the cameras kept panning to the new owners draped in their oversize scarfs and taking selfies and looking on their phones


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Apologies to any Newcastle fans but fans but I would love it 😂 if Newcastle were relagated.

The Arabs would then have a lot longer to wait before they can buy the way to the top.

It was cringeworthy the cameras kept panning to the new owners draped in their oversize scarfs and taking selfies and looking on their phones
		
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Did anyone else think that when Shelvey was red carded they were explaining to the main man that they would be down to 10 men?


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## Rlburnside (Oct 18, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Did anyone else think that when Shelvey was red carded they were explaining to the main man that they would be down to 10 men?
		
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Never noticed that but wouldn’t be surprised, must have been great build up and first 15 mins for the fans before reality kicked in. 

Feel for Bruce proper football man and love of Newcastle.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			He’s never been the sharpest knife in the drawer, has he? Shame, because I’ve always thought he had talent to burn.
		
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Yes I agree.
He’s a good footballer and in a good side would thrive.
But he’s still a spoilt brat when things are not going well.


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## Orikoru (Oct 18, 2021)

I've always thought Shelvey was rubbish and overrated when he was younger actually. What does he do besides hammer 60 yard passes out of play and pick up cards?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I've always thought Shelvey was rubbish and overrated when he was younger actually. What does he do besides hammer 60 yard passes out of play and pick up cards?
		
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Yes his discipline record is not good.
But he is good on the ball imo.
But you need movement upfront to play long balls and Newcastle really lack that.


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## Orikoru (Oct 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes his discipline record is not good.
But he is good on the ball imo.
But you need movement upfront to play long balls and Newcastle really lack that.
		
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I respect we may have different opinions here - but I saw an overrated youngster go to Liverpool, try too hard to be the next Gerrard and fail miserably. Since then he's been a mediocre player in some poor teams. Occasionally plays a nice pass, which could be said about any number of Premier League midfielders.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 18, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Never noticed that but wouldn’t be surprised, must have been great build up and first 15 mins for the fans before reality kicked in.

Feel for Bruce proper football man and love of Newcastle.
		
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He’s an awful awful manager, there is absolutely no point skirting around that. How he continually gets jobs with a win % of 35% is ridiculous, and the comments you hear like yday regarding him walking into another job just fuel the feeling amongst Newcastle fans that his chums in the media just blindly stick up for him.  Watching us take the lead then retreat back, but with no defensive shape or plan just sums us up.

As for shelvey, he typifies the Bruce and Ashley era in some respect, over paid and doesn’t offer much.  The previous manager (Benitez) didn’t rate him and he didn’t offer anything to the Benitez team plan, therefore he didn’t play.  Bruce doesn’t have that plan, therefore shelvey plays because he’s a highly paid player.  (Shelvey even said he prefers Bruce, because training is easier ffs). Shelvey was a decent prospect in teens because he makes the odd 40 yard pass, now he’s a luxury player in a non luxury position, in a team that can ill afford luxuries. Even ASM does more running. 

Bruce has to go, just for the clean break. But rumblings of rumours regarding Jones lack of interest in a caretaker role, and the fact if all the Steves (Bruce, Agnew, clemence) went, we wouldn’t have enough coaches to run the place.  It’s a bit of a concern and something they clearly need to get in order quick.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I respect we may have different opinions here - but I saw an overrated youngster go to Liverpool, try too hard to be the next Gerrard and fail miserably. Since then he's been a mediocre player in some poor teams. Occasionally plays a nice pass, which could be said about any number of Premier League midfielders.
		
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Well agree he was never going to replace Gerrard.
I think his attitude has stopped him being a better player.
He has the talent I am sure, but he can’t control himself when things get tough.
He always looks like he’s just lost a tenner.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 18, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			He’s an awful awful manager, there is absolutely no point skirting around that. *How he continually gets jobs with a win % of 35% is ridiculous*, and the comments you hear like yday regarding him walking into another job just fuel the feeling amongst Newcastle fans that his chums in the media just blindly stick up for him.  Watching us take the lead then retreat back, but with no defensive shape or plan just sums us up.

As for shelvey, he typifies the Bruce and Ashley era in some respect, over paid and doesn’t offer much.  The previous manager (Benitez) didn’t rate him and he didn’t offer anything to the Benitez team plan, therefore he didn’t play.  Bruce doesn’t have that plan, therefore shelvey plays because he’s a highly paid player.  (Shelvey even said he prefers Bruce, because training is easier ffs). Shelvey was a decent prospect in teens because he makes the odd 40 yard pass, now he’s a luxury player in a non luxury position, in a team that can ill afford luxuries. Even ASM does more running.

Bruce has to go, just for the clean break. But rumblings of rumours regarding Jones lack of interest in a caretaker role, and the fact if all the Steves (Bruce, Agnew, clemence) went, we wouldn’t have enough coaches to run the place.  It’s a bit of a concern and something they clearly need to get in order quick.
		
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Is that bad? Genuinely do not know. It is not great if you are a top manager managing one of the top clubs. But, if you are managing poor teams that are going to do well to stay clear of relegation, then is 35% not reasonable? Surely he cannot be expected to win most of his games (over 50%) with that team. Winning 35% of your games in the PM gets you 39-42 points. Throw in a few draws, you are looking mid table. So, I wouldn't say his record from that standpoint screams to club owners that he should be avoided.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 18, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I respect we may have different opinions here - but I saw an overrated youngster go to Liverpool, try too hard to be the next Gerrard and fail miserably. Since then he's been a mediocre player in some poor teams. Occasionally plays a nice pass, which could be said about any number of Premier League midfielders.
		
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He tries to play a role which has long been out-dated, dropping in front of the cbs to spray the ball up the pitch, any half decent cb can and does do that themselves now.  Where we see midfielders dropping deep to help build play up, he doesn’t and isn’t dynamic enough to offer this.  So he gets in the way, and then he just doesn’t have the legs to be a box to box midfielder, as he showed yesterday.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			He tries to play a role which has long been out-dated, dropping in front of the cbs to spray the ball up the pitch, any half decent cb can and does do that themselves now.  Where we see midfielders dropping deep to help build play up, he doesn’t and isn’t dynamic enough to offer this.  So he gets in the way, and then he just doesn’t have the legs to be a box to box midfielder, as he showed yesterday.
		
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What’s your opinion of St Maximin.?
He looks really good with the ball ,but his final ball / decision making seems erratic at best.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 18, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Is that bad? Genuinely do not know. It is not great if you are a top manager managing one of the top clubs. But, if you are managing poor teams that are going to do well to stay clear of relegation, then is 35% not reasonable? Surely he cannot be expected to win most of his games (over 50%) with that team. Winning 35% of your games in the PM gets you 39-42 points. Throw in a few draws, you are looking mid table. So, I wouldn't say his record from that standpoint screams to club owners that he should be avoided.
		
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It puts him towards the bottom of those who’ve made 1000 games, think Pulis has a similar record.  It’s the fact he continually gets chances, his record for us is actually 27%.  I understand it’s going to do for some chairman, but there’s a disconnect between how he’s lauded, and the reality of the fact he just seems to always drag teams down to a lower part of the league level.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			What’s your opinion of St Maximin.?
He looks really good with the ball ,but his final ball / decision making seems erratic at best.
		
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He’s exciting, I went to the Leeds game and every time he got the ball fans were on their feet.  His decision making and final ball could be better and his positional play at times too, but he really does attract 2/3 defenders every time he gets it, and often gets past them.  Noticed the Leeds game him, almiron and willock didn’t seem to trust anyone else, at times actively playing away from Ritchie and joelinton etc which can lead to them over running and stuff. 

He reminds me a bit of a fifa player, where once it’s been decided he’s going to shoot or pass he then can’t change his mind even if something stops him the first time, he keeps trying until it happens, sometimes it comes off like the Leeds goal, but most often he just ends up in a bit of a cul de sac.  But overall he’s a great great player to watch.  Think we’ll get maybe one maybe 2 more seasons out of him. 

Interesting, just read that Phil fodens agent is one of the ‘football advisors’ to Staveley!!! 😂


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## Swango1980 (Oct 18, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			It puts him towards the bottom of those who’ve made 1000 games, think Pulis has a similar record.  It’s the fact he continually gets chances, his record for us is actually 27%.  I understand it’s going to do for some chairman, but there’s a disconnect between how he’s lauded, and the reality of the fact he just seems to always drag teams down to a lower part of the league level.
		
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That is just it though, does he drag them down, or does he make a good fist of keeping poor teams up? Managers like him, Pulis and Allardyce never / rarely seem to get chances at the better clubs within a league, clubs with bigger budgets and clubs with players who can play nice attacking football. They get typecast into positions where they manage slow, poor quality lethargic teams, and it is their job to try and strength the players mentality and defence, and hope to pick up enough points to keep safe.

It'll never happen, but if any of those managers suddenly found themselves at a big club, I'm sure they would have a much more impressive win %. Sure, probably not as impressive as the "top" managers, nor playing a style of football fans would be impressed with. However, I bet they'd be somewhat more attacking than we know them as being, because suddenly they'd have very different players than they are used to.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well agree he was never going to replace Gerrard.
I think his attitude has stopped him being a better player.
He has the talent I am sure, but he can’t control himself when things get tough.
He always looks like he’s just lost a tenner.
		
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Very good golfer by all accounts… represented Northumbria county team I believe recently.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 18, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			He’s exciting, I went to the Leeds game and every time he got the ball fans were on their feet.  His decision making and final ball could be better and his positional play at times too, but he really does attract 2/3 defenders every time he gets it, and often gets past them.  Noticed the Leeds game him, almiron and willock didn’t seem to trust anyone else, at times actively playing away from Ritchie and joelinton etc which can lead to them over running and stuff.

He reminds me a bit of a fifa player, where once it’s been decided he’s going to shoot or pass he then can’t change his mind even if something stops him the first time, he keeps trying until it happens, sometimes it comes off like the Leeds goal, but most often he just ends up in a bit of a cul de sac.  But overall he’s a great great player to watch.  Think we’ll get maybe one maybe 2 more seasons out of him.

Interesting, just read that Phil fodens agent is one of the ‘football advisors’ to Staveley!!! 😂
		
Click to expand...

Newcastle should buy Traore from Wolves. It would be an entertaining watch with him on the right, and Maximin on the left.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 18, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Newcastle should buy Traore from Wolves. It would be an entertaining watch with him on the right, and Maximin on the left.
		
Click to expand...

In theory we should get that from almiron on the right as a pacy winger, but he’s not really kicked on as hoped and seems to play more through the middle.  But I’d love Traore, I think he’s great and Wilson would relish having him in the team.


----------



## Cherry13 (Oct 18, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			That is just it though, does he drag them down, or does he make a good fist of keeping poor teams up? Managers like him, Pulis and Allardyce never / rarely seem to get chances at the better clubs within a league, clubs with bigger budgets and clubs with players who can play nice attacking football. They get typecast into positions where they manage slow, poor quality lethargic teams, and it is their job to try and strength the players mentality and defence, and hope to pick up enough points to keep safe.

It'll never happen, but if any of those managers suddenly found themselves at a big club, I'm sure they would have a much more impressive win %. Sure, probably not as impressive as the "top" managers, nor playing a style of football fans would be impressed with. However, I bet they'd be somewhat more attacking than we know them as being, because suddenly they'd have very different players than they are used to.
		
Click to expand...

I appreciate I’m probably far too invested to look at it rationally and balanced and see anything other than my already well established view that he’s sh… however, I do strongly stand by that opinion. 

In the case of us, he took a half decent team from Benitez, and made them worse in every measurable output, xg for/against, shots, touches in final third possession, everything went down.  And arguably he has a better team. Wilson, ASM, willock. 
But more than that, it’s the relationship with fans, the hostility and rubbish he spouts regarding ‘his way’ etc. I think he had a difficult time because of Ashley, and he was the voice of the club when he shouldn’t have been through covid and other issues, but we were always going to get to this point that he would drag us down into a relegation scrap. 

Ironically, Allardyces big chance was probably with us to be fair, and Mike Ashley (and the previous owners) did a bit of a job on him.  Was a shame because I think he would have had us in the top half comfortably if he got the investment and time.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			What’s your opinion of St Maximin.?
He looks really good with the ball ,but his final ball / decision making seems erratic at best.
		
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Reminds me very much of Antonio before moyes arrived and coached him to be a striker

Far more effective now  

Even tho he scored before and played well he produces more efficient play


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			He’s exciting, I went to the Leeds game and every time he got the ball fans were on their feet.  His decision making and final ball could be better and his positional play at times too, but he really does attract 2/3 defenders every time he gets it, and often gets past them.  Noticed the Leeds game him, almiron and willock didn’t seem to trust anyone else, at times actively playing away from Ritchie and joelinton etc which can lead to them over running and stuff.

He reminds me a bit of a fifa player, where once it’s been decided he’s going to shoot or pass he then can’t change his mind even if something stops him the first time, he keeps trying until it happens, sometimes it comes off like the Leeds goal, but most often he just ends up in a bit of a cul de sac.  But overall he’s a great great player to watch.  Think we’ll get maybe one maybe 2 more seasons out of him.

Interesting, just read that Phil fodens agent is one of the ‘football advisors’ to Staveley!!! 😂
		
Click to expand...

Given the choice of Traore or St. Maximam, I would go with your guy every time, nearly as good as Traore in full flight but miles better in end product.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 18, 2021)

Whilst not in the prem - Bruce had cash to spend in the championship at Villa but often we signed busts. I dont know if those were his decisions or not...

Enter a new manager and 2 class loanees and we got promoted - playing better football.

I do thank him for John McGinn and pulling JT in for a couple of years. Both smart business.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 18, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			He’s an awful awful manager, there is absolutely no point skirting around that. How he continually gets jobs with a win % of 35% is ridiculous, and the comments you hear like yday regarding him walking into another job just fuel the feeling amongst Newcastle fans that his chums in the media just blindly stick up for him.  Watching us take the lead then retreat back, but with no defensive shape or plan just sums us up.

As for shelvey, he typifies the Bruce and Ashley era in some respect, over paid and doesn’t offer much.  The previous manager (Benitez) didn’t rate him and he didn’t offer anything to the Benitez team plan, therefore he didn’t play.  Bruce doesn’t have that plan, therefore shelvey plays because he’s a highly paid player.  (Shelvey even said he prefers Bruce, because training is easier ffs). Shelvey was a decent prospect in teens because he makes the odd 40 yard pass, now he’s a luxury player in a non luxury position, in a team that can ill afford luxuries. Even ASM does more running. 

Bruce has to go, just for the clean break. But rumblings of rumours regarding Jones lack of interest in a caretaker role, and the fact if all the Steves (Bruce, Agnew, clemence) went, we wouldn’t have enough coaches to run the place.  It’s a bit of a concern and something they clearly need to get in order quick.
		
Click to expand...

I agree as a manager he’s not that good i haven’t watched a full 90 mins of a Newcastle game but I was surprised yesterday how poor your team were, to keep just lumping the ball upfield is very outdated now, poor tactics in defense, all over the place. 

But you’ve got the golden ticket now and 4/5 years it’s possible you should compete with the best 👍


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Newcastle should buy Traore from Wolves. It would be an entertaining watch with him on the right, and Maximin on the left.
		
Click to expand...

The way they shoot though the crowd would be in more danger than the keeper.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Very good golfer by all accounts… represented Northumbria county team I believe recently.
		
Click to expand...

That would explain the face then.
Most golfers I know look like that.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Very good golfer by all accounts… represented Northumbria county team I believe recently.
		
Click to expand...

Northumbria 😳. What century was he playing 😆. Northumberland County team.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

No Zaha a massive bonus for Arsenal tonight cant help think were a body (or two) light in midfield. Its like Artetas is determined to perpetuate the myth of Xhaka by not actually replacing him and then claiming how much we miss him when hes not there lol

Edit: sorry for talking about footie


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 18, 2021)

Good finish but what on earth does Aubamayang think he looks like? Is he trying to look like a pirate? Surely there must be someone in his inner circle with the balls to say "You look ridiculous", or are these players so pampered that they're surrounded by people that just agree with everything they say or do?


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Good finish but what on earth does Aubamayang think he looks like? Is he trying to look like a pirate? Surely there must be someone in his inner circle with the balls to say "You look ridiculous", or are these players so pampered that they're surrounded by people that just agree with everything they say or do?
		
Click to expand...


he can look like coco the clown for all i care as long as hes definitely stopped playing like him


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

Mike Dean playing by his own rules and not booking McArthur lol


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			Mike Dean playing by his own rules and not booking McArthur lol
		
Click to expand...


And a few minutes later could be off......


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			Mike Dean playing by his own rules and not booking McArthur lol
		
Click to expand...

That was so clearly a yellow as well.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			Mike Dean playing by his own rules and not booking McArthur lol
		
Click to expand...

Sadly it's no surprise. I watched the teams walk out and thought "I wonder how Mike Dean is going to make this all about him tonight"?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Sadly it's no surprise. I watched the teams walk out and thought "I wonder how Mike Dean is going to make this all about him tonight"?
		
Click to expand...

standard Mike Dean then


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## BiMGuy (Oct 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			What’s your opinion of St Maximin.?
He looks really good with the ball ,but his final ball / decision making seems erratic at best.
		
Click to expand...

Show pony.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450191951031058441
😲


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## Slime (Oct 18, 2021)

Good, good finish.


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## Slime (Oct 18, 2021)

Pathetic behaviour from Kouyaté.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			Pathetic behaviour from Kouyaté.
		
Click to expand...

What's he done? Went out to get myself another drink and must've missed it.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

get up Pepe you cheating idiot


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## Billysboots (Oct 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			What's he done? Went out to get myself another drink and must've missed it.
		
Click to expand...

Mrs BB has to get me drinks when the footy is on. If I had to get my own I’d miss every goal ever scored. It’s a standing joke in this house - I leave the room, someone scores, without fail.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Mrs BB has to get me drinks when the footy is on. If I had to get my own I’d miss every goal ever scored. It’s a standing joke in this house - I leave the room, someone scores, without fail.
		
Click to expand...


do us a favour and nip out quickly will ya


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## Slime (Oct 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			What's he done? Went out to get myself another drink and must've missed it.
		
Click to expand...

Rolling on the floor, slapping the turf as if his lower jaw had been torn off.
He was barely caught in the cheek by a stray boot that had no force behind it as he and another guy were on the deck.


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## Slime (Oct 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			get up Pepe you cheating idiot
		
Click to expand...

How was he not booked?


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## need_my_wedge (Oct 18, 2021)

Didn't see the first half but Arsenal have been awful in  the second. Lokonga and Gabrielle both playing like they're wearing shoes three sizes too big.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			How was he not booked?
		
Click to expand...

#

Mike Dean playing Mike Dean rules, has got at least 4 card decisions wrong in the game


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			do us a favour and nip out quickly will ya 

Click to expand...

Apparently he did...


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 18, 2021)

Looks like ChrisD my be dancing all over Kent tonight


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			do us a favour and nip out quickly will ya 

Click to expand...


cheers Billy


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

awful yet again, only thing worse than Arsenal was Mike Dean

late goal papers over the cracks yet again


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 18, 2021)

Didn't really want that late Arsenal goal as a neutral but it's certainly boosted my points in the Prem Prediction League this week.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Didn't really want that late Arsenal goal as a neutral but it's certainly boosted my points in the Prem Prediction League this week. 

Click to expand...


shrewd choice the 2-2


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			shrewd choice the 2-2 

Click to expand...

Didn't realise how many had gone for that score. Pokerjoke, pauljames87 and Piece also getting a decent boost from the late Arsenal goal.


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## Billysboots (Oct 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			cheers Billy 

Click to expand...

You see?


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## paddyc (Oct 18, 2021)

Same old Arsenal  performance laboured,, toothless, uninspiring. Too many players going through  the motions. Lucky to get a point.


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## 4LEX (Oct 18, 2021)

I'd like to apolgise to West Ham. I said last season Pepe was a West Ham signing in the making but it's clear he wouldn't even get a game for their reserves. He's now overtaken Bakayoko as the biggest waste of money in Premier League history. Over £70m and £200k a week and has contributed nothing but hundreds of step overs, a load of dives and the odd goal against non entities.

Arteta is clearly struggling but you can't manage a club with so many toxic and lazy players on sky high wages. Arsenal are now a mid table side, they'll finish 7-13th for the foreseeable future.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Same old Arsenal  performance laboured,, toothless, uninspiring. Too many players going through  the motions. Lucky to get a point.
		
Click to expand...


Get used to it, wrong board, wrong director of football, awful tfr window and an insipid manager. Would love to know what they actually do on the training pitch each week......


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## chrisd (Oct 18, 2021)

Shame about another last minute goal but I'd have taken 2-2 before kick off


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

Why do they keep talking about Arteta needing time to get his style with a new bunch of players after nearly 2 years there, having been outplayed by a new Palace side (missing Zaha and Eze) that Viera has had for 2 months who all clearly knew what their roles were (unlike half the Arsenal side)


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			Why do they keep talking about Arteta needing time to get his style with a new bunch of players after nearly 2 years there, having been outplayed by a new Palace side (missing Zaha and Eze) that Viera has had for 2 months who all clearly knew what their roles were (unlike half the Arsenal side)
		
Click to expand...

I looked at the Arsenal line-up and realised just how far they've fallen from being genuine challengers when you look at how many of this Arsenal team would get into the squad of the last Arsenal team to win the league. It's not even a question of how many would get into that team, it's how many would get into that squad. Aubamayang, Saka, Tierney, possibly Lacazette and that's about it. If you compare their squad to Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea they're miles away from being challengers. Even comparing them to the next level down of Man Utd, Leicester, Tottenham they're far behind.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I looked at the Arsenal line-up and realised just how far they've fallen from being genuine challengers when you look at how many of this Arsenal team would get into the squad of the last Arsenal team to win the league. It's not even a question of how many would get into that team, it's how many would get into that squad. Aubamayang, Saka, Tierney, possibly Lacazette and that's about it. If you compare their squad to Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea they're miles away from being challengers. Even comparing them to the next level down of Man Utd, Leicester, Tottenham they're far behind.
		
Click to expand...


I actually think the squad is more encouraging than it was a couple of years ago, albeit thats not saying much. There are some decent youngsters on the books but still massively hamstrung by so many older overpaid squad members that just dont offer anything close to what theyre being paid and a squad that is very unbalanced. Add in they seem to have spent over £150m this summer and not actually managed to improve the starting XI and managing to extend the contract of the biggest problem at the club for another 3 years

The club has massively destroyed asset values the last decade whilst overpaying average at best players; Aubam, Laca, Pepe, Xhaka, Kolasinac, Leno, Mari, Soares, Elneny are on a combined basic of well over £1m a week but hard to argue any of them are close to earning their wages. This summer tfr strategy refused to acknowledge what the side needed now and instead tried to plan for a few years time by which time they may well find themselves in the championship if theyre not careful

Massive change is needed and has been for a long time but instead they keep repeating a lot of the same errors


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## pendodave (Oct 18, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I'd like to apolgise to West Ham. I said last season Pepe was a West Ham signing in the making but it's clear he wouldn't even get a game for their reserves. He's now overtaken Bakayoko as the biggest waste of money in Premier League history. Over £70m and £200k a week and has contributed nothing but hundreds of step overs, a load of dives and the odd goal against non entities.

Arteta is clearly struggling but you can't manage a club with so many toxic and lazy players on sky high wages. Arsenal are now a mid table side, they'll finish 7-13th for the foreseeable future.
		
Click to expand...

If Moyes was managing them, they'd be doing better. Likewise (despite a dodgy result) Benitez. It turns out there's a bit more to being a good manager than being a half decent ex player. Ask Fat Frank...


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450381983092183044
Trying to close a loop hole that some have used it seems


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

With the Man Utd / Liverpool game coming up ( expecting a dull draw )

They did the old combined 11


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450221630572093442
They agreed on 8 players 

Alisson
TAA
VVD
Robertson
Henderson 
Fabinho 
Mane 
Salah 

Carra went for 
Matip
Fernandes 
Greenwood 

Neville went for 

Maguire 
Firmino 
Ronaldo 


For me Carra has it about right 

Matip is superb and been our best CB this season , Fernandes is the best attacking mid and has played well and Greenwood is superb


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450381983092183044
Trying to close a loop hole that some have used it seems
		
Click to expand...

"Newcastle voted against and* Manchester City abstained*, with both questioning the legality of the move."

What a surprise!


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2021)

Regarding Man Utd Liverpool combined XI, for me it's...

*Alisson
Trent - Van Dijk - Varane - Robertson
Bruno - Fabinho - Pogba
Salah - Ronaldo - Mane*​


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Regarding Man Utd Liverpool combined XI, for me it's...

*Alisson
Trent - Van Dijk - Varane - Robertson
Bruno - Fabinho - Pogba
Salah - Ronaldo - Mane*​

Click to expand...

Pogba . Seriously?


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Pogba . Seriously?
		
Click to expand...

I'm just going on peak ability, we all know he doesn't show it often enough though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Regarding Man Utd Liverpool combined XI, for me it's...

*Alisson
Trent - Van Dijk - Varane - Robertson
Bruno - Fabinho - Pogba
Salah - Ronaldo - Mane*​

Click to expand...

pogba 😳😳😳😳😳

and Varane hasn’t really pulled up trees this season


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm just going on peak ability, we all know he doesn't show it often enough though.
		
Click to expand...

Ah, the old 1 in 6 game performance . That game where the co commentator tells us it is nice to see the real Pogba , who is the imposter the rest of the time? Fair enough .


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, the old 1 in 6 game performance . That game where the co commentator tells us it is nice to see the real Pogba , who is the imposter the rest of the time? Fair enough .
		
Click to expand...

Bit harsh that mate he’s only on £300k pw,you can’t expect him to do it every game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Bit harsh that mate he’s only on £300k pw,you can’t expect him to do it every game.
		
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That's a fair point . Unrealistic expectations and all that.


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## SteveW86 (Oct 19, 2021)

Would Pogba play better though with Fabinho in the team with him? He seems to do pretty well when he has Kante there to look after him.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			With the Man Utd / Liverpool game coming up ( expecting a dull draw )

They did the old combined 11


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450221630572093442
They agreed on 8 players

Alisson
TAA
VVD
Robertson
Henderson
Fabinho
Mane
Salah

Carra went for
Matip
Fernandes
Greenwood

Neville went for

Maguire
Firmino
Ronaldo


For me Carra has it about right

Matip is superb and been our best CB this season , Fernandes is the best attacking mid and has played well and Greenwood is superb
		
Click to expand...

These things are pointless, it just creates more tension in the build up to games.

2 things surprised me.

1. The best defence in the PL never got in 🤭
2. Neville's reasoning for sticking maguire in. He said "Matip only looks good because he plays next to VVD" then stuck Maguire in whose average at best🤷‍♂️

How has Firmino got in?? Those who've played the game won't be happy, oh wait a minute 🤔😁


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Would Pogba play better though with Fabinho in the team with him? He seems to do pretty well when he has Kante there to look after him.
		
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For me, anyone suggesting he can't play well without Kante is talking absolute bollocks.

Yes, having kante around him allows him to be expressive and show his ability but we're talking about a top professional here not a 17yo kid. He needs to take responsibility for his own performances.

I'd have Henderson over him every day of the week. I'm not Henderson's biggest fan neither 

If he put the same effort in on the pitch as he does with his hair do's we wouldn't be discussing his performances.

IMO it boils down to his attitude.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, *the old 1 in 16 game* performance . That game where the co commentator tells us it is nice to see the real Pogba , who is the imposter the rest of the time? Fair enough .
		
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you 😉


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## SteveW86 (Oct 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			For me, anyone suggesting he can't play well without Kante is talking absolute bollocks.

Yes, having kante around him allows him to be expressive and show his ability but we're talking about a top professional here not a 17yo kid. He needs to take responsibility for his own performances.

I'd have Henderson over him every day of the week. I'm not Henderson's biggest fan neither

If he put the same effort in on the pitch as he does with his hair do's we wouldn't be discussing his performances.

IMO it boils down to his attitude.
		
Click to expand...

Oh his attitude definitely sucks looking in from the outside, he wouldnt make my 11 from the two sides.

Would be easy to blame Ole, but it was the same problem under Mourinho.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Regarding Man Utd Liverpool combined XI, for me it's...

*Alisson
Trent - Van Dijk - Varane - Robertson
Bruno - Fabinho - Pogba
Salah - Ronaldo - Mane*​

Click to expand...

I'm a Utd fan, but Pogba? No point in picking a player on peak ability, better to pick a player who proves they are good in practice on a consistent basis. He does nothing of the sort for Man Utd. On the same logic, you could put Nani as one of the best players to play in the Premier League. However, for every 1 great game, he had 20 in which he was awful.

I'm even starting to question Bruno (marginally). Now that teams have figured out Utd (in the early Ole days, the out and out attack caught teams out compared to the days under Mourinho), none of the attackers have really covered themselves in glory. He does still create chances and has the potential to be a great Man Utd player. But, he gives the ball away a lot, and I question does he take too many risks? We need midfielders who can also control the game and possession, but it is either a defence splitting pass from him, or lose possession and get hammered on the counter.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			For me, anyone suggesting he can't play well without Kante is talking absolute bollocks.

Yes, having kante around him allows him to be expressive and show his ability but we're talking about a top professional here not a 17yo kid. He needs to take responsibility for his own performances.

I'd have Henderson over him every day of the week. I'm not Henderson's biggest fan neither 

If he put the same effort in on the pitch as he does with his hair do's we wouldn't be discussing his performances.

IMO it boils down to his attitude.
		
Click to expand...

I hope the Mods are on to you Stu
Read the rules about swearing 
It’s always the same people.
It’s all about attitude


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm a Utd fan, but Pogba? No point in picking a player on peak ability, better to pick a player who proves they are good in practice on a consistent basis. He does nothing of the sort for Man Utd. On the same logic, you could put Nani as one of the best players to play in the Premier League. However, for every 1 great game, he had 20 in which he was awful.

I'm even starting to question Bruno (marginally). Now that teams have figured out Utd (in the early Ole days, the out and out attack caught teams out compared to the days under Mourinho), none of the attackers have really covered themselves in glory. He does still create chances and has the potential to be a great Man Utd player. But, he gives the ball away a lot, and I question does he take too many risks? We need midfielders who can also control the game and possession, but it is either a defence splitting pass from him, or lose possession and get hammered on the counter.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just looked at the Liverpool midfielders and I didn't really rate any of them higher than Pogba (except Fabinho). If Wijnaldum was still there I'd have picked him. Henderson I think is a bit meh personally. Keita, average. I rate Milner and nearly put him in but he's obviously getting on a bit now. Thiago I basically forgot he even existed. Liverpool's strength isn't really in their midfield. Maybe I'll put Firmino in for Pogba and make it even more attacking.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I just looked at the Liverpool midfielders and I didn't really rate any of them higher than Pogba (except Fabinho). If Wijnaldum was still there I'd have picked him. Henderson I think is a bit meh personally. Keita, average. I rate Milner and nearly put him in but he's obviously getting on a bit now. Thiago I basically forgot he even existed. Liverpool's strength isn't really in their midfield. Maybe I'll put Firmino in for Pogba and make it even more attacking. 

Click to expand...


the Ole approach you mean


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I hope the Mods are on to you Stu
Read the rules about swearing
It’s always the same people.
It’s all about attitude

Click to expand...

Nobody likes a snidey snitching 2 hunt Tony.
I only said Henderson🤷‍♂️


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## pokerjoke (Oct 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Nobody likes a snidey snitching 2 hunt Tony.
I only said Henderson🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

It would only be Snidey if I went behind your back.
Swearing is not needed to get your point across 🎻


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

So Anthony Taylor ref for the match and Atwell on VAR 😂😂😂😂 odds on a Man Utd pen have been dramatically reduced


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Anthony Taylor ref for the match and Atwell on VAR 😂😂😂😂 odds on a Man Utd pen have been dramatically reduced
		
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Liverpool fans getting their excuses in 5 days early


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## pokerjoke (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Anthony Taylor ref for the match and Atwell on VAR 😂😂😂😂 odds on a Man Utd pen have been dramatically reduced
		
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Or increased
You know we are going to win
And remember we are crap


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			It would only be Snidey if I went behind your back.
Swearing is not needed to get your point across 🎻
		
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No it wouldn't. It's snide behaviour but then I expect nothing less from your good self. 
Sir sir sir, he swore....pathetic.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			No it wouldn't. It's snide behaviour but then I expect nothing less from your good self. 
Sir sir sir, he swore....pathetic.
		
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Lol
Have a good week Stu because next weekends going to get worse when you lose


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

Does anyone know why Steve Bruce is still in a job? I get giving him his 1,000th game was a nice touch but surely Monday was the day to say thank you, here's a big cheque. Keeping him just gives allows more games and points to drift.

I'm not really seeing any clear suggestions, any whispers outside of the bookies odds?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does anyone know why Steve Bruce is still in a job? I get giving him his 1,000th game was a nice touch but surely Monday was the day to say thank you, here's a big cheque. Keeping him just gives allows more games and points to drift.

I'm not really seeing any clear suggestions, any whispers outside of the bookies odds?
		
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Still in a job because there aren’t many willing to come into a team looking at relegation


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still in a job because there aren’t many willing to come into a team looking at relegation
		
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Big salary, big project, money to spend. Perhaps they are aiming too high at this point with their hoped for candidates?


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Big salary, big project, money to spend. Perhaps they are aiming too high at this point with their hoped for candidates?
		
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They maybe want a bit of time to find the "right" candidate. Even finding a temporary manager until the end of the season has to be considered carefully, given they are in a relegation dog fight.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Big salary, big project, money to spend. Perhaps they are aiming too high at this point with their hoped for candidates?
		
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When it comes to these situations Bruce is normally one of the managers they go for - along with Allardyce, Moyes etc 

They aren’t going to get a top level manager - so it’s looking at managers like Howe , Lampard even ones like Gerrard will prob turn it down mid season.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does anyone know why Steve Bruce is still in a job? I get giving him his 1,000th game was a nice touch but surely Monday was the day to say thank you, here's a big cheque. Keeping him just gives allows more games and points to drift.

I'm not really seeing any clear suggestions, any whispers outside of the bookies odds?
		
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whos going to get more out of this group before they can spend money in January thats available?


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does anyone know why Steve Bruce is still in a job? I get giving him his 1,000th game was a nice touch but surely Monday was the day to say thank you, here's a big cheque. Keeping him just gives allows more games and points to drift.

I'm not really seeing any clear suggestions, any whispers outside of the bookies odds?
		
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Who is available that's guaranteed to do better with such a poor squad?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			whos going to get more out of this group before they can spend money in January thats available?
		
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They can't get less. Benitez did better with a weaker squad, no Saint Maximin, no goalscorer in Wilson. He set the team up with a plan, you can't say that with the current team.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They can't get less. Benitez did better with a weaker squad, no Saint Maximin, no goalscorer in Wilson. He set the team up with a plan, you can't say that with the current team.
		
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and yet you still dont answer the question


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They can't get less. Benitez did better with a weaker squad, no Saint Maximin, no goalscorer in Wilson. He set the team up with a plan, you can't say that with the current team.
		
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Last 4 seasons it’s been 10th , 13th , 13th and 12th

Two with Rafa and Two with Bruce

So who comes in 🤷‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Who is available that's guaranteed to do better with such a poor squad?
		
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There are never guarantees but they need to do something. I'm not sure they need to wait for someone to be available. They have the funds to buy out anyone's contract if they want them badly enough. 

I know that these discussions will be happening but I'm surprised they haven't let Bruce go and put one of the coaches in charge just to shake things up.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			and yet you still dont answer the question 

Click to expand...

Ah, you want a name. It depends where the club are aiming but if it was me I'd go to Rangers and get Gerrard.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, you want a name. It depends where the club are aiming but if it was me I'd go to Rangers and get Gerrard.
		
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Wouldnt be my choice, partly because of lack of experience partly because long term if he was a success Id think he would always leave if the Liverpool job came knocking, think with the money available in January Id want someone with a track record of spending big bucks and ideally with premier league experience

That said the top 10 or 12 in the betting are a mix of unproven and unrealistic options, be interesting to see who is in charge come January


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## Cherry13 (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does anyone know why Steve Bruce is still in a job? I get giving him his 1,000th game was a nice touch but surely Monday was the day to say thank you, here's a big cheque. Keeping him just gives allows more games and points to drift.

I'm not really seeing any clear suggestions, any whispers outside of the bookies odds?
		
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Emery the name I’ve seen/heard doing the rounds most recently, and apparantly Howe has come back into consideration. 

I suspect they are lining up a few positions to get things set for Jan, DoF, CEO (charnley represented them at the vote the other day for gods sake), and then manager as well.  

Id be very surprised if many managers (other than the elite like conte) would turn it down, but I would be interested if any managers have ruled themselves out due to the saudi connection, I suspect the money will be green enough. 

Interesting also that klopp was the only manager to directly address the PIF investment and cal it out, do wonder if that’s also linked to FSGs dislike of staveley? But also wonder if they’ll still refuse to deal with her if we offer silly money for a fringe player?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2021)

Very impressive performance from City tonight and nice to see another young English lad (Cole Palmer) come on and get his first CL goal.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Wouldnt be my choice, partly because of lack of experience partly because long term if he was a success Id think he would always leave if the Liverpool job came knocking, think with the money available in January Id want someone with a track record of spending big bucks and ideally with premier league experience

That said the top 10 or 12 in the betting are a mix of unproven and unrealistic options, be interesting to see who is in charge come January
		
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It's a tough one to get right. They need to get out of their current mess but also be able to attract decent names going forward. It would be easier if they were comfortably mid table but that isn't where they are at.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a tough one to get right. They need to get out of their current mess but also be able to attract decent names going forward. It would be easier if they were comfortably mid table but that isn't where they are at.
		
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theres a guy called Arteta in London who specialises in mid table, you could have him


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## Cherry13 (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a tough one to get right. They need to get out of their current mess but also be able to attract decent names going forward. It would be easier if they were comfortably mid table but that isn't where they are at.
		
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Howe, favre and fonseca the shortlist according to 90mins (no idea if they’re reliable, but they are top 3 with bookies).  Two of those have ‘history’ with current star players which could be a worry. Favre and ASM, and Howe and Wilson.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Lol
Have a good week Stu because next weekends going to get worse when you lose 

Click to expand...

When you're emotionly attached to your local side it always tastes sweeter when you beat your local rivals, it wont have the same effect being 100's of miles away😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Emery the name I’ve seen/heard doing the rounds most recently, and apparantly Howe has come back into consideration.

I suspect they are lining up a few positions to get things set for Jan, DoF, CEO (charnley represented them at the vote the other day for gods sake), and then manager as well. 

Id be very surprised if many managers (other than the elite like conte) would turn it down, but I would be interested if any managers have ruled themselves out due to the saudi connection, I suspect the money will be green enough.

Interesting also that klopp was the only manager to directly address the PIF investment and cal it out, do wonder if that’s also linked to FSGs dislike of staveley? But also wonder if they’ll still refuse to deal with her if we offer silly money for a fringe player?
		
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Howe is a decent shout but I wonder if he will be a big enough name for the owners. He ticks a lot of boxes though and could step in straight away.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, you want a name. It depends where the club are aiming but if it was me I'd go to Rangers and get Gerrard.
		
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Aside from the fact the Scottish league is awful, why on earth would Gerrard leave Rangers (who I presume the fans think he is a bit of a legend now) to go to Newcastle to fight relegation with an awful side? It would only be for the money. He can easily build his reputation up in Scotland until a top team in another league comes calling. Whereas at Newcastle he risks joining a team who he may not improve, they get relegated, and his reputation unfortunately tarnished. 

I find it somewhat odd that on one hand Newcastle fans were desperate to get rid of Ashley due to lack of investment, yet also seem to expect miracles from the manager in getting results from the poor team they've ended up with. Might be able to get a good run of results done seasons, but inevitably it wont happen every season. Bruce will go sooner or later, probably sooner. But the interim manager will probably be another Bruce type to fight relegation. So, the primary reason to get that manager will not necessarily be because they are better, but simply to freshen things up.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



*Aside from the fact the Scottish league is awful*, why on earth would Gerrard leave Rangers (who I presume the fans think he is a bit of a legend now) to go to Newcastle to fight relegation with an awful side? It would only be for the money. *He can easily build his reputation up in Scotland* until a top team in another league comes calling. Whereas at Newcastle he risks joining a team who he may not improve, they get relegated, and his reputation unfortunately tarnished.

I find it somewhat odd that on one hand Newcastle fans were desperate to get rid of Ashley due to lack of investment, yet also seem to expect miracles from the manager in getting results from the poor team they've ended up with. Might be able to get a good run of results done seasons, but inevitably it wont happen every season. Bruce will go sooner or later, probably sooner. But the interim manager will probably be another Bruce type to fight relegation. So, the primary reason to get that manager will not necessarily be because they are better, but simply to freshen things up.
		
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Given that, is Gerrard actually building a reputation?


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Given that, is Gerrard actually building a reputation?
		
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he already has one doesnt he


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			he already has one doesnt he 

Click to expand...

Don't know what you mean...


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Aside from the fact the Scottish league is awful, why on earth would Gerrard leave Rangers (who I presume the fans think he is a bit of a legend now) to go to Newcastle to fight relegation with an awful side? It would only be for the money. He can easily build his reputation up in Scotland until a top team in another league comes calling. Whereas at Newcastle he risks joining a team who he may not improve, they get relegated, and his reputation unfortunately tarnished.

I find it somewhat odd that on one hand Newcastle fans were desperate to get rid of Ashley due to lack of investment, yet also seem to expect miracles from the manager in getting results from the poor team they've ended up with. Might be able to get a good run of results done seasons, but inevitably it wont happen every season. Bruce will go sooner or later, probably sooner. But the interim manager will probably be another Bruce type to fight relegation. So, the primary reason to get that manager will not necessarily be because they are better, but simply to freshen things up.
		
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Why would he leave? Bigger salary, more money to spend on players, it's a big project that he will be part of from the beginning, the PL is an entirely different level to the SPL.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

I would be surprised if Gerrard left Rangers for Newcastle. 

Think Howe will prob get the role


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## larmen (Oct 19, 2021)

How about Ralph Rangnick for Newcastle?
That’s the guy who took Leipzig from nowhere to the top tables by spending money wisely. Currently doing something in Moscow, the step to Saudi Arabian isn’t far from there.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why would he leave? Bigger salary, more money to spend on players, it's a big project that he will be part of from the beginning, the PL is an entirely different level to the SPL.
		
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As I said, it would be for the money. Buying better players is a risk possibly not worth taking, as he could get relegated by then. And, would Newcastle see him as a long term successor anyway? Possibly not, as Gerrard may not see them as his long term club. As has been mentioned, if he still has a decent reputation when the Liverpool job comes up, he could be in with a big shout there.


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## Beezerk (Oct 19, 2021)

Gerrard would be a massive risk at Newcastle, not enough experience for the job at this current moment imo.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 19, 2021)

larmen said:



			How about Ralph Rangnick for Newcastle?
That’s the guy who took Leipzig from nowhere to the top tables by spending money wisely. Currently doing something in Moscow, the step to Saudi Arabian isn’t far from there.
		
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Hes more been linked in the director of football position than anything. Although I think someone from city (Wilcox I think) is being linked too. 

I would think Gerrard is a shoe in for liverpool 2024 when klopp goes right?  Surely he at least waits until then, and if they don’t come in then he can go to another prem club.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Looking ike a good night for City and Lpool in the CL tonight


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

The death of Spanish football?

To be honest, when Sky lost the rights to Eleven Sports, I lost all interest in Spanish football. I wonder if that killed a lot of interest in the UK at that point.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

this could be a cracker


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Surely Atletico Madrid's goal was offside. The offside player was interfering with Vin Dijk getting across?


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Dortmund 2-0 down in Ajax and Haaland checking flights to Newcastle


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Surely Atletico Madrid's goal was offside. The offside player was interfering with Vin Dijk getting across?
		
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Matip behind keeping them on


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Matip behind keeping them on
		
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Sorry, I meant surely offside because the offside player was stopping Matip getting across. The guy was pretty much on the goal line, well behind Matip


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Gerrard would be a massive risk at Newcastle, not enough experience for the job at this current moment imo.
		
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What names are you hearing?


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Looking ike a good night for City and Lpool in the CL tonight
		
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ooops, well it was for city.......


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## Beezerk (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What names are you hearing?
		
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I’m not really hearing any, mate who is a football coach with ties to the FA says Lampard but for me that would be a worse option that Gerrard. They need someone reasonably big who can bring in some marquee signings come January or they are buggered.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I’m not really hearing any, mate who is a football coach with ties to the FA says Lampard but for me that would be a worse option that Gerrard. They need someone reasonably big who can bring in some marquee signings come January or they are buggered.
		
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Is the manager really going to be the draw? Think they need 2 or 3 additions in january to try and ensure they stay up before a bigger rebuild in the summer, ideally proven prem league players and the right wage offer will attract decent enough short term options to stay up with a manager organising things well (i guess thats why Emery has been linked), longer term Director of football and the overall plan be more important


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Sorry, I meant surely offside because the offside player was stopping Matip getting across. The guy was pretty much on the goal line, well behind Matip
		
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Yep not sure why that wasn’t disallowed


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Sorry, I meant surely offside because the offside player was stopping Matip getting across. The guy was pretty much on the goal line, well behind Matip
		
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Yes that’s what took so long imo.
But shocking defending from Kieta he’s there to stop the short corner.
Man on the edge of the box on his own.
We look out of sorts in midfield it needs changing.

Greizman though proper finisher.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep not sure why that wasn’t disallowed
		
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Matip only dips his toe in.
He should have cleared the ball and the man then it’s offside or a pen.
So he’s offside as he’s interfering.


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## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Howe is a decent shout but I wonder if he will be a big enough name for the owners. He ticks a lot of boxes though and could step in straight away.
		
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I really hope they do get Howe. Relegation confirmed conceding 65 goals in the process and be the richest team in the Championship. 😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

That’s surely not a red card is it 🤷‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s surely not a red card is it 🤷‍♂️
		
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I didn't think so when I first saw it. But on replay, his foot was really high, rather than Firminho ducking down. If I did that (which physically I couldn't) I know there's be a chance of kicking someone in the head. So right decision for me.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2021)

It’s one of them ,he’s looking at the ball. It’s a bit harsh.
Very similar to the Mane one at City on Ederson.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I didn't think so when I first saw it. But on replay, his foot was really high, rather than Firminho ducking down. If I did that (which physically I couldn't) I know there's be a chance of kicking someone in the head. So right decision for me.
		
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Really harsh - no intent etc , but I guess it’s got to be if Manes was against Ederson

Time for Atletico to find a way to even it up - Can’t see Simeone lasting long on the sideline

Starting with Trippier and then De Paul diving around


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really harsh - no intent etc , but I guess it’s got to be if Manes was against Ederson
		
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I don't think intent matters. I'd imagine no player ever tries to kick someone in the head, or intend to break someones leg. It is about how dangerous their attempt is to control or win the ball, regardless of how genuinely they are trying to win it.

I remember Nani got sent off years ago for trying to control a ball that had just gone over his head, and his foot kicked the defender in the head behind him. Greizman's was certainly more of a red than that one, as Griezmem was in a crowd of players, whereas Nani wasn't necessarily aware anyone was near him.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



*I don't think intent matters.* I'd imagine no player ever tries to kick someone in the head, or intend to break someones leg. It is about how dangerous their attempt is to control or win the ball, regardless of how genuinely they are trying to win it.

I remember Nani got sent off years ago for trying to control a ball that had just gone over his head, and his foot kicked the defender in the head behind him. Greizman's was certainly more of a red than that one, as Griezmem was in a crowd of players, whereas Nani wasn't necessarily aware anyone was near him.
		
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Intent certainly does matter in some areas of the game. If a player swings a punch at another player but misses he will, or at least should be, sent off for intent. If a player jumps in the air and tries to stamp on another player who gets out of the way then he can be sent off for intent. 

Or perhaps it's only that intent matters with deliberate acts like the two examples I've mentioned and in other areas it's endangering an opponent that gets the red card rather than the intent of the challenge.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Intent certainly does matter in some areas of the game. If a player swings a punch at another player but misses he will, or at least should be, sent off for intent. If a player jumps in the air and tries to stamp on another player who gets out of the way then he can be sent off for intent.

Or perhaps it's only that intent matters with deliberate acts like the two examples I've mentioned and in other areas it's endangering an opponent that gets the red card rather than the intent of the challenge.
		
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To clarify, I meant intent does not matter in this specific situation.

If a player clearly ever intends to hurt someone, such as punching them and missing, of course it should be a red.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I really hope they do get Howe. Relegation confirmed conceding 65 goals in the process and be the richest team in the Championship. 😂
		
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Fonseca has went from 7/1 to 7/4 in last few hours… all on the back of a message from a certain former no9.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

What a mental challenge 😂😂😂😂


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## IanM (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a mental challenge 😂😂😂😂
		
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But was still pleading innocence. 

Bunch of scumbags


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a mental challenge 😂😂😂😂
		
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Yeah, one of the most brain dead decisions I've ever seen. Newcastle should buy him, team up with Shelvey for some dramatic games


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

And that’s a silly challenge when you know they are going to throw themselves to the ground


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## IanM (Oct 19, 2021)

Oooh. Fell over.  Quel surprise


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2021)

Good ref this lad??.?
Very suprized at that.
Stupid challenge from Jota


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

I’m pretty staggered he overturned that


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## IanM (Oct 19, 2021)

Blimey. 

Dull rubbish this.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Pretty shocked Liverpool got away with that one. Certainly wasn't a clear and obvious error, definitely contact and Jota got in a bad position.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m pretty staggered he overturned that
		
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Astounded. I'd be livid if it was the other way. Stone wall pen for me. Mad.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

refs sooooo inconsistent

difference between griezman and ibrahimovic????


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Pretty shocked Liverpool got away with that one. Certainly wasn't a clear and obvious error, definitely contact and Jota got in a bad position.
		
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Why is Jota there ?
They only have 10 men he should be nowhere near his own box.
Some shocking defending here.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2021)

Didn’t expect Alison to be MOM after the first 15 mins.
We are so slow going forward.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Simeone as classless as ever


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Simeone runs down the tunnel without shaking hands. Absolute scumbag


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

Simeone running off without shaking hands 😂😂 - about sums him and his team up , petulant children 

That’s a big win


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2021)

Great win for Lpool, game was spoilt by the sending off, definite red though.

Horrible team Atletico, summed up by Simeone running down the tunnel at the end.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2021)

The commentator thought it was a great game ?
I thought it was shocking football wise .
Some of the worst defending I have seen in the CL.
We were lucky to win that , Alison and the ref in the headlines.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The commentator thought it was a great game ?
I thought it was shocking football wise .
Some of the worst defending I have seen in the CL.
We were lucky to win that , Alison and the ref in the headlines.
		
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It's a win..that's all that matters


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## hairball_89 (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Simeone running off without shaking hands 😂😂 - *about sums him and his team up , petulant children*

That’s a big win
		
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The bold part annoys me so much. There are some truly wonderful players at Atletico and they choose to play like that!

We absolutely got away with it today. The performance wasn't great by any means before you consider the pen overturn, which was incorrect imo.

But 3 goals away from home in th CL is never to be sniffed. All but through to the next round. Roll on Sunday!


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

if you can score 3 away at Simeone's Athletico how many will you get against Oles at the wheel ????


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The commentator thought it was a great game ?
I thought it was shocking football wise .
Some of the worst defending I have seen in the CL.
We were lucky to win that , Alison and the ref in the headlines.
		
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It was for the neutral, you lot off to a flyer, them getting level, chances etc, both teams could of won it, then the sending off which increased the historyonics from Atletico, then the penalties.

Overall, 90 mins of non-stop action with loads of talking points.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

Peter Walton 🤦‍♂️


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## hairball_89 (Oct 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			if you can score 3 away at Simeone's Athletico how many will you get against Oles at the wheel ????  

Click to expand...

As long as it's more than they do... Who cares?!


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 19, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It's a win..that's all that matters

Click to expand...

Exactly this. 9 points from three games played meaning that even a point in the return game against Athletico means Liverpool are almost guaranteed to go through and can rest players for the last two group games. Even an unlikely loss in the next game means they only have to beat Porto at home or AC Milan away to guarantee progress.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It was for the neutral, you lot off to a flyer, them getting level, chances etc, both teams could of won it, then the sending off which increased the historyonics from Atletico, then the penalties.

Overall, 90 mins of non-stop action with loads of talking points.
		
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Yes but no football !
That was my point.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Peter Walton 🤦‍♂️
		
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Yes listening to his explanation of Matips non challenge.
It’s no wonder we don’t know what’s going on in the refs head.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Peter Walton 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...


Random irritation thread that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Exactly this. 9 points from three games played meaning that even a point in the return game against Athletico means Liverpool are almost guaranteed to go through and can rest players for the last two group games. Even an unlikely loss in the next game means they only have to beat Porto at home or AC Milan away to guarantee progress.
		
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Not bad in the group of Death 

Proper ugly win tonight


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			if you can score 3 away at Simeone's Athletico how many will you get against Oles at the wheel ????  

Click to expand...

Utds only hope is that Liverpool's defence was pretty shocking at times. Madrid still looked dangerous down to 10 men. Utd can exploit that if they attack to their potential.

Sadly, Utd's defence is even more shocking.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but no football !
That was my point.
		
Click to expand...

Lpool dominating possession, ripping them apart in the first 15 minutes, them getting back in to it with counter attacking, good saves from your keeper, 2nd half started brightly and as I said, definite red, but changed the game.

I totally get apart from the result you may of been nervous, but as a neutral it was a great game.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Hes more been linked in the director of football position than anything. Although I think someone from city (Wilcox I think) is being linked too.

I would think Gerrard is a shoe in for liverpool 2024 when klopp goes right?  Surely he at least waits until then, and if they don’t come in then he can go to another prem club.
		
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I heard the other day that apparently Stevie's contract at Rangers runs out the very next day after Jurgen's does, but will be surprised if he does another 2 years there.

I think the Newcastle job may be available too soon for him. I think he will want to cement a legacy at Rangers by winning the league twice, but could see him leaving there after that.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s one of them ,he’s looking at the ball. It’s a bit harsh.
Very similar to the Mane one at City on Ederson.
		
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I agree slightly harsh, but the mane one at City was a deffo red, as had reaction time. Different situations for me.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2021)

Erm, 2 English teams played tonight....


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Erm, *2 English teams played tonight*....

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No they didn't. Two teams that play in the English PL played tonight. Liverpool had three English qualified players in their starting line up (AA, Henderson, Milner) and Man City also had three (Walker, Foden, Grealish). Two fantastically talented teams played tonight in the CL representing the PL but there's no way you can call them English teams.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			No they didn't. Two teams that play in the English PL played tonight. Liverpool had three English qualified players in their starting line up (AA, Henderson, Milner) and Man City also had three (Walker, Foden, Grealish). Two fantastically talented teams played tonight in the CL representing the PL but there's no way you can call them English teams.
		
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I know the North West is a very strange place. But it is still in England.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			No they didn't. Two teams that play in the English PL played tonight. Liverpool had three English qualified players in their starting line up (AA, Henderson, Milner) and Man City also had three (Walker, Foden, Grealish). Two fantastically talented teams played tonight in the CL representing the PL but there's no way you can call them English teams.
		
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Sorry, your right, one is from England (representing Qatar) and the other is from the socialist republic of Liverpool. As you were.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2021)

👈🏻 Karma 😂😂

I love it when the masters of the dark arts get a taste of their own medicine, its so sweet😁

I admire Simeone and how he goes about playing football. I’d love him at Liverpool, the hatred would go up another level🤷‍♂️

Trippier’s reaction to Milners Elbow to the face was hilarious too. Oscar winning performance.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Lpool dominating possession, ripping them apart in the first 15 minutes, them getting back in to it with counter attacking, good saves from your keeper, 2nd half started brightly and as I said, definite red, but changed the game.

I totally get apart from the result you may of been nervous, but as a neutral it was a great game.

Click to expand...

Nervous is an understatement.
Just don’t understand Simeone they looked a really good side when they came out and played.
But he plays horrible football by choice.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree slightly harsh, but the mane one at City was a deffo red, *as had reaction time. Different situations for me.*

Click to expand...

Nah very similar, both had their eyes on the ball.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Peter Walton 🤦‍♂️
		
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Just saw this. I wonder how much BT pay him? Absolute useless contribution. Or, useful to show how clueless professional referees are at times, and potentially how arrogant they can be in not admitting they may be wrong. 

If the Atletico player was not there, of course Matip would have attempted to clear the ball.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah very similar, both had their eyes on the ball.
		
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But the reaction times were different.

Griezman tracked the ball raised his foot, Bobby was instantly there.

Mane was  running for the ball, could probably see Ederson in his peripheral vision and had time to pull out.

I said Mane's was a red at the time, still is.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			But the reaction times were different.

Griezman tracked the ball raised his foot, Bobby was instantly there.

Mane was  running for the ball, *could probably see Ederson in his peripheral vision and had time to pull out.*

I said Mane's was a red at the time, still is.
		
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At the speed Mane’s challenge  happened I disagree.

Both were reds though.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			At the speed Mane’s challenge  happened I disagree.

Both were reds though.
		
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We'll agree to disagree, in case you open up a can of potty mouth wupass on me.


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## rudebhoy (Oct 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, you want a name. It depends where the club are aiming but if it was me I'd go to Rangers and get Gerrard.
		
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Gerrard has won 1 domestic trophy out of 9, and that was due in a large part to Celtic's spectacular self-implosion last season. He really isn't anything special as a manager and has done nothing to be linked with a high-profile EPL job.


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## Trojan615 (Oct 20, 2021)

I wouldn’t touch gerrard or lampard. May as well go for shearer if that’s the case


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## Trojan615 (Oct 20, 2021)

Not that I want him but I’m surprised the king of relegation scraps hasn’t been mentioned until the end of the season. Big Sam


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## rudebhoy (Oct 20, 2021)

Trojan615 said:



			Not that I want him but I’m surprised the king of relegation scraps hasn’t been mentioned until the end of the season. Big Sam
		
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That's the thing, this season is all about staying up, nothing more. Tried and tested has got to be the way to go, get someone who knows how to get as much as you can out of a mediocre squad between now and January, and bring some proven quality in then.


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## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Just saw this. I wonder how much BT pay him? Absolute useless contribution. Or, useful to show how clueless professional referees are at times, and potentially how arrogant they can be in not admitting they may be wrong.

If the Atletico player was not there, of course Matip would have attempted to clear the ball.
		
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I've not had to suffer Walton for a while but he is a complete and utter oxygen thief. All he ever does is back the refs and try and justify whatever horrible decision they've made. Ref's union and all that. I'd love to see a compilation of the times he actually disagreed with the decision and expressed his own view on it, it would be a very short video. He seems terrified he'd be throwing a fellow ref under the bus if he had a different opinion.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 20, 2021)

Trojan615 said:



			Not that I want him but I’m surprised the king of relegation scraps hasn’t been mentioned until the end of the season. Big Sam
		
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Seems like a no brainier to me.


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## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2021)

Trojan615 said:



			Not that I want him but I’m surprised the king of relegation scraps hasn’t been mentioned until the end of the season. Big Sam
		
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I thought he'd more or less retired. Plus he's been at Newcastle already and it didn't go that well for him, he's probably not that keen to go back to the North East. Then again money talks I suppose.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 20, 2021)

Trojan615 said:



			Not that I want him but I’m surprised the king of relegation scraps hasn’t been mentioned until the end of the season. Big Sam
		
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Didn’t he take his last club down?  I don’t think we need Big Sam.  A decent manager with half a tactical plan will do enough to get us out of the relegation scrap.  We will still be in a mess come Jan as got an awful run of fixtures, but expect we will kick on from there with a new manager and a couple of signings/loans


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## Cherry13 (Oct 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I thought he'd more or less retired. Plus he's been at Newcastle already and it didn't go that well for him, he's probably not that keen to go back to the North East. Then again money talks I suppose.
		
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Apparantly his Spanish villa is named casa st James… he used the money from his sacking to buy it haha.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2021)

Trojan615 said:



			Not that I want him but I’m surprised the king of relegation scraps hasn’t been mentioned until the end of the season. Big Sam
		
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Do you not remember his last time there? I think the fans would rather have a Peter Reid / Niall Quinn combo


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2021)

Sounds like Bruce has gone, lets see who they get to replace him then


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Bruce has gone, lets see who they get to replace him then 

Click to expand...

They were obviously reading this thread last night, hi there Amanda, and decided enough was enough .


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They were obviously reading this thread last night, hi there Amanda, and decided enough was enough .
		
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on that basis theyll announce Gerrard tomorrow afternoon


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			on that basis theyll announce Gerrard tomorrow afternoon 

Click to expand...

I suspect that may be pushing my ego a little too far . If he does get the job though ................


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I suspect that may be pushing my ego a little too far . If he does get the job though ................
		
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Fonseca gone odds on


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## road2ruin (Oct 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			Fonseca gone odds on 

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Ex Dortmund manager Lucien Favre is another at the top of the list apparently.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			Fonseca gone odds on 

Click to expand...

Out of work so could start straight away. Apparently was close to getting the Spurs job in the summer. All good fun.


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Out of work so could start straight away. Apparently was close to getting the Spurs job in the summer. All good fun.
		
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74% of people in football were close to getting the spurs job


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## rudebhoy (Oct 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Out of work so could start straight away. Apparently was close to getting the Spurs job in the summer. All good fun.
		
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_Immediately after leaving Roma, Fonseca was director Fabio Paratici's top choice to be manager of Premier League club Tottenham Hotspur. However, the advanced negotiations were scrapped on 17 June 2021[31] due to tax issues._


Guess the Sheiks are happy to cover his tax bill as well as his wages


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



_Immediately after leaving Roma, Fonseca was director Fabio Paratici's top choice to be manager of Premier League club Tottenham Hotspur. However, the advanced negotiations were scrapped on 17 June 2021[31] due to tax issues._


Guess the Sheiks are happy to cover his tax bill as well as his wages 

Click to expand...

It does seem to be the way that most overseas players see there salary demands as being after tax. Scary. Not an issue at the Toon right now.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It does seem to be the way that most overseas players see there salary demands as being after tax. Scary. Not an issue at the Toon right now.
		
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I understood that when a player joins a La Liga club say, the pay they agree to is net of tax


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## Billysboots (Oct 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			if you can score 3 away at Simeone's Athletico how many will you get against Oles at the wheel ????  

Click to expand...

I will be washing my hair Sunday afternoon. The prospect of watching the United of late playing this Liverpool side is scary. I genuinely fear a proper battering.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It does seem to be the way that most overseas players see there salary demands as being after tax. Scary. Not an issue at the Toon right now.
		
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Probably not that surprising. Generally, in the UK the highest individual income tax rate is 54% (Income Tax and National Insurance, I'm assuming a foreign manager requires to contribute to both). In Belgium the rate is 79.5%, in Finland 66.75%, Switzerland 59.7% and so on. So, if any of us working in the UK had an opportunity to go to any of these countries to work, we'd be more interested in what goes into our bank account, rather than the total salary. Otherwise we'd be in for a shock when we need to give more away and actually end up with less than we had in the UK.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Probably not that surprising. Generally, in the UK the highest individual income tax rate is 54% (Income Tax and National Insurance, I'm assuming a foreign manager requires to contribute to both). In Belgium the rate is 79.5%, in Finland 66.75%, Switzerland 59.7% and so on. So, if any of us working in the UK had an opportunity to go to any of these countries to work, we'd be more interested in what goes into our bank account, rather than the total salary. Otherwise we'd be in for a shock when we need to give more away and actually end up with less than we had in the UK.
		
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Tax is part of life everywhere though. I guess it is just a different lens that we look through. Here we accept a salary figure, then understand that tax will be removed. In some countries the view is that is what I want and I want in my hand, after everything else is taken from you.

It isn't wrong, just a different view.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tax is part of life everywhere though. I guess it is just a different lens that we look through. Here we accept a salary figure, then understand that tax will be removed. In some countries the view is that is what I want and I want in my hand, after everything else is taken from you.

It isn't wrong, just a different view.
		
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It is, but what I'm getting at is that if a person was on £50,000 a year in the UK, they shouldn't just be jumping at the chance to earn £60,000 a year in another country like Belgium. They'd be foolish to think they are earning more, if they then find out they need to give more to the government and are actually less well off.

If doesn't matter so much when you are working in the UK, and moving jobs within the UK, because it is easier just to compare the total salary (setting aside switching into different tax brackets). But if you are moving to a job in another country, then the best thing an individual can do is compare salaries by how much money actually goes into their account. You could even go to many countries and get a lower total salary, yet get much more into your account due to much smaller tax rates. My mate went to teach in Singapore, and I think for the first year or 2 they pay 0% tax, and after that it only goes up to something like 20%


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2021)

Interesting perspective!

Allan Saint-Maximin  @asaintmaximin
29m
You are, without a doubt, one of the most gentle people that I have ever met in the world of football. You have been a man of your word, a caring man and a fair man who never hesitated to protect us. I will never forget how you treated me, for that I will be forever grateful


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## GreiginFife (Oct 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			Interesting perspective!

Allan Saint-Maximin  @asaintmaximin
29m
You are, without a doubt, one of the most gentle people that I have ever met in the world of football. You have been a man of your word, a caring man and a fair man who never hesitated to protect us. I will never forget how you treated me, for that I will be forever grateful
		
Click to expand...

Clearly never forced any of his players to read any of his "novels"...


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## Captainron (Oct 20, 2021)

Steve Bruce has left Newcastle. Not shocked. Now to see what money can buy….


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I will be washing my hair Sunday afternoon. The prospect of watching the United of late playing this Liverpool side is scary. I genuinely fear a proper battering.
		
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As a Liverpool fan of 40 years plus, I'm never confident playing man U, seen it too many times before when we were the top dogs that United have played above and beyond their normal level.

I'll take any win.


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## Neilds (Oct 20, 2021)

After the sacking of Steve Bruce, rumours are circulating that the Government are looking to hire him to take the UK down in the Covid League tables


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 20, 2021)

Unrelated to last night's Champions League Drama and the Sacking of Steve Bruce...but last night I made the last minute decision to go and watch Forest away at Bristol City (now I live in Gloucester); having not been to a live game in more than 8 years. Tickets were no longer available to buy unless collecting from the City Ground, but managed to somehow get a ticket off a guy I've never met who mentioned on Instagram he had a spare ticket. Could have turned out horribly, but ended up being fine and I had one of the best nights of my life.

Watched a team who now don't stop trying and 2 last minute injury time goals to seal a 4th win on the bounce was absolutely incredible. I've fully fallen in love with football again.


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2021)

Aztecs27 said:



			Unrelated to last night's Champions League Drama and the Sacking of Steve Bruce...but last night I made the last minute decision to go and watch Forest away at Bristol City (now I live in Gloucester); having not been to a live game in more than 8 years. Tickets were no longer available to buy unless collecting from the City Ground, but managed to somehow get a ticket off a guy I've never met who mentioned on Instagram he had a spare ticket. Could have turned out horribly, but ended up being fine and I had one of the best nights of my life.

Watched a team who now don't stop trying and 2 last minute injury time goals to seal a 4th win on the bounce was absolutely incredible. I've fully fallen in love with football again.
		
Click to expand...


been a massive change at Forest since the manager change, starting to fulfill some of the promise, did you get the shirt? 

were over 200/1 on betfair, sadly only got a few quid at 33s


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			been a massive change at Forest since the manager change, starting to fulfill some of the promise, did you get the shirt? 

were over 200/1 on betfair, sadly only got a few quid at 33s 

Click to expand...

Ha! I wish. it's been an incredible turnaround and although we've had managers give us hope in recent years (Sabri Lamouchi for one), Cooper seems to have instilled a really culture change that the whole squad has bought into. After we went one down last night, none of us in the crowd ever thought we wouldn't get one back. He's given us belief we've not had in years. If we'd gone one down under Houghton, it would have been a lost cause.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2021)

Aztecs27 said:



			Ha! I wish. it's been an incredible turnaround and although we've had managers give us hope in recent years (Sabri Lamouchi for one), Cooper seems to have instilled a really culture change that the whole squad has bought into. After we went one down last night, none of us in the crowd ever thought we wouldn't get one back. He's given us belief we've not had in years. If we'd gone one down under Houghton, it would have been a lost cause.
		
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Fans of clubs who are doing well often pipe up asking why change a manger, what will a new manager do with the same players? Your post explains very simply what a change at the top can do. Sounds like you had a good night


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fans of clubs who are doing well often pipe up asking why change a manger, what will a new manager do with the same players? Your post explains very simply what a change at the top can do. Sounds like you had a good night 

Click to expand...

There's an argument for keeping a manager for consistency - we've had 18 different managers since King Billy left the first time in June 2011  but just hearing the players talking along with Cooper himself, it's so refreshing - and it's blindingly obvious the players were very low on morale with Hughton around. Fulham on Sunday will be a real acid test.


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## Trojan615 (Oct 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I thought he'd more or less retired. Plus he's been at Newcastle already and it didn't go that well for him, he's probably not that keen to go back to the North East. Then again money talks I suppose.
		
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he was in charge when Ashley took over and got canned as he wasn’t `ashleys man`…… funny how things could go full circle!


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## Trojan615 (Oct 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you not remember his last time there? I think the fans would rather have a Peter Reid / Niall Quinn combo 

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I do….. I don’t care about attractive football until we are safe. It’s not like it would be long term. That said his defensive signings were awful…


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			As a Liverpool fan of 40 years plus, I'm never confident playing man U, seen it too many times before when we were the top dogs that United have played above and beyond their normal level.

I'll take any win.
		
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I'll be amazed if it's anything other than a tennis score. Can easily see 6-0 or 6-1.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'll be amazed if it's anything other than a tennis score. Can easily see 6-0 or 6-1.
		
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Man U arent as bad as some are making out, they are also very dangerous going forward. I think the performance of the ref can always have a big say, as well. The crowd will also lift the players to harry more than in any other game. As much as some may deny it, it it always their biggest game of the season. Its no done thing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2021)

Maybe Bruce to Man Utd 😁


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## Swango1980 (Oct 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe Bruce to Man Utd 😁
		
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He'd be a massive improvement. 

Forget dropping Pogba, I'd drop Bruno. He gives the ball away nearly every time he gets it.


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## Billysboots (Oct 20, 2021)

That move leading to the corner which produced Atalanta’s second should be picked apart by the pundits and held up as an example of everything which is wrong with this side.

Atalanta moved the ball from the edge of their own box to the other end of the pitch, and at no point was there a United player within ten yards of it. No press whatsoever.

Shocking to watch, and easy to play against.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 20, 2021)

Trojan615 said:



			he was in charge when Ashley took over and got canned as he wasn’t `ashleys man`…… funny how things could go full circle!
		
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By 8 days as well… was a really poor situation that hall and shepherd put everyone in.  But I don’t think he’d be welcomed back, regardless of his perceived ability in a relegation scrap.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 20, 2021)

Very dominant first half from Chelsea, could of been 3 or 4, Lukaku and Werner both subbed off due to injury.

Switching to Old Trafford hoping to see a fightback Leicester style.


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## GreiginFife (Oct 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Very dominant first half from Chelsea, could of been 3 or 4, Lukaku and Werner both subbed off due to injury.

Switching to Old Trafford hoping to see a fightback Leicester style.

Click to expand...

Hey presto


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2021)

Hell of a game, that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 20, 2021)

Another goodnight for English Clubs in Europe.👍🏻


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2021)

Ole still at the wheel then


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 20, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Another goodnight for English Clubs in Europe.👍🏻
		
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And also for non-Man Utd fans. That comeback should take the pressure off Ole and keep him in the job for a bit longer.


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## BrianM (Oct 20, 2021)

How bad to Utd look at the back…..
Great come back but you’ve got to think better sides will give them a hammering!!


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## Billysboots (Oct 20, 2021)

BrianM said:



			How bad to Utd look at the back…..
Great come back but you’ve got to think better sides will give them a hammering!!
		
Click to expand...

That result should in no way hide the fact that, for 45 minutes, that was as bad as United have been in years. I don’t know who said what at half time, but it’s about time it was said before the first whistle.

Playing like that might win one-off games, but it cannot be part of a long term plan.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 20, 2021)

Still don't have a clue what the game plan Ole is trying to use? Awful. Thankfully the quality of the players sometimes gets us through it.

That Ronaldo tho, terrible signing.....


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## Junior (Oct 21, 2021)

What a night of ups and downs at the Theatre of Dreams/Nightmares.  The crowd got behind Ole and the team like I've never seen before at the start,  then we proceeded to defend like an U13's side,  booed off at HT before coming out and playing like everyone knows they can.  Could have scored a few more , but Atalanta wasted a couple of chances too.

In summary,  the result papers over the cracks and the bottom line is we need more experienced holding midfielder than Fred. Also, something we need to consider is stopping the play better.  So often we were left out of shape at the back and in midfield by quick breaks (same against Leicester)


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## Billysboots (Oct 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Still don't have a clue what the game plan Ole is trying to use? Awful. Thankfully the quality of the players sometimes gets us through it.

That Ronaldo tho, terrible signing..... 

Click to expand...

Ronaldo bailed them out, certainly, but I am still left wondering how much of the truly awful performance against Leicester, the first half last night and any of the other inept performances so far this season are a direct result of Solskjaer trying to accommodate one individual. We saw yet again last night that we are relying on individual brilliance to paper over huge cracks.

Moving on from that, to hear Solskjaer say he thought United played well during that first half last night was, quite frankly, embarrassing. They were abject, make no bones about it. As I said last night, the ease of the move which resulted in the corner leading to Atalanta’s second sums this United side up - lazy, a lack of work ethic, lack of direction and leadership. That one move should be giving every United fan sleepless nights with Liverpool coming to town on Sunday.

If anyone thinks this is a turning point, think again. We will still struggle to get out of that Champion’s League group, and top four is a pipe dream unless either the manager suddenly learns how to manage, or the club shows him the door.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 21, 2021)

Junior said:



			What a night of ups and downs at the Theatre of Dreams/Nightmares.  The crowd got behind Ole and the team like I've never seen before at the start,  then proceeded to defend like an U13's side, we're booed off at HT before coming out and playing like everyone knows they can.  Could have scored a few more , but Atalanta wasted a couple of chances too.

In summary,  the result papers over the cracks and the bottom line is we need more experienced holding midfielder than Fred. Also, something we need to consider is stopping the play better.  So often we were left out of shape at the back and in midfield by quick breaks (same against Leicester)
		
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Fred is not great. But before game, Ole confirmed Utd would play 4-2-4. And they did, and it was awful. As Scholes said, it doesn't matter who those 2 midfielders were, it would be impossible for them.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Ronaldo bailed them out, certainly, but I am still left wondering how much of the truly awful performance against Leicester, the first half last night and any of the other inept performances so far this season are a direct result of Solskjaer trying to accommodate one individual. We saw yet again last night that we are relying on individual brilliance to paper over huge cracks.

Moving on from that, to hear Solskjaer say he thought United played well during that first half last night was, quite frankly, embarrassing. They were abject, make no bones about it. As I said last night, the ease of the move which resulted in the corner leading to Atalanta’s second sums this United side up - lazy, a lack of work ethic, lack of direction and leadership. That one move should be giving every United fan sleepless nights with Liverpool coming to town on Sunday.

If anyone thinks this is a turning point, think again. We will still struggle to get out of that Champion’s League group, and top four is a pipe dream unless either the manager suddenly learns how to manage, or the club shows him the door.
		
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If Ronaldo wasn't up front, it would be someone else. So what do we mean by "accommodate him". Watching the game, he put a shift in. He was even defending his own box in periods of open play. However, he also gets himself into dangerous attacking positions time and time again. All the complaints about Kane are he is not getting himself in the box, Ronaldo cannot be accused of that.

However, the team as a whole are sluggish. None of them close down the opposition effectively, and I certainly do not think it is because we are accommodating Ronaldo. We have been awful at this a long time before Ronaldo arrived


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## Junior (Oct 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If Ronaldo wasn't up front, it would be someone else. So what do we mean by "accommodate him". Watching the game, he put a shift in. He was even defending his own box in periods of open play. However, he also gets himself into dangerous attacking positions time and time again. All the complaints about Kane are he is not getting himself in the box, Ronaldo cannot be accused of that.

However, the team as a whole are sluggish. None of them close down the opposition effectively, and I certainly do not think it is because we are accommodating Ronaldo. We have been awful at this a long time before Ronaldo arrived
		
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Swango1980 said:



			Fred is not great. But before game, Ole confirmed Utd would play 4-2-4. And they did, and it was awful. As Scholes said, it doesn't matter who those 2 midfielders were, it would be impossible for them.
		
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I think we bought Ronaldo to prevent him going to City.  Cavani was playing well and his work rate is excellent.  I'd have been happy with Cavani and Greenwood as our main 2.

Ultimately ,  Ole doesnt known his best formation and switches around too much.  All the best teams stick to the same formation and rotate players in those positions.  I'd love us to play a simple 433 or 442 as opposed to the disorganised mess we have today.


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## Billysboots (Oct 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If Ronaldo wasn't up front, it would be someone else. So what do we mean by "accommodate him". Watching the game, he put a shift in. He was even defending his own box in periods of open play. However, he also gets himself into dangerous attacking positions time and time again. All the complaints about Kane are he is not getting himself in the box, Ronaldo cannot be accused of that.

However, the team as a whole are sluggish. None of them close down the opposition effectively, and I certainly do not think it is because we are accommodating Ronaldo. We have been awful at this a long time before Ronaldo arrived
		
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We will perhaps disagree, but by playing Ronaldo through the middle it forces Solskjaer to play others out of position. Greenwood, long term, has to play through the middle, surely. But he now faces at least one more season on the right of a front three, where not only does he drift in and out of games far too much, he is also required to track back. He doesn’t do that. Last night he was largely anonymous before he was hooked.

In the summer the club spent £70m plus on Jadon Sancho. Whenever I saw him play in Germany, his best position was the berth Greenwood now occupies. So to get game time he is also played out of position on the left of a front three. I’m not sure I see the sense in spending that sort of money on a player only to then tinker with where best to play him.

Cavani, who defends from the front in a way others can’t or won’t, is now warming the bench. If Rashford starts on the left, which is arguably the one and only position where he can be effective, the new £70m man has to join Cavani on the bench.

All that to accommodate one player. I am not for one moment disputing Ronaldo’s quality - he is still right up there with the best there is, but I genuinely feel that having him there unsettles the front three, which doubtless has an impact elsewhere. 

I’m not saying the absence of a pressing game is new, because I agree it isn’t, but I have not seen United look so chaotically disjointed for a long time. There is absolutely no structure, no system and no plan in evidence and a large part of me thinks that simply has to be in part due to players either not understanding their role, or being asked to play a role they are uncomfortable in.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			We will perhaps disagree, but by playing Ronaldo through the middle it forces Solskjaer to play others out of position. Greenwood, long term, has to play through the middle, surely. But he now faces at least one more season on the right of a front three, where not only does he drift in and out of games far too much, he is also required to track back. He doesn’t do that. Last night he was largely anonymous before he was hooked.

In the summer the club spent £70m plus on Jadon Sancho. Whenever I saw him play in Germany, his best position was the berth Greenwood now occupies. So to get game time he is also played out of position on the left of a front three. I’m not sure I see the sense in spending that sort of money on a player only to then tinker with where best to play him.

Cavani, who defends from the front in a way others can’t or won’t, is now warming the bench. If Rashford starts on the left, which is arguably the one and only position where he can be effective, the new £70m man has to join Cavani on the bench.

All that to accommodate one player. I am not for one moment disputing Ronaldo’s quality - he is still right up there with the best there is, but I genuinely feel that having him there unsettles the front three, which doubtless has an impact elsewhere.

I’m not saying the absence of a pressing game is new, because I agree it isn’t, but I have not seen United look so chaotically disjointed for a long time. There is absolutely no structure, no system and no plan in evidence and a large part of me thinks that simply has to be in part due to players either not understanding their role, or being asked to play a role they are uncomfortable in.
		
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I agree that if Ronaldo was not there, then Greenwood would get his chance up front. Or would he, as Cavani would play more. So, would he rotate both players evenly, or stick Greenwood on right when Cavani is playing and let Sancho warm the bench? Regardless of the players, Ole doesn't really know what he is doing. His only way he can try and improve things when they are going wrong is try different players. 

Tactically, Ole is inept. After Liverpool's game against Atletico, Klopp was asked how Atletico got back into the game. He provided an astute and detailed answer as to what went wrong tactically, what his players hould have been doing better. Talking about playing through lines, and the difference that is made when the opposition play deep, etc. Yet, when Ole was asked at the weekend what was wrong after the Leicester defeat, despite Utd being pretty abysmal for a long time, all he could say was "maybe we need to look at changing something". Pathetic. Utd's weakness has long been the gaping hole in midfield, yet before last night-s game he said we'd be playing 4-2-4. Pathetic. We get situations where are 4 attacking players are all up on the shoulders of the defence, trying to run in behind. It is so obvious and easy to defend against, especially as the defence sit deeper. You then have McTomminay and/or Fred who really do not have an easy pass on unless they go backwards. We need to try Hollywood balls, and often give the ball away. Therefore, we go through long periods when we simply have no control of the game, which is not good enough if you want to challenge at the top. 

However, had we bought Kane in the summer, I've no doubt people would be praising the move. The only thing in my mind that Kane has over Ronaldo is age. As a fan, if I wanted one player in the world to be in the box when we play a ball in, I'd want it to be Ronaldo. If we had one player in the world to get on the end of a header, I would want it to be Ronaldo. If we had one player in the world to be one on one with the keeper, I would want it to be Ronaldo. If we had one player in the world who could be in the dressing room, having achieved more than virtually every other player in history and work his socks off to be the best he can to be a positive influence on those around him, I would want it to be Ronaldo. If we had a player who could lift the man Utd fans, I would want it to be Ronaldo. In my time of watching football, for me, Ronaldo has been the most exciting, inspirational signing we have ever made by a long shot. We've had a few, Rooney was excellent, especially when he scored a hat trick on his debut. But Ronaldo was most exciting signing we've had.

Ronaldo was not at Utd last season, Greenwood was not promoted as our permanent striker. Cavani, who I love, signed a new contract, and before Ronaldo signed would have been considered our main target man anyway, I doubt Greenwood would suddenly have become our striker and scored 25+ goals. I always questioned the strong determination to get Sancho. I felt we already had Greenwood in that position (and we had James at the time as well as cover). I'd have rather looked at a strong defensive midfielder who was confident on the ball, a long term striker and a defender (if anything, if we wanted someone on the right, I'd have got Traore from Wolves as an impact player). We obviously got the defender. We didn't get the long term striker, but at least for the next year or 2 have something even more special up front. If anything, it is Sancho that upsets the balance. Although, hopefully he'll come good.

I feel sorry for Lingard. I have definitely doubted him, but he has certainly showing he has a lot to offer. Being a form player, I would have definitely given him more game time in the last month or 2. However, Ole largely allows him to rot on the bench with de Beek. I genuinely thing Ole is scared of the reputation of some players, and is happy to let others suffer so not to upset his favourites. Granted, De Beek has not shown a lot, but nor has he been given a chance, and when he does he plays in a side tactically inept.


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## Billysboots (Oct 21, 2021)

I absolutely agree with everything you say about Ronaldo, I am merely querying the logic of the signing. At no point during the summer was there ever really any talk of a striker coming in. Cavani extended his stay, the general consensus being that he would be the focal point, with Greenwood continuing to learn his craft for another season, primarily deputising for Cavani as the latter was never likely to play every week.

That assumption started to really make sense when Sancho came in. It looked for all the world like we would go with a front three of Cavani/Greenwood, with Sancho on the right and Rashford left, in what had the potential to be a really well balanced line. Then Ronaldo becomes available, United sign him and the natural assumption becomes a practical impossibility.

I absolutely love Ronaldo. I was at Old Trafford when he came on as a substitute against Bolton all those years ago, and you could see in an instant we had someone genuinely special. As time went on he got as much stick from the home fans for going to ground too easily as he did from opposing supporters, because everyone knew he was way, way better than that. As an ambassador for the club, leader of the line and role model for younger players there is absolutely nobody I would rather have.

But, his signing is a classic short term fix, and in eighteen months time we will have to find a new way of moving forward. By then what progress will Greenwood have made? Cavani will be a memory. Don’t get me wrong, I will enjoy Ronaldo’s mere presence on the pitch as much as the next person for as long as it lasts. But I question how it will impact on the team’s progress in a wider context.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 21, 2021)

Really looking forward to the game at the weekend I think we will batter Liverpool.
Keep Salah quiet they don’t have much more.
Looking forward to TAA going forward and Rashford exploiting the space behind him probably get a hatrick.

Key to the game is Shaw and how he deals with the one season wonder.

Ronaldo just pure class,great signing.
Feel for Cavani as it’s probably his last big move .
Sancho just don’t see the hype.
Rashfords finishing apart from his goal was rusty but his movement was sublime.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 21, 2021)

I'll have a half of whatever Pokerjoke is on. I'm not sure I could manage a pint of it. 🙂


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'll have a half of whatever Pokerjoke is on. I'm not sure I could manage a pint of it. 🙂
		
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I was thinking more of a shot glass, it looks powerful stuff


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## Swango1980 (Oct 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I absolutely agree with everything you say about Ronaldo, I am merely querying the logic of the signing. At no point during the summer was there ever really any talk of a striker coming in. Cavani extended his stay, the general consensus being that he would be the focal point, with Greenwood continuing to learn his craft for another season, primarily deputising for Cavani as the latter was never likely to play every week.

That assumption started to really make sense when Sancho came in. It looked for all the world like we would go with a front three of Cavani/Greenwood, with Sancho on the right and Rashford left, in what had the potential to be a really well balanced line. Then Ronaldo becomes available, United sign him and the natural assumption becomes a practical impossibility.

I absolutely love Ronaldo. I was at Old Trafford when he came on as a substitute against Bolton all those years ago, and you could see in an instant we had someone genuinely special. As time went on he got as much stick from the home fans for going to ground too easily as he did from opposing supporters, because everyone knew he was way, way better than that. As an ambassador for the club, leader of the line and role model for younger players there is absolutely nobody I would rather have.

But, his signing is a classic short term fix, and in eighteen months time we will have to find a new way of moving forward. By then what progress will Greenwood have made? Cavani will be a memory. Don’t get me wrong, I will enjoy Ronaldo’s mere presence on the pitch as much as the next person for as long as it lasts. But I question how it will impact on the team’s progress in a wider context.
		
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The niggling issue I have about Greenwood is will he ever be considered a striker. From memory, Thierry Henry aside, most great strikers in history started their career as a striker. Or, at least quickly went to that role. This allowed them to learn the craft from a very young age, learn from their mistakes, learn the movements required so it becomes instinctive etc. Before even Ronaldo arrived, last season Ole did not really give Greenwood much of a chance apart from a sprinkling of games. Obviously we had Cavani, but he also liked to play Martial or Rashford up front as the striker many times.

So, Ole had his chance to play him as a striker, and didn't. Now, I agree, it could be argued that Greenwood was the only person who could play on the right (as James was only ever a squad player), and Sancho fills that gap. However, given how ineffective Rashford and Martial were up front at times, it would have been just as well to stick one of them on the right instead of being ineffective up front (even though both are best suited on left) and let Greenwood play up top. When we extended Cavani's contract, and the way he played last year, I'd have expected him to play in the majority of games if fit, especially the big ones. So, even if this was the season for Greenwood to get more of a chance up front, I reckon it would still be very limited.

Yes, no doubt the Ronaldo signing had been not something planned in advance. It just sort of materialised, and Utd went for it. Had they refused to sign him, personally I'd have been more upset with Utd for not getting him in. I'd have been livid, whether he ended up at City or somewhere else, and then found out Utd could have signed him and didn't.

OK, Greenwood may need to wait a year or 2 if he is to be promoted to United full time striker. In meantime, he can learn from 2 of the greatest in the game. The attitude of both Ronaldo and Cavani is fantastic, that needs to filter back to our midfield. Ole needs to open his eyes, and understand you cannot just go gung ho attack and hope it will all work out.

I am genuinely intrigued as to how we play against Liverpool


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'll have a half of whatever Pokerjoke is on. I'm not sure I could manage a pint of it. 🙂
		
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We don’t have a great record there - I’m expecting a different United to turn up , going to be a very tight match Imo and I’m expecting a 1-1 draw.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 21, 2021)

One for the Utd fans. I keep hearing about this player is best in that position, that player is best in that position. Now don’t get me wrong watching City. You could be playing 433 but whoever finds himself out wide right does not always stay there. They could be anywhere. They are very fluid. Now that has come Down to coaching. Is that not in the Utd locker to be able to move from A Designated position on the pitch.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			One for the Utd fans. I keep hearing about this player is best in that position, that player is best in that position. Now don’t get me wrong watching City. You could be playing 433 but whoever finds himself out wide right does not always stay there. They could be anywhere. They are very fluid. Now that has come Down to coaching. Is that not in the Utd locker to be able to move from A Designated position on the pitch.
		
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I’m totally in agreement with you.
If I’m buying a player like Sancho for 80 million and he can only play left side he won’t get much game time.
He might be better on one side or another but should never be a one trick pony.
The very best players are versatile.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 21, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I’m totally in agreement with you.
If I’m buying a player like Sancho for 80 million and he can only play left side he won’t get much game time.
He might be better on one side or another but should never be a one trick pony.
The very best players are versatile.
		
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I didn’t really have a opinion on Utd coz I don’t watch them. But that’s what I was picking up. That said. Again it’s down to Pep, Ole, Klopp etc to Coach that into them.


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## Billysboots (Oct 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			One for the Utd fans. I keep hearing about this player is best in that position, that player is best in that position. Now don’t get me wrong watching City. You could be playing 433 but whoever finds himself out wide right does not always stay there. They could be anywhere. They are very fluid. Now that has come Down to coaching. Is that not in the Utd locker to be able to move from A Designated position on the pitch.
		
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I don’t disagree, Tash, but I would still say a player should perhaps start in, or stay in, their best position more often than not. Rashford is a classic case in point - totally ineffective when played on the right, and nowhere near clinical enough through the middle.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			One for the Utd fans. I keep hearing about this player is best in that position, that player is best in that position. Now don’t get me wrong watching City. You could be playing 433 but whoever finds himself out wide right does not always stay there. They could be anywhere. They are very fluid. Now that has come Down to coaching. Is that not in the Utd locker to be able to move from A Designated position on the pitch.
		
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I get your point, but I agree with Billysboots as well. 

Rashford strength is his pace, and attacking from the left. It enables him to run in from the left, and potentially shoot with his strongest foot (assuming he hasn't already made the wrong decision before then and fallen over when trying a step over). Bit like Henry's strength was in the same position, and as such would often find himself there. Of course, he was also free to change position in the match depending on what was happening.

Therefore, players will have their strongest positions, and the coach needs to get that balance right. However, teams also need to adapt and be flexible during the game. Where players may change to a different position, before going back to their primary role. However, this also takes coaching, and a good understanding between the players. If you just assume players will figure it out for themselves with no plan, inevitably some will run about like headless chickens, while others will rigidly stick to their primary position. Basically a big mess, and it often it feels that way watching Utd. Sometimes it looks like we've 4 strikers, no wingers, no attacking midfielders, 2 defensive midfielders and 4 defenders. If Shaw and Wan Bissaka charge forward, we can have maybe 2 centre backs and one midfielder in defensive duty, and 7 players flat out attack (but struggling if opposition are playing deep). It is no wonder it only takes 2 or 3 opponents to hurt us on the counter.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I get your point, but I agree with Billysboots as well.

Rashford strength is his pace, and attacking from the left. It enables him to run in from the left, and potentially shoot with his strongest foot (assuming he hasn't already made the wrong decision before then and fallen over when trying a step over). Bit like Henry's strength was in the same position, and as such would often find himself there. Of course, he was also free to change position in the match depending on what was happening.

Therefore, players will have their strongest positions, and the coach needs to get that balance right. However, teams also need to adapt and be flexible during the game. Where players may change to a different position, before going back to their primary role. However, this also takes coaching, and a good understanding between the players. If you just assume players will figure it out for themselves with no plan, inevitably some will run about like headless chickens, while others will rigidly stick to their primary position. Basically a big mess, and it often it feels that way watching Utd. Sometimes it looks like we've 4 strikers, no wingers, no attacking midfielders, 2 defensive midfielders and 4 defenders. If Shaw and Wan Bissaka charge forward, we can have maybe 2 centre backs and one midfielder in defensive duty, and 7 players flat out attack (but struggling if opposition are playing deep). It is no wonder it only takes 2 or 3 opponents to hurt us on the counter.
		
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Re Rashford I saw him do exactly as you described v City when he was brought down for a penalty. But when I look at City, Walker bombs forward but Fernandinho or Rodri drops in that hole. It’s seems that if players drop out of there favoured positions others fill that gap. It looks like it is part of the system City play, a system that looks like it is coached. The classic example is with us now not having a striker. Someone has to tuck in.
 Another point I picked up re Utd was trying to get the ball back. City and others do it in groups, but not all the time. Sometimes it is just a bit of pressure to get the ball going backwards so City get into position. One game I can see City struggling in is Brentfor. They do attack in numbers.
Re Utd, I cannot see anything changing until a Tuchel type manager comes in. Utd have at the moment a fearrari being driven by Miss Daisys chauffeur.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 21, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Really looking forward to the game at the weekend I think we will batter Liverpool.
Keep Salah quiet they don’t have much more.
Looking forward to TAA going forward and Rashford exploiting the space behind him probably get a hatrick.

Key to the game is Shaw and how he deals with the one season wonder.

Ronaldo just pure class,great signing.
Feel for Cavani as it’s probably his last big move .
Sancho just don’t see the hype.
Rashfords finishing apart from his goal was rusty but his movement was sublime.
		
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Sorry mate but couldn’t disagree more,no way is that defence keeping Salah quiet.
If Utd are to win they’ll need to score 3 goals minimum imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59000322

West Ham and Man Utd fined for fans issues during UEFA Games 

It seems there is more issues at games at the moment - before pandemic etc the English clubs seemed to be well behaved in Europe beyond the odd issue but after the incidents at the Euro Final maybe it’s increased a lot more - at the moment cant see UEFA backing a World Cup bid


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## fundy (Oct 21, 2021)

Spursday nights


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'll have a half of whatever Pokerjoke is on. I'm not sure I could manage a pint of it. 🙂
		
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A Bitter Lemon is ok as a mixer, not great as a pint.

A very aptly named drink.


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## Junior (Oct 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59000322

West Ham and Man Utd fined for fans issues during UEFA Games

*It seems there is more issues at games at the moment* - before pandemic etc the English clubs seemed to be well behaved in Europe beyond the odd issue but after the incidents at the Euro Final maybe it’s increased a lot more - at the moment cant see UEFA backing a World Cup bid
		
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How would you know?  You're never there 

Seriously though, if this is a reason why our World Cup bid isn't considered then UEFA are even more of a corrupt, bias organisation than I imagined.   You only need to look at the racist, violent fans in other countries around the world. They make our knob head fans seem like angels at the minute. 

Also, let remember where it is next.....that shows you the UEFA agenda.  Its all about who offers   the best bribes.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 22, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58995303

A very good read indeed. 😁👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 22, 2021)

Junior said:



			How would you know?  You're never there 

Seriously though, if this is a reason why our World Cup bid isn't considered then UEFA are even more of a corrupt, bias organisation than I imagined.   You only need to look at the racist, violent fans in other countries around the world. They make our knob head fans seem like angels at the minute.

Also, let remember where it is next.....that shows you the UEFA agenda.  Its all about who offers   the best bribes.
		
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I think there is no doubt they will use what happened in the final to not back the bid - I believe UEFA clearly have no love for the English FA and clubs and you are right - lots of fans are showing their racist side especially in those Eastern European countries- so I expect UEFA to back the Iberian bid for 2030


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## Junior (Oct 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think there is no doubt they will use what happened in the final to not back the bid - I believe UEFA clearly have no love for the English FA and clubs and you are right - lots of fans are showing their racist side especially in those Eastern European countries- so I expect UEFA to back the Iberian bid for 2030
		
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My money is still on the Kingdom......not the United one but the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 22, 2021)

Junior said:



			My money is still on the Kingdom......not the United one but the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
		
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Don't they rotate it around continents so it won't be due back that way until 2042? With Qatar having it next year, America will then have one, Europe will have one (don't know the order) etc before it goes back to that region. Unless of course the brown envelopes are fat enough to change FIFA's procedures.


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## 4LEX (Oct 22, 2021)

They'll be ten times more trouble involving England fans if the World Cup was in Spain and Portugal than England. Easy and cheap travel, sunshine, holiday destinations, huge numbers of fans from all of Europe would be a powder keg. England would take 100,000 out there.

What happened at Wembley was a very minor incident given the size of the game and how many drunken fans were in London and Wembley that day. I fully expected a riot and London totalled. Without a limited capacity no one would have charged the stadium. The poor Policing and bent stewards letting people in for money was a bigger issue that has been swept under the carpet.


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2021)

Yet another lucky dip line up for Arsenal tonight, lets see if this ones any better!


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## Swango1980 (Oct 22, 2021)

4LEX said:



			They'll be ten times more trouble involving England fans if the World Cup was in Spain and Portugal than England. Easy and cheap travel, sunshine, holiday destinations, huge numbers of fans from all of Europe would be a powder keg. England would take 100,000 out there.

What happened at Wembley was a very minor incident given the size of the game and how many drunken fans were in London and Wembley that day. I fully expected a riot and London totalled. Without a limited capacity no one would have charged the stadium. The poor Policing and bent stewards letting people in for money was a bigger issue that has been swept under the carpet.
		
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The poor policing and bent stewards will also be part of the reason England got a stadium ban. Not just the fan behaviour. If the security is not adequate enough, always likely to get punished. Sadly, there'll always be idiot "fans" wherever you go.


----------



## BiMGuy (Oct 22, 2021)

Do Villa have a game plan beyond kicking the Arsenal players?


----------



## fundy (Oct 22, 2021)

Well thats a bit better  

Utterly shocked how bad villa have been, assume they go to 4 at the back 2nd half and flood the midfield with some bodies


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Do Villa have a game plan beyond kicking the Arsenal players?
		
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The refs been shocking .
Laccazette stood on the foot of a Villa player nothing.
Mings identical challenge yellow.
He’s jumped three foot in the air to win a pen lad gets the ball but follows through a tad but not enough for the reaction.
Abamayang jumping in front of the keeper kicking the ball out of his hands is a stonewall yellow 
Villa have been awful but he’s waited until they have gone 2 down before doing anything assuming he does .


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			Well thats a bit better 

Utterly shocked how bad villa have been, assume they go to 4 at the back 2nd half and flood the midfield with some bodies
		
Click to expand...

Bit late now should have done that after 15 mins the players are not happy they are all over the place.
Good from Gunners though.


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bit late now should have done that after 15 mins the players are not happy they are all over the place.
Good from Gunners though.
		
Click to expand...


much better from Arsenal but Villa been super complicit massive improvement actually picking a midfield. Hopefully theyll stop this stupid theory of who wins the penalty doesnt take it going forward mind! If Mings is an international defender..............


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2021)

Better, much much better  Lets hope we can build from this now!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			much better from Arsenal but Villa been super complicit massive improvement actually picking a midfield. Hopefully theyll stop this stupid theory of who wins the penalty doesnt take it going forward mind! If Mings is an international defender..............
		
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We don’t have a glut of good CBS though.
Havnt watched much of Arsenal this year but they look good .
Gabriel looks a very good player.


----------



## fundy (Oct 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			We don’t have a glut of good CBS though.
Havnt watched much of Arsenal this year but they look good .
Gabriel looks a very good player.
		
Click to expand...


been very hit and miss, good against a complicit spurs and very good tonight against an awful villa, the rest been nothing to write home about!

we have some good players but rarely put it together of late, players often looking confused as to structure and roles, much better structure tonight with Lokonga in there with Partey and ESR having room to play (hes crucial to most of whats good going forward)

Tavares first full game and to say we didnt miss Tierney a massive compliment


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## 4LEX (Oct 22, 2021)

Arsenal are in big trouble if they view that as a very good performance. Started well, missed some great chances and got lucky with a dire VAR decision. Villa's first half was without doubt the worst performance I've seen from a team and manager all season. Smith knew it wasn't working after 15 minutes yet did nothing. Arsenal started the second slowly and got a fortunate goal against the run of play, then Villa dominated and missed 2 absolute sitters. An entertaining but comical game.

Arsenal will finish 6-8th for the next few years, they've become the old Spurs.


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## fundy (Oct 23, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Arsenal are in big trouble if they view that as a very good performance. Started well, missed some great chances and got lucky with a dire VAR decision. Villa's first half was without doubt the worst performance I've seen from a team and manager all season. Smith knew it wasn't working after 15 minutes yet did nothing. Arsenal started the second slowly and got a fortunate goal against the run of play, then Villa dominated and missed 2 absolute sitters. An entertaining but comical game.

Arsenal will finish 6-8th for the next few years, they've become the old Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

6th-8th would be a decent result based on current resources and the state the clubs been in for several years

As for that being a very good performance, compared to the most of the others this year it was!!!! Arent we allowed to at least enjoy the games we do win relatively easily (as there is going to be far more that we dont!)


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 23, 2021)

Seeing reports that Negotiations between Salah & Liverpool have reached a stalemate,apparently he’s wanting over £400k pw & Liverpool are having none of it.
He’ll definitely be at Newcastle next season 
😂😂


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## pokerjoke (Oct 23, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seeing reports that Negotiations between Salah & Liverpool have reached a stalemate,apparently he’s wanting over £400k pw & Liverpool are having none of it.
He’ll definitely be at Newcastle next season 
😂😂
		
Click to expand...

If he’s the best in the world atm that’s a fair weekly wage.
Unfortunately Liverpool haven’t got any oil money and are run the right way,so yes your right he will leave,however he has got 2 years left on his contract.
He will also have to go to a club that never plays Liverpool because he will be upset 😭😭


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 23, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seeing reports that Negotiations between Salah & Liverpool have reached a stalemate,apparently he’s wanting over £400k pw & Liverpool are having none of it.
He’ll definitely be at Newcastle next season
😂😂
		
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I did love the interviews yesterday about how he wanted to stay at liverpool for the rest of his career and sky were reporting this as though it was as simple as that. I don't blame Salah but reporters really shouldn't be showing this as though it's a revelation and will happen as fact. Like any player at a big club, he will stay as long as the pay offer is big enough. If it isn't he is off. The rest is just pr. We know it, they know it, why insult us with these headlines as fact?


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 23, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seeing reports that Negotiations between Salah & Liverpool have reached a stalemate,apparently he’s wanting over £400k pw & Liverpool are having none of it.
He’ll definitely be at Newcastle next season
😂😂
		
Click to expand...

It's all paper talk, but if he goes the club will get a decent return on him and buy someone or 2.
I'm not worried, no player is bigger than the club.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 23, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It's all paper talk, but if he goes the club will get a decent return on him and buy someone or 2.
I'm not worried, no player is bigger than the club.
		
Click to expand...

What do you think they'd get for him next summer, assuming he hasn't signed a new contract before then, as he'll only have a year left on his contract? Would there be clubs contacting his agent and saying if he stays put for an extra year and leaves on a free at the end of his contract they will give him £X per week as there won't be a transfer fee?


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## Tashyboy (Oct 23, 2021)

How many teams. Concede five one week, then score five the following week 😳


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## Stuart_C (Oct 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			How many teams. Concede five one week, then score five the following week 😳
		
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Only The Ev could do that🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 23, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			What do you think they'd get for him next summer, assuming he hasn't signed a new contract before then, as he'll only have a year left on his contract? Would there be clubs contacting his agent and saying if he stays put for an extra year and leaves on a free at the end of his contract they will give him £X per week as there won't be a transfer fee?
		
Click to expand...

I don't know, but I do think whats happened with  Coutinho may temper Salah's own desire to go when you also consider how he didn't light the world up at Chelsea. When a player shines under a particular manager and their playing styles, I think they are better sticking with that situation and looking even better.
Personally, I don't think he will go and think this is all agent and paper talk just to drive up the players price and increase the agent's cut.


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## Billysboots (Oct 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			How many teams. Concede five one week, then score five the following week 😳
		
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More importantly, how many Super 6’s did that result totally screw up? And Leeds’ 186th minute equaliser cost me five points as well 🤬🤬


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 23, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I don't know, but I do think whats happened with  Coutinho may temper Salah's own desire to go when you also consider how he didn't light the world up at Chelsea. When a player shines under a particular manager and their playing styles, I think they are better sticking with that situation and looking even better.
Personally, I don't think he will go and think this is all agent and paper talk just to drive up the players price and increase the agent's cut.
		
Click to expand...

The only thing Salah will be thinking about is 💰💰💰💰
If he can get another £100k pw elsewhere he won’t give a monkeys about Klopp,Coutinho or Chelsea.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 23, 2021)

How many teams. Concede five one week, then score five the following week 😳


Stuart_C said:



			Only The Ev could do that🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Stu behave, the night is young. Let the beer kick in first 😁


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## Piece (Oct 23, 2021)

Anything happen today that I should be aware of?


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## Billysboots (Oct 23, 2021)

Piece said:



			Anything happen today that I should be aware of?
		
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Yes. Your lot completely buggered my Super 6. 🤬


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## Piece (Oct 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Yes. Your lot completely buggered my Super 6. 🤬
		
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Mine looked alright 😆


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 23, 2021)

Piece said:



			Anything happen today that I should be aware of?
		
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We wanted to help our good friends from Vicarage Road 👀


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 23, 2021)

Piece said:



			Anything happen today that I should be aware of?
		
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Nothing I can think of 🤔😂


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 23, 2021)

Mason Mount seems to be massively underrated imo.
Thoughts?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			How many teams. Concede five one week, then score five the following week 😳

Stu behave, the night is young. Let the beer kick in first 😁
		
Click to expand...


🤣 🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Oct 23, 2021)

Mad isn't it. Your team wins comfortably and you don't mention it, instead you talk about someone else....🤔🙄🤥


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## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

Well, if the cutting edge insightfulness of the managers’ pre-match interviews is matched by the performance of their players, Liverpool will win by ten.

Solskjaer displays all the tactical gumption of a toddler.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Well, if the cutting edge insightfulness of the managers’ pre-match interviews is matched by the performance of their players, Liverpool will win by ten.

Solskjaer displays all the tactical gumption of a toddler.
		
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Think he will try 4-2-4 again. Which was horrific. He has fooled himself into thinking Utd played well mid week, even in 1st half. Utd were abysmal in that 1st half.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Well, if the cutting edge insightfulness of the managers’ pre-match interviews is matched by the performance of their players, Liverpool will win by ten.

Solskjaer displays all the tactical gumption of a toddler.
		
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Can’t see anything but a Utd win
Liverpool’s midfield is pants and Mane’s not starting,so certainly more confident now.


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## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Think he will try 4-2-4 again. Which was horrific. He has fooled himself into thinking Utd played well mid week, even in 1st half. Utd were abysmal in that 1st half.
		
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It really concerns me, if that’s how he comes across when doing media work, what message does he convey to his players?

And surely he can’t think the first half on Wednesday was anything other than abysmal. Sure, they created one or two chances, but the space they conceded when Atalanta were in possession was truly staggering.


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## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t see anything but a Utd win
Liverpool’s midfield is pants and Mane’s not starting,so certainly more confident now.
		
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I hope you’re right. A defeat and this season is all but over, bar the FA Cup, because I doubt we’ll get out of our CL group with the fixtures we have left.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 24, 2021)

Salah to score anytime is 3/1 on sky bet 👍🏻


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## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

How easy was that? Wednesday night revisited.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

Can we sack Ole before half time? Utter shambles


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 24, 2021)

Were the 2 centre backs still in the changing room? That was awful.


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## Junior (Oct 24, 2021)

Bye bye ole


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## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

Junior said:



			Bye bye ole
		
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God, I hope so.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

I bet Ole is actually quite pleased with this performance, thinks we are a touch unlucky


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## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

Junior said:



			Bye bye ole
		
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You can’t blame Ole for school boy defending.
These are England internationals
Embarrassing


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## SteveW86 (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t see anything but a Utd win
Liverpool’s midfield is pants and Mane’s not starting,so certainly more confident now.
		
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20 mins in and it’s not looking great


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## SteveW86 (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You can’t blame Ole for school boy defending.
These are England internationals
Embarrassing
		
Click to expand...

Course you can, he’s the manager. Ultimately everything falls at his feet.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You can’t blame Ole for school boy defending.
These are England internationals
Embarrassing
		
Click to expand...

Yes you can, when it happens week after week after week. He has turned them into a horrific nervous defence, completely tactically unaware. At best, they are getting mixed signals in training, and have no idea when to press and when to not.


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## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You can’t blame Ole for school boy defending.
These are England internationals
Embarrassing
		
Click to expand...

He’s the manager. What is he telling them? The first goal was absolutely awful. They learn nothing despite these performances being put in week in, week out.

Shaw and Maguire are steady in an England shirt. Today they have been dreadful. Buck stops with the coaching staff, end of.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Course you can, he’s the manager. Ultimately everything falls at his feet.
		
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I’m the end it will be Ole that pays the price.
I will never blame Ole for players lack of effort or shambolic defending like that.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2021)

If Maguire is an international quality  defender, then Salah must be the best goalkeeper.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

What I would blame Ole for is not rollicking the players.
He should be on the sidelines screaming at them,showing the fans he’s holding them to account.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I’m the end it will be Ole that pays the price.
I will never blame Ole for players lack of effort or shambolic defending like that.
		
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Would you have blamed Mourinho or Van Gaal? Do you think any other top coach would accept a lack of effort? Would players fail to work hard under a coach they respect?


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## Papas1982 (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I’m the end it will be Ole that pays the price.
I will never blame Ole for players lack of effort or shambolic defending like that.
		
Click to expand...

If my staff at work arent pulling their finger out. It's me who gets em to. 

The players imo don't rates him. So whether he tries to get am or not it's clearly not working. 

That being said player for player liverpool are levels above. 

I'd say in Liverpool's formation you could pick one of 4 utd's players to replace Firmimho and that's it.


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## srixon 1 (Oct 24, 2021)

Junior said:



			Bye bye ole
		
Click to expand...

Steve Bruce is available


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## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If Maguire is an international quality  defender, then Salah must be the best goalkeeper.
		
Click to expand...

I bet the powers that be are looking for the receipt for blockhead


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## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Would you have blamed Mourinho or Van Gaal? Do you think any other top coach would accept a lack of effort? Would players fail to work hard under a coach they respect?
		
Click to expand...

No I wouldn’t expect it.
That’s why he should be up screaming at them.
The players are playing in front of 70,000 fans and against our biggest rivals,if u can’t get up for that you don’t deserve the shirt


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## IanM (Oct 24, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Salah to score anytime is 3/1 on sky bet 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing that out... jumped straight on it at 3/1


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## TopOfTheFlop (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t see anything but a Utd win
Liverpool’s midfield is pants and Mane’s not starting,so certainly more confident now.
		
Click to expand...

This matured like a fine wi… I mean like a fine Lambrusco 😂😂


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

Most players see red for that, not ronaldo it seems


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## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)

TopOfTheFlop said:



			This matured like a fine wi… I mean like a fine Lambrusco 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

It’ll be some win but easy given how pants the Liverpool midfield is


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## Junior (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You can’t blame Ole for school boy defending.
These are England internationals
Embarrassing
		
Click to expand...

What ???? Mate, we're a joke.  A laughing stock. Not organised, no formation, poor selection.  Woeful tactics.   I was willing to give him the benefit more than anyone but I've had enough now.  Liverpool look like they're defending with 10 and we look like we're only defending with 3. Out worked, out performed.

How can he set the team up with formation that leaves Salah unmarked all the time???.  Now I have to listen to Souness cream himself talking about it.   Shoot me now.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			Most players see red for that, not ronaldo it seems
		
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Theres still time to collect it


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## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			Most players see red for that, not ronaldo it seems
		
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That’s the most aggression we’ve shown all game.
Embarrassing ,I mean seriously embarrassing.
I know I like a bit of banter with the Liverpool fans on here ,but god almighty where do we go from here.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s the most aggression we’ve shown all game.
Embarrassing ,I mean seriously embarrassing.
I know I like a bit of banter with the Liverpool fans on here ,but god almighty where do we go from here.
		
Click to expand...

Realise taking Ronaldo back has done more harm than good?


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			No I wouldn’t expect it.
That’s why he should be up screaming at them.
The players are playing in front of 70,000 fans and against our biggest rivals,if u can’t get up for that you don’t deserve the shirt
		
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but if you say that, we need to sack the entire team. A team of players in which many, even those associated with Liverpool and City, think we have players that should at least make us contend. We could swap them for Pele's Brazil side, Liverpool or City's side, Barcelona 10 years ago, they'd win nothing under Ole. He is an absolute joke of a manager


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## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

Junior said:



			What ???? Mate, we're a joke.  A laughing stock. Not organised, no formation, poor selection.  Woeful tactics.   I was willing to give him the benefit more than anyone but I've had enough now.  Liverpool look like they're defending with 10 and we look like we're only defending with 3. Out worked, out performed.
		
Click to expand...

I agree we are a joke.
Who would you have played and for whom?


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Realise taking Ronaldo back has done more harm than good?
		
Click to expand...

How can you possibly blame Ronaldo? He is the only player who has at least been able to pass a ball today. Would Utd have an outstanding defence if Ronaldo had gone elsewhere?


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## chrisd (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			but god almighty where do we go from here.
		
Click to expand...

Dont ask us, we non Manure fans are loving it - and I dont even like Liverpool 😁😁😁😁


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## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

I really would have loved Roy Keane as a pundit today. If anything is as shocking as Utds performance, it is Sky's selection of pundits. Surely Defoe should have been at his day job today, Rangers were playing.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm sorry, but if you say that, we need to sack the entire team. A team of players in which many, even those associated with Liverpool and City, think we have players that should at least make us contend. We could swap them for Pele's Brazil side, Liverpool or City's side, Barcelona 10 years ago, they'd win nothing under Ole. He is an absolute joke of a manager
		
Click to expand...

We’ve had a few lately.


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## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)

At least the man utd fans can leave early for their journey back to Surrey


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## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I agree we are a joke.
Who would you have played and for whom?
		
Click to expand...

I’m not sure a change in personnel would make any difference, and therein lies the whole problem.


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## Imurg (Oct 24, 2021)

I'm sure Ronaldo must know some mega-rich Saudis.......


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m not sure a change in personnel would make any difference, and therein lies the whole problem.
		
Click to expand...


Bring Pogba on at Ht to find out?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			How can you possibly blame Ronaldo? He is the only player who has at least been able to pass a ball today. Would Utd have an outstanding defence if Ronaldo had gone elsewhere?
		
Click to expand...

Because when  he joined he was crowned the returning king who would inspire the rest of the team, who then caused a couple of young players to leave because they saw no game time with him there. He also bosses the manager, and tells Ole what and when he will play. He might have a magic foot, but his presence there is a cancer to what team unity there was.
Would be be allowed to swan around like that under Klopp or Pep? Of course not.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m not sure a change in personnel would make any difference, and therein lies the whole problem.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly 
It doesn’t matter who plays atm nobody is performing.
That’s why I asked Junior


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Because when  he joined he was crowned the returning king who would inspire the rest of the team, who then caused a couple of young players to leave because they saw no game time with him there. He also bosses the manager, and tells Ole what and when he will play. He might have a magic foot, but his presence there is a cancer to what team unity there was.
Would be be allowed to swan around like that under Klopp or Pep? Of course not.
		
Click to expand...

I think you just made that analysis up in your head. Unless you are one of those players in the dressing room?


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			Bring Pogba on at Ht to find out? 

Click to expand...


oh Ole


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I really would have loved Roy Keane as a pundit today. If anything is as shocking as Utds performance, it is Sky's selection of pundits. Surely Defoe should have been at his day job today, Rangers were playing.
		
Click to expand...

I've just said this at home. Roy Keane's head would have spun round in anger, it would have been tv gold 😆. A real shame.


----------



## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)




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## Pin-seeker (Oct 24, 2021)

IanM said:



			Thanks for pointing that out... jumped straight on it at 3/1
		
Click to expand...

No worries mate,printing money 😊


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 24, 2021)

Henderson will never make a better pass than that 👏. 

Superb on the break today, ridiculously clinical.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			Bring Pogba on at Ht to find out? 

Click to expand...

He’s already got an assist 😭


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 24, 2021)

Harry Maguire £80m.
Just think what £80m could buy you & UTD spent that on Harry Maguire 🤯😂


----------



## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)

Taking candy from a baby will be harder than scoring against Man U


----------



## IanM (Oct 24, 2021)

Blooming funny the shot of Fergy sucking a lemon, then Kenny laughing his head off


----------



## Imurg (Oct 24, 2021)

Ipswich fans now..


----------



## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)

IanM said:



			Blooming funny the shot of Fergy sucking a lemon, then Kenny laughing his head off
		
Click to expand...

I’d love to see Roy Keanes face


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

Bruce to be new Utd manager for last 10 minutes


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

and thats not a red card why?


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

rinse repeat that ones def a red


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 24, 2021)

I think Utd need to accept that they've lost the first set and hope that they manage to hold their serve a couple of times in the second set.


----------



## Imurg (Oct 24, 2021)

I think he's going now


----------



## Beezerk (Oct 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Henderson will never make a better pass than that 👏.

Superb on the break today, ridiculously clinical.
		
Click to expand...

I give Henderson a lot of flack but fair play to him, that was a proper worldy pass 👏


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

Can anyone tell me these players are playing for Ole!? Their heads are well and truly gone.


----------



## Junior (Oct 24, 2021)

Junior said:



			What ???? Mate, we're a joke.  A laughing stock. Not organised, no formation, poor selection.  Woeful tactics.   I was willing to give him the benefit more than anyone but I've had enough now.  Liverpool look like they're defending with 10 and we look like we're only defending with 3. Out worked, out performed.
		
Click to expand...




pokerjoke said:



			I agree we are a joke.
Who would you have played and for whom?
		
Click to expand...

I'd have Pogba for Fred,  But I wouldn't have played a pressing game so high up the pitch leaving us so exposed.   Shaw for some reason has forgot to even mark Salah.    I'd have counter attacked with Greenwood and Rashford.  

Pogba rightly sent off.  This is as bad as it gets.


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## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)

Pogba can empty out Ole’s locker


----------



## 3offTheTee (Oct 24, 2021)

Where is Liverpool Phil today?


Also who will win Man. U yellow cards( red counts as 2 yellow) or Liverpool goals?


----------



## Beezerk (Oct 24, 2021)

Is there a fire drill happening at Old Trafford? 😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Where is Liverpool Phil today?


Also who will win Man. U yellow cards( red counts as 2 yellow) or Liverpool goals?
		
Click to expand...

Not talking until final whistle, just in case a Utd comeback makes him look silly ......


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

Junior said:



			I'd have Pogba for Fred,  But I wouldn't have played a pressing game so high up the pitch leaving us so exposed.   Shaw for some reason has forgot to even mark Salah.    I'd have counter attacked with Greenwood and Rashford.  

Pogba rightly sent off.  This is as bad as it gets.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we don’t know which Pogba would turn up


----------



## Imurg (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not talking until final whistle, just in case a Utd comeback makes him look silly ...... 

Click to expand...

I suspect he's at work because he would be, quite rightly,  all over this..


----------



## 3offTheTee (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not talking until final whistle, just in case a Utd comeback makes him look silly ...... 

Click to expand...

Think he is safe today.


----------



## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)

Imurg said:



			I suspect he's at work because he would be, quite rightly,  all over this..
		
Click to expand...

Like a tramp on a sandwich


----------



## chrisd (Oct 24, 2021)

Are Liverpool trying to keep Oli in a job?


----------



## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)

The pogba heat map


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 24, 2021)

I’m sure the scousers (and Phil) will be putting a few posts in here later


----------



## IanM (Oct 24, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			I’m sure the scousers (and Phil) will be putting a few posts in here later
		
Click to expand...

isnt he watching MK DonS today?


----------



## Beezerk (Oct 24, 2021)




----------



## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

If Solskjaer thought anything of the club, and had any dignity, he’d resign.


----------



## BiMGuy (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t see anything but a Utd win
Liverpool’s midfield is pants and Mane’s not starting,so certainly more confident now.
		
Click to expand...

This aged well 😂


----------



## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)

At least Paul scholes is no longer the most embarrassed ex Man U player


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 24, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			This aged well 😂
		
Click to expand...

About 6 minutes


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I think you just made that analysis up in your head. Unless you are one of those players in the dressing room?
		
Click to expand...

You paid £80 mill was it for Sancho.....then take Ronaldo at the end of the window. Thats about as good a move as Maguire defending


----------



## Beezerk (Oct 24, 2021)




----------



## Reemul (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t see anything but a Utd win
Liverpool’s midfield is pants and Mane’s not starting,so certainly more confident now.
		
Click to expand...

Just logged on to the forums for the day and see this post, like lolololol, really undermines any sort of football know how me thinks


----------



## Baldy Bouncer (Oct 24, 2021)




----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Where is Liverpool Phil today?


Also who will win Man. U yellow cards( red counts as 2 yellow) or Liverpool goals?
		
Click to expand...

Left the ridiculous posts to the Man Utd fan 

Someone was right about someone getting battered 

Also interesting to see that we could rest a few key players and have a midfield that controlled the game 

What it does show is utd last season had a bit of a false position ( mainly down to Liverpool’s injury issues) - a good manager and a decent DM will get them close to the top 4


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

Reemul said:



			Just logged on to the forums for the day and see this post, like lolololol, really undermines any sort of football know how me thinks
		
Click to expand...

How dare you!! He's played the game don't yer know 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

After you've watched the villa 7 v 2 Liverpool for the 978956th time, stick this on. Its epic 🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

@pokerjoke stay off that gear you was  on the other day🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Left the ridiculous posts to the Man Utd fan

Someone was right about someone getting battered

Also interesting to see that we could rest a few key players and have a midfield that controlled the game

What it does show is utd last season had a bit of a false position ( mainly down to Liverpool’s injury issues) - a good manager and a decent DM will get them close to the top 4
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool had a few injuries last season,first I’ve heard of it 🤔😂😂😂


----------



## Junior (Oct 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Left the ridiculous posts to the Man Utd fan

Someone was right about someone getting battered

Also interesting to see that we could rest a few key players and have a midfield that controlled the game

What it does show is utd last season had a bit of a false position ( mainly down to Liverpool’s injury issues) - a good manager and a decent DM will get them close to the top 4
		
Click to expand...

False position ????  There's no such thing.   You finish where you finish. 

You're better than us,  you'll finish higher than us this season.  Klopps great, Ole's pants....... Milk it like I would if the shoe was on the other foot.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Oct 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Left the ridiculous posts to the Man Utd fan

Someone was right about someone getting battered

Also interesting to see that we could rest a few key players and have a midfield that controlled the game

What it does show is utd last season had a bit of a false position ( mainly down to Liverpool’s injury issues) - a good manager and a decent DM will get them close to the top 4
		
Click to expand...

Welcome back! You have been missed.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Oct 24, 2021)

Ole 1/5 next Manager’s odds to leave. Farke 7/2. Not ofter bookies are wrong


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

On a serious note, I hope my auld mucker @Slime is OK, I've missed his Gooooooaaallllllll memes🤣🤣

It's also proves how good your individual players are, it's how your players play as a team.

Henderson is rubbish, but he's just owned yernited for 90minutes🤣🤣

Parting shot.

United fans and hangers on: This will be forever in your memory. Everytime liverpool is mentioned this will come back to haunt you. Enjoy.

Karma 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Love and peace😘


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			On a serious note, I hope my auld mucker @Slime is OK, I've missed his Gooooooaaallllllll memes🤣🤣

It's also proves how good your individual players are, it's how your players play as a team.

Henderson is rubbish, but he's just owned yernited for 90minutes🤣🤣

Parting shot.

United fans and hangers on: This will be forever in your memory. Everytime liverpool is mentioned this will come back to haunt you. Enjoy.

Karma 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Love and peace😘
		
Click to expand...


Think the squirrells off hibernating Stu 

Enjoy


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

Pogba showed more passion in 15mins than the rest did.


Also have we seen the best of Bruno....


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			Think the squirrells off hibernating Stu 

Enjoy 

Click to expand...

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

😄😄


----------



## Beezerk (Oct 24, 2021)

Any word on the Liverpool player nailed by Pogba? Looked pretty bad.


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Any word on the Liverpool player nailed by Pogba? Looked pretty bad.
		
Click to expand...


Klopp said Keita was ok in the dressing room, sounded like a bruised shin, hope its nothing worse


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

“We weren’t good enough.”

Wow. Is that the best Solskjaer can muster when asked what went wrong?

Club legend, always, but a poor excuse for a manager. If he’s still there by the time we walk out at Spurs next Saturday there is something horribly, horribly wrong.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 24, 2021)

Am desperate for Ole to stay.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 24, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			“We weren’t good enough.”

Wow. Is that the best Solskjaer can muster when asked what went wrong?

Club legend, always, but a poor excuse for a manager. If he’s still there by the time we walk out at Spurs next Saturday there is something horribly, horribly wrong.
		
Click to expand...

short term Billy who would be your ideal replacement.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

Anyway I'm signing off, I've got to be at a job in the morning for 5 past De Gea..... I mean 5 past yernited, no sorry 5 past 7th err I mean.....


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Anyway I'm signing off, I've got to be at a job in the morning for 5 past De Gea..... I mean 5 past yernited, no sorry 5 past 7th err I mean.....
		
Click to expand...


more like on your 5th beer and only just warming up the celebrations


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 24, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			“We weren’t good enough.”

Wow. Is that the best Solskjaer can muster when asked what went wrong?

Club legend, always, but a poor excuse for a manager. If he’s still there by the time we walk out at Spurs next Saturday there is something horribly, horribly wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe I’m not remembering some of Ole’s UTD career, but does scoring a champions league winning goal make you a club legend?


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

fundy said:



			more like on your 5th beer and only just warming up the celebrations 

Click to expand...

I'mtaking it easy tonight.....I'm  not one for bragging but I'm touching double figures on the pints 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Maybe I’m not remembering some of Ole’s UTD career, but does scoring a champions league winning goal make you a club legend?
		
Click to expand...

I guess you forgot about his 6 Premiership titles and 2 FA Cups, along with scoring the winner in the Champions League. A player who, despite being on the bench a lot, never complained and scored many many goals, important ones for us. Including scoring 4 when coming on as a late sub against Forest. 

So yes, as a player a legend.

As a manager, not even close.


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Maybe I’m not remembering some of Ole’s UTD career, but does scoring a champions league winning goal make you a club legend?
		
Click to expand...

You’re right, you’re not!


----------



## Captainron (Oct 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'mtaking it easy tonight.....I'm  not one for bragging but I'm touching double figures on the pints 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Of wine?


----------



## Slime (Oct 24, 2021)

Hi everybody, have you missed me?
I couldn't have picked a better day to help my son move house!
Just got in and seen the score, read the reports and caught up on this thread.
Well, I think hilarious is the word.
0-5, surely they weren't all offside ......................... were they?
Ole HAS to go and, hopefully, he'll take Pogba with him.
Not sure I'll even watch it tonight on MOTD2.


Bugger .............................. just bugger.


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			short term Billy who would be your ideal replacement.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t know who’s in the market, Tash, so I genuinely don’t know. Believe it or not I’ve seen a number of fans on social media suggesting “club legend” Steve Bruce. Although I think he would do considerably better than Solskjaer, he doesn’t have the pedigree. 

And we’ve seen what employing club legends achieves. I was extremely underwhelmed when Solskjaer was appointed but was happy to be patient and give him time. But no more.


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			Hi everybody, have you missed me?
I couldn't have picked a better day to help my son move house!
Just got in and seen the score, read the reports and caught up on this thread.
Well, I think hilarious is the word.
0-5, surely they weren't all offside ......................... were they?
Ole HAS to go and, hopefully, he'll take that wanker Pogba with him.
Not sure I'll even watch it tonight on MOTD2.


Bugger .............................. just bugger. 

Click to expand...

I’ll watch what the pundits have to say. That’s the best bit these days.


----------



## Slime (Oct 24, 2021)

Oh, and just for *Stuart_C*


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

Slime said:



			Oh, and just for *Stuart_C*


View attachment 39166


View attachment 39167


View attachment 39168


View attachment 39169


View attachment 39170


View attachment 39171

Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Of wine?
		
Click to expand...

No no not yet, on the pints of moretti now 🤣🤣


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess you forgot about his 6 Premiership titles and 2 FA Cups, along with scoring the winner in the Champions League. A player who, despite being on the bench a lot, never complained and scored many many goals, important ones for us. Including scoring 4 when coming on as a late sub against Forest.

So yes, as a player a legend.

As a manager, not even close.
		
Click to expand...

No, hadn’t forgot about all the trophies he won there but for me that doesn’t make him a legend. If he had lead the line for all those years then that would be different. Very good player and servant for the club no doubt and not taking away any of his achievements for the club as a player, but not legend status for me.


----------



## Jimaroid (Oct 24, 2021)

I never want to forget this day so I’ve made something to hang on the wall.


----------



## Piece (Oct 24, 2021)

Anyone still think Shaw is the best left back in world football? Danny Rose was tied in knots by Salah the other week but Shaw had a right royal hole ripped today.


----------



## MadAdey (Oct 24, 2021)

Is Ole really this clueless when it comes to tactics? I am going to play against the hottest player on the planet at the minute today and just let all my players fly forwards and let him have all the space he wants................


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			No, hadn’t forgot about all the trophies he won there but for me that doesn’t make him a legend. If he had lead the line for all those years then that would be different. Very good player and servant for the club no doubt and not taking away any of his achievements for the club as a player, but not legend status for me.
		
Click to expand...

Was Robbie Fowler not a legend for Liverpool? He didn't score that many more goals for Liverpool than Ole did for Utd, so what did he achieve that makes him a legend for Liverpool?

Legendary status can often be achieved by defining moments. Ole's defining moment was in 99. However, the legendary status is on the foundation of what else he achieved for us.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			I never want to forget this day so I’ve made something to hang on the wall.


View attachment 39172

Click to expand...

Can I have a 10ftx8ft one please jim?


Send me your PayPal and I'll fire it across 🤣🤣


----------



## IanM (Oct 24, 2021)

One of my four ball is Utd… he’s even actually from there…. Lots of unanswered messages on the WhatsApp group this evening.

Spurs v Utd on the horizon?  Nil, nil, or five all? Two rudderless ships.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Was Robbie Fowler not a legend for Liverpool? He didn't score that many more goals for Liverpool than Ole did for Utd, so what did he achieve that makes him a legend for Liverpool?

Legendary status can often be achieved by defining moments. Ole's defining moment was in 99. However, the legendary status is on the foundation of what else he achieved for us.
		
Click to expand...

Fowler carried a Liverpool team. Ole never did nor was he capable of. 

Was Richardson a better midfielder than Gerrard just because he won a few titles? 

No he wasn't.


----------



## MadAdey (Oct 24, 2021)

Can anyone think of an excuse for what was seen today? Some managers complain that they do not get the support of the club in the transfer market, so what is Ole's excuse? He has spent $350m since he took over a couple of years ago, also take into account the fact that he already had the likes of Rashford, Shaw, Pogba, Bailly, De Gea, Fred just to mention some. Do not get me wrong I am a LIverpool supporter and loving this and I am sure Klopp wishes he could have had access to Ole money over the last couple of years.

I remember Fergie saying his aim at United when he took over was to knock Liverpool off their perch, the look on his face to see how United has gone sonce he left is funny.

All I can say is keep up the good work Ole.............


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Fowler carried a Liverpool team. Ole never did nor was he capable of.

Was Richardson a better midfielder than Gerrard just because he won a few titles?

No he wasn't.
		
Click to expand...

I never said he was. I also said legendary status is, in part, defined by being involved in key historic moments. Ole was a little more important to Utd than Keiran Richardson btw.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

Piece said:



			Anyone still think Shaw is the best left back in world football? Danny Rose was tied in knots by Salah the other week but Shaw had a right royal hole ripped today.
		
Click to expand...

He's not and never has been.

If @Liverpoolphil had made such  a statement all of the haters would've been on by now......

🎻🎻🎻 #poor us 


🤭


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2021)

A good player doesn't always make a good manager. Ole is proof of that.
Please keep him


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			Can anyone think of an excuse for what was seen today? Some managers complain that they do not get the support of the club in the transfer market, so what is Ole's excuse? He has spent $350m since he took over a couple of years ago, also take into account the fact that he already had the likes of Rashford, Shaw, Pogba, Bailly, De Gea, Fred just to mention some. Do not get me wrong I am a LIverpool supporter and loving this and I am sure Klopp wishes he could have had access to Ole money over the last couple of years.

I remember Fergie saying his aim at United when he took over was to knock Liverpool off their perch, the look on his face to see how United has gone sonce he left is funny.

All I can say is keep up the good work Ole.............
		
Click to expand...

Yes, the excuse is Ole is completely inept as a manager. Questions also need to be asked about coaching staff. If certain players simply don't work hard enough, get rid. Surprised Rashford has walked straight back into side. Not interested in developing Sancho, a player we were after for ages. Not interested in playing Lingard, a player who had shown a lot of great form. Diabolical by Ole


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			I never want to forget this day so I’ve made something to hang on the wall.


View attachment 39172

Click to expand...

Maybe you could do requests 😁

how about this 

“


Really looking forward to the game at the weekend I think we will batter Liverpool.
Keep Salah quiet they don’t have much more.
Looking forward to TAA going forward and Rashford exploiting the space behind him probably get a hatrick”


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I never said he was. I also said legendary status is, in part, defined by being involved in key historic moments. Ole was a little more important to Utd than Keiran Richardson btw.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Which is why the argument of Gerrard not winning the league doesn't make him the best PL midfielder is bollocks.


All posted by some on here, those who have played the game


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, the excuse is Ole is completely inept as a manager. Questions also need to be asked about coaching staff. If certain players simply don't work hard enough, get rid. Surprised Rashford has walked straight back into side. Not interested in developing Sancho, a player we were after for ages. Not interested in playing Lingard, a player who had shown a lot of great form. Diabolical by Ole
		
Click to expand...

If I were a Utd supporter (and I'm not), I would be worried about the signals being given to the likes of Sancho, Lingard or the Dutch kid who's name I forget.


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			A good player doesn't always make a good manager. Ole is proof of that.
Please keep him

Click to expand...


plenty of examples of late, more to follow no doubt too........


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If I were a Utd supporter (and I'm not), I would be worried about the signals being given to the likes of Sancho, Lingard or the Dutch kid who's name I forget.
		
Click to expand...

Donny van de beek


----------



## MadAdey (Oct 24, 2021)

I think Ole would make a good pub league manager. From what I remember playing Sunday league was you stick out your best sober 11 players and see what happens. No real tactics.


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

Premier league would be utterly vilified if the fans were behaving as they are in France Ligue 1 this season. Marseille fans at it tonight in a game against PSG, which PSG fans are banned from because of their behaviour in the reverse fixture! Neymar taking a corner being protected by a riot policeman with his shield up to stop the bottles being thrown!!!!

Marseille then have to play another game in the week thats a replay from an abandoned one earlier in the season. Last weeks St Etienne game was over an hour late finishing!


----------



## pendodave (Oct 24, 2021)

Can't believe yernighted have distracted everyone from the spuds shocker this afternoon. Typical.


----------



## chico (Oct 24, 2021)

As an impartial observer Manchester United have chosen several bad managers on the trot and their choices are actually getting worse. Ole was at best a second rate manager who would never have been considered for the job if he had not played for Utd. They have had no structure to their transfer policy that I can see and have squandered a fortune. 
The whole structure of the club needs an overhaul especially management and recruitment. They need to find a manager on an upward trajectory who plays with style, who that is I don't know but he's out there.


----------



## Swango1980 (Oct 24, 2021)

Surprisingly Pogba got a Sky Sports rating of 2 out of 10. I wonder what good things he did to get a rating higher than 0 or 1.


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Surprisingly Pogba got a Sky Sports rating of 2 out of 10. I wonder what good things he did to get a rating higher than 0 or 1.
		
Click to expand...

His haircut? Someone must like it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He's not and never has been.

If @Liverpoolphil had made such  a statement all of the haters would've been on by now......

🎻🎻🎻 #poor us


🤭
		
Click to expand...

Think I preferred it when you went missing last season when “operation unbearable” didn’t exactly go to plan La 😬😂👍🏻


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2021)

Anthony Taylor is a touch lucky tonight as well 

There prob should have been two further reds - Ronaldo for his kick at Jones and Maguire for the foul on Jota as he is clean through 


So what are United going to do now with the manager 

This time last year they could have had either Tuchel or Pochettino - both looking at long term projects

The managers that can be available right now - Conte who appears to be a more short term manager , Zidane who did wonders at Madrid.

Or do they look at someone like Loew ,try and tempt Mancini away from Italy.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			No I wouldn’t expect it.
That’s why he should be up screaming at them.
The players are playing in front of 70,000 fans and against our biggest rivals,if u can’t get up for that you don’t deserve the shirt
		
Click to expand...

There was only 35,000 in the second half.


----------



## DanFST (Oct 24, 2021)

West Ham beat spurs in a London derby today.


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2021)

DanFST said:



			West Ham beat spurs in a London derby today.
		
Click to expand...


more like a damp squib than a london derby wasnt it 

cracking (and deserved) result, just a worry Man U come knocking for Moyes again now


----------



## DaveR (Oct 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t see anything but a Utd win
Liverpool’s midfield is pants and Mane’s not starting,so certainly more confident now.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Fade and Die (Oct 24, 2021)

DanFST said:



			West Ham beat spurs in a London derby today.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, I was a bit worried as we had lost our last two games after playing in Europe but I needn’t have been. Tottenham are really poor.  I can't believe what a weak footballer Harry Kane has become. One nice cutback pass in the game and a header….That's all he offered. £100M ?


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

You know, what really depresses me is hearing Solskjaer say he is the man for the job, and that “we are too close to give up now”.

Too close to what? The club are as far away from winning the Premier League as they have been at any time since 2013. They are absolutely miles away, with this season promising to be a gigantic step backwards from the second place of last season.

No shape, no system, no plan, no leadership, on the pitch or off it. How is that in any way representative of being close to anything positive?

I’m genuinely flummoxed.


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 24, 2021)

Hiya 👋


----------



## Dando (Oct 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Anthony Taylor is a touch lucky tonight as well

There prob should have been two further reds - Ronaldo for his kick at Jones and Maguire for the foul on Jota as he is clean through


So what are United going to do now with the manager

This time last year they could have had either Tuchel or Pochettino - both looking at long term projects

The managers that can be available right now - Conte who appears to be a more short term manager , Zidane who did wonders at Madrid.

Or do they look at someone like Loew ,try and tempt Mancini away from Italy.
		
Click to expand...

Mick McCarthy is free


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2021)

Dando said:



			Mick McCarthy is free
		
Click to expand...

Steve Bruce


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 24, 2021)

DanFST said:



			West Ham beat spurs in a London derby today.
		
Click to expand...

Our players don't know the meaning of the words "London derby" anymore. 😆


----------



## chrisd (Oct 24, 2021)

Roy Hodgson is free ..................... and he might just show Manure how to defend 😁😁


----------



## 4LEX (Oct 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Anthony Taylor is a touch lucky tonight as well

There prob should have been two further reds - Ronaldo for his kick at Jones and Maguire for the foul on Jota as he is clean through


So what are United going to do now with the manager

This time last year they could have had either Tuchel or Pochettino - both looking at long term projects

The managers that can be available right now - Conte who appears to be a more short term manager , Zidane who did wonders at Madrid.

Or do they look at someone like Loew ,try and tempt Mancini away from Italy.
		
Click to expand...

You're right, both Ronaldo and Maguire were lucky to stay on. It's as if in these big games the refs have a narrative to keep the game interesting, rather than implement the rules. 

Utd missed the boat but will have Poch in charge next season, he's hating it at PSG. Zidane or Conte will be bad moves. The funny thing is Mourinho would've won Utd the title last season if he'd been backed. He wanted Martial and Pogba sold in 2018 and team players bought in. Everything he said has come to light. Won a second rate Utd side two trophies and finished second yet was hated on by Utd fans.


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## 4LEX (Oct 24, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			You know, what really depresses me is hearing Solskjaer say he is the man for the job, and that “we are too close to give up now”.

Too close to what? The club are as far away from winning the Premier League as they have been at any time since 2013. They are absolutely miles away, with this season promising to be a gigantic step backwards from the second place of last season.

No shape, no system, no plan, no leadership, on the pitch or off it. How is that in any way representative of being close to anything positive?

I’m genuinely flummoxed.
		
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Ole is a Championship manager and it's beyond embarrassing he's still there. If he had any self respect he'd resign. Except he doesn't and is waiting for a big payday. Grinning all the way to the bank, proper club legend. 

The fans are absolute mugs to put up with it.


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## 4LEX (Oct 24, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Fowler carried a Liverpool team. Ole never did nor was he capable of.

Was Richardson a better midfielder than Gerrard just because he won a few titles?

No he wasn't.
		
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Fowler was the best finisher of the 90's, even above Shearer. People forget how good he was from 93-99. Ole was just a budget poacher who played in a great side. He was happy to spend most of his career sat on a bench.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 24, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Roy Hodgson is free .....................
		
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Even for free that's expensive.


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## MadAdey (Oct 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Surprisingly Pogba got a Sky Sports rating of 2 out of 10. I wonder what good things he did to get a rating higher than 0 or 1.
		
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Maybe the United fans enjoyed watching him try to break Keitas legs, they didn't have anything else to chear about.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 25, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Ole is a Championship manager and it's beyond embarrassing he's still there. If he had any self respect he'd resign. Except he doesn't and is waiting for a big payday. Grinning all the way to the bank, proper club legend.

The fans are absolute mugs to put up with it.
		
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Book him Danno, murder 1


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## AmandaJR (Oct 25, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Fowler was the best finisher of the 90's, even above Shearer. People forget how good he was from 93-99. Ole was just a budget poacher who played in a great side. He was happy to spend most of his career sat on a bench.
		
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I always thought the same. Complete lack of ambition and happy to keep picking up a pay check and winner's medals for spending most of his time keeping the bench warm. I hope he stays for many more seasons...


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## Neilds (Oct 25, 2021)

People seem to forget that Ole won't be sacked any time soon - he hasn't had the vote of confidence from the Board yet.  As soon as he gets that, he will be out of the door within a week


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## Tashyboy (Oct 25, 2021)

4LEX said:



			You're right, both Ronaldo and Maguire were lucky to stay on.* It's as if in these big games the refs have a narrative to keep the game interesting, rather than implement the rules.*

Utd missed the boat but will have Poch in charge next season, he's hating it at PSG. Zidane or Conte will be bad moves. The funny thing is *Mourinho would've won Utd the title last season if he'd been backed.* He wanted Martial and Pogba sold in 2018 and team players bought in. Everything he said has come to light. Won a second rate Utd side two trophies and finished second yet was hated on by Utd fans.
		
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Not sending off Milner v City endorses that. Why did Pogba tackle go to VAR. How did the ref not see that. 
They would certainly of done better but win the title, that’s debatable.

Again one for the Utd fans. Who employs the managers, surely his head must be on the line. The sight of the fans by the leaving by the thousands very early surely sends a powerful message.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 25, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I always thought the same. Complete lack of ambition and happy to keep picking up a pay check and winner's medals for spending most of his time keeping the bench warm. I hope he stays for many more seasons...
		
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The fans leaving early reminded me of City doing them 1-6 at the swamp. 😁😉👍


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## larmen (Oct 25, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Fowler was the best finisher of the 90's, even above Shearer. People forget how good he was from 93-99. Ole was just a budget poacher who played in a great side. He was happy to spend most of his career sat on a bench.
		
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He scored the goal against Bayern Munich, what else would they want?

They upgraded to Ruud a little later anyway, I think.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2021)

Regardless of what OGS does as a manager his status with UTD surely can’t be questioned 

300 games and 130 plus goals for them including multiple winners - as well as the winner in the big one for them


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Regardless of what OGS does as a manager his status with UTD surely can’t be questioned

300 games and 130 plus goals for them including multiple winners - as well as the winner in the big one for them
		
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But the longer he clings on, Phil, the more that reputation will be tarnished irreparably. Even the biggest die hard knows that Solskjaer hasn’t a hope of turning this around - he hasn’t a clue what his next move should be.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 25, 2021)

On reflection of yesterday, my 2 main thoughts:


Ole was a legend as a Utd player. Not because he was a football great, but because of his service, his valuable contribution and of course his big moment in 1999. However, I am quickly coming to dislike him hugely, and severely damaging his reputation. It actually concerns me when a section of Utd fans still defend him, when it is clear the same level of defence would not be given to a manager who had no previous connections to Utd. It is as if his history as a player is blinding fans to the fact that Ole could well be the worst manager in PL history. Certainly from a tactical perspective, and it now looks like many of the players have given up. If Ole thinks he has what it takes, he is deluded. More likely, he knows he will never have a better deal than this (he is on £200,000 a week I believe), and so he is going to try an milk it for as long as possible, and only go if sacked so he gets compensation. Some United legend.
Devastated Roy Keane was not in the studio. Given he is on for most / all of the big games, and the fact he was announced as being on in MNF, I can only imagine a personal issue has resulted in his no show. However, no doubt the next time he is on the show, he will be asked for his opinion on United, and I cannot wait to hear it.
For those that watched the game against Atalanta on Wednesday, despite the comeback Scholes was very negative and said the first half destroyed any good feeling about what happened in the second. Despite constant messages for him to be a bit more positive, he summed it up by saying "if they play like that against Liverpool, just wait and see what happens". On Sunday evening he must have had a huge feeling of I told you so.


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			On reflection of yesterday, my 2 main thoughts:


Ole was a legend as a Utd player. Not because he was a football great, but because of his service, his valuable contribution and of course his big moment in 1999. However, I am quickly coming to dislike him hugely, and severely damaging his reputation. It actually concerns me when a section of Utd fans still defend him, when it is clear the same level of defence would not be given to a manager who had no previous connections to Utd. It is as if his history as a player is blinding fans to the fact that Ole could well be the worst manager in PL history. Certainly from a tactical perspective, and it now looks like many of the players have given up. If Ole thinks he has what it takes, he is deluded. More likely, he knows he will never have a better deal than this (he is on £200,000 a week I believe), and so he is going to try an milk it for as long as possible, and only go if sacked so he gets compensation. Some United legend.
Devastated Roy Keane was not in the studio. Given he is on for most / all of the big games, and the fact he was announced as being on in MNF, I can only imagine a personal issue has resulted in his no show. However, no doubt the next time he is on the show, he will be asked for his opinion on United, and I cannot wait to hear it.
For those that watched the game against Atalanta on Wednesday, despite the comeback Scholes was very negative and said the first half destroyed any good feeling about what happened in the second. Despite constant messages for him to be a bit more positive, he summed it up by saying "if they play like that against Liverpool, just wait and see what happens". On Sunday evening he must have had a huge feeling of I told you so.
		
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Hard to disagree with a word you say, I’m afraid.

The harsh reality is that we have been playing this poorly since this season started. We have got away with it because of the fixture list, no other reason. Even against Newcastle the team performance left a lot to be desired, but was masked by individual quality.

Paul Scholes was bang on in his assessment on Wednesday. It was another performance when individual quality, and the home crowd, dragged us over the finishing line. The first half in that game was abysmal, and the realists amongst us knew what was coming yesterday.

The most depressing aspect of this for me is hearing Solskjaer speak. His post match press conference yesterday was littered with comments about “progress made”, direction, being “close” to where he wants the club to be. What unadulterated drivel. He is totally and utterly out of his depth, a boy in a man’s world.

The worst thing which could have happened was the run of results after Solskjaer came in as the interim manager, and the ludicrous knee jerk reaction to that run when he was given a permanent deal before that season had even ended. The hierarchy were swept along by a wave of emotion, rather than sitting down and asking themselves “Hang on, we’ve had a good run, but just what are this guy’s credentials?”. The reality is, he came with none, and the final games of that season should have set alarm bells ringing.

Solskjaer was the wrong appointment. I was willing to allow him time, as there have been the occasional signs of mild encouragement. But there has been no sign whatsoever of steady improvement, quite the opposite in fact, and my patience ran out some time ago.

The club is poorly run. A shambles. Which is, regrettably, why I think we will still be typing the same several weeks hence.


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## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Hard to disagree with a word you say, I’m afraid.

The harsh reality is that we have been playing this poorly since this season started. We have got away with it because of the fixture list, no other reason. Even against Newcastle the team performance left a lot to be desired, but was masked by individual quality.

Paul Scholes was bang on in his assessment on Wednesday. It was another performance when individual quality, and the home crowd, dragged us over the finishing line. The first half in that game was abysmal, and the realists amongst us knew what was coming yesterday.

The most depressing aspect of this for me is hearing Solskjaer speak. His post match press conference yesterday was *littered with comments about “progress made”, direction, being “close” to where he wants the club to be.* What unadulterated drivel. He is totally and utterly out of his depth, a boy in a man’s world.

The worst thing which could have happened was the run of results after Solskjaer came in as the interim manager, and the ludicrous knee jerk reaction to that run when he was given a permanent deal before that season had even ended. The hierarchy were swept along by a wave of emotion, rather than sitting down and asking themselves “Hang on, we’ve had a good run, but just what are this guy’s credentials?”. The reality is, he came with none, and the final games of that season should have set alarm bells ringing.

Solskjaer was the wrong appointment. I was willing to allow him time, as there have been the occasional signs of mild encouragement. But there has been no sign whatsoever of steady improvement, quite the opposite in fact, and my patience ran out some time ago.

The club is poorly run. A shambles. Which is, regrettably, why I think we will still be typing the same several weeks hence.
		
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I couldn't understand him saying that. They've come 2nd last season, surely the logical step for "where you want to be" is winning the league? Losing 5-0 at home to one of the league rivals seems like a long, long way away from that. It's all gone a bit Ossie Ardiles / Kevin Keegan I think. Gung-ho, leave it to the players to express themselves, smash the weak teams but get turned over by anyone half decent. 

Spurs Utd will be interesting, I'm not sure who's worse at the minute.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 25, 2021)

I know Ole is getting some flak, but he must get some Praise helping the disabled to walk out early.


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I couldn't understand him saying that. They've come 2nd last season, surely the logical step for "where you want to be" is winning the league? Losing 5-0 at home to one of the league rivals seems like a long, long way away from that. It's all gone a bit Ossie Ardiles / Kevin Keegan I think. Gung-ho, leave it to the players to express themselves, smash the weak teams but get turned over by anyone half decent.

Spurs Utd will be interesting, I'm not sure who's worse at the minute.
		
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The Spurs game is a tough call, as both clubs are in a bit of a pickle. I suspect their inadequacies will cancel each other out!

Until relatively recently I was reluctant to call for Solskjaer’s sacking, because I do think a constant managerial merry-go-round is less than helpful. That said, he’s had three years. To see where we are right now, despite the summer signings, most notably Varane, is truly depressing.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			On reflection of yesterday, my 2 main thoughts:


Ole was a legend as a Utd player. Not because he was a football great, but because of his service, his valuable contribution and of course his big moment in 1999. However, I am quickly coming to dislike him hugely, and severely damaging his reputation. It actually concerns me when a section of Utd fans still defend him, when it is clear the same level of defence would not be given to a manager who had no previous connections to Utd. It is as if his history as a player is blinding fans to the fact that Ole could well be the worst manager in PL history. Certainly from a tactical perspective, and it now looks like many of the players have given up. If Ole thinks he has what it takes, he is deluded. More likely, he knows he will never have a better deal than this (he is on £200,000 a week I believe), and so he is going to try an milk it for as long as possible, and only go if sacked so he gets compensation. Some United legend.
Devastated Roy Keane was not in the studio. Given he is on for most / all of the big games, and the fact he was announced as being on in MNF, I can only imagine a personal issue has resulted in his no show. However, no doubt the next time he is on the show, he will be asked for his opinion on United, and I cannot wait to hear it.
For those that watched the game against Atalanta on Wednesday, despite the comeback Scholes was very negative and said the first half destroyed any good feeling about what happened in the second. Despite constant messages for him to be a bit more positive, he summed it up by saying "if they play like that against Liverpool, just wait and see what happens". On Sunday evening he must have had a huge feeling of I told you so.
		
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You take an absolute lesson in possibly one of the biggest Club fixtures in the world and your 2 main thoughts upon reflection are slag off your manager, who has possibly over achieved and then hang the words of 2 ex-players.

Isn’t this attitude part of the Man Utd problem? Who cares what ex-players think? How about highlighting the fact the 11 players on the pitch couldn’t string 2 passes together, failed to pick up the opposition and got dragged about like rag dolls.

For all the coaching in the world I’d expect any international footballer to be able to read the game or recognise when an opposition player is in acres of space and needs to be stopped, yes it can happen once or twice, but time and time again…

Plus, you are not going to be at the level of City, Lpool or Chelsea at the moment and maybe not for 2-3yrs even if you sack Ole.

I get you maybe embarrassed by your Club, but pointing it in the direction of one man and hanging on the words of ex-pros who haven’t achieved anything like Ole has as a manager is quite bewildering.


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## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You take an absolute lesson in possibly one of the biggest Club fixtures in the world and your 2 main thoughts upon reflection are slag off your manager, who has possibly over achieved and then hang the words of 2 ex-players.

Isn’t this attitude part of the Man Utd problem? Who cares what ex-players think? How about highlighting the fact the 11 players on the pitch couldn’t string 2 passes together, failed to pick up the opposition and got dragged about like rag dolls.

For all the coaching in the world I’d expect any international footballer to be able to read the game or recognise when an opposition player is in acres of space and needs to be stopped, yes it can happen once or twice, but time and time again…

Plus, you are not going to be at the level of City, Lpool or Chelsea at the moment and maybe not for 2-3yrs even if you sack Ole.

I get you maybe embarrassed by your Club, but pointing it in the direction of one man and hanging on the words of ex-pros who haven’t achieved anything like Ole has as a manager is quite bewildering.
		
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He is getting the balance completely wrong to be fair. He had two box-to-box midfielders with nobody holding or protecting the defence. In attack he effectively plays 3 strikers and one very attacking midfielder. It's nominally a 4-2-3-1 but plays more like a 4-0-2-4.


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You take an absolute lesson in possibly one of the biggest Club fixtures in the world and your 2 main thoughts upon reflection are slag off your manager, who has possibly over achieved and then hang the words of 2 ex-players.

Isn’t this attitude part of the Man Utd problem? Who cares what ex-players think? How about highlighting the fact the 11 players on the pitch couldn’t string 2 passes together, failed to pick up the opposition and got dragged about like rag dolls.

_*For all the coaching in the world I’d expect any international footballer to be able to read the game or recognise when an opposition player is in acres of space and needs to be stopped, yes it can happen once or twice, but time and time again…*_

Plus, you are not going to be at the level of City, Lpool or Chelsea at the moment and maybe not for 2-3yrs even if you sack Ole.

I get you maybe embarrassed by your Club, but pointing it in the direction of one man and hanging on the words of ex-pros who haven’t achieved anything like Ole has is quite bewildering.
		
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But those players perform at a different level in their international colours. Why? Because they are properly coached, understand their role, and understand where they fit into a system. There is none of that at Old Trafford, so whilst the players must take a small portion of the blame, the manager takes overall responsibility. The buck stops with him.

I do say that to suggest otherwise is a little naive. If you want any evidence of managerial influence on performance look no further than Chelsea. Almost overnight Tuchel’s approach brought about massive change on the pitch.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He is getting the balance completely wrong to be fair. He had two box-to-box midfielders with nobody holding or protecting the defence. In attack he effectively plays 3 strikers and one very attacking midfielder. It's nominally a 4-2-3-1 but plays more like a 4-0-3-3.
		
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He’s getting a lot more than the balance completely wrong, I’m not trying to say Ole is the right man etc, I don’t care tbh, I’ve got enough worries with my own team, but the last thing on my mind is what 2 ex-players think about us.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 25, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Not sending off Milner v City endorses that. *Why did Pogba tackle go to VAR. How did the ref not see that.*
They would certainly of done better but win the title, that’s debatable.

Again one for the Utd fans. Who employs the managers, surely his head must be on the line. The sight of the fans by the leaving by the thousands very early surely sends a powerful message.
		
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Same ref;






And it's not the only time.

As for Ronaldo, if this isn't a red;






then why was this?






And they wonder why fans think there is an agenda.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			But those players perform at a different level in their international colours. Why? Because they are properly coached, understand their role, and understand where they fit into a system. There is none of that at Old Trafford, so whilst the players must take a small portion of the blame, the manager takes overall responsibility. The buck stops with him.

I do say that to suggest otherwise is a little naive. If you want any evidence of managerial influence on performance look no further than Chelsea. Almost overnight Tuchel’s approach brought about massive change on the pitch.
		
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Absolutely the manager takes overall responsibility, not doubting that, but are you really suggesting Ole is somehow removing the ability of these players to speak and see? Just look at the lack of communication between Maquire and Shaw that led to the one of the goals.

Maybe someone can explain how Scholes and Keane slagging him off helps and who is the manager you think can do what Tuchel did.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You take an absolute lesson in possibly one of the biggest Club fixtures in the world and your 2 main thoughts upon reflection are slag off your manager, who has possibly over achieved and then hang the words of 2 ex-players.

Isn’t this attitude part of the Man Utd problem? Who cares what ex-players think? How about highlighting the fact the 11 players on the pitch couldn’t string 2 passes together, failed to pick up the opposition and got dragged about like rag dolls.

*For all the coaching in the world I’d expect any international footballer to be able to read the game or recognise when an opposition player is in acres of space and needs to be stopped, yes it can happen once or twice, but time and time again…*

Plus, you are not going to be at the level of City, Lpool or Chelsea at the moment and maybe not for 2-3yrs even if you sack Ole.

I get you maybe embarrassed by your Club, but pointing it in the direction of one man and hanging on the words of ex-pros who haven’t achieved anything like Ole has as a manager is quite bewildering.
		
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Your assessment is extremely flawed. I spoke of 2 ex players, but I could highlight nearly every pundit in the football world if you want. The performance was shocking and Ole is firmly to blame. This is not a one off performance. This is week in, week out. Before Atlanta game Ole said we were playing 4-2-4 and I panicked. Sure enough, we were battered in 1st half, and lucky to get back in it in second half. We then played the same side against Liverpool, and I was deflated.

Yes, the players have been awful, the work ethic terrible. But there is absolutely zero chance you'd get the same work ethic if a great manager was in charge. 

And, for your bit on bold, this is EXACTLY why the management is responsible. You cannot expect individual players to figure it out themselves. You see Ronaldo quickly going to press the keeper, then looking back and his team mates behind him have not pressed, or worse still, have tried to press, not got there and left a massive amount of space behind them. You watch Magure try to take charge and cut out a ball, then realise one/two/three of his team mates have had the same idea. Suddenly they all get in each others way and leave acres of space behind them. This is why any team, no matter how good the players are, need good coaching. So that they know where they need to be from a team perspective, and how to work together. Instead, Utd have a massive case of "the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing"


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## Swango1980 (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Absolutely the manager takes overall responsibility, not doubting that, but are you really suggesting Ole is somehow removing the ability of these players to speak and see? Just look at the lack of communication between Maquire and Shaw that led to the one of the goals.

Maybe someone can explain how Scholes and Keane slagging him off helps and who is the manager you think can do what Tuchel did.
		
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Why? Simply because I enjoy what others opinions are on my team, especially the likes of Keane and Scholes who I have huge respect for. I also enjoy listening to the oponion of others, even Carragher, and I've no gripe with a Liverpool fan who like to hear Carraghers opinion on Liverpool side. We are on this forum discussing Utd because we've an interest in each others opinions, or at least debate them.

Why do you even care about what WE have to say, by coming on this forum and criticising who we like to hear from? I also never said crtisicm will HELP United, simply that I was interested in hearing what they have to say. It is why TV channels employ such people. Unless you think these ex players should be praising United? In my opinion, both are probably spot on.

The manager needs to go, but I would not be disappointed to see the back of Pogba. He has had plenty of time to become a shining light in the4 squad, yet big question marks always exist. I think the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Martial and even Bruno have terrible body language now, and look disinterested in games when things go badly. I worry they'll turn out to be like Pogba, but I feel their attitude is more to do with "we are shocking, we should not be this bad, we have no idea how to fix it, we are running about like headless chickens".


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Your assessment is extremely flawed. I spoke of 2 ex players, but I could highlight nearly every pundit in the football world if you want. The performance was shocking and Ole is firmly to blame. This is not a one off performance. This is week in, week out. Before Atlanta game Ole said we were playing 4-2-4 and I panicked. Sure enough, we were battered in 1st half, and lucky to get back in it in second half. We then played the same side against Liverpool, and I was deflated.

Yes, the players have been awful, the work ethic terrible. But there is absolutely zero chance you'd get the same work ethic if a great manager was in charge.

And, for your bit on bold, this is EXACTLY why the management is responsible. You cannot expect individual players to figure it out themselves. You see Ronaldo quickly going to press the keeper, then looking back and his team mates behind him have not pressed, or worse still, have tried to press, not got there and left a massive amount of space behind them. You watch Magure try to take charge and cut out a ball, then realise one/two/three of his team mates have had the same idea. Suddenly they all get in each others way and leave acres of space behind them. This is why any team, no matter how good the players are, need good coaching. So that they know where they need to be from a team perspective, and how to work together. Instead, Utd have a massive case of "the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing"
		
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What assessment? Of you or the game, if it’s of me reading what you posted then you need to re-read the initial post I answered, ie *“On reflection of yesterday, my 2 main thoughts:”*

You didn’t mention nearly every pundit, just 2! But again I’ll ask, who cares what the pundits think? You even mentioned Roy Keane during the game yesterday! Are his thoughts really that important to you?

Once those players get on the pitch they have to take responsibility for their own actions, regardless of how wrong the set up or tactics are, you can’t keep putting everything on Ole and then saying it’s his fault because Maquire and Shaw are steady for England.


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Absolutely the manager takes overall responsibility, not doubting that, but are you really suggesting Ole is somehow removing the ability of these players to speak and see? Just look at the lack of communication between Maquire and Shaw that led to the one of the goals.
		
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I won’t say again what Swango has very eloquently written, other than to say it is obvious to anyone watching that the players, especially the back four, are clearly mired in confusion. They don’t know whether to stick or twist. And that is a direct result of the coaching.

I agree there will always be an element of players sorting issues during a game themselves, but the same failings have been evident for an eternity. That can only be down to a lack of direction from the coaching staff.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Why? Simply because I enjoy what others opinions are on my team, especially the likes of Keane and Scholes who I have huge respect for. I also enjoy listening to the oponion of others, even Carragher, and I've no gripe with a Liverpool fan who like to hear Carraghers opinion on Liverpool side. We are on this forum discussing Utd because we've an interest in each others opinions, or at least debate them.

Why do you even care about what WE have to say, by coming on this forum and criticising who we like to hear from? I also never said crtisicm will HELP United, simply that I was interested in hearing what they have to say. It is why TV channels employ such people. Unless you think these ex players should be praising United? In my opinion, both are probably spot on.

The manager needs to go, but I would not be disappointed to see the back of Pogba. He has had plenty of time to become a shining light in the4 squad, yet big question marks always exist. I think the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Martial and even Bruno have terrible body language now, and look disinterested in games when things go badly. I worry they'll turn out to be like Pogba, but I feel their attitude is more to do with "we are shocking, we should not be this bad, we have no idea how to fix it, we are running about like headless chickens".
		
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Because on reflection of yesterdays game, if I was a fan of Utd and you, I’d of probably just typed the last paragraph above.

I also very much enjoy the pundits and getting their insight, good or bad, but 24hrs after a mauling to my biggest rival I can assure you, one of my two MAIN thoughts wouldn’t be what ex-players think.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			What assessment? Of you or the game, if it’s of me reading what you posted then you need to re-read the initial post I answered, ie *“On reflection of yesterday, my 2 main thoughts:”*

You didn’t mention nearly every pundit, just 2! But again I’ll ask, who cares what the pundits think? You even mentioned Roy Keane during the game yesterday! Are his thoughts really that important to you?

Once those players get on the pitch they have to take responsibility for their own actions, regardless of how wrong the set up or tactics are, you can’t keep putting everything on Ole and then saying it’s his fault because Maquire and Shaw are steady for England.
		
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I'd have loved to have seen/heard Keanes view, it would've been epic with him and Souey.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I won’t say again what Swango has very eloquently written, other than to say it is obvious to anyone watching that the players, especially the back four, are clearly mired in confusion. They don’t know whether to stick or twist. And that is a direct result of the coaching.

I agree there will always be an element of players sorting issues during a game themselves, but the same failings have been evident for an eternity. That can only be down to a lack of direction from the coaching staff.
		
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I get that mate, but as I put in my initial response to him, I was bewildered what his 2 main thoughts were, not the players attitudes or effort etc.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd have loved to have seen/heard Keanes view, it would've been epic with him and Souey.
		
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Me too, but neither of us are Utd fans 24hrs later still hanging out for what he thinks.
24hrs later I be more worried about the next game and how they pick themselves up.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 25, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd have loved to have seen/heard Keanes view, it would've been epic with him and Souey.
		
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I'm not sure Keane would have been able to put a sentence together. He would have just spoken odd words but not joined them together. I love it when he gets incandessant. The dream would be Souness, Keane and then to have Micah Richards sat giggling in the corner. I can just watch him laughing at Keane getting angry, it's like Gogglebox.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2021)

Ive got a feeling I'm going to have a great week🤭🤭

@Swango1980  would you like to retract your post that Shaw is better than Robertson?

We're all guilty of getting it wrong, just not as spectacularly wrong as you😉


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Me too, but neither of us are Utd fans 24hrs later still hanging out for what he thinks.
24hrs later I be more worried about the next game and how they pick themselves up.
		
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Generally I take what all pundits say with a pinch of salt but we all know how ruthless Keane is. More importantly though, Ole is his mate. Would he have thrown him under the bus?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Same ref;






And it's not the only time.

As for Ronaldo, if this isn't a red;






then why was this?






And they wonder why fans think there is an agenda.
		
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We can all find decisions that's gone against us that are similar. 

I don't want to see players sent off willy nilly but we also want consistency with decisions. 

Unfortunately it's almost impossible for the same ref to give the same decision week in week out  

They're not robots, it's human nature I suppose. 

What the PGMOL need to stop doing is putting refs in awkward positions.

I think a non local ref sends Ronaldo off.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Me too, but neither of us are Utd fans 24hrs later still hanging out for what he thinks.
24hrs later I be more worried about the next game and how they pick themselves up.
		
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The 1st point I made sums everything else up. My lack of faith in the manager, and how that impacts on everything else you mention. If I was to start questioning the manager, each individual player, the dinner lady, etc, after every single bad performance then at minimum I'd have no choice but to conclude we need to not only get rid of the manager, but virtually all the playing squad and any other staff members that are not pulling their weight. As a Utd fan, also, I've been questioning individual players for years. So, I do not need to have them at the forefront of my mind after every poor performance. My 1st point simply explained that as far as I'm concerned, Ole is absolutely out of his depth. He is the biggest problem at Utd. If we had a manager we had faith in, then we could then start questioning players again, however much of the attitude of players is down to Ole.

My second point was simply saying that, on a personal level, I'd have loved to have heard Roy Keane's opinion at half-time / full-time. I'm clearly not the only one, it looked like it was viral on twitter yesterday. And discussed much on Utd fan forums.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 25, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Ive got a feeling I'm going to have a great week🤭🤭

@Swango1980  would you like to retract your post that Shaw is better than Robertson?

We're all guilty of getting it wrong, just not as spectacularly wrong as you😉
		
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Haha, in all honesty, how can I make such an assessment at the moment when Shaw is playing in a side well and truly inept in tactics. It would be like saying Robertson is better than Shaw at football, because I saw Shaw play snooker and he was awful. My personal opinion, I'd rather have Shaw than Robertson. If Robertson was a Utd player at the moment, he'd look horrific. It is not like he could come into that side and we'd be much better defensively. The entire defensive unit does not exist (all 11 players as well, not just the back 4). They are all trying to figure it out themselves without any idea what their team mates are doing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2021)

__
		http://instagr.am/p/CVchVC_osBQ/


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## Tashyboy (Oct 25, 2021)

What makes me chuckle was the suggestion Maureen would do a lot better. the first season Maureen and Pep went head to head in the Prem there nothing to choose between the squads. I said to my lad “ Pep inspires and coaches players, Maureen leaves player out to dry”. What happened. Would pep, Klopp, Tuchel, poch improve Utd. Would Olé improve City, Liverpool , PSG, Chelsea. Not a cat in hells chance. If Utd get out of the group stages of the champs league they could be on the end of a proper hiding.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 25, 2021)

Would love to see stats for yardages covered by the Utd players.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 25, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Generally I take what all pundits say with a pinch of salt but we all know how ruthless Keane is. More importantly though, Ole is his mate. Would he have thrown him under the bus?
		
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How can you throw someone under the bus, if they are at the wheel of said bus?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Haha, in all honesty, how can I make such an assessment at the moment when Shaw is playing in a side well and truly inept in tactics. It would be like saying Robertson is better than Shaw at football, because I saw Shaw play snooker and he was awful. My personal opinion, I'd rather have Shaw than Robertson. If Robertson was a Utd player at the moment, he'd look horrific. It is not like he could come into that side and we'd be much better defensively. The entire defensive unit does not exist (all 11 players as well, not just the back 4). They are all trying to figure it out themselves without any idea what their team mates are doing.
		
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Oh come on Swango, you can do it, you'll feel better🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			How can you throw someone under the bus, if they are at the wheel of said bus?

Click to expand...

It'd be like a fast and furious scene, keane wins obviously.


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## MadAdey (Oct 25, 2021)

All United had to do in the summer was not spend all that money on a bench warmer and put htat effort into finding a holding Midfielder. You can't have 4 forwards that are not going ot chase back with 2 midfielders behind them that are not going ot stsay back. They needed a top class DM to hold the team together and help them get hte ball back.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You take an absolute lesson in possibly one of the biggest Club fixtures in the world and your 2 main thoughts upon reflection are slag off your manager, who has possibly over achieved and then hang the words of 2 ex-players.

Isn’t this attitude part of the Man Utd problem? Who cares what ex-players think? How about highlighting the fact the 11 players on the pitch couldn’t string 2 passes together, failed to pick up the opposition and got dragged about like rag dolls.

For all the coaching in the world I’d expect any international footballer to be able to read the game or recognise when an opposition player is in acres of space and needs to be stopped, yes it can happen once or twice, but time and time again…

Plus, you are not going to be at the level of City, Lpool or Chelsea at the moment and maybe not for 2-3yrs even if you sack Ole.

I get you maybe embarrassed by your Club, but pointing it in the direction of one man and hanging on the words of ex-pros who haven’t achieved anything like Ole has as a manager is quite bewildering.
		
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100% behind this post.
It absolutely shocks me the way some fans turn on people,people that have actually achieved something.
Ole is a Manchester Utd legend and always will be,he gave us one of the greatest moments in our history and now because we’ve lost a few games he personally getting slaughtered ( I would be ashamed of myself if I thought that way.

He’s unfortunately not the man for the job and I believe his time will come to an end.

I’m 100% with Paul (as an Ex player Stu  I always gave 100% effort,these players as Roy Keane 2 years ago said “they will throw Ole under the bus”.

They should be ashamed of their performance and efforts,strolling around whilst Liverpool players were sprinting around.
Yes that comes from the manager but also must come from within.
Attitude is everything in football and some players at Utd are shocking.
Time to see what Sancho,VDB and Cavani now have to offer,although I believe Cavani has been unlucky and really don’t expect much from the other 2 especially VDB.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 25, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Ole is a Championship manager and it's beyond embarrassing he's still there. If he had any self respect he'd resign. Except he doesn't and is waiting for a big payday. Grinning all the way to the bank, proper club legend. 

Absolute joke of a post

The fans are absolute mugs to put up with it.
		
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## Swango1980 (Oct 25, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			All United had to do in the summer was not spend all that money on a bench warmer and put htat effort into finding a holding Midfielder. You can't have 4 forwards that are not going ot chase back with 2 midfielders behind them that are not going ot stsay back. They needed a top class DM to hold the team together and help them get hte ball back.
		
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I agree that they should have focused on strengthening that position. However, it is not "all they had to do". Even if Utd had the best holding midfielder of all time, that would not be the magic black box that would solve all their problems and bring them into contention for the title. 

The players that United DO have in the squad certainly, individually, possess more talent than the players at other clubs in the Premier League / lower leagues (note, I do not say ALL clubs). That is why many of them are at the club, and been brought in for a lot of money. However, virtually every club in the PL are defensively better than Utd as a team. Not by a little, by miles. They are generally lesser players individually, but tactically they are light years ahead.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			All United had to do in the summer was not spend all that money on a bench warmer and put htat effort into finding a holding Midfielder. You can't have 4 forwards that are not going ot chase back with 2 midfielders behind them that are not going ot stsay back. They needed a top class DM to hold the team together and help them get hte ball back.
		
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If you think their problems are because of the lack of  a holding midfielder you're deluded. Their problems run deeper than 1 player in 1 position.

Henderson proves you don't need to be world class to run a midfield.  He bossed that game yesterday. 

They're tactically niave. He's got them playing a style of football that doesn't work.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 25, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			All United had to do in the summer was not spend all that money on a bench warmer and put htat effort into finding a holding Midfielder. You can't have 4 forwards that are not going ot chase back with 2 midfielders behind them that are not going ot stsay back. They needed a top class DM to hold the team together and help them get hte ball back.
		
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I was glad you needlessly bought Sancho instead of going for Rice for £80M. I think he would have fixed a lot of your problems.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 25, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			If you think their problems are because of the lack of  a holding midfielder you're deluded. Their problems run deeper than 1 player in 1 position.

Henderson proves you don't need to be world class to run a midfield.  He bossed that game yesterday.

They're tactically niave. *He's got them playing a style of football that doesn't work.*

Click to expand...

I agree, but I think you are being generous with that last sentence. I don't think he has got them playing any style whatsoever, let alone one that doesn't work. I think his team talk is something like:

"David, try and save as many shots as you can. Harry and Victor, try and get the ball when the opponents are attacking by making tackles and winning headers. Luke and Aaron, run up and down those wings and put crosses in, but try and defend as well when you need to. Scott and Fred, run about the middle of the park and make tackles. Bruno, play killer passes and maybe score if you can. Marcus, Mason and Christiano, make runs up front and try and score. Now, come on lads (as he claps his hands) lets do this. UNITED!"

The players then go out, and concede 1...2.....3......4........5 goals. Ole sits there looking confused, thinking "how on earth is this going so wrong, I told them to try and defend and to score goals, this is the opposite of what I told them". Meanwhile the players are running about the pitch like headless chickens, looking for a plan B, and are completely demoralised as the manager is hiding behind a wall.


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## Hobbit (Oct 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I won’t say again what Swango has very eloquently written, other than to say it is obvious to anyone watching that the players, especially the back four, are clearly mired in confusion. They don’t know whether to stick or twist. And that is a direct result of the coaching.

I agree there will always be an element of players sorting issues during a game themselves, but the same failings have been evident for an eternity. That can only be down to a lack of direction from the coaching staff.
		
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Don’t know if you saw the post match interview with Ole. He was asked whether or not he felt he’d got the tactics of a high press wrong. Not sure if he was dodging the question but he gave the impression he didn’t know, and “they would have to look at it.”

Sorry but a manager needs to recognise the need for tactical changes during the match, not when watching the video the day after. He’s just ruddy clueless.


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Don’t know if you saw the post match interview with Ole. He was asked whether or not he felt he’d got the tactics of a high press wrong. Not sure if he was dodging the question but he gave the impression he didn’t know, and “they would have to look at it.”

Sorry but a manager needs to recognise the need for tactical changes during the match, not when watching the video the day after. He’s just ruddy clueless.
		
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I get that not every manager wants to discuss tactics with interviewers or journalists. Some clearly don’t trust them so give as little away as possible, Alex Ferguson being a prime example.

But there’s a difference between being guarded and simply not having the answers to give. Solskjaer’s interviews are totally superficial, and have been since day one. At first I thought it may be he was just uncomfortable with the media, but as time has gone on, and things haven’t changed, I genuinely now believe the reason for the superficial responses is now very clear, because we see it on the pitch.

The answers are beyond his capabilities.


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## Dando (Oct 25, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Don’t know if you saw the post match interview with Ole. He was asked whether or not he felt he’d got the tactics of a high press wrong. Not sure if he was dodging the question but he gave the impression he didn’t know, and “they would have to look at it.”

Sorry but a manager needs to recognise the need for tactical changes during the match, not when watching the video the day after. He’s just ruddy clueless.
		
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he's suffering from arse and elbow syndrome


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			I was glad you needlessly bought Sancho instead of going for Rice for £80M. I think he would have fixed a lot of your problems.
		
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Except it wouldn’t of solved anything, as apparently, as soon as Utd players cross the white line they lose all ability to think for themselves, whilst rigidly carrying out Ole’s orders.


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Except it wouldn’t of solved anything, as apparently, as soon as Utd players cross the white line they lose all ability to think for themselves, whilst rigidly carrying out Ole’s orders.

Click to expand...

I know you’re teasing 😉, but I’ll reply anyway!

Jadon Sancho was a star in Germany, his stats being off the charts. Early days, but he’s not even been bang average at United so far. Donny Van de Beek, an integral part of a fantastic young Ajax side and a regular in the Dutch squad. Can’t get a kick. Aaron Wan-Bisakka a right back with huge potential and being touted as an England regular for years to come whilst at Palace, now distinctly average a lot of the time, frequently caught out of position. And Harry Maguire. A rock in an England shirt. Fantastic at Leicester, so much so that United were happy to pay whatever it took to get him. Described in an article this morning as “awful…..a better player when he was at Hull”.

The common denominator? The manager and coaching staff now looking after them. Devoid of confidence, utterly confused in everything they do and (those who actually play, anyway) making basic errors again and again.

These are not bad players. They simply aren’t being coached properly.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 25, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			What makes me chuckle was the suggestion Maureen would do a lot better. the first season Maureen and Pep went head to head in the Prem there nothing to choose between the squads. I said to my lad “ Pep inspires and coaches players, Maureen leaves player out to dry”. What happened. Would pep, Klopp, Tuchel, poch improve Utd. Would Olé improve City, Liverpool , PSG, Chelsea. Not a cat in hells chance. If Utd get out of the group stages of the champs league they could be on the end of a proper hiding.
		
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Lol

Pep and Mourinho had similar squads?pull the other one. 

Pep is a great coach. No doubt. But for me his legacy will always be that Barca side who had a group of generational talents. Would they  have been as successful without him. Probably not, but then the Spanish team of that era did well without him being their coach.....

But since then he hasn't one a trophy that you'd not expect him too. 

He banks the League Cup every year as you have more than 23 first team stars. At Bayern he arguably under achieved and has bottled the CL twice at City.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2021)

MadAdey said:



			All United had to do in the summer was not spend all that money on a bench warmer and put htat effort into finding a holding Midfielder. You can't have 4 forwards that are not going ot chase back with 2 midfielders behind them that are not going ot stsay back. They needed a top class DM to hold the team together and help them get hte ball back.
		
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For the money they spent on Sancho they could have got Ndini and been a stronger team


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 25, 2021)




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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2021)

These guys are comedy gold 😂😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452386571500597250


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For the money they spent on Sancho they could have got Ndini and been a stronger team
		
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Phil, the whole point is that, regardless of who United buy, they will never play as a cohesive side under Solskjaer. He simply doesn’t know how to get the best out of the assets he has. Even having Kante there wouldn’t make much difference.

I have long been one of Fred’s fiercest critics, and I know he was bought a few months pre-Solskjaer and it may just be he isn’t suited to the Premier League, but I’d love to see how he would perform in a City side managed by Pep, or a Liverpool one with Klopp in charge. He simply can’t be as bad as he has been for most of his time at United. No professional footballer, especially a Brazilian international, can be that bad, surely? It’s the team he’s playing in.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			These guys are comedy gold 😂😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452386571500597250






Click to expand...

You seen him when things aren’t going well?
Proper spits his dummy out 😂😂

Strange bloke.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Phil, the whole point is that, regardless of who United buy, they will never play as a cohesive side under Solskjaer. He simply doesn’t know how to get the best out of the assets he has. Even having Kante there wouldn’t make much difference.

I have long been one of Fred’s fiercest critics, and I know he was bought a few months pre-Solskjaer and it may just be he isn’t suited to the Premier League, but I’d love to see how he would perform in a City side managed by Pep, or a Liverpool one with Klopp in charge. He simply can’t be as bad as he has been for most of his time at United. No professional footballer, especially a Brazilian international, can be that bad, surely? It’s the team he’s playing in.
		
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what was missing a lot of times yesterday was someone disciplined to sit in the middle to ensure the cbs weren’t exposed - whilst A decent DM doesn’t suddenly make the team wins titles you wouldn’t have lost 5 nil with someone like Ndini yesterday 

So whilst I agree there are coaching issues especially when it comes to setting up - there is no one disciplined enough to just sit and do the dirty work.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			These guys are comedy gold 😂😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452386571500597250






Click to expand...

They're not Phil.

They're a pair of try hard divvies. Why can't they watch the game with their mates/family and enjoy it. Those who subscribe and watch them are the problem.

I couldn't think of anything worse.


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## fundy (Oct 25, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			They're not Phil.

They're a pair of try hard divvies. Why can't they watch the game with their mates/family and enjoy it. Those who subscribe and watch them are the problem.

I couldn't think of anything worse.
		
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you much prefer ArseTV dont you Stu


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			They're not Phil.

They're a pair of try hard divvies. Why can't they watch the game with their mates/family and enjoy it. Those who subscribe and watch them are the problem.

I couldn't think of anything worse.
		
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That’s what makes them comedy gold - the fact that they even broadcast it and then some sit there and watch it , but I think most watch it because of the reactions. It’s not a patch on AFTV though 😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I know you’re teasing 😉, but I’ll reply anyway!

Jadon Sancho was a star in Germany, his stats being off the charts. Early days, but he’s not even been bang average at United so far. Donny Van de Beek, an integral part of a fantastic young Ajax side and a regular in the Dutch squad. Can’t get a kick. Aaron Wan-Bisakka a right back with huge potential and being touted as an England regular for years to come whilst at Palace, now distinctly average a lot of the time, frequently caught out of position. And Harry Maguire. A rock in an England shirt. Fantastic at Leicester, so much so that United were happy to pay whatever it took to get him. Described in an article this morning as “awful…..a better player when he was at Hull”.

The common denominator? The manager and coaching staff now looking after them. Devoid of confidence, utterly confused in everything they do and (those who actually play, anyway) making basic errors again and again.

These are not bad players. They simply aren’t being coached properly.
		
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I’m not, strange as it may seem, saying Ole is not problem or the main issue, I also “get” that the only people who want him as your manager are opposition fans.

But, and it’s a massive but imo, when are the players going to be held accountable, you were playing your biggest rival in world football and the 11 that started the match were an embarrassment to your club.

1-0, 2-0, OK, stick to the managers plan it may come good, but after 15 minutes some of your players should of been going ballistic at each other, there was no leader on the pitch, no one willing to stand up and be counted, absolutely no passion.

The players you mention, Sancho and VDB, who knows if they are struggling to adapt to playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world, look at Chelsea with De Bruyne and Salah. But the other 2, you don’t go from playing well for your Country and rubbish for your club and then blame the manager for your lack of confidence.

You could of put 11 guys off this forum in a Utd shirt yesterday and you’d of seen more passion.

Moyes, Mourinho, Van Gaal, now Ole, none good enough for Utd and never the players fault.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			you much prefer *ArseTV* dont you Stu 

Click to expand...

I've never seen that 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️😉


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s what makes them comedy gold - the fact that they even broadcast it and then some sit there and watch it , but I think most watch it because of the reactions. It’s not a patch on AFTV though 😂
		
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## Dando (Oct 25, 2021)

They’ve put Ole in the new club badge


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m not, strange as it may seem, saying Ole is not problem or the main issue, I also “get” that the only people who want him as your manager are opposition fans.

But, and it’s a massive but imo, when are the players going to be held accountable, you were playing your biggest rival in world football and the 11 that started the match were an embarrassment to your club.

1-0, 2-0, OK, stick to the managers plan it may come good, but after 15 minutes some of your players should of been going ballistic at each other, there was no leader on the pitch, no one willing to stand up and be counted, absolutely no passion.

The players you mention, Sancho and VDB, who knows if they are struggling to adapt to playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world, look at Chelsea with De Bruyne and Salah. But the other 2, *you don’t go from playing well for your Country and rubbish for your club and then blame the manager for your lack of confidence.*

You could of put 11 guys off this forum in a Utd shirt yesterday and you’d of seen more passion.

Moyes, Mourinho, Van Gaal, now Ole, none good enough for Utd and never the players fault.
		
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Leadership wise, Maguire is a truly awful captain. He’s not one to shout instructions or encouragement, and on the face of it shows very little in the way of on-pitch leadership. But I’m not sure who else in the squad stands out as a potential captain.

I do take issue with the words in bold type! If Maguire and Shaw have lost the plot at Old Trafford, make schoolboy errors and lack confidence, whilst being able to turn it on a few days earlier in an England shirt, I’m not sure who else you can possibly hold responsible other than Solskjaer. Good, steady players on a Wednesday don’t become pub league players three days later - it’s down to what they’re being instructed to do, or not as the case may be, by Solskjaer.

As I’ve already said, whether any of us like England’s style of play or not, and I don’t, at least they have a very defined system and it is clear that the players know their role. It’s largely why they nearly won the Euros despite some pretty turgid performances. At United, it’s the complete opposite - the difference couldn’t possibly be more stark. 

That simply has to impact on performance, surely.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 25, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We can all find decisions that's gone against us that are similar.

I don't want to see players sent off willy nilly but we also want consistency with decisions.

Unfortunately it's almost impossible for the same ref to give the same decision week in week out

They're not robots, it's human nature I suppose.

What the PGMOL need to stop doing is putting refs in awkward positions.

I think a non local ref sends Ronaldo off.
		
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It's not who the decisions were against Stu, it's the competence; I've only used ours as I'm familiar with them.

The same referee should be able to give the same decisions week in week out; I accept that there will be some difference between individual referees as to where they draw the line, but as long as they draw it consistently I have no problem with that.

I've no desire to see players sent off willy nilly, but I'd like the laws applied consistently, and if that's the result is it the referee's fault for applying the laws or the players' fault for breaking them?

I accept that some decisions have a degree of opinion to them but there were three stonewall reds for me yesterday; Ronaldo's assault, Maguire (I believe) taking out a player clean through on goal, and Pogba which they eventually got right.  Simply not good enough, and that was supposed to be our best referee.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Leadership wise, Maguire is a truly awful captain. He’s not one to shout instructions or encouragement, and on the face of it shows very little in the way of on-pitch leadership. But I’m not sure who else in the squad stands out as a potential captain.

I do take issue with the words in bold type! If Maguire and Shaw have lost the plot at Old Trafford, make schoolboy errors and lack confidence, whilst being able to turn it on a few days earlier in an England shirt, I’m not sure who else you can possibly hold responsible other than Solskjaer. Good, steady players on a Wednesday don’t become pub league players three days later - it’s down to what they’re being instructed to do, or not as the case may be, by Solskjaer.

As I’ve already said, whether any of us like England’s style of play or not, and I don’t, at least they have a very defined system and it is clear that the players know their role. It’s largely why they nearly won the Euros despite some pretty turgid performances. At United, it’s the complete opposite - the difference couldn’t possibly be more stark.

That simply has to impact on performance, surely.
		
Click to expand...

How about the players themselves take responsibility, I can understand confusion over tactics or who is meant to take up what position etc, but surely Ole can’t take their ability to defend or talk to one another or the basic ability to pass the ball to another team mate.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's not who the decisions were against Stu, it's the competence; I've only used ours as I'm familiar with them.

The same referee should be able to give the same decisions week in week out; I accept that there will be some difference between individual referees as to where they draw the line, but as long as they draw it consistently I have no problem with that.

I've no desire to see players sent off willy nilly, but I'd like the laws applied consistently, and if that's the result is it the referee's fault for applying the laws or the players' fault for breaking them?

I accept that some decisions have a degree of opinion to them but there were three stonewall reds for me yesterday; Ronaldo's assault, Maguire (I believe) taking out a player clean through on goal, and Pogba which they eventually got right.  Simply not good enough, and that was supposed to be our best referee.
		
Click to expand...

In defence of one of the decisions yesterday (Maguire), Jota did not have control of the ball and there was a covering defender, therefore it was a foul and yellow card.


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How about the players themselves take responsibility, I can understand confusion over tactics or who is meant to take up what position etc, but surely Ole can’t take their ability to defend or talk to one another or the basic ability to pass the ball to another team mate.
		
Click to expand...

Of course they take some of the responsibility, I’ve never said otherwise and neither have those players I have heard talk.

But the bulk of the responsibility lies with the manager and his coaching team.


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)




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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Of course they take some of the responsibility, I’ve never said otherwise and neither have those players I have heard talk.

But the bulk of the responsibility lies with the manager and his coaching team.
		
Click to expand...

Looks like we agree then.👍🏻


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## Billysboots (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Looks like we agree then.👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

In part 😉


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## garyinderry (Oct 25, 2021)

He couldn't send Ronaldo off yesterday as he didnt do a whole lot wrong.  Made a foul then kicked the ball as a player fell down on it. 
Now we know what he was doing. Ronaldo knows what he was doing and the ref knew what he was doing but he stayed with the bounds of the game by only kicking the ball and claiming to be "playing on". 
Sneaky yes. Petulant yes. Red card, afraid not. 

It was noting like the ball boy incident where he was lying on the ball completely blocking him from kicking it. Hazard simply kicked the ball boy. A complete farce of a situation to begin with.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			In defence of one of the decisions yesterday (Maguire), Jota did not have control of the ball and there was a covering defender, therefore it was a foul and yellow card.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't see a covering defender at the time (not saying you're wrong) and I haven't seen it since (round at a relatives and it was on but I wasn't supposed to be watching ) but my initial thought was that he was through with just the keeper to beat.  Not sure the ball being under control is an issue when the player is running through; not sure Mane had the ball under control when Christensen rugby tackled him at Stamford Bridge but it was the right decision.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 25, 2021)

as a Newcastle supporter, I am really looking forward to the time in maybe 4,5 or 6 years, when I have the opportunity to moan about the same sort of things that current Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool fans get to moan about.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I didn't see a covering defender at the time (not saying you're wrong) and I haven't seen it since (round at a relatives and it was on but I wasn't supposed to be watching ) but my initial thought was that he was through with just the keeper to beat.  Not sure the ball being under control is an issue when the player is running through; not sure Mane had the ball under control when Christensen rugby tackled him at Stamford Bridge but it was the right decision.
		
Click to expand...

The following must be considered:

- distance between the offence and the goal
- general direction of the play
- likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
- location and number of defenders

Obviously VAR must of agreed with the Ref to not to get involved with suggesting a review.

No idea on the Mane one mate, never seen it.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 25, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Generally I take what all pundits say with a pinch of salt but we all know how ruthless Keane is. More importantly though, Ole is his mate. Would he have thrown him under the bus?
		
Click to expand...

Would Keane take the job if offered?
Or is it better on Sky.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 25, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Would Keane take the job if offered?
Or is it better on Sky.
		
Click to expand...

Imagine Keane trying to manage Pogba & Lingard with their stupid celebrations & Tik Tok 😂


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			In part 😉
		
Click to expand...

Do said players say anything in training to the coaching staff ?
Surely international players would speak up before crossing the white line.

FWIW my thinking is your midfield is shocking .
This puts massive pressure on the defence.
The back four are all good players they don’t become awful overnight.
But they know there is nothing in front of them. But that is the managers/ head of buying players fault.
Just my opinion but the whole of the midfield needs sorting out.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 25, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Imagine Keane trying to manage Pogba & Lingard with their stupid celebrations & Tik Tok 😂
		
Click to expand...

Well I for one would like to see that fly on the wall documentary.
But when they are celebrating it means they have just scored


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 25, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I accept that some decisions have a degree of opinion to them but there were three stonewall reds for me yesterday; Ronaldo's assault, Maguire (I believe) taking out a player clean through on goal, and Pogba which they eventually got right.  Simply not good enough, and that was supposed to be our best referee.
		
Click to expand...

Bang on, and that's why I hated going to OT as a Liverpool fan.

They were 90/10 red cards and each time the ref initially gave a yellow.

Pogba went with both feet, one over the ball and full force.

Macguire was last man, central and no-one on the cover. I dont care what Dermott Gallagher says about the ball not being under control for Jota, the ball was on its way at a perfect pace and would have been under his control a millisecond later.

Ronaldo's first kick looked like it connected with Curtis's hip (not the one when he was still standing up) and the other kick was pure malice with a soupcon of petulance thrown in, the ball being in the way is the only mitigating factor.

Fernandes and Freds were only yellows though.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			In defence of one of the decisions yesterday (Maguire), Jota did not have control of the ball and there was a covering defender, therefore it was a foul and yellow card.
		
Click to expand...

Who was on the cover? A phantom?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Who was on the cover? A phantom?
		
Click to expand...

I think Wan Bissaka was in the box but it would have been a stretch for him to cut it off - imo it was a clear goal scoring opportunity and it was a bottle job , at 0-0 I reckon he gives it


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think Wan Bissaka was in the box but it would have been a stretch for him to cut it off - imo it was a clear goal scoring opportunity and it was a bottle job , at 0-0 I reckon he gives it
		
Click to expand...

I think he was about 5 yards away, square on, he'd have not got even close.

Edit:Confirmed at least 5-6 yards away, and the angle of the pass into Jota shows he would have been even further away by the time Jota would have got it.

There was categorically no cover.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 25, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Lol

Pep and Mourinho had similar squads?pull the other one.

Pep is a great coach. No doubt. But for me his legacy will always be that Barca side who had a group of generational talents. Would they  have been as successful without him. Probably not, but then the Spanish team of that era did well without him being their coach.....

But since then he hasn't one a trophy that you'd not expect him too.

He banks the League Cup every year as you have more than 23 first team stars. At Bayern he arguably under achieved and has bottled the CL twice at City.
		
Click to expand...

maureens first starting 11 at utd

de gea
anotonio Valencia
Danny Blind
Eric Baily
Luke Shaw 
Fellani
Andre herrera,
Juan Mata
Rooney
Anthony Martial
Ibrahimovic

Now tell me that’s a rubbish 11 that could not challenge City or even push for the title. It seems the sands of time have affected your memory. Now where I got that list from. Nearly half the team at one time or another were hung out to dry by Maureen. So yes he could of won the title but it’s odd how you can look at Pep who underachieved at Bayern, a club who never gave him the freedom he wanted. Yet Maureen never underachieved at Utd.
Peps legacy May well be at Barca. But from a City fans point of view. He has a legendary status already. 
I don’t know why you mention the league cup, Utd have not exactly covered themselves in glory. Out at the earliest stage this year since Maureen’s era. Yet Utd got to the semis the two previous seasons. And predictably failed.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 25, 2021)

I believe city’s was 
bravo
zabaleta
kompany
stones
kolarov
silva
fernandino
kdb
yaya
sterling
augero

at best De Gea, and Rooney get in that city side. 

if you look at The spending after that. Utd buying one big player a season hoping to step up. City spending 200-300m both seasons on countless squad ‘first teamers to add to the better team.

I’m not saying Jose didn’t poison the squad, which seems to be his thing now. But 2nd was as good as anyone who have expected imo. Which he attained. 

why should Bayern give pep everything he wants. They don’t have an endless pit of money like city do or Barcelona pretended to have.

no doubt he will be a legend for you. He’s added loads of titles. But none of them are unexpected territory now. If he doesn’t win another CL title then imo he’s under achieved in his career.


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 26, 2021)




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## Junior (Oct 26, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Leadership wise, Maguire is a truly awful captain. He’s not one to shout instructions or encouragement, and on the face of it shows very little in the way of on-pitch leadership. But I’m not sure who else in the squad stands out as a potential captain.

I do take issue with the words in bold type! *If Maguire and Shaw have lost the plot at Old Trafford, make schoolboy errors and lack confidence, whilst being able to turn it on a few days earlier in an England shirt, I’m not sure who else you can possibly hold responsible other than Solskjaer. Good, steady players on a Wednesday don’t become pub league players three days later - it’s down to what they’re being instructed to do, or not as the case may be, by Solskjaer.*

As I’ve already said, whether any of us like England’s style of play or not, and I don’t, at least they have a very defined system and it is clear that the players know their role. It’s largely why they nearly won the Euros despite some pretty turgid performances. At United, it’s the complete opposite - the difference couldn’t possibly be more stark.

That simply has to impact on performance, surely.
		
Click to expand...

Ole is to blame.  The team was set up all wrong. They waltzed through our midfield unchallenged, Shaw and AWB were too high up the pitch and all of a sudden it was man on man and they always seemed to have an extra player on the overlap. Maguire was always going to be up against it.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Same ref;






And it's not the only time.

As for Ronaldo, if this isn't a red;






then why was this?






And they wonder why fans think there is an agenda.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst Ronaldo was stupid, the ball was there and he kicked it.. 

Hazard , ball was out of play . The person he kicked it from wasn't a member of the outfield players so not reason to attempt a tackle . Can see why it's a red 

However that said at the time I thought the hazard thing was stupid


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How about the players themselves take responsibility, I can understand confusion over tactics or who is meant to take up what position etc, but surely Ole can’t take their ability to defend or talk to one another or the basic ability to pass the ball to another team mate.
		
Click to expand...

I think players can take responsibility to a point, especially if they are not following the managers orders. Players can also make individual mistakes, no matter how good they or the team are. They can take responsibility for that, in trying not to put themselves in the same position where bad luck / timing / decision can catch them out in the future.

However, the issues at United are far more fundamental than that. Calling players lazy, lack of desire, not good enough, etc are actually flawed arguments in themselves, and simply making excuses for the management. Not long ago, many were saying that United had the quality in the team to at least compete, maybe just lacking a top class defensive midfielder. Now all of a sudden people are accusing the players of a lack of passion, desire, workrate, quality. It just not that simple, unless United have a squad of David Bentley's, which would be extremely unlucky. Let us look back to last season, we finished second. How? Not because Liverpool had a few injuries, but because time and time again we came back from losing positions. I believe Utd won 31 points from losing positions, and finished with 74 points. How did we do that? It was down to the quality, mentality and character of the players we had on the pitch. Never give up. It certainly wasn't genius from Ole, the most he did was pop up on the sideline with a few minutes to go to clap his hands. If the mentality of the players at United was truly that bad, just imagine where they'd have finished last season, they could have struggled to finish in the top 10.

As fans, we watch what they do on the pitch and it is easy for us to point the fingers at them. And, I certainly do question them, but only to a point. No one can tell me that the entire team is filled with players who do not communicate or do not understand football. These are guys who have played at the highest levels of football all the way from being children, and they've ultimately ended up at one of the biggest clubs in the world. If you cannot communicate, you'll struggle to get in your local Saturday league football team, even if you are a relatively skilful player, let alone make it to the elite level. Certainly, no one stands out to be a leader like Roy Keane, but let's be clear, Roy Keane played in a team where he knew exactly what was expected of him tactically, and what was expected from his team mates. Whenever he ran, he did so with a purpose, not aimlessly. If things were not working out, it was clear what was wrong and he could issue instructions. Of course, normally this would just be to an individual player in individual moments, because the players as a whole also knew their jobs. So, it was not catastrophic issues he was trying to fix. And, regardless of whether he or anyone else barked orders out, they knew the manager would be doing EXACTY the same thing. It is unlikely Alex Ferguson was ever ordering the players to do one thing, and Keane was telling the players to ignore him and do something completely different.

At the moment we shout and scream at players for not running and allowing the opposition to get away from them. In the next sentence, we shout and scream at players for running to try and close someone down when it is never on, or running to intercept a ball, getting in the way of a team mate and leaving acres of space behind them. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they were just individual moments of madness, you can shout and scream at them all you want as it is a clear mistake. But it is happening all the time, if these mistakes are so clear, he should have been shouting and screaming at the players a long long time ago. And, if they continue to make them, he'd have dropped them by now, there are plenty of other players waiting for a chance. But, Ole cannot see it, and it wouldn't surprise me that when a player makes a stupid run, it is actually because they firmly believe it is what Ole wants them to do, that is the message he gives them. They could be given the fitness of Mo Farah and run further than any team has run before, and they'll still have severe issues. So, it is no wonder the players look lost and confused. To me, it has nothing to do with a lack of effort or lack of desire. I am sure most of them have a burning desire to win trophies and would be willing to run to the end of the earth for it. The problem is, they've been left to their own devices, or at best the tactics given to them are extremely basic and flawed. Fans look to players for inspiration, the players look to management for inspiration and direction. They're getting none of that, and it is only human nature to give up to some extent. It is almost like the players are holding up the white flag because they know they'll achieve nothing under this manager.

My predictions are one of 2 things. United, low on confidence, continue their terrible form against Spurs and Atalanta and then get battered by City. At that point, I think nothing will save Ole, and he will be gone (I'm still surprised he is in a job today). OR, we somehow pick up OK results against Spurs and Atalanta, despite bang average / poor performances and then shockingly beat City with a half decent performance. Yet again, this result saves Ole for another 6 months, and we stumble through the rest of the season to push for Europa League. We then buy someone like Rice and Ole tells us that we are on the right track and making great progress, and then the cycle continues.


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## Billysboots (Oct 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I think players can take responsibility to a point, especially if they are not following the managers orders. Players can also make individual mistakes, no matter how good they or the team are. They can take responsibility for that, in trying not to put themselves in the same position where bad luck / timing / decision can catch them out in the future.

However, the issues at United are far more fundamental than that. Calling players lazy, lack of desire, not good enough, etc are actually flawed arguments in themselves, and simply making excuses for the management. Not long ago, many were saying that United had the quality in the team to at least compete, maybe just lacking a top class defensive midfielder. Now all of a sudden people are accusing the players of a lack of passion, desire, workrate, quality. It just not that simple, unless United have a squad of David Bentley's, which would be extremely unlucky. Let us look back to last season, we finished second. How? Not because Liverpool had a few injuries, but because time and time again we came back from losing positions. I believe Utd won 31 points from losing positions, and finished with 74 points. How did we do that? It was down to the quality, mentality and character of the players we had on the pitch. Never give up. It certainly wasn't genius from Ole, the most he did was pop up on the sideline with a few minutes to go to clap his hands. If the mentality of the players at United was truly that bad, just imagine where they'd have finished last season, they could have struggled to finish in the top 10.

As fans, we watch what they do on the pitch and it is easy for us to point the fingers at them. And, I certainly do question them, but only to a point. No one can tell me that the entire team is filled with players who do not communicate or do not understand football. These are guys who have played at the highest levels of football all the way from being children, and they've ultimately ended up at one of the biggest clubs in the world. If you cannot communicate, you'll struggle to get in your local Saturday league football team, even if you are a relatively skilful player, let alone make it to the elite level. Certainly, no one stands out to be a leader like Roy Keane, but let's be clear, Roy Keane played in a team where he knew exactly what was expected of him tactically, and what was expected from his team mates. Whenever he ran, he did so with a purpose, not aimlessly. If things were not working out, it was clear what was wrong and he could issue instructions. Of course, normally this would just be to an individual player in individual moments, because the players as a whole also knew their jobs. So, it was not catastrophic issues he was trying to fix. And, regardless of whether he or anyone else barked orders out, they knew the manager would be doing EXACTY the same thing. It is unlikely Alex Ferguson was ever ordering the players to do one thing, and Keane was telling the players to ignore him and do something completely different.

At the moment we shout and scream at players for not running and allowing the opposition to get away from them. In the next sentence, we shout and scream at players for running to try and close someone down when it is never on, or running to intercept a ball, getting in the way of a team mate and leaving acres of space behind them. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they were just individual moments of madness, you can shout and scream at them all you want as it is a clear mistake. But it is happening all the time, if these mistakes are so clear, he should have been shouting and screaming at the players a long long time ago. And, if they continue to make them, he'd have dropped them by now, there are plenty of other players waiting for a chance. But, Ole cannot see it, and it wouldn't surprise me that when a player makes a stupid run, it is actually because they firmly believe it is what Ole wants them to do, that is the message he gives them. They could be given the fitness of Mo Farah and run further than any team has run before, and they'll still have severe issues. So, it is no wonder the players look lost and confused. To me, it has nothing to do with a lack of effort or lack of desire. I am sure most of them have a burning desire to win trophies and would be willing to run to the end of the earth for it. The problem is, they've been left to their own devices, or at best the tactics given to them are extremely basic and flawed. Fans look to players for inspiration, the players look to management for inspiration and direction. They're getting none of that, and it is only human nature to give up to some extent. It is almost like the players are holding up the white flag because they know they'll achieve nothing under this manager.

My predictions are one of 2 things. United, low on confidence, continue their terrible form against Spurs and Atalanta and then get battered by City. At that point, I think nothing will save Ole, and he will be gone (I'm still surprised he is in a job today). OR, we somehow pick up OK results against Spurs and Atalanta, despite bang average / poor performances and then shockingly beat City with a half decent performance. Yet again, this result saves Ole for another 6 months, and we stumble through the rest of the season to push for Europa League. We then buy someone like Rice and Ole tells us that we are on the right track and making great progress, and then the cycle continues.
		
Click to expand...

The best post I have seen on here in months.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 26, 2021)

[


Swango1980 said:



			I think players can take responsibility to a point, especially if they are not following the managers orders. Players can also make individual mistakes, no matter how good they or the team are. They can take responsibility for that, in trying not to put themselves in the same position where bad luck / timing / decision can catch them out in the future.

However, the issues at United are far more fundamental than that. Calling players lazy, lack of desire, not good enough, etc are actually flawed arguments in themselves, and simply making excuses for the management. Not long ago, many were saying that United had the quality in the team to at least compete, maybe just lacking a top class defensive midfielder. Now all of a sudden people are accusing the players of a lack of passion, desire, workrate, quality. It just not that simple, unless United have a squad of David Bentley's, which would be extremely unlucky. Let us look back to last season, we finished second. How? Not because Liverpool had a few injuries, but because time and time again we came back from losing positions. I believe Utd won 31 points from losing positions, and finished with 74 points. How did we do that? It was down to the quality, mentality and character of the players we had on the pitch. Never give up. It certainly wasn't genius from Ole, the most he did was pop up on the sideline with a few minutes to go to clap his hands. If the mentality of the players at United was truly that bad, just imagine where they'd have finished last season, they could have struggled to finish in the top 10.

As fans, we watch what they do on the pitch and it is easy for us to point the fingers at them. And, I certainly do question them, but only to a point. No one can tell me that the entire team is filled with players who do not communicate or do not understand football. These are guys who have played at the highest levels of football all the way from being children, and they've ultimately ended up at one of the biggest clubs in the world. If you cannot communicate, you'll struggle to get in your local Saturday league football team, even if you are a relatively skilful player, let alone make it to the elite level. Certainly, no one stands out to be a leader like Roy Keane, but let's be clear, Roy Keane played in a team where he knew exactly what was expected of him tactically, and what was expected from his team mates. Whenever he ran, he did so with a purpose, not aimlessly. If things were not working out, it was clear what was wrong and he could issue instructions. Of course, normally this would just be to an individual player in individual moments, because the players as a whole also knew their jobs. So, it was not catastrophic issues he was trying to fix. And, regardless of whether he or anyone else barked orders out, they knew the manager would be doing EXACTY the same thing. It is unlikely Alex Ferguson was ever ordering the players to do one thing, and Keane was telling the players to ignore him and do something completely different.

At the moment we shout and scream at players for not running and allowing the opposition to get away from them. In the next sentence, we shout and scream at players for running to try and close someone down when it is never on, or running to intercept a ball, getting in the way of a team mate and leaving acres of space behind them. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they were just individual moments of madness, you can shout and scream at them all you want as it is a clear mistake. But it is happening all the time, if these mistakes are so clear, he should have been shouting and screaming at the players a long long time ago. And, if they continue to make them, he'd have dropped them by now, there are plenty of other players waiting for a chance. But, Ole cannot see it, and it wouldn't surprise me that when a player makes a stupid run, it is actually because they firmly believe it is what Ole wants them to do, that is the message he gives them. They could be given the fitness of Mo Farah and run further than any team has run before, and they'll still have severe issues. So, it is no wonder the players look lost and confused. To me, it has nothing to do with a lack of effort or lack of desire. I am sure most of them have a burning desire to win trophies and would be willing to run to the end of the earth for it. The problem is, they've been left to their own devices, or at best the tactics given to them are extremely basic and flawed. Fans look to players for inspiration, the players look to management for inspiration and direction. They're getting none of that, and it is only human nature to give up to some extent. It is almost like the players are holding up the white flag because they know they'll achieve nothing under this manager.

My predictions are one of 2 things. United, low on confidence, continue their terrible form against Spurs and Atalanta and then get battered by City. At that point, I think nothing will save Ole, and he will be gone (I'm still surprised he is in a job today). OR, we somehow pick up OK results against Spurs and Atalanta, despite bang average / poor performances and then shockingly beat City with a half decent performance. Yet again, this result saves Ole for another 6 months, and we stumble through the rest of the season to push for Europa League. We then buy someone like Rice and Ole tells us that we are on the right track and making great progress, and then the cycle continues.
		
Click to expand...




Billysboots said:



			The best post I have seen on here in months.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve no doubt you are passionate about Utd, but, you seem to have slightly overreacted imo.

The discussion was/is about your performance on sunday and the lack of passion and commitment from the players, issues long term is something I know very little about, the only proper Man Utd fans (3 of them) that live near me are all season ticket holders and when discussing Utd, one of them will not have a word said against Ole, he believes your issues go back years and the failure to correctly replace AF.

As for last season, you finished on 74pts I believe, in previous seasons that wouldn’t of made top 4, so I’m not sure if that says Ole overachieved or the season was particularly weak overall.

As for were you go from here? Who would you get in? Would you be prepared to go backwards before moving forward? Whatever happens, I believe your players, any players in fact, should be giving 100% on the pitch and sadly yours didn’t on sunday.

Enjoy the rest of the season.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			[


I’ve no doubt you are passionate about Utd, but, you seem to have slightly overreacted imo.

The discussion was/is about your performance on sunday and the lack of passion and commitment from the players, issues long term is something I know very little about, the only proper Man Utd fans (3 of them) that live near me are all season ticket holders and when discussing Utd, one of them will not have a word said against Ole, he believes your issues go back years and the failure to correctly replace AF.

As for last season, you finished on 74pts I believe, in previous seasons that wouldn’t of made top 4, so I’m not sure if that says Ole overachieved or the season was particularly weak overall.

As for were you go from here? Who would you get in? Would you be prepared to go backwards before moving forward? Whatever happens, I believe your players, any players in fact, should be giving 100% on the pitch and sadly yours didn’t on sunday.

Enjoy the rest of the season.

Click to expand...

It is a good question, where do we go from here? I simply do not know in the short term. All I know is that Ole is no where near good enough. Being a season ticket holder does not make your opinion any more valid / important than others who are not. I bet there will be season ticket holders who will still be 100% behind Ole, while others will have been 100% against him long ago. That is obvious when you hear their interviews outside of the ground after the games.

There needs to be a long term goal in the plan, with a manager with a proven record. Honestly, anyone like Poch, Rogers, etc would be good choices in my opinion, they have a good track record. Conte and Zidane have been mentioned, but I'll hold my hands up and say I do not know enough about them to be convinced either way (is Conte another Mourinho, is Zidane a quiet type that just happened to inherit a great Madrid side). However, I'm certain their track record is infinitely better than Ole. Of course, this brings into question the ownership and the board. They need to shoulder the blame when they make bad decisions in the running of the club. Getting the right man is their responsibility, and Ole is not that guy.

Finally, just on claiming players need to take responsibility and criticism, clearly they DO. No one can tell be that the likes of Fred, McTomminay, Rashford, Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Lindelof, etc (well, I could name most of the entire squad) have not received criticism. In fact, the likes of Fred have probably been criticised more than virtually any other player in Premier League history, to the point where the default opinion is that he is an awful player, with an even worse reputation than the likes of Anderson and Kleberson. However, although he is by no means the complete player, far from it, he also shows glimpses of quality and also often shows a high work rate. I believe that the players, like Fred, have shouldered MORE than their fair share of criticism because they've been woefully exposed by the tactics of the management. The match against Liverpool was a perfect example, but we saw it in the previous matches as well. You come up against one of the worlds best sides, who are brilliantly coached, and we somehow expect Fred and McTomminay to stop them playing, with little or no help from Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno or Ronaldo. One of the best teams in the world easily outnumber them in midfield by 2 or 3 players. To me, it seems far too easy to blame the likes of Fred for being an awful player who is all over the place. Replace Fred with Henderson in that Utd team, Utd would have been in no way better for it. Henderson would not shine in that Utd side, nobody would. I'm nervous if the board actually believe the solution to the problem is to simply buy someone like Rice when they get the opportunity. 

I was sceptical about Ole getting the job in the first place, even more so when he got a permanent contract even though results were very good up to that point. I've tried to be as positive as possible, and really focused on some of the good things since Mourinho left. However, at no point have I ever had any good impression from him on a tactical point of view, nor impressed with his communication to the players during the game. I've been all for him getting a chance, and been more patient than I would have been for many other managers most likely. However, 3 years on. Awful performance after awful performance from a group of very capable players. Worst home defeat pretty much of all time against our biggest rivals, and most of us saw it coming. Got to be time to go. I'm too young to know what it was like before Fergie became successful, and his job was on the line. However, surely there is absolutely zero evidence that Utd are going to become Premier League champions and dominate for many years with Ole in charge? Maybe the board will completely write off this season and hopefully at least have a long term project set up for next season. It is just such a tough watch for a Utd fan in the meantime.


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## chrisd (Oct 26, 2021)

Let's hope that the long term project starts in the Championship 🤣🤣


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## Orikoru (Oct 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			maureens first starting 11 at utd

de gea
anotonio Valencia
Danny Blind
Eric Baily
Luke Shaw
Fellani
Andre herrera,
Juan Mata
Rooney
Anthony Martial
Ibrahimovic

*Now tell me that’s a rubbish 11* that could not challenge City or even push for the title. It seems the sands of time have affected your memory. Now where I got that list from. Nearly half the team at one time or another were hung out to dry by Maureen. So yes he could of won the title but it’s odd how you can look at Pep who underachieved at Bayern, a club who never gave him the freedom he wanted. Yet Maureen never underachieved at Utd.
Peps legacy May well be at Barca. But from a City fans point of view. He has a legendary status already.
I don’t know why you mention the league cup, Utd have not exactly covered themselves in glory. Out at the earliest stage this year since Maureen’s era. Yet Utd got to the semis the two previous seasons. And predictably failed.
		
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That team is awful!  Valencia was a midfielder playing at the back, Blind was painfully slow, Bailly is hit and miss and best (still there now and getting nowhere near the side). Herrera overrated and now playing in a third-rate league. The team they've got now is much better than that on paper. (Perhaps not in the way they're performing of course.)


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## Piece (Oct 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			They're not Phil.

They're a pair of try hard divvies. Why can't they watch the game with their mates/family and enjoy it. Those who subscribe and watch them are the problem.

I couldn't think of anything worse.
		
Click to expand...

NAIL. ON. THE. HEAD.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It is a good question, where do we go from here? I simply do not know in the short term. All I know is that Ole is no where near good enough. Being a season ticket holder does not make your opinion any more valid / important than others who are not. I bet there will be season ticket holders who will still be 100% behind Ole, while others will have been 100% against him long ago. That is obvious when you hear their interviews outside of the ground after the games.

There needs to be a long term goal in the plan, with a manager with a proven record. Honestly, anyone like Poch, Rogers, etc would be good choices in my opinion, they have a good track record. Conte and Zidane have been mentioned, but I'll hold my hands up and say I do not know enough about them to be convinced either way (is Conte another Mourinho, is Zidane a quiet type that just happened to inherit a great Madrid side). However, I'm certain their track record is infinitely better than Ole. Of course, this brings into question the ownership and the board. They need to shoulder the blame when they make bad decisions in the running of the club. Getting the right man is their responsibility, and Ole is not that guy.

Finally, just on claiming players need to take responsibility and criticism, clearly they DO. No one can tell be that the likes of Fred, McTomminay, Rashford, Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Lindelof, etc (well, I could name most of the entire squad) have not received criticism. In fact, the likes of Fred have probably been criticised more than virtually any other player in Premier League history, to the point where the default opinion is that he is an awful player, with an even worse reputation than the likes of Anderson and Kleberson. However, although he is by no means the complete player, far from it, he also shows glimpses of quality and also often shows a high work rate. I believe that the players, like Fred, have shouldered MORE than their fair share of criticism because they've been woefully exposed by the tactics of the management. The match against Liverpool was a perfect example, but we saw it in the previous matches as well. You come up against one of the worlds best sides, who are brilliantly coached, and we somehow expect Fred and McTomminay to stop them playing, with little or no help from Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno or Ronaldo. One of the best teams in the world easily outnumber them in midfield by 2 or 3 players. To me, it seems far too easy to blame the likes of Fred for being an awful player who is all over the place. Replace Fred with Henderson in that Utd team, Utd would have been in no way better for it. Henderson would not shine in that Utd side, nobody would. I'm nervous if the board actually believe the solution to the problem is to simply buy someone like Rice when they get the opportunity.

I was sceptical about Ole getting the job in the first place, even more so when he got a permanent contract even though results were very good up to that point. I've tried to be as positive as possible, and really focused on some of the good things since Mourinho left. However, at no point have I ever had any good impression from him on a tactical point of view, nor impressed with his communication to the players during the game. I've been all for him getting a chance, and been more patient than I would have been for many other managers most likely. However, 3 years on. Awful performance after awful performance from a group of very capable players. Worst home defeat pretty much of all time against our biggest rivals, and most of us saw it coming. Got to be time to go. I'm too young to know what it was like before Fergie became successful, and his job was on the line. However, surely there is absolutely zero evidence that Utd are going to become Premier League champions and dominate for many years with Ole in charge? Maybe the board will completely write off this season and hopefully at least have a long term project set up for next season. It is just such a tough watch for a Utd fan in the meantime.
		
Click to expand...

No worries mate, just the one point, a season ticket holder will see players week in/week out and will see a lot more of off the ball action than what the telly clappers will see, they can see what a defence is doing when their team are attacking etc.

You may disagree, but it is that, that imo gives their opinion more validity, anyone regardless of circumstance can be passionate and very knowledgeable about the team they support and the game in general, but we also have the glory hunters who can be very opinionated without having a clue.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			No worries mate, just the one point, a season ticket holder will see players week in/week out and will see a lot more of off the ball action than what the telly clappers will see, they can see what a defence is doing when their team are attacking etc.

You may disagree, but it is that, that imo gives their opinion more validity, anyone regardless of circumstance can be passionate and very knowledgeable about the team they support and the game in general, but we also have the glory hunters who can be very opinionated without having a clue.
		
Click to expand...

They also miss out on watching the action closely, unless they watch the fane on TV after. As a fan of a big club, we are lucky enough to ge able to watch virtually every game live on TV. If you were talking about supporting Lincoln City, then I'd accept your point. However, it is virtually redundant when talking about United.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			They also miss out on watching the action closely, unless they watch the fane on TV after. As a fan of a big club, we are lucky enough to ge able to watch virtually every game live on TV. If you were talking about supporting Lincoln City, then I'd accept your point. However, it is virtually redundant when talking about United.
		
Click to expand...

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, nothing can replace actually being there, yes, you may get close ups and endless replays of what the TV Companies decide they want you to see, but they won’t show the off the ball running and effort, boring stuff by some players which is often missed and unappreciatted by us telly clappers.


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## Beezerk (Oct 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, nothing can replace actually being there, yes, you may get close ups and endless replays of what the TV Companies decide they want you to see, but they won’t show the off the ball running and effort, boring stuff by some players which is often missed and unappreciatted by us telly clappers.
		
Click to expand...

Let's be absolutely honest here, who the heck watches what's going on off the ball at a football match? Most people have their eyes glued to the ball and maybe sometimes glimpse away if something catches their eye, otherwise it's following play and not seeing if player x has dropped deep to sweep or player y has dropped the nut on someone 😆


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			They also miss out on watching the action closely, unless they watch the fane on TV after. As a fan of a big club, we are lucky enough to ge able to watch virtually every game live on TV. If you were talking about supporting Lincoln City, then I'd accept your point. However, it is virtually redundant when talking about United.
		
Click to expand...

Watching at the ground has benefits in respect of seeing what the players do when the camera isn’t on them but as you say with most games now being broadcast one way or the other then most fans whether they be ones who fortunately can go to game or the ones Who have to watch on Telly can see a heck of the lot of the action - the one thing the guys watching on telly can see is the action replays , the slow Mo’s etc and with the modern cameras even a lot of the off the ball stuff even with things like Player cam - and then if there is someone who needs to be highlighted then it’s done in the studio. The only thing imo the match going fans have over the others is the atmosphere and the interaction with other fans

But going to game or sitting watching the Telly doesn’t make someone’s opinion more valid than the other.

There will be guys who go to the game who don’t have a clue and ones who watch the Telly who are very knowledgeable - it’s the worst discussion in football


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, nothing can replace actually being there, yes, you may get close ups and endless replays of what the TV Companies decide they want you to see, but they won’t show the off the ball running and effort, boring stuff by some players which is often missed and unappreciatted by us telly clappers.
		
Click to expand...

Ultimately, this discussion is between you and I, not between myself and your mate. All you are doing is hiding behind the opinion of 3 season ticket holders, as you claim they are "proper fans". It is an incredible argument to make, unless you are confident the tens of thousands of season ticket holders all hold the same opinion. I am pretty sure the tens of thousands of season ticket holders do not hold the same opinions, and could have massively different views. As I said, the evidence is there when you hear them speak outside the ground. I'm pretty confident that there will be some season ticket holders at Utd that generally agree with my comments. 

I also would happily debate Liverpool issues with Liverpool fans if I had any sort of opinion, but I wouldn't be so bold as to invalidate their opinion simply because I find out they are not a season ticket holder and that I once talked to a season ticket holder who had a different view. I'd be embarrassed by even suggesting that, especially as a non Liverpool fan. Despite them not holding a season ticket, I'd have to appreciate they probably watch most games, they read many more articles, watch youtube videos and fan reactions, are more self critical on their players than a non-fan etc. If you claim to know very little about the long term issues, then fine, but best to avoid getting into much of a debate on it if you don't know what you are on about. What happened on Sunday against Liverpool is not a short term issue, it is part of the long term problems we have been experiencing week in, week out. As a Utd fan, even when we win, it feels like an ordeal. I try to remember a time we go into a game, and it is pretty comfortable from start to finish. It just doesn't happen, to me it is a miracle we finished 2nd last year. A team that finishes second you'd expect quite a few "easy" wins, but it never felt that way. I dreamed of a time that we could go 2 or 3 goals up and just coast to a win, but it never seems to happen. Worse, we seem to go behind and need to push until the end. It is nice when you've got that ability, but rather it wasn't something you had to rely on almost weekly.

I also never claim to have all the answers, far from it. If I became manager I'd have many flaws myself, and be sacked in a month. If I was to take Fred's position in midfield, I'd never get a game. But, relative to what one would expect, Ole is a far far bigger problem than the players.


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## Billysboots (Oct 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, nothing can replace actually being there, yes, you may get close ups and endless replays of what the TV Companies decide they want you to see, but they won’t show the off the ball running and effort, boring stuff by some players which is often missed and unappreciatted by us telly clappers.
		
Click to expand...

Whenever I’m at Old Trafford, if the game’s a bit of a bore I choose a player to watch, and at times it pays dividends. You do, as you say, see so much more first hand.

Bruno Fernandes, when he first arrived, was a case in point. I went to a Europa League game just before Covid hit and I can tell you his movement off the ball was as good as I’ve ever seen. Incredible.

The biggest personal result I ever had was being able to say I adopted a similar tactic several years ago when sitting in the South Stand watching an utter bore fest against Newcastle. The first hour having been truly turgid I chose to watch Wayne Rooney, who was having a particularly grumpy afternoon. Fortunately for me, about two minutes later he scored that wonder volley from 20-odd yards in front of the Stretford End.

I’ve had the pleasure (?) of watching a ludicrously well organised Bayern Munich a few seasons back when Moyes was in charge. The compact, two banks of four were virtually impenetrable. Well drilled, everyone knew their role - typical German efficiency.

Alas, this season I have already witnessed first hand the utter chaos which is this Solskjaer side. Trust me, if there is any doubt whatsoever there shouldn’t be. This United side are every bit as bad as they look on television, and then some.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			No worries mate, just the one point, a season ticket holder will see players week in/week out and will see a lot more of off the ball action than what the telly clappers will see, they can see what a defence is doing when their team are attacking etc.

You may disagree, but it is that, that imo gives their opinion more validity, anyone regardless of circumstance can be passionate and very knowledgeable about the team they support and the game in general, but we also have the glory hunters who can be very opinionated without having a clue.
		
Click to expand...

This post deserves a proper standing ovation. Bravo sir.


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## Orikoru (Oct 26, 2021)

One player I got a new appreciation for when I use to go to Spurs games was Peter Crouch. On telly you'd think he was just a beanpole to launch crosses at sometimes. But in the game you'd see how hard he worked at closing down defenders, constantly being on the move, and a really good link up play with the ball at his feet as well.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Ultimately, this discussion is between you and I, not between myself and your mate. All you are doing is hiding behind the opinion of 3 season ticket holders, as you claim they are "proper fans". It is an incredible argument to make, unless you are confident the tens of thousands of season ticket holders all hold the same opinion. I am pretty sure the tens of thousands of season ticket holders do not hold the same opinions, and could have massively different views. As I said, the evidence is there when you hear them speak outside the ground. I'm pretty confident that there will be some season ticket holders at Utd that generally agree with my comments.

I also would happily debate Liverpool issues with Liverpool fans if I had any sort of opinion, but I wouldn't be so bold as to invalidate their opinion simply because I find out they are not a season ticket holder and that I once talked to a season ticket holder who had a different view. I'd be embarrassed by even suggesting that, especially as a non Liverpool fan. Despite them not holding a season ticket, I'd have to appreciate they probably watch most games, they read many more articles, watch youtube videos and fan reactions, are more self critical on their players than a non-fan etc. If you claim to know very little about the long term issues, then fine, but best to avoid getting into much of a debate on it if you don't know what you are on about. *What happened on Sunday against Liverpool is not a short term issue, it is part of the long term problems we have been experiencing week in, week out*. As a Utd fan, even when we win, it feels like an ordeal. I try to remember a time we go into a game, and it is pretty comfortable from start to finish. It just doesn't happen, to me it is a miracle we finished 2nd last year. A team that finishes second you'd expect quite a few "easy" wins, but it never felt that way. I dreamed of a time that we could go 2 or 3 goals up and just coast to a win, but it never seems to happen. Worse, we seem to go behind and need to push until the end. It is nice when you've got that ability, but rather it wasn't something you had to rely on almost weekly.

I also never claim to have all the answers, far from it. If I became manager I'd have many flaws myself, and be sacked in a month. If I was to take Fred's position in midfield, I'd never get a game. But, relative to what one would expect, Ole is a far far bigger problem than the players.
		
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The highlighted bit is a very important point.

In my opinion this goes as far back as Ferguson.

He knew in his last few seasons that he had to replace that back 4 but he also knew he never had time to rebuild. Signing RVP totally went against his usual plan. He adopted the old "we'll score more than you" approach.


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## Billysboots (Oct 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The highlighted bit is a very important point.

In my opinion this goes as far back as Ferguson.

He knew in his last few seasons that he had to replace that back 4 but he also knew he never had time to rebuild. Signing RVP totally went against his usual plan. He adopted the old "we'll score more than you" approach.
		
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Agreed. Ferguson went at precisely the right time, leaving a largely ageing squad. RVP won him that final title.

I think there was some strange recruitment prior to SAF retiring if I’m honest. The current malaise is nothing new - it’s probably a decade in the making - and the total chaos otherwise known as a transfer “policy”, where the club have made any number of signings not knowing how they fit into a plan, and have failed, repeatedly, to clear out the deadwood, has been at the heart of it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Ultimately, this discussion is between you and I, not between myself and your mate. All you are doing is hiding behind the opinion of 3 season ticket holders, as you claim they are "proper fans". It is an incredible argument to make, unless you are confident the tens of thousands of season ticket holders all hold the same opinion. I am pretty sure the tens of thousands of season ticket holders do not hold the same opinions, and could have massively different views. As I said, the evidence is there when you hear them speak outside the ground. I'm pretty confident that there will be some season ticket holders at Utd that generally agree with my comments.

I also would happily debate Liverpool issues with Liverpool fans if I had any sort of opinion, but I wouldn't be so bold as to invalidate their opinion simply because I find out they are not a season ticket holder and that I once talked to a season ticket holder who had a different view. I'd be embarrassed by even suggesting that, especially as a non Liverpool fan. Despite them not holding a season ticket, I'd have to appreciate they probably watch most games, they read many more articles, watch youtube videos and fan reactions, are more self critical on their players than a non-fan etc. If you claim to know very little about the long term issues, then fine, but best to avoid getting into much of a debate on it if you don't know what you are on about. What happened on Sunday against Liverpool is not a short term issue, it is part of the long term problems we have been experiencing week in, week out. As a Utd fan, even when we win, it feels like an ordeal. I try to remember a time we go into a game, and it is pretty comfortable from start to finish. It just doesn't happen, to me it is a miracle we finished 2nd last year. A team that finishes second you'd expect quite a few "easy" wins, but it never felt that way. I dreamed of a time that we could go 2 or 3 goals up and just coast to a win, but it never seems to happen. Worse, we seem to go behind and need to push until the end. It is nice when you've got that ability, but rather it wasn't something you had to rely on almost weekly.

I also never claim to have all the answers, far from it. If I became manager I'd have many flaws myself, and be sacked in a month. If I was to take Fred's position in midfield, I'd never get a game. But, relative to what one would expect, Ole is a far far bigger problem than the players.
		
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Wow, you really are precious! I did quite clearly state it was my opinion, at no time did I say it was correct.

I used the analogy of the 3 Season Ticket holders due to the fact they are genuine fans who are financially invested in the Club, at the same time I said up here in the NE as you get glory hunters, some of these guys have never even seen Utd play, even against Sunderland and Newcastle away, they’ve not put in the miles or the hours and IMO, they don’t get the same perspective on all players as those who go the games, hence why I (as in me) value the opinion of the season ticket holders.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Let's be absolutely honest here, who the heck watches what's going on off the ball at a football match? Most people have their eyes glued to the ball and maybe sometimes glimpse away if something catches their eye, otherwise it's following play and not seeing if player x has dropped deep to sweep or player y has dropped the nut on someone 😆
		
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Believe it not mate, some actually do watch certain players or glance to see what’s happening on the sideline etc, see Billyboots post for proof of that.👍🏻

Some of the greatest in the world done their best work off the ball.👍🏻


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The highlighted bit is a very important point.

In my opinion this goes as far back as Ferguson.

He knew in his last few seasons that he had to replace that back 4 but he also knew he never had time to rebuild. Signing RVP totally went against his usual plan. He adopted the old "we'll score more than you" approach.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, we've had problems ever since Fergie left, and the squad was in no way perfect when Moyes took over. However, whatever approach Fergie took in his last season, it was not a blind approach. He knew what he was doing, and he got the best out of that squad.

The issues since have been numerous. I felt sorry for Moyes, as everyone knew it would be an almost impossible task for anyone who took over. If Utd had a bad game the season before, no one doubted Fergie. It was a bad day for the players, a blip or the team needs strengthening. When Utd had a bad game under Moyes, the pressure was firmly on him, and no doubt the players would even question his methods, as they differed from Fergie. Natural human reaction.

I didn't know much about Van Gaal before he took over, but he came with a fairly high standing in the game. To me, he was a crazy man. I almost put him in Mourinho in the same category as their personalities were too big, in that is was all about them. I guess it worked for Jose in his early days at Chelsea, as he had all the senior players on board and he deflected all attention from them and onto him. But at United, when things didn't go well, he didn't have all the senior players with him, and his fall outs were too public. The fact he lived in a hotel always gave the impression to me that he was not committed, and did not want to be in Manchester a second longer than he needed to.

During the time of those 3 managers, our business in the transfer market was bizarre at times. I'd never accuse them of being tactically inept however, it just didn't work out, no matter how I wished it would. 

Since Ole has come in, I honestly feel we've improved in the transfer market. We got rid of big players like Sanchez, Lukaku, etc. (even though Lukaku did great for Inter, I think it was the right call). It feels like we've steadily built and improved the squad during each window. Yes, Ronaldo seems like the rare last minute signing that was not really expected. However, I will not start feeling sorry for Ole that he suddenly got Ronaldo in his side, especially as one of the positions fans were crying out for was a striker. It is a possibility that, if Ronaldo had not been signed, Ole could have been sacked by now, as he has been involved in our best moments this season. I love Cavani and Greenwood to death, but it would be a big assumption to say they'd have done the same as Ronaldo if he hadn't been there. But, we'll never know.

After Fergie and before Ole, I had no idea what the direction of the club was. It really just felt like trying to randomly buy yourself to success, sticking plaster here, sticking plaster there. After Ole, things seem to have settled down, and there seems to be a bit more direction, at least in terms of the transfer market. The club seem to have given him much more of a chance as well. Ole has not been a complete disaster, and I even like to think he can take credit for settling that side of things down. The issue now is different, in that we have a manager who is just not good enough from a tactical point of view. I think he is now losing the respect from players in the dressing room, as the frustration of fans becomes evident. Perhaps Covid and empty stadiums helped, as he and players were not subject to frustration in the crowd. I wasn't at Ronaldo's second debut, but it seemed like one of the best atmospheres at Old Trafford in decades, and I'm sure the players were on a high. However, against Liverpool, I do not remember such a toxic atmosphere by the fans. How quickly things can change. And, it is not because the fans are fickle and are annoyed by a few bad performances. They are performances that have been common for quite some time.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Watching at the ground has benefits in respect of seeing what the players do when the camera isn’t on them but as you say with most games now being broadcast one way or the other then most fans whether they be ones who fortunately can go to game or the ones Who have to watch on Telly can see a heck of the lot of the action - the one thing the guys watching on telly can see is the action replays , the slow Mo’s etc and with the modern cameras *even a lot of the off the ball stuff even with things like Player cam *- and then if there is someone who needs to be highlighted then it’s done in the studio. The only thing imo the match going fans have over the others is the atmosphere and the interaction with other fans

But going to game or sitting watching the Telly doesn’t make someone’s opinion more valid than the other.

There will be guys who go to the game who don’t have a clue and ones who watch the Telly who are very knowledgeable - it’s the worst discussion in football
		
Click to expand...

Didn't sky jib the player cam a few seasons ago? 

Where are those who follow it on twitter in the knowledgeable chart🤔

If you don't go,don't blow.

Have an opinion by all means but don't be calling for managers head etc from the comfort of your armchair.😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Didn't sky jib the player cam a few seasons ago?

Where are those who follow it on twitter in the knowledgeable chart🤔

If you don't go,don't blow.

Have an opinion by all means but don't be calling for managers head etc from the comfort of your armchair.😉
		
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well Twitter experts are one step below the manager 👍 they are currently waiting for the call after taking their champ manager team to the treble 3 years on the trot 

As for calling for the manager to go - I don’t see why someone who doesn’t go to games for many reason can’t demand the club change things ? Surely it’s not just restricted to 70k-80k fans when it comes to demanding that the manager goes etc 

Football is more than just the people who are lucky to go and watch their teams


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## Hobbit (Oct 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Didn't sky jib the player cam a few seasons ago?

Where are those who follow it on twitter in the knowledgeable chart🤔

If you don't go,don't blow.

Have an opinion by all means but don't be calling for managers head etc from the comfort of your armchair.😉
		
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Sorry Stu but you don’t make the rules on who can call for a manager’s head. You don’t have to be at the game to read a league table and see a string of poor results. There’s good, knowledgeable season ticket holders and there’s thick ones. Same goes for those that sit glued to the tv.

Yes, absolutely you get a better perspective from the stands but you still have to be bright enough to interpret what you see. I’ve been a season ticket holder and heard plenty of rubbish spouted in the stands.

I’ve seen some very perceptive comments on here from season ticket holders, and I’ve seen some dross. Same applies to those made by the armchair viewer.


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## Piece (Oct 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



*Let's be absolutely honest here, who the heck watches what's going on off the ball at a football match?* Most people have their eyes glued to the ball and maybe sometimes glimpse away if something catches their eye, otherwise it's following play and not seeing if player x has dropped deep to sweep or player y has dropped the nut on someone 😆
		
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All the time. That's how you learn. Only one player has the ball, meaning that 21 players don't have the ball. It is so important what the players without the ball are doing. I coach our kids to try and be in the right place at the right time, whether they are defending or attacking. Personally I learn so much from going to live games, watching the very best in action seeing what they do off the ball. City and Liverpool in their pomp are something to behold live; you just don't "see it" on the TV, despite the endless camera angles and analysis. When City flobbed us 6-0 at The Vic in Sept 2017, I remember coming away from the game thinking that's the best football I've seen live and that's how I want to coach my football.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 26, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Sorry Stu but you don’t make the rules on who can call for a manager’s head. You don’t have to be at the game to read a league table and see a string of poor results. There’s good, knowledgeable season ticket holders and there’s thick ones. Same goes for those that sit glued to the tv.

Yes, absolutely you get a better perspective from the stands but you still have to be bright enough to interpret what you see. I’ve been a season ticket holder and heard plenty of rubbish spouted in the stands.

I’ve seen some very perceptive comments on here from season ticket holders, and I’ve seen some dross. Same applies to those made by the armchair viewer.
		
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Bri, sorry mate but like others you’re reading to much in to the posts, nobody (without emoji’s) has insulted anyone’s intelligence, some have twisted what I posted.

You probably know just as many if not more people in the NE who don’t support their local club, no problem it’s their choice, and when there are discussions about Utd, I will take more stock in the  opinion of the 3 ST holders than the gloryhunter who has never been to a match.

It’s not a fact, just my opinion.👍🏻


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## Hobbit (Oct 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Bri, sorry mate but like others you’re reading to much in to the posts, nobody (without emoji’s) has insulted anyone’s intelligence, some have twisted what I posted.

You probably know just as many if not more people in the NE who don’t support their local club, no problem it’s their choice, and when there are discussions about Utd, I will take more stock in the  opinion of the 3 ST holders than the gloryhunter who has never been to a match.

It’s not a fact, just my opinion.👍🏻
		
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I’ve not suggested anyone’s intelligence has been insulted, nor did I quote your post. However, I am saying that armchair viewers can have a valid viewpoint. Yes, they do miss the wider view of what’s happening off the ball but, for example, a 0-5 win isn’t close enough to split hairs over. That + a string of very indifferent displays even an armchair viewer can make an easy judgement.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 26, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			I’ve not suggested anyone’s intelligence has been insulted, nor did I quote your post. However, I am saying that armchair viewers can have a valid viewpoint. Yes, they do miss the wider view of what’s happening off the ball but, for example, a 0-5 win isn’t close enough to split hairs over. That + a string of very indifferent displays even an armchair viewer can make an easy judgement.
		
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The use of the words “thick” and “bright enough” is what I’m talking about and I believe Stu’s post was tongue in cheek looking at who he was responding to and the use of emoji’s.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2021)

This is just a touch weird 😂

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/nypo...-over-video-of-him-biting-daughters-toes/amp/


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Bri, sorry mate but like others you’re reading to much in to the posts, nobody (without emoji’s) has insulted anyone’s intelligence, some have twisted what I posted.

You probably know just as many if not more people in the NE who don’t support their local club, no problem it’s their choice, and when there are discussions about Utd, I will take more stock in the  opinion of the 3 ST holders than the *gloryhunter who has never been to a match*.

It’s not a fact, just my opinion.👍🏻
		
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Your contribution is pointless though, unless you are trying to say all non-season ticket holder fans are glory hunters who have never been to a match. You insult the intelligence of millions of fans in that one statement, and not just United fans. Do you also label Liverpool fans in the same bracket, if they do not hold a season ticket. I'm from Northern Ireland, and I know many Liverpool fans. And, many of them are absolutely passionate about their club. They bleed Liverpool, they watch every game, they look forward to every game. They are ecstatic when they win, and hurt when they lose. They are ripping United fans to pieces as we speak on social media, and fair enough. They'll wear the Liverpool shirt and be proud of it, their kids will become mad Liverpool fans as it will be brainwashed into them. Likewise, I have no doubt you have equally passionate Liverpool fans around the UK, and around the globe. Same as Man Utd. I know several passionate Newcastle fans down here in the East Midlands, and I would never question them as a fan or that they'll lack knowledge compared to these so called "proper fans". 

So, in my opinion, you embarrass yourself by even trying to bring this into the discussion. Hopefully you're simply acting the troll and trying to get some to take the bait. If so, well done, fantastic contribution to the thread. If not, I would sincerely take any of your opinions with a pinch of salt in the future as you seem to lack reasoning skills. Last season, a small minority of Liverpool fans were shockingly calling for Klopps head due to frustrating results. I'm sure a small number might even attend Liverpool matches. However, there was no way I'd ever agree with that opinion, over another Liverpool fan from London who still had belief in Klopp.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 26, 2021)

Not really sure how people that go to football matches are “lucky”.
They bought a ticket & went 🤷‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Oct 26, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Sorry *Stu but you don’t make the rules on who can call for a manager’s head*. You don’t have to be at the game to read a league table and see a string of poor results. There’s good, knowledgeable season ticket holders and there’s thick ones. Same goes for those that sit glued to the tv.

Yes, absolutely you get a better perspective from the stands but you still have to be bright enough to interpret what you see. I’ve been a season ticket holder and heard plenty of rubbish spouted in the stands.

I’ve seen some very perceptive comments on here from season ticket holders, and I’ve seen some dross. Same applies to those made by the armchair viewer.
		
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I never said I do, it's just my opinion.

Usually, those who shout the loudest often get heard and I think with social media the armchair knee Jerkers opinions get taken as the general opinion of the match going fans too.

From those  70k who were in OT on Sunday I'm pretty sure not all  want OGS sacked. They want him to succeed and  to fix their problems. Listening and reading to media/social media every man and his dog wants Him sacked.

I agree I've heard plenty of rubbish spouted by ST holders, but they generally don't call for the managers head in the ground. 

The only time I've heard our fans calling for anyone to be sacked in the ground is when Hodgson was in charge and that was only a minority..... it should've been everyone and sooner🤣


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I never said I do, it's just my opinion.

Usually, those who shout the loudest often get heard and I think with social media the armchair knee Jerkers opinions get taken as the general opinion of the match going fans too.

*From those  70k who were in OT on Sunday I'm pretty sure not all  want OGS sacked. They want him to succeed and  to fix their problems. Listening and reading to media/social media every man and his dog wants Him sacked.*

I agree I've heard plenty of rubbish spouted by ST holders, but they generally don't call for the managers head in the ground.

The only time I've heard our fans calling for anyone to be sacked in the ground is when Hodgson was in charge and that was only a minority..... it should've been everyone and sooner🤣
		
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I don't think anyone has claimed that EVERY fan wants him sacked. Also, every fan that wants him sacked would RATHER he succeed. Utd fans, basically 100% of them absolutely want him to succeed. We have been desperate for it, and he has been in charge for 3 years. It is not as if fans are calling for his head after a month.

However, many many fans also want him to leave. Many will still love him to bits, but want him to go now before things continue to decline further. They want him to go, because like me, see no way he can turn things around. If he stays, and Utd suddenly become world beaters and we dominate football for the next decade, then I will absolutely love it if you come back and say "told you so, should have given him a chance". I will be singing away as I reply that you were right, and I was wrong. Sadly, I just do not see it happening. I don't even see us getting into the Champions League spots, let alone winning leagues.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I never said I do, it's just my opinion.

Usually, those who shout the loudest often get heard and I think with social media the armchair knee Jerkers opinions get taken as the general opinion of the match going fans too.

From those  70k who were in OT on Sunday I'm pretty sure not all  want OGS sacked. They want him to succeed and  to fix their problems. Listening and reading to media/social media every man and his dog wants Him sacked.

I agree I've heard plenty of rubbish spouted by ST holders, but they generally don't call for the managers head in the ground.

The only time I've heard our fans calling for anyone to be sacked in the ground is when Hodgson was in charge and that was only a minority..... it should've been everyone and sooner🤣
		
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You are right in regards the fans that knee jerk quicker mainly appear to be ones that don’t go to the games but I would widen that out to the social media fans who are from far away lands etc - ones that have grown up on the sky/football manager/fifa eras of the game where they think every bad period should result in the manager going 

It’s also a symptom of seeing how some clubs do act like that though - there are some clubs that have gone through manager after manager - even the succesfull ones like Chelsea and they think that’s how each club should work - a change in a manager meaning a change in success , it’s the same with spending 

As for Hodgson - well the ones who backed him - they were mainly the same people who wanted Rafa gone


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Your contribution is pointless though, unless you are trying to say all non-season ticket holder fans are glory hunters who have never been to a match. You insult the intelligence of millions of fans in that one statement, and not just United fans. Do you also label Liverpool fans in the same bracket, if they do not hold a season ticket. I'm from Northern Ireland, and I know many Liverpool fans. And, many of them are absolutely passionate about their club. They bleed Liverpool, they watch every game, they look forward to every game. They are ecstatic when they win, and hurt when they lose. They are ripping United fans to pieces as we speak on social media, and fair enough. They'll wear the Liverpool shirt and be proud of it, their kids will become mad Liverpool fans as it will be brainwashed into them. Likewise, I have no doubt you have equally passionate Liverpool fans around the UK, and around the globe. Same as Man Utd. I know several passionate Newcastle fans down here in the East Midlands, and I would never question them as a fan or that they'll lack knowledge compared to these so called "proper fans".

So, in my opinion, you embarrass yourself by even trying to bring this into the discussion. Hopefully you're simply acting the troll and trying to get some to take the bait. If so, well done, fantastic contribution to the thread. If not, I would sincerely take any of your opinions with a pinch of salt in the future as you seem to lack reasoning skills. Last season, a small minority of Liverpool fans were shockingly calling for Klopps head due to frustrating results. I'm sure a small number might even attend Liverpool matches. However, there was no way I'd ever agree with that opinion, over another Liverpool fan from London who still had belief in Klopp.
		
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Are you really calling me embarrassing and a troll when once again you are completely misinterpreting my posts!!

I know Hobbit, he knows I am talking about the Man Utd fans where I live, the 3 ST Holders plus a few others, ie just them and yes in my opinion a couple of them are gloryhunters, 1 of them even claimed in a discussion the best night of his life was being at the Camp Nou in 1999, until another lad said he was lying as he was sat next to him watching it in a local pub!
Total Gloryhunter!!

I was not labelling everyone else in Ireland, the States, Far East etc who support Utd as gloryhunters!

Seriously, nobody needs to read your short stories when it’s all in your head!


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## Beezerk (Oct 26, 2021)

Piece said:



			All the time. That's how you learn. Only one player has the ball, meaning that 21 players don't have the ball. It is so important what the players without the ball are doing. I coach our kids to try and be in the right place at the right time, whether they are defending or attacking. Personally I learn so much from going to live games, watching the very best in action seeing what they do off the ball. City and Liverpool in their pomp are something to behold live; you just don't "see it" on the TV, despite the endless camera angles and analysis. When City flobbed us 6-0 at The Vic in Sept 2017, I remember coming away from the game thinking that's the best football I've seen live and that's how I want to coach my football.
		
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Yeah, and all season ticket holders are coaches like you 😂😉
I feel sorry for all those fans near the back of the big stands, watching stick men play football and checking the sky sports app to find out who scored 😂


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## fundy (Oct 26, 2021)

I really dont get football managers, especially Arteta!!! No European football and little else to play for in October and he makes 9 changes for a cup games against Leeds, who have rightly picked the strongest possible side available to them

I mean why on earth are you picking Kolasinac!!!!! Tavares has played so little football but needs a rest after one game at the weekend that you pick your 3rd choice (being generous) left back? Likewise Cedric! Why is Lokonga not getting more game time?  Lacazettes hardly been overworked of late but is on the bench again

the one guy they should be wrapping in cotton wool is obviously out there playing tho lol

Deserve to get beat with such utter misplaced arrogance


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## pauljames87 (Oct 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			I really dont get football managers, especially Arteta!!! No European football and little else to play for in October and he makes 9 changes for a cup games against Leeds, who have rightly picked the strongest possible side available to them

I mean why on earth are you picking Kolasinac!!!!! Tavares has played so little football but needs a rest after one game at the weekend that you pick your 3rd choice (being generous) left back? Likewise Cedric! Why is Lokonga not getting more game time?  Lacazettes hardly been overworked of late but is on the bench again

the one guy they should be wrapping in cotton wool is obviously out there playing tho lol

Deserve to get beat with such utter misplaced arrogance
		
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I get you need to keep people happy but the League cup is so underated. If he won that at least he could be like I've proven I can win, and doesn't the winner get Europa? I get bigger clubs don't rate the lower comps but for example if I was spurs I'd be going all in to win that conference. Then it would end the "trophyless" run .. get the fans some joy


Unless your going for the title surely the cups are something to aim for


I mean unless he is so blinkered and thinks he has a chance of top 4


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## IanM (Oct 26, 2021)

I’m watching the England Ladies play 1st Riga Girl Guides.  

Bit of a mismatch.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Let's be absolutely honest here, who the heck watches what's going on off the ball at a football match? Most people have their eyes glued to the ball and maybe sometimes glimpse away if something catches their eye, otherwise it's following play and not seeing if player x has dropped deep to sweep or player y has dropped the nut on someone 😆
		
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Think the ref wasn’t watching properly Sunday he missed three red card fouls.
VAR put him right on one though.


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## Slime (Oct 26, 2021)

IanM said:



			I’m watching the England Ladies play 1st Riga Girl Guides. 

Bit of a mismatch.
		
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Latvia, so far, have done well to get nil!
This'll almost definitely end up with double figures for England, maybe even a nice dozen.


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## fundy (Oct 26, 2021)

Well its a win, think thats about all you can say about that


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## 4LEX (Oct 26, 2021)

Anyone else sick and tired of Gary Neville? He was a breath of fresh air when he first appeared but Jamie Carragher now dwarfs him on every aspect of being a pundit. Not to mention Roy Keane and Michah Richards.

He can't give a straight answer as he's trying to cover his pals back. He looks lifeless, tired and washed up. He advocates giving managers time yet sacks more Salford managers than Paul Scholes sucks toes. He's made some very dodgy comments alluding to the vaccine being unsafe on his Sky Sports podcast and is constantly looking for political angles to get cheap shots in at Boris Johnson. I think he should be removed right away if it wasn't for the fact it's brilliant seeing his demise week by week. He's been exposed as a total fraud in management (his tenre at Valencia and joke role as Hodgsons assistant at England) and literally everything single thing he's said about Ole has been wrong. Sky are trying to promote equality yet he's in business with someone who is on trial for slapping women around


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 26, 2021)

4LEX said:



*Anyone else sick and tired of Gary Neville? He was a breath of fresh air when he first appeared but Jamie Carragher now dwarfs him on every aspect of being a pundit. *Not to mention Roy Keane and Michah Richards.

He can't give a straight answer as he's trying to cover his pals back. He looks lifeless, tired and washed up. He advocates giving managers time yet sacks more Salford managers than Paul Scholes sucks toes. He's made some very dodgy comments alluding to the vaccine being unsafe on his Sky Sports podcast and is constantly looking for political angles to get cheap shots in at Boris Johnson. I think he should be removed right away if it wasn't for the fact it's brilliant seeing his demise week by week. He's been exposed as a total fraud in management (his tenre at Valencia and joke role as Hodgsons assistant at England) and literally everything single thing he's said about Ole has been wrong. Sky are trying to promote equality yet he's in business with someone who is on trial for slapping women around 

Click to expand...

Spot on, especially when he went into Comrade Neville mode over the ESL.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



*Let's be absolutely honest here, who the heck watches what's going on off the ball at a football match?* Most people have their eyes glued to the ball and maybe sometimes glimpse away if something catches their eye, otherwise it's following play and not seeing if player x has dropped deep to sweep or player y has dropped the nut on someone 😆
		
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I've done it occasionally to see what a sprecific player does; 45 minutes watching Gianluca Vialli was an absolute master class in forward play.  But generally yes, most people will be following the action, me included.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 26, 2021)

After tonight's game a plea for the watch to be taken away from the referee and given to a timekeeper; ball in play, clock starts; ball out of play clock stops; 35 minutes each way.  Punters are being short changed.

It is a pointless exercise tapping your watch all the second half then only adding 4 minutes and booking the first player for time wasting in injury time.  Yes Mr. Friend, I'm talking to you.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 27, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I've done it occasionally to see what a sprecific player does; 45 minutes watching Gianluca Vialli was an absolute master class in forward play.  But generally yes, most people will be following the action, me included.
		
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I'd try and do it with the Kante triplets, but I think I could only do it for 10 minutes - the man is a machine. One of my favourite ever prem players.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 27, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd try and do it with the Kante triplets, but I think I could only do it for 10 minutes - the man is a machine. One of my favourite ever prem players.
		
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71% of the Earth is covered by water; the rest is covered by N'Golo Kante.


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## Hobbit (Oct 27, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd try and do it with the Kante triplets, but I think I could only do it for 10 minutes - the man is a machine. One of my favourite ever prem players.
		
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Another player who does it, probably too much, is Harry Kane. He gets a lot of grief for it, people expecting him to circle the penalty spot. But if they watched where he ‘drags’ the defenders with him and the gaps he creates by doing so they’d realise just how good he is in open play without the ball. His goals for himself might be down but the opportunities he creates and the goals for the rest of the team suggest something good is happening.

Another thing worth watching is strikers at corners picking who they want to be marked by. A good defender will recognise what’s going on but a good striker will go and stand next to the smallest defender. Even if doubled up on, the small guy can be used as a shield between the striker and the big defender.

Watching off the ball action, harder when you’re not there, is very revealing.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 27, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Anyone else sick and tired of Gary Neville? He was a breath of fresh air when he first appeared but Jamie Carragher now dwarfs him on every aspect of being a pundit. Not to mention Roy Keane and Michah Richards.

He can't give a straight answer as he's trying to cover his pals back. He looks lifeless, tired and washed up. He advocates giving managers time yet sacks more Salford managers than Paul Scholes sucks toes. He's made some very dodgy comments alluding to the vaccine being unsafe on his Sky Sports podcast and is constantly looking for political angles to get cheap shots in at Boris Johnson. I think he should be removed right away if it wasn't for the fact it's brilliant seeing his demise week by week. He's been exposed as a total fraud in management (his tenre at Valencia and joke role as Hodgsons assistant at England) and literally everything single thing he's said about Ole has been wrong. Sky are trying to promote equality yet he's in business with someone who is on trial for slapping women around 

Click to expand...

Personally, I still really like him. I pretty much avoid twitter, so pretty much avoid his political tweets. He's entitled to his opinion, can agree or not agree, but I distance myself from it as much as I can.

Yes, he has not asked for Oles head, and keeps talking about the need to support managers. However, he was also clear he is under massive pressure and was also very clear where he thought we are tactically wrong, and that is the coaching staffs fault. However, if he doesn't want to ask for a mate to get sacked, I respect that. However, even more so, I don't think he has ever asked for any Utd or other manager to be sacked? If that is the case, surely he is being consistent. We know he will never ask for that, that is the board decision. I also respect Carragher voicing his belief that Ole is not good enough and should go. That is his opinion (which I agree with), and he chooses to express that. No problem at all. However, when they know Neville will not openly express the same opinion, I think it gets out of order that they press and press and press it on him, basically to make him look stupid as he refuses to openly agree with them. Was like watching school kids in a playground. Would also be interesting if Gerrard becomes the future Liverpool manager, and after 2 or 3 years Liverpool go downhill. Will Carragher confidently tell us all at home that Gerrard is not good enough and needs to go? I think he'd think twice about it, are be very cagey at least. That would be more hypocritical, as he is happy to call out other managers.

Favourite pundits: Neville, Carragher (yes, still like him as a pundit), Keane, Scholes, Richards (only when Keane is on)
Least favourite: Sutton, Souness, Hargreaves, Jenas, J Redknapp


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## Billysboots (Oct 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Personally, I still really like him. I pretty much avoid twitter, so pretty much avoid his political tweets. He's entitled to his opinion, can agree or not agree, but I distance myself from it as much as I can.

Yes, he has not asked for Oles head, and keeps talking about the need to support managers. However, he was also clear he is under massive pressure and was also very clear where he thought we are tactically wrong, and that is the coaching staffs fault. However, if he doesn't want to ask for a mate to get sacked, I respect that. However, even more so, I don't think he has ever asked for any Utd or other manager to be sacked? If that is the case, surely he is being consistent. We know he will never ask for that, that is the board decision. I also respect Carragher voicing his belief that Ole is not good enough and should go. That is his opinion (which I agree with), and he chooses to express that. No problem at all. *However, when they know Neville will not openly express the same opinion, I think it gets out of order that they press and press and press it on him, basically to make him look stupid as he refuses to openly agree with them. Was like watching school kids in a playground.* Would also be interesting if Gerrard becomes the future Liverpool manager, and after 2 or 3 years Liverpool go downhill. Will Carragher confidently tell us all at home that Gerrard is not good enough and needs to go? I think he'd think twice about it, are be very cagey at least. That would be more hypocritical, as he is happy to call out other managers.

Favourite pundits: Neville, Carragher (yes, still like him as a pundit), Keane, Scholes, Richards (only when Keane is on)
Least favourite: Sutton, Souness, Hargreaves, Jenas, J Redknapp
		
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It was at that point I turned off. School kids in a playground was exactly what it was like, with prefect Graeme Souness leading the way. I cannot abide the man. Neville was never going to win the debate with that pair sat on the other side of the studio.


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## Piece (Oct 27, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Anyone else sick and tired of Gary Neville? He was a breath of fresh air when he first appeared but Jamie Carragher now dwarfs him on every aspect of being a pundit. Not to mention Roy Keane and Michah Richards.

He can't give a straight answer as he's trying to cover his pals back. He looks lifeless, tired and washed up. He advocates giving managers time yet sacks more Salford managers than Paul Scholes sucks toes. He's made some very dodgy comments alluding to the vaccine being unsafe on his Sky Sports podcast and is constantly looking for political angles to get cheap shots in at Boris Johnson. I think he should be removed right away if it wasn't for the fact it's brilliant seeing his demise week by week. He's been exposed as a total fraud in management (his tenre at Valencia and joke role as Hodgsons assistant at England) and literally everything single thing he's said about Ole has been wrong. Sky are trying to promote equality yet he's in business with someone who is on trial for slapping women around 

Click to expand...

I can see why you and others now think like this. I was a big fan of GN but recently I'm a bit more . As you say he has branched into political statements and stances, popping up on GMB occasionally to peddle his thoughts on pension credit, etc. He fumbled around a bit on Sun trying to indirectly back-up Ole whilst not backing him up. He needs to wind his neck in and stick to football punditry and I would say try and limit his Man U bias, but when you are faced with Souness, Redknapp and Carragher, it's very difficult not too!!


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## Piece (Oct 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Favourite pundits: Neville, Carragher (yes, still like him as a pundit), Keane, Scholes, Richards (only when Keane is on)
Least favourite: *Sutton*, Souness, Hargreaves, Jenas, J Redknapp
		
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I need a category lower than "least favourite" for shock-jock Sutton.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 27, 2021)

Piece said:



			I need a category lower than "least favourite" for shock-jock Sutton.
		
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Haha, I know. In my system, the best way I could highlight my dislike of him was to type him 1st on the list. However, I should probably add Stan Collymore to the list, and he equally gets on my nerves. But, to be honest, I can't remember him being a mainstream pundit on any channels in a while, so maybe he has been relegated to internet streaming channels like youTube?


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## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2021)

I know Sky are trying to cater to the 'banter era' by having Carragher and Neville going at each other on the Liverpool United games - but maybe it would be better to have impartial commentators and pundits for every game. Not much point having Neville, Keane etc on for a United game if they're not going to criticise the manager because they played with him for a decade. Same with Carragher on Liverpool games, he's only going to wax lyrical about how great they are. I was fuming in last year's Spurs Arsenal game, when Lamela scored the outrageous goal, and eight-year Gooner on commentary Alan Smith couldn't have undersold it more if he tried. Why have biased pundits when they have enough to choose from?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 27, 2021)

Piece said:



			I can see why you and others now think like this. I was a big fan of GN but recently I'm a bit more . As you say he has branched into political statements and stances, popping up on GMB occasionally to peddle his thoughts on pension credit, etc. He fumbled around a bit on Sun trying to indirectly back-up Ole whilst not backing him up. He needs to wind his neck in and stick to football punditry and I would say try and limit his Man U bias, but when you are faced with Souness, Redknapp and Carragher, it's very difficult not too!!
		
Click to expand...

I think this sums up my feelings as well, although Neville claims he didn’t get involved in politics until politicians started getting involved in football.

I never heard as much praise as you hear criticism for Neville when he was amongst the first (Abramovic was the other) to open their Hotels to NHS Staff for free when the Covid crisis started, Rashford was harrassed and the media searched for any dirt they could when he got involved with feeding kids.

Sometimes it takes someone with a high profile to get involved to bring these things to the media’s attention.

Still see him and Carragher as the best 2 pundits.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 27, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I know Sky are trying to cater to the 'banter era' by having Carragher and Neville going at each other on the Liverpool United games - but maybe it would be better to have impartial commentators and pundits for every game. Not much point having Neville, Keane etc on for a United game if they're not going to criticise the manager because they played with him for a decade. Same with Carragher on Liverpool games, he's only going to wax lyrical about how great they are. I was fuming in last year's Spurs Arsenal game, when Lamela scored the outrageous goal, and eight-year Gooner on commentary Alan Smith couldn't have undersold it more if he tried. Why have biased pundits when they have enough to choose from?
		
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I don't mind ex-players being pundits on matches they were an ex-player. OK, they may have certain barriers if it involves them talking about a "mate". However, they are passionate about their clubs. So, if they are playing well they are likely to passionately discuss that. If they are playing badly, they are likely to be passionate about criticising. I'd rather have Neville, Keane, Souness and Carragher as pundits for Liverpool - United than Shearer, Wright, Defoe and Richards. Not that they have nothing to offer, it is just they have little / no emotional attachments to the clubs. To be fair, regardless of the match, you often see the TV broadcaster tries to get ex-players in for the teams that they are showing.

I think I'm a little more in agreement with co-commentators. Personally I want them to objectively show enthusiasm to the live action and then leave the emotional attachment to the clubs to the pundits afterwards. If Utd scored a screamer and Neville was co commentator, of course he will become ecstatic. If Liverpool scored, he is hardly going to go crazy, but rightly act disappointed.


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## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't mind ex-players being pundits on matches they were an ex-player. OK, they may have certain barriers if it involves them talking about a "mate". However, they are passionate about their clubs. So, if they are playing well they are likely to passionately discuss that. If they are playing badly, they are likely to be passionate about criticising. I'd rather have Neville, Keane, Souness and Carragher as pundits for Liverpool - United than Shearer, Wright, Defoe and Richards. Not that they have nothing to offer, it is just they have little / no emotional attachments to the clubs. To be fair, regardless of the match, you often see the TV broadcaster tries to get ex-players in for the teams that they are showing.

I think I'm a little more in agreement with co-commentators. Personally I want them to objectively show enthusiasm to the live action and then leave the emotional attachment to the clubs to the pundits afterwards. If Utd scored a screamer and Neville was co commentator, of course he will become ecstatic. If Liverpool scored, he is hardly going to go crazy, but rightly act disappointed.
		
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Yeah, I guess in the studio it's fine if you have one for each team and a third who is neutral for balance. But if there is one co-commentator then he should certainly be neutral. 

I know lately they have gone for Neville AND Carragher as co-commentators for Liverpool United games - but it reminds me of the old 'fanzone' commentary they used to have over a decade ago!


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## fundy (Oct 27, 2021)

Must just be me that barely watched a minute of these pundits, maybe because the ex-footballers from my club are amongst the worst lol

A friend was moaning to me about how the pundits reaction to his sides win and how it had been portrayed at the weekend had taken the gloss off the result for him. Makes zero sense to me


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 27, 2021)

The next step for VAR?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453289072265465859


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## Beezerk (Oct 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The next step for VAR?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453289072265465859

Click to expand...

I'm all for it, love a bit of tech used in this way 👌


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## pauljames87 (Oct 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The next step for VAR?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453289072265465859

Click to expand...

Good, tech is normally black or white no grey

Hawkeye went wrong once so far in all these games, it would be good to see var for goals go the same way


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## Stuart_C (Oct 27, 2021)

Re pundits.

There's similarities between Neville and those pundits before him re Manchester united managers.

They (the media and pundits) were too scared to say anything negative towards Ferguson. Once he left they all went after Moyes,LVG and JM. OGS is being protected by the same people/outlets.... 

It's akin to the lack of penalties given against them  under Ferguson in comparison to those under Moyes,LVG and JM. They conceded more in 1 game than yernited did in 20yrs under Ferguson.😄


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## Stuart_C (Oct 27, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The next step for VAR?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453289072265465859

Click to expand...

I hope not.

I think offside should only be measured by the feet of the player as you can't gain advantage without moving your feet. 

The adage of being offside by any part of your body you can score with is useless.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Must just be me that barely watched a minute of these pundits, maybe because the ex-footballers from my club are amongst the worst lol

A friend was moaning to me about how the pundits reaction to his sides win and how it had been portrayed at the weekend had taken the gloss off the result for him. Makes zero sense to me
		
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i don’t understand how a pundit changes how someone views a result 🤷‍♂️ as you say makes zero sense 

Sometimes I’ll watch them - actually enjoy when Richards and Keane are on 



Stuart_C said:



			Re pundits.

There's similarities between Neville and those pundits before him re Manchester united managers.

They (the media and pundits) were too scared to say anything negative towards Ferguson. Once he left they all went after Moyes,LVG and JM. OGS is being protected by the same people/outlets....

It's akin to the lack of penalties given against them  under Ferguson in comparison to those under Moyes,LVG and JM. They conceded more in 1 game than yernited did in 20yrs under Ferguson.😄
		
Click to expand...

Phil Neville was the latest to come out and support OGS , in fairness I can understand why they won’t demand a manager to be sacked or leave etc - they aren’t there to give that but you would hope that they would give a fair outlook on how things are going - and Neville bottled saying that OGS is not good enough to manage the club , I think Keane would have no issues saying it. Souness in the past stated it about Rodgers etc


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## Swango1980 (Oct 27, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Re pundits.

There's similarities between Neville and those pundits before him re Manchester united managers.

They (the media and pundits) were *too scared to say anything negative towards Ferguson*. Once he left they all went after Moyes,LVG and JM. OGS is being protected by the same people/outlets....

It's akin to the lack of penalties given against them  under Ferguson in comparison to those under Moyes,LVG and JM. They conceded more in 1 game than yernited did in 20yrs under Ferguson.😄
		
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It would have taken a brave pundit to criticise Sir Alex, regardless of what club they played for. If they did, they'd have probably been mocked by more fans than supported. Just in the same way I don't expect any pundits to come out and be negative towards Klopp or Pepe, especially the longer they stay and are successful.

I don't remember the details of every word the pundits said whilst Moyes, LVG and JM were in charge, but I do not remember the pundits like Neville and Keane going after these managers. In fact, I seem to remember being more supportive and hopeful than anyone else, as they are now with Ole. It was the media and large sections of fans that "went after" these managers, and again the same is happening with Ole. Yes, Ole has been given more time than the others, but there are loads of reasons for that. He is an ex-United playing legend, so the fans have a lot of admiration for him already. He is a nice guy as well, whereas LVG and JM are pantomime villains, so they are always going to be at high risk as being portrayed negatively in media, and that spills over into the fans quickly. There was also a feeling of building something under Ole, rather than random buying of players before his arrival, so naturally there was a general feeling of giving him time to do that. Sadly, it now seems his time is quickly running out, and nothing like one of United's worst defeats of all time, on the back of many awful performances, to highlight the stark reality of where Utd are right now.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 27, 2021)

When GN and JC are doing the analysis of the game they are both very knowledgable,get them in the studio with other Ex Liverpool and Utd players it’s just nonsense and point scoring.
Still rather listen to them than some others.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 27, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			When GN and JC are doing the analysis of the game they are both very knowledgable,get them in the studio with other Ex Liverpool and Utd players it’s just nonsense and point scoring.
Still rather listen to them than some others.
		
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To be fair, Jermaine Defoe just sat there like a mute, whilst the other 3 went at it. Felt quite awkward for him. Had they brought Lewis Hamilton in instead of a Defoe, I doubt it would have made any difference to the show. I suspect Defoe was dragged in last minute as Keane had personal issues, who knows.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



*i don’t understand how a pundit changes how someone views a result *🤷‍♂️ as you say makes zero sense

Sometimes I’ll watch them - actually enjoy when Richards and Keane are on



Phil Neville was the latest to come out and support OGS , in fairness I can understand why they won’t demand a manager to be sacked or leave etc - they aren’t there to give that but you would hope that they would give a fair outlook on how things are going - and Neville bottled saying that OGS is not good enough to manage the club , I think Keane would have no issues saying it. Souness in the past stated it about Rodgers etc
		
Click to expand...

Some armchair specialists need to hear what they say to form their opinion. They can't form their own opinion without it.

Over the years we had to put up with the narrative of zonal marking doesn't work because Keys and Gray said so. The media used to go to town on Rafa for being stubborn etc.

I remember the night when Gordon Strachan was in the sky studio as a pundit on a CL night (he often was at the time)  and he staunchly defended Zonal marking and educated the dinosaurs of the "only man marking  rules" crowd. Strachan was never seen on those shows after.

Andy gray's last word show was hilarious.

I rarely watch the pundits, there was no way I was missing Sunday though 😄😄


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			To be fair, *Jermaine Defoe just sat there like a mute*, whilst the other 3 went at it. Felt quite awkward for him. Had they brought Lewis Hamilton in instead of a Defoe, I doubt it would have made any difference to the show. I suspect Defoe was dragged in last minute as Keane had personal issues, who knows.
		
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To be fair, Neville & Carragher like the sound of their own voices that much he struggled to get a word in edgeways.


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## garyinderry (Oct 27, 2021)

No one does punditry like RTE. Here is a clip of the absolute gold we have got to enjoy down the years.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 27, 2021)

garyinderry said:



			No one does punditry like RTE. Here is a clip of the absolute gold we have got to enjoy down the years.







Click to expand...




garyinderry said:



			No one does punditry like RTE. Here is a clip of the absolute gold we have got to enjoy down the years.







Click to expand...

Irish banter?


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 27, 2021)

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer walks into a Bank to cash a cheque. As he approaches the cashier he says, "Good morning, Ms could you please cash this cheque for me?"

Cashier:"It would be my pleasure. Could you please show me your ID?"

Solskjaer:"Truthfully, I did not bring my ID with me as I didn't think there was any need to. I am Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, Manager of Manchester United”.

Cashier: "Yes, I know who you are, but with all the regulations and monitoring of the banks because of impostors and forgers and requirements of the legislation, etc., I must insist on seeing ID."

Solskjaer: Just ask anyone here at the bank who I am and they will tell you. Everybody knows who I am."

Cashier: "I am sorry, Mr Solskjaer but these are the bank rules and I must follow them."

Solskjaer,"Come on please, I am urging you, please cash this cheque."

Cashier: "Look sir, here is an example of what we can do. One day, Tiger Woods came into the bank without ID. To prove he was Tiger Woods he pulled out his putter and made a beautiful shot across the bank into a cup. With that shot we knew him to be Tiger Woods and cashed his cheque."

"Another time, Andre Agassi came in without ID. He pulled out his tennis racket and made a fabulous shot where the tennis ball landed in my cup. With that shot we cashed his cheque. So, sir, what can you do to prove that it is you and only you?"

Solskjaer stands there thinking and thinking and finally says, "Honestly, my mind is a total blank...there is nothing that comes to my mind. I can't think of a single thing. I have absolutely no idea what to do. I don't have a clue."

Cashier: "Will that be large or small notes , Mr Solskjaer?”


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## garyinderry (Oct 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Irish banter?
		
Click to expand...

These boys were not joking. They say exactly what they feel and routinely fall out with each other.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 27, 2021)

garyinderry said:



			These boys were not joking. They say exactly what they feel and routinely fall out with each other.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully they've had Naill Quinn on as a guest


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## pauljames87 (Oct 27, 2021)

Thought we would go out to city..

Looks like we played for pens? I came to bed when it went pens hadn't seen any more of the game but watched the pens on a stream

Foden my word hit the target. Don't miss the first pen for your team 

We didn't miss any no way back from that 

City won't be going for the League cup this year

No doubt we will go out to some rubbish side next after knocking out both Manchester clubs


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## DanFST (Oct 27, 2021)

City out, good result, I guess. 

Worried about playing too much football.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 27, 2021)

DanFST said:



			City out, good result, I guess.

Worried about playing too much football.
		
Click to expand...

It's ok we won't be worried about the title so we can focus on the cups 😜


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2021)

That certainly wasn’t a second string team that City put out as well 

Draw on Saturday going to be interesting 

Solid performance from some of our youngsters and a cracking finish from Origi


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 27, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Another player who does it, probably too much, is Harry Kane. He gets a lot of grief for it, people expecting him to circle the penalty spot. But if they watched where he ‘drags’ the defenders with him and the gaps he creates by doing so they’d realise just how good he is in open play without the ball. His goals for himself might be down but the opportunities he creates and the goals for the rest of the team suggest something good is happening.

Another thing worth watching is strikers at corners picking who they want to be marked by. A good defender will recognise what’s going on but a good striker will go and stand next to the smallest defender. Even if doubled up on, the small guy can be used as a shield between the striker and the big defender.

Watching off the ball action, harder when you’re not there, is very revealing.
		
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I know where your coming from, but since Harry has been wandering into midfield Spurs as a whole don't seem to be performing as well, results wise. However, he is a cracking footballer, not just a great finisher.

I've always loved watching the likes of Ronnie Whelan, Nigel Spackman, Didi Hamman, Fabinho in a red shirt, other greats at the same job are Peter Reid, Keane, Viera, Gilberto, Kante. Players who can read the game, break it up and find the same colour shirt again.

Zonal marking - Andy Gray - and the excuse was "if someone loses their man at least you have someone to blame in the dressing room" - sheesh.

Surely you pick the best system for your team, or what the stats back up, whether zonal, part-zonal, man for man etc.

If Rafa's Liverpool let a goal in from a zonal system he would go to town on it. If another team left a man with a free header at a corner, he'd not highlight it. It supplied a narrative for years for divvies who can't think for themselves.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 27, 2021)

DanFST said:



			City out, good result, I guess.

Worried about playing too much football.
		
Click to expand...

Think of the positives

More games is more chance for youth players to shine. Kane got so many games for the spuds in Europa for years to work on his game before he got first team .. once we through could put Chester's out for example 

Our second string defence still to conceed a goal .. can only breath confidence for diop and Dawson .. imagine diop kicking on and becoming zoumas long term pairing 

And we didn't need Antonio in either of the last 2 mid week games to progress so could rest him


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			To be fair, Jermaine Defoe just sat there like a mute, whilst the other 3 went at it. Felt quite awkward for him. Had they brought Lewis Hamilton in instead of a Defoe, I doubt it would have made any difference to the show. I suspect Defoe was dragged in last minute as Keane had personal issues, who knows.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Yes it can sometimes be a bit annoying if you feel that pundits are being too biased towards their own teams, but on the flip side when things are going wrong the passion can be a good thing to see.

I'd have paid double on my sky for this month for Keane to have been there on Sunday, would have been immense.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 27, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Some armchair specialists need to hear what they say to form their opinion. They can't form their own opinion without it.

Over the years we had to put up with the narrative of zonal marking doesn't work because Keys and Gray said so. The media used to go to town on Rafa for being stubborn etc.

I remember the night when Gordon Strachan was in the sky studio as a pundit on a CL night (he often was at the time)  and he staunchly defended Zonal marking and educated the dinosaurs of the "only man marking  rules" crowd. Strachan was never seen on those shows after.

Andy gray's last word show was hilarious.

I rarely watch the pundits, there was no way I was missing Sunday though 😄😄
		
Click to expand...

Exactly, we've all got a workmate that just repeats what Neville / carragher / their paper says, then when you challenge them on that opinion they fold instead of sticking to their guns and arguing their point.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 27, 2021)

If we lived in some strange universe in which fans could resurrect 3 of their ex Premiership retired players to join their current team, in their prime, who would it be? (Yeah, been bored tonight as my interest in EFL Cup disappeared when we got knocked out)

As a Utd fan, my choices surprised even me, and no doubt I'd change my mind hourly.

1. Roy Keane: This was actually the easiest decision I've ever made in my life. No explanation required.
2. Jaap Stam: Ok, got Maguire and Varane, but need an absolute rock at the back. A leader along with Keano in front. 
3. Gary Neville: Holy cow, I am mental. However, good football brain, hard worker, vocal and Mr Reliable. Much stronger than Wan Bissaka 

My favourite player of all time is Scholes, and I'd have him ahead of Bruno. But, given we have Bruno, felt it would be a wasted choice. Could have picked from a plethora of attacking players,  but again felt it was the wrong area to strengthen. I guess Schmeichel instead of Neville would be an option, just to get another massive leader in the team, tho him and Keano might come to blows (after they both deal with Pogba first) 

Pretty sure I can guess who the Number 1's would be for Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton and Newcastle fans.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 27, 2021)

Koeman sacked by Barca.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If we lived in some strange universe in which fans could resurrect 3 of their ex Premiership retired players to join their current team, in their prime, who would it be?
		
Click to expand...

I'll take a swipe at this. Assuming our "best 11" is: Allison; Trent, Matip, Virgil, Robbo; Hendo, Fab, Thiago*; Salah, Bobby, Mane. *this 3rd MF slot is clearly up for grabs really, but for me, it's Thiago.

Stevie. Easy. That 3rd, most attacking midfielder. And to be honest I could just stop there and not bother with anyone else.
Suarez. Footballing genius. Indefensible madman. But sublime. 
Hyypia. Perfect partner to Virgil and they'd be almost impenetrable.
Special mentions to Finnan, Arbeloa, Xabi Alonso and Torres.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If we lived in some strange universe in which fans could resurrect 3 of their ex Premiership retired players to join their current team, in their prime, who would it be? (Yeah, been bored tonight as my interest in EFL Cup disappeared when we got knocked out)

As a Utd fan, my choices surprised even me, and no doubt I'd change my mind hourly.

1. Roy Keane: This was actually the easiest decision I've ever made in my life. No explanation required.
2. Jaap Stam: Ok, got Maguire and Varane, but need an absolute rock at the back. A leader along with Keano in front.
3. Gary Neville: Holy cow, I am mental. However, good football brain, hard worker, vocal and Mr Reliable. Much stronger than Wan Bissaka

My favourite player of all time is Scholes, and I'd have him ahead of Bruno. But, given we have Bruno, felt it would be a wasted choice. Could have picked from a plethora of attacking players,  but again felt it was the wrong area to strengthen. I guess Schmeichel instead of Neville would be an option, just to get another massive leader in the team, tho him and Keano might come to blows (after they both deal with Pogba first)

Pretty sure I can guess who the Number 1's would be for Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton and Newcastle fans.
		
Click to expand...

OO, can I have 5?

1. Stevie as the RH midfielder in a 3, imagine him setting up our forwards and still running the game. The season he played down the right, I think he got 27 goals.
2. Suarez - Him, mane and Mo, we'd get 150 goals in a season.
3. Souness / Hansen / Barnes - Souness could do the fabinho role with aplomb, run the game and score 8-10 goals as well. Hansen alongside VVD, they could pass it around all day and bring it out into the midfield. Barnes in for Mane as barnesy for 1988-90 on the wing was a thing of beauty, for goals and assists.

The first 2 are nailed on, the others would be the hard one to separate.

For your 3, would agree with the first two, after that would be between Robbo, Van nistelroy and Robin Van Persie. Djemba Djemba if 4 picks.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			OO, can I have 5?

1. Stevie as the RH midfielder in a 3, imagine him setting up our forwards and still running the game. The season he played down the right, I think he got 27 goals.
2. Suarez - Him, mane and Mo, we'd get 150 goals in a season.
3. Souness / Hansen / Barnes - Souness could do the fabinho role with aplomb, run the game and score 8-10 goals as well. Hansen alongside VVD, they could pass it around all day and bring it out into the midfield. Barnes in for Mane as barnesy for 1988-90 on the wing was a thing of beauty, for goals and assists.

The first 2 are nailed on, the others would be the hard one to separate.

For your 3, would agree with the first two, after that would be between Robbo, Van nistelroy and Robin Van Persie. Djemba Djemba if 4 picks. 

Click to expand...

Or Bebe .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2021)

I wonder if Jermain Defoe, the ex West Ham and Spurs player (amongst others) was on the panel on sunday due to there being another game being shown live earlier that day.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 28, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I wonder if Jermain Defoe, the ex West Ham and Spurs player (amongst others) was on the panel on sunday due to there being another game being shown live earlier that day.

Click to expand...

Didn't think their was another game Sunday? I mean even in the build up it was united Liverpool 🤣had another 3 hours until kick off


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 28, 2021)

The Everton 3, apologies to older fans but I never saw the 60's team and I'm not going to choose based on reputation, no matter how well earned. Thank you Kendall, Ball and Harvey but not this time.

1. Neville Southall, one of the finest keepers ever to grace the top league in this country. 
2. Paul Bracewell. Criminally ignored by England for much of his career, he was central to the great team of the 80's and alongside Peter Reid they created a heck of a central midfield. I could have gone for either but Bracewell just pinches it.
3. Kevin Ratcliffe. Captain and centre half, he held the team together, cracking all round player.

Apologies to Trevor Steven if you are reading this, you would be next up.


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## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If we lived in some strange universe in which fans could resurrect 3 of their ex Premiership retired players to join their current team, in their prime, who would it be? (Yeah, been bored tonight as my interest in EFL Cup disappeared when we got knocked out)

As a Utd fan, my choices surprised even me, and no doubt I'd change my mind hourly.

1. Roy Keane: This was actually the easiest decision I've ever made in my life. No explanation required.
2. Jaap Stam: Ok, got Maguire and Varane, but need an absolute rock at the back. A leader along with Keano in front.
3. Gary Neville: Holy cow, I am mental. However, good football brain, hard worker, vocal and Mr Reliable. Much stronger than Wan Bissaka

My favourite player of all time is Scholes, and I'd have him ahead of Bruno. But, given we have Bruno, felt it would be a wasted choice. Could have picked from a plethora of attacking players,  but again felt it was the wrong area to strengthen. I guess Schmeichel instead of Neville would be an option, just to get another massive leader in the team, tho him and Keano might come to blows (after they both deal with Pogba first)

Pretty sure I can guess who the Number 1's would be for Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton and Newcastle fans.
		
Click to expand...

1. Ledley King - assuming he's fit in this scenario! Just an unbelievable defender. He could read the game like a Jedi, always in the right place before anything happened. Lord knows we could use a top centre back like him now.
2. Prime Bale - first time we had him. Bit of a no-brainer, he was absolutely unstoppable in the last two seasons with us. Even last season he bagged so many goals considering he didn't get as many minutes as we would have liked.
3. Mousa Dembele - completely irreplaceable. One of the most unique footballers I've ever seen, and maybe my all time favourite player. I've never seen someone so strong and dominant in a midfield battle but also so outrageously good at dribbling. You just don't get players like him, he was like two players rolled into one. One of the best midfielders ever to grace the Premier League.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If we lived in some strange universe in which fans could resurrect 3 of their ex Premiership retired players to join their current team, in their prime, who would it be? (Yeah, been bored tonight as my interest in EFL Cup disappeared when we got knocked out)

As a Utd fan, my choices surprised even me, and no doubt I'd change my mind hourly.

1. Roy Keane: This was actually the easiest decision I've ever made in my life. No explanation required.
2. Jaap Stam: Ok, got Maguire and Varane, but need an absolute rock at the back. A leader along with Keano in front.
3. Gary Neville: Holy cow, I am mental. However, good football brain, hard worker, vocal and Mr Reliable. Much stronger than Wan Bissaka

My favourite player of all time is Scholes, and I'd have him ahead of Bruno. But, given we have Bruno, felt it would be a wasted choice. Could have picked from a plethora of attacking players,  but again felt it was the wrong area to strengthen. I guess Schmeichel instead of Neville would be an option, just to get another massive leader in the team, tho him and Keano might come to blows (after they both deal with Pogba first)

Pretty sure I can guess who the Number 1's would be for Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton and Newcastle fans.
		
Click to expand...

Rio Ferdinand 

Scott Parker 

J Cole (before his injuries)

I think they would fit the Moyes way for one and I only went from players of my era 

Parker always gave 100% .. him and rice would be unstoppable

Cole before his injuries would fit anywhere accross a front 3 just like Antonio , Bowen etc 

Ferdinand would slot in lovely with zouma


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The Everton 3, apologies to older fans but I never saw the 60's team and I'm not going to choose based on reputation, no matter how well earned. Thank you Kendall, Ball and Harvey but not this time.

1. Neville Southall, one of the finest keepers ever to grace the top league in this country.
2. Paul Bracewell. Criminally ignored by England for much of his career, he was central to the great team of the 80's and alongside Peter Reid they created a heck of a central midfield. I could have gone for either but Bracewell just pinches it.
3. Kevin Ratcliffe. Captain and centre half, he held the team together, cracking all round player.

Apologies to Trevor Steven if you are reading this, you would be next up.
		
Click to expand...

I’d join you at No1 with Big Nev, has to of been one of the World’s greatest at his peak, unbelievable keeper.

No2. Gazza, Wasn’t with us very long but what a footballer.

No3. Samuel Eto’o, another who didn’t stay long, but to have had him in his prime would of been something special.

Other mentions, Lineker, Ginola and Duncan McKenzie,


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The Everton 3, apologies to older fans but I never saw the 60's team and I'm not going to choose based on reputation, no matter how well earned. Thank you Kendall, Ball and Harvey but not this time.

1. Neville Southall, one of the finest keepers ever to grace the top league in this country.
2. Paul Bracewell. Criminally ignored by England for much of his career, he was central to the great team of the 80's and alongside Peter Reid they created a heck of a central midfield. I could have gone for either but Bracewell just pinches it.
3. Kevin Ratcliffe. Captain and centre half, he held the team together, cracking all round player.

Apologies to Trevor Steven if you are reading this, you would be next up.
		
Click to expand...

Even worse when you think of the players we’ve had outside of their prime, some of these 11 you forget even played for us:

Nigel Martyn

Richard Gough
David Weir
Kenny Sansom
Slaven Bilic

Peter Beardsley
Mikel Arteta
David Ginola
Paul Gascoigne

Mark Hughes
Andrei Kanchelskis


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2021)

Just 3 🤔 blimey that’s tough 

I’ll cheat and go three from Prem Era and three from before football was invented 😁

Prem Era

Suarez 
Gerrard 
Alonso

Suarez up front with Mo , Manny and Bobby would just score for fun 

Even more so with Gerrard and Alonso behind pulling the strings - honourable mentions for God and Hyypia 

Pre Era

Kenny playing in the Bobby Role would double the amount of chances for Mo 

Barnes - doesn’t need explaining 😁

Hansen - Rolls Royce of a defender


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## Fade and Die (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If we lived in some strange universe in which fans could resurrect 3 of their ex Premiership retired players to join their current team, in their prime, who would it be? (Yeah, been bored tonight as my interest in EFL Cup disappeared when we got knocked out)

As a Utd fan, my choices surprised even me, and no doubt I'd change my mind hourly.

1. Roy Keane: This was actually the easiest decision I've ever made in my life. No explanation required.
2. Jaap Stam: Ok, got Maguire and Varane, but need an absolute rock at the back. A leader along with Keano in front.
3. Gary Neville: Holy cow, I am mental. However, good football brain, hard worker, vocal and Mr Reliable. Much stronger than Wan Bissaka

My favourite player of all time is Scholes, and I'd have him ahead of Bruno. But, given we have Bruno, felt it would be a wasted choice. Could have picked from a plethora of attacking players,  but again felt it was the wrong area to strengthen. I guess Schmeichel instead of Neville would be an option, just to get another massive leader in the team, tho him and Keano might come to blows (after they both deal with Pogba first)

Pretty sure I can guess who the Number 1's would be for Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton and Newcastle fans.
		
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As it’s only ex-premiership players most of my favourites are out. No Billy Bonds, Trevor Brooking or Alan Devonshire.

However in a dream where David Moyes could somehow get them playing in his current team and putting in the required effort I would have:

1) Paolo Di Canio, the guy was fantastic, he had such vision and awareness he would be trying stuff that was on a different wavelength to the rest of the team.
2) Dimitri Payet, only played for us for a season and a half but when he was in his pomp he was the most exciting player I had ever seen at West Ham.
3) Rio Ferdinand, a brilliant modern defender, great tackler and superb at distributing the ball.

To be honest though Moyes has got such a great “team” at the moment maybe a Billy Big Balls type player would not fit into the group. (Although Jesse did ok last term)


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## nickjdavis (Oct 28, 2021)

Three Newcastle players...

1. Ginola
2. Ferdinand (better strike rate than Shearer)
3. Beardsley


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 28, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Even worse when you think of the players we’ve had outside of their prime, some of these 11 you forget even played for us:

Nigel Martyn

Richard Gough
David Weir
Kenny Sansom
Slaven Bilic

Peter Beardsley
Mikel Arteta
David Ginola
Paul Gascoigne

Mark Hughes
Andrei Kanchelskis
		
Click to expand...

A great team. Sadly most, not all, came to us well past their prime. I wouldn't mind that team at their peak though.

Apologies, to the originator of this bit of fun, I didn't pick up on the ex-Premiership players aspect.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2021)

Dalgleish my favour player.
Hansen best defender I ever watched . On a par with VVD imo.
Rush clinical finisher and first line of defence.

There are so many it’s really tough.
We havnt had many good ones since we have been in the prem.
Suarez
Gerrard
Torres.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 28, 2021)

For Man City. 
flippin eck. I am not sure I could, the older fans rave about Colin Bell. But to put an Ex player in the team you would be talking about  Vinnie Kompany. City have been rammel for decades so my three would be 
Dave Watson
Vinnie
Colin Bell


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			For Man City.
flippin eck. I am not sure I could, the older fans rave about Colin Bell. But to put an Ex player in the team you would be talking about  Vinnie Kompany. City have been rammel for decades so my three would be
Dave Watson
Vinnie
Colin Bell
		
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Seen Bell play many times.
Real quality player.
He would fit in City’s team now imo he was that good he would adapt.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 28, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			As it’s only ex-premiership players most of my favourites are out. No Billy Bonds, Trevor Brooking or Alan Devonshire.

However in a dream where David Moyes could somehow get them playing in his current team and putting in the required effort I would have:

1) Paolo Di Canio, the guy was fantastic, he had such vision and awareness he would be trying stuff that was on a different wavelength to the rest of the team.
2) Dimitri Payet, only played for us for a season and a half but when he was in his pomp he was the most exciting player I had ever seen at West Ham.
3) Rio Ferdinand, a brilliant modern defender, great tackler and superb at distributing the ball.

To be honest though Moyes has got such a great “team” at the moment maybe a Billy Big Balls type player would not fit into the group. (Although Jesse did ok last term)
		
Click to expand...

From what I've heard Jesse has two personas .. social media he seems billy big but he is very down to earth (apparently) which is why Moyes wanted him 

I agree with your 3 I just didn't go for them because payet was great but i see he as the main reason for our amazing season few years ago. He raised everyone around hims game because he was that good they trusted him on the ball. Made others look better. Downed tools second season after failure to invest , promises broken and we looked awful 

He made bilic look half decent as a manager but has been found out at every job since


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## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			For Man City.
flippin eck. I am not sure I could, the older fans rave about Colin Bell. But to put an Ex player in the team you would be talking about  Vinnie Kompany. City have been rammel for decades so my three would be
Dave Watson
Vinnie
Colin Bell
		
Click to expand...

Question asked for Prem only so yours is easy. Aguero, Kompany, David Silva.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Question asked for Prem only so yours is easy. Aguero, Kompany, David Silva. 

Click to expand...

Nah we don’t need a striker 😂😂 certainly not after last nights performanc. Talk soon off to golf for last Q or the year.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 28, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			As it’s only ex-premiership players most of my favourites are out. No Billy Bonds, Trevor Brooking or Alan Devonshire.

However in a dream where David Moyes could somehow get them playing in his current team and putting in the required effort I would have:

1) Paolo Di Canio, the guy was fantastic, he had such vision and awareness he would be trying stuff that was on a different wavelength to the rest of the team.
2) Dimitri Payet, only played for us for a season and a half but when he was in his pomp he was the most exciting player I had ever seen at West Ham.
3) Rio Ferdinand, a brilliant modern defender, great tackler and superb at distributing the ball.

To be honest though Moyes has got such a great “team” at the moment maybe a Billy Big Balls type player would not fit into the group. (Although Jesse did ok last term)
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, was thinking of picking anyone from all time, but decided against it because:


I was about 11 when the Premier League started, so I can only really comment on players from before that based on the stories of others. It basically gave me a good reason to not fretting about not picking Best or Charlton. Also, since the Premiership, televised football has hugely increased, so most of us now get to watch players week in week out from all teams. I remember a time when I was very young the only live football was the FA Cup final, some International football and World Cups / Euros. Match of the Day was the only chance to see snippets of the weekly action. There was a mystique about European teams, because you would hear the stories but never really see them play. Nowadays it is easier to have a proper opinion on teams / players without relying on the hype.
Since the Premier League began, the money that has gone into the game is ridiculous. Not just player wages, but training, food science, fitness, etc. I'd find it impossible to compare players from such different eras. Best was a genius of his time, but if he turned up to play for Utd next weekend pissed out of his face, he may struggle against immensely fit defenders who will not dive into a challenge that he can skip away from. 
Some slight breaks of the rules as well, as I notice prime Bale was picked for Spurs by Orikoru  . I included retired, because it is harsh that Spurs get a prime Bale, but United can't have a 24yr old Cristiano simply because he came back to Utd. Also, I think you need to have an ex-player playing at a level in which they achieved at your club. Not sure Eto'o and Gazza achieved that at Everton.

Mind you, who cares. Bit of fun and interesting how fans would build on their team from players of the past, however they do it.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 28, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Even worse when you think of the players we’ve had outside of their prime, some of these 11 you forget even played for us:

Nigel Martyn

Richard Gough
David Weir
Kenny Sansom
Slaven Bilic

Peter Beardsley
Mikel Arteta
David Ginola
Paul Gascoigne

Mark Hughes
Andrei Kanchelskis
		
Click to expand...

I'll go for our youth player selling/ let go 11 (well 10 because I don't remember ever making a good keeper)

------------------ill put in bywater 

G Johnson Ferdinand Terry k Richardson 

-----------lampard -- Carrick---ince  ----

-----------   j Cole------defoe ------cottee


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## Swango1980 (Oct 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Question asked for Prem only so yours is easy. Aguero, Kompany, David Silva. 

Click to expand...

I thought City fans would have the biggest problem with this, as they are so good now.

Kompany is the only one I could think off. Off course Aguero and Silva would be great, but they are not retired yet so off limits 

Player I remember fondly, Kinkladze. No idea if he was actually that good, I just remember him by that goal. Bit like Yeboah, score a few crackers and become a legend on the back of it. Not sure who else City have had that immediatey spring to mind. Joey Barton, Bellamy, Dunne, Michael Ball, Quinn, Rosler. Honestly, I think I'm just randomly remembering players, possibly thinking back to my last sticker album


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## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I thought City fans would have the biggest problem with this, as they are so good now.

Kompany is the only one I could think off. Off course Aguero and Silva would be great, but they are not retired yet so off limits 

Player I remember fondly, Kinkladze. No idea if he was actually that good, I just remember him by that goal. Bit like Yeboah, score a few crackers and become a legend on the back of it. Not sure who else City have had that immediatey spring to mind. Joey Barton, Bellamy, Dunne, Michael Ball, Quinn, Rosler. Honestly, I think I'm just randomly remembering players, possibly thinking back to my last sticker album
		
Click to expand...

I didn't know they had to be retired, two of my three are out of the equation now.  Oops.

Tevez has practically retired, they could go for him. I think Yaya has retired now so there's him as well of course.


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## fundy (Oct 28, 2021)

Purely in order of what we really need:

assuming I cant have prime Arsene Wenger as one of my choices (yes i know the Utd fans would have Sir Alex)

Viera - still not been replaced 15 years later
Adams - centre half, organiser, captain, leader
Bergkamp - the creator we need, would be perfect in the modern game imo, ahead of his time

seems ridiculous not to include Henry and not even discuss 10-15 other who would waltz into the current set up  yup its that depressing


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## Swango1980 (Oct 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			Purely in order of what we really need:

assuming I cant have prime Arsene Wenger as one of my choices (yes i know the Utd fans would have Sir Alex)

Viera - still not been replaced 15 years later
Adams - centre half, organiser, captain, leader
Bergkamp - the creator we need, would be perfect in the modern game imo, ahead of his time

seems ridiculous not to include Henry and not even discuss 10-15 other who would waltz into the current set up  yup its that depressing
		
Click to expand...

I thought you'd have Henry, he was class.

OK, on a bit of a tangent to the original question, if you wish you can swap any of those 3 players for prime Wenger. And, by giving you that chance, I will swap Gary Neville for Sir Alex


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I thought you'd have Henry, he was class.

OK, on a bit of a tangent to the original question, if you wish you can swap any of those 3 players for prime Wenger. And, by giving you that chance, I will swap Gary Neville for Sir Alex 

Click to expand...

Think Shankly would be in for me.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think Shankly would be in for me.
		
Click to expand...

Brave call. Bringing 3 players in, you can keep the players you've got (or bin the worst 3 in a large squad). Bringing Shankly in, your going to have to kick Klopp out the door. Unless you plan on having a joint management team, like the Evans / Houllier days.


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## Piece (Oct 28, 2021)

My three players:

 Digger - a.k.a. John Barnes - a player ahead of his time. When he was good he was silky brilliant, just too good for the oppo. No real surprise he went to Liverpool and tore up trees there. Wasted by England, but that's a separate topic.
 Filippo Galli - legend at AC Milan and far and away the best defender I've seen playing for us.
 Daniel Tozser - included for his set piece taking and brilliant free kicks. We are desperate for that today!


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## Slime (Oct 28, 2021)

1. Stam
2. Keane
3. Cantona

Job done.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2021)

On the theme of 3 players, which 3 players that played for you would you of given away for free and forced to play for your rivals.

LPool get

Cuco Martina (LB)
Andy Van der Mede (Mid)
Brett Angell (Forward)


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## Fade and Die (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, was thinking of picking anyone from all time, but decided against it because:


I was about 11 when the Premier League started, so I can only really comment on players from before that based on the stories of others. It basically gave me a good reason to not fretting about not picking Best or Charlton. Also, since the Premiership, televised football has hugely increased, so most of us now get to watch players week in week out from all teams. I remember a time when I was very young the only live football was the FA Cup final, some International football and World Cups / Euros. Match of the Day was the only chance to see snippets of the weekly action. There was a mystique about European teams, because you would hear the stories but never really see them play. Nowadays it is easier to have a proper opinion on teams / players without relying on the hype.
Since the Premier League began, the money that has gone into the game is ridiculous. Not just player wages, but training, food science, fitness, etc. I'd find it impossible to compare players from such different eras. Best was a genius of his time, but if he turned up to play for Utd next weekend pissed out of his face, he may struggle against immensely fit defenders who will not dive into a challenge that he can skip away from.
Some slight breaks of the rules as well, as I notice prime Bale was picked for Spurs by Orikoru  . I included retired, because it is harsh that Spurs get a prime Bale, but United can't have a 24yr old Cristiano simply because he came back to Utd. Also, I think you need to have an ex-player playing at a level in which they achieved at your club. Not sure Eto'o and Gazza achieved that at Everton.

Mind you, who cares. Bit of fun and interesting how fans would build on their team from players of the past, however they do it.
		
Click to expand...

Seems fair, by limiting it to just prem players at least most will have seen them and can judge, no use me saying some obscure player like Anton Otulakowski was one of the finest midfielders ever to grace the hallowed turf of Upton Park if no one has heard of him, it’s not interesting either.  Good little sub thread.👍


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## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			On the theme of 3 players, which 3 players that played for you would you of given away for free and forced to play for your rivals.

LPool get

Cuco Martina (LB)
Andy Van der Mede (Mid)
Brett Angell (Forward)
		
Click to expand...



Vlad Chiriches & Ramon Vega for a start. Good luck defending with those two at the back. Then we'll stick Vincent Janssen up top. Cow's arse and banjo come to mind. Although I'm torn between him and Rasiak.


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## Piece (Oct 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:





Vlad Chiriches & Ramon Vega for a start. Good luck defending with those two at the back. Then we'll stick Vincent Janssen up top. Cow's arse and banjo come to mind. Although I'm torn between him and Rasiak.
		
Click to expand...

For us...

Ramon Vega 🤣
Nathan Ellington
Devon White


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## Swango1980 (Oct 28, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			On the theme of 3 players, which 3 players that played for you would you of given away for free and forced to play for your rivals.

LPool get

Cuco Martina (LB)
Andy Van der Mede (Mid)
Brett Angell (Forward)
		
Click to expand...

Well, no doubt there will be some reserve players who are long long forgotten (ben thornley, o'kane) etc.
Mone would be:

Bebe to replace Salah at Liverpool
William Prunier for Van Dijk at Liverpool
Djembe Djembe for Kevin DeBruyne

Although the 3rd one probably won't hurt City too much with their squad


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, no doubt there will be some reserve players who are long long forgotten (ben thornley, o'kane) etc.
Mone would be:

Bebe to replace Salah at Liverpool
William Prunier for Van Dijk at Liverpool
Djembe Djembe for Kevin DeBruyne

Although the 3rd one probably won't hurt City too much with their squad

Click to expand...

No Massimo Taibi? Is there not a special place for him?

Funnily enough, I can think of plenty for other clubs, struggling with my own. We have had plenty of howlers, I've clearly blanked them from my memory.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Or Bebe .
		
Click to expand...

Just dont put him on corners.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No Massimo Taibi? Is there not a special place for him?

Funnily enough, I can think of plenty for other clubs, struggling with my own. We have had plenty of howlers, I've clearly blanked them from my memory.
		
Click to expand...

Actually, I had the same thought as soon as I hit send. Swapping 3 players is not enough to destroy all our rivals. So, as I think it would be easier to destroy Liverpool than City, forget Djemebex2 for De Bruyne. Instead, Taibi for Alisson.


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## fundy (Oct 28, 2021)

Igor Stepanovs, Sebastien Squillacci and Shodran Mustafi

Yep we win lol

I wouldve included Iwobi but somehow Everton paid us £30m for him 🤣🤣🤣


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## Hobbit (Oct 28, 2021)

Emerson, he was way better than Juininho till his wife ran off back to Brazil.
Ravanelli, pain in the butt but what a goal scorer.
Gazza, I thought was a poor acquisition but even at the end of his career he was amazing.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			Igor Stepanovs, Sebastien Squillacci and Shodran Mustafi

Yep we win lol

*I wouldve included Iwobi but somehow Everton paid us £30m for him* 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

La la la, can't hear anything


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Brave call. Bringing 3 players in, you can keep the players you've got (or bin the worst 3 in a large squad). Bringing Shankly in, your going to have to kick Klopp out the door. Unless you plan on having a joint management team, like the Evans / Houllier days.
		
Click to expand...

Klopp might be like Shanks one day 
But me I prefer old school.
But those days are long gone.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, no doubt there will be some reserve players who are long long forgotten (ben thornley, o'kane) etc.
Mone would be:

Bebe to replace Salah at Liverpool
William Prunier for Van Dijk at Liverpool
Djembe Djembe for Kevin DeBruyne

Although the 3rd one probably won't hurt City too much with their squad

Click to expand...

If KDB is out can we have him please.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 28, 2021)

Does a transfer to Real Madrid count as retirement?    Okay, no Hazard then. 

Drogba, Zola & Gullit please.  A pre GBH Petr Cech might have made it if it wasn't for the emergence of Edouard Mendy.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Does a transfer to Real Madrid count as retirement?    Okay, no Hazard then. 

Drogba, Zola & Gullit please.  A pre GBH Petr Cech might have made it if it wasn't for the emergence of Edouard Mendy.
		
Click to expand...

Put the question to Mrs BiM, who is also a season ticket holder and the response was Cech, Terry & Lampard.  Lampard may not be entirely football related reasons...


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## Billysboots (Oct 28, 2021)

Slime said:



			1. Stam
2. Keane
3. Cantona

Job done.
		
Click to expand...

I’m always mystified why Eric Djemba Djemba never gets mentioned in these discussions. Talented, team player, and a regular match winner.

Oh, hang on a sec. Wrong “Eric”.

😉


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## 4LEX (Oct 28, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			It was at that point I turned off. School kids in a playground was exactly what it was like, with prefect Graeme Souness leading the way. I cannot abide the man. Neville was never going to win the debate with that pair sat on the other side of the studio.
		
Click to expand...

Probably because Neville was totally wrong and his support for the nepotism that runs through Man Utd is causing all the issues. Not a great Souness fan myself but seeing him run rings around Neville spells the end. Imagine going to work and being humiliated on a weekly basis by your peers and all your opinions being wrong. And played out infront of millions. Roy Keane isn't stupid, he saw the car crash coming and decided to take his dog for a walk on Sunday.

Red Nev is now an old dog that needs putting out of his misery. He should focus on 'The Overlap' which is actually very, very good. Less of his opinions and letting his guests showcase themselves.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 28, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Probably because Neville was totally wrong and his support for the nepotism that runs through Man Utd is causing all the issues. Not a great Souness fan myself but seeing him run rings around Neville spells the end. Imagine going to work and being humiliated on a weekly basis by your peers and all your opinions being wrong. And played out infront of millions. Roy Keane isn't stupid, he saw the car crash coming and decided to take his dog for a walk on Sunday.

Red Nev is now an old dog that needs putting out of his misery. He should focus on 'The Overlap' which is actually very, very good. Less of his opinions and letting his guests showcase themselves.
		
Click to expand...

Sky football for a long time the problem has been Neville and Carra. I don’t mind opinions but rose tinted is an understatement. It would be easy for me to say I don’t like them coz they are reds, but so is Keane. He says it as it is, him and Richards at times are the new Saint and Greavsie. I get that Neville is passionate about Utd but it is a stuck record for the last 18 months. There is more than one team in the prem..


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## DanFST (Oct 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			There is more than one team in the prem..
		
Click to expand...

From this thread, there's only 2.


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## 4LEX (Oct 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Personally, I still really like him. I pretty much avoid twitter, so pretty much avoid his political tweets. He's entitled to his opinion, can agree or not agree, but I distance myself from it as much as I can.

Yes, he has not asked for Oles head, and keeps talking about the need to support managers. However, he was also clear he is under massive pressure and was also very clear where he thought we are tactically wrong, and that is the coaching staffs fault. However, if he doesn't want to ask for a mate to get sacked, I respect that. However, even more so, I don't think he has ever asked for any Utd or other manager to be sacked? If that is the case, surely he is being consistent. We know he will never ask for that, that is the board decision. I also respect Carragher voicing his belief that Ole is not good enough and should go. That is his opinion (which I agree with), and he chooses to express that. No problem at all. However, when they know Neville will not openly express the same opinion, I think it gets out of order that they press and press and press it on him, basically to make him look stupid as he refuses to openly agree with them. Was like watching school kids in a playground. Would also be interesting if Gerrard becomes the future Liverpool manager, and after 2 or 3 years Liverpool go downhill. Will Carragher confidently tell us all at home that Gerrard is not good enough and needs to go? I think he'd think twice about it, are be very cagey at least. That would be more hypocritical, as he is happy to call out other managers.

Favourite pundits: Neville, Carragher (yes, still like him as a pundit), Keane, Scholes, Richards (only when Keane is on)
Least favourite: Sutton, Souness, Hargreaves, Jenas, J Redknapp
		
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The coaching staff Ole selected. Obviously totally under qualified, as to not rock the boat. This is Man Utd, not a Sunday pub side. Friendship doesn't come into it, if he's not upto the job it should be made clear. Neville has peddled a load of lies about Mourinho when the bottom line is this, he got a far worse Utd team to second with 83 points and won 2 trophies. Ole has had twice the money and more time and is now sitting way off the pace without a single trophy. How is that progress? Seeing Ole talk about fine margins after the game said it all, it's not fine margins, it's world class coaching that gets trophies. 

Gerrard is a different level to Ole, he's already achieved more in a few years than Ole has in 15. But I'm sure Carragher would still put the boot in to him if he was proving to be a failure at Anfield. 

Agree to your pundit rating though, although Jamie Redknapp is good value and a top guy. The worst pundit by far is Karen Carney. Underrated goes to Clinton Morrison, he needs more exposure.


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## Billysboots (Oct 28, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Probably because Neville was totally wrong and his support for the nepotism that runs through Man Utd is causing all the issues. Not a great Souness fan myself but seeing him run rings around Neville spells the end. Imagine going to work and being humiliated on a weekly basis by your peers and all your opinions being wrong. And played out infront of millions. Roy Keane isn't stupid, he saw the car crash coming and decided to take his dog for a walk on Sunday.

Red Nev is now an old dog that needs putting out of his misery. He should focus on 'The Overlap' which is actually very, very good. Less of his opinions and letting his guests showcase themselves.
		
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I don’t disagree. He was fighting a losing battle because he had the blinkers on. I’m not an enormous Carragher fan either but, on Sunday, I confess that he and Souness made Neville look rather foolish. I just didn’t particularly enjoy the tag team approach they adopted in order to achieve it.


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## Swingalot (Oct 28, 2021)

Ian Wright 
Lombardo (yes he really did play for us)
Kenny Sansom 

Passion as well as the skills.

Honourable mention to Nigel Martyn, brilliant keeper who simply played for the wrong clubs otherwise would have played more for England.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Sky football for a long time the problem has been Neville and Carra. I don’t mind opinions but rose tinted is an understatement. It would be easy for me to say I don’t like them coz they are reds, but so is Keane. He says it as it is, him and Richards at times are the new Saint and Greavsie. I get that Neville is passionate about Utd but it is a stuck record for the last 18 months. There is more than one team in the prem..
		
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It's mad how we see/hear things differently. At times, for me, Carra tends to criticise liverpool more than is deserved. Its like he needs to be seen to be impartial so goes the other way with us.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I don’t disagree. He was fighting a losing battle because he had the blinkers on. I’m not an enormous Carragher fan either but, on Sunday, I confess that he and Souness made Neville look rather foolish. *I just didn’t particularly enjoy the tag team approach they adopted in order to achieve it.*

Click to expand...

I loved it 😉

If it was an uncomfortable watch for the yernited fans, imagine how Neville felt discussing it.  I don't think he could've  done much more really. He had a choice to either protect OGS or throw him under the bus, he done the former and I'd have expected Carra and Souey to do the same.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The coaching staff Ole selected. Obviously totally under qualified, as to not rock the boat. This is Man Utd, not a Sunday pub side. Friendship doesn't come into it, if he's not upto the job it should be made clear. Neville has peddled a load of lies about Mourinho when the bottom line is this, he got a far worse Utd team to second with 83 points and won 2 trophies. Ole has had twice the money and more time and is now sitting way off the pace without a single trophy. How is that progress? Seeing Ole talk about fine margins after the game said it all, it's not fine margins, it's world class coaching that gets trophies.

*Gerrard is a different level to Ole, he's already achieved more in a few years than Ole has in 15. But I'm sure Carragher would still put the boot in to him if he was proving to be a failure at Anfield.*

Agree to your pundit rating though, although Jamie Redknapp is good value and a top guy. The worst pundit by far is Karen Carney. Underrated goes to Clinton Morrison, he needs more exposure.
		
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I'm sure Carra would but I doubt he'd go to the extent that fans would expect.

I agree with Karen Carney, she's awful. Totally disagree about Morrison too, the less of him the  better, I just can't take to him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 29, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The coaching staff Ole selected. Obviously totally under qualified, as to not rock the boat. This is Man Utd, not a Sunday pub side. Friendship doesn't come into it, if he's not upto the job it should be made clear. Neville has peddled a load of lies about Mourinho when the bottom line is this, he got a far worse Utd team to second with 83 points and won 2 trophies. Ole has had twice the money and more time and is now sitting way off the pace without a single trophy. How is that progress? Seeing Ole talk about fine margins after the game said it all, it's not fine margins, it's world class coaching that gets trophies.

Gerrard is a different level to Ole, he's already achieved more in a few years than Ole has in 15. But I'm sure Carragher would still put the boot in to him if he was proving to be a failure at Anfield.

Agree to your pundit rating though, although Jamie Redknapp is good value and a top guy. The worst pundit by far is Karen Carney. Underrated goes to Clinton Morrison, he needs more exposure.
		
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i find Clinton Morrison the worst one out of the lot on the box 

But he isn’t as bad as the likes of Bent , Agbonlahor, O Hara and the most bias one of the lot Sinclair 

Sinclair can only ever see two teams - West Ham and Man City - this morning he was talking West Ham up to be challenging City over the next couple of seasons 😂😂😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm sure Carra would but I doubt he'd go to the extent that fans would expect.

I agree with Karen Carney, she's awful. Totally disagree about Morrison too, the less of him the  better, I just can't take to him.
		
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Would it be obtuse of me to suggest she is there because she ticks boxes and not because her assessment, opinions, of the game are rammel.


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## Orikoru (Oct 29, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			Ian Wright
Lombardo (yes he really did play for us)
Kenny Sansom

Passion as well as the skills.

Honourable mention to *Nigel Martyn, brilliant keeper who simply played for the wrong clubs otherwise would have played more for England.*

Click to expand...

I thought it was more the fact that he was unlucky to play at the same time as David Seaman.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Would it be obtuse of me to suggest she is there because she ticks boxes and not because her assessment, opinions, of the game are rammel.
		
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It is opinions like that which will could get you sacked from your job


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It is opinions like that which will could get you sacked from your job 

Click to expand...

Fortunately am retired. 😁
Joking aside I do think we need a variety of opinions re football and other topics, but I would sooner have someone that is a bit more experience then me


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## hairball_89 (Oct 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Fortunately am retired. 😁
Joking aside I do think we need a variety of opinions re football and other topics, *but I would sooner have someone that is a bit more experience then me*

Click to expand...

With reference to Karen Carney, she is. You may not agree with her opinions, but she is vastly more experienced than anyone here in elite level football.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Would it be obtuse of me to suggest she is there because she ticks boxes and not because her assessment, opinions, of the game are rammel.
		
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In my opinion no.  The same can be said about the increase of black players getting invited onto the shows. I'm all for it to be honest as long as they're good.

As an example Emma Hayes was brilliant over the Euros. Alex Scott is another good one too.

I don't look at an ex black player or woman and dismiss their opinion or analysis because of who they are, nor do I do the same If it's an ex player of a rival club.

Carney is a better footballer than I'll ever be but I can still disagree with her Co comms or analysis.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 29, 2021)




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## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 39241

Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## DanFST (Oct 29, 2021)

West ham buy a lanky bloke that likes potato salad to help us stave off relegation. Few years later, he's a key catalyst in a potential takeover bid.  

The reaction to this from some silly toon fans is hilarious.


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## Beezerk (Oct 29, 2021)

DanFST said:



			West ham buy a lanky bloke that likes potato salad to help us stave off relegation. Few years later, he's a key catalyst in a potential takeover bid. 

The reaction to this from some silly toon fans is hilarious.
		
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Well share the reactions then fer christs sake 😆


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## DanFST (Oct 29, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Well share the reactions then fer christs sake 😆
		
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General trend, apparently a Czech business man and a horrible government are the same thing. Only a minority of stupid toon fans tho, most are sound.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 29, 2021)

DanFST said:



			West ham buy a lanky bloke that likes potato salad to help us stave off relegation. Few years later, he's a key catalyst in a potential takeover bid. 

The reaction to this from some silly toon fans is hilarious.
		
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Toons fans are desperate right now looking for whataboutary to try and deflect away 

Seems that a Saudi Clubs kit is supplied by New Balance who used to supply the Liverpool kit - the investment meeting took place at Anfield and that means they were investing in Liverpool apparently


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## pauljames87 (Oct 29, 2021)

DanFST said:



			West ham buy a lanky bloke that likes potato salad to help us stave off relegation. Few years later, he's a key catalyst in a potential takeover bid. 

The reaction to this from some silly toon fans is hilarious.
		
Click to expand...

Even tho his switch of position this season affecting his game a bit I think he is one the best signings in recent history in terms of what he has done 

He stabilised our midfield 

He got coufal brought in

Now this ? 

Top work by the team to get him in


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## Beezerk (Oct 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Toons fans are desperate right now looking for whataboutary to try and deflect away
		
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Really, and you know this how exactly?
I can assure you the majority do not give a flying fig about it, they're all over the moon that the club is finally going somewhere.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 29, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Really, and you know this how exactly?
I can assure you the majority do not give a flying fig about it, they're all over the moon that the club is finally going somewhere.
		
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Exactly this,they’re all buzzing on my Twitter feed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2021)

League Cup Draw

Spurs vs West Ham
Arsenal vs Sunderland 
Brentford vs Chelsea 
Liverpool vs Leicester


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			League Cup Draw

Spurs vs West Ham
Arsenal vs Sunderland 
Brentford vs Chelsea 
Liverpool vs Leicester
		
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not unhappy lol


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			not unhappy lol
		
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Aubameyang even money to have a shot on target today.


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2021)

might be time for some humble pie on the Ramsdale signing me thinks, some save that. Would help if White stopped giving away soft free kicks on the edge of the box tho


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## Fade and Die (Oct 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			not unhappy lol
		
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I would have put my house on Arsenal getting Sunderland at home.😄

Anyway, Spurs….Could be a banana skin. West Ham have a habit of going out to minnows in the cup. 😬


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## pauljames87 (Oct 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			might be time for some humble pie on the Ramsdale signing me thinks, some save that. Would help if White stopped giving away soft free kicks on the edge of the box tho
		
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Pickford looked brilliant for Sunderland because he had so much work. Ramsdale looked average at relegated clubs but seems to have that concentration level for a top keeper .. very hard to find those who can be doing nothing for ages and then switch it on


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## pauljames87 (Oct 30, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			I would have put my house on Arsenal getting Sunderland at home.😄

Anyway, Spurs….Could be a banana skin. West Ham have a habit of going out to minnows in the cup. 😬
		
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Seems so far away the 20th December week of

Should be a good game

Maybe they will rest their entire first 11 again for the premier League fixturev


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## IanM (Oct 30, 2021)

Ramsdale wasn't wanted by the Ars fans i know.   I don't think they thought he was foreign enough!

Did ok today for them


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2021)

IanM said:



			Ramsdale wasn't wanted by the Ars fans i know.   I don't think they thought he was foreign enough!

Did ok today for them
		
Click to expand...


More a case of we had a keeper who was good enough and there were some glaring holes that needed addressing far more for me, wasnt a fan but hes done well so far


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## chrisd (Oct 30, 2021)

Can the Mighty Eagles waste 85 minutes?


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## chrisd (Oct 30, 2021)

Don't need to time waste 😁😁😁😁😁


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## Swango1980 (Oct 30, 2021)

Well, looks like Liverpool back to.playing a decent side this weekend. And great result for Palace. Chelsea having a great weekend.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 30, 2021)

Work's LMS now rumbles into a 4th rollover on the back of the City & Liverpool results.


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## Billysboots (Oct 30, 2021)

That starting XI for United is as dull as it gets. Seven defensive players in front of de Gea? If they ship goals with that lineup against a Spurs side which has an appalling record in front of goal this season there genuinely is no hope for the future.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 30, 2021)

How’s it go again Stu La?
Karma 
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Oct 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			That starting XI for United is as dull as it gets. Seven defensive players in front of de Gea? If they ship goals with that lineup against a Spurs side which has an appalling record in front of goal this season there genuinely is no hope for the future.
		
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Only intriguing thing is Ronaldo and Cavani starting together. But yes, so so defensive. But I guess it is a must, can't rely on players like Greenwood and Rashford working hard off the ball. 

I'd bet 0-0, but that would mean Utd get a rare clean sheet


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## Slime (Oct 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Only intriguing thing is Ronaldo and Cavani starting together. But yes, so so defensive. But I guess it is a must, can't rely on players like Greenwood and Rashford working hard off the ball.

I'd bet 0-0, but that would mean Utd get a rare clean sheet
		
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With Ronaldo and Cavani up front, United just HAVE TO get some decent crosses in as they are both so good in the air.


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## paddyc (Oct 30, 2021)

Can't decide who I want to lose this one. Probably....utd


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## Hobbit (Oct 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			With Ronaldo and Cavani up front, United just HAVE TO get some decent crosses in as they are both so good in the air.
		
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Got to agree with this. Both of them would make decent flight attendants


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## Slime (Oct 30, 2021)

Hey ......................... Stu ................... 




CR7 ....................... you beauty!


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2021)

Yay the squirrell lives


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## Slime (Oct 30, 2021)

Unlike Romero.
I think a sniper has just shot him in the face!
Oh, hang on a second, no, he's fine ......................... must just have been my telly!


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 30, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			How’s it go again Stu La?
Karma
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Not sure why the mods edited this.
Seems it’s ok for some to post it & not others 🤷‍♂️


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## BrianM (Oct 30, 2021)

Some finish from Ronaldo that.
On another note watched the Fulham game today and the boy Harry Wilson looks a cracking player.


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## Dando (Oct 30, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Can't decide who I want to lose this one. Probably....utd
		
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It’s like choosing which leg you to be cut off


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2021)

Dando said:



			It’s like choosing which leg you to be cut off
		
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that makes it worse when I went for both lol


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## Papas1982 (Oct 30, 2021)

Only just seen the post about past players.

Christ we could go for a whole team. 

Obviously Le Tissier. 
VVD prior to having his head turned basically phoning it in.

3rd.... Hmmm, quite a few players who are clearly good enough to get in our started 11's. 

But if trying to pick them form their time simply at us and how they'd add to the team. 

I'm gonna go with Morgan Schneiderlen. 

His first seasons in pl were as good as any DM seen the the pl for a few years.


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## DaveR (Oct 30, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not sure why the mods edited this.
Seems it’s ok for some to post it & not others 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they realise that you're just a wind up merchant and never actually contribute anything?


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## DaveR (Oct 30, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Only just seen the post about past players.

Christ we could go for a whole team.

Obviously Le Tissier.
VVD prior to having his head turned basically phoning it in.

3rd.... Hmmm, quite a few players who are clearly good enough to get in our started 11's.

But if trying to pick them form their time simply at us and how they'd add to the team.

I'm gonna go with Morgan Schneiderlen.

His first seasons in pl were as good as any DM seen the the pl for a few years.
		
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Chris Marsden footballing God!


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## pokerjoke (Oct 30, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Maybe they realise that you're just a wind up merchant and never actually contribute anything?
		
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Or he tells it like it is and the snowflakes don’t like it.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			That starting XI for United is as dull as it gets. Seven defensive players in front of de Gea? If they ship goals with that lineup against a Spurs side which has an appalling record in front of goal this season there genuinely is no hope for the future.
		
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Or the players attitude changes and they actually put in a shift and play as a team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2021)

Gary Neville 😂😂😂😂


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## Papas1982 (Oct 30, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Chris Marsden footballing God!
		
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Hahaha. 

My god. He was such a bad footballer lol


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 30, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Maybe they realise that you're just a wind up merchant and never actually contribute anything?
		
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Trust me I’m not alone on that 😂


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2021)

Locals are getting restless........

Alex Kay-Jelski  @AlexKayJelski
59s
Spurs fans rowing over Nuno out in East Stand. 

Some being restrained by security guards as they try get to people they are disagreeing with. 

Not a good night here


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## Billysboots (Oct 30, 2021)

Jeez, I thought United were bad. This Spurs side are beyond shocking.


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2021)

Nunos at the wheel, at the wheel, Nunos at the wheel....


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## Slime (Oct 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Jeez, I thought United were bad. This Spurs side are beyond shocking.
		
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They were made to look shocking by a team that actually looked more like a team than they have for weeks!
Oh, and three absolutely superb finishes.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2021)

12 passes, 1 shot, 1 cross, 2 fouls conceded. £150m you say Daniel lol


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## Swango1980 (Oct 30, 2021)

United will convince no one, especially as Spurs look terrible. But, it shows that Utd cannot just go into every match and think they can play lovely quick attacking football. They get battered by average sides let alone good ones. But, definitely played like a team for once, showed grit and discipline. Maguire still looks shaky at times, but Varane very composed and just seems to go about his business efficiently.

And Ronaldo, what a player. Cavani too


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## pokerjoke (Oct 30, 2021)

Everyone blaming Ole last week,but what’s changed.
Players working hard,doing their jobs properly and some class chucked in as well.
And some questioning Ronaldo signing 😭


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2021)

Great work - that keeps him at the wheel 😂


Neville going overboard was beyond funny 😂😂😂

As for Spurs - how poor are they now , and Kane - embarrassing


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Everyone blaming Ole last week,but what’s changed.
Players working hard,doing their jobs properly and some class chucked in as well.
And some questioning Ronaldo signing 😭
		
Click to expand...

Difficult for some to give Ole any credit as well.🤷‍♂️


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## Billysboots (Oct 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Everyone blaming Ole last week,but what’s changed.
Players working hard,doing their jobs properly and some class chucked in as well.
And some questioning Ronaldo signing 😭
		
Click to expand...

A good result, and Solskjaer certainly set United up to be difficult to beat, but I’m quite sure even those with the most rose tinted glasses won’t get carried away. If we wanted a game in which to see a reaction, they don’t come much easier than that.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 30, 2021)

Ole set them up well tonight to get at least a draw, with three very good finishes getting them the win. Don't think that a game against Spurs is that useful in terms of judging Ole or Utd with Atalanta, Man City, Villareal and Chelsea coming up in their next 5 games that's the time to judge the manager and team.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			A good result, and Solskjaer certainly set United up to be difficult to beat, but I’m quite sure even those with the most rose tinted glasses won’t get carried away. If we wanted a game in which to see a reaction, they don’t come much easier than that.
		
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After last week’s game people were saying we had no identity etc.
This week we had,that is down to Ole telling players don’t chase lost causes alone,hunt in packs al la Liverpool.
Imo he is a good coach.
No he’s not up there with the best but at least he learnt from last week.
Is he the long term solution,well that remains to be seen.
Unless things go seriously down hill I believe he will get time and backing,so I will back him personally.


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## Billysboots (Oct 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Ole set them up well tonight to get at least a draw, with three very good finishes getting them the win. *Don't think that a game against Spurs is that useful in terms of judging Ole or Utd* with Atalanta, Man City, Villareal and Chelsea coming up in their next 5 games that's the time to judge the manager and team.
		
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Spot on. But I’ll doubtless still get it in the neck for failing to say Olé is the new managerial messiah. He’s not, never will be, and the fact he managed to see what most have been seeing for months, in that we are not compact enough defensively, does not suddenly make him some sort of visionary.


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## Billysboots (Oct 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			After last week’s game people were saying we had no identity etc.
This week we had,that is down to Ole telling players don’t chase lost causes alone,hunt in packs al la Liverpool.
Imo he is a good coach.
No he’s not up there with the best but at least he learnt from last week.
Is he the long term solution,well that remains to be seen.
Unless things go seriously down hill I believe he will get time and backing,so I will back him personally.
		
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We will clearly not agree. He’s not a good coach, he’s naive, and has absolutely no pedigree to fall back on. He’s punching way above his weight, and is absolutely not the man to take this squad to the next level.

I like the guy. I would absolutely love to be proved wrong. But I just can’t see it happening.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 30, 2021)

*much prefer that formation for United *

*teams should play to their strengths and let's face it defensive side of the game isn't theirs so this helps address it . I mean when Moyes came to us he set us up like this and we vastly improved at the back even with the left back at CB!.. so with better players it should work well *

*really helps get the best out of Shaw as he can bomb forward even more *

*Would like to see greenwood up with Ronaldo*

*onto spurs.......*

*my goodness. I used to think they weren't a one man team but boy with Kane playing this bad he is dragging them down*

*surely it's time to bench him to get his head right .. see if the team can find something without him for a bit

I hope that nuno is at the wheel for Xmas as I really want him to be there for the cup match..*


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Spot on. But I’ll doubtless still get it in the neck for failing to say Olé is the new managerial messiah. He’s not, never will be, and the fact he managed to see what most have been seeing for months, in that we are not compact enough defensively, does not suddenly make him some sort of visionary.
		
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I think you are a  DM and CM away from a good team.
If he buys them I think you will be top four no problem.


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## BrianM (Oct 30, 2021)

Why is Lingard not getting more game time, he was excellent at West Ham last season?


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## Billysboots (Oct 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think you are a  DM and CM away from a good team.
If he buys them I think you will be top four no problem.
		
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We should be top four with the squad we already have! With a CM and DM of quality we should be aiming for the title.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Everyone blaming Ole last week,but what’s changed.
Players working hard,doing their jobs properly and some class chucked in as well.
And some questioning Ronaldo signing 😭
		
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What changed is Ole changed formation completely. He made big mistakes, especially against Liverpool, by thinking he could play attacking football. Clearly he was under pressure this week, there is no way he could try the same style. I had mates on whatsapp being critical about lack of pace in team, and bloody McFred again. I actually defended that, it seemed the way to go. 

So, I will definitely give him credit this week. But, this week does not suddenly make Ole a great coach. It was the first game I can remember in a long long time I actually felt relaxed early into 2nd half. If it is the catalyst to start building a solid side finally, absolutely fair play to Ole. I'm sure he'll get his chance until end of season at least, unless they get fooled again into thinking they can boss games playing attacking football.

One thing never in doubt for me, the quality of Ronaldo. I'll never question Utd bringing him back, sheer class.


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## Billysboots (Oct 30, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Why is Lingard not getting more game time, he was excellent at West Ham last season?
		
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Heaven knows. I’m really surprised he’s still at the club - he’s no more than a squad player, whether anyone agrees with that or not.

I really enjoyed watching his rebirth at West Ham last season, and just hope this season doesn’t undo the hard work he clearly put in under Moyes.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 30, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Why is Lingard not getting more game time, he was excellent at West Ham last season?
		
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Agreed, feel sorry for him. However, if Utd start ditching playing Greenwood and Rashford on wings every game, I think Jesse might start getting more chances. Anyone remember Sancho, that guy Utd chased for ages.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Why is Lingard not getting more game time, he was excellent at West Ham last season?
		
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It would mean having to drop Fernandes


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 30, 2021)

The interesting thing for me with the third goal was that Matic played the ball through for Rashford and made no effort at all to get forward to support him, just walked away almost as if he was saying, "I put it on a plate for you and I've got full confidence you'll finish it".


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## paddyc (Oct 30, 2021)

My word Spurs what is going on there. Has to be one of the worse displays I've seen fron any PL club.
I wouldn't get carried away Utd fans with that.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 30, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Why is Lingard not getting more game time, he was excellent at West Ham last season?
		
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Plus with 2 goals in 4 games for them in the league this season you have to question the manager on his judgement.


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## Billysboots (Oct 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			The interesting thing for me with the third goal was that Matic played the ball through for Rashford and made no effort at all to get forward to support him, just walked away almost as if he was saying, "I put it on a plate for you and I've got full confidence you'll finish it".
		
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I’ve always liked Matic - a great pro. Past his best I’m afraid, but really solid in his day.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			We should be top four with the squad we already have! With a CM and DM of quality we should be aiming for the title.
		
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Steady on not with OGS imo.
you have a good defence,
Great quality up front, but you have nobody to link them up imo.
A few times against us they just lumped it out of defence becauSe nobody was showing for the ball.
Your strikers are lazy in their tracking back .
But you need someone in the CM to give them a rocket now and again and link everything up.
But these players are not easy to find.


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## Billysboots (Oct 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



*Steady on not with OGS imo.*
you have a good defence,
Great quality up front, but you have nobody to link them up imo.
A few times against us they just lumped it out of defence becauSe nobody was showing for the ball.
Your strikers are lazy in their tracking back .
But you need someone in the CM to give them a rocket now and again and link everything up.
But these players are not easy to find.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely not with Olé, that’s been my whole point all along. He has the tools available to him to comfortably make top four, if he can get the best out of them.

A top manager would have this squad in the top four without question. Bring in a top DM and a top manager would be up there fighting for the title.

Not Solskjaer I’m afraid.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Heaven knows. I’m really surprised he’s still at the club - he’s no more than a squad player, whether anyone agrees with that or not.

I really enjoyed watching his rebirth at West Ham last season, and just hope this season doesn’t undo the hard work he clearly put in under Moyes.
		
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Shoe in for Newcastle in January

Heard he wanted to stay north for his daughter and it's quicker from Newcastle than London


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## Swango1980 (Oct 30, 2021)

With the formation Utd played today, I was thinking it could spell reduced game time for likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Martial, as Ole will not be able to have as many fast attacking players on pitch at same time.

For first time today, a player that has not even entered my head until now, Pogba. Where the hell does it leave him? His quality will be perfect for someone out there, but it seems clear he has just bot done it consistently at Utd. And Ole certainly does not seem to be able to figure it out, like JM before him. I'd have not lost sleep if Utd got rid of him before when his agent was being noisy, and I'll not cry if we sell him in near future.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Steady on not with OGS imo.
you have a good defence,
Great quality up front, but you have nobody to link them up imo.
A few times against us they just lumped it out of defence becauSe nobody was showing for the ball.
*Your strikers are lazy in their tracking back .*
But you need someone in the CM to give them a rocket now and again and link everything up.
But these players are not easy to find.
		
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Would disagree with this with regards to Cavani. Wouldn't be surprised if he ran further than any other Utd player tonight. His closing down and tracking back should be an example to any young forward.


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## Billysboots (Oct 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			With the formation Utd played today, I was thinking it could spell reduced game time for likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Martial, as Ole will not be able to have as many fast attacking players on pitch at same time.

For first time today, a player that has not even entered my head until now, Pogba. Where the hell does it leave him? His quality will be perfect for someone out there, but it seems clear he has just bot done it consistently at Utd. And Ole certainly does not seem to be able to figure it out, like JM before him. I'd have not lost sleep if Utd got rid of him before when his agent was being noisy, and I'll not cry if we sell him in near future.
		
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Paul Pogba is a luxury that United, whilst they are still trying to figure their own identity out, cannot afford.


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## JamesR (Oct 30, 2021)

I think it’s pretty obvious what the difference is this week from last.
Utd played a good team last week & a poor team this week.
Surely winning against Tottingham and losing against Liverpool doesn’t constitute a good couple of weeks?

No, so why are Utd fans self congratulatory this week?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would disagree with this with regards to Cavani. Wouldn't be surprised if he ran further than any other Utd player tonight. His closing down and tracking back should be an example to any young forward.
		
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My assumption was based on the Liverpool game.


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## JamesR (Oct 30, 2021)

Burnley on the other hand; have we turned a corner? Potential European spot?
Hopefully on the former, Probably not the later


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## Swango1980 (Oct 30, 2021)

JamesR said:



			I think it’s pretty obvious what the difference is this week from last.
Utd played a good team last week & a poor team this week.
Surely winning against Tottingham and losing against Liverpool doesn’t constitute a good couple of weeks?

No, so why are Utd fans self congratulatory this week?
		
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It was still a good performance from Utd this week, and a very different style.

If we were critical of them last week (rightly), we'd also get slated if we stayed quiet this week after a decent performance. Vice versa as well, if we praised every good performance (if we had them) and then conveniently forgot bad ones.

No Utd fans are saying todays performance proves we are a great side though. We could still easily lose mid week and get battered by City.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			With the formation Utd played today, I was thinking it could spell reduced game time for likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Martial, as Ole will not be able to have as many fast attacking players on pitch at same time.

For first time today, a player that has not even entered my head until now, Pogba. Where the hell does it leave him? His quality will be perfect for someone out there, but it seems clear he has just bot done it consistently at Utd. And Ole certainly does not seem to be able to figure it out, like JM before him. I'd have not lost sleep if Utd got rid of him before when his agent was being noisy, and I'll not cry if we sell him in near future.
		
Click to expand...

Time to get rid 

Clearly a good player on his day but for United only he can seem to decide when his good days will be..

Unlike for France where he always puts in a shift

Sell him on , replace move on


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## pokerjoke (Oct 30, 2021)

Least we didn’t lose a 2-0 lead


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## JamesR (Oct 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Least we didn’t lose a 2-0 lead 

Click to expand...

Like the unbeaten team who are in 2nd place in the championship?
Yeah, at least you didn’t do that 😉


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## pokerjoke (Oct 30, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Like the unbeaten team who are in 2nd place in the championship?
Yeah, at least you didn’t do that 😉
		
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Fulham won


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## Cherry13 (Oct 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Time to get rid

Clearly a good player on his day but for United only he can seem to decide when his good days will be..

Unlike for France where he always puts in a shift

Sell him on , replace move on
		
Click to expand...

All the noise around pogba seems to be he will see out contract and then move in summer.  It’s one hell of an outlay for nothing in return. 
I’ve never understood why they didn’t get Kante from Leicester at the time. 

As for Ronaldo, a lot of the podcasts and journos this week been saying he is the problem and doesn’t fit the system… surely with a generational goal scorer you make the system fit him.  They’ve got 2 seasons at best to get it right with Ronaldo, I’d not be worrying about the tracking back he does, but how I get my other 10 players to give him the platform he needs to score 30 goals.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 30, 2021)

Poor result today, cruising after 30 mins and should've had the game wrapped up.

Poor 2nd half performance, though credit to Brighton, they're a very good side if given the chance.

Still, at least we never got humiliated on our own patch by our fiercest rivals😉


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## Stuart_C (Oct 30, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not sure why the mods edited this.
Seems it’s ok for some to post it & not others 🤷‍♂️
		
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🎻🎻🎻 poor you

Sir sir sir......

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Oct 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			Hey ......................... Stu ................... 

View attachment 39254


*CR7* ....................... you beauty!
		
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🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 any grown man using that to refer a footballer should be stoned to death.


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## Slime (Oct 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 any grow man using that to refer a footballer should be stoned to death.
		
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If you think you're hard enough!


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## Stuart_C (Oct 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			If you think you're hard enough! 

Click to expand...

I'm not claiming to be but I'd enjoy trying 😄😄😉


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think you are a  DM and CM away from a good team.
If he buys them I think you will be top four no problem.
		
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With the money he has spent, is that acceptable though?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			All the noise around pogba seems to be he will see out contract and then move in summer.  It’s one hell of an outlay for nothing in return.
I’ve never understood why they didn’t get Kante from Leicester at the time.

As for Ronaldo, a lot of the podcasts and journos this week been saying he is the problem and doesn’t fit the system… surely with a generational goal scorer you make the system fit him.  They’ve got 2 seasons at best to get it right with Ronaldo, I’d not be worrying about the tracking back he does, but how I get my other 10 players to give him the platform he needs to score 30 goals.
		
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Its no use him getting 30 goals, if the rest dont get many more and you also let in 30-40 goals in a season.

Just see Harry Kane7Spurs of the last few years. Its about how the team perform as a whole, not just one egotist.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 30, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			With the money he has spent, is that acceptable though?
		
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Absolutely not
He needs silverware,and the players know it as well.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Absolutely not
He needs silverware,and the players know it as well.
		
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1. Would you trust him in January with another 100 million to spend?

2. If he doesnt win anything this year, and say finishes 3rd or 4th, do you go into next season with him?


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## Swango1980 (Oct 30, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			1. Would you trust him in January with another 100 million to spend?

2. If he doesnt win anything this year, and say finishes 3rd or 4th, do you go into next season with him?
		
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1. It is hard to know who is buying the players anyway. If Ole bought De Beek I'd be shocked

2. Unlikely, though I'd be shocked if we finished 3rd, or even 4th.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2021)

Fair play to Brighton today, they gave us a hell of a scare.

At 2-0 down they flooded the front line on the break which is a high risk strategy with our normal transition but gave us loads of trouble. At times, they would have it down the wing and 2-3 where breaking their necks to get forward, and overloading our centre defence.


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			With the money he has spent, is that acceptable though?
		
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do you think he has much say in who is bought?


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## pokerjoke (Oct 30, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			1. Would you trust him in January with another 100 million to spend?

2. If he doesnt win anything this year, and say finishes 3rd or 4th, do you go into next season with him?
		
Click to expand...

That’s a tough one
C/l next year is a must for certain 
Can’t see us winning the league or C/L this year,that leaves the FA cup.
20+ points behind the winners this year and it might just be too much.
Also will depend on who’s available.
I believe we are looking for stability,so someone short term is no good,chopping and changing won’t help.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 30, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fair play to Brighton today, they gave us a hell of a scare.

At 2-0 down they flooded the front line on the break which is a high risk strategy with our normal transition but gave us loads of trouble. At times, they would have it down the wing and 2-3 where breaking their necks to get forward, and overloading our centre defence.
		
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Thought a few of your players looked leggy,tired?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			do you think he has much say in who is bought?
		
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Its a fair question. If he doesnt he needs to grow a pair and stop the club buying marketing sensations instead of players.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Thought a few of your players looked leggy,tired?
		
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Agreed, all that running back to the centre spot last week took it out of them.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			With the money he has spent, is that acceptable though?
		
Click to expand...

Not really.
But as I said “ those players are very hard to find”


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 31, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			🎻🎻🎻 poor you

Sir sir sir......

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Self pity 🤷‍♂️😂😂😂


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## Golfmmad (Oct 31, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fair play to Brighton today, they gave us a hell of a scare.

At 2-0 down they flooded the front line on the break which is a high risk strategy with our normal transition but gave us loads of trouble. At times, they would have it down the wing and 2-3 where breaking their necks to get forward, and overloading our centre defence.
		
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Nice to hear a bit of praise for Brighton!
I don't think anyone expected that result.
Especially when looking at the Premier prediction league on here! 😀


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 31, 2021)

So Jeff Stelling is leaving Soccer Saturday at end of season.
Will be interesting to see who his replacement will be.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			So Jeff Stelling is leaving Soccer Saturday at end of season.
Will be interesting to see who his replacement will be.
		
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They say he hasn't been forced out but replacing his entire panel prob forced his decision


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## Fade and Die (Oct 31, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			So Jeff Stelling is leaving Soccer Saturday at end of season.
*Will be interesting to see who his replacement will be*.
		
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Who knows, but she won’t be as good as Jeff. 😄


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Who knows, but she won’t be as good as Jeff. 😄
		
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Long as it's not Karen Carney I think we good


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 31, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			Nice to hear a bit of praise for Brighton!
I don't think anyone expected that result.
Especially when looking at the Premier prediction league on here! 😀
		
Click to expand...

Yep, especially at 2-0, but you had had chances before that as well, so wasn't a given.

One of the bravest performances I've seen at Anfield in a few years coming from behind.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 31, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Long as it's not Karen Carney I think we good
		
Click to expand...

I suppose Alex Scott is out of the question now it’s been revealed she is descended from Slave Traders! 😳

https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/16/alex...-finds-out-ancestor-owned-26-slaves-15434033/


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## 2blue (Oct 31, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			I suppose Alex Scott is out of the question now it’s been revealed she is descended from Slave Traders! 😳

https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/16/alex...-finds-out-ancestor-owned-26-slaves-15434033/

Click to expand...

Food for the Anti-Woke Wallies.....


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## Piece (Oct 31, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Who knows, but she won’t be as good as Jeff. 😄
		
Click to expand...

The guy who does it midweek is good. Jules?


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## Fade and Die (Oct 31, 2021)

2blue said:



			Food for the Anti-Woke Wallies.....  

Click to expand...

Alex Scott I’m afraid has just found out what so many have known all along. Slavery was a stain on humanity but so many people of all races, creeds, nationalities and colour were involved in the barbarity. No one is innocent and no one is solely guilty.👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 31, 2021)

Piece said:



			The guy who does it midweek is good. Jules?
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this, Jules (julian)Warren by the way (okay, I googled it). He has been in training for this day for some time. He has a good rapport with the pundits watching the games, is very good at managing the whole wall of information in a smooth and slick way. We all love Jeff and will miss him but he is a very solid replacement.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454849537542180867
Nice finish


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2021)

Ben Johnson's good form continues .. he is developing into a decent right back for us (can also play anywhere accross the back line)

Good to see


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2021)

Rice adding goals and assists this season ...one of each so far today


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2021)

A red card ?! Really ?


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## Fade and Die (Oct 31, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A red card ?! Really ?
		
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Thought the clothes lining looked more of a red to me.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A red card ?! Really ?
		
Click to expand...

Truly baffled.

The one before that which was reviewed (fore arm in face) was more of a red than that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Thought the clothes lining looked more of a red to me.
		
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Yes - out of the two incidents you could understand if they decided the first one was a red card 

But then it is Coote on the VAR


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## pokerjoke (Oct 31, 2021)

100% red for a forearm smash.
If the ref was seeing the pictures we were how can he see a red card.
Var once he calls the ref to have a look they always act,it seems to me they don’t like to undermine each other.
Killing the game


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## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Truly baffled.

The one before that which was reviewed (fore arm in face) was more of a red than that.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, but we are talking about Chris Kavanagh. The bloke is a walking, talking disaster of a referee, especially when it comes to VAR reviews, which he gets wrong consistently.

He’s one of the worst referees out there.


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## 2blue (Oct 31, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Alex Scott I’m afraid has just found out what so many have known all along. Slavery was a stain on humanity but so many people of all races, creeds, nationalities and colour were involved in the barbarity. No one is innocent and no one is solely guilty.👍
		
Click to expand...

Mmmmmm.....  great let-off for the 'Wallies'


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 31, 2021)

Anyone else get the feeling that if they'd asked the ref to look at the first incident instead of the second he would have given that as a red card instead?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Yeah, but we are talking about Chris Kavanagh. The bloke is a walking, talking disaster of a referee, especially when it comes to VAR reviews, which he gets wrong consistently.

He’s one of the worst referees out there.
		
Click to expand...

He is an abysmal referee


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## 2blue (Oct 31, 2021)

Fornals should be in the stand......  the referring this year is abysmal.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 31, 2021)

2blue said:



			Fornals should be in the stand......  the referring this year is abysmal.
		
Click to expand...

Behave it was a coming together. Not even a yellow really.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2021)

2blue said:



			Fornals should be in the stand......  the referring this year is abysmal.
		
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No he shouldn’t - he was a split second late


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## Swango1980 (Oct 31, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Anyone else get the feeling that if they'd asked the ref to look at the first incident instead of the second he would have given that as a red card instead?
		
Click to expand...

You can virtually guarantee that whatever incident VAR asks the ref to review, the onfield ref will back them. Because, they only ask him to review it if they have a strong feeling he got his original decision wrong. So, if he sticks to his original decision, he is basically calling them wrong, despite having all the camera angles, speeds and time to review the incident. 

So, in effect, it is really the VAR ref making many of the big decisions, not the infield one. In fact, it may be the infield ref is less likely to make a big decision, but instead use VAR as a safety net.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2021)

2blue said:



			Fornals should be in the stand......  the referring this year is abysmal.
		
Click to expand...

For what exactly? Yellow at worst.. only got a yellow because mcginn overreacted


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2021)

I don’t really know the criteria for a goal scoring opportunity now.
Seeing the red cards this week ,and the Non reds forearm smash was shocking.
The Jota one last week .
VAR and the refs are so inconsistent it’s really bad.

Bit harsh the score line on Villa .


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			You can virtually guarantee that whatever incident VAR asks the ref to review, the onfield ref will back them. Because, they only ask him to review it if they have a strong feeling he got his original decision wrong. So, if he sticks to his original decision, he is basically calling them wrong, despite having all the camera angles, speeds and time to review the incident.

So, in effect, it is really the VAR ref making many of the big decisions, not the infield one. In fact, it may be the infield ref is less likely to make a big decision, but instead use VAR as a safety net.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on if the first one is given the second one dosnt happen.
They are supposed to look at serious foul play.
He got away with it because of the advantage law. But he should have gone back to that.


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## Slime (Oct 31, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I don’t really know the criteria for a goal scoring opportunity now.
Seeing the red cards this week ,and the Non reds *forearm smash* was shocking.
The Jota one last week .
VAR and the refs are so inconsistent it’s really bad.

Bit harsh the score line on Villa .
		
Click to expand...

That was not a forearm smash, but it'll do 'til a real one comes along.


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## AmandaJR (Oct 31, 2021)

I too am confused as to what constitutes a clear goal scoring opportunity this season...has the rule changed or the wording somehow? Used to be the attacker was clean through on goal, in control of the ball, no other defenders covering and just the keeper to beat when they're fouled...


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## DaveR (Oct 31, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			So Jeff Stelling is leaving Soccer Saturday at end of season.
Will be interesting to see who his replacement will be.
		
Click to expand...

Black, female, gay or any combination of the 3 to tick the required boxes. Ability is not a factor any more.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 31, 2021)

Just seen a reply of the 4 and a half rolls the Villa player does after the clash with Fournals! 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Oct 31, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Just seen a reply of the 4 and a half rolls the Villa player does after the clash with Fournals! 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...


Marvellous wasnt it


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## fundy (Oct 31, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I too am confused as to what constitutes a clear goal scoring opportunity this season...has the rule changed or the wording somehow? Used to be the attacker was clean through on goal, in control of the ball, no other defenders covering and just the keeper to beat when they're fouled...
		
Click to expand...


2 horror reffing displays back to back again today, just completely inconsistent. Thought Taylor was bad until I watched the later game!


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## Dando (Oct 31, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Black, female, gay or any combination of the 3 to tick the required boxes. Ability is not a factor any more.
		
Click to expand...

You forgot disabled


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## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2021)

Dando said:



			You forgot disabled
		
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you forgot white ankle socks 😂


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## chrisd (Oct 31, 2021)

Dando said:



			You forgot disabled
		
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and a Man U fan !


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2021)

Onwards and upwards

Tough game next week .. the players best be on top form.. may have won today but too many sloppy passes


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2021)

2blue said:



			Mmmmmm.....  great let-off for the 'Wallies' 

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Not so much a let-off for F&D as an own goal by you.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2021)

Slime said:



			That was not a forearm smash, but it'll do 'til a real one comes along.
		
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Elbow to the jaw technically not a smash .
But a head injury the ref is supposed to stop play.
How him and VAR missed that is a joke.
If he blows for a foul the next one dosnt happen.
But they said they could have sent both off.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2021)

chrisd said:



			and a Man U fan !
		
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Gone to far now.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I too am confused as to what constitutes a clear goal scoring opportunity this season...has the rule changed or the wording somehow? Used to be the attacker was clean through on goal, in control of the ball, no other defenders covering and just the keeper to beat when they're fouled...
		
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I would say any premier league striker that is getting past the last man is a goal scoring opportunity.
Most defenders who are online but 10yds away are not catching them.


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## Slime (Oct 31, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would say *any premier league striker that is getting past the last man is a goal scoring opportunity.*
Most defenders who are online but 10yds away are not catching them.
		
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Are you including Harry Kane in this?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2021)

Slime said:



			Are you including Harry Kane in this?
		
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Kane is usually only just past the opposition’s DM so not an issue.
But if he ventured to the CBS shoulder then yes.
He is still a great striker just playing pants atm.


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## 4LEX (Oct 31, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			With the formation Utd played today, I was thinking it could spell reduced game time for likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Martial, as Ole will not be able to have as many fast attacking players on pitch at same time.

For first time today, a player that has not even entered my head until now, Pogba. Where the hell does it leave him? His quality will be perfect for someone out there, but it seems clear he has just bot done it consistently at Utd. And Ole certainly does not seem to be able to figure it out, like JM before him. I'd have not lost sleep if Utd got rid of him before when his agent was being noisy, and I'll not cry if we sell him in near future.
		
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The system Utd played doesn't really suit anyone bar the centre backs and Shaw. AWB is useless going forward and it takes away Utd's biggest assets, wide forwards with pace. I think any decent side and Utd would've lost yesterday, it was just about Ronaldo's brilliance and Spurs being gutless and useless. It had panic tactic written all over it.

Ronaldo has taken so much stick but he's been brilliant. You simply play wingers to do his running and supply the crosses, especially in the air. It's amazing Ole picks Greenwood who is the most selfish player in the league who does nothing but get the ball, cut in and shoot instead of Sancho. Greenwood on the right totally upsets the flow of the side. He should be used as a 9 off the bench from now on. Inverted wingers are pointless with Ronaldo upfront. 

Regarding Pogba, he'll either get a new deal on £400k a week and become even lazier and disinterested, like Ozil at Arsenal. Or he'll leave on a free. It's 50/50 now as the board would look stupid to lose a £90m played for nothing, yet on the other hand giving him a huge new contract when he doesn't add much to the side would also be a bad move. It's a shame he think he is an attacking midfielder, if he had the right attitude he would be the best box to box midfielder in the world. He's got power, strength, touch, passing ability, can tackle and score goals. He just seems happy to amble around in second gear making hollywood passes and giving the ball away.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The system Utd played doesn't really suit anyone bar the centre backs and Shaw. AWB is useless going forward and it takes away Utd's biggest assets, wide forwards with pace. I think any decent side and Utd would've lost yesterday, it was just about Ronaldo's brilliance and Spurs being gutless and useless. It had panic tactic written all over it.

Ronaldo has taken so much stick but he's been brilliant. You simply play wingers to do his running and supply the crosses, especially in the air. It's amazing Ole picks Greenwood who is the most selfish player in the league who does nothing but get the ball, cut in and shoot instead of Sancho. Greenwood on the right totally upsets the flow of the side. He should be used as a 9 off the bench from now on. Inverted wingers are pointless with Ronaldo upfront.

Regarding Pogba, he'll either get a new deal on £400k a week and become even lazier and disinterested, like Ozil at Arsenal. Or he'll leave on a free. It's 50/50 now as the board would look stupid to lose a £90m played for nothing, yet on the other hand giving him a huge new contract when he doesn't add much to the side would also be a bad move. It's a shame he think he is an attacking midfielder, if he had the right attitude he would be the best box to box midfielder in the world. He's got power, strength, touch, passing ability, can tackle and score goals. He just seems happy to amble around in second gear making hollywood passes and giving the ball away.
		
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The brilliance of that formation is you don't actually need defenders as wing backs 

Awb could be replaced by Sancho for example


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## 4LEX (Oct 31, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The brilliance of that formation is you don't actually need defenders as wing backs

Awb could be replaced by Sancho for example
		
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That's true against lesser teams but any good side would destroy Utd down that side. Utd aren't blessed for pace at centreback. Why sign one of the best wingers/wide forwards and play him at wing back? And why should a huge club with attacking DNA be playing 3 centrebacks in the first place? The squad is set up to play 433 or 4231 if well coached.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2021)

4LEX said:



			That's true against lesser teams but any good side would destroy Utd down that side. Utd aren't blessed for pace at centreback. Why sign one of the best wingers/wide forwards and play him at wing back? And why should a huge club with attacking DNA be playing 3 centrebacks in the first place? The squad is set up to play 433 or 4231 if well coached.
		
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This isn't 1999 anymore. 3 at the back with wing backs is a modern formation 

Chelsea play it and their table topping. Playing good football aswell


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 31, 2021)

4LEX said:



			That's true against lesser teams but any good side would destroy Utd down that side. Utd aren't blessed for pace at centreback. Why sign one of the best wingers/wide forwards and play him at wing back? And why should a huge club with attacking DNA be playing 3 centrebacks in the first place? The squad is set up to play 433 or 4231 if well coached.
		
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Totally agree, but would also like to see them go back to an old school attacking 442;

De Gea/Henderson

Wan Bissaka
Varane
McGuire
Shaw

Sancho
Fernandes
Fred/McTominay/Matic/VD Beek
Rashford/Greenwood/Lingard

Cavani/Greenwood
Ronaldo

Go back to the attacking Man Utd teams that I got used to watching under Ferguson when they had Giggs/Beckham/Scholes/Keane as their midfield four and make other teams worry about going forward as they knew what Utd could do if they left them any space in behind.


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## 4LEX (Oct 31, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			This isn't 1999 anymore. 3 at the back with wing backs is a modern formation

Chelsea play it and their table topping. Playing good football aswell
		
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I'm abit of a football geek and know a lot about tactics, formations and history of good sides/managers. Ferguson achieved most of his late success parking the bus in tough away games with 451. The difference is though he would take the handbrake off in most games and had a clear way of playing.

352 in the hands of a balanced squad and a world class manager is a good formation, as we've seen from Conte over the last few years. The only reason it's working at Chelsea is they have two of the best attacking full backs in the country and a balanced midfield. Even then I'd argue they've not been that impressive yet, more machine like. The same formation under Ole is playing 7 defensive minded players and hoping Bruno or Ronaldo come up with something. That's 3 years and £500m spent to be a far more negative and unbalanced side than they were under Mourinho.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 31, 2021)

2blue said:



			Mmmmmm.....  great let-off for the 'Wallies' 

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I know it’s frustrating when you can’t blame old whitey every single time. 👍👍


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## Fade and Die (Oct 31, 2021)

Ahh bugger…….☹️

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ad-coachs-future-under-consideration-by-board


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## adam6177 (Nov 1, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Ahh bugger…….☹️

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ad-coachs-future-under-consideration-by-board

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Just listening to some pundits debating Nuno and spurs.... I think it's grossly unfair to be calling for someone's head after 10 games, especially after what he took over.

I can't help feeling that the fans calling for his head need a reality check. That squad is a 5th/6th place finish quality... Can they really expect more? I think some perspective on where they are and the quality they actually have is needed.

I wonder if they got spoiled a bit by getting to the CL final and making some progression... With one of the best strikers on the planet at his peak at the time.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A red card ?! Really ?
		
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Just saw that Dion Dublin was convinced the red card was correct for stopping a clear goal scoring incident. Gary Lineker and J Redknapp the opposite view, as ball was not running towards goal. It just goes to show the subjective nature of football for many big decisions.

Problem is, when you have ONE guy on VAR, it can't deal with subjectivity very well. In their mind they may be adamant one way or the other, but doesn't take into account other views. So, the VAR ref may be positive in his mind the ref has made a mistake, but ultimately they could still have the minority view. And, despite their training, I can't help but wonder if their decisions are influenced by right or wrong decisions that are currently in the headlines, due to what happened the day before.

Mind you, virtually everyone seems to agree the elbow to the face was a clear red. The more I see it, the worse it looks. It is weird that the VAR overlooked that. I suppose it could have been 2 reds, because the second incident would still have happened assuming ref played advantage.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Just saw that Dion Dublin was convinced the red card was correct for stopping a clear goal scoring incident. Gary Lineker and J Redknapp the opposite view, as ball was not running towards goal. It just goes to show the subjective nature of football for many big decisions.

Problem is, when you have ONE guy on VAR, it can't deal with subjectivity very well. In their mind they may be adamant one way or the other, but doesn't take into account other views. So, the VAR ref may be positive in his mind the ref has made a mistake, but ultimately they could still have the minority view. And, despite their training, I can't help but wonder if their decisions are influenced by right or wrong decisions that are currently in the headlines, due to what happened the day before.

Mind you, virtually everyone seems to agree the elbow to the face was a clear red. The more I see it, the worse it looks. It is weird that the VAR overlooked that. I suppose it could have been 2 reds, because the second incident would still have happened assuming ref played advantage.
		
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I don't think you can have two reds, as even with advantage wouldn't it get pulled back for serious foul play and then red and a free kick from there?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't think you can have two reds, as even with advantage wouldn't it get pulled back for serious foul play and then red and a free kick from there?
		
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I wouldn't have thought so. Had a goal been scored, no way ref would disallow goal just to give the red card.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2021)

Said on MOTD they can send both off.
If you play advantage you can go back after to book somebody so can’t see why you can’t red card them as well.
Deffo red the elbow ,but I am 50/50 on the other one.
Posh poor from the ref and VAR as play is supossed to stop for a head injury


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Said on MOTD they can send both off.
If you play advantage you can go back after to book somebody so can’t see why you can’t red card them as well.
Deffo red the elbow ,but I am 50/50 on the other one.
Posh poor from the ref and VAR as play is supossed to stop for a head injury
		
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All these updates after teams get done over 

Barca in the champs final against arsenal got a perfectly good goal disallowed to bring it back to send the keeper off for a foul


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## Fade and Die (Nov 1, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Said on MOTD they can send both off.
If you play advantage you can go back after to book somebody so can’t see why you can’t red card them as well.
Deffo red the elbow ,but I am 50/50 on the other one.
Posh poor from the ref and VAR as play is supossed to stop for a head injury
		
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Yes I saw that on MOTD2. To be honest Villa we’re lucky not to be down to 8 men at the end as the wrestling tackle on Antonio when we broke for the 4th goal could have easily been a red.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			All these updates after teams get done over

Barca in the champs final against arsenal got a perfectly good goal disallowed to bring it back to send the keeper off for a foul
		
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I think that’s the problem.
They have messed about with so many rules the last couple of seasons that nothing is black and white anymore.
Even the “ experts” disagree


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Yes I saw that on MOTD2. To be honest Villa we’re lucky not to be down to 8 men at the end as the wrestling tackle on Antonio when we broke for the 4th goal could have easily been a red.
		
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You only have to look at the weekends cards the One on Saha and Abamayang were identical yet red and yellow.
So even the refs don’t know.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Just listening to some pundits debating Nuno and spurs.... I think it's grossly unfair to be calling for someone's head after 10 games, especially after what he took over.

I can't help feeling that the fans calling for his head need a reality check. That squad is a 5th/6th place finish quality... Can they really expect more? I think some perspective on where they are and the quality they actually have is needed.

I wonder if they got spoiled a bit by getting to the CL final and making some progression... With one of the best strikers on the planet at his peak at the time.
		
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You have summed it up pretty well 

Spurs reached a CL final and had a couple of good finishes - that allowed them to have delusions of grandeur - they had a manager who had them playing well beyond their abilities - and then they sacked him 😂

Spurs sacking Pochettino must be close to being one the worst decisions in a decade 

If they sack Santos then I have no idea who they will be able to get - the podcast crew were talking about the likes of Conte and Zidane


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You have summed it up pretty well

Spurs reached a CL final and had a couple of good finishes - that allowed them to have delusions of grandeur - they had a manager who had them playing well beyond their abilities - and then they sacked him 😂

Spurs sacking Pochettino must be close to being one the worst decisions in a decade

If they sack Santos then I have no idea who they will be able to get - the podcast crew were talking about the likes of Conte and Zidane
		
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Conte and Zidane linked to nearly any team that could potentially compete for anything as low as Europa spot. Spurs keep getting labelled by some as a big team, especially in this country. I wonder what people outside the UK think of them?

Surely, compared to our thinking of trams from other countries, they are not  Real Madrid or Barcelona, they are a Valencia. They are not a Juve, they are a Fiorentina. Not a PSG, they are a Monaco. Not a Bayern, they are a Wolfsberg.

Apologies for some comparisons, not an avid follower of European leagues. My point is, and agreement with others, do foreign managers just see them as a steady mid table team, every now and then pushing for Champions League, if they play brilliantly and the big teams have a bad season. Therefore, why would the big managers be drawn to Spurs when it is likely a bigger team will come along? Especially with their main man Kane out of form, out of confidence and wanting to leave.

They will probably be best going for an up and coming young manager at a smallish club, showing potential and wishing to climb the ladder. Someone that is good, but not quite on the radar of the biggest teams.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Context and Zidane linked to nearly any team that could potentially compete for anything as low as Europa spot. Spurs keep getting labelled by some as a big team, especially in this country. I wonder what people outside the UK think of them?

Surely, compared to our thinking of trams from other countries, they are not  Real Madrid or Barcelona, they are a Valencia. They are not a Juve, they are a Fiorentina. Not a PSG, they are a Monaco. Not a Bayern, they are a Wolfsberg.

Apologies for some comparisons, not an avid follower of European leagues. My point is, and agreement with others, do foreign managers just see them as a steady mid table team, every now and then pushing for Champions League, if they play brilliantly and the big teams have a bad season. Therefore, why would the big managers be drawn to Spurs when it is likely a bigger team will come along? Especially with their main man Kane out of form, out of confidence and wanting to leave.

They will probably be best going for an up and coming young manager at a smallish club, showing potential and wishing to climb the ladder. Someone that is good, but not quite on the radar of the biggest teams.
		
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Unfortunately it won’t be about football it will be about money.
That’s the PL now.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Unfortunately it won’t be about football it will be about money.
That’s the PL now.
		
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Yeah, can't argue with that. And I guess the Premier League is much more in the spotlight than other leagues, so probably suits clubs like Spurs in terms of global profile. Perhaps the draw of London is another thing not to be overlooked in some cases.

Though, I still always wonder that if a top coach from the UK (if we had one) had the option to go to a mega rich mid table team in another country, I still like to think they'd more likely be drawn to a big European team if they wanted to manage outside the UK. After all, the big teams can pretty much pay the big salaries. If Pepe was just leaving Bayern now, and he could go to United, City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle or Everton, and be paid handsomely at any, I doubt he'd choose the last 3.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Nuno been sacked

Lets watch the circus in action again after the summers recruitment merry go round


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## AliMc (Nov 1, 2021)

Nuno sacked


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2021)

And now they sack him 😂😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Nuno been sacked

Lets watch the circus in action again after the summers recruitment merry go round
		
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Stupid after 10 games.
I think the Kane debacle has unsettled the whole club.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Stupid after 10 games.
I think the Kane debacle has unsettled the whole club.
		
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Citys transfer process this summer done a pretty good job of unsettling 3 clubs lol


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## GB72 (Nov 1, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Stupid after 10 games.
I think the Kane debacle has unsettled the whole club.
		
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If I was being truely cynical (and remember I am only a casual football follower), I would see Kane as the main reason for this. He was not banging in goals under Nuno and so the hopes to getting in over £100 million in January were disapppearing so a quick decision needed to try and get him firing again and secure that big transfer fee.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 1, 2021)

Both reds in my opinion.

I said a few weeks ago. Villa's only game plan does seem to be to kick (or elbow) the other team around. 
I did particularly enjoy someone putting the horrible little s*** McGinn on his back side as he went wading in giving it the big I am.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			If I was being truely cynical (and remember I am only a casual football follower), I would see Kane as the main reason for this. He was not banging in goals under Nuno and so the hopes to getting in over £100 million in January were disapppearing so a quick decision needed to try and get him firing again and secure that big transfer fee.
		
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Probably. Some might argue Nuno is responsible for not getting best out of Kane, although difficult argument to make when it was clear Kane didn't want to be there, and is only there because of his contract. Harder to play with passion and desire compared to being at a club you truly love and want your future to be there.


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

I don't think any of our real problems are Nuno's fault, he inherited a bit of a show. But, a modicum of improvement probably wasn't too much to ask, yet we have legitimately got worse. The issue now is, he was never the right man in the first place, but we're in exactly the same situation as we were when we were forced to hire him before. Conte is the favourite but I see no reason why he wouldn't tell us to sod off again. I hope it's Fonseca or Potter because the rest of the list makes pretty poor reading - but they both fell through before so it will likely be the same again. If it's Howe then I'm done with football, full stop.


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## Piece (Nov 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You have summed it up pretty well

Spurs reached a CL final and had a couple of good finishes - that allowed them to have delusions of grandeur - they had a manager who had them playing well beyond their abilities - and then they sacked him 😂

*Spurs sacking Pochettino must be close to being one the worst decisions in a decade*

If they sack Santos then I have no idea who they will be able to get - the podcast crew were talking about the likes of Conte and Zidane
		
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No, because if you remember they were, and had, spectacularly unwound at that time. They were leaking goals for fun (Bayern CL game as an example) and most agreed he had to go. Most of his reign was great but he couldn't take or maintain Spurs at the next level (or maybe Spurs very much over achieved).


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Both reds in my opinion.

I said a few weeks ago. Villa's only game plan does seem to be to kick (or elbow) the other team around.
I did particularly enjoy someone putting the horrible little s*** McGinn on his back side as he went wading in giving it the big I am.
		
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Brilliant to see Bowen just barge him down.


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

Piece said:



			No, because if you remember they were, and had, spectacularly unwound at that time. They were leaking goals for fun (Bayern CL game as an example) and most agreed he had to go. Most of his reign was great but he couldn't take or maintain Spurs at the next level (or maybe Spurs very much over achieved).
		
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I really believe he was just mentally jaded from getting us overperforming despite minimum investment for several years. He needed a break but you can't really give your manager a sabbatical in top flight football, so we sacked him instead. It's no accident he then had a year off after that.


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## Piece (Nov 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Nuno been sacked

Lets watch the circus in action again after the summers recruitment merry go round
		
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I wonder if Jamie O'Hara, Chris Sutton and other shock-jocks will call Spurs a "joke club" for sacking a manager after a few games? Or is that reserved for Watford only?


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2021)

Gutted to see Nuno leave, wanted him there for the quarters of the league cup give us a real chance


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2021)

Piece said:



			I wonder if Jamie O'Hara, Chris Sutton and other shock-jocks will call Spurs a "joke club" for sacking a manager after a few games? Or is that reserved for Watford only?
		
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Well considering Watford do it religiously I don't think it's comparable


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## Bazzatron (Nov 1, 2021)

He was never going to be a good fit at Spurs. Needed a rest after not seeing his family for 18 months but obviously couldn't turn the chance down. Hope he comes back and starts playing the way we did in his first 2 years. Was great football to watch.


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## Piece (Nov 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I really believe he was just mentally jaded from getting us overperforming despite minimum investment for several years. He needed a break but you can't really give your manager a sabbatical in top flight football, so we sacked him instead. It's no accident he then had a year off after that.
		
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Yeah, I can see that. It worked out well for Poch though!


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## Piece (Nov 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Well considering Watford do it religiously I don't think it's comparable
		
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Nuno was top of league 7 games ago. I reckon that's out-done even Watford.


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## Bazzatron (Nov 1, 2021)

Piece said:



			I wonder if Jamie O'Hara, Chris Sutton and other shock-jocks will call Spurs a "joke club" for sacking a manager after a few games? Or is that reserved for Watford only?
		
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Jamie Ohara accused the players of not trying, if anyone knows about zero effort it's him.


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Jamie Ohara accused the players of not trying, if anyone knows about zero effort it's him.
		
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I don't know how he's ended up with air time to talk about football. His career was an abject failure, he could have held down a position in our midfield but he ended up as a mercenary for Billericay. What a joke of a man.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 1, 2021)

It’s no wonder Nuno’s gone. He a player who didn’t want to be there or be allowed to drop him.
No doubt like the Man Utd fans we will now hear the Tottenham way spiel.......
Im just glad those heavy leather balls are played no more.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2021)

This makes the managerial situation even more interesting. 

Newcastle looking for a manger, they now have a pot of cash to tempt the big names.

Spurs looking for a new manager

Utd might be looking for a new manager (they will certainly be looking right now even if they don't act on it)

2 definitely on the lookout, a 3rd possibly, all looking in the same talent pool.


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## Rlburnside (Nov 1, 2021)

Always going to be tough for Nuno being 5 th choice for job , not surprised he’s been sacked especially after Levy said he wants to go back to our attacking style of play and ending up with the complete opposite 

Dreadful run of defeats I was never a fan of Jose but some of the tactics and performances of the players were even worse than that. 

Silver lining is looks like Levy has Conte lined up.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 1, 2021)

Villa are an absolute joke at the moment.

That is all.


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Always going to be tough for Nuno being 5 th choice for job , not surprised he’s been sacked especially after Levy said he wants to go back to our attacking style of play and ending up with the complete opposite

Dreadful run of defeats I was never a fan of Jose but some of the tactics and performances of the players were even worse than that.

*Silver lining is looks like Levy has Conte lined up.*

Click to expand...

Does it? Because it looked like that before, then he told us to sod off. He doesn't work without the promise of money being spent on the squad - I'm pretty sure that's where it fell apart last time.


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## Billysboots (Nov 1, 2021)

The cynic in me thinks Spurs have acted now so they can make an appointment before United start a search for a new manager.


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The cynic in me thinks Spurs have acted now so they can make an appointment before United start a search for a new manager.
		
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If by some miracle we do get Conte, United will be absolutely kicking themselves.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Citys transfer process this summer done a pretty good job of unsettling 3 clubs lol
		
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That's what untold wealth and "leverage" does to the clubs without the mega wealth, something often overlooked.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If by some miracle we do get Conte, United will be absolutely kicking themselves. 

Click to expand...

No they won’t
Conte is 2 years perfect for Spurs and I can see that happening.
Don’t for a minute believe Utd want him at all.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 1, 2021)




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## Rlburnside (Nov 1, 2021)

L



Orikoru said:



			Does it? Because it looked like that before, then he told us to sod off. He doesn't work without the promise of money being spent on the squad - I'm pretty sure that's where it fell apart last time.
		
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Looking more likely offered him 18 month contract 🤞🤞


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



View attachment 39285

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Her defence wasn’t very good though.


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			L

Looking more likely offered him 18 month contract 🤞🤞
		
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The problem with Conte is he needs assurance that money will be spent. That's why he left Inter and why he wouldn't sign with us in summer. Perhaps if he does sign it simply means Kane will be sold in January and the money spent on the team. Might be the best thing for it now - we've already been linked to Lautaro Martinez who played for Conte at Inter.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The problem with Conte is he needs assurance that money will be spent. That's why he left Inter and why he wouldn't sign with us in summer. Perhaps if he does sign it simply means Kane will be sold in January and the money spent on the team. Might be the best thing for it now - we've already been linked to Lautaro Martinez who played for Conte at Inter.
		
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Wanna swap Kane for Pogba?

Mind you, I'd be perfectly happy with Ronaldo and Cavani if they can stay fit enough for the next 2-3 years. Age is just a number.


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## Rlburnside (Nov 1, 2021)

A



Orikoru said:



			Does it? Because it looked like that before, then he told us to sod off. He doesn't work without the promise of money being spent on the squad - I'm pretty sure that's where it fell apart last time.
		
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Also Paratica  has very good contacts and I think it will help pave the way for Conte coming this time.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Rumours that it will soon be Good Ebening on the Toon


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 1, 2021)

Conte to Spurs


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The problem with Conte is he needs assurance that money will be spent. That's why he left Inter and why he wouldn't sign with us in summer. Perhaps if he does sign it simply means Kane will be sold in January and the money spent on the team. Might be the best thing for it now - we've already been linked to Lautaro Martinez who played for Conte at Inter.
		
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And on current form who will buy Kane? If you ever were going to buy him you’d need to buy Son as well, in fact you’d buy Son in preference to Kane.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And on current form who will buy Kane? If you ever were going to buy him you’d need to buy Son as well, in fact you’d buy Son in preference to Kane.
		
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still only 1 option and theyre still not gonna pay the price Levy wants as was proved this summer


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			A

Also Paratica  has very good contacts and I think it will help pave the way for Conte coming this time.
		
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What? It was him negotiating the first time as well.


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			still only 1 option and theyre still not gonna pay the price Levy wants as was proved this summer
		
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Pretty sure the price will be lower this time, ha. They'll still buy him, it's not like their season has been all peaches and cream so far either. They're five points off the pace and could well throw money at the problem.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Pretty sure the price will be lower this time, ha. They'll still buy him, it's not like their season has been all peaches and cream so far either. They're five points off the pace and could well throw money at the problem.
		
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i dont doubt they will throw money at the problem, either january or next summer, whether theyll throw it spurs way now though and at what price would love to be a fly on a wall of any discussions


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			i dont doubt they will throw money at the problem, either january or next summer, whether theyll throw it spurs way now though and at what price would love to be a fly on a wall of any discussions
		
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I'm sure they'll make something work. 80 million plus a half decent centre back, something like that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2021)

So what exactly is Conte going to give them that Mourinho couldn’t 🤷‍♂️

A lot of the clubs that are trying to get into that top 4 appear to be looking at quick fixes 

We were languishing around mid table when Klopp arrived and had some shocking  players sprinkled amongst some gems 

It was always going to take time for the club to build back up as well as some very good stuff in the transfer market 

I don’t think the likes of Spurs and their fans etc have the paitence to allow a manager to build and I’m pretty certain that Conte isn’t a building manager as well - just smacks of trying to get a quick fix and using a plaster over a broken leg


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sure they'll make something work. 80 million plus a half decent centre back, something like that.
		
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thats almost the 120m you turned down in the summer lol, wont be offering that much

think id want a midfielder not  centre back from citys resources too


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			And on current form who will buy Kane? If you ever were going to buy him you’d need to buy Son as well, in fact you’d buy Son in preference to Kane.
		
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I don't think his form is an issue, this is Kane. He's never been a man one team, if the team is playing well he scores goals. If the team can't get him the ball, he won't. Nothing has really changed on that front.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what exactly is Conte going to give them that Mourinho couldn’t 🤷‍♂️

A lot of the clubs that are trying to get into that top 4 appear to be looking at quick fixes 

We were languishing around mid table when Klopp arrived and had some shocking  players sprinkled amongst some gems 

It was always going to take time for the club to build back up as well as some very good stuff in the transfer market 

I don’t think the likes of Spurs and their fans etc have the paitence to allow a manager to build and I’m pretty certain that Conte isn’t a building manager as well - just smacks of trying to get a quick fix and using a plaster over a broken leg
		
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things change and move on Phil, far more clubs financially able to compete compared to even few years ago, theres definitely a dont get left too far behind mentality at almost all clubs of late, be grateful this came when it did not 5 years earlier


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sure they'll make something work. 80 million plus a half decent centre back, something like that.
		
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I heard pep doesn't return .. he moves on 

Plus he was vocal how difficult levy is to deal with


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I heard pep doesn't return .. he moves on

Plus he was vocal *how difficult levy is to deal with*

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Well that isn't news.


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## Rlburnside (Nov 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			What? It was him negotiating the first time as well. 

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Yes of course but Conte snubbed us for whatever reason the first time and it must have helped having Paratici paving the way for the deal to go through. 

If it happens 🤞


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes of course but Conte snubbed us for whatever reason the first time and it must have helped having Paratici paving the way for the deal to go through.

If it happens 🤞
		
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Well yeah, fingers crossed we pull it out of the bag, because not many other options look appealing. Conte favours wing backs and we have the squad for it - the likes of Reguilon, Royal, Doherty, all suited to wing back. I was baffled why Nuno never tried it given that it worked for him at Wolves.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 1, 2021)

Manager of the month for August gets sacked on 1st November. That can't have happened very often.


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2021)

On the Sky scores app they've listed Max Kilman as "Maximilian Kilman" which is just SO much better. He should go by that all the time, makes him sound like an awesome Bond villain.


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## chrisd (Nov 1, 2021)

Just glad that we got Viera, we interviewed Nuno before Viera pwew!


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2021)

Good start by the co commentator.' Gbamin should fill the gap left by Idrissa Gueye '. Errmmm, Allan 🙄


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Good start by the co commentator.' Gbamin should fill the gap left by Idrissa Gueye '. Errmmm, Allan 🙄
		
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looks like more than one gap that needs filling so far!!!!


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## nickjdavis (Nov 1, 2021)

VAR is just too damned slow!!!!

Wolves "score" at 14 mins and 31 secs. The TV is showing a replay within 20 secs that shows the goal was offside. VAR then comes up with a screenshot with the lines drawn fully 1 minute after the ball crosses the line....it then takes the ref a further 30 seconds to confirm the no-goal decision. Finally the game restarts 40 seconds further down the line. 2 minutes and 40 seconds wasted....should have taken no more than 30 seconds.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			VAR is just too damned slow!!!!

Wolves "score" at 14 mins and 31 secs. The TV is showing a replay within 20 secs that shows the goal was offside. VAR then comes up with a screenshot with the lines drawn fully 1 minute after the ball crosses the line....it then takes the ref a further 30 seconds to confirm the no-goal decision. Finally the game restarts 40 seconds further down the line. 2 minutes and 40 seconds wasted....should have taken no more than 30 seconds.
		
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one in Serie A the other night was all but 6 minutes!!!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			looks like more than one gap that needs filling so far!!!!
		
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It's all gaps at this point. We are all wrong 😳


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			On the Sky scores app they've listed Max Kilman as "Maximilian Kilman" which is just SO much better. He should go by that all the time, makes him sound like an awesome Bond villain.
		
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The Bond villain puts the wolves one nil up


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## IainP (Nov 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			On the Sky scores app they've listed Max Kilman as "Maximilian Kilman" which is just SO much better. He should go by that all the time, makes him sound like an awesome Bond villain.
		
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For those who are a little older...


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2021)

If Rafa waits until half time to change this then we could be 3 or 4 down.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2021)

There is something extra satisfying whenever I see Jiminez has scored


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If Rafa waits until half time to change this then we could be 3 or 4 down.
		
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not got a huge amount of options on the bench has he, what do you want to see?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			not got a huge amount of options on the bench has he, what do you want to see?
		
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I don't think he needs to change the personnel, you are right about the options. It's more about how they are set up. We have been way too passive, stood off Wolves, let them play. When we have had possession there has been no zip, we haven't moved up as a team. Richarlison had just had balls humped up to him. The centre half hasn't had to break sweat. He can win headers from 40yd balls all night.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think he needs to change the personnel, you are right about the options. It's more about how they are set up. We have been way too passive, stood off Wolves, let them play. When we have had possession there has been no zip, we haven't moved up as a team. Richarlison had just had balls humped up to him. The centre half hasn't had to break sweat. He can win headers from 40yd balls all night.
		
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turns out Fabian Delph is the answer


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## Reemul (Nov 1, 2021)

Shows how poor our squad is, no Dacoure, DCL, Mina and Digne and we have zero options.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455273968051625987
Not had the best of starts


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			turns out Fabian Delph is the answer
		
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😄. Let's hope he stays fit for more than 40 minutes.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2021)

Did Gbamin get injured? Never heard of him, but just saw Everton bought him for £25m, he played 2 or 3 games, and then pretty much been injured for 2 years. Or, maybe he is just rusty.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			😄. Let's hope he stays fit for more than 40 minutes.
		
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already 2nd fav for a yellow card after 10m mins


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Did Gbamin get injured? Never heard of him, but just saw Everton bought him for £25m, he played 2 or 3 games, and then pretty much been injured for 2 years. Or, maybe he is just rusty.
		
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I think he was just off the pace. You have nailed it really,  he came, got injured, barely played. First match he has played since August 2019 apparently.

He could have done with some cup games to play in and find his feet a little.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Great to see Iwobi repaying that tfr fee 

some miss from Trincao


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

I mean how incompetent can a referee be if that is not a yellow card (at least)  for Holgate?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 1, 2021)

I had to mute that Carney, but there was no way I was missing the boooooooos from the away end at half time 🤭🤭


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			I mean how incompetent can a referee be if that is not a yellow card (at least)  for Holgate?
		
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He got away with one first half as well.

We got what we deserved after that first half. Second half at least we showed something.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He got away with one first half as well.

We got what we deserved after that first half. Second half at least we showed something.
		
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Id be checking to see when Mina, Doucoure and DCL are due back, even Spuds will fancy their chances at the weekend on that showing!


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Great to see Iwobi repaying that tfr fee 

Click to expand...

Greece has more chance of paying off it's national debt.


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## Bazzatron (Nov 1, 2021)

Where's that passport?


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## DaveR (Nov 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I had to mute that Carney, but there was no way I was missing the boooooooos from the away end at half time 🤭🤭
		
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Yep  she is dreadful.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Id be checking to see when Mina, Doucoure and DCL are due back, even Spuds will fancy their chances at the weekend on that showing!
		
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Add Digne to that list, very important to us. We don't have a back up left back and that shows pretty clearly. Godfrey's plays as cover but gets exposed, square peg, round hole.

We have a very good 13 but once injuries kick in we are exposed. 

I'm disappointed that Nuno has gone. The last thing we need right now is a new Spurs. I want old Spurs please 😁


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## Orikoru (Nov 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Add Digne to that list, very important to us. We don't have a back up left back and that shows pretty clearly. Godfrey's plays as cover but gets exposed, square peg, round hole.

We have a very good 13 but once injuries kick in we are exposed.

I'm disappointed that Nuno has gone. The last thing we need right now is a new Spurs. I want old Spurs please 😁
		
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Don't worry, it'll probably end up being Mason in charge until at least January anyway.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Don't worry, it'll probably end up being Mason in charge until at least January anyway. 

Click to expand...

There may be 20 million reasons why Conte accepts an 18 month contract and be in place for the weekend


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## Orikoru (Nov 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There may be 20 million reasons why Conte accepts an 18 month contract and be in place for the weekend 

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Ok it turns out I was wrong. We must be giving him stupid money to get him here this time, yeah. 

Given his propensity for wing backs, I'll hazard a guess at what the team might look like going forward..

Lloris
Tanganga - Romero - Dier
Emerson - Hojbjerg - Skipp - Reguilon
Ndombele
Kane - Son​Should work really.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Ok it turns out I was wrong. We must be giving him stupid money to get him here this time, yeah.

Given his propensity for wing backs, I'll hazard a guess at what the team might look like going forward..

Lloris
Tanganga - Romero - Dier
Emerson - Hojbjerg - Skipp - Reguilon
Ndombele
Kane - Son​Should work really. 

Click to expand...

Still no place for Doherty in there?

Most the spuds I know are saying nothing changes until levy is gone.. failed poch, failed Jose , no proper investment or a clear direction


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2021)

[QUOTE="Orikoru, post: 2417295, member
Should work really. [/QUOTE]
Hopefully not by the weekend 

Strong rumours of Emery to Newcastle. That seems an odd one.


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## Orikoru (Nov 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Still no place for Doherty in there?

Most the spuds I know are saying nothing changes until levy is gone.. failed poch, failed Jose , no proper investment or a clear direction
		
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Well we just spent £26mil on Emerson so I expect him to be first choice. I do think Doherty will do better now though, in his cup/rotation appearances. He was never a right back so buying him and playing him as one was stupid. He's a wing back through and through, so should look a little better in Conte's system.

We have to bring in players in January. I don't believe Conte would have bothered signing without assurance that that will happen. Downside being you probably have to sell Kane to fund any substantial outlay. Then again that's only a downside if he starts scoring league goals in the next two months.


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2021)

On the plus side you get 2 mths of being linked with pretty much every player in Serie A. Franck Kessie seems a good place to start....


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## GB72 (Nov 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well we just spent £26mil on Emerson so I expect him to be first choice. I do think Doherty will do better now though, in his cup/rotation appearances. He was never a right back so buying him and playing him as one was stupid. He's a wing back through and through, so should look a little better in Conte's system.

We have to bring in players in January. I don't believe Conte would have bothered signing without assurance that that will happen. Downside being you probably have to sell Kane to fund any substantial outlay. Then again that's only a downside if he starts scoring league goals in the next two months.
		
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I guess the question will be as to whether you can actually sell Kane. Really not sure who would come in for him if City do not. Not sure anyone else either has the funding, needs a stiker or is an attractive prospect for Kane to move to. Even if City do come back in, I can see that offer being well below the £100 million mark now based on form and based on them potentially being the only offer likely to come in January and with bigger names on the market in the summer.


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## Orikoru (Nov 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			On the plus side you get 2 mths of being linked with pretty much every player in Serie A. Franck Kessie seems a good place to start....
		
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Lautaro Martinez as Kane's replacement apparently.


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Lautaro Martinez as Kane's replacement apparently.
		
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Brozovic, Skriniar, Barella, Vlahovic etc etc

They have told him Levy has the purse strings yeah


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## Orikoru (Nov 2, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I guess the question will be as to whether you can actually sell Kane. Really not sure who would come in for him if City do not. Not sure anyone else either has the funding, needs a stiker or is an attractive prospect for Kane to move to. Even if City do come back in, I can see that offer being well below the £100 million mark now based on form and based on them potentially being the only offer likely to come in January and with bigger names on the market in the summer.
		
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I agree, but Conte & Paratici might be tempted by a player swap deal this time. 75-80 mil plus Laporte or whoever else isn't playing much. I'd say Sterling but he probably doesn't want to play for us. Then again neither would Laporte.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455273968051625987
Not had the best of starts
		
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3months is a long time for chest pains.
Hopefully he’ll be ok.
There’s more important things than football 👍🏻


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## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well we just spent £26mil on Emerson so I expect him to be first choice. I do think Doherty will do better now though, in his cup/rotation appearances. He was never a right back so buying him and playing him as one was stupid. He's a wing back through and through, so should look a little better in Conte's system.

We have to bring in players in January. I don't believe Conte would have bothered signing without assurance that that will happen. Downside being you probably have to sell Kane to fund any substantial outlay. Then again that's only a downside if he starts scoring league goals in the next two months.
		
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Selling Kane is a massive upside for England fans as he will start trying again 


Also you don't want a player.who doesn't want to be there

Doing the old defoe getting reds every couple games


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## Swango1980 (Nov 2, 2021)

Ole will be feeling a little more secure in his job today


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## nickjdavis (Nov 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Strong rumours of Emery to Newcastle. That seems an odd one.
		
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Successful manager (lots of Europa League wins and also good at getting clubs promoted ) wherever he has been. Has dropped from 9/4 to 3/10 on Betfair overnight.....I'd say the bookies don't get things wrong often but so far both Conte and Fonseca have previously both been "odds on" in the markets....so an indication that the bookies don't really know what has been going on....and if that is an indication that the new owners might conduct their business internally a lot more than the old mob, and not air their laundry (dirty or clean) in public then that can only be a good thing, rather than in the past where Ashley would use his acolytes in Skye to leak information.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Hopefully not by the weekend 

Strong rumours of Emery to Newcastle. That seems an odd one.
		
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Successful manager (lots of Europa League wins and also good at getting clubs promoted ) wherever he has been. Has dropped from 9/4 to 3/10 on Betfair overnight.....I'd say the bookies don't get things wrong often but so far both Conte and Fonseca have previously both been "odds on" in the markets....so an indication that the bookies don't really know what has been going on....and if that is an indication that the new owners might conduct their business internally a lot more than the old mob, and not air their laundry (dirty or clean) in public then that can only be a good thing, rather than in the past where Ashley would use his acolytes in Skye to leak information.[/QUOTE]
His record in Spain is excellent but I'm not sure his time at Arsenal was inspiring. Can you say that you know what his style of play is from his time there? I don't know many Arsenal fans sad to see him go. Saying that I don't really know anything about Fonseca other than what is written down, so I have no idea if he would be better or not.

I'm with you, I think it is good there are no leaks and also that they are not rushing this. It's a big appointment.


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Successful manager (lots of Europa League wins and also good at getting clubs promoted ) wherever he has been. Has dropped from 9/4 to 3/10 on Betfair overnight.....I'd say the bookies don't get things wrong often but so far both Conte and Fonseca have previously both been "odds on" in the markets....so an indication that the bookies don't really know what has been going on....and if that is an indication that the new owners might conduct their business internally a lot more than the old mob, and not air their laundry (dirty or clean) in public then that can only be a good thing, rather than in the past where Ashley would use his acolytes in Skye to leak information.
		
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Cant think of a market where they get it wrong more than next manager appointments (possibly next manager to be sacked lol). Next spurs mgr market this summer had 7 odds on favourites before Nuno got the job and thats far from the exception.

People bet at ridiculous prices based on what they hope will happen as a fan usually based on some made up journalistic guess. Occasionally they guess right but not that often!


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## nickjdavis (Nov 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			People bet at ridiculous prices based on what they hope will happen as a fan usually based on some made up journalistic guess. Occasionally they guess right but not that often!
		
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I had a few quid on Bruce at 20-1 a couple of weeks before he was appointed.....not because I hoped it would happen....more because I feared it would happen and anticipated that he would be "Ashley's Yes Man".




Lord Tyrion said:



			His record in Spain is excellent but I'm not sure his time at Arsenal was inspiring. Can you say that you know what his style of play is from his time there? I don't know many Arsenal fans sad to see him go. Saying that I don't really know anything about Fonseca other than what is written down, so I have no idea if he would be better or not.

It's a big appointment.
		
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Emery had a better than 50% win record at Arsenal....took them to a Europa League Final.....has won 4 Europa League trophies elsewhere....in the 14 years that Ashley has held the reins of the club we have had just one single manager with a similar (greater even) pedigree. I do not believe for one minute that Emery is the long term 4/5/6 years down the line plan. The sort of manager that might be required to deliver a "title challenging" (not necessarily winning) team is not the sort of manager that could be expected to join the club now, given the precarious position the club is in. But if in two/three years time we are contending for say a top 7 place...possible minor European Competition qualifying (lord knows what comps UEFA will have invented in three years time)....then that will do for me.


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2021)

Emery was on a hiding to nothing at Arsenal, bit like Moyes at OT with what they had to follow. Was pretty much hung out to dry (by the club and the fans tbh) theres definitely worse managers out there but his accent and Geordies might be an interesting match haha


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## IainP (Nov 2, 2021)

Blatter & Platini
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59133079


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 2, 2021)

IainP said:



			Blatter & Platini
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59133079

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That should be in Things That Gladden The Heart


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			That should be in Things That Gladden The Heart   

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and random irritations!!!!


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			and random irritations!!!!
		
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No, nothing randomly irritating about those two charlatans being charged with fraud; it will only be randomly irritating if they aren't convicted.


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			No, nothing randomly irritating about those two charlatans being charged with fraud; it will only be randomly irritating if they aren't convicted.
		
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its taken 6 years to get to this point, both shouldve been in jail years ago!!!!!


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			its taken 6 years to get to this point, both shouldve been in jail years ago!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Well I can agree that is an irritation.


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## Dando (Nov 2, 2021)

IainP said:



			Blatter & Platini
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59133079

Click to expand...

I met blatter once when I was meeting with fifa on business.

He’s a thoroughly unpleasant person


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## Stuart_C (Nov 2, 2021)

Where's my man @Slime when you need him🤭🤭


----------



## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2021)

Pogba having an absolute stinker. Yet again.


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## Slime (Nov 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Where's my man @Slime when you need him🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

I'm right here, buddy. 
Go on, ask me anything you want.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 2, 2021)

Pogba is a liability, especially in a deeper midfield role. He has quality, but when he loses it that deep puts us in big trouble. Very sloppy 1st half for him. 

Don't get me started on that terrible signing Ronaldo...


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm right here, buddy. 
Go on, ask me anything you want.
		
Click to expand...

I believe the expression you were looking for was.....


----------



## Slime (Nov 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I believe the expression you were looking for was.....






Click to expand...

I was thinking more along the lines of


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 2, 2021)

Cracking Man U goal, tbf.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 2, 2021)

Just watching the Atalanta v Man U game....Atalanta have a shot from outside the area which is blocked by a Man U player, ball loops up in the air and falls to an Atalanta player who was offside when the shot was originally hit....player badly scuffs his shot but is flagged offside any way.

How is this scenario different from when an attacking player tries to play a through ball, but a defender sticks out a foot to block the pass but deflects the ball to a player who was offside when the pass was originally played?

We've seen loads of instances of the second scenario where the player scores and the goal is allowed to stand because the defender got a touch on the ball. So why should the first be treated any differently?

For what its worth...I don't agree with the second scenario where the fact that the defender gets a touch negates the offside position of the player....its the defenders job to try to get a touch on the ball to cut it out....just as its the defenders job to try to block a shot....just interested as to why two very similar scenarios get treated differently under todays convoluted offside rules.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2021)

Eric Bailly having a good game. If he could stay fit for more than a handful of games there would be merit in pairing him with Varane. Maguire has been awful again.


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## Slime (Nov 2, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Eric Bailly having a good game. If he could stay fit for more than a handful of games there would be merit in pairing him with Varane. *Maguire has been awful again.*

Click to expand...

................. and Pogba has been embarrassing.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			................. and Pogba has been embarrassing.
		
Click to expand...

He’s not been that good.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 2, 2021)

@Slime


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## Slime (Nov 2, 2021)




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## Swango1980 (Nov 2, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Just watching the Atalanta v Man U game....Atalanta have a shot from outside the area which is blocked by a Man U player, ball loops up in the air and falls to an Atalanta player who was offside when the shot was originally hit....player badly scuffs his shot but is flagged offside any way.

How is this scenario different from when an attacking player tries to play a through ball, but a defender sticks out a foot to block the pass but deflects the ball to a player who was offside when the pass was originally played?

We've seen loads of instances of the second scenario where the player scores and the goal is allowed to stand because the defender got a touch on the ball. So why should the first be treated any differently?

For what its worth...I don't agree with the second scenario where the fact that the defender gets a touch negates the offside position of the player....its the defenders job to try to get a touch on the ball to cut it out....just as its the defenders job to try to block a shot....just interested as to why two very similar scenarios get treated differently under todays convoluted offside rules.
		
Click to expand...

Probably nothing different at all. Just the officials getting themselves confused about the offside rule. Today is the correct application (or should be). Is it Premier League refs making a mess of it? Mind you, I notice the European officials were ridiculously slow using VAR.

Very good performance from Bailley. Ronaldo, legend. Maguire was pretty shocking. Pogba ridiculously sloppy. Rashford invisible.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Probably nothing different at all. Just the officials getting themselves confused about the offside rule. Today is the correct application (or should be). Is it Premier League refs making a mess of it? Mind you, I notice the European officials were ridiculously slow using VAR.

Very good performance from Bailley. Ronaldo, legend. Maguire was pretty shocking. Pogba ridiculously sloppy. Rashford invisible.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t know why Olé persists with Pogba. I’d love to see Van de Beek get a decent run in the side - it would really concern me to see him leave having never been given a sniff of a chance.


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## 4LEX (Nov 2, 2021)

Ronaldo bailing out Utd time and time again at his age is ridiculous.  That's 9 goals in 11 games and a lot of them vital ones. Without his CL goals Utd would have 5 less points and be out of the CL.

Man Utd were a shambles again, wrong shape, tactically clueless, flat and nothing other than two moments of quality.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 2, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I don’t know why Olé persists with Pogba. I’d love to see Van de Beek get a decent run in the side - it would really concern me to see him leave having never been given a sniff of a chance.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, how long does one hope Pogba will one day turn isolated great performances into consistent ones? Firstly, you need a good manager and team set up to get best out of him. Put him in a deep role, I get very nervous. He may shield ball beautifully 4 times, but then 5th he loses possession and we are in deep trouble. 

Time to go, Martial as well, and a few others. De Beek should definitely been given more opportunities, and I agree, why could he not play that midfield role as a rotation for Fred or McTomminay? And Lingard's prolonged absence baffles me. I wonder if Ole has fallen out with him, or forgotten he exists


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## Swango1980 (Nov 2, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Ronaldo bailing out Utd time and time again at his age is ridiculous.  That's 9 goals in 11 games and a lot of them vital ones. Without his CL goals Utd would have 5 less points and be out of the CL.

Man Utd were a shambles again, wrong shape, tactically clueless, flat and nothing other than two moments of quality.
		
Click to expand...

9 goals in 11 games is decent. Especially for a guy who, if he didn't score against Spurs, would have experienced his longest goal drought since his 1st spell at Utd.

That is pretty phenomenal


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## 4LEX (Nov 2, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			9 goals in 11 games is decent. Especially for a guy who, if he didn't score against Spurs, would have experienced his longest goal drought since his 1st spell at Utd.

That is pretty phenomenal
		
Click to expand...

The guy is just different levels. Time Utd stole City's chant of FEED THE GOAT AND HE WILL SCORE


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## IanM (Nov 2, 2021)

Not bad for a lazy old has-been who doesn't track back.   

He'll go far!


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## rudebhoy (Nov 3, 2021)

Emery set to reject Newcastle. Eddie Howe now being linked. 

Talk about lowering your sights. Can see them get relegated with him in charge. What a story that would be.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Just watching the Atalanta v Man U game....Atalanta have a shot from outside the area which is blocked by a Man U player, ball loops up in the air and falls to an Atalanta player who was offside when the shot was originally hit....player badly scuffs his shot but is flagged offside any way.

How is this scenario different from when an attacking player tries to play a through ball, but a defender sticks out a foot to block the pass but deflects the ball to a player who was offside when the pass was originally played?

We've seen loads of instances of the second scenario where the player scores and the goal is allowed to stand because the defender got a touch on the ball. So why should the first be treated any differently?

For what its worth...I don't agree with the second scenario where the fact that the defender gets a touch negates the offside position of the player....its the defenders job to try to get a touch on the ball to cut it out....just as its the defenders job to try to block a shot....just interested as to why two very similar scenarios get treated differently under todays convoluted offside rules.
		
Click to expand...

The Linesman would raise his flag if he believes the forward is offside in both scenarios if a forward scores then there will be an automatic review by VAR.

In this instance the forward fluffed his shot, the linesman flagged and the Ref went with the Linesman, that is outside the VAR scope to review.

So if there is an error it maybe the Ref not thinking the contact from the defender was intentional or there was a player offside earlier in the move.

It is the same Law in FIFA/UEFA/PL


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## 2blue (Nov 3, 2021)

IanM said:



			Not bad for a lazy old has-been who doesn't track back.  

He'll go far!
		
Click to expand...

Returns to a struggling side in the toughest league in the world & is bailing them out game after game.... unquestionably the GOAT in any era.
There couldn't be a better example to the rest of the team.....  though many seem to be astonishly blind to it


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2021)

2blue said:



			Returns to a struggling side in the toughest league in the world & is bailing them out game after game.... unquestionably the GOAT in any era.
There couldn't be a better example to the rest of the team.....  though many seem to be astonishly blind to it
		
Click to expand...

He's certainly put Pogba's nose out of joint!
Suddenly Pogba's not the daddy and I don't think he likes it.


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## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			He's certainly put Pogba's nose out of joint!
Suddenly Pogba's not the daddy and I don't think he likes it.
		
Click to expand...

Was he ever? Bruno was the main man before Ronaldo came along, not Pogba.


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Was he ever? Bruno was the main man before Ronaldo came along, not Pogba.
		
Click to expand...

Not in Pogba's head.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			Not in Pogba's head.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with Orikoru, Pogba lost "daddy" status when Bruno arrived and did what he did. If Pogba still felt he was the daddy after that, then he will still think he is the daddy with Ronaldo in the team.

The hopes that Pogba will become a great player for Utd have now faded with me. Sooner they get rid the better, take away the temptation in playing him. There are other players on the bench that could do with the opportunity when he is in the 1st 11.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The Linesman would raise his flag if he believes the forward is offside in both scenarios if a forward scores then there will be an automatic review by VAR.

In this instance the forward fluffed his shot, the linesman flagged and the Ref went with the Linesman, that is outside the VAR scope to review.

So if there is an error it maybe the Ref not thinking the contact from the defender was intentional or there was a player offside earlier in the move.

It is the same Law in FIFA/UEFA/PL
		
Click to expand...

I guess the circumstances aren't similar because the ball didn't finish up in the net.....however if it did, then I'm pretty certain it would have been chalked off, unlike what seems to happen in the 2nd scenario I described, where a defender trying to cut out a through ball to a player who was offside, gets a touch on the ball but fails to prevent it reaching the attacking player.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			He's certainly put Pogba's nose out of joint!
Suddenly Pogba's not the daddy and I don't think he likes it.
		
Click to expand...

Pogba is probably not the daddy in in own house let alone on the pitch.
Ronaldo is still the best in the world


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## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			I guess the circumstances aren't similar because the ball didn't finish up in the net.....however if it did, then I'm pretty certain it would have been chalked off, unlike what seems to happen in the 2nd scenario I described, where a defender trying to cut out a through ball to a player who was offside, gets a touch on the ball but fails to prevent it reaching the attacking player.
		
Click to expand...

I've given up trying to figure out the offside law now, it's a farce. Wouldn't be surprised if they have a different rule in Europe than we have in the Prem now just to confuse it further.


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## Billysboots (Nov 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Agree with Orikoru, Pogba lost "daddy" status when Bruno arrived and did what he did. If Pogba still felt he was the daddy after that, then he will still think he is the daddy with Ronaldo in the team.

The hopes that Pogba will become a great player for Utd have now faded with me. Sooner they get rid the better, take away the temptation in playing him. There are other players on the bench that could do with the opportunity when he is in the 1st 11.
		
Click to expand...

I sometimes think there’s an element of his price tag being involved in the decision to play Pogba. He cost nearly £100m therefore he MUST be a top class player. But he shows time, and time and time again that he simply isn’t. Flashes of brilliance every now and again but what I expect from him, as a matter of course, is just one mistake after another.

We should have cut our losses long ago.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Agree with Orikoru, Pogba lost "daddy" status when Bruno arrived and did what he did. If Pogba still felt he was the daddy after that, then he will still think he is the daddy with Ronaldo in the team.

The hopes that Pogba will become a great player for Utd have now faded with me. Sooner they get rid the better, take away the temptation in playing him. There are other players on the bench that could do with the opportunity when he is in the 1st 11.
		
Click to expand...

It’s certainly not just Pogba they need to get rid of although of all the ones he’s still got the best attributes to be a great at OT.

Fred,Matic and Maguire could all be replaced 

Lingard 100% deserves a start
Sancho and VDB deserve a chance to show if they have what it takes but I’m doubtful with those 2.

Mata needs to move on to play otherwise his career is over at Utd

Bailly and Lundelof as a partnership? If they could both stay fit.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			I guess the circumstances aren't similar because the ball didn't finish up in the net.....however if it did, then I'm pretty certain it would have been chalked off, unlike what seems to happen in the 2nd scenario I described, where a defender trying to cut out a through ball to a player who was offside, gets a touch on the ball but fails to prevent it reaching the attacking player.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately limiting VAR’s remit can cause issues as well as some of these decisions fall on the Refs interpretation.

In the above situation the only advantage gained was by Man Utd, which as you say if the attacker had scored they wouldn’t of.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			It’s certainly not just Pogba they need to get rid of although of all the ones he’s still got the best attributes to be a great at OT.

Fred,Matic and Maguire could all be replaced

Lingard 100% deserves a start
Sancho and VDB deserve a chance to show if they have what it takes but I’m doubtful with those 2.

Mata needs to move on to play otherwise his career is over at Utd

Bailly and Lundelof as a partnership? If they could both stay fit.
		
Click to expand...

TBF though Tony you need to replace them over a slow period, there’s no way you are currently better than 4th and making any quick wholesale changes would need time to bed in.

You may pick up 1 or 2 “Big” players in the Jan sale but very unlikely.

Your best option is to get CL next season and replace some players or even the manager at the end of this season.

I don’t think your owners would be willing to risk falling out of the top 4-6 over the next few years to rebuild.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Agree with Orikoru, Pogba lost "daddy" status when Bruno arrived and did what he did. If Pogba still felt he was the daddy after that, then he will still think he is the daddy with Ronaldo in the team.

The hopes that Pogba will become a great player for Utd have now faded with me. Sooner they get rid the better, take away the temptation in playing him. There are other players on the bench that could do with the opportunity when he is in the 1st 11.
		
Click to expand...

maybe that’s the issue in regards this “daddy status”

I think if you look at Chelsea , Liverpool and City there doesn’t seem to be these big ego types - they are just one team together , yes there are players who are better than others but there are no huge egos to massage

Where as you look at UTD and first it was Pogba as one big ego , then you add in Fernandes and then Ronaldo comes in as the biggest of them all - so it’s individuals just playing together and plenty of times it looks like individuals as well

Then you look at the others and it’s just a team - doesn’t matter which 11 are picked there are all as one. Even little strops when players come off get sorted quickly 

I can imagine those three big players stropping if they don’t get picked

It’s why I think none of the other teams would touch those players even though they are very talented


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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			maybe that’s the issue in regards this “daddy status”

I think if you look at Chelsea , Liverpool and City there doesn’t seem to be these big ego types - they are just one team together , yes there are players who are better than others but there are no huge egos to massage

Where as you look at UTD and first it was Pogba as one big ego , then you add in Fernandes and then Ronaldo comes in as the biggest of them all - so it’s individuals just playing together and plenty of times it looks like individuals as well

Then you look at the others and it’s just a team - doesn’t matter which 11 are picked there are all as one. Even little strops when players come off get sorted quickly

I can imagine those three big players stropping if they don’t get picked

It’s why I think none of the other teams would touch those players even though they are very talented
		
Click to expand...

Ronaldo has a big ego, in that he is a hugely confident individual. But, he proves himself time and time again, and the team are better for it. Cantona was hugely confident, Van Nistlerooy, Beckham, etc, but they worked their socks off and were huge for the team, They were huge for their team mates. Bruno also seems extremely confident, but he also delivers (albeit I do get a bit frustrated at times that he tries the Hollywood pass a little too often).

The problem with Pogba is that he has a huge ego, but he absolutely does not deliver on the same scale. It is not even that he is invisible, he actually becomes a liability in more games that he is a hero. This is not the ego any team need.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			TBF though Tony you need to replace them over a slow period, there’s no way you are currently better than 4th and making any quick wholesale changes would need time to bed in.

You may pick up 1 or 2 “Big” players in the Jan sale but very unlikely.

Your best option is to get CL next season and replace some players or even the manager at the end of this season.

I don’t think your owners would be willing to risk falling out of the top 4-6 over the next few years to rebuild.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with Poker that Pogba is not the only issue. Also agree that if you got rid of everyone in one go, it could backfire. Strange thing is, when Ole came in they did get rid of a lot of "deadwood", such as getting rid of Lukaku, Sanchez, Young, etc. But, since then, they've stalled in getting rid of players. It is almost like they are hoarding players. Means we have got to a point were, on the face of it they have brought some decent players in. But the squad is so full of players that "could" push for first team spots, and Ole is confused as to what the best team is. I think it has tempted him into thinking that the solution to a bad results is just rotating a few players (until the Spurs game where he suddenly saw the tactics were also important, or at least it was his last chance to try something different).

From my perspective, I would get rid of Pogba, Mata, Martial and Matic. I'm surprised some of them were not sold  / released a year or 2 ago. I'd hold on to the likes of Fred for now, although my preference would for him to become a squad player. Rashford, and even Greenwood are starting to concern me. Neither ever seems "up for it", and they often seem to strop about the pitch if things are not going perfectly. Rashford was invisible last night. Compare their attitude to Cavani. Even if things are not going well for him or the team, he is always on his toes, running, and looks determined to turn things around. I'm not sure if that poor attitude is a knock on to how others in the squad behave and / or the manager is unable to deal with it.

Anyone remember Amad Diallo?


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## fundy (Nov 3, 2021)

Looks like its not going to be good ebening on the toon

Whos next on the list? Howe?


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## pokerjoke (Nov 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			TBF though Tony you need to replace them over a slow period, there’s no way you are currently better than 4th and making any quick wholesale changes would need time to bed in.

You may pick up 1 or 2 “Big” players in the Jan sale but very unlikely.

Your best option is to get CL next season and replace some players or even the manager at the end of this season.

I don’t think your owners would be willing to risk falling out of the top 4-6 over the next few years to rebuild.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair I never mentioned quickly,however your right ,it would definitely have to be slowly,maybe 1 in 1 out and your right about availability.
Also who can afford their wages once bought,and bought at a loss to Utd.
One thing is for certain they aren’t good enough for the biggest club in the world.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			maybe that’s the issue in regards this “daddy status”

I think if you look at Chelsea , Liverpool and City there doesn’t seem to be these big ego types - they are just one team together , yes there are players who are better than others but there are no huge egos to massage

Where as you look at UTD and first it was Pogba as one big ego , then you add in Fernandes and then Ronaldo comes in as the biggest of them all - so it’s individuals just playing together and plenty of times it looks like individuals as well

Then you look at the others and it’s just a team - doesn’t matter which 11 are picked there are all as one. Even little strops when players come off get sorted quickly 

I can imagine those three big players stropping if they don’t get picked

It’s why I think none of the other teams would touch those players even though they are very talented
		
Click to expand...

Every player should strop if they don’t get picked I’d be surprised if they didn’t.
They have big egos and Ronaldos might be the biggest but he’s the best player in the world still at 36.
If you listen to his interview after the game last night he didn’t mention himself once or slate his team mates,even though the interviewer was trying to goad him.
Class player,class team mate and class man imhbo


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## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			Looks like its not going to be good ebening on the toon

Whos next on the list? Howe?
		
Click to expand...

God I hope so. Would be hilarious if they got relegated immediately after becoming the richest club on earth.


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## Beezerk (Nov 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			God I hope so. Would be hilarious if they got relegated immediately after becoming the richest club on earth. 

Click to expand...

Honestly, I wouldn’t laugh at all 😬😂😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2021)

So, will Simeone shake hands tonight if he loses?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			So, will Simeone shake hands tonight if he loses?
		
Click to expand...

Nope - has already stated that he sees it as false to shake hands after so won’t do it either way


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## Rlburnside (Nov 3, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			God I hope so. Would be hilarious if they got relegated immediately after becoming the richest club on earth. 

Click to expand...

Our skipper hates Man Utd and was wants them to lose every game, he has as soft spot for Newcastle and when I said I hope they get relegated he said he would be supporting ManUtd against Spurs 😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2021)

That’s not a bad ball 😳

There will be a red card in this game as Atletico resort to type


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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2021)

Keep flicking between games. Are City playing in a library?


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## BrianM (Nov 3, 2021)

Has Robertson been dropped tonight?


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## Dando (Nov 3, 2021)

The refs not taking any crap


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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2021)

Red card?????


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## Piece (Nov 3, 2021)

Hate cynical fouls like that. No complaints with that red.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2021)

Piece said:



			Hate cynical fouls like that. No complaints with that red.
		
Click to expand...

The red would not have been for that foul. Apparently he made an offensive gesture to the ref. Not sure he did (Walten said he did), I think it was just for ignoring the ref


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2021)

It’s always good to see a ref not put up with Atleticos ale house tactics


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## harpo_72 (Nov 3, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s always good to see a ref not put up with Atleticos ale house tactics
		
Click to expand...

Yup and we should see more refereeing like that.


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## Piece (Nov 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The red would not have been for that foul. Apparently he made an offensive gesture to the ref. Not sure he did (Walten said he did), I think it was just for ignoring the ref
		
Click to expand...

Also...slo mo shows what could be construed as a rake/leaving a foot in.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The red would not have been for that foul. Apparently he made an offensive gesture to the ref. Not sure he did (Walten said he did), I think it was just for ignoring the ref
		
Click to expand...

It was for the foul.
And imo rightly so .
No attempt for the ball just a thug.


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## DanFST (Nov 3, 2021)

Joke of a red.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2021)

Is there any player who hasn’t been booked 😂

Group of Death


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## 4LEX (Nov 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Agree with Poker that Pogba is not the only issue. Also agree that if you got rid of everyone in one go, it could backfire. Strange thing is, when Ole came in they did get rid of a lot of "deadwood", such as getting rid of Lukaku, Sanchez, Young, etc. But, since then, they've stalled in getting rid of players. It is almost like they are hoarding players. Means we have got to a point were, on the face of it they have brought some decent players in. But the squad is so full of players that "could" push for first team spots, and Ole is confused as to what the best team is. I think it has tempted him into thinking that the solution to a bad results is just rotating a few players (until the Spurs game where he suddenly saw the tactics were also important, or at least it was his last chance to try something different).

From my perspective, I would get rid of Pogba, Mata, Martial and Matic. I'm surprised some of them were not sold  / released a year or 2 ago. I'd hold on to the likes of Fred for now, although my preference would for him to become a squad player. Rashford, and even Greenwood are starting to concern me. Neither ever seems "up for it", and they often seem to strop about the pitch if things are not going perfectly. Rashford was invisible last night. Compare their attitude to Cavani. Even if things are not going well for him or the team, he is always on his toes, running, and looks determined to turn things around. I'm not sure if that poor attitude is a knock on to how others in the squad behave and / or the manager is unable to deal with it.

Anyone remember Amad Diallo?
		
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Lukaku wasn't deadwood, he was the best striker Utd had. Pogba, Martial and Sanchez were the real toxic deadwood and two of the three are still there. Ashley Young is a better RB or RWB than AWB too. Phil Jones and Mata getting new deals really showed the manager and board had no clue.

Disagree on Rashford though, he's one of the hardest workers and played through injury for two years. He's come back and has got 3 goals in 5 games and is still way off the pace. Rashford has as much, if not more workrate than Cavani. Rashford plays wide so has to track back, Cavani has less area to cover so it looks like he's putting more in. Although taking nothing away from Cavani who does put in a big shift every game. Greenwood is lazy and selfish, all he does is cut inside and shoot. He's a brilliant striker of the ball and has bailed Ole out so many times but he's not a right forward. He should be coached to be a number 9 as he's got everything to excel in that position. 

Diallo was a punt on a prospect, not sure he'd add anything to the side. But DVB and Sancho being bench warmers is worrying.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I sometimes think there’s an element of his price tag being involved in the decision to play Pogba. He cost nearly £100m therefore he MUST be a top class player. But he shows time, and time and time again that he simply isn’t. Flashes of brilliance every now and again but what I expect from him, as a matter of course, is just one mistake after another.

We should have cut our losses long ago.
		
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I could be wrong, but most Man U fans come across as hating Souness due to what he has consistently said about Pogba for a few years.

Most seem to be in agreement now, or at least over the last 18 months over Pogba.

He should have been a world great as has many great attributes, but his own application, attitude and work rate has stopped him.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			To be fair I never mentioned quickly,however your right ,it would definitely have to be slowly,maybe 1 in 1 out and your right about availability.
Also who can afford their wages once bought,and bought at a loss to Utd.
One thing is for certain they aren’t good enough for the biggest club in the world.
		
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Hang on, didnt you say that United had a title winning team just a few months ago.

You've never been the biggest club in the world, unless you've spelt Real Madrid wrong.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I could be wrong, but most Man U fans come across as hating Souness due to what he has consistently said about Pogba for a few years.

Most seem to be in agreement now, or at least over the last 18 months over Pogba.

He should have been a world great as has many great attributes, but his own application, attitude and work rate has stopped him.
		
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I certainly don't dislike Souness about what he said about Pogba, he has always been a frustrating player for us.


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## 4LEX (Nov 3, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I could be wrong, but most Man U fans come across as hating Souness due to what he has consistently said about Pogba for a few years.

Most seem to be in agreement now, or at least over the last 18 months over Pogba.

He should have been a world great as has many great attributes, but his own application, attitude and work rate has stopped him.
		
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The trouble is Pogba has won numerous titles in Italy and the World Cup. He wasn't a key player in Russia but it gave him the ego to question Mourinho and give it the big one. Ibrahimovic kept him in check during his first season and when he left Pogba was given freedom to do what he wanted. Jose wanted him out and was overuled. Bruno showed everyone what a world class attacking midfielder was and Pogba sulked. I don't think Ronaldo has made a difference, he's probably accepted he's not got what it takes to run a midfield or a game. He's now just running down his contract and will sign for Juve or Real for even more money. He'll go down as the worst signing in PL history. £89m and 5 years at £60m in wages.  He's added nothing to Utd and caused numerous issues.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was for the foul.
And imo rightly so .
No attempt for the ball just a thug.
		
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Yeah, just seen they said it was for the foul. Pretty shocked. Initially the ref didn't give the impression it would be a red. He only seemed to change his mind when the player didn't come over to him.

I appreciate cynical fouls are annoying. But they are so common, often called the professional foul. Often players are praised by commentators for "taking one for the team" and getting their yellow. Not sure I remember a straight red for such a foul. So not sure if they've changed the goalposts in terms of what is a red card these days. I imagine most fans would he furious if one of their players got sent off for such a foul.

Not that I mind tonight, I think Atletico are one of my least favourite European sides.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 4, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Lukaku wasn't deadwood, he was the best striker Utd had. Pogba, Martial and Sanchez were the real toxic deadwood and two of the three are still there. Ashley Young is a better RB or RWB than AWB too. Phil Jones and Mata getting new deals really showed the manager and board had no clue.

Disagree on Rashford though, he's one of the hardest workers and played through injury for two years. He's come back and has got 3 goals in 5 games and is still way off the pace. Rashford has as much, if not more workrate than Cavani. Rashford plays wide so has to track back, Cavani has less area to cover so it looks like he's putting more in. Although taking nothing away from Cavani who does put in a big shift every game. Greenwood is lazy and selfish, all he does is cut inside and shoot. He's a brilliant striker of the ball and has bailed Ole out so many times but he's not a right forward. He should be coached to be a number 9 as he's got everything to excel in that position.

Diallo was a punt on a prospect, not sure he'd add anything to the side. But DVB and Sancho being bench warmers is worrying.
		
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Deadwood maybe not the right term for Lukaku, but he never seemed to fit at Utd. He wasn't the best at holding up the ball, though he had improved big time on that.

My frustrations with Rashford are I hope for so much more. If anyone in that team could be our Mbappe, he has the attributes. However,  he frequently seems to make the wrong decision. Does something great, then does one step over too many, or a shoddy pass. Then, when we lose the ball it is like the entire side switch off (not just Rashford). 

But, my biggest concern is he always looks like a frustrated player. Don't want him turning into a Martial. However, in no way do I want Utd to get rid of him. I hope he has a long future at Utd, and is much more dangerous than Pogba.


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## Junior (Nov 4, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			It’s certainly not just Pogba they need to get rid of although of all the ones he’s still got the best attributes to be a great at OT.

Fred,Matic and Maguire could all be replaced

Lingard 100% deserves a start
Sancho and VDB deserve a chance to show if they have what it takes but I’m doubtful with those 2.

Mata needs to move on to play otherwise his career is over at Utd

Bailly and Lundelof as a partnership? If they could both stay fit.
		
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I agree that Ronaldo is the GOAT and has bailed us out, BUT, I think his signing has set us back.  His goals could have been scored by Cavani or Greenwood and his work rate is poor.  We signed him to stop him going to Citeh. 

I was excited to see us progress further with a younger side after a 2nd place finish last year . Lots of options re the shape of the side with the players,  433 or going to 442 if needed with Sancho going right wing.    I was impressed with DVB pre season playing holding midfielder but Ole goes for Fred and Mctominay time after time.

De Gea
AWB
Maguire
Varane
Shaw

DVB
Mctominay
Pogba

Bruno
Greenwood  / Cavani
Sancho / Lingard


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## Swango1980 (Nov 4, 2021)

Junior said:



			I agree that Ronaldo is the GOAT and has bailed us out, BUT, I think his signing has set us back.  His goals could have been scored by Cavani or Greenwood and his work rate is poor.  We signed him to stop him going to Citeh.

I was excited to see us progress further with a younger side after a 2nd place finish last year . Lots of options re the shape of the side with the players,  433 or going to 442 if needed with Sancho going right wing.    I was impressed with DVB pre season playing holding midfielder but Ole goes for Fred and Mctominay time after time.

De Gea
AWB
Maguire
Varane
Shaw

DVB
Mctominay
Pogba

Bruno
Greenwood  / Cavani
Sancho / Lingard
		
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I think you are either underestimating Ronaldo's ability,  or overestimating Cavani and Greenwood, to simply say they would have scored those goals anyway. To think they would crop up at that crucial moment and execute the perfect shot when needed is a huge assumption. That second goal he scored against Atalanta was ridiculous, the sort of chance you see players, time and time again, snatch the shot wide, duff it into a defender, hit it straight at keeper or blaze it over. Before Greenwood even flicked the ball, and anyone knew where the ball would end up, the replay showed Ronaldo was already anticipating the ball to end up in an area and prepare himself to react. Most strikers only seem to react after Greenwood flicked the ball. Cavani and Greenwood were in the pitch, but ultimately it was Ronaldo that was there to deliver the goods.

The only way Cavani and Greenwood would score the same amount of goals as Ronaldo is if Ole played a different style. One might argue that would be possible if Robaldo wasn't there. But, I doubt it based on Ole's record. Put Cavani up front instead of Ronaldo, I imagine Ole would have tried to play the same way. I love Cavani, but personally I don't think he is a better No9 than Ronaldo, so we'd still have been poor. It is not like the team are creating loads of chances.

City and Liverpool are effective pressing teams. I doubt they would suddenly go downhill if they had Ronaldo up.front.


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## Billysboots (Nov 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I could be wrong, but most Man U fans come across as hating Souness due to what he has consistently said about Pogba for a few years.

Most seem to be in agreement now, or at least over the last 18 months over Pogba.

He should have been a world great as has many great attributes, but his own application, attitude and work rate has stopped him.
		
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My dislike of Souness has nothing to do with anything he has ever said about Pogba, or indeed United in general. He is just a morose, humourless and aggressive pundit. I can’t stand the man, I’m afraid.

With regards to Pogba, I have done my level best to be patient with him, in the hope he can show us consistently what he is capable of. The club have done the same. Given the nature of so many of his performances, I think it fair to say Solskjaer has cut him an enormous amount of slack, far more than other players have been allowed. Other managers, I suspect, would not have been anywhere near as generous.

I used to think United could not step up a level without players of Pogba’s quality in the side. In a complete turnaround I am now firmly of the view that it is precisely because of the likes of Pogba that we are where we are. We’ll be far better off without him.


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## Billysboots (Nov 4, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			My frustrations with Rashford are I hope for so much more. If anyone in that team could be our Mbappe, he has the attributes. However,  he frequently seems to make the wrong decision. Does something great, then does one step over too many, or a shoddy pass.
		
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My mates think I’m bonkers when I talk about Rashford but, for some considerable time, I have been very critical of him. The phrase I have used many times now is that, whilst capable of the extraordinary, Rashford makes a hash of the ordinary fat too often. The excuse was made on his behalf towards the end of last season that he was carrying an injury, but my observations pre-dated that.

By far and away the biggest frustration I have with Rashford is his decision making, which is invariably very average, and that’s being generous. Far too often, having beaten one man he’ll then try and beat two more, and end up in a heap on the turf, feigning injury, having been dispossessed. It happens time and again, and it is so frustrating to watch. And his finishing at times leaves a lot to be desired. Flashes of brilliance do not hide the fact that much of what he does isn’t good enough. He’s been a very lucky boy to be anywhere near the England squad in recent months.

Realistically, Rashford would not be a regular starter at Chelsea or Liverpool. He has huge potential. But there has to come a time when he puts his mistakes behind him or he will always remain a player with huge potential, and that would be a crying shame.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			God I hope so. Would be hilarious if they got relegated immediately after becoming the richest club on earth. 

Click to expand...

Howe ironically can't organise a defence 


Billysboots said:



			My mates think I’m bonkers when I talk about Rashford but, for some considerable time, I have been very critical of him. The phrase I have used many times now is that, whilst capable of the extraordinary, Rashford makes a hash of the ordinary fat too often. The excuse was made on his behalf towards the end of last season that he was carrying an injury, but my observations pre-dated that.

By far and away the biggest frustration I have with Rashford is his decision making, which is invariably very average, and that’s being generous. Far too often, having beaten one man he’ll then try and beat two more, and end up in a heap on the turf, feigning injury, having been dispossessed. It happens time and again, and it is so frustrating to watch. And his finishing at times leaves a lot to be desired. Flashes of brilliance do not hide the fact that much of what he does isn’t good enough. He’s been a very lucky boy to be anywhere near the England squad in recent months.

Realistically, Rashford would not be a regular starter at Chelsea or Liverpool. He has huge potential. But there has to come a time when he puts his mistakes behind him or he will always remain a player with huge potential, and that would be a crying shame.
		
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I see what you mean

I think rashford is like lingard. Unfortunately come through at one of the big boys so unless he top top class will always struggle to keep his place

I think rashford would be perfect at West ham, Everton, Leicester, spurs if Kane had been sold .. not saying he would walk into these teams just more the level he could command a more regular place and prob perform more consistent


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, just seen they said it was for the foul. Pretty shocked. Initially the ref didn't give the impression it would be a red. He only seemed to change his mind when the player didn't come over to him.

I appreciate cynical fouls are annoying. But they are so common, often called the professional foul. Often players are praised by commentators for "taking one for the team" and getting their yellow. Not sure I remember a straight red for such a foul. So not sure if they've changed the goalposts in terms of what is a red card these days. I imagine most fans would he furious if one of their players got sent off for such a foul.

Not that I mind tonight, I think Atletico are one of my least favourite European sides.
		
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One of them finished me as a footballer so I hate them.
But if it wasn’t for the foul then he got a straight red for dissent.
If he had shown two yellows it might teach these arrogant spoilt brats they need to show the ref some respect.
You would never see that in a rugby match!
He did rake his studs down his Achilles.
Thought the ref was very good. But he did give a few very head scratching decisions both ways.

Great display from us.but we had some sitters that we missed, that goal average might have made sure they don’t qualify.
Great to see OX playing well.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 4, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			My dislike of Souness has nothing to do with anything he has ever said about Pogba, or indeed United in general. He is just a morose, humourless and aggressive pundit. I can’t stand the man, I’m afraid.

With regards to Pogba, I have done my level best to be patient with him, in the hope he can show us consistently what he is capable of. The club have done the same. Given the nature of so many of his performances, I think it fair to say Solskjaer has cut him an enormous amount of slack, far more than other players have been allowed. Other managers, I suspect, would not have been anywhere near as generous.

I used to think United could not step up a level without players of Pogba’s quality in the side. In a complete turnaround I am now firmly of the view that it is precisely because of the likes of Pogba that we are where we are. We’ll be far better off without him.
		
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I think this is a post that could 100% be echoed by myself.


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## Junior (Nov 4, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I think you are either underestimating Ronaldo's ability,  or overestimating Cavani and Greenwood, to simply say they would have scored those goals anyway. To think they would crop up at that crucial moment and execute the perfect shot when needed is a huge assumption. That second goal he scored against Atalanta was ridiculous, the sort of chance you see players, time and time again, snatch the shot wide, duff it into a defender, hit it straight at keeper or blaze it over. Before Greenwood even flicked the ball, and anyone knew where the ball would end up, the replay showed Ronaldo was already anticipating the ball to end up in an area and prepare himself to react. Most strikers only seem to react after Greenwood flicked the ball. Cavani and Greenwood were in the pitch, but ultimately it was Ronaldo that was there to deliver the goods.

The only way Cavani and Greenwood would score the same amount of goals as Ronaldo is if Ole played a different style. One might argue that would be possible if Robaldo wasn't there. But, I doubt it based on Ole's record. Put Cavani up front instead of Ronaldo, I imagine Ole would have tried to play the same way. I love Cavani, but personally I don't think he is a better No9 than Ronaldo, so we'd still have been poor. It is not like the team are creating loads of chances.

City and Liverpool are effective pressing teams. I doubt they would suddenly go downhill if they had Ronaldo up.front.
		
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Don't get me wrong, I think he's the greatest player in the history of the game.  But that's another debate. 

What I'm saying is that we're not as good as we were last season.  The only difference in the side, Ronaldo.  He's 36 and has his moments of brilliance.  He doesnt work as hard as Cavani / Greenwood does off the ball and you need that to be a top side.  We've adapted the team to fit one player at the expense of a few others.  I don't think we'll finish 2nd this season.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Junior said:



			Don't get me wrong, I think he's the greatest player in the history of the game.  But that's another debate.

What I'm saying is that we're not as good as we were last season.  The only difference in the side, Ronaldo.  We've adapted the team to fit one player at the expense of a few others.  I don't think we'll finish 2nd this season.
		
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Apart from actually winning the PL does it really matter if you finish 2,3 or 4 so long as you qualify for the CL?

Yes you finished 2nd last year, but it was with a points total that wouldn’t of made top 4 in some previous seasons.

As an outsider I’d suggest you have a better stronger squad than last year, which hasn’t yet come together, and it’s still very early in the season.


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## Junior (Nov 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Apart from actually winning the PL does it really matter if you finish 2,3 or 4 so long as you qualify for the CL?

Yes you finished 2nd last year, but it was with a points total that wouldn’t of made top 4 in some previous seasons.

As an outsider I’d suggest you have a better stronger squad than last year, which hasn’t yet come together, and it’s still very early in the season.
		
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See what you're saying mate but what matters is how well we play and the work rate of the eleven player on the pitch.   We may have a stronger squad, but, having seen many games at OT this season and last, we are a shadow of the team we were last season.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Apart from actually winning the PL does it really matter if you finish 2,3 or 4 so long as you qualify for the CL?

Yes you finished 2nd last year, but it was with a points total that wouldn’t of made top 4 in some previous seasons.

As an outsider I’d suggest you have a better stronger squad than last year, which hasn’t yet come together, and it’s still very early in the season.
		
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United only finished second last year because Liverpool were broken with injuries and Chelsea had a so/so league campaign. They had a brilliant away record in a season with no fans, it was all very strange - but they didnt play better football than the year previous in my opinion.

The United squad is way stronger this season (Sancho, Varane and RONALDO!!!!) - but so are Liverpool and Cheslea - and frankly they just have better managers and players/ squad depth than united do too.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Junior said:



			See what you're saying mate but what matters is how well we play and the work rate of the eleven player on the pitch.   We may have a stronger squad, but, having seen many games at OT this season and last, we are a shadow of the team we were last season.
		
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I’m not disagreeing mate, just don’t think Utd are not pas bad as some making out, there’s a long way to go this season and at the end of it hindsight may of made spot on or…


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			United only finished second last year because Liverpool were broken with injuries and Chelsea had a so/so league campaign. They had a brilliant away record in a season with no fans, it was all very strange - but they didnt play better football than the year previous in my opinion.

The United squad is way stronger this season (Sancho, Varane and RONALDO!!!!) - but so are Liverpool and Cheslea - and frankly they just have better managers and players/ squad depth than united do too.
		
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Agree on the better managers, not sure on the squad depths, it’s very confusing when you compare squads and what could be.

Given a choice of taken 2nd XI players from Utd, City, LPool and Chelsea, Utd would give you more quality to choose from.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Agree on the better managers, not sure on the squad depths, it’s very confusing when you compare squads and what could be.

Given a choice of taken 2nd XI players from Utd, City, LPool and Chelsea, Utd would give you more quality to choose from.
		
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Its a matter of opinions but I beg to differ. Half your second team wouldnt get in a mid table side. You have plenty of forwards - thats it....


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## Swango1980 (Nov 4, 2021)

Junior said:



			Don't get me wrong, I think he's the greatest player in the history of the game.  But that's another debate.

What I'm saying is that we're not as good as we were last season.  The only difference in the side, Ronaldo.  He's 36 and has his moments of brilliance.  He doesnt work as hard as Cavani / Greenwood does off the ball and you need that to be a top side.  We've adapted the team to fit one player at the expense of a few others.  I don't think we'll finish 2nd this season.
		
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I think 2nd probably flattered us last season to some degree. It is a bit like a round of golf. Sometimes you go out and you just don't feel like you are playing great, yet finish with 36 points. You feel that is about as good as you'd score that day, and could have been much worse. Other times you finish with 36 and you are devastated, as you think it would have been so easy to shoot 40+ if it wasn't for some silly errors, bad luck. The first scenario is how I class man Utd last season. Credit to them, they came back so many times from losing positions, but to rely on that all the time is dangerous. In golf it is great if we sink 5 or 6 6 footers in a round to build a score, but it is not something you can guarantee will work out for you in the next round. 

Performance wise, I'm struggling to see a large drop in performance from last season. We've been dire for long periods this season, but the same was true last season. As a result of this form last season, a central defender, defensive midfielder and striker were widely acknowledged to be top transfer targets by most. We got the centre back, but not the midfielder. We got Sancho, as expected. Although I was always unsure about that signing. Hoped he'd be a great addition, but with the likes of Rashford, Martial, James (at the time), Greenwood and sometimes Pogba able to play in wide positions, I felt it was always going to lead to one or 2 players losing out on game time compared to last season.

Had we bought Kane or Haaland, I think few would blame them for weakening the team. I suspect we'd still have begged Cavani to stay, and rightfully so in my opinion. It is all very well saying Ronaldo does not work, yet at Spurs Kane is getting Lambasted and criticised for not staying in and around the penalty spot at all times. Ronaldo is scoring goals, important ones as well, in a team that is not exactly creating many guilt edge opportunities. He does run however, I've seen him defending his own penalty area at times. But, in terms of charging down opposition defenders, it is all very well saying we need a striker to do that, but it is pointless when his team mates around him don't do it. As I said, stick him up front for City, I'm positive they'd still be able to close the opposition down. They could probably do it, even if Ronaldo decided to set up camp in the opposition penalty area.

The big problem is that Ole and his management team just do not know how to get the best out of the players in the squad. Holding on to certain players for too long has also caused problems, with Ole struggling to keep them all happy, especially the attacking players. Mind you, watching Bailly's performance this week, despite injuries, I wonder how unlucky he feels he has been having never really been given a good run out in the 1st 11.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hang on, didnt you say that United had a title winning team just a few months ago.

You've never been the biggest club in the world, unless you've spelt Real Madrid wrong.
		
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They have got a title winning team however there are many reasons we are not looking that way right now.
If and it’s a big if players were playing to their full potential and Ole was getting the best out of these players,yes I honestly believe we had a chance.
Leicester showed you don’t need the best players but you need players playing as one team to its full potential.

I think most of us here that talk football can see Utds failings.
Apparently if Klopp or Pep were managing these players we would be right up there competing.

Consistency is what we need,players and performances,but we are not getting it right now.
However we could win 10 on the bounce and sail right past you


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Its a matter of opinions but I beg to differ. Half your second team wouldnt get in a mid table side. You have plenty of forwards - thats it....
		
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I’m an Everton fan👍🏻


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Its a matter of opinions but I beg to differ. Half your second team wouldnt get in a mid table side. You have plenty of forwards - thats it....
		
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Not sure they have:
1.David De Gea
2. Victor Lindelof
3. Wan-Bisakka
4. Shaw
5. Harry Maguire
6. Paul Pogba
7. Cristiano Ronaldo
8. Juan Mata
9. Anthony Martial
10. Marcus Rashford
11. Mason Greenwood

Henderson
Bailly
Jones
Jesse Lingard
Fred
Bruno Fernandes
Raphael Varane
Diogo Dalot
Edinson Cavani
Jadon Sancho
Scott McTominay


Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek

Mix and match how you like, no way has the other 3 teams that depth.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not sure they have:
1.David De Gea
2. Victor Lindelof
3. Wan-Bisakka
4. Shaw
5. Harry Maguire
6. Paul Pogba
7. Cristiano Ronaldo
8. Juan Mata
9. Anthony Martial
10. Marcus Rashford
11. Mason Greenwood

Henderson
Bailly
Jones
Jesse Lingard
Fred
Bruno Fernandes
Raphael Varane
Diogo Dalot
Edinson Cavani
Jadon Sancho
Scott McTominay


Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek

Mix and match how you like, no way has the other 3 teams that depth.
		
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Weird first 11 you chose  

Theres so many old high earning low caliber players there it hurts. These are not top 4 players in 2021. Overrated squad.

Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek - although unproven...
Scott McTominay (I am a fan but not there really)
Diogo Dalot
Bailly
Jones 
Victor Lindelof
Juan Mata
Anthony Martial
Fred

It's Manchester United... not Spurs. Squad full of garbage.

How many of the above get into Evertons team?


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## nickjdavis (Nov 4, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The red would not have been for that foul. Apparently he made an offensive gesture to the ref. Not sure he did (Walten said he did), I think it was just for ignoring the ref
		
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I actually think all he did was to put his thumb up!!!...I don't know if you can give someone the thumbs up in a sarcastic manner or not


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Weird first 11 you chose  

Theres so many old high earning low caliber players there it hurts. These are not top 4 players in 2021. Overrated squad.

Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek - although unproven...
Scott McTominay (I am a fan but not there really)
Diogo Dalot
Bailly
Jones 
Victor Lindelof
Juan Mata
Anthony Martial
Fred

It's Manchester United... not Spurs. Squad full of garbage.

How many of the above get into Evertons team?
		
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I'll take Van de Beek please. No thanks to the rest .

That adds up to a lot of wages for very little


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## Neilds (Nov 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not sure they have:
1.David De Gea
2. Victor Lindelof
3. Wan-Bisakka
4. Shaw
5. Harry Maguire
6. Paul Pogba
7. Cristiano Ronaldo
8. Juan Mata
9. Anthony Martial
10. Marcus Rashford
11. Mason Greenwood

Henderson
Bailly
Jones
Jesse Lingard
Fred
Bruno Fernandes
Raphael Varane
Diogo Dalot
Edinson Cavani
Jadon Sancho
Scott McTominay


Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek

Mix and match how you like, no way has the other 3 teams that depth.
		
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You can have all the depth you like, but if they can't play as a team then you won't get very far - as they have proved many a time this season!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Weird first 11 you chose  

Theres so many old high earning low caliber players there it hurts. These are not top 4 players in 2021. Overrated squad.

Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek - although unproven...
Scott McTominay (I am a fan but not there really)
Diogo Dalot
Bailly
Jones 
Victor Lindelof
Juan Mata
Anthony Martial
Fred

It's Manchester United... not Spurs. Squad full of garbage.

How many of the above get into Evertons team?
		
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It wasn’t my first 11, as I said at the bottom, mix and match as you please!

How about you try a grown up discussion and show a better more in depth 2nd XI from the other 3.

As for Everton, we’re garbage and I’d happily take Martial, Mata, Matic, Van De Beek, Bailly, Lindelof, McTominay.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Neilds said:



			You can have all the depth you like, but if they can't play as a team then you won't get very far - as they have proved many a time this season! 

Click to expand...

Which is probably why we agreed the Managers are the difference with the top 4 squads, try reading the thread first.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 4, 2021)

Honestly United just dont have the fear factor anymore. 

Load of washed up old blokes on big pay checks or over rated youth prospects that never actually reach the next level.

Rashford is an amazing man and role model - but hes never had a 20 goal season in the prem.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Weird first 11 you chose  

Theres so many old high earning low caliber players there it hurts. These are not top 4 players in 2021. Overrated squad.

Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek - although unproven...
Scott McTominay (I am a fan but not there really)
Diogo Dalot
Bailly
Jones 
Victor Lindelof
Juan Mata
Anthony Martial
Fred

It's Manchester United... not Spurs. Squad full of garbage.

How many of the above get into Evertons team?
		
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I'd take vdb as depth at west ham 

If it wasn't proven now over years that martial just isn't consistent .. I'd take him


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## Bdill93 (Nov 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It wasn’t my first 11, as I said at the bottom, mix and match as you please!

How about you try a grown up discussion and show a better more in depth 2nd XI from the other 3.

As for Everton, we’re garbage and I’d happily take Martial, Mata, Matic, Van De Beek, Bailly, Lindelof, McTominay.
		
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This is a grown up discussion, one I seem to have more support in than you too. What a silly comment. 

You dont need 3 squads you need good squad depth. Proven talent that actually delivers. Players on the bench who walk into other top 4 sides CURRENTLY.

Sorry but United's second options are either 34+ or an overrated youth product. I don't care that they can afford to pay lots of rubbish players - it just doesnt make them any better from having so many of these wastes of money.

On City's bench last night........

Rúben Dias
Aké
Sterling
Gabriel Jesus
Zinchenko
De Bruyne
Fernandinho


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll take Van de Beek please. No thanks to the rest .

That adds up to a lot of wages for very little 

Click to expand...

Compared to the lot of wages on players like Delph, Rondon, Gomes, Tosun, Siggurdsson, Iwobi, Gbamin


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			This is a grown up discussion, one I seem to have more support in than you too. What a silly comment.

You dont need 3 squads you need good squad depth. Proven talent that actually delivers. Players on the bench who walk into other top 4 sides CURRENTLY.

Sorry but United's second options are either 34+ or an overrated youth product. I don't care that they can afford to pay lots of rubbish players - it just doesnt make them any better from having so many of these wastes of money.

On City's bench last night........

Rúben Dias
Aké
Sterling
Gabriel Jesus
Zinchenko
De Bruyne
Fernandinho


Click to expand...

Bench is irrelevant, I gave you a list of 26 Squad players for Utd, you give 7 players from City, who most would put in their first XI yet you mock me for putting a random XI down for Utd.

Maybe you should try and read the question rather than go off on a tangent.

Should be easy to prove me wrong by listing the 2nd XI’s for Chelsea, City and LPool.

No doubt there will be players those 3 Clubs have who would make the first XI for other Clubs outside the top 4, but this discussion was about the top 4, not other Clubs.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 4, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Compared to the lot of wages on players like Delph, Rondon, Gomes, Tosun, Siggurdsson, Iwobi, Gbamin 

Click to expand...

Oh, I agree. We have plenty of our own shame . They have more but then they have more money to waste than us so it is relative.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Oh, I agree. We have plenty of our own shame . They have more but then they have more money to waste than us so it is relative.
		
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Discussion wasn’t about wages etc though mate, it was meant to be about ability etc.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 4, 2021)

The depth issue within various squads has been banded around for a while

Apparently it’s one of Liverpool’s weaknesses- seems we have no depth compared to the others 

Each squad has issues 

Chelsea - solid back in the full backs and midfield , no striker back up really but plenty in the wide areas. CB and GK not strong 

City - strength in most areas as back up apart from striker .

Liverpool - we have back up in all areas but RB we need to rely on Milner , DM is a drop off and the forwards it’s a drop to Origi etc 

But IMO all three are as strong as each other - they each have areas that can be improved.

Man Utd - GK , forwards have back up - the rest imo aren’t great, even the main starting 11 in the midfield aren’t great 

And have to agree with @Junior - Ronaldo is a great player but it’s affected the balance of the team right now.


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## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2021)

Fantastic squad depth at Spurs, our bench players are just as bad as the ones playing. 👍🏻


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## pokerjoke (Nov 4, 2021)

Ronaldo comes in and the rate he’s going atm he will have 20-30 goals this season,yet some think he effects the balance of the team.
Sorry totally disagree ,the others need to step up and start performing themselves along side Ronaldo.
He’s our centre forward who scores goals and lots of them and crucial ones to boot.
99% of teams would love Ronaldo
Liverpool wouldn’t.


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## 4LEX (Nov 4, 2021)

Junior said:



			Don't get me wrong, I think he's the greatest player in the history of the game.  But that's another debate.

What I'm saying is that we're not as good as we were last season.  The only difference in the side, Ronaldo.  He's 36 and has his moments of brilliance.  He doesnt work as hard as Cavani / Greenwood does off the ball and you need that to be a top side.  We've adapted the team to fit one player at the expense of a few others.  I don't think we'll finish 2nd this season.
		
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Utd were generally average for most of last season, the points total said it all. Liverpool and Chelsea being off the pace was the only reason second was achieved. There were so many games that were won by a bit of luck or late goal. It wasn't sustainable. The XG's for and against backed it up.

Ronaldo being signed should have made a positive difference, yet all it's done is highlight Ole's flaws. He's clueless and hasn't been able to fit the players together. Forget Ronaldo, more questions should be asked about the defence. De Gea has been the best player this season, yet Ole often plays with two DM's. The defence has been a shambles, Maguire playing like a stricken tanker and Shaw back to his old ways. AWB looking like a headless chicken when he crosses the half way line. That's £160m worth of defenders plus the addition of a WC winning CB and one of the best in the world. Not to mention two £30m back ups.

It's just all wrong on every level. Nothing will change until Ole goes.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 4, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Utd were generally average for most of last season, the points total said it all. Liverpool and Chelsea being off the pace was the only reason second was achieved. There were so many games that were won by a bit of luck or late goal. It wasn't sustainable. The XG's for and against backed it up.

Ronaldo being signed should have made a positive difference, yet all it's done is highlight Ole's flaws. He's clueless and hasn't been able to fit the players together. Forget Ronaldo, more questions should be asked about the defence. De Gea has been the best player this season, yet Ole often plays with two DM's. The defence has been a shambles, Maguire playing like a stricken tanker and Shaw back to his old ways. AWB looking like a headless chicken when he crosses the half way line. That's £160m worth of defenders plus the addition of a WC winning CB and one of the best in the world. Not to mention two £30m back ups.

It's just all wrong on every level. Nothing will change until Ole goes.
		
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Stricken tanker 
The Tanker probably turns quicker.
In the Euros both Shaw and Maguire were good,now they both look shocking.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Fantastic squad depth at Spurs, our bench players are just as bad as the ones playing. 👍🏻
		
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I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you get 3 points at the weekend. I’ll be gobsmacked if we do.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 4, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Utd were generally average for most of last season, the points total said it all. Liverpool and Chelsea being off the pace was the only reason second was achieved. There were so many games that were won by a bit of luck or late goal. It wasn't sustainable. The XG's for and against backed it up.

Ronaldo being signed should have made a positive difference, yet all it's done is highlight Ole's flaws. He's clueless and hasn't been able to fit the players together. Forget Ronaldo, more questions should be asked about the defence. De Gea has been the best player this season, yet Ole often plays with two DM's. The defence has been a shambles, Maguire playing like a stricken tanker and Shaw back to his old ways. AWB looking like a headless chicken when he crosses the half way line. That's £160m worth of defenders plus the addition of a WC winning CB and one of the best in the world. Not to mention two £30m back ups.

It's just all wrong on every level. Nothing will change until Ole goes.
		
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Both Maguire and Shaw are and have always been overrated because they are English and weren’t horrific during the Euros - Maguires positionally is poor hence why he has to throw himself into tackles , and how some saw Shaw as at the level of Robertson is laughable IMO 

Always thought AWB was a solid defender but ripped apart in recent games.


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## Billysboots (Nov 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Both Maguire and Shaw are and have always been overrated because they are English and weren’t horrific during the Euros - Maguires positionally is poor hence why he has to throw himself into tackles , and how some saw Shaw as at the level of Robertson is laughable IMO

Always thought AWB was a solid defender but ripped apart in recent games.
		
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AWB has been made to look truly awful for one very simple reason. He’s a fullback, not a wingback. Going forward he is utterly clueless with no end product but, defensively, in the main he has been a decent enough signing, albeit with a worrying tendency to go to ground rather too quickly.

If his game has generally gone off the boil I’d put it down to the malaise which seems to affect most of United’s players the minute they step over the white line at the moment. None of the three you mention are bad players - but their brains appear to be completely addled just now, for reasons which have been done to death here in recent times.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 4, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			AWB has been made to look truly awful for one very simple reason. He’s a fullback, not a wingback. Going forward he is utterly clueless with no end product but, defensively, in the main he has been a decent enough signing, albeit with a worrying tendency to go to ground rather too quickly.

If his game has generally gone off the boil I’d put it down to the malaise which seems to affect most of United’s players the minute they step over the white line at the moment. None of the three you mention are bad players - but their brains appear to be completely addled just now, for reasons which have been done to death here in recent times.
		
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All three are “decent” players - but I still find it staggering that Maguire was what - £80mil ?! AWB - £50mil ?! And Luke Shaw £35mil 7 years ago - staggering prices for “decent Prem” players. They are all a couple rungs below true world class quality


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## Fade and Die (Nov 4, 2021)

What a goal from Soucek.😩


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## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			What a goal from Soucek.😩
		
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Fair result in the end 

Good to see lanzini getting back to his best after injury

Benny. What a player 

Think we should push him up top with lanzini behind when Antonio isn't about


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## Billysboots (Nov 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All three are “decent” players - but I still find it staggering that Maguire was what - £80mil ?! AWB - £50mil ?! And Luke Shaw £35mil 7 years ago - staggering prices for “decent Prem” players. They are all a couple rungs below true world class quality
		
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I never said they were worth the money paid for them, Phil, neither did I suggest they are world class.

Other clubs have been having United’s pants down for years in the transfer market, Maguire being a prime example. We paid at least £40m too much, if not more.


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## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2021)

I've turned on BT Sport for Spurs and Jenas is _hosting. _When did that become a thing??


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## Billysboots (Nov 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I've turned on BT Sport for Spurs and Jenas is _hosting. _When did that become a thing??
		
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I think he’s hosted a couple now. He also co-hosts The One Show on BBC1, apparently.


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## Beezerk (Nov 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I've turned on BT Sport for Spurs and Jenas is _hosting. _When did that become a thing??
		
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He does the “Disney hands” thing innit, bit street, bit cheesy for the masses 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 4, 2021)

He is the ultimate in bland 😴


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 4, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I never said they were worth the money paid for them, Phil, neither did I suggest they are world class.

Other clubs have been having United’s pants down for years in the transfer market, Maguire being a prime example. We paid at least £40m too much, if not more.
		
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sorry yes I know you weren’t 

I think that’s where one of the biggest issues is - a lack of any decent football director - Woodward is a lawyer essentially and appears to be completely out of his depth in the role


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## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is the ultimate in bland 😴
		
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In some ways that's probably more what you want from the host rather than from the pundits!


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## Billysboots (Nov 4, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is the ultimate in bland 😴
		
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You need to taste my elderly mum’s seafood risotto. Now *that’s *bland.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Both Maguire and Shaw are and have always been overrated because they are English and weren’t horrific during the Euros - Maguires positionally is poor hence why he has to throw himself into tackles , and how some saw Shaw as at the level of Robertson is laughable IMO

Always thought AWB was a solid defender but ripped apart in recent games.
		
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Sorry Phil but I really do think you watch Robertson through rose tinted glasses.
He’s decent,but certainly not the wordie you make him out to be.
Seen him look a bit suspect this season tbh.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 4, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			In some ways that's probably more what you want from the host rather than from the pundits!
		
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Hosts don't need to be controversial but they are allowed a personality.


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## Beezerk (Nov 4, 2021)

Eddie Howe to the Toon 🤭


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## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sorry Phil but I really do think you watch Robertson through rose tinted glasses.
He’s decent,but certainly not the wordie you make him out to be.
Seen him look a bit suspect this season tbh.
		
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Robertson is a good player but replaceable 

If you have 2 good centre backs and a defensive midfielder behind you enabling you to bomb forward you always look better 

Look at cresswell. Couple of dire seasons when we were all over place defensively.. but put ogbonna and zouma together with rice and soucek suddenly he has freedom to bomb forward and create 

Put Robertson in a poor defence he will look poor 

Where as someone like van dyke will always look class.. that's the level he is and will raise players game around him

Much like payet raised our players games when he was in the team as he was outstanding player 

Two types of good players 

Good players to fit a system and players to build around 

Robertson is not one to build around but is a good player to add some finesse


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## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2021)

Exciting half for the neutral anyway. Thought we had it sown up, but it turns out we're still Spurs and Conte hasn't made us good yet. He's had nearly a week, what's he been doing??


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## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Eddie Howe to the Toon 🤭
		
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Lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Robertson is a good player but replaceable

If you have 2 good centre backs and a defensive midfielder behind you enabling you to bomb forward you always look better

Look at cresswell. Couple of dire seasons when we were all over place defensively.. but put ogbonna and zouma together with rice and soucek suddenly he has freedom to bomb forward and create

Put Robertson in a poor defence he will look poor

Where as someone like van dyke will always look class.. that's the level he is and will raise players game around him

Much like payet raised our players games when he was in the team as he was outstanding player

Two types of good players

Good players to fit a system and players to build around

Robertson is not one to build around but is a good player to add some finesse
		
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Spot on 👍🏻


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## Cherry13 (Nov 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Not a fan?

im not devastated by his appointment, but it’s been a bit of a mess the last few days.  He needs to get off to a quick start though, once Rafa gets the chop (inevitable) he’s going to loom large over any appointment.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Not a fan?

im not devastated by his appointment, but it’s been a bit of a mess the last few days.  He needs to get off to a quick start though, once Rafa gets the chop (inevitable) he’s going to loom large over any appointment.
		
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He can't organise a defense (ironically) which in a team that's in a relegation battle unable to spend until January defensive play would be key to making sure their not too far a drift


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## IanM (Nov 4, 2021)

Spurs being Spurs.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 4, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Not a fan?

im not devastated by his appointment, but it’s been a bit of a mess the last few days.  He needs to get off to a quick start though, once Rafa gets the chop (inevitable) he’s going to loom large over any appointment.
		
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Howe did very well with Bournemouth and tried to play football with his team instead of at times doing the ugly stuff. Think it’s a good appointment to steady things and even if they do go down will be a manager that can get them back up. Certainly don’t think it’s the worst appointment


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## Cherry13 (Nov 4, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			He can't organise a defense (ironically) which in a team that's in a relegation battle unable to spend until January defensive play would be key to making sure their not too far a drift
		
Click to expand...

He seems a pretty smart bloke, I’d hope he’s spent some time learning and evaluating his defensive frailties (and any others).  But to be honest I think up until Jan the defence is a lost cause, he might eke a little bit more out of lascelles, but the whole unit is a shambles.  They need a DM, both full backs and likely another CB.  I’m not sure even Rafa could turn that defence around between now and Jan.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Ronaldo comes in and the rate he’s going atm he will have 20-30 goals this season,yet some think he effects the balance of the team.
Sorry totally disagree ,the others need to step up and start performing themselves along side Ronaldo.
He’s our centre forward who scores goals and lots of them and crucial ones to boot.
99% of teams would love Ronaldo
Liverpool wouldn’t.
		
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Didnt Lineker get 42 goals in his one season at Everton - won nothing.

The season either side of that they won the league both times with the likes of Graeme Sharp, Andy Gray, Adrian Heath, Wayne Clark and Ian Marshall.

Ok, its not a recipe for winning the league, but a team that doesnt let many in and scores enough can win the league more than 1 player just scoring a shed load.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 4, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Didnt Lineker get 42 goals in his one season at Everton - won nothing.

The season either side of that they won the league both times with the likes of Graeme Sharp, Andy Gray, Adrian Heath, Wayne Clark and Ian Marshall.

Ok, its not a recipe for winning the league, but a team that doesnt let many in and scores enough can win the league more than 1 player just scoring a shed load.
		
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I don't think there was any mention about a guaranteed league win. Simply that 99% of teams would love Ronaldo. And, I bet most teams back in the day would have preferred Lineker than the others mentioned.

Having players that can score a shed load of goals is quite the advantage. I doubt Liverpool fans would swap Salah for any forward at Man City, despite Liverpool not winning the league last season.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't think there was any mention about a guaranteed league win. Simply that 99% of teams would love Ronaldo. And, I bet most teams back in the day would have preferred Lineker than the others mentioned.

Having players that can score a shed load of goals is quite the advantage. I doubt Liverpool fans would swap Salah for any forward at Man City, despite Liverpool not winning the league last season.
		
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No there wasnt, but one player scoring tonnes of goals doesnt always mean its healthy for the team - most times, yes, but not always.

Most teams would have loved Lineker back then, we didnt, but we had Rush.  Clive Allen for spurs scored over 50 in one season - won nowt.

We didnt win the league last year due to many reasons, chief amongst them being City were very, very good again.

The overall point is that although a singular striker scoring lots of goals can go some way to you winning the league, a better team system will always trump it.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No there wasnt, but one player scoring tonnes of goals doesnt always mean its healthy for the team - most times, yes, but not always.

Most teams would have loved Lineker back then, we didnt, but we had Rush.  Clive Allen for spurs scored over 50 in one season - won nowt.

We didnt win the league last year due to many reasons, chief amongst them being City were very, very good again.

The overall point is that although a singular striker scoring lots of goals can go some way to you winning the league, a better team system will always trump it.
		
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Ahem, 

RVP won the league for Fergies final season. Unless you believe that squad was decent…..

I agree that a good system can be as important. Liverpool for example have played some of the best footy for the last 5 years with arguably the weakest actual striker. But most good teams would still improve if they had a 30 goal a season player.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No there wasnt, but one player scoring tonnes of goals doesnt always mean its healthy for the team - most times, yes, but not always.

Most teams would have loved Lineker back then, we didnt, but we had Rush.  Clive Allen for spurs scored over 50 in one season - won nowt.

We didnt win the league last year due to many reasons, chief amongst them being City were very, very good again.

The overall point is that although a singular striker scoring lots of goals can go some way to you winning the league, a better team system will always trump it.
		
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Would it be healthier for the team if Ole asked Ronaldo to score less?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No there wasnt, but one player scoring tonnes of goals doesnt always mean its healthy for the team - most times, yes, but not always.

Most teams would have loved Lineker back then, we didnt, but we had Rush.  Clive Allen for spurs scored over 50 in one season - won nowt.

We didnt win the league last year due to many reasons, chief amongst them being City were very, very good again.

The overall point is that although a singular striker scoring lots of goals can go some way to you winning the league, a better team system will always trump it.
		
Click to expand...

Mind you, Liverpool were pretty woeful when Fowler was banging them in. So maybe your angle is that Liverpool would have been healthier without him?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Ahem,

RVP won the league for Fergies final season. Unless you believe that squad was decent…..

I agree that a good system can be as important. Liverpool for example have played some of the best footy for the *last 5 years with arguably the weakest actual striker.* But most good teams would still improve if they had a 30 goal a season player.
		
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🤷‍♂️ Weakest ?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️ Weakest ?
		
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i hope he’s not referring to Big Divock Origi😠😠


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## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Mind you, Liverpool were pretty woeful when Fowler was banging them in. So maybe your angle is that Liverpool would have been healthier without him?
		
Click to expand...

There’s similarities between Liverpool of the 90’s post Kenny and Yernited post Ferguson, pissing money up the wall on over priced tat and relying on McMananaman/Fowler, in this case Ronaldo/Fernandes,to score goals whilst being a shambles defensively 😉


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## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️ Weakest ?
		
Click to expand...

Of the big clubs yes. 

Firminho. I know you say you'd not swap him and him brings everyone into play etc. But Jota seems to do just fine there too. Imo Mane and Salah could play uptop with anyone and do the business.

You guys are sensible with money. You splurged on VVD and Alison as they were the key areas. But I think you could fit many other strikers in that team and perform just as well with more goals too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Of the big clubs yes.

Firminho. I know you say you'd not swap him and him brings everyone into play etc. But Jota seems to do just fine there too. Imo Mane and Salah could play uptop with anyone and do the business.

You guys are sensible with money. You splurged on VVD and Alison as they were the key areas. But I think you could fit many other strikers in that team and perform just as well with more goals too.
		
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How is he the weakest ? Are you just looking at goals scored only and also ignoring the fact he isn’t really a striker 🤷‍♂️

Just like City - we don’t play with a traditional striker hence why Firmino is far from the “weakest” when he is prob one of the best in that role in the league

I would have thought after 5 years now people would understand the role that he plays


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No there wasnt, but one player scoring tonnes of goals doesnt always mean its healthy for the team - most times, yes, but not always.

Most teams would have loved Lineker back then, we didnt, but we had Rush.  Clive Allen for spurs scored over 50 in one season - won nowt.

We didnt win the league last year due to many reasons, chief amongst them being City were very, very good again.

The overall point is that although a singular striker scoring lots of goals can go some way to you winning the league, a better team system will always trump it.
		
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Very much agree with this. The problem, there are a few, with lumping all of your eggs in one basket with one player is what happens when that player has an off day, gets marked out of the game etc. How does the team respond when their default is to point everything towards that one player and that player is not scoring in that match? 

Lineker was a great for us but we were better as a team with the combination of Gray / Sharp or Sharp / Heath.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 5, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			There’s similarities between Liverpool of the 90’s post Kenny and Yernited post Ferguson, pissing money up the wall on over priced tat and relying on McMananaman/Fowler, in this case Ronaldo/Fernandes,to score goals whilst being a shambles defensively 😉
		
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I completely believe that is a fair point, well certainly pre Ole in terms of pissing money up the wall. Transfers since have been better, though prices often inflated when clubs as rich as United bid for a player. 

The point you make is backing up my view however in this specific discussion. We rely on players like Ronaldo and Bruno, to make up for shambolic team play. When people try and say "Ronaldo is the problem" it is almost laughable, as ridiculous as me trying to tell Liverpool fans Fowler was the problem in the 90's.

United have, quite possible, the best No. 9 in the world, even at 36. I loved Ruud Van Nistlerooy, yet I still believe Ronaldo is just an absolute genius of a footballer. That is one massive tick in terms of what every good football team needs, or at least would love. If a team performs worse after getting such a player, especially when that player is producing the goods, to me it has nothing to do with that player making the team worse. It is a massive stain on the manager for being unable to get anywhere near the potential of that team. But, as I said and others to, performance wise we were pretty damn poor last year as well, and largely got away with it. So, we may actually not be worse at all than last year generally, it is just we have made slightly less comebacks, whilst Liverpool and Chelsea have improved hugely.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I completely believe that is a fair point, well certainly pre Ole in terms of pissing money up the wall. Transfers since have been better, though prices often inflated when clubs as rich as United bid for a player.

The point you make is backing up my view however in this specific discussion. We rely on players like Ronaldo and Bruno, to make up for shambolic team play. When people try and say "Ronaldo is the problem" it is almost laughable, as ridiculous as me trying to tell Liverpool fans Fowler was the problem in the 90's.

United have, quite possible, the best No. 9 in the world, even at 36. I loved Ruud Van Nistlerooy, yet I still believe Ronaldo is just an absolute genius of a footballer. That is one massive tick in terms of what every good football team needs, or at least would love. If a team performs worse after getting such a player, especially when that player is producing the goods, to me it has nothing to do with that player making the team worse. It is a massive stain on the manager for being unable to get anywhere near the potential of that team. But, as I said and others to, performance wise we were pretty damn poor last year as well, and largely got away with it. So, we may actually not be worse at all than last year generally, it is just we have made slightly less comebacks, whilst Liverpool and Chelsea have improved hugely.
		
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For me Ronaldo would walk into any team in the premier League and improve them

City desperate for a striker 
Liverpool he for me would replace firmino and having him Salah and mane , wow 
Chelsea would improve

Rest go without saying really


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2021)

A question for utd fans. Have you changed your style of play this season to accomodate Ronaldo? Are you playing the same as last season and he is simply finishing the moves or are you playing differently to play to his strengths?

This isn't a trick question. I rarely watch utd play so can't make comparisons.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I completely believe that is a fair point, well certainly pre Ole in terms of pissing money up the wall. Transfers since have been better, though prices often inflated when clubs as rich as United bid for a player. 

The point you make is backing up my view however in this specific discussion. We rely on players like Ronaldo and Bruno, to make up for shambolic team play. When people try and say "Ronaldo is the problem" it is almost laughable, as ridiculous as me trying to tell Liverpool fans Fowler was the problem in the 90's.

United have, quite possible, the best No. 9 in the world, even at 36. I loved Ruud Van Nistlerooy, yet I still believe Ronaldo is just an absolute genius of a footballer. That is one massive tick in terms of what every good football team needs, or at least would love. If a team performs worse after getting such a player, especially when that player is producing the goods, to me it has nothing to do with that player making the team worse. It is a massive stain on the manager for being unable to get anywhere near the potential of that team. But, as I said and others to, performance wise we were pretty damn poor last year as well, and largely got away with it. So, we may actually not be worse at all than last year generally, it is just we have made slightly less comebacks, whilst Liverpool and Chelsea have improved hugely.
		
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100%
If people see Ronaldo as a problem they need to join the Hockey league.
He has improved every team he’s played for,but all of a sudden he’s messed up Utd whilst still scoring world class goals and winning games single handed.
Others players need to step up its that simple.
If Pogba played to his full potential we would have a world class midfielder but he doesn’t,how would that be Ronaldo effecting the balance of the team.
I can actually see us going on a run,sooner of later it will click with some of these players.
It’s up to Ole to get them playing and that’s probably where the problem lies atm.
I really can’t see Utd getting rid of Ole ,definitely not in the near future,he needs to learn how to get the best out of what potentially is a great squad.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Very much agree with this. The problem, there are a few, with lumping all of your eggs in one basket with one player is what happens when that player has an off day, gets marked out of the game etc. How does the team respond when their default is to point everything towards that one player and that player is not scoring in that match?

Lineker was a great for us but we were better as a team with the combination of Gray / Sharp or Sharp / Heath.
		
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Those relationships were formed over a few seasons though. Gray left when Lineker arrived and as much as he only won the ridiculous Charity Shield we were runners-up in the League and Cup. 

Through no fault of our own we/Lineker were denied European football so he went to Spain. Who knows what partnerships could of been formed had he stayed?

That one season Lineker scored 38 league goals Sharp & Heath scored 21 & 14.

That was less than they scored the season after when we won the league.

So I’d agree in principle about putting all your eggs in one basket, but highlighting the fact that’s not really what happened.

You have to remember Lpool were at their height and dominated English football during that period.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How is he the weakest ? Are you just looking at goals scored only and also ignoring the fact he isn’t really a striker 🤷‍♂️

Just like City - we don’t play with a traditional striker hence why Firmino is far from the “weakest” when he is prob one of the best in that role in the league

I would have thought after 5 years now people would understand the role that he plays
		
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I get his role for you - but I think Kane would do a similar job creatively/ dragging defenders away - but also throw another 5-10 goals into the mix too.

Lukaku the same. 

These are both £100 million players though


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Those relationships were formed over a few seasons though. Gray left when Lineker arrived and as much as he only won the ridiculous Charity Shield we were runners-up in the League and Cup.

Through no fault of our own we/Lineker were denied European football so he went to Spain. Who knows what partnerships could of been formed had he stayed?

That one season Lineker scored 38 league goals Sharp & Heath scored 21 & 14.

That was less than they scored the season after when we won the league.

So I’d agree in principle about putting all your eggs in one basket, but highlighting the fact that’s not really what happened.

You have to remember Lpool were at their height and dominated English football during that period.
		
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I know we were millimetres from cleaning up that year and it could all have been so much different. A second year for him, we may well have won the lot. We did change our style slightly though to accommodate him so I do back @Liverbirdie point.


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## Billysboots (Nov 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A question for utd fans. Have you changed your style of play this season to accomodate Ronaldo? Are you playing the same as last season and he is simply finishing the moves or are you playing differently to play to his strengths?

This isn't a trick question. I rarely watch utd play so can't make comparisons.
		
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I’ve tried to conjure up a response to this but I really can’t. Not because I don’t understand the game, I promise you, but because I genuinely cannot work out how United are trying to play this season - there simply appears to be no system or structure.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A question for utd fans. Have you changed your style of play this season to accomodate Ronaldo? Are you playing the same as last season and he is simply finishing the moves or are you playing differently to play to his strengths?

This isn't a trick question. I rarely watch utd play so can't make comparisons.
		
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Not really.

When Utd went chasing Sancho, I was a little puzzled. To be fair, I've not seen him a lot as I don't watch German football, but generally his opponents there are maybe not the best? I rarely saw him play well when I did watch him. However, putting my trust is the scouts who do monitor player performances, and assuming he is a great player, I still wondered how Utd would accommodate him. The problem being what do they do with Greenwood. There is no doubt Greenwood has shown some fantastic qualities, especially when he gets a chance to shoot with either foot. However, by bring Sancho in, either that meant less time for Greenwood, or as many expected, Greenwood to become our number 9. That worried me, I've never really seen him be given much of a chance in that position. So, up to now, the coaching staff have not felt it appropriate to rely on him up there. He can strike a ball, but does he have that ability to be in the right place at the right time? I'm unsure. Does he have the ability to get on the end of a cross, dominate in the air against big centre backs and score with his head. I am very sceptical he can. So, I felt if they gave him a chance as a No.9, inevitably they would quickly revert back to Cavani instead as much as possible. The Greenwood experiment could be similar when we got rid of Lukaku and though Rashford or Martial could be the main striker, which did not work out well at all.

So, if we are talking about balance, I'd say it is the signing of Sancho that has created the biggest problem in my opinion. With or without Ronaldo, Ole still wants to play Greenwood as much as possible, which ultimately would have ended up as a right-forward. So him and Sancho would probably always have competed for a spot in the team. I'm desperate for Greenwood to meet his potential, just like Rashford. But, Greenwood seems quite one dimensional, he cuts inside and tries to get a shot away. There is little else to his attacking game at the moment, and he is non-existent when we need to defend. Teams have got used to him, and so are probably just defending better against him this year than last. Rashford didn't have the best of seasons last year anyway, especially the 2nd half. Again, he is quite one dimensional with poor decision making, so the opposition have probably found a way to play against him.

Obviously, in one respect I'm pointing my finger at the players. But, I'm sure a great coach would see this and find ways to improve their games. However, I think their progress has stalled because the coaching at the club is severely limited. Having Ronaldo at the club is huge, he delivers time and time again. But, one of my biggest hopes was that players like Greenwood and Rashford would learn from him. Ronaldo seems to be quite a leader amongst his team mates, and if we cannot rely on the coaches, hopefully Ronaldo can give them some great advice. However, that only goes so far, ultimately it will be the manager players look for the biggest inspiration, as it is ultimately the manager that tells them how to play collectively.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 5, 2021)

On another note, anybody think that Conte shouted more words on the touchline on his debut as Spurs coach last night, than Ole has done in his entire managerial career? Conte must be feeling pretty hoarse today, but it is nice to see a manager on the touchline who at least has conviction in knowing what he wants from the team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I get his role for you - but I think Kane would do a similar job creatively/ dragging defenders away - but also throw another 5-10 goals into the mix too.

Lukaku the same.

These are both £100 million players though 

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Kane over the last season then yes - he certainly is getting more involved deeper but IMO it’s affected his goal return 

Lukaku the same 

Bobby doesn’t score as many as others because of that role he plays - the goals he isn’t scoring are being scored by Mane and Mo - if Bobby does play a bit higher then he would score more but then Mane etc would score less. All about balance between the three - it’s why IMO Ronaldo wouldn’t be suited to us.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I know we were millimetres from cleaning up that year and it could all have been so much different. A second year for him, we may well have won the lot. We did change our style slightly though to accommodate him so I do back @Liverbirdie point.
		
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We’ll have to agree to disagree, I agree on the principle of not putting all your eggs in one basket, but Lineker was bought on the back of us winning the League, the ECWC and runners-up in the FA Cup, the next step was to try for the European Cup.

The Lineker season we ended up on the same points as we had the season after when we won the League.

Not sure what the slight change of style you remember is, but personally I’d give the credit to LPool who were simply the better team that season and were in the middle of probably their best spell in their history.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Kane over the last season then yes - he certainly is getting more involved deeper but IMO it’s affected his goal return

Lukaku the same

Bobby doesn’t score as many as others because of that role he plays - the goals he isn’t scoring are being scored by Mane and Mo - if Bobby does play a bit higher then he would score more but then Mane etc would score less. All about balance between the three - it’s why IMO Ronaldo wouldn’t be suited to us.
		
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But, what would it matter if it was about "balance"

Last season Salah got 22, Mane 11 and Firmino 9 in the Premier League. That is a total of 42 goals. So, if Ronaldo played instead of Firmino, what would it matter if Ronaldo go 20, Salah 15 and Mane 7? It is still 42 goals for the team.

However, in reality, I could see Ronaldo getting at least 30 in Liverpools team. Even if that means Salah and Mane got a little less, say 18 and 7 goals, that is still 55 goals, 13 more than last season. And, in actual fact, would Ronaldo not put more fear into opposition defences, and along with being a better player than Firminho actually create MORE opportunities for Salah and Mane to score?

Look back to the Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney trio, who scored 57 goals in 07-08 PL and 79 in all competitions. They all benefited each other. So, although Ronaldo plays in a different position now, he is still a hell of a player and I personally think he would make Liverpool immensely better. The thought actually makes me feel ill.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			But, what would it matter if it was about "balance"

Last season Salah got 22, Mane 11 and Firmino 9 in the Premier League. That is a total of 42 goals. So, if Ronaldo played instead of Firmino, what would it matter if Ronaldo go 20, Salah 15 and Mane 7? It is still 42 goals for the team.

However, in reality, I could see Ronaldo getting at least 30 in Liverpools team. Even if that means Salah and Mane got a little less, say 18 and 7 goals, that is still 55 goals, 13 more than last season. And, in actual fact, would Ronaldo not put more fear into opposition defences, and along with being a better player than Firminho actually create MORE opportunities for Salah and Mane to score?

Look back to the Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney trio, who scored 57 goals in 07-08 PL and 79 in all competitions. They all benefited each other. So, although Ronaldo plays in a different position now, he is still a hell of a player and I personally think he would make Liverpool immensely better. The thought actually makes me feel ill.
		
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Last season isn’t the greatest to use as a pointer for the three - Mane and Bobby were off form and it wasn’t their most productive 

17/18 - 57 in league - 91 in all comps 
18/19 - 56 in league - 69 in all comps
19/20 - 48 in league - 67 in all comps 

It’s not just about the goals scoring for Firmino - he is a key reason why the likes of Mane and Mo score as much as they do, he is a totally different player to Ronaldo. 

Ronaldo is the number 9 - the focal point , it all needs to go through and into him and yes he will score goals but it’s more than just about scoring goals. And imo it’s why Klopp would never look at someone like Ronaldo even with him being a top Goalscorer. Our front three has been consistently one of the best if not the best in Europe over the last 4/5 years - because of the way they compliment each other - when Jota comes in there is a little change in the way the front three play


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## Bdill93 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Kane over the last season then yes - he certainly is getting more involved deeper but IMO it’s affected his goal return

Lukaku the same

Bobby doesn’t score as many as others because of that role he plays - the goals he isn’t scoring are being scored by Mane and Mo - if Bobby does play a bit higher then he would score more but then Mane etc would score less. All about balance between the three - it’s why IMO Ronaldo wouldn’t be suited to us.
		
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Ronaldo definately not - He wouldnt have the work rate - but I do think the others would slot in and improve you. But as I said before 100m for 5/6 extra goals from your striker when you already have the ability to win the prem and CL is a bit of a glamour spend and not necessary. I like many people on here admire the liverpool model. You havent brought the league and youre not breaking transfer records for no real gain. VVD and Allison were worth every penny.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Ronaldo definately not - He wouldnt have the work rate - but I do think the others would slot in and improve you. But as I said before 100m for 5/6 extra goals from your striker when you already have the ability to win the prem and CL is a bit of a glamour spend and not necessary. I like many people on here admire the liverpool model. You havent brought the league and youre not breaking transfer records for no real gain. VVD and Allison were worth every penny.
		
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yes - it’s a lot money to spend on not too much improvement , but we will need to replace Bobby soon and I think we will see a young player coming in during the summer.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			yes - it’s a lot money to spend on not too much improvement , but we will need to replace Bobby soon and I think we will see a young player coming in during the summer.
		
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You do to be fair. Someone great with his back to goal who is more than capable of scoring 15 a season. Hard to come by in todays market but your scouts dont seem to fail often. Who's looking good for the red bull teams at the moment?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ll have to agree to disagree, I agree on the principle of not putting all your eggs in one basket, but Lineker was bought on the back of us winning the League, the ECWC and runners-up in the FA Cup, the next step was to try for the European Cup.

The Lineker season we ended up on the same points as we had the season after when we won the League.

Not sure what the slight change of style you remember is, but personally I’d give the credit to LPool who were simply the better team that season and were in the middle of probably their best spell in their history.
		
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30 odd years ago so happy to accept my memory is hazy on this. I seem to think we went a little faster up to Lineker, more through balls for him to run onto. A bit like how Leicester play with Vardy. It altered how we played through the midfield. As I say though, 30 plus years ago so.......

Off to play some bad golf now 😄👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You do to be fair. Someone great with his back to goal who is more than capable of scoring 15 a season. Hard to come by in todays market but your scouts dont seem to fail often. Who's looking good for the red bull teams at the moment? 

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The one that is being rumours is Karim Adeymi - at Salzburg , but who knows , Bellingham is also rumoured 😂


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## Bdill93 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The one that is being rumours is Karim Adeymi - at Salzburg , but who knows , Bellingham is also rumoured 😂
		
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Classic Liverpool   Scouts sent to southampton or red bull sides 

Bellingham would be a real coup


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 5, 2021)

If people are comparing Ronaldo with Firmino, forgetting why goals scored, how do they compare with tackles made, own and balls recovered? Liverpool are a team of 11, whereas with Ronaldo Utd appear a team of 10.5


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Last season isn’t the greatest to use as a pointer for the three - Mane and Bobby were off form and it wasn’t their most productive

17/18 - 57 in league - 91 in all comps
18/19 - 56 in league - 69 in all comps
19/20 - 48 in league - 67 in all comps

It’s not just about the goals scoring for Firmino - he is a key reason why the likes of Mane and Mo score as much as they do, he is a totally different player to Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is the number 9 - the focal point , it all needs to go through and into him and yes he will score goals but it’s more than just about scoring goals. And imo it’s why Klopp would never look at someone like Ronaldo even with him being a top Goalscorer. Our front three has been consistently one of the best if not the best in Europe over the last 4/5 years - because of the way they compliment each other - when Jota comes in there is a little change in the way the front three play
		
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The only reason Firminos goal tally is low is his finishing isn’t good.
We have had this discussion before. He gets chances but just dosnt finish them.
He’s not really a striker.
He links the play up brilliantly but Jota plays a similar role as you say but his finishing is better imo.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Last season isn’t the greatest to use as a pointer for the three - Mane and Bobby were off form and it wasn’t their most productive

17/18 - 57 in league - 91 in all comps
18/19 - 56 in league - 69 in all comps
19/20 - 48 in league - 67 in all comps

It’s not just about the goals scoring for Firmino - he is a key reason why the likes of Mane and Mo score as much as they do, he is a totally different player to Ronaldo.

*Ronaldo is the number 9 - the focal point , it all needs to go through and into him and yes he will score goals but it’s more than just about scoring goals*. And imo it’s why Klopp would never look at someone like Ronaldo even with him being a top Goalscorer. Our front three has been consistently one of the best if not the best in Europe over the last 4/5 years - because of the way they compliment each other - when Jota comes in there is a little change in the way the front three play
		
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Again, I think this is a complete red herring. If Ronaldo is in a relatively poor team, then of course he becomes a focal point. His team mates rely on him to do the business they cannot do themselves. But, it is crazy to think Liverpool would suddenly start playing completely different with Ronaldo up front instead of Firminho. As if suddenly Salah becomes a different player and much less effective. If you think that, then maybe Salah is all just hype. He can only play with someone of similar stature as Firminho. There is no way Pep was going to bring Ronaldo into the City team so that they'd have a focal point, and thus play completely differently to how they play now.

Ronaldo can do everything that Firminho can do. He can set up goals like he did with Cavani last weekend, so if he had Salah up with him there is no doubt he would be able to give Salah plenty of opportunities. Perhaps if Liverpool had a weak manager, then there would be a temptation to instruct his players to constantly look to Ronaldo to finish things off. Klopp wouldn't


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Again, I think this is a complete red herring. If Ronaldo is in a relatively poor team, then of course he becomes a focal point. His team mates rely on him to do the business they cannot do themselves. But, it is crazy to think Liverpool would suddenly start playing completely different with Ronaldo up front instead of Firminho. As if suddenly Salah becomes a different player and much less effective. If you think that, then maybe Salah is all just hype. He can only play with someone of similar stature as Firminho. There is no way Pep was going to bring Ronaldo into the City team so that they'd have a focal point, and thus play completely differently to how they play now.

Ronaldo can do everything that Firminho can do. He can set up goals like he did with Cavani last weekend, so if he had Salah up with him there is no doubt he would be able to give Salah plenty of opportunities. Perhaps if Liverpool had a weak manager, then there would be a temptation to instruct his players to constantly look to Ronaldo to finish things off. Klopp wouldn't
		
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I agree there are to many times Liverpool don’t have anybody in the box.
So the wide players are forced back or have to go alone.
It’s how Klopp plays and we have done very well with this system.
A top CF might make a difference but we might lose something in midfield that Firmino does.
Ronaldo seems to see things other players don’t, he could adjust to play anywhere imo he is that good.
He would definitely give us an added threat.
With TAA crossing his aerial threat would be fantastic.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 5, 2021)

Imagine how many headers Ronaldo would score each season with TAA putting crosses on his head 5 or 6 times in every game.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Ronaldo definately not - He wouldnt have the work rate - but I do think the others would slot in and improve you. But as I said before 100m for 5/6 extra goals from your striker when you already have the ability to win the prem and CL is a bit of a glamour spend and not necessary. I like many people on here admire the liverpool model. You havent brought the league and youre not breaking transfer records for no real gain. VVD and Allison were worth every penny.
		
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5/6 goals might just win you four games instead of drawing Thats 8 points and could win you the PL.
That’s worth the transfer fee alone.


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## Piece (Nov 5, 2021)

All this talk about Ronaldo not working enough.... I don't think I've ever seen a harder worker in and around the penalty area than him. Movement is sensational. For the rest of the pitch, yeah, maybe not the best at tracking back!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2021)

Put Salah in the Utd team and he’d be no longer be the best in the world on current form.

Ronaldo, Messi and few others in recent years would improve any team.

As has been said already on this thread it’s the manager that makes the difference and how they put their jigsaw (team) together.

There are superb players in all top 4 teams that opposition managers wouldn’t have at their Club as they wouldn’t see them fitting in.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 5, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			5/6 goals might just win you four games instead of drawing Thats 8 points and could win you the PL.
That’s worth the transfer fee alone.
		
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Yeah maybe.. but its 100m gamble that also might not work. Bobby does.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 5, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Yeah maybe.. but its 100m gamble that also might not work. Bobby does.
		
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Any signing is a gamble. Not sure where the £100m comes in though, unless I am missing something. However, this is not really about having to go through the process of purchasing a player, it is simply who would you rather have, Ronaldo or Firminho? Imagine there is no extra cost either way. Otherwise, we could ask a Lincoln City fan if they'd rather have Ronaldo or Tom Hopper. If they were thinking about the money, they could well say they'd stick with Cooper, because they'd have to raise a ridiculous amount of money to get Ronaldo, which could bankrupt them (or financial fair play would make such a move impossible even if they had the money)


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## Bdill93 (Nov 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Any signing is a gamble. Not sure where the £100m comes in though, unless I am missing something. However, this is not really about having to go through the process of purchasing a player, it is simply who would you rather have, Ronaldo or Firminho? Imagine there is no extra cost either way. Otherwise, we could ask a Lincoln City fan if they'd rather have Ronaldo or Tom Hopper. If they were thinking about the money, they could well say they'd stick with Cooper, because they'd have to raise a ridiculous amount of money to get Ronaldo, which could bankrupt them (or financial fair play would make such a move impossible even if they had the money)
		
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My original discussion was not all about Ronaldo or Firminho. It was about Firminho being the "weakest" striker in the top 4. 




Bdill93 said:



			I get his role for you - but I think Kane would do a similar job creatively/ dragging defenders away - but also throw another 5-10 goals into the mix too.

Lukaku the same.

These are both £100 million players though 

Click to expand...


100m is what a proven top striker costs in todays market. Release clause's not counting of course.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Yeah maybe.. but its 100m gamble that also might not work. Bobby does.
		
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Yes , see the point but every transfer is a gamble really.
I like Cavanni in that role he works very hard and can finish.
Just a bit old now.
I think Kane would be ideal plays like Bobby but great finisher given the chances we would make for him.
Bobs not going to last forever.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How is he the weakest ? Are you just looking at goals scored only and also ignoring the fact he isn’t really a striker 🤷‍♂️

Just like City - we don’t play with a traditional striker hence why Firmino is far from the “weakest” when he is prob one of the best in that role in the league

I would have thought after 5 years now people would understand the role that he plays
		
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The conversation at the time was about goalscorers. Not what else strikers bring to the game. 

I have already conceded he helps facilitate your style. Butbstill belove you could play just as well without him. Something you quite often do with Jota.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 5, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			The conversation at the time was about goalscorers. Not what else strikers bring to the game.

I have already conceded he helps facilitate your style. Butbstill belove you could play just as well without him. Something you quite often do with Jota.
		
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Agreed. I think it is very unlikely that the success of Liverpool heavily relies in what Firminho brings to the team. He plays a good role within the team, but he would be pretty easily replaced. I'd also say Mane could be replaced without much stress.

However, I suspect if Liverpool lost Salah or Vin Dijk, that would be a massive blow to them, they'd be very difficult to replace. Arguably TAA as well for his crossing ability.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 5, 2021)

Got a feeling Norwich get their first win tomorrow at Brentford & 5/1 is BIG 😬


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## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I completely believe that is a fair point, well certainly pre Ole in terms of pissing money up the wall. Transfers since have been better, though prices often inflated when clubs as rich as United bid for a player.

The point you make is backing up my view however in this specific discussion. We rely on players like Ronaldo and Bruno, to make up for shambolic team play. *When people try and say "Ronaldo is the problem" it is almost laughable*, as ridiculous as me trying to tell Liverpool fans Fowler was the problem in the 90's.

United have, quite possible, the best No. 9 in the world, even at 36. I loved Ruud Van Nistlerooy, yet I still believe Ronaldo is just an absolute genius of a footballer. That is one massive tick in terms of what every good football team needs, or at least would love. If a team performs worse after getting such a player, especially when that player is producing the goods, to me it has nothing to do with that player making the team worse. It is a massive stain on the manager for being unable to get anywhere near the potential of that team. But, as I said and others to, performance wise we were pretty damn poor last year as well, and largely got away with it. So, we may actually not be worse at all than last year generally, it is just we have made slightly less comebacks, whilst Liverpool and Chelsea have improved hugely.
		
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Inflated prices always happens when big clubs come in for players, not just yernited. 

It's also not coincidental that since Ronaldo has turned up at OT, Fernandes' performances have been below par. 

Ronaldo isn't a #9 like RVN or Any of the real out an out #9's we've seen in the past, he's a luxurious free role type of player with lots of ability and  magic.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 5, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Inflated prices always happens when big clubs come in for players, not just yernited.

It's also not coincidental that since Ronaldo has turned up at OT, Fernandes' performances have been below par.

Ronaldo isn't a #9 like RVN or Any of the real out an out #9's we've seen in the past, he's a luxurious free role type of player with lots of ability and  magic.
		
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Firstly, that is why I said rich clubs like United, not just United. Though, as United are richer than most, other teams lick their lips about how much money may come their way.

Also, Ronaldo is not a #9 like anyone else. He is much much better, but he is playing the #9 role and there is no one better to play there for us for the next 2-3 years.

Bruno's performances dipped long before Ronaldo showed up. He was unbelievable when he first turned up. However, he has had many frustrating games since, along with the rest of the team. However, he still ends up contributing to goals in games, so it often masks his general performance. If United win, the highlights reel is often favourable to Bruno. If they don't, he maybe doesn't look so effective. Not really his fault, the midfielders / wingers around him cannot work with him to keep the ball moving and controlling the tempo of a game, so it is often up to.him to try and pull some magic out of the bag. However, I certainly do not agree Bruno's performances have dipped compared to last season


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## fundy (Nov 5, 2021)

reffing as bad as ever, how does El Ghazi not get a second yellow for pulling Livramento back


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			reffing as bad as ever, how does El Ghazi not get a second yellow for pulling Livramento back
		
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That’s another yellow he should have had as well


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## fundy (Nov 5, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s another yellow he should have had as well
		
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some dive that on last warning isnt it, be amazed if he comes out for the 2nd half (assuming he makes it to HT lol)


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## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2021)

Painful second half this. 

Can't blame it on the ref (our second half drop) But if he (ref) could do his job. It would have been a much easier job.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 5, 2021)

What's happened to Homer? Haven't seen him post anything for ages. I'm watching the FA Cup game and we've got a lad called Sylvester Jasper on loan from Fulham who looks like he could be a decent prospect.


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## IainP (Nov 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			What's happened to Homer? Haven't seen him post anything for ages. I'm watching the FA Cup game and we've got a lad called Sylvester Jasper on loan from Fulham who looks like he could be a decent prospect.
		
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https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/golf-random-irritations.102102/post-2418355
👍


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## adam6177 (Nov 5, 2021)

Not sure I've seen a poorer refereeing performance than this saints villa game tonight.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Ahem,

RVP won the league for Fergies final season. Unless you believe that squad was decent…..

I agree that a good system can be as important. Liverpool for example have played some of the best footy for the last 5 years with arguably the weakest actual striker. But most good teams would still improve if they had a 30 goal a season player.
		
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Correct and will no doubt be many other examples of a title winning team having a high scorer - I've already alluded to that, but my main point is that a high scoring striker doesnt necessarily mean that one equals the other.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Would it be healthier for the team if Ole asked Ronaldo to score less?
		
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That doesnt deserve an answer.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Very much agree with this. The problem, there are a few, with lumping all of your eggs in one basket with one player is what happens when that player has an off day, gets marked out of the game etc. How does the team respond when their default is to point everything towards that one player and that player is not scoring in that match?

Lineker was a great for us but we were better as a team with the combination of Gray / Sharp or Sharp / Heath.
		
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Exactly.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			But, what would it matter if it was about "balance"

Last season Salah got 22, Mane 11 and Firmino 9 in the Premier League. That is a total of 42 goals. So, if Ronaldo played instead of Firmino, what would it matter if Ronaldo go 20, Salah 15 and Mane 7? It is still 42 goals for the team.

However, in reality, I could see Ronaldo getting at least 30 in Liverpools team. Even if that means Salah and Mane got a little less, say 18 and 7 goals, that is still 55 goals, 13 more than last season. And, in actual fact, would Ronaldo not put more fear into opposition defences, and along with being a better player than Firminho actually create MORE opportunities for Salah and Mane to score?

Look back to the Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney trio, who scored 57 goals in 07-08 PL and 79 in all competitions. They all benefited each other. So, although Ronaldo plays in a different position now, he is still a hell of a player and I personally think he would make Liverpool immensely better. The thought actually makes me feel ill.
		
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No doubt Ronaldo in our front 3 would increase HIS goal scoring figures, but how much might it transfer into results due to the press potentially not working which I think everyone would agree is our biggest weapon.

Hasn't Ronaldo increased the goalscoring stat of your prime striker for this season - I would think absolutely.

However:-

Has Fernandes figures gone down?

Are results suffering?

Has your league position suffered?

Goals are one of the biggest metrics, but they arent the be all and end all.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No doubt Ronaldo in our front 3 would increase HIS goal scoring figures, but how much might it transfer into results due to the press potentially not working which I think everyone would agree is our biggest weapon.

Hasn't Ronaldo increased the goalscoring stat of your prime striker for this season - I would think absolutely.

However:-

Has Fernandes figures gone down?

Are results suffering?

Has your league position suffered?

Goals are one of the biggest metrics, but they arent the be all and end all.
		
Click to expand...

All those questions have been answered by me, or at least explained from my point of view. 

Having had a glance at a Bruno's stats, his scoring rate and assist rate in PL is about same as last season. 

Our league position is suffering, but if you think we'd be second without Ronaldo then I think you are very very wrong. Liverpool and Chelsea have improved greatly.

We also relied on coming back from losing positions last year. That is never a sustainable approach to winning games. Great to have that ability in the bag, but if you need to nearly every gamez you'll eventually come unstuck. 

Some seem convinced that because we are in a worse position than last year, it must be because of Ronaldo. It is a lovely conspiracy theory. I believe the exact opposite is almost true. If Utd DIDN'T have Ronaldo, they would be even worse off than they are now.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			All those questions have been answered by me, or at least explained from my point of view.

Having had a glance at a Bruno's stats, his scoring rate and assist rate in PL is about same as last season.

Our league position is suffering, but if you think we'd be second without Ronaldo then I think you are very very wrong. Liverpool and Chelsea have improved greatly.

We also relied on coming back from losing positions last year. That is never a sustainable approach to winning games. Great to have that ability in the bag, but if you need to nearly every gamez you'll eventually come unstuck.

Some seem convinced that because we are in a worse position than last year, it must be because of Ronaldo. It is a lovely conspiracy theory. I believe the exact opposite is almost true. *If Utd DIDN'T have Ronaldo, they would be even worse off than they are now*.
		
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I disagree with that, though you're worth your opinion.

To my eyes, OGS has changed Yerniteds setup/tactics to accommodate Ronaldo but it's failing and the cracks in the team are bigger than ever. 

I'm not blaming Ronaldo per se, but he is part of the problem imo. Its not his fault. It's upto the manager and coaching staff to try and find the tactics to  get the best out of him and the team.

I'm not sure 352 will work long term with that squad though.

I'm logging off now, I need to be at work for 5 past De Gea......sorry 5 past 8 😉


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I disagree with that, though you're worth your opinion.

To my eyes, OGS has changed Yerniteds setup/tactics to accommodate Ronaldo but it's failing and the cracks in the team are bigger than ever.

I'm not blaming Ronaldo per se, but he is part of the problem imo. Its not his fault. It's upto the manager and coaching staff to try and find the tactics to  get the best out of him and the team.

I'm not sure 352 will work long term with that squad though.

I'm logging off now, I need to be at work for 5 past De Gea......sorry 5 past 8 😉
		
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Maybe it’s a case of keeping Ronaldo fit to improve Utd, Ronaldo’s goals along side an improving Utd team would contend with the top 3, just as Salah’s goals and your team performances have kept yous at the top.

Take both out of the 2 teams and they’d struggle to contend.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Painful second half this.

Can't blame it on the ref (our second half drop) But if he (ref) could do his job. It would have been a much easier job.
		
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You were excellent first half, without making the chances your possession deserved, but second half you disappeared and withdrew. Good signs though and you are on a good run.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2021)

Is Luke Shaw still the best LB? 🤭🤭🤭


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## pokerjoke (Nov 6, 2021)

Unfortunately men vs boys
Many don’t rate Fred and at times I’m one of them,but his work rate is phenomenal.
Doing his own,Fernandes and Greenwood’s running.
Once again a shocking performance.
Embarrassing and quite unbelievable how good players have turned into scared rabbits caught in headlights.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2021)

What is Shaw doing there ?
Just put it out for a corner.
De Gea caught out but it’s Shaws fault imo.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 6, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Is Luke Shaw still the best LB? 🤭🤭🤭
		
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Really don’t know what’s happened to him Stu 
Another Shaw/ Maguire shocker


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2021)

At least they have Keane in the studio this week. Never fear, only 2 at half time. Ole can now give his inspirational team talk, United can win this 5-2.......


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## DaveR (Nov 6, 2021)

Don't worry all you yernited fans, the prodigal son will score in the 90+3 and 90+6 minutes to save your bacon 😉


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## Piece (Nov 6, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Is Luke Shaw still the best LB? 🤭🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

Haha. I was about to post the same thing 🤣


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## chrisd (Nov 6, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			At least they have Keane in the studio this week. Never fear, only 2 at half time. Ole can now give his inspirational team talk, United can win this 5-2.......
		
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You really must stop smoking that funny smelling stuff 🤣🤣


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## Billysboots (Nov 6, 2021)

Just discussing the forthcoming United managerial vacancy with a mate and he reminded me that Steve Bruce is available.

I wonder if he can still play centre half…….


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2021)

Luke Shaw is flat out, takes a few minutes out, resumes playing. 5 or so minutes later he goes off as he is no feeling right. How the heck was he allowed to keep playing after the initial head incident? There is even a protocol that allows a substitute to be used. You wonder what football has learned is this area?

Back to the game, it's as one sided as the liverpool game, just without the ruthless streak.


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## BrianM (Nov 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			What is Shaw doing there ?
Just put it out for a corner.
De Gea caught out but it’s Shaws fault imo.
		
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The final part of the jigsaw so to speak was poor on Shaw and De Gea’s part but in the whole build up there was no urgency or pressing by any united player, that’s the real problem in my opinion.


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## Billysboots (Nov 6, 2021)

Lovely reception for Van de Beek. Rarely have I ever had the level of sympathy for a footballer that I have for that lad. I cannot believe that, even if Solskjaer didn’t want him, he hasn’t been given a fair crack of the whip. He can’t possibly do any worse that the man he’s replaced.


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## Billysboots (Nov 6, 2021)

BrianM said:



			The final part of the jigsaw so to speak was poor on Shaw and De Gea’s part but in the whole build up there was no urgency or pressing by any united player, that’s the real problem in my opinion.
		
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Not sure too much blame can be attached to de Gea for City’s second. The absence of pressing aside, that’s Shaw’s error.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Luke Shaw is flat out, takes a few minutes out, resumes playing. 5 or so minutes later he goes off as he is no feeling right. How the heck was he allowed to keep playing after the initial head incident? There is even a protocol that allows a substitute to be used. You wonder what football has learned is this area?

Back to the game, it's as one sided as the liverpool game, just without the ruthless streak.
		
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Perhaps the Manchester Utd medical staff are as inept as the coaching staff.

Hopefully they'll sack Ole now.


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## Billysboots (Nov 6, 2021)

Shocking. Yet again. City have been in complete control from the very first minute. We have not laid a glove on them.

Just how long are the board prepared to put up with this slide? Absolute dross.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 6, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Lovely reception for Van de Beek. Rarely have I ever had the level of sympathy for a footballer that I have for that lad. I cannot believe that, even if Solskjaer didn’t want him, he hasn’t been given a fair crack of the whip. He can’t possibly do any worse that the man he’s replaced.
		
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Agreed 
Lucky they didn’t score from his first pass of the game though.
Time to give him a run.
Sancho just out of his depth,I feel he’s just afraid to try anything attacking for the fear of failure.


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## Beezerk (Nov 6, 2021)

Would that be classed as being schooled then? 🙀


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## Billysboots (Nov 6, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Would that be classed as being schooled then? 🙀
		
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Yep. United have schooled the rest of the Premier League how not to press, how to have no shape, no system, no cohesion, how to make individual unforced mistakes, how to waste millions of pounds worth of talent, and how to stick by a manager who is absolutely, unbelievably clueless.

😉


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Yep. United have schooled the rest of the Premier League how not to press, how to have no shape, no system, no cohesion, how to make individual unforced mistakes, how to waste millions of pounds worth of talent, and how to stick by a manager who is absolutely, unbelievably clueless.

😉
		
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I was quite shocked at the lack of movement by your front men , it looks like Burtons window .
They are so easy to mark.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2021)

Jesus. 

Sourness just won’t ever debate will he.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2021)

BrianM said:



			The final part of the jigsaw so to speak was poor on Shaw and De Gea’s part but in the whole build up there was no urgency or pressing by any united player, that’s the real problem in my opinion.
		
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Yes agree but that’s schoolboy stuff from Shaw.
Dosnt know where his man is. You can’t let that go past you.
De Gea is expecting Shaw to deal with it so I don’t really blame him but he should be covering his post quicker.


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## Billysboots (Nov 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I was quite shocked at the lack of movement by your front men , it looks like Burtons window .
They are so easy to mark.
		
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Greenwood needs to be taken out of the firing line for his own good. Quite aside from his lack of effort, I remain far from convinced that playing him on the right adds anything to this team - his first move is always to cut inside, and that must be so easy for a defender to deal with. It’s time for Jadon Sancho to get a run in the side in that position, that being, after all, why United spent £73m.

The same goes for Fred and/or McTominay. Get at least one of them out of that side and give Van de Beek his chance. And what are we doing with Lingard? He’s taken a massive step backwards by staying at this club.

I’m sick of it. Sick of a manager who continues to rigidly hope that the same players can somehow turn in different performances despite the very obvious failings of his management. If Solskjaer is so tactically inept that he cannot figure out even a basic style of play, I’d at least like to hope that he can shuffle his playing pack once in a while. Do something different, please. The boredom and predictability is killing me.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Greenwood needs to be taken out of the firing line for his own good. Quite aside from his lack of effort, I remain far from convinced that playing him on the right adds anything to this team - his first move is always to cut inside, and that must be so easy for a defender to deal with. It’s time for Jadon Sancho to get a run in the side in that position, that being, after all, why United spent £73m.

The same goes for Fred and/or McTominay. Get at least one of them out of that side and give Van de Beek his chance. And what are we doing with Lingard? He’s taken a massive step backwards by staying at this club.

I’m sick of it. Sick of a manager who continues to rigidly hope that the same players can somehow turn in different performances despite the very obvious failings of his management. If Solskjaer is so tactically inept that he cannot figure out even a basic style of play, I’d at least like to hope that he can shuffle his playing pack once in a while. Do something different, please. The boredom and predictability is killing me.
		
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Should not kick a man when he’s down.
But everyone else is loving it.


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## Cherry13 (Nov 6, 2021)

Few places reporting Howe deal on the verge of collapse due to negotiations with backroom staff.  
It’s very messy at the moment.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Greenwood needs to be taken out of the firing line for his own good. Quite aside from his lack of effort, I remain far from convinced that playing him on the right adds anything to this team - his first move is always to cut inside, and that must be so easy for a defender to deal with. It’s time for Jadon Sancho to get a run in the side in that position, that being, after all, why United spent £73m.

The same goes for Fred and/or McTominay. Get at least one of them out of that side and give Van de Beek his chance. And what are we doing with Lingard? He’s taken a massive step backwards by staying at this club.

I’m sick of it. Sick of a manager who continues to rigidly hope that the same players can somehow turn in different performances despite the very obvious failings of his management. If Solskjaer is so tactically inept that he cannot figure out even a basic style of play, I’d at least like to hope that he can shuffle his playing pack once in a while. Do something different, please. The boredom and predictability is killing me.
		
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Here here


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Jesus.

Sourness just won’t ever debate will he.
		
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I thought his performance was worse than United's .............................. but at least he did show some passion!
Abject performance, even worse than against Liverpool.
A team so utterly devoid of confidence and it seems that none of them want the ball.
They're all so scared of making a mistake that they're just not prepared to take a chance.
VDB's lack of game time is bordering on abuse.
I think/hope this was Ole's last game in charge, the same goes for most of the coaching team.
The international break has, I think, come at the right time for United.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Should not kick a man when he’s down.
But everyone else is loving it.
		
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Never thought I'd find myself feeling sorry for a United fan! Despite that - long may it continue


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 6, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Got a feeling Norwich get their first win tomorrow at Brentford & 5/1 is BIG 😬
		
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😊 up the Canaries


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## DaveR (Nov 6, 2021)

Do you think that female sports commentators and analysts feel embarrassed that they are only there to tick boxes? I've yet to hear of any sports fan that thinks any of them are better than their male counterparts 🤔


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## JamesR (Nov 6, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Do you think that female sports commentators and analysts feel embarrassed that they are only there to tick boxes? I've yet to hear of any sports fan that thinks any of them are better than their male counterparts 🤔
		
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I like Maggie Alphonsea on rugby, but the football commentators are rank


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 6, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Do you think that female sports commentators and analysts feel embarrassed that they are only there to tick boxes? I've yet to hear of any sports fan that thinks any of them are better than their male counterparts 🤔
		
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Big fan of Kelly Somers & Alex Scott 🤤


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## DaveR (Nov 6, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Big fan of Kelly Somers & Alex Scott 🤤
		
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Perv 🤣


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## Beezerk (Nov 6, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Few places reporting Howe deal on the verge of collapse due to negotiations with backroom staff.  
It’s very messy at the moment.
		
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Insane, apparently he’s very close to his backroom staff and won’t take a job unless they all come.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 6, 2021)

Anyone noticed that Lee Hendrie & that annoying Scouse female pundit on Sky Sports are morphing into the same person?


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## DaveR (Nov 6, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Insane, apparently he’s very close to his backroom staff and won’t take a job unless they all come.
		
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Howe isn't up to the job. If he doesn't take it you've dodged a bullet.


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## chrisd (Nov 6, 2021)

JamesR said:



			I like Maggie Alphonsea on rugby, but the football commentators are rank
		
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They are not THAT good!


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 6, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Do you think that female sports commentators and analysts feel embarrassed that they are only there to tick boxes? I've yet to hear of any sports fan that thinks any of them are better than their male counterparts 🤔
		
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I agree entirely. However I was discussing the very same at our Golf club today with a passionate fn who will any footie, he is a Spurs fan btw. His take was that women are better because they have to try harder and do their homework before coming on TV


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## Cherry13 (Nov 6, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Howe isn't up to the job. If he doesn't take it you've dodged a bullet.
		
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Better than this dross.  Clark playing cm, shelvey dropping into left cb to try and spray passes to the right back… it’s utter turgid rubbish. If we keep the current team we’ll beat derbys record.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Better than this dross.  Clark playing cm, shelvey dropping into left cb to try and spray passes to the right back… it’s utter turgid rubbish. If we keep the current team we’ll beat derbys record.
		
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Howe is sat next to Staveley at the game I believe. You have to think it is a done deal if that is the case. It's a very public display.


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## Cherry13 (Nov 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Howe is sat next to Staveley at the game I believe. You have to think it is a done deal if that is the case. It's a very public display.
		
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Aye, Howe and tindall there. Which as you say should be a positive sign.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 6, 2021)

Pray for me, I'm off to a wedding with a scouser and a manc.

Its in a glass building about 200 yards away from Goodison, which on bonfire night isnt the safest place to be, being that near so much wood and in such a combustible situation.


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Pray for me, I'm off to a wedding with a scouser and a manc.

Its in a glass building about 200 yards away from Goodison, which on bonfire night isnt the safest place to be, being that near so much wood and in such a combustible situation.

Click to expand...

Stay safe Pete, you masking up?


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2021)

Rumours doing the round that Norwich have sacked Farke despite him getting their first win today. 

Trying to get Wilder before he goes to Boro to replace Warnock?


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Rumours doing the round that Norwich have sacked Farke despite him getting their first win today.

Trying to get Wilder before he goes to Boro to replace Warnock?
		
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They can always have Ole!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Rumours doing the round that Norwich have sacked Farke despite him getting their first win today.

Trying to get Wilder before he goes to Boro to replace Warnock?
		
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Seems it’s true - they win and then sack him 🤷‍♂️ Maybe trying to get Bruce or Warnock before Man Utd get in there first


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Rumours doing the round that Norwich have sacked Farke despite him getting their first win today.

Trying to get Wilder before he goes to Boro to replace Warnock?
		
Click to expand...

They’ll go down regardless of who they get imo.
Personally think they should have stuck with Farke to get them back up.


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## 4LEX (Nov 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			I thought his performance was worse than United's .............................. but at least he did show some passion!
Abject performance, even worse than against Liverpool.
A team so utterly devoid of confidence and it seems that none of them want the ball.
They're all so scared of making a mistake that they're just not prepared to take a chance.
VDB's lack of game time is bordering on abuse.
I think/hope this was Ole's last game in charge, the same goes for most of the coaching team.
The international break has, I think, come at the right time for United.
		
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I don't want to say I was right but this has been coming for years Slime. The club is rotten from the top to the bottom. The owners, Woodward, clueless DoF, Ole and his newbie coaching staff who are all yes men, a large number of players who just smile, put in 50% effort and pick up the wages. Sir Alex is a toxic influence too, the club need to move forward from him. He's almost 80 and suffered a serious stroke, he should be nowhere near the club in a capacity to influence anything these days.

Gary Neville was still making excuses for Ole after the game by saying he should stay until the summer and then the club needs a reset. It needs a reset now. A caretaker for the rest of the season to secure CL football and a true world class manager lined up for the summer. Due to the quality of the playing squad, the side even under Ole could rally, finish 4th and win The FA Cup. The situation would then repeat next season. If you don't get sacked after losing at home to Liverpool and City 7-0 in total you know it's finished.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 6, 2021)

Just seen game on MOTD.
How the hell  did City not get a penalty. What happened with VAR.
How Long can Utd stay with Ole.


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## Slime (Nov 7, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Just seen game on MOTD.
How the hell  did City not get a penalty. What happened with VAR.
*How Long can Utd stay with Ole.*

Click to expand...

Hopefully, no more than twelve more hours.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Just seen game on MOTD.
How the hell  did City not get a penalty. What happened with VAR.
How Long can Utd stay with Ole.
		
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Because Telles won the ball, as was shown in the many replays when watching it live. Match of the Day just skimmed past it. Probably cos there was no need, as whether it was a penalty or not meant nothing to the game. United were well beaten well before then.


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## rudebhoy (Nov 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Howe is sat next to Staveley at the game I believe. You have to think it is a done deal if that is the case. It's a very public display.
		
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Would be funny if he took the Norwich job instead. Closer to home and no pressure. Didnt he pack in at Burnley saying he was homesick?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 7, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Would be funny if he took the Norwich job instead. Closer to home and no pressure. Didnt he pack in at Burnley saying he was homesick?
		
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Norwich is a good job for someone but it would be strange if he took that instead of the Toon job. It's a chance to mould a club and team and he will be given cash to spend that Norwich can only dream of. Can he really say no to that?

I get your point though, cruel man 😁


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

Keeper sent off. Outfield player goes in goal. Free kick outside the box. I think everyone in the world who takes that free kick would either shoot, or float one in in front of keeper. Not Shelvey. He floats one out wide, and free kick comes to nothing. Smart lad.


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## rudebhoy (Nov 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Norwich is a good job for someone but it would be strange if he took that instead of the Toon job. It's a chance to mould a club and team and he will be given cash to spend that Norwich can only dream of. Can he really say no to that?

I get your point though, cruel man 😁
		
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Am far from convinced he is the right guy for Newcastle. Keeping Bournemouth in the Prem for 4 years was laudable but Newcastle will be expecting much more than that. I'd be very surprised if he lasted a year there.

He messed Celtic around for 3 months, before turning them down due to a combination of him not being able to persuade all of his old coaching staff to come, and Celtic's refusal to let him pick his own boss (DOF).

Wouldn't be the greatest surprise to see a similar scenario play out again.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 7, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Because Telles won the ball, as was shown in the many replays when watching it live. Match of the Day just skimmed past it. Probably cos there was no need, as whether it was a penalty or not meant nothing to the game. United were well beaten well before then.
		
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I was at the rugby club all day and only saw the bits on MOTD.The coverage was woeful. I had a natter last night with a lad that went to the game. He is spitting feathers at the Utd performances.


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## Billysboots (Nov 7, 2021)

Danny Murphy, like or loathe him (I like him), hit the nail on the head. If United want to compete with the likes of City, Chelsea and Liverpool “they need to change the manager.”

I sincerely hope the club use the international break wisely.


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## Hobbit (Nov 7, 2021)

A different perspective on Utd’s woes? They are 5th, and 4th is their only realistic ambition at present. West Ham is the team above them, and Utd are playing at that level.

Can Utd realistically compete with City, Chelsea and Liverpool at present? No, they don’t have the squad. They have a decent keeper and centre back pairing, all of which are under pressure because of a dire midfield AND it is dire but it is competitive with the rest of the division. Goals for is in spitting distance of the top 3. A better midfield will improve the defence and attack.

Utd are close to the top three but the points difference over 30+ games will make it look worse than it is. And sometimes you only look as good as the opposition let you. Utd were dire against Liverpool and City… was that all down lack of a cohesive plan, or was that all they were allowed to look like?

Would a different manager improve the midfield? Barely. You aren’t going to improve Pogba, the 2 youngsters have the potential and the fire but they can’t compete without a Scholes or Kean to lead them.

Utd need that 4th spot for Champion’s League football so that they can buy some midfield leaders. Sort midfield and then there’s the potential to compete for top 3.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 7, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Am far from convinced he is the right guy for Newcastle. Keeping Bournemouth in the Prem for 4 years was laudable but Newcastle will be expecting much more than that. I'd be very surprised if he lasted a year there.

He messed Celtic around for 3 months, before turning them down due to a combination of him not being able to persuade all of his old coaching staff to come, and Celtic's refusal to let him pick his own boss (DOF).

Wouldn't be the greatest surprise to see a similar scenario play out again.
		
Click to expand...

I would see him as an intermediate guy. Steady the ship now, build a team from scratch, shake up the academy and u23 structure, get the team to top half in the next couple of years. A bigger name then comes in to take them to that next level. The big boys don't want to spend 2-3 years building a team so that will be his role.

If he does brilliantly then he stays in the job. If not it is no great surprise when he gets moved on. I can see him being good for this next stage though.


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## PNWokingham (Nov 7, 2021)

Man Utd women are taking it to the Tottenham. Got more balls than their men's team!


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 7, 2021)

Yet another Club looking for a Manager in The Premiership!


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## stefanovic (Nov 7, 2021)

£5 million payoff???


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2021)

Geez Aubamayang, just have to trap the ball sigh


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 7, 2021)

Sorry to disappoint Man U fans.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 7, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Yet another Club looking for a Manager in The Premiership!
		
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Disappointing really. I was thoroughly enjoying their current run of form!


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## stefanovic (Nov 7, 2021)

So was I.


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2021)

sigh


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Danny Murphy, like or loathe him (I like him), hit the nail on the head. If United want to compete with the likes of City, Chelsea and Liverpool “they need to change the manager.”

I sincerely hope the club use the international break wisely.
		
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Utd need a new manager, without a doubt. If their manager was another Norwegian with the same managerial background as Ole, but with no previous attachment to club, he would have been gone long long long ago (well, he would not have been there in first place). Certainly would have very little support, or none, from fans. From a tactical standpoint, quite possibly worst in league (still no idea what his gameplan is).

But, Neville has a point about sacking him now. Absolutely fine if the board think the long term successor they want is ready to come in mid season. However, I suspect that is not the case.

So, by sacking Ole, you bring in a caretaker. By doing so early in season, there is a chance the caretaker could improve things and even have a strong finish to season. However, oddly that creates a dilemma. At end of season, do board stick to their long term plan and bring in someone who they see as a long term fit? That could backfire if players seem to have really played well under caretaker, especially if the long term guy then gets off to a weak start. Or, they could say the caretaker has done so well they could extend his stay. However, that could easily be the Ole situation all over again. 

So, I can see board sticking with Ole until at least last few weeks of season. Bring in a caretaker then, when even a few wins to finish won't be enough to convince anyone that guy should be full time manager. BUT, with Woodward leaving very soon, once that is done the new guy might decide to act decisively then. Make a statement and get rid of Ole then.

Ultimately, I want Ole replaced. And I want it done before the next game. But, I can see why it won't happen. It is that desperate, I would also be intrigued to see Bruce come in as caretaker. No way I want him as long term manager, but I am sure he is more tactically aware than Ole.

Also worth noting, it is not just Ole, but the entire coaching team are probably not good enough. You can be a good manager without being a world leading tactical genius. As long as your clear in what you want, have great coaches to work with, manage all the pieces to the jigsaw to get the team working to it's full potential and have the charisma to inspire the players,  then that is effectively the definition of a great manager in any company. So, I think we need a big change is several non playing positions.


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## davemc1 (Nov 7, 2021)

4th maybe their goal now, but it certainly wasn’t at the beginning of the season. 

Ole’s no good. He had a chance to bolster their midfield but choose to spend £73m on a winger he didn’t need and that he doesn’t play. That’s all on him. 



Hobbit said:



			A different perspective on Utd’s woes? They are 5th, and 4th is their only realistic ambition at present. West Ham is the team above them, and Utd are playing at that level.

Can Utd realistically compete with City, Chelsea and Liverpool at present? No, they don’t have the squad. They have a decent keeper and centre back pairing, all of which are under pressure because of a dire midfield AND it is dire but it is competitive with the rest of the division. Goals for is in spitting distance of the top 3. A better midfield will improve the defence and attack.

Utd are close to the top three but the points difference over 30+ games will make it look worse than it is. And sometimes you only look as good as the opposition let you. Utd were dire against Liverpool and City… was that all down lack of a cohesive plan, or was that all they were allowed to look like?

Would a different manager improve the midfield? Barely. You aren’t going to improve Pogba, the 2 youngsters have the potential and the fire but they can’t compete without a Scholes or Kean to lead them.

Utd need that 4th spot for Champion’s League football so that they can buy some midfield leaders. Sort midfield and then there’s the potential to compete for top 3.
		
Click to expand...


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## Hobbit (Nov 7, 2021)

PNWokingham said:



			Man Utd women are taking it to the Tottenham. Got more balls than their men's team!
		
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Er, Utd beat Spurs 0-3 a week ago…


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Er, Utd beat Spurs 0-3 a week ago…
		
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With Nuno at the wheel back then that wasn't an achievement


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2021)

great finish from Smith Rowe  would like a second sooner rather than later


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 7, 2021)

Poor defending by Watford but definitely a controversial goal. Watford put the ball out as one of their players was down. Arsenal then didn't give it back from the throw in. And a probable foul on Sarr as Watford tried to clear before Arsenal won the ball and scored.


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Poor defending by Watford but definitely a controversial goal. Watford put the ball out as one of their players was down. Arsenal then didn't give it back from the throw in. And a probable foul on Sarr as Watford tried to clear before Arsenal won the ball and scored.
		
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Why would arsenal give the ball back for a Watford playing diving and staying down?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			With Nuno at the wheel back then that wasn't an achievement
		
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It was with Ole at the wheel


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			Why would arsenal give the ball back for a Watford playing diving and staying down?
		
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I don't know, why would the ref give a free kick to Arsenal for the Arsenal player diving on the edge of his own box and staying down? And it wasn't a dive by the Watford player. It was a 50/50 challenge that the Arsenal player won and the Watford player came off second best.


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## rudebhoy (Nov 7, 2021)

Verbal agreement for Brendan Rodgers to replace Ole being widely reported.
Would be a massive upgrade.


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## paddyc (Nov 7, 2021)

Auba is avin an absolute  stinker get Martinelli on


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## Billysboots (Nov 7, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Verbal agreement for Brendan Rodgers to replace Ole being widely reported.
Would be a massive upgrade.
		
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Where have you seen/heard that?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Verbal agreement for Brendan Rodgers to replace Ole being widely reported.
Would be a massive upgrade.
		
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Something that would interest me a lot


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## Billysboots (Nov 7, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Something that would interest me a lot
		
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I’m not precious about his previous Liverpool links. He’s a good manager who has done a really good job at Leicester. If he’s good enough, he’s good enough.

Would United fans turn down the chance to have Klopp, just because he has managed Liverpool? I hope not.


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## paddyc (Nov 7, 2021)

Maitland-Niles top drawer today, always rated this lad. Would have been a travesty to let him leave  Hopefully going to get more game time now


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m not precious about his previous Liverpool links. He’s a good manager who has done a really good job at Leicester. If he’s good enough, he’s good enough.

Would United fans turn down the chance to have Klopp, just because he has managed Liverpool? I hope not.
		
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Haha, certainly wouldn't turn Klopp down, or Pep. Just will never happen.

Rogers seems a good guy, a calm guy. I imagine he gets respect from his players and he seems to play a good brand of football. Certainly, his CV is much better than Ole. The only thing lacking is he didn't score in the 99 Champions League final. As such, Teddy Sheringham may get the job next


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It was with Ole at the wheel
		
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Of spurs it wasn't........


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## paddyc (Nov 7, 2021)

Jack Wilshere brilliant punditry 🤣🤣👎


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## Reemul (Nov 7, 2021)

I think I am in the minority here but I really like Sue Smith being in the studio, talks well, knows her stuff, most of the women (all the rest are pretty rubbish) however there are plenty of recent male additions that are also awful.


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## DanFST (Nov 7, 2021)

Hilarious from Liverpool.


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## Billysboots (Nov 7, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Hilarious from Liverpool.
		
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I bet they wish they could play Man United every week.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

Interesting start from VAR


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## Billysboots (Nov 7, 2021)

The rascals have been busy on Wikipedia!


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Maitland-Niles top drawer today, always rated this lad. Would have been a travesty to let him leave  Hopefully going to get more game time now
		
Click to expand...


im a fan but hes not done himself any favours the last year or two on demanding to play in midfield then eventually claiming hell play wherever he is asked, hed have played 50 more games for us already if hed been prepared to play at RB 2 years ago where arguably hes a better option

good to see us get by without Partey as hes becoming more and more curcial to us (and good to see what January will be like without him again)


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

West Ham CB in the wars a bit , game hasn’t really got going yet with the stoppages. Hope there isn’t a serious injury with his knee .


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## 2blue (Nov 7, 2021)

Seriously bad 'challenge on Ogbonna goes unrecognized by Ref, VAR & commentary team. It was such an unnecessary & deliberate jump into the player that caused the injury.


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## DanFST (Nov 7, 2021)

2blue said:



			Seriously bad 'challenge on Ogbonna goes unrecognized by Ref, VAR & commentary team. It was such an unnecessary & deliberate jump into the player that caused the injury.
		
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It was deliberate, but it wasn’t anything, just unlucky with the elbow. 

No foul for me.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 7, 2021)

5.9 for Salah for the dive on the edge of the box there.


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## Billysboots (Nov 7, 2021)

Any chance someone could ask Jamie Carragher to just talk normally when he co-commentates? He permanently sounds as though he’s straining whilst taking a 💩.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

2blue said:



			Seriously bad 'challenge on Ogbonna goes unrecognized by Ref, VAR & commentary team. It was such an unnecessary & deliberate jump into the player that caused the injury.
		
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😂😂😂😂
it wasn’t even a foul - surprised you didn’t mention the Cresswell tackle on Henderson 🙄

soft free kick against Salah but what a lovely strike straight into top bins



Billysboots said:



			Any chance someone could ask Jamie Carragher to just talk normally when he co-commentates? He permanently sounds as though he’s straining whilst taking a 💩.
		
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He is awful when he gets “excited” and it gets screechy


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## 2blue (Nov 7, 2021)

DanFST said:



*It was deliberate,* but it wasn’t anything, just unlucky with the elbow.

No foul for me.
		
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A deliberate act that causes injury on an opponent has to be 'unlucky' ie yellow or red card for the perpetrator not the one on the receiving end!!!!  Stupid otherwise!!


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## 2blue (Nov 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂😂😂
*it wasn’t even a foul* - surprised you didn’t mention the Cresswell tackle on Henderson 🙄

soft free kick against Salah but what a lovely strike straight into top bins



He is awful when he gets “excited” and it gets screechy
		
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Hahaha... comedy gold.... deliberate act causing injury is not a foul. You must have dust-bin lid sized blinkers.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			soft free kick against Salah but what a lovely strike straight into top bins
		
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It wasn't a "soft freekick" LP. Salah dived/cheated to get the free kick. Let's call it what it is - cheating. And yes, every team has players that do it, but in this instance it was Salah that cheated.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

2blue said:



			Hahaha... comedy gold.... deliberate act causing injury is not a foul. You must have dust-bin lid sized blinkers. 

Click to expand...

yes he deliberatly jumped up and turned his back to the player to ensure he didn’t get hit with the ball 😂😂😂😂


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## DanFST (Nov 7, 2021)

Jota is an embarrassment.

The Salah FK was soft, but a foul. That yellow for Soucek is just cheating.


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## 2blue (Nov 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			yes he *deliberately jumped up and turned his back* to the player to ensure he didn’t get hit with the ball 😂😂😂😂
		
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So player '*deliberately jumped up and turned his back'* causing injury to the player & that's considered, 'just bad luck'!!!!  Best you stick to hockey, me thinks.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2021)

2blue said:



			So player '*deliberately jumped up and turned his back'* causing injury to the player & that's considered, 'just bad luck'!!!!  Best you stick to hockey, me thinks.
		
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The deliberate turning of his back to protect himself isn’t the issue. If there’s a question on his actions it’s why his elbow came backwards and upwards in to the defenders face.

Both could be down to 10 as the Cresswell challenge was a definite red.


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## 2blue (Nov 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The deliberate turning of his back to protect himself isn’t the issue. If there’s a question on his actions it’s why his elbow came backwards and upwards in to the defenders face.
		
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It was the 'deliberate jump' into the player that I have an issue with as he had no chance of winning the ball & could easily have not made that jump......  was his choice & should have been punished for it IMO.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2021)

2blue said:



			It was the 'deliberate jump' into the player that I have an issue with as he had no chance of winning the ball & could easily have not made that jump......  was his choice & should have been punished for it IMO.
		
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He had a defender coming towards him, he realised he wasn’t going to win the ball and instead of being flattened, he turned his back (no different to pulling out of a tackle) to protect himself and his elbow went backwards and upwards in to the defenders face.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

West Ham are a very solid unit with a great outlet in Antonio - exactly how Moyes used to set up his Everton team.  Going to be tough for any team to get anything from them


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

2blue said:



			So player '*deliberately jumped up and turned his back'* causing injury to the player & that's considered, 'just bad luck'!!!!  *Best you stick to hockey, me thinks.*

Click to expand...

How droll 

Amazingly you have said nothing about the Cresswell challenge 🙄


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## rudebhoy (Nov 7, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Where have you seen/heard that?
		
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Google “Brendan Rodgers” it’s all over the place. Doesn’t mean it’s right of course

https://www.si.com/soccer/liverpool...erbally-agreed-to-take-over-manchester-united


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457383148501745673
https://www.football365.com/news/ma...mier-league-boss-replace-ole-gunnar-solskjaer

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...ted-news-Brendan-Rodgers-Ole-Gunnar-Solskjaer


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 7, 2021)

Dodgy keeper.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Dodgy keeper.
		
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Best keeper in the world....


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

It’s what West Ham deserve been the far better side since the equaliser - poor performance today. Very flat


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

Liverpool should sub their goalie and put another outfield player on. He isn't much use, so might as well get another body up front


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## BrianM (Nov 7, 2021)

I bet Man Utd fans wished they still had Moyes in charge, what a job he’s done at West Ham 😀


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

BrianM said:



			I bet Man Utd fans wished they still had Moyes in charge, what a job he’s done at West Ham 😀
		
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They have been superb in this game and certainly going to be challenging for the CL spots this season


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 7, 2021)

Blimey it sounds like Alisson’s not having the best of afternoons 😬😂😂😂

Don’t you just love to see it ☺️
KARMA 😉


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## 2blue (Nov 7, 2021)

2blue said:
So player '*deliberately jumped up and turned his back'* causing injury to the player & that's considered, 'just bad luck'!!!! *Best you stick to hockey, me thinks.*



Liverpoolphil said:



			How *true*

Amazingly you have said nothing about the Cresswell challenge 🙄
		
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Hahaha...  sorted that for you.
I haven't mentioned Cresswell 'cos he wasn't involved in the incident in question.  but true enough both sides could have been down to 10 men.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

What a chance 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂

That was the moment to sneak a point but West Ham getting the win they deserve


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## DanFST (Nov 7, 2021)

Huge win, we could of scored loads. VVD is an absolute monster.


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## Junior (Nov 7, 2021)

Come back Moyes.  All is forgiven.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

Impressive performance from Rice , he seemed to be everywhere doing all the ugly dirty work , breaking up the play, spoiling and then a quick ball to release the forwards.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2021)

What a game. Didn't expect that 

Great goals from Liverpool but just wasn't enough


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 7, 2021)

Don’t understand why Allison didn’t get one of the CBS to get on Antonio he was causing the keeper problems so get someone in to sort it out.
WH tactics were very good but Mane missed two golden chances ,thought a draw would be a fair result.
But WH took their chances we didn’t so well done to them.


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## Foxholer (Nov 7, 2021)

Whee!
1*Chelsea*
2*Man City*
3*West Ham*
4*Liverpool
5Arsenal* 
6*Man Utd*


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## Fade and Die (Nov 7, 2021)

Just got in and It's days like this why we go............................... 🤩
	
	
		
		
	


	





Great performance great result against a very underrated Liverpool side.😆


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## Slime (Nov 7, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Danny Murphy, like or loathe him (I like him), hit the nail on the head. If United want to compete with the likes of City, Chelsea and Liverpool “they need to change the manager.”

I sincerely hope the club use the international break wisely.
		
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Who would you choose?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Who would you choose?
		
Click to expand...

That question is why they should have acted sooner to get Conte in 

Maybe Valverde or Favre of the managers without a job

Or spend a lot of money trying to get someone Like Mancini etc


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## Billysboots (Nov 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Who would you choose?
		
Click to expand...

The rumour doing the rounds currently is that Brendan Rodgers is the man. I wouldn’t be unduly disappointed if United went for him.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2021)

Just 17 points to go until safety


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## Stuart_C (Nov 7, 2021)

Disappointing 2nd half, 2 weeks on the bounce now with Alehouse defending,it needs sorting. 

Alisson throws in a Karius like performance, and we gift West ham 3 goals. Not good enough.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That question is why they should have acted sooner to get Conte in

Maybe Valverde or Favre of the managers without a job

Or spend a lot of money trying to get someone Like Mancini etc
		
Click to expand...

Only if they wanted Conte as a long term replacement. Not exactly a guy to bring in as a caretaker. If they don't fancy him long term, then they may look to plan for a change in summer. Perhaps a caretaker comes in at some point before then


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## BiMGuy (Nov 7, 2021)

Liverpool and ManU losing, Villa falling apart and sacking Smith. Leeds finally putting in a decent performance and my U12s winning in fantastic style against a team who tried to kick and bully them.

Great weekend of football 😁


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Only if they wanted Conte as a long term replacement. Not exactly a guy to bring in as a caretaker. If they don't fancy him long term, then they may look to plan for a change in summer. Perhaps a caretaker comes in at some point before then
		
Click to expand...

Conte only stays 2 years. So would have been perfect to rebuild the club 

Now he gets to try with the spuds


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Conte only stays 2 years. So would have been perfect to rebuild the club

Now he gets to try with the spuds
		
Click to expand...

That logic didn't work with Mourinho. Would the club take the risk to potentially make that mistake again? 

Plus, why get a guy to rebuild the club (presumably towards success) and then have him leave, for someone else to.hopefully work with Conte's team? 

Maybe other fans would think differently, but I'd prefer them to bring someone in who they feel is long term. Someone with a good CV (obviously),  a calm head but a respected and charismatic figurehead for the players to look up to and trust. 

Although I'd have loved to see Conte thrown into this Utd side just to see what difference he could make, ultimately he wouldn't be my choice.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			That logic didn't work with Mourinho. Would the club take the risk to potentially make that mistake again?

Plus, why get a guy to rebuild the club (presumably towards success) and then have him leave, for someone else to.hopefully work with Conte's team?

Maybe other fans would think differently, but I'd prefer them to bring someone in who they feel is long term. Someone with a good CV (obviously),  a calm head but a respected and charismatic figurehead for the players to look up to and trust.

Although I'd have loved to see Conte thrown into this Utd side just to see what difference he could make, ultimately he wouldn't be my choice.
		
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You basically had all that with Moyes.. very well respected in the league at the time, players could look up to him as he was a respectable guy .. would be long term build 

But the fans just couldn't accept it wasn't fergie


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## chrisd (Nov 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Liverpool and ManU losing, Villa falling apart and sacking Smith. Leeds finally putting in a decent performance and my U12s winning in fantastic style against a team who tried to kick and bully them.

Great weekend of football 😁
		
Click to expand...

You seem to have overlooked the Mighty  Eagles beating Wolves 🤔🤔


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## Slime (Nov 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			You basically had all that with *Moyes.. very well respected in the league at the time, players could look up to him as he was a respectable guy* .. would be long term build

But the fans just couldn't accept it wasn't fergie
		
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Right man ............................... wrong time.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Right man ............................... wrong time.
		
Click to expand...

Nobody was ever going to have a job following fergie 

Should have just got a fall guy like Bruce in to sack after a year and then go for Moyes


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2021)

The new Wenger 

Really doesn't take defeat well


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## davemc1 (Nov 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 39397


The new Wenger 

Really doesn't take defeat well
		
Click to expand...

Be better than that 👍🏻


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 7, 2021)

Wh


pauljames87 said:



View attachment 39397


The new Wenger

Really doesn't take defeat well
		
Click to expand...

What a surprise 🙄🤥


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wh

What a surprise 🙄🤥
		
Click to expand...





I mean talk about trying to be back hand just because the midfield was so weak we kept breaking through 

Dunno what he's on about west ham of old would have lost 4-1


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			You basically had all that with Moyes.. very well respected in the league at the time, players could look up to him as he was a respectable guy .. would be long term build

But the fans just couldn't accept it wasn't fergie
		
Click to expand...

Your last sentence is extremely relevant though. Pretty much any manager was going to struggle after Fergie. Not just with fans, but with players to. Especially if they didn't have success. I know Rio Ferdinand didn't like him, but there will always be doubt and comparisons between Fergie and what a new manager does. 

Moyes ran a stable club in Everton. But, he wasnt exactly known as playing good attractive football. He also hadn't won much as manager, just the second division with Preston. 

And, realistically, if Klopp left Liverpool or Pep left City, would their fans get excited about Moyes replacing them? Doubt it.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 8, 2021)

Watched MOTD last night and it was the first time I saw the “talking points”. For me the 1st goal was good. Not West Ham’s fault Alison was doing the Hand Jive when he should have been at work!
The Creswell challenge, his foot bounced off the ball up to Henderson’s knee, looked bad when they froze it but he wasn’t in control and if it had been a red I couldn’t complain.

As for the Salah “foul”….. I could tell he was up to his tricks as soon as it happened - even before the replay confirmed it - when he simulates, he does a little signature jump in the air and then rolls on his side. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457398696207785988


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## Junior (Nov 8, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The rumour doing the rounds currently is that Brendan Rodgers is the man. I wouldn’t be unduly disappointed if United went for him.
		
Click to expand...

Erik Ten Hag ?


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## pauljames87 (Nov 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Watched MOTD last night and it was the first time I saw the “talking points”. For me the 1st goal was good. Not West Ham’s fault Alison was doing the Hand Jive when he should have been at work!
The Creswell challenge, his foot bounced off the ball up to Henderson’s knee, looked bad when they froze it but he wasn’t in control and if it had been a red I couldn’t complain.

As for the Salah “foul”….. I could tell he was up to his tricks as soon as it happened - even before the replay confirmed it - when he simulates, he does a little signature jump in the air and then rolls on his side.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457398696207785988

Click to expand...

Really hate it when players with that much talent have to reduce themselves to diving

Cresswell I thought they would give red .. but the foot bounce must have come into it

Jamie redknapp hit nail on head.. Allison needs to focus on doing his job he was too interested in pushing Antonio

Love that Nolan is keeping his legacy going lol


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## Captainron (Nov 8, 2021)

Marcelo Bielsa?


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## Slime (Nov 8, 2021)

Junior said:



			Erik Ten Hag ?
		
Click to expand...

Yes please.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Marcelo Bielsa?
		
Click to expand...

So, Utd who barely break sweat get in a manager who gets his players running more than any other team . Make it happen, please. I want to see how Pogba deals with that


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## Piece (Nov 8, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Poor defending by Watford but definitely a controversial goal. Watford put the ball out as one of their players was down. Arsenal then didn't give it back from the throw in. And a probable foul on Sarr as Watford tried to clear before Arsenal won the ball and scored.
		
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Frankly, that was crap from the ref and crap from Arsenal. I was at the game and was very unhappy. Watching the highlights, even more so.

Arsenal were the better side, so no complaints, but let's have it fair and sporting please.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2021)

I think we have a Villa fan, maybe more than one, on here. What is the thinking regarding Smith? I know the season has not started well and you are 5 on the bounce but did he deserve the chance to put it right? I can't work out if the board have been effectively ruthless, giving lots of time for the new manager to turn things around, or if they have been knee jerk on this. I'm interested to hear a fans persepctive.


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## Orikoru (Nov 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 39398


I mean talk about trying to be back hand just because the midfield was so weak we kept breaking through

Dunno what he's on about west ham of old would have lost 4-1
		
Click to expand...

Honestly, Klopp has tried to create this happy-go-lucky laid back persona and the media lapped it up, but he's actually as petulant as they come. Remember when he berated a BT Sport interviewer for his fixture pile-up like it was his fault? Ridiculous bloke.


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## Orikoru (Nov 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Watched MOTD last night and it was the first time I saw the “talking points”. For me the 1st goal was good. Not West Ham’s fault Alison was doing the Hand Jive when he should have been at work!
The Creswell challenge, his foot bounced off the ball up to Henderson’s knee, looked bad when they froze it but he wasn’t in control and if it had been a red I couldn’t complain.

As for the Salah “foul”….. I could tell he was up to his tricks as soon as it happened - even before the replay confirmed it - when he simulates, he does a little signature jump in the air and then rolls on his side.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457398696207785988

Click to expand...

There's not much in it, but Rice steps right across him, impeding his progress and doesn't get the ball. Like it or not, that's a foul by modern standards.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Honestly, Klopp has tried to create this happy-go-lucky laid back persona and the media lapped it up, but he's actually as petulant as they come. Remember when he berated a BT Sport interviewer for his fixture pile-up like it was his fault? Ridiculous bloke.
		
Click to expand...

Or he is just like every single other top class manager and they use many methods in the media to deflect - been going on for decades - all the way back to the 70’S with Shanks , Clough , Ferguson , Wenger Mourinho etc etc 

They all have the same mentality - what do you expect them to say 🤷‍♂️


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## Orikoru (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or he is just like every single other top class manager and they use many methods in the media to deflect - been going on for decades - all the way back to the 70’S with Shanks , Clough , Ferguson , Wenger Mourinho etc etc

They all have the same mentality - what do you expect them to say 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

I think slating the team that's just beaten you is a bit much to be honest. Saying they were like the 'old West Ham' is a bafflingly stupid comment. He's an intelligent guy, I'm sure he must realise that teams will play more pragmatically against a top side. Just makes him look stroppy and a sore loser. Don't mind him giving reasons for a defeat if there's actually any validity in the comment.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or he is just like every single other top class manager and they use many methods in the media to deflect - been going on for decades - all the way back to the 70’S with Shanks , Clough , Ferguson , Wenger Mourinho etc etc

They all have the same mentality - what do you expect them to say 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

He wants him like OGS...” well they tried their best, what can I say and do”


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems it’s true - they win and then sack him 🤷‍♂️ Maybe trying to get Bruce or Warnock before Man Utd get in there first
		
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Bruce or Warnock?? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Honestly, Klopp has tried to create this happy-go-lucky laid back persona and the media lapped it up, but he's actually as petulant as they come. Remember when he berated a BT Sport interviewer for his fixture pile-up like it was his fault? Ridiculous bloke.
		
Click to expand...

All he wants is for people to give Alisson a fee catch from set pieces,surely that’s not too much to ask 🤷‍♂️😂


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## DanFST (Nov 8, 2021)

Calmed down a bit now from the win.

- 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457640180391813121
I didn't think at the time, but on that replay it's a red. Jota also got Soucek a yellow Before half time with a blatent dive with 0 contact. 

- Cresswell could have been off, his foot bounces off the ball weirdly so it looks way worse, and I don't like them called, but could see him getting a red. Credit to Henderson not rolling around like a toddler, that may have saved the red. 

- If Lpool fans were certain the atheltico breaking up of play was a red, they should of had a few for breaking up our counter attacks. 

- I'm concerned about the decisions going against us, we arent a team that follow and shout at officials, we don't dive and roll around (apart from Fornals, and he gets abuse for it from the home crowd) 

- Matic kneeing Coufal, (resulted in groin injury).
- Rondon Stamping on Soucek ( Stitches and platic surgery).
- Hause destroying fornals with an elbow.
- Jota above. 

All have caused injury, and affected that game and subsequent ones, no VAR, no retrospective action. 

- Virgil Van Dyke is an absolutely incredible player.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Calmed down a bit now from the win.

- 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457640180391813121
I didn't think at the time, but on that replay it's a red. Jota also got Soucek a yellow Before half time with a blatent dive with 0 contact.

- Cresswell could have been off, his foot bounces off the ball weirdly so it looks way worse, and I don't like them called, but could see him getting a red. Credit to Henderson not rolling around like a toddler, that may have saved the red.

- If Lpool fans were certain the atheltico breaking up of play was a red, they should of had a few for breaking up our counter attacks.

- I'm concerned about the decisions going against us, we arent a team that follow and shout at officials, we don't dive and roll around (apart from Fornals, and he gets abuse for it from the home crowd)

- Matic kneeing Coufal, (resulted in groin injury).
- Rondon Stamping on Soucek ( Stitches and platic surgery).
- Hause destroying fornals with an elbow.
- Jota above.

All have caused injury, and affected that game and subsequent ones, no VAR, no retrospective action.

- Virgil Van Dyke is an absolutely incredible player.
		
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Spot on, see post #17786, that elbow has not moved in a natural direction.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 8, 2021)

Klopp is a very good manager,but for the life of me I can’t believe he didn’t play Salah
Why would you not play the best player in the world,lmao.
Agree VD just a Rolls Royce of a defender.
Really really liking Rice .


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## Billysboots (Nov 8, 2021)

Junior said:



			Erik Ten Hag ?
		
Click to expand...

Certainly wouldn’t say no.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Spot on, see post #17786, that elbow has not moved in a natural direction.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree Jota was very lucky to get away with that.
But having said that Ogbonna had his arm above his head which blocked Alissons punch ,and although he didn’t touch the ball his arm is not in a natural position. 
Cresswell was a stonewall red for me shocking tackle.
Holgates for Everton was similar but more forceful but he clearly got the ball and followed through.
This just highlighted how inconsistent refs and VAR can be


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Calmed down a bit now from the win.

- 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457640180391813121
I didn't think at the time, but on that replay it's a red. Jota also got Soucek a yellow Before half time with a blatent dive with 0 contact.

- Cresswell could have been off, his foot bounces off the ball weirdly so it looks way worse, and I don't like them called, but could see him getting a red. Credit to Henderson not rolling around like a toddler, that may have saved the red.

- If Lpool fans were certain the atheltico breaking up of play was a red, they should of had a few for breaking up our counter attacks.

- I'm concerned about the decisions going against us, we arent a team that follow and shout at officials, we don't dive and roll around (apart from Fornals, and he gets abuse for it from the home crowd)

- Matic kneeing Coufal, (resulted in groin injury).
- Rondon Stamping on Soucek ( Stitches and platic surgery).
- Hause destroying fornals with an elbow.
- Jota above.

All have caused injury, and affected that game and subsequent ones, no VAR, no retrospective action.

- Virgil Van Dyke is an absolutely incredible player.
		
Click to expand...

The Ref was shocking - but it’s Pawson and Atwell so I’m not surprised

1. goal - there plenty of pictures that show the defenders arm impending the GK

2. Henderson - tackle was a clear red 

3. Jota - if VAR look closely and he is sent off then it wouldn’t be overturned 

4. Salah - he doesn’t need to go down as the contact would have happened with Rice 


if they need an example of how not to ref a game they can use that game

West Ham deserved to win the game but could have been different with decisions from the ref


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree Jota was very lucky to get away with that.
But having said that Ogbonna had his arm above his head which blocked Alissons punch ,and although he didn’t touch the ball his arm is not in a natural position.
Cresswell was a stonewall red for me shocking tackle.
Holgates for Everton was similar but more forceful but he clearly got the ball and followed through.
This just highlighted how inconsistent refs and VAR can be
		
Click to expand...

You are allowed to challenge at a corner, Ogbonna was in a natural position going for the ball, Alisson was more worried about being impeded by Antonio and, imo, wasn’t concentrating on getting the ball. 
Goalkeepers get far too much protection imo.

Both Cresswell and Holgate deserved Red, unfortunately only 1 official called it correctly.

We’ll always have inconsistencies, it’s part of the game and we really only get upset when it affects our own team.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

Eddie Howe confirmed as The Mags new Head Coach on a 3yr contract.

Good luck to him.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Ref was shocking - but it’s Pawson and Atwell so I’m not surprised

1. goal - there plenty of pictures that show the defenders arm impending the GK

2. Henderson - tackle was a clear red

3. Jota - if VAR look closely and he is sent off then it wouldn’t be overturned

4. Salah - he doesn’t need to go down as the contact would have happened with Rice


if they need an example of how not to ref a game they can use that game

West Ham deserved to win the game but could have been different with decisions from the ref
		
Click to expand...


Top work Phil, wrong on every single point!


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You are allowed to challenge at a corner, Ogbonna was in a natural position going for the ball, Alisson was more worried about being impeded by Antonio and, imo, wasn’t concentrating on getting the ball.
Goalkeepers get far too much protection imo.

Both Cresswell and Holgate deserved Red, unfortunately only 1 official called it correctly.

We’ll always have inconsistencies, it’s part of the game and we really only get upset when it affects our own team.
		
Click to expand...

No he wasn’t if you have got your arm above your head (in football any way )it’s not a natural position.
Although what’s a natural position.

Agree about the keeper he should have got a defender in between them.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Eddie Howe confirmed as The Mags new Head Coach on a 3yr contract.

Good luck to him.

Click to expand...

He's going to need it


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## pauljames87 (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			No he wasn’t if you have got your arm above your head (in football any way )it’s not a natural position.
Although what’s a natural position.

Agree about the keeper he should have got a defender in between them.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but no. Can we stop this natural position rubbish as that only counts for hand ball

Ball didn't touch ogbonna hand there for it makes zero odds 

Allison did poor end of story


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			No he wasn’t if you have got your arm above your head (in football any way )it’s not a natural position.
Although what’s a natural position.

Agree about the keeper he should have got a defender in between them.
		
Click to expand...

But Alisson jumped into the back of Agbonna, Agbonna didn’t raise his arms to obstruct anyone it was a natural leap to head the ball, surely you understand using your arms as leverage to jump up?


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			But Alisson jumped into the back of Agbonna, Agbonna didn’t raise his arms to obstruct anyone it was a natural leap to head the ball, surely you understand using your arms as leverage to jump up?
		
Click to expand...

Too often see them given though. Attacker jumps vertically to try to head the ball, the keeper comes flying out and jumps into the attacker and gets given the free kick. They seem to be letting more minor contact go on outfield players, let's hope they do the same for keepers as well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Too often see them given though. Attacker jumps vertically to try to head the ball, the keeper comes flying out and jumps into the attacker and gets given the free kick. They seem to be letting more minor contact go on outfield players, let's hope they do the same for keepers as well.
		
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Totally agree. Keepers get the benefit most of the time.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Ref was shocking - but it’s Pawson and Atwell so I’m not surprised

1. goal - there plenty of pictures that show the defenders arm impending the GK

2. Henderson - tackle was a clear red

3. Jota - if VAR look closely and he is sent off then it wouldn’t be overturned

4. Salah - he doesn’t need to go down as the contact would have happened with Rice


if they need an example of how not to ref a game they can use that game

West Ham deserved to win the game but could have been different with decisions from the ref
		
Click to expand...

1. It was not a foul on the keeper. Even Jamie Carragher didn't think so, nor any of the other pundits I heard. Normally if it was dubious, or a blatant miss by ref, it would generate lots of debate. I've only heard Klopp and a handful of Liverpool fans say it was a foul, so can read nothing into that. I remember Calvert Lewin smashed DeGea with his arm (think is was around Dec 2019) and the ball went in, goal was given. 

2. Wasn't a clear red, as VAR would have given it. There must have been some doubt there. Although his foot bounced up high, it appeared to be only a glancing blow on Henderson. Certainly didn't seem to cause Henderson too much pain. Yes, it looked dodgy when seeing the still and where his foot was, but I think red would have been harsh (but could see it either way based on how refs act)

3. Looked a bit sneaky. It is difficult to know how a player would ever get sent off for an elbow these days though (unless a second yellow for a tall striker), unless it is an obvious one like Leonardo when he played at Milan. 

4. I didn't really notice the Salah incident at the time, I wasn't watching the TV. When I saw it briefly later, it looked a dive


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Honestly, Klopp has tried to create this happy-go-lucky laid back persona and the media lapped it up, but he's actually as petulant as they come. Remember when he berated a BT Sport interviewer for his fixture pile-up like it was his fault? Ridiculous bloke.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/59199175


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			1. It was not a foul on the keeper. Even Jamie Carragher didn't think so, nor any of the other pundits I heard. Normally if it was dubious, or a blatant miss by ref, it would generate lots of debate. I've only heard Klopp and a handful of Liverpool fans say it was a foul, so can read nothing into that. I remember Calvert Lewin smashed DeGea with his arm (think is was around Dec 2019) and the ball went in, goal was given.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure what the Carragher reference is about - as I said there are plenty of pics around showing the contact and it’s one you have seen given before plenty of times. If it’s not deemed a foul then I hope it’s consistent now 




			2. Wasn't a clear red, as VAR would have given it. There must have been some doubt there. Although his foot bounced up high, it appeared to be only a glancing blow on Henderson. Certainly didn't seem to cause Henderson too much pain. Yes, it looked dodgy when seeing the still and where his foot was, but I think red would have been harsh (but could see it either way based on how refs act)
		
Click to expand...

VAR not giving doesn’t mean it still wasn’t a red card - Cresswell went in strong went over the ball and straight onto Henderson knee - thankfully the standing leg wasn’t set or it could have been a serious injury - if it’s Henderson on Cresswell and a red is given there would have been no complaints at all 




			3. Looked a bit sneaky. It is difficult to know how a player would ever get sent off for an elbow these days though (unless a second yellow for a tall striker), unless it is an obvious one like Leonardo when he played at Milan.
		
Click to expand...

It is very sneaky - the only thing that’s impossible to judge is intent - if they give that as a red then it wouldn’t be overturned 

I’m amazed that the referee wasn’t asked to go to the monitor both times to check 




			4. I didn't really notice the Salah incident at the time, I wasn't watching the TV. When I saw it briefly later, it looked a dive
		
Click to expand...

When it happened it looked like Rice had come across him and caught Salah - on the replay Salah has clearly gone down expecting the touch - it’s poor 


The referee was shocking , Atwell was as well - but on balance of play the result was right


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When it happened it looked like Rice had come across him and caught Salah - on the replay *Salah has clearly gone down expecting the touch - it’s poor*

Click to expand...

He dived LP. It's not poor, it's cheating. He dived and he cheated. Can you really not bring yourself to admit that one of your players dived? That's four or five posts since it happened where you've used mealy mouthed words to avoid using the word dive or cheat.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			But Alisson jumped into the back of Agbonna, Agbonna didn’t raise his arms to obstruct anyone it was a natural leap to head the ball, surely you understand using your arms as leverage to jump up?
		
Click to expand...

Really you raise your arms for leverage once your in the air your arms come down that’s where the elbow fouls are most common.
I have never seen anyone jump with their arm up like the Statue of Liberty you don’t get any leverage from that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Really you raise your arms for leverage once your in the air your arms come down that’s where the elbow fouls are most common.
I have never seen anyone jump with their arm up like the Statue of Liberty you don’t get any leverage from that.
		
Click to expand...

Here’s a link with the goal and VAR, as you will see Agbonna was on his way up when Alisson tried to get through.

The West Ham tactic was to have Antonio district the keeper to give Agbonna a free jump, it worked, Alisson jumped into his back.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457750235380334595


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			He dived LP. It's not poor, it's cheating. He dived and he cheated. Can you really not bring yourself to admit that one of your players dived? That's four or five posts since it happened where you've used mealy mouthed words to avoid using the word dive or cheat.
		
Click to expand...

Yes it’s a dive.
Can’t see why anyone is suprized he does have a reputation but he’s not alone.
Maybe VAR needs to make itself useful and tell the ref he has made a clear and obvious error.
Then book them.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure what the Carragher reference is about - as I said there are plenty of pics around showing the contact and it’s one you have seen given before plenty of times. If it’s not deemed a foul then I hope it’s consistent now



VAR not giving doesn’t mean it still wasn’t a red card - *Cresswell went in strong went over the ball and straight onto Henderson knee *- thankfully the standing leg wasn’t set or it could have been a serious injury - if it’s Henderson on Cresswell and a red is given there would have been no complaints at all



It is very sneaky - the only thing that’s impossible to judge is intent - if they give that as a red then it wouldn’t be overturned

I’m amazed that the referee wasn’t asked to go to the monitor both times to check



When it happened it looked like Rice had come across him and caught Salah - on the replay Salah has clearly gone down expecting the touch - it’s poor


The referee was shocking , Atwell was as well - but on balance of play the result was right
		
Click to expand...

Must be something wrong with your telly, Creswell clearly didn’t go over the ball straight into Henderson’s knee otherwise he would have been seriously hurt…..it was a glancing blow via the ball. That’s why it was not given a red, ref thought so and VAR confirmed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Must be something wrong with your telly, Creswell clearly didn’t go over the ball straight into Henderson’s knee otherwise he would have been seriously hurt…..it was a glancing blow via the ball. That’s why it was not given a red, ref thought so and VAR confirmed.
		
Click to expand...

He did go over the ball and his studs ended up on Henderson’s knee. 

The day the ref gets every decision right is the day the “ref didn’t give it” can be used as a defence.

If that tackle happened on a West Ham player I very much doubt you wouldn’t be asking for a red card.


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## 2blue (Nov 8, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Calmed down a bit now from the win.

- 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457640180391813121
- Jota above.
		
Click to expand...

At the time I think there was only me & Paul who saw the malice in his deliberate jump into Ogboona....  the guy needed stitches & was off. I was amazed it was just brushed off as a coming together.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He did go over the ball and his studs ended up on Henderson’s knee.

The day the ref gets every decision right is the day the “ref didn’t give it” can be used as a defence.

If that tackle happened on a West Ham player I very much doubt you wouldn’t be asking for a red card.
		
Click to expand...

I posted this morning after I had seen MOTD that if he had been given a red I would have not complained. It’s one of them ones where I can see it from both sides. Something you obviously can’t.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Here’s a link with the goal and VAR, as you will see Agbonna was on his way up when Alisson tried to get through.

The West Ham tactic was to have Antonio district the keeper to give Agbonna a free jump, it worked, Alisson jumped into his back.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457750235380334595

Click to expand...

Ogbonna takes two steps forward then one back as he jumps ,with his arm up in the air he’s pulling his elbow down .
If that’s a defender and not the keeper he elbows him in the face.
So I still think it’s a foul as he’s elbowed the keepers arm.
We will just have to disagree .
Alisson is late getting there because of Antonio that was a mistake not getting a defender to help him.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Must be something wrong with your telly, Creswell clearly didn’t go over the ball straight into Henderson’s knee otherwise he would have been seriously hurt…..it was a glancing blow via the ball. That’s why it was not given a red, ref thought so and VAR confirmed.
		
Click to expand...

That’s a shocking tackle no other words for it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2021)

2blue said:



			At the time I think there was only me & Paul who saw the malice in his deliberate jump into Ogboona....  the guy needed stitches & was off. I was amazed it was just brushed off as a coming together.
		
Click to expand...

actually Paul was talking about the elbow being the issue - you were just dribbling on about the jumping up and turning his back which there is no issue at all. The injury was caused by the elbow not the jump


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## Fade and Die (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a shocking tackle no other words for it.
		
Click to expand...

There are a few other words for it actually. Accidental, over-hyped and borderline are a few that others are using.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 8, 2021)

In a statement released to Sky Sports after the game, Attwell’s reasoning for not punishing Cresswell for his challenge was because it ‘didn’t have the required force or intensity or clear contact’.

And there we have it. Reason why real time is import part of the process .. slowing down makes things look worse

Lucky it didn't stop Henderson running up to the refs face moaning the rest of the game


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## Swango1980 (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Really you raise your arms for leverage once your in the air your arms come down that’s where the elbow fouls are most common.
I have never seen anyone jump with their arm up like the Statue of Liberty you don’t get any leverage from that.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe I am confusing what you are saying, but that last sentence seems odd.

Have you ever watched the High Jump event at the Olympics?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			There are a few other words for it actually. Accidental, over-hyped and borderline are a few that others are using.
		
Click to expand...

No it was a shocker that is rightly banned from the game now.
He was just lucky he didn’t hurt Henderson.
He’s off the ground and out of control.
Nearly all of them have been red this season the ref bottled it.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 8, 2021)

How bi-polar is Klopp? Before the game he gave this really good interview where he says some great stuff about West Ham and Moyes…….

https://www.hammers.news/news/jurge...tribute-to-west-ham-ahead-of-liverpool-clash/

Gets beat and it’s all snidey comments and stupid answers in interviews! 

What a “Character”🤪🤪😂


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## Fade and Die (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			No it was a shocker that is rightly banned from the game now.
He was just lucky he didn’t hurt Henderson.
He’s off the ground and out of control.
Nearly all of them have been red this season the ref bottled it.
		
Click to expand...

Did you see his boot cannon off the ball onto hendos knee? (Proving he actually went for the ball) No? Well VAR did.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe I am confusing what you are saying, but that last sentence seems odd.

Have you ever watched the High Jump event at the Olympics?
		
Click to expand...

Yes I have .
The leverage comes from pulling your arms down, that’s why it’s dangerous 
However Og is not trying to jump over the keeper


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## 2blue (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			actually Paul was talking about the elbow being the issue - you were just dribbling on about the jumping up and turning his back which there is no issue at all. The injury was caused by the elbow not the jump
		
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't realized that without the jump then there could have been no elbow.....  I guess you don't get that jumping into people in hockey.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 8, 2021)

Wonder if Liverpool will ever lose a game & not have all this drama afterwards 🤦‍♂️

•Keeper had a nightmare
•midfield was weak & over run
•opposition manager did a job on you
•ref didn’t favour you like previous games

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Did you see his boot cannon off the ball onto hendos knee? (Proving he actually went for the ball) No? Well VAR did.
		
Click to expand...

Getting the ball dosnt count now.
Watch the Holgate one for Everton ,he cleared the ball 60 yds but got a red for the follow through


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## Swango1980 (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			No it was a shocker that is rightly banned from the game now.
He was just lucky he didn’t hurt Henderson.
He’s off the ground and out of control.
Nearly all of them have been red this season the ref bottled it
		
Click to expand...

The ref didn't give it, nor VAR. Furthermore, commentators, pundits on Sky and Match of the Day were not convinced it was a red. Some think it could have been, others probably think it was just about OK. 

If the general consensus from nearly everyone was that it was a red, you can probably make the assessment the ref bottled it or didn't see it, and VAR bottled it or were mistaken.

However, there is clearly that much doubt on it, as we can see based on discussion on this thread, that it is difficult to argue it is a stonewall red. At best, you can argue it could go one way or the other and is a subjective call.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

2blue said:



			You obviously haven't realized that without the jump then there could have been no elbow.....  I guess you don't get that jumping into people in hockey. 

Click to expand...

Yes I know what you mean.
But refs have been letting that sort of challenge go all season Kane is a master of it.
It’s dangerous and not even going for the ball.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The ref didn't give it, nor VAR. Furthermore, commentators, pundits on Sky and Match of the Day were not convinced it was a red. Some think it could have been, others probably think it was just about OK.

If the general consensus from nearly everyone was that it was a red, you can probably make the assessment the ref bottled it or didn't see it, and VAR bottled it or were mistaken.

However, there is clearly that much doubt on it, as we can see based on discussion on this thread, that it is difficult to argue it is a stonewall red. At best, you can argue it could go one way or the other and is a subjective call.
		
Click to expand...

It’s my opinion ,I am entitled to that.
It’s both feet off the ground , glances the ball and follows through on op knee high.?.?
For me it was a red, you don’t think so that’s fine your entitled to your opinion.
The ref and VAR are not always right or Jota would have joined him but they got that wrong as well.


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## 2blue (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I know what you mean.
But refs have been letting that sort of challenge go all season Kane is a master of it.
It’s dangerous and not even going for the ball.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, in fact, Kane often gets the foul... ridiculous, though Kane rarely causes injury.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s my opinion ,I am entitled to that.
It’s both feet off the ground , glances the ball and follows through on op knee high.?.?
For me it was a red, you don’t think so that’s fine your entitled to your opinion.
The ref and VAR are not always right or Jota would have joined him but they got that wrong as well.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I was responding to your comment the ref bottled it. I was pointing out that this statement is simply not correct, as the ref may have seen it differently to you. And, I assume he is also entitled to his opinion?

If the ref did not see it as a red card, he hadn't bottled anything.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

2blue said:



			Yes, in fact, Kane often gets the foul... ridiculous, though Kane rarely causes injury.
		
Click to expand...

Fortunately.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2021)

2blue said:



			At the time I think there was only me & Paul who saw the malice in his deliberate jump into Ogboona....  the guy needed stitches & was off. I was amazed it was just brushed off as a coming together.
		
Click to expand...

He deliberately jumped to block the ball.

He's more than entitled to do so, there was no malicious intent to hurt the player at all. It was unlucky, just like the Harvey elliot tackle at Elland Road.  It's impossible to jump and turn with your arms tucked into your sides.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Absolutely, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I was responding to your comment the ref bottled it. I was pointing out that this statement is simply not correct, as the ref may have seen it differently to you. And, I assume he is also entitled to his opinion?

If the ref did not see it as a red card, he hadn't bottled anything.
		
Click to expand...

At the end of the day it’s only the refs opinion that counts.
But he didn’t even give a foul at the time so what was he watching.?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			At the end of the day it’s only the refs opinion that counts.
But he didn’t even give a foul at the time so what was he watching.?
		
Click to expand...

He possibly saw Cresswell won the ball fairly?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			He possibly saw Cresswell won the ball fairly?
		
Click to expand...

Just like the Holgate one for Everton he cleared the ball 60yds but followed through and got red.
So getting the ball means nothing now if your out of control off the floor.
You can’t claim you won the ball fairly if you follow through into the op player.
There have been lots of these that ended in red.
That’s the problem inconsistent decisions.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He deliberately jumped to block the ball.

He's more than entitled to do so, there was no malicious intent to hurt the player at all. It was unlucky, just like the Harvey elliot tackle at Elland Road.  It's impossible to jump and turn with your arms tucked into your sides.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂 He jumped to protect himself! Agbonna was clearing the ball and Jota turned his back, he bottled it as he knew Agbonna was getting there first and would of took him out, as he turned his back his elbow went backwards and upwards.

Did he intentionally mean to hurt him? None of us know, but I genuinely believe if VAR had seen it he’d of walked.

Intent or not it was serious foul play and why does only one elbow go back?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457640811366010885


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			😂😂 He jumped to protect himself! Agbonna was clearing the ball and Jota turned his back, he bottled it as he knew Agbonna was getting there first and would of took him out, as he turned his back his elbow went backwards and upwards.

Did he intentionally mean to hurt him? None of us know, but I genuinely believe if VAR had seen it he’d of walked.

Intent or not it was serious foul play and why does only one elbow go back?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457640811366010885

Click to expand...

Simple question,How did that not get a retrospective viewing.


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## pendodave (Nov 8, 2021)

Are we still arguing about this??
Thank the Lord that LFC don't get outplayed every week...


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			😂😂 He jumped to protect himself! Agbonna was clearing the ball and Jota turned his back, he bottled it as he knew Agbonna was getting there first and would of took him out, as he turned his back his elbow went backwards and upwards.

Did he intentionally mean to hurt him? None of us know, but I genuinely believe if VAR had seen it he’d of walked.

Intent or not it was serious foul play and why does only one elbow go back?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457640811366010885

Click to expand...

That’s my real gripe about VAR how did they not see that.
Ogbonna was down for a while they had plenty of time to look at it.
One elbow comes out becau that’s the way he is turning.
It’s natural but very dangerous.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Are we still arguing about this??
Thank the Lord that LFC don't get outplayed every week...
		
Click to expand...

They scored more goals than us but outplayed really.?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s my real gripe about VAR how did they not see that.
Ogbonna was down for a while they had plenty of time to look at it.
One elbow comes out becau that’s the way he is turning.
It’s natural but very dangerous.
		
Click to expand...

What the vid again, the elbow is late imo.

Anyway, that’s when it would of been 10 aside for me. 

Roll on the Internationals this week.


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			One elbow comes out becau that’s the way he is turning.
		
Click to expand...

Not for me, went to hurt the guy imo.
I find it a bit funny, Athletico play dirty and it’s they’re the worst team in the universe, Liverpool players cheat and get dirty, aaargh no it’s just normal 😂


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			😂😂 He jumped to protect himself! Agbonna was clearing the ball and Jota turned his back, he bottled it as he knew Agbonna was getting there first and would of took him out, as he turned his back his elbow went backwards and upwards.

Did he intentionally mean to hurt him? None of us know, but I genuinely believe if VAR had seen it he’d of walked.

Intent or not it was serious foul play and why does only one elbow go back?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457640811366010885

Click to expand...

VAR doesn't miss a thing. Every tackle gets looked at and I'd bet my bottom dollar that was looked at. 

What did you want Jota to do? He was making a genuine attempt to block the ball. 
If Jota knows he's not getting to that ball, what do you expect him to do? Get clattered? The speed he's running at, if he carries on in a straight line he runs into him and more than likely hurts himself. 

I genuinely believe his momentum causes his elbow to swing. It was a coming together and it was unfortunate Ogbonna got injured.

Just like the Creswell challenge, slowing it down to score a point only makes It look worse than it was.

I thought the Crezza's challenge was a free kick and yellow at most. Slow it down or frame it and its a stonewall  red card.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			They scored more goals than us but outplayed really.?
		
Click to expand...

What would you call it then? Stifled your pointless ticky-takka, marauded through the massive holes in your midfield and dominated totally at set pieces. 🤷‍♂️


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			VAR doesn't miss a thing. Every tackle gets looked at and I'd bet my bottom dollar that was looked at.

What did you want Jota to do? He was making a genuine attempt to block the ball.
If Jota knows he's not getting to that ball, what do you expect him to do? Get clattered? The speed he's running at, if he carries on in a straight line he runs into him and more than likely hurts himself.

I genuinely believe his momentum causes his elbow to swing. It was a coming together and it was unfortunate Ogbonna got injured.

Just like the Creswell challenge, slowing it down to score a point only makes It look worse than it was.

I thought the Crezza's challenge was a free kick and yellow at most. Slow it down or frame it and its a stonewall  red card.
		
Click to expand...

A genuine attempt to block the ball is not to bottle it and turn your back, if he can’t see Agbonna then he’s not in control.

The Cresswell challenge I thought was red at the time because he was not in control and we’ve seen red cards given for that. Imo, it was early in the game and he was putting a marker down, I thought VAR helped him stay on by showing his foot bounced off the ball.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A genuine attempt to block the ball is not to bottle it and turn your back, if he can’t see Agbonna then he’s not in control.

The Cresswell challenge I thought was red at the time because he was not in control and we’ve seen red cards given for that. Imo, it was early in the game and he was putting a marker down, I thought VAR helped him stay on by showing his foot bounced off the ball.
		
Click to expand...

I'm guessing as he's running to block the ball he sees Ogbonna is gonna get their 1st and has a a split 2nd to make a decision. A) Carry on running and potentially  hurt himself and Ogbonna or B) Jump and turn his back to protect himself.

At the speed he was going its impossible to stop.

What did you expect him to do? 

Bear in mind the size advantage/difference between Ogbonna and Jota.

If he can't see Ogbonna he shouldn't be on the field and needs an eye test.

To suggest he's bottled it is lame.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 8, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Not for me, went to hurt the guy imo.
I find it a bit funny, Athletico play dirty and it’s they’re the worst team in the universe, Liverpool players cheat and get dirty, aaargh no it’s just normal 😂
		
Click to expand...

Spot on.
“ale house football” I believe it’s called 🤷‍♂️😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm guessing as he's running to block the ball he sees Ogbonna is gonna get their 1st and has a a split 2nd to make a decision. A) Carry on running and potentially  hurt himself and Ogbonna or B) Jump and turn his back to protect himself.

At the speed he was going its impossible to stop.

What did you expect him to do?

*Bear in mind the size advantage/difference between Ogbonna and Jota.*

If he can't see Ogbonna he shouldn't be on the field and needs an eye test.

To suggest he's bottled it is lame.
		
Click to expand...

It’s not lame at all, it’s a fact, the bit in bold is why he turned his back and why I thought the elbow could of been seen as deliberate, it didn’t only come backwards, it went upwards.

As from what I’d expect him to do? Either raise his foot to block the ball or do something that isn’t turning his back as that could of easily seen himself getting seriously injured.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s not lame at all, it’s a fact, the bit in bold is why he turned his back and why I thought the elbow could of been seen as deliberate, it didn’t only come backwards, it went upwards.

As from what I’d expect him to do? Either raise his foot to block the ball or do something that isn’t turning his back as that could of easily seen himself getting seriously injured.
		
Click to expand...

You really want Jota to " raise his foot"?

I'm sure that wouldn't hurt Ogbonna neither.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			You really want Jota to " raise his foot"?

I'm sure that wouldn't hurt Ogbonna neither.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

To block the ball Stu, highlighting part of what I said does you no favours.


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2021)

So glad theyve postponed the premier league for a week so that we can discuss this game for 2 weeks rather than just a few days 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			To block the ball Stu, highlighting part of what I said does you no favours.

Click to expand...

So you want Jota to raise his foot to block a ball that you've already said he wasn't getting to? 

I don't need favours, you're tying yourself in knots very well  here.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2021)

fundy said:



			So glad theyve postponed the premier league for a week so that we can discuss this game for 2 weeks rather than just a few days 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Luckily we've got a home banker straight after the international break😉


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Luckily we've got a home banker straight after the international break😉
		
Click to expand...

As easy as it gets 

ps watch out for the corners and free kicks


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			So you want Jota to raise his foot to block a ball that you've already said he wasn't getting to?

I don't need favours, you're tying yourself in knots very well  here.
		
Click to expand...

Not at all, turning his back was dangerous, as proven, to Agbonna and could of been worse for him.

Jota wasn’t getting to the ball first, he bottled it and turned his back. He could of tried to see were Agbonna was going to clear the ball and tried to raise his foot to block the ball on its path.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just like the Holgate one for Everton he cleared the ball 60yds but followed through and got red.
So getting the ball means nothing now if your out of control off the floor.
You can’t claim you won the ball fairly if you follow through into the op player.
There have been lots of these that ended in red.
That’s the problem inconsistent decisions.
		
Click to expand...

Winning the ball hasn’t been a thing for about 30 years.


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## Orikoru (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			😂😂 He jumped to protect himself! Agbonna was clearing the ball and Jota turned his back, he bottled it as he knew Agbonna was getting there first and would of took him out, as he turned his back his elbow went backwards and upwards.

Did he intentionally mean to hurt him? None of us know, but I genuinely believe if VAR had seen it he’d of walked.

Intent or not it was serious foul play and why does only one elbow go back?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457640811366010885

Click to expand...

That looks deliberate to me. You can't argue he uses the arm to jump/for leverage because he's already jumped, is on the way down and then the elbow goes out. He can only have been trying to catch the defender with it. As you say if they'd have gone to VAR they'd have surely viewed it as reckless at best.


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## DanFST (Nov 8, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Not for me, went to hurt the guy imo.
I find it a bit funny, Athletico play dirty and it’s they’re the worst team in the universe, Liverpool players cheat and get dirty, aaargh no it’s just normal 😂
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, Diving for Souček's yellow on the stroke of half time. Generally being a little knob. 

This is for the first goal, against Ogbonna why would your arms ever be like that , strengthening your other wrists, unless you wanted to give somone a dig in the ribs? Unfortunately the dig actually pushed Ogbonna towards the goalie who was so late as he was to busy playing with Iron Mike.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 8, 2021)

Well at least that may shut them up talking about 1966 for a bit.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well at least that may shut them up talking about 1966 for a bit. 

Click to expand...

Open top bus parade has been arranged 😁


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## DanFST (Nov 8, 2021)

Wont stop this thread being constantly clogged with Scouse delusion and hypocrisy tho will it? 


Liverbirdie said:



			Well at least that may shut them up talking about 1966 for a bit. 

Click to expand...


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That looks deliberate to me. You can't argue he uses the arm to jump/for leverage because he's already jumped, is on the way down and then the elbow goes out. He can only have been trying to catch the defender with it. As you say if they'd have gone to VAR they'd have surely viewed it as reckless at best.
		
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Don't let a tiny clip cloud your judgement, watch the full thing.

Nobody has said his arm is used for leverage. He's jumped and turned leading with his right side. It's completely natural  for his left  side to swing as he's turning  unless he's expected to jump with his arms strapped to his body.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 8, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well at least that may shut them up talking about 1966 for a bit. 

Click to expand...

We’re just grateful to be able contribute to The Liverpool thread. 👍


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 8, 2021)

Everyone talking about the reds again, no matter.

We should just have a Liverpool and united thread, leave all the others in their own thread.

FWIW Wimbledon, sorry West ham fully deserved the win. The first wasnt a foul on Alison, but the Cresswell one was deffo a red. Shin high tackle with excessive speed and force, it doesnt matter if it deflected off the ball, if the ball wouldnt have diverted his leg, it still would have been mid shin or ankle at best on Henderson. Similar to the Pogba one the other week.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2021)

So let me get this right, Jota is ok to raise his arm, but Ogbonna cannot. Glad we cleared that up.👍


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			What would you call it then? Stifled your pointless ticky-takka, marauded through the massive holes in your midfield and dominated totally at set pieces. 🤷‍♂️
		
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Possibly but I was answering “outplayed” which we were certainly not.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A genuine attempt to block the ball is not to bottle it and turn your back, if he can’t see Agbonna then he’s not in control.

The Cresswell challenge I thought was red at the time because he was not in control and we’ve seen red cards given for that. Imo, it was early in the game and he was putting a marker down, I thought VAR helped him stay on by showing his foot bounced off the ball.
		
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How can they explain the Holgate one then ?
He got the ball!


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			So let me get this right, Jota is ok to raise his arm, but Ogbonna cannot. Glad we cleared that up.👍
		
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No both were fouls.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			What the vid again, the elbow is late imo.

Anyway, that’s when it would of been 10 aside for me.

Roll on the Internationals this week.
		
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Don’t know why I have to watch the vid.
I have stated quite clearly he was lucky not to get sent off.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 8, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			How can they explain the Holgate one then ?
He got the ball!
		
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DERMOT'S VERDICT: "I think I am in the minority but I don't think it is a red card. I don't think it is a red card because at the point of contact I don't think he catches him like we saw [Mason] Holgate did. I think if the referee gives a free-kick and a yellow card, I don't think it gets ramped up and thrown to the VAR like it was. In isolation, I think that should have been a yellow card."

DERMOT'S VERDICT: "I think it is a good goal. I don't think Ogbonna has done anything wrong, really. He leaps for the ball and he's in front. Alisson comes into Ogbonna's space rather than the other way around. For me, I cannot see how it is a foul. I think the ref is quite right to give that on the field and I think the VAR was right not to ask him to review it."


We moan for years that refs don't explain their decisions.. now we have var and they do and have ex refs giving their explanation as to why it's happened 

But nope the fans know best


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Winning the ball hasn’t been a thing for about 30 years.
		
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According to some on here because Cresswell got a touch on the ball it’s ok to clatter Henderson on the knee.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			DERMOT'S VERDICT: "I think I am in the minority but I don't think it is a red card. I don't think it is a red card because at the point of contact I don't think he catches him like we saw [Mason] Holgate did. I think if the referee gives a free-kick and a yellow card, I don't think it gets ramped up and thrown to the VAR like it was. In isolation, I think that should have been a yellow card."

DERMOT'S VERDICT: "I think it is a good goal. I don't think Ogbonna has done anything wrong, really. He leaps for the ball and he's in front. Alisson comes into Ogbonna's space rather than the other way around. For me, I cannot see how it is a foul. I think the ref is quite right to give that on the field and I think the VAR was right not to ask him to review it."


We moan for years that refs don't explain their decisions.. now we have var and they do and have ex refs giving their explanation as to why it's happened

But nope the fans know best
		
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The ref hasn’t explained it,
Dermots not a ref any more. And he was crap when he was.
If you want to really hear some rubbish listen to Peter Walton on BT.

If we didn’t have a view there would be nothing to discuss!


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			The ref hasn’t explained it,
Dermots not a ref any more. And he was crap when he was.
If you want to really hear some rubbish listen to Peter Walton on BT.

If we didn’t have a view there would be nothing to discuss!
		
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As posted earlier.

VAR referee Stuart Attwell claims Aaron Cresswell was not sent off for his tackle on Jordan Henderson in West Ham’s 3-2 win over Liverpool because the challenge ‘didn’t have the required force or intensity’.

So one of the refs involved has explained it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			How can they explain the Holgate one then ?
He got the ball!
		
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Holgate cleared the ball with full contact and carried on straight legged, awful tackle!

Like I said I thought watching it live Cresswell was the same, however on the VAR review it showed Cresswell didn’t get clear contact on the ball and deflected into Henderson.

I still think Cresswell was lucky and Holgate got what he deserved.


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## Hobbit (Nov 9, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			As posted earlier.

VAR referee Stuart Attwell claims Aaron Cresswell was not sent off for his tackle on Jordan Henderson in West Ham’s 3-2 win over Liverpool because the challenge ‘didn’t have the required force or intensity’.

So one of the refs involved has explained it.
		
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Does the ref know the required force, and does he carry a strain gauge to measure the force that’s been applied? No he doesn’t. The level of force required to break a tibia, in a healthy adult, is around 220lbs. If a player weighs 170lbs, it doesn’t take much momentum to generate 220lbs.

Over the top tackles, like scissor tackles, should carry an automatic red card. If players are aware of that they will be more careful, more in control.

In the tackle that ended Harvey Elliot’s season it was the trailing leg that caught him, not the leg the tackler used to reach the ball. Pretty damn close to a scissor tackle…


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## Neilds (Nov 9, 2021)

I love it when armchair referees start criticising the proper referee. After all, it is easy to get the ‘right’ decision after seeing dozens of replays form all angles and speed. The ref has a split second to make most decisions without VAR and isn’t helped by players trying to dive and cheat all the time. And don’t even get me started on ‘contact’. Just because you touch someone doesn’t mean it is a foul!!!


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Does the ref know the required force, and does he carry a strain gauge to measure the force that’s been applied? No he doesn’t. The level of force required to break a tibia, in a healthy adult, is around 220lbs. If a player weighs 170lbs, it doesn’t take much momentum to generate 220lbs.

Over the top tackles, like scissor tackles, should carry an automatic red card. If players are aware of that they will be more careful, more in control.

In the tackle that ended Harvey Elliot’s season it was the trailing leg that caught him, not the leg the tackler used to reach the ball. Pretty damn close to a scissor tackle…
		
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Fact is we wouldn't even still be hearing about this tackle if Liverpool hadn't lost..

The two match officials agreed on a decision and no retrospective action is to be taken

Therefore it should be enough to draw a line under it

However klopp just used it as one of his excuses for the game 

In reality he was let down 3 times by his keeper and his midfield played poorly


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2021)

Neilds said:



			I love it when armchair referees start criticising the proper referee. After all, it is easy to get the ‘right’ decision after seeing dozens of replays form all angles and speed. The ref has a split second to make most decisions without VAR and isn’t helped by players trying to dive and cheat all the time. And don’t even get me started on ‘contact’. Just because you touch someone doesn’t mean it is a foul!!!
		
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Especially when they are so adamant that is was 100% the wrong decision, and blissfully ignoring the considerable number of people that disagree with them. If they believe it was a red, fair enough. But if many disagree, by definition it is not a clear mistake by the ref.

It is a perfect example of a challenge where, if you see the still it is a clear red card. If you actually see the challenge, and even the slow mo, it is not a red (in my opinion). 

At end of day, who cares? Liverpool are a better team than West Ham, but West Ham were better than Liverpool on the day and deserved to win. They showed Man Utd how to play against Liverpool at home, and the 5-0 win certainly wasn't an indicator as to how good Liverpool are, but how dreadful Utd are. West Ham look a good unit at the moment, would be nice to see them continue with the good form.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Especially when they are so adamant that is was 100% the wrong decision, and blissfully ignoring the considerable number of people that disagree with them. If they believe it was a red, fair enough. But if many disagree, by definition it is not a clear mistake by the ref.

It is a perfect example of a challenge where, if you see the still it is a clear red card. If you actually see the challenge, and even the slow mo, it is not a red (in my opinion).

At end of day, who cares? Liverpool are a better team than West Ham, but West Ham were better than Liverpool on the day and deserved to win. They showed Man Utd how to play against Liverpool at home, and the 5-0 win certainly wasn't an indicator as to how good Liverpool are, but how dreadful Utd are. West Ham look a good unit at the moment, would be nice to see them continue with the good form.
		
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Or, this is a forum were people can debate, express an opinion, get wound up, tell happy stories, be educated, etc etc.

Armchair experts are seen in every thread on this forum but it only gets moaned about in the football thread. If people don’t like what’s being discussed they always have the option to move on.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2021)

Neilds said:



			I love it when armchair referees start criticising the proper referee. After all, it is easy to get the ‘right’ decision after seeing dozens of replays form all angles and speed. The ref has a split second to make most decisions without VAR and isn’t helped by players trying to dive and cheat all the time. And don’t even get me started on ‘contact’. Just because you touch someone doesn’t mean it is a foul!!!
		
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But isn’t that why VAR was introduced?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2021)

Well - so have the rules changed on what football fans can now - discuss , complain , debate about ? 

So we now can’t debate refs decisions ? And we have to believe them when they come out and justify themselves ?

Every decision that is made now is correct and there is no debate to be had because it’s backed up by the VAR and then an ex ref in the studio

And managers now it seems are prickly and say things to defend their teams in the press - it’s only started now it seems 

And if your team loses and you can’t bring up poor decisions - line must be drawn under it 

So the same football debate that’s been happening for decades can no longer happen 🤷‍♂️

Is that the crux of it ?


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2021)

Think people would just prefer more honesty, less hypocrisy and far less repetition, may just be me though.....


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## Bdill93 (Nov 9, 2021)

So Villa are now without a manager. Dean Smith was classy from the start to the end and I wish him all the best in the future. I was not one calling for his head - not my style. 

I really have no idea where we go from here, there doesnt seem to be a lot of names out there that have prem experience.

Interesting that Gerrard hasnt yet ruled himself out, makes me think that there could be something there...


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			So Villa are now without a manager. Dean Smith was classy from the start to the end and I wish him all the best in the future. I was not one calling for his head - not my style.

I really have no idea where we go from here, there doesnt seem to be a lot of names out there that have prem experience.

Interesting that Gerrard hasnt yet ruled himself out, makes me think that there could be something there...
		
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I can't see you struggling for applications. You are well set up, stable, have a good squad. You are not a club in flux.

Do you think Smith was unlucky? He mentioned he was due back a number of injured players but I don't know enough about your team to know if that was just an excuse. As he did mention though, he left Villa stronger than when we arrived. No argument there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			Think people would just prefer more honesty, less hypocrisy and far less repetition, may just be me though.....
		
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It’s football - when that happens in the sport itself then maybe it might filter down to the fans 

Everyone is happy to point fingers at other teams but struggle to point them inwards 

If the tables were turned on Sunday and it was West Ham who lost and the same decisions against West Ham players then it would be pages of West Ham fans

Mistakes still happen in the sport , wrong decisions still get made and people will still debate them 

a number of Liverpool fans have even stated that West Ham deserved the win and the three points. There are fingers being pointed at Jota for his actions but then when they get pointed at Cresswell - oh no you can’t do that - the ref got it right there. So did he get it right for Jota then 🤷‍♂

As you say - hypocrisy , bias , all part of the sport and has been for decades


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well - so have the rules changed on what football fans can now - discuss , complain , debate about ?

So we now can’t debate refs decisions ? And we have to believe them when they come out and justify themselves ?

Every decision that is made now is correct and there is no debate to be had because it’s backed up by the VAR and then an ex ref in the studio

And managers now it seems are prickly and say things to defend their teams in the press - it’s only started now it seems

And if your team loses and you can’t bring up poor decisions - line must be drawn under it

So the same football debate that’s been happening for decades can no longer happen 🤷‍♂️

Is that the crux of it ?
		
Click to expand...

If the rules have changed you’ll find yourself with ALOT of spare time Phil 😂😂😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			Think people would just prefer more honesty, less hypocrisy and far less repetition, may just be me though.....
		
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Repetition😂😂 oh the irony 😂😂


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## Bdill93 (Nov 9, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't see you struggling for applications. You are well set up, stable, have a good squad. You are not a club in flux.

Do you think Smith was unlucky? He mentioned he was due back a number of injured players but I don't know enough about your team to know if that was just an excuse. As he did mention though, he left Villa stronger than when we arrived. No argument there.
		
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I think some bad luck - and some bad management.

We have resorted to long balling it to wingers who are 5.7" and 5.9" and thinking that will win us games... It got us absolutely nowhere. We are a football playing team and he seems to have lost that element.

Ings, Traore both injured at the moment - not really sure who else he thinks would make a significant difference to us though. Besides Ings no one out has banged in 15+ goals a season or creates 10+ so a weird statement from Dean.

He will always be remembered as a great manager who brought us back from the depths of the championship in my eyes - but he has never worked out how to play football/ win games without Jack, even when he was a villa player. Last year we won one when he was out injured, this year we have picked up on that same form really - despite key additions.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well - so have the rules changed on what football fans can now - discuss , complain , debate about ?

So we now can’t debate refs decisions ? And we have to believe them when they come out and justify themselves ?

Every decision that is made now is correct and there is no debate to be had because it’s backed up by the VAR and then an ex ref in the studio

And managers now it seems are prickly and say things to defend their teams in the press - it’s only started now it seems

And if your team loses and you can’t bring up poor decisions - line must be drawn under it

So the same football debate that’s been happening for decades can no longer happen 🤷‍♂️

Is that the crux of it ?
		
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So, it is OK for some to tell the rest of us it was a certain red card. But, if others say it was not a certain red card, or simply not a red card at all, that is not allowed? The very fact we disagree means we are not allowing you to express your opinion?

From my perspective, the only issue I have is the absolute certainty that the ref got it wrong and bottled it. And, looking back on the pictures, we are told it was a clear red, as clear as night and day. Well, it is as clear as night and day, if we're in the North Pole and they roll into each other. I get the argument it could have been a red card, so I'm not so critical if that is ones opinion. But, when one starts to indicate it was so clear and obvious, the argument falls apart when so many people disagree with that point of view. It is like the Jota incident. I can see how that could have been a red card, however I can also see why it wasn't given. It is one of those that only the player knows what the intent was, it could have been a complete accident, we can only speculate.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			So, it is OK for some to tell the rest of us it was a certain red card. But, if others say it was not a certain red card, or simply not a red card at all, that is not allowed? The very fact we disagree means we are not allowing you to express your opinion?

From my perspective, the only issue I have is the absolute certainty that the ref got it wrong and bottled it. And, looking back on the pictures it was a clear red, as clear as night and day. Well, it is as clear as night and day, if we're in the North Pole and they roll into each other. I get the argument it could have been a red card, so I'm not so critical if that is ones opinion. But, when one starts to indicate it was so clear and obvious, the argument falls apart when so many people disagree with that point of view. It is like the Jota incident. I can see how that could have been a red card, however I can also see why it wasn't given. It is one of those that only the player knows what the intent was, it could have been a complete accident, we can only speculate.
		
Click to expand...

You can see why Jota wasn't given because it's sly and you can't be without doubt that it wasn't an accident .. it's just a poor move from a snide player 

Cresswell was a poor tackle , should have been foul and booking ref mucked up sent to var. They talk about it together and decide it's not a red 

Can't give yellows by var so there we go


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			So, it is OK for some to tell the rest of us it was a certain red card. But, if others say it was not a certain red card, or simply not a red card at all, that is not allowed? The very fact we disagree means we are not allowing you to express your opinion?

From my perspective, the only issue I have is the absolute certainty that the ref got it wrong and bottled it. And, looking back on the pictures it was a clear red, as clear as night and day. Well, it is as clear as night and day, if we're in the North Pole and they roll into each other. I get the argument it could have been a red card, so I'm not so critical if that is ones opinion. But, when one starts to indicate it was so clear and obvious, the argument falls apart when so many people disagree with that point of view. It is like the Jota incident. I can see how that could have been a red card, however I can also see why it wasn't given. It is one of those that only the player knows what the intent was, it could have been a complete accident, we can only speculate.
		
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I believe you have missed the point 🤷‍♂️

The point is that some are suggesting that people can’t express an opinion , that they should just draw a line under it and just go with that the ref has given 🙄

Debate all you want - that’s the whole idea and that shouldn’t be stifled


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe you have missed the point 🤷‍♂️

The point is that some are suggesting that people can’t express an opinion , that they should just draw a line under it and just go with that the ref has given 🙄

Debate all you want - that’s the whole idea and that shouldn’t be stifled
		
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Can you highlight where someone has said you cannot express an opinion? Not being funny, I may well have missed that given all the back and forth.

Are you confusing someone disagreeing with you as suggesting you cannot have an opinion? When people use issues such as a ref, VAR and many pundits agreeing it probably was not a red card, they are simply using those to support their argument that it was not a clear red card. They are pretty reasonable things to use to support such a case. We all know that the ref and VAR do not always seem to back the majority decision, so it is not always cast iron proof. However, throw in the many pundits, and the opinions even in this forum, it all points towards this being a subjective call.

You may well believe it is a red card decision. Fine. I certainly will not suggest you cannot have that opinion. I also say if a red WAS given, I wouldn't say is was 100% the wrong call, even though my personal opinion was it wasn't a red. However, when it happened, I feared for Cresswell. Because I knew that even though I wouldn't give a red, there was a subjective argument it could be a red and that was up to the ref / VAR to decide.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Can you highlight where someone has said you cannot express an opinion? Not being funny, I may well have missed that given all the back and forth.

Are you confusing someone disagreeing with you as suggesting you cannot have an opinion? When people use issues such as a ref, VAR and many pundits agreeing it probably was not a red card, they are simply using those to support their argument that it was not a clear red card. They are pretty reasonable things to use to support such a case. We all know that the ref and VAR do not always seem to back the majority decision, so it is not always cast iron proof. However, throw in the many pundits, and the opinions even in this forum, it all points towards this being a subjective call.

You may well believe it is a red card decision. Fine. I certainly will say you cannot have that opinion. I also say if a red WAS given, I wouldn't say is was 100% the wrong call, even though my personal opinion was it wasn't a red. However, when it happened, I feared for Cresswell. Because I knew that even though I wouldn't give a red, there was a subjective argument it could be a red and that was up to the ref / VAR to decide.
		
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He's just fishing, because I said we should draw a line under it as the ref has explained. Var has decided 

Basically stop stating incorrect facts was My point 

It's been explained 

Klopp got his knickers in a twist 

We go again in 2 weeks


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Can you highlight where someone has said you cannot express an opinion? Not being funny, I may well have missed that given all the back and forth.

Are you confusing someone disagreeing with you as suggesting you cannot have an opinion? When people use issues such as a ref, VAR and many pundits agreeing it probably was not a red card, they are
simply using those to support their argument that it was not a clear red card. They are pretty reasonable things to use to support such a case. We all know that the ref and VAR do not always seem to back the majority decision, so it is not always cast iron proof. However, throw in the many pundits, and the opinions even in this forum, it all points towards this being a subjective call.

You may well believe it is a red card decision. Fine. I certainly will not suggest you cannot have that opinion. I also say if a red WAS given, I wouldn't say is was 100% the wrong call, even though my personal opinion was it wasn't a red. However, when it happened, I feared for Cresswell. Because I knew that even though I wouldn't give a red, there was a subjective argument it could be a red and that was up to the ref / VAR to decide.
		
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*See post #17930*



pauljames87 said:



			He's just fishing, because I said we should draw a line under it as the ref has explained. Var has decided

Basically stop stating incorrect facts was My point

It's been explained

Klopp got his knickers in a twist

We go again in 2 weeks
		
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*No he’s not, stop playing the poster*.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



*See post #17930*


*No he’s not, stop playing the poster*.
		
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In your opinion. I'll wait for VAR


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## Orikoru (Nov 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I think some bad luck - and some bad management.

We have resorted to long balling it to wingers who are 5.7" and 5.9" and thinking that will win us games... It got us absolutely nowhere. We are a football playing team and he seems to have lost that element.

Ings, Traore both injured at the moment - not really sure who else he thinks would make a significant difference to us though. Besides Ings no one out has banged in 15+ goals a season or creates 10+ so a weird statement from Dean.

He will always be remembered as a great manager who brought us back from the depths of the championship in my eyes - but he has never worked out how to play football/ win games without Jack, even when he was a villa player. Last year we won one when he was out injured, this year we have picked up on that same form really - despite key additions.
		
Click to expand...

Buendia and Bailey seemed like excellent signings, I thought they might sort of make up for Grealish a bit between them, two players to replace one, kind of thing. But they don't seem to have done much bar the odd game. Ings was obviously a great signing, but you're always going to get injuries with him - only reason he's not at a top club.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 9, 2021)

Looking forward to England qualifying for the WC this week, regardless of form I’d expect the following XI to start against Albania, barring any late injuries:

Pickford

Walker
Stones
Maquire
Chillwell

Rice
Phillips
Foden
Grealish

Kane
Sterling

Wouldn’t be my first XI, but I don’t expect Southgate to make any changes.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



*See post #17930*


*No he’s not, stop playing the poster*.
		
Click to expand...

Post 17930 said:

"I love it when armchair referees start criticising the proper referee. After all, it is easy to get the ‘right’ decision after seeing dozens of replays form all angles and speed. The ref has a split second to make most decisions without VAR and isn’t helped by players trying to dive and cheat all the time. And don’t even get me started on ‘contact’. Just because you touch someone doesn’t mean it is a foul!!!"

Are you implying it is this post that states that people are not entitled to their opinion?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2021)

On another note related to the West Ham game, I saw the Antonio interview after the match. One of the rare player interviews where the player actually has a personality, and doesn't give robotic answers that he has learned to give match after match. Therefore, a rare player interview that is actually worth a watch.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Post 17930 said:

"I love it when armchair referees start criticising the proper referee. After all, it is easy to get the ‘right’ decision after seeing dozens of replays form all angles and speed. The ref has a split second to make most decisions without VAR and isn’t helped by players trying to dive and cheat all the time. And don’t even get me started on ‘contact’. Just because you touch someone doesn’t mean it is a foul!!!"

Are you implying it is this post that states that people are not entitled to their opinion?
		
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Yes, it’s the one me, you and Phil responded to.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Fact is we wouldn't even still be hearing about this tackle if Liverpool hadn't lost..

The two match officials agreed on a decision and no retrospective action is to be taken

Therefore it should be enough to draw a line under it

However klopp just used it as one of his excuses for the game

In reality he was let down 3 times by his keeper and his midfield played poorly
		
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Sorry @pauldj42 look at this post.. by myself "draw a line under" so no that's not the post involved .


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## Bdill93 (Nov 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Buendia and Bailey seemed like excellent signings, I thought they might sort of make up for Grealish a bit between them, two players to replace one, kind of thing. But they don't seem to have done much bar the odd game. Ings was obviously a great signing, but you're always going to get injuries with him - only reason he's not at a top club.
		
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They probably could if they recieved the ball to feet from our midfielders. As apposed to the long ball from the CB over the top....


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			So Villa are now without a manager. Dean Smith was classy from the start to the end and I wish him all the best in the future. I was not one calling for his head - not my style.

I really have no idea where we go from here, there doesnt seem to be a lot of names out there that have prem experience.

Interesting that Gerrard hasnt yet ruled himself out, makes me think that there could be something there...
		
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I reckon it could be a job that Gerrard could look at

Villa are a stable squad , decent owners it seems , backed well and a decent fanbase 

It’s certainly a job he could look at to prove himself on the next step up 

Maybe John Terry could look at it 

I certainly think it’s an attractive job


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2021)

https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2021/november/09-november/angelo-ogbonna-injury-update

Sad news. Always worrying when a player goes down when it's nothing has seemed to have happened 

Not sure if it's same knee he had op on before 

As someone who's had that op done he's out for a while 

I hope Dawson and diop are ready .. there chance to shine .. most likely Dawson but diop needs to step up .. him and zouma have everything to be a top top partnership

Get well soon oggy


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2021)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....der-sustains-acl-injury-in-win-over-liverpool

Was very surprised that he still played on after - didn’t look comfortable , hopefully it’s not too serious

The knee certainly didn’t look good when he tried to turn with Salah


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## Bdill93 (Nov 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I reckon it could be a job that Gerrard could look at

Villa are a stable squad , decent owners it seems , backed well and a decent fanbase

It’s certainly a job he could look at to prove himself on the next step up

Maybe John Terry could look at it

I certainly think it’s an attractive job
		
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Owners ambition is Europe, they have the money and the know how to turn a club into world champions - Edens Bucks have won the NBA. 

Wouldnt want Terry. He hasnt managed yet - big step up from assistant to HC and not a gamble I want us to take.

Gerrard is the bookies favourite - it represents a good challenge - if he flourishes then he is hard to turn down for the Liverpool job when it finally comes up. I just worry a bit about premiership management experience - but theres not a lot out there with it!


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Owners ambition is Europe, they have the money and the know how to turn a club into world champions - Edens Bucks have won the NBA. 

Wouldnt want Terry. He hasnt managed yet - big step up from assistant to HC and not a gamble I want us to take.

Gerrard is the bookies favourite - it represents a good challenge - if he flourishes then he is hard to turn down for the Liverpool job when it finally comes up. I just worry a bit about premiership management experience - but theres not a lot out there with it!
		
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Roberto Martinez?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes, it’s the one me, you and Phil responded to.

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But, nothing to do with the question I asked, in terms of pointing out the post that said someone was not entitled to their opinion.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			Roberto Martinez?
		
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Not a chance in hell I would want him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			But, nothing to do with the question I asked, in terms of pointing out the post that said someone was not entitled to their opinion.
		
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The thread evolved from that post.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			They probably could if they recieved the ball to feet from our midfielders. As apposed to the long ball from the CB over the top....
		
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Do you think the dropping of the club captain showed there was problems off the pitch as well.
I did see some Villa games where the fans were screaming for a tactical change but he waited until half time but you were 2-0 down by then.
Think it was Arsenal game.?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2021/november/09-november/angelo-ogbonna-injury-update

Sad news. Always worrying when a player goes down when it's nothing has seemed to have happened

Not sure if it's same knee he had op on before

As someone who's had that op done he's out for a while

I hope Dawson and diop are ready .. there chance to shine .. most likely Dawson but diop needs to step up .. him and zouma have everything to be a top top partnership

Get well soon oggy
		
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Hope he’s ok .
It’s not a great op for a footballer.
He certainly had a day of it Sunday.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Owners ambition is Europe, they have the money and the know how to turn a club into world champions - Edens Bucks have won the NBA. 

Wouldnt want Terry. He hasnt managed yet - big step up from assistant to HC and not a gamble I want us to take.

Gerrard is the bookies favourite - it represents a good challenge - if he flourishes then he is hard to turn down for the Liverpool job when it finally comes up. I just worry a bit about premiership management experience - but theres not a lot out there with it!
		
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I’d be surprised If Gerrard left Rangers this season


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## pokerjoke (Nov 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			On another note related to the West Ham game, I saw the Antonio interview after the match. One of the rare player interviews where the player actually has a personality, and doesn't give robotic answers that he has learned to give match after match. Therefore, a rare player interview that is actually worth a watch.
		
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Didn’t see the interview 
For a guy that’s been lighting it up lately and is a formidable opponent he was given a lesson by VVD


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Didn’t see the interview
For a guy that’s been lighting it up lately and is a formidable opponent he was given a lesson by VVD
		
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There isn’t many get much change from him though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Not a chance in hell I would want him.


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Really ? 

I think he is a very good manager , has teams playing very well , certainly going to play good football 

Would be a good choice


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## Bdill93 (Nov 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do you think the dropping of the club captain showed there was problems off the pitch as well.
I did see some Villa games where the fans were screaming for a tactical change but he waited until half time but you were 2-0 down by then.
Think it was Arsenal game.?
		
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Dean doesnt make changes early even if there is a problem. Its been a frustration for a while - classic 70th minute subs type of manager. I never really had a big problem with it until this season - when the squad does have some real depth to it (for our level).



Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ?

I think he is a very good manager , has teams playing very well , certainly going to play good football

Would be a good choice
		
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Not a winner in my eyes. Done average with a very good squad at Belgium - was linked with us in the championship before that job so really..not sold on the guy.


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## 4LEX (Nov 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			On another note related to the West Ham game, I saw the Antonio interview after the match. One of the rare player interviews where the player actually has a personality, and doesn't give robotic answers that he has learned to give match after match. Therefore, a rare player interview that is actually worth a watch.
		
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I've got a funny story of Antonio at Cheltenham races  Certainly is a personality. Developed himself from a medicore winger into a top class striker. No one better at playing the lone 9 role at him in the whole league.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I've got a funny story of Antonio at Cheltenham races  Certainly is a personality. Developed himself from a medicore winger into a top class striker. No one better at playing the lone 9 role at him in the whole league.
		
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Yes I like him.
Is he English ,? We havnt got a decent CF for next week in form.


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## 4LEX (Nov 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Possibly but I was answering “outplayed” which we were certainly not.
		
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It was an interesting game but don't you see the worrying signs of last season in there? It was all sideways passes and aimless crosses. Liverpool weren't outplayed, you controlled the match but were so predictable, even Moyes had a game plan to counter it. I watched the first half before going out and knew you'd lose. West Ham looked like scoring everytime they attacked.

In my eyes it was a definite red card so it changed the game dramatically. 

Having seen Chelsea, Liverpool and City a lot this season I can't call it. Could be a genuine three horse race.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I like him.
Is he English ,? We havnt got a decent CF for next week in form.

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Jamaican . Looks like he never got a look in for England, although was an unused sub under Allardyce in 2016 and pulled out with injury under Southgate in 2017. He finally decided he wanted to represent Jamaica, obviously gave up on England. Made his debut for them last month, at the age of 31.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2021)

4LEX said:



			It was an interesting game but don't you see the worrying signs of last season in there? It was all sideways passes and aimless crosses. Liverpool weren't outplayed, you controlled the match but were so predictable, even Moyes had a game plan to counter it. I watched the first half before going out and knew you'd lose. West Ham looked like scoring everytime they attacked.

In my eyes it was a definite red card so it changed the game dramatically.

*Having seen Chelsea, Liverpool and City a lot this season I can't call it. Could be a genuine three horse race*.
		
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Are you ruling out Man Utd? It is only early November


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2021)

[



clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I like him.
Is he English ,? We havnt got a decent CF for next week in form.

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Never got capped by England. Got a call up then that was it

Useful player as can cover wings and up top but there are younger options who would keep him out


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I've got a funny story of Antonio at Cheltenham races  Certainly is a personality. Developed himself from a medicore winger into a top class striker. No one better at playing the lone 9 role at him in the whole league.
		
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He does something that scares 99% of Centre backs - he runs at them direct , he isn’t afraid to use his physical abilities and challenge them 

Toney is the same and hopefully he does well as he could add a different dimension to England 

Imo I reckon VVD loved the battle with Antonio and vice versa 

West Ham just need to find someone to be back up for him as he seems to have injury concerns


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## 4LEX (Nov 9, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He does something that scares 99% of Centre backs - he runs at them direct , he isn’t afraid to use his physical abilities and challenge them

Toney is the same and hopefully he does well as he could add a different dimension to England

Imo I reckon VVD loved the battle with Antonio and vice versa

West Ham just need to find someone to be back up for him as he seems to have injury concerns
		
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Yeah, his touch and finishing is a bit scattergun but he will keep on causing problems, as a centreback you can't switch off. I didn't see the second half but it looked like VVD was loving the first though. Toney is probably a better footballer but Antonio has a big physical advantage. England need some help up front with the form of Kane and no Plan B


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 9, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Yeah, his touch and finishing is a bit scattergun but he will keep on causing problems, as a centreback you can't switch off. I didn't see the second half but it looked like VVD was loving the first though. Toney is probably a better footballer but Antonio has a big physical advantage. England need some help up front with the form of Kane and no Plan B 

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A lot of the more direct forwards have had a poor first touch but when the ball sticks and they start to get a head of steam up it frightens defenders to death especially in the current era. Moyes definitely getting the best from him


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Jamaican . Looks like he never got a look in for England, although was an unused sub under Allardyce in 2016 and pulled out with injury under Southgate in 2017. He finally decided he wanted to represent Jamaica, obviously gave up on England. Made his debut for them last month, at the age of 31.
		
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That’s a pity with DCL ,Ings and Bamford injured.
We will have to do with Kane.


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## 4LEX (Nov 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a pity with DCL ,Ings and Bamford injured.
We will have to do with Kane.
		
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Can't believe he's 31, seems like yesterday he was a youth prospect.

DCL, Ings and Bamford is a really poor bunch. We better hope Kane gets back on it.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2021)

4LEX said:



			It was an interesting game but don't you see the worrying signs of last season in there? It was all sideways passes and aimless crosses. Liverpool weren't outplayed, you controlled the match but were so predictable, even Moyes had a game plan to counter it. I watched the first half before going out and knew you'd lose. West Ham looked like scoring everytime they attacked.

In my eyes it was a definite red card so it changed the game dramatically.

Having seen Chelsea, Liverpool and City a lot this season I can't call it. Could be a genuine three horse race.
		
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Yes there are things I don’t like.
Klopp has his way of playing and dosnt change it.
Why we play such a high defensive line is a worry 
But let’s not forget if Mane could finish we should have had at least another goal.
Plus our keeper ( who is usually solid) had one of those days! It happens.
We might be predictable but it’s still very difficult to stop when we play well.
But when teams sit back we struggle to open them up sometimes.
It’s why I have said we need a proper goalscorer. And a plan B.


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## 4LEX (Nov 9, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes there are things I don’t like.
Klopp has his way of playing and dosnt change it.
Why we play such a high defensive line is a worry
But let’s not forget if Mane could finish we should have had at least another goal.
Plus our keeper ( who is usually solid) had one of those days! It happens.
We might be predictable but it’s still very difficult to stop when we play well.
But when teams sit back we struggle to open them up sometimes.
It’s why I have said we need a proper goalscorer. And a plan B.
		
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You're such a good team and have started the season on fire, but yesterday was a huge match for the title. A win and you'd be flying. A predictable defeat and it opens up the same questions. The same thing that happened at West Ham will happen half a dozen more times this season but I don't think Liverpool have the quality to answer the questions. Mane has always been high energy, low on quality, he just benefits from the system and chaos it causes. If Salah doesn't turn up in a key moment, you're struggling.

City are way off getting 90 points without a sriker and Chelsea have injury issues so it really should be yours to lose.


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## AliMc (Nov 10, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I’d be surprised If Gerrard left Rangers this season
		
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Seriously you think that, a club that he has commented have given him no money to spend to compete in Europe, just announced £23.5 million losses in the last year, Gerrard cares about Gerrard, if he ultimately wants to be considered for the Liverpool job he's not going there directly from a club in Scotland, Villa would appear to be a good stepping stone, personally I think Villa would have been better off keeping Smith, just my opinion 😉


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## rudebhoy (Nov 10, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I’d be surprised If Gerrard left Rangers this season
		
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I wouldn't. 

His long term ambition is the Liverpool job. He will recognise that a good stint in the EPL will help his case enormously. 

He's not getting it anywhere as easy at Rangers this season, dropping a lot of points, conceding a lot more goals, and Celtic looking like throwing down a serious challenge after last season's capitulation. Also, financial problems looming again - chairman has publically stated they need to raise £7.5m to see out the season. Might not sound a lot, but this is the SPL not the EPL, and the banks won't lend them a penny. Good chance they will be losing some of their better players in January to cover this.

If I were him, I'd be thinking this is a good time to cash in his chips.


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## AliMc (Nov 10, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			I wouldn't.

His long term ambition is the Liverpool job. He will recognise that a good stint in the EPL will help his case enormously.

He's not getting it anywhere as easy at Rangers this season, dropping a lot of points, conceding a lot more goals, and Celtic looking like throwing down a serious challenge after last season's capitulation. Also, financial problems looming again - chairman has publically stated they need to raise £7.5m to see out the season. Might not sound a lot, but this is the SPL not the EPL, and the banks won't lend them a penny. Good chance they will be losing some of their better players in January to cover this.

If I were him, I'd be thinking this is a good time to cash in his chips.
		
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Good post rudebhoy


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## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Seriously you think that, a club that he has commented have given him no money to spend to compete in Europe, just announced £23.5 million losses in the last year, Gerrard cares about Gerrard, if he ultimately wants to be considered for the Liverpool job *he's not going there directly from a club in Scotland*, Villa would appear to be a good stepping stone, personally I think Villa would have been better off keeping Smith, just my opinion 😉
		
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Why not?

He could continue to build a strong legacy in a relatively easy league up in Scotland, get used to that winning mentality as a manager, and then be a good fit for Liverpool when the time comes. Or, he could go to a rubbish team in the Premier League and take a huge risk. If he turns them around, fair enough, but he is still unlikely to put them in a position where every game they expect to win. So he'd still not be a manager that people would consider a "winner", perhaps at best a reputation as a good solid manager like Moyes. Worse still, he finds the players are just not good enough, or he gets bad luck, and Villa continue to be a poor team. That could well and truly end his hopes at becoming Liverpool manager in the future. I think he'd be better staying up in Scotland for the time being.


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## rudebhoy (Nov 10, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Good post rudebhoy
		
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Just saw yours after I posted (I was catching up and was a few pages back when I replied)


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## Billysboots (Nov 10, 2021)

fundy said:



			Think people would just prefer more honesty, less hypocrisy and far less repetition, may just be me though.....
		
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We certainly seem to go around in circles a lot, when a debate has already been done to death. Did I mention I think Solskjaer should go? 😉

Seriously, though, the repetition must be mind numbing for the neutral.


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## rudebhoy (Nov 10, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Why not?

He could continue to build a strong legacy in a relatively easy league up in Scotland, get used to that winning mentality as a manager, and then be a good fit for Liverpool when the time comes. Or, he could go to a rubbish team in the Premier League and take a huge risk. If he turns them around, fair enough, but he is still unlikely to put them in a position where every game they expect to win. So he'd still not be a manager that people would consider a "winner", perhaps at best a reputation as a good solid manager like Moyes. Worse still, he finds the players are just not good enough, or he gets bad luck, and Villa continue to be a poor team. That could well and truly end his hopes at becoming Liverpool manager in the future. I think he'd be better staying up in Scotland for the time being.
		
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Have you looked at his record in Scotland? He has won 1 domestic trophy out of 9, and that was due in large part to Celtic's catastrophic self-destruction. St Johnstone have won more trophies than Rangers in that period, it's not a great record at all.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 10, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Seriously you think that, a club that he has commented have given him no money to spend to compete in Europe, just announced £23.5 million losses in the last year, Gerrard cares about Gerrard, if he ultimately wants to be considered for the Liverpool job he's not going there directly from a club in Scotland, Villa would appear to be a good stepping stone, personally I think Villa would have been better off keeping Smith, just my opinion 😉
		
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The money…he will follow the money as players do. 

In last transfer window StJ lost their best midfielder to PNE and best defender to Wigan…why?  Well both young - the midfielder was being paid £800 a week at StJ and a reported £10,000 a week at his new club.  I think the defender was similar situation.  OK I know StJ ain’t Rangers…but they most years balance the books.  Doubt even Rangers have the money to compete for StJs best players…🙄

Gerrard will go if the offer is made, to a decent mid-table Championship club or at best a EPL/Championship yo-yo club.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 10, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Have you looked at his record in Scotland? He has won 1 domestic trophy out of 9, and that was due in large part to Celtic's catastrophic self-destruction. St Johnstone have won more trophies than Rangers in that period, it's not a great record at all.
		
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Aye - the mighty Saints of last season, but not so mighty now they have lost their two best players…and that’s pretty much all it takes to swing from double Scottish cup winners to struggling to get into mid-table…yet they still make Rangers struggle to beat them 🙄


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## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Have you looked at his record in Scotland? He has won 1 domestic trophy out of 9, and that was due in large part to Celtic's catastrophic self-destruction. St Johnstone have won more trophies than Rangers in that period, it's not a great record at all.
		
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He didn't take over a successful team, so I wouldn't expect him to immediately start winning every trophy. However, he must have been doing something right, in winning their first Premiership trophy in 10 years. Celtic were woeful, but that could as much been a part of actually having a challenger for the first time in ages, and they couldn't cope with the pressure Gerrards team put on them. Cup football is cup football, it is not always the best team that win the trophy. 

Regardless of that, how many trophies is he likely to win at Villa?


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## rudebhoy (Nov 10, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			He didn't take over a successful team, so I wouldn't expect him to immediately start winning every trophy. However, he must have been doing something right, in winning their first Premiership trophy in 10 years. Celtic were woeful, but that could as much been a part of actually having a challenger for the first time in ages, and they couldn't cope with the pressure Gerrards team put on them. Cup football is cup football, it is not always the best team that win the trophy.

Regardless of that, how many trophies is he likely to win at Villa?
		
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He took over the team with the second biggest budget. Which was probably 10 times that of the team with the third highest budget. They should have been good enough to put up a decent challenge in his first two seasons in the SPL, but Celtic won both at a canter. Rangers were actually 11 points worse in the second season.

Celtic's implosion was not down to not being able to handle the pressure - they had won 10 domestic trophies in a row by that point, including 6 cup finals, so were used to pressure. They fell apart due to a perfect storm of not bothering to invest in an stale and ageing team and having a clown as a manager who refused to go even when it was obvious he had lost the plot (and the dressing room) totally. 

But in answer to your question, I'd guess he would win one less trophy at Villa than at Rangers, however if he can get Villa in the top half for a couple of seasons, it's job done.


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## AliMc (Nov 10, 2021)

There is a challenge in Scotland this year and not just from Celtic, he is in charge of an aging team on the way down (going by their poor form this season) and Celtic look like they may be on the way up


Swango1980 said:



			Why not?

He could continue to build a strong legacy in a relatively easy league up in Scotland, get used to that winning mentality as a manager, and then be a good fit for Liverpool when the time comes. Or, he could go to a rubbish team in the Premier League and take a huge risk. If he turns them around, fair enough, but he is still unlikely to put them in a position where every game they expect to win. So he'd still not be a manager that people would consider a "winner", perhaps at best a reputation as a good solid manager like Moyes. Worse still, he finds the players are just not good enough, or he gets bad luck, and Villa continue to be a poor team. That could well and truly end his hopes at becoming Liverpool manager in the future. I think he'd be better staying up in Scotland for the time being.
		
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Swango1980 said:



			Why not?

He could continue to build a strong legacy in a relatively easy league up in Scotland, get used to that winning mentality as a manager, and then be a good fit for Liverpool when the time comes. Or, he could go to a rubbish team in the Premier League and take a huge risk. If he turns them around, fair enough, but he is still unlikely to put them in a position where every game they expect to win. So he'd still not be a manager that people would consider a "winner", perhaps at best a reputation as a good solid manager like Moyes. Worse still, he finds the players are just not good enough, or he gets bad luck, and Villa continue to be a poor team. That could well and truly end his hopes at becoming Liverpool manager in the future. I think he'd be better staying up in Scotland for the time being.
		
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Rangers look like an aging team this year on the way down with little or no money to spend to improve things, Celtic look to be on the way back up and probably will make more signings in January, stopping 10 iar was massive last year, of course they could win it again this year but at least there is a challenge this year, the prospect of losing to an unknown Australian from the J League won't do the ego much good, his stock is high in England just now, I think he's for the off


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## AliMc (Nov 10, 2021)

AliMc said:



			There is a challenge in Scotland this year and not just from Celtic, he is in charge of an aging team on the way down (going by their poor form this season) and Celtic look like they may be on the way up


Rangers look like an aging team this year on the way down with little or no money to spend to improve things, Celtic look to be on the way back up and probably will make more signings in January, stopping 10 iar was massive last year, of course they could win it again this year but at least there is a challenge this year, the prospect of losing to an unknown Australian from the J League won't do the ego much good, his stock is high in England just now, I think he's for the off
		
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Sorry don't know what happened there, I was typing this in the hospital after getting my flu & booster jabs and lost the signal


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## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			He took over the team with the second biggest budget. Which was probably 10 times that of the team with the third highest budget. They should have been good enough to put up a decent challenge in his first two seasons in the SPL, but Celtic won both at a canter. *Rangers were actually 11 points worse in the second season.*

Celtic's implosion was not down to not being able to handle the pressure -* they had won 10 domestic trophies in a row by that point, including 6 cup finals, so were used to pressure.* They fell apart due to a perfect storm of not bothering to invest in an stale and ageing team and having a clown as a manager who refused to go even when it was obvious he had lost the plot (and the dressing room) totally.

But in answer to your question, I'd guess he would win one less trophy at Villa than at Rangers, however if he can get Villa in the top half for a couple of seasons, it's job done.
		
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Seriously!? What pressure? They had zero competition for 10 years, there was no pressure on them at all. The Scottish league was an embarrassment. It would be like Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester (and maybe even West Ham and Everton) all getting booted out of the Premier League, and then Man Utd fans boasting about winning the title every year. 

Also, Rangers finished with 78 points in the 2018-19 season, and with 67 points in the 2019-20 season. So, theoretically you could say they had 11 points less. However, are you forgetting about Covid, and the fact the season was ended early. Rangers played 9 games less in Gerrard's second season. If they had finished the season, and scored at the same rate, they'd have ended up with 10 points more in his second season.

I'm not saying he won't go, he may well do. Bookmakers think so. I just think it is a big risk. I don't follow Scottish football and cannot speak on behalf of Rangers fans. But, I'd imagine Gerrard may be becoming a cult hero up there with their fans. I suspect he'd like that, and it always helps the CV. Winning things and being adored by the fans. It could that he could build on that legacy, and the only other team he'd go to would be Liverpool for understandable reasons (or even England). In the wider scheme of things, I doubt many care he is not winning domestic cups in Scotland, albeit it would be a nice addition. It is the fact that he won the Premiership, the key title. They are also aiming to do the same again for the second consecutive year. Does he just walk out on Rangers now, to take on a rubbish Premiership team that he has no real ties to? Maybe.


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## AliMc (Nov 10, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Seriously!? What pressure? They had zero competition for 10 years, there was no pressure on them at all. The Scottish league was an embarrassment. It would be like Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester (and maybe even West Ham and Everton) all getting booted out of the Premier League, and then Man Utd fans boasting about winning the title every year.

Also, Rangers finished with 78 points in the 2018-19 season, and with 67 points in the 2019-20 season. So, theoretically you could say they had 11 points less. However, are you forgetting about Covid, and the fact the season was ended early. Rangers played 9 games less in Gerrard's second season. If they had finished the season, and scored at the same rate, they'd have ended up with 10 points more in his second season.

I'm not saying he won't go, he may well do. Bookmakers think so. I just think it is a big risk. I don't follow Scottish football and cannot speak on behalf of Rangers fans. But, I'd imagine Gerrard may be becoming a cult hero up there with their fans. I suspect he'd like that, and it always helps the CV. Winning things and being adored by the fans. It could that he could build on that legacy, and the only other team he'd go to would be Liverpool for understandable reasons (or even England). In the wider scheme of things, I doubt many care he is not winning domestic cups in Scotland, albeit it would be a nice addition. It is the fact that he won the Premiership, the key title. They are also aiming to do the same again for the second consecutive year. Does he just walk out on Rangers now, to take on a rubbish Premiership team that he has no real ties to? Maybe.
		
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Your right Swango he is a cult hero to their fans and rightly so although I've seen that one of them is now comparing him to Harold Shipman !


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## rudebhoy (Nov 10, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Seriously!? What pressure? They had zero competition for 10 years, there was no pressure on them at all. The Scottish league was an embarrassment. It would be like Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester (and maybe even West Ham and Everton) all getting booted out of the Premier League, and then Man Utd fans boasting about winning the title every year.

Also, Rangers finished with 78 points in the 2018-19 season, and with 67 points in the 2019-20 season. So, theoretically you could say they had 11 points less. However, are you forgetting about Covid, and the fact the season was ended early. Rangers played 9 games less in Gerrard's second season. If they had finished the season, and scored at the same rate, they'd have ended up with 10 points more in his second season.

I'm not saying he won't go, he may well do. Bookmakers think so. I just think it is a big risk. I don't follow Scottish football and cannot speak on behalf of Rangers fans. But, I'd imagine Gerrard may be becoming a cult hero up there with their fans. I suspect he'd like that, and it always helps the CV. Winning things and being adored by the fans. It could that he could build on that legacy, and the only other team he'd go to would be Liverpool for understandable reasons (or even England). In the wider scheme of things, I doubt many care he is not winning domestic cups in Scotland, albeit it would be a nice addition. It is the fact that he won the Premiership, the key title. They are also aiming to do the same again for the second consecutive year. Does he just walk out on Rangers now, to take on a rubbish Premiership team that he has no real ties to? Maybe.
		
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Rangers may have ended up with more points if the season hadn't finished, however when the season was finished early, they were 13 points behind Celtic. So if Celtic had also scored at the same rate, the difference would have been 17 or 18, compared to 9 points the previous season. So it is fair to say they performed worse relative to Celtic than the previous season.

Interesting that you don't think playing in a cup final is a pressure situation, or than being expected to win most weeks doesn't bring pressure. There are many decent players who have gone to Celtic or Rangers, and failed there, because they couldn't handle that pressure.

Would he take on a "rubbish Premiership team he has no ties to"? If the money is right, and it helps him ultimately get the Liverpool job, of course he would. He did after all take on a rubbish SPL club in a league which is "an embarrassment"


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## pokerjoke (Nov 10, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Seriously you think that, a club that he has commented have given him no money to spend to compete in Europe, just announced £23.5 million losses in the last year, Gerrard cares about Gerrard, if he ultimately wants to be considered for the Liverpool job he's not going there directly from a club in Scotland, Villa would appear to be a good stepping stone, personally I think Villa would have been better off keeping Smith, just my opinion 😉
		
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I do
After last seasons Title win he’s a hero to the Rangers fans.
He will leave obviously but I just don’t think it will be to the end of the season.
I could be proved wrong because loyalty in football is rare these days.


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## GB72 (Nov 10, 2021)

It is interesting. Guess you never know when the Liverpool job may turn up (not saying Klopp would leave, just that life has a way of throwing up surprises). Seems to be the argument for anyone taking over a big Premiership club is whether the manager has Premiership or top european league experience. So, is it best to get that box ticked now with the gamble that a poor showing at a new club could dent your CV going forward or do you keep developing in the safer environment that you are now in. 

Personally, I would see Villa as a decent option. Decent spending budget, unlikely to be looking at relegation, knocking on the door of the top 6 seen as a decent performance. You would have to think of which other club would offer that (that would also accept his Liverpool background) and you are probably looking at maybe 3 or 4 clubs. Of those, the only other possibility may be Leicester if Rodgers ended up with the job at Man U.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Rangers may have ended up with more points if the season hadn't finished, however when the season was finished early, they were 13 points behind Celtic. So if Celtic had also scored at the same rate, the difference would have been 17 or 18, compared to 9 points the previous season. So it is fair to say they performed worse relative to Celtic than the previous season.

Interesting that you don't think playing in a cup final is a pressure situation, or than being expected to win most weeks doesn't bring pressure. There are many decent players who have gone to Celtic or Rangers, and failed there, because they couldn't handle that pressure.

Would he take on a "rubbish Premiership team he has no ties to"? If the money is right, and it helps him ultimately get the Liverpool job, of course he would. He did after all take on a rubbish SPL club in a league which is "an embarrassment" 

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First sentence response: Your initial point by simply saying Rangers had 11 points less than the previous season was SERIOUSLY flawed. I was simply pointing that out. You are now trying to dig yourself out of a hole. Also, the difference would not have been 17 or 18, it would have been 13. Rangers had a game in hand at the end of the season. And, lastly, Celtic obviously played extremely well that season, so cannot take that away from them. All the better that Rangers were able to beat them them following season, and there would have been pressure on Celtic when suddenly they are in a battle they've not experienced in a decade.

Second sentence response: Literally at no point did I say playing a cup final is not a pressure situation. I was simply pointing out that league titles are the key trophies to win in most cases and get the greatest attention.

Third sentence: He took on a RELATIVELY big club (in the league they play in) in a rubbish league, it was a pretty good choice. Firstly, he had nothing on his managerial CV, so it was unlikely he was going to get a world great team. Yes, the Scottish Premiership is a relatively poor league, but it is close enough to home for his achievements to get noticed here in England, it is still in the UK after all. Had he gone to the Austrian league, for example, any accomplishments would be largely diluted because, well it is the Austrian league. I agree, he may simply chase the money, and if Villa offer him more then he may let money do the talking. My argument all along is that it may not help him get the Liverpool job. He will hope and pray he can get the players to perform and get strong results. But, football is about risks, so maybe it is one he is prepared to take.


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## fundy (Nov 10, 2021)

GB72 said:



			It is interesting. Guess you never know when the Liverpool job may turn up (not saying Klopp would leave, just that life has a way of throwing up surprises). Seems to be the argument for anyone taking over a big Premiership club is whether the manager has Premiership or top european league experience. So, is it best to get that box ticked now with the gamble that a poor showing at a new club could dent your CV going forward or do you keep developing in the safer environment that you are now in. 

Personally, I would see Villa as a decent option. Decent spending budget, unlikely to be looking at relegation, knocking on the door of the top 6 seen as a decent performance. You would have to think of which other club would offer that (that would also accept his Liverpool background) and you are probably looking at maybe 3 or 4 clubs. Of those, the only other possibility may be Leicester if Rodgers ended up with the job at Man U.
		
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Well if Klopp is true to his word he leaves in summer of 2024 (assuming they dont sack him before then)


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## rudebhoy (Nov 10, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Literally at no point did I say playing a cup final is not a pressure situation.
		
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wasn’t it you who said Celtic had no pressure at all for 10 years? 😄

anyway I’m out now. Life’s too short.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			wasn’t it you who said Celtic had no pressure at all for 10 years? 😄

anyway I’m out now. Life’s too short.
		
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In winning the title. They had no competition. And, even in winning cups, they had no real competition. For them, the relative pressure would have been more in cups, simply because even rubbish teams can beat great teams on their day in the sun. However, I DID not say that there is no pressure in winning a cup, every cup in the world, every team in the world.

You have a remarkable way of trying to read between the lines and coming up with completely the wrong context of what was being said.


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## GB72 (Nov 10, 2021)

fundy said:



			Well if Klopp is true to his word he leaves in summer of 2024 (assuming they dont sack him before then)
		
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With that in mind, a move now seems sensible to get a couple of years of that top european league experience. Not sure who else would be on the radar over the next 12 months, especially if clubs are aware that any appointment may only last for a limited period. Only other option I can see is if Rodgers does go to United and there is a vacancy at Leicester. That would be interesting, not sure of any other club would have had successive managers from Rangers and Celtic.


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## fundy (Nov 10, 2021)

GB72 said:



			With that in mind, a move now seems sensible to get a couple of years of that top european league experience. Not sure who else would be on the radar over the next 12 months, especially if clubs are aware that any appointment may only last for a limited period. Only other option I can see is if Rodgers does go to United and there is a vacancy at Leicester. That would be interesting, not sure of any other club would have had successive managers from Rangers and Celtic.
		
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You would think with that in mind Liverpool would already be planning, potentially with an internal candidate? If clubs learnt anything from the mess at United post Ferguson and Arsenal post Wenger it should be manager progression planning is critical! I know theres been rumours of Klopp having a year off then returning with an in house caretaker in the interim, not sure how much truth there is in that (not to mention 2024 is a long way off in football terms)


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 10, 2021)

This is one for those of a certain vintage, most on here to be fair , but it has just been announced that Gerald Sinstadt has died. 

Sinstadt was an excellent football commentator, a voice I grew up with. He was a good age, 91, so we should remember with fondness rather than sadness. Another voice of an era goes though..........


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## pauljames87 (Nov 10, 2021)

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-stake-in-west-ham?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

27% the club for £150 million , the rumour is in 2023 (when the Dave's don't have to pay tax) the take over will fully be complete 

That's our transfer kitty sorted out for now

Good old soucek .. he got us in coufal at right back ... He now helped get this investment lol and rumours that sparta Prague will become a club we loan players too ... They have a young striker on the books we want and now our owners are one


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 10, 2021)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...n-poses-fashion-cover-FLARED-suit-shorts.html

Well it’s certainly different.
Don’t think I could pull the look off tho 😬


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2021)

4LEX said:



			You're such a good team and have started the season on fire, but yesterday was a huge match for the title. A win and you'd be flying. A predictable defeat and it opens up the same questions. The same thing that happened at West Ham will happen half a dozen more times this season but I don't think Liverpool have the quality to answer the questions. Mane has always been high energy, low on quality, he just benefits from the system and chaos it causes. If Salah doesn't turn up in a key moment, you're struggling.

City are way off getting 90 points without a sriker and Chelsea have injury issues so it really should be yours to lose.
		
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Sounds like West Ham are favourites then.
We all have weak spots and think the winners will be the ones who buy clever in the next transfer window.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 10, 2021)

West ham must have become a top 4 club

Rice withdraws from England squad


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## pokerjoke (Nov 10, 2021)

Are the rumours true Stevie G to Villa is nearly done?


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## AliMc (Nov 10, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Are the rumours true Stevie G to Villa is nearly done?
		
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Looks like it may be and according to most 9n their fans forum they're a bit underwhelmed


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## JT77 (Nov 11, 2021)

I think Villa have to pay 3 million or so to land him and rangers by all accounts need the money so it may be in their interest to let him go.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 11, 2021)

Shame it would ruin their league system but I'd of loved to have seen rangers and celtic installed into the English leagues around league 2 and earn their way up

They always maintain with the money English clubs get they would be huge..think they would easily make championship then take a few years to come up

Swansea and Cardiff were great change to see in prem.. and Swansea won the league cup 

Imagine away days in Scotland .. would be interesting


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## rudebhoy (Nov 11, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Shame it would ruin their league system but I'd of loved to have seen rangers and celtic installed into the English leagues around league 2 and earn their way up

They always maintain with the money English clubs get they would be huge..think they would easily make championship then take a few years to come up

Swansea and Cardiff were great change to see in prem.. and Swansea won the league cup

Imagine away days in Scotland .. would be interesting
		
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A lot of fans of other Scottish clubs believe that would be a good thing.

I'd love to see it happen, but doubt that it will, at least not in my lifetime.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Are the rumours true Stevie G to Villa is nearly done?
		
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Ita ll over every villa news feed and all over twitter. - Collymore tweeted "Its done"

Just finalising his back room staff. 

Wouldnt be suprised if we announce today.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2021)

Confirmed he has the job - going to be a big 2 and half years now for him


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## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2021)

Steven Gerrard's Claret and Blue armyyyyyyyyy


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## Piece (Nov 11, 2021)

Let's see if he can turn Mings into a decent centre half


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## Swango1980 (Nov 11, 2021)

Piece said:



			Let's see if he can turn Mings into a decent centre half 

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I wonder if he'll sign Defoe


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## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2021)

Piece said:



			Let's see if he can turn Mings into a decent centre half 

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Already is - he's just inconsistent.

We had one of the best defences in the league last year for clean sheets and we conceded tied 8th in the league. He's never let England down - always seems to do well for them.

Not sure why everyone hates on Mings so much...


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## pokerjoke (Nov 11, 2021)

No loyalty in football 
Feel Rangers fans will resent him now especially if it all goes wrong for Rangers this season


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## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			No loyalty in football
Feel Rangers fans will resent him now especially if it all goes wrong for Rangers this season
		
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They do need the money though to be fair.... And he stopped the 10 in a row.

But yeah, absolutely - loyalty is dead in football.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			No loyalty in football
Feel Rangers fans will resent him now especially if it all goes wrong for Rangers this season
		
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Did Norwich show loyalty to Farke?
Newcastle to Bruce?
Villa to Smith?
Watford to Munoz?

You are right, there is no loyalty in football. Players, managers, clubs all look after themselves first of all, it is a vicious circle. People raise loyalty when it suits them, not having a go here, but forget it when they want rid of a player, manger etc that they believe is not performing. As a manger you are aways close to the sack, let's not blame a manager when they jump ship before the chop reaches them.


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## Orikoru (Nov 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			No loyalty in football
Feel Rangers fans will resent him now especially if it all goes wrong for Rangers this season
		
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Why should there be loyalty? If any of us got offered a better job in terms of pay and location we'd probably take it. I don't really understand the typical football fan's expectation of 'loyalty'.


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## Piece (Nov 11, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



*Already is - he's just inconsistent.*

We had one of the best defences in the league last year for clean sheets and we conceded tied 8th in the league. He's never let England down - always seems to do well for them.

Not sure why everyone hates on Mings so much...
		
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Exactly my point...turn him into a consistent performer. There's a spot at international level with Maguire out of form and Stones in & out of the City team.


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## fundy (Nov 11, 2021)

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

From the BBC Gossip page:

Paul Pogba wants to renew his contract with Manchester United but the 28-year-old France midfielder is demanding he overtakes Cristiano Ronaldo to become the Premier League's highest-paid player. (L'Equipe, via Metro)


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## Orikoru (Nov 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

From the BBC Gossip page:

Paul Pogba wants to renew his contract with Manchester United but the 28-year-old France midfielder is demanding he overtakes Cristiano Ronaldo to become the Premier League's highest-paid player. (L'Equipe, via Metro)
		
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I think he'd be better off playing in China at this point. Get paid all the money and barely have to lift a finger.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did Norwich show loyalty to Farke?
Newcastle to Bruce?
Villa to Smith?
Watford to Munoz?

You are right, there is no loyalty in football. Players, managers, clubs all look after themselves first of all, it is a vicious circle. People raise loyalty when it suits them, not having a go here, but forget it when they want rid of a player, manger etc that they believe is not performing. As a manger you are aways close to the sack, let's not blame a manager when they jump ship before the chop reaches them.
		
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To be fair to Norwich - he took them up and down a couple times before they've pulled the trigger. More than most would.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think he'd be better off playing in China at this point. Get paid all the money and barely have to lift a finger.
		
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Pogba is just banter. Plays well for France and did well in Italy and seems to think hes worth the most money at united


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 11, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			To be fair to Norwich - he took them up and down a couple times before they've pulled the trigger. More than most would.
		
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You can make a case for each and every one, both ways. 

In the case of Norwich, Farke took them up twice, playing attractive football. Carrow Road was a sell out each week, he had limited, for the PL, money to spend. 1st time up he barely had a peny as the club used the money to balance the books. Take all into account, he did a very good job. I can see why they sacked him but you can make a case for him to stay quite easily. I think he will find another job quite easily, whether in England or in Europe.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You can make a case for each and every one, both ways.

In the case of Norwich, Farke took them up twice, playing attractive football. Carrow Road was a sell out each week, he had limited, for the PL, money to spend. 1st time up he barely had a peny as the club used the money to balance the books. Take all into account, he did a very good job. I can see why they sacked him but you can make a case for him to stay quite easily. I think he will find another job quite easily, whether in England or in Europe.
		
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I think he did well for them too - but agree that I can see why hes gone - albeit maybe a little late to save them this season - but time will tell. 

I think he will fall on his feet for sure, plenty of clubs want attacking football and he provides that.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Why should there be loyalty? If any of us got offered a better job in terms of pay and location we'd probably take it. I don't really understand the typical football fan's expectation of 'loyalty'.
		
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Totally agree with this. When Paul Lambert left us to go to Norwich he got dogs abuse from some sections of our fans. But to me he was leaving to go to a better job with a bigger club and more money. I'm surprised it took him longer than 5 seconds to decide.


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## Piece (Nov 11, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I think he'd be better off playing in China at this point. Get paid all the money and barely have to lift a finger.
		
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He'll do what's best for *Mino Raiola*


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## Orikoru (Nov 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Totally agree with this. When Paul Lambert left us to go to Norwich he got dogs abuse from some sections of our fans. But to me he was leaving to go to a better job with a bigger club and more money. I'm surprised it took him longer than 5 seconds to decide.
		
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Yeah, I think there are some rules to abide by, like perhaps not joining your team's biggest rivals. But generally I think it's silly that footballers feel like they can't admit that they're going to bigger club for more money - why is it frowned upon?? Then they have to come out with some bollocks like "I supported them as a boy" (no you didn't) or "I feel the club matches my ambitions" (yeah they matched it with enough £ signs you mean). I'd love to see just one interview after a transfer where they player just fronted up and said "They practically doubled my money, it was a no-brainer".


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 11, 2021)

Piece said:



			Exactly my point...turn him into a consistent performer. There's a spot at international level with Maguire out of form and Stones in & out of the City team.
		
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I think he’s a good CB .
But he seems to lose concentration at times and that leads to mistakes imo.
He has all the attributes to be a quality CB.

Good luck to Stevie.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 11, 2021)

Kaz said:



			He was always likely to leave in the near future for a lower level EPL club. Disappointed it's happened mid-season but he pulled off a minor miracle winning the league last year and with all the significance attached to that I think most will think well of him. But, yeah, it's a fair point memories might prove short if it goes downhill quickly this season.
		
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The reality is that Gerrard will have forgotten about Rangers already. Whether Rangers fans resent him or not is irrelevant, Glasgow is gone in his head. I speak as an Everton fan who is under no illusion that Carlo Ancelotti is worrying about what we think of him. Life moves quickly in football.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 11, 2021)

Kaz said:



			He was always likely to leave in the near future for a lower level EPL club. Disappointed it's happened mid-season but he pulled off a minor miracle winning the league last year and with all the significance attached to that I think most will think well of him. But, yeah, it's a fair point memories might prove short if it goes downhill quickly this season.
		
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Just having a quick glance over a Rangers fans forum. Signs are a lot have quickly turned to loathe him, Snake is used quite frequently, and how he quietly slipped away without even a word to the club captain. Well, it was always a risk leaving, that will pay off if he is a success at Villa. If it doesn't, good luck to him, he'll need it.

I think he was on £210,000 a month at Rangers, which is about £48,500 a week. Not sure what Villa are paying him, I think Dean Smith was on £31,250 a week. Obviously, I'm assuming a huge increase in salary for Gerrard


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## Orikoru (Nov 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Just having a quick glance over a Rangers fans forum. Signs are a lot have quickly turned to loathe him, Snake is used quite frequently, and how he quietly slipped away without even a word to the club captain. Well, it was always a risk leaving, that will pay off if he is a success at Villa. If it doesn't, good luck to him, he'll need it.

I think he was on £210,000 a month at Rangers, which is about £48,500 a week. Not sure what Villa are paying him, I think Dean Smith was on £31,250 a week. Obviously, I'm assuming a huge increase in salary for Gerrard
		
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Football is a strange career, where you reach your late 30s and suddenly your earning potential halves. Or worse.


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## Billysboots (Nov 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

From the BBC Gossip page:

Paul Pogba wants to renew his contract with Manchester United but the 28-year-old France midfielder is demanding he overtakes Cristiano Ronaldo to become the Premier League's highest-paid player. (L'Equipe, via Metro)
		
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I’ve always been a big believer in having to earn ones money. He doesn’t. Get rid.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2021)

I must be really getting old, but found myself feeling sorry for Gerrard, Villa and Lpool and in that order.

I understand Lpool fans, and maybe the Club, would love to have Gerrard as their manager one day and being successful, but all this talk about his contract coinciding with Klopps is both unfair and disrespectful to him and Villa.

Just let him be Villa manager and his success or failure will take him to his next step.

The pressure we and the media put on managers is ridiculous, yes, I know the financial rewards are fantastic, but he’s not even 24hrs in to the job and they have him leaving.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve always been a big believer in having to earn ones money. He doesn’t. Get rid.
		
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There would be no players in the PL


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## Swango1980 (Nov 11, 2021)

Looks like Lampard to Norwich now


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Looks like Lampard to Norwich now
		
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That's a slightly strange one for me. Not sure what he offers that Farke didn't. Norwich look like they will be relegated this season and Farke has previously shown that he can get them promoted out of the Championship. Norwich seem to be one of those teams that are too good for the Championship but not good enough (or not willing to spend the amount of money required to be good enough) for the Premier League. The very definition of a yoyo team.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2021)

Wouldn’t mind seeing Villa go down now 😬😂


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## pauljames87 (Nov 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Looks like Lampard to Norwich now
		
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But can you fit them both in the same relegation battle?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a slightly strange one for me. Not sure what he offers that Farke didn't. Norwich look like they will be relegated this season and Farke has previously shown that he can get them promoted out of the Championship. Norwich seem to be one of those teams that are too good for the Championship but not good enough (or not willing to spend the amount of money required to be good enough) for the Premier League. The very definition of a yoyo team.
		
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A really head scratching appointment and surprised Lampard has taken it tbh


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## pendodave (Nov 11, 2021)

Have to say, I'm a little bemused as to why clubs think name players with very little experience will make good prem managers. 
For every pep, there's a whole list of failures. 
Fergie, Wenger, klopp, Tushell(sp), Moyes😏 were all competent players who served a long apprenticeship as a manager/coach before stepping up to the highest level.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 11, 2021)

Just watching the build up to the England U21's game tonight. They had a representative of all three of the armed forces who each laid a wreath on the pitch and then stood while the Last Post was played. The air force and navy representatives saluted during the Last Post while the army representative stood to attention without saluting. Can any of our military or former military people explain why this is the case?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just watching the build up to the England U21's game tonight. They had a representative of all three of the armed forces who each laid a wreath on the pitch and then stood while the Last Post was played. The air force and navy representatives saluted during the Last Post while the army representative stood to attention without saluting. Can any of our military or former military people explain why this is the case?
		
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Normally the only people to salute during last post are officers - so I’m guessing the Army lad was Non commissioned


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## Dando (Nov 11, 2021)




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## ColchesterFC (Nov 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Normally the only people to salute during last post are officers - so I’m guessing the Army lad was Non commissioned
		
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Thanks. I assumed that there would be a reason but had no idea what it might be.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I must be really getting old, but found myself feeling sorry for Gerrard, Villa and Lpool and in that order.

I understand Lpool fans, and maybe the Club, would love to have Gerrard as their manager one day and being successful, but all this talk about his contract coinciding with Klopps is both unfair and disrespectful to him and Villa.

Just let him be Villa manager and his success or failure will take him to his next step.

The pressure we and the media put on managers is ridiculous, yes, I know the financial rewards are fantastic, but he’s not even 24hrs in to the job and they have him leaving.
		
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I think the general feeling from match going Liverpool fans is they want Gerrard to earn the right to become Liverpool manager, just because he was a fantastic player and servant to the football club that doesnt mean he deserves the top job.

Unfortunately the SM fam are lapping it up, they're usually the 1st  ones  calling for mangers/players to go when the going gets tough. 

Rightly or wrongly, Rangers should've expected this day imo. As soon as a well run PL club came in for him he was always going unfortunately. 

I hope Villa stop up, a proper great club with a rich european pedigree.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I think the general feeling from match going Liverpool fans is they want Gerrard to earn the right to become Liverpool manager, just because he was a fantastic player and servant to the football club that doesnt mean he deserves the top job.

Unfortunately the SM fam are lapping it up, they're usually the 1st  ones  calling for mangers/players to go when the going gets tough.

Rightly or wrongly, Rangers should've expected this day imo. As soon as a well run PL club came in for him he was always going unfortunately.

I hope Villa stop up, a proper great club with a rich european pedigree.
		
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That’s sums it up 

Gerrard wouldn’t be offered the job at Liverpool until he proved himself and going to Villa gives him that chance and he was always going to take a decent job in the Prem is offered 

Seemed to do well at Rangers and Villa seem to be a club that’s building back up.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s sums it up

Gerrard wouldn’t be offered the job at Liverpool until he proved himself and going to Villa gives him that chance and he was always going to take a decent job in the Prem is offered

Seemed to do well at Rangers and Villa seem to be a club that’s building back up.
		
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Even then his next job shouldn't automatically be Liverpool. He needs top european experience for me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Even then his next job shouldn't automatically be Liverpool. He needs top european experience for me.
		
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If Klopp does leave when his contract finishes then I suspect Gerrard won’t have had that level of experience. I suspect the club won’t be swayed by sentiment when it comes to Klopps replacement


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I think the general feeling from match going Liverpool fans is they want Gerrard to earn the right to become Liverpool manager, just because he was a fantastic player and servant to the football club that doesnt mean he deserves the top job.

Unfortunately the SM fam are lapping it up, they're usually the 1st  ones  calling for mangers/players to go when the going gets tough.

Rightly or wrongly, Rangers should've expected this day imo. As soon as a well run PL club came in for him he was always going unfortunately.

I hope Villa stop up, a proper great club with a rich european pedigree.
		
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Its not just the SM fam though Stu, it was mentioned on Sky Sports News and on some other media outlets.

No sympathy for Rangers or any Club if the manager decides to leave, we all know Clubs have very little loyalty the other way.

He’s English, so in the long run 15-20yrs he may have the experience or pedigree for the England job, other Countries have seen top players with their National side have success and we don’t seem to have very many quality English managers coming through, so doing a good job at Villa isn’t a bad thing.

But as I said I thought it was disrespectful to him and Villa to even mention Klopp or Lpool.


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## Foxholer (Nov 11, 2021)

A question that should be answered honestly by those who 'expect' Gerrard to be a future, and likely long-term, Liverpool Manager!
            How many top ex-players of a 'big club' have actually successfully managed their 'alma mater' club?

The current woes of ODS at Man U suggest the transition back to that completely different role is not particularly smooth! Lampard's experience at Chelsea wasn't great either!
Even Sir Alex never managed any of his (at least as far as I know), and was he a 'club great' player?. Klopp certainly seemed to have a pretty successful transition, but doesn't seem to have been a 'club great'! Scott Parker has potential (for West Ham) but is still 'learning the trade' at 'lower tier' clubs.

I'm not certain Gerrard will ever be a good enough Manager of a top 4-6 Premier League team, but a period at the likes of Aston Villa will certainly provide some beneficial experience!


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a slightly strange one for me. *Not sure what he offers that Farke didn't.* Norwich look like they will be relegated this season and Farke has previously shown that he can get them promoted out of the Championship. Norwich seem to be one of those teams that are too good for the Championship but not good enough (or not willing to spend the amount of money required to be good enough) for the Premier League. The very definition of a yoyo team.
		
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Game time for Billy Gilmour?


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2021)

Wonder when the last time was that Stu posted something and didn’t get a “like” from Phil🤔

Stu will you please just take him to Anfield for the first time 😂


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 11, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			A question that should be answered honestly by those who 'expect' Gerrard to be a future, and likely long-term, Liverpool Manager!
            How many top ex-players of a 'big club' have actually successfully managed their 'alma mater' club?

The current woes of ODS at Man U suggest the transition back to that completely different role is not particularly smooth! *Lampard's experience at Chelsea wasn't great either!*
Even Sir Alex never managed any of his (at least as far as I know), and was he a 'club great' player?. Klopp certainly seemed to have a pretty successful transition, but doesn't seem to have been a 'club great'! Scott Parker has potential (for West Ham) but is still 'learning the trade' at 'lower tier' clubs.

I'm not certain Gerrard will ever be a good enough Manager of a top 4-6 Premier League team, but a period at the likes of Aston Villa will certainly provide some beneficial experience!
		
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That had nothing to do with the fact that it was his old club, and everything to do with the fact that he wasn't ready for the job.  As much as every Chelsea fan that I know wanted him to succeed, our heads never believed that he was going to succeed; hoped, but never believed.  Add a transfer ban (which is probably why he was offered the job; who else would take it, who else knew the youth he'd have to work with?), and he was always going to struggle, but he'd have struggled at any Premier League club.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Its not just the SM fam though Stu, it was mentioned on Sky Sports News and on some other media outlets.

No sympathy for Rangers or any Club if the manager decides to leave, we all know Clubs have very little loyalty the other way.

He’s English, so in the long run 15-20yrs he may have the experience or pedigree for the England job, other Countries have seen top players with their National side have success and we don’t seem to have very many quality English managers coming through, so doing a good job at Villa isn’t a bad thing.

*But as I said I thought it was disrespectful to him and Villa to even mention Klopp or Lpool.*

Click to expand...

Sky and the written media want Gerrard/Lampard etc in the top jobs. They’ll all be creaming themselves as its big news daily. With all the clicks, searches etc.

I agree, but are you surprised knowing how the British media work?


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## 4LEX (Nov 11, 2021)

I don't think people realise how good Villa's squad is or how ambitious the owners are. They'll be a genuine threat to 4th if Gerrard does as well I expect him to.

And Rangers fans have to accept he stopped Cletic winning 10 in a row, a few idiots on Facebook burning his shirt or punching stuff won't change that. He's left the club in a much better state than he found it.


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## Beezerk (Nov 11, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I don't think people realise how good Villa's squad is or how ambitious the owners are. They'll be a genuine threat to 4th if Gerrard does as well I expect him to.
		
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Wow, that's a hell of a statement. And here's me thinking Villa are pretty garbage 😅


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## hairball_89 (Nov 11, 2021)

I'm unsure how I feel about Stevie and the big job at Anfield. Heart says it's where he belongs. 

He was my absolute hero when I was growing up (after the shock of Michael Owen leaving wore off) but I don't want to see him brought to Anfield unless he has the best CV for the job. It's clear as day the most recent examples of this (OGS, lampard, Parker etc) didn't have the CV and skills to back up the appointment. 

However, he knows above anyone else, I'm sure, that if he *doesn't* make the grade at Villa the Liverpool job definitely isn't coming. Anytime soon at least. Personally, right now I'd prefer Ljinders (Klopp's no2) to take over and Gerrard to earn the job after. But 2 1/2 years is a long time in football, so who knows what's going to happen!


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## 4LEX (Nov 11, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Wow, that's a hell of a statement. And here's me thinking Villa are pretty garbage 😅
		
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Villa have a really good side, or at least the spine of one. Smith was a Championship level manager who got found out. They were offering £60m for Smith-Rowe in the summer. They'll back Gerrard big time. Not saying they'll get 4th this season but in future years they'll be up there. Another great addition to the league


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## Foxholer (Nov 12, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			That had nothing to do with the fact that it was his old club, and everything to do with the fact that he wasn't ready for the job.  As much as every Chelsea fan that I know wanted him to succeed, our heads never believed that he was going to succeed; hoped, but never believed.  Add a transfer ban (which is probably why he was offered the job; who else would take it, who else knew the youth he'd have to work with?), and he was always going to struggle, but he'd have struggled at any Premier League club.
		
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That's as may be, but my comment still stands!
The question that should have been asked was 'Why was he offered it/Why did he accept it?' Your final comment seems to confirm my view.
Btw...I agree with your summation (and believe you do with mine - albeit with a bit of 'fan invoked forgiveness' of both sides) ...He wasn't ready for that (huge) task and should never have considered it/been considered for it - which is a good part of the point I was making in the first place!


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## Hogieefc (Nov 12, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			A question that should be answered honestly by those who 'expect' Gerrard to be a future, and likely long-term, Liverpool Manager!
            How many top ex-players of a 'big club' have actually successfully managed their 'alma mater' club?

The current woes of ODS at Man U suggest the transition back to that completely different role is not particularly smooth! Lampard's experience at Chelsea wasn't great either!
Even Sir Alex never managed any of his (at least as far as I know), and was he a 'club great' player?. Klopp certainly seemed to have a pretty successful transition, but doesn't seem to have been a 'club great'! Scott Parker has potential (for West Ham) but is still 'learning the trade' at 'lower tier' clubs.

I'm not certain Gerrard will ever be a good enough Manager of a top 4-6 Premier League team, but a period at the likes of Aston Villa will certainly provide some beneficial experience!
		
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Howard Kendall did a half decent job at Everton


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## Dando (Nov 12, 2021)

So Lampard managed Chelsea and now he's going to manage Norwich.

Gerrard managed Rangers and now he's managing Aston Villa.

Meanwhile Scholes is managing the length of his daughters toenails.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 12, 2021)

Dando said:



			So Lampard managed Chelsea and now he's going to manage Norwich.

Gerrard managed Rangers and now he's managing Aston Villa.

Meanwhile Scholes is managing the length of his daughters toenails.
		
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Not sure what this means. I guess we could continue it my saying Carragher is managing to control his spitting habits to when there are no cameras about  .


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## Swango1980 (Nov 12, 2021)

Would I be correct in thinking there3 is quite a lot of excitement amongst Liverpool fans about the Gerrard situation? It seems that way from what I read. I guess, in the ideal world for Liverpool is that Gerrard takes over in 2024, and Liverpool win many Premier League titles and Champions League trophies. However, perfect rarely happens, and when you are at the top, probability wise the most likely direction is downwards.

As a Man Utd fan, as soon as Klopp leaves all the better, to me he is their single biggest asset. The way some discussions are going, there seems to almost be an expectation that Gerrard will be able to build on what Klopp has done. However, if it was me I think I'd be hoping and praying we could beg Klopp to stay for as long as possible. I know he'll have to go one day, but I'd want him at the club for as long as possible. Perhaps, unless, he becomes a Wenger and things become very stale for a few years, but he seems a long way from that.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



*Would I be correct in thinking there3 is quite a lot of excitement amongst Liverpool fans about the Gerrard situation*? It seems that way from what I read. I guess, in the ideal world for Liverpool is that Gerrard takes over in 2024, and Liverpool win many Premier League titles and Champions League trophies. However, perfect rarely happens, and when you are at the top, probability wise the most likely direction is downwards.

As a Man Utd fan, as soon as Klopp leaves all the better, to me he is their single biggest asset. The way some discussions are going, there seems to almost be an expectation that Gerrard will be able to build on what Klopp has done. However, if it was me I think I'd be hoping and praying we could beg Klopp to stay for as long as possible. I know he'll have to go one day, but I'd want him at the club for as long as possible. Perhaps, unless, he becomes a Wenger and things become very stale for a few years, but he seems a long way from that.
		
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No. 

I’m certain whilst most liverpool fans would like Gerrard to do well for him personally, Gerrard needs to prove he can manage at the top level and compete in top European competition.

Just because he’s done well at Rangers and has now got the Villa job, that can’t be enough for him to take over from Klopp.

We’ve been there and done it, Souness as an example and even your situation now. There’s no room for sentiment in top level professional sport.

Klopps successor needs to have the right credentials.


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			No. 

I’m certain whilst most liverpool fans would like Gerrard to do well for him personally, Gerrard needs to prove he can manage at the top level and compete in top European competition.

Just because he’s done well at Rangers and has now got the Villa job, that can’t be enough for him to take over from Klopp.

We’ve been there and done it, Souness as an example and even your situation now. There’s no room for sentiment in top level professional sport.

Klopps successor needs to have the right credentials.
		
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having been a premier league midfielder in the last 10-20 years seems to be the main requirement these days, less so strikers 

Viera, Arteta, Gerrard, Lampard now, whos next?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			having been a premier league midfielder in the last 10-20 years seems to be the main requirement these days, less so strikers 

Viera, Arteta, Gerrard, Lampard now, whos next?
		
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Kleberson? 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Kleberson? 😂😂😂
		
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was hoping for Gazza at the toon lol


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 12, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			That's as may be, but my comment still stands!
The question that should have been asked was '*Why was he offered it/Why did he accept it?' *Your final comment seems to confirm my view.
Btw...I agree with your summation (and believe you do with mine - albeit with a bit of 'fan invoked forgiveness' of both sides) ...He wasn't ready for that (huge) task and should never have considered it/been considered for it - which is a good part of the point I was making in the first place!
		
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He was offered it because no other top name manager would take it with a transfer ban in place.

He took it because he wanted to manage Chelsea at some point & Roman Abramovich isn't the sort of man you turn down & expect a second invitation from.

And no, I don't think my comment confirms your view; your view appears to be that players never do well at their old club, presumably because it's their old club.  My view is that Lampard, sadly, wasn't yet ready for the job at any Premiership club, let alone his old club.


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## Piece (Nov 12, 2021)

Nathan Patterson looks a tidy right back. Does he fancy a stint in a better league? 😉

Without giving away a pen though  🤣


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2021)

good to see Gareth pushing the boat out again tonight lol, 7 defense minded players, 2 of the most out of form players in the prem league and Foden against the mighty Albania


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			good to see Gareth pushing the boat out again tonight lol, 7 defense minded players, 2 of the most out of form players in the prem league and Foden against the mighty Albania
		
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How can he pick Maguire based on his form alone never mind ability?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			good to see Gareth pushing the boat out again tonight lol, 7 defense minded players, 2 of the most out of form players in the prem league and Foden against the mighty Albania
		
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😂

But it is against one of the biggest nations in World football


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Looking forward to England qualifying for the WC this week, regardless of form I’d expect the following XI to start against Albania, barring any late injuries:

Pickford

Walker
Stones
Maquire
Chillwell

Rice
Phillips
Foden
Grealish

Kane
Sterling

Wouldn’t be my first XI, but I don’t expect Southgate to make any changes.
		
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England: 
Pickford

Walker
Stones
Maguire
Chilwell

James
Phillips
Henderson
Foden

Sterling
Kane

not a bad guess! 

Henderson for Rice(injury) and James for Grealish.

Not too sure why people are surprised by his choices.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			How can he pick Maguire based on his form alone never mind ability?
		
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Its almost like you care Stu!


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 12, 2021)

If you're playing three at the back to allow the full backs to get forward how on earth is TAA not in the team? He's our best attacking full back and probably also our best crosser of a ball. Or maybe that's just a bit too adventurous for Southgate's negative approach.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			England:
Pickford

Walker
Stones
Maguire
Chilwell

James
Phillips
Henderson
Foden

Sterling
Kane

not a bad guess! 

Henderson for Rice(injury) and James for Grealish.

_*Not too sure why people are surprised by his choices*_.
		
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Forgive if i'm wrong but didnt the same manager say players will only be picked on form and if their club form dips then they'll be omitted from the squad like TAA was?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Its almost like you care Stu! 

Click to expand...

If i dont care i cant have an opinion?

😉


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			If i dont care i cant have an opinion?

😉
		
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You can have opinions, just can’t share your opinions using days of the week.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Forgive if i'm wrong but didnt the same manager say players will only be picked on form and if their club form dips then they'll be omitted from the squad like TAA was?
		
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If that was true Kane wouldn’t be within a mile of the squad. Also there would be a couple more West Ham players Involved, maybe Bowen or Johnson?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Forgive if i'm wrong but didnt the same manager say players will only be picked on form and if their club form dips then they'll be omitted from the squad like TAA was?
		
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And people believe him😂😂 
He has his favourites and unless injured he won’t drop them.


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			If that was true Kane wouldn’t be within a mile of the squad. Also there would be a couple more West Ham players Involved, maybe Bowen or Johnson?
		
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Bowen maybe but bit soon for Johnson surely? barely played 20 games for West Ham has he when James and TAA are in great form

Gallagher at Palace wouldve been worth a look albeit maybe too soon for him (and probably ESR) and be nice to see us play someone else up top thats for sure


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## Papas1982 (Nov 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you're playing three at the back to allow the full backs to get forward how on earth is TAA not in the team? He's our best attacking full back and probably also our best crosser of a ball. Or maybe that's just a bit too adventurous for Southgate's negative approach.
		
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Whilst I do t rate Southgate at all. 

R James plays in this formation and has made a cracking start to the season. He's place is one that whilst I might not agree with, it's certainly not the worst decision.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 12, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			If that was true Kane wouldn’t be within a mile of the squad. Also there would be a couple more West Ham players Involved, maybe Bowen or Johnson?
		
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Johnson won't get near England 

Taa and James will keep him out 

Bowen has a chance


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2021)

If Sterling is going to dive he should definitely practice first.
Very poor attempt.


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			How can he pick Maguire based on his form alone never mind ability?
		
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That's how.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2021)

Get in Harry Maquire😂😂
Picked on his goalscoring ability @Stuart_C


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2021)

Slime said:



View attachment 39494


That's how. 

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does scoring an unmarked header mean hes in better defensive form now then lol

i guess southgate will be a genius when we beat Albania too


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## pauljames87 (Nov 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			does scoring an unmarked header mean hes in better defensive form now then lol

i guess southgate will be a genius when we beat Albania too
		
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Works for stones


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## Foxholer (Nov 12, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			He was offered it because no other top name manager would take it with a transfer ban in place.

He took it because he wanted to manage Chelsea at some point & Roman Abramovich isn't the sort of man you turn down & expect a second invitation from.

And no, I don't think my comment confirms your view; your view appears to be that players never do well at their old club, presumably because it's their old club.  My view is that Lampard, sadly, wasn't yet ready for the job at any Premiership club, let alone his old club.
		
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We'll have to agree to disagree then! Save that Lampard wasn't ready to manage Chelsea!
Edit:
He actually seemed, at least to me, to do better, in his 1st year - when under the imposed  restriction, so nearer simply a 'Captain's role - than when he was allowed to 'fully' manage the side!


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Get in Harry Maquire😂😂
Picked on his goalscoring ability @Stuart_C

Click to expand...

It's certainly not on his defending ability judging by him letting that Albanian fella run straight across him for a free run in on goal. Pickford saved his ass.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2021)

In Gareth we trust.😇


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## arnieboy (Nov 12, 2021)

Harry's back, just need him to do the same for Spurs.


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			does scoring an unmarked header mean hes in better defensive form now then lol

i guess southgate will be a genius when we beat Albania too
		
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He couldn't score unless he was in the right place at the right time.


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's certainly not on his defending ability judging by him letting that Albanian fella run straight across him for a free run in on goal. Pickford saved his ass.
		
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No, Pickford saved Walker's ass.


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2021)

Swiss giving it a right go against the Italians, could be an upset on the cards


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2021)

Always rated that Henderson fella.😬


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2021)

Slime said:



			No, Pickford saved Walker's ass.
		
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Watch it again.

Maguire was ball watching whilst the Albanian fella just strolled past him.


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2021)

Class goal from Henderson, really good.


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Watch it again.

Maguire was ball watching whilst the Albanian fella just strolled past him.
		
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Maguire was ball watching whilst England were in possession.
Nobody expected Walker to put a fabulous ball through to their attacker.


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## BrianM (Nov 12, 2021)

Albania are a shambles, could be a cricket score here 😂😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2021)

That Kane fella’s got potential.


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2021)

how do i end up watching the game with Anthony Taylor reffing and Atwell on the VAR sigh


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 12, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Albania are a shambles, could be a cricket score here 😂😂
		
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Their defence is straight from a pub team 🍻😳


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## AmandaJR (Nov 12, 2021)

Why is their kepper flapping at everything with his right hand...weird!

Anyhoo. Can't stand Henderson but the best 25 minutes I've seen from him. Sterling shows some excellent stuff and then stuffs it up so often and so frustrating...decision making too often too poor when it counts. Shame.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2021)

Slime said:



			Maguire was ball watching whilst England were in possession.
Nobody expected Walker to put a fabulous ball through to their attacker.
		
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You're agreeing maguire was ballwatching 😉

I thought he was there to defend 🤷


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			You're agreeing maguire was ballwatching 😉

I thought he was there to defend 🤷
		
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He was probably only expecting to have to defend against Albania, not his own team.


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## Orikoru (Nov 12, 2021)

I don't massively rate Maguire but trying to blame him on that Walker brainfart is really clutching. 😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2021)

What a finish!


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## IanM (Nov 12, 2021)

I guess some have the need to moan regardless of outcome.

They must teach it in schools now!


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## Orikoru (Nov 12, 2021)

Usually hate the international break but that incredible hat trick could get Kane right back on form again now. Ideal.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 12, 2021)

During the national anthem I said to my older boy that if Southgate was picking players on form there's no way McGuire or Kane should be anywhere near the starting line up tonight. 

There is a small chance that I might've been wrong about that.


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## Golfmmad (Nov 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			During the national anthem I said to my older boy that if Southgate was picking players on form there's no way McGuire or Kane should be anywhere near the starting line up tonight. 

There is a small chance that I might've been wrong about that.
		
Click to expand...

Form is temporary, class is permanent! 👍


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## IainP (Nov 12, 2021)

Must be the blue kit then 🤪🤨🤷‍♂️


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## JamesR (Nov 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			During the national anthem I said to my older boy that if Southgate was picking players on form there's no way McGuire or Kane should be anywhere near the starting line up tonight.

There is a small chance that I might've been wrong about that.
		
Click to expand...

No you were correct. 
Imagine what the score could have been with a decent striker 🤔


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## IanM (Nov 12, 2021)

JamesR said:



			No you were correct.
Imagine what the score could have been with a decent striker 🤔
		
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I can and it's 5 🤣

Roy Keane in the studio?  Why?


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 12, 2021)

IanM said:



			I can and it's 5 🤣

*Roy Keane in the studio?  Why?*

Click to expand...

For an accurate assessment of Meathead, and he's not impressed.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 12, 2021)

Slime said:



			He was probably only expecting to have to defend against Albania, not his own team.
		
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I think you'll find expecting the unexpected is what separates the great from the adequate.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 12, 2021)

Good points made by the pundits about Kane not dropping too deep and being in the box a lot more than recent games.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 12, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I think you'll find expecting the unexpected is what separates the great from the adequate. 

Click to expand...

And anyone defending in a team with Walker in it should always expect the unexpected. Or the catastrophic. Or a total brain fart.


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## Orikoru (Nov 12, 2021)

IanM said:



			Roy Keane in the studio?  Why?
		
Click to expand...

Because he's the best!


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## Orikoru (Nov 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Good points made by the pundits about Kane not dropping too deep and being in the box a lot more than recent games.
		
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In fairness to Kane, he ends up dropping too deep when his teammates can't get him the ball. Same as Rooney used to - he gets fed up and goes looking for it. When the team is actually functioning properly he doesn't need to do it half as much. He will always drop a little bit because that's his game, he wants to create as well and that's why you need a player like Sterling, or Son, who runs beyond the striker frequently.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Because he's the best!
		
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At what?


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## Fade and Die (Nov 12, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Usually hate the international break but that incredible hat trick could get Kane right back on form again now. Ideal.
		
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Nah he’s a flat track bully.


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## Billysboots (Nov 12, 2021)

How long before England field an entire starting XI of players with their socks round their ankles? 🙄


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			How long before England field an entire starting XI of players with their socks round their ankles? 🙄
		
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How long before England realise that they are still allowed to score goals.


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## IanM (Nov 12, 2021)

Game was over an hour ago


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2021)

1-1 with a minute to go, over to Atwell to decide the game lol


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2021)

Jorginho lol


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2021)

fundy said:



			Jorginho lol
		
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Ssshhh, we're watching the England game.


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2021)

Slime said:



			Ssshhh, we're watching the England game.
		
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sorry forgot this is only the Liverpool/Man U and England thread lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			At what?
		
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Because of stuff like this 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459263996142497800


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2021)

Flat 2nd half, some what expected after a great 1st half.

Good to see Smith-Rowe getting his debut, substitutions were sensible but no real impact on the game.

Maquire looks like he’s lacking confidence for me, which I hope he gets over.

My MoM was Henderson.

Roll on Qatar.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 12, 2021)

Good win for Northern Ireland


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## Jensen (Nov 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			That Kane fella’s got potential.

Click to expand...

He’ll never make it in the premier league


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 13, 2021)

Jensen said:



			He’ll never make it in the premier league
		
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It was nice to see him in the penalty area rather than on the halfway line.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It was nice to see him in the penalty area rather than on the halfway line.
		
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I think his whole performance and demeanour show how much he hates being at Spurs!


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 13, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			I think his whole performance and demeanour show how much he hates being at Spurs!
		
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Got to start getting back to his best form. The transfer window opens in 7 weeks and he'll need to be back firing to get his transfer to Man City.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 15, 2021)

Yes it’s only San Marino, but good to see the changes tonight.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes it’s only San Marino, but good to see the changes tonight.
		
Click to expand...

However still Kane, we know exactly what he brings and never try another striker to give them a chance to show what they could do


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			However still Kane, we know exactly what he brings and never try another striker to give them a chance to show what they could do
		
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Or let Kane get a few goals and bring him off after 45 minutes, there’s no one in that squad as good as him.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Or let Kane get a few goals and bring him off after 45 minutes, there’s no one in that squad as good as him.
		
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That's true, I'd like to see Abraham given a chance tho


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## BiMGuy (Nov 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because of stuff like this


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459263996142497800

Click to expand...

Saying what everyone else was thinking. Next level insight right there.

Personally I think he adds very little to the conversation other than being slightly grumpy and argumentative.

Come to think of it. I can see why he’s so well liked on here 😉😂


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## IanM (Nov 15, 2021)

Please ref. No pen, too embarrassing 😳


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## srixon 1 (Nov 15, 2021)

IanM said:



			Please ref. No pen, too embarrassing 😳
		
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San Marino were ripped off with that penalty decision.


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## IanM (Nov 15, 2021)

srixon 1 said:



			San Marino were ripped off with that penalty decision.
		
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Letter of the law its a pen.  

But, Pointless in context of the game.   Decision took ages too.


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## Slime (Nov 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			However still Kane, we know exactly what he brings and never try another striker to give them a chance to show what they could do
		
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We've got Maguire, we can always rely on him.


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## srixon 1 (Nov 15, 2021)

IanM said:



			Letter of the law its a pen. 

But, Pointless in context of the game.   Decision took ages too.
		
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Booked him also


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## Piece (Nov 15, 2021)

I have my boots ready for the second half Gareth?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 15, 2021)

IanM said:



			Letter of the law its a pen. 

But, Pointless in context of the game.   Decision took ages too.
		
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Got to give it, if it is letter of the law. Especially in this day and age of football betting. Somebody could lose a lot of money if the ref decided to use empathy instead of applying the law, as is his job


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 15, 2021)

How bad do you think that San Marino are in Football League terms? They'd definitely struggle in the Championship and I'm not even convinced they're good enough for League 1. This game is achieving nothing and is why I think that teams like San Marino shouldn't be playing in World Cup qualifying. There should be a second tier competition for the weaker teams with the opportunity to get promoted to the tier above. Matches like this are pointless and a complete waste of everyone's time.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			How bad do you think that San Marino are in Football League terms? They'd definitely struggle in the Championship and I'm not even convinced they're good enough for League 1. This game is achieving nothing and is why I think that teams like San Marino shouldn't be playing in World Cup qualifying. There should be a second tier competition for the weaker teams with the opportunity to get promoted to the tier above. Matches like this are pointless and a complete waste of everyone's time.
		
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As an independent Nation they have every right to be included, just think of the financial gains they receive playing the biggest European Nations, it would be wrong imo to deny them the opportunity and treat them as 2nd class.


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## Piece (Nov 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			How bad do you think that San Marino are in Football League terms? They'd definitely struggle in the Championship and I'm not even convinced they're good enough for League 1. This game is achieving nothing and is why I think that teams like San Marino shouldn't be playing in World Cup qualifying. There should be a second tier competition for the weaker teams with the opportunity to get promoted to the tier above. Matches like this are pointless and a complete waste of everyone's time.
		
Click to expand...

They are not even National League level.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			How bad do you think that San Marino are in Football League terms? They'd definitely struggle in the Championship and I'm not even convinced they're good enough for League 1. This game is achieving nothing and is why I think that teams like San Marino shouldn't be playing in World Cup qualifying. There should be a second tier competition for the weaker teams with the opportunity to get promoted to the tier above. Matches like this are pointless and a complete waste of everyone's time.
		
Click to expand...

Is this not just the same discussion that is regurgitated each time England play a team like San Marino, Liechtenstein or Gibraltar?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2021)

This Kane fella is pretty good when he plays up front.
The refs a bit meh , books him for a finger tip but let a few wild ones just go.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 15, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Got to give it, if it is letter of the law. *Especially in this day and age of football betting. Somebody could lose a lot of money if the ref decided to use empathy instead of applying the law*, as is his job
		
Click to expand...


Football betting shouldnt even come anywhere near his thinking/justifying giving the correct decision. 

Although i see a few "blue" MP's were given freebies aswell as a wage for working for/with betting firms. That's not a bad thing one may say, you're entirled to do more than one job i hear from another. 

Then, just by coincidence i may add, those same people argued against change's to the gambling legislation........🤔🤔 and people swear blind they're not corrupt😄


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			As an independent Nation they have every right to be included, just think of the financial gains they receive playing the biggest European Nations, it would be wrong imo to deny them the opportunity and* treat them as 2nd class.*

Click to expand...

But they clearly ARE second class (at best). They're not good enough to be able to compete. In 9 and a half games they've scored one goal and conceded 41. They're not gaining anything from playing in this match apart from financially. They'd be far better off in a competition with Kosovo, Gibraltar, Lichtenstein etc where at least the matches would be competitive.


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## Slime (Nov 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			How bad do you think that San Marino are in Football League terms? They'd definitely struggle in the Championship and I'm not even convinced they're good enough for League 1. *This game is achieving nothing* and is why I think that teams like San Marino shouldn't be playing in World Cup qualifying. There should be a second tier competition for the weaker teams with the opportunity to get promoted to the tier above. *Matches like this are pointless and a complete waste of everyone's time.*

Click to expand...

Run that past Harry Kane, he just may disagree with you.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			But they clearly ARE second class (at best). They're not good enough to be able to compete. *In 9 and a half games they've scored one goal and conceded 41.* They're not gaining anything from playing in this match apart from financially. They'd be far better off in a competition with Kosovo, Gibraltar, Lichtenstein etc where at least the matches would be competitive.
		
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Not far from Yerniteds recent run 🤭🤭


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## Swango1980 (Nov 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			But they clearly ARE second class (at best). They're not good enough to be able to compete. In 9 and a half games they've scored one goal and conceded 41. They're not gaining anything from playing in this match apart from financially. They'd be far better off in a competition with Kosovo, Gibraltar, Lichtenstein etc where at least the matches would be competitive.
		
Click to expand...

Something like a Nations League, perhaps?


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## Slime (Nov 15, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Not far from Yerniteds recent run 🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

Run that past Harry Kane, he just may disagree with you.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 15, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Football betting shouldnt even come anywhere near his thinking/justifying giving the correct decision.

Although i see a few "blue" MP's were given freebies aswell as a wage for working for/with betting firms. That's not a bad thing one may say, you're entirled to do more than one job i hear from another.

Then, just by coincidence i may add, those same people argued against change's to the gambling legislation........🤔🤔 and people swear blind they're not corrupt😄
		
Click to expand...

That was just an example of where his decision could have a knock on effect. The point being, he has a job to apply the law. I doubt they are told to ignore certain rules if the game is already too one sided? 

The yellow card was strange though, but maybe that is letter of the law as well, handball in box? Don't like that if it is the case, not if it was a complete accident.


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## fundy (Nov 15, 2021)

lol 3 subs and Kane still out there for the 2nd half


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			But they clearly ARE second class (at best). They're not good enough to be able to compete. In 9 and a half games they've scored one goal and conceded 41. They're not gaining anything from playing in this match apart from financially. They'd be far better off in a competition with Kosovo, Gibraltar, Lichtenstein etc where at least the matches would be competitive.
		
Click to expand...

So should we bin the League 1 & 2 Clubs from Cups which PL Teams enter and non-league Clubs from the FA Cup?

They may never get there, but they can dream and what right does anyone else have to deny them that.

They can play the Countries you list anytime, but how would they improve?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol 3 subs and Kane still out there for the 2nd half
		
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With 2 keepers and 3 defenders still on the bench, he may just get 90 minutes.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 15, 2021)

Slime said:



			Run that past Harry Kane, he just may disagree with you. 

Click to expand...

Slimey dear boy, youve lost me🤷


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			So should we bin the League 1 & 2 Clubs from Cups which PL Teams enter and non-league Clubs from the FA Cup?

They may never get there, but they can dream and what right does anyone else have to deny them that.

They can play the Countries you list anytime, but how would they improve?
		
Click to expand...

As I've previously said, if the FA Cup had a group stage and the group was Man City, West Brom, Cambridge, Colchester, Wealdstone and Guisley for example, then yes we should bin it. Four teams simply there to make up the numbers and then maybe one time in a hundred the second team in the group will cause an upset and qualify top of the group.

And how are they going to improve when they're getting humped every time they play? Let them play in competitive games where the teams are more evenly matched and then play friendlies against teams from the next level up for them to improve.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 15, 2021)

Got to love the gallows humour of football fans.  There is a hardcore group of San Marino fans who call themselves "The never one joy brigade".

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...the-worlds-worst-international-football-teams


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## fundy (Nov 15, 2021)

Italy in danger of joining Portugal in the play offs


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## Stuart_C (Nov 15, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59298084

West Ham fans banned/stopped from attending a game in the Europa. 

Napoli attack innocent fans and nothing happens🤷‍♂️


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## IanM (Nov 15, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59298084

West Ham fans banned/stopped from attending a game in the Europa. 

Napoli attack innocent fans and nothing happens🤷‍♂️
		
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UEFA. I'm surprised,  you're surprised.


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## IanM (Nov 15, 2021)

WHS handicapping being applied in San Marino.    England apparently losing.

Ref has now lost the plot.

Clowns' car will zoom across the pitch in a minute, and the doors fall off!


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## fundy (Nov 15, 2021)

Northern Irish fans singing "youre just a shit San Marino" at the Italians 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## IanM (Nov 15, 2021)

England have declared.   

Let's see how San Marino do with the bat


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## Slime (Nov 15, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Slimey dear boy, youve lost me🤷
		
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Got to be honest, I'm a bit confused myself now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 15, 2021)

So that’s looking like 3 players injured on international duty 🤬


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## chrisd (Nov 15, 2021)

Just waiting for the criticism of Southgate's choices/set up/substitutions/half time team talk etc etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 15, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Just waiting for the criticism of Southgate's choices/set up/substitutions/half time team talk etc etc
		
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I guess when playing the worst ranked team in world football it’s going to be hard to pick a wrong team or set up wrong or make the wrong substitute 🤷‍♂️


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## IanM (Nov 15, 2021)

Indeed.  But its hard to keep punching a bloke lying on the canvass


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## chrisd (Nov 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I guess when playing the worst ranked team in world football it’s going to be hard to pick a wrong team or set up wrong or make the wrong substitute 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Someone will be along soon to tell us what he did wrong, just wait


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## 4LEX (Nov 15, 2021)

Italy failing to top a poor group just highlights how bad Southgate got it wrong in the final. Italy are a decent team who should've been overpowered, their strength lies in the midfielders who keep and pass the ball. Go direct and use the wings and England win that. Sit back like a coward as Southgate did then you come unstuck.

 We all know when it comes to the crunch in Qatar Southgate will bottle it and protect a lead or play for pens.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 15, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			But they clearly ARE second class (at best). They're not good enough to be able to compete. In 9 and a half games they've scored one goal and conceded 41. They're not gaining anything from playing in this match apart from financially. They'd be far better off in a competition with Kosovo, Gibraltar, Lichtenstein etc where at least the matches would be competitive.
		
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I agree....you just cannot develop as a team if you never have possession of the football.


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## chrisd (Nov 15, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Italy failing to top a poor group just highlights how bad Southgate got it wrong in the final. Italy are a decent team who should've been overpowered, their strength lies in the midfielders who keep and pass the ball. Go direct and use the wings and England win that. Sit back like a coward as Southgate did then you come unstuck.

We all know when it comes to the crunch in Qatar Southgate will bottle it and protect a lead or play for pens.
		
Click to expand...

Lets hope he gets the sack before the World Cup and that the FA have seen your post here, as you clearly know more than Gareth and would do better.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			So should we bin the League 1 & 2 Clubs from Cups which PL Teams enter and non-league Clubs from the FA Cup?

They can play the Countries you list anytime, but how would they improve?
		
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Well we effectively have pre-qualifying in the cups with all of the preliminary rounds, then the first and second rounds "proper" before the big boys enter in the 3rd round of the FA Cup.

They would improve by actually having possession of the football and being able to try to play....rather than ceding possession and concentrating on keeping the score down. The coach might actually be able to formulate an attacking plan and then try to modify it during a game, helping him develop as well. All you learn by being constantly battered is how to get up off the floor a little more slowly.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 16, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Well we effectively have pre-qualifying in the cups with all of the preliminary rounds, then the first and second rounds "proper" before the big boys enter in the 3rd round of the FA Cup.

They would improve by actually having possession of the football and being able to try to play....rather than ceding possession and concentrating on keeping the score down. The coach might actually be able to formulate an attacking plan and then try to modify it during a game, helping him develop as well. All you learn by being constantly battered is how to get up off the floor a little more slowly.
		
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Yes totally agree.
It might be financially good to play the likes of England.
But looking at the faces and body language of the PLAYERS it’s not doing them any good imo.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes totally agree.
It might be financially good to play the likes of England.
But looking at the faces and body language of the PLAYERS it’s not doing them any good imo.
		
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If I was able to leave my day job as a plumber, carpenter, delivery driver, etc. and play a game of football against England, France, Spain, Portugal, etc. I'd be loving it. I wouldn't care if we lost 50-0, at least I could tell the grand kids about the day I played against a player like Kane, Ronaldo of Mbappe. Of course, I cannot speak on behalf of the San Marino players, only as an individual. I'd say leave it as it is, especially now they still have the Nations League to compete against lower level opponents.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 16, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If I was able to leave my day job as a plumber, carpenter, delivery driver, etc. and play a game of football against England, France, Spain, Portugal, etc. I'd be loving it. I wouldn't care if we lost 50-0, at least I could tell the grand kids about the day I played against a player like Kane, Ronaldo of Mbappe. Of course, I cannot speak on behalf of the San Marino players, only as an individual. I'd say leave it as it is, especially now they still have the Nations League to compete against lower level opponents.
		
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That might sound good but it’s every game .
That can’t be good for the players.
I see your point but they are competitive sports men.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 16, 2021)

If the smaller nations don’t play the larger nations in these qualifiers then they simply wouldnt exist

The money they get from these matches keeps the FA of those countries going each year

It’s starts to get a bit like snobbery if nations suddenly start to deem other nations not good enough to play the bigger nations.

There is no hardship on the likes of England etc to play these nations

Remember the Faroe Island beating Austria or Liechtenstein getting a draw against Ireland


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## Bdill93 (Nov 16, 2021)

I dont think im alone in thinking I could bag against San Marino....


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## Swango1980 (Nov 16, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That might sound good but it’s every game .
That can’t be good for the players.
I see your point but they are competitive sports men.
		
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Perhaps you don't get the mentality as an Englishman. As an England fan, you always go into every game hoping for, if not expecting a win. You feel you are good enough, or should be good enough, to challenge for silverware, and therefore your expectations are high. Anything less is a disappointment.

Coming from Northern Ireland, we have a completely different expectation. Yes, clearly we are not as bad as San Marino, but we know we have nowhere near the quality of many bigger nations. We don't necessarily enjoy defeat, but we are not overly frustrated or angered by it. We give everything in singing and supporting the team through thick and thin, and don't let setbacks or conceded goals bring us down. For me, the best times of my life are going away to support N Ireland, because no matter what it is a great party. Last night we probably celebrated a 0-0 draw against Italy more than England celebrated winning a Euro semi final.

With San Marino, there is no expectation of winning, no matter how competitive the players feel. However, if they were to lose 3 or 4 nil, they way well be bouncing with excitement. They don't play England every week, in the next qualifying tournament they will likely have a completely different top side in their group. They'll also have some other lesser sides in the group. Just doing a quick google to see if I could find any feedback from San Marino players, and they suggest they get "really excited" about playing the best teams.


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## chrisd (Nov 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont think im alone in thinking I could bag against San Marino.... 

Click to expand...

I suspect you might be alone with that thought 🤔🤔


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 16, 2021)

Why stop at San Marino? Why not just invite the top 8 European teams to play the top 8 South American teams.

After all, if we’re honest, no other team outside those 16 will win the World Cup.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Why stop at San Marino? Why not just invite the top 8 European teams to play the top 8 South American teams.

After all, if we’re honest, no other team outside those 16 will win the World Cup.

Click to expand...

Invite every single team in the world for the world cup

Straight knock out like the FA cup

Sod the group stage 

You either play well or go home


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 16, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Perhaps you don't get the mentality as an Englishman. As an England fan, you always go into every game hoping for, if not expecting a win. You feel you are good enough, or should be good enough, to challenge for silverware, and therefore your expectations are high. Anything less is a disappointment.

Coming from Northern Ireland, we have a completely different expectation. Yes, clearly we are not as bad as San Marino, but we know we have nowhere near the quality of many bigger nations. We don't necessarily enjoy defeat, but we are not overly frustrated or angered by it. We give everything in singing and supporting the team through thick and thin, and don't let setbacks or conceded goals bring us down. For me, the best times of my life are going away to support N Ireland, because no matter what it is a great party. Last night we probably celebrated a 0-0 draw against Italy more than England celebrated winning a Euro semi final.

With San Marino, there is no expectation of winning, no matter how competitive the players feel. However, if they were to lose 3 or 4 nil, they way well be bouncing with excitement. They don't play England every week, in the next qualifying tournament they will likely have a completely different top side in their group. They'll also have some other lesser sides in the group. Just doing a quick google to see if I could find any feedback from San Marino players, and they suggest they get "really excited" about playing the best teams.
		
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Yes I do get your point.
When I was playing I always enjoyed the games we won by a single goal the most.
The battle with the CF ,great midfield play !
That was missing last night as it looked like a training game attack against defence ( not a very good one at that)
Beating someone 10-0 dosnt do anything for me.

But It’s the World Cup and they are entitled to their moment in the spotlight .
But I would rather win 1-0 in a tight game than watch that last night.
But as you say if their players / supporters enjoy it that’s great.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Invite every single team in the world for the world cup

Straight knock out like the FA cup

Sod the group stage

You either play well or go home
		
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But surely all that wouldn’t increase the chances of these minor teams winning the WC? All it may do is provide the odd random result.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 16, 2021)

chrisd said:



			I suspect you might be alone with that thought 🤔🤔
		
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Not sure about that.
A non league CF would score a few against them given the service England provided.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Invite every single team in the world for the world cup

Straight knock out like the FA cup

Sod the group stage

You either play well or go home
		
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The group stages provide a guarantee of so many games and money for FIFA.
Let’s not forget that’s the main thing!


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## pauljames87 (Nov 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			But surely all that wouldn’t increase the chances of these minor teams winning the WC? All it may do is provide the odd random result.
		
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These minor teams won't win the world cup ever let's be honest however it would get all teams the chance of playing at the world cup rather than San Marino never making a world cup finals 

You may get the odd results however a team could set up different tactics (defensive like England for example) and nick 1-0s all way to final and spice it up a bit


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			These minor teams won't win the world cup ever let's be honest however it would get all teams the chance of playing at the world cup rather than San Marino never making a world cup finals

You may get the odd results however a team could set up different tactics (defensive like England for example) and nick 1-0s all way to final and spice it up a bit
		
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The point is, imo, we have no right to say who should and shouldn’t be allowed to enter the qualifying stages for a WC.

San Marino know their level and still choose to enter. Good luck to them.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Why stop at San Marino? Why not just invite the top 8 European teams to play the top 8 South American teams.

After all, if we’re honest, no other team outside those 16 will win the World Cup.

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With the the carbon footprint in mind,  just invite Argentina, Germany,Italy and Brazil. Only them 4 win it anyway🤷🤷


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## Stuart_C (Nov 16, 2021)

Some of the people on here have very short memories. Have you all forgotten the utter dross England have served up over the years under Hodgson,Southgate,Capello,Sven etc??

In reality, it's been no better than what San Marino produced last night with players 10x the ability.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 16, 2021)

That’s what the world ranking are for !
Do it like the FA cup so the big teams don’t travel all around playing teams and winning 10-0.
Top 20 don’t play until latter stages.


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## GB72 (Nov 16, 2021)

Is there a bigger picture to look at with regards funding and developing the less successful nations rather than ostracising them. Sadly, I suspect it is like asking Turkeys to vote for Xmas, asking the bigger footballing nations to help another nation challenge for their world cup squad. Sadly been seeing the same thing in rugby, bigger nations keeping the smaller nations down so as they can cherry pick their prime young talent for the future (particularly the Southern Hemisphere teams mining the pacific islands).


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## Orikoru (Nov 16, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Is there a bigger picture to look at with regards funding and developing the less successful nations rather than ostracising them. Sadly, I suspect it is like asking Turkeys to vote for Xmas, asking the bigger footballing nations to help another nation challenge for their world cup squad. Sadly been seeing the same thing in rugby, bigger nations keeping the smaller nations down so as they can cherry pick their prime young talent for the future (particularly the Southern Hemisphere teams mining the pacific islands).
		
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I don't think funding is San Marino's problem, more the fact their population is less than you can fit in most Premier League grounds.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			With the the carbon footprint in mind,  just invite Argentina, Germany,Italy and Brazil. Only them 4 win it anyway🤷🤷
		
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1966……


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## Piece (Nov 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If the smaller nations don’t play the larger nations in these qualifiers then they simply wouldnt exist

The money they get from these matches keeps the FA of those countries going each year

It’s starts to get a bit like snobbery if nations suddenly start to deem other nations not good enough to play the bigger nations.

There is no hardship on the likes of England etc to play these nations

Remember the Faroe Island beating Austria or Liechtenstein getting a draw against Ireland
		
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It wasn't that long ago that Iceland were a nation of whipping-boys....


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			With the the carbon footprint in mind,  just invite Argentina, Germany,Italy and Brazil. Only them 4 win it anyway🤷🤷
		
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Not allowing France to defend their title seems a bit harsh, but having thought about it, I'm in favour. Unlucky Les Bleus


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## Stuart_C (Nov 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Not allowing France to defend their title seems a bit harsh, but having thought about it, I'm in favour. Unlucky Les Bleus
		
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Nothing is harsh against the french.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Nothing is harsh against the french.
		
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Confirmed


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Confirmed
		
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Seconded


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## pauljames87 (Nov 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Nothing is harsh against the french.
		
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Don't think you are in the slightest btw before I say this but isn't this kind of joke part of the issue with sports/ our British culture casual racism which we deem fine and dandy but what does the party on the other end think?

Like when we constantly monk the Scots etc 

On one hand we say we need to stamp it out but then it's so engrained in our culture we don't even think twice about slagging the French off


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 16, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Nothing is harsh against the french.
		
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Canary_Yellow said:



			Confirmed
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Seconded
		
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Carried.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Nov 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't think you are in the slightest btw before I say this but isn't this kind of joke part of the issue with sports/ our British culture casual racism which we deem fine and dandy but what does the party on the other end think?

_Like when we* constantly monk the Scots *etc_

On one hand we say we need to stamp it out but then it's so engrained in our culture we don't even think twice about slagging the French off
		
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I'd pay good money to see that!


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## pauljames87 (Nov 16, 2021)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			I'd pay good money to see that!

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Lol got to love a typo


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## GreiginFife (Nov 16, 2021)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			I'd pay good money to see that!

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Sounds kinky… so would I


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## Leftitshort (Nov 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't think you are in the slightest btw before I say this but isn't this kind of joke part of the issue with sports/ our British culture casual racism which we deem fine and dandy but what does the party on the other end think?

Like when we constantly monk the Scots etc

On one hand we say we need to stamp it out but then it's so engrained in our culture we don't even think twice about slagging the French off
		
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It’s not racism. It’s xenophobia. I’m not sure there’s a ‘kick xenophobia out of football’ movement. It’s harder to fit on the t shirts


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## pauljames87 (Nov 16, 2021)

Leftitshort said:



			It’s not racism. It’s xenophobia. I’m not sure there’s a ‘kick xenophobia out of football’ movement. It’s harder to fit on the t shirts
		
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Doesn't make it ok tho does it?


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## Leftitshort (Nov 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Doesn't make it ok tho does it?
		
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The whole premise of international sport is xenophobic, difficult to avoid


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2021)

Ended up watching the Scotland game. Proper game and an immense performance. The fact is England have always had matches against whipping boys (Macdonald getting five v Cyprus) and sticking nine past Luxembourg and it is hard to see how far those two nations have developed since those games. As long as the FA sees a benefit (normally money of course) for entering the WC and EC then they will. Hard to see how the players develop as has been pointed out but I guess getting a famous shirt to put on your wall and the chance to tell the grand kids who you played against makes the drubbing worth the pain


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## Stuart_C (Nov 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't think you are in the slightest btw before I say this but isn't this kind of joke part of the issue with sports/ our British culture casual racism which we deem fine and dandy but what does the party on the other end think?

Like when we constantly monk the Scots etc

On one hand we say we need to stamp it out but then it's so engrained in our culture we don't even think twice about slagging the French off
		
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Casual racism?? Warwick Hunt.

 Are you really this stupid or is it just your internet persona trying to be holier than thou?


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## pauljames87 (Nov 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Casual racism?? Warwick Hunt.

Are you really this stupid or is it just your internet persona trying to be holier than thou?
		
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Stu honestly I said I don't think you are at all racist in the slightest but isn't the way we the English bash the French, scots etc casual racism? We don't see it as such but isn't it part of the issue that's engrained in sport and culture

We have a thread on this page about racism in sport etc and then on here we don't mind posting bashing the French etc .. isn't it part of the acceptance in what's the issue?


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## Leftitshort (Nov 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Stu honestly I said I don't think you are at all racist in the slightest but isn't the way we the English bash the French, scots etc casual racism? We don't see it as such but isn't it part of the issue that's engrained in sport and culture

We have a thread on this page about racism in sport etc and then on here we don't mind posting bashing the French etc .. isn't it part of the acceptance in what's the issue?
		
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Apart from the fact, it’s not actually racism! It can’t be racism in sport if the example you use isn’t an actual example of racism.
Not saying racism doesn’t exist but you might  as well cite examples of name calling  against gingers for all of the relevance of the above


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## Leftitshort (Nov 17, 2021)

In fact the presumption that anti French xenophobia is racist could be construed as an actual example of racism.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 17, 2021)

Leftitshort said:



			Apart from the fact, it’s not actually racism! It can’t be racism in sport if the example you use isn’t an actual example of racism.
Not saying racism doesn’t exist but you might  as well cite examples of name calling  against gingers for all of the relevance of the above
		
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Isn't Vaughan in trouble for saying too many of your lot here we need to do something about that? To the guy in the Yorkshire cricket team 

I haven't been keeping up much ..

Sounds like something prince Phillip would have said and years ago was semi accepted as humour

Now you can't say that at all 

How is it any different if we go "problem with France.. too many french"


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## Leftitshort (Nov 17, 2021)

If Michael Vaughan said what was reported to a racially specific group, it doesn’t look great but only he (if it was said) will know his motivation. Context can be key as he didn’t use a racially specific insult. 

The French/Scots/Irish etc aren’t a race. Same as jokes about scousers nicking stuff aren’t racist. They may not be funny but they aren’t racist. 

If your don’t celebrate/recognise difference the world is very vanilla


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## pauljames87 (Nov 17, 2021)

Leftitshort said:



			If Michael Vaughan said what was reported to a racially specific group, it doesn’t look great but only he (if it was said) will know his motivation. Context can be key as he didn’t use a racially specific insult.

The French/Scots/Irish etc aren’t a race. Same as jokes about scousers nicking stuff aren’t racist. They may not be funny but they aren’t racist.

If your don’t celebrate/recognise difference the world is very vanilla
		
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I agree entirely with what you are saying. I'm asking is the tribalism about these things part of the issue? Scot may not be a race but if I made a anti Scottish joke I'd be pulled up on it at work for sure on the policies


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## Swango1980 (Nov 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Stu honestly I said I don't think you are at all racist in the slightest but isn't the way we the English bash the French, scots etc casual racism? We don't see it as such but isn't it part of the issue that's engrained in sport and culture

We have a thread on this page about racism in sport etc and then on here we don't mind posting bashing the French etc .. isn't it part of the acceptance in what's the issue?
		
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I think today, we rightly say racism is bad. People will have mocked you had you spoken out against making fun of people of colour 50 odd years ago.

However, xenophobia is still perfectly acceptable, apparently. I mean, journalists will still happily say stuff like "that is the French for you" when the British and French governments are having a disagreement. Happily label all French people within the same negative stereotype. 

So, society allows us to be xenophobic today. However, who knows in 10 or 20 years time. Maybe, by then, it will be completely unacceptable, and users in this forum will be desperately trying to delete past messages for fear of being identified and sacked from their job. Social attitudes change quickly these days.


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## Leftitshort (Nov 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I agree entirely with what you are saying. I'm asking is the tribalism about these things part of the issue? Scot may not be a race but if I made a anti Scottish joke I'd be pulled up on it at work for sure on the policies
		
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Worlds gone mad


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## pauljames87 (Nov 17, 2021)

Leftitshort said:



			Worlds gone mad
		
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Again I fully entirely agree with you. 

However we accept jokes against the French as fine 

But "banta" again those of a diff colour is rightly wrong. What's the diff with making comments against people for being from diff country it's still accepted


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## DanFST (Nov 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Casual racism?? Warwick Hunt.

Are you really this stupid or is it just your internet persona trying to be holier than thou?
		
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Better watch my hubcaps around you.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 17, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Better watch my hubcaps around you.
		
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Oh i  didnt know skateboards had hub caps on them😉

Be careful though, casual stereotyping could be misconstrued as racism by some on here 🤷‍♂️🤦


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## Stuart_C (Nov 17, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Stu honestly I said I don't think you are at all racist in the slightest but isn't the way we the English bash the French, scots etc casual racism? We don't see it as such but isn't it part of the issue that's engrained in sport and culture

We have a thread on this page about racism in sport etc and then on here we don't mind posting bashing the French etc .. isn't it part of the acceptance in what's the issue?
		
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Racism and casual stereotyping is miles apart.

Yes, to some it may be the same but lets not kid ourselves here its not.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Racism and casual stereotyping is miles apart.

Yes, to some it may be the same but lets not kid ourselves here its not.
		
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Casual stereotyping of people of colour?


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## pauljames87 (Nov 17, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Casual stereotyping of people of colour?
		
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What spurs call themselves. Which is totally unacceptable now


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## Stuart_C (Nov 17, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Casual stereotyping of people of colour?
		
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Dont be a pleb. You know quite well as soon as anyones colour, race and now religion is mentioned it becomes racial. 

Or is all casual stereotyping deemed as racism?


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## Orikoru (Nov 17, 2021)

Leftitshort said:



			Apart from the fact, it’s not actually racism! It can’t be racism in sport if the example you use isn’t an actual example of racism.
Not saying racism doesn’t exist but you might  as well cite examples of name calling  against gingers for all of the relevance of the above
		
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I do find it weird though when people try and justify what is essentially prejudice by saying "it's not racism, it's xenophobia". Great, you've redefined it, so you win on a technicality? Homophobia isn't racism so that must be fine too. It's a weird line to take I think. Prejudice is prejudice at the end of the day, it comes in many forms. 

People are obviously fine with bashing French people, I don't care that much because I'm not French, but if there was a French member on the forum? They had to read all that and then started to feel they weren't welcome because people here hate the French? What then? Probably shouldn't just dismiss it out of hand.

(Maybe this discussion should have been on that Racism in Sport thread actually.)


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## Leftitshort (Nov 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I do find it weird though when people try and justify what is essentially prejudice by saying "it's not racism, it's xenophobia". Great, you've redefined it, so you win on a technicality? Homophobia isn't racism so that must be fine too. It's a weird line to take I think. Prejudice is prejudice at the end of the day, it comes in many forms.

People are obviously fine with bashing French people, I don't care that much because I'm not French, but if there was a French member on the forum? They had to read all that and then started to feel they weren't welcome because people here hate the French? What then? Probably shouldn't just dismiss it out of hand.

(Maybe this discussion should have been on that Racism in Sport thread actually.)
		
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Not dismissing it. Just saying it’s not racism. Also homophobia and racism are legislated against, xenophobia isn’t. How do you? Ban shit jokes?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Dont be a pleb. You know quite well as soon as anyones colour, race and now religion is mentioned it becomes racial.

Or is all casual stereotyping deemed as racism?
		
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Why are you getting so offended? Nobody is accusing anybody of anything here, and specifically said so. You seem extremely defensive, but perhaps that is a result of todays society that people feel they need to be.

It was a simple and topical question originated by Pauljames. Negative comments about people of different nationalities is considered acceptable, as you acknowledge. Exactly the same would have been said years ago if similar comments were made of people of colour. Now it is called racism and people lose their jobs and reputation for making such remarks. 50 years ago someone might have said to me "don't be a pleb" if I questioned their comment on a racial subject matter.

In todays society, context means little when it comes to race. I've no idea what was on Michael Vaughan's mind, but perhaps he truly felt it was banter and he had no ill feeling or awareness of any harm he was doing. Today, he will probably struggle to stay in a job because of it.

When it comes to nationality, context is certainly key, and we can almost say what we like. However, like race now, will this be something to also change in the future? This is simply a discussion, nobody is trying to throw anyone else under the bus.


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## Orikoru (Nov 17, 2021)

Leftitshort said:



			Not dismissing it. Just saying it’s not racism. Also homophobia and racism are legislated against, xenophobia isn’t. How do you? Ban shit jokes?
		
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I don't have all the answers. I'm just not sure why xenophobia isn't treated the same as racism. Effectively the same thing, treating someone differently because of something they were born into and can't control.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't have all the answers. I'm just not sure why xenophobia isn't treated the same as racism. Effectively the same thing, treating someone differently because of something they were born into and can't control.
		
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Yet you called people idiots on here a while back when defending “Yid Army” chants by them not understanding the context.

You can’t have it both ways.


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## Orikoru (Nov 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Yet you called people idiots on here a while back when defending “Yid Army” chants by them not understanding the context.

You can’t have it both ways.
		
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Because the intention is completely the opposite. Akin to black people calling each other the N word, it's not used in a negative context is it? It's not Spurs fans attacking their own, it's an attempt to show solidarity with them. At the same time though, I have softened my view and despite it's good intentions, it might appear misguided to others and if it had to go in the interest of stamping out prejudice I'd be absolutely fine with that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 17, 2021)

It’s impact not intent though, the french comment on here was very light hearted banter, but some deemed it racism etc.

I’m sure if someone was offended they could of reported the post.👍🏻


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## Swango1980 (Nov 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s impact not intent though, the french comment on here was very light hearted banter, but some deemed it racism etc.

I’m sure if someone was offended they could of reported the post.👍🏻
		
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They didn't deem it racism? Not the way I read it anyway. They simply asked is it any different to racism? Could the context of such comments be deemed as offensive to some French people in the same way racial comments are offensive to some people of race. "Light hearted banter" is no excuse when it comes to racism these days, but that was not always the case. So, will "Light hearted banter" be an excuse when it comes to nationality in the future. I'm sure "light hearted banter" would have been a great get out for Michael Vaughan back in the day, but it will not get him out of trouble today.

I agree that the context was light hearted banter and no harm was meant. Personally, I think context is key as well. But it is simply an interesting point, albeit shifting the tone from light hearted banter to serious moral questions.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 17, 2021)

Can we get back to football please? (Im not ignoring racism -its just not the thread for this discussion - Racism in Sport has its own thread)

Looking forward to Stevie G's first game in charge of the claret and blue!

Brighton are a tough opponent and a good first test for him. Players are back from injury though and if we do have aspirations of a top 10 finish, we need to be winning games like this at home!

Cant wait to get back to Villa park - a few new songs/ amendments that ive no idea how they will turn out!


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 17, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Can we get back to football please? (Im not ignoring racism -its just not the thread for this discussion - Racism in Sport has its own thread)

Looking forward to Stevie G's first game in charge of the claret and blue!

Brighton are a tough opponent and a good first test for him. Players are back from injury though and if we do have aspirations of a top 10 finish, we need to be winning games like this at home!

Cant wait to get back to Villa park - a few new songs/ amendments that ive no idea how they will turn out!
		
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Are you expecting Gerrard to do well at Villa? Strikes me as a very tough gig this season. Villa overperformed last season, and this is a bit of a transitional year having sold Grealish. What would be a good outcome? 12th or so? Something to build on next season? Or do you think top 10 is realistic?

As a Canary, I'm very pleased we've appointed Smith, I'd much rather have him than Gerrard, but I can see why a change might have been needed at Villa.


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## Leftitshort (Nov 17, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't have all the answers. I'm just not sure why xenophobia isn't treated the same as racism. Effectively the same thing, treating someone differently because of something they were born into and can't control.
		
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🤣🤣🤣explain to me how you legislate against calling the French ‘cheese eating surrender monkeys’
It may not be true, or even funny, but ban it 🤣🤣🤣


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## nickjdavis (Nov 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The point is, imo, we have no right to say who should and shouldn’t be allowed to enter the qualifying stages for a WC.

San Marino know their level and still choose to enter. Good luck to them.
		
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I don't think anyone has said that they shouldn't be allowed to enter the qualifying stages.

I personally think that Cricket got it right at the T20 world cup recently where they effectively had a pre-qualifying tournament where all of the "lesser ranked" nations played each other and two teams qualified for the actual "main event proper".

Put the likes of Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra etc etc in a couple of groups together, let them fight it out and give one qualifying place to the World Cup proper for the eventual winners. The current system means that none of them will ever qualify for the World Cup, none of them will ever experience it. Is that good? Put a system in place where one of the teams will definitely qualify and it might do them a whole lot more good.

Ultimately the current seeded qualifying system is biased to make sure (with obviously a couple of notable exceptions) that the top teams always qualify outright...when the draw is made you pretty much know which 2 or 3 teams will fill the top 3 places. I'd like to see the seedings disappear and for the groups to be drawn on a totally random basis. Of course it will never happen...would be akin to Turkeys voting for Christmas....but it would be a damned sight more competitive rather than just focusing on two games against Poland as key to our hopes of qualification.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 17, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Are you expecting Gerrard to do well at Villa? Strikes me as a very tough gig this season. Villa overperformed last season, and this is a bit of a transitional year having sold Grealish. What would be a good outcome? 12th or so? Something to build on next season? Or do you think top 10 is realistic?

As a Canary, I'm very pleased we've appointed Smith, I'd much rather have him than Gerrard, but I can see why a change might have been needed at Villa.
		
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I think we achieved a lower league position last year than we should have - we were in flying form and then lost JG for 12 games - winning only 1 of them... Had he stayed fit, we might have finished as high as 7th.

Serious investment has been made in our squad since our promotion. We are the third highest net spenders in the prem since we came up - our owners have serious ambition of getting us back into european football. 

Before the start of this season myself and a few mates that go home and away all agreed that finishing 11th again this year represents progress having lost JG in the summer and rebuilding without him was always going to take time. So realistically - that should be the goal for the year.

What do I expect from Gerrard? Not really sure. No question that he needs to be successful with Villa to get where he wants to in the future - he installed a great style of football at Rangers and he plans to do the same at Villa. He just might not have all the players yet.

With another window coming soon, honestly success this year is mid table I think. We have a very capable premier league squad of players. Anything better than that is a bonus. Id then expect improvement year upon year. I know leicester won the league - but theyre not as big as villa as a club and we should have aspirations of over taking them at some stage in the next 5 years. Same goes for Everton, Spurs etc. 

Smith was a great manager for us. Not a bad word to say about the man. I wish you all the best with him going forward - he will play attractive football and youll be entertained. He improved pretty much every player that he worked with at Villa - and he found a system that got the most out of JG and all his talent, which some managers would and do struggle to do (Gareth...).


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			How bad do you think that San Marino are in Football League terms? They'd definitely struggle in the Championship and I'm not even convinced they're good enough for League 1. This game is achieving nothing and is *why I think that teams like San Marino shouldn't be playing in World Cup qualifying.* There should be a second tier competition for the weaker teams with the opportunity to get promoted to the tier above. Matches like this are pointless and a complete waste of everyone's time.
		
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nickjdavis said:



			I agree....you just cannot develop as a team if you never have possession of the football.
		
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nickjdavis said:



			I don't think anyone has said that they shouldn't be allowed to enter the qualifying stages.

I personally think that Cricket got it right at the T20 world cup recently where they effectively had a pre-qualifying tournament where all of the "lesser ranked" nations played each other and two teams qualified for the actual "main event proper".

Put the likes of Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra etc etc in a couple of groups together, let them fight it out and give one qualifying place to the World Cup proper for the eventual winners. The current system means that none of them will ever qualify for the World Cup, none of them will ever experience it. Is that good? Put a system in place where one of the teams will definitely qualify and it might do them a whole lot more good.

Ultimately the current seeded qualifying system is biased to make sure (with obviously a couple of notable exceptions) that the top teams always qualify outright...when the draw is made you pretty much know which 2 or 3 teams will fill the top 3 places. I'd like to see the seedings disappear and for the groups to be drawn on a totally random basis. Of course it will never happen...would be akin to Turkeys voting for Christmas....but it would be a damned sight more competitive rather than just focusing on two games against Poland as key to our hopes of qualification.
		
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As you can see from the bit in bold, the very first post on this suggested they shouldn’t be allowed to play in WC qualifying.

You yourself agreed they wouldn’t develop as a team by playing bigger Nations and now you are suggesting them and teams of a similar standard play each other and are then given preferential treatment to get the WC Finals! Who misses out? 

I agree the current system is flawed, but changing it so these Teams are handed a place is also wrong imo.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 17, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I think we achieved a lower league position last year than we should have - we were in flying form and then lost JG for 12 games - winning only 1 of them... Had he stayed fit, we might have finished as high as 7th.

Serious investment has been made in our squad since our promotion. We are the third highest net spenders in the prem since we came up - our owners have serious ambition of getting us back into european football.

Before the start of this season myself and a few mates that go home and away all agreed that finishing 11th again this year represents progress having lost JG in the summer and rebuilding without him was always going to take time. So realistically - that should be the goal for the year.

What do I expect from Gerrard? Not really sure. No question that he needs to be successful with Villa to get where he wants to in the future - he installed a great style of football at Rangers and he plans to do the same at Villa. He just might not have all the players yet.

With another window coming soon, honestly success this year is mid table I think. We have a very capable premier league squad of players. Anything better than that is a bonus. Id then expect improvement year upon year. I know leicester won the league - but theyre not as big as villa as a club and we should have aspirations of over taking them at some stage in the next 5 years. Same goes for Everton, Spurs etc.

Smith was a great manager for us. Not a bad word to say about the man. I wish you all the best with him going forward - he will play attractive football and youll be entertained. He improved pretty much every player that he worked with at Villa - and he found a system that got the most out of JG and all his talent, which some managers would and do struggle to do (Gareth...).
		
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I think every so often, some fresh ideas help, whether Gerrard turns out long-term to be a better option than Smith, only time will tell, but in the short-term, I think he should get some fresh impetus going.

It's interesting how things have changed during my time as a football fan (I'm mid 30s, so I'm talking 1994 ish onwards), and that back in the day, the size of the club and therefore it's spending power came primarily from the size of the fanbase, and in particular the stadium. Since then, Champions League money changed everything, and now it's all about how rich your owners are.

I agree Villa have historically been a bigger club, but Leicester have significant clout. Not to say Villa don't too of course, just that it's less clear these days that "size" in the traditional sense of fanbase etc. is what actually dictates relatively where different clubs should sit in the table due to it no longer being directly linked to playing budget.

I don't disagree though, that with good management, Villa should be one of those clubs in the pack of Everton, West Ham, Leeds (they've got work to do to get there too), Spurs etc..


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## Bdill93 (Nov 17, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I think every so often, some fresh ideas help, whether Gerrard turns out long-term to be a better option than Smith, only time will tell, but in the short-term, I think he should get some fresh impetus going.

It's interesting how things have changed during my time as a football fan (I'm mid 30s, so I'm talking 1994 ish onwards), and that back in the day, the size of the club and therefore it's spending power came primarily from the size of the fanbase, and in particular the stadium. Since then, Champions League money changed everything, and now it's all about how rich your owners are.

I agree Villa have historically been a bigger club, but Leicester have significant clout. Not to say Villa don't too of course, just that it's less clear these days that "size" in the traditional sense of fanbase etc. is what actually dictates relatively where different clubs should sit in the table due to it no longer being directly linked to playing budget.

I don't disagree though, that with good management, Villa should be one of those clubs in the pack of Everton, West Ham, Leeds (they've got work to do to get there too), Spurs etc..
		
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I agree, thats why I gave them the respect of saying within 5 years. Leicester are a club successful in the modern era of football - not something that villa have been! But something that we have all the infrastructure in place to become - and possibly build to be greater than due to a larger fanbase etc.

I imagine for a Norwich fan you hope of maintaining premier league status at some point again soon? You lasted a few years and seem to yo-yo at present, must be somewhat frustrating?


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## nickjdavis (Nov 17, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			As you can see from the bit in bold, the very first post on this suggested they shouldn’t be allowed to play in WC qualifying.

You yourself agreed they wouldn’t develop as a team by playing bigger Nations and now you are suggesting them and teams of a similar standard play each other and are then given preferential treatment to get the WC Finals! Who misses out?

I agree the current system is flawed, but changing it so these Teams are handed a place is also wrong imo.
		
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OK....I missed Colchester FC's post!! 

They're not given preferential treatment....they've qualified by right....whether the qualification process is good or not is another matter....was just putting an alternative out there. At the very least I think we agree there's got to be a better way than simply letting these teams get pummelled every week.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 17, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Why are you getting so offended? Nobody is accusing anybody of anything here, and specifically said so. You seem extremely defensive, but perhaps that is a result of todays society that people feel they need to be.

It was a simple and topical question originated by Pauljames. Negative comments about people of different nationalities is considered acceptable, as you acknowledge. Exactly the same would have been said years ago if similar comments were made of people of colour. Now it is called racism and people lose their jobs and reputation for making such remarks. 50 years ago someone might have said to me "don't be a pleb" if I questioned their comment on a racial subject matter.

In todays society, context means little when it comes to race. I've no idea what was on Michael Vaughan's mind, but perhaps he truly felt it was banter and he had no ill feeling or awareness of any harm he was doing. Today, he will probably struggle to stay in a job because of it.

When it comes to nationality, context is certainly key, and we can almost say what we like. However, like race now, will this be something to also change in the future? This is simply a discussion, nobody is trying to throw anyone else under the bus.
		
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I'm not offended nor defensive. I simply answered your question that you already knew the answer too. 

For me, why do we feel the need to end peoples careers,Micheal Vaughan in this case?

If what he is alledged to have said is correct many years ago, wouldnt it be better to educate him and others instead of throwing them on the scrap heap?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 17, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			OK....I missed Colchester FC's post!! 

They're not given preferential treatment....they've qualified by right....whether the qualification process is good or not is another matter....was just putting an alternative out there. At the very least I think we agree there's got to be a better way than simply letting these teams get pummelled every week.
		
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Currently there are 55 European Nations competeing for 13 spaces at the WC, if you give 1 or 2 guaranteed spaces to the worst of the 55 how can that not be seen as preferential treatment?

As a side note, Africa has 54 teams competeing for 5 spaces, the whole system is flawed.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 17, 2021)

Leftitshort said:



			If Michael Vaughan said what was reported to a racially specific group, it doesn’t look great but only he (if it was said) will know his motivation. Context can be key as he didn’t use a racially specific insult.

The French/Scots/Irish etc aren’t a race. Same as jokes about scousers nicking stuff aren’t racist. They may not be funny but they aren’t racist.

If your don’t celebrate/recognise difference the world is very vanilla
		
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Oh, there is lots of form on this thread, particularly from *CERTAIN* west ham fans giving it the victim / robbers big un, but as it doesnt fit into the xenophobia / rascism tropes, it gets passed by as harmless.

Let him without sin, and all that.......


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## Swango1980 (Nov 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not offended nor defensive. I simply answered your question that you already knew the answer too.

For me, why do we feel the need to end peoples careers,Micheal Vaughan in this case?

If what he is alledged to have said is correct many years ago, wouldnt it be better to educate him and others instead of throwing them on the scrap heap?
		
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Apologies, but you were the one that called me a "pleb", after no provocation from me. I just asked  a simple question. I assumed you got offended which is why you reverted to name calling, but perhaps that is simply how you like to debate?

Personally, I hate to see people's careers ruined when they did something years before where they were completely oblivious that they were causing any harm, and society didn't make it clear it was unacceptable at that time. That is why I think context is crucial, and often ignored. Pauljames simply asked if xenophobia was any different to racism, but he could quite easily have used homophobia, bigotry or any other form of discrimination as a comparison.

However, I agree with others, this discussion has probably gone too far off topic on football. And, it isn't like any of us will change the world by continuing the debate, so best get back to discussing how Gerrard will get on in his first game, and how amusing people will find it when Watford beat Man Utd 3-0, and Ole tells us after how the "boys played well, can't criticise their desire and we are building towards something special"


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## Bdill93 (Nov 17, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Apologies, but you were the one that called me a "pleb", after no provocation from me. I just asked  a simple question. I assumed you got offended which is why you reverted to name calling, but perhaps that is simply how you like to debate?

Personally, I hate to see people's careers ruined when they did something years before where they were completely oblivious that they were causing any harm, and society didn't make it clear it was unacceptable at that time. That is why I think context is crucial, and often ignored. Pauljames simply asked if xenophobia was any different to racism, but he could quite easily have used homophobia, bigotry or any other form of discrimination as a comparison.

However, I agree with others, this discussion has probably gone too far off topic on football. And, it isn't like any of us will change the world by continuing the debate, so best get back to discussing how *Gerrard will get on in his first game,* and how amusing people will find it when Watford beat Man Utd 3-0, and Ole tells us after how the "boys played well, can't criticise their desire and we are building towards something special"
		
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A sweet 3 points or Gerrard out from me


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## Stuart_C (Nov 17, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Apologies, *but you were the one that called me a "pleb", after no provocation from me. I just asked  a simple question.* I assumed you got offended which is why you reverted to name calling, but perhaps that is simply how you like to debate?

Personally, I hate to see people's careers ruined when they did something years before where they were completely oblivious that they were causing any harm, and society didn't make it clear it was unacceptable at that time. That is why I think context is crucial, and often ignored. Pauljames simply asked if xenophobia was any different to racism, but he could quite easily have used homophobia, bigotry or any other form of discrimination as a comparison.

However, I agree with others, this discussion has probably gone too far off topic on football. And, it isn't like any of us will change the world by continuing the debate, so best get back to discussing how Gerrard will get on in his first game, and how amusing people will find it when Watford beat Man Utd 3-0, and Ole tells us after how the "boys played well, can't criticise their desire and we are building towards something special"
		
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Apology accepted. 

I never called you a pleb, i said "Dont be a Pleb". There's a difference.

You posts are usually well measured, so your post 18244 looked dubious and  added nothing to the debate. 

As for PJ87 we spoke via PM and clarified our posts.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 17, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Apology accepted.

I never called you a pleb, i said "Dont be a Pleb". There's a difference.

You posts are usually well measured, so your post 18244 looked dubious and  added nothing to the debate.

As for PJ87 we spoke via PM and clarified our posts.
		
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Indeed we did, no offence meant either side 👍 sorry if I took the thread the wrong direction


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 17, 2021)

I would think Villa are capable of beating Brighton at home especially with the Gerrard effect and the players wanting to impress the new boss although Brighton are well organised and stubborn. Palace away after will be a more litmus test of where Villa are. A team that are beatable even at home but another that can surprise teams. Wouldn't it be nice for a club to actually realise they need a rebuild and give a manager 2-3 seasons without any fear of the sack to get the job done


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## Bdill93 (Nov 18, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I would think Villa are capable of beating Brighton at home especially with the Gerrard effect and the players wanting to impress the new boss although Brighton are well organised and stubborn. Palace away after will be a more litmus test of where Villa are. A team that are beatable even at home but another that can surprise teams. Wouldn't it be nice for a club to actually realise they need a rebuild and give a manager 2-3 seasons without any fear of the sack to get the job done
		
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I dont think our owners are the hire-em fire-em type. I imagine Gerrard gets some time to make things happen!

As above, no bad word to say about smith but I think the general consensus amongst fans is he took us as far as he could. That and he didnt win many games without JG.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 18, 2021)

So just £2bn then - double what the previous rights where.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 18, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont think our owners are the hire-em fire-em type. I imagine Gerrard gets some time to make things happen!

As above, no bad word to say about smith but I think the general consensus amongst fans is he took us as far as he could. That and he didnt win many games without JG.
		
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Agree with your view on Smith and have to say I thought Parker had done as much as he could at Fulham even before Bournemouth came calling (and he had an hankering to go there anyway). Same when we had Hodgson and once we got to the Europa final I think he had got as much out of that squad as he could. I think Gerrard will bring new ideas from Rangers and his playing days under great Liverpool managers which will help. As long as he get the tools (money) and time Villa could certainly start kicking towards Europa league next season


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 18, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Agree with your view on Smith and have to say I thought Parker had done as much as he could at Fulham even before Bournemouth came calling (and he had an hankering to go there anyway). Same when we had Hodgson and once we got to the Europa final I think he had got as much out of that squad as he could. I think Gerrard will bring new ideas from Rangers and his playing days under great Liverpool managers which will help. As long as he get the tools (money) and time Villa could certainly start kicking towards Europa league next season
		
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Or he could Slip up 😉


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## 4LEX (Nov 19, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Lets hope he gets the sack before the World Cup and that the FA have seen your post here, as you clearly know more than Gareth and would do better.
		
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What an ignorant comment. I don't want him sacked and think he's done a lot of good. But the fact is, he's had a better team in both key games, gone a goal ahead and bottled it from there. He's shown nothing since that suggests he'd do any different in Qatar. I'll be there whilst you're watching on your TV pretending to be an expert.

We need to get away from this small time thinking, England are the best team in the world based on squad quality. A lot of that is down to other top nations having dry spells but we should be winning major trophies or we'll end up like Belgium. We underachieved in Russia and at Euro 2020. Qatar is a golden chance but I can see us making it a hatrick of bottle jobs.


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## DanFST (Nov 19, 2021)

4LEX said:



			We need to get away from this small time thinking, England are the best team in the world based on squad quality.
		
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Love a striker that can't score and a ropey defence.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 39562


So just £2bn then - double what the previous rights where.
		
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Premier league is MASSIVE


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## Rlburnside (Nov 19, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Or he could Slip up 😉
		
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😂😂. Good one


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## Bdill93 (Nov 19, 2021)

For the first time in 3 years I have absolutely no idea who starts for Villa tomorrow.

I think Martinez, Cash, Konsa, Mings and McGinn pick themselves. 

Likely to see Buendia, Watkins and Ings but not sure all 3 start?

Cant decide if he will start Targett or Young for some experience. No idea on the other midfielders (besides McGinn) as we have injuries..

Interesting times


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## chrisd (Nov 19, 2021)

4LEX said:



			What an ignorant comment. I don't want him sacked and think he's done a lot of good. But the fact is, he's had a better team in both key games, gone a goal ahead and bottled it from there. He's shown nothing since that suggests he'd do any different in Qatar. I'll be there whilst you're watching on your TV pretending to be an expert.

We need to get away from this small time thinking, England are the best team in the world based on squad quality. A lot of that is down to other top nations having dry spells but we should be winning major trophies or we'll end up like Belgium. We underachieved in Russia and at Euro 2020. Qatar is a golden chance but I can see us making it a hatrick of bottle jobs.
		
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Ignorant or not I stand by my comment


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 19, 2021)

4LEX said:



			What an ignorant comment. I don't want him sacked and think he's done a lot of good. But the fact is, he's had a better team in both key games, gone a goal ahead and bottled it from there. He's shown nothing since that suggests he'd do any different in Qatar. I'll be there whilst you're watching on your TV pretending to be an expert.

We need to get away from this small time thinking, England are the best team in the world based on squad quality. A lot of that is down to other top nations having dry spells but we should be winning major trophies or we'll end up like Belgium. We underachieved in Russia and at Euro 2020. Qatar is a golden chance but I can see us making it a hatrick of bottle jobs.
		
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Yes I agree the squad.
But our real quality is in midfield and attack but GS dosnt use it properly


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## Cherry13 (Nov 19, 2021)

Howe tested positive for covid… misses first game in charge. Couldn’t make it up with nufc


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## Stuart_C (Nov 19, 2021)

Well played Conor Coady 👏👏👏


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461601473431756803


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Well played Conor Coady 👏👏👏


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461601473431756803

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I wish that the media would focus more on this side of things than the negative press that a lot of footballers get. Yes, there are some complete scumbags in football, but there are far more genuinely decent people like Coady that do this sort of thing. Let's hear more of these positive stories.


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## Billysboots (Nov 20, 2021)

Is this the reaction Solskjaer promised United fans? 2-0 down at Watford?

When are the board going to act, for pity’s sake?


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## fundy (Nov 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Is this the reaction Solskjaer promised United fans? 2-0 down at Watford?

When are the board going to act, for pity’s sake?
		
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tonight youd think, oles at the wheel for the last time surely


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## SteveW86 (Nov 20, 2021)

Who is this Van de Beek guy who has just scored?


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## Billysboots (Nov 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			tonight youd think, oles at the wheel for the last time surely
		
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It’s beyond ridiculous that he’s still there.


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## Billysboots (Nov 20, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Who is this Van de Beek guy who has just scored?
		
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I hope he goes on to win the game single handed, and when Solskjaer runs on to hug him at the final whistle, VDB tells him to jog on.

Wishful thinking, I know. But how that lad hasn’t been given a sniff of a chance considering how poor United have been, I will never know.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 20, 2021)

Ole does need to go,But is Brendan Rodgers really the answer? 😬


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## Tashyboy (Nov 20, 2021)

Good ole Harry. Sweet lord if it wasn’t so painful for Utd fans I would laugh.


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## Slime (Nov 20, 2021)

United ........................ are we the new Arsenal?

We have Chelsea next week without Maguire and Varane!
Oh good.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			United ........................ are we the new Arsenal?

We have Chelsea next week without Maguire and Varane!
Oh good. 

Click to expand...

If Ole is at the wheel next week I will show my backside in Woolworths. 👍


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## Slime (Nov 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			If Ole is at the wheel next week I will show my backside in *Woolworths.* 👍
		
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Which one? I may join you!


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## Tashyboy (Nov 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			Which one? I may join you!
		
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Australia 😂👍 They still have them


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 20, 2021)

Aguero as been forced to retire due to heart problems.


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## Slime (Nov 20, 2021)

I think Ole's sacking will be announced tomorrow.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 20, 2021)

Gerrard does a substitution with Villa drawing 0-0 and they win 2-0. 😳


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## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2021)

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Christ All Mighty, this is just ridiculous


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## AmandaJR (Nov 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Aguero as been forced to retire due to heart problems.
		
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That would be very sad. What a career though


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## AmandaJR (Nov 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			I think Ole's sacking will be announced tomorrow.
		
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Hope not...


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## Billysboots (Nov 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			I think Ole's sacking will be announced tomorrow.
		
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He should have gone during the international break. Get a new man in, regroup and start again. Surely the board aren’t so stupid that they thought Solskjaer could turn this round?

On second thoughts, don’t answer that.


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## Junior (Nov 20, 2021)

Ole at the wheeeeeeeel  ........


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## Tashyboy (Nov 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Aguero as been forced to retire due to heart problems.
		
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absolutely gutted to hear that news. That said am glad they found it now rather than when it is to late. Just wondering why something like that was never picked up before now


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 20, 2021)

L


AmandaJR said:



			That would be very sad. What a career though 

Click to expand...

Lets hope he’s ok.
Class player,but sometimes more important things than football.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			absolutely gutted to hear that news. That said am glad they found it now rather than when it is to late. Just wondering why something like that was never picked up before now
		
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Yeah does make you wonder with all the science in the game.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			He should have gone during the international break. Get a new man in, regroup and start again. Surely the board aren’t so stupid that they thought Solskjaer could turn this round?

On second thoughts, don’t answer that.
		
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Don’t know where I heard it but Zidane is learning English, apparently he has already learned Bobbins, oven bottom muffins, Lancashire crumbly cheese and Black pudding. 👍


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## Slime (Nov 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			He should have gone during the international break. Get a new man in, regroup and start again. Surely the board aren’t so stupid that they thought Solskjaer could turn this round?

On second thoughts, don’t answer that.
		
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The board NEVER do anything with any urgency .......................... except when it comes to paying themselves dividends.
They are absolutely shocking and dragging this club down.
Nothing surprises me any more, other than good performances.

Why, oh why, was he not replaced during the international break, jeez.


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## Slime (Nov 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t know where I heard it but Zidane is learning English, apparently he has already learned Bobbins, oven bottom muffins, Lancashire crumbly cheese and Black pudding. 👍
		
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Ah, but does he know what a sprout is in English?


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## pokerjoke (Nov 20, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Aguero as been forced to retire due to heart problems.
		
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Yes heard this a couple of weeks ago that he might never play again.
Great addition to the P/L and top,top player


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 20, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t know where I heard it but Zidane is learning English, apparently he has already learned Bobbins, oven bottom muffins, Lancashire crumbly cheese and Black pudding. 👍
		
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He only needs to learn one phrase for when they offer him the job....."No thank you".


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## pokerjoke (Nov 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			He only needs to learn one phrase for when they offer him the job....."No thank you".
		
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I hope so I don’t want him.
Ole in
Maguire out


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## Dando (Nov 20, 2021)

I can’t 4-1 moment understand why Manchester United fans are upset.


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## birdyhunter (Nov 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Ole in _the deep stuff_
Maguire out _of the game as usual_

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Fixed it for you


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## pauljames87 (Nov 20, 2021)

This league is mental this year 

We lost today, fair play to wolves they were better to every ball and played well. Always good to see jiminez score 

Anyways we lost and the worst we can end up is 4th... If arsenal win we stay 3rd 

Man United and spurs still miles away 

It's just crazy ...


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 20, 2021)

Slime said:



			Ah, but does he know what a sprout is in English?
		
Click to expand...

Well he has learned Maguire. He’s a sprout.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 20, 2021)

Arsenal's insistence on playing out from the back is just bizarre. I get teams want to play in a particular way but when it is clearly not working you change. They are handing liverpool shooting practice through their own ineptitude, over and over.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 20, 2021)

Emergency board meeting called at Utd.
Looks like the end is nigh


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Arsenal's insistence on playing out from the back is just bizarre. I get teams want to play in a particular way but when it is clearly not working you change. They are handing liverpool shooting practice through their own ineptitude, over and over.
		
Click to expand...

100%
Liverpool love the high press and Arsenal just giving it to them on a plate.
And they say Ole can’t manage


----------



## Dando (Nov 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Emergency board meeting called at Utd.
Looks like the end is nigh
		
Click to expand...

They’re extending his contract


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Emergency board meeting called at Utd.
Looks like the end is nigh
		
Click to expand...

Is the squirrel being consulted? I feel it has earned the right to be there.


----------



## fundy (Nov 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Arsenal's insistence on playing out from the back is just bizarre. I get teams want to play in a particular way but when it is clearly not working you change. They are handing liverpool shooting practice through their own ineptitude, over and over.
		
Click to expand...


Its the Arteta way  lot of cracks lately been papered over by some results against poorer sides, excellent performances from some of the younger players and Ramsdale bailing us out. The lack of central midfield options alongside Partey that werent addressed in the summer continue to hamstring us (and will be even worse in January), especially in the bigger games and we still need a commanding centre half (and leader), still seen nothing to suggest White is the option. 

Happily eat humble pie when we win 3-2


----------



## Dando (Nov 20, 2021)

Ramsdale is doing well


----------



## GB72 (Nov 20, 2021)

Something not working with Rodgers at Leicester, board meeting called, I can see city taking the money and letting him head to United


----------



## Slime (Nov 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Emergency board meeting called at Utd.
Looks like the end is nigh
		
Click to expand...

Why can I only like this once?


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 20, 2021)

How was that not a penalty Salah was taken right out.
Looks like cheats do prosper.


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 20, 2021)

Big Sam for Man U....apparently he's good at keeping crisis teams in the Premier League.

As a Newcastle fan, visiting this thread and reading the comments (from angst ridden supporters of all of the "top" teams, not just Man U) is good therapy for me.....'cos you folks don't know what a crisis truly is.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 20, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Something not working with Rodgers at Leicester, board meeting called, I can see city taking the money and letting him head to United
		
Click to expand...

God I hope not


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 20, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Big Sam for Man U....apparently he's good at keeping crisis teams in the Premier League.

As a Newcastle fan, visiting this thread and reading the comments (from angst ridden supporters of all of the "top" teams not just Man U) is good therapy for me.....co you folks don't know what a crisis truly is. 

Click to expand...

Yours is temporary,ours could be longer


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 20, 2021)

Ramsdale has 4 put past him but is still Arsenals man of the match...even if another couple go in, in the next 12 minutes!!!


----------



## Dando (Nov 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			God I hope not
		
Click to expand...

Best teeth in Manchester if they get him


----------



## Badger (Nov 20, 2021)

Oh well, we made a game of it for 40 mins which is 30 mins longer than usual at Anfield.  Guess with West Ham, Man Utd and Leicester losing it was a free hit as that's the reality of who we are competing with at the moment. Few of the youngsters learning the hard way today but i'd rather see Tavares and Lokonga making mistakes than Cedric and Elneny.


----------



## fundy (Nov 20, 2021)

Badger said:



			Oh well, we made a game of it for 40 mins which is 30 mins longer than usual at Anfield.  Guess with West Ham, Man Utd and Leicester losing it was a free hit as that's the reality of who we are competing with at the moment. Few of the youngsters learning the hard way today but i'd rather see Tavares and Lokonga making mistakes than Cedric and Elneny.
		
Click to expand...


Lets hope Arteta is one of the youngsters learning the hard way!!!!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2021)

For 20mins Arsenal looked very solid but a bit daft with the playing around the back 

Their keeper had a blinder 

Think they are certainly in with a shout for 4th spot - going to be a battle with West Ham 

🤞 that Utd don’t sack the Bus driver 😁




😂😂😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For 20mins Arsenal looked very solid but a bit daft with the playing around the back

Their keeper had a blinder

Think they are certainly in with a shout for 4th spot - going to be a battle with West Ham

🤞 that Utd don’t sack the Bus driver 😁

View attachment 39585


😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

You’ve said much worse & ended up with egg on your face multiple times Phil 😉😂😂😂😂


----------



## fundy (Nov 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For 20mins Arsenal looked very solid but a bit daft with the playing around the back 

Their keeper had a blinder 

Think they are certainly in with a shout for 4th spot - going to be a battle with West Ham 

🤞 that Utd don’t sack the Bus driver 😁

View attachment 39585


😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...


we had more offsides than we did touches in your box!!!!

id love to know what you watched that makes you think we'll be fighting for 4th place lol


----------



## Piece (Nov 20, 2021)

Did anything happen today that I need to be aware of?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			Did anything happen today that I need to be aware of?



Click to expand...

Nope, quiet day all round. No unexpected results. All the big teams won.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			we had more offsides than we did touches in your box!!!!

*id love to know what you watched that makes you think we'll be fighting for 4th place lol*

Click to expand...

4th place off the bottom.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2021)

fundy said:



			we had more offsides than we did touches in your box!!!!

id love to know what you watched that makes you think we'll be fighting for 4th place lol
		
Click to expand...

Look at the other teams that you will be going up against - West Ham , Leicester , prob Spurs and Man Utd. There is a clear gap to the top three clubs but the group just below are very close to each other and that includes Arsenal.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462094743068893191
Will be a shame as he was imo one of the best foreign players seen in the Prem 

Hope the issue isn’t too serious for his overall health


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 20, 2021)

Piece said:



			Did anything happen today that I need to be aware of?



Click to expand...

Yes. A certain team in the PL may well have gone a tad too far and spoiled the fun that everyone bar one team was having. Supporters of that team should feel very guilty right now 😕 😠


----------



## Dando (Nov 20, 2021)




----------



## toyboy54 (Nov 20, 2021)

Aston Villa 2 Brighton 0. Steven Gerrard's 1ST game and 1ST win
So a winning start to his new life in Birmingham..................I'm thinking of wishing him well
Come on GIO, get in there


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 20, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462094743068893191
Will be a shame as he was imo one of the best foreign players seen in the Prem

Hope the issue isn’t too serious for his overall health
		
Click to expand...

See post #18296


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 21, 2021)

Slime said:



			The board NEVER do anything with any urgency .......................... except when it comes to paying themselves dividends.
They are absolutely shocking and dragging this club down.
Nothing surprises me any more, other than good performances.

Why, oh why, was he not replaced during the international break, jeez.
		
Click to expand...

Remember that time you sad yous were 3 signings away from being back... (about 12 incomings ago 😆)

Dunno what I miss more, the 🐿 or mcdominate 😁 

Honestly don’t know how the owners can still be to blame when your the leagues biggest spenders 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2021)

Slime said:



			United ........................ are we the new Arsenal?

*We have Chelsea next week without Maguire* and Varane!
Oh good. 

Click to expand...

Thats a bonus 😂😂😂

Today sums him up. He’s a mid table defender out of his depth at Yernited and shouldn’t be nowhere near the England squad nevermind the Yernited squad😆😆


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2021)

Tough 1st half today against a well organised Arsenal until Arteta lifted the crowd, then the evertonian in him lost that game today 😂😂😂


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 21, 2021)

Much needed win for us today. We smelt weakness in arsenals stubborness to only play short. 

That klopp/arteta non incident galvanised the crowd an there seemed only 1 winner from there


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 21, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Tough 1st half today against a well organised Arsenal until Arteta lifted the crowd, then the evertonian in him lost that game today 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

 2 great minds bro... 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Big Sam for Man U....apparently he's good at keeping crisis teams in the Premier League.

As a Newcastle fan, visiting this thread and reading the comments (from angst ridden supporters of all of the "top" teams, not just Man U) is good therapy for me.....'cos you folks don't know what a crisis truly is. 

Click to expand...

crisis? crisis? Wait til you’ve had Hodgson as your manager,that’s a real
 bloody crisis!!


----------



## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Honestly don’t know how the owners can still be to blame when your the leagues biggest spenders 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

It’s no good spending pot loads of cash on players via a scattergun transfer policy when you have absolutely no management structure whatsoever. 

In that respect there is nobody else to blame but the owners. Nobody.


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			crisis? crisis? *Wait til you’ve had Hodgson *as your manager,that’s a real
bloody crisis!!
		
Click to expand...

You've got to let it go, Stu, you've got to let it go.


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Remember that time you sad yous were 3 signings away from being back... (about 12 incomings ago 😆)

Dunno what I miss more, the 🐿 or mcdominate 😁

*Honestly don’t know how the owners can still be to blame when your the leagues biggest spenders *🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Because they're spending it in the wrong areas!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			It’s no good spending pot loads of cash on players via a scattergun transfer policy when you have absolutely no management structure whatsoever.

In that respect there is nobody else to blame but the owners. Nobody.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst the right players might not have been bought - that squad should be doing better than what it is.

Best back four in the league apparently ?

A far superior squad than Liverpools and only matched by City

All stuff said by Utd fans

The owners have provided the money - the first issue is you have a lawyer spending the money , Woodward , the second issue is you have a bus driver who clearly is out of his depth managing the team

And then you have a player saying - we don’t know what to do with the ball ?’

The issue is now they get 

Spurs reacted because they could see that Conte would be snapped up soon - he would have been a good choice 

Zidane - has declared many times he has no interest in working in the Prem 

Rodgers - is a good manager when things are going well.  Seems to be wanting when it’s not going so well


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Best back four in the league apparently ?

A far superior squad than Liverpools and only matched by City

*All stuff said by Utd fans*

Click to expand...

Therefore it must be correct?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2021)

Slime said:



			Therefore it must be correct?  

Click to expand...

Isn’t that the point of posting on a forum? Yer know writing what you believe……

😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2021)

Slime said:



			You've got to let it go, Stu, you've got to let it go. 

Click to expand...

I never will. One things for certain, it remind‘s me of the darker days when we’re struggling that it could be worse 😂😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whilst the right players might not have been bought - that squad should be doing better than what it is.

Best back four in the league apparently ?

A far superior squad than Liverpools and only matched by City

*All stuff said by Utd fans*

The owners have provided the money - the first issue is you have a lawyer spending the money , Woodward , the second issue is you have a bus driver who clearly is out of his depth managing the team

And then you have a player saying - we don’t know what to do with the ball ?’

The issue is now they get

Spurs reacted because they could see that Conte would be snapped up soon - he would have been a good choice

Zidane - has declared many times he has no interest in working in the Prem

Rodgers - is a good manager when things are going well.  Seems to be wanting when it’s not going so well
		
Click to expand...

I've heard plenty of non Man Utd fans saying things like that as well. 

Problem is, if you have an awful manager, then it doesn't make much difference if you have great players. If the players were able to show great work rate and come out with credit, then they'll pick up results and we'd never be that critical of the manager anyway, because it would mask over his ineptness.

De Gea said it all when he said they didn't know what they were doing. That is 100% on the manager. He tells the players what he wants from them. He is either poorly communicating what he wants, or what he wants is simply not working. It seems the only way to get out of it is to either get rid of Ole, or just sort of expect the players to ignore him and figure it out for themselves. It looks like many are starting to do that, others are half trying to follow his orders, and it is one monumental mess. 

There is no doubt Ole is not good enough. Question is, who do Utd get in at this early stage in season. A long term caretaker manager, or a long term manager, but with limited choice at this stage of season


----------



## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whilst the right players might not have been bought - that squad should be doing better than what it is.
		
Click to expand...

Precisely my point, Phil. The owners have spent a ridiculous amount on players, and yet we are where we are because of the structure above them. It’s not just the manager, but the management structure above him.

So many seem to trace the club’s decline back to the retirement of Alex Ferguson, totally disregarding the fact that David Gill went at around the same time. He was as big a loss in many ways, if not bigger.


----------



## Paperboy (Nov 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Precisely my point, Phil. The owners have spent a ridiculous amount on players, and yet we are where we are because of the structure above them. It’s not just the manager, but the management structure above him.

So many seem to trace the club’s decline back to the retirement of Alex Ferguson, totally disregarding the fact that David Gill went at around the same time. He was as big a loss in many ways, if not bigger.
		
Click to expand...

or the fact that Ferguson left an ageing and average team behind.
Showing just how good a manager he was too win the league with that team.


----------



## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2021)

Paperboy said:



			or the fact that Ferguson left an ageing and average team behind.
Showing just how good a manager he was too win the league with that team.
		
Click to expand...

He did, I quite agree. But that would have been easily surmountable with the right structure in place above the succession of managers we have had since.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 21, 2021)

Need a new bus driver
Ole gone
Carrick taking over for now


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2021)

Well that was fun whilst it lasted. At least Yernited fans will forever have  that 0-5 against us in their minds🤪

Ole seems to be the fall guy, Carrick,McKenna and co have kept their jobs for now.

I wonder what tactics Ronaldo will use for Tuesday, er i mean Carrick 😊


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Isn’t that the point of posting on a forum? *Yer know writing what you believe……*

😉
		
Click to expand...


Not so much what we believe as what we hope.
Most of us know that we're really just writing a load of old molluscs ............................ once we've taken our glasses off.


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Need a new bus driver
Ole gone
Carrick taking over for now
		
Click to expand...

*CARRICK* ................................... oh deary me.


----------



## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2021)

Slime said:



*CARRICK* ................................... oh deary me.
		
Click to expand...

Yep. His lack of experience has been very much part of the problem.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2021)

Slime said:



*CARRICK* ................................... oh deary me.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty sure this is just until a caretaker manager is found. Carrick will have to stop playing Candy Crush on his iPad, and start actually watching the match


----------



## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Pretty sure this is just until a caretaker manager is found. Carrick will have to stop playing Candy Crush on his iPad, and start actually watching the match
		
Click to expand...

I agree this will only be very short term, but I’m extremely surprised nevertheless.


----------



## Dando (Nov 21, 2021)

Steve Bruce is available and Man Utd would be mad not to go in for him, not to replace Ole but Maguire at the back.


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2021)

Dando said:



			Steve Bruce is available and Man Utd would be mad not to go in for him, not to replace Ole but Maguire at the back.
		
Click to expand...


any truth in the rumour that Chelsea have appealed Maguires red card because hes banned next week?


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2021)

good work VAR (now book him for the dive too  )


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 21, 2021)

Definitely a 5.9 for the Sterling dive.


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2021)

some hit that from Rodri


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2021)

Can city borrow the squirrel? What a strike


----------



## BrianM (Nov 21, 2021)

As bad as Everton were, Man City played some brilliant stuff.
I thought Sterling was just caught in fairness, thought it was just outside box though.
Going to be tight between, Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool for title.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2021)

Nice skill from Harrison for Leeds.
I like to see wide men take their man on.
Not enough of this in modern football.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 21, 2021)

BrianM said:



			As bad as Everton were, Man City played some brilliant stuff.
*I thought Sterling was just caught in fairness, thought it was just outside box though.*
Going to be tight between, Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool for title.
		
Click to expand...

whether it was a penalty, foul outside the area, dive or whatever. the fact it took an age once more to come to a decision was just purgatory for the match paying spectators. I watched every angle as a armchair fan. Ave heard every discussion going, but for the match paying fans it just kills the game stone dead. Then Silva gets his foot kicked in the box and it don’t go to VAR. 😡


----------



## Fade and Die (Nov 21, 2021)

Kane strangely not as potent against full time professional defenders!😆


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Kane strangely not as potent against full time professional defenders!😆
		
Click to expand...

EPL Statman @EPLStatman
6m
Tottenham have failed to have a shot on target in: 

🎯 2nd Half vs West Ham
🎯 90 Mins vs Man Utd
🎯 90 Mins vs Everton
🎯 1st Half vs Leeds 

0 shots on target in their last three full games of PL football. 😳


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Nice skill from Harrison for Leeds.
I like to see wide men take their man on.
Not enough of this in modern football.
		
Click to expand...


good to see, hes been truly awful this season having been great last year


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2021)

Glad to hear OGS had such a lovely time as manager of United making new friends 

Sounds like a jolly not a job


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462468647759327238
😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 21, 2021)

That'll be a 5.9 for Son as well. They're all at it today.


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462468647759327238
😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Why is that funny?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			EPL Statman @EPLStatman
6m
Tottenham have failed to have a shot on target in:

🎯 2nd Half vs West Ham
🎯 90 Mins vs Man Utd
🎯 90 Mins vs Everton
🎯 1st Half vs Leeds

0 shots on target in their last three full games of PL football. 😳
		
Click to expand...

How is that even possible 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2021)

Slime said:



			Why is that funny?
		
Click to expand...

It’s weird , cringeworthy and embarrassing 

They have just sacked the guy and he is going on about the friends he has made 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 21, 2021)

Slime said:



			Why is that funny?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I don’t get it either 🤷‍♂️


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That'll be a 5.9 for Son as well. They're all at it today.
		
Click to expand...

Cannot understand why he wasn’t given a yellow for diving?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s weird , cringeworthy and embarrassing

They have just sacked the guy and he is going on about the friends he has made 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

No it’s not.
He gave it his best but wasn’t good enough.
Good to see there’s no bitterness & he moves on with his life 👍🏻


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Cannot understand why he wasn’t given a yellow for diving?
		
Click to expand...

It’s become rare that they book at player for diving, I can only guess they think the defender got the ball


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s become rare that they book at player for diving, I can only guess they think the defender got the ball
		
Click to expand...

He definitely didn't get the ball, he was lunging and didn't get there. Maybe not enough for a penalty but I didn't think dive either. Regardless, the reason he wouldn't get booked is that they won't review dives on VAR, they are only reviewing for a potential penalty and that's all.


----------



## Dando (Nov 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s weird , cringeworthy and embarrassing 

They have just sacked the guy and he is going on about the friends he has made 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

He certainly left the club in a state


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2021)

Dando said:



			He certainly left the club in a state
		
Click to expand...

But they are all still friends though


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			EPL Statman @EPLStatman
6m
Tottenham have failed to have a shot on target in:

🎯 2nd Half vs West Ham
🎯 90 Mins vs Man Utd
🎯 90 Mins vs Everton
🎯 1st Half vs Leeds

0 shots on target in their last three full games of PL football. 😳
		
Click to expand...

Leeds must be absolutely awful then.


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Leeds must be absolutely awful then. 

Click to expand...


theyre clearly in trouble, only have to look at the amount of youngsters on there bench through the injuries they have/had, Conte seemed to think hed won the world cup lol

no different to some of our fans thinking we are going to contend because we beat some of the poorer sides lately


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2021)

Even after he's been sacked Ole manages to come across as a total clown. A giant kid who had a great time, is proud of achieving nothing and made friends - you couldn't make it up. That's the former manager of the so called biggest club in the world, not a coach at a summer football school. 

Football at that level isn't about making friends, it's about coaching, imprinting your ideas of football and winning trophies. There won't be a single Utd fan sad to see the back of his sorry and embarrassing tenre. The only people upset will be rival fans but you can argue the damage he's done is so bad Utd won't be a threat for major trophies this season.

I'd still make Utd big favourites to get fourth based on sheer squad quality and a new manager bounce. The drop off between the top 3 and the rest is huge and led by surprise surprise, manager quality. Pep, Tuchel and Klopp are in a different league to the rest.


----------



## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2021)

Phil McNulty isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but he’s pretty much got this nailed on.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59367516


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462007227166908419
😂😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 21, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Phil McNulty isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but he’s pretty much got this nailed on.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59367516

Click to expand...

i have read some of McNultys pieces in the past and to be honest he has been rubbish. States the obvious, has had a Utd love in for years and I have lost count the amount of pieces he has written saying mangers should be sacked. A poor choice for a “ Chief football writer”.


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2021)

French football at it again, Lyon Marseille currently suspended after Dmitri Payet was hit by a bottle thrown from the Lyon fans whilst preparing to take a corner


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462510156034551811
Ref currently refusing to restart the match on all accounts

Maybe if theyd dealt with the Nice incident differently they may not be having the same problem over again


----------



## BrianM (Nov 21, 2021)

Looks a sore one right on the ear.
The French authorities need to do something quickly as it seems like there will continue to be incidents.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			French football at it again, Lyon Marseille currently suspended after Dmitri Payet was hit by a bottle thrown from the Lyon fans whilst preparing to take a corner


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462510156034551811
Ref currently refusing to restart the match on all accounts

Maybe if theyd dealt with the Nice incident differently they may not be having the same problem over again
		
Click to expand...

It always seems to involve Payet and Marseille?

Has something happened to create all this issues ?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It always seems to involve Payet and Marseille?

Has something happened to create all this issues ?
		
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"Dimitri Payet sparks pitch invasion after throwing bottle back at Nice fans during Marseille clash – Metro" https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/22/dimi...rowing-bottle-back-at-nice-fans-15133919/amp/

He doesn't have much luck with bottles 

I heard it's why a player with his such obvious talents ended up with us for only 11 mil. Nobody at a top club would touch him due to his attuide


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Looks a sore one right on the ear.
The French authorities need to do something quickly as it seems like there will continue to be incidents.
		
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Them choosing to replay the Nice game rather than awarding it to Marseille really hasnt helped thats for sure


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It always seems to involve Payet and Marseille?

Has something happened to create all this issues ?
		
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have been other incidents too, just the 2 higher profile ones have done i think, hes no shrinking violet thats for sure but seems to have been targetted a bit when in the corners etc


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2021)

sounds like Lyon came back out for the game to be restarted but Marseille refused


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## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462389179044802560


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## Bdill93 (Nov 22, 2021)

Great performance from Steven Gerrards Villains! Plenty more of that please!


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## road2ruin (Nov 22, 2021)

Apparently United will move for Poch sooner rather than later which both he and PSG are open to, Zidane (who doesn't want United) would then take over at PSG. I think this would be a good move, I worry that waiting until the end of the season will just result in another season of upheaval and the summer break is shorter given the winter break (World Cup). Would be far better to see if you can get the next permanent manager in now to let them see how this season and get any business done in the summer. That said the powers that be at United cannot be trusted to do anything sensible so we will see.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Apparently United will move for Poch sooner rather than later which both he and PSG are open to, Zidane (who doesn't want United) would then take over at PSG. I think this would be a good move, I worry that waiting until the end of the season will just result in another season of upheaval and the summer break is shorter given the winter break (World Cup). Would be far better to see if you can get the next permanent manager in now to let them see how this season and get any business done in the summer. That said the powers that be at United cannot be trusted to do anything sensible so we will see.
		
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In other good news though Woodward appears willing to stay on longer to ensure it’s a smooth transition 👍


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## Bdill93 (Nov 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In other good news though Woodward appears willing to stay on longer to ensure it’s a smooth transition 👍
		
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Im a big fan of Woodward. Hes done great things for everyone other than united


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## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Apparently United will move for Poch sooner rather than later which both he and PSG are open to, Zidane (who doesn't want United) would then take over at PSG. I think this would be a good move, I worry that waiting until the end of the season will just result in another season of upheaval and the summer break is shorter given the winter break (World Cup). Would be far better to see if you can get the next permanent manager in now to let them see how this season and get any business done in the summer. That said the powers that be at United cannot be trusted to do anything sensible so we will see.
		
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It would make sense, even from PSGs point of view (or any club if another manager was being touted). Otherwise they have to play the remainder or the season with heavy rumours that their manager will be off at the end of the season anyway. That would probably destabilise their players / fans anyway.

I heard Steve Bruce was very keen to speak to Manchester Utd...


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2021)

Think United need Poch asap. Carrick in charge is worse than having OGS at the helm and it can only get worse for United without a decent manager at the helm who will get the best from the squad. They have the players but need to play as a team and not 11 individuals. Will Poch manage to control all the egos in that dressing room? I guess he has had a similar situation at PSG but they are playing in a less competitive league (imo) and title already looks decided so surely easier to keep them all happy


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## GreiginFife (Nov 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In other good news though Woodward appears willing to stay on longer to ensure it’s a smooth transition 👍
		
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I assume that's been paraphrased and the full text was "... a smooth transition of 3 points in to every other team's tally."


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## GB72 (Nov 22, 2021)

Poch will be at United by the end of the month. The ridiculous media flirting has already started, the 'he is Ferguson's choice to replace'  ' Poch would be open to an offer from united etc'. Basically 2 PR teams smoothing the way for the 2 clubs to meet and sign a deal. Zidane will go to PSG, Poch will go to United and i can see it being sorted after this week's champions league matches.


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## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Poch will be at United by the end of the month. The ridiculous media flirting has already started, the* 'he is Ferguson's choice to replace'*  ' Poch would be open to an offer from united etc'. Basically 2 PR teams smoothing the way for the 2 clubs to meet and sign a deal. Zidane will go to PSG, Poch will go to United and i can see it being sorted after this week's champions league matches.
		
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I thought that was Moyesy?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Poch will be at United by the end of the month. The ridiculous media flirting has already started, the '*he is Ferguson's choice to replace'  *' Poch would be open to an offer from united etc'. Basically 2 PR teams smoothing the way for the 2 clubs to meet and sign a deal. Zidane will go to PSG, Poch will go to United and i can see it being sorted after this week's champions league matches.
		
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That’s also one of the issues right now 

Ferguson continuing to hang around and have an influence on what’s happening 

His actions when he retired were a big reason for there issues 

It should be time for him to just remove himself and just watch the games 

We had the same sort of issue when Shankly left and Paisley took over - Shanks kept hanging around and players kept referring to him as boss etc so Paisley had to tell him to stop turning up at training


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## GB72 (Nov 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I thought that was Moyesy?
		
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United's way of getting the message out that they want a manager or player without getting accused of tapping up


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## Bdill93 (Nov 22, 2021)

Cannot get my head around Poch wanting to leave Messi, Neymar and Mbappe for United?

Is it simply because he will be awarded time to get it right at United? Its not like hes been at PSG a long time!


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## road2ruin (Nov 22, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Cannot get my head around Poch wanting to leave Messi, Neymar and Mbappe for United?

Is it simply because he will be awarded time to get it right at United? Its not like hes been at PSG a long time!
		
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Rumours are he hasn't settled there in the sense that he has no input into transfers, that is done above him. Plus his family are still based in London so he'd be happy to move back to England, apparently he'd have gone back to Spurs had he been asked when they appointed Conte.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 22, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Rumours are he hasn't settled there in the sense that he has no input into transfers, that is done above him. Plus his family are still based in London so he'd be happy to move back to England, apparently he'd have gone back to Spurs had he been asked when they appointed Conte.
		
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Sounds weird to me.. If "not settled well" actually means he misses home then Manchester to London is no faster a commute than Paris to London really... If its actually that hes struggling to manage the players - then how does he cope with United? Im sure the board there sign players too - not just the guys wanted by the manager.

Wanting to jump ship from a power house thats loaded and ready to compete to win the CL to United is strange.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Sounds weird to me.. If "not settled well" actually means he misses home then Manchester to London is no faster a commute than Paris to London really... If its actually that hes struggling to manage the players - then how does he cope with United? Im sure the board there sign players too - not just the guys wanted by the manager.

Wanting to jump ship from a power house thats loaded and ready to compete to win the CL to United is strange.
		
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PSG is a revolving door for managers 

if he doesn’t win the CL then he is sacked 

They don’t give the manager any time to build and prob just give him players 

At Man Utd which is a bigger club - he will be given time to build his own team


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## GB72 (Nov 22, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Cannot get my head around Poch wanting to leave Messi, Neymar and Mbappe for United?

Is it simply because he will be awarded time to get it right at United? Its not like hes been at PSG a long time!
		
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Might be finding the 3 of them a bit much to manage. Uneveniable wealth of talent but also pretty much undropable and with all 3 wanting to be top dog, not exactly a stress free environment I guess. His family is still in London as well so a UK job may be a better life option.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At Man Utd which is a bigger club - he will be given time to build his own team
		
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Moyes - 1yr
Van Gaal - 2yrs
Mourinho - 2 1/2 yrs
Solskjaer - 3 yrs

How long do you define as being given time? The above data doesn't suggest they are overly generous on that front. Can you re-work a team in 2yrs?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Moyes - 1yr
Van Gaal - 2yrs
Mourinho - 2 1/2 yrs
Solskjaer - 3 yrs

How long do you define as being given time? The above data doesn't suggest they are overly generous on that front. Can you re-work a team in 2yrs?
		
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At least look beyond just the year timelines - a manager will still need to be showing forward movement for the team for the money spent 

Man Utd have shown that they couldnt be like  Chelsea and swap managers and get success - they were willing to give OGS three years and he got a bit longer because they moved forward a little - 

Moyes just wasn’t the right manager 

Van Gaal about 5 years too late 

Mourinho was winning for them but then went backwards 

We didn’t win for 3 and half years but Klopp showed the club was moving forward 

Pochettino is going to get more time to move Man Utd forward than he will at PSG


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## Bdill93 (Nov 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



*Might be finding the 3 of them a bit much to manage*. Uneveniable wealth of talent but also pretty much undropable and with all 3 wanting to be top dog, not exactly a stress free environment I guess. His family is still in London as well so a UK job may be a better life option.
		
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If this is true then its no given he does well at United - plenty of big names and personalities there. 



Liverpoolphil said:



			PSG is a revolving door for managers

if he doesn’t win the CL then he is sacked

They don’t give the manager any time to build and prob just give him players

At Man Utd which is a bigger club - he will be given time to build his own team
		
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Surely though - you give it a run this year! You dont get those 3 players at your disposal often... Could be his best chance at the CL for some time!


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## GB72 (Nov 22, 2021)

I really do not get to see much football these days. How are the big 3 getting on at PSG, are they actually gelling into the force that you would hope. Not easy to get 2 such big names playing selflessly for a team.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Moyes - 1yr
Van Gaal - 2yrs
Mourinho - 2 1/2 yrs
Solskjaer - 3 yrs

How long do you define as being given time? The above data doesn't suggest they are overly generous on that front. Can you re-work a team in 2yrs?
		
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I don't believe that any manager has the potential for a long tenure at Man U whilst Sir Alex still cast's his influence over the club. His legacy is just too great for the club to cut off ties with him, and whilst he continues to have the ear of the club, then it will be difficult for any manager to operate with total freedom.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I really do not get to see much football these days. How are the big 3 getting on at PSG, are they actually gelling into the force that you would hope. Not easy to get 2 such big names playing selflessly for a team.
		
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Neymar has been out injured for a number of game as has Messi , 

Messi has scored twice and Neymar once 

Mbappe is the player who is carrying them - only been beaten once all season so far and will cruise to winning the league


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## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I really do not get to see much football these days. How are the big 3 getting on at PSG, are they actually gelling into the force that you would hope. Not easy to get 2 such big names playing selflessly for a team.
		
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I don't watch PSG either - Mbappe is their top scorer with 7, but after that it's a host of players with only 3 goals, including Hakimi the right back, Herrera, Gueye, and Neymar. And Messi only has 1.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At least look beyond just the year timelines - a manager will still need to be showing forward movement for the team for the money spent

Man Utd have shown that they couldnt be like  Chelsea and swap managers and get success - they were willing to give OGS three years and he got a bit longer because they moved forward a little -

Moyes just wasn’t the right manager

Van Gaal about 5 years too late

Mourinho was winning for them but then went backwards

We didn’t win for 3 and half years but Klopp showed the club was moving forward

Pochettino is going to get more time to move Man Utd forward than he will at PSG
		
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There was a good case for getting rid of each one, no question. Let's not pretend that Utd are more generous with time than other clubs of their size though. You deliver or you go, the same will apply if Poch arrives.


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## GB72 (Nov 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't watch PSG either - Mbappe is their top scorer with 7, but after that it's a host of players with only 3 goals, including Hakimi the right back, Herrera, Gueye, and Neymar. And Messi only has 1.
		
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Suppose this is what I was alluding to. Look at the Liverpool front 3 and the total is greater than the sum of the parts (not saying any of them is a lesser player, just that the 3 together work together to bring the best results for the team). I am just not sure that you would get that with Neymar, Mbappe and Messi who have been used to being the top dog at their team for so long. With Mbappe hinting at heading to Real, Messi having his heart in Barcelona etc, was having all 3 the best option for the team. Again, you know me, very much a casual football fan giving my thoughts.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Moyes - 1yr
Van Gaal - 2yrs
Mourinho - 2 1/2 yrs
Solskjaer - 3 yrs

How long do you define as being given time? The above data doesn't suggest they are overly generous on that front. Can you re-work a team in 2yrs?
		
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Man Utd were heavily criticised by many for getting rid of Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho so quickly (albeit 2 years + is a long time in football these days). This is probably one of the reasons they held on to Solskjaer for so long.

Apart from Moyes, I don't think any of those managers were part of a careful plan, they were emergency appointments really. 

If they are to learn anything, I hope they learn that the next manager has to have the CV in management that indicates they are up to the job at the club, and they then need to give them a chance. Poch has been touted as a suitable candidate for years, so I doubt there'd me much protest from fans. So, the fans would get behind someone like that, and I'm sure be very patient. 

So, Poch may see such a project as very appealing, where he would think there is a high probability of him having a stable job. The fans over here seem to think a lot of him, I'm not sure if the French fans have a similar general respect since most of his good work was done in England? I'd imagine PSG are very single minded, they must win the domestic league as they should be far and away better than every other team (and so last year was a big failure) and there is also a demand to win the Champions League, because that is the big prize that is missing (however, realistically, the Champions League is not easy to win, there are several excellent teams in Europe). At Utd, fans have more realistic expectations. We want to win the league and be the best in England again, but realistically know that simply catching up with City, Liverpool and Chelsea would be a good early goal.

Also, ironically in forums like this we slate each others teams, and our own sides on a daily basis. Yet, it often seams that Premier League teams have the best fans in the world generally. To be honest, I've no idea what it is like in France. But, when watching Spanish football, it seems like your own fans can turn on players / managers horrifically after one bad performance, even if there had been 10 great performances beforehand. It feels like fans in UK are generally more supportive of their managers and players, even though it can still turn sour after bad performances are continuous. So, maybe some managers just prefer to be in a particular country, and maybe Poch just felt more comfortable in the UK? But, only he could tell us that.


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2021)

Its ok, PSG play City this week so you can all get up to speed on them again 🤣🤣🤣


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## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			Its ok, PSG play City this week so you can all get up to speed on them again 🤣🤣🤣
		
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I don't watch Champion's League, that's old hat. It's all about Europe premium competition, the Conference League.


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't watch Champion's League, that's old hat. It's all about Europe premium competition, the Conference League.
		
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whats this Europe you speak of, I thought we'd left


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## Jensen (Nov 22, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Rumours are he hasn't settled there in the sense that he has no input into transfers, that is done above him. Plus his family are still based in London so he'd be happy to move back to England, apparently he'd have gone back to Spurs had he been asked when they appointed Conte.
		
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So yet  *another *cock up by Daniel Levy 🙄


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## adam6177 (Nov 22, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Cannot get my head around Poch wanting to leave Messi, Neymar and Mbappe for United?

Is it simply because he will be awarded time to get it right at United? Its not like hes been at PSG a long time!
		
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Agree. I can't understand taking a step down to manage them.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Agree. I can't understand taking a step down to manage them.
		
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I can try and provide a potential answer to that. Basically, I don't think managers decide on where they want to be purely on how good or bad a football club is. There is much more to it.

From my own perspective, let us say I was a manager and was the manager at PSG. As I'm a fan of Man Utd, I'll rule out Utd, Liverpool, City, Chelsea as options as clearly I'll have more biased views. However, I'd probably fancy the challenge at Spurs or even Newcastle, rather than PSG. Clearly the money would need to be right as well, but I'd move to those 2 clubs despite fact they are unlikely a better side than PSG. 

Maybe Poch does prefer to be in France, I don't know. But, maybe he prefers the British culture and fans? Maybe he thinks he'll get more money at Utd. Maybe he thinks he'll have more say in transfers? Maybe he doesn't enjoy France as anything other than winning Champions league is considered failure. Maybe he prefers Utd because he thinks it is a tasty project to come into, where there is a great opportunity to improve what they have, this a better chance to be considered successful.

I can't answer why any manager would go to Utd, or any other club. But, there seem to be many reasons why managing Man Utd could be appealing than most other clubs in the world. Even a trivial thing, Poch could tell his grandkids that he had the pleasure of coaching both Messi and Ronaldo, the 2 greatest footballers of all time in many people's eyes


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2021)

To be honest the United job is becoming a poisoned chalice or the Willy Wonka golden ticket to a big payoff depending on your point of view. Big job whichever way you cut it. I think Paul Merson might have a point (no really) https://www.skysports.com/football/...-ole-gunnar-solskjaers-manchester-united-plan


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## Billysboots (Nov 22, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			To be honest the United job is becoming a poisoned chalice or the Willy Wonka golden ticket to a big payoff depending on your point of view. Big job whichever way you cut it. I think Paul Merson might have a point (no really) https://www.skysports.com/football/...-ole-gunnar-solskjaers-manchester-united-plan

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I’ve had some stick here for questioning the logic of Ronaldo’s signing, but Merson has echoed my thoughts. I’m not claiming any sort of excellence in football knowledge, but it’s nice to see someone who does know the game say the same.

I’ll say again, Ronaldo is a class act. Certainly the best I’ve seen first hand. And it’s great to see him back in the Premier League. But I never saw him as part of the plan, certainly when it came to Sancho’s arrival, and I again wonder how much his arrival and accommodation in this United starting line up has contributed to where we now are.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 22, 2021)

The sacking confirms the club is a mess. They’ve reacted to saturday’s defeat, if they’d had beat Watford he stays in a job.

They’ve confirmed they’ll be going for an interim manager til the end of season. Then what? 

I can only assume they've got someome lined up ready for next season.

The strange thing about the sacking is the coaching staff, who have been with OGS and arguably as culpable for the results as the manager was have kept their jobs.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The sacking confirms the club is a mess. They’ve reacted to saturday’s defeat, if they’d had beat Watford he stays in a job.

They’ve confirmed they’ll be going for an interim manager til the end of season. Then what? 

I can only assume they've got someome lined up ready for next season.

The strange thing about the sacking is the coaching staff, who have been with OGS and arguably as culpable for the results as the manager was have kept their jobs.
		
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Couldn’t agree more.
Feel for Ole 
No plan,no structure.

Does it mean this week players will start running and start putting in a shift,I can’t see it.
Maguire came out yesterday saying “they are trying as hard as they can” well I beg to differ,and he’s probably the worst of the lot.
A long road ahead.


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## chrisd (Nov 22, 2021)

Let's be frank, Oli didnt do the job well, the players let him down and I really have no view that he ever was a " legend" . I'm just sad that they may now improve as a team, I'd be very happy to see them relegated as I did many years back 😂😂


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## Stuart_C (Nov 22, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Couldn’t agree more.
Feel for Ole
No plan,no structure.

Does it mean this week players will start running and start putting in a shift,I can’t see it.
Maguire came out yesterday saying “they are trying as hard as they can” well I beg to differ,and he’s probably the worst of the lot.
A long road ahead.
		
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I don't feel for Ole, its part and parcel of football. There's very little loyalty in football unfortunately.

What i was surprised at, was Carrick's interview about his ideas on how they're going to play etc.

I wonder if he discussed his ideas to his gaffer over the last few months🤔🤔

As for Maguire, he's a liability.

Look at his 2nd yellow card on saturday, he loses control of a ball and he's got no one near him. Over runs it and makes a stupid late tackle. 

Top defenders dont do that.
The worlds most expensive defender does though 🤣🤣🤣


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## adam6177 (Nov 22, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve had some stick here for questioning the logic of Ronaldo’s signing, but Merson has echoed my thoughts. I’m not claiming any sort of excellence in football knowledge, but it’s nice to see someone who does know the game say the same.

I’ll say again, Ronaldo is a class act. Certainly the best I’ve seen first hand. And it’s great to see him back in the Premier League. But I never saw him as part of the plan, certainly when it came to Sancho’s arrival, and I again wonder how much his arrival and accommodation in this United starting line up has contributed to where we now are.
		
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Ive said the same thing to guys at work and always get met with stares like I've said something offensive about their mothers. 

Ole took United to 6th, 3rd and 2nd in the PL  during his stint at the wheel.  They sign Ronaldo and then this happens...... Oles way of organising his team was compromised by Ronaldo's signing.

Good luck to the next guy. He's going to need it.


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



*1. I don't feel for Ole, its part and parcel of football. *There's very little loyalty in football unfortunately.

What i was surprised at, was Carrick's interview about his ideas on how they're going to play etc.

I wonder if he discussed his ideas to his gaffer over the last few months🤔🤔

As for Maguire, he's a liability.

*2. Look at his 2nd yellow card on Saturday, he loses control of a ball and he's got no one near him. Over runs it and makes a stupid late tackle.
Top defenders don't do that.*

The worlds most expensive defender does though 🤣🤣🤣
		
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1. I felt sorry for VVD when he did his leg last season, that's part and parcel of football. Does that make me odd?

2. But that's a huge part of Utd's problem right now. Confidence is through the floor and players are scared when they have the ball which, I believe, is why nobody showed for the ball when Maguire had it. He had to deal with the situation on his own with no help from a teammate. Okay, he dealt with it badly and next time he'll hopefully take the row Z route.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2021)

Slime said:



			1. *I felt sorry for VVD when he did his leg last season, that's part and parcel of football. Does that make me odd?*

2. But that's a huge part of Utd's problem right now. Confidence is through the floor and players are scared when they have the ball which, I believe, is why nobody showed for the ball when Maguire had it. He had to deal with the situation on his own with no help from a teammate. Okay, he dealt with it badly and next time he'll hopefully take the row Z route.

Click to expand...

Someone suffering a serious knee injury is touch different to someone being sacked for being rubbish surely


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## Papas1982 (Nov 22, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve had some stick here for questioning the logic of Ronaldo’s signing, but Merson has echoed my thoughts. I’m not claiming any sort of excellence in football knowledge, but it’s nice to see someone who does know the game say the same.

I’ll say again, Ronaldo is a class act. Certainly the best I’ve seen first hand. And it’s great to see him back in the Premier League. But I never saw him as part of the plan, certainly when it came to Sancho’s arrival, and I again wonder how much his arrival and accommodation in this United starting line up has contributed to where we now are.
		
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Sancho, arguably the worlds in form out and out winger for 18 months, arrives the same time as one If the best box predators of all time. Match made in heaven imo.
id s]certainly not be using aversion as a yardstick for valid opinions.


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Someone suffering a serious knee injury is touch different to someone being sacked for being rubbish surely
		
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The point is that it's all part and parcel of football, which was Stu's point.
Maybe I just have too much compassion, but I feel sorry for Ole because he really cares.
We all know he wasn't up to the job, but he tried and failed, and yes, I feel sorry for him.
I felt no sorrow for Mourinho, for example, as the job meant little to him other than to fill his wallet and massage his ego, with Ole it was completely different, surely even you can appreciate that.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 22, 2021)

Slime said:



			The point is that it's all part and parcel of football, which was Stu's point.
Maybe I just have too much compassion, but I feel sorry for Ole because he really cares.
We all know he wasn't up to the job, but he tried and failed, and yes, I feel sorry for him.
I felt no sorrow for Mourinho, for example, as the job meant little to him other than to fill his wallet and massage his ego, with Ole it was completely different, surely even you can appreciate that.
		
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Sorry, but generally speaking the player who suffers an injury is very rarely at fault. Ole has been “at the wheel“ long enough to be accountable.
imo, he should have walked, that would have saved his credibility a small amount.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 22, 2021)

Slime said:



			1. I felt sorry for VVD when he did his leg last season, that's part and parcel of football. Does that make me odd?

2. But that's a huge part of Utd's problem right now. Confidence is through the floor and players are scared when they have the ball which, I believe, is why nobody showed for the ball when Maguire had it. He had to deal with the situation on his own with no help from a teammate. Okay, he dealt with it badly and next time he'll hopefully take the row Z route.

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How can you feel sorry for some one who isn’t good enough to do a job he’s extremely well paid to do?

Football is about results and the book stops with the manager regardless of how good the players are or how out of form they are.

I totally understand Yernited fans feeling sorry for him, he’s one of theirs, a club legend etc. I’ve been there with Kenny. 

Maguire was doing the above when he was in form too. Look at how many last ditch tackles he has to make because he’s poor positionally. He seemed confident when he was giving it the big’un after scoring for England.

He wouldn’t have to put it in row Z if his game was good enough, he’d retain possession/ pass it to a team mate.

Leicester is his Level. He’ll never be good enough for Yernited IMO.


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Sorry, but generally speaking the player who suffers an injury is very rarely at fault. Ole has been “at the wheel“ long enough to be accountable.
imo, *he should have walked*, that would have saved his credibility a small amount.
		
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That may well be the case, but I still feel sorry for him.


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			How can you feel sorry for some one who isn’t good enough to do a job he’s extremely well paid to do?

Football is about results and the book stops with the manager regardless of how good the players are or how out of form they are.

I totally understand Yernited fans feeling sorry for him, he’s one of theirs, a club legend etc. I’ve been there with Kenny.

Maguire was doing the above when he was in form too. Look at how many last ditch tackles he has to make because he’s poor positionally. He seemed confident when he was giving it the big’un after scoring for England.

*He wouldn’t have to put it in row Z if his game was good enough, he’d retain possession/ pass it to a team mate.*

Leicester is his Level. He’ll never be good enough for Yernited IMO.
		
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But that's my point ......................... his team mates were missing in action.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 22, 2021)

Slime said:



			But that's my point ......................... his team mates were missing in action.
		
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Your attributing Slab heads mess up to his team mates? 

Look at the guys ego for England? He's a mid table CB who got as lucky as Southgate did at the last world cup. 

Imo If UTD drop him you wouldn't even get 30m for him.


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2021)

any truth the 4 assistant coaches were all given 3 year extensions a few weeks ago?

sounds like Arsenal contractual negotiations lol


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Your attributing Slab heads mess up to his team mates?

Look at the guys ego for England? He's a mid table CB who got as lucky as Southgate did at the last world cup.

Imo If UTD drop him you wouldn't even get 30m for him.
		
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## 3offTheTee (Nov 22, 2021)

I feel so sorry for Ole £7,000,000 pay off. Enough said


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## Papas1982 (Nov 22, 2021)

Slime said:





Click to expand...

Hindsight will see what happens, but I'm happy to bed Maguire doesn't go for 30m before he retires.....


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 23, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			I feel so sorry for Ole £7,000,000 pay off. Enough said
		
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Imagine going into work today,boss says “look it’s not working out,you’re sacked”
Here’s £7m 🤯😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 23, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			I feel so sorry for Ole £7,000,000 pay off. Enough said
		
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Bless him. A pauper compared to Steve Bruce and his £8m payoff. I'll start a just giving page 👍


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## Billysboots (Nov 23, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Sancho, arguably the worlds in form out and out winger for 18 months, arrives the same time as one If the best box predators of all time. Match made in heaven imo.
id s]certainly not be using aversion as a yardstick for valid opinions.
		
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Not sure I entirely follow, but my point all along was that Sancho would have played wide right, Rashford left, and either Cavani or Greenwood through the middle. 

Because of the last minute Ronaldo signing and Solskjaer’s frankly unfathomable fascination with playing Greenwood, even out of position, it has meant the best out and out winger of the last eighteen months hardly getting a kick. That was never Solskjaer’s plan in the summer. Never in a month of Sundays.

Solskjaer, for reasons best known to himself, very clearly had favourites in that squad. Greenwood is a prime example of someone whose form has been patchy at best, and yet he kept getting picked, out of position, in favour of a player who cost £73m. And don’t even get me started on Van de Beek.

Olé’s insistence on picking the same players, week in, week out, regardless of performance was absolutely baffling given the talent he had sitting on the bench.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2021)

Slime said:



			But that's my point ......................... his team mates were missing in action.
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 yeah alright, its his teamates fault🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

When things are going wrong 1st and foremost you take responsibility for your own actions and performances.

It's basic stuff like controlling the ball. His 3rd touch on saturday  was a real heavy one that led him to foul Cleverley. He does it so often. You can't blame  Fred for that😉

I think your Yernited bias is clouding your judgement on his actual ability.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Not sure I entirely follow, but my point all along was that Sancho would have played wide right, Rashford left, and either Cavani or Greenwood through the middle.

Because of the last minute Ronaldo signing and Solskjaer’s frankly unfathomable fascination with playing Greenwood, even out of position, it has meant the best out and out winger of the last eighteen months hardly getting a kick. That was never Solskjaer’s plan in the summer. Never in a month of Sundays.

Solskjaer, for reasons best known to himself, very clearly had favourites in that squad. Greenwood is a prime example of someone whose form has been patchy at best, and yet he kept getting picked, out of position, in favour of a player who cost £73m. And don’t even get me started on Van de Beek.

Olé’s insistence on picking the same players, week in, week out, regardless of performance was absolutely baffling given the talent he had sitting on the bench.
		
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I find it funny how players who arent getting a game suddenly become world beaters.

I've seen it at Liverpool with Robbie Keane. Rafa wouldnt start him, and all of a sudden he'd be the best in the world🤣🤣

I dont  think his team selections were that bad, it was the dismal tactics he was deploying and surely that comes as a collective from the coaching staff too.


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## Billysboots (Nov 23, 2021)

I’m not sure there’s even a debate to be had about Harry Maguire. United paid £40m too much for him, at least. He is nowhere near the quality of VVD, and there are any number of central defenders about who I would currently pick ahead of him.

In a fully fit, in form squad I would perhaps opt for Varane and Bailly as my first choice pair. The latter is so injury prone he’s never had a proper run in the side to iron out the confidence issues which lead to occasional mistakes. But he has pace, and he reads the game exceptionally well. It would be interesting to see how he would develop playing a run of games alongside a top CB like Varane.

I have a couple of Leicester season ticket holders who are mates, and they take the rise out of me repeatedly about the fee we were stupid enough to pay for Maguire. United were mugged.


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## Billysboots (Nov 23, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I find it funny how players who arent getting a game suddenly become world beaters.

I've seen it at Liverpool with Robbie Keane. Rafa wouldnt start him, and all of a sudden he'd be the best in the world🤣🤣

I dont  think his team selections were that bad, it was the dismal tactics he was deploying and surely that comes as a collective from the coaching staff too.
		
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He hasn’t become a world beater, Stu. Nobody is saying that. But he had that reputation in Germany, which is why he commanded the fee United paid. To not be given a run of games is mystifying and, when he has played, it has often been out of position on the left so Solskjaer could accommodate Greenwood. 

You simply don’t pursue a signing for eighteen months, pay £73m for him, and then utilise him as a squad player unless someone above you has ripped up your plans at the eleventh hour to bring in a signing you never contemplated. 

I say again, Ronaldo was never part of the plan, and his arrival caused Solskjaer a real headache.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			He hasn’t become a world beater, Stu. Nobody is saying that. But he had that reputation in Germany, which is why he commanded the fee United paid. To not be given a run of games is mystifying and, when he has played, it has often been out of position on the left so Solskjaer could accommodate Greenwood.

You simply don’t pursue a signing for eighteen months, pay £73m for him, and then utilise him as a squad player unless someone above you has ripped up your plans at the eleventh hour to bring in a signing you never contemplated.

I say again, Ronaldo was never part of the plan, and his arrival caused Solskjaer a real headache.
		
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Sorry i was talking about DVDB😉

Sancho is a complete different issue.


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## Billysboots (Nov 23, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry i was talking about DVDB😉

Sancho is a complete different issue.
		
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VDB may well be a world beater. Problem is none of us has been given a chance to judge! It’s utterly baffling treatment of a player who cost nearly £40m.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2021)

The truth is, there is no doubt Man Utd have the best squad in the world, and with a half decent manager will probably dominate every competition they play in


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## Bdill93 (Nov 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The truth is, there is no doubt Man Utd have the best squad in the world, and with a half decent manager will probably dominate every competition they play in 

Click to expand...


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			He hasn’t become a world beater, Stu. Nobody is saying that. But he had that reputation in Germany, which is why he commanded the fee United paid. To not be given a run of games is mystifying and, when he has played, it has often been out of position on the left so Solskjaer could accommodate Greenwood.

You simply don’t pursue a signing for eighteen months, pay £73m for him, and then utilise him as a squad player unless someone above you has ripped up your plans at the eleventh hour to bring in a signing you never contemplated.

I say again, Ronaldo was never part of the plan, and his arrival caused Solskjaer a real headache.
		
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Does this just show the manager wasn’t in charge?
Buying players he dosnt want is a massive problem, worse than not buying ones he does want.
But OGS should have grown a pair and left CR out and played the team he wanted to.
By not doing that it cost him his job.
But the compo wasn’t to bad and will ease the pain.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 23, 2021)

I think consistently United's problem since Fergie/ Gill left has been Ed Woodward.

The man has no idea how to run a football club. In the time since he took over from David Gill you've made more steps backwards than forwards.

There is no clear structure at united, no clear transfer policy and about 10 players collecting salaries who produce nothing. 

Greenwood and Rashford have stagnated, they have not progressed at all.

Big mess to sort out!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2021)

My take on the players 

Maguire - vastly overrated, mid table CB the same as the likes of Ben Mee etc , over priced because of the World Cup. Players like Tarkowski are better than him 

Van Der Beek - at Ajax he was very tidy on the ball , complimented De Jong well but needs a ball winner , he didn’t suit Utd but would the top 3 clubs 

Sancho - he was superb for Dortmund, did well for England but once Ronaldo was signed they didn’t know what to do with him 

Would take both Sancho and VDB at Liverpool


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## Bdill93 (Nov 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			My take on the players

Maguire - vastly overrated, mid table CB the same as the likes of Ben Mee etc , over priced because of the World Cup. Players like Tarkowski are better than him

Van Der Beek - at Ajax he was very tidy on the ball , complimented De Jong well but needs a ball winner , he didn’t suit Utd but would the top 3 clubs

Sancho - he was superb for Dortmund, did well for England but once Ronaldo was signed they didn’t know what to do with him

Would take both Sancho and VDB at Liverpool
		
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I do disagree about Maguire. I think hes a top 6 CB - certainly better than who youve mentioned, just not worth what they paid for him. Give him a proper top manager and he will come good.

The price makes people compare him to VVD - no one in the world comes close  best business Liverpool have done for years.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Does this just show the manager wasn’t in charge?
Buying players he dosnt want is a massive problem, worse than not buying ones he does want.
But OGS should have grown a pair and left CR out and played the team he wanted to.
By not doing that it cost him his job.
But the compo wasn’t to bad and will ease the pain.
		
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Certainly indicates OGS was not in charge of transfers. De Beek is the biggest indicator of that. It is also clear that Ronaldo was a sudden purchase. So, perhaps that is the reason Sancho warms the bench (as OGS loves Greenwood), or maybe Sancho was not an OGS buy. It is all very well saying Ronaldo was not part of the plan, but if Kane or Haaland had been available and wanting to go to United, I'm pretty sure United would have tried to bring them in to the club. I reckon they'd also try and convince Cavani to stay, as he is a fantastic pro and did really well for us last season.

It is all very well saying he should have left Ronaldo out, as if United would have been a much more successful team. I still personally 100% disagree. If a manager does not know how to accommodate possibly the best No.9 in the world, then that is pretty shocking. And, Ronaldo has dug him out of a hole time and time again. Potentially Ronaldo is the only person at the club who has come away with any credit this season, yet ironically people point the finger towards him as if he is the problem. Really? Look at the stick OGS got from his own fans when he left Ronaldo out of the starting line up, and they were shocking without him. 

Let's look at Greenwood instead. Love the guy, and he has shown some great potential in his early days. But, he has been shocking this year, he does nothing. He may or may not be out of position on the right, but he was able to do well there last season. But, opposition have figured him out, and he has not developed his game to find other ways to contribute. I don't really blame him, as it is the coaches that need to help develop him as a player, and it is not working. Had he been a No.9 this year, I seriously doubt he'd have set the world alight. He has a good left and right foot, but there are a million things he does not possess that Ronaldo does with ease. In my opinion, he should have been taken out of the firing line a while ago, and Sancho given a good run of games to get to know his team mates. De Beek / Lingard should have been given more opportunities, many more. OGS obsession with Fred and McTomminay as the defensive midfielders is crazy, and Bruno needs a rest / a kick up the backside every now and then by being left out. None of the United midfielders show any ability to control the tempo of the game, by keeping the ball moving and keeping possession. Most players need time to control the ball, then decide what to do before executing, rather than it being second nature where a pass should go before they even get the ball. Bruno is best on the ball, but he tries the Hollywood ball so often, thus giving the ball away regularly. It seems to be that this may be less of a quality issue (although I question the quality of several of the players), but more of a "I have literally no idea where my team mates will be or where they'll run" mentality.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Certainly indicates OGS was not in charge of transfers. De Beek is the biggest indicator of that. It is also clear that Ronaldo was a sudden purchase. So, perhaps that is the reason Sancho warms the bench (as OGS loves Greenwood), or maybe Sancho was not an OGS buy. It is all very well saying Ronaldo was not part of the plan, but if Kane or Haaland had been available and wanting to go to United, I'm pretty sure United would have tried to bring them in to the club. I reckon they'd also try and convince Cavani to stay, as he is a fantastic pro and did really well for us last season.

It is all very well saying he should have left Ronaldo out, as if United would have been a much more successful team. I still personally 100% disagree. If a manager does not know how to accommodate possibly the best No.9 in the world, then that is pretty shocking. And, Ronaldo has dug him out of a hole time and time again. Potentially Ronaldo is the only person at the club who has come away with any credit this season, yet ironically people point the finger towards him as if he is the problem. Really? Look at the stick OGS got from his own fans when he left Ronaldo out of the starting line up, and they were shocking without him.

Let's look at Greenwood instead. Love the guy, and he has shown some great potential in his early days. But, he has been shocking this year, he does nothing. He may or may not be out of position on the right, but he was able to do well there last season. But, opposition have figured him out, and he has not developed his game to find other ways to contribute. I don't really blame him, as it is the coaches that need to help develop him as a player, and it is not working. Had he been a No.9 this year, I seriously doubt he'd have set the world alight. He has a good left and right foot, but there are a million things he does not possess that Ronaldo does with ease. In my opinion, he should have been taken out of the firing line a while ago, and Sancho given a good run of games to get to know his team mates. De Beek / Lingard should have been given more opportunities, many more. OGS obsession with Fred and McTomminay as the defensive midfielders is crazy, and Bruno needs a rest / a kick up the backside every now and then by being left out. None of the United midfielders show any ability to control the tempo of the game, by keeping the ball moving and keeping possession. Most players need time to control the ball, then decide what to do before executing, rather than it being second nature where a pass should go before they even get the ball. Bruno is best on the ball, but he tries the Hollywood ball so often, thus giving the ball away regularly. It seems to be that this may be less of a quality issue (although I question the quality of several of the players), but more of a "I have literally no idea where my team mates will be or where they'll run" mentality.
		
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Greenwood has certainly never lived up to his hype. Id argue Rashford the same.

United fans mention them all the time like they're world beaters - far from it - but had they had a Klopp/Pep level manager for 3 years it could have been a different story.

Not too late for either with the right appointment.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Greenwood has certainly never lived up to his hype. Id argue Rashford the same.

United fans mention them all the time like they're world beaters - far from it - but had they had a Klopp/Pep level manager for 3 years it could have been a different story.

Not too late for either with the right appointment.
		
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Agree, I'd definitely put Rashford in the same category. Even Martial. They show so much potential, and then simply stall in their development. Had Sancho been given a chance, there'd be a good chance he'd stall as well. We have seen this pattern time and time again. Players show individual talent, and the coaching staff seem to think that will win them matches. However, they forget how to stitch that quality together to play in a team, and provide sustained quality during a match, rather than hope for flashes in the pan.


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## Orikoru (Nov 23, 2021)

Greenwood has loads of time, he's only 20 still. His problem though is that to me it looks like his best position is out-and-out striker, but he's hardly going to get any minutes there. Shoving him on the left or the right to crowbar him in isn't doing him that many favours. With his finishing and two-footedness, I think he needs a loan move where he can play up front week in week out, and then we'd see what he's capable of. Doing a job out wide to accommodate the 36 year old they're paying silly money to isn't helping him in any way.

So often a young player coming through at a big club doesn't get the minutes they need to develop. The ones who do make it are the ones who start out at smaller clubs, get themselves on the pitch and work their way up. Only exceptions are proper generational talents like Foden really.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 23, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Greenwood has certainly never lived up to his hype. Id argue Rashford the same.

United fans mention them all the time like they're world beaters - far from it - but had they had a Klopp/Pep level manager for 3 years it could have been a different story.

Not too late for either with the right appointment.
		
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Rashford is there because he’s good for PR.
UTD should have sacked him,Pogba ,Maguire & Lingard aswell.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Rashford is there because he’s good for PR.
UTD should have sacked him,Pogba ,Maguire & Lingard aswell.
		
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Hmmm, I'd think it would be hasty to give up on Greenwood at this stage. Yes, his form has dipped big time since he campaigning outside football. Maybe that is a factor, or maybe it is coincidence his campaigning happened at a time the coaching was failing all players in the squad. He still shows that potential that he could be one of the biggest attacking threats for Utd if he learnt how to complete a move. If he had good players around him, maybe he'd feel less obliged to take on the opposition by himself.

Pogba and Martial should have gone long ago. Perhaps Martial has just unfortunately been impacted by the same poor coaching and he is just further down the line Rashford seems to be on. However, Pogba is incredibly frustrating, and with all the rubbish that comes out through his agent, he should just go.

I'd have agreed with Lingard a few seasons ago, but he is an example of a player who gets a chance on loan, gets the platform to show his talent and gain confidence, and therefore someone who should be given another chance I think. Bit like Orikoru's point on Greenwood going on loan, albeit Greenwood is younger. Maguire, undoubtedly, has been absolutely shocking. Clearly, he will never be VVD, but VVD is probably the best CB in world, so there is no shame not being as good as him. However, I can't believe Maguire is as bad as he has shown. I think Utd are hopelessly exposed defensively, and Maguire is having a crisis in confidence. Maybe he is a shocker of a defender and he hid it before joining Utd, but I still hold some hope that if Utd got a good manager, things settle down, he could become an excellent player for the club.


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## Orikoru (Nov 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Hmmm, I'd think it would be hasty to give up on Greenwood at this stage. Yes, his form has dipped big time since he campaigning outside football. Maybe that is a factor, or maybe it is coincidence his campaigning happened at a time the coaching was failing all players in the squad. He still shows that potential that he could be one of the biggest attacking threats for Utd if he learnt how to complete a move. If he had good players around him, maybe he'd feel less obliged to take on the opposition by himself.

Pogba and Martial should have gone long ago. Perhaps Martial has just unfortunately been impacted by the same poor coaching and he is just further down the line Rashford seems to be on. However, Pogba is incredibly frustrating, and with all the rubbish that comes out through his agent, he should just go.

I'd have agreed with Lingard a few seasons ago, but he is an example of a player who gets a chance on loan, gets the platform to show his talent and gain confidence, and therefore someone who should be given another chance I think. Bit like Orikoru's point on Greenwood going on loan, albeit Greenwood is younger. Maguire, undoubtedly, has been absolutely shocking. Clearly, he will never be VVD, but VVD is probably the best CB in world, so there is no shame not being as good as him. However, I can't believe Maguire is as bad as he has shown. I think Utd are hopelessly exposed defensively, and Maguire is having a crisis in confidence. Maybe he is a shocker of a defender and he hid it before joining Utd, but I still hold some hope that if Utd got a good manager, things settle down, he could become an excellent player for the club.
		
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I was talking to some pals about Maguire, I do think he's overrated, wasn't worth the fee that was paid at all - I think he's reasonably solid, amazing in the air, but over-confident on the ball and possibly thinks he's more gifted than he really is, so he makes silly blunders. But my mate pointed out that having McTominay and Fred in front of you is not a great help in looking like a competent centre back, he's had far too much to do, which I think is a fair point as well. If United brought in a proper defensive midfielder - someone like Rice perhaps - and Varane gets fit alongside him, I think Maguire would start to look a lot better. As good as Van Dijk certainly is, he does also have Fabinho in front of him, and even Henderson who's better than anyone United have there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2021)

The reason why they play McTominey/Fred and Matic in front so much is because the two CBs they play in front off aren’t good enough so they are trying to protect them further 

They miss someone to link between the back line and whoever is at 10 - plus right now Fernandes is a passenger 

Wonder how they would be with a midfield three of 

Fred  Mc Tominey and VDB

With 

Rashford , Sancho , Ronaldo, Greenwood , Cavani forming a front three 

Liverpool , Chelsea and Man City play one solid DM with two number 8 type players alongside


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 23, 2021)

Everton will quite happily give Greenwood a bit of game time right now. Through the middle as well .

I think Utd have not been too smart this year on the squad front. They clearly have an excess in certain areas and they should have sent the likes of Greenwood out on loan for a season, as @Orikoru rightly pointed out. Get him played through the middle as a central striker, get minutes under his belt. He goes back a better player or they sell him on. Either way it helps manage the squad better, improves the younger ones. They are stagnating players right now, never good to do.


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## Orikoru (Nov 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The reason why they play McTominey/Fred and Matic in front so much is because the two CBs they play in front off aren’t good enough so they are trying to protect them further

They miss someone to link between the back line and whoever is at 10 - plus right now Fernandes is a passenger

Wonder how they would be with a midfield three of

Fred  Mc Tominey and VDB

With

Rashford , Sancho , Ronaldo, Greenwood , Cavani forming a front three

*Liverpool , Chelsea and Man City play one solid DM with two number 8 type players alongside*

Click to expand...

You've identified the problem with your own post. Man Utd don't have a good defensive midfielder. McTominay and Fred are box-to-box, and Matic is about 40 years old - or at least runs like he is. No one in their squad is good enough at protecting the defence. There is no Kanté/Fabinho/Rodri/Hojbjerg/Rice/Ndidi.


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## GB72 (Nov 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You've identified the problem with your own post. Man Utd don't have a good defensive midfielder. McTominay and Fred are box-to-box, and Matic is about 40 years old - or at least runs like he is. No one in their squad is good enough at protecting the defence. There is no Kanté/Fabinho/Rodri/Hojbjerg/Rice/Ndidi.
		
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Indeed, most of Maguire's good work at Leicester was done with Kante in front of him and I suspect he could make even the worst of defenses shine.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The reason why they play McTominey/Fred and Matic in front so much is because the two CBs they play in front off aren’t good enough so they are trying to protect them further

They miss someone to link between the back line and whoever is at 10 - plus right now Fernandes is a passenger

Wonder how they would be with a midfield three of

Fred  Mc Tominey and VDB

With

Rashford , Sancho , Ronaldo, Greenwood , Cavani forming a front three

Liverpool , Chelsea and Man City play one solid DM with two number 8 type players alongside
		
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Sort of agree, sort of don't. Certainly, the defense is hopelessly exposed, look very shaky, and so Ole played two defensive midfielders to help protect them. However, the two defensive midfielders are also hopelessly exposed (and that is TWO off them, not just one). Again, this could be partly due to poor communication and understanding with the back 4. However, is is largely because the forward players offer no support whatsover. None of them, at best they casually trot back, but there is never any purpose. It doesn't take every single forward to defend hard, but if Bruno, Greenwood and Rashford / Martial were able to assist the team when we didn't have the ball, everyone behind them would have a much easier life.

That is why I don't like to criticise individual players too much. If they've not been coached how they can work as a team, then I can see why any player would struggle. Even if you replaced any of them with a Rice / Fabinho / Matip / etc. At end of the day, although they may be playing teams of "inferior" players, they are still up against top professional sides that will find them out if there is no real team plan. And maybe that is a large problem United have had for a long time. They think they can simply rely on buying highly rated players. I have nothing wrong with that part of a philosophy, as long as they do not forget about the more important part - having a coaching staff who can manage a squad of players to play in the most effective way. and that are decisive when they need to be.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Hmmm, I'd think it would be hasty to give up on Greenwood at this stage. Yes, his form has dipped big time since he campaigning outside football. Maybe that is a factor, or maybe it is coincidence his campaigning happened at a time the coaching was failing all players in the squad. He still shows that potential that he could be one of the biggest attacking threats for Utd if he learnt how to complete a move. If he had good players around him, maybe he'd feel less obliged to take on the opposition by himself.

Pogba and Martial should have gone long ago. Perhaps Martial has just unfortunately been impacted by the same poor coaching and he is just further down the line Rashford seems to be on. However, Pogba is incredibly frustrating, and with all the rubbish that comes out through his agent, he should just go.

*I'd have agreed with Lingard a few seasons ago, but he is an example of a player who gets a chance on loan, gets the platform to show his talent and gain confidence, and therefore someone who should be given another chance I think*. Bit like Orikoru's point on Greenwood going on loan, albeit Greenwood is younger. Maguire, undoubtedly, has been absolutely shocking. Clearly, he will never be VVD, but VVD is probably the best CB in world, so there is no shame not being as good as him. However, I can't believe Maguire is as bad as he has shown. I think Utd are hopelessly exposed defensively, and Maguire is having a crisis in confidence. Maybe he is a shocker of a defender and he hid it before joining Utd, but I still hold some hope that if Utd got a good manager, things settle down, he could become an excellent player for the club.
		
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Maybe West Ham was Lingard's level? To my memory he's been average for the last 5 seasons. A good loan spell shouldnt have been enough for him to stay at yernited.  He's another one whose reputation is higher than his actual ability.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 23, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Maybe West Ham was Lingard's level? To my memory he's been average for the last 5 seasons. A good loan spell shouldnt have been enough for him to stay at yernited.  He's another one whose reputation is higher than his actual ability.
		
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I think United missed a trick not just flogging him in the summer. Could have cashed in for around 30m. Not mega money in the scheme of things for United but why not sell a player you have no intention of starting on a regular basis? Instead they have tried to get him to sign a new deal and now those talks have broken down........ mental management


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Maybe West Ham was Lingard's level? To my memory he's been average for the last 5 seasons. A good loan spell shouldnt have been enough for him to stay at yernited.  He's another one whose reputation is higher than his actual ability.
		
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Yes, he has been average, so maybe you are right. But, he played well in a Premier League team that seem to be well drilled, against Premier League opposition. He hasn't exactly had that at Man Utd in his career. At Man Utd he has been in a team full of egos but who combine into a dodgy team. At West Ham he grew in confidence and showed what he could be capable of, so I felt Utd and Ole may try and take advantage of that. They didn't / haven't.


Bdill93 said:



			I think United missed a trick not just flogging him in the summer. Could have cashed in for around 30m. Not mega money in the scheme of things for United but why not sell a player you have no intention of starting on a regular basis? Instead they have tried to get him to sign a new deal and now those talks have broken down........ mental management
		
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Sure, if Ole had no intention of giving him a good run in the team, cashing in on him would have made sense. It is these sort of issues that confuse the life out of me in terms of what management is trying to achieve, and who has a say in what.


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## Foxholer (Nov 23, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Maybe West Ham was Lingard's level? To my memory he's been average for the last 5 seasons. A good loan spell shouldnt have been enough for him to stay at yernited.  He's another one whose reputation is higher than his actual ability.
		
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Or maybe he was/is being simply 'managed' better!


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## BiMGuy (Nov 23, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Maybe West Ham was Lingard's level? To my memory he's been average for the last 5 seasons. A good loan spell shouldnt have been enough for him to stay at yernited.  He's another one whose reputation is higher than his actual ability.
		
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Is that the same West Ham that are currently above of ManU?


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## Papas1982 (Nov 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Is that the same West Ham that are currently above of ManU?
		
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Nothing like a quick snap shot of a situation to try and claim a cheap point. 

Not sure even the most ardent West Ham fan would dispute that the club's are at different levels.


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## Orikoru (Nov 23, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Nothing like a quick snap shot of a situation to try and claim a cheap point.

Not sure even the most ardent West Ham fan would dispute that the club's are at different levels.
		
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Still, it makes you think, maybe United should have a go at poaching West Ham's manager since he's done so well. Who's that again?


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## Papas1982 (Nov 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Still, it makes you think, maybe United should have a go at poaching West Ham's manager since he's done so well. Who's that again?
		
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Levels again. 

They have different aspirations. Moyes is a very good PL manager, but not what a top club should aspire to have imo.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 23, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Nothing like a quick snap shot of a situation to try and claim a cheap point.

Not sure even the most ardent West Ham fan would dispute that the club's are at different levels.
		
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Touchy 😁


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## Papas1982 (Nov 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Touchy 😁
		
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Might be true if I supported UTD.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2021)

So Carricks first step is dropping Fernandes to the bench , bringing in VDB , also Martial and Sancho to support Ronaldo


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## Billysboots (Nov 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Carricks first step is dropping Fernandes to the bench , bringing in VDB , also Martial and Sancho to support Ronaldo
		
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A front three all apparently playing in their best positions. A horribly out of form Fernandes dropped. Ditto Rashford. And Van de Beek gets a start.

Got some balls, Carrick.


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## Billysboots (Nov 23, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Levels again.

They have different aspirations. Moyes is a very good PL manager, but not what a top club should aspire to have imo.
		
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Spot on. It’s no surprise he’s been relatively successful at West Ham, a club of similar size and with similar aspirations to Everton. United was too big a leap, especially being the first post-Ferguson manager.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Carricks first step is dropping Fernandes to the bench , bringing in VDB , also Martial and Sancho to support Ronaldo
		
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Well, I certainly respect him for being bold. Bruno's form has not deserved a spot, whilst VDB and Sancho deserve a shot. Maybe it'll make no difference to form, but intrigued anyway. Perhaps it might show that Ole really was scared to drop certain players, and the coaching staff did not necessarily agree with this.


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2021)

Ronaldo playing deeper than Kane does here so far


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## Slime (Nov 23, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Hindsight will see what happens, *but I'm happy to bed Maguire *doesn't go for 30m before he retires.....
		
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Really?  
Does your missus know?


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## Slime (Nov 23, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 yeah alright, *its his teamates fault*🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

When things are going wrong 1st and foremost you take responsibility for your own actions and performances.

It's basic stuff like controlling the ball. His 3rd touch on saturday  was a real heavy one that led him to foul Cleverley. He does it so often. You can't blame  Fred for that😉

I think your Yernited bias is clouding your judgement on his actual ability.
		
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I didn't actually say that, I merely pointed out that they offered no help when they should have done.
Maguire cocked up, no doubt.

Oh, and my bias has never been in doubt, I've admitted that on many occasions.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Carricks first step is dropping Fernandes to the bench , bringing in VDB , also Martial and Sancho to support Ronaldo
		
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You mean Ronaldo's first step😁


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## GG26 (Nov 23, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Indeed, most of Maguire's good work at Leicester was done with Kante in front of him and I suspect he could make even the worst of defenses shine.
		
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It was Ndidi.  Kante was already at Chelsea when Leicester signed Maguire, but the same principle applies.

in Maguire’s first season he had a habit of taking the ball deep into the opposition half, losing it and leaving Morgan and Simpson to try and deal with a fast counter, often with predictable results.  Second season he stuck to his own half except for set pieces.  He did look better on the ball then than he does now.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			A front three all apparently playing in their best positions. A horribly out of form Fernandes dropped. Ditto Rashford. And Van de Beek gets a start.

Got some balls, Carrick.
		
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At the end of the day he knows Poch is coming so why not be brave (or reckless). Got through the first half ok and see what happens when the subs start coming on. Still look fragile at the back


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## Papas1982 (Nov 23, 2021)

Slime said:



			Really?  
Does your missus know?
		
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I’m happily single.
live and let live I say 😂😂😂


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2021)

Given the recent results, a 0-0 isnt a bad result all things considered


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2021)

Proper smash and grab 

Sat deep most game looking to sneak something

Sancho has been lively tonight , it’s not an easy watch but going to effective


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## pokerjoke (Nov 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			Ronaldo playing deeper than Kane does here so far 

Click to expand...

Don’t worry he knows what he’s doing ⚽️


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## Slime (Nov 23, 2021)

You just can't keep a good goat quiet!


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## Slime (Nov 23, 2021)

They'll probably give Carrick a three year contract if we win this!


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2021)

Smash and grab or not, getting the job done and as everyone says (especially when a manager is sacked) its a results game. Wouldn't be the first English side to sneak a dodgy 1-0 away from home in Europe. Get the job done whatever it takes


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2021)

Slime said:



			They'll probably give Carrick a three year contract if we win this!
		
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🙏

We can all hope 😁

So why hasn’t Sancho been playing all season 🤷‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2021)

Rashford has changed the game, gave Yernited an out ball. 

Winning ugly in Europe is nothing to be scoffed at.


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2021)

Jamie Carragher  @Carra23
now
Man Utd might not thank me, but get the contract out put it on the table & let him sign it, let him right whatever numbers he wants, let him sign the contract. Carrick’s at the wheel man! #VILMUN @ChampionsLeague

lol


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## Billysboots (Nov 23, 2021)

Sancho has been outstanding.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 23, 2021)

Bringing Mata on for 10 seconds,what’s the point.
Imo so disrespectful to a professional footballer.


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Sancho has been outstanding.
		
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will only get better now youd think


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Proper smash and grab

Sat deep most game looking to sneak something

Sancho has been lively tonight , it’s not an easy watch but going to effective
		
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Team at an all time low in terms of confidence. Playing away from home in Europe. They've put in a solid performance, they look to have defended as a team, with a gameplan. They brought fresh attacking players on at a decent time, and a very good win in the end. 

Tells us very little what will happen with these players under Carrick. But got to give them credit for what they did. Not like they were hanging on by a thread. Sure, DeGea had to make a couple of decent saves, but that happens. 

Also great to see Sancho looking pretty lively, and score in the end.


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## Slime (Nov 23, 2021)

The biggest shock for me was that Fred had a good game!


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## Billysboots (Nov 23, 2021)

Slime said:



			The biggest shock for me was that Fred had a good game!
		
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He might actually be Brazilian after all.


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## Billysboots (Nov 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Team at an all time low in terms of confidence. Playing away from home in Europe. They've put in a solid performance, they look to have defended as a team, with a gameplan. They brought fresh attacking players on at a decent time, and a very good win in the end.

Tells us very little what will happen with these players under Carrick. But got to give them credit for what they did. Not like they were hanging on by a thread. Sure, DeGea had to make a couple of decent saves, but that happens.

Also great to see Sancho looking pretty lively, and score in the end.
		
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Spot on. Have to give credit where it’s due.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Team at an all time low in terms of confidence. Playing away from home in Europe. They've put in a solid performance, they look to have defended as a team, with a gameplan. They brought fresh attacking players on at a decent time, and a very good win in the end.

Tells us very little what will happen with these players under Carrick. But got to give them credit for what they did. Not like they were hanging on by a thread. Sure, DeGea had to make a couple of decent saves, but that happens.

Also great to see Sancho looking pretty lively, and score in the end.
		
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Certainly got to give the credit - De Gea made some great saves to keep the team in it , made some attacking changes especially with Rashford which pushed the team up a little 

Sancho was the player that was seen in Germany- pace , going past players and putting a good ball in. Ronaldo was all over the pitch trying to get things going. And Fred seems like he has learned something from Fabinho whilst away on international duty


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2021)

So you can hand ball it but it’s ok if you aren’t the person to score 🤷‍♂️ Seems a strange rule , great strike


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you can hand ball it but it’s ok if you aren’t the person to score 🤷‍♂️ Seems a strange rule , great strike
		
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Don't worry, the rule will change next week. Will probably be an automatic red card to anyone who handles in box, whether deliberate or not.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2021)

Chelsea doing ok so far. Great strike for the goal. Job half done. Need to see it out


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2021)

James or TAA for England?


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## nickjdavis (Nov 23, 2021)

Chelsea rampant....if they keep on like this for the rest of the season then it will be a struggle for anyone to take the title away from them....whether they can win the ECL as well is another matter....but they are head and shoulders above anything else in the Premier League.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 23, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			He might actually be Brazilian after all.
		
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There is hope for Joelinton yet then.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 23, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			James or TAA for England?
		
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I'm not watching the football so I don't know if James has made a rick but I'd take him. He has such a strong all round game. It's not a criticism of TAA, I just thing James is currently better.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 23, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			There is hope for Joelinton yet then. 

Click to expand...

No, there really isn't ☹🤣


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## Billysboots (Nov 23, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			There is hope for Joelinton yet then. 

Click to expand...

Steady on 😉


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## Tashyboy (Nov 24, 2021)

Utd looking for a part time manager 😳


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## Neilds (Nov 24, 2021)

The real United (Rotherham United) making it 15 games unbeaten in all competitions and going top of League one. 
Going to see them at the weekend at Oxford (can only get to games in SW area) and really looking forward to it.  They are top scorers in the division, averaging almost 2 goals a game and have only conceded 13 goals in 18 games.  They are taking the cup competitions seriously as well as players try to prove a point to get into the starting 11 on a Saturday - 3 EFL Trophy matches, 15 goals scored - and this included a 5-0 win against Man City U21s.
Playing good football and a great atmosphere around the club.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 24, 2021)

Neilds said:



			The real United (Rotherham United) making it 15 games unbeaten in all competitions and going top of League one. 
Going to see them at the weekend at Oxford (can only get to games in SW area) and really looking forward to it.  They are top scorers in the division, averaging almost 2 goals a game and have only conceded 13 goals in 18 games.  They are taking the cup competitions seriously as well as players try to prove a point to get into the starting 11 on a Saturday - 3 EFL Trophy matches, 15 goals scored - and this included a 5-0 win against Man City U21s.
Playing good football and a great atmosphere around the club.
		
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Ah the Millers. Fond memories of them back in the 70,s and 80’s when following the Stags. A memorable evening in Tivolis nightclub 
( overlooking Rotherham fc )sticking to the carpet with me shoes 😳😖😂


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## Neilds (Nov 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Ah the Millers. Fond memories of them back in the 70,s and 80’s when following the Stags. A memorable evening in Tivolis nightclub
( overlooking Rotherham fc )sticking to the carpet with me shoes 😳😖😂
		
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Tivolis was a place of legends, bit of a dump though!!!  Not sure if it is still there as Millmoor isn't the home of the Millers anymore - left in 2008 due to financial problems and went to Don Valley Stadium in Sheffield for 4/5 years.  Soulless athletics stadium with a rubbish picth but now back home in Rotherham with a great stadium that is hosting some of the Women's Euros next year and has also hosted England u21s, etc


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## Beezerk (Nov 24, 2021)

Neilds said:



			The real United (Rotherham United) making it 15 games unbeaten in all competitions and going top of League one. 
Going to see them at the weekend at Oxford (can only get to games in SW area) and really looking forward to it.  They are top scorers in the division, averaging almost 2 goals a game and have only conceded 13 goals in 18 games.  They are taking the cup competitions seriously as well as players try to prove a point to get into the starting 11 on a Saturday - 3 EFL Trophy matches, 15 goals scored - and this included a 5-0 win against Man City U21s.
Playing good football and a great atmosphere around the club.
		
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However we still managed to hump you lot at home a couple of months ago 💪🦉 😉
My brother lives down south and goes to a lot of the Rotherham games down there, you’ve probably seen him at the games, looks a bit of a daft lad 😂


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			James or TAA for England?
		
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James definitely


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## Neilds (Nov 24, 2021)

Beezerk said:



*However we still managed to hump you lot at home a couple of months ago* 💪🦉 😉
My brother lives down south and goes to a lot of the Rotherham games down there, you’ve probably seen him at the games, looks a bit of a daft lad 😂
		
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Games from the Championship don't count - we never do too well in the higher division!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			James or TAA for England?
		
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Depends on what formation he is playing , who the CB’s are and the opposition 

Both are superb players with different levels of skills 

James appears better suited to a wingback role , TAA as a right back playing alongside quick CB’s 

Chelsea prob wouldn’t swap James for TAA and vice versa for Liverpool fans 

Seeing how Southgate plays it will be James 

But imo if both were sold - TAA would go for more and to someone like Madrid/Barcelona etc


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## Bdill93 (Nov 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Depends on what formation he is playing , who the CB’s are and the opposition

Both are superb players with different levels of skills

James appears better suited to a wingback role , TAA as a right back playing alongside quick CB’s

Chelsea prob wouldn’t swap James for TAA and vice versa for Liverpool fans

Seeing how Southgate plays it will be James

But imo if both were sold - TAA would go for more and to someone like Madrid/Barcelona etc
		
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England dont have the same CB talent as Liverpool. TAA is absolute class but not the defender for England imo.

James for England for me.


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## Beezerk (Nov 24, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Games from the Championship don't count - we never do too well in the higher division!!!
		
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👀
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58209812
😬🤣


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## Neilds (Nov 24, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			👀
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58209812
😬🤣
		
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OH NO!!!!!  YOU@RE ONE OF THEM!!!!!!!

I saw your location and thought maybe Middlesborough from last year.  Didn't realise you you had escaped from the local institution


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## Swango1980 (Nov 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Depends on what formation he is playing , who the CB’s are and the opposition

Both are superb players with different levels of skills

James appears better suited to a wingback role , TAA as a right back playing alongside quick CB’s

Chelsea prob wouldn’t swap James for TAA and vice versa for Liverpool fans

Seeing how Southgate plays it will be James

But imo if both were sold - TAA would go for more and to someone like Madrid/Barcelona etc
		
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Both have superb attributes. But, the more I see James, it just looks like he has pretty much everything. He looks like a very solid defender, maybe a great defender, but he is now showing great attacking depth. Maybe the world needs another season or 2 to see how he develops, but if he continues as he is then I see no reason why he wouldn't command a higher transfer fee than TAA by the time he is 23 (TAA's age now)


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2021)

The James/TAA argument ties in very much with the OGS and United thread. Both James and TAA have benefitted from managers that see a player and know his correct position and plays them there and allows them to develop their understanding of the requirements of the role and then grow and add other aspects like James and his greater attacking depth. How many players under OGS or indeed the previous incumbents managed to do that? I think by and large Southgate at England has done the same and knows where players operate best and so tries to use them in the correct position


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## pokerjoke (Nov 24, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			James or TAA for England?
		
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Southgate did an interview recently and basically said his RB would be a defender first and foremost and an attacking RB second,that’s basically counts TAA out because he can’t defend.
Best crosser of a ball since Beckham but that’s not enough in today’s football.
Same scenario for AWB but the other way around and atm not depending well so will probably never play for England.
It may well be the opposition that decides between TAA and James and Walker but for TAA to start the opposition will have to be weak.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 24, 2021)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/16831718/rice-raps-ice-baby-west-ham/
😂😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/16831718/rice-raps-ice-baby-west-ham/
😂😂😂
		
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I heard the guy running 'the room' yesterday on the radio. Sounded good fun and fair play to Rice for going on. He had said he would but the bloke wasn't quite sure if he actually would.


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## davemc1 (Nov 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Southgate did an interview recently and basically said his RB would be a defender first and foremost and an attacking RB second,that’s basically counts TAA out because he can’t defend.
Best crosser of a ball since Beckham but that’s not enough in today’s football.
Same scenario for AWB but the other way around and atm not depending well so will probably never play for England.
It may well be the opposition that decides between TAA and James and Walker but for TAA to start the opposition will have to be weak.
		
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There is so much nonsense in this post. He’s an integral part in a team that’s won a league and European cup. Is that not enough in todays football? 😆

And don’t get me started on your last sentence 🤦‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Nov 24, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Tivolis was a place of legends, bit of a dump though!!!  Not sure if it is still there as Millmoor isn't the home of the Millers anymore - left in 2008 due to financial problems and went to Don Valley Stadium in Sheffield for 4/5 years.  Soulless athletics stadium with a rubbish picth but now back home in Rotherham with a great stadium that is hosting some of the Women's Euros next year and has also hosted England u21s, etc
		
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I remember tivolis well. Missis T got chatted up by a fat bald bloke. I had tears rolling down me cheeks. She told me to get lost using stronger words. 😂


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## Tashyboy (Nov 24, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			There is so much nonsense in this post. He’s an integral part in a team that’s won a league and European cup. Is that not enough in todays football? 😆

And don’t get me started on your last sentence 🤦‍♂️
		
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Unfortunately the golden waistcoats one prefers defenders more than attacking players. It seems that attacking defenders, well SouthGate  has never heard of them. And that is to TAA and Englands loss.


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## davemc1 (Nov 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Unfortunately the golden waistcoats one prefers defenders more than attacking players. It seems that attacking defenders, well SouthGate  has never heard of them. And that is to TAA and Englands loss.
		
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Yeah you’re right, but that’s England, and the less he plays for them the better imo

But, to say he can’t defend, or what he offers isn’t enough and that he can only play against weak opposition is ludicrous really.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 24, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Yeah you’re right, but that’s England, and the less he plays for them the better imo

But, to say he can’t defend, or what he offers isn’t enough and that he can only play against weak opposition is ludicrous really.
		
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I was on about England
What he does for Liverpool is what Klopp asks him to do and he does it very well,but he’s not a good defender imo.
Southgate wants a defender first so his England appearances,if he gets picked will be against weaker opposition.
He offers enough for Liverpool but not for England.
Disagree all you want,but Southgate agrees with me and Klopp doesn’t.


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## Hobbit (Nov 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Southgate did an interview recently and basically said his RB would be a defender first and foremost and an attacking RB second,that’s basically counts TAA out because he can’t defend.
Best crosser of a ball since Beckham but that’s not enough in today’s football.
Same scenario for AWB but the other way around and atm not depending well so will probably never play for England.
It may well be the opposition that decides between TAA and James and Walker but for TAA to start the opposition will have to be weak.
		
Click to expand...

I’m no lover of Southgate, and certainly didn’t enjoy his brand of football at Middlesbrough, but if his system isn’t a fit for TAA… sounds sensible not to pick him.

The national team can’t put 11 players on the pitch that are as good as Liverpool or City, who have the benefit of picking top players from several countries, hence what we see including the tactics. It might not be pretty but it’s proven to be effective.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Yeah you’re right, but that’s England, and the less he plays for them the better imo

But, to say *he can’t defend, *or what he offers isn’t enough and that he can only play against weak opposition is ludicrous really.
		
Click to expand...

👍

https://www.givemesport.com/1697177...-best-among-englands-euro-2020-rightbacks?amp


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## Papas1982 (Nov 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			👍

https://www.givemesport.com/1697177...-best-among-englands-euro-2020-rightbacks?amp

Click to expand...

Good old stats……
The most common issues with TAA are positional, which is harder to show with stats. 

For me I’d still choose him (RJ certainly getting closer though) but it’s certainly easier to have confidence you can deal with the occasions he’s found out of position when your defence contains VVD and not Slabhead.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 24, 2021)

I don’t need google or stats to see TAA can’t defend I see it most weeks on Tv.
I bet that bird in the pics defends better


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## Beezerk (Nov 24, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I remember tivolis well. Missis T got chatted up by a fat bald bloke. I had tears rolling down me cheeks. She told me to get lost using stronger words. 😂
		
Click to expand...

£15 and all you could drink, got in a few tangles in there 😬


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2021)

Wow that’s a pretty special strike 😲


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463617514437545998


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## BrianM (Nov 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			👍

https://www.givemesport.com/1697177...-best-among-englands-euro-2020-rightbacks?amp

Click to expand...

TAA is a great player, no doubt, but Klopp gets the best out of him and Robertson in the system he plays, they are better attacking than defending.
As an example I hope, you’d say Winterburn and Dixon were proper defenders but didn’t have half what TAA and Robertson give going forward…..


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2021)

City v PSG was an absolute superb match.
Great watch.


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## davemc1 (Nov 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I was on about England
What he does for Liverpool is what Klopp asks him to do and he does it very well,but he’s not a good defender imo.
Southgate wants a defender first so his England appearances,if he gets picked will be against weaker opposition.
He offers enough for Liverpool but not for England.
Disagree all you want,but Southgate agrees with me and Klopp doesn’t.
		
Click to expand...

If you agree with Southgates philosophy over Klopps then your more troubled than I thought 😜


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## 4LEX (Nov 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow that’s a pretty special strike 😲


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463617514437545998

Click to expand...

That's what's known as tekkers, well it was back in the day. What a strike.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 24, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			If you agree with Southgates philosophy over Klopps then your more troubled than I thought 😜
		
Click to expand...

To be honest I make my own mind up
Don’t need stats
Don’t need google either


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## 4LEX (Nov 24, 2021)

As for TAA or James, has anyone seen how good Kyle Walker has been in the last year? He went down the plughole for a bit but he's been incredible since January and was the best defender at the Euros. No way does he not start in Qatar.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow that’s a pretty special strike 😲


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463617514437545998

Click to expand...

I was right behind it. Immense.

Thiago is a proper footballer btw. Classy.


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## larmen (Nov 25, 2021)

The sacked Norwich manager, how good is he? Might have an outside chance to the Werder Bremen job.

Not that good at buying players, paid 17 million to us for Sargent and Rashica this summer.
But can he get a young team to perform and improve players?


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			👍

https://www.givemesport.com/1697177...-best-among-englands-euro-2020-rightbacks?amp

Click to expand...

Stats 😬


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 25, 2021)

4 good results for the PL Teams in the CL this week with the City and Chelsea games being a superb watch.

Wouldn’t surprise me if we had another all PL final this year.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 25, 2021)

4LEX said:



			As for TAA or James, has anyone seen how good Kyle Walker has been in the last year? He went down the plughole for a bit but he's been incredible since January and was the best defender at the Euros. No way does he not start in Qatar.
		
Click to expand...

I would guess that he'll play at centre back on the right hand side of the three with either James or TAA as the wingback. Personally I think that if he's going with that system then he should pick TAA as having Walker in with his pace gives more cover for TAA to get forward.


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## Orikoru (Nov 25, 2021)

It horses for courses basically. If we're playing wing backs it's probably James since he does that for his club - with Walker in the back three. If we're going back four against a team we should beat then Trent is the best option as he'll give you loads of attacking output from there.

The one nobody has mentioned is Trippier. Are we assuming he's the one sacrificed now that James has properly emerged? I also found Trips to be the best of both since he defends well and has a great cross on him as well, but just doesn't have the pace that the others offer.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Nov 25, 2021)

Can't believe I'm posting in this thread.
Anyway, Arsenal not going to have much of a transfer budget after the owner pays St Louis 790 million as a settlement for moving the Rams to LA.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2021)

saving_par said:



			Can't believe I'm posting in this thread.
Anyway, Arsenal not going to have much of a transfer budget after the owner pays St Louis 790 million as a settlement for moving the Rams to LA.
		
Click to expand...

Wowwwwwww

Now thats money!!

Wonder what the Raiders will pay Oakland!


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## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			4 good results for the PL Teams in the CL this week with the City and Chelsea games being a superb watch.

*Wouldn’t surprise me if we had another all PL final this year*.
		
Click to expand...

Im right with you. We're starting to dominate the end of the tournament with English teams - long may that continue!

Bayern probably the only credible threat! Maybe Ajax.. time will tell on that one!


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## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2021)

Looks like Arteta would like Wenger back at Arsenal, hold his hand a bit...sorry, I mean be a great help to the club.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2021)

So Ralf Rangnick for Interim Manager at Utd 

Did well at Hoffenhiem but more recently been more of a director of football at red Bulls  and then stepping in when needed 

Wonder if he will stay on as director of football after


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## fundy (Nov 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Ralf Rangnick for Interim Manager at Utd 

Did well at Hoffenhiem but more recently been more of a director of football at red Bulls  and then stepping in when needed 

Wonder if he will stay on as director of football after
		
Click to expand...


as a non Man U fan im disappointed, like Rangnick


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## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Ralf Rangnick for Interim Manager at Utd

Did well at Hoffenhiem but more recently been more of a director of football at red Bulls  and then stepping in when needed

*Wonder if he will stay on as director of football after*

Click to expand...

Potentially, maybe that is part of the long term plan. Not just to get an interim manager in and bin him in the summer, but to bring him in as interim manager now, and then have him as a leading coach (like McClaren to Fergie sort of thing) or director of football. Hard to tell with United. I wonder who they interviewed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2021)

fundy said:



			as a non Man U fan im disappointed, like Rangnick
		
Click to expand...

yeah he has been rated well for a while but never really been given a big job so got a great chance now


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## Neilds (Nov 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Ralf Rangnick for Interim Manager at Utd

Did well at Hoffenhiem but more recently been more of a director of football at red Bulls  and then stepping in when needed

*Wonder if he will stay on as director of football after*

Click to expand...

Isn’t that Fergie’s job?🤔


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## Billysboots (Nov 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Potentially, maybe that is part of the long term plan. Not just to get an interim manager in and bin him in the summer, but to bring him in as interim manager now, and then have him as a leading coach (like McClaren to Fergie sort of thing) or director of football. Hard to tell with United. I wonder who they interviewed.
		
Click to expand...

The suggestion I have heard is that his role beyond next summer formed part of the discussions. We have been crying out for a football man further up the chain for years, and this fella certainly ticks the box.

A huge stride in the right direction for me.


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## Orikoru (Nov 25, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Isn’t that Fergie’s job?🤔
		
Click to expand...

No I think his official title now is "the ghost of Christmas past".


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## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The suggestion I have heard is that his role beyond next summer formed part of the discussions. We have been crying out for a football man further up the chain for years, and this fella certainly ticks the box.

A huge stride in the right direction for me.
		
Click to expand...

Just been watching a couple of interviews with him. He certainly sounds impressive, I'll give him that. I could never imagine Ole talking about football tactics in such a detailed, articulate manner.


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## Billysboots (Nov 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Just been watching a couple of interviews with him. He certainly sounds impressive, I'll give him that. I could never imagine Ole talking about football tactics in such a detailed, articulate manner.
		
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I could never imagine Olé talking about tactics full stop!


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I could never imagine Olé talking about tactics full stop!
		
Click to expand...

He gave a great talk on tactics the other day. He said "I like the green ones as they are a mild mint, but not the white ones as they're too strong. I also like the orange ones. I haven't tried the cola ones yet. Oh sorry, I thought you said tic tacs".


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 25, 2021)

Think United have finally woken up and smelt the coffee and bringing Rangnick in short term and then giving him a longer term deal behind the scenes shows a degree of longer term planning (way too late) https://www.skysports.com/football/...to-becoming-manchester-united-interim-manager


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## BrianM (Nov 25, 2021)

Where are all the Spurs fans tonight 😂😂


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## adam6177 (Nov 25, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Where are all the Spurs fans tonight 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

It's an interesting discussion.... I wonder what early thoughts on Conte are. Normally a new manager gets a reaction.... Seems not so much this time.


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## BrianM (Nov 25, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			It's an interesting discussion.... I wonder what early thoughts on Conte are. Normally a new manager gets a reaction.... Seems not so much this time.
		
Click to expand...

I like Conte, but thought they were terrible at the weekend even though they won.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Where are all the Spurs fans tonight 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Mura are a tough team, top Slovenian side since they were founded in 2012. And, if their 3,782 capacity stadium was full, hostile atmosphere for Spurs.


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## Jensen (Nov 25, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Mura are a tough team, top Slovenian side since they were founded in 2012. And, if their 3,782 capacity stadium was full, hostile atmosphere for Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣


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## Jensen (Nov 25, 2021)

I’m not overwhelmed by the Conte appointment. He may bring passion, but his style of football is typical Italian - not to get beat (didn’t work tonight though 😀).
Not really for the purest.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 25, 2021)

When I saw that it was NS Mura V Tottenham tonight I had to google the opposition. It turns out that they're a small team from north London, also known as Spurs, and the England captain plays for them.


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## Jensen (Nov 25, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			When I saw that it was NS Mura V Tottenham tonight I had to google the opposition. It turns out that they're a small team from north London, also known as Spurs, and the England captain plays for them.
		
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention that they have a prat for a chairman called Daniel Levy


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## Orikoru (Nov 25, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			It's an interesting discussion.... I wonder what early thoughts on Conte are. Normally a new manager gets a reaction.... Seems not so much this time.
		
Click to expand...

Meh, our squad players are mostly duffers which is part of the problem. Dele, can't be bothered, Ndombele, can't be bothered, Gil, looks lightweight, Sanchez, Sunday League player, Doherty, a pale shadow of the player at Wolves, Sessegnon, finally gets a chance and gets himself sent off. What can you really say? It's been clear for a while an overhaul is needed.


BrianM said:



			I like Conte, but thought they were terrible at the weekend even though they won.
		
Click to expand...

We improved immeasurably in the second half though, so the manager clearly had an impact. Nuno didn't manage that and neither did José by the end. It's still not great but you can't expect miracles until we've at least made it to the next window, see if he can do a bit of a reshuffle.

(Disclaimer: I didn't bother watching tonight's game anyway so I can't comment on the specifics of that.)


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## Fade and Die (Nov 25, 2021)

From


Orikoru said:



			Meh, our squad players are mostly duffers which is part of the problem. Dele, can't be bothered, Ndombele, can't be bothered, Gil, looks lightweight, Sanchez, Sunday League player, Doherty, a pale shadow of the player at Wolves, Sessegnon, finally gets a chance and gets himself sent off. What can you really say? It's been clear for a while an overhaul is needed.

We improved immeasurably in the second half though, so the manager clearly had an impact. Nuno didn't manage that and neither did José by the end. It's still not great but you can't expect miracles until we've at least made it to the next window, see if he can do a bit of a reshuffle.

(Disclaimer:* I didn't bother watching tonight's game anyway* so I can't comment on the specifics of that.)
		
Click to expand...

Since you missed it here is a flavour of the game from the BBC report….

“Kane gave a glimpse of that famed predatory instinct with his well-taken chipped equaliser. But for the rest of the time he was a lumbering shell of his former self, full of poor touches and fluffed shots.”

😳😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 26, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Meh, our squad players are mostly duffers which is part of the problem. Dele, can't be bothered, Ndombele, can't be bothered, Gil, looks lightweight, Sanchez, Sunday League player, Doherty, a pale shadow of the player at Wolves, Sessegnon, finally gets a chance and gets himself sent off. What can you really say? It's been clear for a while an overhaul is needed.

We improved immeasurably in the second half though, so the manager clearly had an impact. Nuno didn't manage that and neither did José by the end. It's still not great but you can't expect miracles until we've at least made it to the next window, see if he can do a bit of a reshuffle.

(Disclaimer: I didn't bother watching tonight's game anyway so I can't comment on the specifics of that.)
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if Sessignon regrets leaving Fulham so early? He would have got PL experience last season and continued to build his reputation the season before in the promotion campaign. Hardly been on the pitch at Spurs and another very good player that is still young but now stagnating.


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## Rlburnside (Nov 26, 2021)

Jensen said:



			You forgot to mention that they have a prat for a chairman called Daniel Levy
		
Click to expand...

Bit surprised you say that about Levy, he has overseen the building of the best stadium in Europe. 

A astute businessman who has tried to keep a cap on the ridiculous wages that other clubs pay, downside of that is he didn’t invest when we were doing well under Poch, but was restricted that time with the plans for the new ground , but he has made mistakes in the past

As for last nights results it’s clear Conte will have to have a clear out of the a lot of the squad players. 

I’m more positive now we have Conte he’s not going to stand for the substandard play from a lot of players.  

It won’t be surprising to Spurs fans who will be going hopefully in January, and it’s going to be interesting to see the type of players he brings in

It’s going to take time


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## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2021)

Might still be hope for Spurs yet, they've lodged an official complaint to UEFA about their loss last night. Apparently the plumber playing in goal for Mura wasn't Gas Safe registered.


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## Jensen (Nov 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Might still be hope for Spurs yet, they've lodged an official complaint to UEFA about their loss last night. Apparently the plumber playing in goal for Mura wasn't Gas Safe registered.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Bdill93 (Nov 26, 2021)

Looking forward to heading down to Palace tomorrow.

A tough to beat team at present - much like Brighton last week - but again, a game Villa need to win to get themselves back into the mix a bit. 

Will be a good match up for sure and my last away day for a while as my son is due quite soon!

Up the Villa!


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## Billysboots (Nov 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Might still be hope for Spurs yet, they've lodged an official complaint to UEFA about their loss last night. Apparently the plumber playing in goal for Mura wasn't Gas Safe registered.
		
Click to expand...

Even if he wasn’t, Spurs couldn’t find any leaks.


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## Rlburnside (Nov 26, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Looking forward to heading down to Palace tomorrow.

A tough to beat team at present - much like Brighton last week - but again, a game Villa need to win to get themselves back into the mix a bit.

Will be a good match up for sure and my last away day for a while as my son is due quite soon!

Up the Villa!
		
Click to expand...

Many moons ago when I used to go to matches regularly I was always impressed with the amount of Villa fans that would go to away matches and make a lot of noise. 

Had a soft spot for Villa ever since plus they had a great strip👍


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## fundy (Nov 26, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Many moons ago when I used to go to matches regularly I was always impressed with the amount of Villa fans that would go to away matches and make a lot of noise. 

Had a soft spot for Villa ever since plus they had a great strip👍
		
Click to expand...


Funny how we have differing views based on one historic experience lol

Semi final at Villa park midweek and came out to find the car had been clamped lol, never been a fan since!!!


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## LincolnShep (Nov 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Might still be hope for Spurs yet, they've lodged an official complaint to UEFA about their loss last night. Apparently the plumber playing in goal for Mura wasn't Gas Safe registered.
		
Click to expand...

I only came here to see this.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2021)

LincolnShep said:



			I only came here to see this.
		
Click to expand...

It is an opportunity for you to bring Lincoln City into the conversation, dilute the chat on Liverpool, Man Utd (and now Spurs)


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## Bdill93 (Nov 26, 2021)

Rlburnside said:



			Many moons ago when I used to go to matches regularly I was always impressed with the amount of Villa fans that would go to away matches and make a lot of noise.

Had a soft spot for Villa ever since plus they had a great strip👍
		
Click to expand...

We do have brilliant away support. Its taken me years to build up my away criteria but now I dont miss a game! Cant remember the last time we didnt sell out the away end!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2021)

Interesting play-off draw for World Cup from Europe.

*PATH A*

*Semifinals*
Scotland vs. Ukraine
Wales vs. Austria

*Final*
The winners of Wales vs. Austria will be at home in the final

*PATH B*

*Semifinals*
Russia vs. Poland
Sweden vs. Czech Republic

*Final*
The winners of Russia vs. Poland will be at home in the final

*PATH C*

*Semifinals*
Italy vs. North Macedonia
Portugal vs. Turkey

*Final*
The winners of Portugal vs. Turkey will be at home in the final

The semifinals will be played on Thursday, March 24, with the finals on Tuesday, March 29.

Possibility of a Wales v Scotland and Portugal v Italy play off finals with only 1 from each getting through.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2021)

There will be some tension in those finals. Great for the neutral, awful for fans of those involved.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There will be some tension in those finals. Great for the neutral, awful for fans of those involved.
		
Click to expand...

Wait and see how much stick Southgate gets if Italy don’t make it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Wait and see how much stick Southgate gets if Italy don’t make it.

Click to expand...

It's remarkable if Italy don't get there when you consider the unbeaten run they went on.


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## larmen (Nov 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Interesting play-off draw for World Cup from Europe.

*PATH A*

*Semifinals*
Scotland vs. Ukraine
Wales vs. Austria

*Final*
The winners of Wales vs. Austria will be at home in the final

*PATH B*

*Semifinals*
Russia vs. Poland
Sweden vs. Czech Republic

*Final*
The winners of Russia vs. Poland will be at home in the final

*PATH C*

*Semifinals*
Italy vs. North Macedonia
Portugal vs. Turkey

*Final*
The winners of Portugal vs. Turkey will be at home in the final

The semifinals will be played on Thursday, March 24, with the finals on Tuesday, March 29.

Possibility of a Wales v Scotland and Portugal v Italy play off finals with only 1 from each getting through.
		
Click to expand...

We want one good team to miss out, just to be able to point at them. Usually it’s Netherlands or England, this time it is Italy or Portugal. At least one of them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 26, 2021)

It will be strange if either Italy or Portugal don't qualify. Not sure which would provide the bigger threat. Perhaps Portugal with Ronaldho and his sublime goalscoring record. I thing Italy are beatable and I don't think Southgate would make the same mistakes again.


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## Beezerk (Nov 26, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Interesting play-off draw for World Cup from Europe.

*PATH A*

*Semifinals*
Scotland vs. Ukraine
Wales vs. Austria

*Final*
The winners of Wales vs. Austria will be at home in the final

*PATH B*

*Semifinals*
Russia vs. Poland
Sweden vs. Czech Republic

*Final*
The winners of Russia vs. Poland will be at home in the final

*PATH C*

*Semifinals*
Italy vs. North Macedonia
Portugal vs. Turkey

*Final*
The winners of Portugal vs. Turkey will be at home in the final

The semifinals will be played on Thursday, March 24, with the finals on Tuesday, March 29.

Possibility of a Wales v Scotland and Portugal v Italy play off finals with only 1 from each getting through.
		
Click to expand...

Ukraine vs Austria should be a better 👌


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Ukraine vs Austria should be a better 👌
		
Click to expand...

Posting in here and the Adele thread on the same day! You must be part of The Footy Crew?


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## 4LEX (Nov 26, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It will be strange if either Italy or Portugal don't qualify. Not sure which would provide the bigger threat. Perhaps Portugal with Ronaldho and his sublime goalscoring record. I thing Italy are beatable and I don't think Southgate would make the same mistakes again.
		
Click to expand...

He's already made the same mistake twice. He'll make it again. Croatia, Portugal and Italy are similar sides, fairly defensive with quality in midfield. England would struggle against all three as we'd sit back and get overrun. The only way England win a trophy under Southgate is via a desperate 1-0 or penalty shoot out.


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## 4LEX (Nov 26, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I wonder if Sessignon regrets leaving Fulham so early? He would have got PL experience last season and continued to build his reputation the season before in the promotion campaign. Hardly been on the pitch at Spurs and another very good player that is still young but now stagnating.
		
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No he's a bluffer out for the money and minimal effort. He should've relished a big move and improved.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 27, 2021)

Quiet on here today,I suppose it’s because none of the big teams are playing till tomorrow.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 27, 2021)

Steven Gerrards Claret and Blue Army!!!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Steven Gerrards Claret and Blue Army!!!!!
		
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Not a bad start for him 

Race for the 4th is going to be interesting


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## Bdill93 (Nov 27, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Steven Gerrards Claret and Blue Army!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

 Pics aren’t uploaded, but what a final away day that was before my son is born! Up the f-in villlllaaaaaa


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## Bdill93 (Nov 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not a bad start for him

Race for the 4th is going to be interesting
		
Click to expand...

We will do you lads a favour and batter City on Wednesday 😉😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 27, 2021)

If only Brighton had a striker...........they could be a top 6-7 side easily.


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## Cherry13 (Nov 27, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Quiet on here today,I suppose it’s because none of the big teams are playing till tomorrow.
		
Click to expand...

Not much to really say as a Newcastle fan. 2 huge games coming up, but that was a poor display today. Limited by what’s available to him, but I don’t think this  be viewed as positively as the Brentford performance.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 27, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



			Not much to really say as a Newcastle fan. 2 huge games coming up, but that was a poor display today. Limited by what’s available to him, but I don’t think this  be viewed as positively as the Brentford performance.
		
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Any difference to when Bruce was in charge?


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## Cherry13 (Nov 27, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Any difference to when Bruce was in charge?
		
Click to expand...

I personally think so, certainly in attack there seems to be more effort to get forward in numbers and make something happen. 
Still seemed a bit passive in defence and willing to let arsenal dictate things but hopefully we’ll see a big difference next two games. 

Mind, I thought Stuart atwell was really poor today, maybe biased but he seemed to be giving them a lot more protection when it came to challenges, none more obvious than when ASM was tackled and the player took him out then touched the ball, then ASM made pretty much the same challenge and a free kick given.  Few instances like that. (But def not an excuse).


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## Dando (Nov 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Might still be hope for Spurs yet, they've lodged an official complaint to UEFA about their loss last night. Apparently the plumber playing in goal for Mura wasn't Gas Safe registered.
		
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This wins post of the year


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## fundy (Nov 27, 2021)

Rivaldo eat your heart out lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1464725333517770755


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## AliMc (Nov 28, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Steven Gerrards Claret and Blue Army!!!!!
		
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I see they are now called Steven Gerrard's Aston Villa as it was Steven Gerrard's Rangers, don't really get the media love in, £50m spent with Rangers to win one trophy out of 9 in a two horse race, very average manager imho


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## Billysboots (Nov 28, 2021)

AliMc said:



			I see they are now called Steven Gerrard's Aston Villa as it was Steven Gerrard's Rangers, don't really get the media love in, £50m spent with Rangers to win one trophy out of 9 in a two horse race, very average manager imho
		
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Perhaps on the basis of your own argument it’s rather soon to say he is a very average manager. I’m more of the view that he is unproven.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2021)

Seems unfair that VAR was switched off at the Brentford game after 40 minutes. It was working fine to award Brentford a penalty but when Rondon was having his shirt clearly pulled, nearly ripped off him, it didn't notice . I mean, blimey, how much clearer does a shirt pull in the area have to be?


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Seems unfair that VAR was switched off at the Brentford game after 40 minutes. It was working fine to award Brentford a penalty but when Rondon was having his shirt clearly pulled, nearly ripped off him, it didn't notice . I mean, blimey, how much clearer does a shirt pull in the area have to be?
		
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utterly ridiculous, almost got his shirt off his back


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## adam6177 (Nov 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Seems unfair that VAR was switched off at the Brentford game after 40 minutes. It was working fine to award Brentford a penalty but when Rondon was having his shirt clearly pulled, nearly ripped off him, it didn't notice . I mean, blimey, how much clearer does a shirt pull in the area have to be?
		
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Not to mention the tackle on digne that he's now getting booed for.  Countless times I've said VAR officials are incompetent... And they prove it over and over and over again.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Not to mention the tackle on digne that he's now getting booed for.  Countless times I've said VAR officials are incompetent... And they prove it over and over and over again.
		
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Canos has had yet another nibble on Digne. He is a real charmer.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Canos has had yet another nibble on Digne. He is a real charmer.
		
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Digne not gonna win any oscars lol, even Keane had enough and dragged him up


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			Digne not gonna win any oscars lol, even Keane had enough and dragged him up
		
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Oh, he is making the most of it but he is still getting caught repeatedly.


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## Billysboots (Nov 28, 2021)

Very brave selection from Carrick. Three defensively minded midfielders and no number 9 in his starting XI will either be hailed as genius or catastrophic depending on the result.


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## SteveW86 (Nov 28, 2021)

this is all about not getting thrashed for UTD.

City, Liverpool and Chelsea are a class apart at the minute


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## SteveW86 (Nov 28, 2021)

Phil Jones must be gutted he has to do something for his £100k this week


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## Slime (Nov 28, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			this is all about not getting thrashed for UTD.

City, Liverpool and Chelsea are a class apart at the minute
		
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But the bench looks awesome .................................. now Phil Jones is back!


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2021)

Buzzing for the derby on Wednesday, bring it on 😱😳


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## Billysboots (Nov 28, 2021)

Lindelöf making his usual steady start 🙄


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## Swango1980 (Nov 28, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Lindelöf making his usual steady start 🙄
		
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Carrick could really make a statement and sub him for Jones in 1st half


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## Hobbit (Nov 28, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Lindelöf making his usual steady start 🙄
		
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Utd will get mullered if it carries on like this. Great to see Fred marking thin air down the left side again.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Very brave selection from Carrick. Three defensively minded midfielders and no number 9 in his starting XI will either be hailed as genius or catastrophic depending on the result.
		
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not seen too many utd fans who think it will be genius......


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

AliMc said:



			I see they are now called Steven Gerrard's Aston Villa as it was Steven Gerrard's Rangers, don't really get the media love in, £50m spent with Rangers to win one trophy out of 9 in a two horse race, very average manager imho
		
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Is it always this bitter towards other managers up in Scotland , 

He was manager for 3 seasons was it ?

65% won ratio 

Went 2nd , 2nd and then 1st and believe unbeaten in the season they won the league ? 

Not bad for an average manager in his first job as a manager 🙄


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

Got to be a worry when Fred is your best player on the pitch 😲


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## Slime (Nov 28, 2021)




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## fundy (Nov 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Got to be a worry when Fred is your best player on the pitch 😲
		
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think youll find thats Jorginho


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			think youll find thats Jorginho 

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😂
get that contract in front of Carrick and get it signed 😁


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## Billysboots (Nov 28, 2021)

In fifty years of watching football I have never seen a goal which has come so much against the run of play.


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## Slime (Nov 28, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			In fifty years of watching football I have never seen a goal which has come so much against the run of play.
		
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Great, wasn't it?


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## GG26 (Nov 28, 2021)

Great reception for Ranieri at the King Power this afternoon and great to see Maddison getting back to his best.  He was the difference between the two teams this afternoon.

Started snowing after 20 mins and didn’t let up for the rest of the match.  Needed an orange ball as the yellow one was difficult to pick out as the pitch turned white.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

What’s a chance for Utd to sneak the win 

What has happened to Wan Bissaka and Fernandes-


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## Swango1980 (Nov 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s a chance for Utd to sneak the win

What has happened to Wan Bissaka and Fernandes-
		
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Wan Bissaka could be the worst quality player on the ball in PL history. Horrific. So bad today.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 28, 2021)

What a poor match. The big question I have...are things so bad at Utd they could only afford the kit in XL and if it's too big for you then tough?!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

Tuchel has a point - that’s ridiculous, he is offside so how can it be a corner 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Nov 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Tuchel has a point - that’s ridiculous, he is offside so how can it be a corner 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
		
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Because, the linesman did not see it. If there was no VAR, it would still have been a corner. The only thing VAR can do is rule out a goal if scored.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s a chance for Utd to sneak the win

What has happened to Wan Bissaka and *Fernandes*-
		
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The definition of a one season wonder. 

Wan Bissaka is being exposed for the average player he is. Bit like Maguire.

Whats happened to Timo Werner??


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## SteveW86 (Nov 28, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The definition of a one season wonder.

Wan Bissaka is being exposed for the average player he is. Bit like Maguire.

Whats happened to Timo Werner??
		
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Hang on, I thought Salah was a one season wonder?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Because, the linesman did not see it. If there was no VAR, it would still have been a corner. The only thing VAR can do is rule out a goal if scored.
		
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He needs to go to specsavers.

Had Yernited scored from that corner VAR couldnt get involved as its classed as the next phase of play.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Because, the linesman did not see it. If there was no VAR, it would still have been a corner. The only thing VAR can do is rule out a goal if scored.
		
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If the linesman’s cooldnt see that Ronaldo was offside then he needs to find a new job because there was clear daylight between him and the last defender. Helen Keller would have seen that Ronaldo was offside


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## mteam (Nov 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Because, the linesman did not see it. If there was no VAR, it would still have been a corner. The only thing VAR can do is rule out a goal if scored.
		
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If he didnt see that he shouldn't be running the line imo


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 28, 2021)

I'm wondering if a few of the other smaller teams might take a leaf out of United's book and play a flat back 9 when they come up against the bigger teams.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 28, 2021)

After the Liverpool game and the Man City game the last thing Utd needed to do was go toe to toe with Chelsea.
Whilst not a vintage performance the attitude and aptitude was good.
A battling performance.
Lucky Sancho didn’t pass to Rashford because he ran offside.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Wan Bissaka could be the worst quality player on the ball in PL history. Horrific. So bad today.
		
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According to pokerjoke, he's better than TAA.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 28, 2021)

mteam said:



			If he didnt see that he shouldn't be running the line imo
		
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I'm not defending the linesman, just explaining that a corner was given because the linesman didn't see it. Happens all the time, whether it be an offside, free kick, etc. So, in the grand scheme of things, it is not really a talking point. Maybe it would have been had Utd scored from corner.

What is more shocking is a great chance falling to Utd at the end when Mendy gave the ball away, but that chance fell to Fred.


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## Slime (Nov 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			According to pokerjoke, he's better than TAA.
		
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................... at defending, and I'd have to agree with him.


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## Slime (Nov 28, 2021)

Very happy with a point ............................. when all I was expecting was a drubbing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm not defending the linesman, just explaining that a corner was given because the linesman didn't see it. Happens all the time, whether it be an offside, free kick, etc. So, in the grand scheme of things, it is not really a talking point. Maybe it would have been had Utd scored from corner.

What is more shocking is a great chance falling to Utd at the end when Mendy gave the ball away, but that chance fell to Fred.
		
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🤦‍♂️
he didn’t flag offside because it’s the new directive to not flag for offside until the player has a shot etc - it wasn’t because the linesman didn’t see it 

because he didn’t have a shot the flag stayed down but they gained a corner 

If Utd had scored from that corner then it would have been an embarrassment of the new directive


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## pokerjoke (Nov 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			According to pokerjoke, he's better than TAA.
		
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At defending 100%
There’s a lot better than TAA
His overall game though is shocking (AWB) that is.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

Slime said:



			................... at defending, and I'd have to agree with him.
		
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😂😂

Sorry Wan Bissaka is not better than TAA at anything unless he makes a great cup of tea


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## Billysboots (Nov 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Wan Bissaka could be the worst quality player on the ball in PL history. Horrific. So bad today.
		
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With and without the ball he’s awful, with the occasional redeeming block and last ditch tackle. Some of his positioning is unbelievably bad. There were times today he was almost United’s furthest forward player when we were defending - absolutely miles out of position when playing a back four.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			At defending 100%
There’s a lot better than TAA
His overall game though is shocking (AWB) that is.
		
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It's a myth TAA cant defend. Absolute myth.


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## BrianM (Nov 28, 2021)

Chelsea are a superb side, should of won really, but Utd seem to be playing better for Carrick…
Mctominay immense again, he’s been brilliant for Scotland as well.
How good is Reece James looking as well, another great player.


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## BrianM (Nov 28, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's a myth TAA cant defend. Absolute myth.
		
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Good defender but better going forward in my opinion.
Better teams are setting up like this where the emphasis is on attacking rather than defending…


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Good defender but better going forward in my opinion.
Better teams are setting up like this where the emphasis is on attacking rather than defending…
		
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He is better going forward than defending but because attacking attributes are world class and the way we play sometimes he is very high so there is space behind him , that’s more down to the system as opposed to his ability. When faced one on one then it’s tough to get passed him and he very solid in the tackle , early years he used to switch off to people coming in behind him but he is far better now.


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## Foxholer (Nov 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️
he didn’t flag offside because it’s the new directive to not flag for offside until the player has a shot etc - it wasn’t because the linesman didn’t see it

because he didn’t have a shot the flag stayed down but they gained a corner

If Utd had scored from that corner then it would have been an embarrassment of the new directive
		
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Was the 'awarding of the corner' the point at which (under the new directive) the linesman should have raised his flag (for VAR review) though?
https://www.premierleague.com/news/1833470


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## Swango1980 (Nov 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️
he didn’t flag offside because it’s the new directive to not flag for offside until the player has a shot etc - it wasn’t because the linesman didn’t see it

because he didn’t have a shot the flag stayed down but they gained a corner

If Utd had scored from that corner then it would have been an embarrassment of the new directive
		
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The linesman doesn't flag for offside once the attack is still under way. However, as soon as the attack is over, the linesman flags for offside, if he thinks it was offside.

There is no way that the linesman thinks it is offside, but then decides not to put his flag up because Utd get a corner rather than score.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The linesman doesn't flag for offside once the attack is still under way. However, as soon as the attack is over, the linesman flags for offside, if he thinks it was offside.

There is no way that the linesman thinks it is offside, but then decides not to put his flag up because Utd get a corner rather than score.
		
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then he needs to get himself to specsavers

If he can’t see that then he shouldn’t be in the role - the linesman messed.


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## DanFST (Nov 28, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's a myth TAA cant defend. Absolute myth.
		
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Not really, he couldn't even keep up with little West Ham.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Not really, he couldn't even keep up with little West Ham.
		
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Likewise, he kept Messi quiet 🤷‍♂️😉


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## Swango1980 (Nov 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 39704

then he needs to get himself to specsavers

If he can’t see that then he shouldn’t be in the role - the linesman messed.
		
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Maybe, but it is ridiculously easy when you watch it from a camera tower and look at slow motion replays and stills. A fraction of a second earlier he may have been onside, and linesman may have struggled to see exactly when the pass was played, especially as the guy who passed it was on the other side of the pitch. 

Easy for the arm chair fan to be critical. But, I have seen much worse decisions, probably from better officials. 

I saw Carra and Neville do a piece a year or so ago with the PL officials, and one of the things they tried was flagging for offside. Not as easy as you'd think


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



*Maybe, but it is ridiculously easy when you watch it from a camera tower and look at slow motion replays and stills.* A fraction of a second earlier he may have been onside, and linesman may have struggled to see exactly when the pass was played, especially as the guy who passed it was on the other side of the pitch.

Easy for the arm chair fan to be critical. But, I have seen much worse decisions, probably from better officials.

I saw Carra and Neville do a piece a year or so ago with the PL officials, and one of the things they tried was flagging for offside. Not as easy as you'd think
		
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It was that obvious the entire ground was howling for it.  Absolute joke of a decision.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It was that obvious the entire ground was howling for it.  Absolute joke of a decision.
		
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You mean the entire ground of mostly Chelsea fans? Shocker


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			You mean the entire ground of mostly Chelsea fans? Shocker
		
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Fans know the game & know when a player is that far off. and he was well off.  

Keep defending the indefensible if you want, but you're coming across as even more myopic than the assistant referee.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Fans know the game & know when a player is that far off. and he was well off. 

Keep defending the indefensible if you want, but you're coming across as even more myopic than the assistant referee.
		
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Fans know the game (rules). Officials do not know the game (rules). Yes, you indeed make an intelligent argument. 

Red cards should just be given out any time the crowd scream for one.

I never said it wasn't offside. If the official saw all the replays, no doubt they'd think exactly the same. Honestly, you are making the most pointless, idiotic point ever seen on any of these forums. If you feel you need to moan about a non event, so be it, maybe it is all Chelsea fans have to moan about after that game. Not like they can blame the officials for not winning.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It was that obvious the entire ground was howling for it.  Absolute joke of a decision.
		
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Yep, a decent explanation here.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465024054784634888


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## DanFST (Nov 28, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Likewise, he kept Messi quiet 🤷‍♂️😉
		
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Over 2 years ago?

Even for a Liverpool fan that's a stretch....


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			At defending 100%
There’s a lot better than TAA
His overall game though is shocking (AWB) that is.
		
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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Over 2 years ago?

Even for a Liverpool fan that's a stretch....
		
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I didnt know there was a time limit😉

He kept Ronaldo quiet 5 weeks ago. Better?


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## DanFST (Nov 28, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I didnt know there was a time limit😉

He kept Ronaldo quiet 5 weeks ago. Better?
		
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Not really. I don't think 36 year old Ronaldo really burns down the wing anymore, He's now a poacher. But I think you know that and are just being obtuse.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Not really, he couldn't even keep up with little West Ham.
		
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Is it like winning a trophy ?


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## DanFST (Nov 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it like winning a trophy ?
		
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I imagine you know as much as me, seeing as you don't go to games.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Not really. I don't think 36 year old Ronaldo really burns down the wing anymore, He's now a poacher. But I think you know that and are just being obtuse.
		
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Lighten up, its only a bit of fun.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I imagine you know as much as me, seeing as you don't go to games.
		
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😂

Not sure the point but it’s about as relevant as bringing in a game from 2 weeks ago - is it because it’s the last time West Ham won in the league 😂


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2021)

Heard on the radio this morning on my way to work that Messi is the favourite for the Ballon D'or this evening...

What does Lewandowski have to do to win it? Serious question... Messi has not been the best player in the world this year - its just a stupid joke of an award now if he wins again. Pathetic.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Heard on the radio this morning on my way to work that Messi is the favourite for the Ballon D'or this evening...

What does Lewandowski have to do to win it? Serious question... Messi has not been the best player in the world this year - its just a stupid joke of an award now if he wins again. Pathetic.
		
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Surely it depends on the voting period?
Messi’s form has certainly not been apparent at PSG, but up until then he broke records in Spain this year, won the Cup and the Copa America with Argentina.

As much as I admire Lewandowski he plays for a team that dominates their league and has done nothing with Poland.

I’m not saying Messi deserves it, but I’m also not sure Lewandowski does either.

We know from past history this award rarely goes to the “best” footballer of the year, Modric won it once and he certainly wasn’t the worlds best at the time.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 29, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Heard on the radio this morning on my way to work that Messi is the favourite for the Ballon D'or this evening...

What does Lewandowski have to do to win it? Serious question... Messi has not been the best player in the world this year - its just a stupid joke of an award now if he wins again. Pathetic.
		
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Honestly, what has Messi done this year to win it? I hate to say it, but would you rather have Mo Salah on your team, or Messi? Sure, if it was between a 20 year old Messi or Salah, Messi every time. But, in the last year surely Mo Salah has been a better footballer? 

I don't watch German football, and always suspect that the opposition is generally so poor relative to Bayern, that I reckon Phil Jones would score a hatful if he played up top for them. I've watched Lewandowski a few times and never been blown away. That being said, his scoring stats look fantastic, so I'd probably pick him ahead of Messi as well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2021)

The award has been Mickey Mouse for years. So many great players have been ignored by it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			has done nothing with Poland.
		
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72 goals in 124 appearances and country's top scorer so not a bad return


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## BiMGuy (Nov 29, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Honestly, what has Messi done this year to win it? I hate to say it, but would you rather have Mo Salah on your team, or Messi? Sure, if it was between a 20 year old Messi or Salah, Messi every time. But, in the last year surely Mo Salah has been a better footballer?

I don't watch German football, and always suspect that the opposition is generally so poor relative to Bayern, that I reckon Phil Jones would score a hatful if he played up top for them. I've watched Lewandowski a few times and never been blown away. That being said, his scoring stats look fantastic, so I'd probably pick him ahead of Messi as well.
		
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As above, the award is for the calendar year.

Messi was outrageously good prior to joining PSG in the summer. Salah wasn’t, however he has been on good form since the beginning of October.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Surely it depends on the voting period?
Messi’s form has certainly not been apparent at PSG, but up until then he broke records in Spain this year, won the Cup and the Copa America with Argentina.

*As much as I admire Lewandowski he plays for a team that dominates their league and has done nothing with Poland.*

I’m not saying Messi deserves it, but I’m also not sure Lewandowski does either.

We know from past history this award rarely goes to the “best” footballer of the year, Modric won it once and he certainly wasn’t the worlds best at the time.
		
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I do generally agree with this, I also watched him live against NI in Euro 2016 and wasn't overly impressed with his contribution in that game (OK, it is only one game, so little to go on). However, Poland probably are not one of the best international sides, so I'd generally take international football with a pinch of salt when judging player ability (unless it is clear they've done fantastic things for that side, or not achieved when playing in a top international side). George Best achieved little for N Ireland, George Weah little for Liberia, but still world class players.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			72 goals in 124 appearances and country's top scorer so not a bad return
		
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WITH Poland, not FOR Poland, clearly stated I rate him.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			As above, the award is for the calendar year.

Messi was outrageously good prior to joining PSG in the summer. Salah wasn’t, however he has been on good form since the beginning of October.
		
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Barca didnt win the league though? And honestly the goals scored in that absolute farmers league are a joke. Cant remember a UCL game when Messi carried barca either, what are we actually quanitfying "outragously good" as? The copa America?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I do generally agree with this, I also watched him live against NI in Euro 2016 and wasn't overly impressed with his contribution in that game (OK, it is only one game, so little to go on). However, Poland probably are not one of the best international sides, so I'd generally take international football with a pinch of salt when judging player ability (unless it is clear they've done fantastic things for that side, or not achieved when playing in a top international side). George Best achieved little for N Ireland, George Weah little for Liberia, but still world class players.
		
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So it comes back to voting criteria, ie, most succesful or best, if it’s purely best footballer then it is Messi or Ronaldo in this day and age, if it is on form, then it would Salah this year for me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2021)

The last 4/5 years have turned the award into a bit of joke 

Multiple players have been far more crucial to their team and missed out - Salah , VVD and Lewondonski as well as in 2018 prob Greizmann


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The last 4/5 years have turned the award into a bit of joke

Multiple players have been far more crucial to their team and missed out - Salah , VVD and Lewondonski as well as in 2018 prob Greizmann
		
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Totally agree.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The last 4/5 years have turned the award into a bit of joke

Multiple players have been far more crucial to their team and missed out - Salah , VVD and Lewondonski as well as in 2018 prob Greizmann
		
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Yes VVD when we won the league.
But defenders rarely get a look in.
Sometimes I have watched defenders play the game of their season but an attacker will get MOM for scoring even if they do little else in the game.
Bit of a joke award now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes VVD when we won the league.
But defenders rarely get a look in.
*Sometimes I have watched defenders play the game of their season but an attacker will get MOM for scoring even if they do little else in the game.*
Bit of a joke award now.
		
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That annoys the heck out of me. The award isn't moment of the match, it's man of the match. It is a cop out when they do that.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2021)

Watched MOTD last night.
Has shirt pulling been forgotten about now.
The pull on Rondon should have been seen surley.?
What is VAR doing there and the ref.
Plus the offside in the Utd game that really needs sorting.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Watched MOTD last night.
Has shirt pulling been forgotten about now.
The pull on Rondon should have been seen surley.?
What is VAR doing there and the ref.
*Plus the offside in the Utd game that really needs sorting*.
		
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This is the result of playing on when the refs know its offside. I think the liners are programmed to just play on.

I understand the really tight ones but that was pathetic yesterday. I genuinely believe the liner tboight he was onside. It's a mistake.

I would've liked to have seen yernited score from the corner just to see how the PL/FA/PGMOL would've reacted.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Watched MOTD last night.
Has shirt pulling been forgotten about now.
The pull on Rondon should have been seen surley.?
What is VAR doing there and the ref.
*Plus the offside in the Utd game that really needs sorting.*

Click to expand...

Short of sacking the linesman for making a mistake (for a linesman who never makes mistakes), how would they sort it? Extend the use of VAR to checking when a corner is won? What about a throw in deep in the opponents half? Maybe we sack all the officials, and ask VAR to ref the entire game?

I agree with the shirt pull rule, no idea what is and what is not allowed. Another thing that really bugs me is when there is a little heated exchange between players, which happened in Newcastle game. Rondon simply was closest to sceen, and effectively broke it up by getting in the way. He did it in the most calm manner, and effectively stopped the angry opponent from getting close to the one he was having a go at. Yet, the referees feel the need that a yellow card for each team is the automatic penalty, and so he blindly gave Rondon a yellow simply because he was closet to the scene. Had he had a second yellow card, that would really be an injustice.


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			WITH Poland, not FOR Poland, clearly stated I rate him.

Click to expand...

I take the point, but should he be held back from winning an individual accolade just because of where he was born? Poland are never winning anything let's face it, they're a one man team. Shevchenko won it once, I don't think Ukraine did anything that year.

I don't know if there's some unwritten rule that the Ballon D'Or winner must play in Spain or England, but I don't think the German league is much different to Spain in overall quality, aside from the fact one team dominates instead of one of three. Lewandowski has been nothing short of insane in 2021. By my count (source is Soccerbase) he's on 54 games, 64 goals - that's all competitions and including games for Poland. We used to call that "Messi & Ronaldo numbers"...


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Short of sacking the linesman for making a mistake (for a linesman who never makes mistakes), how would they sort it?* Extend the use of VAR to checking when a corner is won? *What about a throw in deep in the opponents half? Maybe we sack all the officials, and ask VAR to ref the entire game?

I agree with the shirt pull rule, no idea what is and what is not allowed. Another thing that really bugs me is when there is a little heated exchange between players, which happened in Newcastle game. Rondon simply was closest to sceen, and effectively broke it up by getting in the way. He did it in the most calm manner, and effectively stopped the angry opponent from getting close to the one he was having a go at. Yet, the referees feel the need that a yellow card for each team is the automatic penalty, and so he blindly gave Rondon a yellow simply because he was closet to the scene. Had he had a second yellow card, that would really be an injustice.
		
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I see no reason as to why this isnt possible to some extent to be honest. 

Theres been a few corners for and against villa this season where its quite evident it was the wrong call - and as of yet, no goals have been scored on these occasions - but if one was, and it wasnt actually a corner, id be fuming if my team conceded.

Its a 2 second job for VAR to check who has the last contact on the ball. It isnt down to opinion or fine margins either.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I take the point, but should he be held back from winning an individual accolade just because of where he was born? Poland are never winning anything let's face it, they're a one man team. Shevchenko won it once, I don't think Ukraine did anything that year.

I don't know if there's some unwritten rule that the Ballon D'Or winner must play in Spain or England, but I don't think the German league is much different to Spain in overall quality, aside from the fact one team dominates instead of one of three. Lewandowski has been nothing short of insane in 2021. By my count (source is Soccerbase) he's on 54 games, 64 goals - that's all competitions and including games for Poland. We used to call that "Messi & Ronaldo numbers"...
		
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If he doesnt win tonight I think its a joke of an award.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I take the point, but should he be held back from winning an individual accolade just because of where he was born? Poland are never winning anything let's face it, they're a one man team. Shevchenko won it once, I don't think Ukraine did anything that year.

I don't know if there's some unwritten rule that the Ballon D'Or winner must play in Spain or England, but I don't think the German league is much different to Spain in overall quality, aside from the fact one team dominates instead of one of three. Lewandowski has been nothing short of insane in 2021. By my count (source is Soccerbase) he's on 54 games, 64 goals - that's all competitions and including games for Poland. We used to call that "Messi & Ronaldo numbers"...
		
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Mate, without sounding rude, you are taking it out of context, my reply was a response to this year between him and Messi, I never said he should never win it or disagreed with any of the reasons you put.

Lewandowski is a superb player that I very much admire, but as I’ve also said I believe Salah should win it this year and I don’t think Egypt will ever win anything either.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I see no reason as to why this isnt possible to some extent to be honest.

Theres been a few corners for and against villa this season where its quite evident it was the wrong call - and as of yet, no goals have been scored on these occasions - but if one was, and it wasnt actually a corner, id be fuming if my team conceded.

Its a 2 second job for VAR to check who has the last contact on the ball. It isnt down to opinion or fine margins either.
		
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I believe going back a few years they (the authorities) took the decision not to include Corners or Throw-ins to VAR’s remit as there would be too many stop start moments to the game.


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, without sounding rude, you are taking it out of context, my reply was a response to this year between him and Messi, I never said he should never win it or disagreed with any of the reasons you put.

Lewandowski is a superb player that I very much admire, but as I’ve also said I believe Salah should win it this year and I don’t think Egypt will ever win anything either.
		
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The fact is you're probably right and winning the Copa America will be the excuse they use to give it back to Messi again. I always find it slightly odd when team trophies are used as justification in individual player awards, as nobody wins a trophy as a one man team. But they've pretty much always done the Ballon D'Or that way.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Short of sacking the linesman for making a mistake (for a linesman who never makes mistakes), how would they sort it? Extend the use of VAR to checking when a corner is won? What about a throw in deep in the opponents half? Maybe we sack all the officials, and ask VAR to ref the entire game?

I agree with the shirt pull rule, no idea what is and what is not allowed. Another thing that really bugs me is when there is a little heated exchange between players, which happened in Newcastle game. Rondon simply was closest to sceen, and effectively broke it up by getting in the way. He did it in the most calm manner, and effectively stopped the angry opponent from getting close to the one he was having a go at. Yet, the referees feel the need that a yellow card for each team is the automatic penalty, and so he blindly gave Rondon a yellow simply because he was closet to the scene. Had he had a second yellow card, that would really be an injustice.
		
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There must be plenty of Lino’s that can see that’s offside in the lower leagues.
They are supposed to be professionals now.
They used to put the flag up as soon as the offside player made an attempt for the ball.
So it goes out for a corner, but the flags up as he’s offside.
Remember the Lovren one when Spurs scored ? He’s offside.
They have messed with the rules so much nobody knows what’s going on now including some officials.

But if he didn’t see that offside he should not be in the PL imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The fact is you're probably right and winning the Copa America will be the excuse they use to give it back to Messi again. I always find it slightly odd when team trophies are used as justification in individual player awards, as nobody wins a trophy as a one man team. But they've pretty much always done the Ballon D'Or that way.
		
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Apparently it’s already been leaked and Messi has won it!
They tell the winner a few days before so the ceremony goes without a hitch, someone in his inner circle has leaked it.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The fact is you're probably right and winning the Copa America will be the excuse they use to give it back to Messi again. I always find it slightly odd when team trophies are used as justification in individual player awards, as nobody wins a trophy as a one man team. But they've pretty much always done the Ballon D'Or that way.
		
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Give it to Jorginho then.. Won the Euros and CL this year!


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the result of playing on when the refs know its offside. I think the liners are programmed to just play on.

I understand the really tight ones but that was pathetic yesterday. I genuinely believe the liner tboight he was onside. It's a mistake.

I would've liked to have seen yernited score from the corner just to see how the PL/FA/PGMOL would've reacted.
		
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The whole crowd knew that was offside!
Tight ones yes but that wasn’t even close.
I never like seeing UTD score.
But someone’s going to get badly hurt playing on like this.
That might be what it takes Unfortunatly.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I believe going back a few years they (the authorities) took the decision not to include Corners or Throw-ins to VAR’s remit as there would be too many stop start moments to the game.
		
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Stupid decision though. Cant go half arsed into something!

Ive been at a game when a peno was awarded seconds before half time this year, minutes after the incident occured - peno missed and then they allowed him a rebound shot when it should have been blown dead...

If you can wait 5 minutes to award a peno, you can scratch off a goal 3 minutes later after checking the corner was indeed a corner.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Short of sacking the linesman for making a mistake (for a linesman who never makes mistakes), how would they sort it? Extend the use of VAR to checking when a corner is won? What about a throw in deep in the opponents half? Maybe we sack all the officials, and ask VAR to ref the entire game?

I agree with the shirt pull rule, no idea what is and what is not allowed. Another thing that really bugs me is when there is a little heated exchange between players, which happened in Newcastle game. Rondon simply was closest to sceen, and effectively broke it up by getting in the way. He did it in the most calm manner, and effectively stopped the angry opponent from getting close to the one he was having a go at. Yet, the referees feel the need that a yellow card for each team is the automatic penalty, and so he blindly gave Rondon a yellow simply because he was closet to the scene. Had he had a second yellow card, that would really be an injustice.
		
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I would tell all the players as well.
“ while a VAR decision is being looked at any whinging and harassing  of the ref will be a yellow card”
It’s pathetic.


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Give it to Jorginho then.. Won the Euros and CL this year!
		
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You laugh but some people genuinely were suggesting that.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Stupid decision though. Cant go half arsed into something!

Ive been at a game when a peno was awarded seconds before half time this year, minutes after the incident occured - peno missed and then they allowed him a rebound shot when it should have been blown dead...

If you can wait 5 minutes to award a peno, you can scratch off a goal 3 minutes later after checking the corner was indeed a corner.
		
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Wasn’t really the corner award. But see your point.
You can have a goal disallowed because your toenail is offside.
But VAR can’t tell the officials that it’s not a corner as he was two yards offside.
They are there to help the ref get it right, and should he ( Lino) make a clear and obvious error he should be told imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You laugh but some people genuinely were suggesting that. 

Click to expand...

*Ballon d’Or shortlist in full*

Cesar Azpilicueta (Chelsea)
Nicolo Barella (Inter Milan)
Karim Benzema (Real Madrid)
Leonardo Bonucci (Juventus)
Kevin De Bruyne (Manchester City)
Giorgio Chiellini (Juventus)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United)
Ruben Dias (Manchester City)
Gianluigi Donnarumma (Paris Saint-Germain)
Bruno Fernandes (Manchester United)
Phil Foden (Manchester City)
Erling Haaland (Borussia Dortmund)
Jorginho (Chelsea)
Harry Kane (Tottenham)
N’Golo Kante (Chelsea)
Simon Kjaer (AC Milan)
Robert Lewandowski (Bayern Munich)
Romelu Lukaku (Chelsea)
Riyad Mahrez (Manchester City)
Lautaro Martinez (Inter Milan)
Kylian Mbappe (Paris Saint-Germain)
Lionel Messi (Paris Saint-Germain)
Luka Modric (Real Madrid)
Gerard Moreno (Villarreal)
Mason Mount (Chelsea)
Neymar (Paris Saint-Germain)
Pedri (Barcelona)
Mohamed Salah (Liverpool)
Raheem Sterling (Manchester City)
Luis Suarez (Atletico Madrid)


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



*Ballon d’Or shortlist in full*

Cesar Azpilicueta (Chelsea)
Nicolo Barella (Inter Milan)
Karim Benzema (Real Madrid)
Leonardo Bonucci (Juventus)
Kevin De Bruyne (Manchester City)
Giorgio Chiellini (Juventus)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United)
Ruben Dias (Manchester City)
Gianluigi Donnarumma (Paris Saint-Germain)
Bruno Fernandes (Manchester United)
Phil Foden (Manchester City)
Erling Haaland (Borussia Dortmund)
Jorginho (Chelsea)
Harry Kane (Tottenham)
N’Golo Kante (Chelsea)
Simon Kjaer (AC Milan)
Robert Lewandowski (Bayern Munich)
Romelu Lukaku (Chelsea)
Riyad Mahrez (Manchester City)
Lautaro Martinez (Inter Milan)
Kylian Mbappe (Paris Saint-Germain)
Lionel Messi (Paris Saint-Germain)
Luka Modric (Real Madrid)
Gerard Moreno (Villarreal)
Mason Mount (Chelsea)
Neymar (Paris Saint-Germain)
Pedri (Barcelona)
Mohamed Salah (Liverpool)
Raheem Sterling (Manchester City)
Luis Suarez (Atletico Madrid)


Click to expand...

Kane ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would tell all the players as well.
“ while a VAR decision is being looked at any whinging and harassing  of the ref will be a yellow card”
It’s pathetic.
		
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I can't remember whether it was Utd or Chelsea players doing it but at one point yesterday there was an incident and a group of players were surrounding the ref, right in his face, hands together in prayer, pleading and screaming at him to change his decision. It is going to be checked, stop it! It was horrible when players did this in the past but now there is even less excuse. I'm with you, book them, it will stop the dramatics.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 29, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I see no reason as to why this isnt possible to some extent to be honest.

Theres been a few corners for and against villa this season where its quite evident it was the wrong call - and as of yet, no goals have been scored on these occasions - but if one was, and it wasnt actually a corner, id be fuming if my team conceded.

Its a 2 second job for VAR to check who has the last contact on the ball. It isnt down to opinion or fine margins either.
		
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It could be done, yes. Although, as mentioned, it would require more stoppages. And, a corner is not always won after an attack breaks down, but perhaps a throw in. Or, the ball may stay in play, and the attacking team somehow keep possession, play it back, and x passes later get another scoring chance. Imagine all the extra stoppages in play if VAR was introduced to more phases of a game rather than just immediate goals. At one stage yesterday, Chelsea seemed to be getting waves of corners, I wouldn't fancy having to wait for each one as VAR looked back to see if anything untoward happened that lead to that corner. On one hand fans want VAR gone as it has been disruptive enough, on the other hand fans are asking VAR to be used for even more parts of the game.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			There must be plenty of Lino’s that can see that’s offside in the lower leagues.
They are supposed to be professionals now.
They used to put the flag up as soon as the offside player made an attempt for the ball.
*So it goes out for a corner, but the flags up as he’s offside.*
Remember the Lovren one when Spurs scored ? He’s offside.
They have messed with the rules so much nobody knows what’s going on now including some officials.

But if he didn’t see that offside he should not be in the PL imo.
		
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That is exactly what would have happened had the linesman seen that Ronaldo was offside. He didn't see it, he didn't put his flag up. It was the wrong call, end of.

I doubt he is the only linesman in the world that would not have seen it? If we stop play a fraction of a second before the pass was played, where were the players? Were there any players across the pitch blocking his view at any time around the pass was played. I'd imagine human reaction time would find it impossible get a still snap shot of exactly were all the players were at the time the pass is played. I have seen much more shocking decisions from linesmen in the past than this wrong offside call. I am sure there have been even bigger shockers in lower league. And, there will be even bigger shockers in the future, especially if we stick to on field officials making human decisions for much of the game, instead of VAR taking most of this out of their hands.

I could be hugely critical of the official. It was a clear mistake. But, I have to assume that he has passed a fair few stringent tests to get to where he is in the game, and so his competence must be fairly high. I also assume he has not been bribed. I've no doubt if I was to run the line next weekend, I'd probably make some absolute shockers, things I do not see that are as clear as day when I get to see a replay. My mate had to ref in an over 35's league a few months ago for the first time, and suddenly realised being a ref is not as easy as it seems when you watch it on TV, and found himself having to guess many times. Put the role of being a match official into perspective.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It could be done, yes. Although, as mentioned, it would require more stoppages. And, a corner is not always won after an attack breaks down, but perhaps a throw in. Or, the ball may stay in play, and the attacking team somehow keep possession, play it back, and x passes later get another scoring chance. Imagine all the extra stoppages in play if VAR was introduced to more phases of a game rather than just immediate goals. At one stage yesterday, Chelsea seemed to be getting waves of corners, I wouldn't fancy having to wait for each one as VAR looked back to see if anything untoward happened that lead to that corner. On one hand fans want VAR gone as it has been disruptive enough, on the other hand fans are asking VAR to be used for even more parts of the game.
		
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Im more pro VAR than I am against it. I believe it does lead to correct decisions and improves the game on the whole. I just dont like a half arsed approach. You only need to check the outcome if it leads directly to a goal from the last dead ball situation. With modern tech that literally takes seconds. Plenty of sports use video tech and use it so well, its hard to believe football cant too.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would tell all the players as well.
“ while a VAR decision is being looked at any whinging and harassing  of the ref will be a yellow card”
It’s pathetic.
		
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Agreed. I can maybe understand them shouting for a penalty or a foul leading to a goal, as they might feel it wakes the VAR up a bit to actually look at it (if players do not make a fuss, I get the impression VAR will just leave it alone). However, once the ref says that VAR are looking at it, players should just shut up. It will be the VAR red that will decide if there is a reason a decision should be changed, and if they do the ref will likely change that decision once he reviews the monitor)


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## Swango1980 (Nov 29, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Im more pro VAR than I am against it. I believe it does lead to correct decisions and improves the game on the whole. I just dont like a half arsed approach. You only need to check the outcome if it leads directly to a goal from the last dead ball situation. With modern tech that literally takes seconds. Plenty of sports use video tech and use it so well, its hard to believe football cant too.
		
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So, you'd allow the corner, but only check if the corner should have been given if that corner leads to a goal? You could be checking an incident that happened minutes ago, especially if subs are made in between, a players takes ages to take the corner, the ref has to hold up play as players are pushing in box, or the corner is taken, but it leads to a bit of drama in the box before goal is scored (rather than just scoring directly from the cross by heading it in). And, what about throw ins? Maybe say no for them, but then if a team has a Rory Delap in their side, a corner was preferable to a throw in for the defending side.

I agree VAR will make more correct decisions, but I still feel it has made the game really sterile and stale. Virtually any time my team scores a goal, I'm half delighted, but half thinking is there a potential offside to check. That fear remains with me until the teams kick off again. It has taken out a lot of the immediate joy in the game, as before VAR you knew a goal would be disallowed within seconds.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2021)

A question for everyone. Has anyone ever seen an incident where the ref has gone across to the pitch side monitor and not changed his initial decision?

There was a big fuss about this happening this season but if all that they do is follow the recommendation of the ref back in ref HQ then are they really making the change themselves? Is there any point to them going across to the monitor? As soon as they do we know the decision will be reversed. Unless someone can remember a situation where this did not happen.......


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## Swango1980 (Nov 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A question for everyone. Has anyone ever seen an incident where the ref has gone across to the pitch side monitor and not changed his initial decision?

There was a big fuss about this happening this season but if all that they do is follow the recommendation of the ref back in ref HQ then are they really making the change themselves? Is there any point to them going across to the monitor? As soon as they do we know the decision will be reversed. Unless someone can remember a situation where this did not happen.......
		
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I saw it happen once last season, but cannot remember the game or the ref. However, you are right, if the VAR asks the ref to have a look, it is ONLY because the VAR thinks he made a mistake. The only real decision the on field ref can realistically make in 99% of all cases is agree with VAR, as VAR is a trained ref like him, but also has all the camera angles / slow motions / etc. If the on field ref sticks with his original decision, they could easily come across as arrogant, as they are essentially saying to VAR "I know you have much more info than me, but you are wrong and I am right". Plus, they are all mates / colleagues, so at the very least they'd support their VAR mate by going with him, as the on field ref always has the easy get out clause that they got it wrong because it was difficult to see in real time from their position.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 29, 2021)

Just seen on BBC website that FIFA are trialling semi-automated offsides. It will use 10-12 cameras and send an alert through to an official, who makes the final call. Watch this space, I can imagine this is going to be a lot of fun.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A question for everyone. Has anyone ever seen an incident where the ref has gone across to the pitch side monitor and not changed his initial decision?

There was a big fuss about this happening this season but if all that they do is follow the recommendation of the ref back in ref HQ then are they really making the change themselves? Is there any point to them going across to the monitor? As soon as they do we know the decision will be reversed. Unless someone can remember a situation where this did not happen.......
		
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seen it happen in other leagues on the continent ie Serie A but not in the prem that I can remember


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			So, you'd allow the corner, but only check if the corner should have been given if that corner leads to a goal? You could be checking an incident that happened minutes ago, especially if subs are made in between, a players takes ages to take the corner, the ref has to hold up play as players are pushing in box, or the corner is taken, but it leads to a bit of drama in the box before goal is scored (rather than just scoring directly from the cross by heading it in). And, what about throw ins? Maybe say no for them, but then if a team has a Rory Delap in their side, a corner was preferable to a throw in for the defending side.

I agree VAR will make more correct decisions, but I still feel it has made the game really sterile and stale. Virtually any time my team scores a goal, I'm half delighted, but half thinking is there a potential offside to check. That fear remains with me until the teams kick off again. It has taken out a lot of the immediate joy in the game, as before VAR you knew a goal would be disallowed within seconds.
		
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Yeah thats exactly what I'd do. Id allow the ref to make on field decisons but I would be checking they are correct if a goal is scored. You scrub off the goal in recognition that the ref got it wrong. For throw ins too if in the same passage of play the throwing team scores a goal. If the ball goes back as far as the centre circle and the play rebuilds from there - the corner/ throw in is a seperate passage of play.  

If we can wait 5 minutes to be pulled back for a peno taken just before HT and a rebound is allowed to be tapped in, then im happy to wait and have a goal scrubbed off for a team who have scored when it wasnt actually a corner or throw in. Why allow someone that advantage because you cant be bothered to check? 

Im in the ground every week - VAR goal celebrations are getting easier again. You know if its dubious or not. Even more so if you're watching on TV with a zoomed in angle. We all knew McGinn's screamer at the weekend was a clear goal no matter what VAR checks and the limbs speak for themselves.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A question for everyone. Has anyone ever seen an incident where the ref has gone across to the pitch side monitor and not changed his initial decision?

There was a big fuss about this happening this season but if all that they do is follow the recommendation of the ref back in ref HQ then are they really making the change themselves? Is there any point to them going across to the monitor? As soon as they do we know the decision will be reversed. Unless someone can remember a situation where this did not happen.......
		
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Yes it was Chris Kavannagh in the Anfield Derby last season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes it was Chris Kavannagh in the Anfield Derby last season.
		
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I bet it went your way as well 

One occasion so far remembered, none at all this season. If the decisions are correct then I have no issue but I tend to feel the walk across is window dressing if they pretty much follow the call from HQ


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't remember whether it was Utd or Chelsea players doing it but at one point yesterday there was an incident and a group of players were surrounding the ref, right in his face, hands together in prayer, pleading and screaming at him to change his decision. It is going to be checked, stop it! It was horrible when players did this in the past but now there is even less excuse. I'm with you, book them, it will stop the dramatics.
		
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Think it was both teams .
They all do it.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think it was both teams .
They all do it.
		
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Odious whoever does it. No need and no excuse.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Agreed. I can maybe understand them shouting for a penalty or a foul leading to a goal, as they might feel it wakes the VAR up a bit to actually look at it (if players do not make a fuss, I get the impression VAR will just leave it alone). However, once the ref says that VAR are looking at it, players should just shut up. It will be the VAR red that will decide if there is a reason a decision should be changed, and if they do the ref will likely change that decision once he reviews the monitor)
		
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Yes but was watching MOTD last night.
The Rondon shirt pull incident.
I might be wrong but the Everton players didn’t seem to put up much of a shout for a pen , especially Rondon himself.
But once it’s gone to VAR they should be booked for harassing the ref.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 29, 2021)

Anyone else like to see an end to the referee’s watch and hand the responsibility to a timekeeper?  30 or 35 minutes  each way, ball put into play, clock starts, ball put out of play clock stops. After time, finish as per rugby, first clean break in play.

I’m getting fed up to the back teeth of seeing referees tap their watch but do nothing about the offenders.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but was watching MOTD last night.
The Rondon shirt pull incident.
I might be wrong but the Everton players didn’t seem to put up much of a shout for a pen , especially Rondon himself.
But once it’s gone to VAR they should be booked for harassing the ref.
		
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Apparently VAR did review it. Yes, they really looked at it and decided it was not a penalty . It was reviewed whilst the game was going on.

Our players are very well behaved like that


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Apparently VAR did review it. Yes, they really looked at it and decided it was not a penalty . It was reviewed whilst the game was going on.

Our players are very well behaved like that 

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That’s a bit of a shock.
That’s just incompetent imo.
Pulling shirts is against the rules and the ref and VAR should not pick and choose.
If that’s in the centre circle it’s a yellow card.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I bet it went your way as well 

One occasion so far remembered, none at all this season. If the decisions are correct then I have no issue but I tend to feel the walk across is window dressing if they pretty much follow the call from HQ
		
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Not quite. It was one of those  definite pens against liverpool and Liverpool were lucky/klopp pays off the ref when we get given it 😉


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Anyone else like to see an end to the referee’s watch and hand the responsibility to a timekeeper?  30 or 35 minutes  each way, ball put into play, clock starts, ball put out of play clock stops. After time, finish as per rugby, first clean break in play.

I’m getting fed up to the back teeth of seeing referees tap their watch but do nothing about the offenders.
		
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Definitely and only getting 3-4 minutes injury time max when you know it has been stop start for substitutions and minor knocks. They seem much more on it for a major injury but don't seem to be able to keep tabs of time lost in normal circumstances. Think the rugby idea works much better but can't see it happening soon


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2021)

Chelsea win Club of the Year

So Salah comes 7th in the Balon D’Or and De Bruyne 8th 

😂😂😂

Didn’t realise that Messi has scored 2 more club goals than Mo this calendar year 

6th Ronaldo
5th Kante
4th Benzema
3rd Jorginho
2nd 
1st


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Chelsea win Club of the Year

So Salah comes 7th in the Balon D’Or and De Bruyne 8th 

😂😂😂

Didn’t realise that Messi has scored 2 more club goals than Mo this calendar year 

6th Ronaldo
5th Kante
4th Benzema
3rd Jorginho
2nd 
1st
		
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Jorginho EW backers in clover lol

Messi wins I assume


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			Jorginho EW backers in clover lol

Messi wins I assume
		
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And yep shock of all shocks Messi wins 😂😂


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## Papas1982 (Nov 29, 2021)

Pathetic award imo. 
Obv he's the greatest player of all time. But his last year or even last few don't stack up to Lewandowski. 

One has 128 goals in 107 games. 

The other 120 in 141. 

Both incredible. But clear winner imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 29, 2021)

Just seen this, apparently it is the “selection criteria” given to journos for the Balon D’Or.


1. Individual and team performance in 2021 calendar year;
2. Talent and sportsmanship of the player;
3. The player’s overall career.

Why is 3 in there if it’s an annual award?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Pathetic award imo.
Obv he's the greatest player of all time. But his last year or even last few don't stack up to Lewandowski.

One has 128 goals in 107 games.

The other 120 in 141.

Both incredible. But clear winner imo.
		
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He is the clear winner for many

Whilst Messi will end up being the greatest its made these awards a bit of a joke when he gets it just for being Messi .

https://www.sportbible.com/football...s-have-been-revealed-20211129?source=facebook


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## Papas1982 (Nov 29, 2021)

Tbh I'm not sure it's a case of him maybe being greatest ever. 

But I agree that he's got this award for who he is, not what he's done.


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## Billysboots (Nov 29, 2021)

I’m still not entirely sure why Messi is the pick of so many as the best player of all time, rather than Ronaldo. 

I’m not for one moment disputing Messi’s class, but Ronaldo has performed consistently for clubs in three leagues. Until his move to PSG, Messi has confined himself to doing it for one club.

The diversity of Ronaldo’s club career sets him apart in my book.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Anyone else like to see an end to the referee’s watch and hand the responsibility to a timekeeper?  30 or 35 minutes  each way, ball put into play, clock starts, ball put out of play clock stops. After time, finish as per rugby, first clean break in play.

I’m getting fed up to the back teeth of seeing referees tap their watch but do nothing about the offenders.
		
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Yep, the worst team in the last 20 years for me was that Chelsea of old London town. 

Seriously, we've all done it and benefitted from it and been on the end of it. However, I think a ref (or timekepper) should have the option to call the normal injury/celebrations/subs time, but of a side has been excessively timewasting, he can add on even more minutes as a punishment. So 4 for the former and an extra 2,3 for the latter.

its better than warning a keeper in the 25th minute, allowing him to get away with it another 5 times, then booking him in the 85the minute, which wastes another minute also, normally.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbh I'm not sure it's a case of him maybe being greatest ever.

But I agree that he's got this award for who he is, not what he's done.
		
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Lets face it its always been a best player in Spain award, maybe Italy years ago.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 29, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Just seen this, apparently it is the “selection criteria” given to journos for the Balon D’Or.


1. Individual and team performance in 2021 calendar year;
2. Talent and sportsmanship of the player;
3. The player’s overall career.

Why is 3 in there if it’s an annual award?
		
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4. The player must have "ESSI" in his name.


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## adam6177 (Nov 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m still not entirely sure why Messi is the pick of so many as the best player of all time, rather than Ronaldo.

I’m not for one moment disputing Messi’s class, but Ronaldo has performed consistently for clubs in three leagues. Until his move to PSG, Messi has confined himself to doing it for one club.

The diversity of Ronaldo’s club career sets him apart in my book.
		
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Ditto but vice versa for me ... I wouldn't ever deny Ronaldo's goal scoring stats, but for me Messi is the better player and a more natural talent.

But honestly... When someone is asked who the "best ever is" and they take a sharp intake of breath and start their sentence with Messi or Ronaldo... I just stop listening.  It's a ridiculous debate that denies some of the most graceful, powerful defenders from recent decades a mention, not to disregard play makers or box to box midfielders that have performed at the highest levels.

But this is why football will always bebated... Because opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one.


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## Billysboots (Nov 29, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Ditto but vice versa for me ... I wouldn't ever deny Ronaldo's goal scoring stats, but for me Messi is the better player and a more natural talent.

But honestly... When someone is asked who the "best ever is" and they take a sharp intake of breath and start their sentence with Messi or Ronaldo... I just stop listening.  It's a ridiculous debate that denies some of the most graceful, powerful defenders from recent decades a mention, not to disregard play makers or box to box midfielders that have performed at the highest levels.

But this is why football will always bebated... Because opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one.
		
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Don’t disagree at all. But it does surprise me that, when just the two of them are discussed, Messi seems the clear winner with so many.


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## Slime (Nov 29, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Pathetic award imo.
*Obv he's the greatest player of all time.* But his last year or even last few don't stack up to Lewandowski.
One has 128 goals in 107 games.
The other 120 in 141.
Both incredible. But clear winner imo.
		
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Uh, wrong!


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 29, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			4. The player must have "ESSI" in his name.
		
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Don't remember Michael Essien ever winning it...


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2021)

Not surprised to see two PSG players winning a french award (no matter who the judges are) 

Football is so corrupt 😂


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 29, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don't remember Michael Essien ever winning it... 

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He actually should've won it 4 times but they got confused while handing out the award and instead of giving it to M. ESSIen they gave it to MESSI instead.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Don’t disagree at all. But it does surprise me that, when just the two of them are discussed, Messi seems the clear winner with so many.
		
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Ronaldo is not really very likeable, on the pitch, I'm sure he is lovely off it (possibly 😉), whereas Messi is. Messi is a team player, Ronaldo looks after number 1 first.

Now, the above should not come into the discussion but we are human and so it does.

Yes, I'm another in the Messi camp. Not only is he superb, they both are, but he brings the rest of the team into the game more than Ronaldo does and that gives him the edge for me.

As others have said though, the ignoring of the great midfielders and defenders of our time is embarrassing when this discussion comes up.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ronaldo is not really very likeable, on the pitch, I'm sure he is lovely off it (possibly 😉), whereas Messi is. Messi is a team player, Ronaldo looks after number 1 first.

Now, the above should not come into the discussion but we are human and so it does.

Yes, I'm another in the Messi camp. Not only is he superb, they both are, but he brings the rest of the team into the game more than Ronaldo does and that gives him the edge for me.

As others have said though, the ignoring of the great midfielders and defenders of our time is embarrassing when this discussion comes up.
		
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I don’t think it’s embarrassing as such, more human nature, think about all the great games you’ve watched in person, on TV etc and I’d reckon 99% of memories will be great goals or games your team has won.

Give it a bit more thought and you can remember a great tackle or block, but that maybe behind a great save.

Great moments tend to be goals.

It doesn’t stop us mentioning world class defenders or goalkeepers and it doesn’t take anything away from their ability.

Think about how we grew up watching football, the majority will of dreamed about scoring a worldie or pulling off a miraculous save, it only be the ginger kids who dream about blocking a cross or winning a header from a corner.


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## Slime (Nov 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			4. The player must have "ESSI" in his name.
		
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Jessi Lingard?


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m still not entirely sure why Messi is the pick of so many as the best player of all time, rather than Ronaldo.

I’m not for one moment disputing Messi’s class, but Ronaldo has performed consistently for clubs in three leagues. Until his move to PSG, Messi has confined himself to doing it for one club.

The diversity of Ronaldo’s club career sets him apart in my book.
		
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I know the debate will be had until the end of time, but I'm a Ronaldo man personally. Has more to his game, i.e. aerial threat as well, was more two-footed for most of his career (Messi only worked on his right foot later on), has also reinvented himself from a left-winger to a central striker, and has done it in three different leagues whereas Messi has done it in one. If your team was playing horribly and you wanted one player to bring on to drag them kicking and screaming to victory, for my money it's Ronaldo. He's done it so many times over the years.

But anyway, this Ballon D'Or should have gone to Lewandowski. Case closed.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 30, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ronaldo is not really very likeable, on the pitch, I'm sure he is lovely off it (possibly 😉), whereas Messi is. Messi is a team player, Ronaldo looks after number 1 first.

Now, the above should not come into the discussion but we are human and so it does.

Yes, I'm another in the Messi camp. Not only is he superb, they both are, but he brings the rest of the team into the game more than Ronaldo does and that gives him the edge for me.

As others have said though, the ignoring of the great midfielders and defenders of our time is embarrassing when this discussion comes up.
		
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I'm not sure Messi really is that lovely. 

Lots of rumours of him being the one to effectively sake players and the friendly player vanished along the same time Barca stopped dominating. 

I agree players of other positions deserve more respect. We all pay get more excited by a wonder goal than a clean sheet.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not sure Messi really is that lovely.
		
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I may have been stretching that a bit  far but I am sure you get what I mean. Messi will set up a team mate, if a team mate scores he is happy for them. He doesn't need to be the centre of attention. I can still picture Ronaldo's sulk in the CL final when Bale scored. It was embarrassing and not a lone incident. Again, I accept, that is not pure, rational logic but since when has football been rational or logical. I am sure Messi does sulk, he just hides it better


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not sure Messi really is that lovely.

Lots of rumours of him being the one to effectively sake players and the friendly player vanished along the same time Barca stopped dominating.

I agree players of other positions deserve more respect. We all pay get more excited by a wonder goal than a clean sheet.
		
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In fairness though, the time of great defenders has almost past. Nowadays they've been reduced to quick, tall players who can pass a bit - John Stones for example is the typical modern defender. Defending isn't valued anymore. 10 or 15 years ago you had guys like Terry, Ferdinand, Vidic, Kompany, abroad you had Cannavaro, Puyol, Nesta etc. Nowadays the only one I can think of on that sort of level is Van Dijk.


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## Dando (Nov 30, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			In fairness though, the time of great defenders has almost past. Nowadays they've been reduced to quick, tall players who can pass a bit - John Stones for example is the typical modern defender. Defending isn't valued anymore. 10 or 15 years ago you had guys like Terry, Ferdinand, Vidic, Kompany, abroad you had Cannavaro, Puyol, Nesta etc. Nowadays the only one I can think of on that sort of level is Van Dijk.
		
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no Phil Jones?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			Uh, wrong!
		
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No wrong or right when it comes to those two 

For Me

Ronaldo is a better goalscorer
Messi is a better overall player 

Their records in regards trophies are be the similar both for club and country

They will both suit different types of style and manager 

If I could take one at their prime for the way we play right now it would be Messi 

When we played under Rafa it would be Ronaldo 

But I still would take Ronaldinho or Maradona over both of them 😁


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Yeah thats exactly what I'd do. Id allow the ref to make on field decisons but I would be checking they are correct if a goal is scored. You scrub off the goal in recognition that the ref got it wrong. For throw ins too if in the same passage of play the throwing team scores a goal. If the ball goes back as far as the centre circle and the play rebuilds from there - the corner/ throw in is a seperate passage of play. 

If we can wait 5 minutes to be pulled back for a peno taken just before HT and a rebound is allowed to be tapped in, then im happy to wait and have a goal scrubbed off for a team who have scored when it wasnt actually a corner or throw in. Why allow someone that advantage because you cant be bothered to check?

Im in the ground every week - VAR goal celebrations are getting easier again. You know if its dubious or not. Even more so if you're watching on TV with a zoomed in angle. We all knew McGinn's screamer at the weekend was a clear goal no matter what VAR checks and the limbs speak for themselves.
		
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Honestly, I personally think that is a horrific idea. You'd have a situation where a corner is wrongly given, or there is an offside leading to a corner. All the fans at home are aware of this, already seen the replay. Yet you have the ridiculous situation where the team are preparing to take the corner, and all the fans know at home that if a goal is scored it won't count. Imagine a Jiminez type skull fracture occuring from such a corner, when everybody at home knew that corner would never count anyway. If managers have seen the replay, they could just tell their defenders to not bother defending.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Honestly, I personally think that is a horrific idea. You'd have a situation where a corner is wrongly given, or there is an offside leading to a corner. All the fans at home are aware of this, already seen the replay. Yet you have the ridiculous situation where the team are preparing to take the corner, and all the fans know at home that if a goal is scored it won't count. Imagine a Jiminez type skull fracture occuring from such a corner, when everybody at home knew that corner would never count anyway. If managers have seen the replay, they could just tell their defenders to not bother defending.
		
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It takes so long to actually set up for one of these dead balls that in real time - the correct decision could have been passed to the ref anyway. Its not contentious like a foul, its fact - who did the ball touch last. 

Imagine a Jiminez skull fracture from a corner for his team that wasnt actually a corner in the first place but a GK? Totally avoidable with the correct decision.


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## Piece (Nov 30, 2021)

Gutted for Robert Lewandowski. Played the best football of his career in the last two years but doesn't have the worldwide gravitas that the other "names" have and thus misses out. I fear he has missed the boat and unjustly so.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



*Ronaldo is not really very likeable, on the pitch,* I'm sure he is lovely off it (possibly 😉), whereas Messi is. Messi is a team player, Ronaldo looks after number 1 first.

Now, the above should not come into the discussion but we are human and so it does.

Yes, I'm another in the Messi camp. Not only is he superb, they both are, but he brings the rest of the team into the game more than Ronaldo does and that gives him the edge for me.

As others have said though, the ignoring of the great midfielders and defenders of our time is embarrassing when this discussion comes up.
		
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Not sure I agree. I think the simple fact is, in the UK, he played for Manchester United. He was absolutely huge for Manchester United, and a key part of their success. So, many people who do not support Manchester United enjoy to see them fail, especially if they are fans of highly supported clubs like Liverpool. That, for me, is why many fans take an extra dislike to him in the UK. Probably a big part as to why a lot of fans dislike Sterling. I know race is often mentioned, and potentially part of it, but he effectively abandoned Liverpool, and so that is a huge number of fans that dislike him. On top of that, another huge number of fans, from Man Utd, also will tend to dislike him because he played for Liverpool and is now at City.

Football is tribal. If Messi had played for Man Utd, there is no doubt a lot of UK fans would have a big dislike towards him as well.

If you take tribalism away, what is there to dislike about Ronaldo? Does he bite people? Does he spit at people? Does he get sent off frequently? Does he get into trouble outside football? No, he has just scored an insane number of goals throughout his career, and potentially worked harder than any other footballer in the history of the game to achieve what he has done. He is also, in my opinion, more of a leader than Messi, as he is not afraid to communicate with his team.

Messi has always had the team advantage in that he grew up at Barcelona, and they trained all the young guys in a very specific way. By the time he got into the first team, the team performances from everyone were simply second nature. I think what Barcelona built when Messi was breaking through was unbelievable, and it made all their players shine.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			It takes so long to actually set up for one of these dead balls that in real time - the correct decision could have been passed to the ref anyway. Its not contentious like a foul, its fact - who did the ball touch last.

Imagine a Jiminez skull fracture from a corner for his team that wasnt actually a corner in the first place but a GK? Totally avoidable with the correct decision.
		
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I thought you said you'd only reverse the decision if a goal was scored, thus it does not matter how long it takes to take the corner, it will be taken anyway?

If a goal kick was awarded when it should have been a corner, would you get VAR to reverse the decision?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not sure I agree. I think the simple fact is, in the UK, he played for Manchester United. He was absolutely huge for Manchester United, and a key part of their success. So, many people who do not support Manchester United enjoy to see them fail, especially if they are fans of highly supported clubs like Liverpool. That, for me, is why many fans take an extra dislike to him in the UK. Probably a big part as to why a lot of fans dislike Sterling. I know race is often mentioned, and potentially part of it, but he effectively abandoned Liverpool, and so that is a huge number of fans that dislike him. On top of that, another huge number of fans, from Man Utd, also will tend to dislike him because he played for Liverpool and is now at City.

Football is tribal. If Messi had played for Man Utd, there is no doubt a lot of UK fans would have a big dislike towards him as well.

If you take tribalism away, what is there to dislike about Ronaldo? Does he bite people? Does he spit at people? Does he get sent off frequently? Does he get into trouble outside football? No, he has just scored an insane number of goals throughout his career, and potentially worked harder than any other footballer in the history of the game to achieve what he has done. He is also, in my opinion, more of a leader than Messi, as he is not afraid to communicate with his team.

Messi has always had the team advantage in that he grew up at Barcelona, and they trained all the young guys in a very specific way. By the time he got into the first team, the team performances from everyone were simply second nature. I think what Barcelona built when Messi was breaking through was unbelievable, and it made all their players shine.
		
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My dislike of Ronaldo isn’t down to him at one point playing for Man Utd

There is always a fine line between confidence and arrogance 

Ronaldo whilst he is a massively talented player always seemed to be beyond arrogant, the way at times he acted like a baby on the pitch - the strops , the histronics - never seemed to have much humility when playing the game. But it no doubt made him as good as he is 

And no manager dare substitute him or not start him - teddies everywhere 

Monumental player - even bigger arrogant baby


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## pokerjoke (Nov 30, 2021)

Anyway one thing we do know is Salah is nowhere near winning it.
Thought he was the best player in the world.
And don’t forget TAA is the best RB too.
Is it April the 1st


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Kante 5th best player in the world. He'd good, but is he that good?

Mbappe only 9th, is his early potential waning?

Sterling 15th best player in the world. Really?

Neymar as far down as 16th, haha

Simon Kjaer 18th. I assume that is for his medical skills rather than football ability?

Mount 19th. Didn't see that, but shows how well he has done since breaking onto the scene

Absentees: No Virgil Van Dyke, who I would have thought was potentially the best CB in the world? No TAA, so I assume there are a few who do not believe he is the best RB in the world (Azpilicueta was on the list). Paul Pogba's agent will be furious he is not on the list, all that money spent on hair dye, and for what?


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I thought you said you'd only reverse the decision if a goal was scored, thus it does not matter how long it takes to take the corner, it will be taken anyway?

If a goal kick was awarded when it should have been a corner, would you get VAR to reverse the decision?
		
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Not only if goals are scored. And if I did say that - its not what I meant .You can work it in many ways. These are simple decisions that could take seconds. 

Yes I would - you're denying a team a chance of scoring a goal from a set piece otherwise? If I support Burnley and we're against Man City - that corner could change a game?

All im after is the right decision. Not opinions on stuff - just fact. Whoever touched the ball last isnt up for debate - its black and white. Way easier to officiate than offside. 

If a decision takes a while - then of course on occasion a corner may be taken and then ruled off - as goals are now - but with the simple nature of "who touched it last" these decisons should take no time at all.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 30, 2021)

Isn’t the Ballon d’or just who Barca/Real Madrid want/love?
Lets be honest, until they stop playing or are 6 feet under they will still be awarding it to Messi or Ronaldo


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Kante 5th best player in the world. He'd good, but is he that good?

Mbappe only 9th, is his early potential waning?

Sterling 15th best player in the world. Really?

Neymar as far down as 16th, haha

Simon Kjaer 18th. I assume that is for his medical skills rather than football ability?

Mount 19th. Didn't see that, but shows how well he has done since breaking onto the scene

Absentees: No Virgil Van Dyke, who I would have thought was potentially the best CB in the world? No TAA, so I assume there are a few who do not believe he is the best RB in the world (Azpilicueta was on the list). Paul Pogba's agent will be furious he is not on the list, all that money spent on hair dye, and for what?
		
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Van Dyke didn’t return from injury until 8th August, so ineligible I’d of thought.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Not only if goals are scored. And if I did say that - its not what I meant .You can work it in many ways. These are simple decisions that could take seconds.

Yes I would - you're denying a team a chance of scoring a goal from a set piece otherwise? If I support Burnley and we're against Man City - that corner could change a game?

All im after is the right decision. Not opinions on stuff - just fact. Whoever touched the ball last isnt up for debate - its black and white. Way easier to officiate than offside.

If a decision takes a while - then of course on occasion a corner may be taken and then ruled off - as goals are now - but with the simple nature of "who touched it last" these decisons should take no time at all.
		
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I guess you would like to move towards VAR essentially moving towards making all decisions then. Whether it is a corner or not, whether it is a throw in or not, etc. Maybe one day we will get towards that, where essentially there is no need for a ref on the pitch, except for maybe communicating the VARs decision to players.

But, I think it is just completely sterilising the game. And, it creates a bigger gulf between top level football and lower leagues, who'd not have the money to implement the tech. 

Pre VAR, was football broken? Despite all the bad decisions that were made, did that result in a loss of fans? Does VAR bring more fans to the game? I seriously doubt it. But, I guess football is less about fans these days


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Van Dyke didn’t return from injury until 8th August, so ineligible I’d of thought.
		
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Good point, forgot about that injury.

Mind you, I always felt the Ballon d'Or was simply awarded to the best player in the world. The player that, if you were to set up a team tomorrow for the next few months, the one player you would want more than anyone else.

Now, I agree, some may want Messi still, and others would want Ronaldo also. How many fans / teams would pick Jorginho as the one player they'd want in their side? I'd doubt it would be many. I bet more teams would rather have Salah, VVD, DE Bruyne, etc.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Kante 5th best player in the world. He'd good, but is he that good?

Mbappe only 9th, is his early potential waning?

Sterling 15th best player in the world. Really?

Neymar as far down as 16th, haha

Simon Kjaer 18th. I assume that is for his medical skills rather than football ability?

Mount 19th. Didn't see that, but shows how well he has done since breaking onto the scene

Absentees: No Virgil Van Dyke, who I would have thought was potentially the best CB in the world? No TAA, so I assume there are a few who do not believe he is the best RB in the world (Azpilicueta was on the list). Paul Pogba's agent will be furious he is not on the list, all that money spent on hair dye, and for what?
		
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VVD was out injured most of the year

At the end of the day the award shortlist is decided by one French football magazine , and then more journalists vote from that shortlist

It’s been very weighted away from the Premier league and especially highlighted La Liga etc

There will be a lot of reactionary stuff in there like Kjaer for example

I’m not sure why it got as highly rated as it did - it used to be the European Footballer of the Year and it was a nice award but Messi and Ronaldo seem to have elevated it up

If it was voted by the players ( like the PFA POTY ) then I suspect it might hold more value

For the last couple of months Salah has been out of this world and it’s a giggle that he is 7th , Sterling in there is amusing as are some others - Kane 😂😂


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess you would like to move towards VAR essentially moving towards making all decisions then. Whether it is a corner or not, whether it is a throw in or not, etc. Maybe one day we will get towards that, where essentially there is no need for a ref on the pitch, except for maybe communicating the VARs decision to players.

But, I think it is just completely sterilising the game. And, it creates a bigger gulf between top level football and lower leagues, who'd not have the money to implement the tech.

Pre VAR, was football broken? Despite all the bad decisions that were made, did that result in a loss of fans? Does VAR bring more fans to the game? I seriously doubt it. But, I guess football is less about fans these days
		
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I guess thats where I'm going yeah. I think there is always a place for an on field ref, but tech needs to be used to help referees see what the naked eye cant. With the money in football - these decisions can cost teams millions of pounds. (EG - the ghost goal against villa two seasons ago)

Id argue it was broken pre-VAR - I remember almost every day on talk sport callers ringing up moaning about refs and calling for VAR to be intorduced - now we moan about VAR.. I suppose we will always moan!

They have improved the offside rulings though this season - thats for sure! A step in the right direction. You dont hear many complaints about it either.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 30, 2021)

Sad to see John Sillett has died. A great character in the game https://www.skysports.com/football/...-fa-cup-winning-manager-dies-at-the-age-of-85


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I guess thats where I'm going yeah. I think there is always a place for an on field ref, but tech needs to be used to help referees see what the naked eye cant. With the money in football - these decisions can cost teams millions of pounds. (EG - the ghost goal against villa two seasons ago)

Id argue it was broken pre-VAR - I remember almost every day on talk sport callers ringing up moaning about refs and calling for VAR to be intorduced - now we moan about VAR.. I suppose we will always moan!

They have improved the offside rulings though this season - thats for sure! A step in the right direction. *You dont hear many complaints about it either.*

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Certainly improved the farce that it was. So, less complaints about the decision being right or wrong.

But, as I mentioned previously, for me it takes away the pure joy of my team scoring in the moment. I am more often than not expecting a VAR review on a potential marginal offside. So, unless my team score a screamer, or a solo goal, where offside is barely likely, then I remain quite calm, and then it is more a feeling of relief when the game is kicked off again and goal awarded.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sad to see John Sillett has died. A great character in the game https://www.skysports.com/football/...-fa-cup-winning-manager-dies-at-the-age-of-85

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That cup final was one of the last great ones. Great characters, fashionable v unfashionable, cracking match and a wonderful diving header. John Sillett's grin and happiness after winning will stick with all who saw it.

(the romanticism is partly because there was precious other live football but even so it was a cracker and he came across as a likeable and big character)


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Certainly improved the farce that it was. So, less complaints about the decision being right or wrong.

But, as I mentioned previously, for me it takes away the pure joy of my team scoring in the moment. I am more often than not expecting a VAR review on a potential marginal offside. So, unless my team score a screamer, or a solo goal, where offside is barely likely, then I remain quite calm, and then it is more a feeling of relief when the game is kicked off again and goal awarded.
		
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I dont mean to come across as a "if you attended the games" type of guy - but if you did, I think you'd realise it doesnt ruin football in the ground.  We still have absolute limbs after the ball hits the back of the net. I realise in the modern day, not many fans are like me - travelling up and down the country every weekend is a big commitment and I myself will slow down with this soon as my son is due very soon!

I think some teams may face it more often than others too - in my head I am thinking Vardy must be caught a few times a season due to the nature of his game playing off the last man. You dont often see reviews of man city goals that have been built up by passing around the box.  

You know if a goal is contentious or not, and you celebrate accordingly. 

When at home watching on TV the additonal camera angles start beign shown etc - it does cast doubt, but thats down to the media outlets and what they want to show you. I will also note - they no longer show this on screens in the ground either. 

Different experiences for different fans isnt great though. But the right decision is always needed.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont mean to come across as a "if you attended the games" type of guy - but if you did, I think you'd realise it doesnt ruin football in the ground.  We still have absolute limbs after the ball hits the back of the net. I realise in the modern day, not many fans are like me - travelling up and down the country every weekend is a big commitment and I myself will slow down with this soon as my son is due very soon!

I think some teams may face it more often than others too - in my head I am thinking Vardy must be caught a few times a season due to the nature of his game playing off the last man. You dont often see reviews of man city goals that have been built up by passing around the box. 

You know if a goal is contentious or not, and you celebrate accordingly.

When at home watching on TV the additonal camera angles start beign shown etc - it does cast doubt, but thats down to the media outlets and what they want to show you. I will also note - they no longer show this on screens in the ground either.

Different experiences for different fans isnt great though. But the right decision is always needed.
		
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I can't speak for those that attend the games week in week out, though I've heard plenty of criticism from those that attend matches. Whether that is still the case, or game going fans agree with you is not for me to say.

But, the so called "arm chair fan" is key to the game, in that it is them that are making TV companies spend billions on the game, and in return opening the game to many more people that would never get a chance to go and see a game. So, it is crucial that VAR does not dampen their emotional attachment to the game. If it just starts becoming more sterile, there will become a point it will be difficult to entice more people to the game. It is not just VAR I'd add, there are probably other factors as well, such as changing of the rules and rewarding players that fall over under minimal contact (which there seems to be a philosophy of doing that less this season by officials)


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Anyway one thing we do know is Salah is nowhere near winning it.
Thought he was the best player in the world.
And don’t forget TAA is the best RB too.
Is it April the 1st
		
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Dont forget to add Pokerjoke in sensible post shocker to that list.


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 30, 2021)

Piece said:



			Gutted for Robert Lewandowski. Played the best football of his career in the last two years but doesn't have the worldwide gravitas that the other "names" have and thus misses out. I fear he has missed the boat and unjustly so.
		
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Just a bit of  irrelevant information but Lewandowski nearly signed for “The Once Mighty Rovers” in 2010 when Big Sam was in charge. The ash cloud in Iceland prevented him from travelling and as they say, the rest is history!

But speaking in 2017, Lewandowski said: "I could not fly to Blackburn because of the volcano but I wanted to go there just to see what the club is like because I didn't know back then where I was going because if I travelled there, I would then know which is the best club for me.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I can't speak for those that attend the games week in week out, though I've heard plenty of criticism from those that attend matches. Whether that is still the case, or game going fans agree with you is not for me to say.

But, the so called "arm chair fan" is key to the game, in that it is them that are making TV companies spend billions on the game, and in return opening the game to many more people that would never get a chance to go and see a game. So, it is crucial that VAR does not dampen their emotional attachment to the game. If it just starts becoming more sterile, there will become a point it will be difficult to entice more people to the game. It is not just VAR I'd add, there are probably other factors as well, such as changing of the rules and rewarding players that fall over under minimal contact (which there seems to be a philosophy of doing that less this season by officials)
		
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And overseas fans too! Lets not forget the BILLIONS that are made from TV rights abroad who are just "football fans" without any real links to teams. 

I still think getting all decisions right is important, but you are right - it cant impede the game, it must compliment it. 

I feel VAR came in too early, too unproven and was rushed. In future id hope they test things for a season in the background before implementing directly into the league.


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## DanFST (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			But, the so called "arm chair fan" is key to the game, in that it is them that are making TV companies spend billions on the game, and in return opening the game to many more people that would never get a chance to go and see a game.
		
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Heavy disagree. I only care for West Ham, but I'll watch any game that's televised if i'm free. I would hazard a guess most people do. Pubs/ businesses just buy licenses and rights for each tv for the season, not per game/team. The arm chair fan contributes almost nothing.

There is absolutely no reason not to try and go to a game or two a season, unless you can't be bothered making an effort or it being a priority. Supporters clubs, forums, cup games there is always a way. There are thousands of fans coming from all corners of the globe each week. I'm not sure about @Bdill93 but most actual supporters I know get annoyed by armchairs/twitter idiots sense of importance and to the extreme could care less if games were even televised.

(EDIT: Actually TV is incredibly annoying as games get moved, especially near xmas)


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Heavy disagree. I only care for West Ham, but I'll watch any game that's televised if i'm free. I would hazard a guess most people do. Pubs/ businesses just buy licenses and rights for each tv for the season, not per game/team. The arm chair fan contributes almost nothing.

There is absolutely no reason not to try and go to a game or two a season, unless you can't be bothered making an effort or it being a priority. Supporters clubs, forums, cup games there is always a way. There are thousands of fans coming from all corners of the globe each week. I'm not sure about @Bdill93 but most actual supporters I know get annoyed by armchairs/twitter idiots sense of importance and to the extreme could care less if games were even televised.
		
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I get annoyed by them but accept that money talks in football.

Football twitter is a world of its own  Clubs seem to react more to social media opinion these days though - many fans I know werent calling for Dean Smiths head just yet - the twitter fans were and they got their way.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Heavy disagree. I only care for West Ham, but I'll watch any game that's televised if i'm free. I would hazard a guess most people do. Pubs/ businesses just buy licenses and rights for each tv for the season, not per game/team. *The arm chair fan contributes almost nothing.*

There is absolutely no reason not to try and go to a game or two a season, unless you can't be bothered making an effort or it being a priority. Supporters clubs, forums, cup games there is always a way. There are thousands of fans coming from all corners of the globe each week. I'm not sure about @Bdill93 but most actual supporters I know get annoyed by armchairs/twitter idiots sense of importance and to the extreme could care less if games were even televised.

(EDIT: Actually TV is incredibly annoying as games get moved, especially near xmas)
		
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Absolute nonsense, The big Clubs have admitted they can play behind closed doors and still make a profit.
Are you saying fans in the far east/Australia etc don’t deserve to be called a fan as they contribute almost nothing!!

I’ll always back the opinion of a match going fan over the telly clapper but to dismiss them the way you do is ridiculous.

What if a telly clapper went to home and away games for years, but financially can no longer afford to go.

Clubs/Football need all fans, regardless of circumstance.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Heavy disagree. I only care for West Ham, but I'll watch any game that's televised if i'm free. I would hazard a guess most people do. Pubs/ businesses just buy licenses and rights for each tv for the season, not per game/team. The arm chair fan contributes almost nothing.

There is absolutely no reason not to try and go to a game or two a season, unless you can't be bothered making an effort or it being a priority. Supporters clubs, forums, cup games there is always a way. There are thousands of fans coming from all corners of the globe each week. I'm not sure about @Bdill93 but most actual supporters I know get annoyed by armchairs/twitter idiots sense of importance and to the extreme could care less if games were even televised.

(EDIT: Actually TV is incredibly annoying as games get moved, especially near xmas)
		
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You basically proved your first 2 words completely wrong by the remainder of your post. You are the arm Chair fan I refer to when you watch games on TV. If they were not on TV, you'd not be watching those games


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## DanFST (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Absolute nonsense, The* big Clubs* have admitted they can play behind closed doors and still make a profit.
Are you saying fans in the far east/Australia etc don’t deserve to be called a fan as they contribute almost nothing!!
		
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You wouldn't know on the internet, but there are 72 clubs in the EFL. "There are thousands of fans coming from all corners of the globe each week" - they contribute.

There maybe some niche cases where someone can no longer afford to go to a game a season. But normally it's a case of they'd rather spend the money on something else. And in your example they most likely wouldn't think like the armchair lot do, most fans across the leagues do pretty much the same thing every week, whether it be going with their families as tradition or having tinnies on a train at sunrise. And almost all hate Sky.


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## DanFST (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			You basically proved your first 2 words completely wrong by the remainder of your post. You are the arm Chair fan I refer to when you watch games on TV. If they were not on TV, you'd not be watching those games
		
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There is no pull factor to me watching those games, I am doing it because I have nothing better to do. Why should I have any say in things that have pushed people to go halfway up the country to watch *their* team lose in the freezing cold. It makes almost no difference to me if they are on or not. 

I agree with you on the diving, but VAR actually is quite emotional in the ground, it's anything but sterile.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

DanFST said:



			You wouldn't know on the internet, but there are 72 clubs in the EFL. "There are thousands of fans coming from all corners of the globe each week" - they contribute.

There maybe some niche cases where someone can no longer afford to go to a game a season. But normally it's a case of they'd rather spend the money on something else. And in your example they most likely wouldn't think like the armchair lot do, most fans across the leagues do pretty much the same thing every week, whether it be going with their families as tradition or having tinnies on a train at sunrise. And almost all hate Sky.
		
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No it’s not, I live near Sunderland, have only seen Everton once live in 3 seasons, seen Sunderland about 10 times and Hartlepool twice in the same period. Should I only discuss, have an opinion on EFL Football

As for almost all hating Sky, the loudest only hate Sky when it moves the kick off, they say nothing about the money it’s bringing in to the Club enabling them to buy players or keep ticket prices lower than they want. 

ie Sunderland fans now have to leave at 4:00am in a few weeks as their away game at Wycombe has been moved, absolute no issues with home fixtures.

There are millions of fans who can’t afford to go the game across the Country and whose only chance of seeing them is when they are on Telly.

Dismissing them and lumping all those together who don’t go to games as contributing almost nothing is shallow.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Absolute nonsense, The big Clubs have admitted they can play behind closed doors and still make a profit.
Are you saying fans in the far east/Australia etc don’t deserve to be called a fan as they contribute almost nothing!!

I’ll always back the opinion of a match going fan over the telly clapper but to dismiss them the way you do is ridiculous.

What if a telly clapper went to home and away games for years, but financially can no longer afford to go.

Clubs/Football need all fans, regardless of circumstance.
		
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I use to go home and away with Fulham and did 86 grounds with them in my time. Went away with England several times to so feel I did my due. Can't go these days for a number of reasons but still feel I am entitled to an opinion on my team and any match I watch. I still manage to get to 6-10 home games plus a couple of away games (Reading in particular!!!). I reckon there are thousands of PL and EFL fans that did go and watch and can no longer go anymore


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I use to go home and away with Fulham and did 86 grounds with them in my time. Went away with England several times to so feel I did my due. Can't go these days for a number of reasons but still feel I am entitled to an opinion on my team and any match I watch. I still manage to get to 6-10 home games plus a couple of away games (Reading in particular!!!). I reckon there are thousands of PL and EFL fans that did go and watch and can no longer go anymore
		
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Exactly, maybe someone can tell us were the line/difference is between Telly Clapper, Armchair Supporter and Proper Fan.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

Ah can’t beat the old arrogance when a match going fan informs other that don’t go that they contribute nothing

A stadium hold 40k to 60k fans - some clubs have millions of worldwide fans and some will never get the chance to watch the team play live - doesn’t mean they don’t “contribute nothing”

Those fans will no doubt spend a significant amount on broadcasting as well as merchandise which goes to the club and also look at some of the attendances when clubs go on tours

This year I have seen three non league games as well as about 6 EFL games at various teams close to me - I’m not a fan of any of the teams  - used to go to Liverpool regularly when living in Chester in the 80’s and then again in 00’s when at Shrewsbury but it’s not practical these days 

The game is more than the fans in the ground now and it changed when Sky came along , those big stadiums and high quality players get paid a lot because of that sky money coming into clubs. It’s a huge worldwide business now - not perfect but it’s helped produce some amazing talent and brilliant football to watch.

The sport has evolved - the Prem certainly needs to spread the wealth a lot more downward - 90% of all the sports wealth is in the Prem and that’s not right but then agents , players demand the big money and the clubs need to find ways to get the big money - vicious circle

There are wannabe experts everywhere- happy if someone wants to bracket me that way but it doesn’t matter if you watch in the stadium and watch on a sofa - doesn’t mean your opinion is any less worthy than the other.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VVD was out injured most of the year

At the end of the day the award shortlist is decided by one French football magazine , and then more journalists vote from that shortlist

It’s been very weighted away from the Premier league and especially highlighted La Liga etc

There will be a lot of reactionary stuff in there like Kjaer for example

I’m not sure why it got as highly rated as it did - it used to be the European Footballer of the Year and it was a nice award but Messi and Ronaldo seem to have elevated it up

If it was voted by the players ( like the PFA POTY ) then I suspect it might hold more value

For the last couple of months Salah has been out of this world and it’s a giggle that he is 7th , Sterling in there is amusing as are some others - Kane 😂😂
		
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That’s it Phil bloody obvious really Salah is not in this world he’s “Out of this world “,so I presume ineligible to win it


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## pendodave (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Exactly, maybe someone can tell us were the line/difference is between Telly Clapper, Armchair Supporter and Proper Fan.
		
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As someone who does a bit of both, I think that the view of the game and the performance of the players is much better appreciated in person than on the telly. I'd always hold the opinions of an attendee in a higher regard than a remote fan.

My own very personal opinion is also that someone who physically supports a club gets more of a pass for talking nonsense than the telly watchers. The effort, time and financial  commitment deserves respect. I have very little respect for telly watchers spouting guff and giving it the big one.


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## DanFST (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			No it’s not, I live near Sunderland, have only seen Everton once live in 3 seasons.
		
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https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2357635/everton-v-leicester-city-on-general-sale There you go!



HomerJSimpson said:



			Can't go these days for a number of reasons but still feel I am entitled to an opinion on my team and any match I watch. I still manage to get to 6-10 home games plus a couple of away games
		
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That's the thing Homie, you aren't going week in week out, but you are still making an effort and contribution. You've done your due, your mindset and priorities are most likely very different to people that don't / have never.  For example as a hammer the internet tells me Spurs is the best away day. That's not true. Burnley is a cracker, drinking with the home fans at the cricket club. Then a ropey night out after. Everton is crap because we always lose and you can't see anything. A Supporter can appreciate that but it won't even cross an armchairs mind.




Liverpoolphil said:



			but it’s not practical these days
		
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And that's the issue. Supporters don't have the luxury of doing whats practical. They spend time organising travel and their season as soon as the fixture list comes out. Some would actually die for the club. Their opinion deserves more credence than someone who doesn't go because it "isn't practical". We have supporters groups all over the world that make it to a home game once a year, as I'm sure most clubs across the league system do.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

The guy who sits next to me at villa park travels from Carlisle for every home game. Ive missed more games than him in the last 3 years 

Albeit he doesnt go away these days!

Now thats a fan.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

DanFST said:



https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2357635/everton-v-leicester-city-on-general-sale There you go!



That's the thing Homie, you aren't going week in week out, but you are still making an effort and contribution. You've done your due, your mindset and priorities are most likely very different to people that don't / have never.  For example as a hammer the internet tells me Spurs is the best away day. That's not true. Burnley is a cracker, drinking with the home fans at the cricket club. Then a ropey night out after. Everton is crap because we always lose and you can't see anything. A Supporter can appreciate that but it won't even cross an armchairs mind.




And that's the issue. Supporters don't have the luxury of doing whats practical. They spend time organising travel and their season as soon as the fixture list comes out. Some would actually die for the club. Their opinion deserves more credence than someone who doesn't go because it "isn't practical". We have supporters groups all over the world that make it to a home game once a year, as I'm sure most clubs across the league system do.
		
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It’s only an issue if people want to point fingers at other peoples support 

Peoples situations and life changes through the years - life , work and family changes for people - I will never understand why some people constantly want to pigeon hole peoples support for the club . I will always respect and be jealous of someone who has the time and means to go to every single game - but you don’t have the right to tell someone they don’t contribute because someone can’t go to games for whatever reason.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

pendodave said:



			As someone who does a bit of both, I think that the view of the game and the performance of the players is much better appreciated in person than on the telly. I'd always hold the opinions of an attendee in a higher regard than a remote fan.

My own very personal opinion is also that someone who physically supports a club gets more of a pass for talking nonsense than the telly watchers. The effort, time and financial  commitment deserves respect. I have very little respect for telly watchers spouting guff and giving it the big one.
		
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I 100% agree, although was told I was wrong when I said this on here a few months ago.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Exactly, maybe someone can tell us were the line/difference is between Telly Clapper, Armchair Supporter and Proper Fan.
		
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Love being labelled a telly clapper. There are more important things in life now than a round trip of 360 miles to home games.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

pendodave said:



			As someone who does a bit of both, I think that the view of the game and the performance of the players is much better appreciated in person than on the telly. I'd always hold the opinions of an attendee in a higher regard than a remote fan.

My own very personal opinion is also that someone who physically supports a club gets more of a pass for talking nonsense than the telly watchers. The effort, time and financial  commitment deserves respect. *I have very little respect for telly watchers spouting guff and giving it the big one.*

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But, a guy that goes to the game can spout as much garbage he wants, and he gets your respect. Makes sense. I'd respect his commitment, of course I would. But, I only respect his opinion if he earns it, and simply going to a game doesn't meet the full criteria for me. On the other hand, there are plenty of football fans I know and respect their opinions.

The type of fan I am losing more and more respect for is the arrogant type, who goes to games and then tells 90%+ of all other fans that their opinions are not respected because they do not go to games. Why should they be respected, they've effectively shut down any football debate before it even begins, because if they do not agree with you, they simply fall back on the "well, you don't go to games so I cannot respect your opinion". The type of fan I respect a lot is the type that goes to games, but is happy and open to debate football to anyone who wishes to discuss it. The ex director of my company went to every single Chelsea game, home and away. We chatted football a lot, and not once did he ever get close to using that card on me. He simply chatted football to me like he would anyone else, whether they go to games or not.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

DanFST said:



https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2357635/everton-v-leicester-city-on-general-sale* There you go!*



That's the thing Homie, you aren't going week in week out, but you are still making an effort and contribution. You've done your due, your mindset and priorities are most likely very different to people that don't / have never.  For example as a hammer the internet tells me Spurs is the best away day. That's not true. Burnley is a cracker, drinking with the home fans at the cricket club. Then a ropey night out after. Everton is crap because we always lose and you can't see anything. A Supporter can appreciate that but it won't even cross an armchairs mind.




And that's the issue. Supporters don't have the luxury of doing whats practical. They spend time organising travel and their season as soon as the fixture list comes out. Some would actually die for the club. Their opinion deserves more credence than someone who doesn't go because it "isn't practical". We have supporters groups all over the world that make it to a home game once a year, as I'm sure most clubs across the league system do.
		
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*There you go what?*

Tickets are available for virtually every Club for every game!

Or are you vetting us on here now and wanting me to give you my personal circumstances and justify why I haven’t been home to Liverpool for 3 years.

Plenty of us on here have followed our Clubs home and away and even in to Europe in the 80’s and depending on ages of people I can assure you some of us have been to more games than some currently attending matches.

What next? A time frame?

As for your other points, the only time a match goers opinion is more important than the telly clapper is if they are talking about a game they were at or one of their players, otherwise they are the same as everyone else


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			But, a guy that goes to the game can spout as much garbage he wants, and he gets your respect. Makes sense. I'd respect his commitment, of course I would. But, I only respect his opinion if he earns it, and simply going to a game doesn't meet the full criteria for me. On the other hand, there are plenty of football fans I know and respect their opinions.

*The type of fan I am losing more and more respect for is the arrogant type, who goes to games and then tells 90%+ of all other fans that their opinions are not respected because they do not go to games. Why should they be respected, they've effectively shut down any football debate before it even begins, because if they do not agree with you, they simply fall back on the "well, you don't go to games so I cannot respect your opinion*". The type of fan I respect a lot is the type that goes to games, but is happy and open to debate football to anyone who wishes to discuss it. The ex director of my company went to every single Chelsea game, home and away. We chatted football a lot, and not once did he ever get close to using that card on me. He simply chatted football to me like he would anyone else, whether they go to games or not.
		
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Id like to add - my points previous were not aimed at being this guy - I was simply putting across my views from what I see inside the stadiums. Ive enjoyed our debate this morning


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

I do hope Norwich beat Newcastle tonight..

Up the Dean Smith!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465692463939481600
sad News 😢


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 30, 2021)

ie Sunderland fans now have to leave at 4:00am in a few weeks as their away game at Wycombe has been moved, absolute no issues with home fixtures.


Paul, I think 4 a.m is a tad early to leave Sunderland when the kick off is 12.30. The trip takes around 4.45 hours so the  pubs may not be open @8.45!
However I do take your point about it being inconvenient, perhaps it would be an opportunity to be a tele clapper but they are a fanatical set of fans


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2021)

DanFST said:



			That's the thing Homie, you aren't going week in week out, but you are still making an effort and contribution. You've done your due, your mindset and priorities are most likely very different to people that don't / have never.  For example as a hammer the internet tells me Spurs is the best away day. That's not true. Burnley is a cracker, drinking with the home fans at the cricket club. Then a ropey night out after. Everton is crap because we always lose and you can't see anything. A Supporter can appreciate that but it won't even cross an armchairs mind.
		
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What does any of that have to do with what's happening on the pitch?




			And that's the issue. Supporters don't have the luxury of doing whats practical. They spend time organising travel and their season as soon as the fixture list comes out. Some would actually die for the club. Their opinion deserves more credence than someone who doesn't go because it "isn't practical". We have supporters groups all over the world that make it to a home game once a year, as I'm sure most clubs across the league system do.
		
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Just because you would die before missing a game, doesn't mean you have the foggiest clue what's going on on the pitch. When I used to go to Spurs games I heard plenty of absolute awful shouts from some braindead morons, who were no doubt there every single week. Surely we all have?? Sorry, I just don't see the correlation between how you spend your money and your Saturdays, and actually having knowledge about the game. One of my mates inexplicably supports Roma despite being English, so evidently he doesn't get to many live games, but to say he can't have an opinion about football would be farcical.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			ie Sunderland fans now have to leave at 4:00am in a few weeks as their away game at Wycombe has been moved, absolute no issues with home fixtures.


Paul, I think 4 a.m is a tad early to leave Sunderland when the kick off is 12.30. The trip takes around 4.45 hours so the  pubs may not be open @8.45!
However I do take your point about it being inconvenient, perhaps it would be an opportunity to be a tele clapper but they are a fanatical set of fans
		
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My mate, who goes and is going to said match, was chatting to me last night and that’s what time him and his dad are leaving home to meet up with the coach that they’re going on.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

What is wrong with leaving at 4am anyway. These "die hard" fans are prepared to travel many miles to see their team, so how come they have no issue with distance, but do with the time of day? Does it not mean they get home earlier at least? Also, the traffic may be a bit better at 4am in the morning.

At the end of the day, if you are the type of person who is willing to travel nearly 300 miles to a game of football, don't be moaning that you might have to get up a bit early.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			What is wrong with leaving at 4am anyway. These "die hard" fans are prepared to travel many miles to see their team, so how come they have no issue with distance, but do with the time of day? Does it not mean they get home earlier at least? Also, the traffic may be a bit better at 4am in the morning.

At the end of the day, if you are the type of person who is willing to travel nearly 300 miles to a game of football, don't be moaning that you might have to get up a bit early.
		
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Are you being serious?

The fixture has been moved by Sky, it has a knock on effect, people arrange travel, ie, may of purchased train tickets in advance, may of changed work shifts or even childcare etc.


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## IanM (Nov 30, 2021)

And regardless of what Google says, you are not going to do a trip like that without lots of contingency built in.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			What is wrong with leaving at 4am anyway. These "die hard" fans are prepared to travel many miles to see their team, so how come they have no issue with distance, but do with the time of day? Does it not mean they get home earlier at least? Also, the traffic may be a bit better at 4am in the morning.

At the end of the day, if you are the type of person who is willing to travel nearly 300 miles to a game of football, don't be moaning that you might have to get up a bit early.
		
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Mornings arent for me.... but its easier getting up at 4am for Villa than 7am for work


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

Look at some these tackles😂😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465348684367941637


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you being serious?

The fixture has been moved by Sky, it has a knock on effect, people arrange travel, ie, may of purchased train tickets in advance, may of changed work shifts or even childcare etc.
		
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To be fair, I don't know how long in advance fixtures are changed by Sky? Or, how much cheaper it would be to book travel before these times are changes compared to waiting until the kick off is confirmed.

I guess my point is, if you are prepared to travel 300 miles to a game of football, then there are going to be long journeys that require early starts and / or late finishes. It would also make sense to make preparations when you know the time / date is confirmed. If you struggle to do that, then you have to ask is this a risk you are prepared to take or not? No one forces anyone to go to the games, so those that do do so knowing these sorts of things can be a pain in the backside at times. I'm sure many plan their travels using experience to cause the least amount of potential grief.

What would the alternative solution be to avoid this problem? Would it be simply not to televise it on Sky?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Mornings arent for me.... but its easier getting up at 4am for Villa than 7am for work 

Click to expand...

I have the same feeling for playing golf.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I have the same feeling for playing golf.
		
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Oh same  I have better lie ins in the week than at weekends these days


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			To be fair, I don't know how long in advance fixtures are changed by Sky? Or, how much cheaper it would be to book travel before these times are changes compared to waiting until the kick off is confirmed.

I guess my point is, if you are prepared to travel 300 miles to a game of football, then there are going to be long journeys that require early starts and / or late finishes. It would also make sense to make preparations when you know the time / date is confirmed. If you struggle to do that, then you have to ask is this a risk you are prepared to take or not? No one forces anyone to go to the games, so those that do do so knowing these sorts of things can be a pain in the backside at times. I'm sure many plan their travels using experience to cause the least amount of potential grief.

What would the alternative solution be to avoid this problem? *Would it be simply not to televise it on Sky?*



			In some cases yes, Sky have never cared about the fans, look at the debacle every Christmas.

You really can’t put all this on the fans and them needing to be flexible or to “put up with whatever”
		
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## DanFST (Nov 30, 2021)

With most things, I agree. Especially under lights if most are seeing double.

But in this specific instance it was related to VAR and It's effect on the atmosphere. Mine and Bills original point was that in the ground it's pretty emotional, and increases the atmosphere. If VAR makes the atmosphere "sterile" in someone's front room and makes them cancel their sky subscription. Fair enough. It'll take that trade for no absolute howler of decisions. That's the main discussion here. 



Orikoru said:



			What does any of that have to do with what's happening on the pitch?


Just because you would die before missing a game, doesn't mean you have the foggiest clue what's going on on the pitch. When I used to go to Spurs games I heard plenty of absolute awful shouts from some braindead morons, who were no doubt there every single week. Surely we all have?? Sorry, I just don't see the correlation between how you spend your money and your Saturdays, and actually having knowledge about the game. One of my mates inexplicably supports Roma despite being English, so evidently he doesn't get to many live games, but to say he can't have an opinion about football would be farcical.
		
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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			To be fair, I don't know how long in advance fixtures are changed by Sky? Or, how much cheaper it would be to book travel before these times are changes compared to waiting until the kick off is confirmed.

I guess my point is, if you are prepared to travel 300 miles to a game of football, then there are going to be long journeys that require early starts and / or late finishes. It would also make sense to make preparations when you know the time / date is confirmed. If you struggle to do that, then you have to ask is this a risk you are prepared to take or not? No one forces anyone to go to the games, so those that do do so knowing these sorts of things can be a pain in the backside at times. I'm sure many plan their travels using experience to cause the least amount of potential grief.

What would the alternative solution be to avoid this problem? Would it be simply not to televise it on Sky?
		
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Ive had one game thats moved this season AFTER me buying a ticket - moved to midweek. We do usually get good notice.

Was a ball ache but I made KO  JUST!


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

If they just stopped showing matches on Sky, would the club get less revenue from Sky than they do already? What about all the fans of that club that cannot make the game. Do you rob them of watching the match just so the travelling fans can have a lie in?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

DanFST said:



			With most things, I agree. Especially under lights if most are seeing double.

But in this specific instance it was related to VAR and It's effect on the atmosphere. Mine and Bills original point was that in the ground it's pretty emotional, and increases the atmosphere. If VAR makes the atmosphere "sterile" in someone's front room and makes them cancel their sky subscription. Fair enough. It'll take that trade for no absolute howler of decisions. That's the main discussion here.
		
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Sorry I didn’t realise it was about VAR 

The initial months of VAR wasn’t great for the fans in the stadium because they were unsure what was going on so left a little in the dark where as the guys watching on Telly could understand what was happening and why 

There is no “atmosphere” as such in a front room and can never really be one -  and VAR hasn’t really changed that. If someone cancels because of vAR that to me is plain daft

And I’m not a fan of VAR


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If they just stopped showing matches on Sky, would the club get less revenue from Sky than they do already? What about all the fans of that club that cannot make the game. Do you rob them of watching the match just so the travelling fans can have a lie in?
		
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You are just being awkward and taking it to ridiculous extremes, no more replies to you from me.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Ive had one game thats moved this season AFTER me buying a ticket - moved to midweek. We do usually get good notice.

Was a ball ache but I made KO  JUST!
		
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That sounds like a nightmare, not sure if that is just a one off balls up on an administrative point? I'd certainly want to know at what point before a match in which the date and time are confirmed.


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			What is wrong with leaving at 4am anyway. These "die hard" fans are prepared to travel many miles to see their team, so how come they have no issue with distance, but do with the time of day? Does it not mean they get home earlier at least? Also, the traffic may be a bit better at 4am in the morning.

At the end of the day, if you are the type of person who is willing to travel nearly 300 miles to a game of football, don't be moaning that you might have to get up a bit early.
		
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 Cannot recall anybody saying there was anything wrong with leaving @4a.m.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You are just being awkward and taking it to ridiculous extremes, no more replies to you from me.
		
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You are the one that suggested not showing the match on Sky, not me. Mine was a perfectly normal response to such a brainstorming suggestion. If Man Utd were going to be shown on Sky at 12:30pm, but then then it was decided not to show them so the game could be played at 3pm, I'd personally be annoyed. I know I wouldn't be the only one. And, if Man Utd were told that they'd receive less revenue from Sky because they wanted to play more games at 3pm for travelling fans, I'm pretty sure both the club AND fans would give it second thoughts.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			That sounds like a nightmare, not sure if that is just a one off balls up on an administrative point? I'd certainly want to know at what point before a match in which the date and time are confirmed.
		
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I think it was due to them progressing in other competitions etc - things happen!

Usually well in advance (month or two) - when the TV channels choose which games are going to live on TV. Some clubs must get used to it - Liverpool v United will always be moved for TV. As a Villain, id say only 20/30% of games are played outside of the weekend.


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Look at some these tackles😂😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465348684367941637

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Well that was why he was “chopper Harris”! Some horrendous challenges there.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Well that was why he was “chopper Harris”! Some horrendous challenges there.
		
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Where was VAR when you needed it.


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## Piece (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Exactly, maybe someone can tell us were the line/difference is between Telly Clapper, Armchair Supporter and Proper Fan.
		
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There isn't really. I've met many match going fans who don't fully understand what they are watching and/or the laws of football. Conversely, I've met "armchair fans" who know the game.


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## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2021)

DanFST said:



			With most things, I agree. Especially under lights if most are seeing double.

But in this specific instance it was related to VAR and It's effect on the atmosphere. Mine and Bills original point was that in the ground it's pretty emotional, and increases the atmosphere. If VAR makes the atmosphere "sterile" in someone's front room and makes them cancel their sky subscription. Fair enough. It'll take that trade for no absolute howler of decisions. That's the main discussion here.
		
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Fair enough. Apologies for diving into the middle then.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think it’s embarrassing as such, more human nature, think about all the great games you’ve watched in person, on TV etc and I’d reckon 99% of memories will be great goals or games your team has won.

Give it a bit more thought and you can remember a great tackle or block, but that maybe behind a great save.

Great moments tend to be goals.

It doesn’t stop us mentioning world class defenders or goalkeepers and it doesn’t take anything away from their ability.

Think about how we grew up watching football, the majority will of dreamed about scoring a worldie or pulling off a miraculous save, it only be the ginger kids who dream about blocking a cross or winning a header from a corner.

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Pele and Banks would deffo get a mention


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			Jessi Lingard?  

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If that’s allowed Christiano will become Dessi Ronaldo.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not sure I agree. I think the simple fact is, in the UK, he played for Manchester United. He was absolutely huge for Manchester United, and a key part of their success. So, many people who do not support Manchester United enjoy to see them fail, especially if they are fans of highly supported clubs like Liverpool. That, for me, is why many fans take an extra dislike to him in the UK. Probably a big part as to why a lot of fans dislike Sterling. I know race is often mentioned, and potentially part of it, but he effectively abandoned Liverpool, and so that is a huge number of fans that dislike him. On top of that, another huge number of fans, from Man Utd, also will tend to dislike him because he played for Liverpool and is now at City.

Football is tribal. If Messi had played for Man Utd, there is no doubt a lot of UK fans would have a big dislike towards him as well.

If you take tribalism away, what is there to dislike about Ronaldo? Does he bite people? Does he spit at people? Does he get sent off frequently? Does he get into trouble outside football? No, he has just scored an insane number of goals throughout his career, and potentially worked harder than any other footballer in the history of the game to achieve what he has done. He is also, in my opinion, more of a leader than Messi, as he is not afraid to communicate with his team.

Messi has always had the team advantage in that he grew up at Barcelona, and they trained all the young guys in a very specific way. By the time he got into the first team, the team performances from everyone were simply second nature. I think what Barcelona built when Messi was breaking through was unbelievable, and it made all their players shine.
		
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That’s a very good post and so true.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not sure I agree. I think the simple fact is, in the UK, he played for Manchester United. He was absolutely huge for Manchester United, and a key part of their success. So, many people who do not support Manchester United enjoy to see them fail, especially if they are fans of highly supported clubs like Liverpool. That, for me, is why many fans take an extra dislike to him in the UK. Probably a big part as to why a lot of fans dislike Sterling. I know race is often mentioned, and potentially part of it, but he effectively abandoned Liverpool, and so that is a huge number of fans that dislike him. On top of that, another huge number of fans, from Man Utd, also will tend to dislike him because he played for Liverpool and is now at City.

Football is tribal. If Messi had played for Man Utd, there is no doubt a lot of UK fans would have a big dislike towards him as well.

If you take tribalism away, what is there to dislike about Ronaldo? Does he bite people? Does he spit at people? Does he get sent off frequently? Does he get into trouble outside football? No, he has just scored an insane number of goals throughout his career, and potentially worked harder than any other footballer in the history of the game to achieve what he has done. He is also, in my opinion, more of a leader than Messi, as he is not afraid to communicate with his team.

Messi has always had the team advantage in that he grew up at Barcelona, and they trained all the young guys in a very specific way. By the time he got into the first team, the team performances from everyone were simply second nature. I think what Barcelona built when Messi was breaking through was unbelievable, and it made all their players shine.
		
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Re Messi or Ronaldo who is best, put me in the Messi camp. But only just. Totally agree about tribal. But the thing that edges it for me is Ronaldo diving. I have seen him go down under “ challenges “ when defenders are not even in the same half of the ground. We could have had 10 pages on this site about his diving
Re the Sterling scenario of him leaving Liverpool. I just don’t get it. At the same time, more or less. Milner went to Liverpool on a free. It totally endorses the tribal aspect. Stirling shouldn’t of left but shove it up your jacksy we have got Milner. My thought is, if a player don’t want to wear your badge anymore, for whatever reason. And it’s usually money. Then go.
All that said. Messi, best player of the last year. Guffaw.


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## Piece (Nov 30, 2021)

Tomorrow, I'm going to be an armchair fan, rather that be the usual ST fan. It's because I can't be bothered to sit on the M25 for several hours in the dark to watch us get spanked by Tuchel's tasty team, when the game is on Amazon Prime


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2021)

Piece said:



			Tomorrow, I'm going to be an armchair fan, rather that be the usual ST fan. It's because I can't be bothered to sit on the M25 for several hours in the dark to watch us get spanked by Tuchel's tasty team, when the game is on Amazon Prime 

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You can’t be a proper fan then.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 30, 2021)

Sad to see the passing of Ray Kennedy. I remember I got an Arsenal kit as a four year old so started to follow them as a kid and so was made up when they won the double and Kennedy and Charlie George were my favourite players (until I wanted to be a goalie and then it was Bob Wilson). A career that should have been longer and definitely should have had more caps


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465674545180852230
Beats the Balon D’Or 😁


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 30, 2021)

Just looked at Premiership odds. Generally City 4/6, Chelsea 3/1 and Liverpool 4/1.

Think Chelsea and Liverpool are generous odds at present and whilst The Bookies are rarely wrong would not fancy City @ 4/6


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

Amazon Prime Video for the football once again is jumpy and keeps buffering


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Just looked at Premiership odds. Generally City 4/6, Chelsea 3/1 and Liverpool 4/1.

Think Chelsea and Liverpool are generous odds at present and whilst The Bookies are rarely wrong would not fancy City @ 4/6
		
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City got a very soft run of fixtures coming up after the Villa game (which will get them over their glut of injuries too), Liverpool get weakened in January too, back Liverpool at the start of feb if you fancy them


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## Stuart_C (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Amazon Prime Video for the football once again is jumpy and keeps buffering
		
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I'm 90 seconds behind and there's no commentary.

Pathetic.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm 90 seconds behind and there's no commentary.

Pathetic.
		
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It’s awful - mine is jumping every 2seconds , Amazon said must be my 100mb fibre 😂


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s awful - mine is jumping every 2seconds , Amazon said must be my 100mb fibre 😂
		
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You need to get proper broadband Phil, do you know anyone who works for a decent provider...


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## Stuart_C (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s awful - mine is jumping every 2seconds , Amazon said must be my 100mb fibre 😂
		
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Good job im not telly clapping tomorrow😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2021)

Ciaron Clark, what a plank. Get showered, get dressed,  drive home.


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s awful - mine is jumping every 2seconds , Amazon said must be my 100mb fibre 😂
		
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awful on the pc, seems a bit better on the tv thru the app, time delays as awful as ever

seriously time the prem league tell amazon to sort it out or allocate the games elsewhere!


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## srixon 1 (Nov 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm 90 seconds behind and there's no commentary.

Pathetic.
		
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You’re only missing Alan Shearer.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			City got a very soft run of fixtures coming up after the Villa game (which will get them over their glut of injuries too), Liverpool get weakened in January too, back Liverpool at the start of feb if you fancy them 

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What are the chances of the ACoN going ahead in January? With the way things are going I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it postponed.


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			What are the chances of the ACoN going ahead in January? With the way things are going I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it postponed.
		
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who knows in the current climate, has to be a chance it doesnt go ahead for sure


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Piece said:



			Tomorrow, I'm going to be an armchair fan, rather that be the usual ST fan. It's because I can't be bothered to sit on the M25 for several hours in the dark to watch us get spanked by Tuchel's tasty team, when the game is on Amazon Prime 

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Well, don't offer your opinion on the game afterwards, it won't be respected


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm 90 seconds behind and there's no commentary.

Pathetic.
		
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turns out that was the best of the first half lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			turns out that was the best of the first half lol
		
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The Leeds Palace match seems fine 👍


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Leeds Palace match seems fine 👍
		
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cant be any worse lol, i was trying to see if exeter bradford was on the telly haha


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Leeds Palace match seems fine 👍
		
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Norwich v Newcastle has been fine on my TV and we only have standard, non-fibre, broadband. Don't understand why some people would be getting issues and for others it's fine.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

England Women are 15-0 up with over 10 minutes to go, against Latvia.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm 90 seconds behind and there's no commentary.

Pathetic.
		
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Mines perfect but your missing nothing.
Eli Aloku or whatever her name is at half time was just waffling on


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## Slime (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Amazon Prime Video for the football once again is jumpy and keeps buffering
		
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Try ITV4.
England Women are currently 18-0 up with ten minutes remaining.
Oh, the Latvian goalkeeper.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Norwich v Newcastle has been fine on my TV and we only have standard, non-fibre, broadband. Don't understand why some people would be getting issues and for others it's fine.
		
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No idea

Very hit and miss - swapped to the Leeds game and it’s been fine

It was the same last time when they showed the games , lots of people complaining of buffering etc



Slime said:



			Try ITV4.
England Women are currently 18-0 up with ten minutes remaining.
Oh, the Latvian goalkeeper. 

Click to expand...

Even a poor stuttering coverage of a Newcastle game is better than watching that 😅


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			Try ITV4.
England Women are currently 18-0 up with ten minutes remaining.
Oh, the Latvian goalkeeper. 

Click to expand...

This is why international scoring records by woman cannot be compared to the mens game. I mean, I think even N Ireland women got more than 10 in their last game.


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## AliMc (Nov 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			Try ITV4.
England Women are currently 18-0 up with ten minutes remaining.
Oh, the Latvian goalkeeper. 

Click to expand...

Farcical match (not blaming England) but surely they could work out some sort of seeding to prevent this and similar results, I see there was a 20 nil the other day !


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## Slime (Nov 30, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Farcical match (not blaming England) but surely they could work out some sort of seeding to prevent this and similar results,* I see there was a 20 nil the other day !*

Click to expand...

There's another one tonight!


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## pokerjoke (Nov 30, 2021)

Ridiculous 
Just give it Var it’s clear as day


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			There's another one tonight!
		
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I think given how poor some of these ladies international teams are I think seedings would be the way to go. There is nothing for England or Lativa to take from a game like this. Too many one sided games and people will lose interest and that isn't good for the development of the female game


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## Slime (Nov 30, 2021)

All over, 20-0.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			All over, 20-0.
		
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Did Kane score


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## SteveJay (Nov 30, 2021)

20-0 what a joke.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

SteveJay said:



			20-0 what a joke.
		
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Ireland were tame in comparison, only won 11-0. And N Ireland was a drab 9-0 affair last night.


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2021)

hard to believe either of those sides will be in the premier league next August!


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## Jensen (Nov 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			hard to believe either of those sides will be in the premier league next August!
		
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There’s been a few great escapes over the years, hopefully Eddie Howe will do the same for The Toon Army.
Howay The Lads


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## Stuart_C (Nov 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			hard to believe either of those sides will be in the premier league next August!
		
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If theres a god😀😀


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2021)

Jensen said:



			There’s been a few great escapes over the years, hopefully Eddie Howe will do the same for The Toon Army.
Howay The Lads
		
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might be the most cheered relegation for a long time!!!


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## Stuart_C (Nov 30, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			If theres a god😀😀
		
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He'll take The Ev with them🤣🤣


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## BiMGuy (Nov 30, 2021)

Ally McCoist’s inane rambling. He’s spent 10 minutes blaming James for Rodrigo missing a sitter.

How people rate him as a commentator is beyond me.


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## Jensen (Nov 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			might be the most cheered relegation for a long time!!!
		
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☹️ Bitterness doesn’t become you 😉


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2021)

Jensen said:



			☹️ Bitterness doesn’t become you 😉
		
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wasnt meaning me as such, pretty clear on the general opinion across the country though since the takeover


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2021)

Palace time wasting at 0-0 at Leeds lol, should be embarrassed


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			What is wrong with leaving at 4am anyway. These "die hard" fans are prepared to travel many miles to see their team, so how come they have no issue with distance, but do with the time of day? Does it not mean they get home earlier at least? Also, the traffic may be a bit better at 4am in the morning.

At the end of the day, if you are the type of person who is willing to travel nearly 300 miles to a game of football, don't be moaning that you might have to get up a bit early.
		
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Shocking view, truly shocking and total disdain for match going fans.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Palace time wasting at 0-0 at Leeds lol, should be embarrassed
		
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Yep. Wasting time for most of the second half.


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2021)

Palace got all they deserved here


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Amazon Prime Video for the football once again is jumpy and keeps buffering
		
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Better than the snow, the rain and the wind at a match.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Shocking view, truly shocking and total disdain for match going fans.
		
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Fine, let's go back to 3pm kick offs for every single game, and scrap showing them on TV.

Of course, that would be a shocking view, total disdain to fans who want to watch their team but cannot go to the stadium. 

It is not like you are asking fans to leave their home at 4am week in week out. It may never happen in a season. But, if you live on one side of the country and you want to go to an away match at the other side of the country, you may well have an early start. Or you may well have a very late finish. 

Besides, I used 4am simply as that was stated in a previous post. Realistically, who has to leave their home that early for a lunch time kick off?

Still not heard any solutions, apart from ditch showing match on TV altogether


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## Dando (Nov 30, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Did Kane score 

Click to expand...

he’s trying to claim a few


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 30, 2021)

My take on match goers and telly (only) fans:-

Yes, when it comes to opinions going to a match regularly doesnt mean your Arrigo Sacchi, and there are some right divvies who go regularly, especially the divvy who sits two rows behind me. TV fans can be insightful and know there stuff.

However, I'll always give a bit more leeway to match goers as they put in the hard yards whether now or in the past. They have done the 5 hour journey after defeat in a midweek February night, taking 1-2 days off work, spending £100 plus in all weathers and often treated like crap by the police, opposition fans, Sky, BT, the FA and even their own clubs. Away matches arent for all, but SUPPORTING their team is a big thing in their life and make cost them thousands in a year, as well as the travel, time etc.

All of the above vs the twitter/footy forum/facebook internet "followers" who may as well be talking about gogglebox or GofT or any other "entertainment", of which footy just is for them. I also hate it when these gobshites are held up as our normal or true support.  I think there is a big difference between our match going support in the main compared to our online/on screen ones, possibly also the same for Man u - I dont know, but do suspect. Unfortunately, we sometimes have to apologise for these types of supoorter on occasion, with them calling for mangers heads or slagging off players way before or way more than anyone who does at the ground - Roy Hodgson, notwithstanding. Sadly, our main support can get tarred by the same brush as the talksport knobs, tweeters etc

When I was in my 20's I hated man u and their supporters with a passion, now I can separate the club from their support and the same with a few other clubs. I would now rather have a rattling good chat with a Man u/Chelsea/ Everton fan (if they are fair-minded and can give and take) than with a completely biased Liverpool fan. I've met many fans on this here forum, and the footy fans I get on best with are the Man U and Chelsea fans - cracking lads, can shoot the breeze all day with them on footy, and most are/were regular match goers. Swapping stories of places been, games watched, journeys made show a camraderie that only the match going fan can have, and that can be with supporters of any team who has done the travels. Swapping stories on favourite armchairs, remote control speed and favourite match watching biscuits doesnt have the same allure for me.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 30, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Fine, let's go back to 3pm kick offs for every single game, and scrap showing them on TV.

Of course, that would be a shocking view, total disdain to fans who want to watch their team but cannot go to the stadium.

It is not like you are asking fans to leave their home at 4am week in week out. It may never happen in a season. But, if you live on one side of the country and you want to go to an away match at the other side of the country, you may well have an early start. Or you may well have a very late finish.

Besides, I used 4am simply as that was stated in a previous post. Realistically, who has to leave their home that early for a lunch time kick off?

Still not heard any solutions, apart from ditch showing match on TV altogether
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant, where do I sign up? Telly has brought many improvements, but also many irreversible bad things.

If its a 3pm and you have to get up early, so be it, but its when they make say a Sunderland vs Plymouth game a 12.30 ko which is taking the piss.  Liverpool had a 7.30 Sunday FA cup game the other year in London, and there were no trains back afterwards, so why couldnt it have been a 2pm or even a 4pm - the fans are given NO consideration. its like over xmas, they should be able to make the fixtures so that no-one has more than a 150 mile journey.


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## DanFST (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Brilliant, where do I sign up? Telly has brought many improvements, but also many irreversible bad things.

If its a 3pm and you have to get up early, so be it, but its when they make say a Sunderland vs Plymouth game a 12.30 ko which is taking the piss.  Liverpool had a 7.30 Sunday FA cup game the other year in London, and there were no trains back afterwards, so why couldnt it have been a 2pm or even a 4pm - the fans are given NO consideration. its like over xmas, they should be able to make the fixtures so that no-one has more than a 150 mile journey.
		
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I remember they tried to move West Ham v Newcastle to Christmas Eve under lights a few years back. Both sets of fans were absolutely livid, there was absolutely no way the toon lot could be back for xmas, even if they drove. Thankfully it couldn't be moved as our club used the excuse of the Shopping centre next to the stadium being busy as an excuse (the one fans weren't even allowed in at the time) 

We've not had a home game around Xmas since because of that, but it's one of the only times our owners actually did the right thing.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Farcical match (not blaming England) but surely they could work out some sort of seeding to prevent this and similar results, I see there was a 20 nil the other day !
		
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Like a World Handicap System.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 30, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Brilliant, where do I sign up? Telly has brought many improvements, but also many irreversible bad things.

If its a 3pm and you have to get up early, so be it, but its when they make say a Sunderland vs Plymouth game a 12.30 ko which is taking the piss.  Liverpool had a 7.30 Sunday FA cup game the other year in London, and there were no trains back afterwards, so why couldnt it have been a 2pm or even a 4pm - the fans are given NO consideration. its like over xmas, they should be able to make the fixtures so that no-one has more than a 150 mile journey.
		
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You mention Christmas... Brighton are at home to Brentford on Boxing Day. 8pm kick off. The Amex was designed to be accessed by public transport and *not *by car. So you've got c. 30,000 people trying to leave a venue *on Boxing Day* when there are next to no buses or trains, and as it stands, the networks are holding firm on not putting the 'normal' amount of services. My wife and parents are STHs there and you can already tell it's going to be carnage. Sky couldn't give a flying one, it's on the tele - that's all they care about. Absolutely ridiculous.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Fine, let's go back to 3pm kick offs for every single game, and scrap showing them on TV.

Of course, that would be a shocking view, total disdain to fans who want to watch their team but cannot go to the stadium.

It is not like you are asking fans to leave their home at 4am week in week out. It may never happen in a season. But, if you live on one side of the country and you want to go to an away match at the other side of the country, you may well have an early start. Or you may well have a very late finish.

Besides, I used 4am simply as that was stated in a previous post. *Realistically, who has to leave their home that early for a lunch time kick off?*

Still not heard any solutions, apart from ditch showing match on TV altogether
		
Click to expand...

Southampton V Newcastle.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2021)

Sky/PL/FA dont give a damn about match going fans, they never have and never will because they know fans are emotionally involved with their teams.

Unfortunately PL football is for the Telly clappers and corporates. 

Last year proved, football was played behind closed doors for the telly clapper/armchair fan. I hated it.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Sky/PL/FA dont give a damn about match going fans, they never have and never will because they know fans are emotionally involved with their teams.

Unfortunately PL football is for the Telly clappers and corporates.

Last year proved, football was played behind closed doors for the telly clapper/armchair fan. I hated it.
		
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Agree with all of that. Would add that the clubs don’t care either, they all take the cash. And imo it won’t be long till all games are televised, which will bring in even more to the clubs, and more inconvenience to match goers.


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## Slime (Dec 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Sky/PL/FA dont give a damn about match going fans, they never have and never will because they know fans are emotionally involved with their teams.

Unfortunately PL football is for the Telly clappers and corporates.

Last year proved, football was played behind closed doors for the telly clapper/armchair fan. I hated it.
		
Click to expand...

Do you never watch footy on telly?


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			You mention Christmas... Brighton are at home to Brentford on Boxing Day. 8pm kick off. The Amex was designed to be accessed by public transport and *not *by car. So you've got c. 30,000 people trying to leave a venue *on Boxing Day* when there are next to no buses or trains, and as it stands, the networks are holding firm on not putting the 'normal' amount of services. My wife and parents are STHs there and you can already tell it's going to be carnage. Sky couldn't give a flying one, it's on the tele - that's all they care about. Absolutely ridiculous.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Southampton V Newcastle.
		
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So, once a season an away fan might have to get up mega early IF that game is an early kick off (possible, but unlikely as it is not exactly a big game).

To be honest, I've heard plenty in here tell us television fans have opinions that are less respected, because they don't invest in travelling to games, or invest the time it takes. Then match going fans moan about having to get up early some times.

Well, they cant have it both ways. Play the heroes for investing so much time, then moaning for having to do so. It is their choice to commit to going to games. That is fine, and I respect that. But, if it is such a hardship, thet have the choice to stay home sometimes and watch on TV.

Not sure it is controversial, but the world doesnt revolve around match going fans only. Sure, doesn't mean they should be continually messed about, but sometimes they may just need to set their alarm clock early


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## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Agree with all of that. Would add that the clubs don’t care either, they all take the cash. And imo it won’t be long till all games are televised, which will bring in even more to the clubs, and more inconvenience to match goers.
		
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Clubs aren't without  criticism neither.

I think clubs should be fighting the corner of the fans re KO times but they wont bite the hand that feeds them. 

If sky wrapped up today, most, if not all clubs would struggle.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			So, once a season an away fan might have to get up mega early IF that game is an early kick off (possible, but unlikely as it is not exactly a big game).

To be honest, I've heard plenty in here tell us television fans have opinions that are less respected, because they don't invest in travelling to games, or invest the time it takes. Then match going fans moan about having to get up early some times.

Well, they cant have it both ways. Play the heroes for investing so much time, then moaning for having to do so. It is their choice to commit to going to games. That is fine, and I respect that. But, if it is such a hardship, thet have the choice to stay home sometimes and watch on TV.

Not sure it is controversial, but the world doesnt revolve around match going fans only. Sure, doesn't mean they should be continually messed about, but sometimes they may just need to set their alarm clock early
		
Click to expand...

The reverse fixture they'd have to do the same. 

That's 1 example.

We done the same when we played Portsmouth 09 season iirc. We'd been away in europe wedmesday night, got back friday morming then had to get to Portsmouth for 12:45 KO

This is a common theme. Your attitude ti this sums up modern football fans


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Agree with all of that. Would add that the clubs don’t care either, they all take the cash. And imo it won’t be long till all games are televised, which will bring in even more to the clubs, and more inconvenience to match goers.
		
Click to expand...

Sky don’t consult Clubs when choosing what fixtures to show, some of that is the Clubs responsibility as they (as the PL) agreed the contract, the only ones that may get a say in when games take place is the local Police.

All is being asked is to take the time and the day into consideration when choosing the fixtures.

It’s not even all about the fans, look how they treat our Clubs playing in Europe.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The reverse fixture they'd have to do the same.

That's 1 example.

We done the same when we played Portsmouth 09 season iirc. We'd been away in europe wedmesday night, got back friday morming then had to get to Portsmouth for 12:45 KO

This is a common theme. Your attitude ti this sums up modern football fans
		
Click to expand...

You’re wasting your time mate, we’ve already had examples on here about fans who travel hundreds and in some cases thousands of miles to every home game, look at the Irish that travel to PL games in England every week, book ferries, planes and hotels weeks/months in advance and then Sky change the fixture and then some blame the fans for booking early when they have to cancel or lose money.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Clubs aren't without  criticism neither.

I think clubs should be fighting the corner of the fans re KO times but they wont bite the hand that feeds them.

If sky wrapped up today, most, if not all clubs would struggle.
		
Click to expand...

I think they all would if the tv model vanished. It’s all advertising. No club survives on match day and merchandise imo. 



pauldj42 said:



			Sky don’t consult Clubs when choosing what fixtures to show, some of that is the Clubs responsibility as they (as the PL) agreed the contract, the only ones that may get a say in when games take place is the local Police.

All is being asked is to take the time and the day into consideration when choosing the fixtures.

It’s not even all about the fans, look how they treat our Clubs playing in Europe.
		
Click to expand...

I know the clubs aren’t consulted. My point was simply that the clubs know their fans will be affected, but still take the money. Which of course they should as they’re businesses.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2021)

Slime said:



			Do you never watch footy on telly?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah i do but only the aways as we go to all the homes  and i don't enjoy as much as i do when i'm there. I certainly dont choose to watch on the box over going.

I don't go to many aways but thats only down to 2 things. My lad plays football saturday/sunday mornings and access to tickets.  Definitely not through CBA symdrome etc


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## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re wasting your time mate, we’ve already had examples on here about fans who travel hundreds and in some cases thousands of miles to every home game, look at the Irish that travel to PL games in England every week, book ferries, planes and hotels weeks/months in advance and then Sky change the fixture and then some blame the fans for booking early when they have to cancel or lose money.
		
Click to expand...

I admire those fans that travel from London to Liverpool every other week, i dont think i could do it. 

Those that choose not too but are experts in coaching, management, sports science, recovery and football finance via social media etc are the ones that get right up my nose.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The reverse fixture they'd have to do the same.

That's 1 example.

We done the same when we played Portsmouth 09 season iirc. We'd been away in europe wedmesday night, got back friday morming then had to get to Portsmouth for 12:45 KO

This is a common theme. *Your attitude ti this sums up modern football fans*

Click to expand...

Maybe your attitude sums up fans living in the past?

If Sunderland are going to play away at Southampton, there is going to be a long trip ahead. Now some travelling fans may despise an early start (if it was a 12:30 kick off). Others might prefer it, as they prefer to travel early and get home at a semi reasonable time. Every fan will be different. However, if you are a fan that is committed to going to those games, don't moan about the logistics in getting there. I'd be more sympathetic if all your arrangements had been made, and then the fixture kick off / date was changed at the last minute. I certainly would back up your frustrations on that particular point. 

I'm sure the calendar is not absolutely perfect in terms of every fixture being played at the ideal time, but it is not every week that a club is in Europe on a Wednesday and has a noon kick off on a Saturday. It happens, yes, especially to the big clubs, but it is not every week. And, if the fixture is moved because of TV, if it is such a hardship, watch it on TV that week. Nobody will think less of you.

Yes, Sky are selfish and are in it to make money. That is what businesses do. However, to do so they need to have a strong relationship with clubs and fans. They do so by giving clubs lots of money, and televising games for fans to watch (of which there will be many more than attend the game itself, again for the big clubs at least).

It is your attitude which scares me when people say it could be a good idea if fans were to take over clubs. What would season ticket holders at clubs like Liverpool, City, Chelsea, etc do? Veto 12pm kick offs, even if the games can no longer be televised? Would they accept a severe loss in revenue? Would they be happy to tell the millions of die hard fans of their clubs, those that invest in Sky or go to the pub, that "sorry, the game will not be on this week because travelling fans do not want to get up early to get to the game"? But, it is match going fans who know what is best, so certainly my opinion should be in no way respected. 

PS: As I said before, I have full respect for the commitment of match going fans. I'd like to think most just get on with it, and enjoy their hobby. Perhaps they'll have the odd grumble when they've a long trip, unsuitable kick off time or go to a ground that is more inaccessible than many others. But, that is just part and parcel of football these days. We are not going back to the dark ages where every match is at 3pm on a Saturday, and the only chance non match goers will ever get to see their team is for a few minutes on Match of the Day.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

WEDNESDAY NIGHT LIGHTS AT VILLA PARK 

The return of the greasey haired snake - albeit he is injured (shock) but he could make an appearance.

UP THE F-IN VILLA


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## fundy (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



 WEDNESDAY NIGHT LIGHTS AT VILLA PARK 

The return of the greasey haired snake - albeit he is injured (shock) but he could make an appearance.

UP THE F-IN VILLA
		
Click to expand...


theres no F in Villa


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe your attitude sums up fans living in the past?

If Sunderland are going to play away at Southampton, there is going to be a long trip ahead. Now some travelling fans may despise an early start (if it was a 12:30 kick off). Others might prefer it, as they prefer to travel early and get home at a semi reasonable time. Every fan will be different. However, if you are a fan that is committed to going to those games, don't moan about the logistics in getting there. I'd be more sympathetic if all your arrangements had been made, and then the fixture kick off / date was changed at the last minute. I certainly would back up your frustrations on that particular point.

I'm sure the calendar is not absolutely perfect in terms of every fixture being played at the ideal time, but it is not every week that a club is in Europe on a Wednesday and has a noon kick off on a Saturday. It happens, yes, especially to the big clubs, but it is not every week. And, if the fixture is moved because of TV, if it is such a hardship, watch it on TV that week. Nobody will think less of you.

Yes, Sky are selfish and are in it to make money. That is what businesses do. However, to do so they need to have a strong relationship with clubs and fans. They do so by giving clubs lots of money, and televising games for fans to watch (of which there will be many more than attend the game itself, again for the big clubs at least).

It is your attitude which scares me when people say it could be a good idea if fans were to take over clubs. What would season ticket holders at clubs like Liverpool, City, Chelsea, etc do? Veto 12pm kick offs, even if the games can no longer be televised? Would they accept a severe loss in revenue? Would they be happy to tell the millions of die hard fans of their clubs, those that invest in Sky or go to the pub, that "sorry, the game will not be on this week because travelling fans do not want to get up early to get to the game"? But, it is match going fans who know what is best, so certainly my opinion should be in no way respected.

PS: As I said before, I have full respect for the commitment of match going fans. *I'd like to think most just get on with it, and enjoy their hobby. Perhaps they'll have the odd grumble when they've a long trip, unsuitable kick off time or go to a ground that is more inaccessible than many others. *But, that is just part and parcel of football these days. We are not going back to the dark ages where every match is at 3pm on a Saturday, and the only chance non match goers will ever get to see their team is for a few minutes on Match of the Day.
		
Click to expand...

This is pretty much me and the boys I go with.

Im also not one to spout off about good fans or bad fans - I think you're either a fan, a ST holder or the home and away idiot. I fall into cat 3, I live and breathe AVFC, it is part of my life and always will be. The wife knows it, the parents know it, my in laws know it. I choose Villa over everything else. Boxing day with the fam? Nah.. AVFC are playing in Burnley..... 

There are only around 2500 fans per team like it*, thats it. To be one of the few, to me, is everything. It simply cannot be done by all.

I respect all the opinions on this forum, Phil knows far more about liverpool than I would - so why not? 

Only thing I dont like is "its too hard to make a game" mentality. No it isnt, not if you really want to go.

*Often away criteria allows 2000-3500 in prem.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			theres no F in Villa 

Click to expand...

Oh I believe there is  it comes just after "the" and just before "villa"


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe your attitude sums up fans living in the past?

If Sunderland are going to play away at Southampton, there is going to be a long trip ahead. Now some travelling fans may despise an early start (if it was a 12:30 kick off). Others might prefer it, as they prefer to travel early and get home at a semi reasonable time. Every fan will be different. However, if you are a fan that is committed to going to those games, don't moan about the logistics in getting there. I'd be more sympathetic if all your arrangements had been made, and then the fixture kick off / date was changed at the last minute. I certainly would back up your frustrations on that particular point.

I'm sure the calendar is not absolutely perfect in terms of every fixture being played at the ideal time, but it is not every week that a club is in Europe on a Wednesday and has a noon kick off on a Saturday. It happens, yes, especially to the big clubs, but it is not every week. And, if the fixture is moved because of TV, if it is such a hardship, watch it on TV that week. Nobody will think less of you.

Yes, Sky are selfish and are in it to make money. That is what businesses do. However, to do so they need to have a strong relationship with clubs and fans. They do so by giving clubs lots of money, and televising games for fans to watch (of which there will be many more than attend the game itself, again for the big clubs at least).

It is your attitude which scares me when people say it could be a good idea if fans were to take over clubs. What would season ticket holders at clubs like Liverpool, City, Chelsea, etc do? Veto 12pm kick offs, even if the games can no longer be televised? Would they accept a severe loss in revenue? Would they be happy to tell the millions of die hard fans of their clubs, those that invest in Sky or go to the pub, that "sorry, the game will not be on this week because travelling fans do not want to get up early to get to the game"? But, it is match going fans who know what is best, so certainly my opinion should be in no way respected.

PS: As I said before, I have full respect for the commitment of match going fans. I'd like to think most just get on with it, and enjoy their hobby. Perhaps they'll have the odd grumble when they've a long trip, unsuitable kick off time or go to a ground that is more inaccessible than many others. But, that is just part and parcel of football these days. We are not going back to the dark ages where every match is at 3pm on a Saturday, and the only chance non match goers will ever get to see their team is for a few minutes on Match of the Day.
		
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A club plays 38 games a season, its easy to put into a computer certain variables like no 150 mile+ journeys for boxing day and new year, and other things. If Newcastle played Soton its going to be a long day no matter what, but put it at 3pm Saturday or 2pm Sunday, as there are 9 other matches that can be televised that weekend.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			This is pretty much me and the boys I go with.

Im also not one to spout off about good fans or bad fans - I think you're either a fan, a ST holder or the home and away idiot. I fall into cat 3, I live and breathe AVFC, it is part of my life and always will be. The wife knows it, the parents know it, my in laws know it. I choose Villa over everything else. Boxing day with the fam? Nah.. AVFC are playing in Burnley.....

There are only around 2500 fans per team like it*, thats it. To be one of the few, to me, is everything. It simply cannot be done by all.

I respect all the opinions on this forum, Phil knows far more about liverpool than I would - so why not?

*Only thing I dont like is "its too hard to make a game" mentality. No it isnt, not if you really want to go.*

*Often away criteria allows 2000-3500 in prem.
		
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The best thing in your life is about to happen to you, good luck with this attitude once the baby’s here.😬


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The best thing in your life is about to happen to you
		
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Villa are going to win the league? 😃


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			This is pretty much me and the boys I go with.

Im also not one to spout off about good fans or bad fans - I think you're either a fan, a ST holder or the home and away idiot. I fall into cat 3, I live and breathe AVFC, it is part of my life and always will be. The wife knows it, the parents know it, my in laws know it. I choose Villa over everything else. Boxing day with the fam? Nah.. AVFC are playing in Burnley.....

There are only around 2500 fans per team like it*, thats it. To be one of the few, to me, is everything. It simply cannot be done by all.

I respect all the opinions on this forum, Phil knows far more about liverpool than I would - so why not?

*Only thing I dont like is "its too hard to make a game" mentality. No it isnt, not if you really want to go.*

*Often away criteria allows 2000-3500 in prem.
		
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I guess so. Unless you need to book flights (say, you live in N Ireland, China, etc). Or, you have kids that have commitments you need to take them to on game days. I live in Lincolnshire, so it is not impossible for me to get to Manchester United games, but it would be 3 hour trip to home games, and probably just as much, if not longer, to away games (not many / any Premier League clubs locally). It can still be done, if tickets are available, but it is a much bigger commitment for me than it is to someone who lives in, or near Manchester. Also a bigger drain on my finances. I could probably stand it, but many struggle enough financially that going to games may be a stretch too far for them?

For me, as I said before, I am lucky. I support one of the biggest clubs in the world, thus I get to see virtually every game live on TV. I get to see how bad the players are week in, week out. I get to see how Ole looked completely out of ideas and was a mute during the game. I get to see how Ronaldo has almost single handed brought joy to fans in an otherwise abysmal season. How the likes of Greenwood and Rashford have stalled in the last season or two, etc. I don't need to be sitting in the stadium to see how bad Utd have been. I also don't need to have sat in the stadium to see how good City and Liverpool have been. However, I know my heart goes into analysing everything Utd, so I'd respect a Liverpool fan who watches their own team on TV will have more in depth knowledge of Liverpool, as they will naturally analyse their own team much more than I would.

I appreciate, for a Villa fan, it may be different. I don't know how often they play on TV, and how often they are 3pm on a Saturday. So, unless you go to the games, you may get much less exposure to watching your side from home than I get watching my team. And, if you were a Lincoln, Fleetwood or Forest Green fan, you essentially have to go to games to have any idea about how your team play.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



 WEDNESDAY NIGHT LIGHTS AT VILLA PARK 

*The return of the greasey haired snake* - albeit he is injured (shock) but he could make an appearance.

UP THE F-IN VILLA
		
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Are you talking about Grealish?? What do you have against him?


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			A club plays 38 games a season, its easy to put into a computer certain variables like no 150 mile+ journeys for boxing day and new year, and other things. If Newcastle played Soton its going to be a long day no matter what, but put it at 3pm Saturday or 2pm Sunday, as there are 9 other matches that can be televised that weekend.
		
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OK, but if it was that simple, why is it not done?

That is a genuine question, I do not know the answer. I am pretty sure Sky do not dictate fixtures simply to annoy fans. So, if it was that easy, surely they would just do that. I assume they have specific criteria they must meet, such as the minimum amount of games each club has to be shown on TV. Perhaps the Premier League themselves have a responsibility? For example, do they draw the original fixture list and then Sky need to work around that?


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The best thing in your life is about to happen to you, good luck with this attitude once the baby’s here.😬
		
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ColchesterFC said:



			Villa are going to win the league? 😃
		
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You think that'll stop me? Kids got 2 kits already...

I dont think youre quite grasping the commitment levels here


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You think that'll stop me? Kids got 2 kits already...

I dont think youre quite grasping the commitment levels here 

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Is this like in the summer when you said “Jack’s going nowhere”? 😂😂
Or last week when you said Palace was your last away game for a while?😂😂


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## GB72 (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			OK, but if it was that simple, why is it not done?

That is a genuine question, I do not know the answer. I am pretty sure Sky do not dictate fixtures simply to annoy fans. So, if it was that easy, surely they would just do that. I assume they have specific criteria they must meet, such as the minimum amount of games each club has to be shown on TV. Perhaps the Premier League themselves have a responsibility? For example, do they draw the original fixture list and then Sky need to work around that?
		
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From what I understand, the bigger the club, the more likely to you are to get messed around with kick off times for TV. it is all down to advertising. Globally more people will watch a Manchester United game than a Burnley game as so advertising during the breaks is more attractivce and is sold at a premium price. On that basis, Sky would ideally show more Manchester United matches than other teams. I am sure that there is an obligation to show a minimum number of games for each team but your Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City and Man United games are going to be on more because they create more advertising revenue. As such, Sky will shoehorn those matches into whatever timeslot they can get and why they get the awkward kick off times. 

What I have never understood is why Boxing day and New Year fixtures are not dedicated to being local derbys. Promote and market it as this and I am sure it will be popular. Each club plays the nearest 2 clubs ot them over those 2 matches or even do the home and away fixtures back to back.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess so. Unless you need to book flights (say, you live in N Ireland, China, etc). Or, you have kids that have commitments you need to take them to on game days. I live in Lincolnshire, so it is not impossible for me to get to Manchester United games, but it would be 3 hour trip to home games, and probably just as much, if not longer, to away games (not many / any Premier League clubs locally). It can still be done, if tickets are available, but it is a much bigger commitment for me than it is to someone who lives in, or near Manchester. Also a bigger drain on my finances. I could probably stand it, but many struggle enough financially that going to games may be a stretch too far for them?

For me, as I said before, I am lucky. I support one of the biggest clubs in the world, thus I get to see virtually every game live on TV. I get to see how bad the players are week in, week out. I get to see how Ole looked completely out of ideas and was a mute during the game. I get to see how Ronaldo has almost single handed brought joy to fans in an otherwise abysmal season. How the likes of Greenwood and Rashford have stalled in the last season or two, etc. I don't need to be sitting in the stadium to see how bad Utd have been. I also don't need to have sat in the stadium to see how good City and Liverpool have been. However, I know my heart goes into analysing everything Utd, so I'd respect a Liverpool fan who watches their own team on TV will have more in depth knowledge of Liverpool, as they will naturally analyse their own team much more than I would.

I appreciate, for a Villa fan, it may be different. I don't know how often they play on TV, and how often they are 3pm on a Saturday. So, unless you go to the games, you may get much less exposure to watching your side from home than I get watching my team. And, if you were a Lincoln, Fleetwood or Forest Green fan, you essentially have to go to games to have any idea about how your team play.
		
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Yeah if you're abroad it may be harder to follow your team 

Its not like it doesnt drain my finances every month - the average away day with ticket, transport and everything thrown in is an easy £70. Ive had months so far this season where ive had to buy 4 away tickets... £120. It really isnt easy. As I said yesterday, guy next to me at Villa Park drives from Carlisle to every home game. So people do it over longer distances than I do too. Its a personal thing - I just cant not be there for my club. To me the match day is about singing loud and proud, the limbs, visiting new grounds. I love every second of it.

Im really not trying to continue this debate either - just thought id share my view on it all. I appreciate all fans are different and as said before, respect everyones opinions on their own team.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Is this like in the summer when you said “Jack’s going nowhere”? 😂😂
*Or last week when you said Palace was your last away game for a while*?😂😂
		
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Until he pops out - so I dont miss his birth... Like a good dad would. 


What are you trying to achieve with this post though? Just an argument.....


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Are you talking about Grealish?? What do you have against him?
		
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"My City, My Club, My Home"

My release clause!


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			"My City, My Club, My Home"

My release clause!
		
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I just don't understand when fans are bitter about their top players moving onto bigger and better things, especially when they fetch a huge free in the process. Did you actually think he would potter around playing for Villa forever?   When Kane leaves us for City or whoever I won't begrudge him it, he's given us plenty of good years and deserves to go and win something. Not going to moan about how he said he was Spurs through and through or whatever. How silly. (Not just having a go at you, in fact I think the majority of fans think the same as you I just think it's illogical.)


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			From what I understand, the bigger the club, the more likely to you are to get messed around with kick off times for TV. it is all down to advertising. Globally more people will watch a Manchester United game than a Burnley game as so advertising during the breaks is more attractivce and is sold at a premium price. On that basis, Sky would ideally show more Manchester United matches than other teams. I am sure that there is an obligation to show a minimum number of games for each team but your Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City and Man United games are going to be on more because they create more advertising revenue. As such, Sky will shoehorn those matches into whatever timeslot they can get and why they get the awkward kick off times.

What I have never understood is why Boxing day and New Year fixtures are not dedicated to being local derbys. Promote and market it as this and I am sure it will be popular. Each club plays the nearest 2 clubs ot them over those 2 matches or even do the home and away fixtures back to back.
		
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Yeah, I understand the big clubs will be moved around the most to fit a TV schedule. However, if it is Newcastle versus Southampton, why is that automatically not just a 3pm kick off on Saturday? I guess the answer is that, if that was always the case, Newcastle fans would never see their team play against Southampton, and vice versa. Even if you moved it to 2pm on a Sunday, there may well be much bigger teams that Sky want to show that weekend in that slot in that particular year?

Also, I guess it depends on the point in the season. If it was approaching the business end of the season, then perhaps there would be a bigger reason to show either or both teams on Sky, if there is more riding on that fixture.

Just doing a quick read, I understand the PL do the original draw, and have various conditions that need to be met. Apparently they also ask every club if there a team they do not want to play on Boxing Day, so I guess at least clubs can try and avoid the longest journeys on those dates. I'm not sure simply having the nearest clubs play each other on Boxing day would be a good idea for broadcasting. You'd have around 50% of the local derbys in a season taking place on one day. It is much better for TV if they are spread out throughout the season, so that each weekend you will often have at least one derby to enjoy on TV.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I just don't understand when fans are bitter about their top players moving onto bigger and better things, especially when they fetch a huge free in the process. *Did you actually think he would potter around playing for Villa forever?*  When Kane leaves us for City or whoever I won't begrudge him it, he's given us plenty of good years and deserves to go and win something. Not going to moan about how he said he was Spurs through and through or whatever. How silly. (Not just having a go at you, in fact I think the majority of fans think the same as you I just think it's illogical.)
		
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Not until he penned a new deal stating that he was happy, brought into the project and wanted to bring villa back into europe.

I begrudge someone for lying to a fan base. That is all.

Come out and tell the fans you want to leave - like Kane did. Dont sit in the shadows afraid of the backlash from fans. Own your decision.

Classless from the captain of our club at the time.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I just don't understand when fans are bitter about their top players moving onto bigger and better things, especially when they fetch a huge free in the process. Did you actually think he would potter around playing for Villa forever?   When Kane leaves us for City or whoever I won't begrudge him it, he's given us plenty of good years and deserves to go and win something. Not going to moan about how he said he was Spurs through and through or whatever. How silly. (Not just having a go at you, in fact I think the majority of fans think the same as you I just think it's illogical.)
		
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I'm with @Bdill93 on this. It isn't the going that is the problem, it is the guff they pedal beforehand that riles. Be honest, be upfront and fans will respect you, unless you move to Utd (Arsenal for you I guess) at which point you will get abuse every time you visit . Kiss the badge, tell everyone you are there for life and then jump ship the next week, that annoys fans.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2021)

The vicious circle of the Telly money that was created when the clubs left the Football League to create the Prem 

The income is around £70-100mil from the Prem and all clubs need that money to pay the wages of the players that know the money is there 

take away rhw sky money and the clubs will need to find other ways to bring in money - ticket prices ? Merchandise etc - it would be a big financial hole to fill 
The fans at the stadium and on the sofa want to see their club play the best football and have the best players - the Prem has many of them because of the Sky money. 

And I don’t think it’s going to change - Sky when they change dates etc they look at the worldwide Telly viewer - early kick offs for the Far and Middle East and late kick offs for the USA etc - those areas have paid billions to broadcast the games. The fan walking into the stadium doesn’t get a thought and the clubs don’t have the power to push it back because they know they need the Sky money 

All this started with the Prem and Telly deals and then the CL changes and their Telly deals etc 

Fans want the best players - but that requires money to pay for those players. Never ending vicious circle and how the Premier League is a worldwide league now


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Not until he penned a new deal stating that he was happy, brought into the project and wanted to bring villa back into europe.

I begrudge someone for lying to a fan base. That is all.

Come out and tell the fans you want to leave - like Kane did. Dont sit in the shadows afraid of the backlash from fans. Own your decision.

Classless from the captain of our club at the time.
		
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So he should have said "I'm signing a new contract just so that there's a decent release clause in there and Villa get a hefty fee when I leave." How would that have gone down? I think it's a no-win situation sometimes. Like booking an afternoon off to go to a job interview and your boss asks you what you're getting up to - you're not going to tell the truth are you?? 

I suppose it's understandable to feel a little hurt though. I personally choose to remember that there's no loyalty in football though, players are just individuals looking to make their money and do the best they can before retiring and that's it.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm with @Bdill93 on this. It isn't the going that is the problem, it is the guff they pedal beforehand that riles. Be honest, be upfront and fans will respect you, unless you move to Utd (Arsenal for you I guess) at which point you will get abuse every time you visit . Kiss the badge, tell everyone you are there for life and then jump ship the next week, that annoys fans.
		
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You say that but if a player openly says they don't want to be there anymore that annoys the fans as well. Can't win really.


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## DanFST (Dec 1, 2021)

Arnautovic for us is a good example of that. He wanted to come back after a money grab in China, fans were having none of it. 


Orikoru said:



			You say that but if a player openly says they don't want to be there anymore that annoys the fans as well. Can't win really.
		
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## Fade and Die (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You think that'll stop me? Kids got 2 kits already...

I dont think youre quite grasping the commitment levels here 

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Fair play to you, I used to be home and (most) away for about 20 years mainly in the 2nd div and it was great but when marriage and the kids came along it got cut back to just home. West ham used to be the *most* important thing in my life. Now its just the most important out of the *not* important things in my life.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			You say that but if a player openly says they don't want to be there anymore that annoys the fans as well. Can't win really.
		
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I think there are ways of doing it, most of which involve saying nothing. Come out openly and say you want to go mid season and then clearly that doesn't go down well. You keep quiet, let your agent deal with the club, work hard, you get your move. No one minds. Dodge the questions about long term commitment etc, talk about ambition, winning trophies etc. People can read into that, they accept it. 

Declare undying love for the club, fans, area, declare you want to finish your career at the club and then move next week? People see the previous statements for what they were, hollow pr. 

I don't blame any player moving for more money, to win trophies, to play in a better team. Just don't try to blatantly con your fans. For them it is personal.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think there are ways of doing it, most of which involve saying nothing. Come out openly and say you want to go mid season and then clearly that doesn't go down well. You keep quiet, let your agent deal with the club, work hard, you get your move. No one minds. Dodge the questions about long term commitment etc, talk about ambition, winning trophies etc. People can read into that, they accept it.

Declare undying love for the club, fans, area, declare you want to finish your career at the club and then move next week? People see the previous statements for what they were, hollow pr.

I don't blame any player moving for more money, to win trophies, to play in a better team. Just don't try to blatantly con your fans. For them it is personal.
		
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This is the thing though, with the media traps they always get forced into saying something. I'd rather take any statement with a pinch of salt than be all "OMG YOU SAID YOU WOULD LOVE US FOREVA"


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## GB72 (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The vicious circle of the Telly money that was created when the clubs left the Football League to create the Prem

The income is around £70-100mil from the Prem and all clubs need that money to pay the wages of the players that know the money is there

take away rhw sky money and the clubs will need to find other ways to bring in money - ticket prices ? Merchandise etc - it would be a big financial hole to fill
The fans at the stadium and on the sofa want to see their club play the best football and have the best players - the Prem has many of them because of the Sky money.

And I don’t think it’s going to change - Sky when they change dates etc they look at the worldwide Telly viewer - early kick offs for the Far and Middle East and late kick offs for the USA etc - those areas have paid billions to broadcast the games. The fan walking into the stadium doesn’t get a thought and the clubs don’t have the power to push it back because they know they need the Sky money

All this started with the Prem and Telly deals and then the CL changes and their Telly deals etc

Fans want the best players - but that requires money to pay for those players. Never ending vicious circle and how the Premier League is a worldwide league now
		
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I would be interested to see the results of a fan survey on this. Would you give up the Sky money and the star players that you have now in exchange for having a competitive domestic league and cups but little chance of getting into the group stages in Europe, lower grade facilities, no live TV matches but all matches kicked off at 3.00 Saturday etc. Would you effectively swap a lower quality product with less access to viewing matches for what would effectively be a return to what it was like 30 years ago and get rid of much of the commerciality that has taken over sport.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			So he should have said "I'm signing a new contract just so that there's a decent release clause in there and Villa get a hefty fee when I leave." How would that have gone down? I think it's a no-win situation sometimes. Like booking an afternoon off to go to a job interview and your boss asks you what you're getting up to - you're not going to tell the truth are you?? 

I suppose it's understandable to feel a little hurt though. I personally choose to remember that there's no loyalty in football though, players are just individuals looking to make their money and do the best they can before retiring and that's it.
		
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It would have been a hammer blow. But not as harsh a blow as staying silent about the RC and telling everyone all the lies that its "My city, My club, My home".

As I said, at least Kane had the balls to tell fans how he actually felt.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Until he pops out - so I dont miss his birth... Like a good dad would. 


What are you trying to achieve with this post though? Just an argument.....
		
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Going on the emoji’s I thought we were having a bit of banter. Obviously misread it so I’ll refrain.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Going on the emoji’s I thought we were having a bit of banter. Obviously misread it so I’ll refrain.
		
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Context gets lost online my friend. 

No hard feelings.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Fair play to you, I used to be home and (most) away for about 20 years mainly in the 2nd div and it was great but when marriage and the kids came along it got cut back to just home. West ham used to be the *most* important thing in my life. Now its just the most important out of the *not* important things in my life.
		
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This is probably the way it is for a lot blokes when they were young until marriage and kids came along, like Bdill93 my lad had kits before he was born and I dreamt of the father/son going the match as I had with my Dad.

Unfortunately the school he went to down south, were I was based, was a Rugby school and when moving up here we ended up as ST holders at Newcastle Falcons for 5 years as that was the sport he loved.


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			This is probably the way it is for a lot blokes when they were young until marriage and kids came along, like Bdill93 my lad had kits before he was born and I dreamt of the father/son going the match as I had with my Dad.

Unfortunately the school he went to down south, were I was based, was a Rugby school and when moving up here we ended up as ST holders at Newcastle Falcons for 5 years as that was the sport he loved.

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I don't have kids yet, but I often think about this. I've already stopped going to Spurs games myself as it's too expensive and takes up a whole Saturday with getting the tube across London etc. When I have a child I will want to take him/her to a football game at some point, but I have to admit it would be a lot easier to do this at Watford since it would be cheaper and the ground is only two stations away on the Overground. But I'm a Spurs fan because my dad is a Spurs fan, so it would be nice to carry that on. It's a conundrum really. Probably stick with Spurs and just go to one game a season.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't have kids yet, but I often think about this. I've already stopped going to Spurs games myself as it's too expensive and takes up a whole Saturday with getting the tube across London etc. When I have a child I will want to take him/her to a football game at some point, but I have to admit it would be a lot easier to do this at Watford since it would be cheaper and the ground is only two stations away on the Overground. But I'm a Spurs fan because my dad is a Spurs fan, so it would be nice to carry that on. It's a conundrum really. Probably stick with Spurs and just go to one game a season. 

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Then Uni came along and all sport interest was lost to females and computers.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			This is probably the way it is for a lot blokes when they were young until marriage and kids came along, like Bdill93 my lad had kits before he was born and I dreamt of the father/son going the match as I had with my Dad.

Unfortunately the school he went to down south, were I was based, was a Rugby school and when moving up here we ended up as ST holders at Newcastle Falcons for 5 years as that was the sport he loved.

Click to expand...

RUGBY


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			RUGBY 

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If I had a son who said he followed rugby rather than football I'd just have to hold my hands up and say you're on your own. Don't know the first thing about it, nor do I have any interest.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If I had a son who said he followed rugby rather than football I'd just have to hold my hands up and say you're on your own. Don't know the first thing about it, nor do I have any interest.
		
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Nah, when it’s your kid you go where ever they need you to!


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## GB72 (Dec 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If I had a son who said he followed rugby rather than football I'd just have to hold my hands up and say you're on your own. Don't know the first thing about it, nor do I have any interest.
		
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Took my nephew to many Tigers matches when he was growing up in the same way that my dad took me to Tigers games when my brother and I were kids. Used to be a great family day on boxing day when the Tigers played the Barbarians each year. Kids everywhere, families sharing packed lunches, soup and plenty of hip flasks going around. Loved it. What was great wat that when my brother bought his season ticket, his son got a free one up to the age of 9. That helped produce the next generation of season ticket holders.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I would be interested to see the results of a fan survey on this. Would you give up the Sky money and the star players that you have now in exchange for having a competitive domestic league and cups but little chance of getting into the group stages in Europe, lower grade facilities, no live TV matches but all matches kicked off at 3.00 Saturday etc. Would you effectively swap a lower quality product with less access to viewing matches for what would effectively be a return to what it was like 30 years ago and get rid of much of the commerciality that has taken over sport.
		
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Not a chance, football is much better now than it was years ago for me. As I grew up as a kid in the 90's, my only chance to watch the football was Match of the Day (in which my club was involved), although I loved Football Italia or the odd international game, or the FA Cup as I got to see live football.

OK, the expansion of broadcasting has had some negative side effects, such as diluting the impact of the FA Cup. However, I would not swap it for going back in time. Personally, I look forward to the weekends, where I get to play golf on a Saturday morning, then get back home to watch lunch time kick off, Soccer Saturday and then the evening kick off. Sundays pretty much the same. Football has become a bigger part of my life, whereas had it stayed the same as it was in the 90's, I'd generally only have Match of the Day (and it would be true to say I would have much less exposure to my club compared to a match going fan). I'm sure it was even worse going back before the 90's.

It is probably only some match going fans that broadcasting negatively effects, because they do not consistently get 3pm kick offs on a Saturday. However, they are probably a very very small percentage of a fan base, especially at clubs in which get a lot of TV coverage. However, TV will also have its benefits even for them, as they get to watch their team if they cannot make a game. And, not to mention the money it helps generate.

Mind you, I would still like to see the odd game on an atrocious pitch where the ball can bounce over Tim Flowers head. Yes, I know it is actually better we do not have those days, but it was funny to watch players sliding all over the place, and the odd cheeky headbutt or slap from Vinnie Jones


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Nah, when it’s your kid you go where ever they need you to!

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I aint having him chasing eggs around! 

Fortunately his grandad is a Worcester Warriors fan and STH - ill leave the rugby to him! 

(Actually, it might not be that fortunate - it appears Worcester are pretty )


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## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Took my nephew to many Tigers matches when he was growing up in the same way that my dad took me to Tigers games when my brother and I were kids. Used to be a great family day on boxing day when the Tigers played the Barbarians each year. Kids everywhere, families sharing packed lunches, soup and plenty of hip flasks going around. Loved it. What was great wat that when my brother bought his season ticket, his son got a free one up to the age of 9. That helped produce the next generation of season ticket holders.
		
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That all sounds nice but the fact is I might as well be watching kabaddi or quidditch for all I know of what's going on on the pitch.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			This is probably the way it is for a lot blokes when they were young until marriage and kids came along, like Bdill93 my lad had kits before he was born and I dreamt of the father/son going the match as I had with my Dad.

Unfortunately the school he went to down south, were I was based, was a Rugby school and when moving up here we ended up as ST holders at Newcastle Falcons for 5 years as that was the sport he loved.

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Exactly, I went (and still go) with my dad, now I also take my eldest son, he has asbergers/autism and normally shuns noise but at football he gets caught up in it and loves a good swear at the ref/opposition/noble  I could now start going to away games but tbh I can't be arsed. 

My younger lad used to come as well but he sadly drifted away from it, preferring a more digital life!


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## BiMGuy (Dec 1, 2021)

My lad has zero interest in watching live football. And to be fair to him, a lot of professional football is boring compared to his games, or watching the village Sunday team. 

I’ve taken him to a few games, it’s an expensive day out just to listen to angry men shouting nonsense.


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## GB72 (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Not a chance, football is much better now than it was years ago for me. As I grew up as a kid in the 90's, my only chance to watch the football was Match of the Day (in which my club was involved), although I loved Football Italia or the odd international game, or the FA Cup as I got to see live football.

OK, the expansion of broadcasting has had some negative side effects, such as diluting the impact of the FA Cup. However, I would not swap it for going back in time. Personally, I look forward to the weekends, where I get to play golf on a Saturday morning, then get back home to watch lunch time kick off, Soccer Saturday and then the evening kick off. Sundays pretty much the same. Football has become a bigger part of my life, whereas had it stayed the same as it was in the 90's, I'd generally only have Match of the Day (and it would be true to say I would have much less exposure to my club compared to a match going fan). I'm sure it was even worse going back before the 90's.

It is probably only some match going fans that broadcasting negatively effects, because they do not consistently get 3pm kick offs on a Saturday. However, they are probably a very very small percentage of a fan base, especially at clubs in which get a lot of TV coverage. However, TV will also have its benefits even for them, as they get to watch their team if they cannot make a game. And, not to mention the money it helps generate.

Mind you, I would still like to see the odd game on an atrocious pitch where the ball can bounce over Tim Flowers head. Yes, I know it is actually better we do not have those days, but it was funny to watch players sliding all over the place, and the odd cheeky headbutt or slap from Vinnie Jones 

Click to expand...

This is what I find interesting (again admitting only occasional football follower, rugby is my sport). For all the complaints about owners, TV money, kick off times, player wages etc, few would want to go back to the days of only 3.00 kick offs, limited football on TV, home grown players over global superstars and clubs owned and run by a local businessman who has done well for himself and needs the club to be relatively self supporting rather than a global billionaire or company pumping cash or debt into the club.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The vicious circle of the Telly money that was created when the clubs left the Football League to create the Prem

The income is around £70-100mil from the Prem and all clubs need that money to pay the wages of the players that know the money is there

take away rhw sky money and the clubs will need to find other ways to bring in money - ticket prices ? Merchandise etc - it would be a big financial hole to fill
The fans at the stadium and on the sofa want to see their club play the best football and have the best players - the Prem has many of them because of the Sky money.

And I don’t think it’s going to change - Sky when they change dates etc they look at the worldwide Telly viewer - early kick offs for the Far and Middle East and late kick offs for the USA etc - those areas have paid billions to broadcast the games. The fan walking into the stadium doesn’t get a thought and the clubs don’t have the power to push it back because they know they need the Sky money

All this started with the Prem and Telly deals and then the CL changes and their Telly deals etc

Fans want the best players - but that requires money to pay for those players. Never ending vicious circle and how the Premier League is a worldwide league now
		
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It probably wont change, because its gone too far down the line, but you can reel it back in a lot.

I would estimate that 80% of the extra money has gone in the players pockets, with 10% going on facilities (which did need upgrading) and 10% on superfluous stuff like directors of football, extra physios, statisticians and all manner of extra staff, like throw in coaches.

Now that most facilities are very good, put the players back on 10k a week, 7-8 games at 3pm with a 5.30 saturday, 2pm and 4pm Sunday games.

Sorry, but players like Maddison buying a 6k backpack do my head in.


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## fundy (Dec 1, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I aint having him chasing eggs around! 

Fortunately his grandad is a Worcester Warriors fan and STH - ill leave the rugby to him! 

(Actually, it might not be that fortunate - it appears Worcester are pretty )
		
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Rugbys equivalent of Villa


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			OK, but if it was that simple, why is it not done?

That is a genuine question, I do not know the answer. I am pretty sure Sky do not dictate fixtures simply to annoy fans. So, if it was that easy, surely they would just do that. I assume they have specific criteria they must meet, such as the minimum amount of games each club has to be shown on TV. Perhaps the Premier League themselves have a responsibility? For example, do they draw the original fixture list and then Sky need to work around that?
		
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It is done to an extent, but not enough.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Rugbys equivalent of Villa 

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They get relegated far more than Villa have.... I know that for a fact!

Not sure they've ever won Europe either?

You can do better than that!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			It probably wont change, because its gone too far down the line, but you can reel it back in a lot.

I would estimate that 80% of the extra money has gone in the players pockets, with 10% going on facilities (which did need upgrading) and 10% on superfluous stuff like directors of football, extra physios, statisticians and all manner of extra staff, like throw in coaches.

Now that most facilities are very good, put the players back on 10k a week, 7-8 games at 3pm with a 5.30 saturday, 2pm and 4pm Sunday games.

Sorry, but players like Maddison buying a 6k backpack do my head in.
		
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You are right about the players - but there is no way they would go back to £10k a week unless there was a world wide cap. Players would just walk away to teams in Italy , France etc


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			This is what I find interesting (again admitting only occasional football follower, rugby is my sport). For all the complaints about owners, TV money, kick off times, player wages etc, few would want to go back to the days of only 3.00 kick offs, limited football on TV, home grown players over global superstars and clubs owned and run by a local businessman who has done well for himself and needs the club to be relatively self supporting rather than a global billionaire or company pumping cash or debt into the club.
		
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No one doubts there are improvements in the modern game, but I’d argue more has been lost, the gap between the teams is now massive, the chances of a modern day Wimbledon are virtually nil.

Sadly it’s no longer a Sport, more a business, yes we have to accept it, but it doesn’t mean we have to like it.

It’s probably an age thing, but those that grew up in the 70’s & 80’s may think the game has changed for the worst.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You are right about the players - but there is no way they would go back to £10k a week unless there was a world wide cap. Players would just walk away to teams in Italy , France etc
		
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Make it worldwide then, like a handicap system.


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## Imurg (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Make it worldwide then, like a handicap system.
		
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But..but...that works differently in different countries....doesn't it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			No one doubts there are improvements in the modern game, but I’d argue more has been lost, the gap between the teams is now massive, the chances of a modern day Wimbledon are virtually nil.

Sadly it’s no longer a Sport, more a business, yes we have to accept it, but it doesn’t mean we have to like it.

It’s probably an age thing, but those that grew up in the 70’s & 80’s may think the game has changed for the worst.
		
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I was chatting about Norwich with my lad last night and checked when Delia had bought them, 96 as it happens, 52 or 53% share. Anyway I then found a good Canaries page looking at their accounts for the last season, or perhaps one before. Nothing iffy, no secret slush fund, all good. What did catch my eye was that the estimated wealth of Delia and her hubby was £30m. Nice but not PL. Had Lampard been given the job his bank balance would have been higher than the owners . Think of the other clubs and their owners and then think about what Norwich do. Very impressive.

Still on Norwich, can't believe no one else has mentioned Delia nodding off last night during the game . Very funny


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2021)

Imurg said:



			But..but...that works differently in different countries....doesn't it.

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Yes, Spanish clubs do what they want with TV deals and always win the Ballon D'or, apart from that no.


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## GB72 (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You are right about the players - but there is no way they would go back to £10k a week unless there was a world wide cap. Players would just walk away to teams in Italy , France etc
		
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In theory it would only take one or 2 countries to do that to crash they system effectively. You would then have a saturation of players looking for bigger money deals and that would drive down the wages based on supply and demand. 

Personally, I would look at targetting transfer fees first as that would be easier. Cap transfer fees at, lets say, 3 times the value of the time left on the wages on the contract. Player prices just cannot keep going up as they are. If you added a salary cap above any current earnings (lets say £1 million a week for the most elite players), that would limit their transfer fee to £150 million if there was 3 years left on their contract, which would freeze prices at the top end  of what is being paid now and that would only be what you would pay for the most elite players with long contracts. 

Apply that globally and it is a start, then start applying reductions to that maximum salary to start reeling things in. 

A pipe dream I know.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			It probably wont change, because its gone too far down the line, but you can reel it back in a lot.

I would estimate that 80% of the extra money has gone in the players pockets, with 10% going on facilities (which did need upgrading) and 10% on superfluous stuff like directors of football, extra physios, statisticians and all manner of extra staff, like throw in coaches.

Now that most facilities are very good, put the players back on 10k a week, 7-8 games at 3pm with a 5.30 saturday, 2pm and 4pm Sunday games.

Sorry, but players like Maddison buying a 6k backpack do my head in.
		
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That is how the world works though, not just football. Some people just get born lucky, they happen to have a rare talent and they ultimately get paid a lot for it. Whether it be many different types of sportsperson, movie star, pop star or even many in business. Yes, they may buy a back pack for £6k which is mental to most of us, but at least they are spending their money. That £6k goes into someone else's pocket, and so on and so forth. I've bought golf t-shirts for £100, and there will still be people that think that is relatively mental, everything is relative. Anyway, maybe this back back had some nice features 

Liverpoolphil is correct though, unless a worldwide cap is applied, then putting a salary cap in the PL would end up being a massive own goal for them. 

In terms of 7 games on a Saturday at 3pm, this can get tricky if you have 4 teams playing in the Champions League and 3-4 teams in Europa League. In many cases, Sunday matches may be better for some of those teams? You also have Monday Night Football, which is pretty popular amongst fans. If you start limiting live PL football to a Saturday evening and a couple of matches on a Sunday, it may become less attractive for fans to buy Sky, or at least both Sky and BT.

However, one interesting point is, are we at the peak in terms of the money gained from broadcasting in its current format? It is difficult to see how broadcasting companies can aim to make even more money, unless they can rake in more and more fans. I can't see them spreading out the fixtures much more than they do, so unless they can get to a point where every game is televised, even 3pm on Saturday, how do they make even more money? I wonder if that is why clubs tried to vote for that Super League, as they knew the only way they could get more money was to change the format to suit them, rather than improve broadcasting rights on the existing formats of each league.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



*In theory it would only take one or 2 countries to do that to crash they system effectively. You would then have a saturation of players looking for bigger money deals and that would drive down the wages based on supply and demand.*

Personally, I would look at targetting transfer fees first as that would be easier. Cap transfer fees at, lets say, 3 times the value of the time left on the wages on the contract. Player prices just cannot keep going up as they are. If you added a salary cap above any current earnings (lets say £1 million a week for the most elite players), that would limit their transfer fee to £150 million if there was 3 years left on their contract, which would freeze prices at the top end  of what is being paid now and that would only be what you would pay for the most elite players with long contracts.

Apply that globally and it is a start, then start applying reductions to that maximum salary to start reeling things in.

A pipe dream I know.
		
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But, if those one or 2 countries were, say England and Spain, then all the best players in the world would try to go to Italy, Germany or France. The Premier League would become like the Golf European Tour compared to Italy's PGA Tour.


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## GB72 (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			That is how the world works though, not just football. Some people just get born lucky, they happen to have a rare talent and they ultimately get paid a lot for it. Whether it be many different types of sportsperson, movie star, pop star or even many in business. Yes, they may buy a back pack for £6k which is mental to most of us, but at least they are spending their money. That £6k goes into someone else's pocket, and so on and so forth. I've bought golf t-shirts for £100, and there will still be people that think that is relatively mental, everything is relative. Anyway, maybe this back back had some nice features 

Liverpoolphil is correct though, unless a worldwide cap is applied, then putting a salary cap in the PL would end up being a massive own goal for them.

In terms of 7 games on a Saturday at 3pm, this can get tricky if you have 4 teams playing in the Champions League and 3-4 teams in Europa League. In many cases, Sunday matches may be better for some of those teams? You also have Monday Night Football, which is pretty popular amongst fans. If you start limiting live PL football to a Saturday evening and a couple of matches on a Sunday, it may become less attractive for fans to buy Sky, or at least both Sky and BT.

However, one interesting point is, are we at the peak in terms of the money gained from broadcasting in its current format? It is difficult to see how broadcasting companies can aim to make even more money, unless they can rake in more and more fans. I can't see them spreading out the fixtures much more than they do, so unless they can get to a point where every game is televised, even 3pm on Saturday, how do they make even more money? I wonder if that is why clubs tried to vote for that Super League, as they knew the only way they could get more money was to change the format to suit them, rather than improve broadcasting rights on the existing formats of each league.
		
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The plethora of streaming companies will deal with the increase in money. Sky will pay the same but for less matches and then the like of Amazon Prime or any other streaming company that wants to up its profile will pay a premium for a small tranche of matches. Good for club pockets, bad for the fan. Hate to think what you would need to pay now to see all of your clubs televised matches.


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## GB72 (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			But, if those one or 2 countries were, say England and Spain, then all the best players in the world would try to go to Italy, Germany or France. The Premier League would become like the Golf European Tour compared to Italy's PGA Tour.
		
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True but Germany are not big wage payers and suddenly you have a ton of players on the market looking to go to a more limited number of clubs. If you have 3 strikers all looking for a deal to get out of the premier league, the clubs are gong to negiate wages down due to that excesss supply.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 1, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465784991074471942
Shanked it 😂


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## Fade and Die (Dec 1, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			That all sounds nice but the fact is I might as well be watching kabaddi or quidditch for all I know of what's going on on the pitch. 

Click to expand...


Also its not much of a spectacle live. 16 blokes scrummaging down the other end of the pitch then either a penalty for some reason you cannot fathom or something else you cannot make out! Much more enjoyable on the TV.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			The plethora of streaming companies will deal with the increase in money. Sky will pay the same but for less matches and then the like of Amazon Prime or any other streaming company that wants to up its profile will pay a premium for a small tranche of matches. Good for club pockets, bad for the fan. *Hate to think what you would need to pay now to see all of your clubs televised matches.*

Click to expand...

£50.00 per year for the dodgy firestick from Mick on Facebook.


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## GB72 (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			£50.00 per year for the dodgy firestick from Mick on Facebook.

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Hardly suprising that people resort to that with having to pay Sky, BT, Amazon etc just to see all of your teams matches.


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## nickjdavis (Dec 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			What I have never understood is why Boxing day and New Year fixtures are not dedicated to being local derbys. Promote and market it as this and I am sure it will be popular. Each club plays the nearest 2 clubs ot them over those 2 matches or even do the home and away fixtures back to back.
		
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They used to be....back in the "olden days" (Very olden days), but in more modern times the fixture computer rarely thinks so intelligently (having said that...my perception is that fixtures have seemed a bit more sensible over the Xmas period in recent years).

I do remember going to watch Newcastle away at Southend on New Years Day once in the early 90's....luckily I lived in Essex so it was far quicker/easier to get to than a home game at the time....but the poor sods travelling back to Newcastle after a 4-0 defeat....I did feel for them!!!


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## GB72 (Dec 1, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			They used to be....back in the "olden days" (Very olden days), but in more modern times the fixture computer rarely thinks so intelligently (having said that...my perception is that fixtures have seemed a bit more sensible over the Xmas period in recent years).

I do remember going to watch Newcastle away at Southend on New Years Day once in the early 90's....luckily I lived in Essex so it was far quicker/easier to get to than a home game at the time....but the poor sods travelling back to Newcastle after a 4-0 defeat....I did feel for them!!!
		
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it is not lmited to football. Tigers have had the treck down to Exeter on New years Eve very recently.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			That is how the world works though, not just football. Some people just get born lucky, they happen to have a rare talent and they ultimately get paid a lot for it. Whether it be many different types of sportsperson, movie star, pop star or even many in business. Yes, they may buy a back pack for £6k which is mental to most of us, but at least they are spending their money. That £6k goes into someone else's pocket, and so on and so forth. I've bought golf t-shirts for £100, and there will still be people that think that is relatively mental, everything is relative. Anyway, maybe this back back had some nice features 

Liverpoolphil is correct though, unless a worldwide cap is applied, then putting a salary cap in the PL would end up being a massive own goal for them.

In terms of 7 games on a Saturday at 3pm, this can get tricky if you have 4 teams playing in the Champions League and 3-4 teams in Europa League. In many cases, Sunday matches may be better for some of those teams? You also have Monday Night Football, which is pretty popular amongst fans. If you start limiting live PL football to a Saturday evening and a couple of matches on a Sunday, it may become less attractive for fans to buy Sky, or at least both Sky and BT.

However, one interesting point is, are we at the peak in terms of the money gained from broadcasting in its current format? It is difficult to see how broadcasting companies can aim to make even more money, unless they can rake in more and more fans. I can't see them spreading out the fixtures much more than they do, so unless they can get to a point where every game is televised, even 3pm on Saturday, how do they make even more money? I wonder if that is why clubs tried to vote for that Super League, as they knew the only way they could get more money was to change the format to suit them, rather than improve broadcasting rights on the existing formats of each league.
		
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I'm sorry, but you can keep on throwing what ifs and maybes, and why dont we's at me, but overall you have only looking at it from the TV fan perspective, and unless you have done the hard yards the other way, you wont understand what is involved.

I go to 95% of the home games now, and virtually no away games as lost all my credits (my own decision) so although dont travel any more, it was something I did from between  the ages of 13-45 (1983-2015), so have gone on the old footy specials, regular rail, coach, ferry, plane, car and possibly others, so know what planning, money and commitment is involved.

It doesnt benefit me any more but I would still massively take into account the away fans views on many things though. The £20 cap was a great idea, sadly I missed it by 1-2 years, but when West Brom start charging you £52, it was time to sack it.

And before you get up in arms about it, how was the spectacle of the premiership with no fans in - crap - so think about it without any fans before "advising" away fans what they should just put up with!!!!


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2021)

GB72 said:



			True but Germany are not big wage payers and suddenly you have a ton of players on the market looking to go to a more limited number of clubs. If you have 3 strikers all looking for a deal to get out of the premier league, the clubs are gong to negiate wages down due to that excesss supply.
		
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Germany's zeigeist should be copied by all European leagues - just get rid of Bayern Munich, though.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



*I'm sorry, but you can keep on throwing what ifs and maybes,* and why dont we's at me, but overall you have only looking at it from the TV fan perspective, and ubless you have done the hard yards the other way, you want understand what is involved.

I go to 95% of the home games now, and virtually no away games as lost all my credits (my own decision) so although dont travel any more, it was something I did from between  the ages of 13-45 (1983-2015), so have gone on the old footy specials, regular rail, coach, ferry, plane, car and possibly others, so know what planning, money and commitment is involved.

It doesnt benefit me any more but I would still massively take into account the aways fans views on many things though. The £20 cap was a great idea, sadly I missed it by 1-2 years, but when West Brom start charging you £52, it was time to sack it.

And before you get up in arms about it, how crap was the spectacle of the premiership with no fans in - crap, so think about it without any fans before "advising" away fans what they should just put up with!!!!
		
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Those are pretty important questions if you are proposing things change. It is pretty important to look at the consequences of your actions, not just looking at it from your own selfish point of view.

And yes, I'm looking at it from a fan who watches most football on TV. So of course I will be looking at it from a different angle to you. However, I am not the only one in my position. There will be millions more in my position as well.

So, you can demand player salary caps. You can demand more 3pm kick off games. You can demand less games on TV. All very well, but if you are not looking out for the potential negative consequences of those actions, what is the point?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe your attitude sums up fans living in the past?



			How does my posts equate to living in the past?
		
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If Sunderland are going to play away at Southampton, there is going to be a long trip ahead. Now some travelling fans may despise an early start (if it was a 12:30 kick off). Others might prefer it, as they prefer to travel early and get home at a semi reasonable time. Every fan will be different. However, if you are a fan that is committed to going to those games, don't moan about the logistics in getting there. I'd be more sympathetic if all your arrangements had been made, and then the fixture kick off / date was changed at the last minute. I certainly would back up your frustrations on that particular point.

I'm sure the calendar is not absolutely perfect in terms of every fixture being played at the ideal time, but it is not every week that a club is in Europe on a Wednesday and has a noon kick off on a Saturday. It happens, yes, especially to the big clubs, but it is not every week. And, if the fixture is moved because of TV, if it is such a hardship, watch it on TV that week. Nobody will think less of you.

Yes, Sky are selfish and are in it to make money. That is what businesses do. However, to do so they need to have a strong relationship with clubs and fans. They do so by giving clubs lots of money, and televising games for fans to watch (of which there will be many more than attend the game itself, again for the big clubs at least).

*It is your attitude which scares me when people say it could be a good idea if fans were to take over clubs*.



			what attitude is that? Point where i said it was a good idea please
		
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What would season ticket holders at clubs like Liverpool, City, Chelsea, etc do? Veto 12pm kick offs, even if the games can no longer be televised? Would they accept a severe loss in revenue? Would they be happy to tell the millions of die hard fans of their clubs, those that invest in Sky or go to the pub, that "sorry, the game will not be on this week because travelling fans do not want to get up early to get to the game"? But, it is match going fans who know what is best, so certainly my opinion should be in no way respected.




			Jesus christ you dont half type some tripe. Is it really unfair for fans to ask the TV schedulers to think about fans when they're planning TV games?
		
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PS: As I said before, I have full respect for the commitment of match going fans. I'd like to think most just get on with it, and enjoy their hobby. Perhaps they'll have the odd grumble when they've a long trip, unsuitable kick off time or go to a ground that is more inaccessible than many others. But, that is just part and parcel of football these days. We are not going back to the dark ages where every match is at 3pm on a Saturday, and the only chance non match goers will ever get to see their team is for a few minutes on Match of the Day.
		
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Nobody is moaning at all. You asked for an example of a potential 7hr journey for a 1230 ko and i provided you with one. 

Most match going fans accepted change in KO times many many years ago. The ones that never, stopped going, those who cant let go through the emotional attachment to football, having a big circle of friends through football etc keep going. 

When you support a team from your local area and its ingrained in you from such a young age its very hard to let go. 

I'll Guarantee  you one thing, if there was more money to be made with Tlevised 3pm KO's  then 3pm KO's would be back in a heartbeat. 

My post 18,888 is accurate.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Nobody is moaning at all. You asked for an example of a potential 7hr journey for a 1230 ko and i provided you with one.

Most match going fans accepted change in KO times many many years ago. The ones that never, stopped going, those who cant let go through the emotional attachment to football, having a big circle of friends through football etc keep going.

When you support a team from your local area and its ingrained in you from such a young age its very hard to let go.

I'll Guarantee  you one thing, if there was more money to be made with Tlevised 3pm KO's  then 3pm KO's would be back in a heartbeat.

My post 18,888 is accurate.
		
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Yes, there is a lot of truth in post 18,888. Telly clappers are important to football as well. They too are people like yourself, who love watching football.

Furthermore, I am sure there were many season ticket holders that were pleased that football continued during the pandemic. Yes, they couldn't go to the game, but I am sure many of them would have preferred to watch their teams on television at least, rather than have no football during a truly miserable time.


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## 4LEX (Dec 1, 2021)

I love live football and attend around 20 games a season. A dozen of my club and a mix of big games as a neutral. Some seasons it's more, some less. I have done home and away for a few years and had a season ticket for over a decade when younger so I understand the comments from proper match goers. I reached 60 of Club 92 at one point. However I find it staggering anyone with a full time job, family and interests can find the time to watch all that football and travel.

Like all sports, football has evolved and will continue to do so. As someone with a foot in both camps, I would like to see a balance of lower ticket prices for the match going fans but also more games on TV for the global audience. If that happens then a decent chunk has to be alloted for the clubs down the pyramid who would suffer. A wage cap would never happen as the current players would strike and no club, league or broadcaster would have the bottle to sit it out. You'd have to write of the current generation of stars and start again.


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## Hobbit (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, there is a lot of truth in post 18,888. Telly clappers are important to football as well. They too are people like yourself, who love watching football.

Furthermore, I am sure there were many season ticket holders that were pleased that football continued during the pandemic. Yes, they couldn't go to the game, but I am sure many of them would have preferred to watch their teams on television at least, rather than have no football during a truly miserable time.
		
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Bizarrely, you could argue telly clappers are more important. Who do you think the tv ads are targeted at? Where does the majority of money come from? Advertising?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, there is a lot of truth in post 18,888. Telly clappers are important to football as well. They too are people like yourself, who love watching football.

*Furthermore, I am sure there were many season ticket holders that were pleased that football continued during the pandemic. Yes, they couldn't go to the game, but I am sure many of them would have preferred to watch their teams on television at least, rather than have no football during a truly miserable time.*

Click to expand...

For the majority of last season most games BCD was a painful watch, thats without talking about Liverpool games. Fans in grounds makes the game the telly clappers crave. 

Anyway thats enough of this subject for me. Enjoy Amazon's awful delayed streams for tonights games.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Bizarrely, you could argue telly clappers are more important. Who do you think the tv ads are targeted at? Where does the majority of money come from? Advertising?
		
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I could, but the way the discussion was going, that would be the nuclear option. The "you can't handle the truth" card. And, no doubt I'd be accused of being a disgrace to football, and the worst enemy to all season ticket holders.

So, I'll take pleasure watching you run with that one


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			For the majority of last season most games BCD was a painful watch, thats without talking about Liverpool games. Fans in grounds makes the game the telly clappers crave.

Anyway thats enough of this subject for me. Enjoy Amazon's awful delayed streams for tonights games.
		
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Agreed, football is relatively rubbish with no fans. I don't for one second want that. But, I'd rather have had that, than none at all.


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## Hobbit (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I could, but the way the discussion was going, that would be the nuclear option. The "you can't handle the truth" card. And, no doubt I'd be accused of being a disgrace to football, and the worst enemy to all season ticket holders.

So, I'll take pleasure watching you run with that one 

Click to expand...

Like you, I bottled it. Hence “you could argue…” I didn’t say “it is…”


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Bizarrely, you could argue telly clappers are more important. Who do you think the tv ads are targeted at? Where does the majority of money come from? Advertising?
		
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They’re more important to the TV companies, not to the game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2021)

Revenue is huge to the game right now - and a lot of that revenue comes down advertising.

It shouldn’t be top trumps on who supports a club better than someone else - each fan of a club will have their own importance to the next.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			They’re more important to the TV companies, not to the game.
		
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Interesting point, I'm not so sure. Just to try and isolate the two components:

Scenario 1: End all TV contracts. You want to see your team, go to the game.

Scenario 2: All matches shown on TV live, but empty stadiums.

No doubt, both scenarios are worse that the current situation. Fans would be lost from game. However, Scenario 1 would mean I, and millions of others, would never see our teams again. Forgetting travelling logistics, there are not enough seats at Old Trafford. And, there'd be none available, as tickets would initially be like gold dust. Ticket prices may end up being enormous due to supply and demand. Millions would simply stop following football, there'd be nothing to follow for many. Sure, this would probably result in more competitive football across the leagues, as the big clubs lose a massive amount of supporters, and small clubs retain their local support they probably already had.

Scenario 2 atmosphere would be killed, and that too would reduce fans. However, the game would still be accessible to millions more.

So, from my perspective, I'm going to go out on a limb to day the television fan is more important to the game. Maybe others, especially supporters of small clubs in lower leagues, would prefer Scenario 1.

Maybe there is no right or wrong answer. Scenario 2 may be right for me and millions of others. Scenario 1 could be genuinely the right answer for many match goers.


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## Hobbit (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			They’re more important to the TV companies, not to the game.
		
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Would the Premiership exist in guise we know it without tv money? No. Would advertisers pay Sky if there were no viewers? No. Ergo football, indirectly, needs tv clappers.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Would the Premiership exist in guise we know it without tv money? No. Would advertisers pay Sky if there were no viewers? No. Ergo football, indirectly, needs tv clappers.
		
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I understand that Brian, but listen to the players/managers etc during and after the lockdown and the effect of empty stadiums.

I more than accept the ship has sailed on the way football was and it’s more of a business than a sport these days.

But instead of taking extreme views and making ridiculous points (not you) why not try and find some middle ground, ie, a bit more thought for the travelling fans when a possible move of fixture is being considered, Hairball’s comment about this years Boxing Day fixture when there is no public transport available being a case in point.

If a PL team is playing in Europe on a tuesday they are guaranteed to play on the saturday before. We’ve seen examples of teams playing away in Europe on the tuesday being the 4:00pm kick off on the previous sunday.

You’ve more than paid your dues as many of us have, but the telly clapper whose never been inside a ground telling fans who currently go the game what they should and should not accept is laughable.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2021)

I still go to a few games at Fulham each season and the cost when you include train fare, food, drink and the ticket is significant these days. It would definitely stop me being a season ticket holder. I also go to a few national league games, usually Maidenhead, and even at that level, the admission has crept up over the last few years. That said the cost of drinks and food is much cheaper so swings and roundabouts. I still have that desire to see football live and still get right into the game from the first whistle. There will come a time when I can't go to games and will be an armchair fan and so will be reliant on BT sport and Sky to bring me my football fix and so accept that the money they pump into the coffers for the rights to games is an evil but one I have to live with if I want to watch the matches


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Those are pretty important questions if you are proposing things change. It is pretty important to look at the consequences of your actions, not just looking at it from your own selfish point of view.

And yes, I'm looking at it from a fan who watches most football on TV. So of course I will be looking at it from a different angle to you. However, I am not the only one in my position. There will be millions more in my position as well.

So, you can demand player salary caps. You can demand more 3pm kick off games. You can demand less games on TV. All very well, but if you are not looking out for the potential negative consequences of those actions, what is the point?
		
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Thats the point that has sailed over your head though, and its a bit rich coming from you when talking about being selfish.

I'm looking at it from both perspectives - a matchgoer, and a TV watcher - you've only ever been one of them. 

Yes, the TV caters to your every need and you have shown a singular lack or respect for the fans who do travel with some of your comments. 

Your not a fan, your just a voyeur.


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## Piece (Dec 1, 2021)

Good old Amazon Prime! Apparently we are playing a seriously injured midfield player in defence 😂😂😳

I would never have known this if I had bothered to go 😂😉


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I understand that Brian, but listen to the players/managers etc during and after the lockdown and the effect of empty stadiums.

I more than accept the ship has sailed on the way football was and it’s more of a business than a sport these days.

But instead of taking extreme views and making ridiculous points (not you) why not try and find some middle ground, ie, a bit more thought for the travelling fans when a possible move of fixture is being considered, Hairball’s comment about this years Boxing Day fixture when there is no public transport available being a case in point.

If a PL team is playing in Europe on a tuesday they are guaranteed to play on the saturday before. We’ve seen examples of teams playing away in Europe on the tuesday being the 4:00pm kick off on the previous sunday.

You’ve more than paid your dues as many of us have, *but the telly clapper whose never been inside a ground telling fans who currently go the game what they should and should not accept is laughable.*

Click to expand...

Love the arrogance in such a statement. And the irony. Telly clappers have no right to have a say (if a match fan disagrees), but match fans opinion is sacred. But, that is fine. If you don't want to see a telly clappers point of view from their perspective, that is up to you. I'm also not against ideas such as sticking fixtures with long travel distances to 3pm kick off if that works. However, I felt there are bound to be issues with that. Not least, if those 2 clubs happened to be playing an important fixture in which broadcasters desperately wished to televise.

 Maybe the way things are at the moment are already some sort of middle ground. Perhaps if TV companies had 100% complete control, and had zero interest in clubs, players, managers, or season ticket holders, then the big clubs would never have a 3pm kick off on a Saturday ever again. 

With millions of people interested in football, nothing is ever going to please everyone. I only think this discussion got going when I personally didn't see a major issue for a Sunderland fan having to leave at 4am once in a blue moon. And 4am was only a time mentioned by another poster, but also acknowledged that would be pretty extreme based on the general travel time, even from Sunderland. And if fans are travelling between Sunderland and Southampton, travelling is going to be a major pain in the backside regardless.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats the point that has sailed over your head though, and its a bit rich coming from you when talking about being selfish.

I'm looking at it from both perspectives - a matchgoer, and a TV watcher - you've only ever been one of them.

Yes, the TV caters to your every need and you have shown a singular lack or respect for the fans who do travel with some of your comments.

Your not a fan, your just a voyeur.
		
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What makes you think I haven't been to matches? I said that I typically watch United on TV now, but you presume all I have ever done is search football on TV.

Stop trying to take the high ground. And I am not being critical of match going fans in general. Just asking basic questions of some in here that seem to find it unacceptable that a fan may have to get up early to get to Southampton from Sunderland. I'd blame geography more than anything.


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## Hobbit (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I understand that Brian, but listen to the players/managers etc during and after the lockdown and the effect of empty stadiums.

I more than accept the ship has sailed on the way football was and it’s more of a business than a sport these days.

But instead of taking extreme views and making ridiculous points (not you) why not try and find some middle ground, ie, a bit more thought for the travelling fans when a possible move of fixture is being considered, Hairball’s comment about this years Boxing Day fixture when there is no public transport available being a case in point.

If a PL team is playing in Europe on a tuesday they are guaranteed to play on the saturday before. We’ve seen examples of teams playing away in Europe on the tuesday being the 4:00pm kick off on the previous sunday.

You’ve more than paid your dues as many of us have, but the telly clapper whose never been inside a ground telling fans who currently go the game what they should and should not accept is laughable.
		
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Changing scheduling to something more sensible would almost come at zero extra cost to Sky. If anything it might make quite a difference to European success, which would mean more viewers and more tv advertising revenue.

Salary caps would only work if it was adopted globally. Cap salaries in the Prem would see players go abroad. Poorer games = less viewers = less tv revenue.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 1, 2021)

Not good at Vicarage Road, hopefully the fan makes a full recovery.  Good to see the Chelsea medical staff going over to assist, and that's not a knock at Watford's staff who were treating their own injured player at the time.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Love the arrogance in such a statement. And the irony. Telly clappers have no right to have a say (if a match fan disagrees), but match fans opinion is sacred. But, that is fine. If you don't want to see a telly clappers point of view from their perspective, that is up to you. I'm also not against ideas such as sticking fixtures with long travel distances to 3pm kick off if that works. However, I felt there are bound to be issues with that. Not least, if those 2 clubs happened to be playing an important fixture in which broadcasters desperately wished to televise.

Maybe the way things are at the moment are already some sort of middle ground. Perhaps if TV companies had 100% complete control, and had zero interest in clubs, players, managers, or season ticket holders, then the big clubs would never have a 3pm kick off on a Saturday ever again.

With millions of people interested in football, nothing is ever going to please everyone. I only think this discussion got going when I personally didn't see a major issue for a Sunderland fan having to leave at 4am once in a blue moon. And 4am was only a time mentioned by another poster, but also acknowledged that would be pretty extreme based on the general travel time, even from Sunderland. And if fans are travelling between Sunderland and Southampton, travelling is going to be a major pain in the backside regardless.
		
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1. Point me to where I've said TV fand have no right to say anything.
2. Match fans have lots of different POV with regards to anything so a view can't be sacred - again, where have I said that?
3. What credentials do you have to give a POV from both sides?

YOU came on with the total lack of respect to the match going fan, so reap what you sow, although a lot of back-tracking now, I see.

Dont forget, some of these match goers will be kids, as well.

You want all the benefits of football, but with hardly any "support", unless you call a sky subscription an investment in football.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			What makes you think I haven't been to matches? I said that I typically watch United on TV now, but you presume all I have ever done is search football on TV.

Stop trying to take the high ground. And I am not being critical of match going fans in general. Just asking basic questions of some in here that seem to find it unacceptable that a fan may have to get up early to get to Southampton from Sunderland. I'd blame geography more than anything.
		
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Go on then, the stage is yours, tell us about your experiences and match stats......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Changing scheduling to something more sensible would almost come at zero extra cost to Sky. If anything it might make quite a difference to European success, which would mean more viewers and more tv advertising revenue.

Salary caps would only work if it was adopted globally. Cap salaries in the Prem would see players go abroad. Poorer games = less viewers = less tv revenue.
		
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I don’t think salary caps are viable, far too many greedy folk, plus Sky are messing about fans in the EFL not just the PL.

Apparently one of the reasons games are not shown live at 3pm is that it would stop fans going to the matches and it is at the PL’s insistance.

Why not trial it, surely the proof will be in attendance figures.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 1, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not good at Vicarage Road, hopefully the fan makes a full recovery.  Good to see the Chelsea medical staff going over to assist, and that's not a knock at Watford's staff who were treating their own injured player at the time.
		
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Great to see the Watford fans applauding the Chelsea medical staff as they went back to the dugout.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			1. Point me to where I've said TV fand have no right to say anything.
2. Match fans have lots of different POV with regards to anything so a view can't be sacred - again, where have I said that?
3. What credentials do you have to give a POV from both sides?

YOU came on with the total lack of respect to the match going fan, so reap what you sow, although a lot of back-tracking now, I see.

Dont forget, some of these match goers will be kids, as well.

You want all the benefits of football, but with hardly any "support", unless you call a sky subscription an investment in football.
		
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I was actually responding to another poster to be fair, not you. There is a clear disrespect to "telly clappers" in some of the statements made.

I've not once told match goers what they should and should not expect. I have even said that a lot of these questions may have no one correct answer, as it completely depends on an individuals perspective.

I don't think TV companies try, or want to annoy fans. Fans are their customers. Match goers are important to them as well, I've already stated atmosphere is huge.

I've been to plenty of games in my time. I've followed N Ireland, and my times at Euro 2016 were amongst the best times of my life. So, I'm.not for one second dismissing match goers. Just trying to figure out that, if Sky do things to annoy match goers from time to time, what is the reason? What is the benefit? How often does it happen?


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## fundy (Dec 1, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not good at Vicarage Road, hopefully the fan makes a full recovery.  Good to see the Chelsea medical staff going over to assist, and that's not a knock at Watford's staff who were treating their own injured player at the time.
		
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Is this happening more often or are we just more aware of it lately?


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think salary caps are viable, far too many greedy folk, plus Sky are messing about fans in the EFL not just the PL.

Apparently one of the reasons games are not shown live at 3pm is that it would stop fans going to the matches and it is at the PL’s insistance.

Why not trial it, surely the proof will be in attendance figures.
		
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Given that the majority at Chelsea are season ticket holders, I can't see them suddenly putting their feet up in front of the tele.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Great to see the Watford fans applauding the Chelsea medical staff as they went back to the dugout. 

Click to expand...

Happened at wolves as well. 
Young lad hit with the ball and his mum looks like she’s got a bloody nose.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Is this happening more often or are we just more aware of it lately?
		
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I just said exactly the same thing. Are we more aware now because games are being stopped for it? In the past have games continued while these incidents have gone on?


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Is this happening more often or are we just more aware of it lately?
		
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Given the age, health & diet of the average match day fan I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.  With the modern TV coverage we are going to be more aware of it.


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## Hobbit (Dec 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Is this happening more often or are we just more aware of it lately?
		
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Or are these incidents happening to recovered Covid sufferers? There’s even been at least 3 professional footballers in the last 6 months…


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 1, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Or are these incidents happening to recovered Covid sufferers? There’s even been at least 3 professional footballers in the last 6 months…
		
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This one amazes me; given the medical and health facilities that they have access to there is something amiss that it can happen to them.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			This one amazes me; given the medical and health facilities that they have access to there is something amiss that it can happen to them.
		
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Look at Aguero though. 
You would think a heart problem would be picked up


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 1, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Look at Aguero though.
You would think a heart problem would be picked up
		
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That was my point, it should be picked up given the facilities available.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			That was my point, it should be picked up given the facilities available.
		
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Might be the player himself. 
A lot wear monitors in their shirts what they monitor though is a mystery.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Is this happening more often or are we just more aware of it lately?
		
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I was thinking the same thing. Long term Covid effects? Loss of fitness after being locked up for so long? Or just acted on more publicly in this day and age? Worrying stuff whatever the reason


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 1, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Might be the player himself.
A lot wear monitors in their shirts what they monitor though is a mystery.
		
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I thought that they were GPS type devices so that the data could be downloaded and looked at after each game to see the positions that the player was in. No idea if they measure any biometric data as well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2021)

This could be an absolute drubbing!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



 This could be an absolute drubbing!
		
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😬😬😬


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2021)

Oh dear. Could have been 3-0 already and Everton can't get a kick


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Amazon Prime has not been too bad for last nights games, or early kick offs tonight.

Just put on Merseyside derby, and it is like watching it through a rain soaked glass window. Ridiculous


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Amazon Prime has not been too bad for last nights games, or early kick offs tonight.

Just put on Merseyside derby, and it is like watching it through a rain soaked glass window. Ridiculous
		
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Struggled to watch any of the early kick offs on the TV but watching on the laptop and not too bad


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 1, 2021)

I think Townsend only deserves a 3.2 for that effort. No arching of the back and no pike or twist loses him a lot of points.


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## Hobbit (Dec 1, 2021)

Oh dear


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2021)

Everton are almost as bad as Man Utd. However, as long as the score is not worse than 19-0, they are at least better than the Latvian women


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2021)

Sadly my stream is giving perfect picture quality 😔


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## fundy (Dec 1, 2021)

Another one at Saints 

Leicester City  @LCFC
9m
There will be a delay to kick-off for the second half due to a medical emergency in the stands.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 1, 2021)

And now another medical emergency in the crowd, this time in the Southampton v Leicester game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2021)

At least the Everton fans are having fun , refusing to give the ball back for the corner then throwing it back on 😂😂 well the fans that haven’t walked out


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## pokerjoke (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Amazon Prime has not been too bad for last nights games, or early kick offs tonight.

Just put on Merseyside derby, and it is like watching it through a rain soaked glass window. Ridiculous
		
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Mines fantastic 
You could be missing 10 goals here


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## BiMGuy (Dec 1, 2021)

Are Amazon using the fake crowd noises at the Villa game?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2021)

Anyone know where I can find a squirrel 😆


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## pokerjoke (Dec 1, 2021)

This is turning nasty 
All the faking,diving and feigning injury is Tv gold.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 1, 2021)

I thought Palace wasting time after 60 minutes yesterday was embarrassing. But Villa are even worse.

It’s safe to say trying a high press against Citeh isn’t the best idea if you can’t do it properly.


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## Jensen (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At least the Everton fans are having fun , refusing to give the ball back for the corner then throwing it back on 😂😂 well the fans that haven’t walked out
		
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Thank goodness for the true telly fans, who keep us updated 😉


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## Jensen (Dec 1, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			This is turning nasty
All the faking,diving and feigning injury is Tv gold.
		
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Wouldn’t be TV gold if you were there 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Dec 1, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I think Townsend only deserves a 3.2 for that effort. No arching of the back and no pike or twist loses him a lot of points.
		
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better from Gray, more a 5.4 that lol


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## Tashyboy (Dec 1, 2021)

Take a bow Bernardo


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 1, 2021)

Who's everyone putting their cash on getting the first red card? I'm going Thiago or Allan but think probably Allan first up.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			better from Gray, more a 5.4 that lol
		
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Even better from Gordon. No contact at all. Definitely a 5.9.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought that they were GPS type devices so that the data could be downloaded and looked at after each game to see the positions that the player was in. No idea if they measure any biometric data as well.
		
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Yes they are but must track heartbeat I would have thought.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Amazon Prime has not been too bad for last nights games, or early kick offs tonight.

Just put on Merseyside derby, and it is like watching it through a rain soaked glass window. Ridiculous
		
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Brilliant here


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I think Townsend only deserves a 3.2 for that effort. No arching of the back and no pike or twist loses him a lot of points.
		
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Have they employed a diving coach. 
That’s another one no touch by robo
Karma at other end.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2021)

👏👏👏👏Jota


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## SteveW86 (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			👏👏👏👏Jota
		
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Is Firmino injured, or is Jota working his way to first choice? He seems to contribute more goals.


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## Dando (Dec 1, 2021)

Poor keeping again by Pickford


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Is Firmino injured, or is Jota working his way to first choice? He seems to contribute more goals.
		
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Bobby is injured at the moment

Henderson has been outstanding tonight 

Good to hear Rafa’s name being sung at Goodison 😁


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## Jensen (Dec 1, 2021)

Dando said:



			Poor keeping again by Pickford
		
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I’ve been very impressed by Ramsdale  this season, he looks like becoming a top keeper. He could become England’s No 1


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Bobby is injured at the moment

Henderson has been outstanding tonight

Good to hear Rafa’s name being sung at Goodison 😁
		
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Hendo mom for me. 
Brilliant from reds. 
Some very good goals


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’ve been very impressed by Ramsdale  this season, he looks like becoming a top keeper. He could become England’s No 1
		
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He gets plenty of work to do. I agree he’s excellent.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’ve been very impressed by Ramsdale  this season, he looks like becoming a top keeper. He could become England’s No 1
		
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Pickford is a poor GK - arms are too small 😁

From what I have seen of Ramsdale he makes a lot of easy stuff look spectacular but has also pulled off some great saves 

On a totally seperate point - from a Telly clapper pov - Ally McCoist is superb as a co commentator, just loves the game and makes it enjoyable


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## Jensen (Dec 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pickford is a poor GK - arms are too small 😁

From what I have seen of Ramsdale he makes a lot of easy stuff look spectacular but has also pulled off some great saves

On a totally seperate point - from a Telly clapper pov - Ally McCoist is superb as a co commentator, just loves the game and makes it enjoyable
		
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From what I’ve seen from my armchair/TV 😄😄 he seems to command his box well, which is a rarity these days. I think he has a presence about him too.

On a separate note, I no longer go to games, but I would say you see more at the game than compared to TV.  Watching the game at the ground you can see the tactics play out, players move off the ball, the shape and pattern. Whereas TV views just follow the ball. 👍


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## Jimaroid (Dec 1, 2021)

Pickford was awful tonight. Two of the goals he’s opened the goal right up and yet again he’s got his hands inactive waiting for something to happen. He’s got to make himself bigger. Drives me nuts.

Anyway, too easy to single him out as to be fair he’s being put under pressure in a dreadful team and he’s never got any chance against so many in-form players. 

Everton are just woeful.

Henderson was flawless tonight. It’s annoying how good it is watching Liverpool play at the moment. 😂


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## Swingalot (Dec 1, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I thought Palace wasting time after 60 minutes yesterday was embarrassing. But Villa are even worse..
		
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Oh bore off.

I resisted the temptation to bite last night when I was still fuming with the last minute defeat (again) but you win, I've had to bite.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 1, 2021)

Paddy Power now paying out on any bets for Benitez to be the next PL manager to lose his job.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2021)

What a performance, Henderson MOTM, Jota superb, 4 cracking goals with Jota's being the highlight.

Always great to beat your nearest rivals and ruin the Ev's xmas again😁

Only disappointment was it should've been 7🤣


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## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes they are but must track heartbeat I would have thought.
		
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No StatSports have the GPS tracker at the back of the neck. To monitor heartrate you need the wristband which isn't what pro footballers wear, at least on a matchday.


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## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverpool were outstanding, should really have been 5-0 up after 30 mins.

Mo Salah is different levels, his two finishes tonight were ridiculous.

Genuine pleasure to see the best player in the world at his peak do it week in, week out.


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## Junior (Dec 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			This is turning nasty
All the faking,diving and feigning injury is Tv gold.
		
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Fair play to the ref for booking the diving.  He's not having the best of games be he caught most of it.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

Junior said:



			Fair play to the ref for booking the diving.  He's not having the best of games be he caught most of it.
		
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Shame he got the Robbo booking wrong, he never touched him.

Gordon wins a freekick by diving, ball goes out for a corner and we score from it. Cheating doesnt pay 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## BiMGuy (Dec 2, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			Oh bore off.

I resisted the temptation to bite last night when I was still fuming with the last minute defeat (again) but you win, I've had to bite.
		
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What did I say that wasn’t true? And I wasn’t the only one to say it!

As a fan are you happy that your team was wasting time from early in the second half when the score was 0-0? I wouldn’t be is that was my team.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Shame he got the Robbo booking wrong, he never touched him.

Gordon wins a freekick by diving, ball goes out for a corner and we score from it. *Cheating doesnt pay* 🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Seems to of worked for Mane and Salah for years
Our dickheads obviously need more practise to get to their level.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’ve been very impressed by Ramsdale  this season, he looks like becoming a top keeper. He could become England’s No 1
		
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Mate, once again he’s an easy target and it gets very boring tbh, Pickford has been excellent this year, even last night it could of been 6-7 if it wasn’t for him, sadly he’s got an awful team in front of him and no goalkeeper would look better with that

I’ve said many a time he’s the best of a bad bunch for England, but how many have been come along and failed to replace him, last year it was Henderson, before him Pope or Heaton and now Ramsdale.

Absolutely Ramsdale is on form, but he was relegated last season with Sheff Utd, not his fault, but were was this praise then?

Even the Euros Pickford had the best record and won the Golden Gloves, but never letting England down seems to be ignored.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Seems to of worked for Mane and Salah for years
Our dickheads obviously need more practise to get to their level.

Click to expand...

Too easy🤣🤣


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## Tashyboy (Dec 2, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			If the live clappers bei


What did I say that wasn’t true? And I wasn’t the only one to say it!

As a fan are you happy that your team was wasting time from early in the second half when the score was 0-0? I wouldn’t be is that was my team.
		
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I didn’t know the football was on Amazon last night until I read about it on here. So I watched the City game. I was shocked to see how much time Villa wasted it was unbelievable. Yet it now seems to be the norm. 
Another thing that narked me. A Villa player went down having banged his head. The ref waved play on. The game continued for a minute or so until the ball went out. The Villa player then went off concussed. How comes the ref never blew earlier.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Too easy🤣🤣
		
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You know you love it.


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## Hobbit (Dec 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, once again he’s an easy target and it gets very boring tbh, Pickford has been excellent this year, even last night it could of been 6-7 if it wasn’t for him, sadly he’s got an awful team in front of him and no goalkeeper would look better with that

I’ve said many a time he’s the best of a bad bunch for England, but how many have been come along and failed to replace him, last year it was Henderson, before him Pope or Heaton and now Ramsdale.

Absolutely Ramsdale is on form, but he was relegated last season with Sheff Utd, not his fault, but were was this praise then?

Even the Euros Pickford had the best record and won the Golden Gloves, but never letting England down seems to be ignored.
		
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Every player, irrespective of position, will make mistakes. And if he has a poor defence in front of him, he will be called on to make more saves. And if he sees more of the ball then he will make more mistakes numerically but it’s the percentage of mistakes ‘v’ touches that is the metric that should be used. Pickford is a good keeper with a poor defence in front of him.

That said, getting beat at his near post for Jota’s goal was poor. The other three he had no chance with. And he did make some exceptional saves, one just before the first goal, low to his right was outstanding.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Every player, irrespective of position, will make mistakes. And if he has a poor defence in front of him, he will be called on to make more saves. And if he sees more of the ball then he will make more mistakes numerically but it’s the percentage of mistakes ‘v’ touches that is the metric that should be used. Pickford is a good keeper with a poor defence in front of him.

That said, getting beat at his near post for Jota’s goal was poor. The other three he had no chance with. And he did make some exceptional saves, one just before the first goal, low to his right was outstanding.
		
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Theres more to goalkeeping than just making saves. His distribution for a international Keeper is shocking.

Couple of times last night he wellied the ball out of his hands up the pitch and it went straight through to Alison. Waste of possession. I've seen the above everytime i've watched them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Every player, irrespective of position, will make mistakes. And if he has a poor defence in front of him, he will be called on to make more saves. And if he sees more of the ball then he will make more mistakes numerically but it’s the percentage of mistakes ‘v’ touches that is the metric that should be used. Pickford is a good keeper with a poor defence in front of him.

That said, getting beat at his near post for Jota’s goal was poor. The other three he had no chance with. And he did make some exceptional saves, one just before the first goal, low to his right was outstanding.
		
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Absolutely Bri, just don’t get the posts mentioning the exceptional saves do we?

Hopefully Ramsdale or somebody else is the real deal and replaces him for England, but there’s 14 games gone and it’s like groundhog day.


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## Junior (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Shame he got the Robbo booking wrong, he never touched him.

Gordon wins a freekick by diving, ball goes out for a corner and we score from it. Cheating doesnt pay 🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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That was one he missed.  Joke of a decision & karma triumphed.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Theres more to goalkeeping than just making saves. His distribution for a international Keeper is shocking.

Couple of times last night he wellied the ball out of his hands up the pitch and it went straight through to Alison. Waste of possession. I've seen the above everytime i've watched them.
		
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Mate, we can criticise him all day, infact we could probably do it to 99% of PL Keepers, but we don’t, just Pickford, it’s lazy and unfair.

Even his distribution, has any player got a 100% success rate making a pass or as Brian put, what was his % of succesful passes.

Totally unfair using last night to prove it one way or another, we could of been 6 or 7 down by half time, Jota’s goal was superb, but no mention of how easily we were ripped apart or the pass finding him free in the box, or how he left Allan for dead? Nope, just Pickford getting beat at his near post!


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## BiMGuy (Dec 2, 2021)

Pickford took half a step too far left for the Salah goal. A small error in the grand scheme of things. 
Where is the criticism of the 10 outfield players who did nothing to prevent the goal?

Allison was more out of position for Everton’s goal. Again, where is the criticism?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Theres more to goalkeeping than just making saves. His distribution for a international Keeper is shocking.

Couple of times last night he wellied the ball out of his hands up the pitch and it went straight through to Alison. Waste of possession. I've seen the above everytime i've watched them.
		
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Pickford will stay as England Keeper until he makes a number of mistakes for them - Southgate is loyal to his players

One thing I noticed last night was how he looked like crazy legs crane whenever kicking the ball - just looked a hoof all the time with no thought of looking for a player etc.



BiMGuy said:



			Pickford took half a step too far left for the Salah goal. A small error in the grand scheme of things.
Where is the criticism of the 10 outfield players who did nothing to prevent the goal?

*Allison was more out of position for Everton’s goal. Again, where is the criticism?*

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Was he 🤷‍♂️ - centre of the goal for a one on one and nearly stopped it


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## Tashyboy (Dec 2, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Pickford took half a step too far left for the Salah goal. A small error in the grand scheme of things.
Where is the criticism of the 10 outfield players who did nothing to prevent the goal?

Allison was more out of position for Everton’s goal. Again, where is the criticism?
		
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I think Ederson showed last night why he has crept ahead of Allison.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 2, 2021)

I think Pickford's a good indicator of the mess the team is in. For such an experienced player where’s the leadership and command on the pitch? He makes some exceptional saves but that’s not the wider issue.

Loss of guaranteed possession from the back, both flailing balls up the pitch and strange choices in short balls. Goals from set pieces, the general defensive organisation and confusion. Bickering. These are all signs of something rotten in communication and strategy that he should (and can!) command. He’s not the only cause of it but for a player with his experience he’s complicit in the mess and I'd expect better.

He looks like a completely different person when in goal for England. It's frustrating to see.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 2, 2021)

Great showing from Villa last night despite the loss. City's goals were class.

We look ridiculously better so far under Gerrard, long may this continue!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, we can criticise him all day, infact we could probably do it to 99% of PL Keepers, but we don’t, just Pickford, it’s lazy and unfair.

Even his distribution, has any player got a 100% success rate making a pass or as Brian put, what was his % of succesful passes.

Totally unfair using last night to prove it one way or another, we could of been 6 or 7 down by half time, Jota’s goal was superb, but no mention of how easily we were ripped apart or the pass finding him free in the box, or how he left Allan for dead? Nope, just Pickford getting beat at his near post!

Click to expand...

We've had this discussion before about his distribution. I've been consistent on it. I was using last night as examples.

I'm not saying his distribition should be 100% every game or week. Since he's been at Everton his distribution hasnt improved enough imo.

I hope he stays Englands No1. 

Jota's turn for the goal was superb, not many defenders are getting anywhere near Jota nevermind Allan a CM.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			I think Pickford's a good indicator of the mess the team is in. For such an experienced player where’s the leadership and command on the pitch? He makes some exceptional saves but that’s not the wider issue.

Loss of guaranteed possession from the back, both flailing balls up the pitch and strange choices in short balls. Goals from set pieces, the general defensive organisation and confusion. Bickering. These are all signs of something rotten in communication and strategy that he should (and can!) command. He’s not the only cause of it but for a player with his experience he’s complicit in the mess and I'd expect better.

He looks like a completely different person when in goal for England. It's frustrating to see.
		
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Try being an Everton fan, injury excuses can only be used so much, the basic errors all over the field are shocking.

One thing I don’t want to see is Benitez getting the sack.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We've had this discussion before about his distribution. I've been consistent on it. I was using last night as examples.

I'm not saying his distribition should be 100% every game or week. Since he's been at Everton his distribution hasnt improved enough imo.

I hope he stays Englands No1.

Jota's turn for the goal was superb, not many defenders are getting anywhere near Jota nevermind Allan a CM.
		
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Unfortunately others can’t think for themselves and join your bandwagon.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2021)

Jota's goal didn't squeeze through a small gap at the near post. It was hit at close range, like a rocket, whistling past Pickford's ear, or was it giving him a centre parting? Singling that incident out for criticism is harsh in the extreme, he had no reaction time for that shot.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

Anyway - it all deflects away from how great Salah is 😁😁

I understand that Everton where financially hamstrung because of FFP and they couldn’t spent much so the question is wtf have they spent their money on ?! 

Where is the quality on the pitch for that level of money spent - there best player was a £1.5mil signing in Gray. 

Why is that Brands still being allowed to buy players when it appears that he is shocking


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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			I think Pickford's a good indicator of the mess the team is in. For such an experienced player where’s the leadership and command on the pitch? He makes some exceptional saves but that’s not the wider issue.

Loss of guaranteed possession from the back, both flailing balls up the pitch and strange choices in short balls. Goals from set pieces, the general defensive organisation and confusion. Bickering. These are all signs of something rotten in communication and strategy that he should (and can!) command. He’s not the only cause of it but for a player with his experience he’s complicit in the mess and I'd expect better.

He looks like a completely different person when in goal for England. It's frustrating to see.
		
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I certainly don't watch Pickford week in, week out, but he does seem to make some big mistakes / great saves. It would appear he makes more mistakes than others, although whether that is true, or they are just highlighted more as he is England's No 1, I'm not sure. I suspect one of the big things that works to his advantage is that when he makes a mistake, it doesn't appear to phase him. I've seen keepers in the past who make one big mistake, and their whole demeanour transforms. It is mentioned in the media, and their confidence seems to snowball downhill. It can pretty much plague their career if they are not careful. With Pickford, it just seems like he has pretty much forgotten about it 30 seconds later, and I guess that is a strength (although potentially a bit of a weakness if he forgets to learn from those mistakes?)


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## Orikoru (Dec 2, 2021)

I think Pickford is a very average keeper, but he does probably get too much scrutiny thanks to being England no. 1 for several years now. Ramsdale, I'll admit, I thought he was rubbish. For the last two years he suffered consecutive relegations, and the stats at the time showed that he barely made any saves. But fair play to him, he's come into a different environment, a bigger club, and I guess he's one of those keepers who looks better when he has less to do, as opposed to some other keepers who look better when they're busier. But he's only been in the side 3 months, it's not enough to be England no. 1 yet I don't think.

On paper I still think Henderson is potentially the best keeper, but while he's sitting on the bench at United, we're not going to see it.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Try being an Everton fan, injury excuses can only be used so much, the basic errors all over the field are shocking.

One thing I don’t want to see is Benitez getting the sack.
		
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Not before the 16th please.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Try being an Everton fan, injury excuses can only be used so much, the basic errors all over the field are shocking.

One thing I don’t want to see is Benitez getting the sack.
		
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Ha! Well I guess the cat's out the bag, I've tried being an Everton fan for over 40 years, hopefully I've got another 40 years being blue in me but I'm starting to wonder what the point of it all was. 

Agree on Rafa, if change is needed anywhere it's in the board.


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## Jensen (Dec 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Jota's goal didn't squeeze through a small gap at the near post. It was hit at close range, like a rocket, whistling past Pickford's ear, or was it giving him a centre parting? Singling that incident out for criticism is harsh in the extreme, he had no reaction time for that shot.
		
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I’m not anti Pickford, but no goalkeeper should get beat at his near post. His body was leaning to his left anticipating the ball going in that direction, meaning he was off balance and unable to react properly.
Ryan Giggs so called wonder goal against Arsenal in the FA Cup didn’t reflect well on David Seamen. Seamen’s body shape was all wrong, he was falling backwards and was hunched down as the ball went in at the roof of the net.
Seamen should have stood tall.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Ha! Well I guess the cat's out the bag, I've tried being an Everton fan for over 40 years, hopefully I've got another 40 years being blue in me but I'm starting to wonder what the point of it all was. 

Agree on Rafa, if change is needed anywhere it's in the board.
		
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Certainly very difficult at the moment, only positive from last night was I wasn’t there to witness it, unlike 1982 when I witnessed the 5-0 drubbing and Rush getting 4.


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## Orikoru (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’m not anti Pickford, but no goalkeeper should get beat at his near post. His body was leaning to his left anticipating the ball going in that direction, meaning he was off balance and unable to react properly.
Ryan Giggs so called wonder goal against Arsenal in the FA Cup didn’t reflect well on David Seamen. Seamen’s body shape was all wrong, he was falling backwards and was hunched down as the ball went in at the roof of the net.
Seamen should have stood tall.
		
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I don't think it's far to say they should _never_ be beaten at the near post. If someone hits it 100mph at the top corner it's always going to be tough to keep out, near post or not. It's not like they can just cover the near side and give the striker free reign to tap it inside the far post instead. They're hitting these balls pretty hard nowadays.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’m not anti Pickford, but no goalkeeper should get beat at his near post. His body was leaning to his left anticipating the ball going in that direction, meaning he was off balance and unable to react properly.
Ryan Giggs so called wonder goal against Arsenal in the FA Cup didn’t reflect well on David Seamen. Seamen’s body shape was all wrong, he was falling backwards and was hunched down as the ball went in at the roof of the net.
Seamen should have stood tall.
		
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Or maybe, just maybe we congratulate the goalscorer and accept every goalkeeper gets beat at sometime at his near post and it’s just not correct to say no goalkeeper should.

You could literally analyse every goal and suggest with hindsight how the keeper should or could of saved it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’m not anti Pickford, but no goalkeeper should get beat at his near post. His body was leaning to his left anticipating the ball going in that direction, meaning he was off balance and unable to react properly.
Ryan Giggs so called wonder goal against Arsenal in the FA Cup didn’t reflect well on David Seamen. Seamen’s body shape was all wrong, he was falling backwards and was hunched down as the ball went in at the roof of the net.
Seamen should have stood tall.
		
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I'm not sure anyone could react at that range and velocity. I know there is a big thing about near post and keepers but this wasn't past his, foot, ankle, thigh, waist. It went past his noggin . Even if stood against his post I'm not sure he stops it and even if he does it is because it hit him, not because he moved. Any reaction he made was after the ball was past him. You could well be right about his body lean but it is still a tough call.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			he had no reaction time for that shot.
		
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It was a great goal by Jota. But Pickford could have dealt with it better. He knows from that range that there is no reaction time, so why is he setting himself up in a position to react to the ball as if its 20 yards out instead of closing down the ability to shoot near post in the first place? Jota slotted the ball through the space Pickford gave him because his hands were completely inactive down by his legs. I know its nitpicking in the grand scheme of things but he can do better.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			It was a great goal by Jota. But Pickford could have dealt with it better. He knows from that range that there is no reaction time, so why is he setting himself up in a position to react to the ball as if its 20 yards out instead of closing down the ability to shoot near post in the first place? Jota slotted the ball through the space Pickford gave him because his hands were completely inactive down by his legs. I know its nitpicking in the grand scheme of things but he can do better.
		
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What if he shoots low and his hands are high? Most strikers don't go for the roof of the net in those circumstances, being 3-1 up gave Jota the luxury of that option.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’m not anti Pickford, but no goalkeeper should get beat at his near post. His body was leaning to his left anticipating the ball going in that direction, meaning he was off balance and unable to react properly.
Ryan Giggs so called wonder goal against Arsenal in the FA Cup didn’t reflect well on David Seamen. Seamen’s body shape was all wrong, he was falling backwards and was hunched down as the ball went in at the roof of the net.
Seamen should have stood tall.
		
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That is quite often a cliched view often thrown out by commentators / pundits, which often frustrates me. I agree, that generally a keeper will look to position themselves to make it very difficult to get beaten at near post. And, maybe Pickford made a mistake last night, though I've not seen it so don't know.

But, if you go back and look at the best goalkeepers now, and the best keepers of all time, I bet all of them have been beaten at their near post on several occasions. Sometimes it may be an error, sometimes the shot was simply so powerful and accurate, there'd have been little they could do differently. I mean, they could simply stand at their near post and make it virtually impossible, but then they'd be much less effective at reacting to a shot across goal. So, all very well saying no keeper should be beaten at their near post, yet the reality suggests every keeper has been beaten at their near post (caveat that by saying I have not reviewed the conceded goals of every single goalkeeper, so it is an assumption on my part)


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What if he shoots low and his hands are high? Most strikers don't go for the roof of the net in those circumstances, *being 3-1 up gave Jota the luxury of that option.*

Click to expand...

We'll never know but lets not dismiss how good Jota is. What a goal that was. The backheel and turn was top drawer that very few footballers can do. 

I think @Bazzatron thought Wolves done great business in getting £40m off liverpool for him. 

His goal return  to date, let alone his performances is proving we got the better deal.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Anyway - it all deflects away from how great Salah is 😁😁

I understand that Everton where financially hamstrung because of FFP and they couldn’t spent much so the question is wtf have they spent their money on ?!

Where is the quality on the pitch for that level of money spent - there best player was a £1.5mil signing in Gray.

Why is that Brands still being allowed to buy players when it appears that he is shocking
		
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I thought FFP was only applicable to European football? The blooooooooooos dont have to worry about that anytime soon🤣


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Certainly very difficult at the moment, only positive from last night was I wasn’t there to witness it, unlike 1982 when I witnessed the 5-0 drubbing and Rush getting 4.
		
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Was that when Keeley from The Rovers played his one and only game and was sent off?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Unfortunately others can’t think for themselves and join your bandwagon.

Click to expand...

😁😁

Leader not a follower 🤣🤣

A bit like the TAA cant defend myth?🤔🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We'll never know but lets not dismiss how good Jota is. What a goal that was. The backheel and turn was top drawer that very few footballers can do.

I think @Bazzatron thought Wolves done great business in getting £40m off liverpool for him.

His goal return  to date, let alone his performances is proving we got the better deal.
		
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I remember back to that summer and all the Teddy throwing because we didn’t buy Werner for the £60mil - instead buying Jota and Thiago - right now looking like that was the better choice


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I remember back to that summer and all the Teddy throwing because we didn’t buy Werner for the £60mil - instead buying Jota and Thiago - right now looking like that was the better choice
		
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Oh yeah, all those twitter freaks have been proved right🤷‍♂️


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## Jimaroid (Dec 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What if he shoots low and his hands are high? Most strikers don't go for the roof of the net in those circumstances, being 3-1 up gave Jota the luxury of that option.
		
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We could what-if all day long. I don't have any pets and I need to kick something, Pickford's just going to have to do.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We'll never know but lets not dismiss how good Jota is. What a goal that was. The backheel and turn was top drawer that very few footballers can do.

I think @Bazzatron thought Wolves done great business in getting £40m off liverpool for him.

His goal return  to date, let alone his performances is proving we got the better deal.
		
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He was excellent, the turn was superb. McCoist gave Allan some jip about that but I thought it was unfair. It was a great piece of skill, hats off to him. He is giving you Firminio plus goals and that makes you even more dangerous.


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## chrisd (Dec 2, 2021)

I see Elton John is playing at Vicarage Road - I've just placed a bet for him to win 3 - 0


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## BiMGuy (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’m not anti Pickford, but *no goalkeeper should get beat at his near post*. His body was leaning to his left anticipating the ball going in that direction, meaning he was off balance and unable to react properly.
Ryan Giggs so called wonder goal against Arsenal in the FA Cup didn’t reflect well on David Seamen. Seamen’s body shape was all wrong, he was falling backwards and was hunched down as the ball went in at the roof of the net.
Seamen should have stood tall.
		
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Absolute nonsense. 

I don’t know when this became a thing. But you often hear non goalkeeper pundits repeat it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2021)

One thing not really picked up, but how terrifying was it at corners last night ? Just put the ball on the edge of the 6yd box and mayhem happened. Something is not right to be that open over and over again.


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## Orikoru (Dec 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One thing not really picked up, but how terrifying was it at corners last night ? Just put the ball on the edge of the 6yd box and mayhem happened. Something is not right to be that open over and over again.
		
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Well, at least you have a manager who's known for defensive organisation.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Was that when Keeley from The Rovers played his one and only game and was sent off?
		
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Yep.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			😁😁

Leader not a follower 🤣🤣

A bit like the TAA cant defend myth?🤔🤷‍♂️
		
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Not me, TAA would be one of the first on the team sheet.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well, at least you have a manager who's known for defensive organisation. 

Click to expand...

We are not a small team either, not huge but not diddymen. There were big empty spaces on every corner that Liverpool players could just stroll into. They didn't even have to be clever about it. I can understand struggling to score but that side of things, under Benitez, should be locked up tight.


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## Jensen (Dec 2, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Absolute nonsense.

I don’t know when this became a thing. But you often hear non goalkeeper pundits repeat it.
		
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I was a goalkeeper and this was drilled into me at various coaching levels 👍
I’ve also heard various professional goalkeepers state they shouldn’t get beat at their near post


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## Orikoru (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I was a goalkeeper and this was drilled into me at various coaching levels 👍
I’ve also heard various professional goalkeepers state they shouldn’t get beat at their near post
		
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So if you concede 5 weak goals but they were all hit across you it's fine? I feel like this advice might be outdated and probably not applied anymore.


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## Hobbit (Dec 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Jota's goal didn't squeeze through a small gap at the near post. It was hit at close range, like a rocket, whistling past Pickford's ear, or was it giving him a centre parting? Singling that incident out for criticism is harsh in the extreme, he had no reaction time for that shot.
		
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It whistled past his ear because he was already half way down onto his left knee as he anticipated it going across him. Hit ferociously without a doubt, giving minimal reaction time, but not helped by Pickford moving early. YouTube it, it’s obvious.


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## Orikoru (Dec 2, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			It whistled past his ear because he was already half way down onto his left knee as he anticipated it going across him. Hit ferociously without a doubt, giving minimal reaction time, but not helped by Pickford moving early. YouTube it, it’s obvious.
		
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We could talk about this all day, but from that range it's almost like trying to save a penalty. Keepers will often guess and go early, that's what he's done here, because of the angle he assumes most players would hit across goal. But it was an extremely accurate finish to hit it inside the near post from where he was.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			It whistled past his ear because he was already half way down onto his left knee as he anticipated it going across him. Hit ferociously without a doubt, giving minimal reaction time, but not helped by Pickford moving early. YouTube it, it’s obvious.
		
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As Orikoru says, there has to be a degree of anticipation because he is too close for a realistic reaction to happen. He took a slight gamble and lost. It wasn't a major fault in my eyes.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			It whistled past his ear because he was already half way down onto his left knee as he anticipated it going across him. Hit ferociously without a doubt, giving minimal reaction time, but not helped by Pickford moving early. YouTube it, it’s obvious.
		
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Just watched it. Sure, had he stayed on his feet and tall, probably would have saved it. But is it a huge error? Not so sure about that. Jota absolutely rifled it from close range. I doubt any keeper would assume they could react after ball has been hit, so he'd made decision it'll go across him, and he was wrong. It is also probably quite a narrow window for Jota to smash it into, which he did brilliantly. It doesn't escape me that both Salah's goals were scored by hitting the ball across him, so maybe he was even more determined to stop Jota repeating that? (Edit: just read Orikoru's post 19098, mind readers)

Some much more worrying errors in that game, such as Salah getting through for that 3rd goal.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I was a goalkeeper and this was drilled into me at various coaching levels 👍
I’ve also heard various professional goalkeepers state they shouldn’t get beat at their near post
		
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Same here. But, like many things it is now considered out of date thinking.


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## Hobbit (Dec 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As Orikoru says, there has to be a degree of anticipation because he is too close for a realistic reaction to happen. He took a slight gamble and lost. It wasn't a major fault in my eyes.
		
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We’re splitting hairs and playing with semantics. How often do we hear a commentator say, “well played the keeper for staying tall.” And, “the keeper made it easy by going early.” The second one isn’t relevant as Jota had no other thought than putting his foot through it. Would it have been saved if Pickford hadn’t gone early? We’ll never know.

 We could argue the toss till the cows come home. You believe one thing, quite rightly, and I another, quite rightly.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Was that when Keeley from The Rovers played his one and only game and was sent off?
		
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Yes, my very first derby - 5-0 at Goodison - what a start.

Even better, me and my dad were in with the blues in the lower Bullens, although many reds around, as was the norm at both derbies then - We'd have about 6-7k in the park end, and another 10k all around the ground.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’m not anti Pickford, but no goalkeeper should get beat at his near post. His body was leaning to his left anticipating the ball going in that direction, meaning he was off balance and unable to react properly.
Ryan Giggs so called wonder goal against Arsenal in the FA Cup didn’t reflect well on David Seamen. Seamen’s body shape was all wrong, he was falling backwards and was hunched down as the ball went in at the roof of the net.
Seamen should have stood tall.
		
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Was Seaman's shape or position really that bad, as shown below? Yes, he was low, but only because he was preparing to spring into action. And, also got to bare in mind that Giggs was running from outside the box, so the keeper was trying to also narrow the angles, in case Giggs got the shot away earlier. He was 100% not off balance as Giggs struck the ball, and he 100% was not falling backwards when Giggs struck it. However, about 0.01 seconds later, the ball was flying into the roof of the nett, and Seaman only fell backwards as he attempted in vain to throw his hand in the air, and was pretty much only falling backwards as the ball passed him and went into the nett.

He could have just stood tall and might have saved the shot. But, had the shot flown across him, he'd have been criticised for not setting himself.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1464590166681694215
🤦‍♂️😂


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## Jensen (Dec 2, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Was Seaman's shape or position really that bad, as shown below? Yes, he was low, but only because he was preparing to spring into action. And, also got to bare in mind that Giggs was running from outside the box, so the keeper was trying to also narrow the angles, in case Giggs got the shot away earlier. He was 100% not off balance as Giggs struck the ball, and he 100% was not falling backwards when Giggs struck it. However, about 0.01 seconds later, the ball was flying into the roof of the nett, and Seaman only fell backwards as he attempted in vain to throw his hand in the air, and was pretty much only falling backwards as the ball passed him and went into the nett.

He could have just stood tall and might have saved the shot. But, had the shot flown across him, he'd have been criticised for not setting himself.

View attachment 39761

Click to expand...

Absolutely, yes. His weight is well back on his heels as he’s already falling back. He practically looks like he’s sitting on the toilet.
Narrowing the angle is fine, but he’s squatting far too low. He should be standing taller with his weight on the balls of his feet so he can spring into action.
Even before Giggs hits the ball, he’s already falling backwards. Note his spine angle.


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## Bazzatron (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We'll never know but lets not dismiss how good Jota is. What a goal that was. The backheel and turn was top drawer that very few footballers can do.

I think @Bazzatron thought Wolves done great business in getting £40m off liverpool for him.

His goal return  to date, let alone his performances is proving we got the better deal.
		
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100% proved me wrong, I was probably so bitter about someone daring to think they could do better than us I couldn't see it. Good luck to that lad, just not on Saturday.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Absolutely, yes. His weight is well back on his heels as he’s already falling back. He practically looks like he’s sitting on the toilet.
Narrowing the angle is fine, but he’s squatting far too low. He should be standing taller with his weight on the balls of his feet so he can spring into action.
Even before Giggs hits the ball, he’s already falling backwards. Note his spine angle.
		
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I'll respectively disagree


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			100% proved me wrong, *I was probably so bitter about someone daring to think they could do better than us I couldn't see it.* Good luck to that lad, just not on Saturday.
		
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😁😁 We're all the same.

In fairness i dont think anyone expected Jota to improve as much has he has done.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Absolutely, yes. His weight is well back on his heels as he’s already falling back. He practically looks like he’s sitting on the toilet.
Narrowing the angle is fine, but he’s squatting far too low. He should be standing taller with his weight on the balls of his feet so he can spring into action.
Even before Giggs hits the ball, he’s already falling backwards. Note his spine angle.
		
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As an ex-keeper I disagree and think Swango has it right. I has always been something that was drilled into the keepers at every level I played but the harsh reality is it happens. Whether you put it down to keeper error or a good finish is the point of contention and the outfield players will inevitable blame the keeper where the fault may actually lie with their actions in the build up. Either way your side is a goal down


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## Bazzatron (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			😁😁 We're all the same.

In fairness i dont think anyone expected Jota to improve as much has he has done.
		
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Wouldn't be surprised if you're back for Adama in January.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 2, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Wouldn't be surprised if you're back for Adama in January.
		
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what’s the odds Jota and Adama have had one or two phone calls 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Wouldn't be surprised if you're back for Adama in January.
		
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Can’t see it tbh

Only way we will be buying is if a player is leaving


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

Is a night without that damn squirrell too much to ask for? looking at the teamsheets I worry so.


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

erm thats a goal, not Arsenals fault Freds done DDG lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

That’s got to be a goal hasn’t it 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2021)

Popcorn.......


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s got to be a goal hasn’t it 🤷‍♂️
		
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anywhere but OT lol


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## paddyc (Dec 2, 2021)

THATS GOT TO BE A GOAL!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

That’s the right call - fair play to the officials


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## paddyc (Dec 2, 2021)

Why are the Man u players complaining no foul no offside


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 2, 2021)

Correct decision reached. The ref hadn't blown the whistle before the ball was in so there's no choice but to give the goal.


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## BrianM (Dec 2, 2021)

Fred 😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Or maybe, just maybe we congratulate the goalscorer and accept every goalkeeper gets beat at sometime at his near post and it’s just not correct to say no goalkeeper should.

You could literally analyse every goal and suggest with hindsight how the keeper should or could of saved it.
		
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This I think he’s anticipated the square ball / cross.
But the finish was just  to good ,I don’t think most keepers would save that.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

Goal, yes. But, had play gone one a bit, and ref had seen keeper lying injured on ground, play would have been stopped. Regardless of how he got injured. Ref was not quick enough to spot it, although bizarrely looked to blow his whistle, then didn't


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2021)

I'm not understanding the commentary team comments about the goal, should arsenal do anything etc. It wasn't a head injury, Arsenal did nothing wrong. Get on with it.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 2, 2021)

Goal,no complaints or popcorn needed.
Fred’s up for this lol
And how does Maguire start


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## Junior (Dec 2, 2021)

Goal.  Arsenal did nothing wrong.  Difficult in real time but should the ref have blown ?


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## RichA (Dec 2, 2021)

If somebody stood on my toe on the golf course, I would not be hitting the ground like that. He deserved to lose a goal for being melodramatic.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

Junior said:



			Goal.  Arsenal did nothing wrong.  Difficult in real time but should the ref have blown ?
		
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i thought the officials should only blow for injured players if it’s a head injury and play continues for any other injury - but if the ref blew before Smith Rowe hit the ball then I don’t think  anyone would have complained


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i thought the officials should only blow for injured players if it’s a head injury and play continues for any other injury - but if the ref blew before Smith Rowe hit the ball then I don’t think  anyone would have complained
		
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you wanna bet we would! utterly no reason to blow whatsoever


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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i thought the officials should only blow for injured players if it’s a head injury and play continues for any other injury - but if the ref blew before Smith Rowe hit the ball then I don’t think  anyone would have complained
		
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I'm sure there is an exception for a keeper. Unless you can find me a clip where a referee has deliberately waved play on when a keeper has been lying on the ground injured


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## paddyc (Dec 2, 2021)

De Gea did not have a leg to stand on


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, my very first derby - 5-0 at Goodison - what a start.

Even better, me and my dad were in with the blues in the lower Bullens, although many reds around, as was the norm at both derbies then - We'd have about 6-7k in the park end, and another 10k all around the ground.
		
Click to expand...

Yes my brother was a STH at Everton .
He was in hospital and gave his ticket to me.
I was stuck in the Gladys ST end surrounded by blues.
Couldn’t even celebrate the goals just sat motionless.
Great memories.

Edit can’t even remember if I was seated or standing.
Did they have seats then ?
Fs my memory is going.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm sure there is an exception for a keeper. Unless you can find me a clip where a referee has deliberately waved play on when a keeper has been lying on the ground injured
		
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If there is an exception in the rules 

I’m sure you will be able to find it 

And wouldn’t VAR then overrule the goal because the ref got the rules wrong


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm sure there is an exception for a keeper. Unless you can find me a clip where a referee has deliberately waved play on when a keeper has been lying on the ground injured
		
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I'm not sure there is except for head injury. I don't think the ref played on in this instance but was too slow to react before the shot was taken and the goal scored. Arsenal playing well


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## paddyc (Dec 2, 2021)

Thomas Partey continuing his awful  form...


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Wouldn't be surprised if you're back for Adama in January.
		
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I dont see it. His end product isnt good enough for me.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont see it. His end product isnt good enough for me.
		
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Agree he’s a chicken with no head.
Final ball is just not good enough.
But if he sorted that out different story.


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Thomas Partey continuing his awful  form...
		
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i just dont get this view, half fit and expected to hold midfield single handedly almost every game

if wed bought a proper 6 in the summer rather than giving the clown a new contract...........


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont see it. His end product isnt good enough for me.
		
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He'd be perfect for you guys then. Another one season wonder like that guy Salah you signed a couple of seasons ago. Had one good season and then disappeared. Whatever happened to him?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes my brother was a STH at Everton .
He was in hospital and gave his ticket to me.
I was stuck in the Gladys ST end surrounded by blues.
Couldn’t even celebrate the goals just sat motionless.
Great memories.

Edit can’t even remember if I was seated or standing.
Did they have seats then ?
Fs my memory is going.
		
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No was still terracing, probably for another 10 years after that, as well, if not 12 or more.

I'm not sure if that was the same derby that some blues come out of the gwladys street and presented Grobelaar with a clowns head - all in good spirits.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			He'd be perfect for you guys then. Another one season wonder like that guy Salah you signed a couple of seasons ago. Had one good season and then disappeared. Whatever happened to him? 

Click to expand...

Dunno, ask Pokerjoke.


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

Maguire just allowed to do what he wants then VAR?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			He'd be perfect for you guys then. Another one season wonder like that guy Salah you signed a couple of seasons ago. Had one good season and then disappeared. Whatever happened to him? 

Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Maguire just allowed to do what he wants then VAR?
		
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And people still think hes a top defender. 

His positional sense is shocking.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If there is an exception in the rules

I’m sure you will be able to find it

And wouldn’t VAR then overrule the goal because the ref got the rules wrong
		
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I genuinely do not know, I have just never seen a referee allow a game to continue if they spot a goalkeeper injured on the ground. 

However, I suspect if there is anything, it is purely down to the discretion of the ref. So, as he didn't whistle, there was no rule to say the goal should be disallowed.

It looked like he was about to blow, then stopped himself as he saw ball going towards goal. I wonder if he instinctively felt he better not be hasty, let the ball go in, then VAR can sort it. Of course, once he did, VAR could do nothing.

If ball had rebounded off post, I wouldn't be surprised if he stopped play then


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## paddyc (Dec 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			Maguire just allowed to do what he wants then VAR?
		
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If that was the other way round at old Trafford...you just know!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No was still terracing, probably for another 10 years after that, as well, if not 12 or more.

I'm not sure if that was the same derby that some blues come out of the gwladys street and presented Grobelaar with a clowns head - all in good spirits.
		
Click to expand...

Yes senior moment Pete.
I do remember a very big guy in a sheepskin coat giving me the look.
I was giving it the “get in there” under my breath.


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## Slime (Dec 2, 2021)

De Gea ....................... that was embarrassing, you're better than that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I genuinely do not know, I have just never seen a referee allow a game to continue if they spot a goalkeeper injured on the ground.

However, I suspect if there is anything, it is purely down to the discretion of the ref. So, as he didn't whistle, there was no rule to say the goal should be disallowed.

It looked like he was about to blow, then stopped himself as he saw ball going towards goal. I wonder if he instinctively felt he better not be hasty, let the ball go in, then VAR can sort it. Of course, once he did, VAR could do nothing.

If ball had rebounded off post, I wouldn't be surprised if he stopped play then
		
Click to expand...

So it’s a goal then by the rules - there was no need for him to blow the whistle and if the infringement was made by Arsenal player then it would be disallowed 

Maybe it’s good refereeing


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No was still terracing, probably for another 10 years after that, as well, if not 12 or more.

I'm not sure if that was the same derby that some blues come out of the gwladys street and presented Grobelaar with a clowns head - all in good spirits.
		
Click to expand...

I do remember them singing “The Rhodesian army is S…….g your missus.”


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it’s a goal then by the rules - there was no need for him to blow the whistle and if the infringement was made by Arsenal player then it would be disallowed

*Maybe it’s good refereeing*

Click to expand...

Steady on Phil. I'm not sure that it's good refereeing, more that the ref was too slow to react to the situation. I'm convinced that if the ref had seen De Gea down he would've blown the whistle and (wrongly) stopped the game. I think that the ref has achieved the correct decision but only through the fact that he was too slow to stop the game.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			De Gea ....................... that was embarrassing, you're better than that.
		
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Totally agree,unless your ankle is broken,play on.
Too much of it goes on


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Steady on Phil. I'm not sure that it's good refereeing, more that the ref was too slow to react to the situation. I'm convinced that if the ref had seen De Gea down he would've blown the whistle and (wrongly) stopped the game. I think that the ref has achieved the correct decision but only through the fact that he was too slow to stop the game.
		
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But he did see he was down - the angle showed him looking at the gk and let play carry on 🤷‍♂️


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## Bazzatron (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont see it. His end product isnt good enough for me.
		
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If he'd already sorted his end product he wouldn't be with us. Given a run in a better side he'd be a different player, I'm certain of it. There's a player in there.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont see it. His end product isnt good enough for me.
		
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I think he’d be brilliant at Liverpool


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## Slime (Dec 2, 2021)

800


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## pokerjoke (Dec 2, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			He'd be perfect for you guys then. Another one season wonder like that guy Salah you signed a couple of seasons ago. Had one good season and then disappeared. Whatever happened to him? 

Click to expand...

A couple seasons ago?lol
Yes and one of them he was good 
Hence one season wonder.
He could be on 2 soon


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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it’s a goal then by the rules - there was no need for him to blow the whistle and if the infringement was made by Arsenal player then it would be disallowed

Maybe it’s good refereeing
		
Click to expand...

The injury is almost irrelevant. Had DeGea accidentally snapped his Achilles the ref would still have had literally no idea the nature of the injury at that point. He still would not have blown the whistle, and the goal would have to be given.

So, it is not that the ref made the correct decision by not blowing, as said he was simply too slow to react (and I dont really blame him, he had only just seen the keeper). He'd almost certainly stopped game had it gone on a little longer 

Amazon Prime is absolutely horrific tonight btw


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## pokerjoke (Dec 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			800

View attachment 39773

Click to expand...


Yes but is he any good for Utd
He’s only got two seasons in him
He’s effecting others though


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## paddyc (Dec 2, 2021)

Get in come on you gooners super goal


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

Slime said:



			800

View attachment 39773

Click to expand...


has the Goat eaten the squirrell?????


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## Slime (Dec 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			has the Goat eaten the squirrell????? 

Click to expand...

We'll see.


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## Slime (Dec 2, 2021)




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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

Interesting the ref didn't see that as a penalty live. I wonder if he genuinely didn't see it, or they just bottle it now and let VAR bail them out if need be?


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## Billysboots (Dec 2, 2021)

That is shocking refereeing from Atkinson. Ten yards away, unobstructed view and he cannot see that’s a penalty? Awful.


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 2, 2021)

OK. Just before half time why when McGuire was tugging the Arsenal player in the box why it was not a penalty? Some of you guys are better at the rules than I


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## BrianM (Dec 2, 2021)

Ref should of given that before VAR surely?


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## Slime (Dec 2, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



*Yes but is he any good for Utd*
He’s only got two seasons in him
He’s effecting others though 

Click to expand...

You work it out.


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			OK. Just before half time why when McGuire was tugging the Arsenal player in the box why it was not a penalty? Some of you guys are better at the rules than I
		
Click to expand...

wrong end of the pitch


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## BrianM (Dec 2, 2021)

Ronaldo’s stats are absolutely frightening, just hearing the commentators saying about his goals.


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			wrong end of the pitch
		
Click to expand...

Well when I used to go to football it WAS a penalty. more important I got my BT Sub today for the Ashes. Thank you sir for tour  help


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## Billysboots (Dec 2, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			OK. Just before half time why when McGuire was tugging the Arsenal player in the box why it was not a penalty? Some of you guys are better at the rules than I
		
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Officials have never got to grips with shirt pulling. Some give them, some don’t.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			OK. Just before half time why when McGuire was tugging the Arsenal player in the box why it was not a penalty? Some of you guys are better at the rules than I
		
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Because it wasn’t for Utd at Old Trafford 😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			OK. Just before half time why when McGuire was tugging the Arsenal player in the box why it was not a penalty? Some of you guys are better at the rules than I
		
Click to expand...

Same ref doing VAR that didn't see Rondon getting his shirt pulled off against Brentford? 😡.

No idea is the answer. I'd have given it, makes no sense why it wasn't given.


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Well when I used to go to football it WAS a penalty. more important I got my BT Sub today for the Ashes. Thank you sir for tour  help
		
Click to expand...


glad youre sorted


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Officials have never got to grips with shirt pulling. Some give them, some don’t.
		
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It wasn’t his shirt he pulled

https://wittyfutty.com/2021/12/video-maguire-gets-away-with-a-controversial-pull-on-tomiyasu/?amp


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466526170153893892


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Officials have never got to grips with shirt pulling. Some give them, some don’t.
		
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really?


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## paddyc (Dec 2, 2021)

Auba disappointing again!


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Auba disappointing again!
		
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been horrific for a while, how Laca isnt starting up top especially in this sort of game is staggering


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## Billysboots (Dec 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It wasn’t his shirt he pulled

https://wittyfutty.com/2021/12/video-maguire-gets-away-with-a-controversial-pull-on-tomiyasu/?amp


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466526170153893892

Click to expand...

My mistake. Didn’t really see it as I was topping up my sloe gin 😎


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			My mistake. Didn’t really see it as I was topping up my sloe gin 😎
		
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washing down the prawn sandwich


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## Billysboots (Dec 2, 2021)

fundy said:



			washing down the prawn sandwich 

Click to expand...

Cheeky 😳


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

Game of 2 penalty decisions  well done United

Same old story for us, plenty of good from the youngsters, plenty of bad from the older players, still a lot of deadwood that needs clearing out. Far too many errors, not good enough through the middle  of the pitch yet again. Still beggars belief that we didnt address the biggest issues in the summer (again), no doubt we panic buy in January


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## davie24 (Dec 2, 2021)

Breaking news  Michael Carrick has announced his departure from Manchester United.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2021)

davie24 said:



			Breaking news  Michael Carrick has announced his departure from Manchester United.
		
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Really liked his interview after the game. Fair play to him.


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## Billysboots (Dec 2, 2021)

davie24 said:



			Breaking news  Michael Carrick has announced his departure from Manchester United.
		
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Sorry to see him go, but it’s not unexpected. I’d love to see someone of his calibre and calmness in United’s midfield these days, putting his foot on the ball and picking a pass. We’ve never really replaced him in that respect.


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## Swingalot (Dec 2, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			What did I say that wasn’t true? And I wasn’t the only one to say it!

As a fan are you happy that your team was wasting time from early in the second half when the score was 0-0? I wouldn’t be is that was my team.
		
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We slowed the game down when Leeds were in the ascendancy,  its what almost every football team does in the same situation. If we were playing for a draw, then explain why after the period in question we were then the better side for a good 20 minutes, put on attacking players from the bench and if it was not for Benteke having a 50p for a head we would have taken the lead with one of this chances.


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## fundy (Dec 2, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			We slowed the game down when Leeds were in the ascendancy,  its what almost every football team does in the same situation. If we were playing for a draw, then explain why after the period in question we were then the better side for a good 20 minutes, put on attacking players from the bench and if it was not for Benteke having a 50p for a head we would have taken the lead with one of this chances.
		
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haha love the Benteke description


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## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2021)

Serious question re stopping the Game when players are down.
Is there a difference between a keeper going down and outfield players going down. Last nights game, an Arsenal player went down with a knock on the head. Play resumed. I said exactly the same on here the night before during the City game. A Villa player went off, am sure there was a concussion sub used. But again play went on for a minute or so. last night De Gea went down and there is suggestions play should of stopped. Irrespective of thoughts that it’s a goal or not. Am not on about last night but bottom line are goal keepers over protected.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Sorry to see him go, but it’s not unexpected. I’d love to see someone of his calibre and calmness in United’s midfield these days, putting his foot on the ball and picking a pass. We’ve never really replaced him in that respect.
		
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He was part of OGS mess, he should've went then with the rest of them imo.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			haha love the Benteke description
		
Click to expand...

100% accurate too🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Serious question re stopping the Game when players are down.
Is there a difference between a keeper going down and outfield players going down. Last nights game, an Arsenal player went down with a knock on the head. Play resumed. I said exactly the same on here the night before during the City game. A Villa player went off, am sure there was a concussion sub used. But again play went on for a minute or so. last night De Gea went down and there is suggestions play should of stopped. Irrespective of thoughts that it’s a goal or not. Am not on about last night but bottom line are goal keepers over protected.
		
Click to expand...

I had a read of the rules regarding injuries, and I suspect not. The only difference with a keeper and an outfield player being injured is that a keeper does not have to leave the pitch when play resumes (obviously). But, I couldn't actually see anything about play having to be stopped if a keeper is injured. The rules simply say that if a player is slightly injured, the ref can play on (any player, does not exempt keeper).

It is an interesting one, unless I am missing something in the rules. In all the years I've watched football, I've never seen a ref allow play to continue if the keeper is lying on the floor injured. So, not sure if it is just an unwritten rule that a ref would stop game? If this incident highlights the issue, it would be interesting if a keeper goes down in future. Will ref stop game? If not, will opposition try and take advantage?

What irked a little about last night were the Arsenal celebrations afterwards. I am not critical about the goal, they were not aware of DeGea's situation anyway when the shot was struck. However, I'd have liked to have seen a bit of a respectful, muteful celebration. A bit like a snooker player tapping the table, or a tennis player tapping the net. Maybe most teams would act the same way, maybe it is the nature of footballers in general. But it just didn't sit right with me.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Serious question re stopping the Game when players are down.
Is there a difference between a keeper going down and outfield players going down. Last nights game, an Arsenal player went down with a knock on the head. Play resumed. I said exactly the same on here the night before during the City game. A Villa player went off, am sure there was a concussion sub used. But again play went on for a minute or so. last night De Gea went down and there is suggestions play should of stopped. Irrespective of thoughts that it’s a goal or not. Am not on about last night but bottom line are goal keepers over protected.
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was all pretty clear. Any head injury, the game stops. Any slight doubt a concussion sub comes on, still woefully underused.

Any other injury, up to the ref to decide whether it is serious enough to warrant a forced stop in play or whether it can wait until a natural stop in play.

Keepers are over protected on the whole but I do understand why, they are the only people on the pitch who can handle the ball. Saying that, if the ref had blown last night it would have been criminal, no Arsenal player was involved in putting De Gea down.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He was part of OGS mess, he should've went then with the rest of them imo.
		
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There were a lot of people that were part of the OGS mess. No idea what the club planned once Rangnick came in, but they needed someone to take charge until that point. Had they got rid of Carrick, it would have to be someone else who was part of the mess. If we got rid of them all, then a player would need to take charge, Woodward, kit man? No reason why Carrick should not take charge for a few games, he was at least familiar and had a relationship with the players. We also have no idea what his thoughts and ideas were on football. Ultimately OGS was in charge, not Carrick. Maybe Carrick 100% backed his ideas, maybe they disagreed about certain things. But OGS made the final decisions and Carrick can't exactly come out in the press, or even come out to the players, to say he disagrees with OGS.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 3, 2021)

How do you know when United or Liverpool have played a game?

The Footie thread is 6 pages bigger than when I left it yesterday!!!!!


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## Bdill93 (Dec 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought it was all pretty clear. Any head injury, the game stops. Any slight doubt a concussion sub comes on, still woefully underused.

Any other injury, up to the ref to decide whether it is serious enough to warrant a forced stop in play or whether it can wait until a natural stop in play.

Keepers are over protected on the whole but I do understand why, they are the only people on the pitch who can handle the ball. *Saying that, if the ref had blown last night it would have been criminal, no Arsenal player was involved in putting De Gea down*.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. 

Otherwise - I know how I'd get my team to defend corners in the future - just take out our own keeper!


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## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought it was all pretty clear. Any head injury, the game stops. Any slight doubt a concussion sub comes on, still woefully underused.

Any other injury, up to the ref to decide whether it is serious enough to warrant a forced stop in play or whether it can wait until a natural stop in play.

Keepers are over protected on the whole but I do understand why, they are the only people on the pitch who can handle the ball. Saying that, if the ref had blown last night it would have been criminal, no Arsenal player was involved in putting De Gea down.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, although it would have been interesting to know what people would have felt if the ball had come off the post. Keeper lying on the ground, completely out of the game. If the ref had just let play continue, hectic play continued in and out of the box, Utd never had a chance to kick ball out, and then Arsenal scored, how would fans see that? I appreciate I'm a Utd fan, so I can only say I'd be annoyed if that happened in last nights match. But, I could see why a Liverpool fan might be irked if the same happened with Allison, a Chelsea fan if Mendy was injured on the floor.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I agree, although it would have been interesting to know what people would have felt if the ball had come off the post. Keeper lying on the ground, completely out of the game. If the ref had just let play continue, hectic play continued in and out of the box, Utd never had a chance to kick ball out, and then Arsenal scored, how would fans see that? I appreciate I'm a Utd fan, so I can only say I'd be annoyed if that happened in last nights match. But, I could see why a Liverpool fan might be irked if the same happened with Allison, a Chelsea fan if Mendy was injured on the floor.
		
Click to expand...

I agree.

There are rules and there is etiquette (even still in footy now and again), the only thing I would put in Arsenal's favour was that it was his own player that injured him.


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## louise_a (Dec 3, 2021)

I have just watched the goal, it all happened in a couple of seconds, there was really no time for Arsenal to stop play. the guy who played the ball when it came out probably couldn't even see the keeper was injured and Smith Rowe is a teenager who acted on instinct.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2021)

louise_a said:



			I have just watched the goal, it all happened in a couple of seconds, there was really no time for Arsenal to stop play. the guy who played the ball when it came out probably couldn't even see the keeper was injured and Smith Rowe is a teenager who acted on instinct.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I doubt anyone has been critical for Arsenal playing on. Just a strange incident we don't see too often.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 3, 2021)

Big game for the Villains on Sunday.

I think Leicester are beatable, especially if we play like we did in the second half against city. Vardy does like to score against us though.

Im going with 2-1 to the Villa this time. 9 points from 12 for Gerrard would be a really solid start.

Up the Villa

P.S Come on Burnley!


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## Billysboots (Dec 3, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			He was part of OGS mess, he should've went then with the rest of them imo.
		
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Not sure we’ll ever know who was responsible for what during Solskjaer’s tenure. Carrick may well turn out to be a good coach.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Not sure we’ll ever know who was responsible for what during Solskjaer’s tenure. Carrick may well turn out to be a good coach.
		
Click to expand...

Is Mike Phelan still not on the team? He was there during Fergie's time. Was he good then and bad now or good then, good now but the team as a whole is out of his remit?

As you say, it is hard to know from the outside which coaches are good and which are not. Ultimately, the manager / head coach is responsible.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Not sure we’ll ever know who was responsible for what during Solskjaer’s tenure. Carrick may well turn out to be a good coach.
		
Click to expand...

Although part of the OGS team, has Carrick now made OGS unemployable as a manager now after his 3 games in charge?


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## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is Mike Phelan still not on the team? He was there during Fergie's time. Was he good then and bad now or good then, good now but the team as a whole is out of his remit?

As you say, it is hard to know from the outside which coaches are good and which are not. Ultimately, the manager / head coach is responsible.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but the team aspect is important. The manager makes the final calls, he is the main guy people look out to, and it is up to him to get the best out of his team. I'm sure he had a very productive relationship with Phelan and most of the rest of his staff, to get the best out of players and all other staff. I'm sure Phelan is good at what he does, and Fergie used him well. It is probably simply a case that Ole did not. I'm sure Phelan did not make the calls when Ole was in charge, and I'm sure he didn't when Fergie was in charge.


Bunkermagnet said:



			Although part of the OGS team, has Carrick now made OGS unemployable as a manager now after his 3 games in charge?
		
Click to expand...

I doubt anyone can read too much into 3 games of football. The results could be largely due to the players subconsciously raising their game to show extra determination after Ole was removed. Mind you, I think Ole will struggle to get a job anyway, at least a big one. His positives were he was a nice guy, and he also had Man Utd running through his blood (which is only a positive if the club is Man Utd). I doubt many teams look for that in a manager, they are more interested in a manager that plays in a certain way. Whether it be attacking, defensive, long ball, etc to suit their particular club. I'm not sure any club really knows what style Ole would bring to the table, and he also doesn't seem to be the type to give players a kick up the backside if the results need changing quickly. I know Utd went on a good run when he started, but in hindsight I think that was largely down to a weight being lifted off their shoulders when Mourinho left, rather than a brilliant tactical change.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, but the team aspect is important. The manager makes the final calls, he is the main guy people look out to, and it is up to him to get the best out of his team. I'm sure he had a very productive relationship with Phelan and most of the rest of his staff, to get the best out of players and all other staff. I'm sure Phelan is good at what he does, and Fergie used him well. It is probably simply a case that Ole did not. I'm sure Phelan did not make the calls when Ole was in charge, and I'm sure he didn't when Fergie was in charge.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I should have added more to my post. The reality is that I am pretty sure that Phelan is a top coach. He would not have survived that era by being average. The point made earlier, not by you, about clearing all of the coaching staff ignores the influence each coach has. It is up to the new manager to work out which coaches are worth keeping, which are not.

The direction, style, everything is dictated by the manager. I agree with what you put


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## Billysboots (Dec 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is Mike Phelan still not on the team? He was there during Fergie's time. Was he good then and bad now or good then, good now but the team as a whole is out of his remit?

As you say, it is hard to know from the outside which coaches are good and which are not. Ultimately, the manager / head coach is responsible.
		
Click to expand...

Roy Keane, I think it was, raised questions a few weeks ago regarding just what Mike Phelan’s role is. I’m not sure anyone knows.


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## Hobbit (Dec 3, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Or are these incidents happening to recovered Covid sufferers? There’s even been at least 3 professional footballers in the last 6 months…
		
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Blue in Munich said:



			That was my point, it should be picked up given the facilities available.
		
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English speaking newspaper here in southern Spain running an article on the number of footballers that have suffered heart problems this year, asking the question is it Covid related.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Roy Keane, I think it was, raised questions a few weeks ago regarding just what Mike Phelan’s role is. I’m not sure anyone knows.
		
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Given a decent contract extension not that long ago, October according to reports, so he must be around for something.


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Not sure we’ll ever know who was responsible for what during Solskjaer’s tenure. Carrick may well turn out to be a good coach.
		
Click to expand...

He may well turn out to be a good coach but from his body language, demure and how he seems to come across he does not seem to have the required motivational skills.

I have however no dislike for dislike for Carrick


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## fundy (Dec 3, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Given a decent contract extension not that long ago, October according to reports, so he must be around for something.
		
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werent all of the backroom staff under Ole given the same 3 yr extensions?


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## Billysboots (Dec 3, 2021)

fundy said:



			werent all of the backroom staff under Ole given the same 3 yr extensions?
		
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A great example of the ineptitude of those upstairs. Along with the likes of Phil Jones and other deadwood, whose contracts are renewed at great expense, presumably so the club can try and command a fee, rather than letting them go for nothing. The trouble is, we don’t play them and nobody else wants them.

Only one loser in that scenario and it’s been going on for years.


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## 4LEX (Dec 3, 2021)

De Gea faked the injury and thought the game would be stopped as it usually is for a keeper injury. It was tactical gamesmanship and he got caught out.

The ref would 100% have blown if he had a few more seconds to process it, he was caught out too. The right outcome prevailed.


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## 4LEX (Dec 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			A great example of the ineptitude of those upstairs. Along with the likes of Phil Jones and other deadwood, whose contracts are renewed at great expense, presumably so the club can try and command a fee, rather than letting them go for nothing. The trouble is, we don’t play them and nobody else wants them.

Only one loser in that scenario and it’s been going on for years.
		
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Phil Jones can't be worse than Maguire on this season surely


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## Billysboots (Dec 3, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Phil Jones can't be worse than Maguire on this season surely 

Click to expand...

Oh, I think he can!


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## fundy (Dec 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			A great example of the ineptitude of those upstairs. Along with the likes of Phil Jones and other deadwood, whose contracts are renewed at great expense, presumably so the club can try and command a fee, rather than letting them go for nothing. The trouble is, we don’t play them and nobody else wants them.

Only one loser in that scenario and it’s been going on for years.
		
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I kind of recognise it from a far, same boat for us for many years

Like last night, contract talks failed so lets bring Nketiah on at OT to put him in the shop window for January lol whilst conitnuing to keep Balogun away from the side as hes signed his contract


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## 4LEX (Dec 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Oh, I think he can!
		
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Phil Jones and Maguire at the back would be quite somemthing, haha.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Serious question re stopping the Game when players are down.
Is there a difference between a keeper going down and outfield players going down. Last nights game, an Arsenal player went down with a knock on the head. Play resumed. I said exactly the same on here the night before during the City game. A Villa player went off, am sure there was a concussion sub used. But again play went on for a minute or so. last night De Gea went down and there is suggestions play should of stopped. Irrespective of thoughts that it’s a goal or not. Am not on about last night but bottom line are goal keepers over protected.
		
Click to expand...

I saw one a few weeks ago the keeper came out of his box to clear the ball and hurt himself.
The ref played on and the opponent scored after a short period 30 seconds approx.
The ref told us if he’s out of the box he’s just another player.
If he had been in his 18 yard box he would stop the game.
Bizzare.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I agree, although it would have been interesting to know what people would have felt if the ball had come off the post. Keeper lying on the ground, completely out of the game. If the ref had just let play continue, hectic play continued in and out of the box, Utd never had a chance to kick ball out, and then Arsenal scored, how would fans see that? I appreciate I'm a Utd fan, so I can only say I'd be annoyed if that happened in last nights match. But, I could see why a Liverpool fan might be irked if the same happened with Allison, a Chelsea fan if Mendy was injured on the floor.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree.
But footballers are taught to put the ball in the net then ask questions later.
Then it’s up to the ref.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Big game for the Villains on Sunday.

I think Leicester are beatable, especially if we play like we did in the second half against city. Vardy does like to score against us though.

Im going with 2-1 to the Villa this time. 9 points from 12 for Gerrard would be a really solid start.

Up the Villa

P.S Come on Burnley!
		
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Been a lot on here about Villa Lately


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## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I saw one a few weeks ago the keeper came out of his box to clear the ball and hurt himself.
The ref played on and the opponent scored after a short period 30 seconds approx.
The ref told us if he’s out of the box he’s just another player.
If he had been in his 18 yard box he would stop the game.
Bizzare.
		
Click to expand...

Bizarre indeed. That is a whole new level of rules I was unaware of, or misinterpretation.

So, I assume the goalkeeper would be advised to roll back into his penalty area? For once you would see good logic for a player rolling 27 times after getting injured


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Bizarre indeed. That is a whole new level of rules I was unaware of, or misinterpretation.

So, I assume the goalkeeper would be advised to roll back into his penalty area? For once you would see good logic for a player rolling 27 times after getting injured 

Click to expand...

He got a bad bounce and missed the ball.
We had a bit of a laugh but he tore a thigh muscle.

It’s the reason if he brings someone down outside the box he gets a red card .
But inside he only gets yellow but a foul in the box is a pen.
The ref was great he really explained it very well , pity the PL refs don’t do this it might educate us a bit.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			He got a bad bounce and missed the ball.
We had a bit of a laugh but he tore a thigh muscle.

It’s the reason if he brings someone down outside the box he gets a red card .
But inside he only gets yellow but a foul in the box is a pen.
The ref was great he really explained it very well , pity the PL refs don’t do this it might educate us a bit.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I'm still not entirely convinced by his explanation. I couldn't find anything in the rules that a referee should stop play if a goalkeeper is injured, so felt it was just an unwritten rule. But, certainly didn't see anything as specific to say the ref should stop play if the keeper injures himself inside the box, but not outside. It almost sounds like someone on the golf course who does a convincing job of telling someone a rule of golf, when in actual fact it is garbage.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, but I'm still not entirely convinced by his explanation. I couldn't find anything in the rules that a referee should stop play if a goalkeeper is injured, so felt it was just an unwritten rule. But, certainly didn't see anything as specific to say the ref should stop play if the keeper injures himself inside the box, but not outside. It almost sounds like someone on the golf course who does a convincing job of telling someone a rule of golf, when in actual fact it is garbage.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I would agree with that and it’s more of an etiquette call.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466506225814839299


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## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466506225814839299

Click to expand...

Yep, think everyone here has agreed with that. The discussion was more to do with "should the ref blow the whistle if a keeper is injured". By sounds of it, there is no rule that he should, but often they will once they become aware of the situation


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yep, think everyone here has agreed with that. The discussion was more to do with "should the ref blow the whistle if a keeper is injured". By sounds of it, there is no rule that he should, but often they will once they become aware of the situation
		
Click to expand...

Maybe read the whole thread were it says referees usually stop play for game management when a keeper is injured and it’s how referee’s are taught to referee.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe read the whole thread were it says referees usually stop play for game management when a keeper is injured and it’s how referee’s are taught to referee.
		
Click to expand...

Apologies, twitter links don't work when I try and open them here from.my phone for some reason. I just see the main tweet.


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## Slime (Dec 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yep, think everyone here has agreed with that. The discussion was more to do with* "should the ref blow the whistle if a keeper is injured"*. By sounds of it, there is no rule that he should, but often they will once they become aware of the situation
		
Click to expand...

The problem is that so many cheating injured players are not in the slightest bit injured, therefore the ref wouldn't have a clue whether or not to blow his whistle.
In Thursday's case, De Gea was quite clearly *not* injured and justice was clearly served.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			The problem is that so many cheating injured players are not in the slightest bit injured, therefore the ref wouldn't have a clue whether or not to blow his whistle.
In Thursday's case, De Gea was quite clearly *not* injured and justice was clearly served.
		
Click to expand...

I totally agree about De Gea, but a Ref may still have to make a judgement call as we’ve seen recently players can collapse for health reasons.

Cheating is a stain on the game, but I rather we call a cheat out with hindsight than condemn the Ref for being conned. (not saying you are)


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## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			There were a lot of people that were part of the OGS mess. No idea what the club planned once Rangnick came in, but they needed someone to take charge until that point. Had they got rid of Carrick, it would have to be someone else who was part of the mess. If we got rid of them all, then a player would need to take charge, Woodward, kit man? No reason why Carrick should not take charge for a few games, he was at least familiar and had a relationship with the players. We also have no idea what his thoughts and ideas were on football. Ultimately OGS was in charge, not Carrick. Maybe Carrick 100% backed his ideas, maybe they disagreed about certain things. But OGS made the final decisions and Carrick can't exactly come out in the press, or even come out to the players, to say he disagrees with OGS.
		
Click to expand...

The buck stops with the manager no doubt about it. I very much doubt OGS was making all of the decisions on tactics etc. We'll never know. 

This isnt a dig at yernited as we've seen it happen at other clubs too. I find it funny whwn managers are sacked and coaches are kept. 

Lets be honest, OGS's sacking was a knee jerk reaction to the Watford defeat. Had Yernited beat Watford i'm certain he'd have stayed. On the previous results/performances he should've been sacked. 

For me, A new manager and staff should've been lined up before any one was sacked.


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## Slime (Dec 3, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I totally agree about De Gea, *but a Ref may still have to make a judgement call as we’ve seen recently players can collapse for health reasons.*

Cheating is a stain on the game, but I rather we call a cheat out with hindsight than condemn the Ref for being conned. (not saying you are)
		
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree, and this is why cheating/feigning injury has to be stamped out!
Only then will refs be able to make a far more informed decision.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2021)

Slime said:



			I absolutely agree, and this is why cheating/feigning injury has to be stamped out!
Only then will refs be able to make a far more informed decision.
		
Click to expand...

Seems to have gone the other way imo.
Players diving and feigning injury and refs turning a blind eye a lot more this season .
But two booked in the derby for diving. ( should have been three)


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 3, 2021)

Thankfully the PL is the least inflicted league with faking injuries and time wasting. If you watch Serie A or some farmers leagues like France it is seriously toxic. I watched a game a few weeks ago in Ligue 1 and I'm not joking there were over 8 injury breaks in the second half. All for the same team who happened to be winning.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The buck stops with the manager no doubt about it. I very much doubt OGS was making all of the decisions on tactics etc. We'll never know.

This isnt a dig at yernited as we've seen it happen at other clubs too. I find it funny whwn managers are sacked and coaches are kept.

Lets be honest, OGS's sacking was a knee jerk reaction to the Watford defeat. Had Yernited beat Watford i'm certain he'd have stayed. On the previous results/performances he should've been sacked.

For me, A new manager and staff should've been lined up before any one was sacked.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah. Though, anytime a manager is sacked, it is on the back of a defeat, that has followed another string of bad performances. Had Utd beat Watford would he have stayed? Quite possibly, we'll never know. But, his cards were well and truly numbered, so had we lost the game after, or the one after that,  etc, he was very likely going to go. His only chance would have been to beat Watford, then suddenly go on a ridiculous winning run. You could argue he had some of those moments earlier in his Utd career, where a great result turned things round from a likely sack.

I don't think any club plans ahead to sack a manager. The reason a manager gets a contract is because the club must have some faith in them. Bad results come along, the club hope things will turn around, though some clubs are more impatient than others. If a club has a new manager and coaching set up ready to come in, it means they'd have needed time to get everything ready whilst Ole was still at the wheel. It doesn't happen quickly. If it does happen quickly, you could argue there is less of a plan, and they've just found anyone that is available at short notice. 

I'm not critical of how the club have reacted so far in this situation. Maybe Ole could have been fired a few weeks ago, but maybe that was simply the time the club needed to start devising a plan, whilst giving him a few more games. They didn't rush and bring in Conte, and personally I'm quite happy with that. Nothing against Conte, but it just seemed like a Mourinho situation all over again. I'd never really heard of Rangnick, but from what I have seen so far I quite like him. Might backfire, but any manager is a risk. I think employing until end of season, and keeping him on after has been a pretty good move. They've basically given themselves a get out clause if he is a big failure, but still give him a long term project to keep him motivated, and if things go very well he may well keep the job.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2021)

Jut had a quick peruse on the net. Of the 20 teams in the prem. Six managers have been sacked so far this season. A season in which only 13/14 games have been played. I follow the BBC site and they have been fantastic in putting pressure on managers. I have a feeling it has Benitez at Everton in its sights next ☹️


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## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Been a lot on here about Villa Lately 

Click to expand...

So there should be! We’re massive 😉😂


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## Piece (Dec 4, 2021)

Solanke's goal v Fulham last night...a training pitch masterpiece realised in a game. Superb goal.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 4, 2021)

Piece said:



			Solanke's goal v Fulham last night...a training pitch masterpiece realised in a game. Superb goal. 

Click to expand...

Brilliant wasn’t it.
One off the training field working brilliantly .


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			So there should be! We’re massive 😉😂
		
Click to expand...

That’s what all small club supporters think 😂😂😉


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## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			So there should be! We’re massive 😉😂
		
Click to expand...

Wait till you lose a couple, the Gerrard haters will join you.


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 4, 2021)

Thought there may have been some WHU fans posting!


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## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Thought there may have been some WHU fans posting!
		
Click to expand...

Or, someone on about keepers being beat at their near post


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 4, 2021)

Looks Like the massive Villa have been joined by the massive Hammers 😁👍
Probably the massive Hornets later😳😁


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## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The buck stops with the manager no doubt about it. I very much doubt OGS was making all of the decisions on tactics etc. We'll never know.

This isnt a dig at yernited as we've seen it happen at other clubs too. I find it funny whwn managers are sacked and coaches are kept.

Lets be honest, OGS's sacking was a knee jerk reaction to the Watford defeat. Had Yernited beat Watford i'm certain he'd have stayed. On the previous results/performances he should've been sacked.

For me, A new manager and staff should've been lined up before any one was sacked.
		
Click to expand...

Just watched the full Rangnick press conference. It wasn't really expanded on, but he mentioned he had a long conversation with Ole before the Chelsea game about the club.

I wonder if this suggests the club were actually planning a change before the Watford game, and that Ole knew he was about to leave? He did seem to be waving goodbye after Watford game anyway, and his leaving interview was arranged pretty quickly after announcement made. So, perhaps he had known for a while he was about to go, and that even if Utd had beat Watford, he'd still have gone?


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## nickjdavis (Dec 4, 2021)

At last.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 4, 2021)

Congratulations Liverpool football club on winning the League today lmao


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## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2021)

Danny Rose = Shocking

All over the place in first 10 mins, but not in the right places


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## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Looks Like the massive Villa have been joined by the massive Hammers 😁👍
Probably the massive Hornets later😳😁
		
Click to expand...

I was calling us massive because of West Ham fans doing the same thing 😂 not sure everyone got the joke


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## Fade and Die (Dec 4, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			I was calling us massive because of West Ham fans doing the same thing 😂 not sure everyone got the joke
		
Click to expand...

Everywhere we go.👍😁


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## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2021)

The ref just stopped the game because the Watford keeper saved a shot with his groin, and was on the ground injured. Does this confirm referees will stop the game if a keeper is injured regardless of how serious it is, or was it a head injury


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## pendodave (Dec 4, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Thought there may have been some WHU fans posting!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry. We're all still too busy working out if we've got enough points to stay up...


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The ref just stopped the game because the Watford keeper saved a shot with his groin, and was on the ground injured. Does this confirm referees will stop the game if a keeper is injured regardless of how serious it is, or was it a head injury 

Click to expand...

When do you reckon you will move on 🙄


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## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When do you reckon you will move on 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Do you take everything so seriously?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Congratulations Liverpool football club on winning the League today lmao
		
Click to expand...

Jealousy is a terrible trait.😉


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## Foxholer (Dec 4, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Or, someone on about keepers being beat at their near post
		
Click to expand...

Cross of the day!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467219720042594317


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## Old Skier (Dec 4, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467219720042594317

Click to expand...

Ooops, someone’s in trouble.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Ooops, someone’s in trouble.
		
Click to expand...

That’s one hell of a statement 😂


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 4, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Ooops, someone’s in trouble.
		
Click to expand...

The referee in question was found guilty of taking a bribe when an assistant, from a referee who was banned for life for match fixing.  So maybe not.


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## 4LEX (Dec 4, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Just watched the full Rangnick press conference. It wasn't really expanded on, but he mentioned he had a long conversation with Ole before the Chelsea game about the club.

I wonder if this suggests the club were actually planning a change before the Watford game, and that Ole knew he was about to leave? He did seem to be waving goodbye after Watford game anyway, and his leaving interview was arranged pretty quickly after announcement made. So, perhaps he had known for a while he was about to go, and that even if Utd had beat Watford, he'd still have gone?
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. Ole would still have been in charge had it finished 2-1. At 4-1 he knew the players got him sacked and that was the end, hence the waving goodbye. Utd aren't run well enough to make sensible plans. Even after he was sacked it took almost two weeks to appoint someone, that says it all.

It'll be interesting to see who comes in the summer.


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## 4LEX (Dec 4, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Ooops, someone’s in trouble.
		
Click to expand...

The ref was brilliant bar two decisions. He let the game flow and didn't give much. It resulted in probababy the best game this season. Lots of free flowing attacking football. No idea how it only finished 3-2.

Dortmund should've had a penalty but VAR didn't call him up on it. He also missed the Bayern penalty but VAR did call him up on that. It's sour grapes from Bellingham and he should be banned for a month for that sort of talk.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2021)

A chicken balti pie and celebrating a last minute winner......scenes

Telly clappers wouldnt understand 😄


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## Swango1980 (Dec 5, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			A chicken balti pie and celebrating a last minute winner......scenes

Telly clappers wouldnt understand 😄
		
Click to expand...

Or vegans


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2021)

United certainly looking a bit more active and intense today .............................. or is it just me?


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## Billysboots (Dec 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			United certainly looking a bit more active and intense today .............................. or is it just me?
		
Click to expand...

Much higher tempo. Noticeably so.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			United certainly looking a bit more active and intense today .............................. or is it just me?
		
Click to expand...


no dodgy stream here, waiting for the Squirrell updates


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2021)

Clyne was lucky not to get a red card, nasty 2nd bite at Fred.


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## Old Skier (Dec 5, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			A chicken balti pie and celebrating a last minute winner......scenes

Telly clappers wouldnt understand 😄
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like you were at Dover, didn’t see you there


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2021)

It took a while, but here it is


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			It took a while, but here it is

View attachment 39808

Click to expand...


thought hed gone to the toilet bowl for the afternoon lol


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			thought he'd gone to the toilet bowl for the afternoon lol
		
Click to expand...

His buddy wants to make an appearance, too.
But, he has to be patient!


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

im kind of glad the prem leagues not been televised this afternoon, watched an utter cracker in serie A, Verona were 3-0 down at HT just gone 4-3 up, some hit to win it too


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## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Sounds like you were at Dover, didn’t see you there 

Click to expand...

I wasnt, but you probably heard me from Wolverhampton😄


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2021)

Plenty of green shoots of recovery for me today.
First three points for a long time.
First EPL home clean sheet this season, I believe.
First German to win their opening EPL game.

A good day.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			Plenty of green shoots of recovery for me today.
*First three points for a long time.*
First EPL home clean sheet this season, I believe.
First German to win their opening EPL game.

A good day.
		
Click to expand...

Thursday really wasn’t that long ago.


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Thursday really wasn’t that long ago.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant against a decent team. 
DOH!


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

joke VAR decision to save Schmeical


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## Swango1980 (Dec 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			joke VAR decision to save Schmeical
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. Clearly I don't know the rule, because not in a BILLION years was Schmeichel ever in control of that ball.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Agreed. Clearly I don't know the rule, because not in a BILLION years was Schmeichel ever in control of that ball.
		
Click to expand...

He also wasnt hurt and Im pretty sure Ramsey didnt even touch him lol


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## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Agreed. Clearly I don't know the rule, because not in a BILLION years was Schmeichel ever in control of that ball.
		
Click to expand...

The goalkeepers on here would've known the rule 😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			joke VAR decision to save Schmeical
		
Click to expand...

Apparently correct though. He doesn't have to be 'in control ', he just has to have his hand on it. Merson described it as like a try in rugby, you just need downward pressure. 

Every day's a learning day.........


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## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2021)

Apparently because he's got his hand pushed down on the ball that means he's in control of the ball. 

The 2 hands on the ball rule is a myth.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Apparently correct though. He doesn't have to be 'in control ', he just has to have his hand on it. Merson described it as like a try in rugby, you just need downward pressure.

Every day's a learning day.........
		
Click to expand...


Every day you learn theres another stupid rule kinda day


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## IanM (Dec 5, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The 2 hands on the ball rule is a myth.
		
Click to expand...


Or very old and now changed😁
No footy refs on here?


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

Turns out 5 fouls isnt enough in one half to get a yellow card too. Learning more and more every day.....


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Every day you learn theres another stupid rule kinda day 

Click to expand...

I agree 😄. In no one's mind is schmeichel in possession of that ball but the law says he is 🤷‍♂️.


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## Beezerk (Dec 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Every day you learn theres another stupid rule kinda day 

Click to expand...

Why is it stupid though?
If a keeper has one hand in the ball but at the same time has it under control, I don’t see the problem.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Why is it stupid though?
If a keeper has one hand in the ball but at the same time has it under control, I don’t see the problem.
		
Click to expand...


do you actually think he had that under control?


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## Beezerk (Dec 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			do you actually think he had that under control?
		
Click to expand...

Very hard to tell from the clip I’ve seen but the ball did appear stationary under his hand so yes.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Very hard to tell from the clip I’ve seen but the ball did appear stationary under his hand so yes.
		
Click to expand...


fair enough to me he dropped the ball and reached out at full stretch and for a snapshot had his hand on it


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## Beezerk (Dec 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			fair enough to me he dropped the ball and reached out at full stretch and for a snapshot had his hand on it
		
Click to expand...

Yes, it’s virtually impossible to tell if the ball would have squirted loose had the Villa player not booted it into the net.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			fair enough to me he dropped the ball and reached out at full stretch and for a snapshot had his hand on it
		
Click to expand...

Sky timed it as 1/12th of a second 😳. The point is though, he doesn't have to be in control, he just has to have his hand on it.

Below is lifted from the BBC website. 

Here's what the laws of the game say...
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the hand(s) when:

the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sky timed it as 1/12th of a second 😳. The point is though, he doesn't have to be in control, he just has to have his hand on it.
		
Click to expand...


and were back to me thinking its a stupid rule


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2021)

Gotta love Chesterfields celebration at Salford, unless youre Scholesy 🤣🤣🤣


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## Billysboots (Dec 5, 2021)

IanM said:



			Or very old and now changed😁
*No footy refs on here?*

Click to expand...

Dozens 🤔


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## Bdill93 (Dec 5, 2021)

Up the f-in villllaaaaaaaaa

9 points from 12.

Steven Gerrard’s claret and blue army!!!!


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## IanM (Dec 5, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Dozens 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Apologies.... I meant "with the formal qualifications!" 🤣


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## Billysboots (Dec 5, 2021)

IanM said:



			Apologies.... I meant "with the formal qualifications!" 🤣
		
Click to expand...

😂


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## Billysboots (Dec 5, 2021)

I’ve just watched Rangnick’s post match interview on Sky Sports and I have to say, after years of either the monosyllabic Mourinho, eccentric LVG or tactically inept Solskjaer, it was an absolute breath of fresh air.

Articulate, pleasant demeanour and, most importantly of all for me, he clearly knows what he is talking about, what he is trying to achieve, and crucially how every one of his players fits into his plans.

For the first time in a long, long time I am actually feeling enthusiastic about a United manager and looking forward to the next few games. Let’s hope the depression engulfing the club for the last few months continues to lift and those in positions of power build on the first sensible appointment they have made in nearly a decade.


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2021)

He just sounded like a man with a defined plan and ideas of how to achieve said plan.
As you say, a breath of fresh air.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The ref just stopped the game because the Watford keeper saved a shot with his groin, and was on the ground injured. Does this confirm referees will stop the game if a keeper is injured regardless of how serious it is, or was it a head injury 

Click to expand...

It’s a very well known fact some men have their brains there.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 5, 2021)

So. Marcel Brands has gone. Never understood what he was ever supposed to be doing, apart from being involved in an ever baffling waste of of money he seems to have achieved nothing.

Good riddance? Maybe. Honestly I’ve no idea. 🤷‍♂️


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			He just sounded like a man with a defined plan and ideas of how to achieve said plan.
As you say, a breath of fresh air.
		
Click to expand...

And it looks as though he's taken over at a very good time. Utd's next 6 league matches are Norwich (a), Brentford (a), Brighton (h), Newcastle (a), Burnley (h), Wolves (h). Even after that it's Villa (a), West Ham (h), Burnley (a), Southampton (h), Leeds (a), Watford (h). It's not until 5th March that they play Man City away that they play another team that would usually be considered a rival.


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And it looks as though he's taken over at a very good time. Utd's next 6 league matches are Norwich (a), Brentford (a), Brighton (h), Newcastle (a), Burnley (h), Wolves (h). Even after that it's Villa (a), West Ham (h), Burnley (a), Southampton (h), Leeds (a), Watford (h). It's not until 5th March that they play Man City away that they play another team that would usually be considered a rival.
		
Click to expand...

Timing, it's all about timing.


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## Billysboots (Dec 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And it looks as though he's taken over at a very good time. Utd's next 6 league matches are Norwich (a), Brentford (a), Brighton (h), Newcastle (a), Burnley (h), Wolves (h). Even after that it's Villa (a), West Ham (h), Burnley (a), Southampton (h), Leeds (a), Watford (h). It's not until 5th March that they play Man City away that they play another team that would usually be considered a rival.
		
Click to expand...

And under Solskjaer I was becoming increasingly nervous about those sort of fixtures. There was no longer any such thing as a banker, as Watford away conclusively demonstrated.


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## davemc1 (Dec 6, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			A chicken balti pie and celebrating a last minute winner......scenes

Telly clappers wouldnt understand 😄
		
Click to expand...

Going to 1 away game in 10 years doesn’t really give you the right to post this... 😆


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## davemc1 (Dec 6, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			So. Marcel Brands has gone. Never understood what he was ever supposed to be doing, apart from being involved in an ever baffling waste of of money he seems to have achieved nothing.

Good riddance? Maybe. Honestly I’ve no idea. 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

A bigger loss than ole in my eyes 🥺


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			Going to 1 away game in 10 years doesn’t really give you the right to post this... 😆
		
Click to expand...

4 actually 🤣🤣


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			So. Marcel Brands has gone. Never understood what he was ever supposed to be doing, apart from being involved in an ever baffling waste of of money he seems to have achieved nothing.

Good riddance? Maybe. Honestly I’ve no idea. 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Presumably that strengthens Rafa? Would they really get rid of Brands and then have a search for a new manager with no structure in place?


----------



## Jimaroid (Dec 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Presumably that strengthens Rafa? Would they really get rid of Brands and then have a search for a new manager with no structure in place?
		
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Assuming there was any structure with Brands in place. Who knows?

I like Rafa for what’s it’s worth but he’s neither the cause or solution to what seem to be continually poor decisions in the board.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Assuming there was any structure with Brands in place. Who knows?

I like Rafa for what’s it’s worth but *he’s neither the cause or solution to what seem to be continually poor decisions in the board*.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this. The question is whether the owner / board will give him the time to put his stamp on the situation. My worry is that we lose tonight and they get rid. We then start again with the merry go round. If they thought he was the right man in the summer then hold your nerve, wait until the injuries clear up and let him do his job. He is a manager that likes to get involved from top to bottom at a club so giving him more control, if that is what happens, might be no bad thing at this point.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			And it looks as though he's taken over at a very good time. Utd's next 6 league matches are Norwich (a), Brentford (a), Brighton (h), Newcastle (a), Burnley (h), Wolves (h). Even after that it's *Villa (a)*, West Ham (h), Burnley (a), Southampton (h), Leeds (a), Watford (h). It's not until 5th March that they play Man City away that they play another team that would usually be considered a rival.
		
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That ones a loss....


----------



## RichA (Dec 6, 2021)

Rolf Harris lookalike cleared of out of character assault.


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 6, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Or vegans
		
Click to expand...

Vegan pies are decent too at Molineux 👌🏾


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			Vegan pies are decent too at Molineux 👌🏾
		
Click to expand...

I'm not a huge fan of vegans, but putting them in pies is nothing short of barbaric.


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I'm not a huge fan of vegans, but putting them in pies is nothing short of barbaric. 

Click to expand...

Save these for when you're a dad mate.


----------



## DaveR (Dec 6, 2021)

Why is Rangnick only being talked about as an interim manager and not a potential full time one?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Why is Rangnick only being talked about as an interim manager and not a potential full time one?
		
Click to expand...

He will be if he does well. It was also one of the questions put to him during his 1st press conference


----------



## Slime (Dec 6, 2021)

DaveR said:



*Why is Rangnick only being talked about as an interim manager* and not a potential full time one?
		
Click to expand...

Because he's the interim manager.


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

good to see Xhaka have to earn his place back in the side lol

back to Arteta out it is


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			good to see Xhaka have to earn his place back in the side lol

back to Arteta out it is 

Click to expand...

Just noticed Mike Dean is the ref tonight........straight into the card markets 🤣


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 6, 2021)

Apparently Benitez has received a vote of confidence from the board.

So win tonight or you're gone Rafa...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2021)

It seems the Everton fans are walking out after 27 mins tonight in protest at lack of trophies, 27 years since FA Cup - if Arsenal slap a couple in early some will be out of the door before then 😁


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Just noticed Mike Dean is the ref tonight........straight into the card markets 🤣
		
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If i thought it would be the last wed see of him then Id love to see him sent off AGAIN, sadly hes utterly untouchable it seems  so much for Artetas policies lol, exception made for underperforming older players whilkst the younger players continue to bail him out


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Apparently Benitez has received a vote of confidence from the board.

So win tonight or you're gone Rafa... 

Click to expand...

I really hope we don’t sack another manager!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

20 minute warning🤣


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2021)

If Everton are looking pumped up in first 25 minutes, maybe even take a lead, I wonder how many fans will walk out?


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 6, 2021)

Nice gesture by both teams on 6 minutes.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

10 minutes....

Ive  not been this excited about goings on at Goodison since last wednesday 🤣🤣


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## Jimaroid (Dec 6, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			10 minutes....

Ive  not been this excited about goings on at Goodison since last wednesday 🤣🤣
		
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Don’t get too excited. We never deliver.


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			10 minutes....

Ive  not been this excited about goings on at Goodison since last wednesday 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...


anything not to watch the dirge on the pitch


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			10 minutes....

Ive  not been this excited about goings on at Goodison since last wednesday 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

They will prob miss the target 😁

anyway 

FA Cup 3rd Round Draw

Boreham Wood or St Albans v AFC Wimbledon

Yeovil Town v Bournemouth

Stoke City v Leyton Orient

Swansea City v Southampton

Chelsea v Chesterfield

Liverpool v Shrewsbury Town

Cardiff v Preston North End

Coventry City v Derby County

Burnley v Huddersfield

West Bromwich Albion v Brighton and Hove Albion

Kidderminster Harriers v Reading

Leicester City v Watford

Mansfield Town v Middlesbrough

Hartlepool United v Blackpool

Hull City v Everton

Bristol City v Fulham

Tottenham Hotspur v Morecambe

Millwall v Crystal Palace

Port Vale v Brentford

Swindon Town v Manchester City

Wigan Athletic v Blackburn Rovers

Luton Town v Harrogate Town

Birmingham City v Plymouth Argyle

Manchester United v Aston Villa

Wolverhampton Wanderers v Sheffield United

Newcastle United v Cambridge United

Barnsley v Ipswich Town or Barrow

Peterborough United v Bristol Rovers

West Ham United v Leeds United

Queens Park Rangers v Rotherham

Charlton Athletic v Norwich City

Nottingham Forest v Arsenal


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If Everton are looking pumped up in first 25 minutes, maybe even take a lead, I wonder how many fans will walk out?
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully none. The team need them. No lack of effort tonight so time to back them 👍


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They will prob miss the target 😁

anyway

FA Cup 3rd Round Draw

Boreham Wood or St Albans v AFC Wimbledon

Yeovil Town v Bournemouth

Stoke City v Leyton Orient

Swansea City v Southampton

Chelsea v Chesterfield

Liverpool v Shrewsbury Town

Cardiff v Preston North End

Coventry City v Derby County

Burnley v Huddersfield

West Bromwich Albion v Brighton and Hove Albion

Kidderminster Harriers v Reading

Leicester City v Watford

Mansfield Town v Middlesbrough

Hartlepool United v Blackpool

Hull City v Everton

Bristol City v Fulham

Tottenham Hotspur v Morecambe

Millwall v Crystal Palace

Port Vale v Brentford

Swindon Town v Manchester City

Wigan Athletic v Blackburn Rovers

Luton Town v Harrogate Town

Birmingham City v Plymouth Argyle

Manchester United v Aston Villa

Wolverhampton Wanderers v Sheffield United

Newcastle United v Cambridge United

Barnsley v Ipswich Town or Barrow

Peterborough United v Bristol Rovers

West Ham United v Leeds United

Queens Park Rangers v Rotherham

Charlton Athletic v Norwich City

Nottingham Forest v Arsenal
		
Click to expand...

Apparently going to be re-drawn as Arsenal weren't at home...


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

Wow. Snide from Godfrey.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2021)

Unless the TV underplayed it but didn't look lie too many went


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2021)

So was it 3 men and a dog that walked out 😂😂

And that’s a strange VAR - didn’t look great


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 6, 2021)

If that’s a mass walkout Olé Solskjaer is a tactical genius. Can’t believe I missed the start of Coronation Street for that damp squib.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 6, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So was it 3 men and a dog that walked out 😂😂

And that’s a strange VAR - didn’t look great
		
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That's not bad; according to yous lot they only get 2 men and a dog in.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2021)

That looked like a red to me.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 6, 2021)

Just stamp on another players face. How the .  is that not a red!!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			If that’s a mass walkout Olé Solskjaer is a tactical genius. Can’t believe I missed the start of Coronation Street for that damp squib.
		
Click to expand...

Like their board, they couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery neither.


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 6, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			That's not bad; according to yous lot they only get 2 men and a dog in. 

Click to expand...

And I think you’ll find the dog is a stray, only interested in the left over meat pies.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 6, 2021)

WTF! I cannot believe  that.VAR have told MD to have a look so he gives nothing  joke of a ref😡


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2021)

paddyc said:



			WTF! I cannot believe  that.VAR have told MD to have a look so he gives nothing  joke of a ref😡
		
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Shocking ref and clear evidence of a boot in the face. Does some of the blame lay with VAR not directing Dean to give the card?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467955301118885888
Can’t understand how they have seen that and not done anything


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

Get in Ode 

Horror first half, and were winning!

So painfully slow in possession, disorganised in defense especially at set pieces. Thankfully they look worse than we do but its close

Be nice for Dean to find his cards 2nd half...........


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Get in Ode 

Horror first half, and were winning!

So painfully slow in possession, disorganised in defense especially at set pieces. Thankfully they look worse than we do but its close

*Be nice for Dean to find his cards 2nd half*...........
		
Click to expand...

Loads and quick😄


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Loads and quick😄
		
Click to expand...


hes got to do something having not been able to find a way to disallow the goal  

cant see him being so quiet 2nd half lol


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

Any chance we actually try and take the game to them now were in front rather than trying to sit on it! not holding my breath


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			hes got to do something having not been able to find a way to disallow the goal 

cant see him being so quiet 2nd half lol
		
Click to expand...

1 down 4 more to go 🤣


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Any chance we actually try and take the game to them now were in front rather than trying to sit on it! not holding my breath
		
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What happened to 1-0 to the Arsenal?


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What happened to 1-0 to the Arsenal?
		
Click to expand...


hopefully it left in a brown paper bag when George did lol, home and away for years I watched that and now I get called a telly clapper, no wonder why haha


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

were actually getting overrun in midfield by Allan and Doucore. Get Lokonga on ffs


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

Richarlison gonna explode here haha


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2021)

Another poor VAR or the right call?  Discuss lol


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

Ive got it on good authority Klopp is in the VAR booth


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 6, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			And I think you’ll find the dog is a stray, only interested in the left over meat pies.
		
Click to expand...

There's meat in football pies...


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

hows he not book Lacazette there?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2021)

Well, I thought they'd improved VAR in terms of offside checks. Looks like they've gone back to the 2020/21 season interpretation for this game.


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

xhaka yellow backers go collect 

get him off arteta ffs


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Richarlison gonna explode here haha
		
Click to expand...

He has scored 2 crackers to be fair. It's going to make you a bit grumpy and bearing in mind his starting point is petulant sulking ............


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 6, 2021)

Once again imo VAR killing the game for match going fans,that must have been his toe nail.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Ive got it on good authority Klopp is in the VAR booth
		
Click to expand...

The red line looks ahead of Richarlison's foot so I think you must be right 😡.

As it happens I think he was off but not by the amount Jurgen drew on the screen.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Dec 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			xhaka yellow backers go collect

get him off arteta ffs
		
Click to expand...

No idea how he gets a place in the team right now


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			No idea how he gets a place in the team right now
		
Click to expand...


just walks straight back in, half fit, slows everything down, utterly untouchable, showes how bad Artetas judgement is
getting overrun in there and he switches tierney out as hes had a few games out injured sigh


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

wont sign a contract want away striker comes on before your 70m signing

shop window sub again sigh


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

play acting and time wasting at Goodison - get a grip ffs


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2021)

Well done Arteta, watching Arsenal.is now like watching Serie A. Players spending more time on the ground "injured"


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467591404453081090
😂😂😂


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 6, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			There's meat in football pies... 

Click to expand...

Worst one I ever had was at Port Vale. They were playing Sheffield United in the old third division. My mate was a Blades fan and had a spare ticket. Top of the table clash, we stood in the uncovered away end and got drenched watching the worst 3-3 draw I have ever seen.

And the steak pie at half time was, in reality, a gravy and fresh air pie.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			wont sign a contract want away striker comes on before your 70m signing

shop window sub again sigh
		
Click to expand...

Why are we bringing  on a player who can't play, can't score goals, wants to leave anyway, is championship  standard and we leave our striker and captain on the bench who needs a goal and a confidence  boost.Just don't get Artetas thinking!@


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			just walks straight back in, half fit, slows everything down, utterly untouchable, showes how bad Artetas judgement is
getting overrun in there and he switches tierney out as hes had a few games out injured sigh
		
Click to expand...

Bloody hell he's  slow


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Why are we bringing  on a player who can't play, can't score goals, wants to leave anyway, is championship  standard and we leave our striker and captain on the bench who needs a goal and a confidence  boost.Just don't get Artetas thinking!@
		
Click to expand...

shop window tfr not that it gets them anywhere

oh i have no prob with aubam having a spell on the bench, or even in the stiffs, rather see Balogun or Pepe given a chance

struggle to want any of the over 25s anywhere near the pitch currently! happily see us just pick an U25s side


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

we deserve to lose here, and the manager get everything thrown his way for it


----------



## paddyc (Dec 6, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Why are we bringing  on a player who can't play, can't score goals, wants to leave anyway, is championship  standard and we leave our striker and captain on the bench who needs a goal and a confidence  boost.Just don't get Artetas thinking!@
		
Click to expand...

I rest my case!


----------



## pendodave (Dec 6, 2021)

This is such a terrible game in so many ways...
But oddly captivating.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2021)

pendodave said:



			This is such a terrible game in so many ways...
But oddly captivating.
		
Click to expand...

I can think of other ways to describe it


----------



## need_my_wedge (Dec 6, 2021)

We deserved that. Been shocking


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2021)

That is some finish


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2021)

Blow the whistle, blow the whistle 😆.

Have a bit of that.


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

Some hit that well done Everton

Got all we deserved, maybe the hollow plaudits weve been receiving will dry up now!


----------



## pendodave (Dec 6, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I can think of other ways to describe it
		
Click to expand...

But most of them would get you banned...
Lol at that goal though. Tbf, all 3 have been good, despite the rest of the game being so low in quality.


----------



## Slime (Dec 6, 2021)

Auba, how crap is he these days?


----------



## need_my_wedge (Dec 6, 2021)

And Aubamayang sums it up with whatever that was supposed to be


----------



## IanM (Dec 6, 2021)

Interesting last few mins


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2021)

Massive win for Everton, massive. Should lift the confidence of everyone. 

Thank you Arsenal by the way. Two sitters missed, sat back and let us in. No wonder Arsenal fans on here are sick tonight.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Phew!


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Massive win for Everton, massive. Should lift the confidence of everyone.

Thank you Arsenal by the way. Two sitters missed, sat back and let us in. No wonder Arsenal fans on here are sick tonight.
		
Click to expand...


not tonight, its every game mate, this is the Arteta process were supposed to trust in lol

Everton fans retreating on my manager swap offer lol


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2021)

Some shocking finishing there.
And some very strange reffing decisions.
Gabriel is pulling Dacores shirt , he knocks his hand off and it’s a foul for Gunners bizzare.
Some nasty fouls and nothing , what happened to the real Mike Dean.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Some shocking finishing there.
And some very strange reffing decisions.
Gabriel is pulling Dacores shirt , he knocks his hand off and it’s a foul for Gunners bizzare.
*Some nasty fouls and nothing , what happened to the real Mike Dean.*

Click to expand...

I’m sitting here Telly Clapping thinking exactly the same.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Some shocking finishing there.
And some very strange reffing decisions.
Gabriel is pulling Dacores shirt , he knocks his hand off and it’s a foul for Gunners bizzare.
Some nasty fouls and nothing , what happened to the real Mike Dean.
		
Click to expand...

Godfrey's should have gone and I was amazed little was made of Gordon's late tackle. It was over the ankle and the sort that looks awful in low mo. Usually leads to a red.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 6, 2021)

Crap performance got what we deserved. From looking like we could possibly  be pushing for 4th place a couple of weeks ago we will do well to make top 8 . Ironic he brings back Xhaka and we have probably worst performance  of season.Missed Smith-Rowe big time.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Dec 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Massive win for Everton, massive. Should lift the confidence of everyone.

Thank you Arsenal by the way. Two sitters missed, sat back and let us in. No wonder Arsenal fans on here are sick tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Excellent result. They will be dancing round the streets in Morpeth tonight


----------



## 3offTheTee (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Phew!
		
Click to expand...

Very pleased for you Paul. Great result


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Crap performance got what we deserved. From looking like we could possibly  be pushing for 4th place a couple of weeks ago we will do well to make top 8 . Ironic he brings back Xhaka and we have probably worst performance  of season.Missed Smith-Rowe big time.
		
Click to expand...

those who thought 4th was realistic are delusional, be lucky to be top half still!

over reliant on Smith Rowe and Saka, both look knackered and carrying injuries

still too much deadwood, mainly in the so called leadership group; aubam laca xhaka, arteta


----------



## Jimaroid (Dec 6, 2021)

Ridiculous game really, should have been ten men for most of it. Some effort from Richarlison through to the end, was half expecting him to blow up but he kept it  together.


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

some chatter of a covid outbreak at Spurs


----------



## Badger (Dec 6, 2021)

Can live with following a poor side but hard to stomach a team of bottlers.  Like Xmas day for the opposition whenever we go up the M6. When Godfrey snapped Saka in half and then stamped on Tomiyasu not one single player confronted him or was around the ref.  Nketiah told the club he's not staying when his contract runs out and days later he's getting minutes when we've got a kid scoring two a game for the u23's let alone 72 million Pepe. Got what we deserved.

That said, Mike Dean is a disgrace, finally booked Godfrey when he should already have had a red and a yellow and Gordon went over the top (not saying deliberately) on Tavares and he gave a throw in, which we somehow managed to concede the equaliser from as only we could.

This last few days has reminded me how happier I was when I'd lost interest in football ☺️


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2021)

lol Richarlison, posted a pic on social media with the match ball and "hat trick" on it


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol Richarlison, posted a pic on social media with the match ball and "hat trick" on it 

Click to expand...

Another Everton first🤣


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 7, 2021)

Turns out the good victory at the weekend may have come at a cost 

Zouma rumoured (strongly) to have done his ACL (the other one from before)

Add that to obgonna being out (ironically ACL done in a good win against Liverpool, must be something about winning against top teams costs us important players) and it makes it tough at the back 

We have Dawson and diop who tbh I'm happy with them it's just If any injuries then we really stuffed .. rice could be moved back but we would miss him greatly in the midfield 

Rumoured we going in for either Ake or Tarkowski In January

Tbh I trust Moyes with whatever he goes with 

For me the best parts of this season have been the European games and the league cup games .. zouma and ogbonna played a total of 1 game between them in those so diop and Dawson have been outstanding in them 

Long way to go this season but we playing good football and enjoyable to watch


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Rumoured we going in for either Ake or Tarkowski In January
		
Click to expand...

Good luck with Tarkowski, I think Newcastle will be all over him.


----------



## DaveR (Dec 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Because he's the interim manager.
		
Click to expand...

🙄


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Another Everton first🤣
		
Click to expand...

Could of been worse?


----------



## need_my_wedge (Dec 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Godfrey's should have gone and I was amazed little was made of Gordon's late tackle. It was over the ankle and the sort that looks awful in low mo. Usually leads to a red.
		
Click to expand...

I only watched the last 35 mins or so, can't comment on the first hour. I can live with the defeat from what I saw, we were just shocking and didn't deserve a win, but having just seen the Godfrey "tackle", I can't for love nor money understand how that wasn't a red, let alone yellow. Equally, the Gordon late challenge on Tavares was a potential leg beaker, and should have been a booking at worst. I'm heading towards football apathy again....


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Good luck with Tarkowski, I think Newcastle will be all over him.
		
Click to expand...

Tbh I'd like them to go for him so our hand would be forced with Ake. The younger of the two. Has played with zouma before and Moyes gets the best out of his CBs so I really think a younger CB would work wonders 
.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 7, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They will prob miss the target 😁

anyway

FA Cup 3rd Round Draw

Boreham Wood or St Albans v AFC Wimbledon

Yeovil Town v Bournemouth

Stoke City v Leyton Orient

Swansea City v Southampton

Chelsea v Chesterfield

Liverpool v Shrewsbury Town

Cardiff v Preston North End

Coventry City v Derby County

Burnley v Huddersfield

West Bromwich Albion v Brighton and Hove Albion

Kidderminster Harriers v Reading

Leicester City v Watford

Mansfield Town v Middlesbrough

Hartlepool United v Blackpool

Hull City v Everton

Bristol City v Fulham

Tottenham Hotspur v Morecambe

Millwall v Crystal Palace

Port Vale v Brentford

Swindon Town v Manchester City

Wigan Athletic v Blackburn Rovers

Luton Town v Harrogate Town

Birmingham City v Plymouth Argyle

Manchester United v Aston Villa

Wolverhampton Wanderers v Sheffield United

Newcastle United v Cambridge United

Barnsley v Ipswich Town or Barrow

Peterborough United v Bristol Rovers

West Ham United v Leeds United

Queens Park Rangers v Rotherham

Charlton Athletic v Norwich City

Nottingham Forest v Arsenal
		
Click to expand...

Easy W for the Villa


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			I only watched the last 35 mins or so, can't comment on the first hour. I can live with the defeat from what I saw, we were just shocking and didn't deserve a win, but having just seen the Godfrey "tackle", I can't for love nor money understand how that wasn't a red, let alone yellow. Equally, the Gordon late challenge on Tavares was a potential leg beaker, and should have been a booking at worst. I'm heading towards football apathy again....
		
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The ref will no doubt say that Godfrey had to put his foot down somewhere and he was not looking where when he did it. The looks of Neville and Carragher afterwards said it all though. As a pro, he would have known. No defence.

Gordon's tackle was youthful exuberance but he did not have control and it could have been a leg breaker, as you rightly say. We could not have argued had that been a red either.

You passed it around quite nicely at times but with no purpose. It was a limp performance, particularly when Everton were in a bad run of form, fans on the edge of revolt. You allowed the Everton players to get into the game, find some form, allowed the crowd to respond and let Everton grow. If it helps, maybe that is payback for selling us Iwobi . Saying that, we will need at least another 8-9 victories to come close to being all level on that front.


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## HeftyHacker (Dec 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The ref will no doubt say that Godfrey had to put his foot down somewhere and he was not looking where when he did it. The looks of Neville and Carragher afterwards said it all though. As a pro, he would have known. No defence.
		
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Each of the refs are assessed at every game by a former professional footballer, and flashpoints like that are exactly the kind of thing that they are expected to feedback with what you've said - "as a pro, he would have known".

The worry is that this isn't Mike Deans first rodeo and he should have a pretty good awareness by now that a cynical and dangerous act of foul play like that is likely deliberate, especially with the 20/20 hindsight of VAR.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			I only watched the last 35 mins or so, can't comment on the first hour. I can live with the defeat from what I saw, we were just shocking and didn't deserve a win, but having just seen the Godfrey "tackle", I can't for love nor money understand how that wasn't a red, let alone yellow. Equally, the Gordon late challenge on Tavares was a potential leg beaker, and should have been a booking at worst. I'm heading towards football apathy again....
		
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The cliched line is "slow motion always makes things look worse". I wonder in this case if the opposite was true? In slow motion, a case might be put forward that his foot just landed on the head accidentally, and his immediate reaction was one of surprise. In normal speed, it seems to look a lot more as if it was something he could have avoided if he really wanted to.

Arsenal were woeful, did create some chances though. Everton seemed well up for it at times, and ironically the crowd seemed to get so much louder after 27 minutes, when all 4 Everton fans staged their walkout. I hope, for their sake, they got home in time to enjoy the finish like the rest of us telly clappers.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2021)

HeftyHacker said:



			Each of the refs are assessed at every game by a former professional footballer, and flashpoints like that are exactly the kind of thing that they are expected to feedback with what you've said - "as a pro, he would have known".

The worry is that this isn't Mike Deans first rodeo and he should have a pretty good awareness by now that a cynical and dangerous act of foul play like that is likely deliberate, especially with the 20/20 hindsight of VAR.
		
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Mike Dean may not have seen it live. And, I don't think VAR even asked him to review it? So if a mistake was made, maybe the finger needs to be pointed at the chap in VAR rather than Mike Dean on this one?


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Could of been worse?
View attachment 39834

Click to expand...

Forgot about that “magical night” 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂😂


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## nickjdavis (Dec 7, 2021)

The second disallowed "goal" last night was a joke.

Yet again VAR makes a decision where there wasn't a decision to be made....no genuine football fan, match goer or telly clapper (to use a phrase that has suddenly become popular round these parts) wants to see those goals chalked off because a players boot lace was flapping in the wind a few mm beyond another players pony tail....yes that's a facetious comparison but its genuinely where the game seems to be headed (except that heading will probably be banned in a few years). There was no way that the lines that were "drawn" on the pitch were representative of where the players feet were and seemed to indicate a good 2 or 3 inches of gap....which plainly did not exist. 

At the most the transgression was an inch and if you try to tell me that VAR is doing its job then I will stick my fingers in my ears and go "nah nar nar nar nar nar"...because I'm not listening to such rubbish. VAR might be doing "A" job...but in this instance I do not accept that VAR was doing the job it was supposed to be doing.

I've seen some shocking decisions given against my team in relation to VAR in the past couple of years....I would not have had one single complaint if that goal had been scored and stood against Newcastle.

When VAR makes a decision like that, but fails to make any reaction to a player stamping on another's, face you know its all gone to hell in a hand cart.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			The second disallowed "goal" last night was a joke.

Yet again VAR makes a decision where there wasn't a decision to be made....no genuine football fan, match goer or telly clapper (to use a phrase that has suddenly become popular round these parts) wants to see those goals chalked off because a players boot lace was flapping in the wind a few mm beyond another players pony tail....yes that's a facetious comparison but its genuinely where the game seems to be headed (except that heading will probably be banned in a few years). There was no way that the lines that were "drawn" on the pitch were representative of where the players feet were and seemed to indicate a good 2 or 3 inches of gap....which plainly did not exist.

At the most the transgression was an inch and if you try to tell me that VAR is doing its job then I will stick my fingers in my ears and go "nah nar nar nar nar nar"...because I'm not listening to such rubbish. VAR might be doing "A" job...but in this instance I do not accept that VAR was doing the job it was supposed to be doing.

I've seen some shocking decisions given against my team in relation to VAR in the past couple of years....I would not have had one single complaint if that goal had been scored and stood against Newcastle.

When VAR makes a decision like that, but fails to make any reaction to a player stamping on another's, face you know its all gone to hell in a hand cart.
		
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As I've said before, and many others have said, get rid of the bloody lines. If VAR cannot 100% tell whether it is offside or not, then that confirms that the linesman did not make an obvious error. So, just stick with his decision. 

I also note the camera was at quite an angle to the lines being drawn. I'm not sure how accurate the technology is in setting the lines in place, especially as Richarlison's foot was up in the air. The line looked significantly in front of his foot, which could be down the angle we were looking at it. Not sure if VAR just estimates this, or they have NASA type technology that pinpoints the perfect line location.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 7, 2021)

£34,000 fine but no ban;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59564618


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2021)

Pre VAR had those 2 goals been given nobody really would've complained about the offside as he never gained any real advantage.

Whilst it looks harsh, using the technology he was just offside. There will always be controversey to the really tight ones.

Afterall, it was the armchair fans/telly clappers/social media ultras  that used to whinge the most for technology to be used.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 7, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			As I've said before, and many others have said, get rid of the bloody lines. If VAR cannot 100% tell whether it is offside or not, then that confirms that the linesman did not make an obvious error. So, just stick with his decision.

I also note the camera was at quite an angle to the lines being drawn. I'm not sure how accurate the technology is in setting the lines in place, especially as Richarlison's foot was up in the air. The line looked significantly in front of his foot, which could be down the angle we were looking at it. Not sure if VAR just estimates this, or they have NASA type technology that pinpoints the perfect line location.
		
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What about if "generally" the linos keep their flags down for the big (or home) teams and leave it to VAR but for the little (or away) teams they flag?

Believe it or not, this can still have a big effect on who gets treated fairly or not, which is one reason why VAR was brought in. I get where you are coming from, but there are coward officials out there.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Could of been worse?
View attachment 39834

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What, having a European cup and PL winning manager and striker😉


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 7, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Pre VAR had those 2 goals been given nobody really would've complained about the offside as he never gained any real advantage.

Whilst it looks harsh, using the technology he was just offside. There will always be controversey to the really tight ones.

Afterall, *it was the armchair fans/telly clappers/social media ultras  that used to whinge the most for technology to be used.*

Click to expand...

To be fair Stu, they weren't the only ones but we were sold it on clear and obvious errors and diving cheats as I remember, not gnat's todger offside decisions.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Pre VAR had those 2 goals been given nobody really would've complained about the offside as he never gained any real advantage.

Whilst it looks harsh, using the technology he was just offside. There will always be controversey to the really tight ones.

*Afterall, it was the armchair fans/telly clappers/social media ultras  that used to whinge the most for technology to be used.*

Click to expand...

Of course, I never remember managers crying out for it after they were on the end of a wrong decision. I wonder how the authorities heard the loud voices of the telly clappers. After all, they have a TV, but I don't think they've a microphone


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			£34,000 fine but no ban;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59564618

Click to expand...

Might be a silly comment to make in public.
But I have to say he has a point, anyone found to be guilty of match fixing should not be reffing anywhere.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

Both were offside last night, end of story, we’ve (like most teams) been on both sides of VAR decisions and you have to accept them.

The automated VAR is currently being trialled and we’ll see if anything changes.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			What, having a European cup and PL winning manager and striker😉
		
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Not when that photo was taken he wasn’t and by the way, our Manager has won the European Cup.😇


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not when that photo was taken he wasn’t and by the way,* our Manager has won the European Cup.*😇
		
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And the Europa League.


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			...
Long way to go this season but we playing* good football and enjoyable to watch*

Click to expand...

I'd guess you missed the game against Brighton then!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			To be fair Stu, they weren't the only ones but we were sold it on clear and obvious errors and diving cheats as I remember, not gnat's todger offside decisions.
		
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A bit like brexit and our trading deals with the world😉

We never got a choice. Sky have pushed this through. I often wonder who own the software that  VAR use.

We've now got 3 variations of offside and fouls dont exist anymore just to suit VAR.

Its all aimed at making the "product" better. Sod the match going fans,theyll still put there hard earned up, turn up and shut up whilst we keep our partners happy.

I've been very consistent with my views re refs. Until we get a better standard of refs nothing will change regardless of what technology they use. 

We dont see enough younger,better, fitter refs being added to the PGMO's list.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not when that photo was taken he wasn’t and by the way, our *Manager has won the European Cup*.😇
		
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I know i was there 😝😝


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Of course, I never remember managers crying out for it after they were on the end of a wrong decision. I wonder how the authorities heard the loud voices of the telly clappers. After all, they have a TV, but I don't think they've a microphone 

Click to expand...

I take what managers say after games with a pinch of salt. 

From your favourite viewing point in your armchair, How many times did you hear the crowds in all different matches singing songs for VAR or Waving flags asking for VAR?🤷‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I take what managers say after games with a pinch of salt.

From your favourite viewing point in your armchair, How many times did you hear the crowds in all different matches singing songs for VAR or Waving flags asking for VAR?🤷‍♂️
		
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How many armchair fans did you hear crying out for it? You're obsessed by telly clappers. Football is shown extensively on television, and that is not going to change soon. So, I recommend you get over it, I think it'll make you so much happier


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## nickjdavis (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Both were offside last night, end of story, we’ve (like most teams) been on both sides of VAR decisions and* you have to accept them.*

The automated VAR is currently being trialled and we’ll see if anything changes.
		
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"nar nar nar nar nar nar nar" 

I don't believe that we should accept anything that is crushing the life out of the game that we all love - and I'm assuming that we all as fans do actually love the game....or at least did at some stage...otherwise we wouldn't be posting here. The implementation of VAR has strayed beyond its remit of rectifying obvious errors, into the realms of measuring, as well put by someone earlier....gnats gonads.

If an automated VAR offside system comes into being, I for one would like it to have an attack biased "fuzz factor" so that if any part of the forwards leading foot is in line with any part of the defenders trailing foot then the forward should be deemed onside.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 7, 2021)

Out of the last 21 seasons, with 63 possible opponents to choose from, Aston Villa have drawn Manchester United in the third round of the FA cup five times - 24% of the time!

Just feels like we always get United 

Bring them on


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## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Out of the last 21 seasons, with 63 possible opponents to choose from, Aston Villa have drawn Manchester United in the third round of the FA cup five times - 24% of the time!

Just feels like we always get United 

Bring them on
		
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I was hoping to have a nice draw against someone like Harrogate, instead we get "Steven Gerrard's Aston Villa FC" (their full name). I guess it will be a good warm up for the league, as we play each other the following week I believe.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 7, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			I'd guess you missed the game against Brighton then! 

Click to expand...

Can't play every game Like prime Barca however when you get games like 3-2 Liverpool. 3-2 Chelsea, 4-1 Leicester and 4-1 against villa it makes the season more enjoyable to watch the football played rather than just grinding out a result


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Not when that photo was taken he wasn’t and by the way, our *Manager has won the European Cup*.😇
		
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Blue in Munich said:



*And the Europa League.*

Click to expand...




Stuart_C said:



*I know i was there* 😝😝
		
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*I know, I was there.*   First English club to win all 4 European trophies. 

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl...61d680b0f8bc-1000--who-has-won-a-clean-sweep/


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			"nar nar nar nar nar nar nar" 

I don't believe that we should accept anything that is crushing the life out of the game that we all love - and I'm assuming that we all as fans do actually love the game....or at least did at some stage...otherwise we wouldn't be posting here. The implementation of VAR has strayed beyond its remit of rectifying obvious errors, into the realms of measuring, as well put by someone earlier....gnats gonads.

If an automated VAR offside system comes into being, I for one would like it to have an attack biased "fuzz factor" so that if any part of the forwards leading foot is in line with any part of the defenders trailing foot then the forward should be deemed onside.
		
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Yes I agree.
That would be the definition of Level.
Richarlason must have thought he was level by eye .
To have it ruled out like that seems to clinical.


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



*I know, I was there.*   First English club to win all 4 European trophies. 

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl...61d680b0f8bc-1000--who-has-won-a-clean-sweep/

Click to expand...


ahem, i think youll find youve still got the European conference to go to get the full set 🤣🤣🤣


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## Slime (Dec 7, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			A bit like brexit and our trading deals with the world😉

We never got a choice. Sky have pushed this through. I often wonder who own the software that  VAR use.

We've now got 3 variations of offside and fouls dont exist anymore just to suit VAR.

Its all aimed at making the "product" better. Sod the match going fans,theyll still put there hard earned up, turn up and shut up whilst we keep our partners happy.

I've been very consistent with my views re refs. Until we get a better standard of refs nothing will change regardless of what technology they use.

*We dont see enough younger,better, fitter refs being added to the PGMO's list.*

Click to expand...

Who'd want to be a ref?
Cheating players make it almost impossible and, should they get a decision wrong, they are roundly slaughtered by just about everyone.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			"nar nar nar nar nar nar nar" 

I don't believe that we should accept anything that is crushing the life out of the game that we all love - and I'm assuming that we all as fans do actually love the game....or at least did at some stage...otherwise we wouldn't be posting here. The implementation of VAR has strayed beyond its remit of rectifying obvious errors, into the realms of measuring, as well put by someone earlier....gnats gonads.

If an automated VAR offside system comes into being, I for one would like it to have an attack biased "fuzz factor" so that if any part of the forwards leading foot is in line with any part of the defenders trailing foot then the forward should be deemed onside.
		
Click to expand...

We can rant and moan as much as we like, but, using last night as an example, Everton won 2-1 and both teams finished with 11 a-side, regardless of how we feel.

I agree in principle with VAR, but it is still shocking in some of its use, until the FA/PL push changes, you, me and the rest might as well shout at the clouds.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
That would be the definition of Level.
Richarlason must have thought he was level by eye .
To have it ruled out like that seems to clinical.
		
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He was offside, I’d be fuming if it was ignored and given against us.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			ahem, i think youll find youve still got the European conference to go to get the full set 🤣🤣🤣
		
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Got to leave Spurs something they can claim 

And I see UEFA haven't added it as an option...


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He was offside, I’d be fuming if it was ignored and given against us.
		
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He was level by eye ,that’s where it’s to clinical to me.
A toenail off but thems the rules.


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## Slime (Dec 7, 2021)

But surely, if he's offside he's offside.
One inch, one foot, one yard, it doesn't really matter ...................................... he's offside.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Who'd want to be a ref?
Cheating players make it almost impossible and, should they get a decision wrong, they are roundly slaughtered by just about everyone.
		
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Some of the fouls Dean let go last night were borderline reds.
Yet he booked a few for really trivial ones
If he’s not seeing that many he should not be reffing.
Yes it’s a tough job but he’s got backup to help, how many people have backup in their job?
VAR just backs up bad decisions.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			But surely, if he's offside he's offside.
One inch, one foot, one yard, it doesn't really matter ...................................... he's offside.
		
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At the moment that’s correct.
They need to change the way the lines are drawn.
Any part of the torso level with the defender and your level imo.
Really good goals getting chalked off is not the way to do it.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 7, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I was hoping to have a nice draw against someone like Harrogate, instead we get "Steven Gerrard's Aston Villa FC" (their full name). I guess it will be a good warm up for the league, as we play each other the following week I believe.
		
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It annoys me that we’ve been drawn away! Don’t fancy our chances winning twice in a season at old Trafford 😂 just not going to happen!

Both under new managers though playing high press, could be an insane game!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			It annoys me that we’ve been drawn away! Don’t fancy our chances winning twice in a season at old Trafford 😂 just not going to happen!

Both under new managers though playing high press, could be an insane game!
		
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Draw and beat them in the replay.
Are we still having replays ?


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## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			But surely, if he's offside he's offside.
One inch, one foot, one yard, it doesn't really matter ...................................... he's offside.
		
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Agreed to a point. Although, I remain unconvinced that the technology is that accurate when judging if a player is a millimetre onside or offside, not to mention the judgement of the guy placing the lines (I assume that is what they do). So, it may actually be, when we talk about these close calls, "offside" might actually be onside and vice versa.

For me, the main issue is having to wait for that decision, after all that release of energy in celebration. It is torturous. So much so, that some of us may have calmed down a bit in our celebrations because there is always that doubt the goal will be disallowed. Before VAR, you knew almost immediately if the goal would be allowed or not.

True, if you got rid of the lines during VAR, but still judged if it was offside or not, then it can definitely be argued that there will still be that doubt whether the goal will stand or not. However, hopefully the decision will only be reversed when it is obvious by eye. In terms of last night(s) goals, before the lines were drawn, he looked like he could be onside (the linesmans call). I doubt many would argue it was the wrong decision (well, maybe Arsenal fans). 

I mean, this is purely from my own perspective, and I certainly do not expect anything to change just because I say so. Just thinking out loud. Maybe some fans adore VAR, maybe others tolerate it and think it is working as best it can, maybe others have different ideas it could be improved. I am also speaking from the unfortunate position of a telly clapper, but I've taken on board what many (but not all) match goers think, and it seems to be worse for many of them as they get even less info than we do in our armchair. At least in the Premier League, at home we get to see the footage as VAR (and the ref if penalty / red card incident) see it, so we can often know what decision they will come to before the fans in the stadium. It seems in European games, that is not the case, I don't think we get any replays until the decision is made?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			At the moment that’s correct.
They need to change the way the lines are drawn.
Any part of the torso level with the defender and your level imo.
Really good goals getting chalked off is not the way to do it.
		
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The type of goal is irrelevant, as is level with the eye, one of the reasons VAR was brought in was because the eye of the officials weren’t good enough.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The type of goal is irrelevant, as is level with the eye, one of the reasons VAR was brought in was because the eye of the officials weren’t good enough.
		
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That is true, when you also factor in movement during live action. I'm sure they'd have made significantly more correct calls if live action was paused still, even if they still had to do it by eye.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			ahem, i think youll find youve still got the European conference to go to get the full set 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully next year 😉


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Can't play every game Like prime Barca however when you get games like 3-2 Liverpool. 3-2 Chelsea, 4-1 Leicester and 4-1 against villa it makes the season more enjoyable to watch the football played rather than just grinding out a result
		
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First time I've actually watched a (near) full match for a while (since Allardyce was Manager and Carroll was the 'target' I think) but the play (admittedly by both sides, so definitely a 'grind') was simply dire. ManU v Arsenal was infinitely better!


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			But surely, if he's offside he's offside.
One inch, one foot, one yard, it doesn't really matter ...................................... he's offside.
		
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We've had a previous discussion on here about the frame rate not being high enough to measure down to the millimetre. It could look offside by an inch but it could actually be onside by six inches. Also depends on what frame they decided to stop the action on. One frame earlier and he's a foot onside. One frame later and he's a foot offside.


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			...
If an automated VAR offside system comes into being, I for one would like it to have an attack biased "fuzz factor" so that if any part of the forwards leading foot is in line with any part of the defenders trailing foot then the forward should be deemed onside.
		
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Notwithstanding an issue if both players are facing/headed towards the attacked goal, I'd agree with that approach/change.


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			We've had a previous discussion on here about the frame rate not being high enough to measure down to the millimetre. It could look offside by an inch but it could actually be onside by six inches. Also depends on what frame they decided to stop the action on. One frame earlier and he's a foot onside. One frame later and he's a foot offside.
		
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Hawk-Eye et al seem to be able to do it in Tennis, where the ball is travelling much faster than football players are.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Hawk-Eye et al seem to be able to do it in Tennis, where the ball is travelling much faster than football players are.
		
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Tennis lines are fixed, footballers are moving. Much easier to set up cameras along a line that doesn't move.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 7, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Hawk-Eye et al seem to be able to do it in Tennis, where the ball is travelling much faster than football players are.
		
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Isn't Hawkeye ball tracking technology? It's tracing the path of the ball rather than having to rely on a single frame of action to make the decision.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The type of goal is irrelevant, as is level with the eye, one of the reasons VAR was brought in was because the eye of the officials weren’t good enough.
		
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And here’s me thinking it’s supposed to be entertaining.
They have made an absolute mess of this and it needs sorting out.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 7, 2021)

Just get rid of offside. Problem solved.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Hawk-Eye et al seem to be able to do it in Tennis, where the ball is travelling much faster than football players are.
		
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Is that possible with TWO focal points though ?
In Tennis it only registers the ball.
Also how would it know who is the attacker and who is the defenders.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Just get rid of offside. Problem solved.
		
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Some quality goalhanging again.


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## Billysboots (Dec 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Some quality goalhanging again.
		
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It might allow me to resurrect my career aged 54 😂


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Isn't Hawkeye ball tracking technology? It's tracing the path of the ball rather than having to rely on a single frame of action to make the decision.
		
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Correct. It's having to rely on the 'single' frame and the rather random line that's the 'problem' for VAR currently.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			And here’s me thinking it’s supposed to be entertaining.
They have made an absolute mess of this and it needs sorting out.
		
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Where does it say any Sport is supposed to be entertaining?


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is that possible with TWO focal points though ?
In Tennis it only registers the ball.
Also how would it know who is the attacker and who is the defenders.
		
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I'm not suggesting that HawkEye should replace existing tech.


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tennis lines are fixed, footballers are moving. Much easier to set up cameras along a line that doesn't move.
		
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Since when has 'easier' been an excuse for 'not getting it right'?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Who'd want to be a ref?
Cheating players make it almost impossible and, should they get a decision wrong, *they are roundly slaughtered by just about everyone.*

Click to expand...

Its a well paid job. 

As for cheating players, its about time managers of football clubs start to take responsibility for their players. 

We always hear ex players/pundits say Refs know thw rules but not the game, players know the game but not the rules.

When you've got the likes of sky running a section of  a show analysing refs decsisions with an ex ref do you expect anything less?

When football was played at 3pm on a saturday, Eric the big yernited fan from Carlisle  who never went the game wasnt aware or bothered what foul Roger Milford gave or never gave for his team. Nowadays the same guy can vent his anger all over the internet.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			I'm not suggesting that HawkEye should replace existing tech.
		
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No just thinking aloud.
Mind you it can’t be any worse, or is the tech ok and the operators sub standard.?


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Just get rid of offside. Problem solved.
		
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Or only after the 18 yard line?


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Where does it say any Sport is supposed to be entertaining?
		
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Really???
Isn’t that why we watch ,to see great goals/ saves / defending ?
It’s why I watch.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			It might allow me to resurrect my career aged 54 😂
		
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I might struggle to goalhang in walking football.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



*How many armchair fans did you hear crying out for it*? You're obsessed by telly clappers. Football is shown extensively on television, and that is not going to change soon. So, I recommend you get over it, I think it'll make you so much happier 

Click to expand...

Thousands all over social media, virtually every night on phone ins to 5Live/Talksport etc. Sky big wigs and radio show presenters aswell as ex players on all their shows. 

Punters in boozers, people on holiday etc
They were all at it. "It works in rugby" etc was the excuse.

You're very defensive of telly clappers and armchair season ticket holders

I'm not obsessed  by telly clappers at all. I couldnt get any happier😉


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Really???
Isn’t that why we watch ,to see great goals/ saves / defending ?
It’s why I watch.
		
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So do you think Jurgen or Rafa tell the players to go and entertain the fans or come up with a game plan to try and win the game?
WE, the supporter, wish to be entertained, but it’s a results based sport, were a positive result takes priority over entertaining the fan.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2021)

City playing as a team that have qualified. No intensity or cohesion


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## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Thousands all over social media, virtually every night on phone ins to 5Live/Talksport etc. Sky big wigs and radio show presenters aswell as ex players on all their shows.

Punters in boozers, people on holiday etc
They were all at it. "It works in rugby" etc was the excuse.

You're very defensive of telly clappers and armchair season ticket holders

I'm not obsessed  by telly clappers at all. I couldnt get any happier😉
		
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O yeah, I forgot. People that go to matches never have opinions on social media, only the Telly Clappers


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

Kyle Walker what was that.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			So do you think Jurgen or Rafa tell the players to go and entertain the fans or come up with a game plan to try and win the game?
WE, the supporter, wish to be entertained, but it’s a results based sport, were a positive result takes priority over entertaining the fan.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that’s right.
But they can do both ,most of the time.


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			No just thinking aloud.
Mind you it can’t be any worse, or is the tech ok and the operators sub standard.?
		
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Given that 'the operators' are qualified referees, I'd suggest that it's the tech that needs improvement. Hardly surprising - at least not to me -given the short time it has been in use.


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			It might allow me to resurrect my career aged 54 😂
		
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Have you considered taking up Referee-ing?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Since when has 'easier' been an excuse for 'not getting it right'?
		
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I agree but you compared the tech in tennis to football and I don't think that works. You can compare goal line tech to tennis but not offsides.


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Unfortunately that’s right.
But they can do both ,most of the time.
		
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As I bemoaned earlier...I witnessed one of the 'NOT most of the time' matches involving the club I support! But hey; 'we' are still in a CL position (not that I expect - though would love to see - we'll be there at season end)!


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## Jimaroid (Dec 7, 2021)

There’s an overview of upcoming VAR tech here: https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog-fi...fside-why-arsene-wenger-thinks-it-can-fix-var

I‘m familiar with that type of skeletal tracking as it’s used in film vfx and video games. It’s certainly feasible they could make it an instant decision using it. Probably won’t make referees on the pitch any better though.


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I agree but you compared the tech in tennis to football and I don't think that works. You can compare goal line tech to tennis but not offsides.
		
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Agreed! Precisely because it's 'different' tech - and not necessarily relevant to ALL sports!
But there's still plenty of incentive for techies to come up with 'better' tech! Single (supposedly) frame analysis is definitely 'limited' by fps (and always will be).
However...Without having any corroborating stats, it's my view that the vast majority of criticism of VAR are by fans of teams that have been 'penalised' by VAR decisions!


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			There’s an overview of upcoming VAR tech here: https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog-fi...fside-why-arsene-wenger-thinks-it-can-fix-var

I‘m familiar with that type of skeletal tracking as it’s used in film vfx and video games. It’s certainly feasible they could make it an instant decision using it. Probably won’t make referees on the pitch any better though. 

Click to expand...

The question should be...Will it make offside decisions more accurate (and quicker). And that sort of tech is exactly the sort of development I inferred would be a logical improvement on what is currently in use.
Still won't satisfy the entrenched anti-tech attitudes of some though!


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

Slime said:



			Who'd want to be a ref?
Cheating players make it almost impossible and, should they get a decision wrong, they are roundly slaughtered by just about everyone.
		
Click to expand...

I Umpired Hockey to a fairly high standard many years ago (couple of International games and several National (equiv to County) Tournaments. I also played, though only to (equiv of) County 'B' level.
There's a completely different mindset about/between playing and Referee/Umpire-ing - mainly in attitude to 'applying the rules'. The 'attraction' is actually being able to watch, close-up, players doing amazing things at their chosen sport and, hopefully' contributing to many folks's enjoyment of the spectacle! There should also be a similar amount of 'pride' of 'doing your job well' too, just as players should exhibit.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			I Umpired Hockey to a fairly high standard many years ago (couple of International games and several National (equiv to County) Tournaments. I also played, though only to (equiv of) County 'B' level.
There's a completely different mindset about/between playing and Referee/Umpire-ing - mainly in attitude to 'applying the rules'. The 'attraction' is actually being able to watch, close-up, players doing amazing things at their chosen sport and, hopefully' contributing to many folks's enjoyment of the spectacle! There should also be a similar amount of 'pride' of 'doing your job well' too, just as players should exhibit.
		
Click to expand...

No offside in hockey though, easy


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			No offside in hockey though, easy 

Click to expand...

There was when I was umpiring!

Oddly enough though...
The majority of current rules that have changed since then are pretty much exactly what the/my County Coach (still, at 15, the youngest NZ Hockey Olympian - and a Gold Medallist in 1976) proposed when he harangued me about 'game-killing' rules on the 4.5+ hour boat trip home from an annual Wellington v Canterbury match! Corners - gone (replaced)! Offside - gone! Obstruction - reinterpreted as he proposed! Free Hits having to be on breach spot - gone! Has made the game much faster more skillful.


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2021)

if you want to see the worst var decision ever its to not overturn the porto red card in the CL


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 7, 2021)

Unsubstantiated rumours that there will be an outbreak of football in the WWE bout between Porto and Atletico Madrid.


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			if you want to see the worst var decision ever its to not overturn the porto red card in the CL
		
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Real Knockout punch. Did well not to be stretchered off!!!


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## 4LEX (Dec 7, 2021)

Atletico are a vile bunch of thugs and cheats. VAR working well again not to bothered to step in for the clearly wrong red card to Wendell.


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

Also worth a watch...


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 7, 2021)

I think we need a separate hockey thread.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 7, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Atletico are a vile bunch of thugs and cheats. VAR working well again not to bothered to step in for the clearly wrong red card to Wendell.
		
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Is that the Wendell that aimed an elbow at the opponent’s throat or another Wendell?  The first red card was a bit OTT, but once the bar had been set there Wendell always had to go.


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## 4LEX (Dec 7, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is that the Wendell that aimed an elbow at the opponent’s throat or another Wendell?  The first red card was a bit OTT, but once the bar had been set there Wendell always had to go.
		
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The first red was deserved, the second red was a yellow all day long. Porto got bought down to Atletico's level and lost on experience.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think we need a separate hockey thread. 

Click to expand...

Please, not another thread for LP to dominate and ruin.


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 8, 2021)

Just taken BT Sport for a month to watch The Ashes, stupid I know. Last night I watched ‘goal rush’ on BT. Accept  it was the last day of the qualifying but thought it was well presented and thoroughly enjoyable, especially The Porto/Athletico scrap!


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Just taken BT Sport for a month to watch The Ashes, stupid I know. Last night I watched ‘goal rush’ on BT. Accept  it was the last day of the qualifying but thought it was well presented and thoroughly enjoyable, especially The Porto/Athletico scrap!
		
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its excellent for the group stages, very similar to how redzone is done for NFL


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 8, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The first red was deserved, *the second red was a yellow all day long*.
		
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Not a red card?  You're having a laugh.



4LEX said:



			Porto got bought down to Atletico's level and lost on experience.
		
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No argument with that, but more fool Porto for falling for what everyone knew would happen.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 8, 2021)

Interesting line up from Man Utd tonight according to BBC Sport. Not much width but they should be fairly strong through the middle of the pitch.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2021)

Decent strike from Greenwood. United still struggling at times to keep the ball. Small steps I suppose


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2021)

bye bye Barca


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## Billysboots (Dec 8, 2021)

Van de Beek had a really decent first half right up until that shocker. Can’t make mistakes like that on the edge of your own area.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Decent strike from Greenwood. United still struggling at times to keep the ball. Small steps I suppose
		
Click to expand...


And then concede and looking like the OGS United. Full panic stations


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## 4LEX (Dec 8, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



View attachment 39859


Not a red card?  You're having a laugh.



No argument with that, but more fool Porto for falling for what everyone knew would happen.
		
Click to expand...

A picture doesn't always tell a thousand words. Watching it live I thought it was stupid but a yellow.

Although he had no reason to race across to make the original challenge as you just knew they'd be some form of play acting. I was saddened Pepe didn't try to dfish out some justice towards the end.

As much as I dislike Atletico the CL will be better with them in it, Porto are tinpot.


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2021)

Spurs game v Rennes off and sounds like the Brighton game at the weekend will be too


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## Orikoru (Dec 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			Spurs game v Rennes off and *sounds like the Brighton game at the weekend will be too*

Click to expand...

I imagine it has to be. All those with Covid causing tonight's game to be postponed would surely be isolating still by Sunday.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I imagine it has to be. All those with Covid causing tonight's game to be postponed would surely be isolating still by Sunday.
		
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And from a Brighton perspective... Spurs still currently haven't met the threshold for a postponement. So why have a threshold if it gets ignored?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 9, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			And from a Brighton perspective... Spurs still currently haven't met the threshold for a postponement. So why have a threshold if it gets ignored?
		
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Because there is 2 parts to the PL rules:

The Premier League's rulebook states "permission will not be granted to postpone a league match where the applicant club has 14 or more players listed on its squad list available" but when it comes to coronavirus requests a club can apply for a postponement and the league's board will then convene and make a decision based on medical evidence and other potential factors.

So Spurs may have 14 or more available, but can still apply, Everton v City was postponed in Jan with only 4 City players positive, but background staff decimated.


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## Orikoru (Dec 9, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			And from a Brighton perspective... Spurs still currently haven't met the threshold for a postponement. So why have a threshold if it gets ignored?
		
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Not sure the source on this as it was posted in an article without source, but:

“The 2021-22 handbook states permission will not be granted to postpone a league match if a club has 14 or more players on its squad list available.​​However, postponing league games is taken on a case-by-case basis and the decision would be made by the Premier League board if a request is received from a club.”​
I think our 13 positive tests were made up of 8 players and 5 coaching staff. We technically only have 21 'registered' players though since under-21s don't need to be. So 21 minus 8 would be 13. But I don't know how they work it out. It would seem a bit careless to go ahead with the game at this point anyway. Particularly as I believe our training ground was closed to stop the spread.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2021)

To save all the palaver, just give Brighton the points as theyd have beat spurs any way 😉


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## arnieboy (Dec 9, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			To save all the palaver, just give Brighton the points as theyd have beat spurs any way 😉
		
Click to expand...

Hadn't you heard, Spurs are on the up!


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## SteveW86 (Dec 9, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Hadn't you heard, Spurs are on the up!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I’ve heard they have had some real positive results recently


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## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2021)

Rodgers' shocking European record continues. Went from topping the group to going in the play offs for the conference league 🤦🏼‍♂️


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## fundy (Dec 9, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Rodgers' shocking European record continues. Went from topping the group to going in the play offs for the conference league 🤦🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...


how on earth is there no goal in the last 35 mins of that game


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## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			how on earth is there no goal in the last 35 mins of that game 

Click to expand...

Italians doing what Italians do best?? Defending and  Running backwards🤣


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## fundy (Dec 9, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Italians doing what Italians do best?? Defending and  Running backwards🤣
		
Click to expand...

05.5 at 9/1, o6.5 at 25/1 🤐🤐🤐🤐🤐


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## Slime (Dec 9, 2021)

fundy said:



			05.5 at 9/1, o6.5 at 25/1 🤐🤐🤐🤐🤐
		
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I just don't know what that means!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 9, 2021)

Well done the young hammers we put out today 

Defended well in a 1-0 defeat, beaten by a proper worldy strike 

Fair play to Moyes didn't bother with 1/2 young ones at back went entire back 4 unit who play week in week out together for the u23s

Great experience


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## Swingalot (Dec 9, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			To save all the palaver, just give Brighton the points as theyd have beat spurs any way 😉
		
Click to expand...

Steady on Stu...


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468883124209786884
Someone cutting some onions in the house 🥲


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## Bdill93 (Dec 10, 2021)

Easy W incoming for the villa this weekend...

Or maybe not.

Either way - Up the Villa


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 10, 2021)

Yes, it's only the U18's Cup but got to take the little wins.


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## fundy (Dec 10, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



View attachment 39900

Yes, it's only the U18's Cup but got to take the little wins.
		
Click to expand...


haha enjoy


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## fundy (Dec 10, 2021)

wow, if Watford go down theyre gonna regret the last 10 mins tonight, Brentford looked insipid but Watford have self destructed having been in total control


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## fundy (Dec 10, 2021)

5 people have managed Watford since they last kept a clean sheet


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## 4LEX (Dec 10, 2021)

Brentford were always going to get a point. Backed them at 4.0 for the draw (cashed in) and 21.0 for the win.

Never a penalty though, attacker looking for it with minimal contact.


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## Piece (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			wow, if Watford go down theyre gonna regret the last 10 mins tonight, Brentford looked insipid but Watford have self destructed having been in total control
		
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We were a shower of 💩. Lower Championship level that was. No wonder both of my cats legged it at full-time. 😂


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 11, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1469347472594161669
😬


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

Wolves time wasting again, you'd think they'd have learned from last week.

Moss to hand out bookings around 87mins 1/66.


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Wolves time wasting again, you'd think they'd have learned from last week.

Moss to hand out bookings around 87mins 1/66.
		
Click to expand...


it gets worse.........


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

good work Stu, seems you woke Moss up lol

stupid from Jiminez


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			good work Stu, seems you woke Moss up lol

stupid from Jiminez
		
Click to expand...

Whilst it was stupid from jiminez, it was equally poor from Moss on both cards.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2021)

What’s the point of VAR if they couldn’t see that it hit Moutinho in the side and it’s even more embarrassing that Walton sticks up for it


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## Bazzatron (Dec 11, 2021)

Defended well, but when you get pens against you like that it's hard not to think it's all fixed. 

Have all the cameras you want, still got morons looking at them.


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## Slime (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Whilst it was stupid from jiminez, it was *equally poor from Moss on both cards.*

Click to expand...

I thought the first was maybe a bit harsh, but the ref had no choice with the second yellow.
Jiminez was plain stupid.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 11, 2021)

Aubameyang left out of Arsenal squad due to disciplinary issues.
What a shambles 
Don’t know who’s to blame but Arsenal haven’t had a proper leader or captain for a decade or more.
Listening to White and Jordan yesterday and it seems there’s a lot going on behind the scenes.


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## Dando (Dec 11, 2021)

Nice to see jack grealish living up to his price tag 🤣🤣🤣


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## Slime (Dec 11, 2021)

The top three teams all winning with a penalty!
I bet that hasn't happened too often.
Hopefully we won't have to rely on a spot kick.
I'd also love to see Phil Jones make an appearance today, and I think I will.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			The top three teams all winning with a penalty!
I bet that hasn't happened too often.
Hopefully we won't have to rely on a spot kick.
I'd also love to see Phil Jones make an appearance today, and I think I will.
		
Click to expand...

The Man City penalty is the only one I've seen and to me it looked generous. BBC Sport text described the Chelsea one as "soft" and also said that there was a challenge by Allison on the Villa player that "should've been a penalty". Will be interesting to see them later to make my own mind up but it seems that the top three have all benefitted from refereeing decisions when it comes to penalties being given or not given.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			The Man City penalty is the only one I've seen and to me it looked generous. BBC Sport text described the Chelsea one as "soft" and also said that there was a challenge by Allison on the Villa player that "should've been a penalty". Will be interesting to see them later to make my own mind up but it seems that the top three have all benefitted from refereeing decisions when it comes to penalties being given or not given.
		
Click to expand...

The ones I have seen 

Man City - never a penalty and should have been overturned by VAR 

Chelsea - soft , but you don’t expect VAR to overturn 

Liverpool - the same , soft but not clear abd obvious and Allison took a swipe for the ball missed and got the player - very surprised VAR didn’t intervene


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			The Man City penalty is the only one I've seen and to me it looked generous. BBC Sport text described the Chelsea one as "soft" and also said that there was a challenge by Allison on the Villa player that "should've been a penalty". Will be interesting to see them later to make my own mind up but it seems that the top three have all benefitted from refereeing decisions when it comes to penalties being given or not given.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like Alisson had another nightmare today.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sounds like Alisson had another nightmare today.
		
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A mate just sent me this screenshot. Obviously need to see the actual footage but from this it should've been a penalty....


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## pokerjoke (Dec 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sounds like Alisson had another nightmare today.
		
Click to expand...

Yep
Nowhere near the best in the world


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			The Man City penalty is the only one I've seen and to me it looked generous. BBC Sport text described the Chelsea one as "soft" and also said that there was a challenge by Allison on the Villa player that "should've been a penalty". Will be interesting to see them later to make my own mind up but it seems that the top three have all benefitted from refereeing decisions when it comes to penalties being given or not given.
		
Click to expand...

Generous is an understatement.

I've been waiting to see a goal scored with the armpit since Firmino had a goal ruled offside with an armpit. Its almost impossible for a ball to hit the armpit without hitting the arm. Handball has to be deliberate for pens to be given.

I was right inline with the Alison one and dont think it was a pen.

If Goalkeepers can be challenged in the box, ie Alisson v West ham,  then Goal keepers should be able to challenge strikers/outfield players. Strikers need to be stronger😉

Attwell is a disgrace of a referee.

He mustve seen Jonathon Moss' performance at City today and tried to do one better.

A proper hold my beer ome.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			A mate just sent me this screenshot. Obviously need to see the actual footage but from this it should've been a penalty....






Click to expand...

That looks to me like Alisson's hands are behind Ings. 

That said, Ings should've done better with that situation. Instead going down, If he stays on his feet he scores. 100%


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			That looks to me like Alisson's hands are behind Ings.

That said, Ings should've done better with that situation. Instead going down, If he stays on his feet he scores. 100%
		
Click to expand...

Player in "going down too easily" shock. As I said, I've not seen it so can only say what was on BBC Sport test and that screenshot. Looks like he's grabbed him with his left hand and tripped him with his right but happy to wait until I've seen it later for confirmation or otherwise.


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			The top three teams all winning with a penalty!
I bet that hasn't happened too often.
Hopefully we won't have to rely on a spot kick.
I'd also love to see Phil Jones make an appearance today, and I think I will.
		
Click to expand...


what minute would you like yours


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			what minute would you like yours 

Click to expand...

73rd lol


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## Slime (Dec 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			The top three teams all winning with a penalty!
*I bet that hasn't happened too often.
Hopefully we won't have to rely on a spot kick.*
I'd also love to see Phil Jones make an appearance today, and I think I will.
		
Click to expand...

Who'd have thought?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

If Villa wouldve put as much effort in trying to score as they did time wasting they mightve got something out of the game.

It was amazing how it all stopped from the keeper when they went 1 nil down.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			what minute would you like yours 

Click to expand...

Who had 72nd minute in the sweepstake?


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## Slime (Dec 11, 2021)




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## Blue in Munich (Dec 11, 2021)

Slime said:



			The top three teams all winning with a penalty!
I bet that hasn't happened too often.
*Hopefully we won't have to rely on a spot kick.*
I'd also love to see Phil Jones make an appearance today, and I think I will.
		
Click to expand...


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			If Villa wouldve put as much effort in trying to score as they did time wasting they mightve got something out of the game.

It was amazing how it all stopped from the keeper when they went 1 nil down.
		
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Timekeeper.  said it before & I'll say it again, take it away from the referee.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

Damn i had 75🤣


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Arsenal the only side out of 6 so far to not need a penalty to win their game this weekend


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## Billysboots (Dec 11, 2021)

United rather got away with that one.


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

*The xG Philosophy* @xGPhilosophy
11s


Today’s Premier League matches: Penalties (4.62) 6-5 (11.15) Non-Penalties


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			Arsenal the only side out of 6 so far to not need a penalty to win their game this weekend 

Click to expand...

Is there a trophy for this?


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Is there a trophy for this?
		
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think youll find the trophies go to those given the pens


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Timekeeper.  said it before & I'll say it again, take it away from the referee.
		
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My only concern is it'll make the game longer and make it like American football.

As we've experienced with VAR, the delay in the ground and the guess work is painful. 

That said itll be perfect for the telly clapper and twitter watchers😉


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			My only concern is it'll make the game longer and make it like American football.

As we've experienced with VAR, the delay in the ground and the guess work is painful.

That said itll be perfect for the telly clapper and twitter watchers😉
		
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Good to see youre coming round to the fact us telly clappers are more important Stu  Still makes it a better option than whats going on currently.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			think youll find the trophies go to those given the pens 

Click to expand...

Yernited dont win trophies 😉


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yernited dont win trophies 😉
		
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Shame, was looking forward to seeing the squirrell hoist a trophy


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			Good to see youre coming round to the fact us telly clappers are more important Stu  Still makes it a better option than whats going on currently.
		
Click to expand...

Catch up steve, we identified this last week. 

Refs keeping times isnt an issue, refs not controlling games is the issue. 

A timekeeper doesnt stop time wasting as the clock would be off when the ball is dead ie; goal kicks corners etc 

For example Martinez was warned twice, Mings was told to have  aword and on the 4th occasion he was about to be booked, Atwell bottled it and told him again. 

That's without the minutes wasted inbetween these.


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Catch up steve, we identified this last week.

Refs keeping times isnt an issue, refs not controlling games is the issue.

A timekeeper doesnt stop time wasting as the clock would be off when the ball is dead ie; goal kicks corners etc

For example Martinez was warned twice, Mings was told to have  aword and on the 4th occasion he was about to be booked, Atwell bottled it and told him again.

That's without the minutes wasted inbetween these.
		
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not sure controlling the game is possible for most of the current cast of misfits on the refs panel lol

clearly been a directive to reduce bookings for time wasting ,diving/cheating etc this year compared to last, not good for the game sadly, either for those at the game or us avidly clapping along at home


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## pokerjoke (Dec 11, 2021)

Woeful performance 
Someone really has to get a consistent tune out of these players.
If they all had Fred’s attitude that would be a good start.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Yernited dont win trophies 😉
		
Click to expand...

Neither do Arsenal


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Hanley was down for treatment for best part of 4 mins, plus then he was subbed, how much first half IT?


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			My only concern is it'll make the game longer and make it like American football.

As we've experienced with VAR, the delay in the ground and the guess work is painful.

That said itll be perfect for the telly clapper and twitter watchers😉
		
Click to expand...

But at least we should see a fixed amount of football.  At the moment it's anywhere between 53 minutes 34 seconds & 58 minutes 31 seconds averages (2017/18 Season, averages by ground).  And if they are averages, how little football can the lowest game get?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			not sure controlling the game is possible for most of the current cast of misfits on the refs panel lol

*clearly been a directive to reduce bookings for time wasting ,diving/cheating etc this year compared to last, *not good for the game sadly, either for those at the game or us avidly clapping along at home 

Click to expand...

Was there any such directive?🤔


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## Slime (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			Shame, was looking forward to seeing the squirrell hoist a trophy 

Click to expand...

Where there's life, there's hope ....................................... don't ever give up!


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Was there any such directive?🤔
		
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well theyre clearly reffing it differently, by coincidence?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			well theyre clearly reffing it differently, by coincidence?
		
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I'd say so. I honestly believe they're reffing to the tune of VAR


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd say so. I honestly believe they're reffing to the tune of VAR
		
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you dont think thats part of the directive?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			you dont think thats part of the directive?
		
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No. I dont think they've got a clue tbh judging whats gone for/against us this season.


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			No. I dont think they've got a clue tbh judging whats gone for/against us this season.
		
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im just a telly clapper, what do i know 😏


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			But at least we should see a fixed amount of football.  At the moment it's anywhere between 53 minutes 34 seconds & 58 minutes 31 seconds averages (2017/18 Season, averages by ground).  And if they are averages, how little football can the lowest game get?
		
Click to expand...

Time wasting is part of the dark arts. We've lost lots of stuff on football. We cant lose that aswell. 

What can be done though is referees consistantly get a grip of it. They dont as you well know. 

Same as cheating. If its not a foul then book them for diving. It will eventually stop.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			im just a telly clapper, what do i know 😏
		
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More than the match going fan apparently🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			More than the match going fan apparently🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...


not possible as youve told us more than once


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

fundy said:



			not possible as youve told us more than once 

Click to expand...

I'm obsessed apparently😄😄

Anyway i'm off to crack a bottle of red😉


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm obsessed apparently😄😄

Anyway i'm off to crack a bottle of red😉
		
Click to expand...

Make sure you come back later for the discussion over whether Salah dived to win the penalty today.


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm obsessed apparently😄😄

Anyway i'm off to crack a bottle of red😉
		
Click to expand...


Enjoy  glass of white or two plse 

One thing re directives, if its not coming from that why do refs perform very differently in different comps


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## fundy (Dec 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Make sure you come back later for the discussion over whether Salah dived to win the penalty today. 

Click to expand...


was a foul live, dived on the telly


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



*Time wasting is part of the dark arts*. We've lost lots of stuff on football. We cant lose that aswell.

What can be done though is referees consistantly get a grip of it. They dont as you well know.

Same as cheating. If its not a foul then book them for diving. It will eventually stop.
		
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Time wasting is as much cheating as diving.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1469728075113979908
👏👏👏👏😂😂😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Dec 11, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Woeful performance
Someone really has to get a consistent tune out of these players.
If they all had Fred’s attitude that would be a good start.
		
Click to expand...

Rashford was horrific. I wonder if he has the equivalent of dartitis for darts players, or the yips for golfers. It is like he gets into a dangerous position, and then can't kick a ball. He just lets it roll and then falls over. No effort once he loses ball, just head down.

Mind you, Bruno poor yet again. Need someone like him to control possession, but he just gives it away.

Still, Utd were never going to suddenly be fantastic once Rangnick came in. So at least they got 3 points. It'll be interesting how he deals with today's performance.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Rashford was horrific. I wonder if he has the equivalent of dartitis for darts players, or the yips for golfers. It is like he gets into a dangerous position, and then can't kick a ball. He just lets it roll and then falls over. No effort once he loses ball, just head down.

Mind you, Bruno poor yet again. Need someone like him to control possession, but he just gives it away.

Still, Utd were never going to suddenly be fantastic once Rangnick came in. So at least they got 3 points. It'll be interesting how he deals with today's performance.
		
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Rashford seems to get a free pass.
He’s bang average,can’t even play the “potential” card anymore at 24.
I can’t see Utd seriously challenging for the title for the next 5yr.


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## Billysboots (Dec 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Rashford was horrific. I wonder if he has the equivalent of dartitis for darts players, or the yips for golfers. It is like he gets into a dangerous position, and then can't kick a ball. He just lets it roll and then falls over. No effort once he loses ball, just head down.
		
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One of the most overrated players ever to wear the shirt. Not that long ago the price tag of £130m was ridiculously being talked about in relation to Rashford. If any club was daft enough to offer even half that I would rip their arm off.

Others will mention his stats. I just say watch him. He is absolutely bloody infuriating.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 11, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			One of the most overrated players ever to wear the shirt. Not that long ago the price tag of £130m was ridiculously being talked about in relation to Rashford. If any club was daft enough to offer even half that I would rip their arm off.

Others will mention his stats. I just say watch him. He is absolutely bloody infuriating.
		
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Him & Lingard have robbed a living.
They’ll probably be playing for Newcastle next season on £300k p wk.


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## Billysboots (Dec 11, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Him & Lingard have robbed a living.
They’ll probably be playing for Newcastle next season on £300k p wk.
		
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When Cavani is fit Rashford will be on the bench. 

I just get the feeling with Rangnick that he will not suffer players who are either not good enough or who don’t pull their weight. Rashford fell well into both categories today. There was one moment in the first half when he gave the ball away about thirty yards out and just stood there, arms outstretched, and made no effort to redeem himself. It was like watching an U11’s striker who thinks it’s beneath him to defend.

in the last dozen or so years we have seen a number of young players come through the ranks, make really promising starts to their careers, and then their progress stalls. Rashford is the latest example, and his supporters can no longer keep banging on about injuries. He simply isn’t good enough.

He would not get regular starts at Chelsea, Liverpool or City. If United want to compete with those sides consistently Rashford should not get regular starts with us. I think Rangnick will take a good look at his players in the next few weeks and then we’ll start seeing him stamp his mark.


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## 4LEX (Dec 11, 2021)

Rashford has been playing injured for years and has taken his eye off the game football wise. Worringly he looks to have lost his pace and that was what made him so good. Without that he's not the same player. 

Utd were woeful and I still can't understand the logic behind appointing Rangnick. He's a manager who builds clubs up with young players through intense coaching and even then, he's hardly won a trophy. No proper big club has touched him and he was on the scrapheap im Russia about to retire. He's not suited to installing a total change of style mid way through a season with players that have big egos and have been allowed to become lazy for a few years. His style is narrow and Utd have always been about wingers. 

Klopp and the others might have learnt their style under him years ago but the difference is they added more to it and have left him behind.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2021)

Man City penalty - never a penalty.
Liverpool penalty - tangle of legs and a penalty.
Chelsea 2nd penalty - soft but a foul and a penalty.
Villa non penalty - not convinced there was enough in it. If it goes against you you're not happy but if it's your team you're screaming for it.
Man Utd penalty - absolutely no chance that Pukki would've been given it at Old Trafford.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Make sure you come back later for the discussion over whether Salah dived to win the penalty today. 

Click to expand...

I'm back👋👋


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Rashford was horrific. I wonder if he has the equivalent of dartitis for darts players, or the yips for golfers. It is like he gets into a dangerous position, and then can't kick a ball. He just lets it roll and then falls over. No effort once he loses ball, just head down.

*Mind you, Bruno poor yet again. Need someone like him to control possession, but he just gives it away.*

Still, Utd were never going to suddenly be fantastic once Rangnick came in. So at least they got 3 points. It'll be interesting how he deals with today's performance.
		
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Definition of a one season wonder😆


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Man City penalty - never a penalty.
Liverpool penalty - tangle of legs and a penalty.
Chelsea 2nd penalty - soft but a foul and a penalty.
Villa non penalty - not convinced there was enough in it. If it goes against you you're not happy but if it's your team you're screaming for it.
Man Utd penalty - *absolutely no chance that Pukki would've been given it at Old Trafford*.
		
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The scream from Ronaldo made it🤣


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The scream from Ronaldo made it🤣
		
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That's a bit unfair Stu. We all know how painful it is when a mate comes up and puts his arm round your shoulder. We'd all let out a scream in those circumstances. 😂


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## adam6177 (Dec 11, 2021)

Just watching Motd and cannot believe my eyes with the penalties awarded in the Chelsea and man city games.  Absolute madness.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a bit unfair Stu. We all know how painful it is when a mate comes up and puts his arm round your shoulder. We'd all let out a scream in those circumstances. 😂
		
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😆For such a big strong well built fella, his balance is awful. Messi would've  wriggled out of it.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Time wasting is as much cheating as diving.
		
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No its not. 

Diving is a part of the world game unfortunately. Its upto the officials to stamp it out.

Time wasting is really easy to police, somehow our refs make it look impossible.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2021)

Think the Villa non pen.
Very sneaky push in Matips back by Ings .
But Alison got his hand on the ball.

Var shocking for City pen they had all the angles to see it hit him in the ribs.
Just another one where they won’t go against the ref ,even when it’s an obvious error.


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## 4LEX (Dec 12, 2021)

Jon Moss upto his old tricks, too unfit to get himself in good positions. The City pen was harsh but he missed a clear one in the first half. Added on 7 minutes and even though there was a red card and a 3 minute delay blew up after 7 mins 30. The worst of a bad bunch.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 12, 2021)

Sure I seen an Arsenal player block a free kick about 2 yds away against Everton midweek .
Mike Dean clearly said to the Everton player .” It’s your own fault for taking it” when they complained he wasn’t 10 yds away.
But Himenez ( rightly so ) gets a yellow.
So which one is it ? The inconsistency is really poor.

VAR just backing their mates all day today.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Jon Moss upto his old tricks, too unfit to get himself in good positions. The City pen was harsh but he missed a clear one in the first half. Added on 7 minutes and even though there was a red card and a 3 minute delay blew up after 7 mins 30. *The worst of a bad bunch*.
		
Click to expand...

No, there's worse. 

Stuart Attwell, by a considerable distance. I wouldnt let him ref my lads futsal game.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sure I seen an Arsenal player block a free kick about 2 yds away against Everton midweek .
Mike Dean clearly said to the Everton player .” It’s your own fault for taking it” when they complained he wasn’t 10 yds away.
But Himenez ( rightly so ) gets a yellow.
So which one is it ? The inconsistency is really poor.

VAR just backing their mates all day today.
		
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VAR cannot review Yellow Cards.

So in the Jimenez incident it’s irrelevant, not sure why you think VAR are just backing their mates in this.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			VAR cannot review Yellow Cards.

So in the Jimenez incident it’s irrelevant, not sure why you think VAR are just backing their mates in this.
		
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Its mad how people still cant grasp how VAR works🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Its mad how people still cant grasp how VAR works🤦🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Or doesn't work as the case may be.  

Although in fairness to VAR, some basic anatomy training might help to distinguish the difference between an arm & a ribcage...


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 12, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Or doesn't work as the case may be.  

Although in fairness to VAR, some basic anatomy training might help to distinguish the difference between an arm & a ribcage... 

Click to expand...

It's been obvious for a while now that they don't know their @r5e from their elbow. 👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Or doesn't work as the case may be.  

Although in fairness to VAR, some basic anatomy training might help to distinguish the difference between an arm & a ribcage... 

Click to expand...

Plenty of issues and areas were VAR could be improved, but, since it was brought in it’s never been in its remit to get involved in yellow cards.

We could focus on were it needs improving if some fans undersood better how it is currently meant to work.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 12, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Jon Moss upto his old tricks, too unfit to get himself in good positions. The City pen was harsh but he missed a clear one in the first half. Added on 7 minutes and even though there was a red card and a 3 minute delay blew up after 7 mins 30. The worst of a bad bunch.
		
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As a previous season ticket holder. Do I miss going to the games. Not one bit. VAR has killed the game. 
Re VAR. Match officials were brought into help officials run the game. They were screaming out for help. It was supposed to help with the cheating, diving, offside. It was supposed to help in stopping horrendous referees making horrendous decisions. 
So who policies VAR, horrendous referees. Some of the decisions yesterday were a complete joke including Citys awarded penalty. Yet no mention re the nailed on one until now. Both clear and obvious VAR mistakes. My lad thinks the officials knew at half time they have screwed up and gave a soft penalty “ to level “ it up. How does two wrongs make a right


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

For me, the standard of refereeing has become worse than previous seasons since VAR has been introduced. 

The idea that a ref would look at a screen and come to the correct decision was a fairytale. 

Refereeing has changed to suit VAR. Of that i'm certain.

Its the operators of the tech and not the tech that's the issue.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			As a previous season ticket holder. Do I miss going to the games. Not one bit. VAR has killed the game.
Re VAR. Match officials were brought into help officials run the game. *They were screaming out for help*. It was supposed to help with the cheating, diving, offside. It was supposed to help in stopping horrendous referees making horrendous decisions.
So who policies VAR, horrendous referees. Some of the decisions yesterday were a complete joke including Citys awarded penalty. Yet no mention re the nailed on one until now. Both clear and obvious VAR mistakes. My lad thinks the officials knew at half time they have screwed up and gave a soft penalty “ to level “ it up. How does two wrongs make a right
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Tashy, they weren't. Thats what sky, the media and ex players where screaming for. It works in Rugby, Tennis and cricket was the line used to sell it.

If i remember correctly refs didnt want technology. Its blatantly obvious referees and liners are now micro managed and theyre led by one the worst refs in english football history. This not raising the flag for offside when they're blatantly off is a joke.

I agree VAR has ruined the game for the Match going fan.

Sorry Tashy what blatant pen in the 1st half are you talking about?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			For me, the standard of refereeing has become worse than previous seasons since VAR has been introduced.

The idea that a ref would look at a screen and come to the correct decision was a fairytale.

Refereeing has changed to suit VAR. Of that i'm certain.

*Its the operators of the tech and not the tech that's the issue.*

Click to expand...

It’s both Stu, the tech isn’t good enough for the offside decision, as has been proved by the fps issue and as you say the operators either compounding or completely missing mistakes.

Also is the lack of understanding by fans, @Tashyboy VAR’s remit is quite clear were it can and cannot get involved, therefore it was only ever going to help with the cheating or diving in certain situations were it was allowed.

It’s here to stay and maybe the current trial in to the semi-autonomous technology will help with the offside.

Also maybe the players/managers and pundits finally stop treating cheating as part of the game and do their bit to improve snd help the Officials.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s both Stu, the tech isn’t good enough for the offside decision, as has been proved by the fps issue and as you say the operators either compounding or completely missing mistakes.

Also is the lack of understanding by fans, @Tashyboy VAR’s remit is quite clear were it can and cannot get involved, therefore it was only ever going to help with the cheating or diving in certain situations were it was allowed.

*It’s here to stay and maybe the current trial in to the semi-autonomous technology will help with the offside.*

Also maybe the players/managers and pundits finally stop treating cheating as part of the game and do their bit to improve snd help the Officials.
		
Click to expand...

The tech is good enough, its how its used and interpreted. 

Problem with offside is, the rule has been changed to suit VAR, armpits and shirt sleeves etc.

It often gets spoken about the miniscule offside's like Richarlisons v Arsenal and how the goals like that should stand. 

Yet 2 or 3 seasons ago, those types of goals were being highlighted as offside, it could relegate a team or stop a team from winning a trophy etc were the cries.


No no no no and definitely no. 

We are so fixated on trying to get 100% accurate decisions.

When i say we i mean the media.

Remember when VAR was brought in, it was going to stop the controversy?? 

Where are we now?


----------



## Canary_Yellow (Dec 12, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a bit unfair Stu. We all know how painful it is when a mate comes up and puts his arm round your shoulder. We'd all let out a scream in those circumstances. 😂
		
Click to expand...

As a Norwich fan, I didn’t think ronaldo was fouled, but I think he did a nigh on perfect job of making it look like he was. There was no way VAR would intervene once given.

Aarons shouldn’t have given the ref a chance to give the decision as it was inevitable he would. 

As you say, we wouldn’t have been given that penalty if it was at the other end.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry Tashy, they weren't. Thats what sky, the media and ex players where screaming for. It works in Rugby, Tennis and cricket was the line used to sell it.

If i remember correctly refs didnt want technology. Its blatantly obvious referees and liners are now micro managed and theyre led by one the worst refs in english football history. This not raising the flag for offside when they're blatantly off is a joke.

I agree VAR has ruined the game for the Match going fan.

Sorry Tashy what blatant pen in the 1st half are you talking about?
		
Click to expand...

the one where the ball was crossed defender leans into ball trying to get his arm out of the way and failed.It hit him plumb on the arm. It was on the stroke of half time. It never went to VAR as the ref blew for half time. They mentioned it on MOTD.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s both Stu, the tech isn’t good enough for the offside decision, as has been proved by the fps issue and as you say the operators either compounding or completely missing mistakes.

Also is the lack of understanding by fans, @Tashyboy VAR’s remit is quite clear were it can and cannot get involved, therefore it was only ever going to help with the cheating or diving in certain situations were it was allowed.

It’s here to stay and maybe the current trial in to the semi-autonomous technology will help with the offside.

Also maybe the players/managers and pundits finally stop treating cheating as part of the game and do their bit to improve snd help the Officials.
		
Click to expand...

What I cannot get my head around re VAR. We have had it at Major international comps and there hardly seems to be any controversy re   VAR. Why is that ?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The tech is good enough, its how its used and interpreted.

Problem with offside is, the rule has been changed to suit VAR, armpits and shirt sleeves etc.

It often gets spoken about the miniscule offside's like Richarlisons v Arsenal and how the goals like that should stand.

Yet 2 or 3 seasons ago, those types of goals were being highlighted as offside, it could relegate a team or stop a team from winning a trophy etc were the cries.


No no no no and definitely no.

We are so fixated on trying to get 100% accurate decisions.

When i say we i mean the media.

Remember when VAR was brought in, it was going to stop the controversy??

Where are we now?
		
Click to expand...

The tech isn’t good enough and that’s why your paragraph on the offside prove it, the tech can’t keep up with the speed of the game, if it was good enough there’d of been no debate over it.

You may also be contradicting yourself over us being fixated on trying to get 100% accurate decisions, it’s because of the implications of getting it wrong, ie relegation, promotion, success or failure.

I believe the biggest issue is consistencey, it would be great if the Refs could be shown 2 identical differences and explain why we get different decisions.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			What I cannot get my head around re VAR. We have had it at Major international comps and there hardly seems to be any controversy re   VAR. Why is that ?
		
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Well it can’t he the Refs if ours are used at the big Comps.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The tech isn’t good enough and that’s why your paragraph on the offside prove it, the tech can’t keep up with the speed of the game, if it was good enough there’d of been no debate over it.

*You may also be contradicting yourself over us being fixated on trying to get 100% accurate decisions, it’s because of the implications of getting it wrong, ie relegation, promotion, success or failure.*

I believe the biggest issue is consistencey, it would be great if the Refs could be shown 2 identical differences and explain why we get different decisions.
		
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Problem with offside and the lines is theres always going to be  really tight close ones.

I don't agree. Success and failure isnt down to referees decisions. There's 38 games a season to make sure you're winners or relegated.

Cast your mind back to when Phelan kicked one from behind the  line for your lot  v bolton and it was 3ft behind the line. Bolton went down that season, not because of that one decision, because they never did enough in the ogher 37 games.

The league winners earn the trophy over 38 games, likewise those who are relegated don't do enough. Its that simple.

Consistency is down to the refs themselves. I agree with you on that though. 

We wont see Moss give a yellow everytime someone stops a quick frekick again. Attwell never yesterday and i'll gaurantee the other refs never in the other PL games too.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Well it can’t he the Refs if ours are used at the big Comps.
		
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There wasnt one English ref at the last world cup iirc.


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## fundy (Dec 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			What I cannot get my head around re VAR. We have had it at Major international comps and there hardly seems to be any controversy re   VAR. Why is that ?
		
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problems with it in plenty of comps other than the prem league, watched one in Europe the other day where they took 6 mins to make a decision, got it wrong then blew the FT whistle straight after it! also they dont show the offsides with lines to explain the decisions as do here. dont be fooled its only our refs that cant use it, theres others who are as bad and/or worse, part of which for me comes down to how they are being instructed to use it (either by their own body or the football authorities)


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			the one where the ball was crossed defender leans into ball trying to get his arm out of the way and failed.It hit him plumb on the arm. It was on the stroke of half time. It never went to VAR as the ref blew for half time. They mentioned it on MOTD.
		
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 If its the Kilman one where he had his arms strapped to the side of his body, im not having that as a pen neither for nor against. We need to get away from cheap pens that have been wrongly given for the last 15+yrs or more.

If VAR thought it was wrong they couldve restarted play and gave a pen like they did earlier in the season for Yernited.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			VAR cannot review Yellow Cards.

So in the Jimenez incident it’s irrelevant, not sure why you think VAR are just backing their mates in this.
		
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I never said VAR was involved with the Himenez booking.
Read the post properly , it’s another paragraph.
I was also commentating how crap VAR was all day.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry Tashy, they weren't. Thats what sky, the media and ex players where screaming for. It works in Rugby, Tennis and cricket was the line used to sell it.

If i remember correctly refs didnt want technology. Its blatantly obvious referees and liners are now micro managed and theyre led by one the worst refs in english football history. This not raising the flag for offside when they're blatantly off is a joke.

I agree VAR has ruined the game for the Match going fan.

Sorry Tashy what blatant pen in the 1st half are you talking about?
		
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Bollocks, lots of match going fans wanted it as well.

That said, we didnt know the pigs ear (or ribcage), that they would make of it.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Problem with offside and the lines is theres always going to be  really tight close ones.

I don't agree. Success and failure isnt down to referees decisions. There's 38 games a season to make sure you're winners or relegated.

Cast your mind back to when Phelan kicked one from behind the  line for your lot  v bolton and it was 3ft behind the line. Bolton went down that season, not because of that one decision, because they never did enough in the ogher 37 games.

The league winners earn the trophy over 38 games, likewise those who are relegated don't do enough. Its that simple.

Consistency is down to the refs themselves. I agree with you on that though.

We wont see Moss give a yellow everytime someone stops a quick frekick again. Attwell never yesterday and i'll gaurantee the other refs never in the other PL games too.
		
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What about when Kompany should have been sent off for city against us the other year and they went on to win 2-1?

A proper 6 pointer and we lost the league by one point.

You're right in the main, but these things can happen.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s both Stu, the tech isn’t good enough for the offside decision, as has been proved by the fps issue and as you say the operators either compounding or completely missing mistakes.

Also is the lack of understanding by fans, @Tashyboy VAR’s remit is quite clear were it can and cannot get involved, therefore it was only ever going to help with the cheating or diving in certain situations were it was allowed.

It’s here to stay and maybe the current trial in to the semi-autonomous technology will help with the offside.

Also maybe the players/managers and pundits finally stop treating cheating as part of the game and do their bit to improve snd help the Officials.
		
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I think he has got it woefully wrong.

It may not reward the cheating and diving as they can see if someone dived for a pen and not give one or overturn one, but it doesnt help them then give a yellow for the blatant dive, as they can't use it for yellows.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			If its the Kilman one where he had his arms strapped to the side of his body, im not having that as a pen neither for nor against. We need to get away from cheap pens that have been wrongly given for the last 15+yrs or more.

If VAR thought it was wrong they couldve restarted play and gave a pen like they did earlier in the season for Yernited.
		
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So he tries to pull his arm out of the way and he doesn’t, it hits his arm and it’s not a penalty. We listen to the pros who say the penalty is not a penalty, then ignore the pros who say it is a penalty.


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## Jensen (Dec 12, 2021)

Maddison you cheat, that’s never a penalty


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## Tashyboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Maddison you cheat, that’s never a penalty
		
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VAR will sort it.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Bollocks, *lots of match going fans wanted it* as well.

That said, *we didnt know the pigs ear (or ribcage), that they would make of it*.
		
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This. All day long & twice on Sundays.  With bells & tinsel on it.


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## Billysboots (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Bollocks, lots of match going fans wanted it as well.

That said, we didnt know the pigs ear (or ribcage), that they would make of it.
		
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And a pigs ear it has been. It’s particularly infuriating at grounds like Old Trafford, where the absence of a big screen anywhere in the ground means fans can be left for several minutes not having a clue what is being reviewed. They are left guessing by the whole process until they get home and see it on TV.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 12, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			And a pigs ear it has been. It’s particularly infuriating at grounds like Old Trafford, where the absence of a big screen anywhere in the ground means fans can be left for several minutes not having a clue what is being reviewed. They are left guessing by the whole process until they get home and see it on TV.
		
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If it's at Old Trafford then everyone in the ground knows which way the decision will go. That's why they don't bother with a screen 😆


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## Billysboots (Dec 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If it's at Old Trafford then everyone in the ground knows which way the decision will go. That's why they don't bother with a screen 😆
		
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Good point. 😎


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## GG26 (Dec 12, 2021)

Good to get a clean sheet, although I agree that Maddison was on the way down and looked for the contact for the penalty.  The good thing is that he’s got his mojo back over the past six weeks.

We need to get some centre backs back. We are missing five!  Evans off injured in the fifth minute, Amarty (covid), Vestergaard (covid), Justin (just had a slight setback but not far from returning) & Fofana.  Still managed only our second clean sheet.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Problem with offside and the lines is theres always going to be  really tight close ones.

I don't agree. Success and failure isnt down to referees decisions. There's 38 games a season to make sure you're winners or relegated.

Cast your mind back to when Phelan kicked one from behind the  line for your lot  v bolton and it was 3ft behind the line. Bolton went down that season, not because of that one decision, because they never did enough in the ogher 37 games.

The league winners earn the trophy over 38 games, likewise those who are relegated don't do enough. Its that simple.

Consistency is down to the refs themselves. I agree with you on that though.

We wont see Moss give a yellow everytime someone stops a quick frekick again. Attwell never yesterday and i'll gaurantee the other refs never in the other PL games too.
		
Click to expand...

Stu, have a look at the links below, teams have benifitted by as much as 8 points over the last 2 seasons or lost up to 6 points, that amount can decide titles and who gets relegated, not forgetting qualification for CL & Europa League etc, you could be talking millions of pounds in some cases.

All the effort or lack of it over 38 games could count for nothing if Officials get it wrong once:

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...sions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...y-premier-league-club-in-2020-21?platform=amp


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Its mad how people still cant grasp how VAR works🤦🏼‍♂️
		
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If that’s aimed at me read my post properly !
Different paragraph different point.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			What about when Kompany should have been sent off for city against us the other year and they went on to win 2-1?

A proper 6 pointer and we lost the league by one point.

You're right in the main, but these things can happen.
		
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Dont start  with the whataboutery, we've benefitted from decisons too.

We had chances to win that particular game too. Ok Kompany goes off we have a better chance of winning but the game at home to Leicester and away at Arsenal are the games that still annoy me from that season.

We wouldn't have won the European Cup v Spurs had VVD been sent off v Napoli for the same sort of tackle. 

It happens, take responaibility for your own actions and accept it.

That season i dont think we could've done anything more than we did other than those 2 games if my memory serves  me right.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 12, 2021)

All of the positivity and momentum of the arsenal win currently being thrown away by a park your bus, not very well parked, performance at Selhurst Park against a team who had lost their last 2 😠


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## pokerjoke (Dec 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			All of the positivity and momentum of the arsenal win currently being thrown away by a park your bus, not very well parked, performance at Selhurst Park against a team who had lost their last 2 😠
		
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Benitez can’t be there much longer can he?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Bollocks, lots of match going fans wanted it as well.

That said, we didnt know the pigs ear (or ribcage), that they would make of it.
		
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Match going fans were in the minority of wanting VAR. 

Did you really believe these clowns in charge of refereeing would do any better with technology?

You know I called it from the beginning, its on here too.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Benitez can’t be there much longer can he?
		
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Hopefully this is the seaaon they go down.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Benitez can’t be there much longer can he?
		
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In the meantime we have scored...........

I think if we set up like this and lose, rinse, repeat, then no he won't last. I thought he would take the performance against arsenal and tell them to go at Palace. This has lost all of the upside of that game, so far. We shouldn't be parking the bus against anyone outside of the top 3


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## fundy (Dec 12, 2021)

Andy Madley another showing how bad prem league refs could be. Zaha couldve been booked 3 times so far, Madley not close to booking him


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## pauljames87 (Dec 12, 2021)

Should have had a pen today but I think the way he played today pope would have saved it

What a keeper

Some of those saves were breath taking


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## Fade and Die (Dec 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Should have had a pen today but I think the way he played today pope would have saved it

What a keeper

Some of those saves were breath taking
		
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We totally dominated but looked a bit toothless up front. Definite penalty though and I would have fancied Lanzini to beat Pope.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 12, 2021)

This Telly clapper didn’t want VAR and said it would ruin the sport 🙋🏻‍♂️


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2021)

The 3rd goal is a perfect example of why you can’t blame Benitez, Coleman trying to be clever and mess’s up.

Well played Palace, fully deserved.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Benitez can’t be there much longer can he?
		
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Hopefully give him at least 2 years, getting rid of him does us no good whatsoever.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If that’s aimed at me read my post properly !
Different paragraph different point.
		
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If it was aimed at you, i'd quote you.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This Telly clapper didn’t want VAR and said it would ruin the sport 🙋🏻‍♂️
		
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Even a stuck clock is right twice a day 🤷‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The 3rd goal is a perfect example of why you can’t blame Benitez, Coleman trying to be clever and mess’s up.

Well played Palace, fully deserved.
		
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From what i seen, Richarlison offered zilch today. Rondon changed the attacking threat, bit more luck/quality and its desmond.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			From what i seen, Richarlison offered zilch today. Rondon changed the attacking threat, bit more luck/quality and its desmond.
		
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Mate, we offered nothing, Rondon has finally got a goal, he is possibly the worst signing I’ve seen in over 20yrs and we’ve signed some absolute garbage in that time.

Lacking quality and we need luck, that’s how desperate it is, got some big relegation 6 pointers coming up over Christmas/New Year, those games could decide our season.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			From what i seen, Richarlison offered zilch today. Rondon changed the attacking threat, bit more luck/quality and its desmond.
		
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I think Everton offered zilch whilst Richarlison was on.
Possibly could of gone 2 upfront and kept him on.
Anyway Everton certainly on the slide infer Benitez


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## SteveW86 (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This Telly clapper didn’t want VAR and said it would ruin the sport 🙋🏻‍♂️
		
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You watch Twitter on your TV?


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Match going fans were in the minority of wanting VAR. 

Did you really believe these clowns in charge of refereeing would do any better with technology?

You know I called it from the beginning, its on here too.
		
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Spot on .
Imo it’s much worse as they use the tech to back up really bad decisions.

Talking of bad decisions how was Coleman not booked for the handball on the ground stopping a counter attack.?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The 3rd goal is a perfect example of why you can’t blame Benitez, Coleman trying to be clever and mess’s up.

Well played Palace, fully deserved.
		
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1st and 3rd were errors/giveaways but the way we set up was grim. That is his decision. 

We need continuity of manager for a time but we need to see more than that, 1st half in particular.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 12, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Talking of bad decisions how was Coleman not booked for the handball on the ground stopping a counter attack.?
		
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🤷‍♂️ put it in the end of season montage of decisions that don't make sense.


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## fundy (Dec 12, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			🤷‍♂️ put it in the end of season montage of decisions that don't make sense.
		
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add it to the fundy backed it and wants to know where his money is list lol


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I think Everton offered zilch whilst Richarlison was on.
Possibly could of gone 2 upfront and kept him on.
Anyway Everton certainly on the slide infer Benitez
		
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You may not agree nor understand when i say this but generally evertonians locally see everything through the lens of LFC.

They let LFC get to them more than you could ever imagine.

As their song goes "we dont care what the redshite say" but actually they do.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			You may not agree nor understand when i say this but generally evertonians locally see everything through the lens of LFC.

They let LFC get to them more than you could ever imagine.

As their song goes "we dont care what the redshite say" but actually they do.
		
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🎣🎣🎣🎣 “There she blows” 🐳🐳


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Dont start  with the whataboutery, we've benefitted from decisons too.

We had chances to win that particular game too. Ok Kompany goes off we have a better chance of winning but the game at home to Leicester and away at Arsenal are the games that still annoy me from that season.

We wouldn't have won the European Cup v Spurs had VVD been sent off v Napoli for the same sort of tackle.

It happens, take responaibility for your own actions and accept it.

That season i dont think we could've done anything more than we did other than those 2 games if my memory serves  me right.
		
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Accept your own actions and admit your wrong then. Leagues can be lost on one terrible decision.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Match going fans were in the minority of wanting VAR.

Did you really believe these clowns in charge of refereeing would do any better with technology?

You know I called it from the beginning, its on here too.
		
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Are you sure, I dont remember a referendum?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Accept your own actions and admit your wrong then. Leagues can be lost on one terrible decision.
		
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No they cant. The league is won over 38 games. Do you seriously believe we lost the league cos Kompany wasnt sent off?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are you sure, I dont remember a referendum?
		
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I canvassed up and down the country.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			🎣🎣🎣🎣 “There she blows” 🐳🐳
		
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Do you disagree?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			No they cant. The league is won over 38 games. Do you seriously believe we lost the league cos Kompany wasnt sent off?
		
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The league is won over 38 games, correct, but a terrible decision in one game that was a 6 pointer can also lose that league. Yes.

City and Liverpool probably won 28-32 games each in that season and a few of them games would have have had decisions go for and against both teams after that, BUT a massive decision in that major game went a long way to deciding the league. Kompany would have also missed the next 3 games, who knows what may have happened in them games also? Was the Leicester game one of them when he scored?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I canvassed up and down the country.
		
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Not at away games, I bet, eh, Davey Mac?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			The league is won over 38 games, correct, but a terrible decision in one game that was a 6 pointer can also lose that league. Yes.

City and Liverpool probably won 28-32 games each in that season and a few of them games would have have had decisions go for and against both teams after that, BUT a massive decision in that major game went a long way to deciding the league. Kompany would have also missed the next 3 games, who knows what may have happened in them games also? Was the Leicester game one of them when he scored?
		
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Can you remember the Arsenal away Leicester at home games? We lost 4 points we shouldve won.

You're sounding like an evertonian.......😉

Listen  that season was extraordainary. Its never been done before and its never been done since. Nor is it likely to be replicated.

Sometimes you need to hold your hands up and accept that sometimes you're beaten by the better person/team. 

Blaming Kompany not being sent off is poor. Piss poor.

We wont agree.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not at away games, I bet, eh, Davey Mac? 

Click to expand...

Does woodison count?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Can you remember the Arsenal away Leicester at home games? We lost 4 points we shouldve won.

You're sounding like an evertonian.......😉

Listen  that season was extraordainary. Its never been done before and its never been done since. Nor is it likely to be replicated.

Sometimes you need to hold your hands up and accept that sometimes you're beaten by the better person/team.

Blaming Kompany not being sent off is poor. Piss poor.

We wont agree.
		
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Not the Arsenal game, but can remember Robbo making a mistake just before half time which meant we ended up drawing instead of winning, yes.

We agree, it was extraordinary - an unusual situation when a league literally was potentially decided by one piss poor (to use your vernacular) decision.

I always have when beaten fair and squarely, but not for that one.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not the Arsenal game, but can remember Robbo making a mistake just before half time which meant we ended up drawing instead of winning, yes.

We agree, it was extraordinary - an unusual situation when a league literally was potentially decided by one piss poor (to use your vernacular) decision.

I always have when beaten fair and squarely, but not for that one.
		
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So instead of blaming Kompany, hold Robbo to resonsibility. It is allowed yer know. 

The league wasnt decided by that decision at city. The damage was done previous.  Evem then we were inmense that season.  I've said on here, we couldnt have done much more. 

Its funny you havent mentioned the VVD tackle on the half way line against Napoli which was just as bad but we went on to win the CL.🤷‍♂️

I know youre uswd to getging your own way Ped, but not this time mush. 

Go back and watch those 2 games i mentioned earlier. Win them we win league regardless of what happend at City.  Fact.  

Sky love a "that sending off has relegated xxxxxxx fc" but in reality the previous 25+games they've been piss poor uas relegated them.

We wont agree.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Where's all the diving experts????


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2021)

I dont have to go back and watch them.

Do you want to go through every decision in that season?

I agree with you that 999,999 times one decision wont majorly mean the difference between a league won or a relegation, but in a league season when 1 point decides it in a 98 vs 97 point season in a game when one side who wins it should have been down to 10 men, it did for me.

So I blame Robbo for us losing the league, have a word with yourself.

Why should I mention the VVD tackle - thats a cup game, different matter, its over a few games, not 38.

You come out with a statement, that is one of football's perennial cliches, and is correct 99.9% of the time, but not 100% of the time.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont have to go back and watch them.

Do you want to go through every decision in that season?

I agree with you that 999,999 times one decision wont majorly mean the difference between a league won or a relegation, but in a league season when 1 point decides it in a 98 vs 97 point season in a game when one side who wins it should have been down to 10 men, it did for me.

So I blame Robbo for us losing the league, have a word with yourself.

Why should I mention the VVD tackle - thats a cup game, different matter, its over a few games, not 38.

You come out with a statement, that is one of football's perennial cliches, and is correct 99.9% of the time, but not 100% of the time.
		
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Why not Ped? Cos its easier to blame Kompany/ref to suit your argument?

You know i"m right. Those games we should've won.

But If it makes you feel better blame  that kompany decision.

You wont blame Robbo but you'll blame the ref/Kompany? Really?

I know what i seen that season. It was Liverpools best seaon ever. By a country mile.

Theyre not beyond criticism though.


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## Jensen (Dec 12, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Should have had a pen today but I think the way he played today pope would have saved it

What a keeper

Some of those saves were breath taking
		
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I’ve just watched Match of the Day with baited anticipation of those saves, only to feel flat. They were pretty ordinary and nothing spectacular !


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 12, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Where's all the diving experts????
		
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Well they are not in the VAR studio that’s a cert.

Maddison that’s a dive ,defenders planted his foot before Maddison takes off.


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## Piece (Dec 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well they are not in the VAR studio that’s a cert.

Maddison that’s a dive ,defenders planted his foot before Maddison takes off.
		
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That was a Vardy-like manufactured "penalty"


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## Steve Wilkes (Dec 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The 3rd goal is a perfect example of why you can’t blame Benitez, Coleman trying to be clever and mess’s up.

Well played Palace, fully deserved.
		
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Coleman wasn't trying to be clever, its 93+ minutes on the clock and you have a free kick on you own corner flag, he thinks I know what i'll do, wait a minute for everyone to get into position or just try and get the ball up the other end before the whistle blows, 2-1 or 3-1 makes no difference got to throw caution to the wind


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2021)

Piece said:



			That was a Vardy-like manufactured "penalty"
		
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Yes he’s been paying attention in training.
Interesting the two “ pundits” on motd totally disagreed on it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			Coleman wasn't trying to be clever, its 93+ minutes on the clock and you have a free kick on you own corner flag, he thinks I know what i'll do, wait a minute for everyone to get into position or just try and get the ball up the other end before the whistle blows, 2-1 or 3-1 makes no difference got to throw caution to the wind
		
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He was imo, he’s near the corner flag, the attacker is 1 yard from him and again imo, he’s tried to rush the free kick, he wasn’t set and he miskicked it, all things he had control of, that would of took 10-20 seconds not a minute!
Maybe he should of shown that urgency at the beginning of the game.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 13, 2021)

A weekend dominated by terrible Peno decisions. But the forum fans will be happy because theyre all in favour of the big teams.

Id just like an unbias league to be honest. With refs that have a bit of training.....


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## pokerjoke (Dec 13, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			Coleman wasn't trying to be clever, its 93+ minutes on the clock and you have a free kick on you own corner flag, he thinks I know what i'll do, wait a minute for everyone to get into position or just try and get the ball up the other end before the whistle blows, 2-1 or 3-1 makes no difference got to throw caution to the wind
		
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I like Coleman ,but he can be feisty at times,sometimes too feisty.
I believe on this occasion he was trying to get the player booked,it went wrong for him and actually the player was so close he could have got injured or injured the player.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 13, 2021)

Jensen said:



			I’ve just watched Match of the Day with baited anticipation of those saves, only to feel flat. They were pretty ordinary and nothing spectacular !
		
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Match of the days editing is often awful 

Prob edited a few of them out 

It was a 0-0 draw they won't of shown much


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## sunshine (Dec 13, 2021)

First Spurs, now QPR v Sheff Utd is off tonight. This is just the start, think we are going to see a wave of games being called off over the next few weeks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			A weekend dominated by terrible Peno decisions. But the forum fans will be happy because theyre all in favour of the big teams.

Id just like an unbias league to be honest. With refs that have a bit of training.....
		
Click to expand...

When watching the match at the time it looked like we got fortunate and Villa were unlucky with their shout 

Watching MoTd later and both shouts were right - Mings caught Salah was clumsy and Alisson got a touch on the ball


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			A weekend dominated by terrible Peno decisions. But the forum fans will be happy because theyre all in favour of the big teams.

Id just like an unbias league to be honest. With refs that have a bit of training.....
		
Click to expand...

Whats the thoughts of the ref from the  villa fans on saturday? 

Re the pen in our game, Mings knew he'd fouled him, it was as clear as day. Still not having the foul on Danny Ings. Alisson gets a hand to the ball. If he stays on his feet he scores imo.

Would you believe me if i told you we've had 2 pens at home in 12months?


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## Bdill93 (Dec 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Whats the thoughts of the ref from the  villa fans on saturday?

Re the pen in our game, Mings knew he'd fouled him, it was as clear as day. Still not having the foul on Danny Ings. Alisson gets a hand to the ball. If he stays on his feet he scores imo.

Would you believe me if i told you we've had 2 pens at home in 12months?
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			When watching the match at the time it looked like we got fortunate and Villa were unlucky with their shout

Watching MoTd later and both shouts were right - Mings caught Salah was clumsy and Alisson got a touch on the ball
		
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Mings fouled! Not doubting that! And actually, our game played out fine in my eyes. Ings did have half a shout at a pen but Im not moaning about that. A great game by all accounts - im sure you enjoyed seeing your future managers football philosophy!


Calls in other games were shocking though gents... Peno United yet again....


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Mings fouled! Not doubting that! And actually, our game played out fine in my eyes. Ings did have half a shout at a pen but Im not moaning about that. A great game by all accounts - *im sure you enjoyed seeing your future managers football philosophy!*


Calls in other games were shocking though gents... Peno United yet again....
		
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Mings fouled 🤣🤣🤣🤣

10 men behind the ball, compact, little creativity and time wasting?? Nah i'll pass thanks.

It


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## Bdill93 (Dec 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Mings fouled! Not doubting that! And actually, our game played out fine in my eyes. Ings did have half a shout at a pen but Im not moaning about that. A great game by all accounts - im sure you enjoyed seeing your future managers football philosophy!


Calls in other games were shocking though gents... Peno United yet again....
		
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PS I love the fact you jumped to Liverpools defence before I even mentioned a team


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			PS I love the fact you jumped to Liverpools defence before I even mentioned a team 

Click to expand...

Default setting 🤷‍♂️😉


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## Bdill93 (Dec 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



*Mings fouled 🤣🤣🤣🤣*

10 men behind the ball, compact, little creativity and time wasting?? Nah i'll pass thanks.

It
		
Click to expand...

What are you on about? I agreed with you?

We held you to one goal - not from open play -  and had chances of our own... We would not have done that 3 weeks ago under Smith..


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



*What are you on about? I agreed with you?*

We held you to one goal - not from open play -  and had chances of our own... We would not have done that 3 weeks ago under Smith..
		
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Did you? I read it as you were saying Salah fouled Mings🤷‍♂️

I must've missed your chance's as i cant remember seeing any.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2021)

CL draw

Man Utd vs PSG
Chelsea vs Lille
Liverpool vs Salzburg
Man City vs Villarreal 
Real Madrid vs Benfica
Inter vs Ajax
Bayern vs Atletico
Sporting vs Juventus


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## Bdill93 (Dec 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Did you? I read it as you were saying Salah fouled Mings🤷‍♂️

I must've missed your chance's as i cant remember seeing any.
		
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You're banter..

How about when Watkins had VVD on absolute toast but then ohh... you just fouled him to stop the attack right by the box?

We gave you a better/ closer game than you've had in weeks in the prem and 2 weeks ago we were in 17th mate...


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## Bdill93 (Dec 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			CL draw

Man Utd vs PSG
Chelsea vs Lille
Liverpool vs Salzburg
Man City vs Villarreal
Real Madrid vs Benfica
Inter vs Ajax
Bayern vs Atletico
Sporting vs Juventus
		
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Great draw for the English sides. 

Hope Messi destroys Uniteds dreams


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			You're banter..

How about when Watkins had VVD on absolute toast but then ohh... you just fouled him to stop the attack right by the box?

We gave you a better/ closer game than you've had in weeks in the prem and 2 weeks ago we were in 17th mate... 

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with a tactical foul, are you classing that as a chance? 😉

Its mad how we see games differently.

Villa never looked like scoring, very compact, defensive and time wasting.  I couldnt accept that as giving us a game.

Wolves done the same last week, it must be  midlands thing😄

Btw there's nothing wrong with doing the above, theres no right or wrong way to play football.

Brighton gave us a game a few weeks ago. Completely different to Villa saturday.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Why not Ped? Cos its easier to blame Kompany/ref to suit your argument?

You know i"m right. Those games we should've won.

But If it makes you feel better blame  that kompany decision.

You wont blame Robbo but you'll blame the ref/Kompany? Really?

I know what i seen that season. It was Liverpools best seaon ever. By a country mile.

Theyre not beyond criticism though.
		
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I'm not saying they're beyond criticism, and not using anything to suit an argument.

Massive decision in a 6 pointer - 1 point difference.

We wont agree, have a good day.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2021)

There is to be a redraw of the CL last 16 draw

They forgot to put Man Utd in - understandable I guess 😁


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## Bdill93 (Dec 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Nothing wrong with a tactical foul, are you classing that as a chance? 😉

Its mad how we see games differently.

Villa never looked like scoring, very compact, defensive and time wasting.  I couldnt accept that as giving us a game.

Wolves done the same last week, it must be  midlands thing😄

Btw there's nothing wrong with doing the above, theres no right or wrong way to play football.

Brighton gave us a game a few weeks ago. Completely different to Villa saturday.
		
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But youre not taking into account the fact that that is our game. We play tight, high press and its effective. You didnt score in open play at all. Against a top 3 side chances come rarely and you need to capitalise when they do. Instead, Ings dived or you fouled us in positions when about to become dangerous. 

Against another team (Leicester, Brighton, Palace) it works a treat. And in the last 10 minutes against you we gave as much as we got.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



*Nothing wrong with a tactical foul,* are you classing that as a chance? 😉

Its mad how we see games differently.

Villa never looked like scoring, very compact, defensive and time wasting.  I couldnt accept that as giving us a game.

Wolves done the same last week, it must be  midlands thing😄

Btw there's nothing wrong with doing the above, theres no right or wrong way to play football.

Brighton gave us a game a few weeks ago. Completely different to Villa saturday.
		
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We’ll remember this the next time a player tactically dives to win a pen against yous!

Neither is about skill, just desperation to give their team an advantage.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ll remember this the next time a player tactically dives to win a pen against yous!

Neither is about skill, just desperation to give their team an advantage.

Click to expand...

Tactical fouls have a place in football.

Diving doesnt. 

2 complete different situations.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 13, 2021)

Theyre doing a CL re-draw 

Absolutely tin pot organisation


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## Foxholer (Dec 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ll remember this the next time a player tactically dives to win a pen against yous!
Neither is about skill, just desperation to give their team an advantage.

Click to expand...

And is pure cheating that should be punished to the max!


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## Swango1980 (Dec 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Theyre doing a CL re-draw

Absolutely tin pot organisation
		
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Not a good couple of days for sporting authorities it seems.


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## Piece (Dec 13, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Theyre doing a CL re-draw

Absolutely tin pot organisation
		
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FIA didn't like what they saw...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Tactical fouls have a place in football.

Diving doesnt.

2 complete different situations.
		
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Nope, both trying to gain an advantage by cheating, neither involves skill or trying to play football.

Both should be unacceptable and a Red Card imo.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 13, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Tactical fouls have a place in football.

Diving doesnt.

2 complete different situations.
		
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How are they different? Both are against the laws of the game, simple.

I don't see how one act is acceptable and the other not. You can't pick and choose your dark arts.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Nope, both trying to gain an advantage by cheating, neither involves skill or trying to play football.

Both should be unacceptable and a Red Card imo.
		
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It is often impossible to tell the difference between a "tactical foul" and a lazy, mistimed tackle. Good luck giving out red cards for that. Even diving, sometimes it is hard to judge if a player has purely dived, or simply lost balance when a defender has come piling in. Contact might have been avoided, but the player may have been bracing themselves for a crunching impact, and ultimately prepared to fall over on their own terms to avoid injury.

However, even if there is subjectivity over what was in the player's mind, the ref can often get away with booking a player for a dive or a tactical foul, if they did so in his opinion. If, however, the punishment was a red card instead of a yellow, I think it would be less likely a ref would actually punish players. Suddenly, a potential dive or tactical foul becomes a huge incident, and I don't think a ref would ever give a red unless they absolutely 100% know the player has intentionally tried to con him.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 13, 2021)

Let’s be honest here
Football is pathetic these days.
Players have become cheaters,divers,fakers more than ever before.
15 stone ripped athletes falling over when touched by the weight of a feather (every team).
Can’t remember the last time when I’ve seen an all out great game of football with both teams going at it fairly and squarely in the PL without some controversy.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Let’s be honest here
Football is pathetic these days.
Players have become cheaters,divers,fakers more than ever before.
15 stone ripped athletes falling over when touched by the weight of a feather (every team).
Can’t remember the last time when I’ve seen an all out great game of football with both teams going at it fairly and squarely in the PL without some controversy.
		
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Don't think their are that many 15 stoned footballers? I mean Antonio is prob our biggest and he is 13 stone 

The rest are light compared .. he's pure muscle


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## IanM (Dec 13, 2021)

15 stone? 13? 12?  Who cares?  The point stands.   Turn over to a game at random, there's a great chance the game is stopped while one of these "athletes" is feigning mortal wounding!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 13, 2021)

IanM said:



			15 stone? 13? 12?  Who cares?  The point stands.   Turn over to a game at random, there's a great chance the game is stopped while one of these "athletes" is feigning mortal wounding! 

Click to expand...

The authorities don't care tho and that causes the issue 

If Salah, sterling, Rooney back in day, Ronaldo etc would be banned for diving retrospective then it would get stamped out quickly 

Only 2 players in the premier League have. Naisse of Everton and lanzini of West ham. Nobodies for teams not in the title race so no affect to the rest of the league 

If Salah missed 3 games costing Liverpool the title you can bet sterling would be told cut it out


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## pokerjoke (Dec 13, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't think their are that many 15 stoned footballers? I mean Antonio is prob our biggest and he is 13 stone 

The rest are light compared .. he's pure muscle
		
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Funny that ,up against VVD the other week he looked an 8 stone weakling


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## pauljames87 (Dec 13, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Funny that ,up against VVD the other week he looked an 8 stone weakling
		
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Looked 20 stone lump to Allison tho


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It is often impossible to tell the difference between a "tactical foul" and a lazy, mistimed tackle. Good luck giving out red cards for that. Even diving, sometimes it is hard to judge if a player has purely dived, or simply lost balance when a defender has come piling in. Contact might have been avoided, but the player may have been bracing themselves for a crunching impact, and ultimately prepared to fall over on their own terms to avoid injury.

However, even if there is subjectivity over what was in the player's mind, the ref can often get away with booking a player for a dive or a tactical foul, if they did so in his opinion. If, however, the punishment was a red card instead of a yellow, I think it would be less likely a ref would actually punish players. Suddenly, a potential dive or tactical foul becomes a huge incident, and I don't think a ref would ever give a red unless they absolutely 100% know the player has intentionally tried to con him.
		
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Yes but what about hacking someone down from behind no intention of going for the ball. Only yellow ??
I have always said that should be red!
Anything else it’s up to the ref he’s in charge (allegedly)
But if he did use his red card at least VAR could check he has got it correct where with yellow he can’t!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The authorities don't care tho and that causes the issue

If Salah, sterling, Rooney back in day, Ronaldo etc would be banned for diving retrospective then it would get stamped out quickly

Only 2 players in the premier League have. Naisse of Everton and lanzini of West ham. Nobodies for teams not in the title race so no affect to the rest of the league

If Salah missed 3 games costing Liverpool the title you can bet sterling would be told cut it out
		
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I sort of agree, but, why is it always the authorities responsibility to sort it out? Yes they have a part to play, but surely the quickest way is for the players themselves to stop.

I’ve said it before and I know it’s not popular, but until you can take points off teams instead of fines etc the teams won’t take it serious.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2021)

Draw part 2

Red Bull Salzburg v Bayern Munich

Sporting Lisbon v Manchester City

Benfica v Ajax

Chelsea v Lille

Atletico Madrid v Manchester United

Villarreal v Juventus

Inter Milan v Liverpool

PSG v Real Madrid


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## Foxholer (Dec 13, 2021)

Can Mercedes bung Bayern Munich a few quid/DMs sponsorship?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 13, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I sort of agree, but, why is it always the authorities responsibility to sort it out? Yes they have a part to play, but surely the quickest way is for the players themselves to stop.

I’ve said it before and I know it’s not popular, but until you can take points off teams instead of fines etc the teams won’t take it serious.
		
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But points would again be the authorities sorting out the issue 

Only reason it falls on them is because people always look for a loophole or to gain advantage

Much like covid. If something isn't law a section of society won't follow advise .. it's just unfortunately human nature


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			But points would again be the authorities sorting out the issue

Only reason it falls on them is because people always look for a loophole or to gain advantage

Much like covid. If something isn't law a section of society won't follow advise .. it's just unfortunately human nature
		
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So a joint effort? It’s no good the authorities (possibly full of blokes who never played at the top level) coming with unworkable options that the Refs are inconsistent in applying and the players behaviour doesn’t change.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but what about hacking someone down from behind no intention of going for the ball. Only yellow ??
I have always said that should be red!
Anything else it’s up to the ref he’s in charge (allegedly)
But if he did use his red card at least VAR could check he has got it correct where with yellow he can’t!
		
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It happens rarely (that blatantly), but does on occasion. I have seen a red been given in that situation, especially if it causes the attacker to fall quite heavily (in comparison to a shirt tug which would typically be a yellow).

But, what if someone tugs someone's shirt, even when the attacker is still well within their own half. There is clearly no intent to win the ball, but would you give a red?

I think giving out harsher punishments can lead to unintended consequences. In any sport, where teams look for marginal gains, there is no doubt opposition players will try harder to get players sent off for such tame "tactical fouls". If red cards were given for niggly tactical fouls, and for dives / player goes down a bit easy, then you'd just have a game in which is less about football, and more about players shouting and screaming for the opposition to get punished (a direction the game has already gone in anyway).

Tactical fouls are certainly hard to judge. With the tactics Pep and Klopp play, their intention is to quickly close down opponents and unsettle their control of the ball. That will inevitable cause body contact. Sometimes they'll win the ball, sometimes they'll not and it will result in a foul. Some of these, or many of these incidents might be judged as tactical fouls, but I certainly wouldn't want straight red cards to be dished out. However, when you say "hacking down" an opponent, I take that to mean the type of sliding challenge that takes out an opponent in full flight. In that sense, I probably would be happy to give out red cards. I certainly have felt there have been occasions where a player has been lucky to get away with just a yellow.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It happens rarely (that blatantly), but does on occasion. I have seen a red been given in that situation, especially if it causes the attacker to fall quite heavily (in comparison to a shirt tug which would typically be a yellow).

But, what if someone tugs someone's shirt, even when the attacker is still well within their own half. There is clearly no intent to win the ball, but would you give a red?

I think giving out harsher punishments can lead to unintended consequences. In any sport, where teams look for marginal gains, there is no doubt opposition players will try harder to get players sent off for such tame "tactical fouls". If red cards were given for niggly tactical fouls, and for dives / player goes down a bit easy, then you'd just have a game in which is less about football, and more about players shouting and screaming for the opposition to get punished (a direction the game has already gone in anyway).

Tactical fouls are certainly hard to judge. With the tactics Pep and Klopp play, their intention is to quickly close down e hind no attempt for the ball is red all day long for me.opponents and unsettle their control of the ball. That will inevitable cause body contact. Sometimes they'll win the ball, sometimes they'll not and it will result in a foul. Some of these, or many of these incidents might be judged as tactical fouls, but I certainly wouldn't want straight red cards to be dished out. However, when you say "hacking down" an opponent, I take that to mean the type of sliding challenge that takes out an opponent in full flight. In that sense, I probably would be happy to give out red cards. I certainly have felt there have been occasions where a player has been lucky to get away with just a yellow.
		
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Yes totally agree.
There are many ways to stop a counter attack tactical pulling shirts or obstruction is fine by me .
But hack someone down from behind is a red all day for me.


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## fundy (Dec 13, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1470453639009521670


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2021)

PSG v Real Madrid looks very tasty. Can see it being two feisty encounters. Can't see Man United getting anything out of Atletico and no doubt they will engage in the dark arts, especially at home to seize the initiative


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2021)

PL bringing back emergency measures. https://www.skysports.com/football/...nce-release-of-weekly-figures-began-last-year


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2021)

Aubameyang stripped of the captaincy, supposedly for coming back late from a break. A big step from Arteta but it shows who is in charge. One for Arsenal fans, do you move him on in January, his form has dropped off a cliff and this suggests his attitude is off, or do you expect him to dig in to prove Arteta wrong?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 14, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			PL bringing back emergency measures. https://www.skysports.com/football/...nce-release-of-weekly-figures-began-last-year

Click to expand...

Doing something for the sake of doing it, the same emergency measures that saw players hug, hold Xmas parties (and other parties Mr walker) and getting hair cuts when the rest the country was banned from 

Will make zero difference


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## Bdill93 (Dec 14, 2021)

Norwich v AVFC this evening

The Dean Smith derby 

Should be 3 points and a W for the villa this.. but we will see! Footballs a funny old game! 

UTV


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Aubameyang stripped of the captaincy, supposedly for coming back late from a break. A big step from Arteta but it shows who is in charge. One for Arsenal fans, do you move him on in January, his form has dropped off a cliff and this suggests his attitude is off, or do you expect him to dig in to prove Arteta wrong?
		
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He's misfiring badly and on a stupidly high salary.....Who'd have him.....? 

I'd like him to step up and do what he's paid for, but somehow I think that is unlikely


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			He's misfiring badly and on a stupidly high salary.....Who'd have him.....?

I'd like him to step up and do what he's paid for, but somehow I think that is unlikely
		
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Am I right in thinking his contract is up at the end of the season? I guess you either suck it up until then or move him on, with you paying the bulk of his salary, just to get him away from the club.


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Aubameyang stripped of the captaincy, supposedly for coming back late from a break. A big step from Arteta but it shows who is in charge. One for Arsenal fans, do you move him on in January, his form has dropped off a cliff and this suggests his attitude is off, or do you expect him to dig in to prove Arteta wrong?
		
Click to expand...


how is this a big step for Arteta? hardly Aubameyangs first "offence" and yet more inconsistency from Arteta and those above. Be nice if he could consistently apply his supposedly unbreakable rules but he clearly applies them differently for different players

as for moving Aubam on, if Barca are stupid enough...........

(any chance he takes the rest of the over 25s in the squad with him)


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Am I right in thinking his contract is up at the end of the season? I guess you either suck it up until then or move him on, with you paying the bulk of his salary, just to get him away from the club.
		
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lol no its not, he signed a new one last summer until summer 2023, its other strikers that are (Laca and Nketiah)


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			He's misfiring badly and on a stupidly high salary.....Who'd have him.....?

I'd like him to step up and do what he's paid for, but somehow I think that is unlikely
		
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hes also very happy and comfy in london on all accounts.....


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			how is this a big step for Arteta? hardly Aubameyangs first "offence" and yet more inconsistency from Arteta and those above. Be nice if he could consistently apply his supposedly unbreakable rules but he clearly applies them differently for different players

as for moving Aubam on, if Barca are stupid enough...........

(any chance he takes the rest of the over 25s in the squad with him)
		
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A big step as in stripping your captain of the armband is quite a public statement. I don't follow Arsenal enough to know whether it is his first offence, others break them etc. Others may be subject simply to fines, Aubameyang presumably gets a fine plus this removed as it is symbolic.

I'm not defending Arteta per se, just looking in from outside.

Oops, the contract extension is a bummer for you guys. Do you think Arsenal and Everton have read the same manual on excessively high and long contracts?


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## pokerjoke (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Aubameyang stripped of the captaincy, supposedly for coming back late from a break. A big step from Arteta but it shows who is in charge. One for Arsenal fans, do you move him on in January, his form has dropped off a cliff and this suggests his attitude is off, or do you expect him to dig in to prove Arteta wrong?
		
Click to expand...

Obviously it’s difficult to comment as no -one is aware of the full picture.
I understand he has previous but imo all Arteta has done is make a bigger decide.
He’s on a long term contract and high wages but I think there’s teams out there that would snap him up.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A big step as in stripping your captain of the armband is quite a public statement. I don't follow Arsenal enough to know whether it is his first offence, others break them etc. Others may be subject simply to fines, Aubameyang presumably gets a fine plus this removed as it is symbolic.

I'm not defending Arteta per se, just looking in from outside.

Oops, the contract extension is a bummer for you guys. Do you think Arsenal and Everton have read the same manual on excessively high and long contracts? 

Click to expand...

I'm assuming there have been multiple incidents, things have looked frosty for a while.

However, generally, I think it is a big risk giving the captaincy to a player who frequently sports silly haircuts, Says to me their ego is the most important thing, and not the team


----------



## fundy (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A big step as in stripping your captain of the armband is quite a public statement. I don't follow Arsenal enough to know whether it is his first offence, others break them etc. Others may be subject simply to fines, Aubameyang presumably gets a fine plus this removed as it is symbolic.

I'm not defending Arteta per se, just looking in from outside.

Oops, the contract extension is a bummer for you guys. Do you think Arsenal and Everton have read the same manual on excessively high and long contracts? 

Click to expand...


maybe he'll stop giving it to awful choices, 3rd time lucky eh Mikel 

Using the same manual? Arsenal wrote it lol


----------



## fundy (Dec 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			maybe he'll stop giving it to awful choices, *3rd time lucky eh Mikel* 

Using the same manual? Arsenal wrote it lol
		
Click to expand...


maybe not lol, rumour is hes going to give it back to the last clown stripped of it


----------



## need_my_wedge (Dec 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			maybe not lol, rumour is hes going to give it back to the last clown stripped of it
		
Click to expand...



Funny, I wondered that when I hear the news.... flippin' hope not. Needs a fighter with passion, Tierney or Ramsdale please.


----------



## fundy (Dec 14, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:





Funny, I wondered that when I hear the news.... flippin' hope not. Needs a fighter with passion, Tierney or Ramsdale please.
		
Click to expand...


its when you see that you realise how bad the options are. expect he gives it to the aforementioned clown or lacazette lol

too soon for Ramsdale, not sure he sees Tierney the same way the fans do. the lack of options just confirms the lack of leaders in the club and the type of personnel theyve been recruiting for nigh on 10 years


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			its when you see that you realise how bad the options are. expect he gives it to the aforementioned clown or lacazette lol

too soon for Ramsdale, not sure he sees Tierney the same way the fans do. the lack of options just confirms the lack of leaders in the club and the type of personnel theyve been recruiting for nigh on 10 years 

Click to expand...

Adams was 2 years younger when he was made captain, that worked out pretty well. Ramsdale is infectious, and a great character, might work, but I'm not a fan of a GK being captain as their movement is limited.


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Adams was 2 years younger when he was made captain, that worked out pretty well. Ramsdale is infectious, and a great character, might work, but I'm not a fan of a GK being captain as their movement is limited.
		
Click to expand...


less about his age more about the fact hes only been at the club a few months for me


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## Neilds (Dec 14, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Adams was 2 years younger when he was made captain, that worked out pretty well. Ramsdale is infectious, and a great character, might work, *but I'm not a fan of a GK being captain as their movement is limited*.
		
Click to expand...

I think too much is made of being captain at football - what do they actually do during a game apart from call the coin toss?  You need 11 leaders on a pitch, irrespective of who is wearing the armband


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2021)

Neilds said:



			I think too much is made of being captain at football - what do they actually do during a game apart from call the coin toss?  You need 11 leaders on a pitch, irrespective of who is wearing the armband
		
Click to expand...

run before you can walk for Arsenal, were trying to find one leader and thats been impossible for years, 11 definitely a stretch too far for now


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 14, 2021)

Neilds said:



			I think too much is made of being captain at football - what do they actually do during a game apart from call the coin toss?  You need 11 leaders on a pitch, irrespective of who is wearing the armband
		
Click to expand...

I like a captain that is mouthy and gets to players if they need a kick up the backside, and gives a pat on the back when something good is done. A GK is restricted in that he can't just run over to have a word.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Adams was 2 years younger when he was made captain, that worked out pretty well. Ramsdale is infectious, and a great character, might work, but I'm not a fan of a GK being captain as their movement is limited.
		
Click to expand...

I disagree with this. As a keeper they actually get to see far more of the filed of play and can see movement off the ball as play builds. Plenty of top keepers have been captains


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I disagree with this. As a keeper they actually get to see far more of the filed of play and can see movement off the ball as play builds. Plenty of top keepers have been captains
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but too far away from their team mates to then influence.

They have been captain's but not necessarily good ones.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yes, but too far away from their team mates to then influence.

They have been captain's but not necessarily good ones.
		
Click to expand...

Didn't do the likes of Dino Zoff any harm


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2021)

add Max Aarons to the utter embarrassment list


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't do the likes of Dino Zoff any harm
		
Click to expand...

I can't remember watching him in games, although I would have done, to know if he was a good captain or not. Too long ago I'm afraid 😆. Being in a winning team doesn't necessarily mean you are a top captain.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't remember watching him in games, although I would have done, to know if he was a good captain or not. Too long ago I'm afraid 😆. Being in a winning team doesn't necessarily mean you are a top captain.
		
Click to expand...

Manuel Neuer of Germany. Got a few winners medals


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## adam6177 (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Being in a winning team doesn't necessarily mean you are a top captain.
		
Click to expand...

Jordan Henderson.... For what we've won over recent seasons I should love the guy and give him a free go on my Mrs...... But I just can't.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't remember watching him in games, although I would have done, to know if he was a good captain or not. Too long ago I'm afraid 😆. Being in a winning team doesn't necessarily mean you are a top captain.
		
Click to expand...

But these top teams don't just have these guys as a figurehead. There must be some merit


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59657231
no Salah 😂😂😂

Yet amazingly 5 Barcelona players 😂😂

And Alves 😂😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Manuel Neuer of Germany. Got a few winners medals
		
Click to expand...

Same answer as before.  

I wouldn't have a striker as captain either. You need someone who can reach everyone in the team and by sheer geography on a pitch neither the keeper or a cf can do that.

Incidentally, 2 names from the last 40-50 years means an awful lot of other winning captain's who played outfield 😉😆


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Same answer as before. 

I wouldn't have a striker as captain either. You need someone who can reach everyone in the team and by sheer geography on a pitch neither the keeper or a cf can do that.

Incidentally, 2 names from the last 40-50 years means an awful lot of other winning captain's who played outfield 😉😆
		
Click to expand...

Shearer?


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2021)

City been awesome against an awful Leeds side tonight. Must be a happy Tashy somewhere


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 14, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I disagree with this. As a keeper they actually get to see far more of the filed of play and can see movement off the ball as play builds. Plenty of top keepers have been captains
		
Click to expand...

In my opinion, it's not about what he can see, it's about his isolation from players he may need to talk to. He can't just run out of his area for a quick word when needed.


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			add Max Aarons to the utter embarrassment list
		
Click to expand...

I'm curious?


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 14, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			I'm curious?
		
Click to expand...

Went down injured blocking a shot as if it had smashed in the face or something, but it had actually hit his hand 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2021)

Pin-seeker said:



			Shearer?
		
Click to expand...

I'm quite happy that he helps to prove my point 😄. Toon fans worship him but most will admit he was not a good captain. 

It's clearly possible to search out winning captain's who were either a gk or cf, not suggesting you hit Google by the way, Shearer was a well known captain, but they are massively in the minority and most captain's of repute have been defenders or midfielders. There can be exceptions, aren't there always, but on the whole I'd pick someone from those positions as captain every time.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 14, 2021)

fundy said:



			City been awesome against an awful Leeds side tonight. Must be a happy Tashy somewhere
		
Click to expand...

Yup al take that, been out with tricky Trev and his new Missis. Both have lost there previous partners so it was first time out with them both. Putting things into perspective Ave had a better night seeing me pal smile again than seeing City win.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Same answer as before. 

I wouldn't have a striker as captain either. You need someone who can reach everyone in the team and by sheer geography on a pitch neither the keeper or a cf can do that.

Incidentally, 2 names from the last 40-50 years means an awful lot of other winning captain's who played outfield 😉😆
		
Click to expand...

Neuer was recently. Has/was German captain for the last five years minimum. Lazy to use that argument


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Neuer was recently. Has/was German captain for the last five years minimum. Lazy to use that argument
		
Click to expand...

The last sentence was said with a smile, hence the emojis. Anyway, we clearly disagree, that's fine 👍. I'm sure others are bored of this now so I'll leave it there. Enjoy your day.


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

I get what you guys are saying. I don't think anyone means all goalkeeper captains were bad captains. It just means they're a bit limited in their contribution. If an argument breaks out in the opponent's box and your players need calming down, the keeper has to run 100 yards to do so. Generally over contentious decisions the captain should speak to the ref on behalf of his players (that's how it used to be anyway), and again, the keeper may have to cover a lot of ground in order to do so. At Spurs Lloris is our captain, and I'm sure he's been great, the players all respect him and so on, but on the pitch I'd probably rather it had been Kane (prior to this season anyway 😆). Then again, as was said earlier, you need more than one leader on the pitch so perhaps Kane is one of those who doesn't need the armband (again... prior to this season maybe 😥).


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## Swango1980 (Dec 15, 2021)

It makes sense that the best captains would typically be midfielders, or maybe defenders. Players that cover a lot of ground, and are likely to be able to get up close and personal with their team mates on a regular basis. Players that run a lot, and their sheer work rate can lead by example alone. Defenders probably are also in a good position, as they are positioned in an area of a pitch that requires organisation, rather than forwards who are in an area of a pitch where creativity plays a bigger part (albeit organisation is also important). No hard and fast rule though, I'm sure many teams have had success with GKs or FWs as captains. I'm sure those teams also had big characters in the middle of the pitch anyway, that acted like captains, even if not officially.

As a Utd fan, Roy Keane was our ultimate captain. Liverpool fans it was Gerrard. I guess Arsenal it would be Viera. If those characters were actually goalkeepers rather than midfielders, maybe they'd have still been club captains. But, speaking for myself, I'm glad Roy Keane had the attributes to be a midfielder rather than a goalkeeper, as I doubt he'd have been as influential stuck back in goal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2021)

Here is one for you 

Pick your teams best 5 A side team 

Alisson
VVD
Gerrard
Suarez 
Fowler


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## Dando (Dec 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Here is one for you 

Pick your teams best 5 A side team 

Alisson
VVD
Gerrard
Suarez 
Fowler
		
Click to expand...

No heskey?


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## Swango1980 (Dec 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Here is one for you

Pick your teams best 5 A side team

Alisson
VVD
Gerrard
Suarez
Fowler
		
Click to expand...

Schmeicel
Ferdinand
Keane
Scholes
Ronaldo


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Here is one for you

Pick your teams best 5 A side team

Alisson
VVD
Gerrard
Suarez
Fowler
		
Click to expand...

In my lifetime...
Lloris
Vertonghen
Dembele
Son
Kane

King was the best defender but I've gone for Vertonghen since it's 5-a-side so he gets more marks for being the best on the ball out of the central defenders I've seen. Son just about gets the nod over Bale but it is close. Maybe they can play a half each. Mousa Dembele was just an unbelievable player, if you came up against him in 5-a-side you'd be on your knees by the end.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 15, 2021)

EASSSY W last night for the villa.

What a first half performance and what a goal from Ramsey!

Villa under Gerrard are different gravy!


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## Piece (Dec 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Here is one for you

Pick your teams best 5 A side team

Alisson
VVD
Gerrard
Suarez
Fowler
		
Click to expand...

Foster
Galli
Tozser
Barnes
Johnston


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## Bdill93 (Dec 15, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Here is one for you

Pick your teams best 5 A side team

Alisson
VVD
Gerrard
Suarez
Fowler
		
Click to expand...

Martinez
McGrath
Milner
Grealish
Watkins


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## Beezerk (Dec 15, 2021)

Woods
Walker
Sheridan 
Waddle
Di Canio


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Woods
Walker
Sheridan 
Waddle
Di Canio
		
Click to expand...

Did you get misty eyed reeling those off? 😄. Some names on that team sheet


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## Beezerk (Dec 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did you get misty eyed reeling those off? 😄. Some names on that team sheet
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I know, I was going to announce it as the winning team but I thought the Scousers would get all uppity 🤣


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## Swango1980 (Dec 15, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Yeah I know, I was going to announce it as the winning team but I thought the Scousers would get all uppity 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Bound to be some arguments of "my 5 aside team could beat your 5 aside team". Then there will be someone who presents some detailed statistics of every player in all the teams, which will evidentially "prove" that their 5 aside team is the best of all. Then there will be arguments that the stats have been hand picked, and mean nothing anyway, as it is about how players gel as a team, etc etc.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 15, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Bound to be some arguments of "my 5 aside team could beat your 5 aside team". Then there will be someone who presents some detailed statistics of every player in all the teams, which will evidentially "prove" that their 5 aside team is the best of all. Then there will be arguments that the stats have been hand picked, and mean nothing anyway, as it is about how players gel as a team, etc etc.
		
Click to expand...

But mine is the best?


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## Swango1980 (Dec 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			But mine is the best?
		
Click to expand...

Hang on, going through the stats now


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 15, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Woods
Walker
Sheridan
Waddle
Di Canio
		
Click to expand...

“You’ll never beat Des Walker”
😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2021)

Southall
Stevens 
Ratcliffe 
Bracewell
Heath


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## Bdill93 (Dec 15, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Hang on, going through the stats now
		
Click to expand...

We dont have many real clinical strikers to choose from


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2021)

Southall
Reid
Bracewell
Gasgcoine
Lineker


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			But mine is the best?
		
Click to expand...

I have to say going Watkins over Yorke was pretty bold.


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Southall
Stevens
Ratcliffe
Bracewell
Heath
		
Click to expand...

Never heard of them. Where's Cahill? And Fellaini?


----------



## Fade and Die (Dec 15, 2021)

Parkes
Rio
Rice
Payet
Cottee


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## SteveW86 (Dec 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I get what you guys are saying. I don't think anyone means all goalkeeper captains were bad captains. It just means they're a bit limited in their contribution. If an argument breaks out in the opponent's box and your players need calming down, the keeper has to run 100 yards to do so. Generally over contentious decisions the captain should speak to the ref on behalf of his players (that's how it used to be anyway), and again, the keeper may have to cover a lot of ground in order to do so. At Spurs Lloris is our captain, and I'm sure he's been great, the players all respect him and so on, but on the pitch I'd probably rather it had been Kane (prior to this season anyway 😆). Then again, as was said earlier, you need more than one leader on the pitch so perhaps Kane is one of those who doesn't need the armband (again... prior to this season maybe 😥).
		
Click to expand...

Kane does tick the midfielder box


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## Bdill93 (Dec 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I have to say going Watkins over Yorke was pretty bold.
		
Click to expand...

Watkins is absolute fire mate. You'll see far better numbers in the next 12 months under Gerrard too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2021)

Some great teams 👏

Also amazing to see some proper football legends that have played in the English league 

Walker , Lineker, Waddle , 

Would be a cracking tournament 

Used to love the Indoor Masters


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 15, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			EASSSY W last night for the villa.

What a first half performance and what a goal from Ramsey!

Villa under Gerrard are different gravy!
		
Click to expand...

I thought Villa were pretty decent last night, but it would have been a much tougher match had we not had soooooooooooo many injuries / covid absentees. Seems a bit unfair the game went ahead given United and Spurs didn't when they had COVID problems (guess who our last two games were against?!).

Edit: this isn’t sour grapes by the way, villa can only beat the team that’s in front of them and it was a deserved win. As a club with a comparatively minuscule budget in the PL, any game with so many key players missing is going to be very tough. Just have to hope that the injury crisis subsides and the covid outbreak doesn’t worsen! Unlikely we’ll have any hope of significant improvement before Xmas though!


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## IanM (Dec 15, 2021)

Bull 
Barnard
Briley 
McGregor 
Sheringham

That'll confuse a few


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2021)

IanM said:



			Bull
Barnard
Briley
McGregor
Sheringham

That'll confuse a few   

Click to expand...

Millwall ?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 15, 2021)

Sad to hear that Sergio Aguero has formally announced his retirement due to his heart condition.  Blessing that it never seemed to give rise to serious problem whilst on the pitch.  What a great player, and for that moment in Man City history, most football fans - and if we are truthful about it we all thrilled to that moment - will celebrate for as long as…


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

Seaman
Petit
Viera
Bergkamp
Henry


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Never heard of them. Where's Cahill? And Fellaini?
		
Click to expand...

From the all conquering team of the 80's 😉. Get up to date with your history 😄

Saying that, Cahill and Fellaini would be on the subs bench. They would be cracking g 5 a side players.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			Seaman
Petit
Viera
Bergkamp
Henry
		
Click to expand...

No centre backs, that team will concede goals like crazy. Although, I'm assuming the height of the goals are low in 5aside, so Seaman doesn't have to worry about getting lobbed so much.


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			No centre backs, that team will concede goals like crazy. Although, I'm assuming the height of the goals are low in 5aside, so Seaman doesn't have to worry about getting lobbed so much.
		
Click to expand...

If we were going to analyse it properly, you don't really need a proper centre back in 5-a-side. Three Kantés and one goalscorer would be as good as it gets.


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			If we were going to analyse it properly, you don't really need a proper centre back in 5-a-side. Three Kantés and one goalscorer would be as good as it gets. 

Click to expand...

Ill take Viera and Petit to boss little old Kante however many of them you want


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Yeah I know, I was going to announce it as the winning team but I thought the Scousers would get all uppity 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Never won a thing playing for Wednesday did they?


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			Ill take Viera and Petit to boss little old Kante however many of them you want 

Click to expand...

Down at Power League Kanté would be nutmegging those gangly giants then running through their legs after it.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

Green
Rice
Carrick
Payet 
J cole

Rice and Carrick both having played CB during their careers meaning I can leave out Rio and have cole 

Pains to leave dicanio out but payet was world class that season


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 15, 2021)

Some people look like they are just picking great players, but 5 a side has different skills in some ways.

I think you need defenders who are solid, but nimble, good engine and can score and also need forwards who can defend etc. No last line to run in behind, no headers to be won.

Alison
Steve Nicol
Gerrard
Suarez
Torres

If six a side would have trent in, and swap stevie nicol over to the left hand side.

All scorers, but also do the yards required to get up and down as well, although I heard the other day that Ian Rush mainly used to play in defence in training and you could hardly get past him, and with his finishing.....lets have a 7 a side on the astro turf, instead.


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## Beezerk (Dec 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Never won a thing playing for Wednesday did they?

Click to expand...

John Sheridan won the league cup with us in 91 (beat Man Utd 1-0), I almost chose David Hirst who also played in that final but I thought Di Canio would be a better 5 a side player 😂
So we’re just about level with Everton for the last trophy win 😬🤣


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			John Sheridan won the league cup with us in 91 (beat Man Utd 1-0), I almost chose David Hirst who also played in that final but I thought Di Canio would be a better 5 a side player 😂
So we’re just about level with Everton for the last trophy win 😬🤣
		
Click to expand...

I think you’ll find my 5 had League Champions and European medal winners in it, not the Mickey Mouse Cup winners.


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## Beezerk (Dec 15, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I think you’ll find my 5 had League Champions and European medal winners in it, not the Mickey Mouse Cup winners.

Click to expand...

And Everton’s last trophy win was?
Asking for a friend 👀


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			And Everton’s last trophy win was?
Asking for a friend 👀
		
Click to expand...

What is the relevance to our 5 a-side teams?

PS You don’t have any friends😇


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

Burnley Watford off


----------



## Cherry13 (Dec 15, 2021)

The Athletics Top 10 current players, according to their Writers.  TAA Number 3??? Kante better than VVD?


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

Cherry13 said:



View attachment 39972
View attachment 39972

The Athletics Top 10 current players, according to their Writers.  TAA Number 3??? Kante better than VVD?
		
Click to expand...


all subjective, no ones going to agree, let the arguments discussion begin


----------



## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

Tierney is an awfully weak chap isn't he.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2021)

Good to see an old fashioned London derby with an edge to it. Being well handled (so far as I type this) by the ref


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Tierney is an awfully weak chap isn't he.
		
Click to expand...


unlike big strong Antonio I assume lol


----------



## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			unlike big strong Antonio I assume lol
		
Click to expand...

No problem with it after the ref has set precedent and given ours a yellow for one that was a non event.

At least Partey got stuck in.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

DanFST said:



			No problem with it after the ref has set precedent and given ours a yellow for one that was a non event.

At least Partey got stuck in. 

Click to expand...


lol Antonio was just saving himself from getting a yellow


----------



## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

It'll be a good match up tho, two massive blokes. 


This has cards all over it.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

Snipers out at the library


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

surprised WH sitting as deep as they are, suits us mind

Saka got the beating of Masuaka thats for sure


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

5.9 Soucek


----------



## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

Oh no.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

That's what I love about Antonio 

He is either world class or Sunday league 

Nothing in-between available


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

Some hit from Tierney and a cracking save from Flappy Hands

Feels like the longer we go without scoring we get hit on the counter tho


----------



## pendodave (Dec 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Snipers out at the library
		
Click to expand...

Maybe someone could sedate Arteta from distance while they're at it. What an annoying little #$%@ he is.


----------



## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

Arsenal will score.

It's hard playing these sides that don't have European Football to worry about.


----------



## pendodave (Dec 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			That's what I love about Antonio

He is either world class or Sunday league

Nothing in-between available
		
Click to expand...

When he's Sunday League (like tonight), you look to our bench and see..... literally nothing. Not MA's fault he's out of form, but an indictment of the entire organisation above Moyes.


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Arsenal will score.

It's hard playing these sides that don't have European Football to worry about. 

Click to expand...

nice for the shoe to be on the other foot for once (not really lol)


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

pendodave said:



			When he's Sunday League (like tonight), you look to our bench and see..... literally nothing. Not MA's fault he's out of form, but an indictment of the entire organisation above Moyes.
		
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I'd like to see vlasic given more of a chance. We can play false 9 so easily . Did with lingard 

We play with a converted winger up top as it is


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## Fade and Die (Dec 15, 2021)

Arsenal just keeping giving it to sako against Arthur it’s a no brainier.
In fairness arsenal look very good , a high press and we end up lumping it. Apart from dawson no one really playing near their level.


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## pendodave (Dec 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd like to see vlasic given more of a chance. We can play false 9 so easily . Did with lingard

We play with a converted winger up top as it is
		
Click to expand...

I guess the alternative is to put Bowen up top and bring on benny. I've not seen Vlasic in the flesh, so not entirely sure what to make of him. 
I'd worry about bringing Benny on though, because although he's capable of moments of brilliance, I'm not sure if he will be up to the constant pressing of L'arse.
Either way, one of the richest clubs in Europe ought to have a better option in such an important position. It's not as if we've got anyone out injured who plays there, we've got no-one!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

pendodave said:



			I guess the alternative is to put Bowen up top and bring on benny. I've not seen Vlasic in the flesh, so not entirely sure what to make of him.
I'd worry about bringing Benny on though, because although he's capable of moments of brilliance, I'm not sure if he will be up to the constant pressing of L'arse.
Either way, one of the richest clubs in Europe ought to have a better option in such an important position. It's not as if we've got anyone out injured who plays there, we've got no-one!
		
Click to expand...

I really never understand why we don't play him up front..he has all the ability to play up front and one of the best dribblers at the club

Almost like we shouldnt have sold Haller. Least he scored goals. Was unlucky that he got injured then Antonio had a purple patch.


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## pendodave (Dec 15, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Arsenal just keeping giving it to sako against Arthur it’s a no brainier.
In fairness arsenal look very good , a high press and we end up lumping it. Apart from dawson no one really playing near their level.
		
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Hopefully they'll get a bit tired. But then look at their bench vs ours.
Could we offer give/give during the interval?


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## pendodave (Dec 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I really never understand why we don't play him up front..he has all the ability to play up front and one of the best dribblers at the club

Almost like we shouldnt have sold Haller. Least he scored goals. Was unlucky that he got injured then Antonio had a purple patch.
		
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Nice to see him scoring for Ajax. We just never seemed to work out a way to play with him. Sometimes happens that way I guess.


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

brilliant from Martinelli


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## Fade and Die (Dec 15, 2021)

Far too easy. 😡


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

Why on earth don't arsenal play Lacazette more rather than persist with the gabainse vardy


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Nice to see him scoring for Ajax. We just never seemed to work out a way to play with him. Sometimes happens that way I guess.
		
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Would have worked if played to his strengths rather than just try and make him a speedster


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

God the arsenal players love a moan 

Nothing wrong with challenging the keeper especially when you don't even touch them


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

9.8 for that dive really committed


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## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Far too easy. 😡
		
Click to expand...

Always gonna be tough with the whole back 4 of Cresswell, Zouma, Ogbonna and Johnson out


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## paddyc (Dec 15, 2021)

Laca showing his class


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

wow that looks generous


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

That's not even a pen


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

Snipers doing their work well again


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## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

Disgusting.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2021)

Antony Taylor 😂😂😂

Never a penalty


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## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

Two have arsenals "follow throughs" have been missed shots that have gone straight into the back of our guys legs.... Game ruined


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2021)

Great save


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## GG26 (Dec 15, 2021)

Never a penalty, good challenge for the ball.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

Ref is having a mare .. lost the game


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

GG26 said:



			Never a penalty, good challenge for the ball.
		
Click to expand...

Got the ball aswell


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## Fade and Die (Dec 15, 2021)

I was pretty indifferent to Arsenal before this game but what an unpleasant team they are led by an unpleasant manager.


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## GG26 (Dec 15, 2021)

I don’t get the yellow card either.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2021)

GG26 said:



			I don’t get the yellow card either.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe for chatting back with the protest ? All round mental


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## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

Two absolute joke yellow's.

Back four already out injured, now we lose a 5th.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

GG26 said:



			I don’t get the yellow card either.
		
Click to expand...

Don't get how you can be booked for winning the ball ref has had a mare


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Two absolute joke yellow's.
		
Click to expand...

Ah yes the "elbow" the arsenal players moaned about ..


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## pokerjoke (Dec 15, 2021)

Just the whole problem with VAR and the refs,they just don’t want to go against the refs decision making him look stupid.
Trouble is they are making themselves look silly.
Absolute bonkers


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

Looked a good tackle by Coufal. If VAR isn't overturning that then it's not worth having. You see him win the ball clearly. Some justice that it was missed, but West Ham still down to ten now.


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## pendodave (Dec 15, 2021)

The ref's been played like a violin from start to finish. All obviously planned and choreographed.  I guess profiling the refs and working them over is the newest market inefficiency to be exploited. Hey ho. It's only footy, nothing like as upsetting as my golf atm.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

For crying out loud not saka. I like him don't start being a cheat aswell

Injured until released not getting anything and playing on, straight up


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## paddyc (Dec 15, 2021)

We should be out of sight in this game got to start killing teams off instead of hanging on.


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			For crying out loud not saka. I like him don't start being a chest aswell

Injured until released not getting anything and playing on, straight up
		
Click to expand...

Thats exactly why you should never put the ball out. Fans and players moaning for it until the get the ball back, then he just gets up anyway.


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

kicking the ball out for cramp, get on with it ffs


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## IanM (Dec 15, 2021)

Watching Ars v WHU as your first ever game, you'd assume the objective of the game was to roll around and pretend you'd been shot.


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Thats exactly why you should never put the ball out. Fans and players moaning for it until the get the ball back, then he just gets up anyway.
		
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This as well, Arsenal wasting time putting the ball out for a bit of cramp. If I was West Ham I wouldn't be giving them the ball back, sod that. You choose to put the ball out you don't get it back.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

Mikel, what a scumbag .. just be an honest manager. Roll on the pitch to be injured 

Should send them both off


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			kicking the ball out for cramp, get on with it ffs
		
Click to expand...

Cramp off the pitch until the dark arts get involved


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## Dando (Dec 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			This as well, Arsenal wasting time putting the ball out for a bit of cramp. If I was West Ham I wouldn't be giving them the ball back, sod that. You choose to put the ball out you don't get it back.
		
Click to expand...

Especially when the player come back onto the pitch to go down


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## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

Why is the game stopped for a cramp anyway? I thought it was only head injuries. It comes from the top, Mikel is a next Tuesday, no class.


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Mikel, what a scumbag .. just be an honest manager. Roll on the pitch to be injured

Should send them both off
		
Click to expand...

Embarrassing look for Arteta really. Absolutely desperate.


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			I was pretty indifferent to Arsenal before this game but what an unpleasant team they are led by an unpleasant manager.
		
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I haven't watched much footy lately so I hadn't seen an Arsenal game in months, but you're right. I thought they had some good young players, but here they just look like a shower of scumbags in their manager's image.


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Embarrassing look for Arteta really. Absolutely desperate.
		
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like it all the time, complete control freak, utterly untouchable it seems tho


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

brilliant from ESR


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

Bugger off Mikel with your dodgy smile 

Your players played well but you have been a scumbag. All respect lost for you


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			brilliant from ESR 

Click to expand...

great finish


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I haven't watched much footy lately so I hadn't seen an Arsenal game in months, but you're right. I thought they had some good young players, but here they just look like a shower of scumbags in their manager's image.
		
Click to expand...

ESR disagrees with you


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## paddyc (Dec 15, 2021)

Goodnight West Ham much better performance


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## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

Great finish from ESR. Saka is class too. 

The rest are bell's, lead by that Spanish lego haired pillock.


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## paddyc (Dec 15, 2021)

5.5 Soucek


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

fundy said:



			ESR disagrees with you 

Click to expand...

Well they still do have the good young players too then.


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## paddyc (Dec 15, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Great finish from ESR. Saka is class too.

The rest are bell's, lead by that Spanish lego haired pillock.
		
Click to expand...

Calm down fella well beaten


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well they still do have the good young players too then.
		
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said it many times, happily see the club get rid of all the over 25s in the club  plenty of good youngsters on the books but been hamstrung by the so called "experienced players" for too long


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## DanFST (Dec 15, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Calm down fella well beaten
		
Click to expand...


You show that to someone who doesn't like football. That will reinforce everything they don't like.

At least Soucek will get abuse from it from our lot and probably the manager.


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## GG26 (Dec 15, 2021)

For tomorrow evening’s match against Spurs we (Leicester) are missing all 6 centre backs, plus two full-backs.  Ndidi can stand in as a CB and I suspect he’ll have an academy player making his debut alongside him.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 15, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Calm down fella well beaten
		
Click to expand...

Hard to beat 12 men tho 

Ref bought the play acting from the off


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## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2021)

GG26 said:



			For tomorrow evening’s match against Spurs we (Leicester) are missing all 6 centre backs, plus two full-backs.  Ndidi can stand in as a CB and I suspect he’ll have an academy player making his debut alongside him.
		
Click to expand...

Well we haven't played any football or trained in a week and a half. Should be an interesting game..🤣


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## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2021)

GG26 said:



			For tomorrow evening’s match against Spurs we (Leicester) are missing all 6 centre backs, plus two full-backs.  Ndidi can stand in as a CB and I suspect he’ll have an academy player making his debut alongside him.
		
Click to expand...

Injuries are part of football, everyone gets them. Leicester need to get on with it 😉


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## BiMGuy (Dec 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Got the ball aswell
		
Click to expand...

Getting the ball is completely irrelevant. 

Also, going over the top of the ball, nearly knee high could be considered dangerous.


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Getting the ball is completely irrelevant.

Also, going over the top of the ball, nearly knee high could be considered dangerous.
		
Click to expand...

Coufal didn't do that. He won the ball cleanly, then makes some contact with the forward's shin. Not studs though I don't think. I agree that getting ball first doesn't prevent it being a foul - but also there has to be some contact allowed from your follow-through without it being called reckless or being given as a foul.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 16, 2021)

Oh I do enjoy it when fans start calling other teams cheats for employing “the dark arts”. Like the team they support doesn’t/wouldn’t do exactly the same 😆


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Oh I do enjoy it when fans start calling other teams cheats for employing “the dark arts”. Like the team they support doesn’t/wouldn’t do exactly the same 😆
		
Click to expand...

There is the dark arts and a manager picking his player who's "suffering" cramp up and pushing him back into the field to have the game stopped 

That's darn right cheating 

Re previous post he got the ball and didn't go over the top 

Lacazette was then so badly injured he suddenly jumped up to take the pen.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Coufal didn't do that. He won the ball cleanly, then makes some contact with the forward's shin. Not studs though I don't think. I agree that getting ball first doesn't prevent it being a foul - but also there has to be some contact allowed from your follow-through without it being called reckless or being given as a foul.
		
Click to expand...

After all its a contact sport


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 16, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Oh I do enjoy it when fans start calling other teams cheats for employing “the dark arts”. Like the team they support doesn’t/wouldn’t do exactly the same 😆
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely, every team does it, and whinge like they are holier than though when another team does it against them. Hate when I see my team do it (Arsenal), but, it's become the norm in a game, and the ref's buy into it by not penalizing when they should. I want the ref's to book players for play acting, it's the only way it will reduce it occurring. Whilst they can get away with it, they will.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			Absolutely, every team does it, and whinge like they are holier than though when another team does it against them. Hate when I see my team do it (Arsenal), but, it's become the norm in a game, and the ref's buy into it by not penalizing when they should. I want the ref's to book players for play acting, it's the only way it will reduce it occurring. Whilst they can get away with it, they will.
		
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That's the thing players gaining advantage with play acting is one thing. Bad enough

When a manager starts actively encouraging it in public (not behind closed doors) it's proper poor form

The manager is suppose to discourage it.. publicly anyways .. rather than actively go right go down injured.. no not there.. that won't help


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471233908708630528


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			That's the thing players gaining advantage with play acting is one thing. Bad enough

*When a manager starts actively encouraging it in public (not behind closed doors) it's proper poor form*

The manager is suppose to discourage it.. publicly anyways .. rather than actively go right go down injured.. no not there.. that won't help


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471233908708630528

Click to expand...

Being totally honest here, surely Arteta should face some kind of charge for what he did? He was caught on camera rolling an injured player onto the pitch to waste time. Surely he should get a fine for that?


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Being totally honest here, surely Arteta should face some kind of charge for what he did? He was caught on camera rolling an injured player onto the pitch to waste time. Surely he should get a fine for that?
		
Click to expand...


Really is a slam dunk bringing game into disrepute charge and one they should use to make an example. We'll wait and see if the FA see it that way.....

Also, at the time I was utterly amazed West Ham gave the ball back afterwards, Arsenal wouldnt have!!!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Being totally honest here, surely Arteta should face some kind of charge for what he did? He was caught on camera rolling an injured player onto the pitch to waste time. Surely he should get a fine for that?
		
Click to expand...

That would take decent and bold decisions from the premier League 

I don't think they understand either of them ..

Shame we can't appeal the red either as was two yellows .. neither of them a yellow offence 

First an "elbow" on Tierney .. given because the players made a lot of shouting over nothing 

Second the "tackle" that I swear Lacazette went down holding his face .. 

Refs bought into the gamesmanship and var hasn't corrected it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

Arteta is correct, a player cannot leave the field of play without permission it is a bookable offence, just lije he cannot reenter the field of play without the Referee’s permission.

So, as much as it looks bad, the onky correct way for any player to be looked after is to be on the pitch and get the Ref to stop play, anytime lost should be added on as injury time, so Arteta is not wasting time, he’s protecting his player.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			Really is a slam dunk bringing game into disrepute charge and one they should use to make an example. We'll wait and see if the FA see it that way.....

Also, at the time I was utterly amazed West Ham gave the ball back afterwards, Arsenal wouldnt have!!!
		
Click to expand...

That's the annoying thing the game was won by better football, that first goal, outstanding and the second finish lovely 

Its just tarnished by off the field antics from the manager and on the field performance from the ref 

Neither should affect the result but just leaves a poor taste 

Take nothing away from the quality of football tho

As I said. The fa / premier League are spineless


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Arteta is correct, a player cannot leave the field of play without permission it is a bookable offence, just lije he cannot reenter the field of play without the Referee’s permission.

So, as much as it looks bad, the onky correct way for any player to be looked after is to be on the pitch and get the Ref to stop play, anytime lost should be added on as injury time, so Arteta is not wasting time, he’s protecting his player.
		
Click to expand...

Don't be silly, lol.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Don't be silly, lol.
		
Click to expand...

Nice reply, how about acting all grown up and show me were I’m wrong.

It may leave a bad taste, but what Football Law has he actually broke?


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## Bdill93 (Dec 16, 2021)

With the Jan window coming up, who would you like your club to be looking to sign?

Villa have just lost Marvellous Nakamba to a knee injury - hes been a rock at CDM since Gerrard came in. Would like to see a CDM come in to replace him . Ive seen us linked with Rangers Kamara for around 10/15 mill. Could work well if he can adapt to the prem quick enough, hes obviously familiar with Gerrards system and fits the gap nicely.


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice reply, how about acting all grown up and show me were I’m wrong.

It may leave a bad taste, but what Football Law has he actually broke?
		
Click to expand...

The one where he deliberately wasted time in the match? Please don't be this guy again.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Arteta is correct, a player cannot leave the field of play without permission it is a bookable offence, just lije he cannot reenter the field of play without the Referee’s permission.

So, as much as it looks bad, the onky correct way for any player to be looked after is to be on the pitch and get the Ref to stop play, anytime lost should be added on as injury time, so Arteta is not wasting time, he’s protecting his player.
		
Click to expand...

So he did both then by your book? 

How about you back it up with the law? Before calling out someone else.

So he should be booked for leaving and re-entering the pitch without permission by this "law"


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So he did both then by your book?

How about you back it up with the law? Before calling out someone else.

So he should be booked for leaving and re-entering the pitch without permission by this "law"
		
Click to expand...

How about you read the links in the twitter post you shared, it shows the law there.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The one where he deliberately wasted time in the match? Please don't be this guy again. 

Click to expand...

How about you show me were I’m wrong?

I agree it looks bad, but if he’d of had treatment off the pitch he couldn’t of reentered without the Refs permission, Arsenal would of been playing 1 man down, Arteta is looking after Arsenal.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Being totally honest here, surely Arteta should face some kind of charge for what he did? He was caught on camera rolling an injured player onto the pitch to waste time. Surely he should get a fine for that?
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. Is he the Premier Leagues new Simeone?


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## Swango1980 (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How about you show me were I’m wrong?

I agree it looks bad, but if he’d of had treatment off the pitch he couldn’t of reentered without the Refs permission, Arsenal would of been playing 1 man down, Arteta is looking after Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

If players get treatment on the pitch, do they not have to go off the pitch afterwards anyway? And then can only come on when ref says so.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			If players get treatment on the pitch, do they not have to go off the pitch afterwards anyway? And then can only come on when ref says so.
		
Click to expand...

The game is then stopped by the Referee isn’t it? ie, outside the Law for entering or leaving the field without permission.


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			With the Jan window coming up, who would you like your club to be looking to sign?

Villa have just lost Marvellous Nakamba to a knee injury - hes been a rock at CDM since Gerrard came in. Would like to see a CDM come in to replace him . Ive seen us linked with Rangers Kamara for around 10/15 mill. Could work well if he can adapt to the prem quick enough, hes obviously familiar with Gerrards system and fits the gap nicely.
		
Click to expand...


More worried about the outs than the ins for Arsenal January. Still a lot of deadwood to go and were not going to have that many games in the new year to keep a big squad all happy. That said I expect they will try and get a midfielder if the African Nations goes ahead (with both Partey and Elneny likely to be there)

 In a perfect world be would buy the central midfielder/leader weve needed for a decade and also the type of striker that better fits what Arteta is trying to achieve.

Expect Nketiah will sign a pre contract to go somewhere in the summer, Lacazette likely to do so too, Balogun will probably go out on loan (unless we manage to offload Aubameyang). Others that could go if theres any interest include Kolasinac, Cedric, Mari, Chambers, Elneny. Expect Leno may look for regular football somewhere else now too


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How about you read the links in the twitter post you shared, it shows the law there.
		
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Cautionable offences A player is cautioned if guilty of:
 •  delaying the restart of play •  dissent by word or action 
•    entering, re-entering or deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission 

You do know the field of play includes the touch line? And surrounding areas ...

Its not like he's gone down to the dressing room.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			With the Jan window coming up, who would you like your club to be looking to sign?

Villa have just lost Marvellous Nakamba to a knee injury - hes been a rock at CDM since Gerrard came in. Would like to see a CDM come in to replace him . Ive seen us linked with Rangers Kamara for around 10/15 mill. Could work well if he can adapt to the prem quick enough, hes obviously familiar with Gerrards system and fits the gap nicely.
		
Click to expand...

Blimey, where to start. Everton need a right back, a left back and a striker. The rest can wait until summer. The striker could be a loan signing as DCL should be back and would usually start but we need someone to help DCL to ease back in and give him cover. Rondon was meant to be that man, it has not come off.

I'd love to give you names but I can't pluck them out. It very much depends on where we stand with FFP as that restricted us during the summer and I don't see how it would have changed. We probably have a buying list A and buying list B depending on this.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			More worried about the outs than the ins for Arsenal January. Still a lot of deadwood to go and were not going to have that many games in the new year to keep a big squad all happy. That said I expect they will try and get a midfielder if the African Nations goes ahead (with both Partey and Elneny likely to be there)

In a perfect world be would buy the central midfielder/leader weve needed for a decade and also the type of striker that better fits what Arteta is trying to achieve.

Expect Nketiah will sign a pre contract to go somewhere in the summer, Lacazette likely to do so too, Balogun will probably go out on loan (unless we manage to offload Aubameyang). Others that could go if theres any interest include Kolasinac, Cedric, Mari, Chambers, Elneny. Expect Leno may look for regular football somewhere else now too
		
Click to expand...

That is one hell of a lot of players leaving the club soon!


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## Bdill93 (Dec 16, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Blimey, where to start. Everton need a right back, a left back and a striker. The rest can wait until summer. The striker could be a loan signing as DCL should be back and would usually start but we need someone to help DCL to ease back in and give him cover. Rondon was meant to be that man, it has not come off.

I'd love to give you names but I can't pluck them out. It very much depends on where we stand with FFP as that restricted us during the summer and I don't see how it would have changed. We probably have a buying list A and buying list B depending on this.
		
Click to expand...

Really saw you pushing higher this year pre-season! Not quite what I expected thus far - but plenty of time to get it right before the season is over


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## Swango1980 (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			The game is then stopped by the Referee isn’t it? ie, outside the Law for entering or leaving the field without permission.
		
Click to expand...

The game is stopped while the player receives treatment on the pitch, yes. However, he is then taken off the pitch as soon as possible, and the game will restart with the player still off the pitch.

I agree that by re-entering the pitch and going down injured, then the game is at least stopped for a good amount of the treatment time. So, it is no surprise Arteta did what he did. However, it possibly does show he was more interested in Arsenal being a man down than the welfare of the player.


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How about you show me were I’m wrong?

I agree it looks bad, but if he’d of had treatment off the pitch he couldn’t of reentered without the Refs permission, Arsenal would of been playing 1 man down, Arteta is looking after Arsenal.
		
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Why do you always pick the obviously ridiculous side of any debate and try and defend the indefensible? A player is not going to be reprimanded for leaving the pitch when injured, because in doing so he allows the game to continue while he gets treatment. i.e. the referee would obviously give permission implicitly - like he does when they get the ball for a throw-in or simply run past the lines.   It was very clearly an act of time-wasting from Arteta, and to say anything different would be absurd.


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			That is one hell of a lot of players leaving the club soon!
		
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Id love to add a couple more too (Xhaka, Aubameyang)

Most will still be there until the summer I expect, may get one or two off the books in January if were lucky

Bear in mind 12 senior players left in the summer too, shows just how bad the squad is/was. Hopefully Saliba will come back in the summer albeit wouldnt be surprised if he tells Arteta and Arsenal where to stick it!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Cautionable offences A player is cautioned if guilty of:
•  delaying the restart of play •  dissent by word or action
•    entering, re-entering or deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission

You do know the field of play includes the touch line? And surrounding areas ...

Its not like he's gone down to the dressing room.
		
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So I’m correct then
You wanted Arteta charged and all sorts!

Edit:You’re wrong on the field of play:

The field of play is *rectangular and marked with lines called boundary lines*. The two longer boundary lines are touch lines and the two shorter lines are goal lines. It is divided into two halves by a halfway line, which joins the midpoints of the two touch lines.

No mention of surrounding areas.


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Did read one interesting article the other day where a lot of clubs/agents expect there to be a much reduced loan market this January as the big clubs refuse to let players out on loan to cover covid shortages (and that some may even look to recall players out on loan to cover issues)


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## Foxholer (Dec 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Cautionable offences A player is cautioned if guilty of:
•  delaying the restart of play •  dissent by word or action
•    entering, re-entering or deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission

You do know the field of play includes the touch line? And surrounding areas ...

Its not like he's gone down to the dressing room.
		
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Tut tut!
Destroying a 'good' opinion with facts! Shame on you! Remember, this is Football!


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			With the Jan window coming up, who would you like your club to be looking to sign?
		
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We need two new centre backs for a start. Probably a creative CM since Ndombele was meant to be that but he cannot be arsed to actually play. I'd like to see Sanchez sold, along with Ndombele if he's not going to make an effort, and as much as it pains me to say it, Dele can go for the same reason. Bergwijn can go as well simply because he's not very good. There are others we could easily stand to lose as well but you're not going to sell everyone at once. Another striker to offer at least a modicum of competition/support to Kane would be nice, but we've been saying that for 7 years so not holding my breath.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Why do you always pick the obviously ridiculous side of any debate and try and defend the indefensible? A player is not going to be reprimanded for leaving the pitch when injured, because in doing so he allows the game to continue while he gets treatment. i.e. the referee would obviously give permission implicitly - like he does when they get the ball for a throw-in or simply run past the lines.   It was very clearly an act of time-wasting from Arteta, and to say anything different would be absurd.
		
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How about you try educating yourself before being rude and offensive to those who don’t see it the way you do?

By putting Martinelli back on the pitch, to get the Referee to stop the game, to give Arteta a chance to reorganise his team and see if the injury is serious or not is Arteta doing his job.

How can it be time wasting when the time is added on in injury time? 

Maybe it was also 15yrs as a Referee, listening to “expert amatuer players” think they know it all.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			The game is stopped while the player receives treatment on the pitch, yes. However, he is then taken off the pitch as soon as possible, and the game will restart with the player still off the pitch.

I agree that by re-entering the pitch and going down injured, then the game is at least stopped for a good amount of the treatment time. So, it is no surprise Arteta did what he did. However, it possibly does show he was more interested in Arsenal being a man down than the welfare of the player.
		
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He’s not taken off the pitch as soon as possible, he’s taken off once he’s able to move.

It’s also possible Arteta was doing both.


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Leicester v Spurs cancelled


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Sounds like Chelsea had 3 more +ve tests too


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			Leicester v Spurs cancelled
		
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Our plan to win the league without anyone noticing by having 8 games in hand at the end.


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Our plan to win the league without anyone noticing by having 8 games in hand at the end.
		
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when does Conte start complaining about your schedule? January I assume lol


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			when does Conte start complaining about your schedule? January I assume lol
		
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At least we've binned Europe off.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How about you try educating yourself before being rude and offensive to those who don’t see it the way you do?

By putting Martinelli back on the pitch, to get the Referee to stop the game, to give Arteta a chance to reorganise his team and see if the injury is serious or not is Arteta doing his job.

How can it be time wasting when the time is added on in injury time?

Maybe it was also 15yrs as a Referee, listening to “expert amatuer players” think they know it all.
		
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By putting him back on the pitch is re-entering the field of play without permission so two yellows ..

Also he put the player at risk of further injury by moving him

He isn't a medical expert.

Where has a player ever been booked for going off the touchline ? Kieran dyer ran down the advertising hoarding around a player to score a cracking goal for Newcastle back in the day

Arteta just cheated. Plain and simply and is hiding by a "law" that's misinterpreted


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 16, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Really saw you pushing higher this year pre-season! Not quite what I expected thus far - but plenty of time to get it right before the season is over
		
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We have a good 14 or so but no depth. We have had injuries and or lack of form in some key areas, CF is the obvious one. We need to get Calvert Lewin back and firing quickly. That gets Richarlison back to his correct role and the crosses Gray is putting across will finally have someone on the end of them. Hopefully he will be back shortly after Christmas and that should help massively.

The full backs are also a problem. Digne is a key provider for us but he has lost form / fallen out with Benitez. At the same time Coleman on the other side is starting to look very old all of a sudden, although he is only 33. We don't have replacements for either of them and it is showing. Key supply lines have fallen off a cliff.


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## Neilds (Dec 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			By putting him back on the pitch is re-entering the field of play without permission so two yellows ..

*Also he put the player at risk of further injury by moving him*

He isn't a medical expert.

Where has a player ever been booked for going off the touchline ? Kieran dyer ran down the advertising hoarding around a player to score a cracking goal for Newcastle back in the day

Arteta just cheated. Plain and simply and is hiding by a "law" that's misinterpreted
		
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Assuming the player was actually injured in the first place - most aren't!!!!


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

United Brighton at the weekend off now too

Must be close to them cancelling all games for a week or two surely


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			United Brighton at the weekend off now too

Must be close to them cancelling all games for a week or two surely
		
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It would make much more sense to cancel all games for a week as a mini circuit breaker than play some and not the others


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			It would make much more sense to cancel all games for a week as a mini circuit breaker than play some and not the others
		
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This is actually the perfect time - if they cancelled this weekend, then after today's game it would be 10 days until the next matches (Boxing Day). I guess that doesn't account for training, but still.


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## GB72 (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			This is actually the perfect time - if they cancelled this weekend, then after today's game it would be 10 days until the next matches (Boxing Day). I guess that doesn't account for training, but still.
		
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Good bit of amunition for anyone complaining as well, action being taken now to save the beloved boxing day matches. Seems sensible


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			This is actually the perfect time - if they cancelled this weekend, then after today's game it would be 10 days until the next matches (Boxing Day). I guess that doesn't account for training, but still.
		
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No doubt some clubs would moan that they will lose players to the Acon (that should be cancelled with covid hitting hard no?) If they put the games back


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			No doubt some clubs would moan that they will lose players to the Acon (that should be cancelled with covid hitting hard no?) If they put the games back
		
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Klopp complains about that regardless.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Klopp complains about that regardless. 

Click to expand...

Well their best player will be off and one of their top players will be joining lol 

You can't replace Salah easily 
. Especially when his second in command is with him


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			United Brighton at the weekend off now too

Must be close to them cancelling all games for a week or two surely
		
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can see the games being played during the “winter break”


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## GB72 (Dec 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			can see the games being played during the “winter break”
		
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Seems to make sense to give an official 7 day winter break now. 

I can see all sorrts of rows starting over players being allowd to go to ACON


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

UEFA Nations League draw at 5pm tonight.

England will draw 1 from each of these Pots:

POT 1
Belgium 
France 
Italy 
Spain 

POT 2
Portugal
Netherlands
Denmark
Germany

POT 4
Wales 
Austria
Czech Republic
Hungary


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Seems to make sense to give an official 7 day winter break now.

I can see all sorrts of rows starting over players being allowd to go to ACON
		
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I don't get how it can even go ahead .. only a week ago it was on the red list .. the new variant is from there 

But hey ho sport trump's science


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Seems to make sense to give an official 7 day winter break now.

I can see all sorrts of rows starting over players being allowd to go to ACON
		
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thats been brewing for a while, almost certain some of the European clubs are going to try and not allow their players to go, if it goes ahead


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Seems to make sense to give an official 7 day winter break now.

I can see all sorrts of rows starting over players being allowd to go to ACON
		
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Yeah the AFCON will be a worry because of  the winter break meant they were only missing 2 league games ( plus cup games ) - it wouldn’t go down well with Clubs if games get cancelled and then players did leave to go to AFCON


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## GB72 (Dec 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yeah the AFCON will be a worry because of  the winter break meant they were only missing 2 league games ( plus cup games ) - it wouldn’t go down well with Clubs if games get cancelled and then players did leave to go to AFCON
		
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Problem is that those feelings will then be tied in to arguments about players not travelling again due to Covid but, with no red countries, I am guessing there is less of a point to make this time.


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## GB72 (Dec 16, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't get how it can even go ahead .. only a week ago it was on the red list .. the new variant is from there

But hey ho sport trump's science
		
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This is football though. They were sending players into the middle of high infection zones in south america last year.


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## Foxholer (Dec 16, 2021)

GB72 said:



			This is football though. They were sending players into the middle of high infection zones in south america last year.
		
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And we know how sensible and responsible Footballers are!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Problem is that those feelings will then be tied in to arguments about players not travelling again due to Covid but, with no red countries, I am guessing there is less of a point to make this time.
		
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Yeah the removal of the red countries removes the ability to stop the players going 

It’s always been daft to have a major comp during the main season for the main leagues.


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 16, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Being totally honest here, surely Arteta should face some kind of charge for what he did? He was caught on camera rolling an injured player onto the pitch to waste time. Surely he should get a fine for that?
		
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I can't remember which game I was watching recently, it would have been an Arsenal match, but I saw the opponent manger do exactly the same thing. A player went down off the field and he was helped onto the field to stop the game. Whilst it leaves a bad taste, you need to make it clear there will be punishment going forward, you can't just go and punish Arteta (unless there is already a rule in place), he's not the only one doing it.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yeah the removal of the red countries removes the ability to stop the players going

It’s always been daft to have a major comp during the main season for the main leagues.
		
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Must be the festive season

Fully agree.


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## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2021)

need_my_wedge said:



			I can't remember which game I was watching recently, it would have been an Arsenal match, but I saw the opponent manger do exactly the same thing. A player went down off the field and he was helped onto the field to stop the game. Whilst it leaves a bad taste, you need to make it clear there will be punishment going forward, you can't just go and punish Arteta (unless there is already a rule in place), he's not the only one doing it.
		
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I'm sure it's happened before, I just don't recall seeing it. Obviously anyone doing the same thing should be punished - especially when it's so clearly obvious in a high profile televised game. It's an open goal in terms of the evidence being right there.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

Tough group:

Group A3: Hungary, England, Germany, Italy.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s not taken off the pitch as soon as possible, he’s taken off once he’s able to move.

It’s also possible Arteta was doing both.
		
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Exactly, as soon as possible. That being, as soon as he is able to move. I was not suggesting a crane came on the pitch and dragged him off as soon as he went down


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

New PL statement: a further four games OFF this weekend -  
Southampton FC v Brentford FC 
Watford FC v Crystal Palace FC 
West Ham United v Norwich City 
Everton FC v Leicester City FC


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2021)

We are missing three players through Covid - Fabinho , VVD and Jones


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We are missing three players through Covid - Fabinho , VVD and Jones
		
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Chelsea missing all their forwards, as are Everton it seems


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## Jimaroid (Dec 16, 2021)

Our line up makes a good laugh. Or cry.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			Chelsea missing all their forwards, as are Everton it seems
		
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Yep - I suspect these will be the last games until Boxing Day


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Our line up makes a good laugh. Or cry.
		
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Hopefully it won’t be too embarrassing…


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## Piece (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			New PL statement: a further four games OFF this weekend - 
Southampton FC v Brentford FC
Watford FC v Crystal Palace FC
West Ham United v Norwich City
Everton FC v Leicester City FC
		
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That saves me the dilemma whether to go or not!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2021)

Curse of the returning player


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			New PL statement: a further four games OFF this weekend - 
Southampton FC v Brentford FC
Watford FC v Crystal Palace FC
West Ham United v Norwich City
Everton FC v Leicester City FC
		
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Seems daft that we were made to play midweek with a threadbare squad.


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Seems daft that we were made to play midweek with a threadbare squad.
		
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this is the big issue now, several sides playing missing lots of players whilst others being allowed to postpone, going to be some claims of unfair treatment for sure


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## Fade and Die (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			New PL statement: a further four games OFF this weekend - 
Southampton FC v Brentford FC
Watford FC v Crystal Palace FC
West Ham United v Norwich City
Everton FC v Leicester City FC
		
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That’s a result! I’m at The Darts on Friday and really didn’t fancy getting up on Saturday 😁


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			this is the big issue now, several sides playing missing lots of players whilst others being allowed to postpone, going to be some claims of unfair treatment for sure
		
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The sensible thing is a two week break for everyone to the New Year.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			That’s a result! I’m at The Darts on Friday and really didn’t fancy getting up on Saturday 😁
		
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Much as I'd love to be at the darts - always a great night out - not sure I fancy it in the current circumstances. At least you can nurse the hangover now


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			That’s a result! I’m at The Darts on Friday and really didn’t fancy getting up on Saturday 😁
		
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what you dressing as so that we can spot you on the telly


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2021)

Ref really should have stopped the game there tbh


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ref really should have stopped the game there tbh
		
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id love to here Maccas commentary if that had been at the other end lol


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## Fade and Die (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			what you dressing as so that we can spot you on the telly 

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I’ll be dressed as a 55 year old man in a Christmas jumper.😁


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## IanM (Dec 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ref really should have stopped the game there tbh
		
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Not at that end he wouldn't!


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## Hobbit (Dec 16, 2021)

fundy said:



			what you dressing as so that we can spot you on the telly 

Click to expand...

He’ll just have his usual Friday night frock.


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			He’ll just have his usual Friday night frock.
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 16, 2021)

Come on Liverpool!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Come on Liverpool!
		
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Look like they can score every attack now. Can see this being a big score now (and so cue 2-1 final score!!!)


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## Jimaroid (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Hopefully it won’t be too embarrassing…
		
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Well I was expecting worse than what we’ve seen so far. Pickford has had to do a lot but there’s a bit of hope.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Well I was expecting worse than what we’ve seen so far. Pickford has had to do a lot but there’s a bit of hope.
		
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Certainly a lot of effort, but a massive gulf in class, 🤞


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 16, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Well I was expecting worse than what we’ve seen so far. Pickford has had to do a lot but there’s a bit of hope.
		
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I’ll take that.👍🏻


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2021)

Not a bad hit that 😲


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## Swango1980 (Dec 16, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not a bad hit that 😲
		
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Mike Dean did his best to block it


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## Dando (Dec 16, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			How about you show me were I’m wrong?

I agree it looks bad, but if he’d of had treatment off the pitch he couldn’t of reentered without the Refs permission, Arsenal would of been playing 1 man down, Arteta is looking after Arsenal.
		
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You said earlier he was protecting his player 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Tashyboy (Dec 16, 2021)

Last season when games were cancelled due to COVID,There was a call to take 3 points off the teams that cancelled. That’s not been the case this year, 🤔
In fact the older call is to cancel the season for a couple of weeks.

Thoughts me dears.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 16, 2021)

Eddie Howe is complaining that his player was down with a head injury and was "dazed for four or five minutes" and the game should've been stopped. That's fair enough but if your player was dazed for four or five minutes surely you should've taken him off and brought on a concussion sub. If the head injury was serious enough to leave the player dazed then surely the concussion protocol should've kicked in.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Eddie Howe is complaining that his player was down with a head injury and was "dazed for four or five minutes" and the game should've been stopped. That's fair enough but if your player was dazed for four or five minutes surely you should've taken him off and brought on a concussion sub. If the head injury was serious enough to leave the player dazed then surely the concussion protocol should've kicked in.
		
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He needs lessons in counting because it was nowhere near 4 never mind 5 minutes. 

It's about time refs stopped giving silly fouls for those types of incidents where the attacking side used to be penalised by play acting. 

It really is annoying when any player, of any team, holds a part of the body claiming to be in pain then gets straight up like nothing has happened.


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## Orikoru (Dec 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			id love to here Maccas commentary if that had been at the other end lol
		
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I cannot understand why BT keep putting this biased idiot on Liverpool matches. Infuriating.


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## Orikoru (Dec 17, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Mike Dean did his best to block it
		
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Let's be honest it would have been way funnier if it smacked him in the face or the stomach.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 17, 2021)

I liked it more when Mike Dean wasnt allowed to ref our games.

Since his rise to be the most famous celebrity Tranmere Rovers fan, we've had to endure his inept performances too.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 17, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Eddie Howe is complaining that his player was down with a head injury and was "dazed for four or five minutes" and the game should've been stopped. That's fair enough but if your player was dazed for four or five minutes surely you should've taken him off and brought on a concussion sub. If the head injury was serious enough to leave the player dazed then surely the concussion protocol should've kicked in.
		
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Showed quite clearly there was no clash of heads .
He had a bit of a bad landing , caused by his own player.
The game can’t be stopped every time someone has a bad landing.
We need to get away from players putting the ball out of play and make the ref make that decision.
That’s his job ,he is in charge.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 17, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Showed quite clearly there was no clash of heads .
He had a bit of a bad landing , caused by his own player.
The game can’t be stopped every time someone has a bad landing.
We need to get away from players putting the ball out of play and make the ref make that decision.
That’s his job ,he is in charge.
		
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What did my head in is Joe Cole saying you should believe players reaction to things.

What world does he live in, and he was a purveyor of exaggeration and going down easy in his day. 

Players try to get whatever they can these days by going down easy, diving, appealing for touches that did or didnt happen etc - all clubs, so I dont buy into this go on player reaction malarkey, unless its in the negative - as in he doesnt appeal to the ref, as he blatantly took someone out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2021)

Mike Dean got away with it imo 

He didn’t see the player on the floor imo - if he did then we would have blow up 

whilst it’s not a rule got to be careful with the head etc and if that was a proper clash then it would have caused all sorts 

In the end the right result but imo only because Dean is incompetent


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## davemc1 (Dec 17, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mike Dean got away with it imo

He didn’t see the player on the floor imo - if he did then we would have blow up

whilst it’s not a rule got to be careful with the head etc and if that was a proper clash then it would have caused all sorts

In the end the right result but imo only because Dean is incompetent
		
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You think we only won because of Dean’s incompetence? Really? 😳


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## Bdill93 (Dec 17, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Showed quite clearly there was no clash of heads .
He had a bit of a bad landing , caused by his own player.
The game can’t be stopped every time someone has a bad landing.
We need to get away from players putting the ball out of play and make the ref make that decision.
That’s his job ,he is in charge.
		
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Agreed. The man down was barely touched and trying to take advantage of the head injury rule! Glad they played on and scored, hate players faking injury.


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## pendodave (Dec 17, 2021)

Bdill93 said:



			Agreed. The man down was barely touched and trying to take advantage of the head injury rule! Glad they played on and scored, hate players faking injury.
		
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Surely the correct response to this type of action is to retrospectively review the contact and discipline the players involved. It would stop straight away. It works for 'simulation' after all....
In all seriousness, the people running our game seem to be completely uninterested in  improving it for the benefit of the people who actually watch it. It's a great shame.


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Surely the correct response to this type of action is to retrospectively review the contact and discipline the players involved. It would stop straight away. It works for 'simulation' after all....
In all seriousness, the people running our game seem to be completely uninterested in  improving it for the benefit of the people who actually watch it. It's a great shame.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, just need a "shit bloke" panel that sits each monday! Fans can send anything they want in to be reviewed, diving, feigning injury, managers throwing players back on the pitch etc

Any player that fails the test gets warned first time, suspended for 1 game, 3 games, 10 games etc going forward. Be rid of it in no time


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 17, 2021)

fundy said:



			Yep, just need a "shit bloke" panel that sits each monday! Fans can send anything they want in to be reviewed, diving, feigning injury, managers throwing players back on the pitch etc

Any player that fails the test gets warned first time, suspended for 1 game, 3 games, 10 games etc going forward. Be rid of it in no time 

Click to expand...

I'd say "ushered" more than thrown, although in subjective football decisions, it depends on your bias.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 17, 2021)

Listening to Klopp last night and again today (although the spurs presser was recorded last night) I’m convinced he thinks we’re playing Shrewsbury on Wed and not Leicester.

The man gives zero shits about the English cup competitions 😆 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			You think we only won because of Dean’s incompetence? Really? 😳
		
Click to expand...

Of course not - I meant the first goal


----------



## fundy (Dec 17, 2021)

French football fans at it again.....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471948775518355466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471947930667991043


----------



## DaveR (Dec 18, 2021)

Matches being cancelled.  Apparently 25% of players refuse to get jabbed 🤦


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Matches being cancelled.  Apparently 25% of players refuse to get jabbed 🤦
		
Click to expand...

Yes only two games left in the PL
Ironic really when you need a COVID passport to get in the ground.


----------



## Slime (Dec 18, 2021)

DaveR said:



			Matches being cancelled.  *Apparently 25% of players refuse to get jabbed* 🤦
		
Click to expand...

That refers only to EFL players, EPL players are not included in that statistic.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			That refers only to EFL players, EPL players are not included in that statistic.
		
Click to expand...

Heard some stats on a podcast yesterday & Premier league players jabbed are way down on the rest of Europes top leagues for some reason.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 18, 2021)

On a positive note with the footie cancelled. I won’t have to scroll through ten pages of “Groundhog Day“ re a couple of teams not playing 😉😁


----------



## Canary_Yellow (Dec 18, 2021)

Short notice postponements are ridiculous.

The right decision probably, but the timing is daft. Should have just postponed the whole calendar for 2 weeks


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 18, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Short notice postponements are ridiculous.

The right decision probably, but the timing is daft. Should have just postponed the whole calendar for 2 weeks
		
Click to expand...

I would be surprised if that is not the decision after Mondays prem  team meeting
Edit to say this is what Jonathon Pearce had to say
In my opinion, the league missed out on an opportunity. If they had called every game off from Wednesday night onwards, it would have given a 10-day isolation period before the Boxing Day matches.
Just had a look, City have 3 games to play from 25th to new year. They could all be cancelled. A stitch in time could of saved nine.


----------



## fundy (Dec 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I would be surprised if that is not the decision after Mondays prem  team meeting
Edit to say this is what Jonathon Pearce had to say
In my opinion, the league missed out on an opportunity. If they had called every game off from Wednesday night onwards, it would have given a 10-day isolation period before the Boxing Day matches.
Just had a look, City have 3 games to play from 25th to new year. They could all be cancelled. A stitch in time could of saved nine.
		
Click to expand...


Albeit almost every so called medical expert has said a small circuit break to the football will do nothing to ensure they can play in 2 weeks time

Or do we ignore the scientists for Jonathon Pearces opinion when it suits?


----------



## DaveR (Dec 18, 2021)

Slime said:



			That refers only to EFL players, EPL players are not included in that statistic.
		
Click to expand...

It's irrelevant which league, the sentiment is the same.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			Albeit almost every so called medical expert has said a small circuit break to the football will do nothing to ensure they can play in 2 weeks time

Or do we ignore the scientists for Jonathon Pearces opinion when it suits?
		
Click to expand...

Don’t know who the medical experts are and there is not a guarantee that it would allow football on Boxing Day. But carrying on as we are sure ain’t the answer.  Ask one of the 2,000 Burnley fans that made there way to Villa today. Am sure they would agree and none of them Are experts


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes only two games left in the PL
Ironic really when you need a COVID passport to get in the ground.
		
Click to expand...

Or a negative Covid test


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or a negative Covid test
		
Click to expand...

Which is a load of bollocks. It should be No jab, no entry and that includes players.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 18, 2021)

Why do we have to come onto this thread and see the same people swearing every time.
Can you not read the forum rules Stu or do you feel you are above them.


----------



## fundy (Dec 18, 2021)

If ever a sides been there for the taking it Leeds here. Plse dont take the foot off the gas!!!


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			If ever a sides been there for the taking it Leeds here. Plse dont take the foot off the gas!!!
		
Click to expand...

There’s at least 5 goals for The Arsenal here…


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2021)

10/10 for Martinelli staying on his feet there when he could've gone down. And got his reward. Fantastic finish.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 18, 2021)

❤GABI


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 18, 2021)

Bielsa is a terrible manager,coach,tactician or whatever he’s known as.
So many injuries and first choices out and he still wants to play open football.
I said after 3 games he’s nieve and I’ve been proved right.
If he doesn’t tighten up he could find Leeds fighting for P/L survival.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 18, 2021)

I really like Leeds and after years out of the PL are back where they belong but you have to worry about if they can stay up a 7-0 against city and we could be 5 up by now


----------



## fundy (Dec 18, 2021)

disgusting not to mention utterly stupid stamp by the clown

seriously Arteta get rid


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			disgusting not to mention utterly stupid stamp by the clown

seriously Arteta get rid
		
Click to expand...

Yes 100% Michael Oliver looks at it and advises no foul,is he blind.


----------



## fundy (Dec 18, 2021)

geez i hate the term game management, especially when applied to arsenal retreating into their shell when in front


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 18, 2021)

Ben White for England lol
With challenges in the box like that.
Headless


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Why do we have to come onto this thread and see the same people swearing every time.
Can you not read the forum rules Stu or do you feel you are above them.
		
Click to expand...

🙄🙄

To coin the phrase " no one likes a whiny ballbag", has never been more apt on this occassion.

Furthermore, i've just searched the alledged swear word and it has been frequently used on this board by many over the last few years, including by someone yesterday. 

You're obviously offended so i suggest you report/snitch to a Mod and let them deal with it.

Merry Xmas


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 18, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			🙄🙄

To coin the phrase " no one likes a whiny ballbag", has never been more apt on this occassion.

Furthermore, i've just searched the alledged swear word and it has been frequently used on this board by many over the last few years, including by someone yesterday.

You're obviously offended so i suggest you report/snitch to a Mod and let them deal with it.

Merry Xmas
		
Click to expand...

That’s why I posted I never and have never snitched or reported anyone,although some have me.
Just because others do it doesn’t make it right does it.
It clearly states no swearing in the rules.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 18, 2021)

Wikipedia
quote
_*Bollocks*_ (/ˈbɒləks/) is a word of Middle English origin, meaning "testicles". The word is often used figuratively in British English and Hiberno-English in a multitude of negative ways; it most commonly appears as a noun meaning "rubbish" or "nonsense", an expletive following a minor accident or misfortune, or an adjective to describe something that is of poor quality or useless. It is also used in common phrases like "bollocks to this", which is said when quitting a task or job that is too difficult or negative, and "that's a load of old bollocks", which generally indicates contempt for a certain subject or opinion. Conversely, the word also appears in positive phrases such as "the dog's bollocks" or more simply "the bollocks", which will refer to something which is admired or well-respected.[A]
Your post may not be “ rubbish” after all Stu. However some may see the using of the afore mentioned word as a lack of understanding the queens language. Me I prefer the word rammel 👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s why I posted I never and have never snitched or reported anyone,although some have me.
Just because others do it doesn’t make it right does it.
It clearly states no swearing in the rules.
		
Click to expand...

Have you ever thought for a minute that its not actually a swear word or deemed a swear word by the GM Gestapo?


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 18, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Have you ever thought for a minute that its not actually a swear word or deemed a swear word by the GM Gestapo?
		
Click to expand...

No
Maybe it’s not that’s for them to decide.
It’s an Expletive in my vocabulary but not in others,all I know is it’s used by you and others when you clearly don’t agree with what’s written.
If the powers that be agree then so be it,carry on.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			No
Maybe it’s not that’s for them to decide.
It’s an Expletive in my vocabulary but not in others,all I know is it’s used by you and others when you clearly don’t agree with what’s written.
If the powers that be agree then so be it,carry on.
		
Click to expand...

Well report it and let them decide if it is, instead of whining on and on about it. It really is that simple.

One thing we can catergorically agree on is, its not upto you to decide whether it is or isnt.

Unless youre going to report it to the mods, i suggest you stop cryarsing and get on with the forum amd stop quoting the rules.🙄


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Wikipedia
quote
_*Bollocks*_ (/ˈbɒləks/) is a word of Middle English origin, meaning "testicles". The word is often used figuratively in British English and Hiberno-English in a multitude of negative ways; it most commonly appears as a noun meaning "rubbish" or "nonsense", an expletive following a minor accident or misfortune, or an adjective to describe something that is of poor quality or useless. It is also used in common phrases like "bollocks to this", which is said when quitting a task or job that is too difficult or negative, and "that's a load of old bollocks", which generally indicates contempt for a certain subject or opinion. Conversely, the word also appears in positive phrases such as "the dog's bollocks" or more simply "the bollocks", which will refer to something which is admired or well-respected.[A]
Your post may not be “ rubbish” after all Stu. However some may see the using of the afore mentioned word as a lack of understanding the queens language. Me I prefer the word rammel 👍
		
Click to expand...

I'll leave Rammel with you Tashy, it's your's😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 18, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I'll leave Rammel with you Tashy, it's your's😉
		
Click to expand...

You have my permission to borrow it from time to time 😁😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			You have my permission to borrow it from time to time 😁😉
		
Click to expand...

Nah, i'd have to explain what it means.....

I'll stick with my swear words😉🙄🙄


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 18, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Well report it and let them decide if it is, instead of whining on and on about it. It really is that simple.

One thing we can catergorically agree on is, its not upto you to decide whether it is or isnt.

Unless youre going to report it to the mods, i suggest you stop cryarsing and get on with the forum amd stop quoting the rules.🙄
		
Click to expand...

Oh I understand Simple alright 
As I stated I will let them decide and agree with their decision.
I don’t need to report it because that’s snidely and I’m not snidely,out in public is fine.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 18, 2021)

fundy said:



			disgusting not to mention utterly stupid stamp by the clown

seriously Arteta get rid
		
Click to expand...

Grim…


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2021)

Can anyone explain how Newcastle didn't get a penalty there?


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 19, 2021)

Surely there needs to be an investigation into how VAR is being applied. It's embarrassing watching the Newcastle Man city game.


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can anyone explain how Newcastle didn't get a penalty there?
		
Click to expand...

I've used this word multiple times in relation to VAR..... it's pure and utter incompetence.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can anyone explain how Newcastle didn't get a penalty there?
		
Click to expand...

It would be easier to explain nuclear physics.  Utterly laughable decision.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can anyone explain how Newcastle didn't get a penalty there?
		
Click to expand...

shocking decision. If that was against us I would of said something


----------



## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can anyone explain how Newcastle didn't get a penalty there?
		
Click to expand...

Ryan Fraser. There’s your answer.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2021)

Piece said:



			Ryan Fraser. There’s your answer.



Click to expand...

Is he that offensive? 😄


----------



## fundy (Dec 19, 2021)

Kanes off here if VAR does its job....


----------



## Dando (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Kanes off here if VAR does its job....
		
Click to expand...

Another shocking var decision


----------



## Junior (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Kanes off here if VAR does its job....
		
Click to expand...

Should have been a red that.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 19, 2021)

Joke of  decision red all day long


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 19, 2021)

Harry Kane is a lucky, lucky fella. How is that not a red?


----------



## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

Ooh, he's a lucky lad.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Kanes off here if VAR does its job....
		
Click to expand...

Why do we bother with VAR. It's pointless  if it cannot see that was a clear and obvious  error.


----------



## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is he that offensive? 😄
		
Click to expand...

The way he left Bournemouth in their hour of need. ’Turd’ and ’deserter’ are the polite terms I’ve heard 😂


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverpool will get caught again soon on the break.
Never a red


----------



## paddyc (Dec 19, 2021)

How good is TAA. Superb


----------



## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Harry Kane is a lucky, lucky fella. How is that not a red?
		
Click to expand...

Michael Masi is on VAR.


----------



## fundy (Dec 19, 2021)

paddyc said:



			How good is TAA. Superb
		
Click to expand...


lol Pat, havent you heard, he cant defend


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Kanes off here if VAR does its job....
		
Click to expand...

Do you think something has changed on this front? I don't think it was quite as bad as Xhaka yesterday but last year both of those would have gone.


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Liverpool will get caught again soon on the break.
Never a red
		
Click to expand...

It’s shin high, over the ball, studs up! A red all day long.


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think something has changed on this front? I don't think it was quite as bad as Xhaka yesterday but last year both of those would have gone.
		
Click to expand...

You read my mind!


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2021)

Dando said:



			Another shocking var decision
		
Click to expand...

If it’s the same folk in the VAR booth as the City game. They won’t. 👍


----------



## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think something has changed on this front? I don't think it was quite as bad as Xhaka yesterday but last year both of those would have gone.
		
Click to expand...

At least Xhaka got the ball first 😉. All Kane got was the ankle with his studs.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol Pat, havent you heard, he cant defend 

Click to expand...

If he can pass, shoot, score goals the way he does who cares about defending


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 19, 2021)

That is a shocking miss.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Liverpool will get caught again soon on the break.
Never a red
		
Click to expand...

Oops spot on


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Liverpool will get caught again soon on the break.
Never a red
		
Click to expand...

Good reading of the game. If only Dele Ali could finish


----------



## Junior (Dec 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Liverpool will get caught again soon on the break.
Never a red
		
Click to expand...

You were right.  Dele Alli


----------



## paddyc (Dec 19, 2021)

Piece said:



			At least Xhaka got the ball first 😉. All Kane got was the ankle with his studs.
		
Click to expand...

I think with Xhaka he stayed on his feet.Kane clearly not


----------



## Junior (Dec 19, 2021)

Great game for a neutral


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

Junior said:



			Great game for a neutral
		
Click to expand...

Yes so open it’s ridiculous


----------



## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverpool just look so open at the back, Spurs could have had three or four!
Oh, and Liverpool's goalie, just .


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2021)

Looks like VAR is turned off today


----------



## Dando (Dec 19, 2021)

How is that not a penalty?


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

Alison ,certainly starting to play like a woman


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 19, 2021)

VAR incompetence X 2 so far. Absolute joke.


----------



## Dando (Dec 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			It’s shin high, over the ball, studs up! A red all day long.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t feed the troll


----------



## IanM (Dec 19, 2021)

Dando said:



			How is that not a penalty?
		
Click to expand...

Weird. Top 4 always get given those


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

Dando said:



			How is that not a penalty?
		
Click to expand...

He dived


----------



## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

Dando said:



			How is that not a penalty?
		
Click to expand...

Not enough for me.


----------



## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

The quality of crossing from the Liverpool backs is immense


----------



## Dando (Dec 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			He dived
		
Click to expand...

🤡


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2021)

Dando said:



			🤡
		
Click to expand...

Don’t rise to him mate


----------



## Captainron (Dec 19, 2021)

Hope there are more goals


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Harry Kane is a lucky, lucky fella. How is that not a red?
		
Click to expand...

Because he’s England captain.
Anyone else he’s off.
That’s a penalty as well 
Refs is shocking.
Good game though we could be three down.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2021)

I really can’t understand how they can look at that Kane challenge and decide it’s not a red - staggering

And the penalty was clear as day


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I really can’t understand how they can look at that Kane challenge and decide it’s not a red - staggering
		
Click to expand...

Nothing is unusual with VAR for me .
But any ref worth his salt would not need VAR there imo.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 19, 2021)

Not a red on the Kane challenge but think there was a definite penalty shout for the push. Am going to enjoy Klopp trying to avoid a fine when asked about the decisions in the first half.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I really can’t understand how they can look at that Kane challenge and decide it’s not a red - staggering
		
Click to expand...

Because he didn’t properly clatter him. He just brushed him a bit and the lad was jumping


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Not a red on the Kane challenge but think there was a definite penalty shout for the push. Am going to enjoy Klopp trying to avoid a fine when asked about the decisions in the first half.
		
Click to expand...

He should just give the ref both barrels and pay the fine.
How long can we put up with the standard of reffing in the PL.?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Because he didn’t properly clatter him. He just brushed him a bit and the lad was jumping
		
Click to expand...

You need a new telly.


----------



## Dando (Dec 19, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Not a red on the Kane challenge but think there was a definite penalty shout for the push. Am going to enjoy Klopp trying to avoid a fine when asked about the decisions in the first half.
		
Click to expand...

It was studs up, reckless, out of control and nowhere near the ball


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 19, 2021)

Dando said:



			It was studs up, reckless, out of control and nowhere near the ball
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but apart from all that it was a great tackle.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2021)

Piece said:



			At least Xhaka got the ball first 😉. All Kane got was the ankle with his studs.
		
Click to expand...

Xhaka’s tackle was way worse in my opinion. His was a deliberate stamp.

As nice as it is to see the ref not bending over for Liverpool, Kane should have seen red, as should Xhaka.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You need a new telly.
		
Click to expand...

I do want one. I’m still staying yellow though. If the useless donkey makes proper contact then he is off but he’s that clumsy that he doesn’t actually make the challenge properly.


----------



## JT77 (Dec 19, 2021)

As a Newcastle fan, VAR decisions, or lack of, no longer surprise me! Whomever is in the booth needs to shake their heads, it’s an absolute disgrace at present. 
Kane is lucky to not see red, he has a history of those tackles and always gets away with it. 
The pen shout for Liverpool is a funny one, seen them given and not given, surprised Liverpool didn’t get it to be honest though, if it was us then it wouldn’t have been, as it wasn’t when Wilson was clean through on goal v arsenal. entertaining game here though.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			VAR incompetence X 2 so far. Absolute joke.
		
Click to expand...

Am sure it will level itself out over the season 😖


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Xhaka’s tackle was way worse in my opinion. His was a deliberate stamp.

As nice as it is to see the ref not bending over for Liverpool, Kane should have seen red, as should Xhaka.
		
Click to expand...

The thing with the Zhaka challenge, did he not stop an earlier free kick, but not booked. Then put that challenge in. It reminded me of the ? Wolves player who was sent off against City the other week.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2021)

That was a stone wall pen! Liverpool getting the decisions again 🙄


----------



## Captainron (Dec 19, 2021)

Harry Kane is a DONKEY


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

TAA brilliant going forward 
Shocking defender 
Didn’t have a clue where Son was


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			That was a stone wall pen! Liverpool getting the decisions again 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Agree clumsy challenge


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Captainron said:



			I do want one. I’m still staying yellow though. If the useless donkey makes proper contact then he is off but he’s that clumsy that he doesn’t actually make the challenge properly.
		
Click to expand...

Contact has nothing to do with it.
He tried to jump over the lunge but he was so high he still got him.
Dangerous to his opponent.


----------



## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			That was a stone wall pen! Liverpool getting the decisions again 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Imo, more of a ‘could be a pen’, rather than definite.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 19, 2021)

£100m


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			£100m 

Click to expand...

Grealish


----------



## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

How many chances do Spurs need?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2021)

We know how VAR works. One week they are completely incompetent at making a decision against the ref, virtually no matter how obvious. They get criticised. Then, the next week VAR makes incredibly ridiculous calls against the original decision, they get criticised. And so on, and so forth.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Grealish

Click to expand...

So far at least we've only wasted £100m and not £200m!!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2021)

Fantastic push in the back by TAA. Might as well, officials are not giving penalties this weekend


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2021)

Anyone explain the handball rule 🤷‍♂️- that would have been ruled out last season so why not now ?


----------



## arnieboy (Dec 19, 2021)

So Liverpool get away with a push and a handball, that's ok then.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

That’s handball!!!
But why wasn’t Ali booked for the blatant dive.
Just stay on your feet and score.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Anyone explain the handball rule 🤷‍♂️- that would have been ruled out last season so why not now ?
		
Click to expand...

I give up.
Havnt got a clue what’s going on.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2021)

And one wonders why I don’t miss football.

VAR and the officials overlooking it are having a shocking day in the office.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2021)

Oops


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2021)

Are the FA doing and FIA? They don’t want Man City to get too far clear.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Anyone explain the handball rule 🤷‍♂️- that would have been ruled out last season so why not now ?
		
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Yes, I believe VAR only gives handball now if it is by the goalscorer. Think it was discussed a few weeks ago


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## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2021)

Gary Neville “ Allison has been absolutely outstanding” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 

When.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2021)

Best keeper in the world 😂


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

Another 'keeper howler to level things up.
Robertson will be lucky to stay on, very lucky.
I hope Spurs nick this, they deserve it.


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, I believe VAR only gives handball now if it is by the goalscorer. Think it was discussed a few weeks ago
		
Click to expand...

Whilst part of me gets that, had Salah not kept the move going using his hand, that goal never gets scored.  Nobody can ever convince me that’s right.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2021)

That’s got to be a red surely


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

That’s a shocker from Robbo.
How’s that worse than Kanes ,this is a joke.
Gone to the screen.


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## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, I believe VAR only gives handball now if it is by the goalscorer. Think it was discussed a few weeks ago
		
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Accidental handball not leading directly to a goal is not an offence now. Law clarified in March this year.


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

Right decision, that was just thuggery.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2021)

So they don’t send him to check the Kane tackle but they do that 🤦‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am sure it will level itself out over the season 😖
		
Click to expand...

Well I didn’t think it would be that quick 😳


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## arnieboy (Dec 19, 2021)

Definite red card.


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a shocker from Robbo.
How’s that worse than Kanes ,this is a joke.
Gone to the screen.
		
Click to expand...

One was a bad tackle, the other was thuggery.
Having said that, they both should have got red cards.


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## Billysboots (Dec 19, 2021)

Cracking game of football, but when the pundits get talking afterwards I suspect the VAR controversies will overshadow the entertainment.


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## 2blue (Dec 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			That’s got to be a red surely
		
Click to expand...

Yeah....  correct at last....  kick aimed at player is the difference.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Cracking game of football, but when the pundits get talking afterwards I suspect the VAR controversies will overshadow the entertainment.
		
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👍 VAR MOTM for me been involved in all the big talking points.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2021)

They must have just switched VAR on


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			One was a bad tackle, the other was thuggery.
Having said that, they both should have got red cards.
		
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Yes but the refs total incompetence has caused a good game to become spoilt.imo.
How come he never went to the screen for Kanes?
Absolute joke reffing.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			👍 VAR MOTM for me been involved in all the big talking points.
		
Click to expand...

Again!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2021)

There is no argument against the red card for Robbo - it’s poor but the lack of consistency is disgraceful


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## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but the refs total incompetence has caused a good game to become spoilt.imo.
How come he never went to the screen for Kanes?
Absolute joke reffing.
		
Click to expand...

They have just shown that same Kane tackle on sky. 👍

Is there still a twist 😳


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## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a shocker from Robbo.
How’s that worse than Kanes ,this is a joke.
Gone to the screen.
		
Click to expand...

Robbo has gone in with excessive force, thus a definite red.

Kane, presumably, wasn't seen as excessive. But it was dangerous imho, so should have been a red.


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

I've a funny feeling Spurs may just snatch a winner!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Piece said:



			Robin has gone in with excessive force, thus a definite red.

Kane, presumably, wasn't seen as excessive. But it was dangerous imho, so should have been a red.
		
Click to expand...

What do you have to do to be excessive ?
Knee high, over the ball, out of control clatters his op.


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## arnieboy (Dec 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			I've a funny feeling Spurs may just snatch a winner!
		
Click to expand...

Fingers crossed they do.


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## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			What do you have to do to be excessive ?
Knee high, over the ball, out of control clatters his op.
		
Click to expand...

Law 12 contains Serious Foul Play definition....both Robbo and Kane challenge come under this, imho.

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

Well, that was a cracking watch for the neutrals.
Looking forward to the Klopp interview, ooh he's going to have a moan.


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## adam6177 (Dec 19, 2021)

Spurs needed the officials and VAR today to get that point. What a horrible club and a horrible side.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2021)

Well that was a cracking game of football - brilliant 

Just a shame it was ruined by complete incompetence by the officials -its shocking


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Apart from Kane and Robbo there was hardly a nasty tackle all game but how many yellow cards did that clown give out, shocking performance from the ref and VAR.

Fair result imo.
We gave the ball away to much, and we’re caught with the high line to often .


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that was a cracking game of football - brilliant

Just a shame it was ruined by complete incompetence by the officials -its shocking
		
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Yes any player preforming like that would be dropped next game.
But he will be reffing next week.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Spurs needed the officials and VAR today to get that point. What a horrible club and a horrible side.
		
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I think you must have been watching a different game to the rest of us. They tried everything to get Liverpool a result.


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Apart from Kane and Robbo there was hardly a nasty tackle all game but how many yellow cards did that clown give out, shocking performance from the ref and VAR.

Fair result imo.
We gave the ball away to much, and we’re caught with the high line to often .
		
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2 red card challenges and plenty of cynical and niggly ones too, sometimes the players need to take some responsibility too


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## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

One decision that should have been a red for Kane (not a yellow). The rest, I don't have an issue with but then I have no horse in that game 😃


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## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

Very good game for the neutral and imo a fair result.
100% red for Kane and Robertson.

Got to question what is Covid 
I presume if you have had Covid like the Spurs players I presume you can’t train ,so therefore miraculous recoverys.


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## arnieboy (Dec 19, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Spurs needed the officials and VAR today to get that point. What a horrible club and a horrible side.
		
Click to expand...

Crikey, sour grapes or what!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			2 red card challenges and plenty of cynical and niggly ones too, sometimes the players need to take some responsibility too
		
Click to expand...

Thought the players played well apart from them two challenges.
Only one who should not get his wages is that clown of a ref.


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## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I think you must have been watching a different game to the rest of us. They tried everything to get Liverpool a result.
		
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Yup...just needed Dele from a few years ago and Spurs would have won.


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## GG26 (Dec 19, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Spurs needed the officials and VAR today to get that point. What a horrible club and a horrible side.
		
Click to expand...

That’s a pathetic and blinkered comment about another club.  Just because you’re upset that your team didn’t win does not make them a horrible club or side.


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Very good game for the neutral and imo a fair result.
100% red for Kane and Robertson.

Got to question what is Covid
I presume *if you have had Covid like the Spurs players I presume you can’t train *,so therefore miraculous recoverys.
		
Click to expand...

You can train, but it has to be alone.
With the millions they earn, I'm sure they'll all have a gym somewhere in their mansions.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 19, 2021)

Another decent game spoiled rotten by poor refereeing.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 19, 2021)

Piece said:



			Accidental handball not leading directly to a goal is not an offence now. Law clarified in March this year.
		
Click to expand...

It was anything but clarified; changed yes, clarified, no.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I think you must have been watching a different game to the rest of us. They tried everything to get Liverpool a result.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂

Just a touch too obvious


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

Harry Kane thought his was a good, strong tackle and he wasn't expecting a red as he'd got the ball.

*WHAT?*


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			It was anything but clarified; changed yes, clarified, no.
		
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Agree most of the rules they have “ clarified “ are the ones that cause most problems.


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## Bazzatron (Dec 19, 2021)

The rest of us have been getting those shocking decisions all season. 
Refereeing in this country is shocking, not one decent ref between them.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			Harry Kane thought his was a good, strong tackle and he wasn't expecting a red as he'd got the ball.

*WHAT?*

Click to expand...

To be fair Robbo probably think he was just strong in the challenge.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Spurs needed the officials and VAR today to get that point. What a horrible club and a horrible side.
		
Click to expand...

Troll alert


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## Jensen (Dec 19, 2021)

Fantastic game, credit to both teams. Thought Winks and Dele were excellent today. Emerson Royal also impressive. 
Thought Kane was lucky not to go and we got away with a penalty.
Conte has done a great job on the fitness levels and getting the team spirit back.
Allison has looked dodgy this season, particularly with the ball at his feet, I think he’s lost a bit of confidence, despite a great save from Dele and Kane.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thought the players played well apart from them two challenges.
Only one who should not get his wages is that clown of a ref.
		
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You think the VAR guy should? You sure


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## Jensen (Dec 19, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Spurs needed the officials and VAR today to get that point. What a horrible club and a horrible side.
		
Click to expand...

Horrible club and horrible side !!!! Please explain..,,,,,


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## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Fantastic game, credit to both teams. Thought Winks and Dele were excellent today. Emerson Royal also impressive.
Thought Kane was lucky not to go and we got away with a penalty.
Conte has done a great job on the fitness levels and getting the team spirit back.
Allison has looked dodgy this season, particularly with the ball at his feet, I think he’s lost a bit of confidence, despite a great save from Dele and Kane.
		
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Allison may be the new Pickford. Makes excellent saves, but throws in the odd mistake


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



*The rest of us have been getting those shocking decisions all season.*
Refereeing in this country is shocking, not one decent ref between them.
		
Click to expand...

Believe it or not the "big boys" have aswell.

The standard of refereeing is utter rubbish.

VAR isnt the issue's, its the standard of the refereeing.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Spurs needed the officials and VAR today to get that point. What a horrible club and a horrible side.
		
Click to expand...

You been on the wacky backy


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			You think the VAR guy should? You sure
		
Click to expand...

No.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			Well, that was a cracking watch for the neutrals.
Looking forward to the Klopp interview, ooh he's going to have a moan.
		
Click to expand...

Ok do you think anything he said was wrong?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Onto the game, i dont think both fouls were reds, both definite yellows and couldnt really argue if they were given reds. 

The Jota pen? Well, er its a pen.

Im not surprised With the VAR decisions, Chris Kavannagh 🤷

At 2-1 we should be seeing that out. Alisson makes a mess of his clearance.

99/100 times  he clears it no problem.


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## Bazzatron (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Believe it or not the "big boys" have aswell.

The standard of refereeing is utter rubbish.

VAR isnt the issue's, its the standard of the refereeing.
		
Click to expand...

I include us in the big boys mate. 🤣


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Bazzatron said:



			I include us in the big boys mate. 🤣
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			2 red card challenges and plenty of cynical and niggly ones too, sometimes the players need to take some responsibility too
		
Click to expand...

Apart from the Kane/Robbo cards, i cant remember any real yellow cards. Keita gets an elbow to the face and gets booked 🤣🤣


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Apart from the Kane/Robbo cards, i cant remember any real yellow cards. Keita gets an elbow to the face and gets booked 🤣🤣
		
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Keita got booked for telling the ref where to go didnt he?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Keita got booked for telling the ref where to go didnt he?
		
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After he'd been smashed in the grid by sessegnon's forearm/elbow.


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			After he'd been smashed in the grid by sessegnon's forearm/elbow.
		
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i know, I was on a sessegnon card lol


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2021)

I still like my panel opinion.

20 second video of each offense with a clear description of what youre watching happen and the resulting penalty, clean the game up in no time


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			i know, I was on a sessegnon card lol
		
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Ouch, i was on Milner card.....


On the card markets, managers are never priced up🤷


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Ouch, i was on Milner card.....


On the card markets, managers are never priced up🤷
		
Click to expand...


only ever those on the pitch playing, shame sometimes lol


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Ok do you think anything he said was wrong?
		
Click to expand...

No, not wrong, but he did say something that made me laugh.
He was criticising the ref for not giving the penalty he thought they should have had and went on to explain that the ref had the best view!
So maybe the ref could judge the situation better than Klopp as he 'had a much better view'.
But having said that, i can't think of many coaches/managers that don't moan when the match didn't go their way.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			No, not wrong, but he did say something that made me laugh.
He was criticising the ref for not giving the penalty he thought they should have had and went on to explain that the ref had the best view!
So maybe the ref could judge the situation better than Klopp as he 'had a much better view'.
But having said that, i can't think of many coaches/managers that don't moan when the match didn't go their way.
		
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He did have the best view.
But only him and the VAR ref thought it was not a pen.
Normally at least one pundit says it’s soft or not a pen but there wasn’t one.


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2021)

Amazing match. Happy with a draw of course as I thought we'd get battered, but felt we were the better side and unlucky not to win overall. Personally I'd have had Kane and Robertson challenges as both yellows - they've both gone for the ball and made a mess of it, neither was two-footed. But Robertson's certainly wasn't worse than Kane's, so if that's a red they both are. 
Didn't see the Jota one clearly, looked like nothing more than a strong shoulder barge but I could be wrong. 
I know they've changed the hand ball laws six times but the Salah hand ball on their second goal just has to be hand ball for me. They don't score if he doesn't handle it, it's that simple.
It's a shame Dele isn't sharp, produced a top save out of Allison but he could have slotted it the other side, plus he fluffed that cut across to Kane which would have been a goal if he'd have got it right. So many clear chances we should have been 4-1 up at one stage. I think both sides having unfamiliar midfields is what made it so open.
Anyway, it was a fantastic game that had everything really. Never going to complain much about a point against this Liverpool team.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Amazing match. Happy with a draw of course as I thought we'd get battered, but felt we were the better side and unlucky not to win overall. Personally I'd have had Kane and Robertson challenges as both yellows - they've both gone for the ball and made a mess of it, neither was two-footed. But Robertson's certainly wasn't worse than Kane's, so if that's a red they both are.
Didn't see the Jota one clearly, looked like nothing more than a strong shoulder barge but I could be wrong.
I know they've changed the hand ball laws six times but the Salah hand ball on their second goal just has to be hand ball for me. They don't score if he doesn't handle it, it's that simple.
It's a shame Dele isn't sharp, produced a top save out of Allison but he could have slotted it the other side, plus he fluffed that cut across to Kane which would have been a goal if he'd have got it right. So many clear chances we should have been 4-1 up at one stage. I think both sides having unfamiliar midfields is what made it so open.
Anyway, it was a fantastic game that had everything really. Never going to complain much about a point against this Liverpool team.
		
Click to expand...

Would agree most of that. But two reds 
And the pen was a bit more than a barge.
Let us know what you think when you see it.


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Would agree most of that. But two reds
And the pen was a bit more than a barge.
Let us know what you think when you see it.
		
Click to expand...

Found a Twitter video. It's a strong hip to hip challenge, he went down a bit easy but I wouldn't have complained too much if it was given. It's clumsy. We did see the same challenge not given the other way as well though in the second half, think it was Matip on Winks, just outside the box though.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Found a Twitter video. It's a strong hip to hip challenge, he went down a bit easy but I wouldn't have complained too much if it was given. It's clumsy. We did see the same challenge not given the other way as well though in the second half, think it was Matip on Winks, just outside the box though.
		
Click to expand...

Your eyes must be different to mine ???
They normally give them outside the box.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Found a Twitter video. It's a strong hip to hip challenge, he went down a bit easy but I wouldn't have complained too much if it was given. It's clumsy. We did see the same challenge not given the other way as well though in the second half, think it was Matip on Winks, just outside the box though.
		
Click to expand...

Did you watch the game live?  Hip to hip?? He ploughed through the back of him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Found a Twitter video. It's a strong hip to hip challenge, he went down a bit easy but I wouldn't have complained too much if it was given. It's clumsy. We did see the same challenge not given the other way as well though in the second half, think it was Matip on Winks, just outside the box though.
		
Click to expand...

Hip to hip 😂😂

He has gone into his back


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Where's our resident arbiter of the rules today? We need his expertise.


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Did you watch the game live?  Hip to hip?? He ploughed through the back of him.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I watched but on a small tablet and I missed the replay, haha. It wasn't through the back though he came in on his side, but Jota dived* away from him as he went down which made it look like it was in the back.

*not dived as in it was a dive I just mean the direction he falls


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## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Did you watch the game live?  Hip to hip?? He *ploughed through the back of him.*

Click to expand...

Hmmm, interesting. 
I think I must have been watching the wrong game.


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hip to hip 😂😂

He has gone into his back
		
Click to expand...




There is the point of contact, you can see he's come in sideways because his left leg is actually in front of Jota. His left arm does make contact with top of Jota's back. You can say it's a foul, I won't argue too much, but you don't need to exaggerate.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah I watched but on a small tablet and I missed the replay, haha. It wasn't through the back though he came in on his side, but Jota *dived** away from him as he went down which made it look like it was in the back.

*not dived as in it was a dive I just mean the direction he falls
		
Click to expand...

Utter bollocks.

Jota fell forward, its almost impossible for him to fall forward had he been pushed feom the side, no? 

Surely if it was side to side Jota would've fell to the side, no?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 40037

There is the point of contact, you can see he's come in sideways because his left leg is actually in front of Jota. His left arm does make contact with top of Jota's back. You can say it's a foul, I won't argue too much, but you don't need to exaggerate.
		
Click to expand...

Throw stills up all you like, watch the full tackle in real time again.

Who's exaggerating? Jota is running at a decent speed, not standing still.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Throw stills up all you like, watch the full tackle in real time again.

Who's exaggerating? Jota is running at a decent speed, not standing still.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472618265658769410


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			Hmmm, interesting.
I think I must have been watching the wrong game.
		
Click to expand...

We know youre not capable of watching any game without seeing it throught your yernited glasses 😉


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472618265658769410

Click to expand...

@Orikoru have a watch of this. 

If you run out of data let me know and i'll happily send you some data😉


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



@Orikoru have a watch of this.

If you run out of data let me know and i'll happily send you some data😉
		
Click to expand...

I watched the video before replying to ClubChamp in the first place. Obviously. 🙄
The fact is if that tackle came in on Dele Alli all the Scouse contingent here would have been saying he dived.


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## Jensen (Dec 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 40037

There is the point of contact, you can see he's come in sideways because his left leg is actually in front of Jota. His left arm does make contact with top of Jota's back. You can say it's a foul, I won't argue too much, but you don't need to exaggerate.
		
Click to expand...

Give those glasses back to Daniel Levy, we gotta way with one there 😉


----------



## Slime (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			We know youre not capable of watching any game without seeing it throught your yernited glasses 😉
		
Click to expand...

My 'yernited' glasses are currently broken, therefore everything I see is totally and utterly unbiased!
Ploughed through the back of him?
Take your glasses off, Stu, give your head a little wobble and ask yourself this one simple question;
Did he really 'plough' through the back of him?
If the answer is still yes, you're late taking your meds again.


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Give those glasses back to Daniel Levy, we gotta way with one there 😉
		
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it wasn't a foul, it could easily have been given, I'm just saying they don't need to invent nonsense like "he ploughed through the back of him" which is clearly not how it happened.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I watched the video before replying to ClubChamp in the first place. Obviously. 🙄
*The fact is if that tackle came in on Dele Alli all the Scouse contingent here would have been saying he dived*.
		
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Obvious yeah?? 

to quote your post 20190  -  Yeah I watched but on a small tablet and I missed the replay,-

Is that your best defence? 

If if if  but but but

It was a penalty regardless of whether it was a Liverpool,spurs,Arsenal,chelsea,yernited, city or even Everton player in that position. 100%

Dele Ali never got a pen because he A, went down like a sack of shit B, he wasnt in control of the ball.

2 seasons ago it was a pen, DCL got one at Anfield when he threw himself to the deck after Lovren had put his hands on him. 

I remember being told on here that when yoh put youre hands on a player in the box its a pen. That rule has changed for the better of the game.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Slime said:



			My 'yernited' glasses are currently broken, therefore everything I see is totally and utterly unbiased!
Ploughed through the back of him?
Take your glasses off, Stu, give your head a little wobble and ask yourself this one simple question;
Did he really 'plough' through the back of him?
If the answer is still yes, you're late taking your meds again.  

Click to expand...

If he comes from the side and hits jota hip to hip theres no way he falls forward. Almost impossible....

If he comes from behind and hits him he's not falling sideways is he?

No wonder this thread gets ruined on a weekly basis.


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## DanFST (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			If he comes from the side and hits jota hip to hip theres no way he falls forward. Almost impossible....

If he comes from behind and hits him he's not falling sideways is he?

No wonder this thread gets ruined on a weekly basis.
		
Click to expand...

I hate spurs, 

Jota has gone down like a sack. There's nothing in that.


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Obvious yeah??

to quote your post 20190  -  Yeah I watched but on a small tablet and I missed the replay,-

Is that your best defence?

If if if  but but but

It was a penalty regardless of whether it was a Liverpool,spurs,Arsenal,chelsea,yernited, city or even Everton player in that position. 100%

Dele Ali never got a pen because he A, went down like a sack of shit B, he wasnt in control of the ball.

2 seasons ago it was a pen, DCL got one at Anfield when he threw himself to the deck after Lovren had put his hands on him.

I remember being told on here that when yoh put youre hands on a player in the box its a pen. That rule has changed for the better of the game.
		
Click to expand...

First thing I said to ClubChamp was I've just watched the vid on Twitter.

This is a bizarrely impassioned rant when I haven't categorically said it wasn't a foul. Just that he comes in sideways rather than "through the back of him" as was stated. If you think he can get his left leg in front of the player while simultaneously barging through the back of him then he must be some kind of shape-shifter.

Anyway, bored now. Have a nice evening.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I hate spurs,

Jota has gone down like a sack. There's nothing in that.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Piece (Dec 19, 2021)

Another Barney about Liverpool not getting 16 penalties, and another whinge about refs and VAR being absolutely shocking. 🤷‍♂️😂. Just another standard week on the Football Thread 👌🤣


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			First thing I said to ClubChamp was I've just watched the vid on Twitter.

This is a bizarrely impassioned rant when I haven't categorically said it wasn't a foul. Just that he comes in sideways rather than "through the back of him" as was stated. If you think he can get his left leg in front of the player while simultaneously barging through the back of him then he must be some kind of shape-shifter.

Anyway, bored now. Have a nice evening.
		
Click to expand...

It's not a rant at all. 

It's standard physics.

Genuine question?

How can a human fall forward whilst moving forward at a decent pace if he is pushed from the side?


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## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I hate spurs,

Jota has gone down like a sack. There's nothing in that.
		
Click to expand...

There were similar challenges all over the pitch that didn’t get given as fouls.

If that’s a pen. Spurs should have had one when a Liverpool player jumped into a spur’s players back. And the one on Ali was a pen, TAA put two hands on his back. It doesn’t matter that Ali didn’t have control of the ball, a foul is a foul. Jota didn’t have control of the ball either, but I suppose that doesn’t matter 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			If he comes from the side and hits jota hip to hip theres no way he falls forward. Almost impossible....

If he comes from behind and hits him he's not falling sideways is he?

No wonder this thread gets ruined on a weekly basis.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing is impossible for Liverpool’s front 3 probably practice these moves in training.
We’ve all seen Mane and Salah produce some corkers even when not touched.
This time it probably was a penalty,but when you dive constantly the obvious ones don’t always get given.
I thought Salah the one season wonder was oblivious today also.
TAA probably the best passer since Beckham.
If Spurs had took their chances today 3 of them would have been because TAA was caught out of position.


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## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's not a rant at all.

It's standard physics.

Genuine question?

How can a human fall forward whilst moving forward at a decent pace if he is pushed from the side?
		
Click to expand...

He fell diagonally forward (due to his forward momentum of running) and to the side (because that's where the impact came from). You can see all this on the video so I don't know why you're asking me anyway.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



*There were similar challenges all over the pitch that didn’t get given as fouls.*

If that’s a pen. *Spurs should have had one when a Liverpool player jumped into a spur’s players back. *And the one on Ali was a pen, TAA put two hands on his back. It doesn’t matter that Ali didn’t have control of the ball, a foul is a foul. Jota didn’t have control of the ball either, but I suppose that doesn’t matter 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

You obviously never watched the game. 

2 fouls exactly the same as the jota incident were given in the middle of the park. Klopp was booked for pointing out this. 

Er it was outside the box so it would've been a direct free kick.......

The Ali one wasnt under tbe current refereeing laws.

Jota never had comtrol of the ball? 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's not a rant at all.

It's standard physics.

Genuine question?

*How can a human fall forward whilst moving forward at a decent pace if he is pushed from the side?*

Click to expand...

Because his forward momentum is greater than the momentum from the side which unbalances him (LiverpoolPhil tells us that it only takes a little touch to unbalance players when they are moving at speed...  )

Or he dived.

Or his forward momentum is greater than the momentum from the side which unbalances him and he dives.

Take your pick.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			He fell diagonally forward (due to his forward momentum of running) and to the side (because that's where the impact came from). You can see all this on the video so I don't know why you're asking me anyway.
		
Click to expand...

I'm asking you because you've pulled my point.

If you dont want to interact thats fine, just dont  quote what i've said.


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## DanFST (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It's not a rant at all.

It's standard physics.

Genuine question?

How can a human fall forward whilst moving forward at a decent pace if he is pushed from the side?
		
Click to expand...


Are you genuinely trolling? Have you watched a game of rugby!?(Note; they fall forward when tackled quite a bit, it's called momentum)

You can also fall forward from diving, but a Liverpool player would never do that.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Because his forward momentum is greater than the momentum from the side which unbalances him (LiverpoolPhil tells us that it only takes a little touch to unbalance players when they are moving at speed...  )

Or he dived.

Or his forward momentum is greater than the momentum from the side which unbalances him and he dives.

Take your pick. 

Click to expand...


Even the most die hard Liverpool hater cant deny that was a pen🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Are you genuinely trolling? *Have you watched a game of rugby!*?(Note; they fall forward when tackled quite a bit, it's called momentum)

You can also fall forward from diving, but a Liverpool player would never do that. 

Click to expand...

Never.

No trolling here


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 19, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Even the most die hard Liverpool hater cant deny that was a pen🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

I've no idea, I haven't seen it, but I understand Newton's Laws of Motion.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Nothing is impossible for Liverpool’s front 3 probably practice these moves in training.
We’ve all seen Mane and Salah produce some corkers even when not touched.
This time it probably was a penalty,but when you dive constantly the obvious ones don’t always get given.
I thought Salah the one season wonder was oblivious today also.
TAA probably the best passer since Beckham.
If Spurs had took their chances today 3 of them would have been because TAA was caught out of position.
		
Click to expand...

Rich coming from you with your lot🤣🤣🤣

Jota probably learnt from the master himself Ronaldo at all those Portugal training sessions 👍


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Because his forward momentum is greater than the momentum from the side which unbalances him (LiverpoolPhil tells us that it only takes a little touch to unbalance players when they are moving at speed...  )

Or he dived.

Or his forward momentum is greater than the momentum from the side which unbalances him and he dives.

Take your pick. 

Click to expand...

That maybe true.
But Klopp said the ref told him “he stopped delibaretly “so how can he be moving forward as well as stopped.
He’s making it up.
Any football fan knows that’s a foul and so a pen.
Jotta had the ball at his feet and was about to shoot.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2021)

Oh I do love the salty tears of Liverpool fans when they don’t get their own way.  It’s like watching a toddler have a tantrum in a supermarket.

It wasn’t outside the box, it was on the line. On the line counts as in the box. I know the commentator said it was outside, but they were wrong.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

Its funny how its gone from a strong shoulder barge to a hip to hip contact to Jota diving 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Oh I do love the salty tears of Liverpool fans when they don’t get their own way.  It’s like watching a toddler have a tantrum in a supermarket.

It wasn’t outside the box, it was on the line. On the line counts as in the box. I know the commentator said it was outside, but they were wrong.
		
Click to expand...

No tears here and accepted the result. 👍


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## Hobbit (Dec 19, 2021)

Great game for the neutral. How Spurs weren’t out of sight by half time…

Kane; red card. Dangerous tackle, the guy was lucky not to get his leg broken.

Jota; penalty. Those that think otherwise need to give up their driving licence before they kill someone.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			There were similar challenges all over the pitch that didn’t get given as fouls.

If that’s a pen. Spurs should have had one when a Liverpool player jumped into a spur’s players back. And the one on Ali was a pen, TAA put two hands on his back. It doesn’t matter that Ali didn’t have control of the ball, a foul is a foul. Jota didn’t have control of the ball either, but I suppose that doesn’t matter 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Ah, I see your having to make things up for your 2nd attempt at a crap wind-up.


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## davemc1 (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			classy lol
		
Click to expand...

At least I’m saying what I mean, and not some snidey smart arsed comment.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Newton's Laws of footy fan Emotion. 

Click to expand...

How's that Rich?


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## Billysboots (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			classy lol
		
Click to expand...

I’m being deliberately polite and non-confrontational at the moment as I can see a lockdown coming, and I’ll need this forum to keep me entertained. Not a good time to be getting a red card and three match ban 😇


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## Billysboots (Dec 19, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I've no idea, I haven't seen it, but I understand Newton's Laws of Motion. 

Click to expand...

I’m having flashbacks. Behave yourself 😉


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## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ah, I see your having to make things up for your 2nd attempt at a crap wind-up. 

Click to expand...

Football is a game of opinions. You were lucky to get a point and salty because you weren’t handed a result on a plate. 

At least you’ve got 3 easy points to look forward to on Boxing Day.


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			At least I’m saying what I mean, and not some snidey smart arsed comment.
		
Click to expand...


no youre not youre generalising, some would say in a snidey, smart arsed way, if you want to call someone out call them out


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m being deliberately polite and non-confrontational at the moment as I can see a lockdown coming, and I’ll need this forum to keep me entertained. Not a good time to be getting a red card and three match ban 😇
		
Click to expand...


only Liverpool getting a red card this weekend  hence the last 3 pages lol


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Spurs needed the officials and VAR today to get that point. What a horrible club and a horrible side.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry lad, but this is out of order.

I'm disappointed with today's result, decisions and performance, but to say that about Spurs is not only wrong but crass.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Football is a game of opinions. You were lucky to get a point and salty because you weren’t handed a result on a plate.

At least you’ve got 3 easy points to look forward to on Boxing Day.
		
Click to expand...

It is a game of opinions, but also a game were uber-biased haters see things that just arent there like you did. Oo, you've talked about Leeds, a slip of the pen by you?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2021)

I missed the first 15 mins today so only just see some of the early chances on MOTD.

Would it be reasonable to speculate that TAA has more ability in his left foot than Wan Bissaka has in his right peg?

Part time telly clapper, me.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I missed the first 15 mins today so only just see some of the early chances on MOTD.

Would it be reasonable to speculate that TAA has more ability in his left foot than Wan Bissaka has in his right peg?

Part time telly clapper, me. 

Click to expand...

I think most PL footballers have more ability in their weaker foot than Wan Bissaka has in his right.


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I missed the first 15 mins today so only just see some of the early chances on MOTD.

Would it be reasonable to speculate that TAA has more ability in his left foot than Wan Bissaka has in his right peg?

Part time telly clapper, me. 

Click to expand...


I hear twitters good if you dont have pics


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I think most PL footballers have more ability in their weaker foot than Wan Bissaka has in his right.
		
Click to expand...

Ah, but not according to the Yeovil telly clapper on here.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			I hear twitters good if you dont have pics 

Click to expand...

You dont need twitter to communicate with twits.


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## Billysboots (Dec 19, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I think most PL footballers have more ability in their weaker foot than Wan Bissaka has in his right.
		
Click to expand...

Even Phil Jones?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Even Phil Jones?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, even Phil Jones.

5-6 years ago, I thought he was going to be the next Bryan Robson - honest!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2021)

Just seen the Newcastle non penalty.
That just about sums up refereeing for me.
Absolute crap.


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## larmen (Dec 20, 2021)

VAR could be massively improved if all important decisions were to be made by Alan Sheerer.


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## Foxholer (Dec 20, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I've no idea, I haven't seen it, but I understand Newton's Laws of Motion. 

Click to expand...

Specially how 'equal and opposite reaction' doesn't just apply to motion!


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 20, 2021)

karma 😂😂😏


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## Swango1980 (Dec 20, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Even Phil Jones?
		
Click to expand...

That is why I said most. I nearly used Phil Jones as a direct comparison to AWB, but I just couldn't do it. If a ball was rolling along the ground to be kicked, Jones would try and head it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2021)

If only Everton v Leicester hadn't been called off yesterday. The last few pages would have been much calmer as people admired Everton's graceful 3-0 win 😉😁


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## Hobbit (Dec 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If only Everton v Leicester hadn't been called off yesterday. The last few pages would have been much calmer as people admired Everton's graceful 3-0 win 😉😁
		
Click to expand...

Stay away from the drinks cupboard


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## GG26 (Dec 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If only Everton v Leicester hadn't been called off yesterday. The last few pages would have been much calmer as people admired Everton's graceful 3-0 win 😉😁
		
Click to expand...

Yes and to rub it in Demarai Grey would get a hat-trick continuing a vein of form that he couldn’t produce in four years at Leicester.


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## BrianM (Dec 20, 2021)

How Kane never seen red was a joke, that's a leg breaker if caught.
Seen Gary Neville wanted to give Man of the Match to Robertson before he was sent off, who got it in the end?
The standard of referring in England as well as Scotland is shocking at the moment.


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## Jensen (Dec 20, 2021)

BrianM said:



			How Kane never seen red was a joke, that's a leg breaker if caught.
Seen Gary Neville wanted to give Man of the Match to Robertson before he was sent off, who got it in the end?
The standard of referring in England as well as Scotland is shocking at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I noticed that Neville didn’t elaborate. Would be interesting to see who actually got it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Stay away from the drinks cupboard 

Click to expand...

I tried to lighten the mood........


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## Neilds (Dec 20, 2021)

I hope all the people who are calling for a break in the football don’t come out later and complain that they are playing too often when they have to catch up matches. Last season, Rotherham United missed a lot of games with 2 outbreaks of CV and also weather and ended playing about 12 games in a month- and with a much smaller squad than most premier league clubs. Little wonder they got relegated 😡


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## Tashyboy (Dec 20, 2021)

Flippin eck, am glad I went out for an Indian last night.

That said, and I have said this before. VAR is run by the incompetent buffoons who make incompetent decisions on the pitch.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Yes, I noticed that Neville didn’t elaborate. Would be interesting to see who actually got it.
		
Click to expand...

Who do u think it was?


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## Swango1980 (Dec 20, 2021)

Spurs are now out of the Europa Conference League. As Spurs could not fulfil their fixture against Rennes due to 13 positive Covid cases at Spurs, UEFA have given Rennes a 3-0 win.

I wonder if UEFA are taking Covid seriously, and have enough contingency plans? Imagine the uproar if the Premier League started awarding 3-0 wins to teams last weekend, as matches were called off due to Covid.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2021)

BrianM said:



			How Kane never seen red was a joke, that's a leg breaker if caught.
Seen Gary Neville wanted to give Man of the Match to Robertson before he was sent off, who got it in the end?
The standard of referring in England as well as Scotland is shocking at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Are u saying he wasn’t caught?


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Spurs are now out of the Europa Conference League. As Spurs could not fulfil their fixture against Rennes due to 13 positive Covid cases at Spurs, UEFA have given Rennes a 3-0 win.

I wonder if UEFA are taking Covid seriously, and have enough contingency plans? Imagine the uproar if the Premier League started awarding 3-0 wins to teams last weekend, as matches were called off due to Covid.
		
Click to expand...

3-0 Probably about right


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Spurs are now out of the Europa Conference League. As Spurs could not fulfil their fixture against Rennes due to 13 positive Covid cases at Spurs, UEFA have given Rennes a 3-0 win.

I wonder if UEFA are taking Covid seriously, and have enough contingency plans? Imagine the uproar if the Premier League started awarding 3-0 wins to teams last weekend, as matches were called off due to Covid.
		
Click to expand...

When I played golf with my spurs friend he was telling me UEFA had extended the deadline for the game for spurs because it was like real madrid being out the champs league spurs not being in this because they were one the big players

lol didnt work out

to be fair spurs should have been through before this game anyways  , the standard of the football they played against wasnt great

can see them going on a run now tho without europe to worry about and with conte at the wheel with the january window coming and these games that should have been played with this squad being able to use the new players i think they will benefit from all the mess


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## BrianM (Dec 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Are u saying he wasn’t caught?
		
Click to expand...

He was caught, but if his leg was still planted it would of been broken.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2021)

BrianM said:



			He was caught, but if his leg was still planted it would of been broken.
		
Click to expand...

Who knows 
It takes extreme force for that to happen.


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## BrianM (Dec 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Who knows
It takes extreme force for that to happen.
		
Click to expand...

Obviously we will never know (Thankfully)
I don't support Liverpool, but you obviously have a dislike for them I'm assuming 
It shouldn't matter who you support, you don't want to see tackles like that.
Robertson's red was right as well, although he wasn't really going to injure the boy, the red mist appeared.
I've played and seen enough football to know that was a shocking challenge and VAR never did his job.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Obviously we will never know (Thankfully)
I don't support Liverpool, but you obviously have a dislike for them I'm assuming 
It shouldn't matter who you support, you don't want to see tackles like that.
Robertson's red was right as well, although he wasn't really going to injure the boy, the red mist appeared.
I've played and seen enough football to know that was a shocking challenge and VAR never did his job.
		
Click to expand...

Obviously you will have to go back a few pages but I have said both were reds.
No var didn’t do it’s job but we are getting used to that.
These var officials need to face the media and ask them why they came to their decision.
Yes major dislike for Liverpool but I also never want to see a player seriously injured whoever they play for.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 20, 2021)

BrianM said:



			Obviously we will never know (Thankfully)
I don't support Liverpool, but you obviously have a dislike for them I'm assuming 
It shouldn't matter who you support, you don't want to see tackles like that.
Robertson's red was right as well, although he wasn't really going to injure the boy, the red mist appeared.
I've played and seen enough football to know that was a shocking challenge and VAR never did his job.
		
Click to expand...

I think both were probably red. 

In terms of intent, we'll never 100% know. But, I am pretty sure Kane never meant to injure his opponent. He simply flew in to an aggressive challenge to try and win the ball. It was out of control, and ultimately he could have broken Robertson's ankle. So, I do not think there'd be too many arguments if he was given a red card. Not because he had a deliberate intent to hurt an opponent, but because he was out of control.

However, I'm not sure you can say Robertson had no intent to injure, especially when you also acknowledge the term red mist. When any player gets the red mist, it often means that they act in an aggressive manner knowing that the opponent is likely to get hurt. I'm not saying he wanted to cause him serious damage, but in that second of the red mist appearing, he had battered his opponent, knowing full well what he was doing.


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			I think both were probably red.

In terms of intent, we'll never 100% know. But, I am pretty sure Kane never meant to injure his opponent. He simply flew in to an aggressive challenge to try and win the ball. It was out of control, and ultimately he could have broken Robertson's ankle.* So, I do not think there'd be too many arguments if he was given a red card.* Not because he had a deliberate intent to hurt an opponent, but because he was out of control.

However, I'm not sure you can say Robertson had no intent to injure, especially when you also acknowledge the term red mist. When any player gets the red mist, it often means that they act in an aggressive manner knowing that the opponent is likely to get hurt. I'm not saying he wanted to cause him serious damage, but in that second of the red mist appearing, he had battered his opponent, knowing full well what he was doing.
		
Click to expand...

Well, Kane doesn't agree, he said he thought he won the ball and was surprised to get a yellow card. Love the feller but I had a good laugh at that one. Won the ball with his arm maybe.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Well, Kane doesn't agree, he said he thought he won the ball and was surprised to get a yellow card. Love the feller but I had a good laugh at that one. Won the ball with his arm maybe. 

Click to expand...

That is why I said "most". And, in all fairness, you can take what Kane says to the media with a pinch of salt. Even if he thinks he was lucky not to get sent off, why would he come out in the media and admit that? Procedures probably wouldn't allow it anyway, but it wouldn't work in his favour if he said he should have been sent off, and then the FA were to give him a ban (he'd have no real defence). Even though they probably could not give a retrospective ban, it might edge officials in future making a subjective call against him, rather than for him. 

If I made that challenge and got away with no red card, I'd be telling the public it wasn't a red card, and my feeling at the time was that I "thought" I had won it. In private, I would be laughing with my mates saying I got away with one.


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			That is why I said "most". And, in all fairness, you can take what Kane says to the media with a pinch of salt. Even if he thinks he was lucky not to get sent off, why would he come out in the media and admit that? Procedures probably wouldn't allow it anyway, but it wouldn't work in his favour if he said he should have been sent off, and then the FA were to give him a ban (he'd have no real defence). Even though they probably could not give a retrospective ban, it might edge officials in future making a subjective call against him, rather than for him.

If I made that challenge and got away with no red card, I'd be telling the public it wasn't a red card, and my feeling at the time was that I "thought" I had won it. In private, I would be laughing with my mates saying I got away with one.
		
Click to expand...

I just thought it was funny. I thought he might say yes I was a touch late and a yellow card was fair enough. To say he won the ball though was a cracker. As I said, he only won it with him arm! I'm not sure that counts. 😆


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## Swango1980 (Dec 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I just thought it was funny. I thought he might say yes I was a touch late and a yellow card was fair enough. To say he won the ball though was a cracker. As I said, he only won it with him arm! I'm not sure that counts. 😆
		
Click to expand...

It does if Salah does it in a build up to a Liverpool goal


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Who knows
It takes extreme force for that to happen.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, an out of control, lunging 12 stone England captain is easily enough, or not on this occasion.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			It does if Salah does it in a build up to a Liverpool goal 

Click to expand...

Come on, you've got to give Mo some elbow room.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 20, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Spurs are now out of the Europa Conference League. As Spurs could not fulfil their fixture against Rennes due to 13 positive Covid cases at Spurs, UEFA have given Rennes a 3-0 win.

I wonder if UEFA are taking Covid seriously, and have enough contingency plans? Imagine the uproar if the Premier League started awarding 3-0 wins to teams last weekend, as matches were called off due to Covid.
		
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Think Spurs are pleased about that to be honest. Never thought they were very interested in the competition.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I just thought it was funny. I thought he might say yes I was a touch late and a yellow card was fair enough. To say he won the ball though was a cracker. As I said, he only won it with him arm! I'm not sure that counts. 😆
		
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It did for Mo.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Agreed, an out of control, lunging 12 stone England captain is easily enough, or not on this occasion.
		
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I hope the refs and var officials when looking at Kane don’t see him as England captain I certainly don’t.
On this occasion I don’t think the force would have been enough,but as I said who knows.
One thing a lot of people talk about is “if the leg was planted “ fortunately this doesn’t happen too often,in fact it’s rare.
The human mind seems to act fast enough for players to take evasive action.
Thought Klopps post match interview was very fair


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Think Spurs are pleased about that to be honest. Never thought they were very interested in the competition.
		
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The players who played in it didn't look like they were anyway. Given that we have 3 games in hand to fit in already I'm sure we won't be bothered about the lack of more games.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			The players who played in it didn't look like they were anyway. Given that we have 3 games in hand to fit in already I'm sure we won't be bothered about the lack of more games.
		
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I just don't get it, trophy is a trophy 

Win it.. it's something in the cabinet and on the CV 

Same with Carling cup if he don't go all out what's the point? More teams should take it seriously


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I just don't get it, trophy is a trophy

Win it.. it's something in the cabinet and on the CV

Same with Carling cup if he don't go all out what's the point? More teams should take it seriously
		
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I'd agree if we were talking Europa but this competition really was a nonsense to be frank. More comps just devalues it more than ever. We're nearly at a point where top half of the Prem gets you in Europe, it's a bit silly. 

If we won that comp I don't think everyone would have been satisfied that we'd now won a trophy. They'd have just changed the message to say we haven't won a _proper_ trophy for X years. Nobody would respect it.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			I hope the refs and var officials when looking at Kane don’t see him as England captain I certainly don’t.
On this occasion I don’t think the force would have been enough,but as I said who knows.
One thing a lot of people talk about is “if the leg was planted “ fortunately this doesn’t happen too often,in fact it’s rare.
The human mind seems to act fast enough for players to take evasive action.
Thought Klopps post match interview was very fair
		
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It was more than enough to break a leg, a straight on sliding tackle onto the shin breaks the leg 90-100% of the time if the foot is planted.

Yes they do take evasive action, but the tackles have been judged on the potential rather than the actual for a long time, although I do have some sympathy with some challenges where the receiver has placed his foot in a different place at the last minute and the tackler has followed through onto it in error, normally when tackling from the side though. This wasnt one of them, though.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2021)

Premier League will be going ahead (as it stands)

13 available players plus a keeper 

Could make for some cracking matches lol


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## GB72 (Dec 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Premier League will be going ahead (as it stands)

13 available players plus a keeper

Could make for some cracking matches lol
		
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Yeah that could set the cat amongst the pidgeons as far as having to play is concerned.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Yeah that could set the cat amongst the pidgeons as far as having to play is concerned.
		
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Wonder if a team had 13 available plus a keeper if suddenly the keeper put some lemon juice in the lft and tested positive ... Just in time for the game to be called off as PCR would be too long wait


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Premier League will be going ahead (as it stands)

13 available players plus a keeper

Could make for some cracking matches lol
		
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There could be some fabulous teams put out. Imagine a side with all of its defenders out? I want to see city with sterling and Mahrez at centre back 😂 It could be like kids football.

We have some clarity now but I'll be intrigued if they have the bottle to hold clubs to those numbers.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There could be some fabulous teams put out. Imagine a side with all of its defenders out? I want to see city with sterling and Mahrez at centre back 😂 It could be like kids football.

We have some clarity now but I'll be intrigued if they have the bottle to hold clubs to those numbers.
		
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Tbh it would be brilliant! Lol

Total football or big Sam style 10 defenders and a keeper lol

And youth players would get a chance


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## BiMGuy (Dec 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Premier League will be going ahead (as it stands)

13 available players plus a keeper

Could make for some cracking matches lol
		
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We’ll be lucky if we are able to put out an U23 side on Boxing Day. Despite it potentially being their easiest win of the season. I’m sure the  Liverpool fans will still find something to cry about.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Tbh it would be brilliant! Lol

Total football or big Sam style 10 defenders and a keeper lol

And youth players would get a chance
		
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Rafa saw this coming. It's why we played the kids against Chelsea 😉. We are ready.

It could be good fun but I foresee a good amount of managerial strops coming up. I tend to agree with your lemon post as well. It will happen.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There could be some fabulous teams put out. Imagine a side with all of its defenders out? I want to see city with sterling and Mahrez at centre back 😂 It could be like kids football.

We have some clarity now but I'll be intrigued if they have the bottle to hold clubs to those numbers.
		
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We did most of last season.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Rafa saw this coming. It's why we played the kids against Chelsea 😉. We are ready.

It could be good fun but I foresee a good amount of managerial strops coming up. I tend to agree with your lemon post as well. It will happen.
		
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Be nice to see some young lads get a game.
Might be the making of our next superstar.
Just hope Southgate is watching.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Be nice to see some young lads get a game.
Might be the making of our next superstar.
Just hope Southgate is watching.
		
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Quite often it is strange circumstances that give youngsters a chance. Could be an injury crisis, a transfer ban as per Chelsea. Good can come out of it although I doubt teams at the very top or bottom will see it that way.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Premier League will be going ahead (as it stands)

13 available players plus a keeper

Could make for some cracking matches lol
		
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Phil Jones will be going into complete isolation to avoid Covid, whilst he hopes Covid sweeps through the rest of the team, so long as 13 other players stay fit.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2021)

My son, Toon fan, is very excited about this. 'Losing half of our team can't make us any worse but other teams................it will bring them down to our level' 🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59721355

each time I see all three issues it’s staggering how they didn’t give a red card to Kane and penalties for Liverpool and Newcastle 

it’s embarrassing when it was just the ref making the decision but it’s worse when backed up by a complete idiot who watches it again and still agrees with the ref 

Even worse when spanner’s like Walton stick up for them


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2021)

One other knock on effect is going to be the transfer window, the big boys who can afford to arent going to be letting as many out on loan this year, some clubs trying to strengthen going to find limitied opportunities unless they have a bottomless chequebook youd think


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2021)




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## clubchamp98 (Dec 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Quite often it is strange circumstances that give youngsters a chance. Could be an injury crisis, a transfer ban as per Chelsea. Good can come out of it although I doubt teams at the very top or bottom will see it that way.
		
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You missed Everton might find a striker


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			You missed Everton might find a striker

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We can only hope 😄.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 20, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Wonder if a team had 13 available plus a keeper if suddenly the keeper put some lemon juice in the lft and tested positive ... Just in time for the game to be called off *as PCR would be too long wait*

Click to expand...

Not with the rapid turnaround of some of the tests now. I had a PCR test this morning at 10-09. At 11-14 I got an email to say that the result had come back negative. With the millions of pounds swirling around the PL I'm sure they can afford £160 for a rapid result PCR test.

But I do agree that some teams will try it on if it gets close to the call off threshold.


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## Jensen (Dec 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Who do u think it was?
		
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It was Harry Winks for me 👍


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2021)

Jensen said:



			It was Harry Winks for me 👍
		
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Yes had a very solid game,his best in a very long time.


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We can only hope 😄.
		
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Bring back “Big Dunc”!


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2021)

well the championships suddenly looking wide open again.  few weeks ago looked a 2 horse race between Bournemouth and Fulham, both not won in 5 now and plenty of other sides starting to fancy their chances. be a big january tfr window for a few of them too


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## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2021)

Odd one. Coufal wrongly sent off against arsenal, can't appeal 2 yellows. However he was meant to be banned for Norwich which was suspended 

Now banned for Spurs cup game? That just seems stupid. Surely the fairer thing would be to ban him for the rescheduled match .. bet Norwich are pleased


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2021)

Just seen a fascinating piece on sky sports news about west Midlands police having a specialist hate crime police officer who works at football grounds, West Brom, Wolves and Birmingham were mentioned and shown. He works with the other police, stewards etc at the grounds to identify any racism and make arrests. Fans are given a number to use if they hear or see anything and officers can move in quickly. 

It seemed to work well, good initiative. If it crops up again it's well worth a watch.


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## fundy (Dec 20, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just seen a fascinating piece on sky sports news about west Midlands police having a specialist hate crime police officer who works at football grounds, West Brom, Wolves and Birmingham were mentioned and shown. He works with the other police, stewards etc at the grounds to identify any racism and make arrests. Fans are given a number to use if they hear or see anything and officers can move in quickly.

It seemed to work well, good initiative. If it crops up again it's well worth a watch.
		
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I read about this the other day, seems hes the only one in the country though, could do with a team of them sadly


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			I read about this the other day, seems hes the only one in the country though, could do with a team of them sadly
		
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I did wonder if there were others. Disappointing if this is the only scheme but hopefully other forces and clubs will see the piece and investigate further. The officer involved spoke very well, he was a real credit.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 21, 2021)

fundy said:



			I read about this the other day, seems hes the only one in the country though, could do with a team of them sadly
		
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That’s the plan 
12 of them apparently


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## fundy (Dec 21, 2021)

lol Dominos, spurs fans not taken it so well though....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472885677947817986


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 21, 2021)

May have been mentioned earlier but Foden and Grealish. Unbeliebable, lost for words except to say 2 privileged foolish young men.


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## adam6177 (Dec 21, 2021)

I see Klopp will face no further action for his comments after the game the other night.

Whilst I'm surprised I can only assume it's because he has them bang to rights. Still expected a fine however.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 21, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			I see Klopp will face no further action for his comments after the game the other night.

Whilst I'm surprised I can only assume it's because he has them bang to rights. Still expected a fine however.
		
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Might be they just want silence.
Fining him will just keep the story going.
But another manager saying the same thing may well find himself in trouble.
Really poor and inconsistent.


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## nickjdavis (Dec 21, 2021)

Pile in on Man U getting a penalty against Newcastle next Tuesday. 

Has been announced that the ref for the game is Craig Pawson who was in the VAR hotseat for the Man City game. 

Not sure how the refs are decided but surely someone has lost a bit of common sense appointing Pawson immediately after the furore surrounding the non VAR penalty decision on Sunday.


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## fundy (Dec 21, 2021)

Easy enough win against Sunderland

Shop window hat trick for Nketiah, all the headlines for 18 yr old Patino coming on for his debut and scoring


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 21, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			May have been mentioned earlier but Foden and Grealish. Unbeliebable, lost for words except to say 2 privileged foolish young men.
		
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One of those surprises me, the other one doesn't.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 21, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			One of those surprises me, the other one doesn't.
		
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I hope one don’t lead the other astray. 😡


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 21, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I hope one don’t lead the other astray. 😡
		
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I fear he already has, and he has previous for this sort of thing.


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## DanFST (Dec 21, 2021)

PGMOL have told west ham Coufal should not have been sent off vs Arsenal. 

Still banned for our quarter final tomorrow because Norwich couldn't field a side due to covid. What's the point?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			PGMOL have told west ham Coufal should not have been sent off vs Arsenal.

Still banned for our quarter final tomorrow because Norwich couldn't field a side due to covid. What's the point?
		
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Personally I think he should be banned for the Norwich rematch ..

Have always thought (but it's a logistical nightmare) that a 3 game ban should be next 2 games then next game against the team you got the card against ... Well mainly when it's missed in game then banned retrospective because like how does that benefit the team involved? We have had it a few times


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## Swango1980 (Dec 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Personally I think he should be banned for the Norwich rematch ..

Have always thought (but it's a logistical nightmare) that a 3 game ban should be next 2 games then next game against the team you got the card against ... Well mainly when it's missed in game then banned retrospective because like how does that benefit the team involved? We have had it a few times
		
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Probably work out well for a player who makes a horrific challenge in second half of season, against a team likely to get relegated.


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## JT77 (Dec 22, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Pile in on Man U getting a penalty against Newcastle next Tuesday.

Has been announced that the ref for the game is Craig Pawson who was in the VAR hotseat for the Man City game.

Not sure how the refs are decided but surely someone has lost a bit of common sense appointing Pawson immediately after the furore surrounding the non VAR penalty decision on Sunday.
		
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I don’t get how these appointments are made for games. He should be demoted for a round of games, as should others who have made clear an obvious errors.
Can’t see it happening though as there would be no one to ref any games.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 22, 2021)

JT77 said:



			I don’t get how these appointments are made for games. He should be demoted for a round of games, as should others who have made clear an obvious errors.
Can’t see it happening though as there would be no one to ref any games.
		
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Clear and obvious errors are a thing of the past. Remember, VAR was introduced to solve that...


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## Tashyboy (Dec 22, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59754899

another charge against Mendy. If found guilty, Throw the key away. I believe 5 different women have made claims. Apparently there had been reporting restriction, Why?
Another plank earning to much money thinking they can do as they please. Makes Balotelli look like a Saint.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59754899

another charge against Mendy. If found guilty, Throw the key away. I believe 5 different women have made claims. *Apparently there had been reporting restriction, Why?*
Another plank earning to much money thinking they can do as they please. Makes Balotelli look like a Saint.
		
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He has to go to trial first of all. If found guilty I am sure they will be lifted.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He has to go to trial first of all. If found guilty I am sure they will be lifted.
		
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The 27-year-old was charged last week with the latest offence but it was subject to reporting restrictions.
These restrictions were lifted earlier as Mr Mendy appeared at Chester Crown Court for a hearing ahead of his trial.
The latest charge relates to a new complainant and is alleged to have taken place in July this year.
Am not sure why that was that they were lifted early?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The 27-year-old was charged last week with the latest offence but it was subject to reporting restrictions.
These restrictions were lifted earlier as Mr Mendy appeared at Chester Crown Court for a hearing ahead of his trial.
The latest charge relates to a new complainant and is alleged to have taken place in July this year.
Am not sure why that was that they were lifted early?
		
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No idea either. Personally, I think accused people are entitled not to have things plastered everywhere as they have not been found guilty at this point. We also need the jury to have a clear mind before the trial.

If found guilty....................


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59754899

another charge against Mendy. If found guilty, Throw the key away. I believe 5 different women have made claims. Apparently there had been reporting restriction, Why?
Another plank earning to much money thinking they can do as they please. Makes Balotelli look like a Saint.
		
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Any chance the media will use a picture of the right Mendy when they report this...

https://news.sky.com/story/chelseas...in-mendy-whos-been-charged-with-rape-12471419


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## Tashyboy (Dec 22, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Any chance the media will use a picture of the right Mendy when they report this...

https://news.sky.com/story/chelseas...in-mendy-whos-been-charged-with-rape-12471419

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I remember reading it at the time. Don’t it just sum up journalism at times though ☹️😖


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2021)

Thought Leicester wanted to postpone the game yet playing pretty much their strongest team 🤷‍♂️


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2021)

Spurs v West Ham a decent watch for the neutral. Not sure about Reguilon and if he was offside for Spurs' second goal. Have they got VAR in the Mickey Mouse Cup?


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2021)

4th official has just told the ref to give a foul for Spurs. Didn't know that they were allowed to get involved in that sort of thing. It was a foul and the ref missed it but still didn't think 4th official could give it.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Spurs v West Ham a decent watch for the neutral. Not sure about Reguilon and if he was offside for Spurs' second goal. Have they got VAR in the Mickey Mouse Cup?
		
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Probably not that’s why it’s a good game.
Great finish from Bowen.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			4th official has just told the ref to give a foul for Spurs. Didn't know that they were allowed to get involved in that sort of thing. It was a foul and the ref missed it but still didn't think 4th official could give it.
		
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Moyes looked like he didn’t as well.
They never used to but the rules change so much it’s possible.
Isn’t it the Lino’s job?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			4th official has just told the ref to give a foul for Spurs. Didn't know that they were allowed to get involved in that sort of thing. It was a foul and the ref missed it but still didn't think 4th official could give it.
		
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They used to be never allowed...must be now


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Moyes looked like he didn’t as well.
They never used to but the rules change so much it’s possible.
Isn’t it the Lino’s job?
		
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Fancy the West Ham player getting caught 😁. You have to laugh at the cheek of Moyes moaning about that. Was it a foul? Yes, shut up 😆.

No idea if it was the 4th official or whether that person is allowed to get involved. If it is the right decision though........


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## Fade and Die (Dec 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fancy the West Ham player getting caught 😁. You have to laugh at the cheek of Moyes moaning about that. Was it a foul? Yes, shut up 😆.

No idea if it was the 4th official or whether that person is allowed to get involved. If it is the right decision though........
		
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Shame the 4th official didn’t spot that Skip should have been booked too.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Shame the 4th official didn’t spot that Skip should have been booked too.
		
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That’s the problem if they start getting involved.
The managers are to close .


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Spurs v West Ham a decent watch for the neutral. Not sure about Reguilon and if he was offside for Spurs' second goal. Have they got VAR in the Mickey Mouse Cup?
		
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Liverpool v Leicester looking like an even better watch for the neutrals.


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## fundy (Dec 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Liverpool v Leicester looking like an even better watch for the neutrals.
		
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cant be any worse than watching spurs time waste repeatedly and the ref do nothing about it


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## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			cant be any worse than watching spurs time waste repeatedly and the ref do nothing about it
		
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For such a "Viking" holberg goes down like a sack of spuds


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## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2021)

Conte is a brave manager , saved by lloris having a blinder .. why not kill the game? 

Convinced Ali will return when he cuts that awful Barnet


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## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2021)

Shame we are out the cup but don't mind losing when the team play like that.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Conte is a brave manager , saved by lloris having a blinder .. why not kill the game?

Convinced Ali will return when he cuts that awful Barnet
		
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Same as David James. He became a better keeper when he stopped messing around with his hairstyles.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2021)

😂😂😂

How the hell did we win that


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## fundy (Dec 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂😂

How the hell did we win that
		
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sounds like a game from this comp last year....................


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## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Same as David James. He became a better keeper when he stopped messing around with his hairstyles.
		
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I think the off season when he was with us where he spent it with the miami dolphins perfecting his long kicks and handling helped a lot


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂😂

How the hell did we win that
		
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“You” won it on penalties 🤷‍♂️


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## Beezerk (Dec 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Convinced Ali will return when he cuts that awful Barnet
		
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Ali’s arrogance will stop him being a top level player, not his hair 😂


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## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Ali’s arrogance will stop him being a top level player, not his hair 😂
		
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Think the two are linked ... Only someone will a certain level of arrogance thinks they can pull that off....


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2021)

Semi Final Draw

Arsenal vs Liverpool

Chelsea vs Spurs


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Semi Final Draw

Arsenal vs Liverpool

Chelsea vs Spurs
		
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Considering that it's a Mickey Mouse cup that none of the big teams take seriously there's still four out of the top six clubs in the country in the semi finals.


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## fundy (Dec 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Semi Final Draw

Arsenal vs Liverpool

Chelsea vs Spurs
		
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getting deja vu feelings lol

1 leg or two and Afcon or not?


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## fundy (Dec 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Considering that it's a Mickey Mouse cup that none of the big teams take seriously there's still four out of the top six clubs in the country in the semi finals.
		
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still dont get why some of the mid table sides dont take a proper shot at it, but ultimately they play into the big teams with the deep squads hands


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## adam6177 (Dec 22, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Considering that it's a Mickey Mouse cup that none of the big teams take seriously there's still four out of the top six clubs in the country in the semi finals.
		
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2 of the top 6.... + Arsenal and spurs. 😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			still dont get why some of the mid table sides dont take a proper shot at it, but ultimately they play into the big teams with the deep squads hands
		
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Leicester did tonight 😆

Happy to see them lose , couple days ago saying they wanted to postpone because of Covid , nice big break , play a strong line up , fans with their poverty chants -and get knocked out 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Dec 22, 2021)

must be some sized sofa Barca have found 50m down the back off to buy Ferren Torres


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			must be some sized sofa Barca have found 50m down the back off to buy Ferren Torres 

Click to expand...

“Bank loan” apparently but they still need to get some players off the wage bill - Coutinho and Umitti will prob leave in Jan


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## fundy (Dec 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“Bank loan” apparently but they still need to get some players off the wage bill - Coutinho and Umitti will prob leave in Jan
		
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I guess Aguerro is part of the wage bill saving


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## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			cant be any worse than watching spurs *time waste repeatedly and the ref do nothing about it*

Click to expand...

That sounds like Leicester in our game tonight And Wolves/Villa  in recent weeks.....

It must be a  Mdlands tactic😉


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## Tashyboy (Dec 22, 2021)

fundy said:



			must be some sized sofa Barca have found 50m down the back off to buy Ferren Torres 

Click to expand...

By all accounTs, Barca have found some money at the ban, but before Torres goes anywhere Barca have to offload some players. Wonder where coutinho goes 🤔
That said City don’t have to pay any bonuses to Valencia coz he was not at City that long. Hope City save the brass and put it towards a striker/ Haaland.


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## Orikoru (Dec 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			By all accounTs, Barca have found some money at the ban, but before Torres goes anywhere Barca have to offload some players. Wonder where coutinho goes 🤔
That said City don’t have to pay any bonuses to Valencia coz he was not at City that long. Hope City save the brass and put it towards a striker/ Haaland.
		
Click to expand...

I don't understand why he's going. I thought he was doing excellently before the injury, and seemed to be being trained up as the new striker.


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## Foxholer (Dec 22, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			They used to be never allowed...must be now
		
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I believe 'assists the Referee at all times...' is the relevant part of his/her duties.


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## fundy (Dec 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't understand why he's going. I thought he was doing excellently before the injury, and seemed to be being trained up as the new striker.
		
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Can only assume he wants to go home and Pep is facilitating it. Am a big fan, would have him at Arsenal in a heartbeat (over and above any of the other City players arteta is linked to)


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## Tashyboy (Dec 22, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't understand why he's going. I thought he was doing excellently before the injury, and seemed to be being trained up as the new striker.
		
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Totally agree with you, he was bought as competition for Stirling, Foden etc. in that time Foden has kicked on And now Stirling has stopped sulking. He was then used as a striker but round leg and square hole comes to mind.Yet he does it for Spain.


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## Foxholer (Dec 22, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			That sounds like Leicester in our game tonight And Wolves/Villa  in recent weeks.....

It must be a  Mdlands tactic😉
		
Click to expand...

I'd suspect it's a universal tactic when ahead - until Ref pulls them up on it.


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## fundy (Dec 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Totally agree with you, he was bought as competition for Stirling, Foden etc. in that time Foden has kicked on And now Stirling has stopped sulking. He was then used as a striker but round leg and square hole comes to mind.Yet he does it for Spain.
		
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Better player than Sterling and different position to Foden imo, may well indicate something else in the pipeline for City this January youd think, not as if they need to sell!!!!!


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## Foxholer (Dec 22, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Totally agree with you, he was bought as competition for Stirling, Foden etc. in that time Foden has kicked on And now Stirling has stopped sulking. He was then used as a striker but round leg and square hole comes to mind.Yet he does it for Spain.
		
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No longer needed then. Or done his job of incentivising the others.
Management isn't simply about picking the team!


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Leicester did tonight 😆

Happy to see them lose , couple days ago saying they wanted to postpone because of Covid , nice big break , play a strong line up , fans with their poverty chants -and get knocked out 😂😂😂
		
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Poverty chants??
Did you hear these chants first hand?
Or rumours on social media?


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## fundy (Dec 22, 2021)

have a night off troll


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## Swango1980 (Dec 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Leicester did tonight 😆

Happy to see them lose , couple days ago saying they wanted to postpone because of Covid , nice big break , play a strong line up , fans with their poverty chants -and get knocked out 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Maybe is was a lot of their squad players that couldn't play due to Covid? If so, Brendan might have had little choice but to field a stronger side?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“Bank loan” apparently but they still need to get some players off the wage bill - Coutinho and Umitti will prob leave in Jan
		
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Barcelona would love that but by all accounts they are on peak wages, won't take a cut, why should they?, and are happy to sit their contracts out. If they move them on it might still be at a heck of a price, in pay off or part payment of wages.

I hope UEFA are keeping a very careful eye on their books but I wont be holding my breath.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			I'd suspect it's a universal tactic when ahead - until Ref pulls them up on it.
		
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Yes all teams do it.
Time is right for a timekeeper  who stops the clock until ball is back in play.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			I'd suspect it's a universal tactic when ahead - until Ref pulls them up on it.
		
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Why?

Do you see Liverpool and city time wasting when ahead, unless its the last 10 minutes?

Lots of teams time waste when it is level from the 1st minute.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why?

*Do you see Liverpool and city time wasting when ahead, unless its the last 10 minutes?*

Lots of teams time waste when it is level from the 1st minute.
		
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So all teams waste time then? 😂
It’s called game management.

Some teams just start earlier or when losing.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			Better player than Sterling and different position to Foden imo, may well indicate something else in the pipeline for City this January youd think, not as if they need to sell!!!!!
		
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I liked him, he was a very good technical footballer. Unfortunately Barca turned his head and he wanted to leave to play more football. Which I understand.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why?

Do you see Liverpool and city time wasting when ahead, unless its the last 10 minutes?

Lots of teams time waste when it is level from the 1st minute.
		
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Why would the better team in a match try and waste time from the start of the game? 

Is it OK to waste time in last 10 minutes, but not before that?


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why?

Do you see Liverpool and city time wasting when ahead, unless its the last 10 minutes?

Lots of teams time waste when it is level from the 1st minute.
		
Click to expand...

Is that just because 0-0 is a great result for some teams against Us and City.?
But trying for a draw for “90” mins is tough.


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why?

Do you see Liverpool and city time wasting when ahead, *unless its the last 10 minutes*?
....
		
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The phrase 'should've taken the 5th' springs to mind!
And for clarification...I wasn't meaning 'always/consistently timewaste', simply that it's a tactic that they use when considerate appropriate.


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			So all teams waste time then? 😂
It’s called game management.

Some teams just start earlier or *when losing*.
		
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Can't really see the point in that - at least not when in posession.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Can't really see the point in that - at least not when in posession.
		
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Ave seen City “ waste time “ on countless occasions. Against the better teams 1-0, 2-1 it’s just keep ball, why push for another. Against lessers teams again it’s keep ball but 4-0 can turn into 6 or 7 nil. I think most teams have done    It. One of the worst by a country mile is Burnley.


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## fundy (Dec 23, 2021)

And the first 2 boxing day cancellations are in, Leeds Liverpool and Wolves Watford both off, roll up roll up whos next


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## fundy (Dec 23, 2021)

Time wasting itself is bad enough, it being classified under the latest buzz word term of "game management" really does my head in. Its cheating, blow up ref, add the time on and book the offender


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Ave seen City “ waste time “ on countless occasions. Against the better teams 1-0, 2-1 it’s just keep ball, why push for another. Against lessers teams again it’s keep ball but 4-0 can turn into 6 or 7 nil. I think most teams have done    It. One of the worst by a country mile is Burnley.
		
Click to expand...

So, (collective) state of mind! 'Don't let oppo get a chance to 'come back' if narrowly leading. But no danger of that if up by 4. If down by 4, then saving face is more likely the reason - or simply tactically out-maneuvered.


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			Time wasting itself is bad enough, it being classified under the latest buzz word term of "game management" really does my head in. Its cheating, blow up ref, add the time on and book the offender
		
Click to expand...

Just remember that there's a difference between 'time wasting' and 'a waste of time' Former is a conscious tactic; latter more likely simply the inability to probe the other teams defences/conscious 'positive' tactics simply not working/are being successfully countered.
And it's not 'cheating', imo, to control the game by knocking the ball around between team-mates, in the middle of the field, when near end of game and up by 1. That's definitely 'game management' imo. Onus is on the trailing team to regain the ball!


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## fundy (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Just remember that there's a difference between 'time wasting' and 'a waste of time' Former is a conscious tactic; latter more likely simply the inability to probe the other teams defences/conscious 'positive' tactics simply not working/are being successfully countered.
And it's not 'cheating', imo, to control the game by knocking the ball around between team-mates, in the middle of the field, when near end of game and up by 1. That's definitely 'game management' imo. Onus is on the trailing team to regain the ball!
		
Click to expand...


where did i say passing about yourself is timewasting? im talking about 30 seconds for the keeper to take a goal kick, or switching sides of the goal for the goal kick, swapping players taking a throw in 3 times etc, you know actual timewasting. if youve got the ball on the field you can do what you want with it, up to the other side to come and get it


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			where did i say passing about yourself is timewasting? im talking about 30 seconds for the keeper to take a goal kick, or switching sides of the goal for the goal kick, swapping players taking a throw in 3 times etc, you know actual timewasting. if youve got the ball on the field you can do what you want with it, up to the other side to come and get it
		
Click to expand...

We agree!


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2021)

4 replies. 

Firstly, all sides have and will do it but some more than others.

However, it is robbing the fans of action, although the telly clappers may be happy as can go and make a brew at goal kicks.

Refs warning them 4 times, pointing to their watch and only booking a keeper with 10 minutes to go is a "managed" reaction by all refs. If the keeper does it 3-4 times in the first half, book him then and also have a word with the captain if all the other defenders are taking it in turn, with a "next one who does it is booked", and the one after that......


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## BiMGuy (Dec 23, 2021)

The Scousers complaining about fixture congestion over Christmas. Then complaining the Boxing Day game is called off! 🤷🏼‍♂️😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			The Scousers complaining about fixture congestion over Christmas. Then complaining the Boxing Day game is called off! 🤷🏼‍♂️😂
		
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Only complaints I have seen is from people who have made arrangements including hotels or flights but now have to cancel etc and it also will push the game further on down the line. Suspect the manager and players will be glad of the rest


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## pokerjoke (Dec 23, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			The Scousers complaining about fixture congestion over Christmas. Then complaining the Boxing Day game is called off! 🤷🏼‍♂️😂
		
Click to expand...

Klopp finally getting his wish
Can’t think of anyone who has moaned more about fixture congestion,and he’s done it ever since he arrived in England 
Absolute 🛎


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2021)

Rent free, even when our games are called off.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Rent free, even when our games are called off. 

Click to expand...

If you say so. We’re all just amused by the Scousers constantly crying about something. Especially when what they are crying about now is contradictory to what they were previously crying about 🤦


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## pokerjoke (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Rent free, even when our games are called off. 

Click to expand...

Your manager is a bloody whingebag pure and simple.
He’s been whining so much lately they’ve actually gave in to him.
Can’t wait to your season ends trophy less.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			4 replies. 

Firstly, all sides have and will do it but some more than others.

However, it is robbing the fans of action, although the telly clappers may be happy as can go and make a brew at goal kicks.

Refs warning them 4 times, pointing to their watch and only booking a keeper with 10 minutes to go is a "managed" reaction by all refs. If the keeper does it 3-4 times in the first half, book him then and also have a word with the captain if all the other defenders are taking it in turn, with a "next one who does it is booked", and the one after that......
		
Click to expand...

I would say that the top teams don't time waste; they see a game out through game management, but the ball is in play.  Others will take an eternity to get the ball back into play.  Two very different things in my book.

Bring in a timekeeper; the only teams it will hurt are the time wasters, not the game managers.


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			...
Refs warning them 4 times, pointing to their watch and only booking a keeper with 10 minutes to go is a "managed" reaction by all refs. If the keeper does it 3-4 times in the first half, book him then and also have a word with the captain _if all the other defenders are taking it in turn, with a "next one who does it is booked", and the one after that....._.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think fans are too concerned about time wasted until late in games. If they are, then I'm pretty sure they'll make their displeasure known! Keeper time-wasting is specifically mentioned in The Rules! There's probably a bit of leeway given to keepers (whether there should be is a different question) purely because of their 'unique' position. 
Re italicised bit...Ref has to be consistent about all decisions. Would/should he do the same (upgrade 'next') for dodgy fouls? Yellow, yes. But not Red imo.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			I don't think fans are too concerned about time wasted until late in games. If they are, then I'm pretty sure they'll make their displeasure known! Keeper time-wasting is specifically mentioned in The Rules! There's probably a bit of leeway given to keepers (whether there should be is a different question) purely because of their 'unique' position.
Re italicised bit...Ref has to be consistent about all decisions. Would/should he do the same (upgrade 'next') for dodgy fouls? Yellow, yes. But not Red imo.
		
Click to expand...

If the keeper gets yellow for time wasting then does it again he should be sent off. Imo.
That’s consistent and I am sure all others would pay attention in the future.
But the poor standard of refereeing means that just won’t happen.
That’s why a timekeeper is a good idea I think.


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## nickjdavis (Dec 23, 2021)

Unfortunately a timekeeper is not the answer as real fans need to know when the game will actually end so they can leave five minutes early to beat the rush.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Your manager is a bloody whingebag pure and simple.
He’s been whining so much lately they’ve actually gave in to him.
Can’t wait to your season ends trophy less.
		
Click to expand...

You do realise that many things Jurgen moaned about were also instigated, equally raised or latterly raised by Ole, as well as Pep, Tuchel etc?

Then again you probably didnt, cos you're daft these days and you have a warped mind.


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Unfortunately a timekeeper is not the answer as real fans need to know when the game will actually end so they can leave five minutes early to beat the rush.

Click to expand...


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Unfortunately a timekeeper is not the answer as real fans need to know when the game will actually end so they can leave five minutes early to beat the rush.

Click to expand...

Just put a clock in the ground that is controlled by the timekeeper.
So he/ she stops it when the balls out of play and starts it when the ball is back in play.
For those who like to leave early they could play the countdown music five mins from the end


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## fundy (Dec 23, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just put a clock in the ground that is controlled by the timekeeper.
So he/ she stops it when the balls out of play and starts it when the ball is back in play.
For those who like to leave early they could play the countdown music five mins from the end

Click to expand...


thats great until the 12.30 KO is still going at 3pm when the embargo starts haha


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxholer said:



*I don't think fans are too concerned about time wasted until late in games*. If they are, then I'm pretty sure they'll make their displeasure known! Keeper time-wasting is specifically mentioned in The Rules! There's probably a bit of leeway given to keepers (whether there should be is a different question) purely because of their 'unique' position.
Re italicised bit...Ref has to be consistent about all decisions. Would/should he do the same (upgrade 'next') for dodgy fouls? Yellow, yes. But not Red imo.
		
Click to expand...

You think wrong.  Certain teams waste time from the first minute and fans are not happy about the referees doing nothing about it.


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			If the keeper gets yellow for time wasting then does it again he should be sent off. Imo.
That’s consistent and I am sure all others would pay attention in the future.
But the poor standard of refereeing means that just won’t happen.
That’s why a timekeeper is a good idea I think.
		
Click to expand...

Consistent...Perhaps. Spoiling the game?...Possibly a bit more than perhaps! It the natural (?) reluctance for Refs to actually send a GK off for (second offence of)  'timewasting' that's the cause - imo. It would need either a very brave/independent Ref (and I'm not certain there's too many of those) or published/publicised decrees/agreements with Managers that that's 'how it's going to be'. 
And FWIW, here's the sort of chaos that can happen when GKs get sent off!


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			You think wrong.  Certain teams waste time from the first minute and fans are not happy about the referees doing nothing about it.
		
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OK/IYO. Which ones? And how?


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			OK/IYO. Which ones? And how?
		
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In my opinion and that of the vast majority, if not all of season ticket holders that sit around us.  Most teams in the lower half of the Premiership do it but Burnley are by far the worst.  Numerous false starts for goal kicks & throw ins, arguing amongst the defence to delay retrieving the dead ball & restarting, "cramp" which is bad enough to warrant going down but never quite bad enough to require leaving the field for treatment, keepers laying on the ball unnecessarily to name a few. 

So how do you conclude that it doesn't bother fans; which matches do you go to, & how frequently?


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## pokerjoke (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			You do realise that many things Jurgen moaned about were also instigated, equally raised or latterly raised by Ole, as well as Pep, Tuchel etc?

Then again you probably didnt, cos you're daft these days and you have a warped mind.






Click to expand...

Love that episode 
Surely you must be sick of Klopps whining.
He’s become more predictable than Liverpool Phil liking all your posts


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			In my opinion and that of the vast majority, if not all of season ticket holders that sit around us.  Most teams in the lower half of the Premiership do it but Burnley are by far the worst.  Numerous false starts for goal kicks & throw ins, arguing amongst the defence to delay retrieving the dead ball & restarting, "cramp" which is bad enough to warrant going down but never quite bad enough to require leaving the field for treatment, keepers laying on the ball unnecessarily to name a few.

So how do you conclude that it doesn't bother fans; which matches do you go to, & how frequently?
		
Click to expand...

I've only gone to half a dozen matches, but I certainly WATCH a lot more.
Never seen particular deliberate instances in any of them early on - but, as previously stated, certainly some in the last 10-15 mins or so.
You may be getting a distorted 'sample' from observing the performance of 'your' team!


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			In my opinion and that of the vast majority, if not all of season ticket holders that sit around us.  Most teams in the lower half of the Premiership do it but Burnley are by far the worst.  ...
		
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Well, that's a truly representative sample then! 
Not saying it's wrong; just a huge amount of potential bias!
Do you agree?


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## fundy (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Well, that's a truly representative sample then! 
Not saying it's wrong; just a huge amount of potential bias!
Do you agree?
		
Click to expand...

yet you claiming to watch a few games on tv is a decent representative sample for it not happening?

certainly happens in the first half in plenty of premier league games, or at least the ones i get to telly clap


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			yet you *claiming to watch a few* games on tv...
		
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Utter Twaddle! Even allowing for the dodgy 'English'!
Evidence or apology required! FWIW 'a lot more' as in post 20403!
If you attempt to misinterpret my post in that way, how can/should anyone believe anything you post!


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## fundy (Dec 23, 2021)

and another idiot added to the list...........


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



Only complaints I have seen is from people  have made arrangements including hotels or flights but now have to cancel etc and it also will push the game further on down the line. Suspect the manager and players will be glad of the rest
		
Click to expand...

If they supported their local teams they wouldnt be affected 😉


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Well, that's a truly representative sample then! 
Not saying it's wrong; just a huge amount of potential bias!
Do you agree?
		
Click to expand...

You're obviously on the wind up, goodnight.  Actually, goodbye.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxholer said:



*I don't think fans are too concerned about time wasted until late in games.* If they are, then I'm pretty sure they'll make their displeasure known! Keeper time-wasting is specifically mentioned in The Rules! There's probably a bit of leeway given to keepers (whether there should be is a different question) purely because of their 'unique' position.
Re italicised bit...Ref has to be consistent about all decisions. Would/should he do the same (upgrade 'next') for dodgy fouls? Yellow, yes. But not Red imo.
		
Click to expand...

Can you clarify what type of fan youre meaning? Is it the Telly clapper or the match going one because i can catergorically disagree if its the latter.


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			You're obviously on the wind up, goodnight.  Actually, goodbye.
		
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Admission of defeat then! No probs; bye!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Klopp finally getting his wish
*Can’t think of anyone who has moaned more about fixture congestion*,and he’s done it ever since he arrived in England
Absolute 🛎
		
Click to expand...

That's convenient, though it gives you another excuse for a cheap dig🙄🙄


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## Foxholer (Dec 23, 2021)

fundy said:



			and another idiot <one who disgrees with me> added to the list...........
		
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FTFY! Btw...Phew!


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 23, 2021)

Seen on the club website that we are now required to submit an online form stating our vaccination status or providing evidence of a negative test, and that we are symptom free; anyone else noticed this?

And I wonder if the same applies to travelling fans; if not, I wonder what the point is?

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2...on-for-fans-attending-brighton-home-game---de


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## Billysboots (Dec 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Seen on the club website that we are now required to submit an online form stating our vaccination status or providing evidence of a negative test, and that we are symptom free; anyone else noticed this?

And I wonder if the same applies to travelling fans; if not, I wonder what the point is?

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2...on-for-fans-attending-brighton-home-game---de

Click to expand...

Utterly pointless having different rules for home and visiting supporters. Almost as mad as Cardiff and Swansea fans not being able to watch a home game but being able to travel to watch their side play in England.

🙄


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Love that episode
Surely you must be sick of Klopps whining.
He’s become more predictable than Liverpool Phil liking all your posts 

Click to expand...

Some of it yes, most of it, no.

I like the xmas fixtures, and wish he wouldnt carry on talking about that.

The 12.30 ko's after CL games - totally agree, as did Ole who brought it up first, and look the questioning/moaning worked and isnt happening now. 

Did you call Fergie's moaning out, who was probably for most the worst moaner ever along with Mourinho (wonder what they had in common), or do you only look out for our manager?


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## 4LEX (Dec 23, 2021)

Time wasting is the biggest bugbear in football after refs/var. But I don't blame the players or the teams; I blame the refs for allowing it so it's on them aswell. If a team is doing it, add on 10 mins plus. Book/send players off. It could be sorted out within a few weeks if teams were punished for it. But no, the refs allow it and hardly add on any time even when theres multiple examples of it. Fake injuries, slow goal kicks, slow subs etc.

The game shouldn't be stopped unless it's serious. Anytime the game is stopped for treatment, the in question player should be made to stay off for 5 minutes. You'd see faking of injuries cut down by 99% right away.

Nothing is better than seeing a team timewasting get done with a late goal


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 23, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Some of it yes, most of it, no.

I like the xmas fixtures, and wish he wouldnt carry on talking about that.

The 12.30 ko's after CL games - totally agree, as did Ole who brought it up first, and look the questioning/moaning worked and isnt happening now.

Did you call Fergie's moaning out, who was probably for most the worst moaner ever along with Mourinho (wonder what they had in common), or do you only look out for our manager?
		
Click to expand...

Come on Sinbad,Fergie got some right stick from opposition fans over the years.
Liverpool fans are just way more sensitive.
Same if anyone dares to say that a opposition player is better than one of yours.
Just love a drama 🤷‍♂️🎻


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Love that episode
Surely you must be sick of Klopps whining.
He’s become more predictable than Liverpool Phil liking all your posts 

Click to expand...

Reply 2

Strikes talked about by Pep.

Ralf at man U saying about how Johnny foreigner does it and possibly suggesting we should "look at" if we continue with the league cup.

Rafa saying he can't get enough players, but only one story in Tony's mind.

Wibble.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Seen on the club website that we are now required to submit an online form stating our vaccination status or providing evidence of a negative test, and that we are symptom free; anyone else noticed this?

And I wonder if the same applies to travelling fans; if not, I wonder what the point is?

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2...on-for-fans-attending-brighton-home-game---de

Click to expand...

Had to do one for West Ham/Southampton on Boxing Day before they would send the e tickets. Pointless box ticking exercise.
 Be interesting how the Covid passport is monitored at the turnstiles, since WH went over to all digital tickets it’s been chaos most weeks. The idea of the under pressure staff trying to get people to put their phones into the scanner slot the right way round AND check the passport is a joke.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 23, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Had to do one for West Ham/Southampton on Boxing Day before they would send the e tickets. Pointless box ticking exercise.
Be interesting how the Covid passport is monitored at the turnstiles, since WH went over to all digital tickets it’s been chaos most weeks. The idea of the under pressure staff trying to get people to put their phones into the scanner slot the right way round AND check the passport is a joke.
		
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Don’t start me on tickets. Premier League games is an electronic card. Anything else, we get emailed a paper ticket to print at home.  Why they just can’t enable your season ticket card for the cup matches you buy is a mystery.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 24, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Time wasting is the biggest bugbear in football after refs/var. But I don't blame the players or the teams; I blame the refs for allowing it so it's on them aswell. If a team is doing it, add on 10 mins plus. Book/send players off. It could be sorted out within a few weeks if teams were punished for it. But no, the refs allow it and hardly add on any time even when theres multiple examples of it. Fake injuries, slow goal kicks, slow subs etc.

The game shouldn't be stopped unless it's serious. Anytime the game is stopped for treatment, the in question player should be made to stay off for 5 minutes. You'd see faking of injuries cut down by 99% right away.

*Nothing is better than seeing a team timewasting get done with a late goal* 

Click to expand...

☝️This.

We've seen it recently at Wolves and on Wednesday  night in the cup.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 24, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Some of it yes, most of it, no.

*I like the xmas fixtures, and wish he wouldnt carry on talking about that.*

The 12.30 ko's after CL games - totally agree, as did Ole who brought it up first, and look the questioning/moaning worked and isnt happening now.

Did you call Fergie's moaning out, who was probably for most the worst moaner ever along with Mourinho (wonder what they had in common), or do you only look out for our manager?
		
Click to expand...

I wish the media would stop asking him about it, but just like the 1230 ko's it provides them with news and clicks.

He's spot on actually, the way some are harping on about him you'd think he was asking to cancel christmas fixtures. 

You've missed Wenger, Moyes,Allardyce off your list too.


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## Junior (Dec 24, 2021)

Being a referee is an awful job.  They have to deal with players diving, time wasting, simulation,   (the most annoying for me are the ones going down holding their face so the ref has to stop the game), managers shouting / jesticulating to wind up the crowd,  and,  of course the millions of bias fans who of course can do their job better than they can.

How do you fix it?  Not easy but I think having a game timer and stopping the clock for injuries is a start.  Also, stronger punishments for yellow cards (2 or 3 and a match ban?) and more of them may see teams conduct themselves differently.

Hopefully the end product would be less tactical fouling, it would curtail some of the simulation, time-wasting  and finally, any player / manager surrounding the referee should also be a yellow.


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## Foxholer (Dec 24, 2021)

Junior said:



			Being a referee is an awful job.  They have to deal with players diving, time wasting, simulation,   (the most annoying for me are the ones going down holding their face so the ref has to stop the game), managers shouting / jesticulating to wind up the crowd,  and,  of course the millions of bias fans who of course can do their job better than they can.

How do you fix it?  Not easy but I think having a game timer and stopping the clock for injuries is a start.  Also, stronger punishments for yellow cards (2 or 3 and a match ban?) and more of them may see teams conduct themselves differently.

Hopefully the end product would be less tactical fouling, it would curtail some of the simulation, time-wasting  and finally, any player / manager surrounding the referee should also be a yellow.
		
Click to expand...

Sin Bin?


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## pokerjoke (Dec 24, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Some of it yes, most of it, no.

I like the xmas fixtures, and wish he wouldnt carry on talking about that.

The 12.30 ko's after CL games - totally agree, as did Ole who brought it up first, and look the questioning/moaning worked and isnt happening now.

Did you call Fergie's moaning out, who was probably for most the worst moaner ever along with Mourinho (wonder what they had in common), or do you only look out for our manager?
		
Click to expand...

Always look for anything to do with Liverpool first because then I can post it on here and you can reply and Phil can like your post so he feels he’s part of the Liverpool supporters group
Seriously most managers moan,yes Fergie right up there but he got slaughtered by everyone.
Klopp has always slated English football and how it’s run and how we play to many games,however it doesn’t stop the big teams playing mini tournaments before the season starts,because then it’s all about money.
Klopp has been relentless lately and now he’s got his wish.
Didn’t here what our manager said but they feel German football has got it right,if that’s the case both can go back.
I’m with you about the Xmas period and agree about 12.30 kick offs.
Covid is just being used by some as an excuse for injuries I believe.Could be wrong but it’s even happened in our kids league.


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## Piece (Dec 24, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Seen on the club website that we are now required to submit an online form stating our vaccination status or providing evidence of a negative test, and that we are symptom free; anyone else noticed this?

And I wonder if the same applies to travelling fans; if not, I wonder what the point is?

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2...on-for-fans-attending-brighton-home-game---de

Click to expand...

Ours is optional.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 24, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Reply 2

Strikes talked about by Pep.

Ralf at man U saying about how Johnny foreigner does it and possibly suggesting we should "look at" if we continue with the league cup.

Rafa saying he can't get enough players, but only one story in Tony's mind.

Wibble.
		
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I’m not sure why you waste your time mate - better to ignore 👍


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## Fade and Die (Dec 24, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don’t start me on tickets. Premier League games is an electronic card. Anything else, we get emailed a paper ticket to print at home.  Why they just can’t enable your season ticket card for the cup matches you buy is a mystery.
		
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We used to have a card season ticket which if you bought cup games etc they would be loaded onto it. It was great, never any problems and worked for years. Not now though, it’s just e-tickets that they email you on a game by game basis, you either put them into your electronic wallet on your phone or print it off at home then fold them up to fit in the reader slot. It causes hassle every match with older fans struggling with mobiles or dads trying to get kids/Mrs/ through then get In themselves. 

On the subject of Christmas fixture they was saying on Talksport that games on Christmas Day used to be common, with Everton (way back in time when they played at Anfield) once played twice on Christmas Day then again on Boxing Day!…Wonder if they had more than a 25 man squad?😀


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## Swango1980 (Dec 24, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Time wasting is the biggest bugbear in football after refs/var. But I don't blame the players or the teams; I blame the refs for allowing it so it's on them aswell. If a team is doing it, add on 10 mins plus. Book/send players off. It could be sorted out within a few weeks if teams were punished for it. But no, the refs allow it and hardly add on any time even when theres multiple examples of it. Fake injuries, slow goal kicks, slow subs etc.

The game shouldn't be stopped unless it's serious. Anytime the game is stopped for treatment, the in question player should be made to stay off for 5 minutes. You'd see faking of injuries cut down by 99% right away.

Nothing is better than seeing a team timewasting get done with a late goal 

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about forcing a player to stay off for 5 minutes. If a player genuinely gets hurt, you are punishing that team by being down a man for 5 minutes. 

I know it has been mentioned, but always wondered why play cannot continue, like in rugby, whilst a player gets treated? The medical staff can make a quick assessment. If the feel the injury is serious, and the player needs to come off, they can communicate to the ref who can stop the game. This will ensure the player can get the extensive treatment, and that team is not punished by being a man down. However, that player will need to be subbed.

With subs generally, could these not be done whilst game is in progress? A msg just needs to be sent to ref to day sub(s) will soon be made. The 4th official can ensure theaw are done correctly, with one player leaving the field before another enters. 

With general time wasting, a ref just needs to note any incidents and make it known to players it is a time wasting incident. Players can be booked as normal. However, if 3 incidents are noted in any half, the ref can then add an additional 5 minutes to game on top of any other injury time that had to be played. Teams could also.face extra penalties, such as fines or points deductions, if they are guilty of this in a specified number of games.


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## Piece (Dec 24, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			In my opinion and that of the vast majority, if not all of season ticket holders that sit around us.  Most teams in the lower half of the Premiership do it but Burnley are by far the worst.  Numerous false starts for goal kicks & throw ins, arguing amongst the defence to delay retrieving the dead ball & restarting, "cramp" which is bad enough to warrant going down but never quite bad enough to require leaving the field for treatment, keepers laying on the ball unnecessarily to name a few.

So how do you conclude that it doesn't bother fans; which matches do you go to, & how frequently?
		
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I don't agree with a time keeper but in certain games you know that as a fan you've been done, time wise. Many subs, injuries, time wasting and yet how often do you get a min of three mins added at the end?

And BIM is spot on. Burnley are the worse at time wasting and spoiling. 🤨


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## Tashyboy (Dec 24, 2021)

Burnley V Everton postponed on Boxing Day, just had a look at league table. At the end of Boxing Day City and other teams wil have played 4 more games than Burnley.Games played by teams are all over the place. From Feb to the end of the seasons the fixture list will be all over the place 😖


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## Tashyboy (Dec 24, 2021)

Ave said this before and I will say it again. There is a difference between a player who is hurt and a player who is injured. Most players who are injured know it. And they sit on there Jacksys waiting to be subbed.
Most players who are “ hurt” and I use that term very very loosely roll around and scream like they have been shot by a Jap sniper. Players use this “ hurt” to waste time, stop play, stop the rhythm of opposing teams, protect a lead or draw. If the game is stopped for two mins. Keep him off the pitch for two mins. Simple.
Re time wasting, I said it quite a few pages back. Burnley are the worst. If a red card tackle in the first minute is the same as the last. Why is time wasting in the first minute treated differently from the last 20 minutes. Every game I have seen Burnley play, it is the same from the first minute. Throw ins, corners, goal kicks, free kicks.it is purgatory. Keepers holding the ball for 6 seconds, really. Ave been for a tiddle and bought a pie in the time Nick Pope has held onto the ball.


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 24, 2021)

All these postponements are playing havoc with my fantasy football. Don't these people think about the impact they have on mini leagues?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 24, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



*Always look for anything to do with Liverpool first because then I can post it on here and you can reply and Phil can like your post so he feels he’s part of the Liverpool supporters group*
Seriously most managers moan,yes Fergie right up there but he got slaughtered by everyone.
Klopp has always slated English football and how it’s run and how we play to many games,however it doesn’t stop the big teams playing mini tournaments before the season starts,because then it’s all about money.
Klopp has been relentless lately and now he’s got his wish.
Didn’t here what our manager said but they feel German football has got it right,if that’s the case both can go back.
I’m with you about the Xmas period and agree about 12.30 kick offs.
Covid is just being used by some as an excuse for injuries I believe.Could be wrong but it’s even happened in our kids league.
		
Click to expand...

I know you're a stickler for rules Tony, your constant trolling isnt allowed or do you think you're above the rules?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 24, 2021)

I'm all for my team playing on if  Players rolling round the floor wanting the ball kicked out so they can get up, hobble for 4 steps, wince then get back in to position and play on like nothings happened. It'll soon stop.

Likewise when/if it goes against us. Crack on.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 24, 2021)

Junior said:



			Being a referee is an awful job.  They have to deal with players diving, time wasting, simulation,   (the most annoying for me are the ones going down holding their face so the ref has to stop the game), managers shouting / jesticulating to wind up the crowd,  and,  of course *the millions of bias fans who of course can do their job better than they can.*

How do you fix it?  Not easy but I think having a game timer and stopping the clock for injuries is a start.  Also, stronger punishments for yellow cards (2 or 3 and a match ban?) and more of them may see teams conduct themselves differently.

Hopefully the end product would be less tactical fouling, it would curtail some of the simulation, time-wasting  and finally, any player / manager surrounding the referee should also be a yellow.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst I largely agree with your post, having seen some of the recent mystifying decisions by the referee that VAR has supported, there may actually be a case that the biased fans could do a better job. 

The other alternative could be to involve more women in officiating, as Sian Massey-Ellis seems to be head & shoulders above her male counterparts.

(Turns off computer & retires with a bottle of malt as the internet melts down at the very thought. )


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 24, 2021)




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## Stuart_C (Dec 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 40114

Click to expand...

He's the finest example of some one who just because he  played the game at its highest level, it doesnt mean he knows the game.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 24, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Whilst I largely agree with your post, having seen some of the recent mystifying decisions by the referee that VAR has supported, there may actually be a case that the biased fans could do a better job. 

The other alternative could be to involve more women in officiating, as Sian Massey-Ellis seems to be head & shoulders above her male counterparts.

(Turns off computer & retires with a bottle of malt as the internet melts down at the very thought. )
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I've always felt she seems to get many more decisions correct compared to other lines people.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 24, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m not sure why you waste your time mate - better to ignore 👍
		
Click to expand...

It's like shooting fish in a barrel though, but am sure that fellow man u fans are embarrassed by him.

Like away, Phil.......


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## fundy (Dec 25, 2021)




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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

arsenal have 4 players in the squad who play/have played right back, they also have 4 covid absentees today. not sure the right backs meeting was a good idea lol


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## pauljames87 (Dec 26, 2021)

How did palace even try and con a covid delay? They are playing like a full team


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2021)

I see Tierney and Kavannagh have learnt to use the VAR tech just in time to give City a pen🙄


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			How did palace even try and con a covid delay? They are playing like a full team
		
Click to expand...

I doubt they're trying to con anyone but if they've got a relatively high of +ve's in their squad of 25  then they're entitled to ask the question.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Keeper just been booked in the championship game after half an hour for delaying the restart  get that ref in the prem!!!!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I doubt they're trying to con anyone but if they've got a relatively high of +ve's in their squad of 25  then they're entitled to ask the question.
		
Click to expand...

However look at their team and their subs. Isn't that their first team? Also if you notice it includes injuries and I think clubs are taking the mick with "injuries" as who declares them fit to play?

Half of them were prob "late fitness test" that they suddenly passed now the games on.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Keeper just been booked in the championship game after half an hour for delaying the restart  get that ref in the prem!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Riley will soon turn him into another useless waste of space.


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## backwoodsman (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Keeper just been booked in the championship game after half an hour for *delaying the restart  get that ref in the prem!!!!*

Click to expand...


Thats because Samba had lost the will to live after Yates put the soppiest own goal ever past him .... grrr.


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## DanFST (Dec 26, 2021)

Stop kicking the ball out when it isn't a head injury!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2021)

Some goals about today


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some goals about today
		
Click to expand...

Looks like all of the PL defenders decided to take an extended Xmas holiday. Either that or they overdid it on the sherry yesterday.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Looks like all of the PL defenders decided to take an extended Xmas holiday. Either that or they overdid it on the sherry yesterday.
		
Click to expand...


ours did ok, albeit against Norwich

5-0 wins always welcome at xmas


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 26, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I see Tierney and Kavannagh have learnt to use the VAR tech just in time to give City a pen🙄
		
Click to expand...

You’ve not even played & you’re feeling hard done by 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂🎻🎻🎻


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 26, 2021)

How good is Mason Mount tho


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## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2021)

chelsea going from runaway prem title winners to Third best team from London in a short space of time.

Serious question, what is going wrong at Chelsea.


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## Jensen (Dec 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			chelsea going from runaway prem title winners to Third best team from London in a short space of time.

Serious question, what is going wrong at Chelsea.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully the manager is doing a Mourinho 👍


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## Swingalot (Dec 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			How did palace even try and con a covid delay? They are playing like a full team
		
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What a ridiculous comment. Con ?


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## Swingalot (Dec 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			However look at their team and their subs. Isn't that their first team? Also if you notice it includes injuries and I think clubs are taking the mick with "injuries" as who declares them fit to play?

Half of them were prob "late fitness test" that they suddenly passed now the games on.
		
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Manager, captain and 3 regular starting squad players out. Still played, no dramas.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

assume the Chelsea fans will be on moaning about time wasting again tonight 

there again with Atkinson reffing theyll get away with what they want


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## Junior (Dec 26, 2021)

Surely that should be a red ? Lukaku was through ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 26, 2021)

Sign of decent side to chip away and win ugly at places like Villa when you aren't in full flow. Won't win the PL as still too many frailties but not sure it is a crisis


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			assume the Chelsea fans will be on moaning about time wasting again tonight 

there again with Atkinson reffing theyll get away with what they want
		
Click to expand...

I don't agree with it whoever does it, and I'd prefer we took the moral high ground and didn't do it, but if the referees are not going to deal with it then I can see why we do it.

At least Atkinson doesn't pretend to deal with it by tapping his watch & doing bugger all.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Junior said:



			Surely that should be a red ? Lukaku was through ?
		
Click to expand...


assume he was adjudged to be trying to play the ball


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			chelsea going from runaway prem title winners to Third best team from London in a short space of time.

Serious question, what is going wrong at Chelsea.
		
Click to expand...

good team talk Tashy


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			I don't agree with it whoever does it, and I'd prefer we took the moral high ground and didn't do it, but if the referees are not going to deal with it then I can see why they do it.
		
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its like Mount is literally unbookable to refs like Atkinson, 2 cynical fouls (one not even given as a foul) and 2 corners that took forever, didnt even cross Atkinsons mind that he should be booking him lol. Maybe he thinks hes England captain already


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## pauljames87 (Dec 26, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			What a ridiculous comment. Con ?
		
Click to expand...

Only because the request was rejected

3/4 players isn't enough 

Manager doesn't count

25 man squad, 13 players plus keeper is the agreement, what grounds would it be on? Was a pretty strong team out


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## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			good team talk Tashy 

Click to expand...

yeah but it don’t answer the question, have Chelsea just had a blip or is it a bit deeper


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			yeah but it don’t answer the question, have Chelsea just had a blip or is it a bit deeper
		
Click to expand...


played the last half a dozen games+ with nothing up top is a lot of it, if they get Lukaku fit and firing then theyre a very very different prospect


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## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			played the last half a dozen games+ with nothing up top is a lot of it, if they get Lukaku fit and firing then theyre a very very different prospect
		
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The reason I asked is I could not honestly see anyone keeping pace with them early season then all of a sudden the door opens for City and Liverpool.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The reason I asked is I could not honestly see anyone keeping pace with them early season then all of a sudden the door opens for City and Liverpool.
		
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dont have close to the depth of squad you do (no one does), especially going forward


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			played the last half a dozen games+ with nothing up top is a lot of it, if they get Lukaku fit and firing then theyre a very very different prospect
		
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No Lukaku for about 8 games, Kovacic missing most of the season, Kante injured, Havertz & Werner been injured and a some of the breaks that have gone against have been ridiculous.  But apparently it's something deep & the manager is doing a Mourinho... 

edit; add Chilwell to the list.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			dont have close to the depth of squad you do (no one does), especially going forward
		
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It was odd when you mentioned the loss of LuKanu. We have not had a recognised striker as such all season. Liam Delap would of had some game time but is injured. Hopefully a stinking season is back on for City, Liverpool and Chelsea. Ave a feeling Mr COVID is doing his best to make it a bumpy road.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It was odd when you mentioned the loss of LuKanu. We have not had a recognised striker as such all season. Liam Delap would of had some game time but is injured. Hopefully a stinking season is back on for City, Liverpool and Chelsea. Ave a feeling Mr COVID is doing his best to make it a bumpy road.
		
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lol Tashy, big big difference is you dont set up to have one, Chelseas plans are integral to having one, they spent £100m on getting one, you spent £100m on a 19th midfielder


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## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol Tashy, big big difference is you dont set up to have one, Chelseas plans are integral to having one, they spent £100m on getting one, you spent £100m on a 19th midfielder 

Click to expand...

😂😂👍
was reading a piece the other day which opened my eyes on the Manc evening news. With the sale of Torres to Barca and the selling of some of the academy players who are out on loan in europe. City could pay for Haaland for a net spend of nowt


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			No Lukaku for about 8 games, Kovacic missing most of the season, Kante injured, Havertz & Werner been injured and a some of the breaks that have gone against have been ridiculous.  But apparently it's something deep & the manager is doing a Mourinho... 

edit; add Chilwell to the list.
		
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Right now City appear to be avoiding the issues of all the other clubs - I guess spending £100mil on someone who doesn’t start each week helps but they don’t appear to have lost anyone through Covid or injuries and playing teams who are putting out restricted teams - it’s certainly falling into their hands at the moment 

Even if they did get players taken down by Covid I doubt it would have the same affect as others due to the unprecedented level of their squad. If City don’t win the title it would be a monumental failure


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			😂😂👍
was reading a piece the other day which opened my eyes on the Manc evening news. With the sale of Torres to Barca and the selling of some of the academy players who are out on loan in europe. City could pay for Haaland for a net spend of nowt
		
Click to expand...

yeah not sure its actually a net spend of "nowt", might be for one window for the tfr fee but lets not just write off the billion that went before  oh and lets also not ignore the backhanders father and agent want or the 25m+ a year wages. Assume were ignoring the £20m you paid to Torres and his wages too


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			yeah not sure its actually a net spend of "nowt", might be for one window for the tfr fee but lets not just write off the billion that went before  oh and lets also not ignore the backhanders father and agent want or the 25m+ a year wages. Assume were ignoring the £20m you paid to Torres and his wages too 

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂 a city fan talking about net spend of zero 😂😂😂

Think Guardiola has spent just under £900mil since he arrived and has a net spend of just over £600mil 

Maybe that’s why he was crying poverty in the summer and saying they won’t spend £100mil on players - as they then spent £100mil on Grealish 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

McAllister lol, that may be the first 6.0 ive given this season


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			lol Tashy, big big difference is you dont set up to have one, Chelseas plans are integral to having one, they spent £100m on getting one, you spent £100m on a 19th midfielder 

Click to expand...

Drogba, Costa, Giroud; yeah, it's not like Chelsea would set up round a big house of a striker, is it?


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Drogba, Costa, Giroud; yeah, it's not like Chelsea would set up round a big house of a striker, is it? 

Click to expand...

Timo Werner cough


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 26, 2021)

With all the goals today felt like a proper old school Boxing Day list from the 70's


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			McAllister lol, that may be the first 6.0 ive given this season
		
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Why oh why can VAR not address these, even retrospectively?    If it gives much worse I might give up before I get to my half price season ticket.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Why oh why can VAR not address these, even retrospectively?    If it gives much worse I might give up before I get to my half price season ticket. 

Click to expand...


just tweeted similar, if this isnt looked at retrospectively nothing will be, utter disgrace


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			Timo Werner cough 

Click to expand...

Was never going to be the out & out striker, bought to play out wide as he does for Germany.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			just tweeted similar, if this isnt looked at retrospectively nothing will be, utter disgrace
		
Click to expand...

On a yellow card offence though so they can’t look it at unless it’s part of the build up to a goal


----------



## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			With all the goals today felt like a proper old school Boxing Day list from the 70's
		
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its no 1963 though is it


----------



## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On a yellow card offence though so they can’t look it at unless it’s part of the build up to a goal
		
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charge him for bringing the game into disrepute and set a proper precedent


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			its no 1963 though is it 

Click to expand...

Wasn't born but I know what you mean


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			just tweeted similar, if this isnt looked at retrospectively nothing will be, utter disgrace
		
Click to expand...

To think in my lifetime it's gone from the 1970 FA Cup Final to this 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52416192

https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgia/a-forensic-analysis-of-chelsea-v-leeds-1970/

That was possibly too far the other way, but rather that than some of today's antics.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			charge him for bringing the game into disrepute and set a proper precedent 

Click to expand...

More chance of Tottenham winning the league.


----------



## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			More chance of Tottenham winning the league.
		
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think you'll find its a draw


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 26, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			To think in my lifetime it's gone from the 1970 FA Cup Final to this 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52416192

https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgia/a-forensic-analysis-of-chelsea-v-leeds-1970/

That was possibly too far the other way, but rather that than some of today's antics.
		
Click to expand...

Would have been abandoned after 15 minutes. Too few players left. A world away from the pampered drama queens of today. Every side had their enforcer and if you got kicked you simply got up and kicked him harder. Unless you broke a leg it was unlikely to be a sending off


----------



## fundy (Dec 26, 2021)

poor poor McAllister been shot again i see............


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2021)

fundy said:



			yeah not sure its actually a net spend of "nowt", might be for one window for the tfr fee but lets not just write off the billion that went before  oh and lets also not ignore the backhanders father and agent want or the 25m+ a year wages. Assume were ignoring the £20m you paid to Torres and his wages too 

Click to expand...

Yeah I was gonna type a good bit more but missis T has just pulled out a bought Christmas game, “ will you make history”. I would imagine someone has nipped down to the post office for a few brown envelopes.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wasn't born but I know what you mean
		
Click to expand...

1963 was a brilliant year, Baby Tash arrived 😁👍


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 26, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			😂😂👍
was reading a piece the other day which opened my eyes on the Manc evening news. With the sale of Torres to Barca and the selling of some of the academy players who are out on loan in europe. City could pay for Haaland for a net spend of nowt
		
Click to expand...

City fans talking of nett. spend, wow.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Only because the request was rejected

3/4 players isn't enough

Manager doesn't count

25 man squad, *13 players plus keeper is the agreement*, what grounds would it be on? Was a pretty strong team out
		
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Given that a team is entitled to make 3 substitutions, how did the brains in charge of the game come up with this?  Surely it should have been 13 players plus 2 keepers.  If you've only got one keeper you can guarantee the alehouse teams will do their best to put him out of the game so you get an outfield player in goal; if you name a second keeper on the bench to cover this, you limit yourself to 2 outfield subs for injuries or tactical change thus potentially disadvantaging yourself.


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## davidy233 (Dec 27, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Given that a team is entitled to make 3 substitutions, how did the brains in charge of the game come up with this?  Surely it should have been 13 players plus 2 keepers.  If you've only got one keeper you can guarantee the alehouse teams will do their best to put him out of the game so you get an outfield player in goal; if you name a second keeper on the bench to cover this, you limit yourself to 2 outfield subs for injuries or tactical change thus potentially disadvantaging yourself.
		
Click to expand...

I photographed a game yesterday with fours subs for one of the sides - a goalkeeper (as normal), another goalkeeper on the bench listed as an outfield substitute, a 17 year old kid who has never played a first team game and a 40 year old (retired six years ago) assistant manager who was registered on the bus on way to the game also listed as a sub - none of those listed as outfield subs were ever going to get onto the pitch unless there was a serious injury.


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			I photographed a game yesterday with fours subs for one of the sides - a goalkeeper (as normal), another goalkeeper on the bench listed as an outfield substitute, a 17 year old kid who has never played a first team game and a 40 year old (retired six years ago) assistant manager who was registered on the bus on way to the game also listed as a sub - none of those listed as outfield subs were ever going to get onto the pitch unless there was a serious injury.
		
Click to expand...

Dundee game?


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## davidy233 (Dec 27, 2021)

fundy said:



			Dundee game?
		
Click to expand...

Yep - not often I get a text half an hour before team arrive to say "Make sure you get pics of the third choice keeper and assistant manager when they arrive"


----------



## Slime (Dec 27, 2021)

Oh.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Oh.
		
Click to expand...

Where's the squirrel?

Oh look here he is.........


----------



## Slime (Dec 27, 2021)

Hey, that's my squirrel!


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Hey, that's my squirrel!
		
Click to expand...

I think the Arabs have bought him. 😳


----------



## Piece (Dec 27, 2021)

Fred and Rashford look like they are playing in the wrong age group


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Hey, that's my squirrel!
		
Click to expand...


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

If ever I stopped using the word rammel I would use “ Fred” instead. It means exactly the same thing.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2021)

Dammit, nearly got to see this little fella as well then.....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2021)

That doesn’t look good for Wilson - hope it’s not serious


----------



## Slime (Dec 27, 2021)

If that's his achilles, his season's done.
Fingers crossed for him.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 27, 2021)

Man utd look very poor. They can still win this as the Toon defence is bad but the bounce I expected from the new manager is not visible yet. I'm not sure that 'Happy'  up top is doing much for team spirit either 😄


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

It’s difficult where to start having watched that Game. Newcastle certainly don’t look like a team that’s in the bottom three. They look organised. And they are working hard for each other. Even with some bang average players in that team. Where as Utd look totally disorganised. Fred is stealing a living. Ronaldo looks like there was nowt under his Christmas tree. He don’t look happy.
Did they even have a shot on target in the first half against a team in the bottom three. Utd need a massive second half.
Maguire, sweet mother. 😖


----------



## Slime (Dec 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It’s difficult where to start having watched that Game. Newcastle certainly don’t look like a team that’s in the bottom three. They look organised. And they are working hard for each other. Even with some bang average players in that team. Where as Utd look totally disorganised. Fred is stealing a living. Ronaldo looks like there was nowt under his Christmas tree. He don’t look happy.
Did they even have a shot on target in the first half against a team in the bottom three. *Utd need a massive second half.*

Click to expand...

No, United need a defensive midfielder .................................... who can pass the ball!


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 27, 2021)

Another inept performance so far
If we get 1 we will go on to win
Let’s see if RR can actually get into these players and get a tune.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It’s difficult where to start having watched that Game. Newcastle certainly don’t look like a team that’s in the bottom three. They look organised. And they are working hard for each other. Even with some bang average players in that team. Where as Utd look totally disorganised. Fred is stealing a living. Ronaldo looks like there was nowt under his Christmas tree. He don’t look happy.
Did they even have a shot on target in the first half against a team in the bottom three. Utd need a massive second half.
Maguire, sweet mother. 😖
		
Click to expand...

Think that has a lot to do with Howe. He's used to working with sides not filled with superstars and is fantastic at getting a side to work as an organised unit. It is showing tonight and I think as it goes forward (and he's around post covid) Newcastle will get enough points to be well clear of the relegation mix


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## 4LEX (Dec 27, 2021)

Man Utd are shocking. Why bring in a manager with no experience at the elite level, who favours a narrow passing/pressing game when squad's quality is pace out wide through Shaw, Rashford, Sancho etc. Theres nothing in midfield bar Bruno who is remotely near to good, let alone top class. You then have two of the worst full backs in the league trying to provide width in Tellas and Dalot. Ronaldo, the sides second biggest asset is starved off service.

It's comical. I hope they turn it though around as my Christmas accumulator counts on it


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2021)

What’s the formation ?

4-1-1-4 ?


That’s huge miss for Newcastle


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Man Utd are shocking. Why bring in a manager with no experience at the elite level, who favours a narrow passing/pressing game when squad's quality is pace out wide through Shaw, Rashford, Sancho etc. Theres nothing in midfield bar Bruno who is remotely near to good, let alone top class. You then have two of the worst full backs in the league trying to provide width in Tellas and Dalot. Ronaldo, the sides second biggest asset is starved off service.

It's comical. I hope they turn it though around as my Christmas accumulator counts on it 

Click to expand...

On the plus side they can't be that bad in the second half


----------



## Dando (Dec 27, 2021)

Why on earth aren’t keepers taught to catch the bloody ball


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 27, 2021)

No red 😳. Reckless and out of control. Very lucky.


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## Dando (Dec 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No red 😳. Reckless and out of control. Very lucky.
		
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They can’t send Christine off


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No red 😳. Reckless and out of control. Very lucky.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475578122640707590
Very strange

But good to see he has booked Fernandes for his constant crying


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 27, 2021)

If that is a foul on de Gea, how was it not a penalty on Fraser?


----------



## Junior (Dec 27, 2021)

Utd are awful.  Trying to play at pace but they're simply not very good.   If we were playing Liverpool or City we'd be 4 down.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

Will this game finish 11 v 11


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2021)

And that’s a poor one from Maguire - will be amazed if this stays 1-0 and also if it stays 11 v 11


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2021)

Burnley would be proud of Newcastle's time wasting.
It's funny that a lot who were complaining about it have been strangely silent this evening.


----------



## Piece (Dec 27, 2021)

A squirrel is on its way….


----------



## Slime (Dec 27, 2021)

Aw, he's come back home!


----------



## Dando (Dec 27, 2021)

Clinical finish off the shin pad


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## Dando (Dec 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No red 😳. Reckless and out of control. Very lucky.
		
Click to expand...

If it was the other way round he’d have just rolled past my house in London


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2021)

Oooh, the haters are in here tonight.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Burnley would be proud of Newcastle's time wasting.
*It's funny that a lot who were complaining about it have been strangely silent this evening.*

Click to expand...

My position hasn't changed; it is a blight on the game that needs addressing, but if I mention timekeepers again Fragger will probably do me for trolling.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			My position hasn't changed; it is a blight on the game that needs addressing, but if I mention timekeepers again Fragger will probably do me for trolling.
		
Click to expand...

Not on his birthday surely


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 27, 2021)

Dando said:



			Clinical finish off the shin pad
		
Click to expand...

Even off the shin pad he is still a class act. 

Lascelles was woeful for it though, completely took his eye off him. The Toon defence is just very poor unfortunately. 1 was never going to be enough.


----------



## Dando (Dec 27, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			My position hasn't changed; it is a blight on the game that needs addressing, but if I mention timekeepers again Fragger will probably do me for trolling.
		
Click to expand...

He’ll turn up in his thong


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Even off the shin pad he is still a class act.
		
Click to expand...

Lots of rumours of him moving on in January due to lack of game time. Can't imagine why Utd would even consider that. They've got a guy that knows how to stick the ball in the back of the net regularly and they don't seem to be using him enough to keep him happy.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2021)

Dando said:



			He’ll turn up in his thong
		
Click to expand...

And hat


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2021)

Where have this NUFC been all season?
They owe their fans a huge apology.


----------



## Slime (Dec 27, 2021)

Great save by De Gea, I can almost taste the commentators' tears.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2021)

Utd hanging on here.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Where have this NUFC been all season?
They owe their fans a huge apology.
		
Click to expand...

Stuck playing Bruce tactics



Slime said:



			Great save by De Gea, I can almost taste the commentators' tears. 

Click to expand...

Martin Tyler the Man Utd fan 😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Where have this NUFC been all season?
They owe their fans a huge apology.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps a certain Mr Bruce had something to do with it 🤷‍♂️.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Utd hanging on here.
		
Click to expand...

Have been most of the game


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 27, 2021)

I'd have to listen back... But about 10 mins into 2nd half Martin Tyler joked about the groan from the crowd when 6 minutes extra time would be announced.

It's almost like he knew.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

VARane 😉😁


----------



## Piece (Dec 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Where have this NUFC been all season?
They owe their fans a huge apology.
		
Click to expand...

More to do with Man U being awful


----------



## Dando (Dec 27, 2021)

Martin Tyler - “ it gets to 90 minutes quicker in the premier league than any other league” 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡


----------



## Slime (Dec 27, 2021)

Pathetic is the word.
They looked so ring rusty, maybe the 16 day break went against them somewhat?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Lots of rumours of him moving on in January due to lack of game time. Can't imagine why Utd would even consider that. They've got a guy that knows how to stick the ball in the back of the net regularly and they don't seem to be using him enough to keep him happy.
		
Click to expand...

I think I would add to that he is a leader from what I saw, and there’s not to many in that team.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think I would add to that he is a leader from what I saw, and there’s not to many in that team.
		
Click to expand...

I think he would rather enjoy playing in sky blue. How many would he score for you?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

Slime said:



*Pathetic* is the word.
They looked so ring rusty, maybe the 16 day break went against them somewhat?
		
Click to expand...

I prefer rammel or Fred 😳


----------



## Dando (Dec 27, 2021)

They’re going to interview Klopp after the break


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2021)

Great game for the neutral - Newcastle losing their best two players and still nearly getting the win

Utd - no idea what their style is ? The formation? Ronaldo spent the whole 90 mins sulking like a 4 year old and prob should have seen red , Fernandes finally getting a card for his constant whinging as well, Rashford is far too good for that team and in the end some class movement from Cavini rescued a point along with De Gea

Newcastle - they might as well just go for it but need to play like that in a lot more games, Joelinton looked like a footballer


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2021)

Slime said:



			Pathetic is the word.
They looked so ring rusty, maybe the 16 day break went against them somewhat?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe you need a new squirrel. What about this one?............


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think he would rather enjoy playing in sky blue. How many would he score for you?
		
Click to expand...

dear lord could you imagine Citys midfield feeding him. That said when he gave the Utd player a bollockin for letting the ball go out. I thought yup he’s the one you want at the side of you in the trenches. But how fit is he for an old un 😳
what I don’t understand is.
Sancho, Cavani, Ronaldo, and Varame are in that squad.   Chuck in Bruno, Shaw, de gea etc etc etc. there’s a good starting 11 there. So how have they not yet gelled. But Fred. He is shocking.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 27, 2021)

Fantastic performance by The Toon, and very unlucky not to come away with all 3.
Joelinton was excellent tonight, Eddie Howe has transformed him.
Keep that performance up and The Toon will stay up.
Hopefully Wilson and Saint-Max won’t be on the treatment table.

Oh, and how much confidence has Harry Maguire lost…


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Great game for the neutral - Newcastle losing their best two players and still nearly getting the win

Utd - no idea what their style is ? The formation? Ronaldo spent the whole 90 mins sulking like a 4 year old and prob should have seen red , Fernandes finally getting a card for his constant whinging as well, Rashford is far too good for that team and in the end some class movement from Cavini rescued a point along with De Gea

Newcastle - they might as well just go for it but need to play like that in a lot more games, Joelinton looked like a footballer
		
Click to expand...

Rashford? He has been woeful for over a year.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

Dando said:



			They’re going to interview Klopp after the break
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂


----------



## IanM (Dec 27, 2021)

Wonder if the Mags will feel happy with a point or feel annoyed?


----------



## Jensen (Dec 27, 2021)

IanM said:



			Wonder if the Mags will feel happy with a point or feel annoyed?
		
Click to expand...

Extremely disappointed


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Fantastic performance by The Toon, and very unlucky not to come away with all 3.
Joelinton was excellent tonight, Eddie Howe has transformed him.
Keep that performance up and The Toon will stay up.
Hopefully Wilson and Saint-Max won’t be on the treatment table.

Oh, and how much confidence has Harry Maguire lost…
		
Click to expand...

It’s not a confidence issue with Maguire - it’s an ability one , he can head a ball , but his nowhere near a top quality CB , positioning and ability to read the game is ball along with his pace - superb when the ball is thrown in the air but a donkey on the ground -it’s still laughable that he cost over £80mil.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Lots of rumours of him moving on in January due to lack of game time. Can't imagine why Utd would even consider that. They've got a guy that knows how to stick the ball in the back of the net regularly and they don't seem to be using him enough to keep him happy.
		
Click to expand...

I'd take him in an instant at Newcastle....man who knows where the goal is. With the chances we had and DeGea's saves we should have won that...just lacking a striker with ice in his veins. Let's hope the injuries to CW and ASM aren't too bad.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 27, 2021)

IanM said:



			Wonder if the Mags will feel happy with a point or feel annoyed?
		
Click to expand...

Based on my son, gutted. 

Anyone watching the post match interview with Joelinton 😳. I know what the interviewer meant but a bit brutal.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 27, 2021)

Nice words from Longstaff post match interview, sticking up for Joelinton.
Not once, but twice 👍


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2021)

Well played Newcastle. But the less said about United’s performance, Maguire in particular, the better.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Nice words from Longstaff post match interview, sticking up for Joelinton.
Not once, but twice 👍
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475592771193159680
Apparently the reporter said “didn’t realise you were that good”

And how come Neville wasn’t this critical of Utd when OGS was in charge 🤔


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Well played Newcastle. But the less said about United’s performance, Maguire in particular, the better.
		
Click to expand...

The bottom line for both teams is that one is playing to stay in the prem. The other is playing to get into the top 4. On that performance Newcastle could well stay up. Utds second half performance was a lot better. But they look so disjointed. Am struggling to see them getting 4th.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 27, 2021)

I had assumed United's Top 4 place was certain, even after the poor start. After seeing the performances under the new manager I'm not so sure.

It looks like the wrong fit, wrong formation and players having a sulk. Conte meanwhile has walked into Spurs and totally changed things around. Not sacking Ole early enough and missing out on Conte or refusing to pay Poch's contract could backfire badly. 

I don't get the Newcastle hype either, they were lively but it was their cup final and they will certainly go down unless they spend a fortune in January. Any Top 10 side and they'd been well beaten tonight.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

4LEX said:



			I had assumed United's Top 4 place was certain, even after the poor start. After seeing the performances under the new manager I'm not so sure.

It looks like the wrong fit, wrong formation and players having a sulk. Conte meanwhile has walked into Spurs and totally changed things around. Not sacking Ole early enough and missing out on Conte or refusing to pay Poch's contract could backfire badly.

I don't get the Newcastle hype either, they were lively but it was their cup final and they will certainly go down unless they spend a fortune in January. Any Top 10 side and they'd been well beaten tonight.
		
Click to expand...

The first thing Newcastle need to do to be able to move on is to be organised.They do under Howe. They need there star players to stay fit. Can they finish above Burnley, Leeds etc. Am sure they can. Can Utd finish above Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham hmm I don’t think so.


----------



## fundy (Dec 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Maybe you need a new squirrel. What about this one?............


View attachment 40144

Click to expand...


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			The first thing Newcastle need to do to be able to move on is to be organised.They do under Howe. They need there star players to stay fit. Can they finish above Burnley, Leeds etc. Am sure they can. Can Utd finish above Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham hmm I don’t think so.
		
Click to expand...

Newcastle won't finish above Leeds. Leeds have been without key players all season and play some excellent football. Burnley will grind out results, Newcastle still going down and Howe has a bad record in the transfer market and relegation battles. Another poor appointment.


----------



## fundy (Dec 27, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			My position hasn't changed; it is a blight on the game that needs addressing, but if I mention timekeepers again Fragger will probably do me for trolling.
		
Click to expand...


youll be fine, others been getting away with it for years..........


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



*dear lord could you imagine Citys midfield feeding him. *That said when he gave the Utd player a bollockin for letting the ball go out. I thought yup he’s the one you want at the side of you in the trenches. But how fit is he for an old un 😳
		
Click to expand...

If Cavani moved to City in January he'd still be in with a chance of winning the golden boot this season with the amount of chances City would give him each game.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			If Cavani moved to City in January he'd still be in with a chance of winning the golden boot this season with the amount of chances City would give him each game.
		
Click to expand...

As sure as eggs is eggs, City are on the hunt for a centre forward. Haaland keeps being mentioned.watch this space.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2021)

Man Utd really are dog 💩 
Who ever is giving the go ahead for their signings needs sacking.
The Ronaldo signing sums it up.
Pogba,Rashford,Maguire aren’t good enough 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Junior (Dec 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Great game for the neutral - Newcastle losing their best two players and still nearly getting the win

Utd - no idea what their style is ? The formation? Ronaldo spent the whole 90 mins sulking like a 4 year old and prob should have seen red , Fernandes finally getting a card for his constant whinging as well, *Rashford is far too good for that team* and in the end some class movement from Cavini rescued a point along with De Gea

Newcastle - they might as well just go for it but need to play like that in a lot more games, Joelinton looked like a footballer
		
Click to expand...

Were we watching the same game ?  Utd were terrible but he was one of the worst players on the pitch.  Constantly running down blind alleys and he must have given the ball away by simply passing it to the opposition at least 5 times.  He made one good pass in the 2nd half.

When Sancho came on on the right, he and Cavani gave us the glimmer of hope , and in the end got us the draw.

Agree with what you say re Maguire and Varane showed lack of match time.   I get what RR trying to get UTD to do but the players look like they are confused.  Like I said,  a City, Liverpool team would have pasted us last night.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 28, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Newcastle won't finish above Leeds. Leeds have been without key players all season and play some excellent football. Burnley will grind out results, Newcastle still going down and Howe has a bad record in the transfer market* and relegation battles*. Another poor appointment.
		
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Eh? I'm really not sure how you deduce his record in relegation battles is bad. He has been relegated once. He has achieved promotion three times (which may be very relevant come next season....I'm not by any means saying Newcastle are staying up). He saved Bournemouth from dropping out of the league, overcoming a huge points deficit in the process, and then got them promoted from Div 2 to Div1 despite the club being under a transfer embargo. His single relegation came at Bournemouth, a club with relatively low resources who lived within their financial means and were never big players in the transfer market and punched above their weight for 3 seasons.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Dixon hit nail on the head .. some teams have played loads of games others are getting breaks it's making it very odd for results 

We are knackered now however in few weeks when everyone playing their other games going to be them who's knackered?

However that said WHAT a goal from Dennis. Really good finish


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Dixon hit nail on the head .. some teams have played loads of games others are getting breaks it's making it very odd for results

We are knackered now however in few weeks when everyone playing their other games going to be them who's knackered?

However that said WHAT a goal from Dennis. Really good finish
		
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Tbf your poor run probably has more to do with Europe than covid.

watford are your first opponents who’ve had a break aren’t they?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

This is something I've been saying all season..rice is out today. He's class we know he is but to keep him at club he's been given a more attacking role this season and it's hampering soucek 

He's suspended today and who scores? From open okay


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2021)

Looks like it’s quite slippy at St Mary’s- Spurs players are struggling to stay on their feet , falling over without being touched as well


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf your poor run probably has more to do with Europe than covid.

watford are your first opponents who’ve had a break aren’t they?
		
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The 3rd in a row ..

Spurs had a long break

Southampton had 10 days was it?

Watford 18 days?


Can't overly Blame europa when we played the kids in that game as we had won the group


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The 3rd in a row ..

Spurs had a long break

Southampton had 10 days was it?

Watford 18 days?


Can't overly Blame europa when we played the kids in that game as we had won the group
		
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West Ham played Spurs 3 days after they had played Liverpool

Also didn’t your team have a game postponed as well so had 7 days off ?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			West Ham played Spurs 3 days after they had played Liverpool

Also didn’t your team have a game postponed as well so had 7 days off ?
		
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And when did spurs play before Liverpool they had a 10 day gap wasn't it?

We had one game called off enabling a 7 day gap

I'm not saying it's wrong but it's understandable that our players are knackered. We are down to the back up defence minus one

Not to mention Norwich game coufal should have been "banned" for yet it rolled over to the spurs game because of the postponed game .. which is unfair on Norwich as now they have a better defender to play against


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The 3rd in a row ..

Spurs had a long break

Southampton had 10 days was it?

Watford 18 days?


Can't overly Blame europa when we played the kids in that game as we had won the group
		
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Didn't realise it was sours you've played. We've played 19 like yourself. 

Realistically though the covid situation is going to benefit the bigger clubs significantly imo. 


Blatant pen no doubt, but wouldnt Mind Emerson hurting himself at some point. Not seek the imaginary cards as often as this match....


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			Didn't realise it was sours you've played. We've played 19 like yourself.

Realistically though the covid situation is going to benefit the bigger clubs significantly imo.


Blatant pen no doubt, but wouldnt Mind Emerson hurting himself at some point. Not seek the imaginary cards as often as this match....
		
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Those with bigger squads will benefit for sure , it's certainly making for some interesting scoring games 

I'm surprised one thing they didn't do was open the window early to allow clubs to make some signing now to help 

However the Acon is gonna cost people.. plus prob cause a massive spike


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			No Lukaku for about 8 games, Kovacic missing most of the season, Kante injured, Havertz & Werner been injured and a some of the breaks that have gone against have been ridiculous.  But apparently it's something deep & the manager is doing a Mourinho... 

edit; *add Chilwell to the list.*

Click to expand...

For the rest of the season... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59811783


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## GB72 (Dec 28, 2021)

Been reading that to play rugby in France from 15th January you must he fully vaccinated. Going to impact massively on our European competition. Anyone heard if there are similar plans for football


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			For the rest of the season... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59811783

Click to expand...

That's gutting for him..Shaw is massively out of form and he was a shoe in for the world cup


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Those with bigger squads will benefit for sure , it's certainly making for some interesting scoring games

I'm surprised one thing they didn't do was open the window early to allow clubs to make some signing now to help

However the Acon is gonna cost people.. plus prob cause a massive spike
		
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2 PL games for Afcon now isn't it? Not as bad as it used to be due to further pandering to the bug clubs.....

Not sure it really matters where its held re a spike. If the league truly cared they'd impose properly strict rules almost in the form if their own little lockdown.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			2 PL games for Afcon now isn't it? Not as bad as it used to be due to further pandering to the bug clubs.....

Not sure it really matters where its held re a spike. If the league truly cared they'd impose properly strict rules almost in the form if their own little lockdown.
		
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Oh fully agree. Its all about money 

The Acon surely should be cancelled due to international travel and covid right now but money talks 

Prob why the restrictions to Africa changed just before Xmas


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			2 PL games for Afcon now isn't it? Not as bad as it used to be due to further pandering to the bug clubs.....

Not sure it really matters where its held re a spike. If the league truly cared they'd impose properly strict rules almost in the form if their own little lockdown.
		
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It will depend on when the rescheduled games happen - at the moment it’s just two Prem games but wouldn’t surprise me to see them put the rearranged games in during that period


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

When did Southampton become the new Stoke? Long clattering our players every two minutes, somehow avoiding a card. Long throws seemingly were the main weapon of attack. Horrible team. Salisu was clumsy as hell, saw his red card coming a mile off, looks an awful clumsy player. Unfortunately we'll probably see the old 'harder to play against ten' adage coming into play now. We've always struggled to break down compact teams.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			When did Southampton become the new Stoke? Long clattering our players every two minutes, somehow avoiding a card. Long throws seemingly were the main weapon of attack. Horrible team. Salisu was clumsy as hell, saw his red card coming a mile off, looks an awful clumsy player. Unfortunately we'll probably see the old 'harder to play against ten' adage coming into play now. We've always struggled to break down compact teams.
		
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When did Spurs players start to throw themselves to the floor - Emerson going down as if shot without being touched , Ali doing the same and and Salisu first yellow shouldn’t haven’t been given due to a handball


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did Spurs players start to throw themselves to the floor - Emerson going down as if shot without being touched , Ali doing the same and and Salisu first yellow shouldn’t haven’t been given due to a handball
		
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What game are you watching? Their entire gameplan has been to clatter us with late challenges and in the back at every opportunity. Salisu should have had another yellow before that for studs on Dele.

I'll give you one from Emerson early on when I couldn't see how he'd hurt his knee, that was a strange one.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

have to admit I used to be against 5 subs thinking it benefits the big teams more but with all these games being crammed in it would make sense to bring back to help manage fitness

watford already had to make 2 of their 3 subs today with injury


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

Lino clearly did take Kanes England captain allowance into consideration when checking the lines there


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

Put VAR in the bin, it's junk. Kane's clearly level but level doesn't exist anymore. Top class finish.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

I have to admit I still dont understand how VAR works fully

we just got a pen (rightly) they reviewed the pen and was a pen pretty quick but then they check was antonio onside when he got the ball.. did he cross it from in the pitch (not off for a goal kick) etc etc

however the ref had given a corner.. so if they had deemed it not a pen (ie dont even review your decision)  it would have been a corner regardless?


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## srixon 1 (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Put VAR in the bin, it's junk. Kane's clearly level but level doesn't exist anymore. Top class finish.
		
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Same old argument. How can you be offside with a part of your body that is not allowed to touch the ball?


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

How on earth was that a foul?? Forster has had an absolute howler and the ref has bailed him out!!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			How on earth was that a foul?? Forster has had an absolute howler and the ref has bailed him out!!
		
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was it kasper few weeks ago? similar situation , they came out with something like if a keeper has any part of a hand on the ball and is knocked its a foul as its "under control" something like that

i mean its consistent.. but complete rubbish thats not a foul


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			was it kasper few weeks ago? similar situation , they came out with something like if a keeper has any part of a hand on the ball and is knocked its a foul as its "under control" something like that

i mean its consistent.. but complete rubbish thats not a foul
		
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It was a joke, Doherty jumps for a header, Forster fumbles it under the slightest contact and backheels it in his own net. Ref spared his blushes big time.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			It was a joke, Doherty jumps for a header, Forster fumbles it under the slightest contact and backheels it in his own net. Ref spared his blushes big time.
		
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yeah it looked a goal.. same as kanes


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

refs having a mare

watford defender pushes antonio into another watford player and gives the foul against him

not 2 mins after the same defender holds him so he cant run

should be in the book by now 

(posted in the correct thread now lol muppet)


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			When did Southampton become the new Stoke? Long clattering our players every two minutes, somehow avoiding a card. Long throws seemingly were the main weapon of attack. Horrible team. Salisu was clumsy as hell, saw his red card coming a mile off, looks an awful clumsy player. Unfortunately we'll probably see the old 'harder to play against ten' adage coming into play now. We've always struggled to break down compact teams.
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣

Truly aspiring to be a big club with comments like that.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

round of applause for Bowen. 3 assists today (winning pen counts in fantasy football , and a disallowed goal) but that last one... rather than a selfish shot .. sees his team mate (vlasic who is struggling to break into the team..... not hit the ground running since he arrived) open for a tap in... get in


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

Not good enough. After Southampton's pub league tactics cost them a man we should have kicked on an battered them in the second half. We were unlucky on a few occasions but they're a poor side really and we've not done nearly enough. Not great to watch, and two points lost.


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			. Unfortunately we'll probably see the old 'harder to play against ten' adage coming into play now. We've always struggled to break down compact teams.
		
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I called it anyway. 😣


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## adam6177 (Dec 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did Spurs players start to throw themselves to the floor - Emerson going down as if shot without being touched , Ali doing the same and and Salisu first yellow shouldn’t haven’t been given due to a handball
		
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I can answer that.... When pochetino took over is the answer. The change was remarkable.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Not good enough. After Southampton's pub league tactics cost them a man we should have kicked on an battered them in the second half. We were unlucky on a few occasions but they're a poor side really and we've not done nearly enough. Not great to watch, and two points lost.
		
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Southampton are normally regarded as a team that like to play good football.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			When did Southampton become the new Stoke? Long clattering our players every two minutes, somehow avoiding a card. Long throws seemingly were the main weapon of attack. Horrible team. Salisu was clumsy as hell, saw his red card coming a mile off, looks an awful clumsy player. Unfortunately we'll probably see the old 'harder to play against ten' adage coming into play now. We've always struggled to break down compact teams.
		
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What Southampton should have done is let Spurs have the ball and give them the freedom of the park.
Think your way off to be honest.
Spurs players always throw themselves to the floor.
11vs 11 I think it would have been a better game.
You actually did break them down twice only to be robbed by poor reffing and poor Var decisions.


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Southampton are normally regarded as a team that like to play good football.
		
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I don't watch their other games so I have no idea. They played like another Stoke/Burnley today though.


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			What Southampton should have done is let Spurs have the ball and give them the freedom of the park.
Think your way off to be honest.
Spurs players always throw themselves to the floor.
11vs 11 I think it would have been a better game.
You actually did break them down twice only to be robbed by poor reffing and poor Var decisions.
		
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There's a difference between not letting someone play and sticking in endless late challenges and clattering players. Yes, red cards often ruin games as it becomes attack against defence. And yeah again, we were robbed of a couple of goals but I still felt we should have done a lot more. So many times our players' touch simply wasn't good enough in the last third.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't watch their other games so I have no idea. They played like another Stoke/Burnley today though.
		
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It does sound like you’re just bitter because you didn’t win.


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## davidy233 (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			round of applause for Bowen. 3 assists today (winning pen counts in fantasy football , and a disallowed goal) but that last one... rather than a selfish shot .. sees his team mate (vlasic who is struggling to break into the team..... not hit the ground running since he arrived) open for a tap in... get in
		
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When I photographed West Ham in pre season Bowen was by a mile their best player, I'll admit I'd never heard of him and it was only when I looked him up that I realised he'd cost over £20 million. I've kind of kept an eye on how he's been doing since - thought of watching second half today when I realised games were all on Amazon but the Hammers were already 3-1 up so watched Southampton v Spurs instead - fine point for the Saints with ten men, Spurs had loads of pressure but I don't think big Forster had a save that really stretched him to make.


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			It does sound like you’re just bitter because you didn’t win.
		
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I've just stated we didn't do enough today, and our players' touch was particularly poor. I was just surprised at the way they chose to play, as like you I thought they were supposed to be a half decent footballing side. That isn't the reason we didn't win.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't watch their other games so I have no idea. They played like another Stoke/Burnley today though.
		
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whilst spursy were just like spursy  🤣🤣🤣


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## davidy233 (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			There's a difference between not letting someone play and sticking in endless late challenges and clattering players. Yes, red cards often ruin games as it becomes attack against defence. And yeah again, we were robbed of a couple of goals but I still felt we should have done a lot more. So many times our players' touch simply wasn't good enough in the last third.
		
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I watched second half and I've no bias either way - what you saw wasn't at all what it looked like to me


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			whilst spursy were just like spursy  🤣🤣🤣
		
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Not going to disagree, it was trademark from us sadly.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			When I photographed West Ham in pre season Bowen was by a mile their best player, I'll admit I'd never heard of him and it was only when I looked him up that I realised he'd cost over £20 million. I've kind of kept an eye on how he's been doing since - thought of watching second half today when I realised games were all on Amazon but the Hammers were already 3-1 up so watched Southampton v Spurs instead - fine point for the Saints with ten men, Spurs had loads of pressure but I don't think big Forster had a save that really stretched him to make.
		
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he should imo be called up for england soon

he was a cracking signing.. moyes first or second i believe.. along with soucek 

Rice is our best player but Bowen is our best IMO


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			I watched second half and I've no bias either way - what you saw wasn't at all what it looked like to me
		
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You only watched the second half? I was talking specifically about the first half when I said that so you can't really comment.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I've just stated we didn't do enough today, and our players' touch was particularly poor. I was just surprised at the way they chose to play, as like you I thought they were supposed to be a half decent footballing side. That isn't the reason we didn't win.
		
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Hang on, two minutes ago you had no idea how they normally play? 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Hang on, two minutes ago you had no idea how they normally play? 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
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I don't watch the games I said. But from what others say you don't normally hear about them being a pub team do you?


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't watch the games I said. But from what others say you don't normally hear about them being a pub team do you?
		
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For 30 minutes we outplayed you. 

Yes they were hard tackles, but they weren't malicious in anyway. Get up and get on with it. 

If it wasn't for our aggressive play, you'd not have got your solitary goal....


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

Papas1982 said:



			For 30 minutes we outplayed you.

Yes they were hard tackles, but they weren't malicious in anyway. Get up and get on with it.

If it wasn't for our aggressive play, you'd not have got your solitary goal....
		
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Yes we were poor but you tried to kick us off the park as well. Always late, always through the back or on the ankles. Very ugly to watch that's all.

We had two more perfectly good goals ruled out so we'll call it even.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I don't watch the games I said. But from what others say you don't normally hear about them being a pub team do you?
		
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That’s because they’re not. If anything the criticism they get is because they often try to play good football too often.


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			That’s because they’re not. If anything the criticism they get is because they often try to play good football too often.
		
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Ok. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Captainron (Dec 28, 2021)

Spurs are just a bang average team. They have their moments but they are consistently falling short of doing anything worthwhile.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Yes we were poor but you tried to kick us off the park as well. Always late, always through the back or on the ankles. Very ugly to watch that's all.

We had two more perfectly good goals ruled out so we'll call it even.
		
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Careful, you’re beginning to sound like the GM Liverpool supporters group 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2021)

One for @Piece and any other Watford fans. Will Claudio make it until February? The results are bad, are the performances enough to save him? The owners aren't known for their patience, does he have long?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for @Piece and any other Watford fans. Will Claudio make it until February? The results are bad, are the performances enough to save him? The owners aren't known for their patience, does he have long?
		
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When they scored and then were defending well (until we scored) I wondered how are watford down the bottom of the league.. great striker in dennis and defending well... soon as we scored they went to pot and never looked in the game after that


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2021)

Manchester Utd have scored 27 goals in the league this season.
Manchester City have scored 23 goals in the league this month 😳


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## SaintHacker (Dec 28, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Spurs are just a bang average team. They have their moments but they are consistently falling short of doing anything worthwhile.
		
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Any team that cant beat a ten man Southampton team has got problems 🤣🤣


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Read a stat that west ham are in top 6 goals scored and bottom 6 goals conceded

I know we lost 3/4 first choice back like but we do need to replace from back as well as a striker


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## Piece (Dec 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for @Piece and any other Watford fans. Will Claudio make it until February? The results are bad, are the performances enough to save him? The owners aren't known for their patience, does he have long?
		
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Any knowledgeable Watford fan will tell you the owners must invest in quality defenders. We’ve been crying out for years for this. Our lot just hoof the ball so there’s no opportunity for the midfield to build play. But on occasions we play very well; Everton, Villa and Man U games.

We are seeing Fulham Ranieri not the Leicester one. I want to see more emphasis on playing through the midfield. West Ham aren‘t the only ones to give us a lesson this season. Today, Noble was made to look like prime Iniesta and Wham were too good for us. He will last but performances must improve and I’m not sure CR70 has made any difference versus Xisco.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Piece said:



			Any knowledgeable Watford fan will tell you the owners must invest in quality defenders. We’ve been crying out for years for this. Our lot just hoof the ball so there’s no opportunity for the midfield to build play. But on occasions we play very well; Everton, Villa and Man U games.

We are seeing Fulham Ranieri not the Leicester one. I want to see more emphasis on playing through the midfield. West Ham aren‘t the only ones to give us a lesson this season. Today, Noble was made to look like prime Iniesta and Wham were too good for us. He will last but performances must improve and I’m not sure CR70 has made any difference versus Xisco.
		
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If noble can keep up with the pace of the game you know the teams in trouble ...

He played well but a lot of that was lack of pressing him


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2021)

Every time I watch Leicester vs Liverpool I worry for Leicester 
They always try and play out from the back,if they do that tonight they will get hammered.


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## Piece (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If noble can keep up with the pace of the game you know the teams in trouble ...

He played well but a lot of that was lack of pressing him
		
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Exactly. I kept saying there’s no pressure from us and Noble is able to ”Pirlo” the game. When he’s controlling the game the other, more talented ones, have a field day. Bowen was excellent.


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## SaintHacker (Dec 28, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Put VAR in the bin, it's junk. Kane's clearly level but level doesn't exist anymore. Top class finish.
		
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Hes clearly offside.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

lol Salah, too easy


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

oops


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2021)

Seems cheats don’t prosper 
Biggest diver ever,weak as pee


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## TopOfTheFlop (Dec 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Seems cheats don’t prosper
Biggest diver ever,weak as pee
		
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Sit down


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## Captainron (Dec 28, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Hes clearly offside.
		
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To be fair. He did have to set off 12 seconds earlier than everyone to get those few inches in front. Donkey


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## Captainron (Dec 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Seems cheats don’t prosper
Biggest diver ever,weak as pee
		
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Went down but that is a pen for sure. The three attempts to get the ball in the net were not up to his usual standard though


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## Dando (Dec 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Seems cheats don’t prosper 
Biggest diver ever,weak as pee
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Didn’t man u have Ashley young on their books?


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## weewullie (Dec 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Seems cheats don’t prosper
Biggest diver ever,weak as pee
		
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I'm guessing you don't like Salah?


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Piece said:



			Exactly. I kept saying there’s no pressure from us and Noble is able to ”Pirlo” the game. When he’s controlling the game the other, more talented ones, have a field day. Bowen was excellent.
		
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Bowen needs to play for England , he is outstanding

His work rate is second only to rice and he really is a constant outlet


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

*Paddy Power* @paddypower
2h


Contenders for Norwich's December Goal of the Month: 1. Ben Gibson header in training 2. Goal Todd Cantwell scored on Fifa in a 3-1 defeat 3. Pukki goal v Newcastle on 30th November as it was nearly December


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## pendodave (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Bowen needs to play for England , he is outstanding

His work rate is second only to rice and he really is a constant outlet
		
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Agreed. He's been consistently good all season. He never hides, he's full of energy and he constantly attacks the oppo and makes life uncomfortable for them.
I wonder if there are any other players like him we can pilfer from the championship?


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2021)

Piss poor pen but everyone misses now and again.
Very mediocre considering the possession we have had.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2021)

Dando said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Didn’t man u have Ashley young on their books?
		
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Yes and he was the same.
A feather would knock these players over.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Bowen needs to play for England , he is outstanding

His work rate is second only to rice and he really is a constant outlet
		
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Don’t keep bigging him up to much he might want to leave.
I like him he’s a great player.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

pendodave said:



			Agreed. He's been consistently good all season. He never hides, he's full of energy and he constantly attacks the oppo and makes life uncomfortable for them.
I wonder if their are any other players like him we can pilfer from the championship?
		
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think hes one of several good players in those positions this year, Gallagher and Smith Rowe both had excellent seasons so far too and pressing for selection, fully expect Southgate to pick those in possession still


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2021)

weewullie said:



			I'm guessing you don't like Salah?
		
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Very good player but unfortunately a very good diver too.
Would respect his game a lot more if he actually tried to stay on his feet.
The softest touch and his legs collapse.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Bowen needs to play for England , he is outstanding

His work rate is second only to rice and he really is a constant outlet
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately he’s in a queue.
I like him a lot but we have too many similar.


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Hes clearly offside.
		
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 What are you on about? You can see there he's level. Your arm can't be offside. His body is level with the last defender. These used to be considered level and benefit of the doubt given to the forward - no such thing anymore. He's offside if his left ear is a millimetre past the defender's heel. It's a complete joke.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Very good player but unfortunately a very good diver too.
Would respect his game a lot more if he actually tried to stay on his feet.
The softest touch and his legs collapse.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2021)

Good finish but Liverpool paying the price for being so wasteful in the final third. They will get a goal as the Leicester defence won't hold given their injuries and playing out of position


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## BiMGuy (Dec 28, 2021)

TAA really is a poor defender. Get’s turned inside out easily then was too lazy to chase back. 

And VVD who is supposed to be the best defender in the world just crossed his legs 😂


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## Fade and Die (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Bowen needs to play for England , he is outstanding

His work rate is second only to rice and he really is a constant outlet
		
Click to expand...

He is really turning into a great player, shame Benrahma cannot step up from the championship level in the same way.
Thought Soucek looked much better in the more advanced position today, I wish him and Rice would swap positions like last season, I’m sure he would score more goals.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Unfortunately he’s in a queue.
I like him a lot but we have too many similar.
		
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The queue however isn't performing, Sancho, rashford even grealish and foden as it stands are out of form


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			He is really turning into a great player, shame Benrahma cannot step up from the championship level in the same way.
Thought Soucek looked much better in the more advanced position today, I wish him and Rice would swap positions like last season, I’m sure he would score more goals.
		
Click to expand...

Can he not? 8 goals and 3 assists this season

He is the latest Haller split the fanbase / scapegoat

He's performing well people just see 25 million and expect payet standard


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2021)

Liverpool seem very flat. I know Leicester are trying to kill the game but there doesn't appear to be any sense of urgency


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## adam6177 (Dec 28, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Liverpool seem very flat. I know Leicester are trying to kill the game but there doesn't appear to be any sense of urgency
		
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Leicester are playing well, we've not taken our chances and we have history of a post Christmas slump. A bit of composure between the team's is the difference.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The queue however isn't performing, Sancho, rashford even grealish and foden as it stands are out of form
		
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Grealish and Foden have been rested, dropped, twazzocks so Pep has fired a warning across the bows. That said Maher has been played more of late coz he is off to Africa shortly. Foden and Grealish should then rotate with Bernie and Stirling.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Grealish and Foden have been rested, dropped, twazzocks so Pep has fired a warning across the bows. That said Maher has been played more of late coz he is off to Africa shortly. Foden and Grealish should then rotate with Bernie and Stirling.
		
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really tough to fire a shot when you have 3 options in each position lol, arguable whether both are even in your best XI!!!!


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## BiMGuy (Dec 28, 2021)

Fixture congestion causing Liverpool problems 😂


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## Billysboots (Dec 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The queue however isn't performing, Sancho, rashford even grealish and foden as it stands are out of form
		
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Rashford, in particular, has been poor for months. I wouldn’t see him in a United shirt at the moment, never mind an England one.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			TAA really is a poor defender. Get’s turned inside out easily then was too lazy to chase back.

And VVD who is supposed to be the best defender in the world just crossed his legs 😂
		
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Been saying it for months regarding TAA


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2021)

Miss penalties , miss golden chances and you will get what you deserve - nothing , poor day at the office


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## GG26 (Dec 28, 2021)

Well fought boys, great win 😀


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2021)

Well played to the Foxes.
We were just slow, to many touches and poor finishing.
But in games like this were we just don’t click we really should not be losing.
Alison never touched the ball until he picked it out of the net.

Just a side comment if their defence is so bad at set pieces is it the personnel ?
Or the way Rodger’s sets them up?
The guys who played tonight played for the shirt and did it very well.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			TAA really is a poor defender. Get’s turned inside out easily then was too lazy to chase back.

And VVD who is supposed to be the best defender in the world just crossed his legs 😂
		
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Don’t give lookman any credit for a great goal!!!


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2021)

Karma,dont you just love to see it 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2021)

Utd close the gap on Liverpool


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			really tough to fire a shot when you have 3 options in each position lol, arguable whether both are even in your best XI!!!!
		
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Foden yes, Grealish. By his own admission needs to step up. Some Older City fans think Grealish is in a similar situation to when City signed Rodney Marsh Decades ago. A bit of a distraction. That said I cannot remember one City signing who has had doubters in there first season Or so. Stones, both Silvas, Cancelo, Sane, Gundoghan, Ederson. mind you he had it easy following on from Bravo. 😁


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2021)

Apparently Klopp has said Liverpool were not match fit 😁


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Foden yes, Grealish. By his own admission needs to step up. Some Older City fans think Grealish is in a similar situation to when City signed Rodney Marsh Decades ago. A bit of a distraction. That said I cannot remember one City signing who has had doubters in there first season Or so. Stones, both Silvas, Cancelo, Sane, Gundoghan, Ederson. mind you he had it easy following on from Bravo. 😁
		
Click to expand...


thats the problem when you have a massive squad and add a couple more as money is no object, very hard for players to improve on what you already have unless they fill an obvious gap. obviously youll find another 50m down the back of the sofa for another attempt at finding a left back in january and if theyll let you 100m+ for a striker. outside those 2 spots very hard for anyone, even at 100m, to come in and improve what you have bar in depth terms!


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Apparently Klopp has said Liverpool were not match fit 😁
		
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🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			thats the problem when you have a massive squad and add a couple more as money is no object, very hard for players to improve on what you already have unless they fill an obvious gap. obviously youll find another 50m down the back of the sofa for another attempt at finding a left back in january and if theyll let you 100m+ for a striker. outside those 2 spots very hard for anyone, even at 100m, to come in and improve what you have bar in depth terms!
		
Click to expand...

I think the starting LB is now Cancelo. Very odd coz he really did look like he was on his way out. He was more or less a swop for Danilo. Young Kev aka Zinchenko has played well covering at lb but the last few games I think he has been very poor. 
myself, I am trying to enjoy the last 18 months of Pep at City. He’s not done bad seeing as he was tipped to leave after a couple of years.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the starting LB is now Cancelo. Very odd coz he really did look like he was on his way out. He was more or less a swop for Danilo. Young Kev aka Zinchenko has played well covering at lb but the last few games I think he has been very poor.
myself, I am trying to enjoy the last 18 months of Pep at City. He’s not done bad seeing as he was tipped to leave after a couple of years.
		
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Cancelo still a right back though isnt he, only covering left back cos the boss doesnt fancy Zinchenko defensively and the last LB you paid 50m for is currently awaiting trial whilst Walker can do a job at RB when you have 80+% possession


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2021)

@Tashyboy there is a left back available just along the East Lancs Road. £50m to city 😉, special deal 😄


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## Beezerk (Dec 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Been saying it for months regarding TAA
		
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He is the Deli Ali of defenders, lazy and arrogant.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			He is the Deli Ali of defenders, lazy and arrogant.
		
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youll enjoy having Alli up at Newcastle, cracking shop window performance he put in again today


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			Cancelo still a right back though isnt he, only covering left back cos the boss doesnt fancy Zinchenko defensively and the last LB you paid 50m for is currently awaiting trial whilst Walker can do a job at RB when you have 80+% possession
		
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It’s odd talking about City defensively when so much focus has been on a free scoring City team. Here we are halfway through the season and we have the best defence in the league. Diaz is the main reason for that. Even Stones alongside look like Maldini. Again Laporte looked on his way out and is playing regular football again. The lb and rb spots are Walkers and Cancelos spot. Mendy is history, al Talk about him at a later date.Suffice to say he made Ballotelli look intelligent. Mendy spent to much time playing up to social media than focusing on football.
Walker like Stones has been excellent for the last couple of seasons.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Don’t give lookman any credit for a great goal!!!
		
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 It was a good goal. But some poor defending helped.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Tashyboy there is a left back available just along the East Lancs Road. £50m to city 😉, special deal 😄
		
Click to expand...

Dear god man you nearly went on ignore 😳😂


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## Beezerk (Dec 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			youll enjoy having Alli up at Newcastle, cracking shop window performance he put in again today 

Click to expand...

👀 I’m a Gateshead Town fan 😂


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 28, 2021)

GG26 said:



			Well fought boys, great win 😀
		
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The downside of which is having an insufferably smug Gary Lineker on MOTD.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			It’s odd talking about City defensively when so much focus has been on a free scoring City team. Here we are halfway through the season and we have the best defence in the league. Diaz is the main reason for that. Even Stones alongside look like Maldini. Again Laporte looked on his way out and is playing regular football again. The lb and rb spots are Walkers and Cancelos spot. Mendy is history, al Talk about him at a later date.Suffice to say he made Ballotelli look intelligent. Mendy spent to much time playing up to social media than focusing on football.
Walker like Stones has been excellent for the last couple of seasons.
		
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wasnt really talking about you defensively, more about how hard it is for a new player to make an impact in a squad where theres already 2+ world class players in most positions (as grealish has found out), only out and out striker and left back where currently it feels like someone could make a big impact quickly at city. youll clearly buy another left back in january and/or the summer, if hes good enough cancelo will go back to being a right back in the main. footballs a squad game and having guys who can play in multiple positions makes it easier for sure though

but lets be honest, you shipped 3 against leicester at the weekend, theres room for improvement at the back


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			👀 I’m a Gateshead Town fan 😂
		
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he'll be with you in a couple of years time


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 28, 2021)

A Liverpool loss and only 2 pages of posts, forum you disappoint me.


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## Foxholer (Dec 28, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			The downside of which is having an insufferably smug Gary Lineker on MOTD. 

Click to expand...

Have you seen the pic of him on BBC Sport site?


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## Foxholer (Dec 28, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Utd close the gap on Liverpool 

Click to expand...


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## Swingalot (Dec 28, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Rashford, in particular, has been poor for months. I wouldn’t see him in a United shirt at the moment, never mind an England one.
		
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Replace months with years and I agree. So many natural attributes but seems to be coasting through his career imo.


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## Jensen (Dec 28, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Any team that cant beat a ten man Southampton team has got problems 🤣🤣
		
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Tell me SaintHacker, do you celebrate a birdie the way Ward-Prowse celebrates when he scores 🤣


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2021)

fundy said:



			wasnt really talking about you defensively, more about how hard it is for a new player to make an impact in a squad where theres already 2+ world class players in most positions (as grealish has found out), only out and out striker and left back where currently it feels like someone could make a big impact quickly at city. youll clearly buy another left back in january and/or the summer, if hes good enough cancelo will go back to being a right back in the main. footballs a squad game and having guys who can play in multiple positions makes it easier for sure though

but lets be honest, you shipped 3 against leicester at the weekend, theres room for improvement at the back 

Click to expand...

ironically probably the worst defender was Diaz. Reason being if he gets another yellow,He is banned for a game. I watched him and those tackles 😉 that stop play. Similar to what Fernandinho does. He couldn’t do them. He was the closest I have seen to Maguire all season he was that bad 😁


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## Billysboots (Dec 28, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			Replace months with years and I agree. So many natural attributes but seems to be coasting through his career imo.
		
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He’s frustrating to watch in the extreme. I’ve said it here many times, but he’s hugely overrated. If any club came in with an offer worth looking at United should get rid.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			He’s frustrating to watch in the extreme. I’ve said it here many times, but he’s hugely overrated. If any club came in with an offer worth looking at United should get rid.
		
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I once watched him rip City apart using his pace, but I did think he needed  to be coached more.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2021)

Swingalot said:



			Replace months with years and I agree. So many natural attributes but seems to be coasting through his career imo.
		
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He gets a pass because of his charity work
Imo


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## Billysboots (Dec 28, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I once watched him rip City apart using his pace, but I did think he needed  to be coached more.
		
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Problem is, Tash, his pace really is his only asset. His decision making is atrocious and,  much as he is (or rather, was) capable of the extraordinary, he really doesn’t do the ordinary all that well much of the time.

There have been excuses made for him that he has had injuries, but all footballers have them and play through them. If he’s fit enough to play, he’s fit enough. I once heard a Premier League player, I forget who, say that he hardly ever played when he wasn’t carrying some niggle or other.

Rashford would not start at City, Liverpool or Chelsea. I really don’t understand the fascination, other than he is home grown.


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Problem is, Tash, his pace really is his only asset. His decision making is atrocious and,  much as he is (or rather, was) capable of the extraordinary, he really doesn’t do the ordinary all that well much of the time.

There have been excuses made for him that he has had injuries, but all footballers have them and play through them. If he’s fit enough to play, he’s fit enough. I once heard a Premier League player, I forget who, say that he hardly ever played when he wasn’t carrying some niggle or other.

Rashford would not start at City, Liverpool or Chelsea. I really don’t understand the fascination, other than he is home grown.
		
Click to expand...

We've discussed him before, but I agree. He's fast and has a cute trick in the locker, but can't really finish and doesn't create much either. Overrated. I'm sure he'll end up with a midtable side.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 28, 2021)

Thats a terrible dive by Son for the penalty. Shocking.


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## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats a terrible dive by Son for the penalty. Shocking.
		
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## Slime (Dec 28, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats a terrible dive by Son for the penalty. Shocking.
		
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That's what he does, possibly the most snide player in the league.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			That's what he does, possibly the most snide player in the league.
		
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No it wasn't I was being sarcastic, as some man u fans seemed to think that Mo's was a dive, so thought i'd save them a job.


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## Steve Wilkes (Dec 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats a terrible dive by Son for the penalty. Shocking.
		
Click to expand...

That was the only Penalty today
Mo went over an imaginary leg
The Palace guy kicked the ball against a blocking leg and somehow the force of the block made him fall to the ground
The West Ham guy placed his leg under a keeper diving on the ball


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 29, 2021)

Steve Wilkes said:



			That was the only Penalty today
Mo went over an imaginary leg
The Palace guy kicked the ball against a blocking leg and somehow the force of the block made him fall to the ground
The West Ham guy placed his leg under a keeper diving on the ball
		
Click to expand...

Shut up, soft arse.


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## SaintHacker (Dec 29, 2021)

Jensen said:



			Tell me SaintHacker, do you celebrate a birdie the way Ward-Prowse celebrates when he scores 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I'll let you know if I ever get one!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Dear god man you nearly went on ignore 😳😂
		
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Ha ha. Apparently Chelsea are sniffing about after Chilwell was ruled out for the season so maybe they can fill our coffers 👍. They still pay daft money every now and again 😄

We need to do a bit of book balancing still, FFP. Personally I think we should employ Barcelona's accountants. Near bankrupt one day, buying a £50m strike the next 🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Dec 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ha ha. Apparently Chelsea are sniffing about after Chilwell was ruled out for the season so maybe they can fill our coffers 👍. They still pay daft money every now and again 😄

We need to do a bit of book balancing still, FFP. Personally I think we should employ Barcelona's accountants. Near bankrupt one day, buying a £50m strike the next 🤷‍♂️
		
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I'd love him!! Cresswell is knocking on a bit .. we need replacement we will offer £20 plus a packet of McCoys?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd love him!! Cresswell is knocking on a bit .. we need replacement we will offer £20 plus a packet of McCoys?
		
Click to expand...

Salt and vinegar? If so, you're on 👍.

He is a very good player but something has gone wrong. Better to take the money rather than have an expensive player in the stands, unhappy in training  etc.


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## arnieboy (Dec 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			That's what he does, possibly the most snide player in the league.
		
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Not a Spurs fan then Slime?


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## Slime (Dec 29, 2021)

arnieboy said:



			Not a Spurs fan then Slime?
		
Click to expand...

Certainly not a Son fan!
Good footballer, but an absolutely awful cheat with a real nasty streak, one of the very worst.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 29, 2021)

Slime said:



			Certainly not a Son fan!
Good footballer, but an absolutely awful cheat with a real nasty streak, one of the very worst.
		
Click to expand...

I'm with you here, when he tripped Gomez and everyone was like oh but it's son he didn't mean it i was fed up of people sticking up for him. He has a real nasty streak. Stamped on Snodgrass sly style, sent off for pushing against Bournemouth. He's pure snide 

Don't get me wrong he is a very skilful and good player but people try and kid themselves that he isnt a dirty sod


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## pokerjoke (Dec 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			No it wasn't I was being sarcastic, as some man u fans seemed to think that Mo's was a dive, so thought i'd save them a job. 

Click to expand...

Not necessarily a dive Pete just the faintest of touches and he crumples up like he’s been poleaxed.
Anyway justice was done.
We all have them and imo its pretty sad the refs fall for these soft pens.
Head injuries now are stopping the game far to often because players are playing on it purely because refs now have to stop the game for a head injury.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

I see Watford are trying to get Dennis out of the Afcon on a technicality, why do i think they wont be the last lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			I see Watford are trying to get Dennis out of the Afcon on a technicality, why do i think they wont be the last lol
		
Click to expand...

This, not your post 😄, and the bi-annual whine about this tournament irritates me every time. When you buy a player who qualifies to play in this tournament you know the score before you buy them. This isn't new, it has been happening for years. Suck it up clubs, factor it in, stop whingeing.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This, not your post 😄, and the bi-annual whine about this tournament irritates me every time. When you buy a player who qualifies to play in this tournament you know the score before you buy them. This isn't new, it has been happening for years. Suck it up clubs, factor it in, stop whingeing.
		
Click to expand...


Arsenal fans not that fussed this year lol, Aubam, Pepe and Partey, 2 not in the side and the other one not overly rated by the fans. August they thought it would be the end of the world......


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			Arsenal fans not that fussed this year lol, Aubam, Pepe and Partey, 2 not in the side and the other one not overly rated by the fans. August they thought it would be the end of the world......
		
Click to expand...

We only lose Iwobi, except it is no loss as you well know 😭.


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## Hogieefc (Dec 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We only lose Iwobi, except it is no loss as you well know 😭.
		
Click to expand...

Losing Iwobi actually improves the squad


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			I see Watford are trying to get Dennis out of the Afcon on a technicality, why do i think they wont be the last lol
		
Click to expand...

What’s the technicality ?


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			What’s the technicality ?
		
Click to expand...


Nigeria didnt notify them that he was to be part of their squad by the required date or some other spurious bureaucratic rubbish


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 29, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Not necessarily a dive Pete just the faintest of touches and he crumples up like he’s been poleaxed.
Anyway justice was done.
We all have them and imo its pretty sad the refs fall for these soft pens.
Head injuries now are stopping the game far to often because players are playing on it purely because refs now have to stop the game for a head injury.
		
Click to expand...

The Salah pen, like the Son one was one of the easiest pens to give in months.

You really are beyond help, does your bias even make things up nowadays - you need to get some tablets.

They were both cast iron penalties.

I'm seriously thinking of adding to my ignore list. for 8 years on here I could have a conversation with you on here, whats changed? Liverpool just better than your team now, so you make crap up. Lifes too short.....


----------



## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			The Salah pen, like the Son one was one of the easiest pens to give in months.

You really are beyond help, does your bias even make things up nowadays - you need to get some tablets.

They were both cast iron penalties.
		
Click to expand...

In the modern game it is a penalty, but boy he goes down mighty easy for someone we keep being told is so strong and ripped lol, not a chance the contact caused him to go down but the fact there is contact and he chose to go down all it needs these days


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			In the modern game it is a penalty, but boy he goes down mighty easy for someone we keep being told is so strong and ripped lol, not a chance the contact caused him to go down but the fact there is contact and he chose to go down all it needs these days
		
Click to expand...

I thought the foul was more than enough for him to go down. There is even a massive amount of stupidity by the guy fouling him, as there was aven cover there - he dived in, took the man, didnt take the ball - pen all day long, even years ago.

Mane tried to stand up (unusually) 2-3 times last year and didnt get pens when he should have. Refs are that bad, if you dont go down you get nothing. I hate it that they have to, but refs are not helping themselves by this.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This, not your post 😄, and the bi-annual whine about this tournament irritates me every time. When you buy a player who qualifies to play in this tournament you know the score before you buy them. This isn't new, it has been happening for years. Suck it up clubs, factor it in, stop whingeing.
		
Click to expand...

There is an exception to this IMO

for example when we signed haller he was a french striker... when he left he was ivory coast lol

almost happened with diop aswell .. now he is currently french but does qualify for Morocco through his mum and Senegal through his dad... say at start of season he had declared for either of them and been off.. back then might not have seemed an issue but now... he may be 4th choice CB but right now he is starting due to zouma and ogbonna being injured


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## DanFST (Dec 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Mane tried to stand up (unusually) 2-3 times last year and didnt get pens when he should have. Refs are that bad, if you dont go down you get nothing. I hate it that they have to, but refs are not helping themselves by this.
		
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I hate it, but I agree with you.

We lost to Arsenal a few years back after Jarvis tried to get a shot away after being taken out it bobbled 2 foot. no pen given. Manager was furious. The problem is it's so bad, the faster players a la Mane and Salah can run and plant their leg in an unnatural position waiting for contact, almost forcing it. It's actually a skill. 

A skill which ruins football for me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2021)

Good thread here giving an update on semi-automated VAR and a discussion on the Kane offside.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475870865833304065


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			There is an exception to this IMO

for example when we signed haller he was a french striker... when he left he was ivory coast lol

almost happened with diop aswell .. now he is currently french but does qualify for Morocco through his mum and Senegal through his dad... say at start of season he had declared for either of them and been off.. back then might not have seemed an issue but now... he may be 4th choice CB but right now he is starting due to zouma and ogbonna being injured
		
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Happy to give you that. I can't get my head around people who swap like that, in any sport.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Happy to give you that. I can't get my head around people who swap like that, in any sport.
		
Click to expand...

its odd yes but then Rice has done it... but then again these nations tap up talent young dont they..  he is born and bread in london.. qualifies for ireland through his grandparents .. allowed to switch to england (thankfully for england!)

seem to remember Zaha did it due to fed up of not getting in england team

Haller done it because he nowhere near france level

Grealish and Rice did it to try and win something as opposed to not being quiet good enough for the team they qualify for

but then rice and grealish with their thick london and brummy accents are defo irish lol

bit like Antonio and Jamaica (has really not helped us) decided he isnt good enough for england and wants international football.. so I know im 31 (almost 32) rather than prolong my career and protect my glass hamstrings ill jet off to the otherside the world lol


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## DanFST (Dec 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Happy to give you that. I can't get my head around people who swap like that, in any sport.
		
Click to expand...


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## pauljames87 (Dec 29, 2021)

DanFST said:













Click to expand...

still one of the most annoyingly selfish decisions ive seen in the game... could really do with him protecting himself during the international breaks rather than jetting off to the other side of the world to feed his ego.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			its odd yes but then Rice has done it... but then again these nations tap up talent young dont they..  he is born and bread in london.. qualifies for ireland through his grandparents .. allowed to switch to england (thankfully for england!)

seem to remember Zaha did it due to fed up of not getting in england team

Haller done it because he nowhere near france level

Grealish and Rice did it to try and win something as opposed to not being quiet good enough for the team they qualify for

but then rice and grealish with their thick london and brummy accents are defo irish lol

bit like Antonio and Jamaica (has really not helped us) decided he isnt good enough for england and wants international football.. so I know im 31 (almost 32) rather than prolong my career and protect my glass hamstrings ill jet off to the otherside the world lol
		
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I'd want to feel pride when playing for my country, it shouldn't be a business decision. The rules in most sports are embarrassing on this front now.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd want to feel pride when playing for my country, it shouldn't be a business decision. The rules in most sports are embarrassing on this front now.
		
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Its the one thing I respect Mark Noble for

he captained england u21s to the euros finals wasnt it? scoring 2 pens in a shoot out (someone was sent off) and we still didnt win lol

However he refused call up to the Ireland squad (a few times im told) as he didnt feel right playing for them as he saw himself as english not irish


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			Nigeria didnt notify them that he was to be part of their squad by the required date or some other spurious bureaucratic rubbish
		
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Well that’s why they have dates I suppose.
So they might be successful but that’s not good for his international future.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 29, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well that’s why they have dates I suppose.
So they might be successful but that’s not good for his international future.
		
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I remember when we had Sakho at our club and he pulled out of the ACON injured (bad back) but something like week or so later he played for us and Senegal tried to get him banned for playing for us during the ACON.. even though the doctors had said he wasnt fit to fly and we had to drive him (not on the coach) to the game so he was fit to play

he was a very odd one tho.. looked great for us when fit but after he left he has done nothing in his entire career and before us he was just some french league 2 player

just seemed to be right club right time


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## pokerjoke (Dec 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			The Salah pen, like the Son one was one of the easiest pens to give in months.

You really are beyond help, does your bias even make things up nowadays - you need to get some tablets.

They were both cast iron penalties.

I'm seriously thinking of adding to my ignore list. for 8 years on here I could have a conversation with you on here, whats changed? Liverpool just better than your team now, so you make crap up. Lifes too short.....
		
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Lifes too short?
It takes 10 minutes to have a debate
Bias? I’ve said we all have them.
Cast iron penalty? You wouldn’t go down if someone touch you in the street that soft, his legs crumple,it’s just ridiculous.
Yes worse than you and have been for ages and it will continue for a while yet.


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## 4LEX (Dec 29, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Problem is, Tash, his pace really is his only asset. His decision making is atrocious and,  much as he is (or rather, was) capable of the extraordinary, he really doesn’t do the ordinary all that well much of the time.

There have been excuses made for him that he has had injuries, but all footballers have them and play through them. If he’s fit enough to play, he’s fit enough. I once heard a Premier League player, I forget who, say that he hardly ever played when he wasn’t carrying some niggle or other.

Rashford would not start at City, Liverpool or Chelsea. I really don’t understand the fascination, other than he is home grown.
		
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I've always rated and defended Rashford as he has put his body through the pain to bail Ole out for years but he's been woeful this season since his return. Almost as bad as playing with 10 men type of bad. No touch, can't beat anyone, can't make simple passes and dire finishing.

His pace and workrate which was what set him apart has vanished. He's also only got one position and that's as a left forward in a 433 or 4231. Utd will surely ditch the horrendous new formation or play Ronaldo and Cavani as the front two for a few games in a bid to save it.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

How is that not a red for rudiger?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			How is that not a red for rudiger?
		
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I think just far enough away from Lamptey to get away with it. Reckless and out of control though so had it been red there could have been little argument. It could have been unpleasant. 

I know Clattenburg loved himself as a ref but he is far better as the ref in the studio than Peter Walton. Is Walton on BT? I don't have bt but I have been elsewhere and watched games and it's the only other channel I can think of who might have him. They collect rubbish pundits


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think just far enough away from Lamptey to get away with it. Reckless and out of control though so had it been red there could have been little argument. It could have been unpleasant.

I know Clattenburg loved himself as a ref but he is far better as the ref in the studio than Peter Walton. Is Walton on BT?
		
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Theyre both horrific, just try and justify the onfield decision all the time. Clattenburg described that as a slide! He clearly jumped!!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			Theyre both horrific, just try and justify the onfield decision all the time. Clattenburg described that as a slide! He clearly jumped!!!
		
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I heard Clattenburg the other day, can't remember the game, and he actually stated the ref got it wrong. It took me back but good to hear.

I agree, it wasn't a slide, it was a 2 footed jump.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I heard Clattenburg the other day, can't remember the game, and he actually stated the ref got it wrong. It took me back but good to hear.

I agree, it wasn't a slide, it was a 2 footed jump.
		
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hell have been brought back into line for a daft comment like that at the weekend no doubt by Riley and cronies


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 29, 2021)

Clinical by City.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Dec 29, 2021)

What a footballer Phil Foden is. A delight to watch.


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## Piece (Dec 29, 2021)

Tidy header from Welbeck at the death.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Piece said:



			Tidy header from Welbeck at the death.
		
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nice to see them score an actual goal not just an expected one.....


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## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2021)

I never thought i'd say this but Welbeck has just Brighton'd my evening😉


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			I never thought i'd say this but Welbeck has just Brighton'd my evening😉
		
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Do you think the Chelsea game is your PL season. Should you lose do you think you could still make the gap back to City even with the games in hand?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Do you think the Chelsea game is your PL season. Should you lose do you think you could still make the gap back to City even with the games in hand?
		
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The next game after a horrid performance and defeat  is always a six pointer so to speak. With Covid ripping through squads this season you can't write anything off. 

It's tough ask but whilst its possible i'll believe.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			The next game after a horrid performance and defeat  is always a six pointer so to speak. With Covid ripping through squads this season you can't write anything off.

It's tough ask but whilst its possible i'll believe.
		
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Was it a horrid performance? Controlled possession but just so poor in the box and seemed panicked in front of goal. Chelsea are definitely gettable


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## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Was it a horrid performance? Controlled possession but just so poor in the box and seemed panicked in front of goal. Chelsea are definitely gettable
		
Click to expand...

For me yes. Not seen it back  neither. 

That pen goes in and its a different game/result. It never and whilst we had a couple of really good chances and  shouldve won we never put the ball in back of the net.

For me, certain players  underperformed and Klopps subs were awful.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

As a neutral, yep horrid performance, Salah had a rare off day and the rest looked like they didnt know which way to turn

Chelsea were little better tonight either for that matter

Anyone for a Brentford equaliser


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## Golfmmad (Dec 29, 2021)

Once again no one mentions Brighton, except Stu C! 😁 
A great goal from Welbeck and a well deserved draw!


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			Once again no one mentions Brighton, except Stu C! 😁
A great goal from Welbeck and a well deserved draw!
		
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Pieces post not exist then?

If you want to mention them crack on....

fwiw if you had a proper striker youd have been disappointed not to win the game


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 29, 2021)

DanFST said:



			I hate it, but I agree with you.

We lost to Arsenal a few years back after Jarvis tried to get a shot away after being taken out it bobbled 2 foot. no pen given. Manager was furious. The problem is it's so bad, the faster players a la Mane and Salah can run and plant their leg in an unnatural position waiting for contact, almost forcing it. It's actually a skill.

A skill which ruins football for me.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, but also sick of the odd time our players are honest and get punished for it.

Vardy is the king of moving the foot towards the player to initiate contact which is a different thing, but luckily the refs sometimes look out for that now.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree, but also sick of the odd time our players are honest and get punished for it.

Vardy is the king of moving the foot towards the player to initiate contact which is a different thing, but luckily the refs sometimes look out for that now.
		
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the really sad thing is it is encouraged by managers and praised by commentators as "earning" a pen/free kick

call it out for the cheating it is, punish them retrospectively and continue to do so until its not worth them spending an hour a day on simulation in training!

Salah, Kane, Sterling, Vardy, Lacazette - theres 5 nice high profile ones to start with and make an example of, plenty more behind too


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## Golfmmad (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			Pieces post not exist then?

If you want to mention them crack on....

fwiw if you had a proper striker youd have been disappointed not to win the game
		
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What, "Tidy header from Welbeck at the death"? 
No mention of Brighton. 
Oh, and Chelsea has millions of pounds worth of strikers and like Brighton, could only put one past us. 👍


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			What, "Tidy header from Welbeck at the death"?
No mention of Brighton.
Oh, and Chelsea has millions of pounds worth of strikers and like Brighton, could only put one past us. 👍
		
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sorry did Wellbeck not score for Brighton then? confused.com


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			the really sad thing is it is encouraged by managers and praised by commentators as "earning" a pen/free kick

call it out for the cheating it is, punish them retrospectively and continue to do so until its not worth them spending an hour a day on simulation in training!

Salah, Kane, Sterling, Vardy, Lacazette - theres 5 nice high profile ones to start with and make an example of, plenty more behind too 

Click to expand...


better add Maupay to the list, dont want the Brighton fans feeling left out again


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			the really sad thing is it is encouraged by managers and praised by commentators as "earning" a pen/free kick

call it out for the cheating it is, punish them retrospectively and continue to do so until its not worth them spending an hour a day on simulation in training!

Salah, Kane, Sterling, Vardy, Lacazette - theres 5 nice high profile ones to start with and make an example of, plenty more behind too 

Click to expand...

Agreed, although england captains should get double punishment.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Agreed, although england captains should get double punishment. 

Click to expand...


As you might expect sir, you will find no disagreement from me on this point


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## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2021)

Liverbirdie said:



			Agreed, although england captains should get double punishment. 

Click to expand...

Getting punished to begin with would be a  start.


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## Golfmmad (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			better add Maupay to the list, dont want the Brighton fans feeling left out again 

Click to expand...

No need for sarcasm. 
I just get peed off with constant posts about Man City, Liverpool and Man U to name a few. But not just Brighton, it'd be nice to read some positives about other teams too.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			No need for sarcasm.
I just get peed off with constant posts about Man City, Liverpool and Man U to name a few. But not just Brighton, it'd be nice to read some positives about other teams too.
		
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Well post about them then  People post about their own side, their rivals and then invariably the bigger sides, thats just how it is. Happily discuss Brighton, would certainly make a nice change


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## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			No need for sarcasm.
I just get peed off with constant posts about Man City, Liverpool and Man U to name a few. But not just Brighton, it'd be nice to read some positives about other teams too.
		
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Let me assure you there are no constant posts about City. I’m fact you are the first to mention City ( and there rammel performance ) tonight.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Let me assure you there are no constant posts about City. I’m fact you are the first to mention City ( and there rammel performance ) tonight.
		
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you got me on ignore again Tashy


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## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			you got me on ignore again Tashy 

Click to expand...

You have never been on ignore me man. Been close a few times though 😂👍


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## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



			you got me on ignore again Tashy 

Click to expand...

Just incase you have @Tashyboy  😉😁😁


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## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Just incase you have @Tashyboy  😉😁😁
		
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😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
call heads or tails Stu for an ignore 👍😁


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## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
call heads or tails Stu for an ignore 👍😁
		
Click to expand...

Who said that 😉


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)




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## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			Who said that 😉
		
Click to expand...

The invisible man
“Just like a fan of the invisible man, we’re not really here”. 😁


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## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2021)

fundy said:



View attachment 40194

Click to expand...

Who’s title challenge is that aimed at 😉


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Who’s title challenge is that aimed at 😉
		
Click to expand...


theres only one title challenge left isnt there? 10/1 bar city before the new year lol


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## Piece (Dec 30, 2021)

Golfmmad said:



			What, "Tidy header from Welbeck at the death"?
No mention of Brighton.
Oh, and Chelsea has millions of pounds worth of strikers and like Brighton, could only put one past us. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Is this better?

Tidy finish from Danny Welbeck, the ex-Arsenal, Man Utd and Watford striker, who now plys his trade, when fit, down at Brighton and Hove Albion (nicknamed the Seagulls, formed in 1901, play in blue and white strips, home ground The Amex, a nice stadium easy to get to when travelling by train), at the death.

😉


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## Captainron (Dec 30, 2021)

Get your bids in for the silent auction to keep @Liverpoolphil off this thread.👌


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## pauljames87 (Dec 30, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Get your bids in for the silent auction to keep @Liverpoolphil off this thread.👌
		
Click to expand...


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## Captainron (Dec 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 40202

Click to expand...

Stop low balling


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## nickjdavis (Dec 30, 2021)

The transfer window cannot open quickly enough.

The media are clutching at some pretty tenuous straws with regards Newcastle's new found wealth...

Newcastle United: How 2005 film Goal! became Magpies' transfer trump card - BBC Sport


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 30, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Get your bids in for the silent auction to keep @Liverpoolphil off this thread.👌
		
Click to expand...

How’s about off the forum,make some SERIOUS  money 😂😂😂😂
Throw me in aswell if you want 😬😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 30, 2021)

If the BBC graphic is to be believed United are sticking to the 4-2-2-2 formation https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59764946


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## Tashyboy (Dec 30, 2021)

Maguire playing Varane on bench 🤔😳


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 30, 2021)

Burnley creating some good chances but this looks a better and more cohesive United performance.


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2021)

just got in, worried about the squirrells absence......


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## Slime (Dec 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			just got in, worried about the squirrells absence......
		
Click to expand...

Just got back to my keyboard, it looks like I missed three opportunities to exhibit my furry friends!
Hopefully I'll get an opportunity or two in the second half.
I do apologise.


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## Captainron (Dec 30, 2021)

McGuire is a defensive Donkey.


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2021)

Captainron said:



			McGuire is a defensive Donkey.
		
Click to expand...

He’s nothing like that good.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 30, 2021)

Slime said:



			Just got back to my keyboard, it looks like I missed three opportunities to exhibit my furry friends!
Hopefully I'll get an opportunity or two in the second half.
I do apologise.
		
Click to expand...

I think unimpressed squirrel might be a little bit more impressed this evening.


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## 4LEX (Dec 30, 2021)

Someone needs to give Maguire a month off. No idea what's happened to him but he's so low on confidence it's actually sad to watch. He's not the greatest centre back on the planet but he's so much better than his form this season.


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## Slime (Dec 30, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Someone needs to give Maguire a month off. No idea what's happened to him but he's so low on confidence it's actually sad to watch. He's not the greatest centre back on the planet but he's so much better than his form this season.
		
Click to expand...

Send him away with Rashford.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 30, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Someone needs to give Maguire a month off. No idea what's happened to him but he's so low on confidence it's actually sad to watch. He's not the greatest centre back on the planet but he's so much better than his form this season.
		
Click to expand...

I posted on here re Maguire when I saw the team had been selected. For me the Maguire situation sums up Utds problems. They are playing on the back of a big name and not a big performance. How the hell Maguire gets in before Varane is beyond me. But it’s not just Maguire. You could pick another three or four that need a kick up the backside and dropping. Fred and Rashford being two others.


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I posted on here re Maguire when I saw the team had been selected. For me the Maguire situation sums up Utds problems. They are playing on the back of a big name and not a big performance. How the hell Maguire gets in before Varane is beyond me. But it’s not just Maguire. You could pick another three or four that need a kick up the backside and dropping. Fred and Rashford being two others.
		
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you mean the Fred and Rashford that were dropped tonight Tashy?


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## Tashyboy (Dec 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			you mean the Fred and Rashford that were dropped tonight Tashy?
		
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Of course they were dropped, and for the right reasons but you can put Maguire in with that lot as well. And he is not the only one. And no disrespect. It was Burnley. For the record Utd made 6 changes. It could and should of been 7. Utd for to long have played out of form players.

Take the positives out of it, the gaps not as big and your closer to Liverpool 😉


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I posted on here re Maguire when I saw the team had been selected. For me the Maguire situation sums up Utds problems. They are playing on the back of a big name and not a big performance. How the hell Maguire gets in before Varane is beyond me. But it’s not just Maguire. You could pick another three or four that need a kick up the backside and dropping. Fred and Rashford being two others.
		
Click to expand...

In fairness I suspect Varane is being managed back after his injury lay off - when fully fit he’ll start most games.

I’d actually like to see Varane and Bailly as a pair, although it looks very much as though the latter has yet another injury. He reads the game so well but needs a steady head alongside him, something he hasn’t had in all his time at the club.

There is still so much work to do before United are a force again. Maguire was dreadful, AWB not much better. The squad is just full of decent players, but decent doesn’t win titles. I believe a good half dozen are out of contract in the summer, possibly more, so suspect we will see a very different looking United in twelve months.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 31, 2021)

Norwich playing a blinder ... Can't get relegated if they don't play their games lol 

Game off


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## Orikoru (Dec 31, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Norwich playing a blinder ... Can't get relegated if they don't play their games lol

Game off
		
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FFS... my fantasy league change this week was putting Tielemans in. Fantasy is a bloody bust this year, what's the point?? 😫


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 31, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Someone needs to give Maguire a month off. No idea what's happened to him but he's so low on confidence it's actually sad to watch. He's not the greatest centre back on the planet but he's so much better than his form this season.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree he’s a decent player but imo it’s what’s in front of him that’s the main problem.
They need a decent player in front of them that dosnt give the ball away to much.
But like golf confidence is everything.


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			FFS... my fantasy league change this week was putting Tielemans in. Fantasy is a bloody bust this year, what's the point?? 😫
		
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the drafts good fun when like this as you can make unlimited changes using the players available - see some very odd last minute transfers lol


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## Piece (Dec 31, 2021)

These words from Lukaku. Don’t seem very timely or needed? Or taken out of context?


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2021)

EFL being nicely inconsistent, Middlesborough have 19 positive tests, 9 are players, 7 in their starting line up. EFL have reportedly told them to recall loan signings to be able to play as they wont be cancelling their game tomorrow

No surprise its the tv game!


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2021)

Piece said:



			These words from Lukaku. Don’t seem very timely or needed? Or taken out of context?
		
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think the interview was done a while ago but only just been released. Tuchel not impressed it seems


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

Nice to see us finally having a go against one of the top sides, best weve played for a long while this, not sure they can stay at this tempo for 90 mins though, lets hope so

Ederson very very fortunate on Odegaard


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

Best 45 mins I can remember from Arsenal lately, cracking goal and arguably could be further ahead. Long long 2nd half coming up


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## paddyc (Jan 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			Best 45 mins I can remember from Arsenal lately, cracking goal and arguably could be further ahead. Long long 2nd half coming up
		
Click to expand...

Super performance  so far. Going to need a monumental effort to still win this.Need to stop KDB getting on the ball and giving him space to control the game.


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

Stuart Attwell lol


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## paddyc (Jan 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			Stuart Attwell lol
		
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How is that more than a pen then first half on Odegaard. Very soft,clear and obvious mistake by ref ffs you are joking


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

and then we self destruct sigh


----------



## Swango1980 (Jan 1, 2022)

Arsenal played brilliantly for about an hour, that is for sure. However, not sure if it is the officials, or Arsenal's loss of discipline that have potentially ruined the game for Arsenal. Just been a bizarre 5 or 10 minutes really. VAR has done nothing for clearer penalties than that one.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2022)

Thats a harsh 2nd yellow IMO.

If that pen is the standard then there should be a pen given at 99% of corners.

VAR replays should be shown in full speed too, it looks a lot worse in Slo mo.


----------



## pendodave (Jan 1, 2022)

Hmmm.
As a non goon, it was probably a pen (xhaka tripped him and had his shirt). I don't think you can offset it against previous dodgy calls...
As for the sending off, both were brainless. 
Arse pretending they are fergie Utd getting stroppy all the time with the ref is not a zero sum game...


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Thats a harsh 2nd yellow IMO.

If that pen is the standard then there should be a pen given at 99% of corners.

VAR replays should be shown in full speed too, it looks a lot worse in Slo mo.
		
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Made to look worse by Jesus' dive.


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			Best 45 mins I can remember from Arsenal lately, cracking goal and arguably could be further ahead. Long long 2nd half coming up
		
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too long 

some encouraging signs despite the loss (and some old frustrations still)


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## Swango1980 (Jan 1, 2022)

Arsenal were by far the better team today. Even when down to 10 men, you wouldn't have noticed based on how they played.

The penalty is one of those things that could have gone either way, but shocking that VAR forced the refs hand in changing his decision. The second yellow card was really harsh, especially when the incident happened so quickly and it was a momentary instinctive reaction. I'm sure many refs would have not given a yellow, especially as it would mean a red.

Mind you, as a Utd fan I guess I should be pleased, as we'll never catch City this season.


----------



## paddyc (Jan 1, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Hmmm.
As a non goon, it was probably a pen (xhaka tripped him and had his shirt). I don't think you can offset it against previous dodgy calls...
As for the sending off, both were brainless.
Arse pretending they are fergie Utd getting stroppy all the time with the ref is not a zero sum game...
		
Click to expand...

Obviously  a spurs fan who needs to go to Specsavers!


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## Beezerk (Jan 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Arsenal were by far the better team today. Even when down to 10 men, you wouldn't have noticed based on how they played.
		
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Wow, they could barely get the ball when I was watching 😳

Btw how shocking are the commentators on BT, awful.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 1, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Wow, they could barely get the ball when I was watching 😳

Btw how shocking are the commentators on BT, awful.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe less possession, but City didn't look a threat, and Arsenal looked like they could still be a threat.

Martin Keown is a candidate for the stupidest co commentator in football. McManaman was trying to ask him was VAR right in getting ref to review the penalty. He kept answering the ref had little choice to give a penalty as VAR asked him to review it. No matter how many times McManaman asked the question, Keown did not understand the question at all. 

Just saw the slow motion of the Arsenal penalty that wasnt given, and one angle clearly shows the keeper kicked the Arsenal players foot before the ball. Absolutely clear. Yet, Walton after game tries to defend VAR by saying it was a subjective call, but also understands Rio's point it was a clear penalty. Sums it up really.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 1, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Wow, they could barely get the ball when I was watching 😳

Btw *how shocking are the commentators on BT*, awful.
		
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McManaman is appalling, but Peter Walton trying to defend VAR is even worse, and frankly embarrassing.  Apparently VAR wasn't brought in to see minute detail   Well it seems to be doing exactly that for offside decisions.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			McManaman is appalling, but Peter Walton trying to defend VAR is even worse, and frankly embarrassing.  Apparently VAR wasn't brought in to see minute detail   Well it seems to be doing exactly that for offside decisions. 

Click to expand...

Didnt Peter Walton say he didn’t think it would/should be overturned?

I agree McManaman is shocking. Changes his mind from game to game whats a foul and and a pen.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 1, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Obviously  a spurs fan who needs to go to Specsavers!
		
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Dave’s a Hammer. ⚒⚒⚒👍

And there is nothing wrong with his eyesight.


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## DanFST (Jan 1, 2022)

Hmm, Arsenal fans had no problems with the Coufal "penalty" and red card the other week?


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Hmm, Arsenal fans had no problems with the Coufal "penalty" and red card the other week?
		
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not sure that was my view at the time


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Hmm, Arsenal fans had no problems with the Coufal "penalty" and red card the other week?
		
Click to expand...

thought all fans (including arsenal) on here (and off here I found) were against the pen

only people that thought was a pen was the ref, VAR and Moyes ironically


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 1, 2022)

That’s a great finish .Lanzini.

Didn’t see the City game but looks like the reffing was the usual standard.


----------



## IanM (Jan 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a great finish .Lanzini.

Didn’t see the City game but looks like the reffing was the usual standard.
		
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Effing Reffing?


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a great finish .Lanzini.

Didn’t see the City game but looks like the reffing was the usual standard.
		
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He loves a goal against palace, 5 in 10 games against them

2-0 is massively flattering us should be 2-2 at least


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

100% handball. Not even a question but a pen? Hard to say 100% for me

When it happened I thought that's a free kick 

If it goes in then even harder on palace


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## Fade and Die (Jan 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He loves a goal against palace, 5 in 10 games against them

2-0 is massively flattering us should be 2-2 at least
		
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How are we 3 up?😂😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			How are we 3 up?😂😂😂
		
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I dunno! I mean all 3 of our goals are deserved in one way as in the play for them was outstanding and that was handball

However it should be 5-3 to them


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## pendodave (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			How are we 3 up?😂😂😂
		
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Lol. Just remember how many times we've coughed up a loss when playing well. Still think we need a fourth...
Pen was so annoying if you're a palace fan. Totally innocuous, no-one anywhere near. Seems like a massive punishment for a trivial mistake.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			100% handball. Not even a question but a pen? Hard to say 100% for me

When it happened I thought that's a free kick

If it goes in then even harder on palace
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree that it's a penalty but how hasn't the ref given that without needing VAR? He's stood about 5 yards away and has a clear view of it. Are refs bottling giving decisions because they know they've got VAR to make the decision for them?


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Lol. Just remember how many times we've coughed up a loss when playing well. Still think we need a fourth...
Pen was so annoying if you're a palace fan. Totally innocuous, no-one anywhere near. Seems like a massive punishment for a trivial mistake.
		
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Poor mistake by him tho, didn't need to handle it


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a great finish .Lanzini.

Didn’t see the City game but looks like *the reffing was the usual standard*.
		
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I'd argue that they've plumbed new depths.


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## Orikoru (Jan 1, 2022)

Not a Lanzini fan but that goal of his was pure quality. Great feet. Palace started the better but found themselves 3-0 down at the break. I guess that's football sometimes.

Spurs desperately need a creative player in the Eriksen mould. All we do is potter around with the ball until we eventually stick a cross in. Which invariably doesn't find anyone. Particularly when we play a team that just wants to sit back and defend. It's very hopeful and not fantastic to watch, we just can't break them down. No creativity at all. Ndombele should be that guy if he could actually be bothered.


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## Slime (Jan 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Not a Lanzini fan but that goal of his was pure quality. Great feet. Palace started the better but found themselves 3-0 down at the break. I guess that's football sometimes.

Spurs desperately need *a creative player *in the Eriksen mould. All we do is potter around with the ball until we eventually stick a cross in. Which invariably doesn't find anyone. Particularly when we play a team that just wants to sit back and defend. It's very hopeful and not fantastic to watch, we just can't break them down. No creativity at all. *Ndombele should be that guy if he could actually be bothered.*

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, we have one of those. He's called Paul Pogba!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2022)

Looks like Lanzini had gotten over his injury issues - very good classy player , quality strike


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## pendodave (Jan 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Not a Lanzini fan
		
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Still salty about THAT goal, obvs... ;-)


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## Fade and Die (Jan 1, 2022)

Phew that was a bit of a nervous last few minutes 😅 but as they say in golf…no pictures on a score card! A win is a win..3 points.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Phew that was a bit of a nervous last few minutes 😅 but as they say in golf…no pictures on a score card! A win is a win..3 points.
		
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Definitely made it harder than it needed to be but as you say, a win is a win


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Not a Lanzini fan but that goal of his was pure quality. Great feet. Palace started the better but found themselves 3-0 down at the break. I guess that's football sometimes.

Spurs desperately need a creative player in the Eriksen mould. All we do is potter around with the ball until we eventually stick a cross in. Which invariably doesn't find anyone. Particularly when we play a team that just wants to sit back and defend. It's very hopeful and not fantastic to watch, we just can't break them down. No creativity at all. Ndombele should be that guy if he could actually be bothered.
		
Click to expand...





Best player in history is


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Phew that was a bit of a nervous last few minutes 😅 but as they say in golf…no pictures on a score card! A win is a win..3 points.
		
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Feels like we leveled up after the Southampton game .. both against the run of play 3-2 wins but again the run of general play

Unlucky palace .. they certainly have some good players .. even with Gallagher and zaha out


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

Ive heard Burnley want 7 million for tarkowski.. we should be all over that .. him a zouma would be outstanding together. 

Very impressed with us once again. Regardless of the hard work we made of it 

We have had just 1 game called off , players are tired .. playing against fresher teams at times.. but that aside how many times wouldn't struggle with 3 out of 4 of their first choice back line out injured ...

Very happy with our performances


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 1, 2022)

Just heard Vieira’s post match interview. One of the best I’ve ever heard tbh. That man will be moving on to bigger things before too long…..


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Just heard Vieira’s post match interview. One of the best I’ve ever heard tbh. That man will be moving on to bigger things before too long…..







Click to expand...

How refreshing . Maybe he can replace the clown at arsenal ATM


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Just heard Vieira’s post match interview. One of the best I’ve ever heard tbh. That man will be moving on to bigger things before too long…..







Click to expand...


hopefully the legend comes home to North London


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Phew that was a bit of a nervous last few minutes 😅 but as they say in golf…no pictures on a score card! A win is a win..3 points.
		
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try telling that to someone who had a score at 25/1 Any other away win lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Just heard Vieira’s post match interview. One of the best I’ve ever heard tbh. That man will be moving on to bigger things before too long…..







Click to expand...

Its an interesting progression so far - New York City, Nice and Palace. Where do you think he'll go next? Another PL side?


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## Fade and Die (Jan 1, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Its an interesting progression so far - New York City, Nice and Palace. Where do you think he'll go next? Another PL side?
		
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I reckon he would be a perfect fit for Arsenal. But maybe City might take a chance on him when Pep goes?


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I reckon he would be a perfect fit for Arsenal. But maybe City might take a chance on him when Pep goes?
		
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they can have arteta back and well have viera, everyones happy


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## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I reckon he would be a perfect fit for Arsenal. But maybe City might take a chance on him when Pep goes?
		
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He was at Citys acadamy and was very highly rated. I believe he went from there to New York City FC. One of the sister clubs. Again he was rated.


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## chrisd (Jan 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			hopefully the legend comes home to North London 

Click to expand...

Keep your flippin hands off!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2022)

Just seen the challenge by Ederson - how did they not give that as a penalty 

City certainly getting the breaks at the moment


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just seen the challenge by Ederson - how did they not give that as a penalty

City certainly getting the breaks at the moment
		
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wasnt a clear and obvious error, unlike bernardos dive an hour later


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			wasnt a clear and obvious error, unlike bernardos dive an hour later 

Click to expand...

Yep just seen that as well 

Was it given ?


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep just seen that as well

Was it given ?







Click to expand...


Attwell was ordered to the screen then rather than being allowed to make his own mind up was told to look at the tug on Bernardos shirt lol

The inconsistency between decisions is beyond ridiculous week after week

All anyone wants is clear guidance and consistent decsions based on it, sadly not coming to a tv screen anytime soon lol


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## BiMGuy (Jan 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just seen the challenge by Ederson - how did they not give that as a penalty

City certainly getting the breaks at the moment
		
Click to expand...

Because the Arsenal player stood on Ederson!


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## BrianM (Jan 1, 2022)

On a betting point of view, who’s missing for Liverpool 😬😬


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2022)

BrianM said:



			On a betting point of view, who’s missing for Liverpool 😬😬
		
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Klopps tested positive and claimed they had 3 other positive tests in the group but wouldnt say who earlier, not sure if been any news since


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## Swingalot (Jan 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Just heard Vieira’s post match interview. One of the best I’ve ever heard tbh. That man will be moving on to bigger things before too long…..







Click to expand...

Bigger things....is that possible ?


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Bigger things....is that possible ?
		
Click to expand...

Well Moyes is getting on and we are massive apparently lol

Edit didn't realise he was only 58.. had him down as much older sorry Dave


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## Swingalot (Jan 1, 2022)

Back from the game and it was a great game. 2 teams trying to score for 90 plus minutes. How we managed to get nothing from it I'm not sure but a good day at Selhurst despite the result. What PV and the owners have done with our squad in such a small timescale is nothing short of brilliant. We've completely changed our style and for the better!


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## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Back from the game and it was a great game. 2 teams trying to score for 90 plus minutes. How we managed to get nothing from it I'm not sure but a good day at Selhurst despite the result. What PV and the owners have done with our squad in such a small timescale is nothing short of brilliant. We've completely changed our style and for the better!
		
Click to expand...

Bar and post were our friends 

In reality that post shot was awful. Poor strike 

Bar was so unlucky another inch and that's off bar and in 

Plus fabainski had a great game


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Plus fabainski had a great game
		
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Apart from the second goal 😳. He has to lose a few marks for just watching that one go in.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just seen the challenge by Ederson - how did they not give that as a penalty

City certainly getting the breaks at the moment
		
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 Just seen it on motd crazy how that’s not a penalty what’s going on.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 1, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Just seen it on motd crazy how that’s not a penalty what’s going on.
		
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Walton explained it on BT by saying VAR is not used to check very small details, such as this. Which was surprising, as I'd have thought the detail of Ederson playing the attacker's foot first was a fairly significant factor.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2022)

Are we really surprised Riley’s minions are defending how it’s being used?

“Ref  Watch“ on Monday morning will be hilarious watching Gallagher try and explain why they got it right.

Im all for shirt pulling being clamped down on but we all know it’ll continue under the noses of refs at corners and they’ll just ignore it. That’s were the inconsistency of decisions across the league boils my piss.


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## Foxholer (Jan 2, 2022)

fundy said:



_Attwell was ordered to the screen then rather than being allowed to make his own mind up was told to look at the tug on Bernardos shirt lol_

The inconsistency between decisions is beyond ridiculous week after week

*All anyone wants is clear guidance and consistent decsions based on it*, sadly not coming to a tv screen anytime soon lol
		
Click to expand...

Re the bold bit...They have it!
Here's the protool...https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/video-assistant-referee-var-protocol/#procedures
The important bits re the game in question, at least in my belief, is as follows
.
.
3. The original decision given by the referee will not be changed unless the video review clearly shows that the decision was a 'clear and obvious error'.
4. Only the referee can initiate a ‘review’; the VAR (and other match officials) can only recommend a ‘review’ to the referee.
5. The final decision is always taken by the referee, either based on information from the VAR or after the referee has undertaken an ‘on-field review’ (OFR).
.
.
So, in the one case, no 'clear and obvious error'. While, in the other, there was.

And...Your first statement, italicised above, is simply wrong!


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## Rlburnside (Jan 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Walton explained it on BT by saying VAR is not used to check very small details, such as this. Which was surprising, as I'd have thought the detail of Ederson playing the attacker's foot first was a fairly significant factor.
		
Click to expand...

If that’s the case it seems wrong to me, it’s not a small detail to most fans. 

Var is a good thing if only the people setting the parameters and the ones implementing it we’re doing a better job. 

Still good seeing Arsenal loose though😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2022)

Here’s a really good thread from before Christmas explaining why the PGMOL and PL have got themselves in such a mess with VAR this season (High Bar).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472963741784457223


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## Crazyface (Jan 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Walton explained it on BT by saying VAR is not used to check very small details, such as this. Which was surprising, as I'd have thought the detail of Ederson playing the attacker's foot first was a fairly significant factor.
		
Click to expand...

I don't contribute on here but after listening to my grandsons rant about this yesterday it seems to me the use of VAR  has been botched. That in itself does not surprise me.


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 2, 2022)

Lukaku apparently dropped for today’s game after the interview released by Sky on Thursday. Whilst the manager is free to impose whatever discipline he sees fit, it seems a strange time to do it when he has been complaining about the issues in the squad with injuries and COVID. 

And nice timing by Sky, considering the interview is a few weeks old…


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## Hobbit (Jan 2, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Lukaku apparently dropped for today’s game after the interview released by Sky on Thursday. Whilst the manager is free to impose whatever discipline he sees fit, it seems a strange time to do it when he has been complaining about the issues in the squad with injuries and COVID.

And nice timing by Sky, considering the interview is a few weeks old…
		
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Maybe the Sky producer is a Liverpool fan, and the timing is deliberate. Maybe Lukaku’s agent knows the Sky producer and is pushing for a sale during the January window.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477607416053309440
It amazes me that people like this get to a level of power


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## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe the Sky producer is a Liverpool fan, and the timing is deliberate. Maybe Lukaku’s agent knows the Sky producer and is pushing for a sale during the January window.
		
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Loads of posibilities and as we know, these media outlets keep hold  of stuff and release when they know theyll get the most exposure. 

Dropping Lukaku for the Brighton game doesnt get the same attention as it does for Liverpool,City, spurs.....

The sports dept of the mainstream media used to be ran differently to the front page hacks, there was a lot more integrity about. Its a shame really.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477607416053309440
It amazes me that people like this get to a level of power
		
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Divvies like him dont understand. 

For example, i was in the upper main stand last week v Leicester in the cup and when the equaliser went in there was carnage in front of me. Grown men falling forward  4 rows.  This rail seating reduces it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Divvies like him dont understand.

For example, i was in the upper main stand last week v Leicester in the cup and when the equaliser went in there was carnage in front of me. Grown men falling forward  4 rows.  This rail seating reduces it.
		
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I never realised that standing up increases your chances of taking cocaine and shouting hatred and bigotry at players


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Lukaku apparently dropped for today’s game after the interview released by Sky on Thursday. Whilst the manager is free to impose whatever discipline he sees fit, it seems a strange time to do it when he has been complaining about the issues in the squad with injuries and COVID.

And nice timing by Sky, considering the interview is a few weeks old…
		
Click to expand...

Many thought it odd when United offloaded Lukaku to Inter. Sure, the guy had the first touch of an elephant, but he scored goals. Something every side needs. But at the same time there were still huge rumours that he was a disruptive influence in the dressing room and at Carrington. It seems as though Chelsea are now seeing why United cut their losses.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I never realised that standing up increases your chances of taking cocaine and shouting hatred and bigotry at players
		
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Obviously you telly clappers wouldnt know😉


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2022)

Hobbit said:



*Maybe the Sky producer is a Liverpool fan*, and the timing is deliberate. Maybe Lukaku’s agent knows the Sky producer and is pushing for a sale during the January window.
		
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I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised, I'm sure most of the presenters are.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised, I'm sure most of the presenters are.
		
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😂😂😂 🎻


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 2, 2022)




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## IanM (Jan 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477607416053309440
It amazes me that people like this get to a level of power
		
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You have to exhibit a range of criteria if you want to rise in the ranks these days..


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## IanM (Jan 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I never realised that standing up increases your chances of taking cocaine and shouting hatred and bigotry at players
		
Click to expand...

They might be onto something.  Hitler was stood up during all his rants.  If only  someone had offered him a seat, WW2 might have been avoided!


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2022)

Trezeguet has just been shot in the face, this'll run and run.
He should be retrospectively banned for at least six games ............................... assuming he pulls through!
Thoughts are with him, his family and his friends in these tough times.


The absolute fraud.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 2, 2022)

Trezeguet, Villa, your team are 2 nil down, minutes to go, you skin two players, you are in the penalty area with no one around and you throw yourself down on the floor 😡. Shameful. Should have been booked. I hope his team mates rip him for it.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2022)

Now, where can I find a blue shirt?


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## adam6177 (Jan 2, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Trezeguet, Villa, your team are 2 nil down, minutes to go, you skin two players, you are in the penalty area with no one around and you throw yourself down on the floor 😡. Shameful. Should have been booked. I hope his team mates rip him for it.
		
Click to expand...

With that kind of performance he'll get signed up for spurs in this transfer window. It's exactly what they love to see.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 2, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			With that kind of performance he'll get signed up for spurs in this transfer window. It's exactly what they love to see.
		
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Will he fill a Lamela sized hole? 😄


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

Benitez has turned Everton into a Welsh village:

LLWDLLLLDLLLWLDL-gogogoch 😁


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## fundy (Jan 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			Trezeguet has just been shot in the face, this'll run and run.
He should be retrospectively banned for at least six games ............................... assuming he pulls through!
Thoughts are with him, his family and his friends in these tough times.


The absolute fraud.
		
Click to expand...


Its events like these that prove the powers in charge genuinely dont care

Charge him with bringing the game into disrepute and a long ban. Could charge 10+ others at the time too


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## Jimaroid (Jan 2, 2022)

We’re just embarrassing.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its events like these that prove the powers in charge genuinely dont care

Charge him with bringing the game into disrepute and a long ban. Could charge 10+ others at the time too 

Click to expand...

The ref saw it and didn't give a penalty. Surely, as he didn't see it as a foul, and the player clearly theatrically dived to ground, he just have given a yellow?


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477607416053309440
It amazes me that people like this get to a level of power
		
Click to expand...

Easier to engage in racist chanting if you’re standing? Easier to sneak in alcohol if you’re standing? Easier to snort a line of cocaine if you’re standing? What planet is this fella on, because it certainly isn’t Earth? I’m capable of shouting at a referee that he’s crap at his job whether I’m sitting or standing! And the content of my pockets as I pass through a turnstile has nothing to do with how I’m positioned when watching a match. What utter codswallop.

It seems pretty clear, Phil, that this man does not understand football. I don’t know him, but I do hope he isn’t an NPCC lead on policing football matches.


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## Dando (Jan 2, 2022)

Can someone play the Benny hill theme tune for this game


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

Dando said:



			Can someone play the Benny hill theme tune for this game
		
Click to expand...

It’s a bit mental so far - 100mph , going to be a red that’s for sure


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2022)

I am certain had Ronaldo made the same challenge as Mane, a certain few would be demanding a red card.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2022)

Very sly elbow from Mane, Lucky imo the game was so young or that would have been looked at and could have been a red


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

Pure class - all about his body movement selling the players


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## fundy (Jan 2, 2022)

Take a bow Kovacic, some goal that

Do one VAR


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## BrianM (Jan 2, 2022)

What a hit 😳


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

Well that’s a pretty decent goal 👏👏👏


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## BiMGuy (Jan 2, 2022)

Decent finish!


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2022)

Why was VAR taking so long to even check that Chelsea goal!? Embarassing


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## fundy (Jan 2, 2022)

Taylor needs to get a grip of this game, gonna be a fun 2nd half


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

Great finish but Gary Neville you’re embarrassing yourself with your squealling


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2022)

Such a boring game....


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2022)

Wow. Thats's some 2 minutes. Game on


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2022)

Didn’t see this scoreline 15 minutes ago. What a turnaround.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Great finish but Gary Neville you’re embarrassing yourself with your squealling
		
Click to expand...

It was OK when he was squealing about Liverpool's goals. But, you find reason to moan when he squeals for Chelsea's goals


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 2, 2022)

I think the half time team talks might have changed a tad there. Saying that, it's been like basketball for the last 10 minutes so the managers will want to calm everyone down a bit. Quality finishes.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2022)

The sniper has moved to Stamford Bridge now ..................................... good work.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 2, 2022)

Was that squeal from Konate or Gary Neville?


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 2, 2022)

And the fact that he lifted his head and looked up at the ref and then went back to holding his face makes me think he's not that badly hurt.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 2, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Was that squeal from Konate or Gary Neville?
		
Click to expand...

Either was embarrassing.

Liverpool time wasting for a point?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

Heck of a game - some quality and prob the right result which prob hands the title to City though


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## greenone (Jan 2, 2022)

Jota was poor again, not good news with Bobby out and mane and Salah off to Senegal.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2022)

greenone said:



			Jota was poor again, *not good news *with Bobby out and mane and Salah off to Senegal.
		
Click to expand...

Not good news for who?


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 2, 2022)

Just seen the Mane elbow; how is that not a red card?


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2022)

Carragher making himself look remarkably stupid.
It's one of the clearest reds this, or any other, season.


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## IanM (Jan 2, 2022)

Chelsea Liverpool entertaining for the neutral... 

Mind you,  Aldershot winning at Woking tops it


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## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Just seen the Mane elbow; how is that not a red card?
		
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Its an orange card according to that shocking shower of crap that is Jamie Carragher. Talk about Rose tinted. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2022)

IanM said:



			Chelsea Liverpool entertaining for the neutral...

Mind you,  Aldershot winning at Woking tops it

Click to expand...


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## BrianM (Jan 2, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Just seen the Mane elbow; how is that not a red card?
		
Click to expand...

100% a red, it’s a shocker.
VAR should be reviewing that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Its an orange card according to that shocking shower of crap that is Jamie Carragher. Talk about Rose tinted. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
		
Click to expand...

Neville said it wasn’t a red card as well - does he have rose tints on as well 🙄

It’s one of those that if the ref gave it then it wouldn’t have been over turned 

Mane jumped wasn’t looking at the player and didn’t swing his arm back. 

If it’s given then there isn’t complaints 

Same with the Pulisic tackle 

But the ref wasn’t the issue today - it was a great game


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2022)

Should have been a red for Mane. I think had that been 5-10 minutes in rather than the first few seconds it would have definitely be reviewed and given, Great result for City and I can't see anything other than them winning the PL from here


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## 4LEX (Jan 2, 2022)

That was a clear red but I understand Carragher's view that it wasn't an elbow but more his wrist. However still miles off the ball and dangerous. If that was after 20 minutes it's a red - the ref bottled it as it was so early in the game. Good match but tainted by that decision.

Three great goals, loved Salah's faint and burst of pace then the composure.


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 2, 2022)

Well according to Henderson on the BBC website it was disappointing that Mane got a yellow… 🙄

Makes Carragher look almost sensible 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Foxholer (Jan 2, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			We’ll according to Henderson on the BBC website it was disappointing that Mane got a yellow… 🙄
...
		
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Apparently, many others were 'disappointed' too!


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## pauljames87 (Jan 2, 2022)

Best result 👍

Not only does it help city it also is the one perfect score in prediction league that I've had in blooming weeks


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I am certain had Ronaldo made the same challenge as Mane, a certain few would be demanding a red card.
		
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And rightly so.
He’s a very lucky boy there imo.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			And rightly so.
He’s a very lucky boy there imo.
		
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Indeed. Doesn't matter (or shouldn't) which player it is. It is a red card offence and should have been punished as such


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## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2022)

VAR has explained why Mane was not sent off.

Quote.
VAR's explanation to Sky was that it was "reckless, not violent".
I am lost for words.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			VAR has explained why Mane was not sent off.

Quote.
*VAR's explanation to Sky was that it was "reckless, not violent"*.
I am lost for words.
		
Click to expand...

I hope none of them are subject to 'reckless' behaviour on their way home!
It was an assault, simple as.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			VAR has explained why Mane was not sent off.

Quote.
VAR's explanation to Sky was that it was "reckless, not violent".
I am lost for words.
		
Click to expand...

Violence means intent. So, are VAR now saying reckless and dangerous is acceptable, as long as it is not violent? The officials just make things up as they go along.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			VAR has explained why Mane was not sent off.

Quote.
VAR's explanation to Sky was that it was "reckless, not violent".
I am lost for words.
		
Click to expand...

VAR will be on Spitting Image soon.
So Reckless is ok then.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Violence means intent. So, are VAR now saying reckless and dangerous is acceptable, as long as it is not violent? The officials just make things up as they go along.
		
Click to expand...

Yes once you start doing that you can’t stop.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			VAR has explained why Mane was not sent off.

Quote.
VAR's explanation to Sky was that it was "reckless, not violent".
I am lost for words.
		
Click to expand...

You can't make that up. Surely they've already given red cards via VAR for reckless already so why is it now acceptable


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## 3offTheTee (Jan 2, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Should have been a red for Mane. I think had that been 5-10 minutes in rather than the first few seconds it would have definitely be reviewed and given, Great result for City and I can't see anything other than them winning the PL from here
		
Click to expand...

I don‘t understand similar comments to this Homer. If it is a foul after 6 seconds  OR 60 minutes it IS a foul. Why the leeway? Same with a first tcckle. There is no difference and no 2nd chance 

A foul is a foul is a foul and I am not just referring to today. You more knowledgeable gents on here please explain they get a 2nd chance or what about a 3rd.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			I don‘t understand similar comments to this Homer. If it is a foul after 6 seconds  OR 60 minutes it IS a foul. Why the leeway? Same with a first tcckle. There is no difference and no 2nd chance

A foul is a foul is a foul and I am not just referring to today. You more knowledgeable gents on here please explain they get a 2nd chance or what about a 3rd.
		
Click to expand...

I agree totally. A foul, and certainly one of the nature of Mane's is a foul (and worthy of a red card) whenever it happens. I just feel that six seconds in most referees will shy away from showing red and I don't think VAR would want to get involved. Perhaps there is an element of not wanting to spoil the contest so early on and to me that is the officials not doing their job effectively. I think had that been as little of five minutes in then the decision may have been different. Not condoning it. Just seems how referees seem to manage the games now


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2022)

I assume if any player who gets a red card just before jetting off to the African Nations would not need to worry about being suspended for the following games? If so, they could pretty much get away with a nasty challenge at the end of the game


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## 4LEX (Jan 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I assume if any player who gets a red card just before jetting off to the African Nations would not need to worry about being suspended for the following games? If so, they could pretty much get away with a nasty challenge at the end of the game
		
Click to expand...

Good job Roy Keane wasn't African


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I assume if any player who gets a red card just before jetting off to the African Nations would not need to worry about being suspended for the following games? If so, they could pretty much get away with a nasty challenge at the end of the game
		
Click to expand...

Surely you’re not suggesting anything are you ?


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## pauljames87 (Jan 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I assume if any player who gets a red card just before jetting off to the African Nations would not need to worry about being suspended for the following games? If so, they could pretty much get away with a nasty challenge at the end of the game
		
Click to expand...

I don't even know how it works .. I doubt he would do on purpose but if a player is unavailable due to international duties surely the ban would carry over


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 2, 2022)

Sadio should have seen red.


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## 4LEX (Jan 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't even know how it works .. I doubt he would do on purpose but if a player is unavailable due to international duties surely the ban would carry over
		
Click to expand...

Nah the ban would start straight away and cover FA Cup, League Cup and league games.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely you’re not suggesting anything are you ?
		
Click to expand...

Think he was just asking a question Phil🤷‍♂️
Why don’t you Google it & give him the answer 😜


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 2, 2022)

They should have a goal of the month just from today's games, I think every team has had at least one beauty.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely you’re not suggesting anything are you ?
		
Click to expand...

Not suggesting anything, if you think I am referring to Mane. It would be idiotic to put in a reckless challenge after 6 seconds of a game, his team would be punished by being down to 10 men for virtually all the game.

It was just a general thought. Entering the last few mins of a bad tempered game. Maybe the result is already decided. A player, about to play in African Nations sees the red mist. They really could be as violent as they like, knowing their suspension means nothing (if it covers the games they'd miss anyway). Unless there is a  condition that the suspension doesn't run while a player is officially away on international duty


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			I don‘t understand similar comments to this Homer. If it is a foul after 6 seconds  OR 60 minutes it IS a foul. Why the leeway? Same with a first tcckle. There is no difference and no 2nd chance

A foul is a foul is a foul and I am not just referring to today. You more knowledgeable gents on here please explain they get a 2nd chance or what about a 3rd.
		
Click to expand...

A ref once told me players are usually given a little leeway with tackles in the first ten mins while they properly warm up and get the speed of the game.
You often hear “ the sub is not up to speed yet” when someone comes on.
How true this is , is anyones guess.
But the Mane foul was dangerous.
I would also say Mount should have gone as well ! You can’t kick out at players on the ground like that!


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			They should have a goal of the month just from today's games, I think every team has had at least one beauty.
		
Click to expand...

Never seen the match live ( golf)
But we never had anyone in the D for the first goal , I wonder why.
Mo is usually given that job, might have stopped the goal.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2022)

Mane red card 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

It was just about a foul. No intent to elbow the man, jumping for the ball, Azpilcueta should be booked for simulation..... 

James milner needs shafting good and proper. He's let the team down by giving the ref the oppurtunity to give a cheap freekick even though the  ball has long gone, good dive from Havertz though. Poor. 

Kovacic wont hit a luckier shot in another 100 times.

Great equaliser though.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sadio should have seen red.
		
Click to expand...

Pandering to the masses. Stop it.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Never seen the match live ( golf)
But we never had anyone in the D for the first goal , I wonder why.
Mo is usually given that job, might have stopped the goal.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			A ref once told me players are usually given a little leeway with tackles in the first ten mins while they properly warm up and get the speed of the game.
You often hear “ the sub is not up to speed yet” when someone comes on.
How true this is , is anyones guess.
But the Mane foul was dangerous.
I would also say Mount should have gone as well ! You can’t kick out at players on the ground like that!
		
Click to expand...


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣bollocks.

Does anybody believe a word this clown says???

Stick to justifying touting tickets


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't even know how it works .. I doubt he would do on purpose but if a player is unavailable due to international duties surely the ban would carry over
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be easier to check rules before making comment?


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## pauljames87 (Jan 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Wouldn't it be easier to check rules before making comment?
		
Click to expand...

Sometimes no as finding the answer  for that would take a fair bit of time and I was busy


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## Swango1980 (Jan 3, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			A ref once told me players are usually given a little leeway with tackles in the first ten mins while they properly warm up and get the speed of the game.
You often hear “ the sub is not up to speed yet” when someone comes on.
How true this is , is anyones guess.
But the Mane foul was dangerous.
I would also say Mount should have gone as well ! You can’t kick out at players on the ground like that!
		
Click to expand...

Did Mount really kick out? If so, football really has become a game for snowflakes. His shin slightly brushed against his opponent as he stood up, almost like a gentle push with his leg if anything. It wasn't exactly Roy Keane on Gareth Southgate.


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## Foxholer (Jan 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Violence means intent.* So, are VAR now saying reckless and dangerous is acceptable, as long as it is not violent?* The officials just make things up as they go along.
		
Click to expand...

They are simply following The Laws and Rules, which state...

Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
 It's obviously a matter of opinion in each instance as to which of the above applies though.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 3, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			They are simply following The Laws and Rules, which state...

Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
It's obviously a matter of opinion in each instance as to which of the above applies though.
		
Click to expand...

So, if VAR did actually say the challenge was not "violent", where is the word "violent" used in the laws? Surely they should have said there was no excessive force? If course, if they did that, they'd look silly as it was pretty clear it was very much excessive


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## Foxholer (Jan 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			So, if VAR did actually say the challenge was not "violent", where is the word "violent" used in the laws? Surely they should have said there was no excessive force? If course, if they did that, they'd look silly as it was pretty clear it was very much excessive
		
Click to expand...

Check it out here...https://www.thefa.com/football-rule.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 3, 2022)

Looks like Stu La was on the sauce last night 😬😳


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 3, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looks like Stu La was on the sauce last night 😬😳
		
Click to expand...

Along with a lot of Chelsea fans I imagine, probably drowning their sorrows at the end of their title challenge for another year.

I'm sure Arsenal fans did the same back in August and Man Utd fans in September.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Along with a lot of Chelsea fans I imagine, probably drowning their sorrows at the end of their title challenge for another year.

I'm sure Arsenal fans did the same back in August and Man Utd fans in September. 

Click to expand...

Not conceding anything yet, leave that for the telly clappers and internet diehards. 

Did yerniteds title challenge make  september?😁😁


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mane red card 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

*It was just about a foul. No intent to elbow the man, jumping for the ball*, Azpilcueta should be booked for simulation.....

James milner needs shafting good and proper. He's let the team down by giving the ref the oppurtunity to give a cheap freekick even though the  ball has long gone, good dive from Havertz though. Poor.

Kovacic wont hit a luckier shot in another 100 times.

Great equaliser though.
		
Click to expand...

He leads with his arm and there was no intent. 😳 I know it’s early in the year but it’s the funniest thing Ave read on the forum this year. Am giving you the benefit of the doubt and putting that down to beer talk.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He leads with his arm and there was no intent. 😳 I know it’s early in the year but it’s the funniest thing Ave read on the forum this year. Am giving you the benefit of the doubt and putting that down to beer talk.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks Tashy means a lot coming from you🤩

I will respectfully disagree with you and stand by my previous comment.

My NY's resoloution is not to argue the toss with know all internet fotball managers, coaches, physio, doctors and referees 😉


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Thanks Tashy means a lot coming from you🤩

I will respectfully disagree with ypuand stand by my previous comment.

My NY's resoloution is not to argue the toss with know all internet fotball managers, coaches, physio, doctors and referees 😉
		
Click to expand...

You won’t be arguing with me, it will be discusion 👍 happy new year Stu.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Not conceding anything yet, leave that for the telly clappers and internet diehards.

*Did yerniteds title challenge make  september?*😁😁
		
Click to expand...

They actually started better than I thought they had. 7 points from 9 in August and 6 from 9 in September. 

They were level with Man City at the end of Sept who were 6 from 9 in Aug and 7 from 9 in Sept and Chelsea 7 from 9 and 6 from 9. And only a point behind Liverpool who were 7 from 9 in Aug and Sept.

Admittedly they hadn't actually played anyone decent by that point (sorry West Ham fans) but they were still in it. It was only after that they started to play the decent teams and kept getting humped.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			They actually started better than I thought they had. 7 points from 9 in August and 6 from 9 in September.

They were level with Man City at the end of Sept who were 6 from 9 in Aug and 7 from 9 in Sept and Chelsea 7 from 9 and 6 from 9. And only a point behind Liverpool who were 7 from 9 in Aug and Sept.

Admittedly they hadn't actually played anyone decent by that point (sorry West Ham fans) but they were still in it. It was only after that they started to play the decent teams and kept getting humped.
		
Click to expand...

My memory of yernited this season was 30 thousand fans leaving OT at half time and us putting 5 past them😃😃


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## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sadio should have seen red.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed
Nobody should be on the receiving end of a challenge like that whoever team player it is.
It’s a cowardly challenge.
Great game for the neutral and the premiership.
I do think both teams challenge has now gone.


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## chrisd (Jan 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mane red card 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

It was just about a foul. No intent to elbow the man, jumping for the ball, Azpilcueta should be booked for simulation.....

.
		
Click to expand...

As a neutral I take the same view about the foul, he didn't lead with the elbow but he was lucky to stay on as many a ref would given it. Don't agree about a booking for the Chelsea player, I dont think he was any near as hurt as he made out but not a booking imo.


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## chrisd (Jan 3, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would also say Mount should have gone as well ! You can’t kick out at players on the ground like that!
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure you were watching the same game as us??


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## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2022)

Makes some of your posts worse then.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Pandering to the masses. Stop it.
		
Click to expand...

I've never pandered to the masses, you're just talking crap.


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## Hobbit (Jan 3, 2022)

Keepers often jump with a knee out to discourage opposition players from jumping into them. To me, Mane jumps with his arm out. Red card? No. Yellow card? The ref said yes, but I’m not sure it warranted even a yellow.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2022)

Rumours are that Phil Jones will be starting tonight.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2022)

Just been confirmed.


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## SteveW86 (Jan 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Rumours are that Phil Jones will be starting tonight. 

Click to expand...

No rumours about it


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Rumours are that Phil Jones will be starting tonight. 

Click to expand...

What channel is the game on. Comedy Channel 😳. his first appearance since Jan 2020


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## pauljames87 (Jan 3, 2022)

the way maigure has been playing it could be a massive upgrade


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			the way maigure has been playing it could be a massive upgrade
		
Click to expand...

Maguire and Jones at centre half. Could be the new Bruce and Pallister 😳


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## pauljames87 (Jan 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Maguire and Jones at centre half. Could be the new Bruce and Pallister 😳
		
Click to expand...





more likely


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Keepers often jump with a knee out to discourage opposition players from jumping into them. To me, Mane jumps with his arm out. Red card? No. Yellow card? The ref said yes, but I’m not sure it warranted even a yellow.
		
Click to expand...

Think that sums it up for me 

It will all come down to intent

Was there any intent there - imo because he didn’t swing his arm back then it’s not a violent deliberate act that would mean a red card 

so it’s a ref interpretation and thats imo why they didn’t send the ref to the monitor etc 

If he had been given the red then I don’t think VAR would have changed it as well


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## Swango1980 (Jan 3, 2022)

I think United have rested Jones to make sure he is fit for this game. He should be absolutely astounding given the rest he has had. I predict Man of the Match.

Anyone have him in their fantasy team? Make him captain


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2022)

Will be interesting to see Jones tonight. I fear a rabbit in the headlights and think Wolves will target him and with this terrible 4-2-2-2 system think Wolves could have a good night tonight. It will make United very dependent on the front two and if they go behind think it'll be a long night for them


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## Jensen (Jan 3, 2022)

Phil Jones earns £75k per week, that’s £3.9m per year. Hasn’t started in the first team for almost 2 years. Bloody hell, I wish I could find work like that….


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 3, 2022)

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12507907/should-mane-have-seen-red

He clearly loads the arm and doesn't quite time it, but that with bodyweight behind it is more than enough for a sending off.  If you're using your arms to jump they go up & down, not out to the side.


----------



## Slime (Jan 3, 2022)

I wonder what price you can get on Phil Jones getting injured in the warm up?
Probably about evens, I'd have thought.


----------



## Hobbit (Jan 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			I wonder what price you can get on Phil Jones getting injured in the warm up?
Probably about evens, I'd have thought.
		
Click to expand...

Jonny Evens?

Coat… got… left…


----------



## IanM (Jan 3, 2022)

Wolves giving Utd a bit if a run-around at the moment.


----------



## Slime (Jan 3, 2022)

Yup, United are being schooled at the moment. United's passing is just abysmal.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 3, 2022)

Blimey, Wan Bissaka just took on the defender AND put a cross in before. That's as rare as rocking horse poo.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Will be interesting to see Jones tonight. I fear a rabbit in the headlights and think Wolves will target him and with this terrible 4-2-2-2 system think Wolves could have a good night tonight. It will make United very dependent on the front two and if they go behind think it'll be a long night for them
		
Click to expand...

Can’t remember you ever getting a prediction right,so we are safe.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2022)

Phil Jones been uniteds best player


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Phil Jones been uniteds best player 

Click to expand...

Bit of a dull mid table game


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2022)

Dale Johnson’s weekly VAR Thread discussing “the incidents”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478018300311482369


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Bit of a dull mid table game
		
Click to expand...


bit like the 2nd half in your game yesterday 

lets hope second half here is like yesterdays first lol


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2022)

Phil Jones has been remarkably good. But maybe Maguire has just been so bad for so long that, in comparison, Jones looks like a competent centre half.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t remember you ever getting a prediction right,so we are safe.
		
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Think you need to look at the prediction league a few weeks back and the record points haul


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2022)

Shocking miss


----------



## Captainron (Jan 3, 2022)

That sort of professional foul by Matic should be a straight red. 

“He took one for the team knowing he couldn’t catch Traore” was the commentators explaination. Utter BS


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t remember you ever getting a prediction right,so we are safe.
		
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You were saying?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2022)




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## fundy (Jan 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 40304

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aww, thought the little fella was hibernating


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## Captainron (Jan 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Maguire and Jones at centre half. Could be the new Bruce and Pallister 😳
		
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I reckon Bruce and Pallister right now are still better than those two


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2022)

Marcus Rashford? World class? My arse he is. Awful.


----------



## Captainron (Jan 3, 2022)

Bruno Fernandes has been poor for a while now. He was their big provider for ages and now he looks like he belongs at Spurs


----------



## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Bruno Fernandes has been poor for a while now. He was their big provider for ages and now he looks like he belongs at Spurs
		
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He’s surrounded by mediocrity which doesn’t help.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2022)

Well deserved from Wolves that, were the better team all game, well they were the only "team" tbh


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2022)

Captainron said:



			I reckon Bruce and Pallister right now are still better than those two
		
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Think Buchan and McQueen could still get a game


----------



## Slime (Jan 3, 2022)

What an absolute crock of crap.


----------



## adam6177 (Jan 3, 2022)

What a fantastic result, a result the whole country was hoping for X


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## IanM (Jan 3, 2022)

Too many individuals in Red Shirts... when does this new mega-manager start work?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 3, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			What a fantastic result, a result the whole country was hoping for X
		
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Im only glad as I have £50 bet with my friend that we will finish above them ... this was when ole was at the wheel tho


----------



## Swango1980 (Jan 3, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Marcus Rashford? World class? My arse he is. Awful.
		
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Agreed. 

Utd have players who can't pass a ball, nor receive a pass. Not sure how many times I saw a player in possession with no easy pass on for them. And, all it would have taken is a team mate to take 2 steps left or right to be in loads of space for a pass. Matic seemed to just hide behind opponents, making it impossible to get a pass. Utd players are just hiding, or making stupid runs, hoping for the Hollywood pass.

Only positive is bizarrely Jones had a good game. Unfortunate his header found a Wolves player outside the box, but always get frustrated when the opposition have players free just outside the box, with no Utd players near them


----------



## Dando (Jan 3, 2022)

The glaziers have been on the phone


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 3, 2022)

Tactically I don't think you can get any worse than what Rangnick has served up at Utd so far. He's managed to make Ole look like prime Pep. It makes no sense on any level in terms of formation, selections and subs. He's a busted flush, hence why he was at a third rate Russian club. Incredible Utd have managed to find someone even more clueless than Ole.

Credit to Phil Jones, ridiculed for years but put on the best individual defensive performance Utd have had all season. 

Bruno getting too much hate, the difference he made when he came on was night and day. Quick passes, early crosses and unlucky not to score two goals.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think you need to look at the prediction league a few weeks back and the record points haul
		
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That’s true
However I did congratulate u but u never acknowledged


----------



## adam6177 (Jan 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Im only glad as I have £50 bet with my friend that we will finish above them ... this was when ole was at the wheel tho
		
Click to expand...

The week after man utd re-signed Ronaldo I was at a BBQ and the host (a man utd fan) said to me that for the premier League this year he expected it to go close with city and United for the title, Chelsea to finish 3rd and Liverpool and arsenal to be "scrapping" for 4th.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2022)

Rangnick can absolutely do one upstairs quickly if at all,totally out of his depth.
Sancho is frozen in the headlights he’s just scared to go forward and express himself.
Just miles away from playing as a team and Greenwood shows that,just mindless at times.
Pleased for Jones as 2 years out is just mental torture.


----------



## Baldy Bouncer (Jan 3, 2022)




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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			The week after man utd re-signed Ronaldo I was at a BBQ and the host (a man utd fan) said to me that for the premier League this year he expected it to go close with city and United for the title, Chelsea to finish 3rd and Liverpool and arsenal to be "scrapping" for 4th.
		
Click to expand...

I said at the time, the romantic in me was delighted to see him back, but I questioned the logic of his signing. I still question it.

For all his qualities and the goals he has scored, especially in Europe, Ronaldo is merely papering over the cracks and putting any progress on hold. And far from bringing on the younger players around him, his presence seems to be holding them back.

I can make no bigger criticism than saying United no longer excite me. Haven’t done for years. This season I struggle to think of a single game where I have reached the final whistle having enjoyed watching. 

An average side, packed with average players, playing dull football.


----------



## Swango1980 (Jan 3, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I said at the time, the romantic in me was delighted to see him back, but I questioned the logic of his signing. I still question it.

For all his qualities and the goals he has scored, especially in Europe, Ronaldo is merely papering over the cracks and putting any progress on hold. And far from bringing on the younger players around him, his presence seems to be holding them back.

I can make no bigger criticism than saying United no longer excite me. Haven’t done for years. This season I struggle to think of a single game where I have reached the final whistle having enjoyed watching.

An average side, packed with average players, playing dull football.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I always look forward to playing Leeds. Otherwise we are just shocking.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2022)

Surely it’s time for


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 3, 2022)

We've got to sell to buy apparently, I honestly think we're about 2 players short of really having a go at the top 6. 
If we don't back the manager now we never will. If only Moutinho was 5 years younger.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2022)




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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2022)

Once more I don’t blame, Wrecking Ralph or Ole or one or two others. There must be someone behind the scenes who is stealing a living pretending they know what they are doing hiring these below par managers.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Once more I don’t blame, Wrecking Ralph or Ole or one or two others. There must be someone behind the scenes who is stealing a living pretending they know what they are doing hiring these below par managers.
		
Click to expand...

Thing is given the impossible level of expectation the United job is a poisoned chalice and I can't see any of the top managers around wanting to touch it with a barge pole. That leaves knee jerk appointments or those managers with lesser reputations or CV's and usually a very limited time frame to try and get it right.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Tactically I don't think you can get any worse than what Rangnick has served up at Utd so far. He's managed to make Ole look like prime Pep. It makes no sense on any level in terms of formation, selections and subs. He's a busted flush, hence why he was at a third rate Russian club. Incredible Utd have managed to find someone even more clueless than Ole.

Credit to Phil Jones, ridiculed for years but put on the best individual defensive performance Utd have had all season.

Bruno getting too much hate, the difference he made when he came on was night and day. Quick passes, early crosses and unlucky not to score two goals.
		
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Conte was sat there free as a bird just waiting to be picked up - Spurs went bold and got him when a number would looking around and by the time they finally pulled the trigger on the bus driver the options were very thin

Also I hear Shaw in his interview alluded to the Ronaldo just not being the right fit


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 3, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			We've got to sell to buy apparently, I honestly think we're about 2 players short of really having a go at the top 6. 
If we don't back the manager now we never will. If only Moutinho was 5 years younger.
		
Click to expand...

You hold and pass the ball really nicely but you lack an edge up top. If you can get some level of ruthless upfront then you absolutely can push on. As you say, you are close 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Blimey, Wan Bissaka just took on the defender AND put a cross in before. That's as rare as rocking horse poo.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478075444859711489
🤔


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## 4LEX (Jan 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Conte was sat there free as a bird just waiting to be picked up - Spurs went bold and got him when a number would looking around and by the time they finally pulled the trigger on the bus driver the options were very thin

Also I hear Shaw in his interview alluded to the Ronaldo just not being the right fit
		
Click to expand...

Playing 442 which is what Utd did today in 2022 is hilarious. Especially when both strikers have no pace and a combined age of 70. Add in a midfield pair of Matic and McTominay who are bottom half quality. Throw in making most of your attacks via AWB who is the worst attacking full back in the league by a million miles. No touch, awful receiving position, head down, can't cross....


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## chrisd (Jan 3, 2022)

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the way Manure are playing - but then I'm a Palace fan 😁😁😁


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Playing 442 which is what Utd did today in 2022 is hilarious. Especially when both strikers have no pace and a combined age of 70. Add in a midfield pair of Matic and McTominay who are bottom half quality. Throw in making most of your attacks via AWB who is the worst attacking full back in the league by a million miles. No touch, awful receiving position, head down, can't cross....
		
Click to expand...

Wowzers, you really are a hater.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2022)

I was even tempted to take pokerjoke off ignore tonight, but he normally only posted from a position of strength. Wibble.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2022)




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## Swango1980 (Jan 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Conte was sat there free as a bird just waiting to be picked up - Spurs went bold and got him when a number would looking around and by the time they finally pulled the trigger on the bus driver the options were very thin

Also I hear Shaw in his interview alluded to the Ronaldo just not being the right fit
		
Click to expand...

Really? I never heard Ronaldo's name being mentioned, or him even being hinted at.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478075444859711489
🤔
		
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🤣🤣🤣 better than Trent though😉


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## 4LEX (Jan 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Wowzers, you really are a hater.
		
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Slime, please correct me on anything I've said. Everything is 100% spot on though.

Matic was a world class DM back in the day. McTominay is a decent box to box midfielder but would get nowhere near an elite side. He can't even make simple passes on a regular basis. These two were outplayed by Wolves midfield that included a 36 year old for perspective. This wasn't Man City or Bayern just a bog standard mid table side. Cavani has the right mentality but his fitness and legs have gone. His peak was 5 years ago at PSG and even then he was still a scatty finisher. Ronaldo is without doubt the best finisher in the league and the fittest 36 year that's ever played the game. But no good without service. AWB is an excellent defensive right back but using him as a main attacking outlet is crazy. Terrible management and it looks like the players have downed tools already.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Tactically I don't think you can get any worse than what Rangnick has served up at Utd so far. *He's managed to make Ole look like prime Pep.* It makes no sense on any level in terms of formation, selections and subs. *He's a busted flush*, hence why he was at a third rate Russian club. Incredible Utd have managed to find someone even more clueless than Ole.
		
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4LEX said:



*Playing 442 which is what Utd did today in 2022 is hilarious.* Especially when both strikers have no pace and a combined age of 70. Add in a midfield pair of Matic and *McTominay who are bottom half quality. *Throw in making most of your attacks via AWB who is the worst attacking full back in the league by a million miles. No touch, awful receiving position, head down, can't cross....
		
Click to expand...




4LEX said:



			Slime, please correct me on anything I've said. *Everything is 100% spot on though.*

Click to expand...

The bits in bold, in my humble opinion, are all incorrect.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			The bits in bold, in my humble opinion, are all incorrect.
		
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Sod you what about what our fury friend thinks??


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## Hobbit (Jan 4, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Slime, please correct me on anything I've said. Everything is 100% spot on though.

Matic was a world class DM back in the day. McTominay is a decent box to box midfielder but would get nowhere near an elite side. He can't even make simple passes on a regular basis. These two were outplayed by Wolves midfield that included a 36 year old for perspective. This wasn't Man City or Bayern just a bog standard mid table side. Cavani has the right mentality but his fitness and legs have gone. His peak was 5 years ago at PSG and even then he was still a scatty finisher. Ronaldo is without doubt the best finisher in the league and the fittest 36 year that's ever played the game. But no good without service. AWB is an excellent defensive right back but using him as a main attacking outlet is crazy. Terrible management and it looks like the players have downed tools already.
		
Click to expand...

In your opinion it’s 100% spot on.

The new manager has hardly got his feet under the table. He’s inherited a team that for months has lacked structure and direction, and you expect that to change overnight?

Utd, currently, don’t look like they’re competing for 4th. They don’t have the players for it, or they’re lacking a system they’re used to… yet. Currently, they’re competing for 5th and are 7th, 3 points off 5th. They’re 4 points off 4th (Arsenal) but not playing at that level…yet.

4-4-2? If it works, fine. However, it looked more like 4-2-2-2. A bit narrow, and conceded the wings to a team well capable of exploiting them. But maybe the players he had to choose from dictated the formation.

The next 4 months and, hopefully, a decent transfer window should see a difference but expecting to see it in 5 weeks is unrealistic at best.


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## Junior (Jan 4, 2022)

There's still some deep rooted problems in the Man U squad.  Outplayed over 90 minutes by Newcastle and now Wolves.  

I don't know what's worse, the fact I don't see light at the end of the tunnel (yet) or that I'm going to have to put up with  Liverpoolphils memes every week.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 4, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			In your opinion it’s 100% spot on.

The new manager has hardly got his feet under the table. He’s inherited a team that for months has lacked structure and direction, and you expect that to change overnight?

Utd, currently, don’t look like they’re competing for 4th. They don’t have the players for it, or they’re lacking a system they’re used to… yet. Currently, they’re competing for 5th and are 7th, 3 points off 5th. They’re 4 points off 4th (Arsenal) but not playing at that level…yet.

4-4-2? If it works, fine. However, it looked more like 4-2-2-2. A bit narrow, and conceded the wings to a team well capable of exploiting them. But maybe the players he had to choose from dictated the formation.

The next 4 months and, hopefully, a decent transfer window should see a difference but expecting to see it in 5 weeks is unrealistic at best.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I am not a fan of fans wanting a manager out after a few weeks. It is ridiculous. The very reason the manager has come in was because the team had been dire for quite some time. So, new guy comes in, and it seems some fans expect us to play like City, Liverpool and Chelsea straight away. 

The season was pretty much a write off when Rangnick came in. So, we have until the end of the season to see how he gets on, then we can reevaluate. One advantage, so far, is that we can remove the Ole excuse from the equation now. If Utd continue as they are now, it will be blindingly obvious a lot of the players are not up to it. It pretty much already is. Matic is well past it. We have inexperience on the wings, and players very very low on confidence. Rashford, to name one, really needs to pull his finger out rapidly. 

The mental coach that was brought in will have a very busy few months


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Sod you what about what our fury friend thinks??
		
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He's still not impressed.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			In your opinion it’s 100% spot on.

The new manager has hardly got his feet under the table. He’s inherited a team that for months has lacked structure and direction, and you expect that to change overnight?

Utd, currently, don’t look like they’re competing for 4th. They don’t have the players for it, or they’re lacking a system they’re used to… yet. Currently, they’re competing for 5th and are 7th, 3 points off 5th. They’re 4 points off 4th (Arsenal) but not playing at that level…yet.

4-4-2? If it works, fine. However, it looked more like 4-2-2-2. A bit narrow, and conceded the wings to a team well capable of exploiting them. But maybe the players he had to choose from dictated the formation.

The next 4 months and, hopefully, a decent transfer window should see a difference but expecting to see it in 5 weeks is unrealistic at best.
		
Click to expand...

When a new manager arrives you usually see an upward trajectory of results along with improved performamces of players and a few bumps along the way.

You're spot on about  expectations in 5 weeks.

I disagree with you when you say they dont have the squad to finish 4th, player for player i'd say they've got the 3rd best squad in the league.


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## Neilds (Jan 4, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Once more I don’t blame, Wrecking Ralph or Ole or one or two others. *There must be someone behind the scenes who is stealing a living pretending they know what they are doing hiring these below par managers.*

Click to expand...

Is Fergie still too involved?  No idea how much power he still has but it can't be easy for any manager coming in with his presence looming large over you.  It seems every where you look at Old Trafford you see him.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Is Fergie still too involved?  No idea how much power he still has but it can't be easy for any manager coming in with his presence looming large over you.  It seems every where you look at Old Trafford you see him.
		
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I really think fergie got his replacement right but needed more time to stamp his style 

Remember talking to United fans at the time and they wanted Moyes before it was even announced 

Rome wasn't built in a day and let's face it they have bearly won anything since fergie left . Leaving Moyes in charge with support and investment would have been better choice 

I'm glad they didn't tho ..


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## Junior (Jan 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			When a new manager arrives you usually see an upward trajectory of results along with improved performamces of players and a few bumps along the way.

You're spot on about  expectations in 5 weeks.

I disagree with you when you say they dont have the squad to finish 4th, player for player i'd say they've got the 3rd best squad in the league.
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree mate....on paper we have.  What then are the issues?  IMO Ronaldo, as good has he is has upset the balance of the side.  Pogba hasn't had his 10 games this season where he's that Rolls Royce of a player he can be (it's usually about the Jan transfer window that it kicks in).

Maybe get rid of both of them, play a younger more passionate 4-3-3 team.  

Greenwood/Cavani CF, Sancho right,  Rashford Left, Bruno, Lingaard, Mctominay, Shaw, Dalot, Varane, Bailly, DDG.  IMO this is a  team that plays for the badge not insta pictures. 

To play RR style from I've seen you need grafters and players willing to put in the hard yards.


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## Slime (Jan 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Sod you what about what *our fury friend *thinks??
		
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He and his mates are away right now, hopefully they'll be back for the Villa game.


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## pendodave (Jan 4, 2022)

Junior said:



			To play RR style from I've seen you need grafters and players willing to put in the hard yards.
		
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I'd argue it's been the key to success in the prem for the last 10 years at least. City and liverpool work really hard all the time. If 1 player doesn't, you just can't compete. 
As for yernighted players, I'd love then to be so cheesed off with Maguire that they'd give him to WHU for 40mil. I think he'd be great in a Moyes team.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 4, 2022)

Any manager that comes in and doesn’t play Lingard hasn’t watched the P/L for the last year.
Ousted by Ole to West Ham ,played superb for them.
Fred,Matic,VDB ,Bruno all who could be dropped and still no sign of Jesse.
I believe Ronaldo has effected one player more than others and that’s Bruno.
At this stage I would have Cavani as the 9 and have Ronaldo wide left until Sancho or Rashford show significant improvement.
Mason just needs someone to grab him and say get your bloody head up and look for your team mates.
Taking on 35 yard shots is just plain ridiculous.
RR is not the man for the job and I don’t see him manager next season.
If he wants to play a high pressing game he needs to change the personal,and quick.


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## Junior (Jan 4, 2022)

pendodave said:



			I'd argue it's been the key to success in the prem for the last 10 years at least. City and liverpool work really hard all the time. If 1 player doesn't, you just can't compete.
As for yernighted players, I'd love then to be so cheesed off with Maguire that they'd give him to WHU for 40mil. I think he'd be great in a Moyes team.
		
Click to expand...

I think if you put any of the man u players people are laughing at right now (Maguire, Lindleof, Fred, Lingaard, Rashford, McTominay, AWB etc) in another prem team like West Ham they would stand out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2022)

Man Utd right now are in the situation that Liverpool were in during the 90’s - 00’s -

They have some quality players within the squad , will win a good number of games , get the odd trophy but overall lack an identity and a way to play

Someone needs to come in with a proven track record and stamp their signature on the team , bring in the players they want and ship out who they don’t want

If they had Tuchel or Klopp then they would be up there where Chelsea and Liverpool are ( maybe higher with the higher level of money they spent )

If they had got Conte then he would be stamping his authority on the team

There would be on field strops and teddy’s thrown - ( just look at Ronaldo as Wolves were scoring )

And a lot of that is driven from above - the DoF - Chelsea , City, Liverpool have football people in those roles - Utd have an accountant - that sums up imo Utd’s overall issue

The football side of the club needs to be ripped up and started again - and the first appointment is the DoF

Get him in - then the manager , find an identity , get the right players for the tactics ( not for the commercial value ) and then give it time

Rangnick was superb as DoF for Red Bull - they need to find the manager

If they don’t sort it out then they will end up being exactly how we were for 20 plus years - it’s already 9 or 10 years since their last title and 14 since CL


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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2022)

Junior said:



			I'd agree mate....on paper we have.  What then are the issues?  IMO Ronaldo, as good has he is has upset the balance of the side.  Pogba hasn't had his 10 games this season where he's that Rolls Royce of a player he can be (it's usually about the Jan transfer window that it kicks in).

Maybe get rid of both of them, play a younger more passionate 4-3-3 team. 

Greenwood/Cavani CF, Sancho right,  Rashford Left, Bruno, Lingaard, Mctominay, Shaw, Dalot, Varane, Bailly, DDG.  IMO this is a  team that plays for the badge not insta pictures.

To play RR style from I've seen you need grafters and players willing to put in the hard yards.
		
Click to expand...

It's easy enough to point the finger at Ronaldo but the players themselves individually and as a collective have been poor. 

From my memory i cant remember a player who has consistently stood out except De Gea to date. 

Lingaard is a myth imo. He had a great spell at West Ham but people seem to forget his average performances the previous 7yrs at Yernited. 

There's no way any manager could drop Ronaldo, look at what happened when Ole rested him against Everton. 

He's box office and every moan, groan, hands on his hips, showing of hands etc is caught and beamed around the world.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2022)

Junior said:



			I think if you put any of the man u players people are laughing at right now (Maguire, Lindleof, Fred, Lingaard, Rashford, McTominay, AWB etc) in another prem team like West Ham they would stand out.
		
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If they offer us all of them for rice I'd consider it 😁


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## Swango1980 (Jan 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Man Utd right now are in the situation that Liverpool were in during the 90’s - 00’s -

They have some quality players within the squad , will win a good number of games , get the odd trophy but overall lack an identity and a way to play

Someone needs to come in with a proven track record and stamp their signature on the team , bring in the players they want and ship out who they don’t want

If they had Tuchel or Klopp then they would be up there where Chelsea and Liverpool are ( maybe higher with the higher level of money they spent )

If they had got Conte then he would be stamping his authority on the team

There would be on field strops and teddy’s thrown - *( just look at Ronaldo as Wolves were scoring )*

And a lot of that is driven from above - the DoF - Chelsea , City, Liverpool have football people in those roles - Utd have an accountant - that sums up imo Utd’s overall issue

The football side of the club needs to be ripped up and started again - and the first appointment is the DoF

Get him in - then the manager , find an identity , get the right players for the tactics ( not for the commercial value ) and then give it time

Rangnick was superb as DoF for Red Bull - they need to find the manager

If they don’t sort it out then they will end up being exactly how we were for 20 plus years - it’s already 9 or 10 years since their last title and 14 since CL
		
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You seem to have a particular hatred towards Ronaldo. It is not exactly uncommon for any player to show their frustrations when things are not going well, especially after just conceding a goal.

We can point at individual players all day long, but it has already been done to death. The only players coming out with any credit so far this season are De Gea, Ronaldo and Cavani. But, forwards without service don't do not really get the chance to shine. The middle of the spine is horrific. McTomminay and Fred may be decent squad players (maybe like a Nicky Butt), but they are not ones to dictate the tempo of a game in or out of possession. They are completely disconnected to the rest of the team, especially the guys on the wings who are basically non existent out of possession, and predictable in possession.

Rangnick needs to sort that out somehow. What annoys me is:

In possession: Players cannot make the shortest of short passes, especially when they panic when opposition close them down. That is poor. However, it is not just the players ability to make a pass, it is the fact their team mates are often hiding behind an opponent. There are no, or few options for a player to make a pass. Sometimes, all it would take is a team mate to take a few steps either side, and they'd be free. It looks like this must be down to severe lack of confidence, and players relying on their team mates to score the goals.

Out of possession: We are far too nice. When opponents have the ball, all too often United players just jockey them, or shuffle about into a reasonable position. They rarely, almost never, put the opponents under pressure. Nearly every game I watch, the opponents seem to have so much time in possession and it looks so comfortable for them.

In a way, I'd like Rangnick and the players to almost have only the very basic set of tactics to follow. Instead, I'd like them to try and go out and play with aggression. Not dangerous leg breaking tackles, but simply focusing on going out there and, if nothing else, focus on winning every physical battle. Playing with passion. Showing the opponents they are up for the battle. OK, maybe they'll still have poor results. But, if they get used to an aggressive style of football, and playing with passion, they can then start to tweak tactics to then try and bring out their qualities as players. Otherwise, trying to focus on the technical aspects of their game now seems pointless, because the opponents will nearly always be able to unsettle them when push comes to shove.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2022)

Liverpools training cancelled today - reports of more Covid cases including the keepers so suspect the game with Arsenal is in doubt


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## Junior (Jan 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			You seem to have a particular hatred towards Ronaldo. It is not exactly uncommon for any player to show their frustrations when things are not going well, especially after just conceding a goal.

We can point at individual players all day long, but it has already been done to death. The only players coming out with any credit so far this season are De Gea, Ronaldo and Cavani. But, forwards without service don't do not really get the chance to shine. The middle of the spine is horrific. McTomminay and Fred may be decent squad players (maybe like a Nicky Butt), but they are not ones to dictate the tempo of a game in or out of possession. They are completely disconnected to the rest of the team, especially the guys on the wings who are basically non existent out of possession, and predictable in possession.

Rangnick needs to sort that out somehow. What annoys me is:

In possession: Players cannot make the shortest of short passes, especially when they panic when opposition close them down. That is poor. However, it is not just the players ability to make a pass, it is the fact their team mates are often hiding behind an opponent. There are no, or few options for a player to make a pass. Sometimes, all it would take is a team mate to take a few steps either side, and they'd be free. It looks like this must be down to severe lack of confidence, and players relying on their team mates to score the goals.

Out of possession: We are far too nice. When opponents have the ball, all too often United players just jockey them, or shuffle about into a reasonable position. They rarely, almost never, put the opponents under pressure. Nearly every game I watch, the opponents seem to have so much time in possession and it looks so comfortable for them.

In a way, I'd like Rangnick and the players to almost have only the very basic set of tactics to follow. Instead, I'd like them to try and go out and play with aggression. Not dangerous leg breaking tackles, but simply focusing on going out there and, if nothing else, focus on winning every physical battle. Playing with passion. Showing the opponents they are up for the battle. OK, maybe they'll still have poor results. But, if they get used to an aggressive style of football, and playing with passion, they can then start to tweak tactics to then try and bring out their qualities as players. Otherwise, trying to focus on the technical aspects of their game now seems pointless, because the opponents will nearly always be able to unsettle them when push comes to shove.
		
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Agreed,  I don't think I've seen us give the ball away in a match as much as i have I have in the last 2 games.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpools training cancelled today - reports of more Covid cases including the keepers so suspect the game with Arsenal is in doubt
		
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After years of seeing him for west ham I can confirm that Adrian probably hasn't caught covid.


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## BrianM (Jan 4, 2022)

Nathan Paterson has signed for Everton, boy has loads of potential, hopefully Rafa will get the best out of him.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 4, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Nathan Paterson has signed for Everton, boy has loads of potential, hopefully Rafa will get the best out of him.
		
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He might for the few weeks he has left


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## Hogieefc (Jan 4, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			He might for the few weeks he has left 

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Hopefully


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## SaintHacker (Jan 4, 2022)

New owners confirmed for Southampton. Hopefully these ones are actually willing and able to invest in the club


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2022)

SaintHacker said:



			New owners confirmed for Southampton. Hopefully these ones are actually willing and able to invest in the club 

Click to expand...

I was shocked at £100 million tho? Seems so low for a club ..

I mean we got investment of £150 for 27% was it?

Newcastle £350 million


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59872772

Requested to postpone the match now


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478003717341421569
Gallaghers view on the Mane incident 

I wonder if he has ever disagreed with the ref


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## Foxholer (Jan 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			...
I wonder if he has ever disagreed with the ref
		
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Well, that was easy!
https://www.liverpoolworld.uk/sport...versial-tottenham-vs-liverpool-moment-3501377


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 4, 2022)




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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 4, 2022)

SaintHacker said:



			New owners confirmed for Southampton. Hopefully these ones are actually willing and able to invest in the club 

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It all seemed a  bit sudden. Was there any hint of it happening and why do you think it was such a low price compared to other takeovers for a mid-table side


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 4, 2022)

The spending has started - Trippier to Newcastle https://www.skysports.com/football/...e-with-atletico-madrid-for-england-right-back


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## Foxholer (Jan 4, 2022)

SaintHacker said:



			New owners confirmed for Southampton. Hopefully these ones are actually willing and able to invest in the club 

Click to expand...

Why does the 'Hearts of Mid Lithuania' episode spring to mind? I hope it goes better than that did!


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## SaintHacker (Jan 4, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It all seemed a  bit sudden. Was there any hint of it happening and why do you think it was such a low price compared to other takeovers for a mid-table side
		
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Its been going on for a few months according to the chief executive today, all the correct tests etc have been passed with the premier league. No idea about the price, something to do with the debt owed by the previous owner not included in the figure, whereas it is with other takeovers or something. I'm not an accountant so can't expand. What is definite good news is that it is a cash buy out, there is no debt to service for the purchase of the club.


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## Swingalot (Jan 4, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The spending has started - Trippier to Newcastle https://www.skysports.com/football/...e-with-atletico-madrid-for-england-right-back

Click to expand...

Newcastle saying 12m......reports in Spain its 20m plus...and so it begins. FFP


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## SaintHacker (Jan 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Why does the 'Hearts of Mid Lithuania' episode spring to mind? I hope it goes better than that did!
		
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It doesn't?


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## Foxholer (Jan 4, 2022)

SaintHacker said:



			It doesn't?
		
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Does for me! But, as per my above post...I hope it goes better than that did!


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## Beezerk (Jan 5, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Newcastle saying 12m......reports in Spain its 20m plus...and so it begins. FFP
		
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A mate was saying the other day, as Mike Ashley barely spent any money over the last few years Newcastle can spend hundreds of millions of pounds before they get anywhere near the FFP threshold. I'm not exactly sure what the figure is, but it's a lot.


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## Billysboots (Jan 5, 2022)

My take on Man United? There is something fundamentally wrong at that club and it runs far deeper than just the manager, so anyone expecting Rangnick to turn things around in half a dozen games is wearing the rosiest of rose tinted specs.

You can see from what goes on down on the pitch that there are big issues behind the scenes. None of us will ever know what those issues are, but there appears to be no harmony whatsoever between the playing staff, and that is impacting on virtually everything they do. It’s in their body language, and it does not take a genius psychologist to see it.


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## Orikoru (Jan 5, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			A mate was saying the other day, as Mike Ashley barely spent any money over the last few years Newcastle can spend hundreds of millions of pounds before they get anywhere near the FFP threshold. I'm not exactly sure what the figure is, but it's a lot.
		
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Clearly Spurs are likely to be the big spenders here then. 

Everton are screwed as well. At least their overspending is paying off on the pitch! Oh wait.

I hate FFP to be honest. I think it's a joke. All it does is keep the rich rich and stop anyone else muscling in on the parade. They pretend it's to stop the big clubs just buying up all the big name players, but as you can see here all the bigger clubs still have plenty of wriggle room, perhaps excluding City but they already spent big last summer.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 5, 2022)

So Everton bought Patterson with 'dirty money'.
That is a model that is consistent with failure.


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## Cherry13 (Jan 5, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			A mate was saying the other day, as Mike Ashley barely spent any money over the last few years Newcastle can spend hundreds of millions of pounds before they get anywhere near the FFP threshold. I'm not exactly sure what the figure is, but it's a lot.
		
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220m or so is the figure based on financial performance over the last few years. That doesn’t include increased sponsorship figures and deals. (Sports direct were paying £1m per year for wall to wall sponsorship, I think we can get more from aramco  moving forward)
The other factor is how transfer fees are accounted for, so assuming trippier is on a 3 year deal the transfer fee will be either 4 mill per season or 6.6 or what ever so potentially scope their to massively spend. 

Regarding the sale price vs Southampton, yes your correct Ashley included about 160m worth of loans in the sale. So probably only paid in region of 140 mill for club.


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## Beezerk (Jan 5, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			220m or so is the figure based on financial performance over the last few years. That doesn’t include increased sponsorship figures and deals. (Sports direct were paying £1m per year for wall to wall sponsorship, I think we can get more from aramco  moving forward)
The other factor is how transfer fees are accounted for, so assuming trippier is on a 3 year deal the transfer fee will be either 4 mill per season or 6.6 or what ever so potentially scope their to massively spend. 

Regarding the sale price vs Southampton, yes your correct Ashley included about 160m worth of loans in the sale. So probably only paid in region of 140 mill for club.
		
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Your middle point is what my mate was saying, depending on how the deals are done (and what website you look at lol) it could be upwards of £600.
Either way it’s going to be a fun transfer window 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So Everton bought Patterson with 'dirty money'.
That is a model that is consistent with failure.
		
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Everton will be clearing a lot of money from their wage bill by June 2nd so that will resolve that issue along with the imminent sale of Digne. Patterson is also a snip at around £10m, no doubt spread as @Cherry13 describes, so no 'dirty money'.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Your middle point is what my mate was saying, depending on how the deals are done (and what website you look at lol) it could be upwards of £600.
Either way it’s going to be a fun transfer window 😂
		
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I think I am right in saying that FFP is a UEFA thing. If Newcastle, or Everton, break the rules, then big deal. If UEFA want to ban them from the CL for a couple of seasons it is not really going to impact, is it?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 40367


Clearly Spurs are likely to be the big spenders here then. 

Everton are screwed as well. At least their overspending is paying off on the pitch! Oh wait.

I hate FFP to be honest. I think it's a joke. All it does is keep the rich rich and stop anyone else muscling in on the parade. They pretend it's to stop the big clubs just buying up all the big name players, but as you can see here all the bigger clubs still have plenty of wriggle room, perhaps excluding City but they already spent big last summer.
		
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Everton are screwed then


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think I am right in saying that FFP is a UEFA thing. If Newcastle, or Everton, break the rules, then big deal. If UEFA want to ban them from the CL for a couple of seasons it is not really going to impact, is it?
		
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There are versions of FFP within the Premier league and the EFL - all work alongside the same model - in the Prem it’s transfer bans and fines etc


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 5, 2022)

I thought we didn’t believe everything we read in the media:
Googleing “Can Everton spend in Jan” brings up 5-6 articles quoteing the range -35mil to 100mil available.

Whatever he spends it can’t be any worse than the rubbish we’ve already got.


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## Foxholer (Jan 5, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			A mate was saying the other day, as Mike Ashley barely spent any money over the last few years Newcastle can spend hundreds of millions of pounds before they get anywhere near the FFP threshold. I'm not exactly sure what the figure is, but it's a lot.
		
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My understanding is that it's based on profit/loss over last few years and that expenditure 'allowance' depends on whether owner has funded losses (in which case significantly more is allowed) or not. 
Not sure which value the chart shown earlier uses.


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## Hobbit (Jan 5, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I thought we didn’t believe everything we read in the media:
Googleing “Can Everton spend in Jan” brings up 5-6 articles quoteing the range -35mil to 100mil available.

Whatever he spends it can’t be any worse than the rubbish we’ve already got.
		
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What’s gone wrong at Everton this season? I expected Benitez might get them pushing for top 6, not bottom 6.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 5, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			What’s gone wrong at Everton this season? I expected Benitez might get them pushing for top 6, not bottom 6.
		
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Needs time imo Bri, the last few yesrs we’ve chopped n changed managers, wasted millions on dross players and everytime a manager has come in he’s changed the style etc.

Personally don’t see us going anywhere but backwards if we bin benitez, (unless we are relegated) he needs time to get the players he wants and who understand how he wants to play football.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			What’s gone wrong at Everton this season? I expected Benitez might get them pushing for top 6, not bottom 6.
		
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We are missing Calvert Lewin's goals massively, our back up is non existent. Benitez is also trying to bring in his style of football and we don't necessarily have the players to do it. Add in a number of injuries, outside of DCL, and it shows the lack of depth we have. That lack of depth is largely down to poor buying over a number of years lumbering us with players on high wages that no one else wants and are draining the wage bill. If we can get DCL back and scoring, he is back now but needs to get match sharp, then the pressure should release very quickly.

Further to what Paul wrote, we played a game before Christmas where the team contained players bought by 7 different managers. No way are you going to get any type of cohesion with that type of buying. We need to commit to a manager and stick with them for a period.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We are missing Calvert Lewin's goals massively, our back up is non existent. *Benitez is also trying to bring in his style of football and we don't necessarily have the players to do it.* Add in a number of injuries, outside of DCL, and it shows the lack of depth we have. That lack of depth is largely down to poor buying over a number of years lumbering us with players on high wages that no one else wants and are draining the wage bill. If we can get DCL back and scoring, he is back now but needs to get match sharp, then the pressure should release very quickly.

Further to what Paul wrote, we played a game before Christmas where the team contained players bought by 7 different managers. No way are you going to get any type of cohesion with that type of buying. We need to commit to a manager and stick with them for a period.
		
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This was Arsenal when Arteta first went and for a season or so. He just did not have the players. He does now and there not doing to bad at all. Benitez is no muppet and needs time. 👍


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## Bdill93 (Jan 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 40367


Clearly Spurs are likely to be the big spenders here then. 

Everton are screwed as well. At least their overspending is paying off on the pitch! Oh wait.

I hate FFP to be honest. I think it's a joke. All it does is keep the rich rich and stop anyone else muscling in on the parade. They pretend it's to stop the big clubs just buying up all the big name players, but as you can see here all the bigger clubs still have plenty of wriggle room, perhaps excluding City but they already spent big last summer.
		
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Aint no way we dont spend more than 5m


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## fundy (Jan 5, 2022)

One rule for Leyton Orient, a different one for Liverpool it seems.......


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			One rule for Leyton Orient, a different one for Liverpool it seems.......
		
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Sounds like Twitter - multiple clubs have asked for postponements due to Covid - we have had to close our training ground , more cases including staff , we ask for a postponement and it’s as if we are the first club to do it. If we have a team available then we would play it - just like when we were having to play the quarter final the day after the World Club Cup two years ago 

There is space and time for the game to be played later in the month when hopefully more players are available - when it happens with Orient I believe there was no time to rearrange due to the next round


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## DanFST (Jan 5, 2022)

As long as Klopp doesn't dare bring up fixture congestion again late January.


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## fundy (Jan 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sounds like Twitter - multiple clubs have asked for postponements due to Covid - we have had to close our training ground , more cases including staff , we ask for a postponement and it’s as if we are the first club to do it. If we have a team available then we would play it - just like when we were having to play the quarter final the day after the World Club Cup two years ago

There is space and time for the game to be played later in the month when hopefully more players are available - when it happens with Orient I believe there was no time to rearrange due to the next round
		
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no Leyton Orient were the first to do it


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 5, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478715096104853506
😬😂😂


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Sounds like Twitter* - multiple clubs have asked for postponements due to Covid - we have had to close our training ground , more cases including staff , we ask for a postponement and it’s as if we are the first club to do it. If we have a team available then we would play it - just like when we were having to play the quarter final the day after the World Club Cup two years ago

There is space and time for the game to be played later in the month when hopefully more players are available - when it happens with Orient I believe there was no time to rearrange due to the next round
		
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Bet you set them straight tho didn’t you Phil 😂😂


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## pokerjoke (Jan 5, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Bet you set them straight tho didn’t you Phil 😂😂
		
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It sounds like he’s on the board and he’s the spokesman


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			no Leyton Orient were the first to do it 

Click to expand...

Surely the rules of any competition have to be applied equally across the board - or not. With all the PL fixtures already postponed you could argue there is as little room to rearrange as there was at the very beginning when Orient weren't allowed more time


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Surely the rules of any competition have to be applied equally across the board - or not. With all the PL fixtures already postponed you could argue there is as little room to rearrange as there was at the very beginning when Orient weren't allowed more time
		
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I heard this discussed on the radio earlier. For orient the next round was the following week,  apparently, and so there was no time to fit it in. They could have delayed their next game of course but the competition didn't want that to happen, didn't want the comp to be out of sync.

For the liverpool game there is space, it is being played the week following the new 1st leg and it is before the final.

Whether you buy into this or not is another matter but that is the explanation I heard.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 5, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Surely the rules of any competition have to be applied equally across the board - or not. With all the PL fixtures already postponed you could argue there is as little room to rearrange as there was at the very beginning when Orient weren't allowed more time
		
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Different season tho isn't it? So long as applied uniform for that entry there isn't an issue


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## Captainron (Jan 5, 2022)

Great start by Spurs. “Scored” both goals


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## SteveW86 (Jan 5, 2022)

Davies unlucky there, clearly hits him on the arm


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## Jensen (Jan 5, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Great start by Spurs. “Scored” both goals 

Click to expand...

Just goes to show…..we can score


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## Captainron (Jan 5, 2022)

Why does the League Cup have 2 legged semi finals again? Weird


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## Dando (Jan 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			One rule for Leyton Orient, a different one for Liverpool it seems.......
		
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completely different circumstances


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I heard this discussed on the radio earlier. For orient the next round was the following week,  apparently, and so there was no time to fit it in. They could have delayed their next game of course but the competition didn't want that to happen, didn't want the comp to be out of sync.

For the liverpool game there is space, it is being played the week following the new 1st leg and it is before the final.

Whether you buy into this or not is another matter but that is the explanation I heard.
		
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Did they mention if they’ve asked for the Cup match against Shrewsbury on sunday to be postponed as well?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Did they mention if they’ve asked for the Cup match against Shrewsbury on sunday to be postponed as well?
		
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No, it wasn't mentioned. They did say that the FA Cup wasn't restricted to just nominated squad players though so if Liverpool have enough U23, U19 or whatever then the game goes ahead. Apparently this happened to villa last year and they had to play an fa Cup game with similar. That was the game mentioned as an example.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 5, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Why does the League Cup have 2 legged semi finals again? Weird
		
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To try and make it interesting. The only time anyone actually gives a hoot about it is if their team get to a semi final!


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## Captainron (Jan 5, 2022)

SaintHacker said:



			To try and make it interesting. The only time anyone actually gives a hoot about it is if their team get to a semi final!
		
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Soooooo as a Saints fan, you’ve not been very interested in this for a loooooong time


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## Foxholer (Jan 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			...
I hate FFP to be honest. I think it's a joke. All it does is keep the rich rich and stop anyone else muscling in on the parade. They pretend it's to stop the big clubs just buying up all the big name players, but as you can see here all the bigger clubs still have plenty of wriggle room, perhaps excluding City but they already spent big last summer.
		
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Well, the intention was to prevent clubs over-committing, then/thus going bust!
Not absolutely convinced that it does that, but there _have_ been fewer clubs getting into financial trouble (Barcelona being an obvious exception, but they are a unique club anyway). I think that 'wriggle room' in the chart could well be a result of the policy though, as, from memory, several of those listed were much more severely limited in its early days. 
To me, FFP makes it more difficult for clubs to 'move up a level'. So for PL and barring some canny management, the same half dozen or so will be at the top. Similar is likely to happen at the bottom too, with perhaps 1 or 2 'surprises'. That leaves the mid table pretty much 'as usual too'!


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## Bdill93 (Jan 6, 2022)

If Villa sign Coutinho


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## Orikoru (Jan 6, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			If Villa sign Coutinho 

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Madness if that goes through. Inter, Liverpool, Barca, Bayern.... Villa.   How the mighty have fallen. Surprised Liverpool won't take him on loan to cover the Afcon.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Madness if that goes through. Inter, Liverpool, Barca, Bayern.... Villa.   How the mighty have fallen. Surprised Liverpool won't take him on loan to cover the Afcon.
		
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Legit.. Would be a really weird move but apparently he wants a "football project" its not all about the money this time around. I for one, am backing him to become Messi of the west mids


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Madness if that goes through. Inter, Liverpool, Barca, Bayern.... Villa.   How the mighty have fallen. Surprised Liverpool won't take him on loan to cover the Afcon.
		
Click to expand...

It's all about the wages. He is on huge amounts, has not played much. None of the really big boys want to take the risk at the wage rate he is on. He is happy, so it seems, to sit out his contract at Barca so he either accepts a drop in club level, whilst taking the big money, or gets splinters at Barca. He could be a great gamble for Villa or they could be chucking money down the drain. For 6 months it is probably worth a pop.


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## Orikoru (Jan 6, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Legit.. Would be a really weird move but apparently he wants a "football project" its not all about the money this time around. I for one, am backing him to become Messi of the west mids 

Click to expand...

Would certainly be a perfect replacement for Grealish. I was forgetting he would have played with Gerrard for a couple of years at Liverpool so maybe that'll help swing things.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's all about the wages. He is on huge amounts, has not played much. None of the really big boys want to take the risk at the wage rate he is on. He is happy, so it seems, to sit out his contract at Barca so he either accepts a drop in club level, whilst taking the big money, or gets splinters at Barca. He could be a great gamble for Villa or they could be chucking money down the drain. For 6 months it is probably worth a pop.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely worth a pop! Has been a great player over the years.



Orikoru said:



			Would certainly be a perfect replacement for Grealish. I was forgetting he would have played with Gerrard for a couple of years at Liverpool so maybe that'll help swing things.
		
Click to expand...

Very different team now but we could do with someone with that X factor who can change a game! Interesting times - can Gerrard convince him?!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 6, 2022)

He has been rubbish for 3 years now , Klopp wouldn’t touch him for not just that reason as well. He will always be the poster boy for Barcelonas ridiculous spending that caused their current downfall 

happy to see him rot away


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## Bdill93 (Jan 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has been rubbish for 3 years now , Klopp wouldn’t touch him for not just that reason as well. He will always be the poster boy for Barcelonas ridiculous spending that caused their current downfall

*happy to see him rot away*

Click to expand...

Bit harsh? Was a good player for you and the money in from him more or less funded 2/3 of your current best players. 

He actually did well for Bayern when loaned out and actually playing football.


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## Beezerk (Jan 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has been rubbish for 3 years now , Klopp wouldn’t touch him for not just that reason as well. He will always be the poster boy for Barcelonas ridiculous spending that caused their current downfall

happy to see him rot away
		
Click to expand...

Wow, that doesn't sound like sour grapes at all


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 6, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Wow, that doesn't sound like sour grapes at all 

Click to expand...

Not all divorces are happy ones, clearly


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 6, 2022)

I'd have Coutinho back if we thought he was 3/4's the player he was when he left.

I hated the way he left the club, but we didnt do too bad out of it, with hindsight.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has been rubbish for 3 years now , Klopp wouldn’t touch him for not just that reason as well. He will always be the poster boy for Barcelonas ridiculous spending that caused their current downfall

happy to see him rot away
		
Click to expand...

Are you now saying you don’t believe he had a bad back? 🤔


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 6, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			If Villa sign Coutinho 

Click to expand...

I could see him being a good signing Tbf.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 6, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Bit harsh? Was a good player for you and the money in from him more or less funded 2/3 of your current best players.

He actually did well for Bayern when loaned out and actually playing football.
		
Click to expand...

He was good for us , and we managed to fleece Barce for a lot of money but the way he left means he would never be welcomed back by the manager for one let alone the fans - so have enjoyed watching the move fail. 

And Bayern he wasn’t that great hence why they sent him back


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## Slime (Jan 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not all divorces are happy ones, clearly 

Click to expand...

Mine was.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 7, 2022)

Coutinho is a Villain


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## pauljames87 (Jan 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Coutinho is a Villain 

Click to expand...

Impressive, interested to see if he can find his form

One for the fantasy football


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Coutinho is a Villain 

Click to expand...

Could be a great move. On loan so if he bombs he's gone in the summer anyway. Will be interesting to see how this plays out


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Could be a great move. On loan so if he bombs he's gone in the summer anyway. Will be interesting to see how this plays out
		
Click to expand...

He’s going to rip it up for Villa,then one of the top 4 sign him at the end of the season.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			He’s going to rip it up for Villa,then one of the top 4 sign him at the end of the season.
		
Click to expand...

We have the option to buy


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## pauljames87 (Jan 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			We have the option to buy
		
Click to expand...

That's the key tho

Is it an obligation or an option 

Also there may be a clause option but only if certain targets or if no champs League clubs come in


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## Neilds (Jan 7, 2022)

The BBC website has an article covering the FA Cup build up - if you read it you would think that the only FA Cup matches this weekend involve Premiership teams   Why do they never care about lower league teams?


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## Hobbit (Jan 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			The BBC website has an article covering the FA Cup build up - if you read it you would think that the only FA Cup matches this weekend involve Premiership teams   Why do they never care about lower league teams?
		
Click to expand...

Its not as though the Beeb are reliant on money from those clubs. Very poor of the Beeb in my opinion.


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## GB72 (Jan 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			The BBC website has an article covering the FA Cup build up - if you read it you would think that the only FA Cup matches this weekend involve Premiership teams   Why do they never care about lower league teams?
		
Click to expand...

Becasue the premier league marketing machine has done a great job over the years convincing the media and social media that football outside of the premier league does not exist. You can add to that the fact that the BBC for a long time has been outside of its public broadcaster remit and focuses on what gets clicks and viewers as opposed to focusing on areas undereprestented in the paid media as they should do.


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## Orikoru (Jan 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			The BBC website has an article covering the FA Cup build up - if you read it you would think that the only FA Cup matches this weekend involve Premiership teams   Why do they never care about lower league teams?
		
Click to expand...

Because lower league teams don't earn them any clicks.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			The BBC website has an article covering the FA Cup build up - if you read it you would think that the only FA Cup matches this weekend involve Premiership teams   Why do they never care about lower league teams?
		
Click to expand...

Because most people don't care that much about lower league teams. Even if they support a lower league team themselves, they'll not care that much about other lower league teams generally. Whereas, Premiership teams not only usually have more supporters, but even non-supporters often have some sort of interest.

Just go back through every post on this thread. What percentage of posts are related to Premiership teams, especially Man Utd, Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Spurs? Compare that with the percentage of posts that are about lower league clubs like Swindon, Mansfield and Morecambe. I'd be surprised if more than 5% of posts are related to lower league clubs. 

So, before criticising the BBC by not caring about lower league teams, maybe you need to criticise fans in general. Because it is clear we do not care enough to discuss them in forums.


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## GB72 (Jan 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Because most people don't care that much about lower league teams. Even if they support a lower league team themselves, they'll not care that much about other lower league teams generally. Whereas, Premiership teams not only usually have more supporters, but even non-supporters often have some sort of interest.

Just go back through every post on this thread. What percentage of posts are related to Premiership teams, especially Man Utd, Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Spurs? Compare that with the percentage of posts that are about lower league clubs like Swindon, Mansfield and Morecambe. I'd be surprised if more than 5% of posts are related to lower league clubs.

So, before criticising the BBC by not caring about lower league teams, maybe you need to criticise fans in general. Because it is clear we do not care enough to discuss them in forums.
		
Click to expand...

I guess the point is that the BBC, as a public broadcaster, should focus on the underepresentated areas and leave the rest to the privately funded channels. As such, the BBC should be focusing on lower league clubs on the basis that other channels are already providing ample coverage of premier league teams. The purpose of the licence fee is so that the BBC can do these things without worrying about viewing figures or clicks. Sadly it has drifted away from this. Unrealistic to expect the BBC to pay for FA cup rights and not show the biggest clubs but, strictly speaking, they should be showing matches from clubs that get little coverage elsewhere. 

Not haivng a particular dig at the BBC, just applying a literal interpretation of what they should be doing as a public service broadcaster.


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## Neilds (Jan 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			So, before criticising the BBC by not caring about lower league teams, maybe you need to criticise fans in general. Because it is clear we do not care enough to discuss them in forums.
		
Click to expand...

If I started criticising the glory hunters on this forum I would be accused of trolling and end up being Fraggered! 

Obviously not the Everton fans !


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## Hobbit (Jan 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Because most people don't care that much about lower league teams. Even if they support a lower league team themselves, they'll not care that much about other lower league teams generally. Whereas, Premiership teams not only usually have more supporters, but even non-supporters often have some sort of interest.

Just go back through every post on this thread. What percentage of posts are related to Premiership teams, especially Man Utd, Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Spurs? Compare that with the percentage of posts that are about lower league clubs like Swindon, Mansfield and Morecambe. I'd be surprised if more than 5% of posts are related to lower league clubs.

So, before criticising the BBC by not caring about lower league teams, maybe you need to criticise fans in general. Because it is clear we do not care enough to discuss them in forums.
		
Click to expand...

Is there a chicken and egg issue there? The Beeb highlight the top clubs, so the top clubs get talked about more.  I can join in a conversation about Utd, City, L’pool etc because I get to read articles in the media and on the Beeb but who would join in a debate about Middlesbrough, Sunderland or Yeovil when there’s nothing to inform other fans about what’s going on at those clubs…


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Because most people don't care that much about lower league teams. Even if they support a lower league team themselves, they'll not care that much about other lower league teams generally. Whereas, Premiership teams not only usually have more supporters, but even non-supporters often have some sort of interest.

Just go back through every post on this thread. What percentage of posts are related to Premiership teams, especially Man Utd, Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Spurs? Compare that with the percentage of posts that are about lower league clubs like Swindon, Mansfield and Morecambe. I'd be surprised if more than 5% of posts are related to lower league clubs.

So, before criticising the BBC by not caring about lower league teams, maybe you need to criticise fans in general. Because it is clear we do not care enough to discuss them in forums.
		
Click to expand...

You don’t even support a local Club!

This thread has for the last few years been called the PL Thread, we had a Championshio Thread and then every time a tournament came along, World Cup, Euros etc a new thread started, too many threads developed so the PL Thread 19/20 (I think) was renamed to what it is now.

Anybody is welcome to discuss any team, but they isn’t going to be much discussion, I’ve seen more local and lower league football in the flesh than I have PL football in the last 5 years and if I bring up a bad tackle in the Seaham Red Star v Shildon cup match last month no one else can discuss it as they didn’t see it, so with the point of a forum being to be able to debate is it any surprise the issues discussed are the ones people have in common.

People discuss what interests them!


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 7, 2022)

Mendy has been granted bail;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59910794

I wonder what has changed here...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Mendy has been granted bail;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59910794

I wonder what has changed here... 

Click to expand...

That’s quite a dramatic change - something got to have happened


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## Foxholer (Jan 7, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			...
I wonder what has changed here... 

Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s quite a dramatic change - something got to have happened
		
Click to expand...

Having read the article, I saw that his trial was shunted from 'this month' to 'June at the earliest' - as per the article!


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s quite a dramatic change - something got to have happened
		
Click to expand...


You'd have thought so, wouldn't you?  He has to surrender his passport, not contact the complainants & live at his home address; I presume there will be some "improved security" given the video that was doing the rounds.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			You'd have thought so, wouldn't you?  He has to surrender his passport, not contact the complainants & live at his home address; I presume there will be some "improved security" given the video that was doing the rounds.
		
Click to expand...

Video?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 7, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			You don’t even support a local Club!

This thread has for the last few years been called the PL Thread, we had a Championshio Thread and then every time a tournament came along, World Cup, Euros etc a new thread started, too many threads developed so the PL Thread 19/20 (I think) was renamed to what it is now.

Anybody is welcome to discuss any team, but they isn’t going to be much discussion, I’ve seen more local and lower league football in the flesh than I have PL football in the last 5 years and if I bring up a bad tackle in the Seaham Red Star v Shildon cup match last month no one else can discuss it as they didn’t see it, so with the point of a forum being to be able to debate is it any surprise the issues discussed are the ones people have in common.

People discuss what interests them!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, so you just backed up the point I was making.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, so you just backed up the point I was making.
		
Click to expand...

Nope, you accussed people of not caring about lower league Clubs, plenty on here support their local teams, not discussing them does not equate to not caring or give you the right to criticise.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 7, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Mendy has been granted bail;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59910794

I wonder what has changed here... 

Click to expand...

We won't know. Reporters not allowed in during the hearing and restrictions applied https://www.skysports.com/football/...ndy-manchester-city-defender-released-on-bail


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## Swango1980 (Jan 7, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Nope, you accussed people of not caring about lower league Clubs, plenty on here support their local teams, not discussing them does not equate to not caring or give you the right to criticise.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely not, that is just you just reading between the lines for the sake of getting into an argument, or just wanting to find offence in anything so you can have a moan.

At no point did I ever accuse people of not caring about lower league clubs. I even acknowledged that in my response by saying lower league clubs have supporters. Clearly. And just as passionate as any other fan.

I simply made a factual statement that lower league clubs will stimulate significantly less interest amongst fans outside of their own club. Most fans can have an opinion on how poor Utd are, how bad a defender TAA is, how effective Lukaku is or whether Kane should stay in the opposition box. Very few fans have an opinion, or even care, how Stoke or Port Vale are getting on. Unless they specifically support those clubs themselves. So, seeing news about them on the BBC website is unlikely going to encourage them to click on the link to read more. They are more likely going to click on a link to read about Pogba's latest haircut and what club he wishes to join in the latest transfer window, or whatever other stories are floating out related to Premier League clubs.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Absolutely not, that is just you just reading between the lines for the sake of getting into an argument, or just wanting to find offence in anything so you can have a moan.

At no point did I ever accuse people of not caring about lower league clubs. I even acknowledged that in my response by saying lower league clubs have supporters. Clearly. And just as passionate as any other fan.

I simply made a factual statement that lower league clubs will stimulate significantly less interest amongst fans outside of their own club. Most fans can have an opinion on how poor Utd are, how bad a defender TAA is, how effective Lukaku is or whether Kane should stay in the opposition box. Very few fans have an opinion, or even care, how Stoke or Port Vale are getting on. Unless they specifically support those clubs themselves. So, seeing news about them on the BBC website is unlikely going to encourage them to click on the link to read more. They are more likely going to click on a link to read about Pogba's latest haircut and what club he wishes to join in the latest transfer window, or whatever other stories are floating out related to Premier League clubs.
		
Click to expand...

What rubbish! Do you have memory problems were you forget what you post?
ie:

You wrote - “Because most people *don't care* that much about lower league teams. Even if they support a lower league team themselves, *they'll not care that much* about other lower league teams generally.”

And have just said: “At no point did I ever accuse people of not caring about lower league clubs”

Oops

Then you finished with: “Because it is clear *we do not care* enough to discuss them in forums.”

Nobody is prevented from posting about a lower league team if they wish, whether they support them or not and as lower league teams are not mentioned much on the forum you translate that and make an assumption that no one on here cares!

Oops…again


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			Guys, sort this out by PM ........................................ please.
		
Click to expand...

No


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 7, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 40423

Click to expand...

Hilarious


----------



## fundy (Jan 7, 2022)

not sure thats the City side Swindon were expecting to see tonight lol


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2022)

As if Derby County fans havent had it bad enough lately, they now have Mike Ashley trying to buy the club


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## Hobbit (Jan 7, 2022)

Just saying… Billingham Synthonia have a tough match next up against Ryton & Crawcrook. They’re in 6th, and Ryton are 2nd 6 points ahead, having played 1 game more. Would be great to see the Synners get back back up in to Northern Division 1 where so many teams whose scores I look out for are playing, e.g. Guisborough Town and Whitby Town, both past winners of the FA Vase.

Still saddened by the demise of South Bank Athletic FC in 1999. They were the 6th oldest club in England. Wilf Mannion started out there before joining Middlesbrough. I used to pass it every day on the way to work and had the pleasure of playing there - roughest part of Middlesbrough with a great(hostile) atmosphere for visiting teams.


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## Beezerk (Jan 7, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Just saying… Billingham Synthonia have a tough match next up against Ryton & Crawcrook. They’re in 6th, and Ryton are 2nd 6 points ahead, having played 1 game more. Would be great to see the Synners get back back up in to Northern Division 1 where so many teams whose scores I look out for are playing, e.g. Guisborough Town and Whitby Town, both past winners of the FA Vase.


Still saddened by the demise of South Bank Athletic FC in 1999. They were the 6th oldest club in England. Wilf Mannion started out there before joining Middlesbrough. I used to pass it every day on the way to work and had the pleasure of playing there - roughest part of Middlesbrough with a great(hostile) atmosphere for visiting teams.
		
Click to expand...

Ooh I may have to go out and buy a Ryton scarf (it’s 3 miles down the road) 😂
I have a customer in Whitby, an old lad who works there is a staunch Whitby Town fan, his knowledge of North East non league football is immense. I’ve spent many an hour discussing players I’ve never heard of 🤣


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 7, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Ooh I may have to go out and buy a Ryton scarf (it’s 3 miles down the road) 😂
I have a customer in Whitby, an old lad who works there is a staunch Whitby Town fan, his knowledge of North East non league football is immense. I’ve spent many an hour discussing players I’ve never heard of 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Is that Ryton and Crawcrook Albion or is there more than 1 team in Ryton?

They are in Div 2 of the Northern Football League and will need to get promoted to face the mighty “Red Star”


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## Hobbit (Jan 7, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Is that Ryton and Crawcrook Albion or is there more than 1 team in Ryton?

They are in Div 2 of the Northern Football League and will need to get promoted to face the mighty “Red Star”

Click to expand...

It’s the Albion. Surprised Seaham have dropped away the way they have. And great to see West Auckland, the winners of the first World Cup, are doing so well.


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## Bazzatron (Jan 7, 2022)

If we sell Adama to Spurs and get Doherty in return I'm finding something else to do on Saturdays.


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## Beezerk (Jan 7, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Is that Ryton and Crawcrook Albion or is there more than 1 team in Ryton?

They are in Div 2 of the Northern Football League and will need to get promoted to face the mighty “Red Star”

Click to expand...

Yes Ryton and Crawcrook Albion however people around here tend to call them just Crawcrook or "the team that plays down Clara Vale"


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 7, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			It’s the Albion. Surprised Seaham have dropped away the way they have. And great to see West Auckland, the winners of the first World Cup, are doing so well.
		
Click to expand...

Seaham have never been any higher than Div 1, were they are now, promoted back up in 14/15.
West Auckland far better than Seaham this season.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 7, 2022)

The sad thing is that with the way my lot are playing this season I might have to start swatting up on some of the teams being mentioned. At the minute we're only heading in one direction and it's not a good one.


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## Hobbit (Jan 7, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Seaham have never been any higher than Div 1, were they are now, promoted back up in 14/15.
West Auckland far better than Seaham this season.

Click to expand...

Seaham have lost 4 of their last 5(?). Did West ever get their trophy back after the break in - they got to keep the original World Cup after winning it twice, the second time against Juventus.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 7, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Seaham have lost 4 of their last 5(?). Did West ever get their trophy back after the break in - they got to keep the original World Cup after winning it twice, the second time against Juventus.
		
Click to expand...

Mid season blip Play league leaders (Consett) at home tomorrow, a draw would be good, mind you had a bit of a rest after midweek cancelled due to floodlight failure


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			Guys, sort this out by PM ........................................ please.
		
Click to expand...




pauldj42 said:



			No
		
Click to expand...

Yes please


----------



## Swingalot (Jan 7, 2022)

Got to say, looking forward to the fa Cup game tomorrow more than most PL games. Millwall away, a South London derby and bragging rights with friends and family up for grabs. 

It will be a lively atmosphere as well, we've not played each other for a while and it's on TV.


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 7, 2022)

Got to love the gallows humour of the Swindon fans;

"It's only 3 nil,
It's only 3 nil,
How  must you be,
It's only 3 nil!"


----------



## fundy (Jan 7, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Got to love the gallows humour of the Swindon fans;

"It's only 3 nil,
It's only 3 nil,
How  must you be,
It's only 3 nil!"



Click to expand...


Its only 3-1
its only 3-1


----------



## BiMGuy (Jan 7, 2022)

Why do people rate Ally McCoist as a commentator? He’s adding absolutely nothing to this game.


----------



## Hobbit (Jan 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its only 3-1
its only 3-1 

Click to expand...

I turn over for 5 mins and they go and score… they’re not to be trusted!!


----------



## fundy (Jan 7, 2022)

you see that one Hobbit:


----------



## Hobbit (Jan 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			you see that one Hobbit: 

Click to expand...

Disgraceful. Right in the middle of reaching for my coffee!!


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 7, 2022)

Kayky is one I have been waiting to see 👍


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## pendodave (Jan 7, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Mid season blip Play league leaders (Consett) at home tomorrow, a draw would be good, mind you had a bit of a rest after midweek cancelled due to floodlight failure

Click to expand...

Apropos nothing in particular, I played my first game under floodlights against Consett about 37 years ago....


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 7, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			It’s the Albion. Surprised Seaham have dropped away the way they have. And great to see West Auckland, the winners of the first World Cup, are doing so well.
		
Click to expand...

Take it to PM II, guys.


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## Hobbit (Jan 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Take it to PM II, guys.



Click to expand...

Thought you’d want to talk about proper football Pete. Standing without a roof over your head, and paying 20p for a Bovril


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 7, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Thought you’d want to talk about proper football Pete. Standing without a roof over your head, and paying 20p for a Bovril

Click to expand...

Yep, and the Bovril lasts all game in the rain. 

As well as top end prem football, I go deeper, down and dirty for my proper football fix now and again.

Liverpool business houses prem, hangovers, pitbulls on the line (as well as on the pitch), no-one running the line. Proper!


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## Hobbit (Jan 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, and the Bovril lasts all game in the rain. 

As well as top end prem football, I go deeper, down and dirty for my proper football fix now and again.

Liverpool business houses prem, hangovers, pitbulls on the line (as well as on the pitch), no-one running the line. Proper!
		
Click to expand...

Don’t forget changing in the car and the slide tackle through the


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, and the Bovril lasts all game in the rain. 

As well as top end prem football, I go deeper, down and dirty for my proper football fix now and again.

Liverpool business houses prem, hangovers, pitbulls on the line (as well as on the pitch), no-one running the line. Proper!
		
Click to expand...

Bootle joc that was a killer league.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Don’t forget changing in the car and the slide tackle through the 

Click to expand...

Yep, and putting goal nets up and down, collecting the subs, and trying to get the right first name of the "ringers".


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## Swango1980 (Jan 8, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			What rubbish! Do you have memory problems were you forget what you post?
ie:

You wrote - “Because most people *don't care* that much about lower league teams. Even if they support a lower league team themselves, *they'll not care that much* about other lower league teams generally.”

And have just said: “At no point did I ever accuse people of not caring about lower league clubs”

Oops

Then you finished with: “Because it is clear *we do not care* enough to discuss them in forums.”

Nobody is prevented from posting about a lower league team if they wish, whether they support them or not and as lower league teams are not mentioned much on the forum you translate that and make an assumption that no one on here cares!

Oops…again

Click to expand...

I'll leave it like this, as I have zero interest in having a debate in this.

You do what the press do, and twist the context of what I said. You are even trying to highlight snippets to make it look like you have a point.

Try highlighting the bit "even if they support a lower league team themselves" instead of isolating the words "don't care". As I said, I never accused fans of not supporting or caring lower league clubs period. I DID say that are less likely to care about other lower league sides though.

I'm sure many of my mates here would love to see the BBC print loads of stories about Lincoln City. But, I'm sure they'd also recognise most of the rest of the country would have little or no interest. So it's no surprise Lincoln City stories are often non existent in the BBC footy headings, unless you go to the local section.

That is all. No accusations, no wishing to get into an argument, just my view and response to someone else's question.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)

Implications of this could see Chester FC going out of business.
English postcode, English Football Club, Ticket office in England, Part of ground in Wales as border runs through car park and East Stand. Just ridiculous

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59906505.amp


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 8, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Implications of this could see Chester FC going out of business.
English postcode, English Football Club, Ticket office in England, Part of ground in Wales as border runs through car park and East Stand. Just ridiculous

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59906505.amp

Click to expand...

From the article;

"As the enforcing authorities Flintshire County Council and *North Wales Police are dealing with the matter*."

Despite the geographic conundrum, *matchday policing at the Deva Stadium is carried out by Cheshire Constabulary*.

These 2 paragraphs sum up just how ridiculous the situation has become.  I'd like to comment further but that would probably delve into the realm of political comment...


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 8, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Implications of this could see Chester FC going out of business.
English postcode, English Football Club, Ticket office in England, Part of ground in Wales as border runs through car park and East Stand. Just ridiculous

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59906505.amp

Click to expand...






So if Google is correct, the ground is entirely in Wales, but it appears the only access is from England.  I'd like to think that this concern is entirely Covid driven, but I find it hard to believe.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



View attachment 40426



So if Google is correct, the ground is entirely in Wales, but it appears the only access is from England.  I'd like to think that this concern is entirely Covid driven, but I find it hard to believe.
		
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It was this bit from Sky News that got me:

“Chester is an English city, but the border with Wales runs through the centre of it - including across the club's Deva Stadium, leaving the ticket office in England and the pitch in Wales.

By law, all the fans could meet in the car park and the club would not be breaking any rules, but as soon as they step foot in the ground, they are governed by Welsh law.

Chairman Andy Morris told the PA news agency: "As a club, we rely on gate receipts. If the enforcement is we have to play behind closed doors, we are not a Welsh club, so we are not entitled to the financial support.

"The entire future of the club could be in doubt. There is no financial support for English clubs playing behind closed doors at the moment. It could be the end of the club."

Mr Morris said: "While acknowledging the border runs through the stadium, the club, for 30 years, has been treated as English with the registered address in England."

As you say, it is more likely Political than we could discuss.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 8, 2022)

Is anyone expecting any shocks in the FA Cup? 

I can see Hull getting at least a draw at home to Everton and the same for Swansea v Southampton. Other than those two I can't see where the upsets might come from.


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is anyone expecting any shocks in the FA Cup?

I can see Hull getting at least a draw at home to Everton and the same for Swansea v Southampton. Other than those two I can't see where the upsets might come from.
		
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one off games no replays with sides missing players (covid/afcon) in awful conditions, theres as good a chance as poss for upsets youd think, not that many fixtures look great for an upset though, lets hope theres a few. I guess burnley huddersfield and millwall palace possibles


Borehamwood to do a Wimbledon and knock out AFC Wimbledon?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is anyone expecting any shocks in the FA Cup?

I can see Hull getting at least a draw at home to Everton and the same for Swansea v Southampton. Other than those two I can't see where the upsets might come from.
		
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I can see Hull getting a win!


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## Hobbit (Jan 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is anyone expecting any shocks in the FA Cup?

I can see Hull getting at least a draw at home to Everton and the same for Swansea v Southampton. Other than those two I can't see where the upsets might come from.
		
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pauldj42 said:



			I can see Hull getting a win!

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I think the shock will be Everton winning…


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## pauljames87 (Jan 8, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			From the article;

"As the enforcing authorities Flintshire County Council and *North Wales Police are dealing with the matter*."

Despite the geographic conundrum, *matchday policing at the Deva Stadium is carried out by Cheshire Constabulary*.

These 2 paragraphs sum up just how ridiculous the situation has become.  I'd like to comment further but that would probably delve into the realm of political comment... 

Click to expand...

Hi this is the Welsh police we have crossed over to England to go through the gates in England to access the stands in Wales  ( appreciate this won't be what happens) but how utterly stupid 

Close your gates ...but their English gates ... Their allowed to open ..

Surely either allow them to open or finically support them..


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 8, 2022)

Oops.  Oh dear.


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 8, 2022)

Jeez; it's bad enough that Anthony Taylor fell for that, but to book the Palace player beggars belief.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Seaham have lost 4 of their last 5(?). Did West ever get their trophy back after the break in - they got to keep the original World Cup after winning it twice, the second time against Juventus.
		
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Lost 3-2, 2-1 up with 10 minutes to go, 3rd goal scored in 94 minute.


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## DaveR (Jan 8, 2022)

Looks like Eddie Howe has his work cut out.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is anyone expecting any shocks in the FA Cup?

I can see Hull getting at least a draw at home to Everton and the same for Swansea v Southampton. Other than those two I can't see where the upsets might come from.
		
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Definitely didn't see Cambridge winning at Newcastle. And a great result for Boreham Wood.


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## srixon 1 (Jan 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Definitely didn't see Cambridge winning at Newcastle. And a great result for Boreham Wood.
		
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The new owners of Newcastle must be crying, whilst Ashley is laughing his socks off. The fans must be absolutely gutted with the recent performances of their team.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Definitely didn't see Cambridge winning at Newcastle.
		
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You didn't? I'm not sure where your faith came from there 😄.

Not sure of the end result but Barnsley v Barrow was a blast. 4-4 last I heard. Barrow kept coming back again and again.


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			one off games no replays with sides missing players (covid/afcon) in awful conditions, theres as good a chance as poss for upsets youd think, not that many fixtures look great for an upset though, lets hope theres a few. I guess burnley huddersfield and millwall palace possibles


Borehamwood to do a Wimbledon and knock out AFC Wimbledon?
		
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got 2 out of 3 and millwall led against palace

west brom gave brighton a scare too

time for everton now


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## Tashyboy (Jan 8, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			The new owners of Newcastle must be crying, *whilst Ashley is laughing his socks off. *The fans must be absolutely gutted with the recent performances of their team.
		
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Wonder what the Derby fans think of his interest in there club.
What I find odd is the club is in debt so could go bust, so someone can come in with there own money and buy the club for say £50 million, but can they spend £50 million of there own money on players. How does FFP fit in with this 🤔


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Definitely didn't see Cambridge winning at Newcastle. And a great result for Boreham Wood.
		
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Kidderminster beating Reading as well!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)

😂😂😂


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## Slime (Jan 8, 2022)

Well, that didn't take long!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2022)

C’mon the Spireites!
Oops…🙄


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## Fade and Die (Jan 8, 2022)

How poor are Newcastle though, even Ironside scored against them today! 👨‍🦽


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)




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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)




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## Dando (Jan 8, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Got to say, looking forward to the fa Cup game tomorrow more than most PL games. Millwall away, a South London derby and bragging rights with friends and family up for grabs.

It will be a lively atmosphere as well, we've not played each other for a while and it's on TV.
		
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I watched about 20 mins of the game on tv and lost count of the number of times the commentators apologized for bad language from the fans


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## srixon 1 (Jan 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Wonder what the Derby fans think of his interest in there club.
What I find odd is the club is in debt so could go bust, so someone can come in with there own money and buy the club for say £50 million, but can they spend £50 million of there own money on players. How does FFP fit in with this 🤔
		
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I’m sure that there is some sort of fiddle or such like goes on so that the club can buy players using the owners money.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 8, 2022)

DaveR said:



			Looks like Eddie Howe has his work cut out.
		
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How strong a team did Newcastle and Burnley put out? I will have some fun with my Reading friends on Monday. Given where Newcastle and Burnley are, despite what the managers may say in public will they be happy to not have other distractions so they an try and get out of their PL predicaments


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Definitely didn't see Cambridge winning at Newcastle. And a great result for Boreham Wood.
		
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I think Newcastle had a better chance of beating them in the boat race.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)

Oops 😂😂


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2022)

thats a decent hit


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)

That could of been a red card!


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## Swango1980 (Jan 8, 2022)

Do refs not give penalties for handball anymore, and rely on VAR? Not a good tactic when they are referee in the FA Cup and there is no VAR.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Do refs not give penalties for handball anymore, and rely on VAR? Not a good tactic when they are referee in the FA Cup and there is no VAR.
		
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Not all FA cup ties have VAR. Some do some don't. Not sure how that is fair but there you go.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			How strong a team did Newcastle and Burnley put out? I will have some fun with my Reading friends on Monday. Given where Newcastle and Burnley are, despite what the managers may say in public will they be happy to not have other distractions so they an try and get out of their PL predicaments
		
Click to expand...

Newcastle fielded about as strong a team as they could. Just came up against an inspired keeper.

(and our own keeper Dubravka made yet another mistake....not been the same player since he came back from injury....been a bit of a liability)


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2022)

Kevin Friend about as good an example as can be for needing VAR lol


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not all FA cup ties have VAR. Some do some don't. Not sure how that is fair but there you go.
		
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how is it unfair? what happens in one game doesnt affect what happens in another. its inconsistent for sure, not sure how its unfair though


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			Kevin Friend about as good an example as can be for needing VAR lol
		
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He really is the worst referee in living memory, Everton on the end of some woeful decisions from him.


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## Jimaroid (Jan 8, 2022)

Friends is awful but the problem is there are still 11 blues worse than him on the pitch. 😢


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			He really is the worst referee in living memory, Everton on the end of some woeful decisions from him.
		
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good to hear one of the ITV comms say hes had a good game when hes got the 4 big decisions wrong too lol, mustnt criticise them sigh


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)




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## Swango1980 (Jan 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			good to hear one of the ITV comms say hes had a good game when hes got the 4 big decisions wrong too lol, mustnt criticise them sigh
		
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The game is on the BBC!


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The game is on the BBC!
		
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ok BBC comms then, you know what i mean


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2022)

Never in doubt!


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## Jimaroid (Jan 8, 2022)

Hull deserved more and should have come away from that match with the win, it was another pretty embarrassing and depressing display for us. It’s not Rafa, we have an accumulation of years and years of woeful management and directorship on the pitch. Half a billion quid and we can now only just scrape a win against a lower league team after 120 minutes and pure luck.

And on top of it all I’m trying to explain to the Mrs why, no, I can’t just support someone else. 😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 8, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Hull deserved more and should have come away from that match with the win, it was another pretty embarrassing and depressing display for us. It’s not Rafa, we have an accumulation of years and years of woeful management and directorship on the pitch. Half a billion quid and we can now only just scrape a win against a lower league team after 120 minutes and pure luck.

And on top of it all I’m trying to explain to the Mrs why, no, I can’t just support someone else. 😂
		
Click to expand...

Sections of the away crowd with banners against Benitez. Is he a marked man or is it a case of needing time to get rid of the dead wood and build his own side and will he get that time and money?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			ok BBC comms then, you know what i mean
		
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BBC and ITV may get different results on some websites.....I'm led to believe.


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## Bigfoot (Jan 8, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Kidderminster beating Reading as well!
		
Click to expand...

Now that was a good performance - from Harriers!

Reading were supposedly poor at the Hawthorns but this team did not have a shot in the second half today. They only had one on target in the first.


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## 4LEX (Jan 8, 2022)

Popped over to Wycombe v Sunderland today and what a game. Two excellent teams, rain lashing down, ball zipping off the pitch, packed home terrace and big away following at the other end. Proper football. Sunderland just about the better side, classy on the ball and a cracking striker in Stewart. Wycombe well drilled and not afraid to bombard the box. Both will go close to promotion IMO.


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## Jimaroid (Jan 9, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sections of the away crowd with banners against Benitez. Is he a marked man or is it a case of needing time to get rid of the dead wood and build his own side and will he get that time and money?
		
Click to expand...

I’ve no idea. I don’t think there is a manager on earth that can fix the problems we have because they have all been created and continue to be made worse by people in the board room filling the dressing room with expensive rubbish.

Yes we have a couple of good players but the idea that those few players, if fit, could see us do better is complete fantasy. The banner clowns are targeting the wrong people.


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## 3offTheTee (Jan 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You didn't? I'm not sure where your faith came from there 😄.

Not sure of the end result but Barnsley v Barrow was a blast. 4-4 last I heard. Barrow kept coming back again and again.
		
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Some for our Golf club went along with or neighbour. All the more ”unlucky” as Barra were down to 10 after 38 minutes


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

Var having a mare of offside rule 

For one where are the lines

Then for me Bowen is offside when vlasic hits it.. gets in keepers way but then is onside? Its just a cluster of a decision


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## Swango1980 (Jan 9, 2022)

Surely that West Ham goal was offside? Was he deemed not interfering with play?


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## BiMGuy (Jan 9, 2022)

Offside rules don’t apply to West Ham then?


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Offside rules don’t apply to West Ham then?
		
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I really don't understand how it's on side


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## BiMGuy (Jan 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I really don't understand how it's on side
		
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Not only that, but it looked like a potential foul on the Leeds keeper 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Surely that West Ham goal was offside? Was he deemed not interfering with play?
		
Click to expand...

Only thing I can think is he didn't stop keeper touching it ... But makes no sense


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Not only that, but it looked like a potential foul on the Leeds keeper 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

 Wouldn't have said that tho


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

Didn't understand the no pen for handball was it because they deemed Dawson touched with his arm onto the Leeds players arm?


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## BiMGuy (Jan 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Wouldn't have said that tho
		
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I’ve only just seen the replay. Looked like Bowen caught the keeper. He might not have.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I’ve only just seen the replay. Looked like Bowen caught the keeper. He might not have.
		
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Must say been a good game, good play from both teams


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## Slime (Jan 9, 2022)

Great dive ........................ 8/10.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 9, 2022)

How has the ref fallen for that dive 🤷🏼‍♂️. Both he and Vlasic should be embarrassed.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			How has the ref fallen for that dive 🤷🏼‍♂️. Both he and Vlasic should be embarrassed.
		
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He can cut that out, great play today but don't want the dives


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## BiMGuy (Jan 9, 2022)

Honestly, have West Ham been practicing diving and screaming? What happened to the simulation review panel that was set up a few years ago?


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Honestly, have West Ham been practicing diving and screaming? What happened to the simulation review panel that was set up a few years ago?
		
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Died a death when it was clear Liverpool wouldn't get a single pen


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Honestly, have West Ham been practicing diving and screaming? What happened to the simulation review panel that was set up a few years ago?
		
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Maybe vlasic not getting in team so long was. Because he loves a dive..


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

Harsh on Leeds at the end but happens when you press hard for an equaliser.. great finish by Bowen after selfless play from Antonio


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## Fade and Die (Jan 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Not only that, but it looked like a potential foul on the Leeds keeper 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
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Lol, if anything it was a penalty for the foul on Vlasic. So 🤷‍♂️
Pretty happy with the performance, Easy win in the end. Hope for same next weekend but expect a stiffer test.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 9, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Lol, if anything it was a penalty for the foul on Vlasic. So 🤷‍♂️
Pretty happy with the performance, Easy win in the end. Hope for same next weekend but expect a stiffer test.
		
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Is he the player with balance issue that kept falling over? He needs to se a doctor 😂


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Lol, if anything it was a penalty for the foul on Vlasic. So 🤷‍♂️
Pretty happy with the performance, Easy win in the end. Hope for same next weekend but expect a stiffer test.
		
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How many beers did you have? Never in a million years a foul for us lol


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 9, 2022)

Leicester have applied to the PL to have the rearranged fixture from Christmas due to be played Tuesday, at Everton, postponed again due to injuries and AFCON, last time it was Covid. Apparently they only have 8 outfield players fit.


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## Junior (Jan 9, 2022)

Anyone play Sunday league and short of a left back????.


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2022)

Junior said:



View attachment 40441


Anyone play Sunday league and short of a left back????.
		
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dunno about sunday league but arsenal chose to sub theres after half an hr in the cup


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## AmandaJR (Jan 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			dunno about sunday league but arsenal chose to sub theres after half an hr in the cup
		
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Thank goodness. He was having a shocker but everytime I heard his name my head went into "It only takes a minute..." then "Heaven, must be missing an angel..."


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## Hobbit (Jan 9, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Leicester have applied to the PL to have the rearranged fixture from Christmas due to be played Tuesday, at Everton, postponed again due to injuries and AFCON, last time it was Covid. Apparently they only have 8 outfield players fit.
		
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Losing players to the AFCON shouldn’t be part of a valid reason for postponement. Let them draft the kids in. Boro had kids in yesterday’s FA cup game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 9, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Leicester have applied to the PL to have the rearranged fixture from Christmas due to be played Tuesday, at Everton, postponed again due to injuries and AFCON, last time it was Covid. Apparently they only have 8 outfield players fit.
		
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I have no issues with injuries and covid but AFCON is irritating as an excuse. They knew it was coming, they should be prepared for it. Saying that, 8 players, hard to argue against that being postponed.

Edit: hadn't seen the above post before I wrote mine. Great minds etc 😄


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Thank goodness. He was having a shocker but everytime I heard his name my head went into "It only takes a minute..." then "Heaven, must be missing an angel..."
		
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youll enjoy it when he joins city in the summer then  (assuming you believe what so called footie journos write lol)


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## srixon 1 (Jan 9, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Leicester have applied to the PL to have the rearranged fixture from Christmas due to be played Tuesday, at Everton, postponed again due to injuries and AFCON, last time it was Covid. Apparently they only have 8 outfield players fit.
		
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If you don’t want to lose African players to the AFCON then don’t sign African players to your club. Simples.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 9, 2022)

That challenge by Martinelli was probably a very good example of the type of challenge people want to see a red card for. Intentionally wiped out the Forest player as he made a great run forwards


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## adam6177 (Jan 9, 2022)

Just got home from the west ham Leeds game.....Leeds really are missing a focal point upfront, I feel really sorry for them as they end up looking like quite a mediocre side but only because they don't hold the ball up or create much.

Also, my god is Dan James rubbish.... He's like a headless chicken. With no skill.


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## IanM (Jan 9, 2022)

Someone tell Arsenal the game kicked off some time ago

Absolutely stank the place out!  Can't wait to hear Wrighty lay into them


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2022)

well done forest, hard to argue they didnt deserve that, we were shocking, utterly atrocious. Samba cant have been as quiet in a game in the championships. Cook and Worrall were superb


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## Tashyboy (Jan 9, 2022)

Was that Arsenal playing Forest coz they played like Man Utd.


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## davidy233 (Jan 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			well done forest, hard to argue they didnt deserve that, we were shocking, utterly atrocious. Samba cant have been as quiet in a game in the championships. Cook and Worrall were superb  

Click to expand...

Saw the ball go into the net and thought I've photographed that guy - what a beard


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## pendodave (Jan 9, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Just got home from the west ham Leeds game.....Leeds really are missing a focal point upfront, I feel really sorry for them as they end up looking like quite a mediocre side but only because they don't hold the ball up or create much.

Also, my god is Dan James rubbish.... He's like a headless chicken. With no skill.
		
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Leeds really do seem to have a waffer-thin squad. After staying up for a year, you'd have thought they could have done a little judicious strengthening.
... Says a supporter of a team with literally one proper forward who has china hammies...

In other news. L'Arse ... Oh dear, how sad, never mind...


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2022)

davidy233 said:



			Saw the ball go into the net and thought I've photographed that guy - what a beard

View attachment 40444

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im a big Grabban fan, was pleasded they started Davis ahead of him haha

easy for the newspapers tomorrow anyway, smash and grabban gonna be used one thinks


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## davidy233 (Jan 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			im a big Grabban fan, was pleasded they started Davis ahead of him haha

easy for the newspapers tomorrow anyway, smash and grabban gonna be used one thinks
		
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Ha ha - I'm pleased for him too - I used to support Forest every couple of weeks in late 80s early 90s, saw them win a couple of League Cups and had a few other trips to Wembley with them - I'm a bit of a whore with English clubs though - I've lived a few places down south and supported a few local teams due to my mates being fans and my tagging along with them. 

Always wondered how I'd feel if I saw my team against one of the sides I'd watched a lot in England - the pic is from the first time that happened in Spain during pre-season two years ago - ended in a draw but I confirmed I didn't want the tricky trees to beat my team 

Been a while since I've heard the songs we used to sing - good to hear 'Mist rolling in from the Trent' ringing out at the end tonight.


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## Hobbit (Jan 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			well done forest, hard to argue they didnt deserve that, we were shocking, utterly atrocious. Samba cant have been as quiet in a game in the championships. Cook and Worrall were superb  

Click to expand...

Not looked at the team Arsenal had out but there were a number of players I didn’t recognise.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 9, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Leicester have applied to the PL to have the rearranged fixture from Christmas due to be played Tuesday, at Everton, postponed again due to injuries and AFCON, last time it was Covid. Apparently they only have 8 outfield players fit.
		
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Yup just been confirmed 👍


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2022)

That's my dream of a cup run gone. City away.


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Not looked at the team Arsenal had out but there were a number of players I didn’t recognise.
		
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arsenal had 10 first team squad players (4 regular starters) and the clubs current wonder kid as their starting XI, not at full strength but not that weak a side either

shows how bad some of the squad players are (yes Cedric im looking at you). the bigger issue is that most of the squad players dont fit the arteta system (very few do) so as soon as weakened in key positions the whole thing falls down like a deck of cards, and there is literally no plan B

the decision to loan Maitlin Niles (whos just played in Juve v Roma) out this week knowing Partey and Elneny are at the AFCON and Xhaka has Covid is typical ego Arteta sadly


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 9, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Losing players to the AFCON shouldn’t be part of a valid reason for postponement. Let them draft the kids in. Boro had kids in yesterday’s FA cup game.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			I have no issues with injuries and covid but AFCON is irritating as an excuse. They knew it was coming, they should be prepared for it. Saying that, 8 players, hard to argue against that being postponed.

Edit: hadn't seen the above post before I wrote mine. Great minds etc 😄
		
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Apparently they had 3-4 players make their debut yesterday in the Cup and any other season they would now be counted as first team players, but the PL brought in an exception this season that any young players making their debut in this years FA Cup would not be counted as part of the 13 needed to comply with PL rules.


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## BrianM (Jan 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			arsenal had 10 first team squad players (4 regular starters) and the clubs current wonder kid as their starting XI, not at full strength but not that weak a side either

shows how bad some of the squad players are (yes Cedric im looking at you). the bigger issue is that most of the squad players dont fit the arteta system (very few do) so as soon as weakened in key positions the whole thing falls down like a deck of cards, and there is literally no plan B

the decision to loan Maitlin Niles (whos just played in Juve v Roma) out this week knowing Partey and Elneny are at the AFCON and Xhaka has Covid is typical ego Arteta sadly
		
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That Maitland-Niles looked a decent player the few times I've seen him.
Was he not in a few England squads?


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2022)

BrianM said:



			That Maitland-Niles looked a decent player the few times I've seen him.
Was he not in a few England squads?
		
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Yep 

Long running saga, Arsenal wanted him to play RB he wanted to play CM, been several clashes with Arteta. Was convinced to stay in the summer (wolves/everton made an offer i think), played great last time he played and not been seen for the few months since

He divides the arsenal fans, some love him and think hes been badly treated, some think hes not good enough. The truth is probably part of both but we have no central midfield for most of january and I expect his loan fee doesnt cover the loss of revenue losing in the 3rd round of the cup


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## Fade and Die (Jan 9, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Leeds really do seem to have a waffer-thin squad. After staying up for a year, you'd have thought they could have done a little judicious strengthening.
... Says a supporter of a team with literally one proper forward who has china hammies...

In other news. L'Arse ... Oh dear, how sad, never mind...
		
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On the plus side we seem to have got Arsenals ball. Kidderminster Harriers! 
That’ll be one for the telly ,giant killers and the the usual cobblers. 😁


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## pendodave (Jan 9, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			On the plus side we seem to have got Arsenals ball. Kidderminster Harriers!
That’ll be one for the telly ,giant killers and the the usual cobblers. 😁
		
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We're better than we used to be against this sort of oppo...
But I can't pretend I'm not just a little fearful.
I was at work today, and just catching up with the game on the KUMB forum. Heartened to see how ashamed everyone is of Vlacic's balance problems.
Though ironically, he stayed on his feet for our first goal when he was being dragged to the ground. So theres still hope for him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 9, 2022)

pendodave said:



			We're better than we used to be against this sort of oppo...
But I can't pretend I'm not just a little fearful.
I was at work today, and just catching up with the game on the KUMB forum. Heartened to see how ashamed everyone is of Vlacic's balance problems.
Though ironically, he stayed on his feet for our first goal when he was being dragged to the ground. So theres still hope for him.
		
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Had real hopes for him when he signed for Everton, just too inconsistent at the time, probably to do with age, but on his day he’s a fantastic talent, the falling over seems to raise it’s head when he’s either frustrated with some of the decisions go against him or doesn’t get a good run of games.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

Jurgen Klopp says a Covid outbreak that led to the postponement of Liverpool's Carabao Cup semi-final against Arsenal had "a lot of false positives".


Of course


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Jurgen Klopp says a Covid outbreak that led to the postponement of Liverpool's Carabao Cup semi-final against Arsenal had "a lot of false positives".


Of course



View attachment 40445

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pauljames87 said:



			Died a death when it was clear Liverpool wouldn't get a single pen
		
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😂😂😂

Blimey - they must live in your head , not even a rival


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## pauljames87 (Jan 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂😂

Blimey - they must live in your head , not even a rival
		
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They? Not even we? Mask slipping neverbeentoliverpoolphil


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 9, 2022)

*Draw in full*
Crystal Palace v Hartlepool United

Bournemouth v Boreham Wood

Huddersfield Town v Barnsley

Peterborough United v Queens Park Rangers

Cambridge United v Luton Town

Southampton v Coventry City

Chelsea v Plymouth Argyle

Everton v Brentford

Kidderminster Harriers v West Ham United

Manchester United/Aston Villa v Middlesbrough

Tottenham Hotspur v Brighton and Hove Albion

Liverpool v Cardiff City

Stoke City v Wigan Athletic

Nottingham Forest v Leicester City

Manchester City v Fulham 

Wolverhampton Wanderers v Norwich City



Some juicy ties and potentially some big upsets

Think the Chelsea , Kidderminster and Palace matches will be on


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## fundy (Jan 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Draw in full*
Crystal Palace v Hartlepool United

Bournemouth v Boreham Wood

Huddersfield Town v Barnsley

Peterborough United v Queens Park Rangers

Cambridge United v Luton Town

Southampton v Coventry City

Chelsea v Plymouth Argyle

Everton v Brentford

Kidderminster Harriers v West Ham United

Manchester United/Aston Villa v Middlesbrough

Tottenham Hotspur v Brighton and Hove Albion

Liverpool v Cardiff City

Stoke City v Wigan Athletic

Nottingham Forest v Leicester City

Manchester City v Fulham

Wolverhampton Wanderers v Norwich City



Some juicy ties and potentially some big upsets

Think the Chelsea , Kidderminster and Palace matches will be on
		
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nope still cant see our game


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			nope still cant see our game 

Click to expand...

Beach football in Dubai that week 😄 (I know,  I know, it could have been us, likely to be us next round 😂)


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2022)

Tempted to go to the Etihad to see the drubbing. A ground I've not been to yet.


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## Slime (Jan 9, 2022)

Norwich City supporters singing 'Let's Pretend We Scored a Goal'.


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## Captainron (Jan 10, 2022)

Been watching a bit of the African Cup of Nations as it’s on in the day and I have it in the background while working. Morocco v Ghana on at the moment. 

Standard of football is appalling. It’s absolutely dismal. I honestly think none of these teams would make it in Division 1 in England.


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## Dando (Jan 10, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Been watching a bit of the African Cup of Nations as it’s on in the day and I have it in the background while working. Morocco v Ghana on at the moment.

Standard of football is appalling. It’s absolutely dismal. I honestly think none of these teams would make it in Division 1 in England.
		
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must be like watching Arsenal V Man u


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Norwich City supporters singing 'Let's Pretend We Scored a Goal'.







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Priceless, absolutely priceless.


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## Slime (Jan 10, 2022)




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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2022)

If United go on a cup run won't it merely paper over the cracks even more? Good header. Is Ronaldo rested?


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 40458

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Has the squirrel been sacked?


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## Fade and Die (Jan 10, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Has the squirrel been sacked?
		
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Just rotated. Gotta keep all the ego’s happy.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If United go on a cup run won't it merely paper over the cracks even more? Good header. Is Ronaldo rested?
		
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Any win will always paper of the cracks at United, as we all know they exist. To be honest, any team that goes on a cup run will usually have their cracks papered over if they are underperforming in the league.

Ronaldo is injured.


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## Slime (Jan 10, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Has the squirrel been sacked?
		
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No, merely kidnapped, last seen in Hull!
I can't give you details of the hostage demands, but I'm expecting them back soon!
I've trained up a few reserves as emergency backup.


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## paddyc (Jan 10, 2022)

Had to turn the commentary off. Cannot take anymore of Dion Dublin. He just doesn't  stop talking (most of it nonsense)Driving me up the wall Guy Mowbray the Commentator can hardly get a word in.


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## Slime (Jan 10, 2022)




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## Slime (Jan 10, 2022)

Ooh, he's being called over ........................ I think we know what that means.


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## Slime (Jan 10, 2022)

Phew!


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## fundy (Jan 10, 2022)

VAR at it again lol, joke


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## Swango1980 (Jan 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Ooh, he's being called over ........................ I think we know what that means.
		
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Correct decision in end, but why o why spend an age looking at all the marginal potential offside after the obvious one?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 10, 2022)

Slippy just getting ready for the big fist pumps aswell 😂😂😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Jan 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			VAR at it again lol, joke
		
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At least it was correct this time, just ridiculously long


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## Slime (Jan 10, 2022)

Lindelof is like a badly wired plug.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Lindelof is a ticking time bomb.
		
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Lindelof is shocking. Is Jones injured already, he was maybe worth a start?

Lingard must be atrocious in training, I thought he'd be worth a chance as well. United have no midfield whatsoever. McTomminay and Fred are just dragged back with the centre backs.


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## Billysboots (Jan 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Lindelof is like a badly wired plug.
		
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Lindelöf is way too lightweight to play in this country. He gets muscled off the ball time and time again, every game. I can only assume Jones is being eased back having been absent for so long because he deserves another start.

As I type I have just watched Marcus Rashford turn his back on a loose ball in the Villa penalty area. He may not have got there first, but never even tried. Of all his failings in recent times, I never thought I would ever see a player simply give up in that manner. Please, please, get him as far away from this side as possible. He’s beyond awful.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 10, 2022)

I’ve never seen a more disjointed Utd,I haven’t got a clue what instructions they have been given.
Bruno is just headless and brainless chasing lost causes.
We are so open through midfield it’s scary.


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## IanM (Jan 10, 2022)

Villa getting robbed here 😳


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## Slime (Jan 10, 2022)

IanM said:



			Villa getting robbed here 😳
		
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According to the BBC website, United have had 6 shots, 4 on target.
Villa have had 3 shots with 2 on target!
Which game are they watching?


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## IanM (Jan 10, 2022)

The bloke keying the stats is on his phone looking at Facebook


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## Billysboots (Jan 10, 2022)

IanM said:



			The bloke keying the stats is on his phone looking at Facebook
		
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He’s probably having more fun than anyone watching this turgid dross.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 10, 2022)

IanM said:



			The bloke keying the stats is on his phone looking at Facebook
		
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I think they are including the 4 times Greenwood passed the ball to Martinez


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## Slime (Jan 10, 2022)

Well ................................... we're through to the next round.


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## Billysboots (Jan 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Well ................................... we're through to the next round.
		
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With the ignominy of a home defeat to Middlesbrough now on the cards. This season can end now for me. United are such a difficult watch these days.


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## Slime (Jan 10, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			With the ignominy of a home defeat to Middlesbrough now on the cards. This season can end now for me. United are such a difficult watch these days.
		
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Do I assume you're not watching them again?
I often feel like that but am inevitably excited next time they play ................................ just in case!


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## Hobbit (Jan 10, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			With the ignominy of a home defeat to Middlesbrough now on the cards. This season can end now for me. United are such a difficult watch these days.
		
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Wilder has achieved plenty in the last 6 weeks. Great to watch going forward. However, for all your concerns, I can’t see Middlesbrough playing well enough at OT.


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## 4LEX (Jan 10, 2022)

IanM said:



			Villa getting robbed here 😳
		
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Villa were robbed, that was never a clear and obvious mistake for the VAR goal. Cavani wasn't getting near that ball and crumpled to the deck. And he was the defending player! VAR checked first for offside, then handball and eventually found something to scrub the goal off with. 

One of the worst games I've seen all season, Utd were tragically awful. That said in the first half it was the most chances I've seen them create for months. Villa zipped it around well but I think Gerrard will get shot of Taggart who is hopeless. Digne will be a huge upgrade. Bailey fit and Coutinho in that side will be very interesting.


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## 4LEX (Jan 10, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Been watching a bit of the African Cup of Nations as it’s on in the day and I have it in the background while working. Morocco v Ghana on at the moment.

Standard of football is appalling. It’s absolutely dismal. I honestly think none of these teams would make it in Division 1 in England.
		
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Still better than the Women's Super League by a billion miles though.


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## Billysboots (Jan 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			Do I assume you're not watching them again?
I often feel like that but am inevitably excited next time they play ................................ just in case!
		
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I’ll still watch - I’m a glutton for punishment!


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## Billysboots (Jan 11, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Wilder has achieved plenty in the last 6 weeks. Great to watch going forward. However, for all your concerns, I can’t see Middlesbrough playing well enough at OT.
		
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Alas, I’m not sure my shower will play well enough either. They are currently as bad as at any time since 2013.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 11, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Villa were robbed, that was never a clear and obvious mistake for the VAR goal. Cavani wasn't getting near that ball and crumpled to the deck. And he was the defending player! VAR checked first for offside, then handball and eventually found something to scrub the goal off with.

One of the worst games I've seen all season, Utd were tragically awful. That said in the first half it was the most chances I've seen them create for months. Villa zipped it around well but I think Gerrard will get shot of Taggart who is hopeless. Digne will be a huge upgrade. Bailey fit and Coutinho in that side will be very interesting.
		
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Villa were robbed as they were the better side. However, their disallowed goal was the correct decision, albeit the officials made a meal of it. I don't even know if they didallowed it for the correct reason?

The Villa player was clearly in an offside position. Although that is not an offence in itself, it is if they become involved in the play, interfere with an opponent or gain their team an advantage. Well, he clearly interfered with Cavani (it doesn't even have to be a foul for this to be the case). Cavani was running directly back to goal. He might have cut out 1st ball, or been able to cut out ball hit back across goal. We'll never know, as the offside player stopped his run.

What confused me is how the officials dealt with it. They looked an age checking for minute offside decisions after than incident, to only finally go back to Cavani. Then, they asked the ref to review it on the monitor. That seemed to imply they were scratching the goal off for a foul, rather than offside. However, had the Villa player been onside, I don't agree it was a foul. The only potential credit I'd give to the on field ref was that, when he explained why goal was disallowed to Villa player, his hand gestures did seem to suggest the player was coming back from offside position, which was the correct call. 

Rashford needs time away from football to sort his head out. His mentality is shocking. And Utd need to figure out a way in which they can actually play with a midfield.


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## Junior (Jan 11, 2022)

Utds performance  in the first 15 minutes and last 15 minutes of the first half was actually promising.  Created chances and attacked with pace.  Rashford had his best half this season and with Greenwood on the right and Cavani and throught the middle we looked dangerous.   Most impressive though was the commitment, work rate and passion from the players.

Varane looked like the player he can be throughout but Lindleoff was a duck out of water.  Lack of game time maybe but get Bailly in there ASAP .

2nd half something went wrong for Utd, but credit to Villa they played Utd off the park for the first 35 minutes of the 2nd half.  Very impressed with McGinn, Ramsey and Cash.  Utd lost all organisation and were very lucky to get over the line.  I was relieved when Ramsey went off for El Ghazi.  It seemed to slow the attacks down somewhat.  Thought the goal should have been disallowed for the body check on Cavani.  Whether he'd have got their or not, a body check is a body check, even off the ball. 

Utd still giving the ball away far too much (Lindleoff, Fred and Rashford)  Long floaty passes that are easy for defenders because no one is available for the short easy ball.   Still think RR will clear out the egos and build from there.

Despite another poor performance the crowd were in good spirits and there was a buzz about the place.   DVB reception when he came on was huge.   He's got something and the fans know it.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Villa were robbed as they were the better side. However, their disallowed goal was the correct decision, albeit the officials made a meal of it. I don't even know if they didallowed it for the correct reason?

The Villa player was clearly in an offside position. Although that is not an offence in itself, it is if they become involved in the play, interfere with an opponent or gain their team an advantage. Well, he clearly interfered with Cavani (it doesn't even have to be a foul for this to be the case). Cavani was running directly back to goal. He might have cut out 1st ball, or been able to cut out ball hit back across goal. We'll never know, as the offside player stopped his run.

What confused me is how the officials dealt with it. They looked an age checking for minute offside decisions after than incident, to only finally go back to Cavani. Then, they asked the ref to review it on the monitor. That seemed to imply they were scratching the goal off for a foul, rather than offside. However, had the Villa player been onside, I don't agree it was a foul. The only potential credit I'd give to the on field ref was that, when he explained why goal was disallowed to Villa player, his hand gestures did seem to suggest the player was coming back from offside position, which was the correct call.

Rashford needs time away from football to sort his head out. His mentality is shocking. And Utd need to figure out a way in which they can actually play with a midfield.
		
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Rashford has done a lot of good over the the pandemic and I do wonder if that pen miss in the euros after being on such a high of things going well has had a big affect on him. He hasn't looked the same since no?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Rashford has done a lot of good over the the pandemic and I do wonder if that pen miss in the euros after being on such a high of things going well has had a big affect on him. He hasn't looked the same since no?
		
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Who knows? Has his off field work been a distraction, or put him under more pressure on the field? His form dipped before Euro's, hence not getting any real playing time in that tournament. However, Southgate's appalling decision to bring him on for penalty shootout, and him then missing, has probably been no help at all to him.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who knows? Has his off field work been a distraction, or put him under more pressure on the field? His form dipped before Euro's, hence not getting any real playing time in that tournament. However, Southgate's appalling decision to bring him on for penalty shootout, and him then missing, has probably been no help at all to him.
		
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Agreed before that his form dropped however pen goes in and we win or whatever massive boost in confidence prob would feel top of the world 

Miss.. can have all kind of affects on people


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## Swango1980 (Jan 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Agreed before that his form dropped however pen goes in and we win or whatever massive boost in confidence prob would feel top of the world

Miss.. can have all kind of affects on people
		
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That's the thing though, had he scored (and England won), would he have felt top of the world? Unless his mindset is like John Terry, I doubt it. Despite scoring, he will still always be aware that he was not trusted to represent England throughout the tournament. He'd probably feel a little bit of a fraud for enjoying England's success amongst many of his team mates, who played in the majority of games and got them to the final in the first place. And, no doubt sections of opposition club fans would remind him of that every now and then. So, scoring would have felt great in the moment, but I don't think it would have had any medium or long term beneficial impact on having a positive mentality. And, of course, if he misses as he did, it feels much worse for him than it does if he'd missed but also been an important player in the tournament overall (at least he'd have had that to be proud of). Not just Rashford, how has it impacted on Sancho as well?


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## pauljames87 (Jan 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That's the thing though, had he scored (and England won), would he have felt top of the world? Unless his mindset is like John Terry, I doubt it. Despite scoring, he will still always be aware that he was not trusted to represent England throughout the tournament. He'd probably feel a little bit of a fraud for enjoying England's success amongst many of his team mates, who played in the majority of games and got them to the final in the first place. And, no doubt sections of opposition club fans would remind him of that every now and then. So, scoring would have felt great in the moment, but I don't think it would have had any medium or long term beneficial impact on having a positive mentality. And, of course, if he misses as he did, it feels much worse for him than it does if he'd missed but also been an important player in the tournament overall (at least he'd have had that to be proud of). Not just Rashford, how has it impacted on Sancho as well?
		
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I would say its impacted both of them

rashford is the only one I actually blamed in the pen shoot out.. the rest worked the keeper... forced him to make a save but rashford? did the hard work .. sent the keeper the wrong way and then missed? come on..

not that it matters ofc, however I think regardless of who you are you would feel top of the world because england have historically failed in major tournaments since 1966.. they would be part of history... beating beckham... terry... gerrard.. lampard.. all legends who could push us over the line


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## Bdill93 (Jan 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That's the thing though, had he scored (and England won), would he have felt top of the world? Unless his mindset is like John Terry, I doubt it. Despite scoring, he will still always be aware that he was not trusted to represent England throughout the tournament. He'd probably feel a little bit of a fraud for enjoying England's success amongst many of his team mates, who played in the majority of games and got them to the final in the first place. And, no doubt sections of opposition club fans would remind him of that every now and then. So, scoring would have felt great in the moment, but I don't think it would have had any medium or long term beneficial impact on having a positive mentality. And, of course, if he misses as he did, it feels much worse for him than it does if he'd missed but also been an important player in the tournament overall (at least he'd have had that to be proud of). Not just Rashford, how has it impacted on Sancho as well?
		
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Rashford is clearly a good player, but im not sure hes ever proved to be as good as he is claimed to be. I dont think the other top 3 sides take him. Clear to see he isnt there mentally with it all, someone needs to put the enjoyment of football back into him.

Greenwood is fast becoming Rashford V2. Promise but no real improvement. 

Sancho? Didnt realise he was a united player?! Does he ever make the field?  But again - maybe he too is struggling mentally. That or the bundesliga made him look better than he is - but I dont believe that! 

Lots of well payed dudes who arent earning their money at present.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who knows? Has his off field work been a distraction, or put him under more pressure on the field? His form dipped before Euro's, hence not getting any real playing time in that tournament. However, Southgate's appalling decision to bring him on for penalty shootout, and him then missing, has probably been no help at all to him.
		
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Rashford has always been average. It was ignored when he first got into the first team as ManU could say he ‘has potential’. He’s not improved over the years and is living on false past glory.

He needed a decent manager to coach the best out of him. Unfortunately it’s likely too late now.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 11, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Rashford has always been average. It was ignored when he first got into the first team as ManU could say he ‘has potential’. He’s not improved over the years and is living on false past glory.

He needed a decent manager to coach the best out of him. Unfortunately it’s likely too late now.
		
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Totally agree.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



*Rashford is clearly a good player, but im not sure hes ever proved to be as good as he is claimed to be. I dont think the other top 3 sides take him. Clear to see he isnt there mentally with it all, someone needs to put the enjoyment of football back into him.

Greenwood is fast becoming Rashford V2. Promise but no real improvement.*

Sancho? Didnt realise he was a united player?! Does he ever make the field?  But again - maybe he too is struggling mentally. That or the bundesliga made him look better than he is - but I dont believe that!

Lots of well payed dudes who arent earning their money at present.
		
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Completely agree.

I always think Rashford has / had so much potential. He has the build, strength and speed, and even shows some good skill. But then it all falls apart. He almost has no clue when to shoot, or when to pass, and often he does neither. So, all the positive traits mean absolutely nothing. He is not aggressive in winning back the ball. He'll duck out of challenges, or do a fake jump to win a header and miss it (it is obvious he never intended to win the header, he just wanted to make it look like he did). He just does not seem to have the mentality to make it as a top level footballer.

And, it is hard to say Greenwood is not going in the same direction.

I've not seen a lot of Elanga. But, honestly, when he came on last night, he actually brought life back into the supporters. He was positive. He jumped aggressively for balls, and won headers. Phil Jones did the same last week. If all United's players showed that determination and desire, United would be such a different side. Opposition would at least know they are in for a battle. However, too many of United's regulars are a soft touch. They are not up for the physical battle, and just assume their quality (on paper) should win them matches.


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## Slime (Jan 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I would say its impacted both of them

rashford is the only one I actually blamed in the pen shoot out.. the rest worked the keeper... forced him to make a save but rashford? did the hard work .. sent the keeper the wrong way and then missed? come on..

not that it matters ofc, however I think regardless of who you are you would feel top of the world because england have historically failed in major tournaments since 1966.. they would be part of history... *beating beckham... terry... gerrard.. lampard.. all legends who could push us over the line*

Click to expand...

Although none of them actually did push us over the line!
Between them, they won nothing.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 11, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Villa were robbed, that was never a clear and obvious mistake for the VAR goal. .
		
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It is plain that the "Clear and Obvious" aspect of VAR reviews was pretty much discarded from day one and slide rule precision has been the driver. Might as well cut footballs throat and let it bleed to death by the side of the road.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2022)

Rashford will undoubtedly come back to form at some stage,RR said he has been showing form in training.
I suspect then Sancho,VDB and Lingard obviously haven’t.
Watching VDB last night when he came on he did absolutely nothing,he either needs a run in the side or let him go.
I presume Lingard is going to be sold,he must be,otherwise play him.
Sancho is currently up there with Pepe of Arsenal to an expensive mistake.
Bruno god he’s gone headless chasing lost causes and losing our shape in the middle leaving McTomminey and Fred exposed.
Really don’t like RR way of setting us up we are just way to open for the counter.
Villa deserved something out the game for sure.
How Var missed a clear offside and resorted back to a foul is just baffling.
And 3 minutes to do it,shambolic.


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## Beezerk (Jan 11, 2022)

😂


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## Jensen (Jan 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



View attachment 40470


😂
		
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In ALL fairness, he did say he likes a challenge…..


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## Cherry13 (Jan 11, 2022)

Jensen said:



			In ALL fairness, he did say he likes a challenge…..
		
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Apparantly Chris wood is having a medical. Not sure what to make of it really. Don’t know if it’s a worse indictment of us, or Burnley.  Have they given up? Are we just planning for next season in championship?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 11, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			Apparantly Chris wood is having a medical. Not sure what to make of it really. Don’t know if it’s a worse indictment of us, or Burnley.  Have they given up? Are we just planning for next season in championship?
		
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He has a release clause according to Sky that you have met. Burnley had no choice in the end.

A solid, if unspectacular buy. He won't need time to get up to speed, instantly ready for the PL.


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## Beezerk (Jan 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He has a release clause according to Sky that you have met. Burnley had no choice in the end.

A solid, if unspectacular buy. He won't need time to get up to speed, instantly ready for the PL.
		
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Weakens the direct competition as well.


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## Orikoru (Jan 12, 2022)

Maybe the Toon should bring back Big Andy, he's looking sharp.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481003750726717441


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Maybe the Toon should bring back Big Andy, he's looking sharp.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481003750726717441

Click to expand...

According to the Reading fans at the golf club who go regularly he's been phoning it in a bit and so these represent nothing more than a passing glimpse of what he could be offering. Strangely no-one is replying to my texts and whatsapp messages


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## Neilds (Jan 12, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He has a release clause according to Sky that you have met. Burnley had no choice in the end.

A solid, if unspectacular buy. He won't need time to get up to speed, instantly ready for the PL.
		
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£25 Million for a striker who has scored 3 goals all season - Burnley must be laughing their heads off!!  As well as the agent who has got his cut sorted!


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## Bdill93 (Jan 12, 2022)

Digne set to be announced soon.

El Ghazi apparently moving the other way

Wonder what else Villa will do this Jan!


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## Orikoru (Jan 12, 2022)

Neilds said:



			£25 Million for a striker who has scored *3 goals all season - Burnley must be laughing their heads off!!*  As well as the agent who has got his cut sorted!
		
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That is nearly 19% of their overall total to be fair, so maybe not.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 12, 2022)

Well, there is a lot of moaning about officials in the Premier League. Well, spare a thought for African fans watching the African Cup of Nations.

Mali beat Tunisia 1-0. However, the referee blew for full-time in the 85th minute. He was corrected. However, he then blew for full-time again in the 89th minute. The game was over at that point, even though (after 90 minutes complete, which were not), a decent amount of additional time was expected due to the usual (VAR, injuries, etc). After the post-match press conference had started, tournament organisers ordered the game to be played to a conclusion. However, Tunisia did not return to the field, so Mali declared winners.

I'll await Dermot Gallagher's defence of the referee.


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## Orikoru (Jan 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, there is a lot of moaning about officials in the Premier League. Well, spare a thought for African fans watching the African Cup of Nations.

Mali beat Tunisia 1-0. However, the referee blew for full-time in the 85th minute. He was corrected. However, he then blew for full-time again in the 89th minute. The game was over at that point, even though (after 90 minutes complete, which were not), a decent amount of additional time was expected due to the usual (VAR, injuries, etc). After the post-match press conference had started, tournament organisers ordered the game to be played to a conclusion. However, Tunisia did not return to the field, so Mali declared winners.

I'll await Dermot Gallagher's defence of the referee.
		
Click to expand...

The referee obviously had somewhere important to be. We had a Sunday League ref play 42 minute halves once so he could rush off and pick up his son from another game - we would never have known if it wasn't for the fact that someone was videoing the game for the other team and it had a timestamp.  You don't really expect it at international level...


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 12, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Digne set to be announced soon.

El Ghazi apparently moving the other way

Wonder what else Villa will do this Jan!
		
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What's the score with El Ghazi? What does he bring, what do you think of him?


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## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2022)

Neilds said:



			£25 Million for a striker who has scored 3 goals all season - Burnley must be laughing their heads off!!  As well as the agent who has got his cut sorted!
		
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The richest club in the world?
Not impressed with their signings so far.
Can’t believe they have bought Woods.


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## DaveR (Jan 12, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			According to the Reading fans at the golf club who go regularly he's been phoning it in a bit and so these represent nothing more than a passing glimpse of what he could be offering. Strangely no-one is replying to my texts and whatsapp messages
		
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They probably gave you false numbers 😉


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			That is nearly 19% of their overall total to be fair, so maybe not.
		
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Spoke to my ward clerk at work and she is apoplectic at the news. Burnley have some real injury problems with strikers and he was virtually last man standing so to flog him to a relegation rival makes no sense. They are struggling for goals as it is. Think Burnley are now


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 12, 2022)

DaveR said:



			They probably gave you false numbers 😉
		
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No. Were all happy to ping texts when they beat us earlier in the season so I know the numbers work. Have to do it in person at the golf club over the weekend


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 12, 2022)

Two penalties overturned. Not going to make any difference but good to see VAR overturn two poor decisions, especially the second


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## Orikoru (Jan 12, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Spoke to my ward clerk at work and she is apoplectic at the news. Burnley have some real injury problems with strikers and he was virtually last man standing so to flog him to a relegation rival makes no sense. They are struggling for goals as it is. Think Burnley are now
		
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I thought I heard he had a release clause for that amount so they would have been powerless, possibly.


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## DaveR (Jan 12, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No. Were all happy to ping texts when they beat us earlier in the season so I know the numbers work. Have to do it in person at the golf club over the weekend
		
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Just a bit of bantz,  I know how you love that 😉


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## Beezerk (Jan 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The referee obviously had somewhere important to be. We had a Sunday League ref play 42 minute halves once so he could rush off and pick up his son from another game - we would never have known if it wasn't for the fact that someone was videoing the game for the other team and it had a timestamp.  You don't really expect it at international level...
		
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The other week we played 90 minutes (40 minutes each half in over 40s) as the ref said his watch had stopped halfway through the 2nd half 😂


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## Captainron (Jan 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, there is a lot of moaning about officials in the Premier League. Well, spare a thought for African fans watching the African Cup of Nations.

Mali beat Tunisia 1-0. However, the referee blew for full-time in the 85th minute. He was corrected. However, he then blew for full-time again in the 89th minute. The game was over at that point, even though (after 90 minutes complete, which were not), a decent amount of additional time was expected due to the usual (VAR, injuries, etc). After the post-match press conference had started, tournament organisers ordered the game to be played to a conclusion. However, Tunisia did not return to the field, so Mali declared winners.

I'll await Dermot Gallagher's defence of the referee.
		
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That whole competition is a shambles. 

Pity that this rubbish happens every 2 years? Ridiculous


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## pauljames87 (Jan 13, 2022)

Mad one in the norwich game last night

keeper at a corner had Vlasic round the face with his glove pulling him down.. nothing given...

just mental




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## Billysboots (Jan 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			The richest club in the world?
Not impressed with their signings so far.
Can’t believe they have bought Woods.
		
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One of my best golfing mates is a Newcastle fan and he has been left slack jawed by this signing. Woods is neither a signing for the future, nor is he what the club needs to keep them in the Premier League. Absolutely mystifying piece of transfer business.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			One of my best golfing mates is a Newcastle fan and he has been left slack jawed by this signing. Woods is neither a signing for the future, nor is he what the club needs to keep them in the Premier League. Absolutely mystifying piece of transfer business.
		
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The only thing I can think of is players don’t want to go there .
The money might be great but the top players really don’t need it that much.
They club are in a catch 22 atm
But Woods is a strange one.


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## Hobbit (Jan 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			One of my best golfing mates is a Newcastle fan and he has been left slack jawed by this signing. Woods is neither a signing for the future, nor is he what the club needs to keep them in the Premier League. Absolutely mystifying piece of transfer business.
		
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I can’t see many, if any, out and out top class signings joining Newcastle in this window. Who would be first to join a club that looks like a very strong possibility for relegation? Put a clause in the contract that says they would be sold for 80% of the buying-in fee, if relegated, and there might be a better chance of bringing someone decent in.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			One of my best golfing mates is a Newcastle fan and he has been left slack jawed by this signing. Woods is neither a signing for the future, nor is he what the club needs to keep them in the Premier League. Absolutely mystifying piece of transfer business.
		
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I see it as the same as when we signed snodgrass.. it weakened a relegation rival (hull who went down)

he became an useful squad player but nothing more


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## Bdill93 (Jan 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What's the score with El Ghazi? What does he bring, what do you think of him?
		
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Average prem player.

Wont set the world alight - wont be awful at the price you pay!

Hard worker who we owe a lot of thanks to - we wouldnt have come up without him. 

Interesting stat I read yesterday - No one scored more goals for AVFC under Dean Smith than Anwar!


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## Swango1980 (Jan 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The only thing I can think of is players don’t want to go there .
The money might be great but the top players really don’t need it that much.
They club are in a catch 22 atm
But Woods is a strange one.
		
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I don't suppose top class strikers are wanting to go to Newcastle at the moment, in the position they are in AND the fact many clubs will not let good strikers leave mid season. So, perhaps Newcastle simply believe they need a recognised striker in now, with Wilson out for 8 weeks?

I'm not sure Wood is a terrible choice really? For Burnley, he scores a goal every 2.9 games. Not fantastic I know, but he does play for Burnley, one of the most boring teams to ever grace the Premier League. Wilson scored a goal every 2.8 games at Bournemouth, although that has improved to a goal every 2.3 games at Newcastle. Wilson seems to be liked by the Newcastle fans, and he isn't that much more prolific than Wood. If Newcastle can keep some clean sheets, and Wood gets even 5 or 6 goals in narrow 1-0 / 2-1 wins, it could just be enough to keep them up.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			One of my best golfing mates is a Newcastle fan and he has been left slack jawed by this signing. Woods is neither a signing for the future, nor is he what the club needs to keep them in the Premier League. Absolutely mystifying piece of transfer business.
		
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Hes a good championship striker though I bet - so deffo one for the future!


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## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			One of my best golfing mates is a Newcastle fan and he has been left slack jawed by this signing. *Woods is neither a signing for the future*, nor is he what the club needs to keep them in the Premier League. Absolutely mystifying piece of transfer business.
		
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What do you mean? He has a really good record in the Championship.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 13, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Average prem player.

Wont set the world alight - wont be awful at the price you pay!

Hard worker who we owe a lot of thanks to - we wouldnt have come up without him.

Interesting stat I read yesterday - No one scored more goals for AVFC under Dean Smith than Anwar!
		
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we have been linked with him.. would welcome as an option with antonio 

very impressed with your transfer window.. two proven prem class players.. not a lot of spend

second half season push for europa incoming


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## pauljames87 (Jan 13, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			What do you mean? He has a really good record in the Championship.
		
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he really isnt as bad as people make out

antonio is hailed as a decent striker.. lets say its his 3rd season as a striker now

28 goals in that time (28 in 69)

woods 29 in same time (29 in 82)

bearing in mind he plays in a team that struggles for goals aswell


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			One of my best golfing mates is a Newcastle fan and he has been left slack jawed by this signing. Woods is neither a signing for the future, nor is he what the club needs to keep them in the Premier League. Absolutely mystifying piece of transfer business.
		
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I'm going to be at the game on Saturday against Watford so it will be interesting to see how he fares in the team. Surely he will get more support than in a Dyche Burnley though? If he scores enough goals, creates enough penalty box mayhem, to keep them up then it is £20m well spent. Next year he can either be a back up or they can sell him on for £10-12m. The money doesn't matter to Newcastle but it would not matter to any club if they stay up.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			we have been linked with him.. would welcome as an option with antonio

very impressed with your transfer window.. two proven prem class players.. not a lot of spend

second half season push for europa incoming
		
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I think we have all been impressed too - and im not sure we are done yet!


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## Billysboots (Jan 13, 2022)

I agree no top striker will want a permanent move to Newcastle during this transfer window, which is why I fully expected the club to try and get some quality loan signings in, rather than permanent options like Wood.

There are enough good quality Premier League players out there who are on the fringes of their own side, and who are maybe angling for a move in the summer. It would make sense for Newcastle to bring such players in on loan now, to give them the best chance of staying up. If that succeeds the club then has the opportunity to pursue permanent signings in the summer, and if not they haven’t lost anything.

Similarly, the players have a chance to put themselves in the shop window, so that a good deal can be secured by them in the summer - either at Newcastle in the unlikely event they stay up, or elsewhere. There are players at Man United who probably fit that bill perfectly.

A permanent signing like Chris Wood is just odd.


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## Beezerk (Jan 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I agree no top striker will want a permanent move to Newcastle during this transfer window, which is why I fully expected the club to try and get some quality loan signings in, rather than permanent options like Wood.

There are enough good quality Premier League players out there who are on the fringes of their own side, and who are maybe angling for a move in the summer. It would make sense for Newcastle to bring such players in on loan now, to give them the best chance of staying up. If that succeeds the club then has the opportunity to pursue permanent signings in the summer, and if not they haven’t lost anything.

Similarly, the players have a chance to put themselves in the shop window, so that a good deal can be secured by them in the summer - either at Newcastle in the unlikely event they stay up, or elsewhere. There are players at Man United who probably fit that bill perfectly.

A permanent signing like Chris Wood is just odd.
		
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Even if Chris Wood never kicks a ball for the rest of the season it’s a decent signing. He was Burnley’s main striker and he isn’t there anymore, they’ve essentially guaranteed Burnley will get relegated so one more team out of the equation.


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## fundy (Jan 13, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Even if Chris Wood never kicks a ball for the rest of the season it’s a decent signing. He was Burnley’s main striker and he isn’t there anymore, they’ve essentially guaranteed Burnley will get relegated so one more team out of the equation.
		
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now weve got money we can spend £25m to sit someone on the bench haha

maybe shouldve tried for Cornet


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## Beezerk (Jan 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			now weve got money we can spend £25m to sit someone on the bench haha

maybe shouldve tried for Cornet 

Click to expand...

Ha ha why not, Man Utd have been doing it for years 😂


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## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			he really isnt as bad as people make out

antonio is hailed as a decent striker.. lets say its his 3rd season as a striker now

28 goals in that time (28 in 69)

woods 29 in same time (29 in 82)

bearing in mind he plays in a team that struggles for goals aswell
		
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Wood is a decent targetman, a bit one-dimensional, hence he obviously suited Burnley and does well in the Championship where it can be a bit more direct and physical. Obviously he thrives on crosses - I don't know if Newcastle are playing that way under Howe or not really.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I agree no top striker will want a permanent move to Newcastle during this transfer window, which is why I fully expected the club to try and get some quality loan signings in, rather than permanent options like Wood.

There are enough good quality Premier League players out there who are on the fringes of their own side, and who are maybe angling for a move in the summer. It would make sense for Newcastle to bring such players in on loan now, to give them the best chance of staying up. If that succeeds the club then has the opportunity to pursue permanent signings in the summer, and if not they haven’t lost anything.

Similarly, the players have a chance to put themselves in the shop window, so that a good deal can be secured by them in the summer - either at Newcastle in the unlikely event they stay up, or elsewhere. There are players at Man United who probably fit that bill perfectly.

A permanent signing like Chris Wood is just odd.
		
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I think the way that covid is taking out players clubs are reluctant to weaken their squads be letting players go on loan. Players who have not had a game all season now might be required because 6 others are having to isolate. I would agree totally with your logic but the last month or two has changed that imo.


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## fundy (Jan 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think the way that covid is taking out players clubs are reluctant to weaken their squads be letting players go on loan. Players who have not had a game all season now might be required because 6 others are having to isolate. I would agree totally with your logic but the last month or two has changed that imo.
		
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Yep the big sides are trying to recall loans more than letting others go out on them, those that do will be right at the end of the month if at all youd think


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## Billysboots (Jan 13, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Even if Chris Wood never kicks a ball for the rest of the season it’s a decent signing. He was Burnley’s main striker and he isn’t there anymore, they’ve essentially guaranteed Burnley will get relegated so one more team out of the equation.
		
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The thought had crossed my mind that this is perhaps the case. And if this is how they choose to conduct business, by weakening the opposition rather than strengthening their own squad, they will rapidly become a club nobody likes.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 13, 2022)

Imagine if Ashley & Bruce had signed Woods for £25m.


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## Beezerk (Jan 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			they will rapidly become a club nobody likes.
		
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That happened as soon as they got taken over, it will only increase if they gain some success I imagine, maybe if they play amazing football like Man City then people will appreciate them for that and see past all the off field stuff.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Imagine if Ashley & Bruce had signed Woods for £25m.
		
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They did sign Joelinton for £40m.

It took him 2 and a half seasons to have a decent game


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## pokerjoke (Jan 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They did sign Joelinton for £40m.

It took him 2 and a half seasons to have a decent game 

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Hence the 2 and a half year contract then,perhaps they are thinking along the same lines


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## Swango1980 (Jan 13, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			That happened as soon as they got taken over, it will only increase if they gain some success I imagine, maybe if they play amazing football like Man City then people will appreciate them for that and see past all the off field stuff.
		
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I hate City  . Preferred them when they had the likes of Naill Quinn, Uwe Rosler and Garry Flitcroft.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I hate City  . Preferred them when they had the likes of Naill Quinn, Uwe Rosler and Garry Flitcroft.
		
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Ah, the days when you could actually beat them . I was always a fan of Utd in the Dave Sexton era


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## Hobbit (Jan 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, the days when you could actually beat them . I was always a fan of Utd in the Dave Sexton era 

Click to expand...

You’ve got a good memory


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			You’ve got a good memory

Click to expand...

I like to test people every now and again . He was also the first utd manager I can remember, I am too young for The Doc.


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## Hobbit (Jan 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I like to test people every now and again . He was also the first utd manager I can remember, I am too young for The Doc.
		
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I’m remember the doc really well, in fact I also remember several before then too, but it’s the doc I remember the most. I was 14 when he took over.


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## pendodave (Jan 13, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			I’m remember the doc really well, in fact I also remember several before then too, but it’s the doc I remember the most. I was 14 when he took over.
		
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One of my earliest footballing memories is of Frank O'Farrell being sacked...
I am so old. (Though probably a whippersnapper at the last count).


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 13, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			I’m remember the doc really well, in fact I also remember several before then too, but it’s the doc I remember the most. I was 14 when he took over.
		
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At United, or duties with Mary Brown? 

Off the match, gonna be cold.


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## fundy (Jan 13, 2022)

good to see every single Liverpool player made a fast recovery


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## pauljames87 (Jan 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			good to see every single Liverpool player made a fast recovery 

Click to expand...

Amazing what a cheeky bit of fanta in the LFT can do


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## Hobbit (Jan 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			good to see every single Liverpool player made a fast recovery 

Click to expand...

When Middlesbrough lost 10 players to it 2 weeks ago, only 6 were fit the following week, at which a further 4 in the squad had gone down with it. If every single Liverpool players is fit within 7 days… yeah, right…


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## fundy (Jan 13, 2022)

the clowns at it again sigh


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## Swango1980 (Jan 13, 2022)

Can always have faith in Xhaka


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			When Middlesbrough lost 10 players to it 2 weeks ago, only 6 were fit the following week, at which a further 4 in the squad had gone down with it. If every single Liverpool players is fit within 7 days… yeah, right…

Click to expand...

I don’t know what the issue is - the club only followed the government guidelines with the amount of positive LFTs that happened which meant we had the shut the training ground 🤷‍♂️


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## Billysboots (Jan 13, 2022)

Granit Xhaka is so unbelievably predictable.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 13, 2022)

I thought they'd removed the double jeopardy of red card for denying a goal scoring opportunity if you were trying to play the ball.


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## adam6177 (Jan 13, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought they'd removed the double jeopardy of red card for denying a goal scoring opportunity if you were trying to play the ball.
		
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I think that's on penalties


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought they'd removed the double jeopardy of red card for denying a goal scoring opportunity if you were trying to play the ball.
		
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Is that not when it’s ln the box ?


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## hairball_89 (Jan 13, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought they'd removed the double jeopardy of red card for denying a goal scoring opportunity if you were trying to play the ball.
		
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In the box. It's not a pen and a red. Outside the box it's only "single" jeopardy giving away a free kick.


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## fundy (Jan 13, 2022)

Arteta got to take a massive chunk of the blame, not only for not selling the clown when he shouldve in the summer, but insisting how important he is and telling the fans how wrong we are about him, to letting AMN go out on loan early in january despite us having no midfield for the month

North London derby at the weekend, midfield of Lokonga and Chambers lol


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that not when it’s ln the box ?
		
Click to expand...

Yep, looks like it. Just had a look at the laws and this is the bit that covers it.....

SENDING-OFF OFFENCES
A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off: 

denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below)
The bit "outlined below" is the bit about it being in the penalty area and only being a yellow card in that situation.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			good to see every single Liverpool player made a fast recovery 

Click to expand...

The club of morals 😬😂😂
Tried to use government Furlough & used covid to their advantage 🤦‍♂️


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 13, 2022)

Bet Salah & his agent are rubbing their hands together watching this 💰 😂😂😂
#FSG trending on Twitter again 😂😂😂


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## pokerjoke (Jan 13, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Bet Salah & his agent are rubbing their hands together watching this 💰 😂😂😂
#FSG trending on Twitter again 😂😂😂
		
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I know I am


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## fundy (Jan 13, 2022)

Cracking result that for the 10 against 12 at Anfield after the clown departed. Expect we pay the price at the weekend (and next week too), barely not got a midfielder left


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 13, 2022)

Think the sending off ruined the game.
But they defended very well. But with so many men in the box made it very difficult.
We just ran out of ideas.
One clear chance for Minamino was a shocker.


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## Slime (Jan 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Cracking result that for the 10 against 12 at Anfield after the clown departed. Expect we pay the price at the weekend (and next week too), barely not got a midfielder left
		
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Arteta could always play the Covid card, although that has been done before!


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## fundy (Jan 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			Arteta could always play the Covid card, although that has been done before! 

Click to expand...


weve had enough cards


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## 4LEX (Jan 13, 2022)

Arsenal deserved that after the farce of the first leg being called off. Big fan of Liverpool and Klopp generally but poor form the Arsenal game was off and they managed to field a team in the FA Cup 3 days later and put out a strong side tonight.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Arsenal deserved that after the farce of the first leg being called off. Big fan of Liverpool and Klopp generally but poor form the Arsenal game was off and they managed to field a team in the FA Cup 3 days later and put out a strong side tonight.
		
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Why was it a farce that the game was called off ?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 13, 2022)

Our most creative option were terrible Arsenal back passes tonight.

Trust us to get their worst player sent off. we can vastly improve on that performance, all to play for.


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## fundy (Jan 13, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Our most creative option were terrible Arsenal back passes tonight.

Trust us to get their worst player sent off. we can vastly improve on that performance, all to play for.
		
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nah the worst player went off injured after 10 mins, you got the 2nd worst sent off


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## 4LEX (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why was it a farce that the game was called off ?
		
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Because you played a few days before the game in question and a few days after. It was cancelled due to injuries and Mane/Salah being away more so than Covid. Which makes it a farce. If you had Man Utd or Man City in  the FA Cup instead of a walkover I've no doubt that game would've been cancelled too. Most clubs with genuine Covid outbreaks miss 2-3 games, not just one favorable one. Not blaming Liverpool for trying it on, other clubs have done the same and the fault lies with the powers that be for letting clubs get away with it and not having proper rules in place.

If Arsenal postponed the second leg due to Covid for a week until Smith-Rowe, Saka and Odegaard were fully fit I'm sure you'd call it a farce too.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Because you played a few days before the game in question and a few days after. It was cancelled due to injuries and Mane/Salah being away more so than Covid. Which makes it a farce. If you had Man Utd or Man City in  the FA Cup instead of a walkover I've no doubt that game would've been cancelled too. Most clubs with genuine Covid outbreaks miss 2-3 games, not just one favorable one. Not blaming Liverpool for trying it on, other clubs have done the same and the fault lies with the powers that be for letting clubs get away with it and not having proper rules in place.

If Arsenal postponed the second leg due to Covid for a week until Smith-Rowe, Saka and Odegaard were fully fit I'm sure you'd call it a farce too.....
		
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A significant number of players returned positive Covid tests to the point that the training had to close - players sent to to isolation to add to the three already in isolation because of Covid - the club followed guidelines set out by the government and the sport and requested the game postponed. We had already 3 players out with Covid missing the previous game and played it 

The FA Cup game went ahead because the tests were found to be false positives so the training ground opened up on Friday and some players returned from isolation to be able to field a team in the cup with a number of Academy players 

Do you really think a club would falsify Covid tests to avoid playing a game ? 

Which “injured” players did we cancel it for 🤷‍♂️


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## Beezerk (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you really think a club would falsify Covid tests to avoid playing a game ?
		
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100% yes.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			100% yes.
		
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Wow - I know at times the sport isn’t great but falsify tests - which were all done by an independent company.

So which was it - the club lied about the results ?

Or Klopp sat there with a pen and drew the line ? 

Are all teams doing it then to get games called off ?


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## SammmeBee (Jan 14, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			100% yes.
		
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100% yes.


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## Beezerk (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - I know at times the sport isn’t great but falsify tests - which were all done by an independent company.

So which was it - the club lied about the results ?

Or Klopp sat there with a pen and drew the line ?

Are all teams doing it then to get games called off ?
		
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I'm not sure but like the Djokovic thing, it smells fishy.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I'm not sure but like the Djokovic thing, it smells fishy.
		
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https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...ool-false-positives-jurgen-klopp-22726116.amp

“
"Between the first test and the second test, and the second and third test, you cannot use the players. That's how the rules are, and in general the rules are for all of us.

"Then they get a third test and it was negative as well, then that's it.

"But it was four days later. We couldn't do anything different. From the first moment we got the positive tests, we had to consider that it was the right result, as you can imagine. They were PCR tests, by the way."


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 14, 2022)

Showed how much Liverpool rely on Salah and Sane. Jota has done a decent job but the others don't seem on it. Always going to be hard to break a side that sits behind the ball even before the sending off. What a clown and surely Arsenal need to be moving him on


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## Hobbit (Jan 14, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			100% yes.
		
Click to expand...

100% yes.

To think otherwise is naive, or use the same optician as Wenger.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2022)




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## Blue in Munich (Jan 14, 2022)

It's obviously a complete coincidence.

And as Jack Regan told George Carter, coincidences take a lot of engineering...


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## Hobbit (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...ool-false-positives-jurgen-klopp-22726116.amp

“
"Between the first test and the second test, and the second and third test, you cannot use the players. That's how the rules are, and in general the rules are for all of us.

"Then they get a third test and it was negative as well, then that's it.

"But it was four days later. We couldn't do anything different. From the first moment we got the positive tests, we had to consider that it was the right result, as you can imagine. They were PCR tests, by the way."
		
Click to expand...

Do you know what the false positive rate is for LFT and PCR? Obviously not. If you tested the all the players and staff you might be unlucky and get 2 false positives, and that’s using the extreme predicted figure, not the average.

”They we’re PCR tests by the way.” Really? PCR tests were they? Mmm, maybe Liverpool didn’t get the memo from the Premier League on the 4th Jan re which tests to use and when to use them.

Like I said, naïve.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Do you know what the false positive rate is for LFT and PCR? Obviously not. If you tested the all the players and staff you might be unlucky and get 2 false positives, and that’s using the extreme predicted figure, not the average.

”They we’re PCR tests by the way.” Really? PCR tests were they? Mmm, maybe Liverpool didn’t get the memo from the Premier League on the 4th Jan re which tests to use and when to use them.

Like I said, naïve.
		
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40 positive tests were returned so the club followed the rules set out - the club use an independent testing company to ensure there is full disclosure 

Is corruption that bad that a club would lie just so that a game can be postponed

And for what reason would the club want the club postponed? The only play who wouldn’t have been available that was last night was Matip - the injured players were still going to be injured and the players still away for AFCON - we also lost home advantage for the second leg , now have to play 2 games in 4 days .

So the club some how falsified 40 PCR tests , to ensure the training ground was closed all just to have Matip available - he is good but not that good.

So what was the reason for the club to go to that lengths just to get a game postponed?

Multiple clubs have had games postponed- some have had two yet not a peep of corruption ?

All through the Covid thread there are many Footballers highlighted for breaking Covid rules for parties and disrespecting the rules - we have a club follow the rules as required yet then get fingers pointed at them.

Is the bitterness that bad in football now , is it that far gone now for some to immediately look towards cheating and corruption.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 14, 2022)

You would be very naive to think there’s not corruption in football worldwide.
With the amount of money involved in football now it’s pretty much guaranteed.
Human beings are greedy in every walk of life you only have to watch the news to see that.
Watching the game last night I saw two teams who have very weakened squads for whatever reasons and overall a very poor game.
It’s certainly not over.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 14, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Showed how much Liverpool rely on Salah and Sane. Jota has done a decent job but the others don't seem on it. Always going to be hard to break a side that sits behind the ball even before the sending off. What a clown and surely Arsenal need to be moving him on
		
Click to expand...

Salah and Sane
Another added to the Hockey squad


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## Beezerk (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is the bitterness that bad in football now , is it that far gone now for some to immediately look towards cheating and corruption.
		
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Bitterness? You asked a simple question, i and others have given honest answers, because it doesn’t suit your agenda don’t go all 🎻 on us.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			nah the worst player went off injured after 10 mins, you got the 2nd worst sent off 

Click to expand...

Sorry, didn't think there was a level worse than Xhaka.


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## fundy (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sorry, didn't think there was a level worse than Xhaka. 

Click to expand...


nor did I until Cedric Soares turned up lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Bitterness? You asked a simple question, i and others have given honest answers, because it doesn’t suit your agenda don’t go all 🎻 on us.
		
Click to expand...

I can only judge on what I can see - a club follows the rules and protocols just like other clubs but appear to be highlighted as falsifying Covid results to get a game postponed for some unknown reason.

Whilst i suspect clubs aren’t perfect in all respects I don’t see Liverpool or indeed any club falsifying Covid results just so they can get a game postponed - it maybe naive but there is certainly no precedent to suggest it’s happen. Even more so when each club has come and explain every situation- and it’s all happening is multiple sports with games postponed because of Covid cases. 

If a team is caught falsifying the results then lll put my hands up and say I got it wrong but I don’t see clubs going to that level.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can only judge on what I can see - a club follows the rules and protocols just like other clubs but appear to be highlighted as falsifying Covid results to get a game postponed for some unknown reason.

Whilst i suspect clubs aren’t perfect in all respects I don’t see Liverpool or indeed any club falsifying Covid results just so they can get a game postponed - *it maybe naive but there is certainly no precedent to suggest it’s happen*. Even more so when each club has come and explain every situation- and it’s all happening is multiple sports with games postponed because of Covid cases.

If a team is caught falsifying the results then lll put my hands up and say I got it wrong but I don’t see clubs going to that level.
		
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I'm not surprised there is no precedent, it is not like clubs have had to postpone games for Covid for many decades. However, Liverpool may well be the club to set that precedent. I've raised an eyebrow on a number of occasions when teams have had games postponed. Even if Covid tests were genuine on most occasions, would it not be very easy to declare other players "injured" just to ensure they meet the criteria to have the game postponed?


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## Beezerk (Jan 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm not surprised there is no precedent, it is not like clubs have had to postpone games for Covid for many decades. However, Liverpool may well be the club to set that precedent. I've raised an eyebrow on a number of occasions when teams have had games postponed. Even if Covid tests were genuine on most occasions, would it not be very easy to declare other players "injured" just to ensure they meet the criteria to have the game postponed?
		
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I think Blood Gate in rugby proved how far top professional teams will go to get an advantage. Other football teams get accused of financial unfairness to get an advantage, cooking covid results and/or injuries is just another step in the same direction.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm not surprised there is no precedent, it is not like clubs have had to postpone games for Covid for many decades. However, Liverpool may well be the club to set that precedent. I've raised an eyebrow on a number of occasions when teams have had games postponed. Even if Covid tests were genuine on most occasions, would it not be very easy to declare other players "injured" just to ensure they meet the criteria to have the game postponed?
		
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Injuries wasn’t the reason why we asked for the game to be postponed - we haven’t got that many.

The club using an independent company came back with 40 Positive PCR results for staff and players at the training ground - this was not long after we had four others out with Covid 

Because it was such a high amount the training ground had to close and they then did more testing the next day and it was then most came back negative apart from TAA and some staff members , they then had to do a third round of testing to ensure all those false positives were exactly that ( apart from a couple ) - once that was done on third round and the tests came back negative then that’s when the training ground was back open ( believe the Friday ) and some sort of normality resumes 

No for me that’s quite an elaborate plan just so that the club could postpone a game that would gain them any advantage at all - the same players would were out for when it was due to be played are still out 🤷‍♂️ - so it’s seems quite a lot of work to create issues for no gain at all ?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Injuries wasn’t the reason why we asked for the game to be postponed - we haven’t got that many.*

The club using an independent company came back with 40 Positive PCR results for staff and players at the training ground - this was not long after we had four others out with Covid

Because it was such a high amount the training ground had to close and they then did more testing the next day and it was then most came back negative apart from TAA and some staff members , they then had to do a third round of testing to ensure all those false positives were exactly that ( apart from a couple ) - once that was done on third round and the tests came back negative then that’s when the training ground was back open ( believe the Friday ) and some sort of normality resumes

No for me that’s quite an elaborate plan just so that the club could postpone a game that would gain them any advantage at all - the same players would were out for when it was due to be played are still out 🤷‍♂️ - so it’s seems quite a lot of work to create issues for no gain at all ?
		
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I never said this. The first part of my post was related to Liverpool. However, the second part of my post was discussing the topic more generally. The fact that Liverpool don't have that many injuries was probably WHY they couldn't get away with pretending a few extra players were injured, and instead had to fake Covid results


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## Swingalot (Jan 14, 2022)

Burnley vs Leicester off now......no Burnley players......they have just sold their main striker for Gods sake and then call off the game. Jesus its so obvious. 

Anyway, after Millwall away last week in the cup which I'm still revelling in, especially as the 'dockers' showed their true colours off the pitch. Their CEO has just announced an aptly named 'don't be a tosser' campaign down here to try to identify and ban the supporters who pelted bottles onto the pitch. He is new to Millwall and maybe as the CEO he should re-consider as if they banned all of the 'tossers' they would have no one watching them within weeks.


Quite night tonight...........off to the South coast for Brighton away.......what a week!


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## pokerjoke (Jan 14, 2022)

The Covid card being in many walks of life now is ridiculous it’s such a cop out.
Got to feel for the genuine ones but atm it’s like Peter and the wolf.
Anyone with real Covid probably wouldn’t be playing football 3 days later.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Injuries wasn’t the reason why we asked for the game to be postponed - we haven’t got that many.

The club using an independent company came back with 40 Positive PCR results for staff and players at the training ground - this was not long after we had four others out with Covid

Because it was such a high amount the training ground had to close and they then did more testing the next day and it was then most came back negative apart from TAA and some staff members , they then had to do a third round of testing to ensure all those false positives were exactly that ( apart from a couple ) - once that was done on third round and the tests came back negative then that’s when the training ground was back open ( believe the Friday ) and some sort of normality resumes

No for me that’s quite an elaborate plan just so that the club could postpone a game that would gain them any advantage at all - the same players would were out for when it was due to be played are still out 🤷‍♂️ - so it’s seems quite a lot of work to create issues for no gain at all ?
		
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Phil, sit this one out.


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## Orikoru (Jan 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			Arteta got to take a massive chunk of the blame, not only for not selling the clown when he shouldve in the summer, but insisting how important he is and telling the fans how wrong we are about him, to letting AMN go out on loan early in january despite us having no midfield for the month

North London derby at the weekend, midfield of Lokonga and Chambers lol
		
Click to expand...

Apparently Wilshere has been training with you. If he comes back it'll be like a new signing..... 

I'm getting deja vu.


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## fundy (Jan 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently Wilshere has been training with you. If he comes back it'll be like a new signing.....

I'm getting deja vu. 

Click to expand...

been training with us a while, not coming back lol, more chance Arteta plays himself in central mid this weekend (which may or may not be an upgrade on what we actually have)


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## Hobbit (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			40 positive tests were returned so the club followed the rules set out - the club use an independent testing company to ensure there is full disclosure

Is corruption that bad that a club would lie just so that a game can be postponed

And for what reason would the club want the club postponed? The only play who wouldn’t have been available that was last night was Matip - the injured players were still going to be injured and the players still away for AFCON - we also lost home advantage for the second leg , now have to play 2 games in 4 days .

So the club some how falsified 40 PCR tests , to ensure the training ground was closed all just to have Matip available - he is good but not that good.

So what was the reason for the club to go to that lengths just to get a game postponed?

Multiple clubs have had games postponed- some have had two yet not a peep of corruption ?

All through the Covid thread there are many Footballers highlighted for breaking Covid rules for parties and disrespecting the rules - we have a club follow the rules as required yet then get fingers pointed at them.

Is the bitterness that bad in football now , is it that far gone now for some to immediately look towards cheating and corruption.
		
Click to expand...

Blah, blah, blah blah, blah… what a crock of… like I said, naïve.


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## JT77 (Jan 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			The Covid card being in many walks of life now is ridiculous it’s such a cop out.
Got to feel for the genuine ones but atm it’s like Peter and the wolf.
Anyone with real Covid probably wouldn’t be playing football 3 days later.
		
Click to expand...

It’s a tough one to call to be fair, I tested positive on Tuesday, felt dicey on Tuesday and Wednesday, but yesterday I felt a lot better, today I feel better again. 
The new VOC seems to impact differently to delta or alpha VOCs, and for me has been more like stomach bug than a respiratory one at present. Not saying a could play a premier league match though.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 14, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Because you played a few days before the game in question and a few days after. It was cancelled due to injuries and Mane/Salah being away more so than Covid. Which makes it a farce. If you had Man Utd or Man City in  the FA Cup instead of a walkover I've no doubt that game would've been cancelled too. Most clubs with genuine Covid outbreaks miss 2-3 games, not just one favorable one. Not blaming Liverpool for trying it on, other clubs have done the same and the fault lies with the powers that be for letting clubs get away with it and not having proper rules in place.

If Arsenal postponed the second leg due to Covid for a week until Smith-Rowe, Saka and Odegaard were fully fit I'm sure you'd call it a farce too.....
		
Click to expand...

I remember hearing on the radio it was due to not having the limited squad numbers league games require, the FA cup apparently lets clubs choose from their whole squad including U23, U18's etc, not a preselected and named list of players like the PL,CL etc do. So they were able to call on a different pool of players for the FA Cup game.


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## Hobbit (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can only judge on what I can see - a club follows the rules and protocols just like other clubs but appear to be highlighted as falsifying Covid results to get a game postponed for some unknown reason.

Whilst i suspect clubs aren’t perfect in all respects I don’t see Liverpool or indeed any club falsifying Covid results just so they can get a game postponed - it maybe naive but there is certainly no precedent to suggest it’s happen. Even more so when each club has come and explain every situation- and it’s all happening is multiple sports with games postponed because of Covid cases.

If a team is caught falsifying the results then lll put my hands up and say I got it wrong but I don’t see clubs going to that level.
		
Click to expand...

The percentage of false positives is well documented. You think Liverpool haven’t got less than 40 when the predicted rate is 2. Naive or just fluke? You’re intelligent, you choose.


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## Hobbit (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can only judge on what I can see - a club follows the rules and protocols just like other clubs but appear to be highlighted as falsifying Covid results to get a game postponed for some unknown reason.

Whilst i suspect clubs aren’t perfect in all respects I don’t see Liverpool or indeed any club falsifying Covid results just so they can get a game postponed - it maybe naive but there is certainly no precedent to suggest it’s happen. Even more so when each club has come and explain every situation- and it’s all happening is multiple sports with games postponed because of Covid cases.

If a team is caught falsifying the results then lll put my hands up and say I got it wrong but I don’t see clubs going to that level.
		
Click to expand...

you suspect clubs aren’t perfect but you don’t see any club falsifying results… make your mind up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Blah, blah, blah blah, blah… what a crock of… like I said, naïve.
		
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Excellent response 👏



Hobbit said:



			The percentage of false positives is well documented. You think Liverpool haven’t got less than 40 when the predicted rate is 2. Naive or just fluke? You’re intelligent, you choose.
		
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I have no idea what the percentage is 🤷‍♂️ Why would I 

The clubs report the positive test results to the authorities - I guess if they lied about the number of positive results then it will be easy enough for EFL to find out. But they were satisfied with it - give them a shout and let them know


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## Hobbit (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Excellent response 👏



I have no idea what the percentage is 🤷‍♂️ Why would I

The clubs report the positive test results to the authorities - I guess if they lied about the number of positive results then it will be easy enough for EFL to find out. But they were satisfied with it - give them a shout and let them know
		
Click to expand...

Yet more blah, blah, blah. Isn’t it amazing how you chase the far end of a fart when it suits but stick your head in the sand when it suits. BTW, I posted the percentage of false positives as per the ONS statistics but you, conveniently ignored it. And you also conveniently ignored the “PCR” comment about when the Prem League dropped them, 4th Jan, but St Kloooop said they’d been used after that date #fishy… amazing how you post detail but then become oh so vague if it doesn’t suit.

Its done, it’s over. The league have accepted it but if you think it doesn’t look a bit odd… aye, that’s fine.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Yet more blah, blah, blah. Isn’t it amazing how you chase the far end of a fart when it suits but stick your head in the sand when it suits. BTW, I posted the percentage of false positives as per the ONS statistics but you, conveniently ignored it. *And you also conveniently ignored the “PCR” comment about when the Prem League dropped them, 4th Jan, but St Kloooop said they’d been used after that date #fishy… amazing how you post detail but then become oh so vague if it doesn’t suit.*

Its done, it’s over. The league have accepted it but if you think it doesn’t look a bit odd… aye, that’s fine.

Click to expand...

Premier League to stop twice-weekly PCR tests for players and staff
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59882084

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-pcr-tests-pcr-test-omicron-b1987290.html?amp

Sorry I thought the report says they were stopping being used from the Thursday which is the 6th - the day the first leg was supposed to be - so the PCR tests that were done on the 4/5th and produced the false positives of were within the guidelines then 🤷‍♂️


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## Hobbit (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Premier League to stop twice-weekly PCR tests for players and staff
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59882084

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-pcr-tests-pcr-test-omicron-b1987290.html?amp

Sorry I thought the report says they were stopping being used from the Thursday which is the 6th - the day the first leg was supposed to be - so the PCR tests that were done on the 4/5th and produced the false positives of were within the guidelines then 🤷‍♂️
		
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The report came out on the Thursday but the start date was the 4th. And you still believe L’pool can get that many FALSE positives when the rate is between 0.3% and 4%? Really? Honestly? C’mon Phil you’re not that stupid. False negatives, yes I can believe it, but false positives?? You’re having a laugh.

With the best will in the world, within the bubble all the teams operate under, you believe in that many false positives? I’m just gobsmacked you believe the propaganda being spouted. But hey, crack on.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 14, 2022)

Is it possible that the person doing the tests, the medical staff not the player taking the test, had Covid at the time and has contaminated the players' tests? Mrs Colch tested our elder boy with an LFT when she was positive and it came up with a strong positive. Got him a PCR test and it was negative. The only thing we could think was that she had contaminated his test.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 14, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is it possible that the person doing the tests, the medical staff not the player taking the test, had Covid at the time and has contaminated the players' tests? Mrs Colch tested our elder boy with an LFT when she was positive and it came up with a strong positive. Got him a PCR test and it was negative. The only thing we could think was that she had contaminated his test.
		
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I'd like to think no, unless they stuck it down their throat and up their nose. If it was that easy for an infected person to contaminate a test (and multiple tests), I'd wonder why on earth the instructions are forcing me to gag every time I stick the think onto my tonsils, when I could get away with just touching the thing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is it possible that the person doing the tests, the medical staff not the player taking the test, had Covid at the time and has contaminated the players' tests? Mrs Colch tested our elder boy with an LFT when she was positive and it came up with a strong positive. Got him a PCR test and it was negative. The only thing we could think was that she had contaminated his test.
		
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No idea 🤷‍♂ - I did hear on the wireless that the new PCR that just goes up the nose doesn’t appear to be as fool proof at the previous ones - same with the LFT. 

During the first year there was an outbreak At a sandwich factory in Northampton- loads were positive on PCR despite being negative on LFT - it was found to be contaminated during transit and about 30% of them were wrong 

I guess with people faking negative tests to be able to go abroad or some faking positive tests to avoid work or school you could see people thinking sports teams would do something but imo the risk is far too great of them being caught


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## Swango1980 (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No idea 🤷‍♂ - I did hear on the wireless that the new PCR that just goes up the nose doesn’t appear to be as fool proof at the previous ones - same with the LFT.

During the first year there was an outbreak At a sandwich factory in Northampton- loads were positive on PCR despite being negative on LFT - it was found to be contaminated during transit and about 30% of them were wrong

I guess with people faking negative tests to be able to go abroad or some faking positive tests to avoid work or school you could see people thinking sports teams would do something but imo the risk is far too great of them being caught
		
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Yeah, sports teams would never do anything dodgy........

I see Arsenal looking to get the North London derby postponed.


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## fundy (Jan 14, 2022)

shame to see Arsenal requesting a postponement this weekend. Got 4 players at the AFcon, 1 idiot suspended, let 2 go out on loan in the last few days and a few injuries. couple of positive tests and can we cancel, wonder where they got that idea


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, sports teams would never do anything dodgy........

I see Arsenal looking to get the North London derby postponed.
		
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Give Jurgen a ring.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2022)

Apparently orange juice turns a test positive 🤷‍♂️


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No idea 🤷‍♂ - I did hear on the wireless that the new PCR that just goes up the nose doesn’t appear to be as fool proof at the previous ones - same with the LFT.

During the first year there was an outbreak At a sandwich factory in Northampton- loads were positive on PCR despite being negative on LFT - it was found to be contaminated during transit and about 30% of them were wrong

I guess with people faking negative tests to be able to go abroad or some faking positive tests to avoid work or school you could see people thinking sports teams would do something *but imo the risk is far too great of them being caught*

Click to expand...

What about all the sports stars that get caught taking PEDs?
Let’s be honest here Phil,they’ve played the game using covid to their advantage & done their homework before hand.
Simples 👍🏻👍🏻


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

Friday Night Football has just done a very good interview with Parrish and a Brighton exec

they mainly spoke about the money within the sport and the way it’s funnelled down to the EFL - 

Parrish brought up wage caps and each club having a wage cap linked to the level of income the club brings in - example club has a maximum wage bill of 75% of overall commercial and match day income 

Is that something that could work in the Prem ? I know La Liga have it at 70% and it’s one of the things that’s crippled Barcelona 

Would it make any difference?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Friday Night Football has just done a very good interview with Parrish and a Brighton exec

they mainly spoke about the money within the sport and the way it’s funnelled down to the EFL -

Parrish brought up wage caps and each club having a wage cap linked to the level of income the club brings in - example club has a maximum wage bill of 75% of overall commercial and match day income

Is that something that could work in the Prem ? I know La Liga have it at 70% and it’s one of the things that’s crippled Barcelona

Would it make any difference?
		
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So the top clubs are able to pay the bigger wages and stay at the top?


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## fundy (Jan 14, 2022)

on what basis is wages as a percentage of income a fair way to cap spend? seems a very specific metric which no one can explain why it is the right one


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			on what basis is wages as a percentage of income a fair way to cap spend? seems a very specific metric which no one can explain why it is the right one
		
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Parrish was saying that it would help encourage clubs to improve their stadium etc 

This is the La Liga one 

https://www.footballtransfers.com/e...lub-revealed-barcelona-forced-slash-costs/amp

“
La Liga’s salary budget is the only one of its kind in Europe’s major leagues. It holds its member clubs responsible for their expenditure and ensures that they remain within the confines of their revenue generated. 





The league president, Javier Tebas, introduced a 70% rule, where a club’s wage bill should not be more than 70% of their entire income.





But there are also underlying rules in place in terms of a club’s total debt which feeds into the number applied to a club’s salary limit which is why two clubs - Barcelona and Valencia - who have continued to spend despite amassing significant losses have been so adversely affected here.”

i know US Sports have blanket levels across all but they have drafts and no transfers etc 

Would a blanket level ie £150mil for example work or would it need to be across all leagues


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Parrish was saying that it would help encourage clubs to improve their stadium etc

This is the La Liga one

https://www.footballtransfers.com/e...lub-revealed-barcelona-forced-slash-costs/amp

“
La Liga’s salary budget is the only one of its kind in Europe’s major leagues. It holds its member clubs responsible for their expenditure and ensures that they remain within the confines of their revenue generated.





The league president, Javier Tebas, introduced a 70% rule, where a club’s wage bill should not be more than 70% of their entire income.





But there are also underlying rules in place in terms of a club’s total debt which feeds into the number applied to a club’s salary limit which is why two clubs - Barcelona and Valencia - who have continued to spend despite amassing significant losses have been so adversely affected here.”

i know US Sports have blanket levels across all but they have drafts and no transfers etc

Would a blanket level ie £150mil for example work or would it need to be across all leagues
		
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Improve their stadiums?
Improving stadiums doesn’t mean bigger crowds 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Parrish was saying that it would help encourage clubs to improve their stadium etc

This is the La Liga one

https://www.footballtransfers.com/e...lub-revealed-barcelona-forced-slash-costs/amp

“
La Liga’s salary budget is the only one of its kind in Europe’s major leagues. It holds its member clubs responsible for their expenditure and ensures that they remain within the confines of their revenue generated.





The league president, Javier Tebas, introduced a 70% rule, where a club’s wage bill should not be more than 70% of their entire income.





But there are also underlying rules in place in terms of a club’s total debt which feeds into the number applied to a club’s salary limit which is why two clubs - Barcelona and Valencia - who have continued to spend despite amassing significant losses have been so adversely affected here.”

i know US Sports have blanket levels across all but they have drafts and no transfers etc

Would a blanket level ie £150mil for example work or would it need to be across all leagues
		
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that just doesnt explain why its fair, that explains why he thinks it would be a workable option, holding Spain up as an example is kind of laughable as well over how they have operated over the years too

if they want to make it fair then cap spending for 20 years to include the last 15 and let anyone who wants to catch up catch up, then put a proper tfr spending and wages cap on them all at the same level and divi up the tv money equally. lets see if the big clubs and their fans are so keen then rather than on a system that keeps a handful of clubs at a massive advantage over anyone who receives new funding


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			that just doesnt explain why its fair, that explains why he thinks it would be a workable option, holding Spain up as an example is kind of laughable as well over how they have operated over the years too

if they want to make it fair then cap spending for 20 years to include the last 15 and let anyone who wants to catch up catch up, then put a proper tfr spending and wages cap on them all at the same level and divi up the tv money equally. lets see if the big clubs and their fans are so keen then rather than on a system that keeps a handful of clubs at a massive advantage over anyone who receives new funding
		
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Spot on.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 14, 2022)

Unworkable and at least a decade too late. The rich will still find a way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			that just doesnt explain why its fair, that explains why he thinks it would be a workable option, holding Spain up as an example is kind of laughable as well over how they have operated over the years too

if they want to make it fair then cap spending for 20 years to include the last 15 and let anyone who wants to catch up catch up, then put a proper tfr spending and wages cap on them all at the same level and divi up the tv money equally. lets see if the big clubs and their fans are so keen then rather than on a system that keeps a handful of clubs at a massive advantage over anyone who receives new funding
		
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It was just an attempt at a discussion point that’s all 

I’ll retreat and not attempt one again


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## fundy (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was just an attempt at a discussion point that’s all

I’ll retreat and not attempt one again
		
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that a promise?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was just an attempt at a discussion point that’s all

I’ll retreat and not attempt one again
		
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Seriously?
It was discussed & pointed out how it wouldn’t work.
Sorry that it didn’t turn into a all night debate for you 🤦‍♂️😂😂


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## adam6177 (Jan 14, 2022)

This is where keepers get too much protection in my eyes.... Yes he had it in 2 hands, but he just as much fell onto the Brighton player as the Brighton player did make an attempt to win the ball. Think he was a tad fortunate there.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 14, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482067091649974279


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## fundy (Jan 14, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			This is where keepers get too much protection in my eyes.... Yes he had it in 2 hands, but he just as much fell onto the Brighton player as the Brighton player did make an attempt to win the ball. Think he was a tad fortunate there.
		
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think its handball not a foul Trossard knocks it out with his elbow, not that VAR would know its ...... from its elbow

no chance they give that as a goal after disallowing the Schmeical one earlier in the season


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 14, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			This is where keepers get too much protection in my eyes.... Yes he had it in 2 hands, but he just as much fell onto the Brighton player as the Brighton player did make an attempt to win the ball. Think he was a tad fortunate there.
		
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I agree and back in the day when I played that would have been a goal. Mind you it was a crap penalty so Brighton should have been ahead anyway


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## adam6177 (Jan 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			think its handball not a foul Trossard knocks it out with his elbow, not that VAR would know its ...... from its elbow

no chance they give that as a goal after disallowing the Schmeical one earlier in the season
		
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That could make sense, I thought it was his thigh the ball got knocked into.


EDIT... Just seen it back and that should have stood, I don't see what the Maupay was supposed to do. The keeper falls into him as much as the other way round and knocks the ball from his hands. I'd like to have see that stand.


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## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

sounds like Arsenal have got away with it, tomorrows derby being postponed


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## AmandaJR (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			sounds like Arsenal have got away with it, tomorrows derby being postponed
		
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Why wouldn't they try though. A precedent has been set and bending the rules has worked...of course every other club is entitled to do the same.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2022)

Well looks like that’s prob it for the league - teams needed Chelsea to get something to keep it alive but 13 points is a huge gap to a squad like Chelsea’s - they aren’t going to drop enough points.

Seems they have Covid issues -guess that’s the difference with City , they can easily absorb it

Did also see that somehow during Covid they are prob going to the only club to make a profit - no idea how they have managed that but their commercial income from their various Abu Dhabi partnership turned around a £130mil loss ( despite a drop in match day revenue ) - that commercial income is now the highest in the Prem - amazing 🤔



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482339744231182339
Oops 😂😂


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## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Why wouldn't they try though. A precedent has been set and bending the rules has worked...of course every other club is entitled to do the same.
		
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I get that, doesnt mean I have to agree with it, as far as been released we have 1 covid case!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			I get that, doesnt mean I have to agree with it, as far as been released we have 1 covid case!
		
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It seems it’s also down to registered players etc - the club have youth players that could play in EFL cup for example but not in the Prem 

Don’t understand why the players went out on loan though if the squad is that small ?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			sounds like Arsenal have got away with it, tomorrows derby being postponed
		
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The Premier League is becoming a joke, teams can manipulate things now to have games postponed if it suits them. As far as I'm aware, no other top league allows it. Surely PL teams can get players in from their reserve/youth teams, like they do in the league cup?

Spurs will be happy, will probably have to play Arsenal when Arsenal have a full squad to pick from. If so, and I was running Spurs, I'd just say we can't play as we have too many injuries.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2022)

I think City were one of the first teams last season to cancel a game due to COVID. The noise from fans screaming ( particularly teams that were going for the title) to deduct points from City was deafening. The hypocrisy this season where clubs are now quite frankly taking the mick, yet the same fans all of a sudden have nothing to say.


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## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 40631

It seems it’s also down to registered players etc - the club have youth players that could play in EFL cup for example but not in the Prem

Don’t understand why the players went out on loan though if the squad is that small ?
		
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Partly mismanagement, partly because we have no football apart from the league left after next week. Clear AMN was never getting a crack under Arteta and they were always going to loan Balogun out as he wont get much first team football, as i posted the other day; 4 in africa, 5 or 6 injured, 1 clown suspended, 2 loaned out, theyve only actually declared Oedegaard as having Covid it seems 

Wonder if we want the 2nd leg postponed in the week lol


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## AmandaJR (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			I get that, doesnt mean I have to agree with it, as far as been released we have 1 covid case!
		
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I hear you but why should a rival have an advantage of choosing when to play a fixture. Two wrongs don't make a right but I can see why your club would take this course of action.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think City were one of the first teams last season to cancel a game due to COVID. The noise from fans screaming ( particularly teams that were going for the title) to deduct points from City was deafening. The hypocrisy this season where clubs are now quite frankly taking the mick, yet the same fans all of a sudden have nothing to say.
		
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Tashy, No Team is taking the “mick” they are using the rules the idiots at the PL have allowed.

Look at the FA Cup, FA said no postponements use any player from any level to get the game played.

The PL have said No to this and therefore only the 25 Squad players count towards the 13 outfield and 1 goalkeeper.

Why oh why in a competition worth millions of pounds would any Club purposely play a weakened team when they don’t have to, yes it may stink etc, but all teams having games cancelled have to provide evidence to the PL.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			Partly mismanagement, partly because we have no football apart from the league left after next week. Clear AMN was never getting a crack under Arteta and they were always going to loan Balogun out as he wont get much first team football, as i posted the other day; 4 in africa, 5 or 6 injured, 1 clown suspended, 2 loaned out, theyve only actually declared Oedegaard as having Covid it seems

Wonder if we want the 2nd leg postponed in the week lol
		
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Basically, if Covid didn't exist (and therefore teams couldn't ask.for games to.be suspended), Arsenal would be thread bare. But, on a technicality they have a get out of jail free card and have game postponed? It is a joke. All clubs pulling a fast one have made it a joke. 

Mind you, I'm delighted to be a telly clapper. I'd hate to be getting myself prepared to have a day out at a big game, train tickets booked and maybe hotel booked. And then game is called off at the last second. I'd want to be compensated for all my expenses.


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## AmandaJR (Jan 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think City were one of the first teams last season to cancel a game due to COVID. The noise from fans screaming ( particularly teams that were going for the title) to deduct points from City was deafening. The hypocrisy this season where clubs are now quite frankly taking the mick, yet the same fans all of a sudden have nothing to say.
		
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Take it as a compliment - I do. I love how we've become the team to hate and dig dirt on...means we're doing something right on the pitch. "Jealousy is the tribute mediocrity pays to genius".


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## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Tashy, No Team is taking the “mick” they are using the rules the idiots at the PL have allowed.

Look at the FA Cup, FA said no postponements use any player from any level to get the game played.

The PL have said No to this and therefore only the 25 Squad players count towards the 13 outfield and 1 goalkeeper.

Why oh why in a competition worth millions of pounds would any Club purposely play a weakened team when they don’t have to, yes it may stink etc, but all teams having games cancelled have to provide evidence to the PL.
		
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What about Liverpool. Klopp says X number of false positives. As Colchester said. You have a positive LFT, within an hour all players could and should of had a PCR and the results would of been back. Everyone has been busting a gut to get back to playing football and now we have this debacle. Tuchel mentioned how lucky City have been but when Pep was absent last week City had 21 out with COVID inc 7 players.. Teams like Burnley at the back end of the season are going to be in a right old mess.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Take it as a compliment - I do. I love how we've become the team to hate and dig dirt on...means we're doing something right on the pitch. "Jealousy is the tribute mediocrity pays to genius". 

Click to expand...

Amanda, ain’t that the truth. Looking forward to when City play next in a big game so we can comment about it on here 😉😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			What about Liverpool. Klopp says X number of false positives. As Colchester said. You have a positive LFT, within an hour all players could and should of had a PCR and the results would of been back. Everyone has been busting a gut to get back to playing football and now we have this debacle. Tuchel mentioned how lucky City have been but when Pep was absent last week City had 21 out with COVID inc 7 players.. Teams like Burnley at the back end of the season are going to be in a right old mess.
		
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What about LPool? Who cares about Burnley? Last season your game with us was cancelled with 3hrs notice with 4 cases of Covid, I remember you and others laughing when it was suggested Everton should of been awarded the points (I didn’t agree with that by the way) with it being such short notice.

Like City, LPool would of had to produce the evidence.

We are hopefully seeing some end to this Covid, but just accept some will worse affected than others. It’s a game of Football, far more important things in life.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			What about Liverpool. Klopp says X number of false positives. As Colchester said. You have a positive LFT, within an hour all players could and should of had a PCR and the results would of been back. Everyone has been busting a gut to get back to playing football and now we have this debacle. *Tuchel mentioned how lucky City have been but when Pep was absent last week City had 21 out with COVID inc 7 players.. *Teams like Burnley at the back end of the season are going to be in a right old mess.
		
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I wonder how many other squads in the Prem can have 21 players out and still play the team that was played against Swindon 
Walker
Dias
Cancelo
Ake
De Bruyne
Rodri
Silva
Jesus
Gundogan

And having a £50mil CB sat on the bench 

Any other team loses 21 players to Covid and they are playing a full Under 18 squad 

So Tuchel has prob got a point 

And in regards the postponement last year - was that not more about the lateness of the postponement hence there were some suggesting the game against Everton should have been awarded to Everton because of how late it was


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2022)

Need a massive turnaround or I think Benitez will be gone, 2 goals in a minute, the first an an own goal and the 2nd straight down through the defence! Just shocking


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## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			What about LPool? Who cares about Burnley? Last season your game with us was cancelled with 3hrs notice with 4 cases of Covid, I remember you and others laughing when it was suggested Everton should of been awarded the points (I didn’t agree with that by the way) with it being such short notice.

Like City, LPool would of had to produce the evidence.

We are hopefully seeing some end to this Covid, but just accept some will worse affected than others. It’s a game of Football, far more important things in life.
		
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Er I don’t remember laughing, and you quoted the prem league and it rules, yet it was the Prem league that cancelled the game. 

Quote from Sky re the City Everton game
The Premier League believes its protocols remain 'robust' after taking medical advice when making the decision to postpone Manchester City's game against Everton.

Everton asked for "full disclosure" of information from the Premier League after the match was postponed four hours before it was due to kick-off at Goodison Park because of a growing Covid-19 outbreak among the City squad.

On Christmas Day, City announced that Gabriel Jesus and Kyle Walker had tested positive, along with two members of club staff. The club have now closed their first-team training ground, which will undergo a deep clean.

City announced they had players with COVID four days before the game.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Er I don’t remember laughing, and you quoted the prem league and it rules, yet it was the Prem league that cancelled the game.

Quote from Sky re the City Everton game
The Premier League believes its protocols remain 'robust' after taking medical advice when making the decision to postpone Manchester City's game against Everton.

Everton asked for "full disclosure" of information from the Premier League after the match was postponed four hours before it was due to kick-off at Goodison Park because of a growing Covid-19 outbreak among the City squad.

On Christmas Day, City announced that Gabriel Jesus and Kyle Walker had tested positive, along with two members of club staff. The club have now closed their first-team training ground, which will undergo a deep clean.

City announced they had players with COVID four days before the game.
		
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2 players out of a Squad of 25!! The match was meant to be 29th!! They knew 4 days before and waited until 4hrs before

Yet you question LPool’s integrity!! 

I’m not the one moaning about teams using the rules!


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## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

well Homies gonna be happy Fulham have scored 11 goals in the last 90 minutes!!!!


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			well Homies gonna be happy Fulham have scored 11 goals in the last 90 minutes!!!!
		
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Losing twice aswell.
I’ve got em in last man,was sweating for a minute.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			2 players out of a Squad of 25!! The match was meant to be 29th!! They knew 4 days before and waited until 4hrs before

Yet you question LPool’s integrity!!

*I’m not the one moaning about teams using the rules*!
		
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my first post on covid cancellations

The hypocrisy this season where clubs are now quite frankly taking the mick, yet the same fans all of a sudden have nothing to say.

And those Fans are not moaning either.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			my first post on covid cancellations

The hypocrisy this season where clubs are now quite frankly taking the mick, yet the same fans all of a sudden have nothing to say.

And those Fans are not moaning either.
		
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https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/the-footie-thread.109437/page-213#post-2282291

Refresh your mind on what people actually said when the Everton/City match was postponed. Seems a bit different to what you’re portraying


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			my first post on covid cancellations

The hypocrisy this season where clubs are now quite frankly taking the mick, yet the same fans all of a sudden have nothing to say.

And those Fans are not moaning either.
		
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Prove they are taking the mick, it’s the same rules as last season.

All evidence has to be sent to the PL!

When playing Golf and you use the rules to gain an advantage, are you taking the mick?


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## Crazyface (Jan 15, 2022)

Macc are doing well. Top of the league at the mo. I'm a bit bored........


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2022)

Seriously guys there’s more to life 🤦‍♂️😬


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Need a massive turnaround or I think Benitez will be gone, 2 goals in a minute, the first an an own goal and the 2nd straight down through the defence! Just shocking
		
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Bit of a better 2nd half, but over 90 Norwich deserved the points, certainly think we are in a relegation battle unless something changes in the very short term.


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## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Bit of a better 2nd half, but over 90 Norwich deserved the points, *certainly think we are in a relegation battle unless something changes* in the very short term.
		
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Were you pro or anti Benitez when he got the job?
Oh, and what are you now?


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## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)




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## adam6177 (Jan 15, 2022)

I assume that means penandes is back to being world class.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Were you pro or anti Benitez when he got the job?
Oh, and what are you now?
		
Click to expand...

I believe we should stick with him unless we are relegated, chopped and changed too much over recent years.


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I believe we should stick with him unless we are relegated, *chopped and changed too much over recent years.*

Click to expand...

I think they call that 'Man United Syndrome'!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			I think they call that 'Man United Syndrome'!
		
Click to expand...

We’ve been far worse


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2022)

Just looked at the Championship Table and seen that despite starting the season with -21 points Derby are no longer bottom of the table

Is Rooney going to do the near impossible and keep them up -


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## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I assume that means penandes is back to being world class.
		
Click to expand...

No but he’s actually holding his position.
Exactly what I was saying last week,obviously been told to stop doing headless running and it’s helping,no real gaping holes in midfield.


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just looked at the Championship Table and seen that despite starting the season with -21 points Derby are no longer bottom of the table

Is Rooney going to do the near impossible and keep them up -
		
Click to expand...

I hope so, he has a habit of not knowing when he's beaten.
It would be a huge testament to him and all of the players.


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

1st half done and I've been very impressed with Elanga, he certainly made a difference in Monday's game.
He definitely lifted the crowd with his endeavour and enthusiasm.


----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just looked at the Championship Table and seen that despite starting the season with -21 points Derby are no longer bottom of the table

Is Rooney going to do the near impossible and keep them up -
		
Click to expand...


still got a massive task ahead, theyve got to sell players this january, are on a transfer ban so cant bring any in, and are under a threat of further point deductions if they cant prove they will be able to fulfill their fixtures for the rest of the season on all accounts

IF he keeps em up it will be one helluva achievment


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

Why has Utds midfield decided to go walk about,working a treat first half.
Fred has lost the plot


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)




----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 15, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 40639

Click to expand...

We're getting the full menagerie over the last couple of weeks. Keep 'em coming.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2022)

Is Fernandes ensuring he gets nominated for an Oscar - looked like he was in a loooooottt of pain 😢 then seems to recover quickly


----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 40639

Click to expand...


this guy a definite improvement on last weeks imposter


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			this guy a definite improvement on last weeks imposter 

Click to expand...

You just wanna hope United don't get another!


----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			You just wanna hope United don't get another!
		
Click to expand...


from a betting point ill take 3 more plse lol


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2022)

Just back from the Toon v Watford 😳. Certainly a relegation battle, two poor teams. Newcastle's defence is awful, Watford were happy to come for a point. Newcastle go 1 up and then decide to sit back, with THAT defence . If either team avoid relegation it will be remarkable.


----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			from a betting point ill take 3 more plse lol
		
Click to expand...


ooooh, theres one


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)




----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just back from the Toon v Watford 😳. Certainly a relegation battle, two poor teams. Newcastle's defence is awful, Watford were happy to come for a point. Newcastle go 1 up and then decide to sit back, with THAT defence . If either team avoid relegation it will be remarkable.
		
Click to expand...


Norwich, Burnley and Everton got something to say about that


----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

ooh, theres another one


----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

Villa look such a better side without Ings on the pitch


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)




----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

RR clueless 
I could see it a mile off
Fred,Cavani have run themselves into the ground.
Fresh legs in midfield and that wouldn’t have happened.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just back from the Toon v Watford 😳. Certainly a relegation battle, two poor teams. Newcastle's defence is awful, Watford were happy to come for a point. Newcastle go 1 up and then decide to sit back, with THAT defence . If either team avoid relegation it will be remarkable.
		
Click to expand...

Just wait for MOTD, there’s another Team determined to help at least one of them stay up😩


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

Oh, substitutions with seven seconds left!


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

Why
Jesus Christ you couldn’t make this crap up
2 minutes


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Oh, substitutions with seven seconds left! 

Click to expand...

Absolute joke


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			Norwich, Burnley and Everton got something to say about that 

Click to expand...

Sadly correct but boy those two are bad. Anyone beneath them deserves to go down. If that is us then we can't complain.


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

Sky have just gone to adverts!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Just wait for MOTD, there’s another Team determined to help at least one of them stay up😩
		
Click to expand...

If you can't beat Norwich 😱😱


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Sky have just gone to adverts!
		
Click to expand...

On Main event - go to the Prem channel


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 15, 2022)

Some way to mark a debut. Shame about the keeper howler as Villa were the better side


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

Rangnick, what a muppet!


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## Billysboots (Jan 15, 2022)

Even the fact that I had 2-2 in the forum prediction league does not soften the blow of that capitulation.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Some way to mark a debut. Shame about the keeper howler as Villa were the better side
		
Click to expand...

Rubbish we battered them first half


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Rangnick, what a muppet!
		
Click to expand...

To be fair the bar has been set pretty low


----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Rangnick, what a muppet!
		
Click to expand...


think id be looking at the egos on (and off) the pitch rather than the poor sod trying to control them all


----------



## Hogieefc (Jan 15, 2022)

Emergency board meeting at Everton to discuss Benitez future


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## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			think id be looking at the egos on (and off) the pitch rather than the poor sod trying to control them all
		
Click to expand...

Pep does it
Tuchel does it
Klopp does it
Massive club massive egos needs a massive manager,RR is not that manager.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 15, 2022)

Hogieefc said:



			Emergency board meeting at Everton to discuss Benitez future
		
Click to expand...

Not a surprise. Fans are unhappy and not getting results and team doesn't seem engaged. Can only end one way.


----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Pep does it
Tuchel does it
Klopp does it
Massive club massive egos needs a massive manager,RR is not that manager.
		
Click to expand...


hes also only been given an interim role, and yet the fans expect him to do so inside a few weeks, yeah right

did those named above all do so inside 4 weeks?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 15, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Pep does it
Tuchel does it
Klopp does it
Massive club massive egos needs a massive manager,RR is not that manager.
		
Click to expand...

He clearly didn't trust those on the bench. The team was playing better than usual, and had a lead. If he made earlier subs, and they'd played rubbish (which is more than likely), RR would have been hugely criticised. 

At end of day, all of our defensive midfielders are rubbish on the ball, relatively speaking, and will never allow Utd to control a game for most of the 90 minutes. Our defense are too timid to take control of defence, and shout at the midfielders to get out. So, even after a good start, we always seem to get deeper and deeper, and lose all confidence.

I reckon Utd don't need one central midfielder, I think they need at least 2.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			hes also only been given an interim role, and yet the fans expect him to do so inside a few weeks, yeah right

did those named above all do so inside 4 weeks?
		
Click to expand...

I suspect they did
I can’t remember anyone stepping out of line,although I could be wrong.
He’s interim now with the option to be the long term manager.
I don’t see it.
He just didn’t see the midfield shape changing and tiredness settling in( Roy Keane saw it) I saw it.
Or he saw it and failed to rectify it.


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			think id be looking at the egos on (and off) the pitch rather than the poor sod trying to control them all
		
Click to expand...

He was a muppet in that, in my opinion, he made the changes far too late to have any effect.


----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

this Salah lad in the Afcon looks a decent player


----------



## Swango1980 (Jan 15, 2022)

Does Micah Richards no longer work at Sky? Not seen him in ages on Sky, though he has been on BBC.


----------



## Jimaroid (Jan 15, 2022)

Hogieefc said:



			Emergency board meeting at Everton to discuss Benitez future
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully the board room has a giant mirror for them to look into.


----------



## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			He was a muppet in that, in my opinion, he made the changes far too late to have any effect.
		
Click to expand...

hes damned if he does, damned if he doesnt, without being given any time though isnt he whilst also the players know hes not the long term choice
some fans wont be happy till Fergies back in charge


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Does Micah Richards no longer work at Sky? Not seen him in ages on Sky, though he has been on BBC.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly looks like a BBC man now. I really liked him on sky, particularly as a foil to Roy Keane. Wasted on the beeb.


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## JT77 (Jan 15, 2022)

Ah I like the banter with Richards and Keane.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2022)

What the heck is going on with De Beek 

Everytime I see him he looks to have a touch of class about him on the ball , was very good at Ajax but just can’t get a consistent look in ?


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## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What the heck is going on with De Beek

Everytime I see him he looks to have a touch of class about him on the ball , was very good at Ajax but just can’t get a consistent look in ?
		
Click to expand...

No he doesn’t 
To be fair he hasn’t had a run but he’s far from class.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			hes damned if he does, damned if he doesnt, without being given any time though isnt he whilst also the players know hes not the long term choice
some fans wont be happy till Fergies back in charge 

Click to expand...

I bet you wanted Arteta out 6 months ago,I know a lot were saying he’s not good enough.


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## Golfmmad (Jan 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sadly looks like a BBC man now. I really liked him on sky, particularly as a foil to Roy Keane. Wasted on the beeb.
		
Click to expand...

Micah's good on any channel. He's good with G. Lineker and A. Shearer. 👍


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## fundy (Jan 15, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I bet you wanted Arteta out 6 months ago,I know a lot were saying he’s not good enough.
		
Click to expand...

yeah i did, that was after hed been with us 18 mths, not after a few weeks, tbh im still on the fence where hes concerned


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## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			yeah i did, that was after hed been with us 18 mths, not after a few weeks, tbh im still on the fence where hes concerned 

Click to expand...

Sometimes you just get that feeling about managers.
To me I like his honesty,however I just don’t like his tactics,I see weaknesses.
First half today it’s probably the best shape we’ve had.
2nd half we had Fred pressing Mings right up the middle causing us massive problems.
Why? Shout at him ,get him back in position,but no,he let it continue and we got caught.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Micah's good on any channel. He's good with G. Lineker and A. Shearer. 👍
		
Click to expand...

He is but he was better laughing at Keane going off on one 😆. I think the Sky set up allowed his personality to come through more. Still good value though 👍


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## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

Apparently Martial refused to be in today's squad.
Utter scumbag!
Just get rid, whatever it takes, get rid.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder how many other squads in the Prem can have 21 players out and still play the team that was played against Swindon
Walker
Dias
Cancelo
Ake
De Bruyne
Rodri
Silva
Jesus
Gundogan

And having a £50mil CB sat on the bench

Any other team loses 21 players to Covid and they are playing a full Under 18 squad

So Tuchel has prob got a point

And in regards the postponement last year - was that not more about the lateness of the postponement hence there were some suggesting the game against Everton should have been awarded to Everton because of how late it was
		
Click to expand...

Aint that the truth.

City were the first team to have a dodgy cancellation last season, and yet we're the big story with City fans!!!!!

I was thinking about this in the week - Man u and Arsenal won league titles with (off the top of my head) the likes  of Pascal Cygan, Quinton fortune, John O shea, Wes brown, Darren Fletcher, Grimandi, Stepanovs and quite a few more of this "standard" who were squad players, or sometimes even had 10-20 games in Championship winning sides.

City dont have this problem, 2nd, 3rd and even fourth choice can be 30-50 million pound signings. Different beast.

Go on Fundy and man u fans, who else did you have to win the league with - I think we need a worst eleven.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Aint that the truth.

City were the first team to have a dodgy cancellation last season, and yet we're the big story with City fans!!!!!

I was thinking about this in the week - Man u and Arsenal won league titles with (off the top of my head) the likes  of Pascal Cygan, Quinton fortune, John O shea, Wes brown, Darren Fletcher, Grimandi, Stepanovs and quite a few more of this "standard" who were squad players, or sometimes even had 10-20 games in Championship winning sides.

City dont have this problem, 2nd, 3rd and even fourth choice can be 30-50 million pound signings. Different beast.

Go on Fundy and man u fans, who else did you have to win the league with - I think we need a worst eleven. 

Click to expand...

That’s well harsh on Fletcher putting him in that company imo. He’s the sort of player that would fit seemlessly in your functional midfield imo.

In fact it’s even worse when the likes of Anderson and kleberson aren’t mentioned.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			That’s well harsh on Fletcher putting him in that company imo. He’s the sort of player that would fit seemlessly in your functional midfield imo.

In fact it’s even worse when the likes of Anderson and kleberson aren’t mentioned.
		
Click to expand...

Your right, I only thought about it for a few minutes, I'm sure the Gooners and united fans can do better than me.

I can give you Kevin Mcdonald, double winner in 1986 for us, signed to try and replace Graeme Souness, who was a legend.

As my mate used to say, he ran as if the hairs on his arse were tied together.


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## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Your right, I only thought about it for a few minutes, I'm sure the Gooners and united fans can do better than me.

I can give you Kevin Mcdonald, double winner in 1986 for us, signed to try and replace Graeme Souness, who was a legend.

As my mate used to say, *he ran as if the hairs on his arse were tied together.*

Click to expand...


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## Slime (Jan 15, 2022)

I'll give you Alex Buttner and Daron Gibson.
Also Darren Ferguson, David Bellion, Luke Chadwick and Ronnie Wallwork.


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## greenone (Jan 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'll give you Alex Buttner and Daron Gibson.
Also Darren Ferguson, David Bellion, Luke Chadwick and Ronnie Wallwork.
		
Click to expand...

It still amazes me that djimi traore has a European cup winners medal.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2022)

greenone said:



			It still amazes me that djimi traore has a European cup winners medal.
		
Click to expand...

I dunno, he's in exalted company with Nunuez, Josemi and Igor Biscan.

Remember the banner:-


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## Swango1980 (Jan 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'll give you Alex Buttner and Daron Gibson.
Also Darren Ferguson, David Bellion, Luke Chadwick and Ronnie Wallwork.
		
Click to expand...

Prunier, Bebe, Macheda, Rossi, Jordi Cruyff


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2022)

Reports are saying Rafa has gone, official statement released today or tomorrow once details are ironed out. Big Dunc to take temporary charge. Here we go again.............


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## BrianM (Jan 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Reports are saying Rafa has gone, official statement released today or tomorrow once details are ironed out. Big Dunc to take temporary charge. Here we go again.............
		
Click to expand...

You could do worse than Big Dunc, One think you'll get in abundance is passion and hopefully get a bit of heart back in the team.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2022)

BrianM said:



			You could do worse than Big Dunc, One think you'll get in abundance is passion and hopefully get a bit of heart back in the team.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. He did a good job last time, gave us the mini boost that we needed. If he can give the team a jolt and get some points then that would be a relief. No need for a panic appointment.


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## Billysboots (Jan 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			That’s well harsh on Fletcher putting him in that company imo. He’s the sort of player that would fit seemlessly in your functional midfield imo.

In fact it’s even worse when the likes of Anderson and kleberson aren’t mentioned.
		
Click to expand...

I still vividly recall being at Old Trafford all those years ago when United demolished Roma 7-1. And I am always happy to tell anyone who asks that the best player on the pitch that night wasn’t one of the “big” names, it was Darren Fletcher.

Hugely underrated player, at least by those who don’t actually know their football.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 16, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I still vividly recall being at Old Trafford all those years ago when United demolished Roma 7-1. And I am always happy to tell anyone who asks that the best player on the pitch that night wasn’t one of the “big” names, it was Darren Fletcher.

Hugely underrated player, at least by those who don’t actually know their football.
		
Click to expand...

Imo I genuinely think UTD would have beaten Barca in the CL final hadn't it been for the shambles of a red he got when UTD beat arsenal in the semis but conceded a pen (where he win the ball).

Him and Park were superb and disrupting any teams flow and allowing the creative players to thrive.


----------



## Jimaroid (Jan 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Agreed. He did a good job last time, gave us the mini boost that we needed. If he can give the team a jolt and get some points then that would be a relief. No need for a panic appointment.
		
Click to expand...

This would be the sensible thing to do. But when was the last time we saw them do something sensible? 

I’ve got the fear.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 16, 2022)




----------



## fundy (Jan 16, 2022)

lol


----------



## Baldy Bouncer (Jan 16, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 40644

Click to expand...






Obsessed much?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 16, 2022)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			Obsessed much?

Click to expand...

Aka banter 👍


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Micah's good on any channel. He's good with G. Lineker and A. Shearer. 👍
		
Click to expand...

They must have heard us, he is back on Sky today 😁. Sadly, his grumpy mate isn't there but it's good to see him on again.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

Leeds looking good for their lead ATM 

Another 2 injuries tho?


----------



## BiMGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Leeds looking good for their lead ATM

Another 2 injuries tho?
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal would be asking for a postponement at half time 😂


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Arsenal would be asking for a postponement at half time 😂
		
Click to expand...

How haven't you already? Your missing loads 

James needs to improve his finishing ..


----------



## fundy (Jan 16, 2022)

Not surprisingly Rafas got the old tin tack


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 16, 2022)

Benitez gone.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2022)

Another manager gone for Everton 

That’s 6 full time managers sacked/left since 2013 ( when Moyes left ) , millions spent on players 

Never will ever improve without any stability at the club


----------



## fundy (Jan 16, 2022)

The bit I dont get is they sold Digne because he fell out with Benitez, then sacked Benitez the week after


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Benitez gone.
		
Click to expand...

Tears in the red half of liverpool. All the agent Rafa memes I've been getting for the last few months will grind to a halt, thankfully 🙄


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			The bit I dont get is they sold Digne because he fell out with Benitez, then sacked Benitez the week after
		
Click to expand...

Are you trying to bring logic into this 🤔. Stop looking, you won't find any. Remember, we also got rid of our director of football a few weeks ago because he and Rafa were not in agreement.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tears in the red half of liverpool. All the agent Rafa memes I've been getting for the last few months will grind to a halt, thankfully 🙄
		
Click to expand...

I always thought it would end like this.
Every Everton fan I know didn’t want Rafa as manager.
That must transmit to the players.
It was just a poor appointment imo.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

Not a game for defenders this one lol


----------



## BiMGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

This is the Leeds we love.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Jan 16, 2022)

Rooney evens for The Everton job. Surely they need somebody with more experience


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I always thought it would end like this.
Every Everton fan I know didn’t want Rafa as manager.
That must transmit to the players.
It was just a poor appointment imo.
		
Click to expand...

Totally illogical, inviting problems. Rafa was never going to get time once problems started, the fans were never going to give him that. 

By all accounts Kenwright and the board warned against it but the owner was dead set on him. The owner can't say he wasn't warned, either by those within the club, fans, ex players, everyone 🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

Leeds playing well today, deserve this by a long way


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Rooney evens for The Everton job. Surely they need somebody with more experience
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully that is just emotional nonsense. Yes, is the answer to your last sentence.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

Offside? Oh come on


Looked fine ..


----------



## Jimaroid (Jan 16, 2022)

The idea Rafa was a secret agent has been making me laugh since the beginning but he’s exposed the deeper problems we’ve had for too long, I admired him for that.


----------



## Dando (Jan 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Hopefully that is just emotional nonsense. Yes, is the answer to your last sentence.
		
Click to expand...

The grannies will be hoping it’s true


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

Wow Bowen what a miss 

However Leeds deserve it


----------



## BiMGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Wow Bowen what a miss

However Leeds deserve it
		
Click to expand...

Looked more like our old selves despite the injuries. The work rate was phenomenal. 

Very happy with that win.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Looked more like our old selves despite the injuries. The work rate was phenomenal.

Very happy with that win.
		
Click to expand...

Good to watch, both defences were awful tho for sure


----------



## Jimaroid (Jan 16, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			The idea Rafa was a secret agent has been making me laugh since the beginning but he’s exposed the deeper problems we’ve had for too long, I admired him for that.
		
Click to expand...

Jim, this twitter thread sums up your feelings on all this much better than you can.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482735210403966981


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2022)

Duncan Ferguson will soon be with his 9th manager - amazing that he continues to stay there as each manager leaves 

the disallowed goal in the Leeds match is strange one , the guy is on the line , it’s going in regardless but I guess he’s disallowed because it hit him -


----------



## BiMGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Duncan Ferguson will soon be with his 9th manager - amazing that he continues to stay there as each manager leaves

the disallowed goal in the Leeds match is strange one , the guy is on the line , it’s going in regardless but I guess he’s disallowed because it hit him -
		
Click to expand...

He wasn’t offside when the ball was hit. So it doesn’t matter that it hit him before going in.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482478998827544583


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 16, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			He wasn’t offside when the ball was hit. So it doesn’t matter that it hit him before going in.
		
Click to expand...

If you look at the pictures there's only one player between him and the goal. The keeper is in front of him so he's offside.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			He wasn’t offside when the ball was hit. So it doesn’t matter that it hit him before going in.
		
Click to expand...

🤷‍♂️ He was in an offside position- thought the issue would be more about affecting the play


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 16, 2022)

Wow 
As a neutral for the first time in 65 years I found myself supporting Leeds.
Good old fashioned blood and snotters game.
Perhaps they are learning from Scotland.


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## evemccc (Jan 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482478998827544583

Click to expand...

Rafa is well past it, 100% yesterday’s man in terms of football in 2022…just like Mourinho 


Liverpool fans fawning over him…yet for years they played turgid, defensive football under his stewardship

It’s telling that their two biggest club stalwarts, Gerrard and Carragher, both didn’t get on with him

Yet their herd-like mentality fans are still obsessed with him


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## Golfmmad (Jan 16, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I still vividly recall being at Old Trafford all those years ago when United demolished Roma 7-1. And I am always happy to tell anyone who asks that the best player on the pitch that night wasn’t one of the “big” names, it was Darren Fletcher.

Hugely underrated player, at least by those who don’t actually know their football.
		
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I remember watching that game on TV. I think it was when Alan Smith played for Utd. Right from the whistle they were all over Roma with a high press, (yes, even that long ago) and Smith led the line brilliantly. Fergie must have really fired 'Em up for that game!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2022)

evemccc said:



			Rafa is well past it, 100% yesterday’s man in terms of football in 2022…just like Mourinho


Liverpool fans fawning over him…yet for years they played turgid, defensive football under his stewardship

It’s telling that their two biggest club stalwarts, Gerrard and Carragher, both didn’t get on with him

Yet their herd-like mentality fans are still obsessed with him
		
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Will always be the manager that won CL 2005 👍 can’t take that away from him 

No idea about Gerrard and Carragher not “getting on with him” 

For us he was superb


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## BiMGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you look at the pictures there's only one player between him and the goal. The keeper is in front of him so he's offside.






Click to expand...

Very good point. Completely missed where the keeper was 🤦

Still a nonsense decision considering what was allowed to stand last weekend.


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## Slime (Jan 16, 2022)

The WHU vs Leeds game was funto watch.
The quality of passing, first touch and control was absolutely awful.
The levels of effort and commitment were commendable.
Dan James, he's just awful.
I think Leeds were worthy winners today.
Declan Rice ............................ a Rolls Royce cruising amongst the bedlam, he really is a class apart.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			The WHU vs Leeds game was funto watch.
The quality of passing, first touch and control was absolutely awful.
The levels of effort and commitment were commendable.
Dan James, he's just awful.
I think Leeds were worthy winners today.
Declan Rice ............................ a Rolls Royce cruising amongst the bedlam, he really is a class apart.
		
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Have you put Rice on your Christmas list?
He would look good in a Liverpool shirt.


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## fundy (Jan 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Have you put Rice on your Christmas list?
He would look good in a Liverpool shirt.
		
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Think there will be an auction for him in the summer IF West Ham arent in the CL. Be very surprised if any of the top 3 sides arent in for him


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			Think there will be an auction for him in the summer IF West Ham arent in the CL. Be very surprised if any of the top 3 sides arent in for him
		
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With us having Fabinho I can’t see the club looking at him , would prefer Bellingham . United is the club that would really need him - Chelsea might want to pair him with Kante


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 16, 2022)

Can't understand Rafa saying he was surprised at the size of the task https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59532271 Surely that's why you have meetings with the board and do some research into the squad and what might be needed. At the end of the day a manager not capable of assembling a side, getting them to play together and find a way to change things when they weren't working. I wonder if that'll be him done as a PL manager


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## IanM (Jan 16, 2022)

Aldershot manager Mark Mosley before the game on Saturday  Bit of a wind up, assume it was for the sound check!


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## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			The WHU vs Leeds game was funto watch.
The quality of passing, first touch and control was absolutely awful.
The levels of effort and commitment were commendable.
Dan James, he's just awful.
I think Leeds were worthy winners today.
Declan Rice ............................ a Rolls Royce cruising amongst the bedlam, he really is a class apart.
		
Click to expand...

He will be England captain one day. Kane isn't a leader tbh. He isn't even spurs captain. Great striker not a good leader 

Liverpool I think unfortunately would be perfect for rice .. Henderson getting on would be a great replacement

City he would be one of many 

Chelsea can't afford to buy back another one they let go.

Man United have too many problems , they need to sort that out first 

Anyone else he would be lowering himself as he can push us further with him in team so why leave to be the same? Arsenal and spurs are better sides but he will want to be challenging for cups 

On a side note with Everton why sell digne If sacking Rafa was even an option


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			On a side note with Everton why sell digne If sacking Rafa was even an option
		
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They had bought his replacement so one in, one out. Now, why go ahead with the purchase................? It's why we have an unbalanced squad with a mix of players bought by multiple managers. Next guy comes in, might not like the new left back and the mess gets deeper. Another player on a 3-4 yr contract that we can't move on as his wages are PL level. Hopefully, of course, he will be a good player and we have done well out of it. Saying that, Villa have got a proven PL player who will provide plenty of assists and is a very good defender to boot. You don't want to lose players like that.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They had bought his replacement so one in, one out. Now, why go ahead with the purchase................? It's why we have an unbalanced squad with a mix of players bought by multiple managers. Next guy comes in, might not like the new left back and the mess gets deeper. Another player on a 3-4 yr contract that we can't move on as his wages are PL level. Hopefully, of course, he will be a good player and we have done well out of it. Saying that, Villa have got a proven PL player who will provide plenty of assists and is a very good defender to boot. You don't want to lose players like that.
		
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Right in his prime aswell. Such a good player 

I'm gutted we didn't go for him


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## pendodave (Jan 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Have you put Rice on your Christmas list?
He would look good in a Liverpool shirt.
		
Click to expand...

Oi. Stop that!
I was unfortunate enough to be present this afternoon.
It reminded me of one of my son's youth football games, where we had a lad that ended up going pro, but the other 10 were just normal... 
Fair play to Leeds though, pressed hard all game, moved the ball well and never looked in trouble at the back (except for corners).
I don't think there's another team in the prem who would be playing our central defence. 
Was an enjoyable day out despite all that. Better than staying at home and watching the telly, and definitely better than my golf game.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Oi. Stop that!
I was unfortunate enough to be present this afternoon.
It reminded me of one of my son's youth football games, where we had a lad that ended up going pro, but the other 10 were just normal...
Fair play to Leeds though, pressed hard all game, moved the ball well and never looked in trouble at the back (except for corners).
I don't think there's another team in the prem who would be playing our central defence.
Was an enjoyable day out despite all that. Better than staying at home and watching the telly, and definitely better than my golf game.
		
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Dawson is ok, when zouma is back we will be fine..diop is 4th choice for a reason


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 16, 2022)

Given Rice is only 23 he'll be a permanent England fixture for many years to come. Sadly money will talk and he'll go to Liverpool, City or maybe one of the big European clubs. He is a class act and hopefully will only get better and better


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## pauljames87 (Jan 16, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Given Rice is only 23 he'll be a permanent England fixture for many years to come. Sadly money will talk and he'll go to Liverpool, City or maybe one of the big European clubs. He is a class act and hopefully will only get better and better
		
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He really seems to just enjoy football which is refreshing

Wouldnt mind see him go to Madrid or barca but both are skint ATM 

He under contract for like 5 more years but he will go this summer or next


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## BiMGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Oi. Stop that!
I was unfortunate enough to be present this afternoon.
It reminded me of one of my son's youth football games, where we had a lad that ended up going pro, but the other 10 were just normal...
Fair play to Leeds though, pressed hard all game, moved the ball well and never looked in trouble at the back (except for corners).
I don't think there's another team in the prem who would be playing our central defence.
Was an enjoyable day out despite all that. Better than staying at home and watching the telly, and definitely better than my golf game.
		
Click to expand...

Rice was excellent today, when the rest of the team weren’t quite at it.

Shame Philips was injured as it would be good to see them playing against each other whilst on form.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He really seems to just enjoy football which is refreshing

Wouldnt mind see him go to Madrid or barca but both are skint ATM

He under contract for like 5 more years but he will go this summer or next
		
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Seems to be a few players going to Germany and doing well. Could see him playing for Bayern


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## Fade and Die (Jan 16, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Oi. Stop that!
I was unfortunate enough to be present this afternoon.
It reminded me of one of my son's youth football games, where we had a lad that ended up going pro, but the other 10 were just normal...
Fair play to Leeds though, pressed hard all game, moved the ball well and never looked in trouble at the back (except for corners).
I don't think there's another team in the prem who would be playing our central defence.
Was an enjoyable day out despite all that. Better than staying at home and watching the telly, and definitely better than my golf game.
		
Click to expand...


Very tired performance today, Leeds have played twice since 18th December we have played 7. And it showed.
Fair play to Leeds though they worked incredibly hard, pressed us out the game and deserved the result. Having said that we had enough chances to have got something today so I’m not too upset, need players in though badly…. the bench is threadbare and we have players running on fumes.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			Think there will be an auction for him in the summer IF West Ham arent in the CL. Be very surprised if any of the top 3 sides arent in for him
		
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For me he’s just behind KDB.
First thought is forward 
Hendo won’t last forever Rice is a perfect replacement.
But there is room for both of them


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## Swango1980 (Jan 17, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Duncan Ferguson will soon be with his 9th manager - amazing that he continues to stay there as each manager leaves

the disallowed goal in the Leeds match is strange one , the guy is on the line , it’s going in regardless but I guess he’s disallowed because it hit him -
		
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Offside is offside though, and if it hits your offside team mate before crossing the line, it is offside. If it wasn't offside, the technically the goal scorer is the guy who was offside, as it touched him last.

Also, there'd be uproar if the goal was given. The ref and VAR could very much be accused of making the rules up as they please. They're argument of "well, it was going in anyway" would he laughable and set a dangerous precedent for any similar incidents in future. The officials may make horror mistakes, but I hope they never become God like in F1 and just do as they please.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 17, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482819481261035522


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2022)




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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Jim, this twitter thread sums up your feelings on all this much better than you can.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482735210403966981

Click to expand...

Nothing better than your mate sticking up for you, but sorry Guillem, 5 points since September is fairly and squarely on Benitez.

Since he joined he’s got rid of Everton’s Director of Medical, Head of Recruitment, Manager of Scouting, Director of Football and Lucas Digne, James & Bernard.

But according to him he hasn’t been protected by those who brought him in or even look after him! Please

Thankfully brought Gray and even Townsend in, but what was his plan?

I wanted him to have at least 2 years, but that first half saturday was one of the worst displays I’ve seen in over 50 years.

A couple of Reds did say he was bad towards the end of his time at LPool, very stuck in his ways rumours of falling out with players and we didn’t that Rafa turning up, we needed the one they got at the beginning.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Nothing better than your mate sticking up for you, but sorry Guillem, 5 points since September is fairly and squarely on Benitez.

Since he joined he’s got rid of Everton’s Director of Medical, Head of Recruitment, Manager of Scouting, Director of Football and Lucas Digne, James & Bernard.

But according to him he hasn’t been protected by those who brought him in or even look after him! Please

Thankfully brought Gray and even Townsend in, but what was his plan?

I wanted him to have at least 2 years, but that first half saturday was one of the worst displays I’ve seen in over 50 years.

A couple of Reds did say he was bad towards the end of his time at LPool, very stuck in his ways rumours of falling out with players and we didn’t that Rafa turning up, we needed the one they got at the beginning.
		
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The numbers don't lie, sadly, and we haven't been 'unlucky ' in matches. Performances have been poor, it's not clear what he was trying to do. Where he has been unlucky is the loss of DCL but he is culpable for bringing in Rondon so that is on him.

Scary so far, Martinez and Rooney are the two leading names 😱. Hopefully that is early paper talk.


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## Jimaroid (Jan 17, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Nothing better than your mate sticking up for you, but sorry Guillem, 5 points since September is fairly and squarely on Benitez.
		
Click to expand...

There's a large element of mates defence there, yes. But I thought it reflected my wider concerns quite well. Looking from the outside in (because that's all we get) the only pattern of behaviour I see from the club is a long sequence of chaotic decisions without any direction or vision. It's not a pattern that's unique to Rafa, we've been doing it repeatedly, so if it keeps happening with each new manager we bring in, who's responsible? I'm just angry that we keep making the same mistakes, that there's no long term strategy and that we have been awful at playing football for so bloody long. 😭

I was hoping Rafa would get more time but I also agree some of his decisions have been really bad. There were some glimmers of hope with him, even though some of the better performances are probably more down to luck than anything else. And, fair play to him, Pickford's been under pressure to perform miracles and without the good one turning up to so many games I think we would have conceded a lot more. There's just no escaping the hard facts of the scoresheets, Rafa was done for.

So back to the "What the flaps are we doing now?" question.

Martinez? MARTINEZ? The Martinez who sued us for 10 million last time he was fired? That Martinez?

ARRRGGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH!

We're so bad I wouldn't be surprised if we're approaching Rafa to replace himself.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 17, 2022)

If not Martinez or Rooney, who would Everton fans want to have (that is at least a semi realistic option)? I assume it is a no for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If not Martinez or Rooney, who would Everton fans want to have (that is at least a semi realistic option)? I assume it is a no for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer?
		
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I'd wave a big cheque at Graham Potter. If i was Potter's agent I'd tell him to turn it down but hopefully he fancies a bit of life in the North 😄.


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd wave a big cheque at Graham Potter. If i was Potter's agent I'd tell him to turn it down but hopefully he fancies a bit of life in the North 😄.
		
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Genuinely struggle to see one reason why Potter would leave Brighton for Newcastle (along with most of the other jobs he gets linked to)


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			Genuinely struggle to see one reason why Potter would leave Brighton for Newcastle (along with most of the other jobs he gets linked to)
		
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I'm guessing you meant Everton. Yes, I'd agree. He has a very good set up there, it's a place that seems perfectly set up for him and what he wants to do. Saying that, I suspect he is not the highest paid in the league, won't have the biggest budget. If we could offer to double his pay, offer a big transfer budget in the summer then that may interest him. There is a glass ceiling at Brighton and he can't be far from it. Now there is also a ceiling at Everton in reality but we would be a step up the ladder for him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			There's a large element of mates defence there, yes. But I thought it reflected my wider concerns quite well. Looking from the outside in (because that's all we get) the only pattern of behaviour I see from the club is a long sequence of chaotic decisions without any direction or vision. It's not a pattern that's unique to Rafa, we've been doing it repeatedly, so if it keeps happening with each new manager we bring in, who's responsible? I'm just angry that we keep making the same mistakes, that there's no long term strategy and that we have been awful at playing football for so bloody long. 😭

I was hoping Rafa would get more time but I also agree some of his decisions have been really bad. There were some glimmers of hope with him, even though some of the better performances are probably more down to luck than anything else. And, fair play to him, Pickford's been under pressure to perform miracles and without the good one turning up to so many games I think we would have conceded a lot more. There's just no escaping the hard facts of the scoresheets, Rafa was done for.

So back to the "What the flaps are we doing now?" question.

Martinez? MARTINEZ? The Martinez who sued us for 10 million last time he was fired? That Martinez?

ARRRGGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH!

We're so bad I wouldn't be surprised if we're approaching Rafa to replace himself.
		
Click to expand...

We have to remember the names we are hearing are from the media, I don’t know how much say Kenwright actually has when discussing these things, Moshiri can’t be blamed for it all as the problems started way before he took over, but to allow Benitez to do so much in 6 months they must of discussed what they expected him to do and over what period, he was unlucky with some injuries, but also fully responsible for team selection etc.

Some of the fans need to remember exactly were we are in PL and how long it’s been since we genuinely contended year after year and not just 1 in 5.

Some won’t be happy with who they choose, maybe we could do with a Rooney type in the summer if we stay in the PL and he keeps Derby in the championship, Moyes wasn’t a big name signing he came from the championship so maybe we should be looking for hungry championship managers looking to build and prove themselves.


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## Golfmmad (Jan 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd wave a big cheque at Graham Potter. If i was Potter's agent I'd tell him to turn it down but hopefully he fancies a bit of life in the North 😄.
		
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I usually like your posts LT, keep yer hands off our Graham! 😁


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm guessing you meant Everton. Yes, I'd agree. He has a very good set up there, it's a place that seems perfectly set up for him and what he wants to do. Saying that, I suspect he is not the highest paid in the league, won't have the biggest budget. If we could offer to double his pay, offer a big transfer budget in the summer then that may interest him. There is a glass ceiling at Brighton and he can't be far from it. Now there is also a ceiling at Everton in reality but we would be a step up the ladder for him.
		
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genuinely think the same whether Newcastle or Everton. both of those have issues above (ownership/expectations at Newc, board at Everton), think Brighton a better job for him until one of the bigger boys come knocking (as seems inevitable with how he is regarded within the game). he has a really good relationship with Bloom, a decent analytic based player purchase system that is clearly streets ahead of whats on offer at either of the other two, and less pressure attached

why is there a glass ceiling at Brighton that is below Evertons currently? not sure I see that apart from based on 10+ years ago history. as for salary, he'll get that when the big job does come along

(fwiw i thought exactly the same when he was linked to arsenal and tottenham too)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			genuinely think the same whether Newcastle or Everton. both of those have issues above (ownership/expectations at Newc, board at Everton), think Brighton a better job for him until one of the bigger boys come knocking (as seems inevitable with how he is regarded within the game). he has a really good relationship with Bloom, a decent analytic based player purchase system that is clearly streets ahead of whats on offer at either of the other two, and less pressure attached

why is there a glass ceiling at Brighton that is below Evertons currently? not sure I see that apart from based on 10+ years ago history. as for salary, he'll get that when the big job does come along

(fwiw i thought exactly the same when he was linked to arsenal and tottenham too)
		
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Spot on, genuinely can’t see 1 footballing reason why he’d come to us at present.

Only reason would be if he wanted a big pay day, but I think he’s got more about him than to be that shallow at the present time.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			genuinely think the same whether Newcastle or Everton. both of those have issues above (ownership/expectations at Newc, board at Everton), think Brighton a better job for him until one of the bigger boys come knocking (as seems inevitable with how he is regarded within the game). he has a really good relationship with Bloom, a decent analytic based player purchase system that is clearly streets ahead of whats on offer at either of the other two, and less pressure attached

why is there a glass ceiling at Brighton that is below Evertons currently? not sure I see that apart from based on 10+ years ago history. as for salary, he'll get that when the big job does come along

(fwiw i thought exactly the same when he was linked to arsenal and tottenham too)
		
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Ultimately teams tend to end up in the table based on spending, salaries etc. There will always be exceptions but it is usually not far out. The spend and wages at Brighton are far below Everton, far below the numerous better teams than ourselves. It suggests Brighton are punching above their weight, as we are punching below ours, and in the end things will right themselves again. Bigger teams will come along and buy their better players, can they keep finding gems?

Interestingly, Potter is never mentioned for the utd job. Why not? The old, we need a big name, what has he won? Perhaps he needs to do well at a next level club before he gets talked about. I think the talk is wrong and he should be mentioned but maybe we can take advantage?

I've just done a quick Google. If the figures are right he is on around £1.75m. Lovely money. The same info suggests we paid Ancelloti £11m and I doubt Rafa is on significantly less. I don't know what they would offer our next manager but it's going to ve way more than £1.75m


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## Golfmmad (Jan 17, 2022)

It'll be interesting to see how Brighton fare against Chelsea tomorrow. With so many of their top players out injured. 
Dunk, Duffy, Llana, Mwepu and Bissouma playing in the AFCON. Yes all clubs have injury problems but Brightons are all first choice players.


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It'll be interesting to see how Brighton fare against Chelsea tomorrow. With so many of their top players out injured.
Dunk, Duffy, Llana, Mwepu and Bissouma playing in the AFCON. Yes all clubs have injury problems but Brightons are all first choice players.
		
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should just ask the prem league to postpone it, everyone else is


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## Jimaroid (Jan 17, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Some of the fans need to remember exactly were we are in PL and how long it’s been since we genuinely contended year after year and not just 1 in 5.
		
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I’d happily aim mid table for a few years if it meant we could clear the decks and rebuild a cheaper and more cohesive squad. Only then might we be able to talk about contending for something without embarrassing ourselves again.


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ultimately teams tend to end up in the table based on spending, salaries etc. There will always be exceptions but it is usually not far out. The spend and wages at Brighton are far below Everton, far below the numerous better teams than ourselves. It suggests Brighton are punching above their weight, as we are punching below ours, and in the end things will right themselves again. Bigger teams will come along and buy their better players, can they keep finding gems?

Interestingly, Potter is never mentioned for the utd job. Why not? The old, we need a big name, what has he won? Perhaps he needs to do well at a next level club before he gets talked about. I think the talk is wrong and he should be mentioned but maybe we can take advantage?

I've just done a quick Google. If the figures are right he is on around £1.75m. Lovely money. The same info suggests we paid Ancelloti £11m and I doubt Rafa is on significantly less. I don't know what they would offer our next manager but it's going to ve way more than £1.75m
		
Click to expand...


Well offer him £10m a year and see if he bites then  Id bet the house Graham Potter isnt your next manager, because apart from an inflated salary everything else would be a downgrade on his current situation and think he is on a decent path


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			Well offer him £10m a year and see if he bites then  Id bet the house Graham Potter isnt your next manager, because apart from an inflated salary everything else would be a downgrade on his current situation and think he is on a decent path
		
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Sadly I'd agree with you. I just answered 'who would you like'? 🤷


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## Golfmmad (Jan 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			should just ask the prem league to postpone it, everyone else is 

Click to expand...

I doubt that will happen, you meant that tongue in cheek right? 😉


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## Hobbit (Jan 17, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			There's a large element of mates defence there, yes. But I thought it reflected my wider concerns quite well. Looking from the outside in (because that's all we get) the only pattern of behaviour I see from the club is a long sequence of chaotic decisions without any direction or vision. It's not a pattern that's unique to Rafa, we've been doing it repeatedly, so if it keeps happening with each new manager we bring in, who's responsible? I'm just angry that we keep making the same mistakes, that there's no long term strategy and that we have been awful at playing football for so bloody long. 😭

I was hoping Rafa would get more time but I also agree some of his decisions have been really bad. There were some glimmers of hope with him, even though some of the better performances are probably more down to luck than anything else. And, fair play to him, Pickford's been under pressure to perform miracles and without the good one turning up to so many games I think we would have conceded a lot more. There's just no escaping the hard facts of the scoresheets, Rafa was done for.

So back to the "What the flaps are we doing now?" question.

Martinez? MARTINEZ? The Martinez who sued us for 10 million last time he was fired? That Martinez?

ARRRGGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH!

We're so bad I wouldn't be surprised if we're approaching Rafa to replace himself.
		
Click to expand...

Been doing it since Moyes left, as Utd have done since Fergie left. Unfortunately, Everton have reached a point where the squad is pitiful and lacking in depth. It’ll take way more than a change of manager to right the ship.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 17, 2022)

Would Martinez be a bad move. Has got more experience since leaving. Not sure they will attract a "big name" so where do Everton go. Not sure Rooney is the man although he's doing a good job in crippling circumstances. Clearly there is an element of discontent within the squad that needs to be quelled and they need new players but not sure how much the Everton name would appeal at the moment


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Been doing it since Moyes left, as Utd have done since Fergie left. Unfortunately, Everton have reached a point where the squad is pitiful and lacking in depth. It’ll take way more than a change of manager to right the ship.
		
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I don’t believe the squad is pitiful Bri, it’s not the strongest I agree, but with the right manager and luck with injuries (as per every other team wants) I believe we are capable of top 8-10, that’s what I was hoping from Benitez and then next season looking at 6-8.

Ancelotti had us playing some good stuff and I think 4th at Christmas before our home form fell away, he left and with Benitez’s experience I thought he’d make us harder to beat and keep us midtable in his first season, I didn’t expect him to weaken us and fall out with players, also tactically he made some very strange decisions, ie Coleman at LB and Digne as a Sub.


----------



## Hobbit (Jan 17, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t believe the squad is pitiful Bri, it’s not the strongest I agree, but with the right manager and luck with injuries (as per every other team wants) I believe we are capable of top 8-10, that’s what I was hoping from Benitez and then next season looking at 6-8.

Ancelotti had us playing some good stuff and I think 4th at Christmas before our home form fell away, he left and with Benitez’s experience I thought he’d make us harder to beat and keep us midtable in his first season, I didn’t expect him to weaken us and fall out with players, also tactically he made some very strange decisions, ie Coleman at LB and Digne as a Sub.
		
Click to expand...

Individually, it’s Utd’s squad, i.e. Some good players, but, who just can’t play together anymore. Sacking Benitez is only the start point on a difficult road. Half the team needs to go, if only to change the mindset. If that doesn’t happen, I think Everton will only oscillate around mid table.


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## Fade and Die (Jan 17, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Been doing it since Moyes left, as Utd have done since Fergie left. Unfortunately, Everton have reached a point where the squad is pitiful and lacking in depth. It’ll take way more than a change of manager to right the ship.
		
Click to expand...

I swore out loud when Adrian Durham on Talksport kept saying they should get Moyes back! 🤬
If we sell Rice and don’t back him I could see it happening. Be a good fit too.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Individually, it’s Utd’s squad, i.e. Some good players, but, who just can’t play together anymore. Sacking Benitez is only the start point on a difficult road. Half the team needs to go, if only to change the mindset. If that doesn’t happen,* I think Everton will only oscillate around mid table.*

Click to expand...

I’ll take that right now.



Fade and Die said:



			I swore out loud when Adrian Durham on Talksport kept saying they should get Moyes back! 🤬
If we sell Rice and don’t back him I could see it happening. Be a good fit too.
		
Click to expand...

Moyes isn’t coming back, A. Why would he? and B. Durham’s an idiot.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 17, 2022)

Does Duncan Ferguson never want to become the main man permanently, or is he happy being the No 2?


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Would Martinez be a bad move. Has got more experience since leaving. Not sure they will attract a "big name" so where do Everton go. Not sure Rooney is the man although he's doing a good job in crippling circumstances. Clearly there is an element of discontent within the squad that needs to be quelled and they need new players but not sure how much the Everton name would appeal at the moment
		
Click to expand...


didnt Martinez take them to court for about £10m after they fired him?


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I doubt that will happen, you meant that tongue in cheek right? 😉
		
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i wish i did


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2022)

https://www.90min.com/posts/fifpro-men-s-world-xi-for-2021-revealed-01fsmppn8mw0/amp

*FIFPro Men's World XI 2021: Donnarumma; Dias, Alaba, Bonucci; Jorginho, Kante, De Bruyne; Ronaldo, Haaland, Lewandowski, Messi*

Do we need to wait until Ronaldo and Messi retire before these awards become meaningful again

Salah in the top 3 of players yet Ronaldo in the team of year once again 😂😂😂😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.90min.com/posts/fifpro-men-s-world-xi-for-2021-revealed-01fsmppn8mw0/amp

*FIFPro Men's World XI 2021: Donnarumma; Dias, Alaba, Bonucci; Jorginho, Kante, De Bruyne; Ronaldo, Haaland, Lewandowski, Messi*

Do we need to wait until Ronaldo and Messi retire before these awards become meaningful again

Salah in the top 3 of players yet Ronaldo in the team of year once again 😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

When it allows fans to vote of course the likes of Ronaldo and Messi are going to be in there


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 18, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			When it allows fans to vote of course the likes of Ronaldo and Messi are going to be in there
		
Click to expand...

Is anyone actually bothered about these awards apart from kids that play FIFA on the PlayStation?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 18, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is anyone actually bothered about these awards apart from kids that play FIFA on the PlayStation?
		
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Liverpoolphil cares


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## pokerjoke (Jan 18, 2022)

Salah is not even the best player at Liverpool VVD is.
Can’t believe he’s not in it.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Liverpoolphil cares
		
Click to expand...

It tends to be the social media fans that get upset if anyone suggests a opposition player is better than one of “their” own 🤷‍♂️


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## Beezerk (Jan 18, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			It tends to be the social media fans that get upset if anyone suggests a opposition player is better than one of “their” own 🤷‍♂️
		
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YouTube clappers? 😅


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2022)

blimey - it’s like files around the proverbial, all came out the woodwork for a little cheap dig 

My number one stalker has his own little group 😂😂😂😂😂


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## pokerjoke (Jan 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			blimey - it’s like files around the proverbial, all came out the woodwork for a little cheap dig

My number one stalker has his own little group 😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Hardly out of the woodwork,we are always ready to jump on you when your whining.
Salah is only big in Liverpool and Egypt so not worldwide.


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## stefanovic (Jan 18, 2022)

Any amusingly named football teams in your area?

Don't think you'll beat these.
20 Funny Real Football Team Names (openplay.co.uk) 

Nearest to me me might be Bilbrook Santos, but they don't play in Brazil.
Wolverhampton.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			blimey - it’s like files around the proverbial, all came out the woodwork for a little cheap dig

My number one stalker has his own little group 😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I know, it's very sad, but funny.

Some of these people have kids - dad can you play with me, read me a story, please? No, I'm only up to 20 likes tonight against Liverpool Phil, or anti-Liverpool posts.

The lives some people lead.......awaiting the likes....


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## pokerjoke (Jan 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know, it's very sad, but funny.

Some of these people have kids - dad can you play with me, read me a story, please? No, I'm only up to 20 likes tonight against Liverpool Phil, or anti-Liverpool posts.

The lives some people lead.......awaiting the likes....

Click to expand...

Have you been back over your history of the football threads over the years.
Funny my kids are grown up Phils is still young,how’s that argument stack up.
I’m sure if your kids read some of your posts they would be super proud


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## DanFST (Jan 18, 2022)

Leave it out chaps. This isn't funny, just petty.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know, it's very sad, but funny.

Some of these people have kids - dad can you play with me, read me a story, please? 
No I’m arguing with people on social media

The lives some people lead.......awaiting the likes....

Click to expand...

Oh look you’ve got your customary like 😜


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know, it's very sad, but funny.

Some of these people have kids - dad can you play with me, read me a story, please? No, I'm only up to 20 likes tonight against Liverpool Phil, or anti-Liverpool posts.

The lives some people lead.......awaiting the likes....

Click to expand...

Within football there is always lots of banter and most of the time it’s great and have some great chats and debates with various different fans of many teams online and offline 

But its not banter for some - it’s just pathetic childish little sniping with no purpose beyond scoring a point.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Within football there is always lots of banter and most of the time it’s great and have some great chats and debates with various different fans of many teams online and offline

But its not banter for some - it’s just pathetic childish little sniping with no purpose beyond scoring a point.
		
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Seriously Phil you’re in no position 🤦‍♂️
Mr popular


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 18, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Leave it out chaps. This isn't funny, just petty.
		
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They started it.


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			They started it. 

Click to expand...


thatll be our excuse when we get the Carabao game called off this week


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			thatll be our excuse when we get the Carabao game called off this week 

Click to expand...

Is it called off again ? Didn’t another player leave out on loan today ?


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it called off again ? Didn’t another player leave out on loan today ?
		
Click to expand...


Kolasinac? no he was sold (well left permanently, dont expect theres much of a fee if any involved) 

I expect the game will go ahead but if it doesnt there will be no complaints from Liverpool lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			Kolasinac? no he was sold (well left permanently, dont expect theres much of a fee if any involved) 

I expect the game will go ahead but if it doesnt there will be no complaints from Liverpool lol
		
Click to expand...

Pablo Mari has also left on loan it seems ?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 18, 2022)

It appears Real Madrid accepted a bid from Newcastle for Hazard, although Hazard turned them down.


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pablo Mari has also left on loan it seems ?
		
Click to expand...


dont think the deals done but yes hes going too hopefully


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## Tashyboy (Jan 18, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Salah is not even the best player at Liverpool VVD is.
Can’t believe he’s not in it.
		
Click to expand...

seriously, this is a vote for 2021.  VVD spent longer on the treatment table than Darren Anderton ever did. or are you fishing 😉


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## Tashyboy (Jan 18, 2022)

The player that should not be in that team

Cristiano RONALDO (Portugal/Manchester United FC) 

Ronaldo has been as consistent as ever despite moving to a Manchester United team that has been struggling. The Portuguese makes the line-up after winning the Coppa Italia with Juventus and *making a triumphant return to Old Trafford *

copied and pasted from another site 😂


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## Slime (Jan 18, 2022)

It seems that Everton are considering Mourinho as next permanent manager.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			It seems that Everton are considering Mourinho as next permanent manager.
		
Click to expand...

So it appears https://www.skysports.com/football/...-consideration-to-become-next-everton-manager

Roma are 7th and so he's hardly ripping up trees in Serie A. Seems to me a busted flush but how good is Lampard when he hasn't got the luxury of an all star team? Rooney would clearly be a popular choice given his history and he seems to be getting a tune out of Derby despite all the shenanigans going on behind the scenes including them potentially going out of business in the next 2-3 weeks. At lest he'd be a free agent


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			It seems that Everton are considering Mourinho as next permanent manager.
		
Click to expand...

🤯
He’s had his day imo.
I’d give him 1 season.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 18, 2022)




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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2022)




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## Jensen (Jan 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			It seems that Everton are considering Mourinho as next permanent manager.
		
Click to expand...

That’ll be a disaster. 
No doubt he’ll fall out with Richarlison.


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## Jensen (Jan 18, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			🤯
He’s had his day imo.
I’d give him 1 season.
		
Click to expand...

1 season…..1 games too long for him. He’ll cause even more problems.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			It seems that Everton are considering Mourinho as next permanent manager.
		
Click to expand...

It lasted 21 minutes.


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## Jimaroid (Jan 18, 2022)

Lads. Please. We’re so bad they’re considering my gran and she’s dead.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 18, 2022)

If only Fulham could carry this form into the PL next season. Sadly we're no doubt sell half the squad again and spunk millions on new players and be cannon fodder again.


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## 3offTheTee (Jan 18, 2022)

Sad News and not one for you ‘kids’ on here. Gento died today, great player and remember him against Eintract Frankfurt 1963 @Ibrox. . Must be one of the best European Cup Finals ever 7-3.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 18, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Sad News and not one for you ‘kids’ on here. Gento died today, great player and remember him against Eintract Frankfurt 1963 @Ibrox. . Must be one of the best European Cup Finals ever 7-3.
		
Click to expand...

88 so a decent innings and a six time European Cup winner https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60037044


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## 3offTheTee (Jan 18, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If only Fulham could carry this form into the PL next season. Sadly we're no doubt sell half the squad again and spunk millions on new players and be cannon fodder again.
		
Click to expand...

You have not won yet HJS? Sure you will be you have a reverse fixture against my club which you hammered in November. Really hope your health is better Martin.


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2022)

Fulham at it again, 4 up by half time


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2022)

bit of luck, Parteys already on a flight home


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 18, 2022)

Brighton played some really nice football there.
But the lack of a final ball is holding them back.
Good game though.


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## Orikoru (Jan 19, 2022)

Christ, the Everton manager odds make depressing reading. You have to skip down to 20/1 before you find anyone you'd actually want.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Christ, the Everton manager odds make depressing reading. You have to skip down to 20/1 before you find anyone you'd actually want.
		
Click to expand...

The odds for the next England manager are not much better. Joint favourites on Betfair are either Dean Smith or Sean Dyche, both at 5/1. The likes of Potter, Gerrard, Lampard are 10/1 or worse.

Notable others, Benitez or Gary Neville at 25/1, Beckham or Emma Hayes at 33/1, Hodgson at 50/1, Steve Bruce, Michael Owen or Rio at 75/1, Carragher, Scholes or Allardyce at 100/1


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The odds for the next England manager are not much better. Joint favourites on Betfair are either Dean Smith or Sean Dyche, both at 5/1. The likes of Potter, Gerrard, Lampard are 10/1 or worse.

*Notable others, Benitez or Gary Neville at 25/1, Beckham or Emma Hayes at 33/1, Hodgson at 50/1, Steve Bruce, Michael Owen or Rio at 75/1, Carragher, Scholes or Allardyce at 100/1*

Click to expand...

Who adds those names? Do they throw them in after a night on the beer?


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## Orikoru (Jan 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Who adds those names? Do they throw them in after a night on the beer?
		
Click to expand...

Probably from tripe like SunBet (was it them who offered those odds on the non-league player eating a pie?). If they ever appoint a woman as the men's team manager in my lifetime I'll be shocked. Got to laugh how Bruce is the same odds as Michael Owen though. Poor guy, the disrespect is real.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Probably from tripe like SunBet (was it them who offered those odds on the non-league player eating a pie?). If they ever appoint a woman as the men's team manager in my lifetime I'll be shocked. Got to laugh how Bruce is the same odds as Michael Owen though. Poor guy, the disrespect is real. 

Click to expand...

And that they think it is more likely Beckham, Emma Hayes or Roy Hodgson are more likely to be appointed than Steve Bruce.


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## davidy233 (Jan 19, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Sad News and not one for you ‘kids’ on here. Gento died today, great player and remember him against Eintract Frankfurt 1963 @Ibrox. . Must be one of the best European Cup Finals ever 7-3.
		
Click to expand...

My dad was at Hampden for the European Cup final between Real and Eintracht in 1960 and raved about Gento. He took me to Stamford Bridge to watch a Great Britain against Europe legends game in 1972. We basically only went to see Gento (and Puskas) but there's some top names in these lineups - if you'd asked me if I ever saw Billy Wright play, or Ernst Happel I'd have said 'before my time' - looking back at the line ups apparently not!

Teams were:
The GB line-up was:

Jack Kelsey, George Cohen, Jimmy Armfield, Danny Blanchflower (Jimmy Hill), Billy Wright (Mel Hopkins), Pat Crerand, Dave Sexton, Bryan Douglas, John Charles, Johnny Haynes, Frank Blunstone.

Scorers: Charles 3, Haynes.

Europe team:

Gyula Grosics; Dezso Novak, Branko Zebec, Kalman Meszoly, Willi Schulz, Ernst Happel (Bennie Muller), Ferenc Sipos, Sandor Matrai, Juste Fontaine, Ferenc Puskas, Francesco Gento.

Scorers: Meszoly, Puskas, Muller, Happel, Gento.


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## fundy (Jan 19, 2022)

So an Arsenal player being investigated for odd betting patterns on him to be booked earlier in the season. Anyone want to lay me a price its the clown at Leeds lol


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Who adds those names? Do they throw them in after a night on the beer?
		
Click to expand...

Mate, you need think about it, Southgate is under contract for another 2 years, so, unless he resigns or does something daft (unlikely) then the bookies will fill it with strange, nonsensical starters in the hope some clown wastes their money on putting a bet on it now. Bookies aren’t daft at getting fools and their money to seperate.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 19, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, you need think about it, Southgate is under contract for another 2 years, so, unless he resigns or does something daft (unlikely) then the bookies will fill it with strange, nonsensical starters in the hope some clown wastes their money on putting a bet on it now. Bookies aren’t daft at getting fools and their money to seperate.
		
Click to expand...

I don't bet so I guess I look at these things too literally. What you say makes sense 👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't bet so I guess I look at these things too literally. What you say makes sense 👍
		
Click to expand...

I just couldn’t think why anyone would be interested in looking at Southgate’s replacement and the bookies seem excellent at making money.


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## Billysboots (Jan 19, 2022)

Ronaldo showing the body language of a player who will not be at Old Trafford next season.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 19, 2022)

Some comeback by Spurs


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## GG26 (Jan 19, 2022)

I can’t believe what I just witnessed.  How can you be leading in the last minute of injury time and manage to lose the match!

I don’t rate John Moss as a ref and today confirmed it.  Of course I am biased, but the decisions only seemed to go one way.  Twice he even gave free kicks to Spurs when the Leicester player was fouled.   In the last couple of minutes Steve Bergwin raised his arms and shoved one of our players to the ground - could have been a red.

On a more positive note James Justin had his first appearance for eleven months and looked sharp.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 20, 2022)

GG26 said:



			I can’t believe what I just witnessed.  How can you be leading in the last minute of injury time and manage to lose the match!

I don’t rate John Moss as a ref and today confirmed it.  Of course I am biased, but the decisions only seemed to go one way.  Twice he even gave free kicks to Spurs when the Leicester player was fouled.   In the last couple of minutes Steve Bergwin raised his arms and shoved one of our players to the ground - could have been a red.

On a more positive note James Justin had his first appearance for eleven months and looked sharp.
		
Click to expand...

What a open game that was both teams playing progressive football was a joy to watch. 

The amount of chances we had in the first half we should have had the game sown up, Spurs looked very fit and really up for the game must have something to do with having played less games. 

I was glad when we equalized as I thought a draw would have been a fair result but what a crazy finish. 

Although Bergwin laid hands on your defender and pushed him in the box that was never going to be a red card. 

What was your team doing throwing away the draw at the end Rodger’s must have been livid when he went in, you must be gutted. 

Great game though 👍


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## Orikoru (Jan 20, 2022)

Leicester were a bit 'Spursy' I thought.   Didn't get to watch it, so imagine my surprise when I saw Bergwijn had scored two goals deep in injury time. Normally struggles to hit the target so some feat from him.


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## arnieboy (Jan 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Leicester were a bit 'Spursy' I thought.   Didn't get to watch it, so imagine my surprise when I saw Bergwijn had scored two goals deep in injury. Normally struggles to hit the target so some feat from him.
		
Click to expand...

Same here, didn't watch the game and was stunned when I saw that Spurs had scored two very late goals. A great result, just need to turn Chelski over at the weekend.


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## Orikoru (Jan 20, 2022)

arnieboy said:



			Same here, didn't watch the game and was stunned when I saw that Spurs had scored two very late goals. A great result, just need to turn Chelski over at the weekend.
		
Click to expand...

Well that obviously won't happen.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 20, 2022)

You 2 missed a great game end to end the whole game best game I’ve seen Spurs this season. 

Need to better defensively Sunday will be a much different game maybe the other poor sods will still be tired. 😂


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## fundy (Jan 20, 2022)

GG26 said:



			I can’t believe what I just witnessed.  How can you be leading in the last minute of injury time and manage to lose the match!

I don’t rate John Moss as a ref and today confirmed it.  Of course I am biased, but the decisions only seemed to go one way.  Twice he even gave free kicks to Spurs when the Leicester player was fouled.   In the last couple of minutes Steve Bergwin raised his arms and shoved one of our players to the ground - could have been a red.

On a more positive note James Justin had his first appearance for eleven months and looked sharp.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure Id be blaming Moss for what happened at the end last night as bad as he is. Poor old Soyuncu getting felled by a little push by someone not even 10 stone dripping wet lol and then going complete walk about and Kaspar not knowing if hes coming or going and doing neither (almost every top keeper wouldve got to the final goal way before Bergwyn did)

As you say great to see Justin back, decent player and been a long time out


----------



## Golfmmad (Jan 20, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			You 2 missed a great game end to end the whole game best game I’ve seen Spurs this season.

Need to better defensively Sunday will be a much different game maybe the other poor sods will still be tired. 😂
		
Click to expand...

It was indeed a great game and Conte seems to have got spurs firing on all cylinders again. Kane looked sharp and back to his best, could have had a hat trick in the first half but for some last ditch defending and hitting the bar. 
I agree with Schmeichel comment, I thought he would come out to stop Bergwyin scoring. 
Overall a great game for the neutral!


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			So an Arsenal player being investigated for odd betting patterns on him to be booked earlier in the season. Anyone want to lay me a price its the clown at Leeds lol
		
Click to expand...

You were on the money by the way. Someone stuck 60 grand on Xhaka to get booked, while there was only 10 or 15 minutes left. He booted Raphinha and got away with it, then subsequently got a yellow card for timewasting when he simply stood over a free kick for about 2 minutes. In the grand scheme of things though, it often looks like Xhaka is trying to get carded on purpose, so quite hard to prove this one, haha. Maybe all this time he's been like Mickey from Snatch - "that's when I realised, he's always got money on himself..."


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 20, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It was indeed a great game and Conte seems to have got spurs firing on all cylinders again. Kane looked sharp and back to his best, could have had a hat trick in the first half but for some last ditch defending and hitting the bar.
I agree with Schmeichel comment, I thought he would come out to stop Bergwyin scoring.
Overall a great game for the neutral!
		
Click to expand...

Kane just loves scoring against Leicester for some reason. It's like he took their title win over us as a personal insult, since then he's scored so many goals against them.


----------



## fundy (Jan 20, 2022)

season over, not even the end of january and artetas the messiah according to most, something doesnt add up! completely outplayed by Liverpool, not surprisingly as we are every time we play anyone decent. good to see us knocking about in our own half when 2-0 down too 

lol Partey been home 5 mins and another red for our midfield, obv needs a holiday


ps assume we wont be hearing Liverpool fans complaining about sides timewasting in future


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2022)




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## davidy233 (Jan 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 40734

Click to expand...

If you win it does Kenny Daglish's daughter get a medal


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2022)

davidy233 said:



			If you win it does Kenny Daglish's daughter get a medal 

Click to expand...

Eh ?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 20, 2022)

Only Muller and Messi had more assists than TAA. In top leagues in Europe since 2018.
He’s more than a full back MOM for me fantastic display .
We missed a few chances at 1-0 but Jota also fantastic.
Gunners just nothing  up front.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Jan 20, 2022)

Liverpool played tonight and only 3 comments, 2 being LP one of which is a picture so may not count. Is this a record low!


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## Slime (Jan 21, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Liverpool played tonight and only 3 comments, 2 being LP one of which is a picture so may not count. Is this a record low!
		
Click to expand...

It's only The Caravan Club Cup, so nobody gives a damn.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 21, 2022)

Have to feel slightly sorry for Partey and the way he was used. Only returned around midday after playing a number of games in quick succession the African Cup of Nations and then flying back and being chucked into a matchday squad. Looked well off it from the moment he came on. Surely this would have been a chance for Arteta to try some of the younger players if he was that thin on the ground for player. They would definitely had more energy coming off the bench and been up for the fight


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 21, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Have to feel slightly sorry for Partey and the way he was used. Only returned around midday after playing a number of games in quick succession the African Cup of Nations and then flying back and being chucked into a matchday squad. Looked well off it from the moment he came on. Surely this would have been a chance for Arteta to try some of the younger players if he was that thin on the ground for player. They would definitely had more energy coming off the bench and been up for the fight
		
Click to expand...

Yes he didn’t even looked that bothered he saw red.
All that travelling takes it out of you.


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## Orikoru (Jan 21, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Have to feel slightly sorry for Partey and the way he was used. Only returned around midday after playing a number of games in quick succession the African Cup of Nations and then flying back and being chucked into a matchday squad. Looked well off it from the moment he came on. *Surely this would have been a chance for Arteta to try some of the younger players if he was that thin on the ground for player. *They would definitely had more energy coming off the bench and been up for the fight
		
Click to expand...

Well, we know they'd rather beg for a game to be cancelled than play a few kids.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 21, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Liverpool played tonight and only 3 comments, 2 being LP one of which is a picture so may not count. Is this a record low!
		
Click to expand...

You'll probably find that the match-goers are relatively quiet after a big win, unlike some club's fans I could mention.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2022)

😂😂😂


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2022)

Disgusting at Everton, Digne and Cash hit by a bottle after the goal

This is fast becoming a huge problem in games and something needs doing and fast


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## davemc1 (Jan 22, 2022)

Big Duncs face rub is very Roy Hodgson-esque 🤦‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Disgusting at Everton, Digne and Cash hit by a bottle after the goal

This is fast becoming a huge problem in games and something needs doing and fast
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Hopefully the idiots involved are caught on CCTV, will be prosecuted and banned from grounds for life. It's cowardly.


----------



## Neilds (Jan 22, 2022)

Why was the Notts Forest keeper allowed to stay on after a clash of heads left him with a lump the size of an egg over his eye? We keep hearing how football is learning about concussions and dementia, but all the evidence seems to say otherwise


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2022)

There’s a couple
Of stories in the BBC site. 
1, arrests at football on the increase
2, a fan arrested re the bottle incident at Villa
And now we have players took
Off the pitch due to A Drone flying overhead. 
😡


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 22, 2022)

If you want to feel old............Ian Wright's grandson scored Stoke's first goal today v Fulham.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Totally agree. Hopefully the idiots involved are caught on CCTV, will be prosecuted and banned from grounds for life. It's cowardly.
		
Click to expand...

Just in from the course and seen the incident! Not sure some of our fans can sink any lower! Pure scum!


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## AmandaJR (Jan 22, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you want to feel old............Ian Wright's grandson scored Stoke's first goal today v Fulham.
		
Click to expand...

I heard mention of a Wright-Phillips and thought "wow is he still going" - somewhat confused when they said it was his first goal


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2022)

Offside or not ?


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## Cherry13 (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 40753


Offside or not ?
		
Click to expand...

not


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## Papas1982 (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Offside or not ?
		
Click to expand...

thought off at first. But not sure camera is quite straight with lines. Think he is just about on


----------



## BrianM (Jan 22, 2022)

Level at worst, really hard to tell to be honest.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 40753


Offside or not ?
		
Click to expand...

Not.


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## Slime (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 40753


Offside or not ?
		
Click to expand...

Clearly not, sorry Phil.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			Clearly not, sorry Phil.
		
Click to expand...

Clearly ? Or very very tight 

with the line 



So is Cavani’s head ahead of the boot of Cresswell ?


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## Slime (Jan 22, 2022)

Clearly, VAR said so. 

To be fair, it's as tight as two coats of paint, but my red tinted glasses make things a whole lot clearer.


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Clearly ? Or very very tight

with the line
View attachment 40755


So is Cavani’s head ahead of the boot of Cresswell ?
		
Click to expand...


If evers there a picture which shows why they should only judge it off where the boots are its this for me. Offside for leaning forward (if it is?)


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2022)

Well that should make for a better game at Southampton


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2022)

Brilliant this:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484873589384007695


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Well that should make for a better game at Southampton 

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484944354254938113


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## Golfmmad (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Clearly ? Or very very tight

with the line
View attachment 40755


So is Cavani’s head ahead of the boot of Cresswell ?
		
Click to expand...

It's the camera angle. If you were stood directly in line  it would show Cavani about a yard onside.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Clearly ? Or very very tight

with the line
View attachment 40755


So is Cavani’s head ahead of the boot of Cresswell ?
		
Click to expand...

What is the point of your post? You do realise VAR is used these days!? If his toenail was offside, VAR would have given offside.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What is the point of your post? You do realise VAR is used these days!? If his toenail was offside, VAR would have given offside.
		
Click to expand...

It’s called a discussion ffs

You are not required to react to everything


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It's the camera angle. If you were stood directly in line  it would show Cavani about a yard onside.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah it’s very hard for any camera to be spot on - it looks like this was a result of “thickening” the lines to try and get a bit of an advantage for the attacker potentially


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## Cherry13 (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yeah it’s very hard for any camera to be spot on - it looks like this was a result of “thickening” the lines to try and get a bit of an advantage for the attacker potentially
		
Click to expand...

thickening the line?? Hahaha. I must look out for that one in the future. The sky sports replay is pretty conclusive. I suggest you watch that!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			thickening the line?? Hahaha. I must look out for that one in the future. The sky sports replay is pretty conclusive. I suggest you watch that!
		
Click to expand...

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...e-thicker-lines-for-offside-calls-next-season

Blimey


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## Swango1980 (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s called a discussion ffs

You are not required to react to everything
		
Click to expand...

True, I am not. But, I just didn't get the point of the question when VAR is in use and the fact it is known to give offside when a toe is offside. 

The picture you posted does not indicate it was offside either, so I'm not sure if you were trying to find new evidence VAR missed?


----------



## Cherry13 (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...e-thicker-lines-for-offside-calls-next-season

Blimey
		
Click to expand...


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## pauljames87 (Jan 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			True, I am not. But, I just didn't get the point of the question when VAR is in use and the fact it is known to give offside when a toe is offside.

The picture you posted does not indicate it was offside either, so I'm not sure if you were trying to find new evidence VAR missed?
		
Click to expand...

Was a shame, but hey ho. Onto the next match. Thought we deserved a point but we looked toothless 

Really need to get a proper striker in again. Don't care how much of a handful Antonio can be it's not enough. We need a goal scorer 

His purple patch is over and his normal levels have resumed 

Positives that zouma Is back 

Thought Moyes was too cagey. I mean lanzini was off the boil. Would have liked to have seen vlasic brought on about 70th min to change things up a bit


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## Cherry13 (Jan 22, 2022)

I apologise, I inferred that you meant they were thickening the line in this instance… my mistake.  However, regardless of thickness of lines, it’s pretty conclusive.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



View attachment 40757

Click to expand...

Why is the Blue that’s going through Cavani’s head not being used - it looks really  weird


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2022)

deleted my post, i actually dont understand the lines at all


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is the Blue that’s going through Cavani’s head not being used - it looks really  weird
		
Click to expand...

The blue line is the defenders foot. I assume that it's the camera angle that makes it look like his head is further forward than his shoulder which is where they've drawn the green line from.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is the Blue that’s going through Cavani’s head not being used - it looks really  weird
		
Click to expand...

Because the camera is at an angle. His head is passing the part of the blue line about 10 yards to the right of Cavani. His head is not ahead of the blue line if you were to look at it dead on line.


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			The blue line is the defenders foot. I assume that it's the camera angle that makes it look like his head is further forward than his shoulder which is where they've drawn the green line from.
		
Click to expand...


if thats true they really shouldnt be drawing lines on that image surely?


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## Cherry13 (Jan 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			if thats true they really shouldnt be drawing lines on that image surely?
		
Click to expand...

Which image should they use?


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			if thats true they really shouldnt be drawing lines on that image surely?
		
Click to expand...

I always thought that they had some kind of fancy computer programme that rotated the view and could even give an aerial view of the action to draw the lines from. Although I might have imagined that or made it up.


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			Which image should they use?
		
Click to expand...


well ideally one in line but surely that image is just a guess once you draw lines on it


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## Swango1980 (Jan 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			if thats true they really shouldnt be drawing lines on that image surely?
		
Click to expand...

You can see where they set the green line, with the dotted vertical line. They'll set it at the player's position. You can see it is quite a way in front of Cavani, that is because it lines up with his shoulder as he leans forward.

However, if you follow the green line a little further to the right, Cavani looks a long way ahead of it. Clearly he is not, as we see where it is underneath him, but the camera angle make the green line further up appear as tho it is behind him.

So, you don't even need to consider the blue line when understanding the perspective of the camera angle.

The blue line will then be set at the defenders position. Both lines are parallel, with the blue line a good bit closer to the goal line


----------



## Cherry13 (Jan 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			well ideally one in line but surely that image is just a guess once you draw lines on it
		
Click to expand...

Well no, not really. As long as the 2 respective lines come from a standard reference point (perhaps the touchline) at the same angle then there is no issue.


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			Well no, not really. As long as the 2 respective lines come from a standard reference point (perhaps the touchline) at the same angle then there is no issue.
		
Click to expand...

so you just accept the lines are right even though they arent actually relevant to the image they are drawn on?


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## Cherry13 (Jan 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			so you just accept the lines are right even though they arent actually relevant to the image they are drawn on?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I accept that Hawkeye technology is very advanced, and the lines they ‘add’ to an image are correct and use valid reference points and pitches are mapped prior to the match to ensure integrity.


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			Yes, I accept that Hawkeye technology is very advanced, and the lines they ‘add’ to an image are correct and use valid reference points and pitches are mapped prior to the match to ensure integrity.
		
Click to expand...


but why draw lines on an image they dont actually relate to fully?

if you say its a hawkeye modelled decision then fine, putting the lines "wrongly" on image just muddies the waters surely?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 22, 2022)

For anyone that can't get their head around camera angles, just follow the blue line further up the picture behind the defender. It is through the middle of his shoulder. So, if you think Cavani is offside because his head is ahead of the blue line, then you will also have to suggest the defender is also ahead of the blue line.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2022)

These VAR decisions tonight are taking far too long surely - if it’s clear and obvious then it takes 1 maybe two looks


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 22, 2022)

I dislike utd with a passion, hope all sorts of evils happen to them as a club, but when something is that tight it is onside. I don't see any part of Cavani that can score being offside so carry on. Geez that hurt 😭


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## Slime (Jan 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



*I dislike utd with a passion*, hope all sorts of evils happen to them as a club, but when something is that tight it is onside. I don't see any part of Cavani that can score being offside so carry on. Geez that hurt 😭
		
Click to expand...

So do many others which is why they find it so hard to accept a tight decision in Utd's favour, especially for a 93rd minute winner.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			So do many others which is why they find it so hard to accept a tight decision in Utd's favour, especially for a 93rd minute winner.
		
Click to expand...

I very much agree with the first part, although the lines showed it wasn't even a tight call.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 22, 2022)

Everton looking like a real tough gig at the moment


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			So do many others which is why they find it so hard to accept a tight decision in Utd's favour, especially for a 93rd minute winner.
		
Click to expand...

It does put a dampner on the evening for sure 😄


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			So do many others which is why they find it so hard to accept a tight decision in Utd's favour, especially for a 93rd minute winner.
		
Click to expand...

It was a very tight decision that I thought would be a good discussion as it looked all wrong 

also it seems tonight City put out the most expensive team in Prem history. Seems the title still got some twists yet 

The CB for Soton - Salisu ? Was very good


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems the title still got some twists yet
		
Click to expand...

Really? 12 points ahead even though you have two games in hand. That's still 6 points at best even if Liverpool don't slip up. Can't see anything other than a City title


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## pokerjoke (Jan 22, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Really? 12 points ahead even though you have two games in hand. That's still 6 points at best even if Liverpool don't slip up. Can't see anything other than a City title
		
Click to expand...

You sure?
Utd closed the gap today


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2022)

This clears it up I think 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484940145312870401


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## Golfmmad (Jan 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I dislike utd with a passion, hope all sorts of evils happen to them as a club, but when something is that tight it is onside. I don't see any part of Cavani that can score being offside so carry on. Geez that hurt 😭
		
Click to expand...

LT, perhaps you should adopt Luke Donald's rule of 10 seconds - forget it and move on! 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 22, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			LT, perhaps you should adopt Luke Donald's rule of 10 seconds - forget it and move on! 😂
		
Click to expand...

Noooooooo just can't do it 😆


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## Swango1980 (Jan 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			This clears it up I think 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484940145312870401

Click to expand...

What a load of rubbish, funny though.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			This clears it up I think 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484940145312870401

Click to expand...

🤔 looks correct to me. 😬

Can’t complain, we weren't good enough to get a result today. We are a tired squad, and if those scumbags in charge of us don't do something about it, our season will just peter out.


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## 4LEX (Jan 22, 2022)

The offside in the Utd game is another VAR mistake, the head of Cavani is offside. But it's so close to call these things should always go to the attacker. Just a reminder of how VAR and these lines are ruining games week in, week out.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 22, 2022)

4LEX said:



			The offside in the Utd game is another VAR mistake, the head of Cavani is offside. But it's so close to call these things should always go to the attacker. Just a reminder of how VAR and these lines are ruining games week in, week out.
		
Click to expand...

He was about 8 inches onside, look how far apart both lines are. There is no doubt, unless you fail to take into account the angle at which the camera is looking at things


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## 4LEX (Jan 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He was about 8 inches onside, look how far apart both lines are. There is no doubt, unless you fail to take into account the angle at which the camera is looking at things
		
Click to expand...

My point was that the lines are clearly wrong. Offsides should only be overruled if theres daylight between the players, none of this nonsense about angles, lines or thickness of said lines. It was a goal, end of. 

That was a huge swing in points for Utd, could be the difference in finishing fourth or fifth. Harry Maguire back and a clean sheet


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## Swango1980 (Jan 22, 2022)

4LEX said:



			My point was that the lines are clearly wrong. Offsides should only be overruled if theres daylight between the players, none of this nonsense about angles, lines or thickness of said lines. It was a goal, end of.

That was a huge swing in points for Utd, could be the difference in finishing fourth or fifth. Harry Maguire back and a clean sheet 

Click to expand...

If the lines are so wrong, with a margin of error greater than 8 inches, then VAR needs to be scrapped with immediate effect.

I can understand the argument when the lines are virtually touching, and there is a debate about what part of the body they've been drawn from, or the limited frames per second. However, I can't see the argument when the lines are about 8 inches apart, unless there is a monumental flaw with VAR.

From what I've read on Sky, there isn't any argument about it being offside, nor did Moyes seem to be outraged by the decision? If VAR has made such a big error, I'd expect it to have been a huge talking point (outside this thread). 

I'll watch MOTD tomorrow, and see if they can highlight if it was a big mistake.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jan 22, 2022)

From what I have seen it was onside. Anyone suggesting it’s not is either biased or just plain stupid.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 23, 2022)

Why don’t they just have a few more cameras. ( it’s not like they can’t afford it.)
They should have one every ten yards that would stop all this.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 23, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Why don’t they just have a few more cameras. ( it’s not like they can’t afford it.)
They should have one every ten yards that would stop all this.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe this will help:

"How offsides are determined by VAR" https://www.premierleague.com/news/1488423


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe this will help:

"How offsides are determined by VAR" https://www.premierleague.com/news/1488423

Click to expand...

Yes the tech is really good.
But no matter how good it is a fan will always question a offside decision against them if the camera is not in line.
It explains it very well.
So the lines they use are narrow but they put the coloured ones on just for the telly.
That explains a lot in a close call.
Thanks.


----------



## Billysboots (Jan 23, 2022)

Just watched MOTD and the Leeds/Newcastle game was a decent watch. That said, I can’t decide whether it was breathless end to end because of the quality on show, or the astonishing naivety of both sides.

It certainly made for an entertaining game.


----------



## chrisd (Jan 23, 2022)

Just a thought

I get the "if you're offside you're offside" even if it's a toenail distance offside.  Where VAR can determine the question of whether, at the point the ball is played, using the lines etc, a receiving player is offside I wonder how accurate the measurement of the person playing the ball is. Do they accurately get the point where the ball is still on the passers foot, head, knee etc, or a fraction after its lost connection with the passer and, if the latter, will a toenail finding a player offside be miss measured on the passer of the ball - how many goals ruled out were actually just missmeasured? I ask this simply because I see much less emphasis on the pass being strictly accurately measured than the attackers run.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 23, 2022)

Still plenty of positives for this season.

We got to the league cup quarters 
we are in the last 16 of the europa league which is outstanding for us..
still in the FA cup

id like to see us reach the semis of the FA cup, semis of the Europa and top 6 in the league.. i think thats real steady progress

we are still playing well.. we could have got an undeserved point against leeds in the last min, and more than matched united yesterday ... dawson and zouma kept one of the best players the world has seen out of the game for the most ..

zouma is back.. thats a massive massive positive

we need a striker ASAP 

however Benrahma is back now... few weeks rest for the players ....  

we return with a cup game against kidderminster ... hopefully can give rice a rest in that one and zouma unless he needs to get match sharp 

then we have 4 games that are winnable (not saying for a moment we should win all of them at all but we have a good chance) watford at home, away to Leicester, home to Newcastle then home to wolves .. we could win 2 of them we could win all of them.. could also lose them all then beat liverpool in the game after .. this is the beauty of football

I trust moyes and his team to get the best out what we got

I would like to see a striker in ASAP.. after that a CB to be long term partner with zouma but that could wait until the summer.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			These VAR decisions tonight are taking far too long surely - if it’s clear and obvious then it takes 1 maybe two looks
		
Click to expand...

It was ridiculous, they'd still be looking at the penalty shout now if the ref hadn't blown the final whistle Maybe its time to bring in some kind of time limit, like they have for referrals in cricket. If you can't sort it out in 15 seconds then its not obvious so play on.


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 23, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Just a thought

I get the "if you're offside you're offside" even if it's a toenail distance offside.  Where VAR can determine the question of whether, at the point the ball is played, using the lines etc, a receiving player is offside I wonder how accurate the measurement of the person playing the ball is. Do they accurately get the point where the ball is still on the passers foot, head, knee etc, or a fraction after its lost connection with the passer and, if the latter, will a toenail finding a player offside be miss measured on the passer of the ball - how many goals ruled out were actually just missmeasured? I ask this simply because I see much less emphasis on the pass being strictly accurately measured than the attackers run.
		
Click to expand...

I believe the rules say that it is first contact but I've seen them given as offside when the ball has clearly left the foot.  I think the issue is that the frame count is too slow to accurately guarantee getting the correct point every time.


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## chrisd (Jan 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I believe the rules say that it is first contact but I've seen them given as offside when the ball has clearly left the foot.  I think the issue is that the frame count is too slow to accurately guarantee getting the correct point every time.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if the rule has changed but it was "when the ball is kicked" but I agree that the frame rate could mess things up. But if it is "when the ball is kicked" the  line should be milliseconds after it touches the passer and clearly it not always is, on VAR. So if it's very tight then the benefit should go to the attackers


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 23, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I'm not sure if the rule has changed but it was "when the ball is kicked" but I agree that the frame rate could mess things up. But if it is "when the ball is kicked" the  line should be milliseconds after it touches the passer and clearly it not always is, on VAR. So if it's very tight then the benefit should go to the attackers
		
Click to expand...

Plus there's the question of is the pass made when the ball first touches the player's foot? When the ball changes direction? Or when the ball leaves the player's foot? And with a firmly struck pass there will be some compression of the ball. With the frame rate of the images that bit of the process has to be "best guess" at best.


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## chrisd (Jan 23, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Plus there's the question of is the pass made when the ball first touches the player's foot? When the ball changes direction? Or when the ball leaves the player's foot? And with a firmly struck pass there will be some compression of the ball. With the frame rate of the images that bit of the process has to be "best guess" at best.
		
Click to expand...

I've just checked the rule and it's "when the ball is first touched or played" so in my opinion I'd expect to see it on the players body somewhere and not off the body by any degree as is quite often the case with VAR


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## Swango1980 (Jan 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Just watched MOTD and the Leeds/Newcastle game was a decent watch. That said, I can’t decide whether it was breathless end to end because of the quality on show, or the astonishing naivety of both sides.

It certainly made for an entertaining game.
		
Click to expand...

I'm still baffled Newcastle didn't get a penalty.


----------



## fundy (Jan 23, 2022)

how is this not red?

xhaka gets a 10 week ban for this lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			how is this not red?

*xhaka gets a 10 week ban for this lol*

Click to expand...

doesnt that do you a massive favour tho?


----------



## BiMGuy (Jan 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Just watched MOTD and the Leeds/Newcastle game was a decent watch. That said, I can’t decide whether it was breathless end to end because of the quality on show, or the astonishing naivety of both sides.

It certainly made for an entertaining game.
		
Click to expand...

The MOTD edit was nothing like the reality of the game. 
Newcastle were time wasting from the start and clearly had prearranged times to fake an injury so the coaching staff could get messages on to players.

And it was never a pen. The lad was already on his way down and the contact was minimal. The one angle I’ve see it’s not even clear there was contact.


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2022)

VAR drunk if thats a pen on Jota lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			VAR drunk if thats a pen on Jota lol
		
Click to expand...

Never a penalty


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## Swango1980 (Jan 23, 2022)

VAR absolutely shocking once again. At least it only took them 47 minutes to check it before sending the ref to the monitor


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## davemc1 (Jan 23, 2022)

Bad bad bad decision!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			Bad bad bad decision!
		
Click to expand...

I find it staggering that two refs looked at that and decided it was a penalty


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## hairball_89 (Jan 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			VAR drunk if thats a pen on Jota lol
		
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Never a pen in a million years. Jota has fallen into the keeper. I'd be fuming if it was against us.


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## AmandaJR (Jan 23, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



*The MOTD edit was nothing like the reality of the game.*
Newcastle were time wasting from the start and clearly had prearranged times to fake an injury so the coaching staff could get messages on to players.

And it was never a pen. The lad was already on his way down and the contact was minimal. The one angle I’ve see it’s not even clear there was contact.
		
Click to expand...

Neither was the City match. Weird how they did that and not noticed it before. Looked like the chances were even between the sides and didn't even show the awful challenge on Grealish in the first half. Oh and the Southampton keeper time wasting from the 20th minute


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## arnieboy (Jan 23, 2022)

Agree, that was never a penalty.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 23, 2022)

That's an absolute joke of a penalty decision.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I find it staggering that two refs looked at that and decided it was a penalty
		
Click to expand...

It shows just how poor they are. The time it took as well, 1 replay was all it took for anyone viewing to go "nope. not a pen, move on".


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## Piece (Jan 23, 2022)

I’ll defend VAR to the cows come home.

But thats not a pen.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 23, 2022)

Does anyone believe that decision would have been awarded in favour of Palace in the same situation?


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does anyone believe that decision would have been awarded in favour of Palace in the same situation?
		
Click to expand...

lol


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## srixon 1 (Jan 23, 2022)

VAR is turning football into a joke. Should have gone to Specsavers.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2022)

Blimey it’s that a rare occasion where we are all in agreement 😂


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## Imurg (Jan 23, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			VAR is turning football into a joke. Should have gone to Specsavers.
		
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Football was turning into a joke long before VAR arrived..
VAR has just confirmed it.


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## paddyc (Jan 23, 2022)

So everyone watching can see it is never a pen but the two well paid professional referees say it was a clear and obvious  error and a pen.  Games gone mad get rid of VAR!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2022)

Palace have some superb talent - especially the two lads they got from the lower leagues - Eze and Oliese , brilliant at times today


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## paddyc (Jan 23, 2022)

Missed the Arsenal  game but guessing it was a spineless shocking performance  and we were lucky to get a point. Business as usual then!


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Missed the Arsenal  game but guessing it was a spineless shocking performance  and we were lucky to get a point. Business as usual then!
		
Click to expand...


they say we dont like it up us, they were right lol

had enough chances to win but never looked like scoring, Westwood shouldve been sent off for them 1st half, we suffer from having no central midfield and not being able sides down who set up to defend

state of our bench shows just how small our squad is becoming, which is actually a positive, assuming they make the right additions going forward


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2022)




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## chrisd (Jan 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Palace have some superb talent - especially the two lads they got from the lower leagues - Eze and Oliese , brilliant at times today
		
Click to expand...

I only caught the first half as  HID needed picking up and we were shocking - 2nd half, cant see it was a penalty and the second goal was offside!


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## AliMc (Jan 23, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			VAR is turning football into a joke. Should have gone to Specsavers.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but ...... No
Scottish referees were sponsored by Specsavers, don't know if they still are, and they are absolutely shocking 😳


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2022)

Jurgen Klopp on the penalty call: "I didn't see it back but Diogo thought it was a penalty. The referee checked the screen so VAR thought it was a penalty as well. I don't know why we talk about this now." 

As bad as Wenger was


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I only caught the first half as  HID needed picking up and we were shocking - 2nd half, cant see it was a penalty and the second goal was offside!
		
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Do you think everything was correct with your goal, then?

The guy who scored was offside earlier in the move, and although the ball went to his mate, he still had a significant advantage as he had got a few yards clear of our defence for when he put it in.

Soft, soft pen. If Jota hadnt have taken one step towards the goalie which helped to instigate the contact, I would have said it was a pen, but that one step made it less of a pen to me, or no pen for me.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2022)

fundy said:



View attachment 40765

Click to expand...

One thing I thought I would never see in my lifetime is opposition fans singing "who's the scouser in the black" to Keven Friend in a Liverpool game. We normally get nothing from him, and the games are turgid.

Shocked.


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			One thing I thought I would never see in my lifetime is opposition fans singing "who's the scouser in the black" to Keven Friend in a Liverpool game. We normally get nothing from him, and the games are turgid.

Shocked.
		
Click to expand...


Kind of dont blame Friend as much as the video ref upstairs, he didnt give a pen but its quite clear when theyre called to the monitor they have little choice but to change their decisions


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2022)

Another awful decision in favour of the big team.................


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## davemc1 (Jan 23, 2022)

Bad, bad, bad decision


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## paddyc (Jan 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			Kind of dont blame Friend as much as the video ref upstairs, he didnt give a pen but its quite clear when theyre called to the monitor they have little choice but to change their decisions
		
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Steve these refs have got to have the balls to say NO .I was right and not changing  my decision, not a Pen!


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Steve these refs have got to have the balls to say NO .I was right and not changing  my decision, not a Pen!
		
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If doing so is going to cost them there job or being demoted then theyre not going to are they, and thats clearly where were at sadly with them all towing the party line. If thats the case dont call them to the machine just make and own the decision upstairs


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2022)

Well that’s an interesting decision 😂


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## Dando (Jan 23, 2022)

Nice dive by thiago Silva


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## arnieboy (Jan 23, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Steve these refs have got to have the balls to say NO .I was right and not changing  my decision, not a Pen!
		
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Totally agree with that, stand up and be counted.


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## SteveW86 (Jan 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey it’s that a rare occasion where we are all in agreement 😂
		
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come on Phil, say something controversial to stop it all.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2022)

Think that was the right choice to disallow it , it was a push that allowed him to get to the ball , if someone did that to Kane in the area he is down like a sack of spuds


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## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			Another awful decision in favour of the big team.................
		
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Am sure the big team didn’t get any VAR decisions yesterday. 😉


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## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Neither was the City match. Weird how they did that and not noticed it before. Looked like the chances were even between the sides and didn't even show the awful challenge on Grealish in the first half. Oh and the Southampton keeper time wasting from the 20th minute 

Click to expand...

Time wasting is only an issue when it’s happens against a team playing in Red 😉


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## AmandaJR (Jan 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Am sure the big team didn’t get any VAR decisions yesterday. 😉
		
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0 from 3 = seriously I never ever expect VAR to decide in our favour.


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## paddyc (Jan 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			If doing so is going to cost them there job or being demoted then theyre not going to are they, and thats clearly where were at sadly with them all towing the party line. If thats the case dont call them to the machine just make and own the decision upstairs
		
Click to expand...

In that case we don't need referees. let's have someone sitting in an office somewhere directing the game from there. If I was Mike Riley I'd be demoting Craig Pawson VAR and and our old Friend Kevin for that piece of total incompetent.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			0 from 3 = seriously I never ever expect VAR to decide in our favour.
		
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Amanda it’s got to a stage were I struggle to watch a game without VAR ruining it. And I certainly don’t just mean the City games.
That aside I thought Southampton were excellent yesterday. It just was not out day.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485307097487233024
😂😂👏👏


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485307097487233024
😂😂👏👏
		
Click to expand...


hes no Duncan Ferguson is he


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## AmandaJR (Jan 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Amanda it’s got to a stage were I struggle to watch a game without VAR ruining it. And I certainly don’t just mean the City games.
That aside I thought Southampton were excellent yesterday. It just was not out day.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed on both counts. Phenominal work-rate and if I was a Chelsea fan I'd want that lad with the big chin back pronto!


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## chrisd (Jan 23, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you think everything was correct with your goal, then?

The guy who scored was offside earlier in the move, and although the ball went to his mate, he still had a significant advantage as he had got a few yards clear of our defence for when he put it in.

Soft, soft pen. If Jota hadnt have taken one step towards the goalie which helped to instigate the contact, I would have said it was a pen, but that one step made it less of a pen to me, or no pen for me.
		
Click to expand...

Our goal didn't have the player trying to play the ball (from what I saw), which rendered him not interfering with play, yours jumped trying to head it, so clearly interfering with play and therefore offside


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that’s an interesting decision 😂
		
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Dando said:



			Nice dive by thiago Silva
		
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The only interesting thing was how long it took Paul Tierney and his assistant so long to work out something so obvious. 🙄


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## Swango1980 (Jan 23, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Our goal didn't have the player trying to play the ball (from what I saw), which rendered him not interfering with play, yours jumped trying to head it, so clearly interfering with play and therefore offside
		
Click to expand...

The Liverpool goal was never offside in a million years. It doesn't matter if he tried to play it or not. If he had just stood there, you could still argue he "interferes" with play simply by being there, as he'd play on the mind of the defenders. But, it is irrelevant. He didn't touch the ball. Had he touched the ball, then it would have been offside.

The only way it would be offside is if they rewrote the offside law. And then how would you define "try to play the ball"? A full jump? A full stretch of the leg? A half hearted stretch of the leg? Glancing at the ball and half a pace towards it but giving up?


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## Swingalot (Jan 23, 2022)

I can't type too much at the moment as still not calmed down, but as soon as I saw Kevin Friend as the ref I knew we would be talking about decisions rather than football. It's a massive shame as it was a cracking game and some superb football from both sides. Liverpool are class, but that second half from us was simply brilliant.....until......arghhhhhhh!!!!


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## Beezerk (Jan 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			how is this not red?

xhaka gets a 10 week ban for this lol

View attachment 40764

Click to expand...

The guy is dangerous, he's going to seriously injure someone the way he's going.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The Liverpool goal was never offside in a million years. It doesn't matter if he tried to play it or not. If he had just stood there, you could still argue he "interferes" with play simply by being there, as he'd play on the mind of the defenders. But, it is irrelevant. He didn't touch the ball. *Had he touched the ball, then it would have been offside.*

The only way it would be offside is if they rewrote the offside law. And then how would you define "try to play the ball"? A full jump? A full stretch of the leg? A half hearted stretch of the leg? Glancing at the ball and half a pace towards it but giving up?
		
Click to expand...

The rule doesn’t say a player has to touch the ball:

Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
*challenging an opponent for the ball* or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball or
gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
been deliberately saved by any opponent
No need for a rewrite then.


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## chrisd (Jan 23, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			I can't type too much at the moment as still not calmed down, but as soon as I saw Kevin Friend as the ref I knew we would be talking about decisions rather than football. It's a massive shame as it was a cracking game and some superb football from both sides. Liverpool are class, but that second half from us was simply brilliant.....until......arghhhhhhh!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Pretty much my thoughts too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			I can't type too much at the moment as still not calmed down, but as soon as I saw Kevin Friend as the ref I knew we would be talking about decisions rather than football. It's a massive shame as it was a cracking game and some superb football from both sides. Liverpool are class, but that second half from us was simply brilliant.....until......arghhhhhhh!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Play like that and you are going to cause some issues to teams 

Would happily see Olise as a future Salah replacement


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## chrisd (Jan 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The Liverpool goal was never offside in a million years. It doesn't matter if he tried to play it or not. If he had just stood there, you could still argue he "interferes" with play simply by being there, as he'd play on the mind of the defenders. But, it is irrelevant. He didn't touch the ball. Had he touched the ball, then it would have been offside.

The only way it would be offside is if they rewrote the offside law. And then how would you define "try to play the ball"? A full jump? A full stretch of the leg? A half hearted stretch of the leg? Glancing at the ball and half a pace towards it but giving up?
		
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Absolute tosh!

I've seen plenty of offside decisions where a player doesn't touch the ball.  Firmino was in an offside position and was active and therfore off side


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## chrisd (Jan 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would happily see Olise as a future Salah replacement
		
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Sod off Phil! But you can buy Benteke back 👍👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Sod off Phil! But you can buy Benteke back 👍👍
		
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Well he is going to have to step up to a big club soon 😁

Just think how good he would be under Klopp 👍😁


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## 4LEX (Jan 23, 2022)

Olise is a class act. Quick, skilful and a great strike with his left.

He will be at a big club in a few years.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			You sure?
Utd closed the gap today

Click to expand...




Swingalot said:



			I can't type too much at the moment as still not calmed down, but as soon as I saw Kevin Friend as the ref I knew we would be talking about decisions rather than football. It's a massive shame as it was a cracking game and some superb football from both sides. Liverpool are class, but that second half from us was simply brilliant.....until......arghhhhhhh!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Is Friend the worse referee? Surely Dean is the poorest ref on the panel


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Our goal didn't have the player trying to play the ball (from what I saw), which rendered him not interfering with play, yours jumped trying to head it, so clearly interfering with play and therefore offside
		
Click to expand...

He played the ball when putting it in the net, though.


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## Billysboots (Jan 23, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is Friend the worse referee? Surely Dean is the poorest ref on the panel
		
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I’ll raise your Mike Dean and give you Chris Kavanagh. A truly awful referee who has considerable history of going to the pitch side monitor to review his decisions, only to then make a bigger Horlicks of it than he did in real time.

Should not be allowed anywhere near a football pitch.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I’ll raise your Mike Dean and give you Chris Kavanagh. A truly awful referee who has considerable history of going to the pitch side monitor to review his decisions, only to then make a bigger Horlicks of it than he did in real time.

Should not be allowed anywhere near a football pitch.
		
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Harsh but fair


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## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2022)

At last there’s hope 😁


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## hairball_89 (Jan 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I’ll raise your Mike Dean and give you Chris Kavanagh. A truly awful referee who has considerable history of going to the pitch side monitor to review his decisions, only to then make a bigger Horlicks of it than he did in real time.

Should not be allowed anywhere near a football pitch.
		
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It's Atkinson for me. Truly atrocious.


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 23, 2022)

Can we keep it simple & just name a decent one?


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## Billysboots (Jan 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can we keep it simple & just name a decent one?
		
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Erm. No, you’ve got me there…….


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can we keep it simple & just name a decent one?
		
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Micheal Oliver is the best of a bad bunch just about


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## Billysboots (Jan 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Micheal Oliver is the best of a bad bunch just about
		
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Good job my lad isn’t on this forum, Phil. That comment would have seen you straight on his “ignore” list!


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can we keep it simple & just name a decent one?
		
Click to expand...

To be fair Oliver is the outstanding one, not perfect but my heart doesnt sink when I see him as the ref.

Friend and Tierney are the worst.


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## Swingalot (Jan 23, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is Friend the worse referee? Surely Dean is the poorest ref on the panel
		
Click to expand...

Yes the very worst. At least Dean makes decisions and sticks to them. Friend ignores loads of things and then stands like a plank when later in the game he realises he's lost control.  We were on his back a lot earlier than the pen, he was useless all day, absolutely useless. Incompetent beyond words.


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Erm. No, you’ve got me there…….
		
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I'm going for Keith Hackett or Eric Jennings.


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## Billysboots (Jan 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'm going for Keith Hackett or Eric Jennings. 

Click to expand...

Clive Thomas?


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 23, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Our goal didn't have the player trying to play the ball (from what I saw), which rendered him not interfering with play, yours jumped trying to head it, so clearly interfering with play and therefore offside
		
Click to expand...

If the defenders push up to play him offside he is impacting on their play.
But your right the way the rules are now he’s not offside.
Just another rule they have “ updated “ and made an absolute mess of.

The only reason I can see for the pen was they thought Jotta would get the ball.
Shocking standard of refs in the PL but not much has been done about it.
Some great football from both sides.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Clive Thomas?
		
Click to expand...

To be fair refs in them days didn’t have all these toys to play with.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 23, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			0 from 3 = seriously I never ever expect VAR to decide in our favour.
		
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I just consider it Karma for Pep. 

His Barca team whilst brilliant were one of the worst for histrionics and even now for tactical fouls. 

So about time what he got away with in the past got balanced....


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## Fade and Die (Jan 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Clive Thomas?
		
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Hell No!! 

1981 league cup final. Typical big club favouritism.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Clive Thomas?
		
Click to expand...

Dont be setting the Evertonians off....

I'll also throw in Mike Riley as worst ever ref you could get in a Man U game #guaranteedpen


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## Beezerk (Jan 24, 2022)

Just seen the Liverpool pen on breakfast tv, wow VAR had a shocker there


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2022)

Kavannagh and Tierney are comfortably the worst by far.

That says something when Attwell isn’t even close.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			I can't type too much at the moment as still not calmed down, but as soon as I saw Kevin Friend as the ref I knew we would be talking about decisions rather than football. It's a massive shame as it was a cracking game and some superb football from both sides. Liverpool are class, but that second half from us was simply brilliant.....until......arghhhhhhh!!!!
		
Click to expand...

A proper game of 2 halves that yesterday, I thought Thursday nights game took its toll out of us although Palace were brilliant 2nd half.

Least said the better about the pen. I’m only glad it never decided the result, I couldn’t handle the conspiracy theorists😁


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 24, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			It's Atkinson for me. Truly atrocious.
		
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Thought Uriah Rennie would have got a mention. Another who thought he was bigger than the game and had to be centre of attention


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought Uriah Rennie would have got a mention. *Another who thought he was bigger than the game and had to be centre of attention*

Click to expand...

Nah Rennie was just rubbish. You've just described Jeff Winter perfectly though.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah Rennie was just rubbish. You've just described Jeff Winter perfectly though.
		
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Blimey, I'd forgotten about that inflated ego with a whistle.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 24, 2022)

Anyone thinking that old school refs were better are forgetting they didn't have 17 cameras picking up a range of mistakes. Refs have never been under more scrutiny.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Anyone thinking that old school refs were better are forgetting they didn't have 17 cameras picking up a range of mistakes. Refs have never been under more scrutiny.
		
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It was only seen by match going fans who by the time they got home it was  usually forgotten, none of this 38 angles slowed down to 6m/s and watching on twitter lark.


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## Neilds (Jan 24, 2022)

I think the Newcastle fans will vote Trelford Mills as the worst referee.  Used to play cricket with him and his lad in Barnsley and he always said he was not welcome back in Newcastle.  His lad went to university there and had to keep it quiet about his dad.

For those who don't know, Mills disallowed 2 goals late on in an FA Cup Replay in 1983 against Brighton.  One of the goals was by Keegan, which probably made it worse for the fans.
Great quote from the day - _When we sat in the dressing room after the match I remember chatting to one of my linesmen, John Morley, when the police officer turns up. ‘You’d better hang on here a while, Trelford, there are 2,000 Geordies outside and they all want your autograph’.”_


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## Piece (Jan 24, 2022)

Rob Styles. End of discussion.


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## larmen (Jan 24, 2022)

I don’t watch much English football but the ref yesterday was shocking. And I hate inactive offside with a passion anyway, exactly for the reasons shown in the Liverpool game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Micheal Oliver is the best of a bad bunch just about
		
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Michael Oliver lives just outside the town where I live. He comes into town to watch matches at a particular pub which shows the games. I was in there a few weeks ago stood just a few yards away when a contentious issue happened. I looked at my son, looked at him, looked at others around, it was like a comedy head swivel, eyes darting all over. I could not have been the only one bursting to ask why that decision was made but I am pleased to say that nobody said anything. It is his escape, he is allowed his own time. 

I don't agree with every decision he makes but I think he gets most right, his demeanor is excellent and I don't think he wants to be centre of the show.


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## Swingalot (Jan 24, 2022)

It gets worse, just seen on Motd and all of the panel say Liverpool 2nd goal should have been ruled out by VAR. Guess what, VAR was used but they said


Stuart_C said:



			A proper game of 2 halves that yesterday, I thought Thursday nights game took its toll out of us although Palace were brilliant 2nd half.

Least said the better about the pen. I’m only glad it never decided the result, I couldn’t handle the conspiracy theorists😁
		
Click to expand...

Yep agreed you looked like a different team in the 2nd half, certainly less energy and not pressing as high. That said, we switched to a 442 and went direct to midfield and up front rather than always playing out and that made a big difference for us. I was sat in the front row of the AW stand which is not my normal spot, but sitting at pitch side you realise just how good these players and how fast the game is. Got to say, Robertson was out of this world. I'd under estimated how good he is. More than happy with our lot though and really excited to see the young lads develop over next few seasons (while we keep them away from the vultures).


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			It gets worse, just seen on Motd and all of the panel say Liverpool 2nd goal should have been ruled out by VAR. Guess what, VAR was used but they said


Yep agreed you looked like a different team in the 2nd half, certainly less energy and not pressing as high. That said, we switched to a 442 and went direct to midfield and up front rather than always playing out and that made a big difference for us. I was sat in the front row of the AW stand which is not my normal spot, but sitting at pitch side you realise just how good these players and how fast the game is. Got to say, Robertson was out of this world. I'd under estimated how good he is. More than happy with our lot though and really excited to see the young lads develop over next few seasons (while we keep them away from the vultures).
		
Click to expand...

The offside one is a mess  - the old saying if you’re on the pitch then your interfering

Bobby went for the ball - missed it which it seems why it wasn’t offside 🤷‍♂️

And then with the Palace goal VVD gets attracted to the offside player which then means he loses the guy onside so is he interfering 🤷‍♂️

Such a grey area

In other news 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485546075075366918
Great to ser


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2022)

Good breakdown and explanations on this weekends incidents. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485592982954909698


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 24, 2022)

If VAR thinks the Jota incident is a penalty then the game is beyond help. 

I was going to exclude Kevin Friend from criticism as he didn’t give the penalty initially but on second thoughts he’s as bad for not booking Jota for simulation at the time and not standing his ground on his initial (correct) decision.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			If VAR thinks the Jota incident is a penalty then the game is beyond help.

I was going to exclude Kevin Friend from criticism as he didn’t give the penalty initially but on second thoughts he’s as bad for not booking Jota for simulation at the time and not standing his ground on his initial (correct) decision.
		
Click to expand...

I can only assume, like in the thread above, the issue is this “high bar” “low bar” direction they’ve given to Officials this season.

The only positive I can say about our standard of Refs, is, Refs on the continent are getting just as much stick by the fans in their Leagues.
So I do wonder if the issue is purely the amount of scrutiny the media and social media are putting them under and it’s dificult to tell if they are genuinely any better or worse than their predecessor’s.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			If VAR thinks the Jota incident is a penalty then the game is beyond help.

I was going to exclude Kevin Friend from criticism as he didn’t give the penalty initially but on second thoughts he’s as bad for not booking Jota for simulation at the time and not standing his ground on his initial (correct) decision.
		
Click to expand...

Jota booked for simulation? It may not have been a penalty but Jota didn’t dive surely


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Jota booked for simulation? It may not have been a penalty but Jota didn’t dive surely
		
Click to expand...

He has clearly side-stepped to the right, away from the line of the ball, to initiate the contact with the Palace keeper, has fallen and has then thrown his arms out to claim the penalty.  That’s simulation in my book.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 24, 2022)

Didn't really look like a dive as such. He's tried to flick the ball, missed it so it's running out of play, then there's a coming together with the keeper. Just no penalty and a goal kick would have been fine. Harsh on the keeper because if Jota kicks the ball instead of fresh air he potentially makes the save. Jota has essentially been rewarded for missing it completely.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 24, 2022)




----------



## Steve Wilkes (Jan 24, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			If VAR thinks the Jota incident is a penalty then the game is beyond help.

I was going to exclude Kevin Friend from criticism as he didn’t give the penalty initially but on second thoughts he’s as bad for not booking Jota for simulation at the time and not standing his ground on his initial (correct) decision.
		
Click to expand...

This incident has nothing to do whether the actions involved is a penalty or not, because if it was at the other end the outcome would have been completely different


----------



## fundy (Jan 24, 2022)

sounds like the revolving door at Watford for managers is spinning again.......


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			sounds like the revolving door at Watford for managers is spinning again.......
		
Click to expand...

Sometimes the door does need to revolve though 🤔😄


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sometimes the door does need to revolve though 🤔😄
		
Click to expand...

I think they've taken the doors off altogether and just left an open foyer for convenience.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think they've taken the doors off altogether and just left an open foyer for convenience.
		
Click to expand...

If they ever give more than a 1yr rolling contract then they are just chucking money away. (Saying that, we should only do 2yrs 😆)


----------



## arnieboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Watford another job for Lampard to be shortlisted for......


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			I just consider it Karma for Pep.

His Barca team whilst brilliant were one of the worst for histrionics and even now for tactical fouls.

So about time what he got away with in the past got balanced....
		
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Another rammel comment based On nowt. that is a list of current yellow cards per team off the prem league site. At that rate City do less than 1 and a half tactical fouls per game. That’s if all yellow cards are tactical fouls, which there not.


1.





Leeds United58
2.





Newcastle United51
3.





Aston Villa45
4.





Manchester United44
5.





Brighton and Hove Albion43
6.





Southampton43
7.





Everton42
8.





Brentford40
9.





Crystal Palace40
10.





Chelsea39
11.





Norwich City38
12.





Burnley37
13.





Wolverhampton Wanderers36
14.





Watford35
15.





Tottenham Hotspur34
16.





Arsenal30
17.





Manchester City30
18.





Liverpool29
19.





Leicester City26
20.





West Ham United26


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Anyone thinking that old school refs were better are forgetting they didn't have 17 cameras picking up a range of mistakes. Refs have never been under more scrutiny.
		
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Wonder if the World Cup goal in 66 would of been given if we had VAR 😁 probably would about 20 minutes later.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Another rammel comment based On nowt. that is a list of current yellow cards per team off the prem league site. At that rate City do less than 1 and a half tactical fouls per game. That’s if all yellow cards are tactical fouls, which there not.


1.





Leeds United58
2.





Newcastle United51
3.





Aston Villa45
4.





Manchester United44
5.





Brighton and Hove Albion43
6.





Southampton43
7.





Everton42
8.





Brentford40
9.





Crystal Palace40
10.





Chelsea39
11.





Norwich City38
12.





Burnley37
13.





Wolverhampton Wanderers36
14.





Watford35
15.





Tottenham Hotspur34
16.





Arsenal30
17.





Manchester City30
18.





Liverpool29
19.





Leicester City26
20.





West Ham United26
		
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with what @Papas1982  said ?

For years City had the king of tactical fouls in Fernandino- if he was given a yellow every time he should have he would have spent half the season suspended.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Another rammel comment based On nowt. that is a list of current yellow cards per team off the prem league site. At that rate City do less than 1 and a half tactical fouls per game. That’s if all yellow cards are tactical fouls, which there not.


1.





Leeds United58
2.





Newcastle United51
3.





Aston Villa45
4.





Manchester United44
5.





Brighton and Hove Albion43
6.





Southampton43
7.





Everton42
8.





Brentford40
9.





Crystal Palace40
10.





Chelsea39
11.





Norwich City38
12.





Burnley37
13.





Wolverhampton Wanderers36
14.





Watford35
15.





Tottenham Hotspur34
16.





Arsenal30
17.





Manchester City30
18.





Liverpool29
19.





Leicester City26
20.





West Ham United26
		
Click to expand...

So they get away with avoiding yellows, when other teams don’t?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Another rammel comment based On nowt. that is a list of current yellow cards per team off the prem league site. At that rate City do less than 1 and a half tactical fouls per game. That’s if all yellow cards are tactical fouls, which there not.


1.





Leeds United58
2.





Newcastle United51
3.





Aston Villa45
4.





Manchester United44
5.





Brighton and Hove Albion43
6.





Southampton43
7.





Everton42
8.





Brentford40
9.





Crystal Palace40
10.





Chelsea39
11.





Norwich City38
12.





Burnley37
13.





Wolverhampton Wanderers36
14.





Watford35
15.





Tottenham Hotspur34
16.





Arsenal30
17.





Manchester City30
18.





Liverpool29
19.





Leicester City26
20.





West Ham United26
		
Click to expand...

That would be a wonderful point if, 

A, all your tactical fouls resulted in bookings.
B, A team averaging 70% is gonna have less opportunity to foul. 
C, it was also stated I considered it Karma for BARCELONA......

But you get up on your high horse......

🇲🇽🌮🌯


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			It gets worse, just seen on Motd and all of the panel say Liverpool 2nd goal should have been ruled out by VAR. Guess what, VAR was used but they said


Yep agreed you looked like a different team in the 2nd half, certainly less energy and not pressing as high. That said, we switched to a 442 and went direct to midfield and up front rather than always playing out and that made a big difference for us. I was sat in the front row of the AW stand which is not my normal spot, but sitting at pitch side you realise just how good these players and how fast the game is. Got to say, Robertson was out of this world. I'd under estimated how good he is. *More than happy with our lot though and really excited to see the young lads develop over next few seasons *(while we keep them away from the vultures).
		
Click to expand...

And so you should be. Pay back time for having to put up with Hodgson’s dinosaur tactics.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Another rammel comment based On nowt. that is a list of current yellow cards per team off the prem league site. At that rate City do less than 1 and a half tactical fouls per game. That’s if all yellow cards are tactical fouls, which there not.


1.





Leeds United58
2.





Newcastle United51
3.





Aston Villa45
4.





Manchester United44
5.





Brighton and Hove Albion43
6.





Southampton43
7.





Everton42
8.





Brentford40
9.





Crystal Palace40
10.





Chelsea39
11.





Norwich City38
12.





Burnley37
13.





Wolverhampton Wanderers36
14.





Watford35
15.





Tottenham Hotspur34
16.





Arsenal30
17.





Manchester City30
18.





Liverpool29
19.





Leicester City26
20.





West Ham United26
		
Click to expand...

Surely once Burnley play all their games they will top this table


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2022)

arnieboy said:



			Watford another job for Lampard to be shortlisted for......
		
Click to expand...

It makes a change from seeing Allardyce,Curbs,Strachan,Pardew etc on the shortlist 😆😆


----------



## SteveW86 (Jan 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It makes a change from seeing Allardyce,Curbs,Strachan,Pardew etc on the shortlist 😆😆
		
Click to expand...

Warnock was on the radio this morning saying he would like the job, but only for the pay off he got when sacked 4 months into the job


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Another rammel comment based On nowt. that is a list of current yellow cards per team off the prem league site. At that rate City do less than 1 and a half tactical fouls per game. That’s if all yellow cards are tactical fouls, which there not.


1.





Leeds United58
2.





Newcastle United51
3.





Aston Villa45
4.





Manchester United44
5.





Brighton and Hove Albion43
6.





Southampton43
7.





Everton42
8.





Brentford40
9.





Crystal Palace40
10.





Chelsea39
11.





Norwich City38
12.





Burnley37
13.





Wolverhampton Wanderers36
14.





Watford35
15.





Tottenham Hotspur34
16.





Arsenal30
17.





Manchester City30
18.





Liverpool29
19.





Leicester City26
20.





West Ham United26
		
Click to expand...

Methinks he doth protest too much.   Got to love the way you moan as much about referees as the rest of us & then rely on a referee based stat to defend pep & City

You might as well book Fernandinho in the tunnel before every game because his job is the cynical tactical foul.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			That would be a wonderful point if,

A, all your tactical fouls resulted in bookings.
B, A team averaging 70% is gonna have less opportunity to foul.
C, it was also stated I considered it Karma for BARCELONA......

But you get up on your high horse......

🇲🇽🌮🌯
		
Click to expand...

Whats Barcelona got to do with City and Pep. Hows that Karma. Here’s a thought. How many yellows have been given against a team having 70% possession. Bit do you hear City fans moan. What about time wasting when City have 70% possession. Do you hear City fans moan. Teams waste so much time V City. Then fans whinge when City have a “ tactical foul”. Climb back on your donkey Coz an horse don’t want to be under you. 😉


----------



## fundy (Jan 24, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Methinks he doth protest too much.   Got to love the way you moan as much about referees as the rest of us & then rely on a referee based stat to defend pep & City

You might as well book Fernandinho in the tunnel before every game because his job is the cynical tactical foul.
		
Click to expand...


Rodri taking it to a new level from Fernadinho this year, got away with a blatant booking again at the weekend


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Whats Barcelona got to do with City and Pep. Hows that Karma. Here’s a thought. How many yellows have been given against a team having 70% possession. Bit do you hear City fans moan. What about time wasting when City have 70% possession. Do you hear City fans moan. Teams waste so much time V City. Then fans whinge when City have a “ tactical foul”. Climb back on your donkey Coz an horse don’t want to be under you. 😉
		
Click to expand...

Seems to have escaped you but Pep managed both Barcelona and City, & Papas said it was karma for Pep.   Your ass is waiting...


----------



## nickjdavis (Jan 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Another rammel comment based On nowt. that is a list of current yellow cards per team off the prem league site. At that rate City do less than 1 and a half tactical fouls per game. That’s if all yellow cards are tactical fouls, which there not.


1.





Leeds United58
2.





Newcastle United51
3.





Aston Villa45
4.





Manchester United44
5.





Brighton and Hove Albion43
6.





Southampton43
7.





Everton42
8.





Brentford40
9.





Crystal Palace40
10.





Chelsea39
11.





Norwich City38
12.





Burnley37
13.





Wolverhampton Wanderers36
14.





Watford35
15.





Tottenham Hotspur34
16.





Arsenal30
17.





Manchester City30
18.





Liverpool29
19.





Leicester City26
20.





West Ham United26
		
Click to expand...


How can Burnley be only 12th? They're the biggest thugs out there.

(Where's the popcorn emoticon when you want it?)


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 24, 2022)

JamesR said:



			So they get away with avoiding yellows, when other teams don’t?
		
Click to expand...

What that don’t show either is there is only Chelsea that have played more games in the league than City.


----------



## fundy (Jan 24, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			How can Burnley be only 12th? They're the biggest thugs out there.

(Where's the popcorn emoticon when you want it?)
		
Click to expand...

that they only got 2 cards at arsenal this weekend the perfect explanation why they are where they are in that table, could easily have been 5 yellows and a red


----------



## nickjdavis (Jan 24, 2022)

Comoros have had to start their least sixteen game in AFCON against Cameroon with an outfield player in goal, due to their only keeper in the squad being ruled out due to Covid related restrictions.

As if that wasn't bad enough, Comoros have had a player sent off after 8 mins.

I'm piling in on a nil-nil draw!!!


----------



## JamesR (Jan 24, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			How can Burnley be only 12th? They're the biggest thugs out there.

(Where's the popcorn emoticon when you want it?)
		
Click to expand...

Don’t worry, Burnley fans don’t have a pissy fit if you are a bit critical of their team.


----------



## fundy (Jan 24, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Comoros have had to start their least sixteen game in AFCON against Cameroon with an outfield player in goal, due to their only keeper in the squad being ruled out due to Covid related restrictions.

As if that wasn't bad enough, Comoros have had a player sent off after 8 mins.

I'm piling in on a nil-nil draw!!! 

Click to expand...


utterly stupid red card, trying to make a "city" foul in the middle of the park and went down the guys achilles


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Don’t worry, Burnley fan don’t have a pissy fit if you are a bit critical of their team.
		
Click to expand...

🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Seems to have escaped you but Pep managed both Barcelona and City, & Papas said it was karma for Pep.   Your ass is waiting...
		
Click to expand...

So show me facts not emotional comments. Am waiting with me ass hanging out. 
Facts not opinion.
Facts.
Like what I posted.
Facts.
I can understand you jumping on the bandwagon because Chelsea are having a rammel season up to yet. But you could help Papas looking for facts. Maybe post them against Bayern, Real, athletico, PSG etc. talking of Karma. Did it level itself out at the Weekend when Silva was doing an “experienced“ tactical dive when Kane shoved him to the ground.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Whats Barcelona got to do with City and Pep. Hows that Karma. Here’s a thought. How many yellows have been given against a team having 70% possession. Bit do you hear City fans moan. What about time wasting when City have 70% possession. Do you hear City fans moan. Teams waste so much time V City. Then fans whinge when City have a “ tactical foul”. Climb back on your donkey Coz an horse don’t want to be under you. 😉
		
Click to expand...

Do we hear you (city) moan about time wasting? Yes. Literally the start of this little thread.....

And my point was that any injustice against city affects Pep, so it's Karma for HIM.

Maybe when you can comprehend what is originally written I'll pay attention the the rammel (drivel for the rest of us) that you type.

And you didnt quote facts. Facts prove things. You quoted stats. 

And there's a well known phrase about them......

Anyways. I'm out. Been avoiding this place for a reason....


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 24, 2022)

I feel Watford deserve what they get. Ranieiri sacked after 14 games. I'm sorry and while I know his record has been poor, but you need time to work with a squad and this window was a chance to get fresh players in and maybe offload some he thought surplus to requirements https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60092479

They seem to be a very knee jerk club and if there instant success then the manager is out. That isn't any stable platform to build progress on and the uncertainty and regular changing of manager has to affect the players with new styles of play to learn every few months


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Do we hear you (city) moan about time wasting? Yes. Literally the start of this little thread.....

And my point was that any injustice against city affects Pep, so it's Karma for HIM.

Maybe when you can comprehend what is originally written I'll pay attention the the rammel (drivel for the rest of us) that you type.

And you didnt quote facts. Facts prove things. You quoted stats.

And there's a well known phrase about them......

*Anyways. I'm out. Been avoiding this place for a reason....*

Click to expand...



And there’s the reason you have been avoiding it. (Actually like I have). Why would you quote it’s Karma for Pep when he managed a team in another country 10 years ago. Not only that. Was the same accusations said when he managed Bayern. 
Back in a few weeks


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			So show me facts not emotional comments. Am waiting with me ass hanging out.
Facts not opinion.
Facts.
Like what I posted.
Facts.
I can understand you jumping on the bandwagon because Chelsea are having a rammel season up to yet. But you could help Papas looking for facts. Maybe post them against Bayern, Real, athletico, PSG etc. talking of Karma. Did it level itself out at the Weekend when Silva was doing an “experienced“ tactical dive when Kane shoved him to the ground.
		
Click to expand...


Why do I need to to show you facts to explain to you that Papas' comment was about Pep & not City?  You bit where there was no reason to, unless it's a guilty conscience. 

Yeah, might not be our best season but I've always got the DVD of last season's Champions League final to cheer me up.  Must have another look to remind myself who we beat...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Why do I need to to show you facts to explain to you that Papas' comment was about Pep & not City?  You bit where there was no reason to, unless it's a guilty conscience.

Yeah, might not be our best season but I've always got the DVD of last season's Champions League final to cheer me up.  Must have another look to remind myself who we beat...
		
Click to expand...

Ah the Champions League Trophy - the one money can’t buy 😀

Must be time for the World Club Cup soon ?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			0 from 3 = seriously I never ever expect VAR to decide in our favour.
		
Click to expand...

seems VAR favour Manchester 🤷‍♂️


----------



## fundy (Jan 24, 2022)

why are Arsenal fans so desperate to sign someone who doesnt want to play for them. Its almost like they havent watched the last 5 years


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485718997320491009
Decent strike 😂


----------



## Piece (Jan 24, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I feel Watford deserve what they get. Ranieiri sacked after 14 games. I'm sorry and while I know his record has been poor, but you need time to work with a squad and this window was a chance to get fresh players in and maybe offload some he thought surplus to requirements https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60092479

They seem to be a very knee jerk club and if there instant success then the manager is out. That isn't any stable platform to build progress on and the uncertainty and regular changing of manager has to affect the players with new styles of play to learn every few months
		
Click to expand...

Is this the same Ranieri that Fulham sacked after 17 games, only winning three games in 3.5 months?


----------



## fundy (Jan 24, 2022)

Horrible news coming out of Cameroon that a stampede before the game killed 6 people and 40+ injured in hospital


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			I think the 5 subs is here for more season with the lack of pre season, quite like your rules but no chance the big boys agree to that


OK one part to add for me, should be specific sub windows in the match and cant use subs at any other time other than due to injury. Subs at HT 60 mins 80 mins or not at all to stop club using substitutions to time waste/break up the game
		
Click to expand...

Get a timekeeper and this problem, along with time wasting, goes away. 

Have I mentioned I’m in favour of having a timekeeper before?


----------



## JamesR (Jan 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Do you not think people get a bit too precious when their team gets criticised?


----------



## BiMGuy (Jan 25, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Get a timekeeper and this problem, along with time wasting, goes away.

Have I mentioned I’m in favour of having a timekeeper before?
		
Click to expand...

This is needed more than anything these days. Every time play stops. So does the clock. Time wasting and faking injury would stop instantly.


----------



## Swango1980 (Jan 25, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			This is needed more than anything these days. Every time play stops. So does the clock. Time wasting and faking injury would stop instantly.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure it would, at least entirely. I think a lot of the time "faking injury" is done to disturb the rhythm and momentum of the opposition, or to simply have a rest and regroup. Also, faking injury is done to try and influence the ref's decision in punishing the opponent, although that is separate to the time wasting issue.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Do you not think people get a bit too precious when their team gets criticised?
		
Click to expand...

The ones that do are definitely the telly clapper/social media watching/FKW types. It  seems to be  the default position of proving they're uber fans.

Btw i think you've missed my point😉


----------



## JamesR (Jan 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			The ones that do are definitely the telly clapper/social media watching/FKW types. It  seems to be  the default position of proving they're uber fans.

Btw i think you've missed my point😉
		
Click to expand...

Probably,...thought you were questioning my point


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 25, 2022)

Strong reports that Watford are going to appoint Roy Hodgson as manager. A change in tack from their past appointments. A pragmatic manager who could stabilise things there. Are Watford fans happy to trade a bit of excitement for staying up?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 25, 2022)

Just had a look at the Premier League winter break. No games now until Saturday 5th Feb. One game that weekend only, the highly anticipated match of Burnley v Watford (sorry Burnley and Watford fans). So, the Premier League is truly getting a winter break. Does it not make a mockery of managers moaning about the number of matches they have to play? Before winter breaks, managers would often moan they needed one, so players could have a good rest. Yet, now they have one, they moan about the number of matches they have to play, especially over Xmas (perhaps they wouldn't have such a congested schedule had they been able to play a game or 2 over the next 2 weeks).

Also, how many teams will be using this rest period to fly around the globe to play football in other countries?

I know they tried this a few years ago, but staggered it so that there'd be 5 games one weekend, and 5 games the next. I wonder why they didn't try that again?


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## Neilds (Jan 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just had a look at the Premier League winter break. No games now until Saturday 5th Feb. One game that weekend only, the highly anticipated match of Burnley v Watford (sorry Burnley and Watford fans). So, the Premier League is truly getting a winter break. Does it not make a mockery of managers moaning about the number of matches they have to play? Before winter breaks, managers would often moan they needed one, so players could have a good rest. Yet, now they have one, they moan about the number of matches they have to play, especially over Xmas (perhaps they wouldn't have such a congested schedule had they been able to play a game or 2 over the next 2 weeks).

Also, how many teams will be using this rest period to fly around the globe to play football in other countries?

I know they tried this a few years ago, but staggered it so that there'd be 5 games one weekend, and 5 games the next. I wonder why they didn't try that again?
		
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I have a great way to reduce the amount of games, and how to spread the games out a bit throughout the season - It involves freeing up a few midweek dates throughout the season by reducing the number of European games.  Get rid of all the group games, make it 1 leg only (they can do it for the domestic competitions) and stop rewarding poor teams by dropping them into the cup below for even more games.
Bet the clubs don't even consider this idea


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## Swango1980 (Jan 25, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I have a great way to reduce the amount of games, and how to spread the games out a bit throughout the season - It involves freeing up a few midweek dates throughout the season by reducing the number of European games.  Get rid of all the group games, make it 1 leg only (they can do it for the domestic competitions) and stop rewarding poor teams by dropping them into the cup below for even more games.
Bet the clubs don't even consider this idea
		
Click to expand...

The Champions League certainly felt a more exciting competition when ONLY the champions from each league qualified. But, we know that clubs want as much money as they possibly can, whilst pleaing to have less games so the players can rest. Sounds very much like they want their cake and then eat it. I mean, it is that ridiculous now, they have a Europa Conference League.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just had a look at the Premier League winter break. No games now until Saturday 5th Feb. One game that weekend only, the highly anticipated match of Burnley v Watford (sorry Burnley and Watford fans). So, the Premier League is truly getting a winter break. Does it not make a mockery of managers moaning about the number of matches they have to play? Before winter breaks, managers would often moan they needed one, so players could have a good rest. Yet, now they have one, they moan about the number of matches they have to play, especially over Xmas (perhaps they wouldn't have such a congested schedule had they been able to play a game or 2 over the next 2 weeks).

Also, how many teams will be using this rest period to fly around the globe to play football in other countries?

I know they tried this a few years ago, but staggered it so that there'd be 5 games one weekend, and 5 games the next. I wonder why they didn't try that again?
		
Click to expand...

It’s FA Cup 4th round weekend as well, plenty of PL Teams will be playing.

Your next fixture is actually 4th!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I have a great way to reduce the amount of games, and how to spread the games out a bit throughout the season - It involves freeing up a few midweek dates throughout the season by reducing the number of European games.  Get rid of all the group games, make it 1 leg only (they can do it for the domestic competitions) and stop rewarding poor teams by dropping them into the cup below for even more games.
Bet the clubs don't even consider this idea
		
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They won’t consider it because of the level of money given to the clubs from the sponsers 

Many of the competitions are vastly different to what they were 30 years ago 

The sport is different , the players are , that genie left a long time ago - all those top class players that make the game and sport exciting go where the money is 

It will always come down to opinions on if the game is better now than it was before - the level of play on the pitch is certainly different 

And a lot of the issues are driven by the Telly companies and competitions


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## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Strong reports that Watford are going to appoint Roy Hodgson as manager. A change in tack from their past appointments. *A pragmatic manager who could stabilise things there.* Are Watford fans happy to trade a bit of excitement for staying up?
		
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Exactly what Everton need.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Exactly what Everton need.
		
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I did wonder which of you would crack first on that . It was a bit of an open goal.

It's a while since we had a Big Sam picture if anyone wants to post one


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## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2022)

Who wants to watch the likes of PSG smashing league winners of Hungary,Slovenia, Gibraltar,Slovakia,Serbia etc in a knockout European Cup? 

Whilst the CL may not satisfy everyone, its a better product than the one above. 

I agree though no CL teams should be dropping into the Europa etc.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Exactly what Everton need.
		
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And a miracle.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I did wonder which of you would crack first on that . It was a bit of an open goal.

It's a while since we had a Big Sam picture if anyone wants to post one 

Click to expand...

I thought about suggesting it last week but i was otherwise engaged. I did suggest it in one of the chats im in🤣


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## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			And a miracle.

Click to expand...

Hodgson's the man!!


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## Neilds (Jan 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They won’t consider it because of the level of money given to the clubs from the sponsers

Many of the competitions are vastly different to what they were 30 years ago

The sport is different , the players are , that genie left a long time ago - all those top class players that make the game and sport exciting go where the money is

It will always come down to opinions on if the game is better now than it was before - the level of play on the pitch is certainly different

And a lot of the issues are driven by the Telly companies and competitions
		
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I agree the game is different form what it was 30 years ago, but does that mean it is actually better?  Just because (some) clubs are richer doesn't mean all are.  Clubs like Derby are on the brink of disappearing because they are chasing the impossible dream of European football, others are flexing the financial rules as much as they can to do the same.  Match tickets, kits, merch, etc is getting out of reach for most normal fans whilst payers get paid obscene amounts of money.  You could even make an argument that on of the reasons that VAR was introduced to ensure the money goes ot the right teams without the lower teams getting the lucky break or dodgy decision 

Greed isn't always good


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought about suggesting it last week but i was otherwise engaged. I did suggest it in one of the chats im in🤣
		
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I've got a phone full of Whatsapp pictures of Agent Rafa and Sam in the last few weeks sent by caring relatives. Sadly we have no comeback right now. It is a time to just sit and take it


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## nickjdavis (Jan 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485718997320491009
Decent strike 😂
		
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Was a really good game and Comoros gave a fantastic account of themselves considering they played for 82 minutes with 10 men. The left back who played in goal pulled off some cracking saves.

I reckon if it was 11 v 11 then Cameroon could have been in a bit of trouble.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I agree the game is different form what it was 30 years ago, but does that mean it is actually better?  Just because (some) clubs are richer doesn't mean all are.  Clubs like Derby are on the brink of disappearing because they are chasing the impossible dream of European football, others are flexing the financial rules as much as they can to do the same.  Match tickets, kits, merch, etc is getting out of reach for most normal fans whilst payers get paid obscene amounts of money.  You could even make an argument that on of the reasons that VAR was introduced to ensure the money goes ot the right teams without the lower teams getting the lucky break or dodgy decision 

Greed isn't always good
		
Click to expand...

That’s what happened when the Prem started , the clubs like Derby etc didn’t mind the money when they were getting it 

But there is a huge financial gap between the Prem and the EFL - the clubs aren’t going to give the money up because they need it to pay the players who know the riches are there to be grabbed 

You’re not saying anything that people don’t know - but what’s the alternative , the horse has well and truely bolted. 

Right now Liverpool for example work within a budget of the money they earned , for some that’s not enough , they want to see the club spending more on players , they want to see the club giving Salah his £500k a week , they don’t care about wage budgets and clubs in debt because they see some clubs just spend way beyond what they earn but clever accounting etc covers it all up - one club managed to make huge profits during Covid unbelievably 

There are lots of fingers to be pointed - clubs , Telly companies , fans , players


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 25, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I agree the game is different form what it was 30 years ago, but does that mean it is actually better?  Just because (some) clubs are richer doesn't mean all are.  Clubs like Derby are on the brink of disappearing because they are chasing the impossible dream of European football, others are flexing the financial rules as much as they can to do the same.  Match tickets, kits, merch, etc is getting out of reach for most normal fans whilst payers get paid obscene amounts of money.  You could even make an argument that on of the reasons that VAR was introduced to ensure the money goes ot the right teams without the lower teams getting the lucky break or dodgy decision 

Greed isn't always good
		
Click to expand...

It has definitely changed and not for the better. There will be another Wimbledon coming from non-league to the top table and winning an FA cup along the way. Lets not forget they weren't a one or two season wonder either. Some sides got into Europe but Leeds in particular paid a heavy price for chasing that dream. It isn't even the top league. Even as far down as League 2 and the Conference, replica shirts are becoming more and more expensive and lots of clubs are putting up prices each season as well as price rises on food, drink and programmes making even supporting your local team a financial burden in these austere times.

The problem is the whole of the European big sides are at it in terms of trying to chase the big money and manipulating the rules to suit their needs and there is no pulling that big in unless you get buy in from Fifa and Uefa and as there are busy with their noses in the financial trough themselves that is not going to happen. The rich will keep on getting rich, the less well off will compete in the bottom 6 of the PL and simply try to avoid relegation. Clubs like my own will yo-yo and exist off parachute payments making them the dominant force in the championship.


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## JamesR (Jan 25, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I agree the game is different form what it was 30 years ago, but does that mean it is actually better?  Just because (some) clubs are richer doesn't mean all are.  Clubs like Derby are on the brink of disappearing because they are chasing the impossible dream of European football, others are flexing the financial rules as much as they can to do the same.  Match tickets, kits, merch, etc is getting out of reach for most normal fans whilst payers get paid obscene amounts of money.  You could even make an argument that on of the reasons that VAR was introduced to ensure the money goes ot the right teams without the lower teams getting the lucky break or dodgy decision 

Greed isn't always good
		
Click to expand...

Derby were merely chasing Premier League football, Europe was miles off the radar


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## arnieboy (Jan 25, 2022)

Piece said:



			Is this the same Ranieri that Fulham sacked after 17 games, only winning three games in 3.5 months?
		
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They obviously didn't ask for a reference.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 25, 2022)

Good to see Watford have gone for a new young and dynamic manager.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 25, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s FA Cup 4th round weekend as well, plenty of PL Teams will be playing.

Your next fixture is actually 4th!
		
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Good point, I filtered the fixtures to show Premier League only.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've got a phone full of Whatsapp pictures of Agent Rafa and Sam in the last few weeks sent by caring relatives. Sadly we have no comeback right now. It is a time to just sit and take it 

Click to expand...

Everton dont deserve Big Sam after the way you's treated him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Everton dont deserve Big Sam after the way you's treated him.
		
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😂😂 He wouldn’t come to a team to be relegated again.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Everton dont deserve Big Sam after the way you's treated him.
		
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What do you mean, we bought him a nice villa in Portugal didn't we?


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## Piece (Jan 25, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good to see Watford have gone for a new young and dynamic manager.
		
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Is Marco Snake available?


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## fundy (Jan 25, 2022)

Some goal in the Afcon


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486054690852941824


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## pauljames87 (Jan 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			Some goal in the Afcon


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486054690852941824

Click to expand...

But can he do it on a cold Tuesday evening in Stoke?


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## Neilds (Jan 26, 2022)

Rotherham United still on track for a League and Cup double 

Ok, League 1 and Papa John's Trophy but still great to see


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## AmandaJR (Jan 26, 2022)

"Alexa, good morning" - I do this every morning - today's response is hilarious!


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## Stuart_C (Jan 26, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Rotherham United still on track for a League and Cup double 

Ok, League 1 and Papa John's Trophy but still great to see
		
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A lot more than what Everton are on track for.😁😁


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			A lot more than what Everton are on track for.😁😁
		
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Rent free😇


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## GB72 (Jan 26, 2022)

Not seen the footage but reports suggesting that football is still not taking concussion seriously. Time to take the decision out of the hands of teams and have a medical professional watching the footage wiht the ability to signal the ref and pull al player out of the game for assessment as well has having temporary concussion subs whilst this goes on. Oh, and call me a cynic but there would also need to be associated severe penalies for simulation.


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## Beezerk (Jan 26, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Not seen the footage but reports suggesting that football is still not taking concussion seriously. Time to take the decision out of the hands of teams and have a medical professional watching the footage wiht the ability to signal the ref and pull al player out of the game for assessment as well has having temporary concussion subs whilst this goes on. Oh, and call me a cynic but there would also need to be associated severe penalies for simulation.
		
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Are you on about Mane? Apparently he had to be taken to hospital after playing on despite taking a bad knock to the head.

*edit*
Just seen the video, he’s out stone cold along with the keeper 😳
Unbelievable that they allowed him to play, gave the keeper a red card as well to top if off 🙈


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## GB72 (Jan 26, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Are you on about Mane? Apparently he had to be taken to hospital after playing on despite taking a bad knock to the head.

*edit*
Just seen the video, he’s out stone cold along with the keeper 😳
Unbelievable that they allowed him to play, gave the keeper a red card as well to top if off 🙈
		
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Yes, that was what I was talking about. The team and the player should be taken out of the equation when it comes to head contact.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2022)

Latest VAR Stats and how each Club has been affected:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486288774711676932


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## Papas1982 (Jan 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486813742876688388sending off 🤔
		
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Outside the box. Dangerous high foot.
could argue if he doesn’t clatter him it’s a goal scoring opportunity.
seems to be the general theme. Was a sending off for an African keeper who head butted Mane doing similar. (coincidence it was Mane, not point scoring).


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## Dando (Jan 27, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Outside the box. Dangerous high foot.
could argue if he doesn’t clatter him it’s a goal scoring opportunity.
seems to be the general theme. Was a sending off for an African keeper who head butted Mane doing similar. (coincidence it was Mane, not point scoring).
		
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Can’t see how it’s a goal scoring opportunity when the keeper had already cleared the ball


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 27, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486813742876688388
Sending off ? 

They downgraded it to a yellow


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 27, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Outside the box. Dangerous high foot.
could argue if he doesn’t clatter him it’s a goal scoring opportunity.
seems to be the general theme. Was a sending off for an African keeper who head butted Mane doing similar. (coincidence it was Mane, not point scoring).
		
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Alisson cleared the ball so not sure about the goalscoring opportunity


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## Papas1982 (Jan 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Alisson cleared the ball so not sure about the goalscoring opportunity
		
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With a high boot. Been shown countless times winning the ball is irrelevant when they rule for a high boot. 

So their logic will be, won ball illegally and in doing so, stopped goalscoring opportunity. 

Not saying I agree. But reckon that's their ruling.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 27, 2022)

Chaos at the end of the game, Allison punched the ball clear and collided with the forward, penalty given, forward rolled around clutching his head, Ali sent off, ref looked at VAR, rescinded another Ali card and gave Brazil a goal kick!


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## 4LEX (Jan 27, 2022)

African and South American football is mental!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486960060920123393
Expected the window to be a quiet one but if this happens it’s a steal at that price , prob a replacement for Mane


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			With a high boot. Been shown countless times winning the ball is irrelevant when they rule for a high boot.

So their logic will be, won ball illegally and in doing so, stopped goalscoring opportunity.

Not saying I agree. But reckon that's their ruling.
		
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Having seen the incident again, the Ecaudor player ran into Ali's leg. The ball had long gone.

Not defending Ali here neither. We dont wanna be seeing those types of collision being called fouls. 

Generally, Football has gone too far with soft fouls.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486960060920123393
Expected the window to be a quiet one but if this happens it’s a steal at that price , prob a replacement for Mane
		
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Or Salah after they've cashed in on him 🤔


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## Bdill93 (Jan 28, 2022)

Well its a great time to be a Villa fan. 

Done some solid business this window, maybe one more to come too. 

Best January window you could ask for considering prices are normally inflated


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## 3offTheTee (Jan 28, 2022)

Rooney turns down Everton talks


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## Bdill93 (Jan 28, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Rooney turns down Everton talks
		
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I think a good call at present. There is no rush to get to the prem, once you're there its cut throat and he doesnt need that so early in his career.

Derby is one hell of a challenge, if they pulled off the impossible it would do more for him I think.


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## hairball_89 (Jan 28, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Rooney turns down Everton talks
		
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Good for him. That job is going to be like the Liverpool job for Gerrard. He, like Gerrard, clearly wants to be sure he has the experience and know how to do it properly, rather than taking a gig because nobody else wants it like Lampard did at Chelsea (IMO), leading to the inevitable.


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## Hobbit (Jan 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I think a good call at present. There is no rush to get to the prem, once you're there its cut throat and he doesnt need that so early in his career.

Derby is one hell of a challenge, if they pulled off the impossible it would do more for him I think.
		
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Will Derby still be in existence in a month’s time? The EFL has given Derby a month’s extension till the end of Feb to sort out their finances and find a buyer.


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## DanFST (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Having seen the incident again, the Ecaudor player ran into Ali's leg. The ball had long gone.

Not defending Ali here neither. We dont wanna be seeing those types of collision being called fouls.

Generally, Football has gone too far with soft fouls.
		
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Fine when Salah does it tho right?


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## Bdill93 (Jan 28, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Will Derby still be in existence in a month’s time? The EFL has given Derby a month’s extension till the end of Feb to sort out their finances and find a buyer.
		
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Maybe not, but no one can fault what hes done there and I will admire him forever for sticking it through till the end when he could easily have walked away from a hell hole.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Fine when Salah does it tho right?
		
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Hooorayyyy the penny has finally dropped. Well done Dan, star of the week  badge for you👍👍👍


🙄🙄


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 28, 2022)

Board meeting at Goodison tonight, announcement hopefully this evening or early tomorrow. We need someone in place sharpish to sort out a signing or two before the end of play on Monday.


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## 3offTheTee (Jan 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Board meeting at Goodison tonight, announcement hopefully this evening or early tomorrow. We need someone in place sharpish to sort out a signing or two before the end of play on Monday.
		
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Sure you do not mean 8 or 9! Thought  of you yesterday whilst in Booths. Saw some mince pie ice cream. I was tempted


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 28, 2022)

I really can’t understand why they would go for Lampard - *Pereira* has sort of a track record and do ok at Porto a few years back but Lampard ? 

Surely their best option right now is sticking with Ferguson until the end of the season and then maybe look at someone like Franks , even Farke and then give them time

The reaction for Pereira isn’t great as well - some want him out before even getting the job


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## Jimaroid (Jan 28, 2022)

I think the worse thing we could do is rush into another set of bad appointments under self inflicted pressure of time running out in the transfer window. 

So of course that being the worst thing we could do it’s exactly what’s going to happen. 

Tim Cahill rumour coming in as some sort of technical director is interesting. 

I’d settle for Dunc for the rest of the season now, I just can’t see how that’s a worse gamble than the other options.


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## arnieboy (Jan 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Maybe not, but no one can fault what hes done there and I will admire him forever for sticking it through till the end when he could easily have walked away from a hell hole.
		
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I am no fan of Rooney but I applaud him for his dedication to Derby, I hope it all works out for him and them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I think the worse thing we could do is rush into another set of bad appointments under self inflicted pressure of time running out in the transfer window.

So of course that being the worst thing we could do it’s exactly what’s going to happen.

Tim Cahill rumour coming in as some sort of technical director is interesting.

I’d settle for Dunc for the rest of the season now, I just can’t see how that’s a worse gamble than the other options.
		
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I’d be happy with Lampard tbh, knows the PL, had Chelsea 4th when he was sacked, gave youth a chance because of the transfer ban and played a decent style of football.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I’d be happy with Lampard tbh, knows the PL, had Chelsea 4th when he was sacked, gave youth a chance because of the transfer ban and played a decent style of football.
		
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I'd be worried with Lampard tbh mate. He struggled  defensively with Chelsea. 

Tuchel has improved them with the same players. You have to hope he's learnt from his mistakes.

Its desperate times right now at Goodison,  they need to stay up at all costs.

If they went down this season can you see that squad staying together and would it be enough to get out of the Championship at the 1st attempt? 

I'm not sure it is.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

arnieboy said:



			I am no fan of Rooney but I applaud him for his dedication to Derby, I hope it all works out for him and them.
		
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Im not, i had him as next Everton manager 🤬🤬🤬


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I think the worse thing we could do is rush into another set of bad appointments under self inflicted pressure of time running out in the transfer window.

So of course that being the worst thing we could do it’s exactly what’s going to happen.

Tim Cahill rumour coming in as some sort of technical director is interesting.

*I’d settle for Dunc for the rest of the season now, I just can’t see how that’s a worse gamble than the other options.*

Click to expand...

He'd take yous down. I'm convinced.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd be worried with Lampard tbh mate. He struggled  defensively with Chelsea.

Tuchel has improved them with the same players. You have to hope he's learnt from his mistakes.

Its desperate times right now at Goodison,  they need to stay up at all costs.

If they went down this season can you see that squad staying together and would it be enough to get out of the Championship at the 1st attempt?

I'm not sure it is.
		
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I don’t think it was that bad mate, in his first full season at Chelsea:

- Finished 4th (Same points as 3rd)
- 69 goals scored (3rd best)
- 54 goals conceded (11th best with Kepa)
- Handed 11,700 minutes to academy graduates.
Reached the FA Cup Final.

That would be a massive improvement on where we currently stand.


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## DanFST (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Hooorayyyy the penny has finally dropped. Well done Dan, star of the week  badge for you👍👍👍


🙄🙄
		
Click to expand...


My sarcasm didn't come across, you're consistent with all teams and the fact the games gone to


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## Jimaroid (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He'd take yous down. I'm convinced.
		
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I think they all might. We’re picking from a buffet of slops.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think it was that bad mate, in his first full season at Chelsea:

- Finished 4th (Same points as 3rd)
- 69 goals scored (3rd best)
- 54 goals conceded (11th best with Kepa)
- Handed 11,700 minutes to academy graduates.
Reached the FA Cup Final.

That would be a massive improvement on where we currently stand.
		
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TBF he did all of that with far superior players to whats in your squad.

I think a lot of what he did was down to the team being galvanised by circumstance. He then binned off Abraham who'd been a shining light. 

Even at Derby it was on the back of Chelsea loans. 

I think you'll stay up regardless, but I wouldn't want lampard at saints.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I think they all might. We’re picking from a buffet of slops.
		
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Here's hoping 😂😂😂


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think it was that bad mate, in his first full season at Chelsea:

- Finished 4th (Same points as 3rd)
- 69 goals scored (3rd best)
- 54 goals conceded (11th best with Kepa)
- Handed 11,700 minutes to academy graduates.
Reached the FA Cup Final.

That would be a massive improvement on where we currently stand.
		
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Kepa is a better keeper than Pickford an chelsea had a better defence than Everton and his team had the conceded that many goals.

That would worry me alone. Nevermind the rest of the Everton squad.

I can remember watching some of Chelsea's games and some of the defending was horrific.

For a few of the good blues like yourself i hope they stay up, for the majority i hope they go down.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

DanFST said:



			My sarcasm didn't come across, you're consistent with all teams and the fact the games gone to 

Click to expand...

Yeah sorry totally missed it. 🤷


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Kepa is a better keeper than Pickford an chelsea had a better defence than Everton and his team had the conceded that many goals.

That would worry me alone. Nevermind the rest of the Everton squad.

I can remember watching some of Chelsea's games and some of the defending was horrific.

For a few of the good blues like yourself i hope they stay up, for the majority i hope they go down.
		
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But he did shout at Klopp once on the sideline - that’s Everton manager material straight away 😁


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## Jimaroid (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Here's hoping 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

It would be a very effective way to get rid of all the baggage we have. 🤔


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			It would be a very effective way to get rid of all the baggage we have. 🤔
		
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You wouldnt have a team😂😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Kepa is a better keeper than Pickford an chelsea had a better defence than Everton and his team had the conceded that many goals.

That would worry me alone. Nevermind the rest of the Everton squad.

I can remember watching some of Chelsea's games and some of the defending was horrific.

For a few of the good blues like yourself i hope they stay up, for the majority i hope they go down.
		
Click to expand...

I genuinely believe he’d get more respect than the other idiot (pereira) and maybe we need a change from Big Duncs pure emotion.

A young British manager with nothing to lose suits me.


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## Jimaroid (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You wouldnt have a team😂😂
		
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What’s new?


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## Slime (Jan 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Well its a great time to be a Villa fan.

Done some solid business this window, maybe one more to come too.

Best January window you could ask for considering prices are normally inflated
		
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Well, it's an awful time to be a Man United fan.

Done virtually no business this window, expecting bugger all to change, too.

Worst January window I could ask for considering *WE NEED A CDM ............................  still !!!*


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			Well, it's an awful time to be a Man United fan.

Done virtually no business this window, expecting bugger all to change, too.

Worst January window I could ask for considering *WE NEED A CDM ............................  still !!!*

Click to expand...

genuine question, which CDM do you actually want and do you think it will change anything?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I genuinely believe he’d get more respect than the other idiot (pereira) and maybe we need a change from Big Duncs pure emotion.

A young British manager with nothing to lose suits me.
		
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Why's Pereira an idiot? 

Duncan's part of the problem imo. You cant work under 5 managers and not accept responsibility.

Lampard may have nothing to lose, can moshiri afford his business to lose PL money?


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Why's Pereira an idiot?

Duncan's part of the problem imo. You cant work under 5 managers and not accept responsibility.

Lampard may have nothing to lose, can moshiri afford his business to lose PL money?
		
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Everton fans love an early opinion, if they want Lampard above all else then good luck to them, theyre gonna need it (ps we'll have Doucore when you go down plse  )

Big argument to just give big Dunc the job and see what happens


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Everton fans love an early opinion, if they want Lampard above all else then good luck to them, theyre gonna need it (ps we'll have Doucore when you go down plse  )

*Big argument to just give big Dunc the job and see what happens* 

Click to expand...


I'm all for it, it'll be fun.


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm all for it, it'll be fun.
		
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I may be biased having a couple of good mates who are from the blue side of Scouse town lol


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## Slime (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			genuine question, which CDM do you actually want and do you think it will change anything?
		
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Declan Rice would be my first choice ............................ by a distance.
I've watched a few WHU games recently and he purrs around like a Rolls Royce in the midst of the chaos that is the Premier League.
I think he'd change just about everything.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Why's Pereira an idiot?

Duncan's part of the problem imo. You cant work under 5 managers and not accept responsibility.

Lampard may have nothing to lose, can moshiri afford his business to lose PL money?
		
Click to expand...

I listened to the interview he did with Sky this week and was very unimpressed, talking about “knowing the fans” and how the interviews went, thought it was very unprofessional to even do the interview.

I’d of been happy (as I mentioned when they sacked Benitez) to let Ferguson have the rest of the season, but once they’ve started interviews it says to me they don’t want him as Manager in the long term and so if the 3 are in the running, give it to Lampard.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



*Everton fans love an early opinion*, if they want Lampard above all else then good luck to them, theyre gonna need it (ps we'll have Doucore when you go down plse  )

Big argument to just give big Dunc the job and see what happens 

Click to expand...


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			Declan Rice would be my first choice ............................ by a distance.
I've watched a few WHU games recently and he purrs around like a Rolls Royce in the midst of the chaos that is the Premier League.
I think he'd change just about everything.
		
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Yup, hes top top top class for me, think hes a complete midfielder now too not just a defensive mid. Think there will be an auction for him in the summer tbh, dont think hes available this January, pretty sure theres not a side in the prem who wouldnt be better for having him, despite how Phil rates Fabinho lol


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I listened to the interview he did with Sky this week and was very unimpressed, talking about “knowing the fans” and how the interviews went, thought it was very unprofessional to even do the interview.

I’d of been happy (as I mentioned when they sacked Benitez) to let Ferguson have the rest of the season, but once they’ve started interviews it says to me they don’t want him as Manager in the long term and so if the 3 are in the running, give it to Lampard.
		
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Infairness he's been belittled here locally from what i've heard and seen. He deserves a right to reply.

Would  you be happy sticking with Lampard if you go down?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Yup, hes top top top class for me, think hes a complete midfielder now too not just a defensive mid. Think there will be an auction for him in the summer tbh, dont think hes available this January, pretty sure theres not a side in the prem who wouldnt be better for having him, *despite how Phil rates Fabinho* lol
		
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Oi stop it. 

Rice wouldnt get in our midfield of  ox, milner and hendo😁😁


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Infairness he's been belittled here locally from what i've heard and seen. He deserves a right to reply.

Would  you be happy sticking with Lampard if you go down?
		
Click to expand...


lol they wanted to give it to Rooney and he didnt even want an interview, not hard to see why with how the fans reacted to Benitez and now the likelihood of Pereira

love to know what Everton fans think Lampard will bring to the table between now and May


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Oi stop it.

Rice wouldnt get in our midfield of  ox, milner and hendo😁😁
		
Click to expand...


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol they wanted to give it to Rooney and he didnt even want an interview, not hard to see why with how the fans reacted to Benitez and now the likelihood of Pereira

love to know what Everton fans think Lampard will bring to the table between now and May
		
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We got it on very good authority that Rooney was the no.1 target. The board unanimously agreed for him to be next manager. 

I'm not sure what has happened since like.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Infairness he's been belittled here locally from what i've heard and seen. He deserves a right to reply.

Would  you be happy sticking with Lampard if you go down?
		
Click to expand...

That’s why I’d of stuck with Ferguson for the rest of the Season, if he’d of kept us up and they don’t want him, they could be quietly looking in the background, but I’d imagine whoever they appt now will be on at least a 2yr appt and you’d think that question is the same for all 3.


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			We got it on very good authority that Rooney was the no.1 target. The board unanimously agreed for him to be next manager.

I'm not sure what has happened since like.
		
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he'd rather be at a championship club which may be wound up in 5 weeks 

rumours out that Lampard been offered it now


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s why I’d of stuck with Ferguson for the rest of the Season, if he’d of kept us up and they don’t want him, they could be quietly looking in the background, but I’d imagine whoever they appt now will be on at least a 2yr appt and you’d think that question is the same for all 3.
		
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pauldj42 said:



			That’s why I’d of stuck with Ferguson for the rest of the Season, if he’d of kept us up and they don’t want him, they could be quietly looking in the background, but I’d imagine whoever they appt now will be on at least a 2yr appt and you’d think that question is the same for all 3.
		
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What happens if he takes you down? 

It just shows how hard this football business is.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			We got it on very good authority that Rooney was the no.1 target. The board unanimously agreed for him to be next manager.

I'm not sure what has happened since like.
		
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Mate, you have to remember a lot of us are deluded about our were we should be competing etc, twitter/FBook etc has been an embarrassment lately.

I’m sure they think 1 appointment will suddenly turn us in a top 4 Club and we are years away from being anywhere near that.

Look at the mismanagement over the last few years and the amount of money wasted.

We need to stay up and hopefully start again, sadly that won’t be good enough for some.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			he'd rather be at a championship club which may be wound up in 5 weeks 

rumours out that Lampard been offered it now
		
Click to expand...

Ferguson or Lampard and Ferguson doesnt want it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			What happens if he takes you down?

It just shows how hard this football business is.
		
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Who? Ferguson or the new guy?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, you have to remember a lot of us are deluded about our were we should be competing etc, twitter/FBook etc has been an embarrassment lately.

I’m sure they think 1 appointment will suddenly turn us in a top 4 Club and we are years away from being anywhere near that.

Look at the mismanagement over the last few years and the amount of money wasted.

*We need to stay up and hopefully start again, sadly that won’t be good enough for some*.
		
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Problem is if you stay up its going to take time. Probably 5yrs of continuous investment,good management in the transfer market and a bit of luck.

I genuinely believe the fans expectations need to be lowered short term.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Who? Ferguson or the new guy?
		
Click to expand...

Ferguson


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol they wanted to give it to Rooney and he didnt even want an interview, not hard to see why with how the fans reacted to Benitez and now the likelihood of Pereira

love to know what Everton fans think Lampard will bring to the table between now and May
		
Click to expand...

Relegation hopefully 😂😂😂😂


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Relegation hopefully 😂😂😂😂
		
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5/1 a bet?

shame theres so many bad sides this year lol


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Problem is if you stay up its going to take time. Probably 5yrs of continuous investment,good management in the transfer market and a bit of luck.

I genuinely believe the fans expectations need to be lowered short term.
		
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Totally agree mate, fan base is also very toxic at the moment, whoever they choose will be unpopular with some.

If Ferguson had got it until end of season and we go down, they’ll blame Benitez and say nobody could of kept us up, just got to hope if they bring someone new in, we get the new manager “bounce” and at least stay up and start again next season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I genuinely believe he’d get more respect than the other idiot (pereira) and maybe we need a change from Big Duncs pure emotion.

A young British manager with nothing to lose suits me.
		
Click to expand...

What’s the issue with Pereira ?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			5/1 a bet?

shame theres so many bad sides this year lol
		
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Looking at their fixtures they've gotta play leicester twice, newcastle twice, watford away aswell as all the big boys. 

If they get 12points in the next 10 games they've done well. 

5/1 is a cracking bet


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s the issue with Pereira ?
		
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His CV isnt the greatest tbf.

Shouldve got Hodgson😂😂😂


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree mate, fan base is also very toxic at the moment, whoever they choose will be unpopular with some.

If Ferguson had got it until end of season and we go down, they’ll blame Benitez and say nobody could of kept us up, just got to hope if they bring someone new in, we get the new manager “bounce” and at least stay up and start again next season.
		
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Yeah and it has been for a long time.

They see everything through the prism of LFC.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Yup, hes top top top class for me, think hes a complete midfielder now too not just a defensive mid. Think there will be an auction for him in the summer tbh, dont think hes available this January, pretty sure theres not a side in the prem who wouldnt be better for having him, despite how Phil rates Fabinho lol
		
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Yep - don’t see him being better than Fabinho and I would also look at Bellingham if we were bringing someone in for the middle of the park


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Looking at their fixtures they've gotta play leicester twice, newcastle twice, watford away aswell as all the big boys.

If they get 12points in the next 10 games they've done well.

5/1 is a cracking bet
		
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12 points might be all they need to stay up over 18 games, real chance you dont need much over 30 points this year, hard to see any of the sides below them getting close to a point a game by end of the seaosn


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			12 points might be all they need to stay up over 18 games, real chance you dont need much over 30 points this year, hard to see any of the sides below them getting close to a point a game by end of the seaosn
		
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Do yer reckon?? 

I thought 38pts will be needed for safety.


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Do yer reckon??

I thought 38pts will be needed for safety.
		
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(games/pts)
Burnley 18/12
Watford 20/12
Newcastle 21/15
Norwich 22/16

for 2 of them to get to a point a game be a big achievement for me, Brentford currently 14th with a point a game!!!


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2022)

I haven't done research to back it up, but I reckon most relegation battled teams get more second half, once they start facing the teams coastimg to a safe mid table finish they get a little boost. 

I reckon bottom comfortably below 30. But reckon you're looking at 35/6 for safety.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			(games/pts)
Burnley 18/12
Watford 20/12
Newcastle 21/15
Norwich 22/16

for 2 of them to get to a point a game be a big achievement for me, Brentford currently 14th with a point a game!!!
		
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Burnley have 15 games in hand 😂😂


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## DanFST (Jan 28, 2022)

It's 44. 


We went down on 42, seared in every west ham fans brain.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 28, 2022)

DanFST said:



			It's 44.


We went down on 42, seared in every west ham fans brain.
		
Click to expand...

What a team aswell.. Carrick, Defoe, cole, kanoute .. Di Canio .. Sinclair , David James, glen Johnson towards the end .. even brought in Les Ferdinand and Lee bowyer 

Mental how they went down .. even did the double over chelsea


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Do yer reckon??

I thought 38pts will be needed for safety.
		
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I mean if you want a wager ill take 37 and under


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Burnley have 15 games in hand 😂😂
		
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yeah but theyve played us now, thy wont get away with that and a point against most sides


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 28, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I’d be happy with Lampard tbh, knows the PL, had Chelsea 4th when he was sacked, gave youth a chance because of the transfer ban and played a decent style of football.
		
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I’m amazed that another Prem team is going near him


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah and it has been for a long time.

They see everything through the prism of LFC.
		
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Everton need a new manager, but let’s bring your lot into it.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 29, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Everton need a new manager, but let’s bring your lot into it.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately its true,they're obsessed with us.  The demo outside Goodison the other night?  Protesting against the owners and they start singing about Liverpool🤷🤷


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## Stuart_C (Jan 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 40860


I’m amazed that another Prem team is going near him
		
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Their current PPG is 0.95, so on paper its an improvement.

Unfortunately football isnt played on paper😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Unfortunately its true,they're obsessed with us.  The demo outside Goodison the other night?  Protesting against the owners and they start singing about Liverpool🤷🤷
		
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Mate, its both sets and its always gone on, I even remember Emlyn Hughes singing “Liverpool are Magic, Everton are Tragic” at your FA Cup Parade on the steps of St George’s Hall back in 1974.

Christ, you even got Phil searching for images about Lampard!

Some fans obsess about their local rivals, we both have divvies.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 29, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Everton need a new manager, but let’s bring your lot into it.

Click to expand...

It always tickles me that we are so deeply ingrained into their heads 🤷‍♂️

On Lampard he either does well or it is the end of his managerial career at PL level. Football is brutal for young managers, fine for older ones who can fail over and over bizarrely. He doesn't have to win trophies with us, nice but at the current moment not crucial. He just has to steady the ship, get us playing attractive football, get us 6-8 in the table. Do that for 3 years and he can either start to move us forward, in the new stadium 👍, or move up the ladder, reputation restored. It's a win for all parties in their current circumstances.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It always tickles me that we are so deeply ingrained into their heads 🤷‍♂️

On Lampard he either does well or it is the end of his managerial career at PL level. Football is brutal for young managers, fine for older ones who can fail over and over bizarrely. He doesn't have to win trophies with us, nice but at the current moment not crucial. He just has to steady the ship, get us playing attractive football, get us 6-8 in the table. Do that for 3 years and he can either start to move us forward, in the new stadium 👍, or move up the ladder, reputation restored. It's a win for all parties in their current circumstances.
		
Click to expand...

Happy with avoiding relegation this season, regardless of who we’d put in charge.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



*It always tickles me that we are so deeply ingrained into their heads* 🤷‍♂️

On Lampard he either does well or it is the end of his managerial career at PL level. Football is brutal for young managers, fine for older ones who can fail over and over bizarrely. He doesn't have to win trophies with us, nice but at the current moment not crucial. He just has to steady the ship, get us playing attractive football, get us 6-8 in the table. Do that for 3 years and he can either start to move us forward, in the new stadium 👍, or move up the ladder, reputation restored. It's a win for all parties in their current circumstances.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
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Thanks for proving my point 😉😆


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## Stuart_C (Jan 29, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, its both sets and its always gone on, I even remember Emlyn Hughes singing “Liverpool are Magic, Everton are Tragic” at your FA Cup Parade on the steps of St George’s Hall back in 1974.

Christ, you even got Phil searching for images about Lampard!

*Some fans obsess about their local rivals,* we both have divvies.
		
Click to expand...

Emlyn had his faults but he was spot on with that 😂😂

Stop trolling phil, fraggers alarm will be goin off........ oh no wait thats allowed🤭🤭

So i was right 🤷🤷😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, its both sets and its always gone on, I even remember Emlyn Hughes singing “Liverpool are Magic, Everton are Tragic” at your FA Cup Parade on the steps of St George’s Hall back in 1974.

*Christ, you even got Phil searching for images about Lampard!*

Some fans obsess about their local rivals, we both have divvies.
		
Click to expand...

No searching required when your own fans are posting it on social media 

Reckon it’s worth a sweepstake to see how long it takes until the fans demand he is sacked 😂😂😂

At least he has done ok in the Championship


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No searching required when your own fans are posting it on social media

Reckon it’s worth a sweepstake to see how long it takes until the fans demand he is sacked 😂😂😂

At least he has done ok in the Championship
		
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After more than 12 months you have ignored my posts and not replied to any, this is now 3 in 12hrs, please go back to ignoring me or I will ask the mods to intervene as people replying to other posters, less than this, have been accused of trolling.


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## chrisd (Jan 29, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Happy with avoiding relegation this season, regardless of who we’d put in charge.

Click to expand...

Should have grabbed Roy before Watford 😁😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			After more than 12 months you have ignored my posts and not replied to any, this is now 3 in 12hrs, please go back to ignoring me or I will ask the mods to intervene as people replying to other posters, less than this, have been accused of trolling.
		
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😂😂😂 - is this a serious post 

Didn’t realise I was ignoring you , 🤷‍♂️

You mentioned me and I responded yet I’m trolling.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487034722333167616
Quite an eye opening thread.

The club do appear to have a lot of “partners” from the same Country , who also happen to own the club


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## Stuart_C (Jan 29, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Should have grabbed Roy before Watford 😁😁
		
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After 6months of Rafa di you not think they've suffered enough?? 

I wouldve enjoyed it though 😂😂


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## arnieboy (Jan 29, 2022)

Sunderland blowing automatic promotion yet again.....


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## Bazzatron (Jan 29, 2022)

Traore gone home to Barca. 
I know he'd usually put the ball on the ring road but for the few seconds when he got the ball and set off the whole stadium would lift, never seen anything like it. Gutted


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Traore gone home to Barca.
I know he'd usually put the ball on the ring road but for the few seconds when he got the ball and set off the whole stadium would lift, never seen anything like it. Gutted 

Click to expand...

So if Barcelona get Assombalonga they will have the same front three as Middlesbrough did in 18/19 Season ( courtesy of Twitter ) 😂

Traore was electric on the ball until that final pass or shot - used to scare the daylights out of fullbacks, it is a shame he has left the Prem


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## Bazzatron (Jan 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if Barcelona get Assombalonga they will have the same front three as Middlesbrough did in 18/19 Season ( courtesy of Twitter ) 😂

Traore was electric on the ball until that final pass or shot - used to scare the daylights out of fullbacks, it is a shame he has left the Prem
		
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Glad he's gone out the prem personally, if he gets the final ball sorted then he'll be even more frightening.


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## 4LEX (Jan 29, 2022)

Not sure Barca is the right move for him, plays much better in a counter attacking side. Maybe Xavi will try to mould him into a striker. He'd beast any centrebacks in La Liga.


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## fundy (Jan 29, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Glad he's gone out the prem personally, if he gets the final ball sorted then he'll be even more frightening.
		
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Real surprise tfr this for me, not sure I understand how it benefits any of the parties involved (apart from Wolves ensuring he hasnt gone to another prem club). Doesnt feel like hes what Barca need, doesnt feel like hes going to get more game time there to push on? Maybe theyre going to play him as a central striker and he'll start scoring for fun


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## Bazzatron (Jan 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Real surprise tfr this for me, not sure I understand how it benefits any of the parties involved (apart from Wolves ensuring he hasnt gone to another prem club). Doesnt feel like hes what Barca need, doesnt feel like hes going to get more game time there to push on? Maybe theyre going to play him as a central striker and he'll start scoring for fun
		
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Got one year left after this, 30m option to buy. I'm hoping that's a way of saying they have to buy him without actually saying it, if you see what I mean? His value will be bugger all if he comes back and only got 1 year left.


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## Bazzatron (Jan 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Not sure Barca is the right move for him, plays much better in a counter attacking side. Maybe Xavi will try to mould him into a striker. He'd beast any centrebacks in La Liga.
		
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I think he roasts a lot of their defenders and I'd expect their attackers to finish a bit better than we have. The season before Raul got his head injury they both worked really well.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Not sure Barca is the right move for him, plays much better in a counter attacking side. Maybe Xavi will try to mould him into a striker. He'd beast any centrebacks in La Liga.
		
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He has certainly bulked up since he last played for them


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂😂 - is this a serious post

Didn’t realise I was ignoring you , 🤷‍♂️

You mentioned me and I responded yet I’m trolling.
		
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Rent free.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 29, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Rent free. 

Click to expand...

You’re not even playing & you’re arguing the toss.
Put your phones down & spend some time with your families 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂


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## Wabinez (Jan 30, 2022)

Well, if it isn’t the end of Mason Greenwood’s career. It damn well should be.

utter bravery from his partner to post what she has.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

Wabinez said:



			Well, if it isn’t the end of Mason Greenwood’s career. It damn well should be.

utter bravery from his partner to post what she has.
		
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It’s shocking but not surprising when there are rumours about him

Also why has she got up social media first and not the police - they get him off the streets straight away


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## howbow88 (Jan 30, 2022)

Wabinez said:



			Well, if it isn’t the end of Mason Greenwood’s career. It damn well should be.

utter bravery from his partner to post what she has.
		
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It won't be. Some scummy club will sign him, cough Newcastle Brighton cough.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 30, 2022)

A good buy
Well done Jurgen


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 30, 2022)

Van De Beek to Everton on loan for the rest of the season.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60189985


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 30, 2022)

What an amazing young lady. Such strong words at an awful time for her.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487703288028012546
RIP Paul Parish


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s shocking but not surprising when there are rumours about him

*Also why has she got up social media first and not the police* - they get him off the streets straight away
		
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We'll never know and can only speculate but my thinking is the poor girl has seen previous victims in other cases being accused of telling lies, only doing it for money etc etc.

The way she has gone about this, there's no doubt, in my mind,  shes made it almost impossible  for any PR company to defend.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Van De Beek to Everton on loan for the rest of the season.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60189985

Click to expand...

That signing is a massive improvement on their 1st 11. 

It could just about keep them up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			We'll never know and can only speculate but my thinking is the poor girl has seen previous victims in other cases being accused of telling lies, only doing it for money etc etc.

The way she has gone about this, there's no doubt, in my mind,  shes made it almost impossible  for any PR company to defend.
		
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Other thing I was thinking was that she has maybe already gone to the police before and it’s been dismissed etc


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## Swango1980 (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Other thing I was thinking was that she has maybe already gone to the police before and it’s been dismissed etc
		
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Why would they dismiss it? If the people of social media are willing to have no doubt he is as guilty as sin, why would the police dismiss it with at least the same amount of evidence, on top of talking to her directly about it?


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

Rooneys Derby scored twice in the last few minutes to grab another point


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## arnieboy (Jan 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Rooneys Derby scored twice in the last few minutes to grab another point
		
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Amazing finish to the game, I wonder what VAR would have made of it all!


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

arnieboy said:



			Amazing finish to the game, I wonder what VAR would have made of it all!
		
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goal disallowed and Bielik sent off for dangerous play lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Why would they dismiss it? If the people of social media are willing to have no doubt he is as guilty as sin, why would the police dismiss it with at least the same amount of evidence, on top of talking to her directly about it?
		
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Who knows maybe she previously didn’t have that level of evidence

Either way for me whilst the pictures are awful - the recording leaves little doubt.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Who knows maybe she previously didn’t have that level of evidence*

Either way for me whilst the pictures are awful - the recording leaves little doubt.
		
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It's certainly a plausible reason.

I also wonder how many times its happened before without the recording.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s shocking but not surprising when there are rumours about him

Also why has she got up social media first and not the police - they get him off the streets straight away
		
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Funny I can’t remember you mentioning the rumours.

The evidence so far suggests he hasn’t got a leg to stand on and should be punished accordingly.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Other thing I was thinking was that she has maybe already gone to the police before and it’s been dismissed etc
		
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Do you think the police dismiss physical abuse?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It's certainly a plausible reason.

I also wonder how many times its happened before without the recording.
		
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Yep - I guess a lot of times young females are worried that they will be taken seriously when these accusations happen because of previous incidents where some have lied

And when it comes down to a he said she said incidents it must be very tough for the girl.

Very brave to step forward with the pictures and to risk taking a recording , can only imagine how he could have reacted if he knew he was being recorded.

Main stream news now going with it and he has been suspended by Utd


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



A good buy
Well done Jurgen

Click to expand...

Excellent signing 

Seems it was all negotiated by Ward - so the successor to Edwards has started on a good footing 

Also rumours of this guy

No idea if he is any good 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487789555566718986


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Excellent signing

Seems it was all negotiated by Ward - so the successor to Edwards has started on a good footing

Also rumours of this guy

No idea if he is any good


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487789555566718986

Click to expand...

Hes going to be very very good


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## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Do you think the police dismiss physical abuse?
		
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There was a story released a couple of weeks ago that abuse of women inc rape etc is at its highest ever in England and Wales. Partly due it being easier to report, woman in celebrity status reporting it which is encouraging women to come forward, etc. I don’t think the police would dismiss the physical abuse. But it is more common place than it should be.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Do you think the police dismiss physical abuse?
		
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I think they do without sufficient evidence.


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## Fade and Die (Jan 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			What an amazing young lady. Such strong words at an awful time for her.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487703288028012546
RIP Paul Parish
		
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Wow what an amazing thing to write, in as you say an awful time for her. I got a bit choked up reading it all. Brought back memories of when my dad collapsed on the concourse of the Chicken Run at Upton Park, everyone was so good, first aiders and other fan’s trying to help, he had to be taken in one of those reclining wheelchair things through the away end concourse to an ambulance by the main stand, people in there were so helpful, shouting to clear a way through etc. Fortunately our family had an happier ending than the poor fellow at Fulham but as his daughter said “_we are a football family. Rivalries don't matter when you are a human who is hurting & needs help_.”

Rip Paul Parish


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## pokerjoke (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I think they do without sufficient evidence.
		
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True
But Phils heard rumours apparently,but amazingly failed to mention it.
Women need to be heard 100% far too much abuse going on.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 30, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			There was a story released a couple of weeks ago that abuse of women inc rape etc is at its highest ever in England and Wales. Partly due it being easier to report, woman in celebrity status reporting it which is encouraging women to come forward, etc. I don’t think the police would dismiss the physical abuse. But it is more common place than it should be.
		
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Bout time
Did I read somewhere only about 1% of rape offences get a conviction?
That’s a shocking statistic


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hes going to be very very good
		
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Cheers

Apparently we have put in a £5mil bid - his contact ends in the summer


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cheers

Apparently we have put in a £5mil bid - his contact ends in the summer
		
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Been a lot of chatter as to where he was potentially going, looked like he was going to stay at Fulham until Liverpool got involved


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			True
But Phils heard rumours apparently,but amazingly failed to mention it.
Women need to be heard 100% far too much abuse going on.
		
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Imagine Phil posted rumours on here about Yerniteds Golden boy you'd be all over him😁😁

Abuse of all nature needs stopping but women need to be heard most definitely.

I say this a father of a beautiful young girl who is nearing the age where i cant protect her 24hrs a day. She'll be going to work in a few months time etc

We see and read of situations where women are attacked, they cant walk home of a night, they cant do this, that or the other.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Imagine Phil posted rumours on here about Yerniteds Golden boy you'd be all over him😁😁

Abuse of all nature needs stopping but women need to be heard most definitely.

I say this a father of a beautiful young girl who is nearing the age where i cant protect her 24hrs a day. She'll be going to work in a few months time etc

We see and read of situations where women are attacked, they cant walk home of a night, they cant do this, that or the other.
		
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Have you read what her father said? I hope he is in shock and releases he sounds a ...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Imagine Phil posted rumours on here about Yerniteds Golden boy you'd be all over him😁😁

Abuse of all nature needs stopping but women need to be heard most definitely.

I say this a father of a beautiful young girl who is nearing the age where i cant protect her 24hrs a day. She'll be going to work in a few months time etc

We see and read of situations where women are attacked, they cant walk home of a night, they cant do this, that or the other.
		
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my daughter is coming up to 5 and I’m already scared each day to make sure I protect her - the thought of someone abusing a girl in this manner just makes me feel sick 

Looks like Greenwood has been arrested now


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Have you read what her father said? I hope he is in shock and releases he sounds a ...
		
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I seen a clip of it, it doesn't read very well. Its like hes blamimg his own daughter.


That said I take whats in the mail with a pinch of salt.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 30, 2022)

"If Mason Greenwood is your opening offer, I return with Robinho.
His appeal against a 9 yr sentence in Italy for a gang rape is dismissed, but still he is a free man in Brazil, and unlikely to serve any time.
Is it any wonder the Brazil national manager says he's a "good man" when he himself has never served time for his sentence in taking part in a gang rape of a 13 yr old.
Robinho article "

Just in case it's been missed since this thread is now dealing with this subject....


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## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2022)

Obviously there’s further developments re Mr Greenwood as I type. But my lad has given me a quick lowdown on social media sites and things my phone can say, do and record. Suffice to say my understanding of technology. Let’s just say I am a dinosaur. However said technology does not paint Mr Greenwood in a very good light at all. He has shown me recordings etc. 
I honestly do not know where to start. My last post on this subject til his court case. ☹️


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## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			"If Mason Greenwood is your opening offer, I return with Robinho.
His appeal against a 9 yr sentence in Italy for a gang rape is dismissed, but still he is a free man in Brazil, and unlikely to serve any time.
Is it any wonder the Brazil national manager says he's a "good man" when he himself has never served time for his sentence in taking part in a gang rape of a 13 yr old.
Robinho article "

Just in case it's been missed since this thread is now dealing with this subject....
		
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i followed his story, it sickens me to know he wore our shirt. And is still revered by some.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Imagine Phil posted rumours on here about Yerniteds Golden boy you'd be all over him😁😁

Abuse of all nature needs stopping but women need to be heard most definitely.

I say this a father of a beautiful young girl who is nearing the age where i cant protect her 24hrs a day. She'll be going to work in a few months time etc

We see and read of situations where women are attacked, they cant walk home of a night, they cant do this, that or the other.
		
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I couldn’t care less who it is I would be the same.
You can’t say there are rumours and not back it up.
Anyway same as Tash I’m out until it’s finished with.
If found guilty hopefully his sentence will fit the crime.


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## Dando (Jan 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Have you read what her father said? I hope he is in shock and releases he sounds a ...
		
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Just read his comments - very very weird


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 30, 2022)

Seen people on Twitter questioning why she recorded it and did just leave him.
Maybe she’d finally had enough & wanted to nail the scumbag.
Hope they throw the key away.
And as for her dads comments 🤯


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 30, 2022)

Good buy by Liverpool on paper as of course its subject to how he settles in the PL. Wonder why such a long contract (5 1/2 years) as he's already 25. Seems a very long deal


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 30, 2022)

Boom 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60192650

Welcome Frankie boy, the next chapter in the dream begins.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

Time to prepare


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

they not just tippex out the previous manager , or is that just a Watford thing


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## Jensen (Jan 30, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Boom 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60192650

Welcome Frankie boy, the next chapter in the dream begins.

Click to expand...

Sorry Paul, I don’t agree. He has no pedigree and was useless at Chelski.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			they not just tippex out the previous manager , or is that just a Watford thing 

Click to expand...

After their recent demonstrations (aka kopite behaviour) against the board, they want to look a bit more professional.

RIP The Bed Sheets


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## Jimaroid (Jan 30, 2022)

Some talk of another signing he’s bringing. Rumours that it’s maybe Gueye coming back? 

I always liked Gueye so if that turns out true I’ll cut Frank a little slack. 😀


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Some talk of another signing he’s bringing. Rumours that it’s maybe Gueye coming back?

I always liked Gueye so if that turns out true I’ll cut Frank a little slack. 😀
		
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Mad isnt it, 6 months ago there was no money and rafa had to settle with 2 free transfers and £1.7m Gray. 

They must've found the Tories money tree 😁


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mad isnt it, 6 months ago there was no money and rafa had to settle with 2 free transfers and £1.7m Gray.

They must've found the Tories money tree 😁
		
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If thats a case Ill send the Arsenal board a message, Everton the only club we ever "win" negotiations with


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mad isnt it, 6 months ago there was no money and rafa had to settle with 2 free transfers and £1.7m Gray.

They must've found the Tories money tree 😁
		
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Maybe Lampard has asked for some money from his uncles dog 🤷‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

I had a  thought a few weeks ago and it might sound mad but its like Moshiri has hired Rafa and instructed him to do a full restructure as say a blue chip company would.

Now hear me out before you think i'm on the ale😁

Knowing how thick skinned and stubborn Rafa is, he'll take all the flak thrown at him.

Its as if Moshiri wanted rid of Brands etc and hes given Rafa the "Power" to do so.

He does all his dirty work for him and hoped he'd get decent results and steady the ship. Its a win win for Moshiri. Gets rid of people he doesnt want and if the results are poor he sacks rafa. If the team does well then great.

Rafa toddles off with £7m in  his ass pocket and now Moshiri has a blank canvas to start again.

No one in the right mind gives a manager as much power as he did with Rafa. 

I dont think Moshiri is that stupid. 

Thoughts?


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I had a  thought a few weeks ago and it might sound mad but its like Moshiri has hired Rafa and instructed him to do a full restructure as say a blue chip company would.

Now hear me out before you think i'm on the ale😁

Knowing how thick skinned and stubborn Rafa is, he'll take all the flak thrown at him.

Its as if Moshiri wanted rid of Brands etc and hes given Rafa the "Power" to do so.

He does all his dirty work for him and hoped he'd get decent results and steady the ship. Its a win win for Moshiri. Gets rid of people he doesnt want and if the results are poor he sacks rafa. If the team does well then great.

Rafa toddles off with £7m in  his ass pocket and now Moshiri has a blank canvas to start again.

No one in the right mind gives a manager as much power as he did with Rafa.

I dont think Moshiri is that stupid.

Thoughts?
		
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Moretti or Estrella


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Moretti or Estrella

Click to expand...

None🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

Im trying to understand  why Benitez.


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			None🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

Im trying to understand  why Benitez.
		
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decent enough manager that was available, never given a chance to succeed?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			decent enough manager that was available, never given a chance to succeed?
		
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Did you miss the bed sheets outside his house and the twitteratti  fume?

The appointment was doomed feom the outset.

In preseason the fans were singing fat spanish waiter to him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			None🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

Im trying to understand  why Benitez.
		
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Lack of other options around ? 

Guess Moshiri doesn’t care about fans feeling etc

it seems to be puzzling decision after puzzling decision 

is he a rich man playing football manager ? 

Some of the signings have been beyond head scratching, manager appointments confusing. Brands was either awful or just a lame duck - some of the money spent on players like Iwobi , Kean etc - £300mil spent - how many decent ? Prob Dacoure and Allan ?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lack of other options around ?

Guess Moshiri doesn’t care about fans feeling etc

it seems to be puzzling decision after puzzling decision

is he a rich man playing football manager ?

Some of the signings have been beyond head scratching, manager appointments confusing. Brands was either awful or just a lame duck - some of the money spent on players like Iwobi , Kean etc - £300mil spent - how many decent ? Prob Dacoure and Allan ?
		
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I dont believe Rafa was the best option. Not having it.

Maybe he doesnt or he's used Rafa as per my thoughts.

Either  football manager or money laundering.

Alledgdly Iwobi was HIS signing alone.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont believe Rafa was the best option. Not having it.

Maybe he doesnt or he's used Rafa as per my thoughts.

Either  football manager or money laundering.

Alledgdly Iwobi was HIS signing alone.
		
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Not sure who would be a better option last summer ?

If you take his record in the Prem in isolation then it’s very good - the issue was the link


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 30, 2022)

Perhaps he is another owner who sees the club as a toy? Rafa was clearly his choice, against all advice. Rafa tells Moshiri that he wants total control and he backs him. Things then go wrong, Moshiri panics at the fan kickback and gets rid. His money, his club. 

If Moshiri wanted rid of Brands then why not just do it? Pay off is the same, he clearly isn't afraid to sack. No conspiracy, just an owner used to getting his own way, not listening to advice, getting involved when he shouldn't.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 30, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Sorry Paul, I don’t agree. He has no pedigree and was useless at Chelski.
		
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What part of the winking emoji did you miss?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Perhaps he is another owner who sees the club as a toy? Rafa was clearly his choice, against all advice. Rafa tells Moshiri that he wants total control and he backs him. Things then go wrong, Moshiri panics at the fan kickback and gets rid. His money, his club.

If Moshiri wanted rid of Brands then why not just do it? Pay off is the same, he clearly isn't afraid to sack. No conspiracy, just an owner used to getting his own way, not listening to advice, getting involved when he shouldn't.
		
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My line of thinking was these big companies who hire people to do the hiring and firing.

Rafa was Moshiri's choice and the board all voted against it. They didnt want him.  They knew the fans and the liverpool link was too strong for the fans to accept it.

Maybe i'm over-thinking it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			My line of thinking was these big companies who hire people to do the hiring and firing.

Rafa was Moshiri's choice and the board all voted against it. They didnt want him.  They knew the fans and the liverpool link was too strong for the fans to accept it.

Maybe i'm over-thinking it.
		
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I wish it was that complicated as that would indicate a plan. Sadly, I think it is much simpler than that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Did you miss the bed sheets outside his house and the twitteratti  fume?

The appointment was doomed feom the outset.

In preseason the fans were singing fat spanish waiter to him.
		
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Some were to be fair Stu, the majority weren’t, let’s be honest here, you still have divvies who’ve wanted Klopp out!

Fans will get behind any manager who brings effort and decent results, but some of Benitez’s decisions were baffling, fell out with James and Digne, then puts Digne on the bench and plays Coleman at LB. Brought Rondon in on a free, who hadn’t played since March and plays him up front instead given the kids a chance, he was/is shocking!

One of Benitez’s strengths was his defensive tactics, yet at the end we’d got 6 points out of 39, worst run in the PL.

I’d of loved him to of been a success, but I genuinely thought we’d be relegated if he’d of stayed, at least now we have a chance.

Unless Moshiri wants us to be relegated then I don’t understand anyone saying Benitez wasn’t given a chance.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 30, 2022)

Sunderland have sacked their manager after losing 6-0 yesterday! 
Rumours up here they’ve approached Duncan Ferguson


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			My line of thinking was these big companies who hire people to do the hiring and firing.

Rafa was Moshiri's choice and the board all voted against it. They didnt want him.  They knew the fans and the liverpool link was too strong for the fans to accept it.

Maybe i'm over-thinking it.
		
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Definitely overthinking it mate 

It’s a case of someone with lots of money just doing what he wants - Everton are his toy to just throw money at . The key appointment ( same with Man Utd ) - is also the DoF - someone to stop the ridiculous overpriced signings


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Some were to be fair Stu, the majority weren’t, let’s be honest here, you still have divvies who’ve wanted Klopp out!

Fans will get behind any manager who brings effort and decent results, but some of Benitez’s decisions were baffling, fell out with James and Digne, then puts Digne on the bench and plays Coleman at LB. Brought Rondon in on a free, who hadn’t played since March and plays him up front instead given the kids a chance, he was/is shocking!

One of Benitez’s strengths was his defensive tactics, yet at the end we’d got 6 points out of 39, worst run in the PL.

I’d of loved him to of been a success, but I genuinely thought we’d be relegated if he’d of stayed, at least now we have a chance.

Unless Moshiri wants us to be relegated then I don’t understand anyone saying Benitez wasn’t given a chance.
		
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I genuinely wasnt having a dig there. I meant before he signed.

Again i think moshiri wanted James off the wage bill. 

Digne - again i dont understand how an owner would allow  decisions of that magnitude to be made unless he was happy for it to happen. 

By that time the decision was made,  Benitez was already in the coffin.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Definitely overthinking it* mate

It’s a case of someone with lots of money just doing what he wants - Everton are his toy to just throw money at . The key appointment ( same with Man Utd ) - is also the DoF - someone to stop the ridiculous overpriced signings
		
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Boooooooooooooooooo


I had fun thinking about it😁


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Boooooooooooooooooo


I had fun thinking about it😁
		
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as long as youre happy Stu


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## Jimaroid (Jan 30, 2022)

There isn’t any sense or strategy. That’s been the problem under Moshiri from the beginning. We got in bed with a rich idiot and that’s been that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I genuinely wasnt having a dig there. I meant before he signed.

Again i think moshiri wanted James off the wage bill.

Digne - again i dont understand how an owner would allow  decisions of that magnitude to be made unless he was happy for it to happen.

By that time the decision was made,  Benitez was already in the coffin.
		
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If Ancelotti hadn’t walked Moshiri wouldn’t of been getting rid of James or Digne, so I don’t think that was his doing.

Digne went before we lost to Norwich, if we’d of beat Norwich we’d of been 10 points off the relegation places, probably thought beating them and 10 points would of had us relatively safe and Benitez wouldn’t of been sacked, losing to them meaning we had 6 points out of 39 and suddenly we are 4 points off 3rd from bottom.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			as long as youre happy Stu 

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I'm always happy steve, life's not about unhappiness or bitterness😉


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			If Ancelotti hadn’t walked Moshiri wouldn’t of been getting rid of James or Digne, so I don’t think that was his doing.

Digne went before we lost to Norwich, if we’d of beat Norwich we’d of been 10 points off the relegation places, probably thought beating them and 10 points would of had us relatively safe and Benitez wouldn’t of been sacked, losing to them meaning we had 6 points out of 39 and suddenly we are 4 points off 3rd from bottom.
		
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Ancellotti was lucky there was no fans in the ground last season......

James wasnt what Everton needed. 

Fur coat, no knickers type


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I genuinely wasnt having a dig there. I meant before he signed.

Again i think moshiri wanted James off the wage bill.

Digne - again i dont understand how an owner would allow  decisions of that magnitude to be made unless he was happy for it to happen.

By that time the decision was made,  Benitez was already in the coffin.
		
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A local blue said to me that from what he had heard Benitez had been given more power than any recent manager by far to look at the playing, coaching, medical, scouting side from top to bottom and implement changes. Maybe you're right.


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			A local blue said to me that from what he had heard Benitez had been given more power than any recent manager by far to look at the playing, coaching, medical, scouting side from top to bottom and implement changes. Maybe you're right.
		
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dont encourage him Liver


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			A local blue said to me that from what he had heard Benitez had been given more power than any recent manager by far to look at the playing, coaching, medical, scouting side from top to bottom and implement changes. *Maybe you're right*.
		
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I always am Pierre🤷‍♂️


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I always am Pierre🤷‍♂️
		
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If you think of the changes they allowed Benitez to make in 6 months:

Got rid of Everton’s Director of Medical, Head of Recruitment, Manager of Scouting, Director of Football and Lucas Digne, James & Bernard.

Thankfully brought Gray and even Townsend in, so definitely think Moshiri was looking at him for a lot longer period.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			If you think of the changes they allowed Benitez to make in 6 months:

Got rid of Everton’s Director of Medical, Head of Recruitment, Manager of Scouting, Director of Football and Lucas Digne, James & Bernard.

Thankfully brought Gray and even Townsend in, so definitely think Moshiri was looking at him for a lot longer period.
		
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Out of all of the clubs in european football in recent history, how many owners/boards have given a manager such amount of power and £1.7m?

Its unheard of. Im sticking with my theory that Moshiri used Rafa to get rid of the existing set up and  hoped everton would be mid table 7-12th by now.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Out of all of the clubs in european football in recent history, how many owners/boards have given a manager such amount of power and £1.7m?

Its unheard of. Im sticking with my theory that Moshiri used Rafa to get rid of the existing set up and  hoped everton would be mid table 7-12th by now.
		
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Apparently the ffp had come home to roost and Benitez would of had a little bit now and more in the summer.

I totally agree he was hoping for mid-table, so was I


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I always am Pierre🤷‍♂️
		
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I'm glad that my teachings have worked on you over 10 years.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



*Apparently the ffp had come home to roost *and Benitez would of had a little bit now and more in the summer.

I totally agree he was hoping for mid-table, so was I

Click to expand...

Now we're getting to it😉

Its conceivable that James' contract was high therefore classed as a luxury they could do without. Cost cutting, Restructure?

Selling Digne signing 3 players with the dosh?

Its all falling into place. *taps temple amd walks away whistling.....


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm glad that my teachings have worked on you over 10 years. 

Click to expand...

And all those years you thought i wasnt listening....... mr miyagi🙏


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			dont encourage him Liver 

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confirmed sigh


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Now we're getting to it😉

Its conceivable that James' contract was high therefore classed as a luxury they could do without. Cost cutting, Restructure?

Selling Digne signing 3 players with the dosh?

Its all falling into place. *taps temple amd walks away whistling.....
		
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With hindsight you are seeing that, but I genuinely didn’t expect Benitez to fall out with players before the season even started, there was no way Ancelotti was cost cutting, restructuring etc, so Moshiri must of changed plans when he changed manager.

Anyway, Big Frank’s here now and the future is bright.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 30, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			With hindsight you are seeing that, but I genuinely didn’t expect Benitez to fall out with players before the season even started, there was no way Ancelotti was cost cutting, restructuring etc, so Moshiri must of changed plans when he changed manager.

Anyway, Big Frank’s here now and the future is bright.

Click to expand...

I've been sat on this weeks. Its akin to the Allegra Stratton scoop🤣🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Sunderland have sacked their manager after losing 6-0 yesterday!
Rumours up here they’ve approached Duncan Ferguson

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Being in seaham you will know more Mackems than me. I know they have had a little wobble but this seems a little knee jerk. What are their thoughts? Sunderland are going through more managers than we are 😲. I thought Johnson had stabilised the club and was doing a solid job but I'm not watching them play.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Being in seaham you will know more Mackems than me. I know they have had a little wobble but this seems a little knee jerk. What are their thoughts? Sunderland are going through more managers than we are 😲. I thought Johnson had stabilised the club and was doing a solid job but I'm not watching them play.
		
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It’s the same old story, 2 steps forward, 1 step back, battered 6-0 but had more possession etc and then Johnson blamed covid jab for players missing games.
Never his fault etc.
Got them playing great football, battering teams, then results like saturday.


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## 3offTheTee (Jan 31, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s the same old story, 2 steps forward, 1 step back, battered 6-0 but had more possession etc and then Johnson blamed covid jab for players missing games.
Never his fault etc.
Got them playing great football, battering teams, then results like saturday.
		
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3rd in the table. Unlikely to gain automatic promotion but play off place almost guaranteed. 30000 gates and fantastic fans. Unbelievable decision


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			3rd in the table. Unlikely to gain automatic promotion but play off place almost guaranteed. 30000 gates and fantastic fans. Unbelievable decision

Click to expand...

Talking to the lads yesterday, including 1 who was at Bolton, they were very much split on Johnson before the sacking, the way they’ve played at times they feel they should be well clear at the top and it’s his fault they aren’t.🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			3rd in the table. Unlikely to gain automatic promotion but play off place almost guaranteed. 30000 gates and fantastic fans. Unbelievable decision

Click to expand...

That’s the state of football these days - managers don’t get much time , only takes c couple of defeats in a short period and the fans are demanding a change , I’m not sure when it started with managers being sacked so often but some clubs will never get stable with demands to sack the manager anytime there is a sticky patch 

Sacking a manager because they are only third is a joke - looking at his record it’s very good at Sunderland and won them a trophy last year. 

A revolving door of managers very rarely provides success - Chelsea are the only club who get some sort of success


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## theoneandonly (Jan 31, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s the state of football these days - managers don’t get much time , only takes c couple of defeats in a short period and the fans are demanding a change , I’m not sure when it started with managers being sacked so often but some clubs will never get stable with demands to sack the manager anytime there is a sticky patch

Sacking a manager because they are only third is a joke - looking at his record it’s very good at Sunderland and won them a trophy last year.

A revolving door of managers very rarely provides success - *Chelsea are the only club who get some sort of* *success*

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Such high praise for the most successful club of the last 20 years 🤣😂😅


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## JamesR (Jan 31, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Such high praise for the most successful club of the last 20 years 🤣😂😅
		
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not wrong though, is it


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## theoneandonly (Jan 31, 2022)

JamesR said:



			not wrong though, is it
		
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No it's not. Chelsea's revolving door manager policy has produced huge success.


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## Jimaroid (Jan 31, 2022)

Finally announced and confirmed… that our media team are slower than Rondon. 😀


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1488142522928959490


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Finally announced and confirmed… that our media team are slower than Rondon. 😀


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1488142522928959490

Click to expand...

Hey, it probably took 2 days to film all the different angles, add filters etc. Definitely mean and moody .

Is anyone slower than Rondon? Not sure that is possible.

7 hours to get signings in Frank, get to work.


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## Foxholer (Jan 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			...
Is anyone slower than Rondon? Not sure that is possible.
...
		
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Seems to be doing well enough for his country - at least in 1 game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Seems to be doing well enough for his country - at least in 1 game.
		
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The defence must have been something to behold then


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## Foxholer (Jan 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The defence must have been something to behold then 

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International Football seems to be played at a much more measured pace than Prem League - at least to me.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			International Football seems to be played at a much more measured pace than Prem League - at least to me.
		
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I think he would be ideal in walking football .

To be fair, his touch and hold up play is excellent but at this point in his career the PL is simply too fast for him. Hopefully we can move him on in the summer to a league better suited. I can't see him getting much game time under Super Frankie


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			International Football seems to be played at a much more measured pace than Prem League - at least to me.
		
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I do think 'international quality' is a myth personally. Scoring in the Premier League is definitely harder than scoring against, Bolivia, Trinidad, Panama, etc. Not to say Rondon himself hasn't been a decent player at times in his career, but possibly a bit past it now for the top flight. Seems to have done his best work over the years in Russia and China rather than anywhere decent.


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## GB72 (Jan 31, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s the state of football these days - managers don’t get much time , only takes c couple of defeats in a short period and the fans are demanding a change , I’m not sure when it started with managers being sacked so often but some clubs will never get stable with demands to sack the manager anytime there is a sticky patch

Sacking a manager because they are only third is a joke - looking at his record it’s very good at Sunderland and won them a trophy last year.

A revolving door of managers very rarely provides success - Chelsea are the only club who get some sort of success
		
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Perhaps it is time that managers were included in the transfer windows.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 31, 2022)

Still happy with our window

Great overall and more to come in summer


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Perhaps it is time that managers were included in the transfer windows.
		
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Sounds fine unless your team lose the first 10 games of the season 5-0. I know that is extreme but you get the point. If it isn't working, why continue with the same manager who is unable to resolve the problem?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 31, 2022)

No signings for United, but I predict the second half of the season will see many more opportunities for Sancho to play on the right.


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sounds fine unless your team lose the first 10 games of the season 5-0. I know that is extreme but you get the point. If it isn't working, why continue with the same manager who is unable to resolve the problem?
		
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It wouldn't work anyway. Clubs can still sign free agents outside of the windows, ergo, they'd be able to appoint any manager who was unemployed anyway.


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			No signings for United, but I predict the second half of the season will see many more opportunities for Sancho to play on the right.
		
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Newcastle are trying hard to poach him away I heard.


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## GB72 (Jan 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sounds fine unless your team lose the first 10 games of the season 5-0. I know that is extreme but you get the point. If it isn't working, why continue with the same manager who is unable to resolve the problem?
		
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I guess the same way you have to continue with the same players who are losing 5-0 every week. Would at least mean greater consequence for a poor managerial appointment


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## GB72 (Jan 31, 2022)

So am I reading the reports right, Aubameyang has just pitched up in Barcelona looking to have a medical before any sort of loan deal has actually been agreed with Arsenal.


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2022)

GB72 said:



			So am I reading the reports right, Aubameyang has just pitched up in Barcelona looking to have a medical before any sort of loan deal has actually been agreed with Arsenal.
		
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He's done an Odemwingie, only over a much greater distance.


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2022)

GB72 said:



			So am I reading the reports right, Aubameyang has just pitched up in Barcelona looking to have a medical before any sort of loan deal has actually been agreed with Arsenal.
		
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already fallen thru it seems, clubs cant agree on his salary


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## GB72 (Jan 31, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He's done an Odemwingie, only over a much greater distance. 

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That is what I was thinking and it looks like he will be on the flight of shame back home soon as Barca don't fancy his wages.


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2022)

Dele Alli is Everton-bound. I think he needs a decent haircut before he'll start playing well again. It genuinely can't help having massive dreadlocks flopping around your face can it? Anyway, it's a shame he didn't kick on after such a good start with us, but it'll be interesting to see how he does next.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 31, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Dele Alli is Everton-bound. I think he needs a decent haircut before he'll start playing well again. It genuinely can't help having massive dreadlocks flopping around your face can it? Anyway, it's a shame he didn't kick on after such a good start with us, but it'll be interesting to see how he does next.
		
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I dont think hair makes a difference! Just ask Fellaini


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont think hair makes a difference! Just ask Fellaini
		
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At least his hair kind of sat neatly in place. All I know is, Dele hasn't been good since he had a short back and sides. The facts speak for themselves!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Dele Alli is Everton-bound. I think he needs a decent haircut before he'll start playing well again. It genuinely can't help having massive dreadlocks flopping around your face can it? Anyway, it's a shame he didn't kick on after such a good start with us, but it'll be interesting to see how he does next.
		
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Only if you sell him to us. We are maxed out on UK loans. How is Mr Levy feeling right out? Keen to sell or off to nail another hard deal. If it's the latter I suspect he will stay with you until June.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Dele Alli is Everton-bound. I think he needs a decent haircut before he'll start playing well again. It genuinely can't help having massive dreadlocks flopping around your face can it? Anyway, it's a shame he didn't kick on after such a good start with us, but it'll be interesting to see how he does next.
		
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Maybe he thinks he'll lose his strength if he cuts his locks, A bit like Samson.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I guess the same way you have to continue with the same players who are losing 5-0 every week. Would at least mean greater consequence for a poor managerial appointment
		
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You can shove a player on the bench if they are out of form, in the reserves, loan them out. You can't really do that with a manager. Sometimes it is a wrong appointment, sometimes it is just a bad fit, sometimes they are just not up to it or circumstances change. It is not always the fault of the club. Hell, managers don't mind. Have you seen the pay offs they get? No tears for managers.


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Only if you sell him to us. We are maxed out on UK loans. How is Mr Levy feeling right out? Keen to sell or off to nail another hard deal. If it's the latter I suspect he will stay with you until June.
		
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Permanent deal, on the verge of being done apparently. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1488170670953541633


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## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Dele Alli is Everton-bound. I think he needs a decent haircut before he'll start playing well again. It genuinely can't help having massive dreadlocks flopping around your face can it? Anyway, it's a shame he didn't kick on after such a good start with us, but it'll be interesting to see how he does next.
		
Click to expand...

When he broke through and was at his best for us he looked like he was going to have a great career ahead of him, but when he started to have business distractions outside football his form gradually declined which I think might have been the catalyst for him. I don’t think he has the determination to put the work in to be top player again. 

It’s a shame as I don’t doubt he had the ability to play at the top level but he never fulfilled his potential.


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			When he broke through and was at his best for us he looked like he was going to have a great career ahead of him, but when he started to have business distractions outside football his form gradually declined which I think might have been the catalyst for him. I don’t think he has the determination to put the work in to be top player again.

It’s a shame as I don’t doubt he had the ability to play at the top level but he never fulfilled his potential.
		
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Yeah, it was strange, as if he made it too quickly and easily and lost all the hunger and drive that got him there to begin with.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 31, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



*When he broke through and was at his best for us he looked like he was going to have a great career ahead of him, but when he started to have business distractions outside football his form gradually declined* which I think might have been the catalyst for him. I don’t think he has the determination to put the work in to be top player again.

It’s a shame as I don’t doubt he had the ability to play at the top level but he never fulfilled his potential.
		
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Does seem to happen in the modern game. Some step up to the hype, others fall away. 

Rashford IMO has never delivered on his promise. Not forgetting the british transfer record holder too..... 

Tammy Abraham struggled to get a game in England but seems to be flourishing in Italy, Id like to see more players take that risk! Can only be good for our national team.


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## Slime (Jan 31, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Maybe he thinks he'll lose his strength if he cuts his locks, *A bit like Samson*.
		
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Kenny?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Permanent deal, on the verge of being done apparently.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1488170670953541633

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Where's Paddyk when we need him 😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			When he broke through and was at his best for us he looked like he was going to have a great career ahead of him, but when he started to have business distractions outside football his form gradually declined which I think might have been the catalyst for him. I don’t think he has the determination to put the work in to be top player again.

It’s a shame as I don’t doubt he had the ability to play at the top level but he never fulfilled his potential.
		
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Hopefully a move away from London will remove some of the distractions and get his head right again, wake up the hunger. Another move within London probably wouldn't change anything but a bigger move, in terms of distance 😉, may do the trick. Hopefully so, the old Alli is a player well worth having.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Finally announced and confirmed… that our media team are slower than Rondon. 😀


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1488142522928959490

Click to expand...

Is top 4 still mathematically possible this season? Asking for a friend😇


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## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2022)

I wonder if the Ev have had a provi loan😁😁


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## Hobbit (Jan 31, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Is top 4 still mathematically possible this season? Asking for a friend😇
		
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Yeah, Liverpool will be vacating one of the spots.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2022)




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## Jimaroid (Jan 31, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Is top 4 still mathematically possible this season? Asking for a friend😇
		
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Maybe if Lampard puts his boots on?

I'm not sure about Dele Alli, seems too much like another underperforming player who's found the gaze of Moshiri to me. But maybe as a free transfer we're seeing some sense and Lampard can help him develop again.

Dare I say it but there's a glimmer of hope here. It's still a huge gamble, and I'm really concerned Lampard doesn't have the mettle for sorting out the bigger issues, but I do feel slightly better that he's brought enough with him in the staff to keep us up.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Maybe if Lampard puts his boots on?

I'm not sure about Dele Alli, seems too much like another underperforming player who's found the gaze of Moshiri to me. But maybe as a free transfer we're seeing some sense and Lampard can help him develop again.

Dare I say it but there's a glimmer of hope here. It's still a huge gamble, and I'm really concerned Lampard doesn't have the mettle for sorting out the bigger issues, but I do feel slightly better that he's brought enough with him in the staff to keep us up.
		
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You never know, it could be Lampard who’s mentioned Alli, he certainly wouldn’t of been on Benitez’s radar imo.😬

In all seriousness, he’s the manager now, so like Benitez I’ll give him my full support and judge him on results.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2022)

Donny joins Frankie, just waiting for Dele!


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 31, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			No it's not. Chelsea's revolving door manager policy has produced huge success.
		
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Not in and of it's own though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2022)

Looks like Mbappe is close to confirming he is going to Madrid - just the cool £800k a week


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 31, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Perhaps it is time that managers were included in the transfer windows.
		
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Some clubs need bi-fold doors rather than transfer windows.


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## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			You never know, it could be Lampard who’s mentioned Alli, he certainly wouldn’t of been on Benitez’s radar imo.😬

In all seriousness, he’s the manager now, so like Benitez I’ll give him my full support and judge him on results.

Click to expand...

Apparently it was Lampard who said he wanted Dele, plus the fee is not particularly high at all. I heard only £10m with add ons or something! That's nothing nowadays, I'm not sure what's gone on there if that's true.
Edit: just doubled check and it's even more silly, it's actually no money up front, then 10m after 20 appearances, then possibly up to 30m with further add ons. All to do with your FFP situation I'd imagine. You can put it down in the books as a free transfer for this season.


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently it was Lampard who said he wanted Dele, plus the fee is not particularly high at all. I heard only £10m with add ons or something! That's nothing nowadays, I'm not sure what's gone on there if that's true.
Edit: just doubled check and it's even more silly, it's actually no money up front, then 10m after 20 appearances, then possibly up to 30m with further add ons. All to do with your FFP situation I'd imagine. You can put it down in the books as a free transfer for this season.
		
Click to expand...


Newcastle probably offering to pay more money to take him on loan lol


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently it was Lampard who said he wanted Dele, plus the fee is not particularly high at all. I heard only £10m with add ons or something! That's nothing nowadays, I'm not sure what's gone on there if that's true.
Edit: just doubled check and it's even more silly, it's actually no money up front, then 10m after 20 appearances, then possibly up to 30m with further add ons. All to do with your FFP situation I'd imagine. You can put it down in the books as a free transfer for this season.
		
Click to expand...

Sky just said the figure could rise to 40 Mil if successful, that means you’ll only ever get 10m


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## Jimaroid (Jan 31, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			In all seriousness, he’s the manager now, so like Benitez I’ll give him my full support and judge him on results.

Click to expand...

Yeah he’s got my support too of course. 

Looking forward to the next games instead of dreading them at the moment. It’s a feeling I’ve not had for a while. 😂


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2022)

Athletic now reporting a 6 mth loan with a 1 year optional additional loan been agreed for Aubameyang to Barca

How are they affording his wages (or are we still paying them?) or is Dembele coming the other way or going somewhere else?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			Athletic now reporting a 6 mth loan with a 1 year optional additional loan been agreed for Aubameyang to Barca

How are they affording his wages (or are we still paying them?) or is Dembele coming the other way or going somewhere else?
		
Click to expand...

Dembele off to PSG apparently


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dembele off to PSG apparently
		
Click to expand...

thought PSG had said no, would make sense tho


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## Slime (Jan 31, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Some clubs need bi-fold doors rather than transfer windows.
		
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United need a door that opens inwards as well as outwards!


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2022)

Slime said:



			United need a door that opens inwards as well as outwards!
		
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Pogba be back soon, be like a new signing


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Yeah he’s got my support too of course.

Looking forward to the next games instead of dreading them at the moment. It’s a feeling I’ve not had for a while. 😂
		
Click to expand...

I've got tickets for the Toon game next Tuesday. Both sets of fans will be buzzing with the windows they've both had. I'm certainly feeling happier about the game than I was.

The Delle signing is a no lose situation based on the supposed payment structure. If he works I don't mind the cost. If he doesn't we aren't weighed down by him. Hopefully Frank wanting him can inspire him.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 31, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dembele off to PSG apparently
		
Click to expand...

Saw on Twitter earlier that PSG will have Neymar, plus Dembele who Barca bought to replace Neymar, plus Messi who Barca couldn't afford to keep because they'd spent so much money trying to replace Neymar. 

How on earth do you get Neymar, Dembele, Messi, Mbappe, Di Maria and Icardi into a team? And that's before you look at players like Wijnaldum, Paredes, Verrati, Herrera, Gueye.


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			Athletic now reporting a 6 mth loan with a 1 year optional additional loan been agreed for Aubameyang to Barca

How are they affording his wages (or are we still paying them?) or is Dembele coming the other way or going somewhere else?
		
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now talking about it being a free tfr

cant wait to see him start scoring goals for fun again for someone else


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Saw on Twitter earlier that PSG will have Neymar, plus Dembele who Barca bought to replace Neymar, plus Messi who Barca couldn't afford to keep because they'd spent so much money trying to replace Neymar.

How on earth do you get Neymar, Dembele, Messi, Mbappe, Di Maria and Icardi into a team? And that's before you look at players like Wijnaldum, Paredes, Verrati, Herrera, Gueye.
		
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Mbappe leaving in the summer , wouldn’t surprise me if they have a big clear out in the summer as well. 


fundy said:



			now talking about it being a free tfr

cant wait to see him start scoring goals for fun again for someone else 

Click to expand...

So they gave him a huge contract - and now let him go on a free to save money. Just giving away players and a quality one at that


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mbappe leaving in the summer , wouldn’t surprise me if they have a big clear out in the summer as well.


So they gave him a huge contract - and now let him go on a free to save money. Just giving away players and a quality one at that
		
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Well its better than the Ozil situation, albeit not that much better..............

Last 18mths of his contract wouldve cost Arsenal close to 30m, was probably the only way forward on the basis Arteta was never going to pick him again despite it being him whos handled him horrendously

This plan A and no plan B and pursuit of the so called perfect pieces to be "artetas team" the road were going down


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## Rlburnside (Jan 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Hopefully a move away from London will remove some of the distractions and get his head right again, wake up the hunger. Another move within London probably wouldn't change anything but a bigger move, in terms of distance 😉, may do the trick. Hopefully so, the old Alli is a player well worth having.
		
Click to expand...

I think your right and you might end up with a very good cheep signing, could be the right move to kick start his career, I expect he will play a lot more games now which will help him. 

New manager few new players  looking better for you now.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 1, 2022)

With the Jan window now shut, who do we think is being relegated this year?

I saw a stat a week or so ago that since Howe's appointment, no team in the bottom 4 had gained more points than Newcastle, throw in a bunch of new talented players, I can see them surviving.

My 3

Watford
Norwich
Burnley - unfortunately


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## Beezerk (Feb 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			With the Jan window now shut, who do we think is being relegated this year?

I saw a stat a week or so ago that since Howe's appointment, no team in the bottom 4 had gained more points than Newcastle, throw in a bunch of new talented players, I can see them surviving.

My 3

Watford
Norwich
Burnley - unfortunately
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that choice although I still have a feeling it won't all be plain sailing at Newcastle. Gonna be a good run in hopefully with some final day drama.


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## Orikoru (Feb 1, 2022)

I just read that Levy has basically stiffed MK Dons. They had a 20% sell-on clause for Dele Alli, but since the initial fee is zero they'll be getting bugger all. Classic Levy. Now it all makes sense. 




Bdill93 said:



			With the Jan window now shut, who do we think is being relegated this year?

I saw a stat a week or so ago that since Howe's appointment, no team in the bottom 4 had gained more points than Newcastle, throw in a bunch of new talented players, I can see them surviving.

My 3

Watford
Norwich
Burnley - unfortunately
		
Click to expand...

Norwich have had a little run of form but I'm sure they'll drop back in again. Their squad just isn't good enough. Watford are a car crash club anyway, I like Roy but again their squad is a bit of a mess. Burnley have used up their 9 lives by now and having lots of games in hand isn't always the advantage you think as it puts pressure on. 

Long story short, I agree with you.


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## GB72 (Feb 1, 2022)

Not sure if I read correctly but did Arsenal make use of a loophoile to get rid of Aubmeyang. From some reports I heard they released the player so he became a free agent so allowed the deal to go through after the deadline and hence it was only formally announced this morning. Guess that only works if the player is going on a free. You know my lack of football knowledge so that may be common, just sounded odd to me.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I just read that Levy has basically stiffed MK Dons. They had a 20% sell-on clause for Dele Alli, but since the initial fee is zero they'll be getting bugger all. Classic Levy. Now it all makes sense. 

Click to expand...

Nice to see Spurs helping the little guy. I know they are a business but you have to hope that wasn't part of the equation.


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			With the Jan window now shut, who do we think is being relegated this year?

I saw a stat a week or so ago that since Howe's appointment, no team in the bottom 4 had gained more points than Newcastle, throw in a bunch of new talented players, I can see them surviving.

My 3

Watford
Norwich
Burnley - unfortunately
		
Click to expand...

Norwich have 11 points to Newcastle's 10 in the same period. 

Burnley have 4 points. As do Watford.


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I just read that Levy has basically stiffed MK Dons. They had a 20% sell-on clause for Dele Alli, but since the initial fee is zero they'll be getting bugger all. Classic Levy. Now it all makes sense. 

Click to expand...

The sell-on clause would apply to all amounts received by Spurs in the future, including if Spurs have a sell-on in their deal with Everton. But it's profit based, so only paid on proceeds in excess of what Spurs paid.

Unless MK Dons solicitors are morons of course.

The smart thing to do though, is what Norwich did with Emi Buendia, and buy out sell the on clause for a relatively trivial amount once it becomes clear you have a serious talent on your hands and well before any transfer deal.


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 1, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Norwich have 11 points to Newcastle's 10 in the same period.

Burnley have 4 points. As do Watford.
		
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Have they all played the same number of games CY In the time involved? I realise you are talking about ’a period’.


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## fundy (Feb 1, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Have they all played the same number of games CY In the time involved? I realise you are talking about ’a period’.
		
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Points from last 5 games:

Norwich 6
Leeds 6
Newcastle 5
Brentford 3
Burnley 2
Everton 1
Watford 1

Points from last 10 games:

Leeds 11
Newcastle 10
Burnley 9
Norwich 8
Brentford 7
Everton 5
Watford 4


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 1, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Have they all played the same number of games CY In the time involved? I realise you are talking about ’a period’.
		
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I don't know. I can check that though, as you note, I was just fact checking Bdill93's statement about points accumulated since Eddie Howe took over.

Burnley have managed 7 games
Watford have played 9 games
Newcastle have played 10 games
Norwich have played 11

So PPG is equal for Norwich and Newcastle in that time. Burnley and Watford both some way behind on both metrics.

Games in hand for teams at the bottom are less relevant than those at the top. Also hard to read much in to short term form as there will be spells where the fixtures mean teams at the bottom will lose a few in a row, the thing that really matters is how they do when playing each other.

Brentford shouldn't be ruled out of the relegation picture either in my opinion. They should be ok, but they need to pick up a decent haul of points from Palace, Norwich, Newcastle and Burnley (4 out of their next 6 games).


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## Bdill93 (Feb 1, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I don't know. I can check that though, as you note, I was just fact checking Bdill93's statement about points accumulated since Eddie Howe took over.

Burnley have managed 7 games
Watford have played 9 games
Newcastle have played 10 games
Norwich have played 11

So PPG is equal for Norwich and Newcastle in that time. Burnley and Watford both some way behind on both metrics.

Games in hand for teams at the bottom are less relevant than those at the top. Also hard to read much in to short term form as there will be spells where the fixtures mean teams at the bottom will lose a few in a row, the thing that really matters is how they do when playing each other.

Brentford shouldn't be ruled out of the relegation picture either in my opinion. They should be ok, but they need to pick up a decent haul of points from Palace, Norwich, Newcastle and Burnley (4 out of their next 6 games).
		
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I mean I wasnt claiming to be captain stat man...   Maybe I read it before the last game was played - which you won and therefore different statistics.


Who do you think goes down was my question - obviously you think you're staying up!


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## Bdill93 (Feb 1, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			The sell-on clause would apply to all amounts received by Spurs in the future, including if Spurs have a sell-on in their deal with Everton. But it's profit based, so only paid on proceeds in excess of what Spurs paid.

Unless MK Dons solicitors are morons of course.

The smart thing to do though, is what Norwich did with Emi Buendia, and buy out sell the on clause for a relatively trivial amount once it becomes clear you have a serious talent on your hands and well before any transfer deal.
		
Click to expand...

Buendia is starting to show up for Villa too. Took a few months to bed in - but under Gerrard so far, hes improved massively. 

Was a bit shocked to see Cantwell has fallen in the pecking order, always thought he was one for the future!


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## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2022)

I think Watford and Norwich are done. 

Not quite sure what has happened to Todd Cantwell, i was surprised he's gone to Bournemouth.

Its a fight between Burnley, Newcastle and Everton for the last spot.

Newcastle may have just strengthened enough just to stay up if theu can keep their main men fit.

Burnley have got a bit too much to do but are capable of going anywhere and winning. They're an odd side

If Lampard keeps them up it'll be the biggest acheivement ever in football. They need to stop conceding goals and i'm not sure Lampard is the man to sort it based on his time with Chelsea and much better defenders to work with 

DVDB and Ali signings are strange, both very similar players. I can understand 1 but not both.

I cant split Everton and Burnley.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I think Watford and Norwich are done.

Not quite sure what has happened to Todd Cantwell, i was surprised he's gone to Bournemouth.

Its a fight between Burnley, Newcastle and Everton for the last spot.

Newcastle may have just strengthened enough just to stay up if theu can keep their main men fit.

Burnley have got a bit too much to do but are capable of going anywhere and winning. They're an odd side

If Lampard keeps them up it'll be the biggest acheivement ever in football. They need to stop conceding goals and i'm not sure Lampard is the man to sort it based on his time with Chelsea and much better defenders to work with

DVDB and Ali signings are strange, both very similar players. I can understand 1 but not both.

I cant split Everton and Burnley.
		
Click to expand...

Newcastle may have strengthened well but they have a massive handicap, their manager


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## Imurg (Feb 1, 2022)

I'd love it if the finished above West Ham...I'd just love it....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I think Watford and Norwich are done.

Not quite sure what has happened to Todd Cantwell, i was surprised he's gone to Bournemouth.

Its a fight between Burnley, Newcastle and Everton for the last spot.

Newcastle may have just strengthened enough just to stay up if theu can keep their main men fit.

Burnley have got a bit too much to do but are capable of going anywhere and winning. They're an odd side

If Lampard keeps them up it'll be the biggest acheivement ever in football. They need to stop conceding goals and i'm not sure Lampard is the man to sort it based on his time with Chelsea and much better defenders to work with

DVDB and Ali signings are strange, both very similar players. I can understand 1 but not both.

I cant split Everton and Burnley.
		
Click to expand...

See post No #22222


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## Orikoru (Feb 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I think Watford and Norwich are done.

Not quite sure what has happened to Todd Cantwell, i was surprised he's gone to Bournemouth.

Its a fight between Burnley, Newcastle and Everton for the last spot.

Newcastle may have just strengthened enough just to stay up if theu can keep their main men fit.

Burnley have got a bit too much to do but are capable of going anywhere and winning. They're an odd side

If Lampard keeps them up it'll be the biggest acheivement ever in football. They need to stop conceding goals and i'm not sure Lampard is the man to sort it based on his time with Chelsea and much better defenders to work with

DVDB and Ali signings are strange, both very similar players. I can understand 1 but not both.

I cant split Everton and Burnley.
		
Click to expand...

Would be hilarious if VDB spent more time on the bench again.   But I think he can easily play deeper than Dele. Dele's best position is even beyond that of a number 10, almost as a second striker. With Allan and Doucoure though it still might be too many central players - not sure how all four of them fit to be fair. Dele isn't very good as a left winger really. 

Everton should easily have enough to stay up, but they desperately need Calvert-Lewin fit to stay fit and get back on the scoresheet.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Would be hilarious if VDB spent more time on the bench again.   But I think he can easily play deeper than Dele. Dele's best position is even beyond that of a number 10, almost as a second striker. With Allan and Doucoure though it still might be too many central players - not sure how all four of them fit to be fair. Dele isn't very good as a left winger really.

Everton should easily have enough to stay up, but they desperately need Calvert-Lewin fit to stay fit and get back on the scoresheet.
		
Click to expand...

Doucoure is out for at least 4-6 weeks. 

I can see both playing and Lampard hoping we out score the opposition.

We are definitely in the relegation battle, but I also think Leeds, Brentford, Soton or even Palace could be sucked in to it.

Bottom 9 are all still in the mix.


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## Orikoru (Feb 1, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Doucoure is out for at least 4-6 weeks.

I can see both playing and Lampard hoping we out score the opposition.

We are definitely in the relegation battle, but I also think Leeds, Brentford, Soton or even Palace could be sucked in to it.

Bottom 9 are all still in the mix.
		
Click to expand...

There's always at least one who hit poor form at the wrong time and drop into the mire. Most likely Brentford will be involved, as they started well but have trailed off since then so it will be tough for them to pick it up again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2022)

Think Watford and Norwich are done 

The third spot could be anyone from 

Brentford 
Leeds
Everton
Newcastle 
Burnley 

On paper it’s tough to see Burnley get out of it but they have a habit of getting points when needed - 4 games in hand as well 

Newcastle - still a poor squad , haven’t strengthened enough 

Everton - getting players that need to kickstart their career - worked with Lingard but no striker and or anyone to help shore up the back. Manager imo not the right person to get them out of a relegation fight 

Leeds - need to get players fit again but along with Brentford think they have enough to stay clear 

I think it’s going to be Newcastle


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I mean I wasnt claiming to be captain stat man...   Maybe I read it before the last game was played - which you won and therefore different statistics.


Who do you think goes down was my question - obviously you think you're staying up!
		
Click to expand...

Haha! Yeah, Norwich fans don’t have much to cling on to this season, so I grab it where I can. I wondered about the last game, but I think Newcastle won theirs too, so can’t have been that.

Actually I think Norwich probably will go down. But great that we’ve given ourselves a shot after how our season started. I think had we had Smith for the whole season, we’d have 4 -6 points more than we do. We’ve got some players coming back from injury that we’ve really missed (Normann in particular), but I think ultimately we’ll just be a bit short of goals.

Cantwell has a very big ego, but he’s not as good as he thinks he is. He can only play one position, a semi-wide (not on the wing) attacking midfielder, he has limited vision, limited pace and he’s lightweight. He’s got a great touch, and really good feet, so he has moments of looking great, but all too often those are in very safe parts of the pitch. He’s got something like 18 goals and 15 assists in his entire career, whereas Buendia had 15 goals and 17 assists last season! You can’t teach vision for a pass, and where Buendia is an absolute wizard, Cantwell is not. When Buendia left, I think he hoped that the team would be built around him, but actually we switched to a different formation that he doesn’t feature in. Farke didn’t pick him, and Smith hasn’t picked him. The DoF isn’t a fan and none of his teammates are bothered he is leaving (according to a well established ITK on twitter). 



Bdill93 said:



			Buendia is starting to show up for Villa too. Took a few months to bed in - but under Gerrard so far, hes improved massively.

Was a bit shocked to see Cantwell has fallen in the pecking order, always thought he was one for the future!
		
Click to expand...

Buendia is a class player. We were very lucky to have Maddison and then having sold him for big bucks acquire Buendia for £1.5m, who is actually every bit as good - not as good at scoring long range goals, but has an eye for a pass like I’ve never seen before at Norwich. Others might mock, but I reckon it’s him and De Bruyne as the best two in the league at the disguised threaded ball that just destroys defences. Once your attackers are on the same wavelength he’ll create chance after chance after chance.


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I think Watford and Norwich are done.

Not quite sure what has happened to Todd Cantwell, i was surprised he's gone to Bournemouth.

Its a fight between Burnley, Newcastle and Everton for the last spot.

Newcastle may have just strengthened enough just to stay up if theu can keep their main men fit.

Burnley have got a bit too much to do but are capable of going anywhere and winning. They're an odd side

If Lampard keeps them up it'll be the biggest acheivement ever in football. They need to stop conceding goals and i'm not sure Lampard is the man to sort it based on his time with Chelsea and much better defenders to work with

DVDB and Ali signings are strange, both very similar players. I can understand 1 but not both.

I cant split Everton and Burnley.
		
Click to expand...

I think Watford have got a better chance than Burnley. Watford have got goals in the team and you’d back Hodgson to sort the defence. Burnley have been goal shy, and keeping clean sheets is tough in the PL (even though they’re pretty good at it). So, for that reason, I’d say Norwich and Burnley to go down, with one of Watford and Newcastle.


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## sunshine (Feb 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Not quite sure what has happened to Todd Cantwell, i was surprised he's gone to Bournemouth.
		
Click to expand...

This was a surprise, I thought he looked really good last time Norwich were in the prem. Bournemouth signed 4 players in the window - going all out for promotion this year.


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 1, 2022)

sunshine said:



			This was a surprise, I thought he looked really good last time Norwich were in the prem. Bournemouth signed 4 players in the window - going all out for promotion this year.
		
Click to expand...

He flatters to deceive, other than a spell in the first couple of months we were up last time round, as his stats show. Plenty of nice showy touches and bits of skill, not enough assists in particular. 

However, there is a good player in there and maybe this move is what he needs to reset his ego. 

For his sake, I hope he’s closer to how good he thinks he is than how good I think he is!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2022)

Having looked at the prem table, I honestly could not say who is nailed on to go down. A Month ago I would have bet my house on Norwich being certs. Now look at them. 
Even though they have played the least Burnley are in a bad place at the moment


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## sunshine (Feb 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Dele Alli is Everton-bound. I think he needs a decent haircut before he'll start playing well again. It genuinely can't help having massive dreadlocks flopping around your face can it?
		
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Yeah impossible to play with dreadlocks


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## sunshine (Feb 1, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			He flatters to deceive, other than a spell in the first couple of months we were up last time round, as his stats show. Plenty of nice showy touches and bits of skill, not enough assists in particular.

However, there is a good player in there and maybe this move is what he needs to reset his ego.

For his sake, I hope he’s closer to how good he thinks he is than how good I think he is!
		
Click to expand...

Good insight. Sounds like the type of player who struggles in the Championship!


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 1, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Good insight. Sounds like the type of player who struggles in the Championship!
		
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He summed Norwich under Farke up neatly I think; very good in the championship because opponents struggle to cope with the level of technical skill we had. However, not up to it in the Prem as the opposition can cope (or better it in many cases) and then we can’t cope with their pace and power.

Better under Smith with a slightly more pragmatic approach though.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Newcastle may have strengthened well but they have a massive handicap, their manager
		
Click to expand...

Same could equally be said for Everton. I think they have to play them twice, both will be 6ptrs.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			See post No #22222

Click to expand...

Nurse Nurse he's stopped taking his medication😁😁


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## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Would be hilarious if VDB spent more time on the bench again.   But I think he can easily play deeper than Dele. Dele's best position is even *beyond that of a number 10, almost as a second striker.* With Allan and Doucoure though it still might be too many central players - not sure how all four of them fit to be fair. Dele isn't very good as a left winger really.

Everton should easily have enough to stay up, but they desperately need Calvert-Lewin fit to stay fit and get back on the scoresheet.
		
Click to expand...

Isnt that where Richarlison plays when hes not rolling round the floor holding his knee or face.

Easily have enough?? Have you seen their games this season😂😂


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## BrianM (Feb 1, 2022)

Aaron Ramsay to Rangers…..
Granted a few injury problems recently but still a top player?
I personally think the SPFL is probably a good step down compared to the level he’s played at.
Thought a few Premiership sides would of taken him no bother at only 31.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2022)

Great to see Jermain Defoe back at Sunderland. Has a special bond with the Club and the area and I hope he helps get them promoted this season.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2022)

Quite impressed with the pedigree of the 3 backroom Staff Lampard has brought in.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1488544943673065481


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## Orikoru (Feb 1, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Yeah impossible to play with dreadlocks
















Click to expand...

Was he good when he had short hair? Yes. Is he good now? No. What's changed? His hair. These are the facts.


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## fundy (Feb 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Was he good when he had short hair? Yes. Is he good now? No. What's changed? His hair. These are the facts. 

Click to expand...


was he good before he did a sex tape? ish
has he been truly awful since? yup

the defense rests


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## fundy (Feb 1, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Aaron Ramsay to Rangers…..
Granted a few injury problems recently but still a top player?
I personally think the SPFL is probably a good step down compared to the level he’s played at.
Thought a few Premiership sides would of taken him no bother at only 31.
		
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really odd one this, especially as Juventus are still paying most of his wages on all accounts. hopefully he stays fit and gets a decent deal somewhere next year


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## BrianM (Feb 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			really odd one this, especially as Juventus are still paying most of his wages on all accounts. hopefully he stays fit and gets a decent deal somewhere next year
		
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I think it’s to get him in the shop window, apparently he was on 400k a week at Juventus…
Great signing for Rangers and Scottish football in my opinion.


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## fundy (Feb 1, 2022)

BrianM said:



			I think it’s to get him in the shop window, apparently he was on 400k a week at Juventus…
Great signing for Rangers and Scottish football in my opinion.
		
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yeah that was the result of yet another car crash contract negotiation and ultimately asset value destruction by arsenal culminating in them losing a player for free and the player ending up on far too high wages (sadly its a predictable story of late, not always that way round)


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## Jensen (Feb 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Newcastle may have strengthened well but they have a massive handicap, their manager
		
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I disagree, Howe did a fantastic job at Bournemouth with a very limited budget. I think he’s quite an astute manager and definitely the right choice. 
Even if The Toon do get relegated, and I’m not so sure now, he’ll get them straight up.


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## BrianM (Feb 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			yeah that was the result of yet another car crash contract negotiation and ultimately asset value destruction by arsenal culminating in them losing a player for free and the player ending up on far too high wages (sadly its a predictable story of late, not always that way round)
		
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In your opinion could he get a game in the current Arsenal midfield?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 1, 2022)

Awful window for us.  We need a striker and a CB ... Nat Phillips would have been perfect

Apparently we wanted Duje Caleta-Car of Marseille

Them being in dire straights again he was available for 15 million.. but the board refused .. loan to buy.. for crying out loud..

And Simon Jordan for once hit the nail on the head.. the board played their usual games .. 50 mil for raphina and Phillips? Bids they knew full well would never go anywhere but they can appear to try 

Every year they pull that trick


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## pauljames87 (Feb 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I disagree, Howe did a fantastic job at Bournemouth with a very limited budget. I think he’s quite an astute manager and definitely the right choice.
Even if The Toon do get relegated, and I’m not so sure now, he’ll get them straight up.
		
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For a defender he can't organise a defence


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I disagree, Howe did a fantastic job at Bournemouth with a very limited budget. I think he’s quite an astute manager and definitely the right choice.
Even if The Toon do get relegated, and I’m not so sure now, he’ll get them straight up.
		
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You have to remember mate, very few rate opposition managers.


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## fundy (Feb 1, 2022)

BrianM said:



			In your opinion could he get a game in the current Arsenal midfield?
		
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we dont have a midfield lol, so no reason why not, but doesnt fit the arteta jigsaw and only arteta plan A jigsaw shaped pieces allowed these days

the size of our squad Jack Wilshere will be back in central midfield before the seasons out (cant believe ive even joked about this)


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 1, 2022)

Greenwood now been further arrested for sexual abuse and threats to kill.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...spicion-of-sexual-assault-and-threats-to-kill


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## Jimaroid (Feb 1, 2022)

Newcastle worry me. From our remaining fixtures it’s a must win game against them and with both teams undergoing big changes in recent weeks it’s going to be two very new sides with a lot to prove going against each other. 

Newcastle have the advantage of better recent form and seeing Lampard’s first outing with us in the FA cup in preparation. 

So yeah, they worry me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Newcastle worry me. From our remaining fixtures it’s a must win game against them and with both teams undergoing big changes in recent weeks it’s going to be two very new sides with a lot to prove going against each other.

Newcastle have the advantage of better recent form and seeing Lampard’s first outing with us in the FA cup in preparation.

So yeah, they worry me.
		
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Happy to ignore next couple of games results and watch how the players respond.

Win both and we set ourselves up for a fall etc. I want to see how the players respond plus both new signings not available for Cup match, so there could be 2 different looking teams for both games.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 1, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Greenwood now been further arrested for sexual abuse and threats to kill.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...spicion-of-sexual-assault-and-threats-to-kill

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Hopefully they all stick and he enjoys his transfer to prison FC.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Newcastle worry me. From our remaining fixtures it’s a must win game against them and with both teams undergoing big changes in recent weeks it’s going to be two very new sides with a lot to prove going against each other.

Newcastle have the advantage of better recent form and seeing Lampard’s first outing with us in the FA cup in preparation.

So yeah, they worry me.
		
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Mixed feelings about this. I saw them against Watford and they were not good. The centre backs were slow and awful, there were big gaps in centre midfield and the striker was completely isolated. I think we could go straight through the middle of them, capitalise on the huge spaces. Stop Saint Maximin and there is minimal goal threat.

The new lad from Lyon may scupper the midfield dominance but who knows if it is too soon for him to impact.

Our biggest weakness is defensive set pieces. That is a constant worry and Newcastle have some big lads to go forward at corners, Trippier can put in a good ball. It should certainly be lively but hopefully our new signings will give us more of a goal threat. They will definitely give us chances, it depends if we take them.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Awful window for us.  We need a striker and a CB ... Nat Phillips would have been perfect

Apparently we wanted Duje Caleta-Car of Marseille

Them being in dire straights again he was available for 15 million.. but the board refused .. loan to buy.. for crying out loud..

And Simon Jordan for once hit the nail on the head.. the board played their usual games .. 50 mil for raphina and Phillips? Bids they knew full well would never go anywhere but they can appear to try

Every year they pull that trick
		
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This was a real opportunity to improve the squad and push on......but not now....going into the 2nd half of a European season with such a slim squad and 1 recognised striker is nothing short of negligent. I think we can forget about 4th, going deep in Europe or even an FA Cup run now. 

Also we have shown no ambition to our good young players....Rice, Bowen etc will be off in the Summer no doubt.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 1, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Happy to ignore next couple of games results and watch how the players respond.

Win both and we set ourselves up for a fall etc. I want to see how the players respond plus both new signings not available for Cup match, so there could be 2 different looking teams for both games.
		
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Winning both feels a fantasy to me at the moment. Not saying I don’t want that but it just feels unlikely given where we are. So the question is which of the two do we need more and it’s definitely the Newcastle game. And I have t even thought about the scenario of the cup match bringing us more injury trouble yet. Oh god I feel sick.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			This was a real opportunity to improve the squad and push on......but not now....going into the 2nd half of a European season with such a slim squad and 1 recognised striker is nothing short of negligent. I think we can forget about 4th, going deep in Europe or even an FA Cup run now.

Also we have shown no ambition to our good young players....Rice, Bowen etc will be off in the Summer no doubt.
		
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I mean our first team is brilliant

We can even push Bowen up top and have good replacements on his wing

However as shown over Xmas with 3/4 of the first choice back line out just hindered us. We were lucky to beat palace defo.

This summer just got even tougher aswell 

Noble finally retires but that's the back up gone

Yarmeleko is going 

Kral returns to his club so that's the back up back up gone 

Antonio is 32. Cresswell 31

How do we replace half the squad plus rice if he leaves


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Winning both feels a fantasy to me at the moment. Not saying I don’t want that but it just feels unlikely given where we are. So the question is which of the two do we need more and it’s definitely the Newcastle game. And I have t even thought about the scenario of the cup match bringing us more injury trouble yet. Oh god I feel sick.
		
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1 game at a time mate.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I mean our first team is brilliant

We can even push Bowen up top and have good replacements on his wing

However as shown over Xmas with 3/4 of the first choice back line out just hindered us. We were lucky to beat palace defo.

This summer just got even tougher aswell

Noble finally retires but that's the back up gone

Yarmeleko is going

Kral returns to his club so that's the back up back up gone

Antonio is 32. Cresswell 31

How do we replace half the squad plus rice if he leaves
		
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Add to that Areola will probably be off, which is a shame as I really rate him, Ogbonna may not come back and is also 33 and Fredericks and Masuaka are only just about squad players. We could do with about 12 new players.
As much as I hate Sullivan, reading reports today seems to suggest that there was funds available but “due diligence Dave” wasn’t happy with what was on offer so ended up with nowt! It’s the 3rd window now we have not been able to sign a striker. 

If we go behind to Watford I can see the crowd getting vocal towards (k)GSB which would be a real shame not least because it’s supposed to be a tribute to Isla https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2022/january/25-january/tribute-isla-caton-west-ham-united


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## pauljames87 (Feb 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Add to that Areola will probably be off, which is a shame as I really rate him, Ogbonna may not come back and is also 33 and Fredericks and Masuaka are only just about squad players. We could do with about 12 new players.
As much as I hate Sullivan, reading reports today seems to suggest that there was funds available but “due diligence Dave” wasn’t happy with what was on offer so ended up with nowt! It’s the 3rd window now we have not been able to sign a striker.

If we go behind to Watford I can see the crowd getting vocal towards (k)GSB which would be a real shame not least because it’s supposed to be a tribute to Isla https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2022/january/25-january/tribute-isla-caton-west-ham-united

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I don't think his dithering was much to do with it...he wanted the defender they wouldn't pay 

Those bids for Phillips and raphina everyone knew would never get accepted 

Yeah hope they don't ruin the Tribute, poor girl


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## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2022)

Kevin Friend gets a rest after the Jota pen that he was told to change. Alledgely all officials have been told that if they're sent over to the monitor to review a decision, then they must change their decision.

Being dropped for this round of fixtures seems harsh.

I wonder if Tierney would've like to have seen the replay of the Kane yellow and Jota pen🤔


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## Bdill93 (Feb 1, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Haha! Yeah, Norwich fans don’t have much to cling on to this season, so I grab it where I can. I wondered about the last game, but I think Newcastle won theirs too, so can’t have been that.

Actually I think Norwich probably will go down. But great that we’ve given ourselves a shot after how our season started. I think had we had Smith for the whole season, we’d have 4 -6 points more than we do. We’ve got some players coming back from injury that we’ve really missed (Normann in particular), but I think ultimately we’ll just be a bit short of goals.

Cantwell has a very big ego, but he’s not as good as he thinks he is. He can only play one position, a semi-wide (not on the wing) attacking midfielder, he has limited vision, limited pace and he’s lightweight. He’s got a great touch, and really good feet, so he has moments of looking great, but all too often those are in very safe parts of the pitch. He’s got something like 18 goals and 15 assists in his entire career, whereas Buendia had 15 goals and 17 assists last season! You can’t teach vision for a pass, and where Buendia is an absolute wizard, Cantwell is not. When Buendia left, I think he hoped that the team would be built around him, but actually we switched to a different formation that he doesn’t feature in. Farke didn’t pick him, and Smith hasn’t picked him. The DoF isn’t a fan and none of his teammates are bothered he is leaving (according to a well established ITK on twitter).



Buendia is a class player. We were very lucky to have Maddison and then having sold him for big bucks acquire Buendia for £1.5m, who is actually every bit as good - not as good at scoring long range goals, but has an eye for a pass like I’ve never seen before at Norwich. Others might mock, but I reckon it’s him and De Bruyne as the best two in the league at the disguised threaded ball that just destroys defences. Once your attackers are on the same wavelength he’ll create chance after chance after chance.
		
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Saw some stats the other day that Buendia has had the highest progressive passes in the league this season by a country mile - so I think you are right! Just not quite hit those levels yet, if he does for us it sounds awesome 😍

Fingers crossed this second half of the season we start playing some serious football


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Kevin Friend gets a rest after the Jota pen that he was told to change. Alledgely all officials have been told that if they're sent over to the monitor to review a decision, then they must change their decision.

Being dropped for this round of fixtures seems harsh.

I wonder if Tierney would've like to have seen the replay of the Kane yellow and Jota pen🤔
		
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That's appalling if correct. Pointless them going to look if the decision has already effectively been taken.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's appalling if correct. Pointless them going to look if the decision has already effectively been taken.
		
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None of the 49 pitchside referrals have been upheld this season.

Now on the balance of probability you’d expect a small amount of decisions to be upheld.


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## Orikoru (Feb 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I disagree, Howe did a fantastic job at Bournemouth with a very limited budget. I think he’s quite an astute manager and definitely the right choice.
Even if The Toon do get relegated, and I’m not so sure now, he’ll get them straight up.
		
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Howe was massively overrated there. Got them up and they played some nice football at times, but in however many years it was he never addressed the defensive problems. Every year they conceded 60 odd goals! You can't do that in the Premier League, it catches up with you. And what Newcastle needed was someone to come in and sort their defence out for one thing, and he's absolutely not the man for that job. If he's going to keep them up by trying to outscore every team, it'll be fun to watch, I'm just not sure they have the firepower to do it.


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## hairball_89 (Feb 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I disagree, Howe did a fantastic job at Bournemouth with a very limited budget. I think he’s quite an astute manager and definitely the right choice.
Even if The Toon do get relegated, and I’m not so sure now, he’ll get them straight up.
		
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Fantastic? Really? I'm with @Orikoru here. He got them up and they played some nice football in the first few seasons. But they got consistently worse each season, there was no long term vision and nothing to suggest he had any idea how to do anything different to what got them into the premier league. Their relegation was purely a matter of time - the defence as Orikoru mentioned, started out like a sieve and the holes just got bigger. 

That said, will they go down? No idea. As long as Burnley go down, I don't really care which 2 they take with them!


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## rudebhoy (Feb 2, 2022)

BrianM said:



			I think it’s to get him in the shop window, apparently he was on 400k a week at Juventus…
Great signing for Rangers and Scottish football in my opinion.
		
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Word is Rangers have paid a 2m loan fee and will be paying 40k a week of his 400k wages. Very good player on his day, but has hardly played this season and Juve desperate to punt him. He may do well, but it's far from certain. You do have to wonder why no EPL club wanted him.


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## Slime (Feb 2, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Word is Rangers have paid a 2m loan fee and will be paying 40k a week of his 400k wages. Very good player on his day, but has hardly played this season and Juve desperate to punt him. He may do well, but it's far from certain. *You do have to wonder why no EPL club wanted him.*

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Apparently they did, Arsenal included, but he turned them down in favour of Rangers.
Maybe he just realised that Rangers was the easy option and it's a club where he should find it easy to win things.


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## rudebhoy (Feb 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			Apparently they did, Arsenal included, but he turned them down in favour of Rangers.
Maybe he just realised that Rangers was the easy option and it's a club where he should find it easy to win things.
		
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Its one thing the gossip columns linking a player with a club, but is there any proof of a concrete offer from an EPL club? As for winning stuff, he's only at Rangers for 4 months, and there is a good chance they won't be winning anything. Ideal move for him would have been somewhere like Newcastle, help save them from relegation and a lucrative free transfer in the summer.


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## Cherry13 (Feb 2, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Fantastic? Really? I'm with @Orikoru here. He got them up and they played some nice football in the first few seasons. But they got consistently worse each season, there was no long term vision and nothing to suggest he had any idea how to do anything different to what got them into the premier league. Their relegation was purely a matter of time - the defence as Orikoru mentioned, started out like a sieve and the holes just got bigger.

That said, will they go down? No idea. As long as Burnley go down, I don't really care which 2 they take with them!
		
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He is a whole lot better than what we had, and has already greatly reduced the goals conceded per game ratio, including two results against Liverpool and city.  Under Howe we‘ve also, and more importantly, had 2 clean sheets against relegation rivals, and if we do survive that’s where it’s going to matter.  To be honest at this point I don’t care if he conceded 60 most seasons, only conceding 60 would be an achievement This season.   We need to beat those around us and then get the odd result against the other 12 teams hopefully to survive.  

if we do stay up, he then has the opportunity of a lifetime to build a club, and if he drags us into a scrap I’ve no doubt he’ll get sacked. Realistically I don’t see one manager taking us from where we are now, to where we want to be.  But hopefully he does and he proves along the way that he’s learnt from his Bournemouth experience and can successfully build a club.  

Just from a personal point of view, the most depressing game of football I’ve ever watched was Newcastle AT HOME to man city.  They beat us 1-0, now at face value that doesn’t sound too bad.  We had 20% possession and sat with two banks of 5 in our own box.  It was awful turgid football, it achieved the aim of not having a huge impact on goal difference, but when your aim for the season is to ‘gain an extra point‘ in goal difference across the season, thats a pretty poor place to be.  Im not saying or proposing that we should go back to the keegan days, but at least some progressive attacking football would be nice, and if the odd spanking comes along as a result of that, well so be it.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 2, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			He is a whole lot better than what we had, and has already greatly reduced the goals conceded per game ratio, including two results against Liverpool and city.  Under Howe we‘ve also, and more importantly, had 2 clean sheets against relegation rivals, and if we do survive that’s where it’s going to matter.  To be honest at this point I don’t care if he conceded 60 most seasons, only conceding 60 would be an achievement This season.   We need to beat those around us and then get the odd result against the other 12 teams hopefully to survive. 

if we do stay up, he then has the opportunity of a lifetime to build a club, and if he drags us into a scrap I’ve no doubt he’ll get sacked. Realistically I don’t see one manager taking us from where we are now, to where we want to be.  But hopefully he does and he proves along the way that he’s learnt from his Bournemouth experience and can successfully build a club. 

J*ust from a personal point of view, the most depressing game of football I’ve ever watched was Newcastle AT HOME to man city.  They beat us 1-0, now at face value that doesn’t sound too bad.  We had 20% possession and sat with two banks of 5 in our own box.*  It was awful turgid football, it achieved the aim of not having a huge impact on goal difference, but when your aim for the season is to ‘gain an extra point‘ in goal difference across the season, thats a pretty poor place to be.  Im not saying or proposing that we should go back to the keegan days, but at least some progressive attacking football would be nice, and if the odd spanking comes along as a result of that, well so be it.
		
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You could be a Man Utd fan talking about their performance against City


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			Apparently they did, Arsenal included, but he turned them down in favour of Rangers.
Maybe he just realised that Rangers was the easy option and it's a club where he should find it easy to win things.
		
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lol if you believe the papers Arsenal were turned down by 116 players this January, 2nd only to the window 2 years ago


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## GreiginFife (Feb 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol if you believe the papers Arsenal were turned down by 116 players this January, 2nd only to the window 2 years ago 

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Which, of course, is total rubbish. 

116 is way too low… 🤪


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## Bdill93 (Feb 2, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			He is a whole lot better than what we had, and has already greatly reduced the goals conceded per game ratio, including two results against Liverpool and city.  Under Howe we‘ve also, and more importantly, had 2 clean sheets against relegation rivals, and if we do survive that’s where it’s going to matter.  To be honest at this point I don’t care if he conceded 60 most seasons, only conceding 60 would be an achievement This season.   We need to beat those around us and then get the odd result against the other 12 teams hopefully to survive. 

if we do stay up, he then has the opportunity of a lifetime to build a club, and if he drags us into a scrap I’ve no doubt he’ll get sacked. Realistically I don’t see one manager taking us from where we are now, to where we want to be.  But hopefully he does and he proves along the way that he’s learnt from his Bournemouth experience and can successfully build a club. 

Just from a personal point of view, the most depressing game of football I’ve ever watched was Newcastle AT HOME to man city.  They beat us 1-0, now at face value that doesn’t sound too bad.  We had 20% possession and sat with two banks of 5 in our own box.  It was awful turgid football, it achieved the aim of not having a huge impact on goal difference, but when your aim for the season is to ‘gain an extra point‘ in goal difference across the season, thats a pretty poor place to be.  Im not saying or proposing that we should go back to the keegan days, but at least some progressive attacking football would be nice, and if the odd spanking comes along as a result of that, well so be it.
		
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Someone had to be the first manager and the market for managers isn't exactly bursting at the seams at the moment. The best already have great clubs to manage. 

Its a great opportunity for Howe - probably the best he could ever ask for in his career, but we all know from here on out you will follow a similar model to what both City and Chelsea did following serious investment. Managers will come and go until you hit the big time. So long as you hire a world class Director of football who has long term vision in regards to player transfers and style of football, you'll slowly build to be the powerhouse we all expect.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2022)

I’m not for one minute saying they are or will be the greatest English Managers ever, but, it was not long ago on here posters were moaning about the same old managers on the Club merry go round, ie, Bruce, Allardyce, Pardew, Hodgson etc and asking why Clubs weren’t giving younger guys a chance, and now we’ve got Potter, Howe, Gerrard and Lampard, people are picking them to bits and saying how they are not good enough.

I can’t think of one great manager who didn’t have to prove themselves at lower levels before making it at the top.

And still some of them, Pep, Jose, Klopp etc aren’t rated by everyone.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 2, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m not for one minute saying they are or will be the greatest English Managers ever, but, it was not long ago on here posters were moaning about the same old managers on the Club merry go round, ie, Bruce, Allardyce, Pardew, Hodgson etc and asking why Clubs weren’t giving younger guys a chance, and now we’ve got Potter, Howe, Gerrard and Lampard, people are picking them to bits and saying how they are not good enough.

I can’t think of one great manager who didn’t have to prove themselves at lower levels before making it at the top.

And still some of them, Pep, Jose, Klopp etc aren’t rated by everyone.
		
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Gerrards been awesome so far to be fair. 

If Dean Smith saves Norwich, he could become the next big Sam!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Gerrards been awesome so far to be fair.

If Dean Smith saves Norwich, he could become the next big Sam!
		
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Mate, I hope all the English guys come good, but I would say it’s a little early to describe him as awesome, give him a season or 2.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 2, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, I hope all the English guys come good, but I would say it’s a little early to describe him as awesome, give him a season or 2.

Click to expand...

I dont really care to be your next argument on this thread. Awesome so far.... Not awesome full stop. 

Within weeks he put into place a strategy and footballing philosophy which is clearly evident to all the fans already. Its highly entertaining and we have never not competed in any games. Great back room staff alongside him who have already improved some of the players by allowing them to play the right type of football. 

Hes shipped out dead wood and brought in better replacements attracting names that our previous manager wouldnt (Not a dig at Smith - big fan and will always appreciate what he did for AVFC)

What more can you ask for in such a short space of time.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont really care to be your next argument on this thread. Awesome so far.... Not awesome full stop.

Within weeks he put into place a strategy and footballing philosophy which is clearly evident to all the fans already. Its highly entertaining and we have never not competed in any games. Great back room staff alongside him who have already improved some of the players by allowing them to play the right type of football.

Hes shipped out dead wood and brought in better replacements attracting names that our previous manager wouldnt (Not a dig at Smith - big fan and will always appreciate what he did for AVFC)

What more can you ask for in such a short space of time.
		
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OK, I’ll bow out if that’s how you’ve taken my post, I thought I was praising the English managers and wanting them to succeed and thought you were including his time at Rangers.
I hope he’s a success at Villa as I see it as a good thing for future England managers.


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m not for one minute saying they are or will be the greatest English Managers ever, but, it was not long ago on here posters were moaning about the same old managers on the Club merry go round, ie, Bruce, Allardyce, Pardew, Hodgson etc and asking why Clubs weren’t giving younger guys a chance, and now we’ve got Potter, Howe, Gerrard and Lampard, people are picking them to bits and saying how they are not good enough.

I can’t think of one great manager who didn’t have to prove themselves at lower levels before making it at the top.

And still some of them, Pep, Jose, Klopp etc aren’t rated by everyone.
		
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None of that really ties in with my opinions. Potter seems to be a excellent manager, I'd happily have him at Spurs when Conte gets bored. Gerrard seems to have started well, and I think Lampard did well at Chelsea when bringing the youth players in and finishing top four under the transfer ban - just a little out of his depth when the ban was lifted and they gave him new players left, right and centre. I also rate Allardyce and Hodgson as sensible, pragmatic managers to bring in when you're down in the crap at the bottom of the league. Bruce less so, he seems a bit clueless at times.

Edit: To bring it back to what prompted this - it's only Howe I think has been massively overrated! Probably _because_ of the fact he's English. If he was foreign he'd be seen as naive rather than a plucky young English manager.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m not for one minute saying they are or will be the greatest English Managers ever, but, it was not long ago on here posters were moaning about the same old managers on the Club merry go round, ie, Bruce, Allardyce, Pardew, Hodgson etc and asking why Clubs weren’t giving younger guys a chance, and now we’ve got Potter, Howe, Gerrard and Lampard, people are picking them to bits and saying how they are not good enough.

I can’t think of one great manager who didn’t have to prove themselves at lower levels before making it at the top.

And still some of them, Pep, Jose, Klopp etc aren’t rated by everyone.
		
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Managers like Gerrard , Potter and Howe imo have started to prove themselves 

No idea why Howe is being dismissed- he did a great job at Bournemouth , I don’t think he is right manager for Newcastle but think he is still a good manager 

Potter did well at Swansea and is doing well at Brighton - think he deserves a chance at a bigger club if they come along 

Gerrard - did well at Rangers , won trophies there to break up the Celtic domination. Villa have given him a go and he seems to have started well , interesting to see how he goes 

Lampard - he has managed to get a couple of jobs because of who he is imo as opposed to what he did , Derby he didn’t seem to move them forward , Chelsea he got the job because he was an ex player and don’t think anyone else would touch them , did ok with a talented team but then dropped when given money . Everton have given him a go - like Howe at Newcastle I don’t think he is the right man for that job but we will see. 

These managers though have a different way  of looking at the game than the likes of Allardyce, Bruce etc - they all want to play the game on the offensive. They are different in their thinking , their methods - they are prob closer to the modern Footballer as well


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			None of that really ties in with my opinions. Potter seems to be a excellent manager, I'd happily have him at Spurs when Conte gets bored. Gerrard seems to have started well, and I think Lampard did well at Chelsea when bringing the youth players in and finishing top four under the transfer ban - just a little out of his depth when the ban was lifted and they gave him new players left, right and centre. I also rate Allardyce and Hodgson as sensible, pragmatic managers to bring in when you're down in the crap at the bottom of the league. Bruce less so, he seems a bit clueless at times.
		
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I never made the post aiming it at anyone in particular, it’s fact though, people tend to write off our own managers when very few have been given a chance, now we have 4 getting a chance and people are finding faults. I hope they are succesful for the reason I stated.

Howe got B’Mouth relegated, but he kept them in the PL for 5 seasons with very little financial backing and finished top 10 one season, Yes they conceded goals, but there were teams who stayed in the PL and conceded more, he had them playing some good football, scoring a lot of goals. His time with BMouth he’ll of learnt a lot.


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 2, 2022)

Cruel World. WBA sack Manger.  More surprising Chris Wilder is hot favourite. Hope Hobbit is not reading this. Probably siesta time in Andalucia.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Managers like Gerrard , Potter and Howe imo have started to prove themselves

No idea why Howe is being dismissed- he did a great job at Bournemouth , I don’t think he is right manager for Newcastle but think he is still a good manager

Potter did well at Swansea and is doing well at Brighton - think he deserves a chance at a bigger club if they come along

Gerrard - did well at Rangers , won trophies there to break up the Celtic domination. Villa have given him a go and he seems to have started well , interesting to see how he goes

Lampard - he has managed to get a couple of jobs because of who he is imo as opposed to what he did , Derby he didn’t seem to move them forward , Chelsea he got the job because he was an ex player and don’t think anyone else would touch them , did ok with a talented team but then dropped when given money . Everton have given him a go - like Howe at Newcastle I don’t think he is the right man for that job but we will see.

These managers though have a different way  of looking at the game than the likes of Allardyce, Bruce etc - they all want to play the game on the offensive. They are different in their thinking , their methods - they are prob closer to the modern Footballer as well
		
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You're only as good as your last job.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Managers like Gerrard , Potter and Howe imo have started to prove themselves

No idea why Howe is being dismissed- he did a great job at Bournemouth , I don’t think he is right manager for Newcastle but think he is still a good manager

Potter did well at Swansea and is doing well at Brighton - think he deserves a chance at a bigger club if they come along

Gerrard - did well at Rangers , won trophies there to break up the Celtic domination. Villa have given him a go and he seems to have started well , interesting to see how he goes

Lampard - he has managed to get a couple of jobs because of who he is imo as opposed to what he did , Derby he didn’t seem to move them forward , Chelsea he got the job because he was an ex player and don’t think anyone else would touch them , did ok with a talented team but then dropped when given money . Everton have given him a go - like Howe at Newcastle I don’t think he is the right man for that job but we will see.

These managers though have a different way  of looking at the game than the likes of Allardyce, Bruce etc - they all want to play the game on the offensive. They are different in their thinking , their methods - they are prob closer to the modern Footballer as well
		
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He took Derby in his one and only season to the Championship play off for the first time in 6 seasons, then was offered the Chelsea job, who knows what he’d of done if he’d of stayed, plus Chelsea to 4th and the FA Cup Final in his first season isn’t bad either and was 9th part way through the season when he was sacked after a run of 5 losses out of 6.

As I’ve already said though, it’s good to see them all getting a chance.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 2, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m not for one minute saying they are or will be the greatest English Managers ever, but, it was not long ago on here posters were moaning about the same old managers on the Club merry go round, ie, Bruce, Allardyce, Pardew, Hodgson etc and asking why Clubs weren’t giving younger guys a chance, and now we’ve got Potter, Howe, Gerrard and Lampard, people are picking them to bits and saying how they are not good enough.

I can’t think of one great manager who didn’t have to prove themselves at lower levels before making it at the top.

And still some of them, Pep, Jose, Klopp etc aren’t rated by everyone.
		
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I’m going to hazard a guess and say Steven Gerrard will become one of the most successful managers in the future.
The worst thing is it could be with Liverpool.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I’m going to hazard a guess and say Steven Gerrard will become one of the most successful managers in the future.
The worst thing is it could be with Liverpool.
		
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Not bothered Tony, the only time I care is when they are opposing Everton.

I’d like to see an Englishman have success on the European stage and be talked about in the same way we hear Pep, Jose, Klopp etc being talked about and then when the England Manager’s job is vacant we could be discussing some real quality options rather than those who just happen to have no more qualification than being English.


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 2, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			He took Derby in his one and only season to the Championship play off for the first time in 6 seasons, then was offered the Chelsea job, who knows what he’d of done if he’d of stayed, plus Chelsea to 4th and the FA Cup Final in his first season isn’t bad either and was 9th part way through the season when he was sacked after a run of 5 losses out of 6.

As I’ve already said though, it’s good to see them all getting a chance.
		
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When I look at the players he had at derby, my view is that he did not over achieve. They had Mount, Wilson, Tomori, Huddlestone and Ashley Cole. That requires a big budget, and more of a budget than most of the teams that finished above them. Not really anything that should have warranted being offered the Chelsea job. 

From how it went at Chelsea, I think he might be quite a good short-term motivator, but transfers and defensive organisation look questionable. 

I reckon he might get a reaction out of Everton and re-energise them, not convinced of his long-term managerial acumen, but that's really because he's not had the chance to demonstrate whether he's actually good or not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2022)

So just seen a random question 

A direct free kick goes into the teams own goal what is given 

A. Goal
B. In Direct Free kick
C. Corner


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 2, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I’m going to hazard a guess and say Steven Gerrard will become one of the most successful managers in the future.
The worst thing is it could be with Liverpool.
		
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The early signs are positive. Seems to be tactically astute and a good motivator, it's always been clear that he's a leader.

Will be interesting to see how he goes when it comes to spending some more cash in the summer, or if Villa have a good second half of the season, how he goes with increased expectation. Still v early days in his career.


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So just seen a random question

A direct free kick goes into the teams own goal what is given

A. Goal
B. In Direct Free kick
C. Corner
		
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You wouldn't be asking if it was goal, so I'm going to say corner.   I thought that was just for throw-ins though if nobody touches it.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So just seen a random question

A direct free kick goes into the teams own goal what is given

A. Goal
B. In Direct Free kick
C. Corner
		
Click to expand...

Corner kick (whether it is an indirect or direct free kick)


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So just seen a random question

A direct free kick goes into the teams own goal what is given

A. Goal
B. In Direct Free kick
C. Corner
		
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was corner on the chase


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## Hobbit (Feb 2, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Cruel World. WBA sack Manger.  More surprising Chris Wilder is hot favourite. Hope Hobbit is not reading this. Probably siesta time in Andalucia.
		
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Was busy bowling in the inter-club league. Why would Wilder leave a massive club like the Boro to manage a village club like West Brom


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## Slime (Feb 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Managers like Gerrard , Potter and Howe imo have started to prove themselves*

*Lampard *- he has managed to get a couple of jobs because of who he is imo as opposed to what he did , Derby he didn’t seem to move them forward , Chelsea he got the job because he was an ex player and don’t think anyone else would touch them , did ok with a talented team but then dropped when given money . Everton have given him a go - like Howe at Newcastle I don’t think he is the right man for that job but we will see.
		
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Don't forget about Rooney, I think he's doing a superb job at Derby.
Obviously he's got a long way to go, but I think he's showing some promise.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			Don't forget about Rooney, I think he's doing a superb job at Derby.
Obviously he's got a long way to go, but I think he's showing some promise.
		
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Yes definitely- he has made a great start and have to give him a lot of kudos for sticking with Derby. Actually would like them to stay up.

Rooney in fairness is prob the person people thought wouldn’t be anywhere near managerial material but he is proving that wrong so far


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## pokerjoke (Feb 2, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Was busy bowling in the inter-club league. Why would Wilder leave a massive club like the Boro to manage a village club like West Brom

Click to expand...

Steve Bruce is favourite apparently according to Sky


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## Foxholer (Feb 2, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			The early signs are positive. Seems to be tactically astute and a good motivator, it's always been clear that he's a leader.

Will be interesting to see how he goes when it comes to spending some more cash in the summer, or if Villa have a good second half of the season, how he goes with increased expectation. Still v early days in his career.
		
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There's definitely 2 (at least) distinct areas of management that top ex-players like Rooney have to grapple with. And buying the right players is a key one. Frank Lampard is still learning that part of the role.


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## Golfmmad (Feb 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			None of that really ties in with my opinions. Potter seems to be a excellent manager, I'd happily have him at Spurs when Conte gets bored. Gerrard seems to have started well, and I think Lampard did well at Chelsea when bringing the youth players in and finishing top four under the transfer ban - just a little out of his depth when the ban was lifted and they gave him new players left, right and centre. I also rate Allardyce and Hodgson as sensible, pragmatic managers to bring in when you're down in the crap at the bottom of the league. Bruce less so, he seems a bit clueless at times.

Edit: To bring it back to what prompted this - it's only Howe I think has been massively overrated! Probably _because_ of the fact he's English. If he was foreign he'd be seen as naive rather than a plucky young English manager.
		
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Why is it that people think that they can lure Graham Potter away from Brighton. 
Why would he want to go anywhere else when he has every thing at Brighton - a great stadium, very supportive Chairman, Chief executive and back room staff, not forgetting the players and the squad being built for the future. 
I've already told Lord Tyrion to keep his hands off, now I'll say the same to you. 😉


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 2, 2022)

Think if anything Rooney has had one of the toughest starts to a managerial career with everything going on. It will be interesting to see if he stays on if Derby go down or is attracted to a bigger club then and what he is capable of when he has resources to buy and sell players and build his own squad to fit his managerial vision


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## Swango1980 (Feb 2, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Why is it that people think that they can lure Graham Potter away from Brighton.
Why would he want to go anywhere else when he has every thing at Brighton - a great stadium, very supportive Chairman, Chief executive and back room staff, not forgetting the players and the squad being built for the future.
I've already told Lord Tyrion to keep his hands off, now I'll say the same to you. 😉
		
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Salary?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Why is it that people think that they can lure Graham Potter away from Brighton.
Why would he want to go anywhere else when he has every thing at Brighton - a great stadium, very supportive Chairman, Chief executive and back room staff, not forgetting the players and the squad being built for the future.
I've already told Lord Tyrion to keep his hands off, now I'll say the same to you. 😉
		
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A step up - Brighton are doing well but there a lot bigger clubs that would be seen as a step for him - Spurs , Arsenal , West Ham , Everton etc

They could offer bigger wages , more money for transfer etc 

If he keeps going someone will come knocking soon


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Salary?
		
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This could be a 'what did the Romans do for us?' moment 🤣

Keep fighting @Golfmmad , other football fans are with you regarding what is happening at Brighton 👍


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## Golfmmad (Feb 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Salary?
		
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I knew someone would say that. 😉


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## Golfmmad (Feb 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A step up - Brighton are doing well but there a lot bigger clubs that would be seen as a step for him - Spurs , Arsenal , West Ham , Everton etc

They could offer bigger wages , more money for transfer etc

If he keeps going someone will come knocking soon
		
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He's already taken that step up. The clubs you mention are around the same level. 
I'm well aware that money talks but I don't think Potter is the type to go chasing money. 
I honestly think that he's happy where he is building for the future. 
In the fulness or time I think it would only be the England job that will entice him away. 
Just my opinion of course.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 2, 2022)

Some first half from Celtic


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			He's already taken that step up. The clubs you mention are around the same level.
I'm well aware that money talks but I don't think Potter is the type to go chasing money.
I honestly think that he's happy where he is building for the future.
In the fulness or time I think it would only be the England job that will entice him away.
Just my opinion of course.
		
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Sorry but those clubs are the next level up from Brighton , Brighton are doing well , drawing their way to safety but that’s the clubs main aim each season , staying solid in the Prem 

The likes of Spurs etc are huge clubs that are aiming first for CL and then to win trophies 

Brighton aren’t on the same level as the likes of Arsenal , Spurs etc


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## Rlburnside (Feb 2, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			He's already taken that step up. The clubs you mention are around the same level.
I'm well aware that money talks but I don't think Potter is the type to go chasing money.
I honestly think that he's happy where he is building for the future.
In the fulness or time I think it would only be the England job that will entice him away.
Just my opinion of course.
		
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Chris your going senile in your old age  mate 😂. 
Brighton the same level as Spurs that’s  madness. 

 Potter will be ambitious and he can’t do much better at Brighton, they’ve not got the spending power to compete at a higher level. 

As soon as the right offer comes along he will be off. 

Maybe to your first team Man United 😂


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Why is it that people think that they can lure Graham Potter away from Brighton.
Why would he want to go anywhere else when he has every thing at Brighton - a great stadium, very supportive Chairman, Chief executive and back room staff, not forgetting the players and the squad being built for the future.
I've already told Lord Tyrion to keep his hands off, now I'll say the same to you. 😉
		
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Jesus, calm down! I'm not actually in charge of hiring and firing at Spurs anyway so you've nothing to worry about from me. But he will obviously leave Brighton one day and I suspect it will be for a bigger club. 🤷🏻‍♂️ I hope you're not too heartbroken when it happens.


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## fundy (Feb 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but those clubs are the next level up from Brighton , Brighton are doing well , drawing their way to safety but that’s the clubs main aim each season , staying solid in the Prem

The likes of Spurs etc are huge clubs that are aiming first for CL and then to win trophies

Brighton aren’t on the same level as the likes of Arsenal , Spurs etc
		
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spurs, trophies? lol Phil youve gone a bit far there


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## Orikoru (Feb 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			spurs, trophies? lol Phil youve gone a bit far there 

Click to expand...

He only said _aiming _to win trophies to be fair. I guess our aim isn't the best though.


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## SteveW86 (Feb 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He only said _aiming _to win trophies to be fair. I guess our aim isn't the best though.
		
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Storm troopers have better aim


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## Golfmmad (Feb 2, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Chris your going senile in your old age  mate 😂.
Brighton the same level as Spurs that’s  madness.

Potter will be ambitious and he can’t do much better at Brighton, they’ve not got the spending power to compete at a higher level.

As soon as the right offer comes along he will be off.

Maybe to your first team Man United 😂
		
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OK fair point Roy but let's see what happens on Saturday. 👍


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## Rlburnside (Feb 3, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			OK fair point Roy but let's see what happens on Saturday. 👍
		
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Spurs have a better squad and I expect them to win at home. 

Let’s not forget Brighton haven’t got a goal scorer and have only won 6 games all season.  👍

Potter looks a good manager and will be a asset to a bigger club😂

No loyalty in football remember 👍


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## Swango1980 (Feb 3, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			He's already taken that step up. The clubs you mention are around the same level.
I'm well aware that money talks but I don't think Potter is the type to go chasing money.
I honestly think that he's happy where he is building for the future.
In the fulness or time I think it would only be the England job that will entice him away.
Just my opinion of course.
		
Click to expand...

You say clubs around Brighton are at the same level. Really? Hypothetically, what is likely to happen IF Potter were to leave Brighton? Assuming he is actually a very good manager, then they are likely to go downhill. So, Potter is a big reason why Brighton are where they are. If you were to compare Brighton with many of the clubs around them, but remove Potter from the equation, then you'd see Brighton are very unlikely at the level of the clubs around them. Then, put Potter back into the equation, but for another club, it is likely to move them even further ahead of Brighton (assuming he lives up to his current reputation).

So, moving to another club would simply show he has ambition to challenge even further towards the top of the table, and perhaps in Europe. And, as I said, from another personal point of view, he will be rewarded financially for it. The risk, of course, is that he doesn't get the results the new club expects. Will they give him the time or not? Mind you, even if that club were to let him go, I've no doubt he'd easily walk into another club, at least at Brighton's level. So, in that sense, it probably isn't much of a risk at all.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but those clubs are the next level up from Brighton , Brighton are doing well , drawing their way to safety but that’s the clubs main aim each season , staying solid in the Prem

The likes of Spurs etc are huge clubs that are aiming first for CL and then to win trophies

Brighton aren’t on the same level as the likes of Arsenal , Spurs etc
		
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Did you also call Spurs huge? 

Hugely disappointing maybe....


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## Bdill93 (Feb 3, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Storm troopers have better aim
		
Click to expand...

This absolutely killed me 

Steve - You just won the forum, well played


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## Golfmmad (Feb 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			You say clubs around Brighton are at the same level. Really? Hypothetically, what is likely to happen IF Potter were to leave Brighton? Assuming he is actually a very good manager, then they are likely to go downhill. So, Potter is a big reason why Brighton are where they are. If you were to compare Brighton with many of the clubs around them, but remove Potter from the equation, then you'd see Brighton are very unlikely at the level of the clubs around them. Then, put Potter back into the equation, but for another club, it is likely to move them even further ahead of Brighton (assuming he lives up to his current reputation).

So, moving to another club would simply show he has ambition to challenge even further towards the top of the table, and perhaps in Europe. And, as I said, from another personal point of view, he will be rewarded financially for it. The risk, of course, is that he doesn't get the results the new club expects. Will they give him the time or not? Mind you, even if that club were to let him go, I've no doubt he'd easily walk into another club, at least at Brighton's level. So, in that sense, it probably isn't much of a risk at all.
		
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You make some good points but I think he'll stay where he is. 👍


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## fundy (Feb 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Did you also call Spurs huge? 

Hugely disappointing maybe....
		
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Think thats a matter of perception, Spursy bring great joy to many fans over the years, just not their own


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2022)

Apart from being a Player/Manager, haven’t all the top managers started at lower levels?

Genuinely think we are being harsh and too judgemental on some of these “newer” managers.

Success and failure can be relative to the Club they are at.


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## BiMGuy (Feb 3, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Spurs have a better squad and I expect them to win at home.

Let’s not forget Brighton haven’t got a goal scorer and have only won 6 games all season.  👍

Potter looks a good manager and will be a asset to a bigger club😂

No loyalty in football remember 👍
		
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I really don’t understand this obsession with so called loyalty in football.

Why wouldn’t someone move to another job if they perceived it as a better opportunity or were being paid more? Every other profession would.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 3, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I really don’t understand this obsession with so called loyalty in football.

Why wouldn’t someone move to another job if they perceived it as a better opportunity or were being paid more? Every other profession would.
		
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Happy with Phillips leaving in the summer?


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## Bdill93 (Feb 3, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Apart from being a Player/Manager, *haven’t all the top managers started at lower levels*?

Genuinely think we are being harsh and too judgemental on some of these “newer” managers.

Success and failure can be relative to the Club they are at.
		
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Maybe yeah - but the best seem to be successful quite early on too

I understand thats hard to achieve in the prem in comparison to some foreign leagues. 

More interestingly - Klopp got Mainz promoted, maintained for a while and then relegated again. When he failed to secure promotion he left and his next job was Dortmund. 

Quite Howe-esque!


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## Rlburnside (Feb 3, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I really don’t understand this obsession with so called loyalty in football.

Why wouldn’t someone move to another job if they perceived it as a better opportunity or were being paid more? Every other profession would.
		
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I agree with all you said


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## BiMGuy (Feb 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Happy with Phillips leaving in the summer?
		
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Absolutely not. But because we’d be losing one of our best players.

It would be ridiculous to say he should stay to be loyal, when he could got to a club that would give him the opportunity to win trophies or earn more. 

Unless he goes to ManU or Liverpool Then I hope he fails miserably 😂


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## Bdill93 (Feb 3, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



*Absolutely not. But because we’d be losing one of our best players.*

It would be ridiculous to say he should stay to be loyal, when he could got to a club that would give him the opportunity to win trophies or earn more.

Unless he goes to ManU or Liverpool Then I hope he fails miserably 😂
		
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I think that hits the nail on the head... Its always the best player that isnt loyal but the fans hate to see go. 

You quickly move on though! Such is the game of football


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## BiMGuy (Feb 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I think that hits the nail on the head... Its always the best player that isnt loyal 

Click to expand...

There are many a player who will claim to have been loyal to their club. When the reality is, no one better wanted them 😆


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## Bdill93 (Feb 3, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			There are many a player who will claim to have been loyal to their club. When the reality is, no one better wanted them 😆
		
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Agbonlahor springs to mind


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## fundy (Feb 3, 2022)

Just when you think Arsenal couldnt negotiate any worse it turns out they are contributing to Aubameyangs wages still, to ensure the deal went through that took him off the wage bill

Utterly astounding how bad the club has been on negotiations the last 5+ years and destroyed so much asset value in the process


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Maybe yeah - but the best seem to be successful quite early on too

I understand thats hard to achieve in the prem in comparison to some foreign leagues.

More interestingly - Klopp got Mainz promoted, maintained for a while and then relegated again. When he failed to secure promotion he left and his next job was Dortmund.

Quite Howe-esque!
		
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Mainz gave Klopp a chance and he took 2 1/2 seasons to them getting promoted, very few teams show the manager that patience.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 3, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Mainz gave Klopp a chance and he took 2 1/2 seasons to them getting promoted, very few teams show the manager that patience.

Click to expand...

His record there was pretty good over his full tenure considering the size of the club - according to my quick Wikipedia search earlier - 109 wins, 78 draws and 83 losses


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			His record there was pretty good over his full tenure considering the size of the club - according to my quick Wikipedia search earlier - 109 wins, 78 draws and 83 losses
		
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It was great, got them to the top flight for the first time.

I’m complementing him, and Mainz for giving him the chance and then sticking with him.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			His record there was pretty good over his full tenure considering the size of the club - according to my quick Wikipedia search earlier - 109 wins, 78 draws and 83 losses
		
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Almost identical to Sam Allardyce's stats at Bolton. Klopp Won 40%, Drew 29% and Lost 31%. Allardyce Won 41%, Drew 28%, Lost 31%.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 3, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			It was great, got them to the top flight for the first time.

*I’m complementing him, and Mainz for giving him the chance and then sticking with him*.
		
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Yeah I got that this time


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## Bdill93 (Feb 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Almost identical to Sam Allardyce's stats at Bolton. Klopp Won 40%, Drew 29% and Lost 31%. Allardyce Won 41%, Drew 28%, Lost 31%.
		
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Did you just know that? What made you think of big sam?!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Almost identical to Sam Allardyce's stats at Bolton. Klopp Won 40%, Drew 29% and Lost 31%. Allardyce Won 41%, Drew 28%, Lost 31%.
		
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Irrelevant:
Mainz was Klopps first appt, Allardyce had had 4 previous appointments.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Yeah I got that this time 

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Not every post has a hidden agenda.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 3, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Irrelevant:
Mainz was Klopps first appt, Allardyce had had 4 previous appointments.
		
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It is not THAT irrelevant. I assumed that highlighting Klopp's stats was simply a way of saying he had a decent record. Therefore, if that is the case, is it any better than Allardyce's time at Bolton. I didn't realise there was a strict condition that it HAD to be the managers first appointment. What other conditions make it relevant. Does the stat only apply if the manager has nice teeth and floppy hair?

Or, are you just looking for yet another argument?


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## GB72 (Feb 3, 2022)

I know that this is a naive question and one that I will be probably be humiliating myself with but when did it change from managers moving to a club and working on a formation and tactics to suit the players that were there and develop existing talent to managers having to be given a number of transfer windows to buy in the squad of players that play the style and formation that he wants to impose on the team. 

With regards Potter, I can see why he would stay at Brighton for the time being. The sort of clubs that may show interest at the moment seem to be basket cases behind the scenes whereas Brigthon seems pretty stable in that regard.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It is not THAT irrelevant. I assumed that highlighting Klopp's stats was simply a way of saying he had a decent record. Therefore, if that is the case, is it any better than Allardyce's time at Bolton. I didn't realise there was a strict condition that it HAD to be the managers first appointment. What other conditions make it relevant. Does the stat only apply if the manager has nice teeth and floppy hair?

Or, are you just looking for yet another argument?
		
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So 2 people answer you and you only come back at me! Back on ignore!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I know that this is a naive question and one that I will be probably be humiliating myself with but when did it change from managers moving to a club and working on a formation and tactics to suit the players that were there and develop existing talent to managers having to be given a number of transfer windows to buy in the squad of players that play the style and formation that he wants to impose on the team.
		
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That is a very good question. I think the advent of the PL changed matters because it dropped in a big pile of cash to all clubs involved. Suddenly, developing a team became less necessary as you could just buy one. You could try to be the club that went gently but if all the others around you were buying their team then you could be left behind. You can still get that in the lower leagues but it is harder the higher up you get.

There is definitely a mindset change to the point you make and to answer the question, I'd go mid to late 90's for other teams to follow the big boys in this change.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 3, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			So 2 people answer you and you only come back at me! Back on ignore!
		
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You were the only one who said it was irrelevant. But, if you feel better by ignoring people who have a decent comeback to your post, go ahead


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## Swango1980 (Feb 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Did you just know that? What made you think of big sam?! 

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I used Wiki as well, just thought of Big Sam as he isn't exactly one that seems to be highly regarded by fans 

If we stuck to just first clubs only (pauls imposed restrictions), Klopp would have a similar record to Steve Bruce, Frank Lampard and Roy Keane (well, Roy Keane lost 41%, but had a slightly higher win rate of 42%), but not as good as Eddie Howe or Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

To be honest, I'd imagine most managers who have been in the game a long time, even these less fancied ones, have had a generally decent start to their management careers. It is probably what gave them the momentum to get more jobs after being moved on from their first club, and even if they have bad spells at other clubs, the fact they have had some track record of "relative" success, other clubs will give them a chance.


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## GB72 (Feb 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is a very good question. I think the advent of the PL changed matters because it dropped in a big pile of cash to all clubs involved. Suddenly, developing a team became less necessary as you could just buy one. You could try to be the club that went gently but if all the others around you were buying their team then you could be left behind. You can still get that in the lower leagues but it is harder the higher up you get.

There is definitely a mindset change to the point you make and to answer the question, I'd go mid to late 90's for other teams to follow the big boys in this change.
		
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It does sort of confuse me when clubs hire in World Class Manager 'A'. He comes in and says 'I play a 4-5-1 system and I need these players'. Response 'but we have just spent 3 years developing a squad based on playing 5-3-2 and been recruiting expensive players for that. Can you not work with these professional sportsmen and adapt your tactics to fit in what we have got. I am sure that you train and develop these players a bit as well'. World Class Manager 'No, we will only play the one way that I use at every club, you will buy me the players I need as until then I will be playing what we have out of position in my formation and we will not be great'. Club gets out chequebook. 

Again, you know I am not a massive football follower but clubs get in a new manager and the results are not great and the pundits are all 'well he needs a few transfer windows'. To my mind, that is not the case, if he cannot get what he has got playing better than the last bloke then he is not as good a manager.


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## fundy (Feb 3, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I know that this is a naive question and one that I will be probably be humiliating myself with but when did it change from managers moving to a club and working on a formation and tactics to suit the players that were there and develop existing talent to managers having to be given a number of transfer windows to buy in the squad of players that play the style and formation that he wants to impose on the team.

With regards Potter, I can see why he would stay at Brighton for the time being. The sort of clubs that may show interest at the moment seem to be basket cases behind the scenes whereas Brigthon seems pretty stable in that regard.
		
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with Arsenal it came very slowly as the transition from the George Graham era to the Wenger era. Wenger inherited a great defense and worked on ways to extend there careers whilst adding a few big names attacking wise (eg Bergkamp). As it progressed Wenger for many years mainly bought young and mainly cheap with a view to developing with the odd bigger purchase. This started to change towards the end of his tenure as money was thrown at problems (money that had come from huge increases in tv revenues mainly), partly as a reaction to the amount the likes of Chelsea were by now spending. As things continued to get worse more money got badly thrown at the problem every 6 mths and still is being. The ironic part is that any strength Arsenal have currently is through the younger players that have come through the ranks rather than the hundreds of millions theyve frittered away time after time 

2 big differences now from 5+ years ago for me, is that most clubs now have money to spend (through tv monies and foreign owners) and moreso the last year or two is that the English clubs have more buying power than almost all the continental teams (bar a handful) 

with respect to Potter, think Ive said this before, think hes on a journey with Brighton and that the jobs hes been linked with recently (Spurs, Arsenal, Everton, Villa etc) arent enough of an upgrade to take the risk of jumping ship and the bigger jobs that may be seen as worth jumping for he hasnt been offered (and he doesnt appear to be keen to move just for more money). Be interesting to see if he does go if one of the current top 3 were to come asking. Winning stuff with Brighton as the end of the project hes been on be far more fulfilling than buying it at a so called bigger club and expect a far better working environment. not as if Tony Bloom hasnt got money, he just spends it more efficiently than most others thats all!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2022)

GB72 said:



			It does sort of confuse me when clubs hire in World Class Manager 'A'. He comes in and says 'I play a 4-5-1 system and I need these players'. Response 'but we have just spent 3 years developing a squad based on playing 5-3-2 and been recruiting expensive players for that. Can you not work with these professional sportsmen and adapt your tactics to fit in what we have got. I am sure that you train and develop these players a bit as well'. World Class Manager 'No, we will only play the one way that I use at every club, you will buy me the players I need as until then I will be playing what we have out of position in my formation and we will not be great'. Club gets out chequebook.

Again, you know I am not a massive football follower but clubs get in a new manager and the results are not great and the pundits are all 'well he needs a few transfer windows'. To my mind, that is not the case, if he cannot get what he has got playing better than the last bloke then he is not as good a manager.
		
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I wouldn't disagree. I think it also means that the club have not done their due dilegence when hiring as if the manager is tied to a different formation to the one your club likes and will not change then they are not right for your club. There is certainly more rigidty in that sense now.

I think you are more of a rugby man. Does that not apply to coaches there as well to an extent? Coaches have a style and they ask the players to play to that style? Do you think Eddie Jones adapts to his players for example, Warren Gatland or even Shaun Edwards the same, or do they expect them to bend? (my rugby knowledge is limited so this is a genuine question and I am asking about coaches who seem to me to be quite rigid in their styles)


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## GB72 (Feb 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I wouldn't disagree. I think it also means that the club have not done their due dilegence when hiring as if the manager is tied to a different formation to the one your club likes and will not change then they are not right for your club. There is certainly more rigidty in that sense now.

I think you are more of a rugby man. Does that not apply to coaches there as well to an extent? Coaches have a style and they ask the players to play to that style? Do you think Eddie Jones adapts to his players for example, Warren Gatland or even Shaun Edwards the same, or do they expect them to bend? (my rugby knowledge is limited so this is a genuine question and I am asking about coaches who seem to me to be quite rigid in their styles)
		
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I think that you have a slightly off example there in that those managers are at international level and so with no recruitment cost, they can pick a style and fill the spots with suitable players. Then again, you look at Shaun Edwards. The french have not changed the playing staff so much as he has taught those that are there better tactics and techniques and the difference is showing. My team, the Tigers have a few new players in but out new management set up is working with a large number of the same players and have moved from bottom to top of the league. The main differences, the attitude of the manager, out conditioning coach and the wonderful Mr Sinfield dealing with defence. 

Equally, rugby does not have as much felxibility in selection. You still pick to fill the same 15 positions and it is not as if you can pick more wingers or an extra centre. Yes, you can pick types of players but there is little flexibility in where they play. 

That said, rugby is also not hampered by transfer fees and so if a player does not fit, he can be invited to go and find another club and we are not losing out on a transfer fee, just on wages until he does. 

I guess from a footballing point of view, the confusion is based on managers not being expected to make improvements with what they have got, the expectation has become that they there is less pressure to do well until they have had a chance to buy half a new team and, on the back of that, the impression that improvement can only come from buying new players and not developing the existing ones. Managers seem to have become judged by what they buy rather than how they train and now the develop and what tactical knowledge they have. That is not managing to me.


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## Orikoru (Feb 3, 2022)

GB72 said:



			It does sort of confuse me when clubs hire in World Class Manager 'A'. He comes in and says 'I play a 4-5-1 system and I need these players'. Response 'but we have just spent 3 years developing a squad based on playing 5-3-2 and been recruiting expensive players for that. Can you not work with these professional sportsmen and adapt your tactics to fit in what we have got. I am sure that you train and develop these players a bit as well'. World Class Manager 'No, we will only play the one way that I use at every club, you will buy me the players I need as until then I will be playing what we have out of position in my formation and we will not be great'. Club gets out chequebook.

Again, you know I am not a massive football follower but clubs get in a new manager and the results are not great and the pundits are all 'well he needs a few transfer windows'. To my mind, that is not the case, if he cannot get what he has got playing better than the last bloke then he is not as good a manager.
		
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I think there are managers with different approaches, and it all depends on the club as well. I think Pochettino was a manager who worked with what we had at the time and got a lot more than the sum of those parts. Whereas Jose and Conte who we've gone for recently are more the other kind that you speak of, who want to bring in ready-made players. The first type of managers are harder to come by, plus the latter are a quicker fix for clubs that have the money for it. And as we said at the top of this, clubs don't have the patience to wait and see if their new manager is the type who can build over 3 years or whatever. They want immediate success (and immediate pay-off). Those kind of managers who can improve players over time are the likes of Potter who end up at the likes of Brighton. Just like Poch made his name at Southampton before moving to Spurs. The lower and mid-table clubs will take the gamble on these managers as they don't have the money for the immediate kind anyway.

Edit: another point in this though is that players seem to be less flexible than they used to be. You used to have a midfielder who could perform a number of roles, now you have a defensive midfielder, or a box-to-box, or an attacking midfielder, and you need different players to perform each of those apparently. Back in the day you'd have full backs like Gary Neville and Stuart Pearce who could play centre back if needed, nowadays, you cannot really imagine Trent Alexander-Arnold or Reece James playing centre back can you?


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## GB72 (Feb 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think there are managers with different approaches, and it all depends on the club as well. I think Pochettino was a manager who worked with what we had at the time and got a lot more than the sum of those parts. Whereas Jose and Conte who we've gone for recently are more the other kind that you speak of, who want to bring in ready-made players. The first type of managers are harder to come by, plus the latter are a quicker fix for clubs that have the money for it. And as we said at the top of this, clubs don't have the patience to wait and see if their new manager is the type who can build over 3 years or whatever. They want immediate success (and immediate pay-off). Those kind of managers who can improve players over time are the likes of Potter who end up at the likes of Brighton. Just like Poch made his name at Southampton before moving to Spurs. The lower and mid-table clubs will take the gamble on these managers as they don't have the money for the immediate kind anyway.

Edit: another point in this though is that players seem to be less flexible than they used to be. You used to have a midfielder who could perform a number of roles, now you have a defensive midfielder, or a box-to-box, or an attacking midfielder, and you need different players to perform each of those apparently. Back in the day you'd have full backs like Gary Neville and Stuart Pearce who could play centre back if needed, nowadays, you cannot really imagine Trent Alexander-Arnold or Reece James playing centre back can you?
		
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It is a good point that there does appear to be less flexibility in players these days. Not sure if that is down to the club, their training or the players themselves but the days of being defined as a defender, midfielder or forward are long gone.


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## fundy (Feb 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think there are managers with different approaches, and it all depends on the club as well. I think Pochettino was a manager who worked with what we had at the time and got a lot more than the sum of those parts. Whereas Jose and Conte who we've gone for recently are more the other kind that you speak of, who want to bring in ready-made players. The first type of managers are harder to come by, plus the latter are a quicker fix for clubs that have the money for it. And as we said at the top of this, clubs don't have the patience to wait and see if their new manager is the type who can build over 3 years or whatever. They want immediate success (and immediate pay-off). Those kind of managers who can improve players over time are the likes of Potter who end up at the likes of Brighton. Just like Poch made his name at Southampton before moving to Spurs. The lower and mid-table clubs will take the gamble on these managers as they don't have the money for the immediate kind anyway.

Edit: another point in this though is that players seem to be less flexible than they used to be. You used to have a midfielder who could perform a number of roles, now you have a defensive midfielder, or a box-to-box, or an attacking midfielder, and you need different players to perform each of those apparently. Back in the day you'd have full backs like Gary Neville and Stuart Pearce who could play centre back if needed, nowadays, you cannot really imagine Trent Alexander-Arnold or Reece James playing centre back can you?
		
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Dont agree on the last part. Reece James has played centre half this year, at Arsenal both full backs can play centre half, most attacking players are able to play central or wide. Stuart Dallas has played pretty much everywhere bar in goal for Leeds lol. Traore played wingback, out wide and centre forward before heading to Spain. Plenty of players flexible enough to do, more a case of clubs having bigger squads meaning they are asked to do so less often imo

(Be a good job at Arsenal as with how few we have left most of them are gonna be out of position at some point rest of this season lol)


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## Orikoru (Feb 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Dont agree on the last part. Reece James has played centre half this year, at Arsenal both full backs can play centre half, most attacking players are able to play central or wide. Stuart Dallas has played pretty much everywhere bar in goal for Leeds lol. Traore played wingback, out wide and centre forward before heading to Spain. Plenty of players flexible enough to do, more a case of clubs having bigger squads meaning they are asked to do so less often imo

(Be a good job at Arsenal as with how few we have left most of them are gonna be out of position at some point rest of this season lol)
		
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James has filled in on the right of a back three, it's not quite the same as the way Pearce used to do it in a back four. But I'm talking the way a manager will come and say, "I want to get rid of this ball-winning holding player, and bring in a deep-lying playmaker - whereas back in the day they would just train the player to play a different way rather than replace them. Someone like Patrick Vieira could have played defensively, or more attacking, or a bit of everything. Then look at Paul Pogba today, who can seemingly only play on the left side of a three-man midfield and nothing else. I blame Makelele, he has a lot to answer for.


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## fundy (Feb 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			James has filled in on the right of a back three, it's not quite the same as the way Pearce used to do it in a back four. But I'm talking the way a manager will come and say, "I want to get rid of this ball-winning holding player, and bring in a deep-lying playmaker - whereas back in the day they would just train the player to play a different way rather than replace them. Someone like Patrick Vieira could have played defensively, or more attacking, or a bit of everything. Then look at Paul Pogba today, who can seemingly only play on the left side of a three-man midfield and nothing else. I blame Makelele, he has a lot to answer for.
		
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dont get me wrong there are some inflexible, typecast players, but theres plenty with more than one string to their bow, even Kane could play in midfield if needed 

look at the standard man city set, full backs play either side, centre halves cover for full backs if injured and anyone in midfield forward could end up anywhere on the field pretty much, defensive mids cover at centre half, only have 1 striker so they play him out wide etc

going back to the side Viera played in at Arsenal, thy were actually one of the lest inflexible in terms of players covering other roles i can think off albeit the midfielders were expected to be box to box and do all the role in one


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2022)

So West Brom sack their manager due to his defensive style of player and appoint 




Steve Bruce 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60238539


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## 4LEX (Feb 3, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I knew someone would say that. 😉
		
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He must also be sick and tired of coaching the side, dominating games and seeing chances missed because the board won't back him with a top striker? I can't watch Brighton anymore as it's always the same. Create 10 chances and take none or 1 at best. He's better than finishing mid table with an xG of CL level sides and an actual GS of relegation sides like Watford.


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			with Arsenal it came very slowly as the transition from the George Graham era to the Wenger era. Wenger inherited a great defense and worked on ways to extend there careers whilst adding a few big names attacking wise (eg Bergkamp). As it progressed Wenger for many years mainly bought young and mainly cheap with a view to developing with the odd bigger purchase. This started to change towards the end of his tenure as money was thrown at problems (money that had come from huge increases in tv revenues mainly), partly as a reaction to the amount the likes of Chelsea were by now spending. As things continued to get worse more money got badly thrown at the problem every 6 mths and still is being. The ironic part is that any strength Arsenal have currently is through the younger players that have come through the ranks rather than the hundreds of millions theyve frittered away time after time

2 big differences now from 5+ years ago for me, is that most clubs now have money to spend (through tv monies and foreign owners) and moreso the last year or two is that the English clubs have more buying power than almost all the continental teams (bar a handful)

with respect to Potter, think Ive said this before, think hes on a journey with Brighton and that the jobs hes been linked with recently (Spurs, Arsenal, Everton, Villa etc) arent enough of an upgrade to take the risk of jumping ship and the bigger jobs that may be seen as worth jumping for he hasnt been offered (and he doesnt appear to be keen to move just for more money). Be interesting to see if he does go if one of the current top 3 were to come asking. Winning stuff with Brighton as the end of the project hes been on be far more fulfilling than buying it at a so called bigger club and expect a far better working environment. not as if Tony Bloom hasnt got money, he just spends it more efficiently than most others thats all!
		
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Bruce Rioch signed Bergkamp, not wenger.


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## fundy (Feb 3, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Bruce Rioch signed Bergkamp, not wenger.
		
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Yeah course he did lol

David Dein signed Bergkamp, not rocket science on whose advice


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## 4LEX (Feb 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Yeah course he did lol

David Dein signed Bergkamp, not rocket science on whose advice
		
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Spot on. Wenger was offered the job way before he took it. Rioch was a stopgap and all signings were made in proxy by Wenger with Dein doing the deals. Didn't work out too bad.


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## Jensen (Feb 4, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			There are many a player who will claim to have been loyal to their club. When the reality is, no one better wanted them 😆
		
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Matt Le Tissier !!!!


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## Papas1982 (Feb 4, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Matt Le Tissier !!!!
		
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TBF, even he admitted that in this era he'd have left. 

Back then he was getting probably 80% of what a bigger club would give him so stayed where he was idolised.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 4, 2022)

Man United need to get their stories straight

Ralf R says Lingard asked for a couple of days off to get his head right

Lingard tweets to say hes fine and the club told him to have time off.

Not the first time Ralf has just made stuff up to the media, all a bit weird if you ask me! You'd think "the biggest club in the world" could at least sing from the same hymn sheet


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## Swango1980 (Feb 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Man United need to get their stories straight

Ralf R says Lingard asked for a couple of days off to get his head right

Lingard tweets to say hes fine and the club told him to have time off.

Not the first time Ralf has just made stuff up to the media, all a bit weird if you ask me! You'd think "the biggest club in the world" could at least sing from the same hymn sheet
		
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I'm not sure these claims or entirely contradictory, nor even that controversial. It just depends how both sides want to spin the discussion, particularly Lingard in front of his social media following.

I think everyone would agree that Lingard is upset behind the scenes. On the face of it, there have been plenty of opportunities to give him a good run out, especially as the players on the pitch have not exactly been great and the fact he did very well at West Ham. However, Ole, and now Ralf, have not fancied him at all. There must be some reason behind it. Maybe he is a bad trainer, or his attitude stinks?

However, it is easy to see how a conversation between club or player concluded some time off for him would be good. Maybe it was the clubs idea, even if they came to that idea based on how Jesse expressed his feelings and they felt it would be for the best. To Ralf, he simply explained that Jesse requested this time off, whether it was offered by the club or instigated by Jesse. Jesse has a social media profile to keep squeaky clean, so he has come out and said he is happy. Of course he is going to say that (in reality, he may be devastated he didn't get a move, but he is hardly going to tell his followers that now that he has to stay at the club for the rest of the season).

Either way, why would the default opinion be that Ralf is making stuff up? Even if there was a clear disagreement, is there not a possibility that Jesse is making stuff up?

I've felt this for a long time, but there is more and more evidence that there could be a stinking attitude amongst some groups of players within the club. Possibly happy to backstab staff, and maybe even fellow players. We've had Pogba running to his agent every time he felt he wasn't worshipped 100%. The likes of Martial and Rashford who have a face of thunder more often that not. The accusations against Greenwood, if true, make you wonder what he is like behind the scenes (with rumours that a lot of players have not liked him for a while). All of this is just guesswork on my part, as I've no idea what things are like behind the scenes or how any investigation will unfold. But, it could be that there is an awful culture within the dressing room, and some players are too far gone. Maybe Jesse is one of those players who causes problems within the team?


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## Jimaroid (Feb 4, 2022)

Watched Lampard's first press conference last night and it was a hugely refreshing to do so. I know he's got a lot to prove but he's totally won me over and I can honestly say this is the first time I've listened to a new manager and actually come away feeling like they can do us good. He struck a great balance of passion, criticism and honesty.

Obviously he's got to turn the ship around but for the first time I feel like there's someone in charge that's not steering us towards an iceberg.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm not sure these claims or entirely contradictory, nor even that controversial. It just depends how both sides want to spin the discussion, particularly Lingard in front of his social media following.

I think everyone would agree that Lingard is upset behind the scenes. On the face of it, there have been plenty of opportunities to give him a good run out, especially as the players on the pitch have not exactly been great and the fact he did very well at West Ham. However, Ole, and now Ralf, have not fancied him at all. There must be some reason behind it. Maybe he is a bad trainer, or his attitude stinks?

However, it is easy to see how a conversation between club or player concluded some time off for him would be good. Maybe it was the clubs idea, even if they came to that idea based on how Jesse expressed his feelings and they felt it would be for the best. To Ralf, he simply explained that Jesse requested this time off, whether it was offered by the club or instigated by Jesse. Jesse has a social media profile to keep squeaky clean, so he has come out and said he is happy. Of course he is going to say that (in reality, he may be devastated he didn't get a move, but he is hardly going to tell his followers that now that he has to stay at the club for the rest of the season).

Either way, *why would the default opinion be that Ralf is making stuff up*? Even if there was a clear disagreement, is there not a possibility that Jesse is making stuff up?

I've felt this for a long time, but there is more and more evidence that there could be a stinking attitude amongst some groups of players within the club. Possibly happy to backstab staff, and maybe even fellow players. We've had Pogba running to his agent every time he felt he wasn't worshipped 100%. The likes of Martial and Rashford who have a face of thunder more often that not. The accusations against Greenwood, if true, make you wonder what he is like behind the scenes (with rumours that a lot of players have not liked him for a while). All of this is just guesswork on my part, as I've no idea what things are like behind the scenes or how any investigation will unfold. But, it could be that there is an awful culture within the dressing room, and some players are too far gone. Maybe Jesse is one of those players who causes problems within the team?
		
Click to expand...

Its just all messy isnt it. Liverpool and City just dont seem to have this same culture that you describe. Sounds like United is full of individuals and really not a connected unit that are buying in to a bigger picture. Needs a real overhaul. 

Bit in bold - because its the second time he has said something in a media conference that has then been poo poo'd by a player. It seems to me that players just dont respect him enough as hes only there in the short term.

Reports when Lingard was at West Ham suggested he was a very polarising individual who lifted the mood of the players and was a really positive guy... Id understand that dropping somewhat when going back to united and then not getting game time, but he does seem to be a very fun personality.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2022)

Only 9 of this weekends 16 FA Cup matches will have VAR in use, 
From the BBC:

“The cut-off is clear. It is in operation at Premier League grounds only.

Effectively, only Premier League clubs have licences due to the infrastructure, workforce and costs that are involved.

The match cost is £9,250, which is shared equally by the competing clubs from the gate receipts.”

Didn’t realise the costs would be shared.

Imo, it should be the same for all ties for all rounds in the competition.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Its just all messy isnt it. Liverpool and City just dont seem to have this same culture that you describe. Sounds like United is full of individuals and really not a connected unit that are buying in to a bigger picture. Needs a real overhaul.

Bit in bold - *because its the second time he has said something in a media conference that has then been poo poo'd by a player. *It seems to me that players just dont respect him enough as hes only there in the short term.

Reports when Lingard was at West Ham suggested he was a very polarising individual who lifted the mood of the players and was a really positive guy... Id understand that dropping somewhat when going back to united and then not getting game time, but he does seem to be a very fun personality.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but the first time was the player in question not Anthony Martial?

To be honest, I pay very little attention to what players say on social media, compared to what happens in reality. But, I probably would put Martial close to the bottom of the list in terms of who I'd trust.


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## Junior (Feb 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Its just all messy isnt it. Liverpool and City just dont seem to have this same culture that you describe. *Sounds like United is full of individuals and really not a connected unit that are buying in to a bigger picture. Needs a real overhaul.*

Bit in bold - because its the second time he has said something in a media conference that has then been poo poo'd by a player. It seems to me that players just dont respect him enough as hes only there in the short term.

Reports when Lingard was at West Ham suggested he was a very polarising individual who lifted the mood of the players and was a really positive guy... Id understand that dropping somewhat when going back to united and then not getting game time, but he does seem to be a very fun personality.
		
Click to expand...

This is exactly right.  RR is doing a job but it's not like flicking a light switch when contracts are involved.  I think he's doing the right thing and needs time.  

JL is an interesting one.  Arguably deserves more game time, but then so does DVB and Sancho.   JL strikes me as the kind of person who's the life and soul of a room but deep down is riddled with Anxiety.  The kind of person who needs people around him to tell him how amazing he is.   

For me, like I've said on here before.  The siging of Ronaldo is the thing that upset the apple cart and has reduced opportunities for the younger players like JL, Sancho, DVB and until recently Greenwood.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2022)

Question, does RR, or anyone at  United really, know what Uniteds best side or close to it is currently?  I guess theres a few less to choose from now with Martial and Van de Beek leaving, Lingaard clearly not being picked and Greenwoods situation

seems 2 options at either full back, 3 into 2 at centre half, plenty of CM options that dont seem to work (add in the return of Pogba to this too), where does Fernandes play and who are the other attacking options alongside Ronaldo? Cavani seems to be sidelined and the rest seem to be rotating trying to find some partnerships that work?

if I guessed United starting XI for the next league game Id be surprised if I got more than 7 or 8 right


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## Swango1980 (Feb 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Question, does RR, or anyone at  United really, know what Uniteds best side or close to it is currently?  I guess theres a few less to choose from now with Martial and Van de Beek leaving, Lingaard clearly not being picked and Greenwoods situation

seems 2 options at either full back, 3 into 2 at centre half, plenty of CM options that dont seem to work (add in the return of Pogba to this too), where does Fernandes play and who are the other attacking options alongside Ronaldo? Cavani seems to be sidelined and the rest seem to be rotating trying to find some partnerships that work?

if I guessed United starting XI for the next league game Id be surprised if I got more than 7 or 8 right
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I think it was fairly clear what Rangnick felt was United's best side, before the break anyway.

De Gea
Dalot (Ole preferred Wan Bissaka)
Telles (Ole preferred Shaw)
Maguire
Varane
Fred
McTomminay
Rashford
Greenwood
Fernandes
Ronaldo

Elanga came in on the left, as Rashford was out of form and just back from injury, but I suspect he ultimately still prefers Rashford, or prepared to give him the chance. He'd rotate a few in and out, but those players appeared to be HIS preferred best 11. Clearly Greenwood could be out for a while (or forever), so hopefully Sancho will hopefully now get the chance he is looking for.


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## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Only 9 of this weekends 16 FA Cup matches will have VAR in use,
From the BBC:

“The cut-off is clear. It is in operation at Premier League grounds only.

Effectively, only Premier League clubs have licences due to the infrastructure, workforce and costs that are involved.

The match cost is £9,250, which is shared equally by the competing clubs from the gate receipts.”

Didn’t realise the costs would be shared.

Imo, it should be the same for all ties for all rounds in the competition.
		
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What if someone who was in the Premier League last season - and therefore had all the VAR stuff installed presumably - is now in the Championship buts gets a home tie in the cup? Will they not use it even though all the equipment is in place??


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			What if someone who was in the Premier League last season - and therefore had all the VAR stuff installed presumably - is now in the Championship buts gets a home tie in the cup? Will they not use it even though all the equipment is in place??
		
Click to expand...

I think B’Mouth did a few years back, but if they no longer have the license they can’t.🤷‍♂️


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## Bdill93 (Feb 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			To be fair, I think it was fairly clear what Rangnick felt was United's best side, before the break anyway.

De Gea
Dalot (Ole preferred Wan Bissaka)
Telles (Ole preferred Shaw)
Maguire
Varane
Fred
McTomminay
Rashford
Greenwood
Fernandes
Ronaldo

Elanga came in on the left, as Rashford was out of form and just back from injury, but I suspect he ultimately still prefers Rashford, or prepared to give him the chance. He'd rotate a few in and out, but those players appeared to be HIS preferred best 11. Clearly Greenwood could be out for a while (or forever), so hopefully Sancho will hopefully now get the chance he is looking for.
		
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As a united fan when you read that team, does it get you excited?

Not saying there arent good players, really want to see Sancho flourish, but man you guys are lacking something special and that fear you used to. Possibly playing 2 CDM's is the cause?

As an Villa fan I read that line up and think we can compete. I never expect anything against City/ Liverpool/ Chelsea - just hope we give them a game! The only thing that scares me is that you always seem to win penos against us, of which Fernandes or Ronaldo dont miss many!


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## Swango1980 (Feb 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			As a united fan when you read that team, does it get you excited?

Not saying there arent good players, really want to see Sancho flourish, but man you guys are lacking something special and that fear you used to. Possibly playing 2 CDM's is the cause?

As an Villa fan I read that line up and think we can compete. I never expect anything against City/ Liverpool/ Chelsea - just hope we give them a game! The only thing that scares me is that you always seem to win penos against us, of which Fernandes or Ronaldo dont miss many!
		
Click to expand...

It is certainly not exciting, especially when you look at the core of the team. Fred and McTomminay, no matter how hard they work, will never consistently be able to control the temp of a football match. If we had two quality players in there (with McTomminay and/or Fred as squad players), potentially they can help join up defense and attack. Be able to effectively bring the wingers into the game, and provide easy balls for shaky defenders to pass to. We've obviously a lot of players out of form and low on confidence, so my "hope" is that strengthening that area of the pitch would improve the performances of players who have shown potential in the past.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It is certainly not exciting, especially when you look at the core of the team. Fred and McTomminay, no matter how hard they work, will never consistently be able to control the temp of a football match. If we had two quality players in there (with McTomminay and/or Fred as squad players), potentially they can help join up defense and attack. Be able to effectively bring the wingers into the game, and provide easy balls for shaky defenders to pass to. We've obviously a lot of players out of form and low on confidence, so my "hope" is that strengthening that area of the pitch would improve the performances of players who have shown potential in the past.
		
Click to expand...

I do rate McTomminay to be fair, just think hes maybe a 6th-10th place prem team player rather than top 4 talent - but as you say, would be a great squad player. 

What we all need really is to clone Kante and sign him up


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Man United need to get their stories straight

Ralf R says Lingard asked for a couple of days off to get his head right

Lingard tweets to say hes fine and the club told him to have time off.

Not the first time Ralf has *just made stuff up* to the media, all a bit weird if you ask me! You'd think "the biggest club in the world" could at least sing from the same hymn sheet
		
Click to expand...

You actually know he's 'just made stuff up', fair enough, I just didn't realise you were there!


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Only 9 of this weekends 16 FA Cup matches will have VAR in use,
From the BBC:

“The cut-off is clear. It is in operation at Premier League grounds only.

Effectively, only Premier League clubs have licences due to the infrastructure, workforce and costs that are involved.

The match cost is £9,250, which is shared equally by the competing clubs from the gate receipts.”

Didn’t realise the costs would be shared.

Imo, it should be the same for all ties for all rounds in the competition.
		
Click to expand...

I agree and I mentioned it before. You need to have a level playing field and it should be available to all (surely the FA should have sufficient to be able to support the non-PL sides to have this for the game) or not used at all


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree and I mentioned it before. You need to have a level playing field and it should be available to all (surely the FA should have sufficient to be able to support the non-PL sides to have this for the game) or not used at all
		
Click to expand...


how does having Var in one game and not in another make it an unfair playing field?

all it should do is supposedly improve decisions in the games that have it whilst not changing them in the games that dont?

ultimately the decisions in the games with and without var have zero affect on each other


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)

Menagerie at the ready ........................................ just hope I need them!


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			Menagerie at the ready ........................................ just hope I need them!
		
Click to expand...


almost sound confident


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)

........................... almost!


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			Menagerie at the ready ........................................ just hope I need them!
		
Click to expand...

Can we have a cat shouting goal this evening please? Preferably a fluffy one. Thank you.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can we have a cat shouting goal this evening please? Preferably a fluffy one. Thank you.
		
Click to expand...


do we have any boro fans on here


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can we have a cat shouting goal this evening please? Preferably a fluffy one. Thank you.
		
Click to expand...

I'll see what I can do, let's just hope we score!


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)




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## IanM (Feb 4, 2022)

Oops.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2022)

please tell me you have a squirrell for that


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			please tell me you have a squirrell for that 

Click to expand...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2022)

Where’s @Hobbit when you need him!


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 40979

Click to expand...


Stafford > squirrell


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## Hobbit (Feb 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Where’s @Hobbit when you need him!
		
Click to expand...

He’s watching the footie


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)

Especially for Colch.


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## Hobbit (Feb 4, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 40980

Click to expand...

Noooooooo


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree and I mentioned it before. You need to have a level playing field and it should be available to all (surely the FA should have sufficient to be able to support the non-PL sides to have this for the game) or not used at all
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think decisions in other games are a factor, but a lower league team could go out on a dodgy decision at home that they would of got and gone through or at least got a replay at a PL ground. But even replays are denied them again this season!

If Officials are trusted with the decisions everywhere else, why not trust them at PL grounds.


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)




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## fundy (Feb 4, 2022)

Anthony Taylor


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## Billysboots (Feb 4, 2022)

That’s just a farce. VAR and officials spend so long trying to justify decisions but where is the common sense? Accidental my arse, that’s the clearest handball you will ever see. If he doesn’t handle it, there’s no goal.

We might as well pack up and go home now.


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			That’s just a farce. VAR and officials spend so long trying to justify decisions but where is the common sense? Accidental my arse, that’s the clearest handball you will ever see. If he doesn’t handle it, there’s no goal.

We might as well pack up and go home now.
		
Click to expand...

Don't worry, Billy.
I think Utd will score two more tonight.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			Don't worry, Billy.
I think Utd will score two more tonight.
		
Click to expand...


you only think youll score twice in the penalty shoot out


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## Fromtherough (Feb 4, 2022)

Defo a handball. Not sure of intent though. And not really arsed! UTB!


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			you only think youll score twice in the penalty shoot out 

Click to expand...

That's all we'll need.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			That's all we'll need. 

Click to expand...


boy i hope this goes to pelanties now


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489713638806069251


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489713638806069251
View attachment 40982

Click to expand...

Obsessed 🤦‍♂️


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2022)

How have Utd spent all that money & Phil Jones is still there 🤯


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)

Oh.


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## BrianM (Feb 4, 2022)

Man Utd are a hard watch, regardless of the result....


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## IanM (Feb 4, 2022)

Weekend accumulator nobbled on a Friday night!🤣🤣🤣🤯


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 4, 2022)

Oh heck. How is tonight Hobbit!!


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## GreiginFife (Feb 4, 2022)

Sky rockets in flight… 

Wonder where that’ll come down


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2022)

anyone got a picture of a Hobbit screaming GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			That's all we'll need. 

Click to expand...

You were saying...


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## pokerjoke (Feb 4, 2022)

C/L it is then


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			You were saying... 

Click to expand...


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## Hobbit (Feb 4, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Oh heck. How is tonight Hobbit!!
		
Click to expand...




fundy said:



			anyone got a picture of a Hobbit screaming GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!! 

Click to expand...

YESSS!!!


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## Fromtherough (Feb 4, 2022)

That is what the FA cup is all about.


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## GreiginFife (Feb 4, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			C/L it is then
		
Click to expand...

Coors Light?


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## Hobbit (Feb 4, 2022)




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## greenone (Feb 4, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			C/L it is then
		
Click to expand...


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2022)




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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

So another season without a trophy for the Mancs - think it’s nearly 10 years since their last title.

The Prem teams not doing so well at the moment in the FA Cup

West Ham losing at Kidderminster- cracking dive from Yarmelenko there 

Chelsea being held by Plymouth


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## fundy (Feb 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So another season without a trophy for the Mancs - think it’s nearly 10 years since their last title.

The Prem teams not doing so well at the moment in the FA Cup

West Ham losing at Kidderminster- cracking dive from Yarmelenko there

Chelsea being held by Plymouth
		
Click to expand...

So this is the fun you lot used to get from AFTV lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489712823932530688


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			So this is the fun you lot used to get from AFTV lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489712823932530688

Click to expand...

Those people are embarrassing- Liverpool have some Irish guy - they must know people watch them to laugh at them


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## fundy (Feb 5, 2022)

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

add another few million to Rices price tag.....


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2022)

Back at the home of the champions. 3 generations of City here and Missis T. Treated me dad to the soft seats 😉😁


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Those people are embarrassing- Liverpool have some Irish guy - they must know people watch them to laugh at them
		
Click to expand...

You thought the Liverpool one was “Comedy gold” until Stu La disapproved 🤦‍♂️😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Feb 5, 2022)

I saw the first half at the wife's grandads who's a west ham fan

Got home in time for rice's goal 

Dublin making excuses for the players with the pitch etc which whilst I understand that it will affect players they also should be good enough to adapt their game 

A pro golfer could turn up at an average course and still put together a good game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/fo...fe8a9cd774c11a4faab6c0&pinned_post_type=share

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## Billysboots (Feb 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*So another season without a trophy for the Mancs* - think it’s nearly 10 years since their last title.

The Prem teams not doing so well at the moment in the FA Cup

West Ham losing at Kidderminster- cracking dive from Yarmelenko there

Chelsea being held by Plymouth
		
Click to expand...

There’s still the Champion’s League, Phil 😉

In all seriousness, United should have steamrollered Boro last night. Yet again we were sloppy in front of goal and, to be blunt, got what we deserved.

*BUT, *the Boro equaliser was a farce. I know rules are rules, but the rule makers have disappeared so far up their own backsides they are in danger of turning themselves inside out.

I understand the rule. If a handball is accidental then it’s only called in the event the player using the hand then goes on to score. But referees and other officials simply must be allowed to apply common sense. If that ball had not been handled last night then Boro do not score. It really was that simple a call, Anthony Taylor should have been allowed to make it, without VAR, and applying a common sense judgement.

The rules, and the application of them, have become an embarrassment to the game.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 5, 2022)

Swear that's zoumas bad knee 

Just take him off. Play with 10 .. if we go out we go out why risk him further? Could really ruin his career


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## pauljames87 (Feb 5, 2022)

Disappointed. Thought we were going to set a record of being the first premier League team knocked out by non league


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## BiMGuy (Feb 5, 2022)

How can a player standing directly in front of the keeper not be considered as interfering with play 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## Hobbit (Feb 5, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			There’s still the Champion’s League, Phil 😉

In all seriousness, United should have steamrollered Boro last night. Yet again we were sloppy in front of goal and, to be blunt, got what we deserved.

*BUT, *the Boro equaliser was a farce. I know rules are rules, but the rule makers have disappeared so far up their own backsides they are in danger of turning themselves inside out.

I understand the rule. If a handball is accidental then it’s only called in the event the player using the hand then goes on to score. But referees and other officials simply must be allowed to apply common sense. If that ball had not been handled last night then Boro do not score. It really was that simple a call, Anthony Taylor should have been allowed to make it, without VAR, and applying a common sense judgement.

The rules, and the application of them, have become an embarrassment to the game.
		
Click to expand...

 Rules are rules, and you can’t pick and choose them. Accidental handball used to be ‘allowed,’ then got ’unallowed,’ and is now ’allowed’ again. Wonder what your thoughts would have been if it had been the other way round?

Perhaps it’s also time for an independent timekeeper. 2 mins 30 secs injury time at the end of the second period of extra time. As the commentator alluded, Fergie’s watch still lives at Old Trafford.


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## Billysboots (Feb 5, 2022)

Hobbit said:



 Rules are rules, and you can’t pick and choose them. Accidental handball used to be ‘allowed,’ then got ’unallowed,’ and is now ’allowed’ again. Wonder what your thoughts would have been if it had been the other way round?

Perhaps it’s also time for an independent timekeeper. 2 mins 30 secs injury time at the end of the second period of extra time. As the commentator alluded, Fergie’s watch still lives at Old Trafford.

Click to expand...

You’re missing my point, Brian, that being that the rules have become so confusing, and change so often, that common sense has become a thing of the past.

If United had scored that goal my views would be exactly the same - yes, seriously!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			There’s still the Champion’s League, Phil 😉

In all seriousness, United should have steamrollered Boro last night. Yet again we were sloppy in front of goal and, to be blunt, got what we deserved.

*BUT, *the Boro equaliser was a farce. I know rules are rules, but the rule makers have disappeared so far up their own backsides they are in danger of turning themselves inside out.

I understand the rule. If a handball is accidental then it’s only called in the event the player using the hand then goes on to score. But referees and other officials simply must be allowed to apply common sense. If that ball had not been handled last night then Boro do not score. It really was that simple a call, Anthony Taylor should have been allowed to make it, without VAR, and applying a common sense judgement.

The rules, and the application of them, have become an embarrassment to the game.
		
Click to expand...

It was a clear handball that gave the player an advantage- it was a shocking decision. Still amazed how they didn’t disallow it

in other poor news - Elanga was racial abused on social media last night after missing the penalty.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a clear handball that gave the player an advantage- it was a shocking decision. Still amazed how they didn’t disallow it

in other poor news - Elanga was racial abused on social media last night after missing the penalty.
		
Click to expand...

It can't be accidental attacking handball because the handball wasn't by the goal scorer. 

It must be deliberate OR the arm position not justifiable by the player's movement. 

So under the current law they had no reason to disallow it.


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## Hobbit (Feb 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a clear handball that gave the player an advantage- it was a shocking decision. Still amazed how they didn’t disallow it
		
Click to expand...

It wasn’t a handball, as per the rules that were brought in this season. If the rules were different I’d say handball. It’s that simple.

Did Watmore move his arm to control the ball? No. Did Watmore score directly from that contact? No. Therefore, as per the rules, it wasn’t handball. Any bleating about it is exactly that, bleating.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2022)

Fulham looking very very good. Like to narrow the field. City not knocked one over the top to Foden yet. Let’s see how second half pans out.


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## Hobbit (Feb 5, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			You’re missing my point, Brian, that being that the rules have become so confusing, and change so often, that common sense has become a thing of the past.

If United had scored that goal my views would be exactly the same - yes, seriously!
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately common sense is open to interpretation whereas, thankfully, a black and white rule isn’t. The rule is clear, and it’s up to the players to play until the whistle goes. 2 seasons ago you would have had a valid argument but under the new rule you haven’t.

Coincidently, I was talking to a retired EFL ref a couple of hours ago. His view was very matter of fact, almost questioning why someone would expect it to be handball.

Edit; now if you ask me do I agree with the rule… no I don’t. For me, make it any contact with the hand or arm is handball. No need for referee interpretations. But whilst the rule is there as it is, play by that rule.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			It wasn’t a handball, as per the rules that were brought in this season. If the rules were different I’d say handball. It’s that simple.

Did Watmore move his arm to control the ball? No. *Did Watmore score directly from that contact? *No. Therefore, as per the rules, it wasn’t handball. Any bleating about it is exactly that, bleating.
		
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Surely by controlling the ball with his hand which then allowed him to pass directly to the guy who scored the goal means they scored because of the handball - the ball was going out 




That’s a handball by the definition above 

If that player is a defender then it’s a penalty


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## Hobbit (Feb 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely by controlling the ball with his hand which then allowed him to pass directly to the guy who scored the goal means they scored because of the handball - the ball was going out

View attachment 40993


That’s a handball by the definition above

If that player is a defender then it’s a penalty
		
Click to expand...

He didn’t control the ball with his hand, the ball hit his forearm. A still photograph doesn’t show arm/hand movement which could suggest ‘control.’

And the rule you have posted also states “unnaturally bigger.” His arms were in that position before the ball bounced up and hit him. There was no intentional movement. 

The (new)rule was clearly explained last night by the commentary team. I don’t agree with the rule but I do agree with its application last night.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely by controlling the ball with his hand which then allowed him to pass directly to the guy who scored the goal means they scored because of the handball - the ball was going out

View attachment 40993


That’s a handball by the definition above

If that player is a defender then it’s a penalty
		
Click to expand...

Here you go:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489717750348013575


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 5, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			In all seriousness, United should have steamrollered Boro last night. Yet again we were sloppy in front of goal and, to be blunt, got what we deserved.

*BUT, *the Boro equaliser was a farce. I know rules are rules, but the rule makers have disappeared so far up their own backsides they are in danger of turning themselves inside out.

I understand the rule. If a handball is accidental then it’s only called in the event the player using the hand then goes on to score. But referees and other officials simply must be allowed to apply common sense. If that ball had not been handled last night then Boro do not score. It really was that simple a call, Anthony Taylor should have been allowed to make it, without VAR, and applying a common sense judgement.

The rules, and the application of them, have become an embarrassment to the game.
		
Click to expand...

Can't really disagree, however it's obvious many of te Utd players obviously fancied a rest otherwise how else  do you explain the misses, including the Ronaldo pen flop?


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## Billysboots (Feb 5, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Can't really disagree, however it's obvious many of te Utd players obviously fancied a rest otherwise how else  do you explain the misses, including the Ronaldo pen flop?
		
Click to expand...

Oh, I totally agree! United should have been over the hills and far away long before the equaliser.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2022)

🎶It’s a grand old team to play for🎶

Frankie Lampard’s Blue & White Army.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 5, 2022)

That’ll do. What a different performance that was. Plenty of weakness still there but moving the ball around confidently, playing forward and chasing everything down. It’s about time.

Nice result, now let’s do it again.


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## AmandaJR (Feb 5, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			🎶It’s a grand old team to play for🎶

Frankie Lampard’s Blue & White Army.

Click to expand...

Always had a soft spot for Frank - hope he does well for you.


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## fundy (Feb 5, 2022)

Plenty of sides be happy with Burnley 0 Watford 0, except for the 2 sides playing i expect


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## Fade and Die (Feb 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Disappointed. Thought we were going to set a record of being the first premier League team knocked out by non league
		
Click to expand...

Our squad quality and depth has really been highlighted today. We barely laid a glove on them in 90 minutes.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2022)

Reality check at the Etihad. Didn't want to go to Wembley anyway!!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 5, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Our squad quality and depth has really been highlighted today. We barely laid a glove on them in 90 minutes.
		
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I agree about the squad quality. The first half (in which we were out played entirely) was the second string defense with noble and kral in the middle.. got no where near them

come second half we bring on dawson, cresswell, rice, soucek and in the end fornals .. so our stronger line up was much better and scored twice with no return .. the reserves are awful . especially diop my god


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## Bigfoot (Feb 5, 2022)

Having been at the Harriers v West Ham game today, it shows how a team that plays all the time can hold a team that is rotated and that Declan Rice gets in some good positions!
I’m disappointed that Harriers didn’t go through but we really showed our ability. Sometimes it’s not skill that is lacking, just opportunities


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely by controlling the ball with his hand which then allowed him to pass directly to the guy who scored the goal means they scored because of the handball - the ball was going out

View attachment 40993


That’s a handball by the definition above

If that player is a defender then it’s a penalty
		
Click to expand...

Yes I would say that’s handball.
But the rules they have messed with the past couple of seasons are the ones VAR make a mess of most.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Reality check at the Etihad. Didn't want to go to Wembley anyway!!
		
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Homer just got back half an hour ago and still trying to dry out. Bloody hole in the roof above my head 😖😳

Anyway, Fulham were very very good. They knocked it around better than most teams I have seen at City. Tosin at centre half was an excellent buy from the City academy. When you get promoted to the Prem. If you keep that team, that’s a mid table Prem team. I was impressed. There downfall. The gap between the front line and back four was as narrow as I have seen from a team. Leaves loads of space at the back. City did have a few chances, but a penalty, OG which was going wide and a goal from a corner well let’s say you never got battered.


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## fundy (Feb 5, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Homer just got back half an hour ago and still trying to dry out. Bloody hole in the roof above my head 😖😳

Anyway, Fulham were very very good. They knocked it around better than most teams I have seen at City. Tosin at centre half was an excellent buy from the City academy. When you get promoted to the Prem. If you keep that team, that’s a mid table Prem team. I was impressed. There downfall. The gap between the front line and back four was as narrow as I have seen from a team. Leaves loads of space at the back. City did have a few chances, but a penalty, OG which was going wide and a goal from a corner well let’s say you never got battered.
		
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If only city could afford to fix the roof eh Tashy


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I would say that’s handball.
But the rules they have messed with the past couple of seasons are the ones VAR make a mess of most.
		
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Ave seen the handball that’s being discussed and I think it’s a shocker of a decision. However has as been explained they followed the letter of the ( handball ) law. But if that was a defender that had handled that and leathered the ball away would it of been a penalty. 🤔


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489548972633038849
Man Utd dealing with the situation well

I wonder how many Mendy shirts City had to exchange


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			If only city could afford to fix the roof eh Tashy 

Click to expand...

I was bogged off bigstyle, those in front and behind. Bone dry. We get there and padded seat is wet through. A quick wipe over and down I am sat then drip, sock on my head. It was like bloody Chinese water torture. 😖

On a massive positive, I had steak pud, chips and curry sauce. *Irish curry sauce. *Sweet lord where have you been all my life.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Homer just got back half an hour ago and still trying to dry out. Bloody hole in the roof above my head 😖😳

Anyway, Fulham were very very good. They knocked it around better than most teams I have seen at City. Tosin at centre half was an excellent buy from the City academy. When you get promoted to the Prem. If you keep that team, that’s a mid table Prem team. I was impressed. There downfall. The gap between the front line and back four was as narrow as I have seen from a team. Leaves loads of space at the back. City did have a few chances, but a penalty, OG which was going wide and a goal from a corner well let’s say you never got battered.
		
Click to expand...

That's good news (performance not the roof). To be honest we've been found out in the championship holding a narrow line and something Silva will need to look at. The best PL sides especially City and Liverpool will exploit that every time. I am worried whether we've learned the mistakes of buying half a new side every time we go up and would like to see us only buy PL standard players in key positions. Clearly we're need to replace Carvahol once he goes to Anfield which will be a big hole and I'd like to see a decent striker to support Mitrovic and not rely on him as much again


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 5, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Ave seen the handball that’s being discussed and I think it’s a shocker of a decision. However has as been explained they followed the letter of the ( handball ) law. But if that was a defender that had handled that and leathered the ball away would it of been a penalty. 🤔
		
Click to expand...

By the laws it’s not handball.
But that will be given next week.
The handball rule is a joke now and has been for a while.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			That's good news (performance not the roof). To be honest we've been found out in the championship holding a narrow line and something Silva will need to look at. The best PL sides especially City and Liverpool will exploit that every time. I am worried whether we've learned the mistakes of buying half a new side every time we go up and would like to see us only buy PL standard players in key positions. Clearly we're need to replace Carvahol once he goes to Anfield which will be a big hole and I'd like to see a decent striker to support Mitrovic and not rely on him as much again
		
Click to expand...

To be honest, he should stay at Fulham, but I think his contract is short. The defensive line is very high and it will be found out. Fulham played with 4 at the back and Ave lost count how many prem teams have 5 and defend deep.
That said, as a Fulham fan your in a happy place with that team.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			To be honest, he should stay at Fulham, but I think his contract is short. The defensive line is very high and it will be found out. Fulham played with 4 at the back and Ave lost count how many prem teams have 5 and defend deep.
That said, as a Fulham fan your in a happy place with that team.
		
Click to expand...

He'll be out of contract in the summer and I'd love the club to give him even a 2 year deal if we go up. Let him get some PL experience behind him. I wouldn't want him to be another Sessignon and be so full of potential and get lured to a big side and disappear. Even if he went to Liverpool and they loaned him back for a year wouldn't be a bad compromise. I think Klopp is pretty good with the youngsters so it may not be too bad. He is definitely a real prospect


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			By the laws it’s handball.
But that will be given next week.
The handball rule is a joke now and has been for a while.
		
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The reason I ask re defenders handling it in those circumstance. In the past there have been laws that are not applied to attacking and defending teams in the same way. I honestly do not know why the handball rule and others have been made to be complicated


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 5, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			The reason I ask re defenders handling it in those circumstance. In the past there have been laws that are not applied to attacking and defending teams in the same way. I honestly do not know why the handball rule and others have been made to be complicated
		
Click to expand...

Yes typo by me I meant is not handball.
What happened to natural silhouette .
He couldn’t get his hand any further from his body???


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489548972633038849
Man Utd dealing with the situation well

I wonder how many Mendy shirts City had to exchange
		
Click to expand...

Poor post this imo


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## SteveW86 (Feb 5, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Poor post this imo
		
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You think what Utd are doing is poor? Or Phil posting it is poor?


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 5, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			You think what Utd are doing is poor? Or Phil posting it is poor?
		
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The Mandy/City dig was poor imo.
Think it’s good what UTD are doing 👍🏻


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Disappointed. Thought we were going to set a record of being the first premier League team knocked out by non league
		
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Sorry, we’ve already got that achievement safely locked away in the hall of shame. Luton knocked us out a few years ago, we had Harry Kane on loan and he was useless. I certainly wouldn’t have bet on what has come since!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Sorry, we’ve already got that achievement safely locked away in the hall of shame. Luton knocked us out a few years ago, we had Harry Kane on loan and he was useless. I certainly wouldn’t have bet on what has come since!
		
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Were you premier League at the time?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 6, 2022)

A day away, but still gobsmacked about how these, presumably well paid, officials are doing to the game, and their decisions on handball. A rule that is updated regularly, so they think watertight decisions can be made using VAR.

It is a farce, as others have said. The justification: it was accidental and someone else scores. That is the biggest insult to fans, they must think we are naive.

Genuinely, how many handball are deliberate? I remember Diego Maradona, Thierry Henry for France and Suarez for Uruguay. More often than not, it is accidental and the player has just got themselves into a bad position. Deliberate handball should have no relevance, except for whether a player is carded or not.

The key factor HAS to be whether the hand ball made a significant difference in the move. In Utd game, if ball had brushed his arm near his side, and it didn't make much difference to the move, then I could accept the goal standing. However, it is clear to all the ball hitting his hand made a big difference (imagine he was closer to goal line, and ball was about to go out of play until it hit his hand, and VAR allowed the goal to stand). The officials are paid enough, so they should be able to made responsible for making subjective calls. I mean, they need to anyway for fouls and red cards. By trying to make handball so black and white (where millions of handball scenarios can potentially exist), they just look like fools.

Also, if the ref had given the handball immediately, do you think he would have been roundly criticised for giving it? Or, would his bosses say he was absolutely correct in giving the handball decision? I suspect they would rightly back him 100%, which would just go to show what a farce it is.

The other big issue with this is that I think the referee will instinctively NOT give an infringement in a very dangerous situation, and assume VAR will clear things up. The ref might have seen the handball, and simply given it 10 years ago. But, now they are frightened of giving it, and then possibly.be shown to be wrong and criticised for not letting VAR do its job. The ref might have seen this on Friday. If so, he should be allowed to let play continue, but once goal is scored, clarify to VAR he thinks there was a handball, and ask VAR if he can review it. If he did miss it, then VAR should ask him to review it.


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## Foxholer (Feb 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			A day away, but still gobsmacked about how these, presumably well paid, officials are doing to the game, and their decisions on handball. A rule that is updated regularly, so they think watertight decisions can be made using VAR.

It is a farce, as others have said. The justification: it was accidental and someone else scores. That is the biggest insult to fans, they must think we are naive.

Genuinely, how many handball are deliberate? I remember Diego Maradona, Thierry Henry for France and Suarez for Uruguay. More often than not, it is accidental and the player has just got themselves into a bad position. Deliberate handball should have no relevance, except for whether a player is carded or not.

The key factor HAS to be whether the hand ball made a significant difference in the move. In Utd game, if ball had brushed his arm near his side, and it didn't make much difference to the move, then I could accept the goal standing. However, it is clear to all the ball hitting his hand made a big difference (imagine he was closer to goal line, and ball was about to go out of play until it hit his hand, and VAR allowed the goal to stand). The officials are paid enough, so they should be able to made responsible for making subjective calls. I mean, they need to anyway for fouls and red cards. By trying to make handball so black and white (where millions of handball scenarios can potentially exist), they just look like fools.

Also, if the ref had given the handball immediately, do you think he would have been roundly criticised for giving it? Or, would his bosses say he was absolutely correct in giving the handball decision? I suspect they would rightly back him 100%, which would just go to show what a farce it is.
		
Click to expand...

Here ar the applicable rules for Handball:
<start quote>
For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit. Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.

It is an offence if a player:

deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
touches the ball with their hand/armwhen it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
scores in the opponents' goal:
directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental

<end quote>
Which one is applicable to that incident? None as far as I can tell!

FWIW. Another clause could be added that would cover incidents like this in future along the lines of 
'touches the ball with their hand/arm, even if accidental, within the opponent's Penalty Area'


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## Swango1980 (Feb 6, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Here ar the applicable rules for Handball:
<start quote>
For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit. Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.

It is an offence if a player:

deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
scores in the opponents' goal:
directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental

<end quote>
Which one is applicable to that incident?
		
Click to expand...

The second bullet point. However, one could then argue it is irrelevant as his arm was in a natural position at that moment.

That is a huge part of the point. It is the law itself, not the officials necessarily applying the law. On Friday, the players arm was miles away from his body, it hit his hand and it had a significant impact on the play. The written law needs to be able to recognise that as handball. It is clear to me, and many other fans pundits alike (not just restricted to Utd fans either). But, maybe we really all are just mugs. 

And, I am sure we could find many incidents were handball HAS been given for similar situations, and there has been no outcry about the decision.


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## Foxholer (Feb 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The second bullet point. *However, one could then argue it is irrelevant as his arm was in a natural position at that moment.*

That is a huge part of the point. It is the law itself, not the officials necessarily applying the law. On Friday, the players arm was miles away from his body, it hit his hand and it had a significant impact on the play. The written law needs to be able to recognise that as handball. It is clear to me, and many other fans pundits alike (not just restricted to Utd fans either). But, maybe we really all are just mugs.

And, I am sure we could find many incidents were handball HAS been given for similar situations, and there has been no outcry about the decision.
		
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Well, they (correctly imo) were of a different opinion to you. I believe they ruled along the lines of your 2nd sentence - in bold.
It does strike me as a bit farcical to have the 3rd clause without similar 'protection' from such a situation as happenned.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 6, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Well, they (correctly imo) were of a different opinion to you. I believe they ruled along the lines of your 2nd sentence - in bold.
It does strike me as a bit farcical to have the 3rd clause without similar 'protection' from such a situation as happenned.
		
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To clarify, you believe the rules (as they are now apparently) should allow those incidents to be legal?

If so, interesting. If you were to go back and analyse any awarded handball ever given, or review any that happen from now, I bet very few could be considered deliberate. Very few will result in that player directly scoring. Very few the player would have put their hand in an unnatural position to increase chances of using arm. So, if intent was a strict primary criteria for handball, then theoretically handballs should be rarely ever given.

I find it crazy a players hand could be stretched about as far away from their body (even if they hadn't positioned it deliberately), the ball strikes their hand, puts the ball in their path and allows them to play a simply ball across goal for their player to score goal. Not considered handball. Yet, if the player shot themselves and scores, it IS handball. Surely it is either bloomin handball or it isn't.


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## Hobbit (Feb 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			A day away, but still gobsmacked about how these, presumably well paid, officials are doing to the game, and their decisions on handball. A rule that is updated regularly, so they think watertight decisions can be made using VAR.

It is a farce, as others have said. The justification: it was accidental and someone else scores. That is the biggest insult to fans, they must think we are naive.

Genuinely, how many handball are deliberate? I remember Diego Maradona, Thierry Henry for France and Suarez for Uruguay. More often than not, it is accidental and the player has just got themselves into a bad position. Deliberate handball should have no relevance, except for whether a player is carded or not.

The key factor HAS to be whether the hand ball made a significant difference in the move. In Utd game, if ball had brushed his arm near his side, and it didn't make much difference to the move, then I could accept the goal standing. However, it is clear to all the ball hitting his hand made a big difference (imagine he was closer to goal line, and ball was about to go out of play until it hit his hand, and VAR allowed the goal to stand). The officials are paid enough, so they should be able to made responsible for making subjective calls. I mean, they need to anyway for fouls and red cards. By trying to make handball so black and white (where millions of handball scenarios can potentially exist), they just look like fools.

Also, if the ref had given the handball immediately, do you think he would have been roundly criticised for giving it? Or, would his bosses say he was absolutely correct in giving the handball decision? I suspect they would rightly back him 100%, which would just go to show what a farce it is.

The other big issue with this is that I think the referee will instinctively NOT give an infringement in a very dangerous situation, and assume VAR will clear things up. The ref might have seen the handball, and simply given it 10 years ago. But, now they are frightened of giving it, and then possibly.be shown to be wrong and criticised for not letting VAR do its job. The ref might have seen this on Friday. If so, he should be allowed to let play continue, but once goal is scored, clarify to VAR he thinks there was a handball, and ask VAR if he can review it. If he did miss it, then VAR should ask him to review it.
		
Click to expand...

I think most of your post typifies what is wrong with the current rule, i,e. It’s full of subjectivity. And the problem with subjectivity is there will always be some that think otherwise.

Just picking two bits from your post, “made a big difference…“ The use of ”big” is subjective. How big is big? “Brushed his arm near his side…” is that a 4” gap, a 5” gap or a 6” gap? We’re back to subjectivity and one person thinking differently than the next.

I agree that the ref does have to make subjective calls, was it a foul, is it a yellow/red, but why not make some things easy for him by making it black or white. Did the ball hit the arm/hand? Yes = handball. Never mind if the arm was against the body or not — if it hits the arm, wherever it is, the direction of the ball is changed.

On Friday night the ref made a subjective call, and said it’s a goal. VAR made a subjective call, and said it’s a goal. Ian Wright made a subjective call, and said it’s a goal. Roy Keane made a subjective call, and said it’s a goal. And Danny Mills on MOTD has just said it’s a goal. Their interpretation of the new rule. Are they right or are you right? It’s a subjective opinion, and you’re both right but the one person whose opinion matters is the ref.

I think they got it right but I think the rule is awful. In terms of fairness and natural justice, it’s appalling.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			I think most of your post typifies what is wrong with the current rule, i,e. It’s full of subjectivity. And the problem with subjectivity is there will always be some that think otherwise.

Just picking two bits from your post, “made a big difference…“ The use of ”big” is subjective. How big is big? “Brushed his arm near his side…” is that a 4” gap, a 5” gap or a 6” gap? We’re back to subjectivity and one person thinking differently than the next.

I agree that the ref does have to make subjective calls, was it a foul, is it a yellow/red, but why not make some things easy for him by making it black or white. Did the ball hit the arm/hand? Yes = handball. Never mind if the arm was against the body or not — if it hits the arm, wherever it is, the direction of the ball is changed.

On Friday night the ref made a subjective call, and said it’s a goal. VAR made a subjective call, and said it’s a goal. Ian Wright made a subjective call, and said it’s a goal. Roy Keane made a subjective call, and said it’s a goal. And Danny Mills on MOTD has just said it’s a goal. Their interpretation of the new rule. Are they right or are you right? It’s a subjective opinion, and you’re both right but the one person whose opinion matters is the ref.

I think they got it right but I think the rule is awful. In terms of fairness and natural justice, it’s appalling.
		
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What’s funny Bri is the same people who whined about the old rule whine about the new rule.

The change was brought in after the amount of complaints about the old rule.

Not sure if you remember this from last season:


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## Foxholer (Feb 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			To clarify, you believe the rules (as they are now apparently) should allow those incidents to be legal?
...
		
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That's what they currently do!!
As it happens, I too believe such incidents should be _made_ a breach, But that would require a rule amendment! Referees must make rulings according to facts and the current rules, not through some sort of invented justification. It's up to a different area of the game to consider whether rule changes are required. Don't blame Refs for applying currently!


Swango1980 said:



			...
If so, interesting. If you were to go back and analyse any awarded handball ever given, or review any that happen from now, I bet very few could be considered deliberate. Very few will result in that player directly scoring. Very few the player would have put their hand in an unnatural position to increase chances of using arm. So, if intent was a strict primary criteria for handball, then theoretically handballs should be rarely ever given.
...
		
Click to expand...

That's your opinion. Lobby the appropriate authorities for a rule change, but don't complain about the correct application of existing ones!


Swango1980 said:



			...
I find it crazy a players hand could be stretched about as far away from their body (even if they hadn't positioned it deliberately), the ball strikes their hand, puts the ball in their path and allows them to play a simply ball across goal for their player to score goal. Not considered handball. _Yet, if the player shot themselves and scores, it IS handball._ Surely it is either bloomin handball or it isn't.
		
Click to expand...

See my comment immediately above!
I'm pretty certain, with no actual evidence, that that clause was added because of a previous incident. I've suggested another (any time it strikes a hand in the opponent's Penalty Area is handball) that would cover the one under discussion.

Just don't lambast Refs for applying existing rules correctly!


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 6, 2022)

OMG, shouldnt the direction of dislike be directed at the UTD players who missed the pens, sitters in open play and were just plain rubbish?
Stop trying to find an excuse for their loss, it was down to the players and them only. Everything else is just marginal. The players didn't want it and proved it.


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Were you premier League at the time?
		
Click to expand...

Yes. That is a pre-requisite of the statistic 😂


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## Slime (Feb 6, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Stop trying to find an excuse for their loss, it was down to the players and them only. Everything else is just marginal. *The players didn't want it and proved it.*

Click to expand...


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Yes. That is a pre-requisite of the statistic 😂
		
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Doesn't count then 🤣
Football began in 1992 lol


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Doesn't count then 🤣
Football began in 1992 lol
		
Click to expand...

It was 2013, really awful performance, playing grim football under Hughton

Luton deserved to win, at Carrow road too 🤦‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			It was 2013, really awful performance, playing grim football under Hughton

Luton deserved to win, at Carrow road too 🤦‍♂️
		
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Wonder what the BBC were on about then as apparently happened in 1989 aswell 

Maybe the highest ranked club?


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Wonder what the BBC were on about then as apparently happened in 1989 aswell

Maybe the highest ranked club?
		
Click to expand...

Was it 6th tier rather than non-league? Kidderminster are one below conference


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2022)

Harvey Elliott - 👏👏👏👏 what a player he is going to be


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

Many probably won’t like this, because it hands decision making back to referees (remember those days?), but for me we can’t simply rely on a black and white list of rules because football, much like life, isn’t black and white.

The solution to the ridiculous handball conundrum is not that difficult, but will upset those who like everything to be written down and with a formal framework. Quite simply, if it is more likely than not that a ball striking hand, deliberate or otherwise, made a material difference to the immediate outcome, then it is handball. 

My point since Friday evening has been that the current ruling is too rigid, does not allow for any common sense to be applied, and leads to the farcical situation at Old Trafford. Try to set to one side the team(s) involved, the fact that United missed half a dozen gilt edged chances and so on, and think about the rule. The rule is a joke, and should not allow for a player to immediately pass to a team mate for that team mate to score a legitimate goal, if a handball would have been given had the offending player actually scored the goal himself. That sort of rule is so embarrassingly laughable it has no place in any sport.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 6, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			That's what they currently do!!
As it happens, I too believe such incidents should be _made_ a breach, But that would require a rule amendment! Referees must make rulings according to facts and the current rules, not through some sort of invented justification. It's up to a different area of the game to consider whether rule changes are required. Don't blame Refs for applying currently!

That's your opinion. Lobby the appropriate authorities for a rule change, but don't complain about the correct application of existing ones!

See my comment immediately above!
I'm pretty certain, with no actual evidence, that that clause was added because of a previous incident. I've suggested another (any time it strikes a hand in the opponent's Penalty Area is handball) that would cover the one under discussion.

Just don't lambast Refs for applying existing rules correctly!
		
Click to expand...

I wasn't lambasting refs. You misinterpreted my post, or I worded it poorly? I understand why the ref on pitch didn't give it (he maybe didn't even see it or wasn't sure). I understand VAR can't intervene. Because VAR becomes impotent in such a situation due to way law is written.

My annoyance is with the law itself.

Up to and including the point at which ball hit his hand, had that player scored it is a handball. If he passes to his mate, it is not a handball.

That is crazy. How can the rules decide on whether a handball is a handball based on what happens afterwards?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 6, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			OMG, shouldnt the direction of dislike be directed at the UTD players who missed the pens, sitters in open play and were just plain rubbish?
Stop trying to find an excuse for their loss, it was down to the players and them only. Everything else is just marginal. The players didn't want it and proved it.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure anyone is making excuses for the United players. They should have won easily, and they didn't. That's on them. The manager said it, the pundits said it and most of the United fans I have heard have said it.

That doesn't mean you can't criticise a farcical incident if they occur.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Was it 6th tier rather than non-league? Kidderminster are one below conference
		
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Maybe it was! Either way what a record to hold lol always next year lol


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## davemc1 (Feb 6, 2022)

Fa Cup 5th round, what’s this? 😆
Is there even a tie of the round? 😳

Thought Kelleher got lucky, and hope Diaz is ok, but other than that a near perfect day for us


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## chrisd (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Many probably won’t like this, because it hands decision making back to referees (remember those days?), but for me we can’t simply rely on a black and white list of rules because football, much like life, isn’t black and white.

The solution to the ridiculous handball conundrum is not that difficult, but will upset those who like everything to be written down and with a formal framework. Quite simply, if it is more likely than not that a ball striking hand, deliberate or otherwise, made a material difference to the immediate outcome, then it is handball.

My point since Friday evening has been that the current ruling is too rigid, does not allow for any common sense to be applied, and leads to the farcical situation at Old Trafford. Try to set to one side the team(s) involved, the fact that United missed half a dozen gilt edged chances and so on, and think about the rule. The rule is a joke, and should not allow for a player to immediately pass to a team mate for that team mate to score a legitimate goal, if a handball would have been given had the offending player actually scored the goal himself. That sort of rule is so embarrassingly laughable it has no place in any sport.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on.


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			Fa Cup 5th round, what’s this? 😆
Is there even a tie of the round? 😳

Thought Kelleher got lucky, and hope Diaz is ok, but other than that a near perfect day for us
		
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all 6 non prem sides kept apart in 8 games, no local derbies, nothing

almost like you could name the quarter finalists now


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## davemc1 (Feb 6, 2022)

Also, why did we ko at 12 when there isn’t another game till 4?


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## Foxholer (Feb 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wasn't lambasting refs. You misinterpreted my post, or I worded it poorly? I understand why the ref on pitch didn't give it (he maybe didn't even see it or wasn't sure). I understand VAR can't intervene. Because VAR becomes impotent in such a situation due to way law is written.
...
		
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1. I didn't suggest you did lambast refs! I would have used '*stop* lambasting...' if I thought you had. Just _don't_ do it when they are following the rules!
2. I believe you worded it fine and I interpreted it fine too. It does seem a it daft, but 'them's the rules' and Refs must apply them.
3. VAR can 'intervene' (though that may not be the correct word) - that's part of its role! It's NOT impotent, but like the Ref, it has to follow the rules!
[/QUOTE]


Swango1980 said:



			...
My annoyance is with the law itself.
		
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No problem with that


Swango1980 said:



			...
Up to and including the point at which ball hit his hand, had that player scored it is a handball. If he passes to his mate, it is not a handball.

That is crazy. How can the rules decide on whether a handball is a handball based on what happens afterwards?
		
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Ignoring the timing gobbldygook, I suspect the rulemakers deemed passing to a mate to be a different phase of play, so incident over. That's as opposed to 'eliminating' the possibility of deliberate handball before scoring.
I do wonder what the ruling would have been had the 'mate' passed the ball back to the player, who scored!


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## babylonsinger (Feb 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Maybe it was! Either way what a record to hold lol always next year lol
		
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I thought the commentary made the point that West Ham had never lost to a non league side?


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## babylonsinger (Feb 6, 2022)

Right result at Anfield but can't help but think had our keeper tackled Jota etc like that he'd have been sent off. Pen appeal far less clear cut but I suspect it would be given as a foul elsewhere on the field. Just glad there were no injuries ahead of a big game for us midweek


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## Hobbit (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Many probably won’t like this, because it hands decision making back to referees (remember those days?), but for me we can’t simply rely on a black and white list of rules because football, much like life, isn’t black and white.

The solution to the ridiculous handball conundrum is not that difficult, but will upset those who like everything to be written down and with a formal framework. Quite simply, if it is more likely than not that a ball striking hand, deliberate or otherwise, made a material difference to the immediate outcome, then it is handball.

My point since Friday evening has been that the current ruling is too rigid, does not allow for any common sense to be applied, and leads to the farcical situation at Old Trafford. Try to set to one side the team(s) involved, the fact that United missed half a dozen gilt edged chances and so on, and think about the rule. The rule is a joke, and should not allow for a player to immediately pass to a team mate for that team mate to score a legitimate goal, if a handball would have been given had the offending player actually scored the goal himself. That sort of rule is so embarrassingly laughable it has no place in any sport.
		
Click to expand...

Its your opinion it was a farcical situation on Friday night, and that’s the point I’ve been trying to get across. The ref, VAR etc believe they got it right. The ball didn’t rebound up at speed into his forearm. In my opinion it made little difference in terms of control. I do think the rule is farcical but it’s application on Friday night was correct. It was a ‘good’ goal under the current rule, as stupid as the rule is.

Handball can be definitive, and if it isn’t you get situations like Friday night. If you make it a subjective decision you get bleating every time it becomes a contentious, subjective decision. How many times do we get a couple of days of bleating on here after a weekend? Almost every week.

Anyway, the Boro have got Spurs in the next round. UTB.


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Its your opinion it was a farcical situation on Friday night, and that’s the point I’ve been trying to get across. The ref, VAR etc believe they got it right. The ball didn’t rebound up at speed into his forearm. In my opinion it made little difference in terms of control. I do think the rule is farcical but it’s application on Friday night was correct. It was a ‘good’ goal under the current rule, as stupid as the rule is.

Handball can be definitive, and if it isn’t you get situations like Friday night. If you make it a subjective decision you get bleating every time it becomes a contentious, subjective decision. How many times do we get a couple of days of bleating on here after a weekend? Almost every week.

Anyway, the Boro have got Spurs in the next round. UTB.
		
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I think we’ll have to agree to disagree! Had the hand not intervened that player either loses control of the ball or the closest United defender, Varane I think, has time to get a tackle/block in. The hand quite clearly allowed the Boro player to get an immediate cross in, which would not otherwise have been possible.

A handball in line with the current ruling? No. Integral in allowing the player to retain control? Absolutely - watch it again! As such, farcical. EDIT - and I mean the rule, not the application of it on Friday.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2022)




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## Hobbit (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I think we’ll have to agree to disagree! Had the hand not intervened that player either loses control of the ball or the closest United defender, Varane I think, has time to get a tackle/block in. The hand quite clearly allowed the Boro player to get an immediate cross in, which would not otherwise have been possible.

A handball in line with the current ruling? No. Integral in allowing the player to retain control? Absolutely - watch it again! As such, farcical. EDIT - and I mean the rule, not the application of it on Friday.
		
Click to expand...

Yes we disagree. I don’t even agree with your belief he wouldn’t have had time to get the cross in. How do you know he wouldn’t have had time? Do you know how quickly he might have reacted? No you don’t. But, from your post, you say Varane would have got a tackle in. Would he? He might have slipped. He might have been abducted by aliens. You don’t know, you surmise. You’re guessing… educated guessing but still guessing.

Integral in allowing the player to retain control… he most definitely didn’t seek to retain control with his arm. If he had deliberately done so it would have been handball.

And I have watched it again, both last night and this morning. I think you’re wrong… and so did the ref, VAR, Keane and Wrighty. And I do think it’s in line with the current rule.

This comes back to why I believe the subjectivity needs taking out of it.


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## Hobbit (Feb 6, 2022)




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## RichA (Feb 6, 2022)

3-0
🤣🤣🤣

Ffs don't screw it up.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 6, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Yes we disagree. I don’t even agree with your belief he wouldn’t have had time to get the cross in. How do you know he wouldn’t have had time? Do you know how quickly he might have reacted? No you don’t. But, from your post, you say Varane would have got a tackle in. Would he? He might have slipped. He might have been abducted by aliens. You don’t know, you surmise. You’re guessing… educated guessing but still guessing.

Integral in allowing the player to retain control… he most definitely didn’t seek to retain control with his arm. If he had deliberately done so it would have been handball.

And I have watched it again, both last night and this morning. I think you’re wrong… and so did the ref, VAR, Keane and Wrighty. And I do think it’s in line with the current rule.

This comes back to why I believe the subjectivity needs taking out of it.
		
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He might have slipped or got abducted by aliens? If you are prepared to accept those reasons seriously, then no player should ever be sent off for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. After all, aliens might stop the attacker at any moment


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Not sure anyone is making excuses for the United players. They should have won easily, and they didn't. That's on them. The manager said it, the pundits said it and most of the United fans I have heard have said it.

*That doesn't mean you can't criticise a farcical incident if they occur.*

Click to expand...

But if they had scored like they should have done, the Boro goal wouldnt have been the issue it is/was.


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Yes we disagree. I don’t even agree with your belief he wouldn’t have had time to get the cross in. How do you know he wouldn’t have had time? Do you know how quickly he might have reacted? No you don’t. But, from your post, you say Varane would have got a tackle in. Would he? He might have slipped. He might have been abducted by aliens. You don’t know, you surmise. You’re guessing… educated guessing but still guessing.

Integral in allowing the player to retain control… he most definitely didn’t seek to retain control with his arm. If he had deliberately done so it would have been handball.

And I have watched it again, both last night and this morning. I think you’re wrong… and so did the ref, VAR, Keane and Wrighty. And I do think it’s in line with the current rule.

This comes back to why I believe the subjectivity needs taking out of it.
		
Click to expand...

No, the referee and VAR applied the (ludicrous) rule. I didn’t see the post match blurb, but read that Keane merely said the (ludicrous) rule was correctly applied. I’ve never said it wasn’t, merely that the ridiculous wording within the current rules allow a goal to be scored which right minded football fans seem to agree should not be allowed to stand within the rules. The co-commentator on Friday, Lee Dixon I believe, said as much himself.

Watch the replay again, Brian, from the camera angle on United’s right touch line. The first touch of the Boro player quite clearly does not bring the ball under control - it deflects it upwards, and it is only when it strikes the outstretched hand that the ball in back under control. If the hand isn’t there I find it really bizarre that you can argue the player doesn’t lose control - what other part of the body regains control of a ball bouncing upwards?

I’m not guessing at all - I’m looking at the incident and assessing what the likely outcome would be had ball not struck hand. And, disregarding an alien invasion, if there is a choice between loss of control, a defender recovering, and the Boro player bringing the ball under control sufficiently to allow him to square it to a team mate, the latter comes a distant third.

None of which, of course, alters the fact that United deserved absolutely everything they got.


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But if they had scored like they should have done, the Boro goal wouldnt have been the issue it is/was.
		
Click to expand...

Why not? If United had run out 10-1 winners the facts surrounding the Boro goal remain precisely the same. The ludicrous rule is an issue, regardless of the scoreline.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 6, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			OMG, shouldnt the direction of dislike be directed at the UTD players who missed the pens, sitters in open play and were just plain rubbish?
Stop trying to find an excuse for their loss, it was down to the players and them only. Everything else is just marginal. The players didn't want it and proved it.
		
Click to expand...

Personally, and being a City fan am devastated Utd have gone out 🤔😉. But that handball ruling to allow that being a goal is a shocker. For me it has nowt to do with Utd fans looking for excuses 👍


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Personally, and being a City fan am devastated Utd have gone out 🤔😉. But that handball ruling to allow that being a goal is a shocker. For me it has nowt to do with Utd fans looking for excuses 👍
		
Click to expand...

Was the previous ruling ok? As going back to last March, when the Fulham goal was ruled out, people on here called that ruling ridiculous.🤷‍♂️


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Personally, and being a City fan am devastated Utd have gone out 🤔😉. But that handball ruling to allow that being a goal is a shocker. For me it has nowt to do with Utd fans looking for excuses 👍
		
Click to expand...

Thank you, Tash. I’m certainly not looking for excuses. I’ve never even remotely suggested that I am. If United can’t put away clear cut chances like those created on Friday, they can have no complaints about going out the way they did.

I’m angry about the Boro goal. But far angrier that we couldn’t win by converting our chances.


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## Hobbit (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			No, the referee and VAR applied the (ludicrous) rule. I didn’t see the post match blurb, but read that Keane merely said the (ludicrous) rule was correctly applied. I’ve never said it wasn’t, merely that the ridiculous wording within the current rules allow a goal to be scored which right minded football fans seem to agree should not be allowed to stand within the rules. The co-commentator on Friday, Lee Dixon I believe, said as much himself.

Watch the replay again, Brian, from the camera angle on United’s right touch line. The first touch of the Boro player quite clearly does not bring the ball under control - it deflects it upwards, and it is only when it strikes the outstretched hand that the ball in back under control. If the hand isn’t there I find it really bizarre that you can argue the player doesn’t lose control - what other part of the body regains control of a ball bouncing upwards?

I’m not guessing at all - I’m looking at the incident and assessing what the likely outcome would be had ball not struck hand. And, disregarding an alien invasion, if there is a choice between loss of control, a defender recovering, and the Boro player bringing the ball under control sufficiently to allow him to square it to a team mate, the latter comes a distant third.

None of which, of course, alters the fact that United deserved absolutely everything they got.
		
Click to expand...

Watmore’s first touch doesn’t bring the ball under control, nor does the 2nd touch with the arm. A consequence of the ball hitting his arm means his next touch is to make the pass to Crooks. At that point of making the pass he is in control, not before, and he doesn’t control the ball with his arm.

If the ball hadn’t hit his arm when it bounced up, how much higher would it have gone? I believe not much higher, which suggests there wouldn’t be much time for either the keeper or defender to make much difference to the outcome. I believe he would still have had time to either cross to Crooks or shoot… you think differently. I don’t think my belief is bizarre but I do believe yours is… both wearing rose tinted glasses? And no I’m not going to watch it again. I’m happy with how I see it.

As for your 3 choices and subsequent assumption, it’s exactly that an assumption, nothing more. Is it correct? You assume it is but you don’t know it is.

I think the only think we agree on is the rule is appalling.


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## Hobbit (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Thank you, Tash. I’m certainly not looking for excuses. I’ve never even remotely suggested that I am. If United can’t put away clear cut chances like those created on Friday, they can have no complaints about going out the way they did.

I’m angry about the Boro goal. But far angrier that we couldn’t win by converting our chances.
		
Click to expand...

Angry about the rule or the goal? The goal is good under the current rule.


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## Voyager EMH (Feb 6, 2022)

Oh gawd...

EDIT: This was when the 4th Forest goal was scored.


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Angry about the rule or the goal? The goal is good under the current rule.
		
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Stop splitting hairs, Brian.


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2022)

Forest giving Leicester a proper hiding in the cup it seems


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## Hobbit (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Stop splitting hairs, Brian.
		
Click to expand...

Whoa, easy tiger! Methinks you’re too angry.

Utd were by far the better team but football isn’t a game of perfect. They were beaten, get over it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			Forest giving Leicester a proper hiding in the cup it seems
		
Click to expand...

Thoroughly deserve their lead and it could/should have been more. If they can keep this momentum up I think they could come on the rails and be safely in the play off places. Looking very good today.


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

Hobbit said:



*Watmore’s first touch doesn’t bring the ball under control, nor does the 2nd touch with the arm. A consequence of the ball hitting his arm means his next touch is to make the pass to Crooks. At that point of making the pass he is in control, not before, and he doesn’t control the ball with his arm.*

If the ball hadn’t hit his arm when it bounced up, how much higher would it have gone? I believe not much higher, which suggests there wouldn’t be much time for either the keeper or defender to make much difference to the outcome. I believe he would still have had time to either cross to Crooks or shoot… you think differently. I don’t think my belief is bizarre but I do believe yours is… both wearing rose tinted glasses? And no I’m not going to watch it again. I’m happy with how I see it.

As for your 3 choices and subsequent assumption, it’s exactly that an assumption, nothing more. Is it correct? You assume it is but you don’t know it is.

I think the only think we agree on is the rule is appalling.
		
Click to expand...

I think we’re going to have to draw a line under this as we’re never going to agree, but I am confused by the paragraph highlighted in bold.

At the point of crossing the ball he is in control of it. I agree. But you also say that, whilst not controlling the ball with his arm, a consequence of the ball striking his arm is that his next touch is the cross.

If he is in control of the ball immediately after it strikes his arm to the extent he can cross it, how was it brought under control if not by his arm? What am I missing? Are you suggesting that Watmore controlled the ball accidentally with his arm, rather than deliberately, and that this should be allowed?

EDIT: I’m listing my three assumptions using the balance of probabilities. I agree I don’t know they’re correct, but I do think they’re reasonable based on what I’ve seen. We’ll just have to agree to differ.


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Whoa, easy tiger! Methinks you’re too angry.

Utd were by far the better team but football isn’t a game of perfect. They were beaten, get over it.
		
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I was over the defeat as soon as the last penalty went sailing into the Stretford End! I’m angry about the goal, because of the way it was allowed to stand under the current rules.


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			Forest giving Leicester a proper hiding in the cup it seems
		
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And then some. I think Rodgers could be in a spot of bother.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 6, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Was the previous ruling ok? As going back to last March, when the Fulham goal was ruled out, people on here called that ruling ridiculous.🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

For me if the previous ruling was felt wrong to instigate a new “ ruling “. It is a classic example of two wrongs not making a right.

Not sure who said it earlier in this footie thread, but it hit the nail on the head. Officials are not making decisions because VAR can bale them out. But and this is a massive but. This weekend VAR has not been used at some FA cup games. Officials have had to make decisions. So how can they change there thought mentality from week to week just because they do or do not have VAR.


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			For me if the previous ruling was felt wrong to instigate a new “ ruling “. It is a classic example of two wrongs not making a right.

Not sure who said it earlier in this footie thread, but it hit the nail on the head. Officials are not making decisions because VAR can bale them out. But and this is a massive but. This weekend VAR has not been used at some FA cup games. Officials have had to make decisions. So how can they change there thought mentality from week to week just because they do or do not have VAR.
		
Click to expand...


the same way they do when they ref a championship game having reffed in the prem the previous week?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			the same way they do when they ref a championship game having reffed in the prem the previous week?
		
Click to expand...

👍 that’s my point. Let the Officials do there job and if VAR needs to intervene then so be it. But to not raise a flag or to not make a decision because someone at Stockley May make a decision ( and get it wrong). Well it just seems wrong.


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## Hobbit (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I think we’re going to have to draw a line under this as we’re never going to agree, but I am confused by the paragraph highlighted in bold.

At the point of crossing the ball he is in control of it. I agree. But you also say that, whilst not controlling the ball with his arm, a consequence of the ball striking his arm is that his next touch is the cross.

If he is in control of the ball immediately after it strikes his arm to the extent he can cross it, how was it brought under control if not by his arm? What am I missing? Are you suggesting that Watmore controlled the ball accidentally with his arm, rather than deliberately, and that this should be allowed?
		
Click to expand...

Where the ball goes after it hits his arm is by chance, not by control. He doesn’t direct the ball with his arm. Where it ends up means he can make a (controlled) pass. At the point of making the pass he has control, not before.

I’m not disputing the rule is unfair. It’s blatantly unfair. But that is the rule that was applied by the ref and supported by VAR. In that respect, however unfair it might be, the goal is good. Aggrieved? Hell, I would be mightily aggrieved by the unfairness of it but I’d accept it as it is within the rules.


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			👍 that’s my point. Let the Officials do there job and if VAR needs to intervene then so be it. But to not raise a flag or to not make a decision because someone at Stockley May make a decision ( and get it wrong). Well it just seems wrong.
		
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I do hanker after the old days. I know there used to be a good dose of controversy and slagging off of referees, but I’m sure things were never as complicated as they are now. Every week, either here or on MOTD, more time is spent picking apart refereeing decisions, or the absence of them, than the actual football itself.


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## Voyager EMH (Feb 6, 2022)

90 minutes of poo
From the boys in blue
Just one goal
And that was daft

Forest truly deserved that win and score-line, it hurts me to say.


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## AmandaJR (Feb 6, 2022)

Voyager EMH said:



			90 minutes of poo
From the boys in blue
Just one goal
And that was daft

Forest truly deserved that win and score-line, it hurts me to say.
		
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Husband is a lifelong Forest fan - he seems rather shell-shocked!


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Where the ball goes after it hits his arm is by chance, not by control. He doesn’t direct the ball with his arm. Where it ends up means he can make a (controlled) pass. At the point of making the pass he has control, not before.

I’m not disputing the rule is unfair. It’s blatantly unfair. But that is the rule that was applied by the ref and supported by VAR. In that respect, however unfair it might be, the goal is good. Aggrieved? Hell, I would be mightily aggrieved by the unfairness of it but I’d accept it as it is within the rules.
		
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I accept it was within the rules, have done from the outset. But the rule is an utter nonsense, and were it not for the fact that the rule is a nonsense we would never be having this discussion!

Time for me to move on, Brian - have a great evening.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			For me if the previous ruling was felt wrong to instigate a new “ ruling “. It is a classic example of two wrongs not making a right.

Not sure who said it earlier in this footie thread, but it hit the nail on the head. Officials are not making decisions because VAR can bale them out. But and this is a massive but. This weekend VAR has not been used at some FA cup games. Officials have had to make decisions. So how can they change there thought mentality from week to week just because they do or do not have VAR.
		
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But by the current appalling rule it was a perfectly good goal, regardless of VAR checking or not, just like the Fulham goal was rightly over turned because they correctly applied the law at the time.

It’s not the Officials asking for change or moaning about the laws it’s the managers/players/fans and the media.

The Officials are then left between a rock and a hard place and called all sorts when they do their job.


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## RichA (Feb 6, 2022)

Voyager EMH said:



			90 minutes of poo
From the boys in blue
Just one goal
And that was daft

Forest truly deserved that win and score-line, it hurts me to say.
		
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At least we're keeping east mids pride alive for a few more weeks. Leicester are so much better than this afternoon's effort. I'd hate to see Rogers punished for the current slump and I don't think he will be - he's a good manager.

I don't normally comment on this rather Prem League-centric thread, but noticed quite a few referee-led conversations lately. I thought Paul Tierney was outstanding this afternoon. The game flowed, he facilitated the football and every time the camera was on him he looked like he was genuinely enjoying himself.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 6, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490335905613336577
👏 👏 👏


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2022)

RichA said:



			At least we're keeping east mids pride alive for a few more weeks. Leicester are so much better than this afternoon's effort. I'd hate to see Rogers punished for the current slump and I don't think he will be - he's a good manager.

I don't normally comment on this rather Prem League-centric thread, but noticed quite a few referee-led conversations lately. I thought Paul Tierney was outstanding this afternoon. The game flowed, he facilitated the football and every time the camera was on him he looked like he was genuinely enjoying himself.
		
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I think this coming summer is a big one for Rodgers - the Leicester team prob needs a bit of refresh some players coming towards the end and some others will look to leave - So he may potentially have a choice between doing that or moving on to another club - Man Utd will be looking for a manager and maybe Arsenal depending on how they finish


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I do hanker after the old days. I know there used to be a good dose of controversy and slagging off of referees, but I’m sure things were never as complicated as they are now. Every week, either here or on MOTD, more time is spent picking apart refereeing decisions, or the absence of them, than the actual football itself.
		
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As do I.  VAR was an opportunity to sort out a lot of issues with the game as it is.  Instead it has been so criminally misused it has created more problems and failed to solve the existing ones.  It reminds me of a Billy Connolly gag that I'd be sanctioned for repeating.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2022)

RichA said:



			At least we're keeping east mids pride alive for a few more weeks. Leicester are so much better than this afternoon's effort. I'd hate to see Rogers punished for the current slump and I don't think he will be - he's a good manager.

I don't normally comment on this rather Prem League-centric thread, but noticed quite a few referee-led conversations lately. I thought Paul Tierney was outstanding this afternoon. The game flowed, he facilitated the football and every time the camera was on him he looked like he was genuinely enjoying himself.
		
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Thought he refereed it well. Leicester were poor and their PL form in inconsistent so there is work to be done. I think Leicester is one club where Rodgers will get time to sell and buy


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think this coming summer is a big one for Rodgers - the Leicester team prob needs a bit of refresh some players coming towards the end and some others will look to leave - So he may potentially have a choice between doing that or moving on to another club - Man Utd will be looking for a manager and maybe Arsenal depending on how they finish
		
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had huge injury probs at the back, lost Fofana for the season so far, Justin only just back, Evans injured again, get anywhere close to their first choice defense fit regularly theyll be fine, longer term think they need 1 or 2 more going forward, the worry for them is they may lose Tielemans and 1 or 2 others in the summer


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			had huge injury probs at the back, lost Fofana for the season so far, Justin only just back, Evans injured again, get anywhere close to their first choice defense fit regularly theyll be fine, longer term think they need 1 or 2 more going forward, the worry for them is they may lose Tielemans and 1 or 2 others in the summer
		
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And they have become too reliant on Vardy, a player surely on the wane if he loses that extra yard of pace.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			And they have become too reliant on Vardy, a player surely on the wane if he loses that extra yard of pace.
		
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Agree with that. Vardy was a talisman but they need one if not two younger and hungrier strikers. Not sure where they come from these days though unless you pay mega bucks


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			And they have become too reliant on Vardy, a player surely on the wane if he loses that extra yard of pace.
		
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hes a miss for sure but they still score goals, they score enough if the defense wasnt shipping them for fun. In 20 prem games scored 34 conceded 37, scored more than Arsenal Tottenham Wolves and Brighton who are all above them


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			hes a miss for sure but they still score goals, they score enough if the defense wasnt shipping them for fun. In 20 prem games scored 34 conceded 37, scored more than Arsenal Tottenham Wolves and Brighton who are all above them
		
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Think the commentary team had it spot on and Leicester are one of the worse sides at set pieces. Sides know this now and so look to capitalise


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			had huge injury probs at the back, lost Fofana for the season so far, Justin only just back, Evans injured again, get anywhere close to their first choice defense fit regularly theyll be fine, longer term think they need 1 or 2 more going forward, the worry for them is they may lose Tielemans and 1 or 2 others in the summer
		
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Tielemans will have to be sold unless they want to lose him on a free - only have 18 months left , Maddison may finally get a big club calling and i will be amazed if a club isn’t looking at Ndini


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2022)

Wow Borehamwood!!!! Be going crazy in the mop and brooms tonight lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			Wow Borehamwood!!!! Be going crazy in the mop and brooms tonight lol
		
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Great result. Defended brilliantly and worked hard and kept their shape


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2022)

This isnt good


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490373742454837251
unlike the right cross from Keenan Davis i think it is lol


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## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			This isnt good


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490373742454837251
unlike the right cross from Keenan Davis i think it is lol
		
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Disgusting. I hope East Midlands Police deal with this scumbag and ban him for life.


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## Piece (Feb 6, 2022)

AFCON final. 😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2022)

Piece said:



			AFCON final. 😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴
		
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Appropriate ending to the whole tournament tbh


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## Bigfoot (Feb 6, 2022)

This weekend shows what us watching football at lower levels have known for years- there is more ability in the game below the EFL than most think. Even Juergen Klopp saw that yesterday.
Well done Boreham Wood today.


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Disgusting. I hope East Midlands Police deal with this scumbag and ban him for life.
		
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He’ll get a banning order.


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			He’ll get a banning order.
		
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seems a perfect case to make an example of one of these idiots to me, give the clown some time


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## Billysboots (Feb 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			seems a perfect case to make an example of one of these idiots to me, give the clown some time
		
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That may well happen. The banning order I would say is an absolute minimum.


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## Hobbit (Feb 7, 2022)

Was just sat musing over a couple of posts yesterday that were about the ‘good old days.’ When I first played the formation was 5-3-2, the 5 being up front and the centre back playing just in front of the 2 fullbacks. It was very much attack minded. Players are so fit now it doesn’t matter if there’s only 2 up front as they are supported very quickly.

But here’s a thought to open up the games more. Completely drop the offside rule. Imagine the room to play in if players were strung out almost the length of the pitch. I’d also like to see a timekeeper like they have in rugby, hopefully making time wasting pointless. I dare say there’s a few rules that could be dropped.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 7, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			That may well happen. The banning order I would say is an absolute minimum.
		
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Running onto the pitch should be an automatic ban. Throwing and landing punches. Should be time. A Birmingham fan got 14 weeks for attacking Grealish whilst on the pitch.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 7, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Was just sat musing over a couple of posts yesterday that were about the ‘good old days.’ When I first played the formation was 5-3-2, the 5 being up front and the centre back playing just in front of the 2 fullbacks. It was very much attack minded. Players are so fit now it doesn’t matter if there’s only 2 up front as they are supported very quickly.

But here’s a thought to open up the games more. *Completely drop the offside rule.* Imagine the room to play in if players were strung out almost the length of the pitch. I’d also like to see a timekeeper like they have in rugby, hopefully making time wasting pointless. I dare say there’s a few rules that could be dropped.
		
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Marco Van Basten agrees, as discussed:

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-and-the-hockey-precedent-that-might-surprise

I had to play hockey at school, and they abolished the offside rule at some point during that time (1990's). That is also discussed in the article. It would be a radicle change, but I wouldn't be against trialing it in football.


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## Dando (Feb 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Appropriate ending to the whole tournament tbh
		
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I watch the “highlights” of the 3rd place play off. I’m sure one of the
Keepers took a bung as he was playing like a man with no arms!


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## Bdill93 (Feb 7, 2022)

Absolutely brilliant weekend of FA cup football.

Tuned in to at least 4 games - all on free to air TV which is class and brilliant for the households without pay to view access. 

Some absolute FA cup classics in there, the magic of the FA cup lives on


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Marco Van Basten agrees, as discussed:

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-and-the-hockey-precedent-that-might-surprise

I had to play hockey at school, and they abolished the offside rule at some point during that time (1990's). That is also discussed in the article. It would be a radicle change, but I wouldn't be against trialing it in football.
		
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I think that would be completely insane. Each team would have a 'goalhanger' who stays up the far end, so defending teams would have to leave someone back with him, which means the entire game would become stretched and your midfielders would need about four lungs each to cover the ground. Teams would have to start playing 2-3-2-2-1 formations and all sorts. I'm not sure hockey is a great comparison - I only played hockey for a couple of years back at school, but I would think it's a lot more difficult to launch an accurate pitch-length pass to a forward with a hockey stick than it is kicking a football.


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Absolutely brilliant weekend of FA cup football.

Tuned in to at least 4 games - all on free to air TV which is class and brilliant for the households without pay to view access.

Some absolute FA cup classics in there, the magic of the FA cup lives on
		
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Nobody mentioned it but Spurs actually played well for once! Up against a decent Brighton side, I think their lack of a proper striker once again cost them though. We actually moved the ball well and looked up for it for a change. And the two new players coming off the bench were pretty impressive. Romero was back and looked absolutely top drawer. 

Funny bit of deja vu as Royal scored a deflected cross - I seem to recall Aurier scored his first Spurs goal with a mishit cross against Brighton a few years back.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think that would be completely insane. Each team would have a 'goalhanger' who stays up the far end, so defending teams would have to leave someone back with him, *which means the entire game would become stretched* and your midfielders would need about four lungs each to cover the ground. Teams would have to start playing 2-3-2-2-1 formations and all sorts. I'm not sure hockey is a great comparison - I only played hockey for a couple of years back at school, but I would think it's a lot more difficult to launch an accurate pitch-length pass to a forward with a hockey stick than it is kicking a football.
		
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That was the whole point it was changed. And, for people involved in hockey, it seems it has worked. Games have become more exciting. I've not played hockey for years, not did I at a high level. However, I'm sure hockey players find it quite easy to launch a pitch length pass up front. Conversely, football players often struggle to play a cross with any accuracy (or a 5 yard pass if you care called Fred), so I'm sure hockey isn't an overly terrible sport to use as an example.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 7, 2022)

Whilst at the City game over the weekend. It kicked off a few times between the fans. I commented whilst driving to the game “ there are “ fans” that are not happy going to football unless they have had a fight”. It is still a major problem with arrests rising. One of the City pages I follow on Facebook showed a Fulham fan giving it the big I am. Only he is. Dwarf/person of short stature. It is funny to watch. But again that aggressive manner is there.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2022)

I played hockey for a number of years, pre and post the no offside rule. In the first few games after it was dropped teams did play a goal hanger but that was soon dropped as the ball would not make it through to them and so they were a wasted player on the pitch. A hockey ball flies far faster across a surface and through the air than a football but it is far harder to control through the air if hit, not flicked. Once it settled down teams played normally but without attackers having fear of playing tight on the last player. In effect, it has been a roaring success and even speaking as a defender I thought it was a great change. For one thing, you no longer had a goal against you when the attacker was clearly offside but it was missed by the umpire. Less stressful, no one to be grumpy with!

Football fans keep complaining about tight offside decisions but then close off when given solutions. I think a no offside trial would be worthwhile. If it didn't work, if football was not compatible with it, then move on. If it did work.........

My own thought is to do it in stages, as hockey did. Have a 25yd line drawn and only be offside beyond that. Trial that first, see how it goes. Baby steps.....


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 7, 2022)

Spent 6 months working in the BBC Studios in Elstree - staying overnight 3 nights a week - so managed to discover the delights of Borehamwood.  And so for the residents of B/Wood I am delighted they have something to be really proud about.  It struck me as an odd sort of place -  couple of nice restaurants on the 'High Street' mind - Restaurant Mariuca was my favourite - did excellent steaks.  Congrats to  B/Woof FC.


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I played hockey for a number of years, pre and post the no offside rule. In the first few games after it was dropped teams did play a goal hanger but that was soon dropped as the ball would not make it through to them and so they were a wasted player on the pitch. A hockey ball flies far faster across a surface and through the air than a football but it is far harder to control through the air if hit, not flicked. Once it settled down teams played normally but without attackers having fear of playing tight on the last player. In effect, it has been a roaring success and even speaking as a defender I thought it was a great change. For one thing, you no longer had a goal against you when the attacker was clearly offside but it was missed by the umpire. Less stressful, no one to be grumpy with!

Football fans keep complaining about tight offside decisions but then close off when given solutions. I think a no offside trial would be worthwhile. If it didn't work, if football was not compatible with it, then move on. If it did work.........

My own thought is to do it in stages, as hockey did. Have a 25yd line drawn and only be offside beyond that. Trial that first, see how it goes. Baby steps.....
		
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You've confirmed what I was thinking though. That it's more difficult to fire an accurate long ball to a forward and to control it in hockey than it is in football. Hence as I said, centre backs would have to play 30 yards deeper to avoid the punt over their heads to the goal-hanger. Midfielders then have an additional 30 yards of ground to cover so everyone other than Kanté would be blowing out of their backsides. 

There are other things to consider as well, like free kicks. What if the attacking side puts two players directly in front of the keeper to block his view or block him from diving easily. At the moment offside takes care of this because they'd be deemed interfering from an offside position.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I played hockey for a number of years, pre and post the no offside rule. In the first few games after it was dropped teams did play a goal hanger but that was soon dropped as the ball would not make it through to them and so they were a wasted player on the pitch. A hockey ball flies far faster across a surface and through the air than a football but it is far harder to control through the air if hit, not flicked. Once it settled down teams played normally but without attackers having fear of playing tight on the last player. In effect, it has been a roaring success and even speaking as a defender I thought it was a great change. For one thing, you no longer had a goal against you when the attacker was clearly offside but it was missed by the umpire. Less stressful, no one to be grumpy with!

Football fans keep complaining about tight offside decisions but then close off when given solutions. I think a no offside trial would be worthwhile. If it didn't work, if football was not compatible with it, then move on. If it did work.........

My own thought is to do it in stages, as hockey did. Have a 25yd line drawn and only be offside beyond that. Trial that first, see how it goes. *Baby steps....*.
		
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Excellent post. However we are talking about the FA. They would be giraffe steps. That 25 yard line could actually be the 18 yard line for starters. 👍


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## Swango1980 (Feb 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			You've confirmed what I was thinking though. That it's more difficult to fire an accurate long ball to a forward and to control it in hockey than it is in football. Hence as I said, centre backs would have to play 30 yards deeper to avoid the punt over their heads to the goal-hanger. Midfielders then have an additional 30 yards of ground to cover so everyone other than Kanté would be blowing out of their backsides. 

There are other things to consider as well, like free kicks. What if the attacking side puts two players directly in front of the keeper to block his view or block him from diving easily. At the moment offside takes care of this because they'd be deemed interfering from an offside position.
		
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Most of us have played football with no offside rule, when we all get together in a big group for an hourly kickabout. I play in an over-35's 8aside league (on a fairly big pitch) where there is no offside. The league has several teams who have players who have played at a pretty good level previously (pro and semi pro), so they are competent in how to play the game. Yes, there are teams that have a big man up front, but as a player it does not feel like a big issue, nor does it feel so much more exhausting. Currently, a large part of a defenders focus is in playing offside, and controlling the back line. If offside was scrapped, more focus would simply be shifted in defending against the opponents, rather than worrying so much about how you are positioned in relation to the other defenders.

In terms of other consequences of scrapping the rule, I'm sure other measures could be taken if it is a problem worth resolving. For example, maybe opponents need to be at least 5/10 yards away from the keeper when a free kick is taken


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			You've confirmed what I was thinking though. That it's more difficult to fire an accurate long ball to a forward and to control it in hockey than it is in football. Hence as I said, centre backs would have to play 30 yards deeper to avoid the punt over their heads to the goal-hanger. Midfielders then have an additional 30 yards of ground to cover so everyone other than Kanté would be blowing out of their backsides. 

There are other things to consider as well, like free kicks. What if the attacking side puts two players directly in front of the keeper to block his view or block him from diving easily. At the moment offside takes care of this because they'd be deemed interfering from an offside position.
		
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You might have to refine bits of it but I think it is a concept worth trialling. Don't forget, hockey has been through all of this already so speak to the officials there, watch some games, see how they handle it. Teams soon adapt and work out ways of stopping attackers.


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Most of us have played football with no offside rule, when we all get together in a big group for an hourly kickabout. I play in an over-35's 8aside league (on a fairly big pitch) where there is no offside. The league has several teams who have players who have played at a pretty good level previously (pro and semi pro), so they are competent in how to play the game. Yes, there are teams that have a big man up front, but as a player it does not feel like a big issue, nor does it feel so much more exhausting. Currently, a large part of a defenders focus is in playing offside, and controlling the back line. If offside was scrapped, more focus would simply be shifted in defending against the opponents, rather than worrying so much about how you are positioned in relation to the other defenders.

In terms of other consequences of scrapping the rule, I'm sure other measures could be taken if it is a problem worth resolving. For example, maybe opponents need to be at least 5/10 yards away from the keeper when a free kick is taken
		
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7 and 8 a side pitches are much smaller, generally about a third of a full pitch and you would still play a 3 or 4 line formation, so the lines are obviously closer together. It's also narrower. There really isn't much space to lob it to a goalhanger which is why the offside rule isn't needed there. From what you're saying all defending would just be man-for-man for the whole game. So if say, Lukaku just decided to stand still out on the right wing, the defending team have to leave one of their centre backs just marking him all game. Following him round whenever he moves, but all other aspects, that defender is pretty much out of the game. I just think it would be bizarre.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2022)

why get rid of offsides on football ? It worked in hockey because of the dynamic of the games and the way the sport moves when you’re playing it and yes I played hockey to good level both before and after the change 

Football gets enough goals and is exciting enough - what would be the reason for removing offsides in football ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			7 and 8 a side pitches are much smaller, generally about a third of a full pitch and you would still play a 3 or 4 line formation, so the lines are obviously closer together. It's also narrower. There really isn't much space to lob it to a goalhanger which is why the offside rule isn't needed there. From what you're saying all defending would just be man-for-man for the whole game.* So if say, Lukaku just decided to stand still out on the right wing, the defending team have to leave one of their centre backs just marking him all game. Following him round whenever he moves*, but all other aspects, that defender is pretty much out of the game. I just think it would be bizarre.
		
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Actually you don't. Leave him there, he is wasting his time and will soon move. A defender needs to keep an eye on him but he can manage the space. If someone wants to ping him a 50yd ball then there is a good chance that the defender can pick it off. If not then he just needs to move across and deal with him when he gets the ball only.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			7 and 8 a side pitches are much smaller, generally about a third of a full pitch and you would still play a 3 or 4 line formation, so the lines are obviously closer together. It's also narrower. There really isn't much space to lob it to a goalhanger which is why the offside rule isn't needed there. From what you're saying all defending would just be man-for-man for the whole game. So if say, Lukaku just decided to stand still out on the right wing, the defending team have to leave one of their centre backs just marking him all game. Following him round whenever he moves, but all other aspects, that defender is pretty much out of the game. I just think it would be bizarre.
		
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I'd imagine teams would more likely play a sweeper, with other defending players (including defensively minded midfielders) moving out to protect the flanks when required. 

I don't think it would result in an attacker just hanging out on the edge of the box, getting a long ball with acres of space, and just tapping it past the keeper. They'd need to be more intelligent than that, as defending teams could deal with that pretty easily. I think they'd need to shift themselves up and down the pitch to try and drag the last defender up the pitch, and then hopefully create space behind them for themselves or teammates (if they want to exploit space behind the defenders).

It is a very interesting idea though. Initially my reaction was "no way, offside is an integral part of the game". However, the more I think of it, I'd love to see it trialled.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			why get rid of offsides on football ? It worked in hockey because of the dynamic of the games and the way the sport moves when you’re playing it and yes I played hockey to good level both before and after the change

*Football gets enough goals and is exciting enough - what would be the reason for removing offsides in football *?
		
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Did you watch the African Cup of Nations? I think there were 26 games in which no more than 1 goal was scored


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Actually you don't. Leave him there, he is wasting his time and will soon move. A defender needs to keep an eye on him but he can manage the space.* If someone wants to ping him a 50yd ball then there is a good chance that the defender can pick it off.* If not then he just needs to move across and deal with him when he gets the ball only.
		
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Not if Lukaku is already goalside of the defenders by 20-30 yards, there's no way they catch him. It would be an easy ball over the defence and he's through on goal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Did you watch the African Cup of Nations? I think there were 26 games in which no more than 1 goal was scored 

Click to expand...

It’s a tournament and at time it’s cagey , the players aren’t that great , pitches at times awful , standard of defending better than the standard of attacking 

Is that really a reason to remove offside’s? Because some players aren’t good enough ?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Did you watch the African Cup of Nations? I think there were 26 games in which no more than 1 goal was scored 

Click to expand...

The games I saw were purgatory


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd imagine teams would more likely play a sweeper, with other defending players (including defensively minded midfielders) moving out to protect the flanks when required.

I don't think it would result in an attacker just hanging out on the edge of the box, getting a long ball with acres of space, and just tapping it past the keeper. They'd need to be more intelligent than that, as defending teams could deal with that pretty easily. I think they'd need to shift themselves up and down the pitch to try and drag the last defender up the pitch, and then hopefully create space behind them for themselves or teammates (if they want to exploit space behind the defenders).

It is a very interesting idea though. Initially my reaction was "no way, offside is an integral part of the game". However, the more I think of it, I'd love to see it trialled.
		
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I would love to see it, in a pre-season friendly tournament or something, just as an experiment. I agree with you that formations would certainly go back to having a sweeper-type player who's job is literally just to be the last man and patrol the 'goal-hanger'. 



Liverpoolphil said:



			why get rid of offsides on football ? It worked in hockey because of the dynamic of the games and the way the sport moves when you’re playing it and yes I played hockey to good level both before and after the change

Football gets enough goals and is exciting enough - *what would be the reason for removing offsides in football* ?
		
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I guess because the authorities are so incapable of writing and enforcing a sensible rule these days that people think they're better of scrapping them altogether.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Not if Lukaku is already goalside of the defenders by 20-30 yards, there's no way they catch him. It would be an easy ball over the defence and he's through on goal.
		
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If the defending team give any player a 20-30 yard headstart, then the fault lies with them, not the fact offside does not exist. Maybe they were mistaken and though offside was still a rule, so simply need to be reminded.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a tournament and at time it’s cagey , the players aren’t that great , pitches at times awful , standard of defending better than the standard of attacking

Is that really a reason to remove offside’s? Because some players aren’t good enough ?
		
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I didn't say AFCON was a reason to scrap offside, just using it as an example that maybe there are not enough goals. That is subjective to each individual fan though.


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If the defending team give any player a 20-30 yard headstart, then the fault lies with them, not the fact offside does not exist. Maybe they were mistaken and though offside was still a rule, so simply need to be reminded.
		
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Eh? I think you've come at this backwards and confused what I was saying. Basically yes, I was saying that defenders would have to radically alter how the defender to combat a goalhanger like this. It seemed like LT was saying they could just leave him on his own and make up the ground somehow.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I didn't say AFCON was a reason to scrap offside, just using it as an example that maybe there are not enough goals. That is subjective to each individual fan though.
		
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Maybe some games don’t have that many goals because a team are very good at defending - is defending also not a skill to admired as well ? 

It’s the sort of stuff that someone in the USA would dream up because they need more excitement 

Just pandering to FIFA generation


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## Swango1980 (Feb 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe some games don’t have that many goals because a team are very good at defending -* is defending also not a skill to admired as well* ?

It’s the sort of stuff that someone in the USA would dream up because they need more excitement

Just pandering to FIFA generation
		
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Do you think removing offside would mean defending would no longer be a skill that was required in football?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Not if Lukaku is already goalside of the defenders by 20-30 yards, there's no way they catch him. It would be an easy ball over the defence and he's through on goal.
		
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If teams keep their formation then he isn't going to be that far away from a defender unless it is an attacking corner or similar and he is up the other end. Teams are then pinging a ball a ridiculous distance to reach him, unlikely to get there, not hard to cut out. If the defence is organised, keeper vocal, it isn't that hard to defend. 

Remember, so many defenders now are taking a position based on keeping an offside line. If that goes they can be a little more mobile, deeper at times, higher at other times. When you aren't constantly looking across a line your mindset changes.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Do you think removing offside would mean defending would no longer be a skill that was required in football?
		
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You’re missing the point 

One of the ways that teams defend is playing a high line , it’s a tactic and some defenders are very good at because of their pace , and some teams use pacey forwards to try and break those lines - it’s part of the skill for both, timing those runs from a forward to break the line as well as defenders timing when they step up. 

It’s hugely different to hockey - anyone in football can just bang a ball long , not so in hockey , takes a lot of skill 

What next - bigger goals ?


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## DanFST (Feb 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s hugely different to hockey - anyone in football can just bang a ball long , not so in hockey , takes a lot of skill
		
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I was about to post exactly the same thing.  Anyone can hoof a ball up, it's tricky to chuck an aerial to a forward and even trickier to thread a long ball that doesn't roll off the back!


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think that would be completely insane. Each team would have a 'goalhanger' who stays up the far end, so defending teams would have to leave someone back with him, which means the entire game would become stretched and your midfielders would need about four lungs each to cover the ground. Teams would have to start playing 2-3-2-2-1 formations and all sorts. I'm not sure hockey is a great comparison - I only played hockey for a couple of years back at school, but I would think it's a lot more difficult to launch an accurate pitch-length pass to a forward with a hockey stick than it is kicking a football.
		
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You can basically do that now.
Striker can lean on the post having a “ciggie “ as long as the ball dosnt go directly to him.
So if it’s played out wide to wing and by line if the balls pulled back he can’t be offside.
Can’t see it being abolished but maybe only in the last 18 yds.


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## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			You can basically do that now.
Striker can lean on the post having a “ciggie “ as long as the ball dosnt go directly to him.
So if it’s played out wide to wing and by line if the balls pulled back he can’t be offside.
Can’t see it being abolished but maybe only in the last 18 yds.
		
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How on earth is that the same?  By the time all that happens he's back onside because the defence have got back anyway.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			How on earth is that the same?  By the time all that happens he's back onside because the defence have got back anyway.
		
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Yes bit extreme but it could happen
The defence don’t need to be back if the ball is played backwards from the “ winger”

Can’t see it being scrapped but would stop a lot of arguments.


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## Hobbit (Feb 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes bit extreme but it could happen
The defence don’t need to be back if the ball is played backwards from the “ winger”

Can’t see it being scrapped but would stop a lot of arguments.
		
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Might lead to more goals too. Might even see more end to end… think it would be more entertaining.


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## Neilds (Feb 7, 2022)

Can’t believe that the FA are going to waste money putting a bid together to host the Euros in 2028. Have they forgotten the issues at last years final and all the trouble we are having at the moment with mindless idiots.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Can’t believe that the FA are going to waste money putting a bid together to host the Euros in 2028. Have they forgotten the issues at last years final and all the trouble we are having at the moment with mindless idiots.
		
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Maybe they should just try bribery,seems to work.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Might lead to more goals too. Might even see more end to end… think it would be more entertaining.
		
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Can’t see it happening.
Would like to see offside if your 18yrds or less.
Two inches into ops half and your offside seems very negative in an entertainment sport.
But they have made changes to the rules the last few years without much success , in fact imo they have made a complete balls of the rules they have changed.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Can’t believe that the FA are going to waste money putting a bid together to host the Euros in 2028. Have they forgotten the issues at last years final and all the trouble we are having at the moment with mindless idiots.
		
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That happens in other countries as well.
Just highlighted here a lot more.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 7, 2022)

I can't see FIFA getting rid of offsides. Way too big a step.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 7, 2022)

Zoumas potential knee injury is least of our problems 

Turns out (search the video yourselfs if you wish I wont post it) he likes kicking cats .. (he has apologised.. like that makes it alright

Did we keep that receipt?

What is wrong with footballers


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## Fade and Die (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Zoumas potential knee injury is least of our problems

Turns out (search the video yourselfs if you wish I wont post it) he likes kicking cats .. (he has apologised.. like that makes it alright

Did we keep that receipt?

What is wrong with footballers
		
Click to expand...

Just seen it, pretty disgusting (although Zouma was moving pretty good on that knee. 😬) 
What planet are they on when they think they can get away with that sort of crap. Wish they would make an example of him and lock him up. Only human garbage tortures animals.


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## Beezerk (Feb 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Just seen it, pretty disgusting (although Zouma was moving pretty good on that knee. 😬) 
What planet are they on when they think they can get away with that sort of crap. Wish they would make an example of him and lock him up. Only human garbage tortures animals.
		
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Wish I’d not seen it now, what a complete $hithouse of a man.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Wish I’d not seen it now, what a complete $hithouse of a man.
		
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I'm double disappointed, obviously disappointed one of our players is involved but also I really thought zouma seemed a decent guy.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Just seen it, pretty disgusting (although Zouma was moving pretty good on that knee. 😬)
What planet are they on when they think they can get away with that sort of crap. Wish they would make an example of him and lock him up. Only human garbage tortures animals.
		
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It'll be intriguing how it is dealt with, and how the public react. Greenwood's could be career over after the allegations against him, and if true then no doubt he should suffer the consequences. Meanwhile, he is suspended and losing his sponsorship deals.

Will Zouma suffer similar fate? I doubt it. Cruelty against animals, it seems, is much less serious than cruelty against humans. I can only imagine the reaction if a video emerged of Greenwood, Zouma or anyone else kicking their girlfriend across the room while everyone laughed.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It'll be intriguing how it is dealt with, and how the public react. Greenwood's could be career over after the allegations against him, and if true then no doubt he should suffer the consequences. Meanwhile, he is suspended and losing his sponsorship deals.

Will Zouma suffer similar fate? I doubt it. Cruelty against animals, it seems, is much less serious than cruelty against humans. I can only imagine the reaction if a video emerged of Greenwood, Zouma or anyone else kicking their girlfriend across the room while everyone laughed.
		
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If we didn't have a defender shortage ATM I wouldn't have been surprised to see him out the squad for a while

I think clubs need additional insurance against players being idiots.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It'll be intriguing how it is dealt with, and how the public react. Greenwood's could be career over after the allegations against him, and if true then no doubt he should suffer the consequences. Meanwhile, he is suspended and losing his sponsorship deals.

Will Zouma suffer similar fate? I doubt it. Cruelty against animals, it seems, is much less serious than cruelty against humans. I can only imagine the reaction if a video emerged of Greenwood, Zouma or anyone else kicking their girlfriend across the room while everyone laughed.
		
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I have no tolerance at all of people that bully animals, in my opinion he should be suspended and the police should deal with it. 
However he is a valuable asset to West Ham and they are already trying to play it down and draw a line under it by saying it’s going to be dealt with internally. The Police have also already said they will not be investigating so it seems like it may have already run it’s course.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I have no tolerance at all of people that bully animals, in my opinion he should be suspended and the police should deal with it.
However he is a valuable asset to West Ham and they are already trying to play it down and draw a line under it by saying it’s going to be dealt with internally. The Police have also already said they will not be investigating so it seems like it may have already run it’s course.
		
Click to expand...

I think dropping him only punishes the club, doesn't really affect him.

I think best course of action (as the police are not interested) is max fine (2 weeks I believe) all to be given to the RSPCA

Then make him do some volunteer work for them 

Tbh play him tonight. From the mood on the forums he will know how angry the fans are at him. Why protect him?


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## DanFST (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It'll be intriguing how it is dealt with, and how the public react. Greenwood's could be career over after the allegations against him, and if true then no doubt he should suffer the consequences. Meanwhile, he is suspended and losing his sponsorship deals.

Will Zouma suffer similar fate? I doubt it. Cruelty against animals, it seems, is much less serious than cruelty against humans. I can only imagine the reaction if a video emerged of Greenwood, Zouma or anyone else kicking their girlfriend across the room while everyone laughed.
		
Click to expand...

Are you serious?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Are you serious?
		
Click to expand...

I rest my case. Cruelty against animals is considered much less serious. I wasn't criticising anyone, just making a point. Drop kicking an animal across a room only requires a slap on the wrist and to be dealt with internally.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I rest my case. Cruelty against animals is considered much less serious. I wasn't criticising anyone, just making a point. Drop kicking an animal across a room only requires a slap on the wrist and to be dealt with internally.
		
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Well it's not even a slap on the wrist is it? The police aren't bothering. Even with a video and an apology (so admitting it)


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## Bdill93 (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well it's not even a slap on the wrist is it? The police aren't bothering. Even with a video and an apology (so admitting it)
		
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Just wait until the Animal Rights groups start to get involved. I don't think this dies from here, Zouma deserves a ban from owning pets at the very minimum.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well it's not even a slap on the wrist is it? The police aren't bothering. Even with a video and an apology (so admitting it)
		
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Suprized if the RSPCA don’t get involved.
But the police seem to think these days if you apologise it’s not worth investigating.
Wonder if that goes for speeding fines as well


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## Slime (Feb 8, 2022)

I'd put him in prison.
It's all well and good acting tough against a poor defenseless cat, put him in an environment with real tough guys and see how brave he is then!


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## DanFST (Feb 8, 2022)

You would hope the cats get taken away, and a HUGE fine for charity.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 8, 2022)

Good to see Sky reporting all the facts;

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-met-police-over-video-of-him-kicking-his-cat

"The £30m *former Chelsea centre-back* is then filmed throwing a pair of shoes at the animal as it tries to escape. A final clip shows him slapping the cat in the face and out of the child's arms."

He's a former employee; what the hell has it got to do with who he used to play for?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Good to see Sky reporting all the facts;

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-met-police-over-video-of-him-kicking-his-cat

"The £30m *former Chelsea centre-back* is then filmed throwing a pair of shoes at the animal as it tries to escape. A final clip shows him slapping the cat in the face and out of the child's arms."

He's a former employee; what the hell has it got to do with who he used to play for?
		
Click to expand...

On a side did this come as a massive shock to you as it did to me? I really thought he was a decent person. Always came across well liked


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I rest my case. Cruelty against animals is considered much less serious. I wasn't criticising anyone, just making a point. Drop kicking an animal across a room only requires a slap on the wrist and to be dealt with internally.
		
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I’m staggered that someone even tried to bring Greenwood into it 

Greenwood appears to have not just beaten his girlfriend but also raped her 

There is no comparison and shouldn’t even be in the same conversation- Greenwood will potentially be sent down for a significant amount of years 

There is one video of Zouma treating an animals poorly - it’s not good to see and I expect him to be looked at for animal cruelty and punished appropriately but it’s a world a way from Greenwood


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m staggered that someone even tried to bring Greenwood into it

Greenwood appears to have not just beaten his girlfriend but also raped her

There is no comparison and shouldn’t even be in the same conversation- Greenwood will potentially be sent down for a significant amount of years

There is one video of Zouma treating an animals poorly - it’s not good to see and I expect him to be looked at for animal cruelty and punished appropriately but it’s a world a way from Greenwood
		
Click to expand...

Again, you prove my point. Thanks 

And, just to be clear,  at no point have I ever downplayed the seriousness of the allegations against Greenwood. If he is guilty of rape, he should be locked away for a very long time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Again, you prove my point. Thanks 

And, just to be clear,  at no point have I ever downplayed the seriousness of the allegations against Greenwood. If he is guilty of rape, he should be locked away for a very long time.
		
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What is the point you are trying to prove ? 

Is rape and beating a women up multiple times more serious than kicking an animal a numbers ? Of course it is and will be treated differently because of the severity of the crimes 

Did you expect people to see both incidents the same ?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What is the point you are trying to prove ?

Is rape and beating a women up multiple times more serious than kicking an animal a numbers ? Of course it is and will be treated differently because of the severity of the crimes

Did you expect people to see both incidents the same ?
		
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I actually said that was exactly my expectation. If a video circulated of, say Bruno Fernandes, kicking his girlfriend about a room, he'd be investigated by police, dropped by sponsors and most likely career over. Swap his girlfriend with a cat, and he'll get a slap on the wrist, and an internal club investigation, which will probably come to nothing except some sort of fine. I'd imagine West Ham might be a little more lenient given he is a new club signing.


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## GB72 (Feb 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What is the point you are trying to prove ?

Is rape and beating a women up multiple times more serious than kicking an animal a numbers ? Of course it is and will be treated differently because of the severity of the crimes

Did you expect people to see both incidents the same ?
		
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I don't in any way expect the incidents to be treated the same but I do feel that animal cruielty can be swept under the rug and the anticipated slap on the wrist, maybe a club fine, is not enough. Look at the primary school teacher out this way who kicked and punched her horse on video. In court and sacked from her job. I am realistic, I suspect that a footballer with a multi million pound transfer value will not be sacked but I would expect an investigation and prosecution and if I were the club I would be encouraging a very significant donation to the cats protection league as well a bit of volunteer work and education. 

All i know is that when i saw it I was sickened by the whole thing and my 2 moggies got an extra hug before I left this morning.


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## Piece (Feb 8, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I don't in any way expect the incidents to be treated the same but I do feel that animal cruielty can be swept under the rug and the anticipated slap on the wrist, maybe a club fine, is not enough. Look at the primary school teacher out this way who kicked and punched her horse on video. In court and sacked from her job. I am realistic, I suspect that a footballer with a multi million pound transfer value will not be sacked but I would expect an investigation and prosecution and if I were the club I would be encouraging a very significant donation to the cats protection league as well a bit of volunteer work and education.

All i know is that when i saw it I was sickened by the whole thing and my 2 moggies got an extra hug before I left this morning.
		
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Yup. Or the trainer who sat on a dead horse while making a phone call.

A standard two week fine is not sufficient here. Not by a long way.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'd put him in prison.
It's all well and good acting tough against a poor defenseless cat, put him in an environment with real tough guys and see how brave he is then!
		
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Or a proper cat ( tiger enclosure) with keeper of course.
See how brave he is then.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2022)

Piece said:



			Yup. Or the trainer who sat on a dead horse while making a phone call.

A standard two week fine is not sufficient here. Not by a long way.
		
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I remember the woman who put a cat in a wheelie bin on the news.
She was named and shamed .
But does everyone convicted of animal cruelty lose their job ?
He’s a £30 million asset and like it or not I can’t see him being sacked.
Eric Cantona kung fu kicked a supporter he wasn’t sacked.
Money talks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I don't in any way expect the incidents to be treated the same but I do feel that animal cruielty can be swept under the rug and the anticipated slap on the wrist, maybe a club fine, is not enough. Look at the primary school teacher out this way who kicked and punched her horse on video. In court and sacked from her job. I am realistic, I suspect that a footballer with a multi million pound transfer value will not be sacked but I would expect an investigation and prosecution and if I were the club I would be encouraging a very significant donation to the cats protection league as well a bit of volunteer work and education.

All i know is that when i saw it I was sickened by the whole thing and my 2 moggies got an extra hug before I left this morning.
		
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Don’t get me wrong - I hope it’s dealt with as strongly as it can and not brush under the carpet 

I just don’t see what point there was in bringing Greenwood into the discussion , it’s two Totally different incidents


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t get me wrong - I hope it’s dealt with as strongly as it can and not brush under the carpet

I just don’t see what point there was in bringing Greenwood into the discussion , it’s two Totally different incidents
		
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Yes I agree.
And Greenwoods is still only an allegation .


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t get me wrong - I hope it’s dealt with as strongly as it can and not brush under the carpet

*I just don’t see what point there was in bringing Greenwood into the discussion , it’s two Totally different incidents*

Click to expand...

Exactly. They ARE different. The victim in one is an animal. The victim in another is a human. THAT was the point.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Exactly. They ARE different. The victim in one is an animal. The victim in another is a human. THAT was the point.
		
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Missed the part where he raped the cat


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Exactly. They ARE different. The victim in one is an animal. The victim in another is a human. THAT was the point.
		
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🤷‍♂️ People know that - but your initial post was very much asking the question in relation to Greenwood’s treatment, it’s irrelevant and was no need to be mentioned in this scenario


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Missed the part where he raped the cat
		
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Would it help if there was no mention of rape in the Greenwood case, when using them as a comparison? So, imagine the only allegation against Greenwood were the pictures of his battered girlfriend. Would leaving it as an internal investigation, nothing more, be suitable punishment for him?


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## phillarrow (Feb 8, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I don't in any way expect the incidents to be treated the same but I do feel that animal cruielty can be swept under the rug and the anticipated slap on the wrist, maybe a club fine, is not enough. Look at the primary school teacher out this way who kicked and punched her horse on video. In court and sacked from her job. I am realistic, I suspect that a footballer with a multi million pound transfer value will not be sacked but I would expect an investigation and prosecution and if I were the club I would be encouraging a very significant donation to the cats protection league as well a bit of volunteer work and education.

All i know is that when i saw it I was sickened by the whole thing and my 2 moggies got an extra hug before I left this morning.
		
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Strange post?! You say that animal cruelty is swept under the rug, but then use as your example the case of a teacher who was in court and sacked from her job to 'prove' your point??

Going by the evidence of the two cases (Zouma and the teacher) it would appear that it's not a lack of care for animals that is the issue, but the fact that rich/famous people get special treatment that wouldn't be afforded the hoi polloi?


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## Orikoru (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Exactly. They ARE different. The victim in one is an animal. The victim in another is a human. THAT was the point.
		
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I think they call this a straw man argument to be honest. You're arguing with nobody, or yourself, I'm not sure which.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️ People know that - but your initial post was very much asking the question in relation to Greenwood’s treatment, it’s irrelevant and was no need to be mentioned in this scenario
		
Click to expand...

How is it irrelevant, when I am comparing the reaction against a footballer who abuses an animal compared to the reaction to a footballer who abuses a girlfriend?

Why do you get so worked up about some points, when there is literally no need? It is almost like you think I was trying to say we should treat Greenwood in the same way we are treating Zouma, whereas, if anything, I was saying it could almost be the complete opposite (i.e. should Zouma be treated much more harshly?)


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## phillarrow (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			How is it irrelevant, when I am comparing the reaction against a footballer who abuses an animal compared to the reaction to a footballer who abuses a girlfriend?

Why do you get so worked up about some points, when there is literally no need? It is almost like you think I was trying to say we should treat Greenwood in the same way we are treating Zouma, whereas, if anything, I was saying it could almost be the complete opposite (i.e. *should Zouma be treated much more harshly?*)
		
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No.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Would it help if there was no mention of rape in the Greenwood case, when using them as a comparison? So, imagine the only allegation against Greenwood were the pictures of his battered girlfriend. Would leaving it as an internal investigation, nothing more, be suitable punishment for him?
		
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Zouma admitted to his guilt that is the first step.. greenwood hasn't (that we know of) yet. So even so in court of law zouma would get lesser sentance for not putting Tiddles on the stand


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## BiMGuy (Feb 8, 2022)

Hopefully someone will kick him about a bit next time he’s at training.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Zouma admitted to his guilt that is the first step.. greenwood hasn't (that we know of) yet. So even so in court of law zouma would get lesser sentance for not putting Tiddles on the stand
		
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Interesting point.

If Greenwood held up his hands and said "I did everything I have been accused of", would he then be treated the same as Zouma (or at least how I expect Zouma to be treated)? Almost definitely not, because cruelty against animals is not deemed as awful as cruelty against humans. So, as Zouma is a multi-million pound asset to West Ham, there will not be much of a punishment, apart from maybe a little fine and a few dodgy chants from the terraces. Greenwood is also a multi-million pound asset, but he has crossed the line and thus he experiences much more severe consequences. 

Of course, the investigation into Greenwood has not yet found him guilty, so it would be jumping to conclusions is assuming he has anything to admit to yet.


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## GB72 (Feb 8, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Strange post?! You say that animal cruelty is swept under the rug, but then use as your example the case of a teacher who was in court and sacked from her job to 'prove' your point??

Going by the evidence of the two cases (Zouma and the teacher) it would appear that it's not a lack of care for animals that is the issue, but the fact that rich/famous people get special treatment that wouldn't be afforded the hoi polloi?
		
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Not that strange, the intention was to point out that, as appears to be happening here, it is swept under the rug and my comment about the Melton School teacher is more about what I expect to happen but what I know will not. Footballers have a direct cash vale to the club, most other emplyees do not and that in itself is enough to protect them in a number of circumstances. 

In the real world, if most of us were in a the main stream media follwing such an incident, we would be dismissed on the spot and so I suspect that the only point of yours that I disagree with is not so much that footballers get a light touch becuase they are rich but rather because to treat them as normal employees would result in a loss of millions of pounds to the club. 

I also feel that the treatment differs depending on the animal as well (always feel cruelty to dogs gets stronger enforcement than offences against cats) but that is another issue.


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## phillarrow (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Interesting point.

If Greenwood held up his hands and said "I did everything I have been accused of", would he then be treated the same as Zouma (or at least how I expect Zouma to be treated)? Almost definitely not, *because cruelty against animals is not deemed as awful as cruelty against humans*. So, as Zouma is a multi-million pound asset to West Ham, there will not be much of a punishment, apart from maybe a little fine and a few dodgy chants from the terraces. Greenwood is also a multi-million pound asset, but he has crossed the line and thus he experiences much more severe consequences.

Of course, the investigation into Greenwood has not yet found him guilty, so it would be jumping to conclusions is assuming he has anything to admit to yet.
		
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And because Zouma didn't rape his cat! 

Out of interest, have you ever deliberately killed a wasp or a fly? Or is it just furry animals that are 'equal' to humans in your eyes? 
But then, have you ever, or would you ever, lay a mousetrap if your home was infested? Or is is just pets that are equal?
Where do you personally draw the line on the concept that cruelty to animals should be treated the same as cruelty to humans?


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## Bdill93 (Feb 8, 2022)

Can we get back to football please gents, this is just an argument now 

Looking forward to getting back to Villa Park tomorrow night, feels like its been ages! Squad is fit and healthy and its going to be a very interesting second half of the season for Villa fans!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Interesting point.

If Greenwood held up his hands and said "I did everything I have been accused of", would he then be treated the same as Zouma (or at least how I expect Zouma to be treated)? Almost definitely not, because cruelty against animals is not deemed as awful as cruelty against humans. So, as Zouma is a multi-million pound asset to West Ham, there will not be much of a punishment, apart from maybe a little fine and a few dodgy chants from the terraces. Greenwood is also a multi-million pound asset, but he has crossed the line and thus he experiences much more severe consequences.

Of course, the investigation into Greenwood has not yet found him guilty, so it would be jumping to conclusions is assuming he has anything to admit to yet.
		
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No he wouldn't be because greenwood would be (if guilty) a grade A* scumbag the lowest of the low 

Where as zouma has crept into the scale at maybe a D+ or C- scumbag 

Still a scumbag but the fact the max in prison has just risen from 6 months to 5 years shows its not viewed as bad ..

If he wasn't a footballer it would probably have not registered as news .. where as greenwoods case regardless would ..


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## Orikoru (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			No he wouldn't be because greenwood would be (if guilty) a grade A* scumbag the lowest of the low

Where as zouma has crept into the scale at maybe a D+ or C- scumbag

Still a scumbag but the fact the max in prison has just risen from 6 months to 5 years shows its not viewed as bad ..

If he wasn't a footballer it would probably have not registered as news .. where as greenwoods case regardless would ..
		
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I'm now intrigued to see the first published scumbag league table. Where is Jimmy Carr at right now?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			And because Zouma didn't rape his cat! 

Out of interest, have you ever deliberately killed a wasp or a fly? Or is it just furry animals that are 'equal' to humans in your eyes?
But then, have you ever, or would you ever, lay a mousetrap if your home was infested? Or is is just pets that are equal?
Where do you personally draw the line on the concept that cruelty to animals should be treated the same as cruelty to humans?
		
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Again, a very good point. But note, I have not demanded where the parameters should be set. And, I do not have the answers to where the parameters should be set. I have simply stated that cruelty against animals is deemed less awful that cruelty against humans. Many of the responses, such as yours, simply back that up.

The rape allegation is a red herring, because I am pretty certain Greenwood, or any footballer, would be in deep deep trouble if they were filmed beating up their girlfriend for fun. 

Personally, I honestly do not think I've ever deliberately killed an animal. I hate wasps and spiders, but will move away from a wasp, and catch a spider in a glass and throw it out the window if it is in my house. Never had mice in my house either. But, where do I draw the line? Well, if somebody caught a mouse in a mouse trap, I would not judge them poorly, as I guess that is a necessary thing to do. If someone kicks their pet, or kicks a duck or other form of wildlife for a bit of a laugh, than I'd personally say they've easily crossed the line.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm now intrigued to see the first published scumbag league table. Where is Jimmy Carr at right now? 

Click to expand...

1st Greenwood 
2nd Boris Johnson 
3rd zouma 
4th piers corbyn
5th pier Morgan (just because)

Carr is like Burnley .. everyone is wanting him to be finished but will be fine


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## Bdill93 (Feb 8, 2022)

Where's Fragger when you need him? Asking for a friend......


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## Bdill93 (Feb 8, 2022)

Interested to see how Newcastle go for the rest of the season! First test for the new signings tonight against Everton - who have a few newbies themselves, manager included!


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Can we get back to football please gents, this is just an argument now 

Looking forward to getting back to Villa Park tomorrow night, feels like its been ages! Squad is fit and healthy and its going to be a very interesting second half of the season for Villa fans!
		
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Yeah, sweeping controversial football related incidents under the carpet:

I'm delighted the Premier League is back (I don't count Saturday's game, sorry Burnley fans). No doubt I'll be shouting at my screen tonight, and then providing a lengthy statement at how bad United were after the game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 8, 2022)

Back to football. Tonight, 1 car, 2 Toon fans, 1 Everton fan. Much tension.

Would it be wrong to make my wife and son walk 12 miles at 9.45pm if they are in a happy and bouyant mood?


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## phillarrow (Feb 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back to football. Tonight, 1 car, 2 Toon fans, 1 Everton fan. Much tension.

Would it be wrong to make my wife and son walk 12 miles at 9.45pm if they are in a happy and bouyant mood? 

Click to expand...

Not if they're the NUFC fans!  COYB!!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 8, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Not if they're the NUFC fans!  COYB!!!
		
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Hopefully they will be ones scowling in the car 

As long as someone puts ear plugs in Jordan's ears then I really fancy us tonight. I think Saturday will have done them the world of good and only the Toon fans getting to him, they manage it every season , will stop us from winning. (I may regret this confidence later )


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## Rlburnside (Feb 8, 2022)

This is getting ridiculous does it mean I can’t kick the cat after a bad round anymore. 😉


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## DanFST (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			kicks a duck or other form of wildlife for a bit of a laugh, than I'd personally say they've easily crossed the line.
		
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Do you like a hoisin wrap?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Do you like a hoisin wrap?
		
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Heaven forbid he goes to China ....


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Do you like a hoisin wrap?
		
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Are you just trying to give reasons for why you feel animal cruelty is not as bad as cruelty to humans? If so, keep going all you like, as you are just giving more reasons to clarify the original point I already made, in which I clearly stated this is what society thinks, and as such Zouma will be treated relatively lenient. Zouma is what made this topic connected to football, and I was interested in the implications to him, rather than where the line is in terms of animal cruelty. If you want to get into the depths of that, it really needs a new thread.

I might be surprised, maybe it'll turn out that yourself and many others enjoy drop kicking a cat across a room from time to time, feel there is no reason to get into trouble about it, and justify it claiming it is no worse than eating a burger or a hoisin wrap


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Are you just trying to give reasons for why you feel animal cruelty is not as bad as cruelty to humans? If so, keep going all you like, as you are just giving more reasons to clarify the original point I already made, in which I clearly stated this is what society thinks, and as such Zouma will be treated relatively lenient. Zouma is what made this topic connected to football, and I was interested in the implications to him, rather than where the line is in terms of animal cruelty. If you want to get into the depths of that, it really needs a new thread.

I might be surprised, maybe it'll turn out that yourself and many others enjoy drop kicking a cat across a room from time to time, feel there is no reason to get into trouble about it, and justify it claiming it is no worse than eating a burger or a hoisin wrap 

Click to expand...

Nobody has tried to justify zoumas actions

All you have done is brought greenwood into the debate who shouldn't even be linked to football right now.

Zouma will be punished, it wont be as severe

A better example would be say Gerrard, Andy Carroll and alike who have beaten up humans and still played football and in Gerrard's case been a hero


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## Jimaroid (Feb 8, 2022)

Very very excited for the match tonight. It's been a long time since I've felt anything like this buzzed ahead of a game.


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## DanFST (Feb 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Are you just trying to give reasons for why you feel animal cruelty is not as bad as cruelty to humans? If so, keep going all you like, as you are just giving more reasons to clarify the original point I already made, in which I clearly stated this is what society thinks, and as such Zouma will be treated relatively lenient. Zouma is what made this topic connected to football, and I was interested in the implications to him, rather than where the line is in terms of animal cruelty. If you want to get into the depths of that, it really needs a new thread.

I might be surprised, maybe it'll turn out that yourself and many others enjoy drop kicking a cat across a room from time to time, feel there is no reason to get into trouble about it, and justify it claiming it is no worse than eating a burger or a hoisin wrap 

Click to expand...


No one is arguing with you. No one cares about whataboutery, you brought one of your players into it, when it clearly isn't related at all. Finit.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Well there we go..he starts tonight


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## Piece (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well there we go..he starts tonight
		
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Surprised and disappointed tbh. He'll score as well tonight.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Piece said:



			Surprised and disappointed tbh. He'll score as well tonight.
		
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for me right call

face the music

otherwise his  "punishment" is hiding from the public


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			for me right call

face the music

otherwise his  "punishment" is hiding from the public
		
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Wrong call for me!
So looks like it’s ok to do this then just go to work.
His next game should be for Wormwood Scrubs Xl.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			On a side did this come as a massive shock to you as it did to me? I really thought he was a decent person. Always came across well liked
		
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I wouldn't have expected it of him, no.  Disappointing.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I wouldn't have expected it of him, no.  Disappointing.
		
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All the Chelsea people I know said he was well liked, and followed him at Stoke and Everton and both wanted to keep him as he was well liked and worked hard 

What a let down


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## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2022)

I do get puzzled with the use of Sancho. He gets a global reputation as an excellent right winger. United buy him, but then prefer Greenwood on right. I get that, due to the late purchase of Ronaldo.

However, Greenwood is unavailable, I'd have thought they'd slot Sancho in his favoured position. But no. Put Rashford on right, despite the fact he is usually on left, and then Sancho on left.

It is almost like they want Sancho to fail, or they think they need to think outside the box rather than going with the obvious. Or, maybe he just isn't very good on the right after all?


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## Crazyface (Feb 8, 2022)

Sorry to be a bit late to ask this, but I watch the West Ham game and I've watched the winning goal over and over. Why wasn't it offside? I've chacked the current rule and it seems to me the bloke who toe poked it home was in an offside position when he received the ball, or have I missed something?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2022)

Lampard is off and running as manager but what a scrappy goal. Not sure he'll care as long as he gets the win


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 8, 2022)

Just checked the BBC live text for the Newcastle v Everton game....

20:20 Jamaal Lascelles own goal 
20:22 Mason Holgate own goal

It's good of them to help each other out when both teams have been struggling to score goals.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just checked the BBC live text for the Newcastle v Everton game....

20:20 Jamaal Lascelles own goal
20:22 Mason Holgate own goal

It's good of them to help each other out when both teams have been struggling to score goals.
		
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Everton goal - header on goal was from Holgate 

Newcastle goal - header on goal was from Lascelles

😂😂


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just checked the BBC live text for the Newcastle v Everton game....

20:20 Jamaal Lascelles own goal
20:22 Mason Holgate own goal

It's good of them to help each other out when both teams have been struggling to score goals.
		
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And even better it was a Holgate shot that Lascelles diverted into his own net and a Lascelles header that Holgate diverted into his own net.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			And even better it was a Holgate shot that Lascelles diverted into his own net and a Lascelles header that Holgate diverted into his own net.
		
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Both farcical


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## Piece (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			for me right call

face the music

otherwise his  "punishment" is hiding from the public
		
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Not sure what music he is facing in a gentle home game against a relegation side. 🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Piece said:



			Not sure what music he is facing in a gentle home game against a relegation side. 🤷‍♂️
		
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The hostile every time he touches the ball. What else do you expect? Not like he is going to be beaten up is it

Altho the irony of so many people wanting him to be "done" on the pitch whilst being against violence ...


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2022)

30 goals already for Mitrovic this season.


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## Billysboots (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well it's not even a slap on the wrist is it? The police aren't bothering. Even with a video and an apology (so admitting it)
		
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With the greatest respect, it’s not really a police matter.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The hostile every time he touches the ball. What else do you expect? Not like he is going to be beaten up is it

Altho the irony of so many people wanting him to be "done" on the pitch whilst being against violence ...
		
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Zouma shouldn’t be anywhere near the pitch tonight- the club should have been seen to do something. It’s a poor decision and one that says that the game of football is more important than safety of pets/animals.

If anyone of us was caught doing it there there would be consequences


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 8, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			With the greatest respect, it’s not really a police matter.
		
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Absolute rubbish. Something that could lead to a prison sentence of up to 26 weeks is quite clearly a "police matter".

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/animal-cruelty-revised-2017/


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Absolute rubbish. Something that could lead to a prison sentence of up to 26 weeks is quite clearly a "police matter".

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/animal-cruelty-revised-2017/

Click to expand...

the RSPCA will investigate and can get him sent to prison


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## Billysboots (Feb 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Absolute rubbish. Something that could lead to a prison sentence of up to 26 weeks is quite clearly a "police matter".

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/animal-cruelty-revised-2017/

Click to expand...

Rubbish? No, it’s not. This should be prosecuted by the RSPCA, not the police.

But, hey, I was only a cop for nearly 30 years. What do I know?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Absolute rubbish. Something that could lead to a prison sentence of up to 26 weeks is quite clearly a "police matter".

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/animal-cruelty-revised-2017/

Click to expand...

I think it is totally a police matter and reflective perhaps of where resources are being targeted although with the video evidence from his post it's not like there is a lack of evidence and he admitted doing it so why not prosecute. Send out a message


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## Billysboots (Feb 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think it is totally a police matter and reflective perhaps of where resources are being targeted although with the video evidence from his post it's not like there is a lack of evidence and he admitted doing it so why not prosecute. Send out a message
		
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When I was a Detective Sergeant managing a city centre team of investigators, we occasionally received reports relating to animal cruelty. One of my responsibilities was the allocation of crime investigations to the most appropriate investigative resource.

Without exception I referred cases of animal cruelty, some far worse than this case, to the the local RSPCA, who were the most appropriate agency to investigate such offences. And without exception the RSPCA were happy to take ownership, occasionally with police support, but mostly without.

Sorry, but kicking a cat, whilst abhorrent, is not a police matter to investigate.


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## Hobbit (Feb 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Absolute rubbish. Something that could lead to a prison sentence of up to 26 weeks is quite clearly a "police matter".

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/animal-cruelty-revised-2017/

Click to expand...

No it may not be a Police matter. Depends on the animal and the crime. For example, abuse of a pet = RSPCA. Dangerous dog/banned breed = Police. The RSPCA have the power to prosecute.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			When I was a Detective Sergeant managing a city centre team of investigators, we occasionally received reports relating to animal cruelty. One of my responsibilities was the allocation of crime investigations to the most appropriate investigative resource.

Without exception I referred cases of animal cruelty, some far worse than this case, to the the local RSPCA, who were the most appropriate agency to investigate such offences. And without exception the RSPCA were happy to take ownership, occasionally with police support, but mostly without.

Sorry, but kicking a cat, whilst abhorrent, is not a police matter to investigate.
		
Click to expand...

What are the conviction rates for RSPCA cases going to court? I understand what you are saying in terms of allocating resources and it makes perfect sense. What I don't know, is how successful in the scheme of things are the RSPCA in getting the case to court and a guilty verdict?


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## Billysboots (Feb 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What are the conviction rates for RSPCA cases going to court? I understand what you are saying in terms of allocating resources and it makes perfect sense. What I don't know, is how successful in the scheme of things are the RSPCA in getting the case to court and a guilty verdict?
		
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I’ve no idea, as I never followed cases to Court. But I do know that the RSPCA locally regularly pursue animal cruelty cases through the Courts.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			30 goals already for Mitrovic this season.
		
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He liked to “put it about” against City. Is he like that every game Homer.He was a handful at times.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 8, 2022)

This is going well. 🚾


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## Hobbit (Feb 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What are the conviction rates for RSPCA cases going to court? I understand what you are saying in terms of allocating resources and it makes perfect sense. What I don't know, is how successful in the scheme of things are the RSPCA in getting the case to court and a guilty verdict?
		
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Just under 1,500 successful prosecutions originating from RSPCA investigations last year.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He liked to “put it about” against City. Is he like that every game Homer.He was a handful at times.
		
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Can have the odd day when he doesn't look interest. A beast at this level but he needs to step up next season if we go up. I think he must have had a falling out with Parker last year as he didn't look interested or up for it. He only played 27 games and 14 were as sub


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			This is going well. 🚾
		
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Super Frank Lampard ? 🤔😁


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## Jimaroid (Feb 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Super Frank Lampard ? 🤔😁
		
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We’re sounds like Frank. Scrappy fight of a game and Newcastle deserved it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 8, 2022)

The better team on the night deservedly won.


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## Beezerk (Feb 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back to football. Tonight, 1 car, 2 Toon fans, 1 Everton fan. Much tension.

Would it be wrong to make my wife and son walk 12 miles at 9.45pm if they are in a happy and bouyant mood? 

Click to expand...

Drive carefully mate 👍😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			We’re sounds like Frank. Scrappy fight of a game and Newcastle deserved it.
		
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That’s the sort of scrappy games you’re going to have - Newcastle were up for it , your boys just seemed second to everything and lacking any spirit or fight 

Have to say what a shocking performance from Delle Ali - embarrassing


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## Piece (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The hostile every time he touches the ball. What else do you expect? Not like he is going to be beaten up is it

Altho the irony of so many people wanting him to be "done" on the pitch whilst being against violence ...
		
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Hostility from his home fans? 🤣🤣. 

I dont want him done on the pitch. I expect him not to be playing, his employers should have made him accountable for his actions. But hey, I guess it was more important that he picked up his appearance fee and win bonus 👍


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## nickjdavis (Feb 8, 2022)

St.Maximin an 11/10 performance tonight. All Everton could do was to kick him (when they got close enough to him that is)

Looks like Frank has lots of work to do....pretty spineless performance from Everton...didn't look like they were up for the fight.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			St.Maximin an 11/10 performance tonight. All Everton could do was to kick him.

Looks like Frank has lots of work to do....pretty spineless performance from Everton...didn't look like they were up for the fight.
		
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Did seem weak and struggled to threaten after going behind.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 8, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			The better team on the night deservedly won.
		
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They played harder than we did. Pretty much what I feared last week, good changes being made in Newcastle and they’re up for the fight.

We could do without more injuries.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2022)

Piece said:



			Hostility from his home fans? 🤣🤣.

I dont want him done on the pitch. I expect him not to be playing, his employers should have made him accountable for his actions. But hey, I guess it was more important that he picked up his appearance fee and win bonus 👍
		
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But how does not playing him actually punish him? He gets to sit at home and be paid ...real punishment that


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 8, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			They played harder than we did. Pretty much what I feared last week, good changes being made in Newcastle and they’re up for the fight.

We could do without more injuries.
		
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Like we agreed last week, Lampard wasn’t going to work miracles overnight, we never expected to win every game and as he said we have 18 games to go.

Newcastle fully deserved the win and they’ll take points off other teams.

I thought Lascelles was MoM for them, outstanding on the night.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s the sort of scrappy games you’re going to have - Newcastle were up for it , your boys just seemed second to everything and lacking any spirit or fight

Have to say what a shocking performance from Delle Ali - embarrassing
		
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He was poor. Van De Beek gave me some hope but Lascelle, Trippier and Saint Maximin ripped us apart. 

We need more time, not sure we’ll get it.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			But how does not playing him actually punish him? He gets to sit at home and be paid ...real punishment that
		
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Cats lives matter 👍


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## Slime (Feb 8, 2022)

United ............................ oh dear.
They really are a difficult watch and the sooner this season is over, the better.
The make me want to support Derby County!


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 8, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Rubbish? No, it’s not. This should be prosecuted by the RSPCA, not the police.

But, hey, I was only a cop for nearly 30 years. What do I know?
		
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Isnt there an similar analogy of referees knowing the rules, but not the game?


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## Billysboots (Feb 8, 2022)

Slime said:



			United ............................ oh dear.
They really are a difficult watch and the sooner this season is over, the better.
The make me want to support Derby County!
		
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I really have lost interest in this season. Some occasional bright individual moments, but another two points tossed away by not pressing home periods of superiority.

A very turgid and predictable watch, certainly second half.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 8, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Like we agreed last week, Lampard wasn’t going to work miracles overnight, we never expected to win every game and as he said we have 18 games to go.
		
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Yep. There were some positives to take. I liked what Van De Beek was trying to do in his small showing and Gordon just keeps getting better. I do think Frank can turn us around, I’ve not felt this confident in a manager for a long time.


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## Billysboots (Feb 8, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Isnt there an similar analogy of referees knowing the rules, but not the game? 

Click to expand...

Not in this case, no.

The refereeing mistakes we spend days arguing about on here often aren’t clear cut. What Colch is dismissing as “absolute rubbish” happens to be very simple. And he’s wrong.


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## 4LEX (Feb 8, 2022)

It's a good job Harry Maguire didn't get stuck in the Suez canal or they'd still be trying to get him out. Shocking display and the only defender who can get done twice by two different players for the same goal.


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 8, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Sorry to be a bit late to ask this, but I watch the West Ham game and I've watched the winning goal over and over. Why wasn't it offside? I've chacked the current rule and it seems to me the bloke who toe poked it home was in an offside position when he received the ball, or have I missed something?
		
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He was behind the ball when it was played, wasn’t he?

If you’re talking about Kidderminster game?

The only question was whether the player in front of the keeper was interfering with play, don’t think he was though


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## Foxholer (Feb 8, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Sorry to be a bit late to ask this, but I watch the West Ham game and I've watched the winning goal over and over. Why wasn't it offside? I've chacked the current rule and *it seems to me the bloke who toe poked it home was in an offside position when he received the ball*, or have I missed something?
		
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He certainly was! But it is only an offence if that was the case *when the ball was played or touched by a team-mate*. As that was NOT the case in that incident, there is no offence!


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## Piece (Feb 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			But how does not playing him actually punish him? He gets to sit at home and be paid ...real punishment that
		
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Sit at home and *not* get paid for a month 👍 Or if not sitting at home then sweeping out at a cattery. 😁 Get that on TikTok 😆


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## AliMc (Feb 9, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			St.Maximin an 11/10 performance tonight. All Everton could do was to kick him (when they got close enough to him that is)

Looks like Frank has lots of work to do....pretty spineless performance from Everton...didn't look like they were up for the fight.
		
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But I thought that they signed the Scottish wonderkid from Rangers, has he not saved them yet .......


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## BiMGuy (Feb 9, 2022)

Classy from West Ham.


Canary_Yellow said:



			He was behind the ball when it was played, wasn’t he?

If you’re talking about Kidderminster game?

The only question was whether the player in front of the keeper was interfering with play, don’t think he was though
		
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He was stood a foot away from the keeper directly in front of him, in a position that prevent he keeper an opportunity to block the cross. And had to jump out of the way of the ball. How is that not interfering with play?


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Classy from West Ham.


He was stood a foot away from the keeper directly in front of him, in a position that prevent he keeper an opportunity to block the cross. And had to jump out of the way of the ball. How is that not interfering with play?
		
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I think the interfering with play rule is a stupid one, and hard to apply consistently. 

The reason I thought it was ok though was because the keeper went down at his near post Expecting a shot, the positioning of that player didn’t influence him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Drive carefully mate 👍😂
		
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I decided the safest option was to hand over the car keys and sit in the back seat 😄.

Well, we managed to give Newcastle a bucket full of confidence by the end of the night. We even managed to make Lascelles look good 😳. 

Frank clearly picked up the Marco Silva coaching handbook that had been left in his office and decided to try chapter 1, play from the back whatever the situation. I can't remember how many triangles we tried to play on the edge of our penalty area, how many times we gave Newcastle the ball unnecessarily. Crazy stuff. 

We started with a selection of pace merchants up front, Richarlison, Gray, Townsend, Gordon and then proceeded to play from the back at a snail's pace, giving them no space to play in . Richarlison clearly worked this out and then decided not to bother . Having two players go off injured in the first half certainly hurt as that meant we couldn't hook him when we needed to.

The two redeeming performances last night were Gordon and Van de Beek. VdB replaced Gomes, the game sadly passed him by, and was bright, available, sharp, tidy. I doubt he gave the ball away at any stage. If he doesn't start at the weekend then something is very wrong. 

Still worrying times but hopefully Frank re watches the game today and learns a great deal from it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

AliMc said:



			But I thought that they signed the Scottish wonderkid from Rangers, has he not saved them yet .......
		
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We didn't start any of our January signings last night. Here we go again.............


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 9, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Not in this case, no.

The refereeing mistakes we spend days arguing about on here often aren’t clear cut. *What Colch is dismissing as “absolute rubbish” happens to be very simple. And he’s wrong.*

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You'd better let both Surrey and Essex police know that it's not a matter for them. They have both started investigations into what happened. If it's not a police matter why are two separate police forces investigating?


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## Neilds (Feb 9, 2022)

Another fine win for United (Rotherham - there are more than one!) and now 9 points clear at the top of League One.  Wigan have 3 games in hand but we are due to play them at home in 9 days time so will be a good match.  We may also meet them at Wembley in the final of the Papa John's Trophy as both in the semis


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## Jimaroid (Feb 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Richarlison clearly worked this out and then decided not to bother . Having two players go off injured in the first half certainly hurt as that meant we couldn't hook him when we needed to.
		
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From the telly clapper perspective Richi didn’t seem all that bad and it seemed he put in a fair effort. He had some good moments and ran some rings around Schar. But without anyone to play any ball through to him for most of the match, yeah, maybe he gave up. He did scuff a good opportunity too. 

We were really bad from the back again. I was biting my sofa every time Keane had the ball. And Pickford’s constant flapping at getting the ball back in play was not helping confidence. 

Oh well. Said as much as I can on it now. Hopefully that’s shown Lampard where we need the work put in. I do think there was a lot of good in the game to take away, we just met a much better team. Newcastle were good to watch.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 9, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			You'd better let both Surrey and Essex police know that it's not a matter for them. They have both started investigations into what happened. If it's not a police matter why are two separate police forces investigating?
		
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Power of the people 
Shout loud enough and something will be done.
He said it was a one off I seriously doubt that.


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			You'd better let both Surrey and Essex police know that it's not a matter for them. They have both started investigations into what happened. If it's not a police matter why are two separate police forces investigating?
		
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Shouldn't be a long 'investigation', there's video evidence of him doing it??


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			From the telly clapper perspective Richi didn’t seem all that bad and it seemed he put in a fair effort. He had some good moments and ran some rings around Schar. But without anyone to play any ball through to him for most of the match, yeah, maybe he gave up. He did scuff a good opportunity too.

We were really bad from the back again. I was biting my sofa every time Keane had the ball. And Pickford’s constant flapping at getting the ball back in play was not helping confidence.

Oh well. Said as much as I can on it now. Hopefully that’s shown Lampard where we need the work put in. I do think there was a lot of good in the game to take away, we just met a much better team. Newcastle were good to watch.
		
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I probably have a bit of a downer on Richi as he seems to choose when he turns up or not. You may well be right in the effort put in, it just didn't lead to anything. I don't think he works well as a lone striker, he needs DCL up there to do that job and he can feed off him.

I was sat in the Toon fans and I am experienced enough not to jump when we scored and to stand and clap when they did. I struggled to contain my annoyance at the continual giving away of the ball from the back though, that was too much. I'm surprised a steward wasn't called over . Absolute football suicide, it's what cost Silva his job. My son mentioned afterwards that we had over 60% of possesion according to the stats. All pointless if it is at the top of your own penalty area and it ends by you handing it to the opposition midfield


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I probably have a bit of a downer on Richi as he seems to choose when he turns up or not. You may well be right in the effort put in, it just didn't lead to anything. I don't think he works well as a lone striker, he needs DCL up there to do that job and he can feed off him.

I was sat in the Toon fans and I am experienced enough not to jump when we scored and to stand and clap when they did. I struggled to contain my annoyance at the continual giving away of the ball from the back though, that was too much. I'm surprised a steward wasn't called over . Absolute football suicide, it's what cost Silva his job. My son mentioned afterwards that we had over 60% of possesion according to the stats. All pointless if it is at the top of your own penalty area and it ends by you handing it to the opposition midfield 

Click to expand...

I don’t disagree with anything you say, but I really wouldn’t look too deep in to last nights performance, if we’d of beat Norwich Benitez would of still been in charge and we’d of still most likely been beat, why do I think that? Because in all honesty, sometimes in football, the better team on the night wins and deservedly so, even your point about giving the ball away at the back was most of the time down to how Newcastle set up and their pressing, Howe got them working hard and you can see how he’s improved them over the 10+ games he’s been in charge.

We are in a mess and we have to give Lampard time. Watching them in training and then on the pitch he will of learnt a lot, plus the bad luck with injuries is continuing for him.


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## Beezerk (Feb 9, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Another fine win for United (Rotherham - there are more than one!) and now 9 points clear at the top of League One.  Wigan have 3 games in hand but we are due to play them at home in 9 days time so will be a good match.  We may also meet them at Wembley in the final of the Papa John's Trophy as both in the semis
		
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Ahem, no thanks for SWFC doing you a huge favour last night? 😘


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## Neilds (Feb 9, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Ahem, no thanks for SWFC doing you a huge favour last night? 😘
		
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Will thank you on Sunday when we beat you live on Sky


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## Tashyboy (Feb 9, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Will thank you on Sunday when we beat you live on Sky 

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just been to daughters house re skool run. Her partner is an Owls fan. He is excited re this weekends game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t disagree with anything you say, but I really wouldn’t look too deep in to last nights performance, if we’d of beat Norwich Benitez would of still been in charge and we’d of still most likely been beat, why do I think that? Because in all honesty, sometimes in football, the better team on the night wins and deservedly so,* even your point about giving the ball away at the back was most of the time down to how Newcastle set up and their pressing*, Howe got them working hard and you can see how he’s improved them over the 10+ games he’s been in charge.

We are in a mess and we have to give Lampard time. Watching them in training and then on the pitch he will of learnt a lot, plus the bad luck with injuries is continuing for him.
		
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Surely though, when you see that then you adapt. We kept doing the same thing over and over and it was easy for Newcastle, we were predictable. Agree about Howe, he is doing a good job. Newcastle are becoming harder to beat, Trippier is a strong signing and in Saint Maximim they have a match winner. Funnily enough, the Toon fans around me spent half their time slagging him for getting caught in possesion and the other half praising for going past players. Fans 

The one thing I didn't mention, seen it at both games I have been at recently, the atmosphere at St James is entirely different than it has been for 5yrs+. So much more bouyant, noisier, behind the team. Significantly different to how it has been for some time, a positive, not a negative. (apart from the entirely sexist and 70's throwback chant at a female Everton fan in the second half which was shameful and by a fair chunk of supporters )


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## Beezerk (Feb 9, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Will thank you on Sunday when we beat you live on Sky 

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That’s big talk from a little club fan 😂


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			But how does not playing him actually punish him? He gets to sit at home and be paid ...real punishment that
		
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Imo.
He should be in court and given community service on every day West Ham play for the rest of the season.
That way if he is missing from work he should not be paid.
But not holding my breath.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 9, 2022)

No comments on the Rooney interview, or have I missed them?
FA look for answers from Rooney


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Classy from West Ham.


He was stood a foot away from the keeper directly in front of him, in a position that prevent he keeper an opportunity to block the cross. And had to jump out of the way of the ball. How is that not interfering with play?
		
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Yes your right ,but the keeper dived the other way to the near post.
But can’t see how a player two yds off the goal line in the middle of the goal isn’t interfering.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			It's a good job Harry Maguire didn't get stuck in the Suez canal or they'd still be trying to get him out. Shocking display and the only defender who can get done twice by two different players for the same goal.
		
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Yeah, I thought he might get through the game with a fairly solid display. But, he was absolutely done for the goal, and his mobility is just about the worst I've seen when he needs to change direction quickly. I'm always surprised to see how slow McTomminay is, which has been highlighted to me in the last few games. When teams counter us, and players (United players and opposition players) run towards our goal, everyone just seems to be running 10-20% faster than McTomminay, even the guy on the ball.

I can see why Varane's goal was ruled out, but a little disappointed with the og after. Pogba and the defender just ran into each other going for the ball. Pogba's arms, at that point, were either side of defender, but that is just where they were. He was not grabbing or pulling the defender. However, it is still no excuse for not being able to beat an awful Burnley side.

I though Sancho had some good moments, so I'm hopeful his confidence will grow.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			No comments on the Rooney interview, or have I missed them?
FA look for answers from Rooney

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Why would he say that? It happened, he got away with it. Now he needs to get charged for bringing the game into disrepute in the same way Keane did. I bet Derby are chuffed to bits he included that in his book


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Surely though, when you see that then you adapt. We kept doing the same thing over and over and it was easy for Newcastle, we were predictable. Agree about Howe, he is doing a good job. Newcastle are becoming harder to beat, Trippier is a strong signing and in Saint Maximim they have a match winner. Funnily enough, the Toon fans around me spent half their time slagging him for getting caught in possesion and the other half praising for going past players. Fans 

The one thing I didn't mention, seen it at both games I have been at recently, the atmosphere at St James is entirely different than it has been for 5yrs+. So much more bouyant, noisier, behind the team. Significantly different to how it has been for some time, a positive, not a negative. (apart from the entirely sexist and 70's throwback chant at a female Everton fan in the second half which was shameful and by a fair chunk of supporters )
		
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That comes back to player confidence and other options becoming available, ie players moving out of position etc.

I genuinely don’t get the love in for Maximim, far too inconsistent and wasteful, yes he does some great runs, but the end product isn’t there, great when they are winning, but like you saw, they’re not happy when they’re not. Almost Traore like at Wolves.

Lampard has mentioned the atmosphere at Goodison and it being important for home games.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why would he say that? It happened, he got away with it. Now he needs to get charged for bringing the game into disrepute in the same way Keane did. I bet Derby are chuffed to bits he included that in his book 

Click to expand...

Yeah, seems silly. Or, he doesn't mind because he knows the gain he gets from the publicity will be better than what he loses in terms of a fine?

We all know players try and hurt their opponents. Denying that is naive. Hopefully none go out to break a players leg, but they go in to cause pain frequently. It is part of the game. It unsettles opponents, can make them nervous and edgy. As a footballer, who would you rather play against? A team of players that don't want to put in hard challenges, or a team that will go in for hard aggressive challenges as soon as the ball arrives at your feet (or sometimes before)?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I genuinely don’t get the love in for Maximim, far too inconsistent and wasteful, yes he does some great runs, but the end product isn’t there, great when they are winning, but like you saw, they’re not happy when they’re not. Almost Traore like at Wolves.
		
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In a team with no attacking flair he is the game changer. Newcastle are woeful in creating chances but give him the ball in the top third and let him run and things happen. Yes, much is wasted and he wouldn't get away with that in a better team but he is not in a better team. Don't also forget, when he gets the ball teams surround him with 2-3 players, leaving others with more space. His next step is to know when to release the ball to make use of that space he has created. That is Howe's job now.

I'd agree with your Traore comparison and I'd have him like a shot. You can't have a team full of those players but one can be a load of fun.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, seems silly. Or, he doesn't mind because he knows the gain he gets from the publicity will be better than what he loses in terms of a fine?

We all know players try and hurt their opponents. Denying that is naive. Hopefully none go out to break a players leg, but they go in to cause pain frequently. It is part of the game. It unsettles opponents, can make them nervous and edgy. As a footballer, who would you rather play against? A team of players that don't want to put in hard challenges, or a team that will go in for hard aggressive challenges as soon as the ball arrives at your feet (or sometimes before)?
		
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I get all of that but to put it out there is brainless imo. It's almost a macho thing whereas in reality it is a thug thing.

The fine wont bother him but hopefully the ban that comes his way will, as well as the damage to his reputation.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In a team with no attacking flair he is the game changer. Newcastle are woeful in creating chances but give him the ball in the top third and let him run and things happen. Yes, much is wasted and he wouldn't get away with that in a better team but he is not in a better team. Don't also forget, when he gets the ball teams surround him with 2-3 players, leaving others with more space. His next step is to know when to release the ball to make use of that space he has created. That is Howe's job now.

I'd agree with your Traore comparison and I'd have him like a shot. You can't have a team full of those players but one can be a load of fun.
		
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Mate, he’s missed 1 game all season in which last night was only their 3rd win, I’m not sure I’d call him a game changer, maybe a luxury player, who will have his moments.

Villa at St James’s park on sunday will be a lot stiffer test.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, he’s missed 1 game all season in which last night was only their 3rd win, I’m not sure I’d call him a game changer, maybe a luxury player, who will have his moments.

Villa at St James’s park on sunday will be a lot stiffer test.
		
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Villa wont be worse than us, that's for sure.

What other attacking threats do they have without him? Not just goals that he scores, maybe not many, but direct assists and also assists following the mayhem he causes. They offer very little else, they really don't. 

I like a luxury player, I'd still have James at the club. Teams need a player, imo, that offers something different to the rest of the team.


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## Hobbit (Feb 9, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			That comes back to player confidence and other options becoming available, ie players moving out of position etc.

I genuinely don’t get the love in for Maximim, far too inconsistent and wasteful, yes he does some great runs, but the end product isn’t there, great when they are winning, but like you saw, they’re not happy when they’re not. Almost Traore like at Wolves.

Lampard has mentioned the atmosphere at Goodison and it being important for home games.
		
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But if a goal was scored every time Maximim or Traore went on a mazy run their teams would score a half a dozen goals a game. So the opposition get the ball off them in their own half, so what, they’re not going to score from 70yds.

Every team you watch gets into the opposition half quite often but rarely score, even the very best teams. Watching some of the match yesterday I asked myself several times, where are the players that should be up there with Maximim to receive the ball off him?


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## Bdill93 (Feb 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



*Villa wont be worse than us, that's for sure.*

What other attacking threats do they have without him? Not just goals that he scores, maybe not many, but direct assists and also assists following the mayhem he causes. They offer very little else, they really don't.

I like a luxury player, I'd still have James at the club. Teams need a player, imo, that offers something different to the rest of the team.
		
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I hope not  We need some points on the board - champions league is still on the cards....


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Watching some of the match yesterday I asked myself several times, where are the players that should be up there with Maximim to receive the ball off him?
		
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Newcastle don't attack as a unit. It gets pumped up to Wood, no one is near him, it gets pinged out to SM, it's the same. Better teams attack in groups so that players have more space to work in, spreads the defence out. If SM started to get more help, more players around him, a full back that could overlap, then maybe he wouldn't have to run up blind alleys so often.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 9, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			But if a goal was scored every time Maximim or Traore went on a mazy run their teams would score a half a dozen goals a game. So the opposition get the ball off them in their own half, so what, they’re not going to score from 70yds.

Every team you watch gets into the opposition half quite often but rarely score, even the very best teams. Watching some of the match yesterday I asked myself several times, where are the players that should be up there with Maximim to receive the ball off him?
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			Newcastle don't attack as a unit. It gets pumped up to Wood, no one is near him, it gets pinged out to SM, it's the same. Better teams attack in groups so that players have more space to work in, spreads the defence out. If SM started to get more help, more players around him, a full back that could overlap, then maybe he wouldn't have to run up blind alleys so often.
		
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Wilson is injured, they’ve bought Woods, I’d be surprised if he’s in their starting XI when the full squad is available.

Bring him off the bench and hope he is the game changer.

He’s not a player for chasing back and against the top teams he gets found out.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 9, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Wilson is injured, they’ve bought Woods, I’d be surprised if he’s in their starting XI when the full squad is available.

Bring him off the bench and hope he is the game changer.

He’s not a player for chasing back and against the top teams he gets found out.
		
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The only reason I can think of buying Woods is to deprive Burnley of a player who might help them avoid relegation

Smart move by Newcastle but I hope the Arabs still get relegated 

Sorry to any Toon fans but that’s the way I feel. .


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## Bdill93 (Feb 9, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			The only reason I can think of buying Woods is to deprive Burnley of a player who might help them avoid relegation

Smart move by Newcastle but I hope the Arabs still get relegated

Sorry to any Toon fans but that’s the way I feel. .
		
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Weghorst looked like a real player last night. I think they've done great business there personally!


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## Swango1980 (Feb 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Villa wont be worse than us, that's for sure.

What other attacking threats do they have without him? Not just goals that he scores, maybe not many, but direct assists and also assists following the mayhem he causes. They offer very little else, they really don't.

I like a luxury player, I'd still have James at the club. Teams need a player, imo, that offers something different to the rest of the team.
		
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I agree. I'd rather face Newcastle without Maxim that with him. I hated playing Wolves if Traore was playing. I'm sure many defenders would prefer not to face him than to face him. Unless it is clear that Newcastle are a much better attacking unit without him? I suspect not, I reckon Newcastle would lack a lot of threat without a player like Maxim. Unless there are a large amount of stats that can show that they are better without him? Having a quick google in 20/21 for 32 games (19 with, 13 without), they won 37% of goals with him, only 15% without. They averaged 1.3 games with, 0.8 without (coincidentally, the same numbers for points won).

So, to a neutral, he seems like a huge asset for Newcastle. Newcastle fans would be best placed to determine his influence. I only know one, and he absolutely loves the guy. Undoubtedly, he'll get tackled often, as he is often their only threat so the opposition can focus on stopping him. But, he doesn't hide away and always keeps them on their toes.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I agree. I'd rather face Newcastle without Maxim that with him. I hated playing Wolves if Traore was playing. I'm sure many defenders would prefer not to face him than to face him. Unless it is clear that Newcastle are a much better attacking unit without him? I suspect not, I reckon Newcastle would lack a lot of threat without a player like Maxim. Unless there are a large amount of stats that can show that they are better without him? Having a quick google in 20/21 for 32 games (19 with, 13 without), they won 37% of games with him, only 15% without. They averaged 1.3 games with, 0.8 without (coincidentally, the same numbers for points won).

So, to a neutral, he seems like a huge asset for Newcastle. Newcastle fans would be best placed to determine his influence. I only know one, and he absolutely loves the guy. Undoubtedly, he'll get tackled often, as he is often their only threat so the opposition can focus on stopping him. But, he doesn't hide away and always keeps them on their toes.
		
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Totally agree. Love players who just make you feel like they can change a game at any moment. 

The noise of chairs rattling back up as the fans stand is one of the greatest in football. St. Maxim delivers this in abundance.


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 9, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			The only reason I can think of buying Woods is to deprive Burnley of a player who might help them avoid relegation

Smart move by Newcastle but I hope the Arabs still get relegated

Sorry to any Toon fans but that’s the way I feel. .
		
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When you're at the bottom scrapping it out, you need the option to hit it long and have someone hold it up and relieve the pressure.

He's not going to score loads of goals, but he will hold it up, and he'll bring their other players, like ASM into play. They could even play two up top with him and Wilson if they wanted.

Just gives them options that they didn't have before, I think it will work. They're not going to turn into Brazil, last night was a good result but Everton are currently awful. Everton should be ok though as they have got the squad to go on a run of results at some point.

The thing that does change though with the teams at the bottom picking up points is sides that were seemingly well out of it, are not necessarily well out of it anymore. Brentford, Leeds and Palace have a decent buffer that could be eroded if they have a poor run over the next few games. I think Leeds and Palace should also both be fine, particularly Palace (their next two games could basically mean they're home and hosed), Brentford need to end their bad run as soon as possible and get some points from Palace, Newcastle, Norwich and Burnley (4 of their next 6 games).


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

Piece said:



			Sit at home and *not* get paid for a month 👍 Or if not sitting at home then sweeping out at a cattery. 😁 Get that on TikTok 😆
		
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They can't do that tho, that's the problem. We all sit here saying what they should do. But legally he is entitled to be paid and 2 weeks wages is max fine


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Imo.
He should be in court and given community service on every day West Ham play for the rest of the season.
That way if he is missing from work he should not be paid.
But not holding my breath.
		
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Again, there is what people would like to see happen and what the limits that can happen


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## Billysboots (Feb 9, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			You'd better let both Surrey and Essex police know that it's not a matter for them. They have both started investigations into what happened. If it's not a police matter why are two separate police forces investigating?
		
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They’ve probably got involved for the sole reason that the offender is high profile. This level of animal cruelty is simply not a police matter.


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## GB72 (Feb 9, 2022)

RSPCA have seized the cat, fined £250000.00 by the club and not playing the next match. Its a start.


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## GB72 (Feb 9, 2022)

Appears that Vitality have suspended sponsorship of West Ham over this as well.


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## AmandaJR (Feb 9, 2022)

GB72 said:



			RSPCA have seized the cat, fined £250000.00 by the club and not playing the next match. Its a start.
		
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I think whatever West Ham do now they've lost a huge amount of respect by playing him last night. Anything now seems empty and just reacting to the outrage rather than actually feeling outraged at his actions.


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## GB72 (Feb 9, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I think whatever West Ham do now they've lost a huge amount of respect by playing him last night. Anything now seems empty and just reacting to the outrage rather than actually feeling outraged at his actions.
		
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Worse, it appears that they are responding to their sponsors outrage


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## GB72 (Feb 9, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I think whatever West Ham do now they've lost a huge amount of respect by playing him last night. Anything now seems empty and just reacting to the outrage rather than actually feeling outraged at his actions.
		
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I agree about playing him last night but the problem is, as far as the club, and the club as a business, is concerned, I am not sure what they can do. They cannot just ditch a multi million pound assett, they cannot leave a multi million pound assett rotting in the reserves, they can only fine 2 weeks wages. I not saying I like it, it stinks, but I suppose the club is very limited on what it can do. 

Personally, I like the approach that Leicester Tigers used to take to poor player behaviour. If you were sent off and suspended or broke behaviour protocols you were made to work in club shop at weekends. Not known for his great disciplinary record, Lewis Moody was oftern seen manning a till on match day and he was England captain. meant the players had to stand there is listen to what the fans thought of their behaviour.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I think whatever West Ham do now they've lost a huge amount of respect by playing him last night. Anything now seems empty and just reacting to the outrage rather than actually feeling outraged at his actions.
		
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Moyes was right tho. Until the club's procedure had been followed he was available for selection so he picked him. Now the outcome of that is a suspension, and a fine. 

That was prob the max limit under his contract you could do.. unfortunately employment rights come into play even if people are awful


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I agree about playing him last night but the problem is, as far as the club, and the club as a business, is concerned, I am not sure what they can do. They cannot just ditch a multi million pound assett, they cannot leave a multi million pound assett rotting in the reserves, they can only fine 2 weeks wages. I not saying I like it, it stinks, but I suppose the club is very limited on what it can do.

Personally, I like the approach that Leicester Tigers used to take to poor player behaviour. If you were sent off and suspended or broke behaviour protocols you were made to work in club shop at weekends. Not known for his great disciplinary record, Lewis Moody was oftern seen manning a till on match day and he was England captain. meant the players had to stand there is listen to what the fans thought of their behaviour.
		
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If they sack him it's just writing off money 

He will go on to play somewhere .. maybe not here maybe abroad? 

But will be playing again so really the only loser there is the club and as you say it's a business


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## GB72 (Feb 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			If they sack him it's just writing off money

He will go on to play somewhere .. maybe not here maybe abroad?

But will be playing again so really the only loser there is the club and as you say it's a business
		
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That is why I like the more practical solutions. You cannot easily sack footballers, financial penalties mean nothing and so get him working at an animal shelter, let him see some serious victims of animal cruelty and let see if he can learn a lesson from this.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 9, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I agree about playing him last night but the problem is, as far as the club, and the club as a business, is concerned, I am not sure what they can do. They cannot just ditch a multi million pound assett, they cannot leave a multi million pound assett rotting in the reserves, they can only fine 2 weeks wages. I not saying I like it, it stinks, but I suppose the club is very limited on what it can do.

Personally, I like the approach that Leicester Tigers used to take to poor player behaviour. If you were sent off and suspended or broke behaviour protocols you were made to work in club shop at weekends. Not known for his great disciplinary record, Lewis Moody was oftern seen manning a till on match day and he was England captain. meant the players had to stand there is listen to what the fans thought of their behaviour.
		
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I don't think anyone (or most) would expect him to rot in the reserves indefinitely. However, had they not selected him for the immediate game from when the news broke, that would have sent out a message they took it very seriously. Then, when they had time to discuss the way forward, and how they expected things to pan out, they could have banned him for a few more games and fine him (and also give themselves time to see how the story is going down in the press, impacting sponsors, likelihood of any external investigations, etc.)

As you and Amanda said, by still selecting him last night, any action they take now just seems a shallow attempt to react to public outrage to playing him in the first place, and how sponsors are reacting.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

GB72 said:



			That is why I like the more practical solutions. You cannot easily sack footballers, financial penalties mean nothing and so get him working at an animal shelter, let him see some serious victims of animal cruelty and let see if he can learn a lesson from this.
		
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Yes I would prefer to see that 

Sacking him achieves nothing 

Football lost its way years ago

Gazza , best, Gerrard, Carroll , deeney , Barton all thugs 

Only one of them has never really been forgiven


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## Fade and Die (Feb 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			If they sack him it's just writing off money

He will go on to play somewhere .. maybe not here maybe abroad?

But will be playing again so really the only loser there is the club and as you say it's a business
		
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Crazy to talk about sacking him. If we did someone else would sign him tomorrow. 

Was surprised he was in the team last night as i think West Ham missed a trick to be proactive, now it seems we are just being reactive to the actions of our sponsors. Also looks like although West Ham do not condone cruelty to animals they did not to want to make a stand. Again it looks bad. 

I know what Moyes means when he says that he has to do the best for West Ham United and that meant picking Kurt. (TBH if he had picked Diop we would have lost) but I think it has inflamed the situation.

The Watford fans got stuck into him last night every time he touched the ball and some of their chanting was pretty funny but you know how partisan football fans are, the more they abused him the more the West Ham fans cheered him. I think a few of the journos i read this morning confused the chant of ZOOOOOOMA by the West Ham fans as booing as I read both sets of fans booed him This was not the case.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Crazy to talk about sacking him. If we did someone else would sign him tomorrow.

Was surprised he was in the team last night as i think West Ham missed a trick to be proactive, now it seems we are just being reactive to the actions of our sponsors. Also looks like although West Ham do not condone cruelty to animals they did not to want to make a stand. Again it looks bad.

I know what Moyes means when he says that he has to do the best for West Ham United and that meant picking Kurt. (TBH if he had picked Diop we would have lost) but I think it has inflamed the situation.

The Watford fans got stuck into him last night every time he touched the ball and some of their chanting was pretty funny but you know how partisan football fans are, the more they abused him the more the West Ham fans cheered him. I think a few of the journos i read this morning confused the chant of ZOOOOOOMA by the West Ham fans as booing as I read both sets of fans booed him This was not the case.
		
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This has the potential to be our "Suarez" moment  .. Liverpool backed him (at the time they believed it to be correct call) and they were hounded for it (even are now)

This will define us for ages I'm sure 

Hey if it gets peoples minds off the tevez affair and the tax payers stadium lol 😂


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## GB72 (Feb 9, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Crazy to talk about sacking him. If we did someone else would sign him tomorrow.

Was surprised he was in the team last night as i think West Ham missed a trick to be proactive, now it seems we are just being reactive to the actions of our sponsors. Also looks like although West Ham do not condone cruelty to animals they did not to want to make a stand. Again it looks bad.

I know what Moyes means when he says that he has to do the best for West Ham United and that meant picking Kurt. (TBH if he had picked Diop we would have lost) but I think it has inflamed the situation.

The Watford fans got stuck into him last night every time he touched the ball and some of their chanting was pretty funny but you know how partisan football fans are, the more they abused him the more the West Ham fans cheered him. I think a few of the journos i read this morning confused the chant of ZOOOOOOMA by the West Ham fans as booing as I read both sets of fans booed him This was not the case.
		
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Which is only added to by the fact that he was played for the home game last night with a less hostile atmosphere but has been suspended for the more hostile away game at Leicester on Sunday. May have nothing to do with it be easy to interpret events and decisions that way.


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## GB72 (Feb 9, 2022)

Thing is, do clubs not have PR departments. Nothing excuses what was done, it remains sickening, but the response would seem to be obvious, apology, significant personal donation to the RSPCA and Cat Protection League, some voluntary work, club gets involved in the charity PR or a local shelter and maybe some work with a shrink for the player, couple of matches suspended and I think they could have walked away from this.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 9, 2022)

Clubs don’t sack players for small incidents 

Major issues then yes but not these sort of things 

West Ham though should have taken the initiative

Suspended him , fine him the maximum and get him to do some charity work and also maybe a donation 

But they are now only reacting because of sponsers reacting and they know it’s now going to hit them in the pocket 

Him playing last night was more important to the club - suspect the sponsers are going to hit them in the pocket to suggest they should have made the first move


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## Swango1980 (Feb 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			This has the potential to be our "Suarez" moment  .. Liverpool backed him (at the time they believed it to be correct call) and they were hounded for it (even are now)

This will define us for ages I'm sure

Hey if it gets peoples minds off the tevez affair and the tax payers stadium lol 😂
		
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I think West Ham will be OK, this will probably blow over in a few weeks, although Zouma will get stick for longer. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if all the players wore T-Shirts with Zouma's face on it. But, who in their right mind would do that, it would be absurd... 

It was a difficult situation for Moyes. If he hadn't picked him, he'd be making a personal decision to punish him. That might not fit the expectations of his employers, who pay him to win football matches. So, I think the suggestion of dropping him last night might have had to be suggested by the club, and at least discussed with Moyes. I appreciate that owners should generally stay out of team selection completely, but I guess Moyes was stuck between a rock and a hard place.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			This has the potential to be our "Suarez" moment  .. Liverpool backed him (at the time they believed it to be correct call) and they were hounded for it (even are now)

This will define us for ages I'm sure

Hey if it gets peoples minds off the tevez affair and *the tax payers stadium lol* 😂
		
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Never forget we have Daniel Levi to thank for the freebie 

Now back to Zouma..... there is a very funny tiktok going around but Im not sure how to post it


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Thing is, do clubs not have PR departments. Nothing excuses what was done, it remains sickening, but the response would seem to be obvious, apology, significant personal donation to the RSPCA and Cat Protection League, some voluntary work, club gets involved in the charity PR or a local shelter and maybe some work with a shrink for the player, couple of matches suspended and I think they could have walked away from this.
		
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Whilst the investigation is on going playing him was the option , in a few weeks the RSPCA could have him banged up for a month being punished 

But then for some that wouldn't be enough and would want him kicked out the game completely


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Never forget we have Daniel Levi to thank for the freebie 

Now back to Zouma..... there is a very funny tiktok going around but Im not sure how to post it 

Click to expand...

Love how all my spurs mates are very self righteous about it.. erm how many small business suddenly burnt down when they refused to sell up for the NFL stadium 😂


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			No comments on the Rooney interview, or have I missed them?
FA look for answers from Rooney

Click to expand...

Apparently Rooney ended up getting those studs caught in the turf and going off injured. You couldn't make it up.


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 9, 2022)

Anybody any idea how the “cat video” ended up at The Sun Newspper? His brother allegedly took the video so did he pass it on to the paper or to his friends?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Anybody any idea how the “cat video” ended up at The Sun Newspper? His brother allegedly took the video so did he pass it on to the paper or to his friends?
		
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His brother is almost as big an idiot as him. He posted it to snap chat 🤣 what a moron


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## fundy (Feb 9, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Anybody any idea how the “cat video” ended up at The Sun Newspper? His brother allegedly took the video so did he pass it on to the paper or to his friends?
		
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dont know but at a guess; brother films video, thinks its funny, shares it with a few friends on whatsapp or similar, one of friends is either a) horrified or b) sees a chance to make a few quid or c) both so contacts the currant bun


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Clubs don’t sack players for small incidents

Major issues then yes but not these sort of things

West Ham though should have taken the initiative

Suspended him , fine him the maximum and get him to do some charity work and also maybe a donation

But they are now only reacting because of sponsers reacting and they know it’s now going to hit them in the pocket

Him playing last night was more important to the club - suspect the sponsers are going to hit them in the pocket to suggest they should have made the first move
		
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Do not think the RSPCA think it is a small incident Phil but I could be wrong


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Love how all my spurs mates are very self righteous about it.. erm how many small business suddenly burnt down when they refused to sell up for the NFL stadium 😂
		
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Let's be honest though, the London Stadium is bloody awful and Spurs' one is amazing.


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			dont know but at a guess; brother films video, thinks its funny, shares it with a few friends on whatsapp or similar, one of friends is either a) horrified or b) sees a chance to make a few quid or c) both so contacts the currant bun
		
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Seems logical Steve. More logical than dropping Anderson


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## AmandaJR (Feb 9, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Thing is, do clubs not have PR departments. Nothing excuses what was done, it remains sickening, but the response would seem to be obvious, apology, significant personal donation to the RSPCA and Cat Protection League, some voluntary work, club gets involved in the charity PR or a local shelter and maybe some work with a shrink for the player, couple of matches suspended and I think they could have walked away from this.
		
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Agreed. For me West Ham have always been a club I like to see do well, apart from against us! It's the romantic notion that they always played attractive football and of course the Bobby Moore effect. Not sure if my viewpoint is the norm but have always thought so generally (apart from those supporting other London clubs). They've misjudged this I think and should have left him out last night with a view to seeing what action the non footballing authorities were taking, then judge a suitable approach themselves.

No way would I like to see him sacked - a short suspension, a large fine and time and money spent supporting animal charities would be enough imo.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Let's be honest though, the London Stadium is bloody awful and Spurs' one is amazing.
		
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Defo


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 9, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Do not think the RSPCA think it is a small incident Phil but I could be wrong
		
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Yes in the grand scheme of things in regards actions that footballers have done it is small 

Doesn’t mean it’s not an awful incident and poor but it’s not on the same level we have seen over the years from sports people and they haven’t been sacked etc

Being sent to jail for rape , manslaughter etc are the sort of things that will get a player sacked


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## fundy (Feb 9, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Agreed. For me West Ham have always been a club I like to see do well, apart from against us! It's the romantic notion that they always played attractive football and of course the Bobby Moore effect. Not sure if my viewpoint is the norm but have always thought so generally (apart from those supporting other London clubs). They've misjudged this I think and should have left him out last night with a view to seeing what action the non footballing authorities were taking, then judge a suitable approach themselves.

No way would I like to see him sacked - a short suspension, a large fine and time and money spent supporting animal charities would be enough imo.
		
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You couldve written henry winters article for him Amanda 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...f?shareToken=6b8fc281757009ad682975a084027b4d


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Let's be honest though, the London Stadium is bloody awful and Spurs' one is amazing.
		
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The trophy rooms at each stadium are pretty similar though 😉😁


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## Hobbit (Feb 9, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Agreed. For me West Ham have always been a club I like to see do well, apart from against us! It's the romantic notion that they always played attractive football and of course the Bobby Moore effect. Not sure if my viewpoint is the norm but have always thought so generally (apart from those supporting other London clubs). They've misjudged this I think and should have left him out last night with a view to seeing what action the non footballing authorities were taking, then judge a suitable approach themselves.

No way would I like to see him sacked - a short suspension, a large fine and time and money spent supporting animal charities would be enough imo.
		
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Well said.

I also think West Ham missed a ‘trick’ with this. If they had suspended him for 2 weeks and fined him a week’s salary, which was donated to the RSPCA, the RSPCA might have accepted that as enough punishment. Maybe announced publically that justice had been served etc. As things stand currently, he’s still possibly going to face punishment. And West Ham will continue to be thought of as dodging it.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Well said.

I also think West Ham missed a ‘trick’ with this. If they had suspended him for 2 weeks and fined him a week’s salary, which was donated to the RSPCA, the RSPCA might have accepted that as enough punishment. Maybe announced publically that justice had been served etc. As things stand currently, he’s still possibly going to face punishment. And West Ham will continue to be thought of as dodging it.
		
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I do wonder if it had come out way before the game .. time for the internal Investigation to be concluded (ie covered themselves legally)


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491332290214957056
Why does he think it’s a good idea to share this information?
Thick as 🐖 💩


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## BrianM (Feb 9, 2022)

Behind the scenes at West Ham, I suppose if they finish in the top 4 the board will be quietly happy with their decision to play Zouma?
Not that I think it’s right he played.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 9, 2022)

Adidas have now withdrawn Zouma from their contracted athletes. It seems as many people outside of West Ham are distancing themselves quite rightly. Am I right in thinking two weeks is the maximum the club can fine a player


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Adidas have now withdrawn Zouma from their contracted athletes. It seems as many people outside of West Ham are distancing themselves quite rightly. Am I right in thinking two weeks is the maximum the club can fine a player
		
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See thats a better punishment, that really affects his pocket does a sponsor dropping him 

And they can do that a lot easier 

Heard puma are sniffing round


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## arnieboy (Feb 9, 2022)

Listening to a guy on Talksport the match was meant to celebrate the life of a young girl who passed away from cancer, the Zouma situation greatly detracted from the occasion.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Am I right in thinking two weeks is the maximum the club can fine a player
		
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Yes. It's agreed with the PFA.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Well said.

I also think West Ham missed a ‘trick’ with this. If they had suspended him for 2 weeks and fined him a week’s salary, which was donated to the RSPCA, the RSPCA might have accepted that as enough punishment. Maybe announced publically that justice had been served etc. As things stand currently, he’s still possibly going to face punishment. And West Ham will continue to be thought of as dodging it.
		
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That just sounds like a bung.
If the RSPCA have anything about them they will prosecute him.


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## 4LEX (Feb 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Weghorst looked like a real player last night. I think they've done great business there personally!
		
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He did look brilliant. Bullied Utd's defence and showed some moments of quality. It'll be interesting to see if he can do that week in, week out. If so an absolute steal.


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## Foxholer (Feb 9, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Crazy to talk about sacking him. If we did someone else would sign him tomorrow.

Was surprised he was in the team last night as i think West Ham missed a trick to be proactive, now it seems we are just being reactive to the actions of our sponsors. Also looks like although West Ham do not condone cruelty to animals they did not to want to make a stand. Again it looks bad.

I know what Moyes means when he says that he has to do the best for West Ham United and that meant picking Kurt. (TBH if he had picked Diop we would have lost) but I think it has inflamed the situation.

The Watford fans got stuck into him last night every time he touched the ball and some of their chanting was pretty funny but you know how partisan football fans are, the more they abused him the more the West Ham fans cheered him. I think a few of the journos i read this morning confused the chant of ZOOOOOOMA by the West Ham fans as booing as I read both sets of fans booed him This was not the case.
		
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I'm certainly surprised he played last night.
Very bad decision to not suspend him imo. Only real justification could have been 'short notice', but I'm pretty doubtful that was the case.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491319902891745281
😂😂😂😂


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## 4LEX (Feb 9, 2022)

I'll be careful how I put this but West Ham and Moyes are nothing short of disgusting for letting Zouma play last night. They showed the only thing that matters is results and money. I did a double take when I saw the line ups on Flashscores. As others have said, fine him two weeks wages and suspend him for two weeks. That sends out a message. Trying to pretend it was nothing and come out with the most feeble of apologies was embarrassing. All it's done is create more anger and a bigger spotlight. All for 3 points in a season where they'll tail off and finish about 8th.

It wouldn't be a one off, the text on SnapChat indicated it's a regular thing. If he does that to cats for a laugh, you wonder if he's been upto similar things as Greenwood and Mendy. I think we'll find out soon as any skeletons will be coming out.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I'll be careful how I put this but West Ham and Moyes are nothing short of disgusting for letting Zouma play last night. They showed the only thing that matters is results and money. I did a double take when I saw the line ups on Flashscores. As others have said, fine him two weeks wages and suspend him for two weeks. That sends out a message. Trying to pretend it was nothing and come out with the most feeble of apologies was embarrassing. All it's done is create more anger and a bigger spotlight. All for 3 points in a season where they'll tail off and finish about 8th.

It wouldn't be a one off, the text on SnapChat indicated it's a regular thing. If he does that to cats for a laugh, you wonder if he's been upto similar things as Greenwood and Mendy. I think we'll find out soon as any skeletons will be coming out.
		
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Do love the jump from throwing a slipper at a cat to raping a women 

What next? A shop lifter is one move away from murder?


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## 4LEX (Feb 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Do love the jump from throwing a slipper at a cat to raping a women

What next? A shop lifter is one move away from murder?
		
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He drop kicked a cat across the floor. Anyone that is capable of that is capable of far worse.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I'll be careful how I put this but West Ham and Moyes are nothing short of disgusting for letting Zouma play last night. They showed the only thing that matters is results and money. I did a double take when I saw the line ups on Flashscores. As others have said, fine him two weeks wages and suspend him for two weeks. That sends out a message. Trying to pretend it was nothing and come out with the most feeble of apologies was embarrassing. All it's done is create more anger and a bigger spotlight. All for 3 points in a season where they'll tail off and finish about 8th.

It wouldn't be a one off, the text on SnapChat indicated it's a regular thing. If he does that to cats for a laugh, you wonder if he's been upto similar things as Greenwood and Mendy. I think we'll find out soon as any skeletons will be coming out.
		
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you started off well but went off the rails a bit Frank Dobermanish….


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

Got to love the irony of Adidas dropping him ofc

Kick a cat , we are outraged we don't want you part of the family 

Have appalling human rights record ? Where do we sign up sponsoring a world cup there ...


----------



## fundy (Feb 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491319902891745281
😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...


I upset a few Everton fans with this earlier  utterly brilliant someone to dress up as T-rex arms behind his goal


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			I upset a few Everton fans with this earlier  utterly brilliant someone to dress up as T-rex arms behind his goal
		
Click to expand...

It's a blow up toy isn't it? A bit like the Man City bananas from the past. I could see it behind the goal last night, good fun. You have to laugh this stuff off. Best thing he could do next time he is at St James is to wear a t shirt with a picture of a t rex on it.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

Rumours circulating that Surrey police are involved now as it happened when he was playing for Chelsea

Might explain playing him? Dunno

However makes it even weirder that his brother uploaded it to snap chat


----------



## fundy (Feb 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a blow up toy isn't it? A bit like the Man City bananas from the past. I could see it behind the goal last night, good fun. You have to laugh this stuff off. Best thing he could do next time he is at St James is to wear a t shirt with a picture of a t rex on it.
		
Click to expand...


https://www.givemesport.com/8797058...HxDosKJn4Ldqq4bJoP8E9Wbn5MqUnprSl5mc6cIuNClwg


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a blow up toy isn't it? A bit like the Man City bananas from the past. I could see it behind the goal last night, good fun. You have to laugh this stuff off. Best thing he could do next time he is at St James is to wear a t shirt with a picture of a t rex on it.
		
Click to expand...

That’s just bullying, even TRexs have feelings.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2022)

fundy said:



https://www.givemesport.com/8797058...HxDosKJn4Ldqq4bJoP8E9Wbn5MqUnprSl5mc6cIuNClwg

Click to expand...

Fair play, that's brilliant 🤣. I hope the stewards let him stand on the concourse rather than stay in his seat. You wouldn't want to be behind him. Worse than Boy George's hat 🤭


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## birdyhunter (Feb 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			They showed the only thing that matters is results and money.
		
Click to expand...

You are correct..the only thing that matters in the Premier League is results and money.


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## 4LEX (Feb 9, 2022)

Coutinho running the show. Great goal and assist.


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## fundy (Feb 9, 2022)

Coutinho and Ramsey running riot for Villa


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Coutinho running the show. Great goal and assist.
		
Click to expand...

Could prove to be an excellent loan signing. I can't remember if there is an option to buy and what price tag was quoted but surely Villa need to explore that and get him signed permanently


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## BiMGuy (Feb 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Coutinho running the show. Great goal and assist.
		
Click to expand...

The defending for the first goal was awful. I’d be unhappy with my U12s conceding like that. 

The game could end up being 6 all


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## pauljames87 (Feb 9, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Could prove to be an excellent loan signing. I can't remember if there is an option to buy and what price tag was quoted but surely Villa need to explore that and get him signed permanently
		
Click to expand...

Yes and 33 million 

Sign him up


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## fundy (Feb 9, 2022)

lol at that dive from Mateta


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 9, 2022)

Steve Bruce hasn't lost it. West Brom losing again and I can see them missing the play-offs. Really enjoyed watching the Villa v Leeds game. Countinho excellent and impressed with Leeds resiliance


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## fundy (Feb 9, 2022)

oh so spursy


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## BiMGuy (Feb 9, 2022)

Villa rolling around and time wasting. Some teams just can’t deal with the intensity. 

While we just can’t do basic defending 🤦


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## fundy (Feb 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Villa rolling around and time wasting. Some teams just can’t deal with the intensity.

While we just can’t do basic defending 🤦
		
Click to expand...


lol Leeds players getting the game stopped for cramp


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2022)

What an utter joke. Royal and Sanchez, a pair of absolute comedians. Put a couple of basic far post crosses in and watch them poo their pants. Unreal that we just had a transfer window and bought no defenders. Christ it's going to be a long remainder of the season.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			What an utter joke. Royal and Sanchez, a pair of absolute comedians. Put a couple of basic far post crosses in and watch them poo their pants. Unreal that we just had a transfer window and bought no defenders. Christ it's going to be a long remainder of the season.
		
Click to expand...

Did we play footy this time? 😬


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## fundy (Feb 9, 2022)

martinez cheating again lol


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## Orikoru (Feb 9, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Did we play footy this time? 😬
		
Click to expand...

I only saw the second half so it was basically two crosses, two goals. 😣


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2022)

Great game at Villa.
Some very good finishing.
Even the ref did well.
Stupid from Konsa lucky it wasn’t a straight red .


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491347822461202432


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491364192859062276
Such a great warm up 😂


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## Foxholer (Feb 9, 2022)

Well, 2 or 3 games (or maybe fewer) into the 2nd half of the comp and, to me, it looks like the relegation trio are pretty much defined.
Might be a couple of visits into that zone from the candidates just above, but I can't see a miraculous climb out for the 3 current teams, even with Hodgons's undoubted skills.

Any contra thoughts?


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## Orikoru (Feb 10, 2022)

Why have you made this when we have a football thread?


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## Foxholer (Feb 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Why have you made this when we have a football thread?
		
Click to expand...

Separate specific (sub)topic; separate thread. Liable to get swamped in/by the general football thread
Certainly other examples about. The 'Footlball Prediction' one for example!


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## Orikoru (Feb 10, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Separate specific (sub)topic; separate thread. Liable to get swamped in/by the general football thread
Certainly other examples about. The 'Footlball Prediction' one for example!
		
Click to expand...

🤣 Don't be silly. We already discussed the relegation battle last week and I'm sure it will crop up again from time to time.


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## Neilds (Feb 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Why have you made this when we have a football thread?
		
Click to expand...

Because the football thread is more than just the Premier League!!!!



Or should be


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## Ethan (Feb 10, 2022)

Burnley, Watford and Norwich. Unfortunately Newcastle will probably escape. Everton need to be careful, but should escape too.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 10, 2022)

Id love Villa to be able to defend 

We were cruising last night, lost Buendia and fell apart. Leeds are nothing special, the same ball over the top every time just pulled us apart... awful from the CB's. 

Worst ref I've seen lace it up in the prem in a long time, totally lost control of the game. 

Coutinho and Ramsey are just ridiculous. 

We go again on Sunday!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Id love Villa to be able to defend 
. awful from the CB's.
		
Click to expand...

 For Sale. One CB.. good player.. keep away from cats


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## Orikoru (Feb 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Id love Villa to be able to defend 

We were cruising last night, lost Buendia and fell apart. Leeds are nothing special, the same ball over the top every time just pulled us apart... awful from the CB's.

Worst ref I've seen lace it up in the prem in a long time, totally lost control of the game.

Coutinho and Ramsey are just ridiculous.

We go again on Sunday!
		
Click to expand...

I'm hoping Salah doesn't play for Liverpool tonight, otherwise it will be the second time this season that Ramsey has been sat on my Fantasy League bench with double-figure points. 😣


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## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Id love Villa to be able to defend 

We were cruising last night, lost Buendia and fell apart. Leeds are nothing special, the same ball over the top every time just pulled us apart... awful from the CB's.

Worst ref I've seen lace it up in the prem in a long time, totally lost control of the game.

Coutinho and Ramsey are just ridiculous.

We go again on Sunday!
		
Click to expand...

A great game for us neutral's. 

I thought the referee had a very good game on the whole. We would usually see that break away for the 3rd Aston Villa goal blown up for a foul. Great decision.

If i were Gerrard, the next purchase would be a replacement for Mings. Overrated would be a compliment.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			For Sale. One CB.. good player.. keep away from cats
		
Click to expand...

That silly man can do one


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## Bdill93 (Feb 10, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			A great game for us neutral's.

I thought the referee had a very good game on the whole. We would usually see that break away for the 3rd Aston Villa goal blown up for a foul. Great decision.

If i were Gerrard, the next purchase would be a replacement for Mings. Overrated would be a compliment.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree about Mings. We are always better with him than without. He made a goal line clearance last night and the defensive mistakes were not all his.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Disagree about Mings. We are always better with him than without. He made a goal line clearance last night and the defensive mistakes were not all his.
		
Click to expand...

2 goals came from his error. The 1st was a standard pass he miscontrolled,then he was outjumped by the smallest man on the pitch. 

Even without those mistakes, he makes basic defensive errors that a international centre half should not make.

I seen him in another game earlier on in the season and he was just as bad. 

Good game nevertheless.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 10, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			2 goals came from his error. The 1st was a standard pass he miscontrolled,then he was outjumped by the smallest man on the pitch.

Even without those mistakes, he makes basic defensive errors that a international centre half should not make.

I seen him in another game earlier on in the season and he was just as bad.

Good game nevertheless.
		
Click to expand...

But he's often also class.

England are in a dip in talent at CB, we both know he wouldn't be there if there were a handful of English CB's that were actually any good.

Win percentage with Ming's is higher than it is lower, says it all for me


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## PNWokingham (Feb 10, 2022)

Still time foe Man United!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 10, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491718657927528450


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## babylonsinger (Feb 10, 2022)

Think the current bottom three will go down. Still plenty of time for twists and turns mind. Norwich do look like they've improved significantly under Smith (I can't have been the only one who had completely written them off early on?)

Brentford need to start picking some points up or they could be dragged into it - they have some huge fixtures coming up


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## Billysboots (Feb 10, 2022)

PNWokingham said:



			Still time foe Man United!
		
Click to expand...

We’re not _*that *_bad 😳


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## Swango1980 (Feb 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491718657927528450

Click to expand...

I appreciate Antonio is maybe trying to be profound, but he really isn't. He is just deflecting attention from what Zouma did, and trying to imply that this incident is being treated with more importance than a player caught being racist.

It isn't. There is no doubt in my mind that, if a player was filmed being racist, and it was posted for the world to see, the media / public reaction would be significant. And rightly so. I am pretty sure people would be shouting out for that player to be sacked as well, even if the official punishment may end up being a huge fine and an 8 game ban, or whatever. Although, to be honest I would be surprised if a club could keep a player on their books if the world had watched that player first hand being racist, the public image would be extremely toxic and sponsors would run a mile.

For Zoumas incident, yes some people are shouting out for him to be sacked, although I'd imagine the more widespread thought would be some sort of ban, fine and donation to animal welfare charity.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I appreciate Antonio is maybe trying to be profound, but he really isn't. He is just deflecting attention from what Zouma did, and trying to imply that this incident is being treated with more importance than a player caught being racist.

It isn't. There is no doubt in my mind that, if a player was filmed being racist, and it was posted for the world to see, the media / public reaction would be significant. And rightly so. I am pretty sure people would be shouting out for that player to be sacked as well, even if the official punishment may end up being a huge fine and an 8 game ban, or whatever. Although, to be honest I would be surprised if a club could keep a player on their books if the world had watched that player first hand being racist, the public image would be extremely toxic and sponsors would run a mile.

For Zoumas incident, yes some people are shouting out for him to be sacked, although I'd imagine the more widespread thought would be some sort of ban, fine and donation to animal welfare charity.
		
Click to expand...

Much like when Jamie carragher spat at that child and held onto his job? Seemed to blow over in a few weeks

Leeds kept bowyer after being filmed racially abusing an Asian MC Donald's worker .. conviction for affray

Then him and woodgate were done for assault with only woodgate getting convicted his career didn't suffer and it was forgotten

Bet Boris is grateful of a bit of deflection for a few weeks


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## Swango1980 (Feb 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Much like when Jamie carragher spat at that child and held onto his job? Seemed to blow over in a few weeks

Leeds kept bowyer after being filmed racially abusing an Asian MC Donald's worker .. conviction for affray

Then him and woodgate were done for assault with only woodgate getting convicted his career didn't suffer and it was forgotten

Bet Boris is grateful of a bit of deflection for a few weeks
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, although Bowyer and Woodgate incidents happened quite some time ago, when unfortunately issues with racism were treated more leniently. If those incidents happened with another player tomorrow, I suspect there would be mass public outrage. Especially if the public viewed the footage of these incidents.

In terms of Carragher, there were massive calls for him to be sacked. That incident probably caused more fuss than the Zouma incident at the time. Unlike West Ham, I believe Sky immediately suspended him, and he didn't return for around 5 months later? So, he did suffer the consequences. I'm sure many individuals still believe he should not have been allowed to return. Personally, I'm glad he did, even with my bias as a Utd fan. He seemed clearly remorseful, and he was given a second chance at a job he clearly loves and one that he obviously does well at.

To be fair, I didn't catch the interviewers question to Antonio, so my response was assuming she was simply asking him what he thought of the incident. If she had actually asked if he should be sacked, then his response would probably be more appropriate.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491718657927528450

Click to expand...

He literally played the Racism card 🤦🏻‍♂️

Also didn’t know he drove a taxi 😁


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## pauljames87 (Feb 10, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			He literally played the Racism card 🤦🏻‍♂️

Also didn’t know he drove a taxi 😁
		
Click to expand...

Well Kirkland didn't help by suggesting it was worse than rascism and has had to apologise for it

Not really a card when it's a major issue in the world tho


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## AmandaJR (Feb 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well Kirkland didn't help by suggesting it was worse than rascism and has had to apologise for it

Not really a card when it's a major issue in the world tho
		
Click to expand...

I heard that interview and thought at the time his views were a bit strong/skewed and it wouldn't go down well. I think he was trying to make the point that the cat was defenceless against the "attack".


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 10, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60330719

Interesting to see how this plays out.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well Kirkland didn't help by suggesting it was worse than rascism and has had to apologise for it

Not really a card when it's a major issue in the world tho
		
Click to expand...

I’ve only just read about Kirkland. What an idiot.


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 10, 2022)

Whos Going Down Thread Merged with main Footie thread

We dont need another Footie thread


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 10, 2022)

Must be a trend in football, was by Finch Farm earlier today when I saw the Everton squad playing football with a cat, was just about to phone the RSPCA when the cat went 1-0 up.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Must be a trend in football, was by Finch Farm earlier today when I saw the Everton squad playing football with a cat, was just about to phone the RSPCA when the cat went 1-0 up.
		
Click to expand...

Rent free Phil 

You’d of been better off say Everton’s Training ground as not many will know what Finch Farm is.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Rent free Phil

You’d of been better off say Everton’s Training ground as not many will know what Finch Farm is.
		
Click to expand...

Ah, that's the joy of copy paste. I got that one yesterday from my cousin, it's doing the rounds.

Apparently we're small and insignificant and yet we do seem to occupy so much of their time 🤔😆


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Must be a trend in football, was by Finch Farm earlier today when I saw the Everton squad playing football with a cat, was just about to phone the RSPCA when the cat went 1-0 up.
		
Click to expand...

First time on Merseyside Phil?
Good old satnav hey 😜😂😂


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## Hobbit (Feb 10, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Rent free Phil

You’d of been better off say Everton’s Training ground as not many will know what Finch Farm is.
		
Click to expand...

Everton have a training ground? Doesn’t show…


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## Jimaroid (Feb 10, 2022)

I heard Moshiri has made moves to buy the cat.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 10, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Everton have a training ground? Doesn’t show…

Click to expand...

Whaaat! Stick off a lower league club.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 10, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I heard Moshiri has made moves to buy the cat.
		
Click to expand...

That and the Dinosaur off the Mags!


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 10, 2022)

Kurt Zouma's brother has been suspended by Dagenham and Redbridge and won't play for them again until the RSPCA investigation has been completed. So the guy that kicks his cat around his kitchen has been allowed to play while the guy that filmed it has been suspended indefinitely until the end of the investigation. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60339439


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 10, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Kurt Zouma's brother has been suspended by Dagenham and Redbridge and won't play for them again until the RSPCA investigation has been completed. So the guy that kicks his cat around his kitchen has been allowed to play while the guy that filmed it has been suspended indefinitely until the end of the investigation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60339439

Click to expand...

One of them is worth millions to the club the other one isnt.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 10, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			One of them is worth millions to the club the other one isnt.
		
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that football clubs are more concerned with money than doing the right thing?


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 10, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Are you suggesting that football clubs are more concerned with money than doing the right thing? 

Click to expand...

🤔 never 😜


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 10, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Whaaat! Stick off a lower league club.

Click to expand...

You may not be saying that Paul next season if ‘Boro stay where they are!. However almost certain I will be wrong.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 10, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			You may not be say that Paul next season if ‘Boro stay where they are!
		
Click to expand...

So got to make the most of it while I can.

Funnily enough I had been getting a bit of banter off the Sunderland fans a few weeks back about playing them next season, strange how they’ve gone quiet recently.😬


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## Swango1980 (Feb 10, 2022)

So, Tuesday night Pogba and defender go for ball, clash and both miss it. Utd end up scoring, but disallowed. 

Tonight, Lacazette smashes into keeper, Arsenal score. Goal allowed. Consistent?


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## Foxholer (Feb 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			So, Tuesday night Pogba and defender go for ball, clash and both miss it. Utd end up scoring, but disallowed.

Tonight, Lacazette smashes into keeper, Arsenal score. Goal allowed. Consistent?
		
Click to expand...

Were the circumstances* exactly the same*? Or merely somewhat similar?!


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## Dando (Feb 10, 2022)

Diaz for Liverpool looks pretty decent


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			So, Tuesday night Pogba and defender go for ball, clash and both miss it. Utd end up scoring, but disallowed.

Tonight, Lacazette smashes into keeper, Arsenal score. Goal allowed. Consistent?
		
Click to expand...

Thought he nicked in ahead of the keeper. Especially when you see it in slow motion


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## fundy (Feb 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			So, Tuesday night Pogba and defender go for ball, clash and both miss it. Utd end up scoring, but disallowed.

Tonight, Lacazette smashes into keeper, Arsenal score. Goal allowed. Consistent?
		
Click to expand...


or if you actually watch it youll see Sa dive into Lacazette who got there first, but that doesnt fit the agenda.....


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## fundy (Feb 10, 2022)

Pretty poor first half, happy to be in front, as usual any bright sparks stemming from Saka and Martinelli. Central midfield exposed and as bad as always, both back from suspension and already in the book. Only one worse is Soares!! Be a long second half if nothing changes and/or we dont grab a second


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## Swango1980 (Feb 10, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Were the circumstances* exactly the same*? Or merely somewhat similar?!
		
Click to expand...

I was watching Liverpool game, so only switched over and saw it seemed to take an age to decide if it should count. Didn't see replay, as went back to Liverpool game. Switched over 5 or 10 minutes later, saw one replay and it looked a similar incident to the other night, I didn't notice if Lacazette got a touch. Commentator seemed to suggest it was controversial. So, was just asking if it was?


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## fundy (Feb 10, 2022)

Arsenal an utter embarrassment here  play acting, diving, moaning you name it. Sad to see

straight race between 3 of them as to which one gets themselves sent off now lol


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## fundy (Feb 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Arsenal an utter embarrassment here  play acting, diving, moaning you name it. Sad to see

*straight race between 3 of them as to which one gets themselves sent off now lol*

Click to expand...

and Martinelli steals in on the blind side from nowhere


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Arsenal an utter embarrassment here  play acting, diving, moaning you name it. Sad to see

straight race between 3 of them as to which one gets themselves sent off now lol
		
Click to expand...

Martinelli wins with two yellows in ten seconds. Is that a record


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## Dando (Feb 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Martinelli wins with two yellows in ten seconds. Is that a record
		
Click to expand...

I recall playing a Saturday Kent league game and a team mate got sent off about 15 seconds after coming on as a sub


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## Foxholer (Feb 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I was watching Liverpool game, so only switched over and saw it seemed to take an age to decide if it should count. Didn't see replay, as went back to Liverpool game. Switched over 5 or 10 minutes later, saw one replay and it looked a similar incident to the other night, I didn't notice if Lacazette got a touch. Commentator seemed to suggest it was controversial. So, was just asking if it was?
		
Click to expand...


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## pauljames87 (Feb 10, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Kurt Zouma's brother has been suspended by Dagenham and Redbridge and won't play for them again until the RSPCA investigation has been completed. So the guy that kicks his cat around his kitchen has been allowed to play while the guy that filmed it has been suspended indefinitely until the end of the investigation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60339439

Click to expand...

If this was some youth player or fringe player you can bet your house he would have been suspended or sacked. 

However its not. Its a very good player. So they will do everything to protect the money. thats the sad fact

also Daggers are just literally saving their own skin after the reaction from west hams decision they just like we can avoid the same and punish him.. they took ages to come to that.. they didnt have a game before that but they knew what Monday about it?


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## paddyc (Feb 10, 2022)

5 mins of injury time wtf


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## fundy (Feb 10, 2022)

paddyc said:



			5 mins of injury time wtf
		
Click to expand...


thought it would be more, been plenty of stoppages, arsenal been warned for time wasting several times, 6 subs and a red card

arsenal in no position to moan thats for sure


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 10, 2022)

I was genuinely concerned for Gabriel, Thought he dislocated his jaw or lost teeth the way he was in agony on the ground. Turns out there was no contact and he was straight up on his feet once ref made his decision and wasted enough time.


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## fundy (Feb 10, 2022)

standard 1-0 victory


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## paddyc (Feb 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			thought it would be more, been plenty of stoppages, arsenal been warned for time wasting several times, 6 subs and a red card

arsenal in no position to moan thats for sure
		
Click to expand...

Mate your a gooner not a Wolves fan a totally biased comment is required. A bit negative  tonight sir. Needs to improve!😁


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## Foxholer (Feb 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I was genuinely concerned for Gabriel, Thought he dislocated his jaw or lost teeth the way he was in agony on the ground. Turns out there was no contact and he was straight up on his feet once ref made his decision and wasted enough time.
		
Click to expand...

Would have loved to have seen a Red card for simulation then!


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## DanFST (Feb 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Arsenal an utter embarrassment here  play acting, diving, moaning you name it. Sad to see
		
Click to expand...

Not sure why you are surprised.


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## sunshine (Feb 10, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			He literally played the Racism card 🤦🏻‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

What exactly do you mean here? What is racism card and why the emoji?


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## Bazzatron (Feb 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			thought it would be more, been plenty of stoppages, arsenal been warned for time wasting several times, 6 subs and a red card

arsenal in no position to moan thats for sure
		
Click to expand...

Wasting time when drawing too, what's that all about? Very surprised at that.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 11, 2022)

sunshine said:



			What exactly do you mean here? What is racism card and why the emoji?
		
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Pretty obvious really Sunshine... Antonio was asked a question by a reporter about his team mate Zouma kicking his cat. Instead of answering the question he "Trumped" it with a question of his own "Is it worse than Racism?". He used the unrelated topic of Racism as a device to steer the conversation from a subject he was not happy to talk about to one he is.

The emoji is just a visual expression of exasperation  As Kick It Out CEO Tony Burnet says 'Racism comparisons not helpful'


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## Orikoru (Feb 11, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Pretty obvious really Sunshine... Antonio was asked a question by a reporter about his team mate Zouma kicking his cat. Instead of answering the question he "Trumped" it with a question of his own "Is it worse than Racism?". He used the unrelated topic of Racism as a device to steer the conversation from a subject he was not happy to talk about to one he is.

The emoji is just a visual expression of exasperation  As Kick It Out CEO Tony Burnet says 'Racism comparisons not helpful'
		
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Classic bit of whataboutery there. Like being arrested for theft and going "Answer me this though, is stealing as bad as murdering someone?? Is it??"

---

Just saw that Martinelli red as well. As much as it was hilarious, I think it was a _touch _unfair - if you know you're already on a yellow card then maybe you don't make the second challenge? But then again this is Arsenal so maybe he still would have done. They were both utterly stupid anyway so maybe he doesn't deserve sympathy.


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## fundy (Feb 11, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Not sure why you are surprised.
		
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where did i say i was surprised?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Classic bit of whataboutery there. Like being arrested for theft and going "Answer me this though, is stealing as bad as murdering someone?? Is it??"

---

*Just saw that Martinelli red as well. As much as it was hilarious, I think it was a touch unfair - if you know you're already on a yellow card then maybe you don't make the second challenge? But then again this is Arsenal so maybe he still would have done. They were both utterly stupid anyway so maybe he doesn't deserve sympathy.*

Click to expand...

Didn't see it. On the face of it, I agree it sounds unfair, especially if the first foul was a fairly subjective yellow? I guess if the first foul looked like a pretty obvious yellow, then Martinelli probably should have realised he'd be booked for that, and to be careful for the rest of the move. His only excuse after that would be "I've never seen a ref do that before", which is probably not his strongest defence.

Xhaka will be upset it wasn't him to get the red card, someone somewhere will have lost out on a lot of money from a winning bet 

See Neves seemed to have a little dig at Arsenal, saying they celebrated as if they won the league.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Just saw that Martinelli red as well. As much as it was hilarious, I think it was a _touch _unfair - if you know you're already on a yellow card then maybe you don't make the second challenge? But then again this is Arsenal so maybe he still would have done. They were both utterly stupid anyway so maybe he doesn't deserve sympathy.
		
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Alternatively, fair play to the ref for trying to let the game flow, play advantage. That the player decided to be utterly stupid is beyond the refs control


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## Orikoru (Feb 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Didn't see it. On the face of it, I agree it sounds unfair, especially if the first foul was a fairly subjective yellow? I guess if the first foul looked like a pretty obvious yellow, then Martinelli probably should have realised he'd be booked for that, and to be careful for the rest of the move. His only excuse after that would be "I've never seen a ref do that before", which is probably not his strongest defence.

Xhaka will be upset it wasn't him to get the red card, someone somewhere will have lost out on a lot of money from a winning bet 

See Neves seemed to have a little dig at Arsenal, saying they celebrated as if they won the league.
		
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The first one he pushed the guy in the chest while he was trying to take a throw-in, so an obvious yellow. However, he obviously then thought "I'm getting a yellow anyway, I might as well bring this next player down and waste some time" - it never entered his head that he could pick up two yellows at once. As I say, no sympathy for the fouls themselves.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The first one he pushed the guy in the chest while he was trying to take a throw-in, so an obvious yellow. However, he obviously then thought "I'm getting a yellow anyway, I might as well bring this next player down and waste some time" - it never entered his head that he could pick up two yellows at once. As I say, no sympathy for the fouls themselves.
		
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I guess some credit needs to be given to the ref then? He applied a logical, common sense approach to a situation that most of us have probably never seen before. I wonder how many referees would have simply left it as a single yellow card, for fear of being criticised for doing something that may have no precedent?


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## Orikoru (Feb 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess some credit needs to be given to the ref then? He applied a logical, common sense approach to a situation that most of us have probably never seen before. I wonder how many referees would have simply left it as a single yellow card, for fear of being criticised for doing something that may have no precedent?
		
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Yeah.. I'm genuinely on the fence on this one. Ref has applied the law and done his job well I think. But the player can still feel a little hard done by, not because of what he did, but his error in making a silly foul as he didn't know he was on a yellow card at that point. 

I suppose on another day, with another ref, even first foul alone could arguably have been a red card since he raised his arms and shoved the player.


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## Neilds (Feb 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess some credit needs to be given to the ref then? He applied a logical, common sense approach to a situation that most of us have probably never seen before. I wonder how many referees would have simply left it as a single yellow card, for fear of being criticised for doing something that may have no precedent?
		
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Might we now see referees giving yellow cards for fouls and then a second for the dissent that inevitably follows?  Would certainly start players thinking about their behaviour and hopefully filter down to the kid's leagues.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 11, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Might we now see referees giving yellow cards for fouls and then a second for the dissent that inevitably follows?  Would certainly start players thinking about their behaviour and hopefully filter down to the kid's leagues.
		
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That has happened quite frequently before though (I don't mean weekly, but I mean I've certainly seen it happen several times in the past). I think referees generally have quite a high threshold in terms of how much dissent they will tolerate before giving the yellow, especially if it is a second yellow.

However, I wouldn't lose sleep if that threshold was significantly reduced before a ref gives a yellow for dissent. I think I'm happy for a player to have a few seconds to blow off a little steam due to their frustration (provided they don't do or say something terrible), but when players seem to get away with ranting and raving for an absolute age, I sometimes think the ref should just book them.


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## fundy (Feb 11, 2022)

This is the problem isnt it, letter of the law the decision is correct, is it consistent with how the law has been applied for the last 5 years? no its not

Complete and utter guess every game currently how laws are being applied and interpreted. last night both sides/managers came away unhappy with the refs performance and thats not uncommon lately


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			This is the problem isnt it, letter of the law the decision is correct, is it consistent with how the law has been applied for the last 5 years? no its not

Complete and utter guess every game currently how laws are being applied and interpreted.* last night both sides/managers came away unhappy with the refs performance and thats not uncommon latel*y
		
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To be fair, that is the default position for most managers in their post match interview. If a team loses, it was the fault of the ref, if they win but by less than 5, it is the fault of the ref. Any incident in a game that goes against a team, fault of the ref. It's been happening for years now, it isn't recent.


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## fundy (Feb 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, that is the default position for most managers in their post match interview. If a team loses, it was the fault of the ref, if they win but by less than 5, it is the fault of the ref. Any incident in a game that goes against a team, fault of the ref. It's been happening for years now, it isn't recent.
		
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you dont think either manager has reason? do you think decisions are consistent?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			This is the problem isnt it, letter of the law the decision is correct, is it consistent with how the law has been applied for the last 5 years? no its not

Complete and utter guess every game currently how laws are being applied and interpreted. last night both sides/managers came away unhappy with the refs performance and thats not uncommon lately
		
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As Lord Tyrion says, Wolves lost, and so they are unlikely to come out and start praising the referee. If they think there is any decision that could have gone the other way, they'll focus on that one decision as an excuse for losing. Likewise, Arsenal had a man sent off, so they are very unlikely going to come out and praise the referee on that.

The default is, if there is any decision at all, even if it is completely subjective and supported (or at least understood) by most neutrals, the manager for the team it went against is nearly always going to have a moan. Conversely, the opposing manager may praise the decision if asked, but then go on and moan about another incident that didn't go their way. It is rare that we hear any manager praise a referee for all the decisions they got right, even if those decisions went against them.


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## GB72 (Feb 11, 2022)

According the interview I just read, Zouma remains available for selection on Sunday so absolutely zero suspension from the club.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			you dont think either manager has reason? do you think decisions are consistent?
		
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I think that for 95% of the time the managers hammer the ref as a deflection tactic. The Arsenal player was sent off for reasons of idiocy but why touch on that and the appalling red card record under Arteta when he can deflect and blame the ref? Wolves lost, struggle to score goals. Don't talk about that, blame the ref for their shortcomings. It happens game after game, most managers. It's a cop out.

Clearly refs will make errors, decisions can be inconsistent, although we are dealing with humans so that is not that unusual, but ultimately the managers embarrass themselves post match most of the time.


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## Neilds (Feb 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think that for 95% of the time the managers hammer the ref as a deflection tactic. The Arsenal player was sent off for reasons of idiocy but why touch on that and the appalling red card record under Arteta when he can deflect and blame the ref? Wolves lost, struggle to score goals. Don't talk about that, blame the ref for their shortcomings. It happens game after game, most managers. It's a cop out.

Clearly refs will make errors, decisions can be inconsistent, although we are dealing with humans so that is not that unusual, but ultimately the managers embarrass themselves post match most of the time.
		
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Agree with this.  No manager ever blames his players or highlights their mistakes (except may Mourinho!) so it is easy to blame the ref.  Never mind his bad tactics or the missed tackles, wayward passes, etc


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## Bdill93 (Feb 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



*I think that for 95% of the time the managers hammer the ref as a deflection tactic*. The Arsenal player was sent off for reasons of idiocy but why touch on that and the appalling red card record under Arteta when he can deflect and blame the ref? Wolves lost, struggle to score goals. Don't talk about that, blame the ref for their shortcomings. It happens game after game, most managers. It's a cop out.

Clearly refs will make errors, decisions can be inconsistent, although we are dealing with humans so that is not that unusual, but ultimately the managers embarrass themselves post match most of the time.
		
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95% in competitive games though... 100% when playing friendlies


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## BiMGuy (Feb 11, 2022)

I’m surprised there are some many poor refs in professional football given the level of expertise on this forum.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think that for 95% of the time the managers hammer the ref as a deflection tactic. The Arsenal player was sent off for reasons of idiocy but why touch on that and the appalling red card record under Arteta when he can deflect and blame the ref? Wolves lost, struggle to score goals. Don't talk about that, blame the ref for their shortcomings. It happens game after game, most managers. It's a cop out.

Clearly refs will make errors, decisions can be inconsistent, although we are dealing with humans so that is not that unusual, but ultimately the managers embarrass themselves post match most of the time.
		
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And, as fans we should remember we are not blessed with being consistent. We have all had opinions on specific incidents in the past, probably hundreds on this thread. There may be a few that we generally all agree on, and probably a reasonable indication the ref got it wrong (or that there is a loophole in the way a law is worded). However, there are plenty of incidents that one person 100% disagrees with a decision, whilst another 100% agrees with it. Even if you remove bias. So, if these fans were to be believed (I include all of us, including myself), and they were referees, one would give it, the other would not.

The ref has to make an absolute decision. They either make it, or they don't. They can't make a strong decision when they are 100% sure, but a lighter decision if they are 60% sure. 

The red card last night, he's made a decision that is technically correct, unless there is something in the law that suggest this should be best avoided? True, I've not seen it before, but I also don't remember any incidents where it could apply (I'm sure there have been incidents, it just seems so uncommon that I don't remember any). Usually the player who makes a yellow card foul is on their backside as the ref allows play to continue, or the ref might perceive it as one long foul (i.e. pulling back a player, letting go briefly, then pulling again)


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## Neilds (Feb 11, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I’m surprised there are some many poor refs in professional football given the level of expertise on this forum.
		
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The best referees always sit behind me at matches, along with the best managers!


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## Swango1980 (Feb 11, 2022)

Neilds said:



			The best referees always sit behind me at matches, along with the best managers!
		
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and the best players


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## pauljames87 (Feb 11, 2022)

GB72 said:



			According the interview I just read, Zouma remains available for selection on Sunday so absolutely zero suspension from the club.
		
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Quite right I'm afraid. He has been fined the maximum. He has been offered help to sort out why he's such a moron. RSPCA are set to send him on courses or something 

Why let him hide away? Make him suffer what the foxes think


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## fundy (Feb 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think that for 95% of the time the managers hammer the ref as a deflection tactic. The Arsenal player was sent off for reasons of idiocy but why touch on that and the appalling red card record under Arteta when he can deflect and blame the ref? Wolves lost, struggle to score goals. Don't talk about that, blame the ref for their shortcomings. It happens game after game, most managers. It's a cop out.

Clearly refs will make errors, decisions can be inconsistent, although we are dealing with humans so that is not that unusual, but ultimately the managers embarrass themselves post match most of the time.
		
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I dont actually watch the post match interviews or pretty much any commentary at all these days, agree most of what is said is rubbish/deflection

There is definitely a stupidity issue at Arsenal and has been for several years

That doesnt deflect from the fact that some of the decisions are so inconsistent with others and the last few mths Arsenal have been on the wrong end of alot of those inconsistencies regarding red cards


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492113695069155329
Thoughts?
I’d go Bale.


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## Slime (Feb 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492113695069155329
Thoughts?
I’d go Bale.
		
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The link doesn't appear to work, at least not for me.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			The link doesn't appear to work, at least not for me.
		
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Nor me, so I'll take a punt and go Bale as well


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			The link doesn't appear to work, at least not for me.
		
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In their prime who you taking?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 41098

In their prime who you taking?
		
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Salah. Tbh it's not even close


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## Swango1980 (Feb 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 41098

In their prime who you taking?
		
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Hazard a distant last. Pretty sure I'd have Bale, he was immense in his prime. I thought he had potential to become best in world, but possibly thwarted by going to Madrid and being in the shadow of Ronaldo, and his apparent poor work ethic.

I'd probably also take him in my Texas Scramble team.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Hazard a distant last. Pretty sure I'd have Bale, he was immense in his prime. I thought he had potential to become best in world, but possibly thwarted by going to Madrid and being in the shadow of Ronaldo, and his apparent poor work ethic.

I'd probably also take him in my Texas Scramble team.
		
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Yes agree with all of that.


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## Slime (Feb 11, 2022)

Bale, by a distance.


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## Dando (Feb 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492113695069155329
Thoughts?
I’d go Bale.
		
Click to expand...

Bale? 🤣🤣🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			Bale, by a distance.
		
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Surely depends on how your team is set up 

Salahs goal record for us is outstanding and Bales best season overall is 26 - Salah is a machine , more reliable as well best season for us was 44 and every season since has been untouchable 

I would have the Hazard at Chelsea before Bale but imo it’s Salah and it’s not close. 

I have Salah at a level above both


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2022)

Dando said:



			Bale? 🤣🤣🤣
		
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So you don’t have an opinion?


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## Dando (Feb 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			So you don’t have an opinion?[/QUOTE

No because I’m still laughing that you think bale is the best of those 3 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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## Slime (Feb 11, 2022)

Dando said:



			No because I’m still laughing that you think bale is the best of those 3 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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He never asked who we thought was the best, but which of the three would we'd choose.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2022)

It’s just an opinion mate 🤦‍♂️
No right or wrong answer 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			He never asked who we thought was the best, but which of the three would we'd choose. 

Click to expand...

Some people 🤷‍♂️


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## Slime (Feb 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Some people 🤷‍♂️
		
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He's okay, he just mis-read the question.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2022)

To an extent it depends on who is in the rest of the team. Bale in full flow was / is as exciting as it gets, Salah scores a lot of goals ( I have it between them). If there is an out and out goal scorer in the team then I'd go Bale but if not then I'll take Salah.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			He's okay, he just mis-read the question. 

Click to expand...

Thought it was pretty obvious


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## 4LEX (Feb 11, 2022)

Salah clearly better than the other two at their peak. What's done for Liverpool is up there with Henry and Ronaldo at their very best.

Bale was more a force of nature who relied on pure pace and power. Without his pace he'd now struggle to get a game for any top half side. Hazard was incredible at his best but he seemed to have one great season followed by a holiday season and his spell at Real has been woeful.


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## SteveW86 (Feb 12, 2022)

I didn’t watch the Utd Southampton match, but was 1-1 a fair result?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 12, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I didn’t watch the Utd Southampton match, but was 1-1 a fair result?
		
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Yeah. United shocking again.


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## Junior (Feb 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah. United shocking again.
		
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We seem to play great for 50 minutes of a game,  then for some reason start chasing it, giving the ball away and committing stupid fouls.  We're a team of individual's.


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## Captainron (Feb 12, 2022)

Man U are like Liverpool were in the 2000’s/2010’s. Big on name but short on results. 

Look on the bright side. They could be like Tottenham…..


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## fundy (Feb 12, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I didn’t watch the Utd Southampton match, but was 1-1 a fair result?
		
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pretty much, United shaded it but both sides had plenty of chances


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## SteveW86 (Feb 12, 2022)

Do any Utd fans want RR to get the job permanently?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 12, 2022)

Junior said:



			We seem to play great for 50 minutes of a game,  then for some reason start chasing it, giving the ball away and committing stupid fouls.  We're a team of individual's.
		
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Yeah. We're just not strong enough in the middle of the park, especially mentally. As you say, once the opposition get a foot in the game, they start to get comfortable playing through the midfield, and then attacking the vulnerable defence. Whereas Utd players seem to be out of position, and just feel they are panicking a bit. We definitely play like individuals, where at best each player thinks one move ahead (I.e. who do I pass to?). There is no forward thinking, intelligent movements off the ball and combination plays. So, it is relatively easy to defend against. 

Mind you, I had written off our season months ago, I don't expect much. Tho failing to make Champions League would be a pain. With Martial, De Beek and Greenwood gone, and Ronaldo, Cavani, Mata and Matic about to collect their pension (and Lingard clearly not wanted), it is going to be an interesting summer transfer window. They'll want to clarify the long term manager early so they can start planning properly.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 12, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Do any Utd fans want RR to get the job permanently?
		
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I've nothing for or against him as it stands. I just don't know what he is capable off, as he has been out of management for ages, and he has taken over a really bad team (despite it having decent individuals). So, the performances may not be doing him no justice.

But, based on up to this point, then I will answer with a no.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 12, 2022)

This Van De Beek’s a decent player.


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## SteveW86 (Feb 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I've nothing for or against him as it stands. I just don't know what he is capable off, as he has been out of management for ages, and he has taken over a really bad team (despite it having decent individuals). So, the performances may not be doing him no justice.

But, based on up to this point, then I will answer with a no.
		
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It doesn’t appear he has made any difference to what the team was like under Ole.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 12, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Do any Utd fans want RR to get the job permanently?
		
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I’d bet you would struggle to find 1
Said it a while back nowhere near up to the job.
When he came in it needed a massive change of personal and big decisions.
He made a couple of early changes but is now reverting back to the old guard.
If he can’t see Maguire is a liability he is definitely not the manager we need.


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## Slime (Feb 12, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Do any Utd fans want RR to get the job permanently?
		
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Erik ten Hag would be my choice, by a distance, I'm certainly not sold on Poch.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 12, 2022)

Best 1st half I’ve seen from Everton this season so far, could of easily had another 2 or 3, Leeds don’t seem up for it, but Rodrigo has hit the bar twice with 2 superb strikes.
Remember the date because even Iwobi has turned up for his 1 game this season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 12, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Best 1st half I’ve seen from Everton this season so far, could of easily had another 2 or 3, Leeds don’t seem up for it, but Rodrigo has hit the bar twice with 2 superb strikes.
*Remember the date because even Iwobi has turned up for his 1 game this season*.

Click to expand...

Have you been drinking? I think you must be hallucinating 😆


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 12, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Have you been drinking? I think you must be hallucinating 😆
		
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Something must of happened at the African Nations because he’s had a crackin first half, chasing the ball down and everything, not sure if the same player will come out for the 2nd half though
VDB is quality


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## Jimaroid (Feb 12, 2022)

Infuriating 30 minutes with Wi-Fi problems and I missed most of the first half. The 15 minutes I have seen so far and we’re looking a different team. Atmosphere sounds fantastic too. What a transformation.


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## Billysboots (Feb 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			Erik ten Hag would be my choice, by a distance, I'm certainly not sold on Poch.
		
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Absolutely agree.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 12, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Something must of happened at the African Nations because he’s had a crackin first half, chasing the ball down and everything, not sure if the same player will come out for the 2nd half though
VDB is quality

Click to expand...

VdB was the only player midweek to come away with any credit. Agreed, he is quality 👍.

It would be nice if this is the 'new Iwobi '. Like having a new player.


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## Billysboots (Feb 12, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			VdB was the only player midweek to come away with any credit. Agreed, he is quality 👍.

It would be nice if this is the 'new Iwobi '. Like having a new player.
		
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The truly depressing thing about VdB was the fact that United never gave him a sniff. Of all the bizarre happenings at Old Trafford during the last decade, the treatment of this lad is right up there.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			The truly depressing thing about VdB was the fact that United never gave him a sniff. Of all the bizarre happenings at Old Trafford during the last decade, the treatment of this lad is right up there.
		
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You might benefit next season still. If he keeps this up the new manager will like what he sees and bring him back into the fold. 

You are right, a strange situation in how they treated him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 12, 2022)

Great win, thankfully the Everton and Leeds teams from midweek failed to turn up.
Van De Beek easily MoM and Iwobi was non-stop for 90 minutes, not sure when his next good game will be.

Alli showed a bit of class at the end with a superb ball to Rondon that forced the Leeds keeper in to a great save.

All good again under Frank.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 12, 2022)

I know it was only an injured Leeds but that was a great game for the team performance we showed. Gordon is rapidly become my favourite player in the squad just based on the fight and energy he shows. Still really annoyed I missed what sounds like the best 30 mins of the season but it’s a nice feeling to be having more than one player we can say was our man of the match. I’ve gone all giddy.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 12, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I know it was only an injured Leeds but that was a great game for the team performance we showed. Gordon is rapidly become my favourite player in the squad just based on the fight and energy he shows. Still really annoyed I missed what sounds like the best 30 mins of the season but it’s a nice feeling to be having more than one player we can say was our man of the match. I’ve gone all giddy.
		
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As I put above, I was worried about the teams from midweek turning up, Leeds were unchanged but looked nothing like the team that drew with Villa, thankfully.

I wonder how much it would cost for VDB if he carries on like this and, only 18 points off 4th with 2 games in hand.


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## 4LEX (Feb 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			Erik ten Hag would be my choice, by a distance, I'm certainly not sold on Poch.
		
Click to expand...

ETH would be a disaster. He onlys plays his style of football at Ajax as they dominate 80% of games due to vastly superior quality. Almost every game is a training match. He would get found out badly in a top league and get nowhere near the time he'd need. The Utd job is way too big for him at this point.

Poch is the only person who stands a chance. Plays decent football, intense and a great man manager. Overachieved with Spurs, knows the league well and a point to prove.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 12, 2022)

Well done to Chelsea very good win.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well done to Chelsea very good win.
		
Click to expand...

Good result might be a fairer description but I'll take it.

Wonder where Lukaku will be playing next season...


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## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			ETH would be a disaster. He onlys plays his style of football at Ajax as they dominate 80% of games due to vastly superior quality. Almost every game is a training match. He would get found out badly in a top league and get nowhere near the time he'd need. The Utd job is way too big for him at this point.

Poch is the only person who stands a chance. Plays decent football, intense and a great man manager. Overachieved with Spurs, knows the league well and a point to prove.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t understand this post. city play percentage/ dominate football and it works. As a City fan I hope they go for Poch and not ETH.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			ETH would be a disaster. He onlys plays his style of football at Ajax as they dominate 80% of games due to vastly superior quality. Almost every game is a training match. He would get found out badly in a top league and get nowhere near the time he'd need. The Utd job is way too big for him at this point.

Poch is the only person who stands a chance. Plays decent football, intense and a great man manager. Overachieved with Spurs, knows the league well and a point to prove.
		
Click to expand...

Great man manager. 

His biggest failure is playing Kane in the CL final and losing the entire squads trust.....


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## Swango1980 (Feb 13, 2022)

Good start by Trippier to his Newcastle career.

Looking like Spurs are struggling..


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## fundy (Feb 13, 2022)

so why isnt joe Linton sent off for 2 yellows there then?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			so why isnt joe Linton sent off for 2 yellows there then?
		
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I think fouls like that are deemed one continuous foul.

I'm personally happy with that, seems a common sense decision by a ref. Otherwise, you'd have to give a red card to anyone who grabs someone, let's go momentarily before regaining their grip on them.


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## adam6177 (Feb 13, 2022)

I wonder how seriously Spurs will take tackling the use of the Y word. Seems to be a big push in the media... Or so we're led to believe, then within 3 minutes it was being sung.

So ask nicely again? Charge/ban fans for use of racially aggregated language? It's a real interesting one.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 13, 2022)

Don't think they'll do anything. 
Nor do I think they should. 

The fans will use the same defence as those saying it's ok for the N word to be used as long as you aren't white imo. 

Which just keeps the word in circulation and will lead to more innapropriate use.


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## Neilds (Feb 13, 2022)

Smash and grab by Rotherham Utd at Hillsboro today 🤪🤪🤪
6 wins on the bounce, 6 clean sheets - only 5 away goals conceded all season


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## Beezerk (Feb 13, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Smash and grab by Rotherham Utd at Hillsboro today 🤪🤪🤪
6 wins on the bounce, 6 clean sheets - only 5 away goals conceded all season
		
Click to expand...

Honestly, do you think you deserved that today? Insane how we didn’t win 🤯


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## Swango1980 (Feb 13, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Honestly, do you think you deserved that today? Insane how we didn’t win 🤯
		
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I'm assuming the fact he said "smash and grab" indicated he felt Wednesday were the better side?


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## Beezerk (Feb 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm assuming the fact he said "smash and grab" indicated he felt Wednesday were the better side?
		
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Two set pieces, that’s all they had, one was a corner that shouldn’t have been.
Worst team I’ve seen all season, not sure how they are top of the league.
(There may be some sour grapes in the above comment 😂)


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## Bazzatron (Feb 13, 2022)

How am I supposed to tell her I'm off into Europe without her again? 😎😎😎


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## Neilds (Feb 13, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Honestly, do you think you deserved that today? Insane how we didn’t win 🤯
		
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Thought we defended well, but nothing really in attack - would have been happy with 0-0. Not sure you had that many clear cut chances.

PS - do you train on the pitch? Was in terrible condition


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## Beezerk (Feb 13, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Thought we defended well, but nothing really in attack - would have been happy with 0-0. Not sure you had that many clear cut chances.

PS - do you train on the pitch? Was in terrible condition
		
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Ha ha yes the pitch was awful wasn’t it. Luckily my brother is currently on a flight to the USA so he isn’t giving me any grief 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2022)

Disappointing display from Villa today, I expected more.

Huge win for Newcastle, they have some momentum now. Burn instantly showing his value to the team.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2022)

Bowen is on fire 

Looks like zouma bottled todays game in the warm up "vision problems and feeling sick"


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## Jensen (Feb 13, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Great man manager.

His biggest failure is playing Kane in the CL final and losing the entire squads trust.....
		
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I thought at the time, he should’ve stuck with Lucas Moura as he got us there after all. Also Kane wasn’t fully fit.
Strange what happened with the team, Trippier was allowed to leave and then issues happened between Vertonghen and Eriksen. Dembele was never replaced and it crumbled. Add in Levy’s incompetence and the cream that could’ve been/become turned sour.


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## Crazyface (Feb 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I played hockey for a number of years, pre and post the no offside rule. In the first few games after it was dropped teams did play a goal hanger but that was soon dropped as the ball would not make it through to them and so they were a wasted player on the pitch. A hockey ball flies far faster across a surface and through the air than a football but it is far harder to control through the air if hit, not flicked. Once it settled down teams played normally but without attackers having fear of playing tight on the last player. In effect, it has been a roaring success and even speaking as a defender I thought it was a great change. For one thing, you no longer had a goal against you when the attacker was clearly offside but it was missed by the umpire. Less stressful, no one to be grumpy with!

Football fans keep complaining about tight offside decisions but then close off when given solutions. I think a no offside trial would be worthwhile. If it didn't work, if football was not compatible with it, then move on. If it did work.........

My own thought is to do it in stages, as hockey did. Have a 25yd line drawn and only be offside beyond that. Trial that first, see how it goes. Baby steps.....
		
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OMG soooooooo close. I'd say once the ball crossed the 25 yard line there would no offside.


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## Crazyface (Feb 13, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Sorry to be a bit late to ask this, but I watch the West Ham game and I've watched the winning goal over and over. Why wasn't it offside? I've chacked the current rule and it seems to me the bloke who toe poked it home was in an offside position when he received the ball, or have I missed something?
		
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Bump.


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## davemc1 (Feb 13, 2022)

This league is weird. I cannot pick a result other than city/lpool double. 

Chelsea on/off

Every other team can win or lose or draw every other game they play 🤣🤣


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## Slime (Feb 13, 2022)

Glad to see West Ham getting beaten today, let's hope it stays that way.
That Barnes fella could carve out a career in football, he looks quite tasty.
I've hardly heard Rice's name mentioned today, surprising really, he normally runs the show.


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## Slime (Feb 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			Glad to see West Ham getting beaten today, *let's hope it stays that way.*
That Barnes fella could carve out a career in football, he looks quite tasty.
I've hardly heard Rice's name mentioned today, surprising really, he normally runs the show.
		
Click to expand...

Why do I open my big gob?


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## paddyc (Feb 13, 2022)

Can anyone  explain  how that West Ham equaliser was allowed  to stand? Looked like a blatant handball.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Can anyone  explain  how that West Ham equaliser was allowed  to stand? Looked like a blatant handball.
		
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By the letter of the law it's not

Hand ball is below the sleeve .. it hit the kit so can't be hand ball


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			Glad to see West Ham getting beaten today, let's hope it stays that way.
That Barnes fella could carve out a career in football, he looks quite tasty.
I've hardly heard Rice's name mentioned today, surprising really, he normally runs the show.
		
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Doh. You've got a touch of the Homer's. Leicester cannot defend set pieces. Surely they must be looking at it in training each week but every match at the moment they seem to be conceding from corners


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## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2022)

Bowen has to get an England call

Is there a more in form English winger at the moment?


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## paddyc (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			By the letter of the law it's not

Hand ball is below the sleeve .. it hit the kit so can't be hand ball
		
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Mmm OK another grey area


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## paddyc (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Bowen has to get an England call

Is there a more in form English winger at the moment?
		
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Jack Grealish🤣🤣


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## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Mmm OK another grey area
		
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Well no because they set that out in the laws at begining of season so everyone's the same 

Just how cresswell was handball for elbow as below the sleeve


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## fundy (Feb 13, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Jack Grealish🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

???


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## pokerjoke (Feb 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			Glad to see West Ham getting beaten today, let's hope it stays that way.
That Barnes fella could carve out a career in football, he looks quite tasty.
I've hardly heard Rice's name mentioned today, surprising really, he normally runs the show.
		
Click to expand...

I was watching Rice very closely on purpose.
He gave the ball away once in 90 minutes just kept everything simple and ticking along.
I’m sure he’s had better games but we could do with that at Man Utd


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## Slime (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			By the letter of the law it's not

*Hand ball is below the sleeve *.. it hit the kit so can't be hand ball
		
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So why don't they all wear long sleeves?
That just can't be the rule, it just can't be.
It was handball in my eyes, straight forward handball.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			So why don't they all wear long sleeves?
That just can't be the rule, it just can't be.
It was handball in my eyes, straight forward handball.
		
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how often do you see long sleeve now? look at the Leicester side. Long sleeve undershirts and short sleeve shirts. clearly that to make sure that the handball cant be incorrectly given against them.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492929808141013003
explained with pictures here. been 2 years now... its like people who think single golfers have no standing on a course..


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## Fade and Die (Feb 13, 2022)

Things I have learned today:

If the ball hits upper arm when defending in the box - penalty

If the ball hits upper arm when attacking in the box and goes in - goal 🤷


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## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Things I have learned today:

If the ball hits upper arm when defending in the box - penalty

If the ball hits upper arm when attacking in the box and goes in - goal 🤷
		
Click to expand...

 Ave said this before, how can a football law be different whether you are a defender or attacker.😳


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## Slime (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			how often do you see long sleeve now? look at the Leicester side. *Long sleeve undershirts and short sleeve shirts. clearly that to make sure that the handball cant be incorrectly given against them.*

Click to expand...

I know you don't believe this, the funny thing is is that some people probably do.


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## Slime (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492929808141013003

Click to expand...

The photo is misleading as it's just a moment in time. One still that I saw on Sky Sports showed the ball hit mostly below his shirt sleeve.
Regarding the graphic, the ball quite clearly hit Dawson on the red portion of the arm.
Handball, I believe it really is as simple as that.


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## fundy (Feb 13, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Things I have learned today:

If the ball hits upper arm when defending in the box - penalty

If the ball hits upper arm when attacking in the box and goes in - goal 🤷
		
Click to expand...


whats wrong with the arm being the arm as it used to be? at both ends!


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Bowen has to get an England call

Is there a more in form English winger at the moment?
		
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Yes ,cracking finish that.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			The photo is misleading as it's just a moment in time. One still that I saw on Sky Sports showed the ball hit mostly below his shirt sleeve.
Regarding the graphic, the ball quite clearly hit Dawson on the red portion of the arm.
Handball, I believe it really is as simple as that.
		
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In your opinion. which your entitled to. 

However in the opinion of the ref and VAR its not.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			In your opinion. which your entitled to.

*However in the opinion of the ref and VAR its not*.
		
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Practice what you preach and bear this in mind when a dodgy decision goes against your team  for one of the bigger teams.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			In your opinion. which your entitled to.

However in the opinion of the ref and VAR its not.
		
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But isnt that the whole point why VAR was brought in. Opinions and decisions by refs were wrong.  VAR was brought into help but at times it has rather than helped, inflamed a situation. Quite frankly to say that only half of the upper arm is handball and that half is determined by a players sleeve ( depending whether he is an attacker or defender so the law is different ). Well in my opinion it is two testicles in a bag.
Now obviously we an agreement to disagree. But for me it is the same as the other week when Utd had a handball decision go against them. By the letter of the law it was not handball but a goal came from it. 🤔😳


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## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			But isnt that the whole point why VAR was brought in. Opinions and decisions by refs were wrong.  VAR was brought into help but at times it has rather than helped, inflamed a situation. Quite frankly to say that only half of the upper arm is handball and that half is determined by a players sleeve ( depending whether he is an attacker or defender so the law is different ). Well in my opinion it is two testicles in a bag.
Now obviously we an agreement to disagree. But for me it is the same as the other week when Utd had a handball decision go against them. By the letter of the law it was not handball but a goal came from it. 🤔😳
		
Click to expand...

The speed of the decision speaks aswell 

They didn't spend 2-3 minutes slowing it down to see from angle a or b if it was handball 

He gave a Goal, var checked and agreed it wasn't handball 

Rather than when they spend ages looking it was very quick


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## adam6177 (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The speed of the decision speaks aswell

They didn't spend 2-3 minutes slowing it down to see from angle a or b if it was handball

He gave a Goal, var checked and agreed it wasn't handball

Rather than when they spend ages looking it was very quick
		
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Talking of time to check VAR decisions.... did you see the disallowed goal for offside in the villa match?

I have no issue with the VAR freeze frame that's freely available to view now, but during the game they were streaming what the officials were looking at.  Part way through the check they suddenly moved it on an extra frame and in that time the defender was further up the field and left Watkins offside....but to me in the first frame it also looked like that was the moment the pass was made.

What I saw didn't sit right with me, it felt like they wanted to disallow.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Talking of time to check VAR decisions.... did you see the disallowed goal for offside in the villa match?

I have no issue with the VAR freeze frame that's freely available to view now, but during the game they were streaming what the officials were looking at.  Part way through the check they suddenly moved it on an extra frame and in that time the defender was further up the field and left Watkins offside....but to me in the first frame it also looked like that was the moment the pass was made.

What I saw didn't sit right with me, it felt like they wanted to disallow.
		
Click to expand...

No i didnt see any of the other games today, im on nights this week I had a lovely sleep until 4 lol


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## Slime (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The speed of the decision speaks aswell

They didn't spend 2-3 minutes slowing it down to see from angle a or b if it was handball

*He gave a Goal, var checked and agreed it wasn't handball

Rather than when they spend ages looking it was very quick*

Click to expand...

Maybe if they'd have spent more time looking at it they'd have come to the correct decision, rather than the one they did!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			Maybe if they'd have spent more time looking at it they'd have come to the correct decision, rather than the one they did!
		
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they could have looked at it for a year and still would have given the same correct decision

your just disappointed as you wanted west ham to be defeated today


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## 4LEX (Feb 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t understand this post. city play percentage/ dominate football and it works. As a City fan I hope they go for Poch and not ETH.
		
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It works if you have the manager, players and time to implement it. Even Pep struggled badly at first and he's the best in the business. To go from Ajax to the sharp end of the Premiership and the toughest job in football is a jump too much. He won't get the players and he won't get the time.


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## Slime (Feb 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			they could have looked at it for a year and still would have given the same correct decision

your just disappointed as you wanted west ham to be defeated today
		
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Wrong ....................... but I did want WHU to get beaten today.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			It works if you have the manager, players and time to implement it. Even Pep struggled badly at first and he's the best in the business. To go from Ajax to the sharp end of the Premiership and the toughest job in football is a jump too much. He won't get the players and he won't get the time.
		
Click to expand...

I remember when Pep first came to City and we started playing out from the back with Bravo as keeper. Sweet mother for the fans it was purgatory. I remember Missis Tash once shouted “ just boot it” . It took time but its now a thing of beauty. 
If ETH went to Utd his first piece of business should be to bring back Van de Beek from Everton. Get players in that can play to A system, his system. Utds problems will take time. If the next Utd manger is not the correct choice and not given time. Utds woes will continue for some time yet.


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## 4LEX (Feb 13, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Great man manager.

His biggest failure is playing Kane in the CL final and losing the entire squads trust.....
		
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He had overachieved at Spurs and wasn't backed when it mattered. He wanted Grealish before he become top class and Levy wouldn't even go to £30m. It had all gone sour before the CL final season.

Weak mentality of the Spurs squad to think they knew better. Almost any manager would've put faith in Kane for that game. Poch will have won a handful of titles since he left, while Spurs can't even get anywhere near 4th place and have gone through 3 managers in that time.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			Wrong ....................... but I did want WHU to get beaten today.
		
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dawson hit it on the head in his interview ..

were you worried when it went to var?

slightly but it counted thats all that matters.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			He had overachieved at Spurs and wasn't backed when it mattered. He wanted Grealish before he become top class and Levy wouldn't even go to £30m. It had all gone sour before the CL final season.

Weak mentality of the Spurs squad to think they knew better. Almost any manager would've put faith in Kane for that game. Poch will have won a handful of titles since he left, while Spurs can't even get anywhere near 4th place and have gone through 3 managers in that time.
		
Click to expand...

I don't agree at all. 

Kane wasn't fit. The second he picked him, he showed the squad who was in charge ...
Then again, I think he's a snake and don't like spurs. So not exactly gutted it went wrong for both parties. 

As to him winning things compared to what spurs have done. He's gone to PSG. Winning there proves nothing imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491161055619596288


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Utds problems will take time. If the next Utd manger is not the correct choice and not given time. Utds woes will continue for some time yet.
		
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Its the same for Spurs as well. They need stability and perhaps an acceptance (whether the fans like it or not) that they aren't a top 4 side at the moment and even if they do get there aren't good enough to challenge in the CL. Both United and Spurs need to rebuild and that may prove harder at Spurs with Levy's reluctance to part with money. If both clubs simply hire and fire then both could find themselves scrabbling for Europa places at best for many seasons to come and that must have an impact on attracting the top players


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## Swango1980 (Feb 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			It works if you have the manager, players and time to implement it. Even Pep struggled badly at first and he's the best in the business. To go from Ajax to the sharp end of the Premiership and the toughest job in football is a jump too much. He won't get the players and he won't get the time.
		
Click to expand...

That is a depressing thought, even if it is correct.

That the Utd board, and many fans will expect almost immediate success. That some may not be prepared to appoint a manager they have confidence in, accept things are not likely to he pretty for quite a while, but have faith they will bring results in the long term.

Instead, look for a pretty quick fix. Maybe another Mourinho. If Utd are still miles off after 6 months, start looking for the next manager. We are miles away from City and Liverpool. Even if not miles away on paper player to player, miles away in terms of attitude, confidence and the fact working together as a team is second nature to each player at those 2 teams. 

I'd love almost instant results when the new guy comes in. But, realistically, it's a long term project. I also am unsure about some of the back room staff. Ole and RR have refused to give a chance to certain players, DeBeek being one of them. It is bizarre, but is that purely down to both managers, or is it influenced by the staff they speak to behind the scenes? Also, the attitude of many players seems off, has done for ages. I don't know, but I think it is more than the manager that needs to be thought about.


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## 4LEX (Feb 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I remember when Pep first came to City and we started playing out from the back with Bravo as keeper. Sweet mother for the fans it was purgatory. I remember Missis Tash once shouted “ just boot it” . It took time but its now a thing of beauty.
If ETH went to Utd his first piece of business should be to bring back Van de Beek from Everton. Get players in that can play to A system, his system. Utds problems will take time. If the next Utd manger is not the correct choice and not given time. Utds woes will continue for some time yet.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly. Pep had trophies in the bank from major leagues so you had confidence it would come good. I think it was 2 CL's and 6 titles in Spain and Germany. He was also in total charge of picking players and had absolute power.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 13, 2022)

Utd need stability because it’s going to take a few seasons to catch City and Liverpool.
Whoever comes in needs backing and time.
Those calling for VDB to come back forget it,he’s had one average game at Everton.
Conte was being touted on here for Utd.
Questions were being asked why they never went for him,I think those questions have been answered.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Utd need stability because it’s going to take a few seasons to catch City and Liverpool.
*Whoever comes in needs backing and time.*
Those calling for VDB to come back forget it,he’s had one average game at Everton.
*Conte was being touted on here for Utd.
Questions were being asked why they never went for him,I think those questions have been answered.*

Click to expand...


Do you believe Conte has been backed and given enough time?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Utd need stability because it’s going to take a few seasons to catch City and Liverpool.
Whoever comes in needs backing and time.
*Those calling for VDB to come back forget it,he’s had one average game at Everton.*
Conte was being touted on here for Utd.
Questions were being asked why they never went for him,I think those questions have been answered.
		
Click to expand...

His one average game is one more than most Utd players have had all season.


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## 4LEX (Feb 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That is a depressing thought, even if it is correct.

That the Utd board, and many fans will expect almost immediate success. That some may not be prepared to appoint a manager they have confidence in, accept things are not likely to he pretty for quite a while, but have faith they will bring results in the long term.

Instead, look for a pretty quick fix. Maybe another Mourinho. If Utd are still miles off after 6 months, start looking for the next manager. We are miles away from City and Liverpool. Even if not miles away on paper player to player, miles away in terms of attitude, confidence and the fact working together as a team is second nature to each player at those 2 teams.

I'd love almost instant results when the new guy comes in. But, realistically, it's a long term project. I also am unsure about some of the back room staff. Ole and RR have refused to give a chance to certain players, DeBeek being one of them. It is bizarre, but is that purely down to both managers, or is it influenced by the staff they speak to behind the scenes? Also, the attitude of many players seems off, has done for ages. I don't know, but I think it is more than the manager that needs to be thought about.
		
Click to expand...


I really think Poch is the best at both - results right away and medium/long term. He likes to coach and develop players. Throw in a few good buys and things will turn around quickly. Utd will be so much better as a team without Pogba so whoever comes in will have an easier job as he won't be there (unless Utd give him a long term deal on 600k a week).

For all Utd's issues I still think the lack of a peak world class striker is key. Rooney was finished, RVP a one season wonder, Ibrahimovic came in, Lukaku was OK but very limited and then it's been Cavani and Ronaldo. That's 8 years plus without a world class striker. All of the old sides were built around firepower. Things in football can change fast if you get it right, it doesn't have to be a 4 year wait for someone to come good. The right manager and 2-3 good signings and it'll be totally different next season.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 13, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Do you believe Conte has been backed and given enough time?
		
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Probably not but without knowing what’s going on between him and Levy I’d be guessing.
I’d presume Levy has already realised he’s not the one,I’m so glad Utd never went for him,and to be honest I don’t believe they ever was.
I also believe they want Poch but does Poch want Utd.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I really think Poch is the best at both - results right away and medium/long term. He likes to coach and develop players. Throw in a few good buys and things will turn around quickly. Utd will be so much better as a team without Pogba so whoever comes in will have an easier job as he won't be there (unless Utd give him a long term deal on 600k a week).

For all Utd's issues I still think the lack of a peak world class striker is key. Rooney was finished, RVP a one season wonder, Ibrahimovic came in, Lukaku was OK but very limited and then it's been Cavani and Ronaldo. That's 8 years plus without a world class striker. All of the old sides were built around firepower. Things in football can change fast if you get it right, it doesn't have to be a 4 year wait for someone to come good. The right manager and 2-3 good signings and it'll be totally different next season.
		
Click to expand...

I agree about Poch
Looking at what’s out there he’s the best fit I believe.
Premiership experience is a must imo


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## Swango1980 (Feb 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I really think Poch is the best at both - results right away and medium/long term. He likes to coach and develop players. Throw in a few good buys and things will turn around quickly. Utd will be so much better as a team without Pogba so whoever comes in will have an easier job as he won't be there (unless Utd give him a long term deal on 600k a week).

For all Utd's issues I still think the lack of a peak world class striker is key. Rooney was finished, RVP a one season wonder, Ibrahimovic came in, Lukaku was OK but very limited and then it's been Cavani and Ronaldo. That's 8 years plus without a world class striker. All of the old sides were built around firepower. Things in football can change fast if you get it right, it doesn't have to be a 4 year wait for someone to come good. The right manager and 2-3 good signings and it'll be totally different next season.
		
Click to expand...

I like Poch, so would not be upset to see him appointed.

We'll definitely need a long term striker, that is for sure. I just hope they go in hard this time to get the right guy, rather than end up with someone like Ighalo.

But we've been lacking big big time in midfield for years. The core of the side is so important, a couple of quality central midfielders can dictate the tempo of a game, in and out of possession, and provide a great foundation for the attacking players to launch from. Fred and McTomminay work hard, but there is no sustained quality. McTomminay does some good things, but shocked at how slow he is when he runs alongside other players. That pace is the difference between winning a ball, or getting nowhere near it. 

So, a striker and a couple of midfielders is probably a minimum. See how that goes, and then may need to look at the right back and Maguire situation.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Probably not but without knowing what’s going on between him and Levy I’d be guessing.
I’d presume Levy has already realised he’s not the one,I’m so glad Utd never went for him,and to be honest I don’t believe they ever was.
I also believe they want Poch but does Poch want Utd.
		
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I only asked as your post seemed contradictory.

You said the next Manchester United manager needed time and backing but was almost writing Conte at Tothenham off. The next manager appointment at Manchester United is important as they’ve failed with all of the ones since Sir Alex.

The PL needs a successful Manchester United team to battle with Manchester City and Liverpool.


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## Billysboots (Feb 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I like Poch, so would not be upset to see him appointed.

We'll definitely need a long term striker, that is for sure. I just hope they go in hard this time to get the right guy, rather than end up with someone like Ighalo.

But we've been lacking big big time in midfield for years. The core of the side is so important, a couple of quality central midfielders can dictate the tempo of a game, in and out of possession, and provide a great foundation for the attacking players to launch from. Fred and McTomminay work hard, but there is no sustained quality. McTomminay does some good things, but shocked at how slow he is when he runs alongside other players. That pace is the difference between winning a ball, or getting nowhere near it.

So, a striker and a couple of midfielders is probably a minimum. See how that goes, and then may need to look at the right back and Maguire situation.
		
Click to expand...

United need to rid themselves of the malcontents before they can ever hope to move forward. I’m not about to second guess who those players are, although there have been rumours circulating for a considerable time now that Lingard is a disruptive influence. And we’ll never know the truth about Pogba, although with his contract due to finish I think that’s a moot point anyway.

Once those whose attitudes stink have been moved on, then the new manager can start over. Whoever it is will have a huge job because the club, on the face of it, seems rotten to the core. United, as well as being a tough watch these days, are tough to like.

I agree regarding the midfield. It’s been poor since Scholes hung up his boots the first time. Bruno is as close as they have come to quality in the middle of the pitch, but one, possibly two central midfielders, are an absolute must. Also a top striker - Cavani and Ronaldo will be gone in the summer, and I would be surprised if Mason Greenwood ever plays again, certainly for United.

Finally, another centre half. Lindelöf is never a Premier League player, Bailly is too injury prone which is a great shame as he has real potential. And Maguire? Biggest waste of money I have ever had the misfortune to watch. He is, as big money moves go, by some distance the most overrated, overpriced footballer ever to wear the shirt. Time to cut our losses and get rid.

I’ve lost interest in this season, and my patience with the club I have supported for nearly fifty years has all but been exhausted. They used to entertain me, even during the barren years when an occasional FA Cup win was all we had to keep us happy. Now they are just a turgid watch - a grumpy combination of players who suck the mood out of Old Trafford every time they set foot on the pitch.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			United need to rid themselves of the malcontents before they can ever hope to move forward. I’m not about to second guess who those players are, although there have been rumours circulating for a considerable time now that Lingard is a disruptive influence. And we’ll never know the truth about Pogba, although with his contract due to finish I think that’s a moot point anyway.

Once those whose attitudes stink have been moved on, then the new manager can start over. Whoever it is will have a huge job because the club, on the face of it, seems rotten to the core. United, as well as being a tough watch these days, are tough to like.

I agree regarding the midfield. It’s been poor since Scholes hung up his boots the first time. Bruno is as close as they have come to quality in the middle of the pitch, but one, possibly two central midfielders, are an absolute must. Also a top striker - Cavani and Ronaldo will be gone in the summer, and I would be surprised if Mason Greenwood ever plays again, certainly for United.

Finally, another centre half. Lindelöf is never a Premier League player, Bailly is too injury prone which is a great shame as he has real potential. And Maguire? Biggest waste of money I have ever had the misfortune to watch. He is, as big money moves go, by some distance the most overrated, overpriced footballer ever to wear the shirt. Time to cut our losses and get rid.

I’ve lost interest in this season, and my patience with the club I have supported for nearly fifty years has all but been exhausted. They used to entertain me, even during the barren years when an occasional FA Cup win was all we had to keep us happy. Now they are just a turgid watch - a grumpy combination of players who suck the mood out of Old Trafford every time they set foot on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

I was interested when RR announced he was getting a mind coach. I wonder if he realised, not long after arriving at the club, the mentality of many people at the club was rotten.


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## 4LEX (Feb 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I like Poch, so would not be upset to see him appointed.

We'll definitely need a long term striker, that is for sure. I just hope they go in hard this time to get the right guy, rather than end up with someone like Ighalo.

But we've been lacking big big time in midfield for years. The core of the side is so important, a couple of quality central midfielders can dictate the tempo of a game, in and out of possession, and provide a great foundation for the attacking players to launch from. Fred and McTomminay work hard, but there is no sustained quality. McTomminay does some good things, but shocked at how slow he is when he runs alongside other players. That pace is the difference between winning a ball, or getting nowhere near it.

So, a striker and a couple of midfielders is probably a minimum. See how that goes, and then may need to look at the right back and Maguire situation.
		
Click to expand...

The midfield is key and but I don't think Utd had a top midfield since 2003. Keane was never replaced and Giggs to his credit morphed into a CM. Utd won 5 titles from 2007-2013 with a really patchy midfield. I know the game has changed since then though. A striker, decent DM and a RB are absolute must buys. 

I really like Zapata at Atalanta - he's 30 but has pace, power and is a total beast. Similar to Saha back in the day. But Utd should go all out for Haaland, if they're serious. Rice is an obvious choice as he's a DM and can play a bit too. Very good influence in the dressing room and a natural leader. RB needs addressing, Matty Cash at Villa would be a good shout.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			His one average game is one more than most Utd players have had all season.
		
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Two better than average games, much better than average. Average if he was at City but he isn't .


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			United need to rid themselves of the malcontents before they can ever hope to move forward. I’m not about to second guess who those players are, although there have been rumours circulating for a considerable time now that Lingard is a disruptive influence. And we’ll never know the truth about Pogba, although with his contract due to finish I think that’s a moot point anyway.

Once those whose attitudes stink have been moved on, then the new manager can start over. Whoever it is will have a huge job because the club, on the face of it, seems rotten to the core. United, as well as being a tough watch these days, are tough to like.

I agree regarding the midfield. It’s been poor since Scholes hung up his boots the first time. Bruno is as close as they have come to quality in the middle of the pitch, but one, possibly two central midfielders, are an absolute must. Also a top striker - Cavani and Ronaldo will be gone in the summer, and I would be surprised if Mason Greenwood ever plays again, certainly for United.

Finally, another centre half. Lindelöf is never a Premier League player, Bailly is too injury prone which is a great shame as he has real potential. And Maguire? Biggest waste of money I have ever had the misfortune to watch. He is, as big money moves go, by some distance the most overrated, overpriced footballer ever to wear the shirt. Time to cut our losses and get rid.

I’ve lost interest in this season, and my patience with the club I have supported for nearly fifty years has all but been exhausted. They used to entertain me, even during the barren years when an occasional FA Cup win was all we had to keep us happy. Now they are just a turgid watch - a grumpy combination of players who suck the mood out of Old Trafford every time they set foot on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

You make some valid points but this is going to take money and time. Time is definitely something managers seems short off at Old Trafford and there is no guarantee any big money signings won't be Maguires or others come in with a big ego and upset the dressing room. Ronaldho now seems like a huge mistake and you can't say he's looked like being a key player week in, week out. I would prefer Cavani of the two


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## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			I only asked as your post seemed contradictory.

You said the next Manchester United manager needed time and backing but was almost writing Conte at Tothenham off. The next manager appointment at Manchester United is important as they’ve failed with all of the ones since Sir Alex.

*The PL needs a successful Manchester United team to battle with Manchester City and Liverpool.*

Click to expand...



This all day long. It seems who is going down and who is getting the fourth spot seems more interesting than who is going to win the league.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You make some valid points but this is going to take money and time. Time is definitely something managers seems short off at Old Trafford and there is no guarantee any big money signings won't be Maguires or others come in with a big ego and upset the dressing room. Ronaldho now seems like a huge mistake and you can't say he's looked like being a key player week in, week out. I would prefer Cavani of the two
		
Click to expand...

I read a piece in the Manc evening news when City allegedly missed out on Messi and Ronaldo. Basically it said how would they fit in with Citys style of play. There’s lots of talk about Citys football, but when they don’t have the ball it’s high energy Press from all the players once they don’t have it. Ronaldo and Messi don’t have that same chase the ball energy now. City have not missed having either of them. So look at Utd with Cavani and Ronaldo. Theres not a chance that’s going to happen, a high press. 
most of the Prem league has young energetic players. There’s no doubting Ronaldo and esp Cavanis class. But they are yesterdays players unfortunately. 
There’s talk of Haaland  and where he will go, but Utd with a wage bill for Pogba, Ronaldo and Haaland. 😳
Looking forward to the Haaland saga and how it pans out. Come what may for Utd to have a shout in Haaland future 4th place is critical.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This all day long. It seems who is going down and who is getting the fourth spot seems more interesting than who is going to win the league.
		
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Certainly seems to be a 2 horse race these days.

I don't agree it needs United to be successful though. Happy for them to rot to be honest   You had it too good for too many years! 

Chelsea have been the big let down this season for me


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## Swango1980 (Feb 14, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You make some valid points but this is going to take money and time. Time is definitely something managers seems short off at Old Trafford and there is no guarantee any big money signings won't be Maguires or others come in with a big ego and upset the dressing room. Ronaldho now seems like a huge mistake and you can't say he's looked like being a key player week in, week out. I would prefer Cavani of the two
		
Click to expand...

If Utd hadn't got Ronaldo, what would the alternative have been? Rely on Cavani? I love Cavani, but he has had some very quiet games lately. Not really the strikers fault, the team is just not ticking, or sustaining early momentum. We'd probably have had to rely on Greenwood up front, a position Utd have not trusted him consistently up to now, and with recent developments that would have turned out as a nightmare (I wonder how much was known about Greenwood's private life at the club before it came out in the press?). We'd then have to use Rashford or Martial up front, which was a failed experiment under Ole.

So, Ronaldo was, in my opinion, a quality signing, albeit a short term solution. Everyone knows he can put the ball in the net. United were not in the market for a long term striker last season (although I thought they should have been, instead of chasing Sancho, albeit I still hope he will come good). Even if they had got in a striker, and they were willing to cover a lot of ground, it is clear the other Utd players are unable to press anyway. I watch Rashford bust a lung to run forward when we are in possession. When out of possession, he walks back and assumes someone else will do the defending. So, a new striker would then probably be criticised for not being in the penalty area enough, a criticism made of Kane on a regular basis.

Since Ole arrived, there has generally been credit given to a lot of the big signings, along with some of the players they got rid off early on. Bruno was a really positive signing. We were in desperate need of a centre back, and Maguire was seen as a great player to add to the team. He was never a VVD, but he looked a class above what we had (even if we paid over the odds), and not many would have predicted his severe loss of confidence and form this season. Varane was also a great buy, and I still think he looks a good asset. 

But, regardless of the players that are brought in, Utd seem to revert back to the norm. Low confidence, or an attitude of "we play for Utd, we don't need to work hard" attitude. I don't know if that is because there are a group of players who simply have a stinking attitude that rubs of on the team and/or the staff are unable to create a positive atmosphere at the club that make players WANT to work hard (it is easy to say the amount of money they earn should make that a given, but it is all relative, and I'm sure many just take it for granted that this is their life, earn loads of money, be a footballer, and be cool on tiktok). Personally, I think if Utd invested in a long term quality striker and 2 quality central midfielders, we could have a fantastic team. Yet, I reckon within a month or 2, players would be sulking, blaming everyone on social media but themselves and the new guys would look a shadow of their former selves. So, it might be the most important thing is to get rid of the right people from the club before getting the right ones in.

Nobody takes Man Utd seriously anymore. Opposing fans mock them, Utd fans despair. Opponents know they have a soft core, and know that if they simply work hard and fight, Utd will often crumble, regardless if there is a gulf in quality.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 14, 2022)

4LEX said:



			The midfield is key and but I don't think Utd had a top midfield since 2003. Keane was never replaced and Giggs to his credit morphed into a CM. Utd won 5 titles from 2007-2013 with a really patchy midfield. I know the game has changed since then though. A striker, decent DM and a RB are absolute must buys.

I really like Zapata at Atalanta - he's 30 but has pace, power and is a total beast. Similar to Saha back in the day. But Utd should go all out for Haaland, if they're serious. Rice is an obvious choice as he's a DM and can play a bit too. Very good influence in the dressing room and a natural leader. RB needs addressing, *Matty Cash at Villa would be a good shout.*

Click to expand...


He's got absolutely no final ball at all. Great defensively and gets in all the right positions going forward but the man just cannot delver a ball. Id sell for anything over 30m.

Obviously hope he can be coached to be better if he doesn't leave but he's reaaalllyy starting to do my head in wasting chance after chance.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 14, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			He's got absolutely no final ball at all. Great defensively and gets in all the right positions going forward but the man just cannot delver a ball. Id sell for anything over 30m.

*Obviously hope he can be coached to be better* if he doesn't leave but he's reaaalllyy starting to do my head in wasting chance after chance.
		
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Utd would have no problems with that, look how they transformed Wan Bissaka into one of the worlds best attacking full backs with a deadly delivery...


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## Bdill93 (Feb 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Utd would have no problems with that, look how they transformed Wan Bissaka into one of the worlds best attacking full backs with a deadly delivery...
		
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Exactly... Honestly don't think that's your biggest hole at the moment either.

Go get a reaaaaaall S***house CDM and half of your problems will be solved.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If Utd hadn't got Ronaldo, what would the alternative have been? Rely on Cavani? I love Cavani, but he has had some very quiet games lately. Not really the strikers fault, the team is just not ticking, or sustaining early momentum. We'd probably have had to rely on Greenwood up front, a position Utd have not trusted him consistently up to now, and with recent developments that would have turned out as a nightmare (I wonder how much was known about Greenwood's private life at the club before it came out in the press?). We'd then have to use Rashford or Martial up front, which was a failed experiment under Ole.

So, Ronaldo was, in my opinion, a quality signing, albeit a short term solution. Everyone knows he can put the ball in the net. United were not in the market for a long term striker last season (although I thought they should have been, instead of chasing Sancho, albeit I still hope he will come good). Even if they had got in a striker, and they were willing to cover a lot of ground, it is clear the other Utd players are unable to press anyway. I watch Rashford bust a lung to run forward when we are in possession. When out of possession, he walks back and assumes someone else will do the defending. So, a new striker would then probably be criticised for not being in the penalty area enough, a criticism made of Kane on a regular basis.

Since Ole arrived, there has generally been credit given to a lot of the big signings, along with some of the players they got rid off early on. Bruno was a really positive signing. We were in desperate need of a centre back, and Maguire was seen as a great player to add to the team. He was never a VVD, but he looked a class above what we had (even if we paid over the odds), and not many would have predicted his severe loss of confidence and form this season. Varane was also a great buy, and I still think he looks a good asset.

But, regardless of the players that are brought in, Utd seem to revert back to the norm. Low confidence, or an attitude of "we play for Utd, we don't need to work hard" attitude. I don't know if that is because there are a group of players who simply have a stinking attitude that rubs of on the team and/or the staff are unable to create a positive atmosphere at the club that make players WANT to work hard (it is easy to say the amount of money they earn should make that a given, but it is all relative, and I'm sure many just take it for granted that this is their life, earn loads of money, be a footballer, and be cool on tiktok). Personally, I think if Utd invested in a long term quality striker and 2 quality central midfielders, we could have a fantastic team. Yet, I reckon within a month or 2, players would be sulking, blaming everyone on social media but themselves and the new guys would look a shadow of their former selves. So, it might be the most important thing is to get rid of the right people from the club before getting the right ones in.

Nobody takes Man Utd seriously anymore. Opposing fans mock them, Utd fans despair. Opponents know they have a soft core, and know that if they simply work hard and fight, Utd will often crumble, regardless if there is a gulf in quality.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t you also need two quality CB’s , a right back and most of all a top quality manager 

Maguires issue isn’t a confidence one it’s an ability one - he just isn’t a top level CB , not quick enough , poor with the ball , poor positioning , he gets turned inside and out by any forward with a touch of ability - but he can head a ball 

It’s quite staggering that there are big issues in the team and lots of players need to be bought - yet over the last 5 years or so no other club has spent as much 
where the heck has all that money been spent on


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2022)

United simply need a huge rebuild from back to front. Not sure how long De Gea has at the top level. The defence (Perhaps with Varane as an exception) is poor and easily got at. Nothing in midfield in terms of holding and protecting the back four and providing a service to the forwards. The wide players aren't delivering telling balls or getting past full backs. Who will get the goals once Ronaldho goes. Greenwood is done at United irrespective of the verdict and Rashford looks like a lost soul. It will cost millions to rebuild to the levels they were at, and they need to get the deadwood out first. That means United could be missing from any European comps and a midtable team for a few seasons. The issue with that is the fans won't accept that, the manager won't get enough time and it'll carry on being a managerial merry-go-round with panic buys, plastering over the cracks and wondering why they can't make top four


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t you also need two quality CB’s , a right back and most of all a top quality manager

Maguires issue isn’t a confidence one it’s an ability one - he just isn’t a top level CB , not quick enough , poor with the ball , poor positioning , he gets turned inside and out by any forward with a touch of ability - but he can head a ball

It’s quite staggering that there are big issues in the team and lots of players need to be bought - yet over the last 5 years or so no other club has spent as much
where the heck has all that money been spent on
		
Click to expand...

I've just done 5 minutes research and come up with a team Liverpool could field for the same amount of money as man U's top 3 signings - Pogba, Sancho and McGuire - is that about 240 million?

From memory or a quick google, I think our transfer fees were:-

Alison - 66 mill
TAA - free
Matip - free
Robbo 8 mill
Gomez - 3.5 mill
Milner - free
Curtis Jones - free
Hendo - 16 mill ?
Mane - 37 mill?
Salah - 38 mill?
Firminho - 29 mill

197.50 mill approximately

If I throw in an Angel Di Maria, I could also  get a few on the subs bench such as an Elliot (4.3 mill) and some fella called VVD 76 mill.

11-13 of our current first teamers for 3-4 of man U's most expensive, not including Lukaku.

I'm sure a Burnley fan could get about 60 odd players going back 10 years for that though.


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## fundy (Feb 14, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I've just done 5 minutes research and come up with a team Liverpool could field for the same amount of money as man U's top 3 signings - Pogba, Sancho and McGuire - is that about 240 million?

From memory or a quick google, I think our transfer fees were:-

Alison - 66 mill
TAA - free
Matip - free
Robbo 8 mill
Gomez - 3.5 mill
Milner - free
Curtis Jones - free
Hendo - 16 mill ?
Mane - 37 mill?
Salah - 38 mill?
Firminho - 29 mill

197.50 mill approximately

If I throw in an Angel Di Maria, I could also  get a few on the subs bench such as an Elliot (4.3 mill) and some fella called VVD 76 mill.

11-13 of our current first teamers for 3-4 of man U's most expensive, not including Lukaku.

I'm sure a Burnley fan could get about 60 odd players going back 10 years for that though. 

Click to expand...

almost like you havent spent 55m on keita, 40m on fabinho, 40m jota, 40m on diaz, 36m on konate, 35m on oxlade chamberlain, 20m on thiago or do we not count that 1/4bn + too?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don’t you also need two quality CB’s , a right back and most of all a top quality manager

Maguires issue isn’t a confidence one it’s an ability one - he just isn’t a top level CB , not quick enough , poor with the ball , poor positioning , he gets turned inside and out by any forward with a touch of ability - but he can head a ball

It’s quite staggering that there are big issues in the team and lots of players need to be bought - yet over the last 5 years or so no other club has spent as much
where the heck has all that money been spent on
		
Click to expand...

Probably one CB, I rate Varane. Also, I'm trying to be semi realistic. I'm not expecting Utd try and find 11 world class players in every position. However, central midfield is a huge problem, as it leaves the defense hopelessly exposed, and offers no sustained pressure on the opposition when we have possession. So, I think we need to get that in place, then see what happens with Maguire.

Yes, we need a right back. Dalot seems a decent squad player, and as much as Wan Bissaka could be great in a dogged defensive side, I do not see him ever being able to offer much attacking threat. 

Yes, we need a top manager who the board, and the fans will have patience with, trust and support. But, we know that is a decision that is expected before next season.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			almost like you havent spent 55m on keita, 40m on fabinho, 40m jota, 40m on diaz, 36m on konate, 35m on oxlade chamberlain, 20m on thiago or do we not count that 1/4bn + too?
		
Click to expand...

Shall we start a list with Keane, Schmeichel, Cantona, etc and compare to that lot?  

There is no denying Utd have spent a lot of money and not got close to City in quite a few years, with Liverpool also generally well ahead. 

Have Liverpool wasted any money over the years, in the many years they won nothing? Andy Carroll springs to mind.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Shall we start a list with Keane, Schmeichel, Cantona, etc and compare to that lot? 

There is no denying Utd have spent a lot of money and not got close to City in quite a few years, with Liverpool also generally well ahead.

Have Liverpool wasted any money over the years, in the many years they won nothing? Andy Carroll springs to mind.
		
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I’m not sure we have ever wasted money at the level Utd have over the last decade since they last won the title - Carroll at £30mil a snip compared to others 

But we went through that period and it’s now Utd going through it 

And we can always remember the words of Ryan Giggs


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Shall we start a list with Keane, Schmeichel, Cantona, etc and compare to that lot? 

There is no denying Utd have spent a lot of money and not got close to City in quite a few years, with Liverpool also generally well ahead.

Have Liverpool wasted any money over the years, in the many years they won nothing? Andy Carroll springs to mind.
		
Click to expand...

Benteke for £41m????


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## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			almost like you havent spent 55m on keita, 40m on fabinho, 40m jota, 40m on diaz, 36m on konate, 35m on oxlade chamberlain, 20m on thiago or do we not count that 1/4bn + too?
		
Click to expand...

that from a manager ( Klopp) who is quoted as saying

_Other clubs can go out and spend money and collect top players. I want to do it differently. I would even do it differently if I could spend that money."_


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## fundy (Feb 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			that from a manager ( Klopp) who is quoted as saying

_Other clubs can go out and spend money and collect top players. I want to do it differently. I would even do it differently if I could spend that money."_

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think any of the top 6+ clubs in the prem are in very large glass houses on this, just degrees of size of the glass house!!!


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## Swango1980 (Feb 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m not sure we have ever wasted money at the level Utd have over the last decade since they last won the title - Carroll at £30mil a snip compared to others

But we went through that period and it’s now Utd going through it

And we can always remember the words of Ryan Giggs

View attachment 41184

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Well, maybe he'll eat his words, but a few years to wait to find out?

No doubt United are relatively awful. But,  I always have that feeling that if City or Liverpool lost their manager, they could potentially fall further than Utd are now. Clearly it cannot be proven, unless it happens. 

Had Utd not had the finances or global reach, maybe they'd be even worse that they are now. They effectively earned a lot of this money and popularity during the Fergie era. But, I live in hope we get a great manager from somewhere, and he can point his finger at the negativities behind the scenes, get rid and start to rebuild.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			think any of the top 6+ clubs in the prem are in very large glass houses on this, just degrees of size of the glass house!!!
		
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Totally agree, sometimes some folk forget there in glass houses. 👍 
Its strange talking about Utd looking to rebuild. I read a piece the other day where it quoted that City could field a team in 5 years time with the young talent they have developed and bought in. There’s a discussion about Utd not having a centre forward but I am sure Utd bought a lad off City Who was classed as a super kid Charlie McNeil.I would be tempted to Chuck him in.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			think any of the top 6+ clubs in the prem are in very large glass houses on this, just degrees of size of the glass house!!!
		
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 Think it’s a bit different when spending the money the club has earned as opposed to spending - debt , loans , owners personal money etc 

Any money large or small we spend has come from income the club has generated- not always the case for a number of clubs

And that’s the point Klopp was alluding too 

Many clubs can’t afford to waste money on failed signings - for some it’s no issue , they just go out and get another one to replace them without worrying about balancing the books 

It’s like City somehow managing to make a profit during Covid when clubs made losses in commercial revenue- must have been all those “partners” helping them out allowing to spend £100mil on a player ( despite Pep saying they can’t spend £100mil on a player )


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			almost like you havent spent 55m on keita, 40m on fabinho, 40m jota, 40m on diaz, 36m on konate, 35m on oxlade chamberlain, 20m on thiago or do we not count that 1/4bn + too?
		
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It depends on how you take my point?

Yes, we have spent all of that on the rest of the squad, just as Everton, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea have.

The point was that we can field a very good team of 11-13 players for the same cost that Man U spent on 3-4. That's also why I made the Burnley analogy - they are existing in the Prem on an absolute shoestring when you compare their squad to ours and theirs in the same way. Not sure if Brentford can do the same vs Burnley???

Agreed, we wasted loads of money in the 90's and 2000's the way Man U are doing now and it's why I can see the tell tale signs, although we had a lot of our best players taken by bigger predators, like Arsenal, when we were trying to rebuild. United don't seem to have that problem in the main, apart from the odd incident (Ronaldo to Real).

We do have a glass house built up over many years, not a diamond-encrusted, gold leaf, Lapis Lazuli filigree-ed FOC council house to shout out the window from though.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Shall we start a list with Keane, Schmeichel, Cantona, etc and compare to that lot? 

There is no denying Utd have spent a lot of money and not got close to City in quite a few years, with Liverpool also generally well ahead.

Have Liverpool wasted any money over the years, in the many years they won nothing? Andy Carroll springs to mind.
		
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Totally agree.

Man U's second great team (1996 onwards) were built on great scouting, recruitment, nurture and a few healthy big signings. The class of 92 plus big signings - I dont look negatively at this in any way.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I read a piece in the Manc evening news when City allegedly missed out on Messi and Ronaldo. Basically it said how would they fit in with Citys style of play. There’s lots of talk about Citys football, but when they don’t have the ball it’s high energy Press from all the players once they don’t have it. Ronaldo and Messi don’t have that same chase the ball energy now. City have not missed having either of them. So look at Utd with Cavani and Ronaldo. Theres not a chance that’s going to happen, a high press.
most of the Prem league has young energetic players. There’s no doubting Ronaldo and esp Cavanis class. But they are yesterdays players unfortunately.
There’s talk of Haaland  and where he will go, but Utd with a wage bill for Pogba, Ronaldo and Haaland. 😳
Looking forward to the Haaland saga and how it pans out. Come what may for Utd to have a shout in Haaland future 4th place is critical.
		
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Do you think that City's system could still work with one "passenger" in the team that doesn't do the chasing and pressing? Passenger is in inverted commas because obviously Messi and Ronaldo are/have been world class players for many years and wouldn't really be a passenger but in terms of pressing it was the easiest word to use. Could you sacrifice one player from that high tempo to get a truly top player into your first 11? I'm actually thinking more in terms of having an out and out striker like Lewandowski, Haaland etc rather than the two mentioned, who is told to stay up front and just stick away some of the many chances that City create. 

On your other point, I don't think it would be a Utd with Haaland, Pogba and Ronaldo on massive wages. I think Pogba and Ronaldo will both go at the end of the season so that will free up over half a million a week in wages.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Do you think that City's system could still work with one "passenger" in the team that doesn't do the chasing and pressing? Passenger is in inverted commas because obviously Messi and Ronaldo are/have been world class players for many years and wouldn't really be a passenger but in terms of pressing it was the easiest word to use. Could you sacrifice one player from that high tempo to get a truly top player into your first 11? I'm actually thinking more in terms of having an out and out striker like Lewandowski, Haaland etc rather than the two mentioned, who is told to stay up front and just stick away some of the many chances that City create.

On your other point, I don't think it would be a Utd with Haaland, Pogba and Ronaldo on massive wages. I think Pogba and Ronaldo will both go at the end of the season so that will free up over half a million a week in wages.
		
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👍
Ironically the term used was “ passenger”. Part of the discussion was that Aguero was becoming a passenger as his legs were going. Hence Jesus was getting more game time Because of his energy he could press. Personally if City had the choice I would of gone for Messi. But that’s irrelevant now. I can see Pogba going, but for me Ronaldo is the one to watch. For me, Is he stuck there now? Who else could afford him or want him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			👍
 but for me Ronaldo is the one to watch. For me, Is he stuck there now? Who else could afford him or want him.
		
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We were having this chat at the weekend. The bigs leagues in Europe neither want him or can afford him, don't see him as the type to take a big pay cut, so is America his next move? China is not the cash cow it once was so that one is ruled out, even if he wanted to go there which I would doubt. He could score a bucket load in the MLS, sponsors would love him, nice lifestyle etc. I don't see him sticking another year at Utd with them in this current state and it would surely suit Utd to get him off the books. 

I'm hoping he stays, Pogba signs a new deal. We couldn't be that lucky, could we


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## adam6177 (Feb 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm hoping he stays, Pogba signs a new deal. We couldn't be that lucky, could we 

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It's funny, as that when I mention that scenario to man utd fans I work with they want both of them to stay.... I honestly think they still believe the media hype rather than believing actual performances.

Maybe saying both have been a flop is a bit strong... But not a million miles off.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			It's funny, as that when I mention that scenario to man utd fans I work with they want both of them to stay.... I honestly think they still believe the media hype rather than believing actual performances.

Maybe saying both have been a flop is a bit strong... But not a million miles off.
		
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Wow, they really want them to stay . Let's hope they have the ear of people in the board .

When you think of the money tied up with them both, fees, wages, extras, the effect they have on the team and the performances on the pitch, it doesn't add up to a whole lot of good. I think Pogba is the bigger waste but neither are positive for the club as a whole.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We were having this chat at the weekend. The bigs leagues in Europe neither want him or can afford him, don't see him as the type to take a big pay cut, so is America his next move? China is not the cash cow it once was so that one is ruled out, even if he wanted to go there which I would doubt. He could score a bucket load in the MLS, sponsors would love him, nice lifestyle etc. I don't see him sticking another year at Utd with them in this current state and it would surely suit Utd to get him off the books.

*I'm hoping he stays, Pogba signs a new deal. We couldn't be that lucky, could we* 

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The reason that fans can be quite indecisive is that, technically, he is not just better than any other player we have. He is light years ahead of them. Even since his return, he is the one central midfielder that you feel can turn the game in our favour, despite the poor performance from the team. I'd even say he is much technically superior to Bruno, who gives the ball away so much (hopefully because he feels pressured into taking too many risks). However, the downside is that it seems his mentality is nowhere near what it could be on or off the pitch. So, in that sense, on the balance of things, I would not be sad to see him go.

The hope, I am guessing, for some fans is that a manager comes in, and Utd bring in the right players (especially in defensive midfield), that somehow Utd can find the perfect position for Pogba on the pitch. That he can simply play to his strengths, and we have other players on the pitch that can lead and influence the team, and influence Pogba positively (because Pogba is certainly not a leader, I think he is the type of player that needs players around him to shoulder that responsibility and influence him, rather than him feeling he has to influence his team mates).


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## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2022)

Re Pogba there’s a couple  Of things that concern me.
1, since his transfer in August 2016 he has played 131 games in the prem on average 26 a season. He is missing 30% of games.
3, in that time he has made 36 assists. That’s one be every 3 or 4 games. Those stats don’t sound world class for world class wages.
Plus 29 goals in that time and 5 in the last 2 1/2 seasons.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The reason that fans can be quite indecisive is that, technically, he is not just better than any other player we have. He is light years ahead of them. Even since his return, he is the one central midfielder that you feel can turn the game in our favour, despite the poor performance from the team. I'd even say he is much technically superior to Bruno, who gives the ball away so much (hopefully because he feels pressured into taking too many risks). However, the downside is that it seems his mentality is nowhere near what it could be on or off the pitch. So, in that sense, on the balance of things, I would not be sad to see him go.

The hope, I am guessing, for some fans is that a manager comes in, and Utd bring in the right players (especially in defensive midfield), that somehow Utd can find the perfect position for Pogba on the pitch. That he can simply play to his strengths, and we have other players on the pitch that can lead and influence the team, and influence Pogba positively (because Pogba is certainly not a leader, I think he is the type of player that needs players around him to shoulder that responsibility and influence him, rather than him feeling he has to influence his team mates).
		
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How many games does Pogba play inbetween the 'true Pogba' matches? Does he show his class every 6th game, 7th, 8th? He may be technically superior but if he doesn't turn up, what value is he to your team?

Can you afford to give him a new contract, loyalty bonus, signing fee plus inflated salary, in the hope the new manager and new CDM can unlock him?


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## adam6177 (Feb 15, 2022)

Maybe we're being unkind, maybe they are class.... For a mid table club. If the cap fits.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Re Pogba there’s a couple  Of things that concern me.
1, since his transfer in August 2016 he has played 131 games in the prem on average 26 a season. He is missing 30% of games.
3, in that time he has made 36 assists.* That’s one be every 3 or 4 games.* Those stats don’t sound world class for world class wages.
		
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Do you not think it more likely that those assists come in bunches? He has a wonder game, 2 assists, then nothing for 6-7 games? I can't be bothered to go through the stats to check if that is the case but that is the feeling I get, admitedly as someone who doesn't watch utd very often but is invariably disappointed by his displays when I do (well not really disappointed but you get the gist ).


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Re Pogba there’s a couple  Of things that concern me.
1, since his transfer in August 2016 he has played 131 games in the prem on average 26 a season. He is missing 30% of games.
3, in that time he has made 36 assists. That’s one be every 3 or 4 games. Those stats don’t sound world class for world class wages.
		
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Absolutely, his stats are not impressive, and thus many would not cry to see him go.

But, the team have been pretty diabolical since he joined. Headless chickens. I know Ronaldo is older now, but even he is going through his worst goal drought in over a decade, at a time Utd have a friendly fixture list. Some players have gone through purple patches, but I don't think any player can boast about their longer terms stats.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Maybe we're being unkind, maybe they are class.... For a mid table club. If the cap fits.
		
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We could well be unkind but I think pogba is the tip of a massive  problem iceberg at Utd. 
I wonder where a new manager would start. Whoever comes in needs to be a quality manager but he is currently a quality manager at a Place now that is not drowning in problems He will Inherit.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How many games does Pogba play inbetween the 'true Pogba' matches? Does he show his class every 6th game, 7th, 8th? He may be technically superior but if he doesn't turn up, what value is he to your team?

Can you afford to give him a new contract, loyalty bonus, signing fee plus inflated salary, in the hope the new manager and new CDM can unlock him?
		
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All of that is relevant. That is the decision the club need to make. It would be nice if the new manager could offer their opinion, as they might see a crucial role for him to play, or they may want him far far away from the club. But, perhaps this decision needs to be made before the new guy comes in, not sure how the timing of all these decisions will work out.

I'm simply saying that he is obviously technically more gifted than any other player we currently have, without a doubt. After he returned, I had that level of anticipation that he could do something great, or he could cause problems to the opposition. Whereas, if Fred, McTomminay, Mata or Matic made an appearance after a long time out, I would have absolutely no hope whatsoever that they could cause the opposition defence problems. My only hope it that they can somehow disrupt the opposition attack, not get hopelessly out of position or make any horrific errors.  At best, I hope they simply have a steady game.


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## Neilds (Feb 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How many games does Pogba play inbetween the '*true Pogba*' matches? Does he show his class every 6th game, 7th, 8th? He may be technically superior but if he doesn't turn up, what value is he to your team?

Can you afford to give him a new contract, loyalty bonus, signing fee plus inflated salary, in the hope the new manager and new CDM can unlock him?
		
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Maybe the 'true Pogba' is the on that appears lazy, uninterested, etc and the rare sighting of the brilliant player is just a fleeting spectacle?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Maybe the 'true Pogba' is the on that appears lazy, uninterested, etc and the rare sighting of the brilliant player is just a fleeting spectacle?
		
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He is like Nani. Virtually unplayable for one game, nothing special for 9 games.

I guess the difference is that, whilst Nani was at the club he was a luxury player we were not desperate for, we generally had other key players we could rely on. Whereas with Pogba, it is almost like many pin more hope that he'll suddenly come good, because we can't rely on anyone else in the team. I think another difference, and a key one, is that Pogba has been consistently good in other teams (I didn't watch them, but that is what I hear from his Juve and France performances). So, one hopes different players and the right manager could get the best out of him week in, week out.

But, as a few of us have pointed out, the problems seem to run much much deeper than highlighting any single player.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Maybe the 'true Pogba' is the on that appears lazy, uninterested, etc and the rare sighting of the brilliant player is just a fleeting spectacle?
		
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I agree. I put that up there, used quotation marks but should hae used a winking emoji really, as every so often he has a good game and the commentators use that phrase. It makes me chuckle each time. If it is only one in 6-8 games then it isn't hard to work out which is the real version.


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## Foxholer (Feb 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How many games does Pogba play inbetween the 'true Pogba' matches? Does he show his class every 6th game, 7th, 8th? He may be technically superior but if he doesn't turn up, what value is he to your team?

Can you afford to give him a new contract, loyalty bonus, signing fee plus inflated salary, in the hope the new manager and new CDM can unlock him?
		
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Much as it pains me to do so, I believe Rio Ferdinand is likely correct suggesting that Pogba needs to given a bollocking when he's not performing well. Huge talent, simply cruising, so needs to be woken up or replaced !


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## Billysboots (Feb 15, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Much as it pains me to do so, I believe Rio Ferdinand is likely correct suggesting that Pogba needs to given a bollocking when he's not performing well. Huge talent, simply cruising, so needs to be woken up or replaced !
		
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He is an infuriating player, by some distance the most infuriating I have seen. More often than not outstanding in the blue of France. More often than not bang average in the red of United.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2022)

In regards Pogba - I hope Man Utd extend his contact and he stays there 

Got to be the most expensive flop in Prem history

Wasted a huge amount of talent

He is 28 now , not a young developing kid , should be at his prime 

Even Fernandes is turning into a one season penalty wonder at the moment


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## Bdill93 (Feb 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In regards Pogba - I hope Man Utd extend his contact and he stays there

Got to be the most expensive flop in Prem history

Wasted a huge amount of talent

He is 28 now , not a young developing kid , should be at his prime

Even Fernandes is turning into a one season penalty wonder at the moment
		
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Its great isn't it


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In regards Pogba - I hope Man Utd extend his contact and he stays there

Got to be the most expensive flop in Prem history

Wasted a huge amount of talent

He is 28 now , not a young developing kid , should be at his prime

Even Fernandes is turning into a one season penalty wonder at the moment
		
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It depends how you define flop. He hasn't been great, but the entire team is a flop. Pogba, to many, is still one of the most talented in an awful team. It is not like he is out of his depth amongst those players. So, if you are purely going on transfer fee and whether a player was part of a successful side, then your definition could be correct (also need to consider the inflation of transfer fees through the years). But, not necessarily if you are just going on how bad the player was within the team they became part off.

Forlan, Kleberson, Djembe Djembe and Sanchez were arguably bigger flops at Utd. Bentley and Rebrov at Spurs. Kezman, Shevchenko and Mutu at Chelsea. Boumsong at Newcastle. Diao, Aquilani and Carroll at Liverpool. Brolin at Leeds. Jeffers at Arsenal. 

Personally, I would rather have Pogba in my side than many of those players, even if it meant he was still more expensive after inflation was accounted for. I'm not saying Pogba is amazing, but there have been some stinkers in the 30 years of the Premier League, I bet there are more than I forgot about.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It depends how you define flop. He hasn't been great, but the entire team is a flop. Pogba, to many, is still one of the most talented in an awful team. It is not like he is out of his depth amongst those players. So, if you are purely going on transfer fee and whether a player was part of a successful side, then your definition could be correct (also need to consider the inflation of transfer fees through the years). But, not necessarily if you are just going on how bad the player was within the team they became part off.

Forlan, Kleberson, Djembe Djembe and Sanchez were arguably bigger flops at Utd. Bentley and Rebrov at Spurs. Kezman, Shevchenko and Mutu at Chelsea. Boumsong at Newcastle. Diao, Aquilani and Carroll at Liverpool. Brolin at Leeds. Jeffers at Arsenal.

Personally, I would rather have Pogba in my side than many of those players, even if it meant he was still more expensive after inflation was accounted for. I'm not saying Pogba is amazing, but there have been some stinkers in the 30 years of the Premier League, I bet there are more than I forgot about.
		
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You can't miss Veron from any list like that. He was the daddy for many years.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You can't miss Veron from any list like that. He was the daddy for many years.
		
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Yeah, I did consider it. Though, he wasn't really that bad. It was just we had Keane and Scholes in the middle. I think we could have bought pretty much any player in the world and they would have looked poor in comparison.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You can't miss Veron from any list like that. He was the daddy for many years.
		
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Think you can add Benteke at £40+ million at Liverpool. Plenty of sides have had players with big reputations that never produced it and Pogba is just one of many. How much of that is down to the side he's playing with is open to discussion but with his talent surely he should be a shining light in a fog of mediocrity


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It depends how you define flop. He hasn't been great, but the entire team is a flop. Pogba, to many, is still one of the most talented in an awful team. It is not like he is out of his depth amongst those players. So, if you are purely going on transfer fee and whether a player was part of a successful side, then your definition could be correct (also need to consider the inflation of transfer fees through the years). But, not necessarily if you are just going on how bad the player was within the team they became part off.

Forlan, Kleberson, Djembe Djembe and Sanchez were arguably bigger flops at Utd. Bentley and Rebrov at Spurs. Kezman, Shevchenko and Mutu at Chelsea. Boumsong at Newcastle. Diao, Aquilani and Carroll at Liverpool. Brolin at Leeds. Jeffers at Arsenal.

Personally, I would rather have Pogba in my side than many of those players, even if it meant he was still more expensive after inflation was accounted for. I'm not saying Pogba is amazing, but there have been some stinkers in the 30 years of the Premier League, I bet there are more than I forgot about.
		
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The club spent a world record £90mil on him and what they have got from Pogba is nowhere near the level of what’s needed 

It’s a huge expensive flop - your greatest manager had no issues getting rid of him yet someone paid £90mins to bring him back 

It’s been over 5 years since he has been back and his has been there through each manager and it’s been a failure 

I think it’s great that Man Utd fans want to keep him and seem to be hanging on to some forlorn hope that he finally comes good

Any other top club would have just got rid by now 

He isn’t suited to the Prem - it has just been an expensive failure  , prob just overtakes Veron as one of the biggest flops in the Prem


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The club spent a world record £90mil on him and what they have got from Pogba is nowhere near the level of what’s needed

It’s a huge expensive flop - your greatest manager had no issues getting rid of him yet someone paid £90mins to bring him back

It’s been over 5 years since he has been back and his has been there through each manager and it’s been a failure

I think it’s great that Man Utd fans want to keep him and seem to be hanging on to some forlorn hope that he finally comes good

Any other top club would have just got rid by now

He isn’t suited to the Prem - it has just been an expensive failure  , prob just overtakes Veron as one of the biggest flops in the Prem
		
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I think you are having an argument no one is having. In reality, no one in here is saying Pogba has been a success, or that he has been value for money. Everyone actually agrees with these things you are saying. The conversation simply got going because, despite the failure of Paul Pogba, he is still the best of a bad bunch, in terms of technical ability (not necessarily mentality). Therefore, that is why 100% of fans are not demanding he gets booted out of the club. It is not like he is quite clearly performing abysmally in comparison to his team mates, he still at least shows potential to be an important part of a team (whether that is at United, I am extremely doubtful).

My response to you was simply your statement he was the biggest flop in history in the PL, which is open to interpretation. If you moved this Man Utd team back and forth in time, so that they were buying Pogba at the same time some of these other awful signings were made by other clubs, Utd would obviously have not paid £89 million for Pogba. They may have still paid more, but no where near £89 million. They'd have paid the equivalent to record transfer fees at that particular time. And, as I was saying, if that was the case I'd still have Pogba in this Utd team, than Francis Jeffers, Carroll, Benteke, Brolin, etc. So, that would mean that, in my opinion Pogba is not the biggest flop in PL history.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think you are having an argument no one is having. In reality, no one in here is saying Pogba has been a success, or that he has been value for money. Everyone actually agrees with these things you are saying. The conversation simply got going because, despite the failure of Paul Pogba, he is still the best of a bad bunch, in terms of technical ability (not necessarily mentality). Therefore, that is why 100% of fans are not demanding he gets booted out of the club. It is not like he is quite clearly performing abysmally in comparison to his team mates, he still at least shows potential to be an important part of a team (whether that is at United, I am extremely doubtful).

My response to you was simply your statement he was the biggest flop in history in the PL, which is open to interpretation. If you moved this Man Utd team back and forth in time, so that they were buying Pogba at the same time some of these other awful signings were made by other clubs, Utd would obviously have not paid £89 million for Pogba. They may have still paid more, but no where near £89 million. They'd have paid the equivalent to record transfer fees at that particular time. And, as I was saying, if that was the case I'd still have Pogba in this Utd team, than Francis Jeffers, Carroll, Benteke, Brolin, etc. So, that would mean that, in my opinion Pogba is not the biggest flop in PL history.
		
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Argument ? Where is the argument ? 

It’s called a debate - I called Pogba a flop and then enhanced my opinion on why I believe he is a flop and the most expensive one in Prem history 

Brolin , Jeffers etc are irrelevant- this is just about Pogba

The rest of your post is just white noise - maybe you are trying to persuade yourself that it would be a good thing to keep him .

It shows that I suspect most rival fans will be happy for Pogba to stay at Utd - because he is the poster boy for the teams failures 

The good news is Maguire isn’t too far behind as well - that’s £80mil worth of failure there as well


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## Junior (Feb 15, 2022)

Pogba is the best player in the Prem for 10 games a season. 

He's flopped as he's always injured, not bothered , too busy learning a new dance etc etc.   

Low and behold his contract is up and he needs to start playing again.  So the rumours circulate that he wants to stay , he'll work hard in training, and will start to play well again so his stock will rise.

Get him and his scumbag agent away from the club.  I'd rather have DVB in the team than pay him £500k + a week.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 15, 2022)

Junior said:



*Pogba is the best player in the Prem for 10 games a season.*

He's flopped as he's always injured, not bothered , too busy learning a new dance etc etc.  

Low and behold his contract is up and he needs to start playing again.  So the rumours circulate that he wants to stay , he'll work hard in training, and will start to play well again so his stock will rise.

Get him and his scumbag agent away from the club.  I'd rather have DVB in the team than pay him £500k + a week.
		
Click to expand...

Bold statement that


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Argument ? Where is the argument ?

It’s called a debate - I called Pogba a flop and then enhanced my opinion on why I believe he is a flop and the most expensive one in Prem history

Brolin , Jeffers etc are irrelevant- this is just about Pogba

The rest of your post is just white noise - maybe you are trying to persuade yourself that it would be a good thing to keep him .

It shows that I suspect most rival fans will be happy for Pogba to stay at Utd - because he is the poster boy for the teams failures

The good news is Maguire isn’t too far behind as well - that’s £80mil worth of failure there as well
		
Click to expand...

Calm down. I know you get excited when you get to be critical over United. But, you are just making noise now.

The argument? You were trying to convince everyone Pogba was a flop, yet not one person said he had been a success. So, I was just clarifying there was no argument to be had over that. Thankfully you clarified that in you last post.

The debate WE were having is simply that, I do not agree that he is the BIGGEST flop in Premier League history. Of course Brolin and Jeffers are relevant, how are they not? How can you define the biggest flop in history, and then disregard other well known flops from the debate? Every flop is relevant in this discussion, whether you personally think they were a bigger flop or not.

I appreciate you are a Liverpool fan, and probably the type that one is likely to treat your opinion with a pinch of salt when it comes to Man Utd topics. Personally, I'd have Pogba in my side, than the Benteke or Carroll Liverpool bought. As far as I remember, Francis Jeffers was one of the most highly anticipated young strikers in PL history, and then was absolutely awful when he went to Arsenal. I don't even remember Arsenal fans saying he showed great quality in the off game, and just had to be more consistent.


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## Junior (Feb 15, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Bold statement that 

Click to expand...

Just my opinion.  I've watched him at his best, and his very worst.   He can be a Rolls Royce of a player gliding across the pitch.  Amazing touch, strong on the ball, great vision etc etc, but,  I don't think I've seen a more inconsistent player in 35 years at OT.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Calm down. I know you get excited when you get to be critical over United. But, you are just making noise now.

The argument? You were trying to convince everyone Pogba was a flop, yet not one person said he had been a success. So, I was just clarifying there was no argument to be had over that. Thankfully you clarified that in you last post.

The debate WE were having is simply that, I do not agree that he is the BIGGEST flop in Premier League history. Of course Brolin and Jeffers are relevant, how are they not? How can you define the biggest flop in history, and then disregard other well known flops from the debate? Every flop is relevant in this discussion, whether you personally think they were a bigger flop or not.

I appreciate you are a Liverpool fan, and probably the type that one is likely to treat your opinion with a pinch of salt when it comes to Man Utd topics. Personally, I'd have Pogba in my side, than the Benteke or Carroll Liverpool bought. As far as I remember, Francis Jeffers was one of the most highly anticipated young strikers in PL history, and then was absolutely awful when he went to Arsenal. I don't even remember Arsenal fans saying he showed great quality in the off game, and just had to be more consistent.
		
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😂😂 Im calm , it’s just a debate and I don’t need to “convince” anyone 😂😂

If you want to convince yourself and use other irrelevant players as some comparison then crack on 😂😂


Junior said:



Just my opinion.  I've watched him at his best, and his very worst.   He can be a Rolls Royce of a player gliding across the pitch.  Amazing touch, strong on the ball, great vision etc etc, but,  I don't think I've seen a more inconsistent player in 35 years at OT.
		
Click to expand...

For Juventus he was outstanding playing in that left midfield role and when with France he looks great 

All the ability is there - application , attitude etc all missing meaning it’s a rarity that it ever turns up. Maybe it’s just too much hard work in the Prem


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2022)

Junior said:



Just my opinion.  I've watched him at his best, and his very worst.   He can be a Rolls Royce of a player gliding across the pitch.  Amazing touch, strong on the ball, great vision etc etc, but,  I don't think I've seen a more inconsistent player in 35 years at OT.
		
Click to expand...

The bold bit is reckoning it is 10 games a season. Are you counting Carabou Cup matches against league 1 teams in that .

I guess it is the inconsistencies that really annoy. You know there is a player in there, he just doesn't show it often enough.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂 Im calm , it’s just a debate and I don’t need to “convince” anyone 😂😂

If you want to convince yourself and use other irrelevant players as some comparison then crack on 😂😂


For Juventus he was outstanding playing in that left midfield role and when with France he looks great

All the ability is there - application , attitude etc all missing meaning it’s a rarity that it ever turns up. Maybe it’s just too much hard work in the Prem
		
Click to expand...

I can imagine when you are defining the "biggest flop of all time", you only allow a short list of Man Utd players. All other players are irrelevant in such a short list, especially Liverpool players


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## GB72 (Feb 15, 2022)

Just being pedantic but surely the whole point of a debate is to convince people of your side of the argument and so, yes, to win a debate you do need to convince someone.  

Producing comparitive players to counteract the mooted point is relevant in that a debate is the act of producing arguments and counter arguments. 

Not having a go or staring anything, just a bit bored.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 15, 2022)

Junior said:



Just my opinion.  I've watched him at his best, and his very worst.   He can be a Rolls Royce of a player gliding across the pitch.  Amazing touch, strong on the ball, great vision etc etc, but,  I don't think I've seen a more inconsistent player in 35 years at OT.
		
Click to expand...

Ill give him credit, during the World Cup 2018 he was absolute class. I remember watching him thinking if he played like that for united, they'd have one hell of a player in the midfield.  But I cant say I've ever seen him do it in the prem. I don't watch all your games though!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I can imagine when you are defining the "biggest flop of all time", you only allow a short list of Man Utd players. All other players are irrelevant in such a short list, especially Liverpool players 

Click to expand...

😂😂 nah there are a few other non Man Utd players 

Schevchenko 
Mangala
Torres ( to Chelsea )
Alves
Carroll

but none come close to Pogba

Lukaku may challenge that on his current path


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## Bdill93 (Feb 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂 nah there are a few other non Man Utd players

Schevchenko
Mangala
Torres ( to Chelsea )
Alves
Carroll

but none come close to Pogba

Lukaku may challenge that on his current path
		
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Sanchez to United has to be up there too! Ill never forget the ridiculous announcement video of him playing piano 

Also.. When are we calling Grealish a flop? End of next season?


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## Junior (Feb 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂 nah there are a few other non Man Utd players

Schevchenko
Mangala
Torres ( to Chelsea )
Alves
Carroll

but none come close to Pogba

Lukaku may challenge that on his current path
		
Click to expand...

Benteke, Aquilani, Ballotelli  combined come close ?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

As a proud "telly clapper", I am disappointed the Man Utd v Brighton game is not on the TV tonight.

It was originally meant to be on BT Sport before it was postponed due to Covid. Apparently UEFA permitted clubs to rearrange fixtures on Champions League nights, so long as they were not broadcast. I wonder if BT Sport will get a bit of a refund, given that they paid quite a large fee for a specified number of Premier League games (I assume that is how it works)


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2022)

Junior said:



			Benteke, Aquilani, Ballotelli  combined come close ?  

Click to expand...

Benteke just the wrong player for the system - £32 mil wasted , would certainly be included if he lasted longer , same with Balotelli 

Aquilani- that’s an injury flop , was never fit enough to play


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Sanchez to United has to be up there too! Ill never forget the ridiculous announcement video of him playing piano 

Also.. When are we calling Grealish a flop? End of next season?
		
Click to expand...

Since his transfer he has played 17 of 25 games. He is missing 32% of games
In that time hes made 2 assists, thats one every 8 or 9 games. Those stats don’t sound world class for world class wages.
Plus 2 goals in that time

Not a decent sample size yet but slippery slope


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2022)

btw can I add Pepe to the discussion before anyone else does


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2022)

All this talk about how bad UTD are but there still forth I think I saw on MOTD.
That dosnt say much for the rest of the prem.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			All this talk about how bad UTD are but there still forth I think I saw on MOTD.
That dosnt say much for the rest of the prem.
		
Click to expand...

That is true most years sadly. For all that utd are underperforming they still have a goalkeeper in world class form, incidentally, remember that wobbly spell he had a few years back?, and individuals who can pull a goal out of nowhere. They are not a coherent team but their individuals can still bring the points in.

The difference is shown against the top teams who just rip them apart.


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## adam6177 (Feb 15, 2022)

After all that's said an done with United.... Just for tonight I want Ronaldo to do something and prove me wrong.

He's triple Captain in my fantasy team and he let me down big time at the weekend..... I'd have thought utd have enough to get past saints and Brighton.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			After all that's said an done with United.... Just for tonight I want Ronaldo to do something and prove me wrong.

He's triple Captain in my fantasy team and he let me down big time at the weekend..... I'd have thought utd have enough to get past saints and Brighton.
		
Click to expand...

There’s a lot to be said about being a team.
Those two are teams UTD don’t look like a team just individual players struggling at times.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			All this talk about how bad UTD are but there still forth I think I saw on MOTD.
That dosnt say much for the rest of the prem.
		
Click to expand...

Your last statement says a lot. However, relative to the finances available at each club to build a side, Utd are much worse than fourth. In fact, if you compared league standing to club finances, I wouldn't be surprised if Utd were not even close to getting in the Premier League (top 20 English Clubs). League 1 or 2 perhaps


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2022)

😂 mental scenes


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## pokerjoke (Feb 15, 2022)

Just one of the reasons Man Utd need a new manager,someone who can make big decisions.
Maguire needs dropping pure and simple.
Pogba left out and back to the pairing of Fred and McTomminey the same under Ole.
Lingard again overlooked,for me baffling.
VDB gone so it’s just the same personal,probably produce the same results.
We need a manager who’s not afraid to drop poorly performing players or players with massive egos.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Benteke just the wrong player for the system - £32 mil wasted , would certainly be included if he lasted longer , same with Balotelli

Aquilani- that’s an injury flop , was never fit enough to play
		
Click to expand...

Wasn't Benteke more like £41m


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## SteveW86 (Feb 15, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wasn't Benteke more like £41m
		
Click to expand...

Google suggests £32.5m

£16 upfront with the rest spread out.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wasn't Benteke more like £41m
		
Click to expand...

On 22 July 2015, LPool completed the signing of Benteke on a "long-term contract" after meeting his release clause of £32.5 million.

The only place £41 million is mentioned is here, but not where they get that figure from.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jumplist/transfers/spieler/50201/transfer_id/1295463


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Google suggests £32.5m

£16 upfront with the rest spread out.
		
Click to expand...

I took it from here but happy to accept it was £32.5 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/christian-benteke/transfers/spieler/50201


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## SteveW86 (Feb 15, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I took it from here but happy to accept it was £32.5 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/christian-benteke/transfers/spieler/50201

Click to expand...

No idea, just looked at the first few links and they all said £32m


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## Hobbit (Feb 15, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Just one of the reasons Man Utd need a new manager,someone who can make big decisions.
Maguire needs dropping pure and simple.
Pogba left out and back to the pairing of Fred and McTomminey the same under Ole.
Lingard again overlooked,for me baffling.
VDB gone so it’s just the same personal,probably produce the same results.
We need a manager who’s not afraid to drop poorly performing players or players with massive egos.
		
Click to expand...

Quite like Paul Ince’s interpretation of Maguire, and what I’ve thought for a while. Maguire is horrendously exposed because the rest of the defence is rubbish, and his form has dipped because of it.

That aside, Fred is lazy and McT is slow. Lingard has developed chubby chops and needs to put some graft in. Rashford hasn’t got past his injury from last year, and I’m not sure he will.

If Utd want to compete with the big boys, Utd aren’t anymore, especially in Europe they’ve got radical rebuilding to do.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			No idea, just looked at the first few links and they all said £32m
		
Click to expand...

Yep it’s always been £32mil - that was his release clause

Played one season - great overhead kick against Utd , spent most of the time on the bench when Klopp arrived - then sold for £27mil rising to £32mil 😂


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## pokerjoke (Feb 15, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Quite like Paul Ince’s interpretation of Maguire, and what I’ve thought for a while. Maguire is horrendously exposed because the rest of the defence is rubbish, and his form has dipped because of it.

That aside, Fred is lazy and McT is slow. Lingard has developed chubby chops and needs to put some graft in. Rashford hasn’t got past his injury from last year, and I’m not sure he will.

If Utd want to compete with the big boys, Utd aren’t anymore, especially in Europe they’ve got radical rebuilding to do.
		
Click to expand...

Maguire has been poor for a while now
Turns like the QE2 and slower than you getting your wallet out,and that’s saying something 
Honestly can’t blame that on everyone else.
Paul ince thought he was the guvernor , no one else did.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

If you want to watch a video of the perfect half volley technique, watching City's second goal is a good shout. Splendid by Silva.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Glad United game not on. 20 mins in, at Utd have apparently had 30% possession, at Old Trafford.


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Glad United game not on. 20 mins in, at Utd have apparently had 30% possession, at Old Trafford.
		
Click to expand...

United have had 2 or 3 really decent chances in the last 15 minutes.
They're definitely growing into the game.


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2022)

this city side are pretty good when they want to be .......


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			this city side are pretty good when they want to be .......
		
Click to expand...

Don't think they have to worry that away goals aren't counting double under the new rules


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)

Fred ............................... just what is the point of Fred?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Fred ............................... just what is the point of Fred?
		
Click to expand...

What did he do? Or was that just a general comment?


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What did he do? Or was that just a general comment?
		
Click to expand...

He just can't pass to one of his own, I think he's colour blind.
He also had a great chance to set Ronaldo free, but couldn't find the simple pass.

Oh, it's also a general comment!


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)

Awesome save by DDG.


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## Hobbit (Feb 15, 2022)

De Gea earning his corn with a worldie


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## Billysboots (Feb 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Fred ............................... just what is the point of Fred?
		
Click to expand...

Every club needs a figure of fun.


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)

We have several.


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)




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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 15, 2022)

City are so good, it's outrageous.

Anyone else that just can't see them winning the CL though?!


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)




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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 41203

Click to expand...

Finally. Good goal, or poacher's classic?


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)

Has to be a red card.


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Finally. Good goal, or poacher's classic?
		
Click to expand...

A fabulous goal.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 15, 2022)

Junior said:



			Benteke, Aquilani, Ballotelli  combined come close ?  

Click to expand...

Ziege was one of mine.

An awesome defender and attacker at left back, was absolute crap for us.


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Has to be a red card.
		
Click to expand...

Yup, red card ................................ surely we can't cock this one up, can we?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Has to be a red card.
		
Click to expand...

I see Dunk was shown red


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## pokerjoke (Feb 15, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			After all that's said an done with United.... Just for tonight I want Ronaldo to do something and prove me wrong.

He's triple Captain in my fantasy team and he let me down big time at the weekend..... I'd have thought utd have enough to get past saints and Brighton.
		
Click to expand...

Think he’s proved you wrong


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2022)

Mbappe sooooo good


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)




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## Junior (Feb 15, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ziege was one of mine.

An awesome defender and attacker at left back, was absolute crap for us.
		
Click to expand...

A great example.  He was top draw for Germany and Bayern.   Didnt he go to Middlesborough after Liverpool ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2022)

Junior said:



			A great example.  He was top draw for Germany and Bayern.   Didnt he go to Middlesborough after Liverpool ?
		
Click to expand...

He went to Spurs , we got him from Boro


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2022)

The best 2nd half I've seen from United for some while.
They're still a frustrating watch but in the second half I saw signs of renewed confidence, especially from the front players.
McTominay had a solid game, Fred didn't!


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 15, 2022)

Junior said:



			A great example.  He was top draw for Germany and Bayern.   Didnt he go to Middlesborough after Liverpool ?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure if direct, but definitely went there.


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## Hobbit (Feb 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He went to Spurs , we got him from Boro
		
Click to expand...

He was excellent for Boro, then joined Liverpool. There was a £5m buy-out clause, which Liverpool triggered. Subsequently Liverpool were fined for tapping up Zeige whilst he was still contracted to Boro. Both Liverpool and the player were fined.


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## Dando (Feb 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			As a proud "telly clapper", I am disappointed the Man Utd v Brighton game is not on the TV tonight.

It was originally meant to be on BT Sport before it was postponed due to Covid. Apparently UEFA permitted clubs to rearrange fixtures on Champions League nights, so long as they were not broadcast. I wonder if BT Sport will get a bit of a refund, given that they paid quite a large fee for a specified number of Premier League games (I assume that is how it works)
		
Click to expand...

Get yourself a Firestick and an iptv subscription. For £60 a year you can watch every PL game


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## BrianM (Feb 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			The best 2nd half I've seen from United for some while.
They're still a frustrating watch but in the second half I saw signs of renewed confidence, especially from the front players.
McTominay had a solid game, Fred didn't!
		
Click to expand...

McTominay is pretty solid week in week out is he not?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 16, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Subsequently Liverpool were fined for tapping up Zeige whilst he was still contracted to Boro. Both Liverpool and the player were fined.
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure? I was under the impression that liverpool only did things the right way, the purest of the pure 🙄


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			The best 2nd half I've seen from United for some while.
They're still a frustrating watch but in the second half I saw signs of renewed confidence, especially from the front players.
McTominay had a solid game, Fred didn't!
		
Click to expand...

Didn't see it but were United made to look good after the red card? Can they do enough to squeeze a top 4?


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## Slime (Feb 16, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't see it but were United made to look good after the red card? Can they do enough to squeeze a top 4?
		
Click to expand...

No and I don't know.
There are many twists and turns to come!


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## Slime (Feb 16, 2022)

BrianM said:



			McTominay is pretty solid week in week out is he not?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, he's been doing a good job for quite a while. One of Utd's more consistent performers.


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## Hobbit (Feb 16, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't see it but were United made to look good after the red card? Can they do enough to squeeze a top 4?
		
Click to expand...

Pick any team down to 8th. West Ham are on a par with Utd in terms of goals for and against. Arsenal’s defence is better but goals for is shy. They do have 3 games in hand, maybe expect them to win 2. If Wolves ever sort their poor goal scoring record… and then there’s Spurs. Will Spurs come good to chase down 4th? Doubt it but they’re in the mix.

Think I’d pick Arsenal for 4th.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 16, 2022)

Dando said:



			Get yourself a Firestick and an iptv subscription. For £60 a year you can watch every PL game
		
Click to expand...

For my sins, I think I pay £150 a month for Sky and BT. I don't even get movies


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## Swango1980 (Feb 16, 2022)

BrianM said:



			McTominay is pretty solid week in week out is he not?
		
Click to expand...

He has been consistent, but his lack of pace is a weakness. He can also be sloppy with passing (not as bad as Fred), and still not great at being a key figure in dominating the midfield for an entire game.


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## Dando (Feb 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			For my sins, I think I pay £150 a month for Sky and BT. I don't even get movies 

Click to expand...

My sky bill was £130 a month. It’s now just £30 for the broadband.
With the iptv I’ve got something like 20,000 channels to pick from


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## Bdill93 (Feb 16, 2022)

Dando said:



			My sky bill was £130 a month. It’s now just £30 for the broadband.
With the iptv I’ve got something like 20,000 channels to pick from
		
Click to expand...

You paid £130 for sky?!

I have the complete package (no BT sport though) and internet with sky for £68


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			For my sins, I think I pay £150 a month for Sky and BT. I don't even get movies 

Click to expand...

You need to give them a ring. You really wont have to twist an arm to get that reduced.


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## Durango (Feb 16, 2022)

Great result for Stockport away at Bromley who have got (had) an excellent home record. Boreham Wood are still a massive threat though with their games in hand.


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## Dando (Feb 16, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You paid £130 for sky?!

I have the complete package (no BT sport though) and internet with sky for £68 

Click to expand...

i had 4 sky boxes and the full package inc landline


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## Bdill93 (Feb 16, 2022)

Dando said:



			i had 4 sky boxes and the full package inc landline
		
Click to expand...

Multi-room is free for me to be fair - we have some sort of VIP advantages these days.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 16, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Multi-room is free for me to be fair - we have some sort of VIP advantages these days.
		
Click to expand...

Well played. We have been with them for years, special customer blah blah and they still want to charge for multi room so don't have it. It would be good to have but not essential.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Well played. We have been with them for years, special customer blah blah and they still want to charge for multi room so don't have it. It would be good to have but not essential.
		
Click to expand...

You should qualify at least for the upgraded sky go? Do you have consoles you can run it through?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 16, 2022)

City v Gillingham playoff now on Sky. Oh the good ole days before oil money when we were everyone’s fave second team. 😁👍
That was a memorable day out at WEMBERLEE.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 16, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You should qualify at least for the upgraded sky go? *Do you have consoles you can run it through?*

Click to expand...

No I don't. I'd like it but not enough to really fight them over it. It's a shame that is what is needed but that is how Sky work. Maybe next renewal time we will get lucky and they will throw it in?


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			City v Gillingham playoff now on Sky. Oh the good ole days before oil money when we were everyone’s fave second team. 😁👍
That was a memorable day out at WEMBERLEE.
		
Click to expand...

Not for some of us...


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## Bdill93 (Feb 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No I don't. I'd like it but not enough to really fight them over it. It's a shame that is what is needed but that is how Sky work. Maybe next renewal time we will get lucky and they will throw it in?
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully! I really don't get SKY, anyone I ask always pays a different amount for differing services. They're a bit of a joke!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 16, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Not for some of us...
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂👍


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You need to give them a ring. You really wont have to twist an arm to get that reduced.
		
Click to expand...

I know, I'm just partly too lazy, and partly that they'll call my bluff and I'll have to go without Sky for a while until they offer me a deal to come back. I've simply had Sky for over 10 years, and the bill just gets steeper and steeper.

I only have a Sky+ Box, sports package, basic package, broadband, phone (I've never even had a home phone) and land line. I did upgrade to HD a few years back, but no multi room or Sky Q (whatever they all mean, I just hear these terms flouted about). BT is a joke as well, as I think that is £30 or £40 a month and I only have it for the footy. There is absolutely no other sport I am interested in on BT.

I've thought about getting dodgy box, but always worried about the internet connection causing issues. I also love being able to live pause and rewind on Sky. And, finally, even if I get the hardware for dodgy box, apparently I need to find some dodgy guy on facebook to set it up. Just seems dirty, although watching 3pm kick offs is a nice thought.


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Pick any team down to 8th. West Ham are on a par with Utd in terms of goals for and against. Arsenal’s defence is better but goals for is shy. They do have 3 games in hand, maybe expect them to win 2. If Wolves ever sort their poor goal scoring record… and then there’s Spurs. Will Spurs come good to chase down 4th? Doubt it but they’re in the mix.

Think I’d pick Arsenal for 4th.
		
Click to expand...


the rearranged games for Arsenal will be critical, Chelsea, Spurs and Wolves games!

that said our new 5-3-1 formation seems to be working..................


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			For my sins, I think I pay £150 a month for Sky and BT. I don't even get movies 

Click to expand...

Is this a special telly clapper rate? 

I pay £69 a month and get documentaries, sky sports and BT sports - not the Q box or multi room, and also land line and internet.

You need to play virgin and sky off against each other every 12-18 months, but £150 is sky high.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			City v Gillingham playoff now on Sky. Oh the good ole days before oil money when we were everyone’s fave second team. 😁👍
That was a memorable day out at WEMBERLEE.
		
Click to expand...

And City fan's second team was us, because we often stopped the red side winning trophies, wasn't it?

We regularly beat you 4-0 home and away, but that didn't seem to stop you.


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			City v Gillingham playoff now on Sky. Oh the good ole days before oil money when we were everyone’s fave second team. 😁👍
That was a memorable day out at WEMBERLEE.
		
Click to expand...

Paul Dickov - legend!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2022)

Great solid win tonight , tough team Inter and it was hard work , enjoyable game


----------



## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 17, 2022)

What a performance from Liverpool. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Wasnt pretty  at times but they went and matched Inter and eventually their quality shone through.

I remember when Italian football was the crown in european football jewel. Not no more. Over the last few seaaons we have seen  many English teams V's  italian teams. They're nothing but cheats.

Majority of Italian Football "fans" are thugs. I've seen at 1st hand Napoli fans in England. Their behaviour recently against my team was nothing short of abhorent.

I hope they all go out.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 17, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Great solid win tonight , tough team Inter and it was hard work , enjoyable game
		
Click to expand...

Thought we were a little sloppy with the final ball up front a few times and should have punished them.
But great performance all round.
VVD and Conate were brilliant.


----------



## Blakey (Feb 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I know, I'm just partly too lazy, and partly that they'll call my bluff and I'll have to go without Sky for a while until they offer me a deal to come back. I've simply had Sky for over 10 years, and the bill just gets steeper and steeper.

I only have a Sky+ Box, sports package, basic package, broadband, phone (I've never even had a home phone) and land line. I did upgrade to HD a few years back, but no multi room or Sky Q (whatever they all mean, I just hear these terms flouted about). BT is a joke as well, as I think that is £30 or £40 a month and I only have it for the footy. There is absolutely no other sport I am interested in on BT.

I've thought about getting dodgy box, but always worried about the internet connection causing issues. I also love being able to live pause and rewind on Sky. And, finally, even if I get the hardware for dodgy box, apparently I need to find some dodgy guy on facebook to set it up. Just seems dirty, although watching 3pm kick offs is a nice thought.
		
Click to expand...

They really won't call your bluff, and even if they did you have to give a months notice so the day before its due to be cut off you can call and say you have changed your mind.

i have this dance with them every year. in the notice period i get nurmerous letters, emails and phone calls with various offers. Currently paying around £100pm for full SkyQ UHD including sports (not BT), movies etc , 2 extra multiroom boxes, phone line and fibre broadband.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2022)

Rangers giving Dortmund a proper smashing at the moment


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			What a performance from Liverpool. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Wasnt pretty  at times but they went and matched Inter and eventually their quality shone through.

I remember when Italian football was the crown in european football jewel. Not no more. Over the last few seaaons we have seen  many English teams V's  italian teams. They're nothing but cheats.

Majority of Italian Football "fans" are thugs. I've seen at 1st hand Napoli fans in England. Their behaviour recently against my team was nothing short of abhorent.

I hope they all go out.
		
Click to expand...

When the mighty Fulham beat Juventus in the last 16 of the Europa Cup 4-1 at home it got a bit lively with their fans around Hammersmith. Police actually did a very good job that night.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 17, 2022)

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/man-city-plane-landing-footage-26256877


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## 4LEX (Feb 18, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Pick any team down to 8th. West Ham are on a par with Utd in terms of goals for and against. Arsenal’s defence is better but goals for is shy. They do have 3 games in hand, maybe expect them to win 2. If Wolves ever sort their poor goal scoring record… and then there’s Spurs. Will Spurs come good to chase down 4th? Doubt it but they’re in the mix.

Think I’d pick Arsenal for 4th.
		
Click to expand...

West Ham aren't that level and will tail off, Spurs have already bottled it IMO and Arsenal aren't good enough to do it. For all Utd's faults and they've been a shambles in many games, they'll get fourth due to the sheer quality in the squad. 

1.City
2 Liverpool
3 Chelsea
4 Utd
5 Arsenal
6 Spurs
7 West Ham


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## DanFST (Feb 19, 2022)

I’m not sure what the rules are in football anymore. 

How is that a card for fornals?


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## Jensen (Feb 19, 2022)

Great result for The Toon at an in form West Ham.
Toon, Toon Black n White Army

In form Spurs look favourites away to Man City 🤣


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## pauljames87 (Feb 19, 2022)

DanFST said:



			I’m not sure what the rules are in football anymore.

How is that a card for fornals?
		
Click to expand...

Today sums up the problem with Antonio. He's rubbish. So footballing thick it's unreal

His purple patch is long over , if we going to push Bowen up top then I'd rather drop him and play vlasic and Benny. Least they have a trick

It was reported Antonio got big for his boots when England called him up and rumoured to be same again now the reggae boys have capped him.

Every game goes by I regret Haller being sold. He may not have Antonio's "work rate" (which has gone) but he knew where the goal was ..

Dawson looks better up top than Antonio ATM. Tempted to play him there.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 19, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Great result for The Toon at an in form West Ham.
Toon, Toon Black n White Army

In form Spurs look favourites away to Man City 🤣
		
Click to expand...

To be fair we are very much out of form, I thought we were second best throughout and if you had tripper and Saint max you would have walked it


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## Beezerk (Feb 19, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Great result for The Toon at an in form West Ham.
Toon, Toon Black n White Army

In form Spurs look favourites away to Man City 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Mate, I’m jumping right on this Newcastle band wagon, I’ve been Googling half and half Sheff Wed/Newcastle shirts 🤣


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

we all had Burnley down as the only side to score in the first half of the 6 3pm games i assume lol


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## Jensen (Feb 19, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Mate, I’m jumping right on this Newcastle band wagon, I’ve been Googling half and half Sheff Wed/Newcastle shirts 🤣
		
Click to expand...

See if you can get me one half Spurs and Toon 🤣🤣


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

Jensen said:



			See if you can get me one half Spurs and Toon 🤣🤣
		
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you mean spoon?


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			we all had Burnley down as the only side to score in the first half of the 6 3pm games i assume lol
		
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The only game I predicted to finish 0-0 in the Prem Prediction thread was the only game that wasn't 0-0 at half time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2022)

Will be flying off the shelves


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## Piece (Feb 19, 2022)

Can we play Villa every week? 😆😉


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## Jimaroid (Feb 19, 2022)

Didn’t watch it. Can’t comment. 😭


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## Pathetic Shark (Feb 19, 2022)




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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495096951464939527
Dawson complained to the ref that Wood was saying “meow” to Zouma 😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2022)

Come on Spurs 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

some audition this from Kane


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 19, 2022)

come on plucky little Tottenham!

Could be one of the biggest upsets in recent Prem history on the cards here!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2022)

Was always going to happen

7 mins of injury time 🤷‍♂️
😂😂

Kane scoring big goals at City after all


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

Carra shot his load in the comms box lol

good for the title race if it ends this way at least


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## Jensen (Feb 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			some audition this from Kane
		
Click to expand...

So Spursey….🤔


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

fair play to Spurs cracking performance especially after the last few results, you wont see many better striker performances than that from Kane tonight


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2022)

Well done Spurs 😂




Post match from Pep should be fun 😂😂


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## pokerjoke (Feb 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			Carra shot his load in the comms box lol

good for the title race if it ends this way at least
		
Click to expand...

Yes he has
Lol only playing for runners up


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## Beezerk (Feb 19, 2022)

Wow some game that.


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## Piece (Feb 19, 2022)

That Donkey isn't bad at all 😆


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

Jensen said:



			So Spursey….🤔
		
Click to expand...


enjoy  the other variety is just round the corner


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## davemc1 (Feb 19, 2022)

COYS


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 19, 2022)

Slippy not got off to the best start at Villa I see.
1 win in last 6 😬


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

*The xG Philosophy* @xGPhilosophy
now
Man City (2.58) 2-2 (1.22) Harry Kane


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2022)

Cracking game for the neutral and spurs fans. They took there chances City didn’t.


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Cracking game for the neutral and spurs fans. They took there chances City didn’t.
		
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sometimes you just have to accept the other team have the one player you crave eh Tashy 

in fairness Kane pretty much the only player whos caused Citys defense anything like that sort of problems


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## IanM (Feb 19, 2022)

Interesting game😁


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			sometimes you just have to accept the other team have the one player you crave eh Tashy 

in fairness Kane pretty much the only player whos caused Citys defense anything like that sort of problems
		
Click to expand...

Not sure we have room for him 😳😂😂😂


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not sure we have room for him 😳😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...


could always play him at left back


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			could always play him at left back 

Click to expand...

I think we’re short in midfield. 😁


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think we’re short in midfield. 😁
		
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can send Xhaka your way if you need that sort of reinforcement


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			can send Xhaka your way if you need that sort of reinforcement 

Click to expand...

Sweet god. I said short not desperate 😳


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Sweet god. I said short not desperate 😳
		
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hed fit it great, plays the tippy tappy stuff, more than happy to take his turn with the cynical fouling........


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			hed fit it great, plays the tippy tappy stuff, more than happy to take his turn with the cynical fouling........
		
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We have to many of them tippy foulers already 😉


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## fundy (Feb 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			We have to many of them tippy foulers already 😉
		
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talk me through how Rodri doesnt get booked again today..................


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			talk me through how Rodri doesnt get booked again today..................
		
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I was more interested in the Spurs player that went down with the massive head injury who managed to raise his arm in the air to alert the ref before he drifted into a coma. 😁


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## Baldy Bouncer (Feb 19, 2022)

Lots of empty seats again at Citeh tonight.....what were they doing that was better than going to a home game on a Saturday evening?


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## davemc1 (Feb 19, 2022)

Genuine question. Do City always play that high and narrow? 

Shocked me how many times spurs got in behind


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			Genuine question. Do City always play that high and narrow?

Shocked me how many times spurs got in behind
		
Click to expand...

They do, most of the season but they have no choice, teams sit so far back it’s unreal.The main difference in Spurs is Kane. You could marvel all day about his finishing but as an outlet he was fantastic.He holds the ball up really well and gets his team involved. A lot of teams are as organised as spurs but do not have that outlet.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2022)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			Lots of empty seats again at Citeh tonight.....what were they doing that was better than going to a home game on a Saturday evening?
		
Click to expand...

Babysitting😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2022)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			Lots of empty seats again at Citeh tonight.....what were they doing that was better than going to a home game on a Saturday evening?
		
Click to expand...

Lots of flights from Dubai cancelled due to the storm


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 19, 2022)

Cracking game for the neutral and Kane played as well as I've seen him this season. Does make the title race that bit more interesting


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## richart (Feb 19, 2022)

Paul Ince. 😬 Can we have Pauno back ?


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## Swango1980 (Feb 20, 2022)

Lukaku had 7 touches in entire match yesterday. 1 in 1st half other than kick off.

Crazy


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Lukaku had 7 touches in entire match yesterday. 1 in 1st half other than kick off.

Crazy
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495084260922953736


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## putterman60 (Feb 20, 2022)

Ok on my journey around the forum i called in at the NFL now onto the other football !!!! Or proper
My team or teams ......or whoever is winning lol

no seriously (or not)
Everton  (Mothers family from Liverpool)

Super Stags  (local)

and i have known to venture down to the Banks of the Trent occasionally  (Local)

i just like footy , interesting times watching Man Utd/ Villa /Spurs

need a Man Utd win today and hopefully the later match today will be a goal fest and a credit to the Premiership !!!!!

oh and IMHO
Bring back the old 3rd Div North and South (and even a Midlands Division too) cut down on travel


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## Jensen (Feb 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Lukaku had 7 touches in entire match yesterday. 1 in 1st half other than kick off.

Crazy
		
Click to expand...

He certainly influenced the game then…


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			Ok on my journey around the forum i called in at the NFL now onto the other football !!!! Or proper
My team or teams ......or whoever is winning lol

no seriously (or not)
Everton  (Mothers family from Liverpool)

*Super Stags  (local)*

and i have known to venture down to the Banks of the Trent occasionally  (Local)

i just like footy , interesting times watching Man Utd/ Villa /Spurs

need a Man Utd win today and hopefully the later match today will be a goal fest and a credit to the Premiership !!!!!

oh and IMHO
Bring back the old 3rd Div North and South (and even a Midlands Division too) cut down on travel
		
Click to expand...

Yyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllloooooooowwwwwwwwwwwsssssssss

Two of us from Mansfield were taking over 😳😁😉👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495335005907824640
This is shocking that people think they can attack players in this way - his Mum doesn’t take any 💩


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## Fade and Die (Feb 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495335005907824640
This is shocking that people think they can attack players in this way - his Mum doesn’t take any 💩
		
Click to expand...

Looks like his Mother started it all. Silly woman.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Looks like his Mother started it all. Silly woman.
		
Click to expand...

No idea what was said for her to react the way she did. 

Seems it’s kicked off between Man Utd fans and Leeds 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495383077547397127


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## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 20, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Looks like his Mother started it all. Silly woman.
		
Click to expand...

How embarrassing is that, going clubbing with your mam 🤣🤣🤣


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## SteveW86 (Feb 20, 2022)

Who goes clubbing with their mum


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## AmandaJR (Feb 20, 2022)

He wasn't at a night club but the boxing in Manchester.


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## yandabrown (Feb 20, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			He wasn't at a night club but the boxing in Manchester.
		
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I didn't realise that it was a participation event


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Looks like his Mother started it all. Silly woman.
		
Click to expand...

They were followed by three lads and abused. Calling Foden see you next Tuesday. At that point his mum came out and they continued.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			I didn't realise that it was a participation event 

Click to expand...

At least she put up a fight unlike Khan. 😂


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## Stuart_C (Feb 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No idea what was said for her to react the way she did.

Seems it’s kicked off between Man Utd fans and Leeds


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495383077547397127

Click to expand...

Yernited hardcases hiding behind Her Majestys Finest once again. 

Old habits die hard.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 20, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Looks like his Mother started it all. Silly woman.
		
Click to expand...

How many times have you seen women starting trouble and husband's/fellas end up fighting?

Close the door and enjoy your night. Fighting any and everyone who dares to say anything untoward is a dangerous path to go down.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495335005907824640
This is shocking that people think they can attack players in this way - his Mum doesn’t take any 💩
		
Click to expand...

Cant condone the fighting nor the woman being hit but she cant be proud of that. 

Ignore the haters and crack on.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Feb 20, 2022)

You can take the woman out of Stockport......


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2022)

McTominay  has absolutely put one on the Leeds lad there 😳. Not even a card.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			McTominay  has absolutely put one on the Leeds lad there 😳. Not even a card.
		
Click to expand...

Don't often get cards for an accidental collision. Might do if he is persistent though.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Don't often get cards for an accidental collision. Might do if he is persistent though.
		
Click to expand...

You think that was entirely accidental? I don't think he meant it to be so severe but I absolutely think he meant to catch the lad to let him know he was there.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You think that was entirely accidental? I don't think he meant it to be so severe but I absolutely think he meant to catch the lad to let him know he was there.
		
Click to expand...

It was a collision we see multiple times per half, I didn't even think anything off it until I saw loads of blood. It was just a bit of a freak that the impact occured where it did.

My biggest concern is Wan Bissaka at the moment. Ball running down the right side, perfect to put in a cross first time, Ronaldo in the middle (decent target man), and Wan Bissaka pulls it back to then pass to guy behind him. He wasn't confident in playing a 1st time ball with his right foot. He is right footed.


----------



## Piece (Feb 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495335005907824640
This is shocking that people think they can attack players in this way - his Mum doesn’t take any 💩
		
Click to expand...

Jack Reacher, Manchester edition....😆


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## BiMGuy (Feb 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Don't often get cards for an accidental collision. Might do if he is persistent though.
		
Click to expand...

Accidental? 😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 20, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Accidental? 😂
		
Click to expand...

Exact same challenge, but contact was on a slightly different area, thus not cutting the Leeds player, it is an instantly forgettable moment. 

No doubt he went in robustly, just as any footballer would.


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## rudebhoy (Feb 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			They were followed by three lads and abused. Calling Foden see you next Tuesday. At that point his mum came out and they continued.
		
Click to expand...

What about the guy swinging the fire extinguisher? Missed the back of some blokes head by about an inch. Could have killed him if it made contact. Disgusting stuff.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			What about the guy swinging the fire extinguisher? Missed the back of some blokes head by about an inch. Could have killed him if it made contact. Disgusting stuff.
		
Click to expand...

Not saying it wasn’t, but by my reckoning The lads that started it backed off as soon as it got real serious. What I cannot get my head around was, “where was security”. There not £20 seats there in. What was even more disgusting is it was staged. Ironic that a camera was out watching the lot. They went with the intentions of it kicking off and filming it.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			They were followed by three lads and abused. Calling Foden see you next Tuesday. At that point his mum came out and they continued.
		
Click to expand...

Not being funny he’s a 21 year old Millionaire, he will get called that every week. His old mum should realise that and pipe down. He doesn’t need to be splashed all over the tabloids because of her actions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not saying it wasn’t, but by my reckoning The lads that started it backed off as soon as it got real serious. What I cannot get my head around was, “where was security”. There not £20 seats there in. What was even more disgusting is it was staged. Ironic that a camera was out watching the lot. They went with the intentions of it kicking off and filming it.
		
Click to expand...

Foden and his mother could have just closed the door and let the site security deal with it


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Not being funny he’s a 21 year old Millionaire, he will get called that every week. His old mum should realise that and pipe down. He doesn’t need to be splashed all over the tabloids because of her actions.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe it’s called maternal instinct. Maybe when the mums of the planks that started it see it they may well give there kids a slapping as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2022)

What an interesting time to turn on the football 😂 two goals in a minute


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 20, 2022)

Wow 😮


----------



## IanM (Feb 20, 2022)

Missed the first half at Elland Road as having lunch.. turned on for the second half and it appears to be 1975!

Great stuff!


----------



## Slime (Feb 20, 2022)

Another poor cross by Fred !!


----------



## Slime (Feb 20, 2022)

Oh,





I've only just turned it on .............................. have I missed owt?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2022)

Coins being thrown at the Manc players - ale house thug behaviour from the Leeds fans


----------



## Slime (Feb 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Coins being thrown at the Manc players - ale house thug behaviour from the Leeds fans
		
Click to expand...

To be expected, but we all have them.
I just wish they were all identified and then executed!


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## putterman60 (Feb 20, 2022)

Slime said:



			To be expected, but we all have them.
_*I just wish they were all identified and then executed!*_

Click to expand...



Now thats a darn good idea


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## fundy (Feb 20, 2022)

how is Mctominay still on the pitch???


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 20, 2022)

"It was clumsy by Maguire."

When is it ever anything else?


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## Billysboots (Feb 20, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			"It was clumsy by Maguire."

When is it ever anything else?
		
Click to expand...

He makes me look cultured. And I was a cart horse, even at my dubious best.


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## putterman60 (Feb 20, 2022)

Opinions............
How much longer will Ronaldo be at United for and where will he go?


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## Slime (Feb 20, 2022)




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## Billysboots (Feb 20, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			Opinions............
How much longer will Ronaldo be at United for and where will he go?
		
Click to expand...

He’ll be gone in the summer. Where? I suppose the only remaining challenge for him is PSG.


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## fundy (Feb 20, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			Opinions............
How much longer will Ronaldo be at United for and where will he go?
		
Click to expand...

America in the summer


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## Slime (Feb 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			how is Mctominay still on the pitch???
		
Click to expand...

Because he's not been substituted yet.
You're welcome.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			Opinions............
How much longer will Ronaldo be at United for and where will he go?
		
Click to expand...

Not much longer, the summer.

MLS I reckon. I don't see a European team going in for him and the pace, lifestyle and sponsorship deals over there might suit.


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## fundy (Feb 20, 2022)

Slime said:



			Because he's not been substituted yet.
You're welcome. 

Click to expand...


lol, yesthat or Tierneys awful, its one or the other. Tbh surprised Rangnick hasnt hooked him too


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol, yesthat or Tierneys awful, its one or the other. Tbh *surprised Rangnick hasnt hooked him too*

Click to expand...

Why hook him if Tierney is giving him free rein?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			America in the summer
		
Click to expand...

Yep - MLS at Inter Miami 



fundy said:



			lol, yesthat or Tierneys awful, its one or the other. Tbh surprised Rangnick hasnt hooked him too
		
Click to expand...

I have no idea how it’s ended up 11 vs 11

Neville attempting to justify some of the tackles , especially by McTomminey - it’s mystery how he didn’t get a second yellow , both for tackles , reactions and mouthing off


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## fundy (Feb 20, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Why hook him if Tierney is giving him free rein?
		
Click to expand...


hed have been sent off twice if playing for us like that!!!!


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## putterman60 (Feb 20, 2022)

Hope the next match has even more goals


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## fundy (Feb 20, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			Hope the next match has even more goals

Click to expand...


you do know wolves are playing in it?


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## pokerjoke (Feb 20, 2022)

Closing the gap on City 
Fred actually did well when he came on,his movement for his goal was Foden esk.
I said it months ago Bielsa is neive,too open for the premiership.
Someone who’s been touted as a great manager I’m surprised he hasn’t learnt yet.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep - MLS at Inter Miami



I have no idea how it’s ended up 11 vs 11

*Neville attempting to justify some of the tackles* , especially by McTomminey - it’s mystery how he didn’t get a second yellow , both for tackles , reactions and mouthing off
		
Click to expand...

Some of his comments are embarrassing, which is a shame as I used to enjoy listening to him.


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## AliMc (Feb 20, 2022)

Just caught the first half of Wolves/Leicester on the radio in the car on the way back from the golf, genuine question here - how the hell does Clinton Morrison get a gig as a pundit, one nugget - Leicester have been the better team this 2nd half, Wolves will be wanting half time to come round quickly 😀


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## Stuart_C (Feb 20, 2022)

AliMc said:



			Just caught the first half of Wolves/Leicester on the radio in the car on the way back from the golf, genuine question here - how the hell does Clinton Morrison get a gig as a pundit, one nugget - Leicester have been the better team this 2nd half, Wolves will be wanting half time to come round quickly 😀
		
Click to expand...

It's not for his highly informative analysis thats for sure. He's almost as bad as Merson.


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## 2blue (Feb 20, 2022)

Hahaha......  hard to believe that so many folk are having difficulties understanding how a football game at Leeds has turned a bit 'naughty' & there are still 22 on the pitch. It's been like that for years & years......   you want to try a Sat in the city here.....  well maybe not!!


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## Bamberdele21 (Feb 20, 2022)

Phil Fodens mum has granite chin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495335005907824640


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 20, 2022)

Bamberdele21 said:



			Phil Fodens mum has granite chin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495335005907824640

Click to expand...

Same granite chin she had in post #23,255?


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## Bamberdele21 (Feb 20, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Same granite chin she had in post #23,255?
		
Click to expand...

Should be a separate thread on this but I’m sure the moderators would disapprove.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2022)

Bamberdele21 said:



			Should be a separate thread on this but I’m sure the moderators would disapprove.
		
Click to expand...

Could well be but am sure Foden was targeted because he’s a footballer. Not just that but we have discussed other unsavoury events where footballers have been involved. Unfortunately there’s a few more looming on the horizon ☹️


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## fundy (Feb 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Could well be but am sure Foden was targeted because he’s a footballer. Not just that but we have discussed other unsavoury events where footballers have been involved. Unfortunately there’s a few more looming on the horizon ☹️
		
Click to expand...


more vidoes tashy or more events like this?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 20, 2022)

Ronaldho to go if United don't get top 4 https://www.skysports.com/football/...if-they-fail-to-finish-in-top-four-paper-talk

Playing like today though they'll get there easily. I still think a top European side will give him a short term contract


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			more vidoes tashy or more events like this?
		
Click to expand...

Mendy and Greenwood spring to mind 😡


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## Papas1982 (Feb 20, 2022)

With Lewangoalski off, potentially Bayern, but doubt they’d pay him. 

Or PSG if Messi hops back to Barca.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 20, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			With Lewangoalski off, potentially Bayern, but doubt they’d pay him.

Or PSG if Messi hops back to Barca.
		
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Is Lewandowski off officially or still rumours? I'd love to see him in the PL and think he'd be devastating at City or Liverpool but don't Liverpool have an abundance of riches already


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## fundy (Feb 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Mendy and Greenwood spring to mind 😡
		
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theyre far different to this situation


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## Leftitshort (Feb 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			theyre far different to this situation
		
Click to expand...

I’m struggling to see the link? Maybe tashy could explain?


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## IainP (Feb 20, 2022)

*Aubameyang*


fundy said:



			now talking about it being a free tfr

cant wait to see him start scoring goals for fun again for someone else 

Click to expand...


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			I’m struggling to see the link? Maybe tashy could explain?
		
Click to expand...

its a football thread, there footballers.

PS I didn’t post the links just commented on them 👍


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## Stuart_C (Feb 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			its a football thread, there footballers.

PS I didn’t post the links just commented on them 👍
		
Click to expand...

Tashyboy in post not making any sense shocker 🤣🤣


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Tashyboy in post not making any sense shocker 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

You would have to go back a few pages Stu to see conversation 😉
Basically someone said the Foden incident should not be on a football thread. I said it should.
Just seen. You have gone back a few pages 😁😁👍


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## Swango1980 (Feb 21, 2022)

USA Ladies beat New Zealand Ladies 5-0.

USA were 3-0 up after 36 minutes. All 3 goals were scored by New Zealand centre back Moore. Not only a hat-tick of own goals, but a perfect hat trick, scored with the right foot, left foot and the head.

She was subbed in the 40th minute, after which the USA scoring rate declined.


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## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			USA Ladies beat New Zealand Ladies 5-0.

USA were 3-0 up after 36 minutes. All 3 goals were scored by New Zealand centre back Moore. Not only a hat-tick of own goals, but a perfect hat trick, scored with the right foot, left foot and the head.

*She was subbed in the 40th minute*, after which the USA scoring rate declined.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair I'd have asked to come off if it was me. Straight to the bar - mine's a large one. Tough day at the office.


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## Bamberdele21 (Feb 21, 2022)

Can’t say I’ve ever witnessed anything within the game myself over the years. Her face after the 3rd own goal.

Meikayla Moore.

never forget that name


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2022)

Bamberdele21 said:



			Can’t say I’ve ever witnessed anything within the game myself over the years. Her face after the 3rd own goal.

*Meikayla Moore.*

never forget that name
		
Click to expand...

🤔 female Harry Maguire 😁


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## Beezerk (Feb 21, 2022)

Bamberdele21 said:



			Can’t say I’ve ever witnessed anything within the game myself over the years. Her face after the 3rd own goal.

Meikayla Moore.

never forget that name
		
Click to expand...

Just seen the goals, wow bad luck 😂
It’s not even like she can forget her last bad shot like a golfer would 🙈😂


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## Swango1980 (Feb 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			🤔 female Harry Maguire 😁
		
Click to expand...

Except she plays for Liverpool


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## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Just seen the goals, wow bad luck 😂
It’s not even like she can forget her last bad shot like a golfer would 🙈😂
		
Click to expand...

Two of them were bad luck at a push but the left foot one was awful. Not surprised she was hooked after that. 

Amazingly, she plays for Liverpool, so this is top flight defending we're seeing here, not some minnow. And I normally defend women's football if anything. 😬


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## Bamberdele21 (Feb 21, 2022)

Yeah she’s an elite female defender. Which makes it even more better.


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## Neilds (Feb 22, 2022)

Lukaku only touching the ball 7 times in the match at the weekend - and 1 of them was the kick off!
Not sure what is going on his head but obviously not enjoying his football at the moment.


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## Dando (Feb 22, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Lukaku only touching the ball 7 times in the match at the weekend - and 1 of them was the kick off!
Not sure what is going on his head but obviously not enjoying his football at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

£90m well spent


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## Neilds (Feb 22, 2022)

Dando said:



			£90m well spent
		
Click to expand...

£97.5 million!!!!!  Would want him to cut the pitch and do the half time entertainment for that - after baking all the pies for the fans!


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## Stuart_C (Feb 22, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Lukaku only touching the ball 7 times in the match at the weekend - and 1 of them was the kick off!
Not sure what is going on his head but obviously not enjoying his football at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Statistics can make it look worse than his performance actually was. I've always said Lukaku is a flat track bully and ive seen nothing in the PL to convince me otherwise. You couldnt rely on him to win you a title like you could Origi😉

Yes he'll score goals but he doesnt do enough off the ball if he's not scoring goals. He was often a ghost  for Everton and Yernited. Maybe Italian football suits him.

Another expensive mistake that Chelsea have made.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Statistics can make it look worse than his performance actually was. I've always said Lukaku is a flat track bully and ive seen nothing in the PL to convince me otherwise. You couldnt rely on him to win you a title like you could Origi😉

Yes he'll score goals but he doesnt do enough off the ball if he's not scoring goals. He was often a ghost  for Everton and Yernited. Maybe Italian football suits him.

Another expensive mistake that Chelsea have made.
		
Click to expand...

If he came to west ham he would be the perfect fit for us. Antonio isnt a striker and finally is showing it. Maybe we will finally drop him.

Lukaku for me is the one I always though yes he would be the best fit for us 

Shame to see him wasted for Chelsea 

Maybe a warning to rice..don't return to a place just to prove a point .. go somewhere that suits you...


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## Stuart_C (Feb 22, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			If he came to west ham he would be the perfect fit for us. Antonio isnt a striker and finally is showing it. Maybe we will finally drop him.

Lukaku for me is the one I always though yes he would be the best fit for us

Shame to see him wasted for Chelsea

Maybe a warning to rice..don't return to a place just to prove a point .. go somewhere that suits you...
		
Click to expand...

Again i'm not sure he'd fit at West ham unless they changed. Lukaku needs service and balls in front of him, not sure sure laying off with his back to goal is his forte. I could be wrong like.

If he's not scoring goals he's generally  anonymous from the games i've seen him play. Him and Benteke are very similar in terms of what they offer.

It's not a shame he's wasted at Chelsea, i find it hilarious😁


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## fundy (Feb 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Again i'm not sure he'd fit at West ham unless they changed. Lukaku needs service and balls in front of him, not sure sure laying off with his back to goal is his forte. I could be wrong like.

If he's not scoring goals he's generally  anonymous from the games i've seen him play. Him and Benteke are very similar in terms of what they offer.

It's not a shame he's wasted at Chelsea, i find it hilarious😁
		
Click to expand...


you see any of him in italy last year Stu? think you do him a bit of a disservice personally, especilly with the Benteke comparison

current situation more about what he said off the pitch isnt it?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Again i'm not sure he'd fit at West ham unless they changed. Lukaku needs service and balls in front of him, not sure sure laying off with his back to goal is his forte. I could be wrong like.

If he's not scoring goals he's generally  anonymous from the games i've seen him play. Him and Benteke are very similar in terms of what they offer.

It's not a shame he's wasted at Chelsea, i find it hilarious😁
		
Click to expand...

To be fair if he not scoring goals Antonio is completely anonymous...

At least with Lukaku you know he has technic when striking the ball 

I think he would work well with Bowen supporting him


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## Stuart_C (Feb 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			you see any of him in italy last year Stu? think you do him a bit of a disservice personally, especilly with the Benteke comparison

current situation more about what he said off the pitch isnt it?
		
Click to expand...

Only bits to be honest, i've based my opinion from what i've seen from him  in the PL over the years. Like i said maybe he's more suited to Italian football. 

Comparison with Benteke wasnt a direct ability v ability, he's a better player than Benteke. I just think they're both similar in what they offer off the ball if their not scoring goals.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 22, 2022)

Feed him and he will score. With Lukaku you need to set the team up accordingly, he doesn't just fit in. Yes, that is a weakness but you know before you buy so either set up to suit him or don't buy him.


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## fundy (Feb 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Only bits to be honest, i've based my opinion from what i've seen from him  in the PL over the years. Like i said maybe he's more suited to Italian football.

Comparison with Benteke wasnt a direct ability v ability, he's a better player than Benteke. I just think they're both similar in what they offer off the ball if their not scoring goals.
		
Click to expand...


was a far more rounded footballer in italy last year, had an assist every 3 games as well as the goals he scored, looks like chelsea bought the earlier model though for sure


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## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Again i'm not sure he'd fit at West ham unless they changed. Lukaku needs service and balls in front of him, not sure sure laying off with his back to goal is his forte. I could be wrong like.

If he's not scoring goals he's generally  anonymous from the games i've seen him play. Him and Benteke are very similar in terms of what they offer.

It's not a shame he's wasted at Chelsea, i find it hilarious😁
		
Click to expand...

He was really bad with his back to goal when he was at United. I was surprised, as I expected him to be ace due to his physical strength and size. I didn't watch him in Italy, but I think it was generally accepted he improved in this area. But then, how has he been at Chelsea with his back to goal? How was he at Everton?

It is sometimes hard to read much into a way a person plays in one league, and guess how they'll do in another.


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## GB72 (Feb 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He was really bad with his back to goal when he was at United. I was surprised, as I expected him to be ace due to his physical strength and size. I didn't watch him in Italy, but I think it was generally accepted he improved in this area. But then, how has he been at Chelsea with his back to goal? How was he at Everton?

It is sometimes hard to read much into a way a person plays in one league, and guess how they'll do in another.
		
Click to expand...

I think it goes further than just the league. Usual caveat applies as to my limited football knowledge. I always get the feeling that with strikers, they strike gold once, they find a team and set up where everything just works and they slot goals in for fun. Not sure that there are a massive number of examples where strikers move on from having  a few world class seasons and one club then go on to repeat that elsewhere. It works both ways with strikers who have had relatively ordinary careers find their perfect set up and suddenly they are up there with the best. More than expecting a list of examples from the more knowledgeable people on here shooting that theory down.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Feed him and he will score. With Lukaku you need to set the team up accordingly, he doesn't just fit in. Yes, that is a weakness but you know before you buy so either set up to suit him or don't buy him.
		
Click to expand...

See Chelsea have a revolving manager policy so the next manager probably purchased him


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## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I think it goes further than just the league. Usual caveat applies as to my limited football knowledge. I always get the feeling that with strikers, they strike gold once, they find a team and set up where everything just works and they slot goals in for fun. Not sure that there are a massive number of examples where strikers move on from having  a few world class seasons and one club then go on to repeat that elsewhere. It works both ways with strikers who have had relatively ordinary careers find their perfect set up and suddenly they are up there with the best. More than expecting a list of examples from the more knowledgeable people on here shooting that theory down.
		
Click to expand...

Examples, this might be a fun game. Ronaldo (Man Utd, Real Madrid, Juventus). Suarez (Ajax, Liverpool, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid). Ibrahimovic (Inter, Milan, PSG). Shearer (Blackburn, Newcastle)

True, I also get the fact there are plenty of examples of a striker who plays well at one club, and then struggles to reach those heights when they move on as well. Chelsea will desperately be hoping that Lukaku has got the ability to be a success (like the players I mentioned, although even Ibrahimovic didn't have the best of times at Barcelona), rather than being a hot and cold striker depending on the club he is at and how he fits in.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Examples, this might be a fun game. Ronaldo (Man Utd, Real Madrid, Juventus). Suarez (Ajax, Liverpool, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid). Ibrahimovic (Inter, Milan, PSG). Shearer (Blackburn, Newcastle)

True, I also get the fact there are plenty of examples of a striker who plays well at one club, and then struggles to reach those heights when they move on as well. Chelsea will desperately be hoping that Lukaku has got the ability to be a success (like the players I mentioned, although even Ibrahimovic didn't have the best of times at Barcelona), rather than being a hot and cold striker depending on the club he is at and how he fits in.
		
Click to expand...

In those examples do the teams not adapt and build around those players? Not every time but more often than not. They would be daft not to, goals win games.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In those examples do the teams not adapt and build around those players? Not every time but more often than not. They would be daft not to, goals win games.
		
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I think any team, when they buy a big player, need to adapt somehow to get the best out of them. Otherwise why buy them? That doesn't mean the team fully changes just to benefit one player. I'm pretty sure Barcelona did not fully focus to adapt to Suarez.

If Chelsea were willing to spend so much on Lukaku, you'd think they either thought he would fit in well with their existing style, or they could tweak somehow (as could he) to provide the perfect fit. Same goes to United when they bought him from Everton. Maybe they got it wrong, or they need more time to sort it out.


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## GB72 (Feb 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think any team, when they buy a big player, need to adapt somehow to get the best out of them. Otherwise why buy them? That doesn't mean the team fully changes just to benefit one player. I'm pretty sure Barcelona did not fully focus to adapt to Suarez.

If Chelsea were willing to spend so much on Lukaku, you'd think they either thought he would fit in well with their existing style, or they could tweak somehow (as could he) to provide the perfect fit. Same goes to United when they bought him from Everton. Maybe they got it wrong, or they need more time to sort it out.
		
Click to expand...

I guess then you have the problem if you have too many big names that they all start thinking that the tactics and formations should be such that it gets the most out of their game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think any team, when they buy a big player, need to adapt somehow to get the best out of them. Otherwise why buy them? That doesn't mean the team fully changes just to benefit one player. I'm pretty sure Barcelona did not fully focus to adapt to Suarez.

If Chelsea were willing to spend so much on Lukaku, you'd think they either thought he would fit in well with their existing style, or they could tweak somehow (as could he) to provide the perfect fit. Same goes to United when they bought him from Everton. Maybe they got it wrong, or they need more time to sort it out.
		
Click to expand...

Suarez / Barcelona was the weakest link in my argument, can't argue with that . He was an out and out poacher though, he would pretty much fit into any team. The others mentioned all have pluses and minuses, the pluses clearly outweighing the minuses and so worth putting your efforts into maximising their strengths. Lukaku is excellent at what he does but limited elsewhere. That has been evident throughout his career. If Chelsea are not maximising his strengths, being aware of his weaknesses, then more fool them.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



_He was really bad with his back to goal when he was at United_. I was surprised, as I expected him to be ace due to his physical strength and size. I didn't watch him in Italy, but I think it was generally accepted he improved in this area. But then, how has he been at Chelsea with his back to goal? *How was he at Everton?*

It is sometimes hard to read much into a way a person plays in one league, and guess how they'll do in another.
		
Click to expand...

_He was worse facing goal_ 😁

*He won the hide and seek title 2 seasons running* 😁

I seem to remember Martinez setting the Everton team up to supply him and he scored a good few goals but he never carried the team iirc. I'm sure @pauldj42 will correct me.

Strikers are generally rated by the amount of goals they score. Sometimes  players like Firmino, who should score more goals imo, offers much more to the team than just his goals, so when he's not slotting, he's helping the team.  

I know Lukaku has had an injury this season, maybe thats affecting him as well as the issues that were publicised recently.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Statistics can make it look worse than his performance actually was. I've always said Lukaku is a flat track bully and ive seen nothing in the PL to convince me otherwise. You couldnt rely on him to win you a title like you could Origi😉

Yes he'll score goals but he doesnt do enough off the ball if he's not scoring goals. He was often a ghost  for Everton and Yernited. Maybe Italian football suits him.

Another expensive mistake that Chelsea have made.
		
Click to expand...

It depends on how you look at it, 5 years ago it look him 3 touches to control it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 22, 2022)

Won't get many touches tonight then. He's on the bench


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## Mudball (Feb 23, 2022)

Why does Liz Truss say English should  boycott Champions League finals in St Petersburg.. I thought she told Footy players to keep out of politics if they take knee or feed kids!!

On the bright side Everton has already boycotted the CL finals..


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Why does Liz Truss say English should  boycott Champions League finals in St Petersburg.. I thought she told Footy players to keep out of politics if they take knee or feed kids!!

On the bright side Everton has already boycotted the CL finals..
		
Click to expand...


you just cant help yourself can you.....


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## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Why does Liz Truss say English should  boycott Champions League finals in St Petersburg.. I thought she told Footy players to keep out of politics if they take knee or feed kids!!

On the bright side Everton has already boycotted the CL finals..
		
Click to expand...

Noticed she hasn't mentioned anything about a Russian Oligarch owning a PL football club


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## 4LEX (Feb 23, 2022)

Re; Lukaku. Italy is a huge step down from the PL. Juve are a mess, Inter would struggle to finish Top 6 and the fact AC Milan are doing well with only a handful of top players says a lot.

Lukaku has been unlucky that Chelsea's system to supply him was mainly Chilwell and James, who have been out for ages. At the moment he looks lost. Unless he gets space to run into or crosses he's really nothing special. Hell bounce back although he does seem to be a player that needs confidence. What are the odds of a move to Spurs when Kane goes to City/Utd?


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## 4LEX (Feb 23, 2022)

Onto tonights action, really hoping Utd hammer Atletico. A totally unpleasent football side and manager.


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## Old Skier (Feb 23, 2022)

If Russia losses the hosting of the European Championship final will Gasprom withdraw its sponsorship.


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## hairball_89 (Feb 23, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Onto tonights action, really hoping Utd hammer Atletico. A totally unpleasent football side and manager.
		
Click to expand...

And Atletico are pretty horrendous, too!


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2022)

wakey wakey Maguire lol


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## Old Skier (Feb 23, 2022)

Opps


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## Swango1980 (Feb 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			wakey wakey Maguire lol
		
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What was the point in Fred even being on the pitch? So easy for the guy to cross the ball, sensational header tho


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2022)

What a finish from Matip 😂😂😂😂


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## nickjdavis (Feb 23, 2022)

am i mishearing things or do Atletico have a player called Ray Dildo ?


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## AliMc (Feb 23, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			And Atletico are pretty horrendous, too!
		
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Any chance they could both lose ?


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## hairball_89 (Feb 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a finish from Matip 😂😂😂😂
		
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outstanding. I've been saying one of his runs is going to end with a screamer for ages and that was just brilliant. top class finish!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2022)

AliMc said:



			Any chance they could both lose ?
		
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I’ll take just Man Utd losing though 😁


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 23, 2022)

Could there be anything more spursy than following up a win at Man City with defeat at turf moor?


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2022)

oh so spursy, beat City then lose to Burnley lol

horror result for Hodgsons Watford too


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			oh so spursy, beat City then lose to Burnley lol

horror result for Hodgsons Watford too
		
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Been a real problem for Spurs for a few seasons though. So inconsistent. Not sure how you fix it but hard to mount any sort of top 4 threat if you can't grind out results against sides in the bottom 3


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## paddyc (Feb 23, 2022)

Tottenham "guaranteed to let you down" as they say,🤣🤣


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Tottenham "guaranteed to let you down" as they say,🤣🤣
		
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just realised them not scoring cost me tonights mug acca lol, 4 winners and BTTS in the spuds game sigh


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## paddyc (Feb 23, 2022)

Tottenham  losing more important  than your acca mate. Off to the Emirates tomorrow night to see us not take advantage!


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Tottenham  losing more important  than your acca mate. Off to the Emirates tomorrow night to see us not take advantage!
		
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not gonna lie i couldve handled 1-1


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## paddyc (Feb 23, 2022)

fundy said:





not gonna lie i couldve handled 1-1 

Click to expand...

Yeah I would have still been happy with   1-1unlucky bud.


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Yeah I would have still been happy with   1-1unlucky bud.
		
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enjoy us playing our favoured 5-3-1 again tomorrow night


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2022)

So for a league that was done and dusted 3 weeks ago - it’s now only a 3 point gap with the teams to play each , this could be a cracker of a finish to the season


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## JamesR (Feb 23, 2022)

How did Burnley do tonight?
👏👏👏


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## Tashyboy (Feb 23, 2022)

Just had a look at Spurs and there last five games.Won one in five. That’s relegation form. The team they beat must of been rammel. Joking aside what’s the problem or are they not that far off. 
V City I thought they were very well organised and hit excellent on the break.But Burnley are a different game altogether. Are they struggling to break down teams. Thoughts-me dears


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## hairball_89 (Feb 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just had a look at Spurs and there last five games.Won one in five. That’s relegation form. The team they beat must of been rammel. Joking aside what’s the problem or are they not that far off.
V City I thought they were very well organised and hit excellent on the break.But Burnley are a different game altogether. Are they struggling to break down teams. Thoughts-me dears
		
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Thoughts? it doesn't really matter what they're like because it's simply hilarious for all. They're absolutely perfect at what they do!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Thoughts? it doesn't really matter what they're like because it's simply hilarious for all. They're absolutely perfect at what they do!
		
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Everyone loves a Spursy 😂


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## JamesR (Feb 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just had a look at Spurs and there last five games.Won one in five. That’s relegation form. The team they beat must of been rammel. Joking aside what’s the problem or are they not that far off. 
V City I thought they were very well organised and hit excellent on the break.But Burnley are a different game altogether. Are they struggling to break down teams. Thoughts-me dears
		
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They came up against a better team, with a better work ethic and a better manager


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## pauljames87 (Feb 23, 2022)

JamesR said:



			They came up against a better team, with a better work ethic and a better manager
		
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Funny that I thought they were playing Burnley tonight?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2022)

Premier League 

Top 3 Scorers

Salah -19
Jota - 12
Mane - 11

Top 3 Assists

Salah - 10
TAA - 10
Robertson - 9

👏👏👏


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## SteveW86 (Feb 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Premier League

Top 3 Scorers

Salah -19
Jota - 12
Mane - 11

Top 3 Assists

Salah - 10
TAA - 10
Robertson - 9

👏👏👏
		
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Liverpool playing very well, but still 2nd in the one that matters.

Hopefully a good race to the title over the next few months


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 23, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Been a real problem for Spurs for a few seasons though. So inconsistent. Not sure how you fix it but hard to mount any sort of top 4 threat if you can't grind out results against sides in the bottom 3
		
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Their result v city is the outlier more than the result tonight. They’ve been consistently poor except that game, for a few weeks.

From the comments post match, conte might be done already. 

Very strange.


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## JamesR (Feb 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Funny that I thought they were playing Burnley tonight?
		
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and Burnley beat them 😁


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## Orikoru (Feb 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just had a look at Spurs and there last five games.Won one in five. That’s relegation form. The team they beat must of been rammel. Joking aside what’s the problem or are they not that far off.
V City I thought they were very well organised and hit excellent on the break.But Burnley are a different game altogether. Are they struggling to break down teams. Thoughts-me dears
		
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Conte's set-up seems like it's built for a backs-to-the-wall counter attack job, hence it worked against City but it doesn't work against other teams who sit back like Wolves and Burnley.. and the majority of teams in the league tbh. But he has obviously used this system and won trophies elsewhere - I don't know if it was down to individual brilliance or what, but we have Kane and Son who must be as good as anyone Conte had before. Defensively we're just pretty poor at the basics too, most notably dealing with crosses, set pieces. I just don't get it, honestly. Maybe he needs better wing backs than we've got? Royal is poor at both ends, Reguilon is out injured presumably and Sessegnon looks awful as well - no confidence whatsoever.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 23, 2022)

Was Conte begging to be sacked tonight in the post match interview, or plainly suggesting the players are simply not good enough, or both?


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## greenone (Feb 24, 2022)

More like he's realised that keeping the (deluded) fans and board happy is an impossible job whilst levy does the buying and selling. Yes son and kane are quality players (I'd have son over kane) but the rest of them are bang average. They spent all that cash on the stadium but the trophies would all still fit in the broom cupboard.


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## Foxholer (Feb 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Conte's set-up *seems like it's built for a backs-to-the-wall counter attack job*, hence it worked against City but it doesn't work against other teams who sit back like Wolves and Burnley.. and the majority of teams in the league tbh. But he has obviously used this system and won trophies elsewhere - I don't know if it was down to individual brilliance or what, but we have Kane and Son who must be as good as anyone Conte had before. *Defensively we're just pretty poor at the basics too, most notably dealing with crosses, set pieces.* I just don't get it, honestly. Maybe he needs better wing backs than we've got? Royal is poor at both ends, Reguilon is out injured presumably and Sessegnon looks awful as well - no confidence whatsoever.
		
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Re the bold bits...Not an attractive defencive style, but can be effective. However the 2nd bold bit has to be rock solid with that style! The Kane/Son breakaways are great to watch though.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 24, 2022)

Id


greenone said:



			More like he's realised that keeping the (deluded) fans and board happy is an impossible job whilst levy does the buying and selling. Yes son and kane are quality players (I'd have son over kane) but the rest of them are bang average. They spent all that cash on the stadium but the trophies would all still fit in the broom cupboard.
		
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I’d disagree with you saying “the rest of them are bang average”

Romero, Hojbjerg, Mouro, Lloris, Bentancur, Regulion are good players Remero was voted best defender in Spain before he come to Spurs, Diers ok and Sessegnon has the potential to be good, add in Kane and Son you have the basis of a decent side.


But there is bang average in there as well, Royal, Doherty, Sanchez being the main culprits. 

Contes style is not a good watch and I’m not sure it’s going to work for us, I can understand sitting back and hitting teams like City ,Liverpool and Chelsea on the break that makes sense, but to play the same style against the rest of the league I don’t agree with, sitting back and conceding so much possession just gives sides more confidence.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Conte's set-up seems like it's built for a backs-to-the-wall counter attack job, hence it worked against City but it doesn't work against other teams who sit back like Wolves and Burnley.. and the majority of teams in the league tbh. But he has obviously used this system and won trophies elsewhere - I don't know if it was down to individual brilliance or what, but we have Kane and Son who must be as good as anyone Conte had before. Defensively we're just pretty poor at the basics too, most notably dealing with crosses, set pieces. I just don't get it, honestly. Maybe he needs better wing backs than we've got? Royal is poor at both ends, Reguilon is out injured presumably and Sessegnon looks awful as well - no confidence whatsoever.
		
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In Sessignons defence how much game time has he had. I wonder if he regrets leaving Fulham as quickly as he did as he seems t have become no more than a bit part player. He is still young but I fear he's stagnating and no wonder he looks bad when he's suddenly thrown in and expected to fit straight it


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## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			In Sessignons defence how much game time has he had. I wonder if he regrets leaving Fulham as quickly as he did as he seems t have become no more than a bit part player. He is still young but I fear he's stagnating and no wonder he looks bad when he's suddenly thrown in and expected to fit straight it
		
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Well he had half a season on loan at Hoffenheim, but yeah, he was never going to walk into our team. Regardless of the mitigating circumstances though, he's just not good enough at the moment. If the team's doing well you can have patience with the odd young player, if they're not then you can't.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Well he had half a season on loan at Hoffenheim, but yeah, he was never going to walk into our team. Regardless of the mitigating circumstances though, he's just not good enough at the moment. If the team's doing well you can have patience with the odd young player, if they're not then you can't.
		
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I didn't think Spurs was a good fit for him when he went. I would love to see on loan somewhere next season to get back to playing regularly. He is still a talent but is in danger of becoming a forgotten player.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

I couldnt believe my eyes last night, 2 penalties for us in 1 game and they werent even in front of the kop 🤭🤭

The gap closed, still lots to play for, next stop on the Klopp express is Wembley Sunday for the mickey mouse cup.

That Luis Diaz looks an absolute footballer, comfortable with both feet, clever, hard working and plenty of skill. He made that 5th goal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 24, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496635990252863489
Sweet finish from a CB


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

Loved the little dink, hefinished it like a proper Centre Forward 🙂


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## BiMGuy (Feb 24, 2022)




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## Beezerk (Feb 24, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



View attachment 41410

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Just goes to show, diving plays a big part in some teams season 😂😉


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## pokerjoke (Feb 24, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			outstanding. I've been saying one of his runs is going to end with a screamer for ages and that was just brilliant. top class finish!
		
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Screamer lmao he was 7 yards out


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## pokerjoke (Feb 24, 2022)

How’s Bielsa still in his job
Shocking tactician


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## BiMGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			How’s Bielsa still in his job
Shocking tactician
		
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Because the management aren’t making knee jerk reactions like other clubs 👍🏻


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 24, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496630837361717253
Well said Chris Sutton


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## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496630837361717253
Well said Chris Sutton
		
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Oh dear Michael Owen.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 24, 2022)

Owen just goes to prove again what an utter plank he is. Sutton is absolutely right, football still toys with this issue. I can't remember the game but last weekend there was a televised game where a player had a bad head injury, carried on, came off 5 minutes later all over the shop. He should never have been allowed to continue.


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## GB72 (Feb 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Owen just goes to prove again what an utter plank he is. Sutton is absolutely right, football still toys with this issue. I can't remember the game but last weekend there was a televised game where a player had a bad head injury, carried on, came off 5 minutes later all over the shop. He should never have been allowed to continue.
		
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It is ridiculous and it is not as if the blueprint is not there for exactly what they need to do. Idependent doctor in the stands with access to the live feed and the right to pull a player for an HIA. Player off for 10 minutes for an assessment, sub on for 10 minutes whilst this happens, proper return to play protocols afterwards to ensure recovery. Seen plenty of bad head contacts but cannot remember the last time I heard that a player was not avalable due to following proper return to play concussion protocols.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2022)

Can someone remind me if the concussion protocols are being driven by the PL or is it a new UEFA/FIFA instruction? It seems very hit and miss and Sutton has nailed it. I think it was a Leeds player at the weekend (stand to be corrected) that had a head injury and carried on for a while before coming off. It seems common sense as GB72 states not to simply put a player on straight away even if that means naming the normal number of subs and then a couple of HI subs who only play for head injuries. An independent doctor would be preferential but I assume if this is supposed to be filtered down through the EFL as well then cost becomes an issue


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## GB72 (Feb 24, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Can someone remind me if the concussion protocols are being driven by the PL or is it a new UEFA/FIFA instruction? It seems very hit and miss and Sutton has nailed it. I think it was a Leeds player at the weekend (stand to be corrected) that had a head injury and carried on for a while before coming off. It seems common sense as GB72 states not to simply put a player on straight away even if that means naming the normal number of subs and then a couple of HI subs who only play for head injuries. An independent doctor would be preferential but I assume if this is supposed to be filtered down through the EFL as well then cost becomes an issue
		
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If rugby clubs can afford it then at least a couple of leagues down should be able to. Clubs have shown that they are incapable of making the right call on players when there is a head injury and so it needs to be independent. The sub does not count as a substituion unless the injured player cannot return and then it is a permenant substituion and one of the 3 allowed.


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

Was Robin Koch this week who split his head open and was concussed in an assault challenge by Mctominay. they then taped his head up Butcher style and he played on having been told to sit on the floor and put his hand up if he was struggling which he did 15ish minutes later! Even worse Leeds then didnt use the "concussion sub" rule because they didnt want to allow Man U another sub themselves 

there was another one the previous weekend too, not to mention the Mane one at the African Nations

Definitely time for the rules to be changed


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## BiMGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

There needs to be some new head injury protocols. But there needs to be some very carefully considered rules. I don’t think just bringing on any sub is the right thing. It will get used tactically  very quickly.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2022)

GB72 said:



			If rugby clubs can afford it then at least a couple of leagues down should be able to. Clubs have shown that they are incapable of making the right call on players when there is a head injury and so it needs to be independent. The sub does not count as a substituion unless the injured player cannot return and then it is a permenant substituion and one of the 3 allowed.
		
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I agree clubs should be able to afford it but if you took a Derby or another club in financial peril would they really be able to deal with that additional cost and what about those at the lower ends of the EFL? I totally agree that the subs should be a simple job to manage and simple to implement


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## GB72 (Feb 24, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree clubs should be able to afford it but if you took a Derby or another club in financial peril would they really be able to deal with that additional cost and what about those at the lower ends of the EFL? I totally agree that the subs should be a simple job to manage and simple to implement
		
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Just becomes part of their compulsory spend. No doctor, no play, same as the money they spend on security, policing etc. Player safety is paramount.


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## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Because the management aren’t making knee jerk reactions like other clubs 👍🏻
		
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Kneejerk?? They've conceded more goals than anyone else and only won 5 games. They could be in serious trouble given that the three teams below them have games in hand. In many ways they've kind of seamlessly replaced Bournemouth.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2022)

GB72 said:



			If rugby clubs can afford it then at least a couple of leagues down should be able to. *Clubs have shown that they are incapable of making the right call on players* when there is a head injury and so it needs to be independent. The sub does not count as a substituion unless the injured player cannot return and then it is a permenant substituion and one of the 3 allowed.
		
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In defence of the clubs, and I'm no doctor when I say this, but it appears that the signs of concussion are not always immediately obvious to the physios that are on the pitch? Are the symptoms instant, or do they take a few minutes to come on? If they are instant, are they similar to general shock a player might be suffering after a bang on the head and therefore easily confused. I believe the Leeds doctors informed the player to sit down immediately on the pitch if they felt groggy, which is what happened, and then he was subbed.

So, I think what Sutton and others say makes absolute sense (and I very much dislike Sutton in most other senses). Enforce a temporary sub any time a player goes down due to a clash of heads, with the injured player not allowed to return for 10 minutes (or whatever an appropriate time is to make a suitable diagnosis). Hopefully by then, the club can be confident the health of the player, and I'd very much hope that even if it was only a club doctor assessing this, they would not send a player back on if they were feeling dizzy or groggy.


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## GB72 (Feb 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			In defence of the clubs, and I'm no doctor when I say this, but it appears that the signs of concussion are not always immediately obvious to the physios that are on the pitch? Are the symptoms instant, or do they take a few minutes to come on? If they are instant, are they similar to general shock a player might be suffering after a bang on the head and therefore easily confused. I believe the Leeds doctors informed the player to sit down immediately on the pitch if they felt groggy, which is what happened, and then he was subbed.

So, I think what Sutton and others say makes absolute sense (and I very much dislike Sutton in most other senses). Enforce a temporary sub any time a player goes down due to a clash of heads, with the injured player not allowed to return for 10 minutes (or whatever an appropriate time is to make a suitable diagnosis). Hopefully by then, the club can be confident the health of the player, and I'd very much hope that even if it was only a club doctor assessing this, they would not send a player back on if they were feeling dizzy or groggy.
		
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That is why they have the assessment process. Impact to the head, doctor signals the ref (or the ref can call it) and the player is pulled for 10 minutes to have a full assessment. That takes any maybe out of the situation. You pass the assessment and you are back on after 10 minutes and the sub that replaced you comes off and it does not count as a subsitution. Assessment fails and you stay off and the sub stays on. Just seems safer that way. Also means not knee jerk medical decisions and gives time for a proper assessment. At the moment, players are losing consciousness, even briefly and playing on. In rugby a loss of consciousness means immediately subbed off, no need for an HIA you are sitting the rest of it out.


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## hairball_89 (Feb 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Screamer lmao he was 7 yards out
		
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Blimey, come on. He's been getting to the edge of the box and having pot shots. So I've been saying he's going to smash one in. Ergo a screamer. 

No, he didn't do that yesterday. but it was a great goal, which as I said was a top class finish. Nice of you to request I spell it out though!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 24, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			There needs to be some new head injury protocols. But there needs to be some very carefully considered rules. I don’t think just bringing on any sub is the right thing. It will get used tactically  very quickly.
		
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That’s why you have every match has an independent doctor who makes the quick on field assessment and then if needed takes him away for longer HIA - works well in rugby


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## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2022)

GB72 said:



			That is why they have the assessment process. Impact to the head, doctor signals the ref (or the ref can call it) and the player is pulled for 10 minutes to have a full assessment. That takes any maybe out of the situation. You pass the assessment and you are back on after 10 minutes and the sub that replaced you comes off and it does not count as a subsitution. Assessment fails and you stay off and the sub stays on. Just seems safer that way. Also means not knee jerk medical decisions and gives time for a proper assessment.* At the moment, players are losing consciousness, even briefly and playing on.* In rugby a loss of consciousness means immediately subbed off, no need for an HIA you are sitting the rest of it out.
		
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They should start using VAR to help judge if a player has been knocked out or not. It's been sod all use for anything else so far, so they might as well do something positive with it.


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## GB72 (Feb 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			They should start using VAR to help judge if a player has been knocked out or not. It's been sod all use for anything else so far, so they might as well do something positive with it.
		
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A good point, do not even need a doctor in the ground, just at the VAR centre


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## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2022)

GB72 said:



			A good point, do not even need a doctor in the ground, just at the VAR centre
		
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Haha, well I think he can still do an assessment of the player's reflexes etc (whatever they test, I dunno, I'm not a doctor). But it must be near impossible to judge if he was knocked out for even a second or two, the player himself may not even realise or remember. A look at the pitchside monitor could help.


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## GB72 (Feb 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Haha, well I think he can still do an assessment of the player's reflexes etc (whatever they test, I dunno, I'm not a doctor). But it must be near impossible to judge if he was knocked out for even a second or two, the player himself may not even realise or remember. A look at the pitchside monitor could help.
		
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I was more thinking about watching the footage for impact and the need to pull a player for an HIA. That can be done by an independent doctor at Stockley Park.  Does not need an independent doctor to carry out the assessment, no doctor is going to fluff the results and put the club before their medical licence.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 24, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Blimey, come on. He's been getting to the edge of the box and having pot shots. So I've been saying he's going to smash one in. Ergo a screamer.

No, he didn't do that yesterday. but it was a great goal, which as I said was a top class finish. Nice of you to request I spell it out though!
		
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No problem 
Trouble is is wasn’t a great goal either.
7 yards out it was a goal
Even the keeper dived out the way


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## yandabrown (Feb 24, 2022)

Please don't mistake being uncounsious for concussion, certainly being unconsious is absolutley a sympton of concussion but you do not have to be knocked out to be suffering from concussion (in fact less than 10% of cases include loss of consciosness). Concussion symptoms include memory loss, "seeing stars", confusion etc. Indeed the FA's own concussion guidelines are sub-titled "If in doubt sit them out". Whilst there is a good poke at VAR on this thread, there is mention in the guidance of using video footage to support any on field assessments.
https://www.thefa.com/-/media/files/pdf/my-football/the-fa-concussion-guidelines-2019.ashx?la=en


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



View attachment 41410

Click to expand...

171 pens in 30 seasons is only 5.7per season. We've had 4 this season and should've had another 4 at least to date.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Blimey, come on. He's been getting to the edge of the box and having pot shots. So I've been saying he's going to smash one in. Ergo a screamer.

No, he didn't do that yesterday. but it was a great goal, which as I said was a top class finish. Nice of you to request I spell it out though!
		
Click to expand...

It required more skill than just to bang one from 25yards out. 

A Centre Half shouldnt be running through a midfield amd defence and  dinking the keeper. 

What a pass though from the 1 season wonder 😉


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			No problem
*Trouble is is wasn’t a great goal either.*
7 yards out it was a goal
Even the keeper dived out the way
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			They should start using VAR to help judge if a player has been knocked out or not. It's been sod all use for anything else so far, so they might as well do something positive with it.
		
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If a player goes down, clutching their face in agony, they should automatically be taken off for 10 minutes minimum, and a temporary sub used.

It might make players think twice about acting up like big drama queens by pretending an opponent has made contact with their head. If their actions suggest they have an agonising head injury, they are taken off the pitch for a comprehensive assessment. Simple.


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## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If a player goes down, clutching their face in agony, they should automatically be taken off for 10 minutes minimum, and a temporary sub used.

It might make players think twice about acting up like big drama queens by pretending an opponent has made contact with their head. If their actions suggest they have an agonising head injury, they are taken off the pitch for a comprehensive assessment. Simple.
		
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Can't really do that. Managers will be instructing one of their forwards to do it with ten minutes to go so they can bring on another sub to play in defence and hold onto a victory.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Can't really do that. Managers will be instructing one of their forwards to do it with ten minutes to go so they can bring on another sub to play in defence and hold onto a victory.
		
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If a team was to try and plan for that, it would only work if the player they want to take off gets any sort of contact to their head. That would be a pretty big coincidence, unless the player gets contact on ANY part of their body and then feigns contact to the head. However, there could be a condition that, if evidence shows there was clearly no contact to the head, then that player should get a huge ban and a big fine for the team.

I was thinking to the Ajax game last night, where a player fell down in "agony" after minimal to zero contact to his head after a heated exchange. I doubt he'd have done that if he knew he'd have to leave the pitch for 10 minutes.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If a player goes down, clutching their face in agony, they should automatically be taken off for 10 minutes minimum, and a temporary sub used.

It might make players think twice about acting up like big drama queens by pretending an opponent has made contact with their head. If their actions suggest they have an agonising head injury, they are taken off the pitch for a comprehensive assessment. Simple.
		
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Fernandes would only spend  8 minutes on the pitch  every week 😄


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## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Fernandes would only spend  8 minutes on the pitch  every week 😄
		
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Very true, and I would be pleased if it stopped him doing that. Annoys me.

Although, I don't think he is clutching his head feigning a head injury on most occasions. Rather, he is on the ground pretending he is in agony elsewhere, and he covers his face to cover his fake tears.


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## BiMGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Kneejerk?? They've conceded more goals than anyone else and only won 5 games. They could be in serious trouble given that the three teams below them have games in hand. In many ways they've kind of seamlessly replaced Bournemouth.
		
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Its a particularly bad spell at the minute. But it happens every season. I’m pretty confident we’ll be fine once we have some decent players back in action. 

Admittedly losing to Everton and Newcastle was painful. And constantly playing Tyler Roberts is baffling. 

Who would replace Bielsa at this stage of the season?


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## BiMGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Fernandes would only spend  8 minutes on the pitch  every week 😄
		
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The warm up?


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## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Its a particularly bad spell at the minute. But it happens every season. I’m pretty confident we’ll be fine once we have some decent players back in action.

Admittedly losing to Everton and Newcastle was painful. And constantly playing Tyler Roberts is baffling.

Who would replace Bielsa at this stage of the season?
		
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Big Sam? Nuno? Ole? Benitez? Ranieri?  Alright fair point.


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			This isnt good


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490373742454837251
unlike the right cross from Keenan Davis i think it is lol
		
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4mths sentence and a 10 year footie ban it seems

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-60512219


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## Tashyboy (Feb 24, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			There needs to be some new head injury protocols. But there needs to be some very carefully considered rules. I don’t think just bringing on any sub is the right thing. It will get used tactically  very quickly.
		
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Here’s a thought, have a neutral dr assess players. His decision stands. End of.


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## BiMGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Here’s a thought, have a neutral dr assess players. His decision stands. End of.
		
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Agree with that. 

But what about the sub who goes on while the player is being assessed? It’s wide open to abuse. 

Maybe they should have to use the sub keeper. Or have an U23 player pre nominated as the concussion sub.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Very true, and I would be pleased if it stopped him doing that. Annoys me.

Although, I don't think he is clutching his head feigning a head injury on most occasions. Rather, he is on the ground pretending he is in agony elsewhere, and he covers his face to cover his fake tears.
		
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He, like most other PL footballers, have no boundaries when it comes to feigning injury. 

Unfortunately it's part of the game and it's goin nowhere anytime soon. That one whe he was  rolling round the floor when leeds scored on sunday  was very funny.

On a sidenote  he's odds on for the Hide&Seek champion award this season......


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## Slime (Feb 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Fernandes would only spend  8 minutes on the pitch  every week 😄
		
Click to expand...


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## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 24, 2022)

UEFA setting a great example tonight, unbelievable.....


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## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2022)

I'll be interested what reception Zenit St Petersburg get in Spain tonight


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2022)

Some really good points regarding concussion. If we can come to some clear and cohesive points together on a forum surely the PFA and PL should be able to get this sorted and quickly. I hope it doesn't take a serious incident, even post match to galvanise action


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## paddyc (Feb 24, 2022)

I'm live from the Emirates really nothing to get excited about here unless your a Wolves fan. The usual Arsenal  first half performance..dull lethargic pedestrian lacking any kind of quality and gave away a shocking goal. 2ND half report might follow.


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

paddyc said:



			I'm live from the Emirates really nothing to get excited about here unless your a Wolves fan. The usual Arsenal  first half performance..dull lethargic pedestrian lacking any kind of quality and gave away a shocking goal. 2ND half report might follow.
		
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been more action in the rangers game at half time than there will be in 90 mins lol

what minute do we revert to 5-3-1?


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

someone take Lacazette to a brothel plse


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

seriously, wanting the ball kicked out for a hammy strain, get a grip


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2022)

Pepe sparks a glimmer of life into the home side


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2022)

Fire up the squirrel


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

When will Wolves learn to stop time wasting? Another game this season they've lost deep into injury time.


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

we werent very good, deserved a point but nothing more, Atkinson an utter joke as per usual mind

but we'll take it, such a clinical strike from Laca to win it 🤣🤣🤣


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			When will Wolves learn to stop time wasting? Another game this season they've lost deep into injury time.
		
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they only started in the 25th minute................


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			they only started in the 25th minute................
		
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Now Raul Jiminez is taking selfies with fans 😫😫


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

Jim Rosenthal hosting live football and Clive Tyldesley  on commemtary has taken me back...... the best thing about amazon prime football service 😁😁


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Jim Rosenthal hosting live football and Clive Tyldesley  on commemtary has taken me back...... the best thing about amazon prime football service 😁😁
		
Click to expand...


theres not much good with it is there..... awful picture, 20 seconds behind live (if youre lucky), awful comms etc


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

Rangers beat Dortmund over 2 legs whilst Celtic get knocked out by (checks spelling) Bodo Glimt 

Be a fun night in parts of Glasgee


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			When will Wolves learn to stop time wasting? Another game this season they've lost deep into injury time.
		
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I nearly wanted arsenal to win after the way wolves behaved tonight, only nearly though. Very poor, disappointing for a team looking to break into the top 4.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I nearly wanted arsenal to win after the way wolves behaved tonight, only nearly though. Very poor, disappointing for a team looking to break into the top 4.
		
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I understand why teams and managers do it but football and teams evolve and it needs to change. 

I never seen the Athleti/Yernited  game last night but i'll bet my last £10 they were at it from the 1st minute. 

With the quality of footballers theyve got,that Athleti side should've evolved into a great side.  Unfortunately Simeone is holding them back. 

Same could be said for Burnley. Theyve been an establiahed side for many years and they've not changed.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			Rangers beat Dortmund over 2 legs whilst Celtic get knocked out by (checks spelling) Bodo Glimt 

Be a fun night in parts of Glasgee
		
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Rangers/The Rangers/Sevco etc have always been the greatest side in Glasgow😉


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I understand why teams and managers do it but football and teams evolve and it needs to change.

I never seen the Athleti/Yernited  game last night but i'll bet my last £10 they were at it from the 1st minute.

With the quality of footballers theyve got,that Athleti side should've evolved into a great side.  Unfortunately Simeone is holding them back.

Same could be said for Burnley. Theyve been an establiahed side for many years and they've not changed.
		
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one of em all but died a couple of minutes after the goal, i turned over about 30 seconds later lol

and that was with suarez on the bench 🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			one of em all but died a couple of minutes after the goal, i turned over about 30 seconds later lol

and that was with suarez on the bench 🤣🤣🤣
		
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I bet Suarez was disgusted 😁


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## fundy (Feb 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I bet Suarez was disgusted 😁
		
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almost as big a cheerleader as laca was tonight haha


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## paddyc (Feb 24, 2022)

Well that turned out well after 80 mins of never looking like scoring. Great atmosphere in the Emirates tonight. 2nd half performance a lot better if a trifle fortunate to nick the win. Atkinson needs to retire woeful refereeing.


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## Slime (Feb 24, 2022)

Looks like 4th place is yours to lose.


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## fundy (Feb 25, 2022)

Slime said:



			Looks like 4th place is yours to lose.  

Click to expand...


lol not buying that one slime, youre still in possession, yours to lose


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## Slime (Feb 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol not buying that one slime, youre still in possession, yours to lose 

Click to expand...


LOL, not buying that one fundy, you've two games in hand and just one point behind, yours to lose.


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## fundy (Feb 25, 2022)

Slime said:



			LOL, not buying that one fundy, you've two games in hand and just one point behind, yours to lose. 

Click to expand...


so were agreed, its still spursys to lose


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## Orikoru (Feb 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			so were agreed, its still spursys to lose 

Click to expand...

I think we lost it a long time ago.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2022)

It sounds as though there could be some interesting ownership / finance issues coming out of the Russian sanctions. Chelsea, obviously, but also Everton and perhaps one or two others.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 25, 2022)

CL final to Paris.
Putin  won’t like that.
But won’t be surprised.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It sounds as though there could be some interesting ownership / finance issues coming out of the Russian sanctions. Chelsea, obviously, but also Everton and perhaps one or two others.
		
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Will Roman be allowed to attend the game Sunday ?


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## GreiginFife (Feb 25, 2022)

West Ham get Sevilla, tough game. Especially the away leg. 

Rangers get Red Star Belgrade


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 25, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think we lost it a long time ago.
		
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That you lost it implies you once had it, which is debatable. 😁


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## Orikoru (Feb 25, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			That you lost it implies you once had it, which is debatable. 😁
		
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Was only going from what Fundy said! 

We were top of the league in September though... the glory Nuno years months weeks.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It sounds as though there could be some interesting ownership / finance issues coming out of the Russian sanctions. Chelsea, obviously, but also Everton and perhaps one or two others.
		
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I hope all the dirty money pumped into Chelsea over the years comes back haunt them.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 25, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			West Ham get Sevilla, tough game. Especially the away leg.

Rangers get Red Star Belgrade
		
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I'm sure Seville will be up for it 😆⚒️


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## fundy (Feb 25, 2022)

Bye bye Norwich

Not a chance they get out of trouble if tonights anything to go by, no fight at all, Saints cruised through the game in 3rd gear without ever being in danger


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## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			Bye bye Norwich

Not a chance they get out of trouble if tonights anything to go by, no fight at all, Saints cruised through the game in 3rd gear without ever being in danger
		
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Complete different side from what i seen at Anfield last week for 60 minutes.


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## fundy (Feb 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Complete different side from what i seen at Anfield last week for 60 minutes.
		
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surely that just confirms they go down though, have a go in a game they can never win yet in a game they actually still had a chance in until 5 mins from the end they just let them play in front of them, no one put a foot in, no drive no leader nothing 

will finish top 6 in the championship next year again lol


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			surely that just confirms they go down though, have a go in a game they can never win yet in a game they actually still had a chance in until 5 mins from the end they just let them play in front of them, no one put a foot in, no drive no leader nothing

*will finish top 6 in the championship next year again* lol
		
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While Everton finish mid table in the same league hopefully 😉


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## fundy (Feb 26, 2022)

Big Sam to Elland Road, calling Big Sam to Elland Road with immediate effect plse


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

Leeds look awful, phillips and bamford must be that important to the way he wants to play football 

being picked apart today


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## larmen (Feb 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Bye bye Norwich

Not a chance they get out of trouble if tonights anything to go by, no fight at all, Saints cruised through the game in 3rd gear without ever being in danger
		
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I am just happy they spend about 18 million on our (Bremen) two quality strikers who are ‘too good for Bundesliga 2’. Villa must still be sad to have missed out on Rashica. Sargent does about 3 nice goals a year, 13 sloppy one would be much better.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

What a miss .


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## arnieboy (Feb 26, 2022)

The Spurs yo yo season rolls on!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

arnieboy said:



			The Spurs yo yo season rolls on!
		
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Nailed on defeat to Everton next


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2022)

Could/should be out of sight by now, the ball just won't go in.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

what next for leeds.. surely biesla has to go.. they clearly been suffering a bit from second season syndrome, add to that injuries to phillips and bamford bielsa hasnt changed his style to adapt .. i mean in feb alone they played 5... drew 1.. lost 4.. scored 5 goals but have let in a massive 20 goals. thats the same as liverpool and wolves have all season.. they have let 5 more goals in all season than norwich.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Nailed on defeat to Everton next
		
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Please no.


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## fundy (Feb 26, 2022)

you not cheering for Everton later Stu


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2022)

How's that not a penalty?


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2022)

Unbelievable, Jeff.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			you not cheering for Everton later Stu 

Click to expand...

Its like picking your favourite between Myra Hindley and Ian Brady😡

I'm goin 4nil Citeh


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## Piece (Feb 26, 2022)

Four points from United this season. 

Can we play you every week?


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## fundy (Feb 26, 2022)

Bielsa been sacked it seems


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## BiMGuy (Feb 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Big Sam to Elland Road, calling Big Sam to Elland Road with immediate effect plse 

Click to expand...

Absolutely not. I’d rather be relegated than have that crook anywhere near my club.


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## BrianM (Feb 26, 2022)

Everton playing well 😳😂😂
That Van De Beek isn’t to bad a player…..


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## fundy (Feb 26, 2022)

interesting

*Sam Wallace* @SamWallaceTel
50s

BREAKING Roman Abramovich hands over ‘stewardship and care’ of Chelsea football club to the ‘trustees of Chelsea’s charitable Foundation’


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## fundy (Feb 26, 2022)

clear handball, unless against the league leaders lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

Well that’s a turn up - how’s that not a penalty or at the least as a second viewing


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## larmen (Feb 26, 2022)

I expected Rangnik to get more out of United. Nice to see me being proven wrong. Schadenfreude if a big club doesn’t get the results they want.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			clear handball, unless against the league leaders lol
		
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## 4LEX (Feb 26, 2022)

Definite penalty for Everton there, really poor decision and a big call in the title race. Huge win for City.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			interesting

*Sam Wallace* @SamWallaceTel
50s

BREAKING Roman Abramovich hands over ‘stewardship and care’ of Chelsea football club to the ‘trustees of Chelsea’s charitable Foundation’
		
Click to expand...

Good, long overdue him and his money are out of this country


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Good, long overdue him and his money are out of this country
		
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His money will still be within the club and don’t see him being out of the club 

It’s a move to ensure the club don’t get frozen and the staff and players etc still get paid


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

That’s a huge mistake from VAR - how can Kavanagh see that and say “not clear enough evidence” ?!

Arm out - the ball hits his arm - can see it clear as day 

How many angles did they have as well

Can’t blame the ref


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## Rlburnside (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			His money will still be within the club and don’t see him being out of the club

It’s a move to ensure the club don’t get frozen and the staff and players etc still get paid
		
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I don’t really know the details but can’t see him being involved with the club much longer and can’t see how he could be allowed to invest any more money in the club.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I don’t really know the details but can’t see him being involved with the club much longer and can’t see how he could be allowed to invest any more money in the club.
		
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The club runs pretty much self sufficient now anyway so doesn’t need too much investment from him , there won’t be too much affect for Chelsea


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## Jimaroid (Feb 26, 2022)

I missed the handball/penalty incident as dinner was on the go but heard talk of not being given due to offside in the build up? 

Got to look at the positives because it was a decent performance in a game we were never going to win. Only conceding one goal is a minor victory for us.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s a huge mistake from VAR - how can Kavanagh see that and say “not clear enough evidence” ?!

Arm out - the ball hits his arm - can see it clear as day

How many angles did they have as well

Can’t blame the ref
		
Click to expand...

Was there actually a shot that showed, without any shadow of a doubt, exactly what part of his arm it hit?  No, there wasn't.  Paul Tierney was completely blindside, so no fault there.  Was there sufficient evidence of a clear and obvious error?  No.

Sly showing a still shot from the back after the contact is not proof of a penalty, only of their agenda to stir the  to promote interest in their product.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Was there actually a shot that showed, without any shadow of a doubt, exactly what part of his arm it hit?  No, there wasn't.  Paul Tierney was completely blindside, so no fault there.  Was there sufficient evidence of a clear and obvious error?  No.

Sly showing a still shot from the back after the contact is not proof of a penalty, only of their agenda to stir the  to promote interest in their product.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe he was lucky his sleeve was hanging low. Had it been pulled slightly more up his arm, probably a definite handball as it would be clear it touched below it. Handball is nothing to do with arm anymore, it is to do with how long a player's sleeves are and whether ball hits above or below


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Was there actually a shot that showed, without any shadow of a doubt, exactly what part of his arm it hit?  No, there wasn't.  Paul Tierney was completely blindside, so no fault there.  Was there sufficient evidence of a clear and obvious error?  No.

Sly showing a still shot from the back after the contact is not proof of a penalty, only of their agenda to stir the  to promote interest in their product.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497653596074172418
Couple of pictures show from the front as well


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## Rlburnside (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The club runs pretty much self sufficient now anyway so doesn’t need too much investment from him , there won’t be too much affect for Chelsea
		
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So do you think if they are to stay at the top they won’t need his money to invest in players for the next 2/3 years? Which could cost £100s of millions?


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2022)

He's handed the stewardship of the club to Chelsea's charitable foundation, but I'm convinced he'll still be running the club from behind that particular barricade.


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## greenone (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s a huge mistake from VAR - how can Kavanagh see that and say “not clear enough evidence” ?!

Arm out - the ball hits his arm - can see it clear as day

How many angles did they have as well

Can’t blame the ref
		
Click to expand...

How many is that so far for kavanagh this season as the var?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			So do you think if they are to stay at the top they won’t need his money to invest in players for the next 2/3 years? Which could cost £100s of millions?
		
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They managed to get Lukaku in and all those others in by selling players - Chelsea have been self sufficient for a while now and have built up their financial income to ensure they don’t rely on the owners money 

They have a lot of players that can be sold to generate funds


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497653596074172418
Couple of pictures show from the front as well
		
Click to expand...

And the left hand one appears to clearly show the ball in contact with the shirt.  Ergo no penalty,


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## Jimaroid (Feb 26, 2022)

What does stewardship mean though? It doesn’t seem to mean anything legally so it looks like a clever PR exercise.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			clear handball, unless against the league leaders lol
		
Click to expand...

We had a 10 page discussion about this the other week. For some reason the FA have decided that an arm finishes where the shirt sleeve starts. So half of the upper arm is deemed not an arm. 😳 I said the other week when a similar incident happened it was rammel. I still stand by it. That was a nailed on handball by Rodrigo. But the powers that be deem it not to be. The only thing positive was that they are consistent in enforcing a rubbish rule.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And the left hand one appears to clearly show the ball in contact with the shirt.  Ergo no penalty,
		
Click to expand...




🤷‍♂️


Tashyboy said:



			We had a 10 page discussion about this the other week. For some reason the FA have decided that an arm finishes where the shirt sleeve starts. So half of the upper arm is deemed not an arm. 😳 I said the other week when a similar incident happened it was rammel. I still stand by it. That was a nailed on handball by Rodrigo. But the powers that be deem it not to be. *The only thing positive was that they are consistent in enforcing a rubbish rule.*

Click to expand...

Tell that to Wolves 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497653906767233024


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## BrianM (Feb 26, 2022)

If it has to be clear and obvious then for me it’s not a penalty, I’m probably very much in the minority though.
Thought Everton were excellent though and will have no trouble staying up if they play with that intensity week in week out.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They managed to get Lukaku in and all those others in by selling players - Chelsea have been self sufficient for a while now and have built up their financial income to ensure they don’t rely on the owners money

They have a lot of players that can be sold to generate funds
		
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It’s debatable if any club could be self sufficient without investment from wealthy owners in the long term. 

Anyway taking football out of the equation with the current situation I hope sanctions are taken including against Abramovich and no more Russian money can flow into this country


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 41461

🤷‍♂️


Tell that to Wolves


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497653906767233024

Click to expand...

Is the ball at that point actually in contact with the arm?   it looks as though there could be daylight between the ball & the arm but it is clearly impossible to tell categorically, therefore there is insufficient evidence of a clear and obvious error to overturn the decision. 

If Tierney had given it there is clearly insufficient evidence to prove there was no contact so the penalty would have stood.

It's "one of those".


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## 4LEX (Feb 26, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			What does stewardship mean though? It doesn’t seem to mean anything legally so it looks like a clever PR exercise.
		
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Keeping a low profile and running the club from his yacht or Russia. He knows the heat he's under and the PL are too weak to do anything so thinks this will buy him time until it blows over.

As an owner he's done a remarkable job, won trophies and achieved so much success on and off the pitch. He's also taken advantage of scouting and academy football which harvests players for profit either through sales or loan fees. The first big club to realise they can make serious money doing that even if they hardly kick a ball for the first team.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 26, 2022)

It’s a pointless discussion. IF Tierney had given it, Richy would have missed anyway because that’s just the way we are. 😀


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is the ball at that point actually in contact with the arm?   it looks as though there could be daylight between the ball & the arm but it is clearly impossible to tell categorically, therefore there is insufficient evidence of a clear and obvious error to overturn the decision.

If Tierney had given it there is clearly insufficient evidence to prove there was no contact so the penalty would have stood.

It's "one of those".
		
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Think most fans would say that’s a pen !
But it shows how poor the rules are now that it could go either way.


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## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is the ball at that point actually in contact with the arm?   it looks as though there could be daylight between the ball & the arm but it is clearly impossible to tell categorically, therefore there is insufficient evidence of a clear and obvious error to overturn the decision.

If Tierney had given it there is clearly insufficient evidence to prove there was no contact so the penalty would have stood.

It's "one of those".
		
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Agreed, although I felt it was handball, I am pretty sure the ball is not touching the player's arm in that second photo. If it was, it would be the most obvious handball for VAR to give.

I'm guessing that photo was taken after it hit the player and was falling down? If so, it proves that one shouldn't put to much faith in a still photo.


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## larmen (Feb 26, 2022)

4LEX said:



			As an owner he's done a remarkable job, won trophies and achieved so much success on and off the pitch. He's also taken advantage of scouting and academy football which harvests players for profit either through sales or loan fees. The first big club to realise they can make serious money doing that even if they hardly kick a ball for the first team.
		
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KdB ?


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			We had a 10 page discussion about this the other week. For some reason the FA have decided that an arm finishes where the shirt sleeve starts. So half of the upper arm is deemed not an arm. 😳 I said the other week when a similar incident happened it was rammel. I still stand by it. That was a nailed on handball by Rodrigo. But the powers that be deem it not to be. The only thing positive was that *they are consistent in enforcing a rubbish rule.*

Click to expand...

There was an incident in the Leeds Spurs game earlier today when a ball driven into a thigh bounced up into an arm inside the area.  No penalty.

in the Liverpool Chelsea game, a ball driven at goal came off Reece James' thigh as he tried to block it and bounced into his arm.  Penalty and a red card.

Consistent my arse.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2022)

BrianM said:



			If it has to be clear and obvious then for me it’s not a penalty, I’m probably very much in the minority though.
Thought Everton were excellent though and will have no trouble staying up if they play with that intensity week in week out.
		
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Last time I saw Lampard in charge of a team v City, they got battered.Not so tonight. The difference between This week and last week was Kane. If Everton had took there chances City would have been in trouble.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			It’s a pointless discussion. IF Tierney had given it, Richy would have missed anyway because that’s just the way we are. 😀
		
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Nah, he'd have been on the floor holding his face


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## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			There was an incident in the Leeds Spurs game earlier today when a ball driven into a thigh bounced up into an arm inside the area.  No penalty.

in the Liverpool Chelsea game, a ball driven at goal came off Reece James' thigh as he tried to block it and bounced into his arm.  Penalty and a red card.

Consistent my arse.
		
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In the two instances I commented on they were consistent in enforcing a rubbish rule.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think most fans would say that’s a pen !
But it shows how poor the rules are now that it could go either way.
		
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Was it a penalty; on the balance of probabilities, yes.

But under the VAR system, if Tierney doesn't award it there has to be evidence of a clear and obvious error; from the pictures there's a strong likelihood that he probably missed it, but not evidence beyond all reasonable doubt.


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## 4LEX (Feb 26, 2022)

larmen said:



			KdB ?
		
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He's one that slipped through the net but in terms of profit they still made over £10m on him and that's without his sell clause when he went to City.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 26, 2022)

Definitely a penalty in my opinion although Pep seems adamant it would have been offside. Some touching scenes for the Ukranian players.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Was it a penalty; on the balance of probabilities, yes.

But under the VAR system, if Tierney doesn't award it there has to be evidence of a clear and obvious error; from the pictures there's a strong likelihood that he probably missed it, but not evidence beyond all reasonable doubt.
		
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Yes but it’s the way the law is set up.
It’s as if your arm isn’t in your shirt sleeve..
Maybe all football kits need different coloured sleeves than the main body .
Stupid rule.imo.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497653596074172418
Couple of pictures show from the front as well
		
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We've seen pens given for less. 

My issue is because of the the shitshow that is VAR and how its used, the on field ref isnt making the final decision. Kavannagh must be looking at that and thinking i'll err on the side of caution and let the ref make his decision. That would be the best way to use the tech theyve got. Unfortunately its not allowed.

Mike Riley and his cronies have ruined the use of the  Tech.

Wasnt it Kavannagh/Tierney who never gave the pen at spurs on Jota? 

Afterall, handball is "subjective".


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but it’s the way the law is set up.
It’s as if your arm isn’t in your shirt sleeve..
Maybe all football kits need different coloured sleeves than the main body .
Stupid rule.imo.
		
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I'm not disputing that; I'm just saying that on this occasion the officials appear to be perfectly applying an imperfect law & review system.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 26, 2022)

Poland and Sweden refuse to play Russia - https://www.skysports.com/football/...h-russia-in-opposition-to-invasion-of-ukraine

Can see FIFA making a mess of this. Should be a simple decision in the current climate surely?


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## Piece (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			There was an incident in the Leeds Spurs game earlier today when a ball driven into a thigh bounced up into an arm inside the area.  No penalty.

in the Liverpool Chelsea game, a ball driven at goal came off Reece James' thigh as he tried to block it and bounced into his arm.  Penalty and a red card.

Consistent my arse.
		
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I didn’t see the first incident. Genuine question…Did the arm stop the ball from going in the goal like the Reece James one?


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## putterman60 (Feb 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah, he'd have been on the floor holding his face
		
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love it !!!!

As an Everton fan i`m biased

options

miss penalty city win 2-0
score pen Everton go onto wil 2-1 lol

as the great Jimmy Greaves used to say `its a funny old game`


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## 4LEX (Feb 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but it’s the way the law is set up.
It’s as if your arm isn’t in your shirt sleeve..
Maybe all football kits need different coloured sleeves than the main body .
Stupid rule.imo.
		
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What if the player has a long sleeve shirt on?


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

4LEX said:



			What if the player has a long sleeve shirt on? 

Click to expand...

We had this a few weeks back. How many love sleeve shirts do you see now? You mainly see players with long sleeve compression tops under a short sleeve shirt


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## Rlburnside (Feb 26, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Poland and Sweden refuse to play Russia - https://www.skysports.com/football/...h-russia-in-opposition-to-invasion-of-ukraine

Can see FIFA making a mess of this. Should be a simple decision in the current climate surely?
		
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Perhaps all clubs should refuse to play against Chelsea😱😂


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## 4LEX (Feb 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We had this a few weeks back. How many love sleeve shirts do you see now? You mainly see players with long sleeve compression tops under a short sleeve shirt
		
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Not many but how can you have a rule that's reliant on the optional length of a shirt sleeve? What happens if a keeper handles outside the box with their longer sleeves?

In the real world, we don't need the PL or VAR to tell us where the shoulder ends and arm starts. Another example of how badly the game is run and how rules are made up on a whim.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Not many but how can you have a rule that's reliant on the optional length of a shirt sleeve? What happens if a keeper handles outside the box with their longer sleeves?

In the real world, we don't need the PL or VAR to tell us where the shoulder ends and arm starts. Another example of how badly the game is run and how rules are made up on a whim.
		
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It's not dependant on that tho is it...that just is a way of easily defining it in short sleeve shirts.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2022)

Piece said:



			I didn’t see the first incident. Genuine question…Did the arm stop the ball from going in the goal like the Reece James one?
		
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No it didn't, but that should not affect the decision re handball, I accept it may change the decision regarding any card.


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## 4LEX (Feb 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			It's not dependant on that tho is it...that just is a way of easily defining it in short sleeve shirts.
		
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Everyone knows where the shoulder ends and the arms starts, the human body hasn't changed in thousands of years. Why is the end of a sleeve now used to determine a decision. Does every team have the same length sleeves? If not the teams with the longer sleeves gain an unfair advantage. That just highlights how stupid it is surely


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They managed to get Lukaku in and all those others in by selling players - Chelsea have been self sufficient for a while now and have built up their financial income to ensure they don’t rely on the owners money

They have a lot of players that can be sold to generate funds
		
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If you genuinely believe that I'm shocked.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Everyone knows where the shoulder ends and the arms starts, the human body hasn't changed in thousands of years. Why is the end of a sleeve now used to determine a decision. Does every team have the same length sleeves? If not the teams with the longer sleeves gain an unfair advantage. That just highlights how stupid it is surely 

Click to expand...

It's done by the armpit line 

Is everyone's arm the same length? Would crouch be unfairly treated as his arms were freakishly long.

Sterling has t rex arms does he get an advantage.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			There was an incident in the Leeds Spurs game earlier today when a ball driven into a thigh bounced up into an arm inside the area.  No penalty.

in the Liverpool Chelsea game, a ball driven at goal came off Reece James' thigh as he tried to block it and bounced into his arm.  Penalty and a red card.

Consistent my arse.
		
Click to expand...

I said  a few times that that wasnt a penalty, UNTIL I seen the side view which clearly showed that Reece James also brought his hand forward to stop the ball going over the line. In the end he did make an intentional movement towards the ball.

That today was a pen all day long, Ive said it for a few years Tierney is the biggest coward of a ref in the pen. Not the worst, but he's a coward.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			If you genuinely believe that I'm shocked.
		
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He read it on twitter, it must be true😜


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			That today was a pen all day long, Ive said it for a few years Tierney is the biggest coward of a ref in the pen. Not the worst, but he's a coward.
		
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Tierney had absolutely no view of that one today; to give it would have been a best guess.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I said  a few times that that wasnt a penalty, UNTIL I seen the side view which clearly showed that Reece James also brought his hand forward to stop the ball going over the line. In the end he did make an intentional movement towards the ball.

That today was a pen all day long, Ive said it for a few years Tierney is the biggest coward of a ref in the pen. Not the worst, but he's a coward.
		
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Manchester based refs shouldnt be reffing manchester based teams. The same goes for all the other cities.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Tierney had absolutely no view of that one today; to give it would have been a best guess.
		
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I dont have an issue with Tierney not giving it, kavannagh on the other hand....


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## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			It's done by the armpit line

Is everyone's arm the same length? Would crouch be unfairly treated as his arms were freakishly long.

Sterling has *t rex arms *does he get an advantage.
		
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Pickford does 😳


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			If you genuinely believe that I'm shocked.
		
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Over the last 5 years their net spend is around £100mil , Abramovich hasn’t “lent” the club money for a while now.


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## 4LEX (Feb 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			It's done by the armpit line

Is everyone's arm the same length? Would crouch be unfairly treated as his arms were freakishly long.

Sterling has t rex arms does he get an advantage.
		
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I never mentioned arm length, merely questioned why is sleeve length was now the defining point? I'd agree with armpit line.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Tierney had absolutely no view of that one today; to give it would have been a best guess.
		
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I agree on this occasion, but the VAR ref has no such excuse, but Tierney is a coward most weeks.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Over the last 5 years their net spend is around £100mil , Abramovich hasn’t “lent” the club money for a while now.
		
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Come on Phil, wake up and smell the coffee.

Chelsea stockpiled many, many players over the years and were happy to keep them on loan after loan etc, but something changed a few years ago. Many of the sales helped to bring that nett spend down, along with the transfer ban.

There are statistics and then there is "understanding".

No doubt Chelsea's juggernaut spending isnt what it was 5-15 years ago. If they are self sufficient over the next 10 years and are challenging at the top end, fair enough, but the last 5 years is still as a result of what went on before.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I never mentioned arm length, merely questioned why is sleeve length was now the defining point? I'd agree with armpit line.
		
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The rule is armpit length, however sleeve is roughly armpit length . It's easy to spot . That's what they seem to go with

Plenty of pictures of how the law works about


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## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2022)




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## ColchesterFC (Feb 26, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



View attachment 41462

Click to expand...

Why's it only handball on the left arm and not on the right arm?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Come on Phil, wake up and smell the coffee.

Chelsea stockpiled many, many players over the years and were happy to keep them on loan after loan etc, but something changed a few years ago. Many of the sales helped to bring that nett spend down, along with the transfer ban.

There are statistics and then there is "understanding".

No doubt Chelsea's juggernaut spending isnt what it was 5-15 years ago. If they are self sufficient over the next 10 years and are challenging at the top end, fair enough, but the last 5 years is still as a result of went on before.
		
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🤷‍♂️ I’m not sure what point you think you are arguing against - you have backed up my point

Yes it is a result of what went on before but the point was clear , they don’t rely on the money from Abramovich anymore - the club has about £1bn debt to him from the first 10 years etc but for a good number of years now they don’t get money from him which was the point - hence why him stepping out won’t change things and the club will be able to regenerate their funds


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## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Why's it only handball on the left arm and not on the right arm? 

Click to expand...

Glad I helped clear things up. 😖


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 26, 2022)

4LEX said:



			What if the player has a long sleeve shirt on? 

Click to expand...

The refs just guess then.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️ I’m not sure what point you think you are arguing against - you have backed up my point

Yes it is a result of what went on before but the point was clear , they don’t rely on the money from Abramovich anymore - the club has about £1bn debt to him from the first 10 years etc but for a good number of years now they don’t get money from him which was the point - hence why him stepping out won’t change things and the club will be able to regenerate their funds
		
Click to expand...

Yes, they havent spent as much in the last 5 years as before but to say that they don't rely on him (whether financial, or other) is naive, at best. Also, like City we don't know if his finance still enters the club via other ways, do we?

They have won trophies in the last 5 years but maybe not at the same rate as before and them challenging most years means that not a lot of criticism has come his/their way, but lets see what would happen if they didnt get champions league for a few years or they had a few downturns.


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## HowlingGale (Feb 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We had this a few weeks back. How many love sleeve shirts do you see now? You mainly see players with long sleeve compression tops under a short sleeve shirt
		
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At least 3 Man City players had long sleeve shirts on today. Silva, Foden and another.

Is there a rule about how long the sleeves are? If not using the length of the sleeve is the most moronic rule ever written.


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 26, 2022)

Chatting with a big Liverpool Fan at our Golf club today and said expect you are pleased the Champions league Final has  been moved to Paris. His comment was yes, I booked a hotel in Paris yesterday. He  is in the supporters top tier, not sure exactly what that mens but perhaps 3000.

Expect Liverbirdie, Stuart C and Liverpool Phil have already booked hotels!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

HowlingGale said:



			At least 3 Man City players had long sleeve shirts on today. Silva, Foden and another.

Is there a rule about how long the sleeves are? If not using the length of the sleeve is the most moronic rule ever written.
		
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Foden was not wearing long sleeve

If you look closely it's a compression top under his short sleeve shirt 
Most of them are now

Shirt line isn't the law it's armpit line
However that falls in line with the sleeve of a short sleeve shirt


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

HowlingGale said:



			At least 3 Man City players had long sleeve shirts on today. Silva, Foden and another.

Is there a rule about how long the sleeves are? If not using the length of the sleeve is the most moronic rule ever written.
		
Click to expand...





Please note also silva and foden both short sleeve with compression tops

I can't remember the last proper long sleeve shirt I've seen.

Edit Ronaldo apparently is one of the few left who prefer a long sleeve shirt


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## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2022)

Little research @HowlingGale shows that stones is the 3rd. Again compression top not a long sleeve shirt. Fodens more clear in this photo


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## HowlingGale (Feb 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 41465


Little research @HowlingGale shows that stones is the 3rd. Again compression top not a long sleeve shirt. Fodens more clear in this photo
		
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I😂 I stand corrected. Need to get sky again. Don't have HD TV.
You got an account with Getty Images?


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 26, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Chatting with a big Liverpool Fan at our Golf club today and said expect you are pleased the Champions league Final has  been moved to Paris. His comment was yes, I booked a hotel in Paris yesterday. He  is in the supporters top tier, not sure exactly what that mens but perhaps 3000.

Expect Liverbirdie, Stuart C and Liverpool Phil have already booked hotels!
		
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I spoke to the missus 2 nights ago, if we get to the final may stay in Eastern France and do the battlefield tours etc,just go to Paris for the day/night, sleep in the car like we did in Madrid.

The hotels will be up to £1k a night, not that UEFA will care.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️ I’m not sure what point you think you are arguing against - you have backed up my point

Yes it is a result of what went on before but the point was clear , they don’t rely on the money from Abramovich anymore - the club has about £1bn debt to him from the first 10 years etc but for a good number of years now they don’t get money from him which was the point - hence why him stepping out won’t change things and the club will be able to regenerate their funds
		
Click to expand...

£1b debt that’s a massive amount of money invested in a foreign club from a man ….. better leave it there. 

I’m out


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Chatting with a big Liverpool Fan at our Golf club today and said expect you are pleased the Champions league Final has  been moved to Paris. His comment was yes, I booked a hotel in Paris yesterday. He  is in the supporters top tier, not sure exactly what that mens but perhaps 3000.

Expect Liverbirdie, Stuart C and Liverpool Phil have already booked hotels!
		
Click to expand...

What’s the difference between a big Liverpool fan and a Liverpool fan?

I was contemplating booking flights to Paris for £42 return, a load of lads we go with have jumped on.  I realised we’ve already booked to go away a few days before.

CL finals are becoming stupidly expensive, Face Value £400 tickets in Kiev for example. I’ll judge it nearer the time what we do  providing we get there. I’ve already got my eye on a Faro to Paris return flight for me and my boy 🤫🤫


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2022)

HowlingGale said:



			I😂 I stand corrected. Need to get sky again. Don't have HD TV.
You got an account with Getty Images?
		
Click to expand...

In your defence, the compression top is exactly the same colour as their shirt, there is no edging on the shirt showing where it ends, it looks like one solid sleeve. Cunning little blighters 😠. 

If refs are going to work on the sleeve theory then there has to be an ability to distinguish where it ends. Anyway, I'm with Frank's 3yr old on this one 😄


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## Stuart_C (Feb 27, 2022)

League cup final day today, to Evertonians its just another Sunday😉


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## HowlingGale (Feb 27, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In your defence, the compression top is exactly the same colour as their shirt, there is no edging on the shirt showing where it ends, it looks like one solid sleeve. Cunning little blighters 😠.

If refs are going to work on the sleeve theory then there has to be an ability to distinguish where it ends. Anyway, I'm with Frank's 3yr old on this one 😄
		
Click to expand...

I watched some MOTD again this morning and still couldn't tell. 😁
I stand by my statement. Barmy rule.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2022)

HowlingGale said:



			At least 3 Man City players had long sleeve shirts on today. Silva, Foden and another.

Is there a rule about how long the sleeves are? If not using the length of the sleeve is the most moronic rule ever written.
		
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Am not sure about the other two, but am sure Foden had a base layer on the same colour as his shirt.oops a bit late 😁


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			League cup final day today, to Evertonians its just another Sunday😉
		
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Am not sure you will know directions Stu 👍😉


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## nickjdavis (Feb 27, 2022)

Watched MOTD last night and all I can say is that the decision (or non decision) was an utter farce. When footballing laws override basic common sense then something has gone clearly wrong.

My armpit doesn't extend half way down my upper arm. Any short sleeved shirt I have ever worn has sleeves that extend way below the armpit.

If they are boing to use the armpit line then, rather than use it to define a line across the upper arm when the arm is hanging down by the side of the body, they should use a vertical line with the arm extended out at 90 degrees to the body. The arm should be defined as the area of the limb that can be independently moved away from the torso.

Maybe we should start using Aussie Rules style kits which are more like tank tops/sleeveless vests. If the ball touches skin its handball....would be a lot fairer that what we see now.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 27, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Watched MOTD last night and *all I can say is that the decision (or non decision) was an utter farce*. When footballing laws override basic common sense then something has gone clearly wrong.

My armpit doesn't extend half way down my upper arm. Any short sleeved shirt I have ever worn has sleeves that extend way below the armpit.

If they are boing to use the armpit line then, rather than use it to define a line across the upper arm when the arm is hanging down by the side of the body, they should use a vertical line with the arm extended out at 90 degrees to the body. The arm should be defined as the area of the limb that can be independently moved away from the torso.

Maybe we should start using Aussie Rules style kits which are more like tank tops/sleeveless vests. If the ball touches skin its handball....would be a lot fairer that what we see now.
		
Click to expand...

The decision was not a farce, it was absolutely correct; the law on the other hand...


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## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			The decision was not a farce, it was absolutely correct; the law on the other hand... 

Click to expand...

This is what gets me everytime. people blame VAR and the officials but the Law is poor. same every time its needs changing but has been in 2 years now and people still arent used to it


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 27, 2022)

Bielsa gone.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60529015


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## Billysboots (Feb 27, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Bielsa gone.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60529015

Click to expand...

Overdue, many would say. I accept Leeds have had their share of injuries to key players, but Bielsa’s stubborn insistence on going man-to-man, despite glaring evidence that it doesn’t work, led to his demise.

Leeds needed to act before it’s too late.


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## srixon 1 (Feb 27, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Bielsa gone.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60529015

Click to expand...

Should have happened 3 or 4 games ago.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Overdue, many would say. I accept Leeds have had their share of injuries to key players, but Bielsa’s stubborn insistence on going man-to-man, despite glaring evidence that it doesn’t work, led to his demise.

Leeds needed to act before it’s too late.
		
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I liked Leeds football, and they clearly played it well 

However second season syndrome, plus injuries hit you need to change your approach or risk it all 

Problem I see is that Leeds are so drilled in his way can a new manager change it in time to save them from the drop? I hope so .. Leeds are a good team and deserve to be at the top level


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## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			Should have happened 3 or 4 games ago.
		
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5 games in Feb, 1 draw 4 losses 20 goals let in 5 scored 

Simply too much


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 27, 2022)

When Bielsa was at a Club in Argentina his team were not playing well and some fans came to his house to confront him. He came to the door with a shot gun and they left rapidly. Just a warning!


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## BiMGuy (Feb 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Overdue, many would say. I accept Leeds have had their share of injuries to key players, but Bielsa’s stubborn insistence on going man-to-man, despite glaring evidence that it doesn’t work, led to his demise.

Leeds needed to act before it’s too late.
		
Click to expand...




pauljames87 said:



			I liked Leeds football, and they clearly played it well

However second season syndrome, plus injuries hit you need to change your approach or risk it all

Problem I see is that Leeds are so drilled in his way can a new manager change it in time to save them from the drop? I hope so .. Leeds are a good team and deserve to be at the top level
		
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srixon 1 said:



			Should have happened 3 or 4 games ago.
		
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pauljames87 said:



			5 games in Feb, 1 draw 4 losses 20 goals let in 5 scored

Simply too much
		
Click to expand...

Look at our February record for the previous 3 seasons. It’s almost identical apart from the number of goals conceded.

The only people who wanted him gone were fans of other teams, pundits and Leeds fans who joined in the recent hype.

I don’t know of a single long standing fan who thinks this was the right thing to do. Many like me are disgusted that the club has sacked him.

I would rather be in the Championship with Bielsa as our manager then the Premier League without.

The board need to shoulder the responsibility for the lack of recruitment. I think they are in for a rather hostile reception at the next home game.



3offTheTee said:



			When Bielsa was at a Club in Argentina his team were not playing well and some fans came to his house to confront him. He came to the door with a shot gun and they left rapidly. Just a warning!
		
Click to expand...

It was a hand grenade


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			The only people who wanted him gone were fans of other teams, pundits and Leeds fans who joined in the recent hype.

I don’t know of a single long standing fan who thinks this was the right thing to do. Many like me are disgusted that the club has sacked him.

I would rather be in the Championship with Bielsa as our manager then the Premier League without.



It was a hand grenade
		
Click to expand...

Problem is with him at the helm you would almost defo be gone, but then you would also lose phillips .. raphinha and prob bamford 

without them would you stay up in the championship?


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## BiMGuy (Feb 27, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Problem is with him at the helm you would almost defo be gone, but then you would also lose phillips .. raphinha and prob bamford

without them would you stay up in the championship?
		
Click to expand...

We’ll almost definitely go down now. I’d be more confident of it turning around by sticking with the manager.

Raph will be gone anyway. We’ll just get more for him if we stay up. 

Philips was 50/50 either way. Some of the others would stay. I’m sure we’ll be fine in the Championship. It’s more entertaining down there anyway 😀


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## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			We’ll almost definitely go down now. I’d be more confident of it turning around by sticking with the manager.

Raph will be gone anyway. We’ll just get more for him if we stay up.

Philips was 50/50 either way. Some of the others would stay. I’m sure we’ll be fine in the Championship. It’s more entertaining down there anyway 😀
		
Click to expand...

Agree the champ is more entertaining

I see us returning for Phillips and selling rice..unless signing Phillips shows him we are serious about progressing but I doubt it


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## nickjdavis (Feb 27, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			The decision was not a farce, it was absolutely correct; the law on the other hand... 

Click to expand...




pauljames87 said:



			This is what gets me everytime. people blame VAR and the officials but the Law is poor. same every time its needs changing but has been in 2 years now and people still arent used to it
		
Click to expand...

I did qualify my statement by immediately saying..._When footballing laws override basic common sense then something has gone clearly wrong._

The decision was a farce because it is supported by a farcical law.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2022)

Big victory today , should have buried more chances but ground the win out


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## Bazzatron (Feb 27, 2022)

If you want to compete with the top 6, you have to spend like them. Not sign a load of kids and send them to Grasshoppers. 
Team needed changing after Thursday and the squad just isn't deep enough.


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

VAR have just released the footage used yesterday


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			The decision was not a farce, it was absolutely correct; the law on the other hand... 

Click to expand...

Is an ass 👍


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			This is what gets me everytime. people blame VAR and the officials but the Law is poor. same every time its needs changing but has been in 2 years now and people still arent used to it
		
Click to expand...

Hand on heart. Did it really need changing to “A Shirt sleeve is the cut off point between handball or not”. Did it heck.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Look at our February record for the previous 3 seasons. It’s almost identical apart from the number of goals conceded.

The only people who wanted him gone were fans of other teams, pundits and Leeds fans who joined in the recent hype.

I don’t know of a single long standing fan who thinks this was the right thing to do. Many like me are disgusted that the club has sacked him.

I would rather be in the Championship with Bielsa as our manager then the Premier League without.

The board need to shoulder the responsibility for the lack of recruitment. I think they are in for a rather hostile reception at the next home game.



It was a hand grenade
		
Click to expand...

The BBC  is the worst of the lot for posting re sacking of managers.


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## putterman60 (Feb 27, 2022)

Mendys save back in 1973


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2022)

Ooof, that looked painful.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			Ooof, that looked painful.
		
Click to expand...

Surprised that the ref wasn't told to go and look at the screen for that one. Keita knows he's left the foot in there and has gone down to try and take attention away from how bad his challenge was.


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2022)

.................. and then Salah misses a sitter!


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## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			.................. and then Salah misses a sitter! 

Click to expand...

how is that a sitter against a keeper like that aswell?


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## Rlburnside (Feb 27, 2022)

Looks to be something wrong with Van Dijk to me seems to be just walking through the game, I’m wondering if he’s carring a injury or not fully fit


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			how is that a sitter against a keeper like that aswell?
		
Click to expand...

Only the 'keeper to beat and he's supposed to be about the best striker in the world, certainly according to some on here.


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			Only the 'keeper to beat and he's supposed to be about the best striker in the world, certainly according to some on here.
		
Click to expand...

Every striker is allowed to miss the occasional chance


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## pokerjoke (Feb 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			Only the 'keeper to beat and he's supposed to be about the best striker in the world, certainly according to some on here.
		
Click to expand...

One season wonder mate


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## BrianM (Feb 27, 2022)

Wow VAR made the right decision 😂😂


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			Every striker is allowed to miss the occasional chance
		
Click to expand...

Correct.


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## paddyc (Feb 27, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Wow VAR made the right decision 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

MMMM soft!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			Every striker is allowed to miss the occasional chance
		
Click to expand...

unless you don’t have one 🤔😳😁 wish we could afford one 😁


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## fundy (Feb 27, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498004879490666498
wheres that checking badge VAR meme


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2022)

fundy said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498004879490666498
wheres that checking badge VAR meme 

Click to expand...

Glad someone has posted that, what actually is measured to show Lukaku offside.


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## fundy (Feb 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Glad someone has posted that, what actually is measured to show Lukaku offside.
		
Click to expand...


think were back to shirt sleeves again lol

if they insist on these decisions at least make it boots only to save the bs


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2022)

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CafJP4pgbhj/?utm_medium=copy_link


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## pokerjoke (Feb 27, 2022)

That’s a big big call


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## BrianM (Feb 27, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s a big big call
		
Click to expand...

Makes it exciting for the neutral though 😂😂
I reckon Klopp would of liked to off taken on Allison if he had subs left.


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Makes it exciting for the neutral though 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Something has to!
It hasn't been a great watch, to be fair.


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

First time lukaku has been onside


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## fundy (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			First time lukaku has been onside
		
Click to expand...


werner will still be flagged off for his


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

fundy said:



			werner will still be flagged off for his 

Click to expand...

He’d miss the lower tier


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

How many times does the ref want to tell the Chelsea keeper to not dick about


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

Perfect ending for a knob


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## fundy (Feb 27, 2022)

Tuchel has just won the award for worst substitution ever haha

Pens saved 0/11
Pens scored 0/1


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s a big big call
		
Click to expand...

...................... and the wrong one.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 27, 2022)

Isnt karma a bitch


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			How many times does the ref want to tell the Chelsea keeper to not dick about
		
Click to expand...

I was at the league cup final when he refused to come off. He was a plank then,  nowt has changed tonight.


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## Piece (Feb 27, 2022)

Incoming....🥅⬆️⚽️

😉


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

It’s hard on the player who misses but in this case 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Oh and 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2022)

Well done Liverpool. Guarantees their presence the in the Europa League!


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## Golfmmad (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			It’s hard on the player who misses but in this case 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Oh and 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

KARMA! 
Quite the best penalty shoot out I've ever seen.


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## AmandaJR (Feb 27, 2022)

Karma. You arrogant little so and so. Got your comeuppance.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 27, 2022)

Made my day that miss 😂😂


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Karma. You arrogant little so and so. Got your comeuppance.
		
Click to expand...

Comeuppance is a great word that doesn’t get used enough


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## Swango1980 (Feb 27, 2022)

Awful game, I assumed Salah wasn't playing until I saw him take a penalty. Werner is horrific. A game for the defenders.


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Made my day that miss 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

And mine


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Awful game, I assumed Salah wasn't playing until I saw him take a penalty. Werner is horrific. A game for the defenders.
		
Click to expand...

Werner will probably miss the team bus


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## hairball_89 (Feb 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Made my day that miss 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

And mine! 

The Hendo shuffle is the greatest sight known to man. No contest!


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## AmandaJR (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			And mine
		
Click to expand...

Mine too - even though I wanted Chelski to win!


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## Golfmmad (Feb 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Awful game, I assumed Salah wasn't playing until I saw him take a penalty. Werner is horrific. A game for the defenders.
		
Click to expand...

I only watched the 2nd half and thought it was a good watch - as a neutral - well I was entertained! 
Great result for Liverpool!


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## Baldy Bouncer (Feb 27, 2022)

BOOOOM!!!  1 down 3 to go


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## Rlburnside (Feb 27, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Mine too - even though I wanted Chelski to win!
		
Click to expand...

Chelski to win go wash your mouth out 😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Looks to be something wrong with Van Dijk to me seems to be just walking through the game, I’m wondering if he’s carring a injury or not fully fit
		
Click to expand...

He was imperious throughout - outstanding

Was a great game overall for a 0-0 , some how should we say talking points for VAR

Diaz is going to be a star , Chelsea missed some great chances , Mendy was just out of this world , outstanding keeper

Not sure why bringing on Kepa - the penalties were just outstanding from both sets until that last penalty

Kepa was too busy at times trying the mind games but his penalty was shocking - never nice

But another trophy in the cabinet - hopefully more to come this season

Hasselbank" I think he got confused and thought it was a goal kick "


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## fundy (Feb 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Chelski to win go wash your mouth out 😂😂
		
Click to expand...


are they still chelski in the light of recent events?


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure why bringing on Kepa - the penalties were just outstanding from both sets until that last penalty
Kepa was too busy at times trying the mind games but *his penalty was shocking - never nice*

Click to expand...

I'd normally agree ......................................... but this time it definitely was nice.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He was imperious throughout - outstanding

Was a great game overall for a 0-0 , some how should we say talking points for VAR

Diaz is going to be a star , Chelsea missed some great chances , Mendy was just out of this world , outstanding keeper

Not sure why bringing on Kepa - the penalties were just outstanding from both sets until that last penalty

Kepa was too busy at times trying the mind games but his penalty was shocking - never nice

But another trophy in the cabinet - hopefully more to come this season
		
Click to expand...

Watch the highlights and you will see at least 3 times he was at fault for Chelsea getting through, if Chelsea finishing was better they would have won and the pundits would have been highlighting his mistakes. 

Unusual for him as he’s normally one of the best. 

Glad you won though 👍


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## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

It’s times like this Fish is missed


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## fundy (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			It’s times like this Fish is missed
		
Click to expand...

hes using words on twitter that would get Fragger all hot under the collar again on here haha


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## Imurg (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			It’s times like this Fish is missed
		
Click to expand...

Over on twitter...he's not a happy bunny...


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			It’s times like this Fish is missed
		
Click to expand...

But think how much work Frag would need to do to get rid of the x*!&%%% words


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## Rlburnside (Feb 27, 2022)

FIFA ordered Russia to play their matches as Football federation of Russia in neutral country with no flags or anthems. 

Gutless and corrupt


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## greenone (Feb 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Made my day that miss 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Jonny Wilkinson would've been proud of that one, would've missed a 2nd goal


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## fundy (Feb 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			FIFA ordered Russia to play their matches as Football federation of Russia in neutral country with no flags or anthems.

Gutless and corrupt
		
Click to expand...


Poland and Sweden already refusing to play them if it comes to it


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## AmandaJR (Feb 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			FIFA ordered Russia to play their matches as Football federation of Russia in neutral country with no flags or anthems.

Gutless and corrupt
		
Click to expand...

Wonder what they'll do when Countries rightly refuse to play them.


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			It’s times like this Fish is missed
		
Click to expand...

Fish is always missed.


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			FIFA ordered Russia to play their matches as Football federation of Russia in neutral country with no flags or anthems.

Gutless and corrupt
		
Click to expand...

If they can find anyone willing to play!


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2022)

fundy said:



			Poland and Sweden already refusing to play them if it comes to it
		
Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60548685

Typical of Fifa to fudge the issue. Even the FA have come out with a definitive statement https://www.skysports.com/football/...future-due-to-invasion-of-ukraine-fa-confirms


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## Swango1980 (Feb 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			FIFA ordered Russia to play their matches as Football federation of Russia in neutral country with no flags or anthems.

Gutless and corrupt
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter. Unless they are scheduled to play friendlies against Belarus, Syria or Pakistan, I doubt anyone else will play them.


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## greenone (Feb 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			If they can find anyone willing to play!
		
Click to expand...

Or someone willing to host them.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Doesn't matter. Unless they are scheduled to play friendlies against Belarus, Syria or Pakistan, I doubt anyone else will play them.
		
Click to expand...

It does matter a lot , the people that run FIFA are disgraceful and they should ban and isolate Russia completely. 

All about the money again. 

Your right about how few countries will be unwilling to play them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2022)

FIFA will never ban them - they don’t have the balls,

All sports governing bodies should be banning all Russian sporting teams from competing at any level


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 27, 2022)

Thought it was a good game.
Not the best finishing though until the pens they were great. ( Fabinhos was class)
Some good football from both sides.
Chelsea manager needs to explain the offside rule to his strikers.
Strange decision to sub Mendy ( what a keeper) mom for me .
Bit flat in extra time ,but I hate pens.
Great day for Kelleher one he won’t forget, neither will Chelsea’s keeper.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498023680697323523
Touch of class from them both


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FIFA will never ban them - they don’t have the balls,

All sports governing bodies should be banning all Russian sporting teams from competing at any level
		
Click to expand...

They already have the mess of the WC qualifiers to deal with with Poland and Sweden refusing to play. F1 has taken their stand but you wonder where it leaves Haas and their driver https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...h-f1-team-along-with-russian-sponsor-uralkali. Sport needs to take action and banning Russia is the only way in each psort but is it fair to penalise the sportsmen and women for something out their control. How feasible is it all to compete under a neutral flag like the athletes in the olympics


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## Stuart_C (Feb 27, 2022)

Another Great day at Wembley with my lad, winning mickey mouse cups stand us in good stead for the big ones 😉

Kepa🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			It’s times like this Fish is missed
		
Click to expand...

I'd sleep with one eye open tonight  He must not be mentioned here according to a certain someone who i will refrain from Memtioning for the fear of further sanctions.....


----------



## srixon 1 (Feb 27, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I only watched the 2nd half and thought it was a good watch - as a neutral - well I was entertained!
Great result for Liverpool!
		
Click to expand...

I had to listen on the radio as I was driving back from Yorkshire. I hope I never have to listen to a Jonathon Woodgate commentary ever again. He was like a hyper active kid in a sweet shop.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Am not sure you will know directions Stu 👍😉
View attachment 41468

Click to expand...

Thanks Tashy, fortunately i know the route to Wembley with my eyes shut😉


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498031124811026435


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2022)




----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Thanks Tashy, fortunately i know the route to Wembley with my eyes shut😉
		
Click to expand...

You could of borrowed my season ticket. 😉

Congrats me man.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 27, 2022)

Luis Diaz has won as many trophies in 27 days than Everton have in 27yrs😆


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2022)

It's so sweet that on the day of winning a trophy, Everton are still filling the minds of Liverpool fans 🤣🤣


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## Jensen (Feb 27, 2022)

Abramovich time to buy a keeper who


fundy said:



			are they still chelski in the light of recent events? 

Click to expand...

Of course they are, all their money comes from The Kremlin


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2022)

What a crazy final. Disallowed goals left right and centre. Chelsea fluffed so many good chances to score. Then they sub off their goalie even though he's played an absolute blinder. When they did that we were saying "imagine if he makes no saves and then missed the crucial one.. haha" and he only went and did exactly that! You couldn't make it up, no one would believe you. Unreal. 

Edit: One on VAR - I've said it so many times but it's a shame that a forward can't be level with the defence anymore. Some small aspect of his person will always be past the magical line. Today, Lukaku's left bicep was offside. Farce.


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## chrisd (Feb 27, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			They already have the mess of the WC qualifiers to deal with with Poland and Sweden refusing to play. F1 has taken their stand but you wonder where it leaves Haas and their driver https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...h-f1-team-along-with-russian-sponsor-uralkali. Sport needs to take action and banning Russia is the only way in each psort but is it fair to penalise the sportsmen and women for something out their control. How feasible is it all to compete under a neutral flag like the athletes in the olympics
		
Click to expand...

Yes it's fair to ban the sports people, as well as Russian holiday makers, university students etc etc in fact everyone and everything, after all they did vote Putin in (well they didn't but that's their fault) and the public ultimately are the ones that need to stand up against the regime.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 28, 2022)

Respect to Klopp for all the comments and reasons why he picked Kelleher for the game. 

Deserved to win for that reason alone imo.


----------



## Neilds (Feb 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Another Great day at Wembley with my lad, winning mickey mouse cups stand us in good stead for the big ones 😉

Kepa🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

It's funny how fans always deride certain cup competitions until they win them - then it's a real trophy 

Will be cheering on the the Mighty Millers in the Papa John's Trophy semi final next week, the next step on the way to a League and Cup double


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498037036560928777
😁😁🏆🏆


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			What a crazy final. Disallowed goals left right and centre. Chelsea fluffed so many good chances to score. Then they sub off their goalie even though he's played an absolute blinder. When they did that we were saying "imagine if he makes no saves and then missed the crucial one.. haha" and he only went and did exactly that! You couldn't make it up, no one would believe you. Unreal. 

Edit: One on VAR - I've said it so many times but it's a shame that a forward can't be level with the defence anymore. Some small aspect of his person will always be past the magical line. Today, *Lulaku's left bicep was offside.* Farce.
		
Click to expand...

was it his shirt sleeve part of the bicep though 😳😡😁


----------



## Neilds (Feb 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			was it his shirt sleeve part of the bicep though 😳😡😁
		
Click to expand...

Shirt sleeves is handball not offside - keep up!!!


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Shirt sleeves is handball not offside - keep up!!!

Click to expand...

Does Stockley park know that 😳😁


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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Shirt sleeves is handball not offside - keep up!!!

Click to expand...

It's the same thing though. To be given offside a part of the body you can play the ball with must be in an offside position. Hence the ruling for the hand ball is the same as the ruling for offsides.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 28, 2022)

Best 0-0 Ive watched in years yesterday, fair play to Liverpool and Chelsea.

Be great to see that game re-played in the champions league final!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Best 0-0 Ive watched in years yesterday, fair play to Liverpool and Chelsea.

*Be great to see that game re-played in the champions league final!*

Click to expand...

Have you been drinking? No, just no


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## Bdill93 (Feb 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Have you been drinking? No, just no 

Click to expand...

Id always rather see two English teams in the final? Wouldnt you?


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Id always rather see two English teams in the final? Wouldnt you?
		
Click to expand...

No. It feels like another domestic cup final, just played abroad.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Id always rather see two English teams in the final? Wouldnt you?
		
Click to expand...

Not necessarily those two, one of them definitely not .

Joking apart, I tihnk it is good to have one European team in the final to make it feel like a European match. If it is just 2 English teams then it is not that much different to a regular league or domestic cup game.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 28, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			No. It feels like another domestic cup final, just played abroad.
		
Click to expand...




Lord Tyrion said:



			Not necessarily those two, one of them definitely not .

Joking apart, I tihnk it is good to have one European team in the final to make it feel like a European match. If it is just 2 English teams then it is not that much different to a regular league or domestic cup game.
		
Click to expand...

They have to beat the rest to get there though? Personally I'd just rather see our league proven as the strongest in Europe. Thats achieved through dominance in the CL.


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## Bazzatron (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Id always rather see two English teams in the final? Wouldnt you?
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely not.


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## Beezerk (Feb 28, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Absolutely not.
		
Click to expand...

Always ends up a snooze fest, I’d much rather have it an English team vs European team in the final, at least then I can shout for the English team (unless it’s Liverpool of course 😂😉).


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## Bazzatron (Feb 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Always ends up a snooze fest, I’d much rather have it an English team vs European team in the final, at least then I can shout for the English team (unless it’s Liverpool of course 😂😉).
		
Click to expand...

See maybe I'm the weird one then. I'd support the foreign team.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 28, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			See maybe I'm the weird one then. I'd support the foreign team.
		
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You are not alone, depending on which English team. There are 2-3 where I am definitely shouting for someone else.


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## Beezerk (Feb 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are not alone, depending on which English team. There are 2-3 where I am definitely shouting for someone else.
		
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Really? I do find that odd. I could understand Liverpool but who else? Tranmere? 😂


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## Bazzatron (Feb 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are not alone, depending on which English team. There are 2-3 where I am definitely shouting for someone else.
		
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It's a part of football and rivalry for me. We have a nightly phone in on local radio and there's always someone who says, "I want all the Midlands teams to do well." 🤮🤮🤮


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Really? I do find that odd. I could understand Liverpool but who else? Tranmere? 😂
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool, just obvious really
Man Utd, grew up in a solid Man Utd supporting area. Unbearable
Chelsea, less dislikeable than they used to be, the whole Mourinho, Terry, Drogba group were horrible, so I can waver with them now.

You obviously would not cheer Sheff Utd, would you want Barnsley or Rotherham to win a cup? (not sure who else would come in to your realm, so many teams around there)


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## Beezerk (Feb 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Liverpool, just obvious really
Man Utd, grew up in a solid Man Utd supporting area. Unbearable
Chelsea, less dislikeable than they used to be, the whole Mourinho, Terry, Drogba group were horrible, so I can waver with them now.

You obviously would not cheer Sheff Utd, would you want Barnsley or Rotherham to win a cup? (not sure who else would come in to your realm, so many teams around there)
		
Click to expand...

Not so much Sheff Utd but I'd be happy for my mates who follow them. It's different with Barnsley and Rotherham, I don't really see them as rivals so I would definitely shout for them in a final, I would any Yorkshire team apart from Leeds.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Id always rather see two English teams in the final? Wouldnt you?
		
Click to expand...

Not in a million years - they are always horrific. 


Bazzatron said:



			See maybe I'm the weird one then. I'd support the foreign team.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t think it will be a case of supporting the foreign team but certainly wouldn’t ever want another English team to win


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## Neilds (Feb 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Not so much Sheff Utd but I'd be happy for my mates who follow them. It's different with Barnsley and *Rotherham, I don't really see them as rivals* so I would definitely shout for them in a final, I would any Yorkshire team apart from Leeds.
		
Click to expand...

You weren't saying that the other week !!!


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## Beezerk (Feb 28, 2022)

Neilds said:



			You weren't saying that the other week !!!

Click to expand...

The annoying neighbours 😂😂😂


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## Neilds (Feb 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			The annoying neighbours 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

We'll be out of your hair in May, we're moving


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## Beezerk (Feb 28, 2022)

Neilds said:



			We'll be out of your hair in May, we're moving 

Click to expand...

We’ll see you come the following May no doubt 🪀


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 28, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			See maybe I'm the weird one then. I'd support the foreign team.
		
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I won't automatically support the foreign team, but I'll choose which team I'm actually going to support based on who is in it.

I love the way that fans who are quite happy to throw bricks, bottles, cans and punches at opposition fans at a domestic cup final then expect you to support them against a foreign team.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's so sweet that on the day of winning a trophy, Everton are still filling the minds of Liverpool fans 🤣🤣
		
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Every chance i get to have a dig at Everton i'll take, it never gets boring 😁😁

Though if you think it makes me obsessed then you spin it any way that suits you buddy😉


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## Bdill93 (Feb 28, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			It's a part of football and rivalry for me. We have a nightly phone in on local radio and there's always someone who says, "I want all the Midlands teams to do well." 🤮🤮🤮
		
Click to expand...

Id get Liverpool fans not wishing United or City any success, but I see no harm in fans outside of the top 6 wishing that English clubs do well in Europe. I wouldnt support birmingham city if they made it, and I dont exactly sit and cheer for the English sides- id just still rather our league looked stronger than all others.


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## BiMGuy (Feb 28, 2022)

I couldn’t care less who wins the European cup competitions. Just as long as it’s not Liverpool, ManU or Chelsea


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 28, 2022)

Lovely;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498236409072738308


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## Piece (Feb 28, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Lovely;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498236409072738308

Click to expand...



I hope for his sake there was a closed off area below. Somehow that's unlikely.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 28, 2022)

Piece said:





I hope for his sake there was a closed off area below. Somehow that's unlikely.
		
Click to expand...

I think we both know who was underneath him.  And I think we both know if it was a Chelsea player Sky would have it on a 24 hour loop by now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Every chance i get to have a dig at Everton i'll take, it never gets boring 😁😁

Though if you think it makes me obsessed then you spin it any way that suits you buddy😉
		
Click to expand...

Keep filling your boots. It gives us all a chuckle


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## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I think we both know who was underneath him.  And I think we both know if it was a Chelsea player Sky would have it on a 24 hour loop by now.
		
Click to expand...

Who was underneath him?

There's no need to be spitting like that at all but that  picture you've posted  looks 100x worse than it is.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 28, 2022)

Piece said:





I hope for his sake there was a closed off area below. Somehow that's unlikely.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498280335125225477

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498262115576164352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498278158092718090


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## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2022)

How the offside rule is interpreted is a complete joke. Offside is about gaining an advantage.

It should only be measured by the position of the feet, how can you get in a postion that gains an advantage otherwise? Its impossible. 

Armpits, shirt sleeves, diving headers etc  can all be used by the defenders to stop a cross etc.


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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Id always rather see two English teams in the final? Wouldnt you?
		
Click to expand...

Definitely not - because that means one of them has to win it.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Definitely not - because that means one of them has to win it. 

Click to expand...

You're spurs, what hate do you have of Liverpool? Really?

I understand not backing Chelsea or Arsenal... but honestly I couldnt care less if Liverpool won the next 4 CL's, they've already done it 6 times... 

Actually I'd quite enjoy City not winning it for that length of time but thats just because F*** Jack Grealish


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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You're spurs, what hate do you have of Liverpool? Really?

I understand not backing Chelsea or Arsenal... but honestly I couldnt care less if Liverpool won the next 4 CL's, they've already done it 6 times...

Actually I'd quite enjoy City not winning it for that length of time but thats just because F*** Jack Grealish 

Click to expand...

Their fans are awful. That's enough for me.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Their fans are awful. That's enough for me.
		
Click to expand...


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## Bazzatron (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You're spurs, what hate do you have of Liverpool? Really?

I understand not backing Chelsea or Arsenal... but honestly I couldnt care less if Liverpool won the next 4 CL's, they've already done it 6 times...

Actually I'd quite enjoy City not winning it for that length of time but thats just because F*** Jack Grealish 

Click to expand...

You not have Utd fans at your school giving it loads through the 90s? If you're old enough obviously. 
Ours was full of them, I was fully Bayern Munich in '99. So that was fun.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 28, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			You not have Utd fans at your school giving it loads through the 90s? If you're old enough obviously.
Ours was full of them, I was fully Bayern Munich in '99. So that was fun.
		
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Yeah plenty of United fans growing up but none that are more than armchair fans. I work in a school now and all those kids are now City fans.. not United!


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## Rlburnside (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You're spurs, what hate do you have of Liverpool? Really?

I understand not backing Chelsea or Arsenal... but honestly I couldnt care less if Liverpool won the next 4 CL's, they've already done it 6 times...

Actually I'd quite enjoy City not winning it for that length of time but thats just because F*** Jack Grealish 

Click to expand...

Chelsea are not really a English team anyway so I would support the other team 😂😂😂 

As long as it’s not Man City or Arsenal.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 28, 2022)




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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Yeah plenty of United fans growing up but none that are more than armchair fans. I work in a school now and all those kids are now City fans.. not United!
		
Click to expand...

There was one single kid at my school who was a Blackburn fan. Clearly picked the wrong bandwagon to jump on when they won the league.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 28, 2022)

Looks like FIFA are going to ban Russia now


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## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			You not have Utd fans at your school giving it loads through the 90s? If you're old enough obviously.
Ours was full of them, I was fully Bayern Munich in '99. So that was fun.
		
Click to expand...

There was only 1 in our school and he was from about the age of 6 when we went to junior school early 80's so he wasnt  classed as a hanger on. His auld fella was a proper manc.

Everyone else was either a red or blue.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Liverpool, just obvious really
Man Utd, grew up in a solid Man Utd supporting area. Unbearable
Chelsea, less dislikeable than they used to be, the whole Mourinho, Terry, Drogba group were horrible, so I can waver with them now.

You obviously would not cheer Sheff Utd, would you want Barnsley or Rotherham to win a cup? (not sure who else would come in to your realm, so many teams around there)
		
Click to expand...

Strange you would cheer a club on whose owner is a Russian. Atm.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 28, 2022)

I moved from a school where the choice was only Liverpool or Everton to a school that was Liverpool or Man U.

I hated school.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I moved from a school where the choice was only Liverpool or Everton to a school that was Liverpool or Man U.

I hated school.
		
Click to expand...

Hahaha so after a choice of 3 you chose them? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Bazzatron (Feb 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			There was only 1 in our school and he was from about the age of 6 when we went to junior school early 80's so he wasnt  classed as a hanger on. His auld fella was a proper manc.

Everyone else was either a red or blue.
		
Click to expand...

There were loads at school, with it being the Midlands it was to be expected.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Hahaha so after a choice of 3 you chose them? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

We don’t get to choose Stu. We’re born. 😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 28, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Looks like FIFA are going to ban Russia now
		
Click to expand...

Confirmed. All clubs out as well so Spartak Moscow out of the Europa league https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/60560567


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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2022)

Leeds have appointed some American bloke. Relegation confirmed!


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Leeds have appointed some American bloke. Relegation confirmed!
		
Click to expand...

Not sure - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60544602

Seems to have a modicum of pedigree with Salzburg and was at RB Leipzig. Big Sam must be gutted to have missed out on another relegation fight


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Leeds have appointed some American bloke. Relegation confirmed!
		
Click to expand...


Ori in "not heard of a manager outside of England" shocker lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Leeds have appointed some American bloke. Relegation confirmed!
		
Click to expand...

Jesse Marsch - did well with Salzburg , a big fan of high intensity attacking football but also tries to be solid - was reported to be taking over in the summer 

Think Leeds will end up staying up because there are other teams worse


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## Swango1980 (Feb 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Jesse Marsch - did well with Salzburg , a big fan of high intensity attacking football but also tries to be solid - was reported to be taking over in the summer

Think Leeds will end up staying up because there are other teams worse
		
Click to expand...

I guess Leeds will save money on salaries if they don't need to employ a translator?


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## IainP (Feb 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not necessarily those two, one of them definitely not .

*Joking apart, I tihnk it is good to have one European team in the final to make it feel like a European match*. If it is just 2 English teams then it is not that much different to a regular league or domestic cup game.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry LT, couldn't resist, have their been many Champions League finals with only one European team playing? 😉 😉😁


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## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You're spurs, what hate do you have of Liverpool? Really?

I understand not backing Chelsea or Arsenal... but honestly I couldnt care less if Liverpool won the next 4 CL's, they've already done it 6 times...

Actually I'd quite enjoy City not winning it for that length of time but thats just because F*** Jack Grealish 

Click to expand...

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...ity-fan-hug/&usg=AOvVaw0_ph8xnw6oYFOpMzM-Y-e2


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 28, 2022)

His philosophy here - https://www.skysports.com/football/...ng-his-journey-in-football-and-his-philosophy

He also coached Haaland and he seems to have worked out ok


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 28, 2022)

IainP said:



			Sorry LT, couldn't resist, have their been many Champions League finals with only one European team playing? 😉 😉😁
		
Click to expand...

It's a fair cop 😄.


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Jesse Marsch - did well with Salzburg , a big fan of high intensity attacking football but also tries to be solid - was reported to be taking over in the summer

Think Leeds will end up staying up because there are other teams worse
		
Click to expand...


Phillips and Bamford close to fitness, get them back and theyll have enough to stay up youd think. Plenty of Leeds fans not happy to see Bielsa go after where hes got them though


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## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			His philosophy here - https://www.skysports.com/football/...ng-his-journey-in-football-and-his-philosophy

He also coached Haaland and he seems to have worked out ok
		
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😳 Haaland to Leeds 😁


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## Dando (Feb 28, 2022)

They’re just getting the match ball back after Kepa’s penalty


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## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2022)

Black and white ball, that’s got to be  Chris waddles ball. Still looking for Kepas to come down.😂

Edit to say Ave seen a photo today showing a Liverpool fan knicked / borrowed the ball.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Black and white ball, that’s got to be  Chris waddles ball. Still looking for Kepas to come down.😂

Edit to say Ave seen a photo today showing a Liverpool fan knicked / borrowed the ball.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah the young kid caught the ball 😁

In his defence it’s an illegal offence to throw any objects onto a football pitch in Britain.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah the young kid caught the ball 😁
		
Click to expand...

Am not sure who had it, just showed a photo on a site I was perusing. Gotta be worth a few quid. 😁


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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ori in "not heard of a manager outside of England" shocker lol
		
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Name me one good American manager! I'll wait...


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Name me one good American manager! I'll wait... 

Click to expand...


Jesse Marsch


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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Jesse Marsch 

Click to expand...

Please, anybody could win the (checks notes) Austrian league with Red Bull Salzburg!


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Please, anybody could win the (checks notes) Austrian league with Red Bull Salzburg!
		
Click to expand...


must be like the reverse of Spurs and the premier league 

we'll see with Marsch, think Leeds were very limited in terms of options once they chose to replace Bielsa because of the specific style of play they are used to

one things for sure it cant be any worse than hiring Bruce based on the first hour of watching West Brom tonight


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## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			must be like the reverse of Spurs and the premier league 

we'll see with Marsch, think Leeds were very limited in terms of options once they chose to replace Bielsa because of the specific style of play they are used to

one things for sure it cant be any worse than hiring Bruce based on the first hour of watching West Brom tonight
		
Click to expand...

It always amazes me how failed managers keep getting jobs. I’d love to sit in and listen to the conversations these clubs hierarchy have. It’s like they totally disregard their performances in previous jobs.


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## BiMGuy (Feb 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ori in "not heard of a manager outside of England" shocker lol
		
Click to expand...

Must be tricky supporting one of the blandest football clubs there is.


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## Cherry13 (Feb 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It always amazes me how failed managers keep getting jobs. I’d love to sit in and listen to the conversations these clubs hierarchy have. It’s like they totally disregard their performances in previous jobs.
		
Click to expand...

There’s a lot of smug Newcastle fans on Twitter tonight, mostly aimed at the talksport pundits who stuck up for Bruce and said he should not have been sacked from his gig at toon. 
This season newcastle have had their worst run of games without winning, and their best run of not losing in over a decade all in the same season.  I’ll let you guess who was manager for each run.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			There’s a lot of smug Newcastle fans on Twitter tonight, mostly aimed at the talksport pundits who stuck up for Bruce and said he should not have been sacked from his gig at toon.
This season newcastle have had their worst run of games without winning, and their best run of not losing in over a decade all in the same season.  I’ll let you guess who was manager for each run.
		
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British managers get an easier ride and support by our xenophobic press. Some even get lauded as something they’re not.


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## Slime (Feb 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			British managers get an easier ride and support by our xenophobic press. Some even get lauded as something they’re not.
		
Click to expand...

A bit like some of the players.


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## greenone (Feb 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			British managers get an easier ride and support by our xenophobic press. Some even get lauded as something they’re not.
		
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Only some? I'd say the majority, I mean woy and fat Sam were both England managers.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			A bit like some of the players.
		
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Well we know English players get overhyped by the press dont we..


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## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2022)

greenone said:



			Only some? I'd say the majority, I mean woy and fat Sam were both England managers.
		
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How Hodgson ever got the England job i'll never know, even based on tournament results (not inc qualifiers)he never deserved 2 tournaments nevermimd 3.

His opening line in the press conference the day after they'd crashed out of Euro '16   summed him up " i dont know what i'm doing here".🤦🏼‍♂️

Allardyce was another one. His mates in the media definitely got him that job.  

You know its bad when Lallana saves your bacon....🤣 

Allardyce being exposed was a blessing.


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## Foxholer (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess Leeds will save money on salaries *if they don't need to employ a translator*?
		
Click to expand...

Might still need to for a while - until the club get used to exprssions like 'the whole ball o' wax', physicality, bi-weekly, least worst option and many others!


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			There’s a lot of smug Newcastle fans on Twitter tonight, mostly aimed at the talksport pundits who stuck up for Bruce and said he should not have been sacked from his gig at toon.
This season newcastle have had their worst run of games without winning, and their best run of not losing in over a decade all in the same season.  I’ll let you guess who was manager for each run.
		
Click to expand...

Ryan Fraser was interviewed on Motd after their win and asked 'what has Eddie Howe changed?' 'Everything ' came the reply. He then gave a list of what Howe has improved. They then went back to the studio and Lineker asked Shearer about it, Shearer being a big mate of Bruce as well as a Toon legend of course. I don't think I have seen Alan concentrate so hard whilst giving an answer 😆. It was a masterclass in avoiding the crux of the question whilst still answering part of it.

I know Fraser wasn't getting a game under Bruce, he is now a regular under Howe, so there may be no love lost. However, the displays are worlds apart, Newcastle now have a method to their play, they have a unity, drive and lord above, Joelinton is now no longer the worst player ever to pull on a PL shirt. He is actually pretty decent 😆. Toon fans have every right to say 'told you so'.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ryan Fraser was interviewed on Motd after their win and asked 'what has Eddie Howe changed?' 'Everything ' came the reply. He then gave a list of what Howe has improved. They then went back to the studio and Lineker asked Shearer about it, Shearer being a big mate of Bruce as well as a Toon legend of course. I don't think I have seen Alan concentrate so hard whilst giving an answer 😆. It was a masterclass in avoiding the crux of the question whilst still answering part of it.

I know Fraser wasn't getting a game under Bruce, he is now a regular under Howe, so there may be no love lost. However, the displays are worlds apart, Newcastle now have a method to their play, they have a unity, drive and lord above, Joelinton is now no longer the worst player ever to pull on a PL shirt. He is actually pretty decent 😆. Toon fans have every right to say 'told you so'.
		
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure some in hear were saying Howe was a bad manager not long ago. Surely that assessment wasn't flawed?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			How Hodgson ever got the England job i'll never know, even based on tournament results (not inc qualifiers)he never deserved 2 tournaments nevermimd 3.

His opening line in the press conference the day after they'd crashed out of Euro '16   summed him up " i dont know what i'm doing here".🤦🏼‍♂️

Allardyce was another one. His mates in the media definitely got him that job. 

You know its bad when Lallana saves your bacon....🤣

Allardyce being exposed was a blessing.
		
Click to expand...

Aside from Hodgson being well connected within UEFA with his coaching, I think getting little Fulham to a European final definitely gave him a gold tarnish with the FA and so it became inevitable that as an FA yes man who wouldn't rock the boat he'd get the gig given the lack of candidates at that time.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm pretty sure some in hear were saying Howe was a bad manager not long ago. Surely that assessment wasn't flawed?
		
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Ha ha. It's early days of course and I don't think anyone is saying he is the new Pep. He certainly has transformed Newcastle from being absolute relegation certainties to being half decent. He has also done it without reverting to an Allardyce template of survival, ugly but highly successful. They are starting to play decent football, he is getting the most out of his players. He is certainly getting more from them all than Bruce was and they are now quite watchable. That is not a bad start. (I agree with your confusion, does this mean some of the forum pundits could be mistaken )


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## Slime (Mar 1, 2022)

greenone said:



			Only some? I'd say the majority, I mean *woy* and fat Sam were both England managers.
		
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It's Roy, not Woy.


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## Orikoru (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm pretty sure some in hear were saying Howe was a bad manager not long ago. Surely that assessment wasn't flawed?
		
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I thought he was the wrong manager for a relegation scrap given how many goals his teams concede. Not many teams escape relegation by coming out swinging and trying to outscore opponents. Still though, they have enjoyed something of a new manager bounce. And they've had a nice run of fixtures where they've been able to beat the teams around them (Leeds, Everton, Brentford). Fair play to them, it looks like they'll be alright now, and the third team to go down could be out of Brentford or Leeds.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjDp4PVn6P2AhUJhlwKHWKPAhwQtwJ6BAgJEAI&url=https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/17569946/jack-grealish-man-city-fan-hug/&usg=AOvVaw0_ph8xnw6oYFOpMzM-Y-e2

Click to expand...

He was and has always been great with fans. I think due to his family more than anything. 

Doesnt mean I like the guy though.  Dirty sell out


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## Jensen (Mar 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ryan Fraser was interviewed on Motd after their win and asked 'what has Eddie Howe changed?' 'Everything ' came the reply. He then gave a list of what Howe has improved. They then went back to the studio and Lineker asked Shearer about it, Shearer being a big mate of Bruce as well as a Toon legend of course. I don't think I have seen Alan concentrate so hard whilst giving an answer 😆. It was a masterclass in avoiding the crux of the question whilst still answering part of it.

I know Fraser wasn't getting a game under Bruce, he is now a regular under Howe, so there may be no love lost. However, the displays are worlds apart, Newcastle now have a method to their play, they have a unity, drive and lord above, Joelinton is now no longer the worst player ever to pull on a PL shirt. He is actually pretty decent 😆. Toon fans have every right to say 'told you so'.
		
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Before Shearer even opened his mouth, no doubt he did his usual “tilt head back and look down his nose” posture.
Arrogant individual.


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## Cherry13 (Mar 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ha ha. It's early days of course and I don't think anyone is saying he is the new Pep. He certainly has transformed Newcastle from being absolute relegation certainties to being half decent. He has also done it without reverting to an Allardyce template of survival, ugly but highly successful. They are starting to play decent football, he is getting the most out of his players. He is certainly getting more from them all than Bruce was and they are now quite watchable. That is not a bad start. (I agree with your confusion, does this mean some of the forum pundits could be mistaken )
		
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Just the other day someone referenced his defensive record with Bournemouth as a reason why they thought we would go down…. Just started writing this and seen a few other messages come through. I’ll tap out.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Before Shearer even opened his mouth, no doubt he did his usual “tilt head back and look down his nose” posture.
Arrogant individual.
		
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I watched the recent Overlap Live episode with Neville, Keane and Carragher (good watch). Keane was asked if he found it difficult to work with any pundits after the rivalry he had with them during his career. He said, on the most part, no. However, there were one or 2 that it just didn't work with. He identified one pundit he didn't get on with, Alan Shearer.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			British managers get an easier ride and support by our xenophobic press. Some even get lauded as something they’re not.
		
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In general, it is probably best to separate pride / hope in fellow country men, and a prejudice against people from another country. I'm sure there are plenty of examples where the press have been full of praise for foreign managers, and many many examples where the press have been critical of British managers. However, we live in Britain, so it should be no surprise that you are going to see many familiar British faces in management, managers who will have gone through good and bad times. It is more to do with geography than actual xenophobia. I am guessing in most other countries, most managers will be natives of that country? They are more connected to the footballing and broader culture of that country.

Besides, even if such accusations are going to be made against the press in general, perhaps it should be asked of society in general? It wasn't that long ago the following statement was made on this forum:


"Leeds have appointed some American bloke. Relegation confirmed"


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## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			In general, it is probably best to separate pride / hope in fellow country men, and a prejudice against people from another country. I'm sure there are plenty of examples where the press have been full of praise for foreign managers, and many many examples where the press have been critical of British managers. However, we live in Britain, so it should be no surprise that you are going to see many familiar British faces in management, managers who will have gone through good and bad times. It is more to do with geography than actual xenophobia. I am guessing in most other countries, most managers will be natives of that country? They are more connected to the footballing and broader culture of that country.

Besides, even if such accusations are going to be made against the press in general, perhaps it should be asked of society in general? It wasn't that long ago the following statement was made on this forum:


"Leeds have appointed some American bloke. Relegation confirmed"



Click to expand...

English football is more European than English these days.  English football, at the top level, has very little culture/tradition left. 

It seems to me that the merry go round of failed British managers seem to keep getting jobs after jobs. I dont see what these chief execs do who repeatedly employ the same old names. 

Bruce,Allardyce,Curbishley,Strachan, Hughes, Pardew etc etc 

Until recently, every next mangaer list was the same old washed up failures for job after job.

You're spot on, xenophobia exists in modern day society so its no surprise its in football.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2022)

Mike Riley is going down a dangerous road apologising to chairmen and managers.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2022)

It is generalisations as much as anything. We go through phases of being in awe of managers from particular countries, as though they must all be brilliant. We have gone through Spanish managers, Italian, Germans are currently on trend. The reality is that they are as hit and miss as others but one does well and chairman all pile in. We haven't had a successful US manager in the PL so therefore they must be useless, until the Leeds manager does well at which point others will pile in........


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## greenone (Mar 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mike Riley is going down a dangerous road apologising to chairmen and managers.
		
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I don't know how they've made such a mess of var. Would it help having an ex player and a referee in the var room?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mike Riley is going down a dangerous road apologising to chairmen and managers.
		
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VAR was always going to cause issues when you have one of the worst Refs in history running it - might as well have Rennie helping him out


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mike Riley is going down a dangerous road apologising to chairmen and managers.
		
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Better to apologise than to blindly claim a decision was correct when it clearly was not. The game is not going to be replayed, we still don't have any points from the match, but at least now we can accept that the refs have acknowledged a mistake was made. We move on to the next game.......


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## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2022)

greenone said:



			I don't know how they've made such a mess of var. Would it help having an ex player and a referee in the var room?
		
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No. It would only make it worse.


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## Jimaroid (Mar 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Better to apologise than to blindly claim a decision was correct when it clearly was not. The game is not going to be replayed, we still don't have any points from the match, but at least now we can accept that the refs have acknowledged a mistake was made. We move on to the next game.......
		
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It is a slippery slope though. It sets a precedent to all the clubs now to expect more acknowledgement of mistakes week to week. Project that situation forward and how long before we see clubs demanding compensation.

I know a better VAR is coming but it's causing more issues than it solves in its current form.

Bizarre really. I don't understand why anything was said here at all, it's a situation that is probably better dealt with by saying nothing and moving on.


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## GB72 (Mar 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Better to apologise than to blindly claim a decision was correct when it clearly was not. The game is not going to be replayed, we still don't have any points from the match, but at least now we can accept that the refs have acknowledged a mistake was made. We move on to the next game.......
		
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Trouble is you then have an admission of error and liability. May seem far fetched but lets say that team is then religated and that point would have kept them up. Could you then be looking at a law suit based on an admitted error on the part of the ref costing a club tens of millions of pounds. If there is any common sense, there will be provisions in the competition terms and conditions absolving all referees from any legal liability but the situation is not impossible.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 1, 2022)

greenone said:



			I don't know how they've made such a mess of var. Would it help having an ex player and a referee in the var room?
		
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Like who, Paul Merson? Alan Shearer?

Referees get plenty of criticism when they make a mistake, and get accused of being arrogant by fans and the media (including by many ex player pundits) when they do not come out and admit their mistake. Ironic really, because when Mike Riley finally does admit a mistake, he is accused of going down a slippery slope (which I agree with, thus indicating it is better to keep quiet if you are a ref, and ignore the ex-players).

If an ex-player was to be in charge of VAR, I bet they'd likely be seen as even more arrogant then the current officials. They'll still make mistakes, and no doubt fans will start questioning their club loyalties, or point back to times in their playing past that question that players personality.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Better to apologise than to blindly claim a decision was correct when it clearly was not. The game is not going to be replayed, we still don't have any points from the match, but at least now we can accept that the refs have acknowledged a mistake was made. We move on to the next game.......
		
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Whats the threshold for apologies? 

He could be phoning 10 managers  every weekend apologising for some of the stuff we've witnessed  in recent seasons. 

He is the problem imo. The standard of refereeing in England is horrific. 

VAR has been misused and its all down to Riley. Why didnt  Kavanagh tell Tierney to check the screen and see if he thinks it's a pen? 

Because theyre not allowed to under his orders. 

 I'm certain had he done so he changes his mind and gives the pen.

Here's a stat for you, when a ref has been  referred to the monitor this season, 0 decisions have been upheld. On the balance of probability that cant  right.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ryan Fraser was interviewed on Motd after their win and asked 'what has Eddie Howe changed?' 'Everything ' came the reply. He then gave a list of what Howe has improved. They then went back to the studio and Lineker asked Shearer about it, Shearer being a big mate of Bruce as well as a Toon legend of course. I don't think I have seen Alan concentrate so hard whilst giving an answer 😆. It was a masterclass in avoiding the crux of the question whilst still answering part of it.

I know Fraser wasn't getting a game under Bruce, he is now a regular under Howe, so there may be no love lost. However, the displays are worlds apart, Newcastle now have a method to their play, they have a unity, drive and lord above, Joelinton is now no longer the worst player ever to pull on a PL shirt. He is actually pretty decent 😆. Toon fans have every right to say 'told you so'.
		
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And spending a load of money on new signings didn't have a big effect?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 1, 2022)

Is the standard of English referees really that bad when you compare them to the continent. Which countries are using VAR? From what I've seen from the CL and Europa Leagues on TV there aren't many stand out referees anywhere


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## 3offTheTee (Mar 1, 2022)

Sure are friends N. of The Border are aware that Scotland play Ukraine in the play off for The World Cup in just over 3 weeks’ time. Hope everything has changed by then but expect it will be an extremely emotional night.


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## GB72 (Mar 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Whats the threshold for apologies?

He could be phoning 10 managers  every weekend apologising for some of the stuff we've witnessed  in recent seasons.

He is the problem imo. The standard of refereeing in England is horrific.

VAR has been misused and its all down to Riley. Why didnt  Kavanagh tell Tierney to check the screen and see if he thinks it's a pen?

Because theyre not allowed to under his orders.

I'm certain had he done so he changes his mind and gives the pen.

Here's a stat for you, when a ref has been  referred to the monitor this season, 0 decisions have been upheld. On the balance of probability that cant  right.
		
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And here is one problem, refs are being told how to use VAR. Not putting it up as any form of ideal but in rugby the ref can apply the tools he has at his disposal how he wants. If he wants it on screen, he asks for it, if he would rather rely on his own judgement and ignore the video, he can. He specifies what he wants looked at and the video ref can give guidance but the final decision is with the ref having looked at what evidence he wants. The video is there to help the ref and not absolve him of having to make decisions.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Whats the threshold for apologies?

He could be phoning 10 managers  every weekend apologising for some of the stuff we've witnessed  in recent seasons.

He is the problem imo. The standard of refereeing in England is horrific.

VAR has been misused and its all down to Riley. Why didnt  Kavanagh tell Tierney to check the screen and see if he thinks it's a pen?

Because theyre not allowed to under his orders.

I'm certain had he done so he changes his mind and gives the pen.

*Here's a stat for you, when a ref has been  referred to the monitor this season, 0 decisions have been upheld. On the balance of probability that cant  right.*

Click to expand...

This may be the thing I sort of disagree with. Technically, the VAR ref is only likely to ask the ref to check the screen if they "know" he made the incorrect decision, not if they are on the fence and may be leaning one side of it. That is with all the camera angles and speeds they can watch the incident with. So, the probability is that the onfield ref will have to reverse nearly every original decision they made, when called to the screen. If they don't, they are saying the VAR was wrong, and it brings into question why the VAR even thought it was an obvious error in the first place.

The key question is, why do the VAR refs NOT seek a review for some of the most obvious mistakes, like the City handball? Was it a poor technicality set out, such as the shirt sleeve debate? Or, did he just have a nightmare, and other VAR refs would have asked for the review?

I still often wonder if the review could simply be initiated by the team management, where they get one or 2 reviews a half (although offside could still be permanently judged by VAR)? I appreciate they might use it to their advantage at times, to waste time at end of a game? Maybe things can be done to mitigate that, or just accept it. At least it gives some power back to the football teams, rather than having to rely on the 3rd party refs not making mistakes or being able to spot them


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## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is the standard of English referees really that bad when you compare them to the continent. Which countries are using VAR? From what I've seen from the CL and Europa Leagues on TV there aren't many stand out referees anywhere
		
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I dont know what the continent has to do with the standard of PL refereeing.

Watch the CL and EL properly and you'll see the difference in the use of VAR.


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## greenone (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Like who, Paul Merson? Alan Shearer?

Referees get plenty of criticism when they make a mistake, and get accused of being arrogant by fans and the media (including by many ex player pundits) when they do not come out and admit their mistake. Ironic really, because when Mike Riley finally does admit a mistake, he is accused of going down a slippery slope (which I agree with, thus indicating it is better to keep quiet if you are a ref, and ignore the ex-players).

If an ex-player was to be in charge of VAR, I bet they'd likely be seen as even more arrogant then the current officials. They'll still make mistakes, and no doubt fans will start questioning their club loyalties, or point back to times in their playing past that question that players personality.
		
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No I was thinking of recently retired players not the back in my day brigade that are more interested in making headlines.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			This may be the thing I sort of disagree with. Technically, the VAR ref is only likely to ask the ref to check the screen if they "know" he made the incorrect decision, not if they are on the fence and may be leaning one side of it. That is with all the camera angles and speeds they can watch the incident with. So, the probability is that the onfield ref will have to reverse nearly every original decision they made, when called to the screen. If they don't, they are saying the VAR was wrong, and it brings into question why the VAR even thought it was an obvious error in the first place.

The key question is, why do the VAR refs NOT seek a review for some of the most obvious mistakes, like the City handball? Was it a poor technicality set out, such as the shirt sleeve debate? Or, did he just have a nightmare, and other VAR refs would have asked for the review?

I still often wonder if the review could simply be initiated by the team management, where they get one or 2 reviews a half (although offside could still be permanently judged by VAR)? I appreciate they might use it to their advantage at times, to waste time at end of a game? Maybe things can be done to mitigate that, or just accept it. At least it gives some power back to the football teams, rather than having to rely on the 3rd party refs not making mistakes or being able to spot them
		
Click to expand...


Using the most recent one on saturday, there is no way Tierney gives that as  pen without guessing. 

Surely he says something along the lines of to VAR "it looks like hes chested it but im behind it" 

Tierney sees that and gives it 99.9% certain of it.

Again, the rules of use of VAR by the on field ref are set by Riley. He is the problem. His use and rules are the problem.

Until he changes tack or goes then nothing will improve. 

Ive been against VAR because i knew with this lot of referees theyll still get it wrong.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2022)

greenone said:



			No I was thinking of recently retired players not the back in my day brigade that are more interested in making headlines.
		
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Still no.  Ex players generally arent the brightest of people. You've only got to listen to some of the "analysis".


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## greenone (Mar 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Still no.  Ex players generally arent the brightest of people. You've only got to listen to some of the "analysis".
		
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At least they understand the game. That can't be said of most of the referees at the moment who seem to know the minutia of the laws, but are completely clueless when it comes to applying the laws with any common sense.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 1, 2022)

greenone said:



			No I was thinking of recently retired players not the back in my day brigade that are more interested in making headlines.
		
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Merson and Shearer were recently retired once upon a time. Can you imagine Carragher or Neville were to go on to be VAR refs immediately after retirement as a player? They'd be instantly hated by many opposing fans. As a pundit, a person can sort of get away with it and maybe their personality and analysis can win fans over. But, if they were a football official, that would be another issue entirely. I think the same could be said for many big players who played for big teams, or players with a questionable disciplinary record in their playing days.

Most referees (or probably all) have probably been interested in refereeing from a young age. Been a referee at many different levels, gaining experience and qualifications. All whilst footballers have been busy playing football (and focusing on their social media following). So, I don't agree that footballers are better qualified at being a referee, and their comments "that is a decision by a person who hasn't played the game" is pure arrogance. Refs make mistakes, and I'm sure many of those mistakes actually come about by the silly technical advice they are given, trying to make every possible incident a "black or white decision". So, for example, if they HAVE been told to follow the sleeve rule for handball, then they'll spend too much attention on this, and less on their own common sense judgement.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			And spending a load of money on new signings didn't have a big effect?
		
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His biggest buy is the Brazilian that has barely got on the pitch. The rest were well within the Bruce sphere of spending. Trippier £12m, Burn, £13m, Wood was a panic that is not working but they have that to burn. Targett was a loan signing. Newcastle and Howe will go nuts in the summer but at this stage the turnaround is not really due to big spending. 

You also have to look at the change in performances from a number of players who looked Championship level under Bruce. Howe has got them performing.


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## Piece (Mar 1, 2022)

greenone said:



			At least they understand the game. That can't be said of most of the referees at the moment who seem to know the minutia of the laws, but are completely clueless when it comes to applying the laws with any common sense.
		
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They may understand the game, but many do not know the laws *properly*. Can't have an ex-player who isn't officially qualified in football laws, making a "judgement". I'd love to see these ex-players try 90mins in the official's shoes. They'd wet their pants.

As Stu_C said above, some of the "expert" analysis I've heard, particularly recently, just simply isn't correct.

For Riley to apologise is embarrassing and incorrect. Where does it stop?

VAR is fine IMHO, it's just the law itself (and the lack of understanding of it), that's the issue. Of course VAR can be refined, but no VAR system in any sport will be 100%.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			It is a slippery slope though. It sets a precedent to all the clubs now to expect more acknowledgement of mistakes week to week. Project that situation forward and how long before we see clubs demanding compensation.

I know a better VAR is coming but it's causing more issues than it solves in its current form.

Bizarre really. I don't understand why anything was said here at all, it's a situation that is probably better dealt with by saying nothing and moving on.
		
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I'll just reply to this post as it was the first reply, but take it as a blanket reply to those who have made a similar point. I don't mind an apology, an admission that a mistake was made. They are human, accept that. Some decisions can be wrong but by the smallest of margins, a judgement call you might say. In those instances there is no need to say anything. When a decision has clearly been wrong, why not hold your hands up. I think managers, players, fans, would have more respect for that. The alternative is that you look and think 'really, you still think that was right ?'

I don't buy the compensation claim angle. Decisions not going your way has always been a part of sport, all sports, you just have to accept what happens. No court would look at that, I doubt governing bodies would allow it to happen, it is part and parcel of the game, any game.


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## GB72 (Mar 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll just reply to this post as it was the first reply, but take it as a blanket reply to those who have made a similar point. I don't mind an apology, an admission that a mistake was made. They are human, accept that. Some decisions can be wrong but by the smallest of margins, a judgement call you might say. In those instances there is no need to say anything. When a decision has clearly been wrong, why not hold your hands up. I think managers, players, fans, would have more respect for that. The alternative is that you look and think 'really, you still think that was right ?'

I don't buy the compensation claim angle. Decisions not going your way has always been a part of sport, all sports, you just have to accept what happens. No court would look at that, I doubt governing bodies would allow it to happen, it is part and parcel of the game, any game.
		
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I disagree with the last comment in certain circumstances. Last second of the game and a goal is allowed or a penaty given incorrectly. That can directly correlate to the loss of one or 2 points that could be the difference between relegation or surviving. That is then admitted to being an error. Until that happens, it is a judgement call that can be defended as being your view or interpretation. Once you admit the mistake, that element is removed and you open yourself up to legal action. 

Swap the situation to a car accident, the car in front brakes suddenly and you go into the back of it. You say nothing and the debate about whether it was poor braking or whether you were driving too close remains open. Result is that each insurance company probably covers their own claim. You see how different that is if one party says it was their fault. Suddenly their insurer invalidates the policy for an admission of guilt, the other insurer does not pay out as it is the fault of another driver and then it all ends up in court with personal liability for the costs. Admission of error can be a big thing, especially where tens of millions of pounds are involved.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498313771760201729
He is always a good read of VAR decisions


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## Orikoru (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			In general, it is probably best to separate pride / hope in fellow country men, and a prejudice against people from another country. I'm sure there are plenty of examples where the press have been full of praise for foreign managers, and many many examples where the press have been critical of British managers. However, we live in Britain, so it should be no surprise that you are going to see many familiar British faces in management, managers who will have gone through good and bad times. It is more to do with geography than actual xenophobia. I am guessing in most other countries, most managers will be natives of that country? They are more connected to the footballing and broader culture of that country.

Besides, even if such accusations are going to be made against the press in general, perhaps it should be asked of society in general? It wasn't that long ago the following statement was made on this forum:


"Leeds have appointed some American bloke. Relegation confirmed"



Click to expand...

It's called giving an opinion when we do it though, it's the entire point of a forum. I'm not a shy of giving my opinion, and I'm certainly not afraid of being proved wrong later as it's happened many, many, many times. Water off a duck's back, given that nothing we say here has any consequence whatsoever. Definitely not on a par with national mainstream media.


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## Jimaroid (Mar 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When a decision has clearly been wrong, why not hold your hands up. I think managers, players, fans, would have more respect for that. The alternative is that you look and think 'really, you still think that was right ?'
		
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I agree that’s the morally decent thing to do. Sadly it’s not the way it works when many millions are at stake. And that’s also the reason why I think it could head to an issue of liability and potential compensation. Ultimately these decisions will cost someone and when things get messy investors will look to recoup any way they can.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I disagree with the last comment in certain circumstances. Last second of the game and a goal is allowed or a penaty given incorrectly. That can directly correlate to the loss of one or 2 points that could be the difference between relegation or surviving. That is then admitted to being an error. Until that happens, it is a judgement call that can be defended as being your view or interpretation. Once you admit the mistake, that element is removed and you open yourself up to legal action.

Swap the situation to a car accident, the car in front brakes suddenly and you go into the back of it. You say nothing and the debate about whether it was poor braking or whether you were driving too close remains open. Result is that each insurance company probably covers their own claim. You see how different that is if one party says it was their fault. Suddenly their insurer invalidates the policy for an admission of guilt, the other insurer does not pay out as it is the fault of another driver and then it all ends up in court with personal liability for the costs. Admission of error can be a big thing, especially where tens of millions of pounds are involved.
		
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I wonder, genuinely don't know, if anyone has successfully sued an official or body in a similar way in the past? There must surely be an acceptance that decisions are final and accepted by all parties involved. Equally, there is an acceptance that officials are human and error is part of sport. I hope that never changes but I do fully understand your fears, and those stated by others on this theme


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## Neilds (Mar 1, 2022)

GB72 said:



			And here is one problem, refs are being told how to use VAR. Not putting it up as any form of ideal but in rugby the ref can apply the tools he has at his disposal how he wants. If he wants it on screen, he asks for it, if he would rather rely on his own judgement and ignore the video, he can. He specifies what he wants looked at and the video ref can give guidance but the final decision is with the ref having looked at what evidence he wants. The video is there to help the ref and not absolve him of having to make decisions.
		
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Agree totally with what you are saying.  The referee should be in charge of what VAR looks at and when.  He should ask specific questions as they do in rugby and then make his own decision after clarifying the situation.  What shouldn't happen , as happened in the rugby at the weekend, is the TV screen in the stadium shows a replay of an incident and then the referee decides he wants to have a further look after he let play carry on.


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## fundy (Mar 1, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Agree totally with what you are saying.  *The referee should be in charge of what VAR looks at and when.*  He should ask specific questions as they do in rugby and then make his own decision after clarifying the situation.  What shouldn't happen , as happened in the rugby at the weekend, is the TV screen in the stadium shows a replay of an incident and then the referee decides he wants to have a further look after he let play carry on.
		
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so if the ref completely misses something VAR shouldnt look at it?


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## GB72 (Mar 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			so if the ref completely misses something VAR shouldnt look at it?
		
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Same as rugby, video ref can speak the ref about possible infringements but it is up to the ref if he wants to look at them. Final decision still stays with the ref but his team can advise him throughout. 

Gap in my knowledge though, is it actual premiership refs looking at the footage at VAR as with rugby or, if not, what level of people are there.


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## fundy (Mar 1, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Same as rugby, video ref can speak the ref about possible infringements but it is up to the ref if he wants to look at them. Final decision still stays with the ref but his team can advise him throughout.

Gap in my knowledge though, is it actual premiership refs looking at the footage at VAR as with rugby or, if not, what level of people are there.
		
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cant agree with that at all, in football refs miss plenty completely and need to be told they are being looked at imo

sadly yes its more of the incompetent premier league refs looking at it


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## Swango1980 (Mar 1, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Same as rugby, *video ref can speak the ref about possible infringements but it is up to the ref if he wants to look at them*. Final decision still stays with the ref but his team can advise him throughout.

Gap in my knowledge though, is it actual premiership refs looking at the footage at VAR as with rugby or, if not, what level of people are there.
		
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It would take a brave referee to ignore the VAR, after VAR feels there may be an infringement? That could appear as arrogant, given the VAR was able to view the incident from multiple angles, multiple speeds and multiple times.


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## Foxholer (Mar 1, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			..
I know a better VAR is coming but *it's causing more issues than it solves* in its current form.
...
		
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I totally disagree!


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## Deleted member 3432 (Mar 1, 2022)

Each manager does 45 mins, job sorted as they don't miss anything


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## greenone (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It would take a brave referee to ignore the VAR, after VAR feels there may be an infringement? That could appear as arrogant, given the VAR was able to view the incident from multiple angles, multiple speeds and multiple times.
		
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It happens regularly in rugby. The TMO brings it to the referees attention. They look at it together and make a decision with the referee making the final decision. It also helps that the discussion can be heard by the audience both on TV and in the crowd if you have an earpiece.


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## Jimaroid (Mar 1, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I totally disagree!
		
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You're perfectly entitled to have a different (and wrong) opinion. 

But at least say why?


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## Foxholer (Mar 1, 2022)

GB72 said:



			...
Gap in my knowledge though, is it actual premiership refs looking at the footage at VAR as with rugby or, if not, what level of people are there.
		
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Certainly was in the 'apology' case and I would expect they'd all be P'Ship rated refs.


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## Foxholer (Mar 1, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			You're perfectly entitled to have a different (and wrong) opinion. 

But at least say why?
		
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Because, to me, it's NOT causing more issues than it solves. It's solving far more issues than it's causing! Aka, there was no need to explain!
*Every* referall to the on-field screen has resulted in a correction - so all 'solved' by VAR! The glitch under discussion would have been a glitch without VAR anyway - so not one 'caused' by VAR, even though VAR didn't solve it!


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## GB72 (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It would take a brave referee to ignore the VAR, after VAR feels there may be an infringement? That could appear as arrogant, given the VAR was able to view the incident from multiple angles, multiple speeds and multiple times.
		
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Sorry, did not mean totally ignore it. You will, from time to time, get the video ref in rugby report an incident to the ref and the ref to respond that he saw the incident clearly and had decided no action needed. I suppose that the big difference I see is that the decision is very much always on the pitch and with the ref in rugby and the video is a tool to use as they see fit. Sometimes it seems in football like VAR is reffing the match and the ref is merely communicating what it sees rather than being involved in the process. The standard of refereeing will only get worse the more they can deflect personal responsibilty on to technology. That said, with the investments made, VAR is here to stay and I guess it is down to football to work out how to use it best


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			This may be the thing I sort of disagree with. Technically, the VAR ref is only likely to ask the ref to check the screen if they "know" he made the incorrect decision, not if they are on the fence and may be leaning one side of it. That is with all the camera angles and speeds they can watch the incident with. So, the probability is that the onfield ref will have to reverse nearly every original decision they made, when called to the screen. If they don't, they are saying the VAR was wrong, and it brings into question why the VAR even thought it was an obvious error in the first place.

The key question is, why do the VAR refs NOT seek a review for some of the most obvious mistakes, like the City handball? Was it a poor technicality set out, such as the shirt sleeve debate? Or, did he just have a nightmare, and other VAR refs would have asked for the review?

I still often wonder if the review could simply be initiated by the team management, where they get one or 2 reviews a half (although offside could still be permanently judged by VAR)? I appreciate they might use it to their advantage at times, to waste time at end of a game? Maybe things can be done to mitigate that, or just accept it. At least it gives some power back to the football teams, rather than having to rely on the 3rd party refs not making mistakes or being able to spot them
		
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I think when a full stadium of people all screaming for a pen plus every Everton player giving it a good shout.
The ref had time to go and have a look for himself without VAR telling him to while they looked at it.
Can’t remember if the ball went out of play or not.
Not sure if that’s in the rules, but his view was obstructed by another player but VAR ref no excuse.
Lampard was right he was the only one who thought it was not handball.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I agree that’s the morally decent thing to do. Sadly it’s not the way it works when many millions are at stake. And that’s also the reason why I think it could head to an issue of liability and potential compensation. Ultimately these decisions will cost someone and when things get messy investors will look to recoup any way they can.
		
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If that happens though we will not have any refs.
Who would put themselves through that.
They would need insurance against liability.


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## Jimaroid (Mar 1, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Because, to me, it's NOT causing more issues than it solves. It's solving far more issues than it's causing! Aka, here was no need to explain!
		
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I think you're just taking the contrary view for the sake of wanting an argument.

But I can give a reason why I stand by what I said: Everton might be 6 points and 5 places in the league better off without VAR.

Apart from that biased view, in general I think it's been badly implemented. The technology is immature, the refereeing staff are poor, the laws of the game have been showed to be out of sync with what is being reviewed, inexplicable decisions keep being made, and emotionally it's wrecking the fast paced spirit of football in stadiums and on television.

And another thing. Despite some correct decisions, we still see blatant shirt pulling, holding in the area, foul throws and cynical fouls in every single match that could (and should?) be easily caught by VAR but they are ignored, unchallenged and unpunished. The standard of refereeing has not improved at all, I'd say it's gotten worse, as the decisions are becoming more baffling every week. It is a massively flawed technology in search of a problem and should be binned.


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## GB72 (Mar 1, 2022)

Herein lies a major point. Technology has not, as far as I know, been applied to a game as fast paced and continuous as football. Where it works there is a slower pace and more natural breaks. Maybe the answer is that some sports are simply not suited to video reffing.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



*I think when a full stadium of people all screaming for a pen plus every Everton player giving it a good shout.
The ref had time to go and have a look for himself without VAR telling him to while they looked at it.*
Can’t remember if the ball went out of play or not.
Not sure if that’s in the rules, but his view was obstructed by another player but VAR ref no excuse.
Lampard was right he was the only one who thought it was not handball.
		
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OK, I know I'm a telly clapper, but I do watch the games with the volume up. If a referee was to decide whether or not to check VAR based on fan and player reaction, they'd be at the monitor dozens of times per game. Especially when players and fans realise they can pressure a ref to review something.


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## nickjdavis (Mar 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			so if the ref completely misses something VAR shouldnt look at it?
		
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or in Mike Deans case...if the referee is so far up his own arse with his own sense of self importance that he cant possibly ever make a mistake and will never refer a decision to VAR.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Herein lies a major point. Technology has not, as far as I know, been applied to a game as fast paced and continuous as football. Where it works there is a slower pace and more natural breaks. Maybe the answer is that some sports are simply not suited to video reffing.
		
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Possibly the most sensible thing posted.
But no matter how good the tech.
The City non penalty was human error. A very bad error that’s why most fans can’t belive a PL VAR ref having seen it from all those angles still didn’t give a pen or tell the ref to go have a look.
It’s not the tech it’s the idiots using it.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			OK, I know I'm a telly clapper, but I do watch the games with the volume up. If a referee was to decide whether or not to check VAR based on fan and player reaction, they'd be at the monitor dozens of times per game. Especially when players and fans realise they can pressure a ref to review something.
		
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Yes I get that but I think most refs can tell they have missed something based on the players reaction and the fans.
If the ref sees it then fine just ignore them ,but I don’t think he saw the City handball and went on the VAR refs decision.
If he had gone the monitor when the ball was dead I think he gives that.
Mind you the one there in var didn’t.
I think that is the main problem they are backing each other up even when they are wrong.
The on pitch ref should be in charge and be able to do what he likes including replaying anything he wants to see.
Might take more time but would at least stop what happened with Everton.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I get that but I think most refs can tell they have missed something based on the players reaction and the fans.
If the ref sees it then fine just ignore them ,but I don’t think he saw the City handball and went on the VAR refs decision.
If he had gone the monitor when the ball was dead I think he gives that.
Mind you the one there in var didn’t.
I think that is the main problem they are backing each other up even when they are wrong.
The on pitch ref should be in charge and be able to do what he likes including replaying anything he wants to see.
Might take more time but would at least stop what happened with Everton.
		
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Yes, but you don't know what you don't see. A ref may think they have seen an incident for what it was, and that it is cut and dry. Yet, if there was a huge appeal, they'll wonder what they didn't see. Did they miss something based on their angle? If the ref still doesn't bother reviewing, I can imagine players will harass him for as much as they can get away with, and fans will vent even more fury towards him for not even checking. 

At the moment, that fury is directed towards the VAR guy who is not there to take the abuse. The VAR guy is also at least able to review multiple angles, etc. and go over it multiple times. 

I assume the ref was looking at the Man City handball incident. Maybe his angle was poor, or maybe it happened so quickly and he felt it hit the shoulder. 

If it was only down to him and his use of VAR, he'd really have to.play safe and choose to review the incident. But, he'd also have to review an incident when players appeal after a ball slams into a players chest, are arm that is tucked in close to chest. Just in case what he saw didn't reflect reality from a different angle.

I don't mind it being kept as it is, but it would be nice to hear the ref and VAR chat about the incident. Sometimes it appears the ref is as much in the dark as the fans, unless VAR finally gives him the green light to look at the monitor.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, but you don't know what you don't see. A ref may think they have seen an incident for what it was, and that it is cut and dry. Yet, if there was a huge appeal, they'll wonder what they didn't see. Did they miss something based on their angle? If the ref still doesn't bother reviewing, I can imagine players will harass him for as much as they can get away with, and fans will vent even more fury towards him for not even checking.

At the moment, that fury is directed towards the VAR guy who is not there to take the abuse. The VAR guy is also at least able to review multiple angles, etc. and go over it multiple times.

I assume the ref was looking at the Man City handball incident. Maybe his angle was poor, or maybe it happened so quickly and he felt it hit the shoulder.

If it was only down to him and his use of VAR, he'd really have to.play safe and choose to review the incident. But, he'd also have to review an incident when players appeal after a ball slams into a players chest, are arm that is tucked in close to chest. Just in case what he saw didn't reflect reality from a different angle.

I don't mind it being kept as it is, but it would be nice to hear the ref and VAR chat about the incident. Sometimes it appears the ref is as much in the dark as the fans, unless VAR finally gives him the green light to look at the monitor.
		
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Yes I see your point just thinking out loud atm.
But somethings got to change.
It’s the human error that’s the problem but we had that without VAR.
At least we accepted the ref made a mistake/ missed it.
But the VAR official really dosnt have that excuse and if such a level of human error it there we might as well not have it.


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## adam6177 (Mar 1, 2022)

Just seen the tuchel interview today. He's speaks so well, very impressed with him as a person.

Journalists really are low life sometimes, only interested in headlines and column inches.


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## Foxholer (Mar 1, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I think you're just taking the contrary view for the sake of wanting an argument.
...
		
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Think whatever you want, but I'm not! The brevity of my initial responce, which you didn't need to respond to, should indicate that!
The rest of your post may/may not be right, but is (pretty much) irrelevant to the 'causes more issues than it solves' statement that I responded to.


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## Foxholer (Mar 1, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Herein lies a major point. Technology has not, as far as I know, been applied to a game as fast paced and continuous as football. Where it works there is a slower pace and more natural breaks. Maybe the answer is that some sports are simply not suited to video reffing.
		
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Perhaps. But in this particular case, the pace of the game was irrelevant.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 1, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Just seen the tuchel interview today. He's speaks so well, very impressed with him as a person.

Journalists really are low life sometimes, only interested in headlines and column inches.
		
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Agreed. How many ways did they want him to express that he was appalled by the war?


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## Captainron (Mar 1, 2022)

Spurs 🤣🤣🤣


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## fundy (Mar 1, 2022)

Up the Boro, some cup run this now


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## Jensen (Mar 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			Up the Boro, some cup run this now 

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Fully deserved. Had more fight.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 1, 2022)

What a crock of shite. 

Well done Boro you deserved it.


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## Fromtherough (Mar 1, 2022)

UTB!


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## Jensen (Mar 1, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			What a crock of shite.

Well done Boro you deserved it.
		
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We have no creativity in midfield. Eriksen has never been replaced. We need a player who can open things up and pull the strings. 
I don’t understand why Winks plays, he offers and does nothing, he’s a passenger.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2022)

Good to see the ref making his own decisions with no VAR to worry about.
The game was better without it .
Well done to Borough thought they deserved it.
Some poor finishing though but great goal for the young lad.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			We have no creativity in midfield. Eriksen has never been replaced. We need a player who can open things up and pull the strings.
I don’t understand why Winks plays, he offers and does nothing, he’s a passenger.
		
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Winks had a terrible game far to many sideways and backward passes, your right we need more creative players. 

I’ve said before playing this counter attacking system is ok against the better sides but it was very noticeable that we were far to deep giving Boro more possession and confidence. 

But forgetting about the tactics for a moment our players didn’t show the fight and will to win that the Boro players did. 

Well that’s it for another season.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 2, 2022)




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## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2022)

Anyone else starting to think Conte is just a mediocre manager when he can't buy a whole host of new players??


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 2, 2022)




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## Bdill93 (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Anyone else starting to think Conte is just a mediocre manager when he can't buy a whole host of new players?? 

Click to expand...

Hes not sticking around long anyway


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## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Anyone else starting to think Conte is just a mediocre manager when he can't buy a whole host of new players?? 

Click to expand...

It’s ok blaming the manager but who has replaced Ericsson. Who is the creative player. Winks is stealing a living  . unfortunately you cannot play City every week 😁


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## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			It’s ok blaming the manager but who has replaced Ericsson. Who is the creative player. Winks is stealing a living  . unfortunately you cannot play City every week 😁
		
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Well, we bought Ndombele, he turned out to be a lazy tosser. We bought Lo Celso who basically did nothing. Brought in Bryan Gil who was promptly loaned out 6 months later. We tried to bring in replacements but they just didn't work out. This is what happens when you don't pay top buck for already world class players. Even back when Eriksen arrived in the first place it was only £12m, so that was one that _did_ pay off.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Well, we bought Ndombele, he turned out to be a lazy tosser. We bought Lo Celso who basically did nothing. Brought in Bryan Gil who was promptly loaned out 6 months later. We tried to bring in replacements but they just didn't work out. *This is what happens when you don't pay top buck for already world class players*. Even back when Eriksen arrived in the first place it was only £12m, so that was one that _did_ pay off.
		
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Or you bring in a decent coach that improves the players you already have too.. Been a while since you had one of those too


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## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Or you bring in a decent coach that improves the players you already have too.. Been a while since you had one of those too
		
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Yeah his name was Pochettino, we sacked him though.


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## GB72 (Mar 2, 2022)

Again, remember I have a limited football knowledge, but a certain number of modern 'top class' managers do annoy me (maybe this should be a random irritation). It seems that they put forward their pedigree or winning things but those wins only come on the back of a budget the size of of some countries GDP to bring in a significant number of world class players to play in the only system they want to play. What happened to the old fashioned idea of a manager coming in and developing and improving the players that he has, finding a system that works for the existing playing personnel etc. Currently it seems like a manager comes in, says 'right we are playing 4-3-3' or whatever system is the system of the day and then brazenly admits that the team will not be good until he has a few transfer windows to buy in players who can actually play in the system he wants to play.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah his name was Pochettino, we sacked him though. 

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Did stagnate a bit though to be fair, but a lot of teams do after losing a big final. If you really had to sack him you just needed a fresh face with similar ideology. 

Instead you went Mourinho - which always ends badly.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 2, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Again, remember I have a limited football knowledge, but a certain number of modern 'top class' managers do annoy me (maybe this should be a random irritation). It seems that they put forward their pedigree or winning things but those wins only come on the back of a budget the size of of some countries GDP to bring in a significant number of world class players to play in the only system they want to play. What happened to the old fashioned idea of a manager coming in and developing and improving the players that he has, finding a system that works for the existing playing personnel etc. Currently it seems like a manager comes in, says 'right we are playing 4-3-3' or whatever system is the system of the day and then brazenly admits that the team will not be good until he has a few transfer windows to buy in players who can actually play in the system he wants to play.
		
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Its a slower route to success if you are cash rich. 

You dont get time in modern football, its win now or be fired.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 2, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Did stagnate a bit though to be fair, but a lot of teams do after losing a big final. If you really had to sack him you just needed a fresh face with similar ideology.

Instead you went Mourinho - which always ends badly.
		
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Sometimes the big name manager isn’t the best option!

Leeds have at least gone for a new manager with a similar philosophy to Bielsa. Whereas many teams like Spurs have, go with a big name who has a completely different playing style.


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## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Again, remember I have a limited football knowledge, but a certain number of modern 'top class' managers do annoy me (maybe this should be a random irritation). It seems that they put forward their pedigree or winning things but those wins only come on the back of a budget the size of of some countries GDP to bring in a significant number of world class players to play in the only system they want to play. What happened to the old fashioned idea of a manager coming in and developing and improving the players that he has, finding a system that works for the existing playing personnel etc. Currently it seems like a manager comes in, says 'right we are playing 4-3-3' or whatever system is the system of the day and then brazenly admits that the team will not be good until he has a few transfer windows to buy in players who can actually play in the system he wants to play.
		
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Yep. That's Conte in a nutshell, and exactly why I can't understand why we hired him. Seems like such a bad fit from the get-go.


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## GB72 (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yep. That's Conte in a nutshell, and exactly why I can't understand why we hired him. Seems like such a bad fit from the get-go.
		
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Cannot understand how either saw it as a good idea, a manager who needs a significant budget to produce a winning side going to a club with a massive aversion to actually spending money.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Well, we bought Ndombele, he turned out to be a lazy tosser. We bought Lo Celso who basically did nothing. Brought in Bryan Gil who was promptly loaned out 6 months later. We tried to bring in replacements but they just didn't work out. This is what happens when you don't pay top buck for already world class players. Even back when Eriksen arrived in the first place it was only £12m, so that was one that _did_ pay off.
		
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it’s a fine line between paying Oil money billions and bargain basement fees. Oddly enough I came across a player transfer table from when the prem league started 😳 there’s some interesting stuff in what teams have paid and the return they have generated from that “ investment “.


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## Jensen (Mar 2, 2022)

As I’ve said before, the blame lies with Levy. Lovely state of the art ground, but if the film is rubbish it won’t fill the cinema.
Getting the right management structure in place is key for long term success. Levy just seems to look short term


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## Swango1980 (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yep. That's Conte in a nutshell, and exactly why I can't understand why we hired him. Seems like such a bad fit from the get-go.
		
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Yet some mocked Man Utd for not immediately employing him as manager to replace Ole. Didn't seem to matter he may not be the best fit, all that mattered was get whatever big name happens to be available mid season.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Anyone else starting to think Conte is just a mediocre manager when he can't buy a whole host of new players?? 

Click to expand...

Based on 6 months with an average squad? 

What genuinely did you expect from him?

Managers these days dont get the time they need. Generally, Fans expectations need to come down a peg or two.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yet some mocked Man Utd for not immediately employing him as manager to replace Ole. Didn't seem to matter he may not be the best fit, all that mattered was get whatever big name happens to be available mid season.
		
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Most manager appointments are a gamble, very few look the right fit from the beginning. 

The most important thing is giving managers time.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 2, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Again, remember I have a limited football knowledge, but a certain number of modern 'top class' managers do annoy me (maybe this should be a random irritation). It seems that they put forward their pedigree or winning things but those wins only come on the back of a budget the size of of some countries GDP to bring in a significant number of world class players to play in the only system they want to play. What happened to the old fashioned idea of a manager coming in and developing and improving the players that he has, finding a system that works for the existing playing personnel etc. Currently it seems like a manager comes in, says 'right we are playing 4-3-3' or whatever system is the system of the day and then brazenly admits that the team will not be good until he has a few transfer windows to buy in players who can actually play in the system he wants to play.
		
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Jurgen isn't old fashioned.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Anyone else starting to think Conte is just a mediocre manager when he can't buy a whole host of new players?? 

Click to expand...

So let's look at who he bought at Chelsea then;

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/kante-drinkwater-morata-12-players-22008535

Alvaro Morata
Tiemoue Bakayoko
Danny Drinkwater
Michy Batshuayi
N'Golo Kante
David Luiz
Antonio Rudiger
Davide Zappacosta
Marcos Alonso
Olivier Giroud
Emerson
Ross Barkley

And he sold;

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/transfer-news/antonio-conte-players-chelsea-sold-20861765

Mohamed Salah
Diego Costa
John Terry
Juan Cuadrado
Nathan Ake
Nemanja Matic
Asmir Begovic
Patrick Bamford
Oscar
Christian Atsu
Christian Cuevas
Nathaniel Chalobah
Marko Marin
Stipa Perica
Papy Djilobodji

Might be more accurate to say that he won trophies despite his transfers rather than because of them.  Conte changed the formation after losses to Liverpool & Arsenal and went on to win the league with a then-record of 30 wins.  But he can only buy success?

Maybe it's not Conte...


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## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yet some mocked Man Utd for not immediately employing him as manager to replace Ole. Didn't seem to matter he may not be the best fit, all that mattered was get whatever big name happens to be available mid season.
		
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Well, he would have been ideal for Man Utd, just not us. Man Utd always throw money at problems, that's exactly what Conte wants!


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## Swango1980 (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Well, he would have been ideal for Man Utd, just not us. Man Utd always throw money at problems, that's exactly what Conte wants!
		
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Personally, I don't see him as ideal for Man Utd.

Man Utd do always throw money at problems. The last several years has shown that is not always the perfect solution. If Man Utd actually do have some sort of long term strategy, learning from past failures, I'd like them to actually stick to it, rather than just employ the first big name that comes along (is available) and hope for the best.


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## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			So let's look at who he bought at Chelsea then;

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/kante-drinkwater-morata-12-players-22008535

Alvaro Morata
Tiemoue Bakayoko
Danny Drinkwater
Michy Batshuayi
N'Golo Kante
David Luiz
Antonio Rudiger
Davide Zappacosta
Marcos Alonso
Olivier Giroud
Emerson
Ross Barkley

And he sold;

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/transfer-news/antonio-conte-players-chelsea-sold-20861765

Mohamed Salah
Diego Costa
John Terry
Juan Cuadrado
Nathan Ake
Nemanja Matic
Asmir Begovic
Patrick Bamford
Oscar
Christian Atsu
Christian Cuevas
Nathaniel Chalobah
Marko Marin
Stipa Perica
Papy Djilobodji

Might be more accurate to say that he won trophies despite his transfers rather than because of them.  Conte changed the formation after losses to Liverpool & Arsenal and went on to win the league with a then-record of 30 wins.  But he can only buy success?

Maybe it's not Conte... 

Click to expand...

So a hell of a lot of money spent, and from that scattercash approach that you ended up with Kante, Rudiger, Luiz and Alonso who all became key players in the side. I think the Spurs equivalent would be buying Zappacosta and Bakayoko out of that list and none of the others.


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## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Personally, I don't see him as ideal for Man Utd.

Man Utd do always throw money at problems. The last several years has shown that is not always the perfect solution. If Man Utd actually do have some sort of long term strategy, learning from past failures, I'd like them to actually stick to it, rather than just employ the first big name that comes along (is available) and hope for the best.
		
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He'd be better suited for United than he is for Spurs anyway.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2022)

The bus from the last Spurs trophy parade


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## Slime (Mar 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yep. That's Conte in a nutshell, and exactly why I can't understand why we hired him. Seems like such a bad fit from the get-go.
		
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GB72 said:



			Cannot understand how either saw it as a good idea, a manager who needs a significant budget to produce a winning side going to a club with a massive aversion to actually spending money.
		
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................. and that's why I'm glad United didn't hire him.


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## fundy (Mar 2, 2022)

Anyone got a spare couple of billion down the back of the sofa, seems like Roman looking for a quick sale before he cant sell


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## 4LEX (Mar 2, 2022)

I'm sure the Chinese will be interested in some key real estate, sorry football club.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2022)

“I would like to address the speculation in media over the past few days in relation to my ownership of Chelsea FC. As I have stated before, I have always taken decisions with the Club’s best interest at heart. In the current situation, I have therefore taken the decision to sell the Club, as I believe this is in the best interest of the Club, the fans, the employees, as well as the Club’s sponsors and partners.

The sale of the Club will not be fast-tracked but will follow due process. I will not be asking for any loans to be repaid. This has never been about business nor money for me, but about pure passion for the game and Club. Moreover, I have instructed my team to set up a charitable foundation where all net proceeds from the sale will be donated. The foundation will be for the benefit of all victims of the war in Ukraine. This includes providing critical funds towards the urgent and immediate needs of victims, as well as supporting the long-term work of recovery.

Please know that this has been an incredibly difficult decision to make, and it pains me to part with the Club in this manner. However, I do believe this is in the best interest of the Club.

I hope that I will be able to visit Stamford Bridge one last time to say goodbye to all of you in person. It has been a privilege of a lifetime to be part of Chelsea FC and I am proud of all our joint achievements. Chelsea Football Club and its supporters will always be in my heart.

Thank you,

Roman”


I don’t think it’s a surprise , looks like it’s selling and running because of the potential sanctions 

Not sure who has a spare £4bn aroundb


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I'm sure the Chinese will be interested in some key real estate, sorry football club.
		
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Won't be much good without the pitch, which Abramovich doesn't own


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“I hope that I will be able to visit Stamford Bridge one last time to say goodbye to all of you in person. It has been a privilege of a lifetime to be part of Chelsea FC and I am proud of all our joint achievements. *Chelsea Football Club and its supporters will always be in my heart.*

Thank you,

Roman”
		
Click to expand...

And you will always be in ours.  Thank you for everything Roman.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Anyone got a spare couple of billion down the back of the sofa, seems like Roman looking for a quick sale before he cant sell 

Click to expand...

Theres a money tree somewhere😁


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“I would like to address the speculation in media over the past few days in relation to my ownership of Chelsea FC. As I have stated before, I have always taken decisions with the Club’s best interest at heart. In the current situation, I have therefore taken the decision to sell the Club, as I believe this is in the best interest of the Club, the fans, the employees, as well as the Club’s sponsors and partners.

The sale of the Club will not be fast-tracked but will follow due process. I will not be asking for any loans to be repaid. This has never been about business nor money for me, but about pure passion for the game and Club. *Moreover, I have instructed my team to set up a charitable foundation where all net proceeds from the sale will be donated. The foundation will be for the benefit of all victims of the war in Ukraine. This includes providing critical funds towards the urgent and immediate needs of victims, as well as supporting the long-term work of recovery.*

Please know that this has been an incredibly difficult decision to make, and it pains me to part with the Club in this manner. However, I do believe this is in the best interest of the Club.

I hope that I will be able to visit Stamford Bridge one last time to say goodbye to all of you in person. It has been a privilege of a lifetime to be part of Chelsea FC and I am proud of all our joint achievements. Chelsea Football Club and its supporters will always be in my heart.

Thank you,

Roman”


I don’t think it’s a surprise , looks like it’s selling and running because of the potential sanctions

Not sure who has a spare £4bn aroundb
		
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Given that part of the statement, the sanctions won't have any effect will they; he's not taking the money.


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## AmandaJR (Mar 2, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Given that part of the statement, the sanctions won't have any effect will they; he's not taking the money.
		
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Net proceeds though? I hope it's genuine and all victims and long-term work of recovery includes Ukrainians/Ukraine.

Maybe I'm naive but it sounds heartfelt.


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## Jensen (Mar 2, 2022)

“In the best interest of the club” more Bull S**t from Abramovich. The only thing this Oligarch cares about is himself!!!
If he doesn’t have ties to Putin and The Kremlin then why doesn’t he come out and condemn them ?
If he did, then surely there would be no reason to sell “his beloved Chelsea”, what about that Sherlock…….🤔


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 2, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Net proceeds though? I hope it's genuine and all victims and long-term work of recovery includes Ukrainians/Ukraine.

Maybe I'm naive but it sounds heartfelt.
		
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We effectively owe him £1.5 billion and he’s written that off as I understand it, so I can’t see how there wouldn’t be a net profit?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Given that part of the statement, the sanctions won't have any effect will they; he's not taking the money.
		
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Not sure mate - he will get £3-4bn for the club , it was bought for £150mil ? So does that mean he is giving away potentially a couple billion to charity ? So he walks away with nothing ? 

He does seem to be a fan of the club and has put over £1bn into it to turn the club into what it is so no doubt the fans will miss him as the owner ( and not just because of the money )

Any new owner isn’t potentially going to spend the same amount so it’s going to be interesting times ahead


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 2, 2022)

Jensen said:



			“In the best interest of the club” more Bull S**t from Abramovich. The only thing this Oligarch cares about is himself!!!
If he doesn’t have ties to Putin and The Kremlin then why doesn’t he come out and condemn them ?
If he did, then surely there would be no reason to sell “his beloved Chelsea”, what about that Sherlock…….🤔
		
Click to expand...

As a Spurs follower, you seem so blinded by your hatred and jealousy of Chelsea, you can't see the flaws in your argument!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2022)

Jensen said:



			“In the best interest of the club” more Bull S**t from Abramovich. The only thing this Oligarch cares about is himself!!!
If he doesn’t have ties to Putin and The Kremlin then why doesn’t he come out and condemn them ?
If he did, then surely there would be no reason to sell “his beloved Chelsea”, what about that Sherlock…….🤔
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think so. Don’t get me wrong he has had well paid advisors help him type that out/ release that statement. There are several things mentioned that prick my ears.

Money to go to Ukraine victims.
He don’t want the 1.5 Billion back he has loaned Chelsea.
He wants one last chance to say goodbye to Chelsea.

Roman stating he wants brass to go to Ukraine victims 😳 Bloody hell. That’s as close as a condemnation you will get without going to the Gulag.It endorses what I said earlier today. The Russian ballet and Roman have seen the conflict from a non state sponsored telly and don’t like what they see.

He don’t want his 1.5 billion lose change back. The total opposite of Mike Ashley.

His one last chance to say goodbye tells me he loves the club.

For someone I wouldn’t have to try hard to find a dislike to, he has gone right up in my estimation for a Russian.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 2, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Net proceeds though? I hope it's genuine and all victims and long-term work of recovery includes Ukrainians/Ukraine.

Maybe I'm naive but it sounds heartfelt.
		
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It would be nice, but being cynical he didn't specifically refer to Ukranians as victims? Perhaps he means the Russian soldiers who get injured and killed, and his wording was spun so that it sounded nice to us in the west?

If he just came out and said he is against the war, and that Ukrainians should be allowed to decide their own future, and Russua should not decide it for them, then I may have more faith in his statement.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t think so. Don’t get me wrong he has had well paid advisors help him type that out/ release that statement. There are several things mentioned that prick my ears.

Money to go to Ukraine victims.
He don’t want the 1.5 Billion back he has loaned Chelsea.
He wants one last chance to say goodbye to Chelsea.

Roman stating he wants brass to go to Ukraine victims 😳 Bloody hell. That’s as close as a condemnation you will get without going to the Gulag.It endorses what I said earlier today. The Russian ballet and Roman have seen the conflict from a non state sponsored telly and don’t like what they see.

He don’t want his 1.5 billion lose change back. The total opposite of Mike Ashley.

His one last chance to say goodbye tells me he loves the club.

For someone I wouldn’t have to try hard to find a dislike to, he has gone right up in my estimation for a Russian.
		
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I think you're right in as much as any outright condemnation will get him into a lot of trouble with Putin and the powers within Moscow and I suppose by default that also brings any family he has in Russia into danger. I think a statement is one thing, but lets see how the sale goes and what he does once he's sold Chelsea. Also interesting to see who may buy it and what their plans are.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 2, 2022)

Jensen said:



			“In the best interest of the club” more Bull S**t from Abramovich. The only thing this Oligarch cares about is himself!!!
If he doesn’t have ties to Putin and The Kremlin then why doesn’t he come out and condemn them ?
If he did, then surely there would be no reason to sell “his beloved Chelsea”, what about that Sherlock…….🤔
		
Click to expand...

Because if he did that he would be dead.
Poison brolly or door handle.?


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## HampshireHog (Mar 2, 2022)

However you view Abramovic and his billions, how he got them, and changing the face of the premier league it is pretty hard to criticise him as an owner.  Ironicly, the only time I remember him getting involved with the players was when he foisted a Ukrainian, Shevchenko on Mouriniho.


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## AmandaJR (Mar 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It would be nice, *but being cynical he didn't specifically refer to Ukranians as victims*? Perhaps he means the Russian soldiers who get injured and killed, and his wording was spun so that it sounded nice to us in the west?

If he just came out and said he is against the war, and that Ukrainians should be allowed to decide their own future, and Russua should not decide it for them, then I may have more faith in his statement.
		
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That's the bit I would question as it could indeed just be to Russian casualties.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2022)

I wonder if Saudi and UAE owners will be next due to the ongoing issues with Yemen 🤔


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## Dando (Mar 2, 2022)

Not sure I believe a word of Roman’s statement.

He’s only selling now as when he gets sanctioned (which should’ve happened by now) all his assets are frozen


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## Golfnut1957 (Mar 2, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Good to see the ref making his own decisions with no VAR to worry about.
The game was better without it .
Well done to *Borough* thought they deserved it.
Some poor finishing though but great goal for the young lad.
		
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It may appear odd, and pedantic, but it's Boro. Oddly there is only one O in Middlesbrough.
And, what makes Coburns goal even sweeter is Sunderland binned him as a kid and Boro picked him up


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## greenone (Mar 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder if Saudi and UAE owners will be next due to the ongoing issues with Yemen 🤔
		
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Definitely to reduce the world's oil consumption before that happens.


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## Jensen (Mar 2, 2022)

Golfnut1957 said:



			It may appear odd, and pedantic, but it's Boro. Oddly there is only one O in Middlesbrough.
And, what makes Coburns goal even sweeter is Sunderland binned him as a kid and Boro picked him up
		
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It’s also Teesside, not Teeside


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## Jensen (Mar 2, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And you will always be in ours.  Thank you for everything Roman.
		
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Makes you wonder why he never got UK residency/citizenship 🤔🤔🤔


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## Rlburnside (Mar 2, 2022)

HampshireHog said:



			However you view Abramovic and his billions, how he got them, and changing the face of the premier league it is pretty hard to criticise him as an owner.  Ironicly, the only time I remember him getting involved with the players was when he foisted a Ukrainian, Shevchenko on Mouriniho.
		
Click to expand...

You might not want to criticize him as a owner but I would. 

Some might  look to how the money come to him in the first place and find that unpalatable. 

He’s trying to offload some of his properties and football club before he looses them. Nothing heard from him until now when he’s forced into actions he didn’t want, no condemnation of Russia. 

I don’t buy this love  for a football club, just because you can buy a club especially a club in a foreign country. 

No doubt if he puts in a appearance to say goodbye there will be thousands of Chelsea fans applauding him conveniently forgetting how their recent success was funded. 

Pride of London what a joke.


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## Dando (Mar 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It would be nice, but being cynical he didn't specifically refer to Ukranians as victims? Perhaps he means the Russian soldiers who get injured and killed, and his wording was spun so that it sounded nice to us in the west?

If he just came out and said he is against the war, and that Ukrainians should be allowed to decide their own future, and Russua should not decide it for them, then I may have more faith in his statement.
		
Click to expand...

A “charitable foundation” 🤣🤣
They are all as dodgy as hell with the trustees creaming off most the money in “fees”


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## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2022)

Back to football, hope tonight’s Chelsea game don’t go to penalties 😳


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 2, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			You might not want to criticize him as a owner but I would. 

Some might  look to how the money come to him in the first place and find that unpalatable. 

He’s trying to offload some of his properties and football club before he looses them. Nothing heard from him until now when he’s forced into actions he didn’t want, no condemnation of Russia. 

I don’t buy this love  for a football club, just because you can buy a club especially a club in a foreign country. 

No doubt if he puts in a appearance to say goodbye there will be thousands of Chelsea fans applauding him conveniently forgetting how their recent success was funded. 

Pride of London what a joke.
		
Click to expand...

Another bitter and jealous Spurs fan!


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## greenone (Mar 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Back to football, hope tonight’s Chelsea game don’t go to penalties 😳
		
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If it goes to penalties which keeper started and which is on the bench?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2022)

greenone said:



			If it goes to penalties which keeper started and which is on the bench?
		
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Opened me cakehole to soon 😁


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## Jensen (Mar 2, 2022)

When Putin called all the Oligarchs to The Kremlin to explain that their Companies would become “owned” by The State, why wasn’t Abramovich one of them 🤔
What was he doing or gifting to excuse him from that meeting 🤔
Even now, why has Putin still not relieved him of Sibnef 🤔


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## Jensen (Mar 2, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Another bitter and jealous Spurs fan!
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Rlburnside (Mar 2, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Another bitter and jealous Spurs fan!
		
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Not bitter or jealous, I’ve said similar about Man. City and Newcastle both clubs funded from countries that have terrible human rights records and where domestic violence is lawful, why would you want to support clubs like that.


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## HampshireHog (Mar 2, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			You might not want to criticize him as a owner but I would.

Some might  look to how the money come to him in the first place and find that unpalatable.

He’s trying to offload some of his properties and football club before he looses them. Nothing heard from him until now when he’s forced into actions he didn’t want, no condemnation of Russia.

I don’t buy this love  for a football club, just because you can buy a club especially a club in a foreign country.

No doubt if he puts in a appearance to say goodbye there will be thousands of Chelsea fans applauding him conveniently forgetting how their recent success was funded.

Pride of London what a joke.
		
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And yet you haven’t criticised him for his behaviour as the owner which was the point of my post.  There are clearly plenty things that can be levelled at him but not acting on Chelsea’s interests is not one of them in.


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## Foxholer (Mar 2, 2022)

Jensen said:



			...
Even now, why has Putin still not relieved him of Sibnef 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Probably because Abramovic no longer has significant interest in Sibnef!


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 2, 2022)

Jensen said:



			When Putin called all the Oligarchs to The Kremlin to explain that their Companies would become “owned” by The State, why wasn’t Abramovich one of them 🤔
What was he doing or gifting to excuse him from that meeting 🤔
*Even now, why has Putin still not relieved him of Sibnef *🤔
		
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Apparently because he sold Sibneft to Gazprom in 2005.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15154362

"The Chelsea Football Club owner sold Sibneft to Russia's state-owned gas monopoly Gazprom in a multibillion-dollar deal in 2005."


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## Rlburnside (Mar 2, 2022)

HampshireHog said:



			And yet you haven’t criticised him for his behaviour as the owner which was the point of my post.  There are clearly plenty things that can be levelled at him but not acting on Chelsea’s interests is not one of them in.
		
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It depends what you believe i suppose, let’s remember he’s been forced to put out that statement. Just being the owner of Chelsea FC is not in the clubs best interest 

In a few years and if the truth really comes out the ‘ glory’ years under Abramovich should  be seen as tainted and a dark period in the history of Chelsea FC.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 2, 2022)

Golfnut1957 said:



			It may appear odd, and pedantic, but it's Boro. Oddly there is only one O in Middlesbrough.
And, what makes Coburns goal even sweeter is Sunderland binned him as a kid and Boro picked him up
		
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Your right it’s odd.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 3, 2022)

A good runout and win last night for the newly crowned Milk Cup winners, 1st half was really good,2nd half not so but with 10 changes it was a decent tie.

The magic of the cup is well and truly alive with tonights game at Goodison were little rank outsiders with no expectation to go through entertain Boreham Wood....

I've always loved the FA Cup weekends as a fan, its the 2nd greatest Trophy to win just behind the magnificent Milk Cup.

Midweek FA Cup rounds need leggin though.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 3, 2022)

Chelsea fans singing Abramovichs name but being drowned out by Luton fans booing. 

Club and fans with no class 

Pride of London my arse😂


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## PieMan (Mar 3, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Chelsea fans singing Abramovichs name but being drowned out by Luton fans booing.

Club and fans with no class

Pride of London my arse😂
		
Click to expand...



Yes we get it - you don't like Chelsea or Abramovich.

Just keep on dreaming on what your team could've won had he bought your club first like he wanted to do. 

But that's just Spurs being, well Spursy!!!


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 3, 2022)

Dando said:



			Not sure I believe a word of Roman’s statement.

He’s only selling now as *when he gets sanctioned (which should’ve happened by now) *all his assets are frozen
		
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*From the Times ....*

Oligarchs, including Roman Abramovich, may not be sanctioned for months - The Times

Russian oligarchs such as Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich may not be sanctioned for months, *after the government was unable to build a case against them*, The Times says.

The *Foreign Office and the National Crime Agency have not been able to prove that there are "reasonable grounds" *against the Russian businessmen, *and have been unable to link their finances to the Putin government.*

According to the paper, *officials tried to build a case against Abramovich in 2018, but was told that the government could be sued for millions if decisions were made on a flawed basis.*

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ovich-and-oligarchs-may-take-months-r8096scc6

Might explain why a lot of the shouting is being done from somewhere that prevents people being sued for defamation...


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## Rlburnside (Mar 3, 2022)

PieMan said:





Yes we get it - you don't like Chelsea or Abramovich.

Just keep on dreaming on what your team could've won had he bought your club first like he wanted to do. 

But that's just Spurs being, well Spursy!!! 

Click to expand...

If he brought our club I think I would have lost interest in football 

Yea he could have brought a different  club and had a life long love of that club😂 reminds me of school kids  that start supporting a club when they win things😂 

Ok I’m out 👍


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## Jensen (Mar 3, 2022)

PieMan said:





Yes we get it - you don't like Chelsea or Abramovich.

Just keep on dreaming on what your team could've won had he bought your club first like he wanted to do. 

But that's just Spurs being, well Spursy!!! 

Click to expand...

And yet he claims to be Jewish 🤔 clearly didn’t do due diligence before he bought the wrong club 🤔
Now has Israeli citizenship 🤔
It gets more baffling 🤔🤔🤔


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## Jensen (Mar 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



*From the Times ....*

Oligarchs, including Roman Abramovich, may not be sanctioned for months - The Times

Russian oligarchs such as Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich may not be sanctioned for months, *after the government was unable to build a case against them*, The Times says.

The *Foreign Office and the National Crime Agency have not been able to prove that there are "reasonable grounds" *against the Russian businessmen, *and have been unable to link their finances to the Putin government.*

According to the paper, *officials tried to build a case against Abramovich in 2018, but was told that the government could be sued for millions if decisions were made on a flawed basis.*

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ovich-and-oligarchs-may-take-months-r8096scc6

Might explain why a lot of the shouting is being done from somewhere that prevents people being sued for defamation...
		
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I’m sorry, despite appearing intelligent, surely you’re not that naive to swallow that.
The guy got his money from VERY unsavoury measures. 
He’s a crook and has worst form than Arthur Daley, with minders harder than Terry McCann 😉


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## PieMan (Mar 3, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			If he brought our club I think I would have lost interest in football

Yea he could have brought a different  club and had a life long love of that club😂 reminds me of school kids  that start supporting a club when they win things😂

Ok I’m out 👍
		
Click to expand...

Surely supporting Spurs you lost interest in football years ago?


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## PieMan (Mar 3, 2022)

Jensen said:



			And yet he claims to be Jewish 🤔 clearly didn’t do due diligence before he bought the wrong club 🤔
Now has Israeli citizenship 🤔
It gets more baffling 🤔🤔🤔
		
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Yep based on the allegiance of all my Jewish mates, he should've bought Arsenal......

As you say, baffling


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## 3offTheTee (Mar 3, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Surely supporting Spurs you lost interest in football years ago?

Click to expand...

That is some put down. However let me say I have nothing against Spurs. 2 guys I play with every week both support them from 250 miles away. Both in their 50’s so may be they were good around The Ardilles / Villa period


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 3, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I’m sorry, despite appearing intelligent, surely you’re not that naive to swallow that.
The guy got his money from VERY unsavoury measures.
He’s a crook and has worst form than Arthur Daley, with minders harder than Terry McCann 😉
		
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I quoted an article that might explain why he hadn't been sanctioned in reply to another poster who thought he already should have been.  

Why should I not believe that the Foreign Office and the National Crime Agency have not been able to build a case when it has been reported by one of our more reputable papers, and given credence by the fact that those supposedly in the know won't repeat the allegations outside the safety of the chamber?


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## fundy (Mar 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I quoted an article that might explain why he hadn't been sanctioned in reply to another poster who thought he already should have been. 

Why should I not believe that the Foreign Office and the National Crime Agency have not been able to build a case when it has been reported by one of our more reputable papers, and given credence by the fact that those supposedly in the know won't repeat the allegations outside the safety of the chamber?
		
Click to expand...


because answering it on here would be deemed political and get one fraggered ?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2022)

Blimey - seems Abramovich selling has stirred the Spurs fans up 

Why ?

It’s not like it’s really affected Spurs as they have never been in a position to challenge, can understand if it was Arsenal , Liverpool and Man Utd fans 

Chelsea were still having a level of success more than Spurs before Abramovich arrived


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## jim8flog (Mar 3, 2022)

Throw ins

It is getting so lenient these days. 

Last night the ball went over the line about 2 yards from the corner flag by the time 'dithered' over who he was going to throw it to he was nearly at the half way line..

Another throw in it could clearly be seen that the player was throwing one handed.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 3, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Surely supporting Spurs you lost interest in football years ago?

Click to expand...

Sadly your nearly right 👍


----------



## Rlburnside (Mar 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey - seems Abramovich selling has stirred the Spurs fans up

Why ?

It’s not like it’s really affected Spurs as they have never been in a position to challenge, can understand if it was Arsenal , Liverpool and Man Utd fans

Chelsea were still having a level of success more than Spurs before Abramovich arrived
		
Click to expand...

You must have read all the posts so why don’t you understand it’s not all about Spurs competing with other clubs it’s about  corruption. 

Would you be happy to support Man City or Newcastle etc knowing how the club is funded?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			You must have read all the posts so why don’t you understand it’s not all about Spurs competing with other clubs it’s about  corruption.

Would you be happy to support Man City or Newcastle etc knowing how the club is funded?
		
Click to expand...

My views on City and Newcastle are clear 

What’s not clear is how Abramovich got his money either way it’s not the same as a club being owned by a state in the same way as City and Newcastle 

Hence why I was surprised a City fan was questioning Abramovich- guess they ignore the issues of their owners and what’s happening with Yemen etc


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 3, 2022)

jim8flog said:



			Throw ins

It is getting so lenient these days.

Last night the ball went over the line about 2 yards from the corner flag by the time 'dithered' over who he was going to throw it to he was nearly at the half way line..

Another throw in it could clearly be seen that the player was throwing one handed.
		
Click to expand...

I want VAR to review every throw in, and ensure the ref reviews it if VAR think it was taken incorrectly


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## Dando (Mar 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			My views on City and Newcastle are clear

What’s not clear is how Abramovich got his money either way it’s not the same as a club being owned by a state in the same way as City and Newcastle

Hence why I was surprised a City fan was questioning Abramovich- guess they ignore the issues of their owners and what’s happening with Yemen etc
		
Click to expand...

Phil, how abramovich got his money is well documented


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## Dando (Mar 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



*From the Times ....*

Oligarchs, including Roman Abramovich, may not be sanctioned for months - The Times

Russian oligarchs such as Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich may not be sanctioned for months, *after the government was unable to build a case against them*, The Times says.

The *Foreign Office and the National Crime Agency have not been able to prove that there are "reasonable grounds" *against the Russian businessmen, *and have been unable to link their finances to the Putin government.*

According to the paper, *officials tried to build a case against Abramovich in 2018, but was told that the government could be sued for millions if decisions were made on a flawed basis.*

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ovich-and-oligarchs-may-take-months-r8096scc6

Might explain why a lot of the shouting is being done from somewhere that prevents people being sued for defamation...
		
Click to expand...

Rich, i know there are issues with sanctioning him but it’s hilarious that people think he’s selling up now for the good of the club and the fans


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2022)

Dando said:



			Phil, how abramovich got his money is well documented
		
Click to expand...

Yep

But which document

https://www.thegentlemansjournal.com/article/roman-abramovich-made-first-fortune/

And in other news 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499419636412162051
Love a bit of greed from UEFA


----------



## Rlburnside (Mar 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			My views on City and Newcastle are clear

What’s not clear is how Abramovich got his money either way it’s not the same as a club being owned by a state in the same way as City and Newcastle

Hence why I was surprised a City fan was questioning Abramovich- guess they ignore the issues of their owners and what’s happening with Yemen etc
		
Click to expand...

I’m not commenting anymore on Abramovich and his apologists. 

I agree with you on City, Newcastle , it’s maybe time fans have a long hard think about how there clubs are funded.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 3, 2022)




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## greenone (Mar 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



View attachment 41577

Click to expand...

I though levy was in charge at spurs and 'arry redknapp was retired?


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## Golfmmad (Mar 3, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Another bitter and jealous Spurs fan!
		
Click to expand...

Some on here will know that Rlburnside and I  are brothers. It's fair to say that I know him better than anyone else on here. So I can assure you that his comments re. Abramovich and Chelsea are not from a bitter and jealous Spurs fan!
You only have to look at post 23830 after the Spurs loss to Middlesborough. Hardly bitter towards Middlesborough. 
It's all about the morals of the situation, nothing to do with resentment and jealously.


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## Leftitshort (Mar 3, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Some on here will know that Rlburnside and I  are brothers. It's fair to say that I know him better than anyone else on here. So I can assure you that his comments re. Abramovich and Chelsea are not from a bitter and jealous Spurs fan!
You only have to look at post 23830 after the Spurs loss to Middlesborough. Hardly bitter towards Middlesborough.
It's all about the morals of the situation, nothing to do with resentment and jealously.
		
Click to expand...

 Where have his morals been for the last 20 years. Seems like bandwagon jumping to me.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.thegentlemansjournal.com/article/roman-abramovich-made-first-fortune/

And in other news


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499419636412162051
Love a bit of greed from UEFA
		
Click to expand...

That well known publication


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I’m not commenting anymore on Abramovich and his apologists.

I agree with you on City, Newcastle , it’s maybe time fans have a long hard think about how there clubs are funded.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think so, City is in my blood. I supported them when they were rubbish and still support them. Say for one minute I do have a long hard think. What other team do I support. Have a look on Wikipedia re prem team owners. The moral high ground was  discarded by clubs, the Prem league, UEFA and FIFA a long time ago.


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## Golfmmad (Mar 3, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			Where have his morals been for the last 20 years. Seems like bandwagon jumping to me.
		
Click to expand...

I can assure you it's not!


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## Rlburnside (Mar 3, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			Where have his morals been for the last 20 years. Seems like bandwagon jumping to me.
		
Click to expand...

I had a debate with a Chelsea fan about Abramovich years ago on this forum long before this kicked off ,  so it’s not bandwagon jumping as you mistakenly put it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2022)

FA Cup Draw

Palace vs Everton/Borehamwood
Forest/Huddersfield vs Liverpool
Middlesbrough vs Chelsea
Southampton vs Man City


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## Leftitshort (Mar 3, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I had a debate with a Chelsea fan about Abramovich years ago on this forum long before this kicked off ,  so it’s not bandwagon jumping as you mistakenly put it.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t remember you posting much about Man City? Or Newcastle? West Ham? You can’t be selective. Abramovich is guilty of hanging around with dodgy people & making his money in less than transparent ways in Russia in the 90’s. It’s all conjecture. The Newcastle owners literally cut someone up with a bone saw


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## fundy (Mar 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FA Cup Draw

Palace vs Everton/Borehamwood
Forest/Huddersfield vs Liverpool
Middlesbrough vs Chelsea
Southampton vs Man City
	View attachment 41580

Click to expand...

2 warmed balls draws in a row  disappointing for the neutral lol


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## Rlburnside (Mar 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t think so, City is in my blood. I supported them when they were rubbish and still support them. Say for one minute I do have a long hard think. What other team do I support. Have a look on Wikipedia re prem team owners. The moral high ground was  discarded by clubs, the Prem league, UEFA and FIFA a long time ago.
		
Click to expand...

Tash  we come from a generation that we support our team from when we were kids, I was taken to White Heart Lane by my older brother that’s when I first saw Jimmy Greaves, it does get in your blood.

I no longer have the love for football I used to have for various reasons but I will always watch Spurs and support them.

Unless……
I fully understand we as fans want our teams to be successful and win things but if my own club was owned and financed by people I strongly disagree with I think that would be the last straw for me and I couldn’t follow them anymore.

We all have choices to make. 

I know you are a old school genuine fan but gave up your season ticket recently which is a shame as I know your a family man and loved taking your grandson to games. 👍


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## Rlburnside (Mar 3, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			Don’t remember you posting much about Man City? Or Newcastle? West Ham? You can’t be selective. Abramovich is guilty of hanging around with dodgy people & making his money in less than transparent ways in Russia in the 90’s. It’s all conjecture. The Newcastle owners literally cut someone up with a bone saw
		
Click to expand...

You haven’t got a good memory then 😉

I’ve criticized Man City many times on here I also  posted about Newcastle when they were taken over by the Arabs even to the point of apologizing to the toon fans by saying I hope they get relegated


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## putterman60 (Mar 3, 2022)

I`m watching Everton v Boreham Wood its painful


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			2 warmed balls draws in a row  disappointing for the neutral lol
		
Click to expand...

The cynic in me is wondering what the odds are of the four biggest teams in an eight team draw all avoiding each other.


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## Beezerk (Mar 3, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			I`m watching Everton v Boreham Wood its painful
		
Click to expand...

Be great if Everton get humped 😂


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## greenone (Mar 3, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			The cynic in me is wondering what the odds are of the four biggest teams in an eight team draw all avoiding each other.
		
Click to expand...

Whos the 4th?


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## Dando (Mar 3, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			I`m watching Everton v Boreham Wood its painful
		
Click to expand...

I’ve had more enjoyable ingrowing toenails


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## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			I`m watching Everton v Boreham Wood its painful
		
Click to expand...

joking aside, Boreham are doin more than ok in there league. Could well be promoted to div 3.That said I will be interested to see there fitness levels 2 nd half.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			joking aside, Boreham are doin more than ok in there league. Could well be promoted to div 3.That said I will be interested to see there fitness levels 2 nd half.
		
Click to expand...

They are a full time team so no plumbers or posties just coming off a shift (does every non league / part time team have to have a postie in the side incidentally?) Fitness levels should be okay. It's probably more about keeping mentally sharp second half.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2022)

Talking to one of the lads in the fuddle today.He is a Geordie. I mentioned about him supporting Newcastle and he said “ I support West Ham”. I asked “ how did that happen”. He said “ me auntie fancied Mervin Day so I started following them”. 😳


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Talking to one of the lads in the fuddle today.He is a Geordie. I mentioned about him supporting Newcastle and he said “ I support West Ham”. I asked “ how did that happen”. He said “ me auntie fancied Mervin Day so I started following them”. 😳
		
Click to expand...

Now that is an odd one 😆


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## Stuart_C (Mar 3, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			I`m watching Everton v Boreham Wood its painful
		
Click to expand...

Boredthemtodeath v Boreham Wood 😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Tash  we come from a generation that we support our team from when we were kids, I was taken to White Heart Lane by my older brother that’s when I first saw Jimmy Greaves, it does get in your blood.

I no longer have the love for football I used to have for various reasons but I will always watch Spurs and support them.

Unless……
I fully understand we as fans want our teams to be successful and win things but if my own club was owned and financed by people I strongly disagree with I think that would be the last straw for me and I couldn’t follow them anymore.

We all have choices to make.

I know you are a old school genuine fan but gave up your season ticket recently which is a shame as I know your a family man and loved taking your grandson to games. 👍
		
Click to expand...

In all honesty,The passion I have for the game is not quite the same as it was . I am able to see football now I never thought I would see in a City shirt. Some of the players I have seen. Well they have made dreams come true. Most folk talk about the Arabs that own City. It only scratches the surface. They own 76% of the club. The other 24% is Chinese state company owned and a American company. It don’t get any worse. Chuck in the previous owner Thaksin Shinawatra. None of it makes good reading. I still go occasionally, twice this year. Once to take Bradley and son for a night time Champs cup game and the Fulham game with me 85 yr old dad. But there’s something that’s not quite there for me at the moment. VAR killing the atmosphere at games is the top  reason why.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Now that is an odd one 😆
		
Click to expand...

I asked him “ are you sure you didn’t fancy him “ 😁


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 3, 2022)

I think Rondon might have found his level 😄


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## Stuart_C (Mar 3, 2022)

Rafa was hounded out for starting Rondon🤔😁


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## Stuart_C (Mar 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			In all honesty,The passion I have for the game is not quite the same as it was . I am able to see football now I never thought I would see in a City shirt. Some of the players I have seen. Well they have made dreams come true. Most folk talk about the Arabs that own City. It only scratches the surface. They own 76% of the club. The other 24% is Chinese state company owned and a American company. It don’t get any worse. Chuck in the previous owner Thaksin Shinawatra. None of it makes good reading. I still go occasionally, twice this year. Once to take Bradley and son for a night time Champs cup game and the Fulham game with me 85 yr old dad. *But there’s something that’s not quite there for me at the moment. *_*VAR killing the atmosphere at games is the top  reason why*_.
		
Click to expand...

Is it the expectation or knowing that you’re almost certainly going to win the game before you’ve even left your house? Being too good  for 90% of teams isn’t competitive.

The use of the tech is the biggest downfall. When VAR is checking something the lack of communication and  the unknown of what’s actually going on is frustrating.

At least the telly clappers are updated and kept entertained though 👍🏻


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## PieMan (Mar 3, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Tash  we come from a generation that we support our team from when we were kids, I was taken to White Heart Lane by my older brother that’s when I first saw Jimmy Greaves, it does get in your blood.

I no longer have the love for football I used to have for various reasons but I will always watch Spurs and support them.

Unless……
I fully understand we as fans want our teams to be successful and win things but if my own club was owned and financed by people I strongly disagree with I think that would be the last straw for me and I couldn’t follow them anymore.

We all have choices to make.

I know you are a old school genuine fan but gave up your season ticket recently which is a shame as I know your a family man and loved taking your grandson to games. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Your story of when you started supporting Spurs is similar to mine and Chelsea.

My uncle took me to my first ever Chelsea game during the 1978/79 season, aged 5. Old First Division. I can honestly still remember snippets of that experience - the wooden seats in the old West Stand and the clicking noise the seats made when everyone stood up, the vivid blue of the Chelsea kit - but also the noise both sets of fans made that day, unlike anything I'd heard to that point. Apparently I was hooked that day and my uncle took me to most home matches.

Now when I say he took me to 'most' what I obviously wasn't aware of was the 'H' word that was surrounding English football at that time, with Chelsea home to some of the worst hooligans around. As I got older, reaching early teens, I then started going either on my own, or with friends. I then became fully aware of the dregs of society that went to Chelsea in those days - the far right, neo-nazi dickheads who loved nothing more than a good punch up.................and hurling racist abuse at not only visiting black players, but our own! 

But despite that, I LOVED going to Chelsea. Win, lose or draw - it was mostly lose during the 80s  - new heroes replaced old. But because of the edginess and nastiness, I watched most of the game behind the infamous electric fence - the old 'if they behave like animals I'll treat them like animals' approach from Ken Bates.

The 80s then gave way to the 90s and things - slowly - started to improve. Following the tragedies at Bradford and Hillsborough, like all grounds the transformation at the Bridge was rapid with facilities and spectator experiences greatly improved. Investment improved the quality on the pitch too, and slowly we started to have success.

So the fortunes of Chelsea as a club (on the pitch) coincides with the break-up of the old Soviet Union. Those of us old enough remember the tearing down of the Berlin wall and the Iron Curtain, with new countries emerging from the yolk of Russian control. But what of Russia itself? Absolute meltdown! I still remember media reports describing it as 'The Wild West on steroids'!! Of course all actively encouraged by the West, eager to exploit this new Russia.

And we have corruption at the highest levels of Russian Government, the emergence of organised crime, and of course the Russian Oligarch - all vying to get control of Russia's vast natural resources, industries and subsequent wealth. And this is where Roman Abramovich takes advantage of the opportunities on offer to make his fortune, ensuring he has all the right political connections..........just as things take a turn for the worse at Chelsea!!

It is well known that, despite the odd success, Chelsea are in trouble - huge debts and are literally on the brink, days away from defaulting on a £75m loan. Enter Roman Abramovic.

If anyone is still with me, here's where I hope I answer Rlburnside's point - from my perspective of course - "we all have choices to make".

So euphoria amongst Chelsea fans, including me. "Who is this fella?"; "He's Russian?" [actually his ancestry is Lithuanian and Belorussian]; "He's Jewish? Why didn't he buy Spurs? Oh he tried and they turned him down? Classic #Spursy"; "He's got HOW much money? Christ, must be dodgy; but aren't they all"!!!

Which then leads to "We're signing who? For how much"; "This Mourinho fella has some balls"; and ultimately "We're champions"!

Apologies that this is so lengthy and I'm sure there are a number who are bored reading this as much as I am typing it, but I am now getting to the crux as to why I will NEVER have a bad word to say about Roman Abramovich, despite how he may have made his wealth.

Everyone knows about the success on the pitch, BUT there's loads off it that Abramovic has encouraged with his wealth and influence in the name of Chelsea, such as:

- countless initiatives in the immediate and wider community to support the fight against anti-semitism, racism and homaphobia;

- going into schools, especially those with a lot of deprived kids, encouraging education;

- supporting environmental causes both in the UK and abroad;

- supporting NHS workers during the pandemic, opening up both hotels at Chelsea and their facilities for the staff at the local hospitals.

So for me it's simple. Roman Abramovic saved my club, and when I compare the Chelsea of when I was a lad, teenager and young adult, to the Chelsea since 2003 and what it has achieved/is trying to achieve both on and off the pitch, I'll take since 2003 thanks each and every time. His legacy to me is also about what he has encouraged off the pitch as well as what he's provided for on it.

I love going to Chelsea with my boys. I tell them about the good and bad days pre-Abramovic; we've experienced the good and bad days with Abramovic; we'll experience together the good and bad days post-Abramovic.


----------



## Rlburnside (Mar 3, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Your story of when you started supporting Spurs is similar to mine and Chelsea.

My uncle took me to my first ever Chelsea game during the 1978/79 season, aged 5. Old First Division. I can honestly still remember snippets of that experience - the wooden seats in the old West Stand and the clicking noise the seats made when everyone stood up, the vivid blue of the Chelsea kit - but also the noise both sets of fans made that day, unlike anything I'd heard to that point. Apparently I was hooked that day and my uncle took me to most home matches.

Now when I say he took me to 'most' what I obviously wasn't aware of was the 'H' word that was surrounding English football at that time, with Chelsea home to some of the worst hooligans around. As I got older, reaching early teens, I then started going either on my own, or with friends. I then became fully aware of the dregs of society that went to Chelsea in those days - the far right, neo-nazi dickheads who loved nothing more than a good punch up.................and hurling racist abuse at not only visiting black players, but our own! 

But despite that, I LOVED going to Chelsea. Win, lose or draw - it was mostly lose during the 80s  - new heroes replaced old. But because of the edginess and nastiness, I watched most of the game behind the infamous electric fence - the old 'if they behave like animals I'll treat them like animals' approach from Ken Bates.

The 80s then gave way to the 90s and things - slowly - started to improve. Following the tragedies at Bradford and Hillsborough, like all grounds the transformation at the Bridge was rapid with facilities and spectator experiences greatly improved. Investment improved the quality on the pitch too, and slowly we started to have success.

So the fortunes of Chelsea as a club (on the pitch) coincides with the break-up of the old Soviet Union. Those of us old enough remember the tearing down of the Berlin wall and the Iron Curtain, with new countries emerging from the yolk of Russian control. But what of Russia itself? Absolute meltdown! I still remember media reports describing it as 'The Wild West on steroids'!! Of course all actively encouraged by the West, eager to exploit this new Russia.

And we have corruption at the highest levels of Russian Government, the emergence of organised crime, and of course the Russian Oligarch - all vying to get control of Russia's vast natural resources, industries and subsequent wealth. And this is where Roman Abramovich takes advantage of the opportunities on offer to make his fortune, ensuring he has all the right political connections..........just as things take a turn for the worse at Chelsea!!

It is well known that, despite the odd success, Chelsea are in trouble - huge debts and are literally on the brink, days away from defaulting on a £75m loan. Enter Roman Abramovic.

If anyone is still with me, here's where I hope I answer Rlburnside's point - from my perspective of course - "we all have choices to make".

So euphoria amongst Chelsea fans, including me. "Who is this fella?"; "He's Russian?" [actually his ancestry is Lithuanian and Belorussian]; "He's Jewish? Why didn't he buy Spurs? Oh he tried and they turned him down? Classic #Spursy"; "He's got HOW much money? Christ, must be dodgy; but aren't they all"!!!

Which then leads to "We're signing who? For how much"; "This Mourinho fella has some balls"; and ultimately "We're champions"!

Apologies that this is so lengthy and I'm sure there are a number who are bored reading this as much as I am typing it, but I am now getting to the crux as to why I will NEVER have a bad word to say about Roman Abramovich, despite how he may have made his wealth.

Everyone knows about the success on the pitch, BUT there's loads off it that Abramovic has encouraged with his wealth and influence in the name of Chelsea, such as:

- countless initiatives in the immediate and wider community to support the fight against anti-semitism, racism and homaphobia;

- going into schools, especially those with a lot of deprived kids, encouraging education;

- supporting environmental causes both in the UK and abroad;

- supporting NHS workers during the pandemic, opening up both hotels at Chelsea and their facilities for the staff at the local hospitals.

So for me it's simple. Roman Abramovic saved my club, and when I compare the Chelsea of when I was a lad, teenager and young adult, to the Chelsea since 2003 and what it has achieved/is trying to achieve both on and off the pitch, I'll take since 2003 thanks each and every time. His legacy to me is also about what he has encouraged off the pitch as well as what he's provided for on it.

I love going to Chelsea with my boys. I tell them about the good and bad days pre-Abramovic; we've experienced the good and bad days with Abramovic; we'll experience together the good and bad days post-Abramovic.
		
Click to expand...

Yes that first experience of going to a match when you were a kid stays with you, there were some dark times years ago thankfully it’s a lot better now. 

I distinctly remember the first time I went to Stamford Bridge as a young teenager and being swept along off my feet in the crush going into the turnstile’s, as a young lad the atmosphere was frightening and exiting at the same time. 

Hearing the stupid irony  of Spurs fans abusing Liam Brady for being Irish and worshiping Pat Jennings, getting beat 5-0 by Arsenal that day wasn’t good.  

Anyway I can’t wish you well for your team but I hope your golf is good 👍


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 4, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Your story of when you started supporting Spurs is similar to mine and Chelsea.

My uncle took me to my first ever Chelsea game during the 1978/79 season, aged 5. Old First Division. I can honestly still remember snippets of that experience - the wooden seats in the old West Stand and the clicking noise the seats made when everyone stood up, the vivid blue of the Chelsea kit - but also the noise both sets of fans made that day, unlike anything I'd heard to that point. Apparently I was hooked that day and my uncle took me to most home matches.

Now when I say he took me to 'most' what I obviously wasn't aware of was the 'H' word that was surrounding English football at that time, with Chelsea home to some of the worst hooligans around. As I got older, reaching early teens, I then started going either on my own, or with friends. I then became fully aware of the dregs of society that went to Chelsea in those days - the far right, neo-nazi dickheads who loved nothing more than a good punch up.................and hurling racist abuse at not only visiting black players, but our own! 

But despite that, I LOVED going to Chelsea. Win, lose or draw - it was mostly lose during the 80s  - new heroes replaced old. But because of the edginess and nastiness, I watched most of the game behind the infamous electric fence - the old 'if they behave like animals I'll treat them like animals' approach from Ken Bates.

The 80s then gave way to the 90s and things - slowly - started to improve. Following the tragedies at Bradford and Hillsborough, like all grounds the transformation at the Bridge was rapid with facilities and spectator experiences greatly improved. Investment improved the quality on the pitch too, and slowly we started to have success.

So the fortunes of Chelsea as a club (on the pitch) coincides with the break-up of the old Soviet Union. Those of us old enough remember the tearing down of the Berlin wall and the Iron Curtain, with new countries emerging from the yolk of Russian control. But what of Russia itself? Absolute meltdown! I still remember media reports describing it as 'The Wild West on steroids'!! Of course all actively encouraged by the West, eager to exploit this new Russia.

And we have corruption at the highest levels of Russian Government, the emergence of organised crime, and of course the Russian Oligarch - all vying to get control of Russia's vast natural resources, industries and subsequent wealth. And this is where Roman Abramovich takes advantage of the opportunities on offer to make his fortune, ensuring he has all the right political connections..........just as things take a turn for the worse at Chelsea!!

It is well known that, despite the odd success, Chelsea are in trouble - huge debts and are literally on the brink, days away from defaulting on a £75m loan. Enter Roman Abramovic.

If anyone is still with me, here's where I hope I answer Rlburnside's point - from my perspective of course - "we all have choices to make".

So euphoria amongst Chelsea fans, including me. "Who is this fella?"; "He's Russian?" [actually his ancestry is Lithuanian and Belorussian]; "He's Jewish? Why didn't he buy Spurs? Oh he tried and they turned him down? Classic #Spursy"; "He's got HOW much money? Christ, must be dodgy; but aren't they all"!!!

Which then leads to "We're signing who? For how much"; "This Mourinho fella has some balls"; and ultimately "We're champions"!

Apologies that this is so lengthy and I'm sure there are a number who are bored reading this as much as I am typing it, but I am now getting to the crux as to why I will NEVER have a bad word to say about Roman Abramovich, despite how he may have made his wealth.

Everyone knows about the success on the pitch, BUT there's loads off it that Abramovic has encouraged with his wealth and influence in the name of Chelsea, such as:

- countless initiatives in the immediate and wider community to support the fight against anti-semitism, racism and homaphobia;

- going into schools, especially those with a lot of deprived kids, encouraging education;

- supporting environmental causes both in the UK and abroad;

- supporting NHS workers during the pandemic, opening up both hotels at Chelsea and their facilities for the staff at the local hospitals.

So for me it's simple. Roman Abramovic saved my club, and when I compare the Chelsea of when I was a lad, teenager and young adult, to the Chelsea since 2003 and what it has achieved/is trying to achieve both on and off the pitch, I'll take since 2003 thanks each and every time. His legacy to me is also about what he has encouraged off the pitch as well as what he's provided for on it.

I love going to Chelsea with my boys. I tell them about the good and bad days pre-Abramovic; we've experienced the good and bad days with Abramovic; we'll experience together the good and bad days post-Abramovic.
		
Click to expand...

Have you got this in a hard back version


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 4, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes that first experience of going to a match when you were a kid stays with you, there were some dark times years ago thankfully it’s a lot better now.

I distinctly remember the first time I went to Stamford Bridge as a young teenager and being swept along off my feet in the crush going into the turnstile’s, as a young lad the atmosphere was frightening and exiting at the same time.

Hearing the stupid irony  of Spurs fans abusing Liam Brady for being Irish and worshiping Pat Jennings, getting beat 5-0 by Arsenal that day wasn’t good. 

Anyway I can’t wish you well for your team but I hope your golf is good 👍
		
Click to expand...

I was lucky(?!) that I use to see Wimbledon at Plough Lane in their old Southern League days and then their first season in the old division four and would go to Fulham the following week. In the end I had to make a decision and preferred the longer bus ride to Putney so chose Fulham. I can still remember Wimbledon's first league game and my first Fulham match clearly. It's like golf and once its in the blood you can't get rid of it


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Your story of when you started supporting Spurs is similar to mine and Chelsea.

My uncle took me to my first ever Chelsea game during the 1978/79 season, aged 5. Old First Division. I can honestly still remember snippets of that experience - the wooden seats in the old West Stand and the clicking noise the seats made when everyone stood up, the vivid blue of the Chelsea kit - but also the noise both sets of fans made that day, unlike anything I'd heard to that point. Apparently I was hooked that day and my uncle took me to most home matches.

Now when I say he took me to 'most' what I obviously wasn't aware of was the 'H' word that was surrounding English football at that time, with Chelsea home to some of the worst hooligans around. As I got older, reaching early teens, I then started going either on my own, or with friends. I then became fully aware of the dregs of society that went to Chelsea in those days - the far right, neo-nazi dickheads who loved nothing more than a good punch up.................and hurling racist abuse at not only visiting black players, but our own! 

But despite that, I LOVED going to Chelsea. Win, lose or draw - it was mostly lose during the 80s  - new heroes replaced old. But because of the edginess and nastiness, I watched most of the game behind the infamous electric fence - the old 'if they behave like animals I'll treat them like animals' approach from Ken Bates.

The 80s then gave way to the 90s and things - slowly - started to improve. Following the tragedies at Bradford and Hillsborough, like all grounds the transformation at the Bridge was rapid with facilities and spectator experiences greatly improved. Investment improved the quality on the pitch too, and slowly we started to have success.

So the fortunes of Chelsea as a club (on the pitch) coincides with the break-up of the old Soviet Union. Those of us old enough remember the tearing down of the Berlin wall and the Iron Curtain, with new countries emerging from the yolk of Russian control. But what of Russia itself? Absolute meltdown! I still remember media reports describing it as 'The Wild West on steroids'!! Of course all actively encouraged by the West, eager to exploit this new Russia.

And we have corruption at the highest levels of Russian Government, the emergence of organised crime, and of course the Russian Oligarch - all vying to get control of Russia's vast natural resources, industries and subsequent wealth. And this is where Roman Abramovich takes advantage of the opportunities on offer to make his fortune, ensuring he has all the right political connections..........just as things take a turn for the worse at Chelsea!!

It is well known that, despite the odd success, Chelsea are in trouble - huge debts and are literally on the brink, days away from defaulting on a £75m loan. Enter Roman Abramovic.

If anyone is still with me, here's where I hope I answer Rlburnside's point - from my perspective of course - "we all have choices to make".

So euphoria amongst Chelsea fans, including me. "Who is this fella?"; "He's Russian?" [actually his ancestry is Lithuanian and Belorussian]; "He's Jewish? Why didn't he buy Spurs? Oh he tried and they turned him down? Classic #Spursy"; "He's got HOW much money? Christ, must be dodgy; but aren't they all"!!!

Which then leads to "We're signing who? For how much"; "This Mourinho fella has some balls"; and ultimately "We're champions"!

Apologies that this is so lengthy and I'm sure there are a number who are bored reading this as much as I am typing it, but I am now getting to the crux as to why I will NEVER have a bad word to say about Roman Abramovich, despite how he may have made his wealth.

Everyone knows about the success on the pitch, BUT there's loads off it that Abramovic has encouraged with his wealth and influence in the name of Chelsea, such as:

- countless initiatives in the immediate and wider community to support the fight against anti-semitism, racism and homaphobia;

- going into schools, especially those with a lot of deprived kids, encouraging education;

- supporting environmental causes both in the UK and abroad;

- supporting NHS workers during the pandemic, opening up both hotels at Chelsea and their facilities for the staff at the local hospitals.

So for me it's simple. Roman Abramovic saved my club, and when I compare the Chelsea of when I was a lad, teenager and young adult, to the Chelsea since 2003 and what it has achieved/is trying to achieve both on and off the pitch, I'll take since 2003 thanks each and every time. His legacy to me is also about what he has encouraged off the pitch as well as what he's provided for on it.

I love going to Chelsea with my boys. I tell them about the good and bad days pre-Abramovic; we've experienced the good and bad days with Abramovic; we'll experience together the good and bad days post-Abramovic.
		
Click to expand...

Great post.

I think RA's biggest legacy is how him and his roubles changed English football. I would never had believed 1 man could do that or the way he did.

We can argue whether it was good or bad but  his extreme wealth changed English football from a Millionaires game to a Billionaires game. Blowing other teams out the water with excessive transfer fees and smashing wage structures.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Have you got this in a hard back version 

Click to expand...

The audio book is out next week....


----------



## backwoodsman (Mar 4, 2022)

First match was when my mum took me to see Forest in 1967. I already 'followed' them as the local team  (Ok, Mansfield was a bit nearer but nobody followed Mansfield ...) T'was v Man Utd and we won 3-1.  We had some good times over the next 15 years or so. Pains me to think our glory days are now 40 (did I just write 40 ??) years ago.


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## backwoodsman (Mar 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Great post.

I think RA's biggest legacy is how him and his roubles changed English football. I would never had believed 1 man could do that or the way he did.

We can argue whether it was good or bad but  his extreme wealth changed English football from a Millionaires game to a Billionaires game. Blowing other teams out the water with excessive transfer fees and smashing wage structures.
		
Click to expand...

I'll argue that it wasn't a change for the better. Vast sums of money have reduced us to a league of 5 (4 really as I dont suppose you should include Arsenal) who most of us don't care about. 
And the rest of us more or less doomed to obscurity because as soon as we get any decent players, the chequebook gets waggled and they are filched away ...


----------



## Jimaroid (Mar 4, 2022)

When you get to the sums involved, all money is tainted. Even huge wealth accumulated entirely “legally” can be dubiously managed and criticised, see for example Amazon, which is entirely legitimate but not exactly fitting with the moral principals of taxation. 

Football was always going to get swayed by money. If it wasn’t an Ambramovich it would have been a Bezos. 

Nice read PieMan, never apologise for writing passionately it wasn’t that long. 👍


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## Swango1980 (Mar 4, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			When you get to the sums involved, all money is tainted. Even huge wealth accumulated entirely “legally” can be dubiously managed and criticised, see for example Amazon, which is entirely legitimate but not exactly fitting with the moral principals of taxation. 

Football was always going to get swayed by money. If it wasn’t an Ambramovich it would have been a Bezos. 

Nice read PieMan, never apologise for writing passionately it wasn’t that long. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Maybe all money is tainted if you really look into the detail, however it doesn't make it at the same level. 

Somebody might have a very strong opinion that they would not be friends with a serial killer as they fundamentally disagree with their criminal lifestyle. A counter argument of "you could apply this to most friends, as one might have stolen a Mars Bar in their youth or gone 35mph in a 30 zone" would be fairly weak.

I've not actually looked into Abramovich made his billions. But, I suspect his alleged crimes may be considered at a higher level of taintness than a company trying to find legal loopholes in saving money on tax?


----------



## Dando (Mar 4, 2022)




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## chrisd (Mar 4, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Your story of when you started supporting Spurs is similar to mine and Chelsea.

My uncle took me to my first ever Chelsea game during the 1978/79 season, aged 5. Old First Division. I can honestly still remember snippets of that experience - the wooden seats in the old West Stand and the clicking noise the seats made when everyone stood up, the vivid blue of the Chelsea kit - but also the noise both sets of fans made that day, unlike anything I'd heard to that point. Apparently I was hooked that day and my uncle took me to most home matches.

Now when I say he took me to 'most' what I obviously wasn't aware of was the 'H' word that was surrounding English football at that time, with Chelsea home to some of the worst hooligans around. As I got older, reaching early teens, I then started going either on my own, or with friends. I then became fully aware of the dregs of society that went to Chelsea in those days - the far right, neo-nazi dickheads who loved nothing more than a good punch up.................and hurling racist abuse at not only visiting black players, but our own! 

But despite that, I LOVED going to Chelsea. Win, lose or draw - it was mostly lose during the 80s  - new heroes replaced old. But because of the edginess and nastiness, I watched most of the game behind the infamous electric fence - the old 'if they behave like animals I'll treat them like animals' approach from Ken Bates.

The 80s then gave way to the 90s and things - slowly - started to improve. Following the tragedies at Bradford and Hillsborough, like all grounds the transformation at the Bridge was rapid with facilities and spectator experiences greatly improved. Investment improved the quality on the pitch too, and slowly we started to have success.

So the fortunes of Chelsea as a club (on the pitch) coincides with the break-up of the old Soviet Union. Those of us old enough remember the tearing down of the Berlin wall and the Iron Curtain, with new countries emerging from the yolk of Russian control. But what of Russia itself? Absolute meltdown! I still remember media reports describing it as 'The Wild West on steroids'!! Of course all actively encouraged by the West, eager to exploit this new Russia.

And we have corruption at the highest levels of Russian Government, the emergence of organised crime, and of course the Russian Oligarch - all vying to get control of Russia's vast natural resources, industries and subsequent wealth. And this is where Roman Abramovich takes advantage of the opportunities on offer to make his fortune, ensuring he has all the right political connections..........just as things take a turn for the worse at Chelsea!!

It is well known that, despite the odd success, Chelsea are in trouble - huge debts and are literally on the brink, days away from defaulting on a £75m loan. Enter Roman Abramovic.

If anyone is still with me, here's where I hope I answer Rlburnside's point - from my perspective of course - "we all have choices to make".

So euphoria amongst Chelsea fans, including me. "Who is this fella?"; "He's Russian?" [actually his ancestry is Lithuanian and Belorussian]; "He's Jewish? Why didn't he buy Spurs? Oh he tried and they turned him down? Classic #Spursy"; "He's got HOW much money? Christ, must be dodgy; but aren't they all"!!!

Which then leads to "We're signing who? For how much"; "This Mourinho fella has some balls"; and ultimately "We're champions"!

Apologies that this is so lengthy and I'm sure there are a number who are bored reading this as much as I am typing it, but I am now getting to the crux as to why I will NEVER have a bad word to say about Roman Abramovich, despite how he may have made his wealth.

Everyone knows about the success on the pitch, BUT there's loads off it that Abramovic has encouraged with his wealth and influence in the name of Chelsea, such as:

- countless initiatives in the immediate and wider community to support the fight against anti-semitism, racism and homaphobia;

- going into schools, especially those with a lot of deprived kids, encouraging education;

- supporting environmental causes both in the UK and abroad;

- supporting NHS workers during the pandemic, opening up both hotels at Chelsea and their facilities for the staff at the local hospitals.

So for me it's simple. Roman Abramovic saved my club, and when I compare the Chelsea of when I was a lad, teenager and young adult, to the Chelsea since 2003 and what it has achieved/is trying to achieve both on and off the pitch, I'll take since 2003 thanks each and every time. His legacy to me is also about what he has encouraged off the pitch as well as what he's provided for on it.

I love going to Chelsea with my boys. I tell them about the good and bad days pre-Abramovic; we've experienced the good and bad days with Abramovic; we'll experience together the good and bad days post-Abramovic.
		
Click to expand...

All sounds exactly as I remember back then. Very much the same as when I went to Selhurst Park, crowds were very good in the mid to late 60's but then the nutters took over and I stopped going for a while when I saw a brick thrown into the away stand against QPR. I agree that Abramovich has been good for Chelsea and how they will fare now I'm not too sure but, as I said to BIM, at least the managers safe fore a while 😁😁


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



*Is it the expectation or knowing that you’re almost certainly going to win the game before you’ve even left your house? Being too good  for 90% of teams isn’t competitive.*

The use of the tech is the biggest downfall. When VAR is checking something the lack of communication and  the unknown of what’s actually going on is frustrating.

At least the telly clappers are updated and kept entertained though 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

There may well be a lot in this, that’s maybe why I am happy that at the start of the season there’s always the chance that. 3 or 4 teams are in with a chance of winning the title but it then tends to fizzle out. Back when Utd were so dominant I remembe thinking how many will we get battered by. Then it became a fair chance of beating them. Now it seems how many we can beat Utd by. That’s why when we get beat by Spurs etc you give credit where it’s due.


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 4, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			I'll argue that it wasn't a change for the better. Vast sums of money have reduced us to a league of 5 (4 really as I dont suppose you should include Arsenal) who most of us don't care about.
And the rest of us more or less doomed to obscurity because as soon as we get any decent players, the chequebook gets waggled and they are filched away ...
		
Click to expand...

You seem to have overlooked/forgotten the 80s with the so called big 5. Realistically it was only the big 2, and only one of the big 2 (I'm not forgetting Everton) won the league. In the 90s there was only 1 team. At least now, at the start of every season, you expect a few teams to be in with a chance, at least until  Christmas


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			First match was when my mum took me to see Forest in 1967. I already 'followed' them as the local team  (*Ok, Mansfield was a bit nearer but nobody followed Mansfield *...) T'was v Man Utd and we won 3-1.  We had some good times over the next 15 years or so. Pains me to think our glory days are now 40 (did I just write 40 ??) years ago.
		
Click to expand...

shocking, your on ignore for 20 minutes 😉


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			I'll argue that it wasn't a change for the better. Vast sums of money have reduced us to a league of 5 (4 really as I dont suppose you should include Arsenal) who most of us don't care about. 
And the rest of us more or less doomed to obscurity because as soon as we get any decent players, the chequebook gets waggled and they are filched away ...
		
Click to expand...

Fair points well made. 

I think once the PL was voted and agreed for, it was inevitable the rest of football would suffer. 

Once RA turned up the rest had to increase their own Budgets to try to keep up with the jones' and compete. Unfortunately some like Leeds were mismanaged and spiralled into huge debt.

The only club that never really suffered was Yernited as they were already turning over some real good matchday numbers (£1m per game iirc) compared to their competitors. Aswell as having a really good squad of players, they only had to spend big on 1 player to keep challenging.

Others were expected to compete by spending £20m a season.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 4, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Your story of when you started supporting Spurs is similar to mine and Chelsea.

My uncle took me to my first ever Chelsea game during the 1978/79 season, aged 5. Old First Division. I can honestly still remember snippets of that experience - the wooden seats in the old West Stand and the clicking noise the seats made when everyone stood up, the vivid blue of the Chelsea kit - but also the noise both sets of fans made that day, unlike anything I'd heard to that point. Apparently I was hooked that day and my uncle took me to most home matches.

Now when I say he took me to 'most' what I obviously wasn't aware of was the 'H' word that was surrounding English football at that time, with Chelsea home to some of the worst hooligans around. As I got older, reaching early teens, I then started going either on my own, or with friends. I then became fully aware of the dregs of society that went to Chelsea in those days - the far right, neo-nazi dickheads who loved nothing more than a good punch up.................and hurling racist abuse at not only visiting black players, but our own! 

But despite that, I LOVED going to Chelsea. Win, lose or draw - it was mostly lose during the 80s  - new heroes replaced old. But because of the edginess and nastiness, I watched most of the game behind the infamous electric fence - the old 'if they behave like animals I'll treat them like animals' approach from Ken Bates.

The 80s then gave way to the 90s and things - slowly - started to improve. Following the tragedies at Bradford and Hillsborough, like all grounds the transformation at the Bridge was rapid with facilities and spectator experiences greatly improved. Investment improved the quality on the pitch too, and slowly we started to have success.

So the fortunes of Chelsea as a club (on the pitch) coincides with the break-up of the old Soviet Union. Those of us old enough remember the tearing down of the Berlin wall and the Iron Curtain, with new countries emerging from the yolk of Russian control. But what of Russia itself? Absolute meltdown! I still remember media reports describing it as 'The Wild West on steroids'!! Of course all actively encouraged by the West, eager to exploit this new Russia.

And we have corruption at the highest levels of Russian Government, the emergence of organised crime, and of course the Russian Oligarch - all vying to get control of Russia's vast natural resources, industries and subsequent wealth. And this is where Roman Abramovich takes advantage of the opportunities on offer to make his fortune, ensuring he has all the right political connections..........just as things take a turn for the worse at Chelsea!!

It is well known that, despite the odd success, Chelsea are in trouble - huge debts and are literally on the brink, days away from defaulting on a £75m loan. Enter Roman Abramovic.

If anyone is still with me, here's where I hope I answer Rlburnside's point - from my perspective of course - "we all have choices to make".

So euphoria amongst Chelsea fans, including me. "Who is this fella?"; "He's Russian?" [actually his ancestry is Lithuanian and Belorussian]; "He's Jewish? Why didn't he buy Spurs? Oh he tried and they turned him down? Classic #Spursy"; "He's got HOW much money? Christ, must be dodgy; but aren't they all"!!!

Which then leads to "We're signing who? For how much"; "This Mourinho fella has some balls"; and ultimately "We're champions"!

Apologies that this is so lengthy and I'm sure there are a number who are bored reading this as much as I am typing it, but I am now getting to the crux as to why I will NEVER have a bad word to say about Roman Abramovich, despite how he may have made his wealth.

Everyone knows about the success on the pitch, BUT there's loads off it that Abramovic has encouraged with his wealth and influence in the name of Chelsea, such as:

- countless initiatives in the immediate and wider community to support the fight against anti-semitism, racism and homaphobia;

- going into schools, especially those with a lot of deprived kids, encouraging education;

- supporting environmental causes both in the UK and abroad;

- supporting NHS workers during the pandemic, opening up both hotels at Chelsea and their facilities for the staff at the local hospitals.

So for me it's simple. Roman Abramovic saved my club, and when I compare the Chelsea of when I was a lad, teenager and young adult, to the Chelsea since 2003 and what it has achieved/is trying to achieve both on and off the pitch, I'll take since 2003 thanks each and every time. His legacy to me is also about what he has encouraged off the pitch as well as what he's provided for on it.

I love going to Chelsea with my boys. I tell them about the good and bad days pre-Abramovic; we've experienced the good and bad days with Abramovic; we'll experience together the good and bad days post-Abramovic.
		
Click to expand...

My first game was a Chelsea v Man Utd that my Dad took me to in 1974.  Dad, bless him, wasn’t a football man so just followed the crowds into the first entrance he saw; straight into the away end!  The United fans were quite friendly and it was no problem, we were even given tea from their flasks. At 3-0 down, Dad decided it was best to best the rush so I was dragged away early, missing Bill Garner’s consolation goal.

My parents were obviously aware of the hooligan issue but in 1978 I was deemed sensible enough to go on my own, and have been going regularly ever since. 

The rest of Pieman’s post sums up my feelings on Roman perfectly. I, and everyone I go with, will be eternally grateful for what he has done and the fact that we still exist as a club.

People ask how you can support a club with an owner like that.  The answer is they were the family’s local club (Mum’s family were all from Battersea) and I’d been supporting them long before Roman arrived. It’s where you go, where you meet your mates and it’s part of you. It’s not quite that easy.

Look hard enough and I’d wager you’ll find something unsavoury about all clubs. Seem to remember a club that only got its new stadium after the one business that didn’t want to sell up and move to accommodate it suffered an unfortunate fire…


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe all money is tainted if you really look into the detail, however it doesn't make it at the same level.

Somebody might have a very strong opinion that they would not be friends with a serial killer as they fundamentally disagree with their criminal lifestyle. A counter argument of "you could apply this to most friends, as one might have stolen a Mars Bar in their youth or gone 35mph in a 30 zone" would be fairly weak.

I've not actually looked into Abramovich made his billions. But, I suspect his alleged crimes may be considered at a higher level of taintness than a company trying to find legal loopholes in saving money on tax?
		
Click to expand...

Should we have a league table based on the scale of tainted owners? Is it like prison where all are guilty but some are crimers are worserer (yes I know that is a made up word ). Who judges the levels of tainted, Big Vinny and his crew?


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## PieMan (Mar 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			The audio book is out next week....
		
Click to expand...

I need you to voice the Scouse version!


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 4, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			My first game was a Chelsea v Man Utd that my Dad took me to in 1974.  Dad, bless him, wasn’t a football man so just followed the crowds into the first entrance he saw; straight into the away end!  The United fans were quite friendly and it was no problem, we were even given tea from their flasks. At 3-0 down, Dad decided it was best to best the rush so I was dragged away early, missing Bill Garner’s consolation goal.

My parents were obviously aware of the hooligan issue but in 1978 I was deemed sensible enough to go on my own, and have been going regularly ever since.

The rest of Pieman’s post sums up my feelings on Roman perfectly. I, and everyone I go with, will be eternally grateful for what he has done and the fact that we still exist as a club.

People ask how you can support a club with an owner like that.  The answer is they were the family’s local club (Mum’s family were all from Battersea) and I’d been supporting them long before Roman arrived. It’s where you go, where you meet your mates and it’s part of you. It’s not quite that easy.

Look hard enough and I’d wager you’ll find something unsavoury about all clubs. Seem to remember a club that only got its new stadium after the one business that didn’t want to sell up and move to accommodate it suffered an unfortunate fire…
		
Click to expand...

As you get more into it and start going to away games as well thats where friendships for life a made, you have shared experiences to look back on and some stories to tell. Went to loads of grounds mainly at the bottom end of the league with Fulham and yes some places were hairier than others during the dark days (Birmingham away being very scary) but I wouldn't have missed it. I don't go as often these days (maybe 5-6 times a year) but there will always be Fulham in my DNA. Don't forget we had Al-Fayed's millions and so we're not untarnished by dodgy money


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Fair points well made.

I think once the PL was voted and agreed for, it was inevitable the rest of football would suffer.

Once RA turned up the rest had to increase their own Budgets to try to keep up with the jones' and compete. Unfortunately some like Leeds were mismanaged and spiralled into huge debt.

The only club that never really suffered was Yernited as they were already turning over some real good matchday numbers (£1m per game iirc) compared to their competitors. Aswell as having a really good squad of players, they only had to spend big on 1 player to keep challenging.

Others were expected to compete by spending £20m a season.
		
Click to expand...

I think you’re being a little bit oot to put a lot of the blame on RA, Chelsea were not a struggling Club when he took over, they’d been a top 6 Club for the previous 7-8 seasons and top 2-4 for a few of those, they had a decent structure in place.

It was 12 years after the PL had started and suffered in that 1 team had really dominated the PL since day 1 with only Arsenal threatening Utd’s dominance.
Leeds were relegated and made insolvent the same season RA took over, so is not related.

It is possible to see that without RA coming in to Chelsea we’d of had Utd and Arsenal continue with that dominance for even longer. In fact we’ve had more teams win the PL since RA took over at Chelsea than we’d had prior to this.

Sadly mate, we older fans are sounding more and more like our dad’s in that, “it was far better in my day” etc, but look at it from your own son’s pov or the generstion that have only experienced the PL, why should they go back to crappier players or only seeing a match once a week on MOTD?

The PL is now the biggest watched league in the world with over 4.5 billion watching it last season, without that no foreign investor would be interested, look at the overseas deals the PL Clubs have.

I don’t think it is as bad as some make out, yes there are problems and elements we all don’t like, I just don’t think any of us are being entirely honest when we look at were we are and the effect RA had on the PL, if anything, it was the Bosman ruling that had a bigger detrimental effect imo.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Should we have a league table based on the scale of tainted owners? Is it like prison where all are guilty but some are crimers are worserer (yes I know that is a made up word ). *Who judges the levels of tainted*, Big Vinny and his crew?
		
Click to expand...

Liverpoolphil?


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## Jimaroid (Mar 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I've not actually looked into Abramovich made his billions. But, I suspect his alleged crimes may be considered at a higher level of taintness than a company trying to find legal loopholes in saving money on tax?
		
Click to expand...

Legality depends on the reference point. Law is a reflection of social history. Because societies evolve differently, the west vs east in this case, Abramovich made a fortune exploiting the laws of the Russian society that did and didn't exist following the collapse of the USSR. To us in the west it might appear criminal, to what they had in the east it seems legal. 

The one thing I'd say about Abramovich is that he's spent a lot of his dirty fortune helping people in the UK live a better life, through taxation, employment, entertainment and charity. He didn't have to, maybe he's trying to buy his place in heaven and right some of his past wrongs. Who knows but there are a lot of worse people with more and less money to their name than him.


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## Dando (Mar 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Have you got this in a hard back version 

Click to expand...

Sod the book, I can’t wait for “Pieman:the movie”
not sure who’ll play the man himself though


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## chrisd (Mar 4, 2022)

PieMan said:



			I need you to voice the Scouse version! 

Click to expand...

hopefully it wont sound like that Carragher fella 😖😖


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

PieMan said:



			I need you to voice the Scouse version! 

Click to expand...

I'll just go straight to '86 Gillespie....Whelan.....DOGLEASH!!!!!!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Liverpoolphil?
		
Click to expand...

Please dont encourage him🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Liverpoolphil?
		
Click to expand...




Stuart_C said:



			Please dont encourage him🤦🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

^^^ wot he said


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

The football landscape first changed with Premier League but even more so when the CL grew and jumped on the Telly right’s bandwagon and it was starting to become a closed shop 

Man Utd made use of the new money , Newcastle tried to spend their way in the same Blackburn did but this guys are just millionaires - Abramovich was the first billionaire and changed the landscape massively, there was unlimited budgets for spending and also wages , the spending was all within the rules at the time 

They then changed the rules and to ensure that Billionares couldn’t just bank roll teams 

And then the state sponsership clubs arrived and the landscape changed again - they didn’t care about the rules and looked at every single which way possible to spend as much as th y can bypassing the rules and hiding their spending - that imo was/is financial cheating. Just look at the clubs recent accounts -every club is making a small loss of sorts because of Covid , a lack of match day revenues and drops in commercial revenue and then you have one club that’s amazingly managed to make “record commercial profits” and it’s no surprise that these “partners” will have some link the owner - and then you add on the states who own the clubs own actions to their people and others 

football is money driven - people play FIFA or Football manager and they want to see their club act the same way , they don’t care about debt or loans they just want to see money spent - it’s amazing how the transfer window has been such a big entity ,’and that’s driven by the likes of Sky. I remember when we didn’t sign Werner - social media went mental because and demanded the owners leave because we didn’t buy him. We have fans that see City etc spend and want to see the same - our owners have had their issues ( super league , ticket prices etc ) but the biggest complaint you see on a daily basis is that they don’t spend their own money buying players ?! It astounds me - we have a model that works yet for some it’s not good enough and it’s all boils down to the same thing - spending money on players or big wages


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I think you’re being a little bit oot to put a lot of the blame on RA, Chelsea were not a struggling Club when he took over, they’d been a top 6 Club for the previous 7-8 seasons and top 2-4 for a few of those, they had a decent structure in place.

It was 12 years after the PL had started and suffered in that 1 team had really dominated the PL since day 1 with only Arsenal threatening Utd’s dominance.
Leeds were relegated and made insolvent the same season RA took over, so is not related.

It is possible to see that without RA coming in to Chelsea we’d of had Utd and Arsenal continue with that dominance for even longer. In fact we’ve had more teams win the PL since RA took over at Chelsea than we’d had prior to this.

Sadly mate, we older fans are sounding more and more like our dad’s in that, “it was far better in my day” etc, but look at it from your own son’s pov or the generstion that have only experienced the PL, why should they go back to crappier players or only seeing a match once a week on MOTD?

The PL is now the biggest watched league in the world with over 4.5 billion watching it last season, without that no foreign investor would be interested, look at the overseas deals the PL Clubs have.

I don’t think it is as bad as some make out, yes there are problems and elements we all don’t like, I just don’t think any of us are being entirely honest when we look at were we are and the effect RA had on the PL, if anything, it was the Bosman ruling that had a bigger detrimental effect imo.
		
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I'm not blaming RA for Leeds, your right as it was before he arrived,  it was an example of how teams tried to keep up with the more powerful ones at the time

Lets be honest without massive investments in such a short space of time  Blackburn, Chelsea and City wouldn't have won the league so soon. That's not to say they wouldn't have won it. 

RA encouraged the excessive wages and transfer fees because he could. 

The Bosman has made a greater impact on world football. All clubs in the worlds domestic leagues have suffered at somepoint.

RA changed the standard of ownership in the PL. Milliomaired are not enough.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The football landscape first changed with Premier League but even more so when the CL grew and jumped on the Telly right’s bandwagon and it was starting to become a closed shop

Man Utd made use of the new money , Newcastle tried to spend their way in the same Blackburn did but this guys are just millionaires - Abramovich was the first billionaire and changed the landscape massively, there was unlimited budgets for spending and also wages , the spending was all within the rules at the time

They then changed the rules and to ensure that Billionares couldn’t just bank roll teams

And then the state sponsership clubs arrived and the landscape changed again - they didn’t care about the rules and looked at every single which way possible to spend as much as th y can bypassing the rules and hiding their spending - that imo was/is financial cheating. Just look at the clubs recent accounts -every club is making a small loss of sorts because of Covid , a lack of match day revenues and drops in commercial revenue and then you have one club that’s amazingly managed to make “record commercial profits” and it’s no surprise that these “partners” will have some link the owner - and then you add on the states who own the clubs own actions to their people and others

football is money driven - people play FIFA or Football manager and they want to see their club act the same way , they don’t care about debt or loans they just want to see money spent - it’s amazing how the transfer window has been such a big entity ,’and that’s driven by the likes of Sky. I remember when we didn’t sign Werner - social media went mental because and demanded the owners leave because we didn’t buy him. We have fans that see City etc spend and want to see the same - our owners have had their issues ( super league , ticket prices etc ) but the biggest complaint you see on a daily basis is that they don’t spend their own money buying players ?! It astounds me - *we have a model that works *yet for some it’s not good enough and it’s all boils down to the same thing - spending money on players or big wages
		
Click to expand...

Damn right you do. Credit where its due. 

Your recruitment under Klopp has been awesome to be fair. You could only argue one player was "expensive" in the current market and hes been worth every penny and more - VVD.

The moment City spent 100m on a player, they entered another stratosphere for me... Its absolutely mind blowing money. They always brought around 40-60 mill but now it seems thats too cheap for Pep!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Damn right you do. Credit where its due.

Your recruitment under Klopp has been awesome to be fair. You could only argue one player was "expensive" in the current market and hes been worth every penny and more - VVD.

The moment City spent 100m on a player, they entered another stratosphere for me... Its absolutely mind blowing money. They always brought around 40-60 mill but now it seems thats too cheap for Pep!
		
Click to expand...

Alisson £65 million.
VVD only cost that much because of an illegal approach!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not blaming RA for Leeds, your right as it was before he arrived,  it was an example of how teams tried to keep up with the more powerful ones at the time

Lets be honest without massive investments in such a short space of time  Blackburn, Chelsea and City wouldn't have won the league so soon. That's not to say they wouldn't have won it.

RA encouraged the excessive wages and transfer fees because he could.

The Bosman has made a greater impact on world football. All clubs in the worlds domestic leagues have suffered at somepoint.

RA changed the standard of ownership in the PL. Milliomaired are not enough.
		
Click to expand...

I took your comment on Leeds as you said it was after RA turned up.👍🏻

Try and remember the 90’s, the PL was dominated by 1 Club more than it’s ever been, I agree RA took spending and wages to another level, but he had no choice to get to the next level, at least they were there or there about.

City, regardless of having a great history, came from nowhere, just as Newcastle will do.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Damn right you do. Credit where its due.

Your recruitment under Klopp has been awesome to be fair. You could only argue one player was "expensive" in the current market and hes been worth every penny and more - VVD.

The moment City spent 100m on a player, they entered another stratosphere for me... Its absolutely mind blowing money. They always brought around 40-60 mill but now it seems thats too cheap for Pep!
		
Click to expand...

VVD cost us a bit more because of the issues in the summer , we prob would have got him for about £50mil in the summer if they had done things right 

But the two big purchases VVD and Alisson were paid using the money from Coutinho , it’s a self sufficient model , we spend the money we make and no more than that, for some that’s not enough because the “net spend” is so low - they point fingers at other clubs and use them as comparison. But that’s the way of football now - spending and transfers is bigger news at times than clubs winning trophies.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Alisson £65 million.
VVD only cost that much because of an illegal approach!
		
Click to expand...

Top keepers cost around that. I dont think 65 is too high for a player who was 25 when he signed and can play for 10 years plus. Id call that good value.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Top keepers cost around that. I dont think 65 is too high for a player who was 25 when he signed and can play for 10 years plus. Id call that good value.
		
Click to expand...

At the time it was the world record for a keeper.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VVD cost us a bit more because of the issues in the summer , we prob would have got him for about £50mil in the summer if they had done things right

But the two big purchases VVD and Alisson were paid using the money from Coutinho , it’s a self sufficient model , we spend the money we make and no more than that, for some that’s not enough because the “net spend” is so low - they point fingers at other clubs and use them as comparison. But that’s the way of football now - spending and transfers is bigger news at times than clubs winning trophies.
		
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Come on Phil, Coutinho forced a move, it was never about balancing the books! Klopp new who he wanted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on Phil, Coutinho forced a move, it was never about balancing the books! Klopp new who he wanted.
		
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🤷‍♂️ Sorry I’m not sure what point you’re addressing - the Coutinho move was going to happen at some point and the club used the funds to bring in VVD at a higher fee and then also use the money to bring in Alisson and others. 

The club still work to a financial model - self sustaining, they spend what money the club generates , the only loans are for infrastructure which the club then pay back - the will always balance the books


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## Bdill93 (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			At the time it was the world record for a keeper.

Click to expand...

Even still, fantastic value for one of the top 5 keepers in the world.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️ Sorry I’m not sure what point you’re addressing - the Coutinho move was going to happen at some point and the club used the funds to bring in VVD at a higher fee and then also use the money to bring in Alisson and others.

The club still work to a financial model - self sustaining, they spend what money the club generates , the only loans are for infrastructure which the club then pay back - the will always balance the books
		
Click to expand...

He spent £113 mil on 3 players in between VVD and Alisson, so how and why do you always equate the Coutinho money with them 2.

I admire the model you are now forced to adopt, but at the time Klopp stated he didn’t know he was going to lose Coutinho so if he’d of stayed were would the money have come from? You make it sound like it was all part of some clever plan!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on Phil, Coutinho forced a move, it was never about balancing the books! Klopp new who he wanted.
		
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Coutinho certainly did and i dont think anyone is suggesting Liverpool sold him without him knowing etc. 

Things have changed massively in the recruitment dept at Liverpool, and i think other clubs are looking to replicate the same model. We went from a "transfer committee" to a proper sporting director.  

Above all,  the books do have to be balanced with these owners  and they dont want to go down the bank rolling the club route. 

Yes we spend money and have spent really good money on players, but we've recouped a hell of a lot more than i thought we would've.

So for once, LP is right🤦🏼‍♂️😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			He spent £113 mil on 3 players in between VVD and Alisson, so how and why do you always equate the Coutinho money with them 2.

I admire the model you are now forced to adopt, but at the time Klopp stated he didn’t know he was going to lose Coutinho so if he’d of stayed were would the money have come from?
		
Click to expand...

We have sold other players and we have had money coming in from other commercial revenues - the accounts are pretty clear for all to see and it’s been the same since FSG bought the club hence why the net spend is always low - the Coutinho money went into the clubs coffers to use on player purchases

Who knows what would have happened if Coutinho stayed - we might have just bought VVD and not the others in that one summer ,  but the owners still wouldn’t have funded a spending spree just like they haven’t at any stage of their ownership. What’s the point in dealing “what if” - Coutinho did leave and the club did use the money to strengthen the squad , whether that be Fabinho , VVD , Allison or even Shaqiri

But the model IMO is what all clubs should be using - clubs should be forced imo to spend only what they earn and then rely on being well run , better recruitment and player development


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I took your comment on Leeds as you said it was after RA turned up.👍🏻

Try and remember the 90’s, the PL was dominated by 1 Club more than it’s ever been, I agree RA took spending and wages to another level, but he had no choice to get to the next level, at least they were there or there about.

City, regardless of having a great history, came from nowhere, just as Newcastle will do.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah i know it read like that, apologies. 

The 90's Yernited team dominated but Arsenal also challenged them. The transfer fees were creeping up year on year but no one was really outspending eachother by much.

RA Chelsea were blowing teams out the water with fees and wages. He couldve grown chelsea steadily but he chose his way and its proved to work for him and Chelsea. 

I'm not complaining or harking for a return to the good old days per se, its just how i see RA legacy in English football.

Yernited also touched lucky bringing through all those kids they did at the same time. They never had to really buy 3 or 4 players in 1 season. It was always 1 real top player to add to the squad.I dont think that'll ever happen again in my life time.

It good to have a debate instead of the usual bickering.


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## GreiginFife (Mar 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah i know it read like that, apologies.

The 90's Yernited team dominated but Arsenal also challenged them. The transfer fees were creeping up year on year but no one was really outspending eachother by much.

RA Chelsea were blowing teams out the water with fees and wages. *He couldve grown chelsea steadily but he chose his way and its proved to work for him and Chelsea*.

I'm not complaining or harking for a return to the good old days per se, its just how i see RA legacy in English football.

Yernited also touched lucky bringing through all those kids they did at the same time. They never had to really buy 3 or 4 players in 1 season. It was always 1 real top player to add to the squad.I dont think that'll ever happen again in my life time.

It good to have a debate instead of the usual bickering.
		
Click to expand...

Late to this particular party but Abramovich demonstrated the very Rusiian ethos on the bold bit. They seem to crave success or to be seen to be the best and employ any method to achieve this. Doping, financial or otherwise is very much in their arsenal, proven time and time again. 

United did luck out with the kids coming through but they also, along with quite a few clubs in the 90s, had decent academies. The arrival of big money in to the game, driving that "instant success" culture actually promoted the move away from development of talent to buying talent (ironically, often from clubs that have strong academy development systems...). 

Now, I'm not saying that RA is responsible for that, but certainly culpable in the act of triggering the dominos, toppling the explosions (mix your own metaphor here)....

As viewed by someone that has zero skin in the English game.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 4, 2022)

I can but hope…


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Late to this particular party but Abramovich demonstrated the very Rusiian ethos on the bold bit. They seem to crave success or to be seen to be the best and employ any method to achieve this. Doping, financial or otherwise is very much in their arsenal, proven time and time again. 

United did luck out with the kids coming through but they also, along with quite a few clubs in the 90s, had decent academies. The arrival of big money in to the game, driving that "instant success" culture actually promoted the move away from development of talent to buying talent (ironically, often from clubs that have strong academy development systems...). 

Now, I'm not saying that RA is responsible for that, but certainly culpable in the act of triggering the dominos, toppling the explosions (mix your own metaphor here)....

As viewed by someone that has zero skin in the English game.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. 

Pre RA at Chelsea, managers were given time to get a team together, nowadays most managers are judged on 2 transfer windows and are as quickly sacked.

That said i think society has gone that way too.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah i know it read like that, apologies.

The 90's Yernited team dominated but Arsenal also challenged them. The transfer fees were creeping up year on year but no one was really outspending eachother by much.

RA Chelsea were blowing teams out the water with fees and wages. He couldve grown chelsea steadily but he chose his way and its proved to work for him and Chelsea.

I'm not complaining or harking for a return to the good old days per se, its just how i see RA legacy in English football.

Yernited also touched lucky bringing through all those kids they did at the same time. They never had to really buy 3 or 4 players in 1 season. It was always 1 real top player to add to the squad.I dont think that'll ever happen again in my life time.

It good to have a debate instead of the usual bickering.
		
Click to expand...

Isn’t that the point though mate? Pre RA the PL was won 8 times by Utd, 3 by Arsenal and Blackburn, RA’s approach woke other Clubs up and now more teams are in with a shout.

As for spends etc, absolutely agree the Lpool approach would be ideal for everyone, but that’s today’s position and if you choose to ignore the previous 15-20yrs and we’ll never have a level starting point to get there.

Utd did spend a bit, not Chelsea or City standard, but certainly a lot relative to the period, Blomquist, Stam, O’Shea, Yorke plus others in 1 season, Carroll, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Verón, Laurent Blanc and Diego Forlán in one other etc.

If any Club should get stick for spends and how they are run, it is Utd, just look at the debt their owners have caused, where as Chelsea have been debt free since 2008.

So to pick RA out and lay all the issues of the PL on him is unfair as previously said, the PL issues started before him and were made worse after him.

Look at the were the majority of Clubs get their money from and why? Maybe they should be thanking RA for spending the way he did as I believe every PL Club has benefitted from the knock on effect.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Isn’t that the point though mate? Pre RA the PL was won 8 times by Utd, 3 by Arsenal and Blackburn, RA’s approach woke other Clubs up and now more teams are in with a shout.

As for spends etc, absolutely agree the Lpool approach would be ideal for everyone, but that’s today’s position and if you choose to ignore the previous 15-20yrs and we’ll never have a level starting point to get there.

Utd did spend a bit, not Chelsea or City standard, but certainly a lot relative to the period, Blomquist, Stam, O’Shea, Yorke plus others in 1 season, Carroll, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Verón, Laurent Blanc and Diego Forlán in one other etc.

If any Club should get stick for spends and how they are run, it is Utd, just look at the debt their owners have caused, where as Chelsea have been debt free since 2008.

So to pick RA out and lay all the issues of the PL on him is unfair as previously said, the PL issues started before him and were made worse after him.

Look at the were the majority of Clubs get their money from and why? Maybe they should be thanking RA for spending the way he did as I believe every PL Club has benefitted from the knock on effect.
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea are £1bn in debt to the owner - not exactly debt free as such

And Utd’s debt has come from the leveraged buy out from the owners


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Chelsea are £1bn in debt to the owner - not exactly debt free as such

And Utd’s debt has come from the leveraged buy out from the owners
		
Click to expand...

He’s written off the debt in his statement this week.🤷‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Isn’t that the point though mate? Pre RA the PL was won 8 times by Utd, 3 by Arsenal and Blackburn, RA’s approach woke other Clubs up and now more teams are in with a shout.

As for spends etc, absolutely agree the Lpool approach would be ideal for everyone, but that’s today’s position and if you choose to ignore the previous 15-20yrs and we’ll never have a level starting point to get there.

Utd did spend a bit, not Chelsea or City standard, but certainly a lot relative to the period, Blomquist, Stam, O’Shea, Yorke plus others in 1 season, Carroll, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Verón, Laurent Blanc and Diego Forlán in one other etc.

If any Club should get stick for spends and how they are run, it is Utd, just look at the debt their owners have caused, where as Chelsea have been debt free since 2008.

*So to pick RA out and lay all the issues of the PL on him is unfair as previously said, the PL issues started before him and were made worse after him.*

Look at the were the majority of Clubs get their money from and why? Maybe they should be thanking RA for spending the way he did as I believe every PL Club has benefitted from the knock on effect.
		
Click to expand...

The highlighted bit.

I havent blamed all the PL issues now on RA but his aggressive spending and extortionate wages at that very time changed how PL ownership would become.

Every club was owned by a millionaire. Now to be a Guaranteed PL club you need to be close to a billionaire. He changed that and only him.

Look at how football club ownership has changed over the years, bar Brighton&Norwich off the top of my head the rest all have foreign owners who are all multi milionaires.

At that time it was only Chelsea smashing people out the park for transfer fees and wages. From then on everyone else had to do it.


No club will win the Premier League without a billionaire owner.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s written off the debt in his statement this week.🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

So they haven’t been debt free since 2008 ?

And it’s ok if the club has an owner that’s willing to wipe off £1.5bn is moneys owed - but I bet the asking price will cover thah


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			The highlighted bit.

I havent blamed all the PL issues now on RA but his aggressive spending and extortionate wages at that very time changed how PL ownership would become.

Every club was owned by a millionaire. Now to be a Guaranteed PL club you need to be close to a billionaire. He changed that and only him.

Look at how football club ownership has changed over the years, bar Brighton&Norwich off the top of my head the rest all have foreign owners who are all multi milionaires.

At that time it was only Chelsea smashing people out the park for transfer fees and wages. From then on everyone else had to do it.


No club will win the Premier League without a billionaire owner.
		
Click to expand...

Since he took over 3 Clubs have won it 5 times, its not as if he dominated the PL like Utd had done prior to that.

Yes, he took transfer fees up a level, but wages at Chelsea have always been around 70% of revenue raised (I think that’s how it is described) so almost a wages cap, infact others in the top 4/6 have paid higher wages when paying lesser transfer fees over the years.

Have a watch of this vid showing transfers/wages since the Prem began until end of 2021:
https://www.givemesport.com/1817108...end-since-the-start-of-the-premier-league/amp


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So they haven’t been debt free since 2008 ?

And it’s ok if the club has an owner that’s willing to wipe off £1.5bn is moneys owed - but I bet the asking price will cover thah
		
Click to expand...

“Chelsea have a unique ownership structure, wherein the club’s debt (about £1.3 billion owed to Abramovich) has been converted to debt held in a holding company, Fordstam Limited.
While on one hand, the debt exposure towards related parties is significant, on the other, Chelsea have no interest-bearing financial debt owed to other parties, such as financial institutions.

*This bit of financial hand-waving means that Chelsea, as a club, are essentially debt-free*, though Abramovich could theoretically call in the full amount owed, which could lead to an interesting situation.”

This change took place in 2008 and recently he’s waived the debt.


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## Foxholer (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			...
But the model IMO is what all clubs should be using - clubs should be forced imo to* spend only what they earn* and then rely on being well run , better recruitment and player development
		
Click to expand...

That zero investment policy is simply unrealistic for PL clubs!


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## Foxholer (Mar 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			...
Every club was owned by a millionaire. Now to be a Guaranteed PL club you need to be close to a billionaire. He changed that and only him.

Look at how football club ownership has changed over the years, bar Brighton&Norwich off the top of my head* the rest all have foreign owners* who are all multi milionaires.
		
Click to expand...

West Ham? Though owners are certainly multi-millionaires.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			West Ham? Though owners are certainly multi-millionaires.
		
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How could i forget the Dildo brothers🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️
Like i said it was off the top of my head whilst i was on the hoof so to speak.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			....
*At that time it was only Chelsea smashing people out the park for transfer fees and wages. From then on everyone else had to do it....*

Click to expand...

As close as I can remember it; "Every player now has 2 prices; the normal price and the Chelsea price."  Arsene Wenger.

So whilst it's true Roman had the money Stu, it could be argued that the greed of other clubs was as much a cause as his millions.


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## Foxholer (Mar 4, 2022)

Blackburn Rovers (from 1990 to present day), who, for me, started the 'hugely wealthy and ambitious owner' process, demonstrate the difference between good and bad owners - irrespective of their wealth!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			That zero investment policy is simply unrealistic for PL clubs!
		
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i know I’ll regret this but if it’s unrealistic how come Liverpool managed to win the league and CL doing it and challenging again this season ?


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## Foxholer (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i know I’ll regret this but if it’s unrealistic how come Liverpool managed to win the league and CL doing it and challenging again this season ?
		
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Here's a link that demonstrates that they've actually spent nearly 100m more than they earned (from player transfers) in the last 5 years.
And, like most, if not all, PL clubs they posted an operating losses in their last accounts (of around 4.8M and 45M). So by your 'rule' should not have spent the approx 75m (balanced by sales of about 25m and 15m) in this and last season!
https://www.transferleague.co.uk/pr...tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-liverpool/alletransfers/verein/31


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Here's a link that demonstrates that they've actually spent nearly 100m more than they earned (from player transfers) in the last 5 years.
And, like most, if not all, PL clubs they posted an operating loss in their last accounts (of around 45M). So by your 'rule' should not have spent the approx 75m (balanced by sales of about 25m and 15m) in this and last season!
https://www.transferleague.co.uk/pr...tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-liverpool/alletransfers/verein/31

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You do know a club earns more than just players sales and that is not on a year by year basis - and many player sales and purchases are in instalments 

As well as the accounts being made mid season and the last couple of years covid affected with the club like others taking credit lines when the Telly money etc stopped 

But the point is very clear - the club is self sustaining, it doesn’t rely on any owner investment on player purchases , it’s all done from the clubs income. 

The owners did take out a loan to build the stands up but again the club pays that loan back 

The only money the owners have used from their accounts is to purchase the club and pay off previous debts

So the point still stands - we were able to win the CL and league without the owners spending their own money to buy players and being a self sustaining club


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			As close as I can remember it; "Every player now has 2 prices; the normal price and the Chelsea price."  Arsene Wenger.

So whilst it's true he had the money Stu, it could be argued that the greed of other clubs was as much a cause as his millions.
		
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Whilst he was prepared to pay it you cant blame the seller. 

Bit like concert/football ticket touts.


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## Foxholer (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You do know a club earns more than just players sales and that is not on a year by year basis - and many player sales and purchases are in instalments

As well as the accounts being made mid season and the last couple of years covid affected with the club like others taking credit lines when the Telly money etc stopped

But the point is very clear - the club is self sustaining, it doesn’t rely on any owner investment on player purchases , it’s all done from the clubs income.

The owners did take out a loan to build the stands up but again the club pays that loan back

The only money the owners have used from their accounts is to purchase the club and pay off previous debts

So the point still stands - we were able to win the CL and league without the owners spending their own money to buy players and being a self sustaining club
		
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I don't disagree with most of the above.
But that's not what your original post stated!
FWIW, I prefer the Liverpool approach - which is the same as Arsenal, Man U, Tottenham etc. model to the Chelsea/Man City one


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You do know a club earns more than just players sales and that is not on a year by year basis - and many player sales and purchases are in instalments

As well as the accounts being made mid season and the last couple of years covid affected with the club like others taking credit lines when the Telly money etc stopped

But the point is very clear - the club is self sustaining, it doesn’t rely on any owner investment on player purchases , it’s all done from the clubs income.

The owners did take out a loan to build the stands up but again the club pays that loan back

The only money the owners have used from their accounts is to purchase the club and pay off previous debts

So the point still stands - we were able to win the CL and league without the owners spending their own money to buy players and being a self sustaining club
		
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So a genuine question as as I’ve said I agree the self sustainable model would be good for all.

What are the owners actually paying for then? Or are they just sitting back and taking a nice profit each year?
Depending on what you read LPool have debts anywhere between £150 million and £270 million pound and if the Club isn’t making a profit and the owners aren’t investing, surely that debt will only increase?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			So a genuine question as as I’ve said I agree the self sustainable model would be good for all.

What are the owners actually paying for then? Or are they sitting back and taking a nice profit each year?
Depending on what you read LPool have debts anywhere between £150 and £270 million pound and if the Club isn’t making a profit and the owners aren’t investing, surely that debt will only increase?
		
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The owners are taking no profit 🤷‍♂️

One of them has a directors wage but there is no dividends paid to them

The only time the owners will make a profit is if/when they sell the club or a percentage of it 

For example when they just sold a percentage of FSG to Redbird for £500mil etc 

And the debt the club has is for the bank loan for the two stand extensions , loan taken out by the owners and then given to the club and the club pays it back plus any working capital credit lines that were needed during the pandemic 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...s/fsg-truth-liverpools-238m-debt-20485647.amp

“
A total of £197m was drawn down from the credit facility, although it is understood that a significant chunk of that loan has been paid back already after football restarted and media revenues started to trickle in once more, as well as other monies that have been brought into the business in past months.

The £197m figure adds on to the £71m that Liverpool owe to owners Fenway Sports Group, paying off a further £8m of their £110m loan to aid the redevelopment of the Main Stand at Anfield. That takes the gross debt at the club to £268m.”

The year before Pandemic the club made a profit of around £45mil , the current accounts show a loss of £40mil but a drop of £60mil in match day revenue ( no crowds etc )


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The owners are taking no profit 🤷‍♂️

One of them has a directors wage but there is no dividends paid to them

The only time the owners will make a profit is if/when they sell the club or a percentage of it

For example when they just sold a percentage of FSG to Redbird for £500mil etc

And the debt the club has is for the bank loan for the two stand extensions , loan taken out by the owners and then given to the club and the club pays it back plus any working capital credit lines that were needed during the pandemic

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...s/fsg-truth-liverpools-238m-debt-20485647.amp

“
A total of £197m was drawn down from the credit facility, although it is understood that a significant chunk of that loan has been paid back already after football restarted and media revenues started to trickle in once more, as well as other monies that have been brought into the business in past months.

The £197m figure adds on to the £71m that Liverpool owe to owners Fenway Sports Group, paying off a further £8m of their £110m loan to aid the redevelopment of the Main Stand at Anfield. That takes the gross debt at the club to £268m.”

The year before Pandemic the club made a profit of around £45mil , the current accounts show a loss of £40mil but a drop of £60mil in match day revenue ( no crowds etc )
		
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Cheers for that, I can see why though some fans would get frustrated with FSG, they paid £300mil for Lpool, now estimated to be worth over £4 billion, if they did sell that would be a massive profit for them.


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## Dando (Mar 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Top keepers cost around that. I dont think 65 is too high for a player who was 25 when he signed and can play for 10 years plus. Id call that good value.
		
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they could’ve signed me for a box of beer and a kebab


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Cheers for that, I can see why though some fans would get frustrated with FSG, they paid £300mil for Lpool, now estimated to be worth over £4 billion, if they did sell that would be a massive profit for them.
		
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The club is worth that because of the progress that’s been made since they bought the club - Investment into a club can be more than just financially, they have put in place the right people in the right roles , either in the transfers or coaching and financial team. The club is worlds away from when they bought us - 16th in the league , just knocked out of the League Cup by Northampton- a team full of players like Koncheskey. 

They have helped move the club forward on and off the pitch and if they do sell the club ( which I don’t see happening ) and get a profit then that’s a sign of the improvements of the club that were made under their ownership. 

FSG haven’t been perfect , made some errors - furlough , ticket prices and super league to name a few but they have shown they want the club to be a success - with the Prem not ever following the 50+1 model they have in Germany then I’m not sure what owners in the Prem I would swap for


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## Foxholer (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			So a genuine question as as I’ve said I agree the self sustainable model would be good for all.

What are the owners actually paying for then? Or are they just sitting back and taking a nice profit each year?
Depending on what you read LPool have debts anywhere between £150 million and £270 million pound and if the Club isn’t making a profit and the owners aren’t investing, surely that debt will only increase?
		
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To me, it's the difference between running the football club as a business - which is what most PL teams are - and using/running it more like a toy/hobby - which is how Chelsea and Man City are.
Kroenke (Arsenal), Lewis/Levy (Tottenham), Glazers (Man U) and Fenway(Liverpool) are all involved in running sports related businesses in US. The owners of Chelsea and Man City are in decidedly different circumstances - and their football clubs are run more as a hobby!


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## 3offTheTee (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on Phil, Coutinho forced a move, it was never about balancing the books! Klopp new who he wanted.
		
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Are Liverpool still owed around 20 million for Coutinho? I was told that figure recently


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The club is worth that because of the progress that’s been made since they bought the club - Investment into a club can be more than just financially, they have put in place the right people in the right roles , either in the transfers or coaching and financial team. The club is worlds away from when they bought us - 16th in the league , just knocked out of the League Cup by Northampton- a team full of players like Koncheskey.

They have helped move the club forward on and off the pitch and if they do sell the club ( which I don’t see happening ) and get a profit then that’s a sign of the improvements of the club that were made under their ownership.

FSG haven’t been perfect , made some errors - furlough , ticket prices and super league to name a few but they have shown they want the club to be a success - with the Prem not ever following the 50+1 model they have in Germany then I’m not sure what owners in the Prem I would swap for
		
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I’m not criticising FSG, I wish our idiots would learn from them. But I have read Lpool fans questioning some of their behaviour.

Sadly we’ll never have 1 way of doing things in the PL as you could never level all the Clubs to have the same start, plus I don’t think it should be anyway.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			To me, it's the difference between running the football club as a business - which is what most PL teams are - and using/running it more like a toy/hobby - which is how Chelsea and Man City are.
Kroenke (Arsenal), Lewis/Levy (Tottenham), Glazers (Man U) and Fenway(Liverpool) are all involved in running sports related businesses in US. The owners of Chelsea and Man City are in decidedly different circumstances - and their football clubs are run more as a hobby!
		
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I’d prefer the Chelsea/City way to Arsenal/Spurs or Utd tbh.
Fans want to see success not spreadsheets.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Are Liverpool still owed around 20 million for Coutinho? I was told that figure recently
		
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No idea.


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## 3offTheTee (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Blackburn Rovers (from 1990 to present day), who, for me, started the 'hugely wealthy and ambitious owner' process, demonstrate the difference between good and bad owners - irrespective of their wealth!
		
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Jack Walker was born in Blackburn employed around 3,500 before he sold out to British Steel. He invested in BRFC slightly before 1990 to help the building of a stand and contribute towards the wages of Steve Archibald and Ossis Ardiles. When walker died and it was passed on to The Walker family trust all they wanted was to get out and sell. Obviously they backed the wrong horse with Venky’s but during the last few years they have invested/supported the Club in difficult times.


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## Foxholer (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I’d prefer the Chelsea/City way to Arsenal/Spurs or Utd tbh.
Fans want to see success not spreadsheets.
		
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I think that's view of the majority of fans. But (clubs as toys aside) that's not one that promotes longevity. Just remember what happened to Blackburn!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Are Liverpool still owed around 20 million for Coutinho? I was told that figure recently
		
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All the money for Coutinho is now paid up 



pauldj42 said:



			I’m not criticising FSG, I wish our idiots would learn from them. But I have read Lpool fans questioning some of their behaviour.

Sadly we’ll never have 1 way of doing things in the PL as you could never level all the Clubs to have the same start, plus I don’t think it should be anyway.
		
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There are two types that “question” them - the ones that weren’t happy and rightly so with the ESL , Furlough etc - and the owners held their hands up and admitted they were wrong and hopefully they learn from it 

And the other type that look at other clubs spending money from owners pocket or loans etc and ask why are owners don’t do the same - they point to clubs like Brighton etc having bigger net spend and for those fans the transfer window and net spend are two biggest negatives it seems against FSG. Some fans have zero trust in the recruitment and just want to see money spent thinking that’s going to see the club “dominate”


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## Foxholer (Mar 4, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Jack Walker was born in Blackburn employed around 3,500 before he sold out to British Steel. He invested in BRFC slightly before 1990 to help the building of a stand and contribute towards the wages of Steve Archibald and Ossis Ardiles. When walker died and it was passed on to The Walker family trust all they wanted was to get out and sell. Obviously they backed the wrong horse with Venky’s but during the last few years they have invested/supported the Club in difficult times.
		
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Indeed...Jack Walker - good; Venkys - horrendous!


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2022)

can we have a separate LFC thread plse


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## Foxholer (Mar 4, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			I’d prefer the Chelsea/City way to Arsenal/Spurs or Utd tbh.
Fans want to see success not spreadsheets.
		
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A fairly typical (success NOW) attitude of fans.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			A fairly typical (success NOW) attitude of fans.
		
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Rubbish, no one said success now, Newcastle fans know it won’t come overnight, but they want to see progression, Utd fans have seen regression, I wonder what they’d prefer.

All want a team they can be proud of, on and off the field.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			can we have a separate LFC thread plse 

Click to expand...

It was going so well until you know who piped up😁


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## Papas1982 (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i know I’ll regret this but if it’s unrealistic how come Liverpool managed to win the league and CL doing it and challenging again this season ?
		
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Becuase you've had a good run in the transfer market where the majority of your buys have done well. A bit like saints having a 3 year stint where they mixed with best of rest. 

You have a higher base level so may sustain it a bit. But if mane and Salah refuse new deals. That's 2 big transfer fees missed out on. So if you (Liverpool) continue to self suatain. That's a lot of goals to replace very cheaply ...


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Becuase you've had a good run in the transfer market where the majority of your buys have done well. A bit like saints having a 3 year stint where they mixed with best of rest.

You have a higher base level so may sustain it a bit. But if mane and Salah refuse new deals. That's 2 big transfer fees missed out on. So if you (Liverpool) continue to self suatain. That's a lot of goals to replace very cheaply ...
		
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The majority of buys have done well because the right players have been recruited by the club and I see no reason for that to stop 

I’m pretty confident that they have plans in place if Mané and Mo move on - and recent purchases of Jota and Diaz show they are looking to the future


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## Papas1982 (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The majority of buys have done well because the right players have been recruited by the club and I see no reason for that to stop

I’m pretty confident that they have plans in place if Mané and Mo move on - and recent purchases of Jota and Diaz show they are looking to the future
		
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of course they will have plans. But every transfer has a risk. No matter how proven the track record is. We had fonte, anderwield, vvd, finding a fourth was one step too far.
obv We shop a level or two down, but that will just make your mistakes more significant. I’m pretty sure Liverpool would rather have the £50m in their account that Keita,.

now as long as 80% of transfers work out, it’s ok. But nobodies record stays that successful long term.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			A fairly typical (success NOW) attitude of fans.
		
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Not really, when you have had chairmen like Peter Swales and Franny Lee 😖 those years were purgatory.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All the money for Coutinho is now paid up



There are two types that “question” them - the ones that weren’t happy and rightly so with the ESL , Furlough etc - and the owners held their hands up and admitted they were wrong and hopefully they learn from it

And the other type that look at other clubs spending money from owners pocket or loans etc and ask why are owners don’t do the same - they point to clubs like Brighton etc having bigger net spend and for those fans the transfer window and net spend are two biggest negatives it seems against FSG. Some fans have zero trust in the recruitment and just want to see money spent thinking that’s going to see the club “dominate”
		
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Only two types - and what do you base this on?

Maybe there are a 3rd. Its hard to criticise jurgen as he has crafted, possibly, our best ever 20+ player squad, or at least when all fit. I'm also in favour of us building up our infrastructure and more importantly our  ground, as it is long overdue. This they deserve credit for. They deserve criticism for the furlough, price increases attempted and the ESL. However, they also could and should have given the manager more money at times in the last 2-3 years. Its fortunate we have the best manager in the prem.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 5, 2022)

pauldj42 said:



			Isn’t that the point though mate? Pre RA the PL was won 8 times by Utd, 3 by Arsenal and Blackburn, RA’s approach woke other Clubs up and now more teams are in with a shout.

As for spends etc, absolutely agree the Lpool approach would be ideal for everyone, but that’s today’s position and if you choose to ignore the previous 15-20yrs and we’ll never have a level starting point to get there.

Utd did spend a bit, not Chelsea or City standard, but certainly a lot relative to the period, Blomquist, Stam, O’Shea, Yorke plus others in 1 season, Carroll, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Verón, Laurent Blanc and Diego Forlán in one other etc.

If any Club should get stick for spends and how they are run, it is Utd, just look at the debt their owners have caused, where as Chelsea have been debt free since 2008.

So to pick RA out and lay all the issues of the PL on him is unfair as previously said, the PL issues started before him and were made worse after him.

Look at the were the majority of Clubs get their money from and why? Maybe they should be thanking RA for spending the way he did as I believe every PL Club has benefitted from the knock on effect.
		
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Why only the premiership for all the comparisons?

RA woke other clubs up? What did they need waking up from, exactly? If waking clubs up seen clubs overspend/overreach like Leeds, Pompey who both nearly go bust. Derby at the moment. Its one of the reasons that greed/money/finance/owners/sponsorship deals/kit deals/shirt sales/transfer fees are the big talking points now, and less so the football itself.

The more money that has gone into football as seen it lose its soul even more.

Don't give me that debt-free rubbish. A 1.5 billion blank cheque was written.

We should be thankful for him - My God, that has got to be some of the worse drivel I've ever read on here. 

Its less a sport and now a billionaire/state sponsored willy waving contest.


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## greenone (Mar 5, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not really, when you have had chairmen like Peter Swales and Franny Lee 😖 those years were purgatory.
		
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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2022)

greenone said:









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😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Exactly 👍


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## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2022)

Hearing rumours of Rice not traveling to anfield due to illness and soucek is out aswell 

Id personally rest antonio and a few others. Liverpool are a force at anfield.. we have the biggest game in our recent history on thursday night... Id want everyone fit for that


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why only the premiership for all the comparisons?

*Because we are discussing RA and the PL!*

RA woke other clubs up? What did they need waking up from, exactly? If waking clubs up seen clubs overspend/overreach like Leeds, Pompey who both nearly go bust. Derby at the moment. Its one of the reasons that greed/money/finance/owners/sponsorship deals/kit deals/shirt sales/transfer fees are the big talking points now, and less so the football itself.
*The PL was absolutely dominated by Utd and RA broke that up, to compete other teams needed to step up.
LPool were the biggest spenders in 8 of the first 10 years of PL and yous won nowt!*

*Leeds was pre RA, Pompey had a crook in charge and Derby are irrelevant to the discussion. Shall we mention Bury and blame RA for everything!*

*Once the worlds best started coming to the PL the PL took off and every Club benefitted from TV money*

The more money that has gone into football as seen it lose its soul even more.
*Totally agree, but that horse has bolted and whining on about the “good old days” is a waste of time.*

Don't give me that debt-free rubbish. A 1.5 billion blank cheque was written. 
*Still debt free, whether we like it or not.*

We should be thankful for him - My God, that has got to be some of the worse drivel I've ever read on here.
*Read the post, that is not what I said*

Its less a sport and now a billionaire/state sponsored willy waving contest.
*And your Club is one of the worst, if it bothers you that much, walk away.*

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See above and then read the last line of post #23992


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Only two types - and what do you base this on?

Maybe there are a 3rd. Its hard to criticise jurgen as he has crafted, possibly, our best ever 20+ player squad, or at least when all fit. I'm also in favour of us building up our infrastructure and more importantly our  ground, as it is long overdue. This they deserve credit for. They deserve criticism for the furlough, price increases attempted and the ESL. However, they also could and should have given the manager more money at times in the last 2-3 years. Its fortunate we have the best manager in the prem.
		
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So that’s the second fan ? The one that wanted to see more money being spent 🤷‍♂️

And as the club is self sufficient where does the “more money” come from ? Surely with FSGs wealth being “asset” based it would need to be bank loans. The manager ( well recruitment team including Klopp ) have on many occasions been clear that they are happy with the recruitment and backing ? 

And “fortunate” ? Or the club getting the right man in for the job ? Along with the right recruitment team. 

In one post talking about RA and money ruining the game and then in another stating that we should have spent more ? 🤷‍♂️


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## Fade and Die (Mar 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Hearing rumours of Rice not traveling to anfield due to illness and soucek is out aswell

Id personally rest antonio and a few others. Liverpool are a force at anfield.. we have the biggest game in our recent history on thursday night... Id want everyone fit for that
		
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Would you take a sound spanking from the mousers...trousers down, six of the best, by fielding a severely weakened team, giving us the best chance of getting a result in Seville?

Tbh if Moyes admitted to Ralph Hasenhutle that Southampton Reserves beat us cos “this was the difference because you could bring on the fresh, good players,” then he must have already conceded the hammering at Anfield already.
And if the players have seen the article as well they probably have too…

https://www.hampshirelive.news/spor...oyes-ralph-hasenhuttl-southampton-6744602.amp


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500138058917855233
also shame to hear Chelsea fans chanting Abramovich name over a minutes applause for Ukraine


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## Foxholer (Mar 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500150249435930636
also shame to hear Chelsea fans chanting Abramovich name over a minutes applause for Ukraine
		
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Link doesn't work (anymore?)


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## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Would you take a sound spanking from the mousers...trousers down, six of the best, by fielding a severely weakened team, giving us the best chance of getting a result in Seville?

Tbh if Moyes admitted to Ralph Hasenhutle that Southampton Reserves beat us cos “this was the difference because you could bring on the fresh, good players,” then he must have already conceded the hammering at Anfield already.
And if the players have seen the article as well they probably have too…

https://www.hampshirelive.news/spor...oyes-ralph-hasenhuttl-southampton-6744602.amp

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the team turns out strong as it can be however i cant see anything but defeat with this being an unnecessary 90 mins for antonio who looks broken.


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2022)

wheres that checking club badge var thing again 

good to see 2 fouls in close succession from west ham is only 1 yellow card, why under the letter of the law arent both players booked?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2022)

Jota really is a dirty little coward

Lucky to be on pitch


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2022)

proper snidey foul from Jota that one


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2022)

That was a hard earned win , Moyes certainly sets up his team well and West Ham blew some great chances , Antonio is a superb player. 3 points in the bag


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That was a hard earned win , Moyes certainly sets up his team well and West Ham blew some great chances , Antonio is a superb player. 3 points in the bag
		
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felt rather fortunate, the goal is off side at the other end (wheres me VAR jpeg lol) and West Ham missed a couple of sitters to level things up

may be a big 3 points come the end of the season for sure (Diazs injury for City a big blow for them and may open the door in the coming weeks)


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			felt rather fortunate, the goal is off side at the other end (wheres me VAR jpeg lol) and West Ham missed a couple of sitters to level things up

may be a big 3 points come the end of the season for sure (Diazs injury for City a big blow for them and may open the door in the coming weeks)
		
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Why is it offside at the other end 🤷‍♂️ 

Both the lines where on the players sleeve ?


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it offside at the other end 🤷‍♂️

Both the lines where on the players sleeve ?
		
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same reason lukakus wasnt last week


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 5, 2022)

Well dug out win for Liverpool. Keeps City honest and makes the derby tomorrow even more interesting in terms of the title and racks the pressure up


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## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2022)

Felt it could / should have been more for Liverpool but same time we missed 2 big big chances 

On balance the correct result 

Pleased with the performance, disappointed losing Bowen. That could be huge 

Wouldn't say we missed rice as much as feared (wouldn't want to lose him for any longer but we can play without him if needed)

Jota is a disgusting little player. Very talented which is even more annoying. Another son type. Skillful, good player but with a snide streak that isn't needed


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Felt it could / should have been more for Liverpool but same time we missed 2 big big chances

On balance the correct result

Pleased with the performance, disappointed losing Bowen. That could be huge

Wouldn't say we missed rice as much as feared (wouldn't want to lose him for any longer but we can play without him if needed)

*Jota is a disgusting little player. *Very talented which is even more annoying. Another son type. Skillful, good player but with a snide streak that isn't needed
		
Click to expand...

Time of the month hun?

It was a tactical foul and a yellow card, well within the laws of the game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Felt it could / should have been more for Liverpool but same time we missed 2 big big chances

On balance the correct result

Pleased with the performance, disappointed losing Bowen. That could be huge

Wouldn't say we missed rice as much as feared (wouldn't want to lose him for any longer but we can play without him if needed)

Jota is a disgusting little player. Very talented which is even more annoying. Another son type. Skillful, good player but with a snide streak that isn't needed
		
Click to expand...

“Disgusting player” 😂

Took a foul for the team to stop a quick break for a correct yellow card and his first for the season

As opposed to Dawson who should have had 3/4 yellows out there - how he got away with the second yellow with the studs on Manes Achilles I’ll never know

Bowen a superb player - should be with England along with Antonio


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2022)

Good result, should've had the game wrapped up sooner though. 

I thought the 1 season wonder  had Kuyt's boots on today, he couldnt finish his dinner🤦🏼‍♂️

Keita was brilliant.


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## Crazyface (Mar 5, 2022)

Mansfield are going well, as are Macc Town. Lucky Wycombe as I didn't bet on them so they duly won.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Time of the month hun?

It was a tactical foul and a yellow card, well within the laws of the game.
		
Click to expand...

There is a difference between a tactical foul and making sure you hurt the oppo

Jota has a history of being a nasty piece of work 

Other than that good game


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## pokerjoke (Mar 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“Disgusting player” 😂

Took a foul for the team to stop a quick break for a correct yellow card and his first for the season

As opposed to Dawson who should have had 3/4 yellows out there - how he got away with the second yellow with the studs on Manes Achilles I’ll never know

Bowen a superb player - should be with England along with Antonio
		
Click to expand...

Antonio for England ? Start taking your medication.
VVD hasn’t given him a sniff in 2 games.
Salah is just so overated,so many games he goes missing.
Agree Jota certainly in the Son mould.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			There is a difference between a tactical foul and making sure you hurt the oppo

Jota has a history of being a nasty piece of work

Other than that good game
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Antonio for England ? Start taking your medication.
VVD hasn’t given him a sniff in 2 games.
*Salah is just so overated,so many games he goes missing*.
Agree Jota certainly in the Son mould.
		
Click to expand...

Missing?? Is That the same salah who caused cresswell problems all game and missed a few chances?

And you've played the game🤣🤣🤣


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## Papas1982 (Mar 5, 2022)

D


Liverpoolphil said:



			“Disgusting player” 😂

Took a foul for the team to stop a quick break for a correct yellow card and his first for the season

As opposed to Dawson who should have had 3/4 yellows out there - how he got away with the second yellow with the studs on Manes Achilles I’ll never know

Bowen a superb player - should be with England along with *Antonio*

Click to expand...

You mean the Jamaican intl?

That being said. He’s never intl (england) quality. Seems to of had 8 good weeks each season for last 3 years, but wouldn’t have him over any other england intl, even if he hadn’t jumped nation years ago when he realised he’s chances were none existent.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Time of the month hun?

*It was a tactical foul and a yellow card, well within the laws of the game.*

Click to expand...

Bit of a contradiction there La 😬😂


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## Swango1980 (Mar 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“Disgusting player” 😂

Took a foul for the team to stop a quick break for a correct yellow card and his first for the season

As opposed to Dawson who should have had 3/4 yellows out there - how he got away with the second yellow with the studs on Manes Achilles I’ll never know

Bowen a superb player - should be with England along with Antonio
		
Click to expand...

I don't think FIFA would allow Antonio to play for both Jamaica and England.


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## Dando (Mar 6, 2022)

Chelsea’s new stadium once Roman sells up


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Time of the month hun?

*It was a tactical foul and a yellow card, well within the laws of the game*.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure whether that's a paradox or an oxymoron, but it's bloody funny.
If the foul was within the laws of the game, (which it patently wasn't), it would never have been deemed a foul and no yellow card would have been shown!


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 6, 2022)

Dando said:



			Chelsea’s new stadium once Roman sells up 
	View attachment 41639

Click to expand...

That's hilarious... Said absolutely no-one


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not sure whether that's a paradox or an oxymoron, but it's bloody funny.
If the foul was within the laws of the game, (which it patently wasn't), it would never have been deemed a foul and no yellow card would have been shown!
		
Click to expand...

Bit of both🤔🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤣🤣🤣

If that doesnt win most stupid post of the year award i'll be disappointed😁

What i meant to post was, it was only a foul and a yellow card. Nothing more.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			That's hilarious... Said absolutely no-one
		
Click to expand...

Blimey -missing your sense of humour 😂

not great to hear the chanting during the minutes applause


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			D


You mean the Jamaican intl?

That being said. He’s never intl (england) quality. Seems to of had 8 good weeks each season for last 3 years, but wouldn’t have him over any other england intl, even if he hadn’t jumped nation years ago when he realised he’s chances were none existent.
		
Click to expand...

🤦‍♂️
Of course forget he finally got on the pitch for them last year 

And will disagree about intl quality , he would be definitely someone who comes on and provides a direct physical presence on the pitch and goals - made it an uncomfortable afternoon for VVD and Konate and not many have done that


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## pauljames87 (Mar 6, 2022)

Antonio whilst not your standard international quality player would have been perfect for England to come off bench in Euros final ..

He is the type of player who relishes the rough and tough players. Would have caused the Italian centre backs a few problems.. wouldn't see him held back by his shirt collar.. he would brushed that off and beaten the defender for pace.

However he isn't technically amazing he is a bully


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## Dando (Mar 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Antonio whilst not your standard international quality player would have been perfect for England to come off bench in Euros final ..

He is the type of player who relishes the rough and tough players. Would have caused the Italian centre backs a few problems.. wouldn't see him held back by his shirt collar.. he would brushed that off and beaten the defender for pace.

However he isn't technically amazing he is a bully
		
Click to expand...

When I played at centre back I’d
Rather be against someone with
More skill than a unit like Antonio


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Antonio whilst not your standard international quality player would have been perfect for England to come off bench in Euros final ..

He is the type of player who relishes the rough and tough players. Would have caused the Italian centre backs a few problems.. wouldn't see him held back by his shirt collar.. he would brushed that off and beaten the defender for pace.

However he isn't technically amazing he is a bully
		
Click to expand...

International football is a step up from PL football and Antonio isn't international quality. Good honest limited pro imo.


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			International football is a step up from PL football and Antonio isn't international quality. Good honest limited pro imo.
		
Click to expand...


Describes almost all the strikers in the prem these days doesnt it?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 6, 2022)

Dando said:



			When I played at centre back I’d
Rather be against someone with
More skill than a unit like Antonio
		
Click to expand...

Yet the more skillful CBs find him more of a handful than say burnleys old fashion centre halfs do


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500200656774348800
The man is close to being one of our best signings and whilst subjective imo the best CB the Prem has seen ( at prime ) 

also Manc Derby today - rumours that Ronaldo being dropped or refusing to play etc ( prob just injured ) - so is this true - is it no big loss 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...chester-united-gary-neville-b2029659.html?amp


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Manc Derby today - rumours that Ronaldo being dropped or refusing to play etc ( prob just injured ) - so is this true - is it no big loss

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...chester-united-gary-neville-b2029659.html?amp

Click to expand...

Who will you be supporting today, same for the other L'pool fans?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			Who will you be supporting today, same for the other L'pool fans?
		
Click to expand...

Won’t be “supporting” any team - will be happy to see City drop points


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## Swango1980 (Mar 6, 2022)

What a goal by Watford


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## Rlburnside (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey -missing your sense of humour 😂

Wonder why Chelsea didn’t wear the yellow kit yesterday 🤔 and not great to hear the chanting during the minutes applause
		
Click to expand...

No surprise to me about the chanting what surprised me is your the only one that commented about it. 

Need to get rid of that  pride of London banner.


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey -missing your sense of humour 😂

Wonder why Chelsea didn’t wear the yellow kit yesterday 🤔 and not great to hear the chanting during the minutes applause
		
Click to expand...

Nobody thought it was funny not even you, or you would have given it one of your fawning likes.

You didn't get a reaction to your Chelsea fans dig yesterday, are you trying again today?


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2022)

3 points  some lovely stuff going forward, less so defensively, and some laughable theatrics labelled game management sigh

well take it


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			3 points  some lovely stuff going forward, less so defensively, and some laughable theatrics labelled game management sigh

well take it
		
Click to expand...

Bet you were panicking after they "scored" after 15 seconds. Some great stuff in possession and going forward but still look brittle at the back. Back in the top four with games in hand over United and West Ham so some positives


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Nobody thought it was funny not even you, or you would have given it one of your fawning likes.

You didn't get a reaction to your Chelsea fans dig yesterday, are you trying again today?
		
Click to expand...

😂😂

So when fans get called out for poor behaviour it’s just a “dig” ? 

As opposed to actual poor behaviour of fans that you would expect even a section of their own fans to condemn- but at least your manager has an ounce of respect to call it out , maybe one day it will filter into some on the stands


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			Describes almost all the strikers in the prem these days doesnt it?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah,the old school #9 isn't really relied upon yet the England manager insists on playing with one 😁😁


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂

So when fans get called out for poor behaviour it’s just a “dig” ?

As opposed to actual poor behaviour of fans that you would expect even a section of their own fans to condemn- but at least your manager has an ounce of respect to call it out , *maybe one day it will filter into some on the stands*

Click to expand...

Nah their still too upset at them scousers booing GSTQ at Wembley last week 😁

*And the Living Room/Armchairs around the country 😉*


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			Who will you be supporting today, same for the other L'pool fans?
		
Click to expand...

None.

Just like last week, i want City to win. 

If City drop points, sound. If they dont, sound. I know the onus is on us to win all our league games. Wont be easy, some will say impossible, but whilst we're in control of our destiny i still believe.


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)




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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Grealish sold the ref one there🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂

So when fans get called out for poor behaviour it’s just a “dig” ?
		
Click to expand...

No, it's a dig when people who don't go to matches (telly clappers I believe is the term) jump on a bandwagon that they don't have first hand experience of. 
When someone like Stu_c does it, he know exactly what went on because he was there. When you do it, people know you've heard it 2nd or 3rd hand


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			No, it's a dig when people who don't go to matches (telly clappers I believe is the term) jump on a bandwagon that they don't have first hand experience of.
When someone like Stu_c does it, he know exactly what went on because he was there. When you do it, people know you've heard it 2nd or 3rd hand
		
Click to expand...

🤷‍♂️it was clear as day what went on and was reported by all major sports media outlets ? unless you are saying they weren’t chanting for Abramovich? Your own manager called it out as well

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...chel-blasts-chelsea-fans-for-abramovich-chant

So if someone is not at the game they can’t call out poor fan behaviour now ?

And I’m not sure why Stu would be there to hear ?


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)




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## Yorkhacker (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️it was clear as day what went on and was reported by all major sports media outlets ? unless you are saying they weren’t chanting for Abramovich? Your own manager called it out as well

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...chel-blasts-chelsea-fans-for-abramovich-chant

So if someone is not at the game they can’t call out poor fan behaviour now ?

And I’m not sure why Stu would be there to hear ?
		
Click to expand...

Stu_c understood what I meant. I'm not sure why you found it so hard.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 6, 2022)

Terrible defending by city. Sancho has cut back on to his right foot each time he has had the ball so far. He did the same again and the defenders left it open for him. Top finish but poor from the city back line.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤷‍♂️it was clear as day what went on and was reported by all major sports media outlets ? unless you are saying they weren’t chanting for Abramovich? Your own manager called it out as well

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...chel-blasts-chelsea-fans-for-abramovich-chant

So if someone is not at the game they can’t call out poor fan behaviour now ?

And I’m not sure why Stu would be there to hear ?
		
Click to expand...

Gotta agree with this. If you can't have an opinion because you're not at the game, this thread would be a quiet place. None of us should have a view on what is going on Ukraine either, we're not seeing it 1st hand. And, for any Chelsea fan defending their fans chanting at the most inappropriate time, they'd be quick to condemn any other team who chanted something inappropriate at that time. 

Away from the whinging though, nicely taken by Sancho


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Stu_c understood what I meant. I'm not sure why you found it so hard.
		
Click to expand...

So can you provide the list of what “Telly clappers” are allowed to comment on ?

But good work on the deflection 👍


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Great football from Foden.


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

Oooh, City are a good team going forward.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Dont know whats happened to the best defence in the league and the best RB 🤔😁😉


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So can you provide the list of what “Telly clappers” are allowed to comment on ?

But good work on the deflection 👍
		
Click to expand...

No deflection, it was as clear as day what I had written.  We could go on like this all day, as I know you won't be able to resist having the last word, so I'll let you, unless your next comment is really stupid.


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## 2blue (Mar 6, 2022)

Great to be watching a proper derby game with PROPER respect shown prior to KO.......  well done to both Clubs.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey -missing your sense of humour 😂

Wonder why Chelsea didn’t wear the yellow kit yesterday 🤔 and not great to hear the chanting during the minutes applause
		
Click to expand...

I think you will find the Ref was wearing yellow , so obviously Chelsea couldn’t .

Also it’s a bit rich to call out just the Chelsea fans when a section of Liverpool fans booed the National Anthem last week without any comment from you.

I know football is partisan, but you really need to wind your neck in a bit


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Lindelof has to do better though. If he goes in with the head properly he gets  free kick. He kazi'd it


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I think you will find the Ref was wearing yellow , so obviously Chelsea couldn’t .

Also it’s a bit rich to call out just the Chelsea fans when a section of Liverpool fans booed the National Anthem last week without any comment from you.

I know football is partisan, but you really need to wind your neck in a bit
		
Click to expand...

Wow, didnt expect you to wade in with your whatabboutery. 

Booing the  monarchy and supporting a personal friend of one of the worlds most dangerous men in this current climate is miles apart.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I think you will find the Ref was wearing yellow , so obviously Chelsea couldn’t .

Also it’s a bit rich to call out just the Chelsea fans when a section of Liverpool fans booed the National Anthem last week without any comment from you.

I know football is partisan, but you really need to wind your neck in a bit
		
Click to expand...

I don’t have an issue with people booing the national anthem so why would I call it out ? 

People were quick to point fingers at a Liverpool player for spitting on fans on here last week when it was false - was that ok ?


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t have an issue with people booing the national anthem so why would I call it out ?

People were quick to point fingers at a Liverpool player for spitting on fans on here last week when it was false - was that ok ?
		
Click to expand...

I think booing others' national anthems is totally disrespectful, booing one's own is just beyond me.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t have an issue with people booing the national anthem so why would I call it out ?

People were quick to point fingers at a Liverpool player for spitting on fans on here last week when it was false - was that ok ?
		
Click to expand...

It’s just double standards Phil, pointing out the anomaly.

Let’s stop the digs, it’s unnecessary, causes friction and could be interpreted as flaming

Just saying


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			I think booing others' national anthems is totally disrespectful, booing one's own is just beyond me.
		
Click to expand...

Double or triple standards


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			I think booing others' national anthems is totally disrespectful, booing one's own is just beyond me.
		
Click to expand...

Because some people are anti monarchy. 

Why does the national anthem have to sung at domestic Cup finals?  England games i understand. 

To my memory it was only ever sung at the FA Cup.


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## 2blue (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I think you will find the Ref was wearing yellow , so obviously Chelsea couldn’t .

Also it’s a bit rich to call out just the Chelsea fans when a section of Liverpool fans *booed the National Anthem *last week without any comment from you.

I know football is partisan, but you really need to wind your neck in a bit
		
Click to expand...

Yeah......  I remember some of our Nationalists kicking off when it was removed from end-of-showing at Cinemas & BBC's end-of-days broadcasts. What exactly is the point of it at Wembley other than, pathetic, out-of-date, Nationalism?


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow, didnt expect you to wade in with your whatabboutery.

Booing the  monarchy and supporting a personal friend of one of the worlds most dangerous men in this current climate is miles apart.
		
Click to expand...

My first point is a fact, far from whatabboutery, my second was pointing out perceived double standards.

And since when does LP need you to be his bodyguard? 
Back in yer box


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			It’s just double standards Phil, pointing out the anomaly.

*Let’s stop the digs, it’s unnecessary, causes friction and could be interpreted as flaming*

Just saying
		
Click to expand...

2nd paragraph post #24103 👍👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			I think booing others' national anthems is totally disrespectful, booing one's own is just beyond me.
		
Click to expand...

No issues with that at all - but there are a lot of people who associate it with either the establishment or the current monarchy and people have issues with both of them either currently or in the past.

It doesn’t need to be played at a domestic final - at England games yes


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			2nd paragraph post #24103 👍👍
		
Click to expand...

And your point is? …….


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			My first point is a fact, far from whatabboutery, my second was pointing out perceived double standards.

And since when does LP need you to be his bodyguard?
Back in yer box
		
Click to expand...

First point accepted. 
2nd point was blatant whatabboutery. 

He doesn't, im participating in a discussion on a forum. Do you have a problem with that?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			And your point is? …….
		
Click to expand...

Blatant whatabboutery and a  condescending reponse. 👍


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			First point accepted.
2nd point was blatant whatabboutery.

He doesn't, im participating in a discussion on a forum. Do you have a problem with that?
		
Click to expand...

My points were directed specifically at LP, regarding points of order. With my mod hat very much on

Nothing to do with you


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## pokerjoke (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Dont know whats happened to the best defence in the league and the best RB 🤔😁😉
		
Click to expand...

Your right City have been vulnerable


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 6, 2022)

I feel so dirty wanting Utd to get at least a point today.....


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			My points were directed specifically at LP, regarding points of order.

Nothing to do with you
		
Click to expand...

I'll bear that in mind. Seeing as i was at the event you have mentioned, and i'm certain you wasnt, i felt i had a right to be able to comment. 

You crack on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			It’s just double standards Phil, pointing out the anomaly.

Let’s stop the digs, it’s unnecessary, causes friction and could be interpreted as flaming

Just saying
		
Click to expand...

That’s fine - as long as it’s consistent through out , if someone points out actions of other fans then I would expect the same sort of response but through the history of football fan behaviour has always been a talking about - if Liverpool fans carry out an act that I believe is unacceptable then I have no issues with that being called out and it has been done , 

as I said calling out fan behaviour isn’t having a dig - the clubs own manager called it out in the national media and said he expects the fans to show more respect.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Your right City have been vulnerable

Click to expand...

Meh


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## adam6177 (Mar 6, 2022)

Fernandes is a snidey little so and so, cries anytime some touches him yet leaves studs in with no provocation.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s fine - as long as it’s consistent through out , if someone points out actions of other fans then I would expect the same sort of response but through the history of football fan behaviour has always been a talking about - if Liverpool fans carry out an act that I believe is unacceptable then I have no issues with that being called out and it has been done ,

as I said calling out fan behaviour isn’t having a dig - the clubs own manager called it out in the national media and said he expects the fans to show more respect.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve said my piece, 
Can we have a retraction of the yellow kit statement to set the record straight


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Fernandes🤣🤣🤣


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## Billysboots (Mar 6, 2022)

Wan-Bissaka has regressed so far and so fast it’s frightening. He’s always been questionable going forward, but when he arrived at United he was defensively quite solid.

Now he brings absolutely nothing to this side.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Now Maguire 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Mar 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Wan-Bissaka has regressed so far and so fast it’s frightening. He’s always been questionable going forward, but when he arrived at United he was defensively quite solid.

Now he brings absolutely nothing to this side.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'd almost prefer Henderson at right back now.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Wan-Bissaka has regressed so far and so fast it’s frightening. He’s always been questionable going forward, but when he arrived at United he was defensively quite solid.

Now he brings absolutely nothing to this side.
		
Click to expand...

100%
So lacking in confidence it’s unbelievable


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Wan-Bissaka has regressed so far and so fast it’s frightening. He’s always been questionable going forward, but when he arrived at United he was defensively quite solid.

Now he brings absolutely nothing to this side.
		
Click to expand...

Bissaka was never a £50m player nevermind a yernited player. 

Best RB in the country according to people on here  who have played the game.....🙄🙄

Couldnt lace Trents boots.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			100%
So lacking in confidence and ability it’s unbelievable
		
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Acurrate😉


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Agreed. I'd almost prefer Henderson at right back now.
		
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As if he'd sign for your lot 😉


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

Yeah, that was a class finish with a teeny, tiny hint of good fortune.


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			100%
*So lacking in confidence it’s unbelievable*

Click to expand...

You could say that about every one of them.


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

4th place .................................... my arse!


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I’ve said my piece,
Can we have a retraction of the yellow kit statement to set the record straight
		
Click to expand...

@Liverpoolphil still waiting, I’m happy for you to go over your 20 a day post limit if it helps 👍


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## Billysboots (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			4th place .................................... my arse!
		
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Not a chance. That went when we dropped points in games against the likes of Watford and Burnley.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 6, 2022)

Can't see United getting any form of European football next season. Who would want to manage that lot and then have to rebuild at least half the squad while managing all the egos. Big ask. People ask about how Arsenal have been allowed to struggle post Wenger (and maybe his last two years) but how far have United dropped away since Fergie


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			You could say that about every one of them.
		
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Not sure if it’s just confidence though

Some just whilst good solid Prem players aren’t the sort of top players you would expect to see at Utd

AWB was a decent solid full back , Maguire decent solid centre back , Shaw , Lindelof etc - all good players who would prob be great players at mid table teams

Add in a lack of direction , top class coaching and an identity then it’s not a great mix .

It’s all reminiscent of that Liverpool team in the 90’s - the next manager is crucial


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## pokerjoke (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Bissaka was never a £50m player nevermind a yernited player.

Best RB in the country according to people on here  who have played the game.....🙄🙄

Couldnt lace Trents boots.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve never said he’s the best RB in the country ever.
Find where I’ve said those words and I will give HFH £50
Walker or Reece would be my choice 
Trippier 3rd when fit
Where does that leave Trent


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

City are just toying with United now, it's almost a pathetic watch.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

If Yernited could get another goal that would help keep the goal difference down.

They need to get the ball off City 1st 🤣🤣


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## adam6177 (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			City are just toying with United now, it's almost a pathetic watch. 

Click to expand...

Almost?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I’ve said my piece,
Can we have a retraction of the yellow kit statement to set the record straight
		
Click to expand...

The referee is required to wear Black kit primarily

If there is a potential kit clash from the teams then the referee can wear another top to ensure they don’t clash - either pink , blue , yellow

Chelsea’s away kit is yellow but they used their third kit meaning the referee had to put on a non black top.

The referees kit doesn’t determine what colours the team must wear

The forum is full of comments made by posters that are opinion based , it’s my opinion that they won’t wear yellow because of what’s happening  , it could be right it could be wrong but it’s just an opinion.


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Almost?
		
Click to expand...

................ and now it is.
Utterly embarrassing and a totally fair result.
I just hope City keep this form going long enough to win the league.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			................ and now it is.
Utterly embarrassing and a totally fair result.
I just hope City keep this form going long enough to win the league.
		
Click to expand...

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Your team has just been legged all over the park and your 1st thought is you hope your local rivals keep their form up? 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Dando (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			................ and now it is.
Utterly embarrassing and a totally fair result.
I just hope City keep this form going long enough to win the league.
		
Click to expand...

I’m sure they’ll have tougher games coming up


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The referee is required to wear Black kit primarily

If there is a potential kit clash from the teams then the referee can wear another top to ensure they don’t clash - either pink , blue , yellow

Chelsea’s away kit is yellow but they used their third kit meaning the referee had to put on a non black top.

The referees kit doesn’t determine what colours the team must wear

The forum is full of comments made by posters that are opinion based , it’s MH opinion that they won’t wear yellow because of what’s happening  , it could be right it could be wrong but it’s just an opinion.
		
Click to expand...

And you go on about other people deflecting…..

It would be nice, just once in a while if you were to admit that you got it wrong, but no you obviously lack the balls for that.

I’m issuing an 8 point infraction for ignoring Moderator advice, you had your chance


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## pokerjoke (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Your team has just been legged all over the park and your 1st thought is you hope your local rivals keep their form up? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

It was my 2nd thought 
Liverpool supporters are unbearable,talk rubbish,spout rubbish and generally whine about most things.
Winning the title again would be unthinkable and unbearable.
Certainly don’t like losing especially in that fashion but long term I think I can live with that defeat.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I’ve never said he’s the best RB in the country ever.
Find where I’ve said those words and I will give HFH £50
Walker or Reece would be my choice
Trippier 3rd when fit
Where does that leave Trent
		
Click to expand...

Is that like when you said Trent cant defend then changed it to "he wasnt very good at defending"? 

Nah its alright


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## pokerjoke (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Is that like when you said Trent cant defend then changed it to "he wasnt very good at defending"?

Nah its alright
		
Click to expand...

I thought so


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			And you go on about other people deflecting…..

It would be nice, just once in a while if you were to admit that you got it wrong, but no you obviously lack the balls for that.

I’m issuing an 8 point infraction for ignoring Moderator advice, you had your chance
		
Click to expand...

Am i allowed to comment on this?


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## SteveW86 (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Am i allowed to comment on this?
		
Click to expand...

Of course you are, it’s a forum. All things posted in the threads can be commented on, otherwise they should be in a PM


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Am i allowed to comment on this?
		
Click to expand...

No but you can always PM me


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			It was my 2nd thought 
Liverpool supporters are unbearable,talk rubbish,spout rubbish and generally whine about most things.
Winning the title again would be unthinkable and unbearable.
Certainly don’t like losing especially in that fashion but *long term I think I can live with that defeat.*

Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

That's what happens when your an armchair fan and its not your local team😉


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## Swango1980 (Mar 6, 2022)

Well, at least United showed they are so much better without Ronaldo. They were immense, and their pressing spectacular...

The softest group of players I have ever known at any team, let alone United. Absolutely pathetic.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			No but you can always PM me
		
Click to expand...

Can you confirm why i cant comment? 

Just to make it clear my comment will not be about the infraction points.


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## Piece (Mar 6, 2022)

Meanwhile, I thought City second half were sensational. Forget Utd being 'poor' they were given a run-around and would have happened to other teams.

City and The Pool are miles better than the rest of the league. It's a pleasure to watch them both at full tilt. 👍


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## Piece (Mar 6, 2022)

Presenter, "Roy, what do you want McTominay to do there???"

Roy, "TACKLE HIM!!!!" 📢📢📢📣📣📣

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## pokerjoke (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

That's what happens when your an armchair fan and its not your local team😉
		
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See
Your a prime example of the above


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## Junior (Mar 6, 2022)

Thought we did OK in the first half.  I liked the high line but Citeh targeted AWB and he was overwhelmed and overpowered by Foden and greenish. I thought they should have done something to help him out. 

Citeh's class showed in the 2nd half and utd ended up chasing shadows.  Our main problem is that we have  zero composure at the back when teams press and we end up giving the ball away too easily....we just invite pressure.   Whether it's  Varane / Bailly or Varane / Lindleoff ,  we need a settled centre back pairing.   No team ever won anything by chopping and changing a defense.


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Your team has just been legged all over the park and your 1st thought is you hope your local rivals keep their form up? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

That's most certainly not my first thought, but it's the only solace I can find after the show I've just seen.
The thought of your lot winning the league .................................... I'd sooner plop my scrotum into a mouse trap!


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## pokerjoke (Mar 6, 2022)

Junior said:



			Thought we did OK in the first half.  I liked the high line but Citeh targeted AWB and he was overwhelmed and overpowered by Foden and greenish. I thought they should have done something to help him out.

Citeh's class showed in the 2nd half and utd ended up chasing shadows.  Our main problem is that we have  zero composure at the back when teams press and we end up giving the ball away too easily....we just invite pressure.   Whether it's  Varane / Bailly or Varane / Lindleoff ,  we need a settled centre back pairing.   No team ever won anything by chopping and changing a defense.
		
Click to expand...

All that from your armchair


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## AmandaJR (Mar 6, 2022)

Keane and Richards - comedy gold


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 6, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Keane and Richards - comedy gold 

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500544454545051648
How can you not love Richards😂😂


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## Junior (Mar 6, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			All that from your armchair 

Click to expand...

I actually had a hospitality ticket for today but I'm full of covid  🤒


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 6, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500544454545051648
How can you not love Richards😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Thought Keane was going to spontaneously combust and Richards was going to wet himself. TV comedy


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## davemc1 (Mar 6, 2022)

Fragger giving Stu an LPhil a bigger spanking here than City just gave Utd 😆


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			See
Your a prime example of the above

Click to expand...

We both know that isnt true.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 6, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			Fragger giving Stu an LPhil a bigger spanking here than City just gave Utd 😆
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool not even played and they’re feeling hard done by 🎻😂😂
#FRAGGERED


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			That's most certainly not my first thought, but it's the only solace I can find after the show I've just seen.
The thought of your lot winning the league .................................... I'd sooner plop my scrotum into a mouse trap!
		
Click to expand...

I'd suggest you keep your kinky tendancies private and  off the forum pal🤭

You've got bigger worries than Liverpool winning the league slime.


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## 2blue (Mar 6, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500544454545051648
How can you not love Richards😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Micha is one of Leed's best, from the  Simon Clifford, 'Brazilian Soccer Schools'...  he never got as good as he should have on the pitch, but has excelled himself as a pundit. Is becoming a real 'treasure'


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			All that from your armchair 

Click to expand...

Difference is that'll hurt Junior, i doubt he cares about Liverpool right now


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2022)

If only theyd started a separate LFC thread so much could have been avoided..... 🤣🤣🤣


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## pokerjoke (Mar 6, 2022)

Junior said:



			I actually had a hospitality ticket for today but I'm full of covid  🤒
		
Click to expand...

Get well soon bud,hope it’s not too bad


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			That's most certainly not my first thought, but it's the only solace I can find after the show I've just seen.
The thought of your lot winning the league .................................... I'd sooner plop my scrotum into a mouse trap!
		
Click to expand...

be careful you dont catch squirrel in there at the same time


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			If only theyd started a separate LFC thread so much could have been avoided..... 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Mad isnt it, Yernited get legged by their closest rivals and they start talking about Liverpool 😄😄😄


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mad isnt it, Yernited get legged by their closest rivals and they start talking about Liverpool 😄😄😄
		
Click to expand...


2 games and 10 goals elsewhere, and still were talking about the scousers being lucky with VAR yesterday  ridic isnt it


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## Rlburnside (Mar 6, 2022)

Yea sorry I can’t follow that post want to try and rephrase it 👍


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## Rlburnside (Mar 6, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Yea sorry I can’t follow that post want to try and rephrase it 👍
		
Click to expand...

That was meant for Leftitshort😂


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## Leftitshort (Mar 6, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			That was meant for Leftitshort😂
		
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Can’t remember what it said. Seems to have disappeared


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

Some posts have been removed

Let’s get back on track please 👍


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			2 games and 10 goals elsewhere, and still were talking about the scousers being lucky with VAR yesterday  ridic isnt it
		
Click to expand...

Wait til our Bloooooo bretheren play tomorrow🤣🤣🤣


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## DaveR (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			And you go on about other people deflecting…..

It would be nice, just once in a while if you were to admit that you got it wrong, but no you obviously lack the balls for that.

I’m issuing an 8 point infraction for ignoring Moderator advice, you had your chance
		
Click to expand...

So people can't have an opinion now?


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Wait til our Bloooooo bretheren play tomorrow🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...


think they play our white ones, one of us is going to be happy at least 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2022)

DaveR said:



			So people can't have an opinion now?
		
Click to expand...

No people can obviously express their opinions, that is what the forum is for.

But when someone casts an aspersion that turns out to be factually incorrect, and refuse to retract it , and it is causing an issue, then the mods need to step in.

End of, let’s move on now please


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## Tashyboy (Mar 6, 2022)

City have just played there best football this season and Ave read lord knows how many pages of drivel that have nowt to do with the beautiful game of football. No wonder folk stop posting.


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mad isnt it, Yernited get legged by their closest rivals and they start talking about Liverpool 😄😄😄
		
Click to expand...

City are only our closest rivals geographically.
Our fiercest rivals are your lot, they are the ones I want to beat more than any other.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mad isnt it, Yernited get legged by their closest rivals and they start talking about Liverpool 😄😄😄
		
Click to expand...

Closest but not the biggest as your fully aware


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			City have just played there best football this season and Ave read lord knows how many pages of drivel that have nowt to do with the beautiful game of football. No wonder folk stop posting.
		
Click to expand...


2nd half was a joy to behold at times, KDB is some footballer, kid called Foden isnt bad either. Definitely a better side when Sterlings getting splinters


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## Leftitshort (Mar 6, 2022)

At what point do City & Liverpool fans stop thinking of United as their biggest game of the season. Seems a bit of a one way rivalry now


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## fundy (Mar 6, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			At what point do City & Liverpool fans stop thinking of United as their biggest game of the season. Seems a bit of a one way rivalry now
		
Click to expand...


surely Citys natural rivals will soon be Newcastle


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			City are only our closest rivals geographically.
Our fiercest rivals are your lot, they are the ones I want to beat more than any other.
		
Click to expand...

I'm certain those lads and girls who have just endured that defeat wont have left the Etihad saying "ah well i hope they beat Liverpool to the title" they'll be hurt, feeling a mixture of emotions leaving there. 

It's small time mentality. I'm enjoying it though 😄


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			At what point do City & Liverpool fans stop thinking of United as their biggest game of the season. Seems a bit of a one way rivalry now
		
Click to expand...

City are well behind Everton, Yernited, Forest and Tranmere in regards to our biggest games of the season in terms of rivalry.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So that’s the second fan ? The one that wanted to see more money being spent 🤷‍♂️

And as the club is self sufficient where does the “more money” come from ? Surely with FSGs wealth being “asset” based it would need to be bank loans. The manager ( well recruitment team including Klopp ) have on many occasions been clear that they are happy with the recruitment and backing ?

And “fortunate” ? Or the club getting the right man in for the job ? Along with the right recruitment team.

In one post talking about RA and money ruining the game and then in another stating that we should have spent more ? 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Nope, we should have used more of the money that we earned. It took us decades to get to the top again and you have to maintain it by investing to keep it there. FSG's big payment will come when they sell. They will possibly have a 3 or 4 billion pound profit by then. 

If we have rebuilt Anfield on 3 or 4 sides and challenged at the top end, with 90-100% of it being self generated money, great, but sometimes a bit of short term investment can pay off to them further down the line.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm certain those lads and girls who have just endured that defeat wont have left the Etihad saying "ah well i hope they beat Liverpool to the title" they'll be hurt, feeling a mixture of emotions leaving there.

It's small time mentality. I'm enjoying it though 😄
		
Click to expand...

As you say “mixed emotions “
Yes we lost but every cloud and all that.


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## JamesR (Mar 6, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			No people can obviously express their opinions, that is what the forum is for.

But when someone casts an aspersion that turns out to be factually incorrect, and refuse to retract it , and it is causing an issue, then the mods need to step in.

End of, let’s move on now please
		
Click to expand...

The forum’s full of inaccurate opinions.
To force all of those to be retracted would also be ridiculous.


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## JamesR (Mar 6, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			At what point do City & Liverpool fans stop thinking of United as their biggest game of the season. Seems a bit of a one way rivalry now
		
Click to expand...

I think it’s a too 3 now. Utd have been dropped.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nope, we should have used more of the money that we earned. It took us decades to get to the top again and you have to maintain it by investing to keep it there. FSG's big payment will come when they sell. They will possibly have a 3 or 4 billion pound profit by then.

If we have rebuilt Anfield on 3 or 4 sides and challenged at the top end, with 90-100% of it being self generated money, great, but sometimes a bit of short term investment can pay off to them further down the line.
		
Click to expand...

They spend all the money we earned ? It’s there clear in the accounts , and at times spend a little bit more than that hence years with some losses. There isn’t a pot of money sitting there that hasn’t been spent - and a good deal of that income ( 2/3rds ) has been spent on the wage bill 

The club do keep investing - Jota , Thiago , Konate , Diaz , Taki - all players arriving in the last 18 months - and you can add in the investment in the all those new contracts for the big players plus the new training ground. There is no standing still from the club


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



*I'm certain those lads and girls who have just endured that defeat wont have left the Etihad saying "ah well i hope they beat Liverpool to the title" they'll be hurt*, feeling a mixture of emotions leaving there.

It's small time mentality. I'm enjoying it though 😄
		
Click to expand...

Don't forget, I don't go to the games, therefore I don't count.
I am merely white noise.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They spend all the money we earned ? It’s there clear in the accounts , and at times spend a little bit more than that hence years with some losses. There isn’t a pot of money sitting there that hasn’t been spent - and a good deal of that income ( 2/3rds ) has been spent on the wage bill

The club do keep investing - Jota , Thiago , Konate , Diaz , Taki - all players arriving in the last 18 months - and you can add in the investment in the all those new contracts for the big players plus the new training ground. There is no standing still from the club
		
Click to expand...

There was a 750 million dollar pot that they got this year, and although Liverpool is only one of the big two flagships clubs, that money has been earned in part  because of us being in the FSG stable.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:
Why only the premiership for all the comparisons?

*Because we are discussing RA and the PL!*

*You've jumped around quite a bit on this subject when doing comparisons, so unless your just using eras to suit your argument????*

RA woke other clubs up? What did they need waking up from, exactly? If waking clubs up seen clubs overspend/overreach like Leeds, Pompey who both nearly go bust. Derby at the moment. Its one of the reasons that greed/money/finance/owners/sponsorship deals/kit deals/shirt sales/transfer fees are the big talking points now, and less so the football itself.
*The PL was absolutely dominated by Utd and RA broke that up, to compete other teams needed to step up.
LPool were the biggest spenders in 8 of the first 10 years of PL and yous won nowt!*

*I think Arsenal fans will have something to say about that. Remember them invincible blokes? You may be right, we've always been a big spender and man u had the class of 92.*

*Leeds was pre RA, Pompey had a crook in charge and Derby are irrelevant to the discussion. Shall we mention Bury and blame RA for everything!*

*I dont blame RA for everything, but greed in football has gone up massively in the last 20+ years. The formation of the premier league, Bosman Ruling were the biggest factors but RA, Man City's owners are the next big names in line with the way football has gone. Donut partners FFP (would prefer to use an S).*

*Once the worlds best started coming to the PL the PL took off and every Club benefitted from TV money*

The more money that has gone into football as seen it lose its soul even more.
*Totally agree, but that horse has bolted and whining on about the “good old days” is a waste of time.*

*20 is plenty, price increases binned after fan revolts, fan revolts about the ESL, spirit of Shankly members on the board.......you give up on it if you want, I'll carry on fighting for the match-goers thanks as sometimes we win. Maybe if sky do an online poll the telly clappers can wade in, as a sort of territorial army.  *

Don't give me that debt-free rubbish. A 1.5 billion blank cheque was written.
*Still debt free, whether we like it or not.*

*Or if you chose to ignore it.*

We should be thankful for him - My God, that has got to be some of the worse drivel I've ever read on here.
*Read the post, that is not what I said*

*You seem to have the most mis-understood posts on here by a country mile. *

Its less a sport and now a billionaire/state sponsored willy waving contest.
*And your Club is one of the worst, if it bothers you that much, walk away.*

Are we owned by a state for sports washing reasons, are we a billionaires play thing who gives us free untold capital, no. We spend what we earn and have a great manager.

if you want a good example, look at where man u and Arsenal were as clubs with a great manager. Granted, man u have spent tonnes of money and are still struggling, but a great manager, untold wealth and 300 million benches take it away from most others. If City win the next 5 leagues and have won 9 out of 10, tell me were all sooooo much better off for it, as a sport.


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## Billysboots (Mar 6, 2022)

Credit where it’s due - Man City were absolutely first class today, and showed once again the gulf between them and Liverpool, and the rest of the Premier League. United barely laid a glove on them.

It pains me to say it, but they are light years ahead of my shower, who seem as far away from competing for the title as they have been at any time since 2013. Every season we seem to be talking about a rebuild being required at Old Trafford, and this season is no different. United, as a bare minimum, need a right back, centre half, central midfielder and striker. Quite possibly a left back too. The saving grace is there are some wages due off the bill this summer, but another expensive transfer window is on the cards, during which the recruitment has to be right.

That will be problematic given the likelihood of no Champion’s League football next season. And the ongoing saga regarding the manager needs to be resolved as soon as this season draws to a conclusion. 

More gloomy days ahead I’m afraid.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



Liverbirdie said:
Why only the premiership for all the comparisons?

*Because we are discussing RA and the PL!*

*You've jumped around quite a bit on this subject when doing comparisons, so unless your just using eras to suit your argument????*

*Nobody but you has jumped around, conversation was only about RA.*


RA woke other clubs up? What did they need waking up from, exactly? If waking clubs up seen clubs overspend/overreach like Leeds, Pompey who both nearly go bust. Derby at the moment. Its one of the reasons that greed/money/finance/owners/sponsorship deals/kit deals/shirt sales/transfer fees are the big talking points now, and less so the football itself.
*The PL was absolutely dominated by Utd and RA broke that up, to compete other teams needed to step up.
LPool were the biggest spenders in 8 of the first 10 years of PL and yous won nowt!*

*I think Arsenal fans will have something to say about that. Remember them invincible blokes? You may be right, we've always been a big spender and man u had the class of 92.*

*Utd won it 8 times, Arsenal 3 times, Yes Arsenal had a great side, but that doesn’t take away the fact Utd dominated that period. *

*Leeds was pre RA, Pompey had a crook in charge and Derby are irrelevant to the discussion. Shall we mention Bury and blame RA for everything!*

*I dont blame RA for everything, but greed in football has gone up massively in the last 20+ years. The formation of the premier league, Bosman Ruling were the biggest factors but RA, Man City's owners are the next big names in line with the way football has gone. Donut partners FFP (would prefer to use an S).*

*When RA took over Chelsea the PL had 1 foreign owner at Fulham and the other 19 were owned by Englishman, now all 20 are Foreign owned (some no longer PL) that was RA’s fault that the English took the money?*

*Once the worlds best started coming to the PL the PL took off and every Club benefitted from TV money*

The more money that has gone into football as seen it lose its soul even more.
*Totally agree, but that horse has bolted and whining on about the “good old days” is a waste of time.*

*20 is plenty, price increases binned after fan revolts, fan revolts about the ESL, spirit of Shankly members on the board.......you give up on it if you want, I'll carry on fighting for the match-goers thanks as sometimes we win. Maybe if sky do an online poll the telly clappers can wade in, as a sort of territorial army.  *

*Small fry revolts by a few fans once the media has made the issues public and still time and time again owners mess up! Please, the owners will do what they think is best and only back track after they’ve been caught with their pants down? How many apologies have FSG made now? Surely 1 was 1 too many, I can think of at least 4.*

Don't give me that debt-free rubbish. A 1.5 billion blank cheque was written.
*Still debt free, whether we like it or not.*

*Or if you chose to ignore it*

*I don’t get a say in it.*

We should be thankful for him - My God, that has got to be some of the worse drivel I've ever read on here.
*Read the post, that is not what I said*

*You seem to have the most mis-understood posts on here by a country mile. *

*Not misunderstood at all, I used the word “maybe” I didn’t say we should be thankful, you’ve chosen to misread and misquote me!*

Its less a sport and now a billionaire/state sponsored willy waving contest.
*And your Club is one of the worst, if it bothers you that much, walk away.*

Are we owned by a state for sports washing reasons, are we a billionaires play thing who gives us free untold capital, no. We spend what we earn and have a great manager. 
*Your Club takes money from the Chinese Government, as it’s not as much as City does it mean it’s OK? You were moaning about what they spent in another post*

if you want a good example, look at where man u and Arsenal were as clubs with a great manager. Granted, man u have spent tonnes of money and are still struggling, but a great manager, untold wealth and 300 million benches take it away from most others. If City win the next 5 leagues and have won 9 out of 10, tell me were all sooooo much better off for it, as a sport.
*We now talk about the Sly Six, was the top 4 etc, prior to RA it was about 1 Club, most people believe the PL is more competitive, we can’t turn the clock back, sadly it is a business. The rest is complete whataboutery*

Click to expand...

See above


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 6, 2022)

Looking at the Man Utd starting line up today, how many of those would be a consideration for the match day squad for Man City or Liverpool, let alone actually getting in the starting 11? I would say that De Gea, Sancho and Fernandes would be good enough to get into the other squads, with Elanga looking like a good prospect for the future so also one to be considered. The Pogba that plays for France would also be good enough, but not the one that plays for Utd. If the entire Man Utd squad was available on a free transfer it's only those 5 I can see that would get close to being considered by Guardiola or Klopp.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 6, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:
Liverbirdie said:
Why only the premiership for all the comparisons?

*Because we are discussing RA and the PL!*

*You've jumped around quite a bit on this subject when doing comparisons, so unless your just using eras to suit your argument????*

*Nobody but you has jumped around, conversation was only about RA.*

*No it wasnt - you yourself used the dig about us helping to set up the premier league - Everton were just as prevalent in that as well. *


RA woke other clubs up? What did they need waking up from, exactly? If waking clubs up seen clubs overspend/overreach like Leeds, Pompey who both nearly go bust. Derby at the moment. Its one of the reasons that greed/money/finance/owners/sponsorship deals/kit deals/shirt sales/transfer fees are the big talking points now, and less so the football itself.
*The PL was absolutely dominated by Utd and RA broke that up, to compete other teams needed to step up.
LPool were the biggest spenders in 8 of the first 10 years of PL and yous won nowt!*

*I think Arsenal fans will have something to say about that. Remember them invincible blokes? You may be right, we've always been a big spender and man u had the class of 92.*

*Utd won it 8 times, Arsenal 3 times, Yes Arsenal had a great side, but that doesn’t take away the fact Utd dominated that period.*

*You used the phrase absolutely dominated - in an 8 year period they only won half the leagues at their height, city if they win it this year will be at 80%!!!!!*

*Leeds was pre RA, Pompey had a crook in charge and Derby are irrelevant to the discussion. Shall we mention Bury and blame RA for everything!*

*I dont blame RA for everything, but greed in football has gone up massively in the last 20+ years. The formation of the premier league, Bosman Ruling were the biggest factors but RA, Man City's owners are the next big names in line with the way football has gone. Donut partners FFP (would prefer to use an S).*

*When RA took over Chelsea the PL had 1 foreign owner at Fulham and the other 19 were owned by Englishman, now all 20 are Foreign owned (some no longer PL) that was RA’s fault that the English took the money?*

*I never said it was.*

*Once the worlds best started coming to the PL the PL took off and every Club benefitted from TV money*

The more money that has gone into football as seen it lose its soul even more.
*Totally agree, but that horse has bolted and whining on about the “good old days” is a waste of time.*

*20 is plenty, price increases binned after fan revolts, fan revolts about the ESL, spirit of Shankly members on the board.......you give up on it if you want, I'll carry on fighting for the match-goers thanks as sometimes we win. Maybe if sky do an online poll the telly clappers can wade in, as a sort of territorial army.*

*Small fry revolts by a few fans once the media has made the issues public and still time and time again owners mess up! Please, the owners will do what they think is best and only back track after they’ve been caught with their pants down? How many apologies have FSG made now? Surely 1 was 1 too many, I can think of at least 4.*

*Well you show a lack of brotherly love to your fellow "fans", if you want, I'd rather praise them for showing some fight, myself.*

Don't give me that debt-free rubbish. A 1.5 billion blank cheque was written.
*Still debt free, whether we like it or not.*

*Or if you chose to ignore it*

*I don’t get a say in it.*

We should be thankful for him - My God, that has got to be some of the worse drivel I've ever read on here.
*Read the post, that is not what I said*

*You seem to have the most mis-understood posts on here by a country mile.*

*Not misunderstood at all, I used the word “maybe” I didn’t say we should be thankful, you’ve chosen to misread and misquote me!*

Is that an argument reversing alarm I can hear?

Its less a sport and now a billionaire/state sponsored willy waving contest.
*And your Club is one of the worst, if it bothers you that much, walk away.*

Are we owned by a state for sports washing reasons, are we a billionaires play thing who gives us free untold capital, no. We spend what we earn and have a great manager.
*Your Club takes money from the Chinese Government, as it’s not as much as City does it mean it’s OK? You were moaning about what they spent in another post*

*Has it, and how has that manifested itself? One word - Usmanov.  *

if you want a good example, look at where man u and Arsenal were as clubs with a great manager. Granted, man u have spent tonnes of money and are still struggling, but a great manager, untold wealth and 300 million benches take it away from most others. If City win the next 5 leagues and have won 9 out of 10, tell me were all sooooo much better off for it, as a sport.
*We now talk about the Sly Six, was the top 4 etc, prior to RA it was about 1 Club, most people believe the PL is more competitive, we can’t turn the clock back, sadly it is a business. The rest is complete whataboutery*

*It was never 1 club, but we may be approaching one club domination. Don't you remember it was the big 5 for 2-3 decades? In that time many other clubs won the league and cups, surely football was better off as a sport then, but you say it's harking back to so-called better days - the reason why - IT WAS!!!!!!!!!!!*
See above


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



Liverbirdie said:
Liverbirdie said:
Why only the premiership for all the comparisons?

*Because we are discussing RA and the PL!*

*You've jumped around quite a bit on this subject when doing comparisons, so unless your just using eras to suit your argument????*

*Nobody but you has jumped around, conversation was only about RA.*

*No it wasnt - you yourself used the dig about us helping to set up the premier league - Everton were just as prevalent in that as well. *

*Garbage, show me were I had a dig at yous, I’m fully aware of the role we played.*


RA woke other clubs up? What did they need waking up from, exactly? If waking clubs up seen clubs overspend/overreach like Leeds, Pompey who both nearly go bust. Derby at the moment. Its one of the reasons that greed/money/finance/owners/sponsorship deals/kit deals/shirt sales/transfer fees are the big talking points now, and less so the football itself.
*The PL was absolutely dominated by Utd and RA broke that up, to compete other teams needed to step up.
LPool were the biggest spenders in 8 of the first 10 years of PL and yous won nowt!*

*I think Arsenal fans will have something to say about that. Remember them invincible blokes? You may be right, we've always been a big spender and man u had the class of 92.*

*Utd won it 8 times, Arsenal 3 times, Yes Arsenal had a great side, but that doesn’t take away the fact Utd dominated that period.*

*You used the phrase absolutely dominated - in an 8 year period they only won half the leagues at their height, city if they win it this year will be at 80%!!!!!*

*Again you are moving the goal posts, the PL was in existence for 12 years before RA took over, not 8, stick to facts.*

*Leeds was pre RA, Pompey had a crook in charge and Derby are irrelevant to the discussion. Shall we mention Bury and blame RA for everything!*

*I dont blame RA for everything, but greed in football has gone up massively in the last 20+ years. The formation of the premier league, Bosman Ruling were the biggest factors but RA, Man City's owners are the next big names in line with the way football has gone. Donut partners FFP (would prefer to use an S).*

*When RA took over Chelsea the PL had 1 foreign owner at Fulham and the other 19 were owned by Englishman, now all 20 are Foreign owned (some no longer PL) that was RA’s fault that the English took the money?*

*I never said it was.*

*so why mention other Clubs going bust?*

*Once the worlds best started coming to the PL the PL took off and every Club benefitted from TV money*

The more money that has gone into football as seen it lose its soul even more.
*Totally agree, but that horse has bolted and whining on about the “good old days” is a waste of time.*

*20 is plenty, price increases binned after fan revolts, fan revolts about the ESL, spirit of Shankly members on the board.......you give up on it if you want, I'll carry on fighting for the match-goers thanks as sometimes we win. Maybe if sky do an online poll the telly clappers can wade in, as a sort of territorial army.*

*Small fry revolts by a few fans once the media has made the issues public and still time and time again owners mess up! Please, the owners will do what they think is best and only back track after they’ve been caught with their pants down? How many apologies have FSG made now? Surely 1 was 1 too many, I can think of at least 4.*

*Well you show a lack of brotherly love to your fellow "fans", if you want, I'd rather praise them for showing some fight, myself.*

*More mud slinging hoping some will stick.*

Don't give me that debt-free rubbish. A 1.5 billion blank cheque was written.
*Still debt free, whether we like it or not.*

*Or if you chose to ignore it*

*I don’t get a say in it.*

We should be thankful for him - My God, that has got to be some of the worse drivel I've ever read on here.
*Read the post, that is not what I said*

*You seem to have the most mis-understood posts on here by a country mile.*

*Not misunderstood at all, I used the word “maybe” I didn’t say we should be thankful, you’ve chosen to misread and misquote me!*

Is that an argument reversing alarm I can hear?

*Only from you as the proof of what I posted is on here for all to see. I stated “Maybe”……Fact!*

Its less a sport and now a billionaire/state sponsored willy waving contest.
*And your Club is one of the worst, if it bothers you that much, walk away.*

Are we owned by a state for sports washing reasons, are we a billionaires play thing who gives us free untold capital, no. We spend what we earn and have a great manager.
*Your Club takes money from the Chinese Government, as it’s not as much as City does it mean it’s OK? You were moaning about what they spent in another post*

*Has it, and how has that manifested itself? One word - Usmanov.  *

*So ignore the point and throw a dead cat on the table. We are a sh1t show and have no one to blame but ourselves, badly managed embarrassment, not blaming anyone else, fully responsible for were we are now! *

if you want a good example, look at where man u and Arsenal were as clubs with a great manager. Granted, man u have spent tonnes of money and are still struggling, but a great manager, untold wealth and 300 million benches take it away from most others. If City win the next 5 leagues and have won 9 out of 10, tell me were all sooooo much better off for it, as a sport.
*We now talk about the Sly Six, was the top 4 etc, prior to RA it was about 1 Club, most people believe the PL is more competitive, we can’t turn the clock back, sadly it is a business. The rest is complete whataboutery*

*It was never 1 club, but we may be approaching one club domination. Don't you remember it was the big 5 for 2-3 decades? In that time many other clubs won the league and cups, surely football was better off as a sport then, but you say it's harking back to so-called better days - the reason why - IT WAS!!!!!!!!!!!*
See above* You continually sound like a broken record like an old Dad! Those days are gone, we aren’t returning to them, the 80’s were the best period for me. The current period will be the best period for those who know no different now. I wholeheartadly agree the game I grew up with has gone, gone forever, just like the world has changed and we move forward, feel free to live in the past, just don’t expect others to stay there with you.*

Click to expand...


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

Great performance from Villa at the weekend. 4-0 against a team that were bang in form is exactly what we like to see! Both strikers on the score sheet - and both Brazilians!

Coutinho may very well be the best footballer to ever wear a Villa shirt. The techincal ability is absolutely on another level. How he scored from where he did, I do not know! The weight of pass and vision too.

Just hope he signs on the dotted line this summer.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			There was a 750 million dollar pot that they got this year, and although Liverpool is only one of the big two flagships clubs, that money has been earned in part  because of us being in the FSG stable.
		
Click to expand...

That wasn’t money “earned” by the club , and certainly not money that can be put onto the accounts to the be used for the club

That was from selling a percentage of their company - and they then used that money to purchase another team to add to the portfolio. 

Did people expect that to be used for player purchases ? They may well have used some of the money to help build up the stand but it wasn’t investment into the football club from Redbird and I don’t know why people think it was.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

Manchester Derby was a great watch for the neutral fan. 

Its funny to me that I used to hear a lot of moaning about McTominay and Fred under Ole and yet the new manager just plays the same guys too? 

False 9 only works when your team gives 100% effort, something United struggle with.

City are an absolute force, so dominant and gave United a footballing lesson.

United fans must be in dispair, that team is miles away from being close to Liverpool and City.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Manchester Derby was a great watch for the neutral fan.

Its funny to me that I used to hear a lot of moaning about McTominay and Fred under Ole and yet the new manager just plays the same guys too?

False 9 only works when your team gives 100% effort, something United struggle with.

City are an absolute force, so dominant and gave United a footballing lesson.

United fans must be in dispair, that team is miles away from being close to Liverpool and City.
		
Click to expand...

Lots of people saying City were really good in the second half in particular. In some cases there best performance this season. Not sure I'd go with that and think Keane had it spot on when he said there were some that looked to have given up and weren't chasing back at all. That made it look easier than maybe it was watching at home. I think any new manager is on a hiding to nothing. Fans will expect a quick return to top 4 and headline signings but there is so much dead wood to be got rid off, the atmosphere and toxicity (according to reports) in the changing room and rebuilding. Will the next manager get time. This could be a 2-3 season job and there is a danger of no European football of any description in that time. Not sure how the fans and powers inside OT would react to that for the next few years but you can't keep the managerial door revolving all the time


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## BiMGuy (Mar 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Lots of people saying City were really good in the second half in particular. In some cases there best performance this season. Not sure I'd go with that and think Keane had it spot on when he said *there were some that looked to have given up* and weren't chasing back at all. That made it look easier than maybe it was watching at home. I think any new manager is on a hiding to nothing. Fans will expect a quick return to top 4 and headline signings but there is so much dead wood to be got rid off, the atmosphere and toxicity (according to reports) in the changing room and rebuilding. Will the next manager get time. This could be a 2-3 season job and there is a danger of no European football of any description in that time. Not sure how the fans and powers inside OT would react to that for the next few years but you can't keep the managerial door revolving all the time
		
Click to expand...

Some of the ManU players had given up. But, they had given up because City were so good. Chasing the game as much as ManU did. Eventually you either get exhausted or so demoralised it’s hard to muster up the effort. 

They knew they were well beaten and folded. It was brilliant so see.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Lots of people saying City were really good in the second half in particular. In some cases there best performance this season. Not sure I'd go with that and think Keane had it spot on when he said there were some that looked to have given up and weren't chasing back at all. That made it look easier than maybe it was watching at home. I think any new manager is on a hiding to nothing. Fans will expect a quick return to top 4 and headline signings but there is so much dead wood to be got rid off, the atmosphere and toxicity (according to reports) in the changing room and rebuilding. Will the next manager get time. This could be a 2-3 season job and there is a danger of no European football of any description in that time. Not sure how the fans and powers inside OT would react to that for the next few years but you can't keep the managerial door revolving all the time
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Theres no more than 2/3 players from their starting line up yesterday that should be anywhere near a Manchested United First team.

Whole thing is rotten, they can thank Woodward for that.

Get a proper sporting director, one whos signings have actual vision, then build from there.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2022)

Having watched the game Utd for the first 25 mins were very good and pressured well. But there was no way they could do that for 90 minutes. After 25 minutes was the first time I saw Utd dropping back. The second half was as good as I have seen City for a few years. The tempo was excellent. 
The aftergame comments were fantastic to listen to. Keane is wounded, But Gary Neville. Am not sure what planet he is on. He is suggesting Wreck it Ralph is doing some kind of consultancy to give a report at the end of the season. Eh. There’s 75,000 At old Trafford could tell you what is wrong at OT for nowt. Tough times ahead I think at OT.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Totally agree. Theres no more than 2/3 players from their starting line up yesterday that should be anywhere near a Manchested United First team.

Whole thing is rotten, they can thank Woodward for that.

Get a proper sporting director, one whos signings have actual vision, then build from there.
		
Click to expand...

Nah, let them continue to rot.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Great performance from Villa at the weekend. 4-0 against a team that were bang in form is exactly what we like to see! Both strikers on the score sheet - and both Brazilians!

Coutinho may very well be the best footballer to ever wear a Villa shirt. The techincal ability is absolutely on another level. How he scored from where he did, I do not know! The weight of pass and vision too.

Just hope he signs on the dotted line this summer.
		
Click to expand...

He could've had a hatrick from what i seen on MOTD. 

He's a cracking footballer, so clever with the ball.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Totally agree. Theres no more than 2/3 players from their starting line up yesterday that should be anywhere near a Manchested United First team.

Whole thing is rotten, they can thank Woodward for that.

Get a proper sporting director, one whos signings have actual vision, then build from there.
		
Click to expand...

Personally I think the next manager will buy but has to bring on players. Am not Ute what Utds style of play is now. That needs addressing.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He could've had a hatrick from what i seen on MOTD.

He's a cracking footballer, so clever with the ball.
		
Click to expand...

Blokes a magician. Honestly, cant believe we have him at Villa. If he signs permenant ill lose my head.

What I cant get is that Traore and Auba are doing well in the farmers league at Barca - but they wouldnt play Coutinho!?


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## Swango1980 (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Manchester Derby was a great watch for the neutral fan.

*Its funny to me that I used to hear a lot of moaning about McTominay and Fred under Ole and yet the new manager just plays the same guys too?*

False 9 only works when your team gives 100% effort, something United struggle with.

City are an absolute force, so dominant and gave United a footballing lesson.

United fans must be in dispair, that team is miles away from being close to Liverpool and City.
		
Click to expand...

That is because there is no alternative. United have been negligent in building a strong midfield. Matic is even worse that Fred and McTomminay, he is well past it. We bought De Beek and then never bothered giving him a chance, although he wasn't exactly the strong midfield general we'd need anyway. Anyone remember Mata? Yes, he is still at the club rotting away. Lingard another player the club have no faith in. 

When Ole was in charge, it was clear he was nowhere near good enough. The players had that excuse as well, they are bound to look poor playing under bad tactics and bad leadership by Ole. Or at least, Ole probably tried to be too nice and put an arm around the players. Sometimes, they need a kick up the backside. With Ole leaving, the players no longer have that excuse, they need to step up and show they deserve to play for a club with big ambitions. Clearly they are failing big time. They are a bunch of weak individuals who crumble under the criticism, usually scared to put a foot in against opponents and definitely scared to shout at each other on the pitch. There will be a load of them leaving at the end of the season, either out of contract or simply not deemed good enough by a new manager. It is also time, I'd imagine, for a lot of the coaching staff to leave.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Nah, let them continue to rot.
		
Click to expand...

Would be nice


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Personally I think the next manager will buy but has to bring on players. Am not Ute what Utds style of play is now. That needs addressing.
		
Click to expand...

Thats why a DoF is impotant. Makes signings for whatever style of football you choose to play. Managers can come and go but the style remains consistent so players fit the system. 

Cech seems to be doing a good job at Chelsea


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## chrisd (Mar 7, 2022)

Please guys, leave Man u alone!

I want them to be relegated next season - what a hoot that would be 😁😁


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That is because there is no alternative. United have been negligent in building a strong midfield. Matic is even worse that Fred and McTomminay, he is well past it. We bought De Beek and then never bothered giving him a chance, although he wasn't exactly the strong midfield general we'd need anyway. Anyone remember Mata? Yes, he is still at the club rotting away. Lingard another player the club have no faith in.

When Ole was in charge, it was clear he was nowhere near good enough. The players had that excuse as well, they are bound to look poor playing under bad tactics and bad leadership by Ole. Or at least, Ole probably tried to be too nice and put an arm around the players. Sometimes, they need a kick up the backside. With Ole leaving, the players no longer have that excuse, they need to step up and show they deserve to play for a club with big ambitions. Clearly they are failing big time. They are a bunch of weak individuals who crumble under the criticism, usually scared to put a foot in against opponents and definitely scared to shout at each other on the pitch. There will be a load of them leaving at the end of the season, either out of contract or simply not deemed good enough by a new manager. It is also time, I'd imagine, for a lot of the coaching staff to leave.
		
Click to expand...

There is. Sign someone and get the deal done. What did you do in Jan? 

United of old got their man no matter what. End of. 

I fear any manager coming to united now is going to fail unless the hierachy steps in to clear out the dead wood. Even Arsenal have more balls than you in that aspect.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Please guys, leave Man u alone!

I want them to be relegated next season - what a hoot that would be 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

Everton v Yernited in the  championship would be comical🤣


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Totally agree. Theres no more than 2/3 players from their starting line up yesterday that should be anywhere near a Manchested United First team.

Whole thing is rotten, they can thank Woodward for that.

Get a proper sporting director, one whos signings have actual vision, then build from there.
		
Click to expand...

Easier said than done.

Ferguson left an ageing squad, albeit a league winning one although that wasnt purely down to how great they were, more the poor standard around them. Oh and having the PGMOL in his arse pocket😄


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

Listening to Talksport this morning, Danny Murphy with a scathing attack on the Yernited players. 

He mentioned how they gave up, hid when they went 3-1 down, shirking responsibility etc, i thought he was describing his 9 in 10 liverpool performances🤭


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Personally I think the next manager will buy but has to bring on players. *Am not Ute what Utds style of play is now. That needs addressing*.
		
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This is a big thing for me. Every team, whether Norwich, Crystal Palace, Man U or City need a recongnisable style. They do not have to stick religiously to this style but the basic dna should be recognisable. Any player that comes in, off the subs bench or a new signing, will know that they need to fit in with this, they will know how the team plays. Utd simply don't have this at the moment, they don't have a style that you could put your finger on. It is a weakness that needs addressing as otherwise how can you become a proper, bonded, cohesive team. You drift.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



*Easier said than done.*

Ferguson left an ageing squad, albeit a league winning one although that wasnt purely down to how great they were, more the poor standard around them. Oh and having the PGMOL in his arse pocket😄
		
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Of course it is - and thats clearly the same attitude adopted by the hierachy at the moment  They just arent bothering. 

Fergie left YEARS ago, this isnt on him (except at board level).

It took liverpool 2/3 seasons under Klopp to get somewhere significant, United need the same - maybe more!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Of course it is - and thats clearly the same attitude adopted by the hierachy at the moment  They just arent bothering.

Fergie left YEARS ago, this isnt on him (except at board level).

It took liverpool 2/3 seasons under Klopp to get somewhere significant, United need the same - maybe more!
		
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He did and look at the state it was in.

He must take responsibility along with woodward and co. 

We had that clown you've currently got who thought he knew better than the manager. It happens. 

Will the fans/media give the next Yernited manager 3 seasons? I doubt it.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He did and look at the state it was in.

He must take responsibility along with woodward and co.

*We had that clown you've currently got who thought he knew better than the manager. It happens.*

Will the fans/media give the next Yernited manager 3 seasons? I doubt it.
		
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Purslow?

And no - I doubt it too! Ive followed Villa through the ups and downs of Championship football to premier league. Im sure you stuck by liverpool when you went 20+ years without a title. City fans, Leeds fans, West ham - we've all been through hell. United need to learn what that actually is and stop acting so damn entitled. They had it too good for too long and just cant cope with what they are now.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Of course it is - and thats clearly the same attitude adopted by the hierachy at the moment  They just arent bothering.

Fergie left YEARS ago, this isnt on him (except at board level).

It took liverpool 2/3 seasons under Klopp to get somewhere significant, United need the same - maybe more!
		
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Fergie left an aging team which needed a complete rebuild for top to bottom.

Fergie also picked his replacement as Moyes but the board didn't back him enough. Got rid after 51 games rather than let him slowly build something ready for a new manager to take them on

Take what he has done at West ham. We had a lot of players on big wages not performing, they have been shipped out 

He has worked with the players he had already (ogbonna , cresswell, rice, Antonio, fornals) and got them playing probably the best football in their careers 

When dipping into the transfer market he has bought smart. Coufal and soucek were shrewd cheap buissness to beef up the squad 

Bowen was exceptional buissness and is one of our best players 

Zouma (morals aside) is our best defender 

Dawson was a shrewd signing very underrated

Benramha flits in and out but he has produced in Europa 

Vlasic is too soon to fully judge. I think he will be like fornals good in the end

He guided us into the Europa League .. now into the final rounds 

Had they backed him fully and let him overhaul the squad he would have got them firing again .. ready for a top top manager to take over 

I fear they wanted success quick and has cost them it for a decade.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Fergie left an aging team which needed a complete rebuild for top to bottom.

Fergie also picked his replacement as Moyes but the board didn't back him enough. Got rid after 51 games rather than let him slowly build something ready for a new manager to take them on

Take what he has done at West ham. We had a lot of players on big wages not performing, they have been shipped out

He has worked with the players he had already (ogbonna , cresswell, rice, Antonio, fornals) and got them playing probably the best football in their careers

When dipping into the transfer market he has bought smart. Coufal and soucek were shrewd cheap buissness to beef up the squad

Bowen was exceptional buissness and is one of our best players

Zouma (morals aside) is our best defender

Dawson was a shrewd signing very underrated

Benramha flits in and out but he has produced in Europa

Vlasic is too soon to fully judge. I think he will be like fornals good in the end

He guided us into the Europa League .. now into the final rounds

Had they backed him fully and let him overhaul the squad he would have got them firing again .. ready for a top top manager to take over

I fear they wanted success quick and has cost them it for a decade.
		
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United also failed Moyes in signings. 

Couldnt get a single signing over the line to vastly improve the squad... but they did manage to get Fellaini!


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 7, 2022)

Since Fergie left Utd, I don’t see a manager that has been there long enough to have the control Fergie did. I suspect Moyes May have done if he had been given time, but I don’t think the players wanted him and neither did the fans, who wanted instant success continuation which was never going to happen with the squad there was.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Since Fergie left Utd, I don’t see a manager that has been there long enough to have the control Fergie did. I suspect Moyes May have done if he had been given time, but I don’t think the players wanted him and neither did the fans, who wanted instant success continuation which was never going to happen with the squad there was.
		
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This is my point. No time given and fans still have this massive expectation that they are a PL winning side. Whoever they get needs a minimum of 3 years to get rid of the dead wood and bring players in that add something and not some of the mediocrity they have. The club and the fans need to accept they won't be challenging for the PL or top 4 in that time and if they get Europa League they've had a good year. Good luck to whoever comes in as that's a massive job and will he get the cash and support required


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## Neilds (Mar 7, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



*Since Fergie left Utd*, I don’t see a manager that has been there long enough to have the control Fergie did. I suspect Moyes May have done if he had been given time, but I don’t think the players wanted him and neither did the fans, who wanted instant success continuation which was never going to happen with the squad there was.
		
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Has Fergie left?  Or is his presence (and interference?) still being felt by managers?  Does he still have influence on what goes on as every time you watch on TV, there he is. I feel this may put extra pressure on the current manager who may feel like they have one hand tied behind their back.  I may be wrong though......


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## davemc1 (Mar 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Fergie left an aging team which needed a complete rebuild for top to bottom.

Fergie also picked his replacement as Moyes but the board didn't back him enough. Got rid after 51 games rather than let him slowly build something ready for a new manager to take them on

Take what he has done at West ham. We had a lot of players on big wages not performing, they have been shipped out

He has worked with the players he had already (ogbonna , cresswell, rice, Antonio, fornals) and got them playing probably the best football in their careers

When dipping into the transfer market he has bought smart. Coufal and soucek were shrewd cheap buissness to beef up the squad

Bowen was exceptional buissness and is one of our best players

Zouma (morals aside) is our best defender

Dawson was a shrewd signing very underrated

Benramha flits in and out but he has produced in Europa

Vlasic is too soon to fully judge. I think he will be like fornals good in the end

He guided us into the Europa League .. now into the final rounds

Had they backed him fully and let him overhaul the squad he would have got them firing again .. ready for a top top manager to take over

I fear they wanted success quick and has cost them it for a decade.
		
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All of this and yet yous are still behind the worst Utd team in 40+years. Yeah he’s doing a great job 🤦‍♂️😆


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## DanFST (Mar 7, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			All of this and yet yous are still behind the worst Utd team in 40+years. Yeah he’s doing a great job 🤦‍♂️😆
		
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He is. We are West Ham United, not the glory hunting, spoiled by success Manchester United. Who finished 2nd in the table last year. Since then, let's look at the signings.

Manchester United:

Ronaldo
Sancho
Varane

West Ham:
Vlasic (squad player)
Kral (squad player)
Areola on loan as a backup to Fabianski.
EDIT: forgot about the cat kicker who has missed half the season. 


All those players signed, and they are only 2 points ahead of little old West Ham after 28 games. Jesus.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			All of this and yet yous are still behind the worst Utd team in 40+years. Yeah he’s doing a great job 🤦‍♂️😆
		
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Sorry but look at the levels of expectation 

It's our first season fully competing in Europa yet are behind a united side with how many millions of "talent"? 6th In the league is nothing to sniff at 

Now imagine if we had your backing in the transfer market? I think top 4 would be more than achievable.

The fact your post just proves me point .. fans look down on actual success because it's not what they see as success


Take Liverpool, how much stick did they get for not winning the title? Yet they won everything but ...

Now they have delivered on the title and play some of the best football in the league whilst staying sensible with their spending ..

How far are united off being at where they fans expect to be? 2/3 years or another decade?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Since Fergie left Utd, I don’t see a manager that has been there long enough to have the control Fergie did. I suspect Moyes May have done if he had been given time, but I don’t think the players wanted him and neither did the fans, who wanted instant success continuation which was never going to happen with the squad there was.
		
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Which is basically what the problem is down to.. the players .. too many big egos who haven't performed


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Sorry but look at the levels of expectation

It's our first season fully competing in Europa yet are behind a united side with how many millions of "talent"? *6th In the league is nothing to sniff at*

Now imagine if we had your backing in the transfer market? I think top 4 would be more than achievable.

The fact your post just proves me point .. fans look down on actual success because it's not what they see as success


Take Liverpool, how much stick did they get for not winning the title? Yet they won everything but ...

Now they have delivered on the title and play some of the best football in the league whilst staying sensible with their spending ..

How far are united off being at where they fans expect to be? 2/3 years or another decade?
		
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I agree - even if you finish top 8, you've had a great year considering all the additional football played in Europe!


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## Swango1980 (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



*There is. Sign someone and get the deal done. What did you do in Jan?*

United of old got their man no matter what. End of.

I fear any manager coming to united now is going to fail unless the hierachy steps in to clear out the dead wood. Even Arsenal have more balls than you in that aspect.
		
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Well, of course, we can just buy players in. However, if we treated it that simply, we'd probably just be continuing our awful policy of throwing money around and thinking our problems will be solved.

I've no idea who is in charge of identifying and buying players. I used to think the manager would have a large input into this, however signings like De Beek indicate this is simply not the case. And, it has been a disaster. Ragnick only just got appointed before the transfer window, AND he is only a temporary replacement. So, do United go out and spend big money in the January transfer window, for players Ragnick may not want? Before he has even had the chance to get to properly know the players that are at the club? And, even if there were players he wanted, it won't work out so well if the new manager next season does not fancy them. Finally, what club is willing to sell their best players mid season to United, assuming these players are talented enough to show significant improvement to a shambles of a team?

Basically, United have made plenty of mistakes season after season. I was simply saying that, due to these mistakes, Ragnick has no real choice to play Fred and McTomminay in games like yesterday. The best solution is not to rush out and panic buy, but to ensure as soon as possible they know who the manager will be next season (I can only hope this is all being done efficiently behind the scenes, and maybe already settled). Then work out what long term direction they want to go in. They also need to be ruthless. If players show they are not good enough, get rid asap. In the Ferguson years, there was no hesitation in even getting rid of big players like Stam, Beckham, Keane and Van Nistlerooy, yet today not only are we holding on to Pogba, but we still have Phil Jones, Mata, Matic, etc. The people who run the club have become hoarders of players, it is ridiculous.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 7, 2022)

I can refute most of what you say again, but it will just end up going round in circles.

How come so many people get in arguments with you on here, and it ends up with you saying "you mis-understand what I'm saying"?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2022)

Moyes is at the right level for his management style , he is a solid manager who gets a lot of hard work out of his team , they are always hard to beat , physical and add a little of attacking in there - he did well for years at Everton getting them around 5-8th each year from modest resources - but going to Man Utd is totally different , the expectations are massively different and the style is expected to be different. 

He showed in his first time at West Ham that it’s a job that suits him , again it’s that club just below the top clubs where the fans aren’t expecting leagues and CL etc but they want to see the team progress , battle and be in amongst those looking to break into top 4/Europa spots - and that’s exactly what he is doing at West Ham and the fans appear to be ok with that , I can see them getting a cup at some point soon 

But here is doing a Good job there , has some very good players and getting more out of others. It will be interesting to see what happens when Rice leaves and the players that arrive


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That wasn’t money “earned” by the club , and certainly not money that can be put onto the accounts to the be used for the club

That was from selling a percentage of their company - and they then used that money to purchase another team to add to the portfolio.

Did people expect that to be used for player purchases ? They may well have used some of the money to help build up the stand but it wasn’t investment into the football club from Redbird and I don’t know why people think it was.
		
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It was sold as money to keep going with infrastructure developments throughout the group.

No matter how you spin it, the portfolio of clubs like us and the red sox, chiefly, are the reasons why investors are buying in.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Blokes a magician. Honestly, cant believe we have him at Villa. If he signs permenant ill lose my head.

What I cant get is that Traore and Auba are doing well in the farmers league at Barca - but they wouldnt play Coutinho!?
		
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100 mill for Grealish, and if you get Coutinho in for less than 50 mill are two deals made in heaven for you.

A big upgrade and loads of dosh in the bank, as well.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I agree - even if you finish top 8, you've had a great year considering all the additional football played in Europe!
		
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To many fans for me got excited about top 4.. no no no dont run before you can walk

slow and steady

we finished 6th in the league.. that was remarkable.. since then we have finished quarter finals of the league cup (knocking out the holders and their noisy neighbors) have reached the last 16 of europa...5th round of FA cup.. all not to be sniffed at.. all progression 

say we are knocked out europa next thursday and we end up finishing top 8 that would be outstanding considering where we were when moyes took over (should never have been let go.. the club saw MP and tried to run before it could walk)

now Rice is prob off , hey is what it is.. you sold grealish and invested wisely .. the world still goes round and you play good football 

when rice leaves we can push soucek back up the front and sign a CDM  as rices move to Box to box midfielder has hurt souceks natural play

Bowen will be the one ill miss most when he leaves as hes a great attacking players.. good to watch


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			100 mill for Grealish, and if you get Coutinho in for less than 50 mill are two deals made in heaven for you.

A big upgrade and loads of dosh in the bank, as well.
		
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Rumoured that its £33m at the end of the season to get him.... A steal!



pauljames87 said:



			To many fans for me got excited about top 4.. no no no dont run before you can walk

slow and steady

we finished 6th in the league.. that was remarkable.. since then we have finished quarter finals of the league cup (knocking out the holders and their noisy neighbors) have reached the last 16 of europa...5th round of FA cup.. all not to be sniffed at.. all progression

say we are knocked out europa next thursday and we end up finishing top 8 that would be outstanding considering where we were when moyes took over (should never have been let go.. the club saw MP and tried to run before it could walk)

now Rice is prob off , hey is what it is.. you sold grealish and invested wisely .. the world still goes round and you play good football

when rice leaves we can push soucek back up the front and sign a CDM  as rices move to Box to box midfielder has hurt souceks natural play

Bowen will be the one ill miss most when he leaves as hes a great attacking players.. good to watch
		
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You might get Kalvin Phillips in as a direct replacement if Leeds continue to falter


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Rumoured that its £33m at the end of the season to get him.... A steal!



You might get Kalvin Phillips in as a direct replacement if Leeds continue to falter
		
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£30 option to buy I heard you had?

Kalvin Phillips would be an excellent fit. Sitting back to allow soucek forward etc 

However id love us to get him in to convince rice that he will be worth staying 

Got to think who can afford him now 

Chelsea can't ATM 

City? Do they need him 

Liverpool would be a good fit 

United he would suit but would you want to go there? Big club obviously but they need more than him


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			£30 option to buy I heard you had?

Kalvin Phillips would be an excellent fit. Sitting back to allow soucek forward etc

*However id love us to get him in to convince rice that he will be worth staying*

Got to think who can afford him now

Chelsea can't ATM

City? Do they need him

Liverpool would be a good fit

United he would suit but would you want to go there? Big club obviously but they need more than him
		
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I thought the same about Grealish but if the head is turned, they're going. Someone will come in for him. 

Chelsea could sell Werner to raise some capital and have a bit left over to top it up - theres no way they dont do something in the summer! Maybe not 100m for Rice though. 

City buy who they want, not who they need.

Dont see liverpool spending that amount of cash unless hes not 100m.

I hope he avoids United like the plague - but he could be exactly what they need.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Rumoured that its £33m at the end of the season to get him.... A steal!



You might get Kalvin Phillips in as a direct replacement if Leeds continue to falter
		
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More like an upgrade 😉


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			More like an upgrade 😉
		
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For Phillips absolutely!


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## BiMGuy (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			For Phillips absolutely! 

Click to expand...

Certainly is at the minute. Although I assume he would rather stay at a big club 😉


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Certainly is at the minute. Although I assume he would rather stay at a* big club* 😉
		
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I think you've made a typo in bold!



West Ham are, according to their fan base, Massive....


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## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I thought the same about Grealish but if the head is turned, they're going. Someone will come in for him.

Chelsea could sell Werner to raise some capital and have a bit left over to top it up - theres no way they dont do something in the summer! Maybe not 100m for Rice though.

*City buy who they want, not who they need.*

Dont see liverpool spending that amount of cash unless hes not 100m.

I hope he avoids United like the plague - but he could be exactly what they need.
		
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There is so much wrong with that statement. All they need is a striker but will not be held to ransom. There’s a difference.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I thought the same about Grealish but if the head is turned, they're going. Someone will come in for him.

Chelsea could sell Werner to raise some capital and have a bit left over to top it up - theres no way they dont do something in the summer! Maybe not 100m for Rice though.

City buy who they want, not who they need.

Dont see liverpool spending that amount of cash unless hes not 100m.

I hope he avoids United like the plague - but he could be exactly what they need.
		
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Chelsea might have more pressing concerns in the summer if they lose three of their defenders on free transfers. That's going to need a decent amount to be spent to replace them which might not leave much to go after Rice. Having said that I'm not sure what will happen if the club gets bought with regards to how much they will be able to spend under a new owner.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			There is so much wrong with that statement. All they need is a striker but will not be held to ransom. There’s a difference.
		
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You needed Grealish then?

You already had (at the time of the transfer)

Foden
Mahrez
KDB
Torres
Bernado Silva
Jesus
Gundogan


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## davemc1 (Mar 7, 2022)

Paul James and Danfst. My post was mainly tongue in cheek. 

I could pick holes in both your arguments (but I’m not Pauldj or LPhil or well, the list goes on tbf..)
😆👍🏻


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			It was sold as money to keep going with infrastructure developments throughout the group.

No matter how you spin it, the portfolio of clubs like us and the red sox, chiefly, are the reasons why investors are buying in.
		
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Sold by who ?

They didn’t say anything about the money going anywhere , the media may have said something but the owners didn’t say a word 

There is no spin - they sold of a part of their company and then used the money to invest further in their company

The club will continue to invest any money it makes - the manager appears to be very happy with the way it works , and it’s certainly a method that provides the club with a stable platform , we aren’t relying on loans or owners personal money and the club improves on the pitch using the good old fashioned method of great recruitment and coaching - The player purchases have been superb without having to be silly and all through a pandemic. 

But as I said - there will always be some fans that think more money should be spent


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## Foxholer (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			It was sold as money to keep going with infrastructure developments throughout the group.

No matter how you spin it, the portfolio of clubs like us and the red sox, chiefly, are the reasons why investors are buying in.
		
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As I understand it, a healthy chunk of that 10% ($750M) was for 'funding' to replace the loss of income caused by the Covid pandemic. So not actually 'infrastructure developments'; more like cash flow! That's not a criticism of the business model, merely a reflection of the 'risk' associated with it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2022)

Do Spurs always play Barry Manilow directly before kick off 😳? I'm wondering quite how 'Can't Smile Without You' whips the players up into a frenzy 🤣


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do Spurs always play Barry Manilow directly before kick off 😳? I'm wondering quite how 'Can't Smile Without You' whips the players up into a frenzy 🤣
		
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some weeks they play at the copacabana


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2022)

Two mistakes from Everton and two goals. Looking bleak for the blues already.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 7, 2022)

Franks got Everton playing well 😊
Jesus it’s ridiculous how open they are.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

Terrible from Romero taking Richarlison out, very dangerous.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 7, 2022)

Man United will probably buy Michael Keane in the summer for £110 million


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## BrianM (Mar 7, 2022)

Everton look an absolute shambles 🙈


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Man United will probably buy Michael Keane in the summer for £110 million
		
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Improvement on Maguire to be fair🤭


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

everton showing more fight after the half time whistle goes than the 45 mnins before it lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Terrible from Romero taking Richarlison out, very dangerous.
		
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It was a Sunday league challenge. Could well have done some real damage.


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## Orikoru (Mar 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Terrible from Romero taking Richarlison out, very dangerous.
		
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Didn't see it but Richarlison is a piece of work anyway so probably deserved it.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 7, 2022)

Marcus Rashford must have the best agent EVER.
Apparently he’s “considering his future” after not getting enough game time.
Maybe he’s not getting enough game time because he’s not very good.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sold by who ?

They didn’t say anything about the money going anywhere , the media may have said something but the owners didn’t say a word

There is no spin - they sold of a part of their company and then used the money to invest further in their company

The club will continue to invest any money it makes - the manager appears to be very happy with the way it works , and it’s certainly a method that provides the club with a stable platform , we aren’t relying on loans or owners personal money and the club improves on the pitch using the good old fashioned method of great recruitment and coaching - The player purchases have been superb without having to be silly and all through a pandemic.

But as I said - there will always be some fans that think more money should be spent
		
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Come on Phil, you believe the media narrative when it suits you, but call it into question when it doesnt. How many media links have you posted up over the years?

Do you not think certain trusted journalists are informed of things?


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 7, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			As I understand it, a healthy chunk of that 10% ($750M) was for 'funding' to replace the loss of income caused by the Covid pandemic. So not actually 'infrastructure developments'; more like cash flow! That's not a criticism of the business model, merely a reflection of the 'risk' associated with it.
		
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I understand differently, and media outlets on both sides of the pond also said that it also meant that they could carry on with purchases and development of existing projects. For liverpool it would have meant the ARE development.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2022)

This could be a nightmare for Frank of epic proportions


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

must have been some half time speech from Frank that lol


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Didn't see it but Richarlison is a piece of work anyway so probably deserved it. 

Click to expand...

I'd agree in the main but not on this occassion, it was bad. 

I've seen him roll round longer clutching his face when he's not been touched than he did before😄


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Come on Phil, you believe the media narrative when it suits you, but call it into question when it doesnt. How many media links have you posted up over the years?

Do you not think certain trusted journalists are informed of things?
		
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Media narrative 🤷‍♂️

The media were all singing from the same sheet - 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...estment-fsg-transfer-window-b1825919.html?amp

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...pool-fsg-redbird-transfer-budget-20298765.amp

There was never any talk of the money being used to fund transfers - it was reported by those “trusted journalists” that any money filtered down would be used to help the club plug any financial gaps from Covid plus helping to continue the stadium build up 

There wasn’t a “$750mil” pot waiting to be spent on players


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			think they play our white ones, one of us is going to be happy at least 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Can i claim the victory on this one Steve?


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## Swango1980 (Mar 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Marcus Rashford must have the best agent EVER.
Apparently he’s “considering his future” after not getting enough game time.
Maybe he’s not getting enough game time because he’s not very good.
		
Click to expand...

That sums up players like him perfectly. They feel entitled to play for Man Utd. They simply take it for granted, and have no feeling they need to work hard to earn it.

Although, to be fair, maybe he is simply considering his future as a footballer full stop, and fancies working full time for a charity or some sort of social media influencer.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Media narrative 🤷‍♂️

The media were all singing from the same sheet -

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...estment-fsg-transfer-window-b1825919.html?amp

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...pool-fsg-redbird-transfer-budget-20298765.amp

There was never any talk of the money being used to fund transfers - it was reported by those “trusted journalists” that any money filtered down would be used to help the club plug any financial gaps from Covid plus helping to continue the stadium build up

There wasn’t a “$750mil” pot waiting to be spent on players
		
Click to expand...

Surely the Liverpool Echo won't be the most unbiased source


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Can i claim the victory on this one Steve?
		
Click to expand...


im glad someones happy


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## Dando (Mar 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Marcus Rashford must have the best agent EVER.
Apparently he’s “considering his future” after not getting enough game time.
Maybe he’s not getting enough game time because he’s not very good.
		
Click to expand...

I chuckled when I saw that


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That sums up players like him perfectly. They feel entitled to play for Man Utd. They simply take it for granted, and have no feeling they need to work hard to earn it.

Although, to be fair, maybe he is simply considering his future as a footballer full stop, and fancies working full time for a charity or some sort of social media influencer.
		
Click to expand...

Personally I think he gets a free pass because of his charity work.
He’s a typical UTD player.
They can sack as many managers as they want,but whilst they have players like him & Pogba they’ll not progress.


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## Orikoru (Mar 7, 2022)

Great finish but Holgate is just in no man's land?? This defence is painful watching for Everton fans.


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

maybe Benitez wasnt the problem.........


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			maybe Benitez wasnt the problem.........
		
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🤫 you have to say it quietly 

This could do a lot of damage to Lampards career


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 7, 2022)

Any chance we can have a separate thread for the Liverpool fans & sat nav to discuss the clubs finances?


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤫 you have to say it quietly

This could do a lot of damage to Lampards career
		
Click to expand...

damage? this will start his commentating career


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Surely the Liverpool Echo won't be the most unbiased source
		
Click to expand...

Whats it got to do with you? 

Back in yer box 😉


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## BiMGuy (Mar 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Marcus Rashford must have the best agent EVER.
Apparently he’s “considering his future” after not getting enough game time.
Maybe he’s not getting enough game time because he’s not very good.
		
Click to expand...

If he came to Leeds. We’d have a great front 3 of James, Bamford and Raphinha.


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			If he came to Leeds. We’d have a great front 3 of James, Bamford and Raphinha.
		
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some front 3 for the championship that if you can keep them all


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			damage? this will start his commentating career 

Click to expand...

😂

Someone needs to replace Merson on soccer Saturday I suppose


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## davemc1 (Mar 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do Spurs always play Barry Manilow directly before kick off 😳? I'm wondering quite how 'Can't Smile Without You' whips the players up into a frenzy 🤣
		
Click to expand...

It seems to have worked a treat bro 🤪


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## Jimaroid (Mar 7, 2022)

Are we allowed to say Richarlison looks good with yellow hair? 🇺🇦


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## davemc1 (Mar 7, 2022)

If spurs don’t score 10…


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			damage? this will start his commentating career 

Click to expand...

Overrated footballer,Overrated mamager and i'm calling it 1st, overrated commentator😉


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## Swango1980 (Mar 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Personally I think he gets a free pass because of his charity work.
He’s a typical UTD player.
They can sack as many managers as they want,but whilst they have players like him & Pogba they’ll not progress.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the charity work does not benefit Man United in winning games. If it wasn't for the charity work, would he not get a free pass? I guess that opinion some have is what makes him feel entitled?

The charity work was fantastic, but I see that as a separate issue. Also, if he or his agent are genuinely starting to whinge publicly now about their future, they are no better than Pogba. Rashford had been awful, he doesn't deserve to start. And, I'd like him to highlight the player should have their place taken away from them so he can play?


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Overrated footballer,Overrated mamager and i'm calling it 1st, overrated commentator😉
		
Click to expand...

harsh, no one rated him and agree


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## Orikoru (Mar 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			maybe Benitez wasnt the problem.........
		
Click to expand...

Holgate and Keane have looked like competition winners, absolutely clueless. Who is injured currently that's left them with these two clowns starting?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Overrated footballer,Overrated mamager and i'm calling it 1st, overrated commentator😉
		
Click to expand...

Thought the times he's done punditry work on things like Monday Night Football and others he's looked and sounded stilted so I am sure he'll get plenty of offers but think I'd almost prefer Robbie Savage


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Holgate and Keane have looked like competition winners, absolutely clueless. Who is injured currently that's left them with these two clowns starting?
		
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Mina the big miss for them at the back


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## BiMGuy (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤫 you have to say it quietly

This could do a lot of damage to Lampards career
		
Click to expand...

Did anyone actually rate Frank prior to this? 
The question is, do we think he’ll see the season out? Or is big Sam on standby!


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Unfortunately the charity work does not benefit Man United in winning games. If it wasn't for the charity work, would he not get a free pass? I guess that opinion some have is what makes him feel entitled?

The charity work was fantastic, but I see that as a separate issue. Also, if he or his agent are genuinely starting to whinge publicly now about their future, they are no better than Pogba. Rashford had been awful, he doesn't deserve to start. And, I'd like him to highlight the player should have their place taken away from them so he can play?
		
Click to expand...

I see him going to Newcastle & blagging a living there.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Did anyone actually rate Frank prior to this?
The question is, do we think he’ll see the season out? Or is big Sam on standby!
		
Click to expand...

They've been there done that.


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## Orikoru (Mar 7, 2022)

I liked Lampard as a pundit actually, thought he always speaks well. Obviously doesn't translate to management - I guess you can say Sky's the limit for him.

(Recycled G-Nev joke, sorry. 😆)


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			It seems to have worked a treat bro 🤪
		
Click to expand...

Apparently they are coming out to 'Mandy' next home game. When you have a winning formula..............


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Mina the big miss for them at the back
		
Click to expand...

Its mad how a few defeats and an injury to a player he ends up being talked about like hes Baresi or Matip😄


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Did anyone actually rate Frank prior to this?
The question is, do we think he’ll see the season out? Or is big Sam on standby!
		
Click to expand...

He will see the season out - I don’t think even Everton will sack him that quickly 

I think for Lampard the biggest problem is the Chelsea job came too early for him , and he did a decent job there but ultimately he hasn’t earned his stripes as they say. I’m surprised he took the job but even more surprised he was offered it . 

It’s a fight now between Everton , Burnley and Leeds for that last relegation and right now Everton would be the favourites to go down


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Its mad how a few defeats and an injury to a player he ends up being talked about like hes Baresi or Matip😄
		
Click to expand...


somewhere between the 2 for me


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## Orikoru (Mar 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Apparently they are coming out to 'Mandy' next home game. When you have a winning formula..............
		
Click to expand...

Don't Everton come out to the theme from Z Cars or something??


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I see him going to Newcastle & blagging a living there.
		
Click to expand...

Before the new money, yes. Now that they have lots of money and will stay up, no. They can do better.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I liked Lampard as a pundit actually, thought he always speaks well. Obviously doesn't translate to management - I guess you can say Sky's the limit for him.

(Recycled G-Nev joke, sorry. 😆)
		
Click to expand...

Think he’d make a very good pundit (definitely an upgrade on Carra)
Honestly can’t see why Everton went with him as manager tho.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Don't Everton come out to the theme from Z Cars or something??
		
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Have done for 50 years or so.

Do you normally play Barry right up to the whistle? Has that become a spurs thing?


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Before the new money, yes. Now that they have lots of money and will stay up, no. They can do better.
		
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Look at the players City were signing when they first got their money.


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## Orikoru (Mar 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Have done for 50 years or so.

Do you normally play Barry right up to the whistle?
		
Click to expand...

I don't remember them playing it before kick off, but Can't Smile Without You is a song that's associated with our fans so it makes sense. Not sure the origin but I've seen it referenced before.


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2022)

looking more and more likely the NLD will be held back to the end of the season now for the tv companies


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Don't Everton come out to the theme from Z Cars or something??
		
Click to expand...

You're correct https://theguideliverpool.com/the-story-behind-everton-football-club-and-the-z-cars-anthem/


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Look at the players City were signing when they first got their money.
		
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You could be right. Maybe Howe is the coach to sort him out?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2022)

Mike Riley will be on the phone tomorrow to Uncle Bill.

I believe he's scheduled the call for  5 past Pickford.....


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## Foxholer (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I understand differently, and media outlets on both sides of the pond also said that it also meant that they could carry on with purchases and development of existing projects. For liverpool it would have meant the ARE development.
		
Click to expand...

We are actually deeming it the same thing! Also known as BAU. So includes developments and purchases as if the pandemic hadn't happened. As I stated, not a criticism, but a sensible approach given the way FSG is set up. Man City wouldn't need to do it, given the deep pockets of the owner(s). Man U is set up slightly differently to Liverpool - as an asset of Red Football (through which Malcolm bought the club) - and they quantified the loss of earnings for 2000 as £167.2M. So a sensible approach by FSG - to bring another investor.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You could be right. Maybe Howe is the coach to sort him out?
		
Click to expand...

I can’t see Newcastle attracting players like David Silva & Aguero straight away.
I don’t think any manager “sorts him out” tbh.
I just don’t think he’s very good.
Just another player that’s made a good living out of potential.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Media narrative 🤷‍♂️

The media were all singing from the same sheet -

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...estment-fsg-transfer-window-b1825919.html?amp

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...pool-fsg-redbird-transfer-budget-20298765.amp

There was never any talk of the money being used to fund transfers - it was reported by those “trusted journalists” that any money filtered down would be used to help the club plug any financial gaps from Covid plus helping to continue the stadium build up

There wasn’t a “$750mil” pot waiting to be spent on players
		
Click to expand...

I never said it was.

I said that it would be used on projects, but said I think that they could have still spent some money in the transfer market (but not necessarily from the 750 pot).


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I can’t see Newcastle attracting players like David Silva & Aguero straight away.
I don’t think any manager “sorts him out” tbh.
I just don’t think he’s very good.
Just another player that’s made a good living out of potential.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that Newcastle will go through a middle level phase before attracting the real big boys. I think they will aim higher than Rashford though. If not, Howe is a coach that will improve him whereas at utd it's pretty clear he is in reverse gear. 

Perhaps a fresh start will do him good and he can turn that potential into something decent.


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## Foxholer (Mar 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I never said it was.

I said that it would be used on projects, but said I think that they could have still spent some money in the transfer market (*but not necessarily from the 750 pot*).
		
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Remember that pot is not just for Liverpool FC!


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## IanM (Mar 7, 2022)

Conte didn't look like he'd just won 5-0 

Frank sure looked like he had lost 5 though


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 7, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Remember that pot is not just for Liverpool FC!
		
Click to expand...

Yes, as I mentioned earlier.


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## Orikoru (Mar 8, 2022)

Romero's Instagram story today.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You needed Grealish then?

You already had (at the time of the transfer)

Foden
Mahrez
KDB
*Torres*
Bernado Silva
Jesus
Gundogan
		
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 He is at Barcelona now. He had itchy feet before the season started and it was suggested Grealish was his replacement. Gundogan is predominately  a central midfielder. And Jesus predominately a forward, who ironically plays better out wide. I get what you are saying coz you have missed a couple Of players out ( Stirling etc). But Pep has tried for players we need ie centre forwards but the club is now past the stage where it will be held to ransom for player fees. 
At the moment the transfer strategy and academy are working very well enabling City to compete for trophies. That may sound an odd statement but with the sale of Torres to Barca, City now have the second highest squad value behind Utd. And they are nowhere near competing for silverware. Another thing about City is they now have a squad in place that can put out a (young) team in 5 years time such is the planning. Happy days at the moment.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He is at Barcelona now. He had itchy feet before the season started and it was suggested Grealish was his replacement. Gundogan is predominately  a central midfielder. And Jesus predominately a forward, who ironically plays better out wide. I get what you are saying coz you have missed a couple Of players out ( Stirling etc). But Pep has tried for players we need ie centre forwards but the club is now past the stage where it will be held to ransom for player fees.
At the moment the transfer strategy and academy are working very well enabling City to compete for trophies. That may sound an odd statement but with the sale of Torres to Barca, City now have the second highest squad value behind Utd. And they are nowhere near competing for silverware. Another thing about City is they now have a squad in place that can put out a (young) team in 5 years time such is the planning. Happy days at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Knew I had missed someone off the list but I couldnt work out who!

You're a class outfit mate, envy of the footballing world - besides a number 9, you dont need any further talent or depth unless somone leaves.

You replaced Torres with Alvarez (albeit loaned back till summer)

You didnt NEED to buy Grealish for 100m and that was my point. He hasnt improved you nor is he really an improvement on what you had anyway. Thats a want purchase more than a need.

However - We all wish we could add a luxury 100m player into our squads and not even play them every game


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## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That sums up players like him perfectly. They feel entitled to play for Man Utd. They simply take it for granted, and have no feeling they need to work hard to earn it.

Although, to be fair, maybe he is simply considering his future as a footballer full stop, *and fancies working full time for a charity* or some sort of social media influencer.
		
Click to expand...

If he puts in a much effort working for charity as he did when he came on v City I wouldn’t let him loose with a bag of Big Issue on a street corner. That said he has done a fantastic job with his charity work. But I believe that’s on the back of him being a good footballer and at the moment he is far from that. 
Re putting effort in I saw both Everton and Spurs put in a right performance v City yet the following games were rammel. What’s that all about. Saw the score line walking past a pub last night. 😳 flipin eck Frank the vultures are circling early


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## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Knew I had missed someone off the list but I couldnt work out who!

You're a class outfit mate, envy of the footballing world - besides a number 9, you dont need any further talent or depth unless somone leaves.

You replaced Torres with Alvarez (albeit loaned back till summer)

You didnt NEED to buy Grealish for 100m and that was my point. He hasnt improved you nor is he really an improvement on what you had anyway. Thats a want purchase more than a need.

However - We all wish we could add a luxury 100m player into our squads and not even play them every game 

Click to expand...

When Pep won the title, the following season he bought Mahrez. City fans chins dropped. They couldn’t understand why. Especially as he had a poor first season. He explained that mahrez has excellent feet, his first touch is exquisite, he goes past players. Pep noticed rams were packing the box and space was tight. Mahrez does create and score chances. I prefer him to Stirling. Grealish does exactly the same, he was the most fouled player last season. His best two games have been the last two, granted it was only the Posh and Utd😉 But his link up play is very good.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Re putting effort in I saw both Everton and Spurs put in a right performance v City yet the following games were rammel. *What’s that all about. Saw the score line walking past a pub last night. 😳 flipin eck* Frank the vultures are circling early
		
Click to expand...

We decided to play a high line and a pressing game against one of the best counter attacking front 2 in the league . It was pretty much text book 'how not to play against Spurs'. 

Incidentally, Everton didn't give up last night, they didn't stop running or working. They just got thoroughly out played.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			When Pep won the title, the following season he bought Mahrez. City fans chins dropped. They couldn’t understand why. Especially as he had a poor first season. He explained that mahrez has excellent feet, his first touch is exquisite, he goes past players. Pep noticed rams were packing the box and space was tight. Mahrez does create and score chances. I prefer him to Stirling. Grealish does exactly the same, he was the most fouled player last season. His best two games have been the last two, granted it was only the Posh and Utd😉 But his link up play is very good.
		
Click to expand...

But still, you say you wont be held to ransom but paid 100m for a player who just slots in nicely. They cost you 40-60 mill in the past, this time you broke the british transfer record fee. 

Im not doubting Grealish's talent either - I dont think there is a player like him in the prem and on his day hes unreal. He kept us up in our first season back in the prem. Not many players could do that almost by themselves - dont think any of your other players could in fact, maybe KDB.

Hes also been the most fouled since entering the league by an absolute land slide!

The point remains though, City can buy who they want and they do. If they need them now or in 2 years time - Alvarez looks like he could be a baller.


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## Fade and Die (Mar 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We decided to play a high line and a pressing game against one of the best counter attacking front 2 in the league . It was pretty much text book 'how not to play against Spurs'.

Incidentally, Everton didn't give up last night, they didn't stop running or working. They just got thoroughly out played.
		
Click to expand...

Lampard is simply not competent for the Everton job…. It unbelievable the owner would bring in a young manager with no experience of a relegation battle.

Still it’s who the fans wanted. 👍


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## Neilds (Mar 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			But still, you say you wont be held to ransom but paid 100m for a player who just slots in nicely. They cost you 40-60 mill in the past, this time you broke the british transfer record fee.

Im not doubting Grealish's talent either - I dont think there is a player like him in the prem and on his day hes unreal. He kept us up in our first season back in the prem. Not many players could do that almost by themselves - dont think any of your other players could in fact, maybe KDB.

*Hes also been the most fouled since entering the league by an absolute land slide!*

The point remains though, City can buy who they want and they do. If they need them now or in 2 years time - Alvarez looks like he could be a baller.
		
Click to expand...

Why do people keep trotting out this pointless fact?  Just because he is fouled a lot doesn't mean he is a great player.  It could mean he holds onto the ball too long and is greedy.
Also, in the Premier League, a direct free kick is scored about once in 18 attempts, so unless he is fouled around the penalty area 18 times a game, the free kicks do not lead to many goals either.

The stat is up there with TAA and Robertson being brilliant because they get loads of assists - they take corners and free kicks so should get lots of assists - stats can prove everything and nothing


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## Bdill93 (Mar 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Lampard is simply not competent for the Everton job…. It unbelievable the owner would bring in a young manager with no experience of a relegation battle.

Still it’s who the fans wanted. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Someone has to become the next Big Sam though! He wont be around forever!


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## phillarrow (Mar 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Lampard is simply not competent for the Everton job…. It unbelievable the owner would bring in a young manager with no experience of a relegation battle.

Still it’s who the fans wanted. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Eddie Howe's only real experience of a relegation battle was in taking Bournemouth down! Not working out too badly for Newcastle! 

A good manager is a good manager. I don't buy the idea that they have to have direct experience of X in order to succeed. Pep had no experience of managing a first team before he took over at Barcelona!


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## Bdill93 (Mar 8, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Why do people keep trotting out this pointless fact?  Just because he is fouled a lot doesn't mean he is a great player.  It could mean he holds onto the ball too long and is greedy.
Also, in the Premier League, a direct free kick is scored about once in 18 attempts, so unless he is fouled around the penalty area 18 times a game, the free kicks do not lead to many goals either.

The stat is up there with TAA and Robertson being brilliant because they get loads of assists - they take corners and free kicks so should get lots of assists - stats can prove everything and nothing 

Click to expand...

I was just stating the fact. Doesnt bother me either way, I dont think it helps City but it did help break up play for Villa to be fair.

Regarding assists, thats a different take - TAA is filth, no RB in the world is as productive as Trent with assists in a top European league. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/statistik/topvorlagengeber


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## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Eddie Howe's only real experience of a relegation battle was in taking Bournemouth down! Not working out too badly for Newcastle!

A good manager is a good manager. I don't buy the idea that they have to have direct experience of X in order to succeed.* Pep had no experience of managing a first team before he took over at Barcelona![*/QUOTE]
He was actually seen as a gamble o be the manager and am sure his career there didn’t start to well for the first few games. Ironically am sure Mourinhio was one of the favourites for the job 😳
		
Click to expand...


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## Neilds (Mar 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I was just stating the fact. Doesnt bother me either way, I dont think it helps City but it did help break up play for Villa to be fair.

Regarding assists, thats a different take - TAA is filth, no RB in the world is as productive as Trent with assists in a top European league. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/statistik/topvorlagengeber

Click to expand...

But take out corners and free kicks, and where is he on the list?  It's like saying you have signed a 20 goals a season striker when he gets half from penalties


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## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Why do people keep trotting out this pointless fact?  Just because he is fouled a lot doesn't mean he is a great player.  It could mean he holds onto the ball too long and is greedy.
Also, in the Premier League, a direct free kick is scored about once in 18 attempts, so unless he is fouled around the penalty area 18 times a game, the free kicks do not lead to many goals either.

The stat is up there with TAA and Robertson being brilliant because they get loads of assists - they take corners and free kicks so should get lots of assists - stats can prove everything and nothing 

Click to expand...

He gets fouled because he invites challenges. What I find odd is you quote a pointless fact ( getting fouled) then quote a pointless fact. 😳 ie 1 in 18 free kicks involves a direct goal. Who said every free kick is an attempt at goal. Running down the clock, breaking up tempo, ball Possession, yellow cards all come from free kicks. Again I don’t get the TAA and Robertson quote, to counter I will chuck in Wan Bassaka. I don’t want to see his stats to tell me he is rammel compared to when he was at Palace.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 8, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Why do people keep trotting out this pointless fact?  Just because he is fouled a lot doesn't mean he is a great player.  It could mean he holds onto the ball too long and is greedy.
Also, in the Premier League, a direct free kick is scored about once in 18 attempts, so unless he is fouled around the penalty area 18 times a game, the free kicks do not lead to many goals either.

The stat is up there with TAA and Robertson being brilliant because they get loads of assists - they take corners and free kicks so should get lots of assists - stats can prove everything and nothing 

Click to expand...


So, your first point is that dead ball situations are pointless as they don't lead to goals, only to then claim that liverpool wingbacks get the majority of their assists from dead ball situations.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We decided to play a high line and a pressing game against one of the best counter attacking front 2 in the league . It was pretty much text book 'how not to play against Spurs'.

Incidentally, Everton didn't give up last night, they didn't stop running or working. They just got thoroughly out played.
		
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I was singing Franks praises when he set up v City last week. I cannot believe how naive he would of been v Spurs having seen how they did an excellent job against us the eek before. Especially seeing as they could of put five past us.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Lampard is simply not competent for the Everton job…. It unbelievable the owner would bring in a young manager with no experience of a relegation battle.

Still it’s who the fans wanted. 👍
		
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The managers who are good in relegation battles tend to only be good at that. Fire fighters but not what you would want otherwise. I'm with @phillarrow , a good manager is a good manager. It is too early to tell yet whether Lampard will be a good manager for us.

He has us playing well at home but he needs to resolve our away form and tighten the defence, something that was equally at fault under Benitez. For one, we are truly terrifying to watch at corners. Every corner is a chance for the opposition, a real chance.

In terms of who the fans wanted it came down to a bloke with an okay record that no one really knew and certainly had no English experience, Lampard and Rooney. There was no clambouring for Lampard, no petitions etc. He was the best option of the 3 that were looked at. Should we have gone for Rooney because he has experience of Derby being in a relegation battle?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I was singing Franks praises when he set up v City last week. I cannot believe how naive he would of been v Spurs having seen how they did an excellent job against us the eek before. Especially seeing as they could of put five past us.
		
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Mate, Lampard himself warned fans to ignore the table prior to the City/Spurs matches, we are a bad team in a bad place at the moment. 

We could of lost 7 or 8 Nil, but at the same time the first 2 goals were from bad mistakes.

The chances Spurs missed came from their best passages of Football.

Last nights result changes nothing for us and Lampard is only 5 games in! The only ones jumping on the bandwagon questioning him are opposition fans!


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## Orikoru (Mar 8, 2022)

Neilds said:



			But take out corners and free kicks, and where is he on the list?  It's like saying you have signed a 20 goals a season striker when he gets half from penalties
		
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Of TAA's 18 assists this season, 2 were corners and 2 were free kicks. So that leaves 14 open play assists. I don't even understand the point, it's not like players from other teams don't take corners and free kicks? In the Premier League only it's 11 minus 3 for corners and free kicks which leaves 8 assists - still nobody else in the league has higher other than Salah.


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## nickjdavis (Mar 8, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Eddie Howe's only real experience of a relegation battle was in taking Bournemouth down!
		
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Wrong.

He prevented Bournemouth from dropping out of the league entirely in his first season of management....this was after they started the season on minus 17 points and were still 10 points adrift when he took over at the end of December.


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## Fade and Die (Mar 8, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Eddie Howe's only real experience of a relegation battle was in taking Bournemouth down! Not working out too badly for Newcastle!

A good manager is a good manager. I don't buy the idea that they have to have direct experience of X in order to succeed. Pep had no experience of managing a first team before he took over at Barcelona!
		
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Maybe not Direct experience in relegation battles but Lampard just needs *more* experience before being ready for a relegation dogfight with a poor team. 
Eddie Howe has managed over 500 games, he is a proven manager, getting Bournemouth into the Prem.
I agree with you that a good manager is a good manager but you will have to point out to me why you think Lampard is a good manager as I’ve not seen anything yet.


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## phillarrow (Mar 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Maybe not Direct experience in relegation battles but Lampard just needs *more* experience before being ready for a relegation dogfight with a poor team.
Eddie Howe has managed over 500 games, he is a proven manager, getting Bournemouth into the Prem.
I agree with you that a good manager is a good manager but you will have to point out to me why you think Lampard is a good manager as I’ve not seen anything yet.
		
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Where did I say that I think Lampard is a good manager? What I said was that I don't believe a manager needs relegation experience to save a club from relegation.


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## Orikoru (Mar 8, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Where did I say that I think Lampard is a good manager? What I said was that I don't believe a manager needs relegation experience to save a club from relegation.
		
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Yes and no I think. First and foremost the manager just needs to get the players playing and get the best out of them - provided they have good enough players to stay up. However, the managers with experience of relegation battles do tend to be a bit more pragmatic and better at sorting out defences. In Everton's case the defence is awful so this really should have been looked at first. Say what you like about the likes of Big Sam etc, but this is what they do - recognise that a solid defence is needed to stay up. (Not playing a back three of Keane, Holgate and Coleman against a team that can literally only counter attack through Kane and Son.)


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 8, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Why do people keep trotting out this pointless fact? * Just because he is fouled a lot doesn't mean he is a great player. * It could mean he holds onto the ball too long and is greedy.
Also, in the Premier League, a direct free kick is scored about once in 18 attempts, so unless he is fouled around the penalty area 18 times a game, the free kicks do not lead to many goals either.

The stat is up there with TAA and Robertson being brilliant because they get loads of assists - they take corners and free kicks so should get lots of assists - stats can prove everything and nothing 

Click to expand...

He's not the most fouled player; he is however the player who has been awarded the most free kicks when he's apparently lost his footing for little discernible reason...


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## Neilds (Mar 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He gets fouled because he invites challenges. What I find odd is you quote a pointless fact ( getting fouled) then quote a pointless fact. 😳 ie 1 in 18 free kicks involves a direct goal. Who said every free kick is an attempt at goal. Running down the clock, breaking up tempo, ball Possession, yellow cards all come from free kicks. Again I don’t get the TAA and Robertson quote, to counter I will chuck in Wan Bassaka. I don’t want to see his stats to tell me he is rammel compared to when he was at Palace.
		
Click to expand...

I actually quoted direct free kicks leading to a goal not free kicks leading to a direct goal - two different stats, especially as a direct free kick is a direct attempt at goal 
Getting the most fouls has about as much impact on a game as winning the most throw ins.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			He's not the most fouled player; he is however the player who has been awarded the most free kicks when he's apparently lost his footing for *little discernible reason.*.. 

Click to expand...

That don’t narrow it down 😉


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## fundy (Mar 8, 2022)

Lewandowski looking good for 2nd in the ballon d'or again


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## adam6177 (Mar 8, 2022)

Another crowd medical emergency.... Nearly 1 a week at the moment. Got to be covid or covid jab related surely.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 8, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Another crowd medical emergency.... Nearly 1 a week at the moment. Got to be covid or covid jab related surely.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500563860952133639


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 8, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Another crowd medical emergency.... Nearly 1 a week at the moment. Got to be covid or covid jab related surely.
		
Click to expand...

Or is it just that matches are being stopped now when something occurs? I'm sure someone posted that in previous seasons the game went on during these incidents but now the game is stopped while the person gets medical treatment. 

No idea what the stats would be but there are hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of fans attending matches each week. In an environment where alcohol, and possibly drugs, are consumed and people are getting excited or angry over what is happening on the pitch then there are always going to be people that have medical emergencies, whether that is due to falling down steps while drunk or having a heart attack. What I don't understand is why nearly all of the reports are coming from football crowds. I haven't heard of any from rugby matches or other sports.


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## Foxholer (Mar 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Or is it just that matches are being stopped now when something occurs? I'm sure someone posted that in previous seasons the game went on during these incidents but now the game is stopped while the person gets medical treatment.
...
		
Click to expand...

This!


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## Swango1980 (Mar 8, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Or is it just that matches are being stopped now when something occurs? I'm sure someone posted that in previous seasons the game went on during these incidents but now the game is stopped while the person gets medical treatment. 

No idea what the stats would be but there are hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of fans attending matches each week. In an environment where alcohol, and possibly drugs, are consumed and people are getting excited or angry over what is happening on the pitch then there are always going to be people that have medical emergencies, whether that is due to falling down steps while drunk or having a heart attack. What I don't understand is why nearly all of the reports are coming from football crowds. I haven't heard of any from rugby matches or other sports.
		
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Do rugby fans get as irate at matches as football fans?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Another crowd medical emergency.... Nearly 1 a week at the moment. Got to be covid or covid jab related surely.
		
Click to expand...

Or a couple years under lockdown and semi lockdown conditions made peoples bodies not as in good condition as before 

My physio is getting more and more work on people who have strained abnormal muscles.. for example I did my hip flex.. he said he normally gets 1 a year and when he was treating mine he had 10 people will this condition.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 8, 2022)

If it was you or your loved ones wouldn't you want anything to benefit the situation to happen. If that means stopping the match then so be it.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 8, 2022)

Couple of very strange decisions from this ref!


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## BiMGuy (Mar 8, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Another crowd medical emergency.... Nearly 1 a week at the moment. Got to be covid or covid jab related surely.
		
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Maybe all those Stone Island clad overweight middle aged men need to lay off the marching powder and booze along with stopping getting themselves so wound up at football matches. It’s clearly not doing their health any good.


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## greenone (Mar 8, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Couple of very strange decisions from this ref!
		
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How Sanchez got away with the first tackle I do not know.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 9, 2022)

That was harder than it needed to be at Anfield but got the job done. Managed to catch the penalties at Wigan as I've a mate who is a big Sutton fan and well pleased they reached Wembley in their first season. Think he's getting me a ticket so will be a grand day out


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

Mad game last night, we were a bit sloppy at times with the ball. Created quite a few chances aswell as hitting the post twice and crossbar once. 

Special mention to the ref though, hes 1 crazy man him. If he's Spains best ref then spanish football has the same problems as the PL. 

There were about 6 tackles in the 90mins that should've been shown a card, he blew and booked 1, waved the rest play on but dished out 10 yellow cards. Mad 😁😁

Disappointing to lose but glad to get through. Inter are a very good side though.


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## Captainron (Mar 9, 2022)

Is that VvD’s first ever loss at Anfield?


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## Neilds (Mar 9, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			That was harder than it needed to be at Anfield but got the job done. Managed to catch the penalties at Wigan as I've a mate who is a big Sutton fan and well pleased they reached Wembley in their first season. Think he's getting me a ticket so will be a grand day out
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully not too grand if the Mighty Millers win their semi final tonight 
Will be at Wembley if we win, always a good day for those of us that don't go very often


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 9, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Hopefully not too grand if the Mighty Millers win their semi final tonight 
Will be at Wembley if we win, always a good day for those of us that don't go very often
		
Click to expand...

I had connections with both Banstead FC and Carshalton FC so Sutton were always seen as the noisy neighbours but pleased for them. Hoping they can make a Crazy Gang Wimbledon rise up the leagues. They certainly seem to have hit the ground running


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Is that VvD’s first ever loss at Anfield?
		
Click to expand...

I believe so.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 9, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



*Or is it just that matches are being stopped now when something occurs? I'm sure someone posted that in previous seasons the game went on during these incidents but now the game is stopped while the person gets medical treatment.*

No idea what the stats would be but there are hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of fans attending matches each week. In an environment where alcohol, and possibly drugs, are consumed and people are getting excited or angry over what is happening on the pitch then there are always going to be people that have medical emergencies, whether that is due to falling down steps while drunk or having a heart attack. What I don't understand is why nearly all of the reports are coming from football crowds. I haven't heard of any from rugby matches or other sports.
		
Click to expand...

This all day. Two weeks ago my cousins husband took his dad to a game. After the game he put his dad in the passenger seat of his car. Walked around to the drivers seat and his dad had a massive heart attack and died. 20 mins earlier he may well have been in the ground and had better immediate medical attention.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I believe so.
		
Click to expand...

He was in the team that lost against Atletico- the “unbeaten” stat for VVD is for the Premier league I believe


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## Swango1980 (Mar 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He was in the team that lost against Atletico- the “unbeaten” stat for VVD is for the Premier league I believe
		
Click to expand...

What I read from that was "VVD struggles against European opponents"


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501639420335820803
😲


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## adam6177 (Mar 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501639420335820803
😲
		
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Rumours are they'll be hit with it next season. So expect legal action from a team(s) who get relegated.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 9, 2022)

Been reported a lot today. Seem Everton are in a real mess with players having relegation clauses, and struggling to adhere to the profit/loss rules. Having never gone down from the top division this must be worrying times and it seems a shame on the day ex-manager Gordon Lee died to see a side you were use to always being mid table at the very least and managing a few seasons back to get Europa League football


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## Tashyboy (Mar 9, 2022)

In a bar in Lanzarote watching the game. RM v PSG on all the tellys bar one. It’s fair to say the commentator on the RM game is passionate. 😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Mar 9, 2022)

😳 it’s fair to say the folk in the pub are very happy PSG are ahead.


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## fundy (Mar 9, 2022)

Interesting game for Mbappe, scored in both legs for the team hes supposedly leaving on a free to the side they are knocking out


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## Tashyboy (Mar 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Interesting game for Mbappe, scored in both legs for the team hes supposedly leaving on a free to the side they are knocking out 

Click to expand...

I think real deffo need him if real want the champs league again.


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## fundy (Mar 9, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think real deffo need him if real want the champs league again.
		
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not a side in the world who dont want him (or there shouldnt be), on his day hes as good as anyone and all but unplayable


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 9, 2022)

Amazing that all the latest transfer rumours are that Mbappe is going to Real and Haaland is going to Barca. Two clubs with massive debts are somehow finding hundreds of millions to pay the contracts of the two most wanted players in the world. It's almost as though the financial fair play rules in Europe don't apply to the biggest clubs.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Amazing that all the latest transfer rumours are that Mbappe is going to Real and Haaland is going to Barca. Two clubs with massive debts are somehow finding hundreds of millions to pay the contracts of the two most wanted players in the world. It's almost as though the financial fair play rules in Europe don't apply to the biggest clubs.
		
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Guess it will help that Mbappe will cost nil and Halaand around £50mil

Both will shed a load of wages this summer as well when they get rid of loads of very highly paid bench warmers

Their wages will be the reason why only those two clubs will get them 

I’m surprised if PSG don’t try and grab Haaland to replace Mbappe


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## Tashyboy (Mar 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			not a side in the world who dont want him (or there shouldnt be), on his day hes as good as anyone and all but unplayable
		
Click to expand...

I saw him in Monaco when they battered City. I didn’t think it would be possible for a Player to be that quick.


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## fundy (Mar 9, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Amazing that all the latest transfer rumours are that Mbappe is going to Real and Haaland is going to Barca. Two clubs with massive debts are somehow finding hundreds of millions to pay the contracts of the two most wanted players in the world. It's almost as though the financial fair play rules in Europe don't apply to the biggest clubs.
		
Click to expand...


Mbappe going on a free so only a question of wages/agents fees signing on bonuses lol, very much a case of it was always his dream as a kid to be a galactico etc

Be utterly shocked if Haaland goes to Barca tbh


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2022)

Well that’s going to make things interesting


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Mbappe going on a free so only a question of wages/agents fees signing on bonuses lol, very much a case of it was always his dream as a kid to be a galactico etc

Be utterly shocked if Haaland goes to Barca tbh
		
Click to expand...

What do you think we're talking about in terms of wages? Got to be between £500k and £1 million a week. So between £26 and £52 million a year just in wages. Would guess that agent fees and signing bonus will be at least double the upper estimate so another £100 million plus. Then there's the knock on effect of other players seeing what you're willing to pay for top players and bumping up their own wage demands. It's going to be crazy money over a 5 or 6 year contract.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2022)

Well well well - are PSG doing their standard CL exit 

wow 😮


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## Tashyboy (Mar 9, 2022)

Who’s Mbappe 😂
pubs going mad😂😂😂😖😖😖😖😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Mar 9, 2022)

Unbelievable. PSG are doing a Spurs. Meltdown


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## nickjdavis (Mar 9, 2022)

Pity.... I was hoping for extra time I was enjoying the game so much.


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## nickjdavis (Mar 9, 2022)

25 minutes ago I was thinking that it would take some team to stop PSG winning the CL this year!! 🤣 🤣


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

What a game in Madrid!!


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## Bdill93 (Mar 9, 2022)

Ahh PSG… maybe you need Ronaldo too 😂 

How much are they paying messi again? 😂😂😂


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			25 minutes ago I was thinking that it would take some team to stop PSG winning the CL this year!! 🤣 🤣
		
Click to expand...

They've got that vulnerability about them that you just know they'll Spursy it 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2022)

Has the Spursy bug stuck with Pochettino 😁


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Ahh PSG… maybe you need Ronaldo too 😂

How much are they paying messi again? 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Coutinho would sort them out🤭


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Mbappe going on a free so only a question of wages/agents fees signing on bonuses lol, very much a case of it was always his dream as a kid to be a galactico etc

Be utterly shocked if Haaland goes to Barca tbh
		
Click to expand...

You'd think/hope Barca would remember the financial situation they've recently been in and not go back down that same route again.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 9, 2022)

You can take Pochettino out of Spurs, but you can't take Spurs out of Pochettino.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 9, 2022)

What a night to be watching that game in a Spanish pub. Real Madrid game wasn’t bad either. 😁


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

What a game that was. For all the quality PSG have got, they've got no bollocks whatsoever.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 9, 2022)

PSG; Panic, , Gone.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			What a game that was. For all the quality PSG have got, they've got no bollocks whatsoever.
		
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Poch to Utd end of season. 🤔😉


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 9, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Poch to Utd end of season. 🤔😉
		
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Not sure about that, but Zidane to PSG for sure


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Poch to Utd end of season. 🤔😉
		
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If not by the weekend. The owners of PSG want the CL trophy. Just another Ligue 1 isnt enough.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			What a game that was. For all the quality PSG have got, they've got no bollocks whatsoever.
		
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They still just don’t have good enough CB’s


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## Swango1980 (Mar 9, 2022)

Is Neymar actually a decent player? There was chat years ago he could be best in the world. He did nothing tonight. In fact, I've never seen him dominate a game, just the odd fancy flick every now and then


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			If not by the weekend. The owners of PSG want the CL trophy. *Just another Ligue 1 isnt enough.*

Click to expand...

An in general 1 team league.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Is Neymar actually a decent player? There was chat years ago he could be best in the world. He did nothing tonight. In fact, I've never seen him dominate a game, just the odd fancy flick every now and then
		
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Have always believe him to be overrated - very good player , has scored a lot of goals but goes missing too many times when the big game comes around and the team need him to step up


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## fundy (Mar 9, 2022)

who needs Mbappe when youve got Benzema it seems


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Is Neymar actually a decent player? There was chat years ago he could be best in the world. He did nothing tonight. In fact, I've never seen him dominate a game, just the odd fancy flick every now and then
		
Click to expand...

He's a luxurious player imo. Got all the skills just not sure he's a team player. Like most of the PSG squad.


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## hairball_89 (Mar 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			who needs Mbappe when youve got Benzema it seems 

Click to expand...

He's an absolute Sh*thouse, but a wonderful player. Absolutely magnificent striker when he's on his game. Absolutely unplayable.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 9, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Been reported a lot today. Seem Everton are in a real mess with players having relegation clauses, and struggling to adhere to the profit/loss rules. Having never gone down from the top division this must be worrying times and it seems a shame on the day ex-manager Gordon Lee died to see a side you were use to always being mid table at the very least and managing a few seasons back to get Europa League football
		
Click to expand...

They went down in the 5o's - when they came back up, they passed us on the way down.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You'd think/hope Barca would remember the financial situation they've recently been in and not go back down that same route again.
		
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They have to be seen to be rivalling Real in player profile, transfer spend etc and any president has to be ambitious.....even if they nearly bankrupt the club.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He's a luxurious player imo. Got all the skills just not sure he's a team player. Like most of the PSG squad.
		
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Strange how perception don’t equate to what happened. There was a stat on Spanish telly. Neymar put the 2nd highest yardage in( Verrati top)But was it in the wrong places 🤔


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## Bdill93 (Mar 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Coutinho would sort them out🤭
		
Click to expand...

Think he would tbf


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## pokerjoke (Mar 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have always believe him to be overrated - very good player , has scored a lot of goals but goes missing too many times when the big game comes around and the team need him to step up
		
Click to expand...

A la Salah


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Strange how perception don’t equate to what happened. There was a stat on Spanish telly. Neymar put the 2nd highest yardage in( Verrati top)But was it in the wrong places 🤔
		
Click to expand...

That stat just proves he's done loads of running. What was his stats for tackling, accuracy  completed passes, touches in the oppo box etc 😉
Lets leave the statistics to internet know alls. 👍

On a serious note though, that PSG side who had just conceded to make it 2-1 showed not desire to make sure they never conceded another goal. 
They just knew theyd concede another, just not that quick i dont think 😁

Too many superstars and not enough grafters.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Think he would tbf
		
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Booooooo, i didnt think it would be that easy 🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			An in general 1 team league.....

Click to expand...

You're not wrong, only for Liverpool the PL would be the same in recent seaaons.


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## 4LEX (Mar 9, 2022)

Neymar has literally wasted his peak years dossing it in France. Terrible move for him and also for PSG. They were a much better side without him and he's caused the toxic dressing room due to his fake injuries, getting booked or red carded to miss games and generally being allowed to give it 20%. A shame as for a few years at Barca he was easily the third best player in the world.

Poch and PSG is the worst possible fit. I bet he hates half his own players and can't wait to leave. Ditto Messi, who cuts a sad figure and clearly doesn't want to be there.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 10, 2022)

Is that the end for Poch and will he be released before the end of the season as title is almost done and dusted. Brilliant game but how poor was the PSG game management.


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## Billysboots (Mar 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, of course, we can just buy players in. However, if we treated it that simply, we'd probably just be continuing our awful policy of throwing money around and thinking our problems will be solved.

I've no idea who is in charge of identifying and buying players. I used to think the manager would have a large input into this, however signings like De Beek indicate this is simply not the case. And, it has been a disaster. Ragnick only just got appointed before the transfer window, AND he is only a temporary replacement. So, do United go out and spend big money in the January transfer window, for players Ragnick may not want? Before he has even had the chance to get to properly know the players that are at the club? And, even if there were players he wanted, it won't work out so well if the new manager next season does not fancy them. Finally, what club is willing to sell their best players mid season to United, assuming these players are talented enough to show significant improvement to a shambles of a team?

Basically, United have made plenty of mistakes season after season. I was simply saying that, due to these mistakes, Ragnick has no real choice to play Fred and McTomminay in games like yesterday. The best solution is not to rush out and panic buy, but to ensure as soon as possible they know who the manager will be next season (I can only hope this is all being done efficiently behind the scenes, and maybe already settled). Then work out what long term direction they want to go in. They also need to be ruthless. If players show they are not good enough, get rid asap. In the Ferguson years, there was no hesitation in even getting rid of big players like Stam, Beckham, Keane and Van Nistlerooy, yet today not only are we holding on to Pogba, but we still have Phil Jones, Mata, Matic, etc. The people who run the club have become hoarders of players, it is ridiculous.
		
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The scattergun transfer approach has been a huge problem for years, as has the strange difficulty United seem to have in moving on the deadwood. The result is what we now have - a bloated squad of individuals. It’s there for all to see, week in, week out, with pundits left scratching their heads at why a squad which looks so good on paper simply cannot perform. It’s the culmination of years of transfer policy chaos.

The other issue, of course, is the ludicrous prices we have been paying for those players. And why is that? Simply because clubs like Leicester no longer need to sell to survive. Rich owners have come in and, when United come calling, desperate for a new centre half, right back and so on, the world knows how desperate we are and the selling club holds out for an exorbitant fee. Harry Maguire is the classic example - at £80m we paid AT LEAST £40m too much.

I agree with everything you say. Get the managerial appointment sorted ASAP, hit the reset button and start from scratch. The club should have done it years ago. And I’m afraid now it’s going to take several more years before the club are remotely competitive again.


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## Neilds (Mar 10, 2022)

WEMBERLEE!!!!
Great cup tie last night between Hartlepool and Rotherham, pity someone had to lose.  Penalties is never good for for the players, but is great for the fans - if you win.
Looking forward to a day out at Wembley at the beginning of Apr, first part of a possible league and cup double


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Booooooo, i didnt think it would be that easy 🤣🤣
		
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Coutinho is absolute filth mate!

Best player I've seen in a villa shirt. Just dont want to fall in love too hard and then not get him in summer


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## Beezerk (Mar 10, 2022)

Neilds said:



			WEMBERLEE!!!!
Great cup tie last night between Hartlepool and Rotherham, pity someone had to lose.  Penalties is never good for for the players, but is great for the fans - if you win.
Looking forward to a day out at Wembley at the beginning of Apr, first part of a possible league and cup double 

Click to expand...

Free pizza in Rotherham on that day 🍕 😂


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Neymar has literally wasted his peak years dossing it in France. Terrible move for him and also for PSG. They were a much better side without him and he's caused the toxic dressing room due to his fake injuries, getting booked or red carded to miss games and generally being allowed to give it 20%. A shame as for a few years at Barca he was easily the third best player in the world.

Poch and PSG is the worst possible fit. I bet he hates half his own players and can't wait to leave. Ditto Messi, who cuts a sad figure and clearly doesn't want to be there.
		
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Every time I watched him last night, the effort levels were so poor. Clearly not a happy man. Moving to France was the worst footballing decision he could have made - but hey - he followed the money and is laughing all the way to the bank!

Should have come to the Prem or at least a league where there is some actual competition


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## adam6177 (Mar 10, 2022)

A wise man once said.... Mbappe is just French Theo Walcott.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 10, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			A wise man once said.... Mbappe is just French Theo Walcott.
		
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That wise man is talking utter rubbish.

He's comfortably world class.


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## Orikoru (Mar 10, 2022)

adam6177 said:



A wise man *An idiot* once said.... Mbappe is just French Theo Walcott.
		
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Just corrected that for you.


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## phillarrow (Mar 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			What a game that was. For all the quality PSG have got, they've got no bollocks whatsoever.
		
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That's definitely true, but I think there's also an issue that their opposition will always feel there's a chance. When a club has a reputation as bottlers, their opposition will always feel that if they get one goal...  This then leads to more occasions when they seem to bottle it. And so on. 
Cycles like this are just really hard to break and it would take a massive culture shift at PSG, along with a real leader of men in the manager's seat, to ever have them winning the Champions League. Poch was always going to be the wrong man for this one.


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## Orikoru (Mar 10, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			That's definitely true, but I think there's also an issue that their opposition will always feel there's a chance. When a club has a reputation as bottlers, their opposition will always feel that if they get one goal...  This then leads to more occasions when they seem to bottle it. And so on.
Cycles like this are just really hard to break and it would take a massive culture shift at PSG, along with a real leader of men in the manager's seat, to ever have them winning the Champions League. *Poch* was always going to be the wrong man for this one.
		
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Hopefully he hangs on until the end of the season so he can come back to us when Conte gets bored and jacks it in.


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## Jensen (Mar 10, 2022)

Massive news: Roman Abramovich sanctioned. All UK assets frozen. Chelsea can still operate under a special licence but sale now on hold. Club will not be allowed to sell any more tickets - only season ticket holders can go to games for the foreseeable future

Taken from Twitter and reported on Sky News. Been added to UK sanction list.

Not before time 👍


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Massive news: Roman Abramovich sanctioned. All UK assets frozen. Chelsea can still operate under a special licence but sale now on hold. Club will not be allowed to sell any more tickets - only season ticket holders can go to games for the foreseeable future

Taken from Twitter and reported on Sky News. Been added to UK sanction list.

Not before time 👍
		
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Be like City with the empty seats 😁


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## Swango1980 (Mar 10, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			The scattergun transfer approach has been a huge problem for years, as has the strange difficulty *United seem to have in moving on the deadwood. *The result is what we now have - a bloated squad of individuals. It’s there for all to see, week in, week out, with pundits left scratching their heads at why a squad which looks so good on paper simply cannot perform. It’s the culmination of years of transfer policy chaos.

The other issue, of course, is the ludicrous prices we have been paying for those players. And why is that? Simply because clubs like Leicester no longer need to sell to survive. Rich owners have come in and, when United come calling, desperate for a new centre half, right back and so on, the world knows how desperate we are and the selling club holds out for an exorbitant fee. Harry Maguire is the classic example - at £80m we paid AT LEAST £40m too much.

I agree with everything you say. Get the managerial appointment sorted ASAP, hit the reset button and start from scratch. The club should have done it years ago. And I’m afraid now it’s going to take several more years before the club are remotely competitive again.
		
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This may well be a major part of the problem, rather than the players we bring in.

Going back to the good years, if a player wasn't good enough they'd be moved on pretty rapidly. Even if a player WAS good enough, they'd be moved on rapidly if they were starting to cause any issues within the dressing room. So, the other players at the club knew 100% they had to be absolutely on it all the time, and work their hardest. If they didn't, they'd get an absolute bollocking, and if they continued, they got booted out.

Today, we have kept hold of deadwood for years and years. We have allowed talented players to stay, despite the fact their effort levels are ridiculously low, and are clearly toxic in the dressing room, especially with all their public comments against the club / manager. It means heads naturally drop, and there is much less incentive to put the hard graft in, knowing you position at the club is pretty safe. I'm sure Marcus Rashford feels extremely comfortable that the club will not only keep him as long as they can, but will give him a pay rise in his next contract. Regardless of form, he has already shown his potential at an early age, he was part of the youth set up and he did all that charity work. He has built up a huge amount of brownie points.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Massive news: Roman Abramovich sanctioned. All UK assets frozen. Chelsea can still operate under a special licence but sale now on hold. Club will not be allowed to sell any more tickets - only season ticket holders can go to games for the foreseeable future

Taken from Twitter and reported on Sky News. Been added to UK sanction list.

Not before time 👍
		
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Official - https://news.sky.com/story/chelsea-...-amid-crackdown-on-russian-oligarchs-12562148

That scuppers the sale. What does it do for transfers?


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Massive news: Roman Abramovich sanctioned. All UK assets frozen. Chelsea can still operate under a special licence but sale now on hold. Club will not be allowed to sell any more tickets - only season ticket holders can go to games for the foreseeable future

Taken from Twitter and reported on Sky News. Been added to UK sanction list.

Not before time 👍
		
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Will they still be able to sell away tickets?


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Be like City with the empty seats 😁
		
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Nah, they'll just let them in for free!


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## Swango1980 (Mar 10, 2022)

Having watched the PSG game last night, I also noted that Messi was pretty much missing in action last night. I didn't watch the first game, but I believe the same was true then, including him missing a penalty.

In my experience, had this been Ronaldo instead of Messi, there would have been a frenzy of people on social media slating Ronaldo (mainly Man Utd haters and Barcelona fans no doubt). I fully expect we will see this when United inevitably get knocked out of the Champions League.


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## JamesR (Mar 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Having watched the PSG game last night, I also noted that Messi was pretty much missing in action last night. I didn't watch the first game, but I believe the same was true then, including him missing a penalty.

In my experience, had this been Ronaldo instead of Messi, there would have been a frenzy of people on social media slating Ronaldo (mainly Man Utd haters and Barcelona fans no doubt). I fully expect we will see this when United inevitably get knocked out of the Champions League.
		
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There's loads of anti-Messi stuff on twitter


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Having watched the PSG game last night, I also noted that Messi was pretty much missing in action last night. I didn't watch the first game, but I believe the same was true then, including him missing a penalty.

In my experience, had this been Ronaldo instead of Messi, there would have been a frenzy of people on social media slating Ronaldo (mainly Man Utd haters and Barcelona fans no doubt). I fully expect we will see this when United inevitably get knocked out of the Champions League.
		
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You've got to assume the French Media are having a field day - but it is all quiet here!

Honestly hes not the player these days that he was.

But - I bet he still gets the next Ballon D'or


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

Abramovich sanctioned now.


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## greenone (Mar 10, 2022)

Messi will be the top 3 for the ballon d'Or for the next 200 years


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Abramovich sanctioned now.
		
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Too slow. See #24434


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## Swango1980 (Mar 10, 2022)

Just in case anybody missed it, Abramovich has been sanctioned


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Too slow. See #24434
		
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Yea missed that’s probably because so few commented on it  , just a pity they were allowed special compensation to carry on playing. 😉

Will the fans stop singing his name will the apologists have a different view? 

Will they take the banner down😂

Unlikely classless club and fans


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Yea missed that’s probably because so few commented on it  , just a pity they were allowed special compensation to carry on playing. 😉

Will the fans stop singing his name will the apologists have a different view? 

Will they take the banner down😂

Unlikely classless club and fans
		
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Well done. You can wind your neck back in now


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 10, 2022)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...h-in-seville-in-between-europa-league-matches


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501856396081520643
I guess it will never go away


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## Dando (Mar 10, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Well done. You can wind your neck back in now
		
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you've got love tarring all fans with the same brush


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## DanFST (Mar 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...h-in-seville-in-between-europa-league-matches


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501856396081520643
I guess it will never go away
		
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From someone I trust who was there. The Frankfurt fans were followed by police then pulled out weapons. They just defended the pub. After the police rounded up the germans, the pub was back to normal.


Matches an interview with the owner of the pub. "They were fantastic no trouble at all. All they did was defend themselves. It was the German fans who attacked them the English were just in here singing having a drink, having a good time. They were fantastic I hope they come back today and spend lots more money."


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

Dando said:



			you've got love tarring all fans with the same brush
		
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It’s just my view and everyone is entitled to that. 

Every fan that goes through a turnstile at Stamford Bridge endorses the corruption of their club

Not everyone will agree and that’s fine with me.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			It’s just my view and everyone is entitled to that.

Every fan that goes through a turnstile at Stamford Bridge endorses the corruption of their club

Not everyone will agree and that’s fine with me.
		
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And the racist chanting by Spurs fans is ok?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			It’s just my view and everyone is entitled to that.

Every fan that goes through a turnstile at Stamford Bridge endorses the corruption of their club

Not everyone will agree and that’s fine with me.
		
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Sorry that’s not right , you can’t just put a blanket like that , there will be many fans who just want to watch their team play football and not get involved in the politics 

I suspect if you look through Joe Lewis history it won’t all be rosey , and of course spurs had their issues when building the stadium


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			It’s just my view and everyone is entitled to that.

Every fan that goes through a turnstile at Stamford Bridge endorses the corruption of their club

Not everyone will agree and that’s fine with me.
		
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I cant say I agree.

Whilst there are some horrible Chelsea fans (theres horrible fans at every club too) - the fans do not choose who becomes their clubs owner.

Chelsea have enjoyed incredible success due to RA's ownership, as a fan, you cant not be grateful of that or stop following your team because the owner is seen as corrupt. 

If Villa were purchased by the Saudi PIF fund for example, I'd still be there every week singing songs - because I love and support the club. You cant ever change the club you support, its impossible, so you're stuck! 

Owners come and go, fans are for life.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Having watched the PSG game last night, I also noted that Messi was pretty much missing in action last night. I didn't watch the first game, but I believe the same was true then, including him missing a penalty.

In my experience, had this been Ronaldo instead of Messi, there would have been a frenzy of people on social media slating Ronaldo (mainly Man Utd haters and Barcelona fans no doubt). I fully expect we will see this when United inevitably get knocked out of the Champions League.
		
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I think the main difference being it would be a miracle if Utd did qualify. Where as PSG were cruising and from the game I saw Messi didn’t do to bad. The last half an hour for PSG was woeful
For everyone. One thing that’s not said on here, was why did Poch not play Donnaruma. He is arguably the best goalie in the world.
Re Messi and Ronaldi. They are years past there best.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Be like City with the empty seats 😁
		
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This wont be their own choice though 🤭🤭


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## Stuart_C (Mar 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...h-in-seville-in-between-europa-league-matches


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501856396081520643
I guess it will never go away
		
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You're right Phil it wont go away, Especially in Europe.

Highlighting it every 5 minutes wont do nothing neither.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 10, 2022)

DanFST said:



			From someone I trust who was there. The Frankfurt fans were followed by police then pulled out weapons. They just defended the pub. After the police rounded up the germans, the pub was back to normal.


Matches an interview with the owner of the pub. "They were fantastic no trouble at all. All they did was defend themselves. It was the German fans who attacked them the English were just in here singing having a drink, having a good time. They were fantastic I hope they come back today and spend lots more money."
		
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Been there, seen it, done it. This happens more often than not. The exact same happened to us in Rome.


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			It’s just my view and everyone is entitled to that. 

Every fan that goes through a turnstile at Stamford Bridge endorses the corruption of their club

Not everyone will agree and that’s fine with me.
		
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What about the away fans. Are they endorsing the corruption at Chelsea too then? If so, doesn't that make them worse as they could easily boycott 1 game a season?


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## Fade and Die (Mar 10, 2022)

DanFST said:



			From someone I trust who was there. The Frankfurt fans were followed by police then pulled out weapons. They just defended the pub. After the police rounded up the germans, the pub was back to normal.


Matches an interview with the owner of the pub. "They were fantastic no trouble at all. All they did was defend themselves. It was the German fans who attacked them the English were just in here singing having a drink, having a good time. They were fantastic I hope they come back today and spend lots more money."
		
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I always feel that being lectured by Liverpool fans about fan behaviour is like being lectured on child care by the MCcann's.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Been there, seen it, done it. This happens more often than not. The exact same happened to us in Rome.
		
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Same in Rome in 1984, also.

It's happened to every English team in Europe over the last 20 odd years, with most time there being stabbings, as well.

If one team should have been banned from Europe over the last 20 years due to multiple occurrences it's Roma. Napoli after that.


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## Jensen (Mar 10, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And the racist chanting by Spurs fans is ok?
		
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It’s sung as a term of endearment


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## PieMan (Mar 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			It’s sung as a term of endearment
		
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Presumably when you call us "Chelsea Rent Boys" at matches too?!!!


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## pauljames87 (Mar 10, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			What about the away fans. Are they endorsing the corruption at Chelsea too then? If so, doesn't that make them worse as they could easily boycott 1 game a season?
		
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Can away tickets still be sold?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 10, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Presumably when you call us "Chelsea Rent Boys" at matches too?!!! 

Click to expand...

Everyone has to make a living no judgements


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Can away tickets still be sold?
		
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No they can't, I was really referring to the past 18 odd years


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



*No they can't*, I was really referring to the past 18 odd years
		
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Thats interesting - surely an advantage for Chelsea in some respects


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I cant say I agree.

Whilst there are some horrible Chelsea fans (theres horrible fans at every club too) - the fans do not choose who becomes their clubs owner.

Chelsea have enjoyed incredible success due to RA's ownership, as a fan, you cant not be grateful of that or stop following your team because the owner is seen as corrupt.

If Villa were purchased by the Saudi PIF fund for example, I'd still be there every week singing songs - because I love and support the club. You cant ever change the club you support, its impossible, so you're stuck!

Owners come and go, fans are for life.
		
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The only thing you said that I agree with is you can’t change who you support , everything else I disagree with and that’s good as we all are entitled to a opinion 👍


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Been there, seen it, done it. This happens more often than not. The exact same happened to us in Rome.
		
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I was also in Italy following England but it was the West Ham and Liverpool fans fighting amongst themselves 😂


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Thats interesting - surely an advantage for Chelsea in some respects 

Click to expand...

They can't sell any match tickets, but I'm not sure whether they can just give tickets away for free instead. I'm sure the Premier league wouldn't allow it. It will be ticket season holders for the rest of the season and no fans next season.  Just like covid. Not sure how the players are going to be paid. Quite a few questions to be answered and possible legal cases I think


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## pauljames87 (Mar 10, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			They can't sell any match tickets, but I'm not sure whether they can just give tickets away for free instead. I'm sure the Premier league wouldn't allow it. It will be ticket season holders for the rest of the season and no fans next season.  Just like covid. Not sure how the players are going to be paid. Quite a few questions to be answered and possible legal cases I think
		
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Considering 3 are on verge of pulling their 40 million a year sponsorship I doubt the players will be able to be paid


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## Swango1980 (Mar 10, 2022)

Interesting times for Chelsea. Cannot sell any more tickets, merchandise shop closed and unable to buy or sell players in the transfer market. The government may consider a special license to sell the club, provided Abramovich proves he would not benefit from the sale. I can imagine that might be tricky?

Could this be the absolute downfall of Chelsea?


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			They can't sell any match tickets, but I'm not sure whether they can just give tickets away for free instead. I'm sure the Premier league wouldn't allow it. It will be ticket season holders for the rest of the season and no fans next season.  Just like covid. Not sure how the players are going to be paid. Quite a few questions to be answered and possible legal cases I think
		
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Players can get paid via the TV money - probably already are - that part should self sustain without the RA money going in.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			The only thing you said that I agree with is you can’t change who you support , everything else I disagree with and that’s good as *we all are entitled to a opinion *👍
		
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Totally agree! Just good a juicy topic this!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 10, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I always feel that being lectured by Liverpool fans about fan behaviour is like being lectured on child care by the MCcann's.
		
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When were you being “lectured”


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Players can get paid via the TV money - probably already are - that part should self sustain without the RA money going in.
		
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That depends on whether they've already spent it on buying Lukaku!


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			That depends on whether they've already spent it on buying Lukaku!
		
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Theyll get another round of it at the end of the season though - depending on league position. 

Obviously I have no clue how the payments are made but I cant see them not having the capital to continue when a whole season was played behind closed doors with no financial support from fans.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Theyll get another round of it at the end of the season though - depending on league position.

Obviously I have no clue how the payments are made but I cant see them not having the capital to continue when a whole season was played behind closed doors with no financial support from fans.
		
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Apparently they will still receive broadcast money and prize money, but this will be frozen. I guess that makes sense. If the government are freezing his assets, it would be strange if his asset continued to receive its income and spend it as normal


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## larmen (Mar 10, 2022)

How does licensing work in no England?

As an example, Schalke have separated themselves from their sponsor Gasprom and to get a license for 2022/2023 they have to probe they are liquid to finance the whole season or face forced relegation. They don’t have much time, and companies willing to spend millions on sponsorship usually don’t do these deals within a fortnight either.

Does Chelsea face similar licensing obligations?


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Apparently they will still receive broadcast money and prize money, but this will be frozen. I guess that makes sense. If the government are freezing his assets, it would be strange if his asset continued to receive its income and spend it as normal
		
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The PFA wont let players go unpaid. I recall Simon Jordan on TalkSport when the Bury stuff was all going on saying players are "assured creditors" or something to that effect, meaning no matter what, they will be paid what they are owed. 

Overall though, I assume Chelsea will be sold or RA rides out the storm. If the war is over in 4 weeks this will all settle quite quickly - but who knows!


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## GB72 (Mar 10, 2022)

larmen said:



			How does licensing work in no England?

As an example, Schalke have separated themselves from their sponsor Gasprom and to get a license for 2022/2023 they have to probe they are liquid to finance the whole season or face forced relegation. They don’t have much time, and companies willing to spend millions on sponsorship usually don’t do these deals within a fortnight either.

Does Chelsea face similar licensing obligations?
		
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I am guessing that you need a licence to carry out any business in contravention of sanctions. The current licence just issues lets them pay players and staff and play football and not a lot else (aside from honour existing ticket sales). Looks like Chelsea want to expand the terms of that licence to allow them to carry on as normally as possible. We will see how this pans out as the football side will, I am sure, complain about the sanctions hitting a club so hard whereas others will be keen to ensure that it does not appear as if football clubs are given any preferential treatment as any business with Russian involvement would have been hit hard.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			The PFA wont let players go unpaid. I recall Simon Jordan on TalkSport when the Bury stuff was all going on saying players are "assured creditors" or something to that effect, meaning no matter what, they will be paid what they are owed.

Overall though, I assume Chelsea will be sold or RA rides out the storm. If the war is over in 4 weeks this will all settle quite quickly - but who knows!
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure they'd get paid. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the government allowed wages to be paid directly from any future broadcast money / prize money (although not sure how it works, but assuming that would be allowed for the benefit of the club). However, players won't be rushing to extend their deals or fight to get pay rises. Out of contract players will leave anyway. Players that contracts run our in 2022:


Danny Drinkwater (anyone remember him?) - Age 32
Cesar Azpilicueta - Age 32
Antonio Rudiger - Age 29
Baba Raham - Age 27
Emerson Palmieri - Age 27
Andreas Christensen - Age 25
Charly Musonda - Age 25
Jake Clarke-Salter - Age 22
Not sure how quickly a takeover can be done, or whether it would be extremely complicated. I wonder if transfers will be banned until that is done? And, when it is done, are Chelsea going to be big players in the transfer market like they used to be. Apologies to Chelsea fans, but in my opinion Chelsea are not a big club in the same way the likes of Utd, Liverpool, Madrid or Barcelona are. So, without a cash rich owner, is it a club that will still be able to attract the best players? Or, will it be no more special than Spurs, Arsenal or West Ham in terms of London clubs?

Interesting times. Before I even look at betting list for potential future owners, I am going to predict Mike Ashley is on the list.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm sure they'd get paid. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the government allowed wages to be paid directly from any future broadcast money / prize money (although not sure how it works, but assuming that would be allowed for the benefit of the club). However, players won't be rushing to extend their deals or fight to get pay rises. Out of contract players will leave anyway. Players that contracts run our in 2022:


Danny Drinkwater (anyone remember him?) - Age 32
Cesar Azpilicueta - Age 32
Antonio Rudiger - Age 29
Baba Raham - Age 27
Emerson Palmieri - Age 27
Andreas Christensen - Age 25
Charly Musonda - Age 25
Jake Clarke-Salter - Age 22
Not sure how quickly a takeover can be done, or whether it would be extremely complicated. I wonder if transfers will be banned until that is done? And, when it is done, are Chelsea going to be big players in the transfer market like they used to be. Apologies to Chelsea fans, but* in my opinion Chelsea are not a big club in the same way the likes of Utd, Liverpool, Madrid or Barcelona are*. So, without a cash rich owner, is it a club that will still be able to attract the best players? Or, will it be no more special than Spurs, Arsenal or West Ham in terms of London clubs?

Interesting times. Before I even look at betting list for potential future owners, I am going to predict Mike Ashley is on the list.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting take - mind if I ask why and where do you rank City? 

I assume Roman will still get to choose who its sold to. He loved the club and will want to see it succeed, cant see him selling to anyone who lets Chelsea rot. Could get Glazer style owners though who I believe take money from the club rather than the other way around.


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## fundy (Mar 10, 2022)

*Chelsea Football Club has been advised that its owner Roman Abramovich has been sanctioned by the UK Government.*
By virtue of his 100 per cent ownership of Chelsea FC plc and affiliated entities, Chelsea FC would normally be subject to the same sanctions regime as Mr Abramovich. However, the UK Government has issued a general licence that permits Chelsea FC to continue certain activities.

We will fulfil our men’s and women’s team fixtures today against Norwich and West Ham, respectively, and intend to engage in discussions with the UK Government regarding the scope of the licence. This will include seeking permission for the licence to be amended in order to allow the Club to operate as normal as possible. We will also be seeking guidance from the UK Government on the impact of these measures on the Chelsea Foundation and its important work in our communities.

The Club will update further when it is appropriate to do so.


Translates as the lawyers have been instructed and you'll be hearing from them


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## Swango1980 (Mar 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Interesting take - mind if I ask why and where do you rank City?

I assume Roman will still get to choose who its sold to. He loved the club and will want to see it succeed, cant see him selling to anyone who lets Chelsea rot. Could get Glazer style owners though who I believe take money from the club rather than the other way around.
		
Click to expand...

City are amazing at the moment, probably the best team in the world. However, if they lost their owners and the money that goes with it, would they be able to have the same buying power? If not, would their club have the same status as a Liverpool or Man Utd? Maybe for a year or 2, but I doubt it longer term. Just a guess though. The additional factor with Chelsea at the moment is not just Abramovich leaving, but the fact he can't even profit from it, and many of sanctions that will be directly impacting upon Chelsea while this is sorted out. Will the new owner be able to get it on the cheap? Will Abramovich refuse to sell, but then that would mean sanctions would still impact the club while that is the case?


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## Imurg (Mar 10, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501932318092500999


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## Jensen (Mar 10, 2022)

Sky News quoted Chelsea made a £150 million pound loss, according to the latest figures. The club have been clearly bankrolled by Abramovich. Just goes to show the problems of an “Abramovich business model”
These look like VERY dire times for Chelsea


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## Jensen (Mar 10, 2022)

Imurg said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501932318092500999

Click to expand...

The sun is shining bright on White Hart Lane in comparison 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Sky News quoted Chelsea made a £150 million pound loss, according to the latest figures. The club have been clearly bankrolled by Abramovich. Just goes to show the problems of an “Abramovich business model”
These look like VERY dire times for Chelsea
		
Click to expand...

A lot of that loss is due to the Covid - Spurs also made a loss and also took out some government loans as well , worth remembering the debt Spurs have is the biggest in the Prem


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Chelsea arriving at Carrow Road


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## Jensen (Mar 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A lot of that loss is due to the Covid - Spurs also made a loss and also took out some government loans as well , worth remembering the debt Spurs have is the biggest in the Prem
		
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It may well be, but look at the tangible asset that has been created.

Tangible - something that can been seen and kicked. 
(As per my economics class at school)


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			It’s sung as a term of endearment
		
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How can using a racist term about a person be a "term of endearment"?
Oh the irony......


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## hairball_89 (Mar 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			It’s sung as a term of endearment
		
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it is not endearing. it is racist.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			City are amazing at the moment, probably the best team in the world. However, if they lost their owners and the money that goes with it, would they be able to have the same buying power? If not, would their club have the same status as a Liverpool or Man Utd? Maybe for a year or 2, but I doubt it longer term. Just a guess though. The additional factor with Chelsea at the moment is not just Abramovich leaving, but the fact he can't even profit from it, and many of sanctions that will be directly impacting upon Chelsea while this is sorted out. Will the new owner be able to get it on the cheap? Will Abramovich refuse to sell, but then that would mean sanctions would still impact the club while that is the case?
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough, respect your opinion. Its quite exciting to see how this develops from an outside point of view - wouldnt enjoy being a fan right now. 

I think Chelsea have more chance than City at being able to sustain under different owners (current situation aside) - but probably due to the fact they are now multiple CL winners. I imagine as a billionaire, that makes the club more desireable than one which doesnt? That and just sheer snobbery of the fact they're the biggest club in London.


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## PieMan (Mar 10, 2022)

Ah, if only Spurs fans had something to celebrate on the pitch rather than off it!!

Looking forward to the 'Abramovich has been sanctioned' DVD and open top bus parade!!!


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## Bdill93 (Mar 10, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/gossip

*"Villa* may also target England midfielder Kalvin Phillips if *Leeds* are relegated to the Championship."

@BiMGuy

We're coming for him!!


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## Jensen (Mar 10, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Ah, if only Spurs fans had something to celebrate on the pitch rather than off it!!

Looking forward to the 'Abramovich has been sanctioned' DVD and open top bus parade!!! 

Click to expand...

I think I’d have more concerns as to the future of my own club…..🤔


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			The sun is shining bright on White Hart Lane in comparison 😁
		
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Yes, but not on the team that plays there


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## BiMGuy (Mar 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/gossip

*"Villa* may also target England midfielder Kalvin Phillips if *Leeds* are relegated to the Championship."

@BiMGuy

We're coming for him!!



Click to expand...

My previous comments about big clubs is also applicable here 👍🏻


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Fair enough, respect your opinion. Its quite exciting to see how this develops from an outside point of view - wouldnt enjoy being a fan right now.

I think Chelsea have more chance than City at being able to sustain under different owners (current situation aside) - but probably due to the fact they are now multiple CL winners. I imagine as a billionaire, that makes the club more desireable than one which doesnt? That and just sheer snobbery of the fact they're the biggest club in London.
		
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Forest won the champs league twice but there not chased by billionaires. The situation for Chelsea is indeed grave. And It is only in its infancy. 
Also Chelsea were/ are owned by one person. City are not.


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## fundy (Mar 10, 2022)

Seems Three have suspended their sponsorship of Chelsea and asked for the name to be removed from their shirts


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## PieMan (Mar 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I think I’d have more concerns as to the future of my own club…..🤔
		
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No concerns at all thanks.


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## Orikoru (Mar 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Seems Three have suspended their sponsorship of Chelsea and asked for the name to be removed from their shirts
		
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Are they under the belief that Chelsea is actually _in_ Russia??


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Are they under the belief that Chelsea is actually _in_ Russia??
		
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I think there under the belief that the piggy bank is/ was.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

[QUOTE

Could this be the absolute downfall of Chelsea?[/QUOTE]

Oh I hope so 😂😂

See he managed to spirt his yacht away last night before it was impounded.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Are they under the belief that Chelsea is actually _in_ Russia??
		
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Doesn't matter where they are. The whole point of sponsoring a team is to promote your brand. If they feel promoting their branded would be damaged simply by association with Abramovich now he has been sanctioned, they may feel justified to pull out of the deal. They may also predict darker times ahead for the club itself, and it is worth getting out asap


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think there under the belief that the piggy bank is/ was.
		
Click to expand...

On the flip side for you Tash everybody will want to buy your oil now,  so you will be able to buy even more trophys 👍


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## fundy (Mar 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Are they under the belief that Chelsea is actually _in_ Russia??
		
Click to expand...


no i expect theyd rather try and take some free good publicity whilst saving themselves the sponsorship costs for a now non-commercial operation


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 10, 2022)

Personally I think Chelsea should face automatic relegation as punishment. This view has nothing to do with Everton needing all the help we can get to stay up


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			On the flip side for you Tash everybody will want to buy your oil now,  so you will be able to buy even more trophys 👍
		
Click to expand...

Sat on top of the roller coaster at the moment. Been at the bottom before and am under no illusions one day Al be back there. But at the moment I and neutrals are seeing football played in sky blue shirt that i never thought I would see. Well “ not in my lifetime”. For the educated, that was a phrase used by Sir Fergie re City. Even he should of realised the power of football changes. However you dress it up. City, Liverpool and Chelsea are at the top. 10 years ago different , 10 years before different etc etc.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Personally I think Chelsea should face automatic relegation as punishment. This view has nothing to do with Everton needing all the help we can get to stay up 

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			On the flip side for you Tash everybody will want to buy your oil now,  so you will be able to buy even more trophys 👍
		
Click to expand...

The sceptic in me believes that they have promised to produce more oil to make it cheaper for me to go to the games. For every other fan it’s just a Brucie bonus they have helped to get cheaper diesel 😳😁


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Oh I hope so 😂😂
		
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It's really sad when somebody takes such relish in the misfortune of others, and says a lot about their small mindedness


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Forest won the champs league twice but there not chased by billionaires. The situation for Chelsea is indeed grave. And It is only in its infancy.
Also Chelsea were/ are owned by one person. *City are not*.
		
Click to expand...

True - they are owned by a state that is currently waging a war against Yemen and been plenty of reports of war crimes against UAE and Saudi


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## PieMan (Mar 10, 2022)

Let's face it, any club that is owned by multi millionaires or billionaires are not exactly going to be all above board in their business dealings and how they acquired their wealth.

Even the used car salesmen owners/Chairmen of the 70s and 80s weren't squeaky clean!!!


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## fundy (Mar 10, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Let's face it, any club that is owned by multi millionaires or billionaires are not exactly going to be all above board in their business dealings and how they acquired their wealth.

Even the used car salesmen owners/Chairmen of the 70s and 80s weren't squeaky clean!!! 

Click to expand...


yeah but your owner is worse than our owner playground styleee lol

(unless your tashy obviously  )


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:






			Could this be the absolute downfall of Chelsea?
		
Click to expand...

Oh I hope so 😂😂

See he managed to spirt his yacht away last night before it was impounded.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.mintpressnews.com/dark-...parallel-state-in-argentina-patagonia/256068/

What do you think of your owners issues in regards Argentina?


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## fundy (Mar 10, 2022)

good first half for West ham that, theyd bite the arm off to come home with a 0-0


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## PieMan (Mar 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			yeah but your owner is worse than our owner playground styleee lol

(unless your tashy obviously  )
		
Click to expand...


I'm going to get my dad onto your dad!!! 

Oh hold on, my dad's dead


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## Stuart_C (Mar 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Personally I think Chelsea should face automatic relegation as punishment. This view has nothing to do with Everton needing all the help we can get to stay up 

Click to expand...

I think they should send them down along side the bottom 3🤭


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## BiMGuy (Mar 10, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Let's face it, any club that is owned by multi millionaires or billionaires are not exactly going to be all above board in their business dealings and how they acquired their wealth.

Even the used car salesmen owners/Chairmen of the 70s and 80s weren't squeaky clean!!! 

Click to expand...

Riiiight. So everyone who has made themselves wealthy is bent?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 10, 2022)

Unfortunately the Governmemts decision to seize all assets is concerning because to do this they must have enough evidence to suggest  RA is a close associate of Putin.

Assuming they have, i wonder what else  theyve got on him or missed since he's been here.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			It's really sad when somebody takes such relish in the misfortune of others, and says a lot about their small mindedness
		
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Misfortune of others now that’s interesting, the way I see it is that it’s the Russian people that are have have lost out because of one of their own countryman has taken billions out of their country and spent it on a football club in a foreign land. 


I have no sympathy for Chelsea FC or their fans they are not the misfortune in my opinion. 

Believe it or not I would not like to see the demise of Chelsea FC but I hope the club comes out of this a better managed club in the future.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 10, 2022)

This is Matthew Syed take on it 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501912261232939010


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.mintpressnews.com/dark-...parallel-state-in-argentina-patagonia/256068/

What do you think of your owners issues in regards Argentina?
		
Click to expand...

I did wonder when you would dig up some dirt on Spurs😂

That’s a interesting read and I’ve never heard of that news outlet. 

I’ll look more into it, but it sounds as corrupt as Abramovich if true. 

That would certainly put me off supporting the club, as I say if it’s true and knowing about the money men it wouldn’t surprise me if it was.


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## fundy (Mar 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is Matthew Syed take on it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501912261232939010

Click to expand...


hes written an article on the times site today too

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...been-enabling-a-tyrant-and-dictator-tq7bbtqst


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## fundy (Mar 10, 2022)

think west ham will take 1-0 still in the tie and could have been worse, if they get bowen and rice fully fit will fancy theyve still every chance, esp with no away goals rule


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## pauljames87 (Mar 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			think west ham will take 1-0 still in the tie and could have been worse, if they get bowen and rice fully fit will fancy theyve still every chance, esp with no away goals rule
		
Click to expand...

Rice was fit for this one

We played well. Missed a free header well straight at keeper 

Was a good game


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Believe it or not I would not like to see the demise of Chelsea FC but I hope the club comes out of this a better managed club in the future.
		
Click to expand...

That's not what you said in your previous posts though is it? And if you really believed that surely you would be in favour of a quick sale to someone like Nick Candy to enable that to happen.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I did wonder when you would dig up some dirt on Spurs😂

That’s a interesting read and I’ve never heard of that news outlet.

I’ll look more into it, but it sounds as corrupt as Abramovich if true.

That would certainly put me off supporting the club, as I say if it’s true and knowing about the money men it wouldn’t surprise me if it was.
		
Click to expand...

You can prob dig up dirt on multiple club owners 

Whilst there will no doubt be skeletons in Abramovich closet and he gained Wealth through ill means - I would have to say he doesn’t appear to support the actions going on in Ukraine and he does have an attachment to the club and that’s why the fans will be disappointed about it all 

imo the owners of City and Newcastle will always be the ones with zero morals - sport washing , human rights and of course the way with Yemen


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is Matthew Syed take on it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501912261232939010

Click to expand...

That’s exactly the way I think but put more succinctly than I ever could.


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## fundy (Mar 10, 2022)

if only the off field stuff was easy as Norwich away.............


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## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			That's not what you said in your previous posts though is it? And if you really believed that surely you would be in favour of a quick sale to someone like Nick Candy to enable that to happen.
		
Click to expand...

There was 2 smileys after that quote , it was perhaps a bit crass, i don’t think a quick sale and all is forgotten would seem right to me.


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## PieMan (Mar 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Riiiight. So everyone who has made themselves wealthy is bent?
		
Click to expand...

Apparently only Chelsea's benefactor clearly. Is that better for you?


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## PieMan (Mar 10, 2022)

Anyway the team representing a club that shortly won't exist is not doing too badly at the moment!


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			i don’t think a quick sale and all is forgotten would seem right to me.
		
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It would be a step in the "right direction" though.


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## greenone (Mar 10, 2022)

If the Chelsea club shop is closed, where are they going to source all those plastic flags? 😱


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I did wonder when you would dig up some dirt on Spurs😂

That’s a interesting read and I’ve never heard of that news outlet.

I’ll look more into it, but it sounds as corrupt as Abramovich if true.

That would certainly put me off supporting the club, as I say if it’s true and knowing about the money men it wouldn’t surprise me if it was.
		
Click to expand...

A lot of these come from very random sources rather than the more mainstream. Sure there will be a link for every club in the PL waiting to be played


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## fundy (Mar 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			A lot of these come from very random sources rather than the more mainstream. Sure there will be a link for every club in the PL waiting to be played
		
Click to expand...


probably because almost none of the prem league clubs are whiter than white. why does it matter if its msm or not?


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 10, 2022)

As Chelsea face up to a trophyless future with no money to spend on transfers, football fans begin to wonder how long government sanctions have been in place at Tottenham. 😮😂😂


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## greenone (Mar 10, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			As Chelsea face up to a trophyless future with no money to spend on transfers, football fans begin to wonder how long government sanctions have been in place at Tottenham. 😮😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Your about 5 hours late with that one.


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Riiiight. So everyone who has made themselves wealthy is bent?
		
Click to expand...

Think you would be hard pressed to find a billionaire who hasn't shafted people and/or broken the law in one way or another. They're just able to afford very good lawyers.


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 10, 2022)

greenone said:



			If the Chelsea club shop is closed, where are they going to source all those plastic flags? 😱
		
Click to expand...

And you're about 15 years late with that one!


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## Dando (Mar 10, 2022)

greenone said:



			Your about 5 hours late with that one.
		
Click to expand...

At his age that was pretty quick


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 10, 2022)

greenone said:



			Your about 5 hours late with that one.
		
Click to expand...

Oh well, it’s impossible to read each post, soz 👍


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## Cherry13 (Mar 10, 2022)

Ralph is not going to be happy with those two goals from Newcastle.  2 players signed in Jan window. 😂


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

PieMan said:




I'm going to get my dad onto your dad!!! 

Oh hold on, my dad's dead 

Click to expand...

You can borrow mine. He’s a Citeh fan 😁
You would have to wake him up first though 😁


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## PieMan (Mar 10, 2022)

VAR - shocking. Clear handball - no need to call ref over and waste more time.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

At this rate Newcastle will be finishing in the top half of the table.


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## fundy (Mar 10, 2022)

Callum Chambers take a bow


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 10, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			Ralph is not going to be happy with those two goals from Newcastle.  2 players signed in Jan window. 😂
		
Click to expand...

Both good goals, how cheeky was the second 😄


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## Cherry13 (Mar 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Both good goals, how cheeky was the second 😄
		
Click to expand...

He looks a really gifted technical player. Something we’ve lacked for a while.  
10 points clear, you’d hope it’s enough to see us safe from here in. Another two wins should just about confirm it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 10, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			He looks a really gifted technical player. Something we’ve lacked for a while. 
10 points clear, you’d hope it’s enough to see us safe from here in. Another two wins should just about confirm it.
		
Click to expand...

Pressure is off now so I think the points will come comfortably. You can see the difference in the team. You can also see how the tension is eating up the teams in the bottom 5 or 6 and what that pressure does.

You can start thinking about all of the fun signings you will make in the summer now 👍


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Pressure is off now so I think the points will come comfortably. You can see the difference in the team. You can also see how the tension is eating up the teams in the bottom 5 or 6 and what that pressure does.

You can start thinking about all of the fun signings you will make in the summer now 👍
		
Click to expand...

Mason Mount would be a good signing 😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Mason Mount would be a good signing 😉
		
Click to expand...

There could be a few others available as well 😄. Mount would certainly be welcome at most clubs.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

I think City are desperate for a goal scoring midfielder 😂


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## richart (Mar 10, 2022)

Hopefully Chelsea will be forced to take Danny Drinkwater back.


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## Crazyface (Mar 10, 2022)

Bit of a laugh at work today as we pondered on United fall from grace. What with Newcastle having pots of dosh and Wolves, I'm told, aren't short of a bob or two, United will have so much competition for players that will be available, and who'd want to go there anyway once Ponchetto gets the job, he's won nowt you know even with untold riches to spend and has spent. They'll be lucky to win a trophy in the next ten years, unless they get relegated and with the Championship. LOL LOL LOL 
It's great to watch init?


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			A lot of these come from very random sources rather than the more mainstream. Sure there will be a link for every club in the PL waiting to be played
		
Click to expand...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...of-spurs-planned-new-stadium-9881105.html?amp

Mainstream enough for you?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 10, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			He looks a really gifted technical player. Something we’ve lacked for a while. 
10 points clear, you’d hope it’s enough to see us safe from here in. Another two wins should just about confirm it.
		
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Just hope its 3pts next week against Everton👍


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## Tashyboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...of-spurs-planned-new-stadium-9881105.html?amp

Mainstream enough for you?
		
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I was married on the day of the Bradford fire disaster. It was horrendous. There’s suspicions behind that. it turns in my stomach when I see that on my anniversary 😥
Always thoughts to the 56 victims
And families of those that suffered  😥


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## BiMGuy (Mar 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I was married on the day of the Bradford fire disaster. It was horrendous. There’s suspicions behind that. it turns in my stomach when I see that on my anniversary 😥
Always thoughts to the 56 victims
And families of those that suffered  😥
		
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I have family members with scars from the skin grafts they needed from being at that game. 

I could see the smoke from my house.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 11, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			My previous comments about big clubs is also applicable here 👍🏻
		
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Think you’ve been taught a lesson for that comment 😂


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## BiMGuy (Mar 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Think you’ve been taught a lesson for that comment 😂
		
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🤦‍♂️


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## Bdill93 (Mar 11, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

CALLUM CHAMBERSSSSSS


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 11, 2022)




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## Dando (Mar 11, 2022)

BREAKING: Arsene Wenger has made a £40 million + £1 bid to buy Chelsea football club.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 11, 2022)

Dando said:



			BREAKING: Arsene Wenger has made a £40 million + £1 bid to buy Chelsea football club.
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure he saw it?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 12, 2022)

Just clocked Mike Dean is the ref for today🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️ i enjoyed it when he couldnt ref our games.  I wonder how many 50/50 decisions will go our way🤔


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## Tashyboy (Mar 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Just clocked Mike Dean is the ref for today🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️ i enjoyed it when he couldnt ref our games.  I wonder how many 50/50 decisions will go our way🤔
		
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About 50% 😁


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## Stuart_C (Mar 12, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			About 50% 😁
		
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That many.....i think i'd take that 👍

How many do city get from Manchester city refs.....er i mean Manchester based refs? 🤭😉


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)




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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Just clocked Mike Dean is the ref for today🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️ i enjoyed it when he couldnt ref our games.  *I wonder how many 50/50 decisions will go our way*🤔
		
Click to expand...








Ooh, I can taste it already.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 12, 2022)

Slime said:









Ooh, I can taste it already.  

Click to expand...

Moi?? Pas moi mon ami 😉

 You've obviously missed my point 🤷🏼


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## Tashyboy (Mar 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			That many.....i think i'd take that 👍

How many do city get from Manchester city refs.....er i mean Manchester based refs? 🤭😉
		
Click to expand...

I think most of the refs have pictures of Ronaldo, Rooney and Fred on there bedroom walls so not that many. 😁


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Sanchez a lucky boy not to see red there


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 12, 2022)

How is that not worth a second look ? Surely it’s a red ? You can’t do that


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## Dando (Mar 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sanchez a lucky boy not to see red there
		
Click to expand...

How is that not red?


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How is that not worth a second look ? Surely it’s a red ? You can’t do that
		
Click to expand...

shouldnt even need a second look, should just be telling Dean to correct his decision to a red. any other player on the pitch bar the keeper and its def a red


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2022)

When Chelsea are sold, where does the money go? They say Abramovich can not benefit from the sale but what does that mean? Who gets it, does it get held in escrow until this is all over? I can't find the answer to this.


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## Dando (Mar 12, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When Chelsea are sold, where does the money go? They say Abramovich can not benefit from the sale but what does that mean? Who gets it, does it get held in escrow until this is all over? I can't find the answer to this.
		
Click to expand...

He said a “trust” will distribute the net proceed to the war victims.

The “trust” will be run his cronies who will take millions in “fees” so very little will go to the Russian victims as hell give zero to the Ukrainian victims


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Dando said:



			He said a “trust” will distribute the net proceed to the war victims.

The “trust” will be run his cronies who will take millions in “fees” so very little will go to the Russian victims as hell give zero to the Ukrainian victims
		
Click to expand...


not sure he gets to decide where it goes having been sanctioned does he


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sanchez a lucky boy not to see red there
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502632581698920448
No idea how they decided that’s not worthy of a second look


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			not sure he gets to decide where it goes having been sanctioned does he
		
Click to expand...

I think that is my question. Where does it go?

Heck of a WWE move by the Brighton keeper


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think that is my question. Where does it go?

Heck of a WWE move by the Brighton keeper 

Click to expand...


I assume the funds are frozen by the government, i guess then get treated as proceeds of crime along with all his assets if hes found guilty


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502632581698920448
No idea how they decided that’s not worthy of a second look
		
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that was the Liverpool goal? If so, then if he'd headed the ball wide it would've almost definitely been a penalty and a red card. The officials have made their decision based on the ball ending up in the net rather than the challenge itself. Very poor decision. Should've been a goal and a red card.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502632581698920448
No idea how they decided that’s not worthy of a second look
		
Click to expand...

Why on Earth are you surprised?  Very similar to the one below when Antony Taylor awarded the free kick to the Spurs keeper;






VAR had an off day and actually managed to reverse it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 12, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Why on Earth are you surprised?  Very similar to the one below when Antony Taylor awarded the free kick to the Spurs keeper;






VAR had an off day and actually managed to reverse it.
		
Click to expand...

So at least Var stepped in to correct the decision 

VAR did nothing with the Diaz one 

Stuart Atwell once again looked at that and thought - yeah that’s all good


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## adam6177 (Mar 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502632581698920448
No idea how they decided that’s not worthy of a second look
		
Click to expand...

Every week I could copy/paste my comments..... The referees in this league are incompetent. At best.


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Moi?? Pas moi mon ami 😉

You've obviously missed my point 🤷🏼
		
Click to expand...

You didn't miss mine.


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)




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## Billysboots (Mar 12, 2022)

Wow. That’s some strike.


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

What a stupid rule.


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)




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## Stuart_C (Mar 12, 2022)

I'm psychic 😉


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

any chance of a picture of a donkey screaming GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


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## Captainron (Mar 12, 2022)

McGuire is garbage


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 12, 2022)




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## Captainron (Mar 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 41772

Click to expand...

The Harry Kane donkey adoption is also going great guns.


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			any chance of a picture of a donkey screaming GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 

Click to expand...

Sorry, just a horse and a zebra.


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			Sorry, just a horse and a zebra.
		
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thatll do  can use some poetic license haha


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## Stuart_C (Mar 12, 2022)

Oh dear.


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

Captainron said:



			McGuire is garbage
		
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Not a lot he could have done about that, to be fair, but let the haters keep on hating.


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

He's simply the greatest.


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## Captainron (Mar 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not a lot he could have done about that, to be fair, but let the haters keep on hating. 

Click to expand...

He’s a defensive liability. Far too error prone and he’s slower than Roddy to a bar.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not a lot he could have done about that, to be fair, but let the haters keep on hating. 

Click to expand...

To be fair he is a decent mid table CB at best - how a club paid £80mil plus for him is criminal , the most expensive defender ever 😂😂😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 12, 2022)

Loved that summary "got up like a non-league centre back". Some header that. Can United actually game manage the situation from here?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 12, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Loved that summary "got up like a non-league centre back". Some header that. Can United actually game manage the situation from here?
		
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They can if they sub Maguire 😉


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## Billysboots (Mar 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			To be fair he is a decent mid table CB at best - how a club paid £80mil plus for him is criminal , the most expensive defender ever 😂😂😂
		
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United were mugged, Phil. As I have said, Leicester didn’t need to sell, they knew United were desperate for a centre half, so they basically said “If you want him, that’s our price”, and steadfastly stuck to it.

We should have looked elsewhere.


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			To be fair he is a decent mid table CB at best - *how a club paid £80mil plus for him is criminal* , *the most expensive defender ever* 😂😂😂
		
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But that's not the players fault.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			United were mugged, Phil. As I have said, Leicester didn’t need to sell, they knew United were desperate for a centre half, so they basically said “If you want him, that’s our price”, and steadfastly stuck to it.

We should have looked elsewhere.
		
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At the time though how many viable alternatives were there and given the mess United were in post Fergie how many players really fancied coming to Old Trafford?


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			At the time though how many viable alternatives were there and given the mess United were in post Fergie how many players really fancied coming to Old Trafford?
		
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lol really? how many players wanted to go to United and be paid over 100k a week? they had their pick pretty much and choose Maguire then stuck to it


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## Billysboots (Mar 12, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			At the time though how many viable alternatives were there and given the mess United were in post Fergie how many players really fancied coming to Old Trafford?
		
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I can’t recall who was available at that time, but Maguire is, and was when he was bought, pretty average. For whatever reason United decided he was their man, and they were willing to pay the ludicrous transfer fee.


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## BrianM (Mar 12, 2022)

Cristiano Ronaldo, just a phenomenal player, even at 37.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 12, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Cristiano Ronaldo, just a phenomenal player, even at 37.
		
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He's been the hide and seek champion for most of this season at yernited. A hatrick only papers over the cracks.


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Cristiano Ronaldo, just a phenomenal player, even at 37.
		
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There's just nobody better, and I don't think there ever has been.


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			There's just nobody better, and I don't think there ever has been.
		
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do you really think the current version is the best player in the world?


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			do you really think the current version is the best player in the world?
		
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Certainly the best 37yr old !!


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			Certainly the best 37yr old !!
		
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Ill take that as a no then


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ill take that as a no then 

Click to expand...

He was the greatest of all time this evening!
Obviously not the worlds No.1 now, but he's still a hell of a player.


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## BrianM (Mar 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			do you really think the current version is the best player in the world?
		
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Not for me, but to still have that desire and drive is an amazing attitude to have, a lot of players at Man Utd and elsewhere could and should take inspiration from a player like that.


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## 2blue (Mar 12, 2022)

Captainron said:



			He’s a defensive liability. Far too error prone and he’s slower than Roddy to a bar.
		
Click to expand...

Now that is totally unfair as you'd be in the Bar whilst he's still sorting things in the car park..... keeping you safe.


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			He was the greatest of all time this evening!
Obviously not the worlds No.1 now, but he's still a hell of a player.
		
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so there is somebody better 

no doubt hes in the best 2 or 3 players of all time (not gonna argue where in the ranking) and some effort tonight

some very confused man u fans elsewhere tonight who have been blaming him for this season and dont know what to think now


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Not for me, but to still have that desire and drive is an amazing attitude to have, a lot of players at Man Utd and elsewhere could and should take inspiration from a player like that.
		
Click to expand...

this is it in a nutshell for me


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## Papas1982 (Mar 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			But that's not the players fault.
		
Click to expand...

You're right. It's not.

But after his clownlike celebrations when scoring for England. The guy deserves all the flack he gets.


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## Captainron (Mar 12, 2022)

2blue said:



			Now that is totally unfair as you'd be in the Bar whilst he's still sorting things in the car park..... keeping you safe. 

Click to expand...

Why the heck would anyone be in the car park when you could be in the bar? Are you telling me that he’s stupid too?


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Why the heck would anyone be in the car park when you could be in the bar? Are you telling me that he’s stupid too?
		
Click to expand...


changing theirs shoes?


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## Captainron (Mar 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			changing theirs shoes? 

Click to expand...

Bet he would wear black socks as well.


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## Billysboots (Mar 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			so there is somebody better 

no doubt hes in the best 2 or 3 players of all time (not gonna argue where in the ranking) and some effort tonight

some very confused man u fans elsewhere tonight who have been blaming him for this season and dont know what to think now
		
Click to expand...

An unbelievable player, certainly the best I’ve seen at Old Trafford. And still a great player. But nobody will ever convince me he was part of the plan for this season!


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			An unbelievable player, certainly the best I’ve seen at Old Trafford. And still a great player. But nobody will ever convince me he was part of the plan for this season!
		
Click to expand...

wasnt part of the plan until he became available, but the plan since signing him hasnt been optimal either thats for sure

maybe its an arsenal fan thing at being used to signings being what became available not planned lol but surely once you sign him the plan changes

do you think youd be better or worse off if he hadnt signed this year?


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## Billysboots (Mar 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			wasnt part of the plan until he became available, but the plan since signing him hasnt been optimal either thats for sure

maybe its an arsenal fan thing at being used to signings being what became available not planned lol but surely once you sign him the plan changes

*do you think youd be better or worse off if he hadnt signed this year?*

Click to expand...

The stats would suggest we’d be worse off. He has certainly bailed us out more than once, that’s for sure.

It might be wise to judge at the end of this season. If we don’t make top four, and that looks highly unlikely unless your lot do a Devon Loch, and we don’t win the Champion’s League (fat chance of that happening), then it will be very difficult to hail his signing as a success. I certainly don’t see any significant evidence that his presence has helped bring the best out of those around him.

The club is an absolute mess, from top to bottom, so much so that no one player can do any more than paper over the very significant cracks. I genuinely believed that the signings of Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo would, at the very least, ensure we were comfortably top four. But we are as far away from playing as a team as we have been for years, and the reality is that, whilst he has doubtless provided moments of absolute quality, Ronaldo’s signing has not taken the club forward at all.


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			The stats would suggest we’d be worse off. He has certainly bailed us out more than once, that’s for sure.

It might be wise to judge at the end of this season. If we don’t make top four, and that looks highly unlikely unless your lot do a Devon Loch, and we don’t win the Champion’s League (fat chance of that happening), then it will be very difficult to hail his signing as a success. I certainly don’t see any significant evidence that his presence has helped bring the best out of those around him.

The club is an absolute mess, from top to bottom, so much so that no one player can do any more than paper over the very significant cracks. I genuinely believed that the signings of Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo would, at the very least, ensure we were comfortably top four. But we are as far away from playing as a team as we have been for years, and the reality is that, whilst he has doubtless provided moments of absolute quality, Ronaldo’s signing has not taken the club forward at all.
		
Click to expand...


Were plenty capable, long long way to go yet, starting tomorrow for our very thin small squad! Were only a couple of injuries (or red cards) from being back in trouble lol

From an outside perspective it seems Ronaldo gets the blame for a lot of failings that arent his fault rather than the right ownership of problems, from the board down through the management to plenty of the other players


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			An unbelievable player, certainly the best I’ve seen at Old Trafford. And still a great player. But nobody will ever convince me he was *part of the plan* for this season!
		
Click to expand...

There was a plan?


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			An unbelievable player, certainly the best I’ve seen at Old Trafford. And still a great player. *But nobody will ever convince me he was part of the plan for this season!*

Click to expand...

He was definitely part of the Glazers' plan, think how many shirt sales he's been responsible for!
That's the Glazers' plan.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 12, 2022)

If the rumours in today's papers are true then Utd and the other Top 6 clubs have got bigger things to worry about. Haaland reported to be interested in a move to Man City. Might as well just not bother for the next 5 years and hand City the trophies now if that happens. City getting a striker capable of 30+ goals a season is the last thing that rival fans or neutrals will want to see.

Man Utd still look miles away from challenging for the title. They could probably keep Varane but need the other 3 of the back 4 replacing. At least two new midfielders, with Pogba likely to leave and Fred + McTominay not good enough for a starting spot in a team that has serious title ambitions. And a striker to replace Ronaldo/Cavani when they leave. It's less and overhaul that they need and more major surgery.

Anything could happen at Chelsea with the new owners, whoever they might be. They could easily have lost several of their players on free transfers by the time the sale is sorted and who knows how much they'll have to spend on replacements.

Can also see the Salah situation at Liverpool causing them problems. He's reported to want £400k a week to sign a new contract. While it's an outrageous amount of money, in footballing terms is it really that extreme? He's one of the best players, if not the best player, in the world right now so that's not out of the realms of possibility for him to be earning that amount. But, if Liverpool pay it does it then have a knock on effect when they come to renew other contracts? Would another player that would previously have been happy with £200k a week now want £250k a week? Players like Allison, VVD, Robertson and TAA are also up there as the best players in the world for their position. Would they then start looking for a big pay rise? And if Liverpool don't pay Salah the £400k he wants and they sell him rather than let him leave on a free, do those other top players then question the ambition of the club? 

Can't see Spurs or Arsenal challenging so we might as well give it all to Man City and spend the next 5 years shopping with our wives/husbands instead of following the football. Glad I'm a Col U fan with the inevitable relegation battle to look forward to every season as the PL could be all over by Xmas for the next few years.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 12, 2022)

And apologies to the Liverpool fans for this thought, but imagine if Liverpool refuse to pay Salah £400k a week so he decides to leave. But he's quite happy in the north west of England. There's a couple of clubs in that region that wouldn't be shy of giving him what he wanted. Imagine being a Liverpool fan and seeing this week in, week out.......


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## 2blue (Mar 12, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Not for me,* but to still have that desire and drive is an amazing attitude to have, a lot of players at Man Utd and elsewhere could and should take inspiration from a player like that.*

Click to expand...

An inspiration to UK footie the first time around.....  & now repeating it....  he's the GOAT...  no question!!


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## BiMGuy (Mar 12, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			And apologies to the Liverpool fans for this thought, but imagine if Liverpool refuse to pay Salah £400k a week so he decides to leave. But he's quite happy in the north west of England. There's a couple of clubs in that region that wouldn't be shy of giving him what he wanted. Imagine being a Liverpool fan and seeing this week in, week out.......

View attachment 41775




Click to expand...

City would surely prefer Haaland?


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 12, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			City would surely prefer Haaland?
		
Click to expand...

I wasn't thinking of it as an "either/or" situation. More that City get Haaland and then if the Salah contract doesn't get sorted get him as well. Haaland, with his contract clause, is going to cost around £100 million for the transfer fee, agent's demands and signing on fee. If Salah was on a long contract then you'd almost certainly be talking about a world record transfer fee to sign him, but with only a year left on his contract is it going to be that much more than the Haaland fee if he leaves? I'm sure that if City let three or four squad players leave they could afford to spend £200 million on those two players this summer and still balance the books. Newcastle would probably give them most of that to sign Sterling, Mahrez and Stones.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 12, 2022)

Atwell (he of, 1 or is it two brothers, who are man City season ticket holders) with another shocker again today. I think he has had 3 or 4 absolute shockers of decisions, mainly as a VAR ref in our games this season. 

When will Mike Riley pull the plug, he obviously has an agenda against us (atwell, that is), and in ones were he hasnt asked the ref to have another look.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 12, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Atwell (he of, 1 or is it two brothers, who are man City season ticket holders) with another shocker again today. I think he has had 3 or 4 absolute shockers of decisions, mainly as a VAR ref in our games this season.

When will Mike Riley pull the plug, he obviously has an agenda against us (atwell, that is), and in ones were he hasnt asked the ref to have another look.
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if we will get an apology off Mr Riley.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I wonder if we will get an apology off Mr Riley.
		
Click to expand...

Stuff the apology, discipline the refs, especially when they have a shocker.

Apart from David James (goalkeepers union), no-one has said that wasn't a red.

1. High
2. Late (and could have pulled out of it)
3. Out of control.

What mitigation was there? Oh aye, we scored - that was the only reason why he didnt see red, but it's not a mitigation for a challenge so dangerous.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 13, 2022)

Well, it is obvious that some find it impossible to say anything positive about United. In fact, they desperately try and highlight any negative they can think off, even when one player manages to pull off one of the great performances (even Sky rated the performance a rare 10/10).

Yes, United are an awful team relative to how they should be. But, they have the greatest player of all time, without doubt, in my opinion (over his career). Who cares if one thinks he is the best in the world right now anyway? He is still unbelievable, and full credit to him at 37 to still put in performances like that. He has bailed Utd out many times this year, about the only shining light, along with maybe the goalkeeper, this season.


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## adam6177 (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Stuff the apology, discipline the refs, especially when they have a shocker.

Apart from David James (goalkeepers union), no-one has said that wasn't a red.

1. High
2. Late (and could have pulled out of it)
3. Out of control.

What mitigation was there? Oh aye, we scored - that was the only reason why he didnt see red, but it's not a mitigation for a challenge so dangerous.
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't trust anything David James says, I think he's just trying to make him relevant again.... Probably needs the cash.  There was a red card 2-3 weeks ago with another team that everyone else in the country was saying was a red... And sure enough he said no.


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## Crazyface (Mar 13, 2022)

Well with following of about 4500 in the ground, capacity, Macclesfield FC are CHAMPIONS.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Well with following of about 4500 in the ground, capacity, Macclesfield FC are CHAMPIONS.
		
Click to expand...

Are they back on the football league now?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Stuff the apology, discipline the refs, especially when they have a shocker.

Apart from David James (goalkeepers union), no-one has said that wasn't a red.

1. High
2. Late (and could have pulled out of it)
3. Out of control.

What mitigation was there? Oh aye, we scored - that was the only reason why he didnt see red, but it's not a mitigation for a challenge so dangerous.
		
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Nevermind Attwel, I was more annoyed Mike Dean never sent him off or booked him. He had a great view. Maybe he was worried he’d be accused of favouring us with being a scouser himself.

I alluded to it earlier on. He shouldn’t be doing our games, I don’t think they are totally impartial. Likewise Manchester refs doing manc games. 

It was ironic that Bissouma was booked for dissent, bouncing the ball after a foul that wasn’t. 🤦


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2022)

Always be the same opinion for me in regards Ronaldo 

The Best Goalscorer that the game has seen but imo the best player in terms of ability etc is either Messi or Maradona


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Atwell (he of, 1 or is it two brothers, who are man City season ticket holders) with another shocker again today. I think he has had 3 or 4 absolute shockers of decisions, mainly as a VAR ref in our games this season.

*When will Mike Riley pull the plug, *he obviously has an agenda against us (atwell, that is), and in ones were he hasnt asked the ref to have another look.
		
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On what??

He’s leading this horror show of VAR. He is the problem. Until he goes we’ll continue to get the same crap served up week after week.


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## adam6177 (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Always be the same opinion for me in regards Ronaldo

The Best Goalscorer that the game has seen but imo the best player in terms of ability etc is either Messi or Maradona
		
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I'd add the original Ronaldo into that mix for striker... And ronaldinho for natural ability. That man was an artist on the pitch.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 13, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I'd add the original Ronaldo into that mix for striker... And ronaldinho for natural ability. That man was an artist on the pitch.
		
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I bet many of those freestyle artists, that you see playing 5 aside games, probably have more natural ability in terms of all professional footballers, but most would be completely ineffective in professional football.

No doubt Ronaldinho was amongst the best who played professional football in terms of that skill set, but not even close to being as good as Messi or C Ronaldo. To he honest, when C Ronaldo started at Utd he had crazy skills, and could have progressed his career developing those skills. However, it often didn't help the team as much as they'd like, so he went down a different path of working hard to optimise his performance for the team.


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## Crazyface (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Are they back on the football league now?
		
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No. That's still a very long way off. But, from what I can gather, despite a certain pundits influence, we've managed to win the league we were dumped into. It's been a bit tricky at times, some of the teams down there are a bit miffed at our support, one club refused us tickets as they couldn't cope with the following. But the new owner has turned us around and along with very cheap prices and free kids to get in, support has grown from 2500 to 4500. They've made a bomb from merchandise. The standards not been great. Stockport gave us a lesson in the Cheshire cup. But hey ho, onwards and upwards. I suspect a clear out of players in the summer and a big rebuild in the team to have a go at winning the next league we're put in.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			And apologies to the Liverpool fans for this thought, but imagine if Liverpool refuse to pay Salah £400k a week so he decides to leave. But he's quite happy in the north west of England. There's a couple of clubs in that region that wouldn't be shy of giving him what he wanted. Imagine being a Liverpool fan and seeing this week in, week out.......

View attachment 41775




Click to expand...

There’s a piece on BBC which states that Salah has to choose between being an Icon at Liverpool or leave and chase the money. There 2 things I thought to that story. 
1, I would of said Legend not Icon. There’s a massive difference. 
2, why can he not have both. He has a value in a world market. If Bale is worth 450k a week. How much is Salah worth. 
From A neutral Point of view. The worrying story is that Salah is happy to stay in the Prem league. If that is to be believed that massively narrows down options. Let’s be right there have been transfers between  City and Liverpool recently. Sterling and Milner. Ave heard the story re Haaland coming but I heard Kane was wearing a City shirt this season and look how that panned out. The end of this season will be interesting for City. One or 2 players could be gone. But City’s academy has some fantastic players ready to come through that will be as good as Foden was a couple of years ago. There wages could sweeten the blow of two players coming in on big wages eg Haaland and Salah. But as mentioned with Liverpool re Allison, VVD etc if Salah gets a rise what about them. If City have Haaland on big wages. What about KDB and others.
 Finally it’s not a cert that you might as well give City the trophies for the next 5 years, but if that’s the case. Well it’s similar to when Utd swept all before them from 2000-20111. 
personally I am more focused on the rest of the season which is set up nicely for City, Liverpool and neutrals. 
For the record I would prefer Salah to stay where he is. But if I have a choice of having Haaland or Salah in the back of my shit next year, it’s Haaland 😉


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## Slime (Mar 13, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I'd add the original Ronaldo into that mix for striker... And *ronaldinho for natural ability*. That man was an artist on the pitch.
		
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I'll just throw Matt Le Tissier and Robin Friday into the mix if we're talking natural ability.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s a piece on BBC which states that Salah has to choose between being an Icon at Liverpool or leave and chase the money. There 2 things I thought to that story.
1, I would of said Legend not Icon. There’s a massive difference.
2, *why can he not have both. *He has a value in a world market. If Bale is worth 450k a week. How much is Salah worth.
From A neutral Point of view. The worrying story is that Salah is happy to stay in the Prem league. If that is to be believed that massively narrows down options. Let’s be right there have been transfers between  City and Liverpool recently. Sterling and Milner. Ave heard the story re Haaland coming but I heard Kane was wearing a City shirt this season and look how that panned out. The end of this season will be interesting for City. One or 2 players could be gone. But City’s academy has some fantastic players ready to come through that will be as good as Foden was a couple of years ago. There wages could sweeten the blow of two players coming in on big wages eg Haaland and Salah. But as mentioned with Liverpool re Allison, VVD etc if Salah gets a rise what about them. If City have Haaland on big wages. What about KDB and others.
Finally it’s not a cert that you might as well give City the trophies for the next 5 years, but if that’s the case. Well it’s similar to when Utd swept all before them from 2000-20111.
personally I am more focused on the rest of the season which is set up nicely for City, Liverpool and neutrals.
For the record I would prefer Salah to stay where he is. But if I have a choice of having Haaland or Salah in the back of my shit next year, it’s Haaland 😉
		
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It's down to the club having a wage structure that they're not prepared to smash.  Whther its right or wrong that will remain to be seen but personally i'd give him close to whatever wants.

I also understand the club dont have a bottomless pot of money like some clubs have to be funding such wages.

The alledged figure is rumoured to  be somewhere betweeen £350-£450k.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			No. That's still a very long way off. But, from what I can gather, despite a certain pundits influence, we've managed to win the league we were dumped into. It's been a bit tricky at times, some of the teams down there are a bit miffed at our support, one club refused us tickets as they couldn't cope with the following. But the new owner has turned us around and along with very cheap prices and free kids to get in, support has grown from 2500 to 4500. They've made a bomb from merchandise. The standards not been great. Stockport gave us a lesson in the Cheshire cup. But hey ho, onwards and upwards. I suspect a clear out of players in the summer and a big rebuild in the team to have a go at winning the next league we're put in.
		
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Sounds brilliant. Proper football eh.

What league are they in now?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It's down to the club having a wage structure that they're not prepared to smash.  Whther its right or wrong that will remain to be seen but personally i'd give him close to whatever wants.

I also understand the club dont have a bottomless pot of money like some clubs have to be funding such wages.

The alledged figure is rumoured to  be somewhere betweeen £350-£450k.
		
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Just had a look on a site re wages. Ironically an LFC site. Anyway it shows the Utd wages. Flipping eck there stealing a living. The Liverpool players wages look quite healthy compared and that’s an understatement. The squad did look like it’s getting on a bit though. Is a rebuild already underway.


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## adam6177 (Mar 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just had a look on a site re wages. Ironically an LFC site. Anyway it shows the Utd wages. Flipping eck there stealing a living. The Liverpool players wages look quite healthy compared and that’s an understatement. The squad did look like it’s getting on a bit though. Is a rebuild already underway.
		
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I think the first 11 is well underway.... The new front 3 could eventually be Diaz, Jota, Elliot..... The only "old" one in defence is VVD.  Couple of midfield are getting on a little, but nothing urgent.  Fabinho is 28, Keita is ok age... But it's nothing to be overly concerned about I don't think.

In terms of the Salah situation.... I don't want to see him go, I want him to stay with us for another 3-4 years at least. But not at the cost of £350k-£450k per week, that opens the floodgates for a wage structure that's not sustainable and not in keeping with our club... Unlike 3 others in the league.

If he leaves, he leaves. The world keeps turning.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 13, 2022)

Glad to see Saints are still consistent with our patterns of form......

Only plus being it drags Everton more in the mud.


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2022)

Chelsea sanctions dont apply to VAR decisions then lol


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## adam6177 (Mar 13, 2022)

Coote isn't competent to ref at this level.

The sevenoaks benevolent leagaue division 3 needs extra refs though.


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## rudebhoy (Mar 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Chelsea sanctions dont apply to VAR decisions then lol
		
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So some clown looked at the challenge on Targett and decided it wasn’t worth the ref reviewing despite a clear shirt pull? Ridiculous.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It's down to the club having a wage structure that they're not prepared to smash.  Whther its right or wrong that will remain to be seen but personally i'd give him close to whatever wants.

I also understand the club dont have a bottomless pot of money like some clubs have to be funding such wages.

The alledged figure is rumoured to  be somewhere betweeen *£350-£450k*.
		
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Love that range of £££s/week when Dalglish cost Liverpool all of £440k - a transfer fee which they couldn’t afford as they funded transfers out of the bank balance and bank loans.  My uncle was Liverpool‘s bank manager at the time and he told Paisley that they couldn’t afford him.  Paisley had to convince my uncle to finance Liverpool buying him - he became convinced and enjoyed many years watching Dalglish from the Anfield Directors Box and in European Cup finals as the guest of the club


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## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2022)

What a goal. 

Tidy finish and the ovation from the crowd.

Well played yarmeleko. Can see the emotion pour out of him


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## Old Skier (Mar 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Chelsea sanctions dont apply to VAR decisions then lol
		
Click to expand...

System doesn't work, bin it.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

What a touch and goal from Havertz, even though he shouldnt be on the pitch


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Old Skier said:



			System doesn't work, bin it.
		
Click to expand...

System works ok. Its the inept clowns we have using it.


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## Jensen (Mar 13, 2022)

Chelsea score and their f


Stuart_C said:



			What a touch and goal from Havertz, even though he shoulsnt be on the pitch
		
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Only time Chelsea fans sang, it was like a library. Thought The Toon were playing at home.


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## davemc1 (Mar 13, 2022)

It’s happening isn’t it..? 🤞🏼


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## Old Skier (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			System works ok. Its the inept clowns we have using it.
		
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If we only have clowns operating it then its not going to work. I thought it was just refs in the National League that were poor but it seems to have spread all the way to the top.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It's down to the club having a wage structure that they're not prepared to smash.  Whther its right or wrong that will remain to be seen but personally i'd give him close to whatever wants.

I also understand the club dont have a bottomless pot of money like some clubs have to be funding such wages.

The alledged figure is rumoured to  be somewhere betweeen £350-£450k.
		
Click to expand...

Guess it’s going to come down to what the player wants - the club have always been very strong in regards wage offers , VVD recently signed his new contract at £230k a week , Salah no doubt has been offered more than that but not much more , when you add in the various bonuses then he is going to take home a lot of money , the club won’t give him over £350k - no chance and if that’s what he wants then he will prob be sold , but I don’t see where he will end up and be the same player. He can be the best paid player at the club , continue to play in a system that suits his game , be idolised by the fans , continue to challenge and win trophies - or he can look for £100k more a week 🤷‍♂️

I have a feeling the agent is trying to milk his worth with it being the last big contract


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2022)

Old Skier said:



			If we only have clowns operating it then its not going to work. I thought it was just refs in the National League that were poor but it seems to have spread all the way to the top.
		
Click to expand...

Ave said it before and I will continue to say it. VAR was brought in to help referees who were struggling with the pace of the game, or were incompetent. The same incompetent refs are running VAR. How could we expect any other. There was a time When the suggestion was that ex pro players went into becoming referees. At the very least the people that oversee footballers, PFA? Should be insisting that ex pros are in the Booth at Stockley Park if only to give a players perspective on certain
 “Incidents”.


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## Old Skier (Mar 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Ave said it before and I will continue to say it. VAR was brought in to help referees who were struggling with the pace of the game, or were incompetent. The same incompetent refs are running VAR. How could we expect any other. There was a time When the suggestion was that ex pro players went into becoming referees. At the very least the people that oversee footballers, PFA? Should be insisting that ex pros are in the Booth at Stockley Park if only to give a players perspective on certain
“Incidents”.
		
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Poachers turned gamekeeper, interesting concept


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## BiMGuy (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Guess it’s going to come down to what the player wants - the club have always been very strong in regards wage offers , VVD recently signed his new contract at £230k a week , Salah no doubt has been offered more than that but not much more , when you add in the various bonuses then he is going to take home a lot of money , the club won’t give him over £350k - no chance and if that’s what he wants then he will prob be sold , but I don’t see where he will end up and be the same player. He can be the best paid player at the club , continue to play in a system that suits his game , be idolised by the fans , continue to challenge and win trophies - or he can look for £100k more a week 🤷‍♂️

I have a feeling the agent is trying to milk his worth with it being the last big contract
		
Click to expand...

Be idolised by a load of Stone Island clad Neanderthals or put another £5million a year in the the bank. Tough choice.

Don’t forget that to most players, football is just a job and they don’t have the emotional attachment to a club the fans do.


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## adam6177 (Mar 13, 2022)

Saka is some talent.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			It’s happening isn’t it..? 🤞🏼
		
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Yes, “our home form will keep us up” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Saka is some talent.
		
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oi Liverpool, hands off!!!!!!


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes, “our home form will keep us up” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
		
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lets hope the away side are 9/2 at 0-0 at HT every week 🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			oi Liverpool, hands off!!!!!!
		
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Give you £10m and a brilliant CM in part ex😉


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Give you £10m and a brilliant CM in part ex😉
		
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come on, youve got add the extra penny at least


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			lets hope the away side are 9/2 at 0-0 at HT every week 🤣🤣🤣
		
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Arrggghhhh I missed that. I had Wolves @12/5 at the start. Had a £5er on Partey FGS too🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Arrggghhhh I missed that. I had Wolves @12/5 at the start. Had a £5er on Partey FGS too🤷‍♂️
		
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too good


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503027907408637956
Any reason why VAR decided the shirt pull is no longer a foul 🤷‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503027907408637956
Any reason why VAR decided the shirt pull is no longer a foul 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Its mad because it could only have been 1 out of 2 outcomes and it wasn’t either of them. How was it a corner?


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## Bazzatron (Mar 13, 2022)

My passport has been in and out of that cupboard more times than my pants this season.


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## adam6177 (Mar 13, 2022)

VAR rightly sees the faintest of finger touches for a penalty.... Yet in the pool game a wwe style assault leg drop doesn't even get a yellow.

God I love football 😂


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## BiMGuy (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503027907408637956
Any reason why VAR decided the shirt pull is no longer a foul 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Clearly a foul for the shirt pull, but the foul started outside the box. Then the Newcastle player clearly dived.


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## BrianM (Mar 13, 2022)

Arsenal playing some great football, best I’ve seen them play in ages.


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## Bazzatron (Mar 13, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503039016932986888


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2022)

Comfortable enough in the end. Oedegaard just gets better and better

Might see a bit better how much weve progressed in midweek but definitely building a platform. Big advantage not playing in Europe means lack of squad depth currently not being tested and will need to add in the summer irrelevant of if/where we are in in Europe


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Comfortable enough in the end. Oedegaard just gets better and better

Might see a bit better how much weve progressed in midweek but definitely building a platform. Big advantage not playing in Europe means lack of squad depth currently not being tested and will need to add in the summer irrelevant of if/where we are in in Europe
		
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Said ages ago that Arsenal IMO will get top 4 , they are the best of the rest going forward and in the middle , certainly got momentum


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Nevermind Attwel, I was more annoyed Mike Dean never sent him off or booked him. He had a great view. Maybe he was worried he’d be accused of favouring us with being a scouser himself.

I alluded to it earlier on. He shouldn’t be doing our games, I don’t think they are totally impartial. Likewise Manchester refs doing manc games.

It was ironic that Bissouma was booked for dissent, bouncing the ball after a foul that wasn’t. 🤦
		
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I agree, they shouldnt be put in that position, but with at least 4 greater manchester based refs in the prem (and all of them supprting non-league clubs - the chances of that) they will struggle for refs!!!!

Were you actually annoyed at Mike Dean from your actual seat at the actual game, that you were actually at. 

High 5 Davey mac.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			On what??

He’s leading this horror show of VAR. He is the problem. Until he goes we’ll continue to get the same crap served up week after week.
		
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He is, but even if you get rid of him it wont solve all of the problems.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Be idolised by a load of Stone Island clad Neanderthals or put another £5million a year in the the bank. Tough choice.

Don’t forget that to most players, football is just a job and they don’t have the emotional attachment to a club the fans do.
		
Click to expand...

You don't get much stone island at Anfield, thats for wannabee divvies.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Bazzatron said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503039016932986888

Click to expand...

Its so accurate its scary.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree, they shouldnt be put in that position, but with at least 4 greater manchester based refs in the prem (and all of them supprting non-league clubs - the chances of that) they will struggle for refs!!!!

*Were you actually annoyed at Mike Dean from your actual seat at the actual game, that you were actually at.*

High 5 Davey mac. 

Click to expand...

Not just any seat, it was a padded seat aswell😉

We've had this discussion before so i'll be brief, we  need a new influx of referees and Mike Riley needs leggin. I think PL refs are being micro managed  by Riley.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			He is, but even if you get rid of him it wont solve all of the problems.
		
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It will because the next man cant continue to make a balls of how VAR is used.
Out of all the recommendations for the ref to go the screen none have been upheld. On the balance of probability of that happening is about 3000000/1


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Not just any seat, it was a padded seat aswell😉

We've had this discussion before so i'll be brief, we  need a new influx of referees and Mike Riley needs leggin. I think PL refs are being micro managed  by Riley.
		
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OO, get you. 

How many asked were the corporate buffet was?


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It will because the next man cant continue to make a balls of how VAR is used.
Out of all the recommendations for the ref to go the screen none have been upheld. On the balance of probability of that happening is about 3000000/1
		
Click to expand...

It wont mate, it may solve a lot but not all.

Brighton keeper yesterday, Havertz today plus a few others. Its not Riley in their head for these decisions its just shocking refereeing.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			OO, get you. 

How many asked were the corporate buffet was? 

Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 none.  

Padded seats come as a standard at the Amex.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			It wont mate, it may solve a lot but not all.

Brighton keeper yesterday, Havertz today plus a few others. Its not Riley in their head for these decisions its just shocking refereeing.
		
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Solving 50% would still make a massive improvement to refereeing.

If Riley isnt in their heads why is there fewer Screen referrals and 0 decisons being upheld? 

Ita almost like their trying to sabbotage each other.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 13, 2022)

Think the relegation battle is now two from three. Goodbye Norwich and think Leeds will scramble enough ugly points. The only bonus for Everton fans is the games in hand but no good if you can't win them.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think the relegation battle is now two from three. Goodbye Norwich and think Leeds will scramble enough ugly points. *The only bonus for Everton fans is the games in hand but no good if you can't win them.*

Click to expand...

Im not sure you thought that through H🤣🤣


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Im not sure you thought that through H🤣🤣
		
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Depends if you're glass half full or half empty. Three games in hand over Leeds and Watford so you could say great, a chance for 9 points (yes I know) or the pessimists could say they won't win them and once level on points could be in bottom three and struggling. When Fulham were battling last season, I wanted the points on the board and let the others try and win the games in hand. Shame they did!


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Solving 50% would still make a massive improvement to refereeing.

If Riley isnt in their heads why is there fewer Screen referrals and 0 decisons being upheld?

Ita almost like their trying to sabbotage each other.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with your sentiments but not the amounts you think will improve.

Who will be the new refereeing head who will oversee this revolution?


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## yandabrown (Mar 13, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree with your sentiments but not the amounts you think will improve.

Who will be the new refereeing head who will oversee this revolution?
		
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Someone from another league that has a good track record of implementing VAR (I don't know of any, just making a suggestion). We have managers and players from all around the world, why do the referees have to be home grown?


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			Someone from another league that has a good track record of implementing VAR (I don't know of any, just making a suggestion). We have managers and players from all around the world, why do the referees have to be home grown?
		
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I never said they should be home grown.

Ok, who should be this revolutionary, foreign, VAR testing guru extraordinaire, then?


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## greenone (Mar 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It will because the next man cant continue to make a balls of how VAR is used.
Out of all the recommendations for the ref to go the screen none have been upheld. On the balance of probability of that happening is about 3000000/1
		
Click to expand...

A bit like being charged by the fa, when was the time someone was charged and then found not guilty?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree with your sentiments but not the amounts you think will improve.

Who will be the new refereeing head who will oversee this revolution?
		
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Stevie Wonder would be a massive improvement on Riley. I dont know many refs personally but when i"ve heard Halsey on the radio he tends to speak a lot of sense. 

I'm assuming the premier league own the PGMOL so its upto Richard Masters to sort out. He cannot sit there and be happy with how the use of VAR and the standard of  refereeing are currently being served up week after week. 

Anybody but Peter Walton would be an improvement on Riley 😉


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Stevie Wonder would be a massive improvement on Riley. I dont know many refs personally but when i"ve heard Halsey on the radio he tends to speak a lot of sense….

….Anybody but Peter Walton would be an improvement on Riley 😉
		
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Sorry Stu, but Walton would be an improvement on Riley; barely, but an improvement nonetheless.  Stevie would be a bigger improvement though 👍


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## Fade and Die (Mar 14, 2022)

I see at the Match of Shame yesterday Chelsea fans continued to disgrace themselves while Toon supporters, who I used to have a lot of time for, acted like total scum with their lauding of a murderous regime in Saudi Arabia.... In traditional Kevin Keegan speak I'd loov it if the government came for them next. Not much chance though.

Newcastle fans fly Saudi flag after regime execute 81 as Abramovich banner flies at Chelsea stadium | Daily Mail Online


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## Newtonuti (Mar 14, 2022)

I have a confession to make...... I'm a Scunthorpe United fan. God knows what I did in a former life to deserve this!


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## Jensen (Mar 14, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I see at the Match of Shame yesterday Chelsea fans continued to disgrace themselves while Toon supporters, who I used to have a lot of time for, acted like total scum with their lauding of a murderous regime in Saudi Arabia.... In traditional Kevin Keegan speak I'd loov it if the government came for them next. Not much chance though.

Newcastle fans fly Saudi flag after regime execute 81 as Abramovich banner flies at Chelsea stadium | Daily Mail Online

Click to expand...

I wouldn’t believe everything you read in the papers, in particular The Daily Mail.
I noticed that despite ALL the photos there wasn’t one shown of The Toon Army waiving a Saudi flag 🤔
Capital punishment is dished out in America, but no uproar about that !!
In the right circumstances, maybe if we had capital punishment the crime right wouldn’t be so high.
Toon fans chanting “they have more money” is purely banter as Chelsea fans have lauded it long enough 😉
Despite common among clubs, Chelsea seem to have far more arrogant and cocky fans. So maybe it’s time they were brought down a peg or two 👍


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## nickjdavis (Mar 14, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I see at the Match of Shame yesterday Chelsea fans continued to disgrace themselves while Toon supporters, who I used to have a lot of time for, acted like total scum with their lauding of a murderous regime in Saudi Arabia.... In traditional Kevin Keegan speak I'd loov it if the government came for them next. Not much chance though.

Newcastle fans fly Saudi flag after regime execute 81 as Abramovich banner flies at Chelsea stadium | Daily Mail Online

Click to expand...

Wouldn't surprise me if they had taken Saudi flags to other games as well. To isolate one occurrence of what likely happens every weekend, and directly relate it (and infer support) to a report of a shocking mass execution in SA the day before, is simply lazy journalism designed to do nothing more than provoke reaction. I notice that not one single report (out of dozens on the web) actually shows any images of said flags being flown.

The Mirror version of the story was backed up with a picture that...

1) Had no Newcastle fans in it
2) Did not show any Saudi Flag
3) Did not appear to be of Stamford Bridge!!! (certainly not the ground as it was yesterday....maybe 20-30 years ago)


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## Dando (Mar 14, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Wouldn't surprise me if they had taken Saudi flags to other games as well. To isolate one occurrence of what likely happens every weekend, and directly relate it (and infer support) to a report of a shocking mass execution in SA the day before, is simply lazy journalism designed to do nothing more than provoke reaction. I notice that not one single report (out of dozens on the web) actually shows any images of said flags being flown.

The Mirror version of the story was backed up with a picture that...

1) Had no Newcastle fans in it
2) Did not show any Saudi Flag
3) Wasn't even of Stamford Bridge!!! (certainly not the ground as it was yesterday....maybe 20 years ago)
		
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are you suggesting that the Daily Mail is shite stirring?


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## nickjdavis (Mar 14, 2022)

Dando said:



			are you suggesting that the Daily Mail is shite stirring?
		
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you can omit the word "stirring".


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## Fade and Die (Mar 14, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I wouldn’t believe everything you read in the papers, in particular The Daily Mail.
I noticed that despite ALL the photos there wasn’t one shown of The Toon Army waiving a Saudi flag 🤔
Capital punishment is dished out in America, but no uproar about that !!
In the right circumstances, maybe if we had capital punishment the crime right wouldn’t be so high.
Toon fans chanting “they have more money” is purely banter as Chelsea fans have lauded it long enough 😉
Despite common among clubs, Chelsea seem to have far more arrogant and cocky fans. So maybe it’s time they were brought down a peg or two 👍
		
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nickjdavis said:



			Wouldn't surprise me if they had taken Saudi flags to other games as well. To isolate one occurrence of what likely happens every weekend, and directly relate it (and infer support) to a report of a shocking mass execution in SA the day before, is simply lazy journalism designed to do nothing more than provoke reaction. I notice that not one single report (out of dozens on the web) actually shows any images of said flags being flown.

The Mirror version of the story was backed up with a picture that...

1) Had no Newcastle fans in it
2) Did not show any Saudi Flag
3) Did not appear to be of Stamford Bridge!!! (certainly not the ground as it was yesterday....maybe 20-30 years ago)
		
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So because it’s reported in the Mail it’s somehow Non-News?

Here’s the BBC reporting the same thing, calling it the “sportwashing” derby too!😆

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60734095

Alas no pics so you will have to take the Beebs word for but they are pretty reliable👍

Not saying our pimps are perfect and our reported takeover By Daniel Kretinsky is in doubt as one of Kretinsky's main sources of income, EP Infrastructure, is on the government negative watchlist as it owns a pipeline that carries Russian oil and gas through Slovakia.

So we could be stuck with Statler and Waldorf.


Although in all honesty, if Kretinsky is unwittingly helping Putin's regime in whatever minor way it's a small price to pay.

Gold & Sullivan have made their fortunes through porn, (but it's good, honest, British porn😉) so we can look those plastics who were chanting Roman's name the other night in the face and say 'not us'


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## nickjdavis (Mar 14, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			So because it’s reported in the Mail it’s somehow Non-News?

Here’s the BBC reporting the same thing, calling it the “sportwashing” derby too!😆

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60734095

Alas no pics so you will have to take the Beebs word for but they are pretty reliable👍

'
		
Click to expand...

...and all the BBC said about "the flag" buried deep in the article was...."_Or when a Saudi flag was spotted among Newcastle fans at Stamford Bridge_" .....That is a world of difference from headlining with "_Newcastle fans fly-Saudi flag as regime execute 81..._"

I have no doubt whatsoever that somewhere a Saudi flag was spotted in amongst the Newcastle fans....hell, someone may have waved it vigorously above their head at some/several stages during the game, but the Mails headline seems to be written with inflammatory intentions.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2022)

Newtonuti said:



			I have a confession to make...... I'm a Scunthorpe United fan. God knows what I did in a former life to deserve this!
		
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Count your blessings, you could've been an Evertonian🤣


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## Fade and Die (Mar 14, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			...and all the BBC said about "the flag" buried deep in the article was...."_Or when a Saudi flag was spotted among Newcastle fans at Stamford Bridge_" .....That is a world of difference from headlining with "_Newcastle fans fly-Saudi flag as regime execute 81..._"

I have no doubt whatsoever that somewhere a Saudi flag was spotted in amongst the Newcastle fans....hell, someone may have waved it vigorously above their head at some/several stages during the game, but the Mails headline seems to be written with inflammatory intentions.
		
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Ok, Maybe try to focus less on the style of reporting and more on the sort of people that own your club and the warm embrace they are receiving from the supporters? Does it not make you uncomfortable?


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## nickjdavis (Mar 14, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Ok, Maybe try to focus less on the style of reporting and more on the sort of people that own your club and the warm embrace they are receiving from the supporters? Does it not make you uncomfortable?
		
Click to expand...

I take the point you are making and yes there is a level of discomfort there. 

I wonder if my dad often thought the same as he picked up his wage packet at the end of the day after developing radar systems for military aircraft that were sold by our government to the same regime.

Sadly, football is being more and more dominated by money. From what I know and see, most super rich individuals/organisations have probably undertaken some practices that are perhaps less than savoury in pursuit of such riches. As football further sells itself to the highest bidder, more and more owners will have a certain number of skeletons in their closets. Unfortunately for Newcastle fans, our owners skeletons are particularly public and abhorrent by any standards.

I cannot control who owns the football club I have supported for 50 years or so and in all honesty I am not going to go marching in protest at my club being owned by the Saudis based on the way they treat their own citizens. If that makes me a bad person in many folks eyes...so be it....but I don't think you would find too many supporters of other clubs, if they were being ruthlessly honest, expressing a different opinion if they were in a similar position.

But yes...whilst I was delighted to see the back of the unambitious regime headed by Mike Ashley, I cant say that our new owners, other than the depth of their pockets, are owners that I personally would have chosen if I'd been drawing up the shortlist, or perhaps been in charge of the sale process.


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## chrisd (Mar 14, 2022)

City lucky to get a point this evening 🤫🤫


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## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2022)

Well done Palace, they done well with 10 men.


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## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2022)

No doubt City are a great side but they produce way too many performances like tonight to ever be considered anywhere near the best England has produced. No subs, no striker and predictable. It's cost them in the CL for years too. The result has opened the door for Liverpool big time.


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## Piece (Mar 15, 2022)

Chelsea wanting to play their FA Cup tie Middlesbrough behind closed doors at the weekend. 

Why penalise Middlesbrough?


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Piece said:



			Chelsea wanting to play their FA Cup tie Middlesbrough behind closed doors at the weekend. 

Why penalise Middlesbrough?
		
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already put them on random irritations

assume they want to play the rest of this seasons home games behind closed doors too? for sporting integrity obviously 🤣🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 15, 2022)

Piece said:



			Chelsea wanting to play their FA Cup tie Middlesbrough behind closed doors at the weekend. 

Why penalise Middlesbrough?
		
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What a load of tosh. I hope the FA throw this out within minutes of receiving it. Pathetic.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What a load of tosh. I hope the FA throw this out within minutes of receiving it. Pathetic.
		
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Maybe Chelsea should be allowed to continue to sell tickets. However, all money raised goes directly to charities helping Ukraine.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 15, 2022)

Piece said:



			Chelsea wanting to play their FA Cup tie Middlesbrough behind closed doors at the weekend. 

Why penalise Middlesbrough?
		
Click to expand...

I didn't think they were allowed to sell away tickets? But that was when first announced so prob changed


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe Chelsea should be allowed to continue to sell tickets. However, all money raised goes directly to charities helping Ukraine.
		
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How about Middlesbrough sell their away tickets for them? The moan is that only Boro fans will be there. Firstly, to moan about that is embarassing. Secondly, co-ordinate with Boro so that Chelsea fans can still buy those alloted tickets. Surely the club computer system can sort this out?

FA Cup proceeds are split 50:50 aren't they? It doesn't matter who sells the tickets to the Chelsea fans if that is still the case.


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 15, 2022)

What Chelsea are trying to do is laughable, especially since its 'only' the fa cup, but would many other clubs be any different?


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## Orikoru (Mar 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How about Middlesbrough sell their away tickets for them? The moan is that only Boro fans will be there. Firstly, to moan about that is embarassing. Secondly, co-ordinate with Boro so that Chelsea fans can still buy those alloted tickets. Surely the club computer system can sort this out?

FA Cup proceeds are split 50:50 aren't they? It doesn't matter who sells the tickets to the Chelsea fans if that is still the case.
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking this, it didn't make sense to me. Surely a way that Boro can sell the away tickets directly? I don't know. Still a ridiculous request from Chelsea, unless they plan to play every subsequent game this season with no fans. Using the phrase 'sporting integrity' really opens them up to ridicule as well.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 15, 2022)

Just remove Chelsea from the competition. Problem solved.


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Cracking response from Boro

https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/a-statement-from-middlesbrough-fc

*We are aware of Chelsea's request to have Saturday's Emirates FA Cup sixth round tie played behind closed doors and find their suggestion both bizarre and without any merit whatsoever.*
All concerned are well aware of the reasons Chelsea have been sanctioned and that this has nothing to do with Middlesbrough Football Club.

To suggest as result that MFC and our fans should be penalised is not only grossly unfair but without any foundation.

Given the reasons for these sanctions, for Chelsea to seek to invoke sporting "integrity" as reason for the game being played behind closed doors is ironic in the extreme.

We currently await formal notification from the FA of the next steps but rest assured MFC will resist Chelsea's actions in the strongest terms.


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Just remove Chelsea from the competition. Problem solved.
		
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Not sure you've thought that through


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## Bdill93 (Mar 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			Cracking response from Boro

https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/a-statement-from-middlesbrough-fc

*We are aware of Chelsea's request to have Saturday's Emirates FA Cup sixth round tie played behind closed doors and find their suggestion both bizarre and without any merit whatsoever.*
All concerned are well aware of the reasons Chelsea have been sanctioned and that this has nothing to do with Middlesbrough Football Club.

To suggest as result that MFC and our fans should be penalised is not only grossly unfair but without any foundation.

Given the reasons for these sanctions, for Chelsea to seek to invoke sporting "integrity" as reason for the game being played behind closed doors is ironic in the extreme.

We currently await formal notification from the FA of the next steps but rest assured MFC will resist Chelsea's actions in the strongest terms.
		
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UP THE BORO!


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## Swingalot (Mar 15, 2022)

Sorry to say the recent stuff coming out of Chelsea is classless and goes against many of the supporters they have, many I know well from growing up together in South London. The supporters I know are some of the most loyal and dedicated supporters, who followed Chelsea in great numbers when they were crap and in the good times, but to see the flying of the russian flag and the  'Roman Empire' flag at Stamford Bridge last week at a game that they, unlike any other PL side, had not yet been able to organise a 'unite for Ukraine' official gesture pre-game stank the place out. Now this request to play a FA cup q/f behind close doors......OMG! The arrogance and lack of self-awareness from inside Chelsea FC is frankly disgusting and is surely damaging the loyalty of large elements of their support. Sort it out Chelsea!


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## Newtonuti (Mar 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Count your blessings, you could've been an Evertonian🤣
		
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I'd take that over being relegated out of the football league!


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 15, 2022)

Chelsea have now withdrawn their request. 

Steve Gibson, Boro Chairman, has also ripped into Chelsea big time. No holds barred.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60757919


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## Dando (Mar 15, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Sorry to say the recent stuff coming out of Chelsea is classless and goes against many of the supporters they have, many I know well from growing up together in South London. The supporters I know are some of the most loyal and dedicated supporters, who followed Chelsea in great numbers when they were crap and in the good times, but to see the flying of the russian flag and the  'Roman Empire' flag at Stamford Bridge last week at a game that they, unlike any other PL side, had not yet been able to organise a 'unite for Ukraine' official gesture pre-game stank the place out. Now this request to play a FA cup q/f behind close doors......OMG! The arrogance and lack of self-awareness from inside Chelsea FC is frankly disgusting and is surely damaging the loyalty of large elements of their support. Sort it out Chelsea!
		
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there’s a few shifty Chelsea fans on here! 🤣


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Dando said:



			there’s a few shifty Chelsea fans on here! 🤣
		
Click to expand...


thought theyd been fraggered


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2022)

I can’t understand how someone at Chelsea even thought about asking the question and the statement about sporting integrity not exactly the best PR move


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## Dando (Mar 15, 2022)

BREAKING: Dominic Calvert-Lewin has been fined £1,600 and given 3 points on his licence for doing 58 in a 50mph road in Runcorn last August.

Everton can finally celebrate getting 3 points 🙌


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## BrianM (Mar 15, 2022)

Chelsea are clearly doing it to try and put a bit of pressure on the government to allow them to sell tickets, I don’t genuinely believe they want to play behind closed doors.
Let’s see what happens…..


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can’t understand how someone at Chelsea even thought about asking the question and the statement about sporting integrity not exactly the best PR move
		
Click to expand...

I think it just shows those running the club (Bruce Buck etc) are purely business people who know nothing/care about football and are totally out of touch with normal fans.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 15, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			I think it just shows those running the club (Bruce Buck etc) are purely business people who know nothing/care about football and are totally out of touch with normal fans.
		
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Nail firmly hit on the head. Some more cynical fans might say their grasp on the real world is skewed as well but that's another discussion. Glad the FA gave it the elbow nice and quickly


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Nail firmly hit on the head. Some more cynical fans might say their grasp on the real world is skewed as well but that's another discussion. Glad the FA gave it the elbow nice and quickly
		
Click to expand...


When did the FA give it the elbow? I thought Chelsea withdrew the request whilst trying to get their fans to the game with the FAs help?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			When did the FA give it the elbow? I thought Chelsea withdrew the request whilst trying to get their fans to the game with the FAs help?
		
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https://www.skysports.com/football/...cup-game-at-middlesbrough-behind-closed-doors

After "constructive talks".... which can easily be read as we're not doing that


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...cup-game-at-middlesbrough-behind-closed-doors

After "constructive talks".... which can easily be read as we're not doing that
		
Click to expand...


or it can be read as it actually is


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			or it can be read as it actually is
		
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He can't do that without putting his pitchfork down...


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## Billysboots (Mar 15, 2022)

Could be the last Champion’s League football we see at Old Trafford for a while 🙄


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Could be the last Champion’s League football we see at Old Trafford for a while 🙄
		
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........................ or maybe not.
Have faith, young man, have faith.


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			........................ or maybe not.
Have faith, young man, have faith.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like weve got a confident squirrel amongst us.....


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## IanM (Mar 15, 2022)

Jumping with goalie now illegal?


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Fred finally looking like a Brazilian


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

Fred ..................... take a bow!


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

get up Fernandes


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

Tackle from behind, I thought they were outlawed.
Not a pen for me, though.


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Tackle from behind, I thought they were outlawed.
Not a pen for me, though.
		
Click to expand...

tackle? he played the ball and fernandes jumped in the deep end lol


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			get up Fernandes
		
Click to expand...

Why not, 'get up Griezmann' a few minutes earlier?


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## adam6177 (Mar 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			tackle? he played the ball and fernandes jumped in the deep end lol
		
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Exactly, fernandes is embarrassing sometimes for someone who possesses decent amounts of talent.


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Why not, 'get up Griezmann' a few minutes earlier?
		
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geez gonna bore the thread if i do it every time one of simeones lot start s* housing lol


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

will happily do it when Lacazette does it tomorrow (and salah lol)


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## Billysboots (Mar 15, 2022)

A surprising amount of zip about United tonight that we’ve not seen for a while. And at long last someone has told Fred he is Brazilian.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Why not, 'get up Griezmann' a few minutes earlier?
		
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Do you mean the one where Fernandes followed through onto Griezeman's knee; that one?

I doubt Griezeman was as badly injured as he made out, but there was at least contact.


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

Yup, that's the one.


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

let the s* housing commence lol


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## adam6177 (Mar 15, 2022)




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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

How unjust.


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

adam6177 said:



View attachment 41834

Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

A cracking first half, just a shame about the ref!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			A cracking first half, just a shame about the ref!
		
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What’s wrong with the ref ?


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			A cracking first half, just a shame about the ref!
		
Click to expand...


as a neutral, think hes been excellent personally, not bought either sides theatrics. expect you may be moaning about him more by full time with Athleticos track record

would be more worried about how easily Athletico have opened you up a couple of times and players moaning to the ref rather than tracking back


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 15, 2022)

Refs done OK. Biggest problem is what cost United in the Manchester derby and players not doing their jobs and tracking back. The offside goal should have been a warning but they are still so lazy at times without the ball


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

just give Fernandes your whistle ref and let him get on with it, that or book him!


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s wrong with the ref ?
		
Click to expand...

How many times was Elanga fouled in the build up to their goal?


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			How many times was Elanga fouled in the build up to their goal?
		
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none


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			How many times was Elanga fouled in the build up to their goal?
		
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He wasn’t 🤷‍♂️ As Scholes said he needed to be stronger and not go down so easily


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			none
		
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Wrong.



Liverpoolphil said:



			He wasn’t 🤷‍♂️ As Scholes said he needed to be stronger and not go down so easily
		
Click to expand...

I asked you, not Scholes.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Wrong.



I asked you, not Scholes.
		
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And i gave you my answer just like Fundy did and also the studio pundit did - it wasn’t a foul , he went down too easy and then didn’t track back meaning his man scored - you aren’t losing because of the ref


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## Dando (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Wrong.



I asked you, not Scholes.
		
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It wasn’t a foul as it wasn’t given


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

Dando said:



			It wasn’t a foul as it wasn’t given
		
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That merely means that the officials didn't see it, as well you know, you little minx.


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And i gave you my answer just like Fundy did and also the studio pundit did - it wasn’t a foul , he went down too easy and then didn’t track back meaning his man scored - you aren’t losing because of the ref
		
Click to expand...

Elanga's mistake was staying on his feet too long.


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Elanga's mistake was staying on his feet too long.
		
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or not long enough


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

No, too long.


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

Atletico at it again.


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

United playing right into their hands here

Benfica winning in Ajax too


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## BiMGuy (Mar 15, 2022)

This picture sums ManU up perfectly.

Penandes complaining to the ref and Maguire looking confused 🤣


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)




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## Tashyboy (Mar 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			This picture sums ManU up perfectly.

Penandes complaining to the ref and Maguire looking confused 🤣
	View attachment 41836

Click to expand...

my bad, I never recognised him stood up.


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

I really can't think of a more horrible side than Atletico.


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## IanM (Mar 15, 2022)

This ref seems equally spaced-out.

But Utd have been all over the place


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

I rest my case, both of them.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 15, 2022)

Really odd subs Rangnick has made. I expected a few changes to freshen things up, but he has gone crazy and now we have no shape. Fred and McTomminay were doing pretty well, not sure what Matic brings to the table. Why take of Fernandez, yet bring on Mata a bit later? And I certainly didn't get excited when Rashford was brought on.


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Herrera from dying to sprinting in half a second lol, so Althletico


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## Beezerk (Mar 15, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			UP THE BORO!
		
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Speaking of which, anyone heard from Hobbit recently? He doesn’t seem to have posted for a while.


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

That was a really good game.
Atletico were horrible.
The ref fell for it, most of the time.
Fred was excellent, didn't think I'd ever say that.
I thought United were unlucky and certainly deserved something out of the game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2022)

Nice to see the Utd fans throwing the bottles at Simeone



fundy said:



			Herrera from dying to sprinting in half a second lol, so Althletico
		
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it’s them all over - been that way for years , you know exactly how they are going to be - horrible tactics 

Ultimately Utd didn’t create enough to win the match - they can blame the ref but the blame is with the players and the manager.

Ronaldo won’t be seen in the CL again now


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## Dando (Mar 15, 2022)

At least Man U can concentrate on the league… oh wait.

Maybe the FA cup… oh wait


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			That was a really good game.
Atletico were horrible.
The ref fell for it, most of the time.
Fred was excellent, didn't think I'd ever say that.
I thought United were unlucky and certainly deserved something out of the game.
		
Click to expand...


Horrible game, barely no clear cut chances bar the goal
Both sides were horrible (United until they went behind at least)
The ref was very good in the main, if a bit reluctant to use his cards
Fred was excellent, agreed
United got what they deserved for me, Maguire and Dalot were both exposed defensively a couple of times and that was the difference


Funny how we all see games differently. Be my turn to moan tomorrow night no doubt lol


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Everton have had more players appear in court (4) than Premier League wins since September. (3).  

Some stat that


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 15, 2022)

I'm sorry Scholesy, but most of the "qualities" that you are lauding Athletico for are not qualities.

Clever, masterclass, streetwise, asking for bookings, players going down, players conning the referee - these are horrible things, not good things.

Pundits are one of the reasons why diving, feigning, cheating are encouraged and passed off as something that you should go up the levels to.

I'm not naive enough to know that football isnt a corinthian sport, but come on, dont wax lyrical about Athetico's "style".


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## Dando (Mar 15, 2022)

Paul scholes saying Man U can get any manager in the world. 
He’s been sniffing his daughters feet again


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm sorry Scholesy, but most of the "qualities" that you are lauding Athletico for are not qualities.

Clever, masterclass, streetwise, asking for bookings, players going down, players conning the referee - these are horrible things, not good things.

Pundits are one of the reasons why diving, feigning, cheating are encouraged and passed off as something that you should go up the levels to.

I'm not naive enough to know that football isnt a corinthian sport, but come on, dont wax lyrical about Athetico's "style".
		
Click to expand...


Been the case for too long, ex pros lauding players for "winning" penalties, "earning" opposition players cards, managing the game/ref etc etc


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

fundy said:



*Funny how we all see games differently. Be my turn to moan tomorrow night no doubt lol*

Click to expand...

Oh, tomorrow night, who the hell do I want to win?
Please be a draw, pretty please!


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Oh, tomorrow night, who the hell do I want to win?
Please be a draw, pretty please!
		
Click to expand...


ill take a draw


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

Dando said:



			Paul scholes saying Man U can get any manager in the world.
He’s been sniffing his daughters feet again
		
Click to expand...

One of the greatest midfielders of all time.
One of the worst pundits of all time.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			Been the case for too long, ex pros lauding players for "winning" penalties, "earning" opposition players cards, managing the game/ref etc etc
		
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Agreed.

When did it change? Possibly once the first batch of retired highly-paid premiership players started to become pundits, maybe????


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## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Oh, tomorrow night, who the hell do I want to win?
Please be a draw, pretty please!
		
Click to expand...

A draw? If you have aspirations of CL football next season you need Arsenal to lose as many games as possible😀


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## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Agreed.

When did it change? Possibly once the first batch of retired highly-paid premiership players started to become pundits, maybe????
		
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Andy Gray started it with his ” he’s entitled to ask the ref a question”


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## fundy (Mar 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Andy Gray started it with his ” he’s entitled to ask the ref a question”
		
Click to expand...


30 seconds later Stu blames it on Everton


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## srixon 1 (Mar 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			Been the case for too long, ex pros lauding players for "winning" penalties, "earning" opposition players cards, managing the game/ref etc etc
		
Click to expand...

It’s all part of the game apparently. I cannot see it in the rules though.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			30 seconds later Stu blames it on Everton 

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂

I‘m right though.


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## hairball_89 (Mar 15, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			It’s all part of the game apparently. I cannot see it in the rules though.
		
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And yet, according to ref watch yesterday (I know... I know...!) Newcastle didn't get a penalty because "the fall was not commensurate to the action" for one of the most blatant fouls of the season. So are players supposed to go down or not?!

It's staggering how *everyone* involved in football appears to be an absolute buffoon.


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## srixon 1 (Mar 15, 2022)

The players only have themselves to blame for some of the decisions they don’t get that they should. Diving and moaning to the ref when they don’t get a decision has ruined football. Some of the diving is a joke. They are looking at the ref before they have even hit the ground.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2022)

I’ve seen some inept refereeing performances but the ref in that game I’ve just watched was horrific. Yernited never created enough to win that game.

Simeone should’ve evolved this Atletico team, they’re much better than this shithousery he’s currently serving up.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Andy Gray started it with his ” he’s entitled to ask the ref a question”
		
Click to expand...

I think it's my biggest bugbear when a former player or analyst says "There was contact so he was entitled to go down". No he wasn't. If the contact was enough to make the player go down then that's fair enough. Just because there is some contact that's no reason for the player's back to arch and his legs to stop working.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I think it's my biggest bugbear when a former player or analyst says "There was contact so he was entitled to go down". No he wasn't. If the contact was enough to make the player go down then that's fair enough. Just because there is some contact that's no reason for the player's back to arch and his legs to stop working.
		
Click to expand...

Problem is now there’s genuine fouls not being given because they’re allowing stronger tackles etc. It’s a mess from top to bottom.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nice to see the Utd fans throwing the bottles at Simeone
		
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A bit harsh us giving them stick for throwing bottles at coaches.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			A bit harsh us giving them stick for throwing bottles at coaches. 

Click to expand...

In true United style …… they missed


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			A draw? If you have aspirations of CL football next season you need Arsenal to lose as many games as possible😀
		
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Yes, but I know what that means!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Yes, but I know what that means!  

Click to expand...

Dont worry about what Liverpool do, your lot won’t be catching them anytime soon 😉


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## Papas1982 (Mar 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nice to see the Utd fans throwing the bottles at Simeone



it’s them all over - been that way for years , you know exactly how they are going to be - horrible tactics

Ultimately Utd didn’t create enough to win the match - they can blame the ref but the blame is with the players and the manager.

Ronaldo won’t be seen in the CL again now
		
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Not sure about CR7. 

If messi can vanish in France, he night get one more year.


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## Dando (Mar 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In true United style …… they missed
		
Click to expand...

Fernandes went down holding his face 🤣🤣


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## Bdill93 (Mar 16, 2022)

So who is going to be United's next manager? And who will be the marquee signing of the summer? Surely a Centre Back is on the cards?

Big changes needed. Barely contested a league title in almost 10 years!


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 16, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			So who is going to be United's next manager? And who will be the marquee signing of the summer? Surely a Centre Back is on the cards?

Big changes needed. Barely contested a league title in almost 10 years!
		
Click to expand...

This is a fairly fair description of where United are https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60759493

Not sure about marquee signings. If you are a top player, would you really be looking to go to United in the mess they are in at the moment and with no guarantee of CL football next season


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## Bdill93 (Mar 16, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			This is a fairly fair description of where United are https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60759493

Not sure about marquee signings. If you are a top player, would you really be looking to go to United in the mess they are in at the moment and with no guarantee of CL football next season
		
Click to expand...

Good article. 

Theres always someone who will go to United though, they've missed CL in the last 9 seasons and still signed players.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 16, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Good article.

Theres always someone who will go to United though, they've missed CL in the last 9 seasons and still signed players.
		
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I agree but you can't see any of the current crop of young marquee players like Haaland and others entertaining the prospect. So does that leave them looking for another older player like Ronaldho as a short term solution. Until there is stability and a recognition they aren't a PL winning side from fans and perhaps even the board the problems will continue


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## Orikoru (Mar 16, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			So who is going to be United's next manager? And who will be the marquee signing of the summer? Surely a Centre Back is on the cards?

Big changes needed. Barely contested a league title in almost 10 years!
		
Click to expand...

My bet is they'll sign Harry Kane and leave the defence as it is. Standard United stuff really.


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## Beezerk (Mar 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			My bet is they'll sign Harry Kane and leave the defence as it is. Standard United stuff really.
		
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Do you think he would really go to Man Utd? It would be in the same league as when Shearer signed for Newcastle and ended up winning sod all 😂


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## Orikoru (Mar 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Do you think he would really go to Man Utd? It would be in the same league as when Shearer signed for Newcastle and ended up winning sod all 😂
		
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I think he's probably fed of hanging around with us. City will be looking at Haaland I expect, or someone younger than Kane anyway. Liverpool won't be looking, so that only leaves United for him really. Could have his head turned by the club stature and the money, plus he's still probably more likely to win an FA Cup or a Europa League with them than he is with us going forward. He won't be looking abroad because he wants Shearer's Prem record.


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## GB72 (Mar 16, 2022)

There is always going to be an issue when you have a pricetag like Kane. You have probably 5 clubs in England that that could stomach that. City seem to be looking at Haaland now, Liverpool would not pay that much I suspect and currently do not really need him, Chelsea are under sanctions, Newcastle maybe but it may be years before that pays off with medals and so you have United. Abroad you only really have PSG and Real (who knows about what Barca can or cannot afford). Real want Mbappe so there you have it, in an over simplified way from an admitted non football expert. Kane really only has United or PSG as possible options.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			This is a fairly fair description of where United are https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60759493

Not sure about marquee signings. If you are a top player, would you really be looking to go to United in the mess they are in at the moment and with no guarantee of CL football next season
		
Click to expand...

Quite frankly when reading Phil McNulty I take everything he says with a massive pinch of salt. He is obsessed with Utd. Everything he writes is either an over reaction or an under reaction. If the price of pies went up a penny at OT  he would write a story. Personally I would sooner read what some of the UTD fans on here type.


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## Orikoru (Mar 16, 2022)

GB72 said:



			There is always going to be an issue when you have a pricetag like Kane. You have probably 5 clubs in England that that could stomach that. City seem to be looking at Haaland now, Liverpool would not pay that much I suspect and currently do not really need him, Chelsea are under sanctions, Newcastle maybe but it may be years before that pays off with medals and so you have United. Abroad you only really have PSG and Real (who knows about what Barca can or cannot afford). Real want Mbappe so there you have it, in an over simplified way from an admitted non football expert. Kane really only has United or PSG as possible options.
		
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This is what I mean. Man Utd are daft enough to throw the money our way, especially if Ronaldo and Cavani jack it in. And it could end up being Kane's only option other than staying with us.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2022)

Sums it up nicely


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## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503730610602483712


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## Bdill93 (Mar 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think he's probably fed of hanging around with us. City will be looking at Haaland I expect, or someone younger than Kane anyway. Liverpool won't be looking, so that only leaves United for him really. Could have his head turned by the club stature and the money, plus he's still probably more likely to win an FA Cup or a Europa League with them than he is with us going forward. He won't be looking abroad because he wants Shearer's Prem record.
		
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Maybe if United get Poch?

Not an easy market for Kane! If Conte stays next season, you could easily win a trophy!


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## fundy (Mar 16, 2022)

Big assumption Haaland goes to City, fair chance he ends up in Spain still and if he does City would turn their attention back to Kane in all likelihood


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## Orikoru (Mar 16, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Maybe if United get Poch?

Not an easy market for Kane! If Conte stays next season, you could easily win a trophy!
		
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Haha, Conte's not going to stay.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 16, 2022)

Love the bants! 😂


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## Bdill93 (Mar 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			Big assumption Haaland goes to City, fair chance he ends up in Spain still and if he does City would turn their attention back to Kane in all likelihood
		
Click to expand...

Haaland is a weird one for sure!

Real want Mbappe - have done for years, I dont see them going for him and Haaland. Maybe - but they do also have Benzema so its quite stacked up top for them.

Ive seen Barca linked but Haaland apparently wants mega money, not sure how they afford it! 

PSG would be a backwards step.. Only really leaves the prem as an option. 



Orikoru said:



			Haha, Conte's not going to stay. 

Click to expand...

Think he goes PSG if/ when Poch leaves?


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## fundy (Mar 16, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Haaland is a weird one for sure!

Real want Mbappe - have done for years, I dont see them going for him and Haaland. Maybe - but they do also have Benzema so its quite stacked up top for them.

Ive seen Barca linked but Haaland apparently wants mega money, not sure how they afford it!

PSG would be a backwards step.. Only really leaves the prem as an option.



Think he goes PSG if/ when Poch leaves?
		
Click to expand...


Expect todays Spotify sponsorship of Barca may mean they have more funds than people were expecting them to have

Also means Ek wont be buying Arsenal no doubt


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## Slime (Mar 16, 2022)

I'm hoping Ten Haag rather than Poch.
Poch just doesn't convince me in any way, shape or form.
As for players, no doubt the board will be basing purchases on shirt sales rather than necessity!


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## 4LEX (Mar 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm hoping Ten Haag rather than Poch.
Poch just doesn't convince me in any way, shape or form.
As for players, no doubt the board will be basing purchases on shirt sales rather than necessity! 

Click to expand...

Serious question on what basis does Tan Haag convince you? He's having a poor season with Ajax in a league that is even way below a third rate French league. Struggling to see off a poor PSV side and embarrassed at home in the CL last night. You could argue Stam at Feyenoord is doing better with his limited funds too.


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## Jensen (Mar 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Do you think he would really go to Man Utd? It would be in the same league as when Shearer signed for Newcastle and ended up winning sod all 😂
		
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Big difference Shearer is a Geordie, who let his heart rule his head.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 16, 2022)

Fish, put the bin bag down, lad.


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## 4LEX (Mar 16, 2022)

Looking forward to Arsenal v Liverpool! It'll be interesting to see how Arsenal play against a top side after some excellent performances. Will they do the usual vanishing act or prove the rebuild is going well?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2022)

😳


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## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Serious question on what basis does Tan Haag convince you? He's having a poor season with Ajax in a league that is even way below a third rate French league. Struggling to see off a poor PSV side and embarrassed at home in the CL last night. You could argue Stam at Feyenoord is doing better with his limited funds too.
		
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Did Stam leave OT under a cloud. Something in the back of my head says he did but for the life of me I cannot remember what. That said would he go back. I know it’s all hypothetical.


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## Slime (Mar 16, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Serious question on what basis does Tan Haag convince you? He's having a poor season with Ajax in a league that is even way below a third rate French league. Struggling to see off a poor PSV side and embarrassed at home in the CL last night. You could argue Stam at Feyenoord is doing better with his limited funds too.
		
Click to expand...

I currently thin k he's the lesser of two average managers.
If Tuchel enters the ring, however, that'd be a different ball game altogether.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			😳
		
Click to expand...

He's Alive!!!!!

I was concerned about you Tashy lad😉


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## 4LEX (Mar 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Did Stam leave OT under a cloud. Something in the back of my head says he did but for the life of me I cannot remember what. That said would he go back. I know it’s all hypothetical.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think it was a huge cloud, just Ferguson making a bad call at the time. To be fair Stam isn't good enough to get an interview for the Utd job, I just used him as an example as to why Tan Haag is vastly overrated. To appoint someone with zero experience in a top league, let alone the Premier League would be madness. He'd have to adjust to a higher quality league and go head to head against 4 of the best managers in the world and Arteta - who has done a great job turning around Arsenal.

Utd should get Poch or Tuchel.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Did Stam leave OT under a cloud. Something in the back of my head says he did but for the life of me I cannot remember what. That said would he go back. I know it’s all hypothetical.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...manchester-united-jaap-stam-ferguson-18484113

https://punditarena.com/football/paul-moore/jaap-stam-manchester-united-0/


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## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I don't think it was a huge cloud, just Ferguson making a bad call at the time. To be fair Stam isn't good enough to get an interview for the Utd job, I just used him as an example as to why Tan Haag is vastly overrated. To appoint someone with zero experience in a top league, let alone the Premier League would be madness. He'd have to adjust to a higher quality league and go head to head against 4 of the best managers in the world and Arteta - who has done a great job turning around Arsenal.

Utd should get Poch or Tuchel.
		
Click to expand...

United may be able to get quality players but I don't think they have the work rate,  Togetherness and team ethic that someone like poch would flurrish with 

Basically hard as it is to say need the Liverpool model and players ability / work rate ratio


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## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			United may be able to get quality players but I don't think they have the work rate,  Togetherness and team ethic that someone like poch would flurrish with

Basically hard as it is to say need the Liverpool model and players ability / work rate ratio
		
Click to expand...

I think re Liverpool and City the players believe in what they are doing. Am not sure the Utd players do. And am not convinced there all singing off the same song sheet.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 16, 2022)

9.5 for Mane there.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 16, 2022)

Needed the extra somersault and pike from Mane. Bang average dive for technical ability and low tariff


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## paddyc (Mar 16, 2022)

Is Andre Mariner a scouser? Ffs


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 16, 2022)

Sky seem desperate for us all to start watching womens football,yet when they go to the grounds there seems to be no one in the stands.
I’m guessing prices aren’t too steep either?
Flogging a dead horse imo.


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## adam6177 (Mar 16, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sky seem desperate for us all to start watching womens football,yet when they go to the grounds there seems to be no one in the stands.
I’m guessing prices aren’t too steep either?
Flogging a dead horse imo.
		
Click to expand...

One of the things that I don't like is that they often don't put WSL etc in the title, so I turn over to watch some football and it's not what I expected.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 16, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			One of the things that I don't like is that they often don't put WSL etc in the title, so I turn over to watch some football and it's not what I expected.
		
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Exactly


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## Junior (Mar 16, 2022)

Good game this.  Two very organised teams cancelling each other out.    Don't think it will be long before Salah comes on.


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## paddyc (Mar 16, 2022)

Nothing against  women's football but its never going to get decent crowds as the quality is just not there imo.Quite a few women's national sides including the USA a few years ago,when they were world champions have been beaten  by boys teams as young as 15. Not sure that Sky can keep throwing  money at a product that does generate enough  interest to rival the men's game.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 16, 2022)

Diaz lol
Liverpool now have the 3 best divers in the premiership 
TAA fantastic range of passing but can’t defend for toffee.
Ramsdale for England ? No thx


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## BrianM (Mar 16, 2022)

Ramsdale sold the pies there 🙈🙈


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## Orikoru (Mar 16, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			One of the things that I don't like is that they often don't put WSL etc in the title, so I turn over to watch some football and it's not what I expected.
		
Click to expand...

Tell me about it - I saw a headline a while back saying "Leicester sack manager and appoint Heskey." Nearly lost my mind until I realised they were on about the women's side. Bloody clickbait.


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## PieMan (Mar 16, 2022)

Ah well, the good ship Crisis FC still sails serenely on in the Champions League.


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## fundy (Mar 16, 2022)

And again despite a good first half we fold against a top 3 side  Pretty much gave up after it went 2-0 too rather than having a proper go

Fair play to Liverpool, too good even without Salah, makes for a fun title race at least. Not sure TAA would want to play Martinelli every week.....

Still think long term wed be better off finishing 5th not 4th but try telling that to our fanbase lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 16, 2022)

Tough game that , Arsenal no pushover at the moment and on that evidence will be the favourites for that 4th spot

Game turned on that save from Alisson then the mistake by Ramsdale at the near post. A little bit of quality from Firmino seals the game 

In other news Juventus got smashed at home and out of the CL


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## adam6177 (Mar 16, 2022)

Arsenal are a good side. Hope they get top 4, along with Chelsea.

Anyone but man utd and spurs.


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## davemc1 (Mar 16, 2022)

Brilliant by Liverpool.


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## Swingalot (Mar 16, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fish, put the bin bag down, lad. 

Click to expand...

I have to ask...???


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 16, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			I have to ask...???
		
Click to expand...

(1) Watch | Facebook 

Trying too hard?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Diaz lol
Liverpool now have the 3 best divers in the premiership
*TAA fantastic range of passing but can’t defend for toffee.*
Ramsdale for England ? No thx
		
Click to expand...

Not this again🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

He's just come up against one of the best wingers in the PL and kept a clean sheet.

Yes he got past him a couple of times, theres never been a full back thats never been ripped once or twice.

Considering you've played the game, you still keep pedalling this myth🤦🏼‍♂️

Our best 3 divers are still nowhere near the standard of Fernandes.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2022)

Another 3pts and a clean sheet 👌

Mane needs to stay on his feet though, he's much better than that. 

A tough game against a really good side. Arteta showing given time he'll turn things around.

I was impressed by Martinelli tonight, injured in the middle of the park, rubbed his foot, got up, hobbled, then noticed there was an attack on and covered 60mtrs quicker than Usain Bolt 🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Is Andre Mariner a scouser? Ffs
		
Click to expand...

I thought he was poor for both teams. I cant remember any where he favoured us, im sure you can😉 

That one where Xhaka fell over the ball because Henderson exhaled 3ft behind and he gave a Arsenal a FK😆


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## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			...
I was impressed by Martinelli tonight, injured in the middle of the park, rubbed his foot, got up, hobbled, then noticed there was an attack on and covered 60mtrs quicker than Usain Bolt 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

8.8 for style!


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## 4LEX (Mar 17, 2022)

Arsenal gave it their best and worked their socks off untill the second goal. Liverpool won it in second gear though.

Arteta has done the right thing in bombing Auba out and reduced Pepe to the fringes. He's obviously more suited to coaching younger players but with that comes the lack of experience in big matches and that's where they've been found out this season. They need a striker who can link play and score 20 goals plus, badly.

Looking at the run of games Arsenal have I'd be amazed if they got Top 4.


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## Junior (Mar 17, 2022)

Really enjoyed the game last night.  Thought Arsenal were superb and could have scored first before Liverpool showed their class in the 2nd half to take the points.

As a Man U fan , there are a few things that stand out about the top 4, and its something we could do well to address this Summer.

1. How the current top 4 work so hard off the ball and are much calmer on it. 

2. There are no egos on the pitch and the players seem to enjoy playing with one an other.  Watch Pogba, Ronaldo and Rashford and its a different story.

3. Our biggest 2 rivals are streets ahead of the rest of the prem right now and its testament to Klopp/Pep and how they have signed players on character as much as skill. 

Interesting Summer for Man U fans.  Needs to start with clarifying the position of the manager as soon as the season is done.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 17, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Diaz lol
Liverpool now have the 3 best divers in the premiership
TAA fantastic range of passing but can’t defend for toffee.
Ramsdale for England ? No thx
		
Click to expand...

Yes shocking dive by Mane, but the ref hardly gave him anything after that even some obvious fouls, 
Maybe that’s how they are dealing with divers, should still be yellow imo.
TAA stoped Martinelli just as much as he got past him I thought it was a great duel, plus Matip was fantastic on the cover.
But for all Martinellis good work they had nobody in the box.
Nice to see Firmino in the goals with a really good finish.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 17, 2022)

Junior said:



			Really enjoyed the game last night.  Thought Arsenal were superb and could have scored first before Liverpool showed their class in the 2nd half to take the points.

As a Man U fan , there are a few things that stand out about the top 4, and its something we could do well to address this Summer.

1. How the current top 4 work so hard off the ball and are much calmer on it. 

2. There are no egos on the pitch and the players seem to enjoy playing with one an other.  Watch Pogba, Ronaldo and Rashford and its a different story.

3. Our biggest 2 rivals are streets ahead of the rest of the prem right now and its testament to Klopp/Pep and how they have signed players on character as much as skill. 

Interesting Summer for Man U fans.  Needs to start with clarifying the position of the manager as soon as the season is done.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. It is interesting when opposing fans suggest "what decent player would actually want to go to Utd?". At end of day, all the best teams out there right now were relatively rubbish at one point in the not so distant history, so people have a short memory.

Certain clubs have huge global followings. Certain clubs have huge resources to financially reward the top players. Sure, 100% of top players will not want to go to Utd. However, some of the best players will not want to go to City or Liverpool either. 

They key to United is getting in management that instils faith again, generates excitement and a buzz. Big changes are needed in the playing squad, including getting rid of players. However, when Utd finally get it right in management, that can certainly provide an interest in some of the top players out there. They can feel part of something, feeling a big part to the return towards success. It simply depends what their own personal goals are. Can't comment on individuals like Kane and Haaland, but it wouldn't be the biggest shock in the world if one of them signed for Utd.

Furthermore, there are many fantastic players in the world. Even if every single one of them desires to play for Liverpool or City, clearly those clubs won't buy every single one of them. So, Utd will always be able to attract big players as they are still one of the top clubs in global football. It would also generally be considered they are at their worst now, yet still challenging for top 4.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2022)

Arsenal played well until Liverpool got the first goal. Terrible positioning by Ramsdale to allow that in at the near post. Thought Odegaard had a great game for Arsenal and caused Liverpool some real problems. Once Arsenal went 1-0 down it was always a big ask but there were plenty of positives but they have to find a way to get something from games with their top 4 rivals


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## Orikoru (Mar 17, 2022)

I personally think Man Utd will always be able to attract top players, because of the size of the club, the history, the stadium, and the money they can pay players of course. Even at their worst they're probably only 3 good signings away from challenging again.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 17, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I personally think Man Utd will always be able to attract top players, because of the size of the club, the history, the stadium, and the money they can pay players of course. Even at their worst they're probably only 3 good signings away from challenging again.
		
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I agree with most of this!

Just depends which 3 players you sign 
VVD
Salah 
Mbappe

Then yeah probably


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## Orikoru (Mar 17, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I agree with most of this!

Just depends which 3 players you sign 
VVD
Salah
Mbappe

Then yeah probably 

Click to expand...

Haha. Most crucially they need a good centre back and a good holding midfielder, as they have for several years. After that it depends if Ronaldo stays probably, but as I mentioned, I could see them replacing him with Kane and then they'd be something approaching a proper team again. I know that McTominay and Fred are much-maligned, but for me the issue is that they're both box-to-box players at heart, either one of them could play alongside a proper holding player and do well. Someone like Rice or Phillips for example would do wonders for them. As for centre backs, I don't really know who's out there and available in all fairness. If only they could harness the Eric Bailly that turns up and plays world class for 1 game per season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2022)

All the talk about Man Utd is everything I heard and said myself through 20 plus years as we as a club struggled on the pitch to get consistency and build up - we had a few fleating moments with Houllier then Rafa and then Rodgers - but they were nearly moments with the odd trophy win. It took a whole club philosophy change plus getting the right people into the club in the right roles - Edwards and Klopp being the two key appointments 

It’s now nearly 10 years since Utd’s last title and 6 years since their last trophy , it doesn’t take much for that to keep extending in the same way it did for us 

They can keep buying players and spending fortunes but they need to sort out of the field first - need to get in a good director of football first and then get the right manager. Once they agree on the way forward you get the players in that fit the style they want to play regardless of the name of the player And then build


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## Bdill93 (Mar 17, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All the talk about Man Utd is everything I heard and said myself through 20 plus years as we as a club struggled on the pitch to get consistency and build up - we had a few fleating moments with Houllier then Rafa and then Rodgers - but they were nearly moments with the odd trophy win. It took a whole club philosophy change plus getting the right people into the club in the right roles - Edwards and Klopp being the two key appointments

It’s now nearly 10 years since Utd’s last title and 6 years since their last trophy , it doesn’t take much for that to keep extending in the same way it did for us

They can keep buying players and spending fortunes but they need to sort out of the field first - need to get in a good director of football first and then get the right manager. Once they agree on the way forward you get the players in that fit the style they want to play regardless of the name of the player And then build
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely they are.

Ive said on here before, Woodward was the wrong man and he made all the wrong decisions. Scared to pick apart what Fergie left behind and he did not know how to run/ build a football club. 

Long may they rot though!


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## Swango1980 (Mar 17, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All the talk about Man Utd is everything I heard and said myself through 20 plus years as we as a club struggled on the pitch to get consistency and build up - we had a few fleating moments with Houllier then Rafa and then Rodgers - but they were nearly moments with the odd trophy win. It took a whole club philosophy change plus getting the right people into the club in the right roles - Edwards and Klopp being the two key appointments

It’s now nearly 10 years since Utd’s last title and 6 years since their last trophy , it doesn’t take much for that to keep extending in the same way it did for us

*They can keep buying players and spending fortunes but they need to sort out of the field first - need to get in a good director of football first and then get the right manager. Once they agree on the way forward you get the players in that fit the style they want to play regardless of the name of the player And then build*

Click to expand...

Yeah. Rio said it well the other night, when he said that when Fergie left, the player's were not that worried because they believed most of the success was basically down to the players. However, the season after he left, they quickly realised how wrong they were, and that the management were monumental to success.

We know the qualities many of the United team have now, and had over the last 10 years. However, not only are we not seeing virtually any of these players reaching close to their full potential, we are almost seeing the very worst of them week in, week out. The new manager will have a huge task on their hands. They'll need to decide which players are beyond repair, or which players can be saved and rejuvenated. Rashford has rapidly gone downhill since his charity work, almost like the attention he got has distracted him, or put him under more scrutiny and pressure since. The way Southgate used him at the Euro's, and that fateful penalty shootout could have been an absolute killer for him as well. Pogba has always had talent, but is clearly not an inspirational leader and if there is no-one to give him a kick up the backside, he just strolls about the pitch and does nothing. Even Bruno, came to United full of energy and quality. But, his attitude has descended into whinging, he doesn't trust his team mates and he too often tries the Hollywood ball.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 17, 2022)

Junior said:



			Really enjoyed the game last night.  Thought Arsenal were superb and could have scored first before Liverpool showed their class in the 2nd half to take the points.

As a Man U fan , there are a few things that stand out about the top 4, and its something we could do well to address this Summer.

1. How the current top 4 work so hard off the ball and are much calmer on it.

2. There are no egos on the pitch and the players seem to enjoy playing with one an other.  Watch Pogba, Ronaldo and Rashford and its a different story.

3. Our biggest 2 rivals are streets ahead of the rest of the prem right now and its testament to Klopp/Pep and how they have signed players on character as much as skill.

Interesting Summer for Man U fans.  Needs to start with clarifying the position of the manager as soon as the season is done.
		
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Watching last night Liverpool were everything Utd are not as you say.
There work rate is superb,ours is shocking.


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## Junior (Mar 17, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Watching last night Liverpool were everything Utd are not as you say.
There work rate is superb,ours is shocking.
		
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I was impressed by the organisation of Arsenal too.  In Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard they're great going forward.  They seem to have brought the best out of Lacazette.   It's similar situation to us in that they have off loaded their bad egg in Aubameyang.  Just we have a few more to get rid of. 

Bizarrely our best player recently is Fred.  He's been superb the past few games.


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## Orikoru (Mar 17, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504457564284719111
Walker is out, maybe this is the end of him. I think Dier deserves to be there ahead of Mings and Maguire personally. Guehi seems like a surprise - I thought Tomori would be ahead of him in the pecking order.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 17, 2022)

Junior said:



			I was impressed by the organisation of Arsenal too.  In Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard they're great going forward.  They seem to have brought the best out of Lacazette.   It's similar situation to us in that they have off loaded their bad egg in Aubameyang.  Just we have a few more to get rid of.

Bizarrely our best player recently is Fred.  He's been superb the past few games.
		
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Agreed the 3 but really don’t rate Lacazzete.
Definitely thought Arsenal looked solid ,Liverpool though ground them down and their class and depth shone through.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 17, 2022)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504457564284719111
Walker is out, maybe this is the end of him. I think Dier deserves to be there ahead of Mings and Maguire personally. Guehi seems like a surprise - I thought Tomori would be ahead of him in the pecking order.
		
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Am I the only one whos never heard of Guehi? 

Mings has always played well for England, deserves his spot on recent form too.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 17, 2022)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504457564284719111
Walker is out, maybe this is the end of him. I think Dier deserves to be there ahead of Mings and Maguire personally. Guehi seems like a surprise - I thought Tomori would be ahead of him in the pecking order.
		
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On form Maguire should be nowhere near the squad.
Southgate though hasn’t got the gonads to drop him


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## BiMGuy (Mar 17, 2022)

I presume Mings and Maguire are there to carry kit bags for the other players 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## Bdill93 (Mar 17, 2022)

We look a bit thin in the Winger department! 

Saka playing well, Sterling a mainstay (as deservedly so) Foden is awesome but not a classic "winger"

Not sure about Grealish being selected for this one.. not done a lot this year - but I suppose hes at city now so will always be picked. That and the United players just arent performing.

We wont be seeing Rice and Phillips together either! I imagine thats purely down to his long term injury though. 

Going to be a few interesting starting 11's coming up!


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## Swango1980 (Mar 17, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			We look a bit thin in the Winger department!

Saka playing well, Sterling a mainstay (as deservedly so) Foden is awesome but not a classic "winger"

Not sure about Grealish being selected for this one.. not done a lot this year - but I suppose hes at city now so will always be picked. *That and the United players just arent performing.*

We wont be seeing Rice and Phillips together either! I imagine thats purely down to his long term injury though.

Going to be a few interesting starting 11's coming up!
		
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Although Sancho has recently started to improve on his performances, despite being in an underperforming side. I'd have thought he'd be worth a shout, would have been less surprised if he was in the squad and Maguire out (although Maguire seems to play better for England than Utd).


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## Bdill93 (Mar 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Although Sancho has recently started to improve on his performances, despite being in an underperforming side. I'd have thought he'd be worth a shout, would have been less surprised if he was in the squad and Maguire out (although Maguire seems to play better for England than Utd).
		
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I just totally forgot about Sancho


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## BrianM (Mar 17, 2022)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504457564284719111
Walker is out, maybe this is the end of him. I think Dier deserves to be there ahead of Mings and Maguire personally. Guehi seems like a surprise - I thought Tomori would be ahead of him in the pecking order.
		
Click to expand...

Walker will be back, strange why he's not in?
I'd have thought Maguire would of being dropped.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 17, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I just totally forgot about Sancho 

Click to expand...

Easily done. I've also forgotten about Greenwood now as well. I wonder how long it will take for the allegations against him to be "proved" one way or the other? He could be missing for a very long time, regardless of the final outcome.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Easily done. I've also forgotten about Greenwood now as well. I wonder how long it will take for the allegations against him to be "proved" one way or the other? He could be missing for a very long time, regardless of the final outcome.
		
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When you consider that both Everton and Man City have been missing a player each for most of this season and not much nearer to trials taking place, you can imagine it will be a very good while indeed before Greenwood's case gets looked at, assuming these things work in date order.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Easily done. I've also forgotten about Greenwood now as well. I wonder how long it will take for the allegations against him to be "proved" one way or the other? He could be missing for a very long time, regardless of the final outcome.
		
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I knew someones name was missing! 

Greenwood - the least said the better I think! He needs to fade away into the distance and never return. Cant see a way back.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When you consider that both Everton and Man City have been missing a player each for most of this season and not much nearer to trials taking place, you can imagine it will be a very good while indeed before Greenwood's case gets looked at, *assuming these things work in date order*.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I do not work in law. However, I'm sure it is not in date order. I guess it is largely down to how long the prosecution needs to put their case together? I suspect in some cases this could take a very long time, to ensure their case is robust. In other cases, maybe not so long, if they do not need to take as much time to gather the evidence, etc.

However, either way, in these types of cases I'm sure it takes some time for the prosecution to build their case. So there is probably no light at the end of the tunnel in terms of seeing when that final decision will be made.


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## DanFST (Mar 17, 2022)

So unfortunate Bowen is injured, he deserved a call up.


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## Swingalot (Mar 17, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Am I the only one whos never heard of Guehi?
		
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Exactly why I feared him being called up! Under the radar was good for us. 

We bought him off Chelsea for £20m+ at start of season, England youth captain through all of the age grades. He has been superb for us. Fairly quick for a CB and good with the ball at feet. He is a leader and has recently become our captain. Only weakness for me is he is not as dominant in the air as some, but for England that is probably not as big as issue as most countries don't play direct.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 17, 2022)

Maguire is in the England squad. What planet is Southgate on. Seriously. He has took out Sancho and Walker. Walker I don’t get. For a manager who don’t like defenders bombing forward. What’s his thought process behind that. Sancho. What has he done wrong? He is part of our future.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 17, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Exactly why I feared him being called up! Under the radar was good for us.

We bought him off Chelsea for £20m+ at start of season, England youth captain through all of the age grades. He has been superb for us. Fairly quick for a CB and good with the ball at feet. He is a leader and has recently become our captain. Only weakness for me is he is not as dominant in the air as some, but for England that is probably not as big as issue as most countries don't play direct.
		
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Want to swap him for Wan Bissaka?


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## Swango1980 (Mar 17, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Maguire is in the England squad. What planet is Southgate on. Seriously. He has took out Sancho and Walker. Walker I don’t get. For a manager who don’t like defenders bombing forward. What’s his thought process behind that. *Sancho. What has he done wrong?* He is part of our future.
		
Click to expand...

What has he done wrong? Southgate had no faith in him to play much part in the Euro's, and then made the bizarre decision to bring him and Rashford on for the final penalty shootout, which ended up being a big failure. I just think he doesn't fancy him at all. Sterling is the golden boy, and probably Foden as well and maybe Grealish (after a lot of pressure from fans and media when he wasn't so keen to pick him). Rashford's form certainly does not warrant him being anywhere near the England squad, but there seems to be a lot more reasons to put Sancho in the squad at least after the last month or 2 of performances.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 17, 2022)

DanFST said:



			So unfortunate Bowen is injured, he deserved a call up.
		
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Think he would have got it as well


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2022)

The BBC pundits “predictions”


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## Swingalot (Mar 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Want to swap him for Wan Bissaka?
		
Click to expand...

Nope, but we'd have him back. Just move the decimal place left to get his value 🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

Team news out for tonight. Pickford out ill so Begovic in. A relief as Pickford always gets psyched out by abuse from Toon fans.

I don't understand not playing Calvert Lewin though 🤷‍♂️


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## putterman60 (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Team news out for tonight. Pickford out ill so Begovic in. A relief as Pickford always gets psyched out by abuse from Toon fans.

I don't understand not playing Calvert Lewin though 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...


oh well every game now is huge for the toffees.......... Calvert Lewin will come on as ssub and get a hat trick ................ and Newcastle will win 5-3 

3pts needed badly tonight


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## Jimaroid (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't understand not playing Calvert Lewin though 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

He might be better as a sub at the moment, with the illness recovery and not really shown a great deal of spark since coming back from injury anyway. 

It’d nice if we just give them a game but I’m not feeling very hopeful at all.


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## Jimaroid (Mar 17, 2022)

Oh no. I’ve just seen our back 3 🤢🤮🤢


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## Tashyboy (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Team news out for tonight. Pickford out ill so Begovic in. A relief as Pickford always gets psyched out by abuse from Toon fans.

I don't understand not playing Calvert Lewin though 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Talking to the grandsproggs headteacher. He’s an Evertonian. He is a bit narked the fans are getting on the players backs. He reckons it’s tough enough for them as it is. He thinks if they get relegated then give them some grief.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Walker will be back, strange why he's not in?
I'd have thought Maguire would of being dropped.
		
Click to expand...

Plenty of youth in there so good to see Southgate continuing to give younger players a taste of international football. It is something we seemed to have done better in the last few years and seems to mirror much more what the likes of Germany, France and Spain have done for a while. One thing playing U21 but playing against senior sides and different types of styles can only help their development.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			oh well every game now is huge for the toffees.......... Calvert Lewin will come on as ssub and get a hat trick ................ and Newcastle will win 5-3

3pts needed badly tonight
		
Click to expand...

Badly doesn't cover it, it's massive. I'm in the house with 2 Toon fans, the atmosphere is tense. For a change, I'm the one on edge 😢

Frank has just explained that DCL has been ill this week and so isn't strong enough to start. Let's hope Richie has got his game head on tonight 🙏


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## Jimaroid (Mar 17, 2022)

Not enjoying all these corners toon are getting. Can’t keep this up.  😬


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## Yorkhacker (Mar 17, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 41867


The BBC pundits “predictions”
		
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Not sure what point you are trying to make. It's not the end of the season yet, so none of them are wrong... yet.


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

Some save from Areola that, but Antonio got to do better at the other end


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## putterman60 (Mar 17, 2022)

Watching Everton tonight reminds me of watching my local team Mansfield Town FC back in 2008 when they were relegated to the Conference ...................there lots of comments people can add to this .....................


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## BiMGuy (Mar 17, 2022)

Have Amazon turned the crowd noise off?


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

game on for the Hammers


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Not enjoying all these corners toon are getting. Can’t keep this up.  😬
		
Click to expand...

We've been terrifying all season at corners. Just put it on the edge of the 6 yd box, that's all any opposition team needs to do.

We don't have any control of the ball so far, it's like basketball. Richarlison just isn't a lone striker either, the ball doesn't stick, he doesn't bring other players in. Not having a replacement for DCL has cost us massively this season. I'd rather one of the young lads played up top rather than Richarlison or Rondon. Give one of them a go.


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## Jimaroid (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd rather one of the young lads played up top rather than Richarlison or Rondon. Give one of them a go.
		
Click to expand...

Gray’s been disappointing too. Iwobi is working hard but making too many mistakes. Townsend does at least get balls in the box. 

Absolute scenes at the moment. Size of those bolt cutters. Trust a Scouser to find those laying about. 😂


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## nickjdavis (Mar 17, 2022)

should have left the bloke there and got on with the game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Gray’s been disappointing too. Iwobi is working hard but making too many mistakes. Townsend does at least get balls in the box.

Absolute scenes at the moment. Size of those bolt cutters. Trust a Scouser to find those laying about. 😂
		
Click to expand...

No idea why they are showing the muppet. It gives him the publicity he wants 😡.

Iwobi has no end product, I'd hook him now and bring Townsend on. Get some balls over. Gray has been disappointing but he has credit in the bank. I'd give him another 20 minutes and then get Alli on.


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## putterman60 (Mar 17, 2022)

WTF if anyone is not watching the Everton game a fan has tierapped hinself to tthe goalpost


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

geez if you have to watch Richarlison act like that I can see why youd tie yourself to the post lol


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## Stuart_C (Mar 17, 2022)

Richarlison😂😂😂😂😂


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## BiMGuy (Mar 17, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			WTF if anyone is not watching the Everton game a fan has tierapped hinself to tthe goalpost
		
Click to expand...

Good job he didn’t pull the cable tie too tight given how long it took them to remove it.


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## Jimaroid (Mar 17, 2022)

Time to get Richi off. I’m not sure what he’s bringing to the team any more, he’s turned into a farce of a player.


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## Bazzatron (Mar 17, 2022)

That guy kicking him saw the opportunity for a lifetime ban and was all over it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Time to get Richi off. I’m not sure what he’s bringing to the team any more, he’s turned into a farce of a player.
		
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Definitely one to move on in the summer if an offer comes in.

Here's one for you, when was the last time you saw one of our full backs over lapping? September, October? We really need to get that side of our game going again.

Edit, Seamus must have heard me 😆. More please.


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## adam6177 (Mar 17, 2022)

I can only assume that lampard has asked the boys to be dirty/niggly/cheeky/streetwise.... Never seen the toffees act like this before. I guess backs against the wall time.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 17, 2022)

I can’t believe there are teams below Everton. I thought Leeds were poor but this Everton team are awful.

I’d be embarrassed watching them throw themselves on the floor if they were my team.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 17, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I can only assume that lampard has asked the boys to be dirty/niggly/cheeky/streetwise.... Never seen the toffees act like this before. I guess backs against the wall time.
		
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It’s probably the limit of Lampard’s tactical knowledge.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 17, 2022)

That should be a red for Allan.


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## adam6177 (Mar 17, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			That should be a red for Allan.
		
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Professional foul at a guess.


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

so inconsistent.......................................


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## Tashyboy (Mar 17, 2022)

putterman60 said:



			Watching Everton tonight reminds me of watching my local team Mansfield Town FC back in 2008 when they were relegated to the Conference ...................there lots of comments people can add to this .....................

Click to expand...

Two players from that season played for me when I was manager of the U14’s Mansfield youth league rep squad. Connor Higginson and Nick Langford. Both quality player. Nick Langford was an exceptional player


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			That should be a red for Allan.
		
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Got there eventually


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## Jimaroid (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Here's one for you, when was the last time you saw one of our full backs over lapping? September, October? We really need to get that side of our game going again.
		
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No idea. We’ve played in so many different formations it’s impossible to recall.

Anyway. There we go. Atwell kills us in a VAR overturn. Isn’t that the first one in the league this season? ‘s sake!


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 17, 2022)

Suddenly Atwell realises he can send refs to the monitor, unlike last saturday and the Kane one on Robbo plus others. That was the least of the 3 that could have been reds out of them all.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 17, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			No idea. We’ve played in so many different formations it’s impossible to recall.

Anyway. There we go. Atwell kills us in a VAR overturn. Isn’t that the first one in the league this season? ‘s sake!
		
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Despite what the commentary are saying. It was a straight red all day long. A professional foul with both feet off the ground 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			so inconsistent.......................................
		
Click to expand...

If that is a red then hopefully that will be a template for the rest of the season. Game after game you see City and liverpool midfielders deliberately breaking up attacks with tackles like that. They get a yellow, nothing more.

Another decision by an on field ref matching the var recommendation. Why bother asking them to view it? Still, it keeps the 100% record going 😡


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## nickjdavis (Mar 17, 2022)

i reckon 11 minutes of time added on...


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## Piece (Mar 17, 2022)

That protestor wasn't very bright, picking a place that no-one would notice him...the goal Everton are attacking 🤣


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			i reckon 11 minutes of time added on...
		
Click to expand...

well 8 mins to cut the idiot out and 3+ mins for the VAR, should be more really


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			i reckon 11 minutes of time added on...
		
Click to expand...

14


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			i reckon 11 minutes of time added on...
		
Click to expand...

14 apparently


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

Piece said:



			That protestor wasn't very bright, picking a place that no-one would notice him...the goal Everton are attacking 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Nearly, it was the other end 😁


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## Piece (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nearly, it was the other end 😁
		
Click to expand...

Oh yeah 😳🤣👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

Piece said:



			Oh yeah 😳🤣👍
		
Click to expand...

It shows how stupid the bloke was 😆


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## Jimaroid (Mar 17, 2022)

Lol.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 17, 2022)

Take a bow son


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

30m worth there in a nutshell 

oh Alex Iwobiiiiiiiiiiii


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## adam6177 (Mar 17, 2022)

What a goal. God I love football.


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## nickjdavis (Mar 17, 2022)

how have Everton taken 2 minutes to take a goal kick...this should got to 106minutes


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## davemc1 (Mar 17, 2022)

it was fun while it lasted I suppose 😢


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

I've only ever had good things to say about Iwobi 😳. 

A CF who brought others into the game, a midfielder running past the CF. Finally.


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've only ever had good things to say about Iwobi 😳.

A CF who brought others into the game, a midfielder running past the CF. Finally.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣


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## Jimaroid (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've only ever had good things to say about Iwobi 😳.

A CF who brought others into the game, a midfielder running past the CF. Finally.
		
Click to expand...

Getting Richi off was what did it. 😂


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

Decent warm up for Extra Time in the West Ham game


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## Jimaroid (Mar 17, 2022)

Jammy win, awful game, even worse refereeing throughout. Football is great.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 17, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			it was fun while it lasted I suppose 😢
		
Click to expand...

keep the faith.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If that is a red then hopefully that will be a template for the rest of the season. Game after game you see City and liverpool midfielders deliberately breaking up attacks with tackles like that. They get a yellow, nothing more.

Another decision by an on field ref matching the var recommendation. Why bother asking them to view it? Still, it keeps the 100% record going 😡
		
Click to expand...

That’s a red imo.
And should be for any other player doing the same thing.
They need to change the rule.!
How can hacking someone down like that and taking your shirt off get the same punishment?
Shocking game .
I thought Richarlason looked a decent player a while ago but that was embarrassing


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a red imo.
And should be for any other player doing the same thing.
They need to change the rule.!
How can hacking someone down like that and taking your shirt off get the same punishment?
Shocking game .
I thought Richarlason looked a decent player a while ago but that was embarrassing
		
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I've agreed with you on this point previously and am happy to do so again. He had no intention of playing the ball, there is a chance of injury to the opposing player. My gripe is that refs don't show red for that on a consistent basis. I'd be happy if they did but cherry picking like that isn't right.

I think Richarlison wants away, his attitude is awful. I'd happily accept any bid come the summer. I'm worried his behaviour is rubbing off on Gordon. He is going down far too easily and is better than that.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've agreed with you on this point previously and am happy to do so again. He had no intention of playing the ball, there is a chance of injury to the opposing player. My gripe is that refs don't show red for that on a consistent basis. I'd be happy if they did but cherry picking like that isn't right.

I think Richarlison wants away, his attitude is awful. I'd happily accept any bid come the summer. I'm worried his behaviour is rubbing off on *Gordon. He is going down far too easily *and is better than that.
		
Click to expand...

I noticed that a few weeks ago. Loads of ability, I like him but he needs to be knocking the diving/going down easy on the head.

I thought it was a yellow, but soon as he went the screen it was never getting upheld.

Another one to keep the 0 upheld decisions going. I wonder who’ll be the token where the decision is upheld🤔🤔


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I noticed that a few weeks ago. Loads of ability, I like him but he needs to be knocking the diving/going down easy on the head.
		
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There were times he went down tonight when he was in good positions, that really irritates. Hopefully someone will get hold of him and tell him to cut it out.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've agreed with you on this point previously and am happy to do so again. He had no intention of playing the ball, there is a chance of injury to the opposing player. My gripe is that refs don't show red for that on a consistent basis. I'd be happy if they did but cherry picking like that isn't right.

I think Richarlison wants away, his attitude is awful. I'd happily accept any bid come the summer. I'm worried his behaviour is rubbing off on Gordon. He is going down far too easily and is better than that.
		
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I agree the refs are very inconsistent that’s why a rule change is the only way.
They are making their own problems worse by inconsistent decisions .
People inc the Everton fans think “ you don’t know what your doing”

if he thinks playing like that will get him a top move he’s deluded.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 17, 2022)

If Iwobi is the answer, what the hell is the question?


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

Brilliant from West Ham, some effort to beat Sevilla over 2 legs. Yarmolenko again 

theyve got to fancy their chances in the Europa now


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			If Iwobi is the answer, what the hell is the question? 

Click to expand...

Whats the only decent bit of transfer business Arsenal did in 5+ years?


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## pendodave (Mar 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			Brilliant from West Ham, some effort to beat Sevilla over 2 legs. Yarmolenko again 

theyve got to fancy their chances in the Europa now
		
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So wonderful for everyone who follows the club.
I realise that for many, the Europa is something to be swerved, but we've really embraced it.
There's something to be said for only getting into Europe every now and then.  I think we probably savour the moment more than most.


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## fundy (Mar 17, 2022)

pendodave said:



			So wonderful for everyone who follows the club.
I realise that for many, the Europa is something to be swerved, but we've really embraced it.
There's something to be said for only getting into Europe every now and then.  I think we probably savour the moment more than most.
		
Click to expand...

Considering you dont have the biggest of squads youve proved an awful lot of people wrong in competing on two fronts, in Europe and still performing in the prem. Have several West Ham friends, would love to see you go all the way for their sakes. 

On the plus side if you get to the final you wont have to go halfway round the world to get stuffed by Chelsea 😥😥😥


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## Stuart_C (Mar 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			Brilliant from West Ham, some effort to beat Sevilla over 2 legs. Yarmolenko again 

theyve got to fancy their chances in the Europa now
		
Click to expand...

Looking at what’s left, there’s a good chance of them winning it now with a good draw.


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## Fade and Die (Mar 17, 2022)

Rangers please. 😁


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## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			Whats the only decent bit of transfer business Arsenal did in 5+ years? 

Click to expand...

Wenger to Retirement/FIFA?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2022)

Awful scenes at Goodison 

As the police take a supporter back to his seat


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2022)

pendodave said:



			So wonderful for everyone who follows the club.
I realise that for many, the Europa is something to be swerved, but we've really embraced it.
There's something to be said for only getting into Europe every now and then.  I think we probably savour the moment more than most.
		
Click to expand...

It’s was an outstanding result to her past Seville - Barcelona next


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## DanFST (Mar 18, 2022)

West Ham won. 

I'm hungover. 

I've never seen anything like this.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 18, 2022)

•Just a reminder that today is The Champions League Draw. BT Sport.
•For Manchester United fans, BBC 1, Homes Under the Hammer…
•Dion Dublin visits the village of Kiveton Park, just outside Sheffield, to see a three-bed semi on a corner plot. Martin Roberts is in the Mackworth area of Derby to view a four-bed detached house with some layout challenges downstairs. Martel Maxwell is in the Yorkshire village of Pool in Wharfdale, just north of Leeds, to see a two-bed mid terrace with bags of character and charm


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2022)

CL draw 

Chelsea vs Real Madrid 
Man City vs Atletico Madrid
Villarreal vs Bayern Munich
Benfica vs Liverpool


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2022)

Semi Final 

Man City/Atletico Vs Chelsea/ Real Madrid 
Benfica/Liverpool vs Villareal/Bayern


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## Bdill93 (Mar 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Semi Final

Man City/Atletico Vs Chelsea/ Real Madrid
Benfica/Liverpool vs Villareal/Bayern
		
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Liverpool v Bayern would be a class fixture


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## adam6177 (Mar 18, 2022)

I hope Liverpool can progress to the final again... And of the possible opponents, I'd take real Madrid.

I hate facing English opponents in Europe, especially ones as good as city and Chelsea..... And the thought of losing against the shenanigans of atletico doesn't make me happy


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Liverpool v Bayern would be a class fixture
		
Click to expand...

Gotta beat Benfica 1st. 

Though might book flights to Paris just incase.....


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## AliMc (Mar 18, 2022)

Was going to listen to a bit of Wolves/Leeds tonight but just found it's Clinton Morrison so it looks like it's going to have to be Doc Martin on the box instead


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 18, 2022)

pendodave said:



			So wonderful for everyone who follows the club.
I realise that for many, the Europa is something to be swerved, but we've really embraced it.
There's something to be said for only getting into Europe every now and then.  I think we probably savour the moment more than most.
		
Click to expand...

Reminds me of my own clubs endeavours in the Europa Cup and great effort with a limited squad. The downside as Fulham found was fatigue and injuries can have an impact on PL performances, especially with travel and lack of recovery time. I'd love to see West Ham do well. They are definitely a club on the rise and as you say have embraced their European adventure


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## adam6177 (Mar 18, 2022)

AliMc said:



			Was going to listen to a bit of Wolves/Leeds tonight but just found it's Clinton Morrison so it looks like it's going to have to be Doc Martin on the box instead
		
Click to expand...

Was talking about this at work today, consensus was that everyone likes Daren Fletcher as a commentator.... But I cannot stand carra/Neville/Tyler/savage/mcmanaman/shearer.    I don't mind these guys as pundits, but their bias ruins their commentary for me.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Gotta beat Benfica 1st.

Though might book flights to Paris just incase.....
		
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Are they still offering free changes to flights due to Covid? If so, you could always change them to take Mrs StuC somewhere nice in the event Liverpool don't make it through.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Are they still offering free changes to flights due to Covid? If so, you could always change them to take Mrs StuC somewhere nice in the event Liverpool don't make it through.
		
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Not sure Stu would fancy Paris if it is full of Mancs or cockneys 😂


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## Swango1980 (Mar 18, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Was talking about this at work today, consensus was that everyone likes Daren Fletcher as a commentator.... But I cannot stand carra/Neville/Tyler/savage/mcmanaman/shearer.    I don't mind these guys as pundits, but their bias ruins their commentary for me.
		
Click to expand...

I don't mind a little bias if they show it, shows off a bit of personality. Not as if it is as strong as the guys that did fan zone commentary (not sure of that still exists). I'd hate that.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 18, 2022)

As a pairing I think Micah and Keane are streets ahead of others.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 18, 2022)

Do Wolves and Leeds have overs on having more injury time than the Everton Newcastle game?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Are they still offering free changes to flights due to Covid? If so, you could always change them to take Mrs StuC somewhere nice in the event Liverpool don't make it through.
		
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I'm not too sure, but i book these trips to get away from Mrs C🤣🤣


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 18, 2022)

Have they changed the rules on substitutes? I thought during Covid it was put up to 5 subs but then returned to three. Leeds have just made their 4th substitution in the match against Wolves.

Greenwood on for Bamford after 23 minutes.
Koch on for LLorente after 40 mintues.
Cresswell on for Klich after 45+9 minutes
Klaesson on for Meslier after 55 minutes.

Tried Googling it but everything I can find still says 3 subs per team. What am I missing?


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## BiMGuy (Mar 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Have they changed the rules on substitutes? I thought during Covid it was put up to 5 subs but then returned to three. Leeds have just made their 4th substitution in the match against Wolves.

Greenwood on for Bamford after 23 minutes.
Koch on for LLorente after 40 mintues.
Cresswell on for Klich after 45+9 minutes
Klaesson on for Meslier after 55 minutes.

Tried Googling it but everything I can find still says 3 subs per team. What am I missing?
		
Click to expand...

Cresswell was on because of Klich having concussion I presume.


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## fundy (Mar 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Have they changed the rules on substitutes? I thought during Covid it was put up to 5 subs but then returned to three. Leeds have just made their 4th substitution in the match against Wolves.

Greenwood on for Bamford after 23 minutes.
Koch on for LLorente after 40 mintues.
Cresswell on for Klich after 45+9 minutes
Klaesson on for Meslier after 55 minutes.

Tried Googling it but everything I can find still says 3 subs per team. What am I missing?
		
Click to expand...


guessing a concussion sub but not seen most of the game


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## srixon 1 (Mar 18, 2022)

As a Leeds fan (my dads fault), I can see why Man Urinals got shot of James. The ball just pings off his feet.


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## fundy (Mar 18, 2022)

Only seen 10 mins gone from 2-0 wolves to 2-2 and a red card lol. game on as they say.......


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## Piece (Mar 18, 2022)

Oooh, this is getting interesting now!


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not too sure, but i book these trips to get away from Mrs C🤣🤣
		
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That's a tough decision to make. Would you rather spend time with Mrs C or time away from her watching Man City v Bayern in the CL final?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not sure Stu would fancy Paris if it is full of Mancs or cockneys 😂
		
Click to expand...

I wont mind as we'll be playing them😉


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a tough decision to make. Would you rather spend time with Mrs C or time away from her watching Man City v Bayern in the CL final? 

Click to expand...

No brainer, she'd understand😁


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			Only seen 10 mins gone from 2-0 wolves to 2-2 and a red card lol. game on as they say.......
		
Click to expand...

Guess who backed Wolves🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 18, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Cresswell was on because of Klich having concussion I presume.
		
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fundy said:



			guessing a concussion sub but not seen most of the game
		
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks both. I only had it on in the background while I was sorting out dinner so must have missed it.


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## srixon 1 (Mar 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Ok, thanks both. I only had it on in the background while I was sorting out dinner so must have missed it.
		
Click to expand...

It was concussion sub and he also had a cut to the head.


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## fundy (Mar 18, 2022)

worst celebration ever lol


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## BiMGuy (Mar 18, 2022)




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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2022)

Poor decision from Friend to book Jimenez for a coming together, I really do not know what he expected Jimenez to do. Sending off changes the game.

i think @Bazzatron can safely put his passport away for next season.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Poor decision from Friend to book Jimenez for a coming together, I really do not know what he expected Jimenez to do. Sending off changes the game.

i think @Bazzatron can safely put his passport away for next season.
		
Click to expand...

100% 
Ridiculous decision Good exciting game though


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## pokerjoke (Mar 19, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			As a Leeds fan (my dads fault), I can see why Man Urinals got shot of James. The ball just pings off his feet.
		
Click to expand...

Not good enough for Utd but certainly good enough for Leeds


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 19, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504238897877954560
Why is Arteta crying about fixtures ? 

Arsenal have only played about 5 times since Jan and any games being squeezed in now is due to to Covid cancelled games they did


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## Bazzatron (Mar 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Poor decision from Friend to book Jimenez for a coming together, I really do not know what he expected Jimenez to do. Sending off changes the game.

i think @Bazzatron can safely put his passport away for next season.
		
Click to expand...

Never ever a sending off. However, Friend wasn't responsible for the defence absolutely bricking themselves and bottling it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Poor decision from Friend to book Jimenez for a coming together, I really do not know what he expected Jimenez to do. Sending off changes the game.

i think @Bazzatron can safely put his passport away for next season.
		
Click to expand...

I agree. Two players committed to the ball. If that wasn't the keeper involved and two outfield players it would be seen as a straight 50/50 challenge. No intent and not dangerous (imo)


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## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Never ever a sending off. However, Friend wasn't responsible for the defence absolutely bricking themselves and bottling it.
		
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You're right about your defence, though on the balance of play and probability, had he not been sent  you dont fold.

I may be talking through my pocket though


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## Bazzatron (Mar 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You're right about your defence, though on the balance of play and probability, had he not been sent  you dont fold.

I may be talking through my pocket though
		
Click to expand...

No you're right, we go on to win comfortably. But a 2-0 lead against a team who have no confidence, we should be seeing it out.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 19, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			No you're right, we go on to win comfortably. But a 2-0 lead against a team who have no confidence, we should be seeing it out.
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant game for the armchair fan. You should have seen it out and the defending after the first goal was panic ridden and not enough control in possession. Still a decent season and if you can get a run together Europe isn't out of the equation


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## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2022)

Just heard Steven Gerrard's interview with Des Kelly after todays game, another MOTM performance from Gerrard😉


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## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2022)

City have been poor for the last month or so. They have lost there tempo.


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## AmandaJR (Mar 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			City have been poor for the last month or so. They have lost there tempo.
		
Click to expand...

I was just saying the same. Just something lacking - but when you have a Foden


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## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I was just saying the same. Just something lacking - but when you have a Foden 

Click to expand...

Worrying thing is, it’s that time of season you would love to see your team getting some form.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 20, 2022)

FA Cup Semis

Man City vs Forest/Liverpool

Chelsea vs Palace


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## Stuart_C (Mar 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FA Cup Semis

Man City vs Forest/Liverpool

Chelsea vs Palace
		
Click to expand...

Who are Everton Playing?


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## Dando (Mar 20, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Who are Everton Playing?
		
Click to expand...

the kings arms 3rd team


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 20, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Who are Everton Playing?
		
Click to expand...

Dog and Duck in the FA Vase

This has been a cracking FA Cup tie - not sure how VAR have allowed that , looks offside


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 20, 2022)

Forest have enough chances to win this. Been a great cup tie to watch though.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Forest have enough chances to win this. Been a great cup tie to watch though.
		
Click to expand...

Should Liverpool go through the 10th and 16th of April are looking very tasty.


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## fundy (Mar 20, 2022)

Shame to see the predictable proceed and Forest and Boro both go out, been a breath of fresh air in the cup this year those 2 championship sides


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			Shame to see the predictable proceed and Forest and Boro both go out, been a breath of fresh air in the cup this year those 2 championship sides
		
Click to expand...

Forest and Boro both knocking on the Championship play off door. Both playing good football but not sure how strong their squads would be for the PL. Wouldn't fancy playing either in the play offs


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## hairball_89 (Mar 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Should Liverpool go through the 10th and 16th of April are looking very tasty.
		
Click to expand...

I'm working on both days. I write the rotas. I'm not pleased with myself. Terrible planning!


----------



## backwoodsman (Mar 20, 2022)

As a lifelong Forest fan, before the match I'd said I just didnt want them to be humiliated. Obviously I'd have liked a win but I said I'd accept a one - nil defeat to a lucky goal in the last ten minutes.  It just happened 3 minutes early.  Thought we acquitted ourselves well. Now we can concentrate on the league. Yoooooooooo Reddddddds.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 20, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			As a lifelong Forest fan, before the match I'd said I just didnt want them to be humiliated. Obviously I'd have liked a win but I said I'd accept a one - nil defeat to a lucky goal in the last ten minutes.  It just happened 3 minutes early.  Thought we acquitted ourselves well. Now we can concentrate on the league. Yoooooooooo Reddddddds.
		
Click to expand...

You played well. Games in hand in the league too so hopefully you'll get a play off spot.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			I'm working on both days. I write the rotas. I'm not pleased with myself. Terrible planning!
		
Click to expand...

😂
Guess who is on holiday 😖


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## fundy (Mar 20, 2022)

I see Barcas promising youngster Aubameyang tearing up El Classico tonight. Good to see hes earning the wages we pay him again now


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## fundy (Mar 20, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Forest and Boro both knocking on the Championship play off door. Both playing good football but not sure how strong their squads would be for the PL. Wouldn't fancy playing either in the play offs
		
Click to expand...


If youre playing anyone in the play offs you wont fancy it the form youd be going into them with!!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			If youre playing anyone in the play offs you wont fancy it the form youd be going into them with!!!!
		
Click to expand...

We'll be long promoted by then. I really think both Boro and Forest will be those form teams that hit the play-offs in the best form at the end of the season. Sometimes best to get in there by coming up on the rails rather than hanging about there


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## Neilds (Mar 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dog and Duck in the FA Vase

This has been a cracking FA Cup tie - not sure how VAR have allowed that , looks offside
		
Click to expand...

No VAR in the lower leagues, only the Premier League.  Personally I think they should have disabled it in all fixtures to make it a level playing field.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 21, 2022)

Neilds said:



			No VAR in the lower leagues, only the Premier League.  Personally I think they should have disabled it in all fixtures to make it a level playing field.
		
Click to expand...

All quarter final games had VAR, FA ruled on it.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dog and Duck in the FA Vase

This has been a cracking FA Cup tie - not sure how VAR have allowed that , looks offside
		
Click to expand...

They showed the VAR image and lines, he was well onside.


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## RichA (Mar 21, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			As a lifelong Forest fan, before the match I'd said I just didnt want them to be humiliated. Obviously I'd have liked a win but I said I'd accept a one - nil defeat to a lucky goal in the last ten minutes.  It just happened 3 minutes early.  Thought we acquitted ourselves well. Now we can concentrate on the league. Yoooooooooo Reddddddds.
		
Click to expand...

Likewise. 
I just wanted us to give them a game and we did. I almost wish they'd scored 15 minutes earlier so we'd go all out to score for a bit longer. 
The next few weeks will be a good fight, if we maintain our momentum. Haven't been to the City Ground for a few years, but the support looks epic at the moment.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 21, 2022)

The Premier League is shaping up now with 8-10 games left to play!

2 horse race for the title - cant see both being perfect for the remainder of the season AND they have to play at the Etihad still.

5 teams in with a shout of getting 4th spot (being kind to United and wolves I know - but its mathmatically possible)

Villa currently leading the "best of the rest" with Leicester, Southampton, Palace and Brighton - the 10 point gap to the teams above is too great now. Essentially we are all playing for nothing. 

Newcastle will be safe - as are now Brentford and Leeds I imagine!

Everton, Watford and Burnley will be down to the wire - Id like to see Burnley stay up.

No saving Norwich


Im happy with 9th - would be disappointed with anything less. I said before the season began that if Villa finished the same or higher in the league as last year (11th) without Jack Grealish - then thats good progression considering how one dimensional we once were. Id like to see a good finish to the season, the title being decided on the final day would be very entertaining for the neutrals!


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## nickjdavis (Mar 21, 2022)

I believe that Watford will play a big part in who goes down as they have home games against Leeds, Brentford and Burnley.

Norwich are down but can play with freedom in home games against Burnley and Newcastle, so wouldn't be surprised if a couple of shocks occurred at Carrow Road.

Also the games between Burnley and Everton, Everton and Brentford and Brentford v Leeds will be ones to look out for the results....

Leeds are not safe with their form or goal difference....Everton's 2 games in hand over their rivals may prove crucial..as may Burnleys. Given that Newcastle still have to play away at Spurs and Man City and home to Liverpool and Arsenal and have tricky home games against Wolves, Leicester and in-form Palace, all of which could be a win/draw/loss means that they potentially have two crucial games away at Norwich and Burnley (last day of the season) where they may need to pick up at least 4 points.

There's still a lot to be won/lost down at the bottom.


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## Dando (Mar 21, 2022)

has there been an update on the life threatening injury Son received yesterday when Zouma kicked the ball at him?


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## Jensen (Mar 21, 2022)

Dando said:



			has there been an update on the life threatening injury Son received yesterday when Zouma kicked the ball at him?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe Son was just doing a reaction of his cat 🐱


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## adam6177 (Mar 21, 2022)

Dando said:



			has there been an update on the life threatening injury Son received yesterday when Zouma kicked the ball at him?
		
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Ha ha ha I must have missed that, just seen it now... Absolute genius. But you must remember.... "Sons not like that"


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 21, 2022)

Dando said:



			has there been an update on the life threatening injury Son received yesterday when Zouma kicked the ball at him?
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505914878808117249
Believe Son’s leg is in critical condition


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## Dando (Mar 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505914878808117249
Believe Son’s leg is in critical condition
		
Click to expand...

Spuds are going to have an open top bus parade and release a DVD


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## Stuart_C (Mar 21, 2022)

I see twitterlinkphil is back😁😁


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 21, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			I believe that Watford will play a big part in who goes down as they have home games against Leeds, Brentford and Burnley.

Norwich are down but can play with freedom in home games against Burnley and Newcastle, so wouldn't be surprised if a couple of shocks occurred at Carrow Road.

Also the games between Burnley and Everton, Everton and Brentford and Brentford v Leeds will be ones to look out for the results....

Leeds are not safe with their form or goal difference....Everton's 2 games in hand over their rivals may prove crucial..as may Burnleys. Given that Newcastle still have to play away at Spurs and Man City and home to Liverpool and Arsenal and have tricky home games against Wolves, Leicester and in-form Palace, all of which could be a win/draw/loss means that they potentially have two crucial games away at Norwich and Burnley (last day of the season) where they may need to pick up at least 4 points.

There's still a lot to be won/lost down at the bottom.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that Norwich and Watford both have big parts to play. They will want to entertain their fans at home for the rest of the season and that could mean lots of goals (although maybe both ends). Hodgson will get Watford well drilled and organised and so it will be hard for those needing points against them to break them down but I don't think they'll pick up enough other points to get out of it. That said if Everton don't get their finger out it's not beyond the realms of possibility for them to be playing second tier football.


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## putterman60 (Mar 21, 2022)

Re Everton............. i hope they don`t go down ............but you look at the situation there over the last ?? years ,then look in League One see Sunderland, Sheff Weds, Ipswich,Bolton .


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 21, 2022)

Ticket Prices from 1980


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## IanM (Mar 21, 2022)

In the few years before that and thereabouts,  we used to get the train to Waterloo and just turn up at Spurs, Chelsea   Arsenal and West Ham and pay even less than that as under 16s.

And folk think golf prices have gone nuts


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			In the few years before that and thereabouts,  we used to get the train to Waterloo and just turn up at Spurs, Chelsea   Arsenal and West Ham and pay even less than that as under 16s.

And folk think golf prices have gone nuts
		
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Fulham were in the old division 3 and some of the outposts like Carlisle were dirt cheap to get into (and in relative terms cheap to get to on the trains with some clever booking. I use to go to other London clubs if Fulham weren't playing and it was easy to get in and didn't hurt the pocket


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## nickjdavis (Mar 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505914878808117249
Believe Son’s leg is in critical condition
		
Click to expand...

Utterly pathetic...he was on his way down before the ball hit him!!!!!!


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 21, 2022)

I assume that this is true as Sky Sports have Tweeted it. Surely they'll have to move the match to somewhere that fans can get to easily.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 21, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I assume that this is true as Sky Sports have Tweeted it. Surely they'll have to move the match to somewhere that fans can get to easily.

View attachment 41917

Click to expand...

They can’t, the FA have a contract with Wembley they must fulfil. They’d rather play it with no fans than have to pay the fine to move it. Let’s be honest, when did the FA or PL think about fans? They don’t give 2 hoots about them, they never have and they never will.

All FA Cup semis should still be played at neutral grounds equidistant between the 2 teams.

It’s a ball ache getting to and from Wembley from the North without a train service.

Its good to see both supporters groups calling for it though.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 22, 2022)

We played Chelsea in the 2002 FA Cup semi-final at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff. Road works on the M4 and engineering works on the railway meant it was a real pain in the rear end. Lost 1-0 to a John Terry goal. Would have been simple to have it much nearer London but again the FA had the contract with the Millennium Stadium as they were hosting the finals. The FA don't give a flying fig about fans (did they ever)


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## Swango1980 (Mar 22, 2022)

I guess if 2 English teams get to the Champions League final, fans will be demanding it is played in England. 

Will the FA have already hired contractors for the FA Cup final in London, who would potentially lose their income if venue changed? Have tickets already gone on sale? Will some fans have already arranged a weekend trip to London, hoping their team gets to the final? If the venue was changed, will it be simple to organise all the logistics that go with it? 

Sounds easy to type "change the venue" and then moan the FA don't care about the fans. However, if you were actually in charge, you'd quickly find actions are much harder than words.


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## PieMan (Mar 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess if 2 English teams get to the Champions League final, fans will be demanding it is played in England.

Will the FA have already hired contractors for the FA Cup final in London, who would potentially lose their income if venue changed? Have tickets already gone on sale? Will some fans have already arranged a weekend trip to London, hoping their team gets to the final? If the venue was changed, will it be simple to organise all the logistics that go with it?

Sounds easy to type "change the venue" and then moan the FA don't care about the fans. However, if you were actually in charge, you'd quickly find actions are much harder than words.
		
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Paris is easy enough for both Chelsea and Bayern to travel to........!


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ticket Prices from 1980 
	View attachment 41913

Click to expand...

My first season ticket in 1986 was £46 - It is now about that for one game in the champions league.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess if 2 English teams get to the Champions League final, fans will be demanding it is played in England.

Will the FA have already hired contractors for the FA Cup final in London, who would potentially lose their income if venue changed? Have tickets already gone on sale? Will some fans have already arranged a weekend trip to London, hoping their team gets to the final? If the venue was changed, will it be simple to organise all the logistics that go with it?

Sounds easy to type "change the venue" and then moan the FA don't care about the fans. However, if you were actually in charge, you'd quickly find actions are much harder than words.
		
Click to expand...

The point is that I believe this engineering work has been planned in for some time, so they should have checked a lot earlier and made alternative arrangements.

They are more bothered about paying the stadium off and have London FC (England) as a long term tenant for games than anything else.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 22, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			My first season ticket in 1986 was £46 - It is now about that for one game in the champions league.
		
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What do they rush you now for a season ticket?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess if 2 English teams get to the Champions League final, fans will be demanding it is played in England.

Will the FA have already hired contractors for the FA Cup final in London, who would potentially lose their income if venue changed? Have tickets already gone on sale? Will some fans have already arranged a weekend trip to London, hoping their team gets to the final? If the venue was changed, will it be simple to organise all the logistics that go with it?

Sounds easy to type "change the venue" and then moan the FA don't care about the fans. However, if you were actually in charge, you'd quickly find actions are much harder than words.
		
Click to expand...

Works and train closures have always been planned for the bank holiday - that’s been there for a lot longer than the FA Cup Semi final dates - it just needed a bit of planning from the FA to not host the Semi final over Easter


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 22, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			The point is that I believe this engineering work has been planned in for some time, so they should have checked a lot earlier and made alternative arrangements.

They are more bothered about paying the stadium off and have London FC (England) as a long term tenant for games than anything else.
		
Click to expand...

It's common sense surely. Check the major routes (road and rail) for engineering work and then arrange to play away from those dates. Bank holiday is a prime time for engineering so why put the fixtures there?


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## Swango1980 (Mar 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Works and train closures have always been planned for the bank holiday - that’s been there for a lot longer than the FA Cup Semi final dates - it just needed a bit of planning from the FA to not host the Semi final over Easter
		
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To be fair, if Liverpool get to the final, apparently there are more Liverpool fans in London than Liverpool. I guess same is true for other big clubs. 

Anyway, do clubs not organise coaches to London? Could they not organise more than normal to account for disruption to railway?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			To be fair, if Liverpool get to the final, apparently there are more Liverpool fans in London than Liverpool. I guess same is true for other big clubs.

Anyway, do clubs not organise coaches to London? Could they not organise more than normal to account for disruption to railway?
		
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Problem you have with coaches is getting in and out of wembley especially as theres 2 NW teams so
double the amount of traffic trying to go the same way. Its carnage.

We can do the train home in 3hrs 30 max  from wembley. With City goin there itll probably take 2hrs getting away from wembley then stuck in traffic on the North Circular getting to the M1.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 22, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What do they rush you now for a season ticket?
		
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Mines £855 for 19 league  games £55 per CL game.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



*I guess if 2 English teams get to the Champions League final, fans will be demanding it is played in England.*

Will the FA have already hired contractors for the FA Cup final in London, who would potentially lose their income if venue changed? Have tickets already gone on sale? Will some fans have already arranged a weekend trip to London, hoping their team gets to the final? If the venue was changed, will it be simple to organise all the logistics that go with it?

Sounds easy to type "change the venue" and then moan the FA don't care about the fans. However, if you were actually in charge, you'd quickly find actions are much harder than words.
		
Click to expand...

If the circumstances justify it, as per last year with travel restrictions & Covid issues then yes they should; otherwise no.

Nor should it be moved if one team ends up with a home game, as per 2012.

In this instance I feel the circumstances warrant the change & the semi should probably go to Old Trafford; yes, more convenient for City but it gives both sets of fans a fair chance to attend.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



*Mines £855 for 19 league  games* £55 per CL game.
		
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Another £25 per year and you could watch a decent team...


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## SteveW86 (Mar 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mines £855 for 19 league  games £55 per CL game.
		
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How much does Phil pay for his?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 22, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			How much does Phil pay for his?
		
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Twitter is free 😉


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## Stuart_C (Mar 22, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Another £25 per year and you could watch a decent team... 

Click to expand...

Why would i want to pay more to watch a decent team when i can pay less and watch the best🤷🏼🤷🏼😉


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## richart (Mar 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Why would i want to pay more to watch a decent team when i can pay less and watch the best🤷🏼🤷🏼😉
		
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Don't worry Stu. Don't think you are allowed to pay anything at the moment for that 'decent' team. I pay £300 for 23 games so that must be a bargain.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 22, 2022)

richart said:



			Don't worry Stu. Don't think you are allowed to pay anything at the moment for that 'decent' team. I pay £300 for 23 games so *that must be a bargain.*

Click to expand...

Or reflects the worth of the entertainment...


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## hairball_89 (Mar 22, 2022)

By comparison, a mate of mine pays £1300 to watch spurs every week! We don't remind him how much it costs... Much.

By comparison, I pay £40 a year for the seagulls women WSL season ticket. Are they any good? They're fine. Is the football brilliant? Nah. Do I enjoy being out watching some football for what equates to £3.60 a match? Absolutely.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 22, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506324380720193536


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506324380720193536

Click to expand...

No idea why people will be surprised. Don't kill the golden goose and as long as the top teams are having the best players whatever the cost then the CL will still be top box office. No chance for anyone outside the top 4 in our PL and the likes of the French and German leagues will be even more one sided. No chance for any of the smaller clubs to make an impact.


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## hairball_89 (Mar 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506324380720193536

Click to expand...

So... They have managed to replace something that does absolutely nothing and doesn't matter, with something that will do absolutely nothing and not matter?

That's surprising. Given how forward thinking and progressive UEFA are as an organisation...


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 22, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			So... They have managed to replace something that does absolutely nothing and doesn't matter, with something that will do absolutely nothing and not matter?

That's surprising. Given how forward thinking and progressive UEFA are as an organisation...
		
Click to expand...

I disagree. They have found a way for the rich to get even richer and bugger the rest. Ho much forward thinking do you need Uefa to be


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## hairball_89 (Mar 22, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I disagree. They have found a way for the rich to get even richer and bugger the rest. Ho much forward thinking do you need Uefa to be 

Click to expand...

Perhaps my distaste for this wasn't obvious enough. You are entirely correct. It gets closer to the "closed shop" offered by the European Super League, while still dangling the carrot by saying "it's fine. They have to abide by these rules".

I expect to see sponsorship deals for Man City and Newcastle from Saudi / UAE tourist board increase dramatically.

All it stops is someone like Tony Bloom at Brighton saying "actually, I'll just give my kids £100mil each and as of tomorrow every penny of my £2.4bn is going on footballers".

It doesn't give the biggest clubs anything to worry about. It stops the smaller clubs competing. And the FFP debacle has shown that sanctions maybe in place, but UEFA aren't going to use them anyway.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 22, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Perhaps my distaste for this wasn't obvious enough. You are entirely correct. It gets closer to the "closed shop" offered by the European Super League, while still dangling the carrot by saying "it's fine. They have to abide by these rules".

I expect to see sponsorship deals for Man City and Newcastle from Saudi / UAE tourist board increase dramatically.

All it stops is someone like Tony Bloom at Brighton saying "actually, I'll just give my kids £100mil each and as of tomorrow every penny of my £2.4bn is going on footballers".

It doesn't give the biggest clubs anything to worry about. It stops the smaller clubs competing.
		
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I agree. Will become virtually impossible to break into the last 8 of the CL and it'll be the same sides every year in the final stages. It makes it a Super League in all but name


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 22, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What do they rush you now for a season ticket?
		
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£725.00 but thats been frozen for about 4-5 years now, since Liverpool fans saved the whole of football fandom by staging a walkout.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 23, 2022)

Mike Dean is to retire from the field at the end of this season. He has applied to become a full time VAR official, like Mason


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## nickjdavis (Mar 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Mike Dean is to retire from the field at the end of this season. He has applied to become a full time VAR official, like Mason
		
Click to expand...

Every silver lining has a cloud.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Mike Dean is to retire from the field at the end of this season. He has applied to become a full time VAR official, like Mason
		
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That’s because VAR is now the centre of attention and Mike Dean loves attention


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## Bdill93 (Mar 23, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree. Will become virtually impossible to break into the last 8 of the CL and it'll be the same sides every year in the final stages. It makes it a Super League in all but name
		
Click to expand...

Genuine question - Do EUFA rules apply to Aston Villa? Were not in any form of European competition - surely we just need to comply if we do achieve European football? (And my thinking is, if so - the greater income from acheiving European football could subsidise this?)

Just a thought! Happy to be proven wrong


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 23, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Genuine question - Do EUFA rules apply to Aston Villa? Were not in any form of European competition - surely we just need to comply if we do achieve European football? (And my thinking is, if so - the greater income from acheiving European football could subsidise this?)

Just a thought! Happy to be proven wrong 

Click to expand...

I think the PL must have rules as well otherwise Everton would not be sweating about FFP. European football is really not relevant to us right now but we were limited for transfers last summer and they are talking about a possible points deduction for next year.


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## fundy (Mar 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think the PL must have rules as well otherwise Everton would not be sweating about FFP. European football is really not relevant to us right now but we were limited for transfers last summer and they are talking about a possible points deduction for next year.
		
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gonna be tough getting out of the championship giving the others a head start


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## Tashyboy (Mar 23, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60847179

As much as I applaud the owners for this. How are the owners actually allowed to use there own money to do this. What about FFP.
I have always thought it odd that an owner can come in and spend its own money to buy a club, but once it owns it, it cannot use its own money to invest in the club it has bought. 🤔


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			gonna be tough getting out of the championship giving the others a head start 

Click to expand...

PL and Championship are run separately so I'm hoping any penalty, if there is one, won't carry over and impact 😉😁


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## Tashyboy (Mar 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			PL and Championship are run separately so I'm hoping any penalty, if there is one, won't carry over and impact 😉😁
		
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Al bet the derby fans are looking on with envy 😁👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Al bet the derby fans are looking on with envy 😁👍
		
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I might be wrong though


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## Swango1980 (Mar 23, 2022)

Russia have put in a bid to host Euro 2028


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Russia have put in a bid to host Euro 2028
		
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Having seen how the big footballing organisations, UEFA and FIFA, have operated over many years it wouldn't be a massive surprise if the Russian bid is successful.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 23, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Having seen how the big footballing organisations, UEFA and FIFA, have operated over many years it wouldn't be a massive surprise if the Russian bid is successful.
		
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And if they are, no one should go.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60847179

As much as I applaud the owners for this. How are the owners actually allowed to use there own money to do this. What about FFP.
I have always thought it odd that an owner can come in and spend its own money to buy a club, but once it owns it, it cannot use its own money to invest in the club it has bought. 🤔
		
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Oh, the irony of a Man City fan complaining about another club and FFP...


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## IanM (Mar 24, 2022)

Bale's injury has cleared up and will  return at 10:25pm!


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 24, 2022)

Come on Wales


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## Swango1980 (Mar 24, 2022)

Immense free kick from Bale


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## Tashyboy (Mar 24, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Oh, the irony of a Man City fan complaining about another club and FFP...
		
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Which part of “ I applaud “ applies to complaining.😂😂😂😉👍


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## fundy (Mar 24, 2022)

IanM said:



			Bale's injury has cleared up and will  return at 10:25pm!

Click to expand...


some hit that!!!!!


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## IanM (Mar 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			some hit that!!!!!
		
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Awesome.  Here he goes again.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 24, 2022)

Bale still has a decent left foot


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## fundy (Mar 24, 2022)

ooops, its gone a bit Spursy


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## Swango1980 (Mar 24, 2022)

If Daniel James had an end product, he'd be immense. Sadly, he has the worst end product in the Premier League.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If Daniel James had an end product, he'd be immense. Sadly, he has the worst end product in the Premier League.
		
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One of those that needs 7 chances to get one. Can't do that at this level


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## fundy (Mar 24, 2022)

Italy going out????


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## fundy (Mar 24, 2022)

Congrats Wales


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## nickjdavis (Mar 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			Italy going out????
		
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Gone.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 24, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Gone.
		
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Out to the 67th ranked team.


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## srixon 1 (Mar 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			Italy going out????
		
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Gone🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## IanM (Mar 24, 2022)

I bet on Wales to win!!  Excellent. 

I bet on Scotland too.   Cashed out after 85 minutes.   

That's the shirt I bought at Birkdale yesterday paid for!


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 24, 2022)

Remarkable that Italy have gone from European champions to not qualifying for the World Cup. To lose at home as well.......

That's a heck of a swing in emotions.


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## IanM (Mar 24, 2022)

No sign of my Italian mate on my Facebook timeline after the game, usually copious content.


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## fundy (Mar 24, 2022)

IanM said:



			I bet on Wales to win!!  Excellent.

I bet on Scotland too.   Cashed out after 85 minutes.   

That's the shirt I bought at Birkdale yesterday paid for!
		
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if youd backed North Macedonia too Id be popping out for a lottery ticket


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## Tashyboy (Mar 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Remarkable that Italy have gone from European champions to not qualifying for the World Cup. To lose at home as well.......

That's a heck of a swing in emotions.
		
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It’s the second World Cup on the spin that Italy are not playing in. The stats re Italys shots are astounding. Love to know what the thought process is behind playing the game in Palermo. It’s like England playing in Rochdale. 😳


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## 3offTheTee (Mar 24, 2022)

32!shots against 4 and North Macedonia scored in the 92nd minute.

Think Palermo stadium from memory is a tad bigger than Spotland Tashy my man. It was when I was there when they had just been promoted in 2004.  Like you I have lived in Rochdale but it was not by choice. 

Trust you are keeping well young man


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 25, 2022)

My future son in law is Italian 
He was giving it large after the Euros, 
Time to give some back methinks
#bantz 🤭


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## IanM (Mar 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			if youd backed North Macedonia too Id be popping out for a lottery ticket 

Click to expand...

If I had, I wouldn't need the lottery money!  I'm not sure what the price was, but I doubt many took it!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 25, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			32!shots against 4 and North Macedonia scored in the 92nd minute.

Think Palermo stadium from memory is a tad bigger than Spotland Tashy my man. It was when I was there when they had just been promoted in 2004.  *Like you I have lived in Rochdale but it was not by choice.*

Trust you are keeping well young man
		
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😂😂 Born there, I never realised at the time, but when we emigrated from Rochdale to Mansfield in 1970 it was one of my happier days. Still go back twice a year to Bury market for me provisions. Alls well and interesting at the moment. 🤔😁


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 25, 2022)

What now for Mancini?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 25, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What now for Mancini?
		
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Bobby Manc as he is affectionately know as in our house.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 25, 2022)

The plastic Italian from West London posted a video of him singing (shouting) "Italia-italia" seconds after we lost the euros to them in our work WhatsApp group..

I love how WhatsApp saves all these things 

"See you in Qatar ☺️"


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## nickjdavis (Mar 26, 2022)

England very disjointed and lacking any structure at the moment. Switzerland could be 3 up.


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## Billysboots (Mar 26, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			England very disjointed and lacking any structure at the moment. Switzerland could be 3 up.
		
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We are an awfully dull watch. We spend almost as much time going backwards as we do forwards, and it just makes for terribly frustrating viewing.


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## Slime (Mar 26, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			We are an awfully dull watch. We spend almost as much time going backwards as we do forwards, and it just makes for terribly frustrating viewing.
		
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Yeah, but you and I are sadly used to it!


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## Swango1980 (Mar 26, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			We are an awfully dull watch. We spend almost as much time going backwards as we do forwards, and it just makes for terribly frustrating viewing.
		
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Well, Southgate has decided to play 5 at the back, at home against Switzerland. With Henderson protecting them in front. If Southgate managed City or Liverpool, they too would be awful to watch


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, Southgate has decided to play 5 at the back, at home against Switzerland. With Henderson protecting them in front. If Southgate managed City or Liverpool, they too would be awful to watch
		
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He would never be given the chance to manage either - he is a hugely defensive manager, proven and won nothing at any level as a manager


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## Billysboots (Mar 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He would never be given the chance to manage either - he is a hugely defensive manager and proven and won nothing at any level as a manager
		
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The same discussion was raised during the Euros, Phil. And I agree. 

Southgate has a wealth of young attacking talent at his disposal, possibly the most for a generation, and his negativity stifles it. It’s an absolute crying shame.

A top manager’s eyes would light up if given the likes of Grealish, Saka, Mount, Foden and Gallagher to work with.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			The same discussion was raised during the Euros, Phil. And I agree.

Southgate has a wealth of young attacking talent at his disposal, possibly the most for a generation, and his negativity stifles it. It’s an absolute crying shame.

A top manager’s eyes would light up if given the likes of Grealish, Saka, Mount, Foden and Gallagher to work with.
		
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I disagree. Got us to a major final and the semi finals of a WC. We should have been more astute against Croatia to mange the game better but he learned from that. Again we could have taken chances against Italy and won the tournament. Qualified with ease and he has a way of getting results. Its a results business especially to ensure qualification (Italy!!!) and I feel there will be times when the attacking talent will be allowed to express themselves more but we are also liable to concede so a balancing act


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## Billysboots (Mar 26, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I disagree. Got us to a major final and the semi finals of a WC. We should have been more astute against Croatia to mange the game better but he learned from that. Again we could have taken chances against Italy and won the tournament. Qualified with ease and he has a way of getting results. Its a results business especially to ensure qualification (Italy!!!) and I feel there will be times when the attacking talent will be allowed to express themselves more but we are also liable to concede so a balancing act
		
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Got us to a final which, having gone 1-0 up early on, we should have won. Alas, with 7 defensive minded players in front of Pickford, we instead tried to sit on that lead for over 80 minutes, dropping deeper and deeper in the process. The outcome was inevitable and Southgate’s negativity was laid bare for the footballing world to see.

We might have got to that final, but the game summed Southgate up as a manager. Too frightened to lose to grasp a once in a lifetime opportunity.


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## fundy (Mar 26, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I disagree. Got us to a major final and the semi finals of a WC. We should have been more astute against Croatia to mange the game better but he learned from that. Again we could have taken chances against Italy and won the tournament. Qualified with ease and he has a way of getting results. Its a results business especially to ensure qualification (Italy!!!) and I feel there will be times when the attacking talent will be allowed to express themselves more but we are also liable to concede so a balancing act
		
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Italy the world beaters we tried to shut up shop against when there for the taking dont even make the world cup, thats how big an open goal we missed in the Euros. Instead of going for the kill at 1-0 he tried to sit on it and let them back in the game  Have no doubt it will be the same if we get deep in the world cup too sadly  Southgate is a safe pair of hands that wont go out in the group games and will play the penalties roulette in the KO stages if needed, sadly talent wise this is as good a squad as weve had in a very long time when a lot of the other so called major nations are lacking, personally think we'll regret the wasted opportunities of his tenure not celebrate the near misses in years to come


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## Billysboots (Mar 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Italy the world beaters we tried to shut up shop against when there for the taking dont even make the world cup, thats how big an open goal we missed in the Euros. Instead of going for the kill at 1-0 he tried to sit on it and let them back in the game  Have no doubt it will be the same if we get deep in the world cup too sadly  Southgate is a safe pair of hands that wont go out in the group games and will play the penalties roulette in the KO stages if needed, sadly talent wise this is as good a squad as weve had in a very long time when a lot of the other so called major nations are lacking, personally think we'll regret the wasted opportunities of his tenure not celebrate the near misses in years to come
		
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Absolutely spot on.


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## Golfmmad (Mar 26, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			The same discussion was raised during the Euros, Phil. And I agree.

Southgate has a wealth of young attacking talent at his disposal, possibly the most for a generation, and his negativity stifles it. It’s an absolute crying shame.

A top manager’s eyes would light up if given the likes of Grealish, Saka, Mount, Foden and Gallagher to work with.
		
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What do you mean? Apart from Saka all those players were on the pitch tonight. I agree it wasn't the best game to watch but he gave 3 their debuts. 
Looking on it from an England managers point of view he has to look at different players and formations in preparation for the World Cup. 
Let's judge him in Quatar.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Italy the world beaters we tried to shut up shop against when there for the taking dont even make the world cup, thats how big an open goal we missed in the Euros. Instead of going for the kill at 1-0 he tried to sit on it and let them back in the game  Have no doubt it will be the same if we get deep in the world cup too sadly  Southgate is a safe pair of hands that wont go out in the group games and will play the penalties roulette in the KO stages if needed, sadly talent wise this is as good a squad as weve had in a very long time when a lot of the other so called major nations are lacking, personally think we'll regret the wasted opportunities of his tenure not celebrate the near misses in years to come
		
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But a side like Italy are used to soaking up pressure and had we gone for a more attacking response we would have been ripe for the counter-attack. At the end of the day by the second period of ET neither side wanted to win and were happy to go to penalties


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## Billysboots (Mar 26, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			What do you mean? Apart from Saka all those players were on the pitch tonight. I agree it wasn't the best game to watch but he gave 3 their debuts.
Looking on it from an England managers point of view he has to look at different players and formations in preparation for the World Cup.
Let's judge him in Quatar.
		
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What I mean is he doesn’t make the most of what he has available to him. I’m not sure why we should wait until Qatar to judge him as a manager - he’s already failed when it really matters at two tournaments.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			What I mean is he doesn’t make the most of what he has available to him. I’m not sure why we should wait until Qatar to judge him as a manager - he’s already failed when it really matters at two tournaments.
		
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Not sure you can call him a failure after a final and a semi final. Far better than what has gone before all the way back to Robson at Italia 90


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## fundy (Mar 26, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But a side like Italy are used to soaking up pressure and had we gone for a more attacking response we would have been ripe for the counter-attack. At the end of the day by the second period of ET neither side wanted to win and were happy to go to penalties
		
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Rubbish they were sitting ducks half an hour in, 1-0 down and creaking, an aging defense whod played a lot of football and were there to be run at by the likes of Saka, Sterling etc, instead we sat back and didnt ask a single question of them, instead relying on 7 defensive players to try and hold them out. Not the modern football progressive approach, put the foot on the throat in those situations and that will never be Southgates choice sadly. As i said safe pair of hands but wasting a squad some previous England managers could only dream of


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## Billysboots (Mar 26, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure you can call him a failure after a final and a semi final. Far better than what has gone before all the way back to Robson at Italia 90
		
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Okay, a glorious failure then!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 26, 2022)

Slime said:



			Yeah, but you and I are sadly used to it! 

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😂😂😂😂😂
Post of the day


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## Golfmmad (Mar 26, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			What I mean is he doesn’t make the most of what he has available to him. I’m not sure why we should wait until Qatar to judge him as a manager - he’s already failed when it really matters at two tournaments.
		
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I disagree, he got us to the Euro final and Italy couldn't beat us over 120mins.
Hardly a failure. 
We're never going to see the best eleven in a friendly so not a time to judge him.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Rubbish they were sitting ducks half an hour in, 1-0 down and creaking, an aging defense whod played a lot of football and were there to be run at by the likes of Saka, Sterling etc, instead we sat back and didnt ask a single question of them, instead relying on 7 defensive players to try and hold them out. Not the modern football progressive approach, put the foot on the throat in those situations and that will never be Southgates choice sadly. As i said safe pair of hands but wasting a squad some previous England managers could only dream of
		
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One of the strangest decisions of the euro finals was taking off rice (who wasn't even injured and was running the midfield) to bring on Henderson... It's a position you don't change for the sake of it, maybe if you were changing system and brining off a defensive player for attacker but litterally like for like


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## Tashyboy (Mar 27, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I disagree, he got us to the Euro final and Italy couldn't beat us over 120mins.
Hardly a failure.
We're never going to see the best eleven in a friendly so not a time to judge him.
		
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I don’t expect to see the. Best eleven, but after two tournaments I expect to see a football pattern, I expect to see a style of play, I expect to see a plan B. I don’t see any of that. What I saw was a ball being lumped 80 yds upfield to Foden. That is the first time I have ever seen that. What I saw was a goalkeeper struggling at Everton who should of been dropped and competition for his place. It was Rammel.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 27, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I disagree, he got us to the Euro final and Italy couldn't beat us over 120mins.
Hardly a failure. 
We're never going to see the best eleven in a friendly so not a time to judge him.
		
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Teams like Greece and Denmark have won the Euros. Getting to a final or semi is not the only evidence that is required to determine whether England are progressing to fulfil the potential of the players.

A great team could go out in the quarters, sometimes a bit of bad luck on the day ends a teams hopes. However, fans can still see many positive signs from that team just in terms of how the players play. I've seen many more encouraging periods for England over the last 30 years than under Southgate's reign. If course, there have been worse periods also.

Under Southgate everything has just become stale. In his first few years he always had a ready made excuse for the players if they got beat, their youth. They can't really fall back on that anymore, so now the pressure is on. Under Southgate, I cannot imagine you will ever see an England team play positive, dominant football against the other big nations. England will always be underdogs against them with him in charge.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t expect to see the. Best eleven, but after two tournaments I expect to see a football pattern, I expect to see a style of play, I expect to see a plan B. I don’t see any of that. What I saw was a ball being lumped 80 yds upfield to Foden. That is the first time I have ever seen that. What I saw was a goalkeeper struggling at Everton who should of been dropped and competition for his place. It was Rammel.
		
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It's always the same thing with the National team manager....play their favoured players regardless of form or fitness.
I don't make an effort now to watch or follow the England footy team now, I'm sick to death of the acceptance of drivel.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Teams like Greece and Denmark have won the Euros. Getting to a final or semi is not the only evidence that is required to determine whether England are progressing to fulfil the potential of the players.

A great team could go out in the quarters, sometimes a bit of bad luck on the day ends a teams hopes. However, fans can still see many positive signs from that team just in terms of how the players play. I've seen many more encouraging periods for England over the last 30 years than under Southgate's reign. If course, there have been worse periods also.

Under Southgate everything has just become stale. In his first few years he always had a ready made excuse for the players if they got beat, their youth. They can't really fall back on that anymore, so now the pressure is on. *Under Southgate, I cannot imagine you will ever see an England team play positive, dominant football against the other big nations. England will always be underdogs against them with him in charge.*

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If he didn’t have the players to play positive football I could understand, but he has a wealth of talent. I feel it will be another wasted golden generation.


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## Golfmmad (Mar 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			If he didn’t have the players to play positive football I could understand, but he has a wealth of talent. I feel it will be another wasted golden generation.
		
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As I've already said, judge him in Qatar, if he fails then I will hold my hands up. 
Teams and players evolve over time and in the finals we'll see a different team. All the patterns, tactics and players tried in "Friendlies" will come to fruition at the right time. 
In Southgate I trust! 👍


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## BiMGuy (Mar 27, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			As I've already said, judge him in Qatar, if he fails then I will hold my hands up.
Teams and players evolve over time and in the finals we'll see a different team. All the patterns, tactics and players tried in "Friendlies" will come to fruition at the right time.
In Southgate I trust! 👍
		
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What constitutes a successful World Cup?


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## Golfmmad (Mar 27, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			What constitutes a successful World Cup?
		
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You know the answer to that, let's wait and see. 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			As I've already said, judge him in Qatar, if he fails then I will hold my hands up.
Teams and players evolve over time and in the finals we'll see a different team. All the patterns, tactics and players tried in "Friendlies" will come to fruition at the right time.
In Southgate I trust! 👍
		
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Can he not be judged on the previous two tournaments where it was handed to them on a plate and both times despite the squad available fell short when faced with stronger opposition - he has had one really great result - the one against Germany 

Southgate is rigid in his tactics and formations, he doesn’t know how to get the best out of the likes of Foden , TAA , Bellingham etc , he will continue to persist with at the very least 6/7 defensive players on the pitch. 

A better more proven manager would have won either the World Cup or Euros with those players and the matches they had.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 27, 2022)

I was at the game yesterday and it was a typical end of season friendly where no one wanted to get injured. And it was used to give some players a run out. 

A few things stood out to me. 

Henderson and Kane were poor. Very poor. Kane won absolutely nothing and his first touch was off. He didn’t look all that interested.
Henderson might as well not have been there for most of the first half. Rice was an improvement when he came on, but it highlighted how much they need the Rice and Philips partnership.

Foden is a different class to the rest of them (apart from passing when 1v1 with the keeper 🤦‍♂️) You can tell he is used to playing with much better players.

Ben White could easily play on the right wing.

There were lots of opportunities to shoot, but they seemed reluctant to. Shaw was the only one who did and scored.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 27, 2022)

Going to the game also served as a reminder as to why I don't take the lad to more games. The number of complete and utter bell ends there in the so called "family section" was shocking. Some of them with their own kids. It's a depressing sight to see young kids and their dads wearing matching stone island ger swearing, gesturing and abusing other people. A few even with te Mrs and a couple of kids. 

Embarresing!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 27, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			As I've already said, judge him in Qatar, if he fails then I will hold my hands up.
Teams and players evolve over time and in the finals we'll see a different team. All the patterns, tactics and players tried in "Friendlies" will come to fruition at the right time.
In Southgate I trust! 👍
		
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Am not waiting til Qatar, I have already seen enough.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 27, 2022)

Who is this mythical top manager that people want to take England to tournament glory?


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## Swango1980 (Mar 27, 2022)

I'm still confused why Southgate didn't bring Sancho, who is still surely one for the future if he starts to hit form. Especially as he has started to get a dun of games and looked a lot better recently. Instead, he takes Sterling who we know he already loves, and he has no need to learn anything more from him in a friendly (had Sterling been great for City lately?).

However, I was even more stunned when I learnt Sterling had been given permission to fly to Jamaica a few days ago to represent his foundation. Possibly why he started the game yesterday on the bench. Again, by all means give him permission to do that in an international friendly week, but surely it would then be a good idea to not select him for the squad. Give him time to do what he needs to do, and give another player a chance to play for England.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm still confused why Southgate didn't bring Sancho, who is still surely one for the future if he starts to hit form. Especially as he has started to get a dun of games and looked a lot better recently. Instead, he takes Sterling who we know he already loves, and he has no need to learn anything more from him in a friendly (had Sterling been great for City lately?).

However, I was even more stunned when I learnt Sterling had been given permission to fly to Jamaica a few days ago to represent his foundation. Possibly why he started the game yesterday on the bench. Again, by all means give him permission to do that in an international friendly week, but surely it would then be a good idea to not select him for the squad. Give him time to do what he needs to do, and give another player a chance to play for England.
		
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Exactly 👍 when I look at England Foden, Mount, Sancho and Grealish must be the basis of a future generation. There’s a few more to stick in there as well. The only one to be a shoe in for the future will be Maguire.


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## 4LEX (Mar 27, 2022)

Southgate is an interesting one. I think he's done a brilliant job getting the club rivalry and toxic atmosphere that used to surround England out of it all. He's made it a positive place and created a family/holiday type atmosphere. He's also a top bloke. 

However he's not learnt one bit from his mistakes. He's too negative and too scared to make a brave decision when it matters. I don't think as a coach he's good enough to do anything other than man manage, create a good environment, play it safe and hope for individual brilliance. Due to the lack of quality of other major sides that may well be enough in Qatar though.

Let's hope for an easy draw and some luck!


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 27, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Who is this mythical top manager that people want to take England to tournament glory?
		
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Exactly. And what guarantee is there of success anyway. Southgate has brought a balanced and calm camp together where players enjoy being together and they are playing as a unit. It may not be pretty but they keep on winning. What else is he supposed to do. So close to winning two major finals, and you can't say they were handed it on a plate as they have to still win matches


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## Papas1982 (Mar 27, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Exactly. And what guarantee is there of success anyway. Southgate has brought a balanced and calm camp together where players enjoy being together and they are playing as a unit. It may not be pretty but they keep on winning. What else is he supposed to do. So close to winning two major finals, and you can't say they were handed it on a plate as they have to still win matches
		
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So far during his tenure. I believe in tournament football I believe Germany are the only team ranked above us that his has actually beaten. 

With his style of football, unless he wins he will be questioned as he's playing against our strength in the eyes of most. 

At that to the fact he always spouted this form first and then quickly reverted to favourites and it's no surprise he faces questions.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 27, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			So far during his tenure. I believe in tournament football I believe Germany are the only team ranked above us that his has actually beaten.

With his style of football, unless he wins he will be questioned as he's playing against our strength in the eyes of most.

At that to the fact he always spouted this form first and then quickly reverted to favourites and it's no surprise he faces questions.
		
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5th in the rankings and Germany down in 11th so not sure what the rankings have to do with the results. Yes his style is dour at times and perhaps the flair players aren't given licence to express themselves enough but he keeps on winning


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## SteveW86 (Mar 27, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			5th in the rankings and Germany down in 11th so not sure what the rankings have to do with the results. Yes his style is dour at times and perhaps the flair players aren't given licence to express themselves enough but he *keeps on winning*

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I’d argue he hasn’t won anything


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## Papas1982 (Mar 27, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			5th in the rankings and Germany down in 11th so not sure what the rankings have to do with the results. Yes his style is dour at times and perhaps the flair players aren't given licence to express themselves enough but he keeps on winning
		
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If you read it properly. My point was that during his time as manager he has managed to beat one team apparently better than us (Germany at the time of the match). 

Other than that he has managed to beat teams worse than us. So hardly success. 

And he doesn't keep on winning. He hasn't won anything.


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## hairball_89 (Mar 27, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			5th in the rankings and Germany down in 11th so not sure what the rankings have to do with the results. Yes his style is dour at times and perhaps the flair players aren't given licence to express themselves enough but he keeps on winning
		
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He keeps on winning... Until the one that actually matters. When he has the opportunity to do something truly special. Yea... He's just not good enough for me.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 27, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			5th in the rankings and Germany down in 11th so not sure what the rankings have to do with the results. Yes his style is dour at times and perhaps the flair players aren't given licence to express themselves enough but he keeps on winning
		
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Indeed, cracking result against San Marino. Pity he didn't get any silverware for it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507847201162203136
Maguire 😂😂😂🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## Orikoru (Mar 28, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Southgate is an interesting one. *I think he's done a brilliant job getting the club rivalry and toxic atmosphere that used to surround England out of it all.* He's made it a positive place and created a family/holiday type atmosphere. He's also a top bloke.

However he's not learnt one bit from his mistakes. He's too negative and too scared to make a brave decision when it matters. I don't think as a coach he's good enough to do anything other than man manage, create a good environment, play it safe and hope for individual brilliance. Due to the lack of quality of other major sides that may well be enough in Qatar though.

Let's hope for an easy draw and some luck!
		
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Do we credit him with that? Or has that type of player simply died out? The Gary Nevilles, the Steven Gerrards, the John Terrys, types who would die for their club and fiercely hate players from their rivals. I'm just not sure any of these sort of players actually exist anymore. Not meaning to sound like Roy Keane when I say this.   I think football has changed rather than Southgate changing the atmosphere.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Do we credit him with that? Or has that type of player simply died out? The Gary Nevilles, the Steven Gerrards, the John Terrys, types who would die for their club and fiercely hate players from their rivals. I'm just not sure any of these sort of players actually exist anymore. Not meaning to sound like Roy Keane when I say this.   I think football has changed rather than Southgate changing the atmosphere.
		
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I think some credit is due to him for this to be honest. However, its also down to the captain and players themselves to ensure they connect when playing for England. 

Ill never understand why, with some of the best attacking talent in the world, we play 5 back... Its painful, boring and needs to be addressed. 4-3-3 works for the best teams in the world, why not England? Is it simply a lack of a world class CB?


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## Beezerk (Mar 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Ill never understand why, with some of the best attacking talent in the world, we play 5 back... Its painful, boring and needs to be addressed. 4-3-3 works for the best teams in the world, why not England? Is it simply a lack of a world class CB?
		
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Did you watch the Switzerland game? At times it was the typical England display, the opposition cut through our midfield far too easily (it’s been like that for years) and expose the defence. At least with 5 at the back we have cover but I do agree with you, it stifles the real talent in the team. If only England could sort out the problem of the midfield being bypassed too easily and we’d be onto something.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507847201162203136
Maguire 😂😂😂🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
		
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Maguire probably did it to stop Henderson and his irritating counting


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Did you watch the Switzerland game? At times it was the typical England display, the opposition cut through our midfield far too easily (it’s been like that for years) and expose the defence. At least with 5 at the back we have cover but I do agree with you, it stifles the real talent in the team. If only England could sort out the problem of the midfield being bypassed too easily and we’d be onto something.
		
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I know we had issues but it wasnt a full strength England - things got a lot easier when Rice came on - He's who I think we all have sitting in front of the CB's in our best XI's

Oddly enough, Villa had the same issues under Smith this season, bypassing the midfield does not enable good football. The players all do it at club level though - so it must be possible to achieve


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## Orikoru (Mar 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I think some credit is due to him for this to be honest. However, its also down to the captain and players themselves to ensure they connect when playing for England.

Ill never understand why, with some of the best attacking talent in the world, we play 5 back... Its painful, boring and needs to be addressed. 4-3-3 works for the best teams in the world, why not England? Is it simply a lack of a world class CB?
		
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Potentially is due to all our centre backs being rubbish, but I'm not convinced that 3 rubbish CBs is better than 2 rubbish CBs anyway personally. Just more players to cock it up.  If we're going to play a pivot of Rice & Hendo or other defensive players in front anyway then you surely don't need 3 CBs against 99% of international opposition. I would like to see a 4-2-3-1 ideally, Rice playing the right sided DM to cover our RB, which is going to be Trent or James who both like to get forward. Leaves room for Foden, Grealish and Sterling/whichever winger is in form behind Kane. Mount can play in Hendo's place against most of the awful sides we play, or come in for Grealish against better sides potentially.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Potentially is due to all our centre backs being rubbish, but I'm not convinced that 3 rubbish CBs is better than 2 rubbish CBs anyway personally. Just more players to cock it up.  If we're going to play a pivot of Rice & Hendo or other defensive players in front anyway then you surely don't need 3 CBs against 99% of international opposition. I would like to see a 4-2-3-1 ideally, Rice playing the right sided DM to cover our RB, which is going to be Trent or James who both like to get forward. Leaves room for Foden, Grealish and Sterling/whichever winger is in form behind Kane. Mount can play in Hendo's place against most of the awful sides we play, or come in for Grealish against better sides potentially.
		
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I agree. More quality on the field is better than another CB. Probably Hendo's last tournament. I think him alongside Rice in a 4-2-3-1 would be solid but still offer both the opportunity to press forward when the game dictates it. Both excellent players. Hendo always looks to play the ball forwards too


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## fundy (Mar 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Potentially is due to all our centre backs being rubbish, but I'm not convinced that 3 rubbish CBs is better than 2 rubbish CBs anyway personally. Just more players to cock it up.  If we're going to play a pivot of Rice & Hendo or other defensive players in front anyway then you surely don't need 3 CBs against 99% of international opposition. I would like to see a 4-2-3-1 ideally, Rice playing the right sided DM to cover our RB, which is going to be Trent or James who both like to get forward. Leaves room for Foden, Grealish and Sterling/whichever winger is in form behind Kane. Mount can play in Hendo's place against most of the awful sides we play, or come in for Grealish against better sides potentially.
		
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Would like to see Rice and Bellingham get a run of games together (with Philips as cover when fit). 4 at the back and then 3 from Foden, Mount, Saka, Sancho, Grealish, Gallagher, Smith Rowe etc  behind Kane.

Who the 4 at the back is it totally up for grabs though you would think


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## Orikoru (Mar 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Would like to see Rice and Bellingham get a run of games together (with Philips as cover when fit). 4 at the back and then 3 from Foden, Mount, Saka, Sancho, Grealish, Gallagher, Smith Rowe etc  behind Kane.

Who the 4 at the back is it totally up for grabs though you would think
		
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The fact that Maguire is still getting the nod by default is pretty damning. We're still waiting for someone to emerge. I feel that Dier has been good for us this season, and he's a leader, but he does have the odd mistake in him. Problem is I can't think of someone who _doesn't _have a mistake in them!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Would like to see Rice and Bellingham get a run of games together (with Philips as cover when fit). 4 at the back and then 3 from Foden, Mount, Saka, Sancho, Grealish, Gallagher, Smith Rowe etc  behind Kane.

Who the 4 at the back is it totally up for grabs though you would think
		
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In my humble opinion providing all are fit and playing well the best England team is 

Pickford 

TAA
Gomez
Stones
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson 
Mount/Galllagher

Sterling/Foden
Kane
Saka


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## fundy (Mar 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In my humble opinion providing all are fit and playing well the best England team is

Pickford

TAA
Gomez
Stones
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson
Mount/Galllagher

Sterling/Foden
Kane
Saka
		
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Keeper could be anyone from 3 as it couldve been for a while now but until he makes errors for England Pickfords them man in the shirt
Right back has been discussed ad nauseum, for me Id have James in a back 4
Cant see any mgr picking 2 centre halves who arent first choice for their clubs, I guess theyd be fresh at least
Agree on Chilwell assuming he comes back as good as he was pre injury
Attacking 3 Id prob go with Saka Mount and Foden but several are interchangeable in there


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In my humble opinion providing all are fit and playing well the best England team is

Pickford

TAA
Gomez
Stones
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson
Mount/Galllagher

Sterling/Foden
Kane
Saka
		
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Does Gomez get game time these days? If so - no idea why we dont see more of him with England!


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## stefanovic (Mar 28, 2022)

As a supporter of non league I'd just like to pay tribute to Tom Rankin who died aged 26 at the weekend.
I saw him play a few times for my team Highgate United on loan in January.

Redditch United: Tributes after non-league footballer's death - BBC News


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Does Gomez get game time these days? If so - no idea why we dont see more of him with England!
		
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He doesn't get much though hes come back from a very bad injury and is trying to get in ahead of Matip who has been fully fit this season and performing so well. Then theres Konate ahead of him. 

He's a better defender than that current cart horse that gets picked every game.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He doesn't get much though hes come back from a very bad injury and is trying to get in ahead of Matip who has been fully fit this season and performing so well. Then theres Konate ahead of him.

He's a better defender than that current cart horse that gets picked every game.
		
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Fingers crossed for England that he gets back into the first team at liverpool then! 

Ive seen him linked with Villa recently too


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Exactly. And what guarantee is there of success anyway. Southgate has brought a balanced and calm camp together where players enjoy being together and they are playing as a unit. It may not be pretty but they keep on winning. What else is he supposed to do. *So close to winning two major finals, and you can't say they were handed it on a plate as they have to still win matches*

Click to expand...

Are you sure about that? In the WC2018 The 1st good team they came up against they lost V Belgium 1-0 then Croatia in the semis.

Beat Tunisia 2-1
Beat Panama 6-1 
Lost to Belguim 0-1
Drew Colombia beating them on pens 
Beat Sweden 2-0
Lost Croatia 1-2

Out of those 6 teams, youd expect England to beat 4 of them comfortably and be able beat the other 2 with the right tactics etc.

Euro 2020 it was almost handpicked again.

Scraped past Croatia and Czech Republic. Couldnt beat an average Scotland side, beat the Germans, comfortably beat Ukraine and needed extra time to beat the mighty Denmark. In control against the Ities and got schooled by the masters of the game.😁😁

You're suggesting both tournaments they've played the world/european Elite at every stage.

Southgate's doing a great job, long may he continue.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Fingers crossed for England that he gets back into the first team at liverpool then!

Ive seen him linked with Villa recently too 

Click to expand...

Nah i hope he stay's as 4th choice for us 😉

I seen hes been linked with Villa aswell. What i would say, from what i've seen of Mings, Gomez is comfortably better than him.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah i hope he stay's as 4th choice for us 😉

I seen hes been linked with Villa aswell. What i would say, from what i've seen of Mings, Gomez is comfortably better than him.
		
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I dont see our Captain being displaced before the other CB (Currently either Konsa or Chambers) but fair point. 

Everyone hates on Mings


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont see our Captain being displaced before the other CB (Currently either Konsa or Chambers) but fair point.

Everyone hates on Mings 

Click to expand...

Dont hate him, just dont think he's any good from what i've seen and he's no better than Maguire.


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## Orikoru (Mar 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In my humble opinion providing all are fit and playing well the best England team is

Pickford

TAA
Gomez
Stones
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson
Mount/Galllagher

Sterling/Foden
Kane
Saka
		
Click to expand...

The only one I'd really question is Gomez. Have we ever seen him have a good game without Van Dijk next to him? Playing with Van Dijk and Allison is a world away from playing with Stones and Pickford, he'd have to step up considerably. 

Still not sure why Tomori wasn't given a go in this squad. Playing well with Milan who are top of the league.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 28, 2022)

Gotta say I'm in the Tomori camp. Was surprised Chelsea let him go tbh. Looks like him and Abraham's showing once again how wonderful Chelsea's youth system works until they need to play them. 

I'd like to see stones and Gomez play. But agree hard to justify when getting no games. 

For me Henderson get in on the big games for experience, but would rather actually see Bellingham, Mount, JWP or Phillips. The first 2 prefer to play slightly further but imo neither are better than Foden who I think would be perfect through the middle and slightly wasted out wide with our wingbacks roaming.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The only one I'd really question is Gomez. Have we ever seen him have a good game without Van Dijk next to him? Playing with Van Dijk and Allison is a world away from playing with Stones and Pickford, he'd have to step up considerably.

Still not sure why Tomori wasn't given a go in this squad. Playing well with Milan who are top of the league.
		
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Papas1982 said:



			Gotta say I'm in the Tomori camp. Was surprised Chelsea let him go tbh. Looks like him and Abraham's showing once again how wonderful Chelsea's youth system works until they need to play them.

I'd like to see stones and Gomez play. But agree hard to justify when getting no games.

For me Henderson get in on the big games for experience, but would rather actually see Bellingham, Mount, JWP or Phillips. The first 2 prefer to play slightly further but imo neither are better than Foden who I think would be perfect through the middle and slightly wasted out wide with our wingbacks roaming.
		
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Simple reason for Tomori I think - its a poor league and hes not defending against top quality players on a regular basis. 

I know Tammy has made the squad - but his goalscoring record cant be ignored as we lack depth for real "number 9's"



Stuart_C said:



			Dont hate him, just dont think he's any good from what i've seen and he's no better than Maguire.
		
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Id take that considering one was £25m and the other was 80


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The only one I'd really question is Gomez. *Have we ever seen him have a good game without Van Dijk next to him? *Playing with Van Dijk and Allison is a world away from playing with Stones and Pickford, he'd have to step up considerably.

Still not sure why Tomori wasn't given a go in this squad. Playing well with Milan who are top of the league.
		
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It wouldnt matter anyway Virg isnt English😉

I've seen plenty of Gomez live and he's very good. Got pace, reads the game well, great distribution, doesn't panic, positionally very good.


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## Orikoru (Mar 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Simple reason for Tomori I think - its a poor league and hes not defending against top quality players on a regular basis.

I know Tammy has made the squad - but his goalscoring record cant be ignored as we lack depth for real "number 9's"
		
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Granted but playing regularly at the top of Serie A still trumps 12th place in the Prem doesn't it? Or sitting on the bench most weeks albeit for a top team in England? Got to be worth a call-up at least.


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## Orikoru (Mar 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It wouldnt matter anyway Virg isnt English😉

I've seen plenty of Gomez live and he's very good. Got pace, reads the game well, great distribution, doesn't panic, positionally very good.
		
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It's just hard to see him developing the experience and maturity you need given that he's always injured. Destined to be another Wilshere or Sturridge at the moment.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It's just hard to see him developing the experience and maturity you need given that he's always injured. Destined to be another Wilshere or Sturridge at the moment.
		
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Gomez is superb , reading of the game , his passing , strong and crucially his pace is very good 

He had two serious injuries early in his career then got a broken ankle after a bad tackle - he was then every present whilst we won the league until another bad tackle during England training. His injuries aren’t the constant muscle ones that the likes of Wilshire used to get

Don’t see any other CB being as good as him - he just needs to get on the pitch more for us but it’s tough with the others playing well.


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## Orikoru (Mar 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gomez is superb , reading of the game , his passing , strong and crucially his pace is very good

He had two serious injuries early in his career then got a broken ankle after a bad tackle - he was then every present whilst we won the league until another bad tackle during England training. His injuries aren’t the constant muscle ones that the likes of Wilshire used to get

Don’t see any other CB being as good as him - he just needs to get on the pitch more for us but it’s tough with the others playing well.
		
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That's the problem for him now I guess. Has to not only get fit but also displace Matip who has had a brilliant season. Or potentially, leave Liverpool to get first team football.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Granted but playing regularly at the top of Serie A still trumps 12th place in the Prem doesn't it? Or sitting on the bench most weeks albeit for a top team in England? Got to be worth a call-up at least.
		
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I dont think it does though. Even a Burnley CB plays against better opposition every week than Tomori.

Norwich's CB's are playing more games this season against Champions League Quarter Finalists than Tomori is......


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



*It's just hard to see him developing the experience and maturity you need *given that he's always injured. Destined to be another Wilshere or Sturridge at the moment.
		
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He's got loads of CL experience, he's part of this current Liverpool squad and definitely matured enough to be playing in a Klopp side.

Up until his injury on international duty Nov 20 he was 1st choice pairing with VVD.

I hope he doesnt get picked for England to be honest. Same with TAA.  Id rather protect them and have them fit for us rather than sit on Englands bench watching Maguire 😁


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## Orikoru (Mar 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont think it does though. Even a Burnley CB plays against better opposition every week than Tomori.

Norwich's CB's are playing more games this season against Champions League Quarter Finalists than Tomori is......
		
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Yeah but they're not playing _well_.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont think it does though. Even a Burnley CB plays against better opposition every week than Tomori.

Norwich's CB's are playing more games this season against Champions League Quarter Finalists than Tomori is......
		
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In that case, better have a look at the Boro CB's too as they did well against UTD and Arsenal. 

I concede Italian isn't too league, but it's not a farmers league. 

Would certainly have called him up and had a look. He has also played on the PL and looked decent.


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## fundy (Mar 28, 2022)

gotta laugh at the "our centre back is the best but please dont pick him contingent"  

large dose of cant make mistakes when your not playing going on imho


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## Swango1980 (Mar 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont think it does though. Even a Burnley CB plays against better opposition every week than Tomori.

Norwich's CB's are playing more games this season against Champions League Quarter Finalists than Tomori is......
		
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It is true that mid and bottom table Premiership players play against high quality opposition most weeks, and therefore if they have a good run of form one might argue how good they are. I see it often for goalkeepers who play well for teams in the bottom half.

However, these teams are often up against it for longer parts of each game, and often for most of the game. They see plenty of action, and so long as the team are organised and things go their way, they get a good chance to shine. Keepers may have plenty of shots to save. There is less pressure as well, as they are often underdogs from the start.

However, if a team has aspirations to play at the very top, and I am sure England do, then they should be playing a different type of football than lower ranked PL sides. You'd hope defenders would not be constantly under pressure. So, you need defenders who are good in possession, but have the concentration to stop the odd isolated attack. They also need to be good at defending under more pressure, as this is likely when playing the other big national sides.

So, it is easier to select a player who plays for a top PL team, or even a top club side in another big league. It is more likely that player has that competitive mentality, that winning mentality and all the attributes to play at the highest level of international football. It wasn't that long ago that England had plenty of strong centre backs to choose from, so it is interesting these days they are in short supply. I wonder why this is? When I grew up in the 80's and early 90's, the football coaching wasn't exactly politically correct. If you didn't have much skill but were happy to kick lumps out of people, you were a defender. If you were also tall, centre back. If you were fast, on the wing, etc. I don't know how junior football works in this day and age, but I hear it is less about competition and aggressiveness, and more about providing more rounded coaching. I'm sure this has benefits, although is it a bit "jack of all trades, master of none".


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 28, 2022)

So he's one of Putin's mates is he... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60904676


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 28, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			So he's one of Putin's mates is he... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60904676

Click to expand...

Sore eyes and dry skin could be hay fever.
I would not belive anything from a Russian source atm.


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## Jensen (Mar 28, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			So he's one of Putin's mates is he... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60904676

Click to expand...

Certainly contributed towards his wealth 👍


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			gotta laugh at the "our centre back is the best but please dont pick him contingent"  

large dose of cant make mistakes when your not playing going on imho
		
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You know players become better players when theyre injured/unavailable😁


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## Rlburnside (Mar 28, 2022)

Th


Blue in Munich said:



			So he's one of Putin's mates is he... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60904676

Click to expand...

Being at the talks would have not gone down well with Putin and put him at risk and any previous friendship with Putin would count for nothing. 

To be honest I find it hard to believe you seem to still believe he’s done nothing wrong.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 28, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Th


Being at the talks would have not gone down well with Putin and put him at risk and any previous friendship with Putin would count for nothing.

To be honest I find it hard to believe you seem to still believe he’s done nothing wrong.
		
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I don’t think that’s what BIM is suggesting 

There was the belief from some that RA would be rank and file behind Putin and supporting him 

Where as I think RA is not stupid and doesn’t want this war because it’s going to effect him , the same with the other oligarchs that are being sanctioned - it’s hitting them and they want the war to end 

The person who the oligarchs were best buddies with was Yeltsin - he was one who helped facilitate them gaining the wealth , Putin imo would like nothing more than to see them pay back their dues to “mother russia”


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508489343077216256
the next appointment Man Utd make is prob going to be one of their biggest since ORN arrived at the club - the list of available managers is very small , even more so the ones at the top of the tree - Ten Hag is one of them but there is every chance they are going to miss out on him 

The worry for Utd fans is the club will be wanting a quick fix , someone like Ten Hag will need time to build back up so imo they will be trying to bring in someone like Tuchel who will turn them down , Zidane who won’t go near the job and Pochettino who’s stock is falling


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## Neilds (Mar 29, 2022)

A study by Hallam Uni has found that championship clubs that get parachute payments from the Premier League do better than those without 😳
Who would have thought the 7 clubs who got an average of £33 million each this season would do well?
Some of these studies into the bleeding obvious make me laugh


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## chrisd (Mar 29, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Th


Being at the talks would have not gone down well with Putin and put him at risk and any previous friendship with Putin would count for nothing. 

To be honest I find it hard to believe you seem to still believe he’s done nothing wrong.
		
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Well, he's clearly not someone's friend, judging by last night news where someone has tried to kill him with a nerve agent!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 29, 2022)

Neilds said:



			A study by Hallam Uni has found that championship clubs that get parachute payments from the Premier League do better than those without 😳
Who would have thought the 7 clubs who got an average of £33 million each this season would do well?
Some of these studies into the bleeding obvious make me laugh
		
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I think also there was some kind of study a few years ago which showed teams that get automatic promotion are better prepared than teams that get promoted via the play offs as they know they will be getting more money a few weeks earlier 😖


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think also there was some kind of study a few years ago which showed teams that get automatic promotion are better prepared than teams that get promoted via the play offs as they know they will be getting more money a few weeks earlier 😖
		
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Didn't do Fulham any good last time after winning the play off. That said, going up and then trying to buy a whole new team was always going to be a recipe for disaster. The gap between the top two in the championship and the bottom 6-8 teams in the PL is usually pretty narrow. The issue some clubs have is they squeeze in at the minute into the play-offs and so haven't really planned for the contingency of promotion. Of course those around the play off places and fringes hope to be involved but it must be hard to get in late and have definitive plans and transfer targets in place. Of course that also assumes they get through the play-offs and go up


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## fundy (Mar 29, 2022)

Not the statement you expect to read from a non league football club 

http://stainestownfootballclub.co.uk/urgent-club-statement/


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## Swango1980 (Mar 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Not the statement you expect to read from a non league football club 

http://stainestownfootballclub.co.uk/urgent-club-statement/

Click to expand...

There is an error in that link


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## fundy (Mar 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			There is an error in that link
		
Click to expand...


links fine, dont think their server can cope


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508774916509904911
can read it here


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 29, 2022)

Harvey Elliot trending on Twitter,seems like he’s the latest professional footballer that thinks he can talk to his partner like 💩 🤦‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Mar 29, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Harvey Elliot trending on Twitter,seems like he’s the latest professional footballer that thinks he can talk to his partner like 💩 🤦‍♂️
		
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Ffs, why do these young fellas think their untouchable 

Think too much money too young

Think agents need to do more to protect their clients in the sense of from not becoming idiots.

Bit of life coaching.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 29, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Harvey Elliot trending on Twitter,seems like he’s the latest professional footballer that thinks he can talk to his partner like 💩 🤦‍♂️
		
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From what I have read, he was having a dig at Mason Greenwood.....


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 29, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			From what I have read, he was having a dig at Mason Greenwood.....
		
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It was the giving his girlfriend verbal abuse because she’d followed some of his team mates on social media,that I read 😬


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 29, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			From what I have read, he was having a dig at Mason Greenwood.....
		
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It seems he was getting stick after he posted a picture of his G/F , he then posted something back in reference to Greenwood ( didn’t name him )

Then someone shared some pictures of text message conversations where he was having an argument with his g/f about following people on social media - certainly nothing horrific been said unless there are other pictures around. 

There are also some now claiming he is cheating on here and has a baby with another girl 🤷‍♂️ - all seems your standard teenage behaviour but of course some trying to find some way to link it to what Greenwood has been accused off


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 29, 2022)

England definitely looking more forward thinking tonight even before the red card.


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## Billysboots (Mar 29, 2022)




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## nickjdavis (Mar 29, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			England definitely looking more forward thinking tonight even before the red card.
		
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Yes...far more creativity....lets hope Bellingham continues to develop.

Dominant even before the red card. Will be interesting to see how they cope playing against ten men...its not always easy, but as long as they dont try to overcomplicate things I'd expect to see a couple of more goals.


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## fundy (Mar 29, 2022)

Mane > Salah again


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## Papas1982 (Mar 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Mane > Salah again 

Click to expand...

At least we know why he wanted to take the last one this time 🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Mane > Salah again 

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508895040994689025
😳 just a few lasers


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## fundy (Mar 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508895040994689025
😳 just a few lasers
		
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Every oppo fan in the prem now buying a laser before they play Liverpool NAP


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 29, 2022)

Why didn’t he refuse to take the pen until they stopped the lasers?


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 29, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Yes...far more creativity....*lets hope Bellingham continues to develop.*

Dominant even before the red card. Will be interesting to see how they cope playing against ten men...its not always easy, but as long as they dont try to overcomplicate things I'd expect to see a couple of more goals.
		
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Not seen a great deal of him before but solely based on his performance tonight he looks one hell of a player. I would expect a big money transfer back to the PL in the next couple of years.


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## nickjdavis (Mar 29, 2022)

Tempo has gone from the game....subs wont help it.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 29, 2022)

Mane laughing when Salah missed the pen 😬


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## fundy (Mar 29, 2022)

looks like the best striker in Europe will be at the world cup, Poland beating Sweden


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## nickjdavis (Mar 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			looks like the best striker in Europe will be at the world cup, Poland beating Sweden 

Click to expand...

Good....always want to see the best players at the WC.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 29, 2022)

Watkins and Mings for England 😍

Up the Villa


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## fundy (Mar 29, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Watkins and Mings for England 😍

Up the Villa
		
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and Grealish


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## Golfmmad (Mar 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			and Grealish 

Click to expand...

Don't forget Bellingham! 👍


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 29, 2022)

Football quiz (no Googling). Just seen this fact pop up on my timeline. 

Name the only three players in history to have scored a goal in each minute of a match. 

I.E. They have scored a goal in the 1st minute of a match, the 2nd minute, the 3rd minute all the way through to the 90th minute.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 29, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Football quiz (no Googling). Just seen this fact pop up on my timeline.

Name the only three players in history to have scored a goal in each minute of a match.

I.E. They have scored a goal in the 1st minute of a match, the 2nd minute, the 3rd minute all the way through to the 90th minute.
		
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Suarez is one for definite

I’m going to guess Ronaldo as one of the others 

Then it’s anyone from Messi , Raul , 

Maybe Benzema


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## Papas1982 (Mar 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Suarez is one for definite

I’m going to guess Ronaldo as one of the others

Then it’s anyone from Messi , Raul ,

Maybe Benzema
		
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Zlatan is other. 

pretty sure it was him first. Suarez only just joined them last week I think.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 29, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Zlatan is other.

pretty sure it was him first. Suarez only just joined them last week I think.
		
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Yep. Zlatan, Ronaldo and Suarez.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 29, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Football quiz (no Googling). Just seen this fact pop up on my timeline. 

Name the only three players in history to have scored a goal in each minute of a match. 

I.E. They have scored a goal in the 1st minute of a match, the 2nd minute, the 3rd minute all the way through to the 90th minute.
		
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I think a female footballer achieved this in one match


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## Orikoru (Mar 30, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Why didn’t he refuse to take the pen until they stopped the lasers?
		
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In the vid it doesn't look like he's squinting or trying to block them out, maybe he didn't even notice them or they didn't bother him. Then he missed the penalty just because people miss penalties sometimes. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Mar 31, 2022)

Premier League to allow 5 substitutions from next season. I hope it doesn't increase the possibility of destroying the tempo of some decent games.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 31, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Premier League to allow 5 substitutions from next season. I hope it doesn't increase the possibility of destroying the tempo of some decent games.
		
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Absolutely will!

Not a fan of this one bit to be honest. I can just see clubs wasting the last 10 minutes making unneccessary subs if they're up in the game


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## Tashyboy (Mar 31, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Premier League to allow 5 substitutions from next season. I hope it doesn't increase the possibility of destroying the tempo of some decent games.
		
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Nah VAR has already done that. ☹️


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## Swango1980 (Mar 31, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Absolutely will!

Not a fan of this one bit to be honest. I can just see clubs wasting the last 10 minutes making unneccessary subs if they're up in the game
		
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They can only be made on 3 occasions during the game (plus half time), which I assume is to mitigate that issue. I'm guessing it will help teams with big squads.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 31, 2022)

Just read a piece which said that the premier league is the only one which does not allow 5 subs. Don’t know how true that is.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 31, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Premier League to allow 5 substitutions from next season. I hope it doesn't increase the possibility of destroying the tempo of some decent games.
		
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Bdill93 said:



			Absolutely will!

Not a fan of this one bit to be honest. I can just see clubs wasting the last 10 minutes making unneccessary subs if they're up in the game
		
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30 minutes each way. Timekeeper.  Ball moving, clock on, ball not moving, clock off.  It's not difficult unless the FA & the Premier League make it so.

(Yes, you're right, I've said this before.  And I reserve the right to say it again.  Ad nauseam.  Until the authorities do something about time wasting.)


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## IanM (Mar 31, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			30 minutes each way. Timekeeper.  Ball moving, clock on, ball not moving, clock off.  It's not difficult unless the FA & the Premier League make it so.

(Yes, you're right, I've said this before.  And I reserve the right to say it again.  Ad nauseam.  Until the authorities do something about time wasting.)
		
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Just keep 45 minutes and manage the time the way you say, once the hard-of-thinking realise the histrionics are to no avail, it'll stop.  

Then. let the VAR Official make decisions in the same fashion as the TMO in rugby.

Red card for falling to the ground holding your face for no reason. 

ah, jumpers for goal posts, it is all so easy to fix.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 31, 2022)

IanM said:



			Just keep 45 minutes and manage the time the way you say, once the hard-of-thinking realise the histrionics are to no avail, it'll stop. 

Then. let the VAR Official make decisions in the same fashion as the TMO in rugby.

Red card for falling to the ground holding your face for no reason.

ah, jumpers for goal posts, it is all so easy to fix.
		
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I'm pretty sure time wasting if often more to do with breaking up the play, and therefore either stopping the momentum of the opposition, or stopping them gaining momentum. So, I am pretty sure you'd still have time wasting, diving, feigning injury to get free kicks and opposition booked, etc. However, the game might last 3 hours.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 31, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm pretty sure time wasting if often more to do with breaking up the play, and therefore either stopping the momentum of the opposition, or stopping them gaining momentum. So, I am pretty sure you'd still have time wasting, diving, feigning injury to get free kicks and opposition booked, etc. However, the game might last 3 hours.
		
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Feigning injuries, get VAR to deal with them; failing to promptly restart the game, yellow card.  It can be done if the authorities have the stomach for it.


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## Orikoru (Mar 31, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Premier League to allow 5 substitutions from next season. I hope it doesn't increase the possibility of destroying the tempo of some decent games.
		
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What the hell? Why? That's rubbish. Just favours the likes of City who can bring on five fresh world class players from the bench.


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## Swango1980 (Mar 31, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Feigning injuries, get VAR to deal with them; failing to promptly restart the game, yellow card.  It can be done if the authorities have the stomach for it.
		
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Players are already subject to a yellow card for time wasting, so that is nothing new. And, it will still always be subjective and the referee will have a degree of tolerance. Feigning injuries is difficult. Unless it is a clear dive, who is to tell a player wasn't hurt or not? I've been on the end of heavy challenges and not been hurt at all, and yet I've been on the end of ridiculously light challenges and it has hurt like a bugger. Last week I had a fairly innocent clash of knees, and could barely walk for the next couple of minutes.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 31, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			What the hell? Why? That's rubbish. Just favours the likes of City who can bring on five fresh world class players from the bench.
		
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Spurs can do the same with there world class subs, 😳 oh hang on They didn’t need any against City 😉


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## Tashyboy (Mar 31, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Players are already subject to a yellow card for time wasting, so that is nothing new. And, it will still always be subjective and the referee will have a degree of tolerance. Feigning injuries is difficult. Unless it is a clear dive, who is to tell a player wasn't hurt or not? I've been on the end of heavy challenges and not been hurt at all, and yet I've been on the end of ridiculously light challenges and it has hurt like a bugger. Last week I had a fairly innocent clash of knees, and could barely walk for the next couple of minutes.
		
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👍 Ave said before.There’s a difference between a hurt player and an injured player. Unfortunately some go down like they are gonna spend the rest of there lives paralysed only to be cured after 3 mins with the magic sponge 😡


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 31, 2022)

Manage it like rugby and stop the clock when the ball goes out of play or when there is any break in play (VAR check, injury etc)


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## Swango1980 (Mar 31, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			👍 Ave said before.There’s a difference between a hurt player and an injured player. Unfortunately some go down like they are gonna spend the rest of there lives paralysed only to be cured after 3 mins with the magic sponge 😡
		
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I completely agree. But asking someone to judge whether a player is faking it or not is impossible. There may be the odd blindingly obvious ones, but others much harder to tell. Also, some people are naturally drama queens when it comes to actual pain. I'm sure fans will generally cry out for punishment when they suspect such play acting, until it is one of their own team and then suddenly they'll be crying out their player was genuinely hurt


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 31, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I completely agree. But asking someone to judge whether a player is faking it or not is impossible. There may be the odd blindingly obvious ones, but others much harder to tell. Also, some people are naturally drama queens when it comes to actual pain. I'm sure fans will generally cry out for punishment when they suspect such play acting, until it is one of their own team and then suddenly they'll be crying out their player was genuinely hurt
		
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Saw some classic Big Match games from the 70's recently and players were crunching in and play was hardly stopped. Certainly didn't go down and feign injury. These days, anything like a robust challenge (not leaving the floor or catching with the trailing leg) sees a player down and rolling over and over and so play gets stopped. There are serial actors and those that still only go down when hurt. The problem is telling one from the other and referees will always take the decision to stop play.


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			...
Not a fan of this one bit to be honest. I can just see clubs wasting the last 10 minutes making unneccessary subs if they're up in the game
		
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How will that waste time? The clock is effectively OFF for the substitution. It likely actually IS off, but the Rule is written as 'Allowance is made by the referee in each half for all playing time lost...'


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## pauljames87 (Mar 31, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			How will that waste time? The clock is effectively OFF for the substitution. It likely actually IS off, but the Rule is written as 'Allowance is made by the referee in each half for all playing time lost...'
		
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Considering you are one for corrections you should know it's the laws of the game . 

30 seconds was the guidelines for goals or subs 

So 4 subs 2 goals 3 mins

8 subs 2 goals adding a whole 2 extra mins doesn't seem cricket


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 31, 2022)

Incredible stat showing the difference between the haves and the have nots in football....


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			...

30 seconds was the guidelines for goals or subs

So 4 subs 2 goals 3 mins

8 subs 2 goals adding a whole 2 extra mins doesn't seem cricket
		
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Well the Law (7) states '... all playing time lost...', so however long it takes - and 30 secs does seem about right for a 'normal' substitution. Where did you get those 'guidelines' from?


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 31, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Incredible stat showing the difference between the haves and the have nots in football....

View attachment 42052

Click to expand...

FIFA should bring something in so that the players pay agents fees, not the clubs - if they dont like it use Linked in, Adecco, like the rest of us.

Hello Christiano, I've got your CV in front of me and I think a client of ours may have something that may interest you. Are you okay to talk now or shall I call back after 5pm, if you can't talk........


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 31, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			FIFA should bring something in *so that the players pay agents fees, not the clubs* - if they dont like it use Linked in, Adecco, like the rest of us.

Hello Christiano, I've got your CV in front of me and I think a client of ours may have something that may interest you. Are you okay to talk now or shall I call back after 5pm, if you can't talk........
		
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I like this idea. It would be interesting to see how many of them kept an agent on full time and how many of them simply brought someone in, maybe a lawyer with experience in contract negotiations etc.


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Incredible stat showing the difference between the haves and the have nots in football....

View attachment 42052

Click to expand...

I'd suggest that's actually a relative drop in the ocean when compared to the total turnover of the Premier League and associated entities (such as players wages/bonuses). Man U, for example paid out slightly more than that as 'Wages and Salaries' with a turnover of nearly twice that amount! Its Adidas sponsorship is nominally 75M/Year. Premier League is big business!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 31, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Manage it like rugby and stop the clock when the ball goes out of play or when there is any break in play (VAR check, injury etc)
		
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Remember pre VAR when all and sundry was using Rugby as the example? "It works well in Rugby"  was the argument. Look how well thats worked out 🤦🏼‍♂️

Lets run football on the same basis as we have for over 100yrs and tweak it accordingly. What we've done is change the laws of the game to suit the technology.


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			FIFA should bring something in so that the players pay agents fees, not the clubs - if they dont like it use Linked in, Adecco, like the rest of us.

Hello Christiano, I've got your CV in front of me and I think a client of ours may have something that may interest you. Are you okay to talk now or shall I call back after 5pm, if you can't talk........
		
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That wouldn't work! The fees would simply be added to the 'Cost of the Player'.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 31, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Feigning injuries, *get VAR to deal with them;* failing to promptly restart the game, yellow card.  It can be done if the authorities have the stomach for it.
		
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They rarely get blatant wrong decisions right, are you really expecting theyd manage to sort cheating out?


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			They rarely get blatant wrong decisions right, are you really expecting theyd manage to sort cheating out?
		
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It would only take 1 or 2 cases before the message got through! If not directly to the players, but certainly to Managers who suddenly find the same cheaters getting found out and banned either immediately, or as a result of acquiring too many in specified periods.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 31, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			That wouldn't work! The fees would simply be added to the 'Cost of the Player'.
		
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Maybe, maybe not.

Now agents get fees from both parties, if the club decides to pay a bit more its optional instead of what looks mandatory now.

Are you saying that the current situation is ideal?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 31, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Well the Law (7) states '... all playing time lost...', so however long it takes - and 30 secs does seem about right for a 'normal' substitution. Where did you get those 'guidelines' from?
		
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When I did my referees course


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## Stuart_C (Mar 31, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			When I did my referees course
		
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Was Homer on the same course😉


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## Fade and Die (Mar 31, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Absolutely will!

Not a fan of this one bit to be honest. I can just see clubs wasting the last 10 minutes making unneccessary subs if they're up in the game
		
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Not being funny but Villa are one of the worst teams for breaking up play and slowing the game down. I honestly do not know how you can watch it?
West Ham V Villa a few weeks ago I could not believe how many times Villa players went down feigning injury, especially at corners one player was always left on the floor clutching his head or rolling around like a crocodile in a death roll! Pathetic stuff which fooled the ref most of the times, on the odd occasion he waved play on the Villain was up like a spring lamb! 
Took West Ham scoring to make you pack it up.


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			...
Now agents get fees from both parties, if the club decides to pay a bit more its optional instead of what looks mandatory now.

Are you saying that the current situation is ideal?
		
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I wouldn't say it's ideal...just 'the way it is'!
In the 'free market', it seems to be simply 'the way it is'!


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			When I did my referees course
		
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And have you found them to be appropriate?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 31, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Was Homer on the same course😉
		
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Behave you lol


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## pauljames87 (Mar 31, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			And have you found them to be appropriate?
		
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Whenever you watch football on TV I find no it's nowhere near enough

Grass roots level maybe 

Subs in premier League love wasting time. Fake injuries 

Then you get the usual 4-5 mins 

If it was actual stoppage you would be looking at 7-8 minimum a half.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 31, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			They rarely get blatant wrong decisions right, are you really expecting theyd manage to sort cheating out?
		
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If the relevant authorities acquired either some intestinal or testicular fortitude it could be done.  What we probably need to know is why they won't deal with it?


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Whenever you watch football on TV I find no it's nowhere near enough

Grass roots level maybe

Subs in premier League love wasting time. Fake injuries

Then you get the usual 4-5 mins

If it was actual stoppage you would be looking at 7-8 minimum a half.
		
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Well, if (as they seem to do when I've checked) they simply stop their watch rather than 'make allowance', they seem to get much nearer that amount of time than what 'the guidelines' indicate.

Fake injuries are a completely different topic from Subs though!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 31, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			If the relevant authorities acquired either some intestinal or testicular fortitude it could be done.  What we probably need to know is why they won't deal with it?
		
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Problem is its a worldwide issue and its impossible for 1 league to go all out and stop it. That Richarlison tackle the otherweek was almost assault and the ref waved play on. Madness.

We're currently seeing some really bad tackles being waved on as a fair tackle.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 31, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Well, if (as they seem to do when I've checked) they simply stop their watch rather than 'make allowance', they seem to get much nearer that amount of time than what 'the guidelines' indicate.

Fake injuries are a completely different topic from Subs though!
		
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Their suppose to time any stoppages on a second watch , the match watch is always rubbing


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Their suppose to time any stoppages on a second watch , *the match watch is always rubbing*

Click to expand...

Can cause blisters! 
As long as the 2nd watch is a 'start/stop' (or stop/start) one it shouldn't matter. But just something else to have to deal with.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 31, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I wouldn't say it's ideal...just 'the way it is'!
In the 'free market', it seems to be simply 'the way it is'!
		
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It seems to be that free market economics is a catch all panacea on this forum for disgusting money excess.


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## Foxholer (Apr 1, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			It seems to be that free market economics is a catch all panacea on this forum for disgusting money excess.
		
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Probably because it reflects real life!
FWIW. I don't think 'panacea' is the appropriate expresson. 'Cop-out' perhaps? Attitude? Excuse? Footballers are, after all, 'independent contractors'


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## Bdill93 (Apr 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Not being funny but Villa are one of the worst teams for breaking up play and slowing the game down. I honestly do not know how you can watch it?
West Ham V Villa a few weeks ago I could not believe how many times Villa players went down feigning injury, especially at corners one player was always left on the floor clutching his head or rolling around like a crocodile in a death roll! Pathetic stuff which fooled the ref most of the times, on the odd occasion he waved play on the Villain was up like a spring lamb!
Took West Ham scoring to make you pack it up.
		
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Well its about 10x better than when we had Jack in the team too. 

Every team has players that do that, thats modern football  I dont think we play a slow game, we might have against you but commonly its quite a high tempo passing game under Gerrard.


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## Neilds (Apr 1, 2022)

Just read the rules for the World Cup draw which is being conducted later.  Seems overly complicated to me with what teams can and can't be paired together, the draw could take longer than the actual competition!.  Why don't they just put all the balls in a bag and draw them out, 1st team out in Group A, 2nd Group B, etc and just fill the groups up like that?


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## Orikoru (Apr 1, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Just read the rules for the World Cup draw which is being conducted later.  Seems overly complicated to me with what teams can and can't be paired together, the draw could take longer than the actual competition!.  Why don't they just put all the balls in a bag and draw them out, 1st team out in Group A, 2nd Group B, etc and just fill the groups up like that?
		
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Because when big teams go out in the group stages it reduces the TV viewing figures so they have to help them out with seedings. It's only going to get worse from the next one when they boost it to 48 teams as well. Absolute waste of time. Essential have entire extra qualifying round where a handful of minnows get eliminated. Just more greed ruining football basically, nothing to see here.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 1, 2022)

Apparently it takes some time to warm up the balls you don’t want picking out 😉


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## Swango1980 (Apr 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Because when big teams go out in the group stages it reduces the TV viewing figures so they have to help them out with seedings. It's only going to get worse from the next one when they boost it to 48 teams as well. Absolute waste of time. Essential have entire extra qualifying round where a handful of minnows get eliminated. Just more greed ruining football basically, nothing to see here.
		
Click to expand...

Given that the World Cup is in Qatar, midway through the league season, I have a much better idea.

Restrict the World Cup to best team in Europe, North America (including Central America), South America, Middle East, East Asia, Africa, Oceania and Qatar.

That is 8 teams, straight knockout. Quarter Finals, Semi Final and Final.

Get it over and done with, then get back to league football asap.

However, I've a feeling that proposal would be frowned upon by FIFA and the national associations.


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## Neilds (Apr 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Given that the World Cup is in Qatar, midway through the league season, I have a much better idea.

Restrict the World Cup to best team in Europe, North America (including Central America), South America, Middle East, East Asia, Africa, Oceania and Qatar.

That is 8 teams, straight knockout. Quarter Finals, Semi Final and Final.

Get it over and done with, then get back to league football asap.

However, I've a feeling that proposal would be frowned upon by FIFA and the national associations.
		
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You will be wanting the Champions League to be just the league champions next !😂😂😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Apr 1, 2022)

Neilds said:



			You will be wanting the Champions League to be just the league champions next !😂😂😂😂
		
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I've always likes that idea, even though it would be a nightmare for Man Utd.

Always felt the Champions League should be the Champions of each European League. A lot more romantic that way. Early stages you could have ties like Linfield (N Ireland) versus Real Madrid, or Fola Esch (Luxembourg) versus Man City. Never going to happen though. We have to put up with underperforming teams (and therefore I'd say undeserving) scraping into 3rd or 4th in their leagues getting into the Champions League


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509848048427581443
April Fool Jokes getting worse each year


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 1, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Probably because it reflects real life!
FWIW. I don't think 'panacea' is the appropriate expresson. 'Cop-out' perhaps? Attitude? Excuse? Footballers are, after all, 'independent contractors'
		
Click to expand...

As I said, it seems to be used as a cure all in any arguments on here when it comes to high pricing. If someone says that its free market economics they see that as the end of the argument for some reason.

Yes, independent contractors, so let you agent find you work.


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## Foxholer (Apr 1, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			As I said, it seems to be used as a cure all in any arguments on here when it comes to high pricing. If someone says that its free market economics they see that as the end of the argument for some reason.

Yes, independent contractors, so let you agent find you work.
		
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I wouldn't use the term 'cure all' either, but I agree with your point (having 'been guilty' of it often enough). Bruce Hornsby had something to say, well...play and sing, about it!


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 1, 2022)

Man City pay £35 m. in Agents’ fees for the 12 months ended 31/1/22. Somebody taking the proverbial!


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## Swango1980 (Apr 1, 2022)

World football legend Jermaine Jenas presenting the World Cup draw


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## AmandaJR (Apr 1, 2022)

What the hell...take out the red ball which seems to always be position 1 in the group?! So why bother??!!


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## RichA (Apr 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			World football legend Jermaine Jenas presenting the World Cup draw
		
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Why not? They aren't playing - just presenting a TV show.
He's a nice guy and I get the feeling he's being groomed as BBC's next Lineker.
He's also from Nottingham, which possibly biases me towards him.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 1, 2022)

RichA said:



			Why not? They aren't playing - just presenting a TV show.
He's a nice guy and I get the feeling he's being groomed as BBC's next Lineker.
He's also from Nottingham, which possibly biases me towards him.
		
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Gotta say I think he's a plum!

Well spoken. Just a shame he shouts rubbish.


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## backwoodsman (Apr 1, 2022)

World Cup draw. 

Anyone seen anything more tedious in recent times? Just pull some bl**dy names out of a bag ...


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			World Cup draw.

Anyone seen anything more tedious in recent times? Just pull some bl**dy names out of a bag ...
		
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All about satisfying the sponsors etc 

Iran in the group with USA and England 😂😂


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## Papas1982 (Apr 1, 2022)

Southgate with another free pass to the knockouts....


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## Golfmmad (Apr 1, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Southgate with another free pass to the knockouts....
		
Click to expand...

Next you'll say its fixed!


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## AliMc (Apr 1, 2022)

Might have to be a redraw ?
I thought that Argentina/Mexico couldn't be in the same group, that's what they said at the start anyway


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## Swango1980 (Apr 1, 2022)

Who is Will Smith going to punch? By the time the draw is done, we should know the playoff results


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2022)

What a stunning opening game - Qatar vs Ecuador 😂




AliMc said:



			Might have to be a redraw ?
I thought that Argentina/Mexico couldn't be in the same group, that's what they said at the start anyway
		
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they should be ok as they are different confederations


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## AliMc (Apr 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a stunning opening game - Qatar vs Ecuador 😂



they should be ok as they are different confederations
		
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Oh ok


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## BiMGuy (Apr 1, 2022)

Whining before the tournament has even started 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2022)

So Englands group 

Iran
USA
Wales/Scotland or Ukraine

😂


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## rksquire (Apr 1, 2022)

Great draw for Wales or Scotland or they make it, they'll fancy that group!


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## Tashyboy (Apr 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			World football legend Jermaine Jenas presenting the World Cup draw
		
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You have obviously never seen him smash the one show. 😂


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## AmandaJR (Apr 1, 2022)

So do Wales play the winner of Scotland v Ukraine??


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 1, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			So do Wales play the winner of Scotland v Ukraine??
		
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Yes


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 1, 2022)

If we can't qualify from that group we don't deserve to be at the world cup


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## BiMGuy (Apr 1, 2022)

So Scotland might get to win another major tournament by drawing with England in the group stages. Very exciting.


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## chrisd (Apr 1, 2022)

Could have been a lot worse - we might have had a proper football nation to play 😁


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## AliMc (Apr 1, 2022)

There are 4 games on the first night instead of the usual 1, England play on the 1st night, apparently, according to some muppet on 5live, the last time that happened was 1966 and it could be an omen 
Honest to God are we going to have to suffer this sh*t until November 🙄


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 1, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			So Scotland might get to win another major tournament by drawing with England in the group stages. Very exciting.
		
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You sound a little bit scared. 
Anyway how have the last few Scotland v England games gone.


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## Foxholer (Apr 1, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			So Scotland might get to win another major tournament by drawing with England in the group stages. Very exciting.
		
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Haven't they go to GET TO the group stages yet though?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You sound a little bit scared.
Anyway how have the last few Scotland v England games gone.

Click to expand...

How far back do you want to go ? Last 5 ? Two draws and 3 wins for England ? 

Last 30 years it’s one win for Scotland 

Think it’s two wins in 40 years for Scotland


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## babylonsinger (Apr 1, 2022)

Whilst it might end up being irrelevant if Scotland or Ukraine beat us, I am underwhelmed with that group. Was hoping for Brazil or Argentina as a glamour game even though the group appears, on paper, to be competitive (England aside as they will comfortably top the group)


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## larmen (Apr 1, 2022)

Are there too many teams/groups? Looking at the draw I don’t think I see the ‘group of death’ where we have to fear a big nation to be eliminated. But I see a lot of east groups for Netherlands, England, … . Spain/Germany seems the only group doubling up big teams but both should comfortably go through (hopefully).


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## Tashyboy (Apr 1, 2022)

do we need a separate World Cup thread or carry it on in the footie thread. 🤔


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## Slime (Apr 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			do we need a separate World Cup thread or carry it on in the footie thread. 🤔
		
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I think we should have a separate thread.


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## AliMc (Apr 1, 2022)

Slime said:



			I think we should have a separate thread.
		
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Good idea we can open it in November !


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## Slime (Apr 1, 2022)

AliMc said:



			Good idea we can open it in November !
		
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Sorry AliMc, it's already open!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 1, 2022)

No group of death. Warm balls..........?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2022)

larmen said:



			Are there too many teams/groups? Looking at the draw I don’t think I see the ‘group of death’ where we have to fear a big nation to be eliminated. But I see a lot of east groups for Netherlands, England, … . Spain/Germany seems the only group doubling up big teams but both should comfortably go through (hopefully).
		
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Certainly looking like the main teams will be getting through the group stages and into KO’s - could be some juicy games in the last 16


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 1, 2022)

larmen said:



			Are there too many teams/groups? Looking at the draw I don’t think I see the ‘group of death’ where we have to fear a big nation to be eliminated. But I see a lot of east groups for Netherlands, England, … . Spain/Germany seems the only group doubling up big teams but both should comfortably go through (hopefully).
		
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Definitely no group of death but for the integrity of the event don't you want the best sides into the knockout stages?


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## larmen (Apr 1, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Definitely no group of death but for the integrity of the event don't you want the best sides into the knockout stages?
		
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Yes and no. We want upsets, but also the best teams ;-)

But I am not keen on someone scoring 6 goals in fairly ‘meaningless’ games to win the golden boot, and there are some star strikers with 3 give away games in front of them.


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## Dando (Apr 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Englands group 

Iran
USA
Wales/Scotland or Ukraine

😂
		
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The loser of USA v England has to keep James Corden


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Englands group

Iran
USA
Wales/Scotland or Ukraine

😂
		
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Another handpicked group for Southgate's mob.


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## Foxholer (Apr 1, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Definitely no group of death but for the integrity of the event don't you want the best sides into the knockout stages?
		
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How do you define 'the best sides' then?
Surely either 'those that make it through the Group stages that are the best sides' or 'those that don't make it through the Group stage are not the best sides'! And that particularly applies where there is no obvious 'group of death'.


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## BiMGuy (Apr 1, 2022)

I presume there are lot of people on here who won’t be watching the World Cup?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I presume there are lot of people on here who won’t be watching the World Cup?
		
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Why would you presume that?


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## phillarrow (Apr 2, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Another handpicked group for Southgate's mob.
		
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Aren't they all "handpicked" ? Isn't that literally what happens in draws like this - people pick the teams out with their hands? 😉😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 2, 2022)

Dando said:



			The loser of USA v England has to keep James Corden
		
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That's all the team talk Gareth needs to give for that game 😆


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## Swango1980 (Apr 2, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's all the team talk Gareth needs to give for that game 😆
		
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Especially for Maguire. If England lose and get to keep Corden, Corden might end up replacing Maguire in the side


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How far back do you want to go ? Last 5 ? Two draws and 3 wins for England ?

Last 30 years it’s one win for Scotland

Think it’s two wins in 40 years for Scotland
		
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Last few was what I said and I was thinking the last 6 games.
Makes better reading if you are Scots  last 5 if you are English.
50% win ratio for England over last 6 games so not a cakewalk.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2022)

If anyone wants some free money.
Salah 1shot on target in the early kick off is even money with Sky Bet.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			If anyone wants some free money.
Salah 1shot on target in the early kick off is even money with Sky Bet.
		
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Judging by his penalty, you'd be throwing money away


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Judging by his penalty, you'd be throwing money away 

Click to expand...

😂😂😂


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## paddyc (Apr 2, 2022)

Can someone  contact the fashion police and send to the football  focus studio ASAP perpetrator  is Martin  Keown!


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2022)

Harry Kane equals Aguero for most player of the month awards 7.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Judging by his penalty, you'd be throwing money away 

Click to expand...

Guess the Lasers had long lasting effect 🤦‍♂️


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2022)

Fernandes, you tart.                         



*JUST GET UP !!*


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## Dando (Apr 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			Fernandes, you tart.                         



*JUST GET UP !!*

Click to expand...

Did a butterfly come within 50 miles of him?


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2022)

Dando said:



			Did a butterfly come within 50 miles of him?
		
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No, but a blade of grass got him.


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## Dando (Apr 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			No, but a blade of grass got him.
		
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We should all clap at 8pm on Thursday
For him


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## Billysboots (Apr 2, 2022)

Dando said:



			We should all clap at 8pm on Thursday
For him
		
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I wouldn’t clap a single one of this shower. Awful watch again.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 2, 2022)

Do either team deserve to win this? It's a tough watch.


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2022)

It was only a matter of time.


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2022)




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## paddyc (Apr 2, 2022)

I've only just put it on but Leicester  look so comfortable   Harvey Barnes such a dangerous  player should be in England squad  ahead of Grealish.


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## Billysboots (Apr 2, 2022)

That should be ruled out, surely.


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## paddyc (Apr 2, 2022)

Soft!


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2022)

One of the easiest VAR calls we'll ever see.


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## Billysboots (Apr 2, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Soft!
		
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How so? It was a clear foul.


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			How so? It was a clear foul.
		
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Don't worry.
Paddy's only just turned it on and he's already picked Barnes for England!


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## Dando (Apr 2, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I wouldn’t clap a single one of this shower. Awful watch again.
		
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Maybe wave an imaginary card then


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 2, 2022)

Leicester trying to give this to United late on


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Leicester trying to give this to United late on
		
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United obviously don't want it!


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## paddyc (Apr 2, 2022)

Another woeful  Man U performance😄


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Another woeful  Man U performance😄
		
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Yup.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			United obviously don't want it!
		
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Assume Sancho missed shooting practice this week


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2022)

No confidence, no direction and no idea who their manager will be next season.
None of that helps.


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## Billysboots (Apr 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			No confidence, no direction and no idea who their manager will be next season.
None of that helps.
		
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I know Gary Neville isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I do wish the club hierarchy would listen to him sometimes. He says what so many fans are saying themselves - throwing money at players is not the solution.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 2, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I know Gary Neville isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I do wish the club hierarchy would listen to him sometimes. He says what so many fans are saying themselves - throwing money at players is not the solution.
		
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Like you say he's marmite but I like him. He'll always call it as he sees it and won't sit on the fence even if that annoys people. I think he speak a lot of sense about the problems with United and indeed what is wrong in football in general


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## Tashyboy (Apr 3, 2022)

Cresswell, what is that all about 😖


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## Dando (Apr 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Cresswell, what is that all about 😖
		
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Had the whistle gone?

Richarlison really is as likeable as a dog turd sandwich


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 3, 2022)

Dando said:



			Had the whistle gone?

Richarlison really is as likeable as a dog turd sandwich
		
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Yes it had. It was a cheap shot. Could have been red on another day but way too late on to make a difference. 

Can't argue against that 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Apr 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yes it had. It was a cheap shot. Could have been red on another day but way too late on to make a difference.

Can't argue against that 🤷‍♂️
		
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could have been a red, probably would have been if Richarlison had held where he had been kicked rather than his face


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## Stuart_C (Apr 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Cresswell, what is that all about 😖
		
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Great freekick and even better celebration 😁😁


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## Neilds (Apr 3, 2022)

Great day out at Wembley for the Papa Johns Trophy final. Rotherham not at their best in normal time, snatching an equaliser in the 96th minute 🫣
Two more goals in extra time when our skill and fitness started to tell 🏆


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## fundy (Apr 3, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Great day out at Wembley for the Papa Johns Trophy final. Rotherham not at their best in normal time, snatching an equaliser in the 96th minute 🫣
Two more goals in extra time when our skill and fitness started to tell 🏆
		
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Some rest done them the power of good, lets hope theyre fully charged for the last 6 weeks of the season  As a neutral hard not to like how clubs like Rotherham have been the last 5 or so years


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 3, 2022)

Lampard saying Everton need to show more quality https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60975548

Sorry but as the manager you have to get the best out of your players. If he thought it was going to be easy to manage them he's surely found out what a big task there is. Relegation still a real possibility


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## pauljames87 (Apr 3, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Lampard saying Everton need to show more quality https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60975548

Sorry but as the manager you have to get the best out of your players. If he thought it was going to be easy to manage them he's surely found out what a big task there is. Relegation still a real possibility
		
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Lampard is a moron tbh , heard him on the radio claiming it was the wrong result and they deserved least a point. What game was he watching? a lucky deflected goal to pull level after almost every time we went forward we caused them issues.

yes a red card .. but after we already had taken the lead again.. from a poor defender. who pulled down antonio when he may have broken free but on the half way line?? someone would catch him .. and then to do that stupid tackle edge of the box when he was going nowhere .. just moronic.

it was such an easy game after the card that we could take bowen off for noble and just see out the game... 



Tashyboy said:



			Cresswell, what is that all about 😖
		
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I dont know why he did that.. uncalled for completely.. but richarlson reaction?? what the heck was that.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Lampard is a moron tbh , heard him on the radio claiming it was the wrong result and they deserved least a point. What game was he watching? a lucky deflected goal to pull level after almost every time we went forward we caused them issues.

yes a red card .. but after we already had taken the lead again.. from a poor defender. who pulled down antonio when he may have broken free but on the half way line?? someone would catch him .. and then to do that stupid tackle edge of the box when he was going nowhere .. just moronic.

it was such an easy game after the card that we could take bowen off for noble and just see out the game...



I dont know why he did that.. uncalled for completely.. but richarlson reaction?? what the heck was that.
		
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It was a yellow at most. Hes allowed to try and kick the ball. Richarlison actually handballed it and moved the ball so Creswell missed the ball and brushed his chest. 

His feigning of face injury is hysterical.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It was a yellow at most. Hes allowed to try and kick the ball. Richarlison actually handballed it and moved the ball so Creswell missed the ball and brushed his chest.

His feigning of face injury is hysterical.
		
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tbh I thought there was intent from cresswell.. used the law to hide behind just a yellow but he could have left that.. the foul was already given no?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It was a yellow at most. Hes allowed to try and kick the ball. Richarlison actually handballed it and moved the ball so Creswell missed the ball and brushed his chest.

His feigning of face injury is hysterical.
		
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So should have been a yellow for the deliberate handball and then a yellow for simulation


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## Stuart_C (Apr 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			tbh I thought there was intent from cresswell.. used the law to hide behind just a yellow but he could have left that.. the foul was already given no?
		
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Ronaldo done the same against us on Curtis jones and got a yellow. 

You cant prove intent, so on that basis a yellow was sufficient


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## Stuart_C (Apr 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So should have been a yellow for the deliberate handball and then a yellow for simulation
		
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I wouldnt argue with that outcome.


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## 4LEX (Apr 3, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I know Gary Neville isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I do wish the club hierarchy would listen to him sometimes. He says what so many fans are saying themselves - throwing money at players is not the solution.
		
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Neville is clueless. He also thought Ole should've had more time and thinks Rashford should've started yesterday when he couldn't trap a bag of cement at the moment. Through Ole's whole tenre Neville was sitting on the fence and papering over the cracks as his mate made a mess of it.

Throwing money at the problem is what every elite club does, the difference is they all have better people running the football side and spend the money well. The idea Utd can get out of this without spending even more money is pie in the sky. The best of the academy is Elanga and he's not good enough to start for any top 8 side. It's embarrassing seeing someone clearly not good enough starting games simply because he runs and puts in a shift.

The moment Woodward picked Pogba and Martial over Mourinho in 2018 he created the toxic arrogance among the players and gave them total power. Terrible contract extensions, overpaying on wages and players aswell as not selling players when they were worth something are other key reasons. Utd haven't got the right people running the club and football side to turn it around.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 3, 2022)

Just want to post my appreciation for craig dawson 

what a signing he has been. I know that watford fans didnt rate him but look who he had around him.. hard to judge a defender in a relegation team when all the other defenders have been poor aswell

he came to us on loan as cover for the centre backs.. he has ended up first choice due to loss of form of Diop (hasnt developed to what we hoped) and injuries to zouma and ogbonna.

he is coming up to 32. moyes has history of this with distin and someone i cant remember off top of my head but he signs defenders at older age and gets them performing until their mid to late 30s at a good level.

well played


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## Swingalot (Apr 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Lampard is a moron tbh , heard him on the radio claiming it was the wrong result and they deserved least a point. What game was he watching? a lucky deflected goal to pull level after almost every time we went forward we caused them issues.
		
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Blokes a complete chopper. Google his post match interview after we done them 4-0 in the f.a. Cup, its comedy gold and has had a load of views as its classic David Brent.

Basically he says all was fine for the first 10 minutes (when Everton were on top) cause the players followed his tactics, but after that they were rubbish as they did not follow his brilliant tactics! He then says our first goal was a fluke, 2nd handball, 3rd offside and last a bit lucky.... 🤣🤣🤣


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## pendodave (Apr 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Just want to post my appreciation for craig dawson 

what a signing he has been. I know that watford fans didnt rate him but look who he had around him.. hard to judge a defender in a relegation team when all the other defenders have been poor aswell

he came to us on loan as cover for the centre backs.. he has ended up first choice due to loss of form of Diop (hasnt developed to what we hoped) and injuries to zouma and ogbonna.

he is coming up to 32. moyes has history of this with distin and someone i cant remember off top of my head but he signs defenders at older age and gets them performing until their mid to late 30s at a good level.

well played
		
Click to expand...

I still have this fever dream where manyoo give up on Maguire and we get him on a discount. I'm sure he would quickly return to form in Moyes's system, and we could do with some fresh blood there .


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## Fade and Die (Apr 4, 2022)

pendodave said:



			I still have this fever dream where manyoo give up on Maguire and we get him on a discount. I'm sure he would quickly return to form in Moyes's system, and we could do with some fresh blood there .
		
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I have similar dreams about Rashford!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

4LEX said:



*Neville is clueless*. He also thought Ole should've had more time and thinks Rashford should've started yesterday when he couldn't trap a bag of cement at the moment. Through Ole's whole tenre Neville was sitting on the fence and papering over the cracks as his mate made a mess of it.

Throwing money at the problem is what every elite club does, the difference is they all have better people running the football side and spend the money well. The idea Utd can get out of this without spending even more money is pie in the sky. The best of the academy is Elanga and he's not good enough to start for any top 8 side. It's embarrassing seeing someone clearly not good enough starting games simply because he runs and puts in a shift.

The moment Woodward picked Pogba and Martial over Mourinho in 2018 he created the toxic arrogance among the players and gave them total power. Terrible contract extensions, overpaying on wages and players aswell as not selling players when they were worth something are other key reasons. Utd haven't got the right people running the club and football side to turn it around.
		
Click to expand...

He's far from clueless, he's one of the best pundits out there.

He was defending OGS to a point but he also called them players out. The same ones who are still underperforming  under a different manager so maybe he was spot on and not clueless afterall eh.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He's far from clueless, he's one of the best pundits out there.

He was defending OGS to a point but he also called them players out. The same ones who are still underperforming  under a different manager so maybe he was spot on and not clueless afterall eh.
		
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Agreed. Just because many pundits like to call for managers to be sacked, doesn't mean they all have to. I never remember Neville saying OGS was a great manager and should be there for many years to come. He has also been clear it is not just down to the manager, it goes higher than that. Moyes failed, Van Gaal failed, Mourinho failed, Ole failed and now Ragnick has not yet shown signs of success.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Agreed. Just because many pundits like to call for managers to be sacked, doesn't mean they all have to. I never remember Neville saying OGS was a great manager and should be there for many years to come. He has also been clear it is not just down to the manager, it goes higher than that. Moyes failed, Van Gaal failed, Mourinho failed, Ole failed and now Ragnick has not yet shown signs of success.
		
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I dont like to hear pundits calling for managers to be sacked, theyre there to provide professional analysis not stoking the fire. 

I liked how Neville tried to protect OGS, he also let it know he was unhappy with how the team was being mangaed etc without going overboard.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont like to hear pundits calling for managers to be sacked, theyre there to provide professional analysis not stoking the fire.

I liked how Neville tried to protect OGS, he also let it know he was unhappy with how the team was being mangaed etc without going overboard.
		
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This. Neville always gives a balanced opinion and will give praise when any club does something good but is also fiercely critical when he sees mistakes at a club. He was vocal about Newcastle in particular before (and since) the new owners came in and how it was run under Ashley. Same with Arsenal and their woes since Wenger. He doesn't go out of the way to call for sackings but will say when he thinks players and managers are under performing and making bad decisions. That in my opinion is what a good pundit should be doing


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## Bdill93 (Apr 4, 2022)

Pathetic from Villa at the weekend. 

Players already on holiday. 8 games till we finish our season, nothing to play for and dont they seem to be showing it. 

Need to play Burnley twice still - probably an easy 6 points for them!!!


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## Piece (Apr 4, 2022)

Another away game - took my youngsters to Anfield on Sat, probably because it's the last time we'll play there for years. .

Made a point of taking the time to visit the Hillsborough Memorial to pay respects and to tell my boys what they needed to know.

Boys loved their day experience - they are getting through quite a few grounds now. I wasn't convinced about the safe standing - didn't do much for my back! Must be an age thing!

We do it all again in a few weeks at The Etihad.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 4, 2022)

Hopefully you didnt have a seat/standing position in the back 6-8 rows - thats a terrible view, but will be miles better when the new anny road is done.

It wasnt an easy run for us by any stretch.


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## Bdill93 (Apr 4, 2022)

Piece said:



			Another away game - took my youngsters to Anfield on Sat, probably because it's the last time we'll play there for years. .

Made a point of taking the time to visit the Hillsborough Memorial to pay respects and to tell my boys what they needed to know.

Boys loved their day experience - they are getting through quite a few grounds now. I wasn't convinced about the safe standing - didn't do much for my back! Must be an age thing!

We do it all again in a few weeks at The Etihad. 

Click to expand...

Great complex at the Etihad to be fair! Be sure to walk around it and take in all the match day things they put on - they really invested in it when I was last there in the 2019/20 season (pre-covid)


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Pathetic from Villa at the weekend.

Players already on holiday. 8 games till we finish our season, nothing to play for and dont they seem to be showing it.

*Need to play Burnley twice still - probably an easy 6 points for them*!!!
		
Click to expand...

I hope so for obvious reasons.


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## Bdill93 (Apr 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope so for obvious reasons.
		
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Stevie will do you a favour! 

Have this strange feeling we might upset City on the last day of the season... Its written in the stars that the Villa boys stop Jack winning the prem and Stevie helps Liverpool win it


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## Piece (Apr 4, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hopefully you didnt have a seat/standing position in the back 6-8 rows - thats a terrible view, but will be miles better when the new anny road is done.

It wasn't an easy run for us by any stretch.
		
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We were near the back, but not enough to spoil the view. The ground has changed a bit since I was last there in 1999 (1-0 win ). 

Ironically I said to my boys just after Kucka missed that chance in the first half that top sides usually go and score straight after - I didn't get to complete the sentence when Jota scored. 

Too many 50-50 scarves for my liking!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Stevie will do you a favour!

Have this strange feeling we might upset City on the last day of the season... Its written in the stars that the Villa boys stop Jack winning the prem and Stevie helps Liverpool win it 

Click to expand...

You've missed my point....

Burnley stay up at the expense of beating Villa twice as Everton goin down would be glorious given the amount of stick Gerrard has taken from that lot over the years.

If we win the league it'll be because we've had to win every game. I dont see City dropping many, if any points.

But i'll gladly take your scenario, then Gerrard could claim he won a PL title😁


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

Piece said:



			Another away game - took my youngsters to Anfield on Sat, probably because it's the last time we'll play there for years. .

Made a point of taking the time to visit the Hillsborough Memorial to pay respects and to tell my boys what they needed to know.

Boys loved their day experience - they are getting through quite a few grounds now. I wasn't convinced about the safe standing - didn't do much for my back! Must be an age thing!

We do it all again in a few weeks at The Etihad. 

Click to expand...

Nice touch that @Piece, educating your sons on the disaster. 

There's no better feeling than goin the game with your son and seeing your team win/lose or draw. I certainly appreciate it more, especially now watching this current side. 

I only caught the arse end of the 80's and have watched through some utter dross the last 30yrs. It certainly makes you appreciate the good times.


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## Bdill93 (Apr 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You've missed my point....

Burnley stay up at the expense of beating Villa twice as Everton goin down would be glorious given the amount of stick Gerrard has taken from that lot over the years.

If we win the league it'll be because we've had to win every game. I dont see City dropping many, if any points.

But i'll gladly take your scenario, then Gerrard could claim he won a PL title😁
		
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Oh I did understand about Everton! Just went off on a tangent of my own  

I cant see you both being perfect for the remaining games, one team will slip up! Fascinating finish for the neutral!


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## hairball_89 (Apr 4, 2022)

Piece said:



			Another away game - took my youngsters to Anfield on Sat, probably because it's the last time we'll play there for years. .

Made a point of taking the time to visit the Hillsborough Memorial to pay respects and to tell my boys what they needed to know.

Boys loved their day experience - they are getting through quite a few grounds now. *I wasn't convinced about the safe standing* - didn't do much for my back! Must be an age thing!

We do it all again in a few weeks at The Etihad. 

Click to expand...

Nicely done. I love going to the football with my dad, somehow there always an air of being 8 again walking through the terraces the first time. 

A quick 'safe standing' note - it isn't safe standing. it's rail seating. The difference being it's not so much for leaning on but to stop the crushes and people falling down 2 rows when jumping around after a goal. I've not experienced it yet, so can't comment too much although been to a WHL where they've got it.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Nicely done. I love going to the football with my dad, somehow there always an air of being 8 again walking through the terraces the first time.

A quick 'safe standing' note - it isn't safe standing. it's rail seating. The difference being it's not so much for leaning on but to stop the crushes and people falling down 2 rows when jumping around after a goal. I've not experienced it yet, so can't comment too much although been to a WHL where they've got it.
		
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Rail seating is a must especially for last minute winners in the cup. 

I've seen many of grown men tumbling down rows.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Oh I did understand about Everton! Just went off on a tangent of my own 

I cant see you both being perfect for the remaining games, one team will slip up! Fascinating finish for the neutral!
		
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Well i hope we do because i cant see them dropping any tbh. Hopefully this time next week we'll be a couple of points clear.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 4, 2022)

Kulsevski looks a quality player for Spurs,not sure if they have option to sign him after his loan spell.


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## Piece (Apr 4, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Nicely done. I love going to the football with my dad, somehow there always an air of being 8 again walking through the terraces the first time.

A quick 'safe standing' note - it isn't safe standing. it's rail seating. The difference being it's not so much for leaning on but to stop the crushes and people falling down 2 rows when jumping around after a goal. I've not experienced it yet, so can't comment too much although been to a WHL where they've got it.
		
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I think you've perfectly described the scenario why it should be call 'safe standing'. . Anyway, point taken


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## Piece (Apr 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Nice touch that @Piece, educating your sons on the disaster.

There's no better feeling than goin the game with your son and seeing your team win/lose or draw. I certainly appreciate it more, especially now watching this current side.

I only caught the arse end of the 80's and have watched through some utter dross the last 30yrs. It certainly makes you appreciate the good times.
		
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My two have a real thirst for football knowledge and have always had the confidence to ask me about the difficult footballing subjects. I'm honest with them, and they totally understood when I answered their Hillsborough questions; it should not be a subject that people avoid. There was no complaining at all about going to pay our respects at the Memorial. I would like to think that all respecting away fans would do the same.

I've also told them to make the most of this era - they are privileged that for most of their young football following life, they've seen Watford punching well above their weight in the Prem. It may not happen again for a long time!


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 4, 2022)

Piece said:



			We were near the back, but not enough to spoil the view. The ground has changed a bit since I was last there in 1999 (1-0 win ).

Ironically I said to my boys just after Kucka missed that chance in the first half that top sides usually go and score straight after - I didn't get to complete the sentence when Jota scored. 

Too many 50-50 scarves for my liking!
		
Click to expand...

Yep a new main stand, the enlarged anny road behind you. 

Most hope we do the other two stands over the next 10 years or so, but I think we will have to put in better infrastructure to go above 61k is the common consensus. It could get to 75k, 80k at the absolute most, but the next two stands wouldnt be as easy to get over the line as the last two.

Yep, 1 of them half and halfs is too many.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 4, 2022)

Piece said:



			My two have a real thirst for football knowledge and have always had the confidence to ask me about the difficult footballing subjects. I'm honest with them, and they totally understood when I answered their Hillsborough questions; it should not be a subject that people avoid. There was no complaining at all about going to pay our respects at the Memorial. I would like to think that all respecting away fans would do the same.

I've also told them to make the most of this era - they are privileged that for most of their young football following life, they've seen Watford punching well above their weight in the Prem. It may not happen again for a long time!
		
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Are you old enough to remember Blisset, Barnes, and that centre half with the big plaster on his forehead? 

I remember going the FA cup game in 1986, wne you were beating us 1-0 with about 5 or 10 minutes left. It was a midweek game but we still had about 8-10k there, great atmosphere.


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## Piece (Apr 4, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are you old enough to remember Blisset, Barnes, and that centre half with the big plaster on his forehead?

I remember going the FA cup game in 1986, wne you were beating us 1-0 with about 5 or 10 minutes left. It was a midweek game but we still had about 8-10k there, great atmosphere.
		
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Yes, I am.  You mean Steve Terry. 

Digger was the most talent player I've seen at Watford, bar none. . Was too good for us and really glad he fulfilled his potential up at Liverpool.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Nice touch that @Piece, educating your sons on the disaster.

There's no better feeling than goin the game with your son and seeing your team win/lose or draw. I certainly appreciate it more, especially now watching this current side.

I only caught the arse end of the 80's and have watched through some utter dross the last 30yrs. It certainly makes you appreciate the good times.
		
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I agree. I think things like Hillsborough, but also Ibrox, Heysel, Valley Parade and even Munich need to be on any football fans radar. Hopefully all of these are consigned to history but the victims and the lessons learned need to be remembered. 

If you saw some dross pity those that for many years schlepped around the old division 3 and 4 watching away games watching the likes of Dale Tempest and Gary Barnett miss sitters and being unable to hit the proverbial barn door on an open terrace in the rain at some Northern outpost


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## fundy (Apr 4, 2022)

We havent even been 2nd best in the first half hr!!!! Look like a side that only have 9 or 10 first team players and when a few are missing the replacements arent good enough and dont fit into Artetas "my way or the highway" system

Palace been excellent and deserve to be a couple in front. The really scary bit is their bench is stronger in all bar one seat than ours too!!!

Some of our delusional fans gonna get a wake up call tonight

That or we turn it round nd win 3-2 lol


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

I need Tierney to get his bloody cards out though


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## fundy (Apr 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I need Tierney to get his bloody cards out though
		
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good luck with that, hes fine when he breaks the seal but takes a while!!!

if Cedric doesnt get booked against Zaha ill be surprised (backed both our full backs to be carded)


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 4, 2022)

Are Everton playing Palace tonight 🤣


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## fundy (Apr 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Are Everton playing Palace tonight 🤣
		
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weve been awful, but not that bad


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			weve been awful, but not that bad 

Click to expand...

The game isn't finished yet 😆


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

Tierney 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Slime (Apr 4, 2022)

Arsenal getting gubbed by Palace.
This just highlights the wasted points by United over the last few weeks.
Absolutely infuriating.


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## Bazzatron (Apr 4, 2022)

Ref was watching on +1 for that penalty. Wtf was he waiting for.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 4, 2022)

And we all thought Spurs were the bottlers.....


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## fundy (Apr 4, 2022)

Geez we were utterly awful, Partey injury the icing on a bad nights cake as our paper thin squad gets even thinner, another position we dont have realistic cover for. Basically going to be picking centre halves and attacking midfielders for the rest of the season as its all weve got. the only thing worse than us was Smudgers commentary!!!!

Palace were excellent, well deserved their emphatic win


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## fundy (Apr 4, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And we all thought Spurs were the bottlers.....
		
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in what way have Arsenal bottled it?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

Palace thoroughly deserved that tonight.

Amazing how quickly Viera has changed them from the turgid shite Hodgson used to serve up to a decent football side with relatively little money.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Ref was watching on +1 for that penalty. Wtf was he waiting for.
		
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How he never gave the one on Saka 10 mins earlier though, it was a blatant barge from behind


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## fundy (Apr 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Palace thoroughly deserved that tonight.

Amazing how quickly Viera has changed them from the turgid shite Hodgson used to serve up to a decent football side with relatively little money.
		
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they bought excellently too (even moreso if you include Gallaghers loan) plus Guehi, Anderson, Eze, Edouard, Olise


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## Bazzatron (Apr 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			How he never gave the one on Saka 10 mins earlier though, it was a blatant barge from behind
		
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Nah I'm still hoping to catch them so I was ok with that one.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2022)

Just checked their spend the last 2 seasons, I was surprised they’d spent £90m and recouped £18m.

A nett spend of £72m and they’ve got rid of a lot of highly paid deadwood too.


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## Rlburnside (Apr 4, 2022)

Very impressed with Palace, that’s what you call playing as a team, their work rate was outstanding.


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## Swingalot (Apr 4, 2022)

Well, that was fun.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 5, 2022)

That was poor by Arsenal but Viera seems to have got Palace playing some good football. Arsenal look desperately short of cover in a number of positions and will that come back to bite their CL efforts


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			That was poor by Arsenal but Viera seems to have got Palace playing some good football. Arsenal look desperately short of cover in a number of positions and *will that come back to bite their CL efforts*

Click to expand...

Oh, I hope so.


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## arnieboy (Apr 5, 2022)

Slime said:



			Oh, I hope so.
		
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Me too! Come on you Spurs!


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## fundy (Apr 5, 2022)

Works for me too tbh, be much better for us to finish 5th or 6th tbh as have said a few times. We have a core of 10 players but little below that and will need a lot of new bodies and they will all need integrating into Artetas way. If Europa not CL then we get to bring through some of the youngsters through rather than needing as many new bodies and get a longer transition period.


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## Orikoru (Apr 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			in what way have Arsenal bottled it?
		
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While Spurs of course have the 'Spursy' reputation, Arsenal are classics for playing brilliantly when they're chasing something, but once they get into a position where it's theirs to lose they fall apart again. The only way you'll finish fourth is by nicking it on the last day so you can't give it away again.


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## Orikoru (Apr 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Palace thoroughly deserved that tonight.

Amazing how quickly Viera has changed them from the turgid shite Hodgson used to serve up to a decent football side with relatively little money.
		
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And yet, only one more win than Everton have.


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## fundy (Apr 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			While Spurs of course have the 'Spursy' reputation, Arsenal are classics for playing brilliantly when they're chasing something, but once they get into a position where it's theirs to lose they fall apart again. The only way you'll finish fourth is by nicking it on the last day so you can't give it away again. 

Click to expand...


really? trophy cabinet seems to disagree, even during our barren years weve still managed to win the FA Cup a few times. Does sound like someone else you are describing though............


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 5, 2022)

Piece said:



			Yes, I am.  You mean Steve Terry. 

Digger was the most talent player I've seen at Watford, bar none. . Was too good for us and really glad he fulfilled his potential up at Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

Yep thats the fella, a very commanding centre half.....when not singing for Big Country in his spare time.

I loved Digger, can't believe that some think that Giggs in his prime was a better winger than Barnesy - unfathomable.

Quick, but strong as well, see Bryan Robson bounce off him once in a 60-40 challenge in Robson's favour, but could assist and score as well. He really did have end product.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511310894382333954
😁😁


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## Foxholer (Apr 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			While Spurs of course have the 'Spursy' reputation, Arsenal are classics for playing brilliantly when they're chasing something, but once they get into a position where it's theirs to lose they fall apart again. The only way you'll finish fourth is by nicking it on the last day so you can't give it away again. 

Click to expand...

Well Arsenal, never even started to play 'averagely' last night - and they were chasing from quite early! Certainly a lot of credit to Viera and team for a fabulous effort, especially in defence. A couple of, supposedly, easier games might hoist them above Spurs, but that performance wouldn't give confidence. United probably have an even easier next couple of matches, but 3 toughies out of the 4 that follow. I still think they'll have enough to sneak past my lot (also with 3 toughies AND 2 Europa League matches), but hope otherwise.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep thats the fella, a very commanding centre half.....when not singing for Big Country in his spare time.

I loved Digger, *can't believe that some think that Giggs in his prime was a better winger than Barnesy - *unfathomable.

Quick, but strong as well, see Bryan Robson bounce off him once in a 60-40 challenge in Robson's favour, but could assist and score as well. He really did have end product.
		
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I can as only match goers actually got to see them back in the day.

Giggs was on the TV  every week and Tarquin from Tunbridge wells never missed a game from his armchair.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			And yet, only one more win than Everton have. 

Click to expand...

They've had 8 more draw's though. The old adage if you cant win, dont lose is working well for Viera 😁😁😉

On a serious note, the difference in standard of football between the two teams is night and day.

Whenever teams are struggling down the bottom, the only way to change it is by keeping clean sheets. Then try winning the games. 

Everton had that with Allardyce and they didnt like him neither.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2022)

Seen lots of “Twitter” rumours that Salah has signed a new 4 year contract 🤞🤞🤞🙏


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## Dando (Apr 5, 2022)

New goals for the Chelsea game in the hope Werner scores


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep thats the fella, a very commanding centre half.....when not singing for Big Country in his spare time.

I loved Digger, can't believe that some think that Giggs in his prime was a better winger than Barnesy - unfathomable.

Quick, but strong as well, see Bryan Robson bounce off him once in a 60-40 challenge in Robson's favour, but could assist and score as well. He really did have end product.
		
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Tbf tho it seems Liverpool fans can’t handle anyone saying a opposition player is better than one of their own 🤷‍♂️
Some of the bed wetters on social media will argue all day long rather than just accept a difference of opinion.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep thats the fella, a very commanding centre half.....when not singing for Big Country in his spare time.

I loved Digger, can't believe that some think that Giggs in his prime was a better winger than Barnesy - unfathomable.

Quick, but strong as well, see Bryan Robson bounce off him once in a 60-40 challenge in Robson's favour, but could assist and score as well. He really did have end product.
		
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This is his favourite goal 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365300919051649026
That 87/88 Team was prob the best I have ever seen , the demolition of Forest was close to being the best 90mins seen


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 5, 2022)

Going to plan in Portugal. Will they be able to rest their top players for the weekend. Think City will have to work and grind anything tonight. Will that have any influence on the match on Sunday?


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## fundy (Apr 5, 2022)

City had almost all the ball and the games been played predominantly in the Madrid half, in between Madrid time wasting over and over again. Not sure how hard City are gonna have to work really


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 5, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Going to plan in Portugal. Will they be able to rest their top players for the weekend. Think City will have to work and grind anything tonight. Will that have any influence on the match on Sunday?
		
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Well you certainly jinxed that Homer.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 5, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Well you certainly jinxed that Homer.
		
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Its a gift.


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## fundy (Apr 5, 2022)

extra homework in drama class for Sterling this week lol


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## fundy (Apr 5, 2022)

Foden the creative difference within minutes of coming on


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Well you certainly jinxed that Homer.
		
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Say it again, Homer .......................................... two times!


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## IanM (Apr 5, 2022)

Teams are a reflection of their manager.  Certainly applies to Athletico


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## fundy (Apr 5, 2022)

How is there only 2 minutes added time in the City game. Joke decisions like this just encourage it even more sigh


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 5, 2022)

Good starts for the English sides. Think City are in for a rough night in Madrid and Athletico will be at it with the kicking, diving and play acting from the start


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 5, 2022)

Pretty poor second half , nicked a 3rd in the end 

That Nunez doesn’t mind going to the floor - does look a very good player - reminds me a bit like Cardoza who used to be at Benfica


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## 4LEX (Apr 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He's far from clueless, he's one of the best pundits out there.

He was defending OGS to a point but he also called them players out. The same ones who are still underperforming  under a different manager so maybe he was spot on and not clueless afterall eh.
		
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He was good at the start but has become a poor second best to Carragher. Keane says more in 10 words than Neville can in 10,000.

He's never been spot on. Any idiot could see the players were a key issue, due to Woodward giving them too much power and contracts they didn't deserve. He was quiet when that was going on though. Anyway, Neville thinks he's bigger than football and will be trying for the Mayor of Manchester in a few years so we won't have to endure him.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 6, 2022)

4LEX said:



			He was good at the start but has become a poor second best to Carragher. Keane says more in 10 words than Neville can in 10,000.

He's never been spot on. Any idiot could see the players were a key issue, due to Woodward giving them too much power and contracts they didn't deserve. He was quiet when that was going on though. Anyway, Neville thinks he's bigger than football and will be trying for the Mayor of Manchester in a few years so we won't have to endure him.
		
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Disagree and I think Neville offers a far more balanced approach to Keane who seems to be looking to niggle or be controversial


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## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pretty poor second half , nicked a 3rd in the end

*That Nunez doesn’t mind going to the floor *- does look a very good player - reminds me a bit like Cardoza who used to be at Benfica
		
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Genuinely believe thats why they never got the pen. 

Didnt think we we poor 2nd half per se, just 1 mistake from Konate let them back into a game they shouldnt have had a sniff in. 

Other than that for the goal and 1 in the 1st half when Nunez was past Konate  but decided to throw himself to the floor, i thought Konate was immense. 

Can't see us losing against them at home, unless the ref falls for their antics. 

All eyes on Citeh game this weekend.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Genuinely believe thats why they never got the pen.

Didnt think we we poor 2nd half per se, just 1 mistake from Konate let them back into a game they shouldnt have had a sniff in.

Other than that for the goal and 1 in the 1st half when Nunez was past Konate  but decided to throw himself to the floor, i thought Konate was immense.

Can't see us losing against them at home, unless the ref falls for their antics.

All eyes on Citeh game this weekend.
		
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City at the moment have been struggling, lost tempo. The player that is dragging them along is KDB. Similar to YAYA a good few years back.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			City at the moment have been struggling, lost tempo. The player that is dragging them along is KDB. Similar to YAYA a good few years back.
		
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Its understandable, they're not machines. 

I just hope the game isnt decided by poor decisions for either side from the 3 manchester officials.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 6, 2022)

El Ghazi and Alli were brought in in January, can't get a game. The current midfielders aren't scoring, aren't really creating and we keep losing. Why not try them?


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## Jimaroid (Apr 6, 2022)

FFS. Can we get relegated early and just put us out of this misery.


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## phillarrow (Apr 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			El Ghazi and Alli were brought in in January, can't get a game. The current midfielders aren't scoring, aren't really creating and we keep losing. Why not try them?
		
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How bad must they be if they're being kept out by Iwobi? 🤷‍♂️
I'd be looking to retrain as a plumber if I couldn't get a place ahead of him!


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 6, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			FFS. Can we get relegated early and just put us out of this misery.
		
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Is it wrong to swear profusely at your own player as he is stuttering towards taking a penalty? 

Thank heavens it went in. This is too stressful.


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is it wrong to swear profusely at your own player as he is stuttering towards taking a penalty?

Thank heavens it went in. This is too stressful.
		
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harsh, great pen in the situation, be grateful he didnt fall over in the run up


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 6, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			How bad must they be if they're being kept out by Iwobi? 🤷‍♂️
I'd be looking to retrain as a plumber if I couldn't get a place ahead of him!
		
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I think he must be helping out with building work at Frank's place since he moved in. Can't see how else he gets picked.


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## nickjdavis (Apr 6, 2022)

Do i continue to watch Burnely-Everton or do I switch over to Chelsea-Madrid?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			harsh, great pen in the situation, be grateful he didnt fall over in the run up 

Click to expand...

They are always great when they go in 😄. He has missed doing that before, it's a pet hate of mine. Run up, whack it.


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## Jensen (Apr 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			El Ghazi and Alli were brought in in January, can't get a game. The current midfielders aren't scoring, aren't really creating and we keep losing. Why not try them?
		
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And to think Alli was once worth a good few million. 🤔


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They are always great when they go in 😄. He has missed doing that before, it's a pet hate of mine. Run up, whack it.
		
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you get another watch in a few seconds lol


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Do i continue to watch Burnely-Everton or do I switch over to Chelsea-Madrid?
		
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Villareal v Munich


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			you get another watch in a few seconds lol
		
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Man is a genius 🤣🤣


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## Jimaroid (Apr 6, 2022)

Hnnngggg.


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Man is a genius 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...


well hes the got the flawed part down pat


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## phillarrow (Apr 6, 2022)

As I've just told my kids, all we need to do now is to keep the ball 20+ yards away from our own defence... for the next nine and a half games!!!!


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## Billysboots (Apr 6, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Neville is clueless. He also thought Ole should've had more time and thinks Rashford should've started yesterday when he couldn't trap a bag of cement at the moment. Through Ole's whole tenre Neville was sitting on the fence and papering over the cracks as his mate made a mess of it.

Throwing money at the problem is what every elite club does, the difference is they all have better people running the football side and spend the money well. The idea Utd can get out of this without spending even more money is pie in the sky. The best of the academy is Elanga and he's not good enough to start for any top 8 side. It's embarrassing seeing someone clearly not good enough starting games simply because he runs and puts in a shift.

The moment Woodward picked Pogba and Martial over Mourinho in 2018 he created the toxic arrogance among the players and gave them total power. Terrible contract extensions, overpaying on wages and players aswell as not selling players when they were worth something are other key reasons. Utd haven't got the right people running the club and football side to turn it around.
		
Click to expand...

Odd that you should refer to Neville as clueless, and then go on to make the same points he has, repeatedly.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 6, 2022)

Why is it that a challenge like that is given as a penalty even though the contact wasn't enough to justify the theatrical fall to the ground but defenders can cuddle and wrestle a forward to the ground from a freekick or corner and it's not given as a penalty?


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## nickjdavis (Apr 6, 2022)

stunning goal for Madrid!!!


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			stunning goal for Madrid!!!
		
Click to expand...


some header that from Benzema

rinse repeat lol


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## nickjdavis (Apr 6, 2022)

Madrid still have some way to go to match Brentford mind!!!!


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2022)

looks like Everton are going to need Mike Dean to get a third


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2022)

Saw someone say that Richarlinson has the ego of Cristiano Ronaldo but the career of Stewart Downing- prob sums him up


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## nickjdavis (Apr 6, 2022)

That's just "Newcastle defending" by Chelsea!!!!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 6, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			That's just "Newcastle defending" by Chelsea!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Not sure it was that good. Sunday league


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## nickjdavis (Apr 6, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure it was that good. Sunday league
		
Click to expand...

Nah....if it was Sunday League defending then Benzema would have been put onto the next pitch by Rudiger.


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2022)

can hear Stu celebrating from down South 🤣🤣🤣


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## Jensen (Apr 6, 2022)

If it counts Real Madrid certainly getting some away goals 😁😁😁😁😁😁


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## Jimaroid (Apr 6, 2022)

FFS. Rondon. 😭


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## Baldy Bouncer (Apr 6, 2022)

Ha Ha Ha


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 6, 2022)

Oh dear Frank.


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 6, 2022)

Jensen said:



			If it counts Real Madrid certainly getting some away goals 😁😁😁😁😁😁
		
Click to expand...

Not now


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## Swango1980 (Apr 6, 2022)

Jensen said:



			If it counts Real Madrid certainly getting some away goals 😁😁😁😁😁😁
		
Click to expand...

Away goals don't count as double anymore, if scores tied


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## fundy (Apr 6, 2022)

on the plus side, Lampard has championship experience.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			on the plus side, Lampard has championship experience.....
		
Click to expand...


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 6, 2022)

Huge result, huge. 

DCL still doesn't look like scoring which is massively worrying. I'm not sure where our open play goals are coming from. 

I'm down in liverpool tomorrow, meeting my liverpool season ticket holder cousin on Friday night. That's going to be a tough night 🙄


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## Jimaroid (Apr 6, 2022)

Five hundred and fifty million pounds.

Relegate us. Sack the board. Just end it. I can’t deal with it any more.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Huge result, huge.

DCL still doesn't look like scoring which is massively worrying. I'm not sure where our open play goals are coming from.

I'm down in liverpool tomorrow, meeting my liverpool season ticket holder cousin on Friday night. That's going to be a tough night 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Get the lead away from home and manage the game. They aren't keeping the ball long enough and panic whenever the ball is near their penalty area. No real creativity or anyone to hold it up in midfield. Lack of goals an issue. How does the run in stack up with the other sides?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			can hear Stu celebrating from down South 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Point of Order: i'm in Liverpool and i have a purple bin. 

Unless you're further up North than me😉

But yes i did let out a "gerrin"😁


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## pauljames87 (Apr 6, 2022)

who would have thought lumpard being a poor management appointment? oh wait just about everyone


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## phillarrow (Apr 6, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Get the lead away from home and manage the game. They aren't keeping the ball long enough and panic whenever the ball is near their penalty area. No real creativity or anyone to hold it up in midfield. Lack of goals an issue. How does the run in stack up with the other sides?
		
Click to expand...

Badly! 😬


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 6, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Get the lead away from home and manage the game. They aren't keeping the ball long enough and panic whenever the ball is near their penalty area. No real creativity or anyone to hold it up in midfield. Lack of goals an issue. How does the run in stack up with the other sides?
		
Click to expand...

I'm avoiding looking to be honest. At the end of the day, it is what it is. We are all down there for a reason so whoever any of us have to play it will be tough. Tension plays such a big role at this stage.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 6, 2022)

I see the ref stopped the game when Chelsea were attacking, because a Real Madrid player went down with a sore foot. Is that a thing now? Diego Simeone would love that.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 6, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Get the lead away from home and manage the game. They aren't keeping the ball long enough and panic whenever the ball is near their penalty area. No real creativity or anyone to hold it up in midfield. Lack of goals an issue. *How does the run in stack up with the other sides?*

Click to expand...

This should answer your question Homer....


Definitely a harder run in than Burnley.....




Where are Everton going to pick up the points they need to stay up? The only one I'd be confident of them getting anything would be Watford and maybe Leicester depending on which Leicester turn up on the day. I can see Burnley getting something, at least a point, from Norwich, Southampton, Wolves, Watford and Villa x2. Also possibly Spurs if their season is over by then and Newcastle on the last day.


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## phillarrow (Apr 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			who would have thought lumpard being a poor management appointment? oh wait just about everyone
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I think if you gave our defence to a management trio of Klopp, Guardiola, and Tuchel, they’d still end up looking like the Keystone Cops!
You can’t legislate for the kind of mistakes these lads are making.

What I'd love to understand is how it is possible to bring in two midfielders to the club who are so bad that they can't get a game ahead of Iwobi or Holgate? Who the hell is sanctioning these buys? Something is very rotten at Everton and it has been for years, Lampard is just the stooge who's going to end up costing us the ultimate price.


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## BiMGuy (Apr 6, 2022)

Could have done with that being a draw. 

But that would have deprived us of the joy of seeing Lampard lose another game 😁


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## davemc1 (Apr 6, 2022)

If Carlsberg done Wednesday nights 😁


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Get the lead away from home and manage the game....
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, right! Simple game really. Shame none of the teams at that level can do either of those effectively - which is why they are where they are!!


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## Swango1980 (Apr 6, 2022)

P



ColchesterFC said:



			This should answer your question Homer....
View attachment 42146

Definitely a harder run in than Burnley.....

View attachment 42147


Where are Everton going to pick up the points they need to stay up? The only one I'd be confident of them getting anything would be Watford and maybe Leicester depending on which Leicester turn up on the day. I can see Burnley getting something, at least a point, from Norwich, Southampton, Wolves, Watford and Villa x2. Also possibly Spurs if their season is over by then and Newcastle on the last day.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty sure Everton will get points against Man Utd


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## Tashyboy (Apr 6, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Yeah, right! Simple game really. Shame none of the teams at that level can do either of those effectively - which is why they are where they are!!
		
Click to expand...

👍*Slava Ukraini! Heroiam slava!*


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## Billysboots (Apr 6, 2022)

I think the key difference between Everton and Burnley during their respective run-ins will be the managers.

Lampard has little or no pedigree. Dyche, on the other hand, has worked miracles repeatedly at Turf Moor, and has a very level head on his shoulders.

There’s generally one side which escapes the relegation scrap, and another which gets sucked into it. Burnley and Everton, respectively, are those two this season for me, and have been for some time.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Pretty sure Everton will get points against Man Utd
		
Click to expand...

"Points" plural? Man Utd are poor but are they really bad enough to lose to Everton?


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## Billysboots (Apr 6, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			"Points" plural? Man Utd are poor but are they really bad enough to lose to Everton?
		
Click to expand...

Yes.


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## 4LEX (Apr 6, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Odd that you should refer to Neville as clueless, and then go on to make the same points he has, repeatedly.
		
Click to expand...

That's not true though. Neville backed Ole for years when it was clear he was out of his depth and doing untold damage. Everything I said about MUFC and Ole has been proven correct over time. Ditto the Rangick appointment. The only thing I've got wrong is I thought Utd would finish Top 4 despite the turmoil. Still a slight chance of that with Spurs and Arsenal being made of jelly though


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## Swango1980 (Apr 7, 2022)

4LEX said:



			That's not true though. Neville backed Ole for years when it was clear he was out of his depth and doing untold damage. Everything I said about MUFC and Ole has been proven correct over time. Ditto the Rangick appointment. The only thing I've got wrong is I thought Utd would finish Top 4 despite the turmoil. Still a slight chance of that with Spurs and Arsenal being made of jelly though 

Click to expand...

There is a difference between backing a manager, and simply not calling for him to be sacked. Do you really think Ole was doing untold damage, or the people above his pay grade? 

I don't think anyone thought Ragnick would be a genius manager at Utd, not even the board, otherwise they'd have employed him full time. But, the manager they wanted wasn't available mid season, and so why employ a full time manager they don't really fancy? The season was pretty much a write off, and was really hope that we could finish top 4. 

Neville has continually slated the owners of the club. He has continually discussed how bad the team have played. He criticised the Super League idea. Do you agree with any of that.


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## Billysboots (Apr 7, 2022)

4LEX said:



			That's not true though. Neville backed Ole for years when it was clear he was out of his depth and doing untold damage. Everything I said about MUFC and Ole has been proven correct over time. Ditto the Rangick appointment. The only thing I've got wrong is I thought Utd would finish Top 4 despite the turmoil. Still a slight chance of that with Spurs and Arsenal being made of jelly though 

Click to expand...

It is absolutely true.

You only disagree with Neville on his apparent public backing of Solskjaer. The post I quoted, in which you referred to Neville as clueless, then went on to make a number of the points that Neville himself has made time and time again. The clear implication of that must be either that Neville isn’t actually clueless, or you are, because the two of you share much common ground.

Sorry, but I can’t interpret that in any other way.

😉


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## Tashyboy (Apr 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			There is a difference between backing a manager, and simply not calling for him to be sacked. Do you really think Ole was doing untold damage, or the people above his pay grade?

I don't think anyone thought Ragnick would be a genius manager at Utd, not even the board, otherwise they'd have employed him full time. *But, the manager they wanted wasn't available mid season,* and so why employ a full time manager they don't really fancy? The season was pretty much a write off, and was really hope that we could finish top 4.

Neville has continually slated the owners of the club. He has continually discussed how bad the team have played. He criticised the Super League idea. Do you agree with any of that.
		
Click to expand...

Glad to see they have learned from past mistakes. Wasn’t Ollie brought in as a mid campaign manager but kept on.


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## Billysboots (Apr 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Glad to see they have learned from past mistakes. Wasn’t Ollie brought in as a mid campaign manager but kept on.
		
Click to expand...

The side went on a ridiculously good run when he was appointed, so much so that the club then went against its intention of reviewing his long term future in the summer, by giving him a contract in the spring. They then had an awful end to that season, on a par with that which eventually saw him sacked.


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## Jensen (Apr 7, 2022)

Since Abramovich’s sanctions, it’s no coincidence that Chelsea’s results and performances have deteriorated. Players clearly more concerned about their future wages.
With rising energy and fuel costs it must be worryingly for them 😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Apr 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Glad to see they have learned from past mistakes. Wasn’t Ollie brought in as a mid campaign manager but kept on.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly as Billy said. He was brought in as a temp manager, and Utd started playing like Barcelona of 10 years ago. The results and performances were so good, the board (and fans) felt Ole was actually possibly a great manager, and the players fantastic once the shackles were taken off them.

However, the board jumped the gun and gave Ole a full time contract before the end of the season. That raised one of my eyebrows at the time, there was no need. Not like Ole would have moved on if Utd were not quick to snap him up. As soon as contract signed, United turned awful overnight.

So, I've no doubt Ragnick would never have been given a full time contract before the end of the season. If United had played brilliant football since he came in, of course his full time future would need to be considered in the summer. In a way, the fact this has not happened makes the decision so much easier. Utd can go for the full time manager they want, without being swayed by good performances under the temp manager.


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## Foxholer (Apr 7, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Since Abramovich’s sanctions, it’s no coincidence that Chelsea’s results and performances have deteriorated. Players clearly more concerned about their future wages.
With rising energy and fuel costs it must be worryingly for them 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

If you think that affects players - and it _is_ understandble/reasonable that they might be 'concerned' as they probably have serious (lifestyle related) outgoings along with their serious pay - just consider Sean Dyke's reported key half time pep talk inspirational statement last night.... using Everton's dismal away record to 'inspire' his players!  Maybe I should reconsider my earlier statement...Top Footballers heads don't seem to be for thinking!


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## Orikoru (Apr 7, 2022)

Sorry bit this really made me laugh, I've censored it for the forum as well.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 7, 2022)

The mighty Fulham only two wins away from the PL Hopefully lessons learned from past promotions and no panic buys "to strengthen" when all it does is dilute the squad. Mitrovic being developed into more of a rounded forward player (as well as his goal scoring) and is becoming even better with international experience. I hope we get a good whack of cash for Carvalho and we invest that wisely. Plenty of teams in the bottom third of the PL we are probably on a par with. Get it done at Derby a week tomorrow


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The mighty Fulham only two wins away from the PL Hopefully lessons learned from past promotions and no panic buys "to strengthen" when all it does is dilute the squad. Mitrovic being developed into more of a rounded forward player (as well as his goal scoring) and is becoming even better with international experience. I hope we get a good whack of cash for Carvalho and we invest that wisely. Plenty of teams in the bottom third of the PL we are probably on a par with. Get it done at Derby a week tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

Not going to be much for Carvalho is it after you agreed to sell at £8m in January?

Is your owner happy to pump more money in and will he even be allowed under FFP rules? Not had much to show for nearly half a billion so far and recent losses likely to limit what can be spent for a while surely?

Where do you think you need strengthening?


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## Orikoru (Apr 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The mighty Fulham only two wins away from the PL Hopefully lessons learned from past promotions and no panic buys "to strengthen" when all it does is dilute the squad. Mitrovic being developed into more of a rounded forward player (as well as his goal scoring) and is becoming even better with international experience. I hope we get a good whack of cash for Carvalho and we invest that wisely. Plenty of teams in the bottom third of the PL we are probably on a par with. Get it done at Derby a week tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

Surely the lesson learned will be buy some bloody decent defenders this time. Looking forward to seeing Mitrovic score 8 goals next season though.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry bit this really made me laugh, I've censored it for the forum as well. 

View attachment 42160

Click to expand...

For those of you who don’t know.
Belle Vale is a shopping centre in Liverpool


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## pendodave (Apr 7, 2022)

[QUOTE="Orikoru, post: 2486858, member: 22581"Looking forward to seeing Mitrovic score 8 goals next season though. [/QUOTE]
Wait....what? He's going on a season loan to Torquay?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The mighty Fulham only two wins away from the PL Hopefully lessons learned from past promotions and no panic buys "to strengthen" when all it does is dilute the squad. Mitrovic being developed into more of a rounded forward player (as well as his goal scoring) and is becoming even better with international experience. *I hope we get a good whack of cash for Carvalho* and we invest that wisely. Plenty of teams in the bottom third of the PL we are probably on a par with. Get it done at Derby a week tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

A Tribunal will decide how much Liverpool will have to pay for Carvalho.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2022)

fundy said:



*Not going to be much for Carvalho is it after you agreed to sell at £8m in January?*

Is your owner happy to pump more money in and will he even be allowed under FFP rules? Not had much to show for nearly half a billion so far and recent losses likely to limit what can be spent for a while surely?

Where do you think you need strengthening?
		
Click to expand...

👍


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512060210520678403


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			👍


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512060210520678403

Click to expand...

NOT a done deal s far as I know. Subject to a tribunal ruling on the fee. Also rumours that as we are going up he may stay on a one year contract extension and get PL experience


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

Massive game for West Ham tonight, as big as theyve had as a club for a pretty long while. Pulling hard for them as have a few mates that are fans but wont be easy against Lyon


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Massive game for West Ham tonight, as big as theyve had as a club for a pretty long while. Pulling hard for them as have a few mates that are fans but wont be easy against Lyon
		
Click to expand...

Had to sell my tickets for tonight as My mate couldn't make it and it's Easter holidays so everyone is away 

Making do with the TV lol


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Had to sell my tickets for tonight as My mate couldn't make it and it's Easter holidays so everyone is away

Making do with the TV lol
		
Click to expand...

Oh man surely you could find someone to use the other one!!!

Hard watch (and especially listen) so far, West Ham need to get on the front foot more


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Oh man surely you could find someone to use the other one!!!

Hard watch (and especially listen) so far, West Ham need to get on the front foot more
		
Click to expand...

I did have a spud mate lined up, but thought I'd sell them to another hammer instead let them enjoy it


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

Never in a million years a red

Yellow 

He going away from goal


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## Dando (Apr 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Never in a million years a red

Yellow 

He going away from goal
		
Click to expand...

The wink said it all


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

Dando said:



			The wink said it all
		
Click to expand...

I don't think I understand the way VAR works

Surely he should be at the monitor checking that as it's a clear mistake


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## Swango1980 (Apr 7, 2022)

I don't think it was a red, but Zouma didn't help. Looked like he was casually jogging back, and therefore he was behind the play. Bit faster, he'd have probably been ahead of them, and much easier for VAR to say it was a clear mistake.

Also, refs stop play for any apparent injury at all, not just head injuries.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't think it was a red, but Zouma didn't help. Looked like he was casually jogging back, and therefore he was behind the play. Bit faster, he'd have probably been ahead of them, and much easier for VAR to say it was a clear mistake.

Also, refs stop play for any apparent injury at all, not just head injuries.
		
Click to expand...

Zouma shouldn't have given up


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

stupid from cresswell to give the ref a decision to make, never a red card mind


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 7, 2022)

Dando said:



			The wink said it all
		
Click to expand...

Definitely. Lyon are playing like Atletico and using all the dirty tricks and the ref buying them all


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

if you havent seen it some hit from Payet for Marseille tonight


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512155700394405893


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			stupid from cresswell to give the ref a decision to make, never a red card mind
		
Click to expand...

To be fair it was a dive aswell lol but he shouldn't have put his hand there


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			if you havent seen it some hit from Payet for Marseille tonight


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512155700394405893

Click to expand...

One of the most gifted players to grace the game just his attuide stopped him going to a big club


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

Get in Bowen  Gonna be a siege now for 40 mins


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Get in Bowen  Gonna be a siege now for 40 mins
		
Click to expand...

He needs to get in the England squad 

I've been nothing but impressed with him


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He needs to get in the Arsenal squad

I've been nothing but impressed with him
		
Click to expand...

corrected that for you


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			corrected that for you 

Click to expand...

Why would he downgrade? 🙄🤣


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

time to have one of the Stewards as a sniper and shoot on sight to any idiot who runs on the pitch


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

What an idiot. What on earth do you go on the pitch? Ever . Ever

But when we are attackin?

Ban the fan for life.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			time to have one of the Stewards as a sniper and shoot on sight to any idiot who runs on the pitch
		
Click to expand...

Only after they’ve dealt with those mutants who bring signs asking “ Bruno can I have your shirt” 😡😡


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Only after they’ve dealt with those mutants who bring signs asking “ Bruno can I have your shirt” 😡😡
		
Click to expand...


Im sure we can keep the sniper busy for the whole game


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## Stuart_C (Apr 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Im sure we can keep the sniper busy for the whole game 

Click to expand...

Make them earn their £8.91 minimum wage 😆


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Make them earn their £8.91 minimum wage 😆
		
Click to expand...


haha, happy to pay well for this role


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

Ref has lost this game 

Yellow for what?


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## fundy (Apr 7, 2022)

West ham be happy enough with that after Cresswells red card

Going to be some return leg


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			West ham be happy enough with that after Cresswells red card

Going to be some return leg
		
Click to expand...

Looking forward to it 

Massive mistake from Lyon

They should be winning against 10


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## Stuart_C (Apr 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Looking forward to it

Massive mistake from Lyon

They should be winning against 10
		
Click to expand...

Its often harder against 10 men.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Its often harder against 10 men.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed but we didn't look solid, they had their chances and wasted them for sure 

Second leg should be a good one


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Its often harder against 10 men.
		
Click to expand...

Do you often type that in your browser, mate?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you often type that in your browser, mate? 

Click to expand...

You know your own tricks best 😉


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## backwoodsman (Apr 7, 2022)

Anyone seen some of the qualifying scores for the women's world  cup? Georgia 0 - Sweden 15;   Poland 12 - Arnenia 0.  I guess some teams are just a bit better than others.


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## pendodave (Apr 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Looking forward to it 

Massive mistake from Lyon

They should be winning against 10
		
Click to expand...

 I'm just on my way back. The ease with which they scored the equalizer suggests that if they had kept pressing hard they might well have got a couple more. 
We've got a chance, but I'm not particularly optimistic. Fingers crossed (I'm too old for the arm crossing thing!)


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## Fade and Die (Apr 8, 2022)

Massive performance against 12 men tonight and Dawson was superb. Those tackles at the end were fantastic.
Ref was shocking, made Mike Dean look competent! 
Also how is he still refereeing? Previously banned from reffing for 6 months for accepting a bribe!!! 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Zwayer


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## GG26 (Apr 8, 2022)

Shocking decision by the ref this evening right in front of me at the King Power. Was a clear penalty to PSV as Ricardo Perriera took the feet away from  their attacker just inside the box.  One of those occasions that I was glad that VAR wasn’t in use.

Overall we dominated the first half and didn’t make the most of our chances.  Second half was dull.  PSV sat back and I believe that only two attempts on goal were recorded in the whole half.

I suspect that the second leg will be close as well.  What a joy to have Fofana back.  The lad just oozes class and he’s just signed up for another four years.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Massive performance against 12 men tonight and Dawson was superb. Those tackles at the end were fantastic.
Ref was shocking, made Mike Dean look competent!
Also how is he still refereeing? Previously banned from reffing for 6 months for accepting a bribe!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Zwayer

Click to expand...

He is such a great defender. Must be one of the bargains of the century


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## DanFST (Apr 8, 2022)

Just recovered from last night, sore head!

Never a red, absolute joke. Going away from goal. Have just seen the wink, I want to start drinking again.


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## Beezerk (Apr 8, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Just recovered from last night, sore head!

Never a red, absolute joke. Going away from goal. Have just seen the wink, I want to start drinking again.
		
Click to expand...

Going away from goal 😂😂😂
Maybe by a fraction but he’s clean through, clear red for me.


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## DanFST (Apr 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Going away from goal 😂😂😂
Maybe by a fraction but he’s clean through, clear red for me.
		
Click to expand...


So every corner will now be a penalty?

A 6ft huge bloke going down after getting touched in the bicep.


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## Beezerk (Apr 8, 2022)

DanFST said:



			So every corner will now be a penalty?

A 6ft huge bloke going down after getting touched in the bicep.
		
Click to expand...

Corner? I don’t understand, his first touch looked decent and the ball was just about going straight forward.
Get those West Ham goggles off 😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Massive performance against 12 men tonight and Dawson was superb. Those tackles at the end were fantastic.
Ref was shocking, made Mike Dean look competent!
Also how is he still refereeing? Previously banned from reffing for 6 months for accepting a bribe!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Zwayer

Click to expand...

Absolutely shocking ref. Worse I've seen in a European game for many seasons and that's starting with a fairly low bar


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## Fade and Die (Apr 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Corner? I don’t understand, his first touch looked decent and the ball was just about going straight forward.
Get those West Ham goggles off 😂
		
Click to expand...


I was right in line with it and i honestly thought the ref was booking the striker for simulation! I read later he is on loan from spurs. It did not improve my mood.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Going away from goal 😂😂😂
Maybe by a fraction but he’s clean through, clear red for me.
		
Click to expand...

His touch takes him wide..if he gets a shot on target from there he is better than Ronaldo.

Never a red

Plus a foul on Bowen in the build up


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2022)

Pep & Klopp seriously need to get a room.
The games gone 🤦‍♂️


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## Steve Wilkes (Apr 9, 2022)

Just seen the Newcastle penalty, and has highlighted another change in how the attitude of the game has change in the last 20 years. Years ago everyone would have said "what a cheat" he left he legs and dived, now it's a stonewall penalty


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2022)

Steve Wilkes said:



			Just seen the Newcastle penalty, and has highlighted another change in how the attitude of the game has change in the last 20 years. Years ago everyone would have said "what a cheat" he left he legs and dived, now it's a stonewall penalty
		
Click to expand...

Yes I would say anyone who delibaretly drags his foot into the keeper is late and should be a free kick to the keeper.


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

Steve Wilkes said:



			Just seen the Newcastle penalty, and has highlighted another change in how the attitude of the game has change in the last 20 years. Years ago everyone would have said "what a cheat" he left he legs and dived, now it's a stonewall penalty
		
Click to expand...


dont see it as a stonewall at all, falls into the horrendous category where the ex pros fawn over someone earning a penalty


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

Some midfield battle royal this today, Fred and Matic against Iwobi, Allan and Delph lol

Shouldnt joke, ours will be even worse later


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			dont see it as a stonewall at all, falls into the horrendous category where the ex pros fawn over someone earning a penalty
		
Click to expand...

It’s the standard of reffing for me.
VAR  should see what he’s done , it’s in the dive category for me.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 9, 2022)

Another assist for Harry Maguire.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

Yernited 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 9, 2022)

Can we play utd every game for the rest of the season? Go on, go on, go on 🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can we play utd every game for the rest of the season? Go on, go on, go on 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Good win in a very scruffy game.
But can see now why the UTD fans are not happy with their team, one of the worst UTD teams I have seen.


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## Steve Wilkes (Apr 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s the standard of reffing for me.
VAR  should see what he’s done , it’s in the dive category for me.
		
Click to expand...

We are in the 'back in the day' category, but todays media, officials, brainwashed armchair fans just can't see it


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## Swango1980 (Apr 9, 2022)

Well, I did call it that Everton would beat United. I have never hated a bunch of United players as much as I do right now, and they've angered me for quite a few years. Absolute bunch of wasters. Salaries should be performance based,  and therefore they should not get paid a single penny. 

I cry when I see Matic on the pitch. Bruno Fernandes is quite simply abysmal. He might as well just continually kick it back to the opposing keeper any time United get possession. He somehow thinks he is going to play the killer ball every time he gets it. And, any time the ball gets to a United player, they take umpteen touches. Clearly they've no intent of moving the ball quickly with nice 2 touch football.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)

Blimey - how bad must Man Utd be if they can’t even beat Everton 😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey - how bad must Man Utd be if they can’t even beat Everton 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Worse than you think. I am gobsmacked they are top half of the table. Unless it was against Leeds, I don't think United have had one half decent game.


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

9-0 watch on again at Southampton 

Horrid looking Arsenal side today again, Xhaka at left back, Soares at right back and Lokonga left in central midfield alone. January decisions coming home to roost sadly


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Good win in a very scruffy game.
But can see now why the UTD fans are not happy with their team, one of the worst UTD teams I have seen.
		
Click to expand...

We are very heavily in the tterritory of 'it doesn't matter how' we get 3 points at the moment. Scruffy, ugly etc don't matter for the remainder of the season, sadly.


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

toe nail watch at Emirates lol


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

pick a frame any frame lol, if it takes that long.....................


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

sigh


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			9-0 watch on again at Southampton 

Horrid looking Arsenal side today again, Xhaka at left back, Soares at right back and Lokonga left in central midfield alone. January decisions coming home to roost sadly
		
Click to expand...

Wish you'd told me that before I'd picked them for Last Man Standing.  2 weeks running Brighton have done me


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Wish you'd told me that before I'd picked them for Last Man Standing.  2 weeks running Brighton have done me 

Click to expand...

 You didnt watch us against Palace last week or read comments then?


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## Billysboots (Apr 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, I did call it that Everton would beat United. I have never hated a bunch of United players as much as I do right now, and they've angered me for quite a few years. Absolute bunch of wasters. Salaries should be performance based,  and therefore they should not get paid a single penny.

I cry when I see Matic on the pitch. Bruno Fernandes is quite simply abysmal. He might as well just continually kick it back to the opposing keeper any time United get possession. He somehow thinks he is going to play the killer ball every time he gets it. And, any time the ball gets to a United player, they take umpteen touches. Clearly they've no intent of moving the ball quickly with nice 2 touch football.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree, so much so that I didn’t even know the score until a mate sent me a text. Golf this morning, then after a quick pint I went straight on to other stuff this afternoon. I lost interest in this season weeks ago.

It’s not the results, or the fact we’re not competing for any silverware. It’s the manner in which United are going about their business and their football. It’s just turgid, depressing dross.

I’m a lifelong fan, have been a club member for years, but I won’t be wasting my time or money going back to Old Trafford until I see some sign that the club are putting a structure in place which supports what goes on out on the pitch, and that starts to filter down into the performances. I haven’t felt such gloom about my club for over 40 years.

I pay my money to be entertained, even if that ends in defeat. Watching United now just leaves me feeling cheated and angry.


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## adam6177 (Apr 9, 2022)

Just seen the Everton result 😁

I may have to text my mate that said (after United signed Ronaldo) that they'd challenge city for the title and my boys would be "scrapping" for 4th.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 9, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Just seen the Everton result 😁

I may have to text my mate that said (after United signed Ronaldo) that they'd challenge city for the title and my boys would be "scrapping" for 4th.
		
Click to expand...

You could have texted him a few months ago


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## Jimaroid (Apr 9, 2022)

No phone signal most of the day, nice result. Wish we could do it away.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)




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## BrianM (Apr 9, 2022)

Villa playing well, probably unlucky to not be level at half time.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 9, 2022)

fundy said:



 You didnt watch us against Palace last week or read comments then?
		
Click to expand...

Did I need to? It was Brighton for Christ’s sake, the team that couldn’t beat Norwich last week. 🙄


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## Jensen (Apr 9, 2022)

First time I’ve seen Bruno Guimaraes for The Toon. Very impressive performance and deserved man of the match. Strong with the ball driving forward, can use both feet and not bad defensively. 
Saint Max is exciting, but needs to release the ball earlier.
Eddie Howe doing a great job at The Toon, looks like another Premiership season next year 👍


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Totally agree, so much so that I didn’t even know the score until a mate sent me a text. Golf this morning, then after a quick pint I went straight on to other stuff this afternoon. I lost interest in this season weeks ago.

It’s not the results, or the fact we’re not competing for any silverware. It’s the manner in which United are going about their business and their football. It’s just turgid, depressing dross.

*I’m a lifelong fan, have been a club member for years, but I won’t be wasting my time or money going back to Old Trafford until I see some sign that the club are putting a structure in place which supports what goes on out on the pitch, and that starts to filter down into the performances. I haven’t felt such gloom about my club for over 40 years.*

*I pay my money to be entertained, even if that ends in defeat. Watching United now just leaves me feeling cheated and angry*.
		
Click to expand...

Spoken like a true glory hunter. I admire your honesty.


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Did I need to? It was Brighton for Christ’s sake, the team that couldn’t beat Norwich last week. 🙄
		
Click to expand...


Yup. Were flat out of full backs and central midfielders (only had 1 to start with), only have one striker who hasnt scored in open play in 18 games. a handful of attacking midfielders and a keeper and a few centre halves, not very balanced our paper thin squad which has been shredded the last few weeks

Was it not only Brentford last week?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

Where's @Slime  and @pokerjoke?? 

When i go to mass later i'll light a candle and say a few prayers😉


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Where's @Slime  and @pokerjoke??

When i go to mass later i'll light a candle and say a few prayers😉
		
Click to expand...


Think of the squirrel Stu, think of the squirrel!!!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

Oh dear Mings🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Jensen (Apr 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Think of the squirrel Stu, think of the squirrel!!!
		
Click to expand...

Must be sick of Marathons, sorry Snickers 😁


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Think of the squirrel Stu, think of the squirrel!!!
		
Click to expand...

The squirrel's happy, he's never had so much rest😉


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

Across todays 5 prem games the away sides are now 15-2 up - struggle to think theres even been a set of games like that!!! Especially when the away side didnt score in the first game too


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## AliMc (Apr 9, 2022)

AliMc said:



			I see they are now called Steven Gerrard's Aston Villa as it was Steven Gerrard's Rangers, don't really get the media love in, £50m spent with Rangers to win one trophy out of 9 in a two horse race, very average manager imho
		
Click to expand...

Steven Gerrard's Aston Villa not doing too well


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## Tashyboy (Apr 9, 2022)

Met a lovely guy in me hols today. He a Liverpool fan. 😳 we were discussing. Will Utd qualify for any European football next year. It was a happy conversation. 👍


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

Ashley Young as classy as ever I see


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Where's @Slime  and @pokerjoke??

When i go to mass later i'll light a candle and say a few prayers😉
		
Click to expand...

I'm here Stu, what would you like to know?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2022)

That’s a red imo.


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Think of the squirrel Stu, think of the squirrel!!!
		
Click to expand...

They're on holiday this week ................................ and possibly for the rest of the season!
However, I think one or two of them would like to return for the Norwich game and then resume they're hollibobs.
I'll let you know!


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## Billysboots (Apr 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Spoken like a true glory hunter. I admire your honesty.
		
Click to expand...

Codswallop. 

If you can read the written word, you will have noticed I said this has nothing to do with results and failing to be competitive, and everything to do with the way United do their business, on and off the pitch.

I watch football to be entertained, and to see the game played by players who actually appear to be enjoying what they do. Which is why I much preferred the days of Gordon Hill, Steve Coppell, Jimmy Greenhoff, Stuart Pearson and their ilk, when all we had to celebrate was the occasional cup run, over the bilge served up during the last few years.

Glory hunter? A cheap shot, and so far from the truth it’s unbelievable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)

AliMc said:



			Steven Gerrard's Aston Villa not doing too well
		
Click to expand...

Villa are were you expect Villa to be - mid table , it’s always going to be a learning curve for him


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 9, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			No phone signal most of the day, nice result. Wish we could do it away.
		
Click to expand...

It's something I can't get my head around, across football not just us. If we can't start doing it away then we go down. Even just picking up draws away might be enough but we can't seem to manage that so far. The good news is that we have another 10 days before our next game so that is more time to work on what is needed. 10 happy days for a change 😁


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Codswallop.

If you can read the written word, you will have noticed I said this has nothing to do with results and failing to be competitive, and everything to do with the way United do their business, on and off the pitch.

I watch football to be entertained, and to see the game played by players who actually appear to be enjoying what they do. Which is why I much preferred the days of Gordon Hill, Steve Coppell, Jimmy Greenhoff, Stuart Pearson and their ilk, when all we had to celebrate was the occasional cup run, over the bilge served up during the last few years.

Glory hunter? A cheap shot, and so far from the truth it’s unbelievable.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I read it twice to make sure i hadn't misread it.

When you were watching Gordon Hill, Steve Coppell, Jimmy Greenhoff, Stuart Pearson and their ilk, i'll  bet my last shilling not once you thought about how the club was doing their business etc.

Being entertained??  Football isnt entertainment. They're not there to entertain fans. They're there to play football and  win games anyway they can. If it's great football then great thats a bonus. 

You were there for the glory years and enjoyed them, now your losing/struggling  "you're not going  back until they  do the business on the pitch". How about riding the low years and standing by your team? 

No cheap shot at all. Just my opinion.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 9, 2022)

Everton showing just how fortunes can change and a decent comeback after the Burnley result but it merely shows how woeful United now are, The new manager has a massive job and getting the players to actually give 100% every game and ship out the massive egos is not going to be easy. Villa another side that can produce great football but can also look bang average like tonight.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm here Stu, what would you like to know?
		
Click to expand...

Just checking in Slimey dear boy 😉😁😁


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## Billysboots (Apr 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes, I read it twice to make sure i hadn't misread it.

When you were watching Gordon Hill, Steve Coppell, Jimmy Greenhoff, Stuart Pearson and their ilk, i'll  bet my last shilling not once you thought about how the club was doing their business etc.

Being entertained??  Football isnt entertainment. They're not there to entertain fans. They're there to play football and  win games anyway they can. If it's great football then great thats a bonus.

You were there for the glory years and enjoyed them, now your losing/struggling  "you're not going  back until they  do the business on the pitch". How about riding the low years and standing by your team?

No cheap shot at all. Just my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

So, as a United fan for over fifty years, I’ve supported a team which had a period of success for twenty of them. I’ll let you do the maths, but all in that hardly places me in the glory hunter bracket, does it?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 9, 2022)

AliMc said:



			Steven Gerrard's Aston Villa not doing too well
		
Click to expand...

Seems to be getting a free pass for some reason.
Have they gone backwards since he took over?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Codswallop.

If you can read the written word, you will have noticed I said this has nothing to do with results and failing to be competitive, and everything to do with the way United do their business, on and off the pitch.

I watch football to be entertained, and to see the game played by players who actually appear to be enjoying what they do. Which is why I much preferred the days of Gordon Hill, Steve Coppell, Jimmy Greenhoff, Stuart Pearson and their ilk, when all we had to celebrate was the occasional cup run, over the bilge served up during the last few years.

Glory hunter? A cheap shot, and so far from the truth it’s unbelievable.
		
Click to expand...

So if someone said to you - Would you take Simeone if you were guaranteed to win the title ? What would your answer be ? 

If Man Utd were winning would you really care how ?

It’s a results business and has been for a long time now


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			So, as a United fan for over fifty years, I’ve supported a team which had a period of success for twenty of them. I’ll let you do the maths, but all in that hardly places me in the glory hunter bracket, does it?
		
Click to expand...

In my opinion yes. 

You lost interest in the season weeks ago, when your team starts under performing its easier to justify missing games etc. 

I dont care what you've done previously, when your team is struggling there's always those who'll bail. 

I've seen it myself at my own club under Evans,Houllier,Hodgson and Rodgers.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seems to be getting a free pass for some reason.
Have they gone backwards since he took over?
		
Click to expand...

Could it be they are doing it properly and not just sacking managers lightly.
Most need two seasons at least.
Or is it just because he’s a scouser?


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## Foxholer (Apr 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seems to be getting a free pass for some reason.
Have they gone backwards since he took over?
		
Click to expand...

How do you rate one 'free-fall' against another?!


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Just checking in Slimey dear boy 😉😁😁
		
Click to expand...


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## Billysboots (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if someone said to you - Would you take Simeone if you were guaranteed to win the title ? What would your answer be ?

*If Man Utd were winning would you really care how ?*

It’s a results business and has been for a long time now
		
Click to expand...

In all honesty? Yes. 

When United won the FA Cup in 2016 I was driving home from Wembley with my lad, having watched a genuinely awful performance I would add, when news broke that LVG was out and was going to be replaced by Mourinho. My heart sank.

The expectation at that time was that Mourinho would bring success, but it was abundantly clear how that would be achieved. By playing dour football - sitting on 1-0 leads and boring the pants off the viewing public in the process.

I’m not lying when I say I that is not why I go to games. Sure, winning titles is great. But my motivation in watching United has always been the brand of football I was brought up seeing in the days when they won nothing, year after year. Winning whilst playing that brand of football is just the icing on the cake.

Football is a results business for the clubs. But I would still rather watch United throw the kitchen sink at a top side and lose 1-0, than bore me to death in beating the likes of Norwich by the same scoreline.


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if someone said to you - *Would you take Simeone if you were guaranteed to win the title ?* What would your answer be ?

If Man Utd were winning would you really care how ?

It’s a results business and has been for a long time now
		
Click to expand...

If you were to ask me, I would honestly say "Thanks, but no thanks".
He's the master of anti-football.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if someone said to you - Would you take Simeone if you were guaranteed to win the title ? What would your answer be ?

If Man Utd were winning would you really care how ?

It’s a results business and has been for a long time now
		
Click to expand...

That’s a very good question.
I think not
How about you .?
what do others think.?


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if someone said to you - Would you take Simeone if you were guaranteed to win the title ? What would your answer be ?

If Man Utd were winning would you really care how ?

It’s a results business and has been for a long time now
		
Click to expand...


Genuinely no, wouldnt want him anywhere near Arsenal. Sadly more and more are going in that direction and its not always black and white, our current manager has plenty of traits that I dont agree with too


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			If you were to ask me, I would honestly say "Thanks, but no thanks".
He's the master of anti-football.
		
Click to expand...

So you would turn down winning the title because of the way a manager sets his tam up ?! 


clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a very good question.
I think not
How about you .?
what do others think.?
		
Click to expand...

Of course would take him 

Would take winning the league regardless of how it’s done -sport is a competition, it’s about winning titles and trophies at the top level.

Man Utd fans celebrate winning 20 titles - they don’t celebrate entertainment


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*So you would turn down winning the title because of the way a manager sets his team up ?!*

Of course would take him

Would take winning the league regardless of how it’s done -sport is a competition, it’s about winning titles and trophies at the top level.

Man Utd fans celebrate winning 20 titles - they don’t celebrate entertainment
		
Click to expand...

In an instant.
I'd sooner lose with honour, rather than win with shame.
I feel sorrow for those that feel otherwise.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you would turn down winning the title because of the way a manager sets his tam up ?!

Of course would take him

Would take winning the league regardless of how it’s done -sport is a competition, it’s about winning titles and trophies at the top level.

Man Utd fans celebrate winning 20 titles - they don’t celebrate entertainment
		
Click to expand...

Ok, some might agree 
But some would be horrified to see him in charge .
But if winning is everything then it’s just business first.
Not for me though.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a very good question.
I think not
How about you .?
what do others think.?
		
Click to expand...

He is the same as Mourinho and I'm another in the No to both camp. Both produce awful teams to watch, they suck joy from the game.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 9, 2022)

I see the argument with Simeone and yes it would be great for the club to be winning things but I wouldn't watch them. He is the antithesis of what I want from a manager and the way I would want football played. Would hate to see a team play in the mould of Athletico


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			In an instant.
I'd sooner lose with honour, rather than win with shame.
I have sorrow for those that feel otherwise.
		
Click to expand...

Lose with honour 😂 

No such thing in football -honour left a long time ago when tactical fouls and time wasting etc - do you not remember the antics of the Utd manager on the sidelines or the players surrounding the ref during your successful period.


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lose with honour 😂

No such thing in football -honour left a long time ago when tactical fouls and time wasting etc - do you not remember the antics of the Utd manager on the sidelines or the players surrounding the ref during your successful period.
		
Click to expand...

I thought you were talking about Simeone in 2022, why mention things from over a decde ago?


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## Billysboots (Apr 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			In my opinion yes.

You lost interest in the season weeks ago, when your team starts under performing its easier to justify missing games etc.

I dont care what you've done previously, when your team is struggling there's always those who'll bail.

I've seen it myself at my own club under Evans,Houllier,Hodgson and Rodgers.
		
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I’ve “bailed”, as you put it, because life is too short to spend 90 minutes every other week being bored to tears.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but kindly don’t tell me why I choose to watch football or give it a miss. I know why I make the choices I do. You, with respect, know jack.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			I thought you were talking about Simeone in 2022, why mention things from over a decde ago?
		
Click to expand...

Because you are talking about honour and shame etc - Simeone wasn’t the first manager to act like he does on the sideline and the Man Utd players of the 90/00’s certainly didn’t act with “honour” -  but I bet you didn’t care as they won title after title


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2022)

just me or anyone else hoping that Simeone is the Klopp successor at Anfield


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## Billysboots (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you would turn down winning the title because of the way a manager sets his tam up ?!

Of course would take him

Would take winning the league regardless of how it’s done -sport is a competition, it’s about winning titles and trophies at the top level.

*Man Utd fans celebrate winning 20 titles - they don’t celebrate entertainment*

Click to expand...

United have been lucky enough to have had both. 😉


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			just me or anyone else hoping that Simeone is the Klopp successor at Anfield 

Click to expand...

Yes please. I love Simeone. Though I would say he needs to evolve
his outlook on football.


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because you are talking about honour and shame etc - Simeone wasn’t the first manager to act like he does on the sideline and the Man Utd players of the 90/00’s certainly didn’t act with “honour” -  but I bet you didn’t care as they won title after title
		
Click to expand...

That's decades ago, I didn't care then, but we're not talking about then.
Over many, many years peoples' values change, as mine have and, I'm sure, yours have.
Fast forward to the question you actually asked, 'would you take Simeone if it guaranteed a title', and my answer remains the same .......... no.
For the reasons I explained before you wound the clock back by 20 or 30 years.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve “bailed”, as you put it, because life is too short to spend 90 minutes every other week being bored to tears.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but kindly don’t tell me why I choose to watch football or give it a miss. I know why I make the choices I do. You, with respect, know jack.
		
Click to expand...


You don’t have to justify to me why you're not bothered no more. I couldn’t give two flying frigs to be honest. 

After all, it was you who took Umbrage to my glory hunters comment and asked me to qualify it.

I did so and now you’re telling not to🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Enjoy the foreseeable from the comfort of your armchair 😉


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## 4LEX (Apr 9, 2022)

Man Utd were dire today, against a really poor Everton side. No idea what they were thinking hiring Rangick. Totally under qualified for the job and it now looks they're ignoring his suggestions and moving him on from a future consultant role which are the only things he's good at.

An even worse decision is brewing in ETH too. A manager who likes to play 433, play out from the back and work with hardworking players with no egos. You couldn't imagine a worse fit with the squad and the style of the league. Staggering decision to take a gamble on someone unproven. The last decent Ajax manager was sacked by Palace after a few months.

Feel a bit sorry for Arsenal, I said a month ago they had a very tough run in. While Arteta has done a good job overall this season was about transition and he needs a good summer window to really move Arsenal on. They've been spanked by the top sides and been fortunate in a lot of games this season.

You've got to hand it to Conte, he came in to mess and has reorganised Spurs. A few bumps in the road but his two signings in January were excellent. The front three are as good as anything City have. Kane leading the line with power and intelligence, two great wingers running off him. Hopefully they get fourth. If they do and back him with some key signings they'll be up there for Top 4 and cups next year.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			That's decades ago, *I didn't care then, *but we're not talking about then.
Over many, many years peoples' values change, as mine have and, I'm sure, yours have.
Fast forward to the question you actually asked, 'would you take Simeone if it guaranteed a title', and my answer remains the same .......... no.
For the reasons I explained before you wound the clock back by 20 or 30 years.
		
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Because ultimately you were winning trophies 

If Simeone came in and you won the league there is imo no doubt you would be celebrating - and that’s the same with any team that wins


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			In an instant.
*I'd sooner lose with honour*, rather than win with shame.
I feel sorrow for those that feel otherwise.
		
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Was there any honour today? Or when Liverpool put 5 past them? 😁😁


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Was there any honour today? Or when Liverpool put 5 past them? 😁😁
		
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Nope.


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because ultimately you were winning trophies

If Simeone came in and you won the league there is imo no doubt you would be celebrating - and that’s the same with any team that wins
		
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So what you are saying is that my original answer was, in fact, a blatant lie.
Thanks for that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			So what you are saying is that my original answer was, in fact, a blatant lie.
Thanks for that. 

Click to expand...

So Man Utd employ Simeone , they go on and win the title pipping Liverpool by one point using all his tricks and fouls and spoiling tactics along with timewasting and you wouldn’t celebrate- seriously ?


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## 4LEX (Apr 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			In an instant.
I'd sooner lose with honour, rather than win with shame.
I feel sorrow for those that feel otherwise.
		
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You do realise Man Utd won the 2008 CL playing negative football? Ferguson parked the bus away at Lyon, Inter and Barca. The final was hardly a displaying of attacking class either. Ferguson liked to play attacking football but he would do whatever it took to win. Infact in almost every big away game from 2004 onwards he'd pack the midfield and rely on counter attacking football. The idea Man Utd played all out attacking football is simply not true. Think back to 2012 when he parked the bus away at City and played for 0-0, only to get done by a Kompany header. Cost Utd the title....on goal difference.


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Man Utd employ Simeone , they go on and win the title pipping Liverpool by one point using all his tricks and fouls and spoiling tactics along with timewasting and you wouldn’t celebrate- seriously ?
		
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Nope.
I will, however, always celebrate Liverpool not winning the title.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			You do realise Man Utd won the 2008 CL playing negative football? Ferguson parked the bus away at Lyon, Inter and Barca. The final was hardly a displaying of attacking class either. Ferguson liked to play attacking football but he would do whatever it took to win. Infact in almost every big away game from 2004 onwards he'd pack the midfield and rely on counter attacking football. The idea Man Utd played all out attacking football is simply not true. Think back to 2012 when he parked the bus away at City and played for 0-0, only to get done by a Kompany header. Cost Utd the title....on goal difference.
		
Click to expand...

Rooney out on the left was his european tactic  after he’d watched Benitez and Mourinho do the same.

infairness it worked. He realised he couldn't play the attacking PL style football and adjusted.

He deserves credit for that.

He should've won more European Cups with the squad he had though.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Could it be they are doing it properly and not just sacking managers lightly.
Most need two seasons at least.
*Or is it just because he’s a scouser?*

Click to expand...

😂😂😂 seriously 🎻 🎻🎻🎻


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you would turn down winning the title because of the way a manager sets his tam up ?!

Of course would take him
*
Would take winning the league regardless of how it’s done* -sport is a competition, it’s about winning titles and trophies at the top level.

Man Utd fans celebrate winning 20 titles - they don’t celebrate entertainment
		
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Oil money? 🤔🤷‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

☝️


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512891539684528140
😂😂


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## Jensen (Apr 9, 2022)

Tottenham score 9 goals in their last 2 games and Harry Kane doesn’t get 1.
I wonder what odds the bookies would have given


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			In my opinion yes.

You lost interest in the season weeks ago, when your team starts under performing its easier to justify missing games etc.

I dont care what you've done previously, *when your team is struggling *there's always those who'll bail.

I've seen it myself at my own club under Evans,Houllier,Hodgson and Rodgers.
		
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There's some of us that have never had the privilege of experiencing the alternative.


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## 4LEX (Apr 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Rooney out on the left was his european tactic  after he’d watched Benitez and Mourinho do the same.

infairness it worked. He realised he couldn't play the attacking PL style football and adjusted.

He deserves credit for that.

He should've won more European Cups with the squad he had though.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. He was wise enough to realise you can't play 442 and attack in Europe and win. I'd argue that happened around 2001 and before Benitez though. It's just he didn't have the balance from 2002 to 2006 to make it count as Utd were a mish mash in that era. Utd deffo should've won more, 97, 98, 2002 and 2007 especially.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			just me or anyone else hoping that Simeone is the Klopp successor at Anfield 

Click to expand...

Just you.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512865915989331974
See Ronaldo took the defeat well🤔🤔


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			😂😂😂 seriously 🎻 🎻🎻🎻
		
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You do have a habit of posting about Liverpool .
Or is that just my imagination?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			You do have a habit of posting about Liverpool .
Or is that just my imagination?
		
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I was posting about the Villa manager & how he’s not doing a very good job 👍🏻


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			You do have a habit of posting about Liverpool .
Or is that just my imagination?
		
Click to expand...

It’s not your imagination- he has always been like that 👍


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not your imagination- he has always been like that 👍
		
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Have you ever been to Liverpool Phil?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I was posting about the Villa manager & how he’s not doing a very good job 👍🏻
		
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Who is a scouser that’s why I asked.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Who is a scouser that’s why I asked.
		
Click to expand...

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


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## Tashyboy (Apr 10, 2022)

4LEX said:



			You do realise Man Utd won the 2008 CL playing negative football? Ferguson parked the bus away at Lyon, Inter and Barca. The final was hardly a displaying of attacking class either. Ferguson liked to play attacking football but he would do whatever it took to win. Infact in almost every big away game from 2004 onwards he'd pack the midfield and rely on counter attacking football. The idea Man Utd played all out attacking football is simply not true. *Think back to 2012 when he parked the bus away at City and played for 0-0, only to get done by a Kompany header. Cost Utd the title....on goal difference.*

Click to expand...

Thanks for the memories Stu. Helped to cement Komoanys status as a legend at City. 👍


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## Dando (Apr 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512865915989331974
See Ronaldo took the defeat well🤔🤔
		
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Apparently Ronaldo has invited the kid to watch another game at old trafford- hasn’t the kid suffered enough


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## Jensen (Apr 10, 2022)

Dando said:



			Apparently Ronaldo has invited the kid to watch another game at old trafford- hasn’t the kid suffered enough
		
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I thought it was an Everton fan, can’t see him rushing to Old Trafford


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## Dando (Apr 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I thought it was an Everton fan, can’t see him rushing to Old Trafford
		
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Picking who to watch from Everton or Man U is like decided which leg you want hacked off with a rusty spoon


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## Slime (Apr 10, 2022)

Dando said:



			Picking who to watch from Everton or Man U is like decided which leg you want hacked off with a rusty spoon
		
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If I had to decide which leg I wanted to be hacked off with a rusty spoon, I'd probably choose your right leg.


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## Captainron (Apr 10, 2022)

Hectic start this.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 10, 2022)

Dando said:



			Picking who to watch from Everton or Man U is like decided which leg you want hacked off with a rusty spoon
		
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Would sir prefer to get cancer of the right testicle or the left testicle?


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## Jensen (Apr 10, 2022)

Can’t help thinking that quick start to the second half by Liverpool, was helped by the way they came out of the tunnel.
Coaches had them to doing sprints from sideline back and forth. Certainly sets the mental tone and gets them fired up. City in comparison merely wandered out on to the pitch.


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## Captainron (Apr 10, 2022)

Thiago certainly doesn’t mind going through lads to try and win the ball. Like it.


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## BiMGuy (Apr 10, 2022)

Thiago should be off the pitch now.


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## Dando (Apr 10, 2022)

That’s a shame


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## BiMGuy (Apr 10, 2022)

That should be another Liverpool player gone.


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## Captainron (Apr 10, 2022)

Liking the robust challenges in this game. Proper top of the table win at all costs scrap


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## Dando (Apr 10, 2022)

Pep moaning about a tactical foul 🤣🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2022)

Well City should have been way out of sight by half time but snuck a point in the second half. Heck of a game and could have been a few cards but thought the ref did well 

Still in Citys hands and need them to drop a few points 

These two teams clear of the rest by a mile


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## Jensen (Apr 10, 2022)

Still not convinced City’s third goal shouldn’t have been ruled out


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## AmandaJR (Apr 10, 2022)

Brutal AND tactical imho. But hey it's only City who do that all the time


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## BrianM (Apr 10, 2022)

Quality of football absolutely superb.
I personally think City are the slightly better side but clutching at straws a bit to split them.


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## BiMGuy (Apr 10, 2022)

Liverpool were lucky there. 

They looked very much like a Jose team.


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## hairball_89 (Apr 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Still not convinced City’s third goal shouldn’t have been ruled out
		
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I'm sit here seething about our first half performance and wondering what might have been if we'd been able to control the ball rather than just run around like headless chicken chasing city shadows... But I'd agree with this. Sterling as "level" in old money. Which is onside.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2022)

Shocking first half.
Really good second ,the way to handle City is to attack them.
Not a fan of the high line and City showed me why.
Fabhino should have been off imho.
But the Thiago one the City player is holding him so he’s off balance.
Very good game and fair result for me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2022)

looking at each clubs remaining fixtures I think it’s hard to see where City will drop points

KDB is such a rolls Royce of a player - would love him in our team , how the heck did Chelsea let him go


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## Foxholer (Apr 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 42194

View attachment 42195


looking at each clubs remaining fixtures I think it’s hard to see where City will drop points
...
		
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15th May? 
Certainly 'on paper', the easier run in.


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## Cherry13 (Apr 10, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			15th May? 
Certainly 'on paper', the easier run in.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t see it. I think city’s is just as tough. They both will win all games at home and would certainly expect too. Of the away games I’d rather liverpools than city’s. 
West Ham in particular will be a tricky one.


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## BrianM (Apr 10, 2022)

No easy games, especially at the business end of the season.
You’ve still got to go out there and produce the goods.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			I don’t see it. I think city’s is just as tough. They both will win all games at home and would certainly expect too. Of the away games I’d rather liverpools than city’s.
*West Ham in particular will be a tricky one.*

Click to expand...

Only if they're out of Europa League. If theyre still in it i expect West Ham to play a weakened side that game and rightly so.


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## Foxholer (Apr 10, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			I don’t see it. I think city’s is just as tough. They both will win all games at home and would certainly expect too. Of the away games I’d rather liverpools than city’s.
West Ham in particular will be a tricky one.
		
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Notice the (wishful thinking) smilie! I didn't really analyse any 'away-ness factor'; just, from self interest, that particular game!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

A mad game of 2 halves. Disappointed how we conceded the scruffy 1st goal. 

We're no worse off, it's upto both sides to win all the remaining games.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2022)

Fair result and a decent game, especially for those with nothing on it. Thought both sides did their best to go out and win it. No damage to either side and so makes the run in really interesting and down to either side to win or lose it on their own merit


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Shocking first half.
Really good second ,the way to handle City is to attack them.
Not a fan of the high line and City showed me why.
*Fabhino should have been off imho.*
But the Thiago one the City player is holding him so he’s off balance.
Very good game and fair result for me.
		
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Exactly the same tackle from Silva on Robertson. Thought both were the same fouls. 

Surprised KDB never got booked for the same challenge on Fabinho.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2022)

Fulham doing their normal and bottling it when success is within touch. Shocking display and howler from Ream. We'll go up but knowing Fulham would rather we get it done sooner rather than later. Think we can hold our own unless we chuck crap in like today. It'll still be watch through the hands against the top sides


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## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Only if they're out of Europa League. If theyre still in it i expect West Ham to play a weakened side that game and rightly so.
		
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Don't be so sure

We will do what we always do, not rest players , let them be tired when could rotate a bit 

Antonio Bowen rice soucek zouma 

Zouma limped off so now a doubt

Should have tested zouma and Antonio imo


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Exactly the same tackle from Silva on Robertson. Thought both were the same fouls.

Surprised KDB never got booked for the same challenge on Fabinho.
		
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cost me chunks no KDB card sigh

thought the ref was pretty poor to be honest, seemed his main concern was keeping 22 on the park, Liverpool definitely fortunate not to lose a man


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			cost me chunks no KDB card sigh

thought the ref was pretty poor to be honest, seemed his main concern was keeping 22 on the park, *Liverpool definitely fortunate not to lose a man*

Click to expand...

Really?? Im not sure any of the bookings were anything more than yellows. 

The Thiago one where he was fouled by Rodri and his mommentum took him into KDB was probably the only contentious one.

Taylor not giving a blatant corner was hilarious.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't be so sure

We will do what we always do, not rest players , let them be tired when could rotate a bit

Antonio Bowen rice soucek zouma

Zouma limped off so now a doubt

Should have tested zouma and Antonio imo
		
Click to expand...

If they get through to the Europa final i'd be amazed if Moyes played full strength sides in the remaining 2 league games.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Really?? Im not sure any of the bookings were anything more than yellows.

The Thiago one where he was fouled by Rodri and his mommentum took him into KDB was probably the only contentious one.

Taylor not giving a blatant corner was hilarious.
		
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I think there was a tackle from Thiago earlier in the second half were he could of been given a yellow but think he let a few go - no idea how KDB didn’t get a booking for that late one on Fabinho 

Did giggle at a VAR check for handball where the ref didn’t even think it hit any City player 😂 and still didn’t give a corner


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			If they get through to the Europa final i'd be amazed if Moyes played full strength sides in the remaining 2 league games.
		
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Would it depend on whether they needed wins or at least a couple of points to get qualification for next season? If the get to the final and win then of course but would you risk missing out next season??


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think there was a tackle from Thiago earlier in the second half were he could of been given a yellow but think he let a few go - no idea how KDB didn’t get a booking for that late one on Fabinho

Did giggle at a VAR check for handball where the ref didn’t even think it hit any City player 😂 and still didn’t give a corner
		
Click to expand...

Thiago was always getting a card for the next one regardless after the KDB one.

Mad,the var convo mustve been " was it handball?, "no it came off his thigh" - "ok ive given a goal kick" 🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 10, 2022)

Apparently Dean Smith's half time talk "lads, I don't think this team know how to win games, go for it" 🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Would it depend on whether they needed wins or at least a couple of points to get qualification for next season? If the get to the final and win then of course but would you risk missing out next season??
		
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By the time they play City (game 37) youd expect the league standings to be all but done.

If they're in the final against anyone but Barcelona, i'm sure they'd fancy their chances.

Whats more important, finishing 5/6th  or finishing 7th and having a chamce to win a trophy?

Dont forget, winning the europa this season  guarantees CL football next season.

Trophies for me every day of the week.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			By the time they play City (game 37) youd expect the league standings to be all but done.

If they're in the final against anyone but Barcelona, i'm sure they'd fancy their chances.

Whats more important, finishing 5/6th  or finishing 7th and having a chamce to win a trophy?

Dont forget, winning the europa this season  guarantees CL football next season.

Trophies for me every day of the week.
		
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Totally agree and if you get to the final you put the best XI out you can. Worse case scenario and they finish 7th isn't that Europa Conference anyway? It seems so much harder to win than when we got to the final even though we beat Shakter Donetsk, Juventus, Wolfsburg and Hamburg  https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleag...84469c8ed710-1000--route-to-the-final-fulham/


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Thiago was always getting a card for the next one regardless after the KDB one.

Mad,the var convo mustve been " was it handball?, "no it came off his thigh" - "ok ive given a goal kick" 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Is that only because VAR can only be used for certain decisions and whether it's a goal kick/corner isn't one of them? Exactly the same as if the ref gives a corner but VAR checks that it's not a penalty. Even if the replay shows that the ball has come off the attacker and it should be a goal kick VAR can't change it from a corner to a goal kick.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			By the time they play City (game 37) youd expect the league standings to be all but done.

If they're in the final against anyone but Barcelona, i'm sure they'd fancy their chances.

Whats more important, finishing 5/6th  or finishing 7th and having a chamce to win a trophy?

Dont forget, winning the europa this season  guarantees CL football next season.

Trophies for me every day of the week.
		
Click to expand...

We can't get Barca in the final, we have them in the semis if we beat Lyon (providing they beat Frankfurt)


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is that only because VAR can only be used for certain decisions and whether it's a goal kick/corner isn't one of them? Exactly the same as if the ref gives a corner but VAR checks that it's not a penalty. Even if the replay shows that the ball has come off the attacker and it should be a goal kick VAR can't change it from a corner to a goal kick.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah i know that, its just madness that they cant rectify the mistake when its been proven the initial decision is wrong.

It'll soon change when the scenario you describe happens.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We can't get Barca in the final, we have them in the semis if we beat Lyon (providing they beat Frankfurt)
		
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So the point remains. You've got a chance in a 1 off game to get CL football, surely leading upto it, you rest your best players given the circumstances?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			So the point remains. You've got a chance in a 1 off game to get CL football, surely leading upto it, you rest your best players given the circumstances?
		
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We have a one off game Thursday to get to the semi final 

We didn't rest our best players today

Much as I don't like noble he could have given rice a rest or Antonio a rest with Bowen up top as he been out and is fresher 

We didn't 

Same against villa between the Seville games when we were 1-0 down from first leg 

Yes we should be resting players but it's not a certainty


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We have a one off game Thursday to get to the semi final

We didn't rest our best players today

Much as I don't like noble he could have given rice a rest or Antonio a rest with Bowen up top as he been out and is fresher

We didn't

Same against villa between the Seville games when we were 1-0 down from first leg

Yes we should be resting players but it's not a certainty
		
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Bit of a difference as there's 7 games left now.

Its all hypothetical. They need to win at least 2 games and draw the other before it becomes a possibility.


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2022)

Personal opinion but definitely time for West ham to throw every egg into the Europa basket. Think they should've found a way to rest a few today (Antonio especially), also think they should probably be playing their best side Thursday but assume Moyes will persevere with Areola in the nets.

Winning Europa and qualifying for the CL compared to fighting for 5th/6th/7th/8th (4th is surely out of reach now) 

Seems the players mind are on the European games anyway


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Personal opinion but definitely time for West ham to throw every egg into the Europa basket. Think they should've found a way to rest a few today (Antonio especially), also think they should probably be playing their best side Thursday but assume Moyes will persevere with Areola in the nets.

Winning Europa and qualifying for the CL compared to fighting for 5th/6th/7th/8th (4th is surely out of reach now)

Seems the players mind are on the European games anyway
		
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Very well put.

Winning the EL puts you straight into the group stage too, theyd be unseeded if they finished 4th and would more than likely have a harder draw.

4 wins is all it takes


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## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Personal opinion but definitely time for West ham to throw every egg into the Europa basket. Think they should've found a way to rest a few today (Antonio especially), also think they should probably be playing their best side Thursday but assume Moyes will persevere with Areola in the nets.

Winning Europa and qualifying for the CL compared to fighting for 5th/6th/7th/8th (4th is surely out of reach now)

Seems the players mind are on the European games anyway
		
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Moyes spent 30 million on vlasic who personally I think given time is gonna be a good player for us

Yet he doesn't start him today in favour of keeping the same team

Personally I'd of rested zouma, rice, Antonio, Bowen minimum today 

Given diop, noble, vlasic and yarmeleko a game


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Exactly the same tackle from Silva on Robertson. Thought both were the same fouls.

Surprised KDB never got booked for the same challenge on Fabinho.
		
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I think the ref let a lot go and they did take some liberties.
But that tackle by Fabinho looked really nasty and deliberate .
Maybe the slow Mo makes it look worse ,but don’t disagree there were others.


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## Foxholer (Apr 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			Personal opinion but definitely time for West ham to throw every egg into the Europa basket. Think they should've found a way to rest a few today (Antonio especially), also think they should probably be playing their best side Thursday but assume Moyes will persevere with Areola in the nets.

Winning Europa and qualifying for the CL compared to fighting for 5th/6th/7th/8th (4th is surely out of reach now)

Seems the players mind are on the European games anyway
		
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Tough call financially....
Geting into Europa Semi is worth about £1m
Finishing a place higher in Prem League is worth around £3 to 4m, plus the likelihood of EL next year.
Can Hammers actually win EL this year? I doubt it, though would love to see it.
So my (financial) emphasis would be on PL from after Thursday, to stay 7th at worst.


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## Dando (Apr 11, 2022)

Neil warnock has stated that when he dies he doesn’t want a minutes silence.
He wants the crowd to chant “Neil warnock is a w⚓️“ 🤣🤣🤣


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## Neilds (Apr 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			Personal opinion but definitely time for West ham to throw every egg into the Europa basket. Think they should've found a way to rest a few today (Antonio especially), also think they should probably be playing their best side Thursday but assume Moyes will persevere with Areola in the nets.

Winning Europa and qualifying for the CL compared to fighting for 5th/6th/7th/8th (4th is surely out of reach now)

Seems the players mind are on the European games anyway
		
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If West Ham can qualify for the Champions League by winning the Europa League, does that mean Rotherham Utd can qualify as Papa Johns Trophy winners? 
Up the Millers!


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## Tashyboy (Apr 11, 2022)

Neilds said:



			If West Ham can qualify for the Champions League by winning the Europa League, does that mean Rotherham Utd can qualify as Papa Johns Trophy winners? 
Up the Millers!
		
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Neilds are Rotherham stuttering. Look a bit like Scottie (cost a pair of shoes) scheffler at the 18th at the moment. Yet they dominated the division for so long.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Tough call financially....
Geting into Europa Semi is worth about £1m
Finishing a place higher in Prem League is worth around £3 to 4m, plus the likelihood of EL next year.
Can Hammers actually win EL this year? I doubt it, though would love to see it.
So my (financial) emphasis would be on PL from after Thursday, to stay 7th at worst.
		
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Finances shouldn't get in the way of trying to win trophies.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Finances shouldn't get in the way of trying to win trophies.
		
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You haven't met our owners.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			You haven't met our owners.
		
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We both know if you gave them the option of an extra £4m or a european trophy, £4.5m and  CL football next year  they'd take the latter.

Like i said earlier, it wont matter unless they get to the final.

By that time it'll be after your 36th game so i would expect Moyes to rest his main men for the last 2 games v City at Home and Brighton Away.

Just looked, all 4 games are finely poised too.


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## Orikoru (Apr 11, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Tottenham score 9 goals in their last 2 games and Harry Kane doesn’t get 1.
I wonder what odds the bookies would have given
		
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7 assists though in his last 3 games! (According to Fantasy league.) He really is one of the most complete footballers I've ever seen. He'd even do a better job in defence than some of our players.


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## Foxholer (Apr 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Finances shouldn't get in the way of trying to win trophies.
		
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That - and the likelihood of (reasonable) comments like PJ87s - was the reason for the '1st line disclaimer'.
I'm somewhat ambivalent, but inclined, just, to opt for the Prem League/Financial position, which would also provide European Football next year. I just don't feel they/we are likely to win EL this year - but hope to be wrong!


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## Foxholer (Apr 11, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Tottenham score 9 goals in their last 2 games and Harry Kane doesn’t get 1.
I wonder what odds the bookies would have given
		
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Well, Tottenham scoring that many goals in 2 games would be highly against the odds in the 1st place! 
One of Kanes 'qualities' is that he's so dangerous that he drags defences away for others to pounce on. Might not help _his_ statistics, but helps the team ones!


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## Neilds (Apr 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Neilds are Rotherham stuttering. Look a bit like Scottie (cost a pair of shoes) scheffler at the 18th at the moment. Yet they dominated the division for so long.
		
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They are having a bit of a wobble.  Dominated on Saturday but only one shot on target. No goals form the strikers for a few games as well.  We have a couple of games in hand over MK Dons in 2nd (3 points ahead) so hopefully will be ok, but need a turn round soon!


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## Foxholer (Apr 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			We both know if you gave them the option of an extra £4m or a european trophy, £4.5m and  CL football next year  they'd take the latter.

Like i said earlier, it wont matter unless they get to the final.

By that time it'll be after your 36th game so i would expect Moyes to rest his main men for the last 2 games v City at Home and Brighton Away.

Just looked, all 4 games are finely poised too.
		
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It's rather different for teams 'on the edge' from those virtually guaranteed CL football every year. Even just getting into CL is hugely rewarding, with extra benefits for 'reasonable' results even just in gtoup stages! But for relative minnows, with smaller squads and far less backing, it's a gamble - either way!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			It's rather different for teams 'on the edge' from those virtually guaranteed CL football every year. Even just getting into CL is hugely rewarding, with extra benefits for 'reasonable' results even just in gtoup stages! But for relative minnows, with smaller squads and far less backing, it's a gamble - either way!
		
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Of course and i totally understand that. Finishing 4th isnt easy in this league and as it stands West Ham wont finish 4th with the quality around them.

They're currently sitting in 6th and will probably finish between 6th-8th looking at their games coming up. 

If and its a big if, they beat Lyon (which i think they will) and either Barca or Frankfurt they've got either  Atlanta/Leipzig or Rangers/Braga in the final. 

I'd say those games are easier than  Chelsea away City at home

In my opinion it'd be easier (not easy!) to win the Europa cup rather than finish 4th.

I wonder where the owners really expected West ham to finish at the start of the season?  I'd wager 6th-8th.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 11, 2022)

Neilds said:



			If West Ham can qualify for the Champions League by winning the Europa League, does that mean Rotherham Utd can qualify as Papa Johns Trophy winners? 
Up the Millers!
		
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Neilds are Rotherham stuttering. Look a bit like Scottie (cost a pair of shoes) scheffler at the 18th at the moment. Yet they dominated the division for so long.


Foxholer said:



			Well, Tottenham scoring that many goals in 2 games would be highly against the odds in the 1st place! 
One of Kanes 'qualities' is that he's so dangerous that he drags defences away for others to pounce on. Might not help _his_ statistics, but helps the team ones!
		
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it’s odd you say that. I thought the same about Son a few seasons back and said the same at the time. I really liked him And still do. Yet others thought he was rammel.


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## Foxholer (Apr 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			...
it’s odd you say that. I thought the same about Son a few seasons back and said the same at the time. I really liked him And still do. Yet others thought he was rammel.
		
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I think he's always been pretty good, but has improved his versatility so not just pouncing on opportunities from Kane. Haven't actually seen all that much of him (or Tottenham in general), so that perception could be... rammel!


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## Beezerk (Apr 11, 2022)

Great game yesterday, they must be the best two teams in Europe by a country mile, astonishing stuff.
I really can't see how any Liverpool fan can moan on about tactical fouling anymore, talk about desperation fouls in that final 10 minutes


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## Tashyboy (Apr 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Great game yesterday, they must be the best two teams in Europe by a country mile, astonishing stuff.
I really can't see how any Liverpool fan can moan on about tactical fouling anymore, talk about desperation fouls in that final 10 minutes 

Click to expand...

Sometimes You wish fragger had given you an infraction so you could not read the comments. 😖 sounds like I Missed a good un. That an the masters. On a positive I saw the pirate show by the pool 😳🤔😖


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Great game yesterday, they must be the best two teams in Europe by a country mile, astonishing stuff.
I really can't see how any Liverpool fan can moan on about tactical fouling anymore, talk about desperation fouls in that final 10 minutes 

Click to expand...

Personally i've never had a problem with City tactical fouling or any other team for that matter. I love it, it's a part of football that has to stay.

It's how it gets managed by the refs that annoys me.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Sometimes You wish fragger had given you an infraction so you could not read the comments. 😖 sounds like I Missed a good un. That an the masters. On a positive I saw the pirate show by the pool 😳🤔😖
		
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What pool Tashy? Are you on yer jollies? You've not mentioned it...😉


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## Tashyboy (Apr 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			What pool Tashy? Are you on yer jollies? You've not mentioned it...😉
		
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Watching grand sprogg as a mermaid in Peter Pan 🤔😂


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## Tashyboy (Apr 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Personally i've never had a problem with City tactical fouling or any other team for that matter. I love it, it's a part of football that has to stay.

It's how it gets managed by the refs that annoys me.
		
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If and I don’t know because I Never saw the game. Was it Karma, is it what comes around goes around. I don’t know. Personally from a city fans point of view they don’t have a leg to stand on re complaining. But I totally agree it’s how it is managed by refs that is the problem.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			If and I don’t know because I Never saw the game. Was it Karma, is it what comes around goes around. I don’t know. Personally from a city fans point of view they don’t have a leg to stand on re complaining. But I totally agree it’s how it is managed by refs that is the problem.
		
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There was nothing out of the ordinary in the game for me.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			There was nothing out of the ordinary in the game for me.
		
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Apart from VAR checking for a penalty and the ref giving a goal kick.
It was clear and obviously wrong?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Apart from VAR checking for a penalty and the ref giving a goal kick.
It was clear and obviously wrong?
		
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Refs can’t use VAR to change his decision for instances you mention.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 11, 2022)

OOoo Liverpool do a few fouls so we can't complain about City anymore. Get over yourselves. The same Liverpool who are often top of the fair play league?

City have been systematic about it and the former City coach Mikel Arteta even made reference about it in the past.

We did it in a game, they have done it for 5 years, so behave.

Thiago was a very lucky boy, yup. Nowhere as lucky as Kompany's tackle on Mo the other year which was a straight red, never mind a second yellow.

I don't like the high line that we operate, but it obviously has great results, but against City there are times we should drop off just another 5-10 yards as their delivery is better than everyone else, and it's also into world class players, so feel we should alter our approach at least against them.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Refs can’t use VAR to change his decision for instances you mention.
		
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Yes I know but if they are going to have it then use it for obvious errors.
Just thought it was out of the ordinary


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## Stuart_C (Apr 12, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			OOoo Liverpool do a few fouls so we can't complain about City anymore. Get over yourselves. The same Liverpool who are often top of the fair play league?

City have been systematic about it and the former City coach Mikel Arteta even made reference about it in the past.

We did it in a game, they have done it for 5 years, so behave.

Thiago was a very lucky boy, yup. Nowhere as lucky as Kompany's tackle on Mo the other year which was a straight red, never mind a second yellow.

I don't like the high line that we operate, but it obviously has great results, but against City there are times we should drop off just another 5-10 yards as their delivery is better than everyone else, and it's also into world class players, so feel we should alter our approach at least against them.
		
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The high line works, but theres no room for error. Matip wasnt out quick enough.

We cant just drop 5-10yrds because our whole game is based on that high line. It works and the stats have proved it works well. Stick with it.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 12, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			OOoo Liverpool do a few fouls so we can't complain about City anymore. Get over yourselves. The same Liverpool who are often top of the fair play league?

City have been systematic about it and the former City coach Mikel Arteta even made reference about it in the past.

We did it in a game, they have done it for 5 years, so behave.

Thiago was a very lucky boy, yup*. Nowhere as lucky as Kompany's tackle on Mo the other year which was a straight red, never mind a second yellow.*

I don't like the high line that we operate, but it obviously has great results, but against City there are times we should drop off just another 5-10 yards as their delivery is better than everyone else, and it's also into world class players, so feel we should alter our approach at least against them.
		
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As Lucky as Milner against City earlier in the season?


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## fundy (Apr 12, 2022)

Great first half for Chelsea, given themselves a chance to get through now

Both ties ideally poised now, Munich need something against Villareal still


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Great first half for Chelsea, given themselves a chance to get through now

Both ties ideally poised now, Munich need something against Villareal still
		
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They have done well so far but a long way to go.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 12, 2022)

Now we have a game. Can Chelsea keep this intent and keep on playing this way. Real definitely need to wake up


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## Dando (Apr 12, 2022)

Handball?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 12, 2022)

Dando said:



			Handball?
		
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Apparently. Very unlucky


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## adam6177 (Apr 12, 2022)

Great game for the neutral this.  Rightly chalked off goal just now.... Grandstand finish for someone on the cards.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 12, 2022)

Not chalking that off


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## fundy (Apr 12, 2022)

some game this

10 mins to go and both games going to extra time? surely not


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## fundy (Apr 12, 2022)

Villareal score, Munich going out?


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## fundy (Apr 12, 2022)

Hats off to Emery and his side, dont think Liverpool will be unhappy mind. Super short price the winner this year is an English club now


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## Stuart_C (Apr 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hats off to Emery and his side, dont think Liverpool will be unhappy mind. Super short price the winner this year is an English club now
		
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I'll take that. We've still got a job to do tomorrow though. No room for complacency.


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## fundy (Apr 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'll take that. We've still got a job to do tomorrow though. No room for complacency.
		
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I bet you will, with bells on lol. Good luck against City in the final


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## Stuart_C (Apr 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			I bet you will, with bells on lol. Good luck against City in the final 

Click to expand...

It's only a semi final saturday 😉


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			The high line works, but theres no room for error. Matip wasnt out quick enough.

We cant just drop 5-10yrds because our whole game is based on that high line. It works and the stats have proved it works well. Stick with it.
		
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You can.

Decisions can or should be available on the pitch. Play it 95% of the time but if  you are giving the opposition 3 or 4 easy chances by late running midfielders change it. I’m not saying defend on the edge of the box just 5 to 10 yards deeper. It then has to be a near perfect pass as less space to play into and less chance of running through to Alison as he plays as a sweeper keeper. 

When mo scored the wonder goal against city at Anfield it should have been the winner. Instead we defended high and city had 3 or 4 easy chances within 10 mins and scored from 1. Just amend your philosophy at key points or against particular opponents not at the drop of a hat. No tactics work 100% of the time.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 12, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			You can.

Decisions can or should be available on the pitch. Play it 95% of the time but if  you are giving the opposition 3 or 4 easy chances by late running midfielders change it. I’m not saying defend on the edge of the box just 5 to 10 yards deeper. It then has to be a near perfect pass as less space to play into and less chance of running through to Alison as he plays as a sweeper keeper.

When mo scored the wonder goal against city at Anfield it should have been the winner. Instead we defended high and city had 3 or 4 easy chances within 10 mins and scored from 1. Just amend your philosophy at key points or against particular opponents not at the drop of a hat. No tactics work 100% of the time.
		
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If my memory serves me right here, the equaliser we conceded came from a throw in, in their LB position, they passed through us and another KDB deflected shot. It had nothing to do with a high line. 

If Matip steps up a fraction quicker we dont concede that 2nd goal sunday.

I get a feeling Klopps high line is like Benitez's zonal marking in the punditry world.


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## hairball_89 (Apr 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			If my memory serves me right here, the equaliser we conceded came from a throw in, in their LB position, they passed through us and another KDB deflected shot. It had nothing to do with a high line.

*If Matip steps up a fraction quicker we dont concede that 2nd goal sunday.*

I get a feeling Klopps high line is like Benitez's zonal marking in the punditry world.
		
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Or trent tracks the runner, for me.

Either way, the high line stays. it's brilliant. it's what makes us so dominant. As for Sunday? City were just better than us.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 12, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



*Or trent tracks the runner, for me.*

Either way, the high line stays. it's brilliant. it's what makes us so dominant. As for Sunday? City were just better than us.
		
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They're coached specifically to play the offside. Why would he track the runner?


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			If my memory serves me right here, the equaliser we conceded came from a throw in, in their LB position, they passed through us and another KDB deflected shot. It had nothing to do with a high line.

If Matip steps up a fraction quicker we dont concede that 2nd goal sunday.

I get a feeling Klopps high line is like Benitez's zonal marking in the punditry world.
		
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You may be right on the goal, but I just know that city had 3 or 4 easy chances after we went ahead by just putting balls over the top, which they were onside for.

Yes, or you drop off if no pressure on the ball.

We're talking KDB, Silva, Rodri putting these balls through to speed merchants like Sterling. Not Holgate through to Tosun here.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			You may be right on the goal, but I just know that city had 3 or 4 easy chances after we went ahead by just putting balls over the top, which they were onside for.

Yes, or you drop off if no pressure on the ball.

We're talking KDB, Silva, Rodri putting these balls through to speed merchants like Sterling. Not Holgate through to Tosun here. 

Click to expand...

Theyre a fantastic side, they will always create chances. It's what they do.

I get your point  but if the defence drops 5-10yards then the midfield and attackers have to do the same. Then game plan changes and we're too far in for that. 

Keep it as it is, take the bumps in the road.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2022)

How are Arsenal fams feeling seeing a Emery side win a European trophy and get to the semis of the CL in 18 months?


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## Orikoru (Apr 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			How are Arsenal fams feeling seeing a *Emery *side win a European trophy and get to the semis of the CL in 18 months?
		
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He has always been a cup specialist to be fair. It's the league he struggles with.


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			How are Arsenal fams feeling seeing a Emery side win a European trophy and get to the semis of the CL in 18 months?
		
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Ill answer as a fan not a fam 

Pleased for him, he got a pretty rough ride at Arsenal, both from the club and the fans (me included). Was a massively poisoned chalice being the manager to follow Wenger, and things were pretty toxic when he came on board. He was pigeon holed very early on and given little backing from the club then shown the door. Subsequent golden child manager whose face fits far more has been given more resources, more control, more backing yet not delivered any better results (despite having a bunch of decent youngsters breaking through). And will be given a new contract.

Funny game football....


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ill answer as a fan not a fam 

Pleased for him, he got a pretty rough ride at Arsenal, both from the club and the fans (me included). Was a massively poisoned chalice being the manager to follow Wenger, and things were pretty toxic when he came on board. He was pigeon holed very early on and given little backing from the club then shown the door. Subsequent golden child manager whose face fits far more has been given more resources, more control, more backing yet not delivered any better results (despite having a bunch of decent youngsters breaking through). And will be given a new contract.

Funny game football....
		
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I wonder how FamTV are taking it 🤣


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I wonder how FamTV are taking it 🤣
		
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more chance of you knowing than me lol


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2022)

How is this not a red card for the thug challenge on Foden, not even a yellow according to the ref lol


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## Swango1980 (Apr 13, 2022)

Ref has lost the game already in City v Athletico. Disgraceful challenge on Foden, head split open, and not even a yellow


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## Tashyboy (Apr 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			How is this not a red card for the thug challenge on Foden, not even a yellow according to the ref lol
		
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Am at pirate village with no telly. That comment is like standing in the toilet with a guy who is 6” longer than you 🤬


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Am at pirate village with no telly. That comment is like standing in the toilet with a guy who is 6” longer than you 🤬
		
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Well Foden currently a doing a Terry Butcher impression now hes got up 5 minutes later 

This could be fun commentating for the rest of the game haha


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Well Foden currently a doing a Terry Butcher impression now hes got up 5 minutes later 

*This could be fun commentating for the rest of the gam*e haha
		
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We could all feed him false info throughout the game.

EDIT - what a hit that is from Felipe. Top corner from 30 yards out is something special.


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2022)

Hope the Liverpool fans are enjoying what theyve got to come when Simeone takes over from Klippety


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hope the Liverpool fans are enjoying what theyve got to come when Simeone takes over from Klippety 

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As long as he wins games for them 😆


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2022)

De Bruyne off injured, Walker about to join him.

Gonna be some cost even if City do get through this


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## Swango1980 (Apr 13, 2022)

Athletico game now a shocking mess. Referee has absolutely lost it. Any time wasted for the Athletico player not leaving the pitch after getting a red should NOT be added on.

I'd love it if Simeone went to Liverpool after Klopp . So easy to despise his teams


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## Dando (Apr 13, 2022)

Nice to see foden milking it and making sure the 50th roll takes him back on the pitch


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2022)

8 yellows and a red lol, to think i was sweating over 3.5 cards at one point


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 13, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			We could all feed him false info throughout the game.

EDIT - what a hit that is from Felipe. Top corner from 30 yards out is something special.
		
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And now Simeone has brought himself on for the last five minutes and scored a bullet header into the top corner.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2022)

Mental last ten mins - Atletico should have scored but some great saves , the commentary laying it on a bit thick 😂

Should Atletico have had a penalty ?


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## GB72 (Apr 13, 2022)

Waiting for the irony of a Liverpool v Man City final and the FA call for the final to be moved to Wembly for transport reasons


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2022)

All kicked off in the tunnel with Grealish and Savic


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hope the Liverpool fans are enjoying what theyve got to come when Simeone takes over from Klippety 

Click to expand...

Anyone still fancy Simone as their manager.
What a horrible team.

Great win for the reds.
Got to feel sorry for the Benfica Numes what a finisher that boy is !


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All kicked off in the tunnel with Grealish and Savic
		
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no surprise after Savic pulled his hair in the previous melee


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Anyone still fancy Simone as their manager.
What a horrible team.

Grate win for the reds.
Got to feel sorry for the Benfica Numes what a finisher that boy is !
		
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Every chance Nunez in the premier league next year, happily have him at Arsenal but dont think he fits Artetas precise mould

Liverpool fans cant wait for the Simeone era can they


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## BiMGuy (Apr 13, 2022)

I’d love Simeone at Leeds.


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## Piece (Apr 13, 2022)

Good riddance to Atletico, Simeone, Savic, etc. Bunch of strokers.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Every chance Nunez in the premier league next year, happily have him at Arsenal but dont think he fits Artetas precise mould

Liverpool fans cant wait for the Simeone era can they 

Click to expand...

He fits Klopps player profile, and he can finish.
Think Anfield would be half empty if he ever got the job , no chance.
I will run Naked down Lime St if Simone ever manages Liverpool.


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			He fits Klopps player profile, and he can finish.
Think Anfield would be half empty if he ever got the job , no chance.
I will run Naked down Lime St if Simone ever manages Liverpool.
		
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Mods can we have this post preserved please


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## 4LEX (Apr 13, 2022)

Cheered City on like they were my own tonight.

Justice done and once against Simeone exposed for the bankrupt man's Mourinho he is. He would be a huge failure in England as the refs wouldn't put up with his nonsense. The Premier league is too fast and intense for him. Best off in Italy.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Theyre a fantastic side, they will always create chances. It's what they do.

I get your point  but if the defence drops 5-10yards then the midfield and attackers have to do the same. Then game plan changes and we're too far in for that.

Keep it as it is, take the bumps in the road.
		
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Keep it 90% of the time just not 100% of the time.


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## Junior (Apr 13, 2022)

I'm really pleased for City tonight.  They dug deep in the 2nd half against a horrible Athletico team who were upto their usual tricks.   Athletico were pathetic and Simone an embarrassment.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hope the Liverpool fans are enjoying what theyve got to come when Simeone takes over from Klippety 

Click to expand...

At least it wont be a love in like we've currently got😉


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Athletico game now a shocking mess. Referee has absolutely lost it. Any time wasted for the Athletico player not leaving the pitch after getting a red should NOT be added on.

I'd love it if Simeone went to Liverpool after Klopp . So easy to despise his teams
		
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I'd worry about your own team given the shite they've served up this season.😉


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2022)

I was at the game so never seen all the City game but they showed the highlights in the pub afterwards. 

Its always great when a team is beaten by their own tricks. Having been on the end of the masters of the dark arts, i'm content how City have matched them and dumped them out. 

Athleti are a superb side, with plenty of quality right throughout them. I said earlier on this season that as much as i admire Simeone, he should be serving up much better football with the squad available than he currently does. They overuse the dark arts.

Lets hope its a repeat of the 1981 European Cup Final.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2022)

Savic has gone up in my estimation though.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd worry about your own team given the shite they've served up this season.😉
		
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Indeed. It is not like Liverpool fans have ever commented on Man Utd or other teams, even in the years they were pretty appauling


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## Slime (Apr 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Athletico game now a shocking mess. Referee has absolutely lost it. Any time wasted for the Athletico player not leaving the pitch after getting a red should NOT be added on.

*I'd love it if Simeone went to Liverpool after Klopp *. So easy to despise his teams
		
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It was only a couple of days ago that I was accused of being a liar because I said I wouldn't want Simeone at United even if he won us the league.
I think my views are now clearly and obviously understood after Atletico's latest display.


Apology accepted!


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			It was only a couple of days ago that I was accused of being a liar because I said I wouldn't want Simeone at United even if he won us the league.
I think my views are now clearly and obviously understood after Atletico's latest display.


Apology accepted!
		
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I think everyone understood your point of view, except perhaps one or two individuals. But, I guess some people seek glory over and beyond having a team that plays entertaining football and gets respect from other fans. Could call them glory hunters  

I wouldn't want him at United either.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			It was only a couple of days ago that I was accused of being a liar because I said I wouldn't want Simeone at United even if he won us the league.
I think my views are now clearly and obviously understood after Atletico's latest display.


Apology accepted!
		
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Still in the belief that if trophies were being lift - league titles , CL then fans wouldn’t care who the manager is or the tactics used 

Man Utd fans didn’t care when Ferguson players used the dark arts when needed and didn’t exactly carry themselves well and had zero morals at times


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still in the belief that if trophies were being lift - league titles , CL then fans wouldn’t care who the manager is or the tactics used

*Man Utd fans didn’t care when Ferguson players used the dark arts when needed and didn’t exactly carry themselves well and had zero morals at times*

Click to expand...

What are you implying? Are you saying that Ferguson and his United team were in the same mould as Simeone and Athletico? Or, are you trying to highlight indivudual games / periods, where United where not on their best form and had to use a change of tactics?

Seems like a very selective memory you have.

In Ferguson's tenure at Man Utd, I seem to remember one or 2 games in which United played fantastically, dominated the game and scored a good number of goals. And, when I say one or two, I of course mean several hundred.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What are you implying? Are you saying that Ferguson and his United team were in the same mould as Simeone and Athletico? Or, are you trying to highlight indivudual games / periods, where United where not on their best form and had to use a change of tactics?

Seems like a very selective memory you have.

In Ferguson's tenure at Man Utd, I seem to remember one or 2 games in which United played fantastically, dominated the game and scored a good number of goals. And, when I say one or two, I of course mean several hundred.
		
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Memory is fine 👍

So you don’t think Man Utd ever used spoiling tactics , surrounding them odd referee, had players who went to get people , had a manager on the sideline who was no saint in the way he acted during the game towards the officials and opponents. 

Man Utd we’re far from perfect and I bet you didn’t give a monkeys as long as the result was what was needed. 

It’s a results business at the end of the day and the manager will set up the team to get the result using the players at his disposal 

Atletico aren’t going to go at City because that’s just going to allow City to play to their strengths so they are going to try and spoil the game and it nearly worked for them 

But don’t pretend that Man Utd were this all flowing football team that did everything by the book


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Still in the belief that if trophies were being lift - league titles , CL then fans wouldn’t care who the manager is or the tactics used*

Man Utd fans didn’t care when Ferguson players used the dark arts when needed and didn’t exactly carry themselves well and had zero morals at times
		
Click to expand...

You mean like Chelsea fans and their "support" of Benitez after winning the Europa League. Or United (or Real Madrid) fans "support" of Mourinho. What about Valverde at Barcelona.

When you express your opinion, it is only done from your own point of view. And, if you are happy to win at any price, then that is your entitlement. But, don't assume you know how other fans feel. It is clear many fans do not simply support any manager as long as they bring some sort of success. Maybe some Man Utd fans would like Simeone, but I'm pretty sure most would hate it. I'd also imagine most Liverpool fans would also hate it, assuming Klopp was leaving.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			You mean like Chelsea fans and their "support" of Benitez after winning the Europa League. Or United (or Real Madrid) fans "support" of Mourinho. What about Valverde at Barcelona.

When you express your opinion, it is only done from your own point of view. And, if you are happy to win at any price, then that is your entitlement. But, don't assume you know how other fans feel. It is clear many fans do not simply support any manager as long as they bring some sort of success. Maybe some Man Utd fans would like Simeone, but I'm pretty sure most would hate it. I'd also imagine most Liverpool fans would also hate it, assuming Klopp was leaving.
		
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The same Man Utd fans who celebrated winning every single one of those trophies won under Mourinho or Chelsea fans under Benitez 

Unless you are going to suggest that people didn’t celebrate winning the trophies ? 

Maybe it’s because it’s been a while but is that not what fans want to see - the club winning trophies.

If Simeone took over from Klopp and we won the league and CL - the fans would be singing his name


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Memory is fine 👍

*So you don’t think Man Utd ever used spoiling tactics , surrounding them odd referee, had players who went to get people , had a manager on the sideline who was no saint in the way he acted during the game towards the officials and opponents.*

Man Utd we’re far from perfect and I bet you didn’t give a monkeys as long as the result was what was needed.

It’s a results business at the end of the day and the manager will set up the team to get the result using the players at his disposal

Atletico aren’t going to go at City because that’s just going to allow City to play to their strengths so they are going to try and spoil the game and it nearly worked for them

But don’t pretend that Man Utd were this all flowing football team that did everything by the book
		
Click to expand...

What you are blissfully ignoring, is that is the only thing Athletico are known for. That is it. If that is all United did in Ferguson's tenure, I wouldn't have enjoyed it. However, all in all, they played entertaining and attacking football. Some games were more physical than others, which I do not mind, and players at times crossed the line. Not just United players, but the opponents as well. Emotions ran high. All of that is normal. It is passion, and teams wanting to beat their rivals.

However, if that is pretty much all you have. If that is you primary tactic, then it becomes tedious and frustrating. I would not enjoy that as a fan at all.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*The same Man Utd fans who celebrated winning every single one of those trophies won under Mourinho or Chelsea fans under Benitez*

Unless you are going to suggest that people didn’t celebrate winning the trophies ?

Maybe it’s because it’s been a while but is that not what fans want to see - the club winning trophies.

*If Simeone took over from Klopp and we won the league and CL - the fans would be singing his name*

Click to expand...

You are confused about the fans support of their club and the support of their manager. Of course fans will celebrate their club winning a trophy, and of course some will support the manager (or hope the manager will adapt to the way they want their club run). Of course, you are ignoring the fact that many of the fans still didn't fancy Mourinho or Benitez the following day, or quickly lost support after the following game where the result did not go their way or the team were boring). If a manager had proper support, fans would stick by them even after a run of poor performances.

But, if you are happy to have Simeone after Klopp, I hope Liverpool help that dream come true


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



*What you are blissfully ignoring, is that is the only thing Athletico are known for. That is it.* If that is all United did in Ferguson's tenure, I wouldn't have enjoyed it. However, all in all, they played entertaining and attacking football. Some games were more physical than others, which I do not mind, and players at times crossed the line. Not just United players, but the opponents as well. Emotions ran high. All of that is normal. It is passion, and teams wanting to beat their rivals.

However, if that is pretty much all you have. If that is you primary tactic, then it becomes tedious and frustrating. I would not enjoy that as a fan at all.
		
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Really?

They weren’t like that against us when they knocked out two seasons ago , seen them a number of times and they don’t always play like that at all - they will play the opposition 

So no they aren’t always like that at all. 

They have won two league titles recently , won a couple of cups and done well in the CL but adjusting what’s needed for opposition 

Maybes it’s because they knocked out Utd and made it difficult for City that people in England are crying about their tactics


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still in the belief that *if trophies were being lift - league titles , CL then fans wouldn’t care who the manager is *or the tactics used

Man Utd fans didn’t care when Ferguson players used the dark arts when needed and didn’t exactly carry themselves well and had zero morals at times
		
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Trying asking that in a pub round Stamford Bridge and then mention Benitez's name Phil; you can tell us how you got on if you get out alive.  The man was, and is, absolutely despised despite the Europa League win.   Sarri is not greatly thought of despite the 2019 win; tolerated might be the best description.  

That's in marked contrast to other former players & managers who always get a great reception when they return, and not necessarily winning ones; one of the best receptions is always reserved for Claudio Ranieri.  If you doubt it, watch the guard of honour given to Leicester City at Stamford Bridge in their Premiership winning season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			You are confused about the fans support of their club and the support of their manager. Of course fans will celebrate their club winning a trophy, and of course some will support the manager (or hope the manager will adapt to the way they want their club run). Of course, you are ignoring the fact that many of the fans still didn't fancy Mourinho or Benitez the following day, or quickly lost support after the following game where the result did not go their way or the team were boring). If a manager had proper support, fans would stick by them even after a run of poor performances.

But, if you are happy to have Simeone after Klopp, I hope Liverpool help that dream come true 

Click to expand...

So basically what your saying is when the team is winning they will celebrate the wins but when they didn’t win then turn on the manager 👍

How’s it gone since the fans got their way and Mourinho left - have you enjoyed the lovely flowing football ?


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really?

They weren’t like that against us when they knocked out two seasons ago , seen them a number of times and they don’t always play like that at all - they will play the opposition

So no they aren’t always like that at all.

They have won two league titles recently , won a couple of cups and done well in the CL but adjusting what’s needed for opposition

Maybes it’s because they knocked out Utd and made it difficult for City that people in England are crying about their tactics
		
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Did you watch last nights game Phil?

Athletico were that bad even Simeone lost the plot with a couple of his players they were that far over the line!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			Did you watch last nights game Phil?

Athletico were that bad even Simeone lost the plot with a couple of his players they were that far over the line!!
		
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Just the last ten mins and highlights - and yep at times last night they stepped over the line which hasn’t been denied- but the point was they don’t always play like that as someone suggested. 

Savic was poor with his actions from what I saw - City certainly milked it at times


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So basically what your saying is when the team is winning they will celebrate the wins but when they didn’t win then turn on the manager 👍

How’s it gone since the fans got their way and Mourinho left - have you enjoyed the lovely flowing football ?
		
Click to expand...

No, you are an absolute nightmare to have a discussion with. Your blinkers are unbelievable, and your interpretation of what others say. I said that fans support their club, it is pretty much unconditional. If they win a trophy, they'll celebrate the win, even if Putin was manager. It does not mean they support the manager, and following celebration of the TEAMS success, many will then go back to criticising the MANAGER. Some will do so immediately, some might after a game or so. 

End of day, several United fans have told you they would NOT support Simeone as manager of United. Perhaps it would be wise for you to respect their opinion about their own club, despite what you individual beliefs are about your own club and what you would accept. As I and others have pointed out, successful managers to not guarantee support from their own fans. Why ignore this point?


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really?

They weren’t like that against us when they knocked out two seasons ago , seen them a number of times and they don’t always play like that at all - they will play the opposition

So no they aren’t always like that at all.

They have won two league titles recently , won a couple of cups and done well in the CL but adjusting what’s needed for opposition

*Maybes it’s because they knocked out Utd and made it difficult for City that people in England are crying about their tactics*

Click to expand...

Honestly. Are you saying that criticism only began in England once they knocked out Man Utd?

Maybe I'm mistaken, I could have sworn that criticism has gone on for years, and virtually every (if not every) game I have seen over that time, Athletico have played the same way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			No, you are an absolute nightmare to have a discussion with. Your blinkers are unbelievable, and your interpretation of what others say. I said that fans support their club, it is pretty much unconditional. If they win a trophy, they'll celebrate the win, even if Putin was manager. It does not mean they support the manager, and following celebration of the TEAMS success, many will then go back to criticising the MANAGER. Some will do so immediately, some might after a game or so.

End of day, several United fans have told you they would NOT support Simeone as manager of United. Perhaps it would be wise for you to respect their opinion about their own club, despite what you individual beliefs are about your own club and what you would accept. As I and others have pointed out, successful managers to not guarantee support from their own fans. Why ignore this point?
		
Click to expand...

And I have a different opinion at the end of the day - that’s all it is - maybe you need to have a look at how you preach to people and have a look in the mirror - I’m sure it was just a few posts ago where you were just dismissing some as “glory hunters” was it - so maybe look at what you post and how you speak to people before pointing fingers


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just the last ten mins and highlights - and yep at times last night they stepped over the line which hasn’t been denied- but the point was they don’t always play like that as someone suggested.

Savic was poor with his actions from what I saw - City certainly milked it at times
		
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they overstepped it from the first whistle, clear plan to one by one take Foden out. The initial foul was a disgrace. They continued to do so over and over again because that is the culture the manager has instilled over a period of years. 

each to their own but I would be utterly disgusted if that was the club I support and wouldnt want that culture anywhere near

and lol at blaming city for milking it


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And I have a different opinion at the end of the day - that’s all it is - maybe you need to have a look at how you preach to people and have a look in the mirror - I’m sure it was just a few posts ago where you were just dismissing some as “glory hunters” was it - so maybe look at what you post and how you speak to people before pointing fingers
		
Click to expand...

I perfectly respect your opinion to have Simeone as Liverpool manager. I can't make that opinion for you. I can chuckle at it, and suggest you don't speak for all Liverpool fans. However, I wouldn't dare say you WOULDN'T want Simeone as manager, only you can tell us how you feel. Given your reasons for not minding Simeone as Liverpool manager, winning trophies, than I was happy to suggest you would be a glory hunter. After all, winning trophies would be the only positive, I can't imagine you'd be happy with Simeone because you think his teams play great entertaining football, and with integrity. But, maybe I am wrong, maybe you do think that.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 14, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Trying asking that in a pub round Stamford Bridge and then mention Benitez's name Phil; you can tell us how you got on if you get out alive.  The man was, and is, absolutely despised despite the Europa League win.   Sarri is not greatly thought of despite the 2019 win; tolerated might be the best description. 

That's in marked contrast to other former players & managers who always get a great reception when they return, and not necessarily winning ones; one of the best receptions is always reserved for Claudio Ranieri.  *If you doubt it, watch the guard of honour given to Leicester City at Stamford Bridge in their Premiership winning *season.
		
Click to expand...

Ave said this before. I was. Chuffed  to bits when Leicester won the title. They came to City and battered us. It was a fantastic game. And as a neutral it was one of my fave titles to be won. It sticks in my throat when I hear fans of other teams say Leicester won it coz it was a poor season for the top prem teams. They lost three games all season. Have a look at the league table from that year it is astonishing


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			they overstepped it from the first whistle, clear plan to one by one take Foden out. The initial foul was a disgrace. They continued to do so over and over again because that is the culture the manager has instilled over a period of years.

each to their own but I would be utterly disgusted if that was the club I support and wouldnt want that culture anywhere near

and lol at blaming city for milking it
		
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“Blaming city” ? 

Not sure where that come - but it was amazing how Foden at that incident near the end was able to do about 8 barrel rolls and then was that badly injured he managed to get himself rolling back onto the pitch 

Teams will at times go over the line - we have seen it plenty of times - we can all remember the Arsenal/Man Utd battles and some of the antics that went on there.

Atletico play a combative way during the CL - not always but depending on the opposition and they certainly weren’t going to go all guns blazing against City because it would have played right into Citys hands


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“Blaming city” ?

Not sure where that come - but it was amazing how Foden at that incident near the end was able to do about 8 barrel rolls and then was that badly injured he managed to get himself rolling back onto the pitch

Teams will at times go over the line - we have seen it plenty of times - we can all remember the Arsenal/Man Utd battles and some of the antics that went on there.

Atletico play a combative way during the CL - not always but depending on the opposition and they certainly weren’t going to go all guns blazing against City because it would have played right into Citys hands
		
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You think one team going out with a clear game plan to act like that from the first whistle, targetting specific players and leaving city with 3 or 4 injuries is comparable to the Arsenal v Man U games in the late 90s where both sides went at it? 

Can see why Liverpool fans are happy with the punishment City took last night


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



*You think one team going out with a clear game plan to act like that from the first whistle, targetting specific players and leaving city with 3 or 4 injuries is comparable to the Arsenal v Man U games in the late 90s where both sides went at it?*

Can see why Liverpool fans are happy with the punishment City took last night
		
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Can I risk answering this for Liverpoolphil? Yes, he does think both are absolutely comparable, hence why he raised the issue to try and back him up. I'm happy if he corrects me however, to say they are not comparable. I just thought I'd answer if you needed a quick response, and he was currently busy on twitter


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			You think one team going out with a clear game plan to act like that from the first whistle, targetting specific players and leaving city with 3 or 4 injuries is comparable to the Arsenal v Man U games in the late 90s where both sides went at it?

*Can see why Liverpool fans are happy with the punishment City took last night*

Click to expand...

“happy with the punishment” ?!

Where did anyone suggest anything of such ?

Atletico went with a game plan - it didn’t work and City held their nerve and composure to rise above the game plan and get through


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Can I risk answering this for Liverpoolphil? Yes, he does think both are absolutely comparable, hence why he raised the issue to try and back him up. I'm happy if he corrects me however, to say they are not comparable. I just thought I'd answer if you needed a quick response, and he was currently busy on twitter 

Click to expand...

Once again posting sly cheap digs at posters all because they have a differing opinion 

As i said - look in the mirror before pointing fingers at others in the way they talk and post


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514548769395773446
One of those iconic South American players from the 90’s - sad news


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Once again posting sly cheap digs at posters all because they have a differing opinion

As i said - look in the mirror before pointing fingers at others in the way they talk and post
		
Click to expand...

Come on, don't play the victim. If you are happy to give your opinions and tell other fans what they want (despite them telling you otherwise), then you have to expect a response. Clearly, the simple response of "we do not want Simeone as our manager" is unacceptable to you, because you continue to tell us otherwise.

How was it a cheap dig? I assume I answered correctly, and you found both incidents comparable. However, I gave you the chance to say otherwise. The last sentence was simply a light-hearted ending to explain why I answered for you, related to your known love of twitter  - 

Edit - haha, I initially posted this, and then saw you had posted another twitter link before I could post this post. Perfect timing


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## Tashyboy (Apr 14, 2022)

Re Athletico last night and next years champs league. They are in fourth spot and have a tough run in. Qualification may not be straight forward.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 14, 2022)

Dando said:



			Nice to see foden milking it and making sure the 50th roll takes him back on the pitch
		
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Watch it back he rolls 1 and a half times that’s it whilst protecting his leg and head.
Foden is far from a drama queen.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Watch it back he rolls 1 and a half times that’s it whilst protecting his leg and head.
Foden is far from a drama queen.
		
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He did manage to roll back on to the pitch after being dragged off though.....


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## pokerjoke (Apr 14, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			He did manage to roll back on to the pitch after being dragged off though.....
		
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Half a roll and he was back on.
Trouble is people have to exaggerate to try and make a point that’s not true.Not just Dando on this occasion.
Dragging Foden off the pitch is just downright stupid.
Athletico and the manager are disgraceful,and I’m with other Utd supporters and hope he never gets a position in any premier league club.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Half a roll and he was back on.
Trouble is people have to exaggerate to try and make a point that’s not true.Not just Dando on this occasion.
Dragging Foden off the pitch is just downright stupid.
Athletico and the manager are disgraceful,and I’m with other Utd supporters and hope he never gets a position in any premier league club.
		
Click to expand...

I agree he didn't make a meal of the tackle. And the treatment he received was shocking. 

But he also then managed to get himself back on the pitch whilst 20 people kicked off so as to make sure he was still interrupting play. 

Tbh. It's not something I disapprove off. We (English players) may as well learn all of the tricks we will face.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree he didn't make a meal of the tackle. And the treatment he received was shocking.

But he also then managed to get himself back on the pitch *whilst 20 people kicked off so as to make sure he was still interrupting play.*

Tbh. It's not something I disapprove off. We (English players) may as well learn all of the tricks we will face.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I think the 20 people kicking off were doing a better job of interrupting play, including the Athletico player who refused to leave the pitch after being given a red card. At that point Foden could have laid out a picnic on the side of the pitch and caused less disruption at that point  

The challenge on him in the first half was awful, and pre-meditated. Imagine the consequences if someone intentionally smashed into the back of someone on the street and cut their head open. Yet on the football pitch. not only can a person get away with such an intentional act, but they don't even get booked. Fair play to Foden, who after being patched up continued to play knowing he'd be targeted by thugs.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			To be fair, I think the 20 people kicking off were doing a better job of interrupting play, including the Athletico player who refused to leave the pitch after being given a red card. At that point Foden could have laid out a picnic on the side of the pitch and caused less disruption at that point 

The challenge on him in the first half was awful, and pre-meditated. Imagine the consequences if someone intentionally smashed into the back of someone on the street and cut their head open. Yet on the football pitch. not only can a person get away with such an intentional act, but they don't even get booked. Fair play to Foden, who after being patched up continued to play knowing he'd be targeted by thugs.
		
Click to expand...

My point was more than once that melee was resolved. If he was off the pitch the game could have started with him being forced to be assessed and then having to wait to come on. 

His actions to get back on the pitch were most definitely not accidental.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



*My point was more than once that melee was resolved. If he was off the pitch the game could have started with him being forced to be assessed and then having to wait to come on.*

His actions to get back on the pitch were most definitely not accidental.
		
Click to expand...

You may need to look at the footage again. I agree that he rolled back onto the pitch. However, within 6-8 seconds, he was dragged off the pitch by Savic. As the melee continued, he was treated off the pitch, and he was back on his feet 50 seconds after the challenge. It then looks like Fernandinho (club captain I believe) gets him to sit back down on the pitch a few seconds later, but he only does so for 30 seconds. He then gets up and walks away, whilst the melee continues. 61 seconds after he gets up, the Athletico player gets a red card, which prompts further delays as he complains and refuses to leave the pitch. Play finally resumes 120 seconds after that, with Foden taking the throw in.

So, I'm not sure what delay you are referring to? At no point was play halted because Foden was on the pitch being treated. He was treated off the pitch, and the fact that he sat on the pitch for about 30 seconds made no difference at all. The players were busy fighting and the ref busy dealing with the melee. Foden was on his feet and walking around for over 3 minutes before play could resume.


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## Slime (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Once again posting sly cheap digs at posters all because they have a differing opinion*

As i said - look in the mirror before pointing fingers at others in the way they talk and post
		
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Hey, you effectively called me a liar.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			Hey, you effectively called me a liar.
		
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Might aswell find a brick wall to bang your head against 🤦‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			Hey, you effectively called me a liar.
		
Click to expand...

If that’s what you think 🤷‍♂️ - I just gave an opinion about football fans - unless you really wouldn’t celebrate winning the league and CL , then you would be very rare football fan that wouldn’t celebrate their team winning the biggest trophies in sport

But there was no sly dig towards you personally


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## Slime (Apr 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If that’s what you think 🤷‍♂️ - I just gave an opinion about football fans - unless you really wouldn’t celebrate winning the league and CL , then you would be very rare football fan that wouldn’t celebrate their team winning the biggest trophies in sport

*But there was no sly dig towards you personally*

Click to expand...

Accepted. 

But I still wouldn't want him at my club even if he'd win the Premier League.
I'd love him at yours, though.


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

decent turn around from Leicester


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## Fade and Die (Apr 14, 2022)

Wish it was St Crispins Day! 🤞🏻


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2022)

Dawson you legend.


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

Wham v Frankfurt semi anyone?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2022)

Rice rice baby


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

add another 10m to his price tag lol

and a few quid to my account for 12/1 anytime


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			add another 10m to his price tag lol

and a few quid to my account for 12/1 anytime 

Click to expand...

Not enough money in the world the rate he is progressing lol

Be leaving on a bossman in 3 years


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## Swango1980 (Apr 14, 2022)

Damn, missed West Ham second, as I had flicked over to Rangers game at the point they got a penalty and Braga down to 10 men. British teams doing well so far tonight


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

Wow some interesting scores 

Could be a West Ham vs Frankfurt semi with Barcelona needing a big comeback 

And Rangers with a great chance to make the other semi


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2022)

Bowen. What a hero 

Ball from fornals .. out of this world


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2022)

How the heck was Bowen allowed so much space to be that free in the middle - shocking defending , making it easy for West Ham


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

bye bye Barca

merry xmas Hammers


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			bye bye Barca

merry xmas Hammers 

Click to expand...

Booking the sofa now


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## pendodave (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			bye bye Barca

merry xmas Hammers 

Click to expand...

Lol
My mate has already booked his flights for....
Barcelona !
I guess it'll be a nice place to watch the game from.


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Lol
My mate has already booked his flights for....
Barcelona !
I guess it'll be a nice place to watch the game from.
		
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I would laugh but we used to do that for Arsenal in Europe and got it wrong a few times. Flightss were sub £50 before the game and £300+ after the game. Was a fair bet


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

Stunning, stunning performance and result for West Ham. Hard to think of a better one in recent years! Chuffed for them


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			Stunning, stunning performance and result for West Ham. Hard to think of a better one in recent years! Chuffed for them
		
Click to expand...

Reset and go toe to toe with Frankfurt now 

All yellow cards reset 

Just need to hope zoumas injury isn't as bad as feared


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			Stunning, stunning performance and result for West Ham. Hard to think of a better one in recent years! Chuffed for them
		
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Surely favourites now. They wont get a better chance to qualify for CL than this.


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Surely favourites now. They wont get a better chance to qualify for CL than this.
		
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I expect Leipzig are favs, got the so called easier semi final (Rangers or Braga), WHam got to beat both German teams


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 14, 2022)

Kicking off in Lyon by the sounds of things. Riot police sent in to deal with the Lyon fans.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			I expect Leipzig are favs, got the so called easier semi final (Rangers or Braga), WHam got to beat both German teams
		
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Rangers Vs us would be my dream final. Proper team , well supported


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Kicking off in Lyon by the sounds of things. Riot police sent in to deal with the Lyon fans.
		
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Shame they can't show that fight during the war


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## fundy (Apr 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Rangers Vs us would be my dream final. Proper team , well supported
		
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haha the best side cant lose every game before you play them


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## pendodave (Apr 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Surely favourites now. They wont get a better chance to qualify for CL than this.
		
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 It's very obvious that you've never supported a s#$t team in your life...
I was still suffering at 3-0 up on the 80th minute.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2022)

Mate is gonna try and get us tickets again for this one..

Finally got hold of him, he sold our quarter tickets , gonna try and get us semi tickets lol


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## Papas1982 (Apr 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Shame they can't show that fight during the war
		
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Maybe put the sherberts down.....


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## Leftitshort (Apr 14, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Maybe put the sherberts down.....
		
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I thought it was a really odd comment. What war is he talking about?


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			I would laugh but* we used to do that for Arsenal in Europe* and got it wrong a few times. Flightss were sub £50 before the game and £300+ after the game. Was a fair bet 

Click to expand...

Surprised you can remember that long ago at your age...


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## Slime (Apr 15, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			I thought it was a really odd comment. What war is he talking about?
		
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I'm assuming WWII.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2022)

Dyche sacked. Never seen that coming.

Big Sam to keep them up🤔


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Dyche sacked. Never seen that coming.

Big Sam to keep them up🤔
		
Click to expand...

wow, strange decision that one


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Dyche sacked. Never seen that coming.

Big Sam to keep them up🤔
		
Click to expand...

Man Utd next season?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Man Utd next season? 

Click to expand...

Yeah, be better than Simeone🤭🤭🤭


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## Tashyboy (Apr 15, 2022)

Do Burnley have anyone lined up to win the next 7 games 😳


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## pauljames87 (Apr 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			wow, strange decision that one
		
Click to expand...

I just don't get the timing ... After the game at the weekend just gone yes but mid week? No time to prepare for Sunday?


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## AliMc (Apr 15, 2022)

Someone said:
Burnley with a desperate roll of the Dyche


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I just don't get the timing ... After the game at the weekend just gone yes but mid week? No time to prepare for Sunday?
		
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funny thing is its a very winnable game after their opponents exploits midweek


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## pendodave (Apr 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			funny thing is its a very winnable game after their opponents exploits midweek
		
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haha. agree. But maybe they want the new man to get an easy win for starters?
Such odd timing. There must surely be something else going on. Is he going to Everton?? Has he been caught up to no good?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			funny thing is its a very winnable game after their opponents exploits midweek
		
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Exactly. Follows a pattern ..

Massive win midweek against Seville .. lose to spurs 

Hard draw against Lyon .. lose to Brentford 

Last night .. I can see us losing 

The only time it hasn't fit the pattern was when we beat villa after Seville first league but let's face it they are awful 😉


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah, be better than Simeone🤭🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

It would, but not that much better.  You might struggle to tell the difference given that they are both pretty good on the housery front.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			It would, but not that much better.  You might struggle to tell the difference given that they are both pretty good on the housery front. 

Click to expand...

Many on here have defended Burnley's style of football in recent seasons.

It would be funny if Allardyce does take the job and keep them up sending Everton down😁😁

Or even better Rafa🤣


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## pauljames87 (Apr 15, 2022)

What a game last night.

Dawson once again proves what a signing he has been. Under 3 million 67 games 8 goals .. in some important games aswell like last night

Fornals another fantastic performance 2 assists

antonio decided to put himself in beast mode 

Rice just was rice.. but made sure he didnt get booked... was verging on a suspension 

bowen just caused nothing but problems

every player did their jobs well. diop last min stand in for zouma ..  didnt put a foot wrong bar a foul .. johnson well cresswell i wouldnt say should walk back into the team .. johnson is more than up to it. better defender but not as good going forward


anyways 

into the semis we go


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## Bazzatron (Apr 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Dyche sacked. Never seen that coming.

Big Sam to keep them up🤔
		
Click to expand...

Get them down and never let them back.


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## Foxholer (Apr 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I just don't get the timing ... After the game at the weekend just gone yes but mid week? No time to prepare for Sunday?
		
Click to expand...

It puzzles me how clubs actually contact potential replacement managers in the first place...through agents? directly? An ad in the local paper? Or do they have someone on their own staff (part of) whose job it is to put feelers out. I guess agents are also contacting them about possible candidates, just as they do so about potential players.
Dyche seemed to be a fairly capable manager of lower end clubs - keeping them up or getting them back when he didn't. 
The (unexpected?) loss against Norwich was probably the trigger for action so reason for delay.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 15, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			It puzzles me how clubs actually contact potential replacement managers in the first place...through agents? directly? An ad in the local paper? Or do they have someone on their own staff (part of) whose job it is to put feelers out. I guess agents are also contacting them about possible candidates, just as they do so about potential players.
Dyche seemed to be a fairly capable manager of lower end clubs - keeping them up or getting them back when he didn't.
The (unexpected?) loss against Norwich was probably the trigger for action so reason for delay.
		
Click to expand...

I have no idea, its mental. Almost as mental as when we had moyes. he did the job he was recruited for and the Daves got too excited that MP was available for free so ditched mr safe for mr flash who almost took us down. got mr safe back and now we are in a european semi final... mental


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Dyche sacked. Never seen that coming.

Big Sam to keep them up🤔
		
Click to expand...

Ridiculous decision


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Get them down and never let them back.
		
Click to expand...

Why do you dislike Everton so much?😉😁


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## pokerjoke (Apr 15, 2022)

Superb from the Hammers last night.
Rice once again scoring and kissing the badge in front of the away supporters.
I can’t see him leaving,I hope he becomes another Gerrard and stays faithful,although I suspect he will have to turn down a lot of offers.


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## Foxholer (Apr 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			What a game last night.

Dawson once again proves what a signing he has been. Under 3 million 67 games 8 goals .. in some important games aswell like last night

Fornals another fantastic performance 2 assists

antonio decided to put himself in beast mode

Rice just was rice.. but made sure he didnt get booked... was verging on a suspension

bowen just caused nothing but problems

every player did their jobs well. diop last min stand in for zouma ..  didnt put a foot wrong bar a foul .. johnson well cresswell i wouldnt say should walk back into the team .. johnson is more than up to it. better defender but not as good going forward


anyways

into the semis we go
		
Click to expand...

First half hour they (we) looked 2nd best and Lyon looked in control and looked quite dangerous every time they had the ball. As soon as the goal came though, it was a complete turnaround! Heros all, bur Dawson in particular! Good to see Noble maintain a bit of control at the end. Would be an appropriate end of career reward to go all the way.


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## Foxholer (Apr 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I have no idea, its mental. Almost as mental as when we had moyes. he did the job he was recruited for and the Daves got too excited that MP was available for free so ditched mr safe for mr flash who almost took us down. got mr safe back and now we are in a european semi final... mental
		
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Wouldn't disagree with any of that - perhaps apart from the 'mr safe' moniker, as he's better than that - 'mr steady progress' probably better. Allardyce would be my choice for 'mr safe', as well as 'mr dull', with Andy Carroll as target man pretty much the sole attacking strategy!


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## Foxholer (Apr 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Why do you dislike Everton so much?😉😁
		
Click to expand...

Ex-wife went there?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 15, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Wouldn't disagree with any of that - perhaps apart from the 'mr safe' moniker, as he's better than that - 'mr steady progress' probably better. Allardyce would be my choice for 'mr safe', as well as 'mr dull', with Andy Carroll as target man pretty much the sole attacking strategy!
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. Massive respect for Moyes after being kicked into touch could have been easy to tell the Dave's to shove their offer 

They got lucky he wanted to return


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## Fade and Die (Apr 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Agreed. Massive respect for Moyes after being kicked into touch could have been easy to tell the Dave's to shove their offer

They got lucky he wanted to return
		
Click to expand...

Just post this quickly before LP does…..😉


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514727523824844801


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## Bazzatron (Apr 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Why do you dislike Everton so much?😉😁
		
Click to expand...

They're staying up unfortunately


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514872401816924161
RIP - YNWA


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## Tashyboy (Apr 15, 2022)

Congrats on your return to the Prem Homer.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2022)

Was on their website at one point 😂😂😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Congrats on your return to the Prem Homer.
		
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Not done yet. Tense 90 minutes to endure first. Should beat Derby but you know how unpredictable the championship is


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2022)

The 2 extremes of what can happen to the clubs that come down from the premier league in one game this. Yoyo back up or get into serious financial difficulties trying. Doesnt seem to be many sides in between


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			The 2 extremes of what can happen to the clubs that come down from the premier league in one game this. Yoyo back up or get into serious financial difficulties trying. Doesnt seem to be many sides in between 

Click to expand...

Hopefully we'll learn the lessons of the last two promotions. We definitely seem a more balanced side although way too reliant on Mitrovic at times. To be honest, the bottom 6-7 sides in the PL are al much of a muchness and enough mediocrity to give a grain of optimism we can compete next season. At least we're a step closer now we've scored


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hopefully we'll learn the lessons of the last two promotions. We definitely seem a more balanced side although way too reliant on Mitrovic at times. To be honest, the bottom 6-7 sides in the PL are al much of a muchness and enough mediocrity to give a grain of optimism we can compete next season. At least we're a step closer now we've scored
		
Click to expand...

Not seen enough to have a strong opinion but does seem youre too reliant on Mitrovic (who didnt really cut it last time in the prem), going to lose Carvalho and a bit lightweight at the back. Going to need to strengthen for sure but hands potentially tied by FFP based on the last few years losses could make it difficult

Definitely some vulnerable sides in the bottom half of the prem but most of them a bit more battle hardened too, think it will still be a battle to survive next year


what strengthening would you want to see?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			Not seen enough to have a strong opinion but does seem youre too reliant on Mitrovic (who didnt really cut it last time in the prem), going to lose Carvalho and a bit lightweight at the back. Going to need to strengthen for sure but hands potentially tied by FFP based on the last few years losses could make it difficult

Definitely some vulnerable sides in the bottom half of the prem but most of them a bit more battle hardened too, think it will still be a battle to survive next year


what strengthening would you want to see?
		
Click to expand...

Depends what price is set for Carvahlo by the tribunal but definitely a PL experienced striker, a holding midfielder and a couple of PL experienced defenders. Definitely don't want to do what we did a couple of promotions ago when we seem to buy a whole new side in the close season who had no idea how to play together as team. Think the biggest problem last time was Parker simply wasn't up to the task at that level and didn't know how to break the losing trend or set up differently and give teams new problems to solve. All too predictable and he didn't seem to know how to change things


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## Tashyboy (Apr 15, 2022)

45 mins from the promised land for Fulham and 45 minutes from making every Forest fan happy by sending Derby down.


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			45 mins from the promised land for Fulham and 45 minutes from making every Forest fan happy by sending Derby down.
		
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even Forest fans have to feel for Derby surely after the way this year has gone?


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## Tashyboy (Apr 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			even Forest fans have to feel for Derby surely after the way this year has gone?
		
Click to expand...

Not those that Ave spoken to. They would be over the moon seeing Derby play Mansfield Town next year 😳


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not those that Ave spoken to. They would be over the moon seeing Derby play Mansfield Town next year 😳
		
Click to expand...


Mansfield blowing the chances of that again!


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## fundy (Apr 15, 2022)

brilliant from Derby, utterly brilliant. Pop it back on ice Homie


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2022)

Up and at them early today wembley bound 🔴


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## backwoodsman (Apr 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			45 mins from the promised land for Fulham and 45 minutes from making every Forest fan happy by sending Derby down.
		
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fundy said:



			even Forest fans have to feel for Derby surely after the way this year has gone?
		
Click to expand...

I normally wish the worst on Derby week in week out - but I'd like to see them escape this year. After all, a season without an A52 derby is not really a real season (except we're going up ... )


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## Tashyboy (Apr 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Up and at them early today wembley bound 🔴
		
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Up and at them early today home bound. Have a safe trip and I hope you enjoy the first 89 mins 😉


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Up and at them early today wembley bound 🔴
		
Click to expand...

I didn't realise you went to games, I thought you were a telly clapper, just like the rest of us!
Who knew?
Every day's a school day.


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## fundy (Apr 16, 2022)

another car crash referee/VAR performance in the brighton spurs game I see

not sure how the first half ends 11 v 11


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## fundy (Apr 16, 2022)

thats one horrible looking arsenal line up


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

So the Spursy is still alive and well


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## Foxholer (Apr 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Agreed. Massive respect for Moyes after being kicked into touch could have been easy to tell the Dave's to shove their offer

They got lucky he wanted to return
		
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I think his experience with ManU convinced him that being manager of a 'massive' club was not for him, so West Ham and he are a 'good fit'. He wasn't so much 'kicked into touch' as came to the end of his contract, Pelligrini was available and the Daves were ambitious. I hope they've learned from that! He's back and they are back amongst the 'big boys' again. Long may they stay there, even if at the bottom end for a few years.


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)

Spurs giving Arsenal and United renewed hope!
Does nobody want 4th spot?


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## Billysboots (Apr 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			Spurs giving Arsenal and United renewed hope!
Does nobody want 4th spot?
		
Click to expand...

You can guarantee United won’t capitalise on other teams dropping points.


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			You can guarantee United won’t capitalise on other teams dropping points.
		
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I'm going 3-1.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

seems like City have been unable sell all their tickets ?! How can you not sell your semi final tickets ?!


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)




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## Billysboots (Apr 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 42292

seems like City have been unable sell all their tickets ?! How can you not sell your semi final tickets ?!
		
Click to expand...

City don’t often sell out games anyway. But I can certainly understand why, on an Easter weekend where travel from the northwest to London was known to be problematic, fans may have opted to stay away.

I have never agreed with semi finals being played at Wembley anyway because it devalues the FA Cup. But the lack of common sense at times, especially during a cost of living crisis the likes of which most have never seen, is breathtaking.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 42292

seems like City have been unable sell all their tickets ?! How can you not sell your semi final tickets ?!
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they’re all busy doing family stuff or working 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			City don’t often sell out games anyway. But I can certainly understand why, on an Easter weekend where travel from the northwest to London was known to be problematic, fans may have opted to stay away.

I have never agreed with semi finals being played at Wembley anyway because it devalues the FA Cup. But the lack of common sense at times, especially during a cost of living crisis the likes of which most have never seen, is breathtaking.
		
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I agree on the semi finals not being at Wembley and it being a poor choice but Liverpool managed to sell the lot and get there - it’s the semi final of the FA Cup and City are supposed to be a huge club now, is it all a bit false and financially huge 🤷‍♂️

Singing during the minutes silence 🤬 classy


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maybe they’re all busy doing family stuff or working 🤷‍♂️
		
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Some guy I know was trying to convince me a true fan is one that goes over land and sea. Misses family occasions and friends weddings to see west ham, committing £££ year 

I normally find these people are one of three things 

Lonely 
Divorced
Or skint 

Sometimes all 3


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)




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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			City don’t often sell out games anyway. But I can certainly understand why, on an Easter weekend where travel from the northwest to London was known to be problematic, fans may have opted to stay away.

I have never agreed with semi finals being played at Wembley anyway because it devalues the FA Cup. But the lack of common sense at times, especially during a cost of living crisis the likes of which most have never seen, is breathtaking.
		
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For a lot of the cockney red this is the home fixture tho


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I agree on the semi finals not being at Wembley and it being a poor choice but Liverpool managed to sell the lot and get there - it’s the semi final of the FA Cup and City are supposed to be a huge club now, is it all a bit false and financially huge 🤷‍♂️

Singing during the minutes silence 🤬 classy
		
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Sorry Phil but irony of you having a pop at fans for not going to a match is hilarious 😂😂😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sorry Phil but irony of you having a pop at fans for not going to a match is hilarious 😂😂😂😂
		
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To be fair I miss so many posts on twitter if not for this forum ..


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## BiMGuy (Apr 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I agree on the semi finals not being at Wembley and it being a poor choice but Liverpool managed to sell the lot and get there - it’s the semi final of the FA Cup and City are supposed to be a huge club now, is it all a bit false and financially huge 🤷‍♂️

Singing during the minutes silence 🤬 classy
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool have more tourists and supporters in the south of the country.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			To be fair I miss so many posts on twitter if not for this forum ..
		
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Is that all you have now ? Just posting cheap digs on social media about someone using social media 🙄


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Liverpool have more tourists and supporters in the south of the country.
		
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Also the club clearly don't rate the fixture highly either .. Liverpool full strength, city rotated as they want champs League and the league.. some fans won't travel for that


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲

What the hell was he doing


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)

United's defence, absolutely shambolic.
It's so bad, it's almost funny.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Yeah can see why city fans wanted to travel for this


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## Dando (Apr 16, 2022)

Oops


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## Swango1980 (Apr 16, 2022)

That could win the award for biggest howler of the season


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That could win the award for biggest howler of the season
		
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What happened, what game?


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## fundy (Apr 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			What happened, what game?
		
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mane tackled steffen and scored in the process in the cup game

or norwich scored at OT

or Saints scored against Arsenal 

lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			What happened, what game?
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515343189950939136


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## Swango1980 (Apr 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			What happened, what game?
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool's second goal.


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515343189950939136

Click to expand...

Oh dear, I'd line him up and take shooting practice.
It appears that row Z doesn't exist any more.


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## fundy (Apr 16, 2022)

pray for Cancelo


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

Looks like Oliver is being very lenient with the cards - both Fernandino and Silva have committed a number of late tackles that would have normally gone in the book ( almost like Atletico with their tactical fouling 😁😉)


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Also the club clearly don't rate the fixture highly either .. Liverpool full strength, city rotated as they want champs League and the league.. some fans won't travel for that
		
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Their squad should for every comp!

City fans always say how they remember the bad times etc. So surely they'd savour the opportunity to see these big games...


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## Dando (Apr 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			pray for Cancelo
		
Click to expand...

Has had stopped rolling about yet?


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## greenone (Apr 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like Oliver is being very lenient with the cards - both Fernandino and Silva have committed a number of late tackles that would have normally gone in the book ( almost like Atletico with their tactical fouling 😁😉)
		
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That should have been a yellow to Jesus for a dive, fabinho pulled out of the tackle, any contact was manufactured.


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)




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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)

Game on at The Theatre of Comedy.


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## Billysboots (Apr 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm going 3-1.
		
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As I was saying 🙄🙄


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Their squad should for every comp!

City fans always say how they remember the bad times etc. So surely they'd savour the opportunity to see these big games...
		
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Who's to say those fans who went aren't the old school .. if your club is new and built on recent success the loyals won't be as many.

Liverpool have plastics all over the country from the 80s


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)

Paul Pogba, as frustrating as he is, sometimes makes the game look so damned easy.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			Paul Pogba, as frustrating as he is, sometimes makes the game look so damned easy.
		
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If he spent as much time focusing on football as he does his hair he would be a cracking player all the time.


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)

You just can't keep a good GOAT down!
50th club hat-trick ......................................... yes, 50th!


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Who's to say those fans who went aren't the old school .. if your club is new and built on recent success the loyals won't be as many.

Liverpool have plastics all over the country from the 80s
		
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They also have sold out season ticket allocations. 

Pretty sure most of those going to the games will be ST holders and members who have been to x amount of games. 

Nit the plactics that all teams have. 

City isn't a new club. They've had a big fan base even during their time back in league 1. Their success is new, which makes it more surprising they can't sell out a semi.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 16, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 42296


You just can't keep a good GOAT down!
50th club hat-trick ......................................... yes, 50th!
		
Click to expand...

Still, just think how good this United team would have been if they didn't sign Ronaldo. Probably win the league at a canter


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			They also have sold out season ticket allocations.

Pretty sure most of those going to the games will be ST holders and members who have been to x amount of games.

Nit the plactics that all teams have.

City isn't a new club. They've had a big fan base even during their time back in league 1. Their success is new, which makes it more surprising they can't sell out a semi.
		
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It's Easter weekend 

Stupidly down at Wembley rather than a venue more central to the country 

And the trains do work at Easter weekends so was a nightmare

I can see why some people stayed away


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## Billysboots (Apr 16, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 42296


You just can't keep a good GOAT down!
50th club hat-trick ......................................... yes, 50th!
		
Click to expand...

Outrageous. That’s 50 more hat-tricks than I ever managed. Unless, of course, we’re including 3-putts in that - in which case, in comparison to me, he’s a rank amateur.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			It's Easter weekend

Stupidly down at Wembley rather than a venue more central to the country

And the trains do work at Easter weekends so was a nightmare

I can see why some people stayed away
		
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I agree about both location and the trains. Still don't see the two biggest clubs in England having this issue. 

Maybe fan loyalty is the one thing the money clubs can't replicate.


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## fundy (Apr 16, 2022)

so frustrating watching Arteta trust players proven not good enough yet again and not prepared to give any of the youth team a chance in the first team, especially after 2 or 3 have already bailed him out when he was forced to play them in the past. didnt want to buy in january but happy to let a handful go out on loan despite glaring holes in the squad but utterly exposed when he doesnt have his perfect XI available, instead we just go back to the full backs pumping in aimless crosses time and time again (spoiler: it doesnt work)

for a club that had a chance of top 4, to not have any adequate cover at full back, central midfield or striker for the second half of the season is utterly laughable. actually in danger of not finishing top 6 let alone in the CL places now. lost our last 3 now and every chance we lose the next 3 against chelsea man u and west ham


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## Swango1980 (Apr 16, 2022)

Watching Soccer Saturday program on Sky. Must have the reserve squad in this weekend, no Stelling.

However, absolutely awful. Zero enthusiasm from any of the pundits on the show, even when they were talking live when a goal was scored in their game. Dire.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree about both location and the trains. Still don't see the two biggest clubs in England having this issue.

Maybe fan loyalty is the one thing the money clubs can't replicate.
		
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That sums it up , Liverpool sold out and could have done it twice over - if it was Man Utd it would be full as well - if it was at Old Trafford and Chelsea/Arsenal were playing they would have got there no matter what.


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## Foxholer (Apr 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			...
I can see why some people stayed away
		
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I'm surprised, bordering amazed, that LPP isn't there! Or are his posts via phone?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I'm surprised, bordering amazed, that LPP isn't there! Or are his posts via phone?
		
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I starting to think he is on a stadium ban


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree about both location and the trains. Still don't see the two biggest clubs in England having this issue.

Maybe fan loyalty is the one thing the money clubs can't replicate.
		
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Location helps Liverpool, half of these fans will be from London / the south. No doubt about it . A chance to see their team without traveling far


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## Billysboots (Apr 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That sums it up , Liverpool sold out and could have done it twice over - if it was Man Utd it would be full as well - if it was at Old Trafford and Chelsea/Arsenal were playing they would have got there no matter what.
		
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But I still think, Phil, that semi finals at grounds like Old Trafford and Villa Park were special occasions, far more likely to sell out than Wembley (notwithstanding the different capacities), and fired up the imagination.

Semi finals at Wembley have always felt like odd events. Fans don’t seem to know whether they’re supposed to celebrate like they’re at a final or not. At club level Wembley should be set aside for showpiece matches. And that means finals.


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2022)

Jeez guys, give him a ####### break, it's getting boring now!


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## greenone (Apr 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree about both location and the trains. Still don't see the two biggest clubs in England having this issue.

Maybe fan loyalty is the one thing the money clubs can't replicate.
		
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City fail to fill the Etihad on a regular basis. Remember the Liverpool fans in the city end  during the champions League semi a few years ago.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Location helps Liverpool, half of these fans will be from London / the south. No doubt about it . A chance to see their team without traveling far
		
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Absolutely rubbish. 

I'd be surprised if their tickets went on sale to general public. 

They'll members with ticket history. So even if they are form London. They've have spent their cash all season going to Anfield.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree about both location and the trains. Still don't see the two biggest clubs in England having this issue.

Maybe fan loyalty is the one thing the money clubs can't replicate.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think this is about fan loyalty, it is surely about cost and size of fan base perhaps. Going to Wembley is no longer a novelty for city, it's a regular occurrence. So are big games, in England and Europe. All of this costs money, at a time when finances are stretched more than ever, in recent times. Fans have to pick and choose and city don't have the fanbase to pick up the slack. They may in 10+ years as the pot hunters start to follow them but not yet.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I'm surprised, bordering amazed, that LPP isn't there! Or are his posts via phone?
		
Click to expand...




pauljames87 said:



			I starting to think he is on a stadium ban
		
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Some are getting very obsessed with me - it’s both sweet and scary - maybe you both should find a hobby 



Billysboots said:



			But I still think, Phil, that semi finals at grounds like Old Trafford and Villa Park were special occasions, far more likely to sell out than Wembley (notwithstanding the different capacities), and fired up the imagination.

Semi finals at Wembley have always felt like odd events. Fans don’t seem to know whether they’re supposed to celebrate like they’re at a final or not. At club level Wembley should be set aside for showpiece matches. And that means finals.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that the semi finals were better at other grounds and thats how it should - think the issue with Villa park is the size but the FA will now just want to keep the money within Wembley 

And yes you should only play at Wembley in a final - it’s how it was when I was growing up 

But that imo doesn’t change that the big clubs will sell out their semi final tickets regardless of where they are hosted


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## Swango1980 (Apr 16, 2022)

Are we now having a debate on who has the best fans / most committed fans / more fans!? Does the winner get a trophy?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Absolutely rubbish.

I'd be surprised if their tickets went on sale to general public.

They'll members with ticket history. So even if they are form London. They've have spent their cash all season going to Anfield.
		
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Can be friends of members, 

I know people who are buying hammers memberships now to get tickets for the Frankfurt game before general sale ..

Who's to say they aren't members who pay for a yearly membership? I used to have one £40 a year and prioty booking for cup games etc


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Are we now having a debate on who has the best fans / most committed fans / more fans!? Does the winner get a trophy? 

Click to expand...

Can we go by followers on social media 😅


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Can be friends of members,

I know people who are buying hammers memberships now to get tickets for the Frankfurt game before general sale ..

Who's to say they aren't members who pay for a yearly membership? I used to have one £40 a year and prioty booking for cup games etc
		
Click to expand...

I think you're underestimating the fan base size of Liverpool.if you're thinking that West ham's is even remotely comparable. 

I would be amazed if any liverpool fan at Wembley today was at their first game of the season. 

They have lots of glory hunting fans I'm sure. But those are at home.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			I think you're underestimating the fan base size of Liverpool.if you're thinking that West ham's is even remotely comparable.

I would be amazed if any liverpool fan at Wembley today was at their first game of the season.

They have lots of glory hunting fans I'm sure. But those are at home.
		
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But that's the thing, I'll use man United as another example

I know a fair few who travel from London to Manchester every game

My colleague has a man United season ticket lives in Uxbridge

So all those fans live here. So travel for them to wembly no issue 

Man city don't have the wide spreading fan base yet.


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Are we now having a debate on who has the best fans / most committed fans / more fans!? Does the winner get a trophy? 

Click to expand...

Think we need Jasper Carrot for The Cup Winners, Cup Winners  Cup!


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## Foxholer (Apr 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Some are getting very obsessed* with me - it’s both sweet and scary - maybe you both should find a hobby
...
		
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I'm certainly not!
Just surprised that YOUR (apparent) obsession doesn't convert to attendance of 'big' games!
It's 'surprise' as per the original post, that you have 'interpreted' as something else!
Deserved result btw. If assisted by something of an 'Oh F...' incident early on.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Apr 16, 2022)

WEMBLEY WEMBLEY WEMBLEY


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

They don’t do boring games do they 

not sure why Guardiola doesn’t make changes during the game - they are crying out for someone to be a focal point up top for them and whilst Grealish scored he was shocking for most of that game - will never understand why they paid £100mil for him when he wasn’t really needed - pay the extra £50mil and they could have had Kane


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			But that's the thing, I'll use man United as another example

I know a fair few who travel from London to Manchester every game

My colleague has a man United season ticket lives in Uxbridge

So all those fans live here. So travel for them to wembly no issue

Man city don't have the wide spreading fan base yet.
		
Click to expand...

That kind dispels your idea though. 

If UTD can have fans travel to Manchester each week then I'm sure they can have plenty travel to London once a season. 

Also, let's be honest. Those fans won't account for the amount city were missing today. 

Any big club in England should fill their allocation of they truly claim to be a big club.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			That kind dispels your idea though.

If UTD can have fans travel to Manchester each week then I'm sure they can have plenty travel to London once a season.

Also, let's be honest. Those fans won't account for the amount city were missing today.

Any big club in England should fill their allocation of they truly claim to be a big club.
		
Click to expand...

Surely size of fanbase does not matter?

I mean recently the foxes have won the premier League and the FA cup. By trophies won I would say they are a bigger club than spurs but fan base wise? Spurs walk over them as do we but we are nothing compared 

Newcastle massive fan base

Having a lot of fans doesn't make you a big club no?


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Surely size of fanbase does not matter?

I mean recently the foxes have won the premier League and the FA cup. By trophies won I would say they are a bigger club than spurs but fan base wise? Spurs walk over them as do we but we are nothing compared

Newcastle massive fan base

Having a lot of fans doesn't make you a big club no?
		
Click to expand...

It's not size. It's commitment of the fan base. City have more than enough to fill their allocation. They just chose not too. It isn't because pool filled their end with plastics. 

I have no doubt if pool hadn't sold their allocation you'd have been all over em. 

Anyways. The game is over now. At least this convo moved you on a little from petty point scoring. 

You can go back to that now.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			It's not size. It's commitment of the fan base. City have more than enough to fill their allocation. They just chose not too. It isn't because pool filled their end with plastics.

I have no doubt if pool hadn't sold their allocation you'd have been all over em.

Anyways. The game is over now. At least this convo moved you on a little from petty point scoring.

You can go back to that now.
		
Click to expand...

I've never once called fans out for not selling tickets? It's a pathetic measure of preserved success 

We will sell out the OS for Frankfort as we did Lyon does that make us a big team? No 

I really don't give two hoots if Liverpool sell theirs or not same if city sell theirs or not.

Only one person seemed to care that city hadn't sold out and thought it was newsworthy 

Not really is it.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 16, 2022)

Wonder if any of those City fans struggled with paying for an away trip to Madrid & an FA Cup semi final in the same week?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 16, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Wonder if any of those City fans struggled with paying for an away trip to Madrid & an FA Cup semi final in the same week?
		
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Not a proper fan unless you mortgage the house to go see every game


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515375152837627917
bit of class from Pep


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 16, 2022)

Decent game. Wonder how much Atheltico took out of City. Would love to see a Liverpool v Chelsea final


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## hairball_89 (Apr 16, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Decent game. Wonder how much Atheltico took out of City. Would love to see a Liverpool v Chelsea final
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I can take another. But I'll take the same outcome!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like Oliver is being very lenient with the cards - both Fernandino and Silva have committed a number of late tackles that would have normally gone in the book ( almost like Atletico with their tactical fouling 😁😉)
		
Click to expand...

Oliver had a shocker. Good to see the protection of Fernandinho is still going strong....

4 tackles before a card came out and it should've been a red.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2022)

Dando said:



			Has had stopped rolling about yet?
		
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Heard he's just got up now.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2022)

Onto the game 1st half brilliant, 2nd half not so but done enough to win the game. Should've wrapped it up long before their 2nd.

Looking forward to another final and  all focus on yernited Tuesday.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Location helps Liverpool, half of these fans will be from London / the south. No doubt about it . A chance to see their team without traveling far
		
Click to expand...

Listen soft lad, you clearly havent got a clue what you're on about again. You have 3-4 posts on every page, and constantly show you havent got a clue.

Liverpool had a ballot based on previous attendance at a few of the games, whereas City offered 4 tickets to anyone. The people in the ballot would have had to be season ticket holders or had to have gone to a few previous games.

Whats your West ham affiliation - weren't you saying the other day that you would turn down some tickets for a QF, but would go to a SF or something?

You are the absolute worst footy fan - all over social media day in day out, hardly ever go the game, but first to sniff tickets out in the good times. 

You're a disgrace, as well as clueless.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Listen soft lad, you clearly havent got a clue what you're on about again. You have 3-4 posts on every page, and constantly show you havent got a clue.

Liverpool had a ballot based on previous attendance at a few of the games, whereas City offered 4 tickets to anyone. The people in the ballot would have had to be season ticket holders or had to have gone to a few previous games.

Whats your West ham affiliation - weren't you saying the other day that you would turn down some tickets for a QF, but would go to a SF or something?

You are the absolute worst footy fan - all over social media day in day out, hardly ever go the game, but first to sniff tickets out in the good times.

You're a disgrace, as well as clueless.
		
Click to expand...

Not at all

I purchased a QF ticket but when my friend couldn't make it I sold it (face value no profiteering)

He is available for the SF so we are getting tickets again.

Been a little thing call covid not sure if you have missed it? As to why I haven't been seeking out games

For reference Ive had a season ticket at upton park for 5 years before I gave it up to play more golf at weekends

3 of those seasons in the championship

Then gave it up and went to games ad-hoc ..

Was offered chance to be a season ticket holder this year with the same friend but I turned down as weekends are family time when not working.

Infact checking my email I last went 25th January 2020 to a FA cup tie vs west brom (awful game) so right before covid hit and like I said I haven't been to the stadium since. Or anywhere of that size.

But I forget .. unless you give up everything and focus on football your the 'worst' fan ever ..


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## Swango1980 (Apr 17, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Listen soft lad, you clearly havent got a clue what you're on about again. You have 3-4 posts on every page, and constantly show you havent got a clue.

Liverpool had a ballot based on previous attendance at a few of the games, whereas City offered 4 tickets to anyone. The people in the ballot would have had to be season ticket holders or had to have gone to a few previous games.

Whats your West ham affiliation - weren't you saying the other day that you would turn down some tickets for a QF, but would go to a SF or something?

You are the absolute worst footy fan - all over social media day in day out, hardly ever go the game, but first to sniff tickets out in the good times. 

You're a disgrace, as well as clueless.
		
Click to expand...

Soft lad
Haven't got a clue
You are the absolute worst footy fan
You're a disgrace
Clueless

Just a few highlights from your post to potentially make it a candidate for the most directly insulting post to another forumer?

Was it deserved or accurate? Not so sure, unless it really has become a thing now where some fans can be labelled in such a way simply because they don't go to many games.

Maybe some of the "best" type of fans should stop worrying about telling everyone else how bad a fan they are, and just focus on the actual football


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Soft lad
Haven't got a clue
You are the absolute worst footy fan
You're a disgrace
Clueless

Just a few highlights from your post to potentially make it a candidate for the most directly insulting post to another forumer?

Was it deserved or accurate? Not so sure, unless it really has become a thing now where some fans can be labelled in such a way simply because they don't go to many games.

Maybe some of the "best" type of fans should stop worrying about telling everyone else how bad a fan they are, and just focus on the actual football 

Click to expand...

I was bored and going through my emails

Since I gave up my season ticket (second time round, had it from 2002-2006) in 2013 when we had returned to the premier League .. so 3 of my 5 seasons were in the championship (real good time ticket hunter)

Most of the games I've been to are fa cup, League cup and Europa qualifiers . (First few rounds)

Few away games thrown in for good measure (arsenal, Ipswich, west brom, Burnley and Peterborough)

Remarkable all those big games

Now this year I have turned down a lot of offer of tickets for 2 simple reasons .. covid and my kids .. is it far on the wife to bugger off to west ham and leave the kids with her? Where as the biggest game in our history she told me I should go when will it happen again..  . I turned down Burnley at home today .. simply because it Easter, and My twins have covid.

But I'm an awful fan 🤣

Infact the week before covid my cousin reminded me (she is arsenal) that we borrowed a season ticket off my mum's cousin and went to arsenal west ham .. 7th march 2020.. just before the world changed forever ..

But then some people don't seem to remember this covid thing


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## Baldy Bouncer (Apr 17, 2022)

Where are all the Citeh fans?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2022)

Having just watched MotD my thoughts are with @Piece . Into injury time, Watford hit the post, miss the sitter of a rebound and Brentford go up the other end and score. When it's not going your way...............absolute sickener


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2022)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			Where are all the Citeh fans?

Click to expand...

Probably tired after all that singing through a minutes silence, infact it was the loudest they'd been all day.


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## DaveR (Apr 17, 2022)

Fingers crossed Burnley can hang on to their lead but not expecting them to 🤞


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## Piece (Apr 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Having just watched MotD my thoughts are with @Piece . Into injury time, Watford hit the post, miss the sitter of a rebound and Brentford go up the other end and score. When it's not going your way...............absolute sickener
		
Click to expand...

Sadly it was all too predictable as most fans called the Brentford winner before it actually happened. Gallows humour brought to life as we laughed just after they scored 🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2022)

Dull game at Newcastle but cracking goal to finish. My son was particularly happy. Following the last minute winner, bruno took off his shirt 🤷‍♂️, got booked for it, thus completing his bizarre accumulator of things to happen during the match. A combination of goals scored, corners and bookings. This is all very weird now.

Big relief, for Everton, that West Ham got a draw. We don't need any sort of bounce at Burnley.


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## fundy (Apr 17, 2022)

embarrassing Havertz


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			embarrassing Havertz
		
Click to expand...

Totally. Why though, just why? He was through with just one defender level with him. Why wouldn't you want to go on and trust yourself?


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## Foxholer (Apr 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			embarrassing Havertz
		
Click to expand...

Excellent to see! And pretty reasonable justice.
Simulation in Football is detestable!


Lord Tyrion said:



			Totally. Why though, just why? He was through with just one defender level with him. Why wouldn't you want to go on and trust yourself?
		
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I don't think he fancied his chances after his nudge went a bit far, so opted for the 'other' option.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 17, 2022)

Right am back 😁

First and foremost, congrats to Liverpool.Deserved from what Ave read. Two things from the game, One that bogged me off. One that had me scratching my head. City fans dissing the minutes silence and the Stefan bollock dropped Mane goal.
1, the non minutes silence from some City fans. Disgusted and they don’t represent me of the majority of City fans I know. 
2, I watched the Stefan clanger, stroke Mane genius and for me it was a nailed on goal. It was a good challenge/ Tackle. Yet at one point Mane had both feet off the ground For the challenge. Even if just for a split second. I did not think at one point Mane lost control of what he did. So why did the goal stand. 
season is getting interesting 😁👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Excellent to see! And pretty reasonable justice.
Simulation in Football is detestable!

I don't think he fancied his chances after his nudge went a bit far, so opted for the 'other' option.
		
Click to expand...

The thing is, ignoring the weak mentality of a player at that level who didn't fancy his chance there, var would rule out any penalty anyway? You can trick the ref, not this time, but the cameras would pick up the dive and over rule it ultimately. 

Anyway, he got caught out, well done the ref.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The thing is, ignoring the weak mentality of a player at that level who didn't fancy his chance there, var would rule out any penalty anyway? You can trick the ref, not this time, but the cameras would pick up the dive and over rule it ultimately.

Anyway, he got caught out, well done the ref.
		
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I haven't seen the incident but isn't it a fact that VAR are less willing to overrule the ref's decision so if you manage to fool the ref and get the decision in your favour then it's less likely to be overturned?


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I was bored and going through my emails

Since I gave up my season ticket (second time round, had it from 2002-2006) in 2013 when we had returned to the premier League .. so 3 of my 5 seasons were in the championship (real good time ticket hunter)

Most of the games I've been to are fa cup, League cup and Europa qualifiers . (First few rounds)

Few away games thrown in for good measure (arsenal, Ipswich, west brom, Burnley and Peterborough)

Remarkable all those big games

Now this year I have turned down a lot of offer of tickets for 2 simple reasons .. covid and my kids .. is it far on the wife to bugger off to west ham and leave the kids with her? Where as the biggest game in our history she told me I should go when will it happen again..  . I turned down Burnley at home today .. simply because it Easter, and My twins have covid.

But I'm an awful fan 🤣

Infact the week before covid my cousin reminded me (she is arsenal) that we borrowed a season ticket off my mum's cousin and went to arsenal west ham .. 7th march 2020.. just before the world changed forever ..

But then some people don't seem to remember this covid thing
		
Click to expand...

Maybe stay off posting 10 times a day on this thread and give the time back that way, become a member at West ham and go to some league games, just a few instead of getting credits for cup games only in case they get to a final?????

BTW, we've also had Covid in the north, you know, typical London mentality.

Chat footy all you want as a telly clapper, but you've shown that you havent got a clue about other clubs support, ticketing, fan base, travel etc.

Hope the kids get better, quick.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Soft lad
Haven't got a clue
You are the absolute worst footy fan
You're a disgrace
Clueless

Just a few highlights from your post to potentially make it a candidate for the most directly insulting post to another forumer?

Was it deserved or accurate? Not so sure, unless it really has become a thing now where some fans can be labelled in such a way simply because they don't go to many games.

Maybe some of the "best" type of fans should stop worrying about telling everyone else how bad a fan they are, and just focus on the actual football 

Click to expand...

I've got another list for you:-

10 posts a day about footy, mostly forgettable.
Full on telly clapper platinum membership status.
Full on glory hunter / glory club follower.....at least years ago.

Get a room.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 17, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I've got another list for you:-

10 posts a day about footy, mostly forgettable.
Full on telly clapper platinum membership status.
Full on glory hunter / glory club follower.....at least years ago.

Get a room.
		
Click to expand...

Get a room?

Apologies, with humour like that, you've highlighted your legendary status. 

We'll all bow down to you as the best type of fan, most of us are not worthy.

Although, maybe the best types of fans are the worst type of people, going by your example. 

P.S. it is good to see you have remembered his 10 forgettable posts per day to manage to keep count


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 17, 2022)

One of the better semi-finals I've seen.

I think Jurgen playing Naby lad and Thiago meant he went with midfielders who were happy to turn on the ball or play square and forward passes more which gave us a stability in midfield that we havent always shown against city. It helped us to beat the press better and get on the attack, then. Fernandinho lucky to stay on, again. Thankfully we hung on, as a great fightback from City although should have made it 4 at the death.  

I still can't see us doing all 4, but its going to be a roller coaster of a finish.

I've been there when City fans have impeccably kept a minutes silence for Hillsborough before, but like some Chelsea fans, it seems to be that when rivalries get to the sharper end, a sizeable minority just can't show respect. I think that minutes applause are the way forward, as doesnt give oxygen to the dickheads then.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2022)

Goo


Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe stay off posting 10 times a day on this thread and give the time back that way, become a member at West ham and go to some league games, just a few instead of getting credits for cup games only in case they get to a final?????

BTW, we've also had Covid in the north, you know, typical London mentality.

Chat footy all you want as a telly clapper, but you've shown that you havent got a clue about other clubs support, ticketing, fan base, travel etc.

Hope the kids get better, quick. 

Click to expand...

Yes but you fail to realise that people are avoiding going places because of covid still

My last game (league aswell) 7th march 2020 just before covid 

I haven't been to a game since. Part due to family part due to not comfortable with going often to crowds of that size

Surely you can understand that no?


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## Foxholer (Apr 17, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			One of the better semi-finals I've seen.

I think Jurgen playing Naby lad and Thiago meant he went with midfielders who were happy to turn on the ball or play square and forward passes more which gave us a stability in midfield that we havent always shown against city. It helped us to beat the press better and get on the attack, then. Fernandinho lucky to stay on, again. Thankfully we hung on, as a great fightback from City although should have made it 4 at the death. 

I still can't see us doing all 4, but its going to be a roller coaster of a finish.

I've been there when City fans have impeccably kept a minutes silence for Hillsborough before, but like some Chelsea fans, it seems to be that when rivalries get to the sharper end, a sizeable minority just can't show respect. I think that minutes applause are the way forward, as doesnt give oxygen to the dickheads then.
		
Click to expand...

As a neutral, the City v L'pool was the better for me, though this was pretty good too. PL seems to have significantly more quality than a few years ago, which may be why the performances in Europe.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I was bored and going through my emails

Since I gave up my season ticket (second time round, had it from 2002-2006) in 2013 when we had returned to the premier League .. so 3 of my 5 seasons were in the championship (real good time ticket hunter)

Most of the games I've been to are fa cup, League cup and Europa qualifiers . (First few rounds)

Few away games thrown in for good measure (arsenal, Ipswich, west brom, Burnley and Peterborough)

Remarkable all those big games

Now this year I have turned down a lot of offer of tickets for 2 simple reasons .. covid and my kids .. is it far on the wife to bugger off to west ham and leave the kids with her? Where as the biggest game in our history she told me I should go when will it happen again..  . I turned down Burnley at home today .. simply because it Easter, and My twins have covid.

But I'm an awful fan 🤣

Infact the week before covid my cousin reminded me (she is arsenal) that we borrowed a season ticket off my mum's cousin and went to arsenal west ham .. 7th march 2020.. just before the world changed forever ..

But then some people don't seem to remember this covid thing
		
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. Fulham fan and got told I'm a  glory hunter on the back of a 13 year stretch in the PL and a Europa League final. No-one mentions losing away to Mansfield and standing on an open terrace in a snow storm. People remember going to OT or Anfield. Now I live an hour (on a good day) away a season ticket isn't feasible but I'll still go to a few games a year. These tend to be FA cup or against smaller sides where it is easier to get a ticket


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I know what you mean. Fulham fan and got told I'm a  glory hunter on the back of a 13 year stretch in the PL and a Europa League final. No-one mentions losing away to Mansfield and standing on an open terrace in a snow storm. People remember going to OT or Anfield. Now I live an hour (on a good day) away a season ticket isn't feasible but I'll still go to a few games a year. These tend to be FA cup or against smaller sides where it is easier to get a ticket
		
Click to expand...

I could get a season ticket but I work 2 out of 7 weekends so weekends I am free are normally spent with the family. (Give it whilst we so short staffed ATM Im working most weekends but only 1 day a weekend so still get a day with family but no time for going the game)

When I am able to get more weekends I'm more likely to up my membership of the golf course to 7 days than I am to get a season ticket again

Been there done that , enjoyed it but out grown it personally


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## fundy (Apr 17, 2022)

For everyone who moans about how bad VAR is in the premier league, its as bad if not worse elsewhere based on the penalty PSG have just been given lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I could get a season ticket but I work 2 out of 7 weekends so weekends I am free are normally spent with the family. (Give it whilst we so short staffed ATM Im working most weekends but only 1 day a weekend so still get a day with family but no time for going the game)

When I am able to get more weekends I'm more likely to up my membership of the golf course to 7 days than I am to get a season ticket again

Been there done that , enjoyed it but out grown it personally
		
Click to expand...

Balanciing act isn't it. We're short staffed so I have the potential to be called in at short notice and while I am lucky to have a fantastic wife who is more than happy for me to play as and when and no kids to worry about I wouldn't want to push it by playing on a Saturday and then go straight up to Craven Cottage and not get home until mid-evening, I would rather golf and have a few beers with my pals at the club and then go home and spend time with HID. I do miss the footie and my best friend still goes every week home and away (he's had a season ticket for 42 years) and I miss seeing him (we only meet a few times a year for a game of golf or if I get to go to the odd game)


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Balanciing act isn't it. We're short staffed so I have the potential to be called in at short notice and while I am lucky to have a fantastic wife who is more than happy for me to play as and when and no kids to worry about I wouldn't want to push it by playing on a Saturday and then go straight up to Craven Cottage and not get home until mid-evening, I would rather golf and have a few beers with my pals at the club and then go home and spend time with HID. I do miss the footie and my best friend still goes every week home and away (he's had a season ticket for 42 years) and I miss seeing him (we only meet a few times a year for a game of golf or if I get to go to the odd game)
		
Click to expand...

To be fair I'd love to work even more, play even more golf and attend more games 

Apparently that wouldnt go down well with the wife lol.. maybe if I was single ..


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			To be fair I'd love to work even more, play even more golf and attend more games

Apparently that wouldnt go down well with the wife lol.. maybe if I was single ..
		
Click to expand...

And living at home with the parents. That was the best of all worlds. Cheap rent, decent grub and the washing and ironing done and I was a free agent to do as I please. You could add in going to gigs as well as the footie, gold and everything else


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And living at home with the parents. That was the best of all worlds. Cheap rent, decent grub and the washing and ironing done and I was a free agent to do as I please. You could add in going to gigs as well as the footie, gold and everything else
		
Click to expand...

The wife and I spoke about what the hell we did with our time before the kids. I told her that the other week when they all went away when I was on nights was a taste of the single life.

Batch cooked a load of food and painted 4 rooms .. (had planned to go the Lyon game but last min change of plan, sold the ticket and worked extra night shift) 

Tbh it was pretty boring 😂


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Wonder if any of those City fans struggled with paying for an away trip to Madrid & an FA Cup semi final in the same week?
		
Click to expand...

I missed this last night, you do have a valid point there.

It's extremely expensive to follow a team home, away and  across europe too. 

City rarely sell out their home games most weeks so it's not a surprise they struggled with a semi final on a bank holiday weekend with travel restrictions. 

With that in mind what i find amussing is with such a small worldwide fan base, how can Man City be ranked 1st in the world money league.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I know what you mean. *Fulham fan and got told I'm a  glory hunter on the back of a 13 year stretch in the PL and a Europa League final. *No-one mentions losing away to Mansfield and standing on an open terrace in a snow storm. People remember going to OT or Anfield. Now I live an hour (on a good day) away a season ticket isn't feasible but I'll still go to a few games a year. These tend to be FA cup or against smaller sides where it is easier to get a ticket
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣Who called you that?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I haven't seen the incident but isn't it a fact that VAR are less willing to overrule the ref's decision so if you manage to fool the ref and get the decision in your favour then it's less likely to be overturned?
		
Click to expand...

This was in the penalty area so if the ref had bought it then it would have been a penalty. Any replay would have shown it as a clear and obvious error and there is no way it could not have been overturned. Outside of the area it probably would stand but I can't believe they could have allowed it inside. 

Honestly you'd have to see a replay. The gap between Havertz and the defender was really very clear. Again, well done to the ref for spotting it in the heat of the moment.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Goo


Yes but you fail to realise that people are avoiding going places because of covid still

My last game (league aswell) 7th march 2020 just before covid

I haven't been to a game since. Part due to family part due to not comfortable with going often to crowds of that size

Surely you can understand that no?
		
Click to expand...

Pop quiz, hotshot.

If West ham would have gotten to the FA cup final last year and a ticket would have came your way, would you have gone?

I think we both know the answer to that.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			embarrassing Havertz
		
Click to expand...

Indeed it was; was it more or less embarrassing than Andersen going down in the second half holding his head when not touched and McArthur trying to get Anthony Taylor to send Havertz off for a second yellow?

Slag Havertz off by all means, he deserves it for that, but let's be even-handed and call out the Palace players doing the same thing; cheating.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 17, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Pop quiz, hotshot.

If West ham would have gotten to the FA cup final last year and a ticket would have came your way, would you have gone?

I think we both know the answer to that.
		
Click to expand...

Last year? Not a chance. This year probably

Real question is does it matter? No

Stop your willy measuring contest your starting to look like one.


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## Swingalot (Apr 17, 2022)

Home after a long day. Yet again, we brought some colour and noise to Wembley. A tight game against a quality team and we just did not get many breaks, but proud of the team, manager and club. Would have been great to see Gallagher on the pitch, but don't blame Chelsea at all for not letting him play. Just hope we can convince the kid to stay another season or even better sign for someone who will play him every week....

As a lot of things with Palace..its the hope that kills you.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 17, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Home after a long day. Yet again, we brought some colour and noise to Wembley. A tight game against a quality team and we just did not get many breaks, but proud of the team, manager and club. Would have been great to see Gallagher on the pitch,* but don't blame Chelsea at all for not letting him play.* Just hope we can convince the kid to stay another season or even better sign for someone who will play him every week....

As a lot of things with Palace..its the hope that kills you.
		
Click to expand...

Did we?  Here's the relevant extract from the competition rules;

(j) Temporary (loan) Transfers

(i)  A player on a temporary (loan) transfer is ineligible to compete in the Challenge Cup Competition unless permission to do so is given by the lending Club in writing and a copy is received by The Association by 12 noon on the Friday prior to the date fixed for playing the Round. Any permissions must clearly state that the player has approval to play in The FA Challenge Cup Competition. A registered Trainee or a player who is registered on a Scholarship for work experience may play for another Club, subject to written permission being given by the Club that he is registered to and provided that such permission is received by The Association by 12 noon on the Friday prior to the date fixed for playing the Round. *The Association will not give permission for players on loan or work experience to play against the lending Club.*
(ii)  A player recalled, at any time prior to the date of the Round, to his original Club from temporary (loan) transfer, in accordance with the terms of the loan agreement, may represent his original Club. Such player may only play in postponed and replayed matches if he had been recalled in time for the first match in accordance with sub- paragraph (i) above and (iii) below as applicable.
(iii)  A player on temporary (loan) transfer is eligible to compete if transferred by the lending Club to the loaning Club after the date and time for player qualification for a round but must have been eligible to play in the original tie.
(iv)  Players on season “long term loan agreements”, are not considered “loan” players for the purposes of the Rule, and are therefore eligible to play in the Competition.
So did Chelsea block Gallagher playing or did the FA?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 17, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Pop quiz, hotshot.

If West ham would have gotten to the FA cup final last year and a ticket would have came your way, would you have gone?

I think we both know the answer to that.
		
Click to expand...

Ok you go to games,we get it 🙄
No need for the aggressive posts 👍🏻👍🏻


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Last year? Not a chance. This year probably

Real question is does it matter? No

Stop your willy measuring contest your starting to look like one.
		
Click to expand...

Listen lad, if it was a "going the match" contest it would be over in the 1st round, I've probably been to more away matches in my life than you have seen west ham goals.


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## 4LEX (Apr 18, 2022)

How good were Liverpool in the first half.....Pep with a bizarre move to rest Ederson and it cost him. Liverpool v Chelsea final will be a cracker.

Man Utd's latest 'saviour' of a manager gets dusted by a woeful PSV side in the Dutch Cup Final and only 4 points ahead in the title race....


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## Swango1980 (Apr 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Listen lad, if it was a "going the match" contest it would be over in the 1st round, I've probably been to more away matches in my life than you have seen west ham goals.
		
Click to expand...

Are you serious? Nobody cares. It means nothing in the context of posting in this forum. You will not be given a trophy, or some sort of special recognition.

You are sounding like a child in the playground, you're not really coming across well in this discussion, as much as you think you might be.


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## adam6177 (Apr 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			You are sounding like a child in the playground, you're not really coming across well in this discussion, as much as you think you might be.
		
Click to expand...

I'll give you a clue.... None of you in this petty point scoring argument are coming across well. It's embarrassing.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Listen lad, if it was a "going the match" contest it would be over in the 1st round, I've probably been to more away matches in my life than you have seen west ham goals.
		
Click to expand...

Erm well done? Would you like a gold star or something?


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## Swingalot (Apr 18, 2022)

So did Chelsea block Gallagher playing or did the FA?[/QUOTE]

Chelsea did nothing wrong BIM and would support Palace 100% if we were in the same situation. The original loan agreement between the clubs stated he could not play, but as those rules you quote state the FA will let a player play against his own club if they receive written agreement, which is exactly what we asked for from Chelsea. You unsurprisingly refused that request.


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 18, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I'll give you a clue.... None of you in this petty point scoring argument are coming across well. It's embarrassing.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should have a poll.It has become  worse than The Brexit thread.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2022)

Back to actual football matters, another big day in the Championship. Great to see some of the names in the play off spots, the likes of Luton and Forest, who haven't been in the top league for years. Also some good names just below who could also sneak in.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back to actual football matters, another big day in the Championship. Great to see some of the names in the play off spots, the likes of Luton and Forest, who haven't been in the top league for years. Also some good names just below who could also sneak in.
		
Click to expand...

Would love to see Luton come up, would it be the first club to go out of the football league then to top flight?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Would love to see Luton come up, would it be the first club to go out of the football league then to top flight?
		
Click to expand...

That's a good pub quiz question. I don't know but it sounds about right. It's good to see different teams coming up rather than the same yo yo sides all of the time. Brentford have been great this year, as were Huddersfield and Sheffield United previously.


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Indeed it was; was it more or less embarrassing than Andersen going down in the second half holding his head when not touched and McArthur trying to get Anthony Taylor to send Havertz off for a second yellow?

Slag Havertz off by all means, he deserves it for that, but let's be even-handed and call out the Palace players doing the same thing; cheating. 

Click to expand...


was that bored by half time i saw very little of the 2nd half, apologies for only calling out one of them, its not as if hes the first ive called out on here tho (and that includes Arsenal players, yes Laca im looking at you)


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## Stuart_C (Apr 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			was that bored by half time i saw very little of the 2nd half, apologies for only calling out one of them, its not as if hes the first ive called out on here tho (and that includes Arsenal players, yes Laca im looking at you)
		
Click to expand...

You never called Jesus out on saturday neither 🤭🤭

Imagine calling out footballers diving/clutching face, knee,ankle/cheating every time it happened, you'd need a new keyboard every 3 months.


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## Foxholer (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Indeed it was; was it more or less embarrassing than Andersen going down in the second half holding his head when not touched and McArthur trying to get Anthony Taylor to send Havertz off for a second yellow?

Slag Havertz off by all means, he deserves it for that, but let's be even-handed and call out the Palace players doing the same thing; cheating. 

Click to expand...

I seem to remember seeing a skit from one of the big comedy teams about football teams practicing such cheating. I'd be happy to see VAR involved and a few players sent off for it. That would get the message across. Realistically, I can't see it happening - but Yellow cards just don't seem to have enough effect. It could, however end up with some games being a bit farcical - something Refs are likely very reluctant to want.


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## Foxholer (Apr 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			...
Imagine calling out footballers diving/clutching face, knee,ankle/cheating every time it happened, you'd need a new keyboard every 3 months.
		
Click to expand...

That simply demonstrates the magnitude of the problem!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 18, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I seem to remember seeing a skit from one of the big comedy teams about football teams practicing such cheating. I'd be happy to see VAR involved and a few players sent off for it. That would get the message across. Realistically, I can't see it happening - but Yellow cards just don't seem to have enough effect. It could, however end up with some games being a bit farcical - something Refs are likely very reluctant to want.
		
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Refs and VAR cant even get pens or red cards for bad tackles right. Theres no chance of them sorting the theatrics out.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 18, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			That simply demonstrates the magnitude of the problem!
		
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Its a world football issue. It needs to be led from FIFA and UEFA.

It's all well and good the PL trying to fight it, we wont get rid of it single handedly.


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## Foxholer (Apr 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Refs and VAR cant even get pens or red cards for bad tackles right. Theres no chance of them sorting the theatrics out.
		
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As a (pretty much) neutral, I'd dispute your first sentence, though they certainly may not get 'every' one right - to fans on both sides agreement. But the sort of cheating the Ref got spot on yesterday (so no need for VAR) is  *blot* on the game imo. Unfortuntely, in reality, it actually seems to be an *acceptable* part of it!


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## Foxholer (Apr 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Its a world football issue. It needs to be led from FIFA and UEFA.

It's all well and good the PL trying to fight it, we wont get rid of it single handedly.
		
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Totally agree!
And, unfortunately, I doubt it will ever happen! But it certainly taints my enjoyment of otherwise excellent matches - even to the extent of being the first incident - ahead of any of the rather good goals - that springs to mind about the game!


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			was that bored by half time i saw very little of the 2nd half, apologies for only calling out one of them, its not as if hes the first ive called out on here tho (and that includes Arsenal players, yes Laca im looking at you)
		
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Fair dos, he's not the first you've called, and I've called out my own when I can be bothered with this thread.  It just grinds my gears when this only goes one way, and this was as bad a case of simulation as Havertz' one was, but Taylor did nothing, not that I'm surprised.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2022)

Thoughts with Ronaldo at this time 😥


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## ger147 (Apr 18, 2022)

Tragic...

https://www.skysports.com/football/...nces-one-of-his-newborn-twins-has-passed-away


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2022)

Love him or hate him, you have to feel for his tragic loss.
That should happen to no-one.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			Love him or hate him, you have to feel for his tragic loss.
That should happen to no-one.
		
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Totally agree. So sad


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## chrisd (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Indeed it was; was it more or less embarrassing than Andersen going down in the second half holding his head when not touched and McArthur trying to get Anthony Taylor to send Havertz off for a second yellow?

Slag Havertz off by all means, he deserves it for that, but let's be even-handed and call out the Palace players doing the same thing; cheating. 

Click to expand...

I was embarrassed by Anderson too, he clearly was not hit on the head. To be honest I despair of the diving, sitting down as if injured to slow play etc etc. I thought Havertz may have just gone too far. Anyway, Chelsea, Man City and LiVARpool are the top three teams and we are around 11th so it was unlikely we'd win but I did think we shaded the first half.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 18, 2022)

Terrible news, my stomach turned reading that.


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2022)

Horrible horrible news


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## pauljames87 (Apr 18, 2022)

Heart breaking.

Just can't imagine what they must be going through.

Their poor family.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Did we?  Here's the relevant extract from the competition rules;

(j) Temporary (loan) Transfers

(i)  A player on a temporary (loan) transfer is ineligible to compete in the Challenge Cup Competition unless permission to do so is given by the lending Club in writing and a copy is received by The Association by 12 noon on the Friday prior to the date fixed for playing the Round. Any permissions must clearly state that the player has approval to play in The FA Challenge Cup Competition. A registered Trainee or a player who is registered on a Scholarship for work experience may play for another Club, subject to written permission being given by the Club that he is registered to and provided that such permission is received by The Association by 12 noon on the Friday prior to the date fixed for playing the Round. *The Association will not give permission for players on loan or work experience to play against the lending Club.*
(ii)  A player recalled, at any time prior to the date of the Round, to his original Club from temporary (loan) transfer, in accordance with the terms of the loan agreement, may represent his original Club. Such player may only play in postponed and replayed matches if he had been recalled in time for the first match in accordance with sub- paragraph (i) above and (iii) below as applicable.
(iii)  A player on temporary (loan) transfer is eligible to compete if transferred by the lending Club to the loaning Club after the date and time for player qualification for a round but must have been eligible to play in the original tie.
(iv)  Players on season “long term loan agreements”, are not considered “loan” players for the purposes of the Rule, and are therefore eligible to play in the Competition.
So did Chelsea block Gallagher playing or did the FA?
		
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Swingalot said:



			Chelsea did nothing wrong BIM and would support Palace 100% if we were in the same situation. The original loan agreement between the clubs stated he could not play, *but as those rules you quote state the FA will let a player play against his own club if they receive written agreement*, which is exactly what we asked for from Chelsea. You unsurprisingly refused that request.
		
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Can you show me where please, because I'm not seeing it?  I can't see anything in what I've quoted that can overrule the bolded section.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You never called Jesus out on saturday neither 🤭🤭

Imagine calling out footballers diving/clutching face, knee,ankle/cheating every time it happened, you'd need a new keyboard every 3 months.
		
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Well if you're not prepared to do it every time Stu then either don't do it at all or expect to get picked up for bias


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## Tashyboy (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can you show me where please, because I'm not seeing it?  I can't see anything in what I've quoted that can overrule the bolded section.
		
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61118626

Don’t  know if this adds any  clarity to the conversation


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well if you're not prepared to do it every time Stu then either don't do it at all or expect to get picked up for bias 

Click to expand...

seriously BIM, bias? 

maybe if more fans called out their own cheats it wouldnt be such an issue......


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			seriously BIM, bias?

maybe if more fans called out their own cheats it wouldnt be such an issue......
		
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Well what else do you all it when certain players/teams are picked up for it and others not? 

That wasn't intended as a pop against you, you explained why one and not the other, but that doesn't mean it's any less irritating when others do it, including the press & TV.

And yeah, if more people called out their own it would be less of an issue, but there's more chance of UEFA, FIFA or the FA doing something about it than the number of people on here calling out their own growing.


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## fundy (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well what else do you all it when certain players/teams are picked up for it and others not? 

That wasn't intended as a pop against you, you explained why one and not the other, but that doesn't mean it's any less irritating when others do it, including the press & TV.

And yeah, if more people called out their own it would be less of an issue, but there's more chance of UEFA, FIFA or the FA doing something about it than the number of people on here calling out their own growing.
		
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each to their own, ill keep calling out arsenal players when they cheat

what irritates me is that fans constantly want to find reasons to excuse or defend their own players because "others are doing it", and commentators want to praise them for "earning" a free kick or pelanty, that just guarantees the status quo remains and we continue to get games ruined by the constant attempts to cheat and then at the same time be utterly aghast when the other sides players do the same


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			each to their own, ill keep calling out arsenal players when they cheat

what irritates me is that fans constantly want to find reasons to excuse or defend their own players because "others are doing it", and commentators want to praise them for "earning" a free kick or pelanty, that just guarantees the status quo remains and we continue to get games ruined by the constant attempts to cheat and then at the same time be utterly aghast when the other sides players do the same
		
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As will I call out ours.

I wasn't finding a reason to defend Havertz, he deserves every bit of criticism he gets for what he did, and I agree with your irritation.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well if you're not prepared to do it every time Stu then either don't do it at all or expect to get picked up for bias 

Click to expand...

My previous has earned me enough not to be accused of bias. Calling it out everytime proves nothing.


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## yandabrown (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can you show me where please, because I'm not seeing it?  I can't see anything in what I've quoted that can overrule the bolded section.
		
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I read it as the first sentence of (j) 1 (i) says that the club can make the agreement, the last sentence simply says that the FA will not do it (i.e. it has to be the club and the FA don't want to get involved in the discussion other than being told about the agreement if it is made).


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## Swango1980 (Apr 18, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			I read it as the first sentence of (j) 1 (i) says that the club can make the agreement, the last sentence simply says that the FA will not do it (i.e. it has to be the club and the FA don't want to get involved in the discussion other than being told about the agreement if it is made).
		
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The first sentence is simply about eligibility for playing in the Cup generally, so long as lender club gives permission. The highlighted bit after is specifically related to the player not being able to play against the lender club.


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## Swingalot (Apr 18, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			I read it as the first sentence of (j) 1 (i) says that the club can make the agreement, the last sentence simply says that the FA will not do it (i.e. it has to be the club and the FA don't want to get involved in the discussion other than being told about the agreement if it is made).
		
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Yep, that's how I read it too, but happy to be corrected


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## Stuart_C (Apr 18, 2022)

Didn’t Tuchel say in an interview that he’d bumped into Gallagher in a restaurant  and explained his reasons as to why the club wouldn’t give Palace permission for him to play against Chelsea?

Whilst on that subject I think it’s unfair generally as you have a really good player, play against your 2or3 main rivals to help take points off them but they can’t play against the club they’re owned by.

For example, Gallagher had an influence in taking points off City a few weeks ago.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Didn’t Tuchel say in an interview that he’d bumped into Gallagher in a restaurant  and explained his reasons as to why the club wouldn’t give Palace permission for him to play against Chelsea?

Whilst on that subject I think it’s unfair generally as you have a really good player, play against your 2or3 main rivals to help take points off them but they can’t play against the club they’re owned by.

For example, Gallagher had an influence in taking points off City a few weeks ago.
		
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I do not believe there is an option, as both the Premier League and FA Cup rules strictly forbid it.

I believe Arsene Wenger was one person vocal against the rule.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I do not believe there is an option, as both the Premier League and FA Cup rules strictly forbid it.

I believe Arsene Wenger was one person vocal against the rule.
		
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I believe there is an option in the League Cup that Chelsea have used before to allow Tomori and Mount play for Derby against us. Didn’t end well for them as Tomori put through his own net, which is surely part of the reason why it is in place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45961339


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			My previous has earned me enough not to be accused of bias. *Calling it out everytime proves nothing*.
		
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So what does calling it out some of the time prove then?


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Are you serious? Nobody cares. It means nothing in the context of posting in this forum. You will not be given a trophy, or some sort of special recognition.

You are sounding like a child in the playground, you're not really coming across well in this discussion, as much as you think you might be.
		
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Do you honestly think I care what you or him think of me?

If I was that bothered I would have posted all of the finals, semis, european games, number of grounds I've been to etc etc etc......

The context is that someone posts every bloody day in numerous posts, but hasnt really got a clue what he is on about when it comes to supporting a team, travelling, ticket allocations, fan base yet he's spouting rubbish about.

I know you have your sympathies for him as you patently made your fellings known about how fans shouldnt be consulted or taken into any consideration when it comes to kick off times, fixtures etc. Again, someone who hasnt a clue about what is involved, the expense, the time, the holidays used, the hotels, trains, travel. I'm sorry he isnt the worst type of fan, you are.

Glory hunting telly clapping happens but for you to have so much disdain for actual match goers beggars belief.

Stick to FIFA.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 18, 2022)

Horrible, horrible news about Ronaldo, his girlfriend and family.


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## Foxholer (Apr 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I do not believe there is an option, as both the Premier League and FA Cup rules strictly forbid it.

I believe Arsene Wenger was one person vocal against the rule.
		
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Not certain about PL, but FA Cup DOES allow it - with loaning clubs permission. Rule 15j


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## Foxholer (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Did we?  Here's the relevant extract from the competition rules;

(j) Temporary (loan) Transfers

(i)  A player on a temporary (loan) transfer is ineligible to compete in the Challenge Cup Competition unless permission to do so is given by the lending Club in writing and a copy is received by The Association by 12 noon on the Friday prior to the date fixed for playing the Round. Any permissions must clearly state that the player has approval to play in The FA Challenge Cup Competition. A registered Trainee or a player who is registered on a Scholarship for work experience may play for another Club, subject to written permission being given by the Club that he is registered to and provided that such permission is received by The Association by 12 noon on the Friday prior to the date fixed for playing the Round. *The Association will not give permission for players on loan or work experience to play against the lending Club.*
(ii)  A player recalled, at any time prior to the date of the Round, to his original Club from temporary (loan) transfer, in accordance with the terms of the loan agreement, may represent his original Club. Such player may only play in postponed and replayed matches if he had been recalled in time for the first match in accordance with sub- paragraph (i) above and (iii) below as applicable.
(iii)  A player on temporary (loan) transfer is eligible to compete if transferred by the lending Club to the loaning Club after the date and time for player qualification for a round but must have been eligible to play in the original tie.
(iv)  Players on season “long term loan agreements”, are not considered “loan” players for the purposes of the Rule, and are therefore eligible to play in the Competition.
So did Chelsea block Gallagher playing or did the FA?
		
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Thats the area I refered to above.
The bit you emboldened simply states that it's not up to the FA to give permission.
So either Chelsea said 'No' or Palace didn't ask.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			I read it as the first sentence of (j) 1 (i) says that the club can make the agreement, the last sentence simply says that the FA will not do it (i.e. it has to be the club and the FA don't want to get involved in the discussion other than being told about the agreement if it is made).
		
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I'm reading it as part (j) 1 (i) states that for short term loans, the parent club has to give permission before each round for the player to be used; the reason as I understand it is that the player could return to the parent club but would be ineligible to play in the competition because they had played for the loan club, and cannot play for 2 clubs in the competition. Para (j) 4 (iv) removes the needful that permission to be given before each round by the parent club in the case of season long loans as there is no intention at the time of the loan to recall the player, but doesn't countermand the absolute statement that the FA will not allow loan players to play against the parent club; if it did, why would Palace have to ask to use Gallagher?   The fact that this statement comes after the explanation of the need for the clubs to give permission makes it clear to me that the option never existed.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 18, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Not certain about PL, but FA Cup DOES allow it - with loaning clubs permission. Rule 15j
		
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I found the attached.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			Love him or hate him, you have to feel for his tragic loss.
That should happen to no-one.
		
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Couldn't agree more.  Even more unfair (if that is possible) in light of at least one generous contribution made by him to provide medical help to a sick child.  The irony in that is just too cruel

https://www.foxsports.com.au/footba...y/news-story/fe56629861c0b80d27707e376dd63f75

Erik Ortiz Cruz suffers from cortical dysplasia — a brain abnormality that can cause up to 30 seizures each day — and requires an operation to remove part of his brain, which costs in the region of $110,000, with the added cost of further follow-up tests.

Spanish daily _AS _reports that Erik’s family, desperate for help, reached out to Ronaldo asking if he could donate some signed jerseys or boots to auction off.

*MORE PAPER TALK FUN*
​Cristiano Ronaldo will pay the surgery of Erik Ortiz Cruz (10 months old), who has a brain disorder. #respect (as) pic.twitter.com/UyUjVtFzKC
— SocialRMadrid (@SocialRMadrid) March 11, 2014​

But the world player of the year went even further, agreeing to pay for all the treatments and visited the young _Madridista _in hospital.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			So what does calling it out some of the time prove then?
		
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What does calling it out all of the time prove?

It’s not a personal attack on any particular club to call it as and when I see fit.

If you can’t differentiate between my posts then that’s your problem.

I’ve been pretty clear and consistent when it comes to diving and cheating, called out many of our players on here for doing so as I’m concious of not being biased.

Another reason I don’t pull every single one up is there’s too many blurts on here who’ll respond with “ yeah remember when Fowler dived at Highbury“  who just look to point score.


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## Foxholer (Apr 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I found the attached.
		
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That appears to be the same as the doc BIM and I posted readably. See post 26082 (my post above).
The gist being that it's up to the clubs, not up to the FA!


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## Foxholer (Apr 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'm reading it as part (j) 1 (i) states that for short term loans, the parent club has to give permission before each round for the player to be used; the reason as I understand it is that the player could return to the parent club but would be ineligible to play in the competition because they had played for the loan club, and cannot play for 2 clubs in the competition. Para (j) 4 (iv) removes the needful that permission to be given before each round by the parent club in the case of season long loans as there is no intention at the time of the loan to recall the player, but doesn't countermand the absolute statement that the FA will not allow loan players to play against the parent club; if it did, why would Palace have to ask to use Gallagher?   *The fact that this statement comes after the explanation of the need for the clubs to give permission makes it clear to me that the option never existed.*

Click to expand...

On the contrary...If 'the option never existed', there wouldn't have needed to all the stuff above that sentence!
Ths 'can't play for 2 clubs' is simply one of the reasons why a club wouldn't give permission'.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 19, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			That appears to be the same as the doc BIM and I posted readably. See post 26082 (my post above).
The gist being that it's up to the clubs, not up to the FA!
		
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That is incorrect. Parts i) to iii) are about playing the FA Cup in general. There is absolutely nothing mentioned in those parts about playing against the parent club.

Part iv) then states that they cannot play against the parent club. Permission will not be given. It doesn't matter what the parent club do. 

You seem to be reading the rule the wrong way round. As if part iv) is the subject of all parts of the rule (I.e players playing against the parent club), and i) to iii) the caveats. If this were the case, it would have read something like "a player cannot play against their parent club, unless the parent club give permission..."


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## Swango1980 (Apr 19, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			That appears to be the same as the doc BIM and I posted readably. See post 26082 (my post above).
The gist being that it's up to the clubs, not up to the FA!
		
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Another explanation specifically about Gallagher is attached:


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Another explanation specifically about Gallagher is attached:
		
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That 2nd 'quote' would be more compelling if it refered to actual regs (it's just another unverified opinion as it stands). While the doc BIM and I are quoting is a 2019/20 one, it's still on the FA's site as published Rules, so it should still be current.
On re-reading BIM's post 26035, I agree that, if it's 'the association giving permission for a loan player to play', then it specifically states that they won't give permission for him to play against the loaning club (so don't bother applying).
Whatever the reason, he didn't play and Palace are now out. So, for me, that ends my 'interest'!


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## davemc1 (Apr 19, 2022)

Sep van den Berg played for Preston against Liverpool in the Cup this year whilst on loan from us.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 19, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			Sep van den Berg played for Preston against Liverpool in the Cup this year whilst on loan from us.
		
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That was in the EFL Cup, not the FA Cup. Different rules.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



*Didn’t Tuchel say in an interview that he’d bumped into Gallagher in a restaurant  and explained his reasons as to why the club wouldn’t give Palace permission for him to play against Chelsea?*

Whilst on that subject I think it’s unfair generally as you have a really good player, play against your 2or3 main rivals to help take points off them but they can’t play against the club they’re owned by.

For example, Gallagher had an influence in taking points off City a few weeks ago.
		
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Yup he did, it was in the link I posted at 9.40pm


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Yup he did, it was in the link I posted at 9.40pm
		
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Presumably the answer was that he was having a blinding season and Chelsea didn't want him helping to knock them out. As his parent company, that seems perfectly fair.

Does it need to be more complicated than that?


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## Swango1980 (Apr 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Presumably the answer was that he was having a blinding season and Chelsea didn't want him helping to knock them out. As his parent company, that seems perfectly fair.

Does it need to be more complicated than that?
		
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Nope, it doesn't even need to be that complicated. The much simpler explanation was that he was simply not permitted to play. Even if representatives of Chelsea football club wrote lovely long letters begging for Gallagher to play, and delivered them by hand to the FA.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Yup he did, it was in the link I posted at 9.40pm
		
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Apologies Tashy i never seen it, i had to put you on ignore after seeing THAT photo🤮🤮


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## pauljames87 (Apr 19, 2022)

Diop confirmed as injured for several weeks 

Semi final gets tougher 

First we lost ogbonna for most of season (imo our best defender)
Then zouma (monster on and off the pitch it seems)
Now diop our back up is out 

Dawson can't do it alone 

Rice can play there but we would miss him in midfield 

Johnson from the full back to CB?

Soucek to CB?

Or one of the youth team

Going to be interesting


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## pendodave (Apr 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Rice can play there but we would miss him in midfield
		
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Not exactly on topic, but I reckon a team of 11 Rices beats any other single player team in the prem...


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## pauljames87 (Apr 19, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Not exactly on topic, but I reckon a team of 11 Rices beats any other single player team in the prem...
		
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Ooo I dunno, he is pretty crap at shooting it seems ...... Well not as good as he should be but then Antonio is awful at shooting at times so you could be right!


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Diop confirmed as injured for several weeks

Semi final gets tougher

First we lost ogbonna for most of season (imo our best defender)
Then zouma (monster on and off the pitch it seems)
Now diop our back up is out

Dawson can't do it alone

Rice can play there but we would miss him in midfield

Johnson from the full back to CB?

Soucek to CB?

Or one of the youth team

Going to be interesting
		
Click to expand...

Been something of an Achilles Heel for a while. No 'easy' games (well, perhaps 1?) in the next month either!
Change the formation to 3 at the back? Rice is too important where he is imo.
I may be being a bit negative, but I can imagine nil points and a Europe disappointment being the result! I hope I'm wrong!


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Not feeling good about tonight's game.
Our engine room contains Pogba and Matic, the laziest player in the league alongside the slowest.
Add to that the fact that we have no recognised No.9 available ................ what could possibly go wrong?
I'm going 4-0.


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2022)

certainly one odd looking united side, phil jones back, 2 right backs with telles on the bench and elanga and rashford up top

almost looks as bad as arsenals XI at the weekend


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Oh, I forgot to mention, we also have the legend that is Phil Jones making his 4th start in 3 years!
What odds him getting a 92nd minute winner ........................... with the ball coming off his face!


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## Dando (Apr 19, 2022)




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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

Stand by for a right royal battering……


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Dishes washed and I'm now settling down with a large Magnum Classic.
Probably the last thing I'll enjoy tonight.


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Stand by for a right royal battering……
		
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good to see one united fan confident


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2022)

think this is going to be a bit of surprise and have a bad feeling about it


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			think this is going to be a bit of surprise and have a bad feeling about it
		
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feels like a post to try and increase bids for H4H this lol


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			think this is going to be a bit of surprise and have a bad feeling about it
		
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WHAT?
You think you're only going to win by one goal!


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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			good to see one united fan confident 

Click to expand...

Mate, the presenters and pundits all build this up to be a massive rivalry. The sad reality is that it isn’t any more. United’s rivals these days are the likes of West Ham, Wolves and Brighton. We’re light years behind Liverpool.


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Well, that didn't take long!


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Mate, the presenters and pundits all build this up to be a massive rivalry. The sad reality is that it isn’t any more. United’s rivals these days are the likes of West Ham, Wolves and Brighton. We’re light years behind Liverpool.
		
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its ok mate, were in the same boat, we can still be rivals lol

oh my that was some parting at the back


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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

Game over.


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Game over.
		
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I think so.


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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

Huge respect to Liverpool fans. Huge.


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Nice touch at Anfield, very nice.
CR7.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Huge respect to Liverpool fans. Huge.
		
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A bit of class there from both sets of fans


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## Swango1980 (Apr 19, 2022)

I know we have 2 right backs on the pitch, but I didn't realise they were both playing in that position. I assume that is the case, as not a soul at left back for that goal.


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Pogba's seen enough.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 19, 2022)

Slime said:



			Pogba's seen enough.
		
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Yeah, perhaps a fake injury. Doesn't fancy it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 19, 2022)

Utd don't look as though they haven't prepared for this game. What are the coaches doing with them? They look awful.


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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

Slime said:



			I think so.
		
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I actually meant to post that about 7.55pm 😂


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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Utd don't look as though they have trained for this game. What are the coaches doing with them? They look awful.
		
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This is how things are at United now. No system, no identity, no leadership. Absolutely appalling to watch.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 19, 2022)

Can Utd just throw in the towel? I'd be delighted with a 2-0 defeat.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 19, 2022)

Where are the animal pictures tonight?


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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

Gary Neville saying what every United fan thinks. Apart from 4LEX, of course, who thinks he’s clueless 🙄


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Where are the animal pictures tonight?
		
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pretty sure the squirrel and the penguin are having a night off


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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			pretty sure the squirrel and the penguin are having a night off 

Click to expand...

They’ve been sent to Coventry. We might nick a point against them. Or maybe not.


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			They’ve been sent to Coventry. We might nick a point against them. Or maybe not.
		
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gonna be some s***fest when we play each other on saturday lol


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2022)

Well that would be Fulham in the premier league next season

Homie be celebrating tonight


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 19, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			This is how things are at United now. *No system, no identity, no leadership. *Absolutely appalling to watch.
		
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That is what stands out. You can lose but have a plan of how to play. You have nothing. I'm genuinely shocked at how you look.

Will ten Haag be bringing all of his coaching staff with him? I think he needs to as the players aren't working with the current set up. If he is watching he should increase his salary demands.


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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			gonna be some s***fest when we play each other on saturday lol
		
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United don’t deserve Champion’s League. There’s no way this lot deserve to be competing against the best in Europe. I’ll give you the three points now to kick start your run-in.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 19, 2022)

I play football on a Friday. Casual set up, just turn up and play with a random mix of people. All very friendly, and not much running.

I assume this is the approach United take when they turn up to play football.


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			United don’t deserve Champion’s League. There’s no way this lot deserve to be competing against the best in Europe. I’ll give you the three points now to kick start your run-in.
		
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been saying for months wed be far better off finishing 5th or 6th, i worried we wouldnt even do that until i saw your lot tonight  we still might not

pretty sure were all leaving 4th for spurs...............


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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is what stands out. You can lose but have a plan of how to play. You have nothing. I'm genuinely shocked at how you look.

Will ten Haag be bringing all of his coaching staff with him? I think he needs to as the players aren't working with the current set up. If he is watching he should increase his salary demands.
		
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The sad thing is this no longer surprises me. United have been in a downward spiral since before the last title win in 2013. The fact we even hover around the top four says more about the lack of quality elsewhere because United have been this bad for a long, long time.

There is not a single leader on that pitch in a United shirt. Not one. There is no system, no style of play, hasn’t been for years. The club are light years from challenging for anything.

I hope the new manager has a backbone, because his task is huge.


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2022)

xG of 0.00 for Man U in the first half after they dont attempt a single shot. Ouch!


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## Bazzatron (Apr 19, 2022)

I hope the fans who took the piss in the 90s are still supporting them. They were absolutely everywhere. Hardly see any now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2022)

The ball from Mane to Mo for the second goal was just world class


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## Billysboots (Apr 19, 2022)

There was a debate on BBC Sport this morning about which players United need to buy in order to compete. The same debate we’ve had annually for a decade.

Spending millions is pointless. They’ll simply be putting a sticking plaster on a compound fracture. If they haven’t learned that by now, we’re merely set for more of the same, for years to come.


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## Bazzatron (Apr 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 42336

Click to expand...

Only 1 foul. If you can't stop them fairly at least kick someone and stop their momentum. They've been pathetic.


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Where are the animal pictures tonight?
		
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I gave them a few days off as I knew they wouldn't be required.


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			gonna be some s***fest when we play each other on saturday lol
		
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My animals will be back from their hollibobs by then!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2022)

Slime said:



			I gave them a few days off as I knew they wouldn't be required.
		
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## greenone (Apr 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 42336

The ball from Mane to Mo for the second goal was just world class
		
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Surprised Man United possession stats are that high to be fair.


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 42337

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Oh, he's in soooooo much trouble when he gets back!
He's been trying to give up fags for ages but complains that the Nicorette patches hurt when he takes them off!
He's a soft lad, to be fair.


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## hairball_89 (Apr 19, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			There was a debate on BBC Sport this morning about which players United need to buy in order to compete. The same debate we’ve had annually for a decade.

Spending millions is pointless. They’ll simply be putting a sticking plaster on a compound fracture. If they haven’t learned that by now, *we’re merely set for more of the same, for years to come.*

Click to expand...

Oh boy I hope so. Growing up in the 90s it was painful watching United win seemingly everything in sight. This united side is wonderful. Truly wonderful.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 19, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Only 1 foul. If you can't stop them fairly at least kick someone and stop their momentum. They've been pathetic.
		
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Everton play liverpool on Sunday. At the very least I expect us to be right in their faces, ruffle their feathers, put someone on their backside at some stage. You have to knock a team like liverpool off their stride, if you don't have the team to outplay them. I can't believe how utd are just standing off them. There won't be a spec of dirt on either teams kit yet.


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## BiMGuy (Apr 19, 2022)

I’d like to put ManU in the things that gladden the heart thread. But I’ll keep the football related stuff in here.


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## Bazzatron (Apr 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Everton play liverpool on Sunday. At the very least I expect us to be right in their faces, ruffle their feathers, put someone on their backside at some stage. You have to knock a team like liverpool off their stride, if you don't have the team to outplay them. I can't believe how utd are just standing off them. There won't be a spec of dirt on either teams kit yet.
		
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Exactly this. If you can't match them in terms of quality at least match them in effort and fight.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 19, 2022)

Sancho on. Game on...... haha


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Sancho on. Game on...... haha
		
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I'd have brought Garnacho on.


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## Junior (Apr 19, 2022)

Neville summed it up perfectly......its a fair reflection of where the teams are at.  

Nice jesture by the Liverpool fans after 7 mins for Ronaldo.  👏


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## Tashyboy (Apr 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Sancho on. Game on...... haha
		
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How Sancho does not start a game like this I don’t know.😳


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			How Sancho does not start a game like this I don’t know.😳
		
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unreal how these mid tables sides can spend 70m+ on a wide player and then leave him on the bench


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## greenone (Apr 19, 2022)

Sideshow Bob did more running  in 10 minutes than the rest of the United team did in the whole match. 🤣


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Every day's a school day ......................... and Utd were schooled tonight.
Well played Liverpool, I just hope that City don't let things slip!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2022)

Don’t think I have ever seen a worse Man Utd team when it comes to structure and effort 

Even during the 80’s they at least put up a fight for the shirt 

Fernandes is supposed to be the quality yet he just walks around the pitch


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## pokerjoke (Apr 19, 2022)

Great respect from the Liverpool fans after 7 minutes.
Superb performance from them.
Once again shocking from Utd.
I said after 2 games RR wasn’t the answer and I have been proved right.
A massive overhaul is needed.
Liverpool are that good they could do the quadruple,now that would be unbearable.
Still I suspect Liverpool will beat Everton by more than 4


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## pauljames87 (Apr 19, 2022)

Still maintain man United should have stuck with Moyes for 2-3 years or so before going for their proper replacement for fergie.

Got too scared of missing out on the gravy train.

Moyes would have overseen the changing of the guard, shipped out those who don't want to work for the shirt and built a strong base.

A new manager could then have got a war chest and cherry picked who they wanted to become a force again 

Instead roll forward to present day and they still need that clear out of those who don't want to put in the effort. Still have some aging former stars and still look miles off where they need to be.


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## hairball_89 (Apr 19, 2022)

well, that was excellent.

We're quite good at football.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2022)

Thought Keane was going to start crying on Sky.
Thiago fantastic again, but no UTD player laid a boot on him.
The lack of effort was really poor.
Fantastic from the reds

Kieta and Fernandez could have gone. And the lunatic with all the hair but at least he showed a bit of fight.

Class from the fans for CR7.


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Still maintain man United should have stuck with Moyes for 2-3 years or so before going for their proper replacement for fergie.

Got too scared of missing out on the gravy train.

Moyes would have overseen the changing of the guard, shipped out those who don't want to work for the shirt and built a strong base.

A new manager could then have got a war chest and cherry picked who they wanted to become a force again

Instead roll forward to present day and they still need that clear out of those who don't want to put in the effort. Still have some aging former stars and still look miles off where they need to be.
		
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None of us knows how Moyes performed (at least compared to Fergie) off the pitch. Incredibly hard act to follow (poisoned chalice really) but I suspect Moyes is much better suited to building up teams that are 'nearly great' than those with players with massive egos already. 
Mind you, the way ManU performed tonight was dire! Better in 2nd half, but still not what should be expected! Liverpool, on the other hand, were as dominant as I've seen for some time. I trust Salah got MOTM - the best I've seen him play for quite a while!


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not feeling good about tonight's game.
Our engine room contains Pogba and Matic, the laziest player in the league alongside the slowest.
Add to that the fact that we have no recognised No.9 available ................ what could possibly go wrong?
*I'm going 4-0.* 

Click to expand...


Unfortunately, you heard it here first!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516522204246290444
Shame some Utd let the team down with some poor chants late in the game 🤬


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			...
Shame some Utd let the team down with some poor chants late in the game 🤬
		
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No need for the added 'dig'. L'pool were simply so much better on the field! And many ManU 'fans' left early!


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 19, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Where are the animal pictures tonight?
		
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I think that Hannibal could compete at Crufts. 

OO Naby, you dodged a red there lad, didnt see it at the match but just seen the replay on the box.

I know the game is different now, and apart from Hannibal kicking everything in sight, I've never seen a Man U team with so little fight. I know the pundits mention character, but even in the early and mid 80's with Remi Moses, Paul McGrath, Whiteside, Robson, Frank Stapleton you had to win the war as well. 

Great performance by the team, what a week it will be if we can beat the blues as well on Sunday.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



_Great respect from the Liverpool fans after 7 minutes._
Superb performance from them.
*Once again shocking from Utd.
I said after 2 games RR wasn’t the answer and I have been proved right.*
A massive overhaul is needed.
Liverpool are that good they could do the quadruple,now that would be unbearable.
Still I suspect Liverpool will beat Everton by more than 4
		
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You also said AWB was a better defender than TAA 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			No need for the added 'dig'. L'pool were simply so much better on the field! And many ManU 'fans' left early!
		
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There was every need. Using disasters to point score is beyond the pale. Their continued use of vile songs  needs to be highlighted and eradicated. 

And before we blame a small minority and a few idiots, it was well supported and  loud enough from the 3k travelling supporters.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

Onto the game, we were superb all over the park. We made Yernited look bang average.

They're mediocre at best, its like they've gone back to the 80's when they were just an  average side.

Fernandes is a MOTD player. 

I'm lucky to be watching the greatest Liverpool side in the flesh. They're a delight to watch.


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## Foxholer (Apr 20, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			There was every need. Using disasters to point score is beyond the pale. Their continued use of vile songs  needs to be highlighted and eradicated.

And before we blame a small minority and a few idiots, it was well supported and  loud enough from the 3k travelling supporters.
		
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Ah! My apologies! I didn't actually hear it (otherwise engaged), so when 'poor' was mentioned, I thought it was something relatively trivial. I agree re the 'vile' songs. Clubs need to get together and formulate some method of combatting that sort of activity. @Liverpoolphil


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Ah! My apologies! I didn't actually hear it (otherwise engaged), so when 'poor' was mentioned, I thought it was something relatively trivial. I agree re the 'vile' songs. Clubs need to get together and formulate some method of combatting that sort of activity.
		
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No problem. Apologise to LP.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 20, 2022)

Didn't see all of the game as I was watching the might Fulham back to the promised land. What I did see was awful and I would fancy Fulham's chances against United at the moment. Thought Neville had it spot on with his comments. Really pleasing to see the reaction after 7 minutes. Not sure how much further United can really fall now. I am not sure any manager can get this lot back to where they are unless they are given the full term of their contract but is that what the board and especially the fans will allow. If they aren't seen as a top 4 side next season, highly unlikely given their lack of commitment from their so called "Star players", then the fans will be on the managers back again and no doubt if results aren't going well the board will take another knee jerk reaction


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## pauljames87 (Apr 20, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't see all of the game as I was watching the might Fulham back to the promised land. What I did see was awful and I would fancy Fulham's chances against United at the moment. Thought Neville had it spot on with his comments. Really pleasing to see the reaction after 7 minutes. Not sure how much further United can really fall now. I am not sure any manager can get this lot back to where they are unless they are given the full term of their contract but is that what the board and especially the fans will allow. If they aren't seen as a top 4 side next season, highly unlikely given their lack of commitment from their so called "Star players", then the fans will be on the managers back again and no doubt if results aren't going well the board will take another knee jerk reaction
		
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Can't believe they have 54 points tbh.. got a bet we will finish above them .. going to the wire .. Ronaldo has single handedly dragged them there tbh well him and Degea .. otherwise they would be lucky to break top 10


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 20, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Can't believe they have 54 points tbh.. got a bet we will finish above them .. going to the wire .. Ronaldo has single handedly dragged them there tbh well him and Degea .. otherwise they would be lucky to break top 10
		
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They have definitely been too reliant on Ronaldo and his absence yesterday against a top side was apparent for all to see. Can't see them getting anything at Chelsea (it depends which Arsenal turn up at the weekend) and wouldn't be surprised to see Brighton and Palace turn them over


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## pauljames87 (Apr 20, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			They have definitely been too reliant on Ronaldo and his absence yesterday against a top side was apparent for all to see. Can't see them getting anything at Chelsea (it depends which Arsenal turn up at the weekend) and wouldn't be surprised to see Brighton and Palace turn them over
		
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Carlsberg dont make end of seasons..


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## Jimaroid (Apr 20, 2022)

I only saw the first half of the game last night but I can’t remember ever watching a better 45 minutes. Liverpool are playing beautiful football and it’s great to watch. That second goal, Mane is a magician, what a perfectly weighted ball. Beautiful.

Is it the best Liverpool side there’s ever been? Not talking about trophies but in terms of the style they’re playing I think it is.

We’re going to be destroyed on Sunday, hope it’s a clean game and we can limit damage to 3 goals and about the same number of yellows. 😂

Edit. Forgot to add. The 7 minute applause and segue into YNWA is what football is all about. That’s the beautiful game right there.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I only saw the first half of the game last night but I can’t remember ever watching a better 45 minutes. Liverpool are playing beautiful football and it’s great to watch. That second goal, Mane is a magician, what a perfectly weighted ball. Beautiful.

Is it the best Liverpool side there’s ever been? Not talking about trophies but in terms of the style they’re playing I think it is.

We’re going to be destroyed on Sunday, hope it’s a clean game and we can limit damage to 3 goals and about the same number of yellows. 😂

Edit. Forgot to add. The 7 minute applause and segue into YNWA is what football is all about. That’s the beautiful game right there.
		
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Spot on there Jim.

Unfortunately for us there's another team not too far away who are also playing fantastic football, both  are worthy of winning trophies. 

I'm certain Everton will at least show some fight on Sunday. That performamce  last night was horrific, they havent got the minerals for a fight.  

Infact the captain's words (its not about denting Liverpools title hopes- yes it bloody well is!!) on monday tells you what they're all about currently.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Ah! My apologies! I didn't actually hear it (otherwise engaged), so when 'poor' was mentioned, I thought it was something relatively trivial. I agree re the 'vile' songs. Clubs need to get together and formulate some method of combatting that sort of activity. @Liverpoolphil

Click to expand...

Just for clarity, here's the link to what im talking about. This wasnt the 1st time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516562224164257797


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## Swango1980 (Apr 20, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Spot on there Jim.

Unfortunately for us there's another team not too far away who are also playing fantastic football, both  are worthy of winning trophies. 

I'm certain Everton will at least show some fight on Sunday. That performamce  last night was horrific, they havent got the minerals for a fight.  

Infact the captain's words (its not about denting Liverpools title hopes- yes it bloody well is!!) on monday tells you what they're all about currently.
		
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Bruno's interview after was also an embarrassment. He said Liverpool have something to play for, and we didn't.

Absolute insult. Firstly, finishing in the top 4 is still important, and something to fight for. Secondly, denting a big rivals title hopes is always something to play for. Thirdly, pride and playing for your future.

Their attitudes absolutely sum up this worthless bunch of wasters at United. Half the team gave up months ago (or years ago if your Pogba). The other half are busy dreaming up what they'll post on social media once the game is over. 

Has any team, including teams at the foot of the table, ever had less fight than the guys at Utd right now? Have any fans of other football clubs despised your players as much as Utd fans do theirs at this moment? Even RR looked like he was closest to losing it in the post match interview, indicating the first goal was not part of the game plan at all (I.e. the players on the pitch are bloody useless at following directions)


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## Foxholer (Apr 20, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Can't believe they have 54 points tbh.. *got a bet we will finish above them* .. going to the wire .. Ronaldo has single handedly dragged them there tbh well him and Degea .. otherwise they would be lucky to break top 10
		
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Not one I'd fancy, given 'our' run-in, though - even after that shocking performance.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 20, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Not one I'd fancy, given 'our' run-in, though - even after that shocking performance.
		
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Olle was at the wheel when it was placed


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Bruno's interview after was also an embarrassment. He said Liverpool have something to play for, and we didn't.

Absolute insult. Firstly, finishing in the top 4 is still important, and something to fight for. Secondly, denting a big rivals title hopes is always something to play for. Thirdly, pride and playing for your future.

Their attitudes absolutely sum up this worthless bunch of wasters at United. Half the team gave up months ago (or years ago if your Pogba). The other half are busy dreaming up what they'll post on social media once the game is over.

Has any team, including teams at the foot of the table, ever had less fight than the guys at Utd right now? *Have any fans of other football clubs despised your players as much as Utd fans do theirs at this moment? *Even RR looked like he was closest to losing it in the post match interview, indicating the first goal was not part of the game plan at all (I.e. the players on the pitch are bloody useless at following directions)
		
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You need to log onto twiter after Everton lose 😁😁

I'm glad you mentioned Bruno. He's the ultimate show pony him. LiverpoolPhil was right about him. 

If any captain of mine gave an interview like Maguire did, i'd want him stripped of the captaincy. Even when your not the best, the minimum they must give is100% effort and try your best.

Pogba never fancied it and a miraculous injury appeared after 3mins. I'm surprised he went and sat on the bench as opposed to straight down the tunnel for treatment you'd expect if he couldnt run it off.


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## adam6177 (Apr 20, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Just for clarity, here's the link to what im talking about. This wasnt the 1st time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516562224164257797

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I'm absolutely gobsmacked by that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I'm absolutely gobsmacked by that.
		
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I’m not surprised by it all - both Saturday and yesterday just shows that there will always be that toxic nature with football fans 

The fact a good few thousand or so think that innocent people dying is a good reasons to “wind up” opposite fans just shows the brain dead level of scum that follow some clubs 

Even more so when you look and read their own fans trying to justify and just look at “whataboutary” - also the fans that refuse to condemn it and also the clubs that refuse to do anything about 

Until they start to ban fans from the grounds for it then they will continue to do it


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## Jimaroid (Apr 20, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You need to log onto twiter after Everton lose 😁😁
		
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We're not much better when we win. 

Hate's a strong word. I don't hate the players but I am close to hating the owner(s). Even at our worst we've still got some players that will work hard, I'm more frustrated by the players that shouldn't be in the squad at all. Almost hate Richi when he's up to his antics but I still think he's got passion and he always gives it a go. ManU just exhibited an appalling lack of professionalism last night, from what I saw, DeGea was the only player who tried to do his job.

Anyway, it's all meant in jest. Ronaldo's loss brings home how there's a human behind every player. Any person that wasn't moved by that needs sent off the planet.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The fact a good few thousand or so think that innocent people dying is a good reasons to “wind up” opposite fans just shows the brain dead level of scum that follow some clubs
		
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They follow ALL clubs LP including yours and mine. We've got fewer of them than Liverpool purely due to having fewer fans overall but I bet on a percentage basis every club would have around the same level of idiots/scum. Plenty of clubs sing, or have sung, about the Munich disaster while their team plays at Old Trafford. Plenty of clubs will have sung about Hillsborough while at Anfield.

Let's not pretend that it's only "some clubs" that have these morons following them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			They follow ALL clubs LP including yours and mine. We've got fewer of them than Liverpool purely due to having fewer fans overall but I bet on a percentage basis every club would have around the same level of idiots/scum. Plenty of clubs sing, or have sung, about the Munich disaster while their team plays at Old Trafford. Plenty of clubs will have sung about Hillsborough while at Anfield.

Let's not pretend that it's only "some clubs" that have these morons following them.
		
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There will be some clubs out there that won’t have fans who act in that way but it’s all being taken away from the point being made 

These chants - ( irrelevant of which club is making them ) are disgusting and beyond the pale and it’s time that someone did something and that includes the main stream media - it was good to see BBC highlight the poor actions of the City fans on Saturday , Sky highlighted the applause at 7 mins but nothing about the actions later , Neville and Carragher can hear it - they should highlight , something needs to be done - whether that’s Munich , Hillsborough , Murderers , Heysel chants - it all needs to stop. The media etc leapt upon fans calling Chelsea fans “rent boys” - why won’t they do the same for what happened last night


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## pauljames87 (Apr 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There will be some clubs out there that won’t have fans who act in that way but it’s all being taken away from the point being made

These chants - ( irrelevant of which club is making them ) are disgusting and beyond the pale and it’s time that someone did something and that includes the main stream media - it was good to see BBC highlight the poor actions of the City fans on Saturday , Sky highlighted the applause at 7 mins but nothing about the actions later , Neville and Carragher can hear it - they should highlight , something needs to be done - whether that’s Munich , Hillsborough , Murderers , Heysel chants - it all needs to stop. The media etc leapt upon fans calling Chelsea fans “rent boys” - why won’t they do the same for what happened last night
		
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Because calling someone a rent boy or using the y word is defined as a hate crime.

Singing about Hillsborough isn't.

It's disgusting but not a buzz word


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			They follow ALL clubs LP including yours and mine. We've got fewer of them than Liverpool purely due to having fewer fans overall but I bet on a percentage basis every club would have around the same level of idiots/scum. Plenty of clubs sing, or have sung, about the Munich disaster while their team plays at Old Trafford. Plenty of clubs will have sung about Hillsborough while at Anfield.

Let's not pretend that it's only "some clubs" that have these morons following them.
		
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Nobody is pretending nothing. 

This is the standard response that just excuses why its done. When its challenged its just " oh moaning again" "remember when you's sung about munich" etc etc. Its petty.

Munich hasnt been sung about at Anfield for a very long time, on the odd occassion it has it always gets drowned out. It got sung a couple of years ago at OT in response to this bile which i'm certainly not excusing, though i can understand why people will retaliate.

"The sun was right, Murderers" 

They acutaully werent and its been proved they lied but hey, the myth keeps getting pedalled. 

 It needs to stop.  It's not funny, it doesnt hurt me personally but im sure it hurts people who have innocently lost loved ones.


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## Foxholer (Apr 20, 2022)

Would sanctions (e.g. fines, reduced seat allocation) against the club of the perpetrators help? They are likely in a better position to identify and deal with the perps too. It's still an 'after the event' activity and there'd have to be agreement/adjudiction on what constitutes 'unacceptable/aggressive fan behaviour'.
Why is it only Football though? Rugby, for example, doesn't seem to have a problem - even often seating fans from opposing sides in the same areas!


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## Tashyboy (Apr 20, 2022)

Some sad news today. Jim Lawlor has stepped down from his role as chief scout at Manchester United. 

Jim helped United scout the best players over a 16 year period and was a key part in making sure that United had a continuous basis of being completely and utterly....rammel .


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## pauljames87 (Apr 20, 2022)

Wow sounds like the Frankfurt game has sold out already 

It went on sale to season ticket holders getting additional tickets / members getting tickets today and their all gone by looks 

My mate unfortunately couldnt get us a ticket .. he has his but he talking of giving it to his friend as his friend couldn't get his son a ticket 

Going to be a loud evening by sounds


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 20, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Wow sounds like the Frankfurt game has sold out already

It went on sale to season ticket holders getting additional tickets / members getting tickets today and their all gone by looks

My mate unfortunately couldnt get us a ticket .. he has his but he talking of giving it to his friend as his friend couldn't get his son a ticket

Going to be a loud evening by sounds
		
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I have been to the old Frankfurt stadium set in a forest a few miles out of town but by all accounts the new one is even better. A bit like swapping the Boleyn for the London stadium. If any of your mates get a chance to go over I think they'll have a great day. Frankfurt is a great city and from my experience their fans aren't idiots (well not as many as other German clubs)


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## pauljames87 (Apr 20, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I have been to the old Frankfurt stadium set in a forest a few miles out of town but by all accounts the new one is even better. A bit like swapping the Boleyn for the London stadium. If any of your mates get a chance to go over I think they'll have a great day. Frankfurt is a great city and from my experience their fans aren't idiots (well not as many as other German clubs)
		
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Was the home leg but 60000 fans will be good 

People said we would never fill it


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 20, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Was the home leg but 60000 fans will be good

People said we would never fill it
		
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I knew that and it will be one of those magic nights you only get once. I still remember the Juventus home game. What a night and yes tears flowed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516707493732397059
Looks like it should be sealed soon - will prob end up paying around £8mil for him 

May well go on loan for a season in the same way Elliott did


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Some sad news today. Jim Lawlor has stepped down from his role as chief scout at Manchester United. 

Jim helped United scout the best players over a 16 year period and was a key part in making sure that United had a continuous basis of being completely and utterly....rammel .
		
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## pauljames87 (Apr 20, 2022)

Black eye peas best be careful 2 out of 3 of them have allegations surrounding them


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

not gonna lie, a spine of Holding, Elneny and Nketiah worries me a little tonight lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			not gonna lie, a spine of Holding, Elneny and Nketiah worries me a little tonight lol
		
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Bet they still put in more effort than the whole United side last night


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bet they still put in more effort than the whole United side last night
		
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not a very high bar......


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

well thats an unexpected start  cheers Andreas


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## paddyc (Apr 20, 2022)

Hello! That's a nice finish young Eddie!


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## paddyc (Apr 20, 2022)

Ffs Xhaka afraid to get hit by the ball pathetic


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## Tashyboy (Apr 20, 2022)

As a City fan I know what empty seats look like 😉😁


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

chelsea on the beach? that could be handy


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

I thought Reece james knew how to defend🤔


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## pauljames87 (Apr 20, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought Reece james knew how to defend🤔
		
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Being caught out occasionally is acceptable even for a top level defender 

Being caught out more 4 times a season not so acceptable


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

hope the neutrals are enjoy cant defend wont defend on SS tonight lol


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## paddyc (Apr 20, 2022)

With our defence  we may need to score 5 to win this.another crap goal conceded.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 20, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Nobody is pretending nothing.

This is the standard response that just excuses why its done. When its challenged its just " oh moaning again" "remember when you's sung about munich" etc etc. Its petty.

Munich hasnt been sung about at Anfield for a very long time, on the odd occassion it has it always gets drowned out. It got sung a couple of years ago at OT in response to this bile which i'm certainly not excusing, though i can understand why people will retaliate.

"The sun was right, Murderers"

They acutaully werent and its been proved they lied but hey, the myth keeps getting pedalled.

It needs to stop.  It's not funny, it doesnt hurt me personally but im sure it hurts people who have innocently lost loved ones.
		
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That was a direct response to LP's post about "the brain dead level of scum that follow some clubs". I was just replying that it's not "some" clubs, it's ALL clubs, including my own, that have an undesirable element in their following that will get involved in that sort of behaviour. In my post I didn't mention any particular clubs making any particular chants, or criticise any particular fanbase. 

It does need to stop, and it doesn't matter which club's fans are chanting about Munich at Old Trafford, or chanting about Hillsborough or Heysel at Anfield, or any other example that you can come up with. None of it is acceptable, none of it affects me personally, but it needs to be eradicated from the game. And that includes those that are using that it was only used to "retaliate". That's still not acceptable.


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

paddyc said:



			With our defence  we may need to score 5 to win this.another crap goal conceded.
		
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you sure 5 will be enough Pat?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 20, 2022)

Going forward Arsenal look fluid and inventive. Defending they look like rabbits in headlights. They could have this in their grasp if they could cut out the stupidity at the back. A snapshot of the season in one half


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Going forward Arsenal look fluid and inventive. Defending they look like rabbits in headlights. They could have this in their grasp if they could cut out the stupidity at the back. *A snapshot of the season in one half*

Click to expand...


is it?


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## paddyc (Apr 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			you sure 5 will be enough Pat?
		
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If we can hold onto to the lead for more than 2 minutes I think it should  be enough. Don't understand  bringing in Holding to play alongside Gabriel and move White to RB. Holding playing like Maguire!


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

paddyc said:



			If we can hold onto to the lead for more than 2 minutes I think it should  be enough. Don't understand  bringing in Holding to play alongside Gabriel and move White to RB. Holding playing like Maguire!
		
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week in week out the untouchable one makes changes that have knock on effects, mainly because we allowed several to leave in january without any thought of replacing them or who would cover when we picked up injures, last week he took xhaka out to left back and played sambi on his own, this week its white, i assume Sakas playing left wing back on the weekend?


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

just to show how bad our january tfr window was, Maitlin Niles was let out on loan, hed have started in 3 spots in this side tonight!!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			is it?
		
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Some brilliant stuff and some rubbish. Think that's Arsenal in a nutshell. If they could find any level of consistency they'd be nailed on for 4th. Just look at the last few results


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Some brilliant stuff and some rubbish. Think that's Arsenal in a nutshell. If they could find any level of consistency they'd be nailed on for 4th. Just look at the last few results
		
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"Going forward Arsenal look fluid and inventive", "Just look at the last few results" - you mean the last 3 where we scored one goal in the 90th min


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 20, 2022)

Not sure that 3rd arsenal goal will make goal of the season 😄. All gratefully received though, I'm sure. 

Bonkers open game, great for the neutral.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 20, 2022)

Keep it up arsenal.. keeping the dream of spurs out of champs League alive

Their fans have become unbearable.. see the Europa League and conference as below them .. trophy is a trophy! Just let themselves go out early rather than go for it


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 20, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			They follow ALL clubs LP including yours and mine. We've got fewer of them than Liverpool purely due to having fewer fans overall but I bet on a percentage basis every club would have around the same level of idiots/scum. Plenty of clubs sing, or have sung, about the Munich disaster while their team plays at Old Trafford. Plenty of clubs will have sung about Hillsborough while at Anfield.

Let's not pretend that it's only "some clubs" that have these morons following them.
		
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That is as close to apologist as you can get.

Until football clubs ban their own, shame them and do much more it will continue. Passing it off as its just a few idiots doesnt change a thing.


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## paddyc (Apr 20, 2022)

Cedric wtf are you doing decent ball in and its 4-2


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 20, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Cedric wtf are you doing decent ball in and its 4-2
		
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It was a similar scenario to the first liverpool goal last night except he didn't play the ball across when your man was open.

Arsenal looking good tonight. Where has this been the last few games?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2022)

How the heck is that a penalty when Saka has hold of Azpilicueta


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2022)

What a cracking result  

file it under the category of a good time to play Chelsea i think 

All the good stuff coming from the good young uns as always, massive game saturday now


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## paddyc (Apr 20, 2022)

Well never saw this coming had resigned to a goaless hapless defeat against a superior side. Massive win get in!


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## paddyc (Apr 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How the heck is that a penalty when Saka has hold of Azpilicueta
		
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You been to Specsavers recently  Phil?The Chelsea player clearly wrestled him to the ground.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 20, 2022)

Big for Everton to save a point tonight at the end. Jeez this is hard going. It's like pulling teeth.

Come on Saints tomorrow night 😄


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2022)

paddyc said:



			You been to Specsavers recently  Phil?The Chelsea player clearly wrestled him to the ground.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516882837282119681
Are you sure ?

So it’s not Saka grabbing hold of the Chelsea defender as can be seen in this video ?


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## Jimaroid (Apr 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Big for Everton to save a point tonight at the end. Jeez this is hard going. It's like pulling teeth.

Come on Saints tomorrow night 😄
		
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Not a good performance for the blood pressure but that was the type of scrappy draw that could save us.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

Have City been stopped  from selling tickets like Chelsea?

😁😁


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 20, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			That is as close to apologist as you can get.

Until football clubs ban their own, shame them and do much more it will continue. Passing it off as its just a few idiots doesnt change a thing.
		
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How on earth is that close to being an apologist? I'm simply pointing out that LP was wrong and that it's not just "some clubs" that have these people following them, it's ALL clubs, including my own. ALL clubs have a percentage of scumbags that follow them that will do things to bring their club into disrepute. I'm not passing it off as "a few idiots". It might only be "a few idiots" at my club due to the low level of support we've got (tens or hundreds rather than thousands) but when you ratio those "few idiots" up when you get to the level of support of the top clubs then it's a lot of idiots. 

To be clear, and so I can't be accused of being an apologist, in my opinion........

If a Liverpool fan sings about the Munich disaster they should be identified and banned for life from attending the stadium.
If a Man Utd fan sings about Heysel or Hillsborough they should be identified and banned for life from attending the stadium.

This is not restricted to Man Utd or Liverpool fans and IMO is equally applicable across the board.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 20, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Not a good performance for the blood pressure but that was the type of scrappy draw that could save us.
		
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Absolutely. Every little baby step (point) 😁


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2022)

Tuchel not happy but blaming the pitch 
🤣🤣

At least it gives the flat track bully the perfect excuse😉


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## paddyc (Apr 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516882837282119681
Are you sure ?

So it’s not Saka grabbing hold of the Chelsea defender as can be seen in this video ?
		
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A Tweet from Tottenham  Hotspur Dan, well he would say it was never a Pen!


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 20, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			How on earth is that close to being an apologist? I'm simply pointing out that LP was wrong and that it's not just "some clubs" that have these people following them, it's ALL clubs, including my own. ALL clubs have a percentage of scumbags that follow them that will do things to bring their club into disrepute. I'm not passing it off as "a few idiots". It might only be "a few idiots" at my club due to the low level of support we've got (tens or hundreds rather than thousands) but when you ratio those "few idiots" up when you get to the level of support of the top clubs then it's a lot of idiots.

To be clear, and so I can't be accused of being an apologist, in my opinion........

If a Liverpool fan sings about the Munich disaster they should be identified and banned for life from attending the stadium.
If a Man Utd fan sings about Heysel or Hillsborough they should be identified and banned for life from attending the stadium.

This is not restricted to Man Utd or Liverpool fans and IMO is equally applicable across the board.
		
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Thats a lot better.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			God I hope so. Would be hilarious if they got relegated immediately after becoming the richest club on earth. 

Click to expand...

Well, you hoped for Eddie Howe to be appointed Newcastle manager, and you got your wish. Sadly, that whole hilarious relegation to the Championship didn't quite work out for you


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’ll take the bet - £20 👍
		
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DanFST said:



			If you ignore City the year before with triple figure points, you're right.

Liverpool won't get top 2, wager for H4H from any Liverpool fans?
		
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@DanFST - still valid ?


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## Orikoru (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, you hoped for Eddie Howe to be appointed Newcastle manager, and you got your wish. Sadly, that whole hilarious relegation to the Championship didn't quite work out for you 

Click to expand...

Yep, fair enough - throwing 90 million quid at the problem certainly did the job. Howe will probably be decent for them from now on, since he won't need to coach them how to defend - just buy better defenders.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yep, fair enough - throwing 90 million quid at the problem certainly did the job. Howe will probably be decent for them from now on, since he won't need to coach them how to defend - just buy better defenders. 

Click to expand...

The defence was a Championship standard defence, hence why they were near the bottom. He bought Trippier at £13m, Burn at £13m, Targett is on loan. Not extravagent spending but what a difference.

The league is full of teams who have spent £90m, and the rest, on utter rubbish. So far Wood has been the only dud.

Did you see the league table that Sky posted at the weekend, showing the league if it began on Jan 1st? Newcastle were second, one point behind Liverpool. 

Give Howe some credit. He has not just bought some good players, he has got poor players playing much better, he has them playing a system. He has genuinely done a good job, go on say it.....


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## Orikoru (Apr 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The defence was a Championship standard defence, hence why they were near the bottom. He bought Trippier at £13m, Burn at £13m, Targett is on loan. Not extravagent spending but what a difference.

The league is full of teams who have spent £90m, and the rest, on utter rubbish. So far Wood has been the only dud.

Did you see the league table that Sky posted at the weekend, showing the league if it began on Jan 1st? Newcastle were second, one point behind Liverpool.

Give Howe some credit. He has not just bought some good players, he has got poor players playing much better, he has them playing a system. He has genuinely done a good job, go on say it.....
		
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All I've said is his teams can't defend. Still true given that they managed to ship 5 to Spurs recently! As you say, buying three new defenders in the back four obviously helps. Their best attacker was Bruno who was a new signing as well. I still think they bought Wood just to relegate Burnley. 

Howe is just a modern-day Kevin Keegan. Gung-ho, try and outscore the opposition - buy him the right players and it'll work, but when he needs to be pragmatic or tactical he'll come unstuck. I guess he's at the right club as the fans will be quite happy if he gets them playing like their Keegan era.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 21, 2022)

What was with the swathes of empty seats at SB last night? I guess they were seats not allocated to ST holders or not bought before sanctions applied that could not be sold due to the sanctions?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			All I've said is his teams can't defend. Still true given that they managed to ship 5 to Spurs recently! As you say, buying three new defenders in the back four obviously helps. Their best attacker was Bruno who was a new signing as well. I still think they bought Wood just to relegate Burnley. 

Howe is just a modern-day Kevin Keegan. Gung-ho, try and outscore the opposition - buy him the right players and it'll work, but when he needs to be pragmatic or tactical he'll come unstuck. I guess he's at the right club as the fans will be quite happy if he gets them playing like their Keegan era.
		
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I think you are being unfair on what he has done at Newcastle so far. He really has not gone gung ho, a la Keegan. He has made them more solid but has also told the midfield to support the striker more. Bruce played with one up front, no midfielder went to support him. Saint-Maximim was allowed to run with the ball but the others all held back. He now has players supporting Wood, running past the striker, but they are not playing basketball football. 

He will buy more players in the summer but that is simply to bring in decent players throughout, something that has been sorely lacking. If you look at the team now, a good number are the same as those totally under performing in the first half of the season. He really has improved them as individuals, as well as a team.


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## Orikoru (Apr 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think you are being unfair on what he has done at Newcastle so far. He really has not gone gung ho, a la Keegan. He has made them more solid but has also told the midfield to support the striker more. Bruce played with one up front, no midfielder went to support him. Saint-Maximim was allowed to run with the ball but the others all held back. He now has players supporting Wood, running past the striker, but they are not playing basketball football.

He will buy more players in the summer but that is simply to bring in decent players throughout, something that has been sorely lacking. If you look at the team now, a good number are the same as those totally under performing in the first half of the season. He really has improved them as individuals, as well as a team.
		
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Anything would have been an improvement on Bruce.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, you hoped for Eddie Howe to be appointed Newcastle manager, and you got your wish. Sadly, that whole hilarious relegation to the Championship didn't quite work out for you 

Click to expand...

You cant laugh, i can remember some of your quotes from earlier on in the season🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Anything would have been an improvement on Bruce. 

Click to expand...

Low bar. to be fair Howe has always got his sides well organised and not leaking so many goals has to help. Not convinced they are in any shape to start challenging the top 6 and not sure what players they would need to get there. Definitely feel there are many positions that need improving


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Low bar. *to be fair Howe has always got his sides well organised *and not leaking so many goals has to help. Not convinced they are in any shape to start challenging the top 6 and not sure what players they would need to get there. Definitely feel there are many positions that need improving
		
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When??🤔🤔

Are you talking about the same Eddie Howe who managed Bournemouth and and couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery?


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You cant laugh, i can remember some of your quotes from earlier on in the season🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️
		
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Which ones? We always make predictions, and unless we can genuinely read the future then inevitably, we'll not always be right.

I usually caveat my predictions, or give them with caution. However, I remembered some being pretty much certain that Howe was a dreadful appointment, and Newcastle would be doomed. My eyebrow was not raised that maybe Howe would not be a good appointment (there was always a chance he could fail), but it was raised that some could be so confident he'd be a failure.


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## Orikoru (Apr 21, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Low bar. to be fair Howe has always got his sides well organised and not leaking so many goals has to help. Not convinced they are in any shape to start challenging the top 6 and not sure what players they would need to get there. Definitely feel there are many positions that need improving
		
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I'm sure there will be a ridiculous amount spent - even the recent purchases like Burn & Wood may be usurped and not get a look in. They could do with a good goalkeeper and a better striker than Wood who will actually score a good number of goals for them. I personally have never rated Shelvey either, a couple of really good central midfielders wouldn't go amiss.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			When??🤔🤔

Are you talking about the same Eddie Howe who managed Bournemouth and and couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery?
		
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He had Bournemouth well set for a few years in the PL and given the size of ground, limited income and depth of squad did alright.


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## Beezerk (Apr 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I personally have never rated Shelvey either, a couple of really good central midfielders wouldn't go amiss.
		
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That Bruno lad they signed looks the real deal, he’s already become a cult hero up in Tyneside and he’s only started in 2 or 3 games lol.
Agree about Shelvey, he has upped his game recently since Howe arrived but he’s still not good enough if Newcastle really do want to kick on next season.


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## Orikoru (Apr 21, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			That Bruno lad they signed looks the real deal, he’s already become a cult hero up in Tyneside and he’s only started in 2 or 3 games lol.
Agree about Shelvey, he has upped his game recently since Howe arrived but he’s still not good enough if Newcastle really do want to kick on next season.
		
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Yeah, I thought Bruno was more of an attacker/number 10, so I just meant get a couple of holding players in behind him.


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## Beezerk (Apr 21, 2022)

Ten Hag confirmed as the next Man Utd manager, can he make a silk purse from a sows ear? 😬


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 21, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Ten Hag confirmed as the next Man Utd manager, can he make a silk purse from a sows ear? 😬
		
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Three year deal with possibility of a years extension https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61079115

Think he'll need every one of those to dismantle and rebuild completely. Lots of dead wood to be moved on. Hope the fans and to a degree the board realise this means they won't be a top four side and Europa league will be their limits and they don't get on Ten Hag's back when results aren't going well. Think he's a brave man taking that mess on


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 21, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Ten Hag confirmed as the next Man Utd manager, can he make a silk purse from a sows ear? 😬
		
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We can only hope not .

The question is, as an outsider looking in, will the Utd fans and board accept a period of rebuild. Will they accept not being competitive next year, not that they have been this year, if it allows Ten Haag to change the team, bring in his philosophy? They need to, surely recent times have shown the size of the gutting required, whether in personnel or simply changing the mindset, culture at the club. The team may need to dip further before coming out the other side.

Massive job in front  of him.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We can only hope not .

The question is, as an outsider looking in, will the Utd fans and board accept a period of rebuild. Will they accept not being competitive next year if it allows Ten Haag to change the team, bring in his philosophy? They need to, surely recent times have shown the size of the gutting required, whether in personnel or simply changing the mindset, culture at the club.

Massive job in front  of him.
		
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As a Utd fan, personally I WOULD accept a period of rebuild.

Watching Utd this season has been horrific, unless we play against Leeds. The players find it impossible to control a game against anyone, it is frightening. As someone already pointed out, I am shocked Utd are even as high as they are in the league. Once ten Hag comes in, I will be more interested in his approach to build things up. I certainly won't expect Utd to come flying out of the traps, playing beautiful football and directly challenging for the title. Not even close to expecting that.

Utd will be losing quite a few players anyway due to contracts running out. He'll need to find out which remaining players have a chance of being part of a successful rebuild, and the ones that are either broken beyond repair, or whose attitude isn't right. And get rid. Then find the players to bring in. It seems that a lot more needs to change than just the manager. The coaching set-up probably needs a complete change, and the scouting.

The worry is that ten Hag comes in, but everything else behind the scenes remains broken and he really does have the impossible job.


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## Beezerk (Apr 21, 2022)

Isn’t the current manager going upstairs to be director of football? Surely that’s a good start for getting the backroom staff sorted out?


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## Foxholer (Apr 21, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Ten Hag confirmed as the next Man Utd manager, can he make a silk purse from a sows ear? 😬
		
Click to expand...

At last they've realised the folly of having someone as an 'interim manager' for an extended period and done something concrete about it!


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 21, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			At last they've realised the folly of having someone as an 'interim manager' for an extended period and done something concrete about it!
		
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He is still there, RR, until the end of the season though. It will be interesting to see if the attitude changes or whether the drift gets worse.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			At last they've realised the folly of having someone as an 'interim manager' for an extended period and done something concrete about it!
		
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At last!? This was their plan when they appointed RR anyway, so I doubt they've finally changed their tact.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Isn’t the current manager going upstairs to be director of football? Surely that’s a good start for getting the backroom staff sorted out?
		
Click to expand...

That is true. And, on paper, I felt it was a positive move. However, I'll only start feeling more confident when there seem to be positive changes on the pitch. I've had false hope over the last few years enough times.


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## Foxholer (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			At last!? This was their plan when they appointed RR anyway, so I doubt they've finally changed their tact.
		
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Did the words 'for an extended period' not mean anything to you?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			He had Bournemouth well set for a few years in the PL and given the size of ground, limited income and depth of squad did alright.
		
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Well set up,  Not sure about that H. They couldnt keep clean sheets and thats not a definition of being well set up.

They conceded the following goals

67 in 15/16
67 in 16/17
61 in 17/18
56 in 18/19 
65 in 19/20


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Which ones? We always make predictions, and unless we can genuinely read the future then inevitably, we'll not always be right.

I usually caveat my predictions, or give them with caution. However, I remembered some being pretty much certain that Howe was a dreadful appointment, and Newcastle would be doomed. My eyebrow was not raised that maybe Howe would not be a good appointment (there was always a chance he could fail), but it was raised that some could be so confident he'd be a failure.
		
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This one is my favourite, word for word👇

United's squad, in my opinion, is not far off the best squad in history of PL....... 


🤣🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			This one is my favourite, word for word👇

United's squad, in my opinion, is not far off the best squad in history of PL.......


🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Did the "....." not give it away a bit that I was taking the mick!?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Well set up,  Not sure about that H. They couldnt keep clean sheets and thats not a definition of being well set up.

They conceded the following goals

67 in 15/16
67 in 16/17
61 in 17/18
56 in 18/19
65 in 19/20
		
Click to expand...

By the same token they must have won enough to stay up for four years. Only a point of Villa and a better goal difference when they went down. The point is they knew their limitations and played within those. I think Howe knew the defence were leaky but on limited resources who are you going to bring in and want to go to a club like that. A ninth and twelfth place finishes shows he could get them playing decent and organised football to achieve those finishes. I think like a lot of promoted sides, if they stay up after the first year and aren't making signings to keep developing they get found out tactically which ultimately is what happened


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## pauljames87 (Apr 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Well set up,  Not sure about that H. They couldnt keep clean sheets and thats not a definition of being well set up.

They conceded the following goals

67 in 15/16
67 in 16/17
61 in 17/18
56 in 18/19
65 in 19/20
		
Click to expand...


Howe is awful.

Good going forward poor at back

Reminds me of bilic in the sense former defender who can't set up a defence


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## Billysboots (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			As a Utd fan, personally I WOULD accept a period of rebuild.

Watching Utd this season has been horrific, unless we play against Leeds. The players find it impossible to control a game against anyone, it is frightening. As someone already pointed out, I am shocked Utd are even as high as they are in the league. Once ten Hag comes in, I will be more interested in his approach to build things up. I certainly won't expect Utd to come flying out of the traps, playing beautiful football and directly challenging for the title. Not even close to expecting that.

Utd will be losing quite a few players anyway due to contracts running out. He'll need to find out which remaining players have a chance of being part of a successful rebuild, and the ones that are either broken beyond repair, or whose attitude isn't right. And get rid. Then find the players to bring in. It seems that a lot more needs to change than just the manager. The coaching set-up probably needs a complete change, and the scouting.

The worry is that ten Hag comes in, but everything else behind the scenes remains broken and he really does have the impossible job.
		
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I very much hope, and indeed suspect, that ten Hag has been very clear in his expectations before he put pen to paper. The constant revolving door of managers is a waste of time - it’s the structure of the club which needs to change, something the allegedly clueless Gary Neville has been saying for years.

Ten Hag strikes me as a man who knows his own mind, and one who has a very clear philosophy about how he wants the game to be played. But far more importantly, the suggestion is that he is a man who does not suffer fools. I doubt very much that he would have taken the job unless the club has committed to change. In that respect, my view is that the movement of Rangnick to a consultancy role, combined with the appointment of a young, modern coach is perhaps the most positive change the club has made in over a decade. We shall see.

As for being given time, I would far rather suffer a couple of seasons of average results, providing there is evidence of a structure and style on the pitch, and performances themselves start to improve. Albeit with the occasional great performance thrown in, the last few years have largely been dross. 

I have said it many times, but I do not go to football matches, paying good money for the privilege, only to feel my anger, and with it my blood pressure, go through the roof. United are a truly awful watch these days - no joy about anything they do, on or off the pitch. I want the club to make me smile again, and to look forward to my drive down the Chester Road.

If that takes time, I’m willing to wait.


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## Foxholer (Apr 21, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I very much hope, and indeed suspect, that ten Hag has been very clear in his expectations before he put pen to paper. The constant revolving door of managers is a waste of time - it’s the structure of the club which needs to change, something the allegedly clueless Gary Neville has been saying for years.

Ten Hag strikes me as a man who knows his own mind, and one who has a very clear philosophy about how he wants the game to be played. But far more importantly, the suggestion is that he is a man who does not suffer fools. I doubt very much that he would have taken the job unless the club has committed to change. In that respect, my view is that the movement of Rangnick to a consultancy role, combined with the appointment of a young, modern coach is perhaps the most positive change the club has made in over a decade. We shall see.

As for being given time, I would far rather suffer a couple of seasons of average results, providing there is evidence of a structure and style on the pitch, and performances themselves start to improve. Albeit with the occasional great performance thrown in, the last few years have largely been dross.

I have said it many times, but I do not go to football matches, paying good money for the privilege, only to feel my anger, and with it my blood pressure, go through the roof. United are a truly awful watch these days - no joy about anything they do, on or off the pitch. I want the club to make me smile again, and to look forward to my drive down the Chester Road.

If that takes time, I’m willing to wait.
		
Click to expand...

The biggest possible barrier I see is the influence Ferguson might have.
Serarately, since Ferguson, United have only really had 1 (or maybe 2) actual top level big club Managers, and the Man U experience hasn't been great for them.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Did the "....." not give it away a bit that I was taking the mick!?
		
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That auld chestnut 🤣🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			That auld chestnut 🤣🤣🤣
		
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It is probably worth learning to interpret the context of a post before taking things too seriously, and then trying to take the out of context statement to try and make a point. Because, when the context is actually explained (as if it had to to most people!?), it doesn't really support you initial point at all.

Even if I was the most biased Man Utd fan on earth, I still couldn't seriously be deluded enough to think United's current squad is best in PL history, better than the 1998/99 squad, or the squad with Rooney / Tevez / Ronaldo as the front 3. And, if you genuinely thought I was making a serious point at the time, I have no doubt you and many others would have challenged me on it immediately. You didn't, so I'm pretty sure you knew I wasn't being serious at all


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm a United fan and Ole embarrasses me.

United's squad, in my opinion, is not far off the best squad in history of PL (despite no Roy Keane leadership). But, excuses are continually made for Ole. Weak defensive midfield, not Ole's fault.

I've never really watched a top.side and thought they've the perfect player in ever position. The best teams have several great player, leaders, workers and a great manager to.get them playing to.full potential. Pepe or Klopp, I'm fairly confident they'd win many trophies with this Utd team. Ole looks for his players to inspire him.

All I can hope for is Ole proves me wrong. But he has done nothing to make me think that is a realistic dream.
		
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Hey @Swango1980  here's your actual post.

I read it a dozen times when you posted and couldnt see the joke in it, so i've took it exactly how you've written it.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It is probably worth learning to interpret the context of a post before taking things too seriously, and then trying to take the out of context statement to try and make a point. Because, when the context is actually explained (as if it had to to most people!?), it doesn't really support you initial point at all.

Even if I was the most biased Man Utd fan on earth, I still couldn't seriously be deluded enough to think United's current squad is best in PL history, better than the 1998/99 squad, or the squad with Rooney / Tevez / Ronaldo as the front 3. *And, if you genuinely thought I was making a serious point at the time, I have no doubt you and many others would have challenged me on it immediately. You didn't, so I'm pretty sure you knew I wasn't being serious at all*

Click to expand...

I dont like to challenge everything i disagree with, i'm not like Liverpoolphil 😉

My rule of thumb is if there's a smiley on the post then that represents there's a modicum of humour to it. 

Yours seemed to be, in your own words "your opinion". 

Own it and accept you got a little bit too excited when Ronaldo came back.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Hey @Swango1980  here's your actual post.

I read it a dozen times when you posted and couldnt see the joke in it, so i've took it exactly how you've written it.
		
Click to expand...

Well found (back on Page 762), must have taken a while. It also helps ME put into context why I said that, back in Sep 21 (I assumed you were referring to a post further into the season, rather than near the very start). Sure, close to the best PL in Premier League history was probably overstating my point, although the point I was making was, on paper at the time, we had great talent. We finished second the year before, and with the additions we had, felt we should be challenging at the top against two of the other teams who'd consider themselves amongst the best. That was my opinion at the time, and I was using it to vent my frustration at Ole (who most would agree, probably not the best manager in the world). 

However, once RR arrived, it has now become blindingly obvious what a let down these players are. I never predicted that the likes of Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Bruno, Rashford and many others would experience horrific losses of form and confidence, that Greenwood would do what he supposedly did and that pretty much all the players would simply give up, and not bother running. Now, maybe they just cannot pick themselves up for RR either (no excuse) and they'd be a killer team under Klopp or Pep, but I will no longer give them that amount of credit. Not even close. There may be a lot of rubbish going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, I just can't get my head around the fact a whole team of players seem completely disinterested

So yes, fair enough, it very much looks like I was wrong about this squad of players. Although, to be fair, I have not held back since that post, and have now been immensely critical of the same squad of players. A fairly similar squad who could suddenly play good football when Ole first arrived simply because it looked like they could be bothered, then gave up when he signed his permanent deal, had intermittent decent performances for a while, and then have become the utter embarrassment that they are now. It probably highlights well that talent (which they've pretty much all shown in the past) goes absolutely nowhere if the mentality is poor.

P.S. I was excited when Ronaldo came back, his debut was possibly one of the most exciting times I've had as a Utd fan, and I'm glad he did as him and DeGea are about the only good highlights to come from this season.


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## Foxholer (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			...
...DeGea are about the only good highlights to come from this season.
		
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I'm always a bit torn when admiring G'keepers so highly. It so often reflects badly on the rest of the team - agreed, Ronaldo aside. Great to see occasional feats of brilliance; just not having to see it constantly! 
Peter Schmeichel (ex step-son's hero) certainly didn't hold back if he felt the guys ahead of him had underperformed to put his goal in jeapardy!


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## nickjdavis (Apr 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yep, fair enough - throwing 90 million quid at the problem certainly did the job. Howe will probably be decent for them from now on, since he won't need to coach them how to defend - just buy better defenders. 

Click to expand...

Sorry but the 90 million "reason" doesn't wash and is an oversimplification peddled by many folks who now see their desire to see Newcastle relegated being ripped asunder. 

To dismiss the achievement as being purely down to money, simply glosses over what has actually been achieved by Howe, his staff and the team. Trippier only started 4 games before being injured on the 13th Feb and hasn't played since.  Guimaraes had 5 late sub appearances before actually starting his first game on the 10th March.

Joelinton has been resurrected as a player by Howe, the team now plays with a cohesive purpose, a sense of desire and ambition which is now mirrored in the stands. The team now displays guts and commitment. Money doesn't buy that.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 21, 2022)

Sky reporting that Harry McGuire has received a bomb threat to his house. Guess this backs up the earlier posts about morons and scumbags following football clubs.


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## Orikoru (Apr 21, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I'm always a bit torn when admiring G'keepers so highly. It so often reflects badly on the rest of the team - agreed, Ronaldo aside. Great to see occasional feats of brilliance; just not having to see it constantly! 
Peter Schmeichel (ex step-son's hero) certainly didn't hold back if he felt the guys ahead of him had underperformed to put his goal in jeapardy!
		
Click to expand...

Correct. Good though he is it's the sort of stats that normally make a someone look like a decent shotstopper at the bottom end of the table.

https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepers/Premier-League-Stats - just went here and sorted by 'shots on target against'. United 4th highest! Only below Leeds, Norwich & Brentford. Says it all.


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## nickjdavis (Apr 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I thought Bruno was more of an attacker/number 10, so I just meant get a couple of holding players in behind him.
		
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Actually....he was bought as a defensive midfielder which is how he played for Lyon.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



*Well found (back on Page 762), must have taken a while*. It also helps ME put into context why I said that, back in Sep 21 (I assumed you were referring to a post further into the season, rather than near the very start). Sure, close to the best PL in Premier League history was probably overstating my point, although the point I was making was, on paper at the time, we had great talent. We finished second the year before, and with the additions we had, felt we should be challenging at the top against two of the other teams who'd consider themselves amongst the best. That was my opinion at the time, and I was using it to vent my frustration at Ole (who most would agree, probably not the best manager in the world).

However, once RR arrived, it has now become blindingly obvious what a let down these players are. I never predicted that the likes of Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Bruno, Rashford and many others would experience horrific losses of form and confidence, that Greenwood would do what he supposedly did and that pretty much all the players would simply give up, and not bother running. *Now, maybe they just cannot pick themselves up for RR either (no excuse) and they'd be a killer team under Klopp or Pep, but I will no longer give them that amount of credit.* Not even close. There may be a lot of rubbish going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, I just can't get my head around the fact a whole team of players seem completely disinterested

So yes, fair enough, it very much looks like I was wrong about this squad of players. Although, to be fair, I have not held back since that post, and have now been immensely critical of the same squad of players. A fairly similar squad who could suddenly play good football when Ole first arrived simply because it looked like they could be bothered, then gave up when he signed his permanent deal, had intermittent decent performances for a while, and then have become the utter embarrassment that they are now. It probably highlights well that talent (which they've pretty much all shown in the past) goes absolutely nowhere if the mentality is poor.

P.S. I was excited when Ronaldo came back, his debut was possibly one of the most exciting times I've had as a Utd fan, and I'm glad he did as him and DeGea are about the only good highlights to come from this season.
		
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About 2minutes actually. Raspers like that stay in the memory bank🤣🤣

You said what you did because you 100% believed it. We all have blind faith in our clubs at times, you're not alone. Though some of us arent as deluded as you😉

I dont think they'd be much better under Pep or Klopp. They still wouldnt break into the current  top 3 because theyre not as good as people think. The perception is they play for yernited they must be great players, they're not. 

Remember, form is temporary, class is permanent.

EtH  has got an enormous job on his hands, it doesnt matter how much gets spent, he needs 3yrs minimum in that job.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I'm always a bit torn when admiring G'keepers so highly. It so often reflects badly on the rest of the team - agreed, Ronaldo aside. Great to see occasional feats of brilliance; just not having to see it constantly! 
Peter Schmeichel (ex step-son's hero) certainly didn't hold back if he felt the guys ahead of him had underperformed to put his goal in jeapardy!
		
Click to expand...

Agreed to a point, yes. Some lower team goalkeepers often get a lot of praise, but they often get a lot of practice, and a lot of opportunities to shine. Doesn't mean they'd be a great keeper in a top of the league side.

However, I can only praise DeGea for what he has had to do this season. He is certainly no Peter Schmeichel though. He'd have torn the defenders to shreds a long time ago.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			About 2minutes actually. Raspers like that stay in the memory bank🤣🤣

You said what you did because you 100% believed it. We all have blind faith in our clubs at times, you're not alone. Though some of us arent as deluded as you😉

I dont think they'd be much better under Pep or Klopp. They still wouldnt break into the current  top 3 because theyre not as good as people think. The perception is they play for yernited they must be great players, they're not. 

Remember, form is temporary, class is permanent.

EtH  has got an enormous job on his hands, it doesnt matter how much gets spent, he needs 3yrs minimum in that job.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with your final points. And, now that we have removed the Ole equation, the players have been left exposed as to what they are.

I certainly don't have blind faith, I have been as about as scathing towards them for a long time. However, many of the players have shown glimpses of quality in the past. Maguire was never anywhere near VVD, but showed good performances before Utd, and for England. Even the Utd team had put on great performances when their confidence and effort levels were high. They are not fighting for anything now, and Maguire and Bruno pretty much admitted it. I never believed a group footballers could be so unprofessional or weak minded. Maybe just the odd individual. Looks like I was very wrong about that.

3 years minimum, yes. Even if all goes well, could be more. First year to generally get rid of the weeds and see what we end up with. Second to bring in more fresh players to compensate for our most weak areas. Third the same, and build confidence. But, can't see us competing then unless Liverpool and City have declined. 

You never know though, next September I may think we have the greatest ever squad, especially if we sign Danny Welbeck


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



*As a Utd fan, personally I WOULD accept a period of rebuild.*

Watching Utd this season has been horrific, unless we play against Leeds. The players find it impossible to control a game against anyone, it is frightening. As someone already pointed out, I am shocked Utd are even as high as they are in the league. Once ten Hag comes in, I will be more interested in his approach to build things up. I certainly won't expect Utd to come flying out of the traps, playing beautiful football and directly challenging for the title. Not even close to expecting that.

Utd will be losing quite a few players anyway due to contracts running out. He'll need to find out which remaining players have a chance of being part of a successful rebuild, and the ones that are either broken beyond repair, or whose attitude isn't right. And get rid. Then find the players to bring in. It seems that a lot more needs to change than just the manager. The coaching set-up probably needs a complete change, and the scouting.

The worry is that ten Hag comes in, but everything else behind the scenes remains broken and he really does have the impossible job.
		
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wtf have they been doing for the last decade and spending just under a £1bn in the process ?


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## Billysboots (Apr 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			wtf have they been doing for the last decade and spending just under a £1bn in the process ?
		
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Spending money doesn’t equate to rebuilding, Phil. It equates to spending money. A rebuild needs a cohesive plan as to where the entire club is heading.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I agree with your final points. And, now that we have removed the Ole equation, *the players have been left exposed as to what they are.*

I certainly don't have blind faith, I have been as about as scathing towards them for a long time. However, many of the players have shown glimpses of quality in the past. Maguire was never anywhere near VVD, but showed good performances before Utd, and for England. Even the Utd team had put on great performances when their confidence and effort levels were high. They are not fighting for anything now, and Maguire and Bruno pretty much admitted it. I never believed a group footballers could be so unprofessional or weak minded. Maybe just the odd individual. Looks like I was very wrong about that.

3 years minimum, yes. Even if all goes well, could be more. First year to generally get rid of the weeds and see what we end up with. Second to bring in more fresh players to compensate for our most weak areas. Third the same, and build confidence. But, can't see us competing then unless Liverpool and City have declined.

You never know though, next September I may think we have the greatest ever squad, especially if we sign Danny Welbeck 

Click to expand...

Its amazing what changes in 6 months🤣🤣

For me Maguire is overrated. His level is Leicester and thats with no disrespect. 

Lingard showed his level too at West ham again with no disrespect.

McTominay couldn't lace Henderson's boots and im not Henderson's biggest fan but i appreciate what he gives.

Fernandes is a MOTD show pony.

Dont worry about catching us or City, if City keep buying the way they do the PL will become the same as the Bundesliga.

It takes a lot more than 1 year to get rid of the weeds. Whose buying them at any sort of decent money?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			wtf have they been doing for the last decade and spending just under a £1bn in the process ?
		
Click to expand...

Rebuilding. Its akin to trying to fit a roof in a rainstorm but hey ho


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Spending money doesn’t equate to rebuilding, Phil. It equates to spending money. A rebuild needs a cohesive plan as to where the entire club is heading.
		
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Surely you spend money to rebuild a club - they got rid of lots of players , brought loads in to rebuild a team ? 

It’s a rebuild - and it’s gone on for a decade now so far - bringing in Den Haag is the start of another rebuild


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			wtf have they been doing for the last decade and spending just under a £1bn in the process ?
		
Click to expand...

The question was would United fans accept a period to rebuild the side. I'm assuming in comparison to the alternative to almost instant success and beautiful football.

So, my answer was I would accept a period to rebuild. Surely that seems a fairly understandable answer? I didn't say it would be a successful rebuild, just like the last 10 years. I simply said I would be happy to give it a chance, and hope we see some good solid progress within 2 to 3 years.


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## Billysboots (Apr 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely you spend money to rebuild a club - they got rid of lots of players , brought loads in to rebuild a team ? 

It’s a rebuild - and it’s gone on for a decade now so far - bringing in Den Haag is the start of another rebuild
		
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You can only rebuild a house successfully if you have solid foundations. United’s foundations started to crumble before Ferguson left and have been largely ignored ever since. What they have been doing for over a decade is throwing money at the problem, not rebuilding.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well found (back on Page 762), must have taken a while. It also helps ME put into context why I said that, back in Sep 21 (I assumed you were referring to a post further into the season, rather than near the very start). Sure, close to the best PL in Premier League history was probably overstating my point, although the point I was making was, on paper at the time, we had great talent. We finished second the year before, and with the additions we had, felt we should be challenging at the top against two of the other teams who'd consider themselves amongst the best. That was my opinion at the time, and I was using it to vent my frustration at Ole (who most would agree, probably not the best manager in the world).

However, once RR arrived, it has now become blindingly obvious what a let down these players are. I never predicted that the likes of Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Bruno, Rashford and many others would experience horrific losses of form and confidence, that Greenwood would do what he supposedly did and that pretty much all the players would simply give up, and not bother running. Now, maybe they just cannot pick themselves up for RR either (no excuse) and they'd be a killer team under Klopp or Pep, but I will no longer give them that amount of credit. Not even close. There may be a lot of rubbish going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, I just can't get my head around the fact a whole team of players seem completely disinterested

So yes, fair enough, it very much looks like I was wrong about this squad of players. Although, to be fair, I have not held back since that post, and have now been immensely critical of the same squad of players. A fairly similar squad who could suddenly play good football when Ole first arrived simply because it looked like they could be bothered, then gave up when he signed his permanent deal, had intermittent decent performances for a while, and then have become the utter embarrassment that they are now. It probably highlights well that talent (which they've pretty much all shown in the past) goes absolutely nowhere if the mentality is poor.

P.S. I was excited when Ronaldo came back, his debut was possibly one of the most exciting times I've had as a Utd fan, and I'm glad he did as him and DeGea are about the only good highlights to come from this season.
		
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Beep, beep, beep.....opinion reversing......beep,beeep,beeeeeeepppppppp

As stuey said we've all been guilty of pre or early season optimism. Our fans felt for years that a certain 1 or 2 signings were the final pieces of the jigsaw and despite it being peddled every year by man U fans we didnt often say "this is our year".

Lets face it a good number of you thought:-

Varane and mcGuire will be our great partnership for the next 4-5 years
AWB is the best right back in the league
We have a great defence.....probably the best. 
Ronaldo will get 40-50 goals
Sancho will get 15-25 and set up the same
Bruno will score and assist even more than he had already
Pogba will finally turn the 1 in 10 form into 8 in 10
Henderson/De gea will spur each other on

Whereas

Varane seems AWOL, Mcguire is on the MOTD highlights every week but for bad reasons
AWB, now stands for Any (W)One But in a lot of man U fans eyes now
Great defence - how is that goal difference going?
Ronaldo has held his own up at times, but have United lost even more with him in the team?
Sancho - frozen out virtually, played out of position. I would definitely not write him off, but he needs to be picked back off, dusted off then go again next season.
Bruno - I dont think the stats was his true self in his first year due to the unbelievable amount of pens you got. The last 6 months are also not a true reflection of him, but he needs to be more consistent again and stop the childish strop body language and get on with his game.
Pogba - best rid.
I think man u are at a crossroads with regards to their keeper.

As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they're punched in the face.

Man u should have had more than enough to finish above Spurs, Arsenal and West ham, and if half of the optimistic points above would have happened been in and around Chelsea, but when a few things have gone wrong, the lack of leadership, togetherness and bloody well fight has seen even more go wrong, than less.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 21, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Sky reporting that Harry McGuire has received a bomb threat to his house. Guess this backs up the earlier posts about morons and scumbags following football clubs.
		
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May have been England fans.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 21, 2022)

SKY BREAKING NEWS … 
Manchester United can confirm that following a scan - Paul Pogba has suffered a badly twisted sock and will miss the rest of the season. 
He may fly out to Dubai or the USA to get it ironed out.


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## Billysboots (Apr 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			SKY BREAKING NEWS … 
Manchester United can confirm that following a scan - Paul Pogba has suffered a badly twisted sock and will miss the rest of the season. 
He may fly out to Dubai or the USA to get it ironed out.
		
Click to expand...

😂

In all seriousness, it wouldn’t bother me if he never pulled on a United shirt again.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Beep, beep, beep.....opinion reversing......beep,beeep,beeeeeeepppppppp

As stuey said we've all been guilty of pre or early season optimism. Our fans felt for years that a certain 1 or 2 signings were the final pieces of the jigsaw and despite it being peddled every year by man U fans we didnt often say "this is our year".

Lets face it a good number of you thought:-

Varane and mcGuire will be our great partnership for the next 4-5 years
AWB is the best right back in the league
We have a great defence.....probably the best. 
Ronaldo will get 40-50 goals
Sancho will get 15-25 and set up the same
Bruno will score and assist even more than he had already
Pogba will finally turn the 1 in 10 form into 8 in 10
Henderson/De gea will spur each other on

Whereas

Varane seems AWOL, Mcguire is on the MOTD highlights every week but for bad reasons
AWB, now stands for Any (W)One But in a lot of man U fans eyes now
Great defence - how is that goal difference going?
Ronaldo has held his own up at times, but have United lost even more with him in the team?
Sancho - frozen out virtually, played out of position. I would definitely not write him off, but he needs to be picked back off, dusted off then go again next season.
Bruno - I dont think the stats was his true self in his first year due to the unbelievable amount of pens you got. The last 6 months are also not a true reflection of him, but he needs to be more consistent again and stop the childish strop body language and get on with his game.
Pogba - best rid.
I think man u are at a crossroads with regards to their keeper.

As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they're punched in the face.

Man u should have had more than enough to finish above Spurs, Arsenal and West ham, and if half of the optimistic points above would have happened been in and around Chelsea, but when a few things have gone wrong, the lack of leadership, togetherness and bloody well fight has seen even more go wrong, than less.
		
Click to expand...

The first sentence in your last paragraph sums up my logic at the start of the season, and the following sums up reasons why it went tits up. We should have been better, much better. But, we weren't. I don't think anyone could have predicted the Utd players would effectively lose all interest. Obviously there are some you'd expect it off more than others, but you'd hope the club and management could find ways to motivate them, or get rid. Not happened sadly.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 21, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			😂

In all seriousness, it wouldn’t bother me if he never pulled on a United shirt again.
		
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I'm with you on that.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 21, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			😂

In all seriousness, it wouldn’t bother me if he never pulled on a United shirt again.
		
Click to expand...

Back in the olden days when City used to get battered by Utd twice a year, three times if we drew them in a cup. I dreamed of watching football that fergies teams used to play.The Thai guy turned up and then the Arabs. As they say the rest is history.  It has taken time. The last 10 years plus has been fantastic. Everyone looks at the money City has spent. What they don’t see is the people that are running the club. And I don’t mean Sheik Mansoor. The day to day running of the club. They were brought in from Barca and have been fantastic. I don’t feel Utd have those people doing the same at Utd. That needs sorting before another penny has been spent. Another thing about City is the academy, it is churning our some very good players making decent money for City.
yet going back years remember the young uns that carried Utd to a title.
The next couple of years are going to be interesting at Utd. Patience May well be the word. That said I think a big problem short term is not qualifying for the champs league May well cost utd in missing out on transfer targets. Ronaldos situation will be interesting, can he be persuaded to stay. My first task as new manager would be making sure Pogba never set foot through the door again.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 21, 2022)

Watching the Burnley v Southampton match and they've had a break in the match so that those players who are observing Ramadan can take on some calories after fasting from sunrise to sunset. I've no problem with that as an idea but the break is after 40 minutes of the first half. Would it have made that much of a difference for them to wait for 5 minutes until half time? I could understand it if the break had been after 20 or 25 minutes but just seems a bit strange with only 5 minutes left to play in the half.


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## fundy (Apr 21, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Beep, beep, beep.....opinion reversing......beep,beeep,beeeeeeepppppppp

As stuey said we've all been guilty of pre or early season optimism. Our fans felt for years that a certain 1 or 2 signings were the final pieces of the jigsaw and despite it being peddled every year by man U fans we didnt often say "this is our year".

Lets face it a good number of you thought:-

Varane and mcGuire will be our great partnership for the next 4-5 years
AWB is the best right back in the league
We have a great defence.....probably the best. 
Ronaldo will get 40-50 goals
Sancho will get 15-25 and set up the same
Bruno will score and assist even more than he had already
Pogba will finally turn the 1 in 10 form into 8 in 10
Henderson/De gea will spur each other on

Whereas

Varane seems AWOL, Mcguire is on the MOTD highlights every week but for bad reasons
AWB, now stands for Any (W)One But in a lot of man U fans eyes now
Great defence - how is that goal difference going?
Ronaldo has held his own up at times, but have United lost even more with him in the team?
Sancho - frozen out virtually, played out of position. I would definitely not write him off, but he needs to be picked back off, dusted off then go again next season.
Bruno - I dont think the stats was his true self in his first year due to the unbelievable amount of pens you got. The last 6 months are also not a true reflection of him, but he needs to be more consistent again and stop the childish strop body language and get on with his game.
Pogba - best rid.
I think man u are at a crossroads with regards to their keeper.

As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they're punched in the face.

Man u should have had more than enough to finish above Spurs, Arsenal and West ham, and if half of the optimistic points above would have happened been in and around Chelsea, but when a few things have gone wrong, the lack of leadership, togetherness and bloody well fight has seen even more go wrong, than less.
		
Click to expand...


Its like Liverpool fans have forgotten their time in the wilderness, youd have thought if any set of fans would understand....................


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## Tashyboy (Apr 21, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Watching the Burnley v Southampton match and they've had a break in the match so that those players who are observing Ramadan can take on some calories after fasting from sunrise to sunset. I've no problem with that as an idea but the break is after 40 minutes of the first half. Would it have made that much of a difference for them to wait for 5 minutes until half time? I could understand it if the break had been after 20 or 25 minutes but just seems a bit strange with only 5 minutes left to play in the half.
		
Click to expand...

Am sure I read something the other day where this was done for the first time on the continent over the weekend.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its like Liverpool fans have forgotten their time in the wilderness, youd have thought if any set of fans would understand.................... 

Click to expand...

Yet they wonder why the country Unites in their hatred of them


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Yet they wonder why the country Unites in their hatred of them
		
Click to expand...

There is always someone who wants to drag it down a level - strange that it seems to be you a lot 🙄

If anyone “hates” someone because of who they support that says more about their level of bitterness more than anything else


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## Junior (Apr 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			wtf have they been doing for the last decade and spending just under a £1bn in the process ?
		
Click to expand...

This has been the essence of the problem.  Trying to rebuild by buying several so called "superstars" is not the way to do it.  Di Maria, Sanchez, Lukaku, Maguire, Pogba, AWB etc etc.  .

What RR (when he goes upstairs) and TH have to do is look at the culture of the squad.  Get rid of the arrogance and  sign players on character who will play for the shirt.  Hopefully they can get rid of the bad eggs who are poisoning the club.

As a fan, it made me so angry listening to Bruno and Lingaard after the Liverpool match saying that they had nothing to play for now this season and that it was a free game as no one expected us to win.  Yeah, no one expected us to win but at least so some passion for the shirt you're wearing.


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## adam6177 (Apr 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Yet they wonder why the country Unites in their hatred of them
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha I'll give you a clue... All this chat about man United isn't because the country like them. It's because we're all enjoying giving them what they dished out to everyone else whilst they were on top.... A long long time ago it seems. Long may that continue.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2022)

Junior said:



			This has been the essence of the problem.  Trying to rebuild by buying several so called "superstars" is not the way to do it.  Di Maria, Sanchez, Lukaku, Maguire, Pogba, AWB etc etc.  .

What RR (when he goes upstairs) and TH have to do is look at the culture of the squad.  Get rid of the arrogance and  sign players on character who will play for the shirt.  Hopefully they can get rid of the bad eggs who are poisoning the club.

*As a fan, it made me so angry listening to Bruno and Lingaard after the Liverpool match saying that they had nothing to play for now this season and that it was a free game as no one expected us to win.  Yeah, no one expected us to win but at least so some passion for the shirt you're wearing.*

Click to expand...

It was a very strange comment and as a fan must have been livid to hear them say it- there is always the shirt to play for - the badge , and even then they have CL football to play for - could just see Keane and Neville’s face when they said it.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its like Liverpool fans have forgotten their time in the wilderness, youd have thought if any set of fans would understand.................... 

Click to expand...

I remember last season when one of them forgot his log in details on here when “operation unbearable” didn’t go to plan.


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## Junior (Apr 21, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Beep, beep, beep.....opinion reversing......beep,beeep,beeeeeeepppppppp

As stuey said we've all been guilty of pre or early season optimism. Our fans felt for years that a certain 1 or 2 signings were the final pieces of the jigsaw and despite it being peddled every year by man U fans we didnt often say "this is our year".

Lets face it a good number of you thought:-

Varane and mcGuire will be our great partnership for the next 4-5 years
AWB is the best right back in the league
We have a great defence.....probably the best. 
Ronaldo will get 40-50 goals
Sancho will get 15-25 and set up the same
Bruno will score and assist even more than he had already
Pogba will finally turn the 1 in 10 form into 8 in 10
Henderson/De gea will spur each other on

Whereas

Varane seems AWOL, Mcguire is on the MOTD highlights every week but for bad reasons
AWB, now stands for Any (W)One But in a lot of man U fans eyes now
Great defence - how is that goal difference going?
Ronaldo has held his own up at times, but have United lost even more with him in the team?
Sancho - frozen out virtually, played out of position. I would definitely not write him off, but he needs to be picked back off, dusted off then go again next season.
Bruno - I dont think the stats was his true self in his first year due to the unbelievable amount of pens you got. The last 6 months are also not a true reflection of him, but he needs to be more consistent again and stop the childish strop body language and get on with his game.
Pogba - best rid.
I think man u are at a crossroads with regards to their keeper.

As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they're punched in the face.

Man u should have had more than enough to finish above Spurs, Arsenal and West ham, and if half of the optimistic points above would have happened been in and around Chelsea, but when a few things have gone wrong, the lack of leadership, togetherness and bloody well fight has seen even more go wrong, than less.
		
Click to expand...

DeGea, Varane , Bailly , Telles, Dalot (even Shaw?) I would keep.  Agree with Sancho but the rest needs a shake up.  Fernandes when he first signed was immense and carried us to top 4 on his own, so I'd keep him as well in the hope that without Pogba he can come to the fore again.


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## Foxholer (Apr 21, 2022)

So much of managing top sides is about motivation - and that seems to be what is lacking in ManU curently. They don't seem to be prepared to 'fight for the shirt'. I don't see it improving - possibly getting worse even - until the 'new' manager arrives and that's a long time in Football terms!


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## pauljames87 (Apr 21, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Ha ha I'll give you a clue... All this chat about man United isn't because the country like them. It's because we're all enjoying giving them what they dished out to everyone else whilst they were on top.... A long long time ago it seems. Long may that continue.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair ask majority of fans up and down the country whilst United fans were annoying .. Liverpool fans are unbearable. Great city, great team, beautiful football, manager who is a character.. just switch the fans .


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its like Liverpool fans have forgotten their time in the wilderness, youd have thought if any set of fans would understand.................... 

Click to expand...

Exactly, we can see the signs.

That said, 100% of clubs would kill for our wilderness years 4  league cups, 3 FA cups, 1 UEFA and 2 European cups compared to what in man U, Chelsea, City and even Arsenal's poor decades.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 21, 2022)

Junior said:



			DeGea, Varane , Bailly , Telles, Dalot (even Shaw?) I would keep.  Agree with Sancho but the rest needs a shake up.  Fernandes when he first signed was immense and carried us to top 4 on his own, so I'd keep him as well in the hope that without Pogba he can come to the fore again.
		
Click to expand...

You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and identifying who to get rid of, who to give a 2nd (3rd) chance to and who to keep is going to be a hard task. Who out of the current crop, or coming through may suit a certain formation and who wont.

2 of the biggest cliches (and my pet hates) are "just throw the kids in they can't do any worse" and "I'm willing to go down (or finish mid table) for a bit to rebuild".

Maybe ok for Everton, Leeds, Newcastle but not for a United or a Liverpool. The media glare and fan reaction just wont cut it, even though a lot say they will be patient enough, whereas when it comes down to it they wont. Ok, in the bad years they wont expect instant success, but expect a modicum of it, or finishing 2nd or 3rd is expected after 2-3 years. Its in our DNA as a club and a fan base, for us and you, mate.

City and Liverpool playing other-worldly football only makes it harder to bear and the gap seem even worse. God knows what we would be like if it was United and Everton getting 95+ points totals and winning trophies together if we were on a down turn.

Man U have always had the biggest profile in British football, normally always paid the top wages, had the marquee signings, biggest ground etc etc, but with that comes the downsides when it goes t### up. You can't escape social media, the players get criticism 24/7, former players in the media hark back to happier times and slag off the current bunch..... etc

Our media profile is only second to yours, but we get a little bit more grace. Our fans also dont expect marquee signings and dont laud our players as Gods as much as your fan base do, I feel. We elevate our managers above all players and always have done, and it may be why even Evans, Houllier, Rodgers, benitez were all given 3-5 years in the main to get our Holy Grail again. I dont think your fan base will give that time whilst us and City are at the top, unless its a former player.

Start signing players based on character, will to win and ability rather than twitter followers, shirt sales and marketing ability would be a massive way forward.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its like Liverpool fans have forgotten their time in the wilderness, youd have thought if any set of fans would understand.................... 

Click to expand...

If only i could forget the Hodgson months☹️


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Yet they wonder why the country Unites in their hatred of them
		
Click to expand...

Hahaha Knowing beauts like you makes it even more sweeter when we're successful. The cherry on the cake.


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## Junior (Apr 21, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and identifying who to get rid of, who to give a 2nd (3rd) chance to and who to keep is going to be a hard task. Who out of the current crop, or coming through may suit a certain formation and who wont.

2 of the biggest cliches (and my pet hates) are "just throw the kids in they can't do any worse" and "I'm willing to go down (or finish mid table) for a bit to rebuild".

Maybe ok for Everton, Leeds, Newcastle but not for a United or a Liverpool. The media glare and fan reaction just wont cut it, even though a lot say they will be patient enough, whereas when it comes down to it they wont. Ok, in the bad years they wont expect instant success, but expect a modicum of it, or finishing 2nd or 3rd is expected after 2-3 years. Its in our DNA as a club and a fan base, for us and you, mate.

City and Liverpool playing other-worldly football only makes it harder to bear and the gap seem even worse. God knows what we would be like if it was United and Everton getting 95+ points totals and winning trophies together if we were on a down turn.

Man U have always had the biggest profile in British football, normally always paid the top wages, had the marquee signings, biggest ground etc etc, but with that comes the downsides when it goes t### up. You can't escape social media, the players get criticism 24/7, former players in the media hark back to happier times and slag off the current bunch..... etc

Our media profile is only second to yours, but we get a little bit more grace. Our fans also dont expect marquee signings and dont laud our players as Gods as much as your fan base do, I feel. We elevate our managers above all players and always have done, and it may be why even Evans, Houllier, Rodgers, benitez were all given 3-5 years in the main to get our Holy Grail again. I dont think your fan base will give that time whilst us and City are at the top, unless its a former player.

Start signing players based on character, will to win and ability rather than twitter followers, shirt sales and marketing ability would be a massive way forward.
		
Click to expand...

Agree, you need a balance and bringing through young players is one thing, but a Phil Foden doesn't come along very often.   You need a core of senior players who lead by example and not by tik tok dances.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 21, 2022)

Junior said:



			Agree, you need a balance and bringing through young players is one thing, but a Phil Foden doesn't come along very often.   You need a core of senior players who lead by example and not by tik tok dances.
		
Click to expand...

Re Foden, it was like buses. 2 came along together. Him and Sancho. They really were like two peas in a pod. Both were offered a similar contract. Foden stayed and Sancho decided to move on.He wanted more brass for being a fringe player. He went onto Dortmund and had a fantastic career there. Foden stayed and learned his trade with both Silvas, KDB, Aguero etc etc. There were times when Sancho was on fire and folk questioned why Foden was happy being a fringe player. Pep did to Foden what Fegison did to some of his young players, he protected them. Now Foden is on fire and Sancho is going backwards. Sancho needs a manager who is going to tell him exactly what he wants and what system he is going to play and expect from him. I don’t think Utd have had a manager for 10 years that has helped to develop a young player. Rashford being a classic example


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## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2022)

Junior said:



			Agree, you need a balance and bringing through young players is one thing, but a Phil Foden doesn't come along very often.   You need a core of senior players who lead by example and *not by tik tok dances*.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣


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## Swingalot (Apr 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			To be fair ask majority of fans up and down the country whilst United fans were annoying .. Liverpool fans are unbearable. Great city, great team, beautiful football, manager who is a character.. just switch the fans .
		
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree with this. Whoever is at the top is always shot at in football, that's just life, but I'm.enjoying Uniteds struggles far more than Liverpools when they went through a similar patch... and remember United have a long way to fall before they reach the levels Liverpool went to in regards standard of playing squad. I remember Liverpool signing Jimmy Carter in the 90s and my mate who follows Millwall who they bought him from was so much in shock he actually travelled up to Anfield to watch him on his debut as he would not believe it was the same Jimmy Carter 😀😃

When it comes to arrogance, influencing and intimidating officials, tolerating players who were at times out of control,  attractung and accepting support from all over the south east, spinning stories to distract people from the truth and using money and power to dominate, you will have to do well to persuade me it is not United who I dislike the most of the top sides in this country .


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## chrisd (Apr 21, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Not sure I agree with this. Whoever is at the top is always shot at in football, that's just life, but I'm.enjoying Uniteds struggles far more than Liverpools when they went through a similar patch... and remember United have a long way to fall before they reach the levels Liverpool went to in regards standard of playing squad. I remember Liverpool signing Jimmy Carter in the 90s and my mate who follows Millwall who they bought him from was so much in shock he actually travelled up to Anfield to watch him on his debut as he would not believe it was the same Jimmy Carter 😀😃

When it comes to arrogance, influencing and intimidating officials, tolerating players who were at times out of control,  attractung and accepting support from all over the south east, spinning stories to distract people from the truth and using money and power to dominate, you will have to do well to persuade me it is not United who I dislike the most of the top sides in this country .
		
Click to expand...

I don't need persuading- boy do I dislike United !

( but I think all Eagles fans do )


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## fundy (Apr 21, 2022)

Junior said:



			Agree, you need a balance and bringing through young players is one thing, but a Phil Foden doesn't come along very often.   You need a core of senior players who lead by example and not by tik tok dances.
		
Click to expand...


were just gonna have to rely on the youngsters lol, severe shortage of senior players at our place  last nights XI met the criteria for an U23 side lol


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## 4LEX (Apr 21, 2022)

Man Utd are finished for the foreseeable future because the structure is wrong. From the owners, to the CEO and to the football set up. Darren Fletcher is a total no mark in coaching and development yet was given a job as technical director, that says it all. Rangnick even said he has no idea what he actually does. And this was a recent appointment! The structure is incapable of appointing the right manager, signing the right players or selling the right players when their time is up. Nothing has changed and nothing will change.

Ten Hag is a bad appointment for the following reasons;

He was the cheap option in terms of compensation and wages.

No experience in a decent league. If he'd proven himself in Germany, Italy or Spain you'd say he had the credentials. Winning titles in Holland with Ajax isn't the mark of a world class manager. It's just a huge gamble on someone that has to learn a new league and go head to head with the two greatest managers in the world. Not even including Tuchel or Conte who are world class and proven in major leagues.

He plays a very attacking 433 and Utd won't allow him to sell or sign the players he needs fast enough to play that.

Utd have a side full of egos and wet wipes cultivated by Ole. These are players signed for huge fees and paid about £100k a week over their market value. They'll be impossible to sell so he'll have to manage that type of player but he has no experience of it.

All of that under intense pressure and scrutiny is going to be almost impossible.


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2022)

Interesting article here...https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...en-hag-manchester-united-manager-ajax-comment
My biggest concern for ManU - not that it's actually a concern - would be what's going to be the state of the club when he arrives!


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## GreiginFife (Apr 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			were just gonna have to rely on the youngsters lol, severe shortage of senior players at our place  last nights XI met the criteria for an U23 side lol
		
Click to expand...

That Aubameyang kid at Barcelona is fair banging them in, 9 in 11 now. Could be a decent signing for Arsenal


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## Junior (Apr 22, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Man Utd are finished for the foreseeable future because the structure is wrong. From the owners, to the CEO and to the football set up. Darren Fletcher is a total no mark in coaching and development yet was given a job as technical director, that says it all. Rangnick even said he has no idea what he actually does. And this was a recent appointment! The structure is incapable of appointing the right manager, signing the right players or selling the right players when their time is up. Nothing has changed and nothing will change.

Ten Hag is a bad appointment for the following reasons;

He was the cheap option in terms of compensation and wages.

No experience in a decent league. If he'd proven himself in Germany, Italy or Spain you'd say he had the credentials. Winning titles in Holland with Ajax isn't the mark of a world class manager. It's just a huge gamble on someone that has to learn a new league and go head to head with the two greatest managers in the world. Not even including Tuchel or Conte who are world class and proven in major leagues.

He plays a very attacking 433 and Utd won't allow him to sell or sign the players he needs fast enough to play that.

Utd have a side full of egos and wet wipes cultivated by Ole. These are players signed for huge fees and paid about £100k a week over their market value. They'll be impossible to sell so he'll have to manage that type of player but he has no experience of it.

All of that under intense pressure and scrutiny is going to be almost impossible.
		
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I don't disagree with anything you say.   Ten Hag may be the cheap option but we've also tried the expensive ones in LVG and JM.  It's going to take a lot of unravelling at OT and things will get worse before (if) they get better.


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## hairball_89 (Apr 22, 2022)

Junior said:



			I don't disagree with anything you say.   Ten Hag may be the cheap option but we've also tried the expensive ones in LVG and JM.  It's going to take a lot of unravelling at OT and things will get worse before (if) they get better.
		
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Sean Dyche is available?! I'd enjoy that.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 22, 2022)

Junior said:



			I don't disagree with anything you say.   Ten Hag may be the cheap option but we've also tried the expensive ones in LVG and JM.  It's going to take a lot of unravelling at OT and things will get worse before (if) they get better.
		
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When they have that World Class donkey (Gareth’s m8) in defence….


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## Tashyboy (Apr 22, 2022)

If world class managers inc Maureen and LVG Could not make Utd see where the problems were, and I don’t just mean on the park. I am struggling to see how Ten Hag will. it seems Man Utd are a football image of our government where no one is taking responsibility and blaming everyone else. One things for sure with the prem league getting stronger with more teams up pushing for top four. Utds cause is not straight forward.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 22, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			If world class managers inc Maureen and LVG Could not make Utd see where the problems were, and I don’t just mean on the park. I am struggling to see how Ten Hag will. it seems Man Utd are a football image of our government where no one is taking responsibility and blaming everyone else. One things for sure with the prem league getting stronger with more teams up pushing for top four. Utds cause is not straight forward.
		
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Yes, although I think most people are agreed that the problems lie much deeper than the manager, and even the players. There are decision makers at the club who have somehow managed to keep players long past their sell date, and brought players in at extortionate prices / wages, and then it seems the manager at the time never really fancied that player anyway. Then there are all the people behind the scenes who work with the players, are they helping to motivate and build a winning mentality. Or, is it all a bit casual and unprofessional, with everyone having a bit of a laugh at posting clips on instagram and tiktok, rather than staying in training for an extra few hours because they are 100% focused on winning and are self critical of their own performances?

If all that remains the same, then yes I have no idea what ten Hag can do to improve things (I suspect nothing). Not if that culture remains the same, and Mourinho and Van Gaal also struggled. However, their struggles were also probably a lot down to themselves as well, and I think many fans didn't quite take to them. I've a feeling Utd fans will see ten Hag as a better fit from the start, and so be more understanding if things are not going so well for a while longer (just a hunch though). To me, at least this appointment seems to have been a bit more considered this time, rather than just rushing to get a big name manager in who can "guarantee" trophies, irrespective of how they come about.

As a fan, I always like to live in hope, rather than automatically feel the future will continually repeat itself until the end of days. So, I hope that ten Hag and his team will be a better fit for the club, that they will be able to motivate players, and quickly learn the players they can do without, and the ones they would like to bring in. I'd like to think that the Board are fully aware of their past mistakes, and willing to look at better ways of working with the manager and the team. Now, we might be sitting here this time in 2 years and saying Man Utd are still an embarrassment, but I hope we are instead looking at a team full of hard workers and a good team ethic. I think it is one of those times were the new manager actually has less to prove to the fans than the Club itself.


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## Orikoru (Apr 22, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Sean Dyche is available?! I'd enjoy that.
		
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I would love to see a Sean Dyche Man Utd line-up. I'm guessing something like:

De Gea
Wan-B - Maguire - Jones - Shaw
Sancho - McTominay - Matic - Telles?
Ronaldo - Cavani​
They don't have an orthodox leftie winger as far as I can tell so I had to put Telles there. Get some crosses in, Ronaldo will score 15 headers a season. Luxury players such as Pogba, Bruno & Rashford would be out their ear.  Industrious players only.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I would love to see a Sean Dyche Man Utd line-up. I'm guessing something like:

De Gea
Wan-B - Maguire - Jones - Shaw
Sancho - McTominay - Matic - Telles?
Ronaldo - Cavani​
They don't have an orthodox leftie winger as far as I can tell so I had to put Telles there. Get some crosses in, Ronaldo will score 15 headers a season. Luxury players such as Pogba, Bruno & Rashford would be out their ear.  Industrious players only.
		
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Could he keep them up?


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## Billysboots (Apr 22, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			If world class managers inc Maureen and LVG Could not make Utd see where the problems were, and I don’t just mean on the park. I am struggling to see how Ten Hag will. it seems Man Utd are a football image of our government where no one is taking responsibility and blaming everyone else. One things for sure with the prem league getting stronger with more teams up pushing for top four. Utds cause is not straight forward.
		
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The problems run far deeper than the manager and playing staff, Tash. I don’t know what it is, but there is something fundamentally wrong with the way the club is run, and there has been for years. 

It strikes me that footballing decisions are being made by non-footballing people. The evidence has been there in the transfer dealings, otherwise how do you explain a player like Di Maria being brought in for a manager like LVG? That is perhaps the best example I can think of to illustrate my point that, whilst the club continues to throw money at the problem, the manager is left to sort out the mess. There is a massive disconnect between the manager and those pulling the transfer strings. Ronaldo is another example - a signing made by club, not manager.

I say again, I hope that ten Hag has told the club that he’ll do it his way, or he’ll walk. Things can’t continue the way they have been going for the last decade.


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2022)

Junior said:



			I don't disagree with anything you say.   Ten Hag may be the cheap option but we've also tried the expensive ones in LVG and JM.  It's going to take a lot of unravelling at OT and things will get worse before (if) they get better.
		
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JM did do fairly well imo - given the accepted amount of hamstringing that he claimed, and all seem to feel is happening still. It was only after _he_ lost motivation that results went downhill for him.
Fixing the off-the-field machinations  needs to be the top priority imo.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 22, 2022)

Real crisis at Manchester United now. I've just read on the BBC website that Pogba could be injured for the rest of the season...


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## pauljames87 (Apr 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Real crisis at Manchester United now. I've just read on the BBC website that Pogba could be injured for the rest of the season...
		
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The odds for you getting champs League must have been slashed now that waste of talent is out


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## Junior (Apr 22, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			JM did do fairly well imo - given the accepted amount of hamstringing that he claimed, and all seem to feel is happening still. It was only after _he_ lost motivation that results went downhill for him.
Fixing the off-the-field machinations  needs to be the top priority imo.
		
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JM did great when he started.   We won 3 trophies in the first season if you include the charity shield.  

Problem with JM is that he's never a long term solution.  He lived out of a hotel, seemed to lose interest and then we ended up playing 10 men behind the ball and hoofing it up to Lukaku.  

I agree, fixing the off field issues needs to be a priority and moving RR upstairs where he should be seems to be the plan.


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2022)

Junior said:



			JM did great when he started.   We won 3 trophies in the first season if you include the charity shield.

Problem with JM is that he's never a long term solution.  He lived out of a hotel, seemed to lose interest and then we ended up playing 10 men behind the ball and hoofing it up to Lukaku.

I agree, fixing the off field issues needs to be a priority and moving RR upstairs where he should be seems to be the plan.
		
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Was that him, or the was it the stuff going on behind! I don't believe he had/has the tolerance to try to change the stuff behind the scenes.  I'm not sure whether RR is right for MU anywhere. Though if that is a role MU wants, he's certainly better there than as Manager.


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## Jensen (Apr 22, 2022)

It’s amazing that considering Alex Ferguson is on the Board at United, then if there are any problems behind the scene he hasn’t sorted it.
He clearly has a love and an affinity for the club, so it’s even more baffling considering his previous position and experience !!!!!


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## Billysboots (Apr 22, 2022)

Jensen said:



			It’s amazing that considering Alex Ferguson is on the Board at United, then if there are any problems behind the scene he hasn’t sorted it.
He clearly has a love and an affinity for the club, so it’s even more baffling considering his previous position and experience !!!!!
		
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The fella almost died not that many years ago!! I’m sure he’s got other priorities these days.


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2022)

Jensen said:



			It’s amazing that considering Alex Ferguson is on the Board at United, then if there are any problems behind the scene he hasn’t sorted it.
He clearly has a love and an affinity for the club, so it’s even more baffling considering his previous position and experience !!!!!
		
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He could well BE the problem - or at last part of it!


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## Dando (Apr 22, 2022)




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## pauljames87 (Apr 22, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			He could well BE the problem - or at last part of it!
		
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Massively but you can't blame him for it, when he stood down how can you keep him away from a place that became his home? Would be cruel, but it did them more harm than good


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## chrisd (Apr 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			. Now, we might be sitting here this time in 2 years and saying Man Utd are still an embarrassment, but I hope we are instead looking at a team full of hard workers and a good team ethic.
		
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I hope so too .............. especially if it's in the Championship 😉😉😉


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Massively but you can't blame him for it, when he stood down how can you keep him away from a place that became his home? Would be cruel, but it did them more harm than good
		
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Assuming that's the case....
If the other board members haven't got the bottle to tell hm directly, they should at least 'leak' it to the owners, if not the press! 

If he can't see that his influence isn't having a disastrous effect on the club he loves, then he's not as 'gifted' as everybody thinks he is!
He's not stupid, so that 'Assuming that's the case...' has to be wrong, surely!

But there's certainly something going on, at Board level, that's not constructive for Manu. Jose has even made a sort of reference to it, though it's hard to tell whether that's simply sour grapes/an act. Whatever the reason, it's in th Glazer family's interest to sort it out! They are, literally, losing millions if they don't!


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 22, 2022)




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## Dando (Apr 22, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



View attachment 42358

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That’s so out of order. More like after 3 days


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2022)

Dando said:



View attachment 42356

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Something else they’re making about them 😂


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## Stuart_C (Apr 22, 2022)

☝️



pauljames87 said:



			Massively but you can't blame him for it, when he stood down how can you keep him away from a place that became his home? Would be cruel, but it did them more harm than good
		
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There's no place in elite professional sports for sentiment.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 23, 2022)

Unle



Stuart_C said:



			☝️

There's no place in elite professional sports for sentiment.
		
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Unless there is a chance of Liverpool re-signing Robbie Fowler


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## BiMGuy (Apr 23, 2022)

21,300 fans at our U23 game last night.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Unle
Unless there is a chance of Liverpool re-signing Robbie Fowler 

Click to expand...

He would’ve scored a hatrick against your lot on Tuesday 😁😁


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## Tashyboy (Apr 23, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			21,300 fans at our U23 game last night.
		
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Was that the leeds v City game


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2022)

Good start 

No sightings of that pesky squirrel and alls good


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			Good start 

No sightings of that pesky squirrel and alls good 

Click to expand...

Not yet.
I'm struggling to find a reliable stream, thankfully!


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

Oh!


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

Offside surely!


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

So, Arsenal get a penalty, but Elanga didn't when clearly pulled back.
Hmmm, that's fair ......................... not.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but this stinks.


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2022)

uh oh, squirrel incoming


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)




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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

Lee Dixon really has no idea.


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2022)

Happy to be in front, but will be more goals the way both sides try to defend

lets hope Tomiyasu is back to fitness and we dont have to see anymore of Cedric, hes been utterly shocking yet again


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## davemc1 (Apr 23, 2022)

These lower league teams putting on a entertaining show. The low quality is certainly helping the game 😁


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

I actually think Utd are playing well ................................................... going forward.


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

davemc1 said:



			These lower league teams putting on a entertaining show. The low quality is certainly helping the game 😁
		
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Oh, the humour. It just never gets boring, repetitive or tedious.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He would’ve scored a hatrick against your lot on Tuesday 😁😁
		
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So would have Bernie Ecclestone


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2022)

oh bruno


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)




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## Swango1980 (Apr 23, 2022)

Why have a player take a penalty who said the other night Utd have nothing to play for? Why even play him at all to he honest?


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## Dando (Apr 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			oh bruno 

Click to expand...

I shouldn’t laugh either but 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

Is Arteta actually playing?
Someone should tell him to stay in his technical area or send the bugger off.


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2022)

what do our so called full backs do in training each week? its certainly not practising defending lol


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## Billysboots (Apr 23, 2022)

Not sure if I should post this here, or in the “Laughter - the best medicine” thread, but I actually think United are the better side.


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

Oh, they are, but they're getting absolute diddly from the ref or from the God of Fortune.


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Not sure if I should post this here, or in the “Laughter - the best medicine” thread, but I actually think United are the better side.
		
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not sure id describe either as a side. both have some decent individuals going forward but not a clue at the other end


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2022)

what a time for the idiots once a year wonderstrike


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## Billysboots (Apr 23, 2022)

Oops. Seems I’ve put the mockers on that. I’m off to mow the lawn.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 23, 2022)

I wonder what the rules are now in an offside player being in the goalkeeper's field of vision?


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## Tashyboy (Apr 23, 2022)

Flippin eck, you know your bad when Xhaka scores against you 😖


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wonder what the rules are now in an offside player being in the goalkeeper's field of vision?
		
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It depends on which team suffers.


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2022)

dirty snidey tackle from Fernandes


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## Swango1980 (Apr 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			dirty snidey tackle from Fernandes
		
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Even I was hoping he was sent off.


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

He should be off, horrid tackle.


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2022)

Didnt expect to beat Chelsea and united without being able to defend 

Thats Europe in some form all but guaranteed next year at least


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

I'm off to a proper game this evening.


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## Piece (Apr 23, 2022)

Tell you what, the Etihad has the best pre match music I've heard in a long time!


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## pauljames87 (Apr 23, 2022)

Piece said:



			Tell you what, the Etihad has the best pre match music I've heard in a long time!
		
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The highlight of the day by sounds


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## Piece (Apr 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The highlight of the day by sounds
		
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Nope, scoring a goal was 🤣


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## Jensen (Apr 23, 2022)

Well that was 2 hours I can’t get back. Tottenham very poor, flat, lack lustre. In fact lucky not to get beat.
Let’s hope Eriksen comes back, he’s top quality


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## pauljames87 (Apr 23, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Well that was 2 hours I can’t get back. Tottenham very poor, flat, lack lustre. In fact lucky not to get beat.
Let’s hope Eriksen comes back, he’s top quality
		
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Why would he want to trade down 😉


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 23, 2022)

Disappointed we couldn't rain on Bournemouth's parade and win the championship but still confident it'll happen. Mitrovic now one away from tying the record of goals in a season. Very surprised by the Arsenal result but well done to them and pleased to see Fernades miss the penalty. City did their goal difference some good but expecting Liverpool to score lots tomorrow


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## BrianM (Apr 23, 2022)

Tottenham were absolutely shocking tonight, matched their top to be fair 😂
Brentford should of won and Eriksen is still superb 😀


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## Foxholer (Apr 23, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Tottenham were absolutely shocking tonight, matched their top to be fair 😂
Brentford should of won and Eriksen is still superb 😀
		
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I agree re Erikson. MOTM for me. But Brentford certainly closed down any of the (rare) attacks Tottenham had. They definitely need a 'link' player who can connect the abundent possesion they get, through to Son/Kane, even if not for an actual goal-scoring opportunity - as they can create their own!


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2022)

I went to see Woking beat Wrexham 2-1 with a stirring 2nd half performance.
The atmosphere was superb and the view of the whole pitch gave me a much better perspective of the game.
No replays : bad.
No VAR : good.
Players still dive far too much and the officiating is pretty poor, but you just can't beat the experience of a good win against all the odds.
I've also realised that it hasn't given me a 'holier than thou' attitude and I haven't become all sanctimonious and pompous.
'Telly clappers' are still okay in my eyes.

Oh, Woking's second goal was superb.


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## Foxholer (Apr 23, 2022)

Slime said:



			...
Players still dive far too much and the officiating is pretty poor, but you just can't beat the experience of a good win against all the odds.
...
		
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If diving was punished by Yellow card, it would stop within a very short time! Unfortunately, it would likely have to done across all of Europe at least, so unlikely to ever be eliminated!


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## adam6177 (Apr 24, 2022)

Just catching up on MOTD and the arsenal man utd game.... Can't believe MU didn't get at least 2 more penalties (the hand ball and 2nd challenge on elanga, the first one was not enough for me), also can't believe Fernandes didn't get a straight red, like he should have done at anfield. Maybe he's the new fernandinho.

Entertaining game though.


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## backwoodsman (Apr 24, 2022)

Hurrah  - have effectively confirmed our play-off place. Only Middlesborough can thwart us but it requires them to win everything and needs a highly improbable turn around in goal difference. And we could still gain, albeit unlikely,  automatic promotion. Our game v Bournemouth will be very interesting ...


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Just catching up on MOTD and the arsenal man utd game.... Can't believe MU didn't get at least 2 more penalties (the hand ball and 2nd challenge on elanga, the first one was not enough for me), also can't believe Fernandes didn't get a straight red, like he should have done at anfield. Maybe he's the new fernandinho.

Entertaining game though.
		
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Can they still review bad tackles, increase to a red card etc even though VAR reviewed it? I can't understand how that was not upgraded to a red, it was obvious and nasty.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 24, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Just catching up on MOTD and the arsenal man utd game.... Can't believe MU didn't get at least 2 more penalties (the hand ball and 2nd challenge on elanga, the first one was not enough for me), also can't believe Fernandes didn't get a straight red, like he should have done at anfield. *Maybe he's the new fernandinho.*

Entertaining game though.
		
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I don’t think Fernandinho was dirty in a sense of hurting players, he was consistent in stopping play. He was that cute he could do it three or four times before ref’s found there yellow cards. It was that what rankled fans that he was not yellow carded sooner. The challenges Fernades has put in, if they were on him we could see a new record for a decibel scream and continuous rolls.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

Slime said:



			I went to see Woking beat Wrexham 2-1 with a stirring 2nd half performance.
The atmosphere was superb and the view of the whole pitch gave me a much better perspective of the game.
No replays : bad.
No VAR : good.
Players still dive far too much and the officiating is pretty poor, but you just can't beat the experience of a good win against all the odds.
*I've also realised that it hasn't given me a 'holier than thou' attitude and I haven't become all sanctimonious and pompous*.
'Telly clappers' are still okay in my eyes.

Oh, Woking's second goal was superb.
		
Click to expand...

It takes time dear boy 😉


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t think Fernandinho was dirty in a sense of hurting players, he was consistent in stopping play. He was that cute he could do it three or four times before ref’s found there yellow cards. It was that what rankled fans that he was not yellow carded sooner. *The challenges Fernades has put in, if they were on him we could see a new record for a decibel scream and continuous rolls.*

Click to expand...

Fernandes is by far the worst for writhing around on the floor pretending to be injured.


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It takes time dear boy 😉
		
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only for some


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

Slime said:



			Oh, the humour. It just never gets boring, repetitive or tedious.
		
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🤣🤣 U ok hun?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can they still review bad tackles, increase to a red card etc even though VAR reviewed it? I can't understand how that was not upgraded to a red, it was obvious and nasty.
		
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Shows how poor the reffing standard and VAR is imo.
They must be the only two people in the country who think it’s not a red.( inc UTD fans)
No excuse the ref was right in position with a clear view.
VAR well what can u say.
But his punishment was the same as a goalscorer taking his shirt off.
The reffing standards need addressing.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Fernandes is by far the worst for writhing around on the floor pretending to be injured.
		
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Agree ,he’s starting to be a pain in the ass.
No doubt a quality player ,but needs to go back and start playing football again.
Another inept performance from a team with very little pride in there own performances let alone as a team.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Fernandes is by far the worst for writhing around on the floor pretending to be injured.
		
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Am positive he can take rolling to another level 😉
On another note I got a lift home last night by Gabriel from Tunisia who drove the taxi. He gave me a lecture about oil money helping to win everything. I agreed, however he didn’t like it when I pointed out that his team “ Utd” have spent more and are rammel. Apparently he is confident they will be back next year as they have a brilliant manager coming.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2022)

Just hoping to avoid a smashing this afternoon

All CBs bar Dawson injured

Semi of Europa Wednesday

Would take a bore draw now


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2022)

Good to see Moyes prioritising Thursdays game

West Ham XI: Fabianski, Coufal, Johnson, Dawson, Cresswell, Masuaku, Noble, Soucek, Fornals, Benrahma, Yarmolenko.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			Good to see Moyes prioritising Thursdays game

West Ham XI: Fabianski, Coufal, Johnson, Dawson, Cresswell, Masuaku, Noble, Soucek, Fornals, Benrahma, Yarmolenko.
		
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If only he had done so the games we lost diop and zouma tbh 

Defence is first choice due to injuries 

Nice to see rice Bowen and Antonio finally given a rest


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## adam6177 (Apr 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t think Fernandinho was dirty in a sense of hurting players, he was consistent in stopping play. He was that cute he could do it three or four times before ref’s found there yellow cards. It was that what rankled fans that he was not yellow carded sooner. The challenges Fernades has put in, if they were on him we could see a new record for a decibel scream and continuous rolls.
		
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Oh yeah, don't get me wrong... He's not the malicious type, but in terms of volume of cheeky fouls he'd get away with before the yellow was finally branded was impressive.


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2022)

Jorginhahahahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			Jorginhahahahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Would you say red? Looked like cresswell could cover for me.

However rest of season gonna be good. No CBs lol


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Would you say red? Looked like cresswell could cover for me.

However rest of season gonna be good. No CBs lol
		
Click to expand...


yeah its a red for me, no attempt to play the ball and lukaku about to shoot when he pulls him


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			yeah its a red for me, no attempt to play the ball and lukaku about to shoot when he pulls him
		
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Am I correct in remembering it's just 1 match miss now for a straight red for a foul like that?

Means arsenal game which is slap between the semis and we will prob end up with youth team out anyways


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## Jensen (Apr 24, 2022)

So, will all the red and blue households be sitting next to each other holding hands at Anfield ??
It is after all the nations friendliest of rivals


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2022)

Jensen said:



			So, will all the red and blue households be sitting next to each other holding hands at Anfield ??
It is after all the nations friendliest of rivals
		
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The marketing people do spout some guff.

The abusive messages have already begun coming in 😆


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## nickjdavis (Apr 24, 2022)

Despite Everton's woes I actually look at the fixtures left and have a big concern for Leeds.

Wouldn't surprise me if Leeds went down on goal difference on the last day of the season.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 24, 2022)

Why am I even sitting down to watch this.


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## Captainron (Apr 24, 2022)

@Liverpoolphil is not allowed to comment on any football for the rest of the season. Let’s hope this title race goes right down to the wire. Will absolutely kill him to miss out.


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Am I correct in remembering it's just 1 match miss now for a straight red for a foul like that?

Means arsenal game which is slap between the semis and we will prob end up with youth team out anyways
		
Click to expand...


yep 1 game ban


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## adam6177 (Apr 24, 2022)

This Gordon fella seems to have forgotten to put studs in his boots, he's having a lot of trouble standing up.


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## Dando (Apr 24, 2022)

I see the sniper has already taken a pop at Richarlison


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Despite Everton's woes I actually look at the fixtures left and have a big concern for Leeds.

Wouldn't surprise me if Leeds went down on goal difference on the last day of the season.
		
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I'm not sure where Everton's goals are coming from to reach where Leeds are. I'd rather be where Leeds are than where we are.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 24, 2022)

I was expecting much worse from the first 15 minutes but this is agony.


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## Captainron (Apr 24, 2022)

That Gordon kid is a proper douchebag. How do you dive like that. Who does he think he is? Mo Salah?!?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I was expecting much worse from the first 15 minutes but this is agony.
		
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Just 65 minutes to go 😁

Anthony, why, just why? 🙄. He has the beating of TAA so why do that?


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## hairball_89 (Apr 24, 2022)

Nice to see Pickford taking approximately 12 mins for every goal kick and managing to fall over and hold the ball on the floor for absolutely no reason, with the ref seemingly suggesting that's fine?


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2022)

And I thought Burnley were supposed to be the unlikeable ones at the bottom


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## Piece (Apr 24, 2022)

Any chance of some football breaking out?


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2022)

Piece said:



			Any chance of some football breaking out?
		
Click to expand...

not if Everton have anything to do with it lol


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## IanM (Apr 24, 2022)

I suspected foul play when at the toss up the Everton Skipper in response to "heads or tails," said, "pardon?"


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## Piece (Apr 24, 2022)

How about a football equivalent of 'The Purge'? You have 1 minute to do what you want whilst the ref sits on a deckchair scoffing popcorn?


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## Jimaroid (Apr 24, 2022)

At least we’ve got passion on the pitch. Doing better than ManU. 👍


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## adam6177 (Apr 24, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			At least we’ve got passion on the pitch. Doing better than ManU. 👍
		
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I'll give you that for sure, fighting and scrapping for everything. I hope you can't keep that up for another 45 minutes 😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2022)

Piece said:



			Any chance of some football breaking out?
		
Click to expand...

Do you mean like at The Etihad yesterday? Come on, if we go at liverpool they will rip us apart, as City did to your lads yesterday. If we can come away with a point today then it is job well done. It's not the time to worry about being pretty.


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## Dando (Apr 24, 2022)

Captainron said:



@Liverpoolphil is not allowed to comment on any football for the rest of the season. Let’s hope this title race goes right down to the wire. Will absolutely kill him to miss out.
		
Click to expand...

I bet he’s shaking like a sh1tting dog


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## nickjdavis (Apr 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not sure where Everton's goals are coming from to reach where Leeds are. I'd rather be where Leeds are than where we are.
		
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I reckon that Leeds only have two games which they can possibly target for points...the away game at Palace and the home game against Brighton....the other 4 games I struggle to see them getting anything from.

Everton have 4 games that I think they can target for points....and if todays game stays as it is then that will be a massive bonus.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 24, 2022)

I absolutely loved that little smile and wink from Pickford by the way.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 24, 2022)

Interesting that even Carragher said Liverpool were lucky to get away with a foul in the box on Gordon. Yet, the ref didn't even give VAR a second to have a look at it to at least see if a review was needed, just let Liverpool kick off immediately.


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## Piece (Apr 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you mean like at The Etihad yesterday? Come on, if we go at liverpool they will rip us apart, as City did to your lads yesterday. If we can come away with a point today then it is job well done. It's not the time to worry about being pretty.
		
Click to expand...

You need more than 'effort' in a relegation battle. 😉. I've seen enough relegation games to know that 👍


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## IanM (Apr 24, 2022)

Piece said:



			You need more than 'effort' in a relegation battle. 😉. I've seen enough relegation games to know that 👍
		
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Some of them in September!😄


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2022)

Piece said:



			You need more than 'effort' in a relegation battle. 😉. I've seen enough relegation games to know that 👍
		
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Absolutely, you need structure and organisation. Plenty of that on show. There was no need for us to go gung ho in the first half. We have had chances second half, lack of quality up top is costing us.


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## Piece (Apr 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Absolutely, you need structure and organisation. Plenty of that on show. There was no need for us to go gung ho in the first half. We have had chances second half, lack of quality up top is costing us.
		
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Aye.

For the record, my original first half comment was aimed at Liverpool too 👍


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## Jimaroid (Apr 24, 2022)

Ah well. I think we’ve given them a good game but it’s an inevitable result. Apart from Richi’s antics it’s been a decent scrap.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 24, 2022)

Awww, poor Jordan Henderson. Someone get him a tissue to dry his eyes


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2022)

Piece said:



			Aye.

For the record, my original first half comment was aimed at Liverpool too 👍
		
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I didn't take it personally 👍. What you said was fair but in the circumstances this was never going to be a match for the neutral. We won't play in the same style for the rest of the season.


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 24, 2022)

Thought Henderson had died following that challenge!


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Ah well. I think we’ve given them a good game but it’s an inevitable result. Apart from Richi’s antics it’s been a decent scrap.
		
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Whether we stay up or not, hopefully he will be gone in the summer. Money in the bank, off the wage list.

Good organisation but I'm still struggling to see where our goals are coming from.


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## davemc1 (Apr 24, 2022)

Championship too good for them


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## Piece (Apr 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Whether we stay up or not, hopefully he will be gone in the summer. Money in the bank, off the wage list.

Good organisation but I'm still struggling to see where our goals are coming from.
		
Click to expand...

Don't worry we'll help you out in a few weeks time! 🤣


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## adam6177 (Apr 24, 2022)

If I'm not already feeling great about a really hard fought result, reading these salty salty comments gives me even more joy. Its Fantastic that some people's teams are in such a mess that they try to find solice in little events in our games. Brilliant stuff👍

Oh and I really hope Everton find the goals they need to stay up. I don't want to see the premier League without them.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2022)

If lampard is the answer clearly they were asking the wrong question....

Unless that question is how could we ensure we go down


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## IanM (Apr 24, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			If lampard is the answer clearly they were asking the wrong question....

Unless that question is how could we ensure we go down
		
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Were they not on a slippery slope before he arrived?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2022)

IanM said:



			Were they not on a slippery slope before he arrived?
		
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Indeed which is why they needed a decent manager to correct the slide rather than a clueless manager


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 24, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Indeed which is why they needed a decent manager to correct the slide rather than a clueless manager
		
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Who would you have chosen that was available at the time please?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Indeed which is why they needed a decent manager to correct the slide rather than a clueless manager
		
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You still feel betrayed that he left you. We get it but you really need to let it go............😆


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## greenone (Apr 24, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Nice to see Pickford taking approximately 12 mins for every goal kick and managing to fall over and hold the ball on the floor for absolutely no reason, with the ref seemingly suggesting that's fine?
		
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Moment of the match was Allison mimicking him in the last 5 mins.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You still feel betrayed that he left you. We get it but you really need to let it go............😆
		
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Was never that he left, more the manor he conducts himself upon his return 

School in the summer


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Who would you have chosen that was available at the time please?
		
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dunno but Id sack him in the morning and hire Sean Dyche, he might have some experience and motivation


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## davemc1 (Apr 24, 2022)

Hello…? Big Sam/Lil Sam

durrrr…


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## Yorkhacker (Apr 24, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Was never that he left, more the manor he conducts himself upon his return 

School in the summer
		
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I know, and the West Ham fans are so nice to him when he comes back


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 24, 2022)

Big result for Burnley and Everton really in the mire now especially as Burnley have a better (?) goal difference. With their run in what can Lampard do to change the thinking and belief?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			I know, and the West Ham fans are so nice to him when he comes back
		
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Two wrongs do not make a right. I expect a professional to act professional. 

Fans aren't professionals. Some of them are bearly human


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## Jensen (Apr 24, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Big result for Burnley and Everton really in the mire now especially as Burnley have a better (?) goal difference. With their run in what can Lampard do to change the thinking and belief?
		
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Fat Frank could resign, that would give them a lift


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 24, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Fat Frank could resign, that would give them a lift
		
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Unlikely though. Surprised how high his win percentage is https://footystats.org/managers/england/frank-lampard but Everton not winning away from home since August is so poor


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## Yorkhacker (Apr 24, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Two wrongs do not make a right. I expect a professional to act professional. 

Fans aren't professionals. Some of them are bearly human
		
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What did he do that was so shocking. Scored against you and kissed the Chelsea badge. Its funny that according to you it's OK for fans not to be professional, but professionals aren't allowed to be human!


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 24, 2022)

School of science?

The coroner will have a field day assessing Richarlison's life threatening injuries.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 24, 2022)

Klopp taken to hospital for brain scan.
He’s just called Origi world class
Lmao,world class and he hardly ever plays.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Two wrongs do not make a right. I expect a professional to act professional.
*
Fans aren't professionals. Some of them are bearly human*

Click to expand...

Is that the telly clappers or the match going ones?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Klopp taken to hospital for brain scan.
He’s just called Origi world class
Lmao,world class and he hardly ever plays.
		
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Cult hero.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

Piece said:



			Any chance of some football breaking out?
		
Click to expand...

It's very hard to play football when the ball isnt in play because the  other team are wasting time.

That said, liverpool were poor 1st half, they let Everton dictate the pace of the game.

Ref lost control of that game after 5minutes.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			And I thought Burnley were supposed to be the unlikeable ones at the bottom 

Click to expand...

Good side Burnley, i hope they stop up.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Is that the telly clappers or the match going ones?
		
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Definitely match goers. Spot of the Peter pans


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

Piece said:



			Don't worry we'll help you out in a few weeks time! 🤣
		
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Please no. Hopefully arl hodgy can use his 108 yrs in football to mastermind a win.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Cult hero.
		
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That’s more like it.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s more like it.
		
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Do you really expect klopp to call anything but world class? 

He's scored big goals for us and will always be remembered. He'd score 20 goals in most PL teams barring City and Liverpool.


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## BrianM (Apr 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Is that the telly clappers or the match going ones?
		
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Usual cheap crass comment, Everton played well, makes you wonder how they are down there…..
Liverpool have that quality though, thought Robertson was absolutely class today, like a Duracell bunny 😂😂
Oragi was great when he came on as well, shows the strength in depth.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Usual cheap crass comment, Everton played well, makes you wonder how they are down there…..
Liverpool have that quality though, thought Robertson was absolutely class today, like a Duracell bunny 😂😂
Oragi was great when he came on as well, shows the strength in depth.
		
Click to expand...

Cheap crass/comment??  I just wanted  PJ87 to clarify who he was talking about re football fans barely being human.....

Everton played well?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

They barely touched the ball, wasted so much time too. Funny how it stopped when they went 1nil down.


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## BrianM (Apr 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Cheap crass/comment??  I just wanted  PJ87 to clarify who he was talking about re football fans barely being human.....

It was his comment I was talking about 😂😂

Everton played well?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
They weren’t terrible considering their form going into game, boy Gordon on the left was decent???

They barely touched the ball, wasted so much time too. Funny how it stopped when they went 1nil down,
Come on you are a world class side, you have to try and change things to give yourself a chance….
		
Click to expand...


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## pokerjoke (Apr 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you really expect klopp to call anything but world class?

He's scored big goals for us and will always be remembered. He'd score 20 goals in most PL teams barring City and Liverpool.[/QUOTE
Agree he’s scored big goals 
He not world class though.
Klopp saying he’s WC when he hardly ever plays him is just plain stupid,because not many actually believe it.
Is he moving on at the end of the season?
		
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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

@pokerjoke  and @BrianM  i cant respond properly because youve not quoted correctly.

@pokerjoke  he may not be world class but klopp or any other manager wouldnt say anything different. Its respect.

@BrianM i said earlier on in this thread that we shouldve done better in the 1st half. For me it was always a case of get 1 we get 2 or more.

Gordon and Frank the Tory need to look at themselves. Gordon is a really good footballer, loads of ability and is a threat. He needs to stay on his feet.

Gordon is a bare faced liar, he said Matip stood on his foot. Theres no evidence of this.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

Utter disrespect  from Lampard to suggest if it was the other end Mo Salah gets it.  Its tiresome,lazy and lies.

How many pens has Mo Salah had this season?


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## Tashyboy (Apr 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Utter disrespect  from Lampard to suggest if it was the other end Mo Salah gets it.  Its tiresome,lazy and lies.

*How many pens has Mo Salah had this season?*

Click to expand...

I wouldn’t get involved in Lampards bitter comments or upset by them. Liverpool have got penalties this season, Lampards disrespectful  comments come from the fact Liverpool are the only team in the prem not to concede one. That’s down to good defending amongst other things.


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## 4LEX (Apr 24, 2022)

He's fat, he's round,
He's taking Everton down....
Frankie Lamps, Frankie Lamps!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I wouldn’t get involved in Lampards bitter comments or upset by them. Liverpool have got penalties this season, Lampards disrespectful  comments come from the fact Liverpool are the only team in the prem not to concede one. That’s down to good defending amongst other things.
		
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Far from upset about them, it's just lazy to suggest they never got one because it's Anfield and if it was Salah it'd  be given.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2022)

4LEX said:



			He's fat, he's round,
He's taking Everton down....
Frankie Lamps, Frankie Lamps!
		
Click to expand...

Meh


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## 4LEX (Apr 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Meh
		
Click to expand...

Everton probably have too much quality to go down but would love to see it.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 25, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Everton probably have too much quality to go down but would love to see it.
		
Click to expand...

The west ham team in 2003 had far more quality , and a record points haul of 42 

David james

Joe cole 
Michael Carrick 
Jermaine Defoe
Paolo Di Canio 
Freddie kanoute 
Trevor Sinclair 

Second half season you had 

Glen Johnson appear from the academy
Les Ferdinand appear on loan 
Lee bowyer (when he was sort after) appear 


That team is far better than the bottom half the table ATM


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Everton probably have too much quality to go down but would love to see it.
		
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🤣🤣🤣 quality, where?

It doesnt matter how much quality or ability some players are perceived to have, if your team cant defend and keep clean sheets its irrelevant.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣🤣🤣 quality, where?

It doesnt matter how much quality or ability some players are perceived to have, if your team cant defend and keep clean sheets its irrelevant.
		
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Add in the lack of confidence at the moment, a poor manager and a horrendous run in it has to be hard to be optimistic about Evertons chances. If Burnley even a point and Everton lose their next game the gap is 3 points and Burnley have a better goal difference too. Burnley have a massive chance next week away to Watford but then have two chances against an average Villa side


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## Yorkhacker (Apr 25, 2022)

4LEX said:



			He's fat, he's round,
He's taking Everton down....
Frankie Lamps, Frankie Lamps!
		
Click to expand...

Wow that's original. Come up with that all by yourself did you. You're quite the poet, but it doesn't quite scan properly. Must try harder. Humour's obviously not your strong point


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Utter disrespect  from Lampard to suggest if it was the other end Mo Salah gets it.  Its tiresome,lazy and lies.

How many pens has Mo Salah had this season?
		
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It’s poor form to use such cliche, I’ve not seen Frank’s interview yet but I’m disappointed he’s gone down that route. To be honest I think even though it would probably have been given a penalty had it gone to review it was natural justice for Gordon’s earlier dive. Hopefully that’s a lesson that’ll stick with him for his career. Gordon’s spent a bit too much time under Richi’s wing lately I fear. 

We were never, ever, getting any points from that game. I thought Frank’s strategy of frustrate and break did well enough to get us through 60 minutes without a goal. He should be pleased enough with that without looking to blame the ref.

Anyway. It was so good to see the crowds back for the last derby of my lifetime. Nice send off. 😢 😉


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## Patrick Reeds rules book. (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Interesting that even Carragher said Liverpool were lucky to get away with a foul in the box on Gordon. Yet, the ref didn't even give VAR a second to have a look at it to at least see if a review was needed, just let Liverpool kick off immediately.
		
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his dive in the first half didn’t help him….


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Patrick Reeds rules book. said:



			his dive in the first half didn’t help him….
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps not, and I'm sure that can influence the refs real time decision. However, VAR shouldn't be influenced by such things. I was just surprised the ref didn't even give VAR a few seconds to look at it, and provide a response either way.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 25, 2022)

Where does the “Fat Frank” thing come from?


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Oh dear. 😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518259780770537474


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Where does the “Fat Frank” thing come from?
		
Click to expand...

Because, as a footballer, maybe he had 8% body fat instead of 7%. And, fans with 30% body fat like to call him Fat Frank


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			It’s poor form to use such cliche, I’ve not seen Frank’s interview yet but I’m disappointed he’s gone down that route. To be honest I think even though it would probably have been given a penalty had it gone to review it was natural justice for Gordon’s earlier dive. Hopefully that’s a lesson that’ll stick with him for his career. Gordon’s spent a bit too much time under Richi’s wing lately I fear.

We were never, ever, getting any points from that game. I thought Frank’s strategy of frustrate and break did well enough to get us through 60 minutes without a goal. He should be pleased enough with that without looking to blame the ref.

Anyway. It was so good to see the crowds back for the last derby of my lifetime. Nice send off. 😢 😉
		
Click to expand...

Yeah its something you expect from fans not ex professionals/managers.

I didnt think it was a pen in real time, it was right below me as we were above the away end and seeing it replayed i still think the same.

I like Gordon, i think he's a really talented player but he's gotta stop that getting his body in front then twisting so it looks like a foul.

Look at the TAA sliding tackle on him, he skipped the challenge and then went down.

Everton's time wasting tactics from the 1st minute was abysmal though it worked for 60 minutes. 

No problem whatsoever with that, they had to do what suits them but i had a problem with the ref not getting a grip.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Patrick Reeds rules book. said:



			his dive in the first half didn’t help him….
		
Click to expand...

Which one of 6?


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## SaintHacker (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Everton's time wasting tactics from the 1st minute was abysmal though it worked for 60 minutes.

No problem whatsoever with that, they had to do what suits them but i had a problem with the ref not getting a grip.
		
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It was obviously going to happen. They knew full well if they came out and tried to play football Liverpool would hump them. My only surprise was it wasn't 4 or 5 after they conceded the first and had to come out and try and score.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Perhaps not, and I'm sure that can influence the refs real time decision. However, VAR shouldn't be influenced by such things. *I was just surprised the ref didn't even give VAR a few seconds to look at it, and provide a response either way*.
		
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That's not how VAR has worked for the last 33 games. 

Every decison that a on field ref has been told to go and check the monitor has been overturned.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 25, 2022)

Made me smile watching MOTD2, 2 good 2 bad. Allison copying Pickford going down with the ball was pure quality.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			That's not how VAR has worked for the last 33 games.

Every decison that a on field ref has been told to go and check the monitor has been overturned.
		
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When there is a questionable decision, the ref will usually hold up play to give the VAR a chance to have a look before play continues. The VAR may say everything is fine, and then the ref lets play continue. Or, the VAR may say the ref should go and have a look. Surely you have seen that. When the ref holds one hand in the air for the players to hold play, and another to his ear to indicate he is talking to VAR. That is exactly how it has worked.


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## Bazzatron (Apr 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Where does the “Fat Frank” thing come from?
		
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Dunno, but wish i was as fat as him.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			When there is a questionable decision, the ref will usually hold up play to give the VAR a chance to have a look before play continues. The VAR may say everything is fine, and then the ref lets play continue. Or, the VAR may say the ref should go and have a look. Surely you have seen that. When the ref holds one hand in the air for the players to hold play, and another to his ear to indicate he is talking to VAR. That is exactly how it has worked.
		
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Yeah but it wasnt a questionable decision by the arbiter of the football laws. He was confident it was a goal kick. Dont forget  these decisions are subjective according to the PGMOL and their mouth piece's in the media.

Atwell was shocking yesterday  for both sides.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			No problem whatsoever with that, they had to do what suits them but i had a problem with the ref not getting a grip.
		
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Atwell let too much go and should have acted sooner, even though I found it amusing I couldn't/wouldn't complain if Pickford had been shown a card in the first half.

I do wonder if this gives other teams ideas to frustrate Liverpool now. To be clear, I wouldn't like to see it happen, but I'm sure there's going to be a few managers rubbing their chins and mulling it over.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah but it wasnt a questionable decision by the arbiter of the football laws. He was confident it was a goal kick. Dont forget  these decisions are subjective according to the PGMOL and their mouth piece's in the media.

Atwell was shocking yesterday  for both sides.
		
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And this is the most likely reason why it wasn't reviewed, hence my shock. The ability of the on field referee. Regardless of any referees own subjective view, they should not let that make their mind up that there is no need for VAR. The referees will always need to make subjective decisions and will make their decision based on whichever way they sway. Obviously, the whole point of VAR is to be able to look at the incident in detail, and be able to step in if they need to. The ref needs to be strong enough to pause things just in case, God forbid, they might have got it wrong initially.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Atwell let too much go and should have acted sooner, even though I found it amusing I couldn't/wouldn't complain if Pickford had been shown a card in the first half.

I do wonder if this gives other teams ideas to frustrate Liverpool now. To be clear, I wouldn't like to see it happen, but I'm sure there's going to be a few managers rubbing their chins and mulling it over.
		
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It happens more often than you think to the top sides,  yesterday was the worst i've seen closely followed by Wolves away earlier on in the season. We actually scored the winner in the injury time they wasted.

I've no problem with it in the main, but it needs to be managed fairly by the refs.

Yesterday there was 2 mins added on 1st half. I reckon there should've been minimum 8 mins.


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## Orikoru (Apr 25, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Well that was 2 hours I can’t get back. Tottenham very poor, flat, lack lustre. In fact lucky not to get beat.
Let’s hope Eriksen comes back, he’s top quality
		
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Conte's system doesn't allow for an Eriksen though. That's why he has Bentancur, who's meant to provide that sort of creativity but from a deeper position.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			And this is the most likely reason why it wasn't reviewed, hence my shock. The ability of the on field referee. Regardless of any referees own subjective view, they should not let that make their mind up that there is no need for VAR. The referees will always need to make subjective decisions and will make their decision based on whichever way they sway. Obviously, the whole point of VAR is to be able to look at the incident in detail, and be able to step in if they need to. The ref needs to be strong enough to pause things just in case, God forbid, they might have got it wrong initially.
		
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Might aswell get rid of the refs and referee the game from stockley park


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## Orikoru (Apr 25, 2022)

I like Lampard, but he had no experience of a relegation battle as a player even, let alone as a manager, it was a crazy appointment. He seems to have come in and thought they could play their way out of trouble - if a team is in trouble it's usually because they can't defend. The managers known for keeping teams up are the pragmatic ones who come in and get them defending better first and foremost. He's not done that at all, arguably their defending got worse.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			And this is the most likely reason why it wasn't reviewed, hence my shock. The ability of the on field referee. Regardless of any referees own subjective view, they should not let that make their mind up that there is no need for VAR. The referees will always need to make subjective decisions and will make their decision based on whichever way they sway. Obviously, the whole point of VAR is to be able to look at the incident in detail, and be able to step in if they need to. The ref needs to be strong enough to pause things just in case, God forbid, they might have got it wrong initially.
		
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Nah, if VAR had the remit to step-in that game would have been 90 minutes of review and 5 minutes of football. If Atwell had slowed that game down any more we'd be going backwards in time.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 25, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I like Lampard, but he had no experience of a relegation battle as a player even, let alone as a manager, it was a crazy appointment. He seems to have come in and thought they could play their way out of trouble - if a team is in trouble it's usually because they can't defend. The managers known for keeping teams up are the pragmatic ones who come in and get them defending better first and foremost. He's not done that at all, arguably their defending got worse.
		
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There is no question lampard is one of the best midfielders to grace the premier League 

Gerrard imo was always better and his England career stunted trying to play em both 

Derby was a good fit for him. He did some shrewd loans using his chelsea connections  in mount and tormi , plus got Wilson from Liverpool.. 

His mistake was answering chesleas call when he would always be a fall guy because they couldn't buy anyone so needed to keep the fans happy 

Should have stayed at derby built up his career


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## greenone (Apr 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Where does the “Fat Frank” thing come from?
		
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Disgruntled West ham fans when he left.


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## Orikoru (Apr 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			There is no question lampard is one of the best midfielders to grace the premier League

Gerrard imo was always better and his England career stunted trying to play em both

Derby was a good fit for him. He did some shrewd loans using his chelsea connections  in mount and tormi , plus got Wilson from Liverpool..

His mistake was answering chesleas call when he would always be a fall guy because they couldn't buy anyone so needed to keep the fans happy

Should have stayed at derby built up his career
		
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Agree, Derby was a good blank slate for him to see what he could do, and he got them playing well - with a bit of help from some shrewd loan deals. The Chelsea gig came way too quickly, he'd have wanted that later in his career but I guess like he felt he couldn't say no in case he never got asked again. I thought he did well the first year under the transfer ban, established the likes of Mount and Abraham - but the expectations were too high when they were flashing the cash again and it was too much too soon. I'm not sure where his next move will be, whether a midtable team takes a pop with him, or more likely he'll have to head back to the Championship again.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 25, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Agree, Derby was a good blank slate for him to see what he could do, and he got them playing well - with a bit of help from some shrewd loan deals. The Chelsea gig came way too quickly, he'd have wanted that later in his career but I guess like he felt he couldn't say no in case he never got asked again. I thought he did well the first year under the transfer ban, established the likes of Mount and Abraham - but the expectations were too high when they were flashing the cash again and it was too much too soon. I'm not sure where his next move will be, whether a midtable team takes a pop with him, or more likely he'll have to head back to the Championship again.
		
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Tbh if Everton go down why not keep him and let him have a go.


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## Orikoru (Apr 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Tbh if Everton go down why not keep him and let him have a go.
		
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I think he'd probably walk if he took them down. Or, he should do. Then they should pick up Dyche before someone else does.


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## Bdill93 (Apr 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Tbh if Everton go down why not keep him and let him have a go.
		
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I think thats the right move. He's got experience and should he get them back up and then maintain premier league status, he will earn a move somewhere else again afterwards.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Might aswell get rid of the refs and referee the game from stockley park
		
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It often feels like that, thankfully it is only restricted to penalty box incidents, potential red card offences and offsides at the moment. Had any Liverpool player gone down under a similar tangle with Michael Keane, and the ref didn't give it, I'm sure there'd have been cries for the ref to at least wait to see if VAR had a different view. And, given the pressure he'd be under by the home fans, I think he'd be far more willing to tell Jordan Pickford to hang on for a second before putting the ball back into play.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 25, 2022)

greenone said:



			Disgruntled West ham fans when he left.
		
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Not even when he left , it was when he was there


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Where does the “Fat Frank” thing come from?
		
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Fans like a bit of alliteration. I don't think you need to look too much deeper than that.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fans like a bit of alliteration. I don't think you need to look too much deeper than that.
		
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Well that and when he broke through he had puppy fat, as did Joe cole 

Not like the players of today who hit the gym from day 1 

Ashton used to always get called chunky but then once he retired he did put the timber on.. such a shame what a player


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well that and when he broke through he had puppy fat, as did Joe cole 

Not like the players of today who hit the gym from day 1 

Ashton used to always get called chunky but then once he retired he did put the timber on.. such a shame what a player
		
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No chunky Cole or Jubbly Joe though. As I say, I don't think the name is too deep in its origin. For those who don't like him it's an easy one to use. I doubt he loses too much sleep over it.


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## Orikoru (Apr 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well that and when he broke through he had puppy fat, as did Joe cole

Not like the players of today who hit the gym from day 1

Ashton used to always get called chunky but then once he retired he did put the timber on.. such a shame what a player
		
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Some players obviously struggle more than others, maybe metabolism etc. Rooney you could always tell was carrying a bit, but he would get by on pure adrenaline. As you say, most players nowadays don't have an ounce of fat on them. I think Cristiano Ronaldo is one of those who helped changed that mentality in football. He always looked like an adonis and he's still going at nearly 38 years old. Whereas the original Ronaldo for example - every bit of talent you could hope for, but obviously struggled fitness-wise, was pretty much done at 31 and nowadays he looks obese.


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			That's not how VAR has worked for the last 33 games.

Every decison that a on field ref has been told to go and check the monitor has been overturned.
		
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That simply indicates consistency of Rules application - both Ref and VAR (now) agree. And the way VAR works. It's the Ref that makes the final decision.
Have you counted the number where Ref indicates VAR involvement and play subsequently continues - which indicates VAR satisfied with Ref's ruling? That too is 'how VAR has worked for the last 33 games'. And that's without counting those where VAR checks without any comms and agrees with Ref's decision.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 25, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Some players obviously struggle more than others, maybe metabolism etc. Rooney you could always tell was carrying a bit, but he would get by on pure adrenaline. As you say, most players nowadays don't have an ounce of fat on them. I think Cristiano Ronaldo is one of those who helped changed that mentality in football. He always looked like an adonis and he's still going at nearly 38 years old. Whereas the original Ronaldo for example - every bit of talent you could hope for, but obviously struggled fitness-wise, was pretty much done at 31 and nowadays he looks obese.
		
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Could tell Rooney was built so that soon as the training went he would pile on a bit, like u say some players are wired that way


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## pauljames87 (Apr 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No chunky Cole or Jubbly Joe though. As I say, I don't think the name is too deep in its origin. For those who don't like him it's an easy one to use. I doubt he loses too much sleep over it.
		
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Cole was the prodigal son where as Frank was always deemed to be in the team because of his dad and uncle 

Tbh lampard looked better at chelsea because he was surrounded by class, it allowed him to shine 

Not like a cole who had the skills to shine or a rice / Carrick who dominated the midfield


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It often feels like that, thankfully it is only restricted to penalty box incidents, potential red card offences and offsides at the moment. *Had any Liverpool player gone down under a similar tangle with Michael Keane, and the ref didn't give it, I'm sure there'd have been cries for the ref to at least wait to see if VAR had a different view*. And, given the pressure he'd be under by the home fans, I think he'd be far more willing to tell Jordan Pickford to hang on for a second before putting the ball back into play.
		
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Of course there would've, like at any ground in any country, it still doesnt make the ref wrong. 

Believe me or not, Refs these days rarely get swayed by the home crowd. 

He was in a great position to see the coming together, he didnt need VAR.

Everton have had more pens against us in the last 10yrs than we have against them at Anfield.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			That simply indicates consistency of Rules application - both Ref and VAR (now) agree. And the way VAR works. *It's the Ref that makes the final decision*.
Have you counted the number where Ref indicates VAR involvement and play subsequently continues - which indicates VAR satisfied with Ref's ruling? That too is 'how VAR has worked for the last 33 games'. And that's without counting those where VAR checks without any comms and agrees with Ref's decision.
		
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No he doesnt make the final decision once VAR intervenes.  Every ref who has been directed to the Pitchside Monitor this season every decision has been overturned.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Of course there would've, like at any ground in any country, it still doesnt make the ref wrong.

Believe me or not, Refs these days rarely get swayed by the home crowd.

*He was in a great position to see the coming together, he didnt need VAR.*

Everton have had more pens against us in the last 10yrs than we have against them at Anfield.
		
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That isn't exactly a good reason, is it? We've seen refs in the most fantastic positions frequently, and they still need VAR as they make the wrong initial call. There have been enough people saying Liverpool were lucky, even those with Liverpool connections. So, there was some doubt there, regardless of what the initial decision was by the ref. Why did Gordon fall over anyway?


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			...
Everton have had more pens against us in the last 10yrs than we have against them at Anfield.
		
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That's a pretty useless/pointless stat imo.
That could be used to indicate that Liverpool are a 'dirtier' team - not that that's what I'm suggesting.


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			No he doesnt make the final decision once VAR intervenes.  Every ref who has been directed to the Pitchside Monitor this season every decision has been overturned.
		
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Tw.....
From this document..https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321
<Quote>
*Can VAR overrule a referee?*
No. The final decision is always taken by the on-field referee. The VAR only provides advice.
<End Quote>
And, as I posted earlier, it's only those incidents 'where the information received from the VAR falls outside of the referee’s expectation range, or where there is a serious missed incident, the referee can use the RRA to assist with a final decision.' (also from above document).


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Tw.....
From this document..https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321
<Quote>
*Can VAR overrule a referee?*
No. The final decision is always taken by the on-field referee. The VAR only provides advice.
<End Quote>
And, as I posted earlier, it's only those incidents 'where the information received from the VAR falls outside of the referee’s expectation range, or where there is a serious missed incident, the referee can use the RRA to assist with a final decision.' (also from above document).
		
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Ok. On the balance of probability, you'd expect at least 1 of the 53 Pitchside Monitor referrals to be upheld, no?

With that in mind, i dont believe refs do get the final say.


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## Bdill93 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Ok. On the balance of probability, you'd expect at least 1 of the 53 Pitchside Monitor referrals to be upheld, no?

With that in mind, *i dont believe refs do get the final say*.
		
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I agree!


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## pauljames87 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Ok. On the balance of probability, you'd expect at least 1 of the 53 Pitchside Monitor referrals to be upheld, no?

With that in mind, i dont believe refs do get the final say.
		
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There is belief and fact. The refs say is final. However when sent to VAR doubt is put in their mind.

The ref explains their decision to var and var explains what they saw and the ref will decide if they change their mind or not.

Ref can also ask to review decisions they make.


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Ok. On the balance of probability, you'd expect at least 1 of the 53 Pitchside Monitor referrals to be upheld, no?
		
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No - Given the 'clear and obvious' criteria for a referral.


Stuart_C said:



			...
With that in mind, i dont believe refs do get the final say.
		
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In spite of the fact that that's what the Rules (of VAR) state.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			From this document..https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321

Click to expand...

That's 2 years old.

The reality is measuring overturns vs. rejected overturns. Ref's haven't rejected any VAR overturns at all this season and it appears to be intentional so that "VAR is always right"


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## greenone (Apr 25, 2022)

what planet is this ref on?

😂


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That isn't exactly a good reason, is it? We've seen refs in the most fantastic positions frequently, and they still need VAR as they make the wrong initial call. There have been enough people saying Liverpool were lucky, even those with Liverpool connections. So, there was some doubt there, regardless of what the initial decision was by the ref. *Why did Gordon fall over anyway?*

Click to expand...

Of course it is!! He's a referee, he's there to officiate the game how he sees fit within the laws of the game.  

Yes they get stuff wrong, they're human. We've been on the end of them too. As a fan it annoys you but it is what it is. 

If he was in a poor position then you'd have a  valid point that VAR should've been used but isnt that the idea of it? 

Have you seen him play this season? 

He admitted himself he felt contact, so went down to gain an advantage.

Not all contact is a foul.


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			That's 2 years old.
...
		
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Still applicable I believe. June 2020, so 2nd season of applicability. I'm happy if you can find and point to a more up-to-date one, but am certain the same text will apply to VAR referrals.



Jimaroid said:



			...
The reality is measuring overturns vs. rejected overturns. Ref's haven't rejected any VAR overturns at all this season and it appears to be intentional so that "VAR is always right"
		
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Given the criteria for 'referral' to RRA, I would expect/hope that was the case!
*What incidents does the VAR check? *
VAR will be used only for “clear and obvious errors” or “serious missed incidents” in four match-changing situations: goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity.
Anf FWIW..It's the Referree that overturns - as per 'final decision' above.


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Of course it is!! He's a referee, he's there to officiate the game how he sees fit within the laws of the game. 

Yes they get stuff wrong, they're human. We've been on the end of them too. As a fan it annoys you but it is what it is.

*If he was in a poor position then you'd have a  valid point that VAR should've been used but isnt that the idea of it?*

Have you seen him play this season?

He admitted himself he felt contact, so went down to gain an advantage.

Not all contact is a foul.
		
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Remember that, as per the doc I quoted earlier, VAR is only used in certain situations...
*What incidents does the VAR check? *
VAR will be used only for “clear and obvious errors” or “serious missed incidents” in four match-changing situations: goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity.

Was the incident one of those?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Remember that, as per the doc I quoted earlier, VAR is only used in certain situations...
*What incidents does the VAR check? *
VAR will be used only for “clear and obvious errors” or “serious missed incidents” in four match-changing situations: goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity.

Was the incident one of those?
		
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Ask @Swango1980 , it seems he wants VAR to check everything the ref gives 🤷🏼


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Ask @Swango1980 , it seems he wants VAR to check everything the ref gives 🤷🏼
		
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Bit of a childish remark there really. 

But, as one of its jobs is to check penalty incidents, then on the Gordon incident, where there was a claim of a penalty, then yes, I'd expect VAR to have a look.


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			...

But, as one of its jobs is to check penalty incidents, then on the Gordon incident, where there was a claim of a penalty, then yes, I'd expect VAR to have a look.
		
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Then it probably did, and determined NOT to be a “clear and obvious error” or “serious missed incident”! In other words...that the Ref was right! 
Of course, and perhaps somewhat unfortunately, there don't appear to be stats on the number of those.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Bit of a childish remark there really.

But, as one of its jobs is to check penalty incidents, then on the Gordon incident, where there was a claim of a penalty, then yes, I'd expect VAR to have a look.
		
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Er no.

You want refs who are in good enough positions to judge, to have their decisions checked.

It’s my understanding that as the game is being played, the VAR is in direct communication with the on field ref. I would assume that yesterday’s non foul was communicated and that’s why Atwell never halted play.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Still applicable I believe. June 2020, so 2nd season of applicability. I'm happy if you can find and point to a more up-to-date one, but am certain the same text will apply to VAR referrals.

Given the criteria for 'referral' to RRA, I would expect/hope that was the case!
		
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Considering that since the start of the 20-21 season FIFA and IFAB are in control of VAR I'm surprised the Premier League still tries to say anything of its own about VAR, that is all.

On the second point, if the final decision is the referee's do you think we should have seen a VAR overturn rejected by a referee in the 21-22 season by now? Given that many incidents are subjective it seems highly significant that we haven't.


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			...
On the second point, if the final decision is the referee's do you think we should have seen a VAR overturn rejected by a referee in the 21-22 season by now? Given that many incidents are subjective it seems highly significant that we haven't.
		
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Re-read (2nd part of) post 26539!
Or 26535!

In simple terms...No!
Do the terms “clear and obvious errors” or “serious missed incidents” leave any room for doubt?

And, as I've mentioned/implied several times before....We don't get stats of VAR checks where there's _agreement_ with Ref's ruling - so that 'taints' the process somewhat.

FWIW...I do wish Ref HAD rejected the 'upgrade' of Dawson card yesterday (or VAR decided it was only a Yellow !) I'm certain we'd have scraped a point!


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## greenone (Apr 25, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Considering that since the start of the 20-21 season FIFA and IFAB are in control of VAR I'm surprised the Premier League still tries to say anything of its own about VAR, that is all.

On the second point, if the final decision is the referee's do you think we should have seen a VAR overturn rejected by a referee in the 21-22 season by now? Given that many incidents are subjective it seems highly significant that we haven't.
		
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Nothing unusual about it, just look at when someone is charged by the FA, when was the last time someone was found to be not guilty?


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Then it probably did, and determined NOT to be a “clear and obvious error” or “serious missed incident”! In other words...that the Ref was right!
Of course, and perhaps somewhat unfortunately, there don't appear to be stats on the number of those.
		
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That goes back to my very original point. It was nothing to do with whether anyone thinks it was a penalty or not. The point I was making was that the ref never gave VAR the chance to look at it. The ball went out of play immediately, and Liverpool put the ball back in play immediately after that.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Er no.

You want refs who are in good enough positions to judge, to have their decisions checked.

It’s my understanding that as the game is being played, the VAR is in direct communication with the on field ref. I would assume that yesterday’s non foul was communicated and that’s why Atwell never halted play.
		
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See my previous point. There was no time for this to happen, hence why I raised the point in the first place.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Do the terms “clear and obvious errors” or “serious missed incidents” leave any room for doubt?
		
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Yes of course they do. There is massive disparity on what "clear and obvious" means subjectively. Two referees can and do disagree over the exact same incident all the time. Why is the VAR always right this season? It's not because they've put better referees in Stockley! It must be something else, so what is it?


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Yes of course they do. There is massive disparity on what "clear and obvious" means subjectively. Two referees can and do disagree over the exact same incident all the time. Why is the VAR always right this season? It's not because they've put better referees in Stockley! It must be something else, so what is it?
		
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I think the quote was Foxholer, not myself, in case you are looking for his reply.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			See my previous point. There was no time for this to happen, hence why I raised the point in the first place.
		
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There was 15 seconds between the incident and the restart of play.

More than enough time.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			There was 15 seconds between the incident and the restart of play.

More than enough time.
		
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Haha, of course it is (given how long we have seen many VAR reviews take in the past). Especially for an incident in which all 3 Sky pundits agreed it should have been a penalty, Carragher calling it a stone wall penalty. Fair enough if you want to disagree, like the ref did in the heat of the moment. But, personally, I do not see 15 seconds long enough for VAR to review it. Why?


How long does it take the VAR to react that there may be an incident to review at all? A second or 2?
How long before they can set up the video, to play it from the start?
How long before they view that video in normal speed and slow motion?
How long before they look at the video of other angles?
A lot to do in 15 seconds.


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That goes back to my very original point. It was nothing to do with whether anyone thinks it was a penalty or not. The point I was making was that the ref never gave VAR the chance to look at it. The ball went out of play immediately, and Liverpool put the ball back in play immediately after that.
		
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I'm pretty certain there'll be protocols and facilities to cover that - as it's one of the obvious areas where 'issues' could and do arise.
Edit. 15 seconds is tight, but exponentially more than the on-field Ref has and their 'get/got-it-right' percentage is very high!


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## Jensen (Apr 25, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Conte's system doesn't allow for an Eriksen though. That's why he has Bentancur, who's meant to provide that sort of creativity but from a deeper position.
		
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I know which one I’d prefer, and it’s more pleasing on the eye !!


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think the quote was Foxholer, not myself, in case you are looking for his reply.
		
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No idea how that happened, I've edited it now.


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## DanFST (Apr 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



@DanFST - still valid ?
		
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Gladly, will get that sorted


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Haha, of course it is (given how long we have seen many VAR reviews take in the past). Especially for an incident in which all 3 Sky pundits agreed it should have been a penalty, Carragher calling it a stone wall penalty. Fair enough if you want to disagree, like the ref did in the heat of the moment. But, personally, I do not see 15 seconds long enough for VAR to review it. Why?


How long does it take the VAR to react that there may be an incident to review at all? A second or 2?
How long before they can set up the video, to play it from the start?
How long before they view that video in normal speed and slow motion?
How long before they look at the video of other angles?
A lot to do in 15 seconds.
		
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15 seconds is enough for the VAR to tell the onfield ref  to halt play. 👍


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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			15 seconds is enough for the VAR to tell the onfield ref  to halt play. 👍
		
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Well then, I'm guessing the VAR chap was asleep at the time of the incident.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well then, I'm guessing the VAR chap was asleep at the time of the incident.
		
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Or he looked at the incident, he thought as a professional arbiter of the laws of the the game it wasnt a foul.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Last word to Dale Johnson? Rather than just Twitter he now has a regular and very useful Monday VAR Review piece. 

I don't think anyone here has recalled how Mike Riley / PGMOL changed the threshold for penalties in the Premier League this season?




*VAR review: *A lot of people may feel this should have been a penalty to Everton, and there is no doubt it wouldn't have been overturned had Attwell pointed to the spot. Which of course brings us, once again, to the high threshold in the Premier League.

We've seen many incidents like this across the season, and it's not too dissimilar to the first incident between Elanga and Tavares in the Arsenal vs. Man United game.

There isn't definitive evidence in the replays of a clear foul by Matip, even with the arm on the shoulder, which is why the VAR chose not to advise a pitchside review for a penalty. It does appear to be consistent with other such VAR decisions.
		
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## Swango1980 (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Or he looked at the incident, he thought as a professional arbiter of the laws of the the game it wasnt a foul.
		
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I guess you are comfortable using that excuse when you agree with the decision. Doesn't work so well when you don't agree with the decision though.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess you are comfortable using that excuse when you agree with the decision. Doesn't work so well when you don't agree with the decision though.
		
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I've learned to accept the decisions that go against us. Also its blatantly obvious that VAR isnt the saviour of football that was promised. 

Refs,players,managers all make mistakes.

If managers keep making same mistakes they get sacked.

If players keep making same mistakes they get sold.

If refs make same mistakes they get promotion.


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Last word to Dale Johnson? Rather than just Twitter he now has a regular and very useful Monday VAR Review piece.
...
		
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Excellent 'blog'. From earlier posting of his, in 20/21 only 5 of the 128 VAR 'reviews' were rejected. There have been 107 reviews this season (up to March 31). So little real change imo. It's possible that the reduction of rejections is simply everyone getting better acquainted with 'the system'.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 25, 2022)

Just seen the penalty “ incident” that Everton never got. Personally I thought it was nailed on and that’s another penalty that has not gone Everton’s way. Remember City earlier this season. What I cannot understand is how that did not go to VAR. The onfield ref I can understand how he never saw a shove. But how did VAR not see that. Again not VARs best day, and again as I have said, Bad referees running VAR with no Footballing input.
Just seen the clip on SKY and Dermot Reeve talks about theatrics In going down. Look at the theatrics in Matip after the
 “ challenge”. 
That said, it’s now history and two bad decisions against Everton is not the reason they are in a relegation battle.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 25, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just seen the penalty “ incident” that Everton never got. Personally I thought it was nailed on and that’s another penalty that has not gone Everton’s way. Remember City earlier this season. What I cannot understand is how that did not go to VAR. The onfield ref I can understand how he never saw a shove. But how did VAR not see that. Again not VARs best day, and again as I have said, Bad referees running VAR with no Footballing input.
Just seen the clip on SKY and Dermot Reeve talks about theatrics In going down. Look at the theatrics in Matip after the
“ challenge”.
That said, it’s now history and two bad decisions against Everton is not the reason they are in a relegation battle.
		
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The dive from the Everton player earlier in the game probably went against him.
Mane also a lucky boy.
Not the best performance from the officials.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 25, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just seen the penalty “ incident” that Everton never got. Personally I thought it was nailed on and that’s another penalty that has not gone Everton’s way. Remember City earlier this season. What I cannot understand is how that did not go to VAR. The onfield ref I can understand how he never saw a shove. But how did VAR not see that. Again not VARs best day, and again as I have said, Bad referees running VAR with no Footballing input.
Just seen the clip on SKY and Dermot Reeve talks about theatrics In going down. Look at the theatrics in Matip after the
“ challenge”.
That said, it’s now history and two bad decisions against Everton is not the reason they are in a relegation battle.
		
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The position might be slightly better though. 1 point could be the winning margin to win the league. It could also be the difference to send a team down. This year more than ever. Being that low is still our own fault though.


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			in 20/21 only 5 of the 128 VAR 'reviews' were rejected. There have been 107 reviews this season (up to March 31). So little real change imo.
		
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We are told that referees on field have the final decision and it is impossible for VAR to be 100% accurate due to subjective laws and incidents.

Rejected overturns are significant because it means the above statements hold true and proves by demonstration that a final decision rests with the on field referee.

If there are zero rejected overturns, like this season so far, there's no evidence referees are making the final decision and VAR must be 100% accurate.

It's very simple really. We all know VAR could be wrong, so why aren't we seeing it? The referees are no different. What's changed? Something doesn't add up.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 25, 2022)

Palace against Leeds getting nice and fiery. Just need some decent football to break out now


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## fundy (Apr 25, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Palace against Leeds getting nice and fiery. Just need some decent football to break out now
		
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darren england utterly clueless, game will only get worse if he doesnt get a grip (he wont), ayling and zaha should both be in the book, as should mateta, england not seen most of whats gone on lol


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## BiMGuy (Apr 25, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Palace against Leeds getting nice and fiery. *Just need some decent football to break out now*

Click to expand...

Very little chance of that happening!


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			darren england utterly clueless, game will only get worse if he doesnt get a grip (he wont), ayling and zaha should both be in the book, as should mateta, england not seen most of whats gone on lol
		
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Zaha, talented looking player. Not a 'diver' so much as a 'leaper'! Needs 10 mins wth Chopper Harris on the practice pitch to sort him out!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			darren england utterly clueless, game will only get worse if he doesnt get a grip (he wont), ayling and zaha should both be in the book, as should mateta, england not seen most of whats gone on lol
		
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How is he a FIFA ref? Shocking


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## Foxholer (Apr 25, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			We are told that referees on field have the final decision and it is impossible for VAR to be 100% accurate due to subjective laws and incidents.

Rejected overturns are significant because it means the above statements hold true and proves by demonstration that a final decision rests with the on field referee.

If there are zero rejected overturns, like this season so far, there's no evidence referees are making the final decision and VAR must be 100% accurate.

It's very simple really. We all know VAR could be wrong, so why aren't we seeing it? The referees are no different. What's changed? Something doesn't add up.
		
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Most of the inferences above are simply illogical! The Referees ARE agreeing with VAR - which is the final decision. 
Is 5 fewer in 120-ish reviews significant? Not really!
I suspect there's been a lot more 'training'/co-ordination from all involved, so 'conflicts' are less likely to happen.
Maybe they should have organised 1 or 2 review/rejections to ensure cynics don't challenge the 'improved performance'!


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## Jimaroid (Apr 25, 2022)

Feel free to carry on editing your reply but can you let us know when you’ve settled on your final draft? You’ll look much less like an insufferable bellend that way.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			How is he a FIFA ref? Shocking
		
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You should know H, they hand refs badges out to anyone 😉


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## Leftitshort (Apr 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You should know H, they hand refs badges out to anyone 😉
		
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Refereeing must be a really hard job. I’ve got nothing but respect for anyone who would do it, especially at lower league level.


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## Beezerk (Apr 26, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			Refereeing must be a really hard job. I’ve got nothing but respect for anyone who would do it, especially at lower league level.
		
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Refs are just those kids at school who loved football but were absolutely useless at it 😂


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## Foxholer (Apr 26, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Refs are just those kids at school who loved football but were absolutely useless at it 😂
		
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In my case (Hockey), it was getting p-ed off with bad refs (umpires) and having a 'put up or shut up' approach to whingers! Turned out to be loads of fun and was eventually told 'You're a far better Umpire than you are a Player, so concentrate on Umpiring'. I continued to do both though, as I also did with Tennis.


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## chrisd (Apr 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			darren england utterly clueless, game will only get worse if he doesnt get a grip (he wont), ayling and zaha should both be in the book, as should mateta, england not seen most of whats gone on lol
		
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I think the ref got too excited by the new doctrine of " keep the game flowing" I cant believe Ayling didnt get about 4 bookings !


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## Foxholer (Apr 26, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I think the ref got too excited by the new doctrine of " keep the game flowing" I cant believe Ayling didnt get about 4 bookings !
		
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And Zaha should have been booked a couple of times in the first half too. I didn't bother watching the 2nd half...seemed a good decision.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 26, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Refs are just those kids at school who loved football but were absolutely useless at it 😂
		
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Disagree, they need to start a scheme for academy players who don't make the grade to go into referring.. then they would understand the game more


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## Swango1980 (Apr 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Disagree, they need to start a scheme for academy players who don't make the grade to go into referring.. *then they would understand the game more*

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Just like all of us...


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## greenone (Apr 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Disagree, they need to start a scheme for academy players who don't make the grade to go into referring.. then they would understand the game more
		
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They need to make academy players go and referee junior matches. It would improve player behaviour if they had experience from the other side of the coin.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 26, 2022)

greenone said:



			They need to make academy players go and referee junior matches. It would improve player behaviour if they had experience from the other side of the coin.
		
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When I played club hockey one of us would often have to umpire one of the lower teams if they followed us. It certainly gives you a better appreciation of the job, and rules.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 26, 2022)

City v Real Madrid looks a cracker tonight. Will Benzema do it again or can City nick a result to take to Spain. Think Real will be too strong over two legs


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 26, 2022)

Strong rumours on Social Media that Haaland to Man City is a done deal. 4 year contract at £500k per week wages + add ons and bonuses. If that turns out to be true then I'm glad I don't support a PL team. Unless he gets injured I can't see anyone getting close to City for the next few years. Does seem strange that it's only a 4 year contract rather than 5 or 6 for a player that age. Would that indicate that Haaland is looking at it as a short term move with a view to moving on to Real Madrid in 3 or 4 years time?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 26, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Strong rumours on Social Media that Haaland to Man City is a done deal. 4 year contract at £500k per week wages + add ons and bonuses. If that turns out to be true then I'm glad I don't support a PL team. Unless he gets injured I can't see anyone getting close to City for the next few years. Does seem strange that it's only a 4 year contract rather than 5 or 6 for a player that age. Would that indicate that Haaland is looking at it as a short term move with a view to moving on to Real Madrid in 3 or 4 years time?
		
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Very possibly. I imagine any release clause will be astronomical anyway. Not sure Haaland is the missing piece and although it should give them fire power to match Liverpools I am not sure they are as good at stopping them at the other end


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 26, 2022)

What a start for City.
Not a bad player that KDB.


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2022)

Utter quality from City, maybe Pep could teach Arteta how to cope without a full back lol

City and Liverpool way ahead of the rest of Europe not just the rest of the prem and no doubt both will strengthen again this summer

Edit: albeit Pep not got the best track record spending 50m on a left back


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## SteveW86 (Apr 26, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			City v Real Madrid looks a cracker tonight. Will Benzema do it again or can City nick a result to take to Spain. Think Real will be too strong over two legs
		
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15 minutes in and this is looking like another Homer curse


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Utter quality from City, maybe Pep could teach Arteta how to cope without a full back lol

City and Liverpool way ahead of the rest of Europe not just the rest of the prem and no doubt both will strengthen again this summer

Edit: albeit Pep not got the best track record spending 50m on a left back 

Click to expand...

Agree that City and Liverpool are above the rest.
But have the top Italian,Spanish & German teams ever been as poor as they are now?


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## nickjdavis (Apr 26, 2022)

Its like a bloody morgue at the Etihad.


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2022)

City should be out of sight here


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## nickjdavis (Apr 26, 2022)

They need to get a couple more as I can see Madrid grabbing a couple the way City have gifted them chances at the back.??

5-2 ??
6-3 ??

who knows how this might end up!!!


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2022)

brilliant from Benzema


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			City should be out of sight here
		
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They are not now unfortunately


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2022)

Pep auditioning another full back lol


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## pauljames87 (Apr 26, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			They are not now unfortunately
		
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He really is world class. 34? Really? What a player


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 26, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			15 minutes in and this is looking like another Homer curse
		
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Might have gone a bit soon there pal. Real playing back into it and with Benzema you have a man who knows where the goal is. City have had more than enough chances even after the Real goal to be three or four up


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## SteveW86 (Apr 26, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Might have gone a bit soon there pal. Real playing back into it and with Benzema you have a man who knows where the goal is. City have had more than enough chances even after the Real goal to be three or four up
		
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Can certainly see more goals coming. City should have been 4 up, imagine Mahrez will get a bollocking in the dressing room.


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2022)

be 6-6 this in half an hr lol


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## Swango1980 (Apr 26, 2022)

This game being played in a much better spirit than the Athletico game


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## nickjdavis (Apr 26, 2022)

Ref deserves an assist for that goal. Put his whistle to his lips and walked over to where the "foul" took place. No wonder half the Madrid team stopped.


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## nickjdavis (Apr 26, 2022)

Big Balls Benzema!!!!!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 26, 2022)

What a hard faced fecker Benzema is🤣🤣🤣


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 26, 2022)

Been some cracking games recently 🙌


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Big Balls Benzema!!!!!
		
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more stones than john lol


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## Stuart_C (Apr 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			more stones than john lol
		
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Bravo sir 👏👏


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2022)

Cant defend wont defend footie. Great for the neutral. Be none of that tomorrow night lol


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## Stuart_C (Apr 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Cant defend wont defend footie. Great for the neutral. Be none of that tomorrow night lol
		
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I hope not!!


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope not!!
		
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Dick be having none of it


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## backwoodsman (Apr 26, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Might have gone a bit soon there pal. Real playing back into it and with Benzema you have a man who knows where the goal is. City have had more than enough chances even after the Real goal to be three or four up
		
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Homer, what on earth are (were?) you watching tonight ...  Wrong game, surely


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## Stuart_C (Apr 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Dick be having none of it 

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They cant be no deeper than our bloooo bretheren were on sunday


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## Orikoru (Apr 27, 2022)

Benzema seems to be improving with age, similar to Ibrahimovic. Not so long ago people were saying he wasn't a consistent goalscorer. Perhaps he was just in Ronaldo's shadow and forced to assist him rather than lead the line himself. His previous best for goals in a season (all comps) was 32, he's now on 41!


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## Swango1980 (Apr 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Benzema seems to be improving with age, similar to Ibrahimovic. Not so long ago people were saying he wasn't a consistent goalscorer. Perhaps he was just in Ronaldo's shadow and forced to assist him rather than lead the line himself. His previous best for goals in a season (all comps) was 32, he's now on 41! 

Click to expand...

I think he has always been an unbelievable player. However, for a significant amount of his career he just so happened to play with one of the greatest footballers in the history of the game. So, of course Ronaldo would have been the key man in scoring goals in that time, and taking penalties and free kicks. (i.e. I agree with your third sentence).

I think it is now simply a case that, now Ronaldo has left and Madrid have looked to find a way to play without him, Benzema has now become the key man. I don't think he is any better, I just think he is now in a position in the team he can now shine. I don't watch any of the Spanish league, but would be interesting to know how many of his goals are penalties (or even free kicks), as he'd not have been able to add those to his tally when Ronaldo was at the club anyway.


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## Orikoru (Apr 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think he has always been an unbelievable player. However, for a significant amount of his career he just so happened to play with one of the greatest footballers in the history of the game. So, of course Ronaldo would have been the key man in scoring goals in that time, and taking penalties and free kicks. (i.e. I agree with your third sentence).

I think it is now simply a case that, now Ronaldo has left and Madrid have looked to find a way to play without him, Benzema has now become the key man. I don't think he is any better, I just think he is now in a position in the team he can now shine. I don't watch any of the Spanish league, but would be interesting to know how many of his goals are penalties (or even free kicks), as he'd not have been able to add those to his tally when Ronaldo was at the club anyway.
		
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https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/karim-benzema/elfmetertore/spieler/18922

Scored 10 and missed 4 this season according to that!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 27, 2022)

Good Ebening.....

I havent seen such a 1 sided game since last sunday😁

Looks like i'll have to brush up on my french.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Good Ebening.....
		
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Were you taught by the bizzie in allo allo?


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## 4LEX (Apr 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/karim-benzema/elfmetertore/spieler/18922

Scored 10 and missed 4 this season according to that!
		
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Benzema has always been class, he's just benefitting from Real dropping down a level or two. They've got very little else upfront without him and he's benefited from that. La Liga is such a sad state of affairs this season, Real have had no rivals. Barca were in crisis for half of the season and have turned a corner and whacked Real 4-0 at home. They've been incredibly lucky in the CL so far too. City will take them apart next week IMO.

But you've got to give huge credit to Benzema, he's done it when it counts and will make France a much better side in the World Cup now his ban has ended.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Were you taught by the bizzie in allo allo?

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No, Delboy😉


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## pokerjoke (Apr 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Good Ebening.....

I havent seen such a 1 sided game since last sunday😁

Looks like i'll have to brush up on my french.
		
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1 foot in the final Stu 
Who do you want 
I quite fancy a Liverpool vs City


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 28, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			1 foot in the final Stu
Who do you want
I quite fancy a Liverpool vs City
		
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I would fancy a Liverpool v Real final. Two devastating forward lines and would arguably more open because of that. That said another English final would always be good and upset UEFA


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			1 foot in the final Stu
Who do you want
I quite fancy a Liverpool vs City
		
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At this point i'm not really bothered. Both great teams, Real are not the Real of old but as they've shown recently they can be dangerous nor can they be written off.

A chance for revenge the Kiev defeat would be good.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I would fancy a Liverpool v Real final. Two devastating forward lines and would arguably more open because of that. That said another English final would always be good and upset UEFA
		
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Eh? Have you missed this seasons games versus City? They've hardly been a borefest.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 28, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I would fancy a Liverpool v Real final. Two devastating forward lines and would arguably more open because of that. That said another English final would always be good and upset UEFA
		
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As much as I want city to win the champs league an all english final is awful. its like a 39th premier league game.. the year spurs vs liverpool was awful


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## adam6177 (Apr 28, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			As much as I want city to win the champs league an all english final is awful. its like a 39th premier league game.. the year spurs vs liverpool was awful
		
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That's what happens when spurs play.


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## Jensen (Apr 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			No, Delboy😉
		
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So you weren’t just “Pissing by”


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## Orikoru (Apr 28, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			As much as I want city to win the champs league an all english final is awful. its like a 39th premier league game.. the year spurs vs liverpool was awful
		
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Game was ruined by that 2nd minute penalty in fairness.  But no, I agree, not really in favour of all-English finals. Seems to take some of the sheen off it.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Game was ruined by that 2nd minute penalty in fairness.  But no, I agree, not really in favour of all-English finals. Seems to take some of the sheen off it.
		
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Agreed. An all Spanish final would be so much more favourable


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## Orikoru (Apr 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Agreed. An all Spanish final would be so much more favourable 

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I suspect it will be Liverpool v City though, and I have to say I think they are the two best teams in Europe so it's fair enough. Real may be top in Spain but the challengers have been embarrassing by the looks of it, it's not a vintage Real team.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I suspect it will be Liverpool v City though, and I have to say I think they are the two best teams in Europe so it's fair enough. Real may be top in Spain but the challengers have been embarrassing by the looks of it, it's not a vintage Real team.
		
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yeah they are the two best teams and deserve it, wont be as good as city vs madrid or liverpool vs madrid but im sure the fans of the clubs wont care


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## Bdill93 (Apr 28, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			yeah they are the two best teams and deserve it, wont be as good as city vs madrid or liverpool vs madrid but im sure the fans of the clubs wont care
		
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To be honest, Id rather see the all english affair!

Stuff Real Madrid, they've won it over 10 times and they're still trying to create the super league!!


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## greenone (Apr 28, 2022)

Klopp signed an extension to 2026.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 28, 2022)

greenone said:



			Klopp signed an extension to 2026.
		
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Great for Liverpool, shame for the rest of us because he has proven how key the right manager is

Since SAF retired and the decline of arsenal both of those clubs have appointed the wrong guy..

Fair play to the Micky mousers employing the right guy and backing him..they have been rewarded


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## pauljames87 (Apr 28, 2022)

Zouma starts. We have gone from a defensive crisis to our strongest 2 on form


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 28, 2022)

greenone said:



			Klopp signed an extension to 2026.
		
Click to expand...

Not surprised as he's been a perfect fit and clearly loves the club and the fans and seems determined to build a legacy to match Shankly and Paisley


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## fundy (Apr 28, 2022)

Good response to a horror start from West ham

Just flicked over to the Chelsea game, some difference in bench strength!!!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2022)

Watching yernited now is like when i was growing up in the 80's, a mediocre outfit😁😁

Chelsea should be 7 nil up


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Watching yernited now is like when i was growing up in the 80's, a mediocre outfit😁😁

Chelsea should be 7 nil up
		
Click to expand...

So, don't watch them.


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2022)

What a load of old .


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## fundy (Apr 28, 2022)

Ronaldo still the problem lol


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2022)

Go, go Ronaldo!


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## Swango1980 (Apr 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			So, don't watch them.
		
Click to expand...

Of course he watches them, he's a Liverpool fan. He probably has MUTV


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ronaldo still the problem lol
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, he's only scored 8 of United's last 9 goals!


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## adam6177 (Apr 28, 2022)

What a joke VAR is. Stamping on someone whilst on the floor is ok now it seems.


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			What a joke VAR is. Stamping on someone whilst on the floor is ok now it seems.
		
Click to expand...

You seriously call that a stamp?


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## adam6177 (Apr 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			You seriously call that a stamp?
		
Click to expand...

Yep clear as day.


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Yep clear as day.
		
Click to expand...

Wow.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 28, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			What a joke VAR is. Stamping on someone whilst on the floor is ok now it seems.
		
Click to expand...

Not if you're a snowflake I guess. Not exactly a Roy Keane on Southgate


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## adam6177 (Apr 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Not if you're a snowflake I guess. Not exactly a Roy Keane on Southgate
		
Click to expand...

I don't like seeing people get stamped on. Anything wrong with that?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			So, don't watch them.
		
Click to expand...

I was looking for the Comedy Channel😁😁


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I was looking for the Comedy Channel😁😁
		
Click to expand...

I think it's Channel 112.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 28, 2022)

I don't think I've ever seen so many crosses just miss an attacker. Remarkable how Chelsea are not winning.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Of course he watches them, he's a Liverpool fan. He probably has MUTV 

Click to expand...

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer😉


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			I think it's Channel 112.
		
Click to expand...

401 on my sky box🤣🤣🤣


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			401 on my sky box🤣🤣🤣
		
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Doh!
I didn't realise it was on Sky, I'm currently using a fairly unreliable stream.


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2022)

Only three more games of dross before the revolution!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			Only three more games of dross before the revolution!
		
Click to expand...

Closed the gap on City though😁


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Closed the gap on City though😁
		
Click to expand...

Marginal gains, my son, marginal gains.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Closed the gap on City though😁
		
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Have a day off La,your banters a bit cringe 😬


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## fundy (Apr 28, 2022)

Wow what an effort from Bowen


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## pauljames87 (Apr 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Wow what an effort from Bowen
		
Click to expand...

Shame it deserved a goal


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## fundy (Apr 28, 2022)

Not a great result must still think they can get something next week. Def need to play the reserves on Sunday though


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## pauljames87 (Apr 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Not a great result must still think they can get something next week. Def need to play the reserves on Sunday though 

Click to expand...

Thought we got it wrong tonight 
4 5 1had served us well all comp we went 5 at back and let in 2

Change of player and formation back to 451 and suddenly we looked dangerous


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## KenL (Apr 28, 2022)

Looking for opinions on this...
This pic was taken at the moment the shot was taken from just outside the box. Decent shot but the 2 attackers appear to make it more difficult for the keeper to have a fair attempt to make a save.
Thoughts?...


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## Swango1980 (Apr 28, 2022)

KenL said:



			Looking for opinions on this...
This pic was taken at the moment the shot was taken from just outside the box. Decent shot but the 2 attackers appear to make it more difficult for the keeper to have a fair attempt to make a save.
Thoughts?...
	View attachment 42415

Click to expand...

On that photo alone, I would say offside then. However, the referees found a way to ignore the rule at the weekend when Xhaka scored against Utd, so what do I know.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2022)

KenL said:



			Looking for opinions on this...
This pic was taken at the moment the shot was taken from just outside the box. Decent shot but the 2 attackers appear to make it more difficult for the keeper to have a fair attempt to make a save.
Thoughts?...
	View attachment 42415

Click to expand...

Offside was my 1st thought.


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## KenL (Apr 28, 2022)

I'm not that fussed as a 1-0 defeat was not a bad result for my team away from home in Europe, but I am baffled as to what is allowed these days.


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## Junior (Apr 29, 2022)

Weird game and atmosphere at OT last night. Chelsea ran rings round us in the first half and we are still are not working hard enough off the ball.  I watch City and Liverpool and when they lose the ball they are all over the opposition.  We let Chelsea carry the ball a third of the pitch , or thread a 25 yard forward pass along the ground before a tackle is even attempted.   A rethink of the formation is required, 2 holding midfielders is dated and tactically managers run rings around our predictable set up. 

Rashford gave no assistance to Telles and Reece James exploited this perfectly.  Whether he was told not to track back or not, the space behind him was ridiculous.  Kante is still one of the best players in the prem.  

Glimmer of light was the back 4 seemed to be more organised and less panicky without Maguire.   Roll on the end of the season.


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## Swango1980 (Apr 29, 2022)

Junior said:



			Weird game and atmosphere at OT last night. Chelsea ran rings round us in the first half and we are still are not working hard enough off the ball.  I watch City and Liverpool and when they lose the ball they are all over the opposition.  We let Chelsea carry the ball a third of the pitch , or thread a 25 yard forward pass along the ground before a tackle is even attempted.   A rethink of the formation is required, 2 holding midfielders is dated and tactically managers run rings around our predictable set up. 

Rashford gave no assistance to Telles and Reece James exploited this perfectly.  Whether he was told not to track back or not, the space behind him was ridiculous.  Kante is still one of the best players in the prem.  

Glimmer of light was the back 4 seemed to be more organised and less panicky without Maguire.   Roll on the end of the season.
		
Click to expand...

For the telly clappers, Gary Neville on commentary described it as embarrassing on numerous occasions. I've no idea what Rashford is up to. He just walks around the pitch, occasionally breaking out into a jog, trying to fake it that he is doing anything with a purpose.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 29, 2022)

KenL said:



			Looking for opinions on this...
This pic was taken at the moment the shot was taken from just outside the box. Decent shot but the 2 attackers appear to make it more difficult for the keeper to have a fair attempt to make a save.
Thoughts?...
	View attachment 42415

Click to expand...

The two defenders are also in line blocking his view.
That’s what someone said in the UTD game when Arsenal scored a similar one.( Not sure who it was.)
The offside rule is as bad as the handball rule nobody seems to understand it. Even the refs.
But imo that should be offside.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			For the telly clappers, Gary Neville on commentary described it as embarrassing on numerous occasions. I've no idea what Rashford is up to. He just walks around the pitch, occasionally breaking out into a jog, trying to fake it that he is doing anything with a purpose.
		
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That’s the managers fault then.!
He should not be playing if he’s not even putting in the effort.


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## Neilds (Apr 29, 2022)

Big weekend for the Mighty Millers this weekend in League 1.  Final game against Gillingham and can still finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd!  Don't think it is likely we will go up as Champions as Wigan have a distinct advantage but we have, on paper, an easier game than MK Dons but no doubt Gillingham will be fighting for their League 1 lives and won't roll over.  Hope we get it done early and don't suffer the late heartbreak of last season when Swansea equalised in the 88th minute to send us down.  Fingers crossed for the right set of results


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## Beezerk (Apr 29, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Big weekend for the Mighty Millers this weekend in League 1.  Final game against Gillingham and can still finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd!  Don't think it is likely we will go up as Champions as Wigan have a distinct advantage but we have, on paper, an easier game than MK Dons but no doubt Gillingham will be fighting for their League 1 lives and won't roll over.  Hope we get it done early and don't suffer the late heartbreak of last season when Swansea equalised in the 88th minute to send us down.  Fingers crossed for the right set of results
		
Click to expand...

You’ve certainly made a mess of the final run in, I didn’t even get a text from my brother the other week when we beat MK Dons for you 😂
Good luck tomorrow 👍


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## Neilds (Apr 29, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			You’ve certainly made a mess of the final run in, I didn’t even get a text from my brother the other week when we beat MK Dons for you 😂
Good luck tomorrow 👍
		
Click to expand...

All the top 3 have had a little stumble in the last few weeks - Wigan haven't won in last 5, losing 2 and MK Dons have lost 2 out of last 3.  Hopefully we have turned the corner at the right time


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 29, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Big weekend for the Mighty Millers this weekend in League 1.  Final game against Gillingham and can still finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd!  Don't think it is likely we will go up as Champions as Wigan have a distinct advantage but we have, on paper, an easier game than MK Dons but no doubt Gillingham will be fighting for their League 1 lives and won't roll over.  Hope we get it done early and don't suffer the late heartbreak of last season when Swansea equalised in the 88th minute to send us down.  Fingers crossed for the right set of results
		
Click to expand...

Hope you don’t win, and the Gills take the points.


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## Neilds (Apr 29, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Hope you don’t win, and the Gills take the points.
		
Click to expand...


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## Billysboots (Apr 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s the managers fault then.!
He should not be playing if he’s not even putting in the effort.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect he only got a start last night because there was a lack of alternative options owing to injury, illness and Greenwood’s alleged sense of entitlement to do what he wants, when he wants, with anyone he wants. Otherwise Rashford would never get a start in a United shirt again. 

The rumours are now emerging that Arsenal are keen on signing him. Always said he was another Danny Wellbeck. That just proves my point.


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## fundy (Apr 29, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I suspect he only got a start last night because there was a lack of alternative options owing to injury, illness and Greenwood’s alleged sense of entitlement to do what he wants, when he wants, with anyone he wants. Otherwise Rashford would never get a start in a United shirt again.

The rumours are now emerging that Arsenal are keen on signing him. Always said he was another Danny Wellbeck. That just proves my point.
		
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lol thats the 22nd supposed forward were signing this summer, dont believe every bs story in the press lol, not close to the type of striker arteta needs for his system


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## Bdill93 (Apr 29, 2022)

All I'm saying is if we dont beat Norwich ill be angry  I wont be calling for Gerrards head as im sure some idiots on twitter will - but angry none the less. 

Wasted season for Villa this year, pathetic since February. Would like to see us have a pragmatic summer, sell the dead wood and sign key components that actually enable us to play to Gerrards philosophy.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			All I'm saying is if we dont beat Norwich ill be angry  I wont be calling for Gerrards head as im sure some idiots on twitter will - but angry none the less.

Wasted season for Villa this year, pathetic since February. Would like to see us have a pragmatic summer, *sell the dead wood and sign key components that actually enable us to play to Gerrards philosophy*.
		
Click to expand...

Easier said than done. 

The idiots will always surface on twitter, its the accredited journo's who annoy me more. I remember when there was a chart comparing Rodgers 1st 75 games v Klopps and because Rodgers had a better win ratio and or points tally, some were questioning whether Klopp had improved Liverpool🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Bdill93 (Apr 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Easier said than done.

The idiots will always surface on twitter, its the accredited journo's who annoy me more. I remember when there was a chart comparing Rodgers 1st 75 games v Klopps and because Rodgers had a better win ratio and or points tally, some were questioning whether Klopp had improved Liverpool🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Honestly the sheer embarrasment the twitter brigade bring me hurts me to the core!


Theres only 5/6 players to ship out at villa. El Ghazi, Traore, Wesley, Trezeguet to name a few. Just not going to make it into this team and dont need to be paying their wages any longer. (Obviously some currently out on loan but will return)

We need a real CDM, a CB and a ball playing midfielder to compete with McGinn and Ramsey. Quite happy with the winger/ striker options myself but wont complain if we dont make any signings there. Ill give Bailey another year before hes on the chopping block, but hes been really disappointing.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



*Honestly the sheer embarrasment the twitter brigade bring me hurts me to the core!*


Theres only 5/6 players to ship out at villa. El Ghazi, Traore, Wesley, Trezeguet to name a few. Just not going to make it into this team and dont need to be paying their wages any longer. (Obviously some currently out on loan but will return)

We need a real CDM, a CB and a ball playing midfielder to compete with McGinn and Ramsey. Quite happy with the winger/ striker options myself but wont complain if we dont make any signings there. Ill give Bailey another year before hes on the chopping block, but hes been really disappointing.
		
Click to expand...

In a weird way, i enjoy it at times 😁 

It won't be long til Gerrard is compared to Dean Smith. 

Most managers need time, unfortunately they dont always get it, like Rafa at Everton😉


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## Swango1980 (Apr 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s the managers fault then.!
He should not be playing if he’s not even putting in the effort.
		
Click to expand...

As Billy said, there are no real alternatives. Rashford isn't the only one that doesn't put in a shift anyway. I'm always a little surprised Lingard or Mata never get more of an opportunity. But, we've no idea what they show in training. Maybe their attitude is even worse, well at least in Lingards case.


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## Billysboots (Apr 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol thats the 22nd supposed forward were signing this summer, dont believe every bs story in the press lol, not close to the type of striker arteta needs for his system
		
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Will you take him if I pay his bus fare? Please?


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## Scoobiesnax (Apr 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			In a weird way, i enjoy it at times 😁

It won't be long til Gerrard is compared to Dean Smith.

Most managers need time, unfortunately they dont always get it, like Rafa at Everton😉
		
Click to expand...

Rafa only needed a few more weeks to make sure they went down.  If Everton do go down, there'll be a "Scooby Doo" reveal and Lampard was Rafa all along


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol thats the 22nd supposed forward were signing this summer, dont believe every bs story in the press lol, not close to the type of striker arteta needs for his system
		
Click to expand...

Apparently you are also getting DCL from us as well 🤷‍♂️


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## Billysboots (Apr 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Apparently you are also getting DCL from us as well 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

I hate press rumours. United get linked with anyone and everyone. I say to my lad every transfer window, let’s just wait and see what happens.


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## Bdill93 (Apr 29, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I hate press rumours. United get linked with anyone and everyone. I say to my lad every transfer window, let’s just wait and see what happens.
		
Click to expand...

McGinn has been heading your way for about 2 seasons now!


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			As Billy said, there are no real alternatives. Rashford isn't the only one that doesn't put in a shift anyway. I'm always a little surprised Lingard or Mata never get more of an opportunity. But, we've no idea what they show in training. Maybe their attitude is even worse, well at least in Lingards case.
		
Click to expand...

Havnt you got a young lad in the club , what’s happened to your academy?
They would relish the chance. 
Wait , you don’t win nothing with kids


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## pauljames87 (Apr 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Havnt you got a young lad in the club , what’s happened to your academy?
They would relish the chance.
Wait , you don’t win nothing with kids 

Click to expand...

They have but he is suspended atm


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2022)

😂😂


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 29, 2022)

My Forest fan mate can’t name the Forest player in this photo, any idea who it is?


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			My Forest fan mate can’t name the Forest player in this photo, any idea who it is?

View attachment 42421

Click to expand...

Without googling, I think it’s Jason Lee. I know they had another lad who looked like him but I can’t think of his name.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2022)

my attempt to name them all without googling.

Whittle?, Sharpe, Daley,Jones, Wright, Wark,Flowers, Sherwood, Pass, Sutton,Segers, pass, Pass, Durie, Hillier, Lee,Ritchie, Salako, Sinnot?, pass, strachan, Beardsley.


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## babylonsinger (Apr 29, 2022)

Looks like Gary Charles. Too early for Jason Lee with it being before the first premier league season


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			My Forest fan mate can’t name the Forest player in this photo, any idea who it is?

View attachment 42421

Click to expand...

Could it be Gary Charles, the guy Gazza fouled when he did his knee in?


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## babylonsinger (Apr 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			my attempt to name them all without googling.

Whittle?, Sharpe, Daley,Jones, Wright, Wark,Flowers, Sherwood, Pass, Sutton,Segers, pass, Pass, Durie, Hillier, Lee,Ritchie, Salako, Sinnot?, pass, strachan, Beardsley.
		
Click to expand...

Hirst is the SW player? Sinton the QPR. Is the Cov lad David Busst who had that awful injury at Old Trafford?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2022)

Scoobiesnax said:



			Rafa only needed a few more weeks to make sure they went down.  If Everton do go down, there'll be a "Scooby Doo" reveal and Lampard was Rafa all along 

Click to expand...

Luckily Rafa won them points they did, imagine the mess they’d have been in without them. Lampard was the right man at the wrong time.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2022)

babylonsinger said:



			Hirst is the SW player? *Sinton the QPR.* Is the Cov lad David Busst who had that awful injury at Old Trafford?
		
Click to expand...

Argh yes that’s right. Didn’t whittle play for Villa?🤦
I knew the face just couldn’t get the name. He signed for Spurs not long after iirc.

I thought Busst was a bald fella


----------



## babylonsinger (Apr 29, 2022)

On second looks the Norwich player isn't Sutton either. Ian Butterworth who was our assistant for a while


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2022)

babylonsinger said:



			Looks like Gary Charles. Too early for Jason Lee with it being before the first premier league season
		
Click to expand...

I thought Charles was a bit older.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2022)

babylonsinger said:



			On second looks the Norwich player isn't Sutton either. Ian Butterworth who was our assistant for a while
		
Click to expand...

Good spot, I wouldn’t have got that. I remember the name from collecting the footie stickers, he was in most packs😁😁


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Without googling, I think it’s Jason Lee. I know they had another lad who looked like him but I can’t think of his name.
		
Click to expand...

its definitely  not Lee, he had the dreadlocks and that mad hairdo.

I can’t think of his name who I’m thinking of…..


----------



## babylonsinger (Apr 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			its definitely  not Lee, he had the dreadlocks and that mad hairdo.

I can’t think of his name who I’m thinking of…..
		
Click to expand...

Bryan Roy? Chris Bart Williams? I'm confident it's Charles in the photo


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## Beezerk (Apr 29, 2022)

babylonsinger said:



			Looks like Gary Charles. Too early for Jason Lee with it being before the first premier league season
		
Click to expand...

Yes Gary Charles, great shout 👌
Re Andy Sinton, can’t believe we wasted 5 million on him. A club record at the time iirc and he was possibly the only winger I ever saw who was scared to take defenders on 🙈😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2022)

babylonsinger said:



			Bryan Roy? Chris Bart Williams? I'm confident it's Charles in the photo
		
Click to expand...

None of them,its bugging me now. 

Off to bed, early one tomorrow.


----------



## Steve Wilkes (Apr 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			None of them,its bugging me now.

Off to bed, early one tomorrow.
		
Click to expand...

It's definitely Gary Charles


----------



## Dando (Apr 30, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			My Forest fan mate can’t name the Forest player in this photo, any idea who it is?

View attachment 42421

Click to expand...

I’m going to put that picture on the fridge to keep the kids away


----------



## Slime (Apr 30, 2022)

In other news, Mino Raiola has died!
Although I think he was bad for football and undeniably controversial, at 54yrs old it was far too early.


----------



## Yorkhacker (Apr 30, 2022)

Slime said:



			In other news, Mino Raiola has died!
Although I think he was bad for football and undeniably controversial, at 54yrs old it was far too early.
		
Click to expand...

I'll really miss him... said no football fan/club/manager ever.


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 30, 2022)

Wow Burnley, maybe the talk of dyche losing the dressing room was correct .. seemed mad to let him go when they did and now their flying ..


----------



## Jensen (Apr 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Wow Burnley, maybe the talk of dyche losing the dressing room was correct .. seemed mad to let him go when they did and now their flying ..
		
Click to expand...

Rumour I heard is Dyche has a serious GBH charge hanging over him. Apparently he has had previous….


----------



## Slime (Apr 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Wow Burnley, maybe the talk of dyche losing the dressing room was correct .. seemed mad to let him go when they did and now their flying ..
		
Click to expand...

10 points from the last 4 games, superb performance and they could well stay up.


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 30, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Rumour I heard is Dyche has a serious GBH charge hanging over him. Apparently he has had previous….
		
Click to expand...

Wow if true. Obviously until then he is innocent


----------



## 4LEX (Apr 30, 2022)

Slime said:



			In other news, Mino Raiola has died!
Although I think he was bad for football and undeniably controversial, at 54yrs old it was far too early.
		
Click to expand...

Sad for his family and friends but he helped destroy football and won't be missed in the game. 

City officials visiting him in hospital this week over the Haaland deal shows how merciless football is at the top end these days.


----------



## 4LEX (Apr 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Wow if true. Obviously until then he is innocent
		
Click to expand...

I remember the look he gave me The Lowry in Manchester a few years ago, after I asked him if he was having worms for breakfast


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## pokerjoke (Apr 30, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Rumour I heard is Dyche has a serious GBH charge hanging over him. Apparently he has had previous….
		
Click to expand...

Where did you hear this,usually these things always get out.
Sounds a bit of fake news.
Amazing turnaround for Burnley


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2022)

As you were.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2022)

Steve Wilkes said:



			It's definitely Gary Charles
		
Click to expand...

You obviously know better than me, i cant think of the lads name who i'm thinking about.🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Don Barzini (May 1, 2022)

Steve Wilkes said:



			It's definitely Gary Charles
		
Click to expand...

100% definitely Gary Charles. Victim of an absolute horror challenge by Paul Gascoigne in the 1991 FA Cup final. One for which, despite his own injury, Gascoigne should have been sent off for. Second red card offence he’d committed in that game yet miraculously his team were not punished by being reduced to ten men.

Never had any sympathy for Gascoigne for the injury he sustained himself as a result. Purely down to his own stupidity and recklessness and he should have been sent off for it in disgrace, not lauded as some sort of tragic hero.


----------



## Jensen (May 1, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			100% definitely Gary Charles. Victim of an absolute horror challenge by Paul Gascoigne in the 1991 FA Cup final. One for which, despite his own injury, Gascoigne should have been sent off for. Second red card offence he’d committed in that game yet miraculously his team were not punished by being reduced to ten men.

Never had any sympathy for Gascoigne for the injury he sustained himself as a result. Purely down to his own stupidity and recklessness and he should have been sent off for it in disgrace, not lauded as some sort of tragic hero.







Click to expand...

I couldn’t understand why Gascoigne was too fired up for that game. After all he’s played on the biggest stage in the 1990 World Cup before!!!!
Reports were that Gascoigne was like a man possessed beforehand.
He was a naturally gifted talent who didn’t reach the heights that he should’ve.
Personally I think Terry Venables should’ve managed him better and reigned him in.


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## Don Barzini (May 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I couldn’t understand why Gascoigne was too fired up for that game.
		
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With the hindsight of knowing about his various struggles and demons, who knows what chemicals were flowing around in his bloodstream that day?


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## Blue in Munich (May 1, 2022)

Can someone give Kevin Friend an Everton shirt please?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can someone give Kevin Friend an Everton shirt please?
		
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Mmmm, because your lads aren't dishing anything out.......


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## Blue in Munich (May 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mmmm, because your lads aren't dishing anything out.......
		
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Come on then, justify the Everton behaviour towards Azpilicueta when he went to talk to the referee, and Azpilicuta's booking; justify the lack of action against Delph & others for blatant late challenges that even the home commentary team have picked up?


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## Slime (May 1, 2022)

Pickford proving his worth with a couple of absolute stunning saves.
Where has this Everton been all season?


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## Jimaroid (May 1, 2022)

That’ll do.


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## Jensen (May 1, 2022)

Great result for The Ev lar 👍😁


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## Hobbit (May 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Come on then, justify the Everton behaviour towards Azpilicueta when he went to talk to the referee, and Azpilicuta's booking; justify the lack of action against Delph & others for blatant late challenges that even the home commentary team have picked up?
		
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As a neutral, I’m surprised Chelsea finished with 11 men and Azpilicuta was first to get a red. The Chelsea players hounded the ref time and again, way more than Everton’s players. Wouldn’t happen in rugby.


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## Blue in Munich (May 1, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			As a neutral, I’m surprised Chelsea finished with 11 men and Azpilicuta was first to get a red. The Chelsea players hounded the ref time and again, way more than Everton’s players. Wouldn’t happen in rugby.
		
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And in their position I'd be demanding an explanation for some of those decisions.


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## clubchamp98 (May 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And in their position I'd be demanding an explanation for some of those decisions.
		
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Agree about Delph.
Havertz could have joined him though.
Thought Pickford was brilliant, but some poor finishing  cost you.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Come on then, justify the Everton behaviour towards Azpilicueta when he went to talk to the referee, and Azpilicuta's booking; justify the lack of action against Delph & others for blatant late challenges that even the home commentary team have picked up?
		
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Azpilicueta had no need to talk to the ref. Mount, I think, committed the foul, yellow card, move on. Azpilicueta then runs towards the ref to get in his face. Why do that, it serves no purpose, other than an attempt to pressure the ref. A couple of Everton players then join in, they shouldn't have. They should have let him implode on his own. He could have gone yellow, yellow in quick succession, all good for us. 

Delph was booked, could have got another, no question. At the same time, Havertz could have walked with him, as could Azpilicueta. 

Your 'clean' team ended with 5 bookings though 😳. 

Huge win for us, huge. One point wasn't enough after Burnley's win. On to Leicester.......


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## Hobbit (May 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And in their position I'd be demanding an explanation for some of those decisions.
		
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And that’s what’s wrong in football, players hounding the ref. I’m all for a team captain being able to ask the questions, respectfully, but no one else. I didn’t see anything wrong with 95% of the decisions for BOTH sides. It’s a contact sport at the business end of the season that saw some robust, strong challenges from BOTH sides. I thought Friend was very restrained and, probably, could have booked a couple more from both sides.

Mrs Hobbit, a closet Chelsea fan, was very disappointed with their behaviour today.


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## clubchamp98 (May 1, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			As a neutral, I’m surprised Chelsea finished with 11 men and Azpilicuta was first to get a red. The Chelsea players hounded the ref time and again, way more than Everton’s players. Wouldn’t happen in rugby.
		
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Rugby refs would just not put up with it.
It’s about time the PL did it and told teams any thing in the refs face and it’s a card. ( choose colour depending on what they say.)
But they won’t !


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## Rlburnside (May 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Azpilicueta had no need to talk to the ref. Mount, I think, committed the foul, yellow card, move on. Azpilicueta then runs towards the ref to get in his face. Why do that, it serves no purpose, other than an attempt to pressure the ref. A couple of Everton players then join in, they shouldn't have. They should have let him implode on his own. He could have gone yellow, yellow in quick succession, all good for us.

Delph was booked, could have got another, no question. At the same time, Havertz could have walked with him, as could Azpilicueta.

Your 'clean' team ended with 5 bookings though 😳.

Huge win for us, huge. One point wasn't enough after Burnley's win. On to Leicester.......
		
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Yes very big win for you I was watching with my bil who’s a Liverpool fan and we were both wanting Everton to win.  

Everton deserved that win they just had more fight about them and won the game the way they wanted to play.


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## Swango1980 (May 1, 2022)

Where has this fight from Everton been all season? Excellent game for Pickford.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes very big win for you I was watching with my bil who’s a Liverpool fan and we were both wanting Everton to win. 

Everton deserved that win they just had more fight about them and won the game the way they wanted to play.
		
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When teams play the top 3 they can't just sit back and applaud their lovely passing. You have to get in their faces, ruffle them up. That doesn't mean kick them about, you can't do that now anyway, but you have to knock them out of their stride. It worked for one half against liverpool last week, it worked all game today. Today we scored and today Pickford had a great game. You need those things to go your way when you are down at the bottom.


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## Blue in Munich (May 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



*Azpilicueta had no need to talk to the ref.* Mount, I think, committed the foul, yellow card, move on. Azpilicueta then runs towards the ref to get in his face. Why do that, it serves no purpose, other than an attempt to pressure the ref. A couple of Everton players then join in, they shouldn't have. They should have let him implode on his own. He could have gone yellow, yellow in quick succession, all good for us.
		
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It's for Azpilicueta to decide whether or not he needs to talk to the referee, and for the referee to tell him he has no case if that is the case; it's not for Coleman or any other Everton player to get involved.  Friend then bottled it & took the easy option.



Lord Tyrion said:



*Delph was booked, could have got another,* no question. At the same time, Havertz could have walked with him, as could Azpilicueta.
		
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the first offence was by far worse & should have been the first booking.



Lord Tyrion said:



*Your 'clean' team ended with 5 bookings though* 😳.

Huge win for us, huge. One point wasn't enough after Burnley's win. On to Leicester.......
		
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Don't believe I ever suggested that our players didn't deserve some of their cards, just that it was one way traffic.


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## IanM (May 1, 2022)

No dog in that fight, but Everton game was highly entertaining!


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## Blue in Munich (May 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When teams play the top 3 they can't just sit back and applaud their lovely passing. You have to get in their faces, ruffle them up. That doesn't mean kick them about, you can't do that now anyway, but you have to knock them out of their stride. It worked for one half against liverpool last week, it worked all game today. Today we scored and today Pickford had a great game. You need those things to go your way when you are down at the bottom.
		
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And those tactics work with a soft ref.  Thanks for making my point.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Where has this fight from Everton been all season? Excellent game for Pickford.
		
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It hasn't just been about 'fight' although at times it certainly has. We've only scored 35 goals in 33 games. That is a huge reason why we are down at the bottom.


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## Blue in Munich (May 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree about Delph.
Havertz could have joined him though.
Thought Pickford was brilliant, but some poor finishing  cost you.
		
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What really cost us was yet again giving the ball away in our own half through poor defending or decision making.  Man Utd at home, Arsenal at home, Real Madrid at home and now Everton away.  And I'd say it was more Pickford than poor finishing but don't disagree with your general point.


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And those tactics work with a soft ref.  Thanks for making my point.
		
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Atwell and Friend.....🤷🏼


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And those tactics work with a soft ref.  Thanks for making my point.
		
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If you think that's the case and that's why you lost then fair enough. I think most will think you are kidding yourself though. 

With the history of Chelsea, from Mourinho onwards, the idea of Chelsea fans complaining about this is pretty darned funny as well.


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## Blue in Munich (May 1, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			And that’s what’s wrong in football, players hounding the ref. *I’m all for a team captain being able to ask the questions, respectfully, but no one else. *I didn’t see anything wrong with 95% of the decisions for BOTH sides. It’s a contact sport at the business end of the season that saw some robust, strong challenges from BOTH sides. I thought Friend was very restrained and, probably, could have booked a couple more from both sides.

Mrs Hobbit, a closet Chelsea fan, was very disappointed with their behaviour today.
		
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And he wasn't afforded that opportunity without trying to fight his way past half the Everton team.  Yet he was booked for trying.


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## fundy (May 1, 2022)

Definitely one of Chelseas best performances for Lampard thats for sure lol

Utterly insipid stuff from Arsenal so far against a stronger than id have expected West Ham side!


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## fundy (May 1, 2022)

Thats better


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## clubchamp98 (May 1, 2022)

that’s a great finish by Bowen.


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## Hobbit (May 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And he wasn't afforded that opportunity without trying to fight his way past half the Everton team.  Yet he was booked for trying.
		
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I guess we were watching different matches, or have different interpretations of what we saw. “Booked for trying,” or what he said when he got there? Suggesting he was booked for trying doesn’t sound like a robust argument… A Premier League ref would book someone for trying to have a conversation??? Sound kinda laughable really…


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## pauljames87 (May 1, 2022)

Wish Bowen wouldn't have dived. That challenge was reckless..studs up. Should have taken it and would be a red. Keepers out of control.


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## Blue in Munich (May 1, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			I guess we were watching different matches, or have different interpretations of what we saw. “Booked for trying,” or what he said when he got there? Suggesting he was booked for trying doesn’t sound like a robust argument… A Premier League ref would book someone for trying to have a conversation??? Sound kinda laughable really…
		
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No, he apparently booked him for trying to get to him to have the conversation, judging by Friend's gestures.  We'll agree to differ in our interpretations.


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## pauljames87 (May 1, 2022)

Fair play arsenal, we clearly had one eye on Thursday but it was an even match and they were better on the day 

Shows how important Dawson is to us ATM (and ogbonna when fit)

One of them on the pitch and least one of them goals doesn't happen..poor marking


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## AmandaJR (May 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Wish Bowen wouldn't have dived. That challenge was reckless..studs up. Should have taken it and would be a red. Keepers out of control.
		
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I felt he didn't dive so much as avoided the contact (which I agree would have been a red as very reckless) and, in doing so, lost balance whilst travelling at pace. With all the ridiculous dives and simulation going on unpunished I thought a yellow was harsh.


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## Neilds (May 1, 2022)

What is it with all the flares at matches nowadays? Most matches I have been to in the last 2-3 years ( only about 10) we have been searched, including one game when my Mrs had to take her bobble hat off to show she had nothing under it! But still these morons seem to get them past ‘security’. Even at Wembley for the Papa Johns Trophy there were flares being let off.


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## Foxholer (May 1, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			...It’s a contact sport...
		
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Far too often it's a '*no* contact' sport though!


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## pauljames87 (May 1, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I felt he didn't dive so much as avoided the contact (which I agree would have been a red as very reckless) and, in doing so, lost balance whilst travelling at pace. With all the ridiculous dives and simulation going on unpunished I thought a yellow was harsh.
		
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Whilst I'm inclined to agree and it should be a red it just seems that's football now 

Never seen arsenal waste so much time against us. Was weird lol 

Felt apart from his well taken goal Bowen was poor today. Gave away the ball that led to the first goal 

Do feel the team had 1 eye on Thursday


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## Foxholer (May 1, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I felt he didn't dive so much as avoided the contact (which I agree would have been a red as very reckless) and, in doing so, lost balance whilst travelling at pace. With all the ridiculous dives and simulation going on unpunished I thought a yellow was harsh.
		
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Still a reckless 'challenge', so Yellow definitely justified. Wouldn't have been surprised if Red because of 'last man', though with no real contact, that would have been a bit harsh.


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## Fade and Die (May 1, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I felt he didn't dive so much as avoided the contact (which I agree would have been a red as very reckless) and, in doing so, lost balance whilst travelling at pace. With all the ridiculous dives and simulation going on unpunished I thought a yellow was harsh.
		
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That’s how I saw it, not a foul but not a booking for diving. But Mike Dean is useless so would expect nothing less.
Also didn’t realise how much I really really hate Arteta, the way he prances up and down the line waving his arms about and the way his team wastes time with fake injuries and general slowing down the game had me raging in the 2nd half! 🤬🤬


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## adam6177 (May 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			team wastes time with fake injuries and general slowing down the game had me raging in the 2nd half! 🤬🤬
		
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This moan isn't directed at arsenal, but what you said here is something I've noticed in games recently.

Players are now wise to the fact that if they go down holding their head, then the game will get stopped pretty much instantly.  Quite often is when their team are under the cosh and they need a breather.

I know Southampton were recently pulled up on something similar that allowed the manager to have a quick pep talk with them.


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			This moan isn't directed at arsenal, but what you said here is something I've noticed in games recently.

*Players are now wise to the fact that if they go down holding their head, then the game will get stopped pretty much instantly.  *Quite often is when their team are under the cosh and they need a breather.

I know Southampton were recently pulled up on something similar that allowed the manager to have a quick pep talk with them.
		
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It's upto the ref's to be stronger and remember those who waste time doing it. 
I laughed when Milner done it yesterday though.


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## fundy (May 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			That’s how I saw it, not a foul but not a booking for diving. But Mike Dean is useless so would expect nothing less.
Also didn’t realise how much I really really hate Arteta, the way he prances up and down the line waving his arms about and the way his team wastes time with fake injuries and general slowing down the game had me raging in the 2nd half! 🤬🤬
		
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youre not alone!!!!

didnt see the 2nd half but hearing we were a tad fortunate to nick the win. hope the team selection doesnt backfire on Moyes on Thursday


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## pauljames87 (May 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			youre not alone!!!!

didnt see the 2nd half but hearing we were a tad fortunate to nick the win. hope the team selection doesnt backfire on Moyes on Thursday
		
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I think he played it well 

Gave zouma a chance to get some match fitness as he been out 

Dawson was suspended so rested 

Antonio had 60 mins rest 

Coufal played well so is staking a claim for the game 

Soucek had a 70 min rest 

Should be able to put our best team out Thursday and go for it


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## fundy (May 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I think he played it well

Gave zouma a chance to get some match fitness as he been out

Dawson was suspended so rested

Antonio had 60 mins rest

Coufal played well so is staking a claim for the game

Soucek had a 70 min rest

Should be able to put our best team out Thursday and go for it
		
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fair enough

If that had been arsenal id have wanted the kids out there, rice, bowen etc shouldve been wrapped in cotton wool. Thurday is your biggest game for decades i wouldnt have wanted my matchwinners risking injury


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## Fade and Die (May 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			youre not alone!!!!

didnt see the 2nd half but hearing we were a tad fortunate to nick the win. hope the team selection doesnt backfire on Moyes on Thursday
		
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I’m afraid due to Moyes inability to strengthen the squad in January and his unwillingness to try the younger players (we are 2nd in the U23 league so surely one or two are worth a try?) he has rather run his 13 regulars into the ground. We are running on empty… Whilst it’s been a good season I think I will reflect on it as being an opportunity missed.


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## fundy (May 1, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I’m afraid due to Moyes inability to strengthen the squad in January and his unwillingness to try the younger players (we are 2nd in the U23 league so surely one or two are worth a try?) he has rather run his 13 regulars into the ground. We are running on empty… Whilst it’s been a good season I think I will reflect on it as being an opportunity missed.
		
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funnily enough, weve taken pretty much the same approach, and it feels bad enough, but that must surely be magnified with the chance you have to win in europe


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## Baldy Bouncer (May 2, 2022)

Story on the back page of this mornings M.E.N. is that the Man U players are going to do a lap of honour after the game tonight.


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## Jimaroid (May 2, 2022)

Love him? Hate him? He might be in trouble but I’m loving it. What a picture. 💙


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## Lord Tyrion (May 2, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Love him? Hate him? He might be in trouble but I’m loving it. What a picture. 💙


View attachment 42441

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It is a great picture, fair play.

He should have left it to the stewards but I'm pretty sure he threw it into a corner where there are no spectators.


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## Dando (May 2, 2022)

Richarlison - the arrogance of Ronaldo with the talent of Maguire


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## Jimaroid (May 2, 2022)

Dando said:



			Richarlison - the arrogance of Ronaldo with the talent of Maguire
		
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He's 100% (Mod Edit)and I don't care because we need it.


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## Jimaroid (May 2, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He should have left it to the stewards but I'm pretty sure he threw it into a corner where there are no spectators.
		
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Yep, I've no idea where he threw it but another example of his questionable judgment. Love his passion but he's such a liability. We need him available and on the pitch don't we? He drives me mad but what is football without characters like him.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 2, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Yep, I've no idea where he threw it but another example of his questionable judgment. Love his passion but he's such a liability. We need him available and on the pitch don't we? He drives me mad but what is football without characters like him.
		
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I'd sell him in a flash in the summer. We can make better use of the money. If he could help keep us up, that would be a good leaving present 😁.

I think we are wasting him, playing him through the middle. Play him out on the left, he impacts much more out there. He is usually anonymous through the middle. (I accept yesterday was different as we needed to neutralise Reece James and that would not be best use of him)


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## clubchamp98 (May 2, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is a great picture, fair play.

He should have left it to the stewards but I'm pretty sure he threw it into a corner where there are no spectators.
		
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He’s not that accurate  ( usually)


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## Stuart_C (May 2, 2022)

See SYP havent changed 🙄

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521069628654501888


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## Pin-seeker (May 2, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520785668183662594
WOW 😳😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (May 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520785668183662594
WOW 😳😂😂
		
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Yes WOW.
But he’s right about the handball at least.


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## nickjdavis (May 2, 2022)

On Sunday, Newcastle United Ladies played at St. James' Park for the very first time.

The team is in the 4th tier of the ladies footballing pyramid.

The average ladies attendance in the 1st tier of ladies football is around 2,000. 

The attendance yesterday at St. James' was 22,134.


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## pauljames87 (May 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520785668183662594
WOW 😳😂😂
		
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Felt like it was  against us yesterday.. the ramsdale challenge then their second goal a handball in the build up arm in air 

But then I remembered Mike Dean was in charge and he is A incompetent and b so arrogant he wouldn't listen to VAR if it corrected him


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## Dando (May 2, 2022)




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## Jimaroid (May 2, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			He's 100% *(Mod Edit) *and I don't care because we need it. 

Click to expand...

Sigh, pathetic. Alright then. He's 100% bollockshouse.


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## fundy (May 2, 2022)

Of the 91 other football league clubs, Mitrovic with 42 goals has scored more goals than 19 of them


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## Piece (May 2, 2022)

Fulham were brilliant just now. Tore Luton a new one. A performance better than a lot of Premier sides


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## fundy (May 2, 2022)

Genuine question for fans? would you rather be a yoyo club ie Fulham/Norwich etc or a side that keeps finishing mid table in the prem ie Southampton (I wouldve used Everton too but you know.....)


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## hairball_89 (May 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Genuine question for fans? would you rather be a yoyo club ie Fulham/Norwich etc or a side that keeps finishing mid table in the prem ie Southampton (I wouldve used Everton too but you know.....)
		
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Who knows, but I do think we should just create a league in between the Championship and the PL for Fulham, Norwich and West Brom!


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## fundy (May 2, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Who knows, but I do think we should just create a league in between the Championship and the PL for Fulham, Norwich and West Brom!
		
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come on, thats mighty harsh not inviting Bournemouth


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## pauljames87 (May 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Of the 91 other football league clubs, Mitrovic with 42 goals has scored more goals than 19 of them 

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So many of our fans turned their noses up at him 

Always have liked him, would be a good option


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## Jensen (May 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Genuine question for fans? would you rather be a yoyo club ie Fulham/Norwich etc or a side that keeps finishing mid table in the prem ie Southampton (I wouldve used Everton too but you know.....)
		
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A team that always finishes mid table.
Chances of a good Cup run. 
In addition always able to see quality opposition in the flesh


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## fundy (May 2, 2022)

Jensen said:



			A team that always finishes mid table.
Chances of a good Cup run.
In addition always able to see quality opposition in the flesh
		
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Ive always said similar but hard to see how its been better being a Saints fan for eg than a Norwich fan for eg the last 10 years.

And for the so called mid table clubs who then dont put  full strength side out in the cup.................


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## Slime (May 2, 2022)




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## Billysboots (May 2, 2022)

United actually knocking it round like United used to. Have I woken up in some parallel universe?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Genuine question for fans? would you rather be a yoyo club ie Fulham/Norwich etc or a side that keeps finishing mid table in the prem ie Southampton (I wouldve used Everton too but you know.....)
		
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My son was a season ticket holder at Newcastle for a spell when they went down and up, £65 for juniors, why not. Newcastle romped the championship that year but he didn't enjoy it. The standard was poor and a win was what should have been happening with the team they had so he didn't hit the heights. He was relieved when they went back up, not sure he would have renewed to watch another season in the championship.

A mid table team will have enough of a mixture of results to have enjoyment, high points and hope. A team coming 4th from bottom every season, may be a tighter call?


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## Billysboots (May 2, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A mid table team will have enough of a mixture of results to have enjoyment, high points and hope.
		
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I’ve not had a whole lot of enjoyment watching my mid table team this season. Or high points. Or hope, come to think of it.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 2, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve not had a whole lot of enjoyment watching my mid table team this season. Or high points. Or hope, come to think of it.
		
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Ha ha. I think it depends what your team / fans is used to as to whether it is acceptable or not.


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## Hobbit (May 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Genuine question for fans? would you rather be a yoyo club ie Fulham/Norwich etc or a side that keeps finishing mid table in the prem ie Southampton (I wouldve used Everton too but you know.....)
		
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I’d prefer mid table in the Prem than yo-yo-ing. Do I want the Boro to go up this season, even if they were to come straight back down? Yes I want them in the Prem, preferably staying there, but even if they got relegated there’s always the hope that is there for most of the season that they’d stay up.

This season has seen some great matches in the championship for the Boro but there’s been some dire opposition to watch too. Even the poorer Prem teams make for better watching than poorer championship teams.

Would I enjoy watching Boro lose almost every week? No, but there’s always the belief they can beat anyone if they have a good day and the opposition stutter.


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## fundy (May 2, 2022)

VAR says no squirrel!!!!!


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## Slime (May 2, 2022)




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## Slime (May 2, 2022)




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## BiMGuy (May 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520785668183662594
WOW 😳😂😂
		
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I wonder what his opinion of Mane getting away with stamping on the keeper at the weekend is? Cos it should have been a straight red.


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## Slime (May 2, 2022)




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## fundy (May 2, 2022)

this ronaldo fella clearly still the problem at Old trafford I see


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## Slime (May 2, 2022)

CR7


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## Dando (May 2, 2022)

Love the Brentford fans singing “we’ll race you back to London”


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## pokerjoke (May 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			this ronaldo fella clearly still the problem at Old trafford I see 

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I believe that was only quotes from people that know nothing about football.


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## Slime (May 2, 2022)




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## fundy (May 2, 2022)

worst protest ever at OT lol, guys holding walk out on 73 mins banners still there 10 mins later lol


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## Slime (May 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			worst protest ever at OT lol, guys holding walk out on 73 mins banners still there 10 mins later lol
		
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They expected Utd to be two down by the 73rd minute .............................. they're just so confused.


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## Slime (May 2, 2022)

Well, where's this team been all season?
I think a lap of honour is a bit embarrassing, especially after this pathetic season.


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## Stuart_C (May 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			worst protest ever at OT lol, guys holding walk out on 73 mins banners still there 10 mins later lol
		
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At least the fans and the players have something in common, both cant organise a defence😉


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## ColchesterFC (May 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Genuine question for fans? would you rather be a yoyo club ie Fulham/Norwich etc or a side that keeps finishing mid table in the prem ie Southampton (I wouldve used Everton too but you know.....)
		
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I'd love to be able to aspire to the level of being a yoyo club rather than praying for mid-table mediocrity instead of a relegation battle every year.


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## Foxholer (May 2, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			At least the fans and the players have something in common, both cant organise a defence😉
		
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Tonight was the best I've seen ManU play in a long time - not that there's been much to compete against. Likely 'inspired' by it being the last match at OT for several. A bit surprising what can inspire footballers!


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## Junior (May 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Well, where's this team been all season?
I think a lap of honour is a bit embarrassing, especially after this pathetic season.
		
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Not really a lap of honour.  More a thank-you to the fans, and, to be honest, this season they should say thank-you for sticking it out despite the poor season. 

Was also nice opportunity for the fans to say goodbye to Mata and Matic.   Mata in particular was a great player and a quality footballer as some of his touches showed last night.  Signing him was one of the few things Moyes did right, although he did then play him on the right wing......


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## pauljames87 (May 3, 2022)

Junior said:



			Not really a lap of honour.  More a thank-you to the fans, and, to be honest, this season they should say thank-you for sticking it out despite the poor season.

Was also nice opportunity for the fans to say goodbye to Mata and Matic.   Mata in particular was a great player and a quality footballer as some of his touches showed last night.  Signing him was one of the few things Moyes did right, although he did then play him on the right wing...... 

Click to expand...

Trait of his 

Fornals class cam

Plays on wing


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## Neilds (May 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Genuine question for fans? would you rather be a yoyo club ie Fulham/Norwich etc or a side that keeps finishing mid table in the prem ie Southampton (I wouldve used Everton too but you know.....)
		
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I am a fan of the ultimate yo-yo team! Rotherham have been either promoted or relegated in each of the past 6 seasons, and I bet we will be amongst the favourites to come down again next season. I pray for mid table 🙏


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## pauljames87 (May 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Genuine question for fans? would you rather be a yoyo club ie Fulham/Norwich etc or a side that keeps finishing mid table in the prem ie Southampton (I wouldve used Everton too but you know.....)
		
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I enjoyed our 3 seasons in the championship.. well 2 in it and 1 in the first division

Play off finals every year

Some cracking games

We did buy everyone's good players tho lol 

Our relegation battles under Sam weren't fun but he started to get us near the top towards end 

Bilic I enjoyed one season, overated manager helped out no end by a true world class player in payet 

The Moyes era is by far my fav since my childhood days of cole, Carrick, Defoe, Di Canio , Sinclair


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## HomerJSimpson (May 3, 2022)

As a Fulham fan, you go up each time with a blind belief (well a ton of hope and many prayers) that you'll stay up. Undoubtedly we made mistakes several seasons ago, buying way too many players and splintering the side that had got promotion. With Parker he simply lacked the tactical nous at that level and the squad was a little thin especially at the back. Silva has more experience, Mitrovic has a manger he likes (I also think he and Parker had a big falling out last season hence his drop off in performances and lack of playing time) and is a man in form for club and country and will be eager to prove the critics wrong. 

Enough sides in the bottom eight that we can hopefully be competitive against and we can often cause one shock result a season against a bigger side. Hopefully this is the time to get another PL run and we avoid second season syndrome


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

rumours that Roman wants his money back from the sale of Chelsea cant be true can they


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I am a fan of the ultimate yo-yo team! Rotherham have been either promoted or relegated in each of the past 6 seasons, and I bet we will be amongst the favourites to come down again next season. I pray for mid table 🙏
		
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Be some achievement to be mid table in the championship, some vastly incomparable budgets across that league that youre on the wrong end of sadly. Plenty of neutrals be pulling for you!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 3, 2022)

Quality set piece for Bournemouth. Very enjoyable game. Pretty even first half but they have dominated the second without really threatening. Until a very clever free kick........


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

Fun 2nd half coming up in Spain  Wonder if we might see a Villareal squirrel lol


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## HomerJSimpson (May 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Quality set piece for Bournemouth. Very enjoyable game. Pretty even first half but they have dominated the second without really threatening. Until a very clever free kick........
		
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Forest haven't shown the same intensity and desire they did against Fulham when they thoroughly deserved their win and made Fulham look average at times. Great set piece


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## Piece (May 3, 2022)

Is this the same Villarreal side that we’re labelled a disgrace by Talksport a few weeks ago? 😲😉


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## SteveW86 (May 3, 2022)

Piece said:



			Is this the same Villarreal side that we’re labelled a disgrace by Talksport a few weeks ago? 😲😉
		
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Not like talksport to offer a sensationalist viewpoint to stir up drama


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## babylonsinger (May 3, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Forest haven't shown the same intensity and desire they did against Fulham when they thoroughly deserved their win and made Fulham look average at times. Great set piece
		
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Not sure I agree with that. Forest were the better side for me first half and should have had the lead. They simply ran out of steam second half. Credit also to Bournemouth and Parker for the improvement after half time


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

Will Macca actually combust if Villareal go 3-2 up? Personally Id like to find out


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## HomerJSimpson (May 3, 2022)

babylonsinger said:



			Not sure I agree with that. Forest were the better side for me first half and should have had the lead. They simply ran out of steam second half. Credit also to Bournemouth and Parker for the improvement after half time
		
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I hope Forest can pick themselves up after the disappointment tonight of not taking it to the last weekend. They are by far away the 3rd best side (arguably the second best on form since Christmas) but need to make sure they get the job done in the play offs.


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

keepers had an utter shocker


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## babylonsinger (May 3, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I hope Forest can pick themselves up after the disappointment tonight of not taking it to the last weekend. They are by far away the 3rd best side (arguably the second best on form since Christmas) but need to make sure they get the job done in the play offs.
		
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Does seem to be a common theme that a team that just fails to go up automatically is unable to pick themselves up for the playoffs. Potential for some nice stories in the playoffs - Forest after 20+ years out of the top flight (and after that dreadful start) and Luton who have had an excellent season


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## HomerJSimpson (May 3, 2022)

Shocker from the lkeper and can't see a Villareal comeback now. I can see Liverpool scoring again and putting this to bed


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

babylonsinger said:



			Does seem to be a common theme that a team that just fails to go up automatically is unable to pick themselves up for the playoffs. Potential for some nice stories in the playoffs - Forest after 20+ years out of the top flight (and after that dreadful start) and Luton who have had an excellent season
		
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my moneys on the yoyo side again lol


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## pauljames87 (May 3, 2022)

babylonsinger said:



			Does seem to be a common theme that a team that just fails to go up automatically is unable to pick themselves up for the playoffs. Potential for some nice stories in the playoffs - Forest after 20+ years out of the top flight (and after that dreadful start) and Luton who have had an excellent season
		
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It's normally a team in form that's made a late surge for the play offs

Love the playoffs so good

We went up 3rd once but should have been second. Billy Sharpe and Southampton playing silly beggers on valentine's Day

Had never seen a team win a pen and get a man sent off.. great play acting


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

Rulli Liverpools MOTM here lol


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## Slime (May 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Fun 2nd half coming up in Spain  Wonder if we might see a Villareal squirrel lol
		
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Sadly not.


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## Beezerk (May 3, 2022)

Some turn around by Liverpool 😲


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## IanM (May 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Fun 2nd half coming up in Spain  Wonder if we might see a Villareal squirrel lol
		
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Not now!


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

Congrats Liverpool fans, even those on a thread break  cheering for Madrid tomorrow night?


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## hairball_89 (May 3, 2022)

Well. Phew.


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## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2022)

A definition of a game of two halves.
Shocking first .
Brilliant second.
Diaz changed the game pushed them back.


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## Jimaroid (May 3, 2022)

Great scenes in the stadium. Nice to see.


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## Piece (May 3, 2022)

Piece said:



			Is this the same Villarreal side that we’re labelled a disgrace by Talksport a few weeks ago? 😲😉
		
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You can always rely on a team in yellow to fold in the second half 🤣🤣


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521591357378285570


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## Liverbirdie (May 3, 2022)

I'm being dragged by the missus to Paris for the week at the end of this month.

Obviously off to the Louvre, the Eiffel, a few of the history museums and will treat myself to a knock around Le Golf Nationale, if I can. 

But what else can I do for the rest of the week???

Sacre couer, as well as Sacre Blue!!!!!!!!!


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## backwoodsman (May 3, 2022)

Not sure about it being a 'great' or 'quality' set piece by Bournemouth - was a damn soppy goal for us to let in. Had our chances in the first half, and the lack of a penalty award was rather questionable, but overall Bournemouth deserved it. But when all's said & done, Bournemouth really should not been fighting for automatic promotion this late in the season - they had a very good try at chucking it all away. Forest, on the other hand, have had a blinding spell - but now no doubt will naff up the play-offs


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm being dragged by the missus to Paris for the week at the end of this month.

Obviously off to the Louvre, the Eiffel, a few of the history museums and will treat myself to a knock around Le Golf Nationale, if I can.

But what else can I do for the rest of the week???

Sacre couer, as well as Sacre Blue!!!!!!!!! 

Click to expand...

Hope you have a better night than we did there 27 years ago (geez was it really that long ago lol)


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## Slime (May 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hope you have a better night than we did there 27 years ago (geez was it really that long ago lol)
		
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Wowsers!
I was also in Paris 27 years ago, I hope it was nothing I did!


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Wowsers!
I was also in Paris 27 years ago, I hope it was nothing I did!
		
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are you also known as Nayim or David Seaman. Or the french police that tear gassed us for wanting to leave? If not, nope not your fault


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## Liverbirdie (May 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hope you have a better night than we did there 27 years ago (geez was it really that long ago lol)
		
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That was a sliding doors moment for Arsenal. Around the time of the invincibles from what I remember, but would old big ears have pushed that team onto even greater things?


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## DaveR (May 3, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm being dragged by the missus to Paris for the week at the end of this month.

Obviously off to the Louvre, the Eiffel, a few of the history museums and will treat myself to a knock around Le Golf Nationale, if I can.

But what else can I do for the rest of the week???

Sacre couer, as well as Sacre Blue!!!!!!!!! 

Click to expand...

Eurodisney, lunch in the Musee D'Orsay, river boat cruise. Champagne region isn't too far away if you are there for a week


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## fundy (May 3, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			That was a sliding doors moment for Arsenal. Around the time of the invincibles from what I remember, but would old big ears have pushed that team onto even greater things?
		
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2 days before my University finals, still have the nightmares, not least of coming back to my "newly decorated" hall bedroom lol

the bad days ensure you enjoy the good days (repeat 100 times)


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## Liverbirdie (May 3, 2022)

DaveR said:



			Eurodisney, lunch in the Musee D'Orsay, river boat cruise. Champagne region isn't too far away if you are there for a week 

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I was joking, mate. 

Ive been there before but 20 years ago, so will go the museums again, but going to have days out at Orleans, Troyes and Chartres this time.

And a small matter of a Cup final.


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## Stuart_C (May 3, 2022)

Good Ebening, A mad game of 2 halves.

Pish poor  1st half but credit to Villareal, they worked very hard for their lead, just glad their shithousery wasnt rewarded.

A proper Liverpool performance 2nd half though.

Another European Cup final for the Flopp, German Cheerleader 🤣🤣

Flights booked via Brussels Thursday-Monday.


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## Junior (May 4, 2022)

Had a weird and wonderful experience 2 weeks ago on the practice ground at Prestbury Golf Club.  Mo Salah lives a stones throw away and he was there practising right next to me and my mate.  We were the only 3 on the range.  

It was impossible not to say hello and we ended up having a nice 2 minute chat and I said even though I'm a Man U fan the way Liverpool are playing is unbelievable etc etc.  My mate asked him about Klopp and how does he get the best out of his team etc etc , his reply was great.  He just said he has never played in a side with as much team spirit.  That they just all want the best for each other and are in it together.

He was a top guy.  Very humble.  Golf swing seemed ok too.


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## Swango1980 (May 4, 2022)

Junior said:



			Had a weird and wonderful experience 2 weeks ago on the practice ground at Prestbury Golf Club.  Mo Salah lives a stones throw away and he was there practising right next to me and my mate.  We were the only 3 on the range.  

It was impossible not to say hello and we ended up having a nice 2 minute chat and I said even though I'm a Man U fan the way Liverpool are playing is unbelievable etc etc.  My mate asked him about Klopp and how does he get the best out of his team etc etc , his reply was great.  He just said he has never played in a side with as much team spirit.  That they just all want the best for each other and are in it together.

He was a top guy.  Very humble.  Golf swing seemed ok too.
		
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He must have just started golf in the second half of the season, as every time I've watched him he had been abysmal (scored against Utd, but not hard). Maybe he is the new Gareth Bale


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## Stuart_C (May 4, 2022)

Junior said:



			Had a weird and wonderful experience 2 weeks ago on the practice ground at Prestbury Golf Club.  Mo Salah lives a stones throw away and he was there practising right next to me and my mate.  We were the only 3 on the range. 

It was impossible not to say hello and we ended up having a nice 2 minute chat and I said even though I'm a Man U fan the way Liverpool are playing is unbelievable etc etc.  My mate asked him about Klopp and how does he get the best out of his team etc etc , his reply was great.  *He just said he has never played in a side with as much team spirit.  That they just all want the best for each other and are in it together.*

He was a top guy.  Very humble.  Golf swing seemed ok too.
		
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When you're in the ground this just oozes out of the team and you can definitely feel it.

The  telly clappers wouldnt feel it😉


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## adam6177 (May 4, 2022)

Has anyone else injured themselves celebrating a goal before?

When Fabinho scored last night I went silently mad (as my son was in bed) and I've hurt my shoulder... Absolute agony this morning. Am hoping I'll be ok for golf on Sunday.

I'm only 41 as well....I'm not that old, am I.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 4, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Not sure about it being a 'great' or 'quality' set piece by Bournemouth - was a damn soppy goal for us to let in. Had our chances in the first half, and the lack of a penalty award was rather questionable, but overall Bournemouth deserved it. But when all's said & done, Bournemouth really should not been fighting for automatic promotion this late in the season - they had a very good try at chucking it all away. Forest, on the other hand, have had a blinding spell - but now no doubt will naff up the play-offs
		
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Come on, it was clever, executed perfectly. 

You looked good first half, disappeared second. Your CF was a royal pain in the backside all game, Surridge. Niggled and took cheap shots at Bournemouth players through the game. He looked okay when he was actually playing. I'm guessing he is one of those players Forest fans love and opposition fans hate?


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## pokerjoke (May 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Good Ebening, A mad game of 2 halves.

Pish poor  1st half but credit to Villareal, they worked very hard for their lead, just glad their shithousery wasnt rewarded.

A proper Liverpool performance 2nd half though.

Another European Cup final for the Flopp, German Cheerleader 🤣🤣

Flights booked via Brussels Thursday-Monday.
		
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How did you find Tele clapping last night


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## Foxholer (May 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			When you're in the ground this just oozes out of the team and you can definitely feel it.

The  telly clappers wouldnt feel it😉
		
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It's blatantly obvious to some of us!
And the contra is obvious watching ManU too!


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## Swingalot (May 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			It's blatantly obvious to some of us!
And the contra is obvious watching ManU too!
		
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Agreed. Have you seen the clip of Pogba walking off at OT after there last game?!?!!?!
The players are clapping the crowd but he is just heading off ignoring the supporters and then as he reaches the tunnel he cups his ears and slides away. He is all that is wrong with united and a large % of their current playing squad. 
OMG what would old Fergie had done with a player like that in his time.


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## Swango1980 (May 4, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Agreed. Have you seen the clip of Pogba walking off at OT after there last game?!?!!?!
The players are clapping the crowd but he is just heading off ignoring the supporters and then as he reaches the tunnel he cups his ears and slides away. He is all that is wrong with united and a large % of their current playing squad.
OMG what would old Fergie had done with a player like that in his time.
		
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Hmmmm, I think he would have got rid of him. If only Pogba ever played under Fergie and we'd know for sure...


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Agreed. Have you seen the clip of Pogba walking off at OT after there last game?!?!!?!
The players are clapping the crowd but he is just heading off ignoring the supporters and then as he reaches the tunnel he cups his ears and slides away. He is all that is wrong with united and a large % of their current playing squad.
OMG what would old Fergie had done with a player like that in his time.
		
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Let him go for nothing, and let some other daft sod pay £90 mill for him a few years later.

Epilogue: Then get nothing for him again a few years later.


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## Foxholer (May 4, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Agreed. Have you seen the clip of Pogba walking off at OT after there last game?!?!!?!
The players are clapping the crowd but he is just heading off ignoring the supporters and then as he reaches the tunnel he cups his ears and slides away.* He is all that is wrong with united and a large % of their current playing squad.*
OMG what would old Fergie had done with a player like that in his time.
		
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To me, he merely demonstrates what is (currently) wrong with ManU _as a club_ - not, necessarily, with the players!
Whatever it is - and I have no real idea of the details - it should have been sorted ages ago. Rangnick is inept as the team's Manager and this has been obvious for a long time. Why he wasn't replaced some time ago is bizarre.
Fergie, as a Board member, is part of the problem - and perhaps even a major part of it!


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## hairball_89 (May 4, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Has anyone else injured themselves celebrating a goal before?

When Fabinho scored last night I went silently mad (as my son was in bed) and I've hurt my shoulder... Absolute agony this morning. Am hoping I'll be ok for golf on Sunday.

I'm only 41 as well....I'm not that old, am I.
		
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I haven't, but any dad ruptured his achilles the season Brighton got to the FA Cup Semis a few years ago. penalty shoot out, final player on other team (I forget who it was) missed and he jumped off the sofa, achilles went and he hit the deck in pain! Mum and Sister thought he was having a laugh. Safe to say he was in some serious pain!


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## Swango1980 (May 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			To me, he merely demonstrates what is (currently) wrong with ManU _as a club_ - not, necessarily, with the players!
Whatever it is - and I have no real idea of the details - it should have been sorted ages ago. Rangnick is inept as the team's Manager and this has been obvious for a long time. Why he wasn't replaced some time ago is bizarre.
Fergie, as a Board member, is part of the problem - and perhaps even a major part of it!
		
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Ragnick replaced by who? Another caretaker manager? That would have been even more laughable. As a Utd fan, I've personally never called for his head. I had all but written the season off by the time he came in, we were a shambles. Yes, Ragnick has certainly not been successful, but at least it shows how deep the problems are. I'd rather he stay to the end of the season, and then be able to list everything he thinks is wrong behind the scenes. Hopefully very useful information for the new manager that comes in. A new manager who can then start off with a fresh season after a transfer window, and continue to look to build the squad thereafter. Whilst Ragnick has been in charge, it has given the board to properly (I hope) plan the long term manager, and get him at a time in which he comes available.

For anyone who says Fergie is the major part of the problem, I'd really like to know why? What is it that he does behind the scenes that has caused this chaotic team. Or, is it the same type of people that likes to be sensationalist and label Ronaldo as the problem at Utd, and come up with some speculative reasons as to why this is the case? I'm pretty sure Utd would still be in a complete mess if Fergie was permanently living in the Bahamas and enjoying his retirement.


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## Foxholer (May 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Ragnick replaced by who? Another caretaker manager? That would have been even more laughable. As a Utd fan, I've personally never called for his head. I had all but written the season off by the time he came in, we were a shambles. Yes, Ragnick has certainly not been successful, but at least it shows how deep the problems are. I'd rather he stay to the end of the season, and then be able to list everything he thinks is wrong behind the scenes. Hopefully very useful information for the new manager that comes in. A new manager who can then start off with a fresh season after a transfer window, and continue to look to build the squad thereafter. Whilst Ragnick has been in charge, it has given the board to properly (I hope) plan the long term manager, and get him at a time in which he comes available.

For anyone who says Fergie is the major part of the problem, I'd really like to know why? What is it that he does behind the scenes that has caused this chaotic team. Or, is it the same type of people that likes to be sensationalist and label Ronaldo as the problem at Utd, and come up with some speculative reasons as to why this is the case? I'm pretty sure Utd would still be in a complete mess if Fergie was permanently living in the Bahamas and enjoying his retirement.
		
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The search for a 'proper' manager should have begun prior to OGS being dumped!

I've never said 'Fergie is the major part of the problem', though it wouldn't surprise me if he was. As a Board member, he's part of the shambles though! How much has Rangnick's caretaker management cost? Btw. I'm a bit surprised a Utd fan can't spell the manager's name correctly! I don't actually blame him - the position is a pretty near impossible one really. 

Writing off the season may be appropriate, but that also means no CL participation next year too - so more than just this season involved. And that will also affect the level of player that can be attracted to the club next year.


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## Swango1980 (May 4, 2022)

Foxholer said:



*The search for a 'proper' manager should have begun prior to OGS being dumped!*

I've never said 'Fergie is the major part of the problem', though it wouldn't surprise me if he was. As a Board member, he's part of the shambles though! How much has Rangnick's caretaker management cost? Btw. I'm a bit surprised a Utd fan can't spell the manager's name correctly! I don't actually blame him - the position is a pretty near impossible one really.

Writing off the season may be appropriate, but that also means no CL participation next year too - so more than just this season involved. And that will also affect the level of player that can be attracted to the club next year.
		
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I've not a lot of experience at running a football club, but I suspect it is unusual to plan the next manager for a significant period of time before sacking the current manager. They were always wrong in thinking that Ole was the long term solution. However, given that they felt that could be the case, they'd hardly be looking for a replacement going into the season. Things were clearly awful early into the season, and even then the board realised Ole was not the answer. However, they probably only came to that final conclusion shortly before letting him go. Not a lot of time to plan his long term successor, plus their options would be severely limited at that stage in the season. Maybe Conte was the only realistic option, but if they didn't see him as being their man, there was no point in appointing him just because that was all that was out there.

I appreciate now you say you don't actually blame him as the position was pretty much impossible, however I was responding to your comment that he was inept and should have been replaced ages ago. Well, if it was an impossible job, why sack him and get someone else to do an impossible job. You're post also put it out there that "perhaps" Fergie was the major part of the problem, so all I was doing was challenging that statement, whether you truly believe it or not.

Utd do not deserve to be in the Champions League next year. Of course not being in the Champions League has negative ramifications for Utd, but we really are rubbish. As much as I'd really like to have been in it, in a weird way I'm happy we are not, just to really highlight to the players how bad they are. And to the board.

P.S. I can spell Rangnick, but it appears my instinctive quick typing likes to leave an "n" out every now and then.


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## Foxholer (May 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I've not a lot of experience at running a football club, but I suspect it is unusual to plan the next manager for a significant period of time before sacking the current manager. They were always wrong in thinking that Ole was the long term solution. However, given that they felt that could be the case, they'd hardly be looking for a replacement going into the season. Things were clearly awful early into the season, and even then the board realised Ole was not the answer. However, they probably only came to that final conclusion shortly before letting him go. Not a lot of time to plan his long term successor, plus their options would be severely limited at that stage in the season. Maybe Conte was the only realistic option, but if they didn't see him as being their man, there was no point in appointing him just because that was all that was out there.

I appreciate now you say you don't actually blame him as the position was pretty much impossible, however I was responding to your comment that he was inept and should have been replaced ages ago. Well, if it was an impossible job, why sack him and get someone else to do an impossible job. You're post also put it out there that "perhaps" Fergie was *the* major part of the problem, so all I was doing was challenging that statement, whether you truly believe it or not.

Utd do not deserve to be in the Champions League next year. Of course not being in the Champions League has negative ramifications for Utd, but we really are rubbish. As much as I'd really like to have been in it, in a weird way I'm happy we are not, just to really highlight to the players how bad they are. And to the board.

P.S. I can spell Rangnick, but it appears my instinctive quick typing likes to leave an "n" out every now and then.
		
Click to expand...

Check my posts! I've never suggested that Fergie is *the* major part of the problem....often that he's part of it (as a Board mamber) and *perhaps* *a* major part of it.

ManU definitely needed a 'big' manager and OGS was never going to be one of those, so that's where the problems began! Was Conte available then/when they ditched him?

I sympathise with the spelling glitch. I keep dropping certain vowels, though that might be laptop/posture related.


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## Hobbit (May 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I've not a lot of experience at running a football club, but I suspect it is unusual to plan the next manager for a significant period of time before sacking the current manager. They were always wrong in thinking that Ole was the long term solution. However, given that they felt that could be the case, they'd hardly be looking for a replacement going into the season. Things were clearly awful early into the season, and even then the board realised Ole was not the answer. However, they probably only came to that final conclusion shortly before letting him go. Not a lot of time to plan his long term successor, plus their options would be severely limited at that stage in the season. Maybe Conte was the only realistic option, but if they didn't see him as being their man, there was no point in appointing him just because that was all that was out there.

I appreciate now you say you don't actually blame him as the position was pretty much impossible, however I was responding to your comment that he was inept and should have been replaced ages ago. Well, if it was an impossible job, why sack him and get someone else to do an impossible job. You're post also put it out there that "perhaps" Fergie was the major part of the problem, so all I was doing was challenging that statement, whether you truly believe it or not.

Utd do not deserve to be in the Champions League next year. Of course not being in the Champions League has negative ramifications for Utd, but we really are rubbish. As much as I'd really like to have been in it, in a weird way I'm happy we are not, just to really highlight to the players how bad they are. And to the board.

P.S. I can spell Rangnick, but it appears my instinctive quick typing likes to leave an "n" out every now and then.
		
Click to expand...

Just on your first point, I’d be very surprised if any major business, inc football clubs, don’t have ongoing processes like “Succession Planning.” It’s not just about a manager being sacked, he/she could be poached. The board will, in all probability, have a template for the type of manager they want and the type of football they want. Any decent business will review a Succession Plan on a regular basis to ensure that the criteria in the Plan is current to the trends in the industry.


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## Billysboots (May 4, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Just on your first point, I’d be very surprised if any major business, inc football clubs, don’t have ongoing processes like “Succession Planning.” It’s not just about a manager being sacked, he/she could be poached. The board will, in all probability, have a template for the type of manager they want and the type of football they want. Any decent business will review a Succession Plan on a regular basis to ensure that the criteria in the Plan is current to the trends in the industry.
		
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Ah, but you’re talking about a decent business, Brian. And this is Manchester United. A commercial success still, no doubt. But a footballing disaster zone.


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## Blue in Munich (May 4, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Ah, but you’re talking about a decent business, Brian. And this is Manchester United. A commercial success still, no doubt.* But a footballing disaster zone.*

Click to expand...

Long may it continue.


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## Swango1980 (May 4, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Ah, but you’re talking about a decent business, Brian. And this is Manchester United. A commercial success still, no doubt. But a footballing disaster zone.
		
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Next year will be our year ....


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## Billysboots (May 4, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Long may it continue. 

Click to expand...

😘


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## Blue in Munich (May 4, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			😘
		
Click to expand...

At least you'll be here next year, we may not be...


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Agreed. Have you seen the clip of Pogba walking off at OT after there last game?!?!!?!
The players are clapping the crowd but he is just heading off ignoring the supporters and then as he reaches the tunnel he cups his ears and slides away. He is all that is wrong with united and a large % of their current playing squad.
OMG what would old Fergie had done with a player like that in his time.
		
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AF would not have allowed UTD to sign a player like Pogba imo.
Managers now don’t seem to have control over the signing of players.
I think Pep and Klopp do but how many others have control of signings.?


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## pauljames87 (May 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			AF would not have allowed UTD to sign a player like Pogba imo.
Managers now don’t seem to have control over the signing of players.
I think Pep and Klopp do but how many others have control of signings.?
		
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Didn't he let him go because of his demands for first team football and contract? I could be wrong


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Didn't he let him go because of his demands for first team football and contract? I could be wrong
		
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Not sure ,that might of been the official reason.
“ he is an arrogant knob “ might not go to well if your trying to offload him.


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## Pin-seeker (May 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			AF would not have allowed UTD to sign a player like Pogba imo.
Managers now don’t seem to have control over the signing of players.
I think Pep and Klopp do but how many others have control of signings.?
		
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No way would Pep or Klopp put up with his attitude. 
He’s got to have a negative effect on the dressing room.
Pinching a living at UTD.


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## Papas1982 (May 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure ,that might of been the official reason.
“ he is an arrogant knob “ might not go to well if your trying to offload him.

Click to expand...

Pretty sure Pogba refused a new contract after he got overlooked in place of Schole's who'd cone out of retirement.


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## Bunkermagnet (May 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Next year will be our year .... 

Click to expand...


No chance


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## Foxholer (May 4, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Just on your first point, I’d be very surprised if any major business, inc football clubs, don’t have ongoing processes like “Succession Planning.” It’s not just about a manager being sacked, he/she could be poached. The board will, in all probability, have a template for the type of manager they want and the type of football they want. Any decent business will review a Succession Plan on a regular basis to ensure that the criteria in the Plan is current to the trends in the industry.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, right! That must have been why OGS got the job!


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			No way would Pep or Klopp put up with his attitude.
He’s got to have a negative effect on the dressing room.
Pinching a living at UTD.
		
Click to expand...

Yes ,I know he was there at a young age but how many managers would pay the money UTD paid to get him back.
I do wonder how many managers get the players they ask for or just make do with what the club buy him?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes ,I know he was there at a young age but how many managers would pay the money UTD paid to get him back.
I do wonder how many managers get the players they ask for or just make do with what the club buy him?
		
Click to expand...

Isn't Klopp directly involved in the recruitment process? Thought he was which would explain to a large degree why Liverpool do so well in the market.


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Isn't Klopp directly involved in the recruitment process? Thought he was which would explain to a large degree why Liverpool do so well in the market.
		
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I hope so.
That’s why I said him and Pep get the players they ask for .
But how many others have that luxury.?
It makes no sense to buy a player that the manager dosnt want.


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## pauljames87 (May 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I hope so.
That’s why I said him and Pep get the players they ask for .
But how many others have that luxury.?
It makes no sense to buy a player that the manager dosnt want.
		
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Sam Allardyce has given West Ham fans just a taste of how ridiculous the club’s transfer strategy was during his spell as manager at Upton Park.

Speaking to talkSPORT, the former Hammers boss revealed he was often ‘given presents’ by co-owner David Sullivan… in the form of new players.

The problem was, however, that Big Sam had no idea who they were

And, if they didn’t perform as expected, he would get the blame for his ‘poor coaching’.

Allardyce’s revelation comes amid a troubling time for the Hammers, with the relationship between supporters and the club hierarchy reaching breaking point.

Angry fans have accused owners David Sullivan and David Gold of breaking their promises, having vowed to build a ‘world-class team for a world-class stadium’ when they decided to leave their historic Upton Park ground in 2016.

And now Allardyce has explained the amount of control the club’s ownership had on the team and signings, sometimes even without the manager’s knowledge.

“David would have his own mind about his own players,” said Big Sam on the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast.

“I found that dealing directly with David was the order of the day.

You’d get the odd present from David every now and again, where he fancies a player, brings him in and you have to live with it.

“He’d just turn up for pre-season, and David would say: ‘Here’s one, I fancied this one’

It was normally a centre-forward who scores goals,” Big Sam said with a smile.

“Which is fine because you think: ‘Well if he can come and score goals that would be amazing!’

“And you just hope that it works, because if he didn’t score or you didn’t play him you get the can for that: ‘It’s your coaching techniques not bringing the best out of him!’

“And no, I’m not naming any names!”



Glad things have changed

However.. looking at our goal return from strikers since they took over he didn't have a eye for talent


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## Dando (May 4, 2022)

Laporte- 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡


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## Jensen (May 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I hope so.
That’s why I said him and Pep get the players they ask for .
But how many others have that luxury.?
It makes no sense to buy a player that the manager dosnt want.
		
Click to expand...

Well that happened to Rafa when he was at Liverpool, he wanted Gareth Barry but got Robbie Keane 😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2022)

Think this ref needs to go to spec savers.
The tackles on KDB and Foden were shocking and no card but two for some handbags.


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Well that happened to Rafa when he was at Liverpool, he wanted Gareth Barry but got Robbie Keane 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Think he got a good deal.


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## Piece (May 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think this ref needs to go to spec savers.
The tackles on KDB and Foden were shocking and no card but two for some handbags.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. Casemiro doing extremely well not to get any sort of booking x 2


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## Beezerk (May 4, 2022)

Ooof what a finish.


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## fundy (May 4, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Ooof what a finish.
		
Click to expand...


some hit that  fair play to pep being prepared to take KDB off


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## Beezerk (May 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			some hit that  fair play to pep being prepared to take KDB off
		
Click to expand...

Bolas de acero ⚽️


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## SteveW86 (May 4, 2022)

Wow!


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## Dando (May 4, 2022)

Oh my god


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2022)

Great finish.


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## fundy (May 4, 2022)

now we have a game haha


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## Jimaroid (May 4, 2022)

Stunning.


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2022)

Real have been poor for 86 mins.
Edison giving the ball away straight to Real keeper just no need.


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## Jimaroid (May 4, 2022)

It’s been 87 minutes of rubbish but worth sitting through for this.


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## Dando (May 4, 2022)

Where has this score come from?


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2022)

Un.....Real.


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## fundy (May 4, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Un.....Real.
		
Click to expand...


Lpool fans rubbing there hands together praying it ends like this!!!!


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## Dando (May 4, 2022)

Pep out if they lose this?


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## fundy (May 4, 2022)

Dando said:



			Pep out if they lose this?
		
Click to expand...

ROFL

Edit: if it is, they can have Arteta


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## Beezerk (May 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Lpool fans rubbing there hands together praying it ends like this!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Does anyone fancy playing RM given their never say die attitude 😲


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## fundy (May 4, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Does anyone fancy playing RM given their never say die attitude 😲
		
Click to expand...


youll do well to find a pool fan whod rather play city than madrid id think


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## Swango1980 (May 4, 2022)

The refereeing in the City game is horrific


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## IanM (May 4, 2022)

Ref surely wants a free meal in the city after the game


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The refereeing in the City game is horrific
		
Click to expand...

Lets face it any game involving Real has tonnes of bad refereeing decisions, they do get special treatment. Look at casemiro tonight.


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## fundy (May 4, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Lets face it any game involving Real has tonnes of bad refereeing decisions, they do get special treatment. Look at casemiro tonight.
		
Click to expand...


Lol, be horrible for one game to be on the other side of the line eh


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## Beezerk (May 4, 2022)

Sterling, worst player on the pitch by a country mile, absolutely gash.


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## IanM (May 4, 2022)

Excellent advert for why football needs to use a similar time keeping approach to rugby.


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## fundy (May 4, 2022)

3 mins IT, should be nearer 10 lol


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## Beezerk (May 4, 2022)

Wow he even managed to blow 15 seconds early so City couldn’t pump the ball forward 😂


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## hairball_89 (May 4, 2022)

So the biggest trophy of them all will be fought out by European Royalty. 

That sounds fitting.


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2022)

Taking KDB off was a massive mistake imo he drives the team forward.
City should have put Real away in the first leg and have paid the penalty.
The ref was a joke .


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## pauljames87 (May 4, 2022)

Much as I wanted city to win champs League 
. This is gonna be a much better final than city v Liverpool


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## Swango1980 (May 4, 2022)

How does a ref give 3 mins injury time, there is wasted time in that period, and he blows the final whistle before 3 minutes anyway?


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## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			How does a ref give 3 mins injury time, there is wasted time in that period, and he blows the final whistle before 3 minutes anyway?
		
Click to expand...

Like a lot of his decisions he has a dodgy watch.


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## 4LEX (May 4, 2022)

City bottled that big time sadly. However the ref was a disgrace, the game was too big for him. UEFA have wanted Real in the final all season, some of the bad decisions for them have been unbelievable. They've been second best to PSG, Chelsea and City yet they've found a way through via hook or crook.

I'm not sure if Liverpool will give them the beating they deserve or whether we'll see more bizarre decisions in the final as it looks like their name is on the trophy....


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## fundy (May 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Taking KDB off was a massive mistake imo he drives the team forward.
City should have put Real away in the first leg and have paid the penalty.
The ref was a joke .
		
Click to expand...

they were 2 goals up going into the 90th minute of normal time, realy really should see the tie out from there with or without KDB

that said they ended ET with a pretty horrid looking XI considering their squad


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## Fade and Die (May 4, 2022)

Edited.


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## Piece (May 4, 2022)

🤯

Still trying to work out how Real have managed to beat PSG, Chelsea and City, despite being the worst side in all those games? 😆

That ref wasn't very good at all and his mates can't operate a watch at all. Must be eating at a nice Real restaurant tonight. 🤑


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## fundy (May 4, 2022)

Piece said:



			🤯

Still trying to work out how Real have managed to beat PSG, Chelsea and City, despite being the worst side in all those games? 😆

That ref wasn't very good at all and his mates can't operate a watch at all. Must be eating at a nice Real restaurant tonight. 🤑
		
Click to expand...

not just tonight lol, be dining out for the rest of his life in madrid


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## Blue in Munich (May 4, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Dammit, now I have to stick up for Liverpool 🤮
		
Click to expand...

No, you don't.


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## Stuart_C (May 4, 2022)

Incredible result. I thought City were in control of that game until the 88th minute, their Dark arts were on point all game though. 

Thought the ref was poor for both sides,  too much feigning injuries even for my liking.


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## Slime (May 5, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Dammit, now I have to stick up for Liverpool 🤮
		
Click to expand...

Oh no you don't!


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Anyways enough of that Mikey mouse comp and onto the real one today 🤣

Set up nicely at 2-1 

Dawson returns after a rest Sunday. Same with Antonio 

Johnson rumoured to be out , tbh I want coufal in the team anyways 

Hoping for a 2-0 win to do the job in normal time 

But anything to get us through to the final 

However whatever happens tonight it's been a good ride and we have exceeded all expectations


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## Canary_Yellow (May 5, 2022)

I still can't quite understand how City blew that.... they were more in control of the game than they had been at any other stage and looked like adding another goal! The really odd thing is that Real didn't have to do much to bag two goals! 

Reality of it is that Madridl fluked it, all this talk of a never say die attitude and what not, it was a fluke in combination with very good players that can do that when they get the chance. It wasn't as if they were putting relentless pressure on the City goal! 

I'd say 99 times out of 100, City go into the final. Truly bizarre.


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## Fade and Die (May 5, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			No, you don't. 

Click to expand...




Slime said:



			Oh no you don't!
		
Click to expand...


Yeah I don't know what I was thinking last night. Post deleted and Real Madrid scarf ordered!


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## backwoodsman (May 5, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I still can't quite understand how City blew that.... they were more in control of the game than they had been at any other stage and looked like adding another goal! The really odd thing is that Real didn't have to do much to bag two goals!

Reality of it is that Madridl fluked it, all this talk of a never say die attitude and what not, it was a fluke in combination with very good players that can do that when they get the chance. It wasn't as if they were putting relentless pressure on the City goal!

I'd say 99 times out of 100, City go into the final. Truly bizarre.
		
Click to expand...

Ah, but ...   It seems like you've forgotten to factor in the supposed liking of free tapas by all referees.


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## Bunkermagnet (May 5, 2022)

I’m not complaining it’s Real in the final. It’s a chance to get revenge for previous.
I don’t understand why Pep  is lauded as the best, I thought he blew it.


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## Fade and Die (May 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Anyways enough of that Mikey mouse comp and onto the real one today 🤣

Set up nicely at 2-1

Dawson returns after a rest Sunday. Same with Antonio

Johnson rumoured to be out , tbh I want coufal in the team anyways

Hoping for a 2-0 win to do the job in normal time

But anything to get us through to the final

However whatever happens tonight it's been a good ride and we have exceeded all expectations
		
Click to expand...


Personally as a west ham pessimist , I think its a tough ask after a long season with a small squad. Frankfurt have some outstanding attacking players and we haven't been at our best in the past month.

As you say Win or lose its been a hell of a ride. 


I think DM needs to be brave, discard the out of form players and go for it.

Areola,Dawson,Zouma,Cresswell
Coufal,Rice,Fornals,Fredricks
Bowen,Yarmolenko,Lanzini

If he starts Soucek and Antonio the tie might be lost before half time


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I’m not complaining it’s Real in the final. It’s a chance to get revenge for previous.
I don’t understand why Pep  is lauded as the best, I thought he blew it.
		
Click to expand...

I've never understood it

He has always been in control of the best team in the league.. with a lot of money 

Klopp on the other hand does it with a tighter budget and weren't they like 7th when he took over or something?


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Personally as a west ham pessimist , I think its a tough ask after a long season with a small squad. Frankfurt have some outstanding attacking players and we haven't been at our best in the past month.

As you say Win or lose its been a hell of a ride.


I think DM needs to be brave, discard the out of form players and go for it.

Areola,Dawson,Zouma,Cresswell
Coufal,Rice,Fornals,Fredricks
Bowen,Yarmolenko,Lanzini

If he starts Soucek and Antonio the tie might be lost before half time 

Click to expand...

Ah I disagree

Antonio was outstanding against them, he ran them ragged 

Much as I don't think he is amazing he is a handful .

Soucek does an important job and has got us this far 

Don't think 3 at back works in Europa I think 4 at back and take the game by the scruff


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## Canary_Yellow (May 5, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Ah, but ...   It seems like you've forgotten to factor in the supposed liking of free tapas by all referees.
		
Click to expand...

The ref's performance was frustrating, increasingly so as the game went on, but he wasn't the reason City lost.


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## Neilds (May 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Incredible result. I thought City were in control of that game until the 88th minute, their Dark arts were on point all game though.

Thought the ref was poor for both sides,  too much feigning injuries even for my liking.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure how you can blame the Ref for players feigning injuries.  Unfortunately it is the culture in men's football now where they all cheat and con to try and get an advantage.  It was nice to watch the WSL last night with none of the diving and rolling around.  Who said women were the weaker sex? 😁


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## backwoodsman (May 5, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Ah, but ...   It seems like you've forgotten to factor in the supposed liking of free tapas by all referees.
		
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Canary_Yellow said:



			The ref's performance was frustrating, increasingly so as the game went on, but he wasn't the reason City lost.
		
Click to expand...

But the tone of the thread earlier suggests others might not be in total agreement 
(Have always wondered why in football in particular, everything is always totally the refereees fault? )


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## Fade and Die (May 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Ah I disagree

Antonio was outstanding against them, he ran them ragged

Much as I don't think he is amazing he is a handful .

Soucek does an important job and has got us this far

Don't think 3 at back works in Europa I think 4 at back and take the game by the scruff
		
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Its all a game of opinions Paul so disagree away 

I meant 4 at the back actually, i just typed it badly!

            Areola
Coufal Dawson,Zouma,Cresswell
    Rice,Fornals,Fredricks
Bowen,                   ,Lanzini 
           Yarmolenko

I don't think Antonio did bully anyone in the 1st game, the centre half (who is a unit) was not bothered by him at all and when he dropped deeper to get the ball he was guilty of slowing the (already slow) attacks up.

And Soucek is just a shadow of the player he was last year and i do not know why, he doesn't make tackles or set up any attacking moves, also the goals have not come this year, maybe its because Rice has more licence to get forward so he needs to be more defensive or opponents are more aware of him, either way its a real shame... Moyes rested both last Sunday but when they came on they could not get into the game at all.


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Its all a game of opinions Paul so disagree away 

I meant 4 at the back actually, i just typed it badly!

            Areola
Coufal Dawson,Zouma,Cresswell
    Rice,Fornals,Fredricks
Bowen,                   ,Lanzini
           Yarmolenko

I don't think Antonio did bully anyone in the 1st game, the centre half (who is a unit) was not bothered by him at all and when he dropped deeper to get the ball he was guilty of slowing the (already slow) attacks up.

And Soucek is just a shadow of the player he was last year and i do not know why, he doesn't make tackles or set up any attacking moves, also the goals have not come this year, maybe its because Rice has more licence to get forward so he needs to be more defensive or opponents are more aware of him, either way its a real shame... Moyes rested both last Sunday but when they came on they could not get into the game at all.
		
Click to expand...

Rice's insistence of going forward has ruined soucek, soucek needs to play as the player who runs into the box 

Rice should sit and hold 

Dictacts play 

He doesn't score enough to justify going forward as often 

We have let him to try and keep him 

Much as I like Frederick's pace I think soucek and Antonio will be key tonight.

That said if juv want to give us 50 mil for soucek as rumoured fair play we can replace him


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## Fade and Die (May 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Rice's insistence of going forward has ruined soucek, soucek needs to play as the player who runs into the box

Rice should sit and hold

Dictacts play

He doesn't score enough to justify going forward as often

We have let him to try and keep him

Much as I like Frederick's pace I think soucek and Antonio will be key tonight.

That said if juv want to give us 50 mil for soucek as rumoured fair play we can replace him
		
Click to expand...


I would even experiment with Antonio on the wing and Bowen in the centre. Antonio's crosses are really good and Bowen seems the more confident player at the moment. 

I read Totts were after Soucek! Yes please 

Tottenham want to sign £40m West Ham star, Roy Keane called him ‘one hell of a player’ (hitc.com)


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I would even experiment with Antonio on the wing and Bowen in the centre. Antonio's crosses are really good and Bowen seems the more confident player at the moment.

I read Totts were after Soucek! Yes please 

Tottenham want to sign £40m West Ham star, Roy Keane called him ‘one hell of a player’ (hitc.com)

Click to expand...

I wouldn't want him elsewhere in this league ..

Only aboard 

Yes agree stick the winger back on the wing 

Bowen is a much smarter footballer


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2022)

Neilds said:



*Not sure how you can blame the Ref for players feigning injuries.*  Unfortunately it is the culture in men's football now where they all cheat and con to try and get an advantage.  It was nice to watch the WSL last night with none of the diving and rolling around.  Who said women were the weaker sex? 😁
		
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I never.

I'm an admirer of the dark arts, something i dont  think we do enough of at certain times, but theres a time and a place for it. 

City started really early, as if they were playing Atleti all over again. The referee not booking Casimero in the 1st half was prime example. City got away with a couple too.  

Special mention for Kyle Walkers 5½ rolls when he fell over Vinicious Jr, that was extremely impressive he could do so many rolls whilst being in so much pain🤣


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I would even experiment with Antonio on the wing and Bowen in the centre. Antonio's crosses are really good and Bowen seems the more confident player at the moment.

I read Totts were after Soucek! Yes please 

Tottenham want to sign £40m West Ham star, Roy Keane called him ‘one hell of a player’ (hitc.com)

Click to expand...

Not sure a Europa League Semi final is the time to experiment.


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I still can't quite understand how City blew that.... they were more in control of the game than they had been at any other stage and looked like adding another goal! The really odd thing is that Real didn't have to do much to bag two goals!

Reality of it is that Madridl fluked it, all this talk of a never say die attitude and what not, it was a fluke in combination with very good players that can do that when they get the chance. It wasn't as if they were putting relentless pressure on the City goal!

I'd say 99 times out of 100, City go into the final. Truly bizarre.
		
Click to expand...

Madrid never fluked it, it was 2 quality goals in the dying minutes. They created a few chances in normal play and with better finishing it could've been so much different.

City's fullbacks switching off and allowing crosses unchallenged into the box was the problem. 

I couldnt believe what i was watching.


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## Foxholer (May 5, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Not sure how you can blame the Ref for players feigning injuries.  Unfortunately it is the culture in men's football now where they all cheat and con to try and get an advantage.  It was nice to watch the WSL last night with none of the diving and rolling around.  Who said women were the weaker sex? 😁
		
Click to expand...

It would be great if there was another 'penalty' for such cheating - because that's what it is. Something less than a yellow (though that's occasionally deserved) but tots up for a match ban, with subsequent 3 match ban if repeated. It's only by restricting availability that the cheating (for that's what it is) can be reduced.
I was amused recently when a player that was 'rolling in agony' magically got up and continued unimpaired when he realised the Ref had ignored him (playing advantage).


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## Billysboots (May 5, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I’m not complaining it’s Real in the final. It’s a chance to get revenge for previous.
I don’t understand why Pep  is lauded as the best, I thought he blew it.
		
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At 1-1 on the night last night City absolutely fell to pieces. It was astonishing to watch a Guardiola side completely capitulate. For two or three minutes it was blind panic, like watching pub football. 

Is that the manager, or players? I think it’s the latter, given that during that short period of time the manager could have done nothing to intervene. It was perhaps the most stunning implosion I have ever seen on a football pitch.


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			At 1-1 on the night last night City absolutely fell to pieces. It was astonishing to watch a Guardiola side completely capitulate. For two or three minutes it was blind panic, like watching pub football.

*Is that the manager, or players? I think it’s the latter, given that during that short period of time the manager could have done nothing to intervene*. It was perhaps the most stunning implosion I have ever seen on a football pitch.
		
Click to expand...

I think its the result of how modern top teams are coached. These teams play exactly like the train, its their blueprint and they stick to that style of football.

They dont have to think for themselves or rely on one player to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and go and win games like we've seen in years gone by.


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## Golfmmad (May 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I think its the result of how modern top teams are coached. These teams play exactly like the train, its their blueprint and they stick to that style of football.

They dont have to think for themselves or rely on one player to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and go and win games like we've seen in years gone by.
		
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What, you mean like the young Real player that scored two goals in two minutes? 😉


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			What, you mean like the young Real player that scored two goals in two minutes? 😉
		
Click to expand...

Exactly.


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## Foxholer (May 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I think its the result of how modern top teams are coached. These teams play exactly like the train, its their blueprint and they stick to that style of football.

They dont have to think for themselves or rely on one player to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and go and win games like we've seen in years gone by.
		
Click to expand...

Thank heaven for the likes of Ronaldo then!
I certainly agree that there's a lot more of 'disciplined' tactics applied, but there's plenty of scope for individual flair as well. 
To me, there's simply a lot more discipline (at least on-field) all-round - including from managers who have far more access to target team info, so can plan (counter) tactics much better.


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## fundy (May 5, 2022)

Wonder what theyd have found in the officials room last night  ........


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522252765254328321


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## fundy (May 5, 2022)

Dont want to sit at the footie, just rip the row of seats out and pass then down through the crowd lol


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Should be s red card for cresswell 

Awful defender


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Good. Deserved that. He shouldn't be near the club he is pony


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## Dando (May 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Should be s red card for cresswell 

Awful defender
		
Click to expand...

 Off he goes


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## fundy (May 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Should be s red card for cresswell

Awful defender
		
Click to expand...


not learnt his lesson  horror effort from him and put you in a massive hole having started well


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			not larnt his lesson  horror effort from him and put you in a massive hole having started well
		
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He is a terrible player 

Because he took a few corners we scored from fans are happy to look past the fact he can't do basic defending


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## fundy (May 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He is a terrible player

Because he took a few corners we scored from fans are happy to look past the fact he can't do basic defending
		
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think they call that a modern full back


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			think they cll that a modern full back 

Click to expand...

Ah now you see coufal can defend and got 2 less assists without taking set pieces


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## Dando (May 5, 2022)

The stand at the end west ham are attacking looks almost vertical


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Game over


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## fundy (May 5, 2022)

rangers 2-0 up


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2022)

I thought Cresswell was unlucky tbh, though Dawson ball watching shouldbt be happening at this level.


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			rangers 2-0 up 

Click to expand...

Go'ed the Teddys😁


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought Cresswell was unlucky tbh, though Dawson ball watching shouldbt be happening at this level.
		
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Unlucky? He did the same against Lyon. He has learnt nothing 

He hasn't been the same player since he done his knee a few years back

We desperately need to upgrade him


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Antonio how are you tired? It's 35 mins . You done bugger all and had a rest at the weekend


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Unlucky? He did the same against Lyon. He has learnt nothing

He hasn't been the same player since he done his knee a few years back

We desperately need to upgrade him
		
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I thought it was a harsh red, definite yellow.


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## adam6177 (May 5, 2022)

For me the half time talk has got to go something like this....

Right boys, screw it. I'd rather we went out swinging and lose 4-0 than play out the next 45 minutes like this. So I'm sticking on another attacker.... Go and make yourselves proud.


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought it was a harsh red, definite yellow.
		
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It was a stupid tackle

Let him go through..he scores? We still have 11

Brain fart and now it's uphill struggle


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## fundy (May 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought it was a harsh red, definite yellow.
		
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clear red for me, brainless


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			clear red for me, brainless
		
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Don't insult the mentally challenged.. they are higher functioning than him


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## Foxholer (May 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought it was a harsh red, definite yellow.
		
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Seemed same as Dawson's in 1st leg - except outside the box this time.
I'm doing them a favour and not watching any more. Seen 4 lost 4!


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## Hobbit (May 5, 2022)

Let’s be honest here, beyond the top few teams the Prem is starting to look like the Scottish Prem. A few good teams, and then major cwap. West Ham, Rangers, Mankie Utd etc are just rubbish. UEFA have broadened European competition for no other reason than as a money earner… it certainly isn’t to entertain - the Wycombe’v’ MK Dons game is more entertaining.


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

My gosh that Antonio.. looks good on the wing...maybe we could convert him


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## PhilTheFragger (May 5, 2022)

Go Wycombe ⚽️ 😎😎👍


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## pauljames87 (May 5, 2022)

Well played Frankfurt, professional

They had our number from litterally minute one of the first tie

Cresswell ruined any hope of getting back into it

But no matter what we gave a good effort


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2022)

What a performance from Rangers tonight, fantastic.


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## fundy (May 5, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Let’s be honest here, beyond the top few teams the Prem is starting to look like the Scottish Prem. A few good teams, and then major cwap. West Ham, Rangers, Mankie Utd etc are just rubbish. UEFA have broadened European competition for no other reason than as a money earner… it certainly isn’t to entertain - the Wycombe’v’ MK Dons game is more entertaining.
		
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strange night to call out Rangers for being rubbish!!!!


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## KenL (May 5, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Let’s be honest here, beyond the top few teams the Prem is starting to look like the Scottish Prem. A few good teams, and then major cwap. West Ham, Rangers, Mankie Utd etc are just rubbish. UEFA have broadened European competition for no other reason than as a money earner… it certainly isn’t to entertain - the Wycombe’v’ MK Dons game is more entertaining.
		
Click to expand...

FFS!


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## Billysboots (May 5, 2022)

Had the misfortune of watching Leicester against Roma, my wife being a Leicester fan. What an awful game of football. 

Typical Mourinho - Roma take an early lead and then parked the bus. And against a team like Leicester, who carry very little attacking threat, that makes for a turgid game. I swear the second half could have been played without either side having a ‘keeper.

That’s 90 minutes of my life I’m not getting back.


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## Bdill93 (May 6, 2022)

Burnley away this weekend, should be an interesting game! 

We have Burnley twice in the next 3 weeks due to a game being postponed and rearranged (3 hours before KO.. I was actually in the ground already )

Theres no way we take 6 points from them  Sorry in advance Everton/ Leeds fans!


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## Blue in Munich (May 6, 2022)




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## Neilds (May 6, 2022)

Just read an article by Mark Clattenburg about the amount of game management (time wasting!)  that goes on nowadays.  Apparently the ball has been in play for 55 minutes 3 seconds a game in the Premiership this season, lowest amount ever.  It has started a discussion if football needs to go to 60 minute games, with the clock stopping every  time the ball is out of play.  I think it could be worth a try, maybe not stopping immediately for a throw in but if they take more than 5/6 seconds then stop the clock until the ball is back in play.  What are other people's thoughts?


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## theoneandonly (May 6, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522533092506107907


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## Liverbirdie (May 6, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Just read an article by Mark Clattenburg about the amount of game management (time wasting!)  that goes on nowadays.  Apparently the ball has been in play for 55 minutes 3 seconds a game in the Premiership this season, lowest amount ever.  It has started a discussion if football needs to go to 60 minute games, with the clock stopping every  time the ball is out of play.  I think it could be worth a try, maybe not stopping immediately for a throw in but if they take more than 5/6 seconds then stop the clock until the ball is back in play.  What are other people's thoughts?
		
Click to expand...

 I wouldnt like it as defined as that, but think there should be the normal 90 minutes plus injury time, but with a minimum time (say 60 or even 70 minutes that the ball must be in play), and if its below that add it to the injury time.

Refs have to start booking teams as soon as it starts and not after 10 warnings - book them for time wasting 20 minutes in if they are taking the pee.


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## pauljames87 (May 6, 2022)

theoneandonly said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522533092506107907

Click to expand...

The ref wasn't great in parts. Bought their play acting however the red card was justified 

Naive reaction much like Bellingham before 

Players need to learn respect


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## clubchamp98 (May 6, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Just read an article by Mark Clattenburg about the amount of game management (time wasting!)  that goes on nowadays.  Apparently the ball has been in play for 55 minutes 3 seconds a game in the Premiership this season, lowest amount ever.  It has started a discussion if football needs to go to 60 minute games, with the clock stopping every  time the ball is out of play.  I think it could be worth a try, maybe not stopping immediately for a throw in but if they take more than 5/6 seconds then stop the clock until the ball is back in play.  What are other people's thoughts?
		
Click to expand...

Has the time a keeper can have the ball in their hands changed?
They seem to take the pee.
That’s up to the ref.


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## Neilds (May 6, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Just read an article by Mark Clattenburg about the amount of game management (time wasting!)  that goes on nowadays.  Apparently the ball has been in play for 55 minutes 3 seconds a game in the Premiership this season, lowest amount ever.  It has started a discussion if football needs to go to 60 minute games, with the clock stopping every  time the ball is out of play.  I think it could be worth a try, maybe not stopping immediately for a throw in but if they take more than 5/6 seconds then stop the clock until the ball is back in play.  What are other people's thoughts?
		
Click to expand...

This is the link to the report on the BBC website. Some of the timings at the bottom made interesting reading, looks like the normal suspects mentioned on here are usually involved in the 'longer' matches
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349

*Liverbirdie -* 70 minutes would be no good as a a benchmark as only 1 game has ever had the ball in play for that long since 2006


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## Bdill93 (May 6, 2022)

Neilds said:



			This is the link to the report on the BBC website. Some of the timings at the bottom made interesting reading, looks like the normal suspects mentioned on here are usually involved in the 'longer' matches
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349

*Liverbirdie -* 70 minutes would be no good as a a benchmark as only 1 game has ever had the ball in play for that long since 2006 

Click to expand...

I read this earlier and was thinking before I even saw the tables that villa would be low down. Cant even put my finger on why other than our insistence on full backs taking throw ins... 

Used to make a bit more sense when we had Grealish as he won loads of fouls etc but now I've no idea!


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## Orikoru (May 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Has the time a keeper can have the ball in their hands changed?
They seem to take the pee.
That’s up to the ref.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently it's still 6 seconds in the laws of the game, but refs are soft on it. They only tend to blow up if they go 15-20 seconds with it. Even before then they'll get a warning first. You almost never see it actually given.


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## Orikoru (May 6, 2022)

Neilds said:



			This is the link to the report on the BBC website. Some of the timings at the bottom made interesting reading, looks like the normal suspects mentioned on here are usually involved in the 'longer' matches
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349

*Liverbirdie -* 70 minutes would be no good as a a benchmark as only 1 game has ever had the ball in play for that long since 2006 

Click to expand...

The fact that there have been games with less than 45 minutes of actual play is mind-blowing. Over 50% of the game wasted!? I never would have predicted that, honestly. I wasn't swayed on this argument before, but I now reckon the 60 minutes stop-clock could be a good idea. It's just such a radical change that I wonder if they'd ever seriously consider going for it.


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## 4LEX (May 6, 2022)

The refs are so bad it's beyond words these days. Pickford wastes on average 30 seconds each time he jumps on the floor. If any side is clearly timewasting, add on a 5 minute time wasting penalty on top of added on time. Things would change in a week. Added time should be 10-15 mins on a regular basis.

Southampton and Everton are the two worst teams for it, if theres any justice the latter will go down. Horrible football team.


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## Foxholer (May 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The fact that there have been games with less than 45 minutes of actual play is mind-blowing. Over 50% of the game wasted!? I never would have predicted that, honestly. I wasn't swayed on this argument before, but I now reckon the 60 minutes stop-clock could be a good idea. It's just such a radical change that I wonder if they'd ever seriously consider going for it.
		
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I'm not certain it's 'wasted', so much as 'time not available for play'. Goal kicks, Corners, Throw-ins (Penalties?) and Free Kicks are the obvious culprits, so unless something is done wrt them, there's not a lot that can be done imo. 
The Beeb's report is a bit daft in one area though - the 'Time added on' comment. Hard to criticise the Ref for blowing after 2:50 vs 3 Min shown when the TAO board only shows whole minutes! I'm certain Ref would communicated 'to the nearest minute' figure!


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## Stuart_C (May 6, 2022)

theoneandonly said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522533092506107907

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Very poor. Professional Footballers and Managers can't be making accusations like that. They should fine and ban him for as long as the rules allow.


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## Stuart_C (May 6, 2022)

4LEX said:



			The refs are so bad it's beyond words these days. Pickford wastes on average 30 seconds each time he jumps on the floor. If any side is clearly timewasting, add on a 5 minute time wasting penalty on top of added on time. Things would change in a week. Added time should be 10-15 mins on a regular basis.

Southampton and Everton are the two worst teams for it, if theres any justice the latter will go down. Horrible football team.
		
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Wolves were as bad as Everton against us earlier on in the season. It was funny that we scored the winner in the 5 mins of injury time that they wasted. 

I get why teams do it and i havent got a problem per se, its the refs who do nothing about it whilst watching them  do it i have a problem with.

Allisson taking the mickey out of Pickford was very apt.


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## ColchesterFC (May 6, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I'm not certain it's 'wasted', so much as 'time not available for play'. Goal kicks, Corners, Throw-ins (Penalties?) and Free Kicks are the obvious culprits, so unless something is done wrt them, there's not a lot that can be done imo.
The Beeb's report is a bit daft in one area though - the 'Time added on' comment. Hard to criticise the Ref for blowing after 2:50 vs 3 Min shown when the TAO board only shows whole minutes! I'm certain Ref would communicated 'to the nearest minute' figure!
		
Click to expand...

But it's not the time added on "to the nearest minute", it's "there will be a minimum of X minutes of added time". If it's 2 minutes and 45 seconds the board will show 2 minutes. If it's 3 minutes and 2 seconds the board will show 3 minutes. I'm not suggesting that it would've made any difference to the outcome but if the board shows 3 minutes that's the minimum additional time to be played.


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## Liverbirdie (May 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			This is the link to the report on the BBC website. Some of the timings at the bottom made interesting reading, looks like the normal suspects mentioned on here are usually involved in the 'longer' matches
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349

*Liverbirdie -* 70 minutes would be no good as a a benchmark as only 1 game has ever had the ball in play for that long since 2006 

Click to expand...

65 minutes then, us non-telly clappers want our money's worth.


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## backwoodsman (May 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			65 minutes then, us non-telly clappers want our money's worth. 

Click to expand...

You'd still get your value for money??  You'd still be there for the same length of time - you'd just get a guaranteed amount of time that the ball is actually being kicked about.


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## pauljames87 (May 7, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			65 minutes then, us non-telly clappers want our money's worth. 

Click to expand...

Considering you "hardcore" fans only add 95 million euros to Liverpool's accounts and the telly clappers add 300 million you get what your given.


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## Papas1982 (May 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Considering you "hardcore" fans only add 95 million euros to Liverpool's accounts and the telly clappers add 300 million you get what your given.
		
Click to expand...

Considering that £95 mil comes from let's say 60000 people. I'd say they contributing more per head than said TV clappers.....


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## pauljames87 (May 7, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Considering that £95 mil comes from let's say 60000 people. I'd say they contributing more per head than said TV clappers.....
		
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Still worth more to the club on the TV.. hence why the paymasters get to pick game times.

I'm sure Liverpool match goers would love a few more Saturday 3pms


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## ColchesterFC (May 7, 2022)

If this is true......




how can it possibly be allowed under the financial fair play rules?


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## Foxholer (May 7, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			If this is true......

View attachment 42503


how can it possibly be allowed under the financial fair play rules?
		
Click to expand...

Because it IS (specifically) allowed - provided owner funds it. 
Actual allowable losses have varied over the years and there are proposals to change the rules still.


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Considering you "hardcore" fans only add 95 million euros to Liverpool's accounts and the telly clappers add 300 million you get what your given.
		
Click to expand...

Shouldnt those "hardcore" fans who also pay full whack for Sky/BT get more of a say than just those telly clappers who sit at home "watching" and posting on social media simultaneously?


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Still worth more to the club on the TV.. hence why the paymasters get to pick game times.

*I'm sure Liverpool match goers would love a few more Saturday 3pms*

Click to expand...

I'm certain all fans of PL clubs would love more 3pm games,for example  getting to Newcastle or Brighton for a 1230 KO can be a trek.

Likewise asking Southampton Brighton Newcastle fans to do the same.


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## pauljames87 (May 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Shouldnt those "hardcore" fans who also pay full whack for Sky/BT get more of a say than just those telly clappers who sit at home "watching" and posting on social media simultaneously?
		
Click to expand...

You are just a number to them. Sad fact.


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			You are just a number to them. Sad fact.
		
Click to expand...

Arent we all.


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## ColchesterFC (May 7, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Because it IS (specifically) allowed - provided owner funds it. 
Actual allowable losses have varied over the years and there are proposals to change the rules still.
		
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I thought the rules were in place to stop a billionaire buying a football club and pumping in money to try to make them successful. Probably need more info on which years the losses occurred as I imagine a lot of it was over the first few years of his ownership.


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## Foxholer (May 7, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought the rules were in place to stop a billionaire buying a football club and pumping in money to try to make them successful. Probably need more info on which years the losses occurred as I imagine a lot of it was over the first few years of his ownership.
		
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There were still limits to the allowed losses, though significantly larger. Here's an example. http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php
Without delving, I'd expect your 'first few years' comment is likely correct.


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## Piece (May 7, 2022)

Thankfully that's confirmed, albeit 4 months after we all really knew. Embarrassing season. 🤐🥸🤡


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## Slime (May 7, 2022)

Well, that didn't take long!


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## Blue in Munich (May 7, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			If this is true......

View attachment 42503


how can it possibly be allowed under the financial fair play rules?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe it didn’t happen and it’s another garbage stat from another bang average journalist?


----------



## richart (May 7, 2022)

Piece said:



			Thankfully that's confirmed, albeit 4 months after we all really knew. Embarrassing season. 🤐🥸🤡
		
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 At least you are now excused from posting on this thread.

Oh wait I shouldn't have posted that.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 7, 2022)

Gerrard done his boyhood club a big favour today.


----------



## chrisd (May 7, 2022)

I'm no Brighton fan but this is so funny 😁😁😁😁😁


----------



## fundy (May 7, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I'm no Brighton fan but this is so funny 😁😁😁😁😁
		
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You dont need to be a brighton fan lol


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## srixon 1 (May 7, 2022)

Man United😂😂😂


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## Slime (May 7, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I'm no Brighton fan but this is so funny 😁😁😁😁😁
		
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fundy said:



			You dont need to be a brighton fan lol 

Click to expand...

You certainly don't.
This should be on The Comedy Channel.


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## ColchesterFC (May 7, 2022)

All quiet on the squirrel front.


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## Slime (May 7, 2022)




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## ColchesterFC (May 7, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Maybe it didn’t happen and it’s another garbage stat from another bang average journalist?
		
Click to expand...

Which is the exact reason that I put "If" it was true.


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## fundy (May 7, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			All quiet on the squirrel front.
		
Click to expand...


some gossip on social media its put in a transfer request


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## Slime (May 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			some gossip on social media its put in a transfer request 

Click to expand...

No, they've all absconded!
They've gone to The Middle East, in search of a better life.


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## ColchesterFC (May 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			some gossip on social media its put in a transfer request 

Click to expand...

Maybe it wants to go to a club where it will get more appearances.


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## fundy (May 7, 2022)

4-0 down and you bring on Maguire - yup thatll fix it


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## Slime (May 7, 2022)

Ooh, it nearly did .................................... well, sort of.


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## Foxholer (May 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			No, they've all absconded!
They've gone to The Middle East, in search of a better life.
		
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Apparently Lincoln is nice!


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## Slime (May 7, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Apparently Lincoln is nice!

Click to expand...

You've obviously never been there!


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## Foxholer (May 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			You've obviously never been there!
		
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Stefanovic seems to recommend it over 'abroad' - at least for hols.


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## Slime (May 7, 2022)

That was the most pitiful of performances.
They should all be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.


----------



## Dando (May 7, 2022)

At least the Man U fans haven’t got far to go to get home


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## paddyc (May 7, 2022)

I'm a scouser for one night only "walk on,walk on"


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## paddyc (May 7, 2022)

Just seen the Man U result. Oh dear 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (May 7, 2022)

I don't think this has been covered already, apologies if I've missed it. The Chelsea sale seems done at £4.25bn. That's a mind blowing sum and I can't see the business logic behind it, although it must be there.

It's an astronomical sum for starters but add in the need to renovate the ground. Chelsea are a top proposition but that much?

It makes the £380m to buy Newcastle an absolute bargain. The potential for growth is there, can you grow Chelsea enough to justify that sum?


----------



## fundy (May 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think this has been covered already, apologies if I've missed it. The Chelsea sale seems done at £4.25bn. That's a mind blowing sum and I can't see the business logic behind it, although it must be there.

It's an astronomical sum for starters but add in the need to renovate the ground. Chelsea are a top proposition but that much?

It makes the £380m to buy Newcastle an absolute bargain. The potential for growth is there, can you grow Chelsea enough to justify that sum?
		
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The stadium costs etc are included in the exorbitant figure arent they? think its 2.5bn to buy the shares and 1.75bn guaranteed investment in stadium and playing side of things

but yes, most ever paid for a sports side and does seem a huge huge amount, i guess thats london prices for you


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## Lord Tyrion (May 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			The stadium costs etc are included in the exorbitant figure arent they? think its 2.5bn to buy the shares and 1.75bn guaranteed investment in stadium and playing side of things

but yes, most ever paid for a sports side and does seem a huge huge amount, i guess thats london prices for you 

Click to expand...

Ah, okay. 

Yes, it doesn't sound like value still. It's what you can do with the brand that adds value beyond where it already is 🤷


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## fundy (May 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, okay.

Yes, it doesn't sound like value still. It's what you can do with the brand that adds value beyond where it already is 🤷
		
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Depends why they are buying it and what they want for their money. Not sure value is top of the list


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## ColchesterFC (May 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, okay.

Yes, it doesn't sound like value still. It's what you can do with the brand that adds value beyond where it already is 🤷
		
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A few acres of prime real estate in West London. The land alone has got to be worth a fortune. Build a new bigger stadium out near the training ground at Cobham and sell Stamford Bridge to property developers. Good transport links to the new stadium with it being just off the M25 and a train station nearby.


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## Golfmmad (May 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			That was the most pitiful of performances.
They should all be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
		
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I was at the match today and Brighton were all over them. Should have been 3 nil up in the first half.
But what a player Cucurella is, man of the match!


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## fundy (May 7, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I was at the match today and Brighton were all over them. Should have been 3 nil up in the first half.
But what a player Cucerella is, man of the match!
		
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cracking player when hes not trying to kick everything that moves, only way he could deal with Saka and heard similar a few times this year


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## fundy (May 7, 2022)

massive result for City that


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## Jensen (May 7, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			A few acres of prime real estate in West London. The land alone has got to be worth a fortune. Build a new bigger stadium out near the training ground at Cobham and sell Stamford Bridge to property developers. Good transport links to the new stadium with it being just off the M25 and a train station nearby.
		
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I like the idea of that 👍
Stamford Bridge is falling down, poor old Chelsea 🤣🤣


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## Jensen (May 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			massive result for City that
		
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I see you’ve got to play The Toon away, how do you feel about that ?


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## fundy (May 7, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I see you’ve got to play The Toon away, how do you feel about that ?
		
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All of our games are winnable, and losable lol. Thats what happens when youre inconsistent and not that good. Newcastle on a good run and Leeds/Everton both got plenty to play for! 

As have said for several months we'd be much better off finishing 5th and being in the Europa but, and its a big but, if its us or Spurs, bring it on


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## Lord Tyrion (May 7, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			A few acres of prime real estate in West London. The land alone has got to be worth a fortune. Build a new bigger stadium out near the training ground at Cobham and sell Stamford Bridge to property developers. Good transport links to the new stadium with it being just off the M25 and a train station nearby.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not that familiar with the geography of that area. Is Cobham far from Stamford Bridge? Would it be a goer with the fans? I don't mean emotionally, is it near enough to SB for fans to accept the move?


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## Slime (May 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not that familiar with the geography of that area. Is Cobham far from Stamford Bridge? Would it be a goer with the fans? I don't mean emotionally, is it near enough to SB for fans to accept the move?
		
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No.
It's about 20 miles away and is probably 30-40 minutes drive away.


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## Blue in Munich (May 7, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			A few acres of prime real estate in West London. The land alone has got to be worth a fortune.
		
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Except Roman doesn't own the land; I do.  Well, me and a few like minded souls.   4.25 billion doesn't buy you the name either, me & my mates own that too.



ColchesterFC said:



			Build a new bigger stadium out near the training ground at Cobham and sell Stamford Bridge to property developers. Good transport links to the new stadium with it being just off the M25 and a train station nearby.
		
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The infrastructure there simply isn't up to it, both in terms of the road network or the rail service.  And the residents won't have it, even if it were possible.


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## ColchesterFC (May 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not that familiar with the geography of that area. Is Cobham far from Stamford Bridge? Would it be a goer with the fans? I don't mean emotionally, is it near enough to SB for fans to accept the move?
		
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When have the fans ever been a concern in these decisions? But in answer to your question, Stamford Bridge is where the red star is and I won't insult you by pointing out where the training ground is.....


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## Blue in Munich (May 7, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I like the idea of that 👍
Stamford Bridge is falling down, poor old Chelsea 🤣🤣
		
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Dream on, it ain't happening.


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## backwoodsman (May 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not that familiar with the geography of that area. Is Cobham far from Stamford Bridge? Would it be a goer with the fans? I don't mean emotionally, is it near enough to SB for fans to accept the move?
		
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Stamford Bridge is just west of the heart of central London.  Cobham is about 15 mile southwest of the Bridge - almost out by the M25. I reckon it would displease most current fans who  currently attend. My mate Trev would certainly not be happy.


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## Golfmmad (May 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			That was the most pitiful of performances.
They should all be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
		
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I was at the match today and Brighton were all over them. Should have been 3 nil up in the first half.
But what a player Cucerella is, man of the match


fundy said:



			cracking player when hes not trying to kick everything that moves, only way he could deal with Saka and heard similar a few times this year
		
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Is he that bad, has he been sent off this season?


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## Jensen (May 7, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Stamford Bridge is just west of the heart of central London.  Cobham is about 15 mile southwest of the Bridge - almost out by the M25. I reckon it would displease most current fans who  currently attend. My mate Trev would certainly not be happy.
		
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They have a Big following from Surrey


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## backwoodsman (May 7, 2022)

Jensen said:



			They have a Big following from Surrey
		
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Perhaps so - not  contesting the point.

But the Bridge is fairly straightforward to get to from most of Surrey (if you're not daft enough to try going by car that is). Whereas, bizarrely, Cobham is probably not so so readily accessible for much of Surrey  unless you do try going by car.


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## fundy (May 7, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I was at the match today and Brighton were all over them. Should have been 3 nil up in the first half.
But what a player Cucerella is, man of the match

Is he that bad, has he been sent off this season?
		
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he certainly should have been


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## Jensen (May 7, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Perhaps so - not  contesting the point.

But the Bridge is fairly straightforward to get to from most of Surrey (if you're not daft enough to try going by car that is). Whereas, bizarrely, Cobham is probably not so so readily accessible for much of Surrey  unless you do try going by car.
		
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Croydon has more Chelsea fans than it does Crystal Palace 😂


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## IanM (May 7, 2022)

I'm at my sister's house.  Brother in law and nephews are West Ham season ticket holders..

..they booked accommodation in Seville a month ago on the expectation that they'd have a game to watch..   I'm laughing my head off, they are really miffed!!


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## Foxholer (May 8, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Croydon has more Chelsea fans than it does Crystal Palace 😂
		
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Wouldn't surprise me if it had more ManU or Liverpol ones too. It's not simply a case of supporting the local team these days.


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## pauljames87 (May 8, 2022)

IanM said:



			I'm at my sister's house.  Brother in law and nephews are West Ham season ticket holders..

..they booked accommodation in Seville a month ago on the expectation that they'd have a game to watch..   I'm laughing my head off, they are really miffed!!  

Click to expand...

To Be fair most clubs in europe gamble on cheap tickets when they get through the rounds

a few hammers watched the semi final in barca they bought flights incase we got through and the gamble was it would be against barca as they were favorites

cheap few days in the summer and found the barca hammers to watch the game with


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## Lord Tyrion (May 8, 2022)

Remarkably quiet on here considering the last match played last night.....

Huge game for Everton today. The Burnley train has stalled, Leeds in freefall, we are playing a Leicester team who are flatlining and disappointed after midweek. A win today takes us out of the bottom 3 with a midweek game against Watford to come. 2 wins might be all that we need. But, but, we are an absolute bag of spanners away from home . A day to earn your money Frank.


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## 3offTheTee (May 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Remarkably quiet on here considering the last match played last night.....

Huge game for Everton today. The Burnley train has stalled, Leeds in freefall, we are playing a Leicester team who are flatlining and disappointed after midweek. A win today takes us out of the bottom 3 with a midweek game against Watford to come. 2 wins might be all that we need. But, but, we are an absolute bag of spanners away from home . A day to earn your money Frank.
		
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it has been remarkably quiet over the last 11 hours.

Hope your predictions are correct and Gerrard does his mates across Stanley Park a favour and Tottenham are fstill in with a Champions League  chance.

Leeds have a couple of hard games in Chelsea and Arsenal but you still need to win the 2 games and sure you would settle for 4 points now.
! Buen suerte!


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## Pin-seeker (May 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Remarkably quiet on here considering the last match played last night..[/B]...

Huge game for Everton today. The Burnley train has stalled, Leeds in freefall, we are playing a Leicester team who are flatlining and disappointed after midweek. A win today takes us out of the bottom 3 with a midweek game against Watford to come. 2 wins might be all that we need. But, but, we are an absolute bag of spanners away from home . A day to earn your money Frank.
		
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Been a lot quieter for a couple of week now 
For some reason 🤷‍♂️


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## Bunkermagnet (May 8, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Been a lot quieter for a couple of week now
For some reason 🤷‍♂️
		
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Both the bear, and those who like to poke it.....


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## Pin-seeker (May 8, 2022)

Newcastle 16/1 to win at City today.
Surely not.
Fancy Everton to get something at Leicester & Arsenal to beat Leeds.


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## Golfmmad (May 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Remarkably quiet on here considering the last match played last night.....

Huge game for Everton today. The Burnley train has stalled, Leeds in freefall, we are playing a Leicester team who are flatlining and disappointed after midweek. A win today takes us out of the bottom 3 with a midweek game against Watford to come. 2 wins might be all that we need. But, but, we are an absolute bag of spanners away from home . A day to earn your money Frank.
		
Click to expand...

I really hope Everton stay up. 
It's all down to the players, a bit like e one question shoot out on the Chase. 
It's nothing to do with Frank now, if they want it it's in their hands! 
Good luck!


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## paddyc (May 8, 2022)

Well that's a gift thanks  Leeds!


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## paddyc (May 8, 2022)

As long as they lose today but I really do hope Leeds stay up. Massive club with great support and been in the doldrums  for years and just got back in PL. Not looking good though.


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## fundy (May 8, 2022)

If this isnt red then I dont know what is

Ayling still be out of his depth in the Championship


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## pokerjoke (May 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Remarkably quiet on here considering the last match played last night.....

Huge game for Everton today. The Burnley train has stalled, Leeds in freefall, we are playing a Leicester team who are flatlining and disappointed after midweek. A win today takes us out of the bottom 3 with a midweek game against Watford to come. 2 wins might be all that we need. But, but, we are an absolute bag of spanners away from home . A day to earn your money Frank.
		
Click to expand...

You’d go quiet if you just thought you lost the title.
No more talk of the quadruple.
And all Klopp does is blame the opposition.


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## Bazzatron (May 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			If this isnt red then I dont know what is

Ayling still be out of his depth in the Championship
		
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What a stupid tackle. Relegation battle and he's flying like that, dumb.
Raphina having a go at the ref when he should be slapping Ayling.


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## fundy (May 8, 2022)

genuinely didnt think there could be a worse full back pairing than Soares and Tavares but Ayling and Firpo might just be it. Does Firpo ever actually tackle his man, just constantly grabbing them as they go past

would like to see Arsenal try and rest Gabriel 2nd half before he does anything stupid on a yellow mind


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## paddyc (May 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			If this isnt red then I dont know what is

Ayling still be out of his depth in the Championship
		
Click to expand...

Horror tackle that was..let down his teammates with that. Now out for rest of campaign.


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## paddyc (May 8, 2022)

Quite happily give  Leeds Cedric as Ayling replacement  for last 3 games!


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## fundy (May 8, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Quite happily give  Leeds Cedric as Ayling replacement  for last 3 games!
		
Click to expand...

sons gonna have a field day against him in the week


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## paddyc (May 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			sons gonna have a field day against him in the week 

Click to expand...

Yes he is. I would be going 5 at the back.


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## Papas1982 (May 8, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			You’d go quiet if you just thought you lost the title.
No more talk of the quadruple.
And all Klopp does is blame the opposition.
		
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Imagine losing 4-0 to Brighton and your first thought is to criticise a team(manager) that could still win 4 trophies 😂😂😂😂😂


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## fundy (May 8, 2022)

We never make it easy...........


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## pokerjoke (May 8, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Imagine losing 4-0 to Brighton and your first thought is to criticise a team(manager) that could still win 4 trophies 😂😂😂😂😂
		
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I’m not imagining,we did lose 4-0
Hardly my first thought as it was yesterday and surprisingly enough I’m on other websites.
Luckily I don’t take much notice of what other people think.


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## pauljames87 (May 8, 2022)

Wow Norwich really are terrible

We are 4-0 up.. we played mid week with most of these lot playing 

Antonio even scored who hasn't scored in prem sense new year's Day


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## ColchesterFC (May 8, 2022)




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## Lord Tyrion (May 8, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			You’d go quiet if you just thought you lost the title.
No more talk of the quadruple.
And all Klopp does is blame the opposition.
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking of Spurs fans as much as reds. It was a big game with consequences for both teams.


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## pauljames87 (May 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I was thinking of Spurs fans as much as reds. It was a big game with consequences for both teams.
		
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All the Micky's are getting their hammers shirts ready for 2pm Sunday

Along with villa, Newcastle and wolves shirts lol


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## fundy (May 8, 2022)

well we tried to go full on spursy but thankfully didnt succeed

massive weekend for Everton


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## Lord Tyrion (May 8, 2022)

Super Frank 😄.

Close to perfect weekend for us. Some big momentum changes. If Watford would kindly get on the beach midweek then one more win may be enough


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## pauljames87 (May 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			well we tried to go full on spursy but thankfully didnt succeed

massive weekend for Everton
		
Click to expand...

Think that's It now, can't see Leeds and Burnley getting above them

One is going to fall from those 2


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## 3offTheTee (May 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Super Frank 😄.

Close to perfect weekend for us. Some big momentum changes. If Watford would kindly get on the beach midweek then one more win may be enough
		
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Excellent results. Why not perfect? Can only think Liverpool drawing but that is incidental compared to Leeds and Burnley


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## Lord Tyrion (May 8, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Excellent results. Why not perfect? Can only think Liverpool drawing but that is incidental compared to Leeds and Burnley
		
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Multiple sendings off for Burnley and Leeds 😉. I thought Raphina was going to oblige mind  😄

As well as Burnley and Leeds imploding further we could have had strikers or midfielders scoring, boost confidence. 

It's a blinding weekend but you have to hold something back for a perfect 10 😁


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## Blue in Munich (May 8, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Quite happily give  Leeds Cedric as Ayling replacement  for last 3 games!
		
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Too late, we've already sent them Malang Sarr.


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## Bazzatron (May 8, 2022)

It's OK Liverpool fans, they've got to come to Molineux on Wednesday 😬


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## PhilTheFragger (May 8, 2022)

Wycombe are on their way to Wemberley ⚽️😎👍👍


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## Imurg (May 8, 2022)

Wemberleeeee, Wemberleeeee.....
We're the famous Wycombe Wanderers and we're going to Wemberleeee...
😁😀😃


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## Golfmmad (May 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Multiple sendings off for Burnley and Leeds 😉. I thought Raphina was going to oblige mind  😄

As well as Burnley and Leeds imploding further we could have had strikers or midfielders scoring, boost confidence.

It's a blinding weekend but you have to hold something back for a perfect 10 😁
		
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Just seen Everton first goal. What a strike, there's a perfect 10 right there! 
Got To be a contender for goal of the season!


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## HomerJSimpson (May 9, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Wycombe are on their way to Wemberley ⚽️😎👍👍
		
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They'll only get lost on the way


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## Lord Tyrion (May 9, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Just seen Everton first goal. What a strike, there's a perfect 10 right there!
Got To be a contender for goal of the season!
		
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I bet as he was setting up for that Lampard was screaming 'nooooo' 😆. Fabulous strike. He has really settled these last few weeks and we are seeing the player that we hoped we had bought.


----------



## Swango1980 (May 9, 2022)

I see Jamie Redknapp thinks it is a no brainer for City to sign Pogba, and Richards agreed. Meanwhile, Carragher was the only one talking sense and said City shouldn't go near him. 

Pogba has been completely underwhelming in the years he has played in the hectic nature of the Premier League. I suspect he is also not a great guy to have in the dressing room. I'd be shocked if City wanted him, but they'd be welcome to him.


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## Foxholer (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			All the Micky's are* getting their hammers shirts ready for 2pm Sunday*

Along with villa, Newcastle and wolves shirts lol
		
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I fear it won't work, though hope to be wrong! I think we've got all this year's points already, though a win in the last game would be great for Europe pos!


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I fear it won't work, though hope to be wrong! I think we've got all this year's points already, though a win in the last game would be great for Europe pos!
		
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Shame I just want to finish level on points with utd .. got £50 bet with guy from work that we will finish above them lol made when ole was at the wheel

He is shocked it's so close he was so confident they would be miles clear


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## Bdill93 (May 9, 2022)

Good result for us against Burnley - a very interesting new formation with 3 at the back. Seemed to work well though! Frustrating to concede late on when we were cruising, CB depth needed in summer for sure!

You're welcome @Lord Tyrion  

Liverpool under the villa park lights on Tuesday, going to be a good game that!


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## Bdill93 (May 9, 2022)

United have already played 37 games.. hows that happened?  nice 13 day break for them now!


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			United have already played 37 games.. hows that happened?  nice 13 day break for them now!
		
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I know right. mental , however will they still make it one last loss to palace lol


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## Slime (May 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			United have already played 37 games.. hows that happened?  nice 13 day break for them now!
		
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They weren't cancelling games, willy nilly, during the Covid situation.


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## Bdill93 (May 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			They weren't cancelling games, willy nilly, during the Covid situation.
		
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Seems like the only club that didnt!


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			They weren't cancelling games, willy nilly, during the Covid situation.
		
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did we all imagine United vs brentford and united vs brighton being cancelled then?


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## Foxholer (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Shame I just want to finish level on points with utd .. got £50 bet with guy from work that we will finish above them lol made when ole was at the wheel

He is shocked it's so close he was so confident they would be miles clear
		
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A win at Brighton would be great - and not impossible, given their home form! Not sure about MU at CP either! Can't see Wolves beating City, butt...!


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## Slime (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			did we all imagine United vs brentford and united vs brighton being cancelled then?
		
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No.

Why would we?

Strange question.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I see Jamie Redknapp thinks it is a no brainer for City to sign Pogba, and Richards agreed. Meanwhile, Carragher was the only one talking sense and said City shouldn't go near him.

Pogba has been completely underwhelming in the years he has played in the hectic nature of the Premier League. I suspect he is also not a great guy to have in the dressing room. I'd be shocked if City wanted him, but they'd be welcome to him.
		
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Were they openly taking drugs when they made that statement? I can't think of a more un City like player than Pogba. It's laughable to suggest him going there. Only his agent would suggest that, same trick as Ronaldo's agent played last year?


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## Beezerk (May 9, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Wycombe are on their way to Wemberley ⚽️😎👍👍
		
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Hopefully see you there 🤞🏻


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			No.

Why would we?

Strange question.
		
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you just said united werent canceling games willy nilly

they are a game ahead of everyone.. but also a game weekend ahead

the cancelling of games is nothing to do why they are on 37 games.. as it isnt week 37 game week yet.


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## Swango1980 (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			you just said united werent canceling games willy nilly

they are a game ahead of everyone.. but also a game weekend ahead

the cancelling of games is nothing to do why they are on 37 games.. as it isnt week 37 game week yet.
		
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Maybe there has been an admin error. The system says they've played 37, but in actual fact they've only played about 30, hence the very low points total.

Happy days, once they resolve this, Utd may still have a chance of the top 4


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## ColchesterFC (May 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			United have already played 37 games.. hows that happened?  nice 13 day break for them now!
		
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Judging by the results they've been on a break for the last two months so another 13 days won't make any difference.


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## PhilTheFragger (May 9, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Hopefully see you there 🤞🏻
		
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If I weren’t on a golf weekend in Norfolk I’d defo be there 🙄


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## Beezerk (May 9, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			If I weren’t on a golf weekend in Norfolk I’d defo be there 🙄
		
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I’ve got my own cup final to play on the same day 🙈


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## Billysboots (May 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Were they openly taking drugs when they made that statement? I can't think of a more un City like player than Pogba. It's laughable to suggest him going there. Only his agent would suggest that, same trick as Ronaldo's agent played last year?
		
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Totally agree. Pogba can be a good player in the right league, and has been unbelievable at times in a French shirt. But the Premier League simply doesn’t suit him. I’d be stunned to see him in Man City colours.


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Totally agree. Pogba can be a good player in the right league, and has been unbelievable at times in a French shirt. But the Premier League simply doesn’t suit him. I’d be stunned to see him in Man City colours.
		
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I think he would shine at city. He has those players around him to do the work and let him shine.. rodri would be great next to him

and if he isnt performing there is another superstar to take his place


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## chrisd (May 9, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Wycombe are on their way to Wemberley ⚽️😎👍👍
		
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Why? Did the bus home from the pub get lost?


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## chrisd (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I think he would shine at city. He has those players around him to do the work and let him shine.. rodri would be great next to him

and if he isnt performing there is another superstar to take his place
		
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He's a waste! 

He doesn't appear to understand that he's earning a colossal amount of money a should put in a shift for it


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## Lord Tyrion (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I think he would shine at city. He has those players around him to do the work and let him shine.. rodri would be great next to him

and if he isnt performing there is another superstar to take his place
		
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Can you see Pep allowing him, any player, to simply stand around like that? He is not that exceptional compared to the other midfielders there to allow that to happen. Everyone has to work at City, as they do as well Liverpool. It is part of the ethos.


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## BiMGuy (May 9, 2022)

chrisd said:



			He's a waste!

He doesn't appear to understand that he's earning a colossal amount of money a should put in a shift for it
		
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He gets paid a colossal amount of money regardless of the effort he puts in during a game. That’s the club’s fault not his.


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## Orikoru (May 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I see Jamie Redknapp thinks it is a no brainer for City to sign Pogba, and Richards agreed. Meanwhile, Carragher was the only one talking sense and said City shouldn't go near him.

Pogba has been completely underwhelming in the years he has played in the hectic nature of the Premier League. I suspect he is also not a great guy to have in the dressing room. I'd be shocked if City wanted him, but they'd be welcome to him.
		
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I'm with Redknapp & Richards here. I think at a stable club with a manager that actually understands players, Pogba could thrive. And it's a free transfer - it's not like they'll be worried how much they have to pay him.


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## richart (May 9, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Wycombe are on their way to Wemberley ⚽️😎👍👍
		
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Do you mean Reading Reserves ?


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## Bunkermagnet (May 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm with Redknapp & Richards here. I think at a stable club with a manager that actually understands players, Pogba could thrive. And it's a free transfer - it's not like they'll be worried how much they have to pay him.
		
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So United sold him when they weren’t stable or had a decent manager of many years and trophies?


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So United sold him when they weren’t stable or had a decent manager of many years and trophies?
		
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to be fair they never sold him they let him go for free

wage demands, first team football demands


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## Orikoru (May 9, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So United sold him when they weren’t stable or had a decent manager of many years and trophies?
		
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Sold him?? That was a decade ago when he hadn't even played in the first team more than 5 times! What a weird comment.


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## Bunkermagnet (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			to be fair they never sold him they let him go for free

wage demands, first team football demands
		
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If he was wanted by Fergie, he wouldn’t have been allowed to leave like he did.


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If he was wanted by Fergie, he wouldn’t have been allowed to leave like he did.
		
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he was labelled disrespectful to the club

tbh whoever gets him id be more worried about his fitness only 5 seasons with 30 plus appearances in the league


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## Bunkermagnet (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			he was labelled disrespectful to the club

tbh whoever gets him id be more worried about his fitness only 5 seasons with 30 plus appearances in the league
		
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So if Fergie was happy to get rid of him, doesn’t that say something? It’s not as if Fergie never brought young talent through or could see potential, and also trouble.


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So if Fergie was happy to get rid of him, doesn’t that say something? It’s not as if Fergie never brought young talent through or could see potential, and also trouble.
		
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fergie wouldnt put up with a lot of the attitudes of modern day footballers


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## IainP (May 9, 2022)

Reckon Pep should join on here 😉 😁
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61373787


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## SteveW86 (May 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			United have already played 37 games.. hows that happened?  nice 13 day break for them now!
		
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It will be their longest unbeaten timeframe all season.


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## Swango1980 (May 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm with Redknapp & Richards here. I think at a stable club with a manager that actually understands players, Pogba could thrive. And it's a free transfer - it's not like they'll be worried how much they have to pay him.
		
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Pogba has excellent technical ability, as I've always said. However, is his technical ability better than any of the current City players? I'd doubt that. 

So, you have a player who has given no evidence that he is willing to work hard and "die" for the cause. Roll his sleeves up when things get tough. So, how will the other players at City feel about that. When DeBruyne, Foden or Silva are gasping for air, covering every blade of grass, as Pogba swans about the pitch, with less technical quality than them. Even if his technical quality was higher, I still reckon the other players would get frustrated. Horrible for the dressing room.

I wonder what his wage demands would be? I think only DeBruyne, Sterling and Grealish currently get paid more than him (Sterling and Grealish marginally more). If he demands a huge salary, especially as he is on a free transfer, is that not just another potentially destabilising issue in the dressing room? If he demanded £400,000 a week, that is still over £20million a year on a possible waste of space. I know City have lots of money, but surely they can think of better ways to invest that money?

Besides, how much has Pogba been out injured? He is either an injury liability, or a player who has the attitude of just faking injuries to avoid playing. Neither sounds appealing. I'd stay well clear of him.


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## Orikoru (May 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Pogba has excellent technical ability, as I've always said. However, *is his technical ability better than any of the current City players?* I'd doubt that.

So, you have a player who has given no evidence that he is willing to work hard and "die" for the cause. Roll his sleeves up when things get tough. So, how will the other players at City feel about that. When DeBruyne, Foden or Silva are gasping for air, covering every blade of grass, as Pogba swans about the pitch, with less technical quality than them. Even if his technical quality was higher, I still reckon the other players would get frustrated. Horrible for the dressing room.

I wonder what his wage demands would be? I think only DeBruyne, Sterling and Grealish currently get paid more than him (Sterling and Grealish marginally more). If he demands a huge salary, especially as he is on a free transfer, is that not just another potentially destabilising issue in the dressing room? If he demanded £400,000 a week, that is still over £20million a year on a possible waste of space. I know City have lots of money, but surely they can think of better ways to invest that money?

Besides, how much has Pogba been out injured? He is either an injury liability, or a player who has the attitude of just faking injuries to avoid playing. Neither sounds appealing. I'd stay well clear of him.
		
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At his peak, yes, he's one of the very best in the world. And very few in that City team actually hold down a place in the team every week anyway. We know he's a world class player because we've seen it at Juve and with France, and only in very limited spells at Utd. But I genuinely believe Pep is a good enough manager of players to get the best out of him. Which involves both motivating the player, and playing a system that suits him, players around him that complement him. How often has he had those things at Utd? Almost never I'd say. He doesn't work hard defensively, but City is exactly the sort of side where he wouldn't really have to for 9 games out of 10, they have other players who can handle that. The free transfer makes it appealing and obviously offsets some of the wage demands. 

All that said, I think it's very unlikely he'd go there, seems more likely to go for the easy gig like a PSG or something.


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## Swango1980 (May 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			At his peak, yes, he's one of the very best in the world. And very few in that City team actually hold down a place in the team every week anyway. We know he's a world class player because we've seen it at Juve and with France, and only in very limited spells at Utd. But I genuinely believe Pep is a good enough manager of players to get the best out of him. Which involves both motivating the player, and playing a system that suits him, players around him that complement him. How often has he had those things at Utd? Almost never I'd say. He doesn't work hard defensively, but City is exactly the sort of side where he wouldn't really have to for 9 games out of 10, they have other players who can handle that. The free transfer makes it appealing and obviously offsets some of the wage demands. 

All that said, I think it's very unlikely he'd go there, seems more likely to go for the easy gig like a PSG or something.
		
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Maybe City fans would be better versed in explaining the work rate of their players. However, seems to me that every player on the pitch gives 100% in and out of possession. It does not appear that they carry any players when it comes to defending as a team.

If that is the case, why would they want a player, arguably not as good technically what they already have, and have to ask everyone else to work harder to cover for him?

Playing for France is different. Not only are the opposition often much weaker, but any side you play against has limited time to work as a team. Not like a club side who work with the same players week in, week out. So, at club level he will usually be up against very well drilled sides. I never watched him at Juve. But, I understand it is played at a much slower pace, and Juve were much better than most sides they played.

Clearly, if Pogba went to City, Pogba would do better simply as he'd be playing in a better side. However, from City's point of view, it would surely be a downgrade. There must be many more better players out there, players who work hard and always ready for a fight.


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe City fans would be better versed in explaining the work rate of their players. However, seems to me that every player on the pitch gives 100% in and out of possession. It does not appear that they carry any players when it comes to defending as a team.

If that is the case, why would they want a player, arguably not as good technically what they already have, and have to ask everyone else to work harder to cover for him?

Playing for France is different. Not only are the opposition often much weaker, but any side you play against has limited time to work as a team. Not like a club side who work with the same players week in, week out. So, at club level he will usually be up against very well drilled sides. I never watched him at Juve. But, I understand it is played at a much slower pace, and Juve were much better than most sides they played.

Clearly, if Pogba went to City, Pogba would do better simply as he'd be playing in a better side. However, from City's point of view, it would surely be a downgrade. There must be many more better players out there, players who work hard and always ready for a fight.
		
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Chelsea done alright with lampard having others do his work whilst he performed fantastically as an attacking midfielder


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## Orikoru (May 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe City fans would be better versed in explaining the work rate of their players. However, seems to me that every player on the pitch gives 100% in and out of possession. It does not appear that they carry any players when it comes to defending as a team.

If that is the case, why would they want a player, arguably not as good technically what they already have, and have to ask everyone else to work harder to cover for him?

Playing for France is different. Not only are the opposition often much weaker, but any side you play against has limited time to work as a team. Not like a club side who work with the same players week in, week out. So, at club level he will usually be up against very well drilled sides. I never watched him at Juve. But, I understand it is played at a much slower pace, and Juve were much better than most sides they played.

Clearly, if Pogba went to City, Pogba would do better simply as he'd be playing in a better side. However, from City's point of view, it would surely be a downgrade. There must be many more better players out there, players who work hard and always ready for a fight.
		
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As I've said, on his day he is absolutely world class and technically better than anyone. He just hasn't had a lot of those days in a United shirt. I think he would work a little harder if he was more motivated. But Yaya Toure did pretty well at City, and he stopped working defensively for pretty much his last 3 or 4 seasons. Like Yaya, it isn't just technique with Pogba, it's size and strength as well - City don't have so much of that. Pogba is certainly an upgrade on Gundogan for example, and gives them something different to Foden and Bernardo by being about 6 inches taller than them.

Anyway, I don't want to argue about this all day since it's (a) just my opinion and (b) speculation that'll probably never happen.


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## Swango1980 (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Chelsea done alright with lampard having others do his work whilst he performed fantastically as an attacking midfielder
		
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One for Chelsea fans to think about. However, I suspect Chelsea did not play with the same tactics as City. I never saw Lampard as lazy personally, and he always seemed to have a strong winning mentality. Does Pogba have that? Not shown it in a long time at best.


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## Skytot (May 9, 2022)

Haaland expected to sign for City this week. They’ve signed Alvarez already . Some fire power that


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## Swango1980 (May 9, 2022)

Skytot said:



			Haaland expected to sign for City this week. They’ve signed Alvarez already . Some fire power that
		
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I hope United respond and re-sign Ighalo.


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## Bdill93 (May 9, 2022)

Skytot said:



			Haaland expected to sign for City this week. They’ve signed Alvarez already . Some fire power that
		
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I can see Alvarez being loaned out if they do bring in Haaland but you're right, its quite laughable how insane their forward line will be next year


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## Bdill93 (May 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I hope United respond and re-sign Ighalo.
		
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Reckon Ronaldo is off? Cant work out where I think he would go if im honest! But he will want CL football!


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## Slime (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



*you just said united werent canceling games willy nilly*

they are a game ahead of everyone.. but also a game weekend ahead

the cancelling of games is nothing to do why they are on 37 games.. as it isnt week 37 game week yet.
		
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I actually said they weren't cancelling games, willy nilly, *during the Covid situation.*

Subtle difference.

The other teams are all playing catch up due to missed games .......................... cancelled during the Covid situation.


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## Swango1980 (May 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Reckon Ronaldo is off? Cant work out where I think he would go if im honest! But he will want CL football!
		
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Who knows for sure? I hope he stays, and his celebrations in his last game at home might indicate that. Yes, not playing Champions League is the big thing that might make him decide to play elsewhere. 

In terms players leaving Utd, there are many many more suitable candidates to get booted out before Ronaldo. And they'll need replaced, so if Ronaldo was to also go it just adds another position that needs filling, and another headache. So, I think the decision is more down to Ronaldo, rather than the club or management happy to let him go.


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			I actually said they weren't cancelling games, willy nilly, *during the Covid situation.*

Subtle difference.

The other teams are all playing catch up due to missed games .......................... cancelled during the Covid situation.
		
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Sorry but you have missed the entire point and are incorrect

We are on game week 36. Game week 37 is next week 

United are one game ahead of everyone and have no game next week in game week 37

They played a game before everyone else


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Sorry but you have missed the entire point and are incorrect

We are on game week 36. Game week 37 is next week

United are one game ahead of everyone and have no game next week in game week 37

They played a game before everyone else
		
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Sunday, May 15, 2022
Aston Villa v Crystal Palace
Everton v Brentford
Leeds United v Brighton
Manchester United v Chelsea
Newcastle United v Arsenal
Southampton v Liverpool
Tottenham Hotspur v Burnley
Watford v Leicester City
West Ham United v Manchester City
Wolverhampton v Norwich City

This was the original fixture list for Sunday 

saturday is the fa cup final 

your game was moved is why NOTHING to do with covid


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## Bdill93 (May 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who knows for sure? I hope he stays, and his celebrations in his last game at home might indicate that. Yes, not playing Champions League is the big thing that might make him decide to play elsewhere.

In terms players leaving Utd, there are many many more suitable candidates to get booted out before Ronaldo. And they'll need replaced, so if Ronaldo was to also go it just adds another position that needs filling, and another headache. So, I think the decision is more down to Ronaldo, rather than the club or management happy to let him go.
		
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Someone would have to buy him too I suppose! Might not be many suitors out there... PSG seems the obvious option if Mbappe goes  Messi and Ronaldo in the same team, can you even imagine!


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## Slime (May 9, 2022)

We have one game to play, most have three games to play, some have four!
The fixture list has got all backed up, due to Covid.
That is why United don't have a game this week, because they're not having to play catch up.


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## pauljames87 (May 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			We have one game to play, most have three games to play, some have four!
The fixture list has got all backed up, due to Covid.
That is why United don't have a game this week, because they're not having to play catch up.
		
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No it's not 

They don't have a game to play because their games were fitted in and the chelsea game moved because of fa cup final 

Otherwise you would be playing them this week

It's very rare to have a non game week when not playing in a comp

The two teams in the final had games to play so fitted them in the week after 

Your games that were delayed were fitted in sooner as other teams were still in the cups etc 

It is to do with the fa cup final moving your Chelsea game not covid


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## Foxholer (May 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			We have one game to play, most have three games to play, some have four!
The fixture list has got all backed up, due to Covid.
That is why United don't have a game this week, because they're not having to play catch up.
		
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Maybe those who did the schedule didn't anticipate how 'sh1te' MU's season would be/thought they might feature in more European/Cup games!


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## Slime (May 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			No it's not

They don't have a game to play because their games were fitted in and the chelsea game moved because of fa cup final

Otherwise you would be playing them this week

It's very rare to have a non game week when not playing in a comp

The two teams in the final had games to play so fitted them in the week after

Your games that were delayed were fitted in sooner as other teams were still in the cups etc

It is to do with the fa cup final moving your Chelsea game not covid
		
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Okay, you've just answered your own question.


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## Italian outcast (May 9, 2022)

Black cats@ Wembley


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## clubchamp98 (May 9, 2022)

So Pep thinks the whole country want Liverpool to win the title.?
He obviously dosnt read this thread.


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## Foxholer (May 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			So Pep thinks the whole country want Liverpool to win the title.?
He obviously dosnt read this thread.
		
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Just more of the usual B-S soundbtes that most top managers - including Klopp - spout. Mourinho, particularly, and Fergie, when understandable, were experts at it. Wenger not so much. I haven't seen enough of the other current top 6 managers to really comment on them, but I'm sure they are similar, if slightly toned down. It's also part of the way they 'inspire' the players too.


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## arnieboy (May 10, 2022)

Italian outcast said:



			Black cats@ Wembley 

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My son in law is praying that they win and get promoted after so many attempts.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 10, 2022)

Italian outcast said:



			Black cats@ Wembley 

Click to expand...

#prayforbeezerk this morning 😆

Both are big teams too long in the doldrums.


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## Beezerk (May 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			#prayforbeezerk this morning 😆

Both are big teams too long in the doldrums.
		
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Awful game of football, the quality was shocking. We did our usual trick, press, press, press for a goal and get suckered on the break.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 10, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Awful game of football, the quality was shocking. We did our usual trick, press, press, press for a goal and get suckered on the break.
		
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Too much pressure or is the standard just not very good?


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## Beezerk (May 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Too much pressure or is the standard just not very good?
		
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100% it’s lack of quality mate, we have a small number of decent players and the rest are just League 1 cloggers who aren’t comfortable with the “play out from the back” thing we try and do. We spent half the game playing head tennis in midfield, it was just crying out for someone to get their foot on it and play a simple pass. Terrible game of football to watch.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 10, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			100% it’s lack of quality mate, we have a small number of decent players and the rest are just League 1 cloggers who aren’t comfortable with the “play out from the back” thing we try and do. We spent half the game playing head tennis in midfield, it was just crying out for someone to get their foot on it and play a simple pass. Terrible game of football to watch.
		
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I saw the preview and first few minutes. From what was said, is what you describe not what Barry Bannan is there for? Did he upset someone yesterday and they just bypassed him?

Green shoots for next year or does another year in that division just drag you down further?


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw the preview and first few minutes. From what was said, is what you describe not what Barry Bannan is there for? Did he upset someone yesterday and they just bypassed him?

Green shoots for next year or does another year in that division just drag you down further?
		
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anything good they did came from Bannan from what I saw of the game, that said he had to go looking for it rather them providing him a platform to work from. he must be getting on a bit now too?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			anything good they did came from Bannan from what I saw of the game, that said he had to go looking for it rather them providing him a platform to work from. he must be getting on a bit now too?
		
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32 apparently. Looks older than that, tough paper round . Sounds like the sort of player the other team members should be feeding, not bypassing. Next year..........


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			32 apparently. Looks older than that, tough paper round . Sounds like the sort of player the other team members should be feeding, not bypassing. Next year..........
		
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very tough lol


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## Beezerk (May 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw the preview and first few minutes. From what was said, is what you describe not what Barry Bannan is there for? Did he upset someone yesterday and they just bypassed him?

Green shoots for next year or does another year in that division just drag you down further?
		
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Like has been mentioned, he had to go looking for the ball for the whole game. The first leg he was almost like a holding midfielder not a no 10 like he’s supposed to be. Going to be tough next season, you’d expect Derby to win the league then a scrap for second between Barnsley and a group of 6 or 7 teams.


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## Italian outcast (May 10, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			100% it’s lack of quality mate, we have a small number of decent players and the rest are just League 1 cloggers who aren’t comfortable with the “play out from the back” thing we try and do. We spent half the game playing head tennis in midfield, it was just crying out for someone to get their foot on it and play a simple pass. Terrible game of football to watch.
		
Click to expand...

I think you have the platform to go straight up next year - but its a horrific league to escape from


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## Beezerk (May 10, 2022)

Italian outcast said:



			I think you have the platform to go straight up next year - but its a horrific league to escape from
		
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You would think so with a couple of astute signings. We missed Lee Gregory massively this season, I think if he’d have been fit for most of the games we’d have been pushing for automatic promotion. As much as Paterson puts himself about he really isn’t good enough to score goals on a regular basis.


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## Swango1980 (May 10, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			You would think so with a couple of astute signings. We missed Lee Gregory massively this season, I think if he’d have been fit for most of the games we’d have been pushing for automatic promotion. As much as Paterson puts himself about he really isn’t good enough to score goals on a regular basis.
		
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My mate is a Wednesday season ticket holder. We were on a golf trip last week, so watched the first leg in a pub. He was meant to go last night, but got Covid on the golf trip so couldn't. I watched the match, and was supporting Wednesday mainly because he's a fan. I don't watch much football outside the Premiership, and I know I shouldn't take 2 games in isolation as an advertisement for lower league football. But, both matches were a really tough watch. Mind you, I've watched Man Utd all season and that has been tough to watch as well.


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## Bdill93 (May 10, 2022)

Coutinho signing all but done for Villa!

20m Euros (17.1m GBP) with Barca holding 50% of his sell on value (not likely to be sold for much after his contract is he really)

Great bit of business that


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Coutinho signing all but done for Villa!

20m Euros (17.1m GBP) with Barca holding 50% of his sell on value (not likely to be sold for much after his contract is he really)

Great bit of business that
		
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whats his wages going forward as surely thats the real cost?


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## Bdill93 (May 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			whats his wages going forward as surely thats the real cost?
		
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Nothing from any decent sources reporting it - but I imagine 150-200k a week. 

Honestly doesnt bother me in the slightest what we pay our players though. Talent costs (Haaland rumoured to be on 500k a week at city).


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Nothing from any decent sources reporting it - but I imagine 150-200k a week.

Honestly doesnt bother me in the slightest what we pay our players though. Talent costs (Haaland rumoured to be on 500k a week at city).
		
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Coutinho rumoured to be on 400k currently isnt he, hence why I asked (as one years current wages more than the tfr fee)

haalands wages a fraction o the deal too, his sign on bonus the big part of that deal!!


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## Bdill93 (May 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Coutinho rumoured to be on *400k currently* isnt he, hence why I asked (as one years current wages more than the tfr fee)

haalands wages a fraction o the deal too, his sign on bonus the big part of that deal!!
		
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Yeah we wont be paying that much! Hes moving for footballing reasons now, not money - which is quite refreshing to see.. but I suppose he's made his serious money already!


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Rudiger reportedly getting a 35m signing on bonus at Real Madrid  and its not even close to the biggest signing on bonus of the day lol

Clubs really dont help themselves, going to be more and more players running their contracts down


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## pauljames87 (May 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Rudiger reportedly getting a 35m signing on bonus at Real Madrid  and its not even close to the biggest signing on bonus of the day lol

Clubs really dont help themselves, going to be more and more players running their contracts down
		
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How much to buy him last year? Would £35 million be enough for his ability with that length of contract.. mental signing fee if say he had been 50 mil it would have been worth it


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## nickjdavis (May 10, 2022)

Champions League to expand from 32 to 36 teams from 2024 as Uefa approves changes - BBC Sport

European Super League Moves a step closer...not even stealthily!!!

Soon it will be difficult to NOT qualify for Europe!!


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Rudiger reportedly getting a 35m signing on bonus at Real Madrid  and its not even close to the biggest signing on bonus of the day lol

Clubs really dont help themselves, going to be more and more players running their contracts down
		
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Not a bad salary either https://www.skysports.com/football/...-real-madrid-ahead-of-free-transfer-in-summer


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not a bad salary either https://www.skysports.com/football/...-real-madrid-ahead-of-free-transfer-in-summer

Click to expand...


think those figures include the signing on fee spread over the contract from what i read earlier


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2022)

Fire up the squirrel


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## Swango1980 (May 10, 2022)

Have Liverpool just signed Man Utd's entire defence?


----------



## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Jota getting away with murder again 

BTTS backers trying to find some interest now lol


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## Lord Tyrion (May 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Have Liverpool just signed Man Utd's entire defence?
		
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Some went to Liverpool, some clearly signed for Villa 🤣


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Fabinho injured himself trying to commit his 4th foul inside half an hour lol, if that had been Fernandinho........


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Jon Moss been horrific even by his own standards!!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2022)

What a miss by Keita


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## Bazzatron (May 10, 2022)

How much you think Jon Moss charges for a week in the caravan he's towing?


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			How much you think Jon Moss charges for a week in the caravan he's towing?
		
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id rather pay for what minute hes finally gonna locate his yellow card in


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## Bazzatron (May 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			id rather pay for what minute hes finally gonna locate his yellow card in 

Click to expand...

Someone's had a cards bet haha
Don't worry, they'll be out shortly when he needs a rest.


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Someone's had a cards bet haha
Don't worry, they'll be out shortly when he needs a rest.
		
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haha no im waiting to bet when he shows the first one, that or half time


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## BrianM (May 10, 2022)

One things for sure, Andy Robertson doesn’t need to worry about losing his left back slot 😂


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## Dando (May 10, 2022)

Why wasn’t the villa goal chalked off for offside when Watkins had a shot?


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## adam6177 (May 10, 2022)

Dando said:



			Why wasn’t the villa goal chalked off for offside when Watkins had a shot?
		
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I'm going to assume the "phase of play" argument.

The way offside is managed these days is a farce. Player clearly offside affects the game and it leads to a corner/free kick/goal but because another phase of play happens the offside never gets given.  It's the one rule that really gets up my nose.


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## ColchesterFC (May 10, 2022)

Dando said:



			Why wasn’t the villa goal chalked off for offside when Watkins had a shot?
		
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Assistant referees told not to flag if it's close and to let play continue. If it had directly led to a goal it would've been ruled out for Watkins being offside. As play continued and then the goal was scored in the second or third phase of play they don't go back to the original decision. I'm not defending the rules as it's a complete shambles but that's what we're currently forced to live with.


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

geez liverpool fans wont be moaning about time wasting for a while will they, mane keita etc


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## hairball_89 (May 10, 2022)

Well... made hard work of that. Villa were brilliant.

But my god it's a good job Jon Moss is retiring. He was awful. Not sure he was up with play at all.


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Villa look a much better side when Nakamba plays in the middle to me, not sure Gerrard knows his best formation or side currently though. Be interesting to see where they are at the start of next season


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## Baldy Bouncer (May 10, 2022)

Job done tonight.


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## Liverbirdie (May 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Fabinho injured himself trying to commit his 4th foul inside half an hour lol, if that had been Fernandinho........
		
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I agree surprised he wasnt booked.

Equally all of Villas midfield?


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## fundy (May 10, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree surprised he wasnt booked.

Equally all of Villas midfield?
		
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and mane, keita, jota and thiago


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## Liverbirdie (May 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			and mane, keita, jota and thiago 

Click to expand...

 I dont think they done 4-5 fouls each like the others, oh aye and Konsa.


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## Neilds (May 11, 2022)

Not sure I can understand how clubs are valuing players nowadays.  Haaland is meant to be the best player ever, Talksport host yesterday reckons he can score 40+ goals next season  but costs £51 million.  That makes him only half as good as Grealish who has become a squad player and worse than Maguire!!!
Or does this mean clubs are paying some sort of premium for English players?


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## pauljames87 (May 11, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Not sure I can understand how clubs are valuing players nowadays.  Haaland is meant to be the best player ever, Talksport host yesterday reckons he can score 40+ goals next season  but costs £51 million.  That makes him only half as good as Grealish who has become a squad player and worse than Maguire!!!
Or does this mean clubs are paying some sort of premium for English players?
		
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Contracts. He had a release Clause and they met it 

If he didn't have it he would be worth triple that

"When he left Red Bull Salzburg in January 2019, whoever was going to sign him had to agree to have this release clause in his contract - €60m in the summer of 2022. He was available then for €20m, which is about £18m. Manchester United were very keen to sign him, but wouldn't agree to have this release clause in his contract. Whereas it made sense for Dortmund to sign him for €20m, he scores loads of goals for them, and he leaves two-and-a-half years later for €60m. So they make a €40m profit.

But for a club the size of Manchester United you can't have one of their star players having a release clause that is only €60m, one of their rivals could come up and sign him. That's the reason he is going for a relatively cheap fee, this release clause. He was effectively using Dortmund as a stepping stone and I don't think a club like Man Utd would have accepted being used as a stepping stone. You have to say Haaland's agents are being clever"


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			and mane, keita, jota and thiago 

Click to expand...

Just shows how poor the refereeing is now.
If you let players kick lumps out of each other they will carry on doing it until the card starts appearing.
Moss was shocking last night.
He played some advantage’s when there wasn’t one but didn’t bring it back for the foul for both teams.
The fans were right “ you don’t know what your doing “ was apt.


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Assistant referees told not to flag if it's close and to let play continue. If it had directly led to a goal it would've been ruled out for Watkins being offside. As play continued and then the goal was scored in the second or third phase of play they don't go back to the original decision. I'm not defending the rules as it's a complete shambles but that's what we're currently forced to live with.
		
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I thought once he shoots and the keeper saves it that’s the end of that phase of play .
That’s when the flag should go up.
If not you basically can only be offside if you score.

Later in the game long ball into the defence CB clears the ball into ops half but the flag goes up and they bring play back for offside.
It’s a joke.


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## Swango1980 (May 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought once he shoots and the keeper saves it that’s the end of that phase of play .
*That’s when the flag should go up*.
If not you basically can only be offside if you score.

Later in the game long ball into the defence CB clears the ball into ops half but the flag goes up and they bring play back for offside.
It’s a joke.
		
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And that is exactly what would have happened if the linesman saw it as offside. Goal or not, they'd have put their flag up. However, the linesman clearly didn't see it as offside. So, if the shot was scored, or fell directly to a team mate who would have scored, VAR would have given it as offside, rather than the linesman. However, this did not happen. And, by the time the goal was scored, by what we see defined as different phases of play week in, week out, the goal clearly came in a different phase of play (coming after 2 crosses later).


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## theoneandonly (May 11, 2022)

Apparently loads of the the Liverpool squad have asthma...

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog...eating-with-doctors-notes-for-drugs-for-years


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

He was cle


Swango1980 said:



			And that is exactly what would have happened if the linesman saw it as offside. Goal or not, they'd have put their flag up. However, the linesman clearly didn't see it as offside. So, if the shot was scored, or fell directly to a team mate who would have scored, VAR would have given it as offside, rather than the linesman. However, this did not happen. And, by the time the goal was scored, by what we see defined as different phases of play week in, week out, the goal clearly came in a different phase of play (coming after 2 crosses later).
		
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He was clearly offside if he can’t see that he should not be in the PL.


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## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2022)

These results happening:

Wolves 2-1 City
West Ham 0-1 City
City 3-1 Villa

Saints 0-2 Liverpool
Liverpool 3-0 Wolves

Would mean a play-off match for the Premier League title would have to happen between City & Liverpool.

Chances?


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## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Apparently loads of the the Liverpool squad have asthma...

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog...eating-with-doctors-notes-for-drugs-for-years

Click to expand...

Yeah just like they had Covid 😂😂
Dodgy Doctor at Anfield? 🤷‍♂️😂😂


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## Foxholer (May 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			These results happening:

Wolves 2-1 City
West Ham 0-1 City
City 3-1 Villa

Saints 0-2 Liverpool
Liverpool 3-0 Wolves

Would mean a play-off match for the Premier League title would have to happen between City & Liverpool.

Chances?
		
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Can't see Wolves beating City. Nor, unfortunately, City only putting 1 past Hammers.


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			These results happening:

Wolves 2-1 City
West Ham 0-1 City
City 3-1 Villa

Saints 0-2 Liverpool
Liverpool 3-0 Wolves

Would mean a play-off match for the Premier League title would have to happen between City & Liverpool.

Chances?
		
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If Villa play like they did against us they might squeeze a one goal loss so no need for a playoff.


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## hairball_89 (May 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			These results happening:

Wolves 2-1 City
West Ham 0-1 City
City 3-1 Villa

Saints 0-2 Liverpool
Liverpool 3-0 Wolves

Would mean a play-off match for the Premier League title would have to happen between City & Liverpool.

Chances?
		
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City will win all their games, comfortably. Our chance to get ahead was against them. But, we're barely in a worse place than before the spurs game. its out of our hands, as it was then.

If you'd offered me 1 trophy in the bag, 2 more cup finals and a chance of the league with 2 games to go in august, of course I'd have taken it! But that being said, the playoff would be brilliant. Can we do it at Old Trafford?!


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## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Can't see Wolves beating City. Nor, unfortunately, City only putting 1 past Hammers.
		
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Me neither.
You’d get MASSIVE odds at the bookies for it to happen.


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Me neither.
You’d get MASSIVE odds at the bookies for it to happen.
		
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That’s why the bookies all drive Bentleys.


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## Foxholer (May 11, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			City will win all their games, comfortably. Our chance to get ahead was against them. But, we're barely in a worse place than before the spurs game. its out of our hands, as it was then.

If you'd offered me 1 trophy in the bag, 2 more cup finals and a chance of the league with 2 games to go in august, of course I'd have taken it! But that being said, the playoff would be brilliant. Can we do it at Old Trafford?!
		
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Indeed, while the possibility of 4 titles exists, the possibility of 0 does too! It would be a shame and I don't think it'll happen (FA Cup being the most likely imo) but I'd quietly chuckle a bit if it did - purely because of the amount of hype that's been spouted by so many!
Does it seem to anyone else that all the wowing has been about Liverpool and City have quietly and relentlessly gone about their business (FA SF apart). That particular game was the (Club) match of the season (decade even) for me.


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## Piece (May 11, 2022)

Watford side v Everton tonight 😳🤡

Three points on a plate for the 🔵


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## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2022)

Piece said:



			Watford side v Everton tonight 😳🤡

Three points on a plate for the 🔵
		
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And Chelsea already 1 up.
Leeds look doomed.


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## Swango1980 (May 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			He was cle

He was clearly offside if he can’t see that he should not be in the PL.
		
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It was only clearly offside once we watched the sky footage. It wasn't clearly offside from the linesman's perspective, otherwise he'd have given it. And, from memory, I can sympathise with him as he was only marginally offside, not like it was by miles?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			And Chelsea already 1 up.
Leeds look doomed.
		
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Shame (not).


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## Swango1980 (May 11, 2022)

Leeds players are an embarrassment. Ridiculous red cards in last 2 games.


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## paddyc (May 11, 2022)

Harsh red that!!🤣🤣


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## paddyc (May 11, 2022)

Chelsea have a cigar on.


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## PieMan (May 11, 2022)

Leeds trying to recreate 1970 FA Cup Final........!


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## BiMGuy (May 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Leeds players are an embarrassment. Ridiculous red cards in last 2 games.
		
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James got the ball 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## fundy (May 11, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Leeds trying to recreate 1970 FA Cup Final........! 

Click to expand...


they started a week or two ago lol, utterly lost the plot it seems


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It was only clearly offside once we watched the sky footage. It wasn't clearly offside from the linesman's perspective, otherwise he'd have given it. And, from memory, I can sympathise with him as he was only marginally offside, not like it was by miles?
		
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The Lino is right online he’s got the best view in the ground.
If he can’t see that’s offside then he should not be in that job.
He has been order to keep his flag down for close ones but that was offside to any decent Lino.
You have a different view that’s fine.


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			James got the ball 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
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Means nothing now getting the ball.
More embarrassing was the Leeds fans abusing the lad as he hobbled off .


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## Swango1980 (May 11, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			James got the ball 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
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So?


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## fundy (May 11, 2022)

decent city goal that

look a different side without the european curse


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## fundy (May 11, 2022)

scrap that lol

1-1 game on


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## Swango1980 (May 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The Lino is right online he’s got the best view in the ground.
If he can’t see that’s offside then he should not be in that job.
He has been order to keep his flag down for close ones but that was offside to any decent Lino.
You have a different view that’s fine.
		
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Every linesman that has ever lived, I am in no doubt, have made wrong offside calls either way. The job isn't as easy as you think it is, and with that opinion no linesman should be allowed to work again. If he was miles offside, then you can start to wonder how such a mistake was made. But he wasn't. 

And, the fact they are ordered to keep flag down for close ones is irrelevant, because as I said before, he'd have put it up after the shot if he thought it was offside anyway


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

KDB what a footballer.


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## Piece (May 11, 2022)

Can we sign Kevin de Bruyne on a free?


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## Swango1980 (May 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			KDB what a footballer.
		
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Pretty sure City will still be desperate for Pogba though. Pogba is better than DeBruyne technically, apparently


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

Wh


Swango1980 said:



			Pretty sure City will still be desperate for Pogba though. Pogba is better than DeBruyne technically, apparently 

Click to expand...

Who thinks that?
Pogba is good on his day. Which is rare.
KDB does it all the time.
Best player in the PL imo.


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## BiMGuy (May 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Means nothing now getting the ball.
More embarrassing was the Leeds fans abusing the lad as he hobbled off .
		
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I know. It hasn’t meant anything for over 29 years. I’ve said the same myself many times on here. It was rather tongue in cheek.

Name one at of fans who don’t boo the opposition at every opportunity.


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## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			KDB what a footballer.
		
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Unreal player,makes the game look easy.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 11, 2022)

What is Pogba going to bring to City apart from a huge wage bill, divisive attitude and a performance once in a blue moon when he fancies it. City are well out of getting him and think it is a bad idea. Let him go abroad somewhere to a club likely to win a title anyway and phone it in as he wants


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## Swango1980 (May 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Wh

Who thinks that?
Pogba is good on his day. Which is rare.
KDB does it all the time.
Best player in the PL imo.
		
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See post 27134, where Orikoru said of Pogba:

"...on his day he is absolutely world class and technically better than anyone" 

There are some dreamers out there


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## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			See post 27134, where Orikoru said of Pogba:

"...on his day he is absolutely world class and technically better than anyone"

There are some dreamers out there
		
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He’s a Spurs fan though.
So Pogba must look good


----------



## Jimaroid (May 11, 2022)

Dull and infuriating game against Watford there. Feel we really should and could have pushed for three points in that.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2022)

Think we can forget the goal difference in PL race.


----------



## fundy (May 11, 2022)

Super impressive from KDB. Hard to see how anyone gets a point off them before the end of the season


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Indeed, while the possibility of 4 titles exists, the possibility of 0 does too! It would be a shame and I don't think it'll happen (FA Cup being the most likely imo) but I'd quietly chuckle a bit if it did - purely because of the amount of hype that's been spouted by so many!
Does it seem to anyone else that all the wowing has been about Liverpool and City have quietly and relentlessly gone about their business (FA SF apart). That particular game was the (Club) match of the season (decade even) for me.
		
Click to expand...

Erm, we've already won the league cup, so nil isnt a possibility.

I think pep's one man hype machine for City means they arent that quiet.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 11, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Dull and infuriating game against Watford there. Feel we really should and could have pushed for three points in that.
		
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A win would have made us safe, not mathematically but in reality. A point is better than none though, how far have we dropped 🙄. 

Bring on Brentford at home, maybe we can relax after then. Thank heavens Leeds are in free fall and Burnley have a tough run in.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Every linesman that has ever lived, I am in no doubt, have made wrong offside calls either way. The job isn't as easy as you think it is, and with that opinion no linesman should be allowed to work again. If he was miles offside, then you can start to wonder how such a mistake was made. But he wasn't.

And, the fact they are ordered to keep flag down for close ones is irrelevant, because as I said before, he'd have put it up after the shot if he thought it was offside anyway
		
Click to expand...

I've more of a problem with the VAR ref for not pulling it back.

As has been said elsewhere, would Allison have been better to have let the first shot in, albeit at a massive risk as it would then have been ruled out as offside. Personally i dont think it was a different phase of play as it was all a part of the same move.


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## Foxholer (May 11, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Erm, we've already won the league cup, so nil isnt a possibility.

I think pep's one man hype machine for City means they arent that quiet.
		
Click to expand...

 Doh! Missed that! Did have a niggle about what the 4th one was. 'Replay' Saturday!
I think Klopp wins the 'hype machine' rating by some margin. But that's also an indication of how (well) they can inspire their players, so I don't see that as a 'negative' trait.


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## Bazzatron (May 11, 2022)

I think KDB is the top goal scorer at Molineux this season.


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## Swango1980 (May 11, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I've more of a problem with the VAR ref for not pulling it back.

As has been said elsewhere, would Allison have been better to have let the first shot in, albeit at a massive risk as it would then have been ruled out as offside. Personally i dont think it was a different phase of play as it was all a part of the same move.
		
Click to expand...

Well, if Allison had let it in it would have been offside. But, clearly it wouldn't have been better for him to do so, as he'd have had no idea if it was offside or not. That would be a horrific mentality if a keeper, would backfire frequently.

The phase of play is subjective, but a lot happened after that. After the offside, Liverpool players had the chance to get back into positions and defend, and a couple of crosses later the goal was scored. Had Man Utd gone on to score in a similar situation I'd be pissed off if it was disallowed, likewise I'm sure Liverpool fans would be if they scored. How far back should we go? It seems very far back if our team conceded, but only a matter of seconds back if our team scored. You only need to go back a season or so, and the controversy when goals were disallowed for something that happened a fairly long time before the goal was scored.


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, if Allison had let it in it would have been offside. But, clearly it wouldn't have been better for him to do so, as he'd have had no idea if it was offside or not. That would be a horrific mentality if a keeper, would backfire frequently.

The phase of play is subjective, but a lot happened after that. After the offside, Liverpool players had the chance to get back into positions and defend, and a couple of crosses later the goal was scored. Had Man Utd gone on to score in a similar situation I'd be pissed off if it was disallowed, likewise I'm sure Liverpool fans would be if they scored. How far back should we go? It seems very far back if our team conceded, but only a matter of seconds back if our team scored. You only need to go back a season or so, and the controversy when goals were disallowed for something that happened a fairly long time before the goal was scored.
		
Click to expand...

Watched it again last night.
There is daylight between him and Liverpools back line so not so close.
I would certainly expect a Lino in the PL to spot that .
But academic now.


----------



## fundy (May 12, 2022)

seems relevant again lol

*
Specsavers* @Specsavers
4 Oct 2021


If you're wondering how often you should get your eyes tested, it's usually once every four Watford managers.


----------



## Swango1980 (May 12, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Watched it again last night.
There is daylight between him and Liverpools back line so not so close.
I would certainly expect a Lino in the PL to spot that .
But academic now.
		
Click to expand...

Daylight? 

The attached image doesn't back that up. I believe Ings is the one furthest forward, not Watkins. If it had been way offside, the commentators definitely would have talked about it a lot more when they went back and showed it.


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Daylight?

The attached image doesn't back that up. I believe Ings is the one furthest forward, not Watkins. If it had been way offside, the commentators definitely would have talked about it a lot more when they went back and showed it.
		
Click to expand...

Look at the angle of the stripes on the pitch.
I think it backs my assessment up not refutes it.
The defender is in a different segment .
From the picture angle it looks close but from the linos position that’s not even close.
I would expect a linesman in the PL to see that’s offside 10/10 times.


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## Slime (May 12, 2022)

In other news, United win the FA Youth Cup ...................................... again!


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## Swango1980 (May 12, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Look at the angle of the stripes on the pitch.
I think it backs my assessment up not refutes it.
The defender is in a different segment .
From the picture angle it looks close but from the linos position that’s not even close.
I would expect a linesman in the PL to see that’s offside 10/10 times.
		
Click to expand...

It absolutely doesn't. Watkins is in BOTH segments. The left side of his body is behind the back of the defenders body. Zero daylight between them. Are you looking at the wrong Villa player?


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## nickjdavis (May 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It absolutely doesn't. Watkins is in BOTH segments. The left side of his body is behind the back of the defenders body. Zero daylight between them. Are you looking at the wrong Villa player?
		
Click to expand...

Watkins' left foot is clearly in the paler stripe. The last Liverpool defender has both feet in the darker stripe. That is clearly offside...even though there is little, if any, daylight between the two players bodies.

Offside would be made so much simpler if it was based on where a footballers feet were rather than projecting body parts and guessing where someones shirt sleeve ended....if these rules were in place thirty years ago we'd have been debating whether Linekers ears were closer to the goal than LeTissiers nose.


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## Swango1980 (May 12, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



*Watkins' left foot is clearly in the paler stripe. The last Liverpool defender has both feet in the darker stripe. That is clearly offside...even though there is little, if any, daylight between the two players bodies.*

Offside would be made so much simpler if it was based on where a footballers feet were rather than projecting body parts and guessing where someones shirt sleeve ended....if these rules were in place thirty years ago we'd have been debating whether Linekers ears were closer to the goal than LeTissiers nose.
		
Click to expand...

I 100% agree he was offside. That wasn't the debate. I was arguing that he wasn't miles offside, and that it is easy to see how a linesman missed it. The counter argument was that he was miles offside, and the linesman shouldn't really be in a job for getting it wrong. Clupchamp said there was daylight, and the photo shows there clearly wasn't.


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## Dando (May 12, 2022)

Arsenal are getting their champions league bus ready in anticipation of next year


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I 100% agree he was offside. That wasn't the debate. I was arguing that he wasn't miles offside, and that it is easy to see how a linesman missed it. The counter argument was that he was miles offside, and the linesman shouldn't really be in a job for getting it wrong. Clupchamp said there was daylight, and the photo shows there clearly wasn't.
		
Click to expand...

I still think a PL Lino should not miss that he is clearly offside.
Without a down the line photo we will never know but I still think there is a chink of daylight between them.
The photo dosnt show us anything apart from he is clearly offside.

At least give me a bit of credit I am talking about Watkins not Ings.
I actually work on football pitches and the lower down you are the more the contrast in the lines on the pitch so a PL Lino should not miss that with such a reference point of a line between the two players.


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## Swango1980 (May 12, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I still think a PL Lino should not miss that he is clearly offside.
Without a down the line photo we will never know but I still think there is a chink of daylight between them.
The photo dosnt show us anything apart from he is clearly offside.

At least give me a bit of credit I am talking about Watkins not Ings.
*I actually work on football pitches* and the lower down you are the more the contrast in the lines on the pitch so a PL Lino should not miss that with such a reference point of a line between the two players.
		
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure a professional linesman is aware what his view is like from his level. But, it seems you don't seem to be prepared to give him any credit. 

But, it is a trivial matter. It is the sort of human error that is made week in week out. As others mentioned, it is less about the human error, but more to do with how far VAR should look back. If you think the linesman deserves to lose his job down to incompetence, that is up to you. However, I suspect there are dozens of bigger errors being made each week that will probably help him sleep comfortably.

Now, let us end this, and clear the room for discussion on Spurs v Arsenal. I predict a red card for Arsenal, and a Kane / Son combination for at least 2 goals.


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## Blue in Munich (May 12, 2022)

Erling Haaland has announced his retirement from winning the Champions League at the age of 21.


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm pretty sure a professional linesman is aware what his view is like from his level. But, it seems you don't seem to be prepared to give him any credit.

But, it is a trivial matter. It is the sort of human error that is made week in week out. As others mentioned, it is less about the human error, but more to do with how far VAR should look back. If you think the linesman deserves to lose his job down to incompetence, that is up to you. However, I suspect there are dozens of bigger errors being made each week that will probably help him sleep comfortably.

Now, let us end this, and clear the room for discussion on Spurs v Arsenal. I predict a red card for Arsenal, and a Kane / Son combination for at least 2 goals.
		
Click to expand...

Credit for what ?
He got it wrong even you admitted that.
The lose his job is just a figure of speech as I am sure you know.
can only see a draw tonight.


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Erling Haaland has announced his retirement from winning the Champions League at the age of 21.






Click to expand...


this will age well


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

I see Coutinho has signed for Villa, massive for them and gives them far more pulling power in the mkt this summer youd think


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## paddyc (May 12, 2022)

Well done Cedric you absolute knob


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Well done Cedric you absolute knob
		
Click to expand...


stealing a living  played right into their hands here and just opened ourselves up to being countered


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

son must've looked at holding and soares on his side and not been able to stop laughing


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## Bdill93 (May 12, 2022)

Coutinho announced 
20m Euros 
70% pay cut apparently 

Up the Villa 😍


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

utterly brainless, always one somewhere in the side sigh (more like 2 or 3 currently)


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## Swango1980 (May 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm pretty sure a professional linesman is aware what his view is like from his level. But, it seems you don't seem to be prepared to give him any credit. 

But, it is a trivial matter. It is the sort of human error that is made week in week out. As others mentioned, it is less about the human error, but more to do with how far VAR should look back. If you think the linesman deserves to lose his job down to incompetence, that is up to you. However, I suspect there are dozens of bigger errors being made each week that will probably help him sleep comfortably.

Now, let us end this, and clear the room for discussion on Spurs v Arsenal. I predict a red card for Arsenal, and a Kane / Son combination for at least 2 goals.
		
Click to expand...

Well, so far I have the red card bit right. See what happens in the last hour


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## paddyc (May 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			son must've looked at holding and soares on his side and not been able to stop laughing
		
Click to expand...

There's a surprise! Son spending more time on his backside than on his feet


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

paddyc said:



			There's a surprise! Son spending more time on his backside than on his feet
		
Click to expand...


can hardly blame Son this time, blame the manager and the 2 idiots on that side


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## Swango1980 (May 12, 2022)

paddyc said:



			There's a surprise! Son spending more time on his backside than on his feet
		
Click to expand...

Clearly, it's because the Arsenal defenders can't live with him and take him out


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## Blue in Munich (May 12, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Well done Cedric you absolute knob
		
Click to expand...

Holding is making Cedric look like a Mastermind contestant.


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## pokerjoke (May 12, 2022)

paddyc said:



			There's a surprise! Son spending more time on his backside than on his feet
		
Click to expand...

You didn’t call Holding a knob and that was 10 times more stupid.


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## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Well done Cedric you absolute knob
		
Click to expand...

Yes thought they were doing ok until the pen.
Holding what’s he doing .
Thought the foul leading to the corner for second goal was actually a foul on Saka ,spurs player stood on his foot.


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## paddyc (May 12, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			You didn’t call Holding a knob and that was 10 times more stupid.
		
Click to expand...

Holding you knob!


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## paddyc (May 12, 2022)

Well we need to beat Newcastle  away and Everton simple really, still in our hands.


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## Jensen (May 12, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Well we need to beat Newcastle  away and Everton simple really, still in our hands.
		
Click to expand...


Come on The Toon !!!!
That’s not gonna be an easy game


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Well we need to beat Newcastle  away and Everton simple really, still in our hands.
		
Click to expand...


yet we continue to make it hard for ourselves when it doesnt need to be 

still think 5th is a decent outcome, if only it were different sides finishing 3rd and 4th lol


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## Jensen (May 12, 2022)

Antonio, Antonio, Antonio 
COYS


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Antonio, Antonio, Antonio
COYS
		
Click to expand...


was really really easy to out think arteta , not as if spurs approach shoudlve come as a surprise  one way or the highway clueless against it sadly


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## Swango1980 (May 12, 2022)

I wonder if Arteta will solely blame the red card, and come up with a reason why it was never ever a red card to begin with? 

Spurs have absolutely done Arsenal in tonight.


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

booking for the head idiot

hope his mates made a few quid again


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## Jensen (May 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			was really really easy to out think arteta , not as if spurs approach shoudlve come as a surprise  one way or the highway clueless against it sadly
		
Click to expand...

Whilst Antonio is doing the business, I’m not a great lover of the counter set up


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## arnieboy (May 12, 2022)

Great performance from Spurs, apart from Gooners I am sure that you north west supporters secretly admire the boys from the Lane. 😉


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Whilst Antonio is doing the business, I’m not a great lover of the counter set up
		
Click to expand...


youve got to be some kind of idiot to play right into its hands though............


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## Jensen (May 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			youve got to be some kind of idiot to play right into its hands though............
		
Click to expand...


Whilst you need aggression, Holding was too fired up.  Glad he did, but going down to 10 men so early on was a game changer.


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## fundy (May 12, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Whilst you need aggression, Holding was too fired up.  Glad he did, but going down to 10 men so early on was a game changer.
		
Click to expand...


stemmed from the ridiculous high press early on against a side that wanted to play on the counter, soares and holding against Son and literally zero midfield cover because theyre so far up field. were used to the idiotic individual errors sadly, its the setting up for failure from a manager that is being falsely praised from so many areas that really annoys


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## Slime (May 12, 2022)

Arteta ................................. is he for real?
What a muppet and a very bad loser, despite all the practice!


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## Myblueheaven (May 13, 2022)

Hello All,
I dont normally do this so please take it easy on me, I am asking for help.
I am an Oldham Athletic fan of 46 years. Sadly my club is in severe trouble and at risk of going out of business or dropping further into non league due to terrible ownership.
We need new owners but our fans trust ( oasf ) is trying to raise money to buy the ground and land which the owner does not own, this would be a massive step towards brighter days for this once great club.
I will post the link to my just giving page and any donations would be massively appreciated, or even if you cn just pass this on to as many people as possible.
Thanks again.

Http://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/stu-cocker-save-oldham-athletic


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## Lord Tyrion (May 13, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Well we need to beat Newcastle  away and Everton simple really, still in our hands.
		
Click to expand...

Newcastle will be a tough game. Last home game of the season, the ground will be bouncing. 

The Everton game will depend on our next two games, Brentford and Palace at home. We could be on the beach by the time we play you, it could be an absolute cup final 🤷‍♂️


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## Neilds (May 13, 2022)

Myblueheaven said:



			Hello All,
I dont normally do this so please take it easy on me, I am asking for help.
I am an Oldham Athletic fan of 46 years. Sadly my club is in severe trouble and at risk of going out of business or dropping further into non league due to terrible ownership.
We need new owners but our fans trust ( oasf ) is trying to raise money to buy the ground and land which the owner does not own, this would be a massive step towards brighter days for this once great club.
I will post the link to my just giving page and any donations would be massively appreciated, or even if you cn just pass this on to as many people as possible.
Thanks again.

Http://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/stu-cocker-save-oldham-athletic

Click to expand...

I feel your pain, Rotherham Utd went through this about 15 years ago, lots pf points deductions, moving to Don Valley Stadium as no ground of our own and endless liquidations.  We came out of it, with the right investment and the right people at the helm.  Hope you can raise the money and get back to the League where you belong.  This is real football, not the greedy Premier League


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## Myblueheaven (May 13, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I feel your pain, Rotherham Utd went through this about 15 years ago, lots pf points deductions, moving to Don Valley Stadium as no ground of our own and endless liquidations.  We came out of it, with the right investment and the right people at the helm.  Hope you can raise the money and get back to the League where you belong.  This is real football, not the greedy Premier League
		
Click to expand...

Thanks mate, You have definately turned the corner now 👍
Had a few good away days at your old ground, Millmore watching Oldham.
Well done on your promotion and good luck in Championship.


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## Bdill93 (May 13, 2022)

Heard interesting takes post City v Wolves about KDB now having to be in the best 5 central midfielders the Premier League has seen.

So with this in mind, it got me thinking, who is in my top 5 CM's? 

1. Paul Scholes
2. Steven Gerrard
3. Frank Lampard 
4. David Silva
5. Kevin De Bruyne


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## Orikoru (May 13, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Heard interesting takes post City v Wolves about KDB now having to be in the best 5 central midfielders the Premier League has seen.

So with this in mind, it got me thinking, who is in my top 5 CM's?

1. Paul Scholes
2. Steven Gerrard
3. Frank Lampard
4. David Silva
5. Kevin De Bruyne
		
Click to expand...

Not sure I'd class Silva as a CM, since he generally played further forward. Hard not to put Vieira in there even though he's a gooner.


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## Slime (May 13, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Heard interesting takes post City v Wolves about KDB now having to be in the best 5 central midfielders the Premier League has seen.

So with this in mind, it got me thinking, who is in my top 5 CM's?

1. Paul Scholes
2. Steven Gerrard
3. Frank Lampard
4. David Silva
5. Kevin De Bruyne
		
Click to expand...

I'd have to find a slot for Roy Keane, probably at Silva's expense.
Oh, and where's Bryan Robson ................................ sorry Lamps, you're out.


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## BiMGuy (May 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'd have to find a slot for Roy Keane, probably at Silva's expense.
Oh, and where's Bryan Robson ................................ sorry Lamps, you're out.
		
Click to expand...

Patrick Vieira gets in before Scholes and Keane.


----------



## fundy (May 13, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Heard interesting takes post City v Wolves about KDB now having to be in the best 5 central midfielders the Premier League has seen.

So with this in mind, it got me thinking, who is in my top 5 CM's?

1. Paul Scholes
2. Steven Gerrard
3. Frank Lampard
4. David Silva
5. Kevin De Bruyne
		
Click to expand...


Viera
Keane
Gerrard
De Bruyne
Scholes


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## ColchesterFC (May 13, 2022)

Would have to make a case for Yaya Toure to be included. I'd want to include Viera, Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard so would drop KDB out of the top 5 on the grounds that he's a wide midfielder or No.10 rather than a CM. If pushed to include him as a CM then it would be a toss up between Lampard and Gerrard as to who misses out.


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## ColchesterFC (May 13, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would have to make a case for Yaya Toure to be included. I'd want to include Viera, Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard so would drop KDB out of the top 5 on the grounds that he's a wide midfielder or No.10 rather than a CM. If pushed to include him as a CM then it would be a toss up between Lampard and Gerrard as to who misses out.
		
Click to expand...

Also hadn't considered whether Makelele and Kante have to be considered as CMs. That would make things incredibly difficult in picking just five.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 13, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Also hadn't considered whether Makelele and Kante have to be considered as CMs. That would make things incredibly difficult in picking just five.
		
Click to expand...

I'd class them as a defensive midfielder rather than a CM. I think that explains why no one has mentioned them. Otherwise they would be on most peoples lists, imo.


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## adam6177 (May 13, 2022)

Glad to see it's not just Premier League referees that are awful.... This fella doing the Luton Huddersfield game is a disgrace. Incompetent doesn't cover it


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## pokerjoke (May 13, 2022)

Jesus Christ who is this referee in the playoff
Has bottled 2 blatant penalties


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## fundy (May 13, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Glad to see it's not just Premier League referees that are awful.... This fella doing the Luton Huddersfield game is a disgrace. Incompetent doesn't cover it
		
Click to expand...

he is a premier league ref!


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## fundy (May 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Jesus Christ who is this referee in the playoff
Has bottled 2 blatant penalties
		
Click to expand...

Robert Jones

Car crash!


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## ColchesterFC (May 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd class them as a defensive midfielder rather than a CM. I think that explains why no one has mentioned them. Otherwise they would be on most peoples lists, imo.
		
Click to expand...

Don't disagree, but I would say that Lampard, KDB and Scholes could be considered as attacking midfielders rather than a CM but many, including me, have got them in their top 5.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 13, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Don't disagree, but I would say that Lampard, KDB and Scholes could be considered as attacking midfielders rather than a CM but many, including me, have got them in their top 5.
		
Click to expand...

The rules of the game need clarifying 😄


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## Tashyboy (May 13, 2022)

My five would be.
Keane. He would give steel to
Any team.
Gerrard another box to box player.
KDB. One of the best players I have ever seen. You could spend 90 mins just watching him. When asked the other day what is his favourite position he said “ middle of the park”.
Kante. He was doing it at Leicester before Chelsea bought him. 
Those four have won the PFA player of the year award.
No5. It’s a toss between scholes And Yaya. At times
Yaya was unbelievable but god he could go missing in games like Real Madrid semi final a few years back.
One thing they all have in common is they make the game look So simple


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## Badger (May 13, 2022)

Everyone so far appears to have spelt Vieira wrong


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## Orikoru (May 13, 2022)

Badger said:



			Everyone so far appears to have spelt Vieira wrong
		
Click to expand...

I didn't, and neither did @BiMGuy ?


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## Neilds (May 14, 2022)

Maybe a better question to ask is “What is a central midfielder?” Does the fact that someone is more attacking or defensive disqualify them from the poll? Or should a central midfielder spend the whole game in the centre circle?😀


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## pauljames87 (May 14, 2022)

Personally I think it's Steven Gerrard

He had everything, he dragged that Liverpool team at times. Without him they would have struggled to get top 4 most times but he was pure class.

He made the game look easy.

That fa cup final against us. He turned it on its head and got the game done. 

Shame his ability to play anywhere accross midfield cost England when they tried to shoe horn him, scholes and lampard in.  Seeing him on left wasn't the same 

What a player


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## clubchamp98 (May 14, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Maybe a better question to ask is “What is a central midfielder?” Does the fact that someone is more attacking or defensive disqualify them from the poll? Or should a central midfielder spend the whole game in the centre circle?😀
		
Click to expand...

Prob like a Centre Half or a Centre forward.
Most players now are all over the pitch especially midfield.
Look at TAA is he a Right Back ?


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## Orikoru (May 14, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Maybe a better question to ask is “What is a central midfielder?” Does the fact that someone is more attacking or defensive disqualify them from the poll? Or should a central midfielder spend the whole game in the centre circle?😀
		
Click to expand...

It is difficult due to the different eras and formations. Back when teams played largely 4-4-2, players lik Keane, Vieira and Gerrard had to be complete midfielders, box-to-box. This type of player hardly exists anymore in the era of 4-2-3-1. Kante is very good obviously, but he doesn't carry much attacking threat because he's never had to. KDB maybe would have played CM if he was back in the 4-4-2 era, but as it is now, his defensive input is less than the likes of Gerrard put in in the past.


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## Tashyboy (May 14, 2022)

It’s an odd comparison between Kante and KDB. Of which I picked both. They have played a similar amount of games. But Kante has 665 tackles to KDB 271. Obviously there’s more to both there games than that. Both players essential to there teams success. City didn’t have Kante but Fernandinho. A similar player that allowed KDB to flourish.


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## Golfmmad (May 14, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Prob like a Centre Half or a Centre forward.
Most players now are all over the pitch especially midfield.
Look at TAA is he a Right Back ?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's called "Sexy" football, a la Ruud Hullits mantra! 😁


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## Dando (May 14, 2022)

Wise words from a man who couldn’t manage a team without an unlimited budget


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## Newtonuti (May 14, 2022)

Dando said:



			Wise words from a man who couldn’t manage a team without an unlimited budget
	View attachment 42598

Click to expand...

I'd love to see what he could do at a club like Derby with no budget.


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## hairball_89 (May 14, 2022)

Newtonuti said:



			I'd love to see what he could do at a club like Derby with no budget.
		
Click to expand...

But... But... he's the best coach ever!?


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## paddyc (May 14, 2022)

Leinster playing some superb stuff and outplaying Toulouse. Should  be a cracking 2nd 40.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 14, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Leinster playing some superb stuff and outplaying Toulouse. Should  be a cracking 2nd 40.
		
Click to expand...

Is that not rugby?

On a football theme. Just seen the last 10 minutes of the 1st half, sheff utd v forest. Not sure how forest are only 1 up. They are battering them.


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## paddyc (May 14, 2022)

ITS Rugby Football my Lord. Footie Thread does not stipulate what type of football! COME ON LEINSTER!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 14, 2022)

Nice attempt at a recovery 😆.

If only there was a dedicated rugby thread  https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/rugby-thread.107976/page-21 😉


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## paddyc (May 14, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nice attempt at a recovery 😆.

If only there was a dedicated rugby thread  https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/rugby-thread.107976/page-21 😉
		
Click to expand...

Yes my Lord couldn't be bothered  to look for that one.


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## paddyc (May 14, 2022)

Great win for Leinster, off to Marseille for the final. 
May watch that cup final game now. Is that this game called soccer. The one with the funny shaped ball!


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## Pin-seeker (May 14, 2022)

Dando said:



			Wise words from a man who couldn’t manage a team without an unlimited budget
	View attachment 42598

Click to expand...


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## Dando (May 14, 2022)

He’s had money to spend at Liverpool.

Pep has had unlimited funds at all 3 clubs he’s managed.

He’s a massively over rated manager


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## Swango1980 (May 14, 2022)

Dando said:



			He’s had money to spend at Liverpool.

Pep has had unlimited funds at all 3 clubs he’s managed.

He’s a massively over rated manager
		
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I'm sure most fans would happily have Pep as manager at their club, however over-rated he is or isn't.


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## Pin-seeker (May 14, 2022)

Dando said:



			He’s had money to spend at Liverpool.

Pep has had unlimited funds at all 3 clubs he’s managed.

He’s a massively over rated manager
		
Click to expand...

They’re all full of 💩 mate.


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## Dando (May 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm sure most fans would happily have Pep as manager at their club, however over-rated he is or isn't.
		
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only if the club had unlimited funds.


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## Swango1980 (May 14, 2022)

Dando said:



			only if the club had unlimited funds.
		
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You're right. Watford fans would be lining the streets to protest if they discovered Pep was to become their manager...

Changing subject, looks like Salah did a Pogba, didn't fancy it


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## pauljames87 (May 14, 2022)

Dando said:



			He’s had money to spend at Liverpool.

Pep has had unlimited funds at all 3 clubs he’s managed.

He’s a massively over rated manager
		
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Have always thought this. Give me klopp anyday 

But only if sir David has retired


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## GB72 (May 14, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Great win for Leinster, off to Marseille for the final.
May watch that cup final game now. Is that this game called soccer. The one with the funny shaped ball!
		
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Don't feel so bad about last week now having seen you do that to the defending champs


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## Tashyboy (May 14, 2022)

Newtonuti said:



			I'd love to see what he could do at a club like Derby with no budget.
		
Click to expand...

He did. 
Guardiola was appointed coach of Barcelona B on 21 June 2007 with Tito Vilanova as his assistant. Under his guidance, the team subsequently won their Tercera División group and qualified for the 2008 Segunda División B playoffs, which the team won, thereby achieving promotion.[48] FC Barcelona President Joan Laporta announced in May 2008 that Guardiola would be appointed manager of the senior Barcelona squad to replace Frank Rijkaard


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## Papas1982 (May 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He did.
Guardiola was appointed coach of Barcelona B on 21 June 2007 with Tito Vilanova as his assistant. Under his guidance, the team subsequently won their Tercera División group and qualified for the 2008 Segunda División B playoffs, which the team won, thereby achieving promotion.[48] FC Barcelona President Joan Laporta announced in May 2008 that Guardiola would be appointed manager of the senior Barcelona squad to replace Frank Rijkaard

Click to expand...

hahahahahahahaha

now that’s a reach!


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## Dando (May 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He did.
Guardiola was appointed coach of Barcelona B on 21 June 2007 with Tito Vilanova as his assistant. Under his guidance, the team subsequently won their Tercera División group and qualified for the 2008 Segunda División B playoffs, which the team won, thereby achieving promotion.[48] FC Barcelona President Joan Laporta announced in May 2008 that Guardiola would be appointed manager of the senior Barcelona squad to replace Frank Rijkaard

Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

That’ll be the B team that still had the  parent club buying up every gifted youngster


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## hairball_89 (May 14, 2022)

Never in doubt.


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## Tashyboy (May 14, 2022)

Dando said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

That’ll be the B team that still had the  parent club buying up every gifted youngster
		
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Dando you have the same sense of humour as me. Google Barca B of that year. They were in the 4th tier of football. one player went on to play for the first team. The question was asked could Pep manage Derby.  He has managed worse. When he took over at Barca. The fave for the Job was Mourinhio. Bobby Robsons Interpretor. Apparently that’s where the friction started between him and pep. 👍


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## pauljames87 (May 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Dando you have the same sense of humour as me. Google Barca B of that year. They were in the 4th tier of football. one player went on to play for the first team. The question was asked could Pep manage Derby.  He has managed worse. When he took over at Barca. The fave for the Job was Mourinhio. Bobby Robsons Interpretor. Apparently that’s where the friction started between him and pep. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Did you research the team tash?

Sergio busquets
 dos Santos 
Chico Flores 
Pedro 
Thaigo


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## Tashyboy (May 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Did you research the team tash?

Sergio busquets
Jonathan dos Santos
Chico Flores
Pedro
Thaigo
		
Click to expand...

Apparently Wikipedia is not my best friend 😳👍 but it is hardly buying the best young players when they came through an academy when a club had the foresight to set one up. 
One could say similar to what City have done


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## pauljames87 (May 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Apparently Wikipedia is not my best friend 😳👍 but it is hardly buying the best young players when they came through an academy when a club had the foresight to set one up. 
One could say similar to what City have done
		
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It's like Chelsea's academy tash ...Hovers up the talent around.

2 class midfielders in there and Pedro who was outstanding

Sorry tash but pep has always had the best available to him at every club 

He never goes to a derby or say a spurs and works with what he got 

Almost makes you respect poch more for what he did getting spurs to a champ final with what he had


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## Lord Tyrion (May 14, 2022)

Plenty of people have managed big clubs, big players and never got a tune out of them. Pep has created teams playing fabulous football over and over. His teams are a pleasure to watch. If people want to scoff at what he has done that's their choice. I'm just happy to watch his teams play.


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## clubchamp98 (May 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Dando you have the same sense of humour as me. Google Barca B of that year. They were in the 4th tier of football. one player went on to play for the first team. The question was asked could Pep manage Derby.  He has managed worse. When he took over at Barca. The fave for the Job was Mourinhio. Bobby Robsons Interpretor. Apparently that’s where the friction started between him and pep. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Could he do the same with Derbys B team ?


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## clubchamp98 (May 14, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Plenty of people have managed big clubs, big players and never got a tune out of them. Pep has created teams playing fabulous football over and over. His teams are a pleasure to watch. If people want to scoff at what he has done that's their choice. I'm just happy to watch his teams play.
		
Click to expand...

I agree they are very good to watch and play great football.


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## davemc1 (May 15, 2022)

He’s alright I suppose, still to win a charity shield tho 😆


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## pokerjoke (May 15, 2022)

Well done Liverpool 
A very good final
That’s the 2 little trophies won on to the big ones now.


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## 3offTheTee (May 15, 2022)

Why was there booing etc of “Abide with me”, Prince William and The National Anthem yesterday please? Is there any significance and does it happen every year?


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## Fade and Die (May 15, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Why was there booing etc of “Abide with me”, Prince William and The National Anthem yesterday please? Is there any significance and *does it happen every year?*

Click to expand...

No only when Liverpool are in the final 🤷‍♂️ 

It’s the pathetic “Scouse not English” mentality (which I wish was true) of the fans.


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## 3offTheTee (May 15, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			No only when Liverpool are in the final 🤷‍♂️

It’s the pathetic “Scouse not English” mentality (which I wish was true) of the fans.
		
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Thanks F and D but is there a reason why please?


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## Fade and Die (May 15, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Thanks F and D but is there a reason why please?
		
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I’m afraid I’m not qualified to say, maybe some of the match going Scousers can explain how booing and jeering a Hymn, the National Anthem and the future King is acceptable?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 15, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I’m afraid I’m not qualified to say, maybe some of the match going Scousers can explain how booing and jeering a Hymn, the National Anthem and the future King is acceptable?
		
Click to expand...

I heard that, though no idea if it was coming from any one set of supporters, and I was rather confused as to why on earth it was happening.


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## chrisd (May 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Plenty of people have managed big clubs, big players and never got a tune out of them. Pep has created teams playing fabulous football over and over. His teams are a pleasure to watch. If people want to scoff at what he has done that's their choice. I'm just happy to watch his teams play.
		
Click to expand...

I read a while back that a former England rugby coach was invited to a Pep training session at Man City and was in awe of how good a coach Pep was


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## pauljames87 (May 15, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I read a while back that a former England rugby coach was invited to a Pep training session at Man City and was in awe of how good a coach Pep was
		
Click to expand...

A great coach he may be but would be interesting to see him do it at a midtabled club and see how good he actually is when not everyone is class in their roles


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## Pin-seeker (May 15, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			No only when Liverpool are in the final 🤷‍♂️

It’s the pathetic “*Scouse not English” mentality* (which I wish was true) of the fans.
		
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Proper cringe when they come out with this 😬


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## Tashyboy (May 15, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I read a while back that a former England rugby coach was invited to a Pep training session at Man City and was in awe of how good a coach Pep was
		
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I read a piece a couple of weeks back re who Neil Warnock rated as a coach. He rated Pep above Sir Alex. However his No1 coach. A certain Mr Wenger. This piece is worth a read As also Mr Klopp gets a mention.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../pep-guardiola-sir-alex-ferguson-23720172.amp
Re Liverpool fans not happy with the national Anthem etc I don’t have a clue. But I know why City fans do not hold UEFA in high esteem 😳👍


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## Tashyboy (May 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree they are very good to watch and play great football.
		
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Had a good natter in a pub full of happy drunken scousers. Suffice to say we both agreed both City and Liverpool play attractive football. We both agreed how far Utd have fallen as well. One thing we discussed was how Chelsea set off the season on fire yet fizzled out. But got to two finals. Was the Roman situation that bad for the club/ team.


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## Papas1982 (May 15, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I’m afraid I’m not qualified to say, maybe some of the match going Scousers can explain how booing and jeering a Hymn, the National Anthem and the future King is acceptable?
		
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If you aren't qualified to say. 

Why not look into it and then comment....


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## IanM (May 15, 2022)

Not even my sister thought that was a penalty....and she's sat in the ground with a season ticket in her pocket!


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## paddyc (May 15, 2022)

Shocking decision.That ref is a Friend of Spurs


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## Slime (May 15, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			No only when Liverpool are in the final 🤷‍♂️

It’s the pathetic “Scouse not English” mentality (which I wish was true) of the fans.
		
Click to expand...

Someone I know is adamant that he's not from the UK but he's from the PRM .......................... The Peoples' Republic of Merseyside!
My mind truly boggles.


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## IanM (May 15, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Shocking decision.That ref is a Friend of Spurs
		
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That's the rule apparently.   Seems bonkers to me.


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## Fade and Die (May 15, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			If you aren't qualified to say.

Why not look into it and then comment....
		
Click to expand...

I said I wasn’t qualified to comment not that I didn’t know the reason….. Politics are not the only subject you can’t discuss on this forum. 🤫


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## pauljames87 (May 15, 2022)

BOWEN, what a cracking player


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## adam6177 (May 15, 2022)

Despite the ref, hammer doing extremely well. Big 45 minutes for both sides coming up.


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## pauljames87 (May 15, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Despite the ref, hammer doing extremely well. Big 45 minutes for both sides coming up.
		
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I just hope we don't bring noble on just for sentiment. There is hours after the game to honour him, the result is what matters. We could still get Europa.


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## pendodave (May 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I just hope we don't bring noble on just for sentiment. There is hours after the game to honour him, the result is what matters. We could still get Europa.
		
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I just hope that if we lose 5-2 there's enough people there to give him a decent send off...
In all seriousness, he's been a fabulous player for us, and we've been lucky to have him for so long.


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## pauljames87 (May 15, 2022)

pendodave said:



			I just hope that if we lose 5-2 there's enough people there to give him a decent send off...
In all seriousness, he's been a fabulous player for us, and we've been lucky to have him for so long.
		
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It's not luck, nobody ever wanted to buy him above our level so he has stayed. I'm sure if a city or Liverpool had been interested (if he was actually good enough for that next level) he would have left


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## pauljames87 (May 15, 2022)

Well it's a game of errors 

City look awful at the back 

And we just give them an equaliser lol


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## pauljames87 (May 15, 2022)

We are trying our best to give city the title but fab didn't get the memo 

Great pen save


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## pauljames87 (May 15, 2022)

Tough game against 12 men today 

But great draw 

Threw away the lead but managed to hold on

Brighton next week. Need to win that .. Europa could still happen


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## Slime (May 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



*Tough game against 12 men today*

Click to expand...


That *reason/excuse just never gets boring.
* Delete as applicable.


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## pauljames87 (May 15, 2022)

Slime said:




That *reason/excuse just never gets boring.
* Delete as applicable.
		
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Not the first to point it out on the thread even neurals..

Bought every Dive by grealish and Antonio got nothing from him even tho hacked to bits.


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## Neilds (May 15, 2022)

Cracking game in the Women’s FA Cup Final. Two teams really going for it and a couple of stunning goals. Great advert for the game and will be really hard on whoever loses as neither team deserve to lose.


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## Fade and Die (May 15, 2022)

Well that was an unexpected point! great entertainment, proud of the team today. 

Got to say when all the talent in the world plus the best manager in the world isn’t enough there is always Anthony Taylor to make sure you get something! 😡


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## pauljames87 (May 15, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Well that was an unexpected point! great entertainment, proud of the team today. 

Got to say when all the talent in the world plus the best manager in the world isn’t enough there is always Anthony Taylor to make sure you get something! 😡
		
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Couldn't believe some of the fouls not given against Antonio, it was remarkable

But grealish would get blown down by the wind and freekick it just was laughable


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## hairball_89 (May 15, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Well that was an unexpected point! great entertainment, proud of the team today.

Got to say when all the talent in the world plus the best manager in the world isn’t enough there is always Anthony Taylor to make sure you get something! 😡
		
Click to expand...

That wouldn't be "Anthony Taylor from Whythenshaw, Manchester" would it?!


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## Fade and Die (May 15, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			That wouldn't be "Anthony Taylor from Whythenshaw, Manchester" would it?!
		
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I did not know that but honestly I am not surprised.


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## adam6177 (May 15, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			That wouldn't be "Anthony Taylor from Whythenshaw, Manchester" would it?!
		
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I didn't think that was allowed/they didn't choose refs that were from local to teams.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 15, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I didn't think that was allowed/they didn't choose refs that were from local to teams.
		
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They have to identify who they support. Apparently he supports Altrincham.

https://www.goal.com/en/news/which-...r-league-referees-support/bltc5a6db7933177b98


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## Lord Tyrion (May 15, 2022)

Well, that went well 🙄


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## Billysboots (May 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Well, that went well 🙄
		
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I wouldn’t panic. If Leeds get anything at Brentford I’d be staggered.


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## RichA (May 15, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Cracking game in the Women’s FA Cup Final. Two teams really going for it and a couple of stunning goals. Great advert for the game and will be really hard on whoever loses as neither team deserve to lose.
		
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Cracking game. Must've been better than yesterday's final because I managed to stay awake.


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## Jimaroid (May 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Well, that went well 🙄
		
Click to expand...

It really did. 

What can you say. Early red card changed the game, stupid mistake and indisputable.


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## fundy (May 15, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I wouldn’t panic. If Leeds get anything at Brentford I’d be staggered.
		
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betting will have it as a pick em game, as they did the leeds brighton game today


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## Lord Tyrion (May 15, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			It really did.

What can you say. Early red card changed the game, stupid mistake and indisputable.
		
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I thought we went into defensive mode too quickly when we went to 10. It invited them on.

Hopefully the last time Rondon puts on a shirt. I don't wish him ill, he just hasn't offered anything this year and isn't up to it. Surely we had someone from the u23's who could have done a better job.


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## Jimaroid (May 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought we went into defensive mode too quickly when we went to 10. It invited them on.

Hopefully the last time Rondon puts on a shirt. I don't wish him ill, he just hasn't offered anything this year and isn't up to it. Surely we had someone from the u23's who could have done a better job.
		
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Yep and we came out after half time and just sat even further back. They should have dealt with Eriksson better but there wasn’t anyone to press him. Brentford played well. 

Agree on Rondon, even though I actually think he’s been a bit better for us in his last few appearances. Always liked his attitude and desire but his legs just can’t keep up with his head. 

I found it a frustrating match for many reasons other than the result. My pet peeve of shirtpulling was significant today (both teams at it) and I wish the various game custodians would clamp down on it.


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## Bdill93 (May 16, 2022)

Just a quick post to any Liverpool fans -

Apologies in advance, please do not go thinking Stevie's Villa will help you win the title. We wont.

Nobody wants to see the 100m man win it, least of all us, but our defence wont hold out 

I do hope I'm wrong though!


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## Tashyboy (May 16, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Thanks F and D but is there a reason why please?
		
Click to expand...

Don’t know if that will answer your question. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61467289


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## pauljames87 (May 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t know if that will answer your question. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61467289

Click to expand...

I'd suggest this Mr gibbons from the Liverpool podcast has a quick think why it's become front page news after the FA cup final .. even tho "it happened at the League cup final" (2 wrongs don't make a right) but which one is free to air for the world to see??? 

League cup final whilst sold out might not have been as a draw as the fa cup to hardcore fans 

Muppet


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## Tashyboy (May 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd suggest this Mr gibbons from the Liverpool podcast has a quick think why it's become front page news after the FA cup final .. even tho "it happened at the League cup final" (2 wrongs don't make a right) but which one is free to air for the world to see???

League cup final whilst sold out might not have been as a draw as the fa cup to hardcore fans

Muppet
		
Click to expand...

I thought Mr klopps comments were very good. What I thought odd was the comment this happened in 2012 😳


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## Pin-seeker (May 16, 2022)

So Rooney believes that City winning the league in 2012 with the Aguerooo moment was a bit dodgy.
He’s basically saying QPR threw the game 😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (May 16, 2022)

Strong first half from Newcastle. Arsenal not really showing so far. Ramsdale is having a bit of a 'Jordan' 😳

The game just needs a goal now.


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## fundy (May 16, 2022)

not got the players for plan a, not got a plan b 

managers stubborness and the ridiculous january window been a massive handicap 

an overly stretched defense, white doesnt look close to being fit, 2 statues in centre mid just getting by-passed. totally reliant on saka and oodegaard to try and bail us out yet again


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## fundy (May 16, 2022)

guess we better starting making some lasagna for the weekend................


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## Jensen (May 16, 2022)

Bruno 👍👍👍👍
And that’s not Frank either.
Get in!!!!


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## Jensen (May 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			guess we better starting making some lasagna for the weekend................
		
Click to expand...

😉 COYS 👍


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## paddyc (May 16, 2022)

Hopeless Arsenal.2nd best again  all night. Don't  deserve  CL football, not good enough.No fight, desire or leaders.


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## Jensen (May 16, 2022)

Bloody hell, I didn’t realise Pepe was Arsenals club record signing !!
Signed for £72 million


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## Lord Tyrion (May 16, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Bloody hell, I didn’t realise Pepe was Arsenals club record signing !!
Signed for £72 million
		
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Value now?


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## arnieboy (May 16, 2022)

Jensen said:



			😉 COYS 👍
		
Click to expand...

Delia will make sure that the boys are properly fed.


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## fundy (May 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Value now?
		
Click to expand...


theyre hoping to get 25m for him in the summer. theyre delusional, missing a decimal place lol

not good enough for the prem but another one who Arteta has utterly destroyed the confidence of. ESR next............


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## Golfmmad (May 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			not got the players for plan a, not got a plan b 

managers stubborness and the ridiculous january window been a massive handicap

an overly stretched defense, white doesnt look close to being fit, 2 statues in centre mid just getting by-passed. totally reliant on saka and oodegaard to try and bail us out yet again
		
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That's a bit unfair on Ben White, I thought he was Arsenal's best defender. 
Newcastle were brilliant all game and well deserved the win.


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## fundy (May 16, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			That's a bit unfair on Ben White, I thought he was Arsenal's best defender.
Newcastle were brilliant all game and well deserved the win.
		
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best of a horrendous bunch, agreed. still not close to full fitness either


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## Orikoru (May 16, 2022)

Haven't watched that much football lately, but I thoroughly enjoyed that game.


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## Golfmmad (May 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Haven't watched that much football lately, but I thoroughly enjoyed that game. 

Click to expand...

Well of course you did you Spursy man! 😁


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## Rlburnside (May 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Haven't watched that much football lately, but I thoroughly enjoyed that game. 

Click to expand...

I was down and watched the Arsenal game first time at the new stadium what a place atmosphere was incredible. 
In a pub 5 minutes from ground which had a beer garden with 50-60 Spurs fans in nothings changed  from what I experienced years ago great laugh. 

The Arabs done us a big favour  tonight. 
Didn’t see the game but apparently Arsenal were very poor

Passed through Edingburgh airport and there was a lot of Rangers fans on their way to final


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## fundy (May 17, 2022)

Gary Neville still unable to practise what he preaches I see having sacked another Salford manager


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## Swango1980 (May 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			Gary Neville still unable to practise what he preaches I see having sacked another Salford manager
		
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There is a subtle difference to discussing whether managers should be sacked at clubs you do not run, and actually sacking managers at the club you own.


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## adam6177 (May 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			Gary Neville still unable to practise what he preaches I see having sacked another Salford manager
		
Click to expand...

I've said it about him many times.... 50% of the time he's spot on with what he says/thinks and the other 50% of the time he's a deluded Muppet.

IMO.


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## adam6177 (May 17, 2022)

Keeping city honest .... Most we could hope for.

I wonder what odds I'd get for Liverpool to win the league and arsenal to get 4th after spurs implode against Norwich.

Couldn't happen..... Could it.


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## Baldy Bouncer (May 17, 2022)

All to play for now on Sunday


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## Jimaroid (May 17, 2022)




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## Canary_Yellow (May 17, 2022)

The playoffs always deliver brilliant entertainment 👍👍👍


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## RichA (May 17, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			The playoffs always deliver brilliant entertainment 👍👍👍
		
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It wasn't very relaxing though.


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## Yorkhacker (May 18, 2022)

Apologies if I've missed something, but I notice Stu_C isn't posting at the moment. This is eerily like during the Euros last year. If Liverpool do take the title I'm expecting a similarly expletive post about 5 minutes after the final whistle!


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## Swango1980 (May 18, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Apologies if I've missed something, but I notice Stu_C isn't posting at the moment. This is eerily like during the Euros last year. If Liverpool do take the title I'm expecting a similarly expletive post about 5 minutes after the final whistle!
		
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I did think the forum was extremely quiet over last few weeks, with an absence of Liverpool fans. They are probably drafting all their future social media posts, based on all possible outcomes on what trophies Liverpool win or do not win.


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## Swango1980 (May 18, 2022)

Anyone see Billy Sharp get headbutted during last night's pitch invasion?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 18, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Keeping city honest .... Most we could hope for.

I wonder what odds I'd get for Liverpool to win the league and arsenal to get 4th after spurs implode against Norwich.

Couldn't happen..... Could it.
		
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Worth a cheeky £1 . Pressure adds up. No pressure at all on Norwich or Villa.


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## fundy (May 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Worth a cheeky £1 . Pressure adds up. No pressure at all on Norwich or Villa.
		
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be gutted when Arsenal fail to beat Everton


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## Lord Tyrion (May 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			be gutted when Arsenal fail to beat Everton 

Click to expand...

Now that would be funny..........Hopefully I wont care either way after Thursday. Then again.............


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## fundy (May 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Now that would be funny..........Hopefully I wont care either way after Thursday. Then again.............
		
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not sure funny would be the word i would be using......................


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## Lord Tyrion (May 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			not sure funny would be the word i would be using......................
		
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Neither of us might be laughing on Sunday. It has the potential to be a traumatic day all round.


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## fundy (May 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Neither of us might be laughing on Sunday. It has the potential to be a traumatic day all round.
		
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resigned to finishing 5th here


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## Lord Tyrion (May 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			resigned to finishing 5th here
		
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If you do, most likely as you say, would you have a go at the Europa League next year or do you send the U'23's out and leave your main players to have another go at finishing top 4? Thursday / Sunday is hard work and your depth is not really there. Going for both could mean ultimate failure whereas concentrating on the league, whilst others flog themselves gives you a better chance. It is not as though you are new to European football so it is not like Wolves, West Ham or Leicester where the sacrifice was worth the experience.


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## fundy (May 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you do, most likely as you say, would you have a go at the Europa League next year or do you send the U'23's out and leave your main players to have another go at finishing top 4? Thursday / Sunday is hard work and your depth is not really there. Going for both could mean ultimate failure whereas concentrating on the league, whilst others flog themselves gives you a better chance. It is not as though you are new to European football so it is not like Wolves, West Ham or Leicester where the sacrifice was worth the experience.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully were still mid rebuild squad wise, some deadwood still to be removed (yes Xhaka, Cedric im still looking at you!!!) and a number of new bodies to be added. Its why earlier in the year I said I thought Europa rather than CL would be better for us long term, just annoying that its spurs finishing above us 

Theres a lot of good youngsters that have come through the Hale End academy, albeit Arteta is very reluctant to throw any in at the deep end it seems despite the likes of Saka, Martinelli and ESR keeping him his job when he was left with no choice but to use them. Add in the likes of Tavares, Sambi Lokonga who are young and raw and not ready for regular first team football, potentially Balogun too if he doesnt go back on loan

In the Europa hopefully he will use a blend of first team players and bring some of these youngsters through more. The big issue is we just dont have any experienced players worth having to play alongside them!!

Of the current squad Id be keeping Ramsdale, Tomiyasu, Tierney, Gabriel, White, Partey, Smith Rowe, Oodegaard, Saka, Martinelli. Hopefully Saliba will come back into the squad, maybe Reiss Nelson too. Youngsters wise would have Balogun, Tavares, Sambi Lokonga, Patino, Azeez etc.

Lacazette and Nketiah both likely to move on as out of contract, Elneny too but rumours hes being offered a new one (having barely played). Leno rumoured to want to leave to get regular football back in Germany

Wouldnt expect any of Bellerin, Torreira, Guendoozi, Mari, Mavropanos to return, not sure about Maitlin Niles

Hopefully a busy recruitment summer!


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## Liverbirdie (May 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I did think the forum was extremely quiet over last few weeks, with an absence of Liverpool fans. They are probably drafting all their future social media posts, based on all possible outcomes on what trophies Liverpool win or do not win.
		
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You get some fans who you only hear when things are going well and disappear when things get tough. We like to to be a bit different.


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## fundy (May 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			You get some fans who you only hear when things are going well and disappear when things get tough. We like to to be a bit different. 

Click to expand...


thought you were all having the month off in solidarity with Phil lol


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## Yorkhacker (May 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			You get some fans who you only hear when things are going well and disappear when things get tough. We like to to be a bit different. 

Click to expand...

Stu_C hasn't posted since the 1-1 draw with Spurs that looked like it had handed the title to City. Read into that what you will😊. Maybe the tensions getting too much for him.


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## Liverbirdie (May 18, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Stu_C hasn't posted since the 1-1 draw with Spurs that looked like it had handed the title to City. Read into that what you will😊. Maybe the tensions getting too much for him.
		
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I seen him at Wembley on Saturday, he's fine.


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## Papas1982 (May 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I did think the forum was extremely quiet over last few weeks, with an absence of Liverpool fans. They are probably drafting all their future social media posts, based on all possible outcomes on what trophies Liverpool win or do not win.
		
Click to expand...

LiverpoolPhil taking A leave of absence for charity and @Stuart_C is a match goer. pretty sure he’s over working manically and quoting grannies overpriced bathroom refits as we speak as he’s had to fork out for 3 finals this year.


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## ColchesterFC (May 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			You get some fans who you only hear when things are going well and disappear when things get tough. We like to to be a bit different. 

Click to expand...

What's it like to be a fan of a club where things go well?

Asking for a friend.🙂


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Neither of us might be laughing on Sunday. It has the potential to be a traumatic day all round.
		
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Well especially here in Liverpool.
We win the PL and Everton go down would be quite a day.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well especially here in Liverpool.
We win the PL and Everton go down would be quite a day.
		
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## Yorkhacker (May 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well especially here in Liverpool.
We win the PL and Everton go down would be quite a day.
		
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That's just mean!


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## Bazzatron (May 18, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Just a quick post to any Liverpool fans -

Apologies in advance, please do not go thinking Stevie's Villa will help you win the title. We wont.

Nobody wants to see the 100m man win it, least of all us, but our defence wont hold out 

I do hope I'm wrong though!
		
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On a similar note we'll put up absolutely zero resistance at Anfield.


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			That's just mean!
		
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Sick of hearing they have never been relegated and are founder members.

On another matter good luck to Rangers tonight.!


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## Slime (May 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			What's it like to be a fan of a club where things go well?

Asking for a friend.🙂
		
Click to expand...

I don't know, my memory doesn't go back that far!


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## Slime (May 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Neither of us might be laughing on *Sunday.* *It has the potential to be a traumatic day all round.*

Click to expand...

Not for me.
I'll be pegging it up at Montecastillo, just outside of Jerez!


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## Hobbit (May 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not for me.
I'll be pegging it up at Montecastillo, just outside of Jerez!  

Click to expand...

Bring plenty of water. Shade temps are predicted to hit high 30’s and possibly hit 40*. Out in the sun you will fry!


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## ColchesterFC (May 18, 2022)

I've just read (on Twitter and haven't confirmed it yet) that if Man City/Jack Grealish win the title Aston Villa are due a £15 million bonus as part of the transfer deal. With Southampton not able to catch them and Villa safe in 14th place that's a pretty big incentive not to put too much effort in at the weekend. An extra £15 million in the transfer kitty this summer could be a good reason to field a weakened team.


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## Fade and Die (May 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I seen him at Wembley on Saturday, he's fine. 

Click to expand...

Booing the National Anthem? 😬


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## Papas1982 (May 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've just read (on Twitter and haven't confirmed it yet) that if Man City/Jack Grealish win the title Aston Villa are due a £15 million bonus as part of the transfer deal. With Southampton not able to catch them and Villa safe in 14th place that's a pretty big incentive not to put too much effort in at the weekend. An extra £15 million in the transfer kitty this summer could be a good reason to field a weakened team.
		
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Pretty sure a certain Stevie Geeeeeeeeeee won't be swayed by that.


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## BrianM (May 18, 2022)

Massive game in Sevilla tonight, with Frankfurt’s away record they are rightly favourites but Rangers have done exceptionally well to get here, let’s hope they can finish the job 😀


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## Pin-seeker (May 18, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			Pretty sure a certain Stevie Geeeeeeeeeee won't be swayed by that.
		
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He’ll probably Slip up AGAIN 😂

Couldn’t resist 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverbirdie (May 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			What's it like to be a fan of a club where things go well?

Asking for a friend.🙂
		
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They are going well at the moment, but things can swiftly change, plus like any football fan its about expectations, as well.

I remember in the late 80's me and a mate saying wouldn't it be mad if we had to go down just for a season (say a financial reason or something), as like me he was a regular away match goer at the time and we fancied some new grounds, and also we had become a bit "inured" to success, as it was the team of Barnes, Beardsley etc who nearly did 3 doubles.

I realise that 95% of football fans will think "how can you feel like that", but I honestly think a lot of Man u fans in the past and possibly city fans in the future may feel the same. When you're so used to winning the league you love it and you feel it's yours, but you can become more "hate to lose it rather than love to win it" as I seen Tuchel mention the other day. Sustained success feels like that. If City win another 3-4 leagues on the bounce, it will feel very samey.

Luckily in our fallow years, we still won European, Uefa and domestic cups, but that 30 years in between was a hard time, obviously due to our past.

Sunderland have won 6 league championships, but as the last was pre-WWII, I dont think many Sunderland fans have an expectation anywhere approaching winning this now. Newcastle fans would be the same up to 6 months ago, but are now dreaming of CL wins in the next decade, I'm sure, due to what we historically know of what unfettered spending can get you (Chelsea, City).

Colchester United even getting to the premier league for one season would be an amazing feeling, Newcastle its first trophy in 50-odd years, Boreham wood in league 1, Everton breaking their duck again (a club that is one of England's most successful), and ask man u fans from the 80's what it was like to go 17 years with only one major trophy.   

Basically, it's all relative.


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## Liverbirdie (May 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sick of hearing they have never been relegated and are founder members.

On another matter good luck to Rangers tonight.!
		
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Everton went down in the 50's.


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## Liverbirdie (May 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've just read (on Twitter and haven't confirmed it yet) that if Man City/Jack Grealish win the title Aston Villa are due a £15 million bonus as part of the transfer deal. With Southampton not able to catch them and Villa safe in 14th place that's a pretty big incentive not to put too much effort in at the weekend. An extra £15 million in the transfer kitty this summer could be a good reason to field a weakened team.
		
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That shouldn't be allowed between domestic clubs IMO, say it was a 40 million bonus?

Ok in international transfers, but not domestic.


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## Liverbirdie (May 18, 2022)

Come on the Rangers.

I dont mind Scottish teams winning European trophies, just not the FELLOW English clubs.


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## pauljames87 (May 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Come on the Rangers.

I dont mind Scottish teams winning European trophies, just not the FELLOW English clubs. 

Click to expand...

Thought you weren't part of England?.. got your own anthem and all that.


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2022)

Be


Liverbirdie said:



			Everton went down in the 50's.
		
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fore my time.
I have heard commentary saying “Never been out of the top flight”
So they are wrong.
Thanks Peter.


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## Slime (May 18, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Come on the Rangers.
I dont mind Scottish teams winning European trophies, just not the FELLOW English clubs. 

Click to expand...




pauljames87 said:



*Thought you weren't part of England?*.. got your own anthem and all that.
		
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Which is probably why he's happy for Rangers to win.


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## pauljames87 (May 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			Which is probably why he's happy for Rangers to win.
		
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It was the "fellow" bit that seemed a bit odd considering.


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## Slime (May 18, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			It was the "fellow" bit that seemed a bit odd considering.
		
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Ah, now I see where you're coming from.


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## Liverbirdie (May 18, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Thought you weren't part of England?.. got your own anthem and all that.
		
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Whoosh......


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## Liverbirdie (May 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Be

fore my time.
I have heard commentary saying “Never been out of the top flight”
So they are wrong.
Thanks Peter.
		
Click to expand...

They went up as we went down for 8 years.


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## greenone (May 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Before my time.
I have heard commentary saying “Never been out of the top flight”
So they are wrong.
Thanks Peter.
		
Click to expand...

Football started in 1992 apparently. 🤷


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## pauljames87 (May 18, 2022)

greenone said:



			Football started in 1992 apparently. 🤷
		
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Got interesting in 1992.. got boring 19-20.. great since then 😂


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## Papas1982 (May 18, 2022)

It's ok. You're in a safe place. 

Show me where the Scouser touched you @pauljames87 .....


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## pauljames87 (May 18, 2022)

Papas1982 said:



			It's ok. You're in a safe place. 

Show me where the Scouser touched you @pauljames87 .....
		
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The ears .. the accent ..


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## BiMGuy (May 18, 2022)

Come on Frankfurt


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2022)

Kostic looks a player.
Bassey also.

Ref was good but couple of strange ones but consistent.


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## ColchesterFC (May 18, 2022)

Probably five of the best penalties you could wish to see from Frankfurt. The keeper had almost no chance of saving any of them.


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## clubchamp98 (May 18, 2022)

Brought on to specifically take a pen and it was a shocker.
Unlucky Rangers .


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## BrianM (May 18, 2022)

Bassey Class, won’t be in Scotland long 😂
Rangers played well but just couldn’t finish the job ☹️


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## Bazzatron (May 19, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Bassey Class, won’t be in Scotland long 😂
Rangers played well but just couldn’t finish the job ☹️
		
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It'll take a big spender to buy him though.


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2022)

Ahh Burnley at home

Villa's last home game of the season tonight, under the lights, nothing better.

Im thinking a solid 3-1 for the Villa. Clean sheets just seem beyond us, Sunday is going to be interesting to say the least!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Ahh Burnley at home

Villa's last home game of the season tonight, under the lights, nothing better.

Im thinking a solid 3-1 for the Villa. Clean sheets just seem beyond us, Sunday is going to be interesting to say the least!
		
Click to expand...

Up the Villa


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Up the Villa 

Click to expand...

Im confident we will get the job done tonight! 

Just hope we can help out the red side on Liverpool on Sunday too - but very unlikely!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Im confident we will get the job done tonight!

Just hope we can help out the red side on Liverpool on Sunday too - but very unlikely!
		
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One step at a time. No looking at Sunday until you have beaten Burnley. Same as the other week please, pretty please


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One step at a time. No looking at Sunday until you have beaten Burnley. Same as the other week please, pretty please
		
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We have lost Konsa to injury actually.. and we played 3 back against these last time out... So we might lose


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Up the Villa 

Click to expand...

Villa don't need the win so just don't play McGinn - Scotland needs him


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## BiMGuy (May 19, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Ahh Burnley at home

Villa's last home game of the season tonight, under the lights, nothing better.

Im thinking a solid 3-1 for the Villa. Clean sheets just seem beyond us, Sunday is going to be interesting to say the least!
		
Click to expand...

Always loved the Villa and their supporters. Great club, great manager and great fans. Looking forward to them winning tonight 🤞


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Villa don't need the win so just don't play McGinn - Scotland needs him
		
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He will be fine! That man is made of pure steel!


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Always loved the Villa and their supporters. Great club, great manager and great fans. Looking forward to them winning tonight 🤞
		
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Hahahaha we will try!


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## greenone (May 19, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Hahahaha we will try!
		
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Just remember if villa lose they will be bitter.


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2022)

greenone said:



			Just remember if villa lose they will be bitter. 

Click to expand...

Thats football!


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## BiMGuy (May 19, 2022)

greenone said:



			Just remember if villa lose they will be bitter. 

Click to expand...

💯 %


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## Orikoru (May 19, 2022)

Weirdly, Man City have adopted an old West Ham kit away kit for their new shirts next season.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527182280749420544


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Weirdly, Man City have adopted an old West Ham kit away kit for their new shirts next season.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527182280749420544

Click to expand...

Someone needs to remind foden he isn't stan from Eminem video back in the day.


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## Bdill93 (May 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Weirdly, Man City have adopted an old West Ham kit away kit for their new shirts next season.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527182280749420544

Click to expand...

I quite like it to be fair!

They seem to really be pushing the retro vibes!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Weirdly, Man City have adopted an old West Ham kit away kit for their new shirts next season.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527182280749420544

Click to expand...

It's a combination of City colours from the past. The Blue, obvious, but that deep red has often been used in stripe form, red & black, for their away kit. @Tashyboy will be feeling quite nostalgic I suspect seeing the red edging and round neck. Very 70's.

It's a bit odd but I do love new kit time. Whichever team, it is always mildly exciting to see


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## Orikoru (May 19, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I quite like it to be fair!

They seem to really be pushing the retro vibes!
		
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I wonder if the beige chinos are part of the official kit as well. That really would be a bold move.


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## clubchamp98 (May 19, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Im confident we will get the job done tonight!

Just hope we can help out the red side on Liverpool on Sunday too - but very unlikely!
		
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With your forward line against City who have no centre backs.
You should have a good go at them.
Most teams are scared of them but the way to beat them is be offensive imo.
You might get a drubbing but that could happen if you sit back.


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## Tashyboy (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a combination of City colours from the past. The Blue, obvious, but that deep red has often been used in stripe form, red & black, for their away kit. @Tashyboy will be feeling quite nostalgic I suspect seeing the red edging and round neck. Very 70's.

It's a bit odd but I do love new kit time. Whichever team, it is always mildly exciting to see 

Click to expand...

Most of the older fans I know love it, a return to retro kits. Some of the recent City kits have been pure rammel. The fans that don’t seem to like it are the recent younger “ glory” fans. Oddly enough most negative comments Facebook etc, have come from younger foreign fans. My lad said he is having the long sleeve one.


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## clubchamp98 (May 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Most of the older fans I know love it, a return to retro kits. Some of the recent City kits have been pure rammel. The fans that don’t seem to like it are the recent younger “ glory” fans. Oddly enough most negative comments Facebook etc, have come from younger foreign fans. My lad said he is having the long sleeve one.
		
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Do they do a waterproof one Tash.
You need them in Manchester


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## adam6177 (May 19, 2022)

Naughty naughty from Ashley Barnes on Tyrone Mings, he's absolutely done him there.  But again VAR seems only useful for 1" off sides. What a joke.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Naughty naughty from Ashley Barnes on Tyrone Mings, he's absolutely done him there.  But again VAR seems only useful for 1" off sides. What a joke.
		
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There could not have been any argument had he gone. I thought they were supposed to be strong on those? Very lucky to stay on.


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## adam6177 (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There could not have been any argument had he gone. I thought they were supposed to be strong on those? Very lucky to stay on.
		
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What I don't get is that it wasn't even like they were both jumping/competing for the ball. He's literally just run into him and done him with the elbow... Absolute thug.


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## clubchamp98 (May 19, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			What I don't get is that it wasn't even like they were both jumping/competing for the ball. He's literally just run into him and done him with the elbow... Absolute thug.
		
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Typical.
Barney scores when he should be off. Imo.
He’s a pub team CF.
Good pen though.
Villa need to tell Buendea to stay out of their own area.


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## Tashyboy (May 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do they do a waterproof one Tash.
You need them in Manchester 

Click to expand...

Nah the beany hat keeps the rain off. 😁


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## IanM (May 19, 2022)

The Everton fans might miss the updates if they smashed up their TVs earlier!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2022)

If Burnley go down then surely Pope will be snapped up by a very good club. Another set of quality saves tonight.


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If Burnley go down then surely Pope will be snapped up by a very good club. Another set of quality saves tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Spurs need a new keeper


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## fundy (May 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Spurs need a new keeper
		
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hes too good for them


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## fundy (May 19, 2022)

See you next year Evertonians


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			hes too good for them
		
Click to expand...

He's too good for Burnley aswell 

Our fans want him. Not a chance givee areala any day. Class keeper and much cheaper


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## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Spurs need a new keeper
		
Click to expand...

He would be a great buy for them.

On other news,  yyyyyyeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssss😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁.

Too bloomin stressful but we have survived. Frank must have done a mighty half time team talk 😉


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## Jimaroid (May 19, 2022)

I’m out boozing for work. I’ve only seen the result. And what a result! UTFT!


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He would be a great buy for them.

On other news,  yyyyyyeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssss😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁.

Too bloomin stressful but we have survived. Frank must have done a mighty half time team talk 😉
		
Click to expand...

That's your punishment another year of Frank


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## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			That's your punishment another year of Frank
		
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Just wait for his summer rebuild 😉. Next season will be the year of Frank 😆

Ooo, I can start reading transfer gossip again now. Yay.


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## clubchamp98 (May 19, 2022)

So you can elbow someone in the face and nothing.
But get the ball in a tackle and catch him on the follow through and your off.

Thought both keepers were brilliant.


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## Billysboots (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If Burnley go down then surely Pope will be snapped up by a very good club. Another set of quality saves tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Top quality performance this evening.


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## clubchamp98 (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just wait for his summer rebuild 😉. Next season will be the year of Frank 😆

Ooo, I can start reading transfer gossip again now. Yay.
		
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Your rebuild should start with a manager.


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just wait for his summer rebuild 😉. Next season will be the year of Frank 😆

Ooo, I can start reading transfer gossip again now. Yay.
		
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Rebuild? Your starting 11 is over 200 million

Wouldn't trust the system to buy right


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## nickjdavis (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If Burnley go down then surely Pope will be snapped up by a very good club. Another set of quality saves tonight.
		
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I'd be happy to see him at Newcastle. He was superb tonight.


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## Jensen (May 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Spurs need a new keeper
		
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Really…..


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## Slime (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just wait for his summer rebuild 😉. Next season will be the year of Frank 😆

Ooo, I can start reading transfer gossip again now. Yay.
		
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You're not buying anyone, apparently United are in talks with EVERYBODY!


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Really…..
		
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Yes, lloris isn't what he was , he's also 35 and showing , yes keepers last longer but he makes too many errors as it is 

Good keeper in his day , time to upgrade 

Pope is 5 years younger and would be perfect fit


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## Jensen (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just wait for his summer rebuild 😉. Next season will be the year of Frank 😆

Ooo, I can start reading transfer gossip again now. Yay.
		
Click to expand...


Delighted for you. The premier league is far better with you in it 👍


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## Jensen (May 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Yes, lloris isn't what he was , he's also 35 and showing , yes keepers last longer but he makes too many errors as it is 

Good keeper in his day , time to upgrade 


Pope is 5 years younger and would be perfect fit
		
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Fair point, I didn’t realise lloris is as old as 35


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## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			I'd be happy to see him at Newcastle. He was superb tonight.
		
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Word seems to be that you are getting a keeper, he would be a great choice. 



Slime said:



			You're not buying anyone, apparently United are in talks with EVERYBODY!
		
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It's okay, we are not in for any Dutch players 😆


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Fair point, I didn’t realise lloris is as old as 35
		
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I know it's remarkable, time flies. I mean fabianski is 37, I expect him to be fine for another season as he has never been like lloris in the sense..diff style of keeper .. normally the type that is fine with age because it suits their game .. good positioning

However he will need to be phased out 

Pope would be outstanding for spurs 

Could see him end up England's number 1


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## clubchamp98 (May 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I know it's remarkable, time flies. I mean fabianski is 37, I expect him to be fine for another season as he has never been like lloris in the sense..diff style of keeper .. normally the type that is fine with age because it suits their game .. good positioning

However he will need to be phased out

Pope would be outstanding for spurs

Could see him end up England's number 1
		
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Yes I agree.
He’s better than Pickford , but he hasn’t made any mistakes in the England shirt.
Spurs would be a good move for him.


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
He’s better than Pickford , but he hasn’t made any mistakes in the England shirt.
Spurs would be a good move for him.
		
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I mean id love him at West ham but I'd rather spend less on aereola and spend more on a left back 

Great player tho, always a tough player to beat


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## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Rebuild? Your starting 11 is over 200 million

Wouldn't trust the system to buy right
		
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New people behind the scenes now. Oh, and Frank to oversee 😁.

It might be over £200m but it's a mishmash of players brought in by too many different managers. We don't need major surgery,  keeping DCL fit will transform us alone, but we do need to move on a number of players and plug some gaps.


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## Jensen (May 19, 2022)

Despite tonight’s result, I’ve been very impressed with what Patrick Viera is doing at Palace.
He’s got them playing some good football and a enjoyable to watch. Would be nice if he could get Gallagher on a permanent


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			New people behind the scenes now. Oh, and Frank to oversee 😁.

It might be over £200m but it's a mishmash of players brought in by too many different managers. We don't need major surgery,  keeping DCL fit will transform us alone, but we do need to move on a number of players and plug some gaps.
		
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Frank spent 212 million at Chelsea on transfers , mostly a waste 

He does better when he is working on a tight budget it seems (derby)


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## pauljames87 (May 19, 2022)

Viera getting stick for kicking out at a Everton fan

Shouldn't be on the pitch.


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## BiMGuy (May 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
He’s better than Pickford , but he hasn’t made any mistakes in the England shirt.
Spurs would be a good move for him.
		
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Pope isn’t better than Pickford. Pope is a good shot stopper, but isn’t good enough with his feet.


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Yes, lloris isn't what he was , he's also 35 and showing , yes keepers last longer but he makes too many errors as it is

Good keeper in his day , time to upgrade

Pope is 5 years younger and would be perfect fit
		
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Lloris is world class. He doesn't make 'too many errors'. Probably about 3 this entire season.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Lloris is world class. He doesn't make 'too many errors'. Probably about 3 this entire season.
		
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He is not close to world class. He is a good keeper but he is getting old and mistakes getting into his game 

This is just like a few seasons ago when you said you didn't need to spend money lol u need to invest and improve constantly to stay still or you move backwards 

It's time to replace Hugo, have him as competition/ back up

We did it this season we fabianski and he played so well we couldn't drop him in the league.

Pope would push Hugo all the way and you would benefit no end from signing him

But Hugo is not world class. He's good but not the level of world class.


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## Pin-seeker (May 20, 2022)

Wow what a comeback from Everton,didn’t think they had it in them.
And a performance from Deli Ali 😱


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## Pin-seeker (May 20, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527404547072741376
The lad absolutely 💩 it when Vieira turned around 😂


----------



## adam6177 (May 20, 2022)

Woken up to see the Everton result.... Fantastic news.  League wouldn't have been the same without you. (Plus easy 6 points next season's obviously).


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 20, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Woken up to see the Everton result.... Fantastic news.  League wouldn't have been the same without you. (Plus easy 6 points next season's obviously).
		
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Pleased they stayed up.  They do a heck of a lot of good in their local community.


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## Yorkhacker (May 20, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Your rebuild should start with a manager.
		
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They should stick with Lampard for a couple of months at least next season. At least he got them out of the mess Benitez got them into.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 20, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Woken up to see the Everton result.... Fantastic news.  League wouldn't have been the same without you. (Plus easy 6 points next season's obviously).
		
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Not sure how you will manage against us without Origi next season 😉😆


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## Lord Tyrion (May 20, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Frank spent 212 million at Chelsea on transfers , mostly a waste

He does better when he is working on a tight budget it seems (derby)
		
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Kai Havertz €80m, Timo Werner €53m, Ben Chilwell€50.2m, Hakim Ziyech €40m, Edouard Mendy €24m, Thiago Silva Free, Malang Sarr Free

All of the above, Sarr excluded, are still first teamers are they not? So not a waste. Werner is probably the least successful but he came with glowing CV in Germany and was chased after by a number of clubs. Worth going for, he just hasn't worked. 

You have got to let that dislike go, it's better for you 😁


----------



## Neilds (May 20, 2022)

Sad and worrying to see the idiots seem to be taking over football again.  At least 3 stories this week of 'altercations' between players and fans during pitch invasions at the end of matches.  This, coupled with all the flares that are being taken to matches could start a worrying spiral to the dark days of the 70s and 80s.  Hopefully courts will be swift to punish 'fans' like the Forest bloke who went down for 24 weeks after assaulting Billy Sharp


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## Yorkhacker (May 20, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Hopefully courts will be swift to punish 'fans' like the Forest bloke who went down for 24 weeks after assaulting Billy Sharp
		
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He should have got at least 12 months.  Apparently “His sole intention was to get to the tunnel. He remembers running towards the players but to the left of Billy Sharp, looking at the crowd... and then running straight into somebody.
He accepts that he has collided with the right side of the player's cheek. It's not targeted on the player."

It's quite clear from the video what his intention was.


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## Robster59 (May 20, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Sad and worrying to see the idiots seem to be taking over football again.  At least 3 stories this week of 'altercations' between players and fans during pitch invasions at the end of matches.  This, coupled with all the flares that are being taken to matches could start a worrying spiral to the dark days of the 70s and 80s.  Hopefully courts will be swift to punish 'fans' like the Forest bloke who went down for 24 weeks after assaulting Billy Sharp
		
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This is my concern. It's the herd effect.  Supporters are seeing people invade pitches at other clubs and think it's ok to do the same. The more people who invade the pitch, the more chance of incidents like we've seen. They need to clamp down on this before it escalates.


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## Robster59 (May 20, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			He should have got at least 12 months.  Apparently “His sole intention was to get to the tunnel. He remembers running towards the players but to the left of Billy Sharp, looking at the crowd... and then running straight into somebody.
He accepts that he has collided with the right side of the player's cheek. It's not targeted on the player."

It's quite clear from the video what his intention was.
		
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When someone runs towards another person, and their head goes forward in a butting motion, it's hard to argue it was unintentional.


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2022)

So it has got to the squeaky bum part of the season. Some clubs are staying put ( inc Everton and am chuffed to bits). Some have already gone down, others gone up. Some are still to find out there fate re relegation and promotion. The appropriate emotions will go hand in hand with the outcome of this weekends game and the play off games. 
Still got Europe positions to play for in the Prem especially 4th spot and north London bragging rights.
Me I have an eye on the mighty Stags, And Forest. But most importantly the City Liverpool title race. Hope the neutrals have enjoyed it. Personally I am gobsmacked City are still at the top. They have stuttered since After Xmas there flowing mojo is now in spits and spats. KDB has dragged City along putting them in the position they now are. I hope he can do it one more time. If it were not for him Liverpool would now be one game from an unprecedented Quad. Which Could still happen. The discussions can then start on whether they are the best ever team that’s played. Oh the joys of discussing that 😉
Come what may, who ever wins the Prem Title on Sunday its Been a stonking race.


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## Slime (May 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



*Come what may, who ever wins the Prem Title on Sunday its Been a stonking race.*

Click to expand...

*
NO ........................................ IT ....................................... HAS ................................... NOT!*


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2022)

Slime said:



*NO ........................................ IT ....................................... HAS ................................... NOT!*

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂👍


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## larmen (May 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			So it has got to the squeaky bum part of the season. Some clubs are staying put ( inc Everton and am chuffed to bits). Some have already gone down, others gone up. Some are still to find out there fate re relegation and promotion. The appropriate emotions will go hand in hand with the outcome of this weekends game and the play off games.
Still got Europe positions to play for in the Prem especially 4th spot and north London bragging rights.
Me I have an eye on the mighty Stags, And Forest. But most importantly the City Liverpool title race. Hope the neutrals have enjoyed it. Personally I am gobsmacked City are still at the top. They have stuttered since After Xmas there flowing mojo is now in spits and spats. KDB has dragged City along putting them in the position they now are. I hope he can do it one more time. If it were not for him Liverpool would now be one game from an unprecedented Quad. Which Could still happen. The discussions can then start on whether they are the best ever team that’s played. Oh the joys of discussing that 😉
Come what may, who ever wins the Prem Title on Sunday its Been a stonking race.
		
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Nice recap, but you missed the most important one. Rooney or Vardy?


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2022)

larmen said:



			Nice recap, but you missed the most important one. Rooney or Vardy?
		
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Just had a quick peruse on BBC re “ 10 things we may have missed” dear god no I haven’t missed it. i Find it all quite pathetic And they both come across as thick. Apparently Vardys agent dropped her phone ( with evidence on it) into the sea. Rooneys barrister sarcastically said “ it’s a shame it’s in Davy Jones locker” Vardy said “ Who is Davy Jones” 😖


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just had a quick peruse on BBC re “ 10 things we may have missed” dear god no I haven’t missed it. i Find it all quite pathetic And they both come across as thick. Apparently Vardys agent dropped her phone ( with evidence on it) into the sea. Rooneys barrister sarcastically said “ it’s a shame it’s in Davy Jones locker” Vardy said “ Who is Davy Jones” 😖
		
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Yes waste of the court and judges time.
Could have settled it in the pub over a glass of wine.
Solicitors had a nice pay day though.


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## Pathetic Shark (May 20, 2022)

All these pitch invasions are getting ridiculous.   Forget fines, unless the FA steps in and forfeits the game for the team's fans doing it, nothing will ever change and the assaults we have seen this week will continue until someone gets seriously hurt.
Draconian move - yes.  But perhaps necessary.


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes waste of the court and judges time.
Could have settled it in the pub over a glass of wine.
Solicitors had a nice pay day though.
		
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Not sure but, Do the winners of Heard v Depp and Vardy v Rooney meet in the final? 🤔


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## adam6177 (May 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not sure how you will manage against us without Origi next season 😉😆
		
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Excuse me, full title please.... Lord Divock of Origi. 👑


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He is not close to world class. He is a good keeper but he is getting old and mistakes getting into his game

This is just like a few seasons ago when you said you didn't need to spend money lol u need to invest and improve constantly to stay still or you move backwards

It's time to replace Hugo, have him as competition/ back up

We did it this season we fabianski and he played so well we couldn't drop him in the league.

Pope would push Hugo all the way and you would benefit no end from signing him

But Hugo is not world class. He's good but not the level of world class.
		
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I popped onto Squawka and they have an article ranking the best keepers of the season. https://www.squawka.com/en/best-premier-league-goalkeepers-ranked/ 4th best in the league this season. The two you'd expect are above him, plus the Wolves keeper who I've not really watched. Pope is not in the top ten.

I know he's not getting any younger, and I rate Pope highly, but if we signed Pope now he wouldn't be first choice next season. No chance he's better than Lloris yet. I think Hugo suffered through being more exposed when we lost Vertonghen and were playing clowns like Sanchez in front of him - same thing that happened to De Gea. Since Romero's come in and Dier has stepped up a bit, he's back to being solid again. 

I actually saw rumours last week that we'd be signing Sam Johnstone from WBA as our new back-up/cup goalie. Not as good as Pope but still wouldn't mind it. Either way I think it's worth having an English second goalie because of the homegrown nonsense.


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527404547072741376
The lad absolutely 💩 it when Vieira turned around 😂
		
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Not much chance of this I expect, but I really hope there is no charge for Vieira. This bloke absolutely deserved a kicking. Putting two middle fingers up in someone's face because you think you're untouchable? Scum of the earth. 

Seen this one doing the rounds again, I love it. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526998731631038467


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## Swango1980 (May 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Not much chance of this I expect, but I really hope there is no charge for Vieira. This bloke absolutely deserved a kicking. Putting two middle fingers up in someone's face because you think you're untouchable? Scum of the earth.

Seen this one doing the rounds again, I love it. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526998731631038467

Click to expand...

Haha, I love the way that, after he punches them or grabs them, not one acts with any retaliation. They look like they have suddenly been shamed and walk off in shock and disgrace.


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Haha, I love the way that, after he punches them or grabs them, not one acts with any retaliation. They look like they have suddenly been shamed and walk off in shock and disgrace.
		
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Yeah, a bit before my time, but the respect people had for Clough must have been sky-high. Or people just had more respect in those days generally. Probably bit of both.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 20, 2022)

Robster59 said:



			This is my concern. It's the herd effect.  Supporters are seeing people invade pitches at other clubs and think it's ok to do the same. The more people who invade the pitch, the more chance of incidents like we've seen. They need to clamp down on this before it escalates.
		
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And so a great pity that the Sky TV presenter, commentator and pundits at the Forest Sheff Utd game were revelling in the scenes at the end - without a single word of concern or condemnation that I heard.


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## Swango1980 (May 20, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so a great pity that the Sky TV commentators and pundits at the Forest Sheff Utd game were revelling in the scenes at the end - without a single word of concern or condemnation that I heard.
		
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That is just it. Pundits and commentators are happy to take the moral high ground as soon as something goes wrong. However, until that point, they focus more on the jubilation of fans, with the pitch invasion being a sign of the passion, relief and joy of the fans. Of course, for most fans that is the case. However, if only 0.1% of fans are scumbags, if 2000 fans invade the pitch, you have 2 nutters running around looking to verbally or physically abuse opposition players or staff.

I'd be pretty nervous if I was an away player or manager in that situation. Can you imagine if Everton had happened to be playing a rival team, like Liverpool, where emotions run much higher? Or a team in which one or two of the players were known wind up merchants? That could really be a recipe for disaster.


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## hairball_89 (May 20, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Excuse me, full title please.... Lord Divock of Origi. 👑
		
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It's Big Divock's world, and we all just live in it!


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## Blue in Munich (May 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Kai Havertz €80m, Timo Werner €53m, Ben Chilwell€50.2m, Hakim Ziyech €40m, Edouard Mendy €24m, Thiago Silva Free, Malang Sarr Free

All of the above, Sarr excluded, are still first teamers are they not? So not a waste. Werner is probably the least successful but he came with glowing CV in Germany and was chased after by a number of clubs. Worth going for, he just hasn't worked.

You have got to let that dislike go, it's better for you 😁
		
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There's nothing wrong with either Lukaku or Werner if we could get over our aversion to playing an early ball for them to run onto; the number of checked runs they make per game is ridiculous and frustrating.  

The only disappointment in that list is Malang Sarr, who we paid far too much for.


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## Liverbirdie (May 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That is just it. Pundits and commentators are happy to take the moral high ground as soon as something goes wrong. However, until that point, they focus more on the jubilation of fans, with the pitch invasion being a sign of the passion, relief and joy of the fans. Of course, for most fans that is the case. However, if only 0.1% of fans are scumbags, if 2000 fans invade the pitch, you have 2 nutters running around looking to verbally or physically abuse opposition players or staff.

I'd be pretty nervous if I was an away player or manager in that situation. Can you imagine if Everton had happened to be playing a rival team, like Liverpool, where emotions run much higher? Or a team in which one or two of the players were known wind up merchants? That could really be a recipe for disaster.
		
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Nope there is much more than that.

90% of the time there is a "home" pitch invasion the following happens:-

1. They celebrate for 1-2 minutes, grab the players, selfies, jubilation sing songs and so on.

2. The scals then turn to the away fans to wind up, fight with. Depending on the club could be a few hundred, could be more. You also get people who wouldn't get involved in stuff also fancy a bit of it in their reverie.

It needs to be cracked down on again, as we'll end up with fences again, as unless you put 2,000 stewards/police out you can't stop it.

The daft things I've heard this week are:-

One of the commentators bellowing these are not football fans, they do not represent football - you know what, yes they are footy fans.

One pundit (Agbonlahor??) saying shouldn't the law ban it - it's been banned for years mate, but not often enforced.


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## pauljames87 (May 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I popped onto Squawka and they have an article ranking the best keepers of the season. https://www.squawka.com/en/best-premier-league-goalkeepers-ranked/ 4th best in the league this season. The two you'd expect are above him, plus the Wolves keeper who I've not really watched. Pope is not in the top ten.

I know he's not getting any younger, and I rate Pope highly, but if we signed Pope now he wouldn't be first choice next season. No chance he's better than Lloris yet. I think Hugo suffered through being more exposed when we lost Vertonghen and were playing clowns like Sanchez in front of him - same thing that happened to De Gea. Since Romero's come in and Dier has stepped up a bit, he's back to being solid again. 

I actually saw rumours last week that we'd be signing Sam Johnstone from WBA as our new back-up/cup goalie. Not as good as Pope but still wouldn't mind it. Either way I think it's worth having an English second goalie because of the homegrown nonsense.
		
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Avoid him like the plague. He been dropped from wba for causing so many errors that lead to goals.


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2022)




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## theoneandonly (May 20, 2022)

You couldn't make this 💩 up.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61524883

That's up there with the Linfield kit 😂


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## ColchesterFC (May 20, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			That shouldn't be allowed between domestic clubs IMO, say it was a 40 million bonus?

Ok in international transfers, but not domestic.
		
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Interestingly just been reading that Liverpool will have to pay Wolves several million pounds if they win the league as part of the Jota transfer. So that's Man City v Villa with a Grealish bonus due and Liverpool v Wolves with a Jota bonus due on the last day of the season to decide who wins the title.


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not sure but, Do the winners of Heard v Depp and Vardy v Rooney meet in the final? 🤔
		
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Haven’t we suffered enough.
I blame News at Ten and the Media ,they should not give them the publicity.


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			There's nothing wrong with either Lukaku or Werner if we could get over our aversion to playing an early ball for them to run onto; the number of checked runs they make per game is ridiculous and frustrating. 

The only disappointment in that list is Malang Sarr, who we paid far too much for.
		
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I think Werner’s general game is excellent but his finishing isn’t.
The chances he’s had he should be up the top of the scoring list.
But as a footballer I think he’s really good.


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## SteveW86 (May 20, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			You couldn't make this 💩 up.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61524883

That's up there with the Linfield kit 😂
		
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Pretty much identical to the Saudi Arabia kit


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Pretty much identical to the Saudi Arabia kit
		
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Yes it is.
It’s quite nice imo.

But they have been allowed to buy the club ( some like it some don’t) so they can have whatever kit they like.
Money talks in football and most other places unfortunately.


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## Robster59 (May 20, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes it is.
It’s quite nice imo.

But they have been allowed to buy the club ( some like it some don’t) so they can have whatever kit they like.
Money talks in football and most other places unfortunately.
		
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We used to play 5-a-side in a Derby away kit which was pale blue and white stripes.  We were wearing this and then Argentina invaded the Falklands.  We got a few boos and whistles from the stands the following week.


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## Orikoru (May 20, 2022)

Robster59 said:



			We used to play 5-a-side in a Derby away kit which was pale blue and white stripes.  We were wearing this and then Argentina invaded the Falklands.  We got a few boos and whistles from the stands the following week. 

Click to expand...

Reminds me of the 5-a-side team me and my mates had a decade ago. We fancied getting some sort of kit to avoid the need for bibs, so I went down to Sports Direct to have a look at what I could get. The cheapest option turned out to be a bunch of Olympiakos shirts they were flogging for some unknown reason - they were only 8 quid a shirt! Red & white stripes so generally didn't clash with what other teams were wearing. Later on another mate joined, he's a big feller and none of the Olympiakos shirts I got fitted him, but luckily he's a Brentford fan so he just wore his own Brentford home shirt and matched perfectly.


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2022)

My lad has just shown me a video clip. Apparently from the fan that Patrick Viera put on his backside.It’s from him. 🤬 For  what he says and does he should be banned for life. His 15 mins of infamy should cost him dearly.


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## Tashyboy (May 20, 2022)

Not a bad way to launch a shirt

https://fb.watch/d6hpjWG1-S/


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2022)

Robster59 said:



			We used to play 5-a-side in a Derby away kit which was pale blue and white stripes.  We were wearing this and then Argentina invaded the Falklands.  We got a few boos and whistles from the stands the following week. 

Click to expand...

I didn’t know Derby was in Argentina


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## Lord Tyrion (May 20, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not a bad way to launch a shirt

https://fb.watch/d6hpjWG1-S/

Click to expand...

I had to stop watching that, my wife didn't know what was wrong with me 😭. Lovely stuff, very touching.


----------



## Hobbit (May 20, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I didn’t know Derby was in Argentina 

Click to expand...

its in northern Argentina, obviously….


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 21, 2022)

KDB voted player of the season 👏


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## 4LEX (May 21, 2022)

I don't think Everton's relegation trouble is over yet. Their finances are a mess and no doubt Leeds or Burnley will be taking legal acrtion. They've broken standard FFP rules 100%, the only question is was the huge excess down to Covid or is it being used an excuse. I suspect the latter as the lack of income from gate income doesn't come close to how far over they are. 

If they manage to get away with it, they'll have to sell key players and sign free transfers with reduced wages to avoid going over the limit again, as they did last summer. They'll be in another relegation battle next season, more so if Lampard isn't sacked and replaced with a Dyche type....


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I don't think Everton's relegation trouble is over yet. Their finances are a mess and no doubt Leeds or Burnley will be taking legal acrtion. They've broken standard FFP rules 100%, the only question is was the huge excess down to Covid or is it being used an excuse. I suspect the latter as the lack of income from gate income doesn't come close to how far over they are.

If they manage to get away with it, they'll have to sell key players and sign free transfers with reduced wages to avoid going over the limit again, as they did last summer. They'll be in another relegation battle next season, more so if Lampard isn't sacked and replaced with a Dyche type....
		
Click to expand...

If Everton have broken the PL rules on FFP then surely it is for the league to take action? The fact that it is Burnley and Leeds taking action says it all. It smacks of desperation and I believe Everton are pretty relaxed about it. The PL have been aware of this for months, there is nothing hidden.

As for what happens in the summer 🤷‍♂️. Delph, Tosun and Sigurdsson are all out of contract, are all big earners, don't really figure and will be off the books. We will also off load some others, Gomes and Rondon being the obvious but I suspect Allen may go as well, maybe Mina. More big wages gone, even if we have to subsidise a little. I wouldn't be surprised if Richarlison left but we will get a decent fee for him. We need to box cleverly, make sure our 2 loan signings are well thought out and we will be okay. The key is to keep DCL fit and have a proper back up for him. That has been our real weakness this year, a lack of goals.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 21, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Interestingly just been reading that Liverpool will have to pay Wolves several million pounds if they win the league as part of the Jota transfer. So that's Man City v Villa with a Grealish bonus due and Liverpool v Wolves with a Jota bonus due on the last day of the season to decide who wins the title.
		
Click to expand...

Oh, thats okay then. 

I stand by what I say, as it shouldn't be there as a temptation in any situation domestically.  These transfers fees may go up to even sillier levels in the next few years.

Say Norwich were already down and City had to pay an extra 80 million for one of their players if they won the league and it was Norwich vs city in the last game? It shouldnt be a possibility.


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## arnieboy (May 21, 2022)

Congratulations to Sunderland,  thoroughly deserved and likely to do well in the Championship.


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## Liverbirdie (May 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If Everton have broken the PL rules on FFP then surely it is for the league to take action? The fact that it is Burnley and Leeds taking action says it all. It smacks of desperation and I believe Everton are pretty relaxed about it. The PL have been aware of this for months, there is nothing hidden.

As for what happens in the summer 🤷‍♂️. Delph, Tosun and Sigurdsson are all out of contract, are all big earners, don't really figure and will be off the books. We will also off load some others, Gomes and Rondon being the obvious but I suspect Allen may go as well, maybe Mina. More big wages gone, even if we have to subsidise a little. I wouldn't be surprised if Richarlison left but we will get a decent fee for him. We need to box cleverly, make sure our 2 loan signings are well thought out and we will be okay. The key is to keep DCL fit and have a proper back up for him. That has been our real weakness this year, a lack of goals.
		
Click to expand...

Is that the same premier league who still have an "open" investigation against Man City which was alongside UEFA's one, that has been painfully quiet for about 3 years?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is that the same premier league who still have an "open" investigation against Man City which was alongside UEFA's one, that has been painfully quiet for about 3 years?
		
Click to expand...

Yup, that one 😁


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## ColchesterFC (May 21, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh, thats okay then. 

I stand by what I say, as it shouldn't be there as a temptation in any situation domestically.  These transfers fees may go up to even sillier levels in the next few years.

Say Norwich were already down and City had to pay an extra 80 million for one of their players if they won the league and it was Norwich vs city in the last game? It shouldnt be a possibility.
		
Click to expand...

I totally agree. Anything that has the potential to affect the sporting integrity of a competition shouldn't be allowed. Having said that I can't see Gerrard agreeing to roll over and let Man City win the title just because of this clause, but the temptation must be there for the club owners.


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## IanM (May 21, 2022)

Brentford have been in talks to ground share with Fulham next season while their stadium is repaired!


----------



## fundy (May 21, 2022)

Seems PSG have appointed Kylian Mbappe as manager, head coach, director of football and basically now completely untouchable and bigger than the club

Madrid and La Liga properly seething lol


----------



## Swango1980 (May 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Seems PSG have appointed Kylian Mbappe as manager, head coach, director of football and basically now completely untouchable and bigger than the club

Madrid and La Liga properly seething lol
		
Click to expand...

Think I heard PSG have offered him wages of €1 million per week, which blows Real Madrid's €20 million per year and €100 million signing on fee out of the water.

I assume PSG are able to do all this well within any financial fair play restrictions?


----------



## Blue in Munich (May 21, 2022)




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## clubchamp98 (May 21, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			KDB voted player of the season 👏
		
Click to expand...

Rightly so .


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## Jensen (May 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If Everton have broken the PL rules on FFP then surely it is for the league to take action? The fact that it is Burnley and Leeds taking action says it all. It smacks of desperation and I believe Everton are pretty relaxed about it. The PL have been aware of this for months, there is nothing hidden.

As for what happens in the summer 🤷‍♂️. Delph, Tosun and Sigurdsson are all out of contract, are all big earners, don't really figure and will be off the books. We will also off load some others, Gomes and Rondon being the obvious but I suspect Allen may go as well, maybe Mina. More big wages gone, even if we have to subsidise a little. I wouldn't be surprised if Richarlison left but we will get a decent fee for him. We need to box cleverly, make sure our 2 loan signings are well thought out and we will be okay. The key is to keep DCL fit and have a proper back up for him. That has been our real weakness this year, a lack of goals.
		
Click to expand...

I’m surprised Sigurdssons contract wasn’t cancelled long ago, considering what was found on his computer


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## BrianM (May 21, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I’m surprised Sigurdssons contract wasn’t cancelled long ago, considering what was found on his computer
		
Click to expand...

What was found on his computer that you are 100% sure off, did you see it yourself?


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## Jensen (May 21, 2022)

BrianM said:



			What was found on his computer that you are 100% sure off, did you see it yourself?
		
Click to expand...

No smoke without fire. Why then has he been conspicuous by his absence


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## pauljames87 (May 22, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I’m surprised Sigurdssons contract wasn’t cancelled long ago, considering what was found on his computer
		
Click to expand...

Thought it was nothing to do with computers .. the story was he went to the police as he was being blackmailed due to paying for an escort that then was claiming to be underage .. 

They threatened to report him if he didn't pay so he went police 

Nothing to do with images etc


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## Hobbit (May 22, 2022)

The joys of watching La Liga 2. Almeria played Alcorcon last night. Kick off was 10pm, and it usually takes 1.5 hours to get home after a match finishes. Too hot for an earlier kick off really, 27* at 10pm.

What a frustrating team Almeria are to watch. Top ‘v’ bottom, and a win for Almeria guarantees promotion. It just wouldn’t go in, till the 93min. Almeria equalised in injury time but drop to second in the league. 1 match left with automatic promotion still in their own hands - 2nd will do, but 3rd place is only 2pts behind.

Will Almeria blow it, as they did last season, or dare I dream… at least the season ticket isn’t expensive @ €120.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I’m surprised Sigurdssons contract wasn’t cancelled long ago, considering what was found on his computer
		
Click to expand...

He hasn't had his trial yet. If they cancelled before then then no doubt they could be sued for breach of contract, unfair dismissal etc. If found guilty then the contract would instantly terminate but the wheels of justice are turning very slowly right now so instead his contract will simply run out.


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## howbow88 (May 22, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			The joys of watching La Liga 2. Almeria played Alcorcon last night. Kick off was 10pm, and it usually takes 1.5 hours to get home after a match finishes. Too hot for an earlier kick off really, 27* at 10pm.

What a frustrating team Almeria are to watch. Top ‘v’ bottom, and a win for Almeria guarantees promotion. It just wouldn’t go in, till the 93min. Almeria equalised in injury time but drop to second in the league. 1 match left with automatic promotion still in their own hands - 2nd will do, but 3rd place is only 2pts behind.

Will Almeria blow it, as they did last season, or dare I dream… at least the season ticket isn’t expensive @ €120.
		
Click to expand...

What's the atmosphere like?


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## Hobbit (May 22, 2022)

howbow88 said:



			What's the atmosphere like?
		
Click to expand...

Typical, everyday, Spain. Lots of arm waving and noise. Small ground full to the rafters helps.


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## BrianM (May 22, 2022)

Jensen said:



			No smoke without fire. Why then has he been conspicuous by his absence
		
Click to expand...

So you’re speculating…..


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## Tashyboy (May 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He hasn't had his trial yet. If they cancelled before then then no doubt they could be sued for breach of contract, unfair dismissal etc. If found guilty then the contract would instantly terminate but the wheels of justice are turning very slowly right now so instead his contract will simply run out.
		
Click to expand...

Very similar to Mendy and Greenwood I would imagine. If it were that simple to cancel his contract it would of happened already 👍


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## clubchamp98 (May 22, 2022)

Jensen said:



			No smoke without fire. Why then has he been conspicuous by his absence
		
Click to expand...

If that’s the case for the prosecution the trial won’t last long!
Any actual evidence?


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## BrianM (May 22, 2022)

👀


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## Jimaroid (May 22, 2022)

😬


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## pokerjoke (May 22, 2022)

Time for Sterling


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## pauljames87 (May 22, 2022)

Such an interesting last day of the season 

Relegation not sorted 

Title not sorted 

Top 4 not completely sorted 

Personally race for 6th ..

Got a £50 bet that we finish above United .. got the £50 in my wallet to hand over tomorrow when we implode second half or man United turn it round 

Big 45 mins in the premier League for sure


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## greenone (May 22, 2022)

When is the last time ManU finished without a positive GD?


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## paddyc (May 22, 2022)

greenone said:



			When is the last time ManU finished without a positive GD?
		
Click to expand...

Who cares mate!


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## pokerjoke (May 22, 2022)

A 100 million pound player who Pep doesn’t think can win a game for them
Why buy him


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## paddyc (May 22, 2022)

As much as it pains me to say but HM Son is absolutely class.


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## Beezerk (May 22, 2022)

Wow, what a game at City.


----------



## paddyc (May 22, 2022)

City pulled it out of the bag !wow


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## Pin-seeker (May 22, 2022)

Well Done city 👏 👏👏

Karma at its finest 😊


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## hairball_89 (May 22, 2022)

Well... Wow. What a day. The title winners every Red expected really, but not quite the way we thought it would happen. Villa almost did us the favour but my god Man City are a heck of a team.

Roll on the CL final.


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## fundy (May 22, 2022)

Congrats City, unlucky Liverpool, some effort! Guess theyll have to make do with 2 cups and CL instead!

Spurs get 4th as expected, deservedly so since Conte came in 

Leeds and Everton survive, wont be too many outside Burnley sad to see them gone

shame to see united pip West ham for 6th too


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## JamesR (May 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Well Done city 👏 👏👏

Karma at its finest 😊
		
Click to expand...

Karma?
In what way?


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## Canary_Yellow (May 22, 2022)

The best team won the league, great final day drama. Really good viewing.

Now I’m hoping for a Liverpool CL win to top the season off


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## AmandaJR (May 22, 2022)

Jeez City...why oh why oh why does it have to be so stressful! I went into the garden to calm down as the dogs couldn't stand the tension. We scored, so I stayed out there...


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## Jimaroid (May 22, 2022)

Gutted for the Reds, I thought they’d gone and got the deserved miracle for a while there. 

It’s been a great season on the whole.


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## Orikoru (May 22, 2022)

Perfect final day really. City win the league. Spurs get 4th at a canter. Classic Arsenal putting in a big performance when it's too late.  Burnley down as well. Nothing against them, but I don't think they'll be missed. I wanted Leeds to stay up as I see them as a big club, or at least a Premier League level club. Hopefully Forest come up now and join them. 

You have to say Conte is a world class manager. He's come in, straight away identified what was and wasn't working, what was needed, and made it happen. Ruthless. Absolutely fantastic turnaround. Got to back him in the market now if we don't want to lose him.


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## Billysboots (May 22, 2022)

Thank heavens that season is over 😉


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## adam6177 (May 22, 2022)

Well for me that final day almost had everything.... Fantastic showcase for the league with everything still to play for on the final day.

Congrats City and Leeds. But I can't deny... I'm happy Burnley are down.


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## Pathetic Shark (May 22, 2022)

Neanderthal parents letting their kids behave like morons on the pitch after Man City win.


----------



## Banchory Buddha (May 22, 2022)

Don't watch much of the GPL, but for the first two minutes of extra time Man City players were rolling about like they were on the front line, ref added 26 seconds. Poor poor show


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 22, 2022)

Well done to City.


----------



## Fade and Die (May 22, 2022)

Disappointing end to a great season, we looked tired and had no real energy, I wonder why that is 🤔

Well done City, at least those 🤬 didn't win the title……. That would have been unbearable. 😁


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## 4LEX (May 22, 2022)

Gotta feel for Liverpool. Finished second with 97 and 92 points in 19 and 22. Any other era and it's a title by 10 points plus. A truly special team. Hope they make it a cup Treble next weekend.

Honestly thought City had bottled it and couldn't see where a goal was coming from. What a finish to the title and congratulations to City. With a pure striker they'll be tough to beat next season.


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## 4LEX (May 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If Everton have broken the PL rules on FFP then surely it is for the league to take action? The fact that it is Burnley and Leeds taking action says it all. It smacks of desperation and I believe Everton are pretty relaxed about it. The PL have been aware of this for months, there is nothing hidden.

As for what happens in the summer 🤷‍♂️. Delph, Tosun and Sigurdsson are all out of contract, are all big earners, don't really figure and will be off the books. We will also off load some others, Gomes and Rondon being the obvious but I suspect Allen may go as well, maybe Mina. More big wages gone, even if we have to subsidise a little. I wouldn't be surprised if Richarlison left but we will get a decent fee for him. We need to box cleverly, make sure our 2 loan signings are well thought out and we will be okay. The key is to keep DCL fit and have a proper back up for him. That has been our real weakness this year, a lack of goals.
		
Click to expand...

The PL is way more relaxed on FFP than the EFL, who have nailed numerous teams. Most likely to avoid bad PR and taint their brand. I think you'll be fine but it's no way to run a club.

Those names you mention sum up how bad the club has been run. I'm no fan of the current Everton side but the club and support deserves better. Do you think Lampard is the right man for the job?


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## fundy (May 22, 2022)

What goes through some peoples heads? Your side has just won the premier league, winning 3-2 having been 2-0 down. Rather than celebrate you think invading the pitch and attacking the opposition keeper is the way to proceed. Will be the same people moaning when theyre caged in away from the pitch in future!

English football needs to act fast on pitch invasions as its seemingly contagious


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Do you think Lampard is the right man for the job?
		
Click to expand...

I don't know in all honesty but he is in the job and both parties need it to work. He has a chance to mould a team, build something. If it doesn't work, will he get another chance in the PL? I doubt it. 

We need a period of stability and to get things right for our stadium move. We can't keep changing managers and buying in bunches of players who ultimately don't fit.

I like the fact he is relatively young, for management, rather than another regular older guy on the treadmill. He has a good team of coaches around him. Now they have the summer to move deadwood out, new guys in and drill the players into how he wants them to play. He needs to start the new season well, get the confidence going. The fans are with him though, that helps (ask Rafa 🤭)


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## Hobbit (May 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't know in all honesty but he is in the job and both parties need it to work. He has a chance to mould a team, build something. If it doesn't work, will he get another chance in the PL? I doubt it.

We need a period of stability and to get things right for our stadium move. We can't keep changing managers and buying in bunches of players who ultimately don't fit.

I like the fact he is relatively young, for management, rather than another regular older guy on the treadmill. He has a good team of coaches around him. Now they have the summer to move deadwood out, new guys in and drill the players into how he wants them to play. He needs to start the new season well, get the confidence going. The fans are with him though, that helps (ask Rafa 🤭)
		
Click to expand...

I’m inclined to think that as Everton’s board has a revolving door policy with managers, it’s the board that needs a major revamp. If they don’t rejig from the top first it’ll be deja vue next season.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			What goes through some peoples heads? Your side has just won the premier league, winning 3-2 having been 2-0 down. Rather than celebrate you think invading the pitch and attacking the opposition keeper is the way to proceed. Will be the same people moaning when theyre caged in away from the pitch in future!

English football needs to act fast on pitch invasions as its seemingly contagious
		
Click to expand...

In this sense it is good timing for the end of the season. Hopefully things will be put in place for the start of next season to knock this on the head. You are right, this is currently contagious and fans of different teams seem to want to copy each other as though they might be missing out if they don't invade.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			I’m inclined to think that as Everton’s board has a revolving door policy with managers, it’s the board that needs a major revamp. If they don’t rejig from the top first it’ll be deja vue next season.
		
Click to expand...

The top is the guy with the money. It's his club..................🤷‍♂️ (Rafa was his appointment 🙄)


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## fundy (May 22, 2022)

Turns out its idiots not idiot 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528446811735826433


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## Jimaroid (May 22, 2022)

I’m glad we’ve avoided relegation but I have to admit that the relief comes with a bitter price. We’ll never know now, as it hasn’t happened, but I think relegation could have seen the end of Moshiri and possibly the destruction and subsequent rebirth of the club free from his taint.

I don’t like Moshiri and I don’t like the board. And staying up only gives them more freedom and time to make things worse. They’ve escaped punishment and I dislike that lack of culpability.

I do like Frank and I like what he’s saying and doing so far. I hope he’s allowed to develop the team he sees and wants. I believe in him more than any manager we’ve had since Moyes - that in itself is a shocking reminder of what I feel about the club’s direction over the last decade.


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## Canary_Yellow (May 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Perfect final day really. City win the league. Spurs get 4th at a canter. Classic Arsenal putting in a big performance when it's too late.  Burnley down as well. Nothing against them, but I don't think they'll be missed. I wanted Leeds to stay up as I see them as a big club, or at least a Premier League level club. Hopefully Forest come up now and join them.

You have to say Conte is a world class manager. He's come in, straight away identified what was and wasn't working, what was needed, and made it happen. Ruthless. Absolutely fantastic turnaround. Got to back him in the market now if we don't want to lose him.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully not yet another false dawn at spurs. Certainly looks like there’s potential to build something next season, avoiding last summer’s uncertainty will be a good start! Kane will surely be there for the long haul.


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## Canary_Yellow (May 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Turns out its idiots not idiot 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528446811735826433

Click to expand...

One of those looks like an accidental collision? Or am I giving too much credit?

I found it hard to see exactly what they were doing to him. Obviously touching him in any way is totally inappropriate, but thankfully nothing like the attack on Billy sharp, as far as I could tell.


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## Canary_Yellow (May 22, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I’m glad we’ve avoided relegation but I have to admit that the relief comes with a bitter price. We’ll never know now, as it hasn’t happened, but I think relegation could have seen the end of Moshiri and possibly the destruction and subsequent rebirth of the club free from his taint.

I don’t like Moshiri and I don’t like the board. And staying up only gives them more freedom and time to make things worse. They’ve escaped punishment and I dislike that lack of culpability.

I do like Frank and I like what he’s saying and doing so far. I hope he’s allowed to develop the team he sees and wants. I believe in him more than any manager we’ve had since Moyes - that in itself is a shocking reminder of what I feel about the club’s direction over the last decade.
		
Click to expand...

I’m somewhat ignorant about Everton generally, but I think avoiding relegation is huge.

There’s no guarantee of salvation if you were to go down, or at least no guarantee of how quickly it would come.

I know where you’re coming from as bdill would I’m sure tell you villa are in far better shape compared to where they were as they endured a long slide to relegation, which seemed to take a while to come, but had been on the cards for a bit.

However, staying up gives you a chance to turn things around without the pain of a stint in the championship. Hopefully you take it and don’t find yourselves in the same spot again in 12 months time.


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## SteveW86 (May 22, 2022)

These pitch invasions have just got totally out of hand and it needs clamping down on. The minority of fans are ruining it for everyone else, invasions have always happened, but the recent ones people are just pushing it too far, they get away with things in general public life, so will just do it in a stadium.


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## Pin-seeker (May 22, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			These pitch invasions have just got totally out of hand and it needs clamping down on. The minority of fans are ruining it for everyone else, invasions have always happened, but the recent ones people are just pushing it too far, they get away with things in general public life, so will just do it in a stadium.
		
Click to expand...

It definitely needs to stop,feel like it’s only a matter of time before something really bad happens.


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## SteveW86 (May 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			It definitely needs to stop,feel like it’s only a matter of time before something really bad happens.
		
Click to expand...

It doesn’t feel right punishing the clubs because of a few fans, but I think they need to be accountable. They have cctv everywhere and know who they have sold each seat to so tracing the culprits of these attacks is possible.

A pitch invasion should lead to games being played behind closed doors, if this is well publicised then the normal fans won’t even think of going on the pitch. Then there will just be the handful of dickheads to deal with.


----------



## Yorkhacker (May 22, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I do like Frank and I like what he’s saying and doing so far. I hope he’s allowed to develop the team he sees and wants. I believe in him more than any manager we’ve had since Moyes - that in itself is a shocking reminder of what I feel about the club’s direction over the last decade.
		
Click to expand...

I think Lampard will work his nuts off to make Everton successful. Whether he has the skills to do so is another matter. As with Chelsea, its a huge job and he might have been better advised to work his way up to the Premier league. I wish him nothing but success.


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## Hobbit (May 22, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			It doesn’t feel right punishing the clubs because of a few fans, but I think they need to be accountable. They have cctv everywhere and know who they have sold each seat to so tracing the culprits of these attacks is possible.

A pitch invasion should lead to games being played behind closed doors, if this is well publicised then the normal fans won’t even think of going on the pitch. Then there will just be the handful of dickheads to deal with.
		
Click to expand...

The club is responsible for managing the crowd’s behaviour, and also has a duty of care to the players and staff. It’s that simple a concept. Achieving it without fences is almost impossible.

Arrests, life time bans and behind closed doors are all on the table and should be considered. And if financial fair play can lead to points deductions, why can’t pitch invasions? But imagine club a is playing club b, and club c has a vested interest in the outcome, like today. Supporters from club c get tickets for the match between a and b, and then invade the pitch…


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## Pathetic Shark (May 22, 2022)

How about they forfeit the game.  Liverpool become champions because of the fans.    That would stop the problem pretty fast.


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## Pin-seeker (May 22, 2022)

Pathetic Shark said:



			How about they forfeit the game.  Liverpool become champions because of the fans.    That would stop the problem pretty fast.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely not 😂


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## JamesR (May 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			It definitely needs to stop,feel like it’s only a matter of time before something really bad happens.
		
Click to expand...

What, like a goalkeeper being attacked?


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## Beezerk (May 22, 2022)

JamesR said:



			What, like a goalkeeper being attacked?
		
Click to expand...

Was he?
Looked to me like someone said something to him while patting him on the back, then the bloody steward fell over someone 😂


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## Billysboots (May 22, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			The club is responsible for managing the crowd’s behaviour, and also has a duty of care to the players and staff. It’s that simple a concept. Achieving it without fences is almost impossible.

Arrests, life time bans and behind closed doors are all on the table and should be considered. And if financial fair play can lead to points deductions, why can’t pitch invasions? But imagine club a is playing club b, and club c has a vested interest in the outcome, like today. Supporters from club c get tickets for the match between a and b, and then invade the pitch…
		
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Arrests following pitch invasions are hugely problematic these days, primarily because policing is almost entirely confined to outside most grounds, as clubs are not prepared to pay for policing inside of their stadia. There is either no police presence within grounds, or it is very limited.


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## pauljames87 (May 22, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528419830919049217


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## Hobbit (May 22, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Arrests following pitch invasions are hugely problematic these days, primarily because policing is almost entirely confined to outside most grounds, as clubs are not prepared to pay for policing inside of their stadia. There is either no police presence within grounds, or it is very limited.
		
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Clubs are spending a fortune on transfers. Maybe the EPL/EFL need to make it part of FFP that x% is spent on policing based on averages crowds at each club.


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## chrisd (May 22, 2022)

Of course the biggest result today was the Mighty Eagles stuffing Manure 1-0 😉😉


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## pauljames87 (May 22, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Of course the biggest result today was the Mighty Eagles stuffing Manure 1-0 😉😉
		
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Did us a massive favour but we decided to implode and not take the open goal


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 22, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Was he?
Looked to me like someone said something to him while patting him on the back, then the bloody steward fell over someone 😂
		
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Looked like the Villa keeper was assaulted...and Man City seem to have agreed that to be the case.


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## DaveR (May 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			It definitely needs to stop,feel like it’s only a matter of time before something really bad happens.
		
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Already has......Billy Sharp.


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## BrianM (May 22, 2022)

What’s got to happen before it’s sorted, it’s always the same, act after the major incident 🤬


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## Liverbirdie (May 23, 2022)

Wow, just wow.

What an end to the league season.

Congratulations to Man City.


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## Imurg (May 23, 2022)

Stopping Liverpool winning the league is almost enough reason to start following City rather than Utd....


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## Junior (May 23, 2022)

Pipping West Ham to 6th by losing less badly ..... what a fitting end to the season.  Europe league here we come !!!!!!!   

Congrats to City.   As a NEUTRAL (that's right some utd fans hate City as much as Liverpool) it was an exciting finish to the season and a good watch.


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## Tashyboy (May 23, 2022)

God that was painful. I said a few months back City were stuttering. Last week v West Ham and yesterday showed that. My nerves were shot. Hope the neutrals liked the title race. Bad luck Liverpool, but good luck in the champs league final. Just hope they have the legs for one last Hurrah.
Re fans on the pitch. Am glad the season is done. It gives the leagues time to sort out what should be done about people on the pitch. Aside from banning fans and playing games behind closed doors. It will be interesting to see what they do.


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## JamesR (May 23, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Was he?
Looked to me like someone said something to him while patting him on the back, then the bloody steward fell over someone 😂
		
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From the video I've seen it looked like he got clocked, and according to the new he was too


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## Bdill93 (May 23, 2022)

Boubacar Kamara announced 

Gerrard said he wanted his business done early - well he's not hanging around! 

CB and a forward player next please!


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## Beezerk (May 23, 2022)

JamesR said:



			From the video I've seen it looked like he got clocked, and according to the new he was too
		
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I can’t see that in the video, maybe he got hit by something thrown from the crowd? I heard on the radio there have been arrests for people throwing stuff.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2022)

Congrats to City

Heck of season , was always an uphill battle from Jan but we got close with some stunning football this year but fell just short again - Villa teased the situation a little

Both domestic cups and second is a success this season and hopefully round it off with big ears on Saturday

Last couple of weeks from some teams has been a bit mental

Chelsea - the ownership situation seemed to have an affect on the field but losing some big players in the summer and no idea what their new owner will do


Spurs - said months ago that Utd should have got Conte when he was free and they will regret that , he will do ok at Spurs and maybe get a cup but still miles away from the top three

Arsenal - just blew it , some great youngsters , but a lack of steel and experience cost them - Arteta really needs a big move forward next year

West Ham - was a great season for them , and Moyes should keep them as a solid top 8 team - Rice should have won Young POTY

Man Utd - Ten Hag has a hell of a job on his hands.  I’m not sure where he can start , needs a huge overhaul of that squad but first need to get a proper DoF in

Everton - where to start , managed to squeeze out of the relegation places but the current celebrations mask a lot of issues within the club - there is a shadow hanging over them with their Covid “losses” , they can’t spend much more money and they have a squad full of sub standard players. It’s going to be another long season next year for them imo and wouldn’t surprise me to see Lampard gone by Jan ?

Some great seasons for teams like Palace and Brighton - playing really good football and also to Brentford

Burnley got what they deserved when they sacked Dyche

As for the fans going onto the pitch - needs to start with stadium bans , games behind closed doors , suspended point deductions and then points actually being deducted- that should stop them


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## Bdill93 (May 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Congrats to City

Heck of season , was always an uphill battle from Jan but we got close with some stunning football this year but fell just short again - Villa teased the situation a little

Both domestic cups and second is a success this season and hopefully round it off with big ears on Saturday

Last couple of weeks from some teams has been a bit mental

Chelsea - the ownership situation seemed to have an affect on the field but losing some big players in the summer and no idea what their new owner will do


Spurs - said months ago that Utd should have got Conte when he was free and they will regret that , he will do ok at Spurs and maybe get a cup but still miles away from the top three

Arsenal - just blew it , some great youngsters , but a lack of steel and experience cost them - Arteta really needs a big move forward next year

West Ham - was a great season for them , and Moyes should keep them as a solid top 8 team - Rice should have won Young POTY

Man Utd - Ten Haag has a hell of a job on his hands.  I’m not sure where he can start , needs a huge overhaul of that squad but first need to get a proper DoF in

Everton - where to start , managed to squeeze out of the relegation places but the current celebrations mask a lot of issues within the club - there is a shadow hanging over them with their Covid “losses” , they can’t spend much more money and they have a squad full of sub standard players. It’s going to be another long season next year for them imo and wouldn’t surprise me to see Lampard gone by Jan ?

Some great seasons for teams like Palace and Brighton - playing really good football and also to Brentford

Burnley got what they deserved when they sacked Dyche
		
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Was sad to see Burnley finally drop. They've lacked serious investment which is whats required these days to maintain in the Prem and yet stayed for over 12 years, hope they bounce back!


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## Billysboots (May 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Congrats to City

Heck of season , was always an uphill battle from Jan but we got close with some stunning football this year but fell just short again - Villa teased the situation a little

Both domestic cups and second is a success this season and hopefully round it off with big ears on Saturday

Last couple of weeks from some teams has been a bit mental

Chelsea - the ownership situation seemed to have an affect on the field but losing some big players in the summer and no idea what their new owner will do


Spurs - said months ago that Utd should have got Conte when he was free and they will regret that , he will do ok at Spurs and maybe get a cup but still miles away from the top three

Arsenal - just blew it , some great youngsters , but a lack of steel and experience cost them - Arteta really needs a big move forward next year

West Ham - was a great season for them , and Moyes should keep them as a solid top 8 team - Rice should have won Young POTY

Man Utd - Ten Hag has a hell of a job on his hands.  I’m not sure where he can start , needs a huge overhaul of that squad but first need to get a proper DoF in

Everton - where to start , managed to squeeze out of the relegation places but the current celebrations mask a lot of issues within the club - there is a shadow hanging over them with their Covid “losses” , they can’t spend much more money and they have a squad full of sub standard players. It’s going to be another long season next year for them imo and wouldn’t surprise me to see Lampard gone by Jan ?

Some great seasons for teams like Palace and Brighton - playing really good football and also to Brentford

Burnley got what they deserved when they sacked Dyche

As for the fans going onto the pitch - needs to start with stadium bans , games behind closed doors , suspended point deductions and then points actually being deducted- that should stop them
		
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Agree with much of what you say, Phil, apart from Spurs being miles away from the top three. Since Conte’s appointment  I think the stats show they are very much up there with Chelsea. The key for them now is both keeping him, and backing him in the transfer market.


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## Bdill93 (May 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Agree with much of what you say, Phil, apart from Spurs being miles away from the top three. Since Conte’s appointment  I think the stats show they are very much up there with Chelsea. The key for them now is both keeping him, and backing him in the transfer market.
		
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I agree, top 3 achieveable. 

Top 2 - another level entirely!


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## arnieboy (May 23, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Hopefully not yet another false dawn at spurs. Certainly looks like there’s potential to build something next season, avoiding last summer’s uncertainty will be a good start! Kane will surely be there for the long haul.
		
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If Kane hadn't had his head turned by the City interest earlier in the season perhaps Spurs would have challenged Chelsea for third spot.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Agree with much of what you say, Phil, apart from Spurs being miles away from the top three. Since Conte’s appointment  I think the stats show they are very much up there with Chelsea. The key for them now is both keeping him, and backing him in the transfer market.
		
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I don’t see Spurs getting beyond 4th - they have a decent first 11 - mainly rely on the front two but the squad is very thin in regards quality. 

Spurs will get a few players in ( prob need to keep Kulasevski ) but still will be fighting it out for 4th


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## Canary_Yellow (May 23, 2022)

arnieboy said:



			If Kane hadn't had his head turned by the City interest earlier in the season perhaps Spurs would have challenged Chelsea for third spot.
		
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Perhaps, but then again maybe Nuno would still be in charge and Spurs would have finished 6th with no Conte? Too many variables to say, but without doubt, a settled summer with Conte in charge will leave them better placed for success next season that they were in August 2021. 

It would be good to have more teams competing at the top of the table, not suggesting it's realistic for Spurs to compete with Man City and Liverpool for the title, but it would be great if it happened. I'm a neutral in all this so as far as I'm concerned the more competitive the league, the better!


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## Tashyboy (May 23, 2022)

Liverpool already made a good signing for next season Carvalho from Fulham.


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## Tashyboy (May 23, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Perhaps, but then again maybe Nuno would still be in charge and Spurs would have finished 6th with no Conte? Too many variables to say, but without doubt, a settled summer with Conte in charge will leave them better placed for success next season that they were in August 2021.

It would be good to have more teams competing at the top of the table, not suggesting it's realistic for Spurs to compete with Man City and Liverpool for the title, but it would be great if it happened. I'm a neutral in all this so as far as I'm concerned the more competitive the league, the better!
		
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I totally agree. Of all the teams that have shocked me this season re the Prem League it is Chelsea. They got to Two finals in which they were beat on penalties. Fine margins there. But they were top of the league for 70 days and just seemed to fall off a cliff. 
I agree this season has been a fantastic two horse race at the finish but I thought it would be three. Be interesting to see how next year pans out.
Ave a serious feeling that some clubs are going to have big clear outs. That aside, wonder what some folks thoughts are of this. Another angle on the table never lies.
https://content.assets.pressassocia...e030f6-f541-4943-9c7b-584561315abb.jpg?w=1251


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## Stuart_C (May 23, 2022)

Well done City👏👏

Proud of my team and what they've acheived this season and still in with a chance of lifting Europe's finest trophy, i'll take that.

Not too shabby considering they had the 4th best defence and squad.😉


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## Stuart_C (May 23, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Was sad to see Burnley finally drop. They've lacked serious investment which is whats required these days to maintain in the Prem and yet stayed for over 12 years, hope they bounce back!
		
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I wasnt. Good riddance to their thuggery and alehouse football.

I totally understand why teams play that way initially to stay in the PL but they had enough time to evolve and haven't.


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## Canary_Yellow (May 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I wasnt. Good riddance to their thuggery and alehouse football.

I totally understand why teams play that way initially to stay in the PL but they had enough time to evolve and haven't.
		
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With the budget they had, successful evolution of style would have been very hard to achieve.

Good news is though, that their style of ultra direct football is on the way out. Not many championship sides play that way, perhaps none do at all. It's more a direct style in the same way Brentford are direct, getting forward in numbers with pace, using long throws, defending well and hitting on the break, playing into the channels. None of Fulham, Bournemouth and Forest / Huddersfield will be relying on punting it up field and hoping to win the second ball.


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## Stuart_C (May 23, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			With the budget they had, successful evolution of style would have been very hard to achieve.

Good news is though, that their style of ultra direct football is on the way out. Not many championship sides play that way, perhaps none do at all. It's more a direct style in the same way Brentford are direct, getting forward in numbers with pace, using long throws, defending well and hitting on the break, playing into the channels. None of Fulham, Bournemouth and Forest / Huddersfield will be relying on punting it up field and hoping to win the second ball.
		
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I disagree. See how much Palace have improved under Viera after spending relatively little money, It can be done. 

Palace for me have been the most improved side i've seen live and on the box this season. The transformation from Hodgson's dirge he served up is impressive.

Hope Huddersfield come up.


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## Aztecs27 (May 23, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			The playoffs always deliver brilliant entertainment 👍👍👍
		
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If by entertainment you mean heart attack inducing stress levels...then yes, you're right. 

And have been stressed out since worried whether or not I'll be able to get a ticket for Wembley on Sunday.


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## Canary_Yellow (May 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I disagree. See how much Palace have improved under Viera after spending relatively little money, It can be done.

Palace for me have been the most improved side i've seen live and on the box this season. The transformation from Hodgson's dirge he served up is impressive.

Hope Huddersfield come up.
		
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I thought you might disagree. But it's your prerogative, it doesn't matter if our views are different. I'm coming at it from the perspective of a supporter of a struggling side, with no cash to spend (not meaningful cash anyway), and Palace's transfer spend is a lot more than we could ever dream of. 

I'm not sure Palace is a fair comparison though, for two reasons:

1. They played conservative football under hodgson, but their players were good enough to play a different style, Burnley's I'm not so sure are. But I might be wrong about Palace, would need one of the resident supporters to give a view. Agree fully Vieira has done a great job, but not so sure that's comparable to Burnley changing their style.
2. Palace spent over £75m this summer. Burnley have spent about the same amount over 4 seasons on a gross basis, and on a net basis, 7 seasons.

EDITED: to make sure Stuart didn't think I was being rude, which I wasn't meaning to be but wasn't sure it was across as I intended.


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## Canary_Yellow (May 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			If by entertainment you mean heart attack inducing stress levels...then yes, you're right.

And have been stressed out since worried whether or not I'll be able to get a ticket for Wembley on Sunday.
		
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I remember the same when we were in them in 2015. Had the stress of playing Ipswich in the semis, then a week of panic trying to get tickets, but my goodness was it worth it....!


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## Stuart_C (May 23, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



*I would have been gobsmacked if you hadn't disagreed. But it's your prerogative, it doesn't matter if our views are different.*

I'm not sure Palace is a fair comparison though, for two reasons:

1. They played conservative football under hodgson, but their players were good enough to play a different style, Burnley's I'm not so sure are. But I might be wrong about Palace, would need one of the resident supporters to give a view. Agree fully Vieira has done a great job, but not so sure that's comparable to Burnley changing their style.
2. Palace spent over £75m this summer. Burnley have spent about the same amount over 4 seasons on a gross basis, and on a net basis, 7 seasons.
		
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Of course, that's the whole idea of a forum/debate. 

Palace was an example of how it can be done. Burnley have had enough time and money to gradually change their style and they never.

Teams dont have to spend £60m on each player just to change style although it becomes easier with better quality.

I wont miss Burnley thats for sure.


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## Canary_Yellow (May 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Of course, that's the whole idea of a forum/debate.

Palace was an example of how it can be done. Burnley have had enough time and money to gradually change their style and they never.

Teams dont have to spend £60m on each player just to change style although it becomes easier with better quality.

I wont miss Burnley thats for sure.
		
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Sorry, I changed how I worded that as I realised it didn't come across as I meant it to. I agree about not missing burnley, but i think they would have had to have gone down first before they could reinvent their style. Maybe they'll do that now?


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## Stuart_C (May 23, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I thought you might disagree. But it's your prerogative, it doesn't matter if our views are different. I'm coming at it from the perspective of a supporter of a struggling side, with no cash to spend (not meaningful cash anyway), and Palace's transfer spend is a lot more than we could ever dream of.

I'm not sure Palace is a fair comparison though, for two reasons:

1. They played conservative football under hodgson, but their players were good enough to play a different style, Burnley's I'm not so sure are. But I might be wrong about Palace, would need one of the resident supporters to give a view. Agree fully Vieira has done a great job, but not so sure that's comparable to Burnley changing their style.
2. Palace spent over £75m this summer. Burnley have spent about the same amount over 4 seasons on a gross basis, and on a net basis, 7 seasons.

EDITED: to make sure Stuart didn't think I was being rude, which I wasn't meaning to be but wasn't sure it was across as I intended.
		
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I understood your initial point, no issues from me pal.


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## Stuart_C (May 23, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Sorry, I changed how I worded that as I realised it didn't come across as I meant it to. I agree about not missing burnley, but i think they would have had to have gone down first before they could reinvent their style. Maybe they'll do that now?
		
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Not for me. I dont have any experience of championship football so i'm guessing here but I'm thinking along the lines of its easier to change  season on season with the strong finance's of the PL instead of goin in the Championship where it seems a lot more competitive. 

Burnley were an established team in the PL too.


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## Canary_Yellow (May 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Not for me. I dont have any experience of championship football so i'm guessing here but I'm thinking along the lines of its easier to change  season on season with the strong finance's of the PL instead of goin in the Championship where it seems a lot more competitive.

Burnley were an established team in the PL too.
		
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I don't think the PL money is as much of a cash cow as it used to be. Seems to me that the vast majority of the TV money just goes on the wage bill for smaller clubs. Our owners don't put anything in, everything we spend is generated from football revenue streams and the net effect is we don't have a budget capable of competing in the PL for a sustained period of time. I gather Burnley are similar.

I don't know how this compares to other sides in the league and how they get / generate cash, but to me it feels the PL cash alone isn't enough in the way it might have been 20 years ago, rich owners are required. Seems to be the case in the Championship too, you need one of the following:

1. Rich owners (but that doesn't guarantee success)
2. Parachute payments
3. Loads of luck.


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## Stuart_C (May 23, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I don't think the PL money is as much of a cash cow as it used to be. Seems to me that the vast majority of the TV money just goes on the wage bill for smaller clubs. *Our owners don't put anything in, everything we spend is generated from football revenue streams* and the net effect is we don't have a budget capable of competing in the PL for a sustained period of time. I gather Burnley are similar.

I don't know how this compares to other sides in the league and how they get / generate cash, but to me it feels the PL cash alone isn't enough in the way it might have been 20 years ago, rich owners are required. Seems to be the case in the Championship too, you need one of the following:

1. Rich owners (but that doesn't guarantee success)
2. Parachute payments
3. Loads of luck.
		
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Just like our owners work. 

Football clubs spend way too much of their income on players wages, its criminal. If clubs are run with a sustainable business plan  they'll do well with the PL funds they get.

Unfortunately FFP in its current guise isnt fit for purpose.


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## BiMGuy (May 23, 2022)

Happy to have stayed up on the last day. We need a decent summer in the transfer market and hope that Marsch has some better tactics up his sleeve than he employed since taking over. Otherwise we’re in for another poor season.

Pleased to see Burnley go down. I would have loved Everton to have joined them, but you can’t have everything.

I’d prefer to see Forest back in the PL over the dog botherers next season.

I’m also happy to continue my support as a Telly Clapper given the sheer number of knuckle draggers who go to games.


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## Bdill93 (May 23, 2022)

I will note - I was glad to see Watford go down! They took 6 points from Villa this year  Serious bogey team!


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## Orikoru (May 23, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Agree with much of what you say, Phil, apart from Spurs being miles away from the top three. Since Conte’s appointment  I think the stats show they are very much up there with Chelsea. The key for them now is both keeping him, and backing him in the transfer market.
		
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You've saved me the effort of saying exactly this, cheers, haha. We've only finished 3 points behind them in the end, and with the ownership cloud hanging over them it wouldn't be a massive overhaul for us to overtake them.


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## fundy (May 23, 2022)

Good to see Arsenal maximising asset value again lol

Having sold Mavropanos for pennies were now reportedly offering Saliba up for 30m. The same 30m we paid for him as a promising youngster 3 years ago, never picked him for a game, and then loaned him out to be the best young player in France this season. And the control freak would rather break even on him than integrate him into the side despite him being a far far better player now


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			You've saved me the effort of saying exactly this, cheers, haha. We've only finished 3 points behind them in the end, and with the ownership cloud hanging over them it wouldn't be a massive overhaul for us to overtake them.
		
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Spurs being that close was more down to the issues Chelsea have had since the ownership sale 

Levy and Spurs will continue the same vein for Conte - some mid level signings with the manager expected to over perform


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## fundy (May 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spurs being that close was more down to the issues Chelsea have had since the ownership sale

Levy and Spurs will continue the same vein for Conte - some mid level signings with the manager expected to over perform
		
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not sure about that, if and i think its a big if Conte is still going to be there next year, and with only 1 year left on his contract, pretty sure they have no choice but to back him in the tfr market if they are ever going to do so, and if he doesnt receive those assurances i expect hell be saying arriverderci sooner rather than later


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## Billysboots (May 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			not sure about that, if and i think its a big if Conte is still going to be there next year, and with only 1 year left on his contract, pretty sure they have no choice but to back him in the tfr market if they are ever going to do so, and if he doesnt receive those assurances i expect hell be saying arriverderci sooner rather than later
		
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Agreed. Spurs are going to do exceptionally well to secure the services of a better manager once Conte is gone, so if ever Levy is going to loosen the purse strings, now is absolutely the time to do it.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			not sure about that, if and i think its a big if Conte is still going to be there next year, and with only 1 year left on his contract, pretty sure they have no choice but to back him in the tfr market if they are ever going to do so, and if he doesnt receive those assurances i expect hell be saying arriverderci sooner rather than later
		
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Until they pay off that stadium it’s always going to be a big risk to loosen up the strings too much - he will get some level of backing but imo prob just enough to keep them around top 4

In other news the Man City Parade is starting

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528767763740872704


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## fundy (May 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Until they pay off that stadium it’s always going to be a big risk to loosen up the strings too much - he will get some level of backing but imo prob just enough to keep them around top 4

In other news the Man City Parade is starting


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528768589385416706

Click to expand...


heard that somewhere before


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## Liverpoolphil (May 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			heard that somewhere before 

Click to expand...

Yep - the similarities will be remarkable 

It’s part of the game when building a brand new stadium it seems


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## larmen (May 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Congrats to City

Heck of season , was always an uphill battle from Jan but we got close with some stunning football this year but fell just short again - Villa teased the situation a little

Both domestic cups and second is a success this season and hopefully round it off with big ears on Saturday

Last couple of weeks from some teams has been a bit mental

Chelsea - the ownership situation seemed to have an affect on the field but losing some big players in the summer and no idea what their new owner will do


Spurs - said months ago that Utd should have got Conte when he was free and they will regret that , he will do ok at Spurs and maybe get a cup but still miles away from the top three

Arsenal - just blew it , some great youngsters , but a lack of steel and experience cost them - Arteta really needs a big move forward next year

West Ham - was a great season for them , and Moyes should keep them as a solid top 8 team - Rice should have won Young POTY

Man Utd - Ten Hag has a hell of a job on his hands.  I’m not sure where he can start , needs a huge overhaul of that squad but first need to get a proper DoF in

Everton - where to start , managed to squeeze out of the relegation places but the current celebrations mask a lot of issues within the club - there is a shadow hanging over them with their Covid “losses” , they can’t spend much more money and they have a squad full of sub standard players. It’s going to be another long season next year for them imo and wouldn’t surprise me to see Lampard gone by Jan ?

Some great seasons for teams like Palace and Brighton - playing really good football and also to Brentford

Burnley got what they deserved when they sacked Dyche

As for the fans going onto the pitch - needs to start with stadium bans , games behind closed doors , suspended point deductions and then points actually being deducted- that should stop them
		
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Can Chelsea do anything? As far as I understand they can’t extend contracts or sign new players. And what I don’t know is if they actually have/get a license for next year.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 23, 2022)

larmen said:



			Can Chelsea do anything? As far as I understand they can’t extend contracts or sign new players. And what I don’t know is if they actually have/get a license for next year.
		
Click to expand...

Has to be done by May 31st I think for the license. They are pushing it close.


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## Blue in Munich (May 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Has to be done by May 31st I think for the license. They are pushing it close.
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea aren't pushing it close, the people of whom we cannot speak are causing the issues.  I went yesterday thinking it could well be the last match I see as I don't trust those in whose hands it is to get it done.  Not sure I can say any more, if indeed I can say that much.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Chelsea aren't pushing it close, the people of whom we cannot speak are causing the issues.  I went yesterday thinking it could well be the last match I see as I don't trust those in whose hands it is to get it done.  Not sure I can say any more, if indeed I can say that much.
		
Click to expand...

It was a general 'they'. There is no benefit to Chelsea for this to drag on. The whole issue of player contracts and signings is all on hold, as you know. Resolve it within a week and little harm done. Any more and you could be missing out.

According to the BBC website as Abramovich has a Portuguese passport they also need to agree to the terms of the deal


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## Yorkhacker (May 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			According to the BBC website as Abramovich has a Portuguese passport they also need to agree to the terms of the deal 

Click to expand...

Crazy isn't it. You'd think they (the government & the people handling the sale) would have known that and consulted with the Portuguese government when the sale process started. Hasn't Abramovich also got an Israeli passport. Do they need to agree to the sale too?


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## Bazzatron (May 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It was a general 'they'. There is no benefit to Chelsea for this to drag on. The whole issue of player contracts and signings is all on hold, as you know. Resolve it within a week and little harm done. Any more and you could be missing out.

According to the BBC website as Abramovich has a Portuguese passport they also need to agree to the terms of the deal 

Click to expand...

He needs to be careful, he'll be playing for Wolves next season.


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## DaveR (May 24, 2022)

I'm hoping Saints sign a new manager before anyone else. Ralph is taking us backwards. Appreciate all his efforts but time to move on.


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## Pin-seeker (May 24, 2022)

DaveR said:



			I'm hoping Saints sign a new manager before anyone else. Ralph is taking us backwards. Appreciate all his efforts but time to move on.
		
Click to expand...

Where in the table would you realistically expect to finish?


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## Swango1980 (May 24, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Where in the table would you realistically expect to finish?
		
Click to expand...

I reckon he is more concerned with the end of season form, rather than final position in the table. Since 5th March, Southampton have had 10 defeats, 2 draws and 1 win. The win was versus Arsenal. Some annoying defeats amongst those 10, like a 2-1 home loss to Watford, 6-0 home drubbing by Chelsea and also losing to teams like Burnley and Brentford. Even the 2-1 defeat at home to Liverpool must have been frustrating. Going 1-0 with a great goal, but allowing Liverpool's reserve team to dictate the game thereafter. Having watched that game, they seemed to have no fight or confidence that they could win 1st or second balls, and it seemed inevitable Liverpool would win. You'd expect some other mid table type teams to at least put up a battle.

So, I'm guessing a Southampton fan might be worried that sort of form continues into next season. Sure, it is a chance to start afresh, but you wonder why the coach has seemingly been unable to pick up the players at the back end of the season, and what happens if they start poorly next season?


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## Orikoru (May 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I reckon he is more concerned with the end of season form, rather than final position in the table. Since 5th March, Southampton have had 10 defeats, 2 draws and 1 win. The win was versus Arsenal. Some annoying defeats amongst those 10, like a 2-1 home loss to Watford, 6-0 home drubbing by Chelsea and also losing to teams like Burnley and Brentford. Even the 2-1 defeat at home to Liverpool must have been frustrating. Going 1-0 with a great goal, but allowing Liverpool's reserve team to dictate the game thereafter. Having watched that game, they seemed to have no fight or confidence that they could win 1st or second balls, and it seemed inevitable Liverpool would win. You'd expect some other mid table type teams to at least put up a battle.

So, I'm guessing a Southampton fan might be worried that sort of form continues into next season. Sure, it is a chance to start afresh, but you wonder why the coach has seemingly been unable to pick up the players at the back end of the season, and what happens if they start poorly next season?
		
Click to expand...

They were exactly the same last season though, weirdly. A lot of people predicted them to go down because of their terrible form at the back end of last season - and then losing Ings. And having checked our season predictions a fair few predicted Hasenhuttl to be the first manager to go. But he got them playing again for a while. He'll have to do that again, and quickly.


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## DaveR (May 24, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Where in the table would you realistically expect to finish?
		
Click to expand...

8th to 12th is realistic and achievable. We won only 1 of our last 14 games 🤦


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## Orikoru (May 24, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529084885050204160
Five right backs - a new record!

I still can't believe Dier isn't in. He's just been so much better than Maguire it's unreal.


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## Voyager EMH (May 24, 2022)

Leicester City's last 4 Premiership games,

Played 4, Won 3, Drawn 1, Lost 0. (1:1 draw at Chelsea)

Goal difference +10 in 4 games!

Shame about the other 34 games, eh?


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## BiMGuy (May 24, 2022)

How is Maguire anywhere near the England team?


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## Orikoru (May 24, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			How is Maguire anywhere near the England team?
		
Click to expand...

He must be blackmailing Southgate somehow at this point.


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## pokerjoke (May 24, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			How is Maguire anywhere near the England team?
		
Click to expand...

He makes a great cup of tea.
Scandalous 
What message does it send out?
One is for sure ,he does play better for England than Utd.


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## Orikoru (May 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			He makes a great cup of tea.
Scandalous
What message does it send out?
*One is for sure ,he does play better for England than Utd*.
		
Click to expand...

I think that's only because he's had Rice, or Henderson, or Phillips in front of him, whereas Man Utd have.. well...


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## Bdill93 (May 24, 2022)

Decent enough squad

Feels a bit thin on the ground for some reason!


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## Swango1980 (May 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think that's only because he's had Rice, or Henderson, or Phillips in front of him, whereas Man Utd have.. well...
		
Click to expand...

Well, Southgate has picked Rice and Phillips, so maybe that answers your question? And, has Maguire let Southgate down yet? If Southgate could pick VVD, then there'd be no contest. However, I've never been fully convinced on Dier's ability as a centre back. Granted, I do not watch every Spurs game , and so maybe he has played brilliantly and gone quietly under the radar (to non Spurs fans)?


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## Orikoru (May 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, Southgate has picked Rice and Phillips, so maybe that answers your question? And, has Maguire let Southgate down yet? If Southgate could pick VVD, then there'd be no contest. However, I've never been fully convinced on Dier's ability as a centre back. Granted, I do not watch every Spurs game , and so maybe he has played brilliantly and gone quietly under the radar (to non Spurs fans)?
		
Click to expand...

Dier has been excellent this season. The few games he missed, we struggled because he organises our defence in a way nobody else does. i.e. Romero and Davies also played better when Dier was in. I would even argue that Dier should be in ahead of Coady let alone Maguire. 

I hate these arguments that 'so-and-so has never let England down' - you hear the same from Pickford's defenders. The fact is players should be chosen on form and recent ability, and that all comes from their club games. I would also argue that 95% of international games are against worse teams that a typical Premier League game. It's easier for Pickford or Maguire to look solid in and England shirt if they only face four attacks from third division standard players. That shouldn't preclude us from wanting our team to be the best it can be.


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## Blue in Munich (May 24, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Crazy isn't it. You'd think they *(the government & the people handling the sale)* would have known that and consulted with the Portuguese government when the sale process started. Hasn't Abramovich also got an Israeli passport. Do they need to agree to the sale too?
		
Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61559342

Who knows?  Of the two parties mentioned, I'd have every faith in one of them getting it right; the other has ably demonstrated that it couldn't organise a piss up... oh, hang on, it *can* organise a piss up but it doesn't realise it's a piss up, and whether or not it went to the piss up...  I mean it's not like they've known the deadline since the sanctions were imposed. 

I'm fully expecting to have my Saturdays free going forward; at least that way things can only get better.


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## pauljames87 (May 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529084885050204160
Five right backs - a new record!

I still can't believe Dier isn't in. He's just been so much better than Maguire it's unreal.
		
Click to expand...

Is tripper even fit?

Glad to see Bowen rewarded for his fine form.


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## fundy (May 24, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Decent enough squad

Feels a bit thin on the ground for some reason!
		
Click to expand...


feels very unbalanced to me, lack of out and out left backs, 3 central holding midfielders when he likes to play 2 at a time and only one striker to cover Kane 

but bundles or right backs and wide attacking players


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## Swango1980 (May 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Dier has been excellent this season. The few games he missed, we struggled because he organises our defence in a way nobody else does. i.e. Romero and Davies also played better when Dier was in. I would even argue that Dier should be in ahead of Coady let alone Maguire.

I hate these arguments that 'so-and-so has never let England down' - you hear the same from Pickford's defenders. The fact is players should be chosen on form and recent ability, and that all comes from their club games. I would also argue that 95% of international games are against worse teams that a typical Premier League game. It's easier for Pickford or Maguire to look solid in and England shirt if they only face four attacks from third division standard players. That shouldn't preclude us from wanting our team to be the best it can be.
		
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Has Pickford not done well at club level to continue to be selected? I'm sure Southgate, or any manager, have lots of criteria when selecting the squad. Not just how well each player has done between international windows. I'm sure managers get a good idea on what players are like in the dressing room, and whether they are a good or bad influence. They'll also want to show some sort of loyalty towards many players, or should I say trust. In that sense, the players are likely to perform better knowing the manager has faith in them. I'm sure it would be extremely destabilising if a manager just picked players purely based on form, and thus had many player changes each time England met up. If Kane went through a bad patch of a month or 2, the manager would have to drop him simply based on form, whilst they might then feel obliged to pick Welbeck because he had a purple patch.


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## Orikoru (May 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Has Pickford not done well at club level to continue to be selected? I'm sure Southgate, or any manager, have lots of criteria when selecting the squad. Not just how well each player has done between international windows. I'm sure managers get a good idea on what players are like in the dressing room, and whether they are a good or bad influence. They'll also want to show some sort of loyalty towards many players, or should I say trust. In that sense, the players are likely to perform better knowing the manager has faith in them. I'm sure it would be extremely destabilising if a manager just picked players purely based on form, and thus had many player changes each time England met up. If Kane went through a bad patch of a month or 2, the manager would have to drop him simply based on form, whilst they might then feel obliged to pick Welbeck because he had a purple patch.
		
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Sorry, when was the last time Maguire played well??


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## Bdill93 (May 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			feels very unbalanced to me, lack of out and out left backs, 3 central holding midfielders when he likes to play 2 at a time and only one striker to cover Kane

but bundles or right backs and wide attacking players
		
Click to expand...

I thought the same about Strikers.. but if we really are only playing 1, which is fine, we dont need more than 1 other option in my opinion.

Trippier is obviously seen as a LB to Southgate but I agree, lack of talent at LB so strong that he just drafts in the great RB's and assumes theyll do a job.

6 in midfield is enough. Rice has the talent to hold by himself, frustrates me that we dont just play the 1 of him or Phillips. Who's the other holder there? 

Wide players - I sit and think... pretty average if im honest. 

Foden isnt as good for England as he is for City (so far anyway) if we can get him playing to those levels id be thrilled. What a player he is. 
Grealish - bang average year.. if not quite poor, but I dont wish to come across as a bitter villa fan. 
Sterling - great for England
Saka - Hot and cold but when in form, great. 
Bowen - deserves his chance!


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## Bdill93 (May 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry, when was the last time Maguire played well?? 

Click to expand...

The Euros


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## Stuart_C (May 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Has Pickford not done well at club level to continue to be selected? I'm sure Southgate, or any manager, have lots of criteria when selecting the squad. Not just how well each player has done between international windows. I'm sure managers get a good idea on what players are like in the dressing room, and whether they are a good or bad influence. They'll also want to show some sort of loyalty towards many players, or should I say trust. In that sense, the players are likely to perform better knowing the manager has faith in them. I'm sure it would be extremely destabilising if a manager just picked players purely based on form, and thus had many player changes each time England met up. If Kane went through a bad patch of a month or 2, the manager would have to drop him simply based on form, whilst they might then feel obliged to pick Welbeck because he had a purple patch.
		
Click to expand...

Southgate made a fool of himself since  he dropped TAA. 

Personally, No problem with him not being picked but to justify it as down to poor form but has since picked players in worse form it makes it a laughable decision.

Not very consistent.


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## Stuart_C (May 24, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61559342

Who knows?  Of the two parties mentioned, I'd have every faith in one of them getting it right; the other has ably demonstrated that it couldn't organise a piss up... oh, hang on, it *can* organise a piss up but it doesn't realise it's a piss up, and whether or not it went to the piss up...  I mean it's not like they've known the deadline since the sanctions were imposed. 

I'm fully expecting to have my Saturdays free going forward; at least that way things can only get better.
		
Click to expand...

Because it wasnt a piss up? Honesty and integrity.....


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## fundy (May 24, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I thought the same about Strikers.. but if we really are only playing 1, which is fine, we dont need more than 1 other option in my opinion.

Trippier is obviously seen as a LB to Southgate but I agree, lack of talent at LB so strong that he just drafts in the great RB's and assumes theyll do a job.

6 in midfield is enough. Rice has the talent to hold by himself, frustrates me that we dont just play the 1 of him or Phillips. Who's the other holder there?

Wide players - I sit and think... pretty average if im honest.

Foden isnt as good for England as he is for City (so far anyway) if we can get him playing to those levels id be thrilled. What a player he is.
Grealish - bang average year.. if not quite poor, but I dont wish to come across as a bitter villa fan.
Sterling - great for England
Saka - Hot and cold but when in form, great.
Bowen - deserves his chance!
		
Click to expand...


Its a squad for 3 games, if either picks up a knock hes either not got a striker on the bench, calling one up or using Sterling there I guess
For me Id play Rice and Bellingham, not sure hes a holding midfielder as such though. Knowing Southgate he wants to play Rice and Philips and has no direct cover for them
Call me old fashioned but rather a left footer at left back, especially if we play 5 at the back! Accept that his first 2 choices are injured but surely someone like Mitchell should get a chance
Foden and Saka out wide for me but expect Sterling to play lol


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## Bdill93 (May 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its a squad for 3 games, if either picks up a knock hes either not got a striker on the bench, calling one up or using Sterling there I guess
For me Id play Rice and Bellingham, not sure hes a holding midfielder as such though. Knowing Southgate he wants to play Rice and Philips and has no direct cover for them
C*all me old fashioned but rather a left footer at left back*, especially if we play 5 at the back! Accept that his first 2 choices are injured but surely someone like Mitchell should get a chance
Foden and Saka out wide for me but expect Sterling to play lol
		
Click to expand...

Im with you here! Shame we dont have many options in this team - fingers crossed Chilwell is fit for the WC 

My 11 from this squad would be:

       Ramsdale
TAA Stones White Justin
          Rice
Bellingham Mount
Saka   Kane   Foden


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## fundy (May 24, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Im with you here! Shame we dont have many options in this team - fingers crossed Chilwell is fit for the WC

My 11 from this squad would be:

       Ramsdale
TAA Stones White Justin
          Rice
Bellingham Mount
Saka   Kane   Foden
		
Click to expand...


too many Arsenal players lol! hard to make much of a case for Ramsdale or White based on recent form


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## Bdill93 (May 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			too many Arsenal players lol! hard to make much of a case for Ramsdale or White based on recent form
		
Click to expand...

For me, Ramsdale is the best keeper overall and thats why I include him. I think Pickford has been great for England but I just cant choose him over Ramsdale after this season.

White is a better footballer than Coady. But I was a bit stuck with the second CB. Id happily play Tomori instead


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## fundy (May 24, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			For me, Ramsdale is the best keeper overall and thats why I include him. I think Pickford has been great for England but I just cant choose him over Ramsdale after this season.

White is a better footballer than Coady. But I was a bit stuck with the second CB. Id happily play Tomori instead
		
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dont overly believe the press Ramsdale has had this season, he started well but has regressed to his level pretty quickly, despite the odd showy save, for me Pope is head and shoulders the best of those 3 keepers (an this years stats tend to support that). Would love to see Tomori and even Guehi, we may well do if Southgate perseveres with 5 at the back


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## Swango1980 (May 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry, when was the last time Maguire played well?? 

Click to expand...

As I said, I'm pretty sure he has done well for England. Can't see anyone else coming in and making a significant improved difference. Clearly, at club level, the entire team has been horrific. He is up against many of the best professional football players in the world, and has had pretty much zero protection. Media and fans love bashing Maguire the most, probably because of his transfer fee, he is English and Captain. To be honest, although I agree he has not been good at all, the criticism has become tiresome. It is pretty obvious the whole structure of the team, and the attitude of his team mates is completely wrong. If Southgate dropped him, I'd have no complaints. And, if Dier really has been that good, then fair enough if he got a call up. However, I also can see why he chooses to select him. Problem is, so many fans have taken so much pleasure in mocking him during the season, that many continue that attitude in slagging him off when he gets selected for England, and boo him when he plays for his country.

What I do agree is that, if Maguire's club form continues, then it may only take one or 2 bad performances for England before he is dropped. No doubt Southgate will be hoping Ten Hag solidifies the defence at Man Utd, with Maguire at the heart of it, so the boo boys can focus on something else.


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## Blue in Munich (May 24, 2022)

Arf!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61563153


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## fundy (May 24, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Arf!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61563153

View attachment 42706

Click to expand...

Also its going to rain everywhere isnt it


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## Orikoru (May 24, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Im with you here! Shame we dont have many options in this team - fingers crossed Chilwell is fit for the WC

My 11 from this squad would be:

       Ramsdale
TAA Stones White Justin
          Rice
Bellingham Mount
Saka   Kane   Foden
		
Click to expand...

Pope
Trent - Stones - Tomori - James
Rice - Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​Or if it's three CBs then Walker comes in for Grealish I guess.


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## GB72 (May 24, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Arf!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61563153

View attachment 42706

Click to expand...

Most accurate bit of BBC reporting in years


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## pauljames87 (May 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



Pope
Trent - Stones - Tomori - James
Rice - Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​Or if it's three CBs then Walker comes in for Grealish I guess.
		
Click to expand...

That's the kind of team you want to watch isn't it.. outstanding attacking talent


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## Lord Tyrion (May 24, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			For me, Ramsdale is the best keeper overall and thats why I include him. I think Pickford has been great for England but I just cant choose him over Ramsdale after this season.

White is a better footballer than Coady. But I was a bit stuck with the second CB. Id happily play Tomori instead
		
Click to expand...

Did you see the Arsenal v Newcastle game? Ramsdale was a bag of nerves. I think you can make an argument for Pope over Pickford but not Ramsdale. 

Saying that, Pickford has been in great form at the end of the season and yes, he has never let England down. Sorry for those who don't like that but it's true. Had he been in poor form then that argument is reduced but he has helped keep Everton up this year, tail end in particular.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 24, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Arf!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61563153

View attachment 42706

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529076537282252800


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## Liverpoolphil (May 24, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528813165034844162
That’s one way to stop pitch invasions


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## Liverbirdie (May 24, 2022)

Go 'ed, Jurgen.


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2022)

Chelsea sold for 4.25 billion 

What I don't get is how is Chelsea so expensive if Roman isn't getting anything? Surely prices only rise so high as that's what the current owners want to walk away with after costs etc 

If he isn't getting a penny couldn't chelsea have been sold for a lot less?

Anyways least that mess is sorted


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Chelsea sold for 4.25 billion

What I don't get is how is Chelsea so expensive if Roman isn't getting anything? Surely prices only rise so high as that's what the current owners want to walk away with after costs etc

If he isn't getting a penny couldn't chelsea have been sold for a lot less?

Anyways least that mess is sorted
		
Click to expand...

It's a staggering amount which ever way you look at it. Where can you recover your money and grow it when you have spent that much? It makes the £305m spent to buy Newcastle look like an absolute steal.

I agree with your thinking, I don't get it 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (May 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Chelsea sold for 4.25 billion

What I don't get is how is Chelsea so expensive if Roman isn't getting anything? Surely prices only rise so high as that's what the current owners want to walk away with after costs etc

If he isn't getting a penny couldn't chelsea have been sold for a lot less?

Anyways least that mess is sorted
		
Click to expand...


More about the demand and how many were prepared to pay an eye watering amount for it (the highest ever for a sports team?). Location a massive part of that demand and the price suitors are prepared to pay


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## Jensen (May 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			More about the demand and how many were prepared to pay an eye watering amount for it (the highest ever for a sports team?). Location a massive part of that demand and the price suitors are prepared to pay
		
Click to expand...

Made even more bizarre, when the owners don’t fully own the ground.
Believe BlueInMunich made reference to the fans buying a share pre Abramovich!!!!!


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## fundy (May 25, 2022)

I see were setting the bar high, Elneny who was deemed surplus to requirements earlier in the season has now signed a new contract. What is it with us and central midfielders and this sort of contract renewal


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## Yorkhacker (May 25, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Made even more bizarre, when the owners don’t fully own the ground.
Believe BlueInMunich made reference to the fans buying a share pre Abramovich!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

 If anyone's interested, it's all here;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Pitch_Owners


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			If anyone's interested, it's all here;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Pitch_Owners

Click to expand...

Fantastic idea. We really do need this level of protection on all clubs in the football league.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Made even more bizarre, when the owners don’t fully own the ground.
Believe BlueInMunich made reference to the fans buying a share pre Abramovich!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

If they are not buying prime London real estate then what are they paying the billions for? I'd love to hear their reasoning.


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Made even more bizarre, when the owners don’t fully own the ground.
Believe BlueInMunich made reference to the fans buying a share pre Abramovich!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Well we dont own our stadium yet our owners believe we are worth more than Newcastle

It's like they paid very little for the club, used the sale of Upton park to clear the debts . Got given a stadium for free yet somehow they believe the club's worth 350 million? It's just insane


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If they are not buying prime London real estate then what are they paying the billions for? I'd love to hear their reasoning.
		
Click to expand...

TV money in the billions - and it will only grow!

Money to be made in football - I know ive read and heard a lot about the Glazers taking money out of United for example?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			TV money in the billions - and it will only grow!

Money to be made in football - I know ive read and heard a lot about the Glazers taking money out of United for example?
		
Click to expand...

But that much? I go back to Newcastle, as it is the most recent. £305m for a PL team with a stadium already built and needing minimal money spending on it. Chelsea have moved the decimal point and added another 1/3. Southampton sold for about £100m this year.

They will have to be making whopping amounts to pay back banks, investors etc on that scale.


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			But that much? I go back to Newcastle, as it is the most recent. £305m for a PL team with a stadium already built and needing minimal money spending on it. Chelsea have moved the decimal point and added another 1/3. Southampton sold for about £100m this year.

They will have to be making whopping amounts to pay back banks, investors etc on that scale.
		
Click to expand...

But 

1) Chelsea are recently successful and have CL money coming in too 
2) Globally better known and more marketable
3) Can place top 4 without significant investment needed in the playing squad. 

City have spent roughly 2 billion so far just trying to become relevant, and they've done well doing so. (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/soc...h money have Manchester,the club back in 2008.) 

Newcastle will cost more in todays money I imagine to develop a playing squad and infrastructure to compete at the highest level.

Why not invest it all in one go, buy something ready made to compete at all levels - and then wait for the money to come in?


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## Yorkhacker (May 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			But that much? I go back to Newcastle, as it is the most recent. £305m for a PL team with a stadium already built and needing minimal money spending on it. Chelsea have moved the decimal point and added another 1/3. Southampton sold for about £100m this year.

They will have to be making whopping amounts to pay back banks, investors etc on that scale.
		
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London prices! And West London prices at that. It would be the same in similar parts of capital cities in every part of the western world. Nearly everybody in the world knows London, Newcastle not so much.


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## Swango1980 (May 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			But that much? I go back to Newcastle, as it is the most recent. £305m for a PL team with a stadium already built and needing minimal money spending on it. Chelsea have moved the decimal point and added another 1/3. Southampton sold for about £100m this year.

They will have to be making whopping amounts to pay back banks, investors etc on that scale.
		
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Well, although Newcastle FC is a big club in the UK, it was never likely to be considered one of the so-called top 6 clubs. That phrase is meaningless in many ways, but it probably means Newcastle is not a major global brand. Chelsea is. They have won Premier League titles and featured heavily at the final stages of the Champions League. So, the money that generates is probably monumental compared to Newcastle, just in terms of sponsorship.

Chelsea's location in London should probably not be underestimated either.

Newcastle may well have been a very good deal as well? It may not have the global brand, but the owners bought a Premier League club and they have a lot of flexibility to try and grow the club. So, I think that would be quite an exciting buy for them, especially as it is essentially a one club city, and thus most of the city of Newcastle will be behind them.


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## Jimaroid (May 25, 2022)

The price will reflect, to a degree, the buyers perceived value of revenue per user they have in their fan base. A quick check and the price is about £44 per Chelsea fan worldwide. That is not a remarkable number to make back per fan over a period of years in things like advertising and merchandise. It is not dissimilar to the purchase price of, random current example, Twitter.  

They’re not buying a football club. They’re buying a business.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			But

1) Chelsea are recently successful and have CL money coming in too
2) Globally better known and more marketable
3) Can place top 4 without significant investment needed in the playing squad.

City have spent roughly 2 billion so far just trying to become relevant, and they've done well doing so. (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/soccer/news/how-much-manchester-city-spent-squad-value-transfer-fee-players/qejkb6nmxowbvkn1r4auh9r8#:~:text=How much money have Manchester,the club back in 2008.)

Newcastle will cost more in todays money I imagine to develop a playing squad and infrastructure to compete at the highest level.

Why not invest it all in one go, buy something ready made to compete at all levels - and then wait for the money to come in?
		
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All of that makes sense, as do the other replies, but it still seems OTT. The Newcastle owners for example have around £4bn spare in comparison to turn them into a global brand. During that time Chelsea will still be spending big each season, the spending does not stop. 

As you say, City have spent roughly £2bn, half the price of the Chelsea purchase price. Who has the better deal?

They do have a ready made package at Chelsea, saying that the ground needs an upgrade I believe, but all of that money needs to be given back to someone, it is not like Elon Musk has bought them with cash. The money will be from other investors, banks etc then need paying each year, on top of player expenditure, the ground upgrade that is needed. It seems out of kilter with other club sales but I guess it makes sense to the buyers.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			London prices! And West London prices at that. It would be the same in similar parts of capital cities in every part of the western world. Nearly everybody in the world knows London, Newcastle not so much.
		
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The world did not know Man City 10 years ago. Things can soon change, particularly when clubs have bottomless pockets. I'm only using Newcastle as an example as they were recently sold and the cost is out there. If I had that much to spend and wanted to buy a club that could grow and make a great return, as @Jimaroid states, it is a business, then I would be looking at someone like Leeds, West Ham, Wolves, Derby if you wanted to look long term. The potential for big growth is in those clubs.


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			All of that makes sense, as do the other replies, but it still seems OTT. The Newcastle owners for example have around £4bn spare in comparison to turn them into a global brand. During that time Chelsea will still be spending big each season, the spending does not stop.

*As you say, City have spent roughly £2bn, half the price of the Chelsea purchase price. Who has the better deal?*

They do have a ready made package at Chelsea, saying that the ground needs an upgrade I believe, but all of that money needs to be given back to someone, it is not like Elon Musk has bought them with cash. The money will be from other investors, banks etc then need paying each year, on top of player expenditure, the ground upgrade that is needed. It seems out of kilter with other club sales but I guess it makes sense to the buyers.
		
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Good question... would city pay another 2 bill for 2 champions leagues - I think yes...


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## fundy (May 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Good question... would city pay another 2 bill for 2 champions leagues - I think yes...
		
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barely gets you 20 Grealishes in the current mkt lol


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			barely gets you 20 Grealishes in the current mkt lol
		
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And what a waste of money Grealish's are!


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## fundy (May 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			And what a waste of money Grealish's are! 

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oooooh youve changed your tune


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## GB72 (May 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The world did not know Man City 10 years ago. Things can soon change, particularly when clubs have bottomless pockets. I'm only using Newcastle as an example as they were recently sold and the cost is out there. If I had that much to spend and wanted to buy a club that could grow and make a great return, as @Jimaroid states, it is a business, then I would be looking at someone like Leeds, West Ham, Wolves, Derby if you wanted to look long term. The potential for big growth is in those clubs.
		
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I am guessing that it is all much more of a gamble now though. Only the biggest and most succesful clubs will get that global recognition (history will have some bearing on that as well). With City, Liverpool, Chelsea and United already firmly established and with there being reasonable recognition for Arsenal and Spurs as well, Newcastle or any other club would need to win a lot and win regularly before making a dent on the global market. Not sure that any other club will repeat what City did and go from unknown to a global brand


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## Swango1980 (May 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			And what a waste of money Grealish's are! 

Click to expand...

I'd have happily swapped him for Pogba (even if Pogba had not been out of contract).


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			oooooh youve changed your tune 

Click to expand...


His return this year has been pretty poor considering the price tag. 3 goals and 3 assists in the league.. wow


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd have happily swapped him for Pogba (even if Pogba had not been out of contract).
		
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Actually think he'd be better for you than City


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## Swango1980 (May 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Actually think he'd be better for you than City
		
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I tend to agree. The way it stands, he'd get more success at City, but he'd be a much more important player to Utd which would probably suit his character? At City, he is just another midfielder in a large group of fantastic midfielders. Bit like when Bale went to Madrid. He always had a great chance of winning trophies, but from a personal standpoint he would always be in the shadow of Ronaldo. There'd probably have been many clubs, including Utd, where he would have been the most important player in the team. I always wonder if that could have pushed him to become a more "legendary" player? I think it is difficult to push to that level if you already have a player of that status in the same team, they say that is why Neymar left Barcelona. Sadly for him, he decided to follow the money and go to a league that really isn't taken all that seriously from a football perspective.


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## Liverbirdie (May 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, although Newcastle FC is a big club in the UK, it was never likely to be considered one of the so-called top 6 clubs. That phrase is meaningless in many ways, but it probably means Newcastle is not a major global brand. Chelsea is. They have won Premier League titles and featured heavily at the final stages of the Champions League. So, the money that generates is probably monumental compared to Newcastle, just in terms of sponsorship.

Chelsea's location in London should probably not be underestimated either.

Newcastle may well have been a very good deal as well? It may not have the global brand, but the owners bought a Premier League club and they have a lot of flexibility to try and grow the club. So, I think that would be quite an exciting buy for them, especially as it is essentially a one club city, and thus most of the city of Newcastle will be behind them.
		
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I thought Newcastle ousted Everton out of the "big 5" in the Keegan years?


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## Liverbirdie (May 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			His return this year has been pretty poor considering the price tag. 3 goals and 3 assists in the league.. wow
		
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Isn't that the same number of goals as Joel Matip?

Maybe even Joelinton!!!


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## Jensen (May 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well we dont own our stadium yet our owners believe we are worth more than Newcastle

It's like they paid very little for the club, used the sale of Upton park to clear the debts . Got given a stadium for free yet somehow they believe the club's worth 350 million? It's just insane
		
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Newcastle don’t own their ground, last I heard the freehold was owned by the City Council. However things may have changed.
That said I agree with Lord Tyrion, it looks a steal in comparison and things are looking rosie at The Toon. 👍


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## Swango1980 (May 25, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Isn't that the same number of goals as Joel Matip?

Maybe even Joelinton!!! 

Click to expand...

Yeah, and a couple less than Liverpool's much loved striker Firminho


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## Tashyboy (May 25, 2022)

The police have been told to keep a eye out for Mansfield Town fan with flares. apparently , thats what they wore the last time they were in play off's.


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## Tashyboy (May 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			But

1) Chelsea are recently successful and have CL money coming in too
2) Globally better known and more marketable
3) Can place top 4 without significant investment needed in the playing squad.

City have spent roughly 2 billion so far just trying to become relevant, and they've done well doing so. (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/soccer/news/how-much-manchester-city-spent-squad-value-transfer-fee-players/qejkb6nmxowbvkn1r4auh9r8#:~:text=How much money have Manchester,the club back in 2008.)

Newcastle will cost more in todays money I imagine to develop a playing squad and infrastructure to compete at the highest level.

*Why not invest it all in one go, buy something ready made to compete at all levels - and then wait for the money to come in?*

Click to expand...

Just caught up with the topic. Both you and LT make Valid points. Personally I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer. Buying someone like Chelsea ticks all the boxes. Support, History, trophies, etc etc. 
Then compare that to Newcastle. This for me is where it gets interesting. I am not a believer in the theory that football started when the premier league did. It goes back to the late 1800’s. Since that time clubs have come and gone. Going back to the 70’s  when I started really following football as a kid, teams like Chelsea, Newcastle, City, Liverpool, Utd, Everton, Sheff Utd, Arsenal, Spurs and a dozen other clubs were as big as one another. All have history. Some of it tragic. But it just seemed that there was more equality. The Premier league came and along with that money and a divide.
Newcastle want to get to the top table like City Did back in 2008. My fear is it may be harder with the constraints of FFP. Which quite frankly is about as useless as VAR. I hope Newcastle do find a level playing field at the top table. There seems to be 6 or 7 teams battling to avoid relegation, same amount for the mid table, 3 or 4 for the 4th spot and the title somewhat predictable over the last few years. If Newcastle break Into that top four like spurs and Leicester then fantastic.
Re City investing in there team, it goes a lot lot deeper than that. The academy is doing fantastic, apart from City winning the Prem, Prem league division 2. They also won under 16’s, 17,s and 18,s Prem league. They are developing players that very well may not play for the first team but will have careers in football.


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## Piece (May 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			But that much? I go back to Newcastle, as it is the most recent. £305m for a PL team with a stadium already built and needing minimal money spending on it. Chelsea have moved the decimal point and added another 1/3. *Southampton sold for about £100m this year.*

They will have to be making whopping amounts to pay back banks, investors etc on that scale.
		
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So,  Soton = Grealish?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2022)

Piece said:



			So,  Soton = Grealish?



Click to expand...

It's a scary thought isn't it. Mind, you can probably buy half the PL with 1 x Mbappe


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just caught up with the topic. Both you and LT make Valid points. Personally I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer. Buying someone like Chelsea ticks all the boxes. Support, History, trophies, etc etc.
Then compare that to Newcastle. This for me is where it gets interesting. I am not a believer in the theory that football started when the premier league did. It goes back to the late 1800’s. Since that time clubs have come and gone. Going back to the 70’s  when I started really following football as a kid, teams like Chelsea, Newcastle, City, Liverpool, Utd, Everton, Sheff Utd, Arsenal, Spurs and a dozen other clubs were as big as one another. All have history. Some of it tragic. But it just seemed that there was more equality. The Premier league came and along with that money and a divide.
Newcastle want to get to the top table like City Did back in 2008. My fear is it may be harder with the constraints of FFP. Which quite frankly is about as useless as VAR. I hope Newcastle do find a level playing field at the top table. There seems to be 6 or 7 teams battling to avoid relegation, same amount for the mid table, 3 or 4 for the 4th spot and the title somewhat predictable over the last few years. If Newcastle break Into that top four like spurs and Leicester then fantastic.
Re City investing in there team, it goes a lot lot deeper than that. The academy is doing fantastic, apart from City winning the Prem, Prem league division 2. They also won under 16’s, 17,s and 18,s Prem league. They are developing players that very well may not play for the first team but will have careers in football.
		
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Ive no issue with Citys investment (mostly). City is a great example of what model Newcastle will have to follow to achieve success. I think that if City were sold now, they'd be priced around the same as Chelsea are, thats the going price for a club that is ready to challenge at the highest levels in every competition.


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## GB72 (May 25, 2022)

That woud be an interesting question, starting with the lowest club in league football and workng up, how many clubs could you buy for the price of Grealish. Or, as an altentative, working in the same direction, how many clubs could be made debt free and financially stable for that money.


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## Bdill93 (May 25, 2022)

GB72 said:



			That woud be an interesting question, starting with the lowest club in league football and workng up, how many clubs could you buy for the price of Grealish. Or, as an altentative, working in the same direction, how many clubs could be made debt free and financially stable for that money.
		
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Its actually pretty sickening to consider isnt it. One hundred million pounds for one dude... who then doesnt actually even make the best XI 

Hes done well out of it though, now the face of Gucci! Hes very much the Beckham of the modern era.


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## Canary_Yellow (May 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Its actually pretty sickening to consider isnt it. One hundred million pounds for one dude... who then doesnt actually even make the best XI 

Hes done well out of it though, now the face of Gucci! Hes very much the Beckham of the modern era.
		
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There's been so much extra money in football in recent years, the only beneficiaries of this seem to be players and agents as far as I can tell.


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## GB72 (May 25, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			There's been so much extra money in football in recent years, the only beneficiaries of this seem to be players and agents as far as I can tell.
		
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Whilst I know that there is no obligation in any way for them to help out, and maybe even a slight feeling that they shoudl not as it only encourages bad practice, but it is horrible to watch long established and historic or just good community clubs go under for the sake of amounts that most Premier League clubs could find down the back of the sofa.


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## SteveW86 (May 25, 2022)

So Klopp has won the Premier League Manager of the Season award, that seems a bit of a stretch for me. I'm assuming that they take all the competitions into account, which is wrong for me.

In the Premier League alone, surely Franks has exceeded expectations the most?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2022)

GB72 said:



			That woud be an interesting question, starting with the lowest club in league football and workng up, how many clubs could you buy for the price of Grealish. Or, as an altentative, working in the same direction, how many clubs could be made debt free and financially stable for that money.
		
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I think it would be very interesting to see a table of the finances of each club, showing current debt, income and expenditure p/a. I wonder how many are actually in the black, very few I suspect. The question tends to be how manageable is the debt?

It sounds simple for an altruistic club to clear the debt in all of Div 2 but if clubs run at a loss every year does clearing the debt solve the problem?


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## nickjdavis (May 25, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Isn't that the same number of goals as Joel Matip?

Maybe even Joelinton!!! 

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ahem!!! Joelinton has 4 PL goals this season.


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## Blue in Munich (May 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



*Chelsea sold for 4.25 billion*

What I don't get is how is Chelsea so expensive if Roman isn't getting anything? Surely prices only rise so high as that's what the current owners want to walk away with after costs etc

If he isn't getting a penny couldn't chelsea have been sold for a lot less?

Anyways least that mess is sorted
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			They do have a ready made package at Chelsea, *saying that the ground needs an upgrade I believe,* but all of that money needs to be given back to someone, it is not like Elon Musk has bought them with cash. The money will be from other investors, banks etc then need paying each year, on top of player expenditure, the ground upgrade that is needed. It seems out of kilter with other club sales but I guess it makes sense to the buyers.
		
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*Not exactly; they were sold for £2.5 billion with a commitment to invest £1.75 billion*;

https://news.sky.com/story/chelsea-...signs-purchase-agreement-to-buy-club-12607230

"Of the total investment being made, £2.5bn will be applied to purchase the shares in the club"

"In addition *the proposed new owners will commit £1.75bn in further investment for the benefit of the club."*

*"This includes investments in Stamford Bridge,* the academy, the women's team and Kingsmeadow and continued funding for the Chelsea Foundation."

So whilst paying £4.25 billion in total, approximately 40% of that total will be committed to improving the value of their £2.5 billion investment.

They also have to commit to not taking management fees or dividends, or selling shares, for the next 10 years.

It was the best Roman could do for us given the circumstances.


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



*Not exactly; they were sold for £2.5 billion with a commitment to invest £1.75 billion*;

https://news.sky.com/story/chelsea-...signs-purchase-agreement-to-buy-club-12607230

"Of the total investment being made, £2.5bn will be applied to purchase the shares in the club"

"In addition *the proposed new owners will commit £1.75bn in further investment for the benefit of the club."*

*"This includes investments in Stamford Bridge,* the academy, the women's team and Kingsmeadow and continued funding for the Chelsea Foundation."

So whilst paying £4.25 billion in total, approximately 40% of that total will be committed to improving the value of their £2.5 billion investment.

They also have to commit to not taking management fees or dividends, or selling shares, for the next 10 years.

It was the best Roman could do for us given the circumstances.
		
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At least it's sorted and can draw a line under it and look to next season


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## GB72 (May 25, 2022)

To be fair, it could easily have gone another way with Chelsea being used as a political football and with the club being allowed to very publicly collapse and then being used as an argument against sanctions and in support of the Russian position.


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## Pin-seeker (May 25, 2022)

Kalvin Phillips rumoured to be on his way to City.
Is he good enough?

Also Raphina off to Barca,quality player that will look even better with better players around him.


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Its actually pretty sickening to consider isnt it. One hundred million pounds for one dude... who then doesnt actually even make the best XI 

Hes done well out of it though, now the face of Gucci! Hes very much the Beckham of the modern era.
		
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Grealish is nowhere near as handsome as Beckham, you wash your mouth out!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Kalvin Phillips rumoured to be on his way to City.
Is he good enough?

Also Raphina off to Barca,quality player that will look even better with better players around him.
		
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I thought he looked excellent in the Euro's last year. Add in the quality of players around him at City and I think it would be a great move for City and the player.


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought he looked excellent in the Euro's last year. Add in the quality of players around him at City and I think it would be a great move for City and the player.
		
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I guess they're looking for the new Fernandinho, but with Rodri being such a key player, I do hope Phillips won't just be sitting on the bench. Many a young English player has been ruined this way.


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## AmandaJR (May 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Kalvin Phillips rumoured to be on his way to City.
*Is he good enough?*

Also Raphina off to Barca,quality player that will look even better with better players around him.
		
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If Rodri gets injured/needs a rest!


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## Swango1980 (May 25, 2022)

GB72 said:



			That woud be an interesting question, starting with the lowest club in league football and workng up, how many clubs could you buy for the price of Grealish. Or, as an altentative, working in the same direction, how many clubs could be made debt free and financially stable for that money.
		
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How many clubs could be bought for his weekly / monthly / annual wage?


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought he looked excellent in the Euro's last year. Add in the quality of players around him at City and I think it would be a great move for City and the player.
		
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He is the cheaper option than rice aswell.. I rate Phillips highly and would suit citys style of play 

But no looking past the fact he would cost less so more attractive option if he does indeed end up on the bench a bit

People say grealish didn't play much but he played 27 games scoring 7

City compete on many fronts so he will get games 

Phillips as an option to rest rodri. Class


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## BiMGuy (May 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Kalvin Phillips rumoured to be on his way to City.
Is he good enough?

Also Raphina off to Barca,quality player that will look even better with better players around him.
		
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He is absolutely good enough. I would except him to thrive under Pep surrounded by the players they have.

Barca have made an initial offer for Rapha. Which is about half of what he is worth. I think we’re holding on till after the World Cup to see if his value rises.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I guess they're looking for the new Fernandinho, but with Rodri being such a key player, I do hope Phillips won't just be sitting on the bench. Many a young English player has been ruined this way.
		
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City play so many games in a season though. Philips might not play every game but he will play enough. Pep is a definite rotator, he likes to keep players fresh.


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## Pin-seeker (May 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He is the cheaper option than rice aswell.. I rate Phillips highly and would suit citys style of play

But no looking past the fact he would cost less so more attractive option if he does indeed end up on the bench a bit

*People say grealish didn't play much but he played 27 games scoring 7*

City compete on many fronts so he will get games

Phillips as an option to rest rodri. Class
		
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How many of the 27 did he start?

I actually think Grealish looks decent for City,but for the price tag he should look better than decent.
But that’s not his fault 🤷‍♂️.


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			How many of the 27 did he start?

I actually think Grealish looks decent for City,but for the price tag he should look better than decent.
But that’s not his fault 🤷‍♂️.
		
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Should he look better ? The price means nothing really it's only what city were willing to pay 

Too much is laid on how much a club pays for a player, if they do the job required of the club playing then that should be enough 

He has some of the best players in the world to get in front of


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## Pin-seeker (May 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Should he look better ? The price means nothing really it's only what city were willing to pay

Too much is laid on how much a club pays for a player, if they do the job required of the club playing then that should be enough

He has some of the best players in the world to get in front of
		
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Well I’d expect a £100m player to look amazing tbh.
But like I said the price tag isn’t his fault.
He looks like he’s absolutely loving it tho,doubt he’s been sober since Sunday 😂


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## Tashyboy (May 25, 2022)

Re Grealish, I think he has done Ok. Brilliant no, poor no. Could he have done better. definately. When I look back over the years there have not been many players that have come to City and hit the ground running. At one time the ethos was “ you have spent X millions so they should slot straight in“. Apart from transferred Prem league players alla Stirling and Walker. Most foreign players have struggled With the first season, with the exception of Aguero, Diaz and Laporte. Others inc both Silvas, Cancelo


SteveW86 said:



			So Klopp has won the Premier League Manager of the Season award, that seems a bit of a stretch for me. I'm assuming that they take all the competitions into account, which is wrong for me.

In the Premier League alone, surely Franks has exceeded expectations the most?
		
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Joking aside I am not a lover of awards being presented before the season has done. Ironically Klopp never won one manger of the month award for the premier league. It’s a premier league award. Not league cup, FA cup award or potential Champs league award.
Ps I would not of given it to Pep either. The Brentford gaffa or Eddie Howe would of been in my top three.


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## Pin-seeker (May 25, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			So Klopp has won the Premier League Manager of the Season award, that seems a bit of a stretch for me. I'm assuming that they take all the competitions into account, which is wrong for me.

In the Premier League alone, surely Franks has exceeded expectations the most?
		
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Turns out you do get a trophy for finishing 2nd 🤷‍♂️
Strange one to me if it’s premier league manager of the yr 🤔


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			So Klopp has won the Premier League Manager of the Season award, that seems a bit of a stretch for me. I'm assuming that they take all the competitions into account, which is wrong for me.

In the Premier League alone, surely Franks has exceeded expectations the most?
		
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He got two awards 

The first was for the Prem Manager of the Year - I guess because the team wasn’t predicted to get anywhere near the title but challenged all the way to the end and being 14 points behind in Jan - but i think Franks would have been a good shout for that 

He then also won the LMA Manager of the Year which is for the whole league - I would prob looked at Cooper for that award , Forest were bottom when he took over and now one game away from getting into the Prem


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I tend to agree. The way it stands, he'd get more success at City, but he'd be a much more important player to Utd which would probably suit his character? At City, he is just another midfielder in a large group of fantastic midfielders. Bit like when Bale went to Madrid. He always had a great chance of winning trophies, but from a personal standpoint he would always be in the shadow of Ronaldo. There'd probably have been many clubs, including Utd, where he would have been the most important player in the team. I always wonder if that could have pushed him to become a more "legendary" player? I think it is difficult to push to that level if you already have a player of that status in the same team, they say that is why Neymar left Barcelona. Sadly for him, he decided to follow the money and go to a league that really isn't taken all that seriously from a football perspective.
		
Click to expand...

Ok I’m confused in regards Bale ?!

He will go down as one of their most important players over the last 20 years for them - he played a big part in them winning 4 CL’s whilst there , stepping up in those finals even more so against their City rivals. Wouldn’t have got anywhere near achieving anything of the same at Utd or indeed any other club both team wise or individually


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2022)

This is a really good watch


----------



## Blue in Munich (May 25, 2022)

GB72 said:



			To be fair, it could easily have gone another way with Chelsea being used as a political football and with the club being allowed to very publicly collapse and then being used as an argument against sanctions and in support of the Russian position.
		
Click to expand...

To be honest, I would not have been surprised if that had happened, and I think we were used as a political football.  And the people it hurt most were the shop staff, programme sellers and all the ancillary staff who couldn't work.  Damaged the club as well as we will lose some players with whom we couldn't negotiate contracts.  I doubt it made a blind bit of difference to Putin.

The only people it did help was the spivs; programmes were still being printed as some were pre-ordered on subscription and I believe some season tickets include them (boxes/corporate), but instead of being able to buy them at face value, they now have to be ordered at £9 per shot.  And if you missed that, try eBay;  Real Madrid home programme was seen going for £125.


----------



## Blue in Munich (May 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			At least it's sorted and can draw a line under it and look to next season
		
Click to expand...

True, albeit from a position of disadvantage having had their hands tied re contract negotiations.


----------



## Blue in Munich (May 25, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			If anyone's interested, it's all here;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Pitch_Owners

Click to expand...

Thanks, that saved me explaining it.  Must find out which blade of grass is mine


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, and a couple less than Liverpool's much loved striker Firminho 

Click to expand...

He's not a striker, he's a false no.3, wrapped in an enigma.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 25, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			ahem!!! Joelinton has 4 PL goals this season.
		
Click to expand...

Expecting a bid from City?


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 25, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Thanks, that saved me explaining it.  Must find out which blade of grass is mine 

Click to expand...

Its the ones that you cast your shadow over mate, so the 18 yard box should do.


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## Blue in Munich (May 25, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its the ones that you cast your shadow over mate, so the 18 yard box should do. 

Click to expand...


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## Tashyboy (May 25, 2022)

Tonights final between Feyenord and Roma.

Wednesday's final - the climax of the first ever Europa Conference League campaign - will be played at Arena Kombetare, which holds *21,690.*

what is that all about.😳


----------



## fundy (May 25, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Tonights final between Feyenord and Roma.

Wednesday's final - the climax of the first ever Europa Conference League campaign - will be played at Arena Kombetare, which holds *21,690.*

what is that all about.😳
		
Click to expand...


plenty to see a Mourinho side win 1-0 lol


----------



## GreiginFife (May 25, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Tonights final between Feyenord and Roma.

Wednesday's final - the climax of the first ever Europa Conference League campaign - will be played at Arena Kombetare, which holds *21,690.*

what is that all about.😳
		
Click to expand...

Third tier final played in a third tier ground. 

Nothing but a shameless money grab of a “tournament”


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## Blue in Munich (May 25, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Third tier final played in a third tier ground.

*Nothing but a shameless money grab *of a “tournament”
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't that apply to anything prefaced by the acronym UEFA?


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## nickjdavis (May 25, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Expecting a bid from City? 

Click to expand...

1. He is not for sale. 

2. They couldn't afford him.


----------



## PieMan (May 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Kalvin Phillips rumoured to be on his way to City.
Is he good enough?
		
Click to expand...

In short - no.

Will be another Fabian Delph.


----------



## GreiginFife (May 25, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Doesn't that apply to anything prefaced by the acronym UEFA?
		
Click to expand...

Pretty much, only caveat being that the CL and the UEFA cup/EL have been established for a long time. A third comp was never needed. 

CL expansion plans evidence of their greed if ever it was needed.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 25, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Pretty much, only caveat being that the CL and the UEFA cup/EL have been established for a long time. A third comp was never needed.

CL expansion plans evidence of their greed if ever it was needed.
		
Click to expand...

They could have reprised the old cup winners cup, although that was crap, as well.


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## Stuart_C (May 25, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Doesn't that apply to anything prefaced by the acronym UEFA?
		
Click to expand...

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!!



Tashyboy said:



			Tonights final between Feyenord and Roma.

Wednesday's final - the climax of the first ever Europa Conference League campaign - will be played at Arena Kombetare, which holds *21,690.*

what is that all about.😳
		
Click to expand...

At least the ground looked full of actual club fans as opposed to how Saturday’s CL Final  will look with all the hangers on.


----------



## Beezerk (May 26, 2022)

PieMan said:



			In short - no.

Will be another Fabian Delph.
		
Click to expand...

This.
He did OK for England in the Euros but for me he’s very limited as a player.
Pep could give him more game awareness but he can’t give him a better first touch and better passing ability.
Hope I’m wrong though.


----------



## Swango1980 (May 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok I’m confused in regards Bale ?!

He will go down as one of their most important players over the last 20 years for them - he played a big part in them winning 4 CL’s whilst there , stepping up in those finals even more so against their City rivals. Wouldn’t have got anywhere near achieving anything of the same at Utd or indeed any other club both team wise or individually
		
Click to expand...

So, you think Bale is regarded as a legend amongst Real Madrid fans? Despite, as you rightly said, what he has done for them on the pitch? Now I'm confused. And, I never said he wasn't successful at Madrid in terms of winning trophies. But, as an individual, he could have been a legend at many more big clubs, and perhaps been very successful as well. Perhaps not at Utd (although he probably would have still been the main man and had a better chance to reach legendary status, which of course he could have also had if he stayed at Spurs). What if he had joined City, Liverpool or Bayern? Good chance he'd have been successful and the key player in those teams, without being in the shadow of Ronaldo.

It is a similar discussion to Steven Gerrard, but in reverse. There is no doubt he is legend at a big club (Liverpool), and was their main man. He could have gone to another club for success and money, but ultimately elected to stay at Liverpool. Had they actually had any sustained success, perhaps he'd be better praised / recognised amongst global football fans.

To be fair, one of the Champions League wins was gifted to him by Karius


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			So, you think Bale is regarded as a legend amongst Real Madrid fans? Despite, as you rightly said, what he has done for them on the pitch? Now I'm confused. And, I never said he wasn't successful at Madrid in terms of winning trophies. But, as an individual, he could have been a legend at many more big clubs, and perhaps been very successful as well. Perhaps not at Utd (although he probably would have still been the main man and had a better chance to reach legendary status, which of course he could have also had if he stayed at Spurs). What if he had joined City, Liverpool or Bayern? Good chance he'd have been successful and the key player in those teams, without being in the shadow of Ronaldo.

It is a similar discussion to Steven Gerrard, but in reverse. There is no doubt he is legend at a big club (Liverpool), and was their main man. He could have gone to another club for success and money, but ultimately elected to stay at Liverpool. Had they actually had any sustained success, perhaps he'd be better praised / recognised amongst global football fans.

To be fair, one of the Champions League wins was gifted to him by Karius 

Click to expand...

Bale was never going to be successful at Spurs - they didn’t have the team , he went to arguably the biggest club in the world and wasn’t in anyones shadow on the pitch , he made his place his own in the team for a good period of time 

Players don’t always want to be the “main man” - players want to win , play in the best teams and pick up the trophies , that’s why he went to Madrid - not Utd or Bayern etc - he wouldn’t have been the same player and had the same impact. 

And when Bale does leave he will be recognised as one of their best players over the modern era along with the likes of Modric etc . 

And Gerrard was always recognised Globally - the CL final in 05 sorted that out as his European accolades show as well


----------



## Swango1980 (May 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Bale was never going to be successful at Spurs - they didn’t have the team , he went to arguably the biggest club in the world and wasn’t in anyones shadow on the pitch , he made his place his own in the team for a good period of time

Players don’t always want to be the “main man” - players want to win , play in the best teams and pick up the trophies , that’s why he went to Madrid - not Utd or Bayern etc - he wouldn’t have been the same player and had the same impact.

And when Bale does leave he will be recognised as one of their best players over the modern era along with the likes of Modric etc .

And Gerrard was always recognised Globally - the CL final in 05 sorted that out as his European accolades show as well
		
Click to expand...

Firstly, Gareth Bale and every other player were always in Ronaldo's shadow. Bale did amazing things at Madrid, but Ronaldo was always always considered the main man in that team. You may choose to deny this, but I will respectfully say you arew wrong. It is amazing how many people are starting to sing the praises of Benzema, as if he is found another gear. However, he was always a great player, it was just that, he to was in Ronaldo's shadow. One direct consequence for Bale would be, had Ronaldo not been at Madrid, Bale would have probably taken all their free-kicks. I always felt Bale was (is) an unbelievable free kick taker, but moving to Real Madrid essentially meant he would not be able to showcase that particular talent as much as he would have done at other clubs.

However, please try and understand the context of the post in the first place. Regarding Grealish, Bdill93 said he felt Grealish would be better for Utd than City. I of course knew he wasn't implying he'd win more trophies at Man Utd. Rather, from an individual perspective, he'd be a bigger fish in the Man Utd squad, and therefore he'd get to showcase his talents more. Whereas at City he is just another excellent player in a team blessed with them. I tended to agree with that comment (albeit we'll never know how any individual player will do in a situation that never happened). I then simply compared that to Gareth Bale, and had he gone to several other big clubs, he'd have had a chance to showcase his talents even more so than he could at Madrid. Whether or not that leads to lots of success, we'll never know. Nor do I know what is in the head of Gareth Bale, maybe he is content picking up a big salary, playing golf and getting abused by Madrid fans. Maybe he was happy not to be the main man. He has had fantastic moments on the pitch for Madrid. But, had he gone to Liverpool, for example, I'm sure he would also have had some fantastic moments on the pitch.


----------



## Tashyboy (May 26, 2022)

That Julian Alvarez don’t look a bad player
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...ate-27068718&usg=AOvVaw09r-a6KBZH_Q77M-oJfUvK


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## Liverbirdie (May 26, 2022)

I hope we're all supporting the semi-English team on Saturday?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hope we're all supporting the semi-English team on Saturday?
		
Click to expand...

I don't think Gareth Bale sees himself as English. He is 100% Welsh


----------



## Blue in Munich (May 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hope we're all supporting the semi-English team on Saturday?
		
Click to expand...

No, we're not.


----------



## BiMGuy (May 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hope we're all supporting the semi-English team on Saturday?
		
Click to expand...

Nope!


----------



## PieMan (May 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hope we're all supporting the semi-English team on Saturday?
		
Click to expand...

Roma played last night.... (same number of English players in the starting 11 as Liverpool!!! ) 

As for Saturday, no chance!!


----------



## JamesR (May 26, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Roma played last night.... (same number of English players in the starting 11 as Liverpool!!! ) 

As for Saturday, no chance!! 

Click to expand...

A successful Premiership team really is good for the National Team isn't it?


----------



## Swango1980 (May 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hope we're all supporting the semi-English team on Saturday?
		
Click to expand...

100% Real Madrid


----------



## Golfmmad (May 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			100% Real Madrid 

Click to expand...

100% Liverpool. 👍👍


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## Tashyboy (May 26, 2022)

Me am a neutral, hope for a good game and may the best team win. All I will say, beware the Real Madrid dark shenanigan.


----------



## PieMan (May 26, 2022)

JamesR said:



			A successful Premiership team really is good for the National Team isn't it?
		
Click to expand...

Not when the only English players in the EPL team aren't the best English players in their respective positions for the national team.......!!


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## Beezerk (May 26, 2022)

As long as it’s a belting game and not a bore fest I don’t mind who wins 💪


----------



## Yorkhacker (May 26, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hope we're all supporting the semi-English team on Saturday?
		
Click to expand...

I would, If I thought that any match going Liverpool supporter, would do the same.


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## Swango1980 (May 26, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			I would, If I thought that any match going Liverpool supporter, would do the same.
		
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that every Liverpool fan were 100% behind Man Utd in the 1999 final against Bayern.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I have no doubt that every Liverpool fan were 100% behind Man Utd in the 1999 final against Bayern.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Bunkermagnet (May 26, 2022)

JamesR said:



			A successful Premiership team really is good for the National Team isn't it?
		
Click to expand...

Not when the National team manager picks players from the  non Champs league qualifiers or players who don't play more than 15 mins  and then only once a month.


----------



## IainP (May 26, 2022)

Perhaps a few more Real Madrid fans than first thought....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529829863644975105


----------



## Hobbit (May 27, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hope we're all supporting the semi-English team on Saturday?
		
Click to expand...

Too busy travelling up to Madrid for the Leganes ‘v’ Almeria match. A win for Almeria sees them promoted automatically.


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## Bdill93 (May 27, 2022)

Villa getting business done early! A new CB to join our squad and a CDM so far… keep them coming!


----------



## Stuart_C (May 27, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hope we're all supporting the semi-English team on Saturday?
		
Click to expand...

Jesus, dont encourage them.

Paris is loooking a tad overcast this morning P


----------



## 3offTheTee (May 27, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Too busy travelling up to Madrid for the Leganes ‘v’ Almeria match. A win for Almeria sees them promoted automatically.
		
Click to expand...

Have a great trip Brian. I follow both divisions in La Liga and both opponents have nothing to play for. Almeria have a better head to head against Valladolid so a draw should suffice.
How many fans will go to Madrid?

I like Tenerife as we go there quite regularly in Winter.


----------



## Orikoru (May 27, 2022)

Anyone else seen this??






So weird. How has this happened? Do people in America care about an English "soccer" player!?


----------



## fundy (May 27, 2022)

Conte staying, Forster on a free, trying to buy Perisic it seems

None of that seems very Spursy


----------



## Rlburnside (May 27, 2022)

fundy said:



			Conte staying, Forster on a free, trying to buy Perisic it seems

None of that seems very Spursy 

Click to expand...

And ENIC supposed to be putting in 150million that and finishing 4th is no surprise that Conte staying.


----------



## fundy (May 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			And ENIC supposed to be putting in 150million that and finishing 4th is no surprise that Conte staying.
		
Click to expand...


im only jealous


----------



## Rlburnside (May 27, 2022)

fundy said:



			im only jealous 

Click to expand...

Yea it was a strange finish for your team looked a nailed on 4th finish then you go ahead and do what we’re good at 😂😂


----------



## fundy (May 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Yea it was a strange finish for your team looked a nailed on 4th finish then you go ahead and do what we’re good at 😂😂
		
Click to expand...


ah it had been brewing since January lol


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 27, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529753393815773184
This as got to be one of the greatest goals ever,& on the biggest stage.
How many players could actually pull that off? 🤯


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			As long as it’s a belting game and not a bore fest I don’t mind who wins 💪
		
Click to expand...

I’m just hoping Andy Robertson doesn’t get injured or too knackered.  

And though not a Liverpool fan (or indeed fan of any English club) I will be hoping and cheering for a Liverpool win.


----------



## Slime (May 28, 2022)

I've been away for a week, did I miss anything?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			I've been away for a week, did I miss anything?
		
Click to expand...

Massive game coming up, Forest v Huddersfield 👍


----------



## Tashyboy (May 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Massive game coming up, Forest v Huddersfield 👍
		
Click to expand...

Stags v Port Vale.👍


----------



## Beezerk (May 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Massive game coming up, Forest v Huddersfield 👍
		
Click to expand...

Had a discussion with my Forest supporting mate last night.
He claimed the Championship playoff final is a bigger game than the Champions League final. I told him he was a crazy fool 🤣 
Discuss...


----------



## BiMGuy (May 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Had a discussion with my Forest supporting mate last night.
He claimed the Championship playoff final is a bigger game than the Champions League final. I told him he was a crazy fool 🤣
Discuss...
		
Click to expand...

Financially it is. Otherwise it’s just a trophy for finishing 3rd in the second division 🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## pauljames87 (May 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Had a discussion with my Forest supporting mate last night.
He claimed the Championship playoff final is a bigger game than the Champions League final. I told him he was a crazy fool 🤣 
Discuss...
		
Click to expand...

I can see his point. The winner gets 90 million is it? (It was , prob more now) the next season.. they get either premier League status for a bit or they get parachute payments for 3 years 

So how much is that worth to a club over 4 years? 

Loser of the play offs has to compete in the league and hope for another chance 

Loser of champ league final 9/10 will be playing champs League again the following year 

From a purely financial position it's huge


----------



## Orikoru (May 28, 2022)




----------



## Mel Smooth (May 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Had a discussion with my Forest supporting mate last night.
He claimed the Championship playoff final is a bigger game than the Champions League final. I told him he was a crazy fool 🤣
Discuss...
		
Click to expand...

I guess to most Forest fans, the game is the biggest they have witnessed for 30 years, so you can see his point of view.

Speaking as a Huddersfield supporter, I hope we win, but I won't be too upset if Forest take it. The PL is a pretty shit place to try to operate if you don't have an owner that's prepared to throw obscene amounts of money at it.
If you enjoy watching live competetive football, of a good standard, the championship is a much better place.


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I can see his point. The winner gets 90 million is it? (It was , prob more now) the next season.. they get either premier League status for a bit or they get parachute payments for 3 years

So how much is that worth to a club over 4 years?

Loser of the play offs has to compete in the league and hope for another chance

Loser of champ league final 9/10 will be playing champs League again the following year

From a purely financial position it's huge
		
Click to expand...


such a depressing way of looking at it from a money perspective 

Champions League the pinnacle of club football such a massive massive game

And lets be honest, look at the last 10 winners of each and see whos doing the best financially


----------



## Orikoru (May 28, 2022)

Spurs are signing Perisic apparently, on a free. I wasn't sure at first given his age, but apparently he plays left wing back nowadays and is good there. The Croatian Ashley Young? Ha. Anyway Conte doesn't rate Reguilon so he'll be off, but he rates Sessegnon for the future, bringing in Perisic as the more experienced option, who should also be good going forward.


----------



## pauljames87 (May 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			such a depressing way of looking at it from a money perspective 

Champions League the pinnacle of club football such a massive massive game

And lets be honest, look at the last 10 winners of each and see whos doing the best financially 

Click to expand...

Lol very true. On a side note I really really want Forest in the premier League


----------



## Beezerk (May 28, 2022)

Mel Smooth said:



			I guess to most Forest fans, the game is the boggest they have witnessed for 30 years, so you can see his point.
		
Click to expand...

That’s what I said to him, he’s coming at it from a bit of a blinkered view.
It’s a massive pay day for the winner but no one will care come next Saturday 😂


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

cracking game in the national league play offs between Wrexham and Grimsby! 4-4 with 5 mins to go


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

one for the long throw afficionados that game


----------



## Mel Smooth (May 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			That’s what I said to him, he’s coming at it from a bit of a blinkered view.
It’s a massive pay day for the winner but no one will care come next Saturday 😂
		
Click to expand...

Thing is, it isn't even worth that much in terms of nett value to the club. The cost of trying to stay in the division swallows up the extra income, and as far as I know, Forest have been making heavy losses for a few seasons anyway. It's quite feasible that promotion could make their financial position worse than it already is.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

That’s the 3rd Scouse banner I’ve seen talking about Man City 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

Not good news as it looks like Thiago may not make it 😢

Seems that loads have fans also are stuck outside the stadium and seems the organisation to get into the stadium is shocking

And looks like they have delayed the kick off now


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not good news as it looks like Thiago may not make it 😢

Seems that loads have fans also are stuck outside the stadium and seems the organisation to get into the stadium is shocking
		
Click to expand...


Kick off 815 now to let fans get in 

Hope the policing has improved from when we there for a final in 95, especially if you lose!


----------



## pauljames87 (May 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 42792

That’s the 3rd Scouse banner I’ve seen talking about Man City 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Rent free


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not good news as it looks like Thiago may not make it 😢

Seems that loads have fans also are stuck outside the stadium and seems the organisation to get into the stadium is shocking

And looks like they have delayed the kick off now
		
Click to expand...

Reports of fans trying to get into the stadium with no tickets,not sure if that’s causing the problem🤷‍♂️


----------



## Billysboots (May 28, 2022)

I ask this not to be antagonistic but out of genuine curiosity. Why, at a neutral ground in a major final, are Liverpool fans and players given the lift of YNWA being played over the public address system? At Anfield I get it, but why here?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Kick off 815 now to let fans get in

Hope the policing has improved from when we there for a final in 95, especially if you lose!
		
Click to expand...

My uncle has said that they have herded the Liverpool fans into small tight queues and closing gates to force them through small gates and some being moved through the Madrid end


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			My uncle has said that they have herded the Liverpool fans into small tight queues and closing gates to force them through small gates and some being moved through the Madrid end
		
Click to expand...


Seen a couple of videos, doesnt look great

nor does the one of fans scaling the fences to get in


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530617631799115776


*Get French Football News* @GFFN
1h

Major security issues ongoing at the Stade de France tonight - 100s of “fans” without tickets have forced their way in. More follows. (RMC)



127Reply
370Retweet
1kLike
More options







*Get French Football News*
@GFFN
For a period of several minutes, Liverpool fans without tickets overwhelmed police stationed at Gate U. (RMC)



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530620786725240832


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Seen a couple of videos, doesnt look great

nor does the one of fans scaling the fences to get in 

Click to expand...

Seems they had get Alan Kennedy over a fence 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530622382712422400



Fans arrived 2 hours before kick off still not in


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems they had get Alan Kennedy over a fence


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530622382712422400
View attachment 42796


Fans arrived 2 hours before kick off still not in
		
Click to expand...


Not according to UEFA  fans fault for turning up late


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530618659521056770


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Not according to UEFA  fans fault for turning up late
		
Click to expand...

Of course - can’t be the organisation at fault


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530624296678215685
Tear gas being used now 😢


----------



## pauljames87 (May 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Not according to UEFA  fans fault for turning up late
		
Click to expand...

Ones with the tickets did


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course - can’t be the organisation at fault


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530624296678215685
Tear gas being used now 😢
		
Click to expand...


Sadly not a shock with the police there at the football


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

Seen videos of both sets of fans climbing fences & pretty much acting like 🛎 ends


----------



## adam6177 (May 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seen videos of both sets of fans climbing fences & pretty much acting like 🛎 ends
		
Click to expand...

I wonder what's happened recently, you think how we embarrassed ourselves at the euros at Wembley. Now potentially here as well.

As a pool fan I'm ashamed to be linked to the cretins that do this kind of thing, knowing that people are in danger and that tarnished brush will now cast over us again.

I hope everyone is safe and well.


----------



## IanM (May 28, 2022)

Just seen Gareth Bale's interview.   He reckons Liverpool have no chance.  Poor short game and miss too many fairways.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530625846989430787
Blimey doesn’t look good


----------



## Imurg (May 28, 2022)

Surely Stade de France are well versed in hosting big crowds...they have plenty of sellout rugby matches every year and you don't hear of these issues....
Is it Stade marshaling or UEFA gorillas?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I wonder what's happened recently, you think how we embarrassed ourselves at the euros at Wembley. Now potentially here as well.

As a pool fan I'm ashamed to be linked to the cretins that do this kind of thing, knowing that people are in danger and that tarnished brush will now cast over us again.

I hope everyone is safe and well.
		
Click to expand...

There are also a lot of people that are currently quickly jumping the gun to blame the fans - it’s worth noting the reports from all the journalists and many that are stuck outside along with the fans are pointing the finger firmly at the way it’s being organised and how they getting people into the stadium -

2/3 hours people have been waiting , the stewards closing gates as fans get there , not even enough space to allow wheelchairs through

Even some of the videos being passed as fans climbing into the stadium aren’t correct as it’s fans getting onto a ramp


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I wonder what's happened recently, you think how we embarrassed ourselves at the euros at Wembley. Now potentially here as well.

As a pool fan I'm ashamed to be linked to the cretins that do this kind of thing, knowing that people are in danger and that tarnished brush will now cast over us again.

I hope everyone is safe and well.
		
Click to expand...

Didn’t this happen at another final quite recently with Liverpool fans with no tickets getting into the stadium?


----------



## adam6177 (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There are also a lot of people that are currently quickly jumping the gun to blame the fans - it’s worth noting the reports from all the journalists and many that are stuck outside along with the fans are pointing the finger firmly at the way it’s being organised and how they getting people into the stadium -

2/3 hours people have been waiting , the stewards closing gates as fans get there , not even enough space to allow wheelchairs through
		
Click to expand...

Interestingly I went to see Robbie Williams at stade de France a few years back with my wife.  We missed the first 2 warm up acts because it took so blooming long to get in.... Maybe they are still useless now.


----------



## Dando (May 28, 2022)

I see saddiq Khant made it into the ground ok


----------



## IanM (May 28, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Surely Stade de France are well versed in hosting big crowds...they have plenty of sellout rugby matches every year and you don't hear of these issues....
Is it Stade marshaling or UEFA gorillas?
		
Click to expand...

Rugby crowds are very very different.


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## pauljames87 (May 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Didn’t this happen at another final quite recently with Liverpool fans with no tickets getting into the stadium?
		
Click to expand...

Rumours of the national anthem being binned for the final as they won't sing it anyways


----------



## 4LEX (May 28, 2022)

A lot of the fans climbing fences look like locals and not Liverpool fans. Seems total chaos with fans locked out with genuine tickets and then tear gassed


----------



## Beezerk (May 28, 2022)

4LEX said:



			A lot of the fans climbing fences look like locals and not Liverpool fans. Seems total chaos with fans locked out with genuine tickets and then tear gassed 

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530630002793922561


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## fundy (May 28, 2022)

game been delayed that long Thiago been passed fit again :0


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

Seems were getting the view from the upper tier tonight


----------



## IanM (May 28, 2022)

4LEX said:



			A lot of the fans climbing fences look like locals and not Liverpool fans. Seems total chaos with fans locked out with genuine tickets and then tear gassed 

Click to expand...

Berets and stripey jumpers??


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## BiMGuy (May 28, 2022)

How is that not a goal?


----------



## Dando (May 28, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			How is that not a goal?
		
Click to expand...

Because it was offside


----------



## IanM (May 28, 2022)

He was offside.   😉


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			How is that not a goal?
		
Click to expand...

LiVARpool 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Fade and Die (May 28, 2022)

Looked like it came of the Liverpool player though?


----------



## Cherry13 (May 28, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			How is that not a goal?
		
Click to expand...

Only one player between benzema and goal, and Fabinho didn’t intentionally play the ball… I disagree with the Fabinho bit, but understand the rule


----------



## Tashyboy (May 28, 2022)

As a Neutral am quite enjoying this game 👍


----------



## greenone (May 28, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			How is that not a goal?
		
Click to expand...

Because there needs to be 2 Liverpool players between him and the goal when his team mate kicks the ball forward.


----------



## Piece (May 28, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Looked like it came of the Liverpool player though?
		
Click to expand...

Unintentionally though. Has to be deemed deliberate for offside


----------



## hairball_89 (May 28, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			How is that not a goal?
		
Click to expand...

Not gonna lie, if that had been the other end I'd be fuming. It's off fabinho. It's forward off konate. So he played the ball forward surely?

No idea.


----------



## adam6177 (May 28, 2022)

Having seen it again and again and listened to the "explanation".... I'm feeling very very very fortunate.


----------



## Swango1980 (May 28, 2022)

What is all this intentional nonsense. Earlier in season, we had players offside, a defender deliberately try to play the ball, mess it up and it goes to attacker who scores. Not offside. Officials told us the defender made a deliberate action to play the ball.

Well, Fabinho made an intentional effort to win the ball. Now it is offside because it happened to fall to attacker.

They got away with one big time


----------



## Dando (May 28, 2022)

So a RM player rugby tackles Dias and wins a free kick


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

What a performance from Courtois - some out of this world saves that are looking likely to win this match for them 😢


----------



## Billysboots (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a performance from Courtois - some out of this world saves that are looking likely to win this match for them 😢
		
Click to expand...

He has been immense, that’s for sure.


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

Courtois and Carvajal been utterly superb


----------



## Piece (May 28, 2022)

If ever a club was destined to win a cup, its RM this season. 😆


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

Piece said:



			If ever a club was destined to win a cup, its RM this season. 😆
		
Click to expand...

Got to give them huge credit for the way they have defended - so solid and when getting past with a chance Courtois was there 

Beating PSG , Chelsea , Man City and now looking like Liverpool to win CL is one heck of run


----------



## pauljames87 (May 28, 2022)

Thanks Madrid ..done us a huge favour ..


----------



## Swango1980 (May 28, 2022)




----------



## IanM (May 28, 2022)

Courtois was decent..


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

BOOOOM 😂😂😂😂😂

When Karma comes back to bite you 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Canary_Yellow (May 28, 2022)

Extraordinary CL win for Real Madrid. 

Tonight was less of a fluke than their wins en route! Herculean defending and goalkeeping when needed, and Liverpool just didn’t create enough unfortunately.


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Got to give them huge credit for the way they have defended - so solid and when getting past with a chance Courtois was there

Beating PSG , Chelsea , Man City and now looking like Liverpool to win CL is one heck of run
		
Click to expand...


genuinely not sure how they won any of those ties let alone all of them lol, but fair play to them


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a performance from Courtois - some out of this world saves that are looking likely to win this match for them 😢
		
Click to expand...

It was the goal that won it 😉


----------



## Swango1980 (May 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			It was the goal that won it 😉
		
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Pity they didn't have a decent right-back to block the cross .


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530656178472202240
😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			genuinely not sure how they won any of those ties let alone all of them lol, but fair play to them
		
Click to expand...

mental isn’t it - must be one of the hardest runs to win the CL

Oh well gives some other fans something to cheers about


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## fundy (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			mental isn’t it - must be one of the hardest runs to win the CL

Oh well gives some other fans something to cheers about
		
Click to expand...


im not sure but expect they lost every single one on xG quite comfortably (PSG not so sure about)


----------



## hairball_89 (May 28, 2022)

Gutted we lost that. But wow. This team is superb. 2 trophies, CL final, 92 points in the league. And still get stick for not winning the lot? 

Superb. They are all incredible. 

The game? Madrid were great. Brilliant final. Shame we couldn't do it. Madrid deserved it.


----------



## Slime (May 28, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Gutted we lost that. But wow. This team is superb. 2 trophies, CL final, 92 points in the league. *And still get stick for not winning the lot?*

Superb. They are all incredible.

The game? Madrid were great. Brilliant final. Shame we couldn't do it. Madrid deserved it.
		
Click to expand...

Not winning the lot?
They only won two penalty shoot-outs when they were going for the quad.
Surely this will be seen as a disappointing season, as it was also for Man City?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not winning the lot?
They only won two penalty shoot-outs when they were going for the quad.
Surely this will be seen as a disappointing season, as it was also for Man City?
		
Click to expand...

Of course it’s not a disappointing season ffs

We won two trophies out of 4 and just missed out on two others , it’s disappointing to lose the final tonight and miss out on the league by 2 points but we walked away with winning two trophies - that’s more than some have won in decades


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## Canary_Yellow (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course it’s not a disappointing season ffs

We won two trophies out of 4 and just missed out on two others , it’s disappointing to lose the final tonight and miss out on the league by 2 points but we walked away with winning two trophies - that’s more than some have won in decades
		
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Anti-climactic id say. Objectively a very good season though


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## Jimaroid (May 28, 2022)

RM defence was ridiculous. 

It was a good final though, some great football from both. 

I’ve really enjoyed watching Liverpool play this year. They deserved more silver, I still think they’re the best red team in my lifetime.


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## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course it’s not a disappointing season ffs

We won two trophies out of 4 and just missed out on two others , it’s disappointing to lose the final tonight and miss out on the league by 2 points but we walked away with winning two trophies - that’s more than some have won in decades
		
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Yeah the 2 Mickey Mouse trophies lad 😉


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## Slime (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course it’s not a disappointing season ffs

We won two trophies out of 4 and just missed out on two others , it’s disappointing to lose the final tonight and miss out on the league by 2 points but we walked away with winning two trophies - that’s more than some have won in decades
		
Click to expand...

Most teams, and I include United in this, are not actually expected to win stuff, Liverpool were.
Three finals, which is very good, but they totalled 5½ hours of football and L'pool didn't score a goal!
Surely that has to be a disappointment.


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## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			RM defence was ridiculous.

It was a good final though, some great football from both.

I’ve really enjoyed watching Liverpool play this year. *They deserved more silver, *I still think they’re the best red team in my lifetime.
		
Click to expand...

Why?


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## Jimaroid (May 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Why?
		
Click to expand...

For playing great football you clown.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			Most teams, and I include United in this, are not actually expected to win stuff, Liverpool were.
Three finals, which is very good, but they totalled 5½ hours of football and L'pool didn't score a goal!
Surely that has to be a disappointment.
		
Click to expand...

Expected to win stuff ?

we weren’t expected to win the CL or the League this season - hardly anyone had us even coming 2nd or challenging 

Were you disappointed when you won a trophy on penalties ? 

Don’t care if it’s won 5 nil or on penalties- it’s a win


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## hairball_89 (May 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not winning the lot?
They only won two penalty shoot-outs when they were going for the quad.
Surely this will be seen as a disappointing season, as it was also for Man City?
		
Click to expand...

Am I disappointed? Yes. Obviously. 

But as I said, getting stick for not winning all four, considering what we did do? Mad. Absolutely mad. 

The league wasnt in our hands towards the end as is well documented. Tonight was. And overall we weren't good enough.

But that doesn't change how good this team is. And the fantastic season it has been. How many teams would give everything to have the season we've had? I'd say pretty much any of them.


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## Swango1980 (May 28, 2022)

Michael Owen just tried to justify his comment that Liverpool are the best team in Europe. 

Bizarre. Not only have they just lost the European Cup final, they aren't even the best team in England. 

Good season for them nonetheless. Scraped the FA Cup and won the Mickey Mouse trophy. I reckon it solidifies Salah in the top 20 of the Balon d'Or votes


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			Most teams, and I include United in this, are not actually expected to win stuff, Liverpool were.
Three finals, which is very good, *but they totalled 5½ hours of football and L'pool didn't score a goal!*
Surely that has to be a disappointment.
		
Click to expand...

That’s crazy 🤯


----------



## pauljames87 (May 28, 2022)




----------



## Canary_Yellow (May 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			For playing great football you clown.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf Man City probably feel the same. They’re the two best teams in Europe.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			For playing great football you clown.
		
Click to expand...

Ok so which other silverware do they “deserve”?
Personally I think City deserve the Prem,& Real deserve the CL you 🤡 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 42797

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂 love it


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			For playing great football you clown.
		
Click to expand...

Dont rise to him mate , his sum contribution in the thread is to get a reaction 



hairball_89 said:



			Am I disappointed? Yes. Obviously.

But as I said, getting stick for not winning all four, considering what we did do? Mad. Absolutely mad.

The league wasnt in our hands towards the end as is well documented. Tonight was. And overall we weren't good enough.

But that doesn't change how good this team is. And the fantastic season it has been. How many teams would give everything to have the season we've had? I'd say pretty much any of them.
		
Click to expand...

Summed up well - was fine margins at the end of the day and tonight Madrid were just that little more clinical when needed - no doubt we will go again next season


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## Canary_Yellow (May 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Ok so which other silverware do they “deserve”?
Personally I think City deserve the Prem,& Real deserve the CL you 🤡 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Real deserved the win on the night, but they didn’t deserve to beat city. So do they deserve to win the CL? Impossible to answer conclusively, its too subjective

History doesn’t remember anyway, all that matters is who actually won


----------



## Baldy Bouncer (May 28, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Gutted we lost that. But wow. This team is superb. 2 trophies, CL final, 92 points in the league. And still get stick for not winning the lot?

Superb. They are all incredible.

The game? Madrid were great. Brilliant final. Shame we couldn't do it. Madrid deserved it.
		
Click to expand...




Couldn't have put it better myself.
From just scraping into the CL places last season, to then be challenging for ALL 4 major trophies and coming so so close to doing it.....Incredible season.
So so proud.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Real deserved the win on the night, but they didn’t deserve to beat city. So do they deserve to win the CL? Impossible to answer conclusively, its too subjective
		
Click to expand...

Of course they deserved to beat City,they beat them 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dont rise to him mate , his sum contribution in the thread is to get a reaction



Summed up well - was fine margins at the end of the day and tonight Madrid were just that little more clinical when needed - no doubt we will go again next season
		
Click to expand...

Phil how much time would you say you spend arguing with people on social media?
Trying to wind other plastic fans up 🤷‍♂️
People in glass houses Phillip 😊


----------



## Swango1980 (May 28, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Real deserved the win on the night, but they didn’t deserve to beat city. So do they deserve to win the CL? Impossible to answer conclusively, its too subjective

History doesn’t remember anyway, all that matters is who actually won
		
Click to expand...

Does that mean we should just call City European Champions?


----------



## Slime (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Expected to win stuff ?

we weren’t expected to win the CL or the League this season - hardly anyone had us even coming 2nd or challenging

*Were you disappointed when you won a trophy on penalties *?

Don’t care if it’s won 5 nil or on penalties- it’s a win
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely, it means we didn't win the football match.


----------



## Canary_Yellow (May 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Does that mean we should just call City European Champions?
		
Click to expand...

Don’t ask me, I still think Norwich were the second best team in both cups this season, given we lost to Liverpool in both.


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## Jimaroid (May 28, 2022)

Is now a good time to talk about Real Madrid’s financial irregularities?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Real deserved the win on the night, but they didn’t deserve to beat city. So do they deserve to win the CL? Impossible to answer conclusively, its too subjective

History doesn’t remember anyway, all that matters is who actually won
		
Click to expand...

When it comes to the CL it’s all about getting through to the KO and then anything can happen -Madrid lost 4 times in this seasons CL but got the job done when they needed too - they deserved to win tonight and that’s all that will matter



Slime said:



			Absolutely, it means we didn't win the football match.
		
Click to expand...

You did win 🤷‍♂️

So you didn’t pick up the CL after beating Chelsea in Moscow then ? And you were disappointed with winning the CL 🤦‍♂️


----------



## IanM (May 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Is now a good time to talk about Real Madrid’s financial irregularities?
		
Click to expand...

Don't be daft.  It's Real Madrid.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Is now a good time to talk about Real Madrid’s financial irregularities?
		
Click to expand...

Seriously?? 😬
Just don’t,it’s embarrassing


----------



## Canary_Yellow (May 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When it comes to the CL it’s all about getting through to the KO and then anything can happen -Madrid lost 4 times in this seasons CL but got the job done when they needed too - they deserved to win tonight and that’s all that will matter
		
Click to expand...

It doesn’t even matter whether they deserved to win tonight or not, all that matters is that they did.


----------



## 4LEX (May 28, 2022)

Liverpool paid Real too much respect and it cost them. Liverpool were miles off their best but still created the better chances and Courtois was MOTM. It's fine margins.

As good as Liverpool are, questions have to be asked about the big game performances of the attackers as that's 3 cup finals and not a single goal scored. Two domestic cups is a very good season but they missed the ones that really count.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530604638679998469
This is probably why fans with tickets couldn’t get in & what led to the trouble.
Idiots


----------



## Tashyboy (May 28, 2022)

Bad luck Liverpool congrats to Real.


----------



## Fade and Die (May 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530604638679998469
This is probably why fans with tickets couldn’t get in & what led to the trouble.
Idiots
		
Click to expand...

Ashamed of nothing.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Is now a good time to talk about Real Madrid’s financial irregularities?
		
Click to expand...

You have to ask why they want to still continue with the Super League when they do so well in the CL


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2022)

😬😂


----------



## Tashyboy (May 28, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not winning the lot?
They only won two penalty shoot-outs when they were going for the quad.
Surely this will be seen as a disappointing season, *as it was also for Man City?*

Click to expand...

Champions, yeah am devastated. 🤔😳😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Tashyboy (May 28, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Real deserved the win on the night, but they didn’t deserve to beat city. So do they deserve to win the CL? Impossible to answer conclusively, its too subjective

History doesn’t remember anyway, all that matters is who actually won
		
Click to expand...

Personally I honestly think City never took there chances and Real did. Real therefore deserved It. It’s a recurring theme with City. Not taking there chances and it has happened for years. Now if it was only a one off re Real Madrid. Then fair enough. But they beat Chelsea, City and Liverpool by being the second best team. They beat the top three teams in the Prem. Chuck in a fantastic win against PSG. That’s more than coincidenc. It just seemed this Real team don’t know they are beat.
I thought it was a game of fine margins. Courtois played one of the best games as a keeper as I have seen in a long long time.


----------



## Beezerk (May 28, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool paid Real too much respect and it cost them. Liverpool were miles off their best but still created the better chances and Courtois was MOTM. It's fine margins.

As good as Liverpool are, questions have to be asked about the big game performances of the attackers as that's 3 cup finals and not a single goal scored. Two domestic cups is a very good season but they missed the ones that really count.
		
Click to expand...

This, plus TAA doing his usual Kyle Walker impression and ball watching for their goal.
Decent final, enjoyed most of what I saw, would have loved ET as the quality of football was great 👌


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 29, 2022)

Well done to Real, got tactics spot on.
It’s tough when your keeper had virtually nothing to do but theirs was a class MOTM performance.
But that’s cup finals for you.


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## RRidges (May 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well done to Real, got tactics spot on.
It’s tough when your keeper had virtually nothing to do but theirs was a class MOTM performance.
But that’s cup finals for you.
		
Click to expand...

I agree.
Though in the half I saw, Courtois didn't have a really difficult save to make.
L'pool seemed to be bullied out of the ball far more than normal and didn't have (weren't allowed) their normal flow.


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## clubchamp98 (May 29, 2022)

RRidges said:



			I agree.
Though in the half I saw, Courtois didn't have a really difficult save to make.
L'pool seemed to be bullied out of the ball far more than normal and didn't have (weren't allowed) their normal flow.
		
Click to expand...

The keeper was very good tonight and deserved his mom.
But we looked like we had played 4 games to many this season.
We gave the ball away to much and we’re very sloppy at times.
If Mane goes we need a proper CF 
Kane would be my choice, links play up as well as Firmino and he can finish.


----------



## RRidges (May 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The keeper was very good tonight and deserved his mom.
But we looked like we had played 4 games to many this season.
We gave the ball away to much and we’re very sloppy at times.
If Mane goes we need a proper CF
Kane would be my choice, links play up as well as Firmino and he can finish.
		
Click to expand...

Real were simply more physical than Liverpool. Some of the 'fouls' they received also seemed to be more from theatrics than actual fouls, but that, unfortunately, seems to be the modern style. Salas was the only Liverpool player who successfully probed, but with little result - from excellent defense/cover. Need a Sterling equivalent on the other side and, indeed, a target/danger in the centre. I can't see Kane moving from Spurs. Andy Carroll is apparently available and is known to the club!  All imo of course.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Reading some of the fans accounts is truly awful , riot police tear gassing the fans at the fan park just so they would leave , one end of the stadium covered in other riot police - the stories of the issues outside , disabled fans being beaten up , locals slashing and stealing from the fans , young kids being pepper sprayed - 

all whilst UEFA first blamed fans for turning up late despite them being there 3 hours before the kick off , then blamed 1000’s of ticketless fans at the turnstiles yet due to previous checks you should get to that far without a ticket and then they blamed fake tickets when most had them on their phone - sounds like the fans had a horrific experience when a CL Final is supposed to be a experience to remember for your life - where as most fans are just glad to be getting home 

This also doesn’t excuse the very small minority of pond life in both sets of fans who got in without a ticket - no doubt some “rivals” will point to them as the cause but thankfully the worlds sporting media are focussed on the real cause


Just glad that I have heard from family members and good friends that they are safe


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## Canary_Yellow (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Reading some of the fans accounts is truly awful , riot police tear gassing the fans at the fan park just so they would leave , one end of the stadium covered in other riot police - the stories of the issues outside , disabled fans being beaten up , locals slashing and stealing from the fans , young kids being pepper sprayed -

all whilst UEFA first blamed fans for turning up late despite them being there 3 hours before the kick off , then blamed 1000’s of ticketless fans at the turnstiles yet due to previous checks you should get to that far without a ticket and then they blamed fake tickets when most had them on their phone - sounds like the fans had a horrific experience when a CL Final is supposed to be a experience to remember for your life - where as most fans are just glad to be getting home

This also doesn’t excuse the very small minority of pond life in both sets of fans who got in without a ticket - no doubt some “rivals” will point to them as the cause but thankfully the worlds sporting media are focussed on the real cause


Just glad that I have heard from family members and good friends that they are safe
		
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Is that because they watched it from Leighton buzzard too? 😱😂

Just teasing on what isn’t a funny subject at all. Hard to understand how tear gas could be needed at all. Sounds like any tension was from the situation, and the situation was caused by inept organisation. Hope when the dust settles everyone is ok, but a horrible situation.


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## Bdill93 (May 29, 2022)

Probably the least entertaining CL final in recent years. Real shame to see Liverpool off their game. Not a true reflection on their ability at all, but great defensive work from Madrid and yet another CL trophy to add to their cabinets…


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

So just the Play Off left know - good luck to Forest 👍

How does everyone rate their season 

I’m going to go for : A minus 

We played every single game possible ( not sure it’s been done before ) , 64 games and just 4 defeats , won two trophies , missed out on a league by a point and lost another final 

We added two potential world class players in Konate and Diaz 

It was a disappointing end but a brilliant season 

Onto next year


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The keeper was very good tonight and deserved his mom.
*But we looked like we had played 4 games to many this season.*
We gave the ball away to much and we’re very sloppy at times.
If Mane goes we need a proper CF
Kane would be my choice, links play up as well as Firmino and he can finish.
		
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I did mention a couple of days ago re “hope Liverpool have the legs”. I was talking to a guy I met on holiday ( Liverpool fan) he said Liverpool looked “ leggy” during the wolves game. Listening to Robertson and Klopp this morning. As they mentioned it was down to not taking chances and a fantastic performance from Courtois.


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## pokerjoke (May 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I did mention a couple of days ago re “hope Liverpool have the legs”. I was talking to a guy I met on holiday ( Liverpool fan) he said Liverpool looked “ leggy” during the wolves game. Listening to Robertson and Klopp this morning. As they mentioned it was down to not taking chances and a fantastic performance from Courtois.
		
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Think they are spot on.
Chances missed first half when very dominant.
2nd half Mo Salah had a couple but the keeper was superb all match.
Don’t think Real could have complained if Liverpool scored 3
Very impressive performance from Konate.
Once again TAA showing why he clearly is not a world class RB and why Southgate ignores him in big games.
I would say Liverpool have had a very good season that could have been the best ever but clearly to win all the trophies playing that many games against top opposition is beyond even the best teams.


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## pauljames87 (May 29, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Think they are spot on.
Chances missed first half when very dominant.
2nd half Mo Salah had a couple but the keeper was superb all match.
Don’t think Real could have complained if Liverpool scored 3
Very impressive performance from Konate.
Once again TAA showing why he clearly is not a world class RB and why Southgate ignores him in big games.
I would say Liverpool have had a very good season that could have been the best ever but clearly to win all the trophies playing that many games against top opposition is beyond even the best teams.
		
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Careful. Don't bad mouth TAA .. he's untouchable.. 

Spot on tho.


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## IanM (May 29, 2022)

Yep.  No need for over analysis.   On another night the goalie wouldn't have stopped all of those and it would have been over at half time.  

The school report will say, did well, but could have done better.

Liverpool have been great to watch this year, but missed out on the two biggies.  Sometimes that happens.


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Think they are spot on.
Chances missed first half when very dominant.
2nd half Mo Salah had a couple but the keeper was superb all match.
Don’t think Real could have complained if Liverpool scored 3
Very impressive performance from Konate.
Once again TAA showing why he clearly is not a world class RB and why Southgate ignores him in big games.
I would say Liverpool have had a very good season that could have been the best ever but clearly to win all the trophies playing that many games against top opposition is beyond even the best teams.
		
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I know it’s a old cliche, but it really is fine margins. Liverpool won two cups with penalty shootout outs. Yet they missed out on the Prem Title coz City had a mad five mins V Villa. Then last night, chances not taken. I don’t think I would be that down if I was a Pool fan. I think under Klopp Liverpools fans are in a lot better place to challenge for the next X years than most clubs in the prem league. Klopp and Pep will be locking horns for a couple of years yet. Will be interesting to see what happens re players coming and going over the next couple of months in the prem.


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## Jensen (May 29, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			This, plus TAA doing his usual Kyle Walker impression and ball watching for their goal.
Decent final, enjoyed most of what I saw, would have loved ET as the quality of football was great 👌
		
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In the words of Alan Hansen “that’s terrible defending”
😂😂


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## Jensen (May 29, 2022)

Watching Sky Sports News this morning. If it’s true what’s being reported and the images are in context, then it’s absolutely disgraceful the way the Liverpool fans have been treated.


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## Don Barzini (May 29, 2022)

Biggest and most important game of the weekend coming up this afternoon at 4:30pm. 

COME ON FOREST!!!!!


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## clubchamp98 (May 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I did mention a couple of days ago re “hope Liverpool have the legs”. I was talking to a guy I met on holiday ( Liverpool fan) he said Liverpool looked “ leggy” during the wolves game. Listening to Robertson and Klopp this morning. As they mentioned it was down to not taking chances and a fantastic performance from Courtois.
		
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So many games must take their toll.
But the very important games are at the end of the season.
We controlled the game mostly.
But you must take your chances against top teams.
We played well enough to win ,but didn’t that’s football.


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## Slime (May 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Champions, yeah am devastated. 🤔😳😂😂😂😂😂
		
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But, to be fair, the Prem was almost expected, but to fail in the ECL must be a huge disappointment.
I think City achieved the absolute minimum and no more.


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## Jensen (May 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			But, to be fair, the Prem was almost expected, but to fail in the ECL must be a huge disappointment.
I think City achieved the absolute minimum and no more.
		
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I still don’t know today how they lost that semi final to Madrid


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## Stuart_C (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Ashamed of nothing.
		
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I hope and pray to god what me and my 12yr old went through last night trying to enter that ground 3hrs before KO you and your family never experience.

I've travelled all over Europe, to some of the moodiest places and i've never been so fearful.


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## SteveW86 (May 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope and pray to god what me and my 12yr old went through last night trying to enter that ground 3hrs before KO you and your family never experience.

I've travelled all over Europe, to some of the moodiest places and i've never been so fearful.
		
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Glad to hear you’re safe Stu


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## DaveR (May 29, 2022)

[QUOTE="Stuart_C, post: 2505558, membe

I hope and pray to god what me and my 12yr old went through last night trying to enter that ground 3hrs before KO you and your family never experience.

I've travelled all over Europe, to some of the moodiest places and i've never been so fearful.[/QUOTE]
Yes the authorities were bang out of order!


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## PieMan (May 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope and pray to god what me and my 12yr old went through last night trying to enter that ground 3hrs before KO you and your family never experience.

I've travelled all over Europe, to some of the moodiest places and i've never been so fearful.
		
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Hope you and your lad are OK Stu 👍


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## Stuart_C (May 29, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Watching Sky Sports News this morning. If it’s true what’s being reported and the images are in context, then it’s absolutely disgraceful the way the Liverpool fans have been treated.
		
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I was there. It was frightening with my 12yr old. 

If i'm still here when i'm back next week i'll write about it if you're intrested.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Watching Sky Sports News this morning. If it’s true what’s being reported and the images are in context, then it’s absolutely disgraceful the way the Liverpool fans have been treated.
		
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Unfortunately that won’t fit the narrative for some


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## Stuart_C (May 29, 2022)

Thanks Gents, we're safe and well luckily. 

If we were 15 minutes later god knows how we would've been.


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## Hogieefc (May 29, 2022)

The parade bus is going to look good with 2022 penalty shootout champions on the side


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## PieMan (May 29, 2022)

Hogieefc said:



			The parade bus is going to look good with 2022 penalty shootout champions on the side 

Click to expand...

As a supporter of the team they beat on penalties in both competitions I'd take that.


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## Dando (May 29, 2022)

Hogieefc said:



			The parade bus is going to look good with 2022 penalty shootout champions on the side 

Click to expand...

A wins a win. Doesn’t matter how you get it


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## PNWokingham (May 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope and pray to god what me and my 12yr old went through last night trying to enter that ground 3hrs before KO you and your family never experience.

I've travelled all over Europe, to some of the moodiest places and i've never been so fearful.
		
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Glad you were OK Stu. Sounds awful and shameful organisation. Liverpool were so unlucky. I think it could have been 3 or 4 up if they got the first away early


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## Dando (May 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Thanks Gents, we're safe and well luckily.

If we were 15 minutes later god knows how we would've been.
		
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glad you’re both ok mate


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## Pin-seeker (May 29, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530692390092263424
🤦‍♂️


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## Slime (May 29, 2022)

It looks like the United players have finally managed to get rid of Rangnick.
He's paying a price for just being honest.
The players should be forced out, not Rangnick.
Another sad day in United's recent, pathetic history.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Hogieefc said:



			The parade bus is going to look good with 2022 penalty shootout champions on the side 

Click to expand...

It’s a win 😁


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## Captainron (May 29, 2022)

Only Man City and Liverpool won silverware this season? 

No other clubs can have a parade. 

Premier league obvs. The other leagues don’t count


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530859575812968451


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## Dando (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530859575812968451

Click to expand...

Phil, I’m sure some tosspots will find a way to blame him


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Dando said:



			Phil, I’m sure some tosspots will find a way to blame him
		
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They already are mate 

Seems this is locals being let in without tickets 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530888252240150530


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## pokerjoke (May 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Thanks Gents, we're safe and well luckily.

If we were 15 minutes later god knows how we would've been.
		
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Seeing some of the reports today mate I’m glad you and your son came to no harm.
It seems some shockingly poor organisation and some unbelievable way to treat fans from both teams is to blame.
If you were scared I can only imagine what kids were feeling.
Hope everyone comes back unscathed.
Unfortunately for most it will be bad memories instead of good ones for life.


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## Fade and Die (May 29, 2022)

[QUOTE="Stuart_C, post: 2505558, member: 1740"

I hope and pray to god what me and my 12yr old went through last night trying to enter that ground 3hrs before KO you and your family never experience.

I've travelled all over Europe, to some of the moodiest places and i've never been so fearful.[/QUOTE]

How did I know it would be someone else’s fault and not your own fans without tickets bunking in? 🤷‍♂️


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## JamesR (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			How did I know it would be someone else’s fault and not your own fans without tickets bunking in? 🤷‍♂️
		
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Read the news (actual news, not the Scum or Daily Heil), watch the news, don’t assume…to name but a few ways you could have known!


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## Dando (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			How did I know it would be someone else’s fault and not your own fans without tickets bunking in? 🤷‍♂️
		
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🤡


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			How did I know it would be someone else’s fault and not your own fans without tickets bunking in? 🤷‍♂️
		
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How about read the actual facts from the people there first before jumping to conclusions


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## Fade and Die (May 29, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Read the news (actual news, not the Scum or Daily Heil), watch the news, don’t assume…to name but a few ways you could have known!
		
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On Talksport and sky, you would think the Queen had died!

Strange that the Madrid supporters managed to find their way into the stadium and take their places in time for the scheduled kick off time.🤔


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			On Talksport and sky, you would think the Queen had died!

Strange that the Madrid supporters managed to find their way into the stadium and take their places in time for the scheduled kick off time.🤔
		
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Maybe because they weren’t funnelled through one gate - again something else you would have known if you watched the actual reports 

There were people seriously hurt last night and it was close to being even worse than that and there are some that just want to point fingers at the fans.


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## Fade and Die (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How about read the actual facts from the people there first before jumping to conclusions
		
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I’ll tell you some facts..My mate worked the last 8 seasons at The Boleyn ground in the away section, Liverpool in fake ticket scandal is not new news, he told me EVERY time we played them we had hundreds of fake tickets, they used to be collected back in the day and sent to the authorities, clearly nothing has been done.


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## JamesR (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe because they weren’t funnelled through one gate - again something else you would have known if you watched the actual reports

There were people seriously hurt last night and it was close to being even worse than that and there are some that just want to point fingers at the fans.
		
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He seems to know better than everyone else…in the words of Dando … 🤡


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I’ll tell you some facts..My mate worked the last 8 seasons at The Boleyn ground in the away section, Liverpool in fake ticket scandal is not new news, he told me EVERY time we played them we had hundreds of fake tickets, they used to be collected back in the day and sent to the authorities, clearly nothing has been done.
		
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Ah the old “my mate” - so is that why you jumped to conclusions about last night then - did your mate tell you that 🙄


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## JamesR (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ah the old “my mate” - so is that why you jumped to conclusions about last night then - did your mate tell you that 🙄
		
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No, it was a bloke down the pub on this occasion


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## Fade and Die (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ah the old “my mate” - so is that why you jumped to conclusions about last night then - did your mate tell you that 🙄
		
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Look I don’t like seeing a jackass make a fool of himself so let’s just see what the UEFA investigation throws up. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if you have got us all banned again.😡


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## fundy (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Look I don’t like seeing a jackass make a fool of himself so let’s just see what the UEFA investigation throws up. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if you have got us all banned again.😡
		
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stop trolling and grow up ffs


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## JamesR (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Look I don’t like seeing a jackass make a fool of himself so let’s just see what the UEFA investigation throws up. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if you have got us all banned again.😡
		
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Put the mirror down then pal 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Look I don’t like seeing a jackass make a fool of himself so let’s just see what the UEFA investigation throws up. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if you have got us all banned again.😡
		
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You don’t appear to have an issues making a fool of yourself - the sad thing is I think is I think it’s ingrained into you and a complete lack of independent thought. Hopefully you will snap out of it and realise how dangerous the situation was last night and it’s beyond pathetic some are using it to troll and score points


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## Blue in Munich (May 29, 2022)

Captainron said:



*Only Man City and Liverpool won silverware this season?*

No other clubs can have a parade.

Premier league obvs. The other leagues don’t count
		
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Wrong; there was the UEFA Super Cup & the FIFA World Club Championship up for grabs as well, both won by an EPL club.


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## Fade and Die (May 29, 2022)

I’ll comment no more as the Big Red propaganda machine has come to life, but let’s just see if lightning has struck thrice.


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## greenone (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I’ll tell you some facts..My mate worked the last 8 seasons at The Boleyn ground in the away section, Liverpool in fake ticket scandal is not new news, he told me EVERY time we played them we had hundreds of fake tickets, they used to be collected back in the day and sent to the authorities, clearly nothing has been done.
		
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I suppose Andy Robertson was dishing out fake tickets as well? 🙄


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## Don Barzini (May 29, 2022)

Forest 1-0 up at half time. Come on!!


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## AmandaJR (May 29, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			Forest 1-0 up at half time. Come on!!
		
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Should be two at least - hope they don't rue the missed chances.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I’ll comment no more as the Big Red propaganda machine has come to life, but let’s just see if lightning has struck thrice.
		
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Take time to listen these from someone not associated with the club who was there


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530858726604910592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530851441656532993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530883475586560002
And this is the sort of thing that happened


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530845571241607168


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## AmandaJR (May 29, 2022)

On the topic of the day - BBC reporter said a few times he saw a few Liverpool fans overrun security and get in and suggested that had spooked them into reacting as they did and double and treble checking tickets which led to the delays.

The French are useless at organising anything and then also go in way too hard so there is a lot of blame in how they handled the situation.


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## JamesR (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I’ll comment no more as the Big Red propaganda machine has come to life, but let’s just see if lightning has struck thrice.
		
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I’m no Liverpool fan


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## IanM (May 29, 2022)

Weird how polarised the views are here


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## DaveR (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Look I don’t like seeing a jackass make a fool of himself so let’s just see what the UEFA investigation throws up. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if you have got us all banned again.😡
		
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As you said, rather than blame Liverpool fans just wait till the result of the investigation is made public.


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## Neilds (May 29, 2022)

How about this for a novel view:
Some Liverpool fans may have fake tickets and some may have climbed fences to get in. At the same time, some French police may have over reacted with pepper spray. Neither side is totally blameless for the issues.


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## Pin-seeker (May 29, 2022)

Neilds said:



			How about this for a novel view:
Some Liverpool fans may have fake tickets and some may have climbed fences to get in. At the same time, some French police may have over reacted with pepper spray. Neither side is totally blameless for the issues.
		
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Spot on 👍🏻


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## SteveW86 (May 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I’ll comment no more as the Big Red propaganda machine has come to life, but let’s just see if lightning has struck thrice.
		
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Only I have mentioned Sunderland in here


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## JamesR (May 29, 2022)

Neilds said:



			How about this for a novel view:
Some Liverpool fans may have fake tickets and some may have climbed fences to get in. At the same time, some French police may have over reacted with pepper spray. Neither side is totally blameless for the issues.
		
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Also, some locals, like during the issues at Wembley, tried to get in without tickets


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## adam6177 (May 29, 2022)

How on earth that got backed up as a dive rather than overturned and penalty given is beyond me.

Jon Moss needs to retire and retire quickly, what a shambles.


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## BrianM (May 29, 2022)

That is a stonewaller, what is the point in VAR when he was clearly caught and booked for his troubles.


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## adam6177 (May 29, 2022)

BrianM said:



			That is a stonewaller, what is the point in VAR when he was clearly caught and booked for his troubles.
		
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Exactly, in the dictionary next to stonewall there is a picture of that incident. What a joke.


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## pauljames87 (May 29, 2022)

BrianM said:



			That is a stonewaller, what is the point in VAR when he was clearly caught and booked for his troubles.
		
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He wasn't caught tho, he moved his leg theatrically away. If he had stayed still he would have a pen 

It's consistent with what they done this season rightly or wrongly


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## pokerjoke (May 29, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			How on earth that got backed up as a dive rather than overturned and penalty given is beyond me.

Jon Moss needs to retire and retire quickly, what a shambles.
		
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100% 
Shocking decision and var doing  what var does in backing incompetent refs.


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## BrianM (May 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He wasn't caught tho, he moved his leg theatrically away. If he had stayed still he would have a pen

It's consistent with what they done this season rightly or wrongly
		
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He was caught, so its a penalty.


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## pokerjoke (May 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He wasn't caught tho, he moved his leg theatrically away. If he had stayed still he would have a pen

It's consistent with what they done this season rightly or wrongly
		
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He was clipped


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## BrianM (May 29, 2022)

Another one.....

I'm not bothered who wins, but the decision making from the Ref and VAR is nothing short of atrocious.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Neilds said:



			How about this for a novel view:
Some Liverpool fans may have fake tickets and some may have climbed fences to get in. At the same time, some French police may have over reacted with pepper spray. Neither side is totally blameless for the issues.
		
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At the end of the day there are all the reports from the media and multiple reports from journalists- the media are pretty much United in what happened and have provided the proof - none of this “may” business 

And then you have “rival” fans with their theories and providing videos which are then being given context after

It will be up to people what they want to believe but I would hope for most that they would try and look past tribalism or trolling to see that many innocents fans got exposed to grave danger last night because of the poor organisation of UEFA and the way the police reacted - of that there is no doubt.


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## adam6177 (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It will be up to people what they want to believe but I would hope for most that they would try and look past tribalism or trolling
		
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The way this thread has been all season... No chance. I've said it for years, football rivalry brings out the worst in people.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Another one.....

I'm not bothered who wins, but the decision making from the Ref and VAR is nothing short of atrocious.
		
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Thought it wasn’t so clear for the first pen shout but the second one looked clear 🤷‍♂️


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## adam6177 (May 29, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Another one.....

I'm not bothered who wins, but the decision making from the Ref and VAR is nothing short of atrocious.
		
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If anything... At least that's consistent.  If I were a Huddersfield fan I'd be raging.


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## fundy (May 29, 2022)

well a fitting display for Jon Moss to go out on I guess

Forest been very very lucky today but hard to argue they dont deserve to come up based on their form since the change of manager


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			But, to be fair, the Prem was almost expected, but to fail in the ECL must be a huge disappointment.
I think City achieved the absolute minimum and no more.
		
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As a City fan Ave never expected anything. I spent 20 years being goaded by Utd fans asking me how many we are gonna get beat by. It was a humble trait I have learned that I don’t expect owt. To follow a Rammel team for 30 odd years to now be competing for trophies. Al take that.
Finally welcome To the premier league Forest.


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## fundy (May 29, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			The way this thread has been all season... No chance. I've said it for years, football rivalry brings out the worst in people.
		
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it brings out the worst in some for sure, but not fair to judge everyone by the idiotic minority surely?


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## AmandaJR (May 29, 2022)

Nice work Forest. David is a lifelong fan - could be tricky next season when we play!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 29, 2022)

Pleased to see Forest back in the top level - just one of these teams I’ve had a bit of a soft spot for since back in their glory days.


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## Pin-seeker (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At the end of the day there are all the reports from the media and multiple reports from journalists- the media are pretty much United in what happened and have provided the proof - none of this “may” business

And then you have “rival” fans with their theories and providing videos which are then being given context after

It will be up to people what they want to believe but I would hope for most that they would try and look past tribalism or trolling to see that many innocents fans got exposed to grave danger last night because of the poor organisation of UEFA and the way the police reacted - of that there is no doubt.
		
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Seen lots of reports & videos of Liverpool fans doing themselves no favours tbh Phil,they’re far from innocent imo.


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## AmandaJR (May 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			As a City fan Ave never expected anything. I spent 20 years being goaded by Utd fans asking me how many we are gonna get beat by. It was a humble trait I have learned that I don’t expect owt. To follow a
Rammel team for 30 odd years to now be competing for trophies. Al take that.
Finally welcome To the premier league Forest.
		
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I've said it before and I'll keep saying it - league champions above all else is what I want. I'm only bothered about us failing in the CL as Pep wants to win it...


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Nice work Forest. David is a lifelong fan - could be tricky next season when we play!
		
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😂😂😂😂😂😂
take him
To the Etihad and a few beers before in Mary Dees.


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## adam6177 (May 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			it brings out the worst in some for sure, but not fair to judge everyone by the idiotic minority surely?
		
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I completely agree with you...and that's entirely the point, the disparaging comments aimed at entire clubs supporters for the actions of a few is relentless.  I stopped reading the thread for quite some time because it's like reading playground arguments.


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## AmandaJR (May 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			😂😂😂😂😂😂
take him
To the Etihad and a few beers before in Mary Dees.
		
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He's been a few times - think Springsteen was his best memory


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## fundy (May 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Nice work Forest. David is a lifelong fan - could be tricky next season when we play!
		
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not sure youre gonna have too many problems there Amanda lol. David on the other hand........


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## GG26 (May 29, 2022)

Good to have some local rivals back in the Premier League, but how the second  Huddersfield penalty shout wasn’t given by VAR I don’t know and to be honest I think that the first one should have been at least a review by the ref as he was clipped and then booked.


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seen lots of reports & videos of Liverpool fans doing themselves no favours tbh Phil,they’re far from innocent imo.
		
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Trying to choose my words very  very carefully. Some of the things posted by some folk online have not done Liverpool any favours. But 99.9% of fans that went and followed Liverpool yesterday did not deserve that shit that went off yesterday. The FA in this country and UEFA who I do not trust one bit need to ensure that what went off yesterday never happens again.


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			He's been a few times - think Springsteen was his best memory 

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😂😂😂


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## AmandaJR (May 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			not sure youre gonna have too many problems there Amanda lol. David on the other hand........
		
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He's just said "I don't mind losing to the likes of City"  

Hope they take 6 points of United though


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## Hobbit (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At the end of the day there are all the reports from the media and multiple reports from journalists- the media are pretty much United in what happened and have provided the proof - none of this “may” business

And then you have “rival” fans with their theories and providing videos which are then being given context after

It will be up to people what they want to believe but I would hope for most that they would try and look past tribalism or trolling to see that many innocents fans got exposed to grave danger last night because of the poor organisation of UEFA and the way the police reacted - of that there is no doubt.
		
Click to expand...

So you’ve already made up your mind as to who is at fault…

Did UEFA and the police get it wrong? Or were the turnstile staff reacting to a number of fans chancing their arm with dodgy tickets? We don’t know.

We’re ‘innocent‘ fans guilty of becoming agitated as kick off time grew close and they were no where near getting in? How did they react? We, genuinely, don’t know.

I don’t have a ‘side’ in this but I do have concerns about whether or not the response was justified. If it was, which we don’t at present know, fine. If it wasn’t, I hope there won’t be a whitewash. But let’s not judge it all till we know the facts.


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## pauljames87 (May 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			He's been a few times - think Springsteen was his best memory 

Click to expand...

Cracking gig. My only ever gig to Manchester, took my kid sister as the girlfriend at the time (now wife lol) had just got together she wasn't ready for a weekend away lol her loss


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## AmandaJR (May 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Cracking gig. My only ever gig to Manchester, took my kid sister as the girlfriend at the time (now wife lol) had just got together she wasn't ready for a weekend away lol her loss
		
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Springsteen at The Etihad was just my dream come true


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## pokerjoke (May 29, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			So you’ve already made up your mind as to who is at fault…

Did UEFA and the police get it wrong? Or were the turnstile staff reacting to a number of fans chancing their arm with dodgy tickets? We don’t know.

We’re ‘innocent‘ fans guilty of becoming agitated as kick off time grew close and they were no where near getting in? How did they react? We, genuinely, don’t know.

I don’t have a ‘side’ in this but I do have concerns about whether or not the response was justified. If it was, which we don’t at present know, fine. If it wasn’t, I hope there won’t be a whitewash. But let’s not judge it all till we know the facts.
		
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Exactly 
The same people slating peoples view or bias are the same people who are getting information from media or radio or other sites.
Unless you were there you’re only speculating.
I’m sure both sides are somewhat to blame,however and it’s only once again speculation from what I’ve seen,tear-gassing kids is never on.
I’ve also seen people running past security,but I couldn’t say who’s supporters they were.


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## pauljames87 (May 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Springsteen at The Etihad was just my dream come true 

Click to expand...

I was just glad he was in the country 

Drove up from London sister got the train from uni in Norwich lol 

Second only to seeing Coldplay on the off chance at the library in North London


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## AmandaJR (May 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I was just glad he was in the country

Drove up from London sister got the train from uni in Norwich lol

Second only to seeing Coldplay on the off chance at the library in North London
		
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He's touring with the band next year - no dates in England yet but think they'll follow!


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## RichA (May 29, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			If anything... At least that's consistent.  If I were a Huddersfield fan I'd be raging.
		
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Whether they're playing for the opposition or my own team, I've always thought that any player who gets the ball into the penalty box then looks to initiate contact with a defender to win a penalty is a twit. Both of those lads could've taken a shot to score for their team but both threw a leg out sideways looking for contact. Tough💩.

The way Forest waste time when they're winning has been irritating this season.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			So you’ve already made up your mind as to who is at fault…

Did UEFA and the police get it wrong? Or were the turnstile staff reacting to a number of fans chancing their arm with dodgy tickets? We don’t know.

We’re ‘innocent‘ fans guilty of becoming agitated as kick off time grew close and they were no where near getting in? How did they react? We, genuinely, don’t know.

I don’t have a ‘side’ in this but I do have concerns about whether or not the response was justified. If it was, which we don’t at present know, fine. If it wasn’t, I hope there won’t be a whitewash. But let’s not judge it all till we know the facts.
		
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The facts have been presented by many people who were there and those facts have been supported many times over and I have made my judgement based on those facts 

We know how the fans reacted as they have told us 

We know how the police reacted as we have seen the videos 

And we know how the turnstile staff reacted because we have been told by people who were there - fans , reporters etc and see the videos 

The facts are there and the media out there covering the event are United in their delivery of those facts 

If people want to not believe those facts then fine - that’s their choice but it won’t change them


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## Pin-seeker (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The facts have been presented by many people who were there and those facts have been supported many times over and I have made my judgement based on those facts
*
We know how the fans reacted as they have told us*

We know how the police reacted as we have seen the videos

And we know how the turnstile staff reacted because we have been told by people who were there - fans , reporters etc and see the videos

The facts are there and the media out there covering the event are United in their delivery of those facts

If people want to not believe those facts then fine - that’s their choice but it won’t change them
		
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Yeah they said it so it must be true 🙄

We’ve also seen actual video footage of Liverpool fans “misbehaving”. 🤷‍♂️


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## 3offTheTee (May 29, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			So you’ve already made up your mind as to who is at fault…

Did UEFA and the police get it wrong? Or were the turnstile staff reacting to a number of fans chancing their arm with dodgy tickets? We don’t know.

We’re ‘innocent‘ fans guilty of becoming agitated as kick off time grew close and they were no where near getting in? How did they react? We, genuinely, don’t know.

I don’t have a ‘side’ in this but I do have concerns about whether or not the response was justified. If it was, which we don’t at present know, fine. If it wasn’t, I hope there won’t be a whitewash. But let’s not judge it all till we know the facts.
		
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Hope you are enjoying the match and Madrid NOW rather anything else. 1-1 at present. still 70 minutes.! Visca Rojiblancos!


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## Swango1980 (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The facts have been presented by many people who were there and those facts have been supported many times over and I have made my judgement based on those facts 

We know how the fans reacted as they have told us 

We know how the police reacted as we have seen the videos 

And we know how the turnstile staff reacted because we have been told by people who were there - fans , reporters etc and see the videos 

The facts are there and the media out there covering the event are United in their delivery of those facts 

If people want to not believe those facts then fine - that’s their choice but it won’t change them
		
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Any chance that the accounts you have heard thus far are somewhat biased? After all, I assume most of the accounts are from Liverpool fans. And, Liverpool fans will have shared their stories to reporters. And, probably most of the fans willing to share their stories were the innocent ones. I doubt if any Liverpool fans were misbehaving they would be running to share their stories?

We need to wait to hear what stadium officials, police officers, UEFA, etc have to say, and then understand why it was such a mess.


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## Hobbit (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The facts have been presented by many people who were there and those facts have been supported many times over and I have made my judgement based on those facts

We know how the fans reacted as they have told us

We know how the police reacted as we have seen the videos

And we know how the turnstile staff reacted because we have been told by people who were there - fans , reporters etc and see the videos

The facts are there and the media out there covering the event are United in their delivery of those facts

If people want to not believe those facts then fine - that’s their choice but it won’t change them
		
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I’m not saying you’re wrong, or right, I’m saying let’s get it independently verified before making that judgement. You’ve made your judgement based on what you believe is the truth. I’m saying your judgement is premature, not that it’s wrong. You may well be proven to be right…. but why isn’t there the same evidence of actions against the Madrid supporters? Did they behave the same? Is there a bias?

I’m not getting into an argument about it, although I am concerned about just what is true, I’m saying let’s get it verified by independent sources.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Any chance that the accounts you have heard thus far are somewhat biased? After all, I assume most of the accounts are from Liverpool fans. And, Liverpool fans will have shared their stories to reporters. And, probably most of the fans willing to share their stories were the innocent ones. I doubt if any Liverpool fans were misbehaving they would be running to share their stories?

We need to wait to hear what stadium officials, police officers, UEFA, etc have to say, and then understand why it was such a mess.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530846786172092418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530858726604910592
The accounts are from the media who were there and actually witnessed the events first hand and in some cases got stuck in it which one sky reporting being struck with pepper spray

Did you see the video of the fan trying to scan his ticket and then be attacked by pepper spray 

And UEFA blamed the fans for turning up late despite it being false - why believe them when there first response was to blame the fans which was then proven to be false 

And yes I have had first accounts from fans who were there and with their kids - and I see no reason why they would be lying


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## Hobbit (May 29, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Hope you are enjoying the match and Madrid NOW rather anything else. 1-1 at present. still 70 minutes.! Visca Rojiblancos!
		
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The atmosphere is awesome, and it’s our first visit to Madrid! Wish we were staying longer.

Soft first goal but I can’t see Almeria losing this.


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## Midnight (May 29, 2022)

RichA said:



			Whether they're playing for the opposition or my own team, I've always thought that any player who gets the ball into the penalty box then looks to initiate contact with a defender to win a penalty is a twit. Both of those lads could've taken a shot to score for their team but both threw a leg out sideways looking for contact. Tough💩.

The way Forest waste time when they're winning has been irritating this season.
		
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As a Forest fan, I haven't been irritated by how they play. 
In regards to the penalties, they were the sort that If given there would be no complaints. 

Roll on next season from a very happy Forest fan 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾


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## Hobbit (May 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530846786172092418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530858726604910592
The accounts are from the media who were there and actually witnessed the events first hand and in some cases got stuck in it which one sky reporting being struck with pepper spray

Did you see the video of the fan trying to scan his ticket and then be attacked by pepper spray

And UEFA blamed the fans for turning up late despite it being false - why believe them when there first response was to blame the fans which was then proven to be false

And yes I have had first accounts from fans who were there and with their kids - and I see no reason why they would be lying
		
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You’ve got first hand accounts by people who have a vested interest in their version being true, and it might be the case, but just because your best buddy says…

I watched Sky this morning and it reminded me of media reports I read in 3 decent broadsheets 40 years ago. All 3 were significantly different. Was the reporter telling the truth this morning? Possibly yes, but I’ll wait on the full report before I get the pitchfork out.


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## pauljames87 (May 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			He's touring with the band next year - no dates in England yet but think they'll follow!
		
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Might have to miss but least I've seen him, I'm gutted I had tickets for the foos when they cancelled a few years ago then couldn't make the rescheduled gig.. prob never tour again now after that tragic death


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## Hobbit (May 29, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			The atmosphere is awesome, and it’s our first visit to Madrid! Wish we were staying longer.

Soft first goal but I can’t see Almeria losing this.
		
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Nooooo!


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## Golfmmad (May 29, 2022)

Back to the game last night. 
Liverpool were the better team first half. Cortios was outstanding. 
I'm sure the wily old Ancelotti said to his players at half time, Liverpool have run themselves ragged, stay cool guys and take your chance when it comes. They did just that! The only real chance they had all game. 
I also think that Real's defence was superb, any other team and l'pool would have been two or three up at half time. 
Watching Klopp walk out after half time he looked as if he knew their chance was gone - seemed he had no enthusiasm and body language said it all. 
TAA was disappointing, his corners and free kicks came to nothing and his shooting way off. 
In the second half Real increased the press and Liverpool started to give the ball away more and more, which they didn't in the first half. 
To finish, I'd say Real Madrid got their tactics spot on and their resolute defence would never have let Liverpool score the goal that they did. 
So well done Liverpool for putting up a great fight and making a game of it.


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## clubchamp98 (May 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			As a City fan Ave never expected anything. I spent 20 years being goaded by Utd fans asking me how many we are gonna get beat by. It was a humble trait I have learned that I don’t expect owt. To follow a Rammel team for 30 odd years to now be competing for trophies. Al take that.
Finally welcome To the premier league Forest.
		
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Lad I worked with was a die hard City fan.
Home and away he’d go.
So I am made up for him and City fans like you.
But the green eyed monster is alive and well, just look at some of the comments about fans with their kids with them last night..
This forum is getting very nasty ..


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## DaveR (May 29, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			You’ve got first hand accounts by people who have a vested interest in their version being true, and it might be the case, but just because your best buddy says…

I watched Sky this morning and it reminded me of media reports I read in 3 decent broadsheets 40 years ago. All 3 were significantly different. Was the reporter telling the truth this morning? Possibly yes, but I’ll wait on the full report before I get the pitchfork out.
		
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I'm not sure I would trust any 'independant' report from UEFA.


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## clubchamp98 (May 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Springsteen at The Etihad was just my dream come true 

Click to expand...

What position does he play.


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## AmandaJR (May 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			What position does he play.
		
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Best frontman out there


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## clubchamp98 (May 29, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Back to the game last night.
Liverpool were the better team first half. Cortios was outstanding.
I'm sure the wily old Ancelotti said to his players at half time, Liverpool have run themselves ragged, stay cool guys and take your chance when it comes. They did just that! The only real chance they had all game.
I also think that Real's defence was superb, any other team and l'pool would have been two or three up at half time.
Watching Klopp walk out after half time he looked as if he knew their chance was gone - seemed he had no enthusiasm and body language said it all.
TAA was disappointing, his corners and free kicks came to nothing and his shooting way off.
In the second half Real increased the press and Liverpool started to give the ball away more and more, which they didn't in the first half.
To finish, I'd say Real Madrid got their tactics spot on and their resolute defence would never have let Liverpool score the goal that they did.
So well done Liverpool for putting up a great fight and making a game of it.
		
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Agree with most of this but if Reals defence was that good how come we got so many chances.
We lost because we never took just one. Some great keeping but some poor finishing.
Real had two chances and scored both.
I still think the offside one was a goal, but the ludicrous rules say it wasn’t.


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## clubchamp98 (May 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Best frontman out there 

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You won’t need Harland then?
But can he sing ?


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## clubchamp98 (May 29, 2022)

DaveR said:



			I'm not sure I would trust any 'independant' report from UEFA.
		
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Get Sue Gray in!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2022)

DaveR said:



			I'm not sure I would trust any 'independant' report from UEFA.
		
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They are already passing the Buck 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530932310140395520


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2022)

🤔😳😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Tashyboy (May 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			You won’t need Harland then?
But can he sing ?
		
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Back to football City have a striker from Argentina. He currently plays for River plate. Haaland was seen at the weekend wearing a football shirt of Boca juniors the sworn enemies of River plate. That would not go down well


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## 3offTheTee (May 29, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Nooooo!
		
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Close call in the end. You will be able to go to Valencia, San Sebastián and Barca next season!

Great result. we alway pass Eibar’s ground when going between Bilbao and San Sebastain.

Tenerife v Las Palmas in the play off. Really big rivals and looking forward to the games.


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## 4LEX (May 29, 2022)

Liverpool fans are getting a bad rep based on previous. As far as I'm concerned, the issues are mostly at the feet of the local Police and authorities for poor crowd control. Way more locals stormed the gates or jumped fences than Liverpool fans and little has been mentioned about that.

The good thing now is many YouTubers or bloggers have GoPro's and have recorded the footage so the truth will emerge..


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## Don Barzini (May 30, 2022)

Phew, woke up this morning to realise it wasn’t all a dream. Forest really are on their way to the Prem! COYR!!!!


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## Orikoru (May 30, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			Phew, woke up this morning to realise it wasn’t all a dream. Forest really are on their way to the Prem! COYR!!!!
		
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I'm very pleased - just like Leeds I see Forest as a big club and a Premier League team of my youth, so it will be great to see them back in the top flight.


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## backwoodsman (May 30, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			Phew, woke up this morning to realise it wasn’t all a dream. Forest really are on their way to the Prem! COYR!!!!
		
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Ditto. Seems it really did happen. 

Our glory days are 40 years past - let's hope the next batch aren't still 40 years distant!!


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## Don Barzini (May 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm very pleased - just like Leeds I see Forest as a big club and a Premier League team of my youth, so it will be great to see them back in the top flight.
		
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Thanks mate. Seen and heard a lot of neutrals wishing us well before and after the game, which is nice.

Was far from a vintage performance and felt Huddersfield were treated unfairly on the second penalty shout. But we got the result and when you consider we were rock bottom of the table when Coops took over, I don’t think anyone can say it wasn’t deserved.

We haven’t had much to cheer about for the last thirty years or so, so it’s nice to be back in the big time. Fingers crossed we can stay there.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 30, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			Thanks mate. Seen and heard a lot of neutrals wishing us well before and after the game, which is nice.

Was far from a vintage performance and felt Huddersfield were treated unfairly on the second penalty shout. But we got the result and when you consider we were rock bottom of the table when Coops took over, I don’t think anyone can say it wasn’t deserved.

We haven’t had much to cheer about for the last thirty years or so, so it’s nice to be back in the big time. Fingers crossed we can stay there.
		
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Do you think you need to add much to the team? I don't follow the Championship too closely so have only seen the odd game. Do you have goal scorers for example?


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## Don Barzini (May 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think you need to add much to the team? I don't follow the Championship too closely so have only seen the odd game. Do you have goal scorers for example?
		
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Brennan Johnson is our big star and there’s been a lot of talk around him and whether we can tempt him to stay. He only has a year left on his contract and has attracted interest from a few Prem sides. Hopefully now that promotion is confirmed he’ll sign up for longer. 

Four guys who have been important have only been with us on loan. Djed Spence from Middlesbrough, Philip Zinkernagel from Watford, James Garner from Man Utd and Keinan Davies from Villa. 

Would def like to keep Spence, Garner and Davies. Spence is a possibility as he’s attracted interest from a few Prem sides and I think Middlesbrough want rid of him. Hopefully he’s happy enough to sign but may want a bigger club. Apparently the others aren’t for sale though. 

So short answer to your question is yes, we’ll def need to spend some of that £170m we supposedly get for winning yesterday!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 30, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			Brennan Johnson is our big star and there’s been a lot of talk around him and whether we can tempt him to stay. He only has a year left on his contract and has attracted interest from a few Prem sides. Hopefully now that promotion is confirmed he’ll sign up for longer.

Four guys who have been important have only been with us on loan. Djed Spence from Middlesbrough, Philip Zinkernagel from Watford, James Garner from Man Utd and Keinan Davies from Villa.

Would def like to keep Spence, Garner and Davies. Spence is a possibility as he’s attracted interest from a few Prem sides and I think Middlesbrough want rid of him. Hopefully he’s happy enough to sign but may want a bigger club. Apparently the others aren’t for sale though.

So short answer to your question is yes, we’ll def need to spend some of that £170m we supposedly get for winning yesterday!
		
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I did laugh when someone said that this was the richest game in football but in reality it is not as the money gets taken in agents fees, transfers and higher wages (their statement, not mine). All too true sadly. 

I know Everton were keen on Johnson but I hope that he stays with you for this coming season. It would be a shame if key players left just as you reached the PL. Let's see what your best team can do. The difference for you coming in to the PL is that your loan signings can all crank up a notch as the big boys want their players to get a good quality of experience and you can offer that now. You may not get a Connor Gallagher but you may get the next lad on the rank. Your manager, director of football, scouts etc all need to earn their money during the summer.

I hope you can do a Brentford and stay up.


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## Swango1980 (May 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I did laugh when someone said that this was the richest game in football but in reality it is not as the money gets taken in agents fees, transfers and higher wages (their statement, not mine). All too true sadly.

I know Everton were keen on Johnson but I hope that he stays with you for this coming season. It would be a shame if key players left just as you reached the PL. Let's see what your best team can do. The difference for you coming in to the PL is that your loan signings can all crank up a notch as the big boys want their players to get a good quality of experience and you can offer that now. You may not get a Connor Gallagher but you may get the next lad on the rank. Your manager, director of football, scouts etc all need to earn their money during the summer.

I hope you can do a Brentford and stay up.
		
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But, surely it is still the richest game in football? Just because a club decides to use that money, resulting in higher expenditures is surely irrelevant. If a club is successful in the richest game in football, then you'd expect them to spend more money than before they won it. However, that is up to the club to manage. After all, they could technically not spend any of it, pretty much keep the same squad and hope for the best. And, if they get relegated, they still have a large amount of money wasting away in their bank account that they didn't spend.


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## RichA (May 30, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			Brennan Johnson is our big star and there’s been a lot of talk around him and whether we can tempt him to stay. He only has a year left on his contract and has attracted interest from a few Prem sides. Hopefully now that promotion is confirmed he’ll sign up for longer. 

Four guys who have been important have only been with us on loan. Djed Spence from Middlesbrough, Philip Zinkernagel from Watford, James Garner from Man Utd and Keinan Davies from Villa. 

Would def like to keep Spence, Garner and Davies. Spence is a possibility as he’s attracted interest from a few Prem sides and I think Middlesbrough want rid of him. Hopefully he’s happy enough to sign but may want a bigger club. Apparently the others aren’t for sale though. 

So short answer to your question is yes, we’ll def need to spend some of that £170m we supposedly get for winning yesterday!
		
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It'll be nice to keep the lads who helped get us promoted, whether we buy them or extend the loans.
Forest is as good a place to be as any other mid-table or relegation battling team. You'd hope BJ would rather play every game for us rather than warm the bench at one of the big 6. As always, I guess it depends what silly money they and the club are offered.
An old fashioned poacher striker would be a good addition, but I guess every team in the country is looking for one of those.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 30, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			But, surely it is still the richest game in football? Just because a club decides to use that money, resulting in higher expenditures is surely irrelevant. If a club is successful in the richest game in football, then you'd expect them to spend more money than before they won it. However, that is up to the club to manage. After all, they could technically not spend any of it, pretty much keep the same squad and hope for the best. And, if they get relegated, they still have a large amount of money wasting away in their bank account that they didn't spend.
		
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What you is right but the reality is largely different. I believe Norwich did what you said first time up recently in order to put the club on a better financial footing. They went down that year but bounced back up again, only to be repeated of course. The reality is that most clubs will need to pay their players more, most likely to be in their contracts, for being in the PL. They will need to buy better players to survive and you pay a premium for being a PL club. It is a cycle that few seem able to break. You only have to see the table released each year swhowing the % of income spent on wages to see the reality of what happens.


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## Swango1980 (May 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What you is right but the reality is largely different. I believe Norwich did what you said first time up recently in order to put the club on a better financial footing. They went down that year but bounced back up again, only to be repeated of course. The reality is that most clubs will need to pay their players more, most likely to be in their contracts, for being in the PL. They will need to buy better players to survive and you pay a premium for being a PL club. It is a cycle that few seem able to break. You only have to see the table released each year swhowing the % of income spent on wages to see the reality of what happens.
		
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Indeed. But the reason they are spending more money is largely due to the fact they won the "richest game in football". If player contracts are written so that wages increase if they get into the PL, it is because the club are aware that there will be more money to do this if they get into the PL. However, just because a club win the "richest game in football" obviously does not make them the richest club in football. All other teams within the PL also benefit from the money in the PL, so it will still be a fight for a newly promoted club to stay in the PL.

However, by winning the Championship playoff, clearly that is worth more money to that club that pretty much any other victory in any match. There are the direct incomes the club is likely to get, but also potential increases to sponsorship. It is probably great for the city / town itself, as it puts it on the map to millions of football fans, and improves investment into the area.


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## Midnight (May 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think you need to add much to the team? I don't follow the Championship too closely so have only seen the odd game. Do you have goal scorers for example?
		
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I think we have to add to the team and some of our big players like BJ and JW will have clauses put into contract I. E if relegated then they can look to go on the transfer list. 

I'm very exited for the upcoming season and very interested in who we sign. 

I don't want to go through a play off again, don't think my nerves could handle it.


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## Don Barzini (May 30, 2022)

Midnight said:



			I don't want to go through a play off again, don't think my nerves could handle it.
		
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Same here. Blood pressure and stress levels off the scale for both semi and final!


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## ColchesterFC (May 30, 2022)

Just heard the French Interior Minister saying that 70% of the tickets that Liverpool fans had we're fake. The Liverpool allocation was 20000. That means that there were more than 46000 Liverpool fans trying to get in with fake tickets. I find that very hard to believe.


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## Slime (May 30, 2022)

I don't know what to believe ......................................... because I wasn't there!


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## Slime (May 30, 2022)

Sad news about Andy Goram, really sad.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just heard the French Interior Minister saying that 70% of the tickets that Liverpool fans had we're fake. The Liverpool allocation was 20000. That means that there were more than 46000 Liverpool fans trying to get in with fake tickets. I find that very hard to believe.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531252864651231233
The minister stated that 30,000 to 40,000 fans turned up at the stadium without tickets trying to get in - yet there is zero evidence to show this 

It’s organisations once again covering up and pointing the finger to blame at the fans and “hooligans” -


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531207421678473217


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## Mel Smooth (May 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just heard the French Interior Minister saying that 70% of the tickets that Liverpool fans had we're fake. The Liverpool allocation was 20000. That means that there were more than 46000 Liverpool fans trying to get in with fake tickets. I find that very hard to believe.
		
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Leeds would have taken more.....


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## clubchamp98 (May 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531252864651231233
The minister stated that 30,000 to 40,000 fans turned up at the stadium without tickets trying to get in - yet there is zero evidence to show this

It’s organisations once again covering up and pointing the finger to blame at the fans and “hooligans” -


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531207421678473217

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They won’t be able to do that these days.
There is so much phone/ media evidence to prove that is wrong.
But UEFA will still try it.


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## 3offTheTee (May 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just heard the French Interior Minister saying that 70% of the tickets that Liverpool fans had we're fake. The Liverpool allocation was 20000. That means that there were more than 46000 Liverpool fans trying to get in with fake tickets. I find that very hard to believe.
		
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The figure quoted cannot be correct. The attendance I saw was 75,000 less 66,000 which to my reckoning means there were only 9,000 other fans etc!


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## Aztecs27 (May 30, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			Phew, woke up this morning to realise it wasn’t all a dream. Forest really are on their way to the Prem! COYR!!!!
		
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Quite. Woke up this morning, barely able to move and still can’t believe we’ll finally be back on MOTD next season. 

A playoff final win at Wembley is a day I will never, ever forget. Truly magical from start to finish. It wasn’t our best performance, Huddersfield should probably had a pen shout or two (which King Samba would have saved anyway 😉), but we’ve had plenty of those against us this season (Cooper has had direct apologies from officials after at least two games), so we’re due a bit of luck. But all that said, I could care less either way as WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE. Bonkers. 23 years.

Looking forward to seeing what transfers they do to strengthen the squad in the summer. Usually I’d be apprehensive but given the quality of their January window, I’m optimistic and excited about the squad they can build now Marinakis has said he’ll open his cheque book and give them what they need to build it.


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## backwoodsman (May 31, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			Brennan Johnson is our big star and there’s been a lot of talk around him and whether we can tempt him to stay. He only has a year left on his contract and has attracted interest from a few Prem sides. Hopefully now that promotion is confirmed he’ll sign up for longer.

Four guys who have been important have only been with us on loan. Djed Spence from Middlesbrough, Philip Zinkernagel from Watford, James Garner from Man Utd and Keinan Davies from Villa.

Would def like to keep Spence, Garner and Davies. Spence is a possibility as he’s attracted interest from a few Prem sides and I think Middlesbrough want rid of him. Hopefully he’s happy enough to sign but may want a bigger club. Apparently the others aren’t for sale though.

So short answer to your question is yes, we’ll def need to spend some of that £170m we supposedly get for winning yesterday!
		
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And hopefully we'll keep Joe Worrell. (I though he was Reds through & through - was shocked to hear talk of a potential move).


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## Tashyboy (May 31, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Quite. Woke up this morning, barely able to move and still can’t believe we’ll finally be back on MOTD next season.

A playoff final win at Wembley is a day I will never, ever forget. Truly magical from start to finish. It wasn’t our best performance, Huddersfield should probably had a pen shout or two (which King Samba would have saved anyway 😉), but we’ve had plenty of those against us this season (Cooper has had direct apologies from officials after at least two games), so we’re due a bit of luck. But all that said, I could care less either way as WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE. Bonkers. 23 years.

Looking forward to seeing what transfers they do to strengthen the squad in the summer. Usually I’d be apprehensive but given the quality of their January window, I’m optimistic and excited about the squad they can build now Marinakis has said he’ll open his cheque book and give them what they need to build it.
		
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I don’t think the day will ever leave your favourite memories re the tricky trees.  I say that because I went to Wembley and watched the game in a pub called the post office Between City and Gillingham. A game that has gone down in folklore. Hopefully it will kickstart Forests happy days again.👍


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## Patster1969 (May 31, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Quite. Woke up this morning, barely able to move and still can’t believe we’ll finally be back on MOTD next season.

A playoff final win at Wembley is a day I will never, ever forget. Truly magical from start to finish. It wasn’t our best performance, Huddersfield should probably had a pen shout or two (which King Samba would have saved anyway 😉), but we’ve had plenty of those against us this season (Cooper has had direct apologies from officials after at least two games), so we’re due a bit of luck. But all that said, I could care less either way as WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE. Bonkers. 23 years.

Looking forward to seeing what transfers they do to strengthen the squad in the summer. Usually I’d be apprehensive but given the quality of their January window, I’m optimistic and excited about the squad they can build now Marinakis has said he’ll open his cheque book and give them what they need to build it.
		
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I've very happy that Forest have been promoted (although I'm not a fan). A friend of mine moved up there years ago and his son (being born up there) was a massive fan but died tragically last year from an undiagnosed heart condition two months before his 18th birthday.
He would have been so happy that they got promoted - tinged with sadness that he wasn't able to witness it though.


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## Mel Smooth (May 31, 2022)

Opened up Twitter on my old phone this morning, and this was on my business twitter page.

Bet Westwood wasn't quite so critical of VAR and the officials on Sunday ;-)


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The referee and or VAR referee or lack of have changed the outcome of that game. I don’t understand how so called professionals can get decisions so wrong when all they are entrusted with is watching a tv screen. Plus it’s normally in slow motion and they have time.🤷🏽‍♂️ <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CHENEW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#CHENEW</a></p>&mdash; Lee Westwood (@WestwoodLee) <a href="



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503037482144829448">March 13, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


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## Aztecs27 (Jun 1, 2022)

Patster1969 said:



			I've very happy that Forest have been promoted (although I'm not a fan). A friend of mine moved up there years ago and his son (being born up there) was a massive fan but died tragically last year from an undiagnosed heart condition two months before his 18th birthday.
He would have been so happy that they got promoted - tinged with sadness that he wasn't able to witness it though.
		
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I hear you. My sister’s dad is the reason I’m a fan. Lived opposite the city ground for years (my sister lives there now), and a lifelong season ticket holder; until cancer got him 10 years ago. 

I took a picture of him with me to Wembley on Sunday, as I wanted to make sure he was there. He would have loved to see us finally make it back.


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## Jensen (Jun 1, 2022)

I see Man United are not renewing Pogbas contract at the end of the month.
He’s completely underachieved and been a big disappointment. He’s cost them a fortune in wages and transfer fee.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I see Man United are not renewing Pogbas contract at the end of the month.
He’s completely underachieved and been a big disappointment. He’s cost them a fortune in wages and transfer fee.
		
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Must be close to being one of the biggest flops worst transfers in history 

He was superb for Juventus and then for France in the World Cup when they won 

He has all the ability to be one of the best in the world but not sure if it’s application, poor tactics , attitude or just the pace of the Prem that just doesn’t suit him 

If someone can get the best out of him then he is a hell of player


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## Jensen (Jun 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Must be close to being one of the biggest flops worst transfers in history

He was superb for Juventus and then for France in the World Cup when they won

He has all the ability to be one of the best in the world but not sure if it’s application, poor tactics , attitude or just the pace of the Prem that just doesn’t suit him

If someone can get the best out of him then he is a hell of player
		
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Personally, I think his application and attitude has really let him down


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## Tashyboy (Jun 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Personally, I think his application and attitude has really let him down
		
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I believe him going is the club talking a step in the right directio.


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## Slime (Jun 1, 2022)

Good riddance to toxic waste, that's my take on it.
It's much sadder seeing Lingard go, at least he tried!


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## fundy (Jun 1, 2022)

some miss from Mcginn that, couldve set up a fun finish


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## paddyc (Jun 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			some miss from Mcginn that, couldve set up a fun finish
		
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Miss of the century that.last 10 mins going to be Interesting now.


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## fundy (Jun 1, 2022)

fair play to Ukraine, deserved winners, had several chances to put the game to bed! have to worry they may not have the legs to go again at the weekend against Wales, but if they play like this theyll have every chance


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## IanM (Jun 1, 2022)

Better team won.

They'll be too knackered to play Bale and his chums though


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## Swango1980 (Jun 2, 2022)

So, it seems the Nations League has sold the broadcasting rights to Premier Sports? Who pays for that? I can imagine much less than Sky and BT subscribers. Hopefully that is the death of the Nations League, if barely anyone can watch it


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## Billysboots (Jun 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			Good riddance to toxic waste, that's my take on it.
It's much sadder seeing Lingard go, at least he tried!
		
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Rumours have been circulating for years that Lingard is more disruptive in the dressing room than Pogba.


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Rumours have been circulating for years that Lingard is more disruptive in the dressing room than Pogba.
		
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yet was fine in the West Ham one under Moyes


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## Billysboots (Jun 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			yet was fine in the West Ham one under Moyes 

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He was excellent at West Ham, but there’s a reason he was continually overlooked at Old Trafford. It’s certainly not a lack of talent.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			yet was fine in the West Ham one under Moyes 

Click to expand...

No reported issues at Leicester, derby , Birmingham, Brighton or with any England manager


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## fundy (Jun 2, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			He was excellent at West Ham, but there’s a reason he was continually overlooked at Old Trafford. It’s certainly not a lack of talent.
		
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maybe if they hadnt continually overlooked him despite having no midfield he may have been better in the dressing room


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## Billysboots (Jun 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			No reported issues at Leicester, derby , Birmingham, Brighton or with any England manager
		
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No _reported_ issues at United, either. But think back a few years to Roy Keane’s comments about some of United’s youngsters playing half a dozen games and adopting a superstar persona, rocking up for training in their Lamborghinis and Bentleys. That was the start of an apparent culture at the club where too many players behaved as though the game owed them a living, which many Old Trafford regulars believe was one of the issues which prompted the decline which has continued ever since. Think back also to Mourinho saying that taking United to a second placed finish ranked as one of his best managerial achievements. 

The tail has been wagging the dog for a decade, and the longer it has continued the more many believe that manager after manager has not had the backing from above to sort the problem out. The lack of unity has been clear for all to see in performances for eighteen months, but it started before that. The repeated failure of the club to move players on hasn’t helped, because it means any malcontents have remained on the fringes, both at Carrington and in match day squads. 

I’ve believed it for some considerable time - United’s failures in the transfer market have been as much about who they haven’t cleared out as it has been who they have brought in. The new manager needs to purge the squad and almost start from scratch.


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## Orikoru (Jun 2, 2022)

Isn't Lingard best mates with Pogba from when they were in the youth team? That might not have helped.


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## 4LEX (Jun 2, 2022)

Called it at the time but what an awful appointment Rangnick was. Zero experience of managing a top club and this role as a consultant was absurd. Clearly for the best Utd got rid of him but it shows nothing has changed, the club is still run by those who don't have a clue. It now appears Ten Hag has total control of everything, which isn't how modern and successful clubs operate. A manager with a modest CV coming into the biggest club in the country and running the show is a recipe for disaster.


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2022)

I see Ralf Rangnick proving what an awful manager he is again tonight


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## BiMGuy (Jun 3, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Called it at the time but what an awful appointment Rangnick was. Zero experience of managing a top club and this role as a consultant was absurd. Clearly for the best Utd got rid of him but it shows nothing has changed, the club is still run by those who don't have a clue. It now appears Ten Hag has total control of everything, which isn't how modern and successful clubs operate. A manager with a modest CV coming into the biggest club in the country and running the show is a recipe for disaster.
		
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But he didn’t take over a top club, so his experience was perfectly adequate 😉.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 4, 2022)

Interesting England team 

Justin and Trent as wing backs .. like 

Bellingham and rice .. like

Mount and Bowen behind kane. . like

Not sure of maigure on side of a 3.. does he have the pace?


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## adam6177 (Jun 4, 2022)

Have you seen anyone in the crowd with a horn?  I'm beginning to think it's put in by the TV company.


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## Slime (Jun 4, 2022)

adam6177 said:



*Have you seen anyone in the crowd with a horn? * I'm beginning to think it's put in by the TV company.
		
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No, the football's been awful.


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## Billysboots (Jun 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			No, the football's been awful. 

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And the crowd is predominantly children. 😳


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 4, 2022)

Not sure about that Kane wants to be a holding midfielder not a CF.

We were awful.
They were the better team second half.
At least the ref got in the headlines with that “ pen”[/QUOTE]


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## pauljames87 (Jun 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure about that Kane wants to be a holding midfielder not a CF.

We were awful.
They were the better team second half.
At least the ref got in the headlines with that “ pen”
		
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I was very disappointed.. the team looks good on paper but was all over shop

Bellingham was off.. rice was off 

Bowen looked lively but everyone else looked on the beach until we brought on grealish and stones 

What's grealish got to do to start? 

That pen was a joke. He had already won the ball why even bother with leaning into him


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I was very disappointed.. the team looks good on paper but was all over shop

Bellingham was off.. rice was off

Bowen looked lively but everyone else looked on the beach until we brought on grealish and stones

What's grealish got to do to start?

That pen was a joke. He had already won the ball why even bother with leaning into him
		
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Yes agree on paper.
But what is GS saying to them.
Pity for Bowen to start in an underperforming team but he had a couple of chances ,thought he did well.

What the ref is doing there. Where is your body mass supposed to go when you hook a ball away like that.
He looked like it was all about him.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree on paper.
But what is GS saying to them.
Pity for Bowen to start in an underperforming team but he had a couple of chances ,thought he did well.

What the ref is doing there. Where is your body mass supposed to go when you hook a ball away like that.
He looked like it was all about him.
		
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When the ref blew the whistle, I just assumed he was giving offside or a free kick to England for something. Took a while to realise he was pointing to the spot. Couldn't believe it. Good job there is VAR...

It was probably a game that is at the wrong time of the season for England. Most players have probably already mentally (and physically) turned off after their club season. Don't blame them either. Bigger game for Hungary, so easier for their players to be more invested in the game.

Think Southgate could have made tactical changes much earlier than he did.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			When the ref blew the whistle, I just assumed he was giving offside or a free kick to England for something. Took a while to realise he was pointing to the spot. Couldn't believe it. Good job there is VAR...

It was probably a game that is at the wrong time of the season for England. Most players have probably already mentally (and physically) turned off after their club season. Don't blame them either. Bigger game for Hungary, so easier for their players to be more invested in the game.

Think Southgate could have made tactical changes much earlier than he did.
		
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That’s the problem for me.
What we were doing wasn’t really working but like for like substitutes didn’t change anything.
If Grealish can’t get in that team he might as well stay at home.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 5, 2022)

Wales v Ukraine been a good game.
Embarrassing for VAR how that’s not a pen for Ukraine.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Wales v Ukraine been a good game.
Embarrassing for VAR how that’s not a pen for Ukraine.
		
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It's been a cracker. Loads of chances, Ukraine have missed stacks, credit to Hennessy.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's been a cracker. Loads of chances, Ukraine have missed stacks, credit to Hennessy.
		
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Well done to wales !
Better game than that dross yesterday.
Nice bit of class from Bale and wales players going to the Ukraine fans.
Think Ukraine just lack a proper finisher.
Some tasty challenges, World Cup place up for grabs.

Where England looked like they didn’t want to be there yesterday.


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## IanM (Jun 5, 2022)

Bale's Boyos at the World Cup.   Well I never!


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## Imurg (Jun 5, 2022)

Wales didn't get the memo then....


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## fundy (Jun 5, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Wales didn't get the memo then....
		
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nor did the ref......


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well done to wales !
Better game than that dross yesterday.
Nice bit of class from Bale and wales players going to the Ukraine fans.
Think Ukraine just lack a proper finisher.
Some tasty challenges, World Cup place up for grabs.

Where England looked like they didn’t want to be there yesterday.
		
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To be fair, what really was the point of the England game? I can't blame the players for being disinterested. 

Wales, Ukraine, they had everything to play for and gave everything they had. You couldn't ask for more. Fair play to the ref for giving allowances for some of the challenges, it was a proper match. 

Agree about Ukraine missing a striker. They had so many chances, quite a few players will be having sleepless nights tonight.


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## Voyager EMH (Jun 5, 2022)

Ei gwrol ryfelwyr

Must apply to the players on both sides this time

Great game


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## 4LEX (Jun 5, 2022)

Well done Wales, defended so well and had that luck they needed!


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## pauljames87 (Jun 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, what really was the point of the England game? I can't blame the players for being disinterested.

Wales, Ukraine, they had everything to play for and gave everything they had. You couldn't ask for more. Fair play to the ref for giving allowances for some of the challenges, it was a proper match.

Agree about Ukraine missing a striker. They had so many chances, quite a few players will be having sleepless nights tonight.
		
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Very good and underappreciated point 

Rice I'll use as example as he is (currently) ours so I follow him more 

35 games season before last 
Full world cup
50 games this season 

He is knackered 

Compare that to bale 

34 games all comps season before last 

Less games in world Cup
11 games this season

Bigger game, meant so much

Can see why they were up for it


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## fundy (Jun 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Very good and underappreciated point

Rice I'll use as example as he is (currently) ours so I follow him more

35 games season before last
Full world cup
50 games this season

He is knackered

Compare that to bale

34 games all comps season before last

Less games in world Cup
11 games this season

Bigger game, meant so much

Can see why they were up for it
		
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lol, comparing a one off game to qualify for the world cup for the first time in 64 years with as KDB so correctly put it "a glorified friendly"

plenty of english clubs managers need to look at themselves as to why some of their players are so knackered, yours and ours are definitely included in that, but not sure Bale the best of comparators unless you include the amount of holes hes played too


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## pauljames87 (Jun 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol, comparing a one off game to qualify for the world cup for the first time in 64 years with as KDB so correctly put it "a glorified friendly"

plenty of english clubs managers need to look at themselves as to why some of their players are so knackered, yours and ours are definitely included in that, but not sure Bale the best of comparators unless you include the amount of holes hes played too 

Click to expand...

Very true I forgot to add his golf rounds 

Maybe he should have gone for the Liv tour? Would be crackin 

Yes we need more depth..it's disgusting


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## GB72 (Jun 5, 2022)

You do have to question the point of some games, especially when there is so much made about player welfare. End if a very long season, world cup year and straight into a meaningless match (dress it up as the nation's league all you like but still meaningless). Same with rugby, long season every week stories about player welfare and yet all the international teams are off on southern hemisphere tours as soon as the season ends. Are they really necessary


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## fundy (Jun 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Very true I forgot to add his golf rounds

Maybe he should have gone for the Liv tour? Would be crackin

Yes we need more depth..it's disgusting
		
Click to expand...


the problem is, even with more depth, Moyes would still have kept playing Rice, the same as Arteta would with Saka

how many games for eg did Rice play in cup games, Europa league games when you were through and the league when he shouldve been focussing on europe?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			the problem is, even with more depth, Moyes would still have kept playing Rice, the same as Arteta would with Saka

how many games for eg did Rice play in cup games, Europa league games when you were through and the league when he shouldve been focussing on europe?
		
Click to expand...

Think he missed one game when he was suspended (Liverpool away)

And missed one Europa game I believe when we had qualified

Rumoured players we are after .. I know won't happen.. JWP, Phillips zinchenko.. any of them would be a great replacement for rice for rotation


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, what really was the point of the England game? I can't blame the players for being disinterested.

Wales, Ukraine, they had everything to play for and gave everything they had. You couldn't ask for more. Fair play to the ref for giving allowances for some of the challenges, it was a proper match.

Agree about Ukraine missing a striker. They had so many chances, quite a few players will be having sleepless nights tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Wasn’t the England game one of those Nations League games ? With some of them moving from Oct/Nov due to the World Cup ?

Even after a hard season that team shouldn’t be getting beat by Hungary - seeing some of the stats guy do the breakdown and they were showing how poor players like Maguire was and a lack of a natural left back/sided player

Englands biggest issue right now is the a manger and his tactics


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 5, 2022)

,


Liverpoolphil said:



			Wasn’t the England game one of those Nations League games ? With some of them moving from Oct/Nov due to the World Cup ?

Even after a hard season that team shouldn’t be getting beat by Hungary - seeing some of the stats guy do the breakdown and they were showing how poor players like Maguire was and a lack of a natural left back/sided player

Englands biggest issue right now is the a manger and his tactics
		
Click to expand...

The Nations League is a pointless, contrived competition and about the last thing players need at the end of the season. They should be resting now, forgetting about football, not playing games like that. Even more so when you consider the intensity of the coming season with the world cup.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			,

The Nations League is a pointless, contrived competition and about the last thing players need at the end of the season. They should be resting now, forgetting about football, not playing games like that. Even more so when you consider the intensity of the coming season with the world cup.
		
Click to expand...

You are hard pushed to find someone including players etc that will disagree about the Nations League but if they weren’t playing it then it would be money spinning friendlies 

But imo they should be used to play players who they need to look at 

Out of the team that played Southgate should know how the likes of Maguire , Kane etc plays - so don’t let them near the team and play a mix of under 21s and fringe players


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## Hobbit (Jun 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You are hard pushed to find someone including players etc that will disagree about the Nations League but if they weren’t playing it then it would be money spinning friendlies

But imo they should be used to play players who they need to look at

Out of the team that played Southgate should know how the likes of Maguire , Kane etc plays - so don’t let them near the team and play a mix of under 21s and fringe players
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they needed to look at Maguire to see how far he’d ‘fallen?’


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## Tashyboy (Jun 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			,

The Nations League is a pointless, contrived competition and about the last thing players need at the end of the season. They should be resting now, forgetting about football, not playing games like that. Even more so when you consider the intensity of the coming season with the world cup.
		
Click to expand...

I have to say I was chuffed to bits to hear Foden had COVID and would miss the Nations games. What a load of rammel it is.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 5, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe they needed to look at Maguire to see how far he’d ‘fallen?’
		
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You would have hoped they watch some of Man Utd’s games - I believe the last time he was in a winning team was late Jan ?


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## Hobbit (Jun 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You would have hoped they watch some of Man Utd’s games - I believe the last time he was in a winning team was late Jan ?
		
Click to expand...

Different players and different motivation. Not seen a player lose confidence the way Maguire has since Gary (Careless Hands) Sprake at Leeds.


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## Orikoru (Jun 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			,

The Nations League is a pointless, contrived competition and about the last thing players need at the end of the season. They should be resting now, forgetting about football, not playing games like that. Even more so when you consider the intensity of the coming season with the world cup.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. I didn't even know the game was happening, but even if I did I probably wouldn't have bothered watching. Looking at the line-up it was not exactly 100% first choice I wouldn't say. And Hungary are no mugs these days, if you look back at the Euros and how they did quite well in the group of death. I'm not losing any sleep over the result, and the Nations League is a pointless waste of time anyway. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531183821994983426
Well said that man.


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## Beezerk (Jun 6, 2022)

Euros and World Cup, my life gets put on pause until the tournament ends.
Nations League, couldn’t give a hoot. We were out in Ambleside on Saturday evening and couldn’t be bothered with finding somewhere to watch the game.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 6, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Euros and World Cup, my life gets put on pause until the tournament ends.
Nations League, couldn’t give a hoot. We were out in Ambleside on Saturday evening and couldn’t be bothered with finding somewhere to watch the game.
		
Click to expand...

One of my mates would quit his job every 2 years, just before the Euro's and World Cup began, so that he would have an entire month of just watching football. After the tournament, he'd find another job.


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## Beezerk (Jun 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			One of my mates would quit his job every 2 years, just before the Euro's and World Cup began, so that he would have an entire month of just watching football. After the tournament, he'd find another job.
		
Click to expand...

Now that's a hardcore fan


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## Swango1980 (Jun 6, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Now that's a hardcore fan 

Click to expand...

Very much so. Especially as we are Northern Irish, and they were never in the tournaments. Except at Euro 2016, in which he went over to France, like myself, to watch the games.


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## Slime (Jun 7, 2022)

James Milner signs a one year extension at Liverpool.
I detest most things LFC .............................................. but Milner's a proper legend.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			James Milner signs a one year extension at Liverpool.
I detest most things LFC .............................................. but Milner's a proper legend.
		
Click to expand...

He is a fabulous pro but his tackles are getting later and later, without losing any intensity. By the end of next season he could be doing someone a serious injury unless he reigns himself in.


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## Slime (Jun 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is a fabulous pro *but his tackles are getting later and later, without losing any intensity.* By the end of next season he could be doing someone a serious injury unless he reigns himself in.
		
Click to expand...

A bit like Paul Scholes.
I still maintain that every club would benefit by having a Milner in their squad.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			A bit like Paul Scholes.
I still maintain that every club would benefit by having a Milner in their squad.
		
Click to expand...

Agree on both points. We had Gareth Barry for a few years towards the end of his career and he was very much in that mold. Always reliable, set the tone for the youngsters coming through. Great professionals.


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## fundy (Jun 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Agree on both points. We had Gareth Barry for a few years towards the end of his career and he was very much in that mold. Always reliable, set the tone for the youngsters coming through. Great professionals.
		
Click to expand...


and weve got Granit Xhaka........................


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is a fabulous pro but his tackles are getting later and later, without losing any intensity. By the end of next season he could be doing someone a serious injury unless he reigns himself in.
		
Click to expand...

Some of his tackles V City earlier in the season hi lighted this.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			and weve got Granit Xhaka........................
		
Click to expand...

And he is only 29. Just imagine how he will perform for Arsenal when he signs a 1 year contract extension when he is 36 years old. Definitely expect to see some meaty challenges.


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## Jensen (Jun 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is a fabulous pro but his tackles are getting later and later, without losing any intensity. By the end of next season he could be doing someone a serious injury unless he reigns himself in.
		
Click to expand...

He is a true model professional. Always gives his best and has been a fantastic servant to every club he has been at.
Never caused any trouble and is a shining example for any young player coming through


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## Rlburnside (Jun 7, 2022)

Looks a decent team for England maybe with the exception of Sterling not sure he’s good enough for England now especially as there’s more talented players to choose. 

Pointless competition though, I would have thought the players would need a rest after a long hard season especially with the World Cup later in the year.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 7, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Looks a decent team for England maybe with the exception of Sterling not sure he’s good enough for England now especially as there’s more talented players to choose.

Pointless competition though, I would have thought the players would need a rest after a long hard season especially with the World Cup later in the year.
		
Click to expand...

Bowen best player other night. Dropped. Rice is knackered and wasn't at his best.. keeps his place?


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## Swango1980 (Jun 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Bowen best player other night. Dropped. Rice is knackered and wasn't at his best.. keeps his place?
		
Click to expand...

And Southgate still doesn't fancy Grealish. Big fan of Sterling though.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			And Southgate still doesn't fancy Grealish. Big fan of Sterling though.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed sterling is class. But what's grealish got to do


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## Billysboots (Jun 7, 2022)

I see Maguire is bringing his United form to the international stage.


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## srixon 1 (Jun 7, 2022)

I’m sure that most of the players would rather be on the lash in Ibiza with their non international club teammates instead of playing in a pointless competition.


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## Beezerk (Jun 7, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I see Maguire is bringing his United form to the international stage.
		
Click to expand...

I’m not sure why Tomori hasn’t been given a chance, he’s supposed to be absolute class.


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## Billysboots (Jun 7, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I’m not sure why Tomori hasn’t been given a chance, he’s supposed to be absolute class.
		
Click to expand...

Too many managers show blind faith in under performing players.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 7, 2022)

8 minutes of injury time. I wasn't expecting that, even with a few injury stoppages and a brief VAR check


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## AmandaJR (Jun 7, 2022)

The scary thing about Maguire's defending is...Trippier looks worse! As for him and Saka standing over every corner...why?! Waste of a player - Trippier takes them from either side anyhow!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 7, 2022)

The C4 'team' in the studio 😱😱.


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## Fade and Die (Jun 7, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I see Maguire is bringing his United form to the international stage.
		
Click to expand...

Harry maguire wouldn’t look out of place at soccer aid.


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## Beezerk (Jun 7, 2022)

Kyle Walker is past it, constantly out of position and switching off, or has he always been like that


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## Beezerk (Jun 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			C4 the 'team' in the studio 😱😱.
		
Click to expand...

Fixed it for you


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## Swango1980 (Jun 7, 2022)

I wonder when Southgate will finally make a sub that wasn't forced on him due to injury.

Honestly, I think England's attacking abilities are completely wasted with Southgate as manager.


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## Billysboots (Jun 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Honestly, I think England's attacking abilities are completely wasted with Southgate as manager.
		
Click to expand...

He’ll never change. He’s not negative as such, but it certainly very conservative. But we’ve done this matter to death - this England squad under a more adventurous manager would have won either the Euros or World Cup, possibly both.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 7, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			He’ll never change. He’s not negative as such, but it certainly very conservative. But we’ve done this matter to death - this England squad under a more adventurous manager would have won either the Euros or World Cup, possibly both.
		
Click to expand...

I'm also wondering why Saka is still on the pitch. He is having an absolute nightmare. Surely worth giving someone like Bowen another run out for the closing stages?


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## Beezerk (Jun 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm also wondering why Saka is still on the pitch. He is having an absolute nightmare. Surely worth giving someone like Bowen another run out for the closing stages?
		
Click to expand...


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## Swango1980 (Jun 7, 2022)

Beezerk said:





Click to expand...

He must be on golf monthly. I thought about getting Bowen on after about 60 minutes, Southgate only 20 minutes slow


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## fundy (Jun 7, 2022)

how on earth is that a penalty lol


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## srixon 1 (Jun 7, 2022)

I thought Kane was offside


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## Beezerk (Jun 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			how on earth is that a penalty lol
		
Click to expand...

Because he had his calf clipped by the defender? Nailed on for me once I'd seen the correct angle.


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## Billysboots (Jun 7, 2022)

You would feel mightily aggrieved if that penalty went against you. Not sure about that at all.


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## fundy (Jun 7, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Because he had his calf clipped by the defender? Nailed on for me once I'd seen the correct angle.
		
Click to expand...


hes also 2 yards offside isnt he


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## Billysboots (Jun 7, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Because he had his calf clipped by the defender? Nailed on for me once I'd seen the correct angle.
		
Click to expand...

It looked like Kane tripped over his own feet to me!


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## Beezerk (Jun 7, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			It looked like Kane tripped over his own feet to me!
		
Click to expand...

No chance, he got caught clear as day


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## Billysboots (Jun 7, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			No chance, he got caught clear as day 

Click to expand...

My eyes aren’t the best. It’s years of straining as yet another golf ball disappears towards the cabbage.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 7, 2022)

Anyone see Bellingham injured, Germany not kick ot out, he finally gets up to try and play on, ball goes out and then Bellingham vomits on the pitch? Gross


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## pauljames87 (Jun 7, 2022)

Same old same old 

Doesn't start grealish in favour of mount who we all know what he can do 
. Grealish comes on.. we play better and score 

Rinse repeat


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## Slime (Jun 7, 2022)

Grealish, what a difference he made.
Hopefully he'll start the next game and, even more hopefully, instead of Sterling!


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## Billysboots (Jun 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			Grealish, what a difference he made.
Hopefully he'll start the next game and, even more hopefully, instead of Sterling!
		
Click to expand...

Not a chance. Not under this manager.

Certain things under Southgate are a given. Maguire, Sterling, Kane, Pickford - all racing certainties regardless of performances and club form.


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## 2blue (Jun 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			hes also 2 yards offside isnt he
		
Click to expand...

Yes...  was what I thought would override the pretty obvious foul on Kane....  however the ball through came off a German so no offside


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## pokerjoke (Jun 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Anyone see Bellingham injured, Germany not kick ot out, he finally gets up to try and play on, ball goes out and then Bellingham vomits on the pitch? Gross
		
Click to expand...

He had cramp so no need to kick ball out.No surprise he had cramp he was everywhere.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 7, 2022)

2blue said:



			Yes...  was what I thought would override the pretty obvious foul on Kane....  however the ball through came off a German so no offside
		
Click to expand...

I think the key thing is that the German defender deliberately played the ball. If it had deflected off him with no intention to play it then Kane would've been offside. Because the defender deliberately played the ball Kane is now onside.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 7, 2022)

Thought we played ok.
Made some good chances 
The biggest thing for me was we won the ball back a few times really high up in their half and made a complete balls of it.
Sterling should be nowhere near an England shirt . Never seen a player give the ball away as much as he does.
Rice looks under orders not to go more than 10yds into their half.
Pickford should be saving that for me.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 7, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			He had cramp so no need to kick ball out.No surprise he had cramp he was everywhere.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had no issues with them not kicking the ball out. I just mentioned it to paint the scene, and highlight the approximate time in match it happened. That is, the moment he vomited. Good job is was near the final whistle. Wouldn't wanna be an England defender and having to slide over it.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 8, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thought we played ok.
Made some good chances
The biggest thing for me was we won the ball back a few times really high up in their half and made a complete balls of it.
Sterling should be nowhere near an England shirt . Never seen a player give the ball away as much as he does.
Rice looks under orders not to go more than 10yds into their half.
Pickford should be saving that for me.
		
Click to expand...

Good. Rice bombing forward and not sitting being a cdm ruined soucek this season tbh .. we had to limit him to sitting back to fit in rice who's so much better at moping up.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Good. Rice bombing forward and not sitting being a cdm ruined soucek this season tbh .. we had to limit him to sitting back to fit in rice who's so much better at moping up.
		
Click to expand...

Ok I will take your view as you watch him every week.
But I think that’s why Kane drops so deep as there is acres of space in the middle.

I like Soucheck every time I have seen him he’s played really well. Very good in the air.
So in your opinion why has DM done that.?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 8, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Ok I will take your view as you watch him every week.
But I think that’s why Kane drops so deep as there is acres of space in the middle.

I like Soucheck every time I have seen him he’s played really well. Very good in the air.
So in your opinion why has DM done that.?
		
Click to expand...

To keep rice happy. He wants to be a box to box player .. Gerrard style. Yes he can play well like that but soucek isn't as good at just sitting back 

Rice is class at it. But feels limited (like he is for England)

But for England he can't complain or want to leave

We scored against every team this year . We need to tighten up at back . If rice had been in role from season before we would be letting in less .. with only a few bombing runs forward and a killer pass .. rather than letting him do what he wants 

Tbh he needs to score more to justify it 

Soucek got 10 first season 6 last ...rice got s few more but we hear "he has the best shot in training" not on the pitch he don't.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, I had no issues with them not kicking the ball out. I just mentioned it to paint the scene, and highlight the approximate time in match it happened. That is, the moment he vomited. Good job is was near the final whistle. Wouldn't wanna be an England defender and having to slide over it.
		
Click to expand...

I thought the ref was very good..
He just ignored the obvious going down with the slightes contact all game.
But it didn’t get through to the players as they just carried on doing it.
Bellingham should have gone to the touchline where he could get help,

Maybe we need a rugby law in ,if a player goes down let the phisio come on straight away.
If he’s taking the pee your down to ten men, if he’s hurt you get treatment faster.
Only stop the game if the phisio or medical team interfere in the game or until the ball goes out.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			To keep rice happy. He wants to be a box to box player .. Gerrard style. Yes he can play well like that but soucek isn't as good at just sitting back

Rice is class at it. But feels limited (like he is for England)

But for England he can't complain or want to leave

We scored against every team this year . We need to tighten up at back . If rice had been in role from season before we would be letting in less .. with only a few bombing runs forward and a killer pass .. rather than letting him do what he wants

Tbh he needs to score more to justify it

Soucek got 10 first season 6 last ...rice got s few more but we hear "he has the best shot in training" not on the pitch he don't.
		
Click to expand...

I am sure Klopp will let him play box to box if he wants..


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## pauljames87 (Jun 8, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am sure Klopp will let him play box to box if he wants..

Click to expand...

Would worryingly suit a klopp system

Bring your cheque Book


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 8, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Would worryingly suit a klopp system

Bring your cheque Book
		
Click to expand...

Imo he is what we need.
Hendo won’t last forever.
Be worth every Penny.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 8, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Imo he is what we need.
Hendo won’t last forever.
Be worth every Penny.
		
Click to expand...

Henderson prob has what 1-2 season at the top left in him before he becomes a filler 

Like you say perfect replacement


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 8, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534450004684849154


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 9, 2022)

A wonderful, yet painful fact that is currently doing the rounds. Had this World Cup been a regular one it would be starting this Friday 😰. Ah, a wasted summer.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534972766599925775


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534972766599925775

Click to expand...

At least it’ll stop the bed wetters whinging 🤷‍♂️
KDB for me tho.


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## Orikoru (Jun 10, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534967609229180933
This is a total farce as well. Son should obviously be in it for Mane. How is Thiago there? I'm struggling to remember him doing anything this season. Should be Rodri in his position by a country mile. Ronaldo is very debateable, but it's Ronaldo so I guess they have to crowbar him in.   Also I'm really not sure about the centre backs, for my money Matip was the best centre back last season.

Allison
Trent - *Matip *- VVD - Cancelo
KDB - *Rodri *- B.Silva
Salah - *Kane *- *Son*​
That would be it for me.

Edit: Arguable inclusion for Mount over Silva actually.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534967609229180933
This is a total farce as well. Son should obviously be in it for Mane. How is Thiago there? I'm struggling to remember him doing anything this season. Should be Rodri in his position by a country mile. Ronaldo is very debateable, but it's Ronaldo so I guess they have to crowbar him in.   Also I'm really not sure about the centre backs, for my money Matip was the best centre back last season.

Allison
Trent - *Matip *- VVD - Cancelo
KDB - *Rodri *- B.Silva
Salah - *Kane *- *Son*​
That would be it for me.

Edit: Arguable inclusion for Mount over Silva actually.
		
Click to expand...

Anyone would think Liverpool won the league 

Trent shouldn't be there, James was better
Matip should be there 
Rodri should be there 
Kane had an awful season before conte So no, son yes should be there

Thaigo??? He played 25 games for goodnes sake


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534967609229180933
This is a total farce as well. Son should obviously be in it for Mane. How is Thiago there? I'm struggling to remember him doing anything this season. Should be Rodri in his position by a country mile. Ronaldo is very debateable, but it's Ronaldo so I guess they have to crowbar him in.   Also I'm really not sure about the centre backs, for my money Matip was the best centre back last season.

Allison
Trent - *Matip *- VVD - Cancelo
KDB - *Rodri *- B.Silva
Salah - *Kane *- *Son*​
That would be it for me.

Edit: Arguable inclusion for Mount over Silva actually.
		
Click to expand...

It’s voted by the players and the votes are around March time I believe 

Rudiger was superb for Chelsea

Thiago was also excellent for his during those mid season periods 

Son excelled during the later stages prob after the votes were taken


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## Orikoru (Jun 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s voted by the players and the votes are around March time I believe

Rudiger was superb for Chelsea

Thiago was also excellent for his during those mid season periods

Son excelled during the later stages prob after the votes were taken
		
Click to expand...

I'll give you that Son's best form was the last couple of months. But I'm not having Thiago. He'd already missed the whole of October and the whole of January by then. Anyone who thinks he was better than Rodri for any part of this season wants their head looking at.

As a related point, how stupid is it to take votes at a point when there's still 20% of the season remaining? What's the rush? Just do the voting in May. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'll give you that Son's best form was the last couple of months. But I'm not having Thiago. He'd already missed the whole of October and the whole of January by then. Anyone who thinks he was better than Rodri for any part of this season wants their head looking at.

As a related point, how stupid is it to take votes at a point when there's still 20% of the season remaining? What's the rush? Just do the voting in May. 🤷🏻‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

That’s the way they have always voted - and it’s always worth remembering it’s the players doing the voting and they see the players up close and may well have a different view point - 

I didn’t watch Rodri but Thiago was key for us in the middle of the park


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## pauljames87 (Jun 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'll give you that Son's best form was the last couple of months. But I'm not having Thiago. He'd already missed the whole of October and the whole of January by then. Anyone who thinks he was better than Rodri for any part of this season wants their head looking at.

As a related point, how stupid is it to take votes at a point when there's still 20% of the season remaining? What's the rush? Just do the voting in May. 🤷🏻‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

If you can miss 2 whole months and get in the team of the season when it's voted mid march it's stupid 

Rodri should be in there for sure


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## Orikoru (Jun 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s the way they have always voted - and it’s always worth remembering it’s the players doing the voting and they see the players up close and may well have a different view point -

I didn’t watch Rodri but Thiago was key for us in the middle of the park
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure Thiago was decent enough but he started less than 50% of the games. It's farcical to suggest no one out there was better. Rice and Mount have better arguments for inclusion, let alone Rodri who should be absolutely nailed on. If you had your way the team of the season would just be 11 Liverpool players. Was six enough or do you think Robertson, Luis Diaz and Jota should have been in it as well?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sure Thiago was decent enough but he started less than 50% of the games. It's farcical to suggest no one out there was better. Rice and Mount have better arguments for inclusion, let alone Rodri who should be absolutely nailed on. If you had your way the team of the season would just be 11 Liverpool players. Was six enough or do you think Robertson, Luis Diaz and Jota should have been in it as well?
		
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Diaz arrived in January, so in those 2 months it's disgusting he didn't get in this team


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sure Thiago was decent enough but he started less than 50% of the games. It's farcical to suggest no one out there was better. Rice and Mount have better arguments for inclusion, let alone Rodri who should be absolutely nailed on. If you had your way the team of the season would just be 11 Liverpool players. Was six enough or do you think Robertson, Luis Diaz and Jota should have been in it as well?
		
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I’m not sure what the last bit is about apart from just being a touch childish 🤷‍♂️

It’s always the same with the team of the year awards - people will always have their own opinion and no one is right or wrong 

If I was picking i would have Fabinho instead of Thiago and Son instead of Ronaldo also Rice instead of Silva 

But it’s the players choice - and they have gone with the players they think make up the team of the season - I’m not sure if there is a specific amount of games a player must play but Thiagos fellow pros decided that he was worthy of inclusion


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## Swango1980 (Jun 10, 2022)

Reading Sky, the shortlist is compiled in JANUARY. Then voting is done in March.

So, barely half way through the season, the shortlist is compiled. Then I am guessing players were asked to vote at the stage Liverpool were catching City and there were people getting carried away with them winning the quadruple. So, it is easy to see how many votes could be influenced by what was happening at the time, and not correctly reflect the season when everything is over and proper reflection can be made.

Obviously why you get silly results like Thiago in the team and not Son. I'd also personally have had Reece James at right back all day long.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 10, 2022)

Liverpool had Six players for team of the season and manager of the year. Yet came second 🤔
Personally I would take that every year as a City fan. 😁👍
No Son and Rodri. 😳😳
Allison and Ederson both conceded the same about of goals yet Allison supposedly had a better defence in front of him with 2 players nominated.
Seriously is this a premier league, League cup, FA cup, European cup and charity shield award.
I am with Ori on this one and I have said it before. These awards and voting should be done at the end of the season.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Reading Sky, the shortlist is compiled in JANUARY. Then voting is done in March.

So, barely half way through the season, the shortlist is compiled. Then I am guessing players were asked to vote at the stage Liverpool were catching City and there were people getting carried away with them winning the quadruple. So, it is easy to see how many votes could be influenced by what was happening at the time, and not correctly reflect the season when everything is over and proper reflection can be made.

Obviously why you get silly results like Thiago in the team and not Son. I'd also personally have had Reece James at right back all day long.
		
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https://gfycat.com/honorableclosedflee

One of my fav Trent defensive moments


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## Swango1980 (Jun 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



https://gfycat.com/honorableclosedflee

One of my fav Trent defensive moments
		
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I just personally think he is ridiculously over-hyped. He has a very good delivery, no doubt about it. But I'm unsure if that is enough to get him in the team of the year. He has had 12 assists in the PL this season. Reece James has had 9, and played 6 fewer games (and played in a team who scored 18 fewer goals). James also scored 3 more goals. James has a tackle win rate of 76%, compared to 57% for TAA.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



https://gfycat.com/honorableclosedflee

One of my fav Trent defensive moments
		
Click to expand...






This was pretty good though 😁

But as before - it’s the players making the choices , the guys playing alongside each other - their fellow pros

Not sure it’s worth the reactions - TAA is one of the best players in the league and was again last season , so was James but both play in different ways and different set ups - we can bring up multiple stats but does it really - suspect neither team would swap.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I just personally think he is ridiculously over-hyped. He has a very good delivery, no doubt about it. But I'm unsure if that is enough to get him in the team of the year. He has had 12 assists in the PL this season. Reece James has had 9, and played 6 fewer games (and played in a team who scored 18 fewer goals). James also scored 3 more goals. James has a tackle win rate of 76%, compared to 57% for TAA.
		
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He suits Liverpool because that have 2 fantastic CBs (well 3 but only 2 at a time) .. they can afford Trent to not worry about his defending as much 

This causes issues for England and people can't accept he isn't the best choice at times 

James is excellent and would fit Liverpool aswell but Trent does his job for them just what they need 

Let's face it what he offers going forward they can forgive the odd goal against


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## fundy (Jun 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Liverpool had Six players for team of the season and manager of the year. Yet came second 🤔
Personally I would take that every year as a City fan. 😁👍
No Son and Rodri. 😳😳
*Allison and Ederson both conceded the same about of goals yet Allison supposedly had a better defence in front of him with 2 players nominated.*
Seriously is this a premier league, League cup, FA cup, European cup and charity shield award.
I am with Ori on this one and I have said it before. These awards and voting should be done at the end of the season.
		
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You do know that other keepers can be considered rather than just Pool and Citys?

Jose Sa can consider himself her unluckiest player in the prem to not be in this side on pretty much every metric bar not playing for a top 4 side lol


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## Tashyboy (Jun 10, 2022)

Fundy. 
I totally agree with you but that’s one example. Ederson and Allison shared the golden glove yet Liverpool had 2x players in front of him in defence.
So here’s another angle.
Who won the golden boot.
Salah and Son. Yet who was PFA player of the year. Salah. Eh. Son who played in a hit and miss team, his goals took Spuds to the champs league outshining Kane and yet he is not in. He is not in yet Mane is. 😳
These awards quite frankly look plastic when analysed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Fundy.
I totally agree with you but that’s one example. Ederson and Allison shared the golden glove yet Liverpool had 2x players in front of him in defence.
So here’s another angle.
Who won the golden boot.
Salah and Son. Yet who was PFA player of the year. Salah. Eh. Son who played in a hit and miss team, his goals took Spuds to the champs league outshining Kane and yet he is not in. He is not in yet Mane is. 😳
These awards quite frankly look plastic when analysed.
		
Click to expand...

Doesn’t Ederson have £200mil plus CB’s in front of him ? Wasn’t Dias supposed to be at the level of VVD ? 

Salah didn’t win the POTY just because he won the golden boot - he was also the top assists in the league as well 

And if you’re looking at Son being in which is a good shout the one player that would miss out would be Ronaldo not Mane who was superb for most of the season


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## fundy (Jun 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Doesn’t Ederson have £200mil plus CB’s in front of him ? Wasn’t Dias supposed to be at the level of VVD ?

Salah didn’t win the POTY just because he won the golden boot - he was also the top assists in the league as well

And if you’re looking at Son being in which is a good shout the one player that would miss out would be Ronaldo not Mane who was superb for most of the season
		
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No issue with Salah winning POTY, can make a case it shouldve been KDB (once City won the league) but can see why Salah got it

The only way Manes in side of the year is if you include African Nations performances lol.

Prem:
Mane 16 goals, 2 assists in 34 games
Ronaldo 18 goals 3 assists in 30 games
Son 23 goals 7 assists in 35 games

and Mane was playing in by far the best side of the three of them......


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## Swango1980 (Jun 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Doesn’t Ederson have £200mil plus CB’s in front of him ? Wasn’t Dias supposed to be at the level of VVD ? 

Salah didn’t win the POTY just because he won the golden boot - he was also the top assists in the league as well 

And if you’re looking at Son being in which is a good shout the one player that would miss out would be Ronaldo not Mane who was superb for most of the season
		
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Funny. Happy to fall behind the "it was the fellow pros who picked the players" when people wonder why certain Liverpool players are in the team. But then happy to say you think other players should be in the team, as long as they don't replace a Liverpool player.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 10, 2022)

I think I should ma


fundy said:



			No issue with Salah winning POTY, can make a case it shouldve been KDB but can see why Salah got it

The only way Manes in side of the year is if you include African Nations performances lol.

Prem:
Mane 16 goals, 2 assists in 34 games
Ronaldo 18 goals 3 assists in 30 games
Son 23 goals 7 assists in 35 games

and Mane was playing in by far the best side of the three of them......
		
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I think I should make clear that I have no issue with Salah being in the team of the year or in fact winning player of the year. But I would expect the top three players of Salah, Son and KDB to be in the team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			No issue with Salah winning POTY, can make a case it shouldve been KDB but can see why Salah got it

The only way Manes in side of the year is if you include African Nations performances lol.

Prem:
Mane 16 goals, 2 assists in 34 games
Ronaldo 18 goals 3 assists in 30 games
Son 23 goals 7 assists in 35 games

and Mane was playing in by far the best side of the three of them......
		
Click to expand...


Mane is one of those that look beyond the stats - he moved from the wide left to play as a more central striker and his link up play was excellent and was a big reason why we caught up with City - but I suspect some players when voting would have looked at his impact ( rightly or wrongly ) across all the formats. 

For the front three imo it’s prob closer to have a three of Salah , Bowen and Son


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## Swango1980 (Jun 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			No issue with Salah winning POTY, can make a case it shouldve been KDB (once City won the league) but can see why Salah got it

The only way Manes in side of the year is if you include African Nations performances lol.

Prem:
Mane 16 goals, 2 assists in 34 games
Ronaldo 18 goals 3 assists in 30 games
Son 23 goals 7 assists in 35 games

and Mane was playing in by far the best side of the three of them......
		
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Indeed. If Liverpoolphil is allowed to use the line "he was brilliant for us", then I'll use the same for Ronaldo. What he did in one of the most abysmal Utd sides I have seen since the PL began was outstanding. Son deserves to be in that team though, and I'd have easily put him in ahead of Mane.


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## fundy (Jun 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mane is one of those that look beyond the stats - he moved from the wide left to play as a more central striker and his link up play was excellent and was a big reason why we caught up with City - but I suspect some players when voting would have looked at his impact ( rightly or wrongly ) across all the formats.

For the front three imo it’s prob closer to have a three of Salah , Bowen and Son
		
Click to expand...

Ronaldos numbers for a guy in a new team, that was falling apart around him and where most were on the beach before the end of the season are pretty exceptional tbh. If it was anyone other than Ronaldo I expect youd have him in your side


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## Swango1980 (Jun 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ronaldos numbers for a guy in a new team, that was falling apart around him and where most were on the beach before the end of the season are pretty exceptional tbh. If it was anyone other than Ronaldo I expect youd have him in your side 

Click to expand...

Indeed. Ronaldo was the reason Utd finished above Bowen's West Ham. The rest of the West Ham team around Bowen were so much better as a team than the shambles around Ronaldo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ronaldos numbers for a guy in a new team, that was falling apart around him and where most were on the beach before the end of the season are pretty exceptional tbh. If it was anyone other than Ronaldo I expect youd have him in your side 

Click to expand...

Ronaldo will always put up good numbers - he is that good a player and there is no doubt that without him Utd would have been bottom half of the table but think the impact that Salah , Bowen and Son have had for their respective teams have been outstanding - if Mane missed out or Ronaldo missed out for the likes of Son etc then I don’t think it would be the wrong choice 

And if it was done at the end of the season then Son would have been in the team


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## Rlburnside (Jun 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Reading Sky, the shortlist is compiled in JANUARY. Then voting is done in March.

So, barely half way through the season, the shortlist is compiled. Then I am guessing players were asked to vote at the stage Liverpool were catching City and there were people getting carried away with them winning the quadruple. So, it is easy to see how many votes could be influenced by what was happening at the time, and not correctly reflect the season when everything is over and proper reflection can be made.

Obviously why you get silly results like Thiago in the team and not Son. I'd also personally have had Reece James at right back all day long.
		
Click to expand...

That makes the team selection pointless what numpty thought it was a good idea to have a shortlist with so much of the season left


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## Swango1980 (Jun 10, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			That makes the team selection pointless what numpty thought it was a good idea to have a shortlist with so much of the season left
		
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Maybe they anticipated the United players would finish their season with a few months to spare, and wanted to make sure they got their votes in before they mentally went on holiday


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## nickjdavis (Jun 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Reading Sky, the shortlist is compiled in JANUARY. Then voting is done in March.

.
		
Click to expand...

That will explain why Joelinton isn't in the team.


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## Slime (Jun 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Fundy.
I totally agree with you but that’s one example. *Ederson and Allison shared the golden glove yet Liverpool had 2x players in front of him in defence.*
So here’s another angle.
Who won the golden boot.
Salah and Son. Yet who was PFA player of the year. Salah. Eh. Son who played in a hit and miss team, his goals took Spuds to the champs league outshining Kane and yet he is not in. He is not in yet Mane is. 😳
These awards quite frankly look plastic when analysed.
		
Click to expand...

De Gea had Maguire in front of him .............................. De Gea would get my vote.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 11, 2022)

Richarlison on his way to Spurs?


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## Slime (Jun 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Richarlison on his way to Spurs?
		
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You've got no idea how much I want this to be true!


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Richarlison on his way to Spurs?
		
Click to expand...

He's got the ego of Diego Maradona and the footballing ability of Marcus Bent.


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## arnieboy (Jun 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Richarlison on his way to Spurs?
		
Click to expand...

Him and plenty of others if you follow the gossip!


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 11, 2022)

arnieboy said:



			Him and plenty of others if you follow the gossip!
		
Click to expand...

It’s that time of year 🤷‍♂️


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 11, 2022)

If Darwin Nunez is on his way to Liverpool does that mean one of Firminio or Jota will be leaving?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			If Darwin Nunez is on his way to Liverpool does that mean one of Firminio or Jota will be leaving?
		
Click to expand...

Mane is leaving


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			If Darwin Nunez is on his way to Liverpool does that mean one of Firminio or Jota will be leaving?
		
Click to expand...

Looks like Klopp will be leaving aswell 😬


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mane is leaving
		
Click to expand...

Admittedly I don't know much about him but isn't Nunez more of a central striker rather than a wide player? Hence my question about Firminio and Jota. I assumed Mane would be allowed to leave as they now had Diaz as his replacement.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looks like Klopp will be leaving aswell 😬
View attachment 43026

Click to expand...

I'm not interested in your petty point scoring. I come on this thread to have an adult discussion about football, not to try to troll or wind up other football fans like you so obviously do. Grow up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Admittedly I don't know much about him but isn't Nunez more of a central striker rather than a wide player? Hence my question about Firminio and Jota. I assumed Mane would be allowed to leave as they now had Diaz as his replacement.
		
Click to expand...

Mane ended up moving into the middle for the second half of the season - Nunez seems to be another that isn’t just a central striker and can also play wide but only really seen him in the game against us

Also losing Origi so it will leave us with

Salah
Diaz
Bobby 
Jota 
Nunez ?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm not interested in your petty point scoring. I come on this thread to have an adult discussion about football, not to try to troll or wind up other football fans like you so obviously do. Grow up.
		
Click to expand...

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm not interested in your petty point scoring. I come on this thread to have an adult discussion about football, not to try to troll or wind up other football fans like you so obviously do. Grow up.
		
Click to expand...

Just a bit of fun buddy,no different from the Pep one saying how he likes to give youth a chance.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Richarlison on his way to Spurs?
		
Click to expand...

I'd happily take that if the fee is right. A good chunk of money helps corrects our books and allows Frank some leeway in the market. He is a surly piece of work and tends to play on his terms. He will be good in a good team but I don't think he is what we need right now and his fee is worth more to us then he is.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 11, 2022)

Grealish gets a start finally


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## pauljames87 (Jun 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Grealish gets a start finally
		
Click to expand...

Good line up

Only 2 I'd change


Maigure out

Mount out, grealish in hole with sterling left Bowen right but I'm biased


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## Swango1980 (Jun 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Good line up

Only 2 I'd change


Maigure out

Mount out, grealish in hole with sterling left Bowen right but I'm biased
		
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I heard Smalling has had a good year at Roma. Anyone watch Italian football and seen him play?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I heard Smalling has had a good year at Roma. Anyone watch Italian football and seen him play?
		
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Clearly nobody seen maigure play this year? Lol


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## pokerjoke (Jun 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Richarlison on his way to Spurs?
		
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Didn’t he say that he wanted to become an Everton legend?
Didn’t last long


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## pokerjoke (Jun 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Clearly nobody seen maigure play this year? Lol
		
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Southgate clearly hasn’t


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## Slime (Jun 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Clearly nobody seen maigure play this year? Lol
		
Click to expand...




pokerjoke said:



			Southgate clearly hasn’t
		
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The hatred aimed at Maguire is bordering on the obsessional.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 11, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Didn’t he say that he wanted to become an Everton legend?
Didn’t last long
		
Click to expand...

Does anyone ever actually believe any player when they come out with that stuff? It's like the quote of 'I want to finish my career with ........'


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## Paperboy (Jun 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			The hatred aimed at Maguire is bordering on the obsessional.
		
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I thought you'd have seen alot of how bad he's been at United this year. Seems to play better for England tbh.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			The hatred aimed at Maguire is bordering on the obsessional.
		
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Hatred ? I doubt anyone “hates” Maguire - just because some think he has been shocking for a while now I doubt anyone “hates”


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## pauljames87 (Jun 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			The hatred aimed at Maguire is bordering on the obsessional.
		
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Nobody Hates him 

We don't rate him


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## Rlburnside (Jun 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Richarlison on his way to Spurs?
		
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Richarlison will not be going to Spurs


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## Slime (Jun 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



*Nobody Hates him*

*We don't rate him*

Click to expand...

Hatred was maybe the wrong word, but it's largely a figure of speech and I think you all knew exactly what I meant.
It's just not like you or LP to be pedantic, not like you two at all. 

Southgate does and I guess that's what counts.
Can't really remember him particularly letting England down.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			The hatred aimed at Maguire is bordering on the obsessional.
		
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Never mentioned hatred
If Southgate had watched Maguire surely going on club form he wouldn’t be starting for England.
That’s not hatred,that’s fact


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## Slime (Jun 11, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Never mentioned hatred
If Southgate had watched Maguire surely going on club form he wouldn’t be starting for England.
That’s not hatred,that’s fact
		
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See the post before yours, it may have saved you some time!


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 11, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Never mentioned hatred
If Southgate had watched Maguire surely going on club form he wouldn’t be starting for England.
That’s not hatred,that’s fact
		
Click to expand...

Isn't this the same argument that's been made plenty of times for picking Pickford? He hasn't let England down (so far) so Southgate keeps picking him. The same as Pickford might have made some blunders in an Everton shirt but is still first choice for England as he hasn't done it so far in an England shirt.


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## Billysboots (Jun 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Isn't this the same argument that's been made plenty of times for picking Pickford? He hasn't let England down (so far) so Southgate keeps picking him. The same as Pickford might have made some blunders in an Everton shirt but is still first choice for England as he hasn't done it so far in an England shirt.
		
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You beat me to saying exactly that.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 11, 2022)

I think we are seeing tonight why Southgate sticks with the tried and tested.
Last 2 games we just look so disjointed 
Where’s Grealish gone he’s totally disappeared


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## pokerjoke (Jun 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Isn't this the same argument that's been made plenty of times for picking Pickford? He hasn't let England down (so far) so Southgate keeps picking him. The same as Pickford might have made some blunders in an Everton shirt but is still first choice for England as he hasn't done it so far in an England shirt.
		
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I don’t think so imo Pickford has been superb for Everton especially the last few games.
Also he’s been absolutely superb for England and fully deserves his place.


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## Billysboots (Jun 11, 2022)

Quality from Sterling, that. Not.


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## Billysboots (Jun 11, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I don’t think so imo Pickford has been superb for Everton especially the last few games.
Also he’s been absolutely superb for England and fully deserves his place.
		
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I think the argument was perhaps more relevant around the time of the Euros, when Pickford had been less than impressive at club level. He’s certainly been more assured in recent times.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 11, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I don’t think so imo Pickford has been superb for Everton especially the last few games.
Also he’s been absolutely superb for England and fully deserves his place.
		
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Recently yes, he's been in great form for Everton, but he went through a stage where he was making basic mistakes and questions were being asked about his England place. The argument in favour of keeping him was that he'd never let England down and so should keep his place. Much like McGuire is making mistakes for Utd but hasn't been guilty of any horrendous errors for England so far.


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## Billysboots (Jun 11, 2022)

One of the (many) things which irks me about Maguire is his tendency to raise his arm in appeal for an offside and almost take himself out of the game by doing so, as he drops off the pace waiting for a decision. I wish he wouldn’t do it.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 11, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Quality from Sterling, that. Not.
		
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The problem with Southgate is he’s to loyal to players Sterling has been rubbish for along while should never be in the team, if Southgate had been more positive we would have won a major trophy imo.


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## Slime (Jun 11, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			The problem with Southgate is he’s to loyal to players Sterling has been rubbish for along while should never be in the team, if Southgate had been more positive we would have won a major trophy imo.
		
Click to expand...

Sterling has been simply awful ............................ and for quite a while, too!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			Sterling has been simply awful ............................ and for quite a while, too!
		
Click to expand...

But as you said when people said the same thing about Maguire 

“Southgate does and I guess that's what counts.”


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## Rlburnside (Jun 11, 2022)

First time I’ve seen Tomori and I must say he looks a quality player, hope I see more of him


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## Swango1980 (Jun 11, 2022)

0-0. If anyone stays tuned to watch the full time analysis with Michael Owen, let us know if he says anything interesting


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 11, 2022)

He didn’t  👍


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			0-0. If anyone stays tuned to watch the full time analysis with Michael Owen, let us know if he says anything interesting
		
Click to expand...

He didn’t.
Jules Breach tho 👌


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## Slime (Jun 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But as you said when people said the same thing about Maguire

“Southgate does and I guess that's what counts.”
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely, I was just offering my opinion .............................. if that's okay.


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## Dando (Jun 12, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			He didn’t.
Jules Breach tho 👌
		
Click to expand...

she’s pleasant to look at


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## Swango1980 (Jun 12, 2022)

Dando said:



			she’s pleasant to look at
		
Click to expand...

Careful, some bosses would sack you if they found out you made that comment


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## Dando (Jun 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Careful, some bosses would sack you if they found out you made that comment 

Click to expand...

Am I about to be canceled?


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## arnieboy (Jun 12, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I think we are seeing tonight why Southgate sticks with the tried and tested.
Last 2 games we just look so disjointed
Where’s Grealish gone he’s totally disappeared
		
Click to expand...

Interesting that so many clamoured for his inclusion from the start. He should have been brought on when the game opened up.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 12, 2022)

England have as much of an attacking option as Man City and Liverpool have, if not more. Yet they play a more defensive formation. The difference being the club teams have pep and Klopp England have Southgate. There in lies the problem for me in that we are not getting the most out of this generation. Couple
With the fact he plays out of form Players and what is our actual style of play. He leaves himself open to criticism.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2022)

The difference between England and the likes of City, Liverpool and Chelsea is the quality of the CB’s

Look at both teams and the quality CBs are 

VVD , Konate , Rudiger , Matip , Laporte , Dias , Silva

The English ones are Stones , Gomez and Tomori 

And all three of them aren’t play regularly 

if they were then Stones and Gomez would be first choice , both quality on the ball and Gomez has the level of pace needed to cover full backs who go on 

Because England don’t have the quality at CB that means Southgate goes ultra defensive and plays 3 CBs plus two holding mids.

What it means is that England won’t get the best out of the better players - Foden , TAA etc


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The difference between England and the likes of City, Liverpool and Chelsea is the quality of the CB’s

Look at both teams and the quality CBs are

VVD , Konate , Rudiger , Matip , Laporte , Dias , Silva

The English ones are Stones , Gomez and Tomori

And all three of them aren’t play regularly

if they were then Stones and Gomez would be first choice , both quality on the ball and Gomez has the level of pace needed to cover full backs who go on

Because England don’t have the quality at CB that means Southgate goes ultra defensive and plays 3 CBs plus two holding mids.

What it means is that England won’t get the best out of the better players - Foden , TAA etc
		
Click to expand...

agree.
But we won’t get anything out of Foden if he’s warming the bench and Sterling is playing.
He’s got a choice but makes the wrong ones.
Maguire looked like he was running in treacle arm up for offside , but he must realise VAR will spot that and sprint back ( if he can sprint)


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## fundy (Jun 12, 2022)

Sounds like Pochettino definitely leaving PSG, wonder where he will end up


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## pokerjoke (Jun 12, 2022)

arnieboy said:



			Interesting that so many clamoured for his inclusion from the start. He should have been brought on when the game opened up.
		
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He came on for 15 minutes the other night and did ok
All of a sudden he starts and he’s pants again.
Just like his form for City since his move very up and down.
He’s said it himself he’s lost confidence and is worried about losing the ball,you just can’t play football to your max with that worry.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 12, 2022)

I’d like to see England go into the world cup & just go for it.
We’re not good enough to try & win 1-0 against top teams. 
Got some cracking attack minded players tho.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 12, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I’d like to see England go into the world cup & just go for it.
We’re not good enough to try & win 1-0 against top teams.
Got some cracking attack minded players tho.
		
Click to expand...

Seeing an interview he did the other day I believe he has grasped the fans frustration at the above.
I also believe he knows if he did that our defensive frailties will become even more evident.
A fine balance.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 12, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Seeing an interview he did the other day I believe he has grasped the fans frustration at the above.
I also believe he knows if he did that our defensive frailties will become even more evident.
A fine balance.
		
Click to expand...

Tbh mate id rather lose 3-2 in big games than 1-0 or on penalties.
Play to out strengths 🤷‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 12, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Tbh mate id rather lose 3-2 in big games than 1-0 or on penalties.
Play to out strengths 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Agree 
But GS is not the man to have a go.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 12, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Tbh mate id rather lose 3-2 in big games than 1-0 or on penalties.
Play to out strengths 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Couldn’t agree more,especially semi or finals


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## Swango1980 (Jun 12, 2022)

I reckon Southgate will be absolutely buzzing this summer. Undefeated against big teams like Italy and Germany. He'll think that is exceptional.

Meanwhile, the rest of us watched, potentially, the three dullest consecutive international matches by England in a long time. 

Assuming England are one of the big international teams, which they should be, they are the best boring team of them all. They'll go into any big win just desperately hoping to not lose. Whereas I am pretty sure nations like France, Spain, Germany, etc always go into big games positively. Almost with expectation. They may not always have the quality, or the luck, but they'll always go in to a match really assertively. It is why I think a big nation with a set of more average players than normal will still always be favourites against an England side with really strong players.

Come on England. Just one day stop being so scared, stand with your heads high and give it a go. I'm sure fans will forgive losses so long as England gave them something to get excited about.


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## Slime (Jun 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I reckon Southgate will be absolutely buzzing this summer. Undefeated against big teams like Italy and Germany. He'll think that is exceptional.

Meanwhile, the rest of us watched, potentially, the three dullest consecutive international matches by England in a long time.

Assuming England are one of the big international teams, which they should be, *they are the best boring team of them all.* They'll go into any big win just desperately hoping to not lose. Whereas I am pretty sure nations like France, Spain, Germany, etc always go into big games positively. Almost with expectation. They may not always have the quality, or the luck, but they'll always go in to a match really assertively. It is why I think a big nation with a set of more average players than normal will still always be favourites against an England side with really strong players.

Come on England. Just one day stop being so scared, stand with your heads high and give it a go. I'm sure fans will forgive losses so long as England gave them something to get excited about.
		
Click to expand...

Were Italy or Germany any less boring?


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I reckon Southgate will be absolutely buzzing this summer. Undefeated against big teams like Italy and Germany. He'll think that is exceptional.

Meanwhile, the rest of us watched, potentially, the three dullest consecutive international matches by England in a long time.

Assuming England are one of the big international teams, which they should be, they are the best boring team of them all. They'll go into any big win just desperately hoping to not lose. Whereas I am pretty sure nations like France, Spain, Germany, etc always go into big games positively. Almost with expectation. They may not always have the quality, or the luck, but they'll always go in to a match really assertively. It is why I think a big nation with a set of more average players than normal will still always be favourites against an England side with really strong players.

Come on England. Just one day stop being so scared, stand with your heads high and give it a go. I'm sure fans will forgive losses so long as England gave them something to get excited about.
		
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Yes this exactly.
If we had a more attacking manager and only won one of those games we would still have more points now.
But I think we all know what to expect !
Another good squad with poor tactical nouse in charge.


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## fundy (Jun 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			Were Italy or Germany any less boring?
		
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Looks like a competiton (or two) too far for most players and sides what Ive seen of it, not sure Id be overly judging any sides on performances. Be nice to see managers trying some new players, pairing or formations which in fairness southgate has done


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## Swango1980 (Jun 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			Were Italy or Germany any less boring?
		
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We expect it from England though. They seem to play so conservative to simply stop the opposition from playing good offensive football.

It is a tactic that can save you getting outdone offensively, and it will make the opposition less potent. But, it is still dull and unadventurous. The opposition probably feel they just need to score 1 or 2 goals to win, and not worry too much about England putting them under pressure. 

I could forgive England a little on this occasion, as the season it pretty much done for the players. But, rarely to England give fans anything to really get excited by. They just hope to slug their way through a tournament. Inevitably, it worsens their chances compared to other  big nations. The other nations often just play with more of a swagger or arrogance.

Out of interest, how good are the players in the German and Italian sides at the moment? I'm unsure they have their strongest ever line-ups, and maybe weaker than average?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535955076312866817
Looks like it’s done 

Will see Mane , Ox , Phillips and Taki leaving to help pay for it


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## Tashyboy (Jun 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			Were Italy or Germany any less boring?
		
Click to expand...

Italy are in a massive transitional stage having not qualified for the World Cup. Under Mancini they are rebuilding from scratch. I think these games would suit Italy to a tee where they can make a start. Where as under GS. I honestly don’t think he knows what his best 11 is, what his style of play is. 
I would of hoped by now he would have a solid foundation of a starting 7, 8 or 9 and players slotting in around that, but it just seems every game new players are tried and new formations. There seems to be no consistency aside from consistent rammel.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 12, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Italy are in a massive transitional stage having not qualified for the World Cup. Under Mancini they are rebuilding from scratch. I think these games would suit Italy to a tee where they can make a start. Where as under GS. I honestly don’t think he knows what his best 11 is, what his style of play is. 
I would of hoped by now he would have a solid foundation of a starting 7, 8 or 9 and players slotting in around that, but it just seems every game new players are tried and new formations. There seems to be no consistency aside from consistent rammel.
		
Click to expand...

He is the international equivalent of Solskjaer


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He is the international equivalent of Solskjaer
		
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That’s strange comparison 

The same Mancini who won the Euros with Italy 🤷‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Jun 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s strange comparison 

The same Mancini who won the Euros with Italy 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I wasn't clear who I meant. I was comparing to Southgate, not Mancini


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## Bdill93 (Jun 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535955076312866817
Looks like it’s done

Will see Mane , Ox , Phillips and Taki leaving to help pay for it
		
Click to expand...

Good business.

I know Liverpool fans will hate to see Mane go but actually from the outsider perspective, I think hes the one I'd move on this year while he still holds some value and hes not in the first two names on the team sheet anymore. 

Hope he comes in firing, do not want to see City just running away with the league next year with no contest.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2022)

Scary for every other side, the gap was massive this season, City have already signed Alvarez and Haaland, Liverpool now signed Nunez


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## Bdill93 (Jun 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Scary for every other side, the gap was massive this season, City have already signed Alvarez and Haaland, Liverpool now signed Nunez
		
Click to expand...

Its pretty insane and frankly, just not fair


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Its pretty insane and frankly, just not fair 

Click to expand...

Yup not good for the rest is it 

It does make me chuckle when some of our disillusioned fan base think were only a couple of signings away from challenging for the title lol


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## Bdill93 (Jun 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Yup not good for the rest is it 

It does make me chuckle when some of our disillusioned fan base think were only a couple of signings away from challenging for the title lol
		
Click to expand...

Nope! It makes me wonder who someone like United are going to have to go in for now? Huge gaps to plug!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Yup not good for the rest is it 

It does make me chuckle when some of our disillusioned fan base think were only a couple of signings away from challenging for the title lol
		
Click to expand...

I think Chelsea probably are only 2 signings away from challenging but the rest...............

It is not unusual though. Football goes in cycles and these are the current two in the cycle. Always hard to know when it will end but thankfully, in England anyway, it usually does at some point.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think Chelsea probably are only 2 signings away from challenging but the rest...............

It is not unusual though. Football goes in cycles and these are the current two in the cycle. Always hard to know when it will end but thankfully, in England anyway, it usually does at some point.
		
Click to expand...

Not so sure Chelsea are even that close having lost Rudiger and may lose one or two more at the back. Gonna need a couple of centre halves and a striker as a bare minimum youd think, probably some full back cover too, and ideally a top class midfielder


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Not so sure Chelsea are even that close having lost Rudiger and may lose one or two more at the back. Gonna need a couple of centre halves and a striker as a bare minimum youd think, probably some full back cover too, and ideally a top class midfielder
		
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I'd go CH and a striker. The rest they have plenty of cover for, imo. Blimey, they could always recall the odd loanee from the 21 currently out at other clubs.


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## fundy (Jun 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd go CH and a striker. The rest they have plenty of cover for, imo. Blimey, they could always recall the odd loanee from the 21 currently out at other clubs.
		
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thats not what loanees are for 

expect that Gallagaher at least gets reintegrated, wonder whether they consider Broja worth a go too


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## Swango1980 (Jun 13, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Nope! It makes me wonder who someone like United are going to have to go in for now? Huge gaps to plug!
		
Click to expand...

The danger would be if Utd just splash money on players to try and plug the gap. If they were to go all out for a player, it would really have to be a player who is not only quality, but is less risky in terms of what sort of character and professionalism to the team. We have just been burned too many times by splashing money on big time charlies. Just as an example, Mbappe is clearly an immense player, but if Utd had signed him I'd be anxious as to the sort of guy he'd be like in the dressing room, and what his motivations were. Whereas, if they brought in someone like Kane or Son then I feel that, probability wise, they'd be better personalities to have. Clearly, only based on what I see, and I only used these players as an example rather than the sort of players I could see Utd going for (with Mbappe obviously committing himself to PSG after they kindly offered him a "small" pay rise).

I'd imagine few Utd fans don't expect us to fully close the gap to City or Liverpool. We just want to see a positive improvement to where we have found ourselves. We are like a 10 handicapper in the Club Championships who shoots two awful rounds of 90+, whilst a couple of scratch golfers compete for lowest gross. We are not silly enough to think we'll compete for lowest gross next year. Instead, we'd be happy to sort out our game, get our handicap to about 7 or 8 through hard work, and then hope to maybe close the gap on the leaders for the event next year.

As for Liverpool and City, it'll be interesting. They have already been competing at an extremely high standard. And, big name players will, on paper, make them better. Especially for City, as Haaland fills a position City clearly were lacking. However, even when big players are brought in, given the level they were before, any potential gains become more marginal (if the new players play as expected). It is like a decade ago when Barcelona were a truly brilliant team. They could go and buy another immense player, but if they were already playing close to the top level a team could play, how much better could the team perform? For Liverpool, I think Liverpool fans would agree that they are delighted with all their attacking players and what they have contributed. So, will another brilliant forward automatically make them even better? And, if that player replaces Mane, will they be better for Liverpool than Mane was, given how much Mane is praised by Liverpool fans (and more widely).


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			thats not what loanees are for 

expect that Gallagaher at least gets reintegrated, wonder whether they consider Broja worth a go too
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha. I know, not at Chelsea anyway.

I think holding on to both of those make sense. They can always send them out again at Christmas if they are sat warming the bench.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The danger would be if Utd just splash money on players to try and plug the gap. If they were to go all out for a player, it would really have to be a player who is not only quality, but is less risky in terms of what sort of character and professionalism to the team. We have just been burned too many times by splashing money on big time charlies. Just as an example, Mbappe is clearly an immense player, but if Utd had signed him I'd be anxious as to the sort of guy he'd be like in the dressing room, and what his motivations were. Whereas, if they brought in someone like Kane or Son then I feel that, probability wise, they'd be better personalities to have. Clearly, only based on what I see, and I only used these players as an example rather than the sort of players I could see Utd going for (with Mbappe obviously committing himself to PSG after they kindly offered him a "small" pay rise).

I'd imagine few Utd fans expect us to close the gap to City or Liverpool. We just want to see a positive improvement to where we have found ourselves. We are like a 10 handicapper in the Club Championships who shoots too awful rounds of 90+, whilst a couple of scratch golfers compete for lowest gross. We are not silly enough to think we'll compete for lowest gross next year. Instead, we'd be happy to sort out our game, get our handicap to about 7 or 8 through hard work, and then hope to maybe close the gap on the leaders for the event next year.

As for Liverpool and City, it'll be interesting. They have already been competing at an extremely high standard. And, big name players will, on paper, make them better. Especially for City, as Haaland fills a position City clearly were lacking. However, even when big players are brought in, given the level they were before, any potential gains become more marginal (if the new players play as expected). It is like a decade ago when Barcelona were a truly brilliant team. They could go and buy another immense player, but if they were already playing close to the top level a team could play, how much better could the team perform? For Liverpool, I think Liverpool fans would agree that they are delighted with all their attacking players and what they have contributed. So, will another brilliant forward automatically make them even better? And, if that player replaces Mane, will they be better for Liverpool than Mane was, given how much Mane is praised by Liverpool fans (and more widely).
		
Click to expand...

I agree, its certainly been you plan of the past 10 years and it clearly isnt successful in the long term. 

You do need to regain top 4 though! There have to be some additions to even do that!


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## Swango1980 (Jun 13, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I agree, its certainly been you plan of the past 10 years and it clearly isnt successful in the long term.

You do need to regain top 4 though! There have to be some additions to even do that!
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, I'm sure the mindset will not be to finish 5th. And, we'll almost certainly need new players. I know we had far too many hangers on last year, but still definitely got rid of Cavani, Lingard, Mata, Matic and Pogba, so that is 5 of the higher profile players gone. There is then the likes of Bailly, Jones, Greenwood, Dalot and Wan-Bissaka whose future at the club remains in the balance. And, even for those that stay, many have proven to have been pretty awful this year, so it would be difficult for ten Hag to assume he can achieve much better things with the players than remain. Hopefully he rejuvenates them, but will also take new additions to add that energy, feeling of excitement and provide healthy competition for places.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 13, 2022)

So it looks like Mason Greenwood as got off with it.
Can see him getting some right stick next season from opposition fans.


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## 4LEX (Jun 13, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Its pretty insane and frankly, just not fair 

Click to expand...

Nunez only has one decent season behind him, very much unproven. Mane will be a huge loss in terms of goals and assists, he was the one who stepped up towards the end of the season when Salah went off the boil.

Thing is Liverpool have shown they get the scouting and signings right, so you'd not be surprised if he hit the ground running and got 25 goals. If he doesn't then City will walk it!


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## 4LEX (Jun 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The danger would be if Utd just splash money on players to try and plug the gap. If they were to go all out for a player, it would really have to be a player who is not only quality, but is less risky in terms of what sort of character and professionalism to the team. We have just been burned too many times by splashing money on big time charlies. Just as an example, Mbappe is clearly an immense player, but if Utd had signed him I'd be anxious as to the sort of guy he'd be like in the dressing room, and what his motivations were. Whereas, if they brought in someone like Kane or Son then I feel that, probability wise, they'd be better personalities to have. Clearly, only based on what I see, and I only used these players as an example rather than the sort of players I could see Utd going for (with Mbappe obviously committing himself to PSG after they kindly offered him a "small" pay rise).

I'd imagine few Utd fans don't expect us to fully close the gap to City or Liverpool. We just want to see a positive improvement to where we have found ourselves. We are like a 10 handicapper in the Club Championships who shoots two awful rounds of 90+, whilst a couple of scratch golfers compete for lowest gross. We are not silly enough to think we'll compete for lowest gross next year. Instead, we'd be happy to sort out our game, get our handicap to about 7 or 8 through hard work, and then hope to maybe close the gap on the leaders for the event next year.

As for Liverpool and City, it'll be interesting. They have already been competing at an extremely high standard. And, big name players will, on paper, make them better. Especially for City, as Haaland fills a position City clearly were lacking. However, even when big players are brought in, given the level they were before, any potential gains become more marginal (if the new players play as expected). It is like a decade ago when Barcelona were a truly brilliant team. They could go and buy another immense player, but if they were already playing close to the top level a team could play, how much better could the team perform? For Liverpool, I think Liverpool fans would agree that they are delighted with all their attacking players and what they have contributed. So, will another brilliant forward automatically make them even better? And, if that player replaces Mane, will they be better for Liverpool than Mane was, given how much Mane is praised by Liverpool fans (and more widely).
		
Click to expand...

The signs aren't good missing out on Nunez and chasing De Jong who isn't interested in leaving Barcelona. It looks like theres very little planning going on at Utd bar signing Ajax or ex Ajax players.

De Jong would be a good signing though and give Utd the anchor in midfield they've lacked since Carrick. The sort of player who makes everyone else play better.


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			The signs aren't good missing out on Nunez and chasing De Jong who isn't interested in leaving Barcelona. *It looks like theres very little planning going on at Utd *bar signing Ajax or ex Ajax players.

De Jong would be a good signing though and give Utd the anchor in midfield they've lacked since Carrick. The sort of player who makes everyone else play better.
		
Click to expand...

It's been exactly that for a decade and more!


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## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Nunez only has one decent season behind him, very much unproven. Mane will be a huge loss in terms of goals and assists, he was the one who stepped up towards the end of the season when Salah went off the boil.

Thing is Liverpool have shown they get the scouting and signings right, so you'd not be surprised if he hit the ground running and got 25 goals. If he doesn't then City will walk it!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah... I'm not quaking in my boots at them signing Nunez just yet. Currently on a par with the likes of Mateja Kezman until he proves himself.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah... I'm not quaking in my boots at them signing Nunez just yet. Currently on a par with the likes of Mateja Kezman until he proves himself.
		
Click to expand...

I just back any player Liverpool sign under Klopp to do well.

Hes certainly more of a goal threat than Firminho!


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## Beezerk (Jun 14, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I just back any player Liverpool sign under Klopp to do well.

Hes certainly more of a goal threat than Firminho!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but Firminho is perfect for the “Klopp way” 😬😂


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## Bdill93 (Jun 14, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Yeah but Firminho is perfect for the “Klopp way” 😬😂
		
Click to expand...

Perfect at warming the bench now I think!


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## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I just back any player Liverpool sign under Klopp to do well.

Hes certainly more of a goal threat than Firminho!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd agree with both of those points. 

The rumours of us signing Richarlison aren't going away either. It's making me sad. I think he's a bang average player and a monumental prick into the bargain. If we did sign him he'd have to go some to win me over. (I'm sure he's bothered what I think.)


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## Bdill93 (Jun 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I'd agree with both of those points.

The rumours of us signing Richarlison aren't going away either. It's making me sad. I think he's a bang average player and a monumental prick into the bargain. If we did sign him he'd have to go some to win me over. (I'm sure he's bothered what I think.)
		
Click to expand...

Youve got Bissouma it seems!!


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## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Youve got Bissouma it seems!!
		
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Now that would be a good signing. The thing is with Paratici though who handles our transfers, I've heard that he'll literally negotiate with like ten players at once for a position, and then just give up on the ones that aren't working out and narrow it down to one guy. Hence we'll be linked with absolutely everyone with only a few of them coming off.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Now that would be a good signing. The thing is with Paratici though who handles our transfers, I've heard that he'll literally negotiate with like ten players at once for a position, and then just give up on the ones that aren't working out and narrow it down to one guy. Hence we'll be linked with absolutely everyone with only a few of them coming off.
		
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Smoke screens are handy in modern football.

Biggest prices for players seem to happen when a club knows only their player is the target!


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## fundy (Jun 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Now that would be a good signing. The thing is with Paratici though who handles our transfers, I've heard that he'll literally negotiate with like ten players at once for a position, and then just give up on the ones that aren't working out and narrow it down to one guy. Hence we'll be linked with absolutely everyone with only a few of them coming off.
		
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Great signing in a purely football sense at the prices being discussed. Have his off field issues been resolved now?


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## Bdill93 (Jun 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			Great signing in a purely football sense at the prices being discussed. *Have his off field issues been resolved now?*

Click to expand...

This was my thought... If they had surely it would be 50m+?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah... I'm not quaking in my boots at them signing Nunez just yet. Currently on a par with the likes of Mateja Kezman until he proves himself.
		
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It’s always strange when new players arrive into the Prem from other leagues

Nunez for example is only 22 , you can see through his career how he is progressing 

As an example he was on par with Diaz in terms of output with the Portuguese league 

I don’t expect other teams fans to be “quaking” in their boots but I don’t think it takes much to see that the recruitment structure within the club right now works - they target specific players and he joins an already impressive front line and because of the quality already there he can be eased in 

I have only seen him against us and he troubled VVD a number of times with his pace and power.


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## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s always strange when new players arrive into the Prem from other leagues

Nunez for example is only 22 , you can see through his career how he is progressing

As an example he was on par with Diaz in terms of output with the Portuguese league

I don’t expect other teams fans to be “quaking” in their boots but I don’t think it takes much to see that the recruitment structure within the club right now works - they target specific players and he joins an already impressive front line and because of the quality already there he can be eased in

I have only seen him against us and he troubled VVD a number of times with his pace and power.
		
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Yeah, don't get me wrong, he could be amazing or he could flop, at this point it just remains to be seen. I'm more worried by Haaland at City, purely because Bundesliga is a better like that the Portuguese, and his international record is ridiculous despite playing for a pretty poor nation. But similarly, that could easily go the way of Grealish, where he's not in the side every week and doesn't quite show what he's capable of.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 14, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536769450720075776
All confirmed 

Two players in so far under the age of 23 , a young right back from Aberdeen supposedly next and that’s prob our summer done 

It will be a shame to see Mane go though


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## Billysboots (Jun 14, 2022)

It seems everyone is announcing big signings, and strengthening their squads. Apart from the club which needs it most, obviously.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2022)

Three clubs have signed attacking players from south america

Arsenal Marquinhos £3 million.
ManCity Alvarez £14 Million.
Liverpool Nunez £85 Million.

Time will tell who got a fantastic deal.


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## fundy (Jun 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Three clubs have signed attacking players from south america

Arsenal Marquinhos £3 million.
ManCity Alvarez £14 Million.
Liverpool Nunez £85 Million.

Time will tell who got a fantastic deal.
		
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i know whos 3rd favourite


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## fundy (Jun 14, 2022)

I see City trying to buy Raum from Hoffenheim, be a decent buy that


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## Slime (Jun 14, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			It seems everyone is announcing big signings, and strengthening their squads. Apart from the club which needs it most, obviously.
		
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It's the same old crap we suffer every year, I've almost got used to it!


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## Billysboots (Jun 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			It's the same old crap we suffer every year, I've almost got used to it!
		
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If we bought everyone we’ve been linked with we’d win the league by virtue of the fact nobody else has any players left.


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## Jimaroid (Jun 14, 2022)

This is the sort of transfer I can get behind.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536780645908848640


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 14, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			This is the sort of transfer I can get behind.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536780645908848640

Click to expand...

Do we know if it will be squeaky clean money? We might not be very good but if we can take the moral high ground that might save us 😉😆


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## Jimaroid (Jun 14, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do we know if it will be squeaky clean money? We might not be very good but if we can take the moral high ground that might save us 😉😆
		
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There’s no such thing as clean money. This group is significantly financed by dirty gold mining around the world with a record of various human rights abuses. But, hey, it’s not Arab and it’s not Russian so we’re good. 👍


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## Slime (Jun 14, 2022)

England are certainly missing Maguire tonight.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I'd agree with both of those points.

The rumours of us signing Richarlison aren't going away either. It's making me sad. I think he's a bang average player and a monumental prick into the bargain. If we did sign him he'd have to go some to win me over. (I'm sure he's bothered what I think.)
		
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We will be looking to sign a better foreign player than Richarlison I’d be very surprised if that happens he won’t be a good enough addition to the squad.


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## Billysboots (Jun 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			England are certainly missing Maguire tonight.
		
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We’re going backwards (literally) at a worrying rate. Way, way too conservative, inviting teams onto us. I do wonder how long we will have to put up with Southgate.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 14, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do we know if it will be squeaky clean money? We might not be very good but if we can take the moral high ground that might save us 😉😆
		
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Imagine if you got taken over by the Saudis & they did a “Man City” with you.
Some peoples social media would explode 😂😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Jun 14, 2022)

How many games are they flogging the players for? Seriously 

It's been a long season as it is 

They got all the way to the euro final 

The world cup is November

Surely this nation league is a just too much

Give them a rest

Season not far off starting


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## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2022)

Anyone still Think Southgate is doing a good job.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			How many games are they flogging the players for? Seriously

It's been a long season as it is

They got all the way to the euro final

The world cup is November

Surely this nation league is a just too much

Give them a rest

Season not far off starting
		
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 As much as I totally agree with every word, it’s not the players who are struggling. It is Southgate.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			As much as I totally agree with every word, it’s not the players who are struggling. It is Southgate.
		
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he gets enough of a break in the season gets no excuse


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## pokerjoke (Jun 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			How many games are they flogging the players for? Seriously

It's been a long season as it is

They got all the way to the euro final

The world cup is November

Surely this nation league is a just too much

Give them a rest

Season not far off starting
		
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Agreed it’s mental how many games they are asked to play.

One thing we have learned tonight though is Phillips can’t play without Rice.


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## fundy (Jun 14, 2022)

So embarassing Kane


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## chrisd (Jun 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyone still Think Southgate is doing a good job.
		
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I blame Stones getting himself sent off 😖


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## nickjdavis (Jun 14, 2022)

Brilliant third goal...swift incisive attack, sharp crisp passing, clinical finish.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jun 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			As much as I totally agree with every word, it’s not the players who are struggling. It is Southgate.
		
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He's never been good enough, but it's ok he's a "nice bloke".
He should observe the best club teams......pressing from the word go is how they do it and even the Italians are trying to play that way now.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I blame Stones getting himself sent off 😖
		
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I think he played for an early break 🤔😳😁. Missis T bless her has saved me from another 10 mins of dross, emmerdale is on.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 14, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I blame Stones getting himself sent off 😖
		
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Have they got VAR ?
That’s embarrassing from the ref.
It’s not even a foul.

Shocking display again from England.
How will he explain this one.


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## SteveJay (Jun 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyone still Think Southgate is doing a good job.
		
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Time for him to go .....he is clueless. Understandable crowd reaction when he brings on Maguire when we are 0-3 down!!!!


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 14, 2022)

Oh dear.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 14, 2022)

Everyone wanted him to go more attacking 

Maybe this is his way of showing everyone look guys .. we aren't as good as we think


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## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2022)

On the BBC site, comment after 87 minutes.

Quote
No identity in a World Cup year. I I have been saying the same and couldn’t put it better.


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## nickjdavis (Jun 14, 2022)

....and an even better 4th.....utterly clinical


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## Swango1980 (Jun 14, 2022)

I only just found out England were playing. I honestly was not expecting them to have a 4th consecutive game, well after the proper season ended. 

However, horrific score. Going to be very hard to bring any confidence going into the World Cup after this string of results. 

Worst home defeat since the 1920's. Southgate is still a genius though....


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## BiMGuy (Jun 14, 2022)

Got to be odds on favourites for the World Cup now


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Everyone wanted him to go more attacking

Maybe this is his way of showing everyone look guys .. we aren't as good as we think
		
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If that’s more attacking it’s crap.
The only save of note for the keeper was to stop an own goal.


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## Beezerk (Jun 14, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			He should observe the best club teams......pressing from the word go is how they do it and even the Italians are trying to play that way now.
		
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Bang on.
Southgate somehow doesn't see how poor we are against the high press, we are clueless and give it away far too cheaply. We need to hard press from the front ourselves and put the opponents on the back foot.


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## fundy (Jun 14, 2022)

how did the Italians pressing go tonight?


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 14, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			He's never been good enough, *but it's ok he's a "nice bloke".*
He should observe the best club teams......pressing from the word go is how they do it and even the Italians are trying to play that way now.
		
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And he's an FA "Yes man". Plenty of people will defend him by saying we got to a World Cup semi and the Euros final but apart from Germany in the Euros when was the last time we beat a half decent team?


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## nickjdavis (Jun 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			how did the Italians pressing go tonight?
		
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The were oppressed by the Germans.


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## Beezerk (Jun 14, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			The were oppressed by the Germans.
		
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## Swango1980 (Jun 14, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Have they got VAR ?
That’s embarrassing from the ref.
It’s not even a foul.

Shocking display again from England.
How will he explain this one.
		
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VAR is never used for a yellow card, even a second one.

But, still an awful decision


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			So embarassing Kane
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536807562972213250
a clear 10

Actually glad to see the likes of TAA and Henderson not involved so they get a rest 

I can’t believe there isn’t one left back in England that’s fit


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			VAR is never used for a yellow card, even a second one.

But, still an awful decision
		
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Right I thought once he produced red it s looked at.
That’s pretty poor VAR being misused. Why have it then.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 14, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Right I thought once he produced red it s looked at.
That’s pretty poor VAR being misused. Why have it then.
		
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I guess if they used it for the second yellow, they'd then have to also use it for the first? After all, if they used it in tonight's game, the second yellow would have been overturned. However, in another game, a red would be given if the second yellow was fair. However, what if the first yellow was clearly wrong? 

I'm guessing that is partly the reason. Also, yellows might be even more subjective than straight reds generally. So, given the controversy over some red card decisions and VAR in past, I can imagine the debates when it is over a yellow. But, tonight was a clear mistake.


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## Hobbit (Jun 14, 2022)

Baffling… Had Southgate already written off this Micky Mouse competition? First choice players on the bench, first choice players not even in the squad…if it was an experiment, it backfired badly. If it wasn’t an experiment, it backfired badly. We’re players out injured or worn out?

Baffling, utterly baffling.


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## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2022)

Just seen the score - hahaha! How embarrassing. What an utterly pointless competition and a total waste of time at the end of a long, long season. Obviously not our strongest team and even the players with something to prove clearly can't be bothered.

But sod it anyway, Southgate out! 🤣


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## pauljames87 (Jun 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Just seen the score - hahaha! How embarrassing. What an utterly pointless competition and a total waste of time at the end of a long, long season. Obviously not our strongest team and even the players with something to prove clearly can't be bothered.

But sod it anyway, Southgate out! 🤣
		
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The irony is it has the potential to be decent, the concept is good. Lesser teams get the chance to win games as they play each other and stuff 

Just it's shunted In around other things and is just too much


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 14, 2022)

Southgate out!!! Easy to say that but who do you bring in instead? I've got a suggestion. This guy looks like he'd be perfect for football management........


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## ger147 (Jun 14, 2022)

England have clearly never recovered from their crushing 0-0 defeat against Scotland last summer.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The irony is it has the potential to be decent, the concept is good. Lesser teams get the chance to win games as they play each other and stuff

Just it's shunted In around other things and is just too much
		
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I agree, in that it's better for the lower ranked teams to play against other teams that are closer to their ability to give them the opportunity to improve rather than getting stuffed every match. I've never understood the point of putting San Marino up against Germany or Gibraltar up against Spain in the World Cup or Euros. Neither team learns anything or improves by winning/losing 10-0.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Agreed it’s mental how many games they are asked to play.

One thing we have learned tonight though is Phillips can’t play without Rice.
		
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All these games have shown is it's rice plus another next to him 

They have also shown Phillips and Bellingham might not be ready .. well Phillips did have the injury 

Think JWP would be the perfect partner


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## Golfmmad (Jun 14, 2022)

Just watched Gareth Southgates interview and he summed it up perfectly. 
Don't panic guys!


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## Hobbit (Jun 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The irony is it has the potential to be decent, the concept is good. Lesser teams get the chance to win games as they play each other and stuff

Just it's shunted In around other things and is just too much
		
Click to expand...

It may have the potential to be good but in terms of the World Cup, the Euros and ‘targeted‘ (development) friendlies, club games, inc. cups, Champion’s League etc just where does it fit into the calendar? In isolation, it might have some small merit… no, it’s just total rubbish and needs dropping


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## SteveJay (Jun 14, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I agree, in that it's better for the lower ranked teams to play against other teams that are closer to their ability to give them the opportunity to improve rather than getting stuffed every match. I've never understood the point of putting San Marino up against Germany or Gibraltar up against Spain in the World Cup or Euros. Neither team learns anything or improves by winning/losing 10-0.
		
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That's good then, as England will be playing against the lesser rated teams next time, once we have been relegated.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 14, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			It may have the potential to be good but in terms of the World Cup, the Euros and ‘targeted‘ (development) friendlies, club games, inc. cups, Champion’s League etc just where does it fit into the calendar? In isolation, it might have some small merit… no, it’s just total rubbish and needs dropping
		
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Agreed 

Some changes work well but it is dragging out players seasons

The changes to Europe this season bringing in conference and making Europa shorter was a good move 

Sometimes less is more


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## srixon 1 (Jun 14, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Southgate out!!! Easy to say that but who do you bring in instead? I've got a suggestion. This guy looks like he'd be perfect for football management........







Click to expand...

Well he’s not got much else to do for a few years yet. 🤣


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## williamalex1 (Jun 14, 2022)

ger147 said:



			England have clearly never recovered from their crushing 0-0 defeat against Scotland last summer.
		
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## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Bang on.
Southgate somehow doesn't see how poor we are against the high press, we are clueless and give it away far too cheaply. We need to hard press from the front ourselves and put the opponents on the back foot.
		
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This all day, but there is a massive flaw in southgates inability to do this. When you play with four defenders and two holding defensive players. That leaves four players to press and it just will not work. You need more than four. Southgate played one game with 7 defensive players. There’s not a cat in hells chance you can press with that formation.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2022)

What I couldn’t understand during the game,  for one of the goals walker was at right back and James right side midfield. Why play two right backs. Why not a right back and a right side midfielder. One who defends and one who can do both.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 14, 2022)

SteveJay said:



			That's good then, as England will be playing against the lesser rated teams next time, once we have been relegated.
		
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Can we be relegated far enough that we might actually be competitive next time out?


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## Rlburnside (Jun 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This all day, but there is a massive flaw in southgates inability to do this. When you play with four defenders and two holding defensive players. That leaves four players to press and it just will not work. You need more than four. Southgate played one game with 7 defensive players. There’s not a cat in hells chance you can press with that formation.
		
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You can’t really say it’s a flaw of Southgates tactics  because he never sets his team to work the high press that’s not what he’s asking them to do.  

You could argue that he should play a more aggressive high press game but that’s not his style. 

But I agree with most we’ve got to change and find how to get the best out of some of our young talented attacking players. 

I’m worried we’re going to revert to type at the World Cup especially after the last 4 games and be very defensive


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## Rlburnside (Jun 14, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Just watched Gareth Southgates interview and he summed it up perfectly.
Don't panic guys!
		
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See Spurs are going to sign Bissouma from Brighton what do you think of him, just got to keep him out of nightclubs😱


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## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			You can’t really say it’s a flaw of Southgates tactics  because he never sets his team to work the high press that’s not what he’s asking them to do. 

You could argue that he should play a more aggressive high press game but that’s not his style.

But I agree with most we’ve got to change and find how to get the best out of some of our young talented attacking players.

I’m worried we’re going to revert to type at the World Cup especially after the last 4 games and be very defensive
		
Click to expand...

I struggle to see how a back four, with Bellingham and Rice in centre mid is not a solid basis. ( Mount, Phillips and others for centre mid ). There’s plenty to slot in either side with Kane and an other up front. But it just don’t seem we have any identity or style of play. New players are being brought in to play what system 🤔


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## Hobbit (Jun 14, 2022)

Just out of curiosity I gave a brief thought to the number of games players could be asked to play. 38 league matches. A League and FA cup run, maybe 3 or 4 if the team progresses well. A Champion’s League run, 6 or whatever. Several internationals.

50 matches. Chalk a few off for being rested, or an accumulation of yellow cards. Let’s call it 45. 45 in a 45 week season, inc internationals. Madness!


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## RRidges (Jun 14, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Just out of curiosity I gave a brief thought to the number of games players could be asked to play. 38 league matches. A League and FA cup run, maybe 3 or 4 if the team progresses well. A Champion’s League run, 6 or whatever. Several internationals.

50 matches. Chalk a few off for being rested, or an accumulation of yellow cards. Let’s call it 45. 45 in a 45 week season, inc internationals. Madness!
		
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Given the millions they are paid, that's still an obscenely enormous rate of pay!


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## Slime (Jun 14, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Just out of curiosity I gave a brief thought to the number of games players could be asked to play. 38 league matches. A League and FA cup run, maybe 3 or 4 if the team progresses well. A Champion’s League run, 6 or whatever. Several internationals.

50 matches. Chalk a few off for being rested, or an accumulation of yellow cards. Let’s call it 45. *45 in a 45 week season*, inc internationals. Madness!
		
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That's one game a week .............................. and they get tired?


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess if they used it for the second yellow, they'd then have to also use it for the first? After all, if they used it in tonight's game, the second yellow would have been overturned. However, in another game, a red would be given if the second yellow was fair. However, what if the first yellow was clearly wrong?

I'm guessing that is partly the reason. Also, yellows might be even more subjective than straight reds generally. So, given the controversy over some red card decisions and VAR in past, I can imagine the debates when it is over a yellow. But, tonight was a clear mistake.
		
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Yes see the logic .
But when does a clear and obvious error get checked?
I can’t remember any ref admitting to one!


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## Swango1980 (Jun 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes see the logic .
But when does a clear and obvious error get checked?
I can’t remember any ref admitting to one!
		
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They do every time they go to the screen and overturn their original decision.

VAR is simply not used for throw ins, corners, yellows, free kicks, etc. So, undoubtedly mistakes will always occur and VAR is powerless against it.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			That's one game a week .............................. and they get tired?
		
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It's not just one game though. Typically they'll play 2 games a week in general, during the height of the season, and maybe get a few weeks off at end of season.

The games they play will be at the elite level of football. It is not a kick about for a pub team on a Sunday. They need to give their all, put their bodies to the limit, or risk playing like Man Utd.

They have their training sessions, that they will also be putting their body under some physical activity. It needs to be at a pretty intense level, to boost their fitness and be prepared for repeating what they do in training in the intensity of a match.

They also have the pre season where they play games. 

I'm sure the money makes them very happy. But, it doesn't make them superheroes where their bodies can ignore the normal impacts of biology. There is also the mental side, where humans can sometimes do with getting away from repetitive activities and recharge their mental batteries. 

Still, doesn't really vindicate the way England played in this international break. Was pretty awful and uninspiring.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			That's one game a week .............................. and they get tired?
		
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Plus travel for all the games ..yes half are at home but a lot of travel around the country, training for the matches 

Don't get me wrong it's not like a normal job where that would be little work but they clearly get fatigue which causes injuries 

Christmas in this country is mental for figures


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## Beezerk (Jun 15, 2022)

A few things I've noticed over the last year of watching England.
Phillips is very limited as a player, he's good but not top international quality.
Is Foden really the new Messiah like he's been made out to be? His decision making is very poor at times much like Sterling.
Grealish seems to worry defenders as soon as he comes on and rarely loses the ball, yet he never gets a start.
Selection of some defenders is puzzling given how they are clearly struggling for form.
I never thought I'd say it but I think we missed Henderson in the middle just to calm things down.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 15, 2022)

Anyone else not really bothered about the results in these meaningless games?
Let the players go on holiday and unwind after a long season.
Be totally different in the WC.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 15, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Anyone else not really bothered about the results in these meaningless games?
Let the players go on holiday and unwind after a long season.
Be totally different in the WC.
		
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The boo boys at the stadium cared at the very least


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## Piece (Jun 15, 2022)

My concern with Southgate and England currently is, as mentioned by others, our attacking identity. We are decent at playing the ball around the back, knocking it wide, but we just don't have that presence where it counts, in a big attacking hole outside the penalty area. Seemingly we have the players, yet we can't make it work.

Southgate has credit in the bank. He has done a very good job in transforming our style of play from long ball to a more possession based one. However, it's more than time to move up to the next level. This is where Southgate is having trouble shifting away from his apparent negative tactics to make use of this talent we have.

Two more games to find a bit of confidence, two more games to find some semblance of an attacking threat. Will Gareth use those two games to experiment again, or bang out his preferred first team in the hope it gives that momentum?


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## Swango1980 (Jun 15, 2022)

I think I'd give Southgate much more credit if he treated the Nations League like club sides treat the League Cup. Don't pick any of the top players at all, let them rest. Use England youngsters. 

Only reason to pick England's best players is if you want to work on their tactics, their understanding as a team and their confidence. If you do that though, you need to make sure the players are absolutely up for it. And you can't just change the team every game, as it makes that plan redundant anyway.


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## Swinglowandslow (Jun 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It's not just one game though. Typically they'll play 2 games a week in general, during the height of the season, and maybe get a few weeks off at end of season.

The games they play will be at the elite level of football. It is not a kick about for a pub team on a Sunday. They need to give their all, put their bodies to the limit, or risk playing like Man Utd.

They have their training sessions, that they will also be putting their body under some physical activity. It needs to be at a pretty intense level, to boost their fitness and be prepared for repeating what they do in training in the intensity of a match.

They also have the pre season where they play games.

I'm sure the money makes them very happy. But, it doesn't make them superheroes where their bodies can ignore the normal impacts of biology. There is also the mental side, where humans can sometimes do with getting away from repetitive activities and recharge their mental batteries.

Still, doesn't really vindicate the way England played in this international break. Was pretty awful and uninspiring.
		
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"In the intensity of a match"?

All I see a lot of the time is passing sideways and backwards at almost walking pace.! So many times the easy option is taken.
As for fitness. These are young men with all facilities available to keep them that way. 
Sure, they have to put in the hours if training, but there are thousands of young men all over the country putting in those hours, getting physically fit as they can for games of football, rugby, hockey etc- and all after a full day's work.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 15, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			"In the intensity of a match"?

All I see a lot of the time is passing sideways and backwards at almost walking pace.! So many times the easy option is taken.
As for fitness. These are young men with all facilities available to keep them that way. 
Sure, they have to put in the hours if training, but there are thousands of young men all over the country putting in those hours, getting physically fit as they can for games of football, rugby, hockey etc- and all after a full day's work.
		
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They put in the intensity for their clubs. Especially City and Liverpool players. Whether they are jaded, or it is tactics, when playing for England is another matter.

You can't really compare professional athletes with amateur young men. The amateurs are not playing anywhere near the level of the professional athletes. Physical fitness is less of an issue, as their opponents will have many major flaws to exploit in terms of ability and tactically. Plenty of amateurs will play games when they are nowhere near their physical peak, and get away with it. A professional footballer goes from 8% body fat to 9% body fat and suddenly they are accused as being out of shape and given nicknames like Fat Frank. Whilst amateur athletes are the stars of their team, despite having 20% body fat.


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## Neilds (Jun 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Plus travel for all the games ..yes half are at home but a lot of travel around the country, training for the matches

Don't get me wrong it's not like a normal job where that would be little work but they clearly get fatigue which causes injuries

Christmas in this country is mental for figures
		
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So the travel is that bad it makes all the top clubs in the premier league undertake pre season tours on the other side of the planet?!?
People always make out that English players play much more football than anyone else, but forget that the majority of players are from other countries and probably play more premier league matches than the English players


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## Tashyboy (Jun 15, 2022)

Re players playing to much.
I would Imagine we all agree the players playing for the international teams are supposedly the best of the best. Whether that be City, Liverpool or Leeds and a West Ham. My point is those players are virtually nailed on to play most of the season. Furthermore these players need to be match fit. Or at the peak of there game. not a standard of returning from injury and needing match minutes to get to game fitness. These players then get picked for there international teams.
KDB was allowed by Belgium to miss the last Nations game coz basically he was knackered. Are we saying he is the only one 🤔
Now if you are a fringe player trying to break into the England team, there’s no way your saying when your chance comes “ I need a break”.
But new players coming in, they should be playing Within a system that is now engrained in Englands style of play, there identity. Like Liverpool and City do, and others. But what is it. There in for me lies a massive problem. The more I see England play the more I believe the players are carrying Southgate and like last night when it goes wrong it goes massively wrong.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 15, 2022)

Neilds said:



			So the travel is that bad it makes all the top clubs in the premier league undertake pre season tours on the other side of the planet?!?
People always make out that English players play much more football than anyone else, but forget that the majority of players are from other countries and probably play more premier league matches than the English players
		
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I think what people are saying in different ways is that players are abused Re how much is expected from them.

Clubs play pre season games at the other end of the planet because There club wants to grow there club/ product.
UEFA have a meaningless competition at the end of a busy season.
The FA have the league cup that nigh on no one takes seriously.


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## Slime (Jun 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



*I think what people are saying in different ways is that players are abused Re how much is expected from them.*

Clubs play pre season games at the other end of the planet because There club wants to grow there club/ product.
UEFA have a meaningless competition at the end of a busy season.
The FA have the league cup that nigh on no one takes seriously.
		
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Abused?
I'm not in that camp, they're elite athletes, they're supposed to work hard, I would for £100K+ per week.
Comparisons are very difficult, but look at what an elite cyclist or tennis player goes through.
I just don't buy this tiredness thing.
Two games a week, that's three hours, with team mates doing their share of work in what is almost a non-contact sport.
Nope, I just don't get it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2022)

It is not just physical though is it? It is mental tiredness. Playing elite games, under pressure, week after week takes its toll. The players need a mental break as much as a physical one.

The amount they get paid is irrelevant in all this. That doesn't alter the human factor.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Abused?
I'm not in that camp, they're elite athletes, they're supposed to work hard, I would for £100K+ per week.
Comparisons are very difficult, but look at what an elite cyclist or tennis player goes through.
I just don't buy this tiredness thing.
Two games a week, that's three hours, with team mates doing their share of work in what is almost a non-contact sport.
Nope, I just don't get it.
		
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It’s impossible to compare across different sports as physiques and endurance requirements are completely different. Ask a professional cyclist to recreate the movement of a player like Rice or Philips make over the course of a game and they would struggle. Especially with their PEDs.

It’s not necessarily the fitness that is a problem it’s recovery plus wear and tear on the body. A lot of players are never 100% fit either.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is not just physical though is it? It is mental tiredness. Playing elite games, under pressure, week after week takes its toll. The players need a mental break as much as a physical one.

The amount they get paid is irrelevant in all this. That doesn't alter the human factor.
		
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What? Being paid £100k per week doesn’t make you stronger and faster?


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## Bamberdele2.0 (Jun 15, 2022)

Southgate needs to do one, sharpish.

Ever since he decided to cash out and take the piss by putting a bag on his head for that Pizza Hut advert for what was probably one of the most traumatic experiences of my childhood really gets to me. I’m still not over it.

Easiest routes in the WC and don’t even get me started on the Euro final.

But yeah, everyone jumped on his sack and bought waistcoats.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			What? Being paid £100k per week doesn’t make you stronger and faster?
		
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Nope. £150k minimum before the super powers kick in


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## Hobbit (Jun 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Abused?
I'm not in that camp, they're elite athletes, they're supposed to work hard, I would for £100K+ per week.
Comparisons are very difficult, but look at what an elite cyclist or tennis player goes through.
I just don't buy this tiredness thing.
Two games a week, that's three hours, with team mates doing their share of work in what is almost a non-contact sport.
Nope, I just don't get it.
		
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Obviously they don’t do any training between games either, nor are the fringe players trying flat out in training to impress. The stats for ground covered during a game, and then add in tackles etc doesn’t impress either and I’ve never seen a player go down with cramp they’re obviously just jogging around a bit, nowhere near the limits of their physical capabilities


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## GB72 (Jun 15, 2022)

The problem as far as this armchair football follower sees it is that nothing has changed but we have been flattered by circumstance.

I tend to ignore the qualifaction record. Good, bad or indifferent, we have for some time now been qualifying for the major tournaments but I cannot recall the last time we had serious oppostion to worry about in a group other than the lottery of home nations matches. So, Southgate is dining out on a World Cup semi and the Euro final. With regards the World Cup, we really did not face any massive opposition but needed penalties to beat Columbia and lost in a semi that we really should have been able to win given the teams on the pitch. Pretty much the same with the Euros. We made it one stage further but should never have lost that match to Italy when we were a goal ahead. We tried to sit on the lead and were not good enough to do that.

The same will happen in Quatar, no real threat in the group (though the match against Wales could be dodgy) then we will see how it goes from there.

The attacking talent is there but we just do not seem to know how to use it or to play in a style that suits what is played in the premier league week in and week out.

I also do not accept the point of players being tired and the games not mattering. If that were the case, and I do believe the players were tired, leave them all at home and take the B squad to see what they do. If the games do not matter then surely playing the reserves does not matter either as the result would be irrelevant.

But the biggest point yesterday was the difference in the attitude of 2 teams. The cricket team are taking the plaudits because they went out to entertain and to win, the football team take the grief because they go out there not to lose.


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## Billysboots (Jun 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It's not just one game though. Typically they'll play 2 games a week in general, during the height of the season, and maybe get a few weeks off at end of season.

The games they play will be at the elite level of football. It is not a kick about for a pub team on a Sunday. They need to give their all, put their bodies to the limit, or risk playing like Man Utd.

They have their training sessions, that they will also be putting their body under some physical activity. It needs to be at a pretty intense level, to boost their fitness and be prepared for repeating what they do in training in the intensity of a match.

They also have the pre season where they play games.

I'm sure the money makes them very happy. But, it doesn't make them superheroes where their bodies can ignore the normal impacts of biology. There is also the mental side, where humans can sometimes do with getting away from repetitive activities and recharge their mental batteries.

Still, doesn't really vindicate the way England played in this international break. Was pretty awful and uninspiring.
		
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Have the other nations not just finished their seasons too, though?


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## Billysboots (Jun 15, 2022)

GB72 said:



			The problem as far as this armchair football follower sees it is that nothing has changed but we have been flattered by circumsance.

I tend to ignore the qualifaction record. Good, ba or indifferent, we have for some time now been qualifying for the major tournaments but I cannot recall the last time we had serious oppostion to worry about in a group other than the lottery of home nations matches. So, Southgate is dining out on a World Cup semi and the Euro final. With regards the World Cup, we really did not face any massive opposition but needed penalties to beat Columbia and lost in a semi that we really should have been able to win given the teams on the pitch. Pretty much the same with the Euros. We made it one stage further but should never have lost that match to Italy when we were a goal ahead. We tried to sit on the lead and were not good enough to do that.

The same will happen in Quatar, no real threat in thte group (though the match against Wales could be dodgy) then we will see how it goes from there.

The attaching talent is there but we just do not seem to know how to use it or to play in a style that suits what it played in the premier league week in and week out.

I also do not accept the point of players being tired and the games not mattering. If that were the case, and I do believe the players were tired, leave them all at home and take the B squad to see what they do. If the games do not matter they surely playing the reserves does not matter either as the result would be irrelevant.

But the biggest point yesterday was the difference in the attitude of 2 teams. The cricket team are taking the plaudits becasuse they went out to entertain and to win, the football team take the grief because they go out there not to lose.
		
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^^^^ This. With bells and whistles on.


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## williamalex1 (Jun 15, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Just out of curiosity I gave a brief thought to the number of games players could be asked to play. 38 league matches. A League and FA cup run, maybe 3 or 4 if the team progresses well. A Champion’s League run, 6 or whatever. Several internationals.

50 matches. Chalk a few off for being rested, or an accumulation of yellow cards. Let’s call it 45. 45 in a 45 week season, inc internationals. Madness!
		
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My mate Wullie Pettigrew said he played 65 in one season,  including league, cups, Scotland under 23s, and Scotland senior team games plus Texaco cup games.


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## BrianM (Jun 15, 2022)

Joe Aribo played 70 games for club and country this season, too many games in my opinion.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 15, 2022)

williamalex1 said:



			My mate Wullie Pettigrew said he played 65 in one season,  including league, cups, Scotland under 23s, and Scotland senior team games plus Texaco cup games.
		
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...and see Youtube clips of the pitches he played upon...I love this one - the Scottish football 'legend' that is WullieP (and don't you just love Arthur's commentary)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2022)

GB72 said:



			The problem as far as this armchair football follower sees it is that nothing has changed but we have been flattered by circumsance.

I tend to ignore the qualifaction record. Good, ba or indifferent, we have for some time now been qualifying for the major tournaments but I cannot recall the last time we had serious oppostion to worry about in a group other than the lottery of home nations matches. So, Southgate is dining out on a World Cup semi and the Euro final. With regards the World Cup, we really did not face any massive opposition but needed penalties to beat Columbia and lost in a semi that we really should have been able to win given the teams on the pitch. Pretty much the same with the Euros. We made it one stage further but should never have lost that match to Italy when we were a goal ahead. We tried to sit on the lead and were not good enough to do that.

The same will happen in Quatar, no real threat in thte group (though the match against Wales could be dodgy) then we will see how it goes from there.

The attaching talent is there but we just do not seem to know how to use it or to play in a style that suits what it played in the premier league week in and week out.

I also do not accept the point of players being tired and the games not mattering. If that were the case, and I do believe the players were tired, leave them all at home and take the B squad to see what they do. If the games do not matter they surely playing the reserves does not matter either as the result would be irrelevant.

But the biggest point yesterday was the difference in the attitude of 2 teams. The cricket team are taking the plaudits becasuse they went out to entertain and to win, the football team take the grief because they go out there not to lose.
		
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But don’t forget “it’s coming home”

The runs to the semi final and final enabled people to ignore how Southgate is just not good enough

He has a method in the World Cup relying on being solid and set pieces and somehow it made Maguire a £80mil player , but as soon as he come up against the better teams it just didn’t work when it matters 

England have a host of brilliant talented players that are crucial for their club teams in the biggest comps - they need a manage who can adapt and bring those together


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## williamalex1 (Jun 15, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and see Youtube clips of the pitches he played upon...I love this one - the Scottish football 'legend' that is WullieP (and don't you just love Arthur's commentary)







Click to expand...

More like a mud bath, I've heard all his stories umpteen times


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2022)

williamalex1 said:



			My mate Wullie Pettigrew said he played 65 in one season,  including league, cups, Scotland under 23s, and Scotland senior team games plus Texaco cup games.
		
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Apparently Kalvin Philips ran 15km against Denmark in the Euro's the other year. He is extreme but fitness and distances run by modern players is off the scale compared to older players. Watch an old Math of the Day or The Big Match and the pace of play is pedestrian. Still good to watch but very pedestrian.


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## rudebhoy (Jun 15, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and see Youtube clips of the pitches he played upon...I love this one - the Scottish football 'legend' that is WullieP (and don't you just love Arthur's commentary)







Click to expand...

I was at that game!


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## BiMGuy (Jun 15, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and see Youtube clips of the pitches he played upon...I love this one - the Scottish football 'legend' that is WullieP (and don't you just love Arthur's commentary)







Click to expand...

None of those players would last 20 minutes in the modern game. 

And before anyone says current players wouldn’t be able to cope with the tackles. The players from past generations wouldn’t get close enough. 

Back in the early 2000s I could do a sub 40 minute 10k with dodgy kneels and considered myself fit. At the time I’d played in 5 aside games with players in a PL team. I was out on my arse before they had even got warm.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			None of those players would last 20 minutes in the modern game.

And before anyone says current players wouldn’t be able to cope with the tackles. The players from past generations wouldn’t get close enough.

Back in the early 2000s I could do a sub 40 minute 10k with dodgy kneels and considered myself fit. At the time I’d played in 5 aside games with players in a PL team. I was out on my arse before they had even got warm.
		
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Lots of ex pros play 5 a side when they retire   , you can always tell anyone who's played the game at professional level


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Lots of ex pros play 5 a side when they retire   , you can always tell anyone who's played the game at professional level
		
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A few years ago they had Masters tournaments around the country. Ex-players playing 5/6 a side at concert venues, like the O2 in London, Arena's in Newcastle, Manchester etc. Great concept, I went with my lad. Some could barely run, Mickey Quinn for Newcastle , but the touch of all of them was superb. Craig Hignett, ex Boro, still had his legs and so had both touch and fitness. Boro got to the final, won I think, largely on the back of him. Anyway, 5 a side suits ex players perfectly as it is their legs that go, not their minds or their touch.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			What? Being paid £100k per week doesn’t make you stronger and faster?
		
Click to expand...

And more injury prone 👍


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## Tashyboy (Jun 15, 2022)

GB72 said:



			The problem as far as this armchair football follower sees it is that nothing has changed but we have been flattered by circumsance.

I tend to ignore the qualifaction record. Good, ba or indifferent, we have for some time now been qualifying for the major tournaments but I cannot recall the last time we had serious oppostion to worry about in a group other than the lottery of home nations matches. So, Southgate is dining out on a World Cup semi and the Euro final. With regards the World Cup, we really did not face any massive opposition but needed penalties to beat Columbia and lost in a semi that we really should have been able to win given the teams on the pitch. Pretty much the same with the Euros. We made it one stage further but should never have lost that match to Italy when we were a goal ahead. We tried to sit on the lead and were not good enough to do that.

The same will happen in Quatar, no real threat in thte group (though the match against Wales could be dodgy) then we will see how it goes from there.

The attaching talent is there but we just do not seem to know how to use it or to play in a style that suits what it played in the premier league week in and week out.

I also do not accept the point of players being tired and the games not mattering. If that were the case, and I do believe the players were tired, leave them all at home and take the B squad to see what they do. If the games do not matter they surely playing the reserves does not matter either as the result would be irrelevant.

*But the biggest point yesterday was the difference in the attitude of 2 teams. The cricket team are taking the plaudits becasuse they went out to entertain and to win, the football team take the grief because they go out there not to lose.*

Click to expand...

Very good post and this hits the nail on the head. The cricket coach has been brought in to entertain and let the players be themselves. Then there is Gareth who don’t. 👍


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## Beezerk (Jun 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Apparently Kalvin Philips ran 15km against Denmark in the Euro's the other year. He is extreme but fitness and distances run by modern players is off the scale compared to older players. Watch an old Math of the Day or The Big Match and the pace of play is pedestrian. Still good to watch but very pedestrian.
		
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I’m working in Oldham and had a chinwag with a City fan, he said they’re preparing a 50m bid for Philips 😱
Oh and he said Foden IS the next Messiah 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61810148

I hope people in Spain do irony. Real Madrid throwing their toys out of the pram because there are now clubs out there who can out muscle them financially . Bless em.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 15, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Have the other nations not just finished their seasons too, though?
		
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Absolutely, and they too are players who have played too many games. Smaller nations may have players who have mot played as many, if their clubs didn't have domestic and european cup runs though. 

Too many games is not a get out clause for Englands performances. There are several factors. I also don't know the details of how much football the players in the German, Italian and Hungarain teams have played.


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## Golfmmad (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			None of those players would last 20 minutes in the modern game.

And before anyone says current players wouldn’t be able to cope with the tackles. The players from past generations wouldn’t get close enough.

Back in the early 2000s I could do a sub 40 minute 10k with dodgy kneels and considered myself fit. At the time I’d played in 5 aside games with players in a PL team. I was out on my arse before they had even got warm.
		
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It's all about training effect though. I reckon if you put those PL players in your 10k, they would be out on their arses at about 5k! 
Your other point about players of the past not being quick or fit enough, I'd say that if the George Best were playing now he'd run riot and be priceless!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It's all about training effect though. I reckon if you put those PL players in your 10k, they would be out on their arses at about 5k!
Your other point about players of the past not being quick or fit enough, I'd say that if the George Best were playing now he'd run riot and be priceless!
		
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I am firmly in the camp that good players would be good in whatever era. They might have been able to stroll around the pitch in the past but pro's would adapt and have got fitter if they played now. Same footballing quality, just played at a faster tempo. That or get a proper job .

From what I've seen, Best on good pitches and no one trying to break his legs would be worth more than a few quid


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## BiMGuy (Jun 15, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It's all about training effect though. I reckon if you put those PL players in your 10k, they would be out on their arses at about 5k!
Your other point about players of the past not being quick or fit enough, I'd say that if the George Best were playing now he'd run riot and be priceless!
		
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George Best would have the skills, but if you dropped him exactly as he was back in his day, he wouldn’t last the first half of a PL game.


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## Hobbit (Jun 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I am firmly in the camp that good players would be good in whatever era. They might have been able to stroll around the pitch in the past but pro's would adapt and have got fitter if they played now. Same footballing quality, just played at a faster tempo. That or get a proper job .

From what I've seen, Best on good pitches and no one trying to break his legs would be worth more than a few quid 

Click to expand...

When I watch Messi dribble in tight situations I see Best. The likeness, in that respect, is spine tingling.

I played with guy, me at left back and him at LCB. He‘d played for West Brom and remembers the first time he played against Best. He said the only time he got near Best was when they shook hands at the end of the game, and Best wasn’t out of breath.


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## Slime (Jun 15, 2022)

It's amazing how many on here are slagging Southgate off and saying it's time for him to go ................................... but I can't think of anyone who has suggested who his replacement should be.
Any offers?


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## pauljames87 (Jun 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			It's amazing how many on here are slagging Southgate off and saying it's time for him to go ................................... but I can't think of anyone who has suggested who his replacement should be.
Any offers?
		
Click to expand...

Graham potter


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## BiMGuy (Jun 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			It's amazing how many on here are slagging Southgate off and saying it's time for him to go ................................... but I can't think of anyone who has suggested who his replacement should be.
Any offers?
		
Click to expand...

Bielsa


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## GB72 (Jun 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			It's amazing how many on here are slagging Southgate off and saying it's time for him to go ................................... but I can't think of anyone who has suggested who his replacement should be.
Any offers?
		
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Not sure if he is the answer but Poccetino will be out of a job soon.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 15, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I’m working in Oldham and had a chinwag with a City fan, he said they’re preparing a 50m bid for Philips 😱
Oh and he said Foden IS the next Messiah 😂
		
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I don’t think Messi would be the next Messiah in an England team. It must be demoralising being a Top player being coached by Mike Bassett


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## chrisd (Jun 15, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Your other point about players of the past not being quick or fit enough, I'd say that if the George Best were playing now he'd run riot and be priceless!
		
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You're absolutely right !


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## pauljames87 (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			George Best would have the skills, but if you dropped him exactly as he was back in his day, he wouldn’t last the first half of a PL game.
		
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He would also prob be cancelled for being a wife beater


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## BiMGuy (Jun 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He would also prob be cancelled for being a wife beater
		
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And rightly so!


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## pauljames87 (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			And rightly so!
		
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I doubt many would make it now. Ability is unquestionable but lifestyle? How many went out on the lash before a game. smoked.. more than now for sure


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## Golfmmad (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			George Best would have the skills, but if you dropped him exactly as he was back in his day, he wouldn’t last the first half of a PL game.
		
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Entirely disagree! 😎


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## BiMGuy (Jun 15, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Entirely disagree! 😎
		
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You honestly think he would be fit enough to cope with a modern premier league game? Not a chance.


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## Golfmmad (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			You honestly think he would be fit enough to cope with a modern premier league game? Not a chance.
		
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Yes of course he would. The now beautiful playing surfaces, lighter ball, fitted boots. I don't know why you think it's so special now compared to yesteryear.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 15, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Yes of course he would. The now beautiful playing surfaces, lighter ball, fitted boots. I don't know why you think it's so special now compared to yesteryear.
		
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His levels of booze consumed he would never keep up with the modern pace.


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## Golfmmad (Jun 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			His levels of booze consumed he would never keep up with the modern pace.
		
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I'm talking about when he was in his prime not in the latter stages of his career.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 15, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I'm talking about when he was in his prime not in the latter stages of his career.
		
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He still drank at the start of his career , it's if he could have got on in training at modern level.


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## Fade and Die (Jun 15, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Yes of course he would. The now beautiful playing surfaces, lighter ball, fitted boots. I don't know why you think it's so special now compared to yesteryear.
		
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Don’t you know that Millenials invented everything! No such thing as top football before 1992. 😁


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## pauljames87 (Jun 15, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Don’t you know that Millenials invented everything! No such thing as top football before 1992. 😁
		
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All those 11 year olds in board rooms making these calls 

It's the boomers who invented it


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## Hobbit (Jun 15, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Don’t you know that Millenials invented everything! No such thing as top football before 1992. 😁
		
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To be fair, the millennials have taken shirt pulling, wrestling at corners and triple axel rolls when clipped to a whole new level of temper tantrums.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jun 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			It's amazing how many on here are slagging Southgate off and saying it's time for him to go ................................... but I can't think of anyone who has suggested who his replacement should be.
Any offers?
		
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Do we need to?


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## Tashyboy (Jun 15, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Do we need to?
		
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No.
And if anyone is trying to convince me that should Southgate be sacked no one would apply for his job then am playing left handed .


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## BiMGuy (Jun 15, 2022)

Always fun to see the oldies get triggered and start resulting to insults.

A nice pitch and light boots won’t make up for the deficiency in fitness.


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## Golfmmad (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Always fun to see the oldies get triggered and start resulting to insults.

A nice pitch and light boots won’t make up for the deficiency in fitness.
		
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Tell me, who's resulted to insults? 
And we'll have to agree to disagree on George Best.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 15, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Tell me, who's resulted to insults?
And we'll have to agree to disagree on George Best.
		
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Not you. And we will as we’ll never know.

But people massively underestimate how fit players are today.


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## Crazyface (Jun 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Graham potter
		
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Had a chat with a Brighton fan last night and he was convinced Potter was in line for the job. Infinitely better qualified than that clown Southgate. Also Graham Potter is an ex Macclesfield Town player, so another good reason to give him the job.😁


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## pauljames87 (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Not you. And we will as we’ll never know.

But people massively underestimate how fit players are today.
		
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When I was younger I was a member of a gym in Romford that sponsored West ham. The players used to use the gym when the club's training ground was being done up

Once I got down there and Joe cole was on the tred mill, 2 hours later I left after my swim and attempting to work out.. he was still jogging away

That was over 2 decades ago.. I think they are a level above that now


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## Golfmmad (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Not you. And we will as we’ll never know.

But people massively underestimate how fit players are today.
		
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I certainly don't, but I'm surprised at how many injuries players suffer, considering how fit they are.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 15, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I certainly don't, but I'm surprised at how many injuries players suffer, considering how fit they are.
		
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Faster pace of play can lead to lots of injuries 

Modern boots are like socks they don't provide as much support as they used to 

Change of direction at pace can cause all kind of movements 

Impact at that speed can cause injuries 

Over working the muscles due to more games crammed together 

All kinds of reasons


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## Golfmmad (Jun 15, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			When I was younger I was a member of a gym in Romford that sponsored West ham. The players used to use the gym when the club's training ground was being done up

Once I got down there and Joe cole was on the tred mill, 2 hours later I left after my swim and attempting to work out.. he was still jogging away

That was over 2 decades ago.. I think they are a level above that now
		
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Nah, he had you fooled there. After an hour he had a couple of pints to keep him going for the last hour! 🤣🤣🤣


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## Hobbit (Jun 15, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Always fun to see the oldies get triggered and start resulting to insults.

A nice pitch and light boots won’t make up for the deficiency in fitness.
		
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I thought it was all just banter… my fault for not adding a smiley.


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## Beezerk (Jun 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			It's amazing how many on here are slagging Southgate off and saying it's time for him to go ................................... but I can't think of anyone who has suggested who his replacement should be.
Any offers?
		
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The Forest manager.


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## Slime (Jun 16, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Not you. And we will as we’ll never know.

*But people massively underestimate how fit players are today.*

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Apparently, they're all tired.


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Yes of course he would. The now beautiful playing surfaces, lighter ball, fitted boots. I don't know why you think it's so special now compared to yesteryear.
		
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Do you not realise that everything about the modern player's lifestyle is different now? They don't drink, they have nutritionists so they are eating the right foods all of the time, they spend time in the gym - they're absolute athletes. If Best or anyone from that era was playing now, he clearly had the talent, but he'd have had to buck his ideas up in terms of lifestyle or else @BiMGuy is right, he wouldn't last five minutes.


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Had a chat with a Brighton fan last night and he was convinced Potter was in line for the job. Infinitely better qualified than that clown Southgate. Also Graham Potter is an ex Macclesfield Town player, so another good reason to give him the job.😁
		
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I think he's a very good manager, and the wing backs system actually suits the England side if done properly and not just a flat back five like Southgate's version.

I would love to see Pochettino take over though, on a personal level. I bet he'd love to work with Kane again too. 😁


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## fundy (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think he's a very good manager, and the wing backs system actually suits the England side if done properly and not just a flat back five like Southgate's version.

I would love to see Pochettino take over though, on a personal level. I bet he'd love to work with Kane again too. 😁
		
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maybe he could get Kane to play as a striker again?


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			maybe he could get Kane to play as a striker again? 

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He would at least be able to teach someone else to actually run beyond him when he drops deep. That's what Dele was doing back when he was actually good, and later on he developed Son to play that way to good effect.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 16, 2022)

Fixtures are out 

Very well balanced fixtures for Villa. No real horror runs of "Big 6" teams on the bounce.

Start at Bouremouth, finish at Villa Park - happy days.

Looking forward to it already!


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## fundy (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He would at least be able to teach someone else to actually run beyond him when he drops deep. That's what Dele was doing back when he was actually good, and later on he developed Son to play that way to good effect.
		
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when you say run beyond him you mean play someone else up front the amount Kane drops deep these days for England!

genuinely think if Kane is going to keep playing as he is England need to play another striker "alongside"


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			when you say run beyond him you mean play someone else up front the amount Kane drops deep these days for England!

genuinely think if Kane is going to keep playing as he is England need to play another striker "alongside"
		
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Well not really, it's about timing of runs but I think you know that and you're being facetious. 

My opinion is that the more stale and less creative the team is, the more Kane comes deep to look for the ball. If the team was actually playing with some attacking verve he wouldn't need to. I have noticed it with Spurs, if we're playing well in attack he doesn't drop off nearly as much, and if he does, it's as I said, to link with Son or Kulusevski who play off him and get in the box, so it works.


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## fundy (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Well not really, it's about timing of runs but I think you know that and you're being facetious. 

My opinion is that the more stale and less creative the team is, the more Kane comes deep to look for the ball. If the team was actually playing with some attacking verve he wouldn't need to. I have noticed it with Spurs, if we're playing well in attack he doesn't drop off nearly as much, and if he does, it's as I said, to link with Son or Kulusevski who play off him and get in the box, so it works.
		
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Partly facetious yes but is another indicator of the lack of a coherent structure/plan currently with Kane regularly occupying the space where the midfielders need to be working and against defenses that are sitting pretty deep and dont have room to run in behind (as you do get in some prem games). Him dropping deep for England doesnt work and just creates more problems. There are several issues currently but this is quite a big one imo (almost as big as not picking a left footer at LB, he really needs to have another option after Shaw and Chilwell even if it means playing Saka there)

Dont think Southgate is going away from 5 at the back come the worlds so for me he needs to commit to playing proper wingbacks, the 2 he wants in midfield and keep Kane as an out and out striker. That leaves room for 2 more attacking players out of Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Mount, Saka etc

Something like:
GK
James 3CBs Chilwell
Rice Bellingham
Sterling Kane Foden

Wouldnt be my choice personally but think its the best we can hope for (injuries/form permitting)


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## pokerjoke (Jun 16, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Had a chat with a Brighton fan last night and he was convinced Potter was in line for the job. Infinitely better qualified than that clown Southgate. Also Graham Potter is an ex Macclesfield Town player, so another good reason to give him the job.😁
		
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Imo would be a crazy appointment


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			Partly facetious yes but is another indicator of the lack of a coherent structure/plan currently with Kane regularly occupying the space where the midfielders need to be working and against defenses that are sitting pretty deep and dont have room to run in behind (as you do get in some prem games). Him dropping deep for England doesnt work and just creates more problems. There are several issues currently but this is quite a big one imo (almost as big as not picking a left footer at LB, he really needs to have another option after Shaw and Chilwell even if it means playing Saka there)

Dont think Southgate is going away from 5 at the back come the worlds so for me he needs to commit to playing proper wingbacks, the 2 he wants in midfield and keep Kane as an out and out striker. That leaves room for 2 more attacking players out of Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Mount, Saka etc

Something like:
GK
James 3CBs Chilwell
Rice Bellingham
Sterling Kane Foden

Wouldnt be my choice personally but think its the best we can hope for (injuries/form permitting)
		
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You’ve left Southgates favourite non entity player Mount out of that lineup 🙈


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			Partly facetious yes but is another indicator of the lack of a coherent structure/plan currently with Kane regularly occupying the space where the midfielders need to be working and against defenses that are sitting pretty deep and dont have room to run in behind (as you do get in some prem games). Him dropping deep for England doesnt work and just creates more problems. There are several issues currently but this is quite a big one imo (almost as big as not picking a left footer at LB, he really needs to have another option after Shaw and Chilwell even if it means playing Saka there)

Dont think Southgate is going away from 5 at the back come the worlds so for me he needs to commit to playing proper wingbacks, the 2 he wants in midfield and keep Kane as an out and out striker. That leaves room for 2 more attacking players out of Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Mount, Saka etc

Something like:
GK
James 3CBs Chilwell
Rice Bellingham
Sterling Kane Foden

Wouldnt be my choice personally but think its the best we can hope for (injuries/form permitting)
		
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Yeah, I think it comes down to coaching. As a former centre back and a 'pragmatic' shall we say manager, it seems like Southgate just spends most of his coaching time on defending. Other than Sterling who does it occasionally, I don't think the other attackers get close enough to Kane. Having said that, Grealish usually seems to link up well with Kane but they rarely get enough minutes together. 

That is basically the system Conte uses, but for him wing backs are attackers first and defenders second, whereas for Southgate I think it's the other way around, which drastically alters how the formation plays. I don't even think Chilwell is an ideal LWB as I see him more of a back four left back. Saka may even be the best starting option there you know. Similar to Spurs when we started picking Sessegnon over Reguilon. With proper wing backs you can get the ball forward more directly and Kane doesn't need to bugger off looking for it quite as much.


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## Golfmmad (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Do you not realise that everything about the modern player's lifestyle is different now? They don't drink, they have nutritionists so they are eating the right foods all of the time, they spend time in the gym - they're absolute athletes. If Best or anyone from that era was playing now, he clearly had the talent, but he'd have had to buck his ideas up in terms of lifestyle or else @BiMGuy is right, he wouldn't last five minutes.
		
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Yes of course I realise players lifestyles are different now, absolutely. 
As I've already said Best in his youth, late teens early twenties, would have no problem with fitness in today's game. I'm sure a lot of players still have a few drinks on the quiet. 
Of course he wouldn't be able to keep it up for as long as he did in his latter career. The exuberance of youth was his friend. 😎


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2022)

Fixtures for next season 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61783101


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Yes of course I realise players lifestyles are different now, absolutely.
As I've already said Best in his youth, late teens early twenties, would have no problem with fitness in today's game. I'm sure a lot of players still have a few drinks on the quiet.
Of course he wouldn't be able to keep it up for as long as he did in his latter career. The exuberance of youth was his friend. 😎
		
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He was before my time, so I will bow to your judgement on him. But the overriding impression was that he was very much into drinking, gambling, being a ladies man etc. Do you think many modern managers would even stand for that? It's not the done thing for Premier League footballers nowadays. Would he have cut back on it?


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## Leftitshort (Jun 16, 2022)

This is a silly argument. Players from 40/30/20 years ago,  in the physical condition they were then, no chance. Wouldn’t last 20mins. But if George best played now, he would benefit from all of the advances in sports science/fitness/diet. & be a superstr.
I’f not he couldn’t cut it. Football is a different game now vs 30 years ago


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## Jimaroid (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It's not the done thing for Premier League footballers nowadays.
		
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I can’t think of a single premier league player that’s not into the ladies.


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I can’t think of a single premier league player that’s not into the ladies.
		
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But they get absolutely slated when caught out, whereas in Best's time it was probably laughed off or even encouraged.


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## Jimaroid (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			But they get absolutely slated when caught out, whereas in Best's time it was probably laughed off or even encouraged.
		
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Nonsense, the entire WAG culture of hangers on and trophy wives is worse now than it ever has been.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			This is a silly argument. Players from 40/30/20 years ago,  in the physical condition they were then, no chance. Wouldn’t last 20mins. But if George best played now, he would benefit from all of the advances in sports science/fitness/diet. & be a superstr.
I’f not he couldn’t cut it. Football is a different game now vs 30 years ago
		
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Sums it up 

The best players in those days still had the highest ability - there is no doubt they would be conforming to the current physical standards needed


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## Golfmmad (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He was before my time, so I will bow to your judgement on him. But the overriding impression was that he was very much into drinking, gambling, being a ladies man etc. Do you think many modern managers would even stand for that? It's not the done thing for Premier League footballers nowadays. Would he have cut back on it?
		
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No, he wouldn't be allowed such freedom nowadays. 
The question was relating to his fitness and I would argue all day long that, "In his prime", and younger days he would easily handle todays fitness regimes. 
And accept, he would have to conform. 👍


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## GB72 (Jun 16, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			No, he wouldn't be allowed such freedom nowadays.
The question was relating to his fitness and I would argue all day long that, "In his prime", and younger days he would easily handle todays fitness regimes.
And accept, he would have to conform. 👍
		
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Agreed, and the comparison is not a fair one. You cannot make the comparison by assuming that that someone in their youth all those years ago would have the same attitudes to many aspects of life now. Best would have been brought up with modern sensibilities and attitudes to lifestyle if he played now as he was doing in his own youth where drinking, smoking, being on the front pages of the paper etc were seen as normal and expected. 

If you are looking at generational comparisons, I think that you can only look at skill levels and have to assume that fitness and attitudes would be in tune with the generation you are comparing with. 

Lets look at it the other way, do you think that Ronaldo or Messi could have cut it in on ploughed field pitches with old boots, a heavy ball and having drunk 10 pints and smoked 20 JPS the night before whilst living on a 1960s diet.


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## Golfmmad (Jun 16, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Agreed, and the comparison is not a fair one. You cannot make the comparison by assuming that that someone in their youth all those years ago would have the same attitudes to many aspects of life now. Best would have been brought up with modern sensibilities and attitudes to lifestyle if he played now as he was doing in his own youth where drinking, smoking, being on the front pages of the paper etc were seen as normal and expected.

If you are looking at generational comparisons, I think that you can only look at skill levels and have to assume that fitness and attitudes would be in tune with the generation you are comparing with.

Lets look at it the other way, do you think that Ronaldo or Messi could have cut it in on ploughed field pitches with old boots, a heavy ball and having drunk 10 pints and smoked 20 JPS the night before whilst living on a 1960s diet.
		
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Probably not! 😁 
I don't think that Best was a smoker though.


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Agreed, and the comparison is not a fair one. You cannot make the comparison by assuming that that someone in their youth all those years ago would have the same attitudes to many aspects of life now. Best would have been brought up with modern sensibilities and attitudes to lifestyle if he played now as he was doing in his own youth where drinking, smoking, being on the front pages of the paper etc were seen as normal and expected.

If you are looking at generational comparisons, I think that you can only look at skill levels *and have to assume that fitness and attitudes would be in tune with the generation you are comparing with.*

Lets look at it the other way, do you think that Ronaldo or Messi could have cut it in on ploughed field pitches with old boots, a heavy ball and having drunk 10 pints and smoked 20 JPS the night before whilst living on a 1960s diet.
		
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I don't agree that we can _assume_ that. Plenty of talented players have disappeared from the modern game because they didn't have the work ethic. I agree more with your first point that it's impossible to say whether someone like Best would have knuckled down to today's standards, or whether he'd have dropped out. In modern day football he could have been a Messi or he could have been an Adel Taarabt.


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't agree that we can _assume_ that. Plenty of talented players have disappeared from the modern game because they didn't have the work ethic.
		
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Gazza, a world class player ruined by alcohol and bad decisions.


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## Orikoru (Jun 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Gazza, a world class player ruined by alcohol and bad decisions.
		
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In addition to appalling hounding by journalists too.


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			In addition to appalling hounding by journalists too.
		
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He liked a good kebab though so I have to admire him for that 😂


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## GB72 (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't agree that we can _assume_ that. Plenty of talented players have disappeared from the modern game because they didn't have the work ethic. I agree more with your first point that it's impossible to say whether someone like Best would have knuckled down to today's standards, or whether he'd have dropped out. In modern day football he could have been a Messi or he could have been an Adel Taarabt. 

Click to expand...

A fair point but then again, even taking Gazza as an example, things have changed since even the 1990s. You have to assume that Best would have been noticed as a very young kid, would have been working in or with a big team accademy before he was even a teenager and would have had every aspect of his life managed before any bad habbits even had the chance to set in.


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## Jimaroid (Jun 16, 2022)

Best and Gazza are about a 20 year gap at their peaks. It is now 32 years since Gazza cried.


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Best and Gazza are about a 20 year gap at their peaks. It is now 32 years since Gazza cried.
		
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Blimey, I suddenly feel really old 😢


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## Neilds (Jun 16, 2022)

GB72 said:



			A fair point but then again, even taking Gazza as an example, things have changed since even the 1990s. You have to assume that Best would have been noticed as a very young kid, would have been working in or with a big team accademy before he was even a teenager and would have had every aspect of his life managed before any bad habbits even had the chance to set in.
		
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Are you saying that the modern players are so well coached that they don't have any bad habits?  No sneaking women back into team hotels, getting drunk, inhaling hippy crack and whatever else the young pros get up to nowadays?


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2022)

Hippy crack 😂😂😂
Do you mean laughing gas?


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## GB72 (Jun 16, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Are you saying that the modern players are so well coached that they don't have any bad habits?  No sneaking women back into team hotels, getting drunk, inhaling hippy crack and whatever else the young pros get up to nowadays?
		
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Not all but i am saying that there are systems in place to try and reduce the occurances of such things as well as mental health professionals to help with issues. I would add that many of these things that are seriously frowned upong now were actively encouraged as part of the celebrity lifestyle in the 60s and 70s. Not saying that Best etc would not have isssues now but they would not be seen as part of the norm as they were in previous generations, even as recently as the 90s.


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## Slime (Jun 16, 2022)

If Best were playing today he'd be an absolute beast.


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## BiMGuy (Jun 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			Apparently, they're all tired.
		
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#yawn


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## Slime (Jun 16, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			#yawn
		
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Oh, are you tired also.


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			If Best were playing today he'd be an absolute beast.
		
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An honest question, with the problems he had do you think he would genuinely get brought through the system these days? I mean he had a hell of a lot of demons going on which would still exist was he a modern player.


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## Slime (Jun 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			An honest question, with the problems he had do you think he would genuinely get brought through the system these days? I mean he had a hell of a lot of demons going on which would still exist was he a modern player.
		
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With the right manager, absolutely.


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## fundy (Jun 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			With the right manager, absolutely.
		
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so no then


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			With the right manager, absolutely.
		
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It depends on just how much support he is getting I guess, but if the club knew he had major problems I’m not sure they would really touch him, specially given the bad press players get nowadays at any slight indiscretion.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He would at least be able to teach someone else to actually run beyond him when he drops deep. That's what Dele was doing back when he was actually good, and later on he developed Son to play that way to good effect.
		
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A genuine question, why does Kane need to drop deep when Southgate plays with three at the back or even four, there’s enough in front without Kane dropping for it.When I have seen Kane drop for the ball it’s because midfield is not producing and again that’s down to a system under Gareth that’s not working.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			With the right manager, absolutely.
		
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Always wondered what would've happened if Gascoigne had gone to Man Utd and had Ferguson as his manager when he left Newcastle rather than going to Spurs. Obviously there's no way of knowing but things could've been so different.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I think it comes down to coaching. As a former centre back and a 'pragmatic' shall we say manager, *it seems like Southgate just spends most of his coaching time on defending. *Other than Sterling who does it occasionally, I don't think the other attackers get close enough to Kane. Having said that, Grealish usually seems to link up well with Kane but they rarely get enough minutes together.

That is basically the system Conte uses, but for him wing backs are attackers first and defenders second, whereas for Southgate I think it's the other way around, which drastically alters how the formation plays. I don't even think Chilwell is an ideal LWB as I see him more of a back four left back. Saka may even be the best starting option there you know. Similar to Spurs when we started picking Sessegnon over Reguilon. With proper wing backs you can get the ball forward more directly and Kane doesn't need to bugger off looking for it quite as much.
		
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you could swop Southgates name for Stuart Pearce. When he was manager of Man City it is was Rammel on a level I had never seen. It was as if we don’t lose it’s a victory. It was a season of the lowest ever goals at City and some of the worst football I had ever seen. Southgate and Pearce are two peas in a pod.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 16, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Always wondered what would've happened if Gascoigne had gone to Man Utd and had Ferguson as his manager when he left Newcastle rather than going to Spurs. Obviously there's no way of knowing but things could've been so different.
		
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I'm not sure that would have been a long relationship. Gazza went to multiple clubs and was the same all over. I doubt Walter Smith was a pushover but Ally Mccoist can talk all night with Gazza stories from his time then.


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## 4LEX (Jun 16, 2022)

Not a Southgate fan but not sure you can read too much into the recent results. At the end of a long and gruelling season having 4 games in 10 days or whatever was madness. Grealish had spent a week on the piss before the squad met up, which says it all.

He should be replaced with Poch if it was possible but the FA will give him until the World Cup regardless. Hopefully Poch takes a break and sits tight until November/December and he can get the pick of the jobs be it England, Man Utd, Arsenal or even the likes of Juve and Bayern.

I would get rid of Saka from the line up, he's just a try hard with limited quality. The worry is Southgate is picking players on personality rather than actual quality at this point.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 17, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Not a Southgate fan but not sure you can read too much into the recent results. At the end of a long and gruelling season having 4 games in 10 days or whatever was madness. Grealish had spent a week on the piss before the squad met up, which says it all.

He should be replaced with Poch if it was possible but the FA will give him until the World Cup regardless. Hopefully Poch takes a break and sits tight until November/December and he can get the pick of the jobs be it England, Man Utd, Arsenal or even the likes of Juve and Bayern.

I would get rid of Saka from the line up, he's just a try hard with limited quality. The worry is Southgate is picking players on personality rather than actual quality at this point.
		
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I was with you until saka. The boy is class. Been carrying arsenal


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## Tashyboy (Jun 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I was with you until saka. The boy is class. Been carrying arsenal
		
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Again I think Arteta is getting more out of Saka than Gareth is.


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## fundy (Jun 17, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Again I think Arteta is getting more out of Saka than Gareth is.
		
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The bigger worry will be when Pep/Klopp are getting more out of Saka than Arteta 

He pretty much carried our attack most of the season, despite being so young, coming into the season off the back of the missed pen and oppo trying to kick him out of pretty much every game, playing with a non scoring striker, and still Arteta couldnt find a way to rest him and use the £70m wonderkid Pepe lol. He was spent 10 games before the end of the season let alone into these games


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			The bigger worry will be when Pep/Klopp are getting more out of Saka than Arteta 

He pretty much carried our attack most of the season, despite being so young, coming into the season off the back of the missed pen and oppo trying to kick him out of pretty much every game, playing with a non scoring striker, and still Arteta couldnt find a way to rest him and use the £70m wonderkid Pepe lol. He was spent 10 games before the end of the season let alone into these games
		
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I thought Saka played ok in the games I saw.
One thing was he was quite isolated at times because Kane decided he wants to play Centre Midfield.
So when he was looking for help there wasn’t anyone there.

That’s the managers fault imo he’s useless.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			The bigger worry will be when Pep/Klopp are getting more out of Saka than Arteta 

He pretty much carried our attack most of the season, despite being so young, coming into the season off the back of the missed pen and oppo trying to kick him out of pretty much every game, playing with a non scoring striker, and still Arteta couldnt find a way to rest him and use the £70m wonderkid Pepe lol. *He was spent 10 games before the end of the season let alone into these games*

Click to expand...

Don't be silly. Professional footballers shouldn't get tired, they get paid loads of money


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## Orikoru (Jun 17, 2022)




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## fundy (Jun 17, 2022)

Well thats gonna be easy for the songwriters lol

Viera, he comes from Portugal, he plays for Arsenal....................


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 19, 2022)

Sterling to Chelsea? 
That would be a good move for him and Chelsea imo.
He’s too good to be a bit part player.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538463321346695168
Another young signing - that will prob mean Williams off to Fulham


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## Slime (Jun 19, 2022)

In other news, Manchester United have just signed ................................................ absolutely nobody!
Same old, same old.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538463321346695168
Another young signing - that will prob mean Williams off to Fulham
		
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I know nothing about him but is he likely to come in and then be sent out on loan or will he come in as backup to TAA and maybe a League Cup player?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I know nothing about him but is he likely to come in and then be sent out on loan or will he come in as backup to TAA and maybe a League Cup player?
		
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He won’t be sent on loan - will come in as back up and be a cup player


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## Bdill93 (Jun 20, 2022)

Slime said:



			In other news, Manchester United have just signed ................................................ absolutely nobody!
Same old, same old.
		
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I heard part of the recording of Richard Arnold's meeting with United fans and finally I think you have someone at the top who knows what hes doing.

Pure honesty about the awful spending in recent years and your season this year as a whole - quite refreshing!

You'll sign a few, but for me, your outs this year are more important than what comes in.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 20, 2022)

First signing of the summer 

Nayef Aguerd £30 million 

Fast CB , will complement zouma nicely and mean balondawson will become super cover again 

I believe areola will become the second signing (GK we had on loan)

Then we need to get a left back to sort the defence 

After that only a cm and a striker to balance the entire squad


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2022)

This is the list of the most expensive players in the Prem 

Out of the list is it fair to say only two have been a success with one being a potential 

1. Grealish 
2. Lukaku ( to Chelsea )
3. Pogba 
4. Maguire
5. Sancho 
6. Lukaku ( to Man Utd )
7. Van Dijk
8. Havertz
9. Pepe
10. Arrizabalaga 


Only VVD and Havertz are what I would call a success at the moment 

But that’s a heck of a lot of money spent on players that have failed to live up to expectations


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is the list of the most expensive players in the Prem

Out of the list is it fair to say only two have been a success with one being a potential

1. Grealish
2. Lukaku ( to Chelsea )
3. Pogba
4. Maguire
5. Sancho
6. Lukaku ( to Man Utd )
7. Van Dijk
8. Havertz
9. Pepe
10. Arrizabalaga


Only VVD and Havertz are what I would call a success at the moment

But that’s a heck of a lot of money spent on players that have failed to live up to expectations
		
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Probably Grealish and Sancho have the potential to be a success - still early days for both. Agree with Van Dijk and Havertz.


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## Jimaroid (Jun 20, 2022)

Laughed out loud seeing Lukaku on the list twice. Sums him up nicely.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Laughed out loud seeing Lukaku on the list twice. Sums him up nicely.
		
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Lukaku - the most expensive player in regards total transfers -£291 mil 

And prob about you go out on loan 🤦‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Jun 20, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Laughed out loud seeing Lukaku on the list twice. Sums him up nicely.
		
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I still think he would be perfect for west ham

Bigger club bigger expectations

Did well for Everton didn't he


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## Bdill93 (Jun 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lukaku - the most expensive player in regards total transfers -£291 mil

And prob about you go out on loan 🤦‍♂️
		
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Hopefully the last we see of him in the prem. Too much wasted money on someone who never seems to enjoy the premier league for some reason! (Despite pretty impressive stats over his time here)


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 21, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Hopefully the last we see of him in the prem. Too much wasted money on someone who never seems to enjoy the premier league for some reason! (Despite pretty impressive stats over his time here)
		
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He is one dimensional and if you set up your team accordingly, as West Brom and Everton did, then he will be great for you. If you expect him to slot into a different style then he does not seem capable of dealing with that. Man Utd and Chelsea should have done their homework on him better than they did.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



*He is one dimensional* and if you set up your team accordingly, as West Brom and Everton did, then he will be great for you. If you expect him to slot into a different style then he does not seem capable of dealing with that. Man Utd and Chelsea should have done their homework on him better than they did.
		
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Is that another word for a flat track bully?🤔😉


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## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is one dimensional and if you set up your team accordingly, as West Brom and Everton did, then he will be great for you. If you expect him to slot into a different style then he does not seem capable of dealing with that. Man Utd and Chelsea should have done their homework on him better than they did.
		
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Yeah, I don't think he has a good enough all round game for the top clubs, who mostly like to play one central striker as a kind of 'complete forward'. The two best clubs hardly even play a striker, emphasising that the total football ability is obviously more important nowadays than just tucking the ball in the net. As you say, he's done well when the requirements of him were simpler, basically. Just play off the last defender and stick the ball in the net, he can't really get involved in build-up play much.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I don't think he has a good enough all round game for the top clubs, who mostly like to play one central striker as a kind of 'complete forward'. The two best clubs hardly even play a striker, emphasising that the total football ability is obviously more important nowadays than just tucking the ball in the net. As you say, he's done well when the requirements of him were simpler, basically. Just play off the last defender and stick the ball in the net, he can't really get involved in build-up play much.
		
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When you consider scoring is the hardest thing then it makes sense for lower level teams to base their play around a key striker. That is the difference between staying up and going down, 7th place and 12th etc. It is naive to expect the very top teams to build everything around one player, Messi and Barcelona being a partial exception. If you do that, what happens when they have an off day, get injured etc?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Is that another word for a flat track bully?🤔😉
		
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No,a flat track bully is more someone that only turns up against inferior opposition 👍🏻😉


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## Bdill93 (Jun 22, 2022)

I really hate the football off season.... 

Mane moving to Bayern has been reported for weeks, no one cares anymore - but theres no other stories going on other than Grealish on the lash in Vegas.....

Boring!

Can we get some big money signings out of the blue please?


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## Swango1980 (Jun 22, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I really hate the football off season....

Mane moving to Bayern has been reported for weeks, no one cares anymore - but theres no other stories going on other than Grealish on the lash in Vegas.....

Boring!

Can we get some big money signings out of the blue please?
		
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We would have been going through World Cup Fever. Watch the footy, sunny beer gardens, etc. Sadly, money robbed us of that. Sure, we'll get a dose of World Cup footy at the end of the year, although who cares? We'd have had plenty of football to watch then anyway in a regular season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I really hate the football off season....

Mane moving to Bayern has been reported for weeks, no one cares anymore - but theres no other stories going on other than Grealish on the lash in Vegas.....

Boring!

Can we get some big money signings out of the blue please?
		
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Arsenal have put in a bid for Raphina from Leeds. Surely he wont go there? Apologies Arsenal fans but he can do better can't he?

A quiet one. It looks like Nick Pope is going to Newcastle, estimated £10m. Cracking signing for them and leaves plenty of money in the kitty, FFP


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## Swango1980 (Jun 22, 2022)

Just read on BBC that Cardiff City are in talks with Gareth Bale's representatives. If Bale goes to Cardiff, it would be great for them. But certainly evidence, if it was ever required, that Bale is pretty much done with football for good once the World Cup is over. Just using Cardiff as a way to keep match fit.

That being said, I wonder how often Bale will play for any club he joins. I can imagine he will be desperate to avoid any injuries before the World Cup.


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## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Arsenal have put in a bid for Raphina from Leeds. Surely he wont go there? Apologies Arsenal fans but he can do better can't he?

A quiet one. It looks like Nick Pope is going to Newcastle, estimated £10m. Cracking signing for them and leaves plenty of money in the kitty, FFP 

Click to expand...

Great signing. Pope would be England number 1 for me. Sadly Gareth won't pick him because he can't pass the ball around. Nobody cares if you can keep the ball out of the net or stick a tackle in in modern football.


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## fundy (Jun 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



*Arsenal have put in a bid for Raphina from Leeds. Surely he wont go there? Apologies Arsenal fans but he can do better can't he?*

A quiet one. It looks like Nick Pope is going to Newcastle, estimated £10m. Cracking signing for them and leaves plenty of money in the kitty, FFP 

Click to expand...

No need to apologise  I hope so, because he doesnt appear to want to join us (wants to go to Barca who cant afford him) and doesnt appear to be the sort who stays around when he doesnt want to,so wouldnt expect he stays long if he does join. Theres also a chain of thought that signing Raphinia means Saka may be on the way up north

Unless were buying 7 or 8 players a left footed wide right player for 50m+ shouldnt be high up the priorities at all (unless Saka is leaving)


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## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			No need to apologise  I hope so, because he doesnt appear to want to join us (wants to go to Barca who cant afford him) and doesnt appear to be the sort who stays around when he doesnt want to,so wouldnt expect he stays long if he does join. Theres also a chain of thought that signing Raphinia means Saka may be on the way up north

Unless were buying 7 or 8 players a left footed wide right player for 50m+ shouldnt be high up the priorities at all (unless Saka is leaving)
		
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We've been linked as well, and I think he's a very good player, but I can't really see the point of having him when we already have Kulusevski.


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## Foxholer (Jun 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When you consider scoring is the hardest thing then it makes sense for lower level teams to base their play around a key striker. That is the difference between staying up and going down, 7th place and 12th etc. It is naive to expect the very top teams to build everything around one player, Messi and Barcelona being a partial exception. If you do that, what happens when they have an off day, get injured etc?
		
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Isn't that what Totingham has been doing for a while though? Admittedly 1 target man and a link man/scoring machine combo.


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## Slime (Jun 22, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



*I really hate the football off season....*

Mane moving to Bayern has been reported for weeks, no one cares anymore - but theres no other stories going on other than Grealish on the lash in Vegas.....

Boring!

Can we get some big money signings out of the blue please?
		
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You hate it?
Try being a United supporter!


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			You hate it?
Try being a United supporter!
		
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Which one? Sheffield? West ham? Newcastle? Leeds?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Isn't that what Totingham has been doing for a while though? Admittedly 1 target man and a link man/scoring machine combo.
		
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I think having Son means Spurs are not as dependent on Kane as they otherwise might be. I think they have more to them, but don't see them enough to really push the point 😄


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## Foxholer (Jun 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think having Son means Spurs are not as dependent on Kane as they otherwise might be. I think they have more to them, but don't see them enough to really push the point 😄
		
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The few times I've seen/watched them, it's been pretty simple/dull/'single dimension' stuff, that obviously worked - for the most part. Not sure whether I'd want to watch that style every week, but the few times I've watched Hammers I've been very nervous about the lack of overall quality. Maybe too much time spent watching City/L'pool where every player is world class.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			The few times I've seen/watched them, it's been pretty simple/dull/'single dimension' stuff, that obviously worked - for the most part. Not sure whether I'd want to watch that style every week, but the few times I've watched Hammers I've been very nervous about the lack of overall quality. Maybe too much time spent watching City/L'pool where every player is world class.
		
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They seem to be a very Jekyll and hyde team. Look great one match, awful the next. Certainly excellent on the break, not sure when a team sits deeper.


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## Hobbit (Jun 22, 2022)

Erickson rejects a move to Man Utd. Obviously doesn’t want to be in a relegation scrap


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Erickson rejects a move to Man Utd. Obviously doesn’t want to be in a relegation scrap

Click to expand...

Heard he wants to stay in London 

He wants spurs but don't think Conte wants him 

Chelsea maybe


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			You hate it?
Try being a United supporter!
		
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Is it not a relief when your not playing.?


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 22, 2022)




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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2022)

Rumours that Harry Winks is talking to Everton. What do Spurs fans think of him?


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 22, 2022)




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## ColchesterFC (Jun 22, 2022)

I think that someone has forgotten that Egypt is in Africa. Surely there's no argument that Salah is the best African player currently in the PL, even if Mane was still there. I'm happy to hear any counter-arguments, but you're wrong.


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## 4LEX (Jun 22, 2022)

Salah has the stats and the style but Mane was a machine. Played in three positions and still delivered. I'd put Salah ahead but it isn't that much of a gap, especially over the last 6 months where Salah looked nowhere near the player he was before the AFCON.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Rumours that Harry Winks is talking to Everton. What do Spurs fans think of him?
		
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Poundland Harry winks


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Poundland Harry winks
		
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When that's all you have in your coffers........


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When that's all you have in your coffers........
		
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He's a very average player who I have no idea how he got a cap 

Oliver Skipp will be the next Harry winks


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He's a very average player who I have no idea how he got a cap

Oliver Skipp will be the next Harry winks
		
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Don't worry Super Frank will coach him to new levels 😉


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## Rlburnside (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Rumours that Harry Winks is talking to Everton. What do Spurs fans think of him?
		
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I think Winks is one of them players that has been over coached, he plays to negative most of the time goes for the easy sideways pass to many times instead of trying to influence play more by trying to play more decisive forward passes. 

Good lad and will always try and give his best


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Don't worry Super Frank will coach him to new levels 😉
		
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Working well with dele belly ? 😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Working well with dele belly ? 😉
		
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Full pre season will sort him out 🤭. Was that a stretch too far?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I think Winks is one of them players that has been over coached, he plays to negative most of the time goes for the easy sideways pass to many times instead of trying to influence play more by trying to play more decisive forward passes.

Good lad and will always try and give his best
		
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Might be one where a change of scenery does him good.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Full pre season will sort him out 🤭. Was that a stretch too far?
		
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For England sake I hope so, before he went through this decline he was class


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## Rlburnside (Jun 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He's a very average player who I have no idea how he got a cap

Oliver Skipp will be the next Harry winks
		
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Skipp is a lot better player than Winks and would have played more if it wasn’t for the injury.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Skipp is a lot better player than Winks and would have played more if it wasn’t for the injury.
		
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He has already been replaced by the guy on loan


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## Slime (Jun 23, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is it not a relief when your not playing.?

Click to expand...

Not really, because I'm just watching all the other clubs strengthen their squads whilst United, currently, have bought nobody but got rid of several!


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not really, because I'm just watching all the other clubs strengthen their squads whilst United, currently, have bought nobody but got rid of several!
		
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United have signed players? 

Manchester United may not have

But "United" have


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## Slime (Jun 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			United have signed players?

Manchester United may not have

But "United" have
		
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Oh.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			United have signed players?

Manchester United may not have

But "United" have
		
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I am allowed to laugh at this aren't I? The concept of all powerful Man Utd no longer being 'the UTD'. It is an additional twist of the knife, very funny


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I am allowed to laugh at this aren't I? The concept of all powerful Man Utd no longer being 'the UTD'. It is an additional twist of the knife, very funny 

Click to expand...

they never have been the "united" its only a very arrogant view that they are the only united that matters

not even the first ones (sheffield)


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## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Rumours that Harry Winks is talking to Everton. What do Spurs fans think of him?
		
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I like Winksy but he was never going to hold down a first team place at our level. Good passer but a bit too conservative i.e. sideways. A couple of times a season he'll have an absolute worldy game and control the play, and you'll wonder why he doesn't play like that all the time. He should have been born Spanish, every Spanish team has two of him.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			they never have been the "united" its only a very arrogant view that they are the only united that matters

not even the first ones (sheffield)
		
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I'm sorry it sounds arrogant, but it is also a fact that Manchester United are the biggest "United" football club in the world. Certainly in terms of support, and a global brand football club. So, if "United" is mentioned then pretty much everyone knows what football club we are talking about. Even people that joke "who, Sheffield United, Newcastle United" as a response, are only doing so because they knew exactly what the United in the subject was Manchester United.

I'm not sure about the comment "the only United that matters", in terms of what you mean? To many fans, you could argue that their club is the only one that matters, and perhaps their biggest rivals. As a Man Utd fan, I couldn't really care less about Sutton United, they might as well not exist to me. That is not me saying they shouldn't, as they will have many loyal passionate fans who love their club just like other fans love their own clubs. But, it is all about context. If the back page of a national paper said "Ugly United" or "United Score 4", then I automatically assume it is about Manchester United. If the same headlines were made in the local Sutton rag, then I might assume it is Sutton United they are talking about.

At any rate, it is not just United. I'm pretty sure if "City" is used, people now generally expect the subject to be Manchester City due to their sustained success over the last decade.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I am allowed to laugh at this aren't I? The concept of all powerful Man Utd no longer being 'the UTD'. It is an additional twist of the knife, very funny 

Click to expand...

An Everton fan laughing at a UTD fan 
Great stuff.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			An Everton fan laughing at a UTD fan 
Great stuff.
		
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That's how far they have fallen .

Anyway, after the season we had, you have to laugh don't you?


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's how far they have fallen .

Anyway, after the season we had, you have to laugh don't you?
		
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Yes it’s part of being a fan.
Good or bad it’s still your team.
It’s really crap no footy on telly.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes it’s part of being a fan.
Good or bad it’s still your team.
It’s really crap no footy on telly.
		
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If only we had a world cup rather than an awful ruin the world's seasons to play in winter


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## GB72 (Jun 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			If only we had a world cup rather than an awful ruin the world's seasons to play in winter
		
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If the reason for the results in the Nations League matches were, as claimed, due to player fatigue, I am pretty relieved that it is not the actual World Cup as we would be on the plane home at the first opportunity.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

GB72 said:



			If the reason for the results in the Nations League matches were, as claimed, due to player fatigue, I am pretty relieved that it is not the actual World Cup as we would be on the plane home at the first opportunity.
		
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I think mentally, the players would be in a better place had the WC been now. They knew the Nations League was meaningless so could not get up for it.


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## Slime (Jun 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			they never have been the "united" its only a very arrogant view that they are the only united that matters

not even the first ones (sheffield)
		
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As I am a known supporter of Manchester United, I would have thought that you could have worked it out.
I didn't realise you needed a bit of help, so here it is;

When I refer to United I am referring to Manchester United.


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## Neilds (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think mentally, the players would be in a better place had the WC been now. They knew the Nations League was meaningless so could not get up for it.
		
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Just shows the stupidity of the players of the players if they couldn't motivate themselves for a final push to get noticed and get themselves a seat on the plane to the World Cup.  I would have thought that the fringe players (and some others) should have been busting a gut to show Gareth that they are England quality and can transfer club form to the international scene.


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## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2022)

Slime said:



			As I am a known supporter of Manchester United, I would have thought that you could have worked it out.
I didn't realise you needed a bit of help, so here it is;

When I refer to United I am referring to Manchester United.
		
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But with respect to all clubs please refer to them as their correct name 

Manure


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			If only we had a world cup rather than an awful ruin the world's seasons to play in winter
		
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Taking the MONEY and don’t give a sh.t about players or fans.
A player could die there .


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Taking the MONEY and don’t give a sh.t about players or fans.
A player could die there .
		
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Don't they reckon temps in Nov / Dec will be around 25°C? Nothing compared to World Cups played in June / July in Mexico, Spain, Italy, US etc. I'm not defending giving it to Qatar but moving the date to November / December does sort out the heat issues.


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## GB72 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Don't they reckon temps in Nov / Dec will be around 25°C? Nothing compared to World Cups played in June / July in Mexico, Spain, Italy, US etc. I'm not defending giving it to Qatar but moving the date to November / December does sort out the heat issues.
		
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Does beg the question now as to why you could not have a world cup in Europe in the Winter, see how some of the teams from warmer climates perform in rain, sleet and snow and 50 mph winds


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Does beg the question now as to why you could not have a world cup in Europe in the Winter, see how some of the teams from warmer climates perform in rain, sleet and snow and 50 mph winds

Click to expand...

Can Brazil do it in the cold wind and rain in Stoke on a December Tuesday night?

I dont think so......


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Does beg the question now as to why you could not have a world cup in Europe in the Winter, see how some of the teams from warmer climates perform in rain, sleet and snow and 50 mph winds

Click to expand...

I think it might genuinely be interesting in a few ways. Players wont be exhausted from playing a full season. In fact, they should be at full fitness then. The temps will be modest so we should not get walking football. It will certainly suit northern European countries far more.

Who knows, it may become a more regular thing. I'm sure FIFA will be running a study group to see how it goes.


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think it might genuinely be interesting in a few ways. *Players wont be exhausted from playing a full season*. In fact, they should be at full fitness then. The temps will be modest so we should not get walking football. It will certainly suit northern European countries far more.

Who knows, it may become a more regular thing. I'm sure FIFA will be running a study group to see how it goes.
		
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You think? Most players arent going to have had half an off season let alone proper rest this summer, premier league games then starting earlier and only a week meet up before the world cup starts for real. Going to be plenty of players on empty before it starts let alone come May and the end of the domestic seasons


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## GB72 (Jun 23, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Can Brazil do it in the cold wind and rain in Stoke on a December Tuesday night?

I dont think so...... 

Click to expand...

You would have to play some group matches in Stoke just o find out .


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			You think? Most players arent going to have had half an off season let alone proper rest this summer, premier league games then starting earlier and only a week meet up before the world cup starts for real. Going to be plenty of players on empty before it starts let alone come May and the end of the domestic seasons
		
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If the players are not having an off season then that is down to the ridiculous Nations League and around the world for money pre season tours. I agree, they will be goosed by next May but mid November they should be flying.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If the players are not having an off season then that is down to the ridiculous Nations League and around the world for money pre season tours. I agree, they will be goosed by next May but *mid November they should be flying.*

Click to expand...

I have my doubts the England players will be flying. Southgate is their manager. They'll meet up for the World Cup and he'll feed them with another large dose of negativity. His game plan will be to try and win the world cup by getting a draw and a couple of narrow wins in the group stages, and then winning all the knockout games 1-0. Of course, England may well score an early goal, and for the next 80 or so minutes they'll sit back and play ultra defensive. Invite the opposition on, and England end up losing 2-1 or 3-1. When the opposition score, England will struggle to get back any attacking momentum.

I could be wrong, but it is my best guess at this stage.


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If the players are not having an off season then that is down to the ridiculous Nations League and around the world for money pre season tours. I agree, they will be goosed by next May but mid November they should be flying.
		
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Arsenals pre season is due to start next week, think theres about 4 players reporting at the start! Vast majority of players going to have had far too little recovery time this summer, be plenty miss out on November injured no doubt.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I have my doubts the England players will be flying. Southgate is their manager. They'll meet up for the World Cup and he'll feed them with another large dose of negativity. His game plan will be to try and win the world cup by getting a draw and a couple of narrow wins in the group stages, and then winning all the knockout games 1-0. Of course, England may well score an early goal, and for the next 80 or so minutes they'll sit back and play ultra defensive. Invite the opposition on, and England end up losing 2-1 or 3-1. When the opposition score, England will struggle to get back any attacking momentum.

I could be wrong, but it is my best guess at this stage.
		
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Im fully prepared for this... Well summed up


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Don't they reckon temps in Nov / Dec will be around 25°C? Nothing compared to World Cups played in June / July in Mexico, Spain, Italy, US etc. I'm not defending giving it to Qatar but moving the date to November / December does sort out the heat issues.
		
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That’s heatwave temps to us though.
We might have one or two days and we’re knackered.
But over there that’s everyday for weeks and been underestimated imo.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Can Brazil do it in the cold wind and rain in Stoke on a December Tuesday night?

I dont think so...... 

Click to expand...

Can you imagine Brazil v Argentina live from Stoke.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s heatwave temps to us though.
We might have one or two days and we’re knackered.
But over there that’s everyday for weeks and been underestimated imo.
		
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Cooler, much cooler than temperatures in the countries I mentioned though. I remember the 94 world cup in the US being pretty brutal at times and clearly Mexico in June / July is not for the faint hearted. We're talking mid to late 30's against mid 20's.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Cooler, much cooler than temperatures in the countries I mentioned though. I remember the 94 world cup in the US being pretty brutal at times and clearly Mexico in June / July is not for the faint hearted. We're talking mid to late 30's against mid 20's.
		
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I would not fancy footy anywhere in the mid 20s.
It’s just unnecessary imo .


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			Arsenals pre season is due to start next week, think theres about 4 players reporting at the start! Vast majority of players going to have had far too little recovery time this summer, be plenty miss out on November injured no doubt.
		
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A lack of genuine, end of season, rest has been a growing issue for a number of years now. 

Here's a question then, if you could drop a tournament into any time of the year to find the prime spot for the players, when would it be? Forget disruption to leagues etc.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would not fancy footy anywhere in the mid 20s.
It’s just unnecessary imo .
		
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World Cups only to be played in January and February then, northern hemisphere,  June July for the southern hemisphere? 😄


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A lack of genuine, end of season, rest has been a growing issue for a number of years now.

Here's a question then, if you could drop a tournament into any time of the year to find the prime spot for the players, when would it be? Forget disruption to leagues etc.
		
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During summer school holidays. In UK.
With Parent and child tickets a priority.
To “ grow the game “ as they tell us.
Season only just started so players should be up for the top comp in the world.


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A lack of genuine, end of season, rest has been a growing issue for a number of years now.

Here's a question then, if you could drop a tournament into any time of the year to find the prime spot for the players, when would it be? Forget disruption to leagues etc.
		
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After a nice long summer break and before the season starts, so say September


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			World Cups only to be played in January and February then, northern hemisphere,  June July for the southern hemisphere? 😄
		
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Sounds good .


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			After a nice long summer break and before the season starts, so say September 

Click to expand...

Not match fit then though. Anyway, the season starts in early August now. How about early October?


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not match fit then though. Anyway, the season starts in early August now. How about early October?
		
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Not ideal no because most players have been flogging it for their clubs for 2 months before the tournament starts, reason I said September and no domestic stuff before was to ensure proper rest period. Lets be honest, in world cup years players arent going to get that rest without some creative scheduling (less cup games and/or a shortened league season) but the money men arent letting that happen

At some point club managers have got to take some of the responsibility and cap how many games each player plays in a season and stick to it, instead they moan about the fixture lists but then flog their stars into the ground (how many games rest did Salah or Saka for eg get at club level this year?)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 23, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540019104488329220
2012 - Leaves Utd for free - signs for Juve 

2016 - Man Utd pay £90mil for him 

2022 - Leaves Utd for free - Signs for Juve

Juventus must be laughing their heads off


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## Swango1980 (Jun 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540019104488329220
2012 - Leaves Utd for free - signs for Juve 

2016 - Man Utd pay £90mil for him 

2022 - Leaves Utd for free - Signs for Juve

Juventus must be laughing their heads off
		
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Well, I'm happy.


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2022)

Inter the same with Lukaku back on loan having sold him for 100m last year


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			Inter the same with Lukaku back on loan having sold him for 100m last year
		
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It’s just madness the sort of money spent on some players to then be given away 

Criminal waste of money - in some ways I’m glad we have to be a bit smarter


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s just madness the sort of money spent on some players to then be given away

Criminal waste of money - in some ways I’m glad we have to be a bit smarter
		
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Im saying nothing until we loan out Pepe and end up paying half his 140k a week wages


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			Inter the same with Lukaku back on loan having sold him for 100m last year
		
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Biggest flop in Premier league history?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 24, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Biggest flop in Premier league history?
		
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Flopped at 2 clubs, successful at 2 other PL clubs. 

I'm not sure he beats Veron for me.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Flopped at 2 clubs, successful at 2 other PL clubs.

I'm not sure he beats Veron for me.
		
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Overall maybe not - hes even in the 100 club.

97 million signing being loaned back to where he came from after 1 season though? Takes some beating that....


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## Tashyboy (Jun 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Flopped at 2 clubs, successful at 2 other PL clubs.

I'm not sure he beats Veron for me.
		
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I once watched Veron and beckham warming up before they battered City again at Manine rd. They were pinging balls 60-70 yards to one another and putting it on a shoe lace. When the game started he couldn’t of passed you the brown sauce across the table with out dropping it. Rammel.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 24, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Overall maybe not - hes even in the 100 club.

97 million signing being loaned back to where he came from after 1 season though? Takes some beating that....
		
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Taken as an individual signing then it's hard to disagree but overall I think he escapes the title.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Taken as an individual signing then it's hard to disagree but overall I think he escapes the title.
		
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Maybe just about... But only because of other loan spells  Overall chelsea have spent £114 million in buying Lukaku twice - sold him for £30 million once... 

36 Chelsea appearences in total - 8 goals. 

Football is weird


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## Swango1980 (Jun 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I once watched Veron and beckham warming up before they battered City again at Manine rd. They were pinging balls 60-70 yards to one another and putting it on a shoe lace. When the game started he couldn’t of passed you the brown sauce across the table with out dropping it. Rammel.
		
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Ohhh, how I loved the days we could batter City, even when we carried a player who clearly had a bad game 

Personally, I never really got too frustrated with Veron at United. Sure, he wasn't close to being an outstanding signing, but I never expected him to be an improvement on the Beckham, Keane, Scholes, Giggs midfield. Injuries also didn't help, and I'm sure the Premier League didn't suit his style.

He also played in one of my favourite matched of all time, and scored. Man Utd beating Spurs 5-3, after being 3-0 down at half time. I remember being in pub in my home town of N Ireland watching it with my mate, and us being really depressed at the end of the 1st half. There was an older gentleman, another regular at the pub for football, who was a Liverpool fan. He kept shouting with joy "Come on the Spurs" in the 1st half, much to our frustration. We were half minded to leave at half time, but decided to stay. The second half was such a joy, and we kept shouting "Come on the Spurs" sarcastically as the 4th and 5th goals went in. This has now become a thing, where anytime Utd get battered at the start of a match, we shout "Come on the Spurs". Been shouting it a lot in recent times.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Ohhh, how I loved the days we could batter City, even when we carried a player who clearly had a bad game 

Personally, I never really got too frustrated with Veron at United. Sure, he wasn't close to being an outstanding signing, but I never expected him to be an improvement on the Beckham, Keane, Scholes, Giggs midfield. Injuries also didn't help, and I'm sure the Premier League didn't suit his style.

He also played in one of my favourite matched of all time, and scored. Man Utd beating Spurs 5-3, after being 3-0 down at half time. I remember being in pub in my home town of N Ireland watching it with my mate, and us being really depressed at the end of the 1st half. There was an older gentleman, another regular at the pub for football, who was a Liverpool fan. He kept shouting with joy "Come on the Spurs" in the 1st half, much to our frustration. We were half minded to leave at half time, but decided to stay. The second half was such a joy, and we kept shouting "Come on the Spurs" sarcastically as the 4th and 5th goals went in. This has now become a thing, where anytime Utd get battered at the start of a match, we shout "Come on the Spurs". Been shouting it a lot in recent times.
		
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During the game I mentioned. Utd got a corner in front of there fans. I was at the opposite end looking full length of the pitch down the touch line. Gary Neville leathered a ball down from the halfway line to Beckham who was stood waiting for the ball. It was about knee height and never bounced once. Beckham pulled it out of the air by trapping it between his foot and shin and nonchalantly placed it down For a corner. It was a brilliant bit of skill and the Utd fans went mad.


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## BrianM (Jun 24, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Maybe just about... But only because of other loan spells  Overall chelsea have spent £114 million in buying Lukaku twice - sold him for £30 million once...

36 Chelsea appearences in total - 8 goals.

Football is weird
		
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Just a job for these guys, as much as they want it to work, sometimes it’s better to shake hands and move on 😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Jun 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			During the game I mentioned. Utd got a corner in front of there fans. I was at the opposite end looking full length of the pitch down the touch line. Gary Neville leathered a ball down from the halfway line to Beckham who was stood waiting for the ball. It was about knee height and never bounced once. Beckham pulled it out of the air by trapping it between his foot and shin and nonchalantly placed it down For a corner. It was a brilliant bit of skill and the Utd fans went mad.
		
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Beckham was absolute class. Sadly, I think some don't give him the credit he deserves, possibly because of his lifestyle off the pitch. However, I was always confident he'd give absolutely everything he had for Utd (and England), never hid, plenty of self confidence, technically fantastic and an absolute beast at crossing / passing the ball. Cristiano Ronaldo effectively took his spot when he left. I wonder how many goals Ronaldo would have scored this year if he had a player like Beckham pinging in passes.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 24, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Just a job for these guys, as much as they want it to work, sometimes it’s better to shake hands and move on 😂😂
		
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I do agree - players have no say in transfer fees unless they insert clauses in their contracts - so its not on Lukaku 

Just insane money wasted is all!


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## Golfmmad (Jun 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Beckham was absolute class. Sadly, I think some don't give him the credit he deserves, possibly because of his lifestyle off the pitch. However, I was always confident he'd give absolutely everything he had for Utd (and England), never hid, plenty of self confidence, technically fantastic and an absolute beast at crossing / passing the ball. Cristiano Ronaldo effectively took his spot when he left. I wonder how many goals Ronaldo would have scored this year if he had a player like Beckham pinging in passes.
		
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I watched on sky recently Beckham's greatest goals. He didn't just score from free kicks, some of his goals were uncanny, he seemed to place the ball in the best place where it was the most awkward for the keeper to get to. Also some of the angles he could shoot from! An amazing player and dedication to the game was second to none.


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## Billysboots (Jun 24, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I watched on sky recently Beckham's greatest goals. He didn't just score from free kicks, some of his goals were uncanny, he seemed to place the ball in the best place where it was the most awkward for the keeper to get to. *Also some of the angles he could shoot from!* An amazing player and dedication to the game was second to none.
		
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The goal he scored against Spurs in the final league game of the season in 98/99 was a classic case in point. I don’t think that goal was ever truly given the credit it deserved.


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## Slime (Jun 24, 2022)

The unbelievably greedy ######## called the Glazers.
Most other clubs are strengthening their squads whilst our owners just rape the club out of another £11M.

*BUY SOME PLAYERS, FFS!!!*


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## Billysboots (Jun 24, 2022)

Slime said:



			The unbelievably greedy ######## called the Glazers.
Most other clubs are strengthening their squads whilst our owners just rape the club out of another £11M.

*BUY SOME PLAYERS, FFS!!!*

Click to expand...

It’s shaping up to be another long and frustrating summer unless things start to move really quickly. The new season is a mere six weeks away.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 24, 2022)

Slime said:



			The unbelievably greedy ######## called the Glazers.
Most other clubs are strengthening their squads whilst our owners just rape the club out of another £11M.

*BUY SOME PLAYERS, FFS!!!*

Click to expand...

Be careful what you wish for slimey dear boy 😂


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## Slime (Jun 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Be careful what you wish for slimey dear boy 😂
		
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As long it's not Richarlison or Sterling!!


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## Hobbit (Jun 24, 2022)

Slime said:



			The unbelievably greedy ######## called the Glazers.
Most other clubs are strengthening their squads whilst our owners just rape the club out of another £11M.

*BUY SOME PLAYERS, FFS!!!*

Click to expand...

Don’t worry, Steve McClaren has joined the coaching staff


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## Billysboots (Jun 24, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Don’t worry, Steve McClaren has joined the coaching staff

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To be fair, whilst he was never a great manager, McClaren has always had a very good reputation as a coach.


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## Skytot (Jun 24, 2022)

Looks like City are signing Philips for £45m. Decent price for a 26 yr old international. Don’t think he will be a starter for city but he will relieve the burden on Rodri


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## 4LEX (Jun 24, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			To be fair, whilst he was never a great manager, McClaren has always had a very good reputation as a coach.
		
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He did about 10 years ago!

He came out and said Utd were going to follow the Poch blueprint this week....someone tell him Ten Hag is in charge


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## 4LEX (Jun 24, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			The goal he scored against Spurs in the final league game of the season in 98/99 was a classic case in point. I don’t think that goal was ever truly given the credit it deserved.
		
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Also scored one away at Everton in the final game of the 02/03 season very similar. Beckham was top class, proper player. Star appeal but backed it up.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 25, 2022)

Kalvin Phillips looks set to join Man City,opposition fans getting their knickers in a twist on social media about 🤦‍♂️😂😂


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## Billysboots (Jun 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Kalvin Phillips looks set to join Man City,opposition fans getting their knickers in a twist on social media about 🤦‍♂️😂😂
		
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Strange signing for City. Can’t see him getting that much game time.


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## fundy (Jun 25, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Strange signing for City. Can’t see him getting that much game time.
		
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Decent squad signing for me, will be cover for Rodri in the holding role, will get some game time as Pep shares gametime around. Think hell do well there


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 25, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Strange signing for City. Can’t see him getting that much game time.
		
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He replaces Fernandino , allows Pep to rest Rodri and fills the English quota when/if Sterling leaves 

Will certainly be on the bench for the majority of the Prem and CL games 

it’s the sort of money that clubs spend on guarentee starters but for City it’s the standard price for squad players , Ake the perfect example and prob Cucurella when he arrives


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## fundy (Jun 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He replaces Fernandino , allows Pep to rest Rodri and fills the English quota when/if Sterling leaves

Will certainly be on the bench for the majority of the Prem and CL games

it’s the sort of money that clubs spend on guarentee starters but for City it’s the standard price for squad players , Ake the perfect example and prob Cucurella when he arrives
		
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Cucurella be a regular starter at left back wont he?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			Cucurella be a regular starter at left back wont he?
		
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Instead of Cancelo and then Zinchenko 

Unless they are phasing out Walker and putting Cancelo right back


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## fundy (Jun 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Instead of Cancelo and then Zinchenko

Unless they are phasing out Walker and putting Cancelo right back
		
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Yes imo, Cancelo be at right back and ahead of Zinchenko in their best side


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			Yes imo, Cancelo be at right back and ahead of Zinchenko in their best side
		
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Missing Walkers recovery pace will be interesting for them - does expose the CB’s a bit more - Cancelo is a superb player and was certainly very comfortable on the left - but they have been searching for the full backs for a while now.


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## fundy (Jun 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Missing Walkers recovery pace will be interesting for them - does expose the CB’s a bit more - Cancelo is a superb player and was certainly very comfortable on the left - but they have been searching for the full backs for a while now.
		
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TBH Cancelos ability to cross sides at full back in the big games has bailed them out massively, especially the last year, with the last? LB they paid £50m for otherwise engaged. That and the fact they dont have to do to much defending in the games they have 80% of the ball. Thought a new left back would be very high up their priority list this summer, cant want to have to use centre halves at full back as often as they have this season again so would be amazed if any LB they buy wasnt seen as an expected regular starter


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## Swango1980 (Jun 25, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Strange signing for City. Can’t see him getting that much game time.
		
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I guess it is a very good signing for City. Not so sure if it is a good signing for Phillips, except from a financial point of view. Unless there are injuries, doubt he'll get as much game time as a player of his ability probably would normally get. If Leeds stayed in PL, as they did, I expected him to stay at Leeds to be honest. If he was to leave, I'd have thought Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs might have given him more opportunities to shine whilst given a good wage? Obviously Man Utd also, but I'm sure that was never an option with his Leeds connection


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## Slime (Jun 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess it is a very good signing for City. Not so sure if it is a good signing for Phillips, except from a financial point of view. Unless there are injuries, doubt he'll get as much game time as a player of his ability probably would normally get. If Leeds stayed in PL, as they did, I expected him to stay at Leeds to be honest. If he was to leave, I'd have thought Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs might have given him more opportunities to shine whilst given a good wage? *Obviously Man Utd also, but I'm sure that was never an option with his Leeds connection*

Click to expand...

It would appear that no-one is ever an option for United!


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## Billysboots (Jun 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess it is a very good signing for City. Not so sure if it is a good signing for Phillips, except from a financial point of view. Unless there are injuries, doubt he'll get as much game time as a player of his ability probably would normally get. If Leeds stayed in PL, as they did, I expected him to stay at Leeds to be honest. If he was to leave, I'd have thought Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs might have given him more opportunities to shine whilst given a good wage? *Obviously Man Utd also, but I'm sure that was never an option with his Leeds connection*

Click to expand...

Not sure why his Leeds connection would prevent a move to Old Trafford. Such a connection hasn’t prevented moves previously.


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## Swango1980 (Jun 25, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Not sure why his Leeds connection would prevent a move to Old Trafford. Such a connection hasn’t prevented moves previously.
		
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Only from what I heard from a Leeds fan. Apparently Phillips is a big Leeds boy himself. So, apparently it would be difficult enough for him.personally to leave Leeds, let alone go to Man Utd. He may well hate our guts


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## Swango1980 (Jun 25, 2022)

Slime said:



			It would appear that no-one is ever an option for United!
		
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Now now. Next summer we might buy Pogba for £100 million, or Lukaku.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Only from what I heard from a Leeds fan. Apparently Phillips is a big Leeds boy himself. So, apparently it would be difficult enough for him.personally to leave Leeds, let alone go to Man Utd. He may well hate our guts
		
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Alan Smith 🤷‍♂️


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 25, 2022)

Finally Man Utd have made a great signing in the transfer market. With Mike Riley stepping down as the PL Chief Refereeing Officer, Howard Webb is taking over the role. That's got to be worth 10 to 15 points per season for Man Utd.


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## Slime (Jun 25, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Finally Man Utd have made a great signing in the transfer market. With Mike Riley stepping down as the PL Chief Refereeing Officer, Howard Webb is taking over the role. That's got to be worth 10 to 15 points per season for Man Utd. 

Click to expand...

 .......................................................................................................................................................................................


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## Swango1980 (Jun 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Alan Smith 🤷‍♂️
		
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I'm not saying anything would be impossible. Just that it would be incredibly unlikely. Besides, Man Utd was a different beast when Alan Smith joined, more to entice a player who would otherwise turn the other cheek


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm not saying anything would be impossible. Just that it would be incredibly unlikely. *Besides, Man Utd was a different beast when Alan Smith joined*, more to entice a player who would otherwise turn the other cheek
		
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Touché


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 25, 2022)

Looks like Bale is off to the MLS.
Can’t fault him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looks like Bale is off to the MLS.
Can’t fault him.
		
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It makes sense. A nice lifestyle in LA, game played at a much easier pace. He could be a king over there still.


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## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2022)

Skytot said:



			Looks like City are signing Philips for £45m. Decent price for a 26 yr old international. Don’t think he will be a starter for city but he will relieve the burden on Rodri
		
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The next Jack Rodwell!   I didn't realise he was 26 actually, I thought he was more like 23. Can't see him playing more than 50% of games, but then, in England terms sitting on the bench at City will earn him more call-ups than actually playing in a relegation battle anyway.


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## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It makes sense. A nice lifestyle in LA, game played at a much easier pace. He could be a king over there still.
		
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Are there any good golf courses in LA?   Really he only wants to stay fit until the world cup with Wales. Suspect he'll retire not long after and take up golf full time.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The next Jack Rodwell!   I didn't realise he was 26 actually, I thought he was more like 23. Can't see him playing more than 50% of games, but then, in England terms sitting on the bench at City will earn him more call-ups than actually playing in a relegation battle anyway.
		
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He will fit in lovely I think. Being English helping with quotas etc in Europe. Transfer window is ticking over lovely for City.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He will fit in lovely I think. Being English helping with quotas etc in Europe. Transfer window is ticking over lovely for City.
		
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Easily the best window of any team so far.....

Haaland
Alvarez (finally added after loan)
Phillips

Some crazy talented additions considering you're already head and shoulders above the rest of the league (bar Liverpool)

Honestly if you dont win the Champions League in the next 2 years it'll be quite laughable.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Easily the best window of any team so far.....

Haaland
Alvarez (finally added after loan)
Phillips

Some crazy talented additions considering you're already head and shoulders above the rest of the league (bar Liverpool)

Honestly if you dont win the Champions League in the next 2 years it'll be quite laughable.
		
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I think it’s being done well financially. City are after the left back at Brighton then that’s it. I think there’s still a few to go out. The academy is bringing a few quid in as well. funnily enough I think City fans are chuffed with the league but the champs league continues to be the itch that cannot be scratched at the moment. Talking to a Forest fan the other day. He said “ I cannot wait to sing at the Etihad champions of Europe you’ll never sing that” 😳😂😂😂


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## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Easily the best window of any team so far.....

Haaland
Alvarez (finally added after loan)
Phillips

Some crazy talented additions considering you're already head and shoulders above the rest of the league (bar Liverpool)

Honestly if you dont win the Champions League in the next 2 years it'll be quite laughable.
		
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Slow down.. better than Perisic, Bissouma and Forster??


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## Swango1980 (Jun 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Are there any good golf courses in LA?   Really he only wants to stay fit until the world cup with Wales. *Suspect he'll retire not long after and take up golf full time*.
		
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I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if he was signed up by the LIV Tour. One of their gimmicks may be a pro-AM type scenario, but just paying high profile celebrities who are half decent at golf, huge sums of money to play. Maybe they wouldn't even need to be decent, I'm sure they would happily pay Donald Trump millions to play. Like him or hate him, it would get publicity.


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## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if he was signed up by the LIV Tour. One of their gimmicks may be a pro-AM type scenario, but just paying high profile celebrities who are half decent at golf, huge sums of money to play. Maybe they wouldn't even need to be decent, I'm sure they would happily pay Donald Trump millions to play. Like him or hate him, it would get publicity.
		
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Haha, it's funny because it's true. I could totally see them having at least a few pro-am type events with high profile celebrity golfers. And as he'll be playing the world cup in Qatar he can hardly baulk at the Saudis can he?


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Slow down.. better than Perisic, Bissouma and Forster??
		
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Like 10x better yeah....

Ones old, ones got legal issues and the third is a backup


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think it’s being done well financially. City are after the left back at Brighton then that’s it. I think there’s still a few to go out. The academy is bringing a few quid in as well. funnily enough I think City fans are chuffed with the league but the champs league continues to be the itch that cannot be scratched at the moment. Talking to a Forest fan the other day. He said “ I cannot wait to sing at the Etihad champions of Europe you’ll never sing that” 😳😂😂😂
		
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Certainly better business than dropping 100m on one player - I think they've learned that lesson this year!

You do great business, much like Chelsea - selling players on when the time is right is absolutely key to financial stability!

You can continue being chuffed with the league, but the outside footballing world are laughing a bit..... Truly great teams win it all. I dont believe City can ever claim to be "the best team in the world" when they cant even win in Europe. 

P.S - I sang it loud and proud when I came to the Etihad


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## fundy (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



*Certainly better business than dropping 100m on one player - I think they've learned that lesson this year!*

You do great business, much like Chelsea - selling players on when the time is right is absolutely key to financial stability!

You can continue being chuffed with the league, but the outside footballing world are laughing a bit..... Truly great teams win it all. I dont believe City can ever claim to be "the best team in the world" when they cant even win in Europe.

P.S - I sang it loud and proud when I came to the Etihad 

Click to expand...

Only because Haaland had a release clause lol, theyd have paid over 100m without batting an eyelid lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Certainly better business than dropping 100m on one player - I think they've learned that lesson this year!

You do great business, much like Chelsea - selling players on when the time is right is absolutely key to financial stability!

You can continue being chuffed with the league, but the outside footballing world are laughing a bit..... Truly great teams win it all. I dont believe City can ever claim to be "the best team in the world" when they cant even win in Europe.

P.S - I sang it loud and proud when I came to the Etihad 

Click to expand...

It's an age old dsicussion, welll certainly since the CL format came about, but you can't claim to be the best in the world if you are team that wins the CL without winning your own domestic league. If you aren't the best team in your own country, how can you be the best team anywhere else? The league shows the best team, the CL shows the best cup team.

I'm with the City fans and I am pleased that they are fairly indifferent to the CL. The league is the one to win every time. Winning the CL completes the set but that is all.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 27, 2022)

fundy said:



			Only because Haaland had a release clause lol, theyd have paid over 100m without batting an eyelid lol
		
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Like they didn’t when Kanes price went up. 👍
The days of City being held to ransom are fortunately long gone. That mantra may now be Utd and Newcastle’s situation 👍


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

fundy said:



			Only because Haaland had a release clause lol, theyd have paid over 100m without batting an eyelid lol
		
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They've only ever done it once though, and so far we are yet to see that pay off. Theyre so good they dont need to be bullied into over paying - unlike United for example. 

Kane didnt move last year alongside Grealish... They wouldnt pay it.. 



Lord Tyrion said:



			It's an age old dsicussion, welll certainly since the CL format came about, but you can't claim to be the best in the world if you are team that wins the CL without winning your own domestic league. If you aren't the best team in your own country, how can you be the best team anywhere else? The league shows the best team, the CL shows the best cup team.

I'm with the City fans and I am pleased that they are fairly indifferent to the CL. The league is the one to win every time. Winning the CL completes the set but that is all.
		
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But If you have established success at the domestic level over 10 years, the CL being the only trophy you need to complete the cabinet, It becomes the most important no? They only dont care because they havent won it 

If and when they do - because Im sure they will - The fans will be signing at the top of their lungs about being CL champions... 

Abramovic was never resting until Chelsea won the CL... It means a lot commercially too!


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## fundy (Jun 27, 2022)

They didnt pay it for Kane is a little misleading, theyd happily have paid £120m just not the fantasy £150m Levy wanted lol. Says more about Levy than City imho

Fully expect theyll pay it again in the future too for the right player. Its far easier when you have the pick of pretty much every player wanting to join you though


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

fundy said:



			They didnt pay it for Kane is a little misleading, theyd happily have paid £120m just not the fantasy £150m Levy wanted lol. Says more about Levy than City imho

Fully expect theyll pay it again in the future too *for the right player*. Its far easier when you have the pick of pretty much every player wanting to join you though 

Click to expand...

I think thats the key point.

100m for Mbappe is a no brainer for any club - they'd pay it.

100m for Declan Rice for example - probably too much for City to warrent spending as they already have sufficient starting depth - so they buy Phillips at 40 instead.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			They've only ever done it once though, and so far we are yet to see that pay off. Theyre so good they dont need to be bullied into over paying - unlike United for example.

Kane didnt move last year alongside Grealish... They wouldnt pay it..



But If you have established success at the domestic level over 10 years, the CL being the only trophy you need to complete the cabinet, It becomes the most important no? *They only dont care because they havent won it* 

If and when they do - because Im sure they will - The fans will be signing at the top of their lungs about being CL champions...

Abramovic was never resting until Chelsea won the CL... It means a lot commercially too!
		
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But that’s the thing about most City fans. Have seen rammel football for a couple of generations we still don’t expect any trophies never mind the champions league. With the exception of newer younger fans. The bonus for me is seeing football played a fantastic way.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			But that’s the thing about most City fans. Have seen rammel football for a couple of generations we still don’t expect any trophies never mind the champions league. With the exception of newer younger fans. The bonus for me is seeing football played a fantastic way.
		
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You dont expect trophies???? Jesus, If you dont, then who does bar United?!

Are you trying to act like you're Uniteds little brother on purpose or do you want to step out of that shadow?


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## Beezerk (Jun 27, 2022)

Working in Liverpool at the minute (right next to the training ground funnily enough) I mentioned Mane leaving to one of the lads, he said he was gutted and would rather seen Salah leave.
Was a bit shocked as I though he was the main man 😳


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## Tashyboy (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You dont expect trophies???? Jesus, If you dont, then who does bar United?!

Are you trying to act like you're Uniteds little brother on purpose or do you want to step out of that shadow? 

Click to expand...

Trust me when you have had generations of watching purgatory football and your quiet neighbours are winning everything. They rammed it down your throat. They higher they climbed the louder they got. The further they have fell. If it taught you one thing it’s humility. As a City fan it’s been a process being able to compete. When we beat Utd on a level playing field. God it was good. Even now it’s not expected to beat Utd. Never mind win owt.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Trust me when you have had generations of watching purgatory football and your quiet neighbours are winning everything. They rammed it down your throat. They higher they climbed the louder they got. The further they have fell. If it taught you one thing it’s humility. As a City fan it’s been a process being able to compete. When we beat Utd on a level playing field. God it was good. Even now it’s not expected to beat Utd. Never mind win owt.
		
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Just dont get it. 

Id expect trophies coming out of my ears and anything but is failure. 

You've spent BILLIONS  You aint little ol Man City anymore...


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## Foxholer (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You dont expect trophies???? Jesus, If you dont, then who does bar United?!

Are you trying to act like you're Uniteds little brother on purpose or do you want to step out of that shadow? 

Click to expand...

I was working in Warrington the year (or maybe the year after) City got bought. The enthusiasm from the locals was incredible. Mainly about how the would have revenge on their neighbours!


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I was working in Warrington the year (or maybe the year after) City got bought. The enthusiasm from the locals was incredible. Mainly about how the would have revenge on their neighbours!
		
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Certainly having their fun now! United are becoming quite laughable in the operational side of things.

Window has been open for weeks and they're yet to do business. Prices will certainly be rising as the window comes towards closing too!


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## Foxholer (Jun 27, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's an age old dsicussion, welll certainly since the CL format came about, but you can't claim to be the best in the world if you are team that wins the CL without winning your own domestic league. If you aren't the best team in your own country, how can you be the best team anywhere else? The league shows the best team, the CL shows the best cup team.

I'm with the City fans and I am pleased that they are fairly indifferent to the CL. The league is the one to win every time. Winning the CL completes the set but that is all.
		
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I'm inclined to agree, but CL certainly has 'the glory' just as FA Cup does in England.
A similar query came up when discussing Hammers european run. While the run was great, the consequence was issues in the Prem League. For an 'itty bitty' club Prem League points are gold (I think each win was worth 3M gain). I think we were fortunate to sneak into Europe again, albeit 'lower' than last year. I think I posted that it was a tough decision, worthwhile once, but concentration on PL would be my option next year.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I'm inclined to agree, but CL certainly has 'the glory' just as FA Cup does in England.
A similar query came up when discussing Hammers european run. While the run was great, the consequence was issues in the Prem League. For an 'itty bitty' club Prem League points are gold (I think each win was worth 3M gain). I think we were fortunate to sneak into Europe again, albeit 'lower' than last year. I think I posted that it was a tough decision, worthwhile once, but concentration on PL would be my option next year.
		
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Why though? Money in the clubs coffers doesnt effect the average fan?

You dont get a victory parade for finishing 7th. You do if you lift the Europa League.....

Youre not going down, you might as well go all out for the cup competition while youre in it? 

In 40 years people wont remember the West Ham who finished 7th, but they'll damn well remember the Cup win.


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## Foxholer (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Certainly having their fun now! United are becoming quite laughable in the operational side of things.

Window has been open for weeks and they're yet to do business. Prices will certainly be rising as the window comes towards closing too!
		
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Nothing to do with City though. A case (appropriately?) of 'shooting themselves in the foot' imo. Owners need to identify and sort out whatever/whoever is the problem, otherwise it will continue. Last season was a shambles - and Rangnick as 'Interim Manager' was a disaster. I have my 'wouldn't be surprised' thoughts, but no real evidence.


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## Foxholer (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Why though? Money in the clubs coffers doesnt effect the average fan?

You dont get a victory parade for finishing 7th. You do if you lift the Europa League.....

Youre not going down, you might as well go all out for the cup competition while youre in it?

In 40 years people wont remember the West Ham who finished 7th, but they'll damn well remember the Cup win.
		
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I agree there too. But while WH have/had a strong spine and spirit, they have distinct 'weaknesses' in many areas, so need investment to get any higher than they are now (and that applies to European comps too). Gobbling PL cash when they can certainly helps that goal, whereas 'playing in Europe' actively reduces such opportunities. WH simply don't have the spending power of the PL clubs above them, yet. Though that could also be an argument for grabbing European experience while they can too!


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I agree there too. But while WH have/had a strong spine and spirit, they have distinct 'weaknesses' in many areas, so need investment to get any higher than they are now (and that applies to European comps too). Gobbling PL cash when they can certainly helps that goal, whereas 'playing in Europe' actively reduces such opportunities. WH simply don't have the spending power of the PL clubs above them, yet. Though that could also be an argument for grabbing European experience while they can too!
		
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I dont think you'll ever get their spending power without insanely wealthy owners to be honest. 

I think most Hammer fans I heard on Talksport post January window were frustrated at the lack of investment. Had you have spent a bit - you might have had success!!


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## Foxholer (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Why though? Money in the clubs coffers doesnt effect the average fan?
...
		
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Agreed. But 'the average fan' is pretty short-sighted - maybe apart from 'traditional rivalries' that doesn't seem to be a problem for Hammers currently.
But I'm confident that Moyes could squeeze some of the extra cash for the obvious deficiencies. The fragility post European run provided enough evidence - at least to me.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 27, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Working in Liverpool at the minute (right next to the training ground funnily enough) I mentioned Mane leaving to one of the lads, he said he was gutted and would rather seen Salah leave.
Was a bit shocked as I though he was the main man 😳
		
Click to expand...

I agree with him.


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## Foxholer (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I dont think you'll ever get their spending power without insanely wealthy owners to be honest.

I think most Hammer fans I heard on Talksport post January window were frustrated at the lack of investment. Had you have spent a bit - you might have had success!!
		
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I agree, but I don't begrudge owners getting some return for their (earlier) investment as opposed to simply bunging money in constantly as the likes of City can do. And 'might have' is the key phrase. 
Most fans simply identify a current weakness and demand owners spend X million on Y player to fix it - and do the same very soon after! They (those that have them) would be a little more concerned if the response was 'Happy to do that as long as we can put the price of your season ticket up £100 to pay for it.'! That'd buy a £5M player, but would not, in itself, cover the additional wages!


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## Beezerk (Jun 27, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree with him.
		
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How come?
The lad said Salah doesn't want to be there and has also asked for an insane pay rise.


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## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			How come?
The lad said Salah doesn't want to be there and has also asked for an insane pay rise.
		
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Salah is the better goalscorer, but once the goals started coming he gave up passing altogether. So selfish. Mane is the better team player in my opinion. But goals get the headlines.


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## fundy (Jun 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Salah is the better goalscorer, but once the goals started coming he gave up passing altogether. So selfish. Mane is the better team player in my opinion. But goals get the headlines.
		
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yet Salah had 13 assists to Manes 2 last season................


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## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2022)

fundy said:



			yet Salah had 13 assists to Manes 2 last season................
		
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All mishit shots and rebounds.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Certainly having their fun now! United are becoming quite laughable in the operational side of things.

Window has been open for weeks and they're yet to do business. Prices will certainly be rising as the window comes towards closing too!
		
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I have a thought that things could get very bleak for Utd should they go ahead with the £1 billion development at OT. ? Even less invested in the team whilst the ground is rebuilt. Renegotiate loans etc etc. 🤔


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## Bdill93 (Jun 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I have a thought that things could get very bleak for Utd should they go ahead with the £1 billion development at OT. ? Even less invested in the team whilst the ground is rebuilt. Renegotiate loans etc etc. 🤔
		
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Its needed work though! 

They dont even have a screen inside the stadium - about time they joined 2022


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 27, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			How come?
The lad said Salah doesn't want to be there and has also asked for an insane pay rise.
		
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It’s just a personal preference.
Not that much in it.
I have watched when we’re pressing and Mo could not tackle a wet paper bag , Mane is the polar opposite.
They both miss sitters then score worldies but I just rate Mane higher.
We don’t know what goes on and all clubs have rumour’s


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## Slime (Jun 27, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Nothing to do with City though. A case (appropriately?) of 'shooting themselves in the foot' imo. *Owners need to identify and sort out whatever/whoever is the problem*, otherwise it will continue. Last season was a shambles - and Rangnick as 'Interim Manager' was a disaster. I have my 'wouldn't be surprised' thoughts, but no real evidence.
		
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At United they'll never sort out the problem ............................................ because *they are* the problem!


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## Foxholer (Jun 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			At United they'll never sort out the problem ............................................ because *they are* the problem!
		
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The ones I've seen stated don't seem to be insurmountable. But I'll wait and see how ten Hag performs/acts.
I don't believe the real problem is their owners - who are, after all, allowed to take some of the nearly 900M that was paid for ManU back in 2005. It has always been the way they've managed all 'their' investments, so should come as no shock and is just over 1% of the purchase price It's merely the fact that the club lost money last year - not helped by their pitiful on-field performance!
As I posted earlier, they need to determine what's causing the pitiful on-field performance and sort that out - for he benefit of both themselves and the fans!


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## Skytot (Jun 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The next Jack Rodwell!   I didn't realise he was 26 actually, I thought he was more like 23. Can't see him playing more than 50% of games, but then, in England terms sitting on the bench at City will earn him more call-ups than actually playing in a relegation battle anyway.
		
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City will probably play between 50 to 60 games next season. Clubs are allowed 5 subs next season also . He will get plenty of game time


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## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2022)

Anthony Martial turns up at old Trafford with a rucksack on his back. Security guard says “what’s in there”. Martial being a honest guy says, ” drugs a gun and fake tickets”. Security guard says “ thank god, I thought it was your boots”.

Joking aside, what’s the thoughts on the Newcastle/ Saudi Arabia third kit.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Joking aside, what’s the thoughts on the Newcastle/ Saudi Arabia third kit.
		
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Purely coincidental 🙄.

I think it is their first PR error. Very clumsy although it will shortly be forgotten. After all, 3rd kit? Only used for the Carabou cup or similar aren't they?


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## Slime (Jun 28, 2022)

At last?


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## Bdill93 (Jun 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Purely coincidental 🙄.

I think it is their first PR error. Very clumsy although it will shortly be forgotten. After all, 3rd kit? Only used for the Carabou cup or similar aren't they?
		
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Its so similar it hurts  

Theyll be in green and white stripes next year!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Its so similar it hurts 

Theyll be in green and white stripes next year!
		
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If they spend big and do well that will test the fans 

On other Toon matters, they have signed Botman from Lille. Looks a good signing and they now have a very decent back 5, Pope, Trippier, Targett, Burn, Botman. All done with minimal fuss and without being taken to the cleaners. Good summer so far for them.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If they spend big and do well that will test the fans 

On other Toon matters, they have signed Botman from Lille. Looks a good signing and they now have a very decent back 5, Pope, Tripper, Targett, Burn, Botman. All done with minimal fuss and without being taken to the cleaners. Good summer so far for them.
		
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Pope is a very good signing indeed. 👍


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## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2022)

What's the process for kit designs anyway? I always assumed the manufacturers draw up some designs and someone from the club just picks the ones they like. Do we think the Saudi owners actually requested a white & green kit?? I'm not sure what to believe really. Maybe Castore produced it as a design knowing it would probably go down well with the owners? Would be interesting to get the inside story on it really. 

As LT says, they will rarely wear it you'd have thought. Depending on what colour the away kit is.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			What's the process for kit designs anyway? I always assumed the manufacturers draw up some designs and someone from the club just picks the ones they like. Do we think the Saudi owners actually requested a white & green kit?? I'm not sure what to believe really. *Maybe Castore produced it as a design knowing it would probably go down well with the owners?* Would be interesting to get the inside story on it really.

As LT says, they will rarely wear it you'd have thought. Depending on what colour the away kit is.
		
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That is the muttering up here but no confirmation. The second kit is leaked as being a darkish blue so no clash at all. Is a leak ever wrong when it comes to kits? They seem remarkably spot on.

Incidentally, Castore are well worth a google to see their back story. Two brothers who tinkered on the edge of pro sport and decided to go into sports wear. They currently make kits for Newcastle, England cricket and Matt Fitzpatrick. Quite a run they are on, when most of us have probably not heard of them until very recently.


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## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is the muttering up here but no confirmation. The second kit is leaked as being a darkish blue so no clash at all. Is a leak ever wrong when it comes to kits? They seem remarkably spot on.

Incidentally, Castore are well worth a google to see their back story. Two brothers who tinkered on the edge of pro sport and decided to go into sports wear. They currently make kits for Newcastle, England cricket and Matt Fitzpatrick. Quite a run they are on, when most of us have probably not heard of them until very recently.
		
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I have read about them actually. Because I bought their 'Carlos jacket' to be my golf waterproof, but I love the material so much I wear it for everything now.  They are similar to Under Armour but more recent really - as you say, a couple of sportsmen who weren't happy with the products on the market and looked into new materials to use and so on. I like the look of their golf stuff but I've not found it cheap enough anywhere to buy yet - I am never spending £60 on polos and £100 on trousers, that's for sure. The jacket was £82 but it is honestly nicer and lighter than any sporty rain jacket I've ever seen, so I think it was worth it. I'm on their mailing list in case they have a sale. 

They only started sponsoring Fitzpatrick a few months back I think, imagine the high fives in their office when he won the USO. (They made Wolves kit last season too, assuming they still do. Oh, and Andy Murray too.)


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## Cherry13 (Jun 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If they spend big and do well that will test the fans 

On other Toon matters, they have signed Botman from Lille. Looks a good signing and they now have a very decent back 5, Pope, Trippier, Targett, Burn, Botman. All done with minimal fuss and without being taken to the cleaners. Good summer so far for them.
		
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Compare that to the back 5 from the first game last season... Woodman, Murphy, Krafth, Fernandez, Clark, Ritchie.  Amazing what can be done with 70m and a bit of ambition. 

The green and white shirt is aimed pre-dominantly at the saudi market I would assume, although not sure Fun88 will go down well on the front of it.  

Hopefully get a DM and Striker/winger in and that should see us nice for the season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I have read about them actually. Because I bought their 'Carlos jacket' to be my golf waterproof, but I love the material so much I wear it for everything now.  They are similar to Under Armour but more recent really - as you say, a couple of sportsmen who weren't happy with the products on the market and looked into new materials to use and so on. I like the look of their golf stuff but I've not found it cheap enough anywhere to buy yet - I am never spending £60 on polos and £100 on trousers, that's for sure. The jacket was £82 but it is honestly nicer and lighter than any sporty rain jacket I've ever seen, so I think it was worth it. I'm on their mailing list in case they have a sale. 

They only started sponsoring Fitzpatrick a few months back I think, imagine the high fives in their office when he won the USO. (They made Wolves kit last season too, assuming they still do. Oh, and Andy Murray too.)
		
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They have Murray on the board, he may hold a small share in the company as well. That is them covering tennis, golf, football and cricket as well as general gym and running wear. Smart cookies. They are not looking to be cheap so I'm with you on the sale front


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			Compare that to the back 5 from the first game last season... Woodman, Murphy, Krafth, Fernandez, Clark, Ritchie.  Amazing what can be done with 70m and a bit of ambition.

The green and white shirt is aimed pre-dominantly at the saudi market I would assume, although *not sure Fun88 will go down well on the front of it.*

Hopefully get a DM and Striker/winger in and that should see us nice for the season.
		
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70m for a back 5. Not bad. Nearly buys you a centre half at some clubs 

Stuck with it for 1 more year apparently. I'm expecting to see LIV Golf on there for next season. (I'm not trying to cross over threads, that is the likely sponsor for those not aware)

Striker is the big one isn't it? Wilson is made of glass and you need someone else for when he is injured.


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## Cherry13 (Jun 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			70m for a back 5. Not bad. Nearly buys you a centre half at some clubs 

Stuck with it for 1 more year apparently. I'm expecting to see LIV Golf on there for next season. (I'm not trying to cross over threads, that is the likely sponsor for those not aware)

Striker is the big one isn't it? Wilson is made of glass and you need someone else for when he is injured.
		
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Saudi Golf was the long time rumour, but then the CEO got on our board, so would probably look a bit suspicious with the new rules around owner/sponsors (suspect LIV will be the same).  I think we'll see similar deals to the likes of Noon.  Middle east shopping site.  

Yeh, Striker is definitely the more pressing need.  DM would be my personal preference, but more just to get Shelvey out the team.  

Think the profile of the striker they'll look at is that Striker / Winger type (Martial, etc)  thats what meant by that.  Not that we need a Winger per-se.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 29, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			Saudi Golf was the long time rumour, but then the CEO got on our board, so would probably look a bit suspicious with the new rules around owner/sponsors (suspect LIV will be the same).  I think we'll see similar deals to the likes of Noon.  Middle east shopping site. 

Yeh, Striker is definitely the more pressing need.  DM would be my personal preference, but more just to get Shelvey out the team. 

Think the profile of the striker they'll look at is that Striker / Winger type (Martial, etc)  thats what meant by that.  Not that we need a Winger per-se.
		
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Calling it now - Target gets replaced after a year!

Still good business though


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## Cherry13 (Jun 29, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Calling it now - Target gets replaced after a year!

Still good business though
		
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Yep, wouldn’t disagree with that.  I think it was a signing based on practicality as much as anything.  Doesn’t really fit the historic full back profile for Howe, but if he wants to give ASM a good run this season I can understand the logic of having someone more dependable behind him.  I think a lot will also depend on Jamal Lewis and if he is capable of kicking on as well this season and showing that he might be a long term viable option.


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## Bdill93 (Jun 29, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			Yep, wouldn’t disagree with that.  I think it was a signing based on practicality as much as anything.  Doesn’t really fit the historic full back profile for Howe, but if he wants to give ASM a good run this season I can understand the logic of having someone more dependable behind him.  I think a lot will also depend on Jamal Lewis and if he is capable of kicking on as well this season and showing that he might be a long term viable option.
		
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Hes a good player though, always served us well at the Villa and can play some great crosses in etc - just really lacks the pace needed for the prem!


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## Billysboots (Jun 30, 2022)

Richarlison to Spurs is a strange one. Can’t see Kane or Son sitting out many games so where does he fit in?


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## Bdill93 (Jun 30, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Richarlison to Spurs is a strange one. Can’t see Kane or Son sitting out many games so where does he fit in?
		
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When Kane gets injured?

But seriously.. I agree, weird move for him. Better club but way less playing time you'd assume - and no Trophies guaranteed! (Unlike at say City)


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 30, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Richarlison to Spurs is a strange one. Can’t see Kane or Son sitting out many games *so where does he fit in?*

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He helps to balance our books


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Richarlison to Spurs is a strange one. Can’t see Kane or Son sitting out many games so where does he fit in?
		
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It does look like I'm going to have to get used to the idea.   It's a lot of money for a back-up player, but I suppose I should be glad we're spending money, and will have an option as back-up for Kane. Even if that back-up option is a prick.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 30, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Richarlison to Spurs is a strange one. Can’t see Kane or Son sitting out many games so where does he fit in?
		
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Spurs 100% need a backup for Kane
Wether Richarlison is the answer,who knows.
To be honest Kane is streets ahead of most strikers in the premiership.
He will obviously play cup matches to give Harry a rest.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It does look like I'm going to have to get used to the idea.   It's a lot of money for a back-up player, but I suppose I should be glad we're spending money, and will have an option as back-up for Kane. Even if that back-up option is a prick.
		
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Swearing is not allowed


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## Billysboots (Jun 30, 2022)

I just think it shows a lack of ambition by the player himself. From a playing perspective why would anyone want to go from playing every week to being a bit part player? That sort of thing has the potential to cause all sorts of issues - dressing room unrest being just one.


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## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I just think it shows a lack of ambition by the player himself. From a playing perspective why would anyone want to go from playing every week to being a bit part player? That sort of thing has the potential to cause all sorts of issues - dressing room unrest being just one.
		
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One thing about professional footballers is they mostly have massive egos. I expect that he is coming to Spurs believing he will establish himself as a first choice player and playing Champion's League football. I'm sure he'll be looking at Kulusevski's spot, but personally I think Kulu has been absolutely top class since he came in, so I do hope he doesn't lose his place.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2022)




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## Bdill93 (Jul 1, 2022)

Seriously, players are coming back from summer holidays now for pre-season and United still havent made a signing


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Seriously, players are coming back from summer holidays now for pre-season and United still havent made a signing 

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Is it a lack of trying ?
Or are they finding top players don’t want to go there. .?
Does seem very strange when they need a few top players.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is it a lack of trying ?
Or are they finding top players don’t want to go there. .?
Does seem very strange when they need a few top players.
		
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It could be simply that Manchester United are pretty inefficient when it comes to making signings. They certainly haven't proved otherwise.

However, it could also be due to the fact United have just appointed a new manager. I'm sure there was dialogue as soon as they agreed he would come to Man United, but ten Hag will have also needed to see the players that United currently have. First hand. So, although he may have had an idea of the type of players he would like, he only held his first training session earlier this week. I think it would have been way too hasty for him to agree a load of signings he wants a month or so ago, and then come into training and realise that some of current players offer him what he wants, whilst some others are less likely to be players that will work well with him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is it a lack of trying ?
Or are they finding top players don’t want to go there. .?
Does seem very strange when they need a few top players.
		
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This surely has to be part of it. Utd are going for top level players still but have little to offer them in comparison to the competition other than big wages. Brutal but the truth at this moment. The big players will be waiting for other clubs to come in for them and only then, if they don't, will they start to move to Utd. That means late signings most likely, never ideal.


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## Jimaroid (Jul 1, 2022)

I've got to admit to mixed feelings about Richarlison moving on now it's happening. I know we need the cash but the club should never have gotten into that position in the first place. Richi didn't get great results for long periods and his antics made me seeth and laugh in equal measure but we/I could never criticise him for lack of effort or passion. I wanted him gone at the start of this year but he'd won me around again by the end of the season. 

Like many of my football heroes he's flawed but shows great spirit, I've just got to accept we needed him gone while he still had some value.

Absolutely cannot wait to see him and Kane on the pitch together so we get to call them both out on their antics and shousery. 

Goodbye you crazy pigeon... 🐦 💙



Jimaroid said:



View attachment 42441

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## Swango1980 (Jul 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This surely has to be part of it. Utd are going for top level players still but have little to offer them in comparison to the competition other than big wages. Brutal but the truth at this moment. The big players will be waiting for other clubs to come in for them and only then, if they don't, will they start to move to Utd. That means late signings most likely, never ideal.
		
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I'm not overly convinced by that argument. What big players are we talking about? Have United approached them, and are they stalling because the player is waiting for Man City or Liverpool to pick up the phone? Teams that have pretty settled squads, and even if they were interested in a player in a particular position, it may be as part of a squad rotation role rather than an almost guaranteed starter.

The likes of Klopp and Guardiola have has all season  to assess their players, and will have had a plan many many months ago as to how they'd like to freshen things up. This has allowed them to act quickly in the transfer market. United have not had that, certainly de Hag hasn't. Furthermore, Utd need more than just "freshening up" the team. As stated, they need open heart surgery. It isn't really about going out and buying the best players in the world. They need to build a functioning team first. Build the foundation, before adding the flare. 

United have been rubbish for years, but still attracted big names / players with good reputations. Pogba, Zlatan, Matic, Lukaku, Bruno, Maguire, Cavani, Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho, etc. But, look were that has got them. On the most part, highly rated players sent out to play like headless chickens. And, even when Utd were at the top, they failed to attract everyone. The likes of Shearer, Gazza, Kroos, Ronaldinho, Bale, Hazard, Kluivert, etc. I've no idea how far negotiations went with all these players, and how much was fuelled by media. But, the point is, individual players will also have a wide range of reasons to want, or not want to go to a club. So, I certainly do not expect a guarantee that every single top player would wish to go to United, just like I wouldn't expect them to 100% want to go to City, Liverpool, Madrid, Barcelona, etc.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm not overly convinced by that argument. What big players are we talking about? Have United approached them, and are they stalling because the player is waiting for Man City or Liverpool to pick up the phone? Teams that have pretty settled squads, and even if they were interested in a player in a particular position, it may be as part of a squad rotation role rather than an almost guaranteed starter.

The likes of Klopp and Guardiola have has all season  to assess their players, and will have had a plan many many months ago as to how they'd like to freshen things up. This has allowed them to act quickly in the transfer market. United have not had that, certainly de Hag hasn't. Furthermore, Utd need more than just "freshening up" the team. As stated, they need open heart surgery. It isn't really about going out and buying the best players in the world. They need to build a functioning team first. Build the foundation, before adding the flare.

United have been rubbish for years, but still attracted big names / players with good reputations. Pogba, Zlatan, Matic, Lukaku, Bruno, Maguire, Cavani, Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho, etc. But, look were that has got them. On the most part, highly rated players sent out to play like headless chickens. And, even when Utd were at the top, they failed to attract everyone. The likes of Shearer, Gazza, Kroos, Ronaldinho, Bale, Hazard, Kluivert, etc. I've no idea how far negotiations went with all these players, and how much was fuelled by media. But, the point is, individual players will also have a wide range of reasons to want, or not want to go to a club. So, I certainly do not expect a guarantee that every single top player would wish to go to United, just like I wouldn't expect them to 100% want to go to City, Liverpool, Madrid, Barcelona, etc.
		
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You can't tell me that Ten Haag was sat around at Ajax not looking at the Utd team, deficiencies, who they need etc. He would have had his list of required players before signing his contract, knowing that he could not get them all of course. Utd would have known who to go for in the same way that City, Chelsea, Liverpool etc would have. Blimey, even Spurs have done advanced buying and they normally go last minute with Levy.

The obvious big name, if you want a name, is the Dutch lad at Barcelona, de Jong. Could he be any more unenthusiastic? The rest could well be paper talk but it seems pretty clear he is your key target.

Lack of CL is key to this. Big players practically want a guarantee of it and Utd can offer no such thing any more.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You can't tell me that Ten Haag was sat around at Ajax not looking at the Utd team, deficiencies, who they need etc. He would have had his list of required players before signing his contract, knowing that he could not get them all of course. Utd would have known who to go for in the same way that City, Chelsea, Liverpool etc would have. Blimey, even Spurs have done advanced buying and they normally go last minute with Levy.

The obvious big name, if you want a name, is the Dutch lad at Barcelona, de Jong. Could he be any more unenthusiastic? The rest could well be paper talk but it seems pretty clear he is your key target.

Lack of CL is key to this. Big players practically want a guarantee of it and Utd can offer no such thing any more.
		
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I won't tell you that. I've no doubt ten Hag was looking ahead as best he can. Playing fantasy football manager just like the rest of us. It is no doubt why he has at least been able to identify an early target like de Jong, and therefore United have been pursuing him. Again, that doesn't mean that it automatically is a done deal. The player will have his own views on how and where he wants to live his life, and there are plenty of negotiations to be done with him and Barcelona.

What I am saying is that ten Hag wasn't going to have an absolute firm idea of who he wants to get rid off, and thus a complete list of players to replace them. It would be atrocious management if he did that before even seeing the players first hand that are still at the club. Whereas the other clubs I have mentioned have watched their players day in, day out, and know exactly where they need to freshen up the squad.

Personally, I'm feeling a lot more patient this year. I won't be crying out for all these big name signings, because that has got us nowhere in the last decade. I want to see what ten Hag does with the players he has, and I'll of course be enthusiastic about any players he does bring in. Hoping it was done because he had an absolute belief they are the type of player he needs, and not what some marketing guy higher up thought was a great idea. I'll be more interested what happens next summer (and even in the winter), once ten Hag has had a prolonged period and working with the players.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I won't tell you that. I've no doubt ten Hag was looking ahead as best he can. Playing fantasy football manager just like the rest of us. It is no doubt why he has at least been able to identify an early target like de Jong, and therefore United have been pursuing him. Again, that doesn't mean that it automatically is a done deal. The player will have his own views on how and where he wants to live his life, and there are plenty of negotiations to be done with him and Barcelona.

What I am saying is that ten Hag wasn't going to have an absolute firm idea of who he wants to get rid off, and thus a complete list of players to replace them. It would be atrocious management if he did that before even seeing the players first hand that are still at the club. Whereas the other clubs I have mentioned have watched their players day in, day out, and know exactly where they need to freshen up the squad.

Personally, I'm feeling a lot more patient this year. I won't be crying out for all these big name signings, because that has got us nowhere in the last decade. I want to see what ten Hag does with the players he has, and I'll of course be enthusiastic about any players he does bring in. Hoping it was done because he had an absolute belief they are the type of player he needs, and not what some marketing guy higher up thought was a great idea. I'll be more interested what happens next summer (and even in the winter), once ten Hag has had a prolonged period and working with the players.
		
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Yes I think your right.
But a good CM is a start of a spine of a team .
Keepers good.
CBS just lack confidence in what is in front of them imo, a good CM will settle that.
You need a good striker as well.
TH will need to earn his money.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 1, 2022)

Made me chuckle


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## Billysboots (Jul 1, 2022)

I am holding on to the notion that one or two players will be like new signings anyway under the new manager. Van de Beek is a classic case in point. He struck me from day one as a far better pkayer than we have seen at United so far, and I remain hopeful that the arrival of the new manager will see him with a new lease of life. Same goes for Sancho.

Some of the serious deadwood and one or two (alleged) malcontents have at last been moved on. Add a sprinkling of new signings, if they can get some of the names mentioned across the line, and I’m hopeful that, at last, United can start on an upward trajectory.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 1, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I am holding on to the notion that one or two players will be like new signings anyway under the new manager. Van de Beek is a classic case in point. He struck me from day one as a far better pkayer than we have seen at United so far, and I remain hopeful that the arrival of the new manager will see him with a new lease of life. Same goes for Sancho.

Some of the serious deadwood and one or two (alleged) malcontents have at last been moved on. Add a sprinkling of new signings, if they can get some of the names mentioned across the line, and I’m hopeful that, at last, United can start on an upward trajectory.
		
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I promise you VDB will never be good enough.
He’s seriously slow and unfit,or he was last year.


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## Billysboots (Jul 1, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I promise you VDB will never be good enough.
He’s seriously slow and unfit,or he was last year.
		
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Whilst you may be right, I’ll reserve judgment until he’s at least been given a chance.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Whilst you may be right, I’ll reserve judgment until he’s at least been given a chance.
		
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When he was actually fit enough to play for Everton last year I thought he looked a class act. Never gave the ball away, always looking for the ball, always available. Had he stayed fit and been on the pitch more I think we would have been safer much earlier.

I'd forgotten about him for you. He is effectively a new signing and could be a very good one. If his old manager can't get a tune out of him then I would be very surprised. I'd happily have him back, fit obviously 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542885960223956992
not bad 😁


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## greenone (Jul 1, 2022)

Spuds sign richarlison for 60 million. Liverpool sign Salah for 3 years. Who's got the better deal?


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## Swango1980 (Jul 1, 2022)

greenone said:



			Spuds sign richarlison for 60 million. Liverpool sign Salah for 3 years. Who's got the better deal? 

Click to expand...

Everton


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## greenone (Jul 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Everton
		
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Doubtful, you seen the money theyve wasted the last few years.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 1, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542885347851476993
Bit cringe this 😬


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## BrianM (Jul 1, 2022)

Just seen the new champions league format for the 24/25 season onwards, what an absolute crock of s**t.
When is enough, enough 🤬


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## Swango1980 (Jul 1, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542885347851476993
Bit cringe this 😬
		
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That is awful. I wonder how much money it took to keep him?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That is awful. I wonder how much money it took to keep him?
		
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Loves a pic with his shirt off 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2022)

greenone said:



			Spuds sign richarlison for 60 million. Liverpool sign Salah for 3 years. Who's got the better deal? 

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You don't know the Salah package yet. Wages, signing fee, loyalty bonus, signing on a Friday...............

There is an obvious answer but as an existing player it doesn't quite work out like that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That is awful. I wonder how much money it took to keep him?
		
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prob around £300-350k I suspect and worth every penny and prob still within the wage budget 
Best signing of the summer


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## Swango1980 (Jul 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			prob around £300-350k I suspect and worth every penny and prob still within the wage budget 
Best signing of the summer
		
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My money is on Haaland being best signing of the summer so far. By a long way.


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## Slime (Jul 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Seriously, players are coming back from summer holidays now for pre-season and United still havent made a signing 

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Wrong!!
Apparently Tyrell Malacia is now a done deal.
I think £13M is the figure being quoted.
Hopefully this is just the start, a bit like breaking the seal!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			My money is on Haaland being best signing of the summer so far. By a long way.
		
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will be interesting to see if he can stay fit for more than half a season - the man is a beast and should score for fun in the Prem


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2022)

Slime said:



			Wrong!!
Apparently Tyrell Malacia is now a done deal.
I think £13M is the figure being quoted.
Hopefully this is just the start, a bit like breaking the seal!
		
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Shaw on the way out then ?


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## Slime (Jul 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Shaw on the way out then ?
		
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No, hopefully Telles.


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## Billysboots (Jul 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			My money is on Haaland being best signing of the summer so far. By a long way.
		
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Other unnamed Premier League sides allegedly looked at him. I wonder why none made a move given the very favourable release clause. There was apparent concern regarding his regular soft tissue injuries, and I have heard a number of pundits question whether he will thrive in a league where the space won’t be as available to him as it was in Germany.

He may well prove to be a fabulous signing. But I’m not so sure it’s quite that clear cut that he will be a sure fire success.


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## Slime (Jul 1, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Other unnamed Premier League sides allegedly looked at him. I wonder why none made a move given the very favourable release clause. There was apparent concern regarding his regular soft tissue injuries, and I have heard a number of pundits question whether he will thrive in a league where the space won’t be as available to him as it was in Germany.

*He may well prove to be a fabulous signing. But I’m not so sure it’s quite that clear cut that he will be a sure fire success.*

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Tyrell Malacia, on the other hand.


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## Billysboots (Jul 1, 2022)

Slime said:



			Tyrell Malacia, on the other hand. 

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I know very little about him. But as we’re trying to sign the entire Dutch national side he seems to fit the profile!


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## Slime (Jul 1, 2022)

In other news, England are just about to become EURO U19s champions.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 1, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Other unnamed Premier League sides allegedly looked at him. I wonder why none made a move given the very favourable release clause. There was apparent concern regarding his regular soft tissue injuries, and I have heard a number of pundits question whether he will thrive in a league where the space won’t be as available to him as it was in Germany.

He may well prove to be a fabulous signing. But I’m not so sure it’s quite that clear cut that he will be a sure fire success.
		
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I'm hoping, at best, he is another Lukaku. But I can imagine he'll thrive in a team as good as City, if he stays fit. No idea about his injury record. 

If I had to take a gamble on one of 2 players, him or Kane, I'd always choose Kane. But, at least we'll see how Haaland gets on in the PL this year.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			My money is on Haaland being best signing of the summer so far. By a long way.
		
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Incorrect. Brennan Johnson penning a new 4 year contract at Forest is the signing of the summer


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## Tashyboy (Jul 1, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Other unnamed Premier League sides allegedly looked at him. I wonder why none made a move given the very favourable release clause. There was apparent concern regarding his regular soft tissue injuries, and I have heard a number of pundits question whether he will thrive in a league where the space won’t be as available to him as it was in Germany.

He may well prove to be a fabulous signing. But I’m not so sure it’s quite that clear cut that he will be a sure fire success.
		
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My money is on Alvarez being a bargain of a signing. 👍 on another note, City are quietly getting rid of a fair few EDS squad players. Personally if I was Fulham,Forest etc I would seriously be taking a punt on Liam Delap.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543251944717881349
The question is what would be an acceptable offer for him and which club would give it ?

Maybe off to the MLS


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## Foxholer (Jul 2, 2022)

I'm disappointed Hammers haven't been more active in the market. While 'the solid spine' still exists, the overall quality needs improvement if any ambition above 7th is to be fulfilled. It was all too clear that (lack of) squad depth was a major factor in the below par end of season results - in spite of fabulous achievement of getting where they did.


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543251944717881349
The question is what would be an acceptable offer for him and which club would give it ?

*Maybe off to the MLS*

Click to expand...

..................... which totally negates the above Twitter thing you posted!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			..................... which totally negates the above Twitter thing you posted!
		
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Just throwing it out there 🤷‍♂️ not sure how many CL clubs will look to spend £30mil etc and £500k a week on a 37 year old


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2022)

For what it's worth, I think/hope he'll stay.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 2, 2022)

Guys, I don’t want to get carried away, but I’m pretty certain Forest are winning the league, given the quality of our signings thus far


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## Cherry13 (Jul 2, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Guys, I don’t want to get carried away, but I’m pretty certain Forest are winning the league, given the quality of our signings thus far
		
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I’d make this joke as a Newcastle fan, but people would take me very seriously.  

Seriously though, how many teams have had ‘good’ windows so far.  Only Man UFC (one for the FM fans) who seem to be really disappointed from what I’ve seen.  Most teams just seem to be quietly, and early going about business.


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			I’d make this joke as a Newcastle fan, but people would take me very seriously. 

Seriously though, how many teams have had ‘good’ windows so far.  Only Man UFC (one for the FM fans) who seem to be really disappointed from what I’ve seen.  Most teams just seem to be quietly, and early going about business.
		
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As a United fan, I'm very happy with the outs but, so far, very disappointed with the ins ........................... or lack of!


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 2, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			I’d make this joke as a Newcastle fan, but people would take me very seriously. 

Seriously though, how many teams have had ‘good’ windows so far.  Only Man UFC (one for the FM fans) who seem to be really disappointed from what I’ve seen.  Most teams just seem to be quietly, and early going about business.
		
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I can assure you, no one would take you seriously 

I cannot stress how well we’ve done so far when I compare to the transfer windows we’ve had the last 10-12 years where we overpay for random Portuguese players or bring in absolute dross in areas we don’t need to target


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## Billysboots (Jul 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			For what it's worth, I think/hope he'll stay.
		
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I tend to agree, I think he’ll give it another year. _But _I really do think, if he does leave, it may help the club to stop living in the past, as it has been doing now for nearly a decade.

United have a new manager, one of the new, young breed of coaches. The players linked with the club are younger players, signings for the future. We cannot keep seeking an instant fix.

Most realistic fans would perhaps accept a period of rebuilding _if _they could see tangible progress. There has been little or none since 2013, the period since being punctuated with occasional marquee signings but football which has largely been dross, with no identity. There has been no rebuild to speak of.

Manchester United, for me at least, need to get back to being Manchester United. They are currently a million miles away.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2022)

Tarkowski is now officially a Blue. Really solid signing for us, strengthens the backline significantly.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 4, 2022)

@fundy what do you think about Jesus joining your lads? Happy with the signings so far?


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## GreiginFife (Jul 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@fundy what do you think about Jesus joining your lads? Happy with the signings so far?
		
Click to expand...

This lad will fit right in…


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## Tashyboy (Jul 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@fundy what do you think about Jesus joining your lads? Happy with the signings so far?
		
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He has to be chuffed with that. He is a quality lad. Not a Aguero but he will score some important goals. His work rate is excellent. He could well be a magnet for others to follow.
Jesus gone.
Sterling in advanced talks with Chelsea. Any signing that weakens you opponents is good for me. 😉
Bernado allegedly off to Barcelona. 
City’s made a few quid this close season and a fair few fringe players sold.
I did mention the other day about someone coming in for Delap. Apparently City have a major decision to make about him re does he go out on loan or stay as Foden did. What would you do if you was Delap, train with Haaland, KDB Etc or go on loan.


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## Orikoru (Jul 4, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He has to be chuffed with that. He is a quality lad. Not a Aguero but he will score some important goals. His work rate is excellent. He could well be a magnet for others to follow.
Jesus gone.
Sterling in advanced talks with Chelsea. Any signing that weakens you opponents is good for me. 😉
Bernado allegedly off to Barcelona.
City’s made a few quid this close season and a fair few fringe players sold.
I did mention the other day about someone coming in for Delap. Apparently City have a major decision to make about him re does he go out on loan or stay as Foden did. What would you do if you was Delap, train with Haaland, KDB Etc or go on loan.
		
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Joking aside, I think Sterling is excellent. He's scored over 20 goals in all comps three times (one of them was over 30). He makes intelligent runs into the box hence scoring those numbers without being a particularly great finisher. He's definitely better than any of Chelsea's current wingers. Not as good as Hazard was obviously, but Sterling will be as close as they've come to replacing him. 

Are you really going to let B.Silva go to Barca?? He was exceptional last season. Did he ask to leave??


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 4, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			What would you do if you was Delap, train with Haaland, KDB Etc or go on loan.
		
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It's a genuinely tough decision. Clearly he will be bursting to play but equally the chance to rub shoulder with these players may only come around once. A lot of thinking for him to do. Personally, I think I would tell him to go on loan, come back a better player and be part of the team rather than part of the squad.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Joking aside, I think Sterling is excellent. He's scored over 20 goals in all comps three times (one of them was over 30). He makes intelligent runs into the box hence scoring those numbers without being a particularly great finisher. He's definitely better than any of Chelsea's current wingers. Not as good as Hazard was obviously, but Sterling will be as close as they've come to replacing him.

Are you really going to let B.Silva go to Barca?? He was exceptional last season. Did he ask to leave??
		
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I say it very much tongue in cheek re Sterling. If he wants to go, good luck to the lad. Rw Bernardo. The noises are he has asked to leave. Be gutted if he goes as it starts leaving the squad thinner in that area. The old saying is In Pep we trust.


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## hairball_89 (Jul 4, 2022)

[QUOTE="Tashyboy, post: 2520109, member: 18842"... The old saying is In Pep we trust.[/QUOTE]

This for me is the main point. I've said exactly the same about Klopp. 

I'll be amazed if City lose Sterling, Silva and Jesus this summer. Jesus isn't a world beater by any means but there are probably 18 other teams in the league who would be over the moon with that front 3! That said, Sterling to Chelsea seems all but a done deal, and a brilliant one at that, for Chelsea, in my view. I'm really looking forward to this season, with big changes to the Liverpool front 3, City looking refresh and Chelsea starting again too.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 4, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			[QUOTE="Tashyboy, post: 2520109, member: 18842"... The old saying is In Pep we trust.
		
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This for me is the main point. I've said exactly the same about Klopp.

I'll be amazed if City lose Sterling, Silva and Jesus this summer. Jesus isn't a world beater by any means but there are probably 18 other teams in the league who would be over the moon with that front 3! That said, Sterling to Chelsea seems all but a done deal, and a brilliant one at that, for Chelsea, in my view. *I'm really looking forward to this season, with big changes to the Liverpool front 3, City looking refresh and Chelsea starting again too.[/*QUOTE]

I said this a month or so ago. A lot of clubs seem to be having good transfer windows. That said, which club is having a poor window 🤔


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 4, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I said this a month or so ago. A lot of clubs seem to be having good transfer windows. *That said, which club is having a poor window *🤔
		
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(I think we all know that one so far )


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## Swango1980 (Jul 4, 2022)

Just seen on BBC that Eriksen has agreed in princple to sign for Man Utd, subject to agreeing personal terms. It would be a signing I'd like to see. Quality and composed player in the middle of the park, who can hopefully work well with Bruno, and/or keep Bruno on his toes in keeping a starting position.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just seen on BBC that Eriksen has agreed in princple to sign for Man Utd, subject to agreeing personal terms. It would be a signing I'd like to see. Quality and composed player in the middle of the park, who can hopefully work well with Bruno, and/or keep Bruno on his toes in keeping a starting position.
		
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Strange signing and potentially is it because it’s a freebie ?

Of all the areas in the team that need improving or signings I’m not sure that an attacking mid is high up that list 

Defensive Mid , Centre back , Striker, Right back all look to be a higher priority that the left back they have bought and now Eriksen 

Very strange - has Woodward definitely left 🤷‍♂️ Or maybe they are struggling to get quality to join them


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## Swango1980 (Jul 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Strange signing and potentially is it because it’s a freebie ?

Of all the areas in the team that need improving or signings I’m not sure that an attacking mid is high up that list 

Defensive Mid , Centre back , Striker, Right back all look to be a higher priority that the left back they have bought and now Eriksen 

Very strange - has Woodward definitely left 🤷‍♂️ Or maybe they are struggling to get quality to join them
		
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Utd have one attacking centre midfielder. Bruno. Potentially DeBeek, but he has not proved himself in PL yet. Bruno was awful last season. So, he needs both support and competition in that area. 

I am positive it was not Eriksen OR a defensive midfielder. We need to bring in a lot more quality into that midfield area generally. I'm sure they are looking into other positions as well.


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## Slime (Jul 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Strange signing and potentially is it because it’s a freebie ?

Of all the areas in the team that need improving or signings I’m not sure that an attacking mid is high up that list

Defensive Mid , Centre back , Striker, Right back all look to be a higher priority that the left back they have bought and now Eriksen

*Very strange - has Woodward definitely left 🤷‍♂️ Or maybe they are struggling to get quality to join them*

Click to expand...

Or maybe he was exactly the sort of player Ten Hag is looking for, to fit into his plan for the rebuild in a style that he wants!


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## Swango1980 (Jul 5, 2022)

Slime said:



			Or maybe he was exactly the sort of player Ten Hag is looking for, to fit into his plan for the rebuild in a style that he wants!
		
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Just saw a clip from Talksport, where Danny Murphy and Simon Jordan said Eriksen would be a squad player at best for United, and would effectively not improve them because he would simply be a bench player, with Bruno ahead of him in the pecking order.

I was pretty gobsmacked, almost thinking they were both incredibly narrow minded. I admit to not being an expert on the ability of Eriksen, but have always seen he has been well regarded and played well when I have watched him. I'm sure Spurs and Brentford fans would be able to discuss his abilities better. Man City have DeBruyne, but I never hear pundits saying that Gundogan and B. Silva do not make City a better team (even if they don't play every week). City also have the likes of Mahrez and Grealish, who although play wide, would be more creative midfielders than pacey wingers.

Utd have lost the likes of Pogba, Lingard and Mata (thankfully). Yet, Murphy and Jordan feel that Utd only need one creative midfielder in their entire squad, despite Bruno's poor form last season. Unless they feel, with their great managerial brains, than De Hag should simply resort to playing ultra defensive football until Man Utd buy themselves out of trouble and buy star players in all positions. That tends to work well...


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just saw a clip from Talksport, where Danny Murphy and Simon Jordan said Eriksen would be a squad player at best for United, and would effectively not improve them because he would simply be a bench player, with Bruno ahead of him in the pecking order.

I was pretty gobsmacked, almost thinking they were both incredibly narrow minded. I admit to not being an expert on the ability of Eriksen, but have always seen he has been well regarded and played well when I have watched him. I'm sure Spurs and Brentford fans would be able to discuss his abilities better. Man City have DeBruyne, but I never hear pundits saying that Gundogan and B. Silva do not make City a better team (even if they don't play every week). City also have the likes of Mahrez and Grealish, who although play wide, would be more creative midfielders than pacey wingers.

Utd have lost the likes of Pogba, Lingard and Mata (thankfully). Yet, Murphy and Jordan feel that Utd only need one creative midfielder in their entire squad, despite Bruno's poor form last season. Unless they feel, with their great managerial brains, than De Hag should simply resort to playing ultra defensive football until Man Utd buy themselves out of trouble and buy star players in all positions. That tends to work well...
		
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Eriksen was superb for us for years of course. But I've not seen enough of him lately to know if he's still able to achieve the same levels as before his heart problem? I don't know if his general fitness is what it was. I think I heard that he's not even allowed to play in Italy because they have rules against people with heart issues playing on health & safety grounds or something. At Brentford he played deeper than he used to, more of a sitting midfielder - maybe even a Pirlo or a Scholes type of player? Perhaps long term that will be where he sits, in which case, there is room for both him and Bruno. However you obviously still need that holding midfielder. Eriksen next to a Fred or a McTominay isn't going to work at all.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 5, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544273671765868544
Who next for the revolving door at PSG 

Will Zidane take the risk


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2022)

Man Utd will be absolutely gutted they rushed into appointing that Dutch bloke now.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just saw a clip from Talksport, where Danny Murphy and Simon Jordan said Eriksen would be a squad player at best for United, and would effectively not improve them because he would simply be a bench player, with Bruno ahead of him in the pecking order.

I was pretty gobsmacked, almost thinking they were both incredibly narrow minded. I admit to not being an expert on the ability of Eriksen, but have always seen he has been well regarded and played well when I have watched him. I'm sure Spurs and Brentford fans would be able to discuss his abilities better. Man City have DeBruyne, but I never hear pundits saying that Gundogan and B. Silva do not make City a better team (even if they don't play every week). City also have the likes of Mahrez and Grealish, who although play wide, would be more creative midfielders than pacey wingers.

Utd have lost the likes of Pogba, Lingard and Mata (thankfully). Yet, Murphy and Jordan feel that Utd only need one creative midfielder in their entire squad, despite Bruno's poor form last season. Unless they feel, with their great managerial brains, than De Hag should simply resort to playing ultra defensive football until Man Utd buy themselves out of trouble and buy star players in all positions. That tends to work well...
		
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I’d have Lingard in there above all of them.
I’m worried for Utd this year 
Imo we should have gone big and got Poch
I’m very worried that this manager is not the answer the same feelings I had for RR after 2 games.
We need a massive world class manager who attracts big names.
Whilst Erickson is a good player he’s no longer world class,in fact many of our players are not,that is different to Liverpool,City and Chelsea 
Imo we are falling even further behind.


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## GB72 (Jul 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Man Utd will be absolutely gutted they rushed into appointing that Dutch bloke now. 

Click to expand...

Guessing PSG were hanging on to see if anyone would take him off thier hands, maybe even pay a fee, before sacking.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Man Utd will be absolutely gutted they *rushed* into appointing that Dutch bloke now. 

Click to expand...

Rushed? I'll assume the emoji indicates the seriousness of your comment. It took them 5 months to appoint ten Hag, after sacking their previous full time manager.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Rushed? I'll assume the emoji indicates the seriousness of your comment. It took them 5 months to appoint ten Hag, after sacking their previous full time manager.
		
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Yea, but they could have just had Ralf Ragnarok manage until the end of the season then look to appoint in the off season (though I get why they did what they did). 

I've just watched Brice Samba's farewell video and cried twice.


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## Slime (Jul 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Man Utd will be absolutely gutted they rushed into appointing that Dutch bloke now. 

Click to expand...

Why?


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## 4LEX (Jul 6, 2022)

Probably because Man Utd's entire transfer strategy involves signing players who once played under Ten Hag or in the Dutch League. Seems a one sighted and bizarre approach.

Eriksen is still a top player though and easily in the top 5 genuine ball playing midfielders in the league. A midfield with De Jong, Eriksen and Bruno will be great fun to watch. I bet Harry Maguire can't wait to hold the defence together with that infront of him


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 6, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Probably because Man Utd's entire transfer strategy involves signing players who once played under Ten Hag or in the Dutch League. Seems a one sighted and bizarre approach.

Eriksen is still a top player though and easily in the top 5 genuine ball playing midfielders in the league. A midfield with De Jong, Eriksen and Bruno will be great fun to watch. I bet Harry Maguire can't wait to hold the defence together with that infront of him 

Click to expand...

Most managers return to previous clubs/leagues for players at their new team.


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## 4LEX (Jul 6, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Most managers return to previous clubs/leagues for players at their new team.
		
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Some do, some don't. The thing is Man Utd have come out and banged on about a restructure and how they're going to sign players that fit the clubs ethos. That was designed to take the transfer power and pressure off the manager/coach. Yet only a few months later it's clear they've got no idea about transfers and have handed 100% control to Ten Hag.

It's not the actions of a well run club who have learnt their lessons from wasting over a billion and a decade of failure. It looks like more of the same buy and hope policy.


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## Golfmmad (Jul 6, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Some do, some don't. The thing is Man Utd have come out and banged on about a restructure and how they're going to sign players that fit the clubs ethos. That was designed to take the transfer power and pressure off the manager/coach. Yet only a few months later it's clear they've got no idea about transfers and have handed 100% control to Ten Hag.

It's not the actions of a well run club who have learnt their lessons from wasting over a billion and a decade of failure. It looks like more of the same buy and hope policy.
		
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Do you think that Ten Hag follows the buy and hope policy? Surely its better for the club and Manager that he chooses who he wants, to build a team his way and not what the money men think.


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## 4LEX (Jul 6, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Do you think that Ten Hag follows the buy and hope policy? Surely its better for the club and Manager that he chooses who he wants, to build a team his way and not what the money men think.
		
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To be fair I'd not trust either the football set up at Man Utd or Ten Hag. At least he has an identity though.


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## Foxholer (Jul 6, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Most managers return to previous clubs/leagues for players at their new team.
		
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That's likely because they fit in with the style of play they are hoping to play - and what has made their style of play successful enough to be attractive to the new club.
Others leave their club because they aren't allowed to continue that policy for whatever reason - (insufficient) finance/results being the most likely imo.


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## Foxholer (Jul 6, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Some do, some don't. The thing is Man Utd have come out and banged on about a restructure and how they're going to sign players that fit the clubs ethos. That was designed to take the transfer power and pressure off the manager/coach. Yet only a few months later it's clear they've got no idea about transfers and have handed 100% control to Ten Hag.

It's not the actions of a well run club who have learnt their lessons from wasting over a billion and a decade of failure. It looks like more of the same buy and hope policy.
		
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That 'club ethos' waffle was clearly a load of ! Trust the manager but ditch him if he can't get the team to perform adequately. Structure player contracts to incentivise (team) performance.


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## Bamberdele2.0 (Jul 7, 2022)

Only one man left for the job


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## pauljames87 (Jul 7, 2022)

Apparently we are on the verge of signing Flynn downs from Swansea (formerly of Ipswich) decent enough back up central midfielder and English so will up the home quota 

12 million well spent


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 7, 2022)

Sounds like Forest may be announcing Omar Richards from Bayern and Neco Williams in the next few days. £25m for both their services I believe. Left and right wingback sorted for the foreseeable future if so. 

Look forward to our 3rd European cup win in a few years time


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## Beezerk (Jul 8, 2022)

Jack Wilshire retires at 30 😳
He was obviously talented but I never really warmed to him as a player for some reason,  to me he seemed to lack that drive to be a really top level player. 
Interesting to hear what Arsenal fans think of him, did he have a lot of bad injuries during his career?


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## Swango1980 (Jul 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Jack Wilshire retires at 30 😳
He was obviously talented but I never really warmed to him as a player for some reason,  to me he seemed to lack that drive to be a really top level player. 
Interesting to hear what Arsenal fans think of him, did he have a lot of bad injuries during his career?
		
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I thought he'd quit playing years ago to he honest.


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## Beezerk (Jul 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I thought he'd quit playing years ago to he honest.
		
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😂😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2022)

Are there any words 😂


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## Billysboots (Jul 10, 2022)

https://mol.im/a/10998339

I was sent this link this morning by a golfing mate who thinks I’m nuts to be untroubled by the news Ronaldo wants out. I’m no fan of Oliver Holt or his brand of journalism, but I agree with virtually every word I’m afraid.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 43432


Are there any words 😂
		
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I can think of a few.!


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 43432


Are there any words 😂
		
Click to expand...




clubchamp98 said:



			I can think of a few.!
		
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As can I, but none that would survive the wrath of Fragger.


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## Dando (Jul 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 43432


Are there any words 😂
		
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Plenty mate but I’d get banned


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 10, 2022)

These words might pass the Fragger filter…


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## Tashyboy (Jul 11, 2022)

Seems right


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## nickjdavis (Jul 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 43432


Are there any words 😂
		
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Oh..I like those strides!!! Definitely a yes from me.


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## Foxholer (Jul 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Oh..I like those strides!!! Definitely a yes from me.
		
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Having seen n example of your 'taste' in 'strides', (at Thorndon Park) that doesn't surprise me! Even US tourists rarely, if ever, dress 'louder'!


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## Orikoru (Jul 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Jack Wilshire retires at 30 😳
He was obviously talented but I never really warmed to him as a player for some reason,  to me he seemed to lack that drive to be a really top level player.
Interesting to hear what Arsenal fans think of him,* did he have a lot of bad injuries during his career?*

Click to expand...

Does the pope  in the woods??

I thought he was overrated to be honest. Tidy midfielder, bit clumsy in the tackle. Every time I was injured, Arsenal fans would big him up more like he was going to come back and be their saviour each time. Had bad luck with injuries, but was his fitness the best it could have been anyway? Heard lots of stories about him smoking and doing gear when not playing. As you say, not sure he ever quite took it seriously enough.


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## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Does the pope  in the woods??
		
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I hope not. But a bear might 😉


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## Patster1969 (Jul 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 43432


Are there any words 😂
		
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Yup, who is he?


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## GreiginFife (Jul 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 43432


Are there any words 😂
		
Click to expand...


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 11, 2022)

Neco Williams FINALLY announced by Forest. 

I can't lie - I'm VERY excited about the way we're doing business - and it's VERY un-forest-like, so feels weird to have a management in place who know what they're doing. 

Still £40m to add a few key midfielders and some depth at striker and I think we'll have a solid team to give this premier league lark a good go.


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@fundy what do you think about Jesus joining your lads? Happy with the signings so far?
		
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A non scoring striker, yeah should fit in fine lol

Be happier when we address central midfield, especially if rumours are to be believed...... labelling Lokonga the new Yaya Toure really not gonna cut it lol


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Jack Wilshire retires at 30 😳
He was obviously talented but I never really warmed to him as a player for some reason,  to me he seemed to lack that drive to be a really top level player.
Interesting to hear what Arsenal fans think of him, did he have a lot of bad injuries during his career?
		
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Injuries, a bad attitude and believed his own press far too much. At best had good days and bad days, most of the time was injured or just bad days, far too inconsistent at the top level and how he is deemed a suitable coach/mentor for the U23s I struggle to comprehend


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## fundy (Jul 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Does the pope  in the woods??

I thought he was overrated to be honest. Tidy midfielder, bit clumsy in the tackle. Every time I was injured, Arsenal fans would big him up more like he was going to come back and be their saviour each time. Had bad luck with injuries, but was his fitness the best it could have been anyway? Heard lots of stories about him smoking and doing gear when not playing. As you say, not sure he ever quite took it seriously enough.
		
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yeah sounds like the sort of thing a Pope would do lol


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## nickjdavis (Jul 11, 2022)

England Ladies rampant against Norway.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			England Ladies rampant against Norway.
		
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Hope Gareth his watching he might actually learn something.
Norway surprisingly looking star struck


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Does the pope  in the woods??

I thought he was overrated to be honest. Tidy midfielder, bit clumsy in the tackle. Every time I was injured, Arsenal fans would big him up more like he was going to come back and be their saviour each time. Had bad luck with injuries, but was his fitness the best it could have been anyway? Heard lots of stories about him smoking and doing gear when not playing. As you say, not sure he ever quite took it seriously enough.
		
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A lot of his injuries were due to his style of play , never adapted to make his body last 

Always flew into tackles so easily injured there and then he had this one move of draw a player in.. nick ball away and take the challenge to get a foul. Not the best idea when your body is made of glass


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## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			England Ladies rampant against Norway.
		
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Not really following this tournament, but aren’t Norway supposed to be one of the stronger teams in it? A scoreline of 8-0 in a tournament finals speaks volumes regarding the quality of the tournament itself. It’s a nonsense, sorry.


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## Slime (Jul 11, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Not really following this tournament, but aren’t Norway supposed to be one of the stronger teams in it? A scoreline of 8-0 in a tournament finals speaks volumes regarding the quality of the tournament itself. It’s a nonsense, sorry.
		
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I'm enjoying it and think it's great that it's getting plenty of air time and publicity.
The art of enjoying it is to NOT compare it to mens' football ..................... especially the goal keeping.


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## Billysboots (Jul 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm enjoying it and think it's great that it's getting plenty of air time and publicity.
The art of enjoying it is to NOT compare it to mens' football ..................... especially the goal keeping.
		
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Goalkeeping in the women’s game has never been a particular high point, has it?


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm enjoying it and think it's great that it's getting plenty of air time and publicity.
*The art of enjoying it is to NOT compare it to mens' football* ..................... especially the goal keeping.
		
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Oh I don't know...

https://www.skysports.com/watch/vid...ires-chelsea-4-2-ahead-against-manchester-utd

Shades of Drogba at Woodison?   Go to 1.50


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## nickjdavis (Jul 11, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Not really following this tournament, but aren’t Norway supposed to be one of the stronger teams in it? A scoreline of 8-0 in a tournament finals speaks volumes regarding the quality of the tournament itself. It’s a nonsense, sorry.
		
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Yes they are (only ranked 3 places below England in the World rankings) ....and that goes to demonstrate the sheer quality of the English performance in the first half...they totally ripped Norway to shreds.....this wasn't a third rate nation they were playing against...Norway were one of the pre-tournament favourites and have a rich history as a nation in womens football and a team littered with players competing at the higher echelons of womens club football....in short, they were no mugs, but they were made to look stupid by a first half English performance that was a fine as any I've ever witnessed at any major tournament...irrespective of gender. I'd go so far as to say it eclipsed the demolition of the Netherlands at Euro '96 and Germany away in Munich in world cup qualifying.

Whilst there are still underlying issues at the heart of womens football, especially with the developing nations, it is unfair to dimsiss so liberally (as many seem to do) the game at higher levels....it is growing, and whilst sometimes that extra bit of quality might be lacking, it is refreshing to watch football played in good spirits without backchatting, feigning injury, multiple barrel rolls when a player is tripped, gross dissent, players crowding the ref yada yada yada.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Not really following this tournament, but aren’t Norway supposed to be one of the stronger teams in it? A scoreline of 8-0 in a tournament finals speaks volumes regarding the quality of the tournament itself. It’s a nonsense, sorry.
		
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I wonder if German fans were dismissing the quality of the 2014 Mens World Cup when they beat Brazil 7-1? 

Last night was the first game I watched through. And, in fairness to the England ladies, they played really well. Their movement was fantastic, they were composed and the quality of the crossing was great. It wasn't a scoreline based on comedic Norwegian errors that can sometimes be the case in ladies football. 

So, I'd be inclined to very much praise their performance, it is well deserved.


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## Bdill93 (Jul 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wonder if German fans were dismissing the quality of the 2014 Mens World Cup when they beat Brazil 7-1?

Last night was the first game I watched through. And, in fairness to the England ladies, they played really well. Their movement was fantastic, they were composed and the quality of the crossing was great. It wasn't a scoreline based on comedic Norwegian errors that can sometimes be the case in ladies football.

So, I'd be inclined to very much praise their performance, it is well deserved.
		
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Beth Mead had an absolute field day. Great to see the ladies dominate!!


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Not really following this tournament, but aren’t Norway supposed to be one of the stronger teams in it? A scoreline of 8-0 in a tournament finals speaks volumes regarding the quality of the tournament itself. It’s a nonsense, sorry.
		
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Unfortunately it's this type of viewpoint which will stop the women's game growing and younger girls being encouraged to take up the sport and strive to become professional athletes (if they so wish). If more people gave it a chance (and didn't compare it to the men's game all the time) - the game would continue to grow and grow.


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm enjoying it and think it's great that it's getting plenty of air time and publicity.
The art of enjoying it is to NOT compare it to mens' football ..................... especially the goal keeping.
		
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Tell that to the media - I saw a post last night saying Ellen White has scored more tournament goals than Shearer. What a worthless comparison. That's like saying Mitrovic scored more goals than Salah. As you say, constantly trying to hold it up against the men's game isn't helpful at all.



Billysboots said:



			Goalkeeping in the women’s game has never been a particular high point, has it?
		
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I don't know if this comes across as condescending at all, but I generally cut them a bit of slack since they play in the exact same size goals, but the average height of a goalkeeper must only be 5'10 or 5'11 compared to the men's keeper average which must be up around 6'3 you'd think. Any well-struck high dipping effort is likely to give them a problem really.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Tell that to the media - I saw a post last night saying Ellen White has scored more tournament goals than Shearer. What a worthless comparison. That's like saying Mitrovic scored more goals than Salah. As you say, constantly trying to hold it up against the men's game isn't helpful at all.


*I don't know if this comes across as condescending at all, but I generally cut them a bit of slack since they play in the exact same size goals, but the average height of a goalkeeper must only be 5'10 or 5'11 compared to the men's keeper average which must be up around 6'3 you'd think. Any well-struck high dipping effort is likely to give them a problem really.*

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This is actually a really good point - and something I hadn't even considered (which is weird as I've always been a goalkeeper by trade - can't do anything with a ball at my feet ).


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			This is actually a really good point - and something I hadn't even considered (which is weird as I've always been a goalkeeper by trade - can't do anything with a ball at my feet ).
		
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Long range goals posted on social media always have armchair blokes saying the keeper was crap. It is a bugbear of mine that they don't use common sense and think the keeper is 5'10 and the ball has dipped under the bar, what chance did they have?


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## Swango1980 (Jul 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Tell that to the media - I saw a post last night saying Ellen White has scored more tournament goals than Shearer. What a worthless comparison. That's like saying Mitrovic scored more goals than Salah. As you say, constantly trying to hold it up against the men's game isn't helpful at all.
		
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True. L. Hemp scored 3 more goals against Latvia alone last November, than Andy Cole scored in his entire England career



Orikoru said:



			I don't know if this comes across as condescending at all, but I generally cut them a bit of slack since they play in the exact same size goals, but the average height of a goalkeeper must only be 5'10 or 5'11 compared to the men's keeper average which must be up around 6'3 you'd think. Any well-struck high dipping effort is likely to give them a problem really.
		
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That is partly a reason, along with any general physical differences between men and women. Also, how many females grow up playing football as children compared to males? I'd say it is significantly fewer. Therefore, as a male there is more competition for spaces at elite level, and thus you are going to have to be extremely good to make it. There may be many potentially amazing female goalkeepers out there, but who never actually played the sport to reveal that talent. Lastly, the investment into coaching in the mens game must be significantly higher than the womens game, all the way down to grass roots level.

I'm sure tournaments such as this will really help promote the ladies game, and so the overall standard should get better and better over time. However, as I said in my last post, I thought the quality shown by England last night was fantastic.


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## BiMGuy (Jul 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			True. L. Hemp scored 3 more goals against Latvia alone last November, than Andy Cole scored in his entire England career



That is partly a reason, along with any general physical differences between men and women. Also, how many females grow up playing football as children compared to males? I'd say it is significantly fewer. Therefore, as a male there is more competition for spaces at elite level, and thus you are going to have to be extremely good to make it. There may be many potentially amazing female goalkeepers out there, but who never actually played the sport to reveal that talent. Lastly, the investment into coaching in the mens game must be significantly higher than the womens game, all the way down to grass roots level.

I'm sure tournaments such as this will really help promote the ladies game, and so the overall standard should get better and better over time. However, as I said in my last post, I thought the quality shown by England last night was fantastic.
		
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It’s all a numbers game. For example. My daughter will be playing U15s next season. There are 18 teams making up 2 leagues. To get that has required 2 counties joining together.

Whereas the boys have 110 teams from one County FA. 

Despite the disparity in numbers. There are girls at every age group that technically run rings round most of the boys, but once they hit puberty the boys start to separate physically and the girls struggle to compete.


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## Billysboots (Jul 12, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Unfortunately it's this type of viewpoint which will stop the women's game growing and younger girls being encouraged to take up the sport and strive to become professional athletes (if they so wish). If more people gave it a chance (and didn't compare it to the men's game all the time) - the game would continue to grow and grow.
		
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I don’t disagree, but I cannot help feeling that desperately one-sided games, especially when they actually involve two sides which are supposed to be very closely matched, do a tournament no favours at all.

I’m not comparing it to the mens game, by the way - I have similarly minimal interest in watching our men’s side batter the likes of Andorra or San Marino, either. Whatever it is, it’s not sport.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 12, 2022)

33 minutes in, and Man Utd are 3-0 up against Liverpool. Goals by Sancho, Fred and Martial. I think this shows that Man Utd are finally better than Liverpool, and probably the best club side in the world going into next season


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## Billysboots (Jul 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			33 minutes in, and Man Utd are 3-0 up against Liverpool. Goals by Sancho, Fred and Martial. I think this shows that Man Utd are finally better than Liverpool, and probably the best club side in the world going into next season 

Click to expand...

It could be our year 😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Jul 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			It could be our year 😂😂
		
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Absolutely. We've already won the Bangkok Century Cup by smashing Liverpool. Trophy in the cabinet for ten Hag. Onwards and upwards


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			It could be our year 😂😂
		
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Got to love the humour 😂

Guess he needed to play the first team to see what he was working with


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## Slime (Jul 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Got to love the humour 😂

Guess he needed to play the first team to see what he was working with
		
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## Golfmmad (Jul 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I don’t disagree, but I cannot help feeling that desperately one-sided games, especially when they actually involve two sides which are supposed to be very closely matched, do a tournament no favours at all.

I’m not comparing it to the mens game, by the way - I have similarly minimal interest in watching our men’s side batter the likes of Andorra or San Marino, either. Whatever it is, it’s not sport.
		
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Of course its sport. How can the developing nations improve if they're not pitted against the stronger ones? 
As for the Women's game, 
it's the future don't ya know. 😂😂


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## nickjdavis (Jul 12, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			How can the developing nations improve if they're not pitted against the stronger ones?
		
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They would develop far faster if the weaker nations played each other more regularly, rather than get humped 10-0 by the bigger nations. I mean...how on earth can you develop tactics and strategies (both as a player and as a coach) if you only have maybe 10% possession in a match?

This is why (in my opinion) the mens Nations League actually has some benefits for the weaker nations...they actually gain more possession against similar strength opposition, so can work on their game, more ball time will help improve technique, thought processes, passing skills, even morale....going in to a game with the sole intention of keeping the score down to 5 or 6 goals isn't good for anyones development.


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## Golfmmad (Jul 12, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			They would develop far faster if the weaker nations played each other more regularly, rather than get humped 10-0 by the bigger nations. I mean...how on earth can you develop tactics and strategies (both as a player and as a coach) if you only have maybe 10% possession in a match?

This is why (in my opinion) the mens Nations League actually has some benefits for the weaker nations...they actually gain more possession against similar strength opposition, so can work on their game, more ball time will help improve technique, thought processes, passing skills, even morale....going in to a game with the sole intention of keeping the score down to 5 or 6 goals isn't good for anyones development.
		
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I do get what you're saying, my point is that in any sport you want to be up against the better player/team to improve your own game. 
Aside from the obvious top team against bottom, they have to be stretched and learn how to lose. Otherwise it could be like being at school: we don't want Johnny to lose - everybody gets a prize situation. 
How else can they toughen up and compete? I suppose your answer might be your suggestion of the men's Nation league, which is a good point. 👍


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## nickjdavis (Jul 12, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I do get what you're saying, my point is that in any sport you want to be up against the better player/team to improve your own game.
Aside from the obvious top team against bottom, they have to be stretched and learn how to lose. Otherwise it could be like being at school: we don't want Johnny to lose - everybody gets a prize situation.
How else can they toughen up and compete? I suppose your answer might be your suggestion of the men's Nation league, which is a good point. 👍
		
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I don't disagree about learning to lose....I just don't see that value in losing 10-0 every week and having 10% possession, in terms of helping a team or a teams coach develop.


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## Billysboots (Jul 12, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I do get what you're saying, my point is that in any sport you want to be up against the better player/team to improve your own game.
Aside from the obvious top team against bottom, they have to be stretched and learn how to lose. Otherwise it could be like being at school: we don't want Johnny to lose - everybody gets a prize situation.
How else can they toughen up and compete? I suppose your answer might be your suggestion of the men's Nation league, which is a good point. 👍
		
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But surely the one sided thumpings are something which should be confined to qualifying. If they are still happening at tournament finals then it is a little farcical. Representative of a sport which is perhaps trying to run before it can walk.


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## nickjdavis (Jul 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			But surely the one sided thumpings are something which should be confined to qualifying. If they are still happening at tournament finals then it is a little farcical. Representative of a sport which is perhaps trying to run before it can walk.
		
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To a greater extent the one sided thumpings are confined to qualifying. The 2019 Women's World Cup only saw 4 games with a 4 or 5 goal margin in the group stages, and one with a 13 goal margin where the best team in the World (USA) crucified Thailand, who were, frankly, hapless.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Absolutely. We've already won the Bangkok Century Cup by smashing Liverpool. Trophy in the cabinet for ten Hag. Onwards and upwards 

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Congratulations enjoy it while it lasts.
Is that the same Fred and Martial that got a bit of stick last season?


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## Swango1980 (Jul 12, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			But surely the one sided thumpings are something which should be confined to qualifying. If they are still happening at tournament finals then it is a little farcical. Representative of a sport which is perhaps trying to run before it can walk.
		
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Are you not reading too much into one result? Thumpings happen at all levels of football, and even great teams get hammered from time to time. There have been big results in PL, but it didn't make the PL farcical.

Norway are only 3 ranking positions off England, so they are not supposedly a world apart in terms of quality. Everything just went perfect for England on the night, not so much for Norway. 

How else could the organisers try and avoid such results? Only permit the top 8 teams to play, and assume Ranks 9 and worse are not able to compete?


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## Billysboots (Jul 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



*Are you not reading too much into one result? *Thumpings happen at all levels of football, and even great teams get hammered from time to time. There have been big results in PL, but it didn't make the PL farcical.

Norway are only 3 ranking positions off England, so they are not supposedly a world apart in terms of quality. Everything just went perfect for England on the night, not so much for Norway.

How else could the organisers try and avoid such results? Only permit the top 8 teams to play, and assume Ranks 9 and worse are not able to compete?
		
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Possibly. Possibly not. Certainly the England fans leaving the game who were interviewed by Sky Sports seemed to be reading an awful lot into it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547203214243659776
Hopefully will stop all the accusations levelled towards the fans now


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547203214243659776
Hopefully will stop all the accusations levelled towards the fans now
		
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They will still try and blame them for some things.
But the mobile footage these days proved they were heavy handed.

At least the French authorities are a bit quicker that the English.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547203214243659776
Hopefully will stop all the accusations levelled towards the fans now
		
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So does this mean all the videos off fans misbehaving & bragging on social media about fake tickets were fake 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Jul 13, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			But surely the one sided thumpings are something which should be confined to qualifying. If they are still happening at tournament finals then it is a little farcical. Representative of a sport which is perhaps trying to run before it can walk.
		
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I have a feeling when the mens World Cup have more teams in the finals, thumping will be the norm. But as long as FIFA see the game being developed ( along with making more money) that’s ok 😉


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## Swango1980 (Jul 15, 2022)

Man Utd finally sign Eriksen.

They also beat the mighty Melbourne Victory 4-1, with Martial scoring again and Rashford getting another. 

No stopping us now, we could be the most in form team in the world


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## GB72 (Jul 15, 2022)

Can someone explain to me how Barcelona keep signing players. From what I read recently, they are basically skint, owe players millions on wages, have to run a one in one out policy on registering players yet manage to make another 50 million pound plus signin today. Admittedly I am not the most knowledgeable in these matters but it all seems a bit wrong to me. Are some clubs simply too big to be censured?


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## Billysboots (Jul 15, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Can someone explain to me how Barcelona keep signing players. From what I read recently, they are basically skint, owe players millions on wages, have to run a one in one out policy on registering players yet manage to make another 50 million pound plus signin today. Admittedly I am not the most knowledgeable in these matters but it all seems a bit wrong to me. Are some clubs simply too big to be censured?
		
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If it means my shower finally get to land their number one summer transfer target, I’m all for it 😉


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## Billysboots (Jul 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Man Utd finally sign Eriksen.

They also beat the mighty Melbourne Victory 4-1, with Martial scoring again and Rashford getting another.

No stopping us now, we could be the most in form team in the world 

Click to expand...

I think Eriksen could be the best signing we’ve made in a long, long time. Finally, someone who can put his foot on the ball, look up, and pick a pass. Quality player, I wish we’d signed him when he left Spurs.


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 15, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			If it means my shower finally get to land their number one summer transfer target, I’m all for it 😉
		
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Do you still want him even though it seems as though he doesn't want to move to you?


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## Swango1980 (Jul 15, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Do you still want him even though it seems as though he doesn't want to move to you?
		
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I'm not sure how true that is? My understanding is he doesn't want to leave Barcelona until they pay him what they owe him. If they are messing him around, I'm not sure he would have much respect for them. What they say in public isn't always what they feel privately.


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## Billysboots (Jul 15, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Do you still want him even though it seems as though he doesn't want to move to you?
		
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Not entirely sure that’s the case.


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## fundy (Jul 15, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Can someone explain to me how Barcelona keep signing players. From what I read recently, they are basically skint, owe players millions on wages, have to run a one in one out policy on registering players yet manage to make another 50 million pound plus signin today. Admittedly I am not the most knowledgeable in these matters but it all seems a bit wrong to me. Are some clubs simply too big to be censured?
		
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theyve "sold" some of their future tv rights and mkting revenues , continually kicking the can down the road a year or two until theres no more road.......


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## fundy (Jul 15, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			If it means my shower finally get to land their number one summer transfer target, I’m all for it 😉
		
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thats only going to happen if someone pays him the deferred wages (15m???) that Barca are trying to avoid isnt it


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## Billysboots (Jul 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			thats only going to happen if someone pays him the deferred wages (15m???) that Barca are trying to avoid isnt it
		
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Dunno.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 16, 2022)

Blimey that Darwin Nunez looks a bit 😬


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## Slime (Jul 17, 2022)

Martinez signs for United.
Three down, two to go!


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## Tashyboy (Jul 17, 2022)

Slime said:



			Martinez signs for United.
Three down, two to go!
		
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I sense a positive vibe coming from Utd and it’s fans. First time in a long time. I get they have a new manager but I wonder what’s gone off behind closed doors for attitude/direction to change 🤔👍


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## Slime (Jul 17, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I sense a positive vibe coming from Utd and it’s fans. First time in a long time. I get they have a new manager but I wonder what’s gone off behind closed doors for attitude/direction to change 🤔👍
		
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I think/hope ETH will be our best signing.
It took a while for his appointment to be finalised and I'm sure it was largely due to his demands regarding control of in comings and outgoings.
I still detest the owners but actually have a little bit of optimism for the coming season ....................... I think.


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## Billysboots (Jul 17, 2022)

Slime said:



			I think/hope ETH will be our best signing.
It took a while for his appointment to be finalised and I'm sure it was largely due to his demands regarding control of in comings and outgoings.
I still detest the owners but actually have a little bit of optimism for the coming season ....................... I think.
		
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^^ This.

I also sense the new manager will be more robust in his dealings with the club hierarchy than his two predecessors. The club simply cannot afford more of the same and just change the manager.

That and I like what I am seeing in the transfer market. The right players are on their way out, and some good signings on the way in. I really like what I am seeing written about Martinez in particular.


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## Bdill93 (Jul 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			theyve "sold" some of their future tv rights and mkting revenues , continually kicking the can down the road a year or two until theres no more road.......
		
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They're gambling with their future to a really high degree - Selling 49% of their merchandising for a one off payment and 25% of TV rights...

Sold naming rights to the Nou Camp and a shirt deal with Spotify for big sums though

Mess of a club, in these circumstances they should sign young players with a long future who can turn a profit (or bring a dynasty), instead they've signed twilight of career players for large sums desperate to be relevant again.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 18, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			They're gambling with their future to a really high degree - Selling 49% of their merchandising for a one off payment and 25% of TV rights...

Sold naming rights to the Nou Camp and a shirt deal with Spotify for big sums though

Mess of a club, in these circumstances they should sign young players with a long future who can turn a profit (or bring a dynasty), instead they've signed twilight of career players for large sums desperate to be relevant again.
		
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I'm sure there'll be someone else willing to  prop them up when it goes belly up next time. 

It would be interesting to see what it will take before they're left to fend for themselves.


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## Dando (Jul 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm sure there'll be someone else willing to  prop them up when it goes belly up next time.

It would be interesting to see what it will take before they're left to fend for themselves.
		
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Hell will freeze over before that happens mate


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## fundy (Jul 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm sure there'll be someone else willing to  prop them up when it goes belly up next time.

It would be interesting to see what it will take before they're left to fend for themselves.
		
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Cynical me did partly wonder whether theyve been talking to a potential purchaser in the middle east but cant go down that road really and need to make current circumstances even worth before they announce the takeover as the only way to save the club and put them on a financial footing to compete with City, PSG etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I think Eriksen could be the best signing we’ve made in a long, long time. Finally, someone who can put his foot on the ball, look up, and pick a pass. Quality player, I wish we’d signed him when he left Spurs.
		
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😁😉


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## Swango1980 (Jul 21, 2022)

Everton fans, what are your feelings going into next season? Enthusiastic, dread, confident, frustration?

I know little can be read into pre-season, but losing 4-0 to Minnesota Utd cannot inspire much belief within the squad.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Everton fans, what are your feelings going into next season? Enthusiastic, dread, confident, frustration?

I know little can be read into pre-season, but losing 4-0 to Minnesota Utd cannot inspire much belief within the squad.
		
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Worry

At this stage I'm not sure I can see us being much different to last season. Tarkowski is a cracking signing for us, should reduce the leakage from set pieces which has been horrible, but we failed to hold the ball in midfield last season and we have done nothing to address that so far. Ideally we would have those players in now but I can us doing the bulk of our business on the last day of the window sadly. Hopefully we do smart business, we need to.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 21, 2022)

I should add, I don't put too much store in pre-season but if you have finished badly then you need all the moral boosters you can get. Hopefully, the trip away is giving Lampard a chance to try out a few things, systems, players etc and the next few games back in the UK are closer to what we should be seeing coming August.

Worryingly, for us, transfer deadline day this year is Sept 1st rather than when the season starts. That is quite a while away still and we will have played 5 games by then


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## Jimaroid (Jul 21, 2022)

Yeah we’ve got big gaps and problems still.  But from a more confident perspective it’s been a long time since I’ve felt like we’re going into a season with a manager I have faith in. The Minnesota result looks embarrassingly poor but looking at the players in the second half it’s just underlining what we already know.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 21, 2022)

Lingard to Forest confirmed. I'd expect an announcement before the weekend. 

Bonkers that this even became a thing!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Lingard to Forest confirmed. I'd expect an announcement before the weekend.

Bonkers that this even became a thing!
		
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The Forest wage bill this season will be a bit different to last . I hope there are plenty of good clauses in there, just in case......


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## Orikoru (Jul 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Lingard to Forest confirmed. I'd expect an announcement before the weekend.

Bonkers that this even became a thing!
		
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That's a great signing. Hard to believe that a mid-table club haven't gone in for him, given how he performed for West Ham the season before last.


Anyone see Stanway's goal for England ladies last night? Was an absolute cracker and a great way to win the tie.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The Forest wage bill this season will be a bit different to last . I hope there are plenty of good clauses in there, just in case......
		
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fingers crossed - but we have the money (I think )...Our front office (for a change) seems to know what they're doing, so hopefully has some good reward-based clauses in it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			fingers crossed - but we have the money (I think )...Our front office (for a change) seems to know what they're doing, so hopefully has some good reward-based clauses in it.
		
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I was thinking less reward based and more cover your backsides with relegation type clauses. I just didn't want to say the R word .

You are probably just spending the Sky money so that isn't an issue. A runaway wage bill is the usual danger.


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## fundy (Jul 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Lingard to Forest confirmed. I'd expect an announcement before the weekend.

Bonkers that this even became a thing!
		
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the only bonkers part is the 180k a week!!!!


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			fingers crossed - but we have the money (I think )...Our front office (for a change) seems to know what they're doing, so hopefully has some good reward-based clauses in it.
		
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Nice to have a proper European Cup winning team back in the prem.
Genuine q “ where do you think you will finish this season”?
Seen a few games last year and you looked very good!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			the only bonkers part is the 180k a week!!!!
		
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True, but no transfer fee so if you look at the total spend over the length of the contract it probably is about right. Had someone bought him last summer he probably would have gone for £20-25m and be on £120-£140 per week (scary but true). They also now have a book asset that they can sell for a profit if needs be.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			the only bonkers part is the 180k a week!!!!
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			True, but no transfer fee so if you look at the total spend over the length of the contract it probably is about right. Had someone bought him last summer he probably would have gone for £20-25m and be on £120-£140 per week (scary but true). They also now have a book asset that they can sell for a profit if needs be.
		
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Exactly this. 

I'm trying to find out what wage structure they've offered (signings not been announced yet, but my cousin is friend's with our CEO and received a text yesterday to say it was a done deal and medical due last night)....as I'm intrigued as to whether we have offered him the £180k he wanted or done it differently. 



clubchamp98 said:



			Nice to have a proper European Cup winning team back in the prem.
Genuine q “ where do you think you will finish this season”?
Seen a few games last year and you looked very good!
		
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I think we can realistically finish as high as 12-14th if everything falls into place with the signings we've made and we're not marred too much by injury. Steve Cooper is a really good man manager and will get the best out of the likes of Lingard, which could really stand us in good stead - but in reality I'd love anything 17th or above


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 21, 2022)

Also worth mentioning - West Ham are interested in Ben Brerton Diaz from Blackburn...there's a sell on clause in his contract - and If sold, the money we make from his sale would pay for approx 6 months of Lingard's wages.


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## fundy (Jul 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Also worth mentioning - West Ham are interested in Ben Brerton Diaz from Blackburn...there's a sell on clause in his contract - and If sold, the money we make from his sale would pay for approx 6 months of Lingard's wages. 

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West ham almost been linked with as many players as we have been lol


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			West ham almost been linked with as many players as we have been lol
		
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I think he's linked with a few other clubs, but mentioned West Ham as they wanted Lingard as well. Would be funny if they (indirectly) end up paying some of Lingard's wages, even though he didn't go there.


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## Fade and Die (Jul 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			West ham almost been linked with as many players as we have been lol
		
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It’s typical West Ham, linked with loads of players, make a couple of derisory offers then come out with “well we tried”… There’s every chance we start the season with 10 of the 11 that started the season TWO seasons ago. 🤬🤬🤬🤬


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## pauljames87 (Jul 21, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			It’s typical West Ham, linked with loads of players, make a couple of derisory offers then come out with “well we tried”… There’s every chance we start the season with 10 of the 11 that started the season TWO seasons ago. 🤬🤬🤬🤬
		
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2 newbies already tho and signed the keeper full time.. downes looks tidy

Augerad if he isn't too injured after rangers is a huge signing

Areola.. class act

Moyes is getting who he wants , Rome wasn't built in a day

Window closes 1st sept ages yet 

Don't like fans moaning lingard is "mucking us about"

It's the lads last move .. he can take as long as he needs .. it's his career not ours


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## Fade and Die (Jul 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			2 newbies already tho and signed the keeper full time.. downes looks tidy

Augerad if he isn't too injured after rangers is a huge signing

Areola.. class act

Moyes is getting who he wants , Rome wasn't built in a day

Window closes 1st sept ages yet

Don't like fans moaning lingard is "mucking us about"

It's the lads last move .. he can take as long as he needs .. it's his career not ours
		
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Yes 3 signed players and a lot of farts in the wind.

1 of them is potential and hardly gonna knock Rice or Soucek to the bench. 

1 was here last year anyway. (And I don’t think he is as good as Fab)

1 was bought to strengthen the back line. 

Also we are 6 or 7 down from last season due to contracts and retirement.

Our squad was far too thin last season so goodness knows what will happen this year? 

Keys areas that desperately needed strengthening are still not strengthened. I trust Moyes but the 2 Pimps with their hands on the purse strings definitely not.


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## hairball_89 (Jul 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			That's a great signing. Hard to believe that a mid-table club haven't gone in for him, given how he performed for West Ham the season before last.


*Anyone see Stanway's goal for England ladies last night? Was an absolute cracker and a great way to win the tie.*

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Yup, was in the ground for it. Best match I've been to in years, 2 great teams. The Spanish midfield were superb, our girls couldn't get near them for the first hour or so. Think coming from behind in a tight game will do them the world of good. Hopefully they can go all the way - got Final tickets too!


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## pauljames87 (Jul 21, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Yes 3 signed players and a lot of farts in the wind.

1 of them is potential and hardly gonna knock Rice or Soucek to the bench.

1 was here last year anyway. (And I don’t think he is as good as Fab)

1 was bought to strengthen the back line.

Also we are 6 or 7 down from last season due to contracts and retirement.

Our squad was far too thin last season so goodness knows what will happen this year?

Keys areas that desperately needed strengthening are still not strengthened. I trust Moyes but the 2 Pimps with their hands on the purse strings definitely not.
		
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Two summers running we have spent 30 million on a CB, that's good work. Zouma and Aguerd will complement each other. Aguerd is left footed so enables zouma to play the right side (he is right footed so suits) aguerds passing stats last year were brilliant. He will improve our play from defence to midfield to attack.

I personally think areola is better. Fab is on the decline and cost us a few goals last season. But agree to disagree

Downes isn't suppose to replace them, they are class. He is back up / rotation / if we want to go 3 in middle . Rice has a 2 game Europe ban is it? That's his game there 

We may be 7 players down on paper but in reality we aren't 

Kral played what 45 mins all season.. Coventry takes his position , downes replaces noble 

Augerad is an additional

Vlasic looks better in pre season...he hardly got a chance.. he replaces yarmelko 

It's the beginning of the window really less than 3 weeks and already 3 players in

I don't believe half the links its agents leaks trying to get moves forced through , ie Newcastle I doubt were ever interested in areola and augerad.. but suddenly their linked and the Pope transfer speeds up

Prob why they are linked to broga now to force our hands a bit.. they want a loan we want a transfer etc

Downes transfer came from nowhere.. we got it done quickly and we move to next target 

End of day it's July 21st , first game is 7th August .. end of window is 1st sept 

I strongly believe we will have 3-4 more signings in the coming weeks


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## Fade and Die (Jul 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Two summers running we have spent 30 million on a CB, that's good work. Zouma and Aguerd will complement each other. Aguerd is left footed so enables zouma to play the right side (he is right footed so suits) aguerds passing stats last year were brilliant. He will improve our play from defence to midfield to attack.

I personally think areola is better. Fab is on the decline and cost us a few goals last season. But agree to disagree

Downes isn't suppose to replace them, they are class. He is back up / rotation / if we want to go 3 in middle . Rice has a 2 game Europe ban is it? That's his game there

We may be 7 players down on paper but in reality we aren't

Kral played what 45 mins all season.. Coventry takes his position , downes replaces noble

Augerad is an additional

Vlasic looks better in pre season...he hardly got a chance.. he replaces yarmelko

It's the beginning of the window really less than 3 weeks and already 3 players in

I don't believe half the links its agents leaks trying to get moves forced through , ie Newcastle I doubt were ever interested in areola and augerad.. but suddenly their linked and the Pope transfer speeds up

Prob why they are linked to broga now to force our hands a bit.. they want a loan we want a transfer etc

Downes transfer came from nowhere.. we got it done quickly and we move to next target

End of day it's July 21st , first game is 7th August .. end of window is 1st sept

*I strongly believe we will have 3-4 more signings in the coming weeks*

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Hope your right…Who will replace Noble tho? 🐢


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## pauljames87 (Jul 21, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Hope your right…Who will replace Noble tho? 🐢
		
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Downes is nobles replacement already. A much faster player of good quality. Tidy player

So Coventry replaces kral 

Downes replaces noble 

We desperately need a Lb .. cresswell has been a defensive liability for a while. He is too slow can't get much faster. Made the same mistake twice in Europa and cost us 

His "offensive" side is overstated.. coufal had 1 less assist his first season without set pieces and fornals / Bowen take equal if not better set pieces 

Johnson is ok there but another lb with cresswell as cover


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## RichA (Jul 21, 2022)

Really impressed with the signings Forest have made so far. Jesse Lingard on a free is a pretty good addition to a newly promoted team.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2022)

Blimey, might aswell give Darwin Nunez the Balon D'or now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Blimey, might aswell give Darwin Nunez the Balon D'or now.
		
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Surely not - he was a £100mil ( think that’s the price they are using now ) flop last week 🤷‍♂️


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## IanM (Jul 21, 2022)

The test of a game is when you don't care who wins.

Germany/Austria was a tough watch!


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## backwoodsman (Jul 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Lingard to Forest confirmed. I'd expect an announcement before the weekend.

Bonkers that this even became a thing!
		
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Genuine question - can I ask as to where you find your info? I've only seen the Lingard thing to be 'likely' (rather than confirmed).

Edit. Oops: have now seen your later post.


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## Slime (Jul 21, 2022)

Wolves friendly against Levante.
Four 1st half red cards .......................... in a friendly?
Woops!


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## Slime (Jul 21, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Genuine question - can I ask as to where you find your info? I've only seen the Lingard thing to be 'likely' (rather than confirmed).
		
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I heard it on Sky Sports News earlier this evening.


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## backwoodsman (Jul 21, 2022)

Slime said:



			I heard it on Sky Sports News earlier this evening.
		
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And now of course, I've seen it posted on Forest's own website.


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## Swingalot (Jul 21, 2022)

180k a week for Lingard. Omg!


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## larmen (Jul 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			The test of a game is when you don't care who wins.

Germany/Austria was a tough watch!
		
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I have national pride at stake there. I watched ‘The undeclared war’ instead of the 2nd half.
I also used to live in Brentford and am still close, didn’t look to get a ticket.

They started quite nice in the 1st 5 to 10 minutes, nice technical football, then it became a destructive hoof it forward game.


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## Golfmmad (Jul 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			That's a great signing. Hard to believe that a mid-table club haven't gone in for him, given how he performed for West Ham the season before last.


Anyone see Stanway's goal for England ladies last night? Was an absolute cracker and a great way to win the tie.
		
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I did, but I didn't!! Was at the game, needed the loo, decided to go before it got too busy. I heard the roar so knew we'd scored. Gutted is the word. 
England deserved the win with a great second half performance.


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## Billysboots (Jul 22, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			180k a week for Lingard. Omg!
		
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That’s a huge amount for a newly promoted club. I know Forest haven’t paid a fee, but it’s an enormous commitment.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 22, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			That’s a huge amount for a newly promoted club. I know Forest haven’t paid a fee, but it’s an enormous commitment.
		
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The fee I heard rumoured when we were in for him was 10 million sign on fee , 150k a week for 3-4 year deal 

Less risk I guess with one year deal but I'm very surprised he has signed only a 1 year deal rather a multi year deal with a relegation release Clause (not that I think they will go down)

Just at his age you would think you want a long a deal as possible


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			That’s a huge amount for a newly promoted club. I know Forest haven’t paid a fee, but it’s an enormous commitment.
		
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only 9m for the year, expect theres an option for another year if it goes well or he sails off to who wants to pay the price next year if it doesnt


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The fee I heard rumoured when we were in for him was 10 million sign on fee , 150k a week for 3-4 year deal

Less risk I guess with one year deal but I'm very surprised he has signed only a 1 year deal rather a multi year deal with a relegation release Clause (not that I think they will go down)

Just at his age you would think you want a long a deal as possible
		
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Had offers from MLS in USA and Saudi, expect hes confident those offers will still be around next year


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## pauljames87 (Jul 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Had offers from MLS in USA and Saudi, expect hes confident those offers will still be around next year
		
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Perhaps, the rumour mill is he wanted to come back to London but his family didn't want him to ..fair enough. 

One thing lingard isn't short of is confidence that's for sure lol 

One to look out for in fantasy footy


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Perhaps, the rumour mill is he wanted to come back to London but his family didn't want him to ..fair enough.

*One thing lingard isn't short of is confidence that's for sure lol*

One to look out for in fantasy footy
		
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That makes up for his lack of ability.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			180k a week for Lingard. Omg!
		
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It makes the £150k per week we gave to Milner when Rodgers was there sound reasonable!!


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## Billysboots (Jul 22, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Less risk I guess with one year deal but I'm very surprised he has signed only a 1 year deal rather a multi year deal with a relegation release Clause (not that I think they will go down)

Just at his age you would think you want a long a deal as possible
		
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If the rumours which have plagued him at United are true, then he may only have been offered a year. It might also explain why he has ended up where he has.

Lingard is a hugely talented player, so there must be other reasons that successive managers have repeatedly left him out of match day squads. The suggestion, as I have mentioned here before, is that he was a major disruptive influence.


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## hairball_89 (Jul 22, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			If the rumours which have plagued him at United are true, then he may only have been offered a year. It might also explain why he has ended up where he has.

*Lingard is a hugely talented player*,...
		
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Is he?! I thought he was one of the better youth prospects coming through and then never developed or pushed on and "settled" with the talent of a mid table midfielder but stayed at United on a stupid contract that nobody else would compete with.


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## Billysboots (Jul 22, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Is he?! I thought he was one of the better youth prospects coming through and then never developed or pushed on and "settled" with the talent of a mid table midfielder but stayed at United on a stupid contract that nobody else would compete with.
		
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He’s a hugely talented player who didn’t look out of place in an England shirt. He’s wasted his talent.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			He’s a hugely talented player who didn’t look out of place in an England shirt. He’s wasted his talent.
		
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Talent will only take you so far, I find it’s an attitude problem with most of these players.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 22, 2022)

He's basically been given a "prove it" contract. He's put himself in the shop window and we've facilitated it. The wage (I believe) is less than £180k. but with performance related bonuses up to £180k-£200k a week. His kid lives in the midlands too, which may have been why he ended up leaning towards Forest over West Ham. 

Is it a lot of money? Yes. Do I think it's worth it? Yes. Not only does he bring a wealth of experience (Premier League, Champions League, Europa League, international), that he can pass on to the likes of Brennan Johnson - he also brings along brand new exposure for the club as, whether you like him or not, he's a marquee player (look at how everyone is talking about this signing). Before the window even opened our owner stated he wasn't just "playing to not get relegated" - he wants to create a new legacy at Forest and fair play to him he's kept to his word, he's opened up his cheque book and given Steve Cooper and Dane Murphy the money to do it. The signing is a statement of intent and I don't believe we're done yet either.



hairball_89 said:



			Is he?! I thought he was one of the better youth prospects coming through and then never developed or pushed on and "settled" with the talent of a mid table midfielder but stayed at United on a stupid contract that nobody else would compete with.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Talent will only take you so far, I find it’s an attitude problem with most of these players.
		
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He's not a world beater but double digits caps for England and was absolutely on fire when loaned out to West Ham (9 goals in 16 games). There's definitely a player in there who can make a difference to our squad this season. 

One of Steve Cooper's strengths is his man management and locker room cohesion. Half our squad last season were loanees and they all gave everything for the badge like they were under long term contract with the club - that's the Steve Cooper effect. The fact he's on triple the salary of any of the other players is perhaps a worry, but they would have thought about that and the signing isn't something they would have walked into lightly. 

If anyone can manage someone like Lingard, integrate him with the squad and keep the squad working as one, I believe it's Steve Cooper. Ask Neil Warnock about DJed Spence's attitude at the start of last season. He was lazy, had a massive attitude problem and was 3rd or 4th RWB choice at Boro. He was loaned out to us and had a breakout season - and whenever he was talked about, Steve Cooper mentioned how good his attitude was and how hard he worked. 

Makes me laugh when people shout "you've done a Fulham and replaced too much of the squad and panic bought. Your squad won't gel"....we didn't have a choice - half our starting XI were loans last season - we HAD to replace them, we had no choice.. The signings we've made have been savvy and well thought out as far as I can see as well.

Time will tell as to whether this will work out - but I'm cautiously optimistic about our chances of staying up.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 22, 2022)

I think he is a great signing for Forest. It's a 1 year deal so no real risk. He is proven PL quality, will get goals, create, make space for others. If they can get the tune out of him that West Ham did then it will help them massively. It will surely lift the players around him.

I said it in an early post but I think it is worth repeating, forget the weekly, wage, look at the whole spend on him. It's about right for someone at his level.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 22, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			He's basically been given a "prove it" contract. He's put himself in the shop window and we've facilitated it. The wage (I believe) is less than £180k. but with performance related bonuses up to £180k-£200k a week. His kid lives in the midlands too, which may have been why he ended up leaning towards Forest over West Ham.

Is it a lot of money? Yes. Do I think it's worth it? Yes. Not only does he bring a wealth of experience (Premier League, Champions League, Europa League, international), that he can pass on to the likes of Brennan Johnson - he also brings along brand new exposure for the club as, whether you like him or not, he's a marquee player (look at how everyone is talking about this signing). Before the window even opened our owner stated he wasn't just "playing to not get relegated" - he wants to create a new legacy at Forest and fair play to him he's kept to his word, he's opened up his cheque book and given Steve Cooper and Dane Murphy the money to do it. The signing is a statement of intent and I don't believe we're done yet either.





He's not a world beater but double digits caps for England and was absolutely on fire when loaned out to West Ham (9 goals in 16 games). There's definitely a player in there who can make a difference to our squad this season.

One of Steve Cooper's strengths is his man management and locker room cohesion. Half our squad last season were loanees and they all gave everything for the badge like they were under long term contract with the club - that's the Steve Cooper effect. The fact he's on triple the salary of any of the other players is perhaps a worry, but they would have thought about that and the signing isn't something they would have walked into lightly.

If anyone can manage someone like Lingard, integrate him with the squad and keep the squad working as one, I believe it's Steve Cooper. Ask Neil Warnock about DJed Spence's attitude at the start of last season. He was lazy, had a massive attitude problem and was 3rd or 4th RWB choice at Boro. He was loaned out to us and had a breakout season - and whenever he was talked about, Steve Cooper mentioned how good his attitude was and how hard he worked.

Makes me laugh when people shout "you've done a Fulham and replaced too much of the squad and panic bought. Your squad won't gel"....we didn't have a choice - half our starting XI were loans last season - we HAD to replace them, we had no choice.. The signings we've made have been savvy and well thought out as far as I can see as well.

Time will tell as to whether this will work out - but I'm cautiously optimistic about our chances of staying up.
		
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I think some players are better as a big fish in a small pond, and they don't do so well when they are a small fish in a big pond. I know Utd have been terrible, but Lingard was in a big pond in terms of fans expectations and the global exposure he was under. He was never seen as a top player at Utd. Even with Utd as bad as they were, there were always many players considered bigger and better at Utd, with Lingard a squad player. Despite the odd great performance, he never managed to sustain anything to push himself into a key player. Mentally, I think he could have well struggled with that.

However, when he went to West Ham, where expectations and criticsm for poor performances were less, he got as new lease of life. Suddenly, he felt a hugely important figure within that team, and he looked to thrive on that. Came out of his shell, and was able to show the quality he had.

So, he will be an interesting watch next season. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a very good season indeed. Might be worth a place on my fantasy football team.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think he is a great signing for Forest. It's a 1 year deal so no real risk. He is proven PL quality, will get goals, create, make space for others. If they can get the tune out of him that West Ham did then it will help them massively. It will surely lift the players around him.

I said it in an early post but I think it is worth repeating, forget the weekly, wage, look at the whole spend on him. It's about right for someone at his level.
		
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Exactly this. Zero risk to the club other than his wage, which is really not all that much given that our owner has relatively deep pockets, we got a nice chunk of change for being promoted and we'll get additional revenue from TV money etc this season.... And if West Ham pay for Brererton-Diaz from Blackburn, we'll take our 25% sell on cut and use that to pay his wages for the year. Job done


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## Fade and Die (Jul 22, 2022)

I’m glad Lingard has signed, finally Moyes can take his Jesse posters down and he might start looking elsewhere!


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## Billysboots (Jul 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Talent will only take you so far, I find it’s an attitude problem with most of these players.
		
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Totally agree.


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2022)

Lingard will be a good player at Forest's level, but it's unbelievable that he's already 29. The amount of times he's nearly broken through and people still talking about his potential you'd think he was 24.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Lingard will be a good player at Forest's level, but it's unbelievable that he's already 29. The amount of times he's nearly broken through and people still talking about his potential you'd think he was 24. 

Click to expand...

This level you're talking about? Elite level, I assume?


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			This level you're talking about? Elite level, I assume? 

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Relegation scrap level!


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Relegation scrap level!
		
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Leeds, Bournemouth, Everton and Fulham can fight for relegation. 

We'll just finish mid-table instead.


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## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Leeds, Bournemouth, Everton and Fulham can fight for relegation.

*We'll just finish mid-table instead*. 

Click to expand...

Lingard isn't that good!


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Lingard isn't that good! 

Click to expand...



Hopefully one or two of our other signings can make a difference. I'd be happy with 17th to be honest!


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2022)

Uh oh!!! Another thread being taken over by a newcomer


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Uh oh!!! Another thread being taken over by a newcomer 

Click to expand...

 Pipe down old man.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			He's basically been given a "prove it" contract. He's put himself in the shop window and we've facilitated it. The wage (I believe) is less than £180k. but with performance related bonuses up to £180k-£200k a week. His kid lives in the midlands too, which may have been why he ended up leaning towards Forest over West Ham.

Is it a lot of money? Yes. Do I think it's worth it? Yes. Not only does he bring a wealth of experience (Premier League, Champions League, Europa League, international), that he can pass on to the likes of Brennan Johnson - he also brings along brand new exposure for the club as, whether you like him or not, he's a marquee player (look at how everyone is talking about this signing). Before the window even opened our owner stated he wasn't just "playing to not get relegated" - he wants to create a new legacy at Forest and fair play to him he's kept to his word, he's opened up his cheque book and given Steve Cooper and Dane Murphy the money to do it. The signing is a statement of intent and I don't believe we're done yet either.





He's not a world beater but double digits caps for England and was absolutely on fire when loaned out to West Ham (9 goals in 16 games). There's definitely a player in there who can make a difference to our squad this season.

One of Steve Cooper's strengths is his man management and locker room cohesion. Half our squad last season were loanees and they all gave everything for the badge like they were under long term contract with the club - that's the Steve Cooper effect. The fact he's on triple the salary of any of the other players is perhaps a worry, but they would have thought about that and the signing isn't something they would have walked into lightly.

If anyone can manage someone like Lingard, integrate him with the squad and keep the squad working as one, I believe it's Steve Cooper. Ask Neil Warnock about DJed Spence's attitude at the start of last season. He was lazy, had a massive attitude problem and was 3rd or 4th RWB choice at Boro. He was loaned out to us and had a breakout season - and whenever he was talked about, Steve Cooper mentioned how good his attitude was and how hard he worked.

Makes me laugh when people shout "you've done a Fulham and replaced too much of the squad and panic bought. Your squad won't gel"....we didn't have a choice - half our starting XI were loans last season - we HAD to replace them, we had no choice.. The signings we've made have been savvy and well thought out as far as I can see as well.

*Time will tell as to whether this will work out - but I'm cautiously optimistic about our chances of staying up.*

Click to expand...

And this is what supporting your team is all about. 

The hope and optimism going into a new season should be right up for everyone, even Evertonians 😁😁


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			And this is what supporting your team is all about.

The hope and optimism going into a new season should be right up for everyone, even Evertonians 😁😁
		
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Lets not get carried away, Everton should be worried.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Lets not get carried away, Everton should be worried.
		
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Brutal. 🤣🤣


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## 4LEX (Jul 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Lingard will be a good player at Forest's level, but it's unbelievable that he's already 29. The amount of times he's nearly broken through and people still talking about his potential you'd think he was 24. 

Click to expand...

The only wonderkid and prospect that's almost 30. His mental age is about 12 judging by his TikToks so I guess it balances out. This is the sort of signing that gets clubs relegated and managers sacked.

Imagine working hard on 5-10k a week and getting Forest promoted then seeing this clown come in on 20 times that, dancing around after you've been pummelled 7-0 by City


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## RichA (Jul 22, 2022)

4LEX said:



			The only wonderkid and prospect that's almost 30. His mental age is about 12 judging by his TikToks so I guess it balances out. This is the sort of signing that gets clubs relegated and managers sacked.

Imagine working hard on 5-10k a week and getting Forest promoted then seeing this clown come in on 20 times that, dancing around after you've been pummelled 7-0 by City 

Click to expand...

He's a footballer, not a member of the diplomatic corps, so his TikTok antics don't concern me.
Lots of players just need the right club and the right manager to produce their best - hopefully Forest and Cooper are a match for him. Playing a key role rather than a supporting one might be what he needs. I hope so and I'm excited to see what happens.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2022)

RichA said:



			He's a footballer, not a member of the diplomatic corps, so his TikTok antics don't concern me.
Lots of players just need the right club and the right manager to produce their best - hopefully Forest and Cooper are a match for him. Playing a key role rather than a supporting one might be what he needs. I hope so and I'm excited to see what happens.
		
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Judging by his performances for West Ham whilst on loan, a lesser side may suit his actual ability with the greatest of respect.

That said he’s gone through 5 managers at Yernited, surely they all can’t be wrong?


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## RichA (Jul 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Judging by his performances for West Ham whilst on loan, a lesser side may suit his actual ability with the greatest of respect.

That said he’s gone through 5 managers at Yernited, surely they all can’t be wrong?
		
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Does that not say more about the 5 managers than any particular Man Utd player though?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2022)

RichA said:



			Does that not say more about the 5 managers than any particular Man Utd player though?
		
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Not for me. 

They all seen enough of him on the training pitch to not get him into a regular spot in a average Yernited side. We're not talking peak successful Yernited teams here.


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## 4LEX (Jul 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Judging by his performances for West Ham whilst on loan, a lesser side may suit his actual ability with the greatest of respect.

That said he’s gone through 5 managers at Yernited, surely they all can’t be wrong?
		
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To be fair he was very good for Utd under Mourinho. 

He's now a social media star first, footballer second. To unbalance the wage structure so much at a club like Forest is crazy.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2022)

4LEX said:



*To be fair he was very good for Utd under Mourinho.*

He's now a social media star first, footballer second. To unbalance the wage structure so much at a club like Forest is crazy.
		
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Was he?? I dont remember but i'll give way here.

Just had  a quick look at the stats and under JM he;

Played 107 games in all comps, 71 from a possible 114 of those were PL games.

He started less than 50 games

Scored 20 goals
Assisted 13 goals.
Averaged 54 minutes in all comps

I appreciate stats dont tell the true story though.

Forest must have a plan so if they go down his wages go accordingly.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Was he?? I dont remember but i'll give way here.

Just had  a quick look at the stats and under JM he;

Played 107 games in all comps, 71 from a possible 114 of those were PL games.

He started less than 50 games

Scored 20 goals
Assisted 13 goals.
Averaged 54 minutes in all comps

I appreciate stats dont tell the true story though.

Forest must have a plan so if they go down his wages go accordingly.
		
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It's a one year deal...

They go down they don't have to pay him full stop


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			It's a one year deal...

They go down they don't have to pay him full stop
		
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 Oh right, thats a bit strange....

I never seen the details of the deal, just that he'd signed a £180k a week deal.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Oh right, thats a bit strange....

I never seen the details of the deal, just that he'd signed a £180k a week deal.
		
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I did find the 1 year odd I would have just thought relegation release Clause but who knows 

Disappointed we didn't sign him we got the best of him but then will he ever have a spell like that again? I don't know 

Hated him before he came to us.. respected him when he left 

Good memories and better than I thought


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## Swingalot (Jul 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It makes the £150k per week we gave to Milner when Rodgers was there sound reasonable!!
		
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The same Milner who had won the PL with City and has since at Liverpool, along with a load of other trophys, who is one of the fittest, most dedicated players in the league, who has never courted controversy or the limelight and does not spend most of his time undermining managers or dancing on tik tok.....or Jesse Lingard? 

It's a shocking signing imo. He will start well no doubt, but the disruption he will cause in the dressing room will be unmesurable imo.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Oh right, thats a bit strange....

I never seen the details of the deal, just that he'd signed a £180k a week deal.
		
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Except it’s actually £80k per week plus bonuses. Don’t believe everything you read in the media 😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Except it’s actually £80k per week plus bonuses. Don’t believe everything you read in the media 😉
		
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Is this for Lingard ? There is no way he is only on £80k when West Ham were offering £160k


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is this for Lingard ? There is no way he is only on £80k when West Ham were offering £160k
		
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£80k is his basic. He can earn a lot more based on performance. There are a number of (reputable) sources directly from the club that have stated this. I believe he got a signing bonus as well (hence only 12 months rather than longer with clauses)

How sure are we that West Ham offered £160k? Or is it just what was reported by MailSport?

It could be that he wasn’t just money chasing after all? Nearer to his family in the North West, closer to his daughter (who Lives in the midlands)…not to mention a club with actual trophies in their cabinet 😉

He’s all but guaranteed to start in our midfield, not necessarily the case at West Ham.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 23, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			The same Milner who had won the PL with City and has since at Liverpool, along with a load of other trophys, who is one of the fittest, most dedicated players in the league, who has never courted controversy or the limelight and does not spend most of his time undermining managers or dancing on tik tok.....or Jesse Lingard?

It's a shocking signing imo. He will start well no doubt, but the disruption he will cause in the dressing room will be unmesurable imo.
		
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Interested to know who you would sign, given the fact we had to replace half our starting 11 because of loanees last season. Ideally with premier league experience as the core of the remaining squad is young with next to no experience in the top flight? 

“Shocking signing” 😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Interested to know who you would sign, given the fact we had to replace half our starting 11 because of loanees last season. Ideally with premier league experience as the core of the remaining squad is young with next to no experience in the top flight?

“Shocking signing” 😂😂
		
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I think he will suit you. I didn't like him when he signed for us I thought a man child.. overated

When he left I thought professional.. and decent player 

Now by professional I mean he hadn't been playing as much for man u but he had kept himself to a good standard of fitness .. 

He slotted into the team and brought us up a level . His passing was exceptional.. not just his goals but he was always willing to receive the ball in any area and would open up the attacks .. take the ball out of defence etc 

Tidy player and will suit a newly promoted team as you can build around him 

I would have had him back but at same time it's not end of world he didn't come if that makes sense 

Got on well with our players and wish him well


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 23, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550757608633532417
Surprisingly positive take from Talk Sport 😂

Basically sums up my thoughts. Plus the entire league is talking about it…good exposure for the club after being away for 23 years; which will generate some nice extra revenue.

Hopefully the stars will align and I’ll be able to somehow make West Ham at home in three weeks (despite having a newborn 😬), should have a bit of extra spice involved for the first home game back.


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## 4LEX (Jul 23, 2022)

Forest are a proper football club with more European Cups than all the London clubs combined. Every fan was glad to see you get back to the top tier (bar Derby). You were always going to get exposure esopecially as the atmosphere will be superb at the City Ground and having an up and coming manager.

Having a clown like 'J Lingz' overshadowing everything isn't needed. Only my opinion and it means nothing as what happens on the pitch counts. If you stay up it's a bargain, if you go down a disaster. Where do you reckon you'll finish?


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## RichA (Jul 23, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Forest are a proper football club with more European Cups than all the London clubs combined. Every fan was glad to see you get back to the top tier (bar Derby). You were always going to get exposure esopecially as the atmosphere will be superb at the City Ground and having an up and coming manager.

Having a clown like 'J Lingz' overshadowing everything isn't needed. Only my opinion and it means nothing as what happens on the pitch counts. If you stay up it's a bargain, if you go down a disaster. Where do you reckon you'll finish?
		
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Aren't we equal with Chelsea on 2. I think they're the only club south of Birmingham to win it.


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## RichA (Jul 23, 2022)

4LEX said:



			If you stay up it's a bargain, if you go down a disaster. Where do you reckon you'll finish?
		
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I'd settle for top 4.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 23, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Forest are a proper football club with more European Cups than all the London clubs combined. Every fan was glad to see you get back to the top tier (bar Derby). You were always going to get exposure esopecially as the atmosphere will be superb at the City Ground and having an up and coming manager.

Having a clown like 'J Lingz' overshadowing everything isn't needed. Only my opinion and it means nothing as what happens on the pitch counts. If you stay up it's a bargain, if you go down a disaster. Where do you reckon you'll finish?
		
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15th or 16th I think is achievable but if we get ‘good’ Lingard, and some of our other signings make an impact, I don’t think top 12 would be out of the question given the way Cooper plays and manages dressing rooms. I’ll enjoy the ride no matter what…23 years is a long time to wait  

I assume you’re a United fan? Given your distaste for Lingard?


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## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			15th or 16th I think is achievable but if we get ‘good’ Lingard, and some of our other signings make an impact, I don’t think top 12 would be out of the question given the way Cooper plays and manages dressing rooms. I’ll enjoy the ride no matter what…23 years is a long time to wait  

I assume you’re a United fan? Given your distaste for Lingard?
		
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Considering the last major trophy "United" one that they would actually class as a trophy (rather than second rate trophies but to average clubs would be brilliant) was the fa cup which lingard scored the winner you think a bit more gratitude would be displayed


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## pendodave (Jul 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Given your distaste for Lingard?
		
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I'm beginning to think that Lingard stole some lunch money, such is 4lex's dislike for the poor lad.

Nothing us certain in football, but I think that his time with West Ham would be a much more useful predictor of his form at Forest than whatever happened at Benighted.
He worked hard, and was a lively and intelligent contributor in a decent WHU team. Having a bit of quality can make a huge difference at the bottom of the table, and he definitely has it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 23, 2022)

Lingard is a decent player , he reminds me a bit of Richarlinson- the ego is better than their ability , believes their own hype. 

Lingard is certainly not the sort of player who will transform a team ,a one year deal at £180k seems madness , he is nearly 30 now , not a young kid. He had a little spell 5 years ago where he got about 8 goals in the Premiership and he lived off the back of it - he did ok at West Ham for a short spell

His social media has more substance than his football. He is the poster boy for the overrated English player


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## 4LEX (Jul 23, 2022)

RichA said:



			Aren't we equal with Chelsea on 2. I think they're the only club south of Birmingham to win it.
		
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That is true, the 2021 win had faded already like a lot of Covid titles.



RichA said:



			I'd settle for top 4.
		
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4th from bottom you mean 



Aztecs27 said:



			15th or 16th I think is achievable but if we get ‘good’ Lingard, and some of our other signings make an impact, I don’t think top 12 would be out of the question given the way Cooper plays and manages dressing rooms. I’ll enjoy the ride no matter what…23 years is a long time to wait 

*I assume you’re a United fan? Given your distaste for Lingard?*

Click to expand...

Not at all, I support a Championship side. I watch England home and away and simply don't rate Lingard at that level. He brings a freakshow to town with his gormless brother and being a big fish in a small pond like Forest will probably bring the worst out in him.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lingard is a decent player , he reminds me a bit of Richarlinson- the ego is better than their ability , believes their own hype.

Lingard is certainly not the sort of player who will transform a team ,a one year deal at £180k seems madness , he is nearly 30 now , not a young kid. He had a little spell 5 years ago where he got about 8 goals in the Premiership and he lived off the back of it - he did ok at West Ham for a short spell

His social media has more substance than his football. He is the poster boy for the overrated English player
		
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Just to clarify (again), he’s not getting £180k a week. If ( big if) he meets all his performance based targets (one of which, I’m told, is to keep us up), he will get close to that equivalent. 

He’s put himself in the shop window to try and secure a final long term contract with a high profile team (be it overseas or in the Prem) before he retires. We’ve facilitated this with zero risk except for the financial commitment for 12 months (which we are in the position to be able to afford) 

Him being in the squad does not make us a weaker team, so I’ve got no problem with them rolling the dice. I see a lot of people talking about how average Lingard is, but can’t offer up any other talented, available alternatives?
What he does off the field is of no concern to me, if he gives 100% on it.

Our CEO and head coach have not made rash decisions with any of their transfer targets in the last window or this one. With every single transfer They’ve done their due diligence and when teams have stuck ridiculous prices on players, they’ve walked away and looked elsewhere. I can’t see any reason they wouldn’t have been as thorough with Lingard. 

We were slated for spending £2m on Sam Surridge in January….written off as a failure at Bournemouth and Stoke…he did nothing but score goals and create chances and assists. 

Same with bringing in Keinan Davis on loan…slated again as he was deemed a bench warmer at Villa and he terrorised opposing defences until he got injured last season. 

Cooper took a team that was bottom of the table, that pundits had being relegated last September, to the Premier League in 8 months (the core of which was the exact same players). If anyone can get the best of out Lingard, Cooper is the man to do it.

If it works, we stay up and can build on that next season. If it fails, we both move on and we start again in the Championship. As I said, I’m going to enjoy every bit of the ride, as nothing is certain. 



4LEX said:



*Not at all, I support a Championship side.* I watch England home and away and simply don't rate Lingard at that level. He brings a freakshow to town with his gormless brother and being a big fish in a small pond like Forest will probably bring the worst out in him.
		
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Ah, that must mean you’re a salty Huddersfield fan then 😉
Championship will be an entertaining watch again this season. My friend is a Bristol City hospitality SC holder, so I tag along to games when I can (as I live in the SW now), mostly for the free food. So I’ll be keeping an eye on it. I’m glad I don’t have to suffer through EFL on Quest any more though.


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## Skytot (Jul 24, 2022)

Haaland scored the winner on his debut ..


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 24, 2022)

Are we judging players on field based on their off field Instagram posts now? I'm clearly missing a trick in my player scouting and assessment as I am not on either Instagram or Twitter, apparently another reliable sour‍ce 🤷‍♂️.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 24, 2022)

4LEX said:



			That is true, the 2021 win had faded already like a lot of Covid titles.



4th from bottom you mean 



*Not at all, I support a Championship side. I watch England home and away *and simply don't rate Lingard at that level. He brings a freakshow to town with his gormless brother and being a big fish in a small pond like Forest will probably bring the worst out in him.
		
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Out of curiousity whose your team?


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## fundy (Jul 24, 2022)

Uh oh, we win the Florida Cup and our fan base are having a "Spurs" close season lol


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 24, 2022)

This thread nails the whole feeling surrounding the Lingard saga…


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551125056817872896


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## Stuart_C (Jul 24, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			This thread nails the whole feeling surrounding the Lingard saga…


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551125056817872896

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Rooney, The race card, its only missing his charity work for the hatrick🙄

Criticism of a players ability/attitude based on previous is allowed. There's nothing sinister in it


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			This thread nails the whole feeling surrounding the Lingard saga…


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551125056817872896

Click to expand...

When did Lingard become such a national treasure that means people can’t be critical of him as a player and indeed how he acts in the public domain.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did Lingard become such a national treasure that means people can’t be critical of him as a player and indeed how he acts in the public domain.
		
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He didn’t, but the slating he’s getting seems a bit OTT. Anyone would think he’d murdered one of Richard Keys’ family, the state he’s getting himself in over it. 

Man signs for a premier league club. It’s a non-story.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			He didn’t, but the slating he’s getting seems a bit OTT. Anyone would think he’d murdered one of Richard Keys’ family, the state he’s getting himself in over it.

Man signs for a premier league club. It’s a non-story.
		
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Is it really OTT ? 

The player himself is very much out there on social media , maybe for some too vocal - for some he acts like a world star on social media when in reality he is just a decent Prem player- what’s he calling himself - “Jlingz” - so yes people will react to him


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it really OTT ?

The player himself is very much out there on social media , maybe for some too vocal - for some he acts like a world star on social media when in reality he is just a decent Prem player- what’s he calling himself - “Jlingz” - so yes people will react to him
		
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If you’re asking me whether getting your knickers in a twist over a player not even linked to your club, because he refers to himself as ‘JLingz’ (which just so happens to be the name of his clothing brand, so is just self promotion) , and because he does a few TikTok’s and snapchats, then yes, I’d say that’s over reacting.

Some on social media are crying like it’s their money that’s paying his wages 😂

I could understand if it was Forest fans who were upset, but these are fans from other clubs; where this business will not affect them directly in the slightest 🥴. I find it all very odd.

Would everyone have over reacted if he’d gone to West Ham like everyone predicted?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			If you’re asking me whether getting your knickers in a twist over a player not even linked to your club, because he refers to himself as ‘JLingz’ (which just so happens to be the name of his clothing brand, so is just self promotion) , and because he does a few TikTok’s and snapchats, then yes, I’d say that’s over reacting.

Some on social media are crying like it’s their money that’s paying his wages 😂

I could understand if it was Forest fans who were upset, but these are fans from other clubs; where this business will not affect them directly in the slightest 🥴. I find it all very odd.

Would everyone have over reacted if he’d gone to West Ham like everyone predicted?
		
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I’m not sure what the issue is ? 

I don’t see anyone overreacting but you’re being rather precious about how people are judging him 

All I have said is that his is a decent Prem player , appears to have an overinflated ego about his ability ( same with Richarlinson ) and the guy acts like he is a world star on social media 

You would think that Forest had signed Messi with the reactions - but it’s just a Lingard at the end of the day and he has prob found his leve.


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## fundy (Jul 24, 2022)

Please, just let the season start lol


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m not sure what the issue is ?

I don’t see anyone overreacting but you’re being rather precious about how people are judging him

All I have said is that his is a decent Prem player , appears to have an overinflated ego about his ability ( same with Richarlinson ) and the guy acts like he is a world star on social media

You would think that Forest had signed Messi with the reactions - but it’s just a Lingard at the end of the day and he has prob found his leve.
		
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I have no issue at all, just pointing out that there seems to be a massive over reaction to us signing him. After 23 years out of the premier league, Lingard is a ‘big’ signing for Forest. We are under no illusion that we need fire power, creativity, experience and depth to survive in this league; Lingard *could* provide that. If he doesn’t, we’ve not lost much, and we’ll be in the same position we were at the start of last season. If he does, we stay up and are in a great position to push on. But some act like Forest aren’t a big enough club to sign him.

I’m not really a massive social media user outside of Twitter, so I don’t really get all of that backlash, as I don’t see it. But as long as he performs on the pitch and fits in with the squad, how he portrays himself outside of football is his own business (quite literally).

The only thing I’m defending is the business decision to sign him. I’d be less happy if we’d signed him on a multi year deal but the deal we’ve made makes sense for both sides (to me at least)


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## Stuart_C (Jul 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			Please, just let the season start lol
		
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I hope you've sorted a new comfy armchair for the new season😁😉


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## Stuart_C (Jul 24, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			I have no issue at all, just pointing out that there seems to be a massive over reaction to us signing him. After 23 years out of the premier league, Lingard is a ‘big’ signing for Forest. We are under no illusion that we need fire power, creativity, experience and depth to survive in this league; Lingard *could* provide that. If he doesn’t, we’ve not lost much, and we’ll be in the same position we were at the start of last season. If he does, we stay up and are in a great position to push on. But some act like Forest aren’t a big enough club to sign him.

I’m not really a massive social media user outside of Twitter, so I don’t really get all of that backlash, as I don’t see it. But as long as he performs on the pitch and fits in with the squad, how he portrays himself outside of football is his own business (quite literally).

The only thing I’m defending is the business decision to sign him. I’d be less happy if we’d signed him on a multi year deal but the deal we’ve made makes sense for both sides (to me at least)
		
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Not many have overreacted. 

The reported £180k is the biggest talking point. As you've stated its actually £80k with a load of bonuses inc. I think that style of contract should be the norm in football generally.

Enjoy the PL ride Jonathon.


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## fundy (Jul 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope you've sorted a new comfy armchair for the new season😁😉
		
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Plenty for me these days, did my share of cold plastic seats years ago


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			I have no issue at all, just pointing out that there seems to be a massive over reaction to us signing him. After 23 years out of the premier league, Lingard is a ‘big’ signing for Forest. We are under no illusion that we need fire power, creativity, experience and depth to survive in this league; Lingard *could* provide that. If he doesn’t, we’ve not lost much, and we’ll be in the same position we were at the start of last season. If he does, we stay up and are in a great position to push on. But some act like Forest aren’t a big enough club to sign him.

I’m not really a massive social media user outside of Twitter, so I don’t really get all of that backlash, as I don’t see it. But as long as he performs on the pitch and fits in with the squad, how he portrays himself outside of football is his own business (quite literally).

The only thing I’m defending is the business decision to sign him. I’d be less happy if we’d signed him on a multi year deal but the deal we’ve made makes sense for both sides (to me at least)
		
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I haven’t really seen any overreacting - a lot were talking about his wages and the reports of £200k etc and turning down £160k etc from West Ham 

Signing a year contract imo seems like someone who is looking to get something bigger but guess he will need to earn that. 

I think the biggest issue will be his attitude and how he reacts when it’s a battle. Cooper is a good manager and I hope he keeps him in checkn


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## Tashyboy (Jul 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope you've sorted a new comfy armchair for the new season😁😉
		
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Stu, did you manage to sort a ticket for the community shield.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Stu, did you manage to sort a ticket for the community shield.
		
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Not yet Tashy, me and the boy are 9448 on the waiting list🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Jul 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			Plenty for me these days, did my share of cold plastic seats years ago 

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Arent they all padded at the Emirates now?😁😁


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## Tashyboy (Jul 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Not yet Tashy, me and the boy are 9448 on the waiting list🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️
		
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My lad got one for himself then heard on the grapevine there were some Left so he got two more behind Pep. Him
And grandson are having them and I am having his original seat. Will be an interesting start to the season. Cannot see me going to many games this season though.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			My lad got one for himself then heard on the grapevine there were some Left so he got two more behind Pep. Him
*And grandson are having them *and I am having his original seat. Will be an interesting start to the season. Cannot see me going to many games this season though.
		
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When I’m telly clapping I’ll keep an eye out for him, I hope he has a tash aswell?😀

It’s not how you start, it’s how you finish😉


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## fundy (Jul 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Arent they all padded at the Emirates now?😁😁
		
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dunno not been, still protesting them leaving the original Library


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## Stuart_C (Jul 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			dunno not been, still protesting them leaving the original Library 

Click to expand...

Wow thats some protest, well played👏👏


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## Slime (Jul 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



*When I’m telly clapping *I’ll keep an eye out for him, I hope he has a tash aswell?😀

It’s not how you start, it’s how you finish😉
		
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When you're telly clapping, I hope you feel dirty ........................... just like the rest of us. 
Oh, and don't forget, your opinions won't count for squat!


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## Stuart_C (Jul 24, 2022)

Slime said:



			When you're telly clapping, I hope you feel dirty ........................... just like the rest of us. 
Oh, and don't forget, your opinions won't count for squat! 

Click to expand...

Pre season friendlies don't count👍


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			dunno not been, still protesting them leaving the original Library 

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Can I have your opinions on Aaron Ramsey from an Arsenal perspective? It’s looking likely we’re signing him. I know he’s had injury issues but he always looked too drawer whenever I’ve seen him


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## Orikoru (Jul 25, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Can I have your opinions on Aaron Ramsey from an Arsenal perspective? It’s looking likely we’re signing him. I know he’s had injury issues but he always looked too drawer whenever I’ve seen him
		
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Can he still walk unaided??


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 25, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Can I have your opinions on Aaron Ramsey from an Arsenal perspective? It’s looking likely we’re signing him. I know he’s had injury issues but he always looked too drawer whenever I’ve seen him
		
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You have asked @fundy so I am aware I  am jumping in a little. I was talking about Ramsey with my son at the weekend, class player, available. The key is surely what the deal is. You pretty much want him on a pay and play deal, heavily incentivised. His injury record is so poor now that to offer him a regular contract would be very poor business, imo. If he drops his wages, massively, and takes on pay and play then I think he will be smart business for you. As much as for around the dressing room, training, leadership on the pitch.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You have asked @fundy so I am aware I  am jumping in a little. I was talking about Ramsey with my son at the weekend, class player, available. The key is surely what the deal is. You pretty much want him on a pay and play deal, heavily incentivised. His injury record is so poor now that to offer him a regular contract would be very poor business, imo. If he drops his wages, massively, and takes on pay and play then I think he will be smart business for you. As much as for around the dressing room, training, leadership on the pitch.
		
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This is essentially what they’ve done with Lingard (low basic that’s heavily incentivised), so I don’t see why it would be any different for someone like Ramsey. I can guarantee they won’t be paying him 300 thousand euros a week that he was on at Juve 😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Jul 25, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			This is essentially what they’ve done with Lingard (low basic that’s heavily incentivised), so I don’t see why it would be any different for someone like Ramsey. I can guarantee they won’t be paying him 300 thousand euros a week that he was on at Juve 😂😂
		
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Will Ramsey get the same volume of criticism as Lingard I wonder? Does he have a tiktok account?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Will Ramsey get the same volume of criticism as Lingard I wonder? Does he have a tiktok account?
		
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obviously not, he’s white 🙄🙄


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## fundy (Jul 25, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Can I have your opinions on Aaron Ramsey from an Arsenal perspective? It’s looking likely we’re signing him. I know he’s had injury issues but he always looked too drawer whenever I’ve seen him
		
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Utterly gutted the way he was allowed to leave Arsenal (on a free too) was utterly top class on his day, struggled to regain his very best post injuries. Good attacking midfielder and scored goals when it really mattered a lot. But dont let him take penalties whatever you do!

If hes motivated and fully fit he'll be decent for you (albeit expect him and Lingaard may want to be in the same role/space)


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## Swango1980 (Jul 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			obviously not, he’s white 🙄🙄
		
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I'm sure some will look to make that argument.

I always see another factor in his case (and the likes of Sterling). Who are the biggest supported clubs in the UK - Man Utd and Liverpool. And they hate each other, and many other fans hate them. So, it is rare that any player that plays for either club gets a lot of love from other fans, especially from the opposing, hugely supported, rival club. Then, they do something that their own fans do not like (in Sterling's case, leave Liverpool, in Lingard's case, just generally not be good enough to get into a rubbish side). At that point, the easy option for most fans is to simply slate them (except for the fans of the club they end up with), and it is probably easiest for media outlets to dig the knife and sensationalise the general view of most fans. Harder for media to be really positive about that player when most of their readers / watchers want to read negative opinions on them. It's only easy to be positive when that player does something much better than average, at which point the media can write positive articles centred around the "back against the wall" scenario and underdog scenario.

I reckon playing for Liverpool or Man Utd can actually be a curse for many players (relative of course, I am not comparing footballers to the non-footballers, such as underpaid NHS staff), unless they really stand out and get the love of their own supporters (and maybe even England supporters).


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Will Ramsey get the same volume of criticism as Lingard I wonder? Does he have a tiktok account?
		
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Of course he won't - because he doesn't have a TikTok account or refer to himself as "A-Ramz" (probably )...but both signings are essentially the same level of risk/reward.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			Utterly gutted the way he was allowed to leave Arsenal (on a free too) was utterly top class on his day, struggled to regain his very best post injuries. Good attacking midfielder and scored goals when it really mattered a lot. But dont let him take penalties whatever you do!

If hes motivated and fully fit he'll be decent for you (albeit expect him and Lingaard may want to be in the same role/space)
		
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The same reaction most of my arsenal supporting friends are giving, so that's encouraging! Fitness is a concern, obviously; but as has been mentioned, the right wage structure and incentives could really help it into another nice move.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 25, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62293635

Good to see, both for pitch invasions and people setting off flares.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62293635

Good to see, both for pitch invasions and people setting off flares.
		
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Great news. I get that most people don't cause an issue and it's probably a great memory, but it's stupid and it's going to end up with one or more fans and/or footballers being seriously injured long term if it carries on.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 25, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Great news. I get that most people don't cause an issue and it's probably a great memory, but it's stupid and it's going to end up with one or more fans and/or footballers being seriously injured long term if it carries on.
		
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It got very bad at the end of last season and they needed to do something to set down a line in the sand for this season early on. This is nice and clear, over to Darwinism now


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It got very bad at the end of last season and they needed to do something to set down a line in the sand for this season early on. This is nice and clear, over to Darwinism now 

Click to expand...

Indeed. The absolute knobber that blind sided King Billy at the end of the Forest/Blades playoff game is exactly what the game doesn't need. The Sheffield United players weren't without incident either (McBurnie in particular), but it's more dangerous for the players, given the number of fans. Luckily the chap who body checked Billy Sharp was found and handed a lifetime ban from the City Ground days later - but it's good that this is now universal.


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## 3offTheTee (Jul 25, 2022)

Talking this morning to a guys that plays with us at golf, just joined our Club, played @Jumarih(spelling) and a bit full of himself. He is a big Man U fan, head covers, etc and said he wished Man U would sign  De Jong. 

I replied that they have not the pulling power of 10/15 years’ ago and player’s want Champions League Football to which he replied they had last season.

I did not try and explain that is in the past and walked away.

I do not support them but have ‘Yer United” Stu C take note the pulling power of the past?


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## Billysboots (Jul 25, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Talking this morning to a guys that plays with us at golf, just joined our Club, played @Jumarih(spelling) and a bit full of himself. He is a big Man U fan, head covers, etc and said he wished Man U would sign  De Jong. 

I replied that they have not the pulling power of 10/15 years’ ago and player’s want Champions League Football to which he replied they had last season.

I did not try and explain that is in the past and walked away.

I do not support them but have ‘Yer United” Stu C take note the pulling power of the past?
		
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That’s the problem with a sport which demands instant success - the players themselves want instant rewards.

What is wrong with joining a club which is at the start of a new journey? I happen to think with the signings of Eriksen and Martinez, if de Jong was also to jump on board United have every chance of a top four finish next season.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 25, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Talking this morning to a guys that plays with us at golf, just joined our Club, played @Jumarih(spelling) and a bit full of himself. He is a big Man U fan, head covers, etc and said he wished Man U would sign  De Jong. 

I replied that they have not the pulling power of 10/15 years’ ago and player’s want Champions League Football to which he replied they had last season.

I did not try and explain that is in the past and walked away.

I do not support them but have ‘Yer United” Stu C take note the pulling power of the past?
		
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It depends on the ambitions of the player (and forgetting personal preferences on things like what country they want to live in).

If you are at the peak of your career, or at end of it, then there may well be the desire to play in the Champions League. Fair enough 

However, joining a club like Man Utd already puts you in a club with huge global following and sponsors. Champions League or not. There are not many clubs that offer that. No disrespect to Spurs, for example, but if a player joined Spurs they'd be in Champions League, yet if they joined Man Utd they become much more recognised globally. In my opinion.

So, joining a club like Man Utd is still going to be an attractive prospect to many good players. It also offers them a chance to, hopefully, go on a journey on the up. If it goes well, they could be heroes in the history of the club. They'd also get well paid.

There are a lot of decent players out there. They can't all sign for City and Liverpool. At any rate, the key signing by an absolute million miles is the manager. Hoping this appointment works out well, improves the playing style and builds on that by attracting the right players. Players that genuinely want to be there.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 25, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Talking this morning to a guys that plays with us at golf, just joined our Club, played @Jumarih(spelling) and a bit full of himself. He is a big Man U fan, head covers, etc and said he wished Man U would sign  De Jong.

I replied that they have not the pulling power of 10/15 years’ ago and player’s want Champions League Football to which he replied they had last season.

I did not try and explain that is in the past and walked away.

I do not support them but have ‘Yer United” Stu C take note the pulling power of the past?
		
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Yernited are still globally a massive club.

They're miles away from having a team that can match their standing in world football.

It will take more than 3 marquee signings to get them back to where they once were 10+yrs ago.

Ten Haag needs time. 3 seasons should be the least he gets. They will have good wins/bad loses along the way, the board, fans and staff all need to be patient though.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 25, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			That’s the problem with a sport which demands instant success - the players themselves want instant rewards.

What is wrong with joining a club which is at the start of a new journey?* I happen to think with the signings of Eriksen and Martinez, if de Jong was also to jump on board United have every chance of a top four finish next season.*

Click to expand...

I admire your optimism but seeing the last 18 months of this current yernited squad, you need more than just 3 players.

With the amount of games crammed in  the calendar upto November and the start of the World Cup, ten Haag wont have had had enough time on the training ground to get his ideas bedded in.

City,Liverpool, Spurs,Chelsea and Arsenal all have a proper playing structure in place which takes time.


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## Billysboots (Jul 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yernited are still globally a massive club.

They're miles away from having a team that can match their standing in world football.

It will take more than 3 marquee signings to get them back to where they once were 10+yrs ago.

Ten Haag needs time. 3 seasons should be the least he gets. They will have good wins/bad loses along the way, the board, fans and staff all need to be patient though.
		
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I’ve been happy to give all of the post Ferguson managers time, Stu, providing there has been some tangible improvement, but we have just lurched from crisis to crisis.

Whilst accepting that much of that has to do with the total absence of a footballing structure above the manager, equally there has been no clear style of play, no plan and no vision. The buck for that stops with the managers.

I really like what I am seeing from Ten Haag. He strikes me as a real no nonsense kind of fella, with a clear idea of what he wants from his players. I also suspect the delay in his appointment being confirmed may well have been due, at least in part, to him setting out his own expectations.

Time will tell, but I feel more positive than I have done for some time that the club might, at long last, have a plan. If there is clear evidence of that plan, in terms of performance (not necessarily just results) AND incomings and outgoings of players, then I’m happy to give the manager time.

EDIT: We were posting at the same time. I agree more than three players are needed, but some already there may effectively perform like new signings - Sancho being the obvious example. Rome wasn’t built in a day.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2022)

Gutted that our curse with injuries has struck again. 

30 million new defender Aguerd  injured in the game against rangers.. never just a knock these days .. straight down for an op on his ankle.. 

Ogbonna still missing last season (against liverpool where he did his ACL, he slowly working back.. playing for under 23s atm to get fitness)

Dawson is injured for a few weeks

so going into the season we have

Zouma and Diop. 

Diop also wanted out because he knows once everyone fit he will be 5th choice lol

the joys

but on the bright side new striker Gianluca Scamacca should be signed today or tomorrow 

still need a LB at least and now prob another CB to replace Diop if the fulham rumours are true


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 26, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551589390849294336
Neymar embarrassing himself again in friendlies this time


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## Billysboots (Jul 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551589390849294336
Neymar embarrassing himself again in friendlies this time
		
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Can’t stand the man. For all the undoubted talent his antics are beyond embarrassing. I know most do it to some extent, but he takes it to a new level.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551589390849294336
Neymar embarrassing himself again in friendlies this time
		
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Commentator seemed convinced.
What was the refs decision.?
Maybe a trial period !
Blatant diving in the area to get a pen should be a red that would stop it as yellow hasn’t.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Commentator seemed convinced.
What was the refs decision.?
Maybe a trial period !
Blatant diving in the area to get a pen should be a red that would stop it as yellow hasn’t.
		
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You'd think public perception would have, to some extent, help put a stop to it. After all, type in Neymar into Google, and top of the list are lots of headlines of the media mocking him for his dive, and sharing the ridicule he is getting on social media. That cannot be good for his reputation. It cannot be good for PSG's reputation, so you'd think they'd ask their players to stop being morons. Not good for the French League either, or the Brazilian national team. When such a high profile players does that, it makes anyone or any organisation he is associated with look like idiots. Surely his sponsors don't like it, unless he has signed up for Speedos for Olympic divers.

The issue is, Neymar himself has no shame. It is players like him that many ridicule PSG and don't take them seriously. Style, no substance. It is also why, despite his technical ability, it is likely that most of the best / richest teams in the world wouldn't want him. As a United fan, I wouldn't want him at the club. I guess most other club fans from the top clubs may feel the same. 

I do think some sort of ban for absolutely clear dives and feigning injury would be a good idea (would have to be extremely clear though, as sometime innocuous contact can actually be bloody painful, or make a player fall hard just based on upsetting their balance at pace). However, the damage to his legacy is always going to be much worse. Love or hate their clubs, most fans still have the upmost respect for the likes of Gerrard, Keane, Scholes, Henry, Zidane, etc because of their ability as a player. I think many will remember Neymar as a drama queen and a show pony.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Commentator seemed convinced.
What was the refs decision.?
Maybe a trial period !
*Blatant diving in the area to get a pen should be a red that would stop it as yellow hasn’t.*

Click to expand...

I think it's difficult to prove conclusively. We've seen in the past people booked for diving incorrectly because the ref hasn't seen the contact from the correct angle. Even on this one, he's certainly made a meal of it, but the replay angle doesn't actually show you if there's contact or not. It looks like he may have caught the bottom of Neymar's shin with his toe. Of course not enough to warrant that reaction, but if he has made contact, you're not going to be able to send off the attacker for going down are you? That would be mad. It would only be if the replay shows extremely clearly that there was no contact whatsoever - and to be honest not many people are outright diving with zero contact so it would be very rare.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think it's difficult to prove conclusively. We've seen in the past people booked for diving incorrectly because the ref hasn't seen the contact from the correct angle. Even on this one, he's certainly made a meal of it, but the replay angle doesn't actually show you if there's contact or not. It looks like he may have caught the bottom of Neymar's shin with his toe. Of course not enough to warrant that reaction, but if he has made contact, you're not going to be able to send off the attacker for going down are you? That would be mad. It would only be if the replay shows extremely clearly that there was no contact whatsoever - and to be honest not many people are outright diving with zero contact so it would be very rare.
		
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You are just worried about losing Richarlison and Kane for half the season if it was brought in


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are just worried about losing Richarlison and Kane for half the season if it was brought in 

Click to expand...

I've never seen Kane outright dive without any contact - that's really the comment I was making. Football have created this climate where it's ok to go down under minimal contact, so unless the replay clearly shows there was none, I can't see red cards ever being handed out.

Even over and above that, I remember Bale playing for us back in the day, some thug such as Charlie Adam would come flying in and he would jump out of the way and hit the deck. No contact but he's had to leap over him to save his ankles getting broken - and people used to say that was a dive like he's meant to take a six month injury for the sake of one free kick 40 yards out.   There doesn't even _need_ to be contact for it to be a foul.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I've never seen Kane outright dive without any contact - that's really the comment I was making. Football have created this climate where it's ok to go down under minimal contact, so unless the replay clearly shows there was none, I can't see red cards ever being handed out.

Even over and above that, I remember Bale playing for us back in the day, some thug such as Charlie Adam would come flying in and he would jump out of the way and hit the deck. No contact but he's had to leap over him to save his ankles getting broken - and people used to say that was a dive like he's meant to take a six month injury for the sake of one free kick 40 yards out.   There doesn't even _need_ to be contact for it to be a foul.
		
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I agree with your last point and I think refs are getting better at that. The 'reckless' tackle is gradually being eliminated.

In terms Kane not doing an outright dive . Mmmmm. As with a number of rules, things can change if they want to. I remember the outrage from old school attackers who stated you couldn't jump without swinging your arms, often elbowing someone in the face. They managed after a few red cards, well apart from Andy Carroll . They would soon get the message after a few reds, it might reduce the 'I felt a touch', 'they are entitled to go down' as well.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I agree with your last point and I think refs are getting better at that. The 'reckless' tackle is gradually being eliminated.

In terms Kane not doing an outright dive . Mmmmm. As with a number of rules, things can change if they want to. I remember the outrage from old school attackers who stated you couldn't jump without swinging your arms, often elbowing someone in the face. They managed after a few red cards, well apart from Andy Carroll . They would soon get the message after a few reds, it might reduce the 'I felt a touch', 'they are entitled to go down' as well.
		
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It depends what you call diving, I don't call it diving if there's contact, but if you don't agree with that statement then yes you'll say he's dived lots of times. I'm still not wholly against it, if you can do a bit of skill and the defender has a little kick at you, winning a penalty is as good as an assist at the end of the day. I see it as clever. Totally different to just throwing yourself without contact, there's no skill in that.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It depends what you call diving, I don't call it diving if there's contact, but if you don't agree with that statement then yes you'll say he's dived lots of times. I'm still not wholly against it, if you can do a bit of skill and the defender has a little kick at you, winning a penalty is as good as an assist at the end of the day. I see it as clever. Totally different to just throwing yourself without contact, there's no skill in that.
		
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We definitely do not agree there. Degrees of cheating or just cheating? I can see why you wouldn't want a red card rule brought in then.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We definitely do not agree there. Degrees of cheating or just cheating? I can see why you wouldn't want a red card rule brought in then.
		
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If you go past a defender and he kicks your shin, that's a foul, no? Or is it dependant on how hard he kicks you?


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We definitely do not agree there. Degrees of cheating or just cheating? I can see why you wouldn't want a red card rule brought in then.
		
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You’re barking up the wrong tree. Kane is immune from criticism for his diving from all Spurs fans and some because he’s Englands captain.
Anyone who thinks there as contact on Neymar and he was justified in his blatant dive, needs to think again on their thinking of tackles and the game


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			If you go past a defender and he kicks your shin, that's a foul, no? Or is it dependant on how hard he kicks you?
		
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It can be a foul and a dive. If the defender kicks the attacker it's a foul. If the contact isn't enough to take the player down but he throws himself to the floor anyway then it's a dive. The ref should book the defender for the foul and award a penalty and then book the attacker for the dive.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			If you go past a defender and he kicks your shin, that's a foul, no? Or is it dependant on how hard he kicks you?
		
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Is football a contact sport? 

We are not talking about kicking a shin here, we are talking about brushing against someone. Is the contact enough to interfere with you or is it just contact? You play don't you, surely you know the difference.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It depends what you call diving,* I don't call it diving if there's contact*, but if you don't agree with that statement then yes you'll say he's dived lots of times. I'm still not wholly against it, if you can do a bit of skill and the defender has a little kick at you, winning a penalty is as good as an assist at the end of the day. I see it as clever. Totally different to just throwing yourself without contact, there's no skill in that.
		
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That is one of the issues.

Football is still, essentially, a contact sport.

So, there can be contact and it being absolutely no foul. Whether that be a slight brushing of bodies as one player tries to get tight to another, or a player tries to roll his opponent, etc. There will be countless scenarios where there is contact, but nobody having any doubt there is no foul. Therefore, if a player is to fall down dramatically, it is a dive. A common one is a defender trying to shield a ball out of play deep in their own half. They are clearly waiting for contact, and as soon as there is the lightest of light touches, they flip themselves over. It is pretty clear the touch has not caused them to fall (unless the attacker has gone in too hard), and therefore they've intentionally thrown themselves to the ground, which will fit the definition of a dive for most. Sadly, the referees have allowed this for years, and nearly always give a free kick to the defender.

However, there can be no contact and it would be a foul, as you've already discussed. I mentioned before, in his 1st tenure at Utd Ronaldo was clean through on goal. He knocked it past the keeper and tried to get past him as he flew out at him. Kepper missed the ball as it went past, and Ronaldo had to jump about 4 foot in the air just to avoid a heavy contact. On landing he fell over, whereas if he had been able to stay on his feet he'd have a tap in. Goalkeepers are an over-protected species anyway, so no penalty was given. However, Ronaldo was given a yellow for diving. Inexplicably, some pundits (guys who have played the game, so they know best, right?) tried to justify this by the whole "no contact" cliche. I can imagine one of these ex referee pundits would probably try to do the same. However, a player can easily lose their balance when successfully avoiding contact from another player. No intention to fall over, and therefore shouldn't be classed a dive.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			It can be a foul and a dive. If the defender kicks the attacker it's a foul. If the contact isn't enough to take the player down but he throws himself to the floor anyway then it's a dive. The ref should book the defender for the foul and award a penalty and then book the attacker for the dive.
		
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That's interesting and I wouldn't be against that at all. 



Lord Tyrion said:



			Is football a contact sport?

We are not talking about kicking a shin here, we are talking about brushing against someone. Is the contact enough to interfere with you or is it just contact? You play don't you, surely you know the difference.
		
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I'm not claiming someone should go down from a shoulder barge, they are not fouls. I'm talking about going past them and getting clipped. In that scenario it doesn't take much to trip someone if they're running at speed.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That is one of the issues.

Football is still, essentially, a contact sport.

So, there can be contact and it being absolutely no foul. Whether that be a slight brushing of bodies as one player tries to get tight to another, or a player tries to roll his opponent, etc. There will be countless scenarios where there is contact, but nobody having any doubt there is no foul. Therefore, if a player is to fall down dramatically, it is a dive. A common one is a defender trying to shield a ball out of play deep in their own half. They are clearly waiting for contact, and as soon as there is the lightest of light touches, they flip themselves over. It is pretty clear the touch has not caused them to fall (unless the attacker has gone in too hard), and therefore they've intentionally thrown themselves to the ground, which will fit the definition of a dive for most. Sadly, the referees have allowed this for years, and nearly always give a free kick to the defender.

However, there can be no contact and it would be a foul, as you've already discussed. I mentioned before, in his 1st tenure at Utd Ronaldo was clean through on goal. He knocked it past the keeper and tried to get past him as he flew out at him. Kepper missed the ball as it went past, and Ronaldo had to jump about 4 foot in the air just to avoid a heavy contact. On landing he fell over, whereas if he had been able to stay on his feet he'd have a tap in. Goalkeepers are an over-protected species anyway, so no penalty was given. However, Ronaldo was given a yellow for diving. Inexplicably, some pundits (guys who have played the game, so they know best, right?) tried to justify this by the whole "no contact" cliche. I can imagine one of these ex referee pundits would probably try to do the same. However, a player can easily lose their balance when successfully avoiding contact from another player. No intention to fall over, and therefore shouldn't be classed a dive.
		
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Sorry for not being clear, but when I talk about going down under contact I'm on about attempts at a tackle that clip the shin/ankle/foot etc. Not just going to shoulder to shoulder which shouldn't be a foul unless there's full use of the arm. But if you stick a foot in or go to ground, contact the player and get nothing on the ball, more often than not that's a foul.

Agree with the second point, just as I said about Bale. It is contextual.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm not claiming someone should go down from a shoulder barge, they are not fouls. *I'm talking about going past them and getting clipped*. In that scenario it doesn't take much to trip someone if they're running at speed.
		
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That's a different beastie altogether. I agree with that. If you are clipped then you will fall, that's a foul. The faster you are running the less contact you need to knock you over. I'm talking about feeling contact and going down. Add in the player that leaves their leg out to catch a defender when by running normally they would be past them. None of it is rocket science.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's a different beastie altogether. I agree with that. If you are clipped then you will fall, that's a foul. The faster you are running the less contact you need to knock you over. I'm talking about feeling contact and going down. Add in the player that leaves their leg out to catch a defender when by running normally they would be past them. None of it is rocket science.
		
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Yeah, there are subtle nuances between all though, and VAR was supposed to help us identify, but it hasn't really. In many ways watching a slowed down replay actually make it harder to tell as it can look more like a dive without the original speed taken into account. The only thing it should be able to tell you, if you have enough camera angles, is when there's no contact at all and no valid reason for the player to go down. 

I'm not defending the Neymar one too much - one thing I don't like is the additional acting of lying on the ground pretending it hurt a lot more than it did. I'd have slightly more respect if he just got up having achieved the outcome he wanted. But I would like to see it from more angles, as I suspect there was very slight contact from the defender on the bottom of his shin that you can't really see from the video that was posted. As soon as he slid to ground while Neymar had full control of the ball he was asking for trouble, it's an awful decision to do that when you know who you're up against. Yes Neymar is a complete see you next Tuesday, but the ref still has to give a pen if you slid in and catch him in the box - so don't do it?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



_*I've never seen Kane outright dive without any contact*_ - that's really the comment I was making. *Football have created this climate where it's ok to go down under minimal contact*, so unless the replay clearly shows there was none, I can't see red cards ever being handed out.

Even over and above that, I remember Bale playing for us back in the day, some thug such as Charlie Adam would come flying in and he would jump out of the way and hit the deck. No contact but he's had to leap over him to save his ankles getting broken - and people used to say that was a dive like he's meant to take a six month injury for the sake of one free kick 40 yards out.   There doesn't even _need_ to be contact for it to be a foul.
		
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I've got a voucher you can have for a free eyetest at your nearest specsavers opticians😉

And this is where football has failed for me. Pundits,analysts, ex players, managers etc  have all pedalled this narrative of " there was contact and xxxxx player had every right to go down" rubbish.

That has to stop in world football.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



I've got a voucher you can have for a free eyetest at your nearest specsavers opticians😉

And this is where football has failed for me. Pundits,analysts, ex players, managers etc  have all pedalled this narrative of " there was contact and xxxxx player had every right to go down" rubbish.

That has to stop in world football.

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I liked @ColchesterFC 's suggestion and I think that's the only way to do it. If you simply starting throwing out cards for 'dives' then we go back to a world where defenders are putting in awful tackles and getting away with it. You need to still punish the bad tackle but also punish the forward if their reaction was way over the top. 

To clarify again, Kane goes down and wins penalties for sure, but there is always some level of contact from the defender. If there wasn't he wouldn't get the decision.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I liked @ColchesterFC 's suggestion and I think that's the only way to do it. If you simply starting throwing out cards for 'dives' then we go back to a world where defenders are putting in awful tackles and getting away with it. You need to still punish the bad tackle but also punish the forward if their reaction was way over the top.

To clarify again, Kane goes down and wins penalties for sure, but there is always some level of contact from the defender. If there wasn't he wouldn't get the decision.
		
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You didnt have to clarify, i was only winding you up hance the wink.

Do you really believe the last line?🤔🤔

Infact dont answer it because it'll only end up tit for tat.


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## Fade and Die (Jul 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Gutted that our curse with injuries has struck again.

30 million new defender Aguerd  injured in the game against rangers.. never just a knock these days .. straight down for an op on his ankle..

Ogbonna still missing last season (against liverpool where he did his ACL, he slowly working back.. playing for under 23s atm to get fitness)

Dawson is injured for a few weeks

so going into the season we have

Zouma and Diop.

Diop also wanted out because he knows once everyone fit he will be 5th choice lol

the joys

but on the bright side new striker Gianluca Scamacca should be signed today or tomorrow

still need a LB at least and now prob another CB to replace Diop if the fulham rumours are true
		
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I would brace yourself for a back 5 of coufal, Johnson, Zouma, Cresswell & Masuaku (maybe Kostic) vs Citeh.!

Prediction 0-5 ☹️


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## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I would brace yourself for a back 5 of coufal, Johnson, Zouma, Cresswell & Masuaku (maybe Kostic) vs Citeh.!

Prediction 0-5 ☹️
		
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I like to see city as a write off game... get it out of the way early and focus on the next one lol


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## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I liked @ColchesterFC 's suggestion and I think that's the only way to do it. If you simply starting throwing out cards for 'dives' then we go back to a world where defenders are putting in awful tackles and getting away with it. You need to still punish the bad tackle but also punish the forward if their reaction was way over the top.

To clarify again, Kane goes down and wins penalties for sure, but there is always some level of contact from the defender. If there wasn't he wouldn't get the decision.
		
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to be fair.. you have one of the best "dark arts" masters front line now

was playing golf with a few spuds fans sunday.. they agreed son is class but one of the snide players about for a cheeky tackle.. leaving a foot in.. kane loves a go down easy and the old back into defender and now richarlson? all fantastic players ofc in their own right but jezz Dark Art FC lol


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			to be fair.. you have one of the best "dark arts" masters front line now

was playing golf with a few spuds fans sunday.. they agreed son is class but one of the snide players about for a cheeky tackle.. leaving a foot in.. kane loves a go down easy and the old back into defender and now richarlson? all fantastic players ofc in their own right but jezz Dark Art FC lol
		
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Yeah. Unfortunately you don't get anywhere without that. Just look at every Guardiola team, and the great Mourinho teams - even Wenger's best teams in his early years. All chock full of bastards. I think in the pre-Poch years one of our problems was always that we were too nice.


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## RichA (Jul 26, 2022)

*FOREST supporters *read on (apologies to the rest). 
I ordered a couple of the new home shirts in different sizes when they were released, to make sure I got the right size. They've arrived today and I don't need the the LARGE. I'm aware that they have sold out in all sizes. 
They cost £59.50 each. I got 10% off and free delivery so £59 to whoever wants it, so my postage is covered. DM me if interested. 🔴🌳


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## hairball_89 (Jul 26, 2022)

RichA said:



*FOREST supporters *read on (apologies to the rest).
I ordered a couple of the new home shirts in different sizes when they were released, to make sure I got the right size. They've arrived today and I don't need the the LARGE. I'm aware that they have sold out in all sizes.
They cost £59.50 each. I got 10% off and free delivery so £59 to whoever wants it, so my postage is covered. DM me if interested. 🔴🌳
View attachment 43612

Click to expand...

I'll take this. I'll pm you now.


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## Billysboots (Jul 26, 2022)

To the Forest fans out there, I take it you’ve heard the news that Aaron Ramsey has been released by Juve and is now a free agent?


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## RichA (Jul 26, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			To the Forest fans out there, I take it you’ve heard the news that Aaron Ramsey has been released by Juve and is now a free agent?
		
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🤞


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## Billysboots (Jul 26, 2022)

RichA said:



			🤞
		
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I recall it might have been you, Rich, who suggested a pay as you play deal for Ramsey. That would be very smart business.


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## RichA (Jul 26, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I recall it might have been you, Rich, who suggested a pay as you play deal for Ramsey. That would be very smart business.
		
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Not me. I think it was Aztec. It would be good though.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 26, 2022)

RichA said:



*FOREST supporters *read on (apologies to the rest).
I ordered a couple of the new home shirts in different sizes when they were released, to make sure I got the right size. They've arrived today and I don't need the the LARGE. I'm aware that they have sold out in all sizes.
They cost £59.50 each. I got 10% off and free delivery so £59 to whoever wants it, so my postage is covered. DM me if interested. 🔴🌳
View attachment 43612

Click to expand...




hairball_89 said:



			I'll take this. I'll pm you now.
		
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Ah balls! I’d have had it if the XL that arrived today is too big. :-(


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 26, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I recall it might have been you, Rich, who suggested a pay as you play deal for Ramsey. That would be very smart business.
		
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It wasn’t me that suggested it, but would be a smart move and something I could see them offering if it works for all parties. 

Pleased with the Belgian midfielder we’re about to announce based on what I’ve heard. 

I’m hearing rumblings about gibbs-white too.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 26, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			I'll take this. I'll pm you now.
		
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Not that I want to talk you out of this, but bear in mind the Macron sizing is stupidly small because made for silly skinny Italians. Give the sizing guide a check.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2022)

RichA said:



*FOREST supporters *read on (apologies to the rest).
I ordered a couple of the new home shirts in different sizes when they were released, to make sure I got the right size. They've arrived today and I don't need the the LARGE. I'm aware that they have sold out in all sizes.
They cost £59.50 each. I got 10% off and free delivery so £59 to whoever wants it, so my postage is covered. DM me if interested. 🔴🌳
View attachment 43612

Click to expand...

Question is do you have jlingz on The back?

Done deal!!


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## RichA (Jul 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Question is do you have jlingz on The back?

Done deal!!
		
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No. Messi. I've heard a rumour.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2022)

RichA said:



			No. Messi. I've heard a rumour.
		
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I'd rather lingard .. hes won me over.. love him.


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## RichA (Jul 26, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Not that I want to talk you out of this, but bear in mind the Macron sizing is stupidly small because made for silly skinny Italians. Give the sizing guide a check.
		
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I'm 42" chest and 34" waist and either would have been fine. I just chose the option that allows for a little more expansion.
It has a nice retro look about it, especially without a sponsor across the front. Best Forest kit since 1980. Hopefully they'll be back in stock soon.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 26, 2022)

RichA said:



			I'm 42" chest and 34" waist and either would have been fine. I just chose the option that allows for a little more expansion.
It has a nice retro look about it, especially without a sponsor across the front. Best Forest kit since 1980. Hopefully they'll be back in stock soon.
		
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I really like the retro material they’ve used. It’s a really classy shirt. Will pick up an away shirt when I’m up for the West Ham game in a few weeks.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			You'd think public perception would have, to some extent, help put a stop to it. After all, type in Neymar into Google, and top of the list are lots of headlines of the media mocking him for his dive, and sharing the ridicule he is getting on social media. That cannot be good for his reputation. It cannot be good for PSG's reputation, so you'd think they'd ask their players to stop being morons. Not good for the French League either, or the Brazilian national team. When such a high profile players does that, it makes anyone or any organisation he is associated with look like idiots. Surely his sponsors don't like it, unless he has signed up for Speedos for Olympic divers.

The issue is, Neymar himself has no shame. It is players like him that many ridicule PSG and don't take them seriously. Style, no substance. It is also why, despite his technical ability, it is likely that most of the best / richest teams in the world wouldn't want him. As a United fan, I wouldn't want him at the club. I guess most other club fans from the top clubs may feel the same.

I do think some sort of ban for absolutely clear dives and feigning injury would be a good idea (would have to be extremely clear though, as sometime innocuous contact can actually be bloody painful, or make a player fall hard just based on upsetting their balance at pace). However, the damage to his legacy is always going to be much worse. Love or hate their clubs, most fans still have the upmost respect for the likes of Gerrard, Keane, Scholes, Henry, Zidane, etc because of their ability as a player. I think many will remember Neymar as a drama queen and a show pony.
		
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Reading all the comments it’s clear the fans can see this.
The amount of contact is the key thing.
But the yellow card hasn’t worked.
Maybe bring back the diving panel on a Monday night live and have a proper look ,give them the power to refer to the FA / PL and actually do something about it.
If it’s the same players every week then they will be closely monitored and that might just make a difference.
Like golfers on the clock!

For the record my opinion of a dive is going down by choice contact or not when you could stay on your feet.
Not all contact is a foul.


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## Swango1980 (Jul 26, 2022)

England women put on another good watch. Much more entertaining than the men.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2022)

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/62308825

I love it when a plan comes together


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2022)

It looks like Kasper Schmeichel is moving to France. Big shoes to fill at Leicester if he does go, he has been a top keeper.


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## GB72 (Jul 27, 2022)

Rumours that Raphinha and Lewandowski cannot be registed as Barcelona players unless De Jong leaves or takes a pay cut (how likely is that if the rumours that they already owe £17million pounds in wages are true). 

Firstly, how can this happen.

Secondly, why would you sign for a club until you know that there is room in their salary allowances to actually register you.

Thirdly, how strong does that make De Jong's bargaining position. He wants to go to Chelsea I read but they will not pay as much as United. Well, how can Barca turn that down if they need him to leave to register their big new signings. Guessing he can pretty much demand where he goes or the board at Barcelona will need to explain to fans why their £50million signings are sat in the stands.


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## Neilds (Jul 27, 2022)

Listened to a great podcast yesterday about life as a manager in the lower leagues.  The producers followed Paul Warne (Rotherham United) and Karl Robinson (Oxford United) for 3 months at the end of last season and had them miked up during team talks, matches etc.  Only listened to the first 3 (out of 10) but it is a good insight into the life of a lower league manager and what stresses they face.  Especially good for me as I follow Rotherham and know what they have gone through in the past 10-20 years or so.
Thoroughly recommend, even if you don't support either team.


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## hairball_89 (Jul 27, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Listened to a great podcast yesterday about life as a manager in the lower leagues.  The producers followed Paul Warne (Rotherham United) and Karl Robinson (Oxford United) for 3 months at the end of last season and had them miked up during team talks, matches etc.  Only listened to the first 3 (out of 10) but it is a good insight into the life of a lower league manager and what stresses they face.  Especially good for me as I follow Rotherham and know what they have gone through in the past 10-20 years or so.
Thoroughly recommend, even if you don't support either team.
		
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this sounds great, where can I find it?


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## Neilds (Jul 27, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			this sounds great, where can I find it?
		
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It is called Moment of Truth and I found it on BBC sounds


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## Bazzatron (Jul 27, 2022)

Our only striker is out for a month and we loaned his understudy before replacing him. Absolute shambles of a club at the moment.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Our only striker is out for a month and we loaned his understudy before replacing him. Absolute shambles of a club at the moment.
		
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It does feel as though all of the progress you have made in recent years is starting to seep away. I think it could get a little sticky this season if you are not careful.


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## Billysboots (Jul 27, 2022)

I’m rapidly tiring of this transfer window. To say the “Will he, won’t he?” sagas involving both de Jong and Ronaldo are becoming annoying is an understatement and then some. I just wish United would get their business done.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 28, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I’m rapidly tiring of this transfer window. To say the “Will he, won’t he?” sagas involving both de Jong and Ronaldo are becoming annoying is an understatement and then some. I just wish United would get their business done.
		
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Consequently, this has been the most enjoyable transfer window in years for me. 😅


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## Bazzatron (Jul 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It does feel as though all of the progress you have made in recent years is starting to seep away. I think it could get a little sticky this season if you are not careful.
		
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Yeah I agree. Feels like the owners have either lost interest or are content in thinking there's three worse clubs. That kind of thinking gets clubs relegated.


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## Billysboots (Jul 28, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Consequently, this has been the most enjoyable transfer window in years for me. 😅
		
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If you’re so excited by the snails pace at which United do their business in the transfer market, surely you love every summer! It’s the same every year, and I find it utterly tedious.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 28, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			If you’re so excited by the snails pace at which United do their business in the transfer market, surely you love every summer! It’s the same every year, and I find it utterly tedious.
		
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Well, I’m enjoying the lack of business by United, but mostly because I’m a Forest fan 😁


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I’m rapidly tiring of this transfer window. To say the “Will he, won’t he?” sagas involving both de Jong and Ronaldo are becoming annoying is an understatement and then some. I just wish United would get their business done.
		
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You need someone in the club to develop a backbone and move Ronaldo on and forget about de Jong. Neither want to be at the club so why prolong both cases? It happens at clubs during some windows and you either end up with an unhappy player in the dressing room or a rushed plan d player at the end of the window (we can do a deal on Aug 30th for Alex Iwobi if you like 😉)


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## Orikoru (Jul 28, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I’m rapidly tiring of this transfer window. To say the “Will he, won’t he?” sagas involving both de Jong and Ronaldo are becoming annoying is an understatement and then some. I just wish United would get their business done.
		
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Been a great window for us. Normally in the same boat as Levy waits until it's too late to get any deals done and suddenly on deadline day the prices to up. This is the first time I can remember us getting business done early!


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## Swango1980 (Jul 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You need someone in the club to develop a backbone and move Ronaldo on and forget about de Jong. Neither want to be at the club so why prolong both cases? It happens at clubs during some windows and you either end up with an unhappy player in the dressing room or a rushed plan d player at the end of the window (we can do a deal on Aug 30th for Alex Iwobi if you like 😉)
		
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They need to sort Ronaldo asap.

However, I don't know what to believe with De Jong. I'd have thought even the most moronic person would have given up signing him by now, if he genuinely didn't want to go to Utd? However, this whole mess with his wages seems to be a driving factor. Behind closed doors, he might well have said he'd be more than happy to play at Utd under Ten Hag, but Barcelona are being cretins and refusing to give him what he is owed, so he is trying to force their hand knowing they need to sell. Publicly, however, I can see why he announces he wishes to remain in Barcelona. It means Barcelona fans remain onside with him, and it is only the club officials he is annoying.


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## Billysboots (Jul 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You need someone in the club to develop a backbone and move Ronaldo on and forget about de Jong. Neither want to be at the club so why prolong both cases? It happens at clubs during some windows and you either end up with an unhappy player in the dressing room or a rushed plan d player at the end of the window (we can do a deal on Aug 30th for Alex Iwobi if you like 😉)
		
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Agree on every point with the exception of Iwobi 😎

My views on Ronaldo are well known but, to paraphrase, thanks for the great memories but he is not United’s future, and wasn’t when he signed last summer. If he wants out, get rid, and do it soon. The last thing the new manager needs is a stroppy relic of the club’s past moping around the place.

And I agree with Swango as regards de Jong. There is much more to that than is being drip fed for public consumption, and United would not be pursuing any interest in a player who has zero interest in joining them. They simply wouldn’t.


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## Aztecs27 (Jul 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Been a great window for us. Normally in the same boat as Levy waits until it's too late to get any deals done and suddenly on deadline day the prices to up. This is the first time I can remember us getting business done early!
		
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Spence will be a great long term investment for you if he’s developed correctly. 
Although Conte’s answer to the question when he was asked made it sound like it was a club decision and not his choice. Hopefully that’s not the case and/or it doesn’t hamper him. He’s a real talent.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			And I agree with Swango as regards de Jong. There is much more to that than is being drip fed for public consumption, and *United would not be pursuing any interest in a player who has zero interest in joining them. They simply wouldn’t.*

Click to expand...

Are you 100% confident about that? Really?

He may not have zero interest in joining but just how much interest does he have? I know the money side is complicated on this but even so..........


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## pauljames87 (Jul 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Been a great window for us. Normally in the same boat as Levy waits until it's too late to get any deals done and suddenly on deadline day the prices to up. This is the first time I can remember us getting business done early!
		
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I think its been a great window for us (west ham) aswell.

Great to secure our keeper full time.
Good CB signed (shame hes already injured)
Decent young back up midfielder
now a decent striker who PSG tried to sign late on but he was committed on coming to us.. seems to tick all the boxes.. very impressed so far.  



 goals last season




few more positions required.. defo need a LB.


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## Orikoru (Jul 28, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I think its been a great window for us (west ham) aswell.

Great to secure our keeper full time.
Good CB signed (shame hes already injured)
Decent young back up midfielder
now a decent striker who PSG tried to sign late on but he was committed on coming to us.. seems to tick all the boxes.. very impressed so far.  



 goals last season
View attachment 43624



few more positions required.. defo need a LB.
		
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The difference is, people have heard of the players we signed.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The difference is, people have heard of the players we signed. 

Click to expand...

for the wrong reasons tho?


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 28, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I’m rapidly tiring of this transfer window. To say the *“Will he, won’t he?” sagas involving both de Jong* and Ronaldo are becoming annoying is an understatement and then some. I just wish United would get their business done.
		
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Someone at UEFA needs to crack down on Barcelona, who are apparently trying to shift the £17m deferred wages of De Jong onto the buying club.  If they have got the money to buy new players, then they've got the money to service their existing debts.

I don't often agree with Comrade Neville but his recent tweet was absolutely spot on with this.

And no, despite having typed that UEFA need to crack down on Barcelona, I have not been drinking.  I know it won't happen, but it should.


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## Billysboots (Jul 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Are you 100% confident about that? Really?

He may not have zero interest in joining but just how much interest does he have? I know the money side is complicated on this but even so..........
		
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I firmly believe it. There is absolutely no point in signing players who are not committed to the cause. We’ve been there, done that, and I really don’t think the new manager will want to start his time in charge managing a dressing room full of malcontents.


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## chrisd (Jul 28, 2022)

The Mighty Eagles have made several good signings,  I'm looking forward to the new season 😁


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 28, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I firmly believe it. There is absolutely no point in signing players who are not committed to the cause. We’ve been there, done that, and I really don’t think the new manager will want to start his time in charge managing a dressing room full of malcontents.
		
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Yes I think your correct.
He has probably told Utd he wants to come!
But he wants his wages from Barca, who can blame him if they owe it to him.
Barcelona do seem to get away with things other clubs would not.


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## Orikoru (Jul 28, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			for the wrong reasons tho? 

Click to expand...

If playing in the Premier League and the Champion's League are the wrong reasons then I guess so. 🤷‍♂️


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## Orikoru (Jul 28, 2022)

chrisd said:



			The Mighty Eagles have made several good signings,  I'm looking forward to the new season 😁
		
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Have they??


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## pauljames87 (Jul 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			If playing in the Premier League and the Champion's League are the wrong reasons then I guess so. 🤷‍♂️
		
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More the auditions from American sniper lol

Still chuffed though, two summers running we have spent £30 million on CBs. Zouma has premier League and champs League experience, kicks cats tho. Augard is a ball playing CB. I'm gutted he is injured 

I won't apologise for my excitement on a striker lol considering we struggle to get players to score more than 10 goals ! (Bowen got 12 last year first player to go above 10 since Carlton cole in the league)

So to have someone who scored 16 goals in seria a (some bangers) I can't wait to see him in action 

Plus finally can bench Antonio or at least rest him rather than just let him run himself to the glue factory


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## Orikoru (Jul 28, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			More the auditions from American sniper lol

Still chuffed though, two summers running we have spent £30 million on CBs. Zouma has premier League and champs League experience, kicks cats tho. Augard is a ball playing CB. I'm gutted he is injured

I won't apologise for my excitement on a striker lol considering we struggle to get players to score more than 10 goals ! (Bowen got 12 last year first player to go above 10 since Carlton cole in the league)

So to have someone who scored 16 goals in seria a (some bangers) I can't wait to see him in action

Plus finally can bench Antonio or at least rest him rather than just let him run himself to the glue factory
		
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Scandalous that Antonio only managed 10 again, he had 8 by January! 4 of them after 3 games. 

Carlton Cole was an awful footballer, it's outrageous that he is still the benchmark for you as well.


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## chrisd (Jul 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Have they??
		
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Yes


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## pauljames87 (Jul 28, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Yes
		
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I Can't believe downes was being shown round your place then we called him and he left .. I mean we have had it done to us so many times its nice to see it happen in our favour!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2022)

Dwight McNeil signs for Everton, from Burnley. Good signing, only 22, strong and direct runner, scores and creates goals.

Vincent Kompany must be wondering what he has got himself into. So far he has lost Pope, Tarkowski and McNeil. His 3 best players gone, but no doubt he is expected to supply promotion at the first attempt.


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## Hogieefc (Jul 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Dwight McNeil signs for Everton, from Burnley. Good signing, only 22, strong and direct runner, scores and creates goals.

Vincent Kompany must be wondering what he has got himself into. So far he has lost Pope, Tarkowski and McNeil. His 3 best players gone, but no doubt he is expected to supply promotion at the first attempt.
		
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38 games last season with no goals and one assist, typical Everton signing but I hope he proves me wrong


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## fundy (Jul 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Dwight McNeil signs for Everton, from Burnley. Good signing, only 22, strong and direct runner, scores and creates goals.

Vincent Kompany must be wondering what he has got himself into. So far he has lost Pope, Tarkowski and McNeil. His 3 best players gone, but no doubt he is expected to supply promotion at the first attempt.
		
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Ben Mee gone too, chatter Cornet going as well


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2022)

Hogieefc said:



			38 games last season with no goals and one assist, typical Everton signing but I hope he proves me wrong
		
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I though he had scored some last year, oops. To be fair, it was a wretched year for Burnley last year and even in other years they were hardly the epitome of attacking football. He should have more opportunity to attack at Everton, also have a better striker to finish crosses off.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ben Mee gone too, chatter Cornet going as well
		
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I hope they haven't taken a picture yet for the posters. His job just gets tougher by the day.


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## Orikoru (Jul 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I hope they haven't taken a picture yet for the posters. His job just gets tougher by the day.
		
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Kompany seemed a bizarre appointment to me. Thought they were primed for a Pulis/Warnock type appointment, instead a guy with no English managerial experience, in fact very little experience at all. Maybe Newcastle will give them Wood back, they're probably done with him now.


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## Jensen (Jul 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Been a great window for us. Normally in the same boat as Levy waits until it's too late to get any deals done and suddenly on deadline day the prices to up. This is the first time I can remember us getting business done early!
		
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So you’re looking forward to watching a team set up for counter attacking football. Both at home and away 🥱🥱 boring


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## Jensen (Jul 29, 2022)

chrisd said:



			The Mighty Eagles have made several good signings,  I'm looking forward to the new season 😁
		
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Viera had Palace playing some exciting  football last season. So it looks promising for you


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## Tashyboy (Jul 29, 2022)

Rumours around City that’s James McTee will be allowed to go out on loan for the season. A couple of teams are interested, one being Forest. He would be one hell of a signing and if Forest get him I would be really excited at how the window has gone. He is another Foden he is that good.


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## Orikoru (Jul 29, 2022)

Jensen said:



			So you’re looking forward to watching a team set up for counter attacking football. Both at home and away 🥱🥱 boring
		
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I don't know what you mean by that? He's brought in Perisic because he needs more attacking wing backs than we had. He's brought in Lenglet who I gather is a ball-playing centre back. He's brought in Richarlison to give us another attacking option when Kane or Son aren't available or need resting. What were you expecting that hasn't been delivered??


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## Jensen (Jul 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know what you mean by that? He's brought in Perisic because he needs more attacking wing backs than we had. He's brought in Lenglet who I gather is a ball-playing centre back. He's brought in Richarlison to give us another attacking option when Kane or Son aren't available or need resting. What were you expecting that hasn't been delivered??
		
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A creative attacking midfield player would be nice. We’ve got too many defensive midfielders in Hojberg, Bentancur and the lad signed from Brighton. 
A player who can open things up and is creative, like Erikson. However that’s not gonna happen as Conte sets his teams up to play on the break ie counter attacking style.
Admittedly it would be nice to win something and we have a good chance under Conte. However personally I would prefer a more adventurous, attacking and entertaining team to watch under a manager with less odds to win something than Conte.
I know you can’t go back in time, but our best chance for a longtime was under Pochettino and it’s that style that I’d like to see


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## fundy (Jul 29, 2022)

20 mins in but Burnley look like theyll be fine with Kompany  certainly dont look like a Burnley side as we know them!!!


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## Tashyboy (Jul 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			20 mins in but Burnley look like theyll be fine with Kompany  certainly dont look like a Burnley side as we know them!!!
		
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After 33 minutes Burnley have 75% possession 😳


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## fundy (Jul 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			After 33 minutes Burnley have 75% possession 😳
		
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Wonder where Kompany did his learning lol

1-0 up and could easily be 3 or 4


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## Tashyboy (Jul 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Wonder where Kompany did his learning lol

1-0 up and could easily be 3 or 4
		
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seriously you can see similarities between his style of play and Citys. I wonder if we will see the “ dark arts “. It may seem strange quoting 75% but last year Burnley in some games probably never kicked the ball 75 times in a game.


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## fundy (Jul 29, 2022)

lol at Huddersfield fans booing their players off at half time first game of the season - fickle much


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## Orikoru (Jul 29, 2022)

Jensen said:



			A creative attacking midfield player would be nice. We’ve got too many defensive midfielders in Hojberg, Bentancur and the lad signed from Brighton.
A player who can open things up and is creative, like Erikson. However that’s not gonna happen as Conte sets his teams up to play on the break ie counter attacking style.
Admittedly it would be nice to win something and we have a good chance under Conte. However personally I would prefer a more adventurous, attacking and entertaining team to watch under a manager with less odds to win something than Conte.
I know you can’t go back in time, but our best chance for a longtime was under Pochettino and it’s that style that I’d like to see
		
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But there's no space for an attacking midfielder in the system. The two CMs are to give a sturdy base and the attacking input comes from out wide. I love counter attacking football I think it's great to watch when it's ruthless and cuts through teams in seconds. We scored quite a lot of goals towards the end of last season - 4 past Leeds, 5 past Everton, 5 past Newcastle, 4 past Villa, 5 past Norwich. We were as free-scoring as we've ever been! Pochettino also played counter attacking, just with a different formation. I find your attitude bizarre. As you've mentioned, having Conte in charge with the players he wants is as good a chance of a trophy as we've ever had.


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## 4LEX (Jul 29, 2022)

My Top 6....

1. Man City
2. Liverpool
3. Spurs
4. Chelsea
5. Arsenal
6. Man Utd

Arsenal and Man Utd are pot luck depending on how Ten Hag adapts to the league and what happens with the Ronaldo and de Jong debacles. Spurs and Chelsea are really close too, just feel Chelsea have missed out on a lot of their first choice targets and still don't have an elite striker. I'd only put money on City winning it. Liverpool will miss Mane badly and while Diaz looks a good player, he's still very raw and scatty. Nunez looks much the same. Henderson the leader of the midfield is another year older too. 

City have lost a few squad players but replaced them with massive upgrades. I have a feeling Grealish will step up this season.

What dies everyone else think the Top 6 will look like?


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## Slime (Jul 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			My Top 6....

1. Man City
2. Liverpool
3. Spurs
4. Chelsea
5. Arsenal
6. Man Utd

What dies everyone else think the Top 6 will look like?
		
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If we get de Jong and a striker;

City
L'pool
Chelsea
Utd
Spurs
Newcastle.


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## BrianM (Jul 29, 2022)

Manchester City
Liverpool 
Chelsea
Tottenham Hotspur
Manchester United
Arsenal


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## Jensen (Jul 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			But there's no space for an attacking midfielder in the system. The two CMs are to give a sturdy base and the attacking input comes from out wide. I love counter attacking football I think it's great to watch when it's ruthless and cuts through teams in seconds. We scored quite a lot of goals towards the end of last season - 4 past Leeds, 5 past Everton, 5 past Newcastle, 4 past Villa, 5 past Norwich. We were as free-scoring as we've ever been! Pochettino also played counter attacking, just with a different formation. I find your attitude bizarre. As you've mentioned, having Conte in charge with the players he wants is as good a chance of a trophy as we've ever had.
		
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I guess we see things differently. Under Pochettino we played the “press” !!!!!


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## BrianM (Jul 30, 2022)

1st Coupon off the new season on, let the fun and games begin 🤣🤣


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## Slime (Jul 30, 2022)

Utd losing 1-0 to Atletico Madrid.
Utd actually played very well whilst AM are dirty dogs in friendlies also!


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## 3offTheTee (Jul 30, 2022)

Man U appoint Benni McCarthy as first team coach. Decent player and won Champions League with Porto when Mourinho was in chrge


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## Tashyboy (Jul 30, 2022)

The season kicks off today. Three generations of Tash sampling Leicesters hospitality.


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## RichA (Jul 30, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			The season kicks off today. Three generations of Tash sampling Leicesters hospitality.
		
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Which one is you?


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## Swango1980 (Jul 30, 2022)

Slime said:



			Utd losing 1-0 to Atletico Madrid.
Utd actually played very well whilst AM are dirty dogs in friendlies also!
		
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Heard Fred got sent off and it was anything but a friendly. Why am I surprised, Athletico Madrid are an awful team. Heard Eriksen look decent when he came on..


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## GB72 (Jul 30, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			The season kicks off today. Three generations of Tash sampling Leicesters hospitality.
		
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If that is you in the left, you are Swiss Toni


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## Tashyboy (Jul 30, 2022)

RichA said:



			Which one is you?
		
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😳🤔😂😂😂😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Jul 30, 2022)

GB72 said:



			If that is you in the left, you are Swiss Toni
	View attachment 43647

View attachment 43647

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Slime (Jul 30, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Heard Fred got sent off and it was anything but a friendly. Why am I surprised, Athletico Madrid are an awful team. Heard Eriksen look decent when he came on..
		
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Eriksen made football look easy, he reminded me of Modric.
Fred looked really good until the red card which was for a stamp, albeit accidental in my eyes.
United looked far more proactive than normal and created several decent chances.
They certainly were unlucky to lose.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2022)

Just doesn’t feel right that the Charity Shield is being played in July 🤷‍♂️ Just over 4 weeks since the CL final 

World Cup has really messed the season up


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2022)

Well not a bad goal to start the season 

shame about the idiots with smoke


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## Jensen (Jul 30, 2022)

Slime said:



			Eriksen made football look easy, he reminded me of Modric.
Fred looked really good until the red card which was for a stamp, albeit accidental in my eyes.
United looked far more proactive than normal and created several decent chances.
They certainly were unlucky to lose.
		
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Eriksen is a real classsy player, wish he was still at Spurs


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2022)

That looks onside - not sure why taking so long

On the replay looks like Adrian had two hands on the ball 🤷‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2022)

Heck of an opening for the season - pretty competitive CS

Can see both teams are going to be close again this season and ahead of the rest

Salah looks very sharp after a good rest and not a bad way to start from Nunez

Looking forward to those Nunez compilations later

How the heck did he miss


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just doesn’t feel right that the Charity Shield is being played in July 🤷‍♂️ Just over 4 weeks since the CL final

World Cup has really messed the season up
		
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Seen Klopp moaning about this.
It’s a friendly.
Liverpool have played friendlies before it  & will play more before season starts 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Jul 30, 2022)

Well I quite enjoyed that. For a friendly 😉 it was a good game to watch. For the life of me though, why they picked the King power stadium it is beyond me. Normally a game where the fan base is 50/50 one set of fans go one way, the other set the other. Yet at King power all the fans have to go the same way. It was asking for trouble. I think both sets of fans will be happy with that performance. I would be surprised if there is more than 3 points between them at the end of the season. 
couple of things from the game.
Liverpool brought on a couple of kids re subs. Do Liverpool have any players out, is the squad thin. I don’t know.
Liverpool for the first time I have noticed managed to slow the game down at certain points.It will give the team a “ breather “ from there high intensity pressing etc. Is that a new thing or just something I have not seen before. 
City do play narrow and compress the game in one half. Liverpool,early on hit a few cross field balls and stretched City.
Liverpool do play or played very high. City never really took advantage. Other teams could.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Well I quite enjoyed that. For a friendly 😉 it was a good game to watch. For the life of me though, why they picked the King power stadium it is beyond me. Normally a game where the fan base is 50/50 one set of fans go one way, the other set the other. Yet at King power all the fans have to go the same way. It was asking for trouble. I think both sets of fans will be happy with that performance. I would be surprised if there is more than 3 points between them at the end of the season.
couple of things from the game.
*Liverpool brought on a couple of kids re subs. Do Liverpool have any players out, is the squad thin. I don’t know.*
Liverpool for the first time I have noticed managed to slow the game down at certain points.It will give the team a “ breather “ from there high intensity pressing etc. Is that a new thing or just something I have not seen before.
City do play narrow and compress the game in one half. Liverpool,early on hit a few cross field balls and stretched City.
Liverpool do play or played very high. City never really took advantage. Other teams could.
		
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which kids ? 

Do you mean Elliot and Carvahlo? 

Both first team squad members and in Elliot’s case his second season in the squad , Carvahlo was bought during the summer

And we have been playing the high line since VVD arrived at the club


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 31, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553431355656179712
😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2022)




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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2022)

@Orikoru  are you going to start a prediction thread again? Not a weekly results one but for the season, winners, relegation, manager for the boot, cups etc. I can't find the last one otherwise I'd copy / paste it.


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## Orikoru (Aug 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Orikoru  are you going to start a prediction thread again? Not a weekly results one but for the season, winners, relegation, manager for the boot, cups etc. I can't find the last one otherwise I'd copy / paste it.
		
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Ah yeah probably will do that this week either tomorrow or Wednesday. 👍🏻


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 3, 2022)

Not that I want to keep banging on about it, but found this interesting in an article from the Telegraph this morning


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## Slime (Aug 3, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



*Not that I want to keep banging on about it*, but found this interesting in an article from the Telegraph this morning
		
Click to expand...

But you obviously do ................................. because you are.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			But you obviously do ................................. because you are. 

Click to expand...

 Touché

Just making sure all the salty West Ham fans know the facts.


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## Orikoru (Aug 3, 2022)

Fantasy League question for Chelsea fans - Havertz is listed as a forward this season. What's going on there? Is he going to play as the main striker since you have no one else there or what?


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## fundy (Aug 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Fantasy League question for Chelsea fans - Havertz is listed as a forward this season. What's going on there? Is he going to play as the main striker since you have no one else there or what?
		
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not a chelsea fan but as a fantasy fan:

he played "up front" at the end of the season in a lot of games, Lukaku has gone, Werner is rumoured to be going, they dont seem to fancy Broja much so until they buy would fully expect Havertz to start the season as their main "forward"


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			not a chelsea fan but as a fantasy fan:

he played "up front" at the end of the season in a lot of games, Lukaku has gone, Werner is rumoured to be going, they dont seem to fancy Broja much so until they buy would fully expect Havertz to start the season as their main "forward"
		
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If a no. 10, effectively what Havertz is, plays as the main striker, it rarely goes well. They are better feeding off the main striker, not being the main striker. I don't think I would be touching him in FL until Chelsea sort out their striker situation.

Chelsea are being linked with all sorts of players but oddly enough, none of them strikers. That seems bizarre.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Fantasy League question for Chelsea fans - Havertz is listed as a forward this season. What's going on there? Is he going to play as the main striker since you have no one else there or what?
		
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They just list where they play most last season 

Much like Arnie for us for first season midfielder, then striker 

Same with Antonio 

These players are worth it when they are listed as midfielders but playing striker .. not when playing strikers as they don't score as many 

Zinchenko is one to watch .. he is really a midfielder.. will arsenal play him there? If they do.. bargain


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## fundy (Aug 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			They just list where they play most last season

Much like Arnie for us for first season midfielder, then striker

Same with Antonio

These players are worth it when they are listed as midfielders but playing striker .. not when playing strikers as they don't score as many

Zinchenko is one to watch .. he is really a midfielder.. will arsenal play him there? If they do.. bargain
		
Click to expand...

he'll start the season at left back as Tierney is yet again injured, hes cover for there and the left sided midfield role assuming we arent buying Tielemans or similar


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2022)

"Chelsea announce £20m signing of Carney Chukwuemeka from Aston Villa". 

Are Villa fans disappointed? It seems a lot for an 18yr old who hasn't played much


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			"Chelsea announce £20m signing of Carney Chukwuemeka from Aston Villa".

Are Villa fans disappointed? It seems a lot for an 18yr old who hasn't played much
		
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He’s great on FIFA 😂


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## Orikoru (Aug 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			"Chelsea announce £20m signing of Carney Chukwuemeka from Aston Villa".

Are Villa fans disappointed? It seems a lot for an 18yr old who hasn't played much
		
Click to expand...

Can't wait to see him on loan at Vitesse.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 4, 2022)

So, I don’t think Dean Henderson wants to go back to United. His comments at the Premier League Launch Day were a bit 😬😬😬


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2022)

Calvert-Lewin out for 6 weeks 😬. Rondon is suspended for Saturday.  No idea who starts up front for us on Saturday 🙄.

We need to start this season well, this isn't what we needed.


----------



## Hogieefc (Aug 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Calvert-Lewin out for 6 weeks 😬. Rondon is suspended for Saturday.  No idea who starts up front for us on Saturday 🙄.

We need to start this season well, this isn't what we needed.
		
Click to expand...

I know, we can loan all the young lads out to give them some experience rather than give them a chance here, a typical Everton thing bringing in more defenders and midfielders and we are crying out for people who can put the ball in the net.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2022)

Hogieefc said:



			I know, we can loan all the young lads out to give them some experience rather than give them a chance here, a typical Everton thing bringing in more defenders and midfielders and we are crying out for people who can put the ball in the net.
		
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Seems a bit hasty to have sent Ellis Simms out to Sunderland. Now, every team out there knows we are in a hurry to pick a striker up and will squeeze us harder.


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## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Calvert-Lewin out for 6 weeks 😬. Rondon is suspended for Saturday.  No idea who starts up front for us on Saturday 🙄.

We need to start this season well, this isn't what we needed.
		
Click to expand...

Richarli... oh wait. You could play Dele up top to be fair. I always thought he'd be decent as a striker.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Richarli... oh wait. You could play Dele up top to be fair. I always thought he'd be decent as a striker.
		
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Richarlison up top, through the middle, was an absolute waste of space so he is not a miss there. Really, he contributes nothing if played that way. I suspect Alli will nominally play up top but we will likely go a bit Man City, except without the quality, and play with multiple midfielders rather than expecting him to lead the line in a traditional way. 

Scoring goals was a massive issue last year and its looking ominous already


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Richarlison up top, through the middle, was an absolute waste of space so he is not a miss there. Really, he contributes nothing if played that way. I suspect Alli will nominally play up top but we will likely go a bit Man City, except without the quality, and play with multiple midfielders rather than expecting him to lead the line in a traditional way.

Scoring goals was a massive issue last year and its looking ominous already
		
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Surley a team like Everton should not have a problem getting a decent striker,
What have they been doing in the break.
If you don’t score goals in the PL your in big trouble.
You can’t rely on CL he’s injured to much.
Needs sorting asap.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Seems a bit hasty to have sent Ellis Simms out to Sunderland. Now, every team out there knows we are in a hurry to pick a striker up and will squeeze us harder.
		
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Can’t you call him back ?
How do these loan spells work.?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Surley a team like Everton should not have a problem getting a decent striker,
What have they been doing in the break.
If you don’t score goals in the PL your in big trouble.
You can’t rely on CL he’s injured to much.
Needs sorting asap.
		
Click to expand...

You'd like to think not but clearly the last 12 months have not been the best so we are not as attractive right now. I suspect agents are worried about our finances and are not rushing to put their players with us.

If you can't score, you go down. It's as simple and as basic as that.

Agree about CL. There is a trend starting to happen and we can't be relying on him. An alternative should be more of a priority than another midfielder that we keep being linked with 🙄



clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t you call him back ?
How do these loan spells work.?
		
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It depends on the terms of the loan. Some have a callback written in, others guarantee a clear period eg full season or until Jan 1st. I would have thought that if they have any opinion of Simms then someone should be driving up to Sunderland tonight to bring him back for Saturday, and the next 5 games.

My worry is that we either a/ get no one b/ buy another Cenk Tosun, Rondon etc in a panic. If we really want the lad from Chelsea, Broja, then go get him. Don't prat about. We don't have a bad start to the season, we can't afford to waste that.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2022)

Happy new football season one and all, here's to another ding dong battle!!

I hope you Armchair ST holders have got plenty of AA batteries for your sky remotes😉


----------



## Slime (Aug 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Happy new football season one and all, here's to another ding dong battle!!

*I hope you Armchair ST holders have got plenty of AA batteries for your sky remotes*😉
		
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Ha,ha ..................................... and I hope your car breaks down.


----------



## Aztecs27 (Aug 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Happy new football season one and all, here's to another ding dong battle!!

I hope you Armchair ST holders have got plenty of AA batteries for your sky remotes😉
		
Click to expand...

 First time in 23 years…whatever happens, I’m going to enjoy the ride.


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## Jensen (Aug 5, 2022)

Looking forward to watching Palace tonight to see how they’ve developed, but more interested to see if they continue with the “press”


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2022)

Slime said:



			Ha,ha ..................................... and I hope your car breaks down. 

Click to expand...

Ahhh eh @Slime old boy bit too early for the abuse isnt it?
🤣🤣


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 5, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Looking forward to watching Palace tonight to see how they’ve developed, but more interested to see if they continue with the “press”
		
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30 minutes in and they are getting a lesson from arsenal, who are looking very impressive.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			First time in 23 years…whatever happens, I’m going to enjoy the ride.
		
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Just a few housekeeping rules Jonathon;

The league table doesnt matter until after 10 games.

VAR is owned and funded by Klopp.

All the big clubs get all the decisions. 

😉


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Just a few housekeeping rules Jonathon;

The league table doesnt matter until after 10 games.

VAR is owned and funded by Klopp.

All the big clubs get all the decisions.

😉
		
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not much different to the championship then. Different rules, same moaners


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## Jensen (Aug 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			30 minutes in and they are getting a lesson from arsenal, who are looking very impressive.
		
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Yes, Arsenal played well (certainly not George Graham style 😂). Very much on the front foot with quick “pressing”.


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## Slime (Aug 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Ahhh eh @Slime old boy bit too early for the abuse isnt it?
🤣🤣
		
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Never too early Stu, never too early.


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## IanM (Aug 5, 2022)

Any new wee animals on show this season?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2022)

Slime said:



			Never too early Stu, never too early.  

Click to expand...

😉👍


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 5, 2022)

Good to see the ref letting the game flow.
Let’s hope diving is met with a yellow card more often.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2022)

New season same old Xhaka yellow cards 🤣🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2022)

Martin Tyler 🛎 end


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## Jensen (Aug 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Martin Tyler 🛎 end
		
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Why’s that then….


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Why’s that then….
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555655410769707008


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## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555655410769707008

Click to expand...

Sounds like a fuss over nothing, he clearly just misspoke.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555655410769707008

Click to expand...

Wow. That is impressively horrendous.


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## Slime (Aug 5, 2022)

IanM said:



			Any new wee animals on show this season?
		
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Not too many, but too many originals made very few appearances last season!


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Sounds like a fuss over nothing, he clearly just misspoke.
		
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Thing is though Speaking is his job.
He really needs to take care what he says.


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## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thing is though Speaking is his job.
He really needs to take care what he says.
		
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Ok he slipped up but he is 76! I'm not his biggest fan or anything but his apology and explanation made sense to me. Obviously we'd got to Friday without a witch hunt though so he'll do.


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## fundy (Aug 5, 2022)

We are top of the league, say we are top of the league 

Might as well enjoy it whilst we can haha

(and none of this 10 games for a league table rubbish either  )


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Ok he slipped up but he is 76! I'm not his biggest fan or anything but his apology and explanation made sense to me. Obviously we'd got to Friday without a witch hunt though so he'll do.
		
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Mountain out of a mole hill.
He’s apologised for his MISTAKE 🤷‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Sounds like a fuss over nothing, he clearly just misspoke.
		
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A fuss over nothing? 

After the cover up from the establishment and Thatcher,  when the fans were blamed for forcing the gates , those lies and many more were pedalled in the media for many many years. 

It's still believed by some, the "murderers" chants along with " the sun was right, murderers", "always the victims"  etc are routinely sang every week, these chants all stemmed from that disaster based on those same lies. 

South Yorkshire Police/West Midlands Police forcing officers to change statements of events to coincide with the establishments lies.

116 of 164 police statements were 'amended to remove or alter comments unfavourable to South Yorkshire police'

Thousands of innocent fans were blamed for that tragic day, and those have had to fight to clear their name. For some, its taken its toll.

Duckenfield who actually admitted to openeing the gates many years after at the Hillsborough inquest admitted this.

So yeah he may have "just misspoke" but with his experience and vast football knowledge he should know better. 

Do i think he meant it? No, i dont but it cannot be expected to go unchallenged neither.

There's no excuse for Ignorance on these types of matters.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2022)

☝️


Orikoru said:



			Ok he slipped up but he is 76! I'm not his biggest fan or anything but his apology and explanation made sense to me. *Obviously we'd got to Friday without a witch hunt though so he'll do.*

Click to expand...

A witch hunt?

It's an emotive subject ffs whereby a false narrative has been pedalled and accepted as the truth, irrespective of the real truth. It's understandable some will feel aggreived by his comments.

Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and accept responsibility.


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## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			A fuss over nothing?

After the cover up from the establishment and Thatcher,  when the fans were blamed for forcing the gates , those lies and many more were pedalled in the media for many many years.

It's still believed by some, the "murderers" chants along with " the sun was right, murderers", "always the victims"  etc are routinely sang every week, these chants all stemmed from that disaster based on those same lies.

South Yorkshire Police/West Midlands Police forcing officers to change statements of events to coincide with the establishments lies.

116 of 164 police statements were 'amended to remove or alter comments unfavourable to South Yorkshire police'

Thousands of innocent fans were blamed for that tragic day, and those have had to fight to clear their name. For some, its taken its toll.

Duckenfield who actually admitted to openeing the gates many years after at the Hillsborough inquest admitted this.

So yeah he may have "just misspoke" but with his experience and vast football knowledge he should know better.

Do i think he meant it? No, i dont but it cannot be expected to go unchallenged neither.

There's no excuse for Ignorance on these types of matters.
		
Click to expand...

He just misspoke. It seems like he meant to say "Hillsborough *and also, *incidents of hooliganism" but he said 'and other' instead. I accept that he had no intention of linking the two he just said the wrong word. It happens.


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## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			☝️


A witch hunt?

It's an emotive subject ffs whereby a false narrative has been pedalled and accepted as the truth, irrespective of the real truth. It's understandable some will feel aggreived by his comments.

Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and accept responsibility.
		
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Well he's apologised and explained that that's not at all what he meant to say. What more do you want?


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He just misspoke. It seems like he meant to say "Hillsborough *and also, *incidents of hooliganism" but he said 'and other' instead. I accept that he had no intention of linking the two he just said the wrong word. It happens.
		
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I know what it seems but what he said was completely different.

 I'm no English Language Linguistics expert but when you use "and other" in a sentence,  you are insinuating they're comparable. As i understand it.

I also accept he never meant it, that doesn't mean he shouldnt  be challenged or expected to clarify his comments.


----------



## Slime (Aug 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			A fuss over nothing?

After the cover up from the establishment and Thatcher,  when the fans were blamed for forcing the gates , those lies and many more were pedalled in the media for many many years.

It's still believed by some, the "murderers" chants along with " the sun was right, murderers", "always the victims"  etc are routinely sang every week, these chants all stemmed from that disaster based on those same lies.

South Yorkshire Police/West Midlands Police forcing officers to change statements of events to coincide with the establishments lies.

116 of 164 police statements were 'amended to remove or alter comments unfavourable to South Yorkshire police'

Thousands of innocent fans were blamed for that tragic day, and those have had to fight to clear their name. For some, its taken its toll.

Duckenfield who actually admitted to openeing the gates many years after at the Hillsborough inquest admitted this.

So yeah he may have "just misspoke" but with his experience and vast football knowledge he should know better.

Do i think he meant it? No, i dont but it cannot be expected to go unchallenged neither.

There's no excuse for Ignorance on these types of matters.
		
Click to expand...

Hey Stu, we all know the truth.
Liverpool supporters WERE NOT to blame, but were truly and tragically the victims.
We all know those that sing those chants are not fit to share our planet, but idiots will remain idiots
They only want to get a response ...................... try not to feed them, as difficult as I understand it must be.


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## Slime (Aug 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			We are top of the league, say we are top of the league 

Might as well enjoy it whilst we can haha

(*and none of this 10 games for a league table rubbish either* )
		
Click to expand...

Hey, we all know the league table means nothing until Liverpool are on the top!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Well he's apologised and explained that that's not at all what he meant to say. What more do you want?
		
Click to expand...

I want nothing off him, he's clarified his comments irrespective of my thoughts.

People in the media have a responsibility of what and how they say things. These are well educated people.

You've suggested  it's a witch hunt against him. I find that particular comment crass all things considered.


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## 4LEX (Aug 6, 2022)

To be fair hooligans were to blame for Hillsborugh - not directly on the day but by their behaviour that caused fans to be fenced in like animals.


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## RRidges (Aug 6, 2022)

4LEX said:



			To be fair hooligans were to blame for Hillsborugh - not directly on the day but by their behaviour that caused fans to be fenced in like animals.
		
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You do seem to enjoy throwing controversial comments about! Didn't you predict that the Ukraine conflict would be over in 3 weeks with Russia having a bloody nose? 
But certainly 'hooliganism' and the reaction of authorities, both by clubs and policing, to it had an effect - and there have been changes to counter that.


----------



## Swango1980 (Aug 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I know what it seems but what he said was completely different.

 I'm no English Language Linguistics expert but when you use "and other" in a sentence,  you are insinuating they're comparable. As i understand it.

I also accept he never meant it, that doesn't mean he shouldnt  be challenged or expected to clarify his comments.
		
Click to expand...

He was challenged. He apologised and explained himself. So, surely that should be that.

I think the original reaction on this thread was to Liverpoolphil calling him a bell end. Some people offer no forgiveness when someone misspeaks.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 6, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555509886808735744
😂😂


----------



## Jensen (Aug 6, 2022)

I think the more entertaining and successful teams all seem to play the “press”. At its best it’s the high “press”, the likes of Man City, Liverpool and dare I say it Arsenal seem to be going that way.
Better brand of football.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Ok he slipped up but he is 76! I'm not his biggest fan or anything but his apology and explanation made sense to me. Obviously we'd got to Friday without a witch hunt though so he'll do.
		
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Might make sense to you.
But to a lot of the families it won’t.
It’s really poor from someone in football who speaks for a living and should understand the power of the spoken word.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Might make sense to you.
But to a lot of the families it won’t.
It’s really poor from someone in football who speaks for a living and should understand the power of the spoken word.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure he does. But, for someone who speaks for a living, and for so many years, I am sure he has uttered millions of words publicly. To assume he can robotically speak every word without any phrase being said in a way that could be taken out of context is absurd.

Is the simple truth not as follows: Liverpool fans have got angry because of how that statement could be interpreted. Since then, it has been clarified that that interpretation is incorrect, and was meant in a different context. Yet, some are still angry, despite the fact the thing that are actually angry about has been clarified as not existing at all. So, now some have to aim the same level of anger at a guys slip of the tongue and poorly strung together sentence. 

If he was a chap who commonly went round putting his foot in it, you could question his ability to choose his words carefully. However, as far as I'm aware, he isn't exactly a controversial figure? So, maybe the best reaction is: yeah, fair enough, he meant no offense by what he said, he had apologised in the way he used those words, move on.


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## Orikoru (Aug 6, 2022)

You've got to love how Fulham have been up and down since the dawn of time, but apparently still believe that THIS will be the time they stay up with Tim Ream still at centre back.  Why do they never learn??


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm sure he does. But, for someone who speaks for a living, and for so many years, I am sure he has uttered millions of words publicly. To assume he can robotically speak every word without any phrase being said in a way that could be taken out of context is absurd.

Is the simple truth not as follows: Liverpool fans have got angry because of how that statement could be interpreted. Since then, it has been clarified that that interpretation is incorrect, and was meant in a different context. Yet, some are still angry, despite the fact the thing that are actually angry about has been clarified as not existing at all. So, now some have to aim the same level of anger at a guys slip of the tongue and poorly strung together sentence.

If he was a chap who commonly went round putting his foot in it, you could question his ability to choose his words carefully. However, as far as I'm aware, he isn't exactly a controversial figure? So, maybe the best reaction is: yeah, fair enough, he meant no offense by what he said, he had apologised in the way he used those words, move on.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree with most of what you say.
But the guy has been in football all his life commentating so when talking about things like this he needs to be a bit more aware.
It’s his job after all.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 6, 2022)

Some performance from Mitrovic on his return to the prem,absolutely bullied Van Dijk.


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## BiMGuy (Aug 6, 2022)

Liverpool fans are keeping quiet about the football today 😂


----------



## pokerjoke (Aug 6, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Liverpool fans are keeping quiet about the football today 😂
		
Click to expand...

Still celebrating the Hockey result yesterday 😃


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			You've got to love how Fulham have been up and down since the dawn of time, but apparently still believe that THIS will be the time they stay up with Tim Ream still at centre back.  Why do they never learn??
		
Click to expand...

Er 😁👍


----------



## Aztecs27 (Aug 6, 2022)

Klopp doing Klopp things. Didn’t win because pitch was dry, apparently 😂

Forest looked predictably nervous early doors against the Toon. Weathered the storm though, and will hopefully come out settled (with some changes in midfield!) in the second half.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 6, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Some performance from Mitrovic on his return to the prem,absolutely bullied Van Dijk.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62280543


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## Tashyboy (Aug 6, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



*Klopp doing Klopp things. Didn’t win because pitch was dry, apparently 😂*

Forest looked predictably nervous early doors against the Toon. Weathered the storm though, and will hopefully come out settled (with some changes in midfield!) in the second half.
		
Click to expand...

last weeks view was “ it’s not fair as we have had a shorter end of season” they played the champs league final when everyone else was finished. You get used to it 👍


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			last weeks view was “ it’s not fair as we have had a shorter end of season” they played the champs league final when everyone else was finished. You get used to it 👍
		
Click to expand...

I have friends who are Liverpool fans so I’m already immune to his nonsense.

I’ll use the same excuse for Forest looking leggy today, since we had the playoff final late on 👍😎


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## BrianM (Aug 6, 2022)

Dacoure 🙈🙈


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## BiMGuy (Aug 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			last weeks view was “ it’s not fair as we have had a shorter end of season” they played the champs league final when everyone else was finished. You get used to it 👍
		
Click to expand...

Yet they still went on a preseason tour to the Far East and Europe 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Aug 6, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Yet they still went on a preseason tour to the Far East and Europe 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Now you have gone and spoilt it chucking in facts. 🤔😳😂
Anyway it’s Peps turn tomorrow making excuses why Haaland never scored. Gud job Alvarez gets an hat trick 😁


----------



## BiMGuy (Aug 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Now you have gone and spoilt it chucking in facts. 🤔😳😂
		
Click to expand...

Sorry 🤭


----------



## BiMGuy (Aug 6, 2022)

The first “how is that not a penalty?” of the season.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555972827647541248


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 6, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			The first “how is that not a penalty?” of the season.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555972827647541248

Click to expand...

Yes what is VAR doing there that’s a joke.,


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## Tashyboy (Aug 6, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			The first “how is that not a penalty?” of the season.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555972827647541248

Click to expand...

I thought it was a shocker


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 7, 2022)

The bigger shocker was the one on Sterling at Everton, made worse by the fact that when Havertz made a very similar challenge on an Everton defender, Pawson couldn't whistle quickly enough.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2022)

What a turgid performance that was yesterday, just not at it from the off.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He was challenged. He apologised and explained himself. *So, surely that should be that.*

I think the original reaction on this thread was to Liverpoolphil calling him a bell end. Some people offer no forgiveness when someone misspeaks.
		
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What are you on about?

I’ve not suggested it shouldn’t be, I thought Orikoru’s “witch hunt” was a poor response.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Now you have gone and spoilt it chucking in facts. 🤔😳😂
Anyway it’s Peps turn tomorrow making excuses why Haaland never scored. Gud job Alvarez gets an hat trick 😁
		
Click to expand...

I don’t see us giving you much of a game tbh. Dithering Dave has spent £105M during this window but none of it will be featuring today.
We will be starting with virtually the same lineup that only won 3 of the last 11 games last season.
Still, it’s a new season and I’m looking forward to it and also seeing where the scumbags that run my club have decided to put us this season… our previous seats being swallowed up into a “New and exciting” 1966 club. (Only £500 more expensive and no concessions if I was interested😩)


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## BrianM (Aug 7, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			I don’t see us giving you much of a game tbh. Dithering Dave has spent £105M during this window but none of it will be featuring today.
We will be starting with virtually the same lineup that only won 3 of the last 11 games last season.
Still, it’s a new season and I’m looking forward to it and also seeing where the scumbags that run my club have decided to put us this season… our previous seats being swallowed up into a “New and exciting” 1966 club. (Only £500 more expensive and no concessions if I was interested😩)
		
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Dithering Dave, WOW, He's done a great job at West Ham since he's came in, only my opinion, I don't watch them week in week out though.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 7, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Dithering Dave, WOW, He's done a great job at West Ham since he's came in, only my opinion, I don't watch them week in week out though.
		
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I agree, he has done a great job but for some reason he just cannot get players in. Last season it was universally accepted the squad was too small, he played the same 14 players every week and we ran out of gas. 

This year we are starting with an even smaller squad and DM has already been lamenting the injuries we have!


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## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2022)

Back end of last season if I remember they didn’t do to badly V City. 😡


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## BrianM (Aug 7, 2022)

New Manager, same old Utd 😂😂


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## Bazzatron (Aug 7, 2022)

Any time Neves gets linked with Utd their fans on twitter says he's not good enough. 
He'd be their best midfielder by far.


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2022)

BrianM said:



			New Manager, same old Utd 😂😂
		
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Same board, same old United.


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Any time Neves gets linked with Utd their fans on twitter says he's not good enough.
He'd be their best midfielder by far.
		
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have him at arsenal in a heartbeat plse


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## Bazzatron (Aug 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			have him at arsenal in a heartbeat plse
		
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He's so good, and should only get better. Rumours of a new contract with assurances of a clean break if someone comes in. Would be great if he gives us another year or two but we've already had more than we should've.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 7, 2022)

Fred and McTomminay. We still hope to control a football match with those two low quality midfielders.


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2022)




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## Dando (Aug 7, 2022)




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## adam6177 (Aug 7, 2022)

ManchestVAR United normal decisions resume for this season I see. Crazy.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 7, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			The first “how is that not a penalty?” of the season.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555972827647541248

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And the 2nd of the season just now at old Trafford!


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2022)

Three easy chances missed, bring on Garnacho ..................................... NOW!


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2022)




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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2022)

After yesterdays poor show that's just Brighton'd my weekend 😉


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## chrisd (Aug 7, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 43741

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Or maybe Nooooooooooooo !!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			And the 2nd of the season just now at old Trafford!
		
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I'm not surprised when Tierney is anywhwere near a football field.


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## paddyc (Aug 7, 2022)

Erik's at the wheel......at the wheel😆😆


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2022)

Is anyone actually surprised at that scoreline?
I'm not.


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2022)

At least some of the miserable old gits on this forum have cheered up for a short while.
Marginal gains and all that.


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## chrisd (Aug 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			At least some of the miserable old gits on this forum have cheered up for a short while.
Marginal gains and all that.
		
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That's unfair Slime, I've cheered up for the whole week !


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## Bazzatron (Aug 7, 2022)

Conor Coady on his way to Everton. Loan deal which is stupid when we need the cash and Everton are desperate. Should've rinsed them.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			Is anyone actually surprised at that scoreline?
I'm not.
		
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Not after watching the game.

Brighton were deserved winners, they play a really good standard of football.

I understand the frustration at half time but booing them wont help.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 7, 2022)

its only 45 mins into our season but if this is what we are going to be offered by antonio when things dont go his way please just bench him.

id rather see 45 mins of scamacca trying to make a good impression than antonio giving up and just laying down when he loses the ball

just believing his own hype now.

scored 1 goal in the league since December.. no need for the air of arrogance.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Conor Coady on his way to Everton. Loan deal which is stupid when we need the cash and Everton are desperate. Should've rinsed them.
		
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I dont understand this move, as he been told he's surplus at Wolves because i'd say it's a step down for him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 7, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Conor Coady on his way to Everton. Loan deal which is stupid when we need the cash and Everton are desperate. Should've rinsed them.
		
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Considering how wasteful we have been in recent times, with Godfrey and Mina out for however long, this is a great deal for us. Coady and Tarkowski as a central partnership sounds pretty solid.

I think we are guaranteeing to buy him next summer for around £12m. We don't have spare, ffp rules, to do it this year. It doesn’t give wolves instant money but he is off your wages and presumably we will be paying a loan fee.

I'm guessing his contract is either ending soon or the manager really doesn't like him 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 7, 2022)

This Harland lad can finish.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			Is anyone actually surprised at that scoreline?
I'm not.
		
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I was it should have been three.
How’s that not a penalty .?


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## pauljames87 (Aug 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			This Harland lad can finish.
		
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He reminds me of van nistlroy (spelling)

City going to score even more with him now 

What a signing


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## Bazzatron (Aug 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Considering how wasteful we have been in recent times, with Godfrey and Mina out for however long, this is a great deal for us. Coady and Tarkowski as a central partnership sounds pretty solid.

I think we are guaranteeing to buy him next summer for around £12m. We don't have spare, ffp rules, to do it this year. It doesn’t give wolves instant money but he is off your wages and presumably we will be paying a loan fee.

I'm guessing his contract is either ending soon or the manager really doesn't like him 🤷🏻‍♂️
		
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Nope, ages left on his new deal. We've switched to a back 4 instead of a 5 so i think hes been told hes down the order. He 100% cannot play in a 4, you'll be playing 5 at the back if it goes through, we created nothing last season and we're so boring to watch, had to make a change to get another man further forward


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## Bazzatron (Aug 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont understand this move, as he been told he's surplus at Wolves because i'd say it's a step down for him.
		
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Don't think he's been told that but there's definitely others in front of him. Wouldn't fancy him in a back 4 and he'll need to play to go the world cup.


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## Beezerk (Aug 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He reminds me of van nistlroy (spelling)
		
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Van Nistlroy on steroids, the guy is an athlete.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He reminds me of van nistlroy (spelling)

City going to score even more with him now

What a signing
		
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Yes the run for the second goal was perfect.
With City’s midfield he knows if he makes the run the ball will follow.
Didn’t realise how fast he is as well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 7, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Nope, ages left on his new deal. We've switched to a back 4 instead of a 5 so i think hes been told hes down the order. He 100% cannot play in a 4, you'll be playing 5 at the back if it goes through, we created nothing last season and we're so boring to watch, had to make a change to get another man further forward
		
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Lampard is all over a 5 so that should suit. I don't see wolves much. What is his issue in a 4?


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			This Harland lad can finish.
		
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..................... and so he should, he is the best on the planet.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2022)

Utd after Arnautovic. 😳


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Utd after Arnautovic. 😳
		
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So typical of our pathetic, useless, greedy, lying owners.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2022)

Slime said:





So typical of our pathetic, useless, greedy, lying owners.
		
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I had to Google that it was the player I was thinking of


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## BrianM (Aug 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I had to Google that it was the player I was thinking of
		
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Not the boy that was at West Ham?


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## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Not the boy that was at West Ham?
		
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unfortunately yes.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2022)

Slime said:





So typical of our pathetic, useless, greedy, lying owners.
		
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Why is it the owners at fault here ?


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 7, 2022)

Have Paddy Power paid out already on Man City winning the Premier League this season?


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## Dando (Aug 7, 2022)

Listened to the man city game on the radio - how on earth is Clinton Morrison allowed anywhere a studio.
he’s to punditry what I am to chipping


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2022)

Dando said:



			Listened to the man city game on the radio - how on earth is Clinton Morrison allowed anywhere a studio.
he’s to punditry what I am to chipping
		
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He's awful. I expect pundits to give their opinion based on their knowledge of the game. His knowldege fits on the back of a postage stamp.


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## BrianM (Aug 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He's awful. I expect pundits to give their opinion based on their knowledge of the game. His knowldege fits on the back of a postage stamp.
		
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He’s absolutely murder on soccer Saturday, bring back the old guard 😂


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## Bazzatron (Aug 7, 2022)

BrianM said:



			He’s absolutely murder on soccer Saturday, bring back the old guard 😂
		
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Le Tissier is too busy showing everyone why heading should be banned.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Lampard is all over a 5 so that should suit. I don't see wolves much. What is his issue in a 4?
		
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I don't want to list his faults as he's been invaluable to us since he was converted into a sweeper, but he often needs the protection of another two centre halves. His passing range is superb as it should be for a former centre mid.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes the run for the second goal was perfect.
With City’s midfield he knows if he makes the run the ball will follow.
Didn’t realise how fast he is as well.
		
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Me neither. I was shocked just how quick he was 

Breezed past us. Don't get me wrong our defence was poor 

But jezz he was class 

He going to be a real asset to the league 

Taking the postives from the game scamacca did more in 30 odd mins than Antonio managed most of the second half of the season 

Nice to see a proper striker and he looks interesting

Just need a Lb and a replacement for diop it seems he has a deal agreed with Fulham but we won't sell until we sign someone and looks like we aren't playing him either


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## AliMc (Aug 7, 2022)

Dando said:



			Listened to the man city game on the radio - how on earth is Clinton Morrison allowed anywhere a studio.
he’s to punditry what I am to chipping
		
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I said this last year too, he is absolutely awful, had to switch it off a couple of times just couldn't stand listening to him anymore


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2022)

Dando said:



			Listened to the man city game on the radio - how on earth is Clinton Morrison allowed anywhere a studio.
he’s to punditry what I am to chipping
		
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He is as bad as the likes of Trevor Sinclair , Agbonlahor and Darren Bent


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			..................... and so he should, he is the best on the planet.
		
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And City got him for peanuts


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## RRidges (Aug 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			This Harland lad can finish.
		
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Well, a fellow by the name of Haaland can (unfortunately!)!


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it the owners at fault here ?
		
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Because they won't put their hands in their pockets for a proper striker.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2022)

Slime said:



			Because they won't put their hands in their pockets for a proper striker.
		
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Or a “proper” striker doesn’t want to go to Man Utd due to a lack of CL football and where they are right now as a club 🤷‍♂️

It’s the same issue Liverpool had for years - no CL hurts the club in more ways than one 

They have spent a heck of a lot of money over the last 5/6 years 

Owners putting their hands in their pockets isn’t the issue you have


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## 4LEX (Aug 8, 2022)

Ten Hag found out today the gulf in quality between a fourth rate league and the Premier League is vast. Stick Brighton in the Dutch league and they'd win it by miles.

Rumours of a move for Arnautovic says it all about him and the club's outlook. Really sad to see England's biggest club making the same mistakes over and over.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 8, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Ten Hag found out today the gulf in quality between a fourth rate league and the Premier League is vast. Stick Brighton in the Dutch league and they'd win it by miles.

Rumours of a move for Arnautovic says it all about him and the club's outlook. Really sad to see England's biggest club making the same mistakes over and over.
		
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There’s nothing sad about it. United and their smug fans were insufferable for years. Nice to see them knocked down a peg or six


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			There’s nothing sad about it. United and their smug fans were insufferable for years. Nice to see them knocked down a peg or six 

Click to expand...

Long may it continue. Payback is nowhere near to ending yet 😄


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Long may it continue. Payback is nowhere near to ending yet 😄
		
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Yes indeed. Might be an easy 3 points for Forest on Boxing Day at this rate too 🤞🏼


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

Nice to see Manchester United is the most talked about football club on Golf Monthly. 

Things will be different when we sign De Jong, I'm sure the deal will get done by about 2032, when he is 35 years old.


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## BiMGuy (Aug 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Nice to see Manchester United is the most laughed at football club on Golf Monthly.
		
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Fixed that for you! 😄


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## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Ten Hag found out today the gulf in quality between a fourth rate league and the Premier League is vast. Stick Brighton in the Dutch league and they'd win it by miles.

Rumours of a move for Arnautovic says it all about him and the club's outlook. Really sad to see England's biggest club making the same mistakes over and over.
		
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Ave said for a few years, that quite a few lower placed prem league teams have really been organised when they have played against City. They have adapted and been really tough to break down. I put Brighton firmly in that bracket. They are not just organised but fit. They put some serious work rate in. I watched the Brighton second goal and if I was TH I would of brought Bruno Fernandez off straight away, his tracking back was nothing short of disgraceful. He trotted back with no commitment until the Brighton player cut inside and shot. If Fernades is back into position that don’t happen. The ball is played back to keep possession.
I watched City yesterday, KDB there is so much said about his passing, goals etc. But he never shirks the graft and defensive commitments. It seems to me that some Utd players still turn up and just don’t get it. I can see TH getting brutal. What I will say him not playing Ronaldo shows me he will not mess around.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Ave said for a few years, that quite a few lower placed prem league teams have really been organised when they have played against City. They have adapted and been really tough to break down. I put Brighton firmly in that bracket. They are not just organised but fit. They put some serious work rate in. I watched the Brighton second goal and if I was TH I would of brought Bruno Fernandez off straight away, his tracking back was nothing short of disgraceful. He trotted back with no commitment until the Brighton player cut inside and shot. If Fernades is back into position that don’t happen. The ball is played back to keep possession.
I watched City yesterday, KDB there is so much said about his passing, goals etc. But he never shirks the graft and defensive commitments. It seems to me that some Utd players still turn up and just don’t get it. I can see TH getting brutal. What I will say him not playing Ronaldo shows me he will not mess around.
		
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I can see Bruno being dropped to prove a point, put Erikssen in there. We'll still be rubbish, as we continue to have McFred in that midfield, both of who are severely lacking in any quality. But, Bruno has become a fancy dan player, and when his attacking skills are failing him (often now), he offers little else apart from a lot of crying and moaning. 

I feel sorry for the defenders. I know they, especially Maguire, get huge criticism. But, look who they have in front of them. Fred and McTomminay do a great job of hiding being opponents, or giving the ball away as soon as they get it. If I was Maguire, even if a pass might be on occasionally, I'd be in 2 minds of actually making that pass. I'd need to be convinced they have about 15 yards of space before risking that pass, knowing there is a good chance they'll get tackled, or worse still, play a through ball directly to the opposition attacker as soon as they get it. 

I'm hoping this season will simply be about ten Hag seeing how bad many of those players are. If we start next season with Fred and McTomminay, I'll be scared.  I just hope we avoid relegation.

However, on a positive note, we are only 3 points behind City as it stands


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## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I can see Bruno being dropped to prove a point, put Erikssen in there. We'll still be rubbish, as we continue to have McFred in that midfield, both of who are severely lacking in any quality. But, Bruno has become a fancy dan player, and when his attacking skills are failing him (often now), he offers little else apart from a lot of crying and moaning.

I feel sorry for the defenders. I know they, especially Maguire, get huge criticism. But, look who they have in front of them. Fred and McTomminay do a great job of hiding being opponents, or giving the ball away as soon as they get it. If I was Maguire, even if a pass might be on occasionally, I'd be in 2 minds of actually making that pass. I'd need to be convinced they have about 15 yards of space before risking that pass, knowing there is a good chance they'll get tackled, or worse still, play a through ball directly to the opposition attacker as soon as they get it.

I'm hoping this season will simply be about ten Hag seeing how bad many of those players are. If we start next season with Fred and McTomminay, I'll be scared.  I just hope we avoid relegation.

However, on a positive note, we are only 3 points behind City as it stands
		
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I honestly see Utd in the same position as Arsenal were when they brought in Arteta. They are a couple of seasons away from competing over a full season. They have the right person to do that now.


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## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Nice to see Manchester United is the most talked about football club on Golf Monthly.

Things will be different when we sign De Jong, I'm sure the deal will get done by about 2032, when he is 35 years old.
		
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Either that or they'll sign Nigel De Jong instead of Frenkie by accident.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I honestly see Utd in the same position as Arsenal were when they brought in Arteta. They are a couple of seasons away from competing over a full season. They have the right person to do that now.
		
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It is just difficult to see why we hold on to so many bang average players for so long. It is almost like they have become really good buddies with people on the board. Hang out socially, have family days out, etc. And, when push comes to shove, there are people on the board that don't have the heart to move them out of the club.

I'm sure it cannot possibly be like that, but I just don't get it. I mean, what on earth is going on with Phil Jones!? He must be happy to just get paid by the club, but never actually play, therefore having no football ambitions. Otherwise you'd think he would try and get a move, even a loan move, elsewhere long ago. I wonder who decided it would be a good idea to offer him a 4-year contract in 2019? I don't even know his playing history in detail, but even Wikipedia stated he renewed his contract in 2015 by 4 years, and then the very next sentence was he signed another 4 year deal in 2019. No football highlights to discuss in between. All the football chat was pre 2015, and then post Jan 2020. Although the post 2020 football statements were simply about him scoring his 1st goal in over 5 years against Tranmere, and his return to the 1st team in nearly 2 years in 2022. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if he got another 4 year deal in 2023


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 8, 2022)




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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 8, 2022)

I notice those Utd fans complaining about this cart horse or that cart horse they have, but no mention of the waste that is Ronaldo. He’s far to disruptive for any manager to come in and change things.
Long may it continue


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## IanM (Aug 8, 2022)

If it lessens the Daves from Dagenham calling phone ins giving it "we this,"and "we that" about Man U, it can't be a bad thing.  

Brighton and home, never an easy game!🤣


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## GB72 (Aug 8, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I notice those Utd fans complaining about this cart horse or that cart horse they have, but no mention of the waste that is Ronaldo. He’s far to disruptive for any manager to come in and change things.
Long may it continue

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Never understood why they did not take him up on his offer to rip up his contract and walk. One less disruptive voice, one less problem for the manager and a massive chunk off the wage bill.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2022)

Fernandes has turned into the ultimate show pony. Even Tierney never fell for his theatrics yesterday.

LP was right about him afterall.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I notice those Utd fans complaining about this cart horse or that cart horse they have, but no mention of the waste that is Ronaldo. He’s far to disruptive for any manager to come in and change things.
Long may it continue

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Ronaldo was the only shining light, apart from DeGea, last year. Opinions on him were split, simply because the team were so bad. Some liked to pin a lot of the blame on Ronaldo. It is a stretch given none of us know how he is in the dressing room with other players. Personally, I'd prefer to pin the blame on the players who can't perform on the pitch. Especially big players like Bruno. I think he got it easy last year. Loads of people criticising Ronaldo while he bangs the goals in, whilst Bruno gets off extremely lightly for doing bog all,

However, I think you'll find there are a lot of Utd fans being critical of Ronaldo since last season. The fact that him (or his team) came out and said they wanted out, after Utd and ten Hag had already said they wanted him to stay, seemed like a massive let down. Not going on pre-season doesn't seem acceptable, the whole "family reasons" just sounds like an easy excuse. Him and others leaving a friendly match early is out of order.

You want your team to be a team. Give their all when they are on the pitch, fight for their team mates. And, when not on the pitch, support their team mates that are out there. Problem is, United really have no other decent striking options. We've got rid of so many players as well, and have big weaknesses in many other positions. We don't have a decent RB and no decent holding midfielders. The jury is out on centre backs, and our wingers have been awful. So, get rid of Ronaldo now, all United do is cause a huge problem in another position, with absolutely no confidence they'll be able to fix it in the short term.

Still, given that Ronaldo has said he wants to leave, I suspect if another big European club wanted him, there'd be a good chance they'd just let him go. But, it is sounding like none of the big clubs want him. I also believe that, even if he is still at Utd, he is still the sort of guy that is determined to play and score goals. So, while no one else wants him, we might as well make use of that attribute. Meanwhile, some long term planning will be needed, and ten Hag should be able to quickly see what players are lost causes


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## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2022)

Imagine thinking that having the best footballer of all time up front was 'the problem'.  I think there's quite a few problems, and I'm not sure I can believe that was the biggest one.


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## BiMGuy (Aug 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Imagine thinking that having the best footballer of all time up front was 'the problem'.  I think there's quite a few problems, and I'm not sure I can believe that was the biggest one.
		
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Messi doesn’t play for ManU 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Imagine thinking that having the best footballer of all time up front was 'the problem'.  I think there's quite a few problems, and I'm not sure I can believe that was the biggest one.
		
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Yeah. The only way I can see Ronaldo being the problem, is that people say he is the problem so much that the other United players begin to believe it. They have a nice excuse for their own woeful performances, whilst Ronaldo gets most of the blame (on an individual basis). I can see that being incredibly frustrating for him as well. Basically playing with a bunch of useless players, who are effectively heaping all the negative press on him.


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## GB72 (Aug 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah. The only way I can see Ronaldo being the problem, is that people say he is the problem so much that the other United players begin to believe it. They have a nice excuse for their own woeful performances, whilst Ronaldo gets most of the blame (on an individual basis). I can see that being incredibly frustrating for him as well. Basically playing with a bunch of useless players, who are effectively heaping all the negative press on him.
		
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Again, will start by saying that my football knowledge is limited at best so could be very wrong. 

Was it not said befor the came back that Bruno and Ronaldo really did not like each other at all. After that, has Bruno just nosedived in his effort and quality of performance since Ronaldo came back. Is it possible that Ronaldo the player is not a problem but his impact on some other key players and even his perceived influence at the club could cause problems.


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## Paperboy (Aug 8, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Again, will start by saying that my football knowledge is limited at best so could be very wrong.

Was it not said befor the came back that Bruno and Ronaldo really did not like each other at all. After that, has Bruno just nosedived in his effort and quality of performance since Ronaldo came back. Is it possible that Ronaldo the player is not a problem but his impact on some other key players and even his perceived influence at the club could cause problems.
		
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They get paid an exceptional amount of money a week to play football. They should be able to deal with people they've issues with. It's no different to say the 2 people at work that I struggle with.


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## GB72 (Aug 8, 2022)

Paperboy said:



			They get paid an exceptional amount of money a week to play football. They should be able to deal with people they've issues with. It's no different to say the 2 people at work that I struggle with.
		
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Sadly that exceptional amount of money also buys egos well above those found in the normal work place and the money attached to the players means that you cannot simply threaten people with dismissal if they do not work together. That makes it a far more tricky situation.


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## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Again, will start by saying that my football knowledge is limited at best so could be very wrong.

Was it not said befor the came back that Bruno and Ronaldo really did not like each other at all. After that, has Bruno just nosedived in his effort and quality of performance since Ronaldo came back. Is it possible that Ronaldo the player is not a problem but his impact on some other key players and even his perceived influence at the club could cause problems.
		
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I would argue that's their problem, not his.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Again, will start by saying that my football knowledge is limited at best so could be very wrong.

Was it not said befor the came back that Bruno and Ronaldo really did not like each other at all. After that, has Bruno just nosedived in his effort and quality of performance since Ronaldo came back. Is it possible that Ronaldo the player is not a problem but his impact on some other key players and even his perceived influence at the club could cause problems.
		
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I don't know what goes on in the dressing room. Who is it that tells us that Bruno and Ronaldo do not like each other? A reliable source?

There is some thought that because Bruno is not the star attraction at United, he can't accept that and his form has nosedived. If that was the case, he shouldn't be at any big club. It is not like he can remain at a big club, and not expect them to ever make any major signings whilst he is there. I never remember Scholes getting mardy when Utd bought the likes of Ronaldo or Rooney, worried they'd steel his limelight.

Even if Bruno and Ronaldo are not best mates, that is no excuse for Bruno. Roy Keane wasn't best mates with many of his team mates, and even got into a few fights with some at times (Keane versus Schmeichel for example). However, Keane and the players he didn't get on with still managed to play to a high standard. 

I'd put all the other United players, not just Bruno, in that camp. If they genuinely have lost form because of Ronaldo, they shouldn't be at a big club. Whether that be because they've started to rely solely on him rather than take responsibility themselves, or if he is too demanding for them, either way they are not up to it.


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## GB72 (Aug 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I would argue that's their problem, not his.
		
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Would not disagree with that but whoever has the problem is irrelevant to the overall position in that it is a club problem and a team problem


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## GB72 (Aug 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't know what goes on in the dressing room. Who is it that tells us that Bruno and Ronaldo do not like each other? A reliable source?

There is some thought that because Bruno is not the star attraction at United, he can't accept that and his form has nosedived. If that was the case, he shouldn't be at any big club. It is not like he can remain at a big club, and not expect them to ever make any major signings whilst he is there. I never remember Scholes getting mardy when Utd bought the likes of Ronaldo or Rooney, worried they'd steel his limelight.

Even if Bruno and Ronaldo are not best mates, that is no excuse for Bruno. Roy Keane wasn't best mates with many of his team mates, and even got into a few fights with some at times (Keane versus Schmeichel for example). However, Keane and the players he didn't get on with still managed to play to a high standard.

I'd put all the other United players, not just Bruno, in that camp. If they genuinely have lost form because of Ronaldo, they shouldn't be at a big club. Whether that be because they've started to rely solely on him rather than take responsibility themselves, or if he is too demanding for them, either way they are not up to it.
		
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Do not disagree with any of that at all. From a practical point of view, if there are issues and, again, I am only going from reports I hear on the radio, read on the news etc and could be totally false, then there was the opportunity offered for a solution to rip up the ocntact and let Ronaldo go. That would seem the cheapest and quickest opion whilst freeing up a chunk of salary for a new signing. May not be the right way to do things but if Ronaldo is not happy and there is friction with another player, it is the quickest solution.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Imagine thinking that having the best footballer of all time up front was 'the problem'.  I think there's quite a few problems, and I'm not sure I can believe that was the biggest one.
		
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The issue isn't the quality of Ronaldo but the knock on impact of how he plays, how the rest of the team have to play around him. In effect, he has upset the balance of the side. He can knock in another 20 odd goals and the stats will look great. No use if it's a repeat of last season though.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Would not disagree with that but whoever has the problem is irrelevant to the overall position in that it is a club problem and a team problem
		
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The interesting test would be to see what would happen if we got rid of Ronaldo. Do people genuinely believe we'd quickly be a much better side, without him and all the same players we have now? Would Fred and McTomminay start to dominate the midfield area. Would the defence be solid. Would Bruno be the player he was when he joined the club, and Rashford play like Mbappe? Would Martial score 18+ goals?

If we got rid of Ronaldo, it would be nice to think United would become a much stronger side. Although, that also is scary in that, if United ever try to bring in another marquee signing, will the other players start huffing and getting back into the same pattern?

However, the big risk is that if we got rid of Ronaldo, the players that remain would still be absolute garbage, and they'd also no longer have a player that can score goals


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## GB72 (Aug 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The interesting test would be to see what would happen if we got rid of Ronaldo. Do people genuinely believe we'd quickly be a much better side, without him and all the same players we have now? Would Fred and McTomminay start to dominate the midfield area. Would the defence be solid. Would Bruno be the player he was when he joined the club, and Rashford play like Mbappe? Would Martial score 18+ goals?

If we got rid of Ronaldo, it would be nice to think United would become a much stronger side. Although, that also is scary in that, if United ever try to bring in another marquee signing, will the other players start huffing and getting back into the same pattern?

However, the big risk is that if we got rid of Ronaldo, the players that remain would still be absolute garbage, and they'd also no longer have a player that can score goals
		
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Actually, it is not impossible of you take the rugby team I support as an example. Tigers were relegation fodder for 2 years in a row then we got in a new coach and lost a couple of players who were potentially disruptive as they would not sign reduced contracts over covid. We finished 6th the next year and won the league the year after. Not saying that could happen in premier league football but a team playing for each other and the club without ego and disruptive influences can improve massively with that is ostensibly the same personnel.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Actually, it is not impossible of you take the rugby team I support as an example. Tigers were relegation fodder for 2 years in a row then we got in a new coach and lost a couple of players who were potentially disruptive as they would not sign reduced contracts over covid. We finished 6th the next year and won the league the year after. Not saying that could happen in premier league football but a team playing for each other and the club without ego and disruptive influences can improve massively with that is ostensibly the same personnel.
		
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There is no doubt that ten Hag needs to build a squad without disruption in the dressing room. But, it was never going to happen before his first competitive game in charge. And, we have already got rid of some many Senior players since last season, it really will take some time to rebuild. Shame on the club for allowing it to ever get to this situation, it has been building for years.

It was easier when Ferguson was in charge. He'd quickly get rid of a big player causing disruption, but knew he had so many other quality players with strong personalities to rely on. And, they would then add a marquee player every now and then to freshen things up. Ten Hag is not in that position, and it is only hope that the club will help him get to that position, but I still doubt them.


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## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The issue isn't the quality of Ronaldo but the knock on impact of how he plays, how the rest of the team have to play around him. In effect, he has upset the balance of the side. He can knock in another 20 odd goals and the stats will look great. No use if it's a repeat of last season though.
		
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I think the biggest problem is that the recruitment has been shocking, and that's nothing to do with Ronaldo. Spunking all the money on Maguire who is a mid-table defender at best. They still don't have a defensive midfielder after God knows how long. Rashford is not good enough but they've still hung onto him and not replaced him. If Ronaldo upsets the team it's largely because those other players are nowhere near the required quality to play with him. CR must be looking around thinking "is this really Man Utd?? It's not how I remember it at all."


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## GB72 (Aug 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			There is no doubt that ten Hag needs to build a squad without disruption in the dressing room. But, it was never going to happen before his first competitive game in charge. And, we have already got rid of some many Senior players since last season, it really will take some time to rebuild. Shame on the club for allowing it to ever get to this situation, it has been building for years.

It was easier when Ferguson was in charge. He'd quickly get rid of a big player causing disruption, but knew he had so many other quality players with strong personalities to rely on. And, they would then add a marquee player every now and then to freshen things up. Ten Hag is not in that position, and it is only hope that the club will help him get to that position, but I still doubt them.
		
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Again, from an outsider with only a passing interest, I can agree about the issues with the club. This De Ligt thing just baffles me. From the reports at the weekend, Barcelona have been told to sell him by the end of the week if they want to register their 5 new signings and they still cannot get it over the line. As it stands, both the the player and buying club have Barcelona over an absolute barrell and yet no deal can be made. Cannot see how De Ligt can stay at Barcelona now. If 5 players representing over £200million in investment including the new star striker are in the stands because they cannot be registered because De Ligt would not leave, the fans are going to make his life hell. I can only assume he is holding on for another club to step in, which would really reflect badly on United if he foes elsewhere.


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## fundy (Aug 8, 2022)

At what point do football authorities step in at Barca? Theyre now threatening previous board and a handful of players with legal action over their contracts signed a few years ago!!!!

https://theathletic.com/3484447/202...tract-legal-action/?source=emp_shared_article


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## fundy (Aug 8, 2022)

sounds like Rabiot going to United from Juve


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## GB72 (Aug 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			At what point do football authorities step in at Barca? Theyre now threatening previous board and a handful of players with legal action over their contracts signed a few years ago!!!!

https://theathletic.com/3484447/202...tract-legal-action/?source=emp_shared_article

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They do seem to be too big to take any action against. They are asking players to take pay cuts and defer wages whilst outspending everyone on transfer fees, they have sold the family silvet to fund this, they cannot even register the players that they are signing and now this. Oh and are they not one of the clubs who would not recant their involvement in the super league and are still pushing for it. I just do not get it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think the biggest problem is that the recruitment has been shocking, and that's nothing to do with Ronaldo. Spunking all the money on Maguire who is a mid-table defender at best. They still don't have a defensive midfielder after God knows how long. Rashford is not good enough but they've still hung onto him and not replaced him. If Ronaldo upsets the team it's largely because those other players are nowhere near the required quality to play with him. CR must be looking around thinking "is this really Man Utd?? It's not how I remember it at all." 

Click to expand...

I agree that there are a range of issues at utd but they were actually progressing the year before Ronaldo arrived. Fernandes was excellent, Cavani was finally given a game and was scoring for fun. Old Ronaldo didn't fit what was required and his goals don't cover that, odd though that statement may seem, imo.


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## fundy (Aug 8, 2022)

GB72 said:



			They do seem to be too big to take any action against. They are asking players to take pay cuts and defer wages whilst outspending everyone on transfer fees, they have sold the family silvet to fund this, they cannot even register the players that they are signing and now this. Oh and are they not one of the clubs who would not recant their involvement in the super league and are still pushing for it. I just do not get it.
		
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Theyre now saying the deferred wage contracts were illegal and want them annulled and to revert to the previous contracts, whilst simultaneously threatening legal action on the players and the board at that time.

If it was a film script you'd say it had got too far fetched a long time ago............


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## GB72 (Aug 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			Theyre now saying the deferred wage contracts were illegal and want them annulled and to revert to the previous contracts, whilst simultaneously threatening legal action on the players and the board at that time.

If it was a film script you'd say it had got too far fetched a long time ago............
		
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And this is even more bonkers as they need something to happen quick to register their new players but have come up with a solution that could take years. Plus, unless things are very different in Spain, the company (Club) is tied by the decisions of the board and as guilty of any illegality as the individuals. 

God to add to that the way they are dealing with Chelsea. They brazenly waltz in and sign a defender on the verge of signing for Chelsea and they act shocked that Chelsea will not sell them 2 more of their defenders.


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## fundy (Aug 8, 2022)

Another "fun" story this morning on social media re Barca 

Spanish radio are claiming Barcelona jointly set-up a holdings company to which it paid €150m of its own money to buy its own assets (to inflate value of sale). La Liga rejected it as not "new" money. Barça must now pay €37.5m tax on this payment.


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## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2022)

Just as we were talking about Utd recruitment, they've apparently signed Rabiot. Again, he's not really a defensive midfielder which they need. Just another Fred if anything?


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Again, from an outsider with only a passing interest, I can agree about the issues with the club. This De Ligt thing just baffles me. From the reports at the weekend, Barcelona have been told to sell him by the end of the week if they want to register their 5 new signings and they still cannot get it over the line. As it stands, both the the player and buying club have Barcelona over an absolute barrell and yet no deal can be made. Cannot see how De Ligt can stay at Barcelona now. If 5 players representing over £200million in investment including the new star striker are in the stands because they cannot be registered because De Ligt would not leave, the fans are going to make his life hell. I can only assume he is holding on for another club to step in, which would really reflect badly on United if he foes elsewhere.
		
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We'll replace De Ligt with De Jong. What is going on at Barcelona is bizarre. The longer it goes on, the more I realise it can't have anything to do with him absolutely not wanting to go to United. It seems he and Barcelona are playing chicken to see who blinks first about this money owed.


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## GB72 (Aug 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			We'll replace De Ligt with De Jong. What is going on at Barcelona is bizarre. The longer it goes on, the more I realise it can't have anything to do with him absolutely not wanting to go to United. It seems he and Barcelona are playing chicken to see who blinks first about this money owed.
		
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It is quite fascinating in a car crash TV sort of way. Cannot see any winners in this if he does not leave. I suspect that Barcelona have either figuratively or literally spent the transfer fee so cannot agree to a large chunk of it going to the player in wages.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I agree that there are a range of issues at utd but they were actually progressing the year before Ronaldo arrived. Fernandes was excellent, Cavani was finally given a game and was scoring for fun. Old Ronaldo didn't fit what was required and his goals don't cover that, odd though that statement may seem, imo.
		
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We also need to remember that during that season, Liverpool were woeful compared to how they had been playing, and played the following seasons. Chelsea were not great, Spurs finished 7th and Arsenal 8th (despite winning at least their last 5 games). Even City started badly, but then had a fantastic second half of the season. So, with a few months before the end of the season, United were never really in it and there was no pressure. Even Ole was giving the players excuses, talking about it being a building process, so there was no expectation put on them. It was also a season United went behind a ridiculous amount of times, and probably played as we do now in pretty much every first half. However, somehow they managed to turn it around so often, and got a win. Yes, credit to them for that, and opposition probably had a bit of the fear how United could play in the second half. But, that was never sustainable, and if we continued to start so slowly out of the blocks, and stop turning it around, then confidence would drop and we'd end up a mess. Which has happened.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Just as we were talking about Utd recruitment, they've apparently signed Rabiot. Again, he's not really a defensive midfielder which they need. Just another Fred if anything?
		
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From a football point of view, he must be better than Fred?

Not seen him play much, however wiki says "despite his talent and ability, however, he has come under criticism over his behaviour off the pitch, and has also been accused in the media of lacking professionalism, as well as having a poor attitude and a difficult character".

If that is true, make sense United are trying to sign him


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## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			From a football point of view, he must be better than Fred?

Not seen him play much, however wiki says "despite his talent and ability, however, he has come under criticism over his behaviour off the pitch, and has also been accused in the media of lacking professionalism, as well as having a poor attitude and a difficult character".

If that is true, make sense United are trying to sign him 

Click to expand...

Honestly not seen him play a lot, I don't watch Juve or PSG where he was before. He's definitely taller than Fred so he has that going for him. I just meant the position he plays is basically Fred's - box-to-box, left-footed. I don't believe he's a defensive midfielder anyway so can't see him improving the team much.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Honestly not seen him play a lot, I don't watch Juve or PSG where he was before. He's definitely taller than Fred so he has that going for him. I just meant the position he plays is basically Fred's - box-to-box, left-footed. I don't believe he's a defensive midfielder anyway so can't see him improving the team much.
		
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I'd like to think he could improve the team, if he played instead of Fred.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 8, 2022)

We’ve got massive problems at Utd bigger than I can ever remember.
Ten Hag is not the answer,he never was and never will be.
The powers that be need to recognise managing Utd is different,it’s beyond 99% of managers in the game today.
Massive changing room egos need controlling.
I’ve been a massive advocate of bringing Ronaldo in being a good decision,now holding the club to ransom is unforgivable.
Now he’s going nowhere he needs to play as a 9 pure and simple.
The names being linked with Utd are embarrassing.
Not being able attract some of the players available,and that have been purchased,shows how far we’ve fallen and how C/L qualifying is crucial.
Forget this year for that.
It’s going to be a long season,a hard season and imo another trophy less season.
Ten Hag will go one way or another,and whoever comes in ,in the future imo needs to be massive.
I would go Poch with what he’s done in the Premiership 
Would welcome Simeone as he would certainly shake it up,although not keen on his teams antics.
Or even Zidane as he’s used to big egos.
Other than them the talent and availability is limited.


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## fundy (Aug 8, 2022)

Sarr just scored for Watford from inside his own half


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## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sarr just scored for Watford from inside his own half 

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What a goal that was aswell, loved how he took it out the sky, deft touch then fizzed it right in the goal.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sarr just scored for Watford from inside his own half 

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Great goal
Now just faking an injury when hardly touched.
The good and the very bad of football.
The last one just pees me right off.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2022)

A quality finish from Grant for the WBA equaliser


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## fundy (Aug 8, 2022)

12 yards far too close for Sarr 

1-2 backers sigh


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## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2022)

Pretty poor pen to be honest


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## fundy (Aug 8, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Pretty poor pen to be honest
		
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horrific, costly too


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## Bazzatron (Aug 8, 2022)

You'll never guess where our new signing is from


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## Slime (Aug 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Or a “proper” striker doesn’t want to go to Man Utd *due to a lack of CL football and where they are right now as a club 🤷‍♂️

It’s the same issue Liverpool had for years - no CL hurts the club in more ways than one

They have spent a heck of a lot of money over the last 5/6 years

*Owners putting their hands in their pockets isn’t the issue you have*

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Anthony of Ajax does.
Owners putting their hands in their pockets for the right players IS the issue I have!
If they don't sell shirts, the owners aren't interested.


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## Slime (Aug 8, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Ten Hag found out today the gulf in quality between a fourth rate league and the Premier League is vast. Stick Brighton in the Dutch league and they'd win it by miles.

*Rumours of a move for Arnautovic says it all about him* and the club's outlook. Really sad to see England's biggest club making the same mistakes over and over.
		
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No, it says all we need to know about the owners. Blaming ETH is just ridiculous.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2022)

Slime said:



			Anthony of Ajax does.
Owners putting their hands in their pockets for the right players IS the issue I have!
If they don't sell shirts, the owners aren't interested.

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Antony ? Another winger isn’t he ? And £80mil was asked ?! 

And surely it’s up to the recruitment team up get the right players not the owners


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## Slime (Aug 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Antony ? Another winger isn’t he ? And £80mil was asked ?!

And surely it’s up to the recruitment team up get the right players not the owners
		
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The recruitment team are just mouth pieces for the Glazers, they do their bidding.
No replacements for McFred for years, I don't blame the managers for that.
The sooner the Glazers sod off, the better, but that won't happen any time soon as United are their cash cow that hands them millions every year.


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## fundy (Aug 8, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			You'll never guess where our new signing is from
		
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same country the last 174 have been?


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## chrisd (Aug 8, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			You'll never guess where our new signing is from
		
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Chipping Sodburys 3rd eleven reserves ?


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## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			No, it says all we need to know about the owners. Blaming ETH is just ridiculous.
		
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62471576
just about sums it up.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			12 yards far too close for Sarr 

1-2 backers sigh 

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I was waiting on over 2.5 goals for a tidy bet builder🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556977385551151104


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## Slime (Aug 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556977385551151104

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They're probably going for him because Bendtner is not available!


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## Slime (Aug 9, 2022)

It'll be interesting to see how quiet this thread will get should United accidentally win a game!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			It'll be interesting to see how quiet this thread will get should United accidentally win a game!
		
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Utd won games last year but utd fans still grumbled on here about the performance. It isn't just about results. Things will change when you starting winning again in style.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Utd won games last year but utd fans still grumbled on here about the performance. It isn't just about results. Things will change when you starting winning again in style.
		
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I'm guessing his point was more to do with the fact it isn't just United fans that love talking about United when they lose a game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm guessing his point was more to do with the fact it isn't just United fans that love talking about United when they lose a game.
		
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The same can be said about all the top teams - if Liverpool lost then it wouldn’t be any different

There are many fans out there that enjoy watching them both lose as much as their own team winning - guess it’s the price to pay for being the most successful clubs in the country 😁

Man Utd had two decades of success - and now some enjoy the downward path 

It’s the same after Liverpools two decades of success - they had a downward path and Man Utd are where Liverpool were through the 90’s and 00’s


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm guessing his point was more to do with the fact it isn't just United fans that love talking about United when they lose a game.
		
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As per LP's post, whenever a team is wobbling people discuss it. Plenty of chat on here about a range of teams over time, Arsenal's regular weakness, Sours doing a Spursy, Everton in a relegation battle last season and so on. Utd dominated English football for a period and are currently in a mess, have been for a few seasons really. That is bound to create chatter.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As per LP's post, whenever a team is wobbling people discuss it. Plenty of chat on here about a range of teams over time, Arsenal's regular weakness, Sours doing a Spursy, Everton in a relegation battle last season and so on. Utd dominated English football for a period and are currently in a mess, have been for a few seasons really. That is bound to create chatter.
		
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Listening to a few City fans and neutral fans. Part of the “ banter “ aimed towards Utd fans at the moment ( and the last few years) is the air of arrogance that went hand in hand when Utd dominated Football for so long. It’s a kinda what comes around goes around. Utd fans gave it out and now there getting it back in bucket loads. Me Ave been there, I have a degree in watching rammel football, Ave walked for far to long in the shoes which Utd now find themselves wearing watching Utd play. Most of the grief I got was from plastic armchair supporters. Some of them had never been to the Swamp to see Utd play. But they had all the shirts. Some of the best discussions re Manchester football was with Utd season ticket holders. Personally I don’t sit in the camp of taking the urine. Ave seen it quickly turn sour. 
As daft as it seems I look forward to the day when half a dozen teams are battling at the top. I think this year could  be the closest we get to it.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The same can be said about all the top teams - if Liverpool lost then it wouldn’t be any different

There are many fans out there that enjoy watching them both lose as much as their own team winning - guess it’s the price to pay for being the most successful clubs in the country 😁

Man Utd had two decades of success - and now some enjoy the downward path

It’s the same after Liverpools two decades of success - they had a downward path and Man Utd are where Liverpool were through the 90’s and 00’s
		
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I'm not denying all top teams get grief. I don't have the stats, but it seems that United still get the most attention from opposition fans though, when they don't win. I'm not sure many fans, for example, made too many comments about Liverpool's performance against Fulham last weekend/ I think maybe the odd Liverpool fan said it wasn't good. However, I suspect if United had dropped points against Fulham, there'd have been a lot of glee. People commenting on Maguire's ability to mark Mitrovic.

Not being critical. I know exactly why it is, United were so dominant, generally, for the first two decades of the PL, a period when football really took off with all the broadcasting deals and matches being shown across the UK/world. So, opposition fans now enjoy the fact that they are not close to that level.

But, Slime's point still stands. If United lose at any point in the future, it will generate a lot of discussion on here. If they win, probably not as much.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm not denying all top teams get grief. I don't have the stats, but it seems that United still get the most attention from opposition fans though, when they don't win. I'm not sure many fans, for example, made too many comments about Liverpool's performance against Fulham last weekend/ I think maybe the odd Liverpool fan said it wasn't good. However, I suspect if United had dropped points against Fulham, there'd have been a lot of glee. People commenting on Maguire's ability to mark Mitrovic.

Not being critical. I know exactly why it is, United were so dominant, generally, for the first two decades of the PL, a period when football really took off with all the broadcasting deals and matches being shown across the UK/world. So, opposition fans now enjoy the fact that they are not close to that level.

But, Slime's point still stands. If United lose at any point in the future, it will generate a lot of discussion on here. If they win, probably not as much.
		
Click to expand...

You don't expect none utd fans to post 'well played chaps' do you? That's for utd fans to post, others may then respond. That's how it works on the whole. 

Any team has a bad day, particularly one with more posters on here, and others will pile in.

I would also say, in recent years utd have been a model of how not to do business and that is a major talking point. To balance that, in case you perceive an over interest in utd and as much as this pains me, liverpool have been a model of how to do business. That just doesn't generate as many posts, no one likes a smart Alec after all 😄


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You don't expect none utd fans to post 'well played chaps' do you? That's for utd fans to post, others may then respond. That's how it works on the whole.

Any team has a bad day, particularly one with more posters on here, and others will pile in.

I would also say, in recent years utd have been a model of how not to do business and that is a major talking point. To balance that, in case you perceive an over interest in utd and as much as this pains me, liverpool have been a model of how to do business. That just doesn't generate as many posts, no one likes a smart Alec after all 😄
		
Click to expand...

That must have put you off your lunch


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That must have put you off your lunch

Click to expand...

You have no idea 😭🤢

😆


----------



## Swango1980 (Aug 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You don't expect none utd fans to post 'well played chaps' do you? That's for utd fans to post, others may then respond. That's how it works on the whole.

Any team has a bad day, particularly one with more posters on here, and others will pile in.

I would also say, in recent years utd have been a model of how not to do business and that is a major talking point. To balance that, in case you perceive an over interest in utd and as much as this pains me, liverpool have been a model of how to do business. That just doesn't generate as many posts, no one likes a smart Alec after all 😄
		
Click to expand...

Again, I'm not expecting or asking for anything different. Simply backing Slime's point that things will be quieter when Utd win a game. Unless they only win their first game in November, at which point there might be a lot of sarcastic congratulations.


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			No, it says all we need to know about the owners. Blaming ETH is just ridiculous.
		
Click to expand...

Slime, he was a player Ten Hag suggested as he's worked with him before! Even as clueless as Murtough clearly is, I'm not sure he'd stoop that low.

Rumours Micheal Knighton is behind a take over today....


----------



## Slime (Aug 10, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Slime, he was a player Ten Hag suggested as he's worked with him before! Even as clueless as Murtough clearly is, I'm not sure he'd stoop that low.

*Rumours Micheal Knighton is behind a take over today....*

Click to expand...

 ............................... again!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 11, 2022)

Maybe I’ve missed it,but Giggs doesn’t seem to be getting talked about as much as other players in his position would be. 
Imagine if it was John Terry 🤯.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maybe I’ve missed it,but Giggs doesn’t seem to be getting talked about as much as other players in his position would be.
Imagine if it was John Terry 🤯.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, as it's an ongoing trial, both sides still be heard fully, it's one people might be leaving alone until the end 🤷‍♂️.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, as it's an ongoing trial, both sides still be heard fully, it's one people might be leaving alone until the end 🤷‍♂️.
		
Click to expand...

There is also a whole seperate thread for it

https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/ryan-giggs.112824/


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, as it's an ongoing trial, both sides still be heard fully, it's one people might be leaving alone until the end 🤷‍♂️.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah maybe,wasn’t really talking about on here.
It’s not looking good for him.
Maybe LIV golf as taken the spotlight off him a bit,seems to be peoples obsession at the minute.


----------



## Dando (Aug 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			They're probably going for him because Bendtner is not available!
		
Click to expand...

Apparently Heskey is digging out his boots


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maybe I’ve missed it,but Giggs doesn’t seem to be getting talked about as much as other players in his position would be. 
Imagine if it was John Terry 🤯.
		
Click to expand...

Trust me from Monday Giggs will be forgotten when you hear about the shocking Mendy  and his loathesome pal 😡


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Trust me from Monday Giggs will be forgotten when you hear about the shocking Mendy  and his loathesome pal 😡
		
Click to expand...

Imagine having his life & looking at some real jail time 😬


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## Slime (Aug 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Imagine having his life & looking at some real jail time 😬
		
Click to expand...

I hope he doesn't have a tattoo like this on his back!


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## 4LEX (Aug 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Trust me from Monday Giggs will be forgotten when you hear about the shocking Mendy  and his loathesome pal 😡
		
Click to expand...

Mendy will be looking at 10 years plus.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 11, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Mendy will be looking at 10 years plus.
		
Click to expand...

hope so and his pal 20 years.


----------



## Neilds (Aug 12, 2022)

Transfer gossip is getting really tiresome now.  And some of the comments in the press are priceless when it comes to the rumours.  Apparently Rashford's 'people' are talking with PSG about a possible move but Ten Hag is saying Rashford is happy and doesn't want to move.  The nwhy has he sent his people to talk with another club????


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 12, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Transfer gossip is getting really tiresome now.  And some of the comments in the press are priceless when it comes to the rumours.  Apparently Rashford's 'people' are talking with PSG about a possible move but Ten Hag is saying Rashford is happy and doesn't want to move.  The nwhy has he sent his people to talk with another club????
		
Click to expand...

I can’t believe Man Utd wouldn’t cash in on him.
He’s pinched a living.


----------



## Swango1980 (Aug 12, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I can’t believe Man Utd wouldn’t cash in on him.
He’s pinched a living.
		
Click to expand...

It might be because they realise they are absolutely useless at getting new players in. If they get rid of Rashford, they'd probably end up bring in Daniel James or Theo Walcott to replace him, on transfer deadline day, for about £80 million.


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## Slime (Aug 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It might be because they realise they are absolutely useless at getting new players in. *If they get rid of Rashford, they'd probably end up bring in Daniel James or Theo Walcott to replace him*, on transfer deadline day, for about £80 million.
		
Click to expand...

Why?
We already have a replacement left winger. 
His name is Garnacho ............................................ Alejandro Garnacho!


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## Swango1980 (Aug 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			Why?
We already have a replacement left winger. 
His name is Garnacho ............................................ Alejandro Garnacho!
		
Click to expand...

I'm guessing an ambitious team like to have cover in all positions, rather than rely on an 18 year old who hasn't established themselves. Mind you, introducing a kid into a team full of week minded Senior pros is a sure fire way of destroying that kids chance to learn and develop. So, nothing would suprise me. 

I remember a few years ago United had a young kid called Marcus Rashford that everyone got excited about. Did well, and he was thrown into the limelight. Wonder what happened to him....


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2022)

ITV to show some La Liga games.
Can’t see it being the el classico tho.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm guessing an ambitious team like to have cover in all positions, rather than rely on an 18 year old who hasn't established themselves. Mind you, introducing a kid into a team full of week minded Senior pros is a sure fire way of destroying that kids chance to learn and develop. So, nothing would suprise me.

I remember a few years ago United had a young kid called Marcus Rashford that everyone got excited about. Did well, and he was thrown into the limelight. Wonder what happened to him....
		
Click to expand...

He’s gone into politics.


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## stefanovic (Aug 13, 2022)

I'm switching off everything football today 
Gerrard's Villa are kicking off against Lampard's Everton in a few minutes.
Can't take take any more of this.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			I'm switching off everything football today
Gerrard's Villa are kicking off against Lampard's Everton in a few minutes.
Can't take take any more of this.
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t be surprised if both were out of a job before the end of the season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)

Gordon - embarrassing - must be close to an 8 for that


----------



## adam6177 (Aug 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gordon - embarrassing - must be close to an 8 for that
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if Frank (or anyone) has spoken to him about it yet, surely they must have.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 13, 2022)

Quality from Ings.
Refs has let a lot go.
Clear foul on Cash and Gordon but nothing.
Maybe the playacting from Gordon is catching up with him.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 13, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I wonder if Frank (or anyone) has spoken to him about it yet, surely they must have.
		
Click to expand...

He’s not listening if they have.
Wild challenge from him as well and a bit more contact he could be in the bath early.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2022)

Lampard & Gerrard both great players,but not seeing anything from either that they’ve got what it takes to be good managers.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)

Everton have spent over £600mil in 6 years - where the heck did that money go when they field a team that poor


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 13, 2022)

Not the best game but you have to admire the fitness of the lads .
Playing in this heat must be hard.
I am sweating on my couch.
Everton should have had a go at Villa earlier they are a bit shaky at the back.
Bit more composure in the box and they would have got a point.
Omadda looks good he needs to be playing.


----------



## BrianM (Aug 13, 2022)

Man City and Arsenal on fire at the moment!!


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm guessing an ambitious team like to have cover in all positions, rather than rely on an 18 year old who hasn't established themselves. Mind you, introducing a kid into a team full of week minded Senior pros is a sure fire way of destroying that kids chance to learn and develop. So, nothing would suprise me.

*I remember a few years ago United had a young kid called Marcus Rashford that everyone got excited about. Did well, and he was thrown into the limelight. Wonder what happened to him....*

Click to expand...

I also remember young kids called Beckham, Scholes, Butt and a couple of Nevilles.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)




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## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)




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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558495146253209600


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

.................................... and so it goes on.
Thanks Glazers.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2022)

Blimey, whats DDG been on today🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			I also remember young kids called Beckham, Scholes, Butt and a couple of Nevilles.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah. Do you remember the other guys they played with? Cantona, Keane, Schmeichel, etc.


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Blimey, whats DDG been on today🤦🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Holiday?


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## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

Why is he not berating his players?
Fergie would be pointing and screaming.
Absolute joke 
These players need to be held accountable for their mistakes


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			.................................... and so it goes on.
Thanks Glazers. 

Click to expand...

There's lots of things the Glazers are responsible for, they're not responsible for DDG's pathetic performance today👍


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## Swango1980 (Aug 13, 2022)

DeGea having a brain dead performance today


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			Holiday?
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking Class A drugs😁😁


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

We've got Liverpool next ........................................ I can't bloody wait.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558497035589980161
😂😂😂😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			We've got Liverpool next ........................................ I can't bloody wait. 

Click to expand...

I hear there is a planned walkout - is that different from the walkout from the game last year 😁😉


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I hear there is a planned walkout - is that different from the walkout from the game last year 😁😉
		
Click to expand...

I think it was the players who walked out last year.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 13, 2022)

I wonder why Ronaldo wanted to leave?


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## fundy (Aug 13, 2022)

Oh my, Brentford have been truly brilliant


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## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

Looking at the players there they looked lost.
No direction,no passion,no fire in their bellies.
Get off that bloody seat and shout ,scream ,berate,get the players fired up.
Jesus Christ I could do better.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wonder why Ronaldo wanted to leave?
		
Click to expand...

He's hardly been faultless irrespective of what hes done before and goals he scored. 

When we've seen him rag defenders everywhere in his career, its amusing seeing him fall over with the slightest touch like he did for the 2nd goal.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)




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## Blue in Munich (Aug 13, 2022)

#PrayforSlime


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## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			We've got Liverpool next ........................................ I can't bloody wait. 

Click to expand...

We’re good on Mondays


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Looking at the players there they looked lost.
No direction,no passion,no fire in their bellies.
Get off that bloody seat and shout ,scream ,berate,get the players fired up.
Jesus Christ I could do better.
		
Click to expand...

Being a performing monkey on the sidelines doesn't make you a good manager. Do you think the players can hear anything in this sort of atmosphere anyway?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)




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## 4LEX (Aug 13, 2022)

To think Utd turned down Poch and picked Ten Hag is beyond laughable.

He's spent the entire summer focusing on a player who doesn't want to join Utd
He's only targeted ex Ajax players or those from the Dutch League
Given all the egos a third chance to fail and come across as a wet blanket
Can only play one way and it won't work in the PL unless you have the best players by a huge margin which won't happen
Signed a midget with no pace to play a high line alongside Maguire who isn't exactly quick

Got the selections/tactics badly wrong in both games and been embarrassed by sides that will struggle to finish in the top half.


----------



## Imurg (Aug 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Looking at the players there they looked lost.
No direction,no passion,no fire in their bellies.
Get off that bloody seat and shout ,scream ,berate,get the players fired up.
Jesus Christ I could do better.
		
Click to expand...

There could be a vacancy in a week or 2...


----------



## chrisd (Aug 13, 2022)

Looks like we only have to worry about being one of the other two teams likely to be relegated  😁😁😁😁


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## Tashyboy (Aug 13, 2022)

The table looks like a Manchester Butty with one Manchester team at the top and bottom. 
A Forest fan pal am sat with is over the moon as they have gone up one place without kicking a ball.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			To think Utd turned down Poch and picked Ten Hag is beyond laughable.

He's spent the entire summer focusing on a player who doesn't want to join Utd
He's only targeted ex Ajax players or those from the Dutch League
Given all the egos a third chance to fail and come across as a wet blanket
Can only play one way and it won't work in the PL unless you have the best players by a huge margin which won't happen
Signed a midget with no pace to play a high line alongside Maguire who isn't exactly quick

Got the selections/tactics badly wrong in both games and been embarrassed by sides that will struggle to finish in the top half.
		
Click to expand...

To think some fans still like to blame the manager. After 2 games. I doubt Poch would do much better, not if De Gea is going to give away 2 goals.

The board have probably also shown that are awful and getting deals done. Who are the scouts as well. I appreciate the manager wants an input to signings, but can't be expected to scout players across the world when he has an uphill job at coaching these useless players


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## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Being a performing monkey on the sidelines doesn't make you a good manager. Do you think the players can hear anything in this sort of atmosphere anyway?
		
Click to expand...

That’s a joke right
Fergie did it,and to good effect.
They had a water break,it looked like he hardly said a word.
Klopp does it.
Roy Keane would be berating these players demanding more.
We’ve got no-one.


----------



## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			To think some fans still like to blame the manager. After 2 games. I doubt Poch would do much better, not if De Gea is going to give away 2 goals.

The board have probably also shown that are awful and getting deals done. Who are the scouts as well. I appreciate the manager wants an input to signings, but can't be expected to scout players across the world when he has an uphill job at coaching these useless players
		
Click to expand...

You can see ETH hasn’t got it.
I said after 2 weeks RR didn’t have it,and I see the same with ETH.
He hasn’t got the players playing pure and simple.


----------



## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

Woking have beaten Dag & Red 2-0.


----------



## chrisd (Aug 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s a joke right
Fergie did it,and to good effect.
They had a water break,it looked like he hardly said a word.
Klopp does it.
Roy Keane would be berating these players demanding more.
We’ve got no-one.
		
Click to expand...

They didn't need a water break, it got in the way of their football break


----------



## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

I've been supporting Utd since the 60's and that was the worst 45 minutes I think I've ever seen, including the season when they were relegated!


----------



## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



*To think Utd turned down Poch and picked Ten Hag is beyond laughable.*

He's spent the entire summer focusing on a player who doesn't want to join Utd
He's only targeted ex Ajax players or those from the Dutch League
Given all the egos a third chance to fail and come across as a wet blanket
Can only play one way and it won't work in the PL unless you have the best players by a huge margin which won't happen
Signed a midget with no pace to play a high line alongside Maguire who isn't exactly quick

*Got the selections/tactics badly wrong in both games and been embarrassed by sides that will struggle to finish in the top half.*

Click to expand...

You should have applied, you seem absolutely perfect.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			I've been supporting Utd since the 60's and that was the worst 45 minutes I think I've ever seen, *including the season when they were relegated!*

Click to expand...

Don't you mean including the *other* season when they were relegated...


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			To think some fans still like to blame the manager. After 2 games. I doubt Poch would do much better, not if De Gea is going to give away 2 goals.

The board have probably also shown that are awful and getting deals done. Who are the scouts as well. I appreciate the manager wants an input to signings, but can't be expected to scout players across the world when he has an uphill job at coaching these useless players
		
Click to expand...

Poch is much better suited to the squad, he plays a more balanced style with a mix of possession and counter attacking football. 

De Gea can't play the football ETH is asking of him, it's not going to change. One goal was a mistake but the other was on ETH. Why not sign a keeper who is comfy on the ball? As I said ages ago, the whole football set up is broken at the club so it's not on ETH totally. The fact a new manager is allowed carte blanche on signings is a huge red flag. He also had the arrogance to ignore a meeting with Rangnick about the report he'd made on the squad. Rangnick was a poor appointment (as I said at the time) but you would at least listen to what he learnt.

ETH is a bad appointment, bad football set up, bad recruitment and the outlook looks even worse than I expected. Liverpool next Monday will be a powder keg with protests planned.


----------



## Dando (Aug 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558495146253209600
View attachment 43851

Click to expand...

Phil, it’s bang out or order to post that……Oh hang on a minute
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			You should have applied, you seem absolutely perfect.
		
Click to expand...

I would love to get the job, sign a few forum members up. LiverpoolPhil in defence, Tashy in midfield, myself on a player manager role upfront then look perplexed as we lose 15-0 to everyone while you defend me and say I need more time


----------



## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

You can't blame a manager after just two games, surely, especially when you know the issue is the board.
And if you don't know that the Utd board is the issue, you don't understand football.


----------



## GB72 (Aug 13, 2022)




----------



## BrianM (Aug 13, 2022)

Where do Man Utd go from here, they have been absolutely abysmal.
Klopp will be able to play his U21’s when they play on Monday night football.
They will be lucky to finish top half going on there first two games.


----------



## Dando (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			You can't blame a manager after just two games, surely, especially when you know the issue is the board.
And if you don't know that the Utd board is the issue, you don't understand football.
		
Click to expand...

The board must be on the crack pipe again as apparently they’ve valued Rashford at £120m


----------



## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			You can't blame a manager after just two games, surely, especially when you know the issue is the board.
And if you don't know that the Utd board is the issue, you don't understand football.
		
Click to expand...

After 2 games I can see he’s not up to the job.
Whatever message he’s trying to get across is not working.
The players need to work and work hard.
That’s attitude and that comes from within or the manager.
Brentford are doing it.
The board picking ETH was wrong and I’m sure that will be shown.
If you think that the board is the only issue then I suggest you don’t know football.
Do you think Fergie or Roy Keane as examples would not be doing things different regardless of any board.
I don’t think so.


----------



## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

BrianM said:



*Where do Man Utd go from here,* they have been absolutely abysmal.
Klopp will be able to play his U21’s when they play on Monday night football.
They will be lucky to finish top half going on there first two games.
		
Click to expand...

The Championship.


----------



## fundy (Aug 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			After 2 games I can see he’s not up to the job.
Whatever message he’s trying to get across is not working.
The players need to work and work hard.
That’s attitude and that comes from within or the manager.
Brentford are doing it.
The board picking ETH was wrong and I’m sure that will be shown.
If you think that the board is the only issue then I suggest you don’t know football.
Do you think Fergie or Roy Keane as examples would not be doing things different regardless of any board.
I don’t think so.
		
Click to expand...


how many managers have to fail before you question whether the fault lies elsewhere?


----------



## 3offTheTee (Aug 13, 2022)

ETH 2nd favourite to be the next Manager to lose his job.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Aug 13, 2022)




----------



## Blue in Munich (Aug 13, 2022)




----------



## 3offTheTee (Aug 13, 2022)

Dando said:



			The board must be on the crack pipe again as apparently they’ve valued Rashford at £120m
		
Click to expand...

They have the point in the wrong place. £12m is more realistic!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			After 2 games I can see he’s not up to the job.
Whatever message he’s trying to get across is not working.
The players need to work and work hard.
That’s attitude and that comes from within or the manager.
Brentford are doing it.
The board picking ETH was wrong and I’m sure that will be shown.
If you think that the board is the only issue then I suggest you don’t know football.
Do you think Fergie or Roy Keane as examples would not be doing things different regardless of any board.
I don’t think so.
		
Click to expand...

It can’t keep being the manager.
The problem is deeper than that.
The club is being run by idiots.
The squad is terrible,even Fergie wouldn’t get a tune out of them.
Utd won’t challenge for a title until the owners sell up.


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## Dando (Aug 13, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			They have the point in the wrong place. £12m is more realistic!
		
Click to expand...

I guess he could do the pack lunches


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 13, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Where do Man Utd go from here, they have been absolutely abysmal.
Klopp will be able to play his U21’s when they play on Monday night football.
They will be lucky to finish top half going on there first two games.
		
Click to expand...

Down hopefully


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)

Man Utd fans on 606 😂😂😂

Comedy gold 

Sacking the manager after 2 games 😂😂😂


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## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			how many managers have to fail before you question whether the fault lies elsewhere?
		
Click to expand...

I agree part of the problem is the owners,however once you put a manager in place,even if it’s the wrong manager he has to show something.
Now the players are either not good enough or are good enough but don’t try or care.
That’s where the manager earns his crust.
Coming up with a plan,getting players on board,getting a tune out of players.
It’s not happening and it won’t happen under ETH.
Utd are one if not the biggest club worldwide,it’s needs a big manager.
He needs backing by the board and tbh they back the manager with money,regardless of how much they take out the club.
Yes they need to go but that’s a long way off.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Man Utd fans on 606 😂😂😂

Comedy gold

Sacking the manager after 2 games 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Have you heard the Liverpool ⚓️ On there as well.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			It can’t keep being the manager.
The problem is deeper than that.
The club is being run by idiots.
The squad is terrible,even Fergie wouldn’t get a tune out of them.
Utd won’t challenge for a title until the owners sell up.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed 
However he’s got to show more,lots more.


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## chrisd (Aug 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I agree part of the problem is the owners,however once you put a manager in place,even if it’s the wrong manager he has to show something.
Now the players are either not good enough or are good enough but don’t try or care.
That’s where the manager earns his crust.
Coming up with a plan,getting players on board,getting a tune out of players.
It’s not happening and it won’t happen under ETH.
Utd are one if not the biggest club worldwide,it’s needs a big manager.
He needs backing by the board and tbh they back the manager with money,regardless of how much they take out the club.
Yes they need to go but that’s a long way off.
		
Click to expand...

Naw, they just need a season or two in the Championship. It's the players fault, they aren't fighting for the cause


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## BrianM (Aug 13, 2022)

Redknapp and Neville 😳😳😳


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)

Surely only one person for the job


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452367274338304008


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Man Utd fans on 606 😂😂😂

Comedy gold

Sacking the manager after 2 games 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

When it’s the Liverpool fans doing it don’t you just regard them as social media bed wetters that have never been to a game?🤷‍♂️


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## Dando (Aug 13, 2022)




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## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely only one person for the job


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452367274338304008

Click to expand...

I find it quite funny/strange that you seem to enjoy United defeats more than Liverpool victories.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			I find it quite funny/strange that you seem to enjoy United defeats more than Liverpool victories.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂

I recall all the way through the 90’s and 00’s Manc Fans lording it up and taking pleasure from Liverpool not winning the league and major trophies as Utd did 

We didn’t play today so as an alternative I’m enjoying Man Utd and indeed Everton getting beat and propping up the table 😂😂

Man Utd and their fans put themselves on a pedestal and the fall is very funny to watch.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I agree part of the problem is the owners,however once you put a manager in place,even if it’s the wrong manager he has to show something.
Now the players are either not good enough or are good enough but don’t try or care.
That’s where the manager earns his crust.
Coming up with a plan,getting players on board,getting a tune out of players.
It’s not happening and it won’t happen under ETH.
Utd are one if not the biggest club worldwide,it’s needs a big manager.
He needs backing by the board and tbh they back the manager with money,regardless of how much they take out the club.
Yes they need to go but that’s a long way off.
		
Click to expand...

It's 2 games in. Those players were absolutely abysmal last year. The manager has had a few friendlies with them, and when they get back to competitive action, you expect the manager should be able to get some magic out of them?

It has been proven that when they are up against strong opponents who close them down, they panic. When something goes wrong, they almost give up. There are probably 5 or 6 of them like that. 

Pre season will have given him a false impression of these players. He will now have a much greater idea what they are truly like. Give him time to analyse it. He'll need time to truly understand how many of those players need to go. 

But, he will need help from the club. He can tell them the sorts of players he needs. But, he can't be responsible for scouting players around the world. He'll need great scouts to ensure they get a good hit rate with signings, and a board that can get the deals done. Sadly, that is where things might crumble. 

Ten Hag has my backing. I'm prepared to give him a good chance at least.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			I find it quite funny/strange that you seem to enjoy United defeats more than Liverpool victories.
		
Click to expand...

He’s obsessed mate 🤷‍♂️
Never been to Anfield 🤷‍♂️😂


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## RichA (Aug 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂

I recall all the way through the 90’s and 00’s Manc Fans lording it up and taking pleasure from Liverpool not winning the league and major trophies as Utd did 

We didn’t play today so as an alternative I’m enjoying Man Utd and indeed Everton getting beat and propping up the table 😂😂

Man Utd and their fans put themselves on a pedestal and the fall is very funny to watch.
		
Click to expand...

"They started it!" Genius. 

Starting to remember why I fell out of love with football 25 years ago.
Boring, toxic, negative tribalism.


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## 4LEX (Aug 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			You can't blame a manager after just two games, surely, especially when you know the issue is the board.
And if you don't know that the Utd board is the issue, you don't understand football.
		
Click to expand...

He's had 10 weeks working with these players and ignored all advice from Rangnick. He's signed some bizarre players and has set the team up badly in both league games. Not just badly but amateur levels. Martinez is a decent technical player but won't ever cut it in the back four. To play him alongside Maguire is suicide. Early days yet agreed but to absolve him of any blame is why you're in this place.

Of course the owners and football set up is wrong, along with a lot of the dressing room. But this guy makes Ole look like a tactical genius. He at least knew the sides strengths and weaknesses and played to that.

It's far easier to change a manager on 150k a week than get rid of 10 players on a combined 2-3m a week not to even mention transfer fees.

ETH has got to step up big time or he'll be another De Boer.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			He's had 10 weeks working with these players and ignored all advice from Rangnick. He's signed some bizarre players and has set the team up badly in both league games. Not just badly but amateur levels. Martinez is a decent technical player but won't ever cut it in the back four. To play him alongside Maguire is suicide. Early days yet agreed but to absolve him of any blame is why you're in this place.

Of course the owners and football set up is wrong, along with a lot of the dressing room. But this guy makes Ole look like a tactical genius. He at least knew the sides strengths and weaknesses and played to that.

It's far easier to change a manager on 150k a week than get rid of 10 players on a combined 2-3m a week not to even mention transfer fees.

ETH has got to step up big time or he'll be another De Boer.
		
Click to expand...

I'm surprised by your first sentence. You absolutely slated Rangnick, yet now the new manager should have trusted his judgement. Not sure everything you said, but found this:

"Called it at the time but what an awful appointment Rangnick was. Zero experience of managing a top club and this role as a consultant was absurd. Clearly for the best Utd got rid of him but it shows nothing has changed, the club is still run by those who don't have a clue."

I'm going to bet that if ten Hag DID talk to RR, and signed a player based on that, you'd have slated him for that as well?


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## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It's 2 games in. Those players were absolutely abysmal last year. The manager has had a few friendlies with them, and when they get back to competitive action, you expect the manager should be able to get some magic out of them?

It has been proven that when they are up against strong opponents who close them down, they panic. When something goes wrong, they almost give up. There are probably 5 or 6 of them like that.

Pre season will have given him a false impression of these players. He will now have a much greater idea what they are truly like. Give him time to analyse it. He'll need time to truly understand how many of those players need to go.

But, he will need help from the club. He can tell them the sorts of players he needs. But, he can't be responsible for scouting players around the world. He'll need great scouts to ensure they get a good hit rate with signings, and a board that can get the deals done. Sadly, that is where things might crumble.

Ten Hag has my backing. I'm prepared to give him a good chance at least.
		
Click to expand...

100% he should be getting more out of them albeit after a short time.
The players are to blame as well,I’ve said that.
He’s not good enough,mark my words.
I saw an interview he did last week,a girl asked him many times what was different and what’s he changed.
He never answered but mentioned hard work about 10 times.
I knew then nothing had changed.


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## chrisd (Aug 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Ten Hag has my backing. I'm prepared to give him a good chance at least.
		
Click to expand...

He has the backing of all us Manure haters. Start as you mean to go on Ten !


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## RRidges (Aug 13, 2022)

Oh I love when Manure has problems! 'Fans' reactions are 'wonderful'!
Now if only Liverpool can have similar - though I've nothing against either club, just the inane attitude of Football fans that both those clubs epitomise!


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## fundy (Aug 13, 2022)

just catching up on the Arsenal highlights, 5.8 for Vardy from the home judge


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## 4LEX (Aug 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm surprised by your first sentence. You absolutely slated Rangnick, yet now the new manager should have trusted his judgement. Not sure everything you said, but found this:

"Called it at the time but what an awful appointment Rangnick was. Zero experience of managing a top club and this role as a consultant was absurd. Clearly for the best Utd got rid of him but it shows nothing has changed, the club is still run by those who don't have a clue."

I'm going to bet that if ten Hag DID talk to RR, and signed a player based on that, you'd have slated him for that as well? 

Click to expand...

Rangnick was a terrible appointment, I said so at the time way before it turned to crap and I was proven correct. Go back and quote me. He's more of a club builder and director of football type. I still question if his CV qualified him for the Utd job but after 6 months he knew what the players and set up were all about. He was signed on a 6 month manager and 24 month consultant deal. ETH ignored all his advice and went it alone. The Dutch are well known for their arrogance and ignorance. He's been schooled by two mid table sides and managers and is now trying to blame the club and players. He's a fraud, end of story. Cut your losses and get someone in who has a clue or else you'll struggle to finish top half.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s a joke right
Fergie did it,and to good effect.
They had a water break,it looked like he hardly said a word.
Klopp does it.
Roy Keane would be berating these players demanding more.
We’ve got no-one.
		
Click to expand...

Thinking utd would improve by waving arms and shouting over 20k plus singing fans is the only daft comment. Getting a manager in who performs for the cameras on the touchline is phone in stuff. I hope the owners follow your advice,  it will keep this run going for longer.


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## fundy (Aug 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			just catching up on the Arsenal highlights, 5.8 for Vardy from the home judge 

Click to expand...


and 5.6 for Jesus lol


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## Swango1980 (Aug 13, 2022)

Top


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## pokerjoke (Aug 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Thinking utd would improve by waving arms and shouting over 20k plus singing fans is the only daft comment. Getting a manager in who performs for the cameras on the touchline is phone in stuff. I hope the owners follow your advice,  it will keep this run going for longer.
		
Click to expand...

So everyone shouting something when there’s a crowd of over 20,000 is wasting their breath?
There’s plenty of ways to communicate.
Do you watch football.
Have you not watched Pep or Klopp they do it every week.


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## chrisd (Aug 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			So everyone shouting something when there’s a crowd of over 20,000 is wasting their breath?
There’s plenty of ways to communicate.
Do you watch football.
Have you not watched Pep or Klopp they do it every week.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair though, Klopp and Pep are in charge of football teams 😂😂


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## BiMGuy (Aug 13, 2022)

ManU fans in meltdown is a thing of beauty.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 13, 2022)

To be honest am a bit perplexed about how the focus has been on how dire Utd have been. It don’t seem to me that Brentford have had the credit they deserve. There’s a couple of things I have mentioned before and it is killing teams like Utd. Some of the lower teams have been massively organised, Once more Brentford were organised. If they can do it well against City, then against Utd is no problem. Shearer is saying now what I said last week about Fernandez. The team has no hunger or desire. Teams like Brighton and Brentford smell blood. 
What shocked me was Utds inability to be able to play out of the back. It was worse than Division one standard. A long season ahead for Utd.


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂

*I recall all the way through the 90’s and 00’s Manc Fans lording it up and taking pleasure from Liverpool not winning the league and major trophies as Utd did*

We didn’t play today so as an alternative I’m enjoying Man Utd and indeed Everton getting beat and propping up the table 😂😂

Man Utd and their fans put themselves on a pedestal and the fall is very funny to watch.
		
Click to expand...

I wasn't one of those ........................... and I don't expect to be on Monday week.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2022)

How had Mitrovic not got a red card for that.
Hacks him down then pushing him around with his head.
The ref and VAR ? Very poor.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			I find it quite funny/strange that you seem to enjoy United defeats more than Liverpool victories.
		
Click to expand...

😁😁 time of the month hun?


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 14, 2022)

I hope there isn’t a recall clause in Henderson’s loan contract 😬🙏🏻


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## BrianM (Aug 14, 2022)

At the moment, you wonder how many Man Utd players would get into England's world cup squad.
Maguire has been a stalwart at centre half, but he is at rock bottom confidence wise.
Rashford, Sancho, Shaw, not for me on current form and game time.
You wonder what Gareth Southgate is thinking considering the world cup isn't far away.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			So everyone shouting something when there’s a crowd of over 20,000 is wasting their breath?
There’s plenty of ways to communicate.
Do you watch football.
Have you not watched Pep or Klopp they do it every week.
		
Click to expand...

Current problems:
World class keeper with occasional pub football errors 
An ability to destroy talented young full backs 
An inability to keep CH fit
Broken confidence of the fit CH's
The tactic of playing from the back, slowly, with players incapable of doing it effectively 
An Arsenal like inability to identify the need for a quality defensive midfielder 
The collapse in form of your key central midfielder 
The inability of your midfield to hold and control the pace of play
The backward, almost collapse, of form of your through the ranks big hope forward, Rashford 
No form of your big signing from last year, Sancho
The biggest presence at the club, Ronaldo, clearly not wanting to be there.

Solution:
More arm waving 😳


Yes please.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2022)

BrianM said:



			At the moment, you wonder how many Man Utd players would get into England's world cup squad.
Maguire has been a stalwart at centre half, but he is at rock bottom confidence wise.
Rashford, Sancho, Shaw, not for me on current form and game time.
You wonder what Gareth Southgate is thinking considering the world cup isn't far away.
		
Click to expand...

I thought exactly the same last night. But can you imagine players from City, Chelsea, Liverpool turn up on a Monday morning and Southgate is taking training 😳. Utd turn up and are in heaven. 
At the moment I cannot think one Utd player should be in the squad.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558530905374969856
😬


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2022)

Forest playing well and deserving of their half time lead. West Ham are pretty disappointing so far.


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## Slime (Aug 14, 2022)

Oh, the sheer number of football experts on a golf forum.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Forest playing well and deserving of their half time lead. West Ham are pretty disappointing so far.
		
Click to expand...

WH started the second half well.
That’s a shocking pen from Rice.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			Oh, the sheer number of football experts on a golf forum.


Click to expand...

Not many Golf experts here never mind Football experts.
But from what I have read about UTD most of it seems correct.
But then I am no expert.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			Oh, the sheer number of football experts on a golf forum.


Click to expand...

Experts on EVERYTHING 😂
They were probably mutes before Google existed.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2022)

This has been one of the best one nillers Ave seen in a while.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This has been one of the best one nillers Ave seen in a while.
		
Click to expand...


Forest got some sort of hoodoo on their goal lol, goal disallowed, missed pen, twice off the underside of the bar........


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## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			Forest got some sort of hoodoo on their goal lol, goal disallowed, missed pen, twice off the underside of the bar........
		
Click to expand...

plus the Forest goal disallowed, VAR getting decisions right. Forest putting in the effort that Utd don’t 👍


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			plus the Forest goal disallowed, VAR getting decisions right. Forest putting in the effort that Utd don’t 👍
		
Click to expand...

not sure i agree re VAR, dont think its a foul for the West Ham goal that was disallowed

not everything has to be compared to Utd


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			just catching up on the Arsenal highlights, 5.8 for Vardy from the home judge 

Click to expand...

The chants about his nasty wife Rebekah probably affected him 😂😂


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2022)

Jensen said:



			The chants about his nasty wife Rebekah probably affected him 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

What awful attention seekin 🤬she is.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 14, 2022)

How we lost that lol but great to see forest back and their fans deserve that

Can't be disappointed with our performance, two bars / post hit, pen saved, cleared off line and the goal was bit of a scuff (poor defending tho)


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## BiMGuy (Aug 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			Oh, the sheer number of football experts on a golf forum.


Click to expand...

Are they the ManU fans who think they could run a football club?


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## backwoodsman (Aug 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			How we lost that lol but great to see forest back and their fans deserve that

Can't be disappointed with our performance, two bars / post hit, pen saved, cleared off line and the goal was bit of a scuff (poor defending tho)
		
Click to expand...

Am pleased we won, of course, but can't really argue if someone says a draw should have been the result. I think both disallowed goals were fair VAR decisions - as was the VAR award ofthe WHU penalty. Forest a bit scrappy at times but they defended well and gelled rather better as a team than they did last week. A long way to go - but a work in progress. Hopeful!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This has been one of the best one nillers Ave seen in a while.
		
Click to expand...

Good, entertaining game. Forest gave it everything, fans played their part. West Ham were unlucky not to come away with a point but newly promoted teams need that bit of luck. 

Forest could be a fun watch at home this season.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 14, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Good, entertaining game. Forest gave it everything, fans played their part. West Ham were unlucky not to come away with a point but newly promoted teams need that bit of luck.

Forest could be a fun watch at home this season.
		
Click to expand...

And both managers on the touch line rousing their players,getting out information,Moyes demanding effort.
The same as the Spurs-Chelsea game both managers getting their message across.
Why though?according to you they can’t be heard.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2022)

Enjoyed the Forest / West Ham game , no idea how West Ham didn’t score , bet Man Utd wish Henderson was between the sticks yesterday

That goal certainly led a charmed life

Though the Disallowed goal for the Antonio was a bit soft

On the penalty I wonder why they didn’t look at the tackle on Williams in the build up


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			And both managers on the touch line rousing their players,getting out information,Moyes demanding effort.
The same as the Spurs-Chelsea game both managers getting their message across.
Why though?according to you they can’t be heard.
		
Click to expand...

You'll be loving Chelsea v Spurs with Conte giving it plenty then 👍

I'm not averse to some sideline action from the manager during a game but on a list of importance of this to the team it's just above tracksuit v formal wear. The real work is done in training, pre match, half time. Sideline antics are for the crowds, relieves tension for the manager.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 14, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Am pleased we won, of course, but can't really argue if someone says a draw should have been the result. I think both disallowed goals were fair VAR decisions - as was the VAR award ofthe WHU penalty. Forest a bit scrappy at times but they defended well and gelled rather better as a team than they did last week. A long way to go - but a work in progress. Hopeful!!
		
Click to expand...

It's great to see all your players working hard and playing as a team. I think you will do well 

Think Henderson is a cracking keeper 

Didn't get the pen .. why did he bother? Henderson had it

I love rice but I think his ego needs taking down a peg. He thinks he is prime Gerrard sometimes .. shouldn't be on pens for a start ..


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## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			It's great to see all your players working hard and playing as a team. I think you will do well

Think Henderson is a cracking keeper

Didn't get the pen .. why did he bother? Henderson had it

I love rice but I think his ego needs taking down a peg. He thinks he is prime Gerrard sometimes .. shouldn't be on pens for a start ..
		
Click to expand...

It’s odd but I said why has Rice stepped up to take the penalty.

I thought Forest Did well, but there game plan today was hit quick long balls and to a great extent it worked.  Ut when defending a 1 goal lead they need to try and keep the ball a bit and not give it away.


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## Orikoru (Aug 14, 2022)

Spurs seem to have taken the decision not to mark the giant Chelsea centre back on corners. Maybe I'm out of touch but it seems like a bizarre strategy to me.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

Conte upping the shithousery this season 😂😂


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Conte upping the shithousery this season 😂😂
		
Click to expand...


Think they should get the charity white collar boxing set up for him and Tuchel lol


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

And Tuchel responds with a body blow!!

I make that 1-1😂


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			Think they should get the charity white collar boxing set up for him and Tuchel lol
		
Click to expand...

i’d pay  for that 😁


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

“Reece James, he’s one of our own”. Wow that’s original, wonder where the Chelsea fans learnt that 🤔😂


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			i’d pay  for that 😁
		
Click to expand...


think they could get a survivor series sorted haha

those 2, klopp, pep, arteta, gerrard, lampard, parker

get it sorted Hearn (make it quick a couple of them might not have a job soon)

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## BrianM (Aug 14, 2022)

Chelsea looking superb against a very good Spurs side.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 14, 2022)

City Ground was absolutely rocking today. Incredible to experience. Our whole squad put a shift in today and although a draw would have been fair, I think we played solidly enough to sneak the win.


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## adam6177 (Aug 14, 2022)

I don't care for Chelsea or spurs particularly.... But Anthony Taylor is absolutely useless. 

Every season I hope the standard of refereeing will get better. It doesn't.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			think they could get a survivor series sorted haha

those 2, klopp, pep, arteta, gerrard, lampard, parker

get it sorted Hearn (make it quick a couple of them might not have a job soon)

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

oh please no, the Gerrard/Lampard build up would be too much.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			oh please no, the Gerrard/Lampard build up would be too much.
		
Click to expand...

i know i know, wouldnt be fair when Gerrard slips and the ref calls it a knockdown either


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## IanM (Aug 14, 2022)

Spurs never in it.    Grab a point.

Mad game.


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## Piece (Aug 14, 2022)

Handbags have sold out at the Bridge


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## Dando (Aug 14, 2022)

Piece said:



			Handbags have sold out at the Bridge
		
Click to expand...

Harry Kane went down looking for a penalty


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

The REAL “one of our own”  delivers 😉


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

Wow, what a end to a great game, not too sure about Spurs celebrating a draw though😉.

After seeing that handshake, I’ve priced Conte up as 2/7 jolly and Tuchel 3/1


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow, what a end to a great game, not too sure about Spurs celebrating a draw though😉.

After seeing that handshake, I’ve priced Conte up as 2/7 jolly and Tuchel 3/1
		
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ill have a score at 3/1 tuchel plse Stu


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## Piece (Aug 14, 2022)

Great entertainment and good to see meaty challenges. No complaints about the ref here 👍


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

I thought Taylor was fair and reffed it well.

I hope Tierney was watching……


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## JonnyGutteridge (Aug 14, 2022)

Spurs really are a tiny club aren't they


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

JonnyGutteridge said:



			Spurs really are a tiny club aren't they
		
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John Smiths or a Tetleys? 😉


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## Orikoru (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow, what a end to a great game, not too sure about Spurs celebrating a draw though😉.

After seeing that handshake, I’ve priced Conte up as 2/7 jolly and Tuchel 3/1
		
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We don't win at Stamford Bridge. Definitely a point gained and a bogey game out the way. Just wish Conte would've landed a left hook on Tuchel as well. 😂


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

JonnyGutteridge said:



			Spurs really are a tiny club aren't they
		
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😂😂😂😂😂 COYS 😉


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2022)

Love to see it 😂😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558868810223976451


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## AmandaJR (Aug 14, 2022)

Not keen on either manager but I'm in Tuchel's corner on this one! Firstly that's some strong grip in those puny arms AND it looks like he was telling Conte to show some respect and look a man in the eye when he shakes his hand...


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## IanM (Aug 14, 2022)

What did we learn today?

Tuchel has very skinny legs.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2022)

IanM said:



			What did we learn today?

Tuchel has very skinny legs.
		
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Pulling hair is ok as well


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			ill have a score at 3/1 tuchel plse Stu 

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I will have a fiver on Parker.


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## Midnight (Aug 14, 2022)

Go on the Forest 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿, 3pts towards survival 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿. 
Very pleased with the passion and fight. 
Thought West Ham were unlucky and Forest should of been down to ten ref the penalty. 

Look forward to the next game 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿


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## BiMGuy (Aug 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			And both managers on the touch line rousing their players,getting out information,Moyes demanding effort.
The same as the Spurs-Chelsea game both managers getting their message across.
Why though?according to you they can’t be heard.
		
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Have you played football?


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## Deleted member 3432 (Aug 14, 2022)

Do people actually watch this shite, make a bunch of juvenile delinquents look mature....


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

Midnight said:



			Go on the Forest 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿, 3pts towards survival 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿.
Very pleased with the passion and fight.
Thought West Ham were unlucky and *Forest should of been down to ten ref the penalty.*

Look forward to the next game 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
		
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Rules have changed now, it’s only a yellow and a pen.


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

saving_par said:



			Do people actually watch this shite, make a bunch of juvenile delinquents look mature....
		
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Obviously so….as we’re told it’s a great product


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 14, 2022)

Midnight said:



			Go on the Forest 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿, 3pts towards survival 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿.
Very pleased with the passion and fight.
Thought West Ham were unlucky and Forest should of been down to ten ref the penalty.

Look forward to the next game 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
		
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Will be upset it we don’t pump Everton 4-0 🤣

Dennis, Freuler and Kouyaté to come into the squad too.
and I still think we’ll get Garner and MGW (the latter being key to cooper staying long term I believe)


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought Taylor was fair and reffed it well.

I hope Tierney was watching……
		
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I hope you haven’t given away that Specsavers voucher you offered someone else Stu, your need is obviously greater than theirs.  🙄


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Will be upset it we don’t pump Everton 4-0 🤣

Dennis, Freuler and Kouyaté to come into the squad too.
and I still think we’ll get Garner and MGW (the latter being key to cooper staying long term I believe)
		
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if 42m wasnt enough for MGW how much are you prepared to pay????


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## pokerjoke (Aug 14, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Have you played football?
		
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Why do you ask?


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			if 42m wasnt enough for MGW how much are you prepared to pay????
		
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If it means cooper stays long term, whatever it takes. He was the one player cooper wanted.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 14, 2022)

If you don't understand why Spurs fans are celebrating like that then you've never experienced a late goal to get you something away from home. What they supposed to do? Stand and clap politely?


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## Bazzatron (Aug 14, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			If it means cooper stays long term, whatever it takes. He was the one player cooper wanted.
		
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I don't think you will, we've already turned down 42m which was more than enough.


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## Yorkhacker (Aug 14, 2022)

Jensen said:



			The REAL “one of our own”  delivers 😉
		
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Sorry, is that the Harry Kane who had a spell in his youth career at Arsenal?


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Sorry, is that the Harry Kane who had a spell in his youth career at Arsenal?
		
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He joined Spurs at the age of 10/11 so hardly a youth when he was at Arsenal.
His MAJOR development would have occurred from then on, so yes he’s definitely “one of our own “ thanks 👍


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## Dando (Aug 14, 2022)




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## Yorkhacker (Aug 14, 2022)

Jensen said:



			He joined Spurs at the age of 10/11 so hardly a youth when he was at Arsenal.
His MAJOR development would have occurred from then on, so yes he’s definitely “one of our own “ thanks 👍
		
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So how does that make him the 'REAL one of our own' , as opposed to Reece  James being a Chelsea 'one of our own'?


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			So how does that make him the 'REAL one of our own' , as opposed to Reece  James being a Chelsea 'one of our own'?
		
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It was in reference to Chelsea singing the same song - little imagination there……


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I hope you haven’t given away that Specsavers voucher you offered someone else Stu, your need is obviously greater than theirs.  🙄
		
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I thought he had a good game with the exception of the Romero/Cucurella  hair pulling, he should’ve seen that as he was bang inline with it. He never and carried on with the play. 

Theres no excuse for your lot giving a free header to Kane in the 6yard box.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Why do you ask?
		
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Don’t be shy PJ, you’ve never missed an opportunity to tell us you’ve played the game when trying to back your point up in the past😀😀


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			If you don't understand why Spurs fans are celebrating like that then you've never experienced a late goal to get you something away from home. What they supposed to do? Stand and clap politely?
		
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They’re usually the best ones, late late winner especially when the opponent have time wasted the whole game 😁


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## Wabinez (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought he had a good game with the exception of the Romero/Cucurella  hair pulling, he should’ve seen that as he was bang inline with it. He never and carried on with the play.

Theres no excuse for your lot giving a free header to Kane in the 6yard box.
		
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why didn’t VAR look at it?!


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 14, 2022)

Wabinez said:



			why didn’t VAR look at it?!
		
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Allegedly it did and it wasn’t a red card. If that doesn’t prove it’s unfit for purpose then I don’t know what does. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤔


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

Wabinez said:



			why didn’t VAR look at it?!
		
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VAR looked at it but they can only award either a pen or a red card. Anything else it’s play on.

I‘ve watched it a few times now and the only reason I can think of why Taylor never blew for a foul is because it wasn’t interfering with play.


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## Wabinez (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			VAR looked at it but they can only award either a pen or a red card. Anything else it’s play on.

I‘ve watched it a few times now and the only reason I can think of why Taylor never blew for a foul is because it wasn’t interfering with play.
		
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Cool, so punch a guy at the back post as it’s not interfering with play and get away with it.

it’s all violent conduct.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			They’re usually the best ones, late late winner especially when the opponent have time wasted the whole game 😁
		
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I'll call it all day long, hate when we do it. Fulham did it to us yesterday.


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## Yorkhacker (Aug 14, 2022)

Jensen said:



			It was in reference to Chelsea singing the same song - little imagination there……
		
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Oh I see, Spurs fans invented the song, and nobody other teams fans have ever sung it. Thanks for clarifying


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Oh I see, Spurs fans invented the song, and nobody other teams fans have ever sung it. Thanks for clarifying 

Click to expand...

🥱🥱🥱🥱 you carry on hacking round Yorkshire my son 👍


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## Yorkhacker (Aug 14, 2022)

Jensen said:



			🥱🥱🥱🥱 you carry on hacking round Yorkshire my son 👍
		
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??????


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

Wabinez said:



			Cool, so punch a guy at the back post as it’s not interfering with play and get away with it.

it’s all violent conduct.
		
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Yeah that’s exactly what I’m referring to 🙄🙄


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 14, 2022)

Jensen said:



			“Reece James, he’s one of our own”. Wow that’s original, wonder where the Chelsea fans learnt that 🤔😂
		
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You want original?  How about "We're the only team in London with a European Cup".  Original enough for you?


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## Yorkhacker (Aug 14, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			You want original?  How about "We're the only team in London with a European Cup".  Original enough for you?
		
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And 5 premier league titles


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			You want original?  How about "We're the only team in London with a European Cup".  Original enough for you?
		
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What about the banner at The Bridge which states “Born is the King”. Sung by Spurs fans YEARS before about Hoddle and then Waddle.
More Chelsea imagination.🤔🙄


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			And 5 premier league titles
		
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Oh sorry, didn’t mean to rattle your cage !


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## Yorkhacker (Aug 14, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Oh sorry, didn’t mean to rattle your cage !
		
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I repeat...????????


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2022)

Guess it’s a London derby today 😂

come on guys - we all have something that we can unite about 

Laughing about Man Utd 😁😉😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558521226141859842


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 14, 2022)

Jensen said:



			What about the banner at The Bridge which states “Born is the King”. Sung by Spurs fans YEARS before about Hoddle and then Waddle.
More Chelsea imagination.🤔🙄
		
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"Born is the King" has been sung at Stamford Bridge for Peter Osgood since the late 60's and early 70's, long before Hoddle & Waddle were playing for Spurs. So remind me who stole that?


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## adam6177 (Aug 14, 2022)

Jensen said:



			What about the banner at The Bridge which states “Born is the King”. Sung by Spurs fans YEARS before about Hoddle and then Waddle.
More Chelsea imagination.🤔🙄
		
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Just to jump on this train of thought.... When Torres went to Chelsea the banner they made him had the Shankly gates on it 😁


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Just to jump on this train of thought.... When Torres went to Chelsea the banner they made him had the Shankly gates on it 😁
		
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😂

This one 

A copy of the Liverpool one


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## Midnight (Aug 14, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Will be upset it we don’t pump Everton 4-0 🤣

Dennis, Freuler and Kouyaté to come into the squad too.
and I still think we’ll get Garner and MGW (the latter being key to cooper staying long term I believe)
		
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I don't think MGW is worth the money they will have to pay at the moment. Garner would be good and if reports are to be believed we are sniffing round Aour as well. 

We battled well today and lady luck was with us, each game will be hard until the team settle. Good to have cook come on for his   experience, he was one  of our best signings last season in my opinion. 

I think Everton will be a hard game, just got to go at them with the same fight and passion shown today. 

Go on the Forest 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿


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## BrianM (Aug 14, 2022)

Chelsea were pretty much robbed off the victory by shocking Ref and Var decisions, the foul before the equaliser and then Richarlison in the keepers line of sight for the first and then the hair pulling was a red for me, it wasn’t just a tug, he almost took his head off 😂
No wonder Tuchel was raging.
You could be forgiven for thinking Spurs had just won the league the way the boy was celebrating at the end 🤣🤣🤣
Was a cracking game though.


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## Midnight (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Rules have changed now, it’s only a yellow and a pen.
		
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Is that down to the fact that the keeper could of saved it, so technically he wasn't last man?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2022)

Midnight said:



			Is that down to the fact that the keeper could of saved it, so technically he wasn't last man?
		
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Yep pretty much 

Still not sure why they didn’t go back to the tackle in the build up


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2022)

Midnight said:



			Is that down to the fact that the keeper could of saved it, so technically he wasn't last man?
		
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yeah it’s the old double jeopardy.


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## Midnight (Aug 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			yeah it’s the old double jeopardy.
		
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Cheers mate, I have only just rewatched it and thought that might be the reason. 👍🏿👍🏿


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## Midnight (Aug 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep pretty much

Still not sure why they didn’t go back to the tackle in the build up
		
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Cheers Phil 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿


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## Jensen (Aug 14, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			I repeat...????????
		
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As do I 🥱🥱…..when someone’s a bore, it’s time to ignore 🥱


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 14, 2022)

Midnight said:



			I don't think MGW is worth the money they will have to pay at the moment. Garner would be good and if reports are to be believed we are sniffing round Aour as well.

We battled well today and lady luck was with us, each game will be hard until the team settle. Good to have cook come on for his   experience, he was one  of our best signings last season in my opinion.

I think Everton will be a hard game, just got to go at them with the same fight and passion shown today.

Go on the Forest 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
		
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Gibbs White isn’t worth the money but I’m extremely worried Cooper may walk if he doesn’t get him; he was priority 1 and the Greeks have already bought in 2 players without consulting Him and Dane Murphy (Dennis and Awoniyi).


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 14, 2022)

Having watched the analysis back, I find out that Taylor & VAR can’t send Romero off for the clear hair pull, nor Taylor work out it’s a foul in real time, but Taylor has apparently given both managers straight red cards because he didn’t like the nature of their handshake. He is an utter Hampton.


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## Yorkhacker (Aug 15, 2022)

Jensen said:



			As do I 🥱🥱…..when someone’s a bore, it’s time to ignore 🥱
		
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No need to sulk, just because your arguments are crap


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

So pulling hair can’t be given as a foul unless it’s violent conduct and a red?
Spurs equalise from the resulting corner.
That’s VAR logic.
Very poor imo.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			No need to sulk, just because your arguments are crap
		
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Hasn’t answered either of the points made about the original songs so I may just take his advice. 🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep pretty much 

Still not sure why they didn’t go back to the tackle in the build up
		
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I'm assuming they did, and decided there was nothing wrong with it.


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## Midnight (Aug 15, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Gibbs White isn’t worth the money but I’m extremely worried Cooper may walk if he doesn’t get him; he was priority 1 and the Greeks have already bought in 2 players without consulting Him and Dane Murphy (Dennis and Awoniyi).
		
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I know what your saying but they have put some extremely high bids in for him, I think Cooper will stay as he knows if he manages to keep us up, it will enhance his reputation even more. 
I think it may off been different if they hadn't bid at all.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			So pulling hair can’t be given as a foul unless it’s violent conduct and a red?
Spurs equalise from the resulting corner.
That’s VAR logic.
Very poor imo.
		
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That's plain crazy. It's a foul, that should be enough. Presumably, reverse the situation and a penalty is given?

On other news, Chelsea apparently don't have enough players loaned out so they have bid £40m for Anthony Gordon. It's been rejected but the expectation is they will go higher plus possibly add a player in to the offer. I'm not sure I see where he fits in at Chelsea. They seem to have gone crazy this summer.


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## GG26 (Aug 15, 2022)

Jensen said:



			The chants about his nasty wife Rebekah probably affected him 😂😂
		
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We love it when the opposition goad JV re his wife as more often than not he then goes and scores.


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## Yorkhacker (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Hasn’t answered either of the points made about the original songs so I may just take his advice. 🤣🤣
		
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Like many Spurs supporters, it's obvious that his raging hatred of Chelsea completely affects his ability to post rationally! Orikuro is a notable exception


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## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2022)

Regarding the referee decisions. The Bentancur tackle, in real time I thought foul, but after several replays I'd say it was inconclusive - one angle looked like he got a toe on the ball, the other angle didn't. Irrespective, I'm sure it was well over a minute before the goal and they wouldn't review it that far back. I also think it's stupid when people are given offside just because it might have unsighted the goalie - they should only be doing that when he's right in front of him. I think it's a cop-out, so I'm glad they didn't do that on this occasion. On the replay after the game you can see that Mendy is looking past Richarlison and his own defender and can see the ball clearly before it's struck, then he's very slow to get down. And if you want to blame anyone for that goal, it's Jorginho for fannying about trying to do tricks in his own penalty area instead of clearing it.

The Romero hair pull is clear as day. They've obviously decided it's a yellow rather than a red, but it is quite stupid that VAR can award a red, but if it's a yellow they can't give the yellow or the free kick they just say "oh well we missed it". I mean they've already done the reviewing so I'm not sure why they don't just give the right decision anyway? That is daft and I totally understand the grievance on that, but that's just the absolute state of the rules since VAR came in.

Romero has quickly become the biggest house in the league, and while it is quite amusing, it's only a matter of time before he gets sent off in a key match for us. I think the hair pull was retribution for the stamp on him in the first half (although I wouldn't say the stamp was definitely deliberate, it was hard to tell). He's entertaining anyway, it's nice that having lost Lamela we've got someone to pick up the slack on that front. 

I'm a huge fan of Perisic taking set pieces with both feet as well. Delivered that corner with his left, 3 minutes after taking a free kick from the other side with his right. I love a two-footed player, and Spurs seem to have more than most now.


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## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Like many Spurs supporters, it's obvious that his raging hatred of Chelsea completely affects his ability to post rationally! Orikuro is a notable exception
		
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Thanks, I hope I haven't just ruined that perception above.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

I don't think the goal would ever be ruled for offside, for getting in the goalkeepers eye line anyway. Last season they allowed Xhaka's goal against United, when the offside player was directly in line with ball and goalie. So, I'm not sure what criteria they use anymore.

Watched MOTD2 and they mentioned that Huth got a retrospective ban 3 game for hair pulling. When it is as blatant as that, it is petulant and not sure why it can't be an automatic red. However, as it is apparently not, I get why VAR could do nothing.


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## Piece (Aug 15, 2022)

Jamie Carragher had to be corrected on VAR use yesterday, as he got it blatantly wrong .


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## Piece (Aug 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Regarding the referee decisions. The Bentancur tackle, in real time I thought foul, but after several replays I'd say it was inconclusive - one angle looked like he got a toe on the ball, the other angle didn't. Irrespective, I'm sure it was well over a minute before the goal and they wouldn't review it that far back. I also think it's stupid when people are given offside just because it might have unsighted the goalie - they should only be doing that when he's right in front of him. I think it's a cop-out, so I'm glad they didn't do that on this occasion. On the replay after the game you can see that Mendy is looking past Richarlison and his own defender and can see the ball clearly before it's struck, then he's very slow to get down. And if you want to blame anyone for that goal, it's Jorginho for fannying about trying to do tricks in his own penalty area instead of clearing it.

The Romero hair pull is clear as day. They've obviously decided it's a yellow rather than a red, but it is quite stupid that VAR can award a red, but if it's a yellow they can't give the yellow or the free kick they just say "oh well we missed it". I mean they've already done the reviewing so I'm not sure why they don't just give the right decision anyway? That is daft and I totally understand the grievance on that, but that's just the absolute state of the rules since VAR came in.

Romero has quickly become the biggest house in the league, and while it is quite amusing, it's only a matter of time before he gets sent off in a key match for us. I think the hair pull was retribution for the stamp on him in the first half (although I wouldn't say the stamp was definitely deliberate, it was hard to tell). He's entertaining anyway, it's nice that having lost Lamela we've got someone to pick up the slack on that front. 

I'm a huge fan of Perisic taking set pieces with both feet as well. Delivered that corner with his left, 3 minutes after taking a free kick from the other side with his right. I love a two-footed player, and Spurs seem to have more than most now.
		
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Nice post.

Was the real reason Chelsea didn't win yesterday down to the fact that couldn't put their chances away after dominating most of the game and their inability to defend a corner in the last minute when no-one in a blue shirt jumped for the ball? Blaming the ref, again, is clutching at straws here really.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



*Regarding the referee decisions. The Bentancur tackle, in real time I thought foul, but after several replays I'd say it was inconclusive - one angle looked like he got a toe on the ball, the other angle didn't. Irrespective, I'm sure it was well over a minute before the goal and they wouldn't review it that far back. I also think it's stupid when people are given offside just because it might have unsighted the goalie - they should only be doing that when he's right in front of him. I think it's a cop-out, so I'm glad they didn't do that on this occasion. On the replay after the game you can see that Mendy is looking past Richarlison and his own defender and can see the ball clearly before it's struck, then he's very slow to get down. And if you want to blame anyone for that goal, it's Jorginho for fannying about trying to do tricks in his own penalty area instead of clearing it.*

*The Romero hair pull is clear as day. They've obviously decided it's a yellow rather than a red, but it is quite stupid that VAR can award a red, but if it's a yellow they can't give the yellow or the free kick they just say "oh well we missed it". I mean they've already done the reviewing so I'm not sure why they don't just give the right decision anyway? That is daft and I totally understand the grievance on that, but that's just the absolute state of the rules since VAR came in.*

*Romero has quickly become the biggest house in the league, and while it is quite amusing, it's only a matter of time before he gets sent off in a key match for us. I think the hair pull was retribution for the stamp on him in the first half (although I wouldn't say the stamp was definitely deliberate, it was hard to tell). He's entertaining anyway, it's nice that having lost Lamela we've got someone to pick up the slack on that front. *

I'm a huge fan of Perisic taking set pieces with both feet as well. Delivered that corner with his left, 3 minutes after taking a free kick from the other side with his right. I love a two-footed player, and Spurs seem to have more than most now.
		
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This lot saves me writing it as a neutral and it is quite refreshing to read a post where a fan of said club has not put there rose tinted glasses on.
Re the hair pull, it once more showed the failings of VAR. Stockley park saw the hair pull, they saw the player pulled to the floor, it was intentional, yet not deemed a red. How’s that, it was stupid and if he had walked there was only one person to blame. Yet because VAR rules cannot give a yellow, the Corner stands. advantage Spurs and goal.
If Spurs had not scored, we would be hardly having this discussion. They did and now all of a sudden the ref is a Tit. Yet VAR put him in that position.
I thought the ref had a good game in which player shithousery was taken to another level. I await the next time a players hair is pulled and the “ Perp” is sent off then we can have a 10 page discussion re consistency or inconsistency of referee decisions.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Thanks, I hope I haven't just ruined that perception above. 

Click to expand...

No think that’s pretty much spot on.


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## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This lot saves me writing it as a neutral and it is quite refreshing to read a post where a fan of said club has not put there rose tinted glasses on.
Re the hair pull, it once more showed the failings of VAR. Stockley park saw the hair pull, they saw the player pulled to the floor, it was intentional, yet not deemed a red. How’s that, it was stupid and if he had walked there was only one person to blame. Yet because VAR rules cannot give a yellow, the Corner stands. advantage Spurs and goal.
If Spurs had not scored, we would be hardly having this discussion.* They did and now all of a sudden the ref is a Tit. Yet VAR put him in that position.*
I thought the ref had a good game in which player shithousery was taken to another level. I await the next time a players hair is pulled and the “ Perp” is sent off then we can have a 10 page discussion re consistency or inconsistency of referee decisions.
		
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I'd agree that it's hard to blame the ref for that one. He's missed an off the ball incident, which happens all the time, after that he's relying on VAR which has said play on. 🤷‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This lot saves me writing it as a neutral and it is quite refreshing to read a post where a fan of said club has not put there rose tinted glasses on.
Re the hair pull, it once more showed the failings of VAR. Stockley park saw the hair pull, they saw the player pulled to the floor, it was intentional, yet not deemed a red*. How’s that, it was stupid and if he had walked there was only one person to blame. Yet because VAR rules cannot give a yellow, the Corner stands. advantage Spurs and goal.*
If Spurs had not scored, we would be hardly having this discussion. They did and now all of a sudden the ref is a Tit. Yet VAR put him in that position.
I thought the ref had a good game in which player shithousery was taken to another level. I await the next time a players hair is pulled and the “ Perp” is sent off then we can have a 10 page discussion re consistency or inconsistency of referee decisions.
		
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It is not necessarily VAR's fault. It depends on what 2 angles (highlighted) that you think should be correct.

If it SHOULD be a red, then yes, the person in VAR is to blame. However, if the hair pulling did not fit the criteria for being a red, then the VAR ref could do nothing. It is not a VAR issue, it is an issue with the laws of the game.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'd agree that it's hard to blame the ref for that one. He's missed an off the ball incident, which happens all the time, after that he's relying on VAR which has said play on. 🤷‍♂️
		
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One thing they could change is .
While VAR are looking at an incident the ref could just go and look for himself.
He is just standing on the pitch being harassed by players usually while the game is stopped.
If there needs to be a referral to the monitor he has already seen it again.
He could then make his decision based on what HE thinks not VAR.
In this blatant hair pull he could give a yellow and a foul not a corner.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It is not necessarily VAR's fault. It depends on what 2 angles (highlighted) that you think should be correct.

If it SHOULD be a red, then yes, the person in VAR is to blame. However, if the hair pulling did not fit the criteria for being a red, then the VAR ref could do nothing. It is not a VAR issue, it is an issue with the laws of the game.
		
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It’s violent conduct which is a red.


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## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			One thing they could change is .
While VAR are looking at an incident the ref could just go and look for himself.
He is just standing on the pitch being harassed by players usually while the game is stopped.
If there needs to be a referral to the monitor he has already seen it again.
He could then make his decision based on what HE thinks not VAR.
In this blatant hair pull he could give a yellow and a foul not a corner.
		
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I've said it before but I hate the Stockley Park nonsense. In my opinion VAR should have simply been the screen at the side that gives the referee the opportunity to rewatch something if he decides he needs to. Not somebody sat in an office who's not managing the game telling him what to do.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I've said it before but I hate the Stockley Park nonsense. In my opinion VAR should have simply been the screen at the side that gives the referee the opportunity to rewatch something if he decides he needs to. Not somebody sat in an office who's not managing the game telling him what to do.
		
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But if he dosnt see something he needs backup to bring his attention to it.
So a hybrid of what we have.
But the ref should have the last say I agree.


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## GB72 (Aug 15, 2022)

Not being able to hear the conversation between the ref and VAR does not help as it is difficult to understand the reasoning behing any decision. In rugby it is a constant dialogue as the match goes on but the ref is clearly in control. The video ref can bring things to hte attention of the ref and the ref can ask for play to be checked whilst the game continues and it can be used for anything that the ref was unsure off or did not see. When it comes to important decisions though, the question the ref asks the VAR to check is important as it will often tell who will get the benefit of the doubt if the outcome is unclear. The rugby system as a whole may not work due to the difference in pace of the game  but from what I have seen of VAR, it seems to be far to disparate from what is happpening at the ground and the person watching the video and the ref do not appear to act as a team. In rugby the video is a tool to aid the ref and not something to take the decisions away from them


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## Bdill93 (Aug 15, 2022)

Only villa could sign a much needed new CB and lose him for the season after 2 games 😂

Wesley all over again!

Still it could be worse - could be United 😂


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s violent conduct which is a red.
		
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I agree, as I alluded to in my previous post.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I've said it before but I hate the Stockley Park nonsense. In my opinion VAR should have simply been the screen at the side that gives the referee the opportunity to rewatch something if he decides he needs to. Not somebody sat in an office who's not managing the game telling him what to do.
		
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That wouldn't work very well. Pretty much, by definition, if the referee didn't give it the first time he didn't see it. Or, he did see it. but from his angle whatever decision he made he was happy with. So, why would he then go and review his own decision? By the screams of the fans or the shouting of the players? It is bad enough now, but you'd have players shouting and screaming at refs, making him doubt himself every time, that he would have to double check. More often than not, his original decision would have been just fine anyway. Or, if he didn't decide to review it, there will be times he blatantly made a wrong decision based on other camera angles.

The VAR referee is a qualified referee as well. It isn't a robot. So, we need to rely on their judgement just as much as the guy we see on the pitch. The key is how it is implemented, so that it doesn't completely destroy the flow of the game where they are looking at every single moment of contact, whilst ensuring players don't get away with red card challenges or goals are not wrongly allowed or disallowed


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Not being able to hear the conversation between the ref and VAR does not help as it is difficult to understand the reasoning behing any decision. In rugby it is a constant dialogue as the match goes on but the ref is clearly in control. The video ref can bring things to hte attention of the ref and the ref can ask for play to be checked whilst the game continues and it can be used for anything that the ref was unsure off or did not see. When it comes to important decisions though, the question the ref asks the VAR to check is important as it will often tell who will get the benefit of the doubt if the outcome is unclear. The rugby system as a whole may not work due to the difference in pace of the game  but from what I have seen of VAR, it seems to be far to disparate from what is happpening at the ground and the person watching the video and the ref do not appear to act as a team. In rugby the video is a tool to aid the ref and not something to take the decisions away from them
		
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The commentators can hear the discussion between VAR and the ref. Neville and Carragher were discussing this pre-season. They said it was really good and professional, they just couldn't understand why that could not be opened up for the viewers to hear as well. They reckon it would improve perception of VAR rather than hinder it.


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## GB72 (Aug 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The commentators can hear the discussion between VAR and the ref. Neville and Carragher were discussing this pre-season. They said it was really good and professional, they just couldn't understand why that could not be opened up for the viewers to hear as well. They reckon it would improve perception of VAR rather than hinder it.
		
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Totally agree, in rugby we have that and even the crowd can buy a ref mike to tune in to what they are saying. Makes it far easier to understand what is going on and what it causing any delay.


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## Yorkhacker (Aug 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Thanks, I hope I haven't just ruined that perception above. 

Click to expand...

No at all. You are definitely the most unbiased (insert team here) fan I've come across. I remember you writing, that you don't let being a Spurs supporter define you. I guess that helps you be less emotive when discussing football.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Totally agree, in rugby we have that and *even the crowd can buy a ref mike to tune in to what they are saying.* Makes it far easier to understand what is going on and what it causing any delay.
		
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And another way for someone to make money. Everyone is a winner.


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## GB72 (Aug 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			And another way for someone to make money. Everyone is a winner.
		
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Exactly, they sell at over £5.00 a pop so a nice little earner. Hell, if they were sold by the FA and they sold by them at grounds up and down the country it would soon pay for Stockley Park.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That wouldn't work very well. Pretty much, by definition, if the referee didn't give it the first time he didn't see it. Or, he did see it. but from his angle whatever decision he made he was happy with. So, why would he then go and review his own decision? By the screams of the fans or the shouting of the players? It is bad enough now, but you'd have players shouting and screaming at refs, making him doubt himself every time, that he would have to double check. More often than not, his original decision would have been just fine anyway. Or, if he didn't decide to review it, there will be times he blatantly made a wrong decision based on other camera angles.

The VAR referee is a qualified referee as well. It isn't a robot. So, we need to rely on their judgement just as much as the guy we see on the pitch. The key is how it is implemented, so that it doesn't completely destroy the flow of the game where they are looking at every single moment of contact, whilst ensuring players don't get away with red card challenges or goals are not wrongly allowed or disallowed
		
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Yes but I think it was Mike Dean in VAR.
Might be better with a robot.


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## GB72 (Aug 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The commentators can hear the discussion between VAR and the ref. Neville and Carragher were discussing this pre-season. They said it was really good and professional, they just couldn't understand why that could not be opened up for the viewers to hear as well. They reckon it would improve perception of VAR rather than hinder it.
		
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Again, hate to sound like a stuck record but in rugby the video ref simply tells the ref that they are checking foul play over his earpiece of they see something whilst the match plays on and then tell the ref to stop play if they see something decisive. Again, would need tweaking for the pace in football but a simple message stating they have seen something and what it is that they are looking at should be all that is needed. Again, access to the link between the video ref and ref means we can see this is going on. 

Rugby uses the video as an extra set of eyes for the ref to use how they wish and that seems better than having regimented uses and decisions basically being made on their behalf.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This lot saves me writing it as a neutral and it is quite refreshing to read a post where a fan of said club has not put there rose tinted glasses on.
Re the hair pull, it once more showed the failings of VAR. Stockley park saw the hair pull, they saw the player pulled to the floor, it was intentional, yet not deemed a red. How’s that, it was stupid and if he had walked there was only one person to blame. Yet because VAR rules cannot give a yellow, the Corner stands. advantage Spurs and goal.
If Spurs had not scored, we would be hardly having this discussion. They did* and now all of a sudden the ref is a Tit. *

Click to expand...

No, not all of a sudden; Anthony Taylor has made a number of ridiculous decisions over the years against Chelsea.  He sent Kovacic off in the last FA Cup final against Arsenal for having his foot stamped on by an Arsenal player; he allowed a goal that should have been given offside in the previous FA Cup Final against Arsenal to stand; he saw absolutely nothing wrong with Harry Maguire driving his studs into Michy Batshuayi's groin in a petulant kick out; and perhaps the finest example was his yellow carding of Marcus Alonso for being karate kicked in the head by Gazzaniga.  And there are other examples, all of which have been held up by pundits & retired referees, not just irritated fans.  The only saving grace about the last example was that VAR actually overturned that one.



Tashyboy said:



*Yet VAR put him in that position*.
		
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No, he put himself in that position; the incident happened right in front of him, he should have seen enough of it to award the foul at the bare minimum.  The fact that Mike "It's all about me" Dean didn't decide that VAR should intervene just rubs salt into the wound.



Tashyboy said:



			I thought the ref had a good game in which player shithousery was taken to another level. *I await the next time a players hair is pulled *and the “ Perp” is sent off then we can have a 10 page discussion re consistency or inconsistency of referee decisions.
		
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We don't have to wait for the next time; Robert Huth received a respective 3 match ban in 2016 for pulling Marouane Fellaini's hair, so the precedent has been set.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-huth-manchester-united-leicester-city-banned

I've been watching football long enough to know that sometimes things go your way & sometimes they don't, but the number of times that they have gone against with this ref involved appears to be much more frequent than the law of averages would suggest.


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## IanM (Aug 15, 2022)

Football has a culture of not accepting the ref's decisions to the extent that doesn't exist in other sports.  The mess being made of video technology isn't helped by this.  The fact that we saw a ref run over to a screen yesterday with thousands of baying yobs behind it shows how daft the application of it is.  (And that is regardless of the rights an wrongs of the decisions in the match)


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## BiMGuy (Aug 15, 2022)

Maybe the ref was just fed up of Chelsea players begging for a free kick every time they fell over 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

The diving and screaming was almost at Arsenal pandemic level.


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## Piece (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			We don't have to wait for the next time; Robert Huth received a respective 3 match ban in 2016 for pulling Marouane Fellaini's hair, so the precedent has been set.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-huth-manchester-united-leicester-city-banned

I've been watching football long enough to know that sometimes things go your way & sometimes they don't, but the number of times that they have gone against with this ref involved appears to be much more frequent than the law of averages would suggest.
		
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The irony of that one is that two years later...
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ive-action-for-pulling-matteo-guendouzis-hair


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

IanM said:



			Football has a culture of not accepting the ref's decisions to the extent that doesn't exist in other sports.  The mess being made of video technology isn't helped by this.  The fact that we saw a ref run over to a screen yesterday *with thousands of baying yobs behind it shows how daft the application of it is*.  (And that is regardless of the rights an wrongs of the decisions in the match)
		
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Absolutely agree. I couldn't believe it when I saw the ref go over to the monitor, to have one set of fans immediately behind the screen yelling at him, and giving him all sorts of abuse (if the overturned decision was likely to go against them) and all sorts of encouragement (if the overturn would work in their favour).

Surely there must be an area where the screen could be placed to avoid this.

I don't think the people in charge, especially of refereeing, help themselves. There seems to be a culture of 100% defence of many of the worst decisions made, with zero accountability (unless a ref has made an absolute howler like 3 yellow cards to one player). Any decision that has any sort of subjectivity, the referees association back the decision as absolutely correct, no more to say. Then the exact opposite decision will be made to following week for a similar incident, again that decision is backed as being 100% correct. Meanwhile, we have players, fans, pundits and journalists absolutely slating these decisions, with no counter argument from the ref, except for the generic statement that comes out from his bosses. 

The end result is extreme mistrust from many, and automatically blaming the referee for any decision that went against them, especially if the result did not go their way. I'm sure, for example, Chelsea fans will happily slate Taylor for all the decisions that went against them. However, they will not give him any credit for any decisions he made in their favour. I am guessing, over the years, Taylor will have awarded a decision Chelsea's way, much to the anger of the opposition. 

If we could hear VAR and the ref speak, at least we could hear their reasoning over any decision. It also puts more accountability on the VAR ref. Assuming their bosses believe in their ability and professionalism, then I can only see this being a positive step forward. It would also be nice to hear an adult conversation in amongst all the theatrics from players and managers.


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## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			We don't have to wait for the next time; Robert Huth received a respective 3 match ban in 2016 for pulling Marouane Fellaini's hair, so the precedent has been set.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-huth-manchester-united-leicester-city-banned

Click to expand...

That just makes it more baffling really. I can't imagine they'll review it again here and apply the same punishment, as that would be admitting that the initial VAR review got it wrong, and lord knows they hate admitting that!


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

Another lesson from the weekend. Get your hair cut. If you have a silly big bouffant, you might think it looks pretty, but it is there to be pulled


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## Tashyboy (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



*No, not all of a sudden*; Anthony Taylor has made a number of ridiculous decisions over the years against Chelsea.  He sent Kovacic off in the last FA Cup final against Arsenal for having his foot stamped on by an Arsenal player; he allowed a goal that should have been given offside in the previous FA Cup Final against Arsenal to stand; he saw absolutely nothing wrong with Harry Maguire driving his studs into Michy Batshuayi's groin in a petulant kick out; and perhaps the finest example was his yellow carding of Marcus Alonso for being karate kicked in the head by Gazzaniga.  And there are other examples, all of which have been held up by pundits & retired referees, not just irritated fans.  The only saving grace about the last example was that VAR actually overturned that one.

When I quoted the ref, it don’t just mean Anthony Taylor, it means all of them who are referees. Yesterday example was an example

*No, he put himself in that position; the incident happened right in front of him*, *he should have seen enough of it to award the foul at the bare minimum.*  The fact that Mike "It's all about me" Dean didn't decide that VAR should intervene just rubs salt into the wound.

If you saw the Forest game, you could say exactly the same when the West Ham player ran into the Forest defender. The ref should of seen it, he never did. He Went to the screen and overturned the goal. Exactly the same happened at Chelsea. VAR saw something yet it never went further. Why? He should of give a foul at the bare minimum.

*We don't have to wait for the next time; Robert Huth received a respective 3 match ban in 2016 for pulling Marouane Fellaini's hair, *so the precedent has been set.

Exactly, this was mentioned on MOTD last night. Stockley knew this yet nothing happened. Why? They should have to answer for there decision, But it all falls back onto Anthony. His workmates never helped him.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-huth-manchester-united-leicester-city-banned

I've been watching football long enough to know that sometimes things go your way & sometimes they don't, but the number of times that they have gone against with this ref involved appears to be much more frequent than the law of averages would suggest.
		
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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			No, not all of a sudden; Anthony Taylor has made a number of ridiculous decisions over the years against Chelsea.  He sent Kovacic off in the last FA Cup final against Arsenal for having his foot stamped on by an Arsenal player; he allowed a goal that should have been given offside in the previous FA Cup Final against Arsenal to stand; he saw absolutely nothing wrong with Harry Maguire driving his studs into Michy Batshuayi's groin in a petulant kick out; and perhaps the finest example was his yellow carding of Marcus Alonso for being karate kicked in the head by Gazzaniga.  And there are other examples, all of which have been held up by pundits & retired referees, not just irritated fans.  The only saving grace about the last example was that VAR actually overturned that one.



No, he put himself in that position; the incident happened right in front of him, he should have seen enough of it to award the foul at the bare minimum.  The fact that Mike "It's all about me" Dean didn't decide that VAR should intervene just rubs salt into the wound.



We don't have to wait for the next time; Robert Huth received a respective 3 match ban in 2016 for pulling Marouane Fellaini's hair, so the precedent has been set.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-huth-manchester-united-leicester-city-banned

I've been watching football long enough to know that sometimes things go your way & sometimes they don't, but the number of times that they have gone against with this ref involved appears to be much more frequent than the law of averages would suggest.
		
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Not just you though he seems to do it every week.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Another lesson from the weekend. Get your hair cut. If you have a silly big bouffant, you might think it looks pretty, but it is there to be pulled 

Click to expand...

So all those lionesses and young girls will need short back and sides, just because the refs can’t do their job.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			So all those lionesses and young girls will need short back and sides, just because the refs can’t do their job.
		
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Absolutely. Worked for Sinead O'Connor at her peak, or Elle from Stranger Things.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Absolutely. Worked for Sinead O'Connor at her peak, or Elle from Stranger Things.
		
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Who did they play for?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			...

The end result is extreme mistrust from many, and automatically blaming the referee for any decision that went against them, especially if the result did not go their way. I'm sure, for example, Chelsea fans will happily slate Taylor for all the decisions that went against them. *However, they will not give him any credit for any decisions he made in their favour. *I am guessing, over the years, Taylor will have awarded a decision Chelsea's way, much to the anger of the opposition.

If we could hear VAR and the ref speak, at least we could hear their reasoning over any decision. It also puts more accountability on the VAR ref. Assuming their bosses believe in their ability and professionalism, then I can only see this being a positive step forward. It would also be nice to hear an adult conversation in amongst all the theatrics from players and managers.
		
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Perhaps you could point those out to me then?

Most referees there isn't an issue with; the fans accept they make mistakes & accept they even up to a degree.  In the case of Taylor the sheer magnitude & the number of them that go against far outweighs anything he might have given us in error.

Yesterday's was right under his nose.  There really is no excuse.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not just you though he seems to do it every week.
		
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I can't say I've noticed it with him & other teams but I'm happy to be corrected if you can point them out to me, both in numbers & magnitude of error.  However I'd have to say I'm sceptical because if he was that bad with everyone he wouldn't get an appointment on Hackney Marshes.


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## Neilds (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Perhaps you could point those out to me then?

Most referees there isn't an issue with; the fans accept they make mistakes & accept they even up to a degree.  In the case of Taylor the sheer magnitude & the number of them that go against far outweighs anything he might have given us in error.

Yesterday's was right under his nose.  There really is no excuse.
		
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I suspect that, because he has given a few decisions against your team, you are now looking for every ‘mistake’ you think he makes and this is skewing your results. Just like people think high handicappers win every knockout match 😀


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I suspect that, because he has given a few decisions against your team, you are now looking for every ‘mistake’ you think he makes and this is skewing your results. Just like people think high handicappers win every knockout match 😀
		
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I suspect you're wrong.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



*Perhaps you could point those out to me then?*

Most referees there isn't an issue with; the fans accept they make mistakes & accept they even up to a degree.  In the case of Taylor the sheer magnitude & the number of them that go against far outweighs anything he might have given us in error.

Yesterday's was right under his nose.  There really is no excuse.
		
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I can't, because they are long forgotten. You would never have made a point about complaining about them if they went in your favour, and I don't remember any other fans blaming Taylor as much as you have done. Doesn't mean no one has, I just don't remember it.

There must be an excuse, because he didn't give it. Excuses may be that he didn't see it as he was looking in a slightly different direction, and it happened quickly in real time. Maybe he saw something, but in that split second wasn't sure if it was anything major or not. Maybe if he had seen it again on video, he'd have made a very different decision. I don't know, you'd have to have that conversation with him.

However, I doubt the reason is that he is incompetent. I know fans love to use that old excuse when they are in pain after their team losing out. But, has he not been a referee long enough that if he truly was incompetent, he could easily have been phased out and another referee come in (unless all referees are incompetent I suppose). By the sounds of it, this is a Chelsea issue. Poor old Chelsea? However, if he really was biased against Chelsea I would be extremely surprised. It seems like a huge risk to a referees career for them to be intentionally biased for or against any team. So, although I cannot rule out that he has taken bribes from a Chelsea hater, or he is a secret Chelsea hater himself, I doubt that is the excuse.

As a neutral, Taylor's performance didn't stand out as being bad. The tackle on Havertz was borderline, so I was a bit surprised it wasn't given. However, we have seen a lot of those types of challenges not being penalised this season, and a lot happened between that and the goal. The hair pull was a foul, but a referee probably has about 18-20 players in and around the box when a corner comes in, all of them jostling away. So his focus may have been in a slight different direction when the hair pull happened.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I can't, because they are long forgotten. You would never have made a point about complaining about them if they went in your favour, and I don't remember any other fans blaming Taylor as much as you have done. Doesn't mean no one has, I just don't remember it.

There must be an excuse, because he didn't give it. Excuses may be that he didn't see it as he was looking in a slightly different direction, and it happened quickly in real time. Maybe he saw something, but in that split second wasn't sure if it was anything major or not. Maybe if he had seen it again on video, he'd have made a very different decision. I don't know, you'd have to have that conversation with him.

However, I doubt the reason is that he is incompetent. I know fans love to use that old excuse when they are in pain after their team losing out. But, has he not been a referee long enough that if he truly was incompetent, he could easily have been phased out and another referee come in (unless all referees are incompetent I suppose). By the sounds of it, this is a Chelsea issue. Poor old Chelsea? However, if he really was biased against Chelsea I would be extremely surprised. It seems like a huge risk to a referees career for them to be intentionally biased for or against any team. So, although I cannot rule out that he has taken bribes from a Chelsea hater, or he is a secret Chelsea hater himself, I doubt that is the excuse.

As a neutral, Taylor's performance didn't stand out as being bad. The tackle on Havertz was borderline, so I was a bit surprised it wasn't given. However, we have seen a lot of those types of challenges not being penalised this season, and a lot happened between that and the goal. The hair pull was a foul, but a referee probably has about 18-20 players in and around the box when a corner comes in, all of them jostling away. So his focus may have been in a slight different direction when the hair pull happened.
		
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Yes I think he probably didn’t see it as most people are watching where the ball is going.
No excuse for VAR though.
Did Dean ask him to look at it?   If not why as it would have been red and a foul.
I thought that was what VAR was for.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I think he probably didn’t see it as most people are watching where the ball is going.
No excuse for VAR though.
Did Dean ask him to look at it?   If not why as it would have been red and a foul.
I thought that was what VAR was for.
		
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That is exactly what I mentioned earlier though. Is hair pulling an automatic red card? If not, it is entirely subjective and I can see why a ref would not be convinced it is a red card. Not like the player was seriously injured. However, if it SHOULD be an automatic red card, like spitting would be, then the VAR referee would definitely have to take the blame for making a blunder.


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## IanM (Aug 15, 2022)

Stupid Palace,  you've made them angry now!


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## chrisd (Aug 15, 2022)

Well we've had them on the ropes for half an hour !


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## BrianM (Aug 15, 2022)

If the pitch was drier, Virgil might not have slipped there 😂😂


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2022)

lol, wtf is he arguing about, get off the pitch you idiot. enjoy your break, be lucky if its not extended from 3 games


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## Piece (Aug 15, 2022)

😱👋


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## Don Barzini (Aug 15, 2022)

Obviously a red card. But the way the Palace defender went down was hilarious! Like a domino! 🤣


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## Don Barzini (Aug 15, 2022)

What a goal!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol, wtf is he arguing about, get off the pitch you idiot. enjoy your break, be lucky if its not extended from 3 games
		
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Was a stupid reaction deserved the card - i do hope Anderson is ok though


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was a stupid reaction deserved the card - i do hope Anderson is ok though
		
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Me too, no one should be subjected to a headbutt at work (especially when it was actually his 2nd attempt at doing so!)


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			Me too, no one should be subjected to a headbutt at work (especially when it was actually his 2nd attempt at doing so!)
		
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let’s hope the injury isn’t too serious from all the rolling around


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			let’s hope the injury isn’t too serious from all the rolling around
		
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yeah, youd never see a liverpool player doing that would you lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			yeah, youd never see a liverpool player doing that would you lol
		
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Don’t recall saying they wouldn’t 🤷‍♂️


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## GreiginFife (Aug 15, 2022)

Zaha would be some player if he spent as much time chasing the ball down as he does complaining about everything to everyone. Always looks to be blaming someone else, even when HE runs the ball out of play.


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Zaha would be some player if he spent as much time chasing the ball down as he does complaining about everything to everyone. Always looks to be blaming someone else, even when HE runs the ball out of play.
		
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is he a liverpool fan


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## GreiginFife (Aug 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			is he a liverpool fan 

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I'm sure we'll be told at some point that Andersson walked in to Nunez's head...


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## pokerjoke (Aug 15, 2022)

Klopp arm waving on the touchline
Stop it,it’s just antics for the crowd 🛎


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## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2022)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ctive-action-for-pulling-marc-cucurellas-hair

Well that's interesting. Hair pulling "not considered an offence"?? That opens up a gigantic can of worms doesn't it? I think @Swango1980 was right earlier - skinheads and short back and sides all round or you're going to be very easy to mark at corners!


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2022)

surprised to see a Viera side so bad against playing against 10 men, maybe he only trains them for them having 10 lol


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## chrisd (Aug 15, 2022)

Good result for us!


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## BiMGuy (Aug 15, 2022)

Dry pitch again?

How much time does Zaha spend messing around with his socks and shorts during a game?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...ctive-action-for-pulling-marc-cucurellas-hair

Well that's interesting. Hair pulling "not considered an offence"?? That opens up a gigantic can of worms doesn't it? I think @Swango1980 was right earlier - skinheads and short back and sides all round or you're going to be very easy to mark at corners!
		
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And completely contradictory to the retrospective action taken against Huth for the same offence.

It's good to know that the rules will be applied consistently by the guardians of the game.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 15, 2022)

Relegation battle next Monday night then At the swamp 😳😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2022)

Well it was certainly an exciting game , we couldn’t finish a crossword in the first half and smacked by a sucker punch - heck of a finish from Zaha 

Second half same story until Nunez reacted stupidly , hopefully he will learn from that but CB’s are going to goad strikers, and Anderson was certainly all over the players 

Great finish from Diaz who was superb second half and a few other chances could have got the win 

Impressed with Elliot - certainly looks like he is going to be a hell of a player


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## RRidges (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And completely contradictory to the retrospective action taken against Huth for the same offence.

It's good to know that the rules will be applied consistently by the guardians of the game. 

Click to expand...

Wasn't that before VAR (2016)? So the only action possible was subsequent/retrospective action?


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## 4LEX (Aug 15, 2022)

Liverpool badly miss Mane, impossible to replace over a long season especially as Salah as been off it since January. One of the worst Liverpool displays I've seen, the back up isn't good enough. TAA playing so far forward when he's got nothing in his locker apart from exploiting space and crossing was desperate stuff. Early days yet but you can't afford to give City a 4 point start especially when the games have been easy.

Zaha is so talented on the ball and if he could finish he'd be playing for one the elite sides. Awful snatchy shots and more concerned about being a victim and complaining about free kicks. Such a waste of abilty.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool badly miss Mane, impossible to replace over a long season especially as Salah as been off it since January. One of the worst Liverpool displays I've seen, the back up isn't good enough. TAA playing so far forward when he's got nothing in his locker apart from exploiting space and crossing was desperate stuff. Early days yet but you can't afford to give City a 4 point start especially when the games have been easy.

Zaha is so talented on the ball and if he could finish he'd be playing for one the elite sides. Awful snatchy shots and more concerned about being a victim and complaining about free kicks. Such a waste of abilty.
		
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We were 14 points behind City half way through last season 

We played like that many times with Mane in the team - Diaz was superb , Nunez wasn’t on it and what we did miss was having Jota to bring on 

It’s all looking a bit rusty at the moment


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## RRidges (Aug 15, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Zaha is so talented on the ball and if he could finish *he'd be playing for one the elite sides*.
		
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That would imply that you don't think Liverpool is one of the elite sides! 
You really do post a load of rubbish at times!


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

RRidges said:



			That would imply that you don't think Liverpool is one of the elite sides! 
You really do post a load of rubbish at times!

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What’s Zaha got to do with Liverpool?


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## RRidges (Aug 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			What’s Zaha got to do with Liverpool?
		
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Ah! My bad! Apologies all round!
CP definitely needs to keep him!


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Our finishing again let us down.
Palace tactics were good in the main.
Can’t remember their keeper saving to many.

The ref pulled Palaces captain over about time wasting then did nothing about the keeper wasting time until the 91st min ,thought they were clamping down.


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## Red devil (Aug 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Relegation battle next Monday night then At the swamp 😳😉
		
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Big 6 pointer


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## Tashyboy (Aug 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Well I quite enjoyed that. For a friendly 😉 it was a good game to watch. For the life of me though, why they picked the King power stadium it is beyond me. Normally a game where the fan base is 50/50 one set of fans go one way, the other set the other. Yet at King power all the fans have to go the same way. It was asking for trouble. I think both sets of fans will be happy with that performance. I would be surprised if there is more than 3 points between them at the end of the season.
couple of things from the game.
Liverpool brought on a couple of kids re subs. Do Liverpool have any players out, is the squad thin. I don’t know.
Liverpool for the first time I have noticed managed to slow the game down at certain points.It will give the team a “ breather “ from there high intensity pressing etc. Is that a new thing or just something I have not seen before.
City do play narrow and compress the game in one half. Liverpool,early on hit a few cross field balls and stretched City.
*Liverpool do play or played very high. City never really took advantage. Other teams could.*

Click to expand...

a post of mine from the community shield. Palace did tonight and I think it could be Liverpool’s undoing This season.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 15, 2022)

Red devil said:



			Big 6 pointer
		
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😂😂👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			a post of mine from the community shield. Palace did tonight and I think it could be Liverpool’s undoing This season.
		
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They have been playing a high line for 4 seasons now since VVD arrived 🙄


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2022)

RRidges said:



			Wasn't that before VAR (2016)? So the only action possible was subsequent/retrospective action?
		
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It's not about the way the issue is, or isn't being dealt with; it's about the fact that exactly the same action is or isn't an offence depending on which way the wind's blowing, what day of the week it is or any other factor that the guardians of the game choose not to disclose to us mere mortals that keep them in gainful employment.  It's about honesty, transparency & consistency.


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## Slime (Aug 15, 2022)

Ridiculous headbutt by Nunez, but stunning goal from Diaz, absolutely superb goal.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Slime said:



			Ridiculous headbutt by Nunez, but stunning goal from Diaz, absolutely superb goal.
		
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Yes think he will be on Klopps office carpet tomorrow


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## RRidges (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's not about the way the issue is, or isn't being dealt with; it's about the fact that exactly the same action is or isn't an offence depending on which way the wind's blowing, what day of the week it is or any other factor that the guardians of the game choose not to disclose to us mere mortals that keep them in gainful employment.  It's about honesty & consistency.
		
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So you are comparing incidents 5-6 years apart and want consistency. That's simply unrealistic! And, frankly, a bit sad!
FWIW. I'm pretty sure that the rules about hair-pulling haven't changed all that much though, but it's always about how serious the offence was - and maybe in the context of the game also.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2022)

RRidges said:



			So you are comparing incidents 5-6 years apart and want consistency. That's simply unrealistic!
FWIW. I'm pretty sure that the rules about hair-pulling haven't changed all that much though, but it's always about how serious the offence was - and maybe in the context of the game also.
		
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It's not unrealistic if the laws of the game haven't changed in that respect.  If there was retrospective action 6 years ago & there was no specific offence then it was violent conduct; so what's changed that means it wasn't violent conduct yesterday?  The met of dealing with it may have changed, the offence is the same.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

I can’t belive hair pulling isn’t a foul!
If you pull someone back be it shirt ,shorts, foot ,hand ,arm or Hair it’s a foul.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes think he will be on Klopps office carpet tomorrow
		
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With a book down the back of his tracksuit bottoms?


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			With a book down the back of his tracksuit bottoms?
		
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He can just put his wallet there that should do.


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## RRidges (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's not unrealistic if the laws of the game haven't changed in that respect.  If there was retrospective action 6 years ago & there was no specific offence then it was violent conduct; so what's changed that means it wasn't violent conduct yesterday?  The met of dealing with it may have changed, the offence is the same.
		
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I believe it's related to how hard, therefore how violent, the act is. so the 2 cases are very likely different. 
In this case both the ref and VAR seemed to deem that it wasn't 'Violent Conduct'. I'm ambivalent about that, though there are plenty of other acts that would come into a similar category - such as shirt-pulling (from the neck) and a significant number of tackles!


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2022)

RRidges said:



*I believe it's related to how hard, therefore how violent, the act is. so the 2 cases are very likely different.*
In this case both the ref and VAR seemed to deem that it wasn't 'Violent Conduct'. I'm ambivalent about that, though there are plenty of other acts that would come into a similar category - such as shirt-pulling (from the neck) and a significant number of tackles!
		
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Yes, indeed they are;











Fellaini remained standing & elbowed back, Cucurella was put on his arse.  So in light of that perhaps you could explain why one was punished & one not?


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## Swango1980 (Aug 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I can’t belive hair pulling isn’t a foul!
If you pull someone back be it shirt ,shorts, foot ,hand ,arm or Hair it’s a foul.
		
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No one said it isn't a foul. Even the referees will say it is a foul. The question is not about it being a foul, it is whether is should be a red card or not.

There is no way in my mind that Taylor saw the guys hair being pulled and just allowed play to continue. If he'd seen that, it is a foul all day long. Whether he gives yellow or red is unknown. But, the VAR couldn't intervene for it simply being a foul. Only if they thought it was a red.


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## RRidges (Aug 15, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yes, indeed they are;











Fellaini remained standing & elbowed back, Cucurella was put on his arse.  So in light of that perhaps you could explain why one was punished & one not?
		
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Another from 6 seasons ago.
You'll have to ask the individual refs (and VAR for the 2nd one)! But I expect they didn't deem it 'Violent Conduct'! Btw Cucurella ended upon his arse - and within a few yards of the Ref. I suspect there was suspicion of some simulation involved - and again, VAR didn't seem to overule.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet (barnet?) about this. Is there some reason?
Btw. According to Luis van Gaal, it's not allowed except in sex masochism. Then it's allowed! Not something I can comment on!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2022)

Dominated the game against a really tough, organised low block of 9 men behind the ball. Had a few good chances before we conceded.

Thought Fabinho was very poor in the build up for their goal, Eze sold him an easy dummy, he didnt need to get in that close or try and take him out. Eze was superb all game. 

Sending off changed the game. Nunez' reaction to be being pushed was stupid, utter madness,  Andersen's was even worse.

Notable mention to Tierney, he was determined to book the goalie but it was never going to be a second before 90mins, the worst PL ref by a margin, hes that bad  i wouldnt wish him on Everton.


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## BrianM (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			No one said it isn't a foul. Even the referees will say it is a foul. The question is not about it being a foul, it is whether is should be a red card or not.

There is no way in my mind that Taylor saw the guys hair being pulled and just allowed play to continue. If he'd seen that, it is a foul all day long. Whether he gives yellow or red is unknown. But, the VAR couldn't intervene for it simply being a foul. Only if they thought it was a red.
		
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In fairness if he couldn't see that he shouldn't be referring, he was literally staring right at the incident.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

BrianM said:



			In fairness if he couldn't see that he shouldn't be referring, he was literally staring right at the incident.
		
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Well, he didn't see it and he is reffing. Fans say that nearly every week. Every ref misses something fans think they should see. Yet they are still deemed fit to ref the following week.

There were nearly 20 guys right in front of him. As the corner came in, the camera was aimed at the middle of the box. So, as a fan, I had pretty much the same view. Bit further away  but arguably better as looking down at an angle. I didn't see it first time. Only when the player started complaining did I think.something might have happened, and it was clear as day on the replay.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Dominated the game against a really tough, organised low block of 9 men behind the ball. Had a few good chances before we conceded.

Thought Fabinho was very poor in the build up for their goal, Eze sold him an easy dummy, he didnt need to get in that close or try and take him out. Eze was superb all game. 

Sending off changed the game. Nunez' reaction to be being pushed was stupid, utter madness,  Andersen's was even worse.

Notable mention to Tierney, he was determined to book the goalie but it was never going to be a second before 90mins, the worst PL ref by a margin, hes that bad  i wouldnt wish him on Everton.
		
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I get you didn't like Anderson's reaction, but to say it was a worse than the head butt is a very odd thing to say.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 16, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Klopp arm waving on the touchline
Stop it,it’s just antics for the crowd 🛎
		
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I'm hoping you are going to keep this up for the whole season. 

I stopped watching the game after the Zaha goal, attack v defence games are never good to watch. What level of arm waving and gurning did Viera do? He looks one of the calmer managers on the sidelines, how do Palace expect to survive?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I get you didn't like Anderson's reaction, but to say it was a worse than the head butt is a very odd thing to say.
		
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It was pathetic. For such a big unit like him to go down like Delboy falling through the bar and then to get back up with no medical attention i  thought it was embarrassing bordering on cheating.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



*I'm hoping you are going to keep this up for the whole season.*

I stopped watching the game after the Zaha goal, attack v defence games are never good to watch. What level of arm waving and gurning did Viera do? He looks one of the calmer managers on the sidelines, how do Palace expect to survive?
		
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I find it hilarious that only a few days ago PJ wanted to see ten Haag do exactly the same thing on the touchline 🤦🏼‍♂️😁😁


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## RichA (Aug 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I can’t belive hair pulling isn’t a foul!
If you pull someone back be it shirt ,shorts, foot ,hand ,arm or Hair it’s a foul.
		
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It is a foul, but not specified as being any worse than pulling a shirt or an arm. He was pulling the other guys shirt at the same time that his hair was pulled so it's a 50/50 that he happens to have lost.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It was pathetic. For such a big unit like him to go down like Delboy falling through the bar and then to get back up with no medical attention i  thought it was embarrassing bordering on cheating.
		
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Didn’t see the match but watching the clip it’s one of the best slapstick pratfalls I’ve ever seen. Buster Keaton couldn’t have dived any better. 😂


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## RichA (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It was pathetic. For such a big unit like him to go down like Delboy falling through the bar and then to get back up with no medical attention i  thought it was embarrassing bordering on cheating.
		
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I think they should have either both got yellows or reds. 
It looked like Anderson tried to provoke a reaction then staged his own massive overreaction.


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## BrianM (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, he didn't see it and he is reffing. Fans say that nearly every week. Every ref misses something fans think they should see. Yet they are still deemed fit to ref the following week.

There were nearly 20 guys right in front of him. As the corner came in, the camera was aimed at the middle of the box. So, as a fan, I had pretty much the same view. Bit further away  but arguably better as looking down at an angle. I didn't see it first time. Only when the player started complaining did I think.something might have happened, and it was clear as day on the replay.
		
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If he can't see that, then something is wrong, it's right on his eyeline, it's a shocker!!


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It was pathetic. For such a big unit like him to go down like Delboy falling through the bar and then to get back up with no medical attention i  thought it was embarrassing bordering on cheating.
		
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We already know virtually all footballers do the same thing. Nothing new. 

What was even more absurd, for those that watched the analysis, that in the seconds before this happened, Nunez had shouted over to ref and was speaking to him, the ref being about 5 yards away. Then, with the referee interacting with him, he headbutted Anderson.

I'm predicting Nunez might end up being one of the dumbest footballers we have ever seen in the PL. Not being happy with how Anderson reacted is fair enough, but it shouldn't come as a suprise. The biggest joke was Nunez, who was a complete idiot.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I find it hilarious that only a few days ago PJ wanted to see ten Haag do exactly the same thing on the touchline 🤦🏼‍♂️😁😁
		
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Whoooosh
Right over your head Stu
Don’t worry he’ll be gone soon


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## Swingalot (Aug 16, 2022)

I love this thread sometimes, some classic views.
Particularly like Zaha being called out for his bad finishing......after playing in a game where he finished a chance brilliantly , when in the same game Mo Salah misses a hatfull of chances along with his Liverpool team mates. You couldn't make it up.

Ps. Stu, yep Anderson over reacted, but your man has a lot to learn. He tried to nut him in the game earlier and missed. Maybe he needs to practise his heading...


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



*We already know virtually all footballers do the same thing. Nothing new.*

What was even more absurd, for those that watched the analysis, that in the seconds before this happened, Nunez had shouted over to ref and was speaking to him, the ref being about 5 yards away. Then, with the referee interacting with him, he headbutted Anderson.

I'm predicting Nunez might end up being one of the dumbest footballers we have ever seen in the PL. Not being happy with how Anderson reacted is fair enough, but it shouldn't come as a suprise. The biggest joke was Nunez, who was a complete idiot.
		
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That doesn't stop it from being worse. 

Supposing Andersen stands firm from Nunez' reaction, it ends up with a yellow card each. 

Nunez succumbed to the dark arts. He's going to face a lot more of that and he needs to be ready for it and learn quick.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			I love this thread sometimes, some classic views.
Particularly like Zaha being called out for his bad finishing......after playing in a game where he finished a chance brilliantly , when in the same game Mo Salah misses a hatfull of chances along with his Liverpool team mates. You couldn't make it up.

*Ps. Stu, yep Anderson over reacted, but your man has a lot to learn. He tried to nut him in the game earlier and missed. Maybe he needs to practise his heading.*..
		
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I agree and im sure he will. He was sold one by Andersen and his utter stupidity fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Andersen's reaction was worse imo.


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## chrisd (Aug 16, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			I love this thread sometimes, some classic views.
Particularly like Zaha being called out for his bad finishing......after playing in a game where he finished a chance brilliantly , when in the same game Mo Salah misses a hatfull of chances along with his Liverpool team mates. You couldn't make it up.

Ps. Stu, yep Anderson over reacted, but your man has a lot to learn. He tried to nut him in the game earlier and missed. Maybe he needs to practise his heading...
		
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Let's face it, cos it Liverpool it's our players fault, and he should have been sent off, for hitting the opponents forehead with his chin!  (Twice)


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Whoooosh
Right over your head Stu
Don’t worry he’ll be gone soon
		
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Keep up Tone, i gave you a like for your comment last night😉

I'm not worried, whether he stays or goes we both know the heirachy will still make a mess of the next appointment😁😁


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Let's face it, cos it Liverpool it's our players fault, and he should have been sent off, for hitting the opponents forehead with his chin!  (Twice)
		
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Oh here we go, i knew it wouldnt be long until this tripe got pedalled out, i'm just surprised its from you.

 Nobody has suggested anything of the sort. As far as i can see, nobody has tried to defend Nunez.

That doesnt excuse Andersen's reaction.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			That doesn't stop it from being worse. 

Supposing Andersen stands firm from Nunez' reaction, it ends up with a yellow card each. 

Nunez succumbed to the dark arts. He's going to face a lot more of that and he needs to be ready for it and learn quick.
		
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What do you mean a yellow card each? That indicates that YOU think it should only he a yellow card, and Anderson got him sent off?

Anderson stays on his feet or not, it it a red card all day long. It wasn't forehead to forehead. Nunez headbutted him. Clearly. And, unlike pulling hair, headbutting is an automatic red.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I find it hilarious that only a few days ago PJ wanted to see ten Haag do exactly the same thing on the touchline 🤦🏼‍♂️😁😁
		
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I think he wants Ten Haag to do the same. 

As someone following a club with a long history of histrionic, failure, managers such as Paisley, Fagin, Dalglish, I am sure you agree that Conte, Simeone etc style antics on the sidelines are the way forwards.


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## chrisd (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Sending off changed the game. Nunez' reaction to be being pushed was stupid, utter madness,  Andersen's was even worse.
		
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Come on Stu. Our players reaction to a head butt was worse than the offence itself! Not a single player in the PL who wouldn't have gone down after it, and it was Nunez's 2nd attempt to assault Anderssen. Nunez got himself sent off, not Anderssen!


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## chrisd (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Oh here we go, i knew it wouldnt be long until this tripe got pedalled out, i'm just surprised its from you.

Nobody has suggested anything of the sort. As far as i can see, nobody has tried to defend Nunez.

That doesnt excuse Andersen's reaction.
		
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Come on Stu, always use an old joke if I can.

No one has tried to blame anyone but Nunez, but a lot are trying to lay some blame on the victim. I've seen Liverpool enough times live over the years to know that your lot would have reacted exactly in the same fashion, well maybe not Souness or Tommy Smith !


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Come on Stu. Our players reaction to a head butt was worse than the offence itself! Not a single player in the PL who wouldn't have gone down after it, and it was Nunez's 2nd attempt to assault Anderssen. Nunez got himself sent off, not Anderssen!
		
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Yeah, it can be both. 

Your post of "because its Liverpool" is utter tripe.

They'd been at it from the 1st minute, it was blatantly obvious Andersen had wound Nunez up throughout the game, loads of pushing/pulling off the ball etc.

I've got no issue with that at all. It's a part of the game and its upto the player and  ref to deal with it.  Nunez succumbed to Andersen's dark arts.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Come on Stu, always use an old joke if I can.

No one has tried to blame anyone but Nunez, but a lot are trying to lay some blame on the victim. *I've seen Liverpool enough times live over the years to know that your lot would have reacted exactly in the same fashion,* well maybe not Souness or Tommy Smith !
		
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Yes and i would absolutely call them out for it.

That doesnt justify Andersen's or anyone else's for that matter, reaction.


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## chrisd (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Your post of "because its Liverpool" is utter tripe.
		
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Stu.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Keep up Tone, i gave you a like for your comment last night😉

I'm not worried, whether he stays or goes we both know the heirachy will still make a mess of the next appointment😁😁
		
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I hope not
Someone surely at the club has some idea of what they are doing.


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## RichA (Aug 16, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Come on Stu. Our players reaction to a head butt was worse than the offence itself! Not a single player in the PL who wouldn't have gone down after it, and it was Nunez's 2nd attempt to assault Anderssen. Nunez got himself sent off, not Anderssen!
		
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I'm non-partisan when it comes to these 2 teams, but I think Anderson's behaviour was worse from a human perspective, if probably not from an FA disciplinary one. It was about on a par with calling someone out for a straightener in the car park then going down after the first punch and calling the police. There were no innocent parties.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What do you mean a yellow card each? That indicates that YOU think it should only he a yellow card, and Anderson got him sent off?

Anderson stays on his feet or not, it it a red card all day long. It wasn't forehead to forehead. Nunez headbutted him. Clearly. And, unlike pulling hair, headbutting is an automatic red.
		
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In my book it was nothing more than a talking too😉

They were at it from the 1st minute and Nunez stupidly fell for Andersens antics. That doesnt defend Nunez at all,  by the same token it shouldnt mean Andersen's reaction should be ignored either. 

If and its a hypothetical one,  Andersen stands firm and not falls the way he did i dont think any other ref gives a red. 

You dont think Andersen's reaction doesnt have a massive impact on the decision from the ref?


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## pokerjoke (Aug 16, 2022)

RichA said:



			I'm non-partisan when it comes to these 2 teams, but I think Anderson's behaviour was worse from a human perspective, if probably not from an FA disciplinary one. It was about on a par with calling someone out for a straightener in the car park then going down after the first punch and calling the police. There were no innocent parties.
		
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Can’t agree
A headbutt has no place on any football pitch .
As Chrisd already mentioned every player in the premiership would have went down,wether or not from force or knowing it’s a red.
Ok he’s big and strong but so what.
Nunez needs to learn fast and I’m sure he will.
Title for Liverpool has gone pure and simple.
Overall they are just too weak in certain areas.
Midfield and RB for me.
Saha nearly had a 2nd as TAA was like a statue.
No chance of getting in the England squad ahead of James.
Too lightweight in midfield.
And Salah well,where’s the real Salah gone?


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			In my book it was nothing more than a talking too😉

They were at it from the 1st minute and Nunez stupidly fell for Andersens antics. That doesnt defend Nunez at all,  by the same token it shouldnt mean Andersen's reaction should be ignored either.

If and its a hypothetical one,  Andersen stands firm and not falls the way he did i dont think any other ref gives a red.

You dont think Andersen's reaction doesnt have a massive impact on the decision from the ref?
		
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Anderson's reaction MAY have swayed the immediate red from the onfield ref. But, I doubt it. Because, in the post match analysis, before Anderson had even started falling to ground, the ref already had blown his whistle and was going to his pocket. However, even if that had not been the case, the VAR would have definitely told him to review the incident. It was a headbutt. The rules of football are pretty clear on that, they do not use your book of rules. Of course, if Ronaldo had done exactly the same thing to VVD next week, I am positive that your book would have made it clear Ronaldo should be sent off with a long ban, regardless if VVD fell over or not.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t agree
A headbutt has no place on any football pitch .
As Chrisd already mentioned every player in the premiership would have went down,wether or not from force or knowing it’s a red.
Ok he’s big and strong but so what.
Nunez needs to learn fast and I’m sure he will.
Title for Liverpool has gone pure and simple.
Overall they are just too weak in certain areas.
Midfield and RB for me.
Saha nearly had a 2nd as TAA was like a statue.
No chance of getting in the England squad ahead of James.
Too lightweight in midfield.
*And Salah well,where’s the real Salah gone?*

Click to expand...

I think an imposter came back after the African Cup of Nations. Did well against United since then I guess, but I mean, so does everyone.

I'm assuming you meant Zaha, although Saha would have fancied his chances in his day


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## fundy (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			That doesn't stop it from being worse.

Supposing Andersen stands firm from Nunez' reaction, it ends up with a yellow card each.

Nunez succumbed to the dark arts. He's going to face a lot more of that and he needs to be ready for it and learn quick.
		
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however Andersen reacts thats a red card from Nunez mate, utterly brainless especially having already tried and missed, too much deflection from the Liverpool fans trying to make Nunez the victim for me


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## BiMGuy (Aug 16, 2022)

Are we going to criticise Nunez falling over easily too? Or the fact he had a swing and a miss and tried and failed to headbutt Anderson before the sending off incident. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559363359442489344


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## Tashyboy (Aug 16, 2022)

Ave said this before and I will say it again. When Pep went to City, we battered teams with score lines I only ever dreamed of. The following season teams set up very defensively. A draw or even nicking a win was better than a 5-0 Defeat. 
Liverpool are now at that stage. A lot of teams are going to sit back and try not to give Liverpool space like last night. It may be a season for Liverpool fans to be patient.
I mentioned the other day about footballers and there “ poohousery” last night was another example. What surprises me is with VAR Everything is seen. Are footballers still that thick.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Anderson's reaction MAY have swayed the immediate red from the onfield ref. But, I doubt it. Because, in the post match analysis, before Anderson had even started falling to ground, the ref already had blown his whistle and was going to his pocket. However, even if that had not been the case, the VAR would have definitely told him to review the incident. It was a headbutt. The rules of football are pretty clear on that, they do not use your book of rules. Of course, if Ronaldo had done exactly the same thing to VVD next week, I am positive that your book would have made it clear Ronaldo should be sent off with a long ban, regardless if VVD fell over or not.
		
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Look, i'm not going to change my mind on Andersens pathetic reaction. If you want to defend it with "We already know virtually all footballers do the same thing. Nothing new." then thats entirely upto you. I will call it as i see it.

I have previously and will in future absolutely call out any Liverpool player who reacts exactly the same as Andersen did.


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## fundy (Aug 16, 2022)

Going to be plenty of sides trying to emulate Andersens performance over the season


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559362456454979584


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Nunez deserved a red no argument.
I remember Mitrovic at the weekend pushing a guy around with his head but the lad stayed on his feet. Nothing.
It’s the inconsistency from refs.
Anderson’s was simulation nothing else, if he can be knocked over with such little contact.


Think Nunez is in for a hard season from defenders trying this tactic.


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## BiMGuy (Aug 16, 2022)

And it’s not ‘dark arts’ it’s just good defending.

Now everyone know how easy it is to wind the lad up, he’ll be getting it every game.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			however Andersen reacts thats a red card from Nunez mate, utterly brainless especially having already tried and missed, too much deflection from the *Liverpool fans trying to make Nunez the victim for me*

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Show me where i've done so?

There's certainly no deflection from me, Nunez got what he deserved. 

Calling out Andersens reaction isnt deflection or looking to defend, its stating the bloody obvious.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Nunez deserved a red no argument.
I remember Mitrovic at the weekend pushing a guy around with his head but the lad stayed on his feet. Nothing.
It’s the inconsistency from refs.
Anderson’s was simulation nothing else, if he can be knocked over with such little contact.


Think Nunez is in for a hard season from defenders trying this tactic.
		
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Surely coming from Portugal he must be used to defenders niggling away? Defenders over here are amateurs in comparison.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Look, i'm not going to change my mind on Andersens pathetic reaction. If you want to defend it with "We already know virtually all footballers do the same thing. Nothing new." then thats entirely upto you. I will call it as i see it.

I have previously and will in future absolutely call out any Liverpool player who reacts exactly the same as Andersen did.
		
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I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying. At no point was a defending Anderson's reaction or hailing him a hero. I was simply stating a fact. Nearly all players do it, so it shouldn't come as a suprise.

The main point of my argument was that regardless of Anderson, it was a red card. You seem to think not, bizarrely. You seem to think a red was given only because of Andersons reaction. I find it strange that fans come on here and criticise referees for various actions they don't agree with. Use statements like they are not fit to be a referee. Then, on the other hand, some fans clearly are not aware of the basic rules of football, and that a headbutt is a red card.

I've heard numerous reactions on this incident since it happened. To be honest, there hasn't been much reaction on Anderson's reaction. But, you are the only one that thinks it would only be a yellow if it wasn't for that reaction. Every single other person that has discussed it (that I have heard), including from the Liverpool corner, are in no doubt it was a red card.

The clip BiMGuy posted was interesting. It looks like Anderson absolutely bossed Nunez last night. I bet Vieira was delighted with him.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Surely coming from Portugal he must be used to defenders niggling away? Defenders over here are amateurs in comparison.
		
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Obviously not.
He’s going to have to learn quick.
What Anderson did was no worse than any other CB will do all season ,it’s part of the game.


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## fundy (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Show me where i've done so?

There's certainly no deflection from me, Nunez got what he deserved.

Calling out Andersens reaction isnt deflection or looking to defend, its stating the bloody obvious.
		
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Wasnt aimed just at you, but claiming the reaction is worse than the headbutt falls into deflection for me


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## Beezerk (Aug 16, 2022)

I can’t believe someone head butting another player is now being justified because another player wound him up.
Wow, a new low.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Show me where i've done so?

There's certainly no deflection from me, Nunez got what he deserved.

Calling out Andersens reaction isnt deflection or looking to defend, its stating the bloody obvious.
		
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You said 

"Andersen stands firm and not falls the way he did i dont think any other ref gives a red"

I think most people would interpret that as you saying Nunez would not have got a red if Anderson had not gone down. In other words, Nunez is the victim of Andersons reaction.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Nunez deserved a red no argument.
*I remember Mitrovic at the weekend pushing a guy around with his head but the lad stayed on his feet. Nothing.*
It’s the inconsistency from refs.
Anderson’s was simulation nothing else, if he can be knocked over with such little contact.


Think Nunez is in for a hard season from defenders trying this tactic.
		
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Yeah, but I guess that is because that didn't fit the definition of a headbutt, so was not comparable. That was one when two footballers get so close their heads end up touching, and then they start pushing into each other. Often it is hard to see which one is being the bigger prat.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2022)

Nunez - was suckered into it by Anderson doing what most CB’s do , pushing , pulling ,little niggly stuff and Nunez was getting wound up by it and he reacted 

It was more chest to chest with the slightest touch using his head and it’s a red card , there is no justification for his reaction and he will get a 3 game ban for it 

But the touch wasn’t enough to send Anderson sprawling around holding his face as if it was a full blown head butt but we have seen it happen all over the weekend 

Anderson didn’t need to go down but it would have been a red card anyway for the lashing out 

Not sure where Liverpool fans have made Nunez the victim because everyone has said he deserved the red card.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I can’t believe someone head butting another player is now being justified because another player wound him up.
Wow, a new low.
		
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Where has some said that is was “justified”


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## Beezerk (Aug 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where has some said that is was “justified”
		
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Not directly said it obviously but it’s quite clear some people think Nunez was the victim in this.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, but I guess that is because that didn't fit the definition of a headbutt, so was not comparable. That was one when two footballers get so close their heads end up touching, and then they start pushing into each other. Often it is hard to see which one is being the bigger prat.
		
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Mitrovic hacked him down from behind ,no attempt for the ball.
When the lad got up he pushed him around with his head jammed in his face.
It’s quite obvious who the prat was.


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## Beezerk (Aug 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But the touch wasn’t enough to send Anderson sprawling around holding his face as if it was a full blown head butt but we have seen it happen all over the weekend
		
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I don’t agree with this as well.
Getting nutted right on the button even with minimal force is enough to send some people to sleep. Yes it looks an overreaction from the player at first glance but to say it’s not enough to send him down is just wild speculation.


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## RichA (Aug 16, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t agree
A headbutt has no place on any football pitch .
As Chrisd already mentioned *every player in the premiership would have went down,wether or not from force* or knowing it’s a red.
Ok he’s big and strong but so what.
Nunez needs to learn fast and I’m sure he will.
Title for Liverpool has gone pure and simple.
Overall they are just too weak in certain areas.
Midfield and RB for me.
Saha nearly had a 2nd as TAA was like a statue.
No chance of getting in the England squad ahead of James.
Too lightweight in midfield.
And Salah well,where’s the real Salah gone?
		
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This is the bit that bothers me most. Even with my own team back in the Premier League for the first time in 23 years, I'm struggling to engage. 
Commentators, pundits and fans defending a professional sportsman's "right to go down" following contact that would illicit nothing more than a passive aggressive tut if it happened in a supermarket aisle.
If Nunez had pirouetted to the ground holding his face after Anderson grabbed his shoulder from behind, then Palace might've been down to 10 players.
They're mostly worse than children and I can see why the officials have started letting stuff go and letting VAR review it afterwards.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Not directly said it obviously but it’s quite clear some people think Nunez was the victim in this.
		
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I don’t think I have seen that ? 




Beezerk said:



			I don’t agree with this as well.
Getting nutted right on the button even with minimal force is enough to send some people to sleep. Yes it looks an overreaction from the player at first glance but to say it’s not enough to send him down is just wild speculation.
		
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He was rolling around the floor as if he had been shot


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## Beezerk (Aug 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He was rolling around the floor as if he had been shot
		
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I’ve never been head butted so I’m not sure how I’d react, I don’t think I would just shrug it off though as is being suggested.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

RichA said:



			This is the bit that bothers me most. Even with my own team back in the Premier League for the first time in 23 years, I'm struggling to engage.
Commentators, pundits and fans defending a professional sportsman's "right to go down" following contact that would illicit nothing more than a passive aggressive tut if it happened in a supermarket aisle.
If Nunez had pirouetted to the ground holding his face after Anderson grabbed his shoulder from behind, then Palace might've been down to 10 players.
They're mostly worse than children and I can see why the officials have started letting stuff go and letting VAR review it afterwards.
		
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Problem doing that though is what happened with the hair pulling incident.
Ref does nothing.
VAR does nothing.
Spurs score from a corner they should not have had.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I’ve never been head butted so I’m not sure how I’d react, I don’t think I would just shrug it off though as is being suggested.
		
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It’s a well known fact if you are genuinely hurt you keep still so you don’t make your injury worse.
If you are rolling around on the ground it might sting a bit but your not badly hurt.
Other medical opinions are avaliable


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Are we going to criticise Nunez falling over easily too? Or the fact he had a swing and a miss and tried and failed to headbutt Anderson before the sending off incident.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559363359442489344

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This video is superb! It gives a real insight that Nunez needs to learn a lesson from, and quickly. Premier League defenders will shove you around and get under your skin. He's going to have to deal with it and not react like that. Anderson will be loving that video and probably playing it on repeat in the next Palace training session.   Good bit of old-school winding up the striker there, paid off perfectly.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Getting nutted right on the button even with minimal force is enough to send some people to sleep.
		
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True but in this case he is fully conscious throughout, talking, using his right hand to pat his mouth+nose and his left hand to break his fall. He is fully aware of what he is doing.

It really is hilarious.

Red card for Nunez and Yellow for Anderson IMO.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying. At no point was a defending Anderson's reaction or hailing him a hero. I was simply stating a fact. Nearly all players do it, so it shouldn't come as a suprise.

The main point of my argument was that regardless of Anderson, it was a red card. You seem to think not, bizarrely. You seem to think a red was given only because of Andersons reaction. I find it strange that fans come on here and criticise referees for various actions they don't agree with. Use statements like they are not fit to be a referee. Then, on the other hand, some fans clearly are not aware of the basic rules of football, and that a headbutt is a red card.

I've heard numerous reactions on this incident since it happened. To be honest, there hasn't been much reaction on Anderson's reaction. But, you are the only one that thinks it would only be a yellow if it wasn't for that reaction. Every single other person that has discussed it (that I have heard), including from the Liverpool corner, are in no doubt it was a red card.

The clip BiMGuy posted was interesting. It looks like Anderson absolutely bossed Nunez last night. I bet Vieira was delighted with him.
		
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I'm not goin round in circles with you.

I wasn't surprised by Andersen's reaction, that doesnt make it acceptable or above criticism. You took umbridge because in my opinion the fall was worse than the headbutt.

That doesnt mean Nunez didnt deserve to be sent off.

My 1st post when i got home from the game was " Nunez' reaction to be being pushed was stupid, utter madness. Andersen's was even worse"

That isnt defending Nunez, likewise i'm not blaming Andersen. 

It can, absolutely, be both though.

I seen it as it happened and i said to my lad "hes gone here". No qualms its the rules. 

I said "supposing Andersen stood firm", thats a hypothetical point. Completely different from saying it shouldn't have been a red card. 

To be clear my view is, Nunez deserved to be sent off. 

Andersen's reaction was embarrassing.


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## RichA (Aug 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Problem doing that though is what happened with the hair pulling incident.
Ref does nothing.
VAR does nothing.
Spurs score from a corner they should not have had.
		
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It's not a specific offence, therefore no worse than off the ball shirt-pulling (which the long haired dude was doing to the Spurs player). The outcome wasn't affected as the ball didn't reach them and it wasn't violent conduct.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			Wasnt aimed just at you, but claiming the reaction is worse than the headbutt falls into deflection for me
		
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I expect better from chief theatrics judge😉


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I’ve never been head butted so I’m not sure how I’d react, I don’t think I would just shrug it off though as is being suggested.
		
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That’s not a “ headbutt”
It’s a very mild coming together the chest of both players take most of the impact.!
I you have been the victim of a proper headbutt you won’t just be getting up and playing on.

Not excusing the intent but HEADBUTT not even close.


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## Beezerk (Aug 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s not a “ headbutt”
It’s a very mild coming together the chest of both players take most of the impact.!
I you have been the victim of a proper headbutt you won’t just be getting up and playing on.

Not excusing the intent but HEADBUTT not even close.
		
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So it’s not even a headbutt now 👀


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			True but in this case he is fully conscious throughout, talking, using his right hand to pat his mouth+nose and his left hand to break his fall. He is fully aware of what he is doing.

It really is hilarious.

Red card for Nunez and Yellow for Anderson IMO.
		
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That sums it up - It was a red card for Nunez , even if Anderson didn’t go down then it would have been a yellow and upgraded to a red on VAR


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

RichA said:



			It's not a specific offence, therefore no worse than off the ball shirt-pulling (which the long haired dude was doing to the Spurs player). The outcome wasn't affected as the ball didn't reach them and it wasn't violent conduct.
		
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Shirt pulling is an offence no matter where it is.
Some refs think it isn’t.
I disagree that is violent conduct imo.
We can’t all agree all the time.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not goin round in circles with you.

I wasn't surprised by Andersen's reaction, that doesnt make it acceptable or above criticism. You took umbridge because in my opinion the fall was worse than the headbutt.

That doesnt mean Nunez didnt deserve to be sent off.

My 1st post when i got home from the game was " Nunez' reaction to be being pushed was stupid, utter madness. Andersen's was even worse"

That isnt defending Nunez, likewise i'm not blaming Andersen.

It can, absolutely, be both though.

I seen it as it happened and i said to my lad "hes gone here". No qualms its the rules.

I said "supposing Andersen stood firm", thats a hypothetical point. Completely different from saying it shouldn't have been a red card.

To be clear my view is, Nunez deserved to be sent off.

Andersen's reaction was embarrassing.
		
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If you thought it was definite red card regardless, then fair enough. I agree with you. However, when you said "Andersen stands firm and not falls the way he did *i dont think any other ref gives a red*" then I interpreted that as you saying it was nothing more than a yellow card without Anderson's reaction. Hopefully you can forgive me for that interpretation, as that is pretty much directly what you said. Unless you meant that virtually no ref would give a red, but you think they'd be mistaken in not giving it?

Before that comment, I simply said I was surprised you seemed to be more outraged by a player going down probably too easily rather than a player headbutting another player. Anderson has played a blinder last night. The entire game, not just that incident. He has bullied Nunez, and Nunez ultimately couldn't take it. It'll be interesting how he learns from it. There is no doubt that when he returns, the opposition defenders will be trying even harder to bully him. So he will have to start getting used to it, quickly.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			So it’s not even a headbutt now 👀
		
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The intention was there so yes any contact makes it a headbutt .
But I was trying to put it into context for you as you said “ you had never had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of a butt”
I have when I played and you don’t just get up and play on belive me!
Most stuff in the PL is handbags and simulation.
Nunez deserved red, no argument.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s not a “ headbutt”
It’s a very mild coming together the chest of both players take most of the impact.!
I you have been the victim of a proper headbutt you won’t just be getting up and playing on.

Not excusing the intent but HEADBUTT not even close.
		
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Wow? Not a headbutt!? I could have sworn the crown of Nunez's head was thrust into Anderson's face. Again, you are the only one of many that thinks this is NOT a headbutt that I have heard from. It pretty much fits the dictionary definition of headbutt. I didn't realise it didn't count if the chests also made contact, or it wasn't strong enough to cause bleeding, pain or a broken skull / jaw.


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## theoneandonly (Aug 16, 2022)

Just saw the headbutt. Anyone who thinks it was just a coming together or the palace made a meal of it is talking 💩 and off their rocker!!


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The intention was there so yes any contact makes it a headbutt .
But I was trying to put it into context for you as you said “ *you had never had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of a butt*”
I have when I played and you don’t just get up and play on belive me!
Most stuff in the PL is handbags and simulation.
Nunez deserved red, no argument.
		
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That all depends on the success of the headbutt though. Someone could throw the most violent headbutt, but if you manage to move your head back at the right time, you can pretty much avoid most of the damage and pain. Same with a punch. On the other hand, someone could throw a much less violent headbutt, and it could knock you out stone cold if it hits you in the right spot and your movement does not deflect much of the impact. Same with a punch.

I mean, someone could throw the most violent headbutt ever known to man, but if the other person somehow manages to get out of the way of it, there will be zero pain and zero damage. That doesn't make it not a headbutt. It just means they missed


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Wow? Not a headbutt!? I could have sworn the crown of Nunez's head was thrust into Anderson's face. Again, you are the only one of many that thinks this is NOT a headbutt that I have heard from. It pretty much fits the dictionary definition of headbutt. I didn't realise it didn't count if the chests also made contact, or it wasn't strong enough to cause bleeding, pain or a broken skull / jaw.
		
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See post above.
I was trying to explain a proper headbutt to Beezerk.
He made contact yes silly boy.
In football that’s a headbutt you are correct.
But most headbutts put you in A&E


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## Beezerk (Aug 16, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Just saw the headbutt. Anyone who thinks it was just a coming together or the palace made a meal of it is talking 💩 and off their rocker!!
		
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Just a chest to chest coming together 😬


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## pokerjoke (Aug 16, 2022)

Let’s be honest most footballers now are pussies.
Everyone trying to get fellow professionals sent off for the slightest touch.
We’ve been here b4 many times,it’s pathetic and embarrassing.
Unfortunately players don’t get embarrassed about it and it’s why the game has become unbearable at times.
It’s also very hard for refs to referee,and when var turns a blind eye to these happenings it’s even more unbearable.
Football has been like it-for years now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2022)

What this does show is that people either can’t read or read something that isn’t there


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That all depends on the success of the headbutt though. Someone could throw the most violent headbutt, but if you manage to move your head back at the right time, you can pretty much avoid most of the damage and pain. Same with a punch. On the other hand, someone could throw a much less violent headbutt, and it could knock you out stone cold if it hits you in the right spot and your movement does not deflect much of the impact. Same with a punch.

I mean, someone could throw the most violent headbutt ever known to man, but if the other person somehow manages to get out of the way of it, there will be zero pain and zero damage. That doesn't make it not a headbutt. It just means they missed 

Click to expand...

Yes I may of worded it wrong but in most headbutts your chests don’t clash first.
I am not defending Nunez here.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What this does show is that people either can’t read or read something that isn’t there
		
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In the sense of “ that’s not a headbutt, this is a headbutt” Harry Enfield style!
Obviously not much sense of humour here


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Just a chest to chest coming together 😬
View attachment 43901

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Bang out of order.
Anderson kissing him on the forehead like that.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



*Let’s be honest most footballers now are pussies.*
Everyone trying to get fellow professionals sent off for the slightest touch.
We’ve been here b4 many times,it’s pathetic and embarrassing.
Unfortunately players don’t get embarrassed about it and it’s why the game has become unbearable at times.
It’s also very hard for refs to referee,and when var turns a blind eye to these happenings it’s even more unbearable.
Football has been like it-for years now.
		
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Is your real name Graeme Souness


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If you thought it was definite red card regardless, then fair enough. I agree with you. *However, when you said "Andersen stands firm* and not falls the way he did *i dont think any other ref gives a red*" then I interpreted that as you saying it was nothing more than a yellow card without Anderson's reaction. Hopefully you can forgive me for that interpretation, as that is pretty much directly what you said. Unless you meant that virtually no ref would give a red, but you think they'd be mistaken in not giving it?

Before that comment, I simply said I was surprised you seemed to be more outraged by a player going down probably too easily rather than a player headbutting another player. Anderson has played a blinder last night. The entire game, not just that incident. He has bullied Nunez, and Nunez ultimately couldn't take it. It'll be interesting how he learns from it. There is no doubt that when he returns, the opposition defenders will be trying even harder to bully him. So he will have to start getting used to it, quickly.
		
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You've ignored/removed the most important word before it in that sentence "supposing" .

When you read it as i've written it, it most definitely reads differently than how you've written it.

It was a hypothetical point. 

Bearing in mind both Nunez and Andersen are big units, Andersen has bullied Nunez and Nunez couldnt take it (in your words)  with that in mind i would expect Andersen to be a lot stronger giving what hes done for the previous 54 minutes.

It seems Andersen's reaction is acceptable and isn't worth discussing without being accused of defending/making Nunez the victim🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You've ignored/removed the most important word before it in that sentence "supposing" .

When you read it as i've written it, it most definitely reads differently than how you've written it.

It was a hypothetical point.

Bearing in mind both Nunez and Andersen are big units, Andersen has bullied Nunez and Nunez couldnt take it (in your words)  with that in mind i would expect Andersen to be a lot stronger giving what hes done for the previous 54 minutes.

It seems Andersen's reaction is acceptable and isn't worth discussing without being accused of defending/making Nunez the victim🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
		
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Your entire post, copied word for word, was:

"In my book it was nothing more than a talking too😉

They were at it from the 1st minute and Nunez stupidly fell for Andersens antics. That doesnt defend Nunez at all, by the same token it shouldnt mean Andersen's reaction should be ignored either.

If and its a hypothetical one, Andersen stands firm and not falls the way he did i dont think any other ref gives a red.

You dont think Andersen's reaction doesnt have a massive impact on the decision from the ref? "

I must be blind as a bat, but I really have no idea what you are referring to now. Huge communication break down, or is this an elaborate way of digging yourself out of a hole!? Where does your post say "supposing"? When I have quoted you, I have ensured each time I copied and pasted, rather than paraphrase what you said.


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## RichA (Aug 16, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



*Shirt pulling is an offence no matter where it is.*
Some refs think it isn’t.
I disagree that is violent conduct imo.
We can’t all agree all the time.

Click to expand...

I know. I was equating hair-pulling to it and pointing out that, while an offence, if it happens between 2 players whose antics didn't affect the _immediate_ build up to a goal then VAR had no reason within the laws to draw attention to it.
I'm already struggling to enjoy premier league football. If hair-pulling becomes a specific offence then I may have to stop watching altogether. A better law would be a requirement for players with long hair to tie it in a bun or wear a hair net, like if they worked in a factory or a kitchen.
For what it's worth, I agree with everything you've said about head-butts. Footballers pressing their heads towards each other aren't fighting - they're behaving like beta-male dogs that are desperate to avoid a fight while pretending they're top dog.
I'm not going down the Souness route - rather I wish they'd just play football a bit more like the women managed to over the summer.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

RichA said:



			I know. I was equating hair-pulling to it and pointing out that, while an offence, if it happens between 2 players whose antics didn't affect the _immediate_ build up to a goal then VAR had no reason within the laws to draw attention to it.
I'm already struggling to enjoy premier league football. If hair-pulling becomes a specific offence then I may have to stop watching altogether. A better law would be a requirement for players with long hair to tie it in a bun or wear a hair net, like if they worked in a factory or a kitchen.
For what it's worth, I agree with everything you've said about head-butts. Footballers pressing their heads towards each other aren't fighting - they're behaving like beta-male dogs that are desperate to avoid a fight while pretending they're top dog.
I'm not going down the Souness route - rather I wish they'd just play football a bit more like the women managed to over the summer.
		
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Yes can you imagine the stick he would get if he lined up in a hair net.
Alright Hilda ( for you who are old enough).


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

RichA said:



			I know. I was equating hair-pulling to it and pointing out that, while an offence, if it happens between 2 players whose antics didn't affect the _immediate_ build up to a goal then VAR had no reason within the laws to draw attention to it.
I'm already struggling to enjoy premier league football. If hair-pulling becomes a specific offence then I may have to stop watching altogether. A better law would be a requirement for players with long hair to tie it in a bun or *wear a hair net*, like if they worked in a factory or a kitchen.
For what it's worth, I agree with everything you've said about head-butts. Footballers pressing their heads towards each other aren't fighting - they're behaving like beta-male dogs that are desperate to avoid a fight while pretending they're top dog.
I'm not going down the Souness route - rather I wish they'd just play football a bit more like the women managed to over the summer.
		
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But would hair net pulling be an offence


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Your entire post, copied word for word, was:

"In my book it was nothing more than a talking too😉

They were at it from the 1st minute and Nunez stupidly fell for Andersens antics. That doesnt defend Nunez at all, by the same token it shouldnt mean Andersen's reaction should be ignored either.

*If and its a hypothetical one, Andersen stands firm and not falls the way he did i dont think any other ref gives a red.*

You dont think Andersen's reaction doesnt have a massive impact on the decision from the ref? "

*I must be blind as a bat, but I really have no idea what you are referring to now. Huge communication break down, or is this an elaborate way of digging yourself out of a hole!? Where does your post say "supposing"? When I have quoted you, I have ensured each time I copied and pasted, rather than paraphrase what you said*.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			That doesn't stop it from being worse.



Supposing Andersen stands firm from Nunez' reaction, it ends up with a yellow card each.



Nunez succumbed to the dark arts. He's going to face a lot more of that and he needs to be ready for it and learn quick.
		
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This is were my initial post  of "supposing Andersen stood firm" came from after you responded to me previously. 

I then reiterated my previous point that you've underlined where i quite blatantly say "if and its a hypothetical one, "

See 29678

Stuart_C said:
That doesn't stop it from being worse.

Supposing Andersen stands firm from Nunez' reaction, it ends up with a yellow card each.

Nunez succumbed to the dark arts. He's going to face a lot more of that and he needs to be ready for it and learn quick.
What do you mean a yellow card each? That indicates that YOU think it should only he a yellow card, and Anderson got him sent off?

Swango said:

Anderson stays on his feet or not, it it a red card all day long. It wasn't forehead to forehead. Nunez headbutted him. Clearly. And, unlike pulling hair, headbutting is an automatic red.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			But would hair net pulling be an offence 

Click to expand...

Can you imagine the Lionesses all coming out in hairnets.
It would be like Corrie vs last of the summer wine.


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## chrisd (Aug 16, 2022)

It's funny but I've just watched it  again on YouTube and Nunez's forehead makes direct contact with Andersens jaw/mouth deliberately,  everyone I thought agreed with that, nothing Andersen did after the head butt made any difference. Clearly the ref saw it and didn't consult VAR, he gave a straight  red. Andersen went down and that had no bearing on the refs decision.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			This is were my initial post  of "supposing Andersen stood firm" came from after you responded to me previously.

I then reiterated my previous point that you've underlined where i quite blatantly say "if and its a hypothetical one, "

See 29678

Stuart_C said:
That doesn't stop it from being worse.

Supposing Andersen stands firm from Nunez' reaction, it ends up with a yellow card each.

Nunez succumbed to the dark arts. He's going to face a lot more of that and he needs to be ready for it and learn quick.
What do you mean a yellow card each? That indicates that YOU think it should only he a yellow card, and Anderson got him sent off?

Swango said:

Anderson stays on his feet or not, it it a red card all day long. It wasn't forehead to forehead. Nunez headbutted him. Clearly. And, unlike pulling hair, headbutting is an automatic red.
		
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Right, so you are now expecting me to stitch together multiple posts you've made, because you are unable to make yourself clear in a single post?

Either way, in both the post I quoted, and the post where you used the word "supposedly", it changes absolutely nothing in terms of how a reader is meant to interpret them. I will quote the previous post then, you say:

* "Supposing Andersen stands firm from Nunez' reaction, it ends up with a yellow card each."*

How can anyone read from that that YOU think Nunez would have had a RED card if Anderson stayed on his feet!? Both this post and the post I quoted seem to be absolutely consistent, to your credit, that you thought it would only be a yellow had the defender not gone down.

Either way, you have now made it clear. Regardless of how Anderson reacted, you are now confirming that you thought Nunez absolutely deserved that red card. So, it appears you are actually in agreement with myself and everyone else who have spoken on this thread. So, no problem. Might have taken some time to communicate that point, but we got there in the end. No point in continuing this particular debate if we are in agreement.


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## chrisd (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Right, so you are now expecting me to stitch together multiple posts you've made, because you are unable to make yourself clear in a single post?

Either way, in both the post I quoted, and the post where you used the word "supposedly", it changes absolutely nothing in terms of how a reader is meant to interpret them. I will quote the previous post then, you say:

* "Supposing Andersen stands firm from Nunez' reaction, it ends up with a yellow card each."*

How can anyone read from that that YOU think Nunez would have had a RED card if Anderson stayed on his feet!? Both this post and the post I quoted seem to be absolutely consistent, to your credit, that you thought it would only be a yellow had the defender not gone down.

Either way, you have now made it clear. Regardless of how Anderson reacted, you are now confirming that you thought Nunez absolutely deserved that red card. So, it appears you are actually in agreement with myself and everyone else who have spoken on this thread. So, no problem. Might have taken some time to communicate that point, but we got there in the end. No point in continuing this particular debate if we are in agreement.
		
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What I dont get is the idea Nunez commits a straight red offence, and fans think that if the offended player doesn't down the referee will not observe the rule, and give each player a yellow. Presumably for Andersen his offence citation would merit a Victoria Cross for bravery in the face of the enemy 👍


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## SteveW86 (Aug 16, 2022)

I’m just glad to have the premier league back so we get to enjoy these discussions.

Hopefully Sunderland can get back to back promotions and join in the fun next year


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I’m just glad to have the premier league back so we get to enjoy these discussions.

Hopefully Sunderland can get back to back promotions and join in the fun next year
		
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I was glad to have it back, until Man United played Brighton


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## SteveW86 (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I was glad to have it back, until Man United played Brighton
		
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Vardy is next on UTD’s wish list isn’t he?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Right, so you are now expecting me to stitch together multiple posts you've made, because you are unable to make yourself clear in a single post?

Either way, in both the post I quoted, and the post where you used the word "supposedly", it changes absolutely nothing in terms of how a reader is meant to interpret them. I will quote the previous post then, you say:

* "Supposing Andersen stands firm from Nunez' reaction, it ends up with a yellow card each."*

How can anyone read from that that YOU think Nunez would have had a RED card if Anderson stayed on his feet!? Both this post and the post I quoted seem to be absolutely consistent, to your credit, that you thought it would only be a yellow had the defender not gone down.

Either way, you have now made it clear. Regardless of how Anderson reacted, you are now confirming that you thought Nunez absolutely deserved that red card. So, it appears you are actually in agreement with myself and everyone else who have spoken on this thread. So, no problem. Might have taken some time to communicate that point, but we got there in the end. No point in continuing this particular debate if we are in agreement.
		
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You've asked me to show you where i have used the word supposed and i have🤷‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Vardy is next on UTD’s wish list isn’t he?
		
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I heard that rumour, yes.

Such a weird one for me. Clearly, it is a sign of Man Utd's disastrous transfer policy and planning, that yet again they need to consider going out to try and get a quick fix.

However, we have Ronaldo and Martial as strikers. Ronaldo doesn't want to be there and may well end up leaving. I call Martial a striker, but he is probably not much more of a striker than Rashford or Elanga, and clearly cannot be relied upon based on his history at the club.  I also cannot see United going out and buying a young hot prospect for the future with such a limited time to go. They can't seem to get any decent deals done very well.

So, if United bought Vardy, I would actually be happy enough in the short term. Could be a disaster, maybe he'd be injured all the time. But, he seems the sort of guy that has loads of energy, a strong character and will really get in the faces of opponents. I would give anything just to see a player wear the Utd shirt and have a bit of fight in them. I would even take Tyson Fury in defence. He'd be awful, but he'd have character


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

chrisd said:



			What I dont get is the idea Nunez commits a straight red offence, *and fans think that if the offended player doesn't down the referee will not observe the rule, and give each player a yellow*. Presumably for Andersen his offence citation would merit a Victoria Cross for bravery in the face of the enemy 👍
		
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Thats whats happened for the last 20yrs+ for fouls/pens virtually every game, every week and that is the standard excuse for players diving.

Shame i dont go to church, i'd have lit a candle for Andersen otherwise.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You've asked me to show you where i have used the word supposed and i have🤷‍♂️
		
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Indeed. I wasn't arguing with your response on that matter though, was I? I appreciate that you highlighted it. I was just saying that it changed nothing about the way your posts were interpreted


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## chrisd (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Thats whats happened for the last 20yrs+ for fouls/pens virtually every game, every week and that is the standard excuse for players diving.

Shame i dont go to church, i'd have lit a candle for Andersen otherwise.
		
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But we've all agreed that Andersen was butted and Nunez was right to be sent off and that we all know that Andersen wasnt nutted hard enough to fall down.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 16, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I’m just glad to have the premier league back so we get to enjoy these discussions.

Hopefully Sunderland can get back to back promotions and join in the fun next year
		
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Can we have Ellis Simms back please?

How are you dealing with the trauma of Saturday? That keeper was huge though, towered over your defenders (genuine comment, he was huge)


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Indeed. I wasn't arguing with your response on that matter though, was I? I appreciate that you highlighted it. I was just saying that it changed nothing about the way your posts were interpreted 

Click to expand...

To be honest i really don't know what you're arguing about.

With you, it's like arguing with LiverpoolPhil at times😄


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## SteveW86 (Aug 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can we have Ellis Simms back please?

How are you dealing with the trauma of Saturday? That keeper was huge though, towered over your defenders (genuine comment, he was huge)
		
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Saturday was painful, but I’m looking at the bigger picture and happy with the start we have made.


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## chrisd (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			With you, it's like arguing with LiverpoolPhil at times😄
		
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To be fair, to argue with LP you'd have to put Christmas aside


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



*To be honest i really don't know what you're arguing about.*

With you, it's like arguing with LiverpoolPhil at times😄
		
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I believe you here. It must be very difficult to understand what is going on when you say one thing, and then spend the next dozen or so posts claiming you meant the opposite


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

For the benefit of clubchamp98, I have just heard another person saying that Nunez did not headbutt Anderson. On Talksport, Didi Hamann said it was not a head butt, and felt Nunez just walked into Anderson.

OK, it did promote chuckles from the others on the show (as if he had just claimed the earth was flat). But, I have now at least heard one other person saying it wasn't a headbutt, following my claim on Post 29726 that you were the only one I had heard make that claim.


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## RichA (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			For the benefit of clubchamp98, I have just heard another person saying that Nunez did not headbutt Anderson. On Talksport, Didi Hamann said it was not a head butt, and felt Nunez just walked into Anderson.

OK, it did promote chuckles from the others on the show (as if he had just claimed the earth was flat). But, I have now at least heard one other person saying it wasn't a headbutt, following my claim on Post 29726 that you were the only one I had heard make that claim.
		
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As you're keen on accuracy, I think there have actually been 3 of us in this conversation who've said it.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

RichA said:



			As you're keen on accuracy, I think there have actually been 3 of us in this conversation who've said it.
		
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I am. But I obviously overlooked your post amongst everything else. So, technically clubchamp98 was the only one I heard make that claim, until I heard Didi. So, hopefully the accuracy in my words still stands


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## pauljames87 (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			For the benefit of clubchamp98, I have just heard another person saying that Nunez did not headbutt Anderson. On Talksport, Didi Hamann said it was not a head butt, and felt Nunez just walked into Anderson.

OK, it did promote chuckles from the others on the show (as if he had just claimed the earth was flat). But, I have now at least heard one other person saying it wasn't a headbutt, following my claim on Post 29726 that you were the only one I had heard make that claim.
		
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For me when I heard head butt I opened twitter to view the video 

I was utterly disappointed. Whilst yes still a red etc not saying that but I was expecting proper Zidane style headbutt 

Underwhelming


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## SteveW86 (Aug 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			For me when I heard head butt I opened twitter to view the video

I was utterly disappointed. Whilst yes still a red etc not saying that but I was expecting proper Zidane style headbutt

Underwhelming
		
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with all the play acting that goes on within football, the number of times something is done properly is very rare. Even Zidane heatbutted the guy in the chest.

Has anyone ever landed a proper punch or headbutt in the premier league era? I can’t think of any.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			with all the play acting that goes on within football, the number of times something is done properly is very rare. Even Zidane heatbutted the guy in the chest.

Has anyone ever landed a proper punch or headbutt in the premier league era? I can’t think of any.
		
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Not sure about the Premier League.

I remember Leonardo's elbow in the 1994 World Cup (I think). And, Ortega's headbutt on Van Der Sar, as he stood up and butt him right in the jaw.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 16, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			with all the play acting that goes on within football, the number of times something is done properly is very rare. Even Zidane heatbutted the guy in the chest.

*Has anyone ever landed a proper punch or headbutt in the premier league era?* I can’t think of any.
		
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It always makes me chuckle when a mele occurs, Sunday was a good example. Two people puff their chests out, players, back room staff run from all over, invariably making it worse. Pushing and shoving takes place, lots of posturing. No one is ever at actual risk of harm.

The best thing is for everyone to stay out of it, the two players soon realise how stupid they look and normal service resumes.


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## SteveW86 (Aug 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It always makes me chuckle when a mele occurs, Sunday was a good example. Two people puff their chests out, players, back room staff run from all over, invariably making it worse. Pushing and shoving takes place, lots of posturing. No one is ever at actual risk of harm.

The best thing is for everyone to stay out of it, the two players soon realise how stupid they look and normal service resumes.
		
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Atleast in rugby when it kicks off, it properly kicks off.


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## fundy (Aug 16, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Atleast in rugby when it kicks off, it properly kicks off.
		
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used to but very rarely these days, almost all the time its pushing shoving and goading, very rare you get the type of punch ups you did 10+ years ago


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## RRidges (Aug 16, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			with all the play acting that goes on within football, the number of times something is done properly is very rare. Even Zidane heatbutted the guy in the chest.

Has anyone ever landed a proper punch or headbutt in the premier league era? I can’t think of any.
		
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Doesn't say much for all the heading practice they supposedly do!


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I heard that rumour, yes.

Such a weird one for me. Clearly, it is a sign of Man Utd's disastrous transfer policy and planning, that yet again they need to consider going out to try and get a quick fix.

However, we have Ronaldo and Martial as strikers. Ronaldo doesn't want to be there and may well end up leaving. I call Martial a striker, but he is probably not much more of a striker than Rashford or Elanga, and clearly cannot be relied upon based on his history at the club.  I also cannot see United going out and buying a young hot prospect for the future with such a limited time to go. They can't seem to get any decent deals done very well.

So, if United bought Vardy, I would actually be happy enough in the short term. Could be a disaster, maybe he'd be injured all the time. But, he seems the sort of guy that has loads of energy, a strong character and will really get in the faces of opponents. I would give anything just to see a player wear the Utd shirt and have a bit of fight in them. I would even take Tyson Fury in defence. He'd be awful, but he'd have character 

Click to expand...

I don't think he would go. Few years ago Arsenal showed interest and he elected to stay at Leicester. Can't see any reason why he wouldn't say the same now. Unless Leicester actually want to make some money off him before he retires and push him out the door.


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			with all the play acting that goes on within football, the number of times something is done properly is very rare. Even Zidane heatbutted the guy in the chest.

Has anyone ever landed a proper punch or headbutt in the premier league era? I can’t think of any.
		
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Exactly. A headbutt has it's own meaning in football parlance. It just means putting your head on them really, from about an inch away. Not sure a punch has been thrown since the days of Dyer and Bowyer.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think he would go. Few years ago Arsenal showed interest and he elected to stay at Leicester. Can't see any reason why he wouldn't say the same now. Unless Leicester actually want to make some money off him before he retires and push him out the door.
		
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I don't see it happening either, for several reasons. Although I'm unsure what direction Leicester are going in at the moment. Lack of transfers and apparently some of their top players on the verge of leaving. Would this be the time for Vardy to cash in on a move, although he isn't doing too badly at Leicester anyway, being on £140,000 per week.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 16, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think he would go. Few years ago Arsenal showed interest and he elected to stay at Leicester. Can't see any reason why he wouldn't say the same now. Unless Leicester actually want to make some money off him before he retires and push him out the door.
		
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He needs to cover his skanks legal fees.


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't see it happening either, for several reasons. Although I'm unsure what direction Leicester are going in at the moment. Lack of transfers and apparently some of their top players on the verge of leaving. Would this be the time for Vardy to cash in on a move, although he isn't doing too badly at Leicester anyway, being on £140,000 per week.
		
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The more I think of it, it would make sense for him to pick up a signing on fee and a big two-year contract when he's about to turn 36. I just think he loves Leicester and wouldn't necessarily want to play elsewhere now.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			For me when I heard head butt I opened twitter to view the video

I was utterly disappointed. Whilst yes still a red etc not saying that but I was expecting proper Zidane style headbutt

Underwhelming
		
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And that was his 2nd attempt at head butting him 😂😂


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## fundy (Aug 16, 2022)

At least the united fans must be enjoying a day off....................


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## Tashyboy (Aug 16, 2022)

Can somebody be PM me when the headbutt story is finished so I can rejoin the thread 😉👍 Ave run out of popcorn


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## Swango1980 (Aug 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Can somebody be PM me when the headbutt story is finished so I can rejoin the thread 😉👍 Ave run out of popcorn
		
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I think we can go back to hair pulling soon.


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think we can go back to hair pulling soon.
		
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If he'd have headbutted his hair instead of his chin would that have been a foul or not?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2022)

Is there a just giving site for Anderson set up yet 😉😁


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## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is there a just giving site for Anderson set up yet 😉😁
		
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The only thing he'll be given is high fives from his manager and teammates.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 16, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			with all the play acting that goes on within football, the number of times something is done properly is very rare. Even Zidane heatbutted the guy in the chest.

Has anyone ever landed a proper punch or headbutt in the premier league era? I can’t think of any.
		
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Does Cantona’s flying kick count? I think it should.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 16, 2022)

Apparently Liverpool players will wear T-shirts in support of Nunes for their next game 😆😂


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## chrisd (Aug 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is there a just giving site for Anderson set up yet 😉😁
		
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There was.............        butt!


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			For the benefit of clubchamp98, I have just heard another person saying that Nunez did not headbutt Anderson. On Talksport, Didi Hamann said it was not a head butt, and felt Nunez just walked into Anderson.

OK, it did promote chuckles from the others on the show (as if he had just claimed the earth was flat). But, I have now at least heard one other person saying it wasn't a headbutt, following my claim on Post 29726 that you were the only one I had heard make that claim.
		
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For your benefit I clearly said in a later post it was in context of “ that’s not a headbutt this is a headbutt” one that puts you in A&E not falling like a chess piece.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			For me when I heard head butt I opened twitter to view the video

I was utterly disappointed. Whilst yes still a red etc not saying that but I was expecting proper Zidane style headbutt

Underwhelming
		
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Yes my point exactly. Thank you.
Zidanes was a proper one.
Look how the guy goes down then look how Anderson goes down.
Notice the difference.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Can somebody be PM me when the headbutt story is finished so I can rejoin the thread 😉👍 Ave run out of popcorn
		
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Go and read about Mendys trial.


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## RRidges (Aug 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is there a just giving site for Anderson set up yet 😉😁
		
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Proceeds to go to providing better acting coaches!
Certainly a red card, but a pretty pathetic way of indicating it - deserving of the Yellow on its own!
This sort of rubbish - and other simulation - is a major part of why, for me, the Women's Euros was so refreshing!


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## theoneandonly (Aug 16, 2022)

Harry kane...
Same number of goals as superstar augero in only 10 more  games .
3 less than Andy Cole in 120 fewer games.
That's some stats.
And still some think he's not world class.


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## RRidges (Aug 16, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Harry kane...
Same number of goals as superstar augero in only 10 more  games .
3 less than Andy Cole in 120 fewer games.
That's some stats.
And still some think he's not world class.
		
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While he's undoubtedly, to me, world class, stats like the above are fundamentally flawed as they aren't based on 'equal opportunity'. That could, for some make Kane's performance even more impressive . Cole, for example, was hampered for a good chunk of his ManU period as being the 2nd option to Cantona.  The combo of Kane and Son has certainly been a formidable one.
Edit: Comparison stats should separate Penalties and Field Goaals.


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## RichA (Aug 16, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Harry kane...
Same number of goals as superstar augero in only 10 more  games .
3 less than Andy Cole in 120 fewer games.
That's some stats.
And still some think he's not world class.
		
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World class penalty winner and taker.


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## theoneandonly (Aug 16, 2022)

RichA said:



			World class penalty winner and taker.
		
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28 pens Vs augueros 27


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## RichA (Aug 16, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			28 pens Vs augueros 27
		
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Have you compared their domestic champions medal hauls yet?


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## theoneandonly (Aug 16, 2022)

RichA said:



			Have you compared their domestic champions medal hauls yet?
		
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I'm not a Tottenham fan so makes no odds to me.
It doesnt stop him being a truly world class footballer.
If he stays fit he could well overtake Rooney in 2nd spot this season and then possibly shearer at some point in the future.


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## 4LEX (Aug 16, 2022)

Kane is better than Aguero for three reasons. 

He's played in a lesser side by far, is a much more complete striker and has a vastly superior strike rate in international football. Not even a debate really.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 17, 2022)

If Man Utd don’t score against Liverpool n Monday there goal of the month will be an own goal 🤔😳😂


4LEX said:



			Kane is better than Aguero for three reasons.

He's played in a lesser side by far, is a much more complete striker and has a vastly superior strike rate in international football. Not even a debate really.
		
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how many games has Kane played against packed defences. What is not a debate is Kane still has a shocking amount of trophies.


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## theoneandonly (Aug 17, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			If Man Utd don’t score against Liverpool n Monday there goal of the month will be an own goal 🤔😳😂


how many games has Kane played against packed defences. What is not a debate is Kane still has a shocking amount of trophies.
		
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What an odd post... Same league, same defences....

Scoring that many goals in a team that isn't financially doped too. Impressive


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## Tashyboy (Aug 17, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			What an odd post... Same league, same defences....
		
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The top post was jest with iffy internet in Wembley stadium, it is actually an incorrect post on FB on a Utd and Liverpool banter group as Utd have another game after Liverpool.

The second post is in response to Alex saying there is no debate. Both are very good strikers that played in different teams.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 17, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			with all the play acting that goes on within football, the number of times something is done properly is very rare. Even Zidane heatbutted the guy in the chest.

*Has anyone ever landed a proper punch or headbutt in the premier league era? *I can’t think of any.
		
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The Goodison legend that is Funky Dunky…?


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 17, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The Goodison legend that is Funky Dunky…?
		
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Wasn’t that when he played in Scotland though ?


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## Golfmmad (Aug 17, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			with all the play acting that goes on within football, the number of times something is done properly is very rare. Even Zidane heatbutted the guy in the chest.

Has anyone ever landed a proper punch or headbutt in the premier league era? I can’t think of any.
		
Click to expand...

I can think of one, the best ever. 
Not in this era but still relatable. 
The old first division pre the Premier League. 
I give you:
Francis Lee (Man City)  v Norman Hunter (Leeds United) now that was a proper fight,  a classy boxing exhibition from Lee. 
Lots on here too young but I'm sure it can be found on YouTube. 👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 17, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The Goodison legend that is Funky Dunky…?
		
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clubchamp98 said:



			Wasn’t that when he played in Scotland though ?
		
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He was as good as gold when he crossed the border, an angel at both Newcastle and Everton .


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## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He was as good as gold when he crossed the border, an angel at both Newcastle and Everton .
		
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Angel and Ferguson are you sure??

Ask stefan Freund (sp) for a reference 😄


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## chrisd (Aug 17, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I can think of one, the best ever.
Not in this era but still relatable.
The old first division pre the Premier League.
I give you:
Francis Lee (Man City)  v Norman Hunter (Leeds United) now that was a proper fight,  a classy boxing exhibition from Lee.
Lots on here too young but I'm sure it can be found on YouTube. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Now that's what getting sent off was designed for !


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Angel and Ferguson are you sure??

Ask stefan Freund (sp) for a reference 😄
		
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Yeah, but it was Stefan Freund so that doesn't count


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## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yeah, but it was Stefan Freund so that doesn't count 

Click to expand...

Never realised you were in the grammar police😁


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Never realised you were in the grammar police😁
		
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No, I meant he was an irritating piece of work and throttling him doesn't count. No grammar police at work here


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## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No, I meant he was an irritating piece of work and throttling him doesn't count. No grammar police at work here 

Click to expand...

🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

I thought you'd cracked a funny one for a minute, i know they're few and far between like 🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

I thought you'd cracked a fumny one for a minute, i know they're few and far between like 🤣🤣
		
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I'll give you a funny one, to make up for it. Chelsea might pay Everton £50m for Anthony Gordon


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## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll give you a funny one, to make up for it. Chelsea might pay Everton £50m for Anthony Gordon 

Click to expand...

Stop it🤣🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 17, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I can think of one, the best ever.
Not in this era but still relatable.
The old first division pre the Premier League.
I give you:
Francis Lee (Man City)  v Norman Hunter (Leeds United) now that was a proper fight,  a classy boxing exhibition from Lee.
Lots on here too young but I'm sure it can be found on YouTube. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Did Lee take a dive ?
He normally did , only the front of his kit ever got dirty.
Two good footballers though.

Can you imagine Hunters reaction to Anderson’s collapse.


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## BrianM (Aug 17, 2022)

Rumour about Ronaldo going to Chelsea, You would think he would play well / score goals in the way Chelsea set up.
Not forgetting, playing with better players


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 17, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Rumour about Ronaldo going to Chelsea, You would think he would play well / score goals in the way Chelsea set up.
Not forgetting, playing with better players 

Click to expand...

Yes I think he would do well there.
Just be careful when he shakes Tuchels hand.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 17, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62573078

Delighted with another transfer 

Solid summer Buisness 

Will be needed asap as a CB and gives us the option of putting Johnson at rb


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

You'll never guess where our next new signing is from.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			You'll never guess where our next new signing is from.
		
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Denmark, Sweden, Iceland?

Iceland,  definitely Iceland 😄

Are you contractually obliged to only buy from this one country, Iceland? It does seem a little obsessive.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			You'll never guess where our next new signing is from.
		
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Is that the one who told Moyes he was turning down west ham to wait for a bigger club 

I guess the Portugal national team is massive 🤣


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Denmark, Sweden, Iceland?

Iceland,  definitely Iceland 😄

Are you contractually obliged to only buy from this one country, Iceland? It does seem a little obsessive.
		
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The more the better, easier to integrate into the club and he knows a lot of them from the Portguese national squad. Should fit straight in.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Is that the one who told Moyes he was turning down west ham to wait for a bigger club

I guess the Portugal national team is massive 🤣
		
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We'd agreed with him to give him until August 15th to wait for a Champions league club, none came, so he's joined the portguese outpost in Wolverhampton. Easier move for him. 

The bigger clubs will see how he is after one season and then probably make their move. Win win for us.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			We'd agreed with him to give him until August 15th to wait for a Champions league club, none came, so he's joined the portguese outpost in Wolverhampton. Easier move for him. 

The bigger clubs will see how he is after one season and then probably make their move. Win win for us.
		
Click to expand...

Very good point, also I guess for us who wants to come into a team were you won't become a first teamer guaranteed ..

I think it's why we haven't got in a established cm because they see rice and soucek knowing their first choice if fit 

Our new Germain CB can play either full backs, CB or cdm so I can see him being our John oshea lol


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## Tashyboy (Aug 18, 2022)

Surprised no one has mentioned the interest in Man Utd’s “ alleged” takeover.


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## Beezerk (Aug 18, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Surprised no one has mentioned the interest in Man Utd’s “ alleged” takeover.
		
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It’s all a bit weird. Elon Musk tweets then says it’s a joke, then within hours the Glazers say a portion may be up for sale 🤔


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 18, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Surprised no one has mentioned the interest in Man Utd’s “ alleged” takeover.
		
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The Elon Musk 'gag' or the Jim Ratcliffe comment? One is definitely not serious, Musk, the other is unlikely as the Glazer's don't seem interested in selling. It doesn't seem realistic I guess.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			We'd agreed with him to give him until August 15th to wait for a Champions league club, none came, so he's joined the portguese outpost in Wolverhampton. Easier move for him.

The bigger clubs will see how he is after one season and then probably make their move. Win win for us.
		
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Maybe Ronaldo will join you in the next couple of weeks


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## Swango1980 (Aug 18, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Surprised no one has mentioned the interest in Man Utd’s “ alleged” takeover.
		
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There is a lot of noise about Man Utd at the moment, and I expect that to be the case for at least the next couple of weeks with transfers.

I'm struggling to have any desire to form any opinion on much of the speculation being talked about. I think I'd prefer to wait until there is actually concrete news on anything, whether that be transfers or ownership.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe Ronaldo will join you in the next couple of weeks
		
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Well we do need a striker...


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

Looks like Forest have got their man. £35m for Morgan Gibbs-White. Unbelievable money.


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## Don Barzini (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Looks like Forest have got their man. £35m for Morgan Gibbs-White. Unbelievable money.
		
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This deal has been so on-again-off-again that I'll have to wait until he's unvelied in a Forest kit before I believe it! Have to say I haven't seen him play all that much so I'm not sure what to think of him/the price tag. Cooper obviously very keen on him though and as a Forest fan, in Coops I trust!


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			This deal has been so on-again-off-again that I'll have to wait until he's unvelied in a Forest kit before I believe it! Have to say I haven't seen him play all that much so I'm not sure what to think of him/the price tag. Cooper obviously very keen on him though and as a Forest fan, in Coops I trust! 

Click to expand...

Some proper journalists are reporting it rather than the ones who just guess so I think it's done. Medical this afternoon. 
Good player, plenty of effort and some bits of quality. Completely unproven in the Premier league though, it's a massive risk, 44.5m including the add ons.


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## Orikoru (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Looks like Forest have got their man. £35m for Morgan Gibbs-White. Unbelievable money.
		
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What the hell?? How is a guy who can't get in the Wolves team commanding that sort of fee? Admittedly if he'd have changed his name to Guedes-Branco he'd have had more chance but still. English tax is real.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			What the hell?? How is a guy who can't get in the Wolves team commanding that sort of fee? Admittedly if he'd have changed his name to Guedes-Branco he'd have had more chance but still. English tax is real.
		
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He's started the first two games of the season, but I take your point.

He's had one good season in the Championship.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Looks like Forest have got their man. £35m for Morgan Gibbs-White. Unbelievable money.
		
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Forest are doing a Chelsea, but at a lower price level. Buying everything in sight. To be fair, they seem to be buying pretty well on the whole

It seems an awful lot for someone most will have to google.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Forest are doing a Chelsea, but at a lower price level. Buying everything in sight. To be fair, they seem to be buying pretty well on the whole

It seems an awful lot for someone most will have to google.
		
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We've basically swapped him for Nunes who has played 8 times for Portugal and Champions League football. English tax in full effect.


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## RRidges (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Looks like Forest have got their man. £35m for Morgan Gibbs-White. Unbelievable money.
		
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44.5M, including add-ons, according to most reports.
Who knows what the exact deal is though as many/most deals are quite 'qualified' from their 'max possible' headline value!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			We've basically swapped him for Nunes who has played 8 times for Portugal and Champions League football. English tax in full effect.
		
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Happy with the deal then? I know nothing about him so its a genuine question.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

RRidges said:



			44.5M, including add-ons, according to most reports.
Who knows what the exact deal is though as many/most deals are quite 'qualified' from their 'max possible' headline value!
		
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35m is still far too much.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Happy with the deal then? I know nothing about him so its a genuine question.
		
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I would've kept him, think he had a part to play for us, not as important to us as his Portguese teammates and definitely not worth keeping when he's got 2 years left and not interested in signing another deal. At that price, deal was a no brainer for us.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Some proper journalists are reporting it rather than the ones who just guess so I think it's done. Medical this afternoon.
Good player, plenty of effort and some bits of quality. Completely unproven in the Premier league though, it's a massive risk, 44.5m including the add ons.
		
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Orikoru said:



			What the hell?? How is a guy who can't get in the Wolves team commanding that sort of fee? Admittedly if he'd have changed his name to Guedes-Branco he'd have had more chance but still. English tax is real.
		
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Basically, there's more to this than *just* signing Morgan Gibbs White.

He was Cooper's number 1 target at the start of the summer....what has transpired is that Cooper and Murphy (our CEO) have put together some great transfers, but I'm told that some of the signings they had nothing to do with and were not consulted, which obviously (and understandably) didn't go down well with them. Cooper has yet to sign the contract extension he was offered at the start of summer.

I genuinely believe if we didn't get Gibbs-White, because of what had transpired with the random signings they've now had to make work, Cooper and Murphy would have walked

So yes, £44.5m is massively overpaying (even with English Premier League player tax) - BUT I'm pretty sure we'll shortly have an announcement that Cooper has signed his contract extension now this deal is done.

Essentially, I think they've probably given an ultimatum to the owners, and stuck their own necks on the line - because if he flops, Cooper might well be gone anyway. He knows him well, having coached him at Swansea - so I trust his judgement.

EDIT: Also, told you we'd sign him before the end of the window


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## fundy (Aug 18, 2022)

Go on then Forest fans, whats your best side now after all your latest additions, give us FPL mangers a chance????

Gibbs White, Awoniyi, Willians, Dennis, Niakhate, Biancone, Freuler, Richards, O Brien, Toffolo, Aguilera, Lingard, Kouyate, Hennessy, Henderson all in in the last few mths

Some job ahead of Cooper gelling a side together pretty much overnight


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## Orikoru (Aug 18, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			EDIT: Also, told you we'd sign him before the end of the window 

Click to expand...

Well there wouldn't be much point signing him after the end of the window..


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			Go on then Forest fans, whats your best side now after all your latest additions, give us FPL mangers a chance????

Gibbs White, Awoniyi, Willians, Dennis, Niakhate, Biancone, Freuler, Richards, O Brien, Toffolo, Aguilera, Lingard, Kouyate, Hennessy, Henderson

*Some job ahead of Cooper gelling a side together pretty much overnight*

Click to expand...

If the difference between how we played at Newcastle vs West Ham is anything to go by, Cooper's gelling magic will work just fine. It was like two different teams with only 2 changes to the starting lineup (and over half the starting 11 were still new squad players)

The jury is out until we see Freuler, Dennis and Kouyate (and Gibbs White), but I suspect it will go something like;

                   Henderson
Worrall     Niakhate      McKenna
Williams   Freuler/Mangala/Kouyate   Toffolo (Richards when healthy, but there's more than meets the eye with that I think - there's been zero update on him)
              O'Brien 
              MGW (Lingard backing up) 
Johnson           Awoniyi (or Dennis If he gets in Cooper's good books)


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 18, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Well there wouldn't be much point signing him after the end of the window..
		
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badum tish


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 18, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560271027153711106


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## Bazzatron (Aug 18, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Basically, there's more to this than *just* signing Morgan Gibbs White.

He was Cooper's number 1 target at the start of the summer....what has transpired is that Cooper and Murphy (our CEO) have put together some great transfers, but I'm told that some of the signings they had nothing to do with and were not consulted, which obviously (and understandably) didn't go down well with them. Cooper has yet to sign the contract extension he was offered at the start of summer.

I genuinely believe if we didn't get Gibbs-White, because of what had transpired with the random signings they've now had to make work, Cooper and Murphy would have walked

So yes, £44.5m is massively overpaying (even with English Premier League player tax) - BUT I'm pretty sure we'll shortly have an announcement that Cooper has signed his contract extension now this deal is done.

Essentially, I think they've probably given an ultimatum to the owners, and stuck their own necks on the line - because if he flops, Cooper might well be gone anyway. He knows him well, having coached him at Swansea - so I trust his judgement.

EDIT: Also, told you we'd sign him before the end of the window 

Click to expand...

So you've kind of spent the money not just on MGW but on keeping the manager happy so he stays?


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 18, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			So you've kind of spent the money not just on MGW but on keeping the manager happy so he stays?
		
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Yep. The owner believes in Cooper and Murphy and the vision they have for the club. I think his son (who had been bought on board to assist whilst his dad was still based in Greece) went a bit “football manager” with one or two signings, so this is is part of getting everyone back on the same page and working towards the same goal.

Cooper has wanted him since day 1, and believes in his potential and how he fits in the system….so I guess we’ll soon see if his gamble pays off.

I fully expect Cooper’s contract extension announcement in the coming days.


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## 4LEX (Aug 18, 2022)

Fair play to Forest, nice to see a promoted club really going for it. This signing takes the pressure off Lingard so it could be a very smart piece of business.


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## Slime (Aug 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The Elon Musk 'gag' or the Jim Ratcliffe comment? One is definitely not serious, Musk, *the other is unlikely as* *the Glazer's don't seem interested in selling. *It doesn't seem realistic I guess.
		
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It's the hope that kills me.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 18, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Fair play to Forest, nice to see a promoted club really going for it. This signing takes the pressure off Lingard so it could be a very smart piece of business.
		
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Average cost of our transfers has been around £9m per player. We’ve replaced the 5 loans and 8 expired contracts we lost and upgraded and strengthened at the positions we needed to. 

Get Cooper’s extension signed, and Jimmy Garner back in to give us more midfield options and I don’t think they could have done much better.


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## 4LEX (Aug 18, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Average cost of our transfers has been around £9m per player. We’ve replaced the 5 loans and 8 expired contracts we lost and upgraded and strengthened at the positions we needed to.

Get Cooper’s extension signed, and Jimmy Garner back in to give us more midfield options and I don’t think they could have done much better.
		
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Where do you think you'll finish out of interest? I'm definitely going to get myself to The City ground for one game this season as a groundhopper.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 18, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Where do you think you'll finish out of interest? I'm definitely going to get myself to The City ground for one game this season as a groundhopper.
		
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In the wake of the MGW news, I’ve just put bets for top half and top 6 finishes 🤣 but realistically I think 14-17 is where we’ll finish. 

I know it’s early days but I’m confident we can do the job to stay up. 

Tickets will be hard to come by this season but if you want a ticket in the home seats, I’m a silver member so happy to get you a ticket as I won’t be able to make it every week (living 150 miles away with a new born as well!). Just let me know which game tickles your fancy and I’ll sort you one out.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 18, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62596652

So Mike Dean Fesses up that he made a mistake in the VAR booth when not asking the ref to have a look at the hair pull scenario on the spurs v Chelsea game.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 18, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Yep. *The owner believes in Cooper and Murphy *and the vision they have for the club. I think his son (who had been bought on board to assist whilst his dad was still based in Greece) went a bit “football manager” with one or two signings, so this is is part of getting everyone back on the same page and working towards the same goal.

Cooper has wanted him since day 1, and believes in his potential and how he fits in the system….so I guess we’ll soon see if his gamble pays off.

I fully expect Cooper’s contract extension announcement in the coming days.
		
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Judging by the way he was frantically crossing himself every time the camera was on him on Sunday he also believes In fairies 🧚‍♀️ 😁


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 18, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Judging by the way he was frantically crossing himself every time the camera was on him on Sunday he also believes In fairies 🧚‍♀️ 😁
		
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🤣
worked on Sunday and in the playoff final. Keep doing it, I say!


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## DaveR (Aug 18, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560271854413049856


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 18, 2022)

DaveR said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560271854413049856

Click to expand...

😂😂😂
*£25m plus potential add-ons 😉


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 18, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62596652

So Mike Dean Fesses up that he made a mistake in the VAR booth when not asking the ref to have a look at the hair pull scenario on the spurs v Chelsea game.
		
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Finally realises that he hasn't got a leg to stand on and is trying to talk his way out of it more like.

I wonder how long it would take him to work out it was a violent act if someone put him on his arse?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The Elon Musk 'gag' or the *Jim Ratcliffe* comment? One is definitely not serious, Musk, the other is unlikely as the Glazer's don't seem interested in selling. It doesn't seem realistic I guess.
		
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Is that the same Jim Ratcliffe that submitted a bid to buy Chelsea after the deadline or a different one?


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## Orikoru (Aug 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Finally realises that he hasn't got a leg to stand on and is trying to talk his way out of it more like.

I wonder how long it would take him to work out it was a violent act if someone put him on his arse?
		
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Now that I realise it was Dean I can totally picture his "well he shouldn't have such ridiculous hair" type reaction. Remember that famous clip of him pulling the face at Fellaini?


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## Jimaroid (Aug 18, 2022)

There’s an interesting/controversial point about that Mike Dean thing - why should a paid-for column in the daily mail be the place where VAR mistakes are held to scrutiny? It makes no reasonable sense at all. And it’s not a criticism of the daily mail, the question would be fair whatever the rag.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Finally realises that he hasn't got a leg to stand on and is trying to talk his way out of it more like.

I wonder how long it would take him to work out it was a violent act if someone put him on his arse?
		
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The issue for me with this is that everyone knows they got it wrong. Everyone can see its a foul and a red. So why come out now and say it? It doesn't help at all. If anything it makes it worse. For Chelsea fans, the goal doesn't happen and you win. For (non-spurs) football fans, the correct outcome happens. But none of that did. So why bother now?

It's the same as the Welbeck pen against United where everybody after the game says "yes that's a pen" and ref-watch they come  out with "it's a teething problem with the var changes this season" suggesting a foul at the beginning of the season isn't a foul at the end.

With VAR, if there is *anything* contentious, let the ref look. Let him decide. Inevitably they'll get some wrong in the eyes of fans, but it's the guy in the  middle making the decision.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 18, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			The issue for me with this is that everyone knows they got it wrong. Everyone can see its a foul and a red. So why come out now and say it? It doesn't help at all. If anything it makes it worse. For Chelsea fans, the goal doesn't happen and you win. For (non-spurs) football fans, the correct outcome happens. But none of that did. So why bother now?

It's the same as the Welbeck pen against United where everybody after the game says "yes that's a pen" and ref-watch they come  out with "it's a teething problem with the var changes this season" suggesting a foul at the beginning of the season isn't a foul at the end.

*With VAR, if there is *anything* contentious, let the ref look. Let him decide. Inevitably they'll get some wrong in the eyes of fans, but it's the guy in the  middle making the decision*.
		
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That would be ideal if the on field refs were allowed to do this. At least then the man in the middle is making the key decisions he’s supposed to.

Last season every decision the refs looked at the pitch side monitor, they were all overturned. 0 decisions got upheld. 

On the balance of probability you’d expect a % of decisions to get upheld.

VAR in Britain is being used incorrectly.


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## RRidges (Aug 19, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			With VAR, if there is *anything* contentious, let the ref look. Let him decide. Inevitably they'll get some wrong in the eyes of fans, but it's the guy in the  middle making the decision.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			That would be ideal if the on field refs were allowed to do this. At least then the man in the middle is making the key decisions he’s supposed to.

Last season every decision the refs looked at the pitch side monitor, they were all overturned. 0 decisions got upheld.

On the balance of probability you’d expect a % of decisions to get upheld.

VAR in Britain is being used incorrectly.
		
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Perhaps you guys should look at the VAR rules...
https://www.premierleague.com/news/... the broadcast,they can recommend an overturn.
Same procedure is used in Internatonal games and likely other countries too.
I'm not surprised that 0% of decisions are upheld as Ref is only directed to screen for clear and obvious errors!
The hair-pulling incident was simply one of those where a Ref made a decision that he later determined he would have ruled differently on.


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## 4LEX (Aug 19, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			In the wake of the MGW news, I’ve just put bets for top half and top 6 finishes 🤣 but realistically I think 14-17 is where we’ll finish.

I know it’s early days but I’m confident we can do the job to stay up.

Tickets will be hard to come by this season but if you want a ticket in the home seats, I’m a silver member so happy to get you a ticket as I won’t be able to make it every week (living 150 miles away with a new born as well!). Just let me know which game tickles your fancy and I’ll sort you one out.
		
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14-17th would be a great season. I reckon you'll stay up now without much trouble. Even if you're in mither you'll buy yourself out of it in January 

Yeah tickets will definitely be difficult to get especially as I would prefer a game v Man Utd, Leeds, Liverpool or City! Appreciate the kind offer and if you can get two tickets for any of those I'll donate £50 on top to a charity of your choice


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 19, 2022)

4LEX said:



			14-17th would be a great season. I reckon you'll stay up now without much trouble. Even if you're in mither you'll buy yourself out of it in January 

Yeah tickets will definitely be difficult to get especially as I would prefer a game v Man Utd, Leeds, Liverpool or City! Appreciate the kind offer and if you can get two tickets for any of those I'll donate £50 on top to a charity of your choice 

Click to expand...

well I can all but guarantee at least one ticket for any of those fixtures (provided I’m not going myself! ). 
2nd tickets can be a bit trickier but not impossible. I have a friend who has a season card with his dad, who doesn’t go every week as he’s not in the best of health. I generally buy my ticket in the spare seat next to his season card seats, so if there’s one of his group not going, a second ticket isn’t a problem.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 19, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is that the same Jim Ratcliffe that submitted a bid to buy Chelsea after the deadline or a different one?
		
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Yes same one. He's a business man, he sees an opportunity. It's why he is one of the richest men in the country.


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## RichA (Aug 19, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			The issue for me with this is that everyone knows they got it wrong. Everyone can see its a foul and a red. So why come out now and say it? It doesn't help at all. If anything it makes it worse. For Chelsea fans, the goal doesn't happen and you win. For (non-spurs) football fans, the correct outcome happens. But none of that did. So why bother now?

It's the same as the Welbeck pen against United where everybody after the game says "yes that's a pen" and ref-watch they come  out with "it's a teething problem with the var changes this season" suggesting a foul at the beginning of the season isn't a foul at the end.

With VAR, if there is *anything* contentious, let the ref look. Let him decide. Inevitably they'll get some wrong in the eyes of fans, but it's the guy in the  middle making the decision.
		
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Not everyone. Certainly a foul but not a red card, in my opinion.
It bothers me that every VAR incident is viewed in slo-mo. Lots of football's laws are based on intent and slo-mo makes everything look 20 times worse than it was.


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## backwoodsman (Aug 19, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



*In the wake of the MGW news, I’ve just put bets for top half and top 6 finishes 🤣 but realistically I think 14-17 is where we’ll finish*.

I know it’s early days but I’m confident we can do the job to stay up.

Tickets will be hard to come by this season but if you want a ticket in the home seats, I’m a silver member so happy to get you a ticket as I won’t be able to make it every week (living 150 miles away with a new born as well!). Just let me know which game tickles your fancy and I’ll sort you one out.
		
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I did the same - but a bit back. Mad money I know, but there was a few quid in the betting account, and you have to show faith  (Interested to know what odds you got?. Mine were 10/1 and 50/1 )

Cheeky question - does your Silver membership get you any priority for away tickets. They are like hens teeth for mere mortals? I try to get to London matches but rarely succeed. And Premiership?  Ha ha ha ha ....


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## Neilds (Aug 19, 2022)

With the talk about Forest buying players that the manager might not want, and fans of Man Utd blaming the board for bad signings, how much say do people think managers have in who the club signs?  My club, Rotherham Utd don't seem to sign anyone who doesn't fit into the manager's vision and ethos for the club with the manager interviewing prospective signings before any signature.  Tome, this is a good think and stops any big time charlies upsetting the dressing room, etc


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 19, 2022)

Neilds said:



			With the talk about Forest buying players that the manager might not want, and fans of Man Utd blaming the board for bad signings, how much say do people think managers have in who the club signs?  My club, Rotherham Utd don't seem to sign anyone who doesn't fit into the manager's vision and ethos for the club with the manager interviewing prospective signings before any signature.  Tome, this is a good think and stops any big time charlies upsetting the dressing room, etc
		
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I find it incredible that owners / directors of football sign anyone without the approval of the manager / coach. I do think there needs to be a committee element so that a single manager can not go crazy and buy against the long term plan of the club, lumping the club with unwanted players long term, but the manager has to be central to the decision. If the manager doesn't want a player, they simply should not sign them. That seems obvious to me.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 19, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			I did the same - but a bit back. Mad money I know, but there was a few quid in the betting account, and you have to show faith  (Interested to know what odds you got?. Mine were 10/1 and 50/1 )

Cheeky question - does your Silver membership get you any priority for away tickets. They are like hens teeth for mere mortals? I try to get to London matches but rarely succeed. And Premiership?  Ha ha ha ha ....
		
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I got 51/1 for top 6 and 8/1 on Top 10. Easy money 

And unfortunately it doesn't. Away memberships were a bone of contention with the fans this year - the club changed the way they did it, and REALLY dropped the ball on how it was handled. Essentially, 500 "gold priority plus" members were assigned to those who had been to 18 or more away games last season - they are guaranteed an away ticket every game. 

The remaining 2500 away allocation (standard 3000k allocation for premier league) has to be fought between a further 4500 members which was offered 1st come, 1st serve to season card members. So you can pay for an away membership but never be lucky enough to get a ticket. There's a Forest ticket exchange WhatsApp group that a group of us setup, to help those without memberships get tickets to home games and on the odd occasion, away games. 

we've always has a strong away following, but will be nigh on impossible to get an away ticket this season. I only just managed to get a ticket for Bristol City away last season - which was on a cold, rainy Tuesday in October 200 miles from Nottingham. 



Neilds said:



			With the talk about Forest buying players that the manager might not want, and fans of Man Utd blaming the board for bad signings, how much say do people think managers have in who the club signs?  My club, Rotherham Utd don't seem to sign anyone who doesn't fit into the manager's vision and ethos for the club with the manager interviewing prospective signings before any signature.  Tome, this is a good think and stops any big time charlies upsetting the dressing room, etc
		
Click to expand...




Lord Tyrion said:



			I find it incredible that owners / directors of football sign anyone without the approval of the manager / coach. I do think there needs to be a committee element so that a single manager can not go crazy and buy against the long term plan of the club, lumping the club with unwanted players long term, but the manager has to be central to the decision. If the manager doesn't want a player, they simply should not sign them. That seems obvious to me.
		
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Depends on the infrastructure of the club I think. Steve Cooper, when offered the job, specifically wanted the role of Head Coach (rather than manager), as it meant he could be directly involved in scouting and recruitment, to ensure he got the players he wants. I don't know the details, but I believe that Marinakis Jr. has got a bit carried away and one or two of the players we've bought in have been without approval from Cooper and Dane Murphy (Murphy being our CEO who is the real brains behind our success - his analytical approach as well as pure scouting has helped us bring in some real quality - think Moneyball - it's not an approach that's been used in Football widely, but he had success at Burnley and has helped transform this club in such a short space of time)..

The Owner (Marinakis Snr.) stated at the Promotion Parade that he wants to build a new legacy and history with Forest and will give Steve Cooper "whatever he needs" to have success in the premier league and that we're not here to make up the numbers. 

And in fairness to him, he's stuck to his word and given the club EVERYTHING they need to build a squad to compete. People are rattled because they think we're "doing a Fulham" - but the reality is, 5 loanees lost and 8-10 players out of contract has meant we've needed to buy in so many players to re-build the starting 11 and give us depth at every position so we can be in a position to compete. Had we not done that, we'd be looking at running with our U23's; as good as they are, they're not ready for this level.

With the report I heard about player(s) being bought in without consulting Cooper and Murphy, I think there's truth to it - but I also think that Marinakis has stepped in and said "I'll make this right. We'll get you Gibbs White if you think he's worth the asking price - but I need you to sign your extension so you can take us forward". The belief in the backroom staff is second to none, and rightly so. Cooper and Murphy have done nothing to show that they'll do anything but succeed.

Of course, it's a massive gamble by all parties. The owner is investing this much money with the assumption we're staying up this season - but we all know that's not guaranteed. But there must be something in the longterm plan which suggests they're confident we can do the business - otherwise we wouldn't be going all in with the re-build this summer. 

In all honesty, it's super refreshing to have an owner SO invested in the club having had the Kuwaiti conman Fawaz previously who nearly ran the club into administration due to his over inflated ego. The club has been in the gutter for nearly 20 years and we finally have the infrastructure in place to actually succeed. I'm still waiting for it to all come crashing down.


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## Neilds (Aug 19, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			In all honesty, it's super refreshing to have an owner SO invested in the club having had the Kuwaiti conman Fawaz previously who nearly ran the club into administration due to his over inflated ego. The club has been in the gutter for nearly 20 years and we finally have the infrastructure in place to actually succeed. I'm still waiting for it to all come crashing down. 

Click to expand...

So one owner is a conman as he ploughs load of money into the club to try and get into the top division but the new one is completely different because he ploughs loads of money into the club to stay in the top division .......


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## Swango1980 (Aug 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I find it incredible that owners / directors of football sign anyone without the approval of the manager / coach. I do think there needs to be a committee element so that a single manager can not go crazy and buy against the long term plan of the club, lumping the club with unwanted players long term, but the manager has to be central to the decision. If the manager doesn't want a player, they simply should not sign them. That seems obvious to me.
		
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Agreed. As you said, I think it is very important that those on the board have a really sound idea of what sort of players / philosophy they want to play to, and obviously be really sharp and astute as to building a great foundation to get that (great scouts, relationships outside their club, managers they employ, etc). Then, once a manager comes in, it is important that they get a guy in that is singing from the same hymn sheet. Then, they can all work together to really decide what players they need. The manager should have a great idea on areas he is lacking, and they can work together to solve those problems. Having that great foundation means that, if you get a manager in that doesn't really work out, at least you haven't wasted a whole load of money on players the club might not really have fancied, and then have them in the squad for years to come.

I think City and Liverpool have done that quite well, including getting the right managers in. Man Utd have been appalling. Throwing money out the window to get any potentially big name that might be available, or even thinking some players are decent, spend huge money and then realise they are not all that. Coupled with completely different types of managers, who probably have their own completely different ideas on how football should be played (and one with no experience apart from he used to be a great squad player for the club)


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## RichA (Aug 19, 2022)

Neilds said:



			So one owner is a conman as he ploughs load of money into the club to try and get into the top division but the new one is completely different because he ploughs loads of money into the club to stay in the top division .......

Click to expand...

The first one was an asset stripper who tried to take out more than he put in.
The second one seems to be as you describe.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 19, 2022)

I can't believe how excited Forest fans are about him. Fair enough, seems all parties are delighted about the deal.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			I can't believe how excited Forest fans are about him. Fair enough, seems all parties are delighted about the deal.
		
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Be careful, You said similar about the Jota deal bazza, iirc your quote was "we got the better deal" 🤔😁


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## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2022)

RRidges said:



			Perhaps you guys should look at the VAR rules...
https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321#:~:text=The VAR reviews the broadcast,they can recommend an overturn.
Same procedure is used in Internatonal games and likely other countries too.
I'm not surprised that 0% of decisions are upheld as Ref is only directed to screen for clear and obvious errors!
The hair-pulling incident was simply one of those where a Ref made a decision that he later determined he would have ruled differently on.
		
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I'm pretty certain had refs been sent to the monitor to see the Rodri handball V Everton, Kanes (yellow card)dangerous tackle on Robbo, Jota's stonewall non pen v spurs etc then  the outcomes would be different.

This "clear and obvious error" is a waste of time. It seems onfield refs are told to change their minds. I can see why they set the bar so high, it's to limit the breaks in play. They dont want refs cjecking monitors left right and centre in some games


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## Newtonuti (Aug 19, 2022)

Neilds said:



			With the talk about Forest buying players that the manager might not want, and fans of Man Utd blaming the board for bad signings, how much say do people think managers have in who the club signs?  My club, Rotherham Utd don't seem to sign anyone who doesn't fit into the manager's vision and ethos for the club with the manager interviewing prospective signings before any signature.  Tome, this is a good think and stops any big time charlies upsetting the dressing room, etc
		
Click to expand...

Not sure about in premiership clubs, but the Scunthorpe owner appointed his 23 year old son as head of recruitment. This led to players being signed who shouldn't be anywhere near a football pitch, and at least two managers leaving due to not being able to sign who THEY wanted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 19, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560290288538730497


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## Bazzatron (Aug 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Be careful, You said similar about the Jota deal bazza, iirc your quote was "we got the better deal" 🤔😁
		
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I've been meaning to ask, any chance you could pay what you owe? 
Also, as soon as a player leaves they become absolutely dreadful. Didn't want him anyway 😆


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## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			I've been meaning to ask, any chance you could pay what you owe?
Also, as soon as a player leaves they become absolutely dreadful. Didn't want him anyway 😆
		
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What do i owe?

😁😁


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 19, 2022)

Neilds said:



			So one owner is a conman as he ploughs load of money into the club to try and get into the top division but the new one is completely different because he ploughs loads of money into the club to stay in the top division .......

Click to expand...

Incorrect. Al Hasawi and his board took money from the club, and tried to find loopholes around FFP to bring in signings we couldn't afford and paying them ridiculous wages (i.e. by using his own business to sponsor the team's kit), which caused us to have a transfer embargo for multiple windows. Not to mention rinsing through no less than EIGHT managers in 4 years of ownership. 

Marinakis and the team he's built have helped clear the club's debt, stuck to FFP and sold players and academy graduates to fund new signings (i.e. we were basically forced to sell Matty Cash for £14m to Villa so that we could re-invest in more depth), and optimised loanees to keep club finances on an even keel. Whilst at the same time, culling the deadwood and overpaid players (with the exception of Harry Arter who is still stealing a living)
This culminated with promotion and receiving nearly £150m for being promoted, and actually re-investing ALL of that back into the club to give the management the best chance of competing in the Premier League.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 19, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			I can't believe how excited Forest fans are about him. Fair enough, seems all parties are delighted about the deal.
		
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I'm mainly excited because I trust Cooper's judgement. He's known him and coached him since pussy was a kitten - so he must have belief in being able to mould him into a world class player. Cooper has hit nothing but home runs with all the transfers he bought in the January window, so I've got no reason not to trust his judgement. As I've said before, we've massively overpaid, but IF he's instrumental in a.) Cooper signing his contract extension and b.) keeping us in the premier league - he's worth every bit of whatever the final value is. Sounds like you'll be guaranteed at least £10m on top of the £25m for appearances and the other £7-9m will come in if we achieve a decent league position and/or he bags a certain number of goals/assists. If we end up paying full whack, it likely means we've had a successful season. 

Sounds like Everton tried to swoop in at the last minute. But no one wants to go and play for that sinking ship.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560556809383038976


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## adam6177 (Aug 19, 2022)

£70m for a 30 year old....bringing the net spend over last 10 years to £974 million.

Wow.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 20, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			£70m for a 30 year old....bringing the net spend over last 10 years to £974 million.

Wow.
		
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Guillem Ballague did a really good piece on a podcast a day or two ago explaining why he wont suit how utd intend to play. Really wont suit 😳. He couldn't work out the move. It will be interesting to see how it goes in reality. 

On other news, Delle Alli looks as though he is off to the graveyard for English players, Turkey. Does anyone ever last more than a year playing there? What a waste of a career, only 26. Thankfully, the deal for Everton to take him from Spurs was a minimal cost outlay and so no real loss. A gamble worth taking, a shame he seems to have lost his desire for the game.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 20, 2022)

Cannot believe a Manchester club is paying over the Odds for over the hill players to try and get on the top table. Shouldn’t be allowed to happen 😉


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## pokerjoke (Aug 20, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			£70m for a 30 year old....bringing the net spend over last 10 years to £974 million.

Wow.
		
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A 30 year old this day and age is really ok he could honestly if he’s looked after himself go on for 5 or 6 good years.
However it all seems like desperation signings.
Jesse Lingard was at the club,an England international,a seasoned PL player and we got rid.
We are in a dire desperate situation.


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## Jensen (Aug 20, 2022)

Didn’t see the Spurs game, but looking at the stats doesn’t bold well entertainment wise.
Possession 50/50. Wolves had 20 shots to Spurs 11. Spurs 4 shots on target compared to Wolves 3.
I know stats can be misleading, but looks like a Conte team set up to play on the counter. 
Home game set up to play counter football against Wolves. Certainly not how I like to see Spurs play 😡


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## Tashyboy (Aug 20, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Didn’t see the Spurs game, but looking at the stats doesn’t bold well entertainment wise.
Possession 50/50. Wolves had 20 shots to Spurs 11. Spurs 4 shots on target compared to Wolves 3.
I know stats can be misleading, but looks like a Conte team set up to play on the counter.
Home game set up to play counter football against Wolves. Certainly not how I like to see Spurs play 😡
		
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He did that last season against City and got a good win. Actually it was gutting for me but am sure you know what I mean. Would be surprised to see him do it all season. Wolves and quite a few prem teams are banana skin games. spurs top of the league 😳👍


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## Orikoru (Aug 20, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Didn’t see the Spurs game, but looking at the stats doesn’t bold well entertainment wise.
Possession 50/50. Wolves had 20 shots to Spurs 11. Spurs 4 shots on target compared to Wolves 3.
I know stats can be misleading, but looks like a Conte team set up to play on the counter.
Home game set up to play counter football against Wolves. Certainly not how I like to see Spurs play 😡
		
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Wolves played a back five with effectively no strikers. It was them who played counter attack on us. Tough to break them down but we got there in the end. It wasn't a great watch really but 3 points, happy days. These are the games we would typically drop points on.

Edit: just on the shots - 10 of our 11 shots were from inside the box, 13 of their shots were from outside the box. I feel like Conte is instructing the team not to just hit speculative efforts and work to create better chances, like Pep's teams do.


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## BrianM (Aug 20, 2022)

Arsenal are looking like a completely different side so far this season.
Playing some great stuff.


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## Orikoru (Aug 20, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Arsenal are looking like a completely different side so far this season.
Playing some great stuff.
		
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Let's not get ahead of ourselves, they've not played anyone good yet. 😛


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Let's not get ahead of ourselves, they've not played anyone good yet. 😛
		
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Neither have Liverpool,and they look pants 😂😂😂😂


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## Bazzatron (Aug 20, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Didn’t see the Spurs game, but looking at the stats doesn’t bold well entertainment wise.
Possession 50/50. Wolves had 20 shots to Spurs 11. Spurs 4 shots on target compared to Wolves 3.
I know stats can be misleading, but looks like a Conte team set up to play on the counter.
Home game set up to play counter football against Wolves. Certainly not how I like to see Spurs play 😡
		
Click to expand...

We were decent first half but no striker to finish the good build up off. Dreadful second half when you stepped it up abit.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 20, 2022)

Gibbs-white looks every bit worth the money. Thrown in for 20 minutes at the end of the game after one day training with the squad and produced some nice moments. 
Really deserved the 3 points today, but switched off for their goal and paid the price (plus it was an absolute quality goal)


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## fundy (Aug 20, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Gibbs-white looks every bit worth the money. Thrown in for 20 minutes at the end of the game after one day training with the squad and produced some nice moments.
Really deserved the 3 points today, but switched off for their goal and paid the price (plus it was an absolute quality goal)
		
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after 20 mins? feels a bit like confirmation bias that Aztecs


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			after 20 mins? feels a bit like confirmation bias that Aztecs 

Click to expand...

🤣🤣 Well the fact he can slot into a team and make the impact he did after one training session with the squad, I can only take as positive. Even Lingard looked better after he came on 😅

I assume he’ll start against Spurs next weekend, so we’ll see what he’s all about, I suppose.


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## fundy (Aug 20, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			🤣🤣 Well the fact he can slot into a team and make the impact he did after one training session with the squad, I can only take as positive. Even Lingard looked better after he came on 😅

I assume he’ll start against Spurs next weekend, so we’ll see what he’s all about, I suppose.
		
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Poor old Jesse, last weeks news already 🤣🤣🤣

Hope they both look like world beaters next week


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			Poor old Jesse, last weeks news already 🤣🤣🤣

Hope they both look like world beaters next week 

Click to expand...

Spurs won’t be used to playing in front of crowd noise, so hopefully that’ll throw them off their game a bit. 😉


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## Slime (Aug 21, 2022)

Man United, and by that I mean the Glazers, in full panic mode.
It's pathetic and it's laughable.


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## Bazzatron (Aug 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Spurs won’t be used to playing in front of crowd noise, so hopefully that’ll throw them off their game a bit. 😉
		
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I thought I was the most positive football fan about but you take the crown now mate, love your optimism. You're after another of ours now, Willy Boly. Hasn't been the same since he had Covid and a few niggly injuries, I think you'll get him.


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

Mendy


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## BiMGuy (Aug 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Mendy 

Click to expand...

Goal should have been disallowed for a free kick last week 🤣


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

Koulibaly is on thin ice here


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## BiMGuy (Aug 21, 2022)

Can I borrow the squirrel please?


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## Piece (Aug 21, 2022)

Are Leeds prime Real Madrid here? 😄


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Koulibaly is on thin ice here
		
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Ice broken lol

Utterly brainless


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## BiMGuy (Aug 21, 2022)

Piece said:



			Are Leeds prime Real Madrid here? 😄
		
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This is bar far the best we have played under Marsch.


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			This is bar far the best we have played under Marsch.
		
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Marcelo who


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ice broken lol

Utterly brainless
		
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Utter stupidity. 

I'm goin out on a limb here but chelsea cant play 4 at the back with this lot, not enough pace.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			This is bar far the best we have played under Marsch.
		
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A pre season can be the difference for some managers.


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## BiMGuy (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			A pre season can be the difference for some managers.
		
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I was worried about this game after we bottled it in the last 20 last week.


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## Piece (Aug 21, 2022)

Don't think anyone saw that result coming. Chelsea were 50% off the pace; Leeds played so well that even a good Chelsea would have struggled.


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## Slime (Aug 21, 2022)

Missed the early games, they sound like they were fun!


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

Piece said:



			Don't think anyone saw that result coming. Chelsea were 50% off the pace; Leeds played so well that even a good Chelsea would have struggled.
		
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Leeds were excellent, Chelsea were a shambles. Most enjoyable


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I was worried about this game after we bottled it in the last 20 last week.
		
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I thought the same to be honest after seeing Chelsea’s performance against Spurs. It shows how unpredictable the PL is.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 21, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			I thought I was the most positive football fan about but you take the crown now mate, love your optimism. You're after another of ours now, Willy Boly. Hasn't been the same since he had Covid and a few niggly injuries, I think you'll get him.
		
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Haha! Just enjoying every minute of being back in the top flight whilst I can, might not last long. 
But that said, I believe in what Cooper is doing, and think we have a really good chance of staying up if he can get the most out of the players we’ve signed. 

Sounds like the injury to Niakhaté is worse than hoped, hence the need for Boly for centre back cover.


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought the same to be honest after seeing Chelsea’s performance against Spurs. It shows how unpredictable the PL is.
		
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Newcastle to run riot against Stones and Ake later it is then?


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## Bazzatron (Aug 21, 2022)

Greg Norman at the game today? Right up his street these two clubs.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

Newcastle look a real threat.


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## IanM (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Newcastle look a real threat.
		
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And therein lies the answer against City....have a go at them!


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## Bazzatron (Aug 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			And therein lies the answer against City....have a go at them!
		
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We tried that last season and KDB scored 4 and ended up the top goal scorer for the season at Molineux.


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## Orikoru (Aug 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Newcastle to run riot against Stones and Ake later it is then? 

Click to expand...

Looks that way! Annoyingly left Wilson on my bench in Fantasy. 😖


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			And therein lies the answer against City....have a go at them!
		
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They’re ahead by doing so. Most teams dont lay a glove on City week after week, some would rather get beat keeping the score line below 3 🤷‍♂️


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## srixon 1 (Aug 21, 2022)

Tuchel said Chelsea were the better team against Leeds. He must have been watching last seasons match.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

Newcastle unlucky not to get a pen there aswell. What is Stones doing there🤦‍♂️


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## BrianM (Aug 21, 2022)

Leeds superb today, made Chelsea look bang average.
Got to say the atmosphere at St James Park looks phenomenal on the TV, there not playing to bad either.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Leeds superb today, made Chelsea look bang average.
Got to say the atmosphere at St James Park looks phenomenal on the TV, there not playing to bad either.
		
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They’ve been the better side and should’ve had a pen


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## BrianM (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			They’ve been the better side and should’ve had a pen
		
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Just got even better 👏🏻👏🏻


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Newcastle look a real threat.
		
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Feeling better about conceding 2 goals to them on opening day now.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Feeling better about conceding 2 goals to them on opening day now.
		
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No, we played Fulham that day 😂😂😂


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

some game of football this


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2022)

That’s never a red


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s never a red
		
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knee high no attempt at the ball, red all day long for me


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## adam6177 (Aug 21, 2022)

Glad he changed to yellow, never a red.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2022)

@clubchamp98 , I thought for a moment that the PL had finally followed your advice 😄. Ah well, maybe next season


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## Reemul (Aug 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			knee high no attempt at the ball, red all day long for me
		
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Maybe you need to watch something less aggressive like Knitting


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

Reemul said:



			Maybe you need to watch something less aggressive like Knitting
		
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What lol

this forum really does get its fair share


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## Piece (Aug 21, 2022)

Another very tidy game. 👍

Can see why that was a red (knee high) and also why it was yellow (not excessive). Personally, I hate those cowardly challenges.

Next game - relegation 6 pointer! 😉😄


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2022)

That was enjoyable , some great attacking football , Saint-Maximim was superb - he is what Traore would be if he had end product 

this did make me giggle 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561399323597971458


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@clubchamp98 , I thought for a moment that the PL had finally followed your advice 😄. Ah well, maybe next season
		
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Yes so did I.
Still my stance any tackle not going for the ball .


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That was enjoyable , some great attacking football , Saint-Maximim was superb - he is what Traore would be if he had end product

this did make me giggle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561399323597971458

Click to expand...

Saint-Maximim is an incredible talent. Easily best player on the pitch when I watched them first weekend of the season.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Saint-Maximim is an incredible talent. Easily best player on the pitch when I watched them first weekend of the season.
		
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His end product more often than not is a bit meh.

Fantastic today but he could be frightening if he was consistent


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That was enjoyable , some great attacking football , Saint-Maximim was superb - he is what Traore would be if he had end product

this did make me giggle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561399323597971458

Click to expand...

Sarcasm is wasted on you phil


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## pauljames87 (Aug 21, 2022)

Really wish we would drop antonio and play the actual striker we paid good money for .. 

Fair play to Brighton. Proper bogey club for us 

Didn't expect a win but expect a better performance


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## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			knee high no attempt at the ball, red all day long for me
		
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Just outta interest coz I don’t know the answer to this. A two footed challenge with feet off the floor is deemed as “ player not in control so he sees red, yet both feet off floor and 1 footed challenge it’s yellow. Any reason for that. I thought it was deliberate and clumsy but dangerous no.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2022)

Only watched the second half as Ave been up to the tits in it. But from what I saw Newcastle were really balanced and organised. They looked hungry and had belief. Got to say i would be happy if I was a geordie fan at the moment.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just outta interest coz I don’t know the answer to this. A two footed challenge with feet off the floor is deemed as “ player not in control so he sees red, yet both feet off floor and 1 footed challenge it’s yellow. Any reason for that. I thought it was deliberate and clumsy but dangerous no.
		
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I don't think it was at all clumsy. It was both deliberate and calculated. He knew what he wanted to do and he did it. I disagree that it's not dangerous as well. Any player running flat out gets their legs taken away like that and you don't know the consequences. This time nothing, another time it could be quite different. 

I'm with @clubchamp98 on this, I'd like to see tackles like this taken out of the game.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Really wish we would drop antonio and play the actual striker we paid good money for ..

Fair play to Brighton. Proper bogey club for us

Didn't expect a win but expect a better performance
		
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Can we have Antonio back if you don’t want him?


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## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think it was at all clumsy. It was both deliberate and calculated. He knew what he wanted to do and he did it. I disagree that it's not dangerous as well. Any player running flat out gets their legs taken away like that and you don't know the consequences. This time nothing, another time it could be quite different.

I'm with @clubchamp98 on this, I'd like to see tackles like this taken out of the game.
		
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I have to be careful how I word it as the “ rose tinted glasses”  gets thrown back 😉. what surprised me was when the ref went to the screen what did he see different that he never saw in real time


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I have to be careful how I word it as the “ rose tinted glasses”  gets thrown back 😉. what surprised me was when the ref went to the screen what did he see different that he never saw in real time
		
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as Stu will no doubt tell you, once hes called to the screen hes always overruling, its not his decision, clearly theyre just saving face lol


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

I see it took Mbappe all of 8 seconds to score tonight for PSG, straight from the kick off


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## pauljames87 (Aug 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Can we have Antonio back if you don’t want him?
		
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Id rather keep him as back up and for the europa games for rotation. 

but he shouldnt be a starting striker in the premier league .. maybe in a 2 or a fluid 3 but not out and out

he is mr muscle but gets pushed off the ball so easy its rather pathetic to watch

then you have a proper striker on the bench who scored mid week and his reward was still on bench.. yes antonio scored an amazing tap in mid week aswell... but has done nothing in the league all season apart from get a goal disallowed against you guys for trying to be clever and taking a man out rather than just continue his run. (he would have hit him anyways but the change of run makes it a foul. idiot.)


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## DaveR (Aug 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Didn't expect a win but expect a better performance
		
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If you aspire to European football you should expect to beat Brighton at home.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2022)

A few things to take from the game today 

1. Pope is the best English GK in the league - he should be England Number 1 

2. Wilson is going to score a lot of goals if he can stay fit 

3. City look better without Grealish


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A few things to take from the game today

1. Pope is the best English GK in the league - he should be England Number 1

2. Wilson is going to score a lot of goals if he can stay fit

3. City look better without Grealish
		
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Pope and Hendo are certainly better than Pickford at this point. Maybe Ramsdale too.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Pope and Hendo are certainly better than Pickford at this point. Maybe Ramsdale too.
		
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I cant wait to see who else from the Forest squad you'll try to shoe horn into the england squad 😁😁


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I cant wait to see who else from the Forest squad you'll try to shoe horn into the england squad 😁😁
		
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Gibbs White be going to the world cup


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## 4LEX (Aug 21, 2022)

Newcastle away will be a graveyard for many teams this season. Underrated recruitment and manager. City not at their best but went through the gears when it mattered. Both sides happy with a point but what a brilliant game. No league can touch the quality and I don't think Newcastle will even finish Top 8


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Newcastle away will be a graveyard for many teams this season. Underrated recruitment and manager. City not at their best but went through the gears when it mattered. Both sides happy with a point but what a brilliant game. No league can touch the quality and I don't think Newcastle will even finish Top 8 

Click to expand...

Assumin the OG top 6 finish there, who finishes 7/8/9/10


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I cant wait to see who else from the Forest squad you'll try to shoe horn into the england squad 😁😁
		
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fundy said:



			Gibbs White be going to the world cup  

Click to expand...

🥴

None of them on early evidence. But Henderson has been every bit as good as Pope in the first few games of the season, don’t know what to tell you 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Slime (Aug 21, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			🥴

None of them on early evidence. But *Henderson* has been every bit as good as Pope in the first few games of the season, don’t know what to tell you 🤷🏻‍♂️
		
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I'd take him.


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## 4LEX (Aug 21, 2022)

Pickford will be England's #1. Southgate is loyal and Pickford has done it at two major tournaments, you don't take risks with the keeper in a major tournament.


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Assumin the OG top 6 finish there, who finishes 7/8/9/10
		
Click to expand...


Spreads have the top 5 all getting 70+ points and no one else 60!

Man U 58
Newcastle 57
Brighton 52
West Ham 48
Villa / Palace 47
Leeds 45
Leicester 44
Brentford 42
Everton, Wolves, Fulham and Saints 39
Forest 37
Bournemouth 32

so Brighton and Newcastle are top 10 then any 2 from about 8 more lol

good luck guessing who!!!!!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Pickford will be England's #1. *Southgate is loyal* and Pickford has done it at two major tournaments, you don't take risks with the keeper in a major tournament.
		
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When it suits.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			When it suits.
		
Click to expand...

He will be loyal to Pickford and Maguire and when we don’t win another World Cup we can listen to folk saying what a good job he has done getting to the semis. 😉


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Spreads have the top 5 all getting 70+ points and no one else 60!

Man U 58
Newcastle 57
Brighton 52
West Ham 48
Villa / Palace 47
Leeds 45
Leicester 44
Brentford 42
Everton, Wolves, Fulham and Saints 39
Forest 37
Bournemouth 32

so Brighton and Newcastle are top 10 then any 2 from about 8 more lol

good luck guessing who!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

This yernited side 58pts?? Yer right 🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He will be loyal to Pickford and Maguire and when we don’t win another World Cup we can listen to folk saying what a good job he has done getting to the semis. 😉
		
Click to expand...

😁😁😁


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			This yernited side 58pts?? Yer right 🤣🤣🤣
		
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Better get selling then Stu 

Think Id be a Wolves buyer at the prices


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## Stuart_C (Aug 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Better get selling then Stu 

Think Id be a Wolves buyer at the prices
		
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I might just do that😉

Wolves will struggle without MGW😁😁


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## 4LEX (Aug 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			This yernited side 58pts?? Yer right 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Utd will finsh Top 6 with over 60 points. For all the troubles they've still got a huge squad and will buy between now and the window closing. The smaller clubs will fall away when winter kicks in and injuries mount. Newcastle are the only club that can stop the top 6 realistically.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just outta interest coz I don’t know the answer to this. A two footed challenge with feet off the floor is deemed as “ player not in control so he sees red, yet both feet off floor and 1 footed challenge it’s yellow. Any reason for that. I thought it was deliberate and clumsy but dangerous no.
		
Click to expand...

Ok so imagine KBD dislocates his knee after that assault.
His playing days are over because  he can’t run anymore.
One of the best players in the world clogged by some hacker
Would your attitude to these tackles change ?
It’s going to happen sooner or later.


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## theoneandonly (Aug 21, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Ok so imagine KBD dislocates his knee after that assault.
His playing days are over because  he can’t run anymore.
One of the best players in the world clogged by some hacker
Would your attitude to these tackles change ?
It’s going to happen sooner or later.
		
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Shoulda , woulda , coulda . Yellow for a professional foul all day long. Nothing more.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Shoulda , woulda , coulda . Yellow for a professional foul all day long. Nothing more.
		
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literally every footballer I follow on Twitter was saying the same


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## Orikoru (Aug 21, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Utd will finsh Top 6 with over 60 points. For all the troubles they've still got a huge squad and will buy between now and the window closing. The smaller clubs will fall away when winter kicks in and injuries mount. Newcastle are the only club that can stop the top 6 realistically.
		
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I do a league prediction with my mates. This year I put Newcastle 6th with United 7th, and that was before the season started so not a knee jerk to MU's poor start! I've seen nothing that makes me think I got it wrong.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Ok so imagine KBD dislocates his knee after that assault.
His playing days are over because  he can’t run anymore.
One of the best players in the world clogged by some hacker
Would your attitude to these tackles change ?
It’s going to happen sooner or later.
		
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That can happen from any tackle or foul - do you want to just outlaw tackling ? Maybe heading as well ? In fact make it non contact


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## 4LEX (Aug 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I do a league prediction with my mates. This year I put Newcastle 6th with United 7th, and that was before the season started so not a knee jerk to MU's poor start! I've seen nothing that makes me think I got it wrong.
		
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It'll be close for sure! Newcastle don't have the quality upfront and Wilson is very injury prone. Utd are so volatile it's impossible to predict what will happen realistically. Makes for a good season as a neutral though!


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## Swingalot (Aug 21, 2022)

Lots of rumours Rodger’s has left Leicester……..


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That can happen from any tackle or foul - do you want to just outlaw tackling ? Maybe heading as well ? In fact make it non contact
		
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No
No
No
What a typical piece of crap from you .
No body mentioned non contact.
My views on this type of foul are well known !but at the very least you should go for the ball.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Shoulda , woulda , coulda . Yellow for a professional foul all day long. Nothing more.
		
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I would say it’s an unprofessional foul.
Your entitled to your opinion.


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## RRidges (Aug 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			knee high no attempt at the ball, red all day long for me
		
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That's certainly how I envisaged the reasoning of the Ref. I wasn't surprised to see a Red awarded and was somewhat surprised to see VAR overturn it. Probably the worst Yellow that we'll see this year.


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## RRidges (Aug 21, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Ok so imagine KBD dislocates his knee after that assault.
His playing days are over because  he can’t run anymore.
One of the best players in the world clogged by some hacker
Would your attitude to these tackles change ?
It’s going to happen sooner or later.
		
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I'm inclined to think that PL Football has crossed, or is on, a line where too many tackles are actually _meant_ to injure players - at least to sufficient degree where their performance is restricted. It's something that 'the authorities' have to monitor and state to Refs so that, as a group, they can make consistent rulings. Sure, it's a physical game, but when opposition policy is to use the rules/interpretations to reduce opposition physical effectiveness by injuring them, then it crosses a boundary imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			No
No
No
What a typical piece of crap from you .
No body mentioned non contact.
My views on this type of foul are well known !but at the very least you should go for the ball.
		
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It’s just a foul ? If it’s designed to deliberately injure someone then it’s a red card , if denies a goalscoring opportunity then it’s a red card , other than that then it’s a yellow

A push off the ball could injure someone badly - do you want that as a red as well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

Can someone point out the howler Pickford has had for England? 45 caps I believe, still waiting for the game where he has let them down.

I would also say, look at how he has played for Everton since January or so. At his best and he has cut out the brain fades which happened when teams, or fans, got under his skin. Pope is excellent, may well be better, but keepers rarely get changed unless the incumbent makes mistakes. 

There are bigger problems for England than the goalkeeper position, where there is no actual problem.


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can someone point out the howler Pickford has had for England? 45 caps I believe, still waiting for the game where he has let them down.

I would also say, look at how he has played for Everton since January or so. At his best and he has cut out the brain fades which happened when teams, or fans, got under his skin. Pope is excellent, may well be better, but keepers rarely get changed unless the incumbent makes mistakes.

There are bigger problems for England than the goalkeeper position, where there is no actual problem.
		
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Pope is just a better keeper than Pickford. It's that simple for me. You're supposed to pick your best players aren't you? I hate this argument that he's played well for England - that doesn't make him a different guy. More than half his England games he'll have nothing to do, but if he's liable to make a mistake, which he is, that could come at any time - he's not immune from it happening in an England shirt. Pope is the best English goalie and he should be in the team.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			literally every footballer I follow on Twitter was saying the same
		
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I think there is a degree of conditioning there. It's always happened so what is the problem 🤷‍♂️.

Remember all the pro's, ex pro's complaining about red cards for swinging arms when jumping? They were outraged, couldn't understand it, said it was impossible. Now it's accepted, apart from some old pro's still 🙄.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Pope is just a better keeper than Pickford. It's that simple for me. You're supposed to pick your best players aren't you? I hate this argument that he's played well for England - that doesn't make him a different guy. More than half his England games he'll have nothing to do, but if he's liable to make a mistake, which he is, that could come at any time - he's not immune from it happening in an England shirt. Pope is the best English goalie and he should be in the team/QUOTE]
45 games, no mistakes. People want him changed but there is no basis for it in an England shirt.
		
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## theoneandonly (Aug 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would say it’s an unprofessional foul.
Your entitled to your opinion.
		
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What opinion ? I just double checked and he definitely was given a yellow card.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Pope is just a better keeper than Pickford. It's that simple for me. You're supposed to pick your best players aren't you? I hate this argument that he's played well for England - that doesn't make him a different guy. More than half his England games he'll have nothing to do, but if he's liable to make a mistake, which he is, that could come at any time - he's not immune from it happening in an England shirt. Pope is the best English goalie and he should be in the team.
		
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It depends of you are just picking players based on their ability on paper, and ignoring the effect such a change could have on mentality and team dynamics.

Pickford is a good keeper. To be fair, even when he has made mistakes he warns to have the sort of mentality that it doesn't weigh him down. He just seems to get on with it.

Let us say you replace him with another keeper, who in some people's opinions is better on paper. There is now much added pressure on this keeper, as they have replaced a guy who has been No.1 for ages and not let England down. Does that play on their mind. Is there extra fear they will make a mistake and then Southgate's decision torn to shreds in the media? It is a big risk. Furthermore, Pickford may well have built up a good relationship with the England defenders, and they know exactly what to expect from Pickford. Again, bring in another guy, it could change the goalkeeper defence relationship for the worse. 

It could simply be a case of if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 22, 2022)

Whether you think Trippier should have seen red or not, I thought it was unusual VAR intervened. I thought thet only did so when they were sure an obvious mistake had been made. Not sure this decision was an obvious mistake. Although rare, I have seen red cards for that type of challenge before, I think Rangers had one at weekend. Could the VAR be certain Trippier wasn't endangering the opponent? I felt it would simply be a case of one of those where, if the ref gives yellow or red, the VAR would simply leave it alone.

Especially considering Stones' challenge in box. Felt it odd that VAR was happy to intervene on the Trippier incident, yet oddly silent when Stone's took out an opponent in the box. 

I assume the VAR is allowed toilet breaks during the game, and they just happen to be missing sometimes, and then when they get back they intervene on something else just for the sake of it, to prove they are still there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Whether you think Trippier should have seen red or not, I thought it was unusual VAR intervened. I thought thet only did so when they were sure an obvious mistake had been made. Not sure this decision was an obvious mistake. Although rare, I have seen red cards for that type of challenge before, I think Rangers had one at weekend. Could the VAR be certain Trippier wasn't endangering the opponent? I felt it would simply be a case of one of those where, if the ref gives yellow or red, the VAR would simply leave it alone.

Especially considering Stones' challenge in box. Felt it odd that VAR was happy to intervene on the Trippier incident, yet oddly silent when Stone's took out an opponent in the box.

I assume the VAR is allowed toilet breaks during the game, and they just happen to be missing sometimes, and then when they get back they intervene on something else just for the sake of it, to prove they are still there.
		
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VAR checks all Red Card incidents and going by the letter of the law it was only a red card offence if the player looked to endanger his opponent or excessive force - hence why the ref was asked to check to ensure he was ok with that 

All the people within the sport and media on social media were saying that was a perfect example of when VAR is used


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## BiMGuy (Aug 22, 2022)

Didn’t we have the discussion about Pickford before the Euros? And he was the best keeper there.


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

Can't believe people are discussing the Trippier card, that was a yellow card all day long. For the ref to give a red he must have had a bad view of it and maybe thought he'd gone with two feet, or studs up on the knee or something. Replay showed it was nothing more than a late tackle that tripped him. Obviously a yellow.


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It depends of you are just picking players based on their ability on paper, and ignoring the effect such a change could have on mentality and team dynamics.

Pickford is a good keeper. To be fair, even when he has made mistakes he warns to have the sort of mentality that it doesn't weigh him down. He just seems to get on with it.

Let us say you replace him with another keeper, who in some people's opinions is better on paper. There is now much added pressure on this keeper, as they have replaced a guy who has been No.1 for ages and not let England down. Does that play on their mind. Is there extra fear they will make a mistake and then Southgate's decision torn to shreds in the media? It is a big risk. Furthermore, Pickford may well have built up a good relationship with the England defenders, and they know exactly what to expect from Pickford. Again, bring in another guy, it could change the goalkeeper defence relationship for the worse.

It could simply be a case of if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
		
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I just thought the England team was supposed be selected by who is playing well week in week out, i.e., for their clubs. Not that you get an England shirt and it's yours for life until you retire no matter what. This goes for Maguire as well as Pickford. Loads of better options out there. By the time the World Cup arrives, there could easily be three better English keepers than Pickford let alone one. Maguire also shouldn't be in the squad based on his last two years, let alone recent form.


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## BiMGuy (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I just thought the England team was supposed be selected by who is playing well week in week out, i.e., for their clubs. Not that you get an England shirt and it's yours for life until you retire no matter what. This goes for Maguire as well as Pickford. Loads of better options out there. By the time the World Cup arrives, there could easily be three better English keepers than Pickford let alone one. Maguire also shouldn't be in the squad based on his last two years, let alone recent form.
		
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True, but you also have to pick players the can play in the style/system you want to play, and that complement each other. Pope is a good shot stopper, he doesn’t offer what Pickford does in other areas. 

There are quite a few players who you would assume are already picked that are either not playing, or not playing well. At this point Southgate isn’t going to pick an entirely new team based on current form. 

That said. Maguire shouldn’t even be allowed to watch the games just in case…


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Can't believe people are discussing the Trippier card, that was a yellow card all day long. For the ref to give a red he must have had a bad view of it and maybe thought he'd gone with two feet, or studs up on the knee or something. Replay showed it was nothing more than a late tackle that tripped him. Obviously a yellow.
		
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It wasn't a late tackle. A late tackle is where someone attempts to get the ball and just misses it. Trippier was not attempting to get the ball, that was never in the equation. He was out and out trying to stop KDB, there was no subtlety in what he did.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I just thought the England team was supposed be selected by who is playing well week in week out, i.e., for their clubs. Not that you get an England shirt and it's yours for life until you retire no matter what. This goes for Maguire as well as Pickford. Loads of better options out there. By the time the World Cup arrives, there could easily be three better English keepers than Pickford let alone one. Maguire also shouldn't be in the squad based on his last two years, let alone recent form.
		
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https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-southgate-idUKKBN15U0J1

Southgate made it clear 5yrs ago selection for England depends on club form, He dropped Trent based on his club form but has continued to pick Maguire,Pickford and a few others despite their horrific club form/performances.

The last 12 months should’ve been the time to give other players games instead of throwing them into tournament football. Maguire and Pickford will start regardless.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-southgate-idUKKBN15U0J1

Southgate made it clear 5yrs ago selection for England depends on club form, He dropped Trent based on his club form but has continued to pick Maguire,Pickford and a few others despite their horrific club form/performances.

The last 12 months should’ve been the time to give other players games instead of throwing them into tournament football. Maguire and Pickford will start regardless.
		
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I'm not sure why Pickford is getting lumped in with Maguire. Pickford is in good form, he is playing well, his confidence is up. He isn't making mistakes, hasn't for quite some time. Maguire however..................


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## Stuart_C (Aug 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not sure why Pickford is getting lumped in with Maguire. Pickford is in good form, he is playing well, his confidence is up. He isn't making mistakes, hasn't for quite some time. Maguire however..................
		
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Have you purposely forgotten the last 2 seasons at Everton when his performances were littered with errors? He’s always confident, a bit too confident at times.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Ok so imagine KBD dislocates his knee after that assault.
His playing days are over because  he can’t run anymore.
One of the best players in the world clogged by some hacker
Would your attitude to these tackles change ?
It’s going to happen sooner or later.
		
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Personally I have seen hundreds of tackles where City have stopped the opposition from breaking like KDB did yesterday. 99% of them have been professional fouls. The other 1% have been like Trippiers yesterday. He has admitted he did a professional foul and admitted he would do it again. That I don’t have a problem with. But for me, as soon as both feet are off the floor he is out of control and has an early bath.


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It wasn't a late tackle. A late tackle is where someone attempts to get the ball and just misses it. Trippier was not attempting to get the ball, that was never in the equation. He was out and out trying to stop KDB, there was no subtlety in what he did.
		
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It was in a way, he was too late to make a tackle that wins the ball so he just tripped him instead.  A foul isn't a red card just because it was deliberate. It happens every single game. When we played Chelsea last week, James rugby tackled Son to the floor to stop a counter attack. Obviously deliberate, but it's a yellow card.



BiMGuy said:



			True, but you also have to pick players the can play in the style/system you want to play, and that complement each other. Pope is a good shot stopper, he doesn’t offer what Pickford does in other areas.
		
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Don't set me off, that's another thing I hate. Keepers and centre backs being selected on the basis that they can knock a few passes around - their jobs used to be to keep the ball out of our net first and foremost! The standard of defending across the whole Premier League is worse than 15 years ago since you don't have any of those brick wall no-nonsense defenders anymore. The modern defender is Stones, flimsy and always has a mistake in him, but he can do a Cruyff turn and pass it like your standard defensive midfielder. Woop-ti-doo. Then you've got Maguire who _thinks _he can be a ball-playing defender and trips over himself.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 22, 2022)

Southgate should’ve just said “I’ll only drop players if I’ve got a suitable replacement“ because that’s what he’s actually done.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Have you purposely forgotten the last 2 seasons at Everton when his performances were littered with errors? He’s always confident, a bit too confident at times.
		
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I think he has been solid from about January onwards. Before then he has been excellent for England, had the odd brain fade for Everton. I wouldn't say littered, no more than most keepers and better than the majority in the PL. None of that for some time though.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VAR checks all Red Card incidents and going by the letter of the law it was only a red card offence if the player looked to *endanger his opponent* or excessive force - hence why the ref was asked to check to ensure he was ok with that

All the people within the sport and media on social media were saying that was a perfect example of when VAR is used
		
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As has been pointed out, there is no possible way to definitively say that "tackle" did NOT endanger the opponent though. IF DeBruyne had been injured in that foul, would the red card have stood? If so, does a red card depend on the outcome? As I said, there have been examples of red cards before where a player has quite clearly taken out an opponent running at speed. Not 2 footed, leg breaking challenges. But, still dangerous and no attempt to win the ball.

Personally, I'm not saying this type of challenge should be a red card, as it is often put down as a professional foul. But, I'm still surprised the VAR asked for a review, as they must have been convinced that the opponent was in never any danger from such a challenge.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



*I just thought the England team was supposed be selected by who is playing well week in week out, i.e., for their clubs*. Not that you get an England shirt and it's yours for life until you retire no matter what. This goes for Maguire as well as Pickford. Loads of better options out there. By the time the World Cup arrives, there could easily be three better English keepers than Pickford let alone one. Maguire also shouldn't be in the squad based on his last two years, let alone recent form.
		
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Not that simple. the manager picks the team that he thinks has the best chance of winning games. Players can dip in and out of form. If Harry Kane only scores 2 or 3 goals between now and November, whilst Watkins, Calvert Lewin, Ings and Bamford all get at least 7 or 8 goals each, if not more, I can guarantee you that Kane will still be first choice striker for England at the World Cup. Ignoring some biased fans opinions who are anti-Spurs and/or pro their own players, fans are bound to agree with this decision.

Southgate obviously believes Pickford is his No.1 at this point. It also is important to show some faith and trust on players to get the best out of them. If you just chop and change every game, based on form at clubs (where players are probably playing in different systems anyway, with different players obviously) you are just going to get a mess. Probably end up with different players during each international game window, and trying to get the newbies to work on a system from scratch. Little point in that, when you have a player on the bench who knows exactly how to play in that system, and has done it well every time they've been asked to play in the past.


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Not that simple. the manager picks the team that he thinks has the best chance of winning games. Players can dip in and out of form. If Harry Kane only scores 2 or 3 goals between now and November, whilst Watkins, Calvert Lewin, Ings and Bamford all get at least 7 or 8 goals each, if not more, I can guarantee you that Kane will still be first choice striker for England at the World Cup. Ignoring some biased fans opinions who are anti-Spurs and/or pro their own players, fans are bound to agree with this decision.

Southgate obviously believes Pickford is his No.1 at this point. It also is important to show some faith and trust on players to get the best out of them. If you just chop and change every game, based on form at clubs (where players are probably playing in different systems anyway, with different players obviously) you are just going to get a mess. Probably end up with different players during each international game window, and trying to get the newbies to work on a system from scratch. Little point in that, when you have a player on the bench who knows exactly how to play in that system, and has done it well every time they've been asked to play in the past.
		
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Kane example is poor, since he's clearly proven world class and streets ahead of the other options. If you think that of Pickford or Maguire then your head needs checking. 

Whatever, I'm sure people will keep spouting this 'he never lets England down' rhetoric until he drops a clanger in the World Cup semi final and gets us knocked out. His only 'strength' seems to be that he can kick it really far, so let's hope we can score off one of his long balls to justify his selection.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Kane example is poor, since he's clearly proven world class and streets ahead of the other options. If you think that of Pickford or Maguire then your head needs checking.

Whatever, I'm sure people will keep spouting this 'he never lets England down' rhetoric until he drops a clanger in the World Cup semi final and gets us knocked out. *His only 'strength' seems to be that he can kick it really far, so let's hope we can score off one of his long balls to justify his selection.*

Click to expand...

Like Everton did in the 88th minute at the weekend 

but in fairness, if what you're saying does happen (he lets us down the semi-final) - you'll probably see him dropped for the 2024 euros. Every cloud and that.


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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-southgate-idUKKBN15U0J1

Southgate made it clear 5yrs ago selection for England depends on club form, He dropped Trent based on his club form but has continued to pick Maguire,Pickford and a few others despite their horrific club form/performances.

The last 12 months should’ve been the time to give other players games instead of throwing them into tournament football. Maguire and Pickford will start regardless.
		
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We all know Southgate (and most England managers) pick their mates for the team. If he don’t like the player, he won’t pick him.
It will never change.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Like Everton did in the 88th minute at the weekend 

but in fairness, if what you're saying does happen (he lets us down the semi-final) - you'll probably see him dropped for the 2024 euros. Every cloud and that. 

Click to expand...

He has played in 45 games for England, 2 semi finals of major tournaments. and has still not let England down in any game. I'm not understanding why people are so keen for him to have a mare. Of all the places in the England team that need scrutiny, keeper really is not one of them.

If his form does drop then Pope and Henderson are ready made replacements. Not happened yet though.

(kick it really far, and to his own player  )


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He has played in 45 games for England, 2 semi finals of major tournaments. and has still not let England down in any game. I'm not understanding why people are so keen for him to have a mare. Of all the places in the England team that need scrutiny, keeper really is not one of them.

If his form does drop then Pope and Henderson are ready made replacements. Not happened yet though.

(kick it really far, and to his own player )
		
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Pope has never let England down either. It's an irrelevant point. Pickford has certainly had slip-ups for England but has got away with them. It is only down to luck that he hasn't cost us a serious game. He's not very good. What you're saying is like turning down a free Mercedes because your old budget Skoda 'hasn't let you down yet'. It's nonsense, you'd just take the better car.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Pope has never let England down either. It's an irrelevant point. Pickford has certainly had slip-ups for England but has got away with them. It is only down to luck that he hasn't cost us a serious game. He's not very good. What you're saying is like turning down a free Mercedes because your old budget Skoda 'hasn't let you down yet'. It's nonsense, you'd just take the better car.
		
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Any difference is marginal and so marginal to the manager that he is happy to leave Pickford where he is as he fits what he wants from a keeper. I'm not seeing the great disadvantage of keeping Pickford.

Pope has 8 England caps so it is not as though Southgate has not looked at him. Henderson couldn't get a game last season so there was no way he could be selected. Unless he has a dip in form, unless he lets in some howlers through the season, there is no reason to change him.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He has played in 45 games for England, 2 semi finals of major tournaments. and has still not let England down in any game. I'm not understanding why people are so keen for him to have a mare. Of all the places in the England team that need scrutiny, keeper really is not one of them.

If his form does drop then Pope and Henderson are ready made replacements. Not happened yet though.

(kick it really far, and to his own player )
		
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I don't disagree by the way...a bit like Slabhead, he's always performed well for England, despite having some shortcomings at club level. If anything having the likes of Pope, Hendo and Ramsdale chasing his place, will hopefully make him up his game in time for the World Cup.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 22, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Lots of rumours Rodger’s has left Leicester……..
		
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Spoke to a mate last night who asked if I'd take Brendan Rodgers over Moyes.

I said that right now I'd take Ginger Rogers over Moyes. 😆


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Spoke to a mate last night who asked if I'd take Brendan Rodgers over Moyes.

I said that right now I'd take Ginger Rogers over Moyes. 😆
		
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Moyes out already is it 😂


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

I'm sure Pickford and Maguire will still be starting, unfortunately. I just hate this argument that they play well for England if not for their clubs. Just because they're wearing a different shirt it doesn't make them a different player, they still have the exact same likelihood of making a blunder. But the fact is 80% of England games are easier than a typical Premier League game, particularly for defensive players. Slow clap for not dropping the ball against the likes of Kosovo, Albania, Bulgaria, Panama, etc.


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## BiMGuy (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sure Pickford and Maguire will still be starting, unfortunately. I just hate this argument that they play well for England if not for their clubs. Just because they're wearing a different shirt it doesn't make them a different player, they still have the exact same likelihood of making a blunder. But the fact is 80% of England games are easier than a typical Premier League game, particularly for defensive players. Slow clap for not dropping the ball against the likes of Kosovo, Albania, Bulgaria, Panama, etc.
		
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shall we also slow clap every time Kane scores another pen against one of those teams? Or misses a sitter?


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## Fade and Die (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Moyes out already is it 😂
		
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It won’t happen as the board have let him spend over 100Mil (🤯) but he certainly seems to be trying to disprove Einstein’s quote re a fool.

I know what team, and how we will play next week and the week after and the week after that. Every manager in the league knows. 

Truth of the matter is his whole philosophy is flawed, counter attacking football, allowing possession to the opposition without a hard press, well we all saw yesterday the outcome. 
The man is as flexible as a re-bar and idea's outdated. 
He didn't replace a striker for 18 months and is now trying to sign anyone who is stupid enough to come, the sight of Cornet whispering something to Scamacca was hilarious, "what the hell have we done " sprang to mind.

A change of formation and mindset is needed and needed now.


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			shall we also slow clap every time Kane scores another pen against one of those teams? Or misses a sitter?
		
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Again a stupid argument because he scores against the best teams in the Premier League as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			It won’t happen as the board have let him spend over 100Mil (🤯) but he certainly seems to be trying to disprove Einstein’s quote re a fool.

I know what team, and how we will play next week and the week after and the week after that. Every manager in the league knows.

Truth of the matter is his whole philosophy is flawed, counter attacking football, allowing possession to the opposition without a hard press, well we all saw yesterday the outcome.
The man is as flexible as a re-bar and idea's outdated.
He didn't replace a striker for 18 months and is now trying to sign anyone who is stupid enough to come, the sight of Cornet whispering something to Scamacca was hilarious, "what the hell have we done " sprang to mind.

A change of formation and mindset is needed and needed now.
		
Click to expand...

Have you all not been through this before - Moyes does a good job for you , expectations go higher , when he doesn’t reach them you demand he leaves - it’s already happened with Moyes , made the mistake of getting rid of him once before


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## BiMGuy (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Again a stupid argument because he scores against the best teams in the Premier League as well.
		
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We are talking about playing for England


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## Swango1980 (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Kane example is poor, since he's clearly proven world class and streets ahead of the other options. If you think that of Pickford or Maguire then your head needs checking.

Whatever, I'm sure people will keep spouting this 'he never lets England down' rhetoric until he drops a clanger in the World Cup semi final and gets us knocked out. His only 'strength' seems to be that he can kick it really far, so let's hope we can score off one of his long balls to justify his selection.
		
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I never mentioned Maguire in this particular discussion. However, it is the job of the England manager to pick the team of players that gives him the best chance of success over the long term. Southgate has chosen Pickford. Others may choose Pope. There is no right answer that 100% of people would agree with. But, the logic for picking Pickford seems sound.

There may well be a mistake in Pickford going forward. But, that is pretty much true for any player. You can't guarantee Pope will make none. And, given Pickford seems to have embraced the position as England's No 1, by doing a good job, I see no logical reason why Southgate would want to mess about with that


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## pokerjoke (Aug 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I never mentioned Maguire in this particular discussion. However, it it the job of the England manager to pick the team of players that gives him the best chance of success over the long term. Southgate has chosen Pickford. Others may choose Pope. There is no right answer that 100% of people would agree with. But, the logic for picking Pickford seems sound.

There may well be a mistake in Pickford going forward. But, that is pretty much true for any player. You can't guarantee Pope will make none. And, given Pickford seems to have embraced the position as England's No 1, by doing a good job, I see now logical reason why Southgate would want to mess about with that
		
Click to expand...

Spot on


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## Fade and Die (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have you all not been through this before - Moyes does a good job for you , expectations go higher , when he doesn’t reach them you demand he leaves - it’s already happened with Moyes , made the mistake of getting rid of him once before
		
Click to expand...


Its the nature of football (and football fans) if you don't make progress every year you are going backwards as everyone of your near peers are making progress. 

Things can go stale at a football club, players stop playing for or believing in the manager, it happened before with Billic and Pelligrini, and both times Moyes came in and freshened it up. Now the same seems to be happening with Moyse, the previous team spirit and general togetherness that shone through the last couple of seasons seems to have disappeared,  Moyse is quick to criticise his players and blame others for his shortcomings. 

I.e.   Commenting on Thilo Kehrer Moyes said:' I don't think he was ready to start the game and he certainly wasn't if you are talking about physically

Which begs the question why didn't you play Ogbonna then you halfwit?

Also blaming Mark Noble for retiring as the reason for the lack of leadership on the pitch! Its obviously going to be different when a senior pro hangs up his boots but you have to adapt and move on and he only played a few games last year so I really cannot accept that reason.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Its the nature of football (and football fans) if you don't make progress every year you are going backwards as everyone of your near peers are making progress.

Things can go stale at a football club, players stop playing for or believing in the manager, it happened before with Billic and Pelligrini, and both times Moyes came in and freshened it up. Now the same seems to be happening with Moyse, the previous team spirit and general togetherness that shone through the last couple of seasons seems to have disappeared,  Moyse is quick to criticise his players and blame others for his shortcomings.

I.e.   Commenting on Thilo Kehrer Moyes said:' I don't think he was ready to start the game and he certainly wasn't if you are talking about physically

Which begs the question why didn't you play Ogbonna then you halfwit?

Also blaming Mark Noble for retiring as the reason for the lack of leadership on the pitch! Its obviously going to be different when a senior pro hangs up his boots but you have to adapt and move on and he only played a few games last year so I really cannot accept that reason.
		
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It’s a couple games into the season but then I think you were critical of Moyes last season so I’m guessing you have never been a fan of him ? 

West Ham under Moyes will finish in those 6-10 spots each year and I’m guessing that’s about right , the club chased other managers and it nearly cost them , it was the same as Everton


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Its the nature of football (and football fans) if you don't make progress every year you are going backwards as everyone of your near peers are making progress.

Things can go stale at a football club, players stop playing for or believing in the manager, it happened before with Billic and Pelligrini, and both times Moyes came in and freshened it up. Now the same seems to be happening with Moyse, the previous team spirit and general togetherness that shone through the last couple of seasons seems to have disappeared,  Moyse is quick to criticise his players and blame others for his shortcomings.

I.e.   Commenting on Thilo Kehrer Moyes said:' I don't think he was ready to start the game and he certainly wasn't if you are talking about physically

Which begs the question why didn't you play Ogbonna then you halfwit?

Also blaming Mark Noble for retiring as the reason for the lack of leadership on the pitch! Its obviously going to be different when a senior pro hangs up his boots but you have to adapt and move on and he only played a few games last year so I really cannot accept that reason.
		
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You could always put someone else in charge then bring back Moyes next year to save you from relegation a third time. 

Funnily enough I did see another instance of him calling out a player today: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ands-better/&usg=AOvVaw0laXIC3_E5DImQ3OwwlAnM


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			You could always put someone else in charge then bring back Moyes next year to save you from relegation a third time. 

*Funnily enough I did see another instance of him calling out a player today: **https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi4m9uKwdr5AhW1SkEAHXeqB1gQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https://www.hammers.news/club-news/david-moyes-says-he-has-not-been-overly-impressed-by-west-ham-summer-signing-flynn-downes-so-far-and-demands-better/&usg=AOvVaw0laXIC3_E5DImQ3OwwlAnM*

Click to expand...

Almost never works calling out players publicly like this. I like Moyes but his man management sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.


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## pendodave (Aug 22, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Its the nature of football (and football fans) if you don't make progress every year you are going backwards as everyone of your near peers are making progress.
		
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I think this is the most significant issue, and applies to last year as much as this one. 
No real attempt was made to build on the previous season. We had 1 forward for the entire campaign, and after Christmas were running on fumes. Trying to patch it up a bit now is too late. 

Hopefully the new blood lifts them to the giddy heights of 17th by next April. 

Luckily, anyone over 10 years old will be entirely familiar with the experience and won't let it get them down too much.


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Its the nature of football (and football fans) if you don't make progress every year you are going backwards as everyone of your near peers are making progress.
		
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Fans that think that way are idiots!


Fade and Die said:



			Things can go stale at a football club, players stop playing for or believing in the manager, it happened before with Billic and Pelligrini, and both times Moyes came in and freshened it up. Now the same seems to be happening with Moyse, the previous team spirit and general togetherness that shone through the last couple of seasons seems to have disappeared,  Moyse is quick to criticise his players and blame others for his shortcomings.
		
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Fans, some of whom can't even spell a managers name correctly, generally haven't got a clue about what goes on at 'their' club and can't see further than from the last game to the next one! I'm pretty certain Noble's off (match) field persona/influence was more important than any on-field one. After all, he only rarely, if ever, played a full game in his last season.
The draw hasn't been kind to Hammers but they'll hopefully get some sort of result Sunday. As LPP posted, realistic expectation is likely to be 6th/7th at best. To me, they need another 'quality' 'Antonio level' striker. He seems the major threat/target, but as it is, he's too easily countered while the others aren't a big enough threat to change that.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			You could always put someone else in charge then bring back Moyes next year to save you from relegation a third time. 

Funnily enough I did see another instance of him calling out a player today: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi4m9uKwdr5AhW1SkEAHXeqB1gQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https://www.hammers.news/club-news/david-moyes-says-he-has-not-been-overly-impressed-by-west-ham-summer-signing-flynn-downes-so-far-and-demands-better/&usg=AOvVaw0laXIC3_E5DImQ3OwwlAnM

Click to expand...


It started at the end of last season when the exhausted players started to fade....

David Moyes slams players for lack of ‘desire’ as West Ham miss out on Europa League | Evening Standard 

Believe this was when things started going wrong for him. Its also the same time that Stuart Pearce left the club. I don't know if the 2 things are connected.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 22, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Its the nature of football (and football fans) if you don't make progress every year you are going backwards as everyone of your near peers are making progress. 

Things can go stale at a football club, players stop playing for or believing in the manager, it happened before with Billic and Pelligrini, and both times Moyes came in and freshened it up. Now the same seems to be happening with Moyse, the previous team spirit and general togetherness that shone through the last couple of seasons seems to have disappeared,  Moyse is quick to criticise his players and blame others for his shortcomings. 

I.e.   Commenting on Thilo Kehrer Moyes said:' I don't think he was ready to start the game and he certainly wasn't if you are talking about physically

Which begs the question why didn't you play Ogbonna then you halfwit?

Also blaming Mark Noble for retiring as the reason for the lack of leadership on the pitch! Its obviously going to be different when a senior pro hangs up his boots but you have to adapt and move on and he only played a few games last year so I really cannot accept that reason.
		
Click to expand...

Because ogbonna Is returning from a serious long term injury and played midweek, isn't ready to start yet 

The new guy wasn't ideal to start yet , Moyes likes to bring players in slowly but lack of options means he just came straight in.

To say the players aren't playing for Moyes is very knee jerk

It's 3 games. City , forest (their return to top flight after many years) and Brighton 

City are a machine 
Forest was a fairy tail, one which another day we would have won 4-1 without disallowed goal, missing a pen and smashing the wood work .. fine margins 
Brighton are a very good side and are our body team 

I only had us down for 3 points until this period ...

Yesterday was bad but let's see what next Sunday brings.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 22, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Because ogbonna Is returning from a serious long term injury and played midweek, isn't ready to start yet

The new guy wasn't ideal to start yet , Moyes likes to bring players in slowly but lack of options means he just came straight in.

To say the players aren't playing for Moyes is very knee jerk

It's 3 games. City , forest (their return to top flight after many years) and Brighton

City are a machine
Forest was a fairy tail, one which another day we would have won 4-1 without disallowed goal, missing a pen and smashing the wood work .. fine margins
Brighton are a very good side and are our body team

I only had us down for 3 points until this period ...

Yesterday was bad but let's see what next Sunday brings.
		
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Its not just the 3 games though is it. Since Christmas we have only won 7 games in the league. 

We play the same old players in the same old positions. Man City said they knew just how we would play and countered it easily.

If you saw the game on Sunday watch what Potter did in the 60th minute when silly bollocks made our subs. It was like he knew exactly what Moyes was doing, made a swift change himself, switched two players around and bang! 2-0 game over!
Stupid boy was still scratching his arse when we were putting the ball down for the restart. Too late Dave he's rumped you again.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s just a foul ? If it’s designed to deliberately injure someone then it’s a red card , if denies a goalscoring opportunity then it’s a red card , other than that then it’s a yellow

A push off the ball could injure someone badly - do you want that as a red as well.
		
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There you go again.
I am talking about a professional foul ,you know that.
It’s just my opinion, you can have a different one that’s fine.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can someone point out the howler Pickford has had for England? 45 caps I believe, still waiting for the game where he has let them down.

I would also say, look at how he has played for Everton since January or so. At his best and he has cut out the brain fades which happened when teams, or fans, got under his skin. Pope is excellent, may well be better, but keepers rarely get changed unless the incumbent makes mistakes.

There are bigger problems for England than the goalkeeper position, where there is no actual problem.
		
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It’s strange that Pope is being lorded after a game where he conceded three goals!
Pickford has played well for England and GS won’t want to change that imo.


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That can happen from any tackle or foul - do you want to just outlaw tackling ? Maybe heading as well ? In fact make it non contact
		
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That wasn't a tackle! It was a deliberate take-down imo. As close to Serious Foul Play/Violent Conduct as we are likely to see this year where a Red Card is not issued imo! I was not surprised that a Red Card was initially shown!


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s strange that Pope is being lorded after a game where he conceded three goals!
Pickford has played well for England and GS won’t want to change that imo.
		
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Was Pope the direct cause of any of those goals though?


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## RichA (Aug 22, 2022)

RRidges said:



			That wasn't a tackle! It was a deliberate take-down imo. As close to Serious Foul Play/Violent Conduct as we are likely to see this year where a Red Card is not issued imo! I was not surprised that a Red Card was initially shown!
		
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Yep. I think it was way worse than the Spurs v Chelsea hair pull that lots of people were angry about this time last week.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2022)

RRidges said:



			Was Pope the direct cause of any of those goals though?
		
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Yes he never saved them 
How many did Pickford let in though.
It’s chalk and cheese and the only one who decides is GS.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2022)

RRidges said:



			That wasn't a tackle! It was a deliberate take-down imo. As close to Serious Foul Play/Violent Conduct as we are likely to see this year where a Red Card is not issued imo! I was not surprised that a Red Card was initially shown!
		
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Yes it was and he actually admitted it on MOTD.


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

RichA said:



			Yep. I think it was way worse than the Spurs v Chelsea hair pull that lots of people were angry about this time last week.
		
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Agreed - at least in the specific possible consequences.
Though the fact that a goal was scored subsequently - and the later change of mind of VAR Mike Dean - elevated that particular ruling.
FWIW. I think hair-pulling should be specifically added to the list of fouls/cards. The massive increase in Ladies football participation will provide more examples imo. I'm not certain whether there's any justification, so Sending Off offence would be where I'd place it.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 22, 2022)

Really looking forward to tonight’s bottom table bunfight and it being incident free and perfectly refereed. 🍿


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

RRidges said:



			That wasn't a tackle! It was a deliberate take-down imo. As close to Serious Foul Play/Violent Conduct as we are likely to see this year where a Red Card is not issued imo! I was not surprised that a Red Card was initially shown!
		
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It’s nowhere near violent conduct 🤦‍♂️ Or serious foul play

It’s the sort of tackle that Fernandino perfected each match


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s nowhere near violent conduct 🤦‍♂️ Or serious foul play

It’s the sort of tackle that Fernandino* perfected *each match
		
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Extract from Daily Mail (yeah not a great soure!).
Start:
Jamie Carragher wrote: 'That Trippier tackle is going to be a red in the future. Its not a leg breaker, but why should a player be able to take someone out at knee height with no intention of winning the ball??'

@LFC4LIFENET wrote on Twitter: 'Very surprised the Trippier ‘tackle’ was changed from red to a yellow'

Another supporter agreed, writing: 'I simply don't understand PL refereeing. That is a clear and uncontroversial red card. Trippier f***ing jumps and kicks him in the knee at full sprint on a counter, which is both dangerous and stops a promising attack. How is a yellow fair.
End:
Who's Fernandino?
I think the difference with that one and the Fernandinho (presumably) ones I've seen is that Fernandinho's intended first contact was the ball! So often, as you state, perfected!
Tripper's was nowhere near the ball, and I doubt was ever intended to be the ball!

But the old saying about opinions and ani applies!


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 22, 2022)

Is it the end for Benin's Squirrels?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/62635050

Look away Slime, look away.


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is it the end for Benin's Squirrels?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/62635050

Look away Slime, look away.

Click to expand...

Does this now mean they cheat? Or, worse still if urban dictionary definitions are used...Cheets? Note: I looked the latter up; it wasn't something I knew! 
FWIW, there's a South African Rugby team named The Cheetahs already.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

RRidges said:



			Extract from Daily Mail (yeah not a great soure!).
Start:
Jamie Carragher wrote: 'That Trippier tackle is going to be a red in the future. Its not a leg breaker, but why should a player be able to take someone out at knee height with no intention of winning the ball??'

@LFC4LIFENET wrote on Twitter: 'Very surprised the Trippier ‘tackle’ was changed from red to a yellow'

Another supporter agreed, writing: 'I simply don't understand PL refereeing. That is a clear and uncontroversial red card. Trippier f***ing jumps and kicks him in the knee at full sprint on a counter, which is both dangerous and stops a promising attack. How is a yellow fair.
End:
Who's Fernandino?
I think the difference with that one and the Fernandinho (presumably) ones I've seen is that Fernandinho's intended first contact was the ball! So often, as you state, perfected!
Tripper's was nowhere near the ball, and I doubt was ever intended to be the ball!

But the old saying about opinions and ani applies!
		
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This article ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-Trippiers-dismissal-Kevin-Bruyne-tackle.html

why didn’t you also post the multiple comments that said it wasn’t a red and Var worked well 🤷‍♂️

And Fernandino on many occasions was nowhere near the ball - he was the master of the tactical foul to stop many attack


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## Piece (Aug 22, 2022)

Rashford gets nod over Ronaldo...


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## pokerjoke (Aug 22, 2022)

Finally a manager with some balls dropping big players.
Big call
Hope it works for him,poo or bust.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This article ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-Trippiers-dismissal-Kevin-Bruyne-tackle.html

why didn’t you also post the multiple comments that said it wasn’t a red and Var worked well 🤷‍♂️

And Fernandino on many occasions was nowhere near the ball - he was the master of the tactical foul to stop many attack







Click to expand...

Let’s be honest every debate on hear is 50/50
That’s why when people go on for days debating the same thing over and over,they are basically wasting their lives.


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This article ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-Trippiers-dismissal-Kevin-Bruyne-tackle.html

why didn’t you also post the multiple comments that said it wasn’t a red and Var worked well 🤷‍♂️

And Fernandino on many occasions was nowhere near the ball - he was the master of the tactical foul to stop many attack







Click to expand...

That vid isn't about Fernandino!

But Fernandinho never seemed deliberately violent (though perhaps by accident/consequence) as Tripper was. Which is why the Red wasn't a surprise - to me.
FWIW. I believe VAR DID work well, though I wouldn't have been surprised if they had NOT overturned the decision!

No. A different one, but with much of the same content. Oh and the reason I didn't comment that there were 'nay, not a Red' was that cut/paste of the article was playing up, so I never got past the page or so of ads that followed the 'It was a Red' section.


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## Dando (Aug 22, 2022)




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## ColchesterFC (Aug 22, 2022)

Have Liverpool got a lot of injuries at the minute? Their bench looks a bit light on recognisable names. Starting eleven looks reasonable enough but there doesn't seem to be a lot in reserve.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Have Liverpool got a lot of injuries at the minute? Their bench looks a bit light on recognisable names. Starting eleven looks reasonable enough but there doesn't seem to be a lot in reserve.
		
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Yep 

Konate 
Matip
Kelleher
Ramsey 
Ox
Keita 
Jota 
Jones

Then add Nunez being suspended


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## fundy (Aug 22, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Have Liverpool got a lot of injuries at the minute? Their bench looks a bit light on recognisable names. Starting eleven looks reasonable enough but there doesn't seem to be a lot in reserve.
		
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funnily enough I thought that about Citys yesterday too. going to be a long season that tests squad depth even for the very top clubs


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## fundy (Aug 22, 2022)

apart from it being in the first 10 mins whys that not a booking for TAA???


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

Why are Liverpool allowing utd to look good?

This is quite funny so far.


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## fundy (Aug 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why are Liverpool allowing utd to look good?

This is quite funny so far.
		
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Pretty sure this has to be a good night for the neutrals on this thread haha


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## pokerjoke (Aug 22, 2022)

Taxi for Milner and Alison


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## SteveW86 (Aug 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why are Liverpool allowing utd to look good?

This is quite funny so far.
		
Click to expand...

Man Utd outplaying them so far. That was a very good goal.


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## SteveW86 (Aug 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Pretty sure this has to be a good night for the neutrals on this thread haha
		
Click to expand...

Could be a belter


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Pretty sure this has to be a good night for the neutrals on this thread haha
		
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SteveW86 said:



			Could be a belter
		
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Hopefully the tackles will get spicier  and they can kick lumps out of each other.


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## Slime (Aug 22, 2022)

Can't watch the game just yet ................................. but you can have this;


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## Slime (Aug 22, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is it the end for Benin's Squirrels?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/62635050

Look away Slime, look away.

Click to expand...


Don't worry, I've got a whole zoo full of animals!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

Utd well worth their lead - first 30 mins they were like another team with their pressing , high energy causing big problems and it was no surprise they got the goal - totally different team


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## Piece (Aug 22, 2022)

Reasonable game considering it's a bottom of the league clash

😉😄


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## Tashyboy (Aug 22, 2022)

Piece said:



			Reasonable game considering it's a bottom of the league clash

😉😄
		
Click to expand...

Allegedly the worst ever Utd team have dragged Liverpool into a relegation battle. 😉 even though it’s rammel it felt good typing it.😁


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## Jimaroid (Aug 22, 2022)

Nicely worked goal and fair enough VVD was a bit of a statue but how did Alisson end up on the floor wrong sided? He’s not had a great first half or is it just me?


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## Slime (Aug 22, 2022)

I'm watching the game now, time for United to implode!


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## Slime (Aug 22, 2022)

WHAT!


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## Tashyboy (Aug 22, 2022)

Anyone remember when I said Liverpool play a high line that could be exploited.


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## Slime (Aug 22, 2022)




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## Tashyboy (Aug 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm watching the game now, time for United to explode! 

Click to expand...

sorted slime 😉👍


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## pauljames87 (Aug 22, 2022)

that looked very much offside....

but hey


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## BiMGuy (Aug 22, 2022)

Have ManU dried their pitch?

Tell me again how good TAA and VVD are?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 22, 2022)

How was that not offside?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561799473097048066
😂😂😂😂


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			How was that not offside?






Click to expand...

Miles onside 🤷‍♂️😊


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyone remember when I said Liverpool play a high line that could be exploited.
		
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Yes and with this midfield there is just no pressure on the ball.
Not at the races at all tonight all over the pitch.

Can’t let Sancho collect and turn on the penalty spot and just pick his spot.
Milner was right VVD should close him down.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			that looked very much offside....

but hey
		
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Blue in Munich said:



			How was that not offside?






Click to expand...

I thought this at the time but they haven’t shown it again. Presumably the upper body of the liverpool player is playing him on 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			that looked very much offside....

but hey
		
Click to expand...

It's the kind of one that used to be called level but VAR normally gives as offside by a leg hair. But I'm glad it wasn't ruled out as I still say level should be on. 👍🏻


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## pauljames87 (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It's the kind of one that used to be called level but VAR normally gives as offside by a leg hair. But I'm glad it wasn't ruled out as I still say level should be on. 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

when he broke i said oh looks offside

when they reviewed thought offside

but when it was given on .. I wasnt bothered ....


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It's the kind of one that used to be called level but VAR normally gives as offside by a leg hair. But I'm glad it wasn't ruled out as I still say level should be on. 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

Think they need to use the feet as a measure at least then there’s a consistency.
I agree level is on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			How was that not offside?






Click to expand...

That’s the only picture they showed and didn’t put the lines on - looks offside 

Embarrassing from Fernandes


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## hairball_89 (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s the only picture they showed and didn’t put the lines on - looks offside

Embarrassing from Fernandes
		
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I'm not sure Liverpool fans can talk much about embarrassing Man United players tonight. Our's have been atrocious from minute 1!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			I'm not sure Liverpool fans can talk much about embarrassing Man United players tonight. Our's have been atrocious from minute 1!
		
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Man Utd players have just been better all over the pitch tonight , not many of ours can’t hold their heads upn


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## 3offTheTee (Aug 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			apart from it being in the first 10 mins whys that not a booking for TAA???
		
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May I ask from some of you more knowledgeable people than me why does it matter whether a foul is in the 1st or 91st minute when a foul is committed?

A foul is a foul is a foul. Simple. Players know they have committed a foul so book them.


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## Slime (Aug 22, 2022)

Uh, oh!


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## fundy (Aug 22, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			May I ask from some of you more knowledgeable people than me why does it matter whether a foul is in the 1st or 91st minute when a foul is committed?

A foul is a foul is a foul. Simple. Players know they have committed a foul so book them.
		
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It shouldnt plain and simple, sadly the refs see it differently 

Bruno trying hard to see red now too


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

Should Fernandes get booked for that ? Seen it before


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## Slime (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should Fernandes get booked for that ? Seen it before
		
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No.


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## 3offTheTee (Aug 22, 2022)

Does Fernandez need to go to the hospital with that ‘injury’!


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should Fernandes get booked for that ? Seen it before
		
Click to expand...

It's United's kick off, why does Salah need the ball; should Salah be booked?


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## fundy (Aug 22, 2022)

Why are prem league games stopped for cramp? GOWTFG


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's United's kick off, why does Salah need the ball; should Salah be booked?
		
Click to expand...

Booked for what ? Trying to get the game started again as quick as possible and not time waste ?

Players have been booked for doing what Fernandes did

And there he goes again throwing himself to the floor holding his face


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2022)

Klopps head about to fall off 😂😂😂😂
prey for whoever interviews him after the game 😬


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## Slime (Aug 22, 2022)




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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Does Fernandez need to go to the hospital with that ‘injury’!
		
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He will have company. Martinez will be in the bed next to him 🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2022)

Was a deserved win for Utd

We need to get going in games quicker - been a poor start , certainly need to get some players back soon.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2022)

Great result for Yernited 😊


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## hairball_89 (Aug 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Klopps head about to fall off 😂😂😂😂
prey for whoever interviews him after the game 😬
		
Click to expand...

I adore the man. But he's got to sort this out. You can't be happy with the way he's lead this team towards the end of last season and the beginning of this. going behind 7 games in a row is a problem. Being passive in every department 3 games in a row this season is awful. Yes there are a stupid number of injuries, but my god the midfield is an issue. He's got his work cut out.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was a deserved win for Utd

We need to get going in games quicker - been a poor start , certainly need to get some players back soon.
		
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& players need to stop head butting opposition players 👍🏻


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## Slime (Aug 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Great result for Yernited 😊
		
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I didn't see that coming.
A happy Slime tonight.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 22, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Does Fernandez need to go to the hospital with that ‘injury’!
		
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😂


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## Tashyboy (Aug 22, 2022)

We are only three games in and I am enjoying this season so much, some dream wrecking results for the betting folk.


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## Piece (Aug 22, 2022)

Well, at least Liverpool are still above Everton 😄


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## Jimaroid (Aug 22, 2022)

That was quite an eye opening game considering how good Liverpool were just 4 PL games ago.


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's United's kick off, why does Salah need the ball; should Salah be booked?
		
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Agree with you. Nonsensical for Liverpool players to try and wrestle the ball from Bruno when it's United's kick off. Time is added on for goals anyway and them putting it on the spot doesn't really get the game started any quicker. Daft behaviour from both players, the whole incident was laughable. 🤣


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## BiMGuy (Aug 22, 2022)

Having watched some fantastic games at the weekend. That was an awful advertisement for Premier League football.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 22, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Finally a manager with some balls dropping big players.
Big call
Hope it works for him,poo or bust.
		
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Fair play to ETH for having the balls to drop big players that have not been performing or don’t want to be there.
Credit where credits due,let’s hope that attitude continues.
Seriously that’s all it’s been attitude,change the mindset change the results.
Liverpool were awful and play so high a few good final passes and it could have been more.
As I said last week Liverpool can forget any challenge for the title this year.
I can see some big decisions coming for ETH in the next couple weeks.
Great team performance tonight.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 22, 2022)

Some embarrassing theatrics from Fernandes as usual and his dive was ridiculous.
Also some rolling around from Diaz
Normal PL crap that’s a weekly occurrence.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 22, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			I adore the man. But he's got to sort this out. You can't be happy with the way he's lead this team towards the end of last season and the beginning of this. going behind 7 games in a row is a problem. Being passive in every department 3 games in a row this season is awful. Yes there are a stupid number of injuries, but my god the midfield is an issue. He's got his work cut out.
		
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I still believe it is very early days but again I think teams have sussed out Liverpool. Two wing backs who are very impressive that leave space at the back when Liverpool play high. Teams are really organised. TH set Utd up very well and Utd had a lot more energy tonight. Even Fernandez put some work rate in. I said a few weeks ago watching the Community shield Liverpool took there chances City did not. Other teams have. Liverpool are letting teams create chances and it is very unlike them. I did say last week Liverpool fans may have to be patient this season as teams are going to sit back. If teams do sit back they need a player to unlock defences. Am not to sure they have one who can do it on a regular basis.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 22, 2022)

Well, wasn't expecting that.

Very impressed with Malacia. Martinez was excellent as well, looks to be the type who is up for the battle. Glad to see Rashford score, and have some other bright moments. Just hope it is a confidence booster for him, and Sancho as well after his well taken goal.

Fernandez needs to focus on football, and play it simple more often. Definitely do not like his theatrics. 

Will be interested to see what happens with Ronaldo and Maguire. This could be the moment Maguire struggles to get back I'm team, if Varane and Martinez stay fit and play well.

Hopefully Casemiro will be a great addition  help us control possession better, and get possession back more quickly.


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## hairball_89 (Aug 22, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I still believe it is very early days but again I think teams have sussed out Liverpool. Two wing backs who are very impressive that leave space at the back when Liverpool play high. Teams are really organised. TH set Utd up very well and Utd had a lot more energy tonight. Even Fernandez put some work rate in. I said a few weeks ago watching the Community shield Liverpool took there chances City did not. Other teams have. Liverpool are letting teams create chances and it is very unlike them. I did say last week Liverpool fans may have to be patient this season as teams are going to sit back. If teams do sit back they need a player to unlock defences. Am not to sure they have one who can do it on a regular basis.
		
Click to expand...

but teams have sat back against us for 2 years. this isn't new. It's why Jota and now Nunez have come in. The thing that worries me most is a lack of urgency around the midfield. Both in what is on the pitch, and in terms of changing up what is an old and slow midfield who have been brilliant but are clearly not able to go again, and again, and again like they did 3 years ago. Bringing in Thiago was, again, a clear move to combat teams playing deep. but that doesn't help you if your "number 9" is bobby firmino and you've got Trent deciding to float a ball to him from the touchline when he's playing against 3 CBs.  

City cope with packed, tight, well set up defences, in my view, because they move the ball at phenomenal speed. They don't stop, and then they pick an opening and are ruthless. The pace we move the ball at has stagnated massively in the last 8 months or so. Not increased. Klopp's got to earn his money now.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 22, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			but teams have sat back against us for 2 years. this isn't new. It's why Jota and now Nunez have come in. The thing that worries me most is a lack of urgency around the midfield. Both in what is on the pitch, and in terms of changing up what is an old and slow midfield who have been brilliant but are clearly not able to go again, and again, and again like they did 3 years ago. Bringing in Thiago was, again, a clear move to combat teams playing deep. but that doesn't help you if your "number 9" is bobby firmino and you've got Trent deciding to float a ball to him from the touchline when he's playing against 3 CBs. 

City cope with packed, tight, well set up defences, in my view, because they move the ball at phenomenal speed. They don't stop, and then they pick an opening and are ruthless. The pace we move the ball at has stagnated massively in the last 8 months or so. Not increased. Klopp's got to earn his money now.
		
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I think City are fortunate to have KDB who can unlock the door. But what City now have is players like Gundoghan who is very similar to how Paul Scholes seemed to ghost in and score. Yesterday v Newcastle I thought Citys midfield was slow until they went 3-1 down then they went up a couple of gears. City and Liverpool aside I am really enjoying the neutral games and results.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 22, 2022)

Carragher sticking the knife in on VD lol
Saying Milner sold himself too much
Then saying VD should have thrown himself at it.
Brilliant


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It's the kind of one that used to be called level but VAR normally gives as offside by a leg hair. But I'm glad it wasn't ruled out as I still say level should be on. 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

That happens to be how the rule is, effectively, written too!
A player is in an offside position if: any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents' half (excluding the halfway line) and. any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Booked for what ? *Trying to get the game started again as quick as possible and not time waste ?*

Players have been booked for doing what Fernandes did

And there he goes again throwing himself to the floor holding his face
		
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I thought that was the referee's job, not Salah's?


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## 4LEX (Aug 22, 2022)

Credit to ETH, he did exactly what he should've done at the start of the season and got the squad playing to their strengths. Bombing out wasters like Shaw and Maguire sends a huge statement. It was an Ole big game performance. I've been critical of him but he needed to be ruthless and he did a job on Liverpool tonight. No silly playing out from the back, lots of direct balls in behind and a real intensity. Rashford deserves special praise, best player on the park. Martinez was excellent too but the lack of height upfront for Liverpool meant it was the perfect game for him.

I still question if those players can do that week in and week out. On another night Liverpool could've easily grabbed a point dispite playing terribly. It's clear they need to bring in a attacking central midfielder because you can't rely on Thiago over a whole season. No real need to panic as with one signing in CM and injured players back I'd still put a lot of money on Liverpool finishing Top 3 and winning a cup.

So good again to see the ref letting the game flow and the players battle it out


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

Could it be that ManU have finally resolved the Ronaldo issue - and he's going - so everybody is now on the same page and focussed on what's important - winning matches?!
It wouldn't surprise me if that's the case as it doesn't take much to destroy morale and focus for footballers tiny minds and massive egos!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			apart from it being in the first 10 mins whys that not a booking for TAA???
		
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It‘s a Monday night football thing, defenders are allowed to push,pull, grab and hold attackers. When it’s questioned the response is the attackers need to toughen up👍🏻


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## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2022)

RRidges said:



			That happens to be how the rule is, effectively, written too!
A player is in an offside position if: any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents' half (excluding the halfway line) and. any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know. I'm talking about what we've discussed before and how being 'level' has almost been eradicated thanks to VAR showing that your earlobe was in front of the other guys shoelace or something. Personally I'd prefer it to be the case that level to the naked eye is onside rather than the computer lines drawn across.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 22, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's United's kick off, why does Salah need the ball; should Salah be booked?
		
Click to expand...

Irrelevant whose kick off it is. It’s petty time wasting from Fernandes, shame the ref doesn’t manage it properly. No he shouldn’t be booked.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 22, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Some embarrassing theatrics from Fernandes as usual and his dive was ridiculous.
Also some rolling around from Diaz
Normal PL crap that’s a weekly occurrence.
		
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You’ve missed Martinez’s antics after Carvalho whose about 6st ringing wet tackled him 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I know. I'm talking about what we've discussed before and how being 'level' has almost been eradicated thanks to VAR showing that your earlobe was in front of the other guys shoelace or something. Personally I'd prefer it to be the case that level to the naked eye is onside rather than the computer lines drawn across.
		
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I was being somewhat facetious - a smiley would probably have helped.
And no, if VAR gets involved, lines should be drawn to get the decision right.
And FWIW, the nose or feet are most likely to be the counting bits - arms don't count.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 22, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Irrelevant whose kick off it is. It’s petty time wasting from Fernandes, shame the ref doesn’t manage it properly. No he shouldn’t be booked.
		
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Then return back to the position you should be in for a restart quickly and emphasise how much time Fernandes is wasting; if you’re wrestling him into the corner of the net you are wasting as much time as he is. 

Even easier, just return the ball to the referee and let him take it back, no argument then.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 22, 2022)

I don’t ever want to see Henderson and Milner in the same midfield together again. Ever. 

Thought we too slow all over the pitch, how Henderson lost that ball in the midfield for the 2nd I’ll never know🤦‍♂️


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## RRidges (Aug 22, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Some embarrassing theatrics from Fernandes as usual and his dive was ridiculous.
Also some rolling around from Diaz
Normal PL crap that’s a weekly occurrence.
		
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Forcing them off the field - on a stretcher and requiring assessment by medical staff, with the team a man down - would stop the play-acting instantly! Unfortunately, that won't ever happen!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 22, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Then return back to the position you should be in for a restart quickly and emphasise how much time Fernandes is wasting; if you’re wrestling him into the corner of the net you are wasting as much time as he is.

Even easier, just return the ball to the referee and let him take it back, no argument then.
		
Click to expand...

You've seen enough of that and you know aswell as I do nothing gets done about it. If refs actually penalised properly for time wasting it would stop, they don’t, won’t and never will in our lifetime.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 23, 2022)

Dale Johnson has the onside/VAR decision clarified as usual.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561828690547310593


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## Tashyboy (Aug 23, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Dale Johnson has the onside/VAR decision clarified as usual.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561828690547310593

Click to expand...

Tolerance level, 😁 Ave a feeling we will hear that again this season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I don’t ever want to see Henderson and Milner in the same midfield together again. Ever.

Thought we too slow all over the pitch, how Henderson lost that ball in the midfield for the 2nd I’ll never know🤦‍♂️
		
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Milner's is ideal to come on 15 minutes from the end of a game in order to help close it out. That's his role now at the age he is. Nothing wrong with that, it's an important job in a squad. Henderson seems to be getting slower but this is less of an issue when he has an engine next to him, the football brain is still working. Put the two together 😱. When you make that utd midfield look decent you know you have it wrong.

How big a miss do you think Mane is? He was so good for you second half of last season.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 23, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Dale Johnson has the onside/VAR decision clarified as usual.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561828690547310593

Click to expand...

How come Jesus goal against Bournemouth was offside then? It was less offside than that one


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## Tashyboy (Aug 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Milner's is ideal to come on 15 minutes from the end of a game in order to help close it out. That's his role now at the age he is. Nothing wrong with that, it's an important job in a squad. Henderson seems to be getting slower but this is less of an issue when he has an engine next to him, the football brain is still working. Put the two together 😱. When you make that utd midfield look decent you know you have it wrong.

How big a miss do you think Mane is? He was so good for you second half of last season.
		
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Re Milner I think your quote is spot on, however playing Hendo and Milner together. Is it because the squad is that thin. I thought Milner showed 100% commitment in trying to stop the Sancho goal. Sancho just used skill and put him on his backside. VVD should of put more effort in to stop the shot. Sancho used his still body to knock the ball around him.
Re TH, I know there’s discussion re how he will handle things but for me and I said this when he dropped Ronaldo, he is not afraid of making tough/ right decisions. The one that has to worry about his place is not Ronaldo but Maguire.


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## Yorkhacker (Aug 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I don’t ever want to see Henderson and Milner in the same midfield together again. Ever.
		
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Didn't they play in the same midfield in the last Old Trafford encounter.  What a difference 10 months makes


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## Jimaroid (Aug 23, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			How come Jesus goal against Bournemouth was offside then? It was less offside than that one
		
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He answered that already. It simply wasn’t within the tolerance level - 5cm apparently.

Complete breakdown in his Monday VAR review here

We only have to put up with it for this season. All completely new tech coming next year.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 23, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			He answered that already. It simply wasn’t within the tolerance level - 5cm apparently.

Complete breakdown in his Monday VAR review here

We only have to put up with it for this season. All completely new tech coming next year.
		
Click to expand...

That link was excellent and actually answered some questions I had posted re the Trippier VAR overturn.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 23, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			He answered that already. It simply wasn’t within the tolerance level - 5cm apparently.

Complete breakdown in his Monday VAR review here

We only have to put up with it for this season. *All completely new tech coming next year.*

Click to expand...

Presumably operated by the current set of Visually Abject Referees? So no change then...


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## Jimaroid (Aug 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Presumably operated by the current set of Visually Abject Referees? So no change then...
		
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Even better than that! It’s AI based so we get to complain about algorithms instead.


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## BrianM (Aug 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Presumably operated by the current set of Visually Abject Referees? So no change then...
		
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What we need is the technology to tell us and take away the human element, you’d think that couldn’t be far away in this day and age.


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## BrianM (Aug 23, 2022)

Got to say Man Utd were impressive last night, work rate was phenomenal, just shows what hard work can do, I think even if Liverpool did win the fans would of been happy with the level of commitment by the players.
There is ways to get beat and Brighton and Brentford isn’t’ that way.
Although only one game you’ve got to think the confidence will be sky high Within the squad.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 23, 2022)

BrianM said:



			What we need is the technology to tell us and take away the human element, you’d think that couldn’t be far away in this day and age.
		
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That’s where they’re going. We’ll see it at the World Cup for the first time. 

I’m skeptical as it uses the same tech that has existed for videogame and film animation for years so I know it’s limitations,  However, those limitations are more predictable than a retired myopic referee so I’m thinking it’ll be much better than what we currently have. We’ll see!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Re Milner I think your quote is spot on, however playing Hendo and Milner together. Is it because the squad is that thin. I thought Milner showed 100% commitment in trying to stop the Sancho goal. Sancho just used skill and put him on his backside. VVD should of put more effort in to stop the shot. Sancho used his still body to knock the ball around him.
Re TH, I know there’s discussion re how he will handle things but for me and I said this when he dropped Ronaldo, he is not afraid of making tough/ right decisions. The one that has to worry about his place is not Ronaldo but Maguire.
		
Click to expand...

Milner has 100% commitment but he is becoming more of a blunt instrument as age catches up. His tackles are that little bit later, he is that bit slower. Fine, just about, when used correctly but not as per last night.


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## Orikoru (Aug 23, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Dale Johnson has the onside/VAR decision clarified as usual.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561828690547310593

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing that. If it means we get back to level being _onside_ then I'm all for it!


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## Orikoru (Aug 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Milner has 100% commitment but he is becoming more of a blunt instrument as age catches up. His tackles are that little bit later, he is that bit slower. Fine, just about, when used correctly but not as per last night.
		
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What do you mean... 36 is the prime of life isn't it?

😭😭😭😭😭


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## Jimaroid (Aug 23, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Thanks for sharing that. If it means we get back to level being _onside_ then I'm all for it!
		
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Dale's really good, one of, if not the-best sources of football/rules/VAR analysis currently getting published IMO. As he points out in his threads, had this been in place last season Liverpool would have benefitted the most as they had the most "level offside" decisions go against them. It's somewhat ironic that they got done by one last night.


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## Orikoru (Aug 23, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Dale's really good, one of, if not the-best sources of football/rules/VAR analysis currently getting published IMO. As he points out in his threads, had this been in place last season Liverpool would have benefitted the most as they had the most "level offside" decisions go against them. It's somewhat ironic that they got done by one last night.
		
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Yeah, the heart bleeds for them.  Surprised Klopp wasn't making a bigger deal of it. Ready made excuse for him.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 23, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, the heart bleeds for them.  Surprised Klopp wasn't making a bigger deal of it. Ready made excuse for him.
		
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Nah, I haven't seen Kopp's post-match interview (yet) but I can't see how he'd complain about that one. I suspect he had many other things to complain about before that one.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 23, 2022)

I thought he was just offside going by recent decisions.
That angle doesn’t show it clearly.
Agree regarding Milner,however he played better than Salah and he’s apparently one of the best 1 season wonders in the world.
Liverpool were all over the place last night,pushing TAA and Robertson up so high against Utds pace was suicide,and to our benefit they never learnt from it.
Of course we had to improve massively to create those overlaps.
Funny how ETH was actually in the technical area this week giving out instructions ,must have read my post from last week.
Need to show that level of commitment consistently now.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 23, 2022)

It'll be interesting to see how Utd play against Southampton on Saturday, Should be a very different challenge. The exact same work rate is needed, but given we should have more possession, we need to make sure we don't get hit on the counter loads. Before last season we were actually pretty decent against some of the top teams, by playing on the counter, but then struggled to break down defensive teams and then could get hammered on the counter (pretty much what happened to Liverpool last night).

Liverpool at home to Bournemouth. Surely Liverpool can get all 3 points in that one, or do Bournemouth have anything that can hurt Liverpool realistically? They've been well beaten by Arsenal and City, although did beat Villa.


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## Orikoru (Aug 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Liverpool at home to Bournemouth. Surely Liverpool can get all 3 points in that one, or do *Bournemouth *have anything that can hurt *Liverpool *realistically? They've been well beaten by *Arsenal and City*, although did beat Villa.
		
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Christ, they must be well happy with the old fixture computer.


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## Newtonuti (Aug 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It'll be interesting to see how Utd play against Southampton on Saturday, Should be a very different challenge. The exact same work rate is needed, but given we should have more possession, we need to make sure we don't get hit on the counter loads. Before last season we were actually pretty decent against some of the top teams, by playing on the counter, but then struggled to break down defensive teams and then could get hammered on the counter (pretty much what happened to Liverpool last night).

Liverpool at home to Bournemouth. Surely Liverpool can get all 3 points in that one, or do Bournemouth have anything that can hurt Liverpool realistically? They've been well beaten by Arsenal and City, although did beat Villa.
		
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Casemiro should help prevent those counter attacks hurting Utd. However he'll need to adapt rapidly to the more open football they play. He's used to playing in front of a compact, deep back 4 at Real.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Milner's is ideal to come on 15 minutes from the end of a game in order to help close it out. That's his role now at the age he is. Nothing wrong with that, it's an important job in a squad. Henderson seems to be getting slower but this is less of an issue when he has an engine next to him, the football brain is still working. Put the two together 😱. When you make that utd midfield look decent you know you have it wrong.

*How big a miss do you think Mane is*? He was so good for you second half of last season.
		
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Im not buying into this theory, people forget Mane's performances tgis time last year leading upto xmas he was poor by his standards. 

Last season Mane had 2 different halves to the season. 1st half poor 2nd half absolutely outstanding.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Im not buying into this theory, people forget Mane's performances tgis time last year leading upto xmas he was poor by his standards.

Last season Mane had 2 different halves to the season. 1st half poor 2nd half absolutely outstanding.
		
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100%. It is not just Mane. The entire Liverpool side are just rubbish


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Im not buying into this theory, people forget Mane's performances tgis time last year leading upto xmas he was poor by his standards.

Last season Mane had 2 different halves to the season. 1st half poor 2nd half absolutely outstanding.
		
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Few players do it for a whole season but the joy of your front players is that when one is flat, Salah has been since the turn of the year on the whole, then another picks up the slack. Mane was the man for you second half of last year, anyone would miss a player playing to that level.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 23, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Didn't they play in the same midfield in the last Old Trafford encounter.  What a difference 10 months makes
		
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Yep and 1 half decent performance against a pretty rubbish midfield doesnt make a difference. 

Btw ive been consistent with my view re Milner and Henderson. The midfield has to evolve. It has to be 1 or the other. That said i dont think Klopp could've done much else with what he had available.

Fabinho had a poor game at Fulham and not much better v Palace, so i wasnt surprised to see him benched on that basis.


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## Orikoru (Aug 23, 2022)

Mane was a great player but the replacement was supposed to already be there in Luis Diaz. He scored one cracking goal last week, I'm sure he'll be producing the goods before long and Mane won't be missed that much. I think the bigger problem is probably the lack of depth in midfield at the moment.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 23, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Mane was a great player but the replacement was supposed to already be there in Luis Diaz. He scored one cracking goal last week, I'm sure he'll be producing the goods before long and Mane won't be missed that much. I think the bigger problem is probably the lack of depth in midfield at the moment.
		
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Mane never decided to go until after Diaz was signed, Nunez is Mane's replacement. 

Diaz's all round  performances have been sound. End product needs to be refined but that will come with minutes on the pitch. He's shown me hes got enough quality. He'll be ok.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Few players do it for a whole season but the joy of your front players is that when one is flat, Salah has been since the turn of the year on the whole, then another picks up the slack. Mane was the man for you second half of last year, anyone would miss a player playing to that level.
		
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Salah hasnt been flat, his performances have been good on the whole, hes still scoring goals whilst he's being marked by 2 players most weeks. This is where the midfield earns their points by moving into better positions instead of standing round like 1 of Lewis's.

Going on Mane's performances  this time last year we havent missed him. 

Midfields win games. By controlling the game with the ball and being solid defensively.


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## Reemul (Aug 23, 2022)

Liverpool were poor, Man Utd worked hard but did not look great except Liverpool made them look half decent. Liverpool's midfield was very poor and getting the the wide defenders up and out made them look really open.

I think Liverpool will struggle this season if they play like they have so far. Man Utd have a long way to go as well. It could be a strange old season especially with the World Cup mid season break.


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## Orikoru (Aug 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Mane never decided to go until after Diaz was signed, Nunez is Mane's replacement.

Diaz's all round  performances have been sound. End product needs to be refined but that will come with minutes on the pitch. He's shown me hes got enough quality. He'll be ok.
		
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You misunderstand me. I meant that they already had their ready-made replacement in Luis Diaz when Mane left. I don't consider Nunez a direct replacement since he's an actual striker which you didn't have before. Unless we count Origi.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 23, 2022)

Reemul said:



			Liverpool were poor, Man Utd worked hard but did not look great except Liverpool made them look half decent.
		
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I thought this also. ManU looked like a bottom table team having a Big Sam bounce (tee hee, I know, too easy) mainly because Liverpool let them.

I don't think they would have looked half as good against City or Arsenal right now. Or even a fully fit Liverpool. 

And for clarity I think that ManU team last night would have ripped us toffees apart a good 4 or 5 nil the way they played.

The main reason I say this other than cheap digs is because I found the post-match analysis quite hilarious. You'd think Jesus Christ himself was resurrected and played for Man U last night based on the punditry. I didn't see Man U's previous match and I appreciate it's a huge step up in performance but come on. I don't want to see City run away with another league win and we need both sets of reds in good form to stop that nonsense.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I don't want to see City run away with another league win and *we need both sets of reds in good form* to stop that nonsense. 

Click to expand...

Give yourself a slap and get a grip .

We can let Arsenal give City a run for it this year, maybe Spurs as well.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 23, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			You misunderstand me. I meant that they already had their ready-made replacement in Luis Diaz when Mane left. I don't consider Nunez a direct replacement since he's an actual striker which you didn't have before. Unless we count Origi.
		
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Haha no man could replace Lord Divock.😍


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## Swango1980 (Aug 23, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I thought this also. ManU looked like a bottom table team having a Big Sam bounce (tee hee, I know, too easy) mainly because Liverpool let them.

I don't think they would have looked half as good against City or Arsenal right now. Or even a fully fit Liverpool.

And for clarity I think that ManU team last night would have ripped us toffees apart a good 4 or 5 nil the way they played.

The main reason I say this other than cheap digs is because I found the post-match analysis quite hilarious. You'd think Jesus Christ himself was resurrected and played for Man U last night based on the punditry. I didn't see Man U's previous match and I appreciate it's a huge step up in performance but come on. I don't want to see City run away with another league win and we need both sets of reds in good form to stop that nonsense. 

Click to expand...

To be fair, none of the pundits were getting carried away about how well United could do going forward. In fact, they were very cautious about that, and kept reiterating that last nights performance counts for nothing if they can't do it week in, week out. It was clear United have a long way to go, and are not suddenly title contenders, or even likely to finish top 4.

However, all the praise was placed directly on how hard the United players worked. I know that should be a given, but for a long time United's players have fallen so ridiculously short of that. Week in, week out. And they have been absolutely slated for it. Some even think Keane and Neville are too harsh on them (I don't), and that could destroy the players confidence even more. So, given that the effort was so radically different last night, I think it is fair enough to give them the praise. Praise them if they deserve it, or criticise them when they deserve it.

For me, I'm still more interested how they'll do at teams like Southampton. If Varane and Martinez remain as the centre backs, and Casemiro comes in, perhaps we'll be less vulnerable on the counter. If so, that might make all the difference in games were we have most of the possession and the team push higher up the pitch.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Give yourself a slap and get a grip .

We can let Arsenal give City a run for it this year, maybe Spurs as well.
		
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Yea, quite. Nothing would make me happier than Liverpool and United struggling this season.


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## road2ruin (Aug 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			For me, I'm still more interested how they'll do at teams like Southampton. If Varane and Martinez remain as the centre backs, and Casemiro comes in, perhaps we'll be less vulnerable on the counter. If so, that might make all the difference in games were we have most of the possession and the team push higher up the pitch.
		
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I think this is going to be a better insight into United’s true showing. Granted we’ve been stuffed by Liverpool on a number of occasions recently however if you can’t be up for it against them especially when you’ve been humped twice in the opening two weekends of the PL then you’re never going to be. Playing Soton won’t have the same intensity in terms of atmosphere etc so it’ll be up to the players themselves to get themselves in the mood. Will they be able to replicate it or will they revert to type and show that the Liverpool game was a ‘blip’. Personally I think with the team selection ETH put out it’ll be the former and the performances will improve, at least I hope so.


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## chrisd (Aug 24, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I don't want to see City run away with another league win and we need both sets of reds in good form to stop that nonsense. 

Click to expand...

I'd much rather see City do it than both reds in any sort of form, happy to see Spurs or Arsenal being the main challengers.


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## Orikoru (Aug 24, 2022)

We might be jumping the gun a bit to write off Liverpool and call Arsenal challengers... You might as well add that Leeds being back in the Champion's League will be nice too.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 24, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I'd much rather see City do it than both reds in any sort of form, happy to see Spurs or Arsenal being the main challengers.
		
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In recent years the largest gap where a team ran away with the league was Liverpool when they won. 👍 last years was won by one point with City winning it with 3 goals in 5 mins v Villa In the last game.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			In recent years the largest gap where a team ran away with the league was Liverpool when they won. 👍 last years was won by one point with City winning it with 3 goals in 5 mins v Villa In the last game.
		
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They won against a very strong Liverpool team though - and that’s pretty much my point. I said before and I still think it’s true that that Liverpool side at the end of 20-21 was the best team I’d ever seen and it was stunning to watch.

To explain my rationale. I don’t want a hollow victory against a weakened side. I don’t want to just beat the B team. I want to see the best players in their best form go at it and for a win to mean something. A win doesn’t feel as good with all the “we were injured, we were resting, we played three games in six days” excuses even when valid. Yes it’s a fantasy of mine (lol, toffees) but I think the Premier league should be more than just a couple of teams at their best otherwise it’s just going to end up being something like Scottish fitba and nobody wants that. 

Beating the best at their best. That’s what I’d like. I might see it happen in my lifetime but probably not.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 24, 2022)

@Aztecs27 what are your thoughts on James Garner? Considering the number of players you have bought this summer it seems slightly odd that you haven't gone in for him when you had him last season.

Everton are being strongly linked with him, obviously we don't need a striker, just more midfielders , but I haven't seen him in action.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 24, 2022)

I see that there was a pitch invasion at Crawley Town last night, after they beat Fulham in the Cup.

Will be interesting if the authorities back up their new tough rules, and ban everyone involved. Just looking at a single photo on the BBC website, there must have been at least several hundred on the pitch at least.


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## fundy (Aug 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Aztecs27 what are your thoughts on James Garner? Considering the number of players you have bought this summer it seems slightly odd that you haven't gone in for him when you had him last season.

Everton are being strongly linked with him, obviously we don't need a striker, just more midfielders , but I haven't seen him in action.
		
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Im gonna butt in here  Jon can correct me later  was impressed with him last year when I watched Forest, to some degree he was the one that made them tick to a neutral observer. I guess the question is whether he could make the step up to the prem and it seems United have decided he isnt good enough for them having had him on their books for many years, which seems strange considering some that have played in midfield for them. Might be wrong but expect its a timing thing for Forest in that they got other deals over the line, pretty sure their fans wanted him back


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## RRidges (Aug 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Aztecs27 what are your thoughts on *James Garner*? Considering the number of players you have bought this summer it seems slightly odd that you haven't gone in for him when you had him last season.

Everton are being strongly linked with him, obviously we don't need a striker, just more midfielders , but I haven't seen him in action.
		
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Does he get complimented with 'Great Escape' if he avoids a Yellow Card?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 24, 2022)

RRidges said:



			Does he get complimented with 'Great Escape' if he avoids a Yellow Card?

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No doubt Jeff Stelling often refers to him as a Maverick player on the pitch as well 

Sadly, that would go over the heads of most on the pitch. I appreciated it though


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## fundy (Aug 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sadly, that would go over the heads of most on the pitch. I appreciated it though 

Click to expand...


it got a rather large sigh here lol


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## Stuart_C (Aug 24, 2022)

RRidges said:



			Does he get complimented with 'Great Escape' if he avoids a Yellow Card?

Click to expand...

Bravo sir👏👏👏


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			it got a rather large sigh here lol
		
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It was a groan here. 🙄


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Aztecs27 what are your thoughts on James Garner? Considering the number of players you have bought this summer it seems slightly odd that you haven't gone in for him when you had him last season.

Everton are being strongly linked with him, obviously we don't need a striker, just more midfielders , but I haven't seen him in action.
		
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He's really good. I'm still hoping we'll get him to be honest (although we've got some real quality in midfield now). Gibbs-White was Cooper's number one target this summer and Garner wasn't far behind him. So if Fat Frank can keep his grubby mitts off him so he can come back home to the City Ground, it'd be much appreciated  

Speak to any Forest fan and they'll likely agree that he's one of the best loan players we've ever had at the club. 

Still raw as he's young, and his dead ball delivery was questionable early on last season, but was consistently good at the end of the season - we scored more from corners last year than we have in absolutely ages. Good work rate, reads the game well, creates chance and was a real game changer for us at times. I really, REALLY hope we get him back but worrying that none of the Fabrizio Romano's of this world are mentioning us in the transfer rumours involving him  

I'm shocked United are entertaining selling him - he's an upgrade on Fred and McTominay by some margin (not difficult though, really )


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			Im gonna butt in here  Jon can correct me later  was impressed with him last year when I watched Forest, to some degree he was the one that made them tick to a neutral observer. I guess the question is whether he could make the step up to the prem and it seems United have decided he isnt good enough for them having had him on their books for many years, which seems strange considering some that have played in midfield for them. Might be wrong but expect its a timing thing for Forest in that they got other deals over the line, pretty sure their fans wanted him back
		
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Spot on old bean. To be honest, the focus being shifted away from him might have been forced due to the injuries we've had in EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. This season.

Niakhaté who had already cemented himself as our starting CB pulled his hamstring against West Ham and is out 2 months. Omar Richards, who was supposed to be starting LWB has a hairline fracture in his leg which will keep him out til the new year, and now Kouyate got a knock last night against Grimsby - so I know we're looking at LB and CB options currently as we'll need some depth there as the quality we have in squad depth for those positions is still light (despite signing a million players already  ) and we'd be dipping into the U23's for emergency cover, which isn't ideal when we're off to the grim north west to face Haaland in 7 days :-|

On a more positive note, our midfield and attacking options are looking quite exciting now though!


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## Piece (Aug 24, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			He's really good. I'm still hoping we'll get him to be honest (although we've got some real quality in midfield now). Gibbs-White was Cooper's number one target this summer and Garner wasn't far behind him. So if Fat Frank can keep his grubby mitts off him so he can come back home to the City Ground, it'd be much appreciated 

Speak to any Forest fan and they'll likely agree that he's one of the best loan players we've ever had at the club.

Still raw as he's young, and his dead ball delivery was questionable early on last season, but was consistently good at the end of the season - we scored more from corners last year than we have in absolutely ages. Good work rate, reads the game well, creates chance and was a real game changer for us at times. I really, REALLY hope we get him back but worrying that none of the Fabrizio Romano's of this world are mentioning us in the transfer rumours involving him 

I'm shocked United are entertaining selling him - he's an upgrade on Fred and McTominay by some margin (not difficult though, really )
		
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The flip side is that Garner wasn't very good for us in his previous loan spell. BUT, it wasn't partly his fault due to the Watford coach merry-go-round. Wasn't really given full games he needed. He showed a good dead-ball ability and probably would have been good for us, if we used the midfield more often, rather than balloon it high in the air all the time.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 24, 2022)

Piece said:



			The flip side is that Garner wasn't very good for us in his previous loan spell. BUT, it wasn't partly his fault due to the Watford coach merry-go-round. Wasn't really given full games he needed. He showed a good dead-ball ability and probably would have been good for us, if we used the midfield more often, rather than balloon it high in the air all the time.
		
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He's had two loan spells for us - last season and the previous full season under Lamouchi - both times he's excelled. If I had to pick one loanee to have back at the club from last season, it would be him.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Aztecs27 
Everton are being strongly linked with him, obviously we don't need a striker, just more midfielders , but I haven't seen him in action.
		
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It might make sense if we’re binning off some of our other midfield? Not sure what might come to pass in the madness of time remaining now. But I am concerned with what’s shaping up.

I do like the idea of Gueye coming back. Always liked him but it sounded done, then fallen through, now rumours appearing of it being back on?

I can’t keep up to be honest.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 24, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			It might make sense if we’re binning off some of our other midfield? Not sure what might come to pass in the madness of time remaining now. But I am concerned with what’s shaping up.

I do like the idea of Gueye coming back. Always liked him but it sounded done, then fallen through, now rumours appearing of it being back on?

I can’t keep up to be honest.
		
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I'm fine getting Garner but surely the only signing we should be looking at right now is a striker. We need goals, goals I tell you 😄. Get that sorted first, then look elsewhere. No point having all the possession in the world if we don't have anyone to put the ball in the net. (I may be getting slightly frantic about this now 😳)

Gueye was great for us but it depends where he is at now. Is he the same player or have his legs gone in the intervening years? I don't know 🤷‍♂️.

I'm hoping it doesn't go down to the last day and we end up with some dodgy panic buys, been there before too often in recent years 😥


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## Jimaroid (Aug 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm fine getting Garner but surely the only signing we should be looking at right now is a striker. We need goals, goals I tell you 😄. Get that sorted first, then look elsewhere. No point having all the possession in the world if we don't have anyone to put the ball in the net. (I may be getting slightly frantic about this now 😳)
		
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I completely agree. I think we've done... just about ok... to trim down our costs but we've not seen much of the new signings yet and I'm very concerned that we have nothing up front. There aren't even any uncredible rumours about a goal scorer coming in to give me some hope. So a complete absence of credible rumours of a striker has me really worried. Unless I'm just not seeing it and there is something crafty up someone's sleeve, I think we're in trouble.


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## Reemul (Aug 24, 2022)

So why does it seem so difficult for us to get a Striker in. 60 mill for Gordon and get someone decent in. Without goals we are going down and DLC is looking like a sick note


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## Swango1980 (Aug 24, 2022)

Just noticed Man City are away at Barcelona tonight in a friendly. Strange time to play a friendly.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just noticed Man City are away at Barcelona tonight in a friendly. Strange time to play a friendly.
		
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It’s a charity game in support of ALS/MND


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just noticed Man City are away at Barcelona tonight in a friendly. Strange time to play a friendly.
		
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Aztecs27 said:



			It’s a charity game in support of ALS/MND
		
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I did wonder. Thanks for clarifying, it doesn't make sense otherwise. 

I'm watching the tranmere v Newcastle game. Tranmere doing a good job but their striker is a lucky lad to be on the pitch, Darlow is even luckier that his leg is in one piece still.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 24, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			It’s a charity game in support of ALS/MND
		
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Yeah, I googled that. Must be the only time they could fit it in (see it was rescheduled after Covid), as it is still a strange time to play it.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, I googled that. Must be the only time they could fit it in (see it was rescheduled after Covid), as it is still a strange time to play it.
		
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Hopefully means city will be knackered by the time we play them next Wednesday 😅😅


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## BrianM (Aug 24, 2022)

Fantastic result for Rangers tonight 😀


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## pokerjoke (Aug 24, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Fantastic result for Rangers tonight 😀
		
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100%
How much is it worth to them?
Unexpected result after the first leg?


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## BrianM (Aug 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			100%
How much is it worth to them?
Unexpected result after the first leg?
		
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PSV are a good side, so to get a result away from home is superb.
Not sure of the finances but even if you drop into the europa it’s more money in.
Great for Scottish football on the whole in my opinion.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 24, 2022)

BrianM said:



			PSV are a good side, so to get a result away from home is superb.
Mot sure of the finances but even if you drop into the europa it’s more money in.
*Great for Scottish football on the whole in my opinion*.
		
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This is bang on. Rangers having a successful season in Europe this year increases their co-efficient points


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## nickjdavis (Aug 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I did wonder. Thanks for clarifying, it doesn't make sense otherwise.

I'm watching the tranmere v Newcastle game. Tranmere doing a good job but their striker is a lucky lad to be on the pitch, Darlow is even luckier that his leg is in one piece still.
		
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showcased reasons why some bigger clubs prefer to not risk their first team players in the competition and put out weakened teams. Thought the team Newcastle put out was good enough to win but we didn't really create as much from open play as we should have done. Tranmere caused us concern without really testing Darlow....thought their goal was excellently worked mind but Trippier showed his class with his creative passing and delivery into the box.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 25, 2022)

Reemul said:



			So why does it seem so difficult for us to get a Striker in. 60 mill for Gordon and get someone decent in. Without goals we are going down and DLC is looking like a sick note
		
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Another day is going by, vague rumours only. It looks like we will be playing Brentford on Saturday without a goalscorer, possibly even Leeds on Tuesday still . That would be 5 games, criminal if that is the case (I'm assuming we will scramble someone in on Wednesday at 10pm)


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## nickjdavis (Aug 25, 2022)

Champs League draw is so tedious. They need to dump the screw-thread footballs that Yaya Toure is struggling to undo and use a ball that's two halves connect by a simple bayonet fitting.

Some grey bloke in a grey suit has just said the draw is now getting exciting...the audience look anything but riveted!!!!


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## nickjdavis (Aug 25, 2022)

Group C is the group of death even with only 3 pots drawn so far!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2022)

Well some interesting groups 

City with the group of death 


Group A: Liverpool, Ajax, Napoli, Rangers
Group B: Atletico Madrid, Porto, Bayer Leverkusen, Bruges
Group C: Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Viktoria Pizen
Group D: Eintracht Frankfurt, Spurs, Sporting Lisbon, Marseille
Group E: AC Milan, Chelsea, Salzburg, Dinamo Zagreb
Group F: Leipzig, Real Madrid, Shakhtar Donetsk, Celtic
Group G: Man City, Sevilla, Borussia Dortmund, Copenhagen
Group H: PSG, Juventus, Benfica, Maccabi Haifa.


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## Beezerk (Aug 25, 2022)

Group C looks a cracker.


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## BrianM (Aug 25, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Group C looks a cracker.
		
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The group of Death ☠️☠️☠️


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## Swango1980 (Aug 25, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Champs League draw is so tedious. They need to dump the screw-thread footballs that Yaya Toure is struggling to undo and use a ball that's two halves connect by a simple bayonet fitting.

Some grey bloke in a grey suit has just said the draw is now getting exciting...the audience look anything but riveted!!!!
		
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Didn't see it, but mates were talking about it in whatsapp. First thing they said was that they were making an absolute meal out of it


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2022)




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## Orikoru (Aug 26, 2022)

Having Callum Wilson in my Fantasy team, I was waiting for him to get injured and it's happened already. Bad timing from him with Isak about to arrive, but hey it's always the same with Wilson. Shame really because when fit he's arguably the next best English forward to sub in for Kane.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 26, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Having Callum Wilson in my Fantasy team, I was waiting for him to get injured and it's happened already. Bad timing from him with Isak about to arrive, but hey it's always the same with Wilson. Shame really because when fit he's arguably the next best English forward to sub in for Kane.
		
Click to expand...

My mate is upset as he has him in his DRAFT team. He has put in a bid for Martial, whi is available. However, as he is top of the DRAFT league, I reckon Martial will have been snapped up by someone else before he gets him.


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## fundy (Aug 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			My mate is upset as he has him in his DRAFT team. He has put in a bid for Martial, whi is available. However, as he is top of the DRAFT league, I reckon Martial will have been snapped up by someone else before he gets him.
		
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he'll know by now draft transactions were half hour ago  forwards are so hard in the Draft!!!! (desperately need one next week and hoping a few decent tfrs happen by then, Isak etc)


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## Swango1980 (Aug 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			he'll know by now draft transactions were half hour ago  forwards are so hard in the Draft!!!! (desperately need one next week and hoping a few decent tfrs happen by then, Isak etc)
		
Click to expand...

He actually got him. I wanted to replace Maguire with Perisic and thought I'd have a good chance. Sadly, the bottom manager also had him as 1st choice. So, I have Varane instead. 

Happy enough with my strikers of Haaland, Bamford and Vardy. Except that Bamford is sicknote and Leicester are rubbish, and I'm wondering if Vardy has another decent season in him.

Have Bernardo Silva as well, but this whole "will he, won't he" saga with Barcelona is stressing me out (from a Fantasy Football point of view, but as a Utd fan I'd be quite happy to see him go).


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## fundy (Aug 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He actually got him. I wanted to replace Maguire with Perisic and thought I'd have a good chance. Sadly, the bottom manager also had him as 1st choice. So, I have Varane instead.

Happy enough with my strikers of Haaland, Bamford and Vardy. Except that Bamford is sicknote and Leicester are rubbish, and I'm wondering if Vardy has another decent season in him.

Have Bernardo Silva as well, but this whole "will he, won't he" saga with Barcelona is stressing me out (from a Fantasy Football point of view, but as a Utd fan I'd be quite happy to see him go).
		
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I have Havertz Richarlison and Wellbeck - you can see my need for a striker!!!!! did have Bamford but binned him already lol


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## Swango1980 (Aug 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			I have Havertz Richarlison and Wellbeck - you can see my need for a striker!!!!! *did have Bamford but binned him already* lol
		
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That was my dilemma. It is OK in normal fantasy football, but getting rid of a decent player in the draft means you risk losing them for good. Googling Bamford keeps hinting he could be available for the next game, so I hold out hope that will be the case


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## fundy (Aug 26, 2022)

Norway, Netherlands and Switzerland. Some pleasant but pricey away destinations for Arsenal fans


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## Jimaroid (Aug 26, 2022)

Well we’ve signed a striker but is Neal Maupay any good? 🤷‍♀️ Stats suggest he may be as good as Richarlison but able to play more centrally, on paper that sounds promising.

Green shoots? Or just another weed?


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## fundy (Aug 26, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Well we’ve signed a striker but is Neal Maupay any good? 🤷‍♀️ Stats suggest he may be as good as Richarlison but able to play more centrally, on paper that sounds promising.

Green shoots? Or just another weed?
		
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weed imho, almost as repulsive as Richarlison too lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			weed imho, *almost as repulsive as Richarlison too lol*

Click to expand...

Surely not possible


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## fundy (Aug 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely not possible
		
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theres not many but Maupay is one of them lol


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## hairball_89 (Aug 27, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Well we’ve signed a striker but is Neal Maupay any good? 🤷‍♀️ Stats suggest he may be as good as Richarlison but able to play more centrally, on paper that sounds promising.

Green shoots? Or just another weed?
		
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If he could be trusted to reliably put the ball in the net Brighton wouldn't have sold him. 

As it is, Welbeck is the main man. Having spent a lot of time at the Amex the last 5/6 years, I think he could work well *playing off* Calvert Lewin, but as a replacement/option I'm not convinced he'll get anywhere near the goals you need. Which is good.


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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Well we’ve signed a striker but is Neal Maupay any good? 🤷‍♀️ Stats suggest he may be as good as Richarlison but able to play more centrally, on paper that sounds promising.

Green shoots? Or just another weed?
		
Click to expand...

Decent player but not a goalscorer by any stretch. Good at winding people up.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Decent player but not a goalscorer by any stretch. *Good at winding people up.*

Click to expand...

That’ll do it for me.


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## Dando (Aug 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely not possible
		
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He’s the love child of fatrick Reed, David Warner and Kevin Pieterson


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## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2022)

Strange off season for us. 


Serious investment going on, 

Areola brought in full time 11 million 
Downes 11 million 
Aguard 30 million 
Scamacca 36 million
Emerson 15 million 
Cornet 17 million 
Kehreri 10 million 


Suppose to be completing on that paquata for 50 million plus this weekend 

Strong rumours of 2-3 more to come in aswell..

Haven't touched the loan market yet so two bound to be loans


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## Fade and Die (Aug 27, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Strange off season for us.


Serious investment going on,

Areola brought in full time 11 million
Downes 11 million
Aguard 30 million
Scamacca 36 million
Emerson 15 million
Cornet 17 million
Kehreri 10 million


Suppose to be completing on that paquata for 50 million plus this weekend

Strong rumours of 2-3 more to come in aswell..

Haven't touched the loan market yet so two bound to be loans
		
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Would love to get Paquata in but often we stumble at the "Personal terms" part of the negotiations.

As you say, some serious investment however Sully won't be happy when he realises he's spent £120 Mill on strengthening the bench!

David Moyes sends message to West Ham’s summer signings after Brighton defeat - football.london 

How to get the newbies fired up. Put them down before they've even started. Way to go Moysie


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## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Would love to get Paquata in but often we stumble at the "Personal terms" part of the negotiations.

As you say, some serious investment however Sully won't be happy when he realises he's spent £120 Mill on strengthening the bench!

David Moyes sends message to West Ham’s summer signings after Brighton defeat - football.london 

How to get the newbies fired up. Put them down before they've even started. Way to go Moysie 

Click to expand...

Have to look further than the Dave's. The new guy Owns 27% which will trigger a take over..next year they can sell for no penalties so he seems to be investing in his new product


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## Swango1980 (Aug 27, 2022)

Well, a wine's a win I guess.

My real frustration is that Rashford, Elanga and Sancho can be a real threat when they have space to run into. However, when it isn't there, they offer virtually nothing, especially Rashford. They win absolutely nothing when a ball is played forward, and to be honest don't even compete for the ball. When opposition defenders have it, they make no serious attempt to win it back. All they do is a bit of fake running, making it look like they are trying. Therefore, the opposition get a huge amount of possession, as they win it back so ridiculously easy, and keep it easy.

When Ronaldo came on, suddenly he was able to win balls knocked forward, albeit he no longer has the pace that the others have.

Thankfully, the defence looks a bit more robust now, although very early days. 

Also noticed BT now awards Player of the Match rather than Man of the Match (as shown in their caption). Not sure when that changed, maybe when Graeme Souness revealed to the world that the word Man is incredibly offensive


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## Dando (Aug 27, 2022)

Any Bournemouth fans on here? 🤦🏻‍♂️


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## SteveW86 (Aug 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			Any Bournemouth fans on here? 🤦🏻‍♂️
		
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I’m just laughing at my BIL who had Salah captain in his fantasy team


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## BrianM (Aug 27, 2022)

No team should be getting pumped 9-0 at that level, amateur league you’d expect it, but the Premier League 😳


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 27, 2022)




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## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I’m just laughing at my BIL who had Salah captain in his fantasy team
		
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So did I. Did they not play him or something? You'd think with that many goals on offer he'd at least get an assist bouncing off his arse.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2022)

Not a red card anymore 🤷‍♂️




And how did they let Ederson get away with his mistake


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## Stuart_C (Aug 27, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I’m just laughing at my BIL who had Salah captain in his fantasy team
		
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Guilty🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤔


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not a red card anymore 🤷‍♂️

View attachment 44034


And how did they let Ederson get away with his mistake
		
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Still photos can look worse than it is.
Any videos?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not a red card anymore 🤷‍♂️

View attachment 44034


And how did they let Ederson get away with his mistake
		
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Well pulling hair apparently isn’t an offence according to Taylor and Dean so why should kicking it be any different… 🤔


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not a red card anymore 🤷‍♂️

View attachment 44034


And how did they let Ederson get away with his mistake
		
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They do seem to contradict themselves every week.
That’s a red imo.


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## 4LEX (Aug 28, 2022)

That's a bit of a grey area as Haaland's foot isn't raised above shoulder level and the Palace players head is very low. It's a mans game so let those ones go. Palace player should've chested it, dipping his head is unnatural.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not a red card anymore 🤷‍♂️

View attachment 44034


And how did they let Ederson get away with his mistake
		
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Regarding Haaland, it is not like he has seen a defender in front of him and decided to stick his foot in towards his face. He has simply put his foot up to get a ball, and defender has been brave, come in from his blind side, and tried to head it away. Not a red for me at all.

Surprised with the Ederson. The only way I think he got away with it was the ball was still touching his hand when it came off the striker. I didn't think it was, and one angle made it look like it was already released.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563681612210049026
We’re signing legitimate Brazilian internationals now apparently 🤷🏻‍♂️😅😳

Would have Been handy to have him available for Spurs today, mind 😬


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2022)

4LEX said:



			That's a bit of a grey area as Haaland's foot isn't raised above shoulder level and the Palace players head is very low. It's a mans game so let those ones go. Palace player should've chested it, dipping his head is unnatural.
		
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I was suprised nothing came of the Cancelo incident. But then again when it comes to football decisions nothing suprises me anymore.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2022)

2nd time i’ve seen Liverpool win 9-0, I hope i don’t have to wait another 32yrs to see it again.


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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 28, 2022)

4LEX said:



			That's a bit of a grey area as Haaland's foot isn't raised above shoulder level and the Palace players head is very low. It's a mans game so let those ones go. Palace player should've chested it, dipping his head is unnatural.
		
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Grey area??
His foot is even at his own chin level. They're not cheerleaders. Thats a dangerous tackle every day of the week.


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## fundy (Aug 28, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563681612210049026
We’re signing legitimate Brazilian internationals now apparently 🤷🏻‍♂️😅😳

Would have Been handy to have him available for Spurs today, mind 😬
		
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more gel needed


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Grey area??
His foot is even at his own chin level. They're not cheerleaders. Thats a dangerous tackle every day of the week.
		
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I think it’s a definite yellow.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 28, 2022)

4LEX said:



			That's a bit of a grey area as Haaland's foot isn't raised above shoulder level and the Palace players head is very low. It's a mans game so let those ones go. Palace player should've chested it, dipping his head is unnatural.
		
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Dipping your head is unnatural but having your foot 5 foot in the air is ok?


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Still photos can look worse than it is.
Any videos?
		
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I disagree somewhat with that.
A still photo shows just one frame of a video usually.
So it is not like that hasn’t happened it has and looks nasty ,which it was.
Video sometimes glosses over the main impact point.
That photo shows exactly the point of impact.
The striker must expect a defender to go for that or his boss will be dropping him.
Accidental yes ,dangerous also yes.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Grey area??
His foot is even at his own chin level. They're not cheerleaders. Thats a dangerous tackle every day of the week.
		
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It wasn't a tackle. He just put his foot in air to try and get control of the ball. The defending player was simply brave and running in to get his head there first.

Some people will be wanting to ban overhead kicks next.


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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It wasn't a tackle. He just put his foot in air to try and get control of the ball. The defending player was simply brave and running in to get his head there first.

Some people will be wanting to ban overhead kicks next.
		
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So how does he "get control of the ball" with his foot, studs up 5 feet in the air? What is he going to trap the ball against?
And yes, players have been punished for over head kicks in close proximity to opposing players.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Regarding Haaland, it is not like he has seen a defender in front of him and decided to stick his foot in towards his face. He has simply put his foot up to get a ball, and* defender has been brave, come in from his blind side,* and tried to head it away. Not a red for me at all.

Surprised with the Ederson. The only way I think he got away with it was the ball was still touching his hand when it came off the striker. I didn't think it was, and one angle made it look like it was already released.
		
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And yet when a defender clearing the ball has an attacker come in from his blind side & he cleans out the attacker it's a free kick every time; so why do attackers get a pass for the same thing?


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And yet when a defender clearing the ball has an attacker come in from his blind side & he cleans out the attacker it's a free kick every time; so why do attackers get a pass for the same thing?
		
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I never said a free kick shouldn't be given for a foul. I simply said it wasn't a red card offence.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 28, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And yet when a defender clearing the ball has an attacker come in from his blind side & he cleans out the attacker it's a free kick every time; so why do attackers get a pass for the same thing?
		
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Because they all let out a big girly scream,and because referees have never played the game they all fall for the theatrics.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2022)

Pretty sure Newcastle should had a stone wall penalty for a shirt pull their. However, the awful Lee Mason is on VAR and thought not. Bet it would have been given if Newcastle players really kicked up a fuss about it, forced VAR to have a more careful look


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## pokerjoke (Aug 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			2nd time i’ve seen Liverpool win 9-0, I hope i don’t have to wait another 32yrs to see it again.
		
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Hope you see a lot more 2-1 to Utd instead 😀


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Pretty sure Newcastle should had a stone wall penalty for a shirt pull their. However, the awful Lee Mason is on VAR and thought not. Bet it would have been given if Newcastle players really kicked up a fuss about it, forced VAR to have a more careful look
		
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They have been told not to harass the ref though!
VAR needs to do it’s job so players don’t have to complain.
I agree that’s a pen all day


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			They have been told not to harass the ref though!
VAR needs to do it’s job so players don’t have to complain.
I agree that’s a pen all day
		
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Harrassment is totally unnecessary as each decision should be checked. How they could check that and say crack on, nothing to see


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			They have been told not to harass the ref though!
VAR needs to do it’s job so players don’t have to complain.
I agree that’s a pen all day
		
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Indeed. Love to see players get on with it, instead of whinging every few seconds. Fair play to them. 

And, VAR should do it's job properly. It doesn't though. Basically, Lee Mason will have seen it and, because no one was whinging, felt the safest option would he to stay quiet. After all, indicating it could be a penalty is going to be more of a talking point than ignoring it. Yet, if players had created a massive fuss, Lee Mason will have realised it has become a huge topic within the game, and not asking for a review would suddenly be the controversial decision. 

I don't think you could get a more obvious shirt pull on this occasion. Mason should just do his job, instead of trying to have an easy life.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2022)

2 pretty decent strikes in the Wolves v Toon match 😯


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## Jensen (Aug 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not a red card anymore 🤷‍♂️

View attachment 44034


And how did they let Ederson get away with his mistake
		
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Not a red for me either as the Palace player is stooping with his head low.

With regards Ederson, I think that was the correct decision. Similar to obstruction when the keeper kicks the ball out of his hands only for the player to get in front of him


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Not a red for me either as the Palace player is stooping with his head low.

With regards Ederson, I think that was the correct decision. Similar to obstruction when the keeper kicks the ball out of his hands only for the player to get in front of him
		
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With Ederson, I get that if the attacker chases the keeper and tries to block him. That would be a free kick. However, that didn't happen here. Ederson was desperate to pass it quickly, and the attacker just reacted by blocking the pass. I'd think the keeper is fine to get the game going quickly, but if an opponent is already in front of them they should be aware of the risk that they could intercept it


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2022)

4LEX said:



			That's a bit of a grey area as Haaland's foot isn't raised above shoulder level and the Palace players head is very low. It's a mans game so let those ones go. Palace player should've chested it, dipping his head is unnatural.
		
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Yeah, it's never a red card. On the video you see Haaland just sticks his foot up to control the ball, and the defender comes from his blind spot and sticks his head in there. Foul maybe but never a red. Haaland's a tall lad. Crouch used to get done for it all the time when I watched him at Spurs - he puts his leg up to control a high ball, defender stoops in to head it and it looks like a "high foot" every time.


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2022)

Not the greatest first half from us. Forest playing most of the football, but we do tend to pick off teams that try and do that, as opposed to the sitting back teams that we struggle to break down. Bit lucky that Dean Henderson wasn't really awake 5 minutes in though.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Indeed. Love to see players get on with it, instead of whinging every few seconds. Fair play to them.

And, VAR should do it's job properly. It doesn't though. Basically, Lee Mason will have seen it and, because no one was whinging, felt the safest option would he to stay quiet. After all, indicating it could be a penalty is going to be more of a talking point than ignoring it. Yet, if players had created a massive fuss, Lee Mason will have realised it has become a huge topic within the game, and not asking for a review would suddenly be the controversial decision.

I don't think you could get a more obvious shirt pull on this occasion. Mason should just do his job, instead of trying to have an easy life.
		
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That’s why players start diving .
The ref dosnt give it so I will dive to embellish it.
Then you get “ he should have gone down” for the shirt pull and had him by the wrist.
VAR is not fit for purpose.

Not sure the ref could see the shirt pull given his position but no excuse for VAR.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2022)

It seems pushing in the back is only a foul if the team go onto score from the said push🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2022)

Forest look to have been playing decent football. Pity they've no cutting edge at the moment, and Kane makes a very accomplished finish


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2022)

Great fun at the City Ground. The crowd are really playing their part. Another team in need of an out and out striker, approach play is excellent though.


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Great fun at the City Ground. The crowd are really playing their part. Another team in need of an out and out striker, approach play is excellent though.
		
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They've got two on the bench haven't they??

Top save from Henderson, redeemed himself.


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## IanM (Aug 28, 2022)

Nice to see a footy shirt without a big daft advert on the front!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			They've got two on the bench haven't they??

Top save from Henderson, redeemed himself.
		
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I don't know. If they do then they need to bring one on. Lots of pretty stuff, no real edge. They look good but you need to score goals, time to state the obvious 😆.

I loved the way Henderson played the crowd as well, good entertainment. 

Do you like watching spurs play rope a dope? You are better than that aren't you?


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2022)

Richarlison a complete and utter fairy.


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't know. If they do then they need to bring one on. Lots of pretty stuff, no real edge. They look good but you need to score goals, time to state the obvious 😆.

I loved the way Henderson played the crowd as well, good entertainment.

Do you like watching spurs play rope a dope? You are better than that aren't you?
		
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Emmanuel Dennis is on for them now.

I quite enjoy counter attacking football generally, but we've just not been particularly sharp today. Poor efforts and poor final balls. Forest have been the better side in football terms for sure.


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2022)

There you go, hopefully that wraps it up. Not vintage but potentially another 3 points. Great ball by Richarlison to be fair.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Emmanuel Dennis is on for them now.

I quite enjoy counter attacking football generally, *but we've just not been particularly sharp today. *Poor efforts and poor final balls. Forest have been the better side in football terms for sure.
		
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Er 🤔😳😉👍


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2022)

O dear Forest. Certainly decent football, but as others said, no end product. Then, leaving Harry Kane alone next to the goal line is criminal for a defender


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Er 🤔😳😉👍
		
Click to expand...

I was saying to my dad in WhatsApp it was worth taking Son and Kulusevski off as they were the culprits really. Richarlison the sub with a superb ball there. 👍🏻


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2022)

Seriously do Spurs players do pantomime, a hand in the face and he has gone down like he is paralyised. 😳


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I was saying to my dad in WhatsApp it was worth taking Son and Kulusevski off as they were the culprits really. Richarlison the sub with a superb ball there. 👍🏻
		
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That ball from Richarlison was him at his best, he has been brought into take spurs to another level. His antics will hurt them as he will be targeted if he don’t sort himself out.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Seriously do Spurs players do pantomime, a hand in the face and he has gone down like he is paralyised. 😳
		
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Then you see how strong he can be when he barged the Forest lad off the ball for the 2nd goal. Refs shouldn’t be falling for it.


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Seriously do Spurs players do pantomime, a hand in the face and he has gone down like he is paralyised. 😳
		
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Two up within minutes left, it's just standard timewasting that any team would have done I'm afraid. 🤷🏻‍♂️



Tashyboy said:



			That ball from Richarlison was him at his best, he has been brought into take spurs to another level. His antics will hurt them as he will be targeted if he don’t sort himself out.
		
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Yeah, the kick-ups bit was nonsense, what on earth was he doing? Thinks he's Neymar. Not someone you really want to look up to.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563944218904723458
Quite satisfying to see him lumped like that


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## Swango1980 (Aug 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1563944218904723458
Quite satisfying to see him lumped like that
		
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And, in all honesty, I think Richarlison enjoyed it as well. He clearly loves being a wind up merchant, so if opponents react by smashing into him, job done.


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## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			And, in all honesty, I think Richarlison enjoyed it as well. He clearly loves being a wind up merchant, so if opponents react by smashing into him, job done.
		
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Yep, it completely bailed him out as well. Having done the pointless kick-ups, that casual pass he made with his left foot actually gave the ball away, so winning a free kick saved him. I just cannot understand why he did that, having made a positive impact with a wonderful assist - setting up the chance of him starting next game since Son has been out of sorts - he ruins it with some unfocussed sloppy play which I'm sure will stick in Conte's mind. No brains.


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## Don Barzini (Aug 28, 2022)

Well, as a Forest fan I’m not too disappointed. 

Literally every so-called expert was predicting we’d get “thrashed” today. Yeah we lost, but I thought we put in a good performance. We certainly didn’t get rolled over. We made it difficult for them and had more possession. 

We lacked the killer touch certainly, but I’m hopeful that will come with time. Despite the headline of a 2-0 loss, there’s plenty to be pleased about today from our point of view. Spurs are a class act at the moment and we worked them hard.


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## fundy (Aug 28, 2022)

"Bruno Lage has confirmed that Willy Boly was in the squad for today's game but the player failed to show up at Molineux because he wants to leave."

Let him rot in the reserves, utter disgrace if true


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## DaveR (Aug 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Still photos can look worse than it is.
Any videos?
		
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Why do you reply to him as he always seems to ignore you?


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 28, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			Well, as a Forest fan I’m not too disappointed.

Literally every so-called expert was predicting we’d get “thrashed” today. Yeah we lost, but I thought we put in a good performance. We certainly didn’t get rolled over. We made it difficult for them and had more possession.

We lacked the killer touch certainly, but I’m hopeful that will come with time. Despite the headline of a 2-0 loss, there’s plenty to be pleased about today from our point of view. Spurs are a class act at the moment and we worked them hard.
		
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exactly this. 

Feared the worst after Deano apparently decided to start the game at 16:35 😅 but we grew into the game, looked solid AF in midfield (without our two best midfielders starting) and simply need that final ball to come. Which it will; Most of these players have been together less than 2 months.

On another day, Yatesy doesn’t miss that header (he hardly ever does) and Williams hits the target (which he has done most games). 

can’t be too upset at all with today. The difference was mostly a world class finisher in Harry Kane. If we’re playing like this after only 4 games with a completely new squad, then I’m excited about what’s to come.


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## backwoodsman (Aug 29, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			Well, as a Forest fan I’m not too disappointed.

Literally every so-called expert was predicting we’d get “thrashed” today. Yeah we lost, but I thought we put in a good performance. We certainly didn’t get rolled over. We made it difficult for them and had more possession.

We lacked the killer touch certainly, but I’m hopeful that will come with time. Despite the headline of a 2-0 loss, there’s plenty to be pleased about today from our point of view. Spurs are a class act at the moment and we worked them hard.
		
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Agree - some decent encouraging signs but we do need to learn to be a lot sharper in front of goal. Harry Kane gave us a lesson in how to finish! The disappointing bit was six yellow card.  Six for gawds sake!


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 29, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Agree - some decent encouraging signs but we do need to learn to be a lot sharper in front of goal. Harry Kane gave us a lesson in how to finish! The disappointing bit was six yellow card.  Six for gawds sake!
		
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The finishing will come. Personally, I think Surridge should start up top. If he’s fed the ball, he doesn’t miss. But in general these players are still learning to play with one another. It’s coming. Might get a lucky point against City on Wed but most importantly, 3 points against Bournemouth next weekend has to be the goal; anything else wil be a disappointment as they are utterly dreadful.


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## Don Barzini (Aug 29, 2022)

So on MOTD2 last night the pundits were having a bit of a laugh about Dean Henderson’s celebrations after the penalty save. I’ve also seen people criticising him on social media.

Question is….what’s wrong with a goalie celebrating when they make a good save?! Especially in circumstances like that? He saved a penalty against one of the best penalty takers in the world, his team are still in the game at that point and the crowd are roaring him on like he’s a hero (which from our point of view, he is!)

If an outfield player scores a goal he’ll often engage in wild celebration - often having rehearsed or planned it in advance. For a keeper, surely making a cracking save is his equivalent of an outfield player scoring a goal?

I realise it’s not the “done thing”. But why shouldn’t it be?!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			So on MOTD2 last night the pundits were having a bit of a laugh about Dean Henderson’s celebrations after the penalty save. I’ve also seen people criticising him on social media.

Question is….what’s wrong with a goalie celebrating when they make a good save?! Especially in circumstances like that? He saved a penalty against one of the best penalty takers in the world, his team are still in the game at that point and the crowd are roaring him on like he’s a hero (which from our point of view, he is!)

If an outfield player scores a goal he’ll often engage in wild celebration - often having rehearsed or planned it in advance. For a keeper, surely making a cracking save is his equivalent of an outfield player scoring a goal?

I realise it’s not the “done thing”. But why shouldn’t it be?! 

Click to expand...

I loved it. He wasn't mocking Kane or Spurs, he was whipping up the home crowd. It's an entertainment business, he was providing great entertainment and they lapped it up. Carry on Dean 👍


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## pauljames87 (Aug 29, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			So on MOTD2 last night the pundits were having a bit of a laugh about Dean Henderson’s celebrations after the penalty save. I’ve also seen people criticising him on social media.

Question is….what’s wrong with a goalie celebrating when they make a good save?! Especially in circumstances like that? He saved a penalty against one of the best penalty takers in the world, his team are still in the game at that point and the crowd are roaring him on like he’s a hero (which from our point of view, he is!)

If an outfield player scores a goal he’ll often engage in wild celebration - often having rehearsed or planned it in advance. For a keeper, surely making a cracking save is his equivalent of an outfield player scoring a goal?

I realise it’s not the “done thing”. But why shouldn’t it be?! 

Click to expand...

He did same against rice, so many keepers do it

Even do with a good save for a corner 

Dont see the issue


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 29, 2022)

Yep, no issue with Deano or any keeper doing that. 
Also, Don Marinakis needs to give United whatever they want for Henderson. He’s worth every penny (1st goal aside 😅)


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## Swingalot (Aug 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			2nd time i’ve seen Liverpool win 9-0, I hope i don’t have to wait another 32yrs to see it again.
		
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Don't remind me. When Geoff Thomas skied a penalty out of the ground at 0-7 the pain turned to laughter.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 29, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			So on MOTD2 last night the pundits were having a bit of a laugh about Dean Henderson’s celebrations after the penalty save. I’ve also seen people criticising him on social media.

Question is….what’s wrong with a goalie celebrating when they make a good save?! Especially in circumstances like that? He saved a penalty against one of the best penalty takers in the world, his team are still in the game at that point and the crowd are roaring him on like he’s a hero (which from our point of view, he is!)

If an outfield player scores a goal he’ll often engage in wild celebration - often having rehearsed or planned it in advance. For a keeper, surely making a cracking save is his equivalent of an outfield player scoring a goal?

I realise it’s not the “done thing”. But why shouldn’t it be?! 

Click to expand...

Watching the game on the box yesterday, before the penalty was taken, the commentator mentioned Kane had scored with his last 21 penalties.. To save a penalty against Kane is a very rare feat and one he should be chuffed about. Oddly enough if he had scored we would now be talking about how thick the defender was handling the ball in the first place. That is now forgotten.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 29, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Don't remind me. When Geoff Thomas skied a penalty out of the ground at 0-7 the pain turned to laughter.
		
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Did you hear Ian Wright talking about the 9-0 defeat the other night on MOTD. He said he was in tears and embarrassed.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Watching the game on the box yesterday, before the penalty was taken, the commentator mentioned Kane had scored with his last 21 penalties.. To save a penalty against Kane is a very rare feat and one he should be chuffed about. *Oddly enough if he had scored we would now be talking about how thick the defender was handling the ball in the first place.* That is now forgotten.
		
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Very unlike Steve Cook. Was a bit of a scramble/tangle and he wasn’t fully in control of his limbs I don’t think. More accidental, unlike Scott McKenna who definitely turned into a goalkeeper against West Ham 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



*Oddly enough if he had scored we would now be talking about how thick the defender was handling the ball in the first place. *That is now forgotten.
		
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Good point, yes he was thick. Really thick


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 29, 2022)

Don Barzini said:



			So on MOTD2 last night the pundits were having a bit of a laugh about Dean Henderson’s celebrations after the penalty save. I’ve also seen people criticising him on social media.

Question is….what’s wrong with a goalie celebrating when they make a good save?! Especially in circumstances like that? He saved a penalty against one of the best penalty takers in the world, his team are still in the game at that point and the crowd are roaring him on like he’s a hero (which from our point of view, he is!)

If an outfield player scores a goal he’ll often engage in wild celebration - often having rehearsed or planned it in advance. For a keeper, surely making a cracking save is his equivalent of an outfield player scoring a goal?

I realise it’s not the “done thing”. But why shouldn’t it be?! 

Click to expand...

Totally agree.
It’s entertainment after all.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 29, 2022)

Enjoying Spurs fans trying to defend Richi over coffee this morning. Today’s beans are a fresh blend of sweet revenge that leave lovely salty flavours on the palate.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Watching the game on the box yesterday, before the penalty was taken, the commentator mentioned Kane had scored with his last 21 penalties.. To save a penalty against Kane is a very rare feat and one he should be chuffed about. Oddly enough if he had scored we would now be talking about how thick the defender was handling the ball in the first place. That is now forgotten.
		
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To be fair the other Forest defender pushes Kane into him but still a bad mistake.
Leaving Kane on his own in the six yd box is more of a problem imo.
The defence just seemed to switch off as they thought the ball had been cleared.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			To be fair the other Forest defender pushes Kane into him but still a bad mistake.
Leaving Kane on his own in the six yd box is more of a problem imo.
*The defence just seemed to switch off as they thought the ball had been cleared*.
		
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yep; lord knows what Toffolo and Kouyaté were doing, in particular. 😩😩 both goals massively unavoidable. Oh well, plenty of positives. We’ll just pump City 9-0 in retaliation on Wednesday 🥴🥴😂


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## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Don't remind me. When Geoff Thomas skied a penalty out of the ground at 0-7 the pain turned to laughter.
		
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Thomas missed the pen at 6 nil, Perry Suckling in goal will never be forgotten🤣🤣

A little teaser for you, no googling!!

Who did Liverpool knock off top spot after that result?


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## Jensen (Aug 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Thomas missed the pen at 6 nil, Perry Suckling in goal will never be forgotten🤣🤣

A little teaser for you, no googling!!

Who did Liverpool knock off top spot after that result?
		
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Everton?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Everton?
		
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No


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## Swingalot (Aug 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Thomas missed the pen at 6 nil, Perry Suckling in goal will never be forgotten🤣🤣

A little teaser for you, no googling!!

Who did Liverpool knock off top spot after that result?
		
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6.0, 7-0,...tbf I'd lost count my then! 

I'll go with a smaller club around that era who had a decent team. Oldham?


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## Swingalot (Aug 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Did you hear Ian Wright talking about the 9-0 defeat the other night on MOTD. He said he was in tears and embarrassed.
		
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Yeah was interesting. I can imagine him as well, was a fierce competitor.  Brilliant player. Broke my heart when he left, was my hero as kid. Only missed 1 game he played for Palace, he was electric.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			6.0, 7-0,...tbf I'd lost count my then!

I'll go with a smaller club around that era who had a decent team. Oldham?
		
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Haha

It was Milwall.....


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## fundy (Aug 29, 2022)

Good to see Everton have replaced one of the most disliked players in the premier league with one of the most disliked players in the premier league lol.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 29, 2022)

Wonder where Barkley will end up 🤔


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## Dando (Aug 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Wonder where Barkley will end up 🤔
		
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Onlyfans probably


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Wonder where Barkley will end up 🤔
		
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A real shame he hasn't kicked on. A real talent that stagnated at Chelsea. I wonder if someone like Palace or Brentford would be a good place for him. Wherever he goes, he needs to start playing week in week out.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A real shame he hasn't kicked on. A real talent that stagnated at Chelsea. I wonder if someone like Palace or Brentford would be a good place for him. Wherever he goes, he needs to start playing week in week out.
		
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Quite a few players have stagnated at Chelsea.


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## fundy (Aug 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Quite a few players have stagnated at Chelsea.
		
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Hudson Odoi the one that stands out for me, looked a potential world beater a few years ago, massive rep coming through the ranks


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## fundy (Aug 29, 2022)

Any truth Everton turned down £25 plus Gallagher and Broja for Anthony Gordon???? If so why?

Talk that Toney is available for £40m, surely everyone should be forming an orderly queue at that price!!!


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## 4LEX (Aug 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Any truth Everton turned down *£25* plus Gallagher and Broja for Anthony Gordon???? If so why?

Talk that Toney is available for £40m, surely everyone should be forming an orderly queue at that price!!!
		
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£25 won't buy you much these days, it'll power the microwave for one meal at best  If you're a selling club, you don't sell 3 days before the window closes. You wait until the end and the price will creep up and up. You also have a deal done in the background so clubs can't fleece you with the money on a replacement. Then again it's Everton so who knows


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## fundy (Aug 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			£25 won't buy you much these days, it'll power the microwave for one meal at best  If you're a selling club, you don't sell 3 days before the window closes. You wait until the end and the price will creep up and up. You also have a deal done in the background so clubs can't fleece you with the money on a replacement. Then again it's Everton so who knows 

Click to expand...


still an ok deal at £25 lol, but I did mean £25m 

this isnt just a sale though is it, its a swap plus cash where they could solve a few of their problems and get some money in the kitty to spend in the next few days........ no youre right, it is Everton 🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Quite a few players have stagnated at Chelsea.
		
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Probably the worst club for collecting and then not using / developing young talent. Whilst the money is good, it isn't a great long term career plan. Anthony Gordon needs to take this into account.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hudson Odoi the one that stands out for me, looked a potential world beater a few years ago, massive rep coming through the ranks
		
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Victor Moses too 😁


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Any truth Everton turned down £25 plus Gallagher and Broja for Anthony Gordon???? If so why?

Talk that Toney is available for £40m, surely everyone should be forming an orderly queue at that price!!!
		
Click to expand...




Lord Tyrion said:



			Probably the worst club for collecting and then not using / developing young talent. Whilst the money is good, it isn't a great long term career plan. Anthony Gordon needs to take this into account.
		
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It's just paper talk still, only from one source so far. No real momentum in it so far. I'd be amazed if that was the deal and they said no. Everton need both those types of players plus money, it's a no brainer. 

As for Toney, that's a steal.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Probably the worst club for collecting and then not using / developing young talent. Whilst the money is good, it isn't a great long term career plan. Anthony Gordon needs to take this into account.
		
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I admire how ruthless Chelsea are with players who aren’t good enough though.

That said, they frequently change their managers so it’s not surprising the turnover of players.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Any truth Everton turned down £25 plus Gallagher and Broja for Anthony Gordon???? If so why?

Talk that Toney is available for £40m, surely everyone should be forming an orderly queue at that price!!!
		
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Apparently Gordon has no desire in leaving Everton. I don’t think he’s worth anywhere near what’s been touted. Gallagher would be an improvement IMO. Not sure about Borja neither though I haven’t seen much of him.

Toney would be a bargain at £40m, just not sure he’d cut it at a top 4/6 side.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I admire how ruthless Chelsea are with players who aren’t good enough though.

That said, they frequently change their managers so it’s not surprising the turnover of players.
		
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Very hard to settle there I'd imagine, you need to be a certain type of character. I don't think you are going to get much of an arm around your shoulder and if you don't work quickly then you won't get much chance to grow into the team. It's worked for them but they don't half burn through money and players.


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## fundy (Aug 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Apparently Gordon has no desire in leaving Everton. I don’t think he’s worth anywhere near what’s been touted. Gallagher would be an improvement IMO. Not sure about Borja neither though I haven’t seen much of him.

Toney would be a bargain at £40m, just not sure he’d cut it at a top 4/6 side.
		
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Just dont see the hype with Gordon, maybe Im wrong but not seen anything that makes him more than a 20m player apart from being British. I like Broja, think he'd do a decent job for mid prem sides and think Gallagher has the potential to be top class

Id have Toney at Arsenal in a heartbeat, have said that for a couple of years


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## 4LEX (Aug 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Just dont see the hype with Gordon, maybe Im wrong but not seen anything that makes him more than a 20m player apart from being British. I like Broja, think he'd do a decent job for mid prem sides and think Gallagher has the potential to be top class

Id have Toney at Arsenal in a heartbeat, have said that for a couple of years
		
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Toney would be ideal at Arsenal as he'd offer something different plus Jesus can work out wide. The main issue with Arsenal is if Jesus gets injured the drop off is so vast. Can't see Arsenal spending that after giving Nketiah a big new deal though..


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## Swingalot (Aug 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha

It was Milwall.....
		
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Blimey, a much smaller club then.


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## Orikoru (Aug 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A real shame he hasn't kicked on. A real talent that stagnated at Chelsea. I wonder if someone like Palace or Brentford would be a good place for him. Wherever he goes, he needs to start playing week in week out.
		
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I never rated Barkley that much. Great ability with his feet but no football brain, so often seems to make the wrong decision. Could certainly see him going back to Everton now. Not surprised he didn't succeed at Chelsea, I think most people could have seen that coming.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			Blimey, a much smaller club then.
		
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Yeah not as small as Palace though😉


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## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Just dont see the hype with Gordon, maybe Im wrong but not seen anything that makes him more than a 20m player apart from being British. I like Broja, think he'd do a decent job for mid prem sides and think Gallagher has the potential to be top class

Id have Toney at Arsenal in a heartbeat, have said that for a couple of years
		
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I dont neither, though if he stayed on his feet we may see more of his actual ability. 

I have a real dislike for him though after seeing him perfect the diving along with the scream last season. 

Gallagher was quality last season for Palace, i praised them a fair bit last season under Viera. A completely different side from the tripe Hodgson served up.

I feel for Gallagher though, Tuchel rang him  during the off season and told him he wanted him at Chelsea this  season. After a couple of games he's being touted to leave, very strange.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hudson Odoi the one that stands out for me, looked a potential world beater a few years ago, massive rep coming through the ranks
		
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A ruptured Achilles’ tendon does tend to stunt your progress.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 30, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62695883

Have to admit I havent really seen much of him. Lots of excitement around this signing but lets see how he performs

33 caps for brazil by the age of 25 isnt too bad I guess

very impressed with our transfer business tho 

Keheri , most used german player since flick took over (can also play RB, CB, LB and CDM so our james milner)
Aguerd 25 caps for morocco
Scamacca 7 caps for italy and suppose to be their new number 9
Cornet 29 caps for ivory coast and already premier league proven
Emerson 27 caps for italy and knows the league 
Areola 3 caps for france and was our star keeper in europa last season

add downes into the mix for a young back up midfielder 

we look much stronger in depth and ive not see us add quality all at once.. 

£179 million spent


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Quite a few players have stagnated at *Chelsea*.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



*Probably the worst club for collecting and then not using / developing young talent.* Whilst the money is good, *it isn't a great long term career plan.* Anthony Gordon needs to take this into account.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			Very hard to settle there I'd imagine, you need to be a certain type of character. I don't think you are going to get much of an arm around your shoulder and if you don't work quickly then you won't get much chance to grow into the team. It's worked for them but they don't half burn through money and players.
		
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Really?

https://www.scoutedftbl.com/best-young-football-players/academies/

What differentiates Chelsea’s academy to almost every other is the readiness of the players it producdes for senior football: Cobham graduates are often well-rounded players technically, tactically and physically. *That enables them to step straight into senior football as teenagers at different levels, whether it be League Two, the Championship, or a smaller European league.*

Chelsea’s loan policy has been the subject of much criticism over the years, but* it consistently provides young professionals whith invaluable opportunities to develop in competitive environments.* *Ultimately, it furthers careers* and is a significant asset-generator for the club.

https://lastwordonsports.com/football/2021/10/27/best-football-academies-in-europe/

Only one English academy has produced more players currently playing top level European football, and one other English academy has the same number according to this article.  So maybe they don't make it with us, but they make it.

Not quite the hell hole that you'd have us believe then? 

Still, hopefully Anthony Gordon reads this and keeps his Teflon soled boots at Goodison.  If there is any truth in the rumour that we are offering Gallagher, Broja & cash for him I'll be extremely disappointed.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Really?

https://www.scoutedftbl.com/best-young-football-players/academies/

What differentiates Chelsea’s academy to almost every other is the readiness of the players it producdes for senior football: Cobham graduates are often well-rounded players technically, tactically and physically. *That enables them to step straight into senior football as teenagers at different levels, whether it be League Two, the Championship, or a smaller European league.*

Chelsea’s loan policy has been the subject of much criticism over the years, but* it consistently provides young professionals whith invaluable opportunities to develop in competitive environments.* *Ultimately, it furthers careers* and is a significant asset-generator for the club.

https://lastwordonsports.com/football/2021/10/27/best-football-academies-in-europe/

Only one English academy has produced more players currently playing top level European football, and one other English academy has the same number according to this article.  So maybe they don't make it with us, but they make it.

Not quite the hell hole that you'd have us believe then? 

Still, hopefully Anthony Gordon reads this and keeps his Teflon soled boots at Goodison.  If there is any truth in the rumour that we are offering Gallagher, Broja & cash for him I'll be extremely disappointed.
		
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You buy in some of the best in the world, scouring the world, at both a young age and then late teens, you accumulate young talent (as do Real, Barcelona, etc), so it's no wonder so many ultimately make it.  They just rarely do it with you. To maximise their potential they have to leave. That's not something to be proud about.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You buy in some of the best in the world, scouring the world, at both a young age and then late teens, you accumulate young talent (as do Real, Barcelona, etc), so it's no wonder so many ultimately make it.  They just rarely do it with you. To maximise their potential they have to leave. That's not something to be proud about.
		
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Going to go out on a limb here and defend Chelsea a bit.

Yes they hoover up a lot of young talent but they are willing to take the risk on the players 

Back in the day teams could sign players in academies from further afield , we had Micheal Carrick from Newcastle ofc .. now you have to be a certain distance from the club.. so really it's the same as the old day it's just local clubs will get a bit of cash for their young players being signed up by chelsea etc rather than the academies just taking the best talents


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You buy in some of the best in the world, you accumulate young talent (as do Real, Barcelona, City etc), so it's no wonder so many ultimately make it. They just rarely do it with you. To maximise their potential they have to leave. That's not something to be proud about.
		
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So how many academy graduates in the City team at the moment then; does it beat the 5 we had in the starting line up on Saturday?  And Barcelona have just taken one of our academy graduates on a free.

Given the percentage of apprentices that make it in football, and the level at which we aim to be, there's no shame at all in the fact that players have to leave to maximise their potential.

If you view Tammy Abraham at Roma, Fikayo Tomori at AC Milan, Tina Livramento at Southampton, Nathan Are at Manchester City, Marc Guehi ay Crystal Palace, Tariq Lamptey at Brighton, Andreas Christensen at Barcelona, Ryan Bertrand at Leicester, Dominic Solanke at Bournemouth (via Liverpool), Bertrand Traore at Aston Villa, Ola Aina at Fulham and Mason Mount, Conor Gallagher, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Trevoh Chalobah and Reece James at Chelsea as evidence of failure of the academy then you're either a very hard taskmaster or you have no concept of how hard it is to make it at that level.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 30, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			So how many academy graduates in the City team at the moment then; does it beat the 5 we had in the starting line up on Saturday?  And Barcelona have just taken one of our academy graduates on a free.

Given the percentage of apprentices that make it in football, and the level at which we aim to be, there's no shame at all in the fact that players have to leave to maximise their potential.

If you view Tammy Abraham at Roma, Fikayo Tomori at AC Milan, Tina Livramento at Southampton, Marc Guehi ay Crystal Palace, Tariq Lamptey at Brighton, Andreas Christensen at Barcelona, Ryan Bertrand at Leicester, Dominic Solanke at Bournemouth (via Liverpool), Bertrand Traore at Aston Villa, Ola Aina at Fulham and Mason Mount, Conor Gallagher, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Trevoh Chalobah and Reece James at Chelsea as evidence of failure of the academy then you're either a very hard taskmaster or you have no concept of how hard it is to make it at that level.
		
Click to expand...

you have missed one. Declan Rice. Club captain , 171 premier league appearances by 23.. 32 england caps .. he is very much a chelsea product that we just got by chance .. i mean chelsea have made secret they want him back


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## GreiginFife (Aug 30, 2022)

So who had Scott Parker as first managerial casualty then?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			you have missed one. Declan Rice. Club captain , 171 premier league appearances by 23.. 32 england caps .. he is very much a chelsea product that we just got by chance .. i mean chelsea have made secret they want him back
		
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I didn't miss him, I just didn't think we could necessarily claim the credit for one we released as a 14 year old.  all the others I believe we kept up to senior level.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 30, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			So who had Scott Parker as first managerial casualty then?
		
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Not me & possibly harsh; after an opening day win over Villa, they've lost at home to a resurgent Arsenal and away to Man City & Liverpool.  It's not like they've gifted points to relegation rivals.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 30, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not me & possibly harsh; after an opening day win over Villa, they've lost at home to a resurgent Arsenal and away to Man City & Liverpool.  It's not like they've gifted points to relegation rivals.
		
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From the statement I think it's less about results and more about his "outspoken attitude" regarding the way the club do business.


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## Orikoru (Aug 30, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not me & possibly harsh; after an opening day win over Villa, they've lost at home to a resurgent Arsenal and away to Man City & Liverpool.  It's not like they've gifted points to relegation rivals.
		
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Jesus. Tough crowd or what? I get that they conceded a bucket-load, but really his focus must have been to simply get those out of the way and focus on the games afterwards. Can't believe they've not at least given him a stab in the next two, against Wolves and Forest, as they would have been a fairer test.


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## BrianM (Aug 30, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			So who had Scott Parker as first managerial casualty then?
		
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That’s an absolute shocker, 4 games and tough ones at that.
No team should be getting pumped 9-0 though, maybe the board thought he lost the players after that.
Theres ways of getting beat but not like that, still think it’s tough on Scott Parker, I’d imagine he’ll get another crack in the Championship though.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Jesus. Tough crowd or what? I get that they conceded a bucket-load, but really his focus must have been to simply get those out of the way and focus on the games afterwards. Can't believe they've not at least given him a stab in the next two, against Wolves and Forest, as they would have been a fairer test.
		
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BrianM said:



			That’s an absolute shocker, 4 games and tough ones at that.
No team should be getting pumped 9-0 though, maybe the board thought he lost the players after that.
Theres ways of getting beat but not like that, still think it’s tough on Scott Parker, I’d imagine he’ll get another crack in the Championship though.
		
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From the Statement 

*"However, in order for us to keep progressing as a team and a Club as a whole, it is unconditional that we are aligned in our strategy to run the club sustainably. We must also show belief in and respect for one another. "*

This reads to me less about the results and more about his approach to speaking to the media about the club/players.


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## Orikoru (Aug 30, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			From the Statement

*"However, in order for us to keep progressing as a team and a Club as a whole, it is unconditional that we are aligned in our strategy to run the club sustainably. We must also show belief in and respect for one another. "*

This reads to me less about the results and more about his approach to speaking to the media about the club/players.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough. It's not like he's wrong though, their squad is poor and never going to get results against City, Liverpool etc.


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## Swango1980 (Aug 30, 2022)

BrianM said:



			That’s an absolute shocker, 4 games and tough ones at that.
No team should be getting pumped 9-0 though, maybe the board thought he lost the players after that.
Theres ways of getting beat but not like that, still think it’s tough on Scott Parker, I’d imagine he’ll get another crack in the Championship though.
		
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Probably got rid of him for the three stripe pattern on his sleeve.


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## Don Barzini (Aug 30, 2022)

Seems harsh on Scott Parker. Even with those comments, you'd think he might get excused for them after being on the wrong end of a 9-0 loss. Who knows what was subsequently said behind the scences though, I suppose.

Who's gonna come in for him then....?


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## Tashyboy (Aug 30, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			So how many academy graduates in the City team at the moment then; does it beat the 5 we had in the starting line up on Saturday?  And Barcelona have just taken one of our academy graduates on a free.

Given the percentage of apprentices that make it in football, and the level at which we aim to be, there's no shame at all in the fact that players have to leave to maximise their potential.

If you view Tammy Abraham at Roma, Fikayo Tomori at AC Milan, Tina Livramento at Southampton, Nathan Are at Manchester City, Marc Guehi ay Crystal Palace, Tariq Lamptey at Brighton, Andreas Christensen at Barcelona, Ryan Bertrand at Leicester, Dominic Solanke at Bournemouth (via Liverpool), Bertrand Traore at Aston Villa, Ola Aina at Fulham and Mason Mount, Conor Gallagher, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Trevoh Chalobah and Reece James at Chelsea as evidence of failure of the academy then you're either a very hard taskmaster or you have no concept of how hard it is to make it at that level.
		
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City have a minimum of 6 academy players in the squad. Another two ( Liam Delap and Mcatee) are out on loan. I suspect the academy for Chelsea is very fruitful in raising money for the club as Citys is. City now seem to have an automatic sell on clause in all the academy players they sell, usually attached with a Buy back clause. 👍


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## GreiginFife (Aug 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Fair enough. It's not like he's wrong though, their squad is poor and never going to get results against City, Liverpool etc.
		
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I'm not disagreeing. However, having read a few other sources it seems that his "outspokenness" is not isolated to just that 9-0 defeat and he has, supposedly, made other comments about the clubs seeming unwillingness to part with the cash whilst others (Both Fulham and Forrest were compared) are making hay, so to speak.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 30, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			So who had Scott Parker as first managerial casualty then?
		
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A couple on here called it right 😳


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## Piece (Aug 30, 2022)

Management wise it's harsh, but if he's not towing the club line properly, then only himself to blame.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			From the statement I think it's less about results and more about his "outspoken attitude" regarding the way the club do business.
		
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Or that shocking Cardigan he continues to wear🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Swingalot (Aug 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah not as small as Palace though😉
		
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you can go off people you know


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## Norrin Radd (Aug 30, 2022)

Brighton to go top of the prem this evening, who would have thought.


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## Yorkhacker (Aug 30, 2022)

Norrin Radd said:



			Brighton to go top of the prem this evening, who would have thought.
		
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Well they were top for 4 minutes on Saturday apparently!


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## 4LEX (Aug 30, 2022)

Parker is a very average manager regardless of the tough run. He had the best squad in the Championship and just about managed to creep over the line with a whimper. The fans were calling for his head at various points throughout the season. Poor football, lack of in game management, bad subs etc.

Bournemouth should've sacked him in the summer and got in someone with a proven record in the PL. They've now wasted 3 months but at least they've acted fast and have the majority of the season left. Parker will get some sympathy and probably find himself at West Brom when Bruce gets the boot in a few months!


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## Norrin Radd (Aug 30, 2022)

Chris Houghton would be a good fit at the cherries


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## 4LEX (Aug 30, 2022)

Big Sam with Andy Carroll on a free


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## Orikoru (Aug 30, 2022)

Dyche is the favourite at the moment, followed by Wilder. Would certainly be interesting to see how Dyche does at a new club. Near impossible to keep them up though in my opinion, so he might not want to take it on. Weirdly Michael Carrick and Thierry Henry are both 12/1 though so God knows.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2022)

Norrin Radd said:



			Brighton to go top of the prem this evening, who would have thought.
		
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Such a well run club, superb manager etc. Potter has surely to be mentioned when the next lot of top jobs come up for grabs.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			So how many academy graduates in the City team at the moment then; does it beat the 5 we had in the starting line up on Saturday?  And Barcelona have just taken one of our academy graduates on a free.

Given the percentage of apprentices that make it in football, and the level at which we aim to be, there's no shame at all in the fact that players have to leave to maximise their potential.

If you view Tammy Abraham at Roma, Fikayo Tomori at AC Milan, Tina Livramento at Southampton, Nathan Are at Manchester City, Marc Guehi ay Crystal Palace, Tariq Lamptey at Brighton, Andreas Christensen at Barcelona, Ryan Bertrand at Leicester, Dominic Solanke at Bournemouth (via Liverpool), Bertrand Traore at Aston Villa, Ola Aina at Fulham and Mason Mount, Conor Gallagher, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Trevoh Chalobah and Reece James at Chelsea as evidence of failure of the academy then you're either a very hard taskmaster or you have no concept of how hard it is to make it at that level.
		
Click to expand...

The point isn't whether your academy develops players, it's whether the club is a good place to go for an aspiring young player or will they largely get splinters or farmed out? The beginning of your post shows the difficulties for so many. All of those had to leave Chelsea to get regular first team action. The way the club works it wants instant players, it rarely has the patience to develop them. The academy is a very successful money maker, no question. 

The five you mention currently at Chelsea, it looks as though Gallagher and Chalobah will move this window but the remaining 3 seem to be getting to be more regular game time. That's great to see, they are all quality players. 

If Gordon goes to Chelsea I doubt he will start 15 games for you this season. That can't be good for his development.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The point isn't whether your academy develops players, it's whether the club is a good place to go for an aspiring young player or will they largely get splinters or farmed out? The beginning of your post shows the difficulties for so many. All of those had to leave Chelsea to get regular first team action. The way the club works it wants instant players, it rarely has the patience to develop them. The academy is a very successful money maker, no question. 

The five you mention currently at Chelsea, it looks as though Gallagher and Chalobah will move this window but the remaining 3 seem to be getting to be more regular game time. That's great to see, they are all quality players. 

If Gordon goes to Chelsea I doubt he will start 15 games for you this season. That can't be good for his development.
		
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Real question should be is Gordon worth the offer? I'd snap off their hands for 25 mil plus Gallagher alone .. adding in broja? Yes please .. take it and run


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Real question should be is Gordon worth the offer? I'd snap off their hands for 25 mil plus Gallagher alone .. adding in broja? Yes please .. take it and run
		
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Without question. He is currently raw and developing. He could become a £60m player but he could equally be anything below. The deal, if real, is massively loaded in our favour.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Without question. He is currently raw and developing. He could become a £60m player but he could equally be anything below. The deal, if real, is massively loaded in our favour.
		
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I'd be saying thanks we will take you up on that deal no takebacks ...

Gallagher is class and proved it last season for palace 

Broja is raw and developing but considering your striking options he would be ideal


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd be saying thanks we will take you up on that deal no takebacks ...

Gallagher is class and proved it last season for palace

Broja is raw and developing but considering your striking options he would be ideal
		
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Totally agree 👍. 

Let's hope this all develops tomorrow 😄


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## fundy (Aug 30, 2022)

another 5m on Gordons price


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			another 5m on Gordons price 

Click to expand...

If the score stays the same at St Mary's then they may be willing to go up even higher 😆


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 30, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			I'm not disagreeing. However, having read a few other sources it seems that his "outspokenness" is not isolated to just that 9-0 defeat and he has, supposedly, made other comments about the clubs seeming unwillingness to part with the cash whilst others (Both Fulham and Forrest were compared) are making hay, so to speak.
		
Click to expand...

Forest’s owner has re-invested every single penny of their promotion payment back into the club for this transfer window, in order for them to build a team that can compete.

Bournemouth is, and will always be, a tinpot club, as evidenced. 

I don’t like Scott Parker but he’s been dealt a harsh hand here


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## Tashyboy (Aug 30, 2022)

Well Brightons not top of the league and I wonder if we get 10 pages of where it’s gone wrong at Chelsea like we do other teams 🤔
That said, and Ave said before just love these unexpected results.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 30, 2022)

A guy i Know called Martin Hibbert, he is a Forest fan.He is cycling to every premier league ground in the country this season. He is doing it for charity. Tomorrow he is on his way to City.
Good luck Martin.


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## Golfmmad (Aug 30, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Well Brightons not top of the league and I wonder if we get 10 pages of where it’s gone wrong at Chelsea like we do other teams 🤔
That said, and Ave said before just love these unexpected results.
		
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Well done Fulham, they were the better team tonight, Brighton were just not at the races, very disappointing.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 30, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Well done Fulham, they were the better team tonight, Brighton were just not at the races, very disappointing.
		
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When I looks at the south coast and see how well Saints Brighton and Bournemouth are
Doing so well. The mind boggles. The people running these clubs do a fantastic job. Be interesting to see how Bournemouth do in choosing there next gaffer. Hope Dyche don’t get a sniff he is 1980’s style.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 30, 2022)

Some promising stuff from the lads in pink tonight. Patterson, Onana, Coady all providing a bit of hope. Leeds dominated in the second half but some much better defensive play. A decent match and draw. Actually happy with that. 😳


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Some promising stuff from the lads in pink tonight. Patterson, Onana, Coady all providing a bit of hope. Leeds dominated in the second half but some much better defensive play. A decent match and draw. Actually happy with that. 😳
		
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The fitness of both teams tonight was remarkable. That game was non stop. 

Patterson and Onana were the two stand outs for me tonight, for us. Really excellent. 

I'm not sure we can play that way every away game though. Hopefully that was a holding display, whilst we wait for our new wonder striker and injured players to come back 😉. Did they say how much Gray was offside by for his disallowed goal? Must have been mm's.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did they say how much Gray was offside by for his disallowed goal? Must have been mm's.
		
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Don’t think they did but the VAR pic was showing a red line on the shoulder which means it was bigger than the 5cm tolerance.

He looked well off at first to me but the grass lines made it look a lot closer in the replay. I had no issue with that one.

Shame Patterson missed a great chance, the way he played tonight would have been a lovely bonus. Also great to see him pushing forward on the overlap even if he’s not getting the ball through. 🤦‍♀️

Also thought Iwobi did well, put in a lot of effort even though there were some silly mistakes. I think he’s improving a lot under Frank, nice to see.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 30, 2022)

Tuchel’s new local…


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## Norrin Radd (Aug 31, 2022)

Norrin Radd said:



			Brighton to go top of the prem this evening, who would have thought.
		
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Well that didn't work out right 😞


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You buy in some of the best in the world, scouring the world, at both a young age and then late teens, you accumulate young talent (as do Real, Barcelona, etc), so *it's no wonder so many ultimately make it.  They just rarely do it with you*. To maximise their potential they have to leave. *That's not something to be proud about.*

Click to expand...




Blue in Munich said:



			So how many academy graduates in the City team at the moment then; does it beat the 5 we had in the starting line up on Saturday?  And Barcelona have just taken one of our academy graduates on a free.

Given the percentage of apprentices that make it in football, and the level at which we aim to be, there's no shame at all in the fact that players have to leave to maximise their potential.

If you view Tammy Abraham at Roma, Fikayo Tomori at AC Milan, Tino Livramento at Southampton, Nathan Ake at Manchester City, Marc Guehi ay Crystal Palace, Tariq Lamptey at Brighton, Andreas Christensen at Barcelona, Ryan Bertrand at Leicester, Dominic Solanke at Bournemouth (via Liverpool), Bertrand Traore at Aston Villa, Ola Aina at Fulham and Mason Mount, Conor Gallagher, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Trevoh Chalobah and Reece James at Chelsea as evidence of failure of the academy then you're either a very hard taskmaster or you have no concept of how hard it is to make it at that level.
		
Click to expand...




Lord Tyrion said:



			The point isn't whether your academy develops players, it's whether the club is a good place to go for an aspiring young player or will they largely get splinters or farmed out? The beginning of your post shows the difficulties for so many. *All of those had to leave Chelsea to get regular first team action.* The way the club works it wants instant players, it rarely has the patience to develop them. The academy is a very successful money maker, no question.

The five you mention currently at Chelsea, it looks as though Gallagher and Chalobah will move this window but the remaining 3 seem to be getting to be more regular game time. That's great to see, they are all quality players.

If Gordon goes to Chelsea I doubt he will start 15 games for you this season. That can't be good for his development.
		
Click to expand...

Tariq Lamptey was sold because he declined the new contract he was offered; the main reason that he didn't sign is because another academy graduate Reece James was ahead of him for that position.  So it's not something to be proud of that he chose to leave because the academy had produced two international class players at the same time in the same position?

Tammy Abraham made 56 Premier League, 6 FA Cup, 3 League Cup & 13 European appearances in the 2 years before he left for Roma, primarily due to the change of manager, but it's clearly untrue that he had to leave to get regular first team action.

Andreas Christensen played 161 first team games over his main 5 years at Chelsea, which considering the amount of time he was sick or injured clearly proves he did not need to leave Chelsea to get first team football.  Because of being sanctioned, Chelsea were unable to renegotiate a new contract and he chose to take up an offer from Barcelona.  But it's clearly incorrect that he had to leave Chelsea to get first team football.

Marc Guehi, having established himself as a regular at Swansea , did not want to extend his contract and was therefore sold.  Speaking on his time at Chelsea, Guehi continued: _"Being at Chelsea really helped me in my development, getting better and helping myself excel.  "I said goodbye to everyone, to the coaches that coached me since I was young and the people that helped me get to this stage. I’m extremely grateful for their help."  _So the club would appear to be a good place to go as an aspiring young player, according to one of the graduates.

Ryan Bertrand made 57 first team appearances, including a medal-winning European Cup debut in the final in Munich.  The primary reason that Ryan Bertrand got so little first team football was that as a left back he was competing for the position with Ashley Cole; if you've got someone that good ahead of you you can't really expect regular first team football.  On the 'unbelievable' Cole, who he competed with for a first-team spot, he has nothing but glowing praise. 'Fans will be fans, you know, on his back and even on the outside the toughest of times, but his attitude to training, the way he would come out and train and play, was amazing.'  So being at Chelsea was certainly good for that young player.

Fikayo Tomori was establishing himself as a first team regular but then inexplicably fell down the pecking order, but 22 appearances in one season doesn't suggest that he needed to leave to get first team football.

Tino Livramento declined to sign a new contract aged 18 & signed for Southampton.  I'm not sure if we didn't give him a chance or if he didn't give Chelsea a chance. 

Not exactly correct then that all of those had to leave Chelsea to get regular first team action, or that it's a bad place for aspiring footballers to go?    Just because you dislike the club or its methods doesn't necessarily make them wrong.


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## SteveW86 (Aug 31, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Tariq Lamptey was sold because he declined the new contract he was offered; the main reason that he didn't sign is because another academy graduate Reece James was ahead of him for that position.  So it's not something to be proud of that he chose to leave because the academy had produced two international class players at the same time in the same position?

Tammy Abraham made 56 Premier League, 6 FA Cup, 3 League Cup & 13 European appearances in the 2 years before he left for Roma, primarily due to the change of manager, but it's clearly untrue that he had to leave to get regular first team action.

Andreas Christensen played 161 first team games over his main 5 years at Chelsea, which considering the amount of time he was sick or injured clearly proves he did not need to leave Chelsea to get first team football.  Because of being sanctioned, Chelsea were unable to renegotiate a new contract and he chose to take up an offer from Barcelona.  But it's clearly incorrect that he had to leave Chelsea to get first team football.

Marc Guehi, having established himself as a regular at Swansea , did not want to extend his contract and was therefore sold.  Speaking on his time at Chelsea, Guehi continued: _"Being at Chelsea really helped me in my development, getting better and helping myself excel.  "I said goodbye to everyone, to the coaches that coached me since I was young and the people that helped me get to this stage. I’m extremely grateful for their help."  _So the club would appear to be a good place to go as an aspiring young player, according to one of the graduates.

Ryan Bertrand made 57 first team appearances, including a medal-winning European Cup debut in the final in Munich.  The primary reason that Ryan Bertrand got so little first team football was that as a left back he was competing for the position with Ashley Cole; if you've got someone that good ahead of you you can't really expect regular first team football.  On the 'unbelievable' Cole, who he competed with for a first-team spot, he has nothing but glowing praise. 'Fans will be fans, you know, on his back and even on the outside the toughest of times, but his attitude to training, the way he would come out and train and play, was amazing.'  So being at Chelsea was certainly good for that young player.

Fikayo Tomori was establishing himself as a first team regular but then inexplicably fell down the pecking order, but 22 appearances in one season doesn't suggest that he needed to leave to get first team football.

Tino Livramento declined to sign a new contract aged 18 & signed for Southampton.  I'm not sure if we didn't give him a chance or if he didn't give Chelsea a chance.

Not exactly correct then that all of those had to leave Chelsea to get regular first team action, or that it's a bad place for aspiring footballers to go?    Just because you dislike the club or its methods doesn't necessarily make them wrong.
		
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Come on Rich, that is too sensible a post to be given any sort of credit in this thread. Can you please embellish with some unwarranted hyperbole.


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## Fade and Die (Aug 31, 2022)

Bloody lineup! Moyes has reverted to kind , bloody bugeyed waste of space .
And there was me thinking he might of had an epiphany.


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## pauljames87 (Aug 31, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Bloody lineup! Moyes has reverted to kind , bloody bugeyed waste of space .
And there was me thinking he might of had an epiphany.
		
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Has he? Scamacca has been sick all week so can't play and the new guy hasn't trained yet so was never going to play


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## Fade and Die (Aug 31, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Has he? Scamacca has been sick all week so can't play and the new guy hasn't trained yet so was never going to play
		
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And Cornet and Emerson?


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## pauljames87 (Aug 31, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			And Cornet and Emerson?
		
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Cresswell ironically has been one of our better players this season..hasn't let us down its coufal who's looked the weaker.

Cornet is a brilliant option off the bench but benrahma has earned his right he's a real spark.

It's a squad game


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2022)

David Brooks is back playing today - for Bournemouth under 21’s 👏👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍


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## pauljames87 (Aug 31, 2022)

I mean correct decision made , head first then hand etc blah . But my life it takes an age to get there

Edit 4.5 mins apparently!


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## pokerjoke (Aug 31, 2022)

This season is over
Reason 
Haaland


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 31, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			This season is over
Reason
Haaland
		
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Not a bad start is it?
Especially for a £51m signing


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			This season is over
Reason
Haaland
		
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Lol, theyre not even top of the league


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## Beezerk (Aug 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			Lol, theyre not even top of the league 

Click to expand...

You forgot to put “yet” at the end of your sentence 😬


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## pokerjoke (Aug 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			Lol, theyre not even top of the league 

Click to expand...

Laugh all you want I’m right though 😀
You will crumble 😉


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Laugh all you want I’m right though 😀
You will crumble 😉
		
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lol you think i was actually being serious 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## pendodave (Aug 31, 2022)

What a horrible team the Spuds are!!


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2022)

pendodave said:



			What a horrible team the Spuds are!!
		
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hard to disagree with that statement


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## pokerjoke (Aug 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol you think i was actually being serious 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

No,of course not.
It’s over if he stays injury free.
Klopp out,listen to the phone ins now 😀
Kloppatthewheel


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			No,of course not.
It’s over if he stays injury free.
Klopp out,listen to the phone ins now 😀
Kloppatthewheel
		
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wheres that delete button .....


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 31, 2022)

Get in .
Serves them right for wasting so much time.


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## Dando (Aug 31, 2022)

I can hear @Stuart_C shouting down here in London


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2022)

Dando said:



			I can hear @Stuart_C shouting down here in London
		
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just a normal day


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## Dando (Aug 31, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Get in .
Serves them right for wasting so much time.
		
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Keeper was taking 20 seconds to kick the ball after catching it


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## Dando (Aug 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			just a normal day 

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Silly me


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 31, 2022)

Dando said:



			Keeper was taking 20 seconds to kick the ball after catching it
		
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Well we were told the refs were going to deal with it.
They have by adding time on ,but they should book a few as well.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 31, 2022)

The tempo in the City game was as good as I have seen in a long time.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			wheres that delete button ..... 

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Bad timing lol
Klopptime


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## hairball_89 (Aug 31, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Bad timing lol
Klopptime
		
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If we win you can call it whatever you like!

Thoroughly average performance from the refs again but by God we deserved that for nothing other than their ridiculous ability to lie down at every opportunity. 

Carvalho and Elliott are both going to be top top players. What a finish from Fabio and Harvey MOTM for me. 

Isak is going to be a heck of an addition to the PL. Wonderful forward.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 31, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			This season is over
Reason
Haaland
		
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That city side was already the best in the world. Adding Haaland has basically just given them cheat codes. Ridiculous. Best side I’ve seen in over 25 years probably. 

I didn’t expect much from tonight, but City are relentless. Made it look like we weren’t even trying, which I don’t think is the case at all. 

Glad it’s out the way early in the season 😂


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## 4LEX (Aug 31, 2022)

Some brilliant football tonight.

Arsenal in the first half were as good as I've seen them for years. Pace, intensity, pressing and superb football. The only downside was the lack of end product infront of goal, should've easily been 4-0 up. I still question their ability to finish Top 4 based on that and one bad injury to Jesus.

City v Forest was like a training match, men against boys. Haaland was fouled badly for his first but was so powerful he simply shrugged it off. What a beast.

Liverpool lacked quality and looked really poor going forward but they kept on and totally deserved the winner for all the disgraceful time wasting from Newcastle. Under no circumstances should the game be stopped for cramp, it's not an injury just a lack of fitness. Newcastle had numerous players down for it from 65 mins onwards. Credit to the ref for adding the time on at the end of injury time for more time wasting! Huge win for Liverpool with key attackers missing.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 31, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			That city side was already the best in the world. Adding Haaland has basically just given them cheat codes. Ridiculous. Best side I’ve seen in over 25 years probably.

I didn’t expect much from tonight, but City are relentless. Made it look like we weren’t even trying, which I don’t think is the case at all.

Glad it’s out the way early in the season 😂
		
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I thought that was as good as I have seen City play in a good couple of seasons, they were relentless. I am not to sure which Haaland goal it was, but once more a defender switched off like they did with Kane at the  weekend. Unfortunately at this level those mistakes cost. Listening to the Forest manager he was straight talking I. The sense this one game will not define Forest. They have six game coming up and more than capable of winning a fair few of them.


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## Aztecs27 (Aug 31, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I thought that was as good as I have seen City play in a good couple of seasons, they were relentless. I am not to sure which Haaland goal it was, but once more a defender switched off like they did with Kane at the  weekend. Unfortunately at this level those mistakes cost. Listening to the Forest manager he was straight talking I. The sense this one game will not define Forest. They have six game coming up and more than capable of winning a fair few of them.
		
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Our defence isn’t up to par, and expect a few last minute signings to bolster it. It’s been the weak point in the first five weeks. Probably partly getting used to the pace of the league and partly just not good enough. Once Niakhaté is back from injury it should help, but as you say, mistakes like that are punished in this league; especially against a team as clinical as City. 
Not overly concerned after this evening but if Bournemouth somehow do the same on Saturday, then it’ll be time to start worrying!


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## pokerjoke (Aug 31, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Some brilliant football tonight.

Arsenal in the first half were as good as I've seen them for years. Pace, intensity, pressing and superb football. The only downside was the lack of end product infront of goal, should've easily been 4-0 up. I still question their ability to finish Top 4 based on that and one bad injury to Jesus.

City v Forest was like a training match, men against boys. Haaland was fouled badly for his first but was so powerful he simply shrugged it off. What a beast.

Liverpool lacked quality and looked really poor going forward but they kept on and totally deserved the winner for all the disgraceful time wasting from Newcastle. Under no circumstances should the game be stopped for cramp, it's not an injury just a lack of fitness. Newcastle had numerous players down for it from 65 mins onwards. Credit to the ref for adding the time on at the end of injury time for more time wasting! Huge win for Liverpool with key attackers missing.
		
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Cramp is caused from many things and lack of fitness could be one.
Even the fittest get cramps.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Cramp is caused from many things and lack of fitness could be one.
Even the fittest get cramps.
		
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I've watched plenty of football and ive never seen players going down with cramp after 10 minutes and every 10mins thereafter. Newcastle had 5 subs to choose from to change it🤷🏼

On tonights game, i'm still fuming even after that late winner. I totally understand Newcastles tactics from the off, no issue whatsoever. 

Delaying goal kicks, going down  holding heads and stopping play every couple of minutes, breaking up play every 2 mins  etc etc.

Referee not getting a grip of it and not adding enough time on at the end of  both halves is what has annoyed me.   

That said, celebrating a winner in added time is something else🤣🤣🤣

Karma👍


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## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2022)

Dando said:



			I can hear @Stuart_C shouting down here in London
		
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I was only whispering aswell🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well we were told the refs were going to deal with it.
They have by adding time on ,but they should book a few as well.
		
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The whole Newcastle team could've been booked, they were all  at it from 2mins 24secs when Pope started.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I've watched plenty of football and ive never seen players going down with cramp after 10 minutes and every 10mins thereafter. Newcastle had 5 subs to choose from to change it🤷🏼

On tonights game, i'm still fuming even after that late winner. I totally understand Newcastles tactics from the off, no issue whatsoever. 

Delaying goal kicks, going down  holding heads and stopping play every couple of minutes, breaking up play every 2 mins  etc etc.

Referee not getting a grip of it and not adding enough time on at the end of  both halves is what has annoyed me.   

That said, celebrating a winner in added time is something else🤣🤣🤣

Karma👍
		
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Spurs were trying it from the moment they scored last night .. then soon as we equalised the game sped back up and we looked the most likely to win it because they left so many gaps.

It does make the game so boring when players just don't get on with it


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I've watched plenty of football and ive never seen players going down with cramp after 10 minutes and every 10mins thereafter. Newcastle had 5 subs to choose from to change it🤷🏼

On tonights game, i'm still fuming even after that late winner. I totally understand Newcastles tactics from the off, no issue whatsoever.

Delaying goal kicks, going down  holding heads and stopping play every couple of minutes, breaking up play every 2 mins  etc etc.

Referee not getting a grip of it and not adding enough time on at the end of  both halves is what has annoyed me.  

That said, celebrating a winner in added time is something else🤣🤣🤣

Karma👍
		
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Seems Howe demanding an explanation on why there was an extra 3 mins on the added time 

Maybe he needs to look at his players and how they acted


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## BiMGuy (Sep 1, 2022)

Can we have an agreement that all team wast time, dive, cheat, etc. some worse than others (Wolves, Palace, Everton).Then we don’t have to have pages of complaints about it every week.


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## Dando (Sep 1, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Can we have an agreement that all team wast time, dive, cheat, etc. some worse than others (Wolves, Palace, Everton).Then we don’t have to have pages of complaints about it every week.
		
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if there are no arguments, then most of the posters wouldn't have a life


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## Swango1980 (Sep 1, 2022)

I reckon it would be a good idea that, if a ref ever thinks a player is wasting time, not only do they add that time back on, but they add on a full additional minute.

Sure, there will be occasions it will be a subjective call. But, it will give incentive to players to keep playing so the final whistle comes earlier. Otherwise, they might face 20 minutes of injury time. It is a lot, but it would be great to have that as a reason for players to just get on with it if they possibly can.

Furthermore, if a ref is in a position that they need to book a player for time wasting, they should not only give the yellow, but add an extra 2 minutes. That will make sure goalkeepers get on with it.


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## Orikoru (Sep 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I reckon it would be a good idea that, if a ref ever thinks a player is wasting time, not only do they add that time back on, but they add on a full additional minute.

Sure, there will be occasions it will be a subjective call. But, it will give incentive to players to keep playing so the final whistle comes earlier. Otherwise, they might face 20 minutes of injury time. It is a lot, but it would be great to have that as a reason for players to just get on with it if they possibly can.

Furthermore, if a ref is in a position that they need to book a player for time wasting, they should not only give the yellow, but add an extra 2 minutes. That will make sure goalkeepers get on with it.
		
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That will go well on evening kick-offs when everyone in the stadium misses their train.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 1, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Can we have an agreement that all team wast time, dive, cheat, etc. some worse than others (Wolves, Palace, Everton).Then we don’t have to have pages of complaints about it every week.
		
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They do but some are a lot better at it than others.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I reckon it would be a good idea that, if a ref ever thinks a player is wasting time, not only do they add that time back on, but they add on a full additional minute.

Sure, there will be occasions it will be a subjective call. But, it will give incentive to players to keep playing so the final whistle comes earlier. Otherwise, they might face 20 minutes of injury time. It is a lot, but it would be great to have that as a reason for players to just get on with it if they possibly can.

Furthermore, if a ref is in a position that they need to book a player for time wasting, they should not only give the yellow, but add an extra 2 minutes. That will make sure goalkeepers get on with it.
		
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That assumes the ref knows what is and what isn’t.
They had to be instructed to add time on as last season they didn’t know 
There is a need for a timekeeper imo .
The refs have enough to do with all the cheating and diving ,feigning a head injury works if all else fails.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems Howe demanding an explanation on why there was an extra 3 mins on the added time 

Maybe he needs to look at his players and how they acted
		
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Really?? Him and his assistant were complicit in the tactics. Rolling the ball onto the pitch from the touchline as we're about to take a freekick etc.

It was funny when Joelinton was down for the 79th time that we just carried on playing around him and the ref did nothing 😁


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## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Can we have an agreement that all team wast time, dive, cheat, etc. some worse than others (Wolves, Palace, Everton).Then we don’t have to have pages of complaints about it every week.
		
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Theres wasting time then there's those levels last night and what i seen in the Leeds v Everton Palace v Brentford game the night before.


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## fundy (Sep 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Theres wasting time then there's those levels last night and what i seen in the Leeds v Everton Palace v Brentford game the night before.
		
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Its definitely getting worse and refs are definitely not getting control of it despite claiming to


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## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That assumes the ref knows what is and what isn’t.
They had to be instructed to add time on as last season they didn’t know
There is a need for a timekeeper imo .
The refs have enough to do with all the cheating and diving ,*feigning a head injury works if all else fails*.
		
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This needs to stop, teams are using it as a tactic to delay the game. Its wrong.

Along with multi ball, its actually slowing the games down. Ball goes into the away crowd, they keep hold of it, play restarts then they throw the ball back and now theres 2 balls on the pitch. Play gets stopped.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Theres wasting time then there's those levels last night and what i seen in the Leeds v Everton Palace v Brentford game the night before.
		
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Everton we’re embarrassing. Time wasting from 2 minutes in. It just shows how inept and out of his depth Lampard is as a manager.

The irritating thing about it was the ref. He kept pointing to his watch but did nothing about it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Everton we’re embarrassing. Time wasting from 2 minutes in. It just shows how inept and out of his depth Lampard is as a manager.

The irritating thing about it was the ref. He kept pointing to his watch but did nothing about it.
		
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I don't like it but the aim was to quiten the crowd, disrupt the rhythm of Leeds. The answer was for the ref to book Pickford within the first 5-10 minutes. Instead we just kept pointing at his watch, adding time. That doesn't resolve the problem, stop the time wasting. It's within the powers of the refs, over to them.


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## Piece (Sep 1, 2022)

LOL. I went to bed thinking it was Liv 1-1 Newcastle (don't have BT Sport). Woke up and starting watching SkySports News and the ticker said 2-1...I thought that was a typo and then realised!!

I would call Newcastle's approach as "reducing the tempo", rather than time-wasting...


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## Swango1980 (Sep 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			That will go well on evening kick-offs when everyone in the stadium misses their train. 

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True, although loads of fans leave early anyway 

Ultimately, the primary reason a team does it is to minimise the amount of time the ball is in play for the opposition to score. Players should still be booked for obvious time wasting, as it also can disrupt momentum of the game. However, clearly players will continue to go unpunished for many circumstances. You can only book them if they are obviously pushing their luck, not just going over 1 second compared to how they could have got playing going at their quickest. You also can't book players for "cramp" or other injuries they are pretending to have. It is likely they are faking it, but you can never be certain.

A timekeeper is not a bad idea, but even if they stop the play for these situations, and start it again as soon as play starts again, there is bound to be a little time wasted before the timekeeper was convinced the clock should be stopped, whilst the momentum of play has still been halted. So, I'd still be happy if such circumstances actually resulted in additional bonus time being added to the game, thus ensuring that time wasters no longer waste time, but actually give more time.

It would be interesting if a league table of time penalties was produced, to see what teams were most guilty of this. If teams reached certain thresholds, then the club was punished in some way.

PS I threw up an value of injury time of 20 minutes as extreme. I'd still be willing to accept it if a team was that bad at wasting time. However, I'd like to think that if new guidelines were introduced, it is unlikely teams will continue to waste time too easily. If they did, maybe 5 minutes of injury time might start pushing towards 10 minutes. Also, I'm sure many Liverpool fans at the game last night were getting annoyed with the time wasting. How many of them would have been gutted if 20 minutes of injury time was announced? I reckon the vast majority would have been loving it.


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## hairball_89 (Sep 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't like it but the aim was to quiten the crowd, disrupt the rhythm of Leeds. The *answer was for the ref to book Pickford within the first 5-10 minutes*. Instead we just kept pointing at his watch, adding time. That doesn't resolve the problem, stop the time wasting. It's within the powers of the refs, over to them.
		
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How many times do we see this so obviously? I've lost count of the number of times a ref has had a go at a keeper in the first half, then waited until 84 minutes to book him. I'm all for "here's your warning. the next one is a yellow" but that has to happen, whether it's 5 mins in or 5 mins from FT. As mentioned a lot, Newcastle's tactics very nearly worked yesterday. And they got what they deserved when Marriner actually added on the time. But how many times do teams get away with it? Far too many for me. 

I don't really think anybody *enjoys *watching it either, whether it's the team you're playing or your own team. It's not fun. it's not enjoyable to watch. it just makes watching football annoying.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			How many times do we see this so obviously? I've lost count of the number of times a ref has had a go at a keeper in the first half, then waited until 84 minutes to book him. I'm all for "here's your warning. the next one is a yellow" but that has to happen, whether it's 5 mins in or 5 mins from FT. As mentioned a lot, Newcastle's tactics very nearly worked yesterday. And they got what they deserved when Marriner actually added on the time. But how many times do teams get away with it? Far too many for me.

I don't really think anybody *enjoys *watching it either, whether it's the team you're playing or your own team. It's not fun. it's not enjoyable to watch. it just makes watching football annoying.
		
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Totally agree. I believe someone timed Pickford as taking 1 minute for a goal kick in the first half. That's a nonsense. I don't want my team doing that, certainly not in the first half of a game.


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## Neilds (Sep 1, 2022)

Easy way to stop the majority of time wasting is to play on when a player goes down and it is not a head injury.  The worst one for me is when players are on their feet and then when the ball is dead, they just sit down in the middle of the pitch.  It was ok a second ago when you were walking, if you need 'treatment' that badly, then walk to the side of the pitch


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## RichA (Sep 1, 2022)

My team have been time wasting irritatingly for a couple of years. Wasn't necessary last night against Man City though. 
It's time for a rule change - ref stops the clock in certain circumstances so everyone knows precisely how long is left. Seems like an idiotically simple solution to something that is spoiling professional football. If you want to run down the clock, do it by exercising skill while the ball is in play - just not quite how Richarlison attempted to do.


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## pendodave (Sep 1, 2022)

After we've changed to a stopping clock, we'll be astonished that it took so long.
A little like changing the backpass rule. Can you imagine how much actual football would be played if 'keepers could still pick it up ??


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## Jimaroid (Sep 1, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Easy way to stop the majority of time wasting is to play on when a player goes down and it is not a head injury.  The worst one for me is when players are on their feet and then when the ball is dead, they just sit down in the middle of the pitch.  It was ok a second ago when you were walking, if you need 'treatment' that badly, then walk to the side of the pitch
		
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I don't think it'd work. There was a perfect  example in the Leeds-Everton game, Rodrigo went down on his knees with a dislocated shoulder, play continued when in retrospect it shouldn't have but it looked innocuous at first even to the players and ref on the pitch.

If players stopped feigning injury, real incidents like that would deservedly stop play.

Personally I don't think it can be stopped especially when it seems all professional footballers hold the view that "they're entitled to go down". It's just become part of the game now - not that I like it.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 1, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Easy way to stop the majority of time wasting is to play on when a player goes down and it is not a head injury.  The worst one for me is when players are on their feet and then when the ball is dead, they just sit down in the middle of the pitch.  It was ok a second ago when you were walking, if you need 'treatment' that badly, then walk to the side of the pitch
		
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It would, and we always hear "the ref will only stop play for a head injury". However, bizarrely sometimes that is not the case, and the ref will stop play anyway (I mean, I'd understand if a player had a bone sticking out of their leg, but often the ref will stop it for something that looks trivial).

Also, if a goalkeeper goes down injured, or a defender goes down close to their own goal line, do fans genuinely want to see play continue? If a player is genuinely injured, and the opposition kick the ball into an unguarded net, or a defender is playing everyone onside, it won't sit right. Sure, if the player is faking it, served them right. But, we can never be 100% sure they are, and there will be a lot of times we'd actually see that they could have been hurt after some contact in the non-head region. So, there are situations in which you can see why a ref will stop play for other types of injuries, depending on what position they play and where they are on the pitch.

Of course, even if play is not stopped, once the ball finally goes out of play, then time is wasted at that point as a player is treated. The ref will not restart the game with a player "injured" on the floor. So, to end that you'd have to say a ref must start play, and the player can just be treated on the pitch. Again, not really feasible if it is a goalkeeper, or a defender lying near his own goal line.


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## nickjdavis (Sep 1, 2022)

So....transfer deadline day is upon us.

Does your team need anyone else in through the doors? Do you want to see a player offloaded?

As a Newcastle telly clapper (best clarify my validity to comment on such matters) we need someone to fashion the bullets for Isak to fire....he looks like a proper striker who knows how to finish. I'd therefore like to see a creative midfielder who can also contribute goals....would have loved to see Maddison come in but that's not going to happen. Tielemans is being touted but not sure about him. Basically in an ideal world someone out there will have cloned Peter Beardsley.


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## fundy (Sep 1, 2022)

We badly need a central/defensive midfielder, we basically have Partey (injured or is he?), Elneny(injured/not good enough) and Sambi (not ready). Plan was to use Zinchenko in there at times too but hes also carrying a knock and having to cover for the eternally injured Tierney. Expect we try and add cover for the wide attacking roles too but far less important

More likely to be a few outs, Bellerin, Maitlin Niles etc


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## Piece (Sep 1, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			So....transfer deadline day is upon us.

*Does your team need anyone else in through the doors? Do you want to see a player offloaded?*

As a Newcastle telly clapper (best clarify my validity to comment on such matters) we need someone to fashion the bullets for Isak to fire....he looks like a proper striker who knows how to finish. I'd therefore like to see a creative midfielder who can also contribute goals....would have loved to see Maddison come in but that's not going to happen. Tielemans is being touted but not sure about him. Basically in an ideal world someone out there will have cloned Peter Beardsley.
		
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We need plenty, especially in defence. In fact, a new defence. And more midfielders in the Choudhury vain. Must keep Pedro, but acknowledge he's too good for us now.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 1, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			So....transfer deadline day is upon us.

Does your team need anyone else in through the doors? Do you want to see a player offloaded?
		
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My lot need a goalkeeper. We also need 4 defenders, 4 midfielders and 2 strikers. And it would be a massive bonus if we could get a new owner and manager as well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2022)

Everton - A striker please. Any striker, ideally one that will actually score goals though, not just miss them.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 1, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			So....transfer deadline day is upon us.

Does your team need anyone else in through the doors? Do you want to see a player offloaded?

As a Newcastle telly clapper (best clarify my validity to comment on such matters) we need someone to fashion the bullets for Isak to fire....he looks like a proper striker who knows how to finish. I'd therefore like to see a creative midfielder who can also contribute goals....would have loved to see Maddison come in but that's not going to happen. Tielemans is being touted but not sure about him. Basically in an ideal world someone out there will have cloned Peter Beardsley.
		
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Man Utd could do with Haaland, De Bruyne, Foden, Silva, Rodri, Dias, Cancelo, Walker and Ederson. However, I suspect those deals will not be done 

I'm happy enough with the signings we have made, albeit some still need to prove themselves. Lots talk about Martinez's height (ironic, as he has just played in a league based in a nation that is known to have the tallest population on the planet), but I like the passion and guts he shows. I like the early signs shown by Malacia, Eriksen is a class act, Casemiro a winner and position we definitely needed to fill and am intrigued to see what this Antony is like.

Will also be good to finally stop talking about Ronaldo's situation, either way. And I have no idea if talks with De Jong officially stopped long ago, or it has just gone quiet due to the other signings we made in last couple of weeks.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That assumes the ref knows what is and what isn’t.
They had to be instructed to add time on as last season they didn’t know
*There is a need for a timekeeper imo *.
The refs have enough to do with all the cheating and diving ,feigning a head injury works if all else fails.
		
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I've been asking for that for years.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 1, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I don't think it'd work. There was a perfect  example in the Leeds-Everton game, Rodrigo went down on his knees with a dislocated shoulder, play continued when in retrospect it shouldn't have but it looked innocuous at first even to the players and ref on the pitch.

If players stopped feigning injury, real incidents like that would deservedly stop play.

Personally I don't think it can be stopped especially when it seems all professional footballers hold the view that "they're entitled to go down". It's just become part of the game now - not that I like it.
		
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Why not try just let one of the physios to come on the pitch during play.
The player gets attention straight away if he is hurt. Especially if it’s a head injury.
If he’s not hurt they are playing with 10 men until play stops as he would still have to go off the pitch.
If the phisio interferes with play or it’s a serious injury then stop play using the fourth official as these are all miked up and in touch with each other.
Something has to be done


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Why not try just let one of the physios to come on the pitch during play.
The player gets attention straight away if he is hurt. Especially if it’s a head injury.
If he’s not hurt they are playing with 10 men until play stops as he would still have to go off the pitch.
If the phisio interferes with play or it’s a serious injury then stop play using the fourth official as these are all miked up and in touch with each other.
*Something has to be done*

Click to expand...

This. ^^^

I'd say it's getting ridiculous but it reached that stage some time ago.  Refs either ignore or point at their watch & do nothing, save for one memorable occasion this season when a keeper waited whilst the referee was apparently lecturing his captain about the need to speed up play, then immediately booked the goalkeeper for not taking the kick whilst he was talking to the captain.

External timekeeper.  If the ball is out of play or in the keeper's hands the clock stops.  Clock restarts when the ball is put back into play.  30 minutes each way.  Job done.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Why not try just let one of the physios to come on the pitch during play.
The player gets attention straight away if he is hurt. Especially if it’s a head injury.
If he’s not hurt they are playing with 10 men until play stops as he would still have to go off the pitch.
If the phisio interferes with play or it’s a serious injury then stop play using the fourth official as these are all miked up and in touch with each other.
Something has to be done
		
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Sounds good. But, would you make exception to a goalkeeper? What about a player who is injured near his goal line, thus playing everyone onside. Or a player getting treatment in the box while a corner comes in? There are probably many situations that this would not actually work very well at all. It is probably not worth doing unless the referee still lets play continue after there is a break in play, while the player is still treated. Because, if a player goes down injured, it usually isn't long before there is a stop in play for something anyway. The current biggest waste of time is not the initial point the player goes down injured (as ref won't normally stop play unless it is a head injury), it is the time wasted after the ball goes out of play.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			This. ^^^

I'd say it's getting ridiculous but it reached that stage some time ago.  Refs either ignore or point at their watch & do nothing, save for one memorable occasion this season when a keeper waited whilst the referee was apparently lecturing his captain about the need to speed up play, then immediately booked the goalkeeper for not taking the kick whilst he was talking to the captain.

*External timekeeper.  If the ball is out of play or in the keeper's hands the clock stops.  Clock restarts when the ball is put back into play.  30 minutes each way.  Job done.*

Click to expand...

That is a fundamental change to the game of football, moving away from 45 minutes each way. Not saying it couldn't be done, it is just a big change. No idea how much time the ball is out of play generally, but wondering if some games might end up being as short as 35 minutes each way? After all, if literally no time wasting is rewarded, it might be surprising how quickly some games would last.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That is a fundamental change to the game of football, moving away from 45 minutes each way. Not saying it couldn't be done, it is just a big change. No idea how much time the ball is out of play generally, but wondering if some games might end up being as short as 35 minutes each way? After all, if literally no time wasting is rewarded, it might be surprising how quickly some games would last.
		
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Given that at the moment seeing the ball in play for 60 minutes is the exception rather than the rule, it's hardly the fundamental change you claim; if anything, unless the teams drop the time wasting, 30 minutes of actual play will take longer than the 45 minutes each way currently being played. 

https://talksport.com/football/3159...emier-league-side-201718-season-171127263506/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349


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## Swango1980 (Sep 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Given that at the moment seeing the ball in play for 60 minutes is the exception rather than the rule, it's hardly the fundamental change you claim; if anything, unless the teams drop the time wasting, 30 minutes of actual play will take longer than the 45 minutes each way currently being played. 

https://talksport.com/football/3159...emier-league-side-201718-season-171127263506/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349

Click to expand...

I'd still say it is a major fundamental change to the way we know football (I.e 45 minutes each way). As such, I suspect it is incredibly unlikely. Not impossible, just unlikely


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## fundy (Sep 1, 2022)

Keep it as 45 minutes each way but have a timer starting at zero for when the balls out of play/timewasting etc. Then at the end of 45 mins run the clock back to zero. Problem solved and will highlight just how long some sides games take and hopefully will encourage sides to not bother in future


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## Piece (Sep 1, 2022)

Outside of the Prem, I have noticed that at Championship level the refs are hotter on time-wasting now.


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## 3offTheTee (Sep 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Everton - A striker please. Any striker, ideally one that will actually score goals though, not just miss them.
		
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Well you are supposed to be 3m short at present with Fulham having a 2nd bid rejected. Celta Vigo interested and Leeds are supposed to be.

You should be favourites as it would not involve uprooting family and he is initially from Stoke. You have deep pockets Lord T. Splash the cash.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Sounds good. But, would you make exception to a goalkeeper? What about a player who is injured near his goal line, thus playing everyone onside. Or a player getting treatment in the box while a corner comes in? There are probably many situations that this would not actually work very well at all. It is probably not worth doing unless the referee still lets play continue after there is a break in play, while the player is still treated. Because, if a player goes down injured, it usually isn't long before there is a stop in play for something anyway. The current biggest waste of time is not the initial point the player goes down injured (as ref won't normally stop play unless it is a head injury), it is the time wasted after the ball goes out of play.
		
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Yes there will be teething problems with any change.( See VAR )
But when alls said and done the ref is still in charge.
So keeper down stop the game.
Somebody hurt on the goal line ref has final say on anything in the box.
But everywhere else just play on unless the phisio radios it’s serious and needs assistance.
Got to start somewhere.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 1, 2022)

The made up figures from thin air do my head in

It's meant to be 30 secs per goal / sub

So first half yest 4 mins added

There was 4.5 mins spent on VAR pen decision

Then injury to a spurs player ..


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## Slime (Sep 1, 2022)




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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Well you are supposed to be 3m short at present with Fulham having a 2nd bid rejected. Celta Vigo interested and Leeds are supposed to be.

You should be favourites as it would not involve uprooting family and he is initially from Stoke. You have deep pockets Lord T. Splash the cash.
		
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If we lose him for the sake of £3m, I know that's mad but this is football, then that would be very, very foolish. It's peanuts at that level.


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## Jimaroid (Sep 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Everton - A striker please. Any striker, ideally one that will actually score goals though, not just miss them.
		
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Yep. We’re not looking very likely to get anything at this hour are we. 🤦‍♀️


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## fundy (Sep 1, 2022)

Got to laugh how bad Arsenal are at transfers 

Not an hour after Barca cash in on Aubam, who Arsenal had to pay to take off their hands less than a year ago, we let them pull our pants down again for Bellerin on a free. Good to see weve learnt our lesson and inserted a sell on clause though 🤣🤣🤣

In other news, hopefully Maitlin Niles will get regular game time at Southampton


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## Swango1980 (Sep 1, 2022)

It would be nice if United had a front 3 who could win back and/or keep possession. Give Elanga, Sancho and Rashford space, they can be dangerous. Any other form of play, really really poor.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 1, 2022)

Just one back up defender and it's a 10/10 window for us.
Keeping Neves the best bit.


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## fundy (Sep 1, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Just one back up defender and it's a 10/10 window for us.
Keeping Neves the best bit.
		
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still waiting for your lot to score from last night 🤬


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## Slime (Sep 1, 2022)

Three valuable and hard earned points puts us into 5th spot.
I think we'll only get better as the new guys bed in.
First time United have won three on the bounce this year!


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## Bazzatron (Sep 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			still waiting for your lot to score from last night 🤬
		
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How do you think I feel?!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 2, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Well you are supposed to be 3m short at present with Fulham having a 2nd bid rejected. Celta Vigo interested and Leeds are supposed to be.

You should be favourites as it would not involve uprooting family and he is initially from Stoke. You have deep pockets Lord T. Splash the cash.
		
Click to expand...

Well, you have your man still. If no one was willing to dig down the sofa for that bit extra then that is on them. Hopefully he will score a tonne of goals for you and push you up the table, challenging for promotion. Good on Blackburn for not rolling over, knowing the players worth.


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

Unsurprisingly, I couldn't be happier with the way the window went. We've upgraded in almost every position, and although it's essentially an overhaul of the squad, it was desperately needed if we were to compete this season. 

I've got no worries about Cooper gelling the squad and now that the window is closed and he knows what he's working with, he can get the right combinations of players working together and hopefully see us push on and grab some points over they next nine (winnable) games now we have City away in the rear view mirror.


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

Piece said:



			Outside of the Prem, I have noticed that at Championship level the refs are hotter on time-wasting now.
		
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Just a shame they're utterly rubbish at just about every other aspect of officiating.


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## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Unsurprisingly, I couldn't be happier with the way the window went. We've upgraded in almost every position, and although it's essentially an overhaul of the squad, it was desperately needed if we were to compete this season.

I've got no worries about Cooper gelling the squad and now that the window is closed and he knows what he's working with, he can get the right combinations of players working together and hopefully see us push on and grab some points over they next nine (winnable) games now we have City away in the rear view mirror.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565593807260995587

Do you not think you went a bit overboard? It was like me playing Championship Manager - you'd have had about 5 strikers if that deal went through?? Surely quite a few won't make the squad of 25 now?


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565593807260995587

Do you not think you went a bit overboard? It was like me playing Championship Manager - you'd have had about 5 strikers if that deal went through?? Surely quite a few won't make the squad of 25 now?
		
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We lost 22 players and signed 21...Every player we signed (except 3, who went straight out on loan) will make the squad. 

We needed two starter quality players in every position, and before the window opened had;

Defence:
Worrall, McKenna, Cook, Mbe Soh

Midfield:
Yates, Cafu, Colback

Forwards:
Johnson, Surridge

Colback is no longer good enough for the Prem and arguably, Mbe Soh is still too young/raw for Premiership Football (he played in the U23's last season). 

so that leaves 7 players left to fill a squad of 25, leaving 18 spots to fill. of our 21 signings, 3 have gone out on loan straight away (basically failsafes that can slot straight into the squad next season *if* we go down). 

The club had zero choice but to make so many signings - and the signings they've made have all had clear logic behind them...and they've had to adapt their approach after unexpected injuries to Omar Richards (leg fracture that was missed on the medical - hence bringing in Toffolo from Huddersfield and more recently Lodi from Athletico) and Niakhate who has tweaked his hamstring, leaving us weak at the back with only Cook, Worrall and McKenna, none of which have any pace, so three slow defenders are going to punished (hence bringing in Badé and Boly yesterday).


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

And for the record, the Bat's deal that fell through last night was the only one that I was really puzzled with - but I can only assume there were plans to send Surridge out on loan if it had gone through (so in that regard, I'm happy Chelsea's admin weren't organised enough to get the paperwork sent in time).


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## Neilds (Sep 2, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			We lost 22 players and signed 21...*Every player we signed (except 3, who went straight out on loan)* will make the squad.
		
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I think they need to have an overhaul of the loan system as this sort of thing is wrong in my opinion.  If you sign a player you should keep him, at least until the next transfer window before any loan deals, or what is the point of signing him - apart from some dodgy FFP dealings?

Was it Chelsea a few years ago who had more players out on loan than they had in the 1st team squad?


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

Not sure if anyone subscribes to The Athletic, but this article is absolutely remarkable and explains every single facet of Forest's summer business (transfers and everything else)

https://theathletic.com/3558295/2022/09/02/nottingham-forest-transfer-window/

It's worth the subscription price alone (new users can get 6 months for £1/month or I have some 30 day guest passes if anyone wants to trial it - much better sports content overall than any other media outlet)


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I think they need to have an overhaul of the loan system as this sort of thing is wrong in my opinion.  If you sign a player you should keep him, at least until the next transfer window before any loan deals, or *what is the point of signing him - apart from some dodgy FFP dealings?*

Was it Chelsea a few years ago who had more players out on loan than they had in the 1st team squad?
		
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To ensure you secure the services of a player you want for the future whilst ensuring they get regular game time for their development.


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## fundy (Sep 2, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Not sure if anyone subscribes to The Athletic, but this article is absolutely remarkable and explains every single facet of Forest's summer business (transfers and everything else)

https://theathletic.com/3558295/2022/09/02/nottingham-forest-transfer-window/

It's worth the subscription price alone (new users can get 6 months for £1/month or I have some 30 day guest passes if anyone wants to trial it - much better sports content overall than any other media outlet)
		
Click to expand...

Loved the comment that Forest spent more in one transfer window than they had spent in their 150+ year history!!!!

Have been a fan but as a site its definitely gone a little downhill standard wise, huge increase in clickbait articles recently, I guess theyve got to try and balance the books. Definitely get more club focussed articles than elsewhere albeit they do come from the same viewpoint most of the time


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## Neilds (Sep 2, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			To ensure you secure the services of a player you want for the future whilst ensuring they get regular game time for their development.
		
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But how many actually come back and become a regular for the parent club?  I bet the majority don't


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Loved the comment that Forest spent more in one transfer window than they had spent in their 150+ year history!!!!

Have been a fan but as a site its definitely gone a little downhill standard wise, huge increase in clickbait articles recently, I guess theyve got to try and balance the books. Definitely get more club focussed articles than elsewhere albeit they do come from the same viewpoint most of the time
		
Click to expand...

Yea, it's still leagues ahead of other sites, but you're not wrong on the clickbait stuff...but being able to filter and control what you follow helps.

and yep, ridiculous stat - but fair play to the owner for putting his money where his mouth is.


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

Neilds said:



			But how many actually come back and become a regular for the parent club?  I bet the majority don't
		
Click to expand...

I'll let you know next season haha.

The South American wondered we signed will be a long term prospect who will definitely come back unless someone throws buckets of money at us for him. Bowler is contingency for next season if we go down, but can see him slotting into the side even if we stay up. The Korean kid, I know nothing about, and was a bit weird, but he's really good, by all accounts.


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## fundy (Sep 2, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Yea, it's still leagues ahead of other sites, but you're not wrong on the clickbait stuff...but being able to filter and control what you follow helps.

and yep, ridiculous stat - but fair play to the owner for putting his money where his mouth is.
		
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one crazy ride for sure (enjoy!!!) but that stat puts what Forest have done and the premier league generally into perspective, utterly ridiculous amounts of money sloshing around currently


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			one crazy ride for sure (enjoy!!!) but that stat puts what Forest have done and the premier league generally into perspective, utterly ridiculous amounts of money sloshing around currently
		
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Yea, it's ridiculous. But £160m spent on 21 players isn't too bad when you look at Chelsea who have spent nearly £100m more on considerably less. But further evidence that there's too much money floating about.


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## Piece (Sep 2, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Just a shame they're utterly rubbish at just about every other aspect of officiating.
		
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I'll politely disagree. . I think the officials do an excellent job and are unfairly judged by some fans and experts who don't know the laws of the game well enough.


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

Piece said:



			I'll politely disagree. . I think the officials do an excellent job and are unfairly judged by some fans and experts who don't know the laws of the game well enough.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough  But Bristol City, for example, have been on the wrong end of some really questionable decisions already this season and had at least two apologies from the EFL about wrong decisions. Not ideal really.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 2, 2022)

Decent signing for Atletico


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## Piece (Sep 2, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Fair enough  But Bristol City, for example, have been on the wrong end of some really questionable decisions already this season and had at least two apologies from the EFL about wrong decisions. Not ideal really.
		
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Yeah, that will always happen though, if we are talking subjective decisions and no VAR. I'm sure Bristol City will get a generous decision somewhere down the line


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 44139

Decent signing for Atletico
		
Click to expand...

Freddie Prinze Jnr?


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## Piece (Sep 2, 2022)

@Aztecs27 - I'll be interested to see what you make of Emmanuel Dennis. For us in periods he was excellent, but goes missing oh so often. One time, I didn't notice he was sent off for offences he was that anonymous! He'll be good until Xmas then go AWOL is my prediction!


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 2, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Freddie Prinze Jnr?
		
Click to expand...

Having got a clue who is tbh 😉


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 2, 2022)

Piece said:



@Aztecs27 - I'll be interested to see what you make of Emmanuel Dennis. For us in periods he was excellent, but goes missing oh so often. One time, I didn't notice he was sent off for offences he was that anonymous! He'll be good until Xmas then go AWOL is my prediction!
		
Click to expand...

Worryingly, you're the second Watford fan to say basically exactly the same . He'll either want to play, or be banished to the U21's - so it's up to him. We signed enough scorers that him not pulling his weight would make him expendable.

So I'm hoping that Cooper works his magic and nurtures him, to ensure he's well motivated and wanting to win...we shall see.


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## GB72 (Sep 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			one crazy ride for sure (enjoy!!!) but that stat puts what Forest have done and the premier league generally into perspective, utterly ridiculous amounts of money sloshing around currently
		
Click to expand...

When you think that 2 Premiership Rugby clubs may go under for the sake of the sort of money paid for a mid level signing in the premier league and you realise how far ahead football is when it comes to the finances.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 2, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Fair enough  But Bristol City, for example, have been on the wrong end of some really questionable decisions already this season and had at least two apologies from the EFL about wrong decisions. Not ideal really.
		
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I wonder how many decisions, tough ones to, the officials get correct? Possibly many many times more than the ones they get wrong. Officials and fans barely remember those, probably not even discuss them at all. Newspapers don't highlight these correct decisions on their headlines.

However, as soon as an official makes a decision that turns out to be incorrect, even if it could have been tricky to make with the naked eye, then there is outrage from everyone. It is no wonder people think officials are rubbish, despite the fact they have had more training than any of us have had, sitting on our backside watching Match of the Day. It always makes me laugh when ex-footballing pundits criticise refs, using the line "they've not played the game". Next time they say that, just remember the next time a player gets sent off in which most people universally agree it was the correct decision, yet the ex-footballing manager of the player, or an isolated ex-footballing pundit starts to give their opinion why it should never have been a red card. Sometimes I think footballers are the worst culprits of actually not knowing the rules.


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## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 44139

Decent signing for Atletico
		
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She'd be a decent signing for anyone mate.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 3, 2022)

Salah EVS to have 1 shot on target V Everton.
Surely that’s coming in.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Salah EVS to have 1 shot on target V Everton.
Surely that’s coming in.
		
Click to expand...

 Ta, hope so


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## DaveR (Sep 3, 2022)

Onana doing his best to get his name in the frame for an Oscar 🤡


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## pokerjoke (Sep 3, 2022)

Englands No1 👏


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## Dando (Sep 3, 2022)

all game Pickford was taking 35-40 seconds for every goal/free kick and only gets booked in the last minute


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Ta, hope so
		
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Left that late 😨

Bet in & Liverpool drop more points 🙌😂😂


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 3, 2022)

Dando said:



			all game Pickford was taking 35-40 seconds for every goal/free kick and only gets booked in the last minute
		
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Don’t set them off 🤦‍♂️


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## Swango1980 (Sep 3, 2022)

That Pickford lad played like an England No.1


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That Pickford lad played like an England No.1
		
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rubbish shooting to be fair... if the T rex can reach you havent tried hard enough


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 3, 2022)

Doesn’t look great from that pic


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## pokerjoke (Sep 3, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 44155

Doesn’t look great from that pic
		
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He has a history doesn’t he 🤷‍♂️


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2022)

Now that's a joke 

How is that a foul on the keeper 

Balls gone...didn't stop him getting ball, it's a coming together


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## Cherry13 (Sep 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Now that's a joke

How is that a foul on the keeper

Balls gone...didn't stop him getting ball, it's a coming together
		
Click to expand...

West Ham or Newcastle???


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2022)

Cherry13 said:



			West Ham or Newcastle???
		
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didnt see the newcastle one

this one is bad enough, even chelsea fans saying its awful decision


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Now that's a joke

How is that a foul on the keeper

Balls gone...didn't stop him getting ball, it's a coming together
		
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Stopped Mendy getting up to deal with the subsequent shot after he’d beaten Bowen to the first ball. 

Always nice to get a late winner against a team that spent all game time wasting. 😁


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Stopped Mendy getting up to deal with the subsequent shot after he’d beaten Bowen to the first ball. 

Always nice to get a late winner against a team that spent all game time wasting. 😁
		
Click to expand...

Reece James should be off the pitch for kicking out at Antonio and then pushing him afters 

The entire world of football thinks it's not a foul, Mendy was never getting up, it doesn't suddenly make him a better keeper being fouled 

He was well beaten, Bowen tried to jump him and barely touched him 

Balls gone, never a foul

If he had the ball still then fair enough


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			didnt see the newcastle one

this one is bad enough, even chelsea fans saying its awful decision
		
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None around me are 😁


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Reece James should be off the pitch for kicking out at Antonio and then pushing him afters

The entire world of football thinks it's not a foul, Mendy was never getting up, it doesn't suddenly make him a better keeper being fouled

He was well beaten, Bowen tried to jump him and barely touched him

Balls gone, never a foul

If he had the ball still then fair enough
		
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Is that the Antonio who should have already gone for the sheer number of “professional” fouls that he committed? 

He beat Bowen to the ball, Bowen didn’t miss, it’s a foul. The entire world of football doesn’t think it’s not a foul, otherwise it wouldn’t have been disallowed, would it?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			None around me are 😁
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566097617830006790
Not in control of the ball , palmed it away, never getting up, Bowen tried to get out way


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566095428487094272
Staggering


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## Jimaroid (Sep 3, 2022)

Thought that was a decent derby today, good hard game and nothing too embarrassing with fewer cards issued than in recent clashes. Liverpool clearly the stronger team and we were lucky to have Pickford on top form. But we are showing some big improvements and getting some chances which is promising to see.

Oh boy do we need some goals though and the next few fixtures likely won’t bring them.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566095428487094272
Staggering
		
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there is talk of corruption which personally I dont believe it is at all. I think its shocking standard of officials 

I mean wasnt it chelsea spurs VAR made a mistake the other week and missed a hair pull?


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## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 44155

Doesn’t look great from that pic
		
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nah it’s a still frame which can manipulate the fact his leg could of been broken. Move on 🤔😳 balls only six inch from his foot from another angle.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566097617830006790
Not in control of the ball , palmed it away, never getting up, Bowen tried to get out way
		
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oh dear another shocker 😖


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## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2022)

Excuse my ignorance, but someone on here posted a week or so ago a review of the weekends controversial decisions, I think it was on ESPN. Could that person post a link to the ESPN reviews again. The alleged tackle by VVD and the disallowed West Ham Utd goal look rammel. It would be nice to see a view where rose tinted glasses are not worn.

Oh ah, tag me in please.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			oh dear another shocker 😖
		
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Draw would have been a fair result 

Moments before the winner cornet hit the post, should have scored and then they go other end and score, happens 

That though is shocking officially and I wouldn't be surprised if both the Var official and ref are stood down for a weekend 

Chelsea in all sorts of trouble if they need to rely on dodgy calls to win against lesser clubs


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Excuse my ignorance, but someone on here posted a week or so ago a review of the weekends controversial decisions, I think it was on ESPN. Could that person post a link to the ESPN reviews again. The alleged tackle by VVD and the disallowed West Ham Utd goal look rammel. It would be nice to see a view where rose tinted glasses are not worn.

Oh ah, tag me in please.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565629747958366216


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566083138010468353
Bit naughty


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566083138010468353
Bit naughty
		
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It's not a good one, but he was yellowed so nothing can be done now 

Disappointed in the chelsea manager, it's about time a winning manager who gets the decision comes out and say nah var was wrong there we just benefited from it 

Chelsea fan (over land and sea) just got in to work, first words were that was an awful decision , our refs are shocking


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 3, 2022)

Not sure Haaland will cut it in the Prem tbh.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566083138010468353
Bit naughty
		
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Definitely looks like he suddenly put force into that movement as well, just before he made contact.

It seems the VAR in that match has had a shocker. Almost like there was a Chelsea gangster with him, making sure nothing went against his club


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2022)

If Haalands ankle doesn’t cause him any issues then I suspect he will break Salah goal record for the season , clinical and the chances are getting to him , Mings did well first half by getting tight to him

Edit - pick that out 👏


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## Orikoru (Sep 3, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not sure Haaland will cut it in the Prem tbh.
		
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Most annoying thing is, Kane will probably beat Shearer's Prem record, then Haaland will beat that as well 3 years later. 😂


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## Piece (Sep 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is that the Antonio who should have already gone for the sheer number of “professional” fouls that he committed?

He beat Bowen to the ball, Bowen didn’t miss, it’s a foul. The entire world of football doesn’t think it’s not a foul, otherwise it wouldn’t have been disallowed, would it?
		
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I see Bowen leaving a foot in when he didn't need to. Why not hurdle over? It's a foul and VAR is correct.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2022)

Seems strange that the linesman flagged then when it looked very close


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## Orikoru (Sep 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems strange that the linesman flagged then when it looked very close
		
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Talking about Coutinho's one? He was onside I think, linesman made a mistake. Ederson had given up on the effort though so who knows if he would have saved it if it was still live. Was a good strike.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 3, 2022)

Another shocker, this time working for City. Coutinho scored, but before he did play stopped for offside.

Replay shows he was clearly onside


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Most annoying thing is, Kane will probably beat Shearer's Prem record, then Haaland will beat that as well 3 years later. 😂
		
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Looks like City not getting Kane as worked out pretty well for them.
Half the price for a younger player.


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## Orikoru (Sep 3, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looks like City not getting Kane as worked out pretty well for them.
Half the price for a younger player.
		
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Was always going to be the case and that's exactly why Levy held out at a price they probably wouldn't pay. 😂


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Was always going to be the case and that's exactly why Levy held out at a price they probably wouldn't pay. 😂
		
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Think Kane might be a bit gutted?


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## Jensen (Sep 3, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Think Kane might be a bit gutted?
		
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I think so, it would’ve been his dream move to not only win silverware but also pick up shed loads of cash.
I wouldn’t have held it against him, he’s been an excellent servant to the club and I would’ve wished him all the best.


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## Orikoru (Sep 3, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Think Kane might be a bit gutted?
		
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Definitely was at the time of course, but sources in the club say he's happy we've shown ambition by bringing in Conte and actually spending money on players for once. His options are limited now if he wants to stay in the Prem and get the record so he kind of has to get on with it.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2022)

Piece said:



			I see Bowen leaving a foot in when he didn't need to. Why not hurdled over? It's a foul and VAR is correct.
		
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So a keeper has not controlled it and “ you don’t leave a foot in”.🤔 Nah, not in my lifetime. Furthermore, VVD left a foot in. There’s a massive difference.


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## Jensen (Sep 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Most annoying thing is, Kane will probably beat Shearer's Prem record, then Haaland will beat that as well 3 years later. 😂
		
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The only chance Kane had of beating that record was if he got his move to Man City.
There’s no way he’s gonna beat that with Spurs


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## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Another shocker, this time working for City. Coutinho scored, but before he did play stopped for offside.

Replay shows he was clearly onside
		
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This is what I see is wrong with VAR. The lino clearly sees an offside and Flags, yet he was not Offside. He got it wrong. The ref blows so the game stops That point. Why does the Lino flag so close to the 18 yd box.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 3, 2022)

Piece said:



			I see Bowen leaving a foot in when he didn't need to. Why not hurdled over? It's a foul and VAR is correct.
		
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Agreed


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## Swango1980 (Sep 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This is what I see is wrong with VAR. The lino clearly sees an offside and Flags, yet he was not Offside. He got it wrong. The ref blows so the game stops That point. Why does the Lino flag so close to the 18 yd box.
		
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It's not VAR with this one. The linesman was simply too hasty in putting the flag up. He is meant to delay it, but didn't. Once he has done that, the ref is meant to stop play, as it is assumes the offside is obvious.


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## Orikoru (Sep 3, 2022)

Jensen said:



			The only chance Kane had of beating that record was if he got his move to Man City.
There’s no way he’s gonna beat that with Spurs
		
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What do you mean? He's only like 73 goals behind. He'll easily play til he's 35 because he's a machine, so he only needs about 15 goals a season. Easy.


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## Piece (Sep 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This is what I see is wrong with VAR. The lino clearly sees an offside and Flags, yet he was not Offside. He got it wrong. The ref blows so the game stops That point. Why does the Lino flag so close to the 18 yd box.
		
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Nothing to do with VAR. Lino flags and ref blows whistle before ‘goal’ scored.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 3, 2022)

This Lewandowski kid is quite tasty.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2022)

Piece said:



			Nothing to do with VAR. Lino flags and ref blows whistle before ‘goal’ scored.
		
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Why flag though when you know VAR will cover it. He has flagged because he thinks it is obvious. BUt when it went to replays which is what VAR use. He was wrong.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Why flag though when you know VAR will cover it. He has flagged because he thinks it is obvious. BUt when it went to replays which is what VAR use. He was wrong.
		
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Exactly. The fault is 100% the linesman. He flagged too early, thus never giving VAR a chance.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Exactly. The fault is 100% the linesman. He flagged too early, thus never giving VAR a chance.
		
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i have said this before and I will say it again, referees and officials struggled before VAR. They are still struggling even to the point they now have VAR. The people that made mistakes are running VAR. City got away with one. It’s still poor officiating.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			nah it’s a still frame which can manipulate the fact his leg could of been broken. Move on 🤔😳 balls only six inch from his foot from another angle.
		
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It’s even worse in real time after seeing it on MOTD.
Red card all day for me.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 4, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			It’s even worse in real time after seeing it on MOTD.
Red card all day for me.
		
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I would say it was an orange.
You see tackles like that in every game.
It’s just below his shin pad and dosnt look good.
No complaints if it was red, the lad did him with a bit of skill it happens.
 but we would have a lot of players sent off if refs were consistent with that.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 4, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			i have said this before and I will say it again, referees and officials struggled before VAR. They are still struggling even to the point they now have VAR. The people that made mistakes are running VAR. City got away with one. It’s still poor officiating.
		
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Agree.
Not a good day for VAR refs.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 4, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566186333797847044Think shearer hits the nail on the head nicely ..


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## Fade and Die (Sep 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566186333797847044Think shearer hits the nail on the head nicely ..
		
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Same ol same ol…big clubs still getting the dodgy decisions. 

Embarrassing some people trying to defend it. 😳


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## pauljames87 (Sep 4, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Same ol same ol…big clubs still getting the dodgy decisions.

Embarrassing some people trying to defend it. 😳
		
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Especially when only weeks ago their own team didn't get a hair pull against them and post 

"Allegedly it did and it wasn’t a red card. If that doesn’t prove it’s unfit for purpose then I don’t know what does. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤔"

But hey no worries 99% of people know Chelsea needed a dodgy decision to beat west ham after investing £271 million during the window on an already decent base squad


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## RichA (Sep 4, 2022)

I'm neither a Chelsea or West Ham fan. Mendy wouldn't have saved the shot, but I thought the West Ham player left his foot low to strike him when he could easily have jumped over. But Mendy's staying down for the kick was pathetic. The whole incident was just typical petty Premier League silliness.
The MotD pundits last night are a crew that always apply a different standard to attackers and defenders in terms of what's a fair contact and what gives a player the "right to go down".
You couldn't pay me enough to referee pro football.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 4, 2022)

Poor Richarlison gets a yellow card for taking his shirt off after scoring. And then VAR disallows the goal


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## Piece (Sep 4, 2022)

RichA said:



			I'm neither a Chelsea or West Ham fan. Mendy wouldn't have saved the shot, but I thought the West Ham player left his foot low to strike him when he could easily have jumped over. But Mendy's staying down for the kick was pathetic. The whole incident was just typical petty Premier League silliness.
The MotD pundits last night are a crew that always apply a different standard to attackers and defenders in terms of what's a fair contact and what gives a player the "right to go down".
You couldn't pay me enough to referee pro football.
		
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Can't argue with that and pretty much spot on. 

Watching the Brentford-Leeds game, Leeds keeper comes out and the Brentford player hurdles cleanly without leaving a trailing boot in. Tony then scores with a great finish. 🤷‍♂️


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## BiMGuy (Sep 4, 2022)

I’m 50/50 on the Bowen incident.

Bowen 100% left his foot in, but the contact was minimal. 

I don’t mind the odd mistake from referees. It’s not an easy job especially at the speed the game is played at in the PL. But VAR is an absolute shambles and needs to be binned.


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## Yorkhacker (Sep 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Poor Richarlison gets a yellow card for taking his shirt off after scoring. And then VAR disallows the goal 

Click to expand...

That's an interesting one. Should he have been booked for something that happened during a passage of play that wasn't 'legal'?


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## Piece (Sep 4, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I’m 50/50 on the Bowen incident.

Bowen 100% left his foot in, but the contact was minimal.

I don’t mind the odd mistake from referees. It’s not an easy job especially at the speed the game is played at in the PL. But VAR is an absolute shambles and needs to be binned.
		
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Do we really want to go back to just officials decisions with all the scrutiny replays we get? This will just make the noise about officials even more hysterically stupid.


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## rudebhoy (Sep 4, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Forest’s owner has re-invested every single penny of their promotion payment back into the club for this transfer window, in order for them to build a team that can compete.

Bournemouth is, and will always be, a tinpot club, as evidenced.
		
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This hasn't aged well


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## BiMGuy (Sep 4, 2022)

Piece said:



			Do we really want to go back to just officials decisions with all the scrutiny replays we get? This will just make the noise about officials even more hysterically stupid.
		
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For me yes.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 4, 2022)

So, interesting stuff.

West Ham decision was wrong
Newcastle decision was wrong

VVD deserved an orange, couldn't have argued if it was red
Michael Oliver didn't follow the VAR advice 😳. First time in over a year. @Stuart_C did you see that? Let's hope it's not the last time.

Forest, what happened?
Ivan Toney's value is increasing 😄

Quite a day.


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## Piece (Sep 4, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			For me yes.
		
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Time to watch The Championship and below 😉


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			So, interesting stuff.

West Ham decision was wrong
Newcastle decision was wrong

VVD deserved an orange, couldn't have argued if it was red
Michael Oliver didn't follow the VAR advice 😳. First time in over a year. @Stuart_C did you see that? Let's hope it's not the last time.

Forest, what happened?
Ivan Toney's value is increasing 😄

Quite a day.
		
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Well a good summary.
VAR = if you let an idiot fly a plane it’s going to crash!

What a free kick by Toney btw.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 4, 2022)

Piece said:



			Time to watch The Championship and below 😉
		
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Probably will be next season if Leeds continue to defend like they did yesterday.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well a good summary.
VAR =* if you let an idiot fly a plane it’s going to crash!*

What a free kick by Toney btw.
		
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Well, planes were not around when Confucius was making wise statements but that definitely sounds like one of his 😆.

Toney is getting better and better. Brentford did well to keep him for another season.


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## Jimaroid (Sep 4, 2022)

I feel sorry for Dale Johnson. He’s probably going to have to do an all nighter tonight for his Monday VAR review article to make it out on time tomorrow. 😀


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## pauljames87 (Sep 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			So, interesting stuff.

West Ham decision was wrong
Newcastle decision was wrong

VVD deserved an orange, couldn't have argued if it was red
Michael Oliver didn't follow the VAR advice 😳. First time in over a year. @Stuart_C did you see that? Let's hope it's not the last time.

Forest, what happened?
Ivan Toney's value is increasing 😄

Quite a day.
		
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If Oliver sets an example and more refs follow fair play because the monitor is just becoming a delaying tactic to overturn the decison


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## Fade and Die (Sep 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			If Oliver sets an example and more refs follow fair play because the monitor is just becoming a delaying tactic to overturn the decison
		
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Howard Webb is replacing Mike Riley as the Head of Prem referees soon. On talksport they reckon he’s been doing a great job in the US and VAR is simply not controversial.
Fingers crossed he can do the same here….

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...-referees-when-mls-contract-ends?platform=amp


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## pauljames87 (Sep 4, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Howard Webb is replacing Mike Riley as the Head of Prem referees soon. On talksport they reckon he’s been doing a great job in the US and VAR is simply not controversial.
Fingers crossed he can do the same here….

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...-referees-when-mls-contract-ends?platform=amp

Click to expand...

Always liked webb, thought he was a good fair referee

Never a fan of "all about me" Riley


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 4, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			This hasn't aged well 

Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣 like milk sat out in the sun! 

 I’m still absolutely livid about yesterday. 2-0 up and cruising but we decide to sit back and invite pressure 🙃
hopefully that’s the wake up call needed to fix the issues we still have, and now we’ve got 8 days until Leeds away to get right. Next 6 games are massive.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 4, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			That's an interesting one. Should he have been booked for something that happened during a passage of play that wasn't 'legal'?
		
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I guess so, yes. If a player gets sent off for a 2 footed lunge, then afterwards it is decided play should not have continued due to offside, it is still a red. So, if rules day it is a definite yellow for taking shirt off in that manner, then the yellow should still stand 

That being said, I don't really understand the rule. Why should it he a yellow? Can't be literally be about getting half naked, as players take their tops off after the game. Can't be about getting the crowd into a frenzy, as that happens after a goal anyway. I don't think fans are sent over the edge when they see a topless footballer?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess so, yes. If a player gets sent off for a 2 footed lunge, then afterwards it is decided play should not have continued due to offside, it is still a red. So, if rules day it is a definite yellow for taking shirt off in that manner, then the yellow should still stand

That being said, I don't really understand the rule. Why should it he a yellow? Can't be literally be about getting half naked, as players take their tops off after the game. Can't be about getting the crowd into a frenzy, as that happens after a goal anyway. I don't think fans are sent over the edge when they see a topless footballer?
		
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Culturally unacceptable in some parts of the world. I can't remember if it is a fifa edict or the PL appeasing countries that they sell the rights to but that is the gist of it from memory.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Sep 4, 2022)

The amount of protection the 'keepers are getting nowadays is ridiculous


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 4, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62787324

The same poor refs are now looking at the replies and still doing the same poor decisions


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## BrianM (Sep 4, 2022)

I’m maybe going against the Majority here, but I think it was a free kick to Chelsea, Bowen never had to leave his foot in, very soft though.
Newcastle one on the other hand was an absolute shocker.
Van Dijk should of been a red as well, that’s a shocking challenge.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 4, 2022)

Alan Shearer saying what I have said since VAR started.

BBC Sport pundit Alan Shearer said: "It is shocking, abysmal, disgraceful - Willock is going to head that ball, so Mitchell shoves him. Michael Salisbury gets it right, it is Lee Mason [VAR official] who somehow bizarrely tells him 'you have made a howler'.

"Lee Mason is the one to blame because it is an inexperienced referee. At this level you have got to get that decision right, he has had no help from VAR. Far too many errors, *VAR is not the problem, it is the people who are running it*."


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## ger147 (Sep 4, 2022)

Presumably Rodgers will be gone very soon, perhaps before next Saturday's game against Aston Villa.

Any names in the frame to take his place?


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## RichA (Sep 4, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			BBC Sport pundit Alan Shearer said: "It is shocking, abysmal, disgraceful - Willock is going to head that ball, so Mitchell shoves him. Michael Salisbury gets it right, it is Lee Mason [VAR official] who somehow bizarrely tells him 'you have made a howler'.
		
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Ironic, when a sizeable chunk of Shearer's goals were achieved by giving a defender or keeper an energetic shove before he put it in the net. I was never a fan of him as a player because I thought he got away with too much.


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## Piece (Sep 4, 2022)

RichA said:



			Ironic, when a sizeable chunk of Shearer's goals were achieved by giving a defender or keeper an energetic shove before he put it in the net. I was never a fan of him as a player because I thought he got away with too much.
		
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Indeed.

"Shearer in shock defence of a disallowed Newcastle goal." 🤣


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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)

How can that be allowed, clear foul.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 4, 2022)

Bored of the ManU players crying and complaining to the ref already. That’s a soft decision.


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## Dando (Sep 4, 2022)

ger147 said:



			Presumably Rodgers will be gone very soon, perhaps before next Saturday's game against Aston Villa.

Any names in the frame to take his place?
		
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Big Sam


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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Bored of the ManU players crying and complaining to the ref already. *That’s a soft decision.*

Click to expand...

.................... but a correct one.


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## paddyc (Sep 4, 2022)

Ref bottled It!


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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)




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## Dando (Sep 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			.................... but a correct one.
		
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Erikson has been taking lessons from Tom Daley and Fernandes


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## Tashyboy (Sep 4, 2022)

RichA said:



			Ironic, when a sizeable chunk of Shearer's goals were achieved by giving a defender or keeper an energetic shove before he put it in the net. I was never a fan of him as a player because I thought he got away with too much.
		
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It was but in the same sense, pundits who were forwards protect forwards and defenders the same. Shearer as a forward is saying VAR stinks as it is. Again Shearer and others played in a different era where you could get away with more.


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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)

Dando said:



			Erikson has been taking lessons from Tom Daley and Fernandes
		
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McTominay had just been penalised for a push, what was the difference?


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## Tashyboy (Sep 4, 2022)

Piece said:



			Indeed.

"Shearer in shock defence of a disallowed Newcastle goal." 🤣
		
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I think he was talking about this weekends decisions not decision, it seems the prem league agree as they have asked for an enquiry.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			McTominay had just been penalised for a push, what was the difference?
		
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One was slight contact, the other a two handed push in the back.


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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



*One was slight contact*, the other a two handed push in the back.
		
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But a push, never-the-less.


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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)

But not undeserved, to be fair.


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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)




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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)




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## fundy (Sep 4, 2022)

well were going to be a fun watch for the neutrals this year................


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## paddyc (Sep 4, 2022)

Better team lost


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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)

Great result and 4th win on the bounce.
Maybe 3-1 was slightly flattering ................................ but I don't care, the result was deserved.
Signing of the season, EtH?


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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Better team lost
		
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, based on what?


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## Dando (Sep 4, 2022)

Slime said:



, based on what?
		
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Conceding the most goals


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## BrianM (Sep 4, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566474927619858432
This made me laugh more than it should have 🤣🤣🤣


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## paddyc (Sep 4, 2022)

Slime said:



, based on what?
		
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Playing the better football,  creating  the more chances,  having a perfectly  good goal disallowed  etc etc...


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## Slime (Sep 4, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Playing the better football,  creating  the more chances,  having a perfectly  good goal disallowed  etc etc...
		
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.................... and only having half the number of shots on target as United?
Possession is irrelevant if you do nothing with it.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 4, 2022)

As a neutral it wasn’t a bad game to watch. To say Utd were lucky to win it is more than a bit harsh.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 4, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Playing the better football,  creating  the more chances,  having a perfectly  good goal disallowed  etc etc...
		
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All true but you missed out Shocking Defending!


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## pokerjoke (Sep 4, 2022)

We will take the victory,played some decent football.
Impressed with Arsenal played some lovely football.
Not impressed with Arteta though ,just gets to involved,and his subs baffled me as it did GN.
ETH a long way to go but certainly has the balls to make tough decisions.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 4, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566463534518730753
Least they have admitted they were wrong .


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## paddyc (Sep 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			All true but you missed out Shocking Defending!
		
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True mate that's why we lost and  Utd deserved  to win cause they took their chances. Don't have a problem  with the defeat as there was a lot of positives.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566463534518730753
Least they have admitted they were wrong .
		
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Except they weren't; if Bowen got to the ball first and the contact was the same Moyes would be screaming for a penalty against Mendy, the penalty Bowen was hoping to win by dragging his leg rather than lifting it.  

Still, good to see Moyes and Rice will be dealt with in the same way as Tuchel for their comments.  Oh, hang on...


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## pauljames87 (Sep 4, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Except they weren't; if Bowen got to the ball first and the contact was the same Moyes would be screaming for a penalty against Mendy, the penalty Bowen was hoping to win by dragging his leg rather than lifting it. 

Still, good to see Moyes and Rice will be dealt with in the same way as Tuchel for their comments.  Oh, hang on... 

Click to expand...

Touchel implied the ref was bent against Chelsea. Said he shouldn't be allowed to ref Chelsea games 

Even tho Moyes and rice were correct that the decision was wrong (proven by they admitting it was so) they shouldn't have said what they said 

However one thing you can't do is imply a referee is corrupt, bias etc .. always been the same.


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## fundy (Sep 4, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Better team lost
		
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not today they didnt mate 

we played some lovely football at times but were wasteful upfront, naive at the back and even more naive from the manager!!!

against a side who had one main threat we continued to overcommit and allow them the longer ball counter attack with pace. At 1-1 we shouldve controlled the ball and game instead we went gung ho for no reason and as soon as we conceded Arteta committed hari kari with his subs

we'll play worse and win for sure but we were our own worst enemies today


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## fundy (Sep 4, 2022)

Oh joy, Diego Costa is coming back to the premier league


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 5, 2022)

Ross Barkley has moved to Nice. They are gathering quite a tidy team, backed by INEOS money. Interesting stuff happening there, hopefully will push PSG as well.


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## Neilds (Sep 5, 2022)

Are there any Preston NE fans on the forum - or have they all been bored to death by their team this season?  8 games in and they have had 5 0-0 draws all ready.  The other three games were all decided by 1 goal )2 wins, 1 defeat).

Not much entertainment in seeing 3 goals in 8 games, must be a long 90 minutes in some of those matches.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 5, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Are there any Preston NE fans on the forum - or have they all been bored to death by their team this season?  8 games in and they have had 5 0-0 draws all ready.  The other three games were all decided by 1 goal )2 wins, 1 defeat).

Not much entertainment in seeing 3 goals in 8 games, must be a long 90 minutes in some of those matches.

Click to expand...

Only 1 defeat in 8 though


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## paddyc (Sep 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			not today they didnt mate 

we played some lovely football at times but were wasteful upfront, naive at the back and even more naive from the manager!!!

against a side who had one main threat we continued to overcommit and allow them the longer ball counter attack with pace. At 1-1 we shouldve controlled the ball and game instead we went gung ho for no reason and as soon as we conceded Arteta committed hari kari with his subs

we'll play worse and win for sure but we were our own worst enemies today 

Click to expand...

Agreed mate but in terms of possession and passing and chances created we were the better team


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## Piece (Sep 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566463534518730753
Least they have admitted they were wrong .
		
Click to expand...

This is just lip-service to pour water over the fire that is mass VAR hysteria.

What are they going to discuss that was "wrong"? The Refs opinion that in the eyes of the law they think they made the right decision in the first place or listen to the ex-pros going overboard saying its shocking and scandalous?

It's a fact of a ref's life that their opinion is not going to please every single person in the footballing world. MotD et al tend to hone in on the 3% or so of potentially contentious decisions, conveniently ignoring the fact that they get 97% of decisions right. It's never ever going to be 100% correct as subjective decisions are exactly that - subjective. There's no absolute. I get that some decisions will be marginal, but you only have to listen to opposing managers, players, pundits about what they think about VAR - it's great when it goes their way or for their team and scandalous when it doesn't. They are part of the problem.

What is "ruining the game" is this over the top reaction to some decisions. Scrapping VAR to go back to where we were will make the situation worse - there were universal calls for VAR years ago as decisions were costing manager's jobs (not the fact that they bought poorly and their multi million pound striker dives and can't hit a cow's rear end with a banjo). Now we have it, we seem to focussing in on exceptions and making that a major thing.

Lastly, this rubbish about getting ex pros involved in VAR is hog-wash. They may "know the game" but a lot simply just don't know the laws (Danny Murphy on Sat on the Villa disallowed goal, "not offside...as the ball went backwards..." Really,  Danny, is that what you know about the offside law being an ex-top pro?). Train-up pro to become world class qualified refs, understand why fouls are fouls, etc., then ex-pros have a case for being involved and adding value; until then stay out of VAR.

Rant off.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 5, 2022)

Piece said:



			This is just lip-service to pour water over the fire that is mass VAR hysteria.

What are they going to discuss that was "wrong"? The Refs opinion that in the eyes of the law they think they made the right decision in the first place or listen to the ex-pros going overboard saying its shocking and scandalous?

It's a fact of a ref's life that their opinion is not going to please every single person in the footballing world. MotD et al tend to hone in on the 3% or so of potentially contentious decisions, conveniently ignoring the fact that they get 97% of decisions right. It's never ever going to be 100% correct as subjective decisions are exactly that - subjective. There's no absolute. I get that some decisions will be marginal, but you only have to listen to opposing managers, players, pundits about what they think about VAR - it's great when it goes their way or for their team and scandalous when it doesn't. They are part of the problem.

What is "ruining the game" is this over the top reaction to some decisions. Scrapping VAR to go back to where we were will make the situation worse - there were universal calls for VAR years ago as decisions were costing manager's jobs (not the fact that they bought poorly and their multi million pound striker dives and can't hit a cow's rear end with a banjo). Now we have it, we seem to focussing in on exceptions and making that a major thing.

Lastly, this rubbish about getting ex pros involved in VAR is hog-wash. They may "know the game" but a lot simply just don't know the laws (Danny Murphy on Sat on the Villa disallowed goal, "not offside...as the ball went backwards..." Really,  Danny, is that what you know about the offside law being an ex-top pro?). Train-up pro to become world class qualified refs, understand why fouls are fouls, etc., then ex-pros have a case for being involved and adding value; until then stay out of VAR.

Rant off.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst many of these above are good points it doesn't relate to what I posted.

Ex pros involved , bad idea. Bias will come in

Scrap var, bad idea 

The use of var ATM isn't good . Those two goals disallowed that they have admitted were wrongly disallowed were not part of the scope for var, they weren't a clear and obvious error 

If we could hear the convo between the ref team like rugby maybe we could understand more 

Ie here Mick (ref) did you see the potential foul on the keeper in build up there 

Yes Dave I did. In my view it wasn't ...

Job done no error 

Or no I missed it I'd like to see what you mean .. Mick goes to monitor to see if he was right or wrong 

What seems to be consistent in the ex ref views is the decision was influenced by play acting by the keeper , I swear we have seen many a goal with a keeper down injured why worried so much about it when he was barely touched? Imagine if Bowen hadn't attempted to jump over him he would have been rolling around a lot more


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## Orikoru (Sep 5, 2022)

Piece said:



			This is just lip-service to pour water over the fire that is mass VAR hysteria.

What are they going to discuss that was "wrong"? The Refs opinion that in the eyes of the law they think they made the right decision in the first place or listen to the ex-pros going overboard saying its shocking and scandalous?

It's a fact of a ref's life that their opinion is not going to please every single person in the footballing world. MotD et al tend to hone in on the 3% or so of potentially contentious decisions, conveniently ignoring the fact that they get 97% of decisions right. It's never ever going to be 100% correct as subjective decisions are exactly that - subjective. There's no absolute. I get that some decisions will be marginal, but you only have to listen to opposing managers, players, pundits about what they think about VAR - it's great when it goes their way or for their team and scandalous when it doesn't. They are part of the problem.

What is "ruining the game" is this over the top reaction to some decisions. Scrapping VAR to go back to where we were will make the situation worse - there were universal calls for VAR years ago as decisions were costing manager's jobs (not the fact that they bought poorly and their multi million pound striker dives and can't hit a cow's rear end with a banjo). Now we have it, we seem to focussing in on exceptions and making that a major thing.

Lastly, this rubbish about getting ex pros involved in VAR is hog-wash. They may "know the game" but a lot simply just don't know the laws (Danny Murphy on Sat on the Villa disallowed goal, "not offside...as the ball went backwards..." Really,  Danny, is that what you know about the offside law being an ex-top pro?). Train-up pro to become world class qualified refs, understand why fouls are fouls, etc., then ex-pros have a case for being involved and adding value; until then stay out of VAR.

Rant off.
		
Click to expand...

You could forgive a decision like the Palace Newcastle one before VAR, it would have been easy to miss the shove in real time. With VAR though I don't think it's forgivable. We are putting up with 3 minute or more delays to the game, so the trade-off is supposed to be that they at least get the decision right - somehow they're still not doing that. On video the push by the Palace defender is clear as day. I honestly don't know how it's been missed. But I also don't know what the answer is, because I agree that just putting ex-players in charge of VAR probably isn't that helpful unless they undergo the full training that would be required to actually be an official.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Whilst many of these above are good points it doesn't relate to what I posted.

Ex pros involved , bad idea. Bias will come in

Scrap var, bad idea

The use of var ATM isn't good . Those two goals disallowed that they have admitted were wrongly disallowed were not part of the scope for var, they weren't a clear and obvious error

If we could hear the convo between the ref team like rugby maybe we could understand more

Ie here Mick (ref) did you see the potential foul on the keeper in build up there

Yes Dave I did. In my view it wasn't ...

Job done no error

Or no I missed it I'd like to see what you mean .. Mick goes to monitor to see if he was right or wrong

What seems to be consistent in the ex ref views is the decision was influenced by play acting by the keeper , I swear we have seen many a goal with a keeper down injured why worried so much about it when he was barely touched? Imagine if Bowen hadn't attempted to jump over him he would have been rolling around a lot more
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they could, at the least, have two VAR guys behind the scenes? Perhaps that would stop issues where you have one guy that thinks the referee needs to review something, but if they had a colleague sitting with them they could stop them in their tracks by quickly questioning them behind the scenes. Once the on-pitch referee is alerted, and the whole world has their eyes on them, they are then under extra pressure to reverse the decision. Having 2 guys in VAR will at least help them both agree an "obvious" mistake has been made. If they both don't agree, it sort of helps define it as an unclear issue, don't bother the on pitch ref.

Alternatively, review Lee Mason's role as a VAR ref. It seems to be that in many of the biggest VAR mistakes this weekend, and in the past, Lee Mason is often mentioned as the guy on VAR.


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## Jensen (Sep 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			Oh joy, Diego Costa is coming back to the premier league 

Click to expand...

Horrible to play against but great in your side.
Whose he linked with ?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 5, 2022)

The actual software isn’t the issue, its the standard of referees who are left making the decisions and how they apply them.

Until the standard of refereeing improves, VAR will continually expose them for how inept they are.


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Horrible to play against but great in your side.
Whose he linked with ?
		
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Having a medical at Wolves on all accounts


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## Swango1980 (Sep 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			Having a medical at Wolves on all accounts
		
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I hear he hasn't been contracted with a club for quite some time. Wonder what he has been up to?


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## Jimaroid (Sep 5, 2022)

Finally! Some nice supper time reading. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566841306881708032


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## Dando (Sep 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I hear he hasn't been contracted with a club for quite some time. Wonder what he has been up to?
		
Click to expand...

Fighting in an empty room


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## Tashyboy (Sep 5, 2022)

surprise



Jimaroid said:



			Finally! Some nice supper time reading.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566841306881708032

Click to expand...

i remember this from the other week and it was this link that I requested to be posted. So cheers Jim. It is one of the best posts on here re VAR for months. it is lengthy. To that end I wonder how many have read it.
Bottom line, the prem league have had some concern over the standard of referees, VAR decisions and the running of VAR for some time.  What a surprise. To say that players should not be involved with VAR because they don’t know the rules. Reading that link it seems some referees are struggling with the rules. After some of the screw ups, some refs are not getting a game this weekend and some are not sitting as VAR Officials.  😳 Am sure a weekend at the beach will sort the incompetence out. 
One of the reasons I jacked in going to games was VAR Being implemented at games and fans/ me sat there for 2,3,4 minutes not knowing what the hell was going on. Yet on TV you know exactly what is going off. It was purgatory. It got to the stage where high octane games were rammel due to not knowing whether to celebrate goals or not. However in that ESPN link it explains how German bundesliga football runs VAR. Fans are kept in the loop. Referees are interviewEd after games. 
VAR has a long way to go in this country to be accepted coz at the moment it is rammel.


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## adam6177 (Sep 5, 2022)

Just watching the Boro Sunderland game.... I wonder how a weekend of all the championship refs getting the premier League games would go.  This fella doesn't seem to fall for any nonsense, don't give "soft" free kicks... Just waves away and tells them to get up. Very very refreshing.


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Just watching the Boro Sunderland game.... I wonder how a weekend of all the championship refs getting the premier League games would go.  This fella doesn't seem to fall for any nonsense, don't give "soft" free kicks... Just waves away and tells them to get up. Very very refreshing.
		
Click to expand...


could probably get a game up front for Sunderland too lol, geez theyve been awful


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## Jimaroid (Sep 5, 2022)

Yep Tashy, VAR has a long way to go. As do referees. As do professional footballers. As do the laws of the game. I think the problems are intertwined and we’re seeing the resulting mess in combinations of problems. To me VAR has just amplified problems that have always been on the pitch.

Personally I think it stems from the laws having too much subjectivity in them. The poorly defined definition and interpretation of a players arm for handball is a good example. Sometimes I don’t see how any two referees can ever come to the same consistent decision - because the laws have subjectivity in them.

It’s a discussion that will never end. VAR has to exist due to the level the game has become financially IMO. But I can see how it’s also wrecking football for the match goers.

Like everyone I think if we could get consistency we would at least know where we stand week to week. But this flip flopping and uncertainty needs sorted out as it’s turning into a cancer plaguing every game.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 5, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Yep Tashy, VAR has a long way to go. As do referees. *As do professional footballers. *As do the laws of the game. I think the problems are intertwined and we’re seeing the resulting mess in combinations of problems. To me VAR has just amplified problems that have always been on the pitch.

Personally I think it stems from the laws having too much subjectivity in them. The poorly defined definition and interpretation of a players arm for handball is a good example. Sometimes I don’t see how any two referees can ever come to the same consistent decision - because the laws have subjectivity in them.

It’s a discussion that will never end. VAR has to exist due to the level the game has become financially IMO. But I can see how it’s also wrecking football for the match goers.

Like everyone I think if we could get consistency we would at least know where we stand week to week. But this flip flopping and uncertainty needs sorted out as it’s turning into a cancer plaguing every game.
		
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And herein lies the biggest problem.  For as much as we berate referees about what they get wrong, and rightly so in certain circumstances, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to think that when they are trying to sort out 22 conmen they actually do bloody well to get as much right as they do.

In respect of the game I was at, there were complaints that the keeper stayed down unnecessarily to try & buy the free kick.  If he did, he was only afforded that opportunity because the incoming forward trailed a leg into him to try & buy the penalty (he turns round & starts to appeal until he realises they have the ball).  Hurdle the keeper (and he could have done) and you get your point.  

Throughout the game players were going down like they'd been shot, despite being built like brick houses.  Wrestling; sly digs; feigning injury; life threatening cramp; you name it, it went on.  And one referee & two assistants trying to sort it all out in an atmosphere of fans and players baying in their ears.

So is it the officials and VAR to blame; or the players, and their coaches?  I've watched a fair bit of professional youth football and it doesn't seem to be there, and the referees seem to do a better job, despite being less experienced.  But it changes at full professional level.

As the old song says, when you point your finger, there's three more fingers pointing back at you; is it time players and coaches looked in the mirror and took some responsibility for this mess?  And do the pundits with their "he was entitled to go down" bull also bear some responsibility?


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 5, 2022)

BrianM said:



			I’m maybe going against the Majority here, but I think it was a free kick to Chelsea, Bowen never had to leave his foot in, *very soft though.*
Newcastle one on the other hand was an absolute shocker.
Van Dijk should of been a red as well, that’s a shocking challenge.
		
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Was Bowen actually as bad as VVD?  Got him with the leading foot and left the trailing foot in.




But the keeper was hamming it up... 

And VAR was wrong to award the keeper the free kick... 

Winston Churchill wasn't wrong.


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## BrianM (Sep 6, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Was Bowen actually as bad as VVD?  Got him with the leading foot and left the trailing foot in.

View attachment 44194


But the keeper was hamming it up... 

And VAR was wrong to award the keeper the free kick... 

Winston Churchill wasn't wrong.
		
Click to expand...

It was the correct decision, Bowen should of hurdled him and they have a draw.
I’m not sure why the governing body said they got it wrong.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 6, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Was Bowen actually as bad as VVD?  Got him with the leading foot and left the trailing foot in.

View attachment 44194


But the keeper was hamming it up... 

And VAR was wrong to award the keeper the free kick... 

Winston Churchill wasn't wrong.
		
Click to expand...

So the officials have come out and said it was wrong decision.

Fans always moan the game has gone that it's becoming a non contact sport 

Yet people still holding onto fact they think it's the correct call?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			So the officials have come out and said it was wrong decision.

Fans always moan the game has gone that it's becoming a non contact sport 

Yet people still holding onto fact they think it's the correct call?
		
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At least the officials will sometimes come out and say they got it wrong. Fans never do though. Many will allow their bias to get in the way, convince themselves that a call was right or wrong, and never allow themselves to change their mind.

Bowen never fouled Mendy. Mendy came out to make the save, as Bowen was running full pelt towards him. There was minor contact between the players, which would really be expected as they fly towards each other towards the ball. Bowen never kicked out at Mendy, and he by and large did hurdle over him. However, some have convinced themselves that, in the millisecond this all.happened, Bowen actively decided to leave a foot in. That he could have somehow made a better decision to.fully leap over Mendy. All to defend the decision of a free kick being given. A decision even referees have now come out and said was wrong.

Of course, for those who said it should have been a free kick, I suspect have bias towards Chelsea and/or against West Ham (or just like an argument). I'd fully expect them to argue 100% the opposite if the decision went against their own club. If Sterling had made contact with Fabianski in exactly the same way, you can bet the same people would be screaming it wasn't a foul in a million years.


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## Jimaroid (Sep 6, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Throughout the game players were going down like they'd been shot, despite being built like brick houses.  Wrestling; sly digs; feigning injury; life threatening cramp; you name it, it went on.  And one referee & two assistants trying to sort it all out in an atmosphere of fans and players baying in their ears.

So is it the officials and VAR to blame; or the players, and their coaches?  I've watched a fair bit of professional youth football and it doesn't seem to be there, and the referees seem to do a better job, despite being less experienced.  But it changes at full professional level.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, who’d be a referee, you’d have to be mad. Fact is all people make mistakes and I do think players are putting too much pressure on them with fakery and shenanigans. I freely admit I enjoy that sometimes but think it’s time we saw some laws in place to improve sportsmanslike and honourable behaviour on the pitch. Play the ball, not the referee.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 6, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			And herein lies the biggest problem.  For as much as we berate referees about what they get wrong, and rightly so in certain circumstances, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to think that when they are trying to sort out 22 conmen they actually do bloody well to get as much right as they do.

*In respect of the game I was at, there were complaints that the keeper stayed down unnecessarily to try & buy the free kick.  If he did, he was only afforded that opportunity because the incoming forward trailed a leg into him to try & buy the penalty (he turns round & starts to appeal until he realises they have the ball).  Hurdle the keeper (and he could have done) and you get your point. *

Throughout the game players were going down like they'd been shot, despite being built like brick houses.  Wrestling; sly digs; feigning injury; life threatening cramp; you name it, it went on.  And one referee & two assistants trying to sort it all out in an atmosphere of fans and players baying in their ears.

So is it the officials and VAR to blame; or the players, and their coaches?  I've watched a fair bit of professional youth football and it doesn't seem to be there, and the referees seem to do a better job, despite being less experienced.  But it changes at full professional level.

As the old song says, when you point your finger, there's three more fingers pointing back at you; is it time players and coaches looked in the mirror and took some responsibility for this mess?  *And do the pundits with their "he was entitled to go down" bull also bear some responsibility?*

Click to expand...

I thought Mendy’s response was hilarious after the decision was overturned, he rose and sprinted to berate the ref 😂😂

It shows how subjective most decisions actually are. I thought Bowen left a trailing leg in there but the ref had a perfect view of it and let it play.

I think when refs look at the monitor, they are looking at incidents in Slow Motion which all look worse than the actual incident. It needs to be played in real time aswell as Slo-mo.

Re the pundits, I have said exactly the same for years, it was started by Andy Gray and sky. They’ve got a lot to answer for.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 6, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			I agree, who’d be a referee, you’d have to be mad. Fact is all people make mistakes and I do think players are putting too much pressure on them with fakery and shenanigans. I freely admit I enjoy that sometimes but think it’s time we saw some laws in place to improve sportsmanslike and honourable behaviour on the pitch. Play the ball, not the referee.
		
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Problem with introducing more laws of the game is they fail to enforce some of them now, what chance have we got of them enforcing more😁😁

I’d like to see common sense introduced into referees.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Problem with introducing more laws of the game is they fail to enforce some of them now, what chance have we got of them enforcing more😁😁

I’d like to see common sense introduced into referees.
		
Click to expand...

This all day long. How long does it take to take a goal kick. As someone mentioned. Keeper was booked in the last minute for time wasting when he has done it all game. It antagonises the crowd even more. Warn him the first time after the first time and book him the second time. Players are part of the problem and it falls to the ref to endorse the rules.


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## Piece (Sep 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			At least the officials will sometimes come out and say they got it wrong. Fans never do though. Many will allow their bias to get in the way, convince themselves that a call was right or wrong, and never allow themselves to change their mind.

Bowen never fouled Mendy. Mendy came out to make the save, as Bowen was running full pelt towards him. There was minor contact between the players, which would really be expected as they fly towards each other towards the ball. Bowen never kicked out at Mendy, and he by and large did hurdle over him. However, some have convinced themselves that, in the millisecond this all.happened, Bowen actively decided to leave a foot in. That he could have somehow made a better decision to.fully leap over Mendy. All to defend the decision of a free kick being given. A decision even referees have now come out and said was wrong.

Of course, for those who said it should have been a free kick, I suspect have bias towards Chelsea and/or against West Ham (or just like an argument). I'd fully expect them to argue 100% the opposite if the decision went against their own club. If Sterling had made contact with Fabianski in exactly the same way, you can bet the same people would be screaming it wasn't a foul in a million years.
		
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I have no skin in the game for that incident. Not in the slightest. I haven't changed my mind that Bowen left a foot in to get pen (Vardy style). Most will say foul, some say no foul. Its subjective, an interpretation of the current law, therefore it can't be 'wrong'.


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## Jimaroid (Sep 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Problem with introducing more laws of the game is they fail to enforce some of them now, what chance have we got of them enforcing more😁😁

I’d like to see common sense introduced into referees.
		
Click to expand...

Good point well made. Seriously though, what’s happened to the spirit of playing with integrity? Has it ever really been there? I don’t know any more but somewhere it’s not the game I remember. Players used to kick all hell out of each and stay on their feet. I get really wound up by the “entitled to go down” and “won the foul” attitude. 

Nothing will change, that’s what frustrates me.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 6, 2022)

Piece said:



			I have no skin in the game for that incident. Not in the slightest. I haven't changed my mind that Bowen left a foot in to get pen (Vardy style). Most will say foul, some say no foul. Its subjective, an interpretation of the current law, therefore it can't be 'wrong'.
		
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The decision for VAR to intervene was wrong though. VAR should not be getting involved if about 5% of the population think Bowen left a foot in, and therefore MIGHT be a free kick. 

And, as I said, many who think the free kick should he given would think the exact opposite if their team had a goal cancelled out for same thing.


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## Dando (Sep 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The decision for VAR to intervene was wrong though. VAR should not be getting involved if about 5% of the population think Bowen left a foot in, and therefore MIGHT be a free kick.

And, as I said, many who think the free kick should he given would think the exact opposite if their team had a goal cancelled out for same thing.
		
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if it was at the other end, toys would’ve been thrown from the pram


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## Piece (Sep 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The decision for VAR to intervene was wrong though. VAR should not be getting involved if about 5% of the population think Bowen left a foot in, and therefore MIGHT be a free kick.

And, as I said, many who think the free kick should he given would think the exact opposite if their team had a goal cancelled out for same thing.
		
Click to expand...

I don't follow why VAR intervening is 'wrong' though? Replays shown give the VAR time to assess (as a goal was scored) and the VAR believes, in his opinion, there was a foul. The VAR and the on-field ref then discuss (privately, unfortunately) over the pitch monitor and 'agree' a foul was committed. I can't see how that is wrong or for VAR to intervene as wrong? Just because most think it wasn't a foul, can't make it wrong or right. 

Being slightly obtuse, if that goal is allowed to stand in the future via the PMGOL "educating officials", it indirectly gives licence for players to leave a foot in on the goalkeeper.


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## Neilds (Sep 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This all day long. How long does it take to take a goal kick. As someone mentioned. Keeper was booked in the last minute for time wasting when he has done it all game. It antagonises the crowd even more. Warn him the first time after the first time and book him the second time. Players are part of the problem and it falls to the ref to endorse the rules.
		
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I have often said that referees should start 'enforcing' the rules from the start.  None of the "It's early in the game so that foul isn't a yellow card" - if it is a bookable offence then show a card. Also, clamp down on foul and abusive language and then when games are called off after 20 minutes as one side has too few players (less than 7?), award the game to the other side.  Things will soon change as players and managers get the message


Unless they really are as stupid as we often think they are


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## Swango1980 (Sep 6, 2022)

Piece said:



			I don't follow why VAR intervening is 'wrong' though? Replays shown give the VAR time to assess (as a goal was scored) and the VAR believes, in his opinion, there was a foul. The VAR and the on-field ref then discuss (privately, unfortunately) over the pitch monitor and 'agree' a foul was committed. I can't see how that is wrong or for VAR to intervene as wrong? Just because most think it wasn't a foul, can't make it wrong or right.

Being slightly obtuse, if that goal is allowed to stand in the future via the PMGOL "educating officials", it indirectly gives licence for players to leave a foot in on the goalkeeper. 

Click to expand...

The officials, I believe, have already come out and said it was wrong though. Have they not?

If you still think it is correct, then VAR MUST intervene every single time any part of a players body touches part of an opponents body. Just for the sake that, there may be a small chance the player could have acted differently so that zero contact was made. We have been repeatedly told that VAR only should intervene when there has been an obvious mistake. So, when you say "just because most think it wasn't a foul" seems like the most definitive answer as to exactly why VAR should never intervene in this specific case. If most think it wasn't a foul, how could you argue it was an obvious foul and therefore an obvious mistake!?

As I said before, if you had at least 2 VAR referees, then at least you'd iron out the issue of an obvious mistake. If a single VAR referee is in the 5% of people who thinks a mistake was made, then maybe to them it is 100% a mistake but to 95% of people it was 100% the right call. If you had a couple in the VAR studio, then VAR may have a chance of working better as intended, as there is a better chance that a colleague would argue against a mistake being made, thus both having to agree there was nothing obvious. However, while there is only a single VAR guy in the studio, then these sorts of problems will always arise, as there will always come a time when the VAR ref is in the extreme minority.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 6, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Good point well made. Seriously though, what’s happened to the spirit of playing with integrity? Has it ever really been there? I don’t know any more but somewhere it’s not the game I remember. Players used to kick all hell out of each and stay on their feet. I get really wound up by the “entitled to go down” and “won the foul” attitude.

Nothing will change, that’s what frustrates me.
		
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The integrity went as soon as we introduced european/south american players into English football. 

You've only got to look at early CL football when English teams struggled to get past the knockouts. 

Now football for most is win at all costs and if you cant beat them, join them.

It really does baffle me when a unit like Joelinton* gets a touch off  the smallest fella on the pitch and rolls around like he's been shot. 

The reason players do such things as diving and making a meal of tackles is because unless they dont go down they dont get the foul. That is wrong and it can only changed by the officials.

*i used Joelinton as a big unit example.


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## RichA (Sep 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The officials, I believe, have already come out and said it was wrong though. Have they not?

If you still think it is correct, then VAR MUST intervene every single time any part of a players body touches part of an opponents body. Just for the sake that, there may be a small chance the player could have acted differently so that zero contact was made. We have been repeatedly told that VAR only should intervene when there has been an obvious mistake. So, when you say "just because most think it wasn't a foul" seems like the most definitive answer as to exactly why VAR should never intervene in this specific case. If most think it wasn't a foul, how could you argue it was an obvious foul and therefore an obvious mistake!?

As I said before, if you had at least 2 VAR referees, then at least you'd iron out the issue of an obvious mistake. If a single VAR referee is in the 5% of people who thinks a mistake was made, then maybe to them it is 100% a mistake but to 95% of people it was 100% the right call. If you had a couple in the VAR studio, then VAR may have a chance of working better as intended, as there is a better chance that a colleague would argue against a mistake being made, thus both having to agree there was nothing obvious. However, while there is only a single VAR guy in the studio, then these sorts of problems will always arise, as there will always come a time when the VAR ref is in the extreme minority.
		
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Where have you got this 95% mandate from? More than 5% of people in this conversation without bias towards the teams involved have said they don't think the Chelsea / West Ham VAR decision was wrong.

As someone else has pointed out, it's highly unlikely that the officials are corrupt, whereas it is highly likely that the players are cheating. The focus is on the wrong problem.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 6, 2022)

RichA said:



			Where have you got this 95% mandate from? More than 5% of people in this conversation without bias towards the teams involved have said they don't think the Chelsea / West Ham VAR decision was wrong.

*As someone else has pointed out, it's highly unlikely that the officials are corrupt, whereas it is highly likely that the players are cheating. The focus is on the wrong problem*.
		
Click to expand...

Very accurate. That said, when there's a certain ref  in charge at your game, you know that you're not going to be on the end of the 50/50 decisions. I can safely say that from speaking to fans of other teams we all have one.


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## Badger (Sep 6, 2022)

my two'penneth for what it's worth, when VAR was introduced we were told that it was to intervene when a "clear and obvious error" had been made and think most of us were on board with that concept.

whatever your view on any of the weekend's incidents think it's fair to say that none of them fit the criteria of "clear and obvious errors", they were subjective, and so the question should be why is VAR getting involved ?

on a more general point it's just sucking the joy out of the game.  the greatest moments of being a football fan are those seconds after your team scores a goal when you find yourself hugging strangers or jumping around the living room, they are what I remember anyway, I was lucky enough to be at Anfield in 89, if that happened today we'd all be standing there sweating while they made a VAR check !


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## Swango1980 (Sep 6, 2022)

RichA said:



			Where have you got this 95% mandate from? More than 5% of people in this conversation without bias towards the teams involved have said they don't think the Chelsea / West Ham VAR decision was wrong.

As someone else has pointed out, it's highly unlikely that the officials are corrupt, whereas it is highly likely that the players are cheating. The focus is on the wrong problem.
		
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I hope you didn't think I had evaluated all comments and attributed a % split? I was clearly only using the % as a very approximate demonstration. If you simply take comments from this thread, it is a value that can't be trusted. I'd expect there be more likelihood for those that agree with an unpopular decision to be more likely to come on a forum to defend it. Whereas, if people tend to agree with the general thought it was the wrong decision, then they are less likely to feel the need to state there case on a forum. It has all been said.

Outside the forum, I've not come across anyone that is anywhere close to agreeing it was a foul by Bowen. From what I have seen, the every pundit I've heard talk about it do not understand why it was given. Even those that say there might be a reason to think Bowen could have left a foot lower than he could have done, still cannot say they are 100% sure on that. And, as such, still cannot come to the conclusion it was an obvious error by the ref.

PS. I don't think anyone is suggesting the officials are corrupt (well, I'm sure there are some out there that spread these conspiracy theories, just not heard it mentioned in here). Simply that the officials made a mistake. And, yes, the players, managers AND fans make it very much harder for the referees on the pitch. Players fake injuries and dive, managers shout and scream at refs, and fans (in particular home fans) shout anytime there is even a hint of an infringement against their team (how often do you hear fans shout handball when it hits an opponent in the box, then boo when nothing is given, only to see in the replay the ball was nowhere near the guys hand?). However, VAR is another tool that should get around this issue in many respects.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 6, 2022)

Badger said:



			my two'penneth for what it's worth, when VAR was introduced we were told that it was to intervene when a "clear and obvious error" had been made and think most of us were on board with that concept.

whatever your view on any of the weekend's incidents think it's fair to say that none of them fit the criteria of "clear and obvious errors", they were subjective, and so the question should be why is VAR getting involved ?

*on a more general point it's just sucking the joy out of the game.*  the greatest moments of being a football fan are those seconds after your team scores a goal when you find yourself hugging strangers or jumping around the living room, they are what I remember anyway, I was lucky enough to be at Anfield in 89, if that happened today we'd all be standing there sweating while they made a VAR check !
		
Click to expand...

I still agree with this, but I just think we are having to get used to that, as it is not going to change now.

Anytime my team score, I've got used to not getting overly excited, as there is every chance it might still be ruled out. Whether it might be a close offside call, or a subjective decision against your team. Once the goal is finally given, it is more a sense or relief than ecstatic joy. Sure, there will be decisions that go in favour of your team, so there are advantages to VAR. But, in general, it just seems to have reduced the levels of ecstatic joy to an extent, and increased the feelings of relief. I'm not sure if that is a good thing for football, as I'd have thought anything that can generate more extreme levels of emotion, at either end of the spectrum, is better than the sport than one that dampens this?

One of the benefits to VAR is that is was supposed to work out better for "smaller" clubs, as it was felt on field referees could be easily lead by the larger crowd of the "bigger" club, especially in home games. It would be interesting to see if there is any evidence that this is the case. One could argue it might have gone the other way. After all, the VAR referee will subconsciously know that any decision they make for / against a big club will be much more scrutinised than a smaller club. The VVD incident could be a prime example. It was on the edge of being a red, and I think he was lucky. However, I agree there are arguments it was not quite a red card, and simply one of those that if it was given, most could also see why that was the case. For a VAR ref, if they were on the edge of thinking it was a red, it might be easier to simply leave it, knowing the controversy it would cause, especially amongst the highly supported Liverpool fans (nothing against Liverpool, I'd say the same about Man Utd, City, Chelsea, etc). Whereas, if Anderson of Crystal Palace made that challenge, would the same VAR ref be pushed to the other edge of asking the onfield ref to review it?


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## Piece (Sep 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The officials, I believe, have already come out and said it was wrong though. Have they not?
		
Click to expand...

It would help us all if they educated us in why the decision to disallow was made and under what law interpretation. Until then, "wrong" has no real meaning or value. I will admit that having lacking of information or explanation from the refs does not help their cause - I'm all for some type of rugby style comms live time.



Swango1980 said:



			If you still think it is correct, then VAR MUST intervene every single time any part of a players body touches part of an opponents body. Just for the sake that, there may be a small chance the player could have acted differently so that zero contact was made. We have been repeatedly told that VAR only should intervene when there has been an obvious mistake. So, when you say "just because most think it wasn't a foul" seems like the most definitive answer as to exactly why VAR should never intervene in this specific case. If most think it wasn't a foul, how could you argue it was an obvious foul and therefore an obvious mistake!?
		
Click to expand...

You've misunderstood. VAR did its job in that it has to check any potential infringements as a goal was scored. The VAR felt a foul was committed and two refs 'agreed' to strike out the goal. Also note it is not just an "obvious mistake" that VAR gets involved - it's also for any decision review ("missed incidents") that the VAR feels the on-field ref needs to see/review in what the PL define as a "match affecting" situation.



Swango1980 said:



			As I said before, if you had at least 2 VAR referees, then at least you'd iron out the issue of an obvious mistake. If a single VAR referee is in the 5% of people who thinks a mistake was made, then maybe to them it is 100% a mistake but to 95% of people it was 100% the right call. If you had a couple in the VAR studio, then VAR may have a chance of working better as intended, as there is a better chance that a colleague would argue against a mistake being made, thus both having to agree there was nothing obvious. However, while there is only a single VAR guy in the studio, then these sorts of problems will always arise, as there will always come a time when the VAR ref is in the extreme minority.
		
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What if both VAR refs disagree? The more people involved, the worse it will become, in my opinion. We are in realms of diminishing returns to get VAR to 100% - it won't happen. However, I do believe there is still small room for improvement, so I'm open to any suggestion that gets us there.


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## Springveldt (Sep 6, 2022)

Badger said:



			my two'penneth for what it's worth, when VAR was introduced we were told that it was to intervene when a "clear and obvious error" had been made and think most of us were on board with that concept.

whatever your view on any of the weekend's incidents think it's fair to say that none of them fit the criteria of "clear and obvious errors", they were subjective, and so the question should be why is VAR getting involved ?

on a more general point it's just sucking the joy out of the game.  the greatest moments of being a football fan are those seconds after your team scores a goal when you find yourself hugging strangers or jumping around the living room, they are what I remember anyway, I was lucky enough to be at Anfield in 89, if that happened today we'd all be standing there sweating while they made a VAR check !
		
Click to expand...

"Clear and obvious error" and now they are drawing lines all over the place saying "he's offside, look, his left pinkie is in front of the defender". Complete nonsense.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 6, 2022)

Piece said:



			What if both VAR refs disagree? The more people involved, the worse it will become, in my opinion. We are in realms of diminishing returns to get VAR to 100% - it won't happen. However, I do believe there is still small room for improvement, so I'm open to any suggestion that gets us there.
		
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That was exactly my point. If 2 VAR referees disagree, then pretty much by definition the issue is not obvious. So, in most cases that would rule out controversial decisions where one ref might happen to be in the extreme minority. It is not going to make VAR perfect, but it should iron out the issues. If 2 VAR referees have a different opinion, that should be enough to stick with the onfield referees decision. However, if both VAR referees agree that the ref might have made a mistake (or more likely missed something from his angle), then they can intervene.

The problem with just the one VAR ref is that, if they are in the minority (even though that may only be in a small number of overall decisions they need to make), then those will be the decisions that cause huge controversy. It is flawed to assume that this can be solved by having the onfield referee make the final decision, once he is asked to review. The very fact he has been asked to review is that one of his peers thinks a different decision should / could have been made. That peer has looked at more angles of the incident. So, if the onfield ref still sticks with his original decision, with the eyes of the world on him, he will be lambasted by fans that the decision went against. Especially now that it appears one of his colleagues disagreed with him. So, it is going to make the onfield refs life much easier to agree with VAR, rather than risking going against it. If he goes against VAR, it is also suggesting one of his colleagues is wrong, despite having more "evidence" to review. Big call that.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 6, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I have often said that referees should start 'enforcing' the rules from the start.  None of the "It's early in the game so that foul isn't a yellow card" - if it is a bookable offence then show a card. Also, clamp down on foul and abusive language and then when games are called off after 20 minutes as one side has too few players (less than 7?), award the game to the other side.  Things will soon change as players and managers get the message


Unless they really are as stupid as we often think they are 

Click to expand...

That’s never going to happen in a million years.
Far to sensible!


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## Jimaroid (Sep 6, 2022)

So here we are then, the future. Watch the video in the second tweet, video quality is not the best but shows what we can expect.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567228202350788609


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## Orikoru (Sep 6, 2022)

Ian Darke and Robbie Savage, utterly painful and cringeworthy to listen to. Almost as bad as City wearing a knock-off West Ham away kit for the game.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Ian Darke and Robbie Savage, utterly painful and cringeworthy to listen to. *Almost as bad as City wearing a knock-off West Ham away kit for the game.* 

Click to expand...


*Club badge and colours*






Manchester City's stadium and shirt have been sponsored by Etihad Airwayssince 2009.





Wikimedia Commons has media related to Manchester City F.C. kits.
Manchester City's home colours are sky blue and white. Traditional away kitcolours have been either maroon or (from the 1960s) red and black;
😉👍


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## Orikoru (Sep 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



*Club badge and colours*






Manchester City's stadium and shirt have been sponsored by Etihad Airwayssince 2009.





Wikimedia Commons has media related to Manchester City F.C. kits.
Manchester City's home colours are sky blue and white. Traditional away kitcolours have been either maroon or (from the 1960s) red and black;
😉👍
		
Click to expand...

It looked bloody horrible.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It looked bloody horrible.
		
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compared to some of the kits we have had in the last 10 years it’s a classic 😁 the under 21’s wore it tonight for the first team and a lot of the City fans like the old retro look.


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## JSims (Sep 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The officials, I believe, have already come out and said it was wrong though. Have they not?

If you still think it is correct, then VAR MUST intervene every single time any part of a players body touches part of an opponents body. Just for the sake that, there may be a small chance the player could have acted differently so that zero contact was made. We have been repeatedly told that VAR only should intervene when there has been an obvious mistake. So, when you say "just because most think it wasn't a foul" seems like the most definitive answer as to exactly why VAR should never intervene in this specific case. If most think it wasn't a foul, how could you argue it was an obvious foul and therefore an obvious mistake!?

*As I said before, if you had at least 2 VAR referees, then at least you'd iron out the issue of an obvious mistake.* If a single VAR referee is in the 5% of people who thinks a mistake was made, then maybe to them it is 100% a mistake but to 95% of people it was 100% the right call. If you had a couple in the VAR studio, then VAR may have a chance of working better as intended, as there is a better chance that a colleague would argue against a mistake being made, thus both having to agree there was nothing obvious. However, while there is only a single VAR guy in the studio, then these sorts of problems will always arise, as there will always come a time when the VAR ref is in the extreme minority.
		
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By the time the VAR suggests that the on-field Ref checks the monitor, there ARE 2 Referees. Having 2 VAR Refs wouldn't actually eliminate the 'obvious mistake' mistake either, as such cases are unlikely to be in the 5% v 95% category you state. 
What I believe is for the VAR Ref to apply it's own rules that a review is only suggested when a clear mistake is determined by VAR, or, perhaps, where something that would change the decision may have been missed is discussed and the OFR wants a 2nd look.  OFRs should have the courage to stick to their original decision, as also happened for the 1st time in EFL last weekend.


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## Slime (Sep 6, 2022)

Having Erling Haaland in your side is just plain cheating .......................... he's that good.
Best player in the world and incoming Ballon d'Or winner.
Only an injury can stop him.
He's scary good.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 6, 2022)

JSims said:



			By the time the VAR suggests that the on-field Ref checks the monitor, there ARE 2 Referees. Having 2 VAR Refs wouldn't actually eliminate the 'obvious mistake' mistake either, as such cases are unlikely to be in the 5% v 95% category you state. 
What I believe is for the VAR Ref to apply it's own rules that a review is only suggested when a clear mistake is determined by VAR, or, perhaps, where something that would change the decision may have been missed is discussed and the OFR wants a 2nd look.  OFRs should have the courage to stick to their original decision, as also happened for the 1st time in EFL last weekend.
		
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I also made the point that you don't really have 2 refs, at the moment, giving their independent decision. Because, once the OFR is asked to review something, he is under immense pressure as the eyes of the world, players and managers are on him. It is expected he should change his mind, as the VAR is really only meant to intervene when an obvious mistake had been made. So, it is a huge call for the OFR to ignore VAR once he is asked to review. However, 2 VARs means they can quickly discuss a call off camera, so to speak, and thus any doubt can be ironed out without interrupting the game. The game would only be interrupted if both VAR agreed something had been missed.

In terms of your second paragraph, that IS how VAR is currently meant to work, is it not? And that clearly doesn't resolve the issues we have seen.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			Having Erling Haaland in your side is just plain cheating .......................... he's that good.
Best player in the world and incoming Ballon d'Or winner.
Only an injury can stop him.
He's scary good.
		
Click to expand...

It appears he has improved them by about 20%, which is scary given how good they were. Whereas their closest challenger, Liverpool, have probably gone backwards about 10% after losing Mane. Nunez has given them nothing yet, but once he does get going, it'll be difficult to see him replacing what was lost in Mane, let alone improve them. 

Everyone else were miles away anyway. Funny how things can change so quickly though. After Brentford, some so called experts were questioning ten Hag, and that Utd should have brought in a big manager like Conte when they had the chance, to compete with the big 3 managers at City, Liverpool and Chelsea. 4 games later, and ten Hag doesn't look so bad, whilst some are questioning Tuchel. 

So, who knows where we'll be this time next month. However, I reckon Haaland may have added at least another 10 goals to his tally by then.


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## JSims (Sep 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I also made the point that you don't really have 2 refs, at the moment, giving their independent decision. Because, once the OFR is asked to review something, he is under immense pressure as the eyes of the world, players and managers are on him. It is expected he should change his mind, as the VAR is really only meant to intervene when an obvious mistake had been made. So, it is a huge call for the OFR to ignore VAR once he is asked to review. However, 2 VARs means they can quickly discuss a call off camera, so to speak, and thus any doubt can be ironed out without interrupting the game. The game would only be interrupted if both VAR agreed something had been missed.

In terms of your second paragraph, that IS how VAR is currently meant to work, is it not? And that clearly doesn't resolve the issues we have seen.
		
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There's a period between the initiation of VAR and the suggestion to review. That's the point where I'm saying there are 2 refs involved - which is before the review is suggested - that a discussion could be had. In the case of the West Ham one, which I watched, the VAR presumably deemed that the Keeper had been fouled, whereas the OFR either deemed there had been no foul or had missed it. The discussion should have been along he lines of whether the OFR had seen the contact and disregarded it. At that point there were 2 Refs discussing an incident. If the OFR wanted a 2nd look, then the monitor was available. There should be no pressure - apart perhaps from a suggestion from the VAR that a 2nd look should be had - to change on field decision.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

JSims said:



			There's a period between the initiation of VAR and the suggestion to review. That's the point where I'm saying there are 2 refs involved - which is before the review is suggested - that a discussion could be had. In the case of the West Ham one, which I watched, the VAR presumably deemed that the Keeper had been fouled, whereas the OFR either deemed there had been no foul or had missed it. The discussion should have been along he lines of whether the OFR had seen the contact and disregarded it. At that point there were 2 Refs discussing an incident. If the OFR wanted a 2nd look, then the monitor was available. There should be no pressure - apart perhaps from a suggestion from the VAR that a 2nd look should be had - to change on field decision.
		
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Yes, but the problem is, one of those 2 people are handicapped. The OFR has only seen the incident from where he was standing, in real time. He has not had the benefit of looking at multiple angles and replays. So, if VAR is suggesting something different to the original decision, the OFR can never be in a position to decide properly for himself until he sees what VAR is seeing. 

In West Ham game, the OFR would have seen what most of us had seen. Mendy making a save, but no foul on Mendy, even if slight contact was made. However, VAR might have decided that Bowen had kicked out intentionally, thus a foul. The OFR would have to realise that the VAR is in a better position to make an assessment, and that he, the OFR, might have missed something in that instant. So, he needs to review it. However, once he does, the expectation and pressure is to reverse that decision.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It appears he has improved them by about 20%, which is scary given how good they were. Whereas their closest challenger, Liverpool, have probably gone backwards about 10% after losing Mane. Nunez has given them nothing yet, but once he does get going, it'll be difficult to see him replacing what was lost in Mane, let alone improve them.

Everyone else were miles away anyway. Funny how things can change so quickly though. After Brentford, some so called experts were questioning ten Hag, and that Utd should have brought in a big manager like Conte when they had the chance, to compete with the big 3 managers at City, Liverpool and Chelsea. 4 games later, and ten Hag doesn't look so bad, whilst some are questioning Tuchel.

So, who knows where we'll be this time next month. However, I reckon Haaland may have added at least another 10 goals to his tally by then.
		
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Listening to some City fans last night and they were suggesting that Pep once more could try a 5-3-2 formation with Haaland and Alvarez up front. I get where they are Coming from but your three in midfield will include Rodri, so after that who do you play, Foden, KDB, Gundoghan, Grealish, Silva, Mahrez. Seems a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. 
I thought last nights performance against a poor Sevilla side was as good as I have seen. Really does go to show how Good Villas performance was at the weekend.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			Having Erling Haaland in your side is just plain cheating .......................... he's that good.
Best player in the world and incoming Ballon d'Or winner.
Only an injury can stop him.
He's scary good.
		
Click to expand...

Plus he gets a rest during the WC 😬


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Listening to some City fans last night and they were suggesting that Pep once more could try a 5-3-2 formation with Haaland and Alvarez up front. I get where they are Coming from but your three in midfield will include Rodri, so after that who do you play, Foden, KDB, Gundoghan, Grealish, Silva, Mahrez. Seems a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. 
I thought last nights performance against a poor Sevilla side was as good as I have seen. Really does go to show how Good Villas performance was at the weekend.
		
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Strange. I don't think Haaland needs to much help up front. Just give him a strong midfield that can string passes together, he hints out space to score. And he is a monster, can't see any defender bullying him


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## Piece (Sep 7, 2022)

Tuchel on his way....

Auba needs to cash-in on his 14 day cooling off period!


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

New owners, same old Chelsea.......................


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567439761027072001
madness


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 7, 2022)

hahaha! bonkers.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 7, 2022)

I'll say one thing for us, we're never dull...


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It appears he has improved them by about 20%, which is scary given how good they were. Whereas their closest challenger, Liverpool, have probably gone backwards about 10% after losing Mane. Nunez has given them nothing yet, but once he does get going, it'll be difficult to see him replacing what was lost in Mane, let alone improve them.

Everyone else were miles away anyway. Funny how things can change so quickly though. After Brentford, some so called experts were questioning ten Hag, and that Utd should have brought in a big manager like Conte when they had the chance, to compete with the big 3 managers at City, Liverpool and Chelsea. 4 games later, and ten Hag doesn't look so bad, *whilst some are questioning Tuchel.*

So, who knows where we'll be this time next month. However, I reckon Haaland may have added at least another 10 goals to his tally by then.
		
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Wow, no sooner do I say this, Tuchel is sacked. I know Chelsea have not had a good start and he was under pressure, but that seems pretty incredible. I watched the Chelsea game last night. Yes, they lost. However, it was still away from home and on another day they should really have scored one or 2 goals. It just seemed like one of those nights where it doesn't go your way. Surely the club needed to give him a chance, especially with new signings coming in and trying to settle down.


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 7, 2022)

Let him spend £300m in the transfer window and sack him 6 days after it closes....Football is broken.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

Who is favourite to take over?


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who is favourite to take over?
		
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Beryl the tea lady.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who is favourite to take over?
		
Click to expand...

Poch?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2022)

Pochettino 🤷‍♂️


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## GB72 (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who is favourite to take over?
		
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They can take Rodgers off our hands if they want. Save a £10 million pound payout


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## Orikoru (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who is favourite to take over?
		
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Just give it John Terry until the end of the season.


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## Beezerk (Sep 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Just give it John Terry until the end of the season.
		
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He’s got his suit on already 😂
#fullkitwinker


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## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

To be honest it don’t surprise me. He was like Klopp on steroids re excuses.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

What about Potter?


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## Piece (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who is favourite to take over?
		
Click to expand...

Hodgson
Ranieri
Bruce
Sam A
Emma H
Sarina W
Roy the Programme Seller


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## GreiginFife (Sep 7, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Tuchel’s new local…
View attachment 44074

Click to expand...

You heard it here first pop-pickers… 😂


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## venger (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who is favourite to take over?
		
Click to expand...

Apparently they've asked Brighton for permission to speak with Graham Potter


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## Hogieefc (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who is favourite to take over?
		
Click to expand...

Lampard 🤣🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 7, 2022)

For all those predicting Frankie was first to get the boot this season.................. Rodgers must be next in line, Frank is on easy street, way down the list now


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## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2022)

I was listening to Talksport on the way to work this morning and they were talking about Tuchel and his future. I was shaking my head in disbelief listening to them. 

It seems absolutely crazy to spend the money they have with the managers backing  to then go and sack that manager. Then you've got the busiest period of football coming up with very little coaching time for a new manager to go in there and make a difference.

Utter madness.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I was listening to Talksport on the way to work this morning and they were talking about Tuchel and his future. I was shaking my head in disbelief listening to them.

It seems absolutely crazy to spend the money they have with the managers backing  to then go and sack that manager. Then you've got the busiest period of football coming up with very little coaching time for a new manager to go in there and make a difference.

Utter madness.
		
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They have been walking that line for years now though. It's madness, wasteful etc but on the whole it has worked for them. I wouldn't want it but each to their own.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I was listening to Talksport on the way to work this morning and they were talking about Tuchel and his future. I was shaking my head in disbelief listening to them.

It seems absolutely crazy to spend the money they have with the managers backing  to then go and sack that manager. Then you've got the busiest period of football coming up with very little coaching time for a new manager to go in there and make a difference.

Utter madness.
		
Click to expand...

I was looking forward to listening to some of the Talksport youtube 10 minute clips later on. 

I can only imagine Chelsea have firmly agreed who the replacement will be, and that replacement is someone who is expected to be very special. Otherwise, it seems ridiculous. Any team can go through dodgy spells, especially at the beginning of a season when players may be at varying level of fitness, match sharpness and new players are coming in. It is crazy that a manager can be generally considered to be one of the best managers in the game, and then a handful of games later get the sack. Maybe there are non-footballing reasons, or they felt Conte gave him the knockout blow by winning the battle of the handshake.

Would be interested to know how Chelsea fans feel, as they'll be a lot more clued in with the club and what they think of Tuchel


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## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They have been walking that line for years now though. It's madness, wasteful etc but on the whole it has worked for them. I wouldn't want it but each to their own.
		
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Granted it has been relatively successful in recent years but  the fixture calendar is so congested this year, any manager who comes in will need a lot of good luck. 

Simeone would be a perfect match.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I was looking forward to listening to some of the Talksport youtube 10 minute clips later on.

I can only imagine Chelsea have firmly agreed who the replacement will be, and that replacement is someone who is expected to be very special. Otherwise, it seems ridiculous. Any team can go through dodgy spells, especially at the beginning of a season when players may be at varying level of fitness, match sharpness and new players are coming in. It is crazy that a manager can be generally considered to be one of the best managers in the game, and then a handful of games later get the sack. *Maybe there are non-footballing reasons, or they felt Conte gave him the knockout blow by winning the battle of the handshake.*

Would be interested to know how Chelsea fans feel, as they'll be a lot more clued in with the club and what they think of Tuchel
		
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Tuchel caused that and ended up looking stupid.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2022)

Did Abramovich leave a little “How to Own Chelsea” guide for Boehley to follow 😂


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## Dando (Sep 7, 2022)




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## Yorkhacker (Sep 7, 2022)

Unless Todd Boehly is literally crapping money, I'm lost for words...


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Granted it has been relatively successful in recent years but  the fixture calendar is so congested this year, any manager who comes in will need a lot of good luck.

*Simeone would be a perfect match.*

Click to expand...

18 months at Chelsea, sacked obviously, and then on to Old Trafford to turn the screws there as well


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

Permission for Chelsea to talk to Potter it seems, I wonder how much Tony Bloom thinks he can have their pants down for this time..........


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Granted it has been relatively successful in recent years but  the fixture calendar is so congested this year, any manager who comes in will need a lot of good luck.

Simeone would be a perfect match.
		
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lol Stu, youre a bad man 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Permission for Chelsea to talk to Potter it seems, I wonder how much Tony Bloom thinks he can have their pants down for this time..........
		
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We've already paid for him in the fee for Cucurella.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol Stu, youre a bad man 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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He's a (Fraggered).


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			We've already paid for him in the fee for Cucurella.
		
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you wish lol, a few days after the window shut, Bloom will be eyeing another massive overpayment. At least hes moved on from us........


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			you wish lol, a few days after the window shut, Bloom will be eyeing another massive overpayment. At least hes moved on from us........
		
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According to Sky Sports, the figure is written into Potter's contract.

The biggest irony in this is sending Levi Colwill to Brighton on loan to work under Potter, only to try & drag him away. 

And how does Billy Gilmour feel?


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## Rlburnside (Sep 7, 2022)

That sacking has surprised even me, crazy way to run a club, not ideal for the new manager to come in and work with players not of his choosing.


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## BrianM (Sep 7, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			According to Sky Sports, the figure is written into Potter's contract.

The biggest irony in this is sending Levi Colwill to Brighton on loan to work under Potter, only to try & drag him away. 

And how does Billy Gilmour feel?
		
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You’ll probably get Billy Gilmour back on loan 😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

Potter would be a very good appointment. 👍


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Potter would be a very good appointment. 👍
		
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Probably, but probably far from ideal for any new manager.

If they were coming into a really prolonged bad side, where the manager had clearly lost the confidence of the players and the fans, then it is so much easier for the new manager. If results are still dodgy, they can just say they need time to build, bla bla.

However, if the new manager experiences a bad run of results, there are going to be a lot more people saying that the last manager should definitely not be sacked, and the new appointment was probably a downgrade


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## Dando (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Potter would be a very good appointment. 👍
		
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Harry Potter?


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## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

Dando said:



			Harry Potter?
		
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Think Potter could weave his magic 😁

 Costa has his work permit for Wolves 😳👍


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

If I was Potter I would not touch Chelsea with a barge pole.
They treat their managers like shit.
He’s better off where he is.
Unless he just wants the money.


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## BrianM (Sep 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			If I was Potter I would not touch Chelsea with a barge pole.
They treat their managers like shit.
He’s better off where he is.
Unless he just wants the money.
		
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Money will be a massive factor as well in his thought process.
Let’s be honest though, he has to take it, an opportunity to challenge on all fronts and a first in the Champions League.
I personally think he would be a good appointment.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Money will be a massive factor as well in his thought process.
Let’s be honest though, he has to take it, an opportunity to challenge on all fronts and a first in the Champions League.
I personally think he would be a good appointment.
		
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If he has ambition at the top table yes.
I am sure he will .


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Money will be a massive factor as well in his thought process.
Let’s be honest though, *he has to take it*, an opportunity to challenge on all fronts and a first in the Champions League.
I personally think he would be a good appointment.
		
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Cant say I agree, not like its his last chance, he has a good set up at Brighton and the approach is starting to reap rewards and hes plenty young enough. Why jump ship to a squad with a lot of problems thats going to take time to reshape to suit to his style and no chance to do so in the immediate future. Hes going to be on pretty much every big clubs short list in the UK going forward so not as if he isnt going to have other options in the next few years

Or he could take the money, get sacked in a year or two then decide where he wants to manage going forward


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

I was trying to think of a way to defend Chelsea's new owners. For example, they are a new regime and they wanted to start from a clean slate. They saw Tuchel as a manager employed under the old regime, and maybe they wanted to bring in a different type of manager, that they felt could work at the club for years to come, and really help develop the club, youth strategy and playing style.

But, then I see how much they spent over the summer, and struggle to agree with that defence of them. So I just get back to my initial reaction, what a strange thing to do.

Potter has done very well. If he could guarantee that he will be on the radar of every top club in the future, then I'd agree that he probably doesn't need to take up the Chelsea offer at this point. However, things change very quickly in football. What if Brighton hit a bad patch. Loss of form, injuries, etc. Within the space of a month or so, he could turn from being a manager that is highly regarded, to the forgotten man when linking managers to big clubs. Therefore, if Chelsea offer him a lucrative deal, he may be wise to cash in now, as the chance might never come again.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Cant say I agree, not like its his last chance, he has a good set up at Brighton and the approach is starting to reap rewards and hes plenty young enough. Why jump ship to a squad with a lot of problems thats going to take time to reshape to suit to his style and no chance to do so in the immediate future. Hes going to be on pretty much every big clubs short list in the UK going forward so not as if he isnt going to have other options in the next few years

Or he could take the money, get sacked in a year or two then decide where he wants to manage going forward 

Click to expand...

Yes that’s my thinking.
Why take a job that’s problematic atm.
Just bide his time and he will have a choice of clubs wanting him.
The way Chelsea treat their managers is shocking.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 7, 2022)

We're about to sign Diego Costa 😳


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			We're about to sign Diego Costa 😳
		
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I used to like Wolves


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## BrianM (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Cant say I agree, not like its his last chance, he has a good set up at Brighton and the approach is starting to reap rewards and hes plenty young enough. Why jump ship to a squad with a lot of problems thats going to take time to reshape to suit to his style and no chance to do so in the immediate future. Hes going to be on pretty much every big clubs short list in the UK going forward so not as if he isnt going to have other options in the next few years

Or he could take the money, get sacked in a year or two then decide where he wants to manage going forward 

Click to expand...

Time will tell I suppose, but I can’t see anything but taking the job.
With the utmost respect for Brighton, it’s a different level with Chelsea.


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## Yorkhacker (Sep 7, 2022)

I



clubchamp98 said:



			They treat their managers like shit.
		
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Totally disagree with that. Every manager that comes to Chelsea or any other club knows what they're getting into. They all have massive egos and they all want to prove they're up to the job and better than their predecessors. They get paid very, very handsomely and a massive payoff when they are sacked. Hardly being treated like shit


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Time will tell I suppose, but I can’t see anything but taking the job.
With the utmost respect for Brighton, it’s a different level with Chelsea.
		
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Not saying he wont take it (feels like a coin toss to me), am saying he doesnt have to as originally posted. Expect it will depend what assurances he is offered about January/summer spending and what input he will have whether he jumps now or later into a top job, he'll certainly never another chance if he turns it down today imho


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes that’s my thinking.
Why take a job that’s problematic atm.
Just bide his time and he will have a choice of clubs wanting him.
The way Chelsea treat their managers is shocking.
		
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It depends how much time he wants to bide (and whether he considers the fact no one might want him if Brighton suddenly go on a poor run).

What big clubs are we talking about? I'm not sure jobs at City or Liverpool will become available soon. When they do, it'll be a tough act to follow. Man Utd job won't be available soon either, nor Spurs unless Conte decides he wants to leave I guess. Arteta probably looks like he will have the Arsenal job for a while. So, there is no guarantee that there will be a job at one of the biggest clubs in England anytine soon. Could be years. And, when those jobs do come up,no guarantee Potter will be that clubs No1 target. 

Would he want to work abroad? Different cultures and languages? Maybe, but that brings it's own set of challenges. I'd also imagine Potter is significantly lower down on the radar for the big clubs of Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus, PSG, etc.

So, now I have given it more thought, it would he a huge risk for Potter to turn the Chelsea job down if it was offered to him. Certainly if he had any ambition to manage a club at the top and command a more lucrative salary anyway.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			If he has ambition at the top table yes.
I am sure he will .
		
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Its tough for Potter, historically Chelsea have been a managers graveyard. One could say the same with Utd since Fergie. If he does a good job with Chelsea it could open other doors on the continent and the England job in the future.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Its tough for Potter, historically Chelsea have been a managers graveyard. One could say the same with Utd since Fergie. If he does a good job with Chelsea it could open other doors on the continent and the England job in the future.
		
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He would be mad to leave Brighton for them. He is doing a fantastic job and will just become another manager at chelsea who don't seem to support their managers .. I mean touchel won 3 trophies was it? Was allowed to spend 230 million this summer but then a few bad results and bamn off he goes again. 

Thought he had done well and with the signings he made get them performing then up the table 

Alas just tossed on the discard pile with the others


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He would be mad to leave Brighton for them. He is doing a fantastic job and will just become another manager at chelsea who don't seem to support their managers .. I mean touchel won 3 trophies was it? Was allowed to spend 230 million this summer but then a few bad results and bamn off he goes again.

Thought he had done well and with the signings he made get them performing then up the table

Alas just tossed on the discard pile with the others
		
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Madness to sack tuchel and even more madness if potter ends up taking a poisoned Challis.
 There is no future in the Chelsea job as potter ball takes time to work ,the players don't fit his ideas for potter ball to work immediately.thus he would be sacked as a one hit wonder .


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He would be mad to leave Brighton for them. He is doing a fantastic job and will just become another manager at chelsea who don't seem to support their managers .. I mean touchel won 3 trophies was it? Was allowed to spend 230 million this summer but then a few bad results and bamn off he goes again. 

Thought he had done well and with the signings he made get them performing then up the table 

Alas just tossed on the discard pile with the others
		
Click to expand...

However, even if Chelsea ended up sacking him after a year or 2, he should still be in a great position to get other good job offers. I'm sure Tuchel will not struggle to find a club. 

I'm trying to think of a manager who had struggled for decent job offers after being at a big club. Ole springs to mind, but he was a pretty unique case in that he didn't really have great credentials going into the job to start with. Potter has a lot of admirers. Chelsea would help put him even more in the shop window, and I think he would have to have an absolute monumental disaster to not get decent offers, if Chelsea let him go


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## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He would be mad to leave Brighton for them. He is doing a fantastic job and will just become another manager at chelsea who don't seem to support their managers .. I mean touchel won 3 trophies was it? Was allowed to spend 230 million this summer but then a few bad results and bamn off he goes again. 

Thought he had done well and with the signings he made get them performing then up the table 

Alas just tossed on the discard pile with the others
		
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I think Potter is damned if he does damned if he don’t. 
If he don’t accept it does he be accused of having no aspirations of managing a big club. Best of luck to him.


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think Potter is damned if he does damned if he don’t.
If he don’t accept it does he be accused of having *no aspirations of managing a big club*. Best of luck to him.
		
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cant say i agree tashy, plenty of reasons to turn the job down and not having aspirations of managing a big club not one of them imo


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

who do the chelsea fans want? Potter? Simeone  ? or someone else

BIM, pieman (if still about) etc, who is the man for the job?


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## Yorkhacker (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Its tough for Potter, historically Chelsea have been a managers graveyard. One could say the same with Utd since Fergie. If he does a good job with Chelsea it could open other doors on the continent and the England job in the future.
		
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Hardly a graveyard, more a stopover between jobs. Besides, it hasn't done Ancelotti, Conte or Mourinho any harm, and I'm sure Tuchel will get another job soon.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			cant say i agree tashy, plenty of reasons to turn the job down and not having aspirations of managing a big club not one of them imo
		
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Personally I think he is doing a fantastic job at Brighton. They remind me of Leicester a few seasons back how organised they are. I am very surprised Brighton are prepared to let him go. I for one would not question his aspirations but others would, just to be argumentative. And I don’t mean on here. It’s what I would say for Potter is a happy problem. 
What’s the Chelsea fans thoughts on all this though. 🤔


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

well Ajax dont look much like a side that have been asset stripped this summer!!! Rangers barely had a kick so far


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## IanM (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			well Ajax dont look much like a side that have been asset stripped this summer!!! Rangers barely had a kick so far
		
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A gulf in class, as per last night with the green version. 

Lots of fans does not a decent team make


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## Rlburnside (Sep 7, 2022)

Potter would be better staying where he is, Chelsea  sack managers even when they win trophys , and I can’t see them winning the league or champions league. 

There will be a few managers sacked before Xmas, bide his time and wait for a decent club.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Potter would be better staying where he is, Chelsea  sack managers even when they win trophys , and I can’t see them winning the league or champions league. 

There will be a few managers sacked before Xmas, bide his time and wait for a decent club.
		
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What decent club will have a manager vacancy before Xmas? In particular, a club that could win the league or Champions League?


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## IanM (Sep 7, 2022)

Potter could set himself up financially for life by moving to Chelsea in the knowledge he'll be paid off within 2 years.  He can then suit himself.


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## Orikoru (Sep 7, 2022)

I really hope Potter doesn't go to Chelsea - I think if he just stays at Brighton until Christmas he's practically nailed on for the England job when we go out in the quarters and Southgate walks.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I really hope Potter doesn't go to Chelsea - I think if he just stays at Brighton until Christmas he's practically nailed on for the *England job* when we go out in the quarters and Southgate walks.
		
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He deserves better than that job.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2022)

Potter will jump at the chance to manage Chelsea- it’s the next step up in his career , he will protect himself with a long contract and be given time


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 7, 2022)

If I was Tony Bloom I would be offering Potter a ten million contract to cover the next four years. The way Brighton are going try could easily end up in a champions League spot in a year or two and that would more than cover the the mil.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			However, even if Chelsea ended up sacking him after a year or 2, he should still be in a great position to get other good job offers. I'm sure Tuchel will not struggle to find a club. 

I'm trying to think of a manager who had struggled for decent job offers after being at a big club. Ole springs to mind, but he was a pretty unique case in that he didn't really have great credentials going into the job to start with. Potter has a lot of admirers. Chelsea would help put him even more in the shop window, and I think he would have to have an absolute monumental disaster to not get decent offers, if Chelsea let him go
		
Click to expand...

Moyes was a fine example, did nothing short of a fantastic job with everton 

Before he went to United I spoke to United fans I work with and Moyes was their first choice 

I get following SAF is different but look how his career went after that 

Didn't work after leaving us either , it's like if a club fits certain managers their better off building that club up than taking a bigger club 

I mean whoever takes over chelsea has a wealth of talent they didn't pick

Say in January they want to sign something will the board back when they just spent 230 million 

Seems mental


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## Golfmmad (Sep 7, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Potter would be better staying where he is, Chelsea  sack managers even when they win trophys , and I can’t see them winning the league or champions league.

There will be a few managers sacked before Xmas, bide his time and wait for a decent club.
		
Click to expand...

I hope Potter turns Chelsea down. Why would he want to leave such a well run club with a fully supportive Chairman. 

I don't think his future opportunities will be affected either. He doesn't need Chelsea. 

The prospect of becoming the next England manager will be a much better move for him. 

Here's hoping!


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## JSims (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, but the problem is, one of those 2 people are handicapped. The OFR has only seen the incident from where he was standing, in real time. He has not had the benefit of looking at multiple angles and replays. So, if VAR is suggesting something different to the original decision, the OFR can never be in a position to decide properly for himself until he sees what VAR is seeing.

In West Ham game, the OFR would have seen what most of us had seen. Mendy making a save, but no foul on Mendy, even if slight contact was made. However, VAR might have decided that Bowen had kicked out intentionally, thus a foul. The OFR would have to realise that the VAR is in a better position to make an assessment, and that he, the OFR, might have missed something in that instant. So, he needs to review it. However, once he does, the expectation and pressure is to reverse that decision.
		
Click to expand...

I understand all that! The issue with VAR there was that VAR's 'decision' to send OFR to review - based on the VAR 'rules' - was wrong - and possibly/probably wrong in fact. The OFR might have seen the contact and decided it was not a foul (slow motion always exaggerates contact, even if there's no simulation). But being directed to review adds pressure to overturn, under current rules. My view is that OFRs should be under no pressure to overturn - simply to re-assess, though I would expect some or even most to be overturned from the 2nd look. I personally don't consider the keeper was fouled - certainly not critically as the ball had gone out of his recoverable reach, though there was contact. But that's only my opinion and I'm not a qualified football ref.


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## Rlburnside (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What decent club will have a manager vacancy before Xmas? In particular, a club that could win the league or Champions League?[/

Man United have not been convincing yet even with that win against Arsenal and I can’t see them finishing top four which won’t be good enough so there might be a job there. 😂

Other than money what insentive would he have to go there? he would get paid plenty whatever club he would move to
		
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Seeing Tuchel sacked so soon after winning 3 trophys won’t be a good move for him


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			I

Totally disagree with that. Every manager that comes to Chelsea or any other club knows what they're getting into. They all have massive egos and they all want to prove they're up to the job and better than their predecessors. They get paid very, very handsomely and a massive payoff when they are sacked. Hardly being treated like shit
		
Click to expand...

I was talking in football terms ,he won three trophies and got sacked for just three losses this season.
The money is irrelevant to them.

 Or is it something else off the field that would not surprise me.


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## Rlburnside (Sep 7, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I hope Potter turns Chelsea down. Why would he want to leave such a well run club with a fully supportive Chairman.

I don't think his future opportunities will be affected either. He doesn't need Chelsea.

The prospect of becoming the next England manager will be a much better move for him.

Here's hoping!
		
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I agree Chris why would he take a step down😂


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## IanM (Sep 7, 2022)

Why would he leave?

Money?  Career progression?

But he might turn them down.


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## JSims (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Would be interested to know how Chelsea fans feel, as they'll be a lot more clued in with the club and what they think of Tuchel
		
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Fans of most recent club would be way down my list of those to ask! And they'll be biased by the lack of recent results that triggered the sacking.


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## Yorkhacker (Sep 7, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I agree Chris why would he take a step down😂
		
Click to expand...

Well Conte, Mourinho and Villas-Boas all did, when they went to Spurs 😊


----------



## Blue in Munich (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Its tough for Potter, historically *Chelsea have been a managers graveyard.* One could say the same with Utd since Fergie. If he does a good job with Chelsea it could open other doors on the continent and the England job in the future.
		
Click to expand...

Premier League clubs with the most managers as of 26th October 2021;

https://firstsportz.com/football-top-5-football-clubs-with-most-managers-in-premier-league-history/

5: Newcastle United.
4: West Bromwich Albion.
3: Chelsea.
2: Aston Villa.
1: Tottenham Hotspur

The odd team out on that list would appear to be the "manager's graveyard" as the only serial trophy winner.  Hardly ended a lot of those manager's careers either.


----------



## JSims (Sep 7, 2022)

The problem I see for the incoming Chelsea manager is that the style of football has already been, to a large extent, decided - by Tuchel and his purchases. So the role is, until Christmas, a case of either applying that style and moulding those players he can to optimise performance that the manager might not fully believe is best! It's more of a coaching role, or at least the coaching aspect takes a higher profile role. 
It could easily be a poisoned chalice!
Oh! And it seemed a daft decision by the owner, after the huge expenditure, unless there was more behind it than just results.


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 7, 2022)

JSims said:



			The problem I see for the incoming Chelsea manager is that the style of football has already been, to a large extent, decided - by Tuchel and his purchases. So the role is, until Christmas, a case of either applying that style and moulding those players he can to optimise performance that the manager might not fully believe is best! It's more of a coaching role, or at least the coaching aspect takes a higher profile role.
It could easily be a poisoned chalice!
Oh! And it seemed a daft decision by the owner, after the huge expenditure, unless there was more behind it than just results.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe the way he acts had something to do with it as well.
Perhaps they are looking for a manager who just wants to manage,not that comes with all the antics.


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

wow, Napoli 3-0 up


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## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			wow, Napoli 3-0 up 

Click to expand...

I think the third word should of been “ Only” . It could and should of been more.


----------



## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the third word should of been “ Only” . It could and should of been more.
		
Click to expand...

yup napoli missed a pen and look horrific at the back and non existent in midfield

how many points do city win then league by lol


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the third word should of been “ Only” . It could and should of been more.
		
Click to expand...

Yes think we’re lucky it’s only three.
Stupid tackle from Milner just on HT could have been second yellow as well.
We just don’t look solid in midfield they are just bypassing it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 7, 2022)

So is VVD still a Rolls Royce of a defender?
&what’s happened to Robbo?
😬😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Premier League clubs with the most managers as of 26th October 2021;

https://firstsportz.com/football-top-5-football-clubs-with-most-managers-in-premier-league-history/

5: Newcastle United.
4: West Bromwich Albion.
3: Chelsea.
2: Aston Villa.
1: Tottenham Hotspur

The odd team out on that list would appear to be the "manager's graveyard" as the only serial trophy winner.  Hardly ended a lot of those manager's careers either.
		
Click to expand...

I had a look at that link.
quote

Chelsea is currently one of the top club in the Premier and they have seen about 13 managers in the past but the recent *appointment of Thomas Tuchel has been a blessing for them. The German manager won UEFA Champions League with Chelsea in his very first year and will now aim to win the League title this season as they currently sit at the top of the table, one point ahead of Liverpool.*

So if he has been a blessing, why sack him. They never looked close to winning the league last season after a fantastic start. And don’t look like winning it this season after a poor start.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes think we’re lucky it’s only three.
Stupid tackle from Milner just on HT could have been second yellow as well.
We just don’t look solid in midfield they are just bypassing it.
		
Click to expand...

What I find odd is Liverpool are losing the individual battles and it is costing them. Why is Milner starting ? Injuries.


----------



## JSims (Sep 7, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Maybe the way he acts had something to do with it as well.
Perhaps they are looking for a manager who just wants to manage,not that comes with all the antics.
		
Click to expand...

Dodgy handshakes aside - or even included - I would think that simply demonstrates passion! There are plenty of other managers - even top ones - that are similarly demonstrative!


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			What I find odd is Liverpool are losing the individual battles and it is costing them. Why is Milner starting ? Injuries.
		
Click to expand...

I was wondering that as well.!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			So is VVD still a Rolls Royce of a defender?
&what’s happened to Robbo?
😬😂
		
Click to expand...

Have a day off.
We’re not playing well,They are it’s no suprize


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			So is VVD still a Rolls Royce of a defender?
&what’s happened to Robbo?
😬😂
		
Click to expand...

Robbo  left 2 seasons ago,a year after Salah left or the real ones that is.
Milners bolt has shot,should retire.
Salah is like the Mickelson of Liv,got his money and now is shite.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 7, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567596632312614915
The reply’s tho 😂😂😂😂
Top 🎣


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Have a day off.
We’re not playing well,They are it’s no suprize
		
Click to expand...

Lol
Full of beanz when your winning 😀


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Have a day off.
We’re not playing well,They are it’s no suprize
		
Click to expand...

Cry me a river 😂😂😂


----------



## Rlburnside (Sep 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What decent club will have a manager vacancy before Xmas? In particular, a club that could win the league or Champions League?
		
Click to expand...

. 

Oh hang on he might get a job at Liverpool 😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Lol
Full of beanz when your winning 😀
		
Click to expand...

Who isn’t .


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the third word should of been “ Only” . It could and should of been more.
		
Click to expand...


and now it is.......


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 7, 2022)

JSims said:



			Dodgy handshakes aside - or even included - I would think that simply demonstrates passion! There are plenty of other managers - even top ones - that are similarly demonstrative!
		
Click to expand...

Very true


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 7, 2022)

Seriously question,is VVD actually any good at tackling?


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			and now it is.......
		
Click to expand...

Flippin eck Ave just chucked young Bradley Tash in bed and missed 2 goals 😳


----------



## Yorkhacker (Sep 7, 2022)

JSims said:



			Dodgy handshakes aside - or even included - I would think that simply demonstrates passion! There are plenty of other managers - even top ones - that are similarly demonstrative!
		
Click to expand...

Agreed - Conte & Klopp are the worst/best at that. Mourinho was the same. I prefer the dignity of managers like Ancelotti, but each to their own.


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 7, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He deserves better than that job.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool will be after him at this rate 😬😂


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 7, 2022)

A lot of people predicted Richarlison for flop of the season but it's not going that way at all. He's started the season superbly, and scored two great headers here to earn us the three points. Still a prick, but hopefully a sort of new Lamela but with more end product. 😄


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

Just beaten by the better team on the night.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seriously question,is VVD actually any good at tackling?
		
Click to expand...

He reads the game so well that he dosnt need to tackle normally.
But he’s looked off all season .
Sometimes you have to give the striker some credit.


----------



## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

some end to the game at Athletico lol


----------



## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			He reads the game so well that he dosnt need to tackle normally.
But he’s looked off all season .
Sometimes you have to give the striker some credit.
		
Click to expand...


Doesnt help hes having to do it all on his own surely? Gomez awful what i saw of tonight and the full backs little better, add in a high line with little midfield protection........


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## Jimaroid (Sep 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just beaten by the better team on the night.
		
Click to expand...

Something more going on than just a bad game. Napoli we’re good but, wow, the lack of effort at times was worrying.

Fair enough I don’t want to see the reds win like 😂 But the difference between them from less than 6 months ago is crazy. Tired? Injuries? Rebuilding? All fair reasons but something else too? The one thing you’ve had for years is confidence and it just seems completely absent at the moment.

Edit: meant to say Diaz is still putting in good performances. Just not happening elsewhere.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Doesnt help hes having to do it all on his own surely? Gomez awful what i saw of tonight and the full backs little better, *add in a high line with little midfield protection.*.......
		
Click to expand...

👍 I said as much after the community shield and I don’t think it will be the last time this season that is exploited.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Doesnt help hes having to do it all on his own surely? Gomez awful what i saw of tonight and the full backs little better, add in a high line with little midfield protection........
		
Click to expand...

Yes can’t argue with that.
If Milner is starting there is a problem.
Lack of creativity in midfield to many sideway/ backward passes.


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## fundy (Sep 7, 2022)

Milners stats tonight on all accounts 

1x dribbled past 9x possession lost 4 fouls given 2/10 duels won 0 crosses completed 1x penalty committed


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2022)

Jimaroid said:



			Something more going on than just a bad game. Napoli we’re good but, wow, the lack of effort at times was worrying.

Fair enough I don’t want to see the reds win like 😂 But the difference between them from less than 6 months ago is crazy. Tired? Injuries? Rebuilding? All fair reasons but something else too? The one thing you’ve had for years is confidence and it just seems completely absent at the moment.

Edit: meant to say Diaz is still putting in good performances. Just not happening elsewhere.
		
Click to expand...

Just commenting on tonight.
The high line is a problem imo.
It’s fine if your midfield is on its game but ours isn’t atm but tactics havnt changed.


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## Jimaroid (Sep 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			A lot of people predicted Richarlison for flop of the season but it's not going that way at all.
		
Click to expand...

He’s a diving, cheating, one trick wind-up merchant. 

And I love not having to defend him for it. 😂

Seriously though, he’s always deserved better and I’m glad it’s happening for him.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2022)

Shocking 1st half performance at least we drew the 2nd half. 

It's almost impossible to defend when there's nothing in midfield. Thiago showed the difference he makes when he came on.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Liverpool will be after him at this rate 😬😂
		
Click to expand...

No way, the England job is the biggest in the world apparently 🤷🏼


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

So, when people predict the top 4, it is pretty much City and Liverpool by default, then 2 others.

Do we think that we will soon be getting to the point where City are the only guarantee, and 3 others?

Liverpool are that bad, it has sort of taken the shine of United beating them for me. 

Maybe Liverpool need to sack Klopp immediately, and get Potter in before Chelsea snap him up


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 7, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I had a look at that link.
quote

Chelsea is currently one of the top club in the Premier and they have seen about 13 managers in the past but the recent *appointment of Thomas Tuchel has been a blessing for them. The German manager won UEFA Champions League with Chelsea in his very first year and will now aim to win the League title this season as they currently sit at the top of the table, one point ahead of Liverpool.*

So if he has been a blessing, why sack him. *They never looked close to winning the league last season after a fantastic start. And don’t look like winning it this season after a poor start*.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed; why would you sack a manager that never looks like winning the league...


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## 4LEX (Sep 7, 2022)

TAA is becoming the new Deli Alli. Shocking workrate and attitude.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 7, 2022)

4LEX said:



			TAA is becoming the new Deli Alli. Shocking workrate and attitude.
		
Click to expand...

He should get a decent winter break this year though.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 8, 2022)




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## Rlburnside (Sep 8, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



View attachment 44237

Click to expand...

Wow I’m shocked is this a wind up?


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 8, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Wow I’m shocked is this a wind up?
		
Click to expand...

  Yes.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 8, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Wow I’m shocked is this a wind up?
		
Click to expand...

Join the Hockey club mate
Seriously


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 8, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Wow I’m shocked is this a wind up?
		
Click to expand...

I think Steve Bruce posted that himself.
But with Chelsea and managers you never know.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He should get a decent winter break this year though.
		
Click to expand...

Along with Gomez
Probably up there with the worst of Harry Maguire performances
He was shocking and will be nowhere near any England team.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Along with Gomez
*Probably up there with the worst of Harry Maguire performances*
He was shocking and will be nowhere near any England team.
		
Click to expand...

Proof that playing the game doesnt make you more knowledgable🤣🤣🤣

Maybe this is the plan all along, play rubbish for us so they dont get picked for the WC 😁😁


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He should get a decent winter break this year though.
		
Click to expand...

He needs it.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 8, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think Steve Bruce posted that himself.
*But with Chelsea and managers you never know*.

Click to expand...

That's almost as daft as the comment you responded to, saved only by the smiley.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 8, 2022)

It is fun laughing at Liverpool. God knows, other fans have been laughing at United for long enough (and rightly so). However, genuinely, what is going wrong?

Liverpool still have a decent forward line, despite losing Mane (granted, Nunez has yet to prove himself). But Salah seems a shadow of his normal self, since well before Mane left (probably since the African Cup of Nations). From a form perspective, and from someone who simply watched as a non-Liverpool fan and thus not analysing him in any depth, he almost seems to have turned into Daniel James (I know, that is harsh, sorry.....Daniel). The midfield have never looked that spectacular on paper, despite fans singing the praises of some of those midfielders. They have always worked hard, and were a good link between a solid defence and potent attack, I just didn't see them as having outstanding technical quality. Are they past their sell by date? And, the defence look to have been atrocious. TAA seems to now have been exposed as a terrible defender, despite those arguing otherwise not so long ago. Gomez might not be as good as some people told us he was, or at least gone backwards in his development due to injuries and lack of football. And VVD doesn't seem to have the ability to tackle, or close people down. Is he now being exposed because he is not getting the protection in front and to the side of him anymore (in the same way Harry Maguire has been exposed)?

To be fair, it is still early season. They've won one game 9-0, and maybe they'll scrape a few wins, get some confidence, and then go on to win about 10-15 games in a row. However, as we stand now, the signs must be worrying for Liverpool fans. Although I'm happy enough to see them struggle, from a draft fantasy football point of view it is killing me, with Robertson and Allison in my team. A couple of weeks ago I tried to do a cheeky swap with another manager, he gives me Salah and I give him Lingard. He refused, I wonder if he is regretting that decision?


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2022)

sounds like Potter to Chelsea is a done deal

wonder who Brighton will replace him with?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			sounds like Potter to Chelsea is a done deal

wonder who Brighton will replace him with?
		
Click to expand...

Tuchel?


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Tuchel?
		
Click to expand...


nah he'll be too busy enjoying his big fat pay off lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			sounds like Potter to Chelsea is a done deal

wonder who Brighton will replace him with?
		
Click to expand...

It's one of those rare occasions where a manager is going into a club that is in a great position. Everything is in place, there is no despair, no morale to boost, egos to fluff. It is a great job for someone. 

A quick check online suggests the Celtic manager is on the radar for Brighton.


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's one of those rare occasions where a manager is going into a club that is in a great position. Everything is in place, there is no despair, no morale to boost, egos to fluff. It is a great job for someone.

A quick check online suggests the Celtic manager is on the radar for Brighton.
		
Click to expand...

didnt your online check help with the spelling


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			sounds like Potter to Chelsea is a done deal

wonder who Brighton will replace him with?
		
Click to expand...

Whoever it is it will be a downgrade. Their fans must be gutted, they had a genuine shot at Europa with Potter at the helm.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			didnt your online check help with the spelling 

Click to expand...

Ha ha. I like to avoid copy paste .

Okay then, Ange is up for the job


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ha ha. I like to avoid copy paste .

Okay then, Ange is up for the job 

Click to expand...


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## pauljames87 (Sep 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Whoever it is it will be a downgrade. Their fans must be gutted, they had a genuine shot at Europa with Potter at the helm.
		
Click to expand...

Just get someone in for 18 months then he can return once Chelsea bin him


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## pokerjoke (Sep 8, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Proof that playing the game doesnt make you more knowledgable🤣🤣🤣

Maybe this is the plan all along, play rubbish for us so they dont get picked for the WC 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

Sitting in the stands even less so
He was shocking


----------



## Fade and Die (Sep 8, 2022)

fundy said:



*sounds like Potter to Chelsea is a done deal*

wonder who Brighton will replace him with?
		
Click to expand...


Hope so as i think it will be detrimental to both clubs!

Chelsea's players will think that Potter is not good enough to tell them what to do and Brighton are in the position they are now simply because of what Potter has created. 

All being well Potter will be *our* Manager by the end of the season.... Happy days!


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Hope so as i think it will be detrimental to both clubs!

Chelsea's players will think that Potter is not good enough to tell them what to do and Brighton are in the position they are now simply because of what Potter has created.

All being well Potter will be *our* Manager by the end of the season.... Happy days! 

Click to expand...

haha, brilliant how different fans from different clubs are spinning things


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It is fun laughing at Liverpool. God knows, other fans have been laughing at United for long enough (and rightly so). However, genuinely, what is going wrong?

Liverpool still have a decent forward line, despite losing Mane (granted, Nunez has yet to prove himself). But Salah seems a shadow of his normal self, since well before Mane left (probably since the African Cup of Nations). From a form perspective, and from someone who simply watched as a non-Liverpool fan and thus not analysing him in any depth, he almost seems to have turned into Daniel James (I know, that is harsh, sorry.....Daniel). The midfield have never looked that spectacular on paper, despite fans singing the praises of some of those midfielders. They have always worked hard, and were a good link between a solid defence and potent attack, I just didn't see them as having outstanding technical quality. Are they past their sell by date? And, the defence look to have been atrocious. TAA seems to now have been exposed as a terrible defender, despite those arguing otherwise not so long ago. Gomez might not be as good as some people told us he was, or at least gone backwards in his development due to injuries and lack of football. And VVD doesn't seem to have the ability to tackle, or close people down. Is he now being exposed because he is not getting the protection in front and to the side of him anymore (in the same way Harry Maguire has been exposed)?

To be fair, it is still early season. They've won one game 9-0, and maybe they'll scrape a few wins, get some confidence, and then go on to win about 10-15 games in a row. However, as we stand now, the signs must be worrying for Liverpool fans. Although I'm happy enough to see them struggle, from a draft fantasy football point of view it is killing me, with Robertson and Allison in my team. A couple of weeks ago I tried to do a cheeky swap with another manager, he gives me Salah and I give him Lingard. He refused, I wonder if he is regretting that decision? 

Click to expand...

TAA has never been a great defender 
Sometimes not even good
Exposed many many times 
Klopps delusional comment that he was the best RB in the world,perhaps then Klopp should have went as obviously he was blinkered.
I believe he will never play consistently for England under Southgate as defending is his priority.
TAA going forward is the best since Beckham but unfortunately it’s not enough.
If they had a central defender who covered for him well it will work better,but they haven’t.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 8, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Hope so as i think it will be detrimental to both clubs!

Chelsea's players will think that Potter is not good enough to tell them what to do and Brighton are in the position they are now simply because of what Potter has created. 

All being well Potter will be *our* Manager by the end of the season.... Happy days! 

Click to expand...

Behave. Moyes is here for another 2-5 years and darn right


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			TAA has never been a great defender
Sometimes not even good
Exposed many many times
Klopps delusional comment that he was the best RB in the world,perhaps then Klopp should have went as obviously he was blinkered.
I believe he will never play consistently for England under Southgate as defending is his priority.
TAA going forward is the best since Beckham but unfortunately it’s not enough.
*If they had a central defender who covered for him well it will work better,but they haven’t.*

Click to expand...

If you went the game you'd see exactly who covers for him and its certainly not a Central defender 😉

It's the right sided  CM who usually slots in there and fills the gap. As we're currently carrying a midfield thats not fit for purpose, he then gets exposed for being "out of position" but in the tactical plan he's not.

That game last night Trent heads it back to Gomez to retain possesion. 9 out of 10 times Gomez either plays it back to Trent and he's in the right position to restart an attack or Gomez sends it back the keeper and we restart an attack.

What i can't accept nor do i think Klopp would either is his lacklustre jog back to defend. 

For 45 minutes every game Klopp sees TAA's position right in front of him. If he thought he shouldnt be were he wanted him Klopp would bollock him 100%.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Sep 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			sounds like Potter to Chelsea is a done deal

wonder who Brighton will replace him with?
		
Click to expand...

Klopp?


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It is fun laughing at Liverpool. God knows, other fans have been laughing at United for long enough (and rightly so). *However, genuinely, what is going wrong?*

Liverpool still have a decent forward line, despite losing Mane (granted, Nunez has yet to prove himself). But Salah seems a shadow of his normal self, since well before Mane left (probably since the African Cup of Nations). From a form perspective, and from someone who simply watched as a non-Liverpool fan and thus not analysing him in any depth, he almost seems to have turned into Daniel James (I know, that is harsh, sorry.....Daniel). The midfield have never looked that spectacular on paper, despite fans singing the praises of some of those midfielders. They have always worked hard, and were a good link between a solid defence and potent attack, I just didn't see them as having outstanding technical quality. Are they past their sell by date? And, the defence look to have been atrocious. TAA seems to now have been exposed as a terrible defender, despite those arguing otherwise not so long ago. Gomez might not be as good as some people told us he was, or at least gone backwards in his development due to injuries and lack of football. And VVD doesn't seem to have the ability to tackle, or close people down. Is he now being exposed because he is not getting the protection in front and to the side of him anymore (in the same way Harry Maguire has been exposed)?

To be fair, it is still early season. They've won one game 9-0, and maybe they'll scrape a few wins, get some confidence, and then go on to win about 10-15 games in a row. However, as we stand now, the signs must be worrying for Liverpool fans. Although I'm happy enough to see them struggle, from a draft fantasy football point of view it is killing me, with Robertson and Allison in my team. A couple of weeks ago I tried to do a cheeky swap with another manager, he gives me Salah and I give him Lingard. He refused, I wonder if he is regretting that decision? 

Click to expand...

For me there's 2 things.

They look shattered, last seasons full compliment of games and then some went to the international  Play offs, they were playing til 3rd week in june and theh were back in mid july.
They need more time off than what they've had.

There's not enough quality in Midfield and that breaks the whole game plan.

Mo is playing so wide he's being isolated. He usually plays that in that inside position where trent drops in. Usually leaving space for Trent to get wide amd past him. 

We've got Elliot playing as the right side Midfielder and hes just not upto it at the minute and thats not his fault. Cant fault his commitment etc but its blatantly obvious.


----------



## fundy (Sep 8, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Klopp? 

Click to expand...

and so the wheel continues to spin.............


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## Swango1980 (Sep 8, 2022)

Well, that is Potter agreed then.

So, now Brighton need to get themselves sorted. Any Brighton fans here?


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## hairball_89 (Sep 8, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			For me there's 2 things.

They look shattered, last seasons full compliment of games and then some went to the international  Play offs, they were playing til 3rd week in june and theh were back in mid july.
They need more time off than what they've had.

There's not enough quality in Midfield and that breaks the whole game plan.

Mo is playing so wide he's being isolated. He usually plays that in that inside position where trent drops in. Usually leaving space for Trent to get wide amd past him.

We've got Elliot playing as the right side Midfielder and hes just not upto it at the minute and thats not his fault. Cant fault his commitment etc but its blatantly obvious.
		
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Agree with every word of this. 

The midfield being broken, physically and tactically, just shows how important they were at their peak. They now can't cover for the wing backs (all the talk of Trent, but Robertson has been equally exposed this season) and they (without Thiago) don't have the killer instinct to feed the forwards. Especially obvious down the right, where 2018-2020 - winning the CL and then the league - the system was almost Hendo at RB (covering from CM, as Gini did for Robbo), Trent at right wing and Salah inside right. For some reason now Trent is coming inside and Salah coming out so wide he's basically on the moon. 

The midfield doesn't work and the system falls apart. It's not rocket science, and it's up to Klopp to solve. But it was plain as day towards the end of last season. Yes, we were minutes away from "winning the lot" but we also didn't score in what felt like about 27 days off football against Chelsea, not 4/5 hours or whatever it was. And the ability to keep conceding first is not one that I'd like to see us build on!


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## Tashyboy (Sep 8, 2022)

The system that Liverpool play, it leaves them wide open at the back. Long balls over the top or more so down the flanks that have been vacated by the wing backs is a no brainer. Napoli exploited it to perfection. Now there has to be a plan to counter that Long ball. There isn’t and that’s not down to the players. Liverpool press from the front and do it very very well. I expected Liverpool to batter Utd when they played out from the back. Utd didn’t, they leathered it forward which left Liverpool heavy up front and having to build from the back. By that time teams have got back and compacted the defence, it makes it harder for Robertson and TAA. to get forward and create space. 
I have said this before and I will say it again. When City were battering teams a few seasons back. Teams the following season went on damage limitation. Mostly pack defence and hit on the break. It is still happening this year to good effect from some teams.
Liverpool are now in that situation where teams have changed there approach when playing Liverpool. They don’t want to get battered. Liverpool have to find a way to play different. At the moment I don’t see it and again that is not down to the players.
City changed by playing a false nine and then buying a Viking. Liverpool need a very good plan B and soon. Coz if they don’t they will lose the fear factor and when that happens the Utd fans will reappear and start taking the Mick again.


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## rudebhoy (Sep 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ha ha. I like to avoid copy paste .

Okay then, Ange is up for the job 

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No chance Ange would be interested in that job, a step down.


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, that is Potter agreed then.

So, now Brighton need to get themselves sorted. Any Brighton fans here?
		
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Yeah I'm a seagulls fan and am gutted ,the way spuds have got away with things so far and Liverpool playing rubbish yernited aren't inspiring anyone, the gooners are flaky , Brighton could easily have been a top four side if potter had stayed .
 Unfortunately we will never know. 
 I can't see Chelsea finishing top six let alone top four as potter ball takes time to establish and the primadonnas won't like being told to play as a team and not as individuals.
 Brighton will need a lot more than just another manager as the whole backroom staff has gone with him . Which is a shame as I thought Bruno would have been a good shout to take over as he knows how potter did things.  
To be honest we will be lucky to make top half this season and probably struggle to stay up next season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2022)

Norrin Radd said:



			Yeah I'm a seagulls fan and am gutted ,the way spuds have got away with things so far and Liverpool playing rubbish yernited aren't inspiring anyone, the gooners are flaky , Brighton could easily have been a top four side if potter had stayed .
Unfortunately we will never know.
I can't see Chelsea finishing top six let alone top four as potter ball takes time to establish and the primadonnas won't like being told to play as a team and not as individuals.
Brighton will need a lot more than just another manager as the whole backroom staff has gone with him . Which is a shame as I thought Bruno would have been a good shout to take over as he knows how potter did things. 
To be honest we will be lucky to make top half this season and probably struggle to stay up next season.
		
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Be more positive. Your club seems to be very well run, hopefully the new manager will be of the same mindset and just slot in. I can't see you appointing someone who wants to change things so ideally it will be seamless.


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Be more positive. Your club seems to be very well run, hopefully the new manager will be of the same mindset and just slot in. I can't see you appointing someone who wants to change things so ideally it will be seamless.
		
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Agree, Tony Bloom clearly no idiot and the club is well run, they'll make a decent appointment, most likely from the lower leagues hopefully


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 8, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			For me there's 2 things.

They look shattered, last seasons full compliment of games and then some went to the international  Play offs, they were playing til 3rd week in june and theh were back in mid july.
They need more time off than what they've had.

There's not enough quality in Midfield and that breaks the whole game plan.

Mo is playing so wide he's being isolated. He usually plays that in that inside position where trent drops in. Usually leaving space for Trent to get wide amd past him.

We've got Elliot playing as the right side Midfielder and hes just not upto it at the minute and thats not his fault. Cant fault his commitment etc but its blatantly obvious.
		
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genuine question though.
Why hasn’t Klopp done anything about it. Or has he.
This has been happening for a while Milner in the starting line up
Has Klopp asked for funds and owners said no.
Or did Klopps targets say no to Liverpool?


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## Golfmmad (Sep 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			Agree, Tony Bloom clearly no idiot and the club is well run, they'll make a decent appointment, most likely from the lower leagues hopefully
		
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They've always had a plan B and continually aware of the best managers out there to suit Brightons plans for the future. 

As disappointed as I am, I'm confident that Tony Bloom and Paul Barber will appoint the right person to take the club forward. 

Good luck Graham Potter. 
.


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## Slime (Sep 8, 2022)

VAR.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 8, 2022)

Slime said:



			VAR.  

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Well, looks like the Europeans are equally inept.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 8, 2022)

Slime said:



			VAR.  

Click to expand...




Swango1980 said:



			Well, looks like the Europeans are equally inept.
		
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I'm trying to remember if there was similar concern for Reece James when a ball went off his thigh & onto his arm at Anfield, resulting in a red card & a penalty...


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## Slime (Sep 8, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'm trying to remember if there was similar concern for Reece James when a ball went off his thigh & onto his arm at Anfield, resulting in a red card & a penalty... 

Click to expand...

I wouldn't have seen that game ............................................ Liverpool were playing.


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## Slime (Sep 8, 2022)

Casimero and Ronaldo have cost us tonight.
Both very poor. 

Oh ............................. and VAR ........................ twice!


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## pauljames87 (Sep 8, 2022)

Job done. 

Good to hear the crowd singing god save the Queen at end.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 8, 2022)

David Silva at his finest playing at the swamp once more 😉


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## BiMGuy (Sep 8, 2022)

Was in the social club tonight with the ManU game on. Consensus amongst everyone there was a pen is the correct decision. 

Apart from the ManU fans of course.


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## Slime (Sep 9, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Was in the social club tonight with the ManU game on. *Consensus amongst everyone there was a pen is the correct decision.*

Apart from the ManU fans of course.
		
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Obviously.
No non Utd fans would ever think otherwise.


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## Depreston (Sep 9, 2022)

Ridiculous it’s all been cancelled


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## Swango1980 (Sep 9, 2022)

Depreston said:



			Ridiculous it’s all been cancelled
		
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My mate had bought his 9 year old a surprise birthday present, ticket to Man City versus Spurs. He'd been pretty excited for the last few weeks, waiting for the moment to break the surprise this weekend.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 9, 2022)

Depreston said:



			Ridiculous it’s all been cancelled
		
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Show respect. 

The whole season should be null and void.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			My mate had bought his 9 year old a surprise birthday present, ticket to Man City versus Spurs. He'd been pretty excited for the last few weeks, waiting for the moment to break the surprise this weekend.
		
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My mate (scouser works&lives in Ireland) has done the same, he's bringing his 6yr old over for our game tomorrow.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 9, 2022)

Even the kids football has been cancelled.

Poor decision in my opinion. They have to go to school, but can’t play a football match with their mates at the weekend.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			My mate (scouser works&lives in Ireland) has done the same, he's bringing his 6yr old over for our game tomorrow.
		
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He has just tried to contact the trainline, and they will offer no refund on the £75 train ticket.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He has just tried to contact the trainline, and they will offer no refund on the £75 train ticket.
		
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Capitalism doesnt mourn.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 9, 2022)

Fun stuff cancelled but get your arse to work.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Show respect.

The whole season should be null and void.
		
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We were pretty much guaranteed 3 points this weekend too. Gutted.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 9, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Fun stuff cancelled but get your arse to work.
		
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My mate (the one who WAS going to go to the City game), was talking to his mate who works at Sports Direct. He is raging. Sporting events, including kids events cancelled. Yet he still has to go to work to sell sporting stuff.

My mate has now been given an automated feedback request asking for feedback after his recent phone call with them. They are going to get it in the neck now.


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## rudebhoy (Sep 9, 2022)

Football cancelled but Premiership Rugby going ahead?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 9, 2022)

Another week for DCL to get fit. Before his next injury, obviously.

On a more serious note, I do think the mass cancellation of sport is over the top and entirely pointless. Have a minutes silence before each match if people feel that something is required.


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## Orikoru (Sep 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He has just tried to contact the trainline, and they will offer no refund on the £75 train ticket.
		
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This is the first thing I thought when I heard the games were all cancelled. The sheer amount of travel and hotel expenses people are going to need refunding now. Absolutely stupid. Why not just have a two minute's silence at every game??


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## fundy (Sep 9, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Football cancelled but Premiership Rugby going ahead?
		
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and cricket which likes to follow the crowd completely confused as to what to do


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Show respect.

The whole season should be null and void.
		
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With league position taking the priority of champions League spot for next year , YAY BRIGHTON V REAL MADRID AT THE AMEX


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## GB72 (Sep 9, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Football cancelled but Premiership Rugby going ahead?
		
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Sadly rugby simply cannot afford to cancel. The clubs badly need match day revenue. Plus rugby can go ahead without the same drain on police and other public resources that may need to be applied elsewhere at this time.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			This is the first thing I thought when I heard the games were all cancelled. The sheer amount of travel and hotel expenses people are going to need refunding now. Absolutely stupid. *Why not just have a two minute's silence at every game??*

Click to expand...

Probably because there are no small number of fans who cannot manage a minute's silence when it is for one of their own; what chance of 2 minutes silence?

And before anyone says they wouldn't be that disrespectful I have two words for you; Trevor Sinclair.


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## GB72 (Sep 9, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Probably because there are no small number of fans who cannot manage a minute's silence when it is for one of their own; what chance of 2 minutes silence?

And before anyone says they wouldn't be that disrespectful I have two words for you; Trevor Sinclair.
		
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I will raise you with the shouts of abuse about the Queen reported during the half time silence at the Hearts match last night that resulted in the ref cutting it short.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 9, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Probably because there are no small number of fans who cannot manage a minute's silence when it is for one of their own; what chance of 2 minutes silence?

And before anyone says they wouldn't be that disrespectful I have two words for you; Trevor Sinclair.
		
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It was well respected at Old Trafford last night, and the away fans were not even British.

Alternatively, they could have sang the national anthem before every game, and paid tribute to the Queen. Having hundreds of thousands of people together, up and down the country, would seem to be a much better tribute, than cancelling people's plans and, I'm guessing, leaving them little to do except sit in the house and watch the BBC all day.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 9, 2022)

I wonder if the authorities will be under pressure to postpone games next weekend, being so close to the funeral? Presumably, they would absolutely need to postpone games on the actual day of the funeral, although I don't think that will have an impact if the funeral is a week on Monday.


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## GB72 (Sep 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wonder if the authorities will be under pressure to postpone games next weekend, being so close to the funeral? Presumably, they would absolutely need to postpone games on the actual day of the funeral, although I don't think that will have an impact if the funeral is a week on Monday.
		
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I would suspect that the need for police resources for the funeral would suggest postponements next weekend.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			This is the first thing I thought when I heard the games were all cancelled. *The sheer amount of travel and hotel expenses people are going to need refunding now. Absolutely stupid*. Why not just have a two minute's silence at every game??
		
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Nobody should expect an independent hotelier to refund a customer because the PL have cancelled all the games. 

As for a 2min silence, 1 is more than enough.


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## Piece (Sep 9, 2022)

As one of the few on the here who actually go to live games and coach a kids team, in the grand scheme of things, it's only football.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 9, 2022)

Piece said:



			As one of the few on the here who actually go to live games and coach a kids team, in the grand scheme of things, it's only football. 

Click to expand...

True. And if it is something you do every single week, perhaps a week off isn't a big deal. 

However, if this particular weekend is a one off for someone, or a family, that included travel expenses (and maybe accommodation expenses) then it is going to have a bigger personal impact on them. It may also have an impact on businesses that rely on heavy volumes of fans.

I'm sure most of us can simply consider it a minor inconvenience, and perhaps it makes our weekend a little more dull. For others, it may well have ruined a weekend they have been looking forward to for months, and lost money as well.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He has just tried to contact the trainline, and they will offer no refund on the £75 train ticket.
		
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That’s pathetic


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 9, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I would suspect that the need for police resources for the funeral would suggest postponements next weekend.
		
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Bristol v Bath has been rearranged from tonight until tomorrow early evening. Not quite sure why they don't just play it tonight but it is happening tomorrow still.


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## GB72 (Sep 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bristol v Bath has been rearranged from tonight until tomorrow early evening. Not quite sure why they don't just play it tonight but it is happening tomorrow still.
		
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I think that there is more concern about showing respect playing today and with it being a local derby there is less impact from moving the day. Sale v Northampton has been moved to Sunday. 

A very tricky line for rugby to walk. Following on from Covid, the clubs are in desperate need to match day revenue but also do not need the media pile on if the decision to play was not taken welll, especially with football cancelled. Much of the day has been spent dithering about what to do so this is some sort of happy medium. 

So, if any of you are missing your live sport at the weekend, head to your nearest premiership rugby grounds, some great matches on, especially the 2 in the South West and the One up in the North West at Sale.


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## Jensen (Sep 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			My mate (the one who WAS going to go to the City game), was talking to his mate who works at Sports Direct. He is raging. Sporting events, including kids events cancelled. Yet he still has to go to work to sell sporting stuff.

My mate has now been given an automated feedback request asking for feedback after his recent phone call with them. They are going to get it in the neck now.
		
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What does he expect, it’s Fat Ashley he’s working for.
I’m more surprised he’s not introduced a further sale as some sort of mark of respect.
Despicable Individual


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## rudebhoy (Sep 9, 2022)

PGA resuming tomorrow…


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## Swango1980 (Sep 9, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			PGA resuming tomorrow…
		
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Does this mean all sport is on at the weekend, except football?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Does this mean all sport is on at the weekend, except football?
		
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Pretty much


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## Tashyboy (Sep 9, 2022)

Piece said:



			As one of the few on the here who actually go to live games and coach a kids team, in the grand scheme of things, it's only football. 

Click to expand...

Amen to that, one weekend in 70 years we have cancelled football because of the loss of our Queen. Hardly end of the world. She mourned her husband on her own. Maybe for once we can mourn together. Football cannot win, if the games had gone ahead, there would be massive accusations of football and money again.
Right decision for me cancelling the weekend.


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## Orikoru (Sep 9, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Amen to that, one weekend in 70 years we have cancelled football because of the loss of our Queen. Hardly end of the world. She mourned her husband on her own. Maybe for once we can mourn together. Football cannot win, if the games had gone ahead, there would be massive accusations of football and money again.
Right decision for me cancelling the weekend.
		
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So just sod everyone who's a couple of hundred quid down on hotels and travel that they're not going to get back then? Because everyone is wealthy at the moment as it is.


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## Piece (Sep 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			So just sod everyone who's a couple of hundred quid down on hotels and travel that they're not going to get back then? Because everyone is wealthy at the moment as it is.
		
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No real difference to those games that are postponed near KO due to waterlogged pitches, floodlight failure, security issue, fans getting into stadia, etc. Unfortunate it maybe, but it happens.


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## 2blue (Sep 9, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Amen to that, one weekend in 70 years we have cancelled football because of the loss of our Queen. Hardly end of the world. She mourned her husband on her own. Maybe for once we can mourn together. Football cannot win, if the games had gone ahead, there would be massive accusations of football and money again.
The right decision for me to cancel the weekend.
		
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Decades, & decades gone but yet again a wrong decision.... poor judgment yet again!! Will you ever learn!!


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## Swango1980 (Sep 9, 2022)

Piece said:



			No real difference to those games that are postponed near KO due to waterlogged pitches, floodlight failure, security issue, fans getting into stadia, etc. Unfortunate it maybe, but it happens.
		
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Well, to be honest, there is a difference. If a pitch is waterlogged, there is no choice to call off the game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			So just sod everyone who's a couple of hundred quid down on hotels and travel that they're not going to get back then? Because everyone is wealthy at the moment as it is.
		
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It’s one weekend of football , why is it that football fans ( that I’m seeing all over social media ) are throwing their toys out because the game has been cancelled this weekend out of respect ?

Is the world going to stop turning ? Is the sport in ruins ?

Football at times and it’s fans let themselves down regularly with their lack of respect and thinking that the sports is above all

Would be good just for once to just show the same respect and dignity that the Queen did



2blue said:



			Decades, & decades gone but yet again a wrong decision.... poor judgment yet again!! Will you ever learn!!
		
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You have already shown a lack of respect once , most decent people would have learned from that


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## Tashyboy (Sep 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			So just sod everyone who's a couple of hundred quid down on hotels and travel that they're not going to get back then? Because everyone is wealthy at the moment as it is.
		
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Seriously, where was the uproar when The Game between palace and Brighton was cancelled due to a train strike. Get on a bus or car, it’s hardly like there travelling to Newcastle. We can cancel a game due to that And  Sod all is said, yet we lose our Queen and now everyone is a couple of hundred quid down.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 9, 2022)

Probably because some people who attend football matches can’t be trusted to be respectful.

Why is it every other sport has said that will continue as a mark of respect, but football needs a weekend off?

I really don’t care about the professional game. But why cancel all grassroots games? Madness!


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## Orikoru (Sep 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s one weekend of football , why is it that football fans ( that I’m seeing all over social media ) are throwing their toys out because the game has been cancelled this weekend out of respect ?

Is the world going to stop turning ? Is the sport in ruins ?

Football at times and it’s fans let themselves down regularly with their lack of respect and thinking that the sports is above all

Would be good just for once to just show the same respect and dignity that the Queen did



You have already shown a lack of respect once , most decent people would have learned from that
		
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I don't care from the perspective that I don't get to watch football this weekend. Not bothered. I just don't understand why Queen dying = football is cancelled when very few other things seem to be cancelled, and not a single thought was given to all the people who'll lose out on a lot of money. 

How is cancelling football showing respect when other things are carrying on as normal? Explain it to me, because I just don't get it.


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## 2blue (Sep 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s one weekend of football , why is it that football fans ( that I’m seeing all over social media ) are throwing their toys out because the game has been cancelled this weekend out of respect ?

Is the world going to stop turning ? Is the sport in ruins ?

Football at times and it’s fans let themselves down regularly with their lack of respect and thinking that the sports is above all

Would be good just for once to just show the same respect and dignity that the Queen did

You have already shown a lack of respect once , most decent people would have learned from that
		
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Says one severely radicalized individual...  most normal people think it is rather over the top & abnormal.
Life goes on after all.


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## 2blue (Sep 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s one weekend of football , why is it that football fans ( that I’m seeing all over social media ) are throwing their toys out because the game has been cancelled this weekend out of respect ?

Is the world going to stop turning ? Is the sport in ruins ?

Football at times and it’s fans let themselves down regularly with their lack of respect and thinking that the sports is above all

Would be good just for once to just show the same respect and dignity that the Queen did



You have already shown a lack of respect once , most decent people would have learned from that
		
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Can you give us a list of those who respect your judgement!!


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			So just sod everyone who's a couple of hundred quid down on hotels and travel that they're not going to get back then? Because everyone is wealthy at the moment as it is.
		
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And just how many people are going to lose a small fortune then? Most match goers are season ticket holders so they will be valid for the rearranged fixture. Most won’t be buying their tickets in advance but on the day. It will be a minor inconvenience for the vast majority as a mark of respect for 70 years unblemished service.

I’m pretty sure in the days of social media that if hotels and train operators are approached politely they’ll be happy to come to some sort of arrangement to avoid getting the bad publicity that they undoubtedly will if they mug people off under these circumstances.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 9, 2022)

2blue said:



			Says one severely radicalized individual...  most normal people think it is rather over the top & abnormal.
Life goes on after all.
		
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Radicalised? In what way ? Because I show respect to a person who acted with humility and grace throughout my lifetime. Life does go but there is nothing wrong with showing compassion and respect - I know it’s tough for you to understand


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## theoneandonly (Sep 9, 2022)

It does seem odd that football is cancelled but most other sport goes on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't care from the perspective that I don't get to watch football this weekend. Not bothered. I just don't understand why Queen dying = football is cancelled when very few other things seem to be cancelled, and not a single thought was given to all the people who'll lose out on a lot of money.

How is cancelling football showing respect when other things are carrying on as normal? Explain it to me, because I just don't get it.
		
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If you need it explaining then you will never get it 

But one simple question- which sport over the years has been mainly the one sport which has fans that have shown they lack the basic level of respect when it comes to a simple minutes silence.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 9, 2022)

Just from a practical point of view, why is football cancelled? Instead of slamming people for not being respectful if they simply ask the question.

For those who think it is the right thing, what will you be doing instead of watching the football? Watching BBC coverage and weeping? Or, will you be playing golf, or watching the BMW PGA Championship? Maybe you'll tune into the Formula 1, or go to the seaside for a day? 

Do people think people can't respect the Queen, and do other things at the same time? I am sure there are many many people who are capable of watching football for a few hours this weekend, and also remember the life of the Queen. I know I've been inspired, and even felt emotional when watching tributes to her life. She has been through everything, and an honour to have lived during the reign of a lady who will be a great, iconic figure centuries from now.

I think football missed a trick. While the news is still raw, it would have been a great time to pay tribute at games, when hundreds of thousands are at the games. Instead of having to stay at home, give people the chance to be with others and belt out the national anthem. Could have been the most emotional national anthems sung during football matches. Hopefully it is still done when football returns, but the emotions may have dampened a bit by then.

I'm also personally disappointed as I've seen the impact it had had on my mate, given this weekend was a very rare chance for him to take his son as a treat  AND he had lost money. There will probably be hundreds, if not thousands in a similar position.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 9, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I’m pretty sure in the days of social media that if hotels and train operators are approached politely they’ll be happy to come to some sort of arrangement to avoid getting the bad publicity that they undoubtedly will if they mug people off under these circumstances.
		
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Yep, agree with this. Mrs Colch was due to attend a craft fair this weekend on the Sandringham estate which has now been cancelled. As well as paying for her stall (which will be refunded) she'd booked a "saver rate" room at the local Travel Lodge to stay in for the weekend. The saver rate room price meant that if she'd cancelled she wouldn't have got any refund. She gave them a call this morning to explain the situation and they said that if she cancelled the room she wouldn't get a refund but she could rebook for another date at no extra charge. She's now rebooked for a random date next year and can change the date again once she knows when she'll need it for the next craft fair they're holding in April next year. There was no legal need for Travel Lodge to do it but they have done and everyone ends up happy.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just from a practical point of view, why is football cancelled? Instead of slamming people for not being respectful if they simply ask the question.

For those who think it is the right thing, what will you be doing instead of watching the football? Watching BBC coverage and weeping? Or, will you be playing golf, or watching the BMW PGA Championship? Maybe you'll tune into the Formula 1, or go to the seaside for a day?

Do people think people can't respect the Queen, and do other things at the same time? I am sure there are many many people who are capable of watching football for a few hours this weekend, and also remember the life of the Queen. I know I've been inspired, and even felt emotional when watching tributes to her life. She has been through everything, and an honour to have lived during the reign of a lady who will be a great, iconic figure centuries from now.

*I think football missed a trick. While the news is still raw, it would have been a great time to pay tribute at games, when hundreds of thousands are at the games. Instead of having to stay at home, give people the chance to be with others and belt out the national anthem. Could have been the most emotional national anthems sung during football matches. Hopefully it is still done when football returns, but the emotions may have dampened a bit by then.*

I'm also personally disappointed as I've seen the impact it had had on my mate, given this weekend was a very rare chance for him to take his son as a treat  AND he had lost money. There will probably be hundreds, if not thousands in a similar position.
		
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Because that minority of football fans have continually showed that they lack the very basic level of IQ to show any level of respect and there would have been no doubt that there would have been idiots who would have used it as a perfect chance to show how small their brain in 

And you only have to look at what happened last night at Hearts and then the actions of Sinclair , you only have to read social media to witness the level of scum within football fans reacting the total opposite of respect


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## Orikoru (Sep 9, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I’m pretty sure in the days of social media that if hotels and train operators are approached politely they’ll be happy to come to some sort of arrangement to avoid getting the bad publicity that they undoubtedly will if they mug people off under these circumstances.
		
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I hope you're right.



Liverpoolphil said:



			If you need it explaining then you will never get it
		
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If you don't know just say you don't know instead of the sanctimonious waffle. 😆


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## JSims (Sep 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't care from the perspective that I don't get to watch football this weekend. Not bothered. I just don't understand why Queen dying = football is cancelled when very few other things seem to be cancelled, and not a single thought was given to all the people who'll lose out on a lot of money.

How is cancelling football showing respect when other things are carrying on as normal? Explain it to me, because I just don't get it.
		
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Perhaps the fact that she was Patron of the FA had quite a bit to do with it! Likewise Saturday's racing - she was a patron of the governing body - has been cancelled/moved to Sunday.
So bodies for which she was Patron have taken stronger action than others.
I'm pretty certain that tickets for games originally scheduled for tomorrow will be honoured at the deferred game. And transport/accommodation arrangements will also likely be honoured too


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## Orikoru (Sep 9, 2022)

JSims said:



			Perhaps the fact that she was Patron of the FA had quite a bit to do with it! Likewise Saturday's racing - she was a patron of the governing body - has been cancelled/moved to Sunday.
So bodies for which she was Patron have taken stronger action than others.
I'm pretty certain that tickets for games originally scheduled for tomorrow will be honoured at the deferred game.
		
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If she was a patron of those things then would she really have wanted them to grind to a halt for her? I doubt it.

Yeah I'm sure the actual event tickets won't be a problem obviously. That's why I never mentioned them.


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## JSims (Sep 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			If she was a patron of those things then would she really have wanted them to grind to a halt for her? I doubt it.

Yeah I'm sure the actual event tickets won't be a problem obviously. That's why I never mentioned them.
		
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You've simply shown LPP was correct in the post you described as 'sanctimonious'!
Btw. Note the addition I made to the post you quoted.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because that minority of football fans have continually showed that they lack the very basic level of IQ to show any level of respect and there would have been no doubt that there would have been idiots who would have used it as a perfect chance to show how small their brain in 

And you only have to look at what happened last night at Hearts and then the actions of Sinclair , you only have to read social media to witness the level of scum within football fans reacting the total opposite of respect
		
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So, you are saying football cannot be played because a small proportion of football fans are scum? How would that impact the moment tens of thousands sing the national anthem. There were probably many other activities football could have done to honour Queen Elizabeth II as well. 

I don't see how the likes of Trevor Sinclair could have spoiled that. In fact, even if they tried, you'd have seen the strength of spirit of the other fans who would oppose them, and want to pay tribute to the Queen.

Unfortunately, there will be idiots like Sinclair in all areas. They are more likely to.be heard when they spout their nonsense on social media, football or no football.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2022)

Cancellation is pointless, costly and irritating to many. It neither shows respect to cancel, nor disrespect to carry on. Life goes on. For those who want to spend days on end contemplating her death, carry on. For the rest, who enjoy the escape that sport offers in these tough times, they should be allowed to. Black armbands for the players, a minutes silence, alls good.

I'm off to play golf now. Disrespectful or life going on? Will those who want football cancelled be playing?


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Cancellation is pointless, costly and irritating to many. It neither shows respect to cancel, nor disrespect to carry on. Life goes on. For those who want to spend days on end contemplating her death, carry on. For the rest, who enjoy the escape that sport offers in these tough times, they should be allowed to. Black armbands for the players, a minutes silence, alls good.

I'm off to play golf now. Disrespectful or life going on? Will those who want football cancelled be playing?
		
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Couldn’t agree more.
Just off golfing myself.
Have a good one 👍🏻


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## Jimaroid (Sep 10, 2022)

It’s a stupid misjudgement IMO because it doesn’t fix the issues it just moves them to be under a bigger spotlight in the next fixtures. They’ve gone and Streisand Effected themselves and amplified the concerns with the same issues in the minutes silence that will surely have to happen at the next games. And they’ll all be closer to the state funeral.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2022)

I'm guessing we will see many touching tributes in many sporting events this weekend.

Football will be notable only by its absence.

Some tribute to Queen Elizabeth II that.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



*Probably because some people who attend football matches can’t be trusted to be respectful.*

Why is it every other sport has said that will continue as a mark of respect, but football needs a weekend off?

I really don’t care about the professional game. But why cancel all grassroots games? Madness!
		
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Just this weekend? Might aswell null and void the league because those who dont like the monarchy or wont stay silent for 60seconds will still be there next week.

Cancelling grass roots football is a joke.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Seriously, where was the uproar when The Game between palace and Brighton was cancelled due to a train strike. Get on a bus or car, it’s hardly like there travelling to Newcastle. We can cancel a game due to that And  Sod all is said, yet we lose our Queen and now everyone is a couple of hundred quid down.
		
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You've obvioisly never been to Brighton's ground.

They rely on trains to get 80% of fans there and back from London and Brighton. There's no parking available around the stadium  for an incease of 80% of fans.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you need it explaining then you will never get it

But one simple question- which sport over the years has been mainly the one sport which has fans that have shown they lack the basic level of respect when it comes to a simple minutes silence.
		
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Those same people will still be there next week and the week after, unfortunately it wont stop a percentage of people disrespecting a minuttes silence for the monarchy.

Cancelling football is not a respectful decision, it's a PR decision.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2022)

Isn’t this why the minutes applause was brought in ?
It drowns out the idiots who can’t stay quiet.
Is that not acceptable as a tribute just like a gun salute it dosnt need silence.
It’s a sad time but life goes on.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You've obvioisly never been to Brighton's ground.

They rely on trains to get 80% of fans there and back from London and Brighton. There's no parking available around the stadium  for an incease of 80% of fans.
		
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Ave seen fans bust a gut to get to games Stu, If I asked you what was your weirdest, longest journey to get to a game. You would rack your brains over half a dozen. You did it to get there. I would love to hear the story though 👍

All that said, am off the merry go round.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2022)

[


Tashyboy said:



			Ave seen fans bust a gut to get to games Stu, If I asked you what was your weirdest, longest journey to get to a game. You would rack your brains over half a dozen. You did it to get there. I would love to hear the story though 👍

All that said, am off the merry go round.
		
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Yeah been there and done it but in this case i'm certain local police have had the final say on this.  Have a look where the ground is on google maps and you'll understand.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 10, 2022)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...cap-limit-boosted-694MILLION-569m-LaLiga.html

re Barcelona😳


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## Beezerk (Sep 10, 2022)

Our game is cancelled today, kinda glad as it's lashing it down 
Oddly the rugby is still on so I'm heading down to watch the Blaydon vs Tynedale derby game this afternoon.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't care from the perspective that I don't get to watch football this weekend. Not bothered. I just don't understand why Queen dying = football is cancelled when very few other things seem to be cancelled, and not a single thought was given to all the people who'll lose out on a lot of money.

How is cancelling football showing respect when other things are carrying on as normal? Explain it to me, because I just don't get it.
		
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I can almost guarantee its more to do with the fact the police are a lot busier this weekend and cant police the football. Lets be 100% honest football fans without police about? just asking for trouble. proven time and time again.


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## Piece (Sep 10, 2022)

The top level golf and cricket are on as its near impossible to rearrange, thus they would have to be cancelled. Football games can easily be rearranged, hence they are postponed.

I wonder if the same people moaning about football not being played will also enjoy the benefit of a day off on the funeral day?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2022)

Piece said:



			The top level golf and cricket are on as its near impossible to rearrange, thus they would have to be cancelled. Football games can easily be rearranged, hence they are postponed.

I wonder if the same people moaning about football not being played will also enjoy the benefit of a day off on the funeral day?
		
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football as a sport beyond its own fans doesn’t have a great image - greed , self entitlement are at the forefront of the image of the sport 

There is no doubt that there would be more than enough fans who wouldn’t be able to respect the current situation and it would have put the sport on the front page for all the wrong reasons.

When you add in the amount of police presence needed at each game then imo it was the right choice to postpone professional games and the reaction imo shows the selfish nature of some 

Grass roots and junior football etc I see no reason why that couldn’t have carried on as normal - it’s not a victim of the tribalism infesting the top level game 

The game will be played at another date and for once the rest of the sporting world will have said that Top Level have made the right choice


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## Piece (Sep 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			football as a sport beyond its own fans doesn’t have a great image - greed , self entitlement are at the forefront of the image of the sport

There is no doubt that there would be more than enough fans who wouldn’t be able to respect the current situation and it would have put the sport on the front page for all the wrong reasons.

When you add in the amount of police presence needed at each game then imo it was the right choice to postpone professional games and the reaction imo shows the selfish nature of some

Grass roots and junior football etc I see no reason why that couldn’t have carried on as normal - it’s not a victim of the tribalism infesting the top level game

The game will be played at another date and for once the rest of the sporting world will have said that Top Level have made the right choice
		
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Grass roots are under local FA organisations, so once the main FA says games off, the others have to follow suit. And if clubs are FA chartered (like ours) then to remain chartered, they have to abide by guidelines.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2022)

Piece said:



			Grass roots are under local FA organisations, so once the main FA says games off, the others have to follow suit. And if clubs are FA chartered (like ours) then to remain chartered, they have to abide by guidelines.
		
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Yeah can understand the regulations behind it but think they could have done it differently -England Hockey for example left it up to each club and there was no requirement to postpone any matches etc - think various FAs ( scotland etc ) could have made the split


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I can almost guarantee its more to do with the fact the police are a lot busier this weekend and cant police the football. Lets be 100% honest football fans without police about? just asking for trouble. proven time and time again.
		
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What is making the police busier this weekend?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What is making the police busier this weekend?
		
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the 10 days of mourning , have you seen the crowds in london? we also have been placed at the highest level of threat level

the police are doing other duties..

infact if the queens body wasnt being flown home the original plan (under london bridge has fallen) was by train to london at quarter speed with platforms lined with police so people could pay respects

so yes the police are a bit busy this weekend, last thing they need is a bunch of drunk idiots having a row after a game of football (which is almost every weekend no?)


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 10, 2022)

According to Twitter the reason football was cancelled is because Celtic & Liverpool fans couldn’t be trusted to show respect 🤷‍♂️
Crazy world we live in 😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What is making the police busier this weekend?
		
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Just turn on the news and see the increased level of people in london , all the extra security and police presence required , the increased threat levels along with preparing for the rest of Op London Bridge , both BTP and the Met will be going into overdrive now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2022)

People do realise that there are football teams outside of London don't they? If the met has particular issues, understandable, then cancel based on localised issues. They don't affect other parts of the country though.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			the 10 days of mourning , have you seen the crowds in london? we also have been placed at the highest level of threat level

the police are doing other duties..

infact if the queens body wasnt being flown home the original plan (under london bridge has fallen) was by train to london at quarter speed with platforms lined with police so people could pay respects

so yes the police are a bit busy this weekend, last thing they need is a bunch of drunk idiots having a row after a game of football (which is almost every weekend no?)
		
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I'm sure there have been huge events in the UK before that haven't resulted in all football been cancelled? I bet if someone like the President of the US was to visit the UK, it would require a large amount of police, but still doubtful football would be cancelled.

As far as I am aware, the government or police did not ask for football to be cancelled? If they couldn't cope, I'm sure they would have demanded it.

Even if they couldn't cope in London, I'm pretty sure there were one or 2 games scheduled outside of London this weekend? I reckon they could have continued.

So, had football been cancelled out if respect, or because it had to due to no police? I think both are tame excuses once you actually think about it, personally.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm sure there have been huge events in the UK before that haven't resulted in all football been cancelled? I bet if someone like the President of the US was to visit the UK, it would require a large amount of police, but still doubtful football would be cancelled.

As far as I am aware, the government or police did not ask for football to be cancelled? If they couldn't cope, I'm sure they would have demanded it.

Even if they couldn't cope in London, I'm pretty sure there were one or 2 games scheduled outside of London this weekend? I reckon they could have continued.

So, had football been cancelled out if respect, or because it had to due to no police? I think both are tame excuses once you actually think about it, personally.
		
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All the events listed above are planned well in advance 

The death of the queen wasn't planned, it just was thrust upon the country.

You say oh in London but how many grounds are London alone which use met police who are now busy


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			All the events listed above are planned well in advance 

The death of the queen wasn't planned, it just was thrust upon the country.

You say oh in London but how many grounds are London alone which use met police who are now busy
		
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And yet the police didn't ask for football to be cancelled? I still find it interesting you think they would have struggled, yet it appears it was a decision purely made by FA.

Sure, the Queen passing away wasn't planned. However, surely you must have a pretty low opinion of the police if you feel they would struggle to cope with such unplanned events? I'm pretty sure thet are pretty good at reacting to such things. In fact, was Operation London Bridge not part of the planning of such an event? If so, they've been planning for this for over 60 years I believe. 

It is also not difficult to know where more attention needs to be focused in London. Buckingham Palace would be a good start.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			And yet the police didn't ask for football to be cancelled? I still find it interesting you think they would have struggled, yet it appears it was a decision purely made by FA.

Sure, the Queen passing away wasn't planned. However, surely you must have a pretty low opinion of the police if you feel they would struggle to cope with such unplanned events? I'm pretty sure thet are pretty good at reacting to such things. In fact, was Operation London Bridge not part of the planning of such an event? If so, they've been planning for this for over 60 years I believe.

It is also not difficult to know where more attention needs to be focused in London. Buckingham Palace would be a good start.
		
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operation london bridge may have been planned for over 60 years but you dont exactly arrange coverage for it for the next 60 years.

ive seen it before when the police were too busy to police a game so they got us to close upton park station to make the fans disperse via the streets to the surrounding stations so the crowds (smaller then) would be spread rather than in one place.

*Queen’s funeral will be ‘biggest policing and protective operation the UK has ever mounted’*

lifted from an article , the police are already a lot busier than last weekend.

It would not surprise me if next weekend was cancelled aswell.

*Queen's death: Around 10,000 police officers on duty per day in UK’s biggest security operation*
*Around 10,000 police officers could be on duty every day in London in the lead up to the Queen’s funeral as part of the biggest security operation the country has ever seen.*


I think a lot are underestimating just how major the security efforts will be.. and extra officers dont just appear from london.. it will be from all over the country.


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## JSims (Sep 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			operation london bridge may have been planned for over 60 years but you dont exactly arrange coverage for it for the next 60 years.

ive seen it before when the police were too busy to police a game so they got us to close upton park station to make the fans disperse via the streets to the surrounding stations so the crowds (smaller then) would be spread rather than in one place.

*Queen’s funeral will be ‘biggest policing and protective operation the UK has ever mounted’*

lifted from an article , the police are already a lot busier than last weekend.

It would not surprise me if next weekend was cancelled aswell.

*Queen's death: Around 10,000 police officers on duty per day in UK’s biggest security operation*
*Around 10,000 police officers could be on duty every day in London in the lead up to the Queen’s funeral as part of the biggest security operation the country has ever seen.*


I think a lot are underestimating just how major the security efforts will be.. and extra officers dont just appear from london.. it will be from all over the country.
		
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Given that there's over 40,000 police officers in The Met, that doesn't seem a dramatically huge number.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 10, 2022)

JSims said:



			Given that there's over 40,000 police officers in The Met, that doesn't seem a dramatically huge number.
		
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Well considering rest days, leave and other things are needed 10 days of mourning plus the funeral and 24 hour coverage that 40,000 will be stretched 

So policing all the football ... Low priority


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## JSims (Sep 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well considering rest days, leave and other things are needed 10 days of mourning plus the funeral and 24 hour coverage that 40,000 will be stretched

So policing all the football ... Low priority
		
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An adjustment - 33000 police 9000 support staff. I
And indeed, the are likely to be stretched. But I'm sure there were already plans for such an event.


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## 4LEX (Sep 10, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			According to Twitter the reason football was cancelled is because Celtic & Liverpool fans couldn’t be trusted to show respect 🤷‍♂️
Crazy world we live in 😂
		
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Not sure that's the real reason but I've no doubt they'll be boos at Celtic's next game if theres a silence.


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## JSims (Sep 10, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			According to Twitter the reason football was cancelled is because Celtic & Liverpool fans couldn’t be trusted to show respect 🤷‍♂️
Crazy world we live in 😂
		
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And you believe what you read on Twitter?


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 10, 2022)

JSims said:



			And you believe what you read on Twitter? 

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Nope,that’s why I said it’s a crazy world 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂😂😂🫣


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## Swango1980 (Sep 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well considering rest days, leave and other things are needed 10 days of mourning plus the funeral and 24 hour coverage that 40,000 will be stretched 

So policing all the football ... Low priority
		
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I guess the FA and the government got away with one then.

As far as I read, the government said sport could go ahead, and it was to the discretion of each organisation. I believe the FA said games would be cancelled as a mark of respect. I didn't hear them suggest they could not be policed (although I've no doubt some might throw that about in future to justify the decision, considering all other sport was allowed and the respect excuse no longer washes).

So, if indeed the police forces would have struggled to cope, as you suggest, it seems pure luck the games were called off.


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## 4LEX (Sep 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well considering rest days, leave and other things are needed 10 days of mourning plus the funeral and 24 hour coverage that 40,000 will be stretched

So policing all the football ... Low priority
		
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You don't get many Police at games these days unless it's a Cat C fixture. A lot of games will be Police free.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Not sure that's the real reason but I've no doubt they'll be boos at Celtic's next game if theres a silence.
		
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They can have as many police as they like but if fans want to boo the queen they will do it.
It’s their right to protest as they see fit.
Some might not like it but that’s tough.
Personally think it’s not right , but not everyone loves the queen.


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## 4LEX (Sep 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			They can have as many police as they like but if fans want to boo the queen they will do it.
It’s their right to protest as they see fit.
Some might not like it but that’s tough.
Personally think it’s not right , but not everyone loves the queen.
		
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Reckon Liverpool fans will boo? Given recent history of booing the national anthem at cup finals?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			They can have as many police as they like but if fans want to boo the queen they will do it.
It’s their right to protest as they see fit.
Some might not like it but that’s tough.
Personally think it’s not right , but not everyone loves the queen.
		
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And that’s exactly why it’s right there games were postponed this weekend- the attitude that’s it’s someone’s “right” to boo during a moment of silence.



4LEX said:



			Reckon Liverpool fans will boo? Given recent history of booing the national anthem at cup finals?
		
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They Wouldn’t boo a minutes silence


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## pauljames87 (Sep 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess the FA and the government got away with one then.

As far as I read, the government said sport could go ahead, and it was to the discretion of each organisation. I believe the FA said games would be cancelled as a mark of respect. I didn't hear them suggest they could not be policed (although I've no doubt some might throw that about in future to justify the decision, considering all other sport was allowed and the respect excuse no longer washes).

So, if indeed the police forces would have struggled to cope, as you suggest, it seems pure luck the games were called off.
		
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What the gov say publically and privately are different

Cancel sport officially and they take the cost ala covid ...


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Reckon Liverpool fans will boo? Given recent history of booing the national anthem at cup finals?
		
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Well it seems the FA have briefed the media and whilst they've not stated thats the reason, i think it is as 
 they dont want the backlash from a potential issue.

That said i'm confident a minutes silence would be observed impeccably whether its today or next week, if they tried to enforce singing GSTQ/K then no chance. 

If that is the case then its very poor from the FA/PL.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2022)

4LEX said:



			You don't get many Police at games these days unless it's a Cat C fixture. A lot of games will be Police free.
		
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Not Premier League games


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## pauljames87 (Sep 10, 2022)

@Swango1980

I have had a chance to look more into it now

This weekend over the two days you  had the following teams all playing in london (or areas covered by met police)

Arsenal
West ham
Palace
Chelsea ladies (these 4 all same days)
Fulham (home to chelsea so a derby)
Tottenham ladies
QPR
Watford (believe covered by the met)
Charlton

We also have england at the oval
and ofc golf at wentworth

its also sept 11th weekend which is always a higher alert (as is july 7th and remembrance sunday)

10,000 police a day needed (someone posted 33,000 officers available) numbers over 24 hours coverage, leave, sickness, days off will be thin

I can tell you first hand today the tubes were busy than I had witnessed since before covid.

now how many 1000 fans would be added on top of the numbers of people in london paying respect or going to other events if the football went ahead.. got to be half a million maybe?

I think they made the correct call canceling the games and I strongly believe the police will have put in a request

It would not surprise me if they were cancelled next weekend aswell


quick add, there are also people marching at scotland yard today (well were) because of the person who was killed the other day by the met


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## 4LEX (Sep 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Not Premier League games
		
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Depends on the teams involved and crowd sizes, I appreciate the bigger clubs will always have larger numbers of Police required.

Looking at the fixtures for this weekend in London I'd be surprised if even 200 Police were required and most of those would've been Fulham v Chelsea. Very few risk supporters in London, unlike the last few weeks. Next weekend looks even clearer..


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## theoneandonly (Sep 11, 2022)

Football has made a mistake and we all know it. No amount of excuses can change that now.


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## theoneandonly (Sep 11, 2022)

Talk now of London games being called off next weekend  too.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 11, 2022)

On the BBC site

Some matches could be affected by a lack of resources such as policing, but issues will be resolved on a game by game basis.

🤔 am sure we have had that discussion on here. 👍


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## pauljames87 (Sep 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			On the BBC site

Some matches could be affected by a lack of resources such as policing, but issues will be resolved on a game by game basis.

🤔 am sure we have had that discussion on here. 👍
		
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Yeah apparently it was rubbish

Obviously London will be effect next week, rest of country less so as the queen's coffin will be in London after making her way down slowly 

Then it's all in one place so to speak


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## rudebhoy (Sep 11, 2022)

Rangers v Napoli has been put back 24 hours, away fans now banned from that game and the return fixture. 

As crazy decisions go, that’s got to be right up there. How many fans from both sides are going to be screwed?

Why is it ok for away fans to travel to English sides next week, but not to Ibrox?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 11, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Rangers v Napoli has been put back 24 hours, away fans now banned from that game and the return fixture. 

As crazy decisions go, that’s got to be right up there. How many fans from both sides are going to be screwed?

Why is it ok for away fans to travel to English sides next week, but not to Ibrox?
		
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The reasons given are lack of police available.

As I keep saying..people are seriously under playing how stretched the police will be until the funeral 

Football is an unnecessary distraction


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## rudebhoy (Sep 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The reasons given are lack of police available.

As I keep saying..people are seriously under playing how stretched the police will be until the funeral

Football is an unnecessary distraction
		
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The Queen is being flown from Edinburgh to London on Tuesday, yet there are not enough police to cover a game in Glasgow over 24 hours later?

Meanwhile, Ajax fans are allowed to go Liverpool on Tuesday, Salzburg to Chelsea on Wednesday, Dortmund to Man City on Wednesday, PSV to arsenal on thursday?

Doesn’t make any sense at all, and screws over 2 sets of fans.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 11, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			The Queen is being flown from Edinburgh to London on Tuesday, yet there are not enough police to cover a game in Glasgow over 24 hours later?

Meanwhile, Ajax fans are allowed to go Liverpool on Tuesday, Salzburg to Chelsea on Wednesday, Dortmund to Man City on Wednesday, PSV to arsenal on thursday?

Doesn’t make any sense at all, and screws over 2 sets of fans.
		
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Depends which police force is assisting in London I guess.. or higher security on the day before In Scotland and then the force need a day off so will be less of them about?

There is so much more important things going on right now than football, it will resume after the bank holiday


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## rudebhoy (Sep 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Depends which police force is assisting in London I guess.. or higher security on the day before In Scotland and then the force need a day off so will be less of them about?
		
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The ironic thing is Celtic and Rangers are now playing CL games on the same night. Celtic game kicks off at 17.45, there will be a few thousand Celtic fans watching in City Centre pubs. 50,000 Rangers fans will be making their way to Ibrox for an 8pm kick off. Lots of police needed to make sure there is no bother. 

I seriously doubt so many Strathclyde police are needed in Edinburgh on the Tuesday, but if that is the case, play the game on Thursday and let the away fans come.


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## BrianM (Sep 11, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Rangers v Napoli has been put back 24 hours, away fans now banned from that game and the return fixture.

As crazy decisions go, that’s got to be right up there. How many fans from both sides are going to be screwed?

Why is it ok for away fans to travel to English sides next week, but not to Ibrox?
		
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It’s a shocker, my sister is a forensic scientist for the police in Edinburgh and says they are absolutely flat out.
They would be better cancelling it.
Two wrongs don’t make a right and all that.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 11, 2022)

😳


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2022)

How bizarre that a child born last Sunday has already lived through two monarchs, two prime ministers but, more surprisingly, only two Chelsea managers 🤔


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 12, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			How bizarre that a child born last Sunday has already lived through two monarchs, two prime ministers but, more surprisingly, only two Chelsea managers 🤔
		
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Give it a few months


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Give it a few months 

Click to expand...

if the fixtures had been on last weekend might have been 3


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2022)

Are this weekend's fixtures definitely off as well? Is that confirmed?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Are this weekend's fixtures definitely off as well? Is that confirmed?
		
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Not yet, I don't think. I saw they were going to leave it up to clubs in negotiation with local police. I'd expect London based games to be off, all others on.

On funnier matters, Juventus game yesterday. 2-2, last minute goal to Juventus. Goal scorer takes his shirt of, why, just why, run around gets booked. It's his second yellow so it's a red. The goal gets rules out by VAR . Two more players get sent off in the melee. Game ends 2-2.


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## fundy (Sep 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Are this weekend's fixtures definitely off as well? Is that confirmed?
		
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Nope, Championship and below are resuming from tomorrow, theyre still deciding what to do re premier league games it seems (they may try and move games out of london so the away side plays at home)


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## GB72 (Sep 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Are this weekend's fixtures definitely off as well? Is that confirmed?
		
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Not seen anything official posted. This morning it was being looked at on a more individual basis depending on policing etc with some matches being potentially switched out of London. 


Can see the Spurs match being an issue if there are problems with playing in London as they cannot move it to Leicester as the Tigers are at home that day and both clubs cannot play home matches on the same day.


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## fundy (Sep 12, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Not seen anything official posted. This morning it was being looked at on a more individual basis depending on policing etc with some matches being potentially switched out of London.


Can see the Spurs match being an issue if there are problems with playing in London as they cannot move it to Leicester as the Tigers are at home that day and both clubs cannot play home matches on the same day.
		
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Surely if they switch it they'll just play on Sunday at Leicester?

Brentford v Arsenal most likely off it seems, cant see how they play in London on the Sunday


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## GB72 (Sep 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Surely if they switch it they'll just play on Sunday at Leicester?

Brentford v Arsenal most likely off it seems, cant see how they play in London on the Sunday
		
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Fair point, could play on the Sunday in Leicester.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 12, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not yet, I don't think. I saw they were going to leave it up to clubs in negotiation with local police. I'd expect London based games to be off, all others on.

On funnier matters, Juventus game yesterday. 2-2, last minute goal to Juventus. Goal scorer takes his shirt of, why, just why, run around gets booked. It's his second yellow so it's a red. The goal gets rules out by VAR . Two more players get sent off in the melee. Game ends 2-2.
		
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And I also saw that the goal was wrongly ruled out. VAR made a mistake and the scorer was actually onside.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 12, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			And I also saw that the goal was wrongly ruled out. VAR made a mistake and the scorer was actually onside.
		
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Really? Didn't see it, but just speaking to a mate who did. He said it was definitely offside


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Really? Didn't see it, but just speaking to a mate who did. He said it was definitely offside
		
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I just watched it quickly on Twitter. A guy in an offside position tries to head it in but misses it completely and it goes in anyway from the original header. I don't think his action affected the goalie or any defenders because he was unmarked. So I'd argue he wasn't interfering and the goal should stand. But as he made an effort to _try _and head it - maybe that's enough to be offside now? I don't really know about this rule anymore to be quite honest.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I just watched it quickly on Twitter. A guy in an offside position tries to head it in but misses it completely and it goes in anyway from the original header. I don't think his action affected the goalie or any defenders because he was unmarked. So I'd argue he wasn't interfering and the goal should stand. But as he made an effort to _try _and head it - maybe that's enough to be offside now? I don't really know about this rule anymore to be quite honest.
		
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There was a player on the other side of the pitch playing the Juve player on. He was out of camera shot


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Really? Didn't see it, but just speaking to a mate who did. He said it was definitely offside
		
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A player who was out of camera shot was playing the whole Juve team on from the far side of the pitch. 

Theres a pic on twitter somewhere


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## Beezerk (Sep 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			There was a player on the other side of the pitch playing the Juve player on. He was out of camera shot
		
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Wow 😳


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569086720250990592


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2022)

Haha that is absolutely hilarious. Yet another one in the "it's not VAR it's the idiots using it" column. And they said it was working so much better abroad...


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Haha that is absolutely hilarious. Yet another one in the "it's not VAR it's the idiots using it" column. And they said it was working so much better abroad...
		
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In fairness to the idiot using it, apparently he only had 1 picture available to him and it was from the opposite side that looked  clearly offside 🤷🏼


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			In fairness to the idiot using it, apparently he only had 1 picture available to him and it was from the opposite side that looked  clearly offside 🤷🏼
		
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So he wasn't the idiot but there was an idiot involved in some part of the process.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			So he wasn't the idiot but there was an idiot involved in some part of the process. 

Click to expand...

Too many chiefs and not enough indians😁


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## Piece (Sep 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569086720250990592

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Definitely offside. Look at the corner flag area. He is definitely interfering with play


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## Swango1980 (Sep 12, 2022)

Is that picture reliable? I mean, it is twitter


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 12, 2022)

That all just makes it funnier. I still don't understand why a player takes his shirt off, gets carded. It's mindless.


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## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That all just makes it funnier. I still don't understand why a player takes his shirt off, gets carded. It's mindless.
		
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Agree.. I've always found it a weird response to elation to suddenly remove your clothes. Imagine one of us normal folk sealing an important deal with a client at work and immediately whip your shirt over your head in the office.


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## GB72 (Sep 12, 2022)

OK, a Daily Mail story so could be utter rubbish but reports that Sky could have issues with providing Premier League coverage next week as a number of their outside broadcast trucks have been borrowed by Sky New for the Queens funeral coverage.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2022)

GB72 said:



			OK, a Daily Mail story so could be utter rubbish but reports that Sky could have issues with providing Premier League coverage next week as a number of their outside broadcast trucks have been borrowed by Sky New for the Queens funeral coverage.
		
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If true would be just hilarious given how much they have annoyed fans over the years moving game times


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2022)

@Swango1980 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62874403

you were saying about the police?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 12, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



@Swango1980 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62874403

you were saying about the police?
		
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At no point did I say the police were not going to be busier at specific times, in specific areas. I disagreed that ALL football should be postponed at the weekend. And, at no point did the FA, police or government say that was the reason they were called off.

I see the Chelsea match is still going ahead. And many other matches are being played. You were saying about the police.....?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			At no point did I say the police were not going to be busier at specific times, in specific areas. I disagreed that ALL football should be postponed at the weekend. And, at no point did the FA, police or government say that was the reason they were called off.

I see the Chelsea match is still going ahead. And many other matches are being played. You were saying about the police.....?
		
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Money, champ league over second league comp no doubt coming into play 

Uefa apparently happy with the security for chelsea game ..

You may disagree but the facts have been well published now.

Police from all over the country have been drafted into London .. 

So busier than normal


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## Swango1980 (Sep 12, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Money, champ league over second league comp no doubt coming into play 

Uefa apparently happy with the security for chelsea game ..

You may disagree but the facts have been well published now.

Police from all over the country have been drafted into London .. 

So busier than normal
		
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Is there not a full set of Championship and football league fixtures this week? How can they ge played now, but not the weekend just passed?

Still not sure if PL will be played this weekend, but as far as I am aware it is still scheduled. If policing was such a major issue this weekend just passed, should football chiefs not just cancel all football next weekend now? 

I could understand matches being cancelled last Friday, just to give people a day to watch and process the news. Could also definitely understand cancelled games on day of funeral (although as it happens, there are no matches then).

But, for all the days in between, I still don't get it. It would only make sense if specific games were called off due to specific security issues for that game. 

How many police are required as security at kids football games?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Is there not a full set of Championship and football league fixtures this week? How can they ge played now, but not the weekend just passed?

Still not sure if PL will be played this weekend, but as far as I am aware it is still scheduled. If policing was such a major issue this weekend just passed, should football chiefs not just cancel all football next weekend now? 

I could understand matches being cancelled last Friday, just to give people a day to watch and process the news. Could also definitely understand cancelled games on day of funeral (although as it happens, there are no matches then).

But, for all the days in between, I still don't get it. It would only make sense if specific games were called off due to specific security issues for that game. 

How many police are required as security at kids football games?
		
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Kids football was silly I agree. However once the fa took that stance they run the lot and have to appear consistent.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 12, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not yet, I don't think. I saw they were going to leave it up to clubs in negotiation with local police. I'd expect London based games to be off, all others on.

On funnier matters, Juventus game yesterday. 2-2, last minute goal to Juventus. Goal scorer takes his shirt of, why, just why, run around gets booked. It's his second yellow so it's a red. The goal gets rules out by VAR . Two more players get sent off in the melee. Game ends 2-2.
		
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Have you seen the VAR decision where the VAR Official missed a player on the pitch and ruled a goal offside. The player was near the corner flag and they never saw him. 😂😂


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## fundy (Sep 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			In fairness to the idiot using it, apparently he only had 1 picture available to him and it was from the opposite side that looked  clearly offside 🤷🏼
		
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*Get Italian Football News* @_GIFN
1m


The Italian Referees Association has stated that these images were not available to the VAR, who never saw that Antonio Candreva was playing everyone onside when Arek Milik scored.


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## fundy (Sep 12, 2022)

Have to love the inconsistency, the met are ok with policing Chelsea at home in the CL and Millwall v QPR on the Wednesday night but cant cover Arsenal v PSV Thursday


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## Swango1980 (Sep 12, 2022)

fundy said:



*Get Italian Football News* @_GIFN
1m


The Italian Referees Association has stated that these images were not available to the VAR, who never saw that Antonio Candreva was playing everyone onside when Arek Milik scored.
		
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Still not seen it, just the image on this forum. However, if that is true, it is scandalous. Surely VAR, when used for offside, uses cameras that scan the full width of the pitch!????? How on earth can they be used if they don't?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 12, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Have you seen the VAR decision where the VAR Official missed a player on the pitch and ruled a goal offside. The player was near the corner flag and they never saw him. 😂😂
		
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Yes, it was in the Juventus match I mentioned. It wasn't highlighted on the sports news channels, when I posted, they missed that. What a finish to the game


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## fundy (Sep 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Still not seen it, just the image on this forum. However, if that is true, it is scandalous. Surely VAR, when used for offside, uses cameras that scan the full width of the pitch!????? How on earth can they be used if they don't?
		
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well in Italy last night they only checked the width of the box!


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Have to love the inconsistency, the met are ok with policing Chelsea at home in the CL and Millwall v QPR on the Wednesday night but cant cover Arsenal v PSV Thursday
		
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If the aid demands on Wednesday can be met, but from Thursday onwards they cannot then it’s nothing to do with inconsistency, simply a case of not having enough available manpower to fulfill all the demands.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 12, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Have you seen the VAR decision where the VAR Official missed a player on the pitch and ruled a goal offside. The player was near the corner flag and they never saw him. 😂😂
		
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Oh the joys of joining a discussion 5 hrs behind everyone else 😁


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## Tashyboy (Sep 12, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yes, it was in the Juventus match I mentioned. It wasn't highlighted on the sports news channels, when I posted, they missed that. What a finish to the game 

Click to expand...

have just posted re this 😖😂


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## Tashyboy (Sep 12, 2022)

Had a rattle with daughter Tash earlier on. She is a Bobby. The Met police are requesting help for Monday. They are short of staff, very short.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2022)

fundy said:



*Get Italian Football News* @_GIFN
1m


The Italian Referees Association has stated that these images were not available to the VAR, who never saw that Antonio Candreva was playing everyone onside when Arek Milik scored.
		
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What was the linesman doing ?
Does he have a link to VAR or just the ref.
That’s pretty poor.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Had a rattle with daughter Tash earlier on. She is a Bobby. The Met police are requesting help for Monday. They are short of staff, very short.
		
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Prob why man u Vs Leeds is off.. almost like something is going on in the outside world


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## Swango1980 (Sep 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Prob why man u Vs Leeds is off.. almost like something is going on in the outside world
		
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All the more evidence that is was a rash decision to call games off last weekend.

Absolutely no issue with individual games being called off due to security issues, like the 2 games this weekend. It simply becomes a necessity.

But, now you have 4 teams in PL who will need to squeeze in 2 fixtures later in season (3 of those teams who also compete in Europe, are often expected to do OK in cups and have a lot of international players who will probably go to World Cup). Along with the 16 teams who have the one game to squeeze in.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			All the more evidence that is was a rash decision to call games off last weekend.

Absolutely no issue with individual games being called off due to security issues, like the 2 games this weekend. It simply becomes a necessity.

But, now you have 4 teams in PL who will need to squeeze in 2 fixtures later in season (3 of those teams who also compete in Europe, are often expected to do OK in cups and have a lot of international players who will probably go to World Cup). Along with the 16 teams who have the one game to squeeze in.
		
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It almost like there are more important things in life than football?


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## Swango1980 (Sep 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			It almost like there are more important things in life than football?
		
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Again, I'm not really sure what you are getting at. At what point have I suggested events should be cancelled FOR the sake of football? I haven't. I have also said specific games must be called off if there are security issues.

I have more right to throw that statement at you. The passing of the Monarch is a huge event. However, it is almost like nothing else in life exists to some people. Had the games been played last weekend, all these more important events in life would still have proceeded.  

PS. I should revise my previous post. 5 PL teams need to squeeze in 2 extra fixtures. I forgot about Arsenal's CL being postponed.


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## Neilds (Sep 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			All the more evidence that is was a rash decision to call games off last weekend.

Absolutely no issue with individual games being called off due to security issues, like the 2 games this weekend. It simply becomes a necessity.

But, now you have 4 teams in PL who will need to squeeze in 2 fixtures later in season (3 of those teams who also compete in Europe, are often expected to do OK in cups and have a lot of international players who will probably go to World Cup). Along with the 16 teams who have the one game to squeeze in.
		
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At the end of the 20/21 season Rotherham United played 12 games between 2 Apr and 8 May , some gaps were only 2 days. Would any of the premier teams be forced to play anything like this?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Again, I'm not really sure what you are getting at. At what point have I suggested events should be cancelled FOR the sake of football? I haven't. I have also said specific games must be called off if there are security issues.

I have more right to throw that statement at you. The passing of the Monarch is a huge event. However, it is almost like nothing else in life exists to some people. Had the games been played last weekend, all these more important events in life would still have proceeded.  

PS. I should revise my previous post. 5 PL teams need to squeeze in 2 extra fixtures. I forgot about Arsenal's CL being postponed.
		
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These things can and will be worked out at some point..it may but tight but these things happen.

The police are stretched it's a simple fact. As others on here have said officers from all over the country have been drafted in to London and I'm sure Scotland needed some assistance whilst they paid their respects.

The sheer number of games in London last weekend was unmanageable

From Wednesday people have been advised travel in London will be rammed until the funeral 

There is no doubt at all that this weekend having football crowds would have only added to the problems of the police right now


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## Swango1980 (Sep 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			These things can and will be worked out at some point..it may but tight but these things happen.

The police are stretched it's a simple fact. As others on here have said officers from all over the country have been drafted in to London and I'm sure Scotland needed some assistance whilst they paid their respects.

The sheer number of games in London last weekend was unmanageable

From Wednesday people have been advised travel in London will be rammed until the funeral 

There is no doubt at all that this weekend having football crowds would have only added to the problems of the police right now
		
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From Wednesday? I'm talking about last weekend. And, we simply cannot day police cannot cope in a general sense. Otherwise they wouldn't be planning the other 7 PL games next weekend (would have been 8 if not for Brighton game)


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## Swango1980 (Sep 13, 2022)

Neilds said:



			At the end of the 20/21 season Rotherham United played 12 games between 2 Apr and 8 May , some gaps were only 2 days. Would any of the premier teams be forced to play anything like this?
		
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Who knows. No idea how many free dates are available, and could be dependent on how clubs do in cups. If a club did what Liverpool last year, and stay in all the cups until the end, I'm guessing it will he tough


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## Neilds (Sep 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who knows. No idea how many free dates are available, and could be dependent on how clubs do in cups. If a club did what Liverpool last year, and stay in all the cups until the end, I'm guessing it will he tough
		
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It was a rhetorical question as we all no there is no way that the premier league would play more than 3 games a week and then only in extreme circumstances. They certainly wouldn’t play every 3 days for a month


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## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			From Wednesday? I'm talking about last weekend. And, we simply cannot day police cannot cope in a general sense. Otherwise they wouldn't be planning the other 7 PL games next weekend (would have been 8 if not for Brighton game)
		
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Take note of where the other 7 games are. All nicely spread around the country.

Last weekend they weren't.

The entire 10 day mourning is just that. It increases security risk and police work load until after the funeral.

To say oh the games should have been played is for one entitled and two completely ignoring the bigger picture.

Again.

There is more to life than football.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Take note of where the other 7 games are. All nicely spread around the country.

Last weekend they weren't.

The entire 10 day mourning is just that. It increases security risk and police work load until after the funeral.

*To say oh the games should have been played is for one entitled and two completely ignoring the bigger picture.*

*Again.*

*There is more to life than football.*

Click to expand...


What a load of rubbish. Cancelling football matches affects a lot more people than you think. It isnt just about 90 min game of football.

Local businesses, pubs, food outlets, taxis etc lose gauranteed income.

Local people who are employed on a casual basis (ie matchdays only) and rely on that income for their weekly shopping etc.

People who have lost money on flights, accomodation, train tickets etc

Foodbank donations will be massively down

Do we really need 10 days of mourning? I get the history of it all etc but cancelling everything is a joke.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			What a load of rubbish. Cancelling football matches affects a lot more people than you think. It isnt just about 90 min game of football.

Local businesses, pubs, food outlets, taxis etc lose gauranteed income.

*Local people who are employed on a casual basis (ie matchdays only) and rely on that income for their weekly shopping etc.*

People who have lost money on flights, accomodation, train tickets etc

Foodbank domations will be massively down

Do we really need 10 days of mourning? I get the history of it all etc but cancelling everything is a joke.
		
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https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ll-news/man-city-news-premier-league-24985747

City paid its workers for the days wage lost.

All perishable food was given to food banks.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ll-news/man-city-news-premier-league-24985747

City paid its workers for the days wage lost.

All perishable food was given to food banks.
		
Click to expand...

Thats a great touch from a multi billion pound company. Football clubs wont lose out.

My point was more about local businesses who rely on matchday incomes and cant afford to pay their staff or give away perishable food.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Thats a great touch from a multi billion pound company. Football clubs wont lose out.

My point was more about local businesses who rely on matchday incomes and cant afford to pay their staff or give away perishable food.
		
Click to expand...

Stu I completely agree on the subject of local businesses and I agree that things don't need canceling for the sake of paying respect 

However on the side of safety policing said events because the police are stretched to their limits then I do think correct decision


----------



## Slime (Sep 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who knows. No idea how many free dates are available, and could be dependent on how clubs do in cups. *If a club did what Liverpool did last year, and stay in all the cups until the end, I'm guessing it will he tough*

Click to expand...

They are all elite athletes in large squads, they have no excuses, in my opinion.
It'll be hard work, but I'm sure they will cope.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Stu I completely agree on the subject of local businesses and I agree that things don't need canceling for the sake of paying respect

However on the side of safety policing said events because the police are stretched to their limits then I do think correct decision
		
Click to expand...

To suggest people who think football should go ahead as "Entitled and failing to see the bigger picture" is wrong.

Yes the police are stretched, with an increase of visitors etc, its the inconsistencies of certain games getting cancelled and others staying on. 

i think it's more about Sky's lack of resources than the Met.

As it happens we'll be in London sunday as my missus and daughter are goin The Albert Hall for a show.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			To suggest people who think football should go ahead as "Entitled and failing to see the bigger picture" is wrong.

Yes the police are stretched, with an increase of visitors etc, its the inconsistencies of certain games getting cancelled and others staying on.

i think it's more about Sky's lack of resources than the Met.

As it happens we'll be in London sunday as my missus and daughter are goin The Albert Hall for a show.
		
Click to expand...

however the behavior of crowds for the albert hall dont need the police


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2022)

Slime said:



*They are all elite athletes in large squads, they have no excuses, in my opinion.*
It'll be hard work, but I'm sure they will cope.
		
Click to expand...

But they're not machines. 

With a shorter holiday period and less time to recover inbetween games, i disagree  with your opinion.


----------



## Neilds (Sep 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			But they're not machines.

With a shorter holiday period and less time to recover inbetween games, i disagree  with your opinion.
		
Click to expand...

There is no need to worry about the top teams being in the domestic cups as they always put out the reserves anyway so you can't really count these as extra games.  Also, how many teams are using their extra substitutes 'properly' to rotate players instead of waiting until the 93rd minute to try and waste some more time.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			All the more evidence that is was a rash decision to call games off last weekend.

Absolutely no issue with individual games being called off due to security issues, like the 2 games this weekend. It simply becomes a necessity.

But, now you have 4 teams in PL who will need to squeeze in 2 fixtures later in season (3 of those teams who also compete in Europe, are often expected to do OK in cups and have a lot of international players who will probably go to World Cup). Along with the 16 teams who have the one game to squeeze in.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2022)

Neilds said:



			There is no need to worry about the top teams being in the domestic cups as they always put out the reserves anyway so you can't really count these as extra games.  *Also, how many teams are using their extra substitutes 'properly' to rotate players instead of waiting until the 93rd minute to try and waste some more time*.
		
Click to expand...

I've not noticed anything out of the ordinary tbh


----------



## road2ruin (Sep 13, 2022)

My main issue with postponing some and not others is that it's completely ballsed up my fantasy week! Squad is decimated so have to make a decision between wildcarding, free hit or taking a hit on points......decisions, decisions.....


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2022)

road2ruin said:



			My main issue with postponing some and not others is that it's completely ballsed up my fantasy week! Squad is decimated so have to make a decision between wildcarding, free hit or taking a hit on points......decisions, decisions.....
		
Click to expand...


I was planning on wildcarding next week, brought it forward a week. Side still looks horrendous lol


----------



## road2ruin (Sep 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			I was planning on wildcarding next week, brought it forward a week. Side still looks horrendous lol
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, mine was similar. At present it's either bring forward a week or take a -4 to get an 11 out and then WC as planned in the next week.


----------



## Jimaroid (Sep 13, 2022)

Quite an interesting development following that Juventus VAR howler.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569638680238637056


----------



## Swango1980 (Sep 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Take note of where the other 7 games are. All nicely spread around the country.

Last weekend they weren't.

The entire 10 day mourning is just that. It increases security risk and police work load until after the funeral.

To say oh the games should have been played is for one entitled and two completely ignoring the bigger picture.

Again.

There is more to life than football.
		
Click to expand...

There is no ignoring of the bigger picture. As I said before, the cancelling of last weekends fixtures was purely to pay tribute to the Queen. You are the only one suggesting it was required due to lack of policing. Not the police, the government or the FA were saying this.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			There is no ignoring of the bigger picture. As I said before, the cancelling of last weekends fixtures was purely to pay tribute to the Queen. You are the only one suggesting it was required due to lack of policing. Not the police, the government or the FA were saying this.
		
Click to expand...

As I've said. What is put out officially and actually said privately is too different situations.

But hey.. play the games .. sure nothing bad will happen


----------



## Swango1980 (Sep 13, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			As I've said. What is put out officially and actually said privately is too different situations.

But hey.. play the games .. sure nothing bad will happen
		
Click to expand...

We'll see then, when they play all the games midweek, and the 7 PL games this weekend


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			We'll see then, when they play all the games midweek, and the 7 PL games this weekend
		
Click to expand...

Again look at locations of the games.. how many were in one area at once 

Much more spread now.

Plus a lot of the ones in same location at least one of them is off.


----------



## theoneandonly (Sep 13, 2022)

Some  good  times to watch in the CL today. I'd imagine there'll be a lot of focus on Liverpool and hoping they behave during the national anthem if it gets played.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Some  good  times to watch in the CL today. I'd imagine there'll be a lot of focus on Liverpool and hoping they behave during the national anthem if it gets played.
		
Click to expand...

It won’t get played. I’m confident the minutes silence will be respected by everyone inside the ground.


----------



## theoneandonly (Sep 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It won’t get played. I’m confident the minutes silence will be respected by everyone inside the ground.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd say so too.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 13, 2022)

Mendy cleared of one count of rape.
Only another 7 to go.


----------



## Fade and Die (Sep 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It won’t get played. I’m confident the minutes silence will be respected by everyone inside the ground.
		
Click to expand...

I’m confident it wouldn’t be……

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sport...ws-story/81aa4f98472b1bef1b601219ef8dfa07?amp


----------



## adam6177 (Sep 13, 2022)

Great finish to the Sporting game.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 13, 2022)

Absolute robbery. Boss the game for 89 minutes but we don't seem to know how to create chances other than crossing it. Then just give them a couple of goals at the end for a laugh. How easy was the nutmeg on Royal for the 2nd? That guy is a joke of a player.


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2022)

Boss the game lol. Looked utterly clueless going forward as Sporting gave you nothing to counter, and then they created and took their chances. Most enjoyable


----------



## Jensen (Sep 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Boss the game lol. Looked utterly clueless going forward as Sporting gave you nothing to counter, and then they created and took their chances. Most enjoyable 

Click to expand...

That’s why I’m not a fan of counter attacking football, it’s so restrictive and reliant on the opposition


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2022)

Jensen said:



			That’s why I’m not a fan of counter attacking football, it’s so restrictive and reliant on the opposition
		
Click to expand...

yep, not everyones as generous as Arteta was against United


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Boss the game lol. Looked utterly clueless going forward as Sporting gave you nothing to counter, and then they created and took their chances. Most enjoyable 

Click to expand...

It's not to say that we played amazingly, as I said we struggled creatively. But Sporting never looked like scoring until a minute from time. Other than that one run by Edwards (and don't get me started on the commentators bigging him up ridiculously).


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It's not to say that we played amazingly, as I said we struggled creatively. But Sporting never looked like scoring until a minute from time. Other than that one run by Edwards (and don't get me started on the commentators bigging him up ridiculously).
		
Click to expand...


thats what we used to say about Serge Gnabry..............


----------



## theoneandonly (Sep 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It won’t get played. I’m confident the minutes silence will be respected by everyone inside the ground.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly not the case.


----------



## JonnyGutteridge (Sep 13, 2022)

BT Sport dulled the microphones and it was still audible. The fact the referee cut it short says it all. Lovely bunch


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2022)

JonnyGutteridge said:



			BT Sport dulled the microphones and it was still audible. The fact the referee cut it short says it all. Lovely bunch
		
Click to expand...

It wasn’t cut short 🤷‍♂️


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569764587309785088


----------



## Fade and Die (Sep 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It wasn’t cut short 🤷‍♂️


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569764587309785088

Click to expand...

I’m reading they managed just 25 seconds before the ref cut it short. Is that wrong?


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It wasn’t cut short 🤷‍♂️


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569764587309785088

Click to expand...

difference of opinion


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569763563312672768


----------



## Fade and Die (Sep 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It wasn’t cut short 🤷‍♂️


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569764587309785088

Click to expand...

If Henry wants to know what impeccable means he should look at the beginning of the West Ham game last Thursday. West Ham fans and what seemed like half the population of Bucharest absolutely silent. Then a rendition of GSTQ. 

Still the Liverpool obsessed media will spin it as a positive. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## BiMGuy (Sep 13, 2022)

Shock the scousers couldn’t show some respect.


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 13, 2022)

JonnyGutteridge said:



			BT Sport dulled the microphones and it was still audible. The fact the referee cut it short says it all. Lovely bunch
		
Click to expand...

Complete scruffs.


----------



## Slime (Sep 13, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Shock, the scousers couldn’t show some respect.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure those on here would.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			difference of opinion


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569763563312672768

Click to expand...

It felt like a minute but if it was cut short then it’s poor - a very small bunch of beyond stupid idiots tried to disturb it but were told to shut up 

But I guess it gives people the excuse now to lump everyone in together 

Those idiots that attempted to disturb it will have to keep quiet in future when other fans disturb minutes of silence for other events. Always a shame when the very small minority spoil it


----------



## Bamberdele2.0 (Sep 13, 2022)

A 25 second minutes silence from Anfield.

Disgraceful


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2022)

While I respect peoples right to protest.
I think it’s not the time or place tonight.
Ref did well to cut it short.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It felt like a minute but if it was cut short then it’s poor - a very small bunch of beyond stupid idiots tried to disturb it but were told to shut up

But I guess it gives people the excuse now to lump everyone in together

Those idiots that attempted to disturb it will have to keep quiet in future when other fans disturb minutes of silence for other events. Always a shame when the very small minority spoil it
		
Click to expand...

So first it wasn’t cut short,now it’s just a very small bunch 🤷‍♂️
Phil you haven’t a clue,you’re sat at home basing everything on social media reports & believing all the pro Liverpool ones.

If this was England fans,or any other fans you’d be outraged & wouldn’t be able to write your post on here quick enough.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Sep 13, 2022)

I feel it is a sign of weakness that The FA or whoever decided not to show respect and play OUR National Anthem.

Why should one Club be exempt when I estimate in excess of 95% of Liverpool fans would have respected  The Anthem.

it is unjust that minority rule and this will be the talking point from the evening.


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			I feel it is a sign of weakness that The FA or whoever decided not to show respect and play OUR National Anthem.

Why should one Club be exempt when I estimate in excess of 95% of Liverpool fans would have respected  The Anthem.

it is unjust that minority rule and this will be the talking point from the evening.
		
Click to expand...


Think its UEFA who have refused all the British clubs requests to play it, not the FA this time


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## Yorkhacker (Sep 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But I guess it gives people the excuse now to lump everyone in together
		
Click to expand...

Everybody does it. See post #24045 on page 1203 of this thread.


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## theoneandonly (Sep 13, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Everybody does it. See post #24045 on page 1203 of this thread.
		
Click to expand...

At least post a link 😂 thats just too much clicking , but I guess it's just someones rank hypocrisy anyway 🤣🤣🤣
Ah I found the jump to page button .


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 13, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Everybody does it. See post #24045 on page 1203 of this thread.
		
Click to expand...

Wow, that's some memory you have there good sir 😅


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			Everybody does it. See post #24045 on page 1203 of this thread.
		
Click to expand...

The post says - Chelsea fans chanted Abramovich over the Ukraine minutes silence 🤷‍♂️

https://www.republicworld.com/amp/s...chant-roman-abramovichs-name-articleshow.html


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2022)

In other news, unconvincing late win win for Liverpool lol


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			In other news, unconvincing late win win for Liverpool lol
		
Click to expand...

A wins a win.
We deserved it 23 shots to 3 
We didn’t have the strikers on it.
But credit Ajax they defended very well.

Thought the ref had forgotten his cards at the start of the second half.


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			A wins a win.
*We deserved it* 23 shots to 3
We didn’t have the strikers on it.
But credit Ajax they defended very well.

Thought the ref had forgotten his cards at the start of the second half.
		
Click to expand...


Dont you start, you sound like a Spurs fan 

Ref was typical for this season, try not to give cards then allow time wasting and pretend that he will add it on rather than book players


----------



## Yorkhacker (Sep 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The post says - Chelsea fans chanted Abramovich over the Ukraine minutes silence 🤷‍♂️

https://www.republicworld.com/amp/s...chant-roman-abramovichs-name-articleshow.html

Click to expand...

So you're complaining that all Liverpool fans are being lumped in together, but you were happy to lump all Chelsea fans in together 🤔


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Dont you start, you sound like a Spurs fan 

Ref was typical for this season, try not to give cards then allow time wasting and pretend that he will add it on rather than book players
		
Click to expand...

I have never been so insulted


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I have never been so insulted

Click to expand...


haha 

sorry was a very low blow!!!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2022)

Yorkhacker said:



			So you're complaining that all Liverpool fans are being lumped in together, but you were happy to lump all Chelsea fans in together 🤔
		
Click to expand...

I would like to think we’re all reasonable people on here.
We know every club has morons who let the club down .
But still argue who’s the worst.


----------



## Yorkhacker (Sep 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would like to think we’re all reasonable people on here.
We know every club has morons who let the club down .
But still argue who’s the worst.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Some people like to bring the bad behaviour of other clubs fans to everybody's attention while complaining that people are focusing on the small minority at their own club, as evidenced by posts #24045 and #31025


----------



## Rlburnside (Sep 13, 2022)

Jensen said:



			That’s why I’m not a fan of counter attacking football, it’s so restrictive and reliant on the opposition
		
Click to expand...

I would agree that Spurs are not a good watch when we sit back to deep and rely on counter attacking football. 

But tonight wasn’t like that we pressed them high up the pitch from early on and they looked very vulnerable trying to play out from the back. 

Our downfall was not creating anything going forward, sucker blow at the end of a game we shouldn’t have lost.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2022)

I have never been so disgusted. 

It was to my ears no more than 6 people, 6 too many btw,  who tried to disrupt the minutes silence, it was shouted down by many which probably made it sound worse than what it was. 

There's no defending it and i hope Liverpool Football Club find the culprits and ban them for life.   

Disrespecting a minutes silence is beyond the pale. No excuses.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569700834170003457
oh dear - the one area Premier League doesn’t need to learn from is US Sports 

was thinking though in regards North vs South who would be your team but you can only pick 3 from the same team 

North 

Pickford

Trippier
Vvd
Varane
Cancelo

Kdb
Thiago
Casemiro

Salah
Haaland 
Rashford

South 

Mendy

James
Saliba
Dunk
Zinchenko

Rice
Maddison
Mount

Zaha
Kane
Jesus


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2022)

👏👏

No idea why the silence was cut short at City when you could hear a pin drop or do they just not do a minute anymore ?


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 14, 2022)

The banners at the Celtic game, wow some people really are the dregs of the earth 😳


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 44326

👏👏

No idea why the silence was cut short at City when you could hear a pin drop or do they just not do a minute anymore ?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure why.
But good see them respect it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 14, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			The banners at the Celtic game, wow some people really are the dregs of the earth 😳
		
Click to expand...

They’ll be right proud of it aswell 😬


----------



## 3offTheTee (Sep 14, 2022)

What a player and not a bad team!


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 14, 2022)

😳 stones
😳😳Haaland


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			oh dear - the one area Premier League doesn’t need to learn from is US Sports

was thinking though in regards North vs South who would be your team but you can only pick 3 from the same team

North

Pickford

Trippier
Vvd
Varane
Cancelo

Kdb
Thiago
Casemiro

Salah
Haaland
Rashford

South

Mendy

James
Saliba
Dunk
Zinchenko

Rice
Maddison
Mount

Zaha
Kane
Jesus
		
Click to expand...

Midlands count as south? I suppose that's fair.

Pope
Trent VVD Varane Cancelo
KDB Casemiro Bruno G
Salah Haaland St.Maximin

Martinez
James Romero Koulibaly Zinchenko
Neves Kante Rice
Jesus Kane Son
​North wins it of course.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 15, 2022)

Well, that's horrible I'm afraid. I guess they're trying to recapture the Euro 96 vibe with the light blue but there's way too much of it.


----------



## Piece (Sep 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569700834170003457
oh dear - the one area Premier League doesn’t need to learn from is US Sports
		
Click to expand...

What about East v West?


----------



## Piece (Sep 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 44333


Well, that's horrible I'm afraid. I guess they're trying to recapture the Euro 96 vibe with the light blue but there's way too much of it.
		
Click to expand...

It's a NO from me. The Nike football is very good though.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 15, 2022)

It's almost a bit 1982







It looks like a training shirt rather than the actual playing kit.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's almost a bit 1982







It looks like a training shirt rather than the actual playing kit.
		
Click to expand...




Orikoru said:



View attachment 44333


Well, that's horrible I'm afraid. I guess they're trying to recapture the Euro 96 vibe with the light blue but there's way too much of it.
		
Click to expand...

Its Scotland’s new away kit.
England kit has to have Red as well


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 15, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Its Scotland’s new away kit.
England kit has to have Red as well

Click to expand...

Does Harry have a Scottish gran?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does Harry have a Scottish gran? 

Click to expand...

I would rather he did


----------



## BiMGuy (Sep 15, 2022)

This should have been an England kit
It’s still my favourite England top


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 15, 2022)

No idea how Shaw warrants a call-up when there's 6 full backs and he doesn't even play for his club. Usual muttering about Maguire as well - wasting our breath at this point obviously.

I don't think there's anyone who's _not_ there who should be though.


----------



## fundy (Sep 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 44339


No idea how Shaw warrants a call-up when there's 6 full backs and he doesn't even play for his club. Usual muttering about Maguire as well - wasting our breath at this point obviously.

*I don't think there's anyone who's not there who should be though*.
		
Click to expand...


Do well to be, hes picked 28 players!!!!!

Youd think the World Cup squad comes from these plus Pickford, Rashford and Sancho now. Looks like the ship has sailed for White and Gallagher


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			Do well to be, hes picked 28 players!!!!!

Youd think the World Cup squad comes from these plus Pickford, Rashford and Sancho now. Looks like the ship has sailed for White and Gallagher
		
Click to expand...

Do you think Sancho has done enough to be included? I haven't seen any great reason to pick him so far.


----------



## fundy (Sep 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think Sancho has done enough to be included? I haven't seen any great reason to pick him so far.
		
Click to expand...


Not particularly but expect the door isnt shut if he has a handful of good games for United before the WC squad is announced

Plenty in that 28 you could argue arent in the greatest of form (including several likely starters under Southgate)


----------



## BiMGuy (Sep 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 44339


No idea how Shaw warrants a call-up when there's 6 full backs and he doesn't even play for his club. Usual muttering about Maguire as well - wasting our breath at this point obviously.

I don't think there's anyone who's _not_ there who should be though.
		
Click to expand...

Good to see Toni called up.

White must be annoyed seeing Maguire selected. 

I thought Jack Harrison might have had a go as he’s been excellent this season.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 15, 2022)

It's good to see Southgate is still picking on club form.....
So much for being different from his predecessors and not just picking his buddies.


----------



## fundy (Sep 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think Sancho has done enough to be included? I haven't seen any great reason to pick him so far.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Slime (Sep 15, 2022)

Just got in from a round of golf.
For the 1st,





and for the 2nd,


----------



## Blue in Munich (Sep 15, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It's good to see Southgate is still picking on club form.....
So much for being different from his predecessors and not just picking his buddies.
		
Click to expand...

No he’s not, Mount is in there.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 15, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570354157487259648
😂😂😂


----------



## yandabrown (Sep 15, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570354157487259648
😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Excellent, was that from the Blundersliga?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 16, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			Excellent, was that from the Blundersliga?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 16, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			Excellent, was that from the Blundersliga?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, looks like Mainz 05 vs Munchengladbach. This video was actually from 2017, but that goalie is still at Mainz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Zentner

Edit: Sorry it's early I just realised you were making a pun.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 16, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			Excellent, was that from the Blundersliga?
		
Click to expand...




Orikoru said:



			Yeah, looks like Mainz 05 vs Munchengladbach. This video was actually from 2017, but that goalie is still at Mainz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Zentner

Edit: Sorry it's early I just realised you were making a pun. 

Click to expand...

Fair play, I didn't see that either. Well played @yandabrown


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fair play, I didn't see that either. Well played @yandabrown 

Click to expand...

Me neither 🤦‍♂️
Hadn’t had my coffee


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## theoneandonly (Sep 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 44326

👏👏

No idea why the silence was cut short at City when you could hear a pin drop or do they just not do a minute anymore ?
		
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I think it was never billed as minutes silence same as the Liverpool game, we must assume it would be.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 16, 2022)

Forest finding it tough going so far. We're never getting that extra MGW cash.


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## fundy (Sep 16, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Forest finding it tough going so far. We're never getting that extra MGW cash.
		
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More gel needed!!! Losing to the other 2 promoted sides back to back definitely not optimal

Do you get MGW back on the cheap if they go down?


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## Piece (Sep 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			More gel needed!!! Losing to the other 2 promoted sides back to back definitely not optimal
		
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Perhaps they didn't buy enough in the transfer window?

😉


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## fundy (Sep 17, 2022)

Goals at Molineux since April: Man City - 8 Wolves - 4


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## Bazzatron (Sep 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			Goals at Molineux since April: Man City - 8 Wolves - 4  

Click to expand...

KDB is still top goal scorer there too...for 2022.


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## nickjdavis (Sep 17, 2022)

Frustrating afternoon at St. James Pk.

Slow and lethargic performance from Newcastle against a well organised hard working Bournemouth team. Imagination and creativity somewhat lacking today and Bournemouth were happy to let us play the ball out wide and defend crosses. Even when Newcastle got behind the Bournemouth defence they were alive to the cut back and Newcastle forwards seemingly failed to realise they needed to get across the front of the keeper who claimed many crosses close to the near post.

Unfortunately, when we struggle, there isn't a great deal to come from the bench. Players like Longstaff and Murphy sadly do not offer any improvement nor any spark. Murphy, if anything, did his best to run away from the ball instead of showing for it and trying to beat players. When we finally brought Wood on in the 89th minute we still continued to try to find our way through the middle and when the ball was played out wide there was a reluctance to send it into the box....no one seemingly willing to take on the responsibility of trying anything save for a few wild blasts from range.

Definitely a frustrating performance that shows the team is crying out for more depth and some creative quality in midfield, but Bournemouth do deserve some credit for their work rate and organisation.

Hopefully most supporters will realise that Rome wasn't built in a day, but it was somewhat disconcerting to hear boos at the final whistle....seemingly many have chosen to forget the bleak times under Ashley where ambition was a non existent concept. 

Well observed minutes silence before the game.


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## fundy (Sep 17, 2022)

And youd think that will be the end of Rodgers time at Leicester.

Stunning from Son albeit against a non existent defense


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## Piece (Sep 17, 2022)

I'd say Brendan will be sacked before he's had his post match shower 😱😄


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## Jensen (Sep 17, 2022)

fundy said:



			And youd think that will be the end of Rodgers time at Leicester.

Stunning from Son albeit against a non existent defense
		
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I’ll probably get criticised by Orikoru, but at 3-2 I didn’t think Spurs were that great. I thought we were sloppy with misplaced balls and poor control. Hojberg pressed well, but the score was flattering.
I also thought we looked nervous. 
I know it’s a win but to me the performance is just as important, I guess personally I’ve not bought into the Conte style. I think the results are papering over some cracks.
We’ve got some good players, but we sadly miss a creative player to put his foot on the ball and link up.
Davidson Sanchez is a liability and a complete joke.
All this from normally a non cynical Spurs fan


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## fundy (Sep 17, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I’ll probably get criticised by Orikoru, but at 3-2 I didn’t think Spurs were that great. I thought we were sloppy with misplaced balls and poor control. Hojberg pressed well, but the score was flattering.
I also thought we looked nervous.
I know it’s a win but to me the performance is just as important, I guess personally I’ve not bought into the Conte style. I think the results are papering over some cracks.
We’ve got some good players, but we sadly miss a creative player to put his foot on the ball and link up.
Davidson Sanchez is a liability and a complete joke.
All this from normally a non cynical Spurs fan
		
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Seems fair enough to me, thought you were sloppy for an hour until Son came on and helped himself in style. Didnt understand playing both Perisic and Sessegnon as the wing backs either.

You will definitely look better against sides that try and take the game to you and leave themselves open to being counter attacked, sadly your next opponents are very likely to play into Contes hands


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## Orikoru (Sep 17, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I’ll probably get criticised by Orikoru, but at 3-2 I didn’t think Spurs were that great. I thought we were sloppy with misplaced balls and poor control. Hojberg pressed well, but the score was flattering.
I also thought we looked nervous.
I know it’s a win but to me the performance is just as important, I guess personally I’ve not bought into the Conte style. I think the results are papering over some cracks.
We’ve got some good players, but we sadly miss a creative player to put his foot on the ball and link up.
Davidson Sanchez is a liability and a complete joke.
All this from normally a non cynical Spurs fan
		
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Don't disagree! At half time the game was very much in the balance, and 3-2 didn't really change that all that much. I've been critical of the change to 5 subs because it just benefits the bigger clubs with stronger benches and that's absolutely what happened today. We bring on a fresh Son and he bangs some incredible goals, even bringing on Bissouma who would walk into that Leicester side, and he completely swings the midfield battle in our favour. The stronger bench is the only reason we won today. That and Leicester are shocking. 😂

I was happy Bentancur scored, I think he's a very underrated player.


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## 4LEX (Sep 18, 2022)

The bottom line is Spurs have an average defence and midfield. It's only the front 3/4 that are world class and manager.

Conte has done an incredible job in the circumstances. Obviously theres zero chance they'll win the title but another Top 4 and a domestic trophy would be a huge success and they're capable of that. They've won their home games and got two good draws away at Chelsea and West Ham which are two derby games. Great start.


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## Orikoru (Sep 18, 2022)

4LEX said:



			The bottom line is *Spurs have an average defence and midfield*. It's only the front 3/4 that are world class and manager.

Conte has done an incredible job in the circumstances. Obviously theres zero chance they'll win the title but another Top 4 and a domestic trophy would be a huge success and they're capable of that. They've won their home games and got two good draws away at Chelsea and West Ham which are two derby games. Great start.
		
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Our midfielders are very good imo but they're only told to do one specific job in Conte's team. He doesn't ask them to get forward or create anything, they just need to be solid, win the ball back, pass it out wide pretty much. We certainly have some ropey defenders though. Sanchez and Royal need to be nowhere near the team. Lenglet looks alright but not sure he's a massive improvement on Davies, much of a muchness between those two.


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## Slime (Sep 18, 2022)

I'm watching Sky Sports Golf and they've just ran an advert for Chelsea vs L'pool being shown live tonight!?!


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## fundy (Sep 18, 2022)

Hugely impressive performance today, especially after what happened there last year. Cracking hit from the new Viera 

And if you want to feel really old, Arsenal brought on a sub who was born in 2007!!!!!!


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hugely impressive performance today, especially after what happened there last year. Cracking hit from the new Viera 

And if you want to feel really old, *Arsenal brought on a sub who was born in 2007!!!!!!*

Click to expand...

Had the commentary on in the car and in the background you could hear...

"He's only 15,
He's only 15,
How  must you be,
He's only 15!"

And 

"School in the morning, 
He's got school in the morning,
School in the morning, 
He's got school in the morning."


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Had the commentary on in the car and in the background you could hear...

"He's only 15,
He's only 15,
How  must you be,
He's only 15!"

And

"School in the morning,
He's got school in the morning,
School in the morning,
He's got school in the morning."
		
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As was also pointed out, schools are shut tomorrow 😄


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2022)

Solid at the back, Gray back on form, Gueye fitting in and making an instant impact, excellent finish by Maupay. The international break will feel a little nicer now 😄


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## pauljames87 (Sep 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Solid at the back, Gray back on form, Gueye fitting in and making an instant impact, excellent finish by Maupay. The international break will feel a little nicer now 😄
		
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You deserved it, well played 

Thought we looked stale and out of ideas 

Really questioning if rice is mature enough to be a captain


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm watching Sky Sports Golf and they've just ran an advert for Chelsea vs L'pool being shown live tonight!?!
		
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chelsea vs Liverpool is on tonight 👍


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## Slime (Sep 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			chelsea vs Liverpool is on tonight 👍
		
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The BBC website has it as postponed.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			You deserved it, well played

Thought we looked stale and out of ideas

Really questioning if rice is mature enough to be a captain
		
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You look oddly flat compared to the last two seasons. The break has come at a good time for you.

Europe impacting do you think?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			The BBC website has it as postponed.
		
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Women's football I suspect he is meaning, at Liverpool.

I understand your post though


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## Slime (Sep 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Women's football I suspect he is meaning, at Liverpool
		
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If so, he should have said, but I'm sure he's just mistaken.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You look oddly flat compared to the last two seasons. The break has come at a good time for you.

Europe impacting do you think?
		
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Lot of new players but not getting enough time together 

Cornet needs to play more

Bowen and rice out of form ATM 

Well Bowen I think is targeted now


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			The BBC website has it as postponed.
		
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Sky have Chelsea Vs Liverpool in WSL tonight and that’s what was advertised


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			If so, he should have said, but I'm sure he's just mistaken.
		
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Ahem ................... 😄


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## Jensen (Sep 18, 2022)

4LEX said:



			The bottom line is Spurs have an average defence and midfield. It's only the front 3/4 that are world class and manager.

Conte has done an incredible job in the circumstances. Obviously theres zero chance they'll win the title but another Top 4 and a domestic trophy would be a huge success and they're capable of that. They've won their home games and got two good draws away at Chelsea and West Ham which are two derby games. Great start.
		
Click to expand...

Defence wise Romero looks quality and Diers fairly decent. 
Midfield wise, you’re right we are poor there’s NO creativity. Hojberg is a decent holding player, but we haven’t had a real quality midfield since Eriksen along with Dembele


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## Slime (Sep 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sky have Chelsea Vs Liverpool in WSL tonight and that’s what was advertised
		
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It's actually Liverpool Women vs Chelsea Women ........................... there's a big difference.


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## Jensen (Sep 18, 2022)

Slime said:



			It's actually Liverpool Women vs Chelsea Women ........................... there's a big difference.
		
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Not really….both teams are full of tarts 😂😂


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## hairball_89 (Sep 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Solid at the back, Gray back on form, Gueye fitting in and making an instant impact, excellent finish by Maupay. The international break will feel a little nicer now 😄
		
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As someone who has been to many a Brighton game, enjoy the excellent finish by maupay... You'll get many more absolute sitters missed before the next!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			As someone who has been to many a Brighton game, enjoy the excellent finish by maupay... You'll get many more absolute sitters missed before the next!
		
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Ha ha, I think we are aware of that. I'll take that one today though.


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## fundy (Sep 18, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			As someone who has been to many a Brighton game, enjoy the excellent finish by maupay... You'll get many more absolute sitters missed before the next!
		
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Its OK they get Calvert Lewin back for a couple of games in a few weeks time again


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## Fade and Die (Sep 18, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Lot of new players but not getting enough time together

Cornet needs to play more

Bowen and rice out of form ATM

Well Bowen I think is targeted now
		
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The way we are setting up the team and starting games has just got to change…we are so negative. Not one goal scored in a PL first half this season.

Moyes has got to take the handbrake off and allow some attacking football, At the moment we are always going to be chasing a draw 2nd half.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			The way we are setting up the team and starting games has just got to change…we are so negative. Not one goal scored in a PL first half this season.

*Moyes has got to take the handbrake off and allow some attacking football*, At the moment we are always going to be chasing a draw 2nd half.
		
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He wont because he's a football dinosaur from the same mould as Allardyce,Hodgson and co.


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## fundy (Sep 18, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			The way we are setting up the team and starting games has just got to change…we are so negative. Not one goal scored in a PL first half this season.

Moyes has got to take the handbrake off and allow some attacking football, At the moment we are always going to be chasing a draw 2nd half.
		
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What I saw today, both full backs look scared to go forward (especially Cresswell who looks a shadow of the player he was) and Rice is almost an extra centre half, and thats not compensated by Soucek being any further forward. Sides are basically making sure Bowen is well looked after then being left just to deal with Antonio in most phases of play

Seem to have bought several attacking players but hard to see where any of them fit into Moyes scheme


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## fundy (Sep 18, 2022)

Flappy hands
Coufal Cat kicker Kehrer Emerson
Fornals Rice Paquetta
Bowen Scammaca Cornet

or something similar


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## Fade and Die (Sep 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He wont because he's a football dinosaur from the same mould as Allardyce,Hodgson and co.
		
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You don't last this long as a manager by being clueless but nearly all of the 'class of the early 90's', when he began, are either retired or scrimping a crust in the lower leagues or abroad with tin-pot clubs. 

He's totally blinkered. Always had his 'my way or the highway' attitude. When it works then fine, when it doesn't, he doesn't know how to change it.

He has his favourites and will stick blindly to them. Something he did at United as well, even when they were crying out to be axed, and he's bloody awful with his use of substitutes.

His ability to generate admirable team spirit has also now been severely tested and he's started churning out bizarre statements and sly accusations like he did at Sunderland. 

In short, he's been found out as the more cerebral coaches in today's most demanding league in the world see through his plans…The famous scene from Blackadder springs to mind.

'How can you possibly know that Blackadder ? It's classified information'

'Because it's exactly the same one you've used for the last 16 times'.

And now it’s time for him to go, Should the board fail in their duty a season like the relegation one at the Stadium of Light awaits. It already has that feel about it.

It's no country for old jocks.


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## GB72 (Sep 20, 2022)

Just reading the headlines about the proposals for the Premier League meeting this week regarding the 2 national cup competitions. 

Whether it has been for a while or not, the proposal would severely wound if not kill the League Cup. Clubs that have qualified for Europe may not need to enter or, at best enter an under 21 side. The argument is that it wuld give others a better chance of qualifying for the Europa League. Alternatively, it gets the top clubs out of a competition that they did not want to be in and they give away qualification for another competition that they do not want to be in (though the top 6 clubs rarely need the cup toqualify anyway). 

Then you get rid of third and fourth round replays in the FA Cup. I can understand it more but still that deprives the lower league clubs of that chance to hold on for a draw at home then chance their arm at a big away replay and also take in the sort of revenue that they could only dream of. 

This would appear to be the cost of the expanded champions league. 

Usual caveat, I am a football follower not a massive fan but this does seem to just be a further blow to the domestic cups and possible the death knell for one of them which I can see becoming a EFL Cup soon.


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## Orikoru (Sep 20, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Just reading the headlines about the proposals for the Premier League meeting this week regarding the 2 national cup competitions.

Whether it has been for a while or not, the proposal would severely wound if not kill the League Cup. Clubs that have qualified for Europe may not need to enter or, at best enter an under 21 side. The argument is that it wuld give others a better chance of qualifying for the Europa League. Alternatively, it gets the top clubs out of a competition that they did not want to be in and they give away qualification for another competition that they do not want to be in (though the top 6 clubs rarely need the cup toqualify anyway).

Then you get rid of third and fourth round replays in the FA Cup. I can understand it more but still that deprives the lower league clubs of that chance to hold on for a draw at home then chance their arm at a big away replay and also take in the sort of revenue that they could only dream of.

This would appear to be the cost of the expanded champions league.

Usual caveat, I am a football follower not a massive fan but this does seem to just be a further blow to the domestic cups and possible the death knell for one of them which I can see becoming a EFL Cup soon.
		
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If they make the League Cup optional I think bigger clubs would be silly to pull out of it. It's the perfect time to give your bench-warmers and youth products a game to prove themselves. Nobody ever said you have to play your full strength team. I don't know why anyone moans about it, they have big enough squads to rotate players.


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## GB72 (Sep 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			If they make the League Cup optional I think bigger clubs would be silly to pull out of it. It's the perfect time to give your bench-warmers and youth products a game to prove themselves. Nobody ever said you have to play your full strength team. I don't know why anyone moans about it, they have big enough squads to rotate players.
		
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Not moaning about squad use, in fact I think that there is far too much reliance and emphasis on clubs being able to put out their first 11 and not have to use their squads, but making it an under 21 team or being able to withdraw if you are qualified for Europe does seem to diminish the competition further.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 20, 2022)

Do we really need more European games? Like really? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a European fixture in general, but we are just going to surely get more games featuring matches with the Moldovan or Albabian leagues runners up. 

Or, if the plan is to have more games featuring matches against the elite teams, I think that just dilutes the occasion a little. It is a magical night when your club is drawn against Real, Bayern, Barcelona, etc., clubs you may only come up against rarely, and only when you do well to get in later stages. If you are playing these teams nearly every year, to me it takes the shine of it a little.


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## Orikoru (Sep 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Do we really need more European games? Like really? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a European fixture in general, but we are just going to surely get more games featuring matches with the Moldovan or Albabian leagues runners up.

Or, if the plan is to have more games featuring matches against the elite teams, I think that just dilutes the occasion a little. It is a magical night when your club is drawn against Real, Bayern, Barcelona, etc., clubs you may only come up against rarely, and only when you do well to get in later stages. If you are playing these teams nearly every year, to me it takes the shine of it a little.
		
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They are ruining the Champion's League just like they've ruined the World Cup. The name 'champions' league has been a joke for a long time already.


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## fundy (Sep 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			They are ruining the Champion's League just like they've ruined the World Cup. The name 'champions' league has been a joke for a long time already.
		
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The irony coming from a fan who havent been "Champions" since the comp started


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## Orikoru (Sep 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			The irony coming from a fan who havent been "Champions" since the comp started 

Click to expand...

Well, that's exactly what I mean..? Why is it called the Champion's League when the vast majority who are in it aren't their country's champions?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Well, that's exactly what I mean..? Why is it called the Champion's League when the vast majority who are in it aren't their country's champions?
		
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Way to make clubs take cups more seriously.. champs league places (3) for the following

Winning the League
Winning the FA cup
Winning the League Cup

if second or 3rd doesnt win these tough , get europa and conference 

europa winners get champ league
europa conference winners get champs league

win your way in


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## GB72 (Sep 20, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Way to make clubs take cups more seriously.. champs league places (3) for the following

Winning the League
Winning the FA cup
Winning the League Cup

if second or 3rd doesnt win these tough , get europa and conference

europa winners get champ league
europa conference winners get champs league

win your way in
		
Click to expand...

Not sure that would make any differnece now. I may be wrong but are the rules not chaning for the Champions League so as they can invite a certain number of clubs to take part so failure to qualify does not stop the big clubs being involved. Think it was part of the plan to head of the Super League. Also why these clubs want out of the league cup etc as there will be more Champions League matches next season.


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## Orikoru (Sep 20, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Way to make clubs take cups more seriously.. champs league places (3) for the following

Winning the League
Winning the FA cup
Winning the League Cup

if second or 3rd doesnt win these tough , get europa and conference

europa winners get champ league
europa conference winners get champs league

win your way in
		
Click to expand...

That does at least make sense. At least if you won the FA Cup you can be described as a champion by some definition. Although, Arsenal would have seen a lot more Champion's League campaigns so I'm on the fence.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			That does at least make sense. At least if you won the FA Cup you can be described as a champion by some definition. Although, Arsenal would have seen a lot more Champion's League campaigns so I'm on the fence. 

Click to expand...

would make it interesting tho.. and for example if you had liverpool and city pushing in the league waiting for the other to slip up they would have to take the cups seriously as it could be their only way in


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## Swango1980 (Sep 20, 2022)

It won't be long before the top 10 in the PL automatically qualify for the Champions League, 11th-17th Europa League and 18th-20th Europa Conference League. Or, they'll just make more and more European competitions. Like the European Relegation Trophy, were all relegated teams in domestic competitions still qualify for Europe.


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## fundy (Sep 20, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Way to make clubs take cups more seriously.. champs league places (3) for the following

Winning the League
Winning the FA cup
Winning the League Cup

if second or 3rd doesnt win these tough , get europa and conference

europa winners get champ league
europa conference winners get champs league

win your way in
		
Click to expand...


Which clubs do you want to take it more seriously? Based on recent history it wouldnt change who qualifies hardly at all

FA Cup since 1995 has been won 24 times by Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City out of 27 times

League Cup since 2005 have been won 15 times by Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea out of 18 times


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## GB72 (Sep 20, 2022)

The problem that you have is that you are slowly but surely getting a Super League by proxy. With the invites, pretty much guaranteed entry for the elite teams, check. Fitting in extra european fixtures by a reduced or no involvment in cup competitions, check. The opportunity to earn more money as low earning cup matches are replaced by high earning european matches, check. Asdie from the fact that there is now, almost, a route to qualifying, is this not basically the Super League proposal from last year. 

Now, the press release about this mad emention of more money for the lower tiers of the pyramid. I am not sure how that works as you are taking away money spinning replays and all you are giving back is maybe a non top 6 club getting in the Europa League.


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 20, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Forest finding it tough going so far. We're never getting that extra MGW cash.
		
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 You were never getting it anyway. He's still the brightest spark in our team currently. I'm still not panicking just yet, but Cooper needs to take a step back and review what has and hasn't worked. We moved to a 4-3-3 to close the game out and looked MUCH better after LOB came on. 



fundy said:



			More gel needed!!! Losing to the other 2 promoted sides back to back definitely not optimal

Do you get MGW back on the cheap if they go down? 

Click to expand...

Exactly this - we're basically 6 weeks behind every other team, given the late finish to the season and the number of transfers. Our season can't really start in earnest until after the World Cup break...BUT getting *something* from the last two games would have been part of the plan, and it's a bit of a worry how we collapsed - but it seems playing 3 at the back (with the personnel we're playing, is just not going to work without the correct 2 man midfield and more pace at the back (which on early review seems to be Mangala (who's been injured since the Everton game) and Lewis O'Brien (who, for some reason, hasn't started the last 2 games) in MF and the likes of Big Willy, Loic Bade and McKenna at the back (I love Joe Worrall and Steve Cook, but if Cooper insists on playing a back 3, they simply cannot start in this league))



Piece said:



			Perhaps they didn't buy enough in the transfer window?

😉
		
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 It was that or field a team full of players from the U21 squad 


I've heard some worrying things about Cooper being given the axe - which I hope aren't true for more than one reason, but namely;

- I cannot think of one person, who's available, who would be better suited for the job. Given his understanding of the club, it's fans and the city (we've not had a manager like that since Frank Clark - not counting Pearce, but that was never going to end well, being a former club legend)

- If Cooper goes, Dane Murphy will likely walk as well - and he's been the most instrumental person (alongside Cooper) with what's been achieved in the last 12 months.

- Cooper and Murphy performed literal miracles last season to get us promoted (and I'm still convinced this was not fully planned or expected, given our bottom-of-the-league status in September last year) - so to cut ties now, when they've really not had time to bed in the whole squad yet, would be criminal. Especially given the fact Sabri got about 6 games too many and Hughton at least 15 games too many. I know football (in the premier league especially) is all about what you've done for me lately but given what they did, they have to be given the chance to properly give it a go. 

Leicester game is massive now.


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## fundy (Sep 20, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



 You were never getting it anyway. He's still the brightest spark in our team currently. I'm still not panicking just yet, but Cooper needs to take a step back and review what has and hasn't worked. We moved to a 4-3-3 to close the game out and looked MUCH better after LOB came on.



Exactly this - we're basically 6 weeks behind every other team, given the late finish to the season and the number of transfers. Our season can't really start in earnest until after the World Cup break...BUT getting *something* from the last two games would have been part of the plan, and it's a bit of a worry how we collapsed - but it seems playing 3 at the back (with the personnel we're playing, is just not going to work without the correct 2 man midfield and more pace at the back (which on early review seems to be Mangala (who's been injured since the Everton game) and Lewis O'Brien (who, for some reason, hasn't started the last 2 games) in MF and the likes of Big Willy, Loic Bade and McKenna at the back (I love Joe Worrall and Steve Cook, but if Cooper insists on playing a back 3, they simply cannot start in this league))



 It was that or field a team full of players from the U21 squad 


I've heard some worrying things about Cooper being given the axe - which I hope aren't true for more than one reason, but namely;

- I cannot think of one person, who's available, who would be better suited for the job. Given his understanding of the club, it's fans and the city (we've not had a manager like that since Frank Clark - not counting Pearce, but that was never going to end well, being a former club legend)

- If Cooper goes, Dane Murphy will likely walk as well - and he's been the most instrumental person (alongside Cooper) with what's been achieved in the last 12 months.

- Cooper and Murphy performed literal miracles last season to get us promoted (and I'm still convinced this was not fully planned or expected, given our bottom-of-the-league status in September last year) - so to cut ties now, when they've really not had time to bed in the whole squad yet, would be criminal. Especially given the fact Sabri got about 6 games too many and Hughton at least 15 games too many. I know football (in the premier league especially) is all about what you've done for me lately but given what they did, they have to be given the chance to properly give it a go.

Leicester game is massive now.
		
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Talk of sacking Cooper utterly ludicrous based on whats gone before surely, all that does is set you back further time wise to incorporate a new manager and staff as well as all the new players. You must be about the only side looking forward to the world cup break too!


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## Aztecs27 (Sep 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			Talk of sacking Cooper utterly ludicrous based on whats gone before surely, all that does is set you back further time wise to incorporate a new manager and staff as well as all the new players. You must be about the only side looking forward to the world cup break too!
		
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Indeed. Trouble is EM is a bit of a loose cannon. He's already got rid of 2 managers at Olympiacos this season. 

the saving grace is the leeway he gave the last two managers - and they did nothing to better the club really. But I genuinely think that unless we get something from these next few games, he's going to loose patience and do something silly


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2022)

Imo one of the best matches I have seen 

Barnes and Beardsley at their height 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572670089757093889


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

Just saw this on Facebook and laughed out loud in the office:





Three right backs in a back four, alongside Stones who thinks he's a midfielder. Just who exactly is defending in this team? Pickford having conceded the 4th goal just looking around wondering where any of his defenders are.  Amazing.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Just saw this on Facebook and laughed out loud in the office:

View attachment 44441



Four right backs in a back four, alongside Stones who thinks he's a midfielder. Just who exactly is defending in this team? Pickford having conceded the 4th goal just looking around wondering where any of his defenders are.  Amazing.
		
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Four right backs and 1 midfielder in a back 4? That made me laugh in the office


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## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Just saw this on Facebook and laughed out loud in the office:

View attachment 44441



Four right backs in a back four, alongside Stones who thinks he's a midfielder. Just who exactly is defending in this team? Pickford having conceded the 4th goal just looking around wondering where any of his defenders are.  Amazing.
		
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Interesting, rice at cdm? Didn't think he did that role anymore.


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Four right backs and 1 midfielder in a back 4? That made me laugh in the office 

Click to expand...

I meant three but Stones is practically a right back as well to be fair so it still works.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I meant three but Stones is practically a right back as well to be fair so it still works.
		
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I guess they need Harry Maguire back in there, and give some much needed stability. And Luke Shaw at left back


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess they need Harry Maguire back in there, and give some much needed stability. And Luke Shaw at left back 

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Dear me.  The sad thing is Southgate probably will be starting Maguire even if he doesn't play for United between now and the World Cup.

My team would probably be something like

Pope
James - Dier - Stones - Trips
Rice - Bellingham/Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​
I still like Grealish despite the hate he seems to get. I think he links up well with Kane too when I've seen them together. Bowen could be knocking on the door for a start though if West Ham stop being utterly useless any time soon.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Dear me.  The sad thing is Southgate probably will be starting Maguire even if he doesn't play for United between now and the World Cup.

My team would probably be something like

Pope
James - Dier - Stones - Trips
Rice - Bellingham/Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​
I still like Grealish despite the hate he seems to get. I think he links up well with Kane too when I've seen them together. Bowen could be knocking on the door for a start though if West Ham stop being utterly useless any time soon.
		
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I think we just need to accept it wont be interesting football and it wont be form players playing.

It will be Gareth's golden boys


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I think we just need to accept it wont be interesting football and it wont be form players playing.

It will be Gareth's golden boys
		
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I'm still gutted Potter has gone to Chelsea. I had this great vision that after a lacklustre World Cup Southgate would walk and Potter was the perfect replacement. Now if Southgate goes I have no idea who would be next in.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2022)

@fundy , would Ben White be worth a place? We need a CH to replace Maguire and he must be close to selection. I don't see much of Arsenal so can't really comment.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm still gutted Potter has gone to Chelsea. I had this great vision that after a lacklustre World Cup Southgate would walk and Potter was the perfect replacement. Now if Southgate goes I have no idea who would be next in.
		
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You think Southgate leaves?

I don't see movement from him for a LONG time. Cushty job and under no pressure at all it feels.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@fundy , would Ben White be worth a place? We need a CH to replace Maguire and he must be close to selection. I don't see much of Arsenal so can't really comment.
		
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Hes played great this season but he has been out at RB. Deffo should be starting for England at CB over Maguire in my opinion. (On form)


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## fundy (Sep 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@fundy , would Ben White be worth a place? We need a CH to replace Maguire and he must be close to selection. I don't see much of Arsenal so can't really comment.
		
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Hes getting better but isnt playing at centre half, has been playing as a right back (add him to the list lol) while Tomiyasu has been injured so can see why hes not been picked for the squad.

For me Id be looking at Guehi and Tomori as the options to be considered at centre half on very recent form


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## Beezerk (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Dear me.  The sad thing is Southgate probably will be starting Maguire even if he doesn't play for United between now and the World Cup.

My team would probably be something like

Pope
James - Dier - Stones - Trips
Rice - Bellingham/Mount
Sterling - Foden - Grealish
Kane​
I still like Grealish despite the hate he seems to get. I think he links up well with Kane too when I've seen them together. Bowen could be knocking on the door for a start though if West Ham stop being utterly useless any time soon.
		
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Tomori for Dier, all I recall is Dier being extremely dire at CH for England


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## Bdill93 (Sep 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hes getting better but isnt playing at centre half, has been playing as a right back (add him to the list lol) while Tomiyasu has been injured so can see why hes not been picked for the squad.

For me Id be looking at Guehi and *Tomori* as the options to be considered at centre half on very recent form
		
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Tomori for sure!

Supposedly doing awesome in Italy... And the Italians seem to know how to defend at tournaments!


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Tomori for Dier, all I recall is Dier being extremely dire at CH for England 

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I couldn't tell you the last time Dier actually played centre back for England. When he was previously in the squad it was when he used to play midfield. He's been better as a centre back though. Best English CB in the league at the moment. I've heard great things about Tomori but I don't watch Italian football so haven't seen him play.


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## fundy (Sep 22, 2022)

If Dier is the best English centre back in the league then were in a lot of trouble, barely laid a foot on Daka against an awful Leicester side at the weekend!


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			If Dier is the best English centre back in the league then* were in a lot of trouble*, barely laid a foot on Daka against an awful Leicester side at the weekend!
		
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Well you're not wrong, name the better one? I'll wait. None of them are any good really.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Well you're not wrong, name the better one? I'll wait. None of them are any good really.
		
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Stones


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Stones
		
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I don't think he's better than Dier, I really don't. Defenders who spend more time prancing about on the ball than actually defending are a bugbear of mine. He's good enough that I don't mind the fact that he'll probably start though.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think he's better than Dier, I really don't. Defenders who spend more time prancing about on the ball than actually defending are a bugbear of mine. He's good enough that I don't mind the fact that he'll probably start though.
		
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Well if your criteria is defenders who defend more are better - we need to be starting Mings and Konsa


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## Swango1980 (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think he's better than Dier, I really don't.* Defenders who spend more time prancing about on the ball than actually defending are a bugbear of mine.* He's good enough that I don't mind the fact that he'll probably start though.
		
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If you are prancing about on the ball, you don't need to defend. You have the ball.


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If you are prancing about on the ball, you don't need to defend. You have the ball.
		
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I'll remind you of this next time he gets tackled in his own half or leaves a pass short and lets someone in on goal. 



Bdill93 said:



			Well if your criteria is defenders who defend more are better - we need to be starting Mings and Konsa 

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No. Just no.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think he's better than Dier, I really don't. Defenders who spend more time prancing about on the ball than actually defending are a bugbear of mine. He's good enough that I don't mind the fact that he'll probably start though.
		
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Bdill93 said:



			Well if your criteria is defenders who defend more are better - we need to be starting Mings and Konsa 

Click to expand...

Connor Coady? Had a cracking start for us.


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Connor Coady? Had a cracking start for us.
		
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I don't know.. I haven't seen many of his recent games but I figured his stock had fallen since Wolves were so keen to get rid of him. Like strengthening a potential rival for free, kind of keen.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Connor Coady? Had a cracking start for us.
		
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Hell lets get Phil Jones in!


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## Neilds (Sep 22, 2022)

Just been confirmed that Paul Warne (and all 3 assistants) have left Rotherham United and joined Derby.  He has been a great servant to the club, in 6 years of management and as a player and fitness coach.  
Wonder who we will be able to attract now to try and keep us in the Championship, seems like there are plenty of managers with time on their hands nowadays


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## Swango1980 (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'll remind you of this next time he gets tackled in his own half or leaves a pass short and lets someone in on goal.
		
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Ahh, so when you said you don't like defenders prancing about on the ball, you actually meant defenders losing possession? I assumed your definition of "prancing" were defenders able to dribble the ball out of defence with their nifty footwork. There have been some great defenders that have done this, and it incredibly advantageous for their team. However, I'd agree that a defender that tries this, but fails to do so effectively, is a liability. I know Stones has been guilty of this in the past, although I'm not so sure if he is still as prone to as many errors? Given Man City's recent record, I'm guessing he has provided more positives that negatives to Pep and his team mates, but as I am not a Man City fan it isn't something I've been monitoring in any detail.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Ahh, so when you said you don't like defenders prancing about on the ball, you actually meant defenders losing possession? I assumed your definition of "prancing" were defenders able to dribble the ball out of defence with their nifty footwork. There have been some great defenders that have done this, and it incredibly advantageous for their team. However, I'd agree that a defender that tries this, but fails to do so effectively, is a liability. I know Stones has been guilty of this in the past, although I'm not so sure if he is still as prone to as many errors? Given Man City's recent record, I'm guessing he has provided more positives that negatives to Pep and his team mates, but as I am not a Man City fan it isn't something I've been monitoring in any detail.
		
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He's good for city - starts every week for a reason - but they don't actually do all that much defending to be fair


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Ahh, so when you said you don't like defenders prancing about on the ball, you actually meant defenders losing possession? I assumed your definition of "prancing" were defenders able to dribble the ball out of defence with their nifty footwork. There have been some great defenders that have done this, and it incredibly advantageous for their team. However, I'd agree that a defender that tries this, but fails to do so effectively, is a liability. I know Stones has been guilty of this in the past, although I'm not so sure if he is still as prone to as many errors? Given Man City's recent record, I'm guessing he has provided more positives that negatives to Pep and his team mates, but as I am not a Man City fan it isn't something I've been monitoring in any detail.
		
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Yeah, it's more the modern trend of defenders who are picked because they're decent on the ball but they can't actually defend. Goalkeepers have gone the same way. 

In a City team that has 75% possession of course Stones looks better, at that level what he does with the ball is more important, indeed more frequent, than when they don't have it. However the England team doesn't have the same quality as City, nor do we even try to keep the ball for that long it seems like. So it's a different ball game and his mistakes will be highlighted more. 

I would argue that Spurs are more similar to England in terms of level and playing style at the moment, hence I'd have no worries about Dier transitioning.


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## Beezerk (Sep 22, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Just been confirmed that Paul Warne (and all 3 assistants) have left Rotherham United and joined Derby.  He has been a great servant to the club, in 6 years of management and as a player and fitness coach. 
Wonder who we will be able to attract now to try and keep us in the Championship, seems like there are plenty of managers with time on their hands nowadays 

Click to expand...

Wow, I wondered what my Wednesday mate was going on about on Facebook 
You'd had a decent start as well, they must have been promised the earth at Derby...heard that before


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Hell lets get Phil Jones in!
		
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He just needed the right man in charge to bring out his best .

He looks like a no nonsense defender so far, I like that. Early days though.....


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## Swango1980 (Sep 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, it's more the modern trend of defenders who are picked because they're decent on the ball but they can't actually defend. Goalkeepers have gone the same way.

In a City team that has 75% possession of course Stones looks better, at that level what he does with the ball is more important, indeed more frequent, than when they don't have it. However the England team doesn't have the same quality as City, nor do we even try to keep the ball for that long it seems like. So it's a different ball game and his mistakes will be highlighted more.

I would argue that Spurs are more similar to England in terms of level and playing style at the moment, hence I'd have no worries about Dier transitioning.
		
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Well, given that is seems clear to me that Southgate is one of the least adventurous managers England have had (although there have been a few), then I guess it is fair to say England will not be good at dominating possession against decent sides. So, yes, it is a fair point to question Stones if he genuinely isn't great at defending compared to others. With some of the young attacking talent at Southgate's disposal (who are not maturing), it is a pity he couldn't have implemented a positive attacking game with decent possession. Stones may have fitted better into that set up.


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## fundy (Sep 22, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			He's good for city - starts every week for a reason - but they don't actually do all that much defending to be fair 

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is the reason that Laportes injured 

i dont mind stones but hes no world beater either, big part of the problem is all the options appear to be much of a muchness, so it boils down to Southgate getting the best combinations (which worries me!)


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## Orikoru (Sep 22, 2022)

fundy said:



*is the reason that Laportes injured *

i dont mind stones but hes no world beater either, big part of the problem is all the options appear to be much of a muchness, so it boils down to Southgate getting the best combinations (which worries me!)
		
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I feel like they've bought Akanji to replace Stones in the meantime as well. Pep has never had 100% faith in him as a regular starter. He only appears in about half their league games.


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## 4LEX (Sep 22, 2022)

These two games are huge for Southgate. Anything less than 4 points and we head into the World Cup under a negative cloud. Italy are an average side with key players injured, we need to set a marker on Friday. They were incredibly lucky to win the Euros and their failure to qualify for the World Cup is a true marker of their level.

Germany aren't anything special but have more class so a draw wouldn't be too bad.

Southgate has got a real job on his hands to sort the side out into a balanced team before the World Cup. My feeling is he'll with what's served him well in the past and stick with the old guard. Maguire deserves a start as he's decent in a deep back four or five and theres not much else around. He's always performed well for England and you can't drop people with experience for a bit of club based form.

Not going to Rome due to business but will be at the Germany game. Looking forward to seeing Toney as he adds a different dimension to the attack.


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## Golfmmad (Sep 22, 2022)

What about Lewis Dunk, he's worth a try surely.


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## Neilds (Sep 23, 2022)

You would have thought (hoped?) that Southgate would have a firm idea about his starting 11 and what shape they are going to play.  The Lionesses had this in the Euros and it worked really well.  The same starting 11, same shape, same substitutes at the same time but not afraid to make changes within the match. With the men, it looks like Southgate is winging it a bit and trying to please players, pundits, fans at the same time and not being his own man.


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2022)

A back 4 of Maguire, Dier and 2 right backs, this could be fun. Card happy ref who sent Maguire and James off in the Denmark game too


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## Beezerk (Sep 23, 2022)

Wow, Tomori and Coady will be wondering what they have to do to get a start.
I’d also have started Grealish ahead of Sterling but that’s just personal preference.


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Wow, Tomori and Coady will be wondering what they have to do to get a start.
I’d also have started Grealish ahead of Sterling but that’s just personal preference.
		
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I thought we were playing 5 at the back with Saka at left back when i saw the XI lol


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			I thought we were playing 5 at the back with Saka at left back when i saw the XI lol
		
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maybe we are lol


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## Piece (Sep 23, 2022)

Strictly has more goalmouth action than this current borefest


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## GG26 (Sep 23, 2022)

Can’t believe that James Maddison isn’t even in the squad.  Although Leicester are bottom of the league we are still scoring goals and that’s largely down to Maddison.


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2022)

Piece said:



			Strictly has more goalmouth action than this current borefest 

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Sooooooooo slow, awful awful watch so far. In Southgate we rust........................


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## Stuart_C (Sep 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sooooooooo slow, awful awful watch so far. In Southgate we rust........................
		
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Bravo sir 👏👏👏


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## Slime (Sep 23, 2022)

Southgate not wearing a belt .............................. what was he thinking?


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2022)

Slime said:



			Southgate not wearing a belt .............................. what was he thinking?
		
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feels like a long way down the list of issues to me...............


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## Slime (Sep 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			feels like a long way down the list of issues to me...............
		
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Maybe so, but he must lead by example, and trousers with belt loops absolutely demand that a belt is worn.
That's one of life's basics.


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2022)

Slime said:



			Maybe so, but he must lead by example, and trousers with belt loops absolutely demand that a belt is worn.
That's one of life's basics.
		
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OK youve convinced me, seems like a sacking offence


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## Swango1980 (Sep 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			OK youve convinced me, seems like a sacking offence 

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Well, hopefully that works. His awful brand of football isn't going to get him the sack.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, hopefully that works. His awful brand of football isn't going to get him the sack.
		
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Theres no way this manager is getting sacked before a World Cup.

Based on tonights showing anything like this at the World Cup and it'll be a short lived one.


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2022)

Reece James on dead balls, is the cupboard really that bare..............


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## Swango1980 (Sep 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Theres no way this manager is getting sacked before a World Cup.

Based on tonights showing anything like this at the World Cup and it'll be a short lived one.
		
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I know. I didn't genuinely think he might get sacked for not wearing a belt.

Must be hard being a die hard England fan that goes to all the games. Often so much potential, yet no other nation would surely ever consider them one of the strong favourites. Most boring high ranked international football team around.


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## Piece (Sep 23, 2022)

What a bag of spanners.


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2022)

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

No goals, no ideas, no clue

Come on Gareth, what did you learn from that? Maybe this is all just one mighty bluff and youre going to reveal the real gameplan at the WC?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I know.* I didn't genuinely think he might get sacked for not wearing a belt.*

Must be hard being a die hard England fan that goes to all the games. Often so much potential, yet no other nation would surely ever consider them one of the strong favourites. Most boring high ranked international football team around.
		
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I knew that, but it would be funny 🤣

That was dire though. Southgate is handicapping this pool of talent.


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## Swango1980 (Sep 23, 2022)

Looks like they were being booed off. Southgate has always been decent in interviews, and probably decent with the players  

But, he really needs to start showing he is decent at getting consistently good performances and results from a team of good players. Diplomacy can surely only get him so far.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 23, 2022)

Piece said:



			What a bag of spanners. 

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Spanners are useful.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Looks like they were being booed off. Southgate has always been decent in interviews, and probably decent with the players 

But, *he really needs to start showing he is decent at getting consistently good performances and results from a team of good players. *Diplomacy can surely only get him so far.
		
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He's not though. Tactically he's very negative and has proved time and again once they come up against a good side he bails it.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 23, 2022)

Rice thinks they controlled the game......erm🤔🤔🤔


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## Piece (Sep 23, 2022)

Declan, did you play in a different game to what I just watched?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 23, 2022)

Piece said:



			Declan, did you play in a different game to what I just watched?
		
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I'm going off Declan .. lives in his own world where imagine matters more than results 

"Trust us" no Declan no. West ham's form after past calender year hasn't been good. England haven't won in 5

You are part of both midfields that don't look as solid as they should

Stop building your brand. Get off league of their own and on the training pitch.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Spanners are useful.
		
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Only if used in the right manner, and for the job they were intended


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## Slime (Sep 23, 2022)

I wish Potter hadn't go to Chelsea, maybe he does, too.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 23, 2022)

Slime said:



			I wish Potter hadn't go to Chelsea, maybe he does, too.
		
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Even his brother Harry, or sister Beatrix could do a better job that what's doing it currently.
At least the English contingent will be back early from the WC to get ready for keeping their club benches warm


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## 4LEX (Sep 23, 2022)

Momentum is key in football and we've lost it big time. Not just lost it but the wheels have fallen off.

I think we're in big trouble now, you can't just turn it on when it matters. We're on the slide and this is a terrible run of games where we're looking worse and worse. Slow, no composure, no game plan and too many long balls.

I really fancied our chances in Qatar but right now I can see us going out to the first decent side we face. Our best bet is Southgate has learnt from the last year, goes back to basics and we play a more cautious game and hope our attack bails us out. 

We need a big performance Monday against Germany who are as bad as us on recent form.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 23, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Momentum is key in football and we've lost it big time. Not just lost it but the wheels have fallen off.

I think we're in big trouble now, you can't just turn it on when it matters. We're on the slide and this is a terrible run of games where we're looking worse and worse. Slow, no composure, no game plan and too many long balls.

I really fancied our chances in Qatar but right now I can see us going out to the first decent side we face. *Our best bet is Southgate has learnt from the last year, goes back to basics and we play a more cautious game and hope our attack bails us out.*

We need a big performance Monday against Germany who are as bad as us on recent form.
		
Click to expand...

Isn't that what he's doing now?

They looked clueless tonight and his answer was to bring Grealish and Shaw on 🤣🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Sep 23, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Momentum is key in football and we've lost it big time. Not just lost it but the wheels have fallen off.

I think we're in big trouble now, you can't just turn it on when it matters. We're on the slide and this is a terrible run of games where we're looking worse and worse. Slow, no composure, no game plan and too many long balls.

I really fancied our chances in Qatar but right now I can see us going out to the first decent side we face. Our best bet is Southgate has learnt from the last year, goes back to basics and we play a more cautious game and hope our attack bails us out. 

We need a big performance Monday against Germany who are as bad as us on recent form.
		
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Play more cautious than he is already?


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## 4LEX (Sep 23, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Isn't that what he's doing now?

They looked clueless tonight and his answer was to bring Grealish and Shaw on 🤣🤣🤣
		
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Playing Foden and Bellingham is quite an attacking approach for Southgate! It's clear he hasn't got the nous to manage a progressive side, he'll go back to Rice/Phillips and Henderson as the midfield three I'm sure.


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Playing Foden and Bellingham is quite an attacking approach for Southgate! It's clear he hasn't got the nous to manage a progressive side, he'll go back to Rice/Phillips and Henderson as the midfield three I'm sure.
		
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he'll be out of a job by the time Phillips is fit again surely


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 23, 2022)

Probably the worst Italian team I have ever seen and we struggled against them.
Never seen two international sides give the ball away so much.
Bellingham the only one who was good.
WC no chance looking at that.


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## 4LEX (Sep 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			he'll be out of a job by the time Phillips is fit again surely
		
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Phillips should make the plane and I can't see the spineless FA sacking Southgate before the World Cup.

What we've witnessed over the last year is a manager panicking and trying to add random players to various systems. It's a total mess and the results, performances and stats look really bad. That said, give Germany a beating and the cracks will be papered over until we face a top side in Qatar. That's the best we can hope for.

Tuchel is available and plays the same sysem England have enjoyed success with. He made a quick impact at Chelsea in the CL but it'll never happen.


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## fundy (Sep 23, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Phillips should make the plane and I can't see the spineless FA sacking Southgate before the World Cup.

What we've witnessed over the last year is a manager panicking and trying to add random players to various systems. It's a total mess and the results, performances and stats look really bad. That said, give Germany a beating and the cracks will be papered over until we face a top side in Qatar. That's the best we can hope for.

Tuchel is available and plays the same sysem England have enjoyed success with. He made a quick impact at Chelsea in the CL but it'll never happen.
		
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not played quarter of an hour this year and rumoured to need shoulder surgery. Sounds like a Southgate pick I guess


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## 4LEX (Sep 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			not played quarter of an hour this year and rumoured to need shoulder surgery. Sounds like a Southgate pick I guess
		
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I hear Milner can do a job if required


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## pokerjoke (Sep 24, 2022)

I thought Foden and Bellingham were positives.
Saka and Sterling can never play on the same side of the field again.
Saka on the right would be better.
As others have said we’ve lost momentum at the wrong time.
My other question would be why is he so stuck on Kane and never substitutes him.
Perfect game to bring Toney on,but never even made the squad,bloody madness.
Pope didn’t inspire me with confidence either,his kicking is very poor.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I thought Foden and Bellingham were positives.
Saka and Sterling can never play on the same side of the field again.
Saka on the right would be better.
As others have said we’ve lost momentum at the wrong time.
My other question would be why is he so stuck on Kane and never substitutes him.
Perfect game to bring Toney on,but never even made the squad,bloody madness.
Poor didn’t inspire me with confidence either,his kicking is very poor.
		
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Every generation we seem to have a player that becomes untouchable, no matter their form. Beckham, Rooney, now Kane. Everyone falls out of form, everyone has bad games. To ignore that is weak management.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I thought Foden and Bellingham were positives.
Saka and Sterling can never play on the same side of the field again.
Saka on the right would be better.
As others have said we’ve lost momentum at the wrong time.
My other question would be why is he so stuck on Kane and never substitutes him.
Perfect game to bring Toney on,but never even made the squad,bloody madness.
Poor didn’t inspire me with confidence either,his kicking is very poor.
		
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Kane came looking for the ball because the service to him was dismal.
But he’s not in the box when needed then.
Felt sorry for Saka he looked so out of place.
Foden looked good on the ball .
We were wide open in front of the back line and a better team would have taken us apart.
Pope showed how good Pickford is with the ball playing out.


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## Piece (Sep 24, 2022)

Gareth, "Saka, where do you play at Arsenal?"
Saka, "Wide left or right, upfront, Boss"
Gareth, "You start left wing back"
Saka, "    "

Gareth, "Harry M, you played much recently?"
Harry M, "Nah, been dropped for last month"
Gareth, "You start"

Gareth, "Luke, haven't seen much of you since Euro 2020?"
Luke, "Been rubbish, Boss."
Gareth, "Noted. You will play second half"

Gareth, "Toney, you've been in excellent form I hear"
Toney, "Yes Boss, feeling great, ready to go"
Gareth, "Nice to hear. May see you Monday".

Gareth, "Kyle, you played right of a back three?"
Kyle, "Of course, Gaffer. 
Gareth, "Great, show me you can handle the ball over the top"
Kyle, "Leave it to me...."

Gareth, "Declan. Form good as West Ham struggling and no Calvin today?"
Declan, "Yes. Trust me."
Gareth, "Good man. Try and be in the wrong place if you can"
Declan, "Trust me"


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2022)

Piece said:



			Gareth, "Saka, where do you play at Arsenal?"
Saka, "Wide left or right, upfront, Boss"
Gareth, "You start left wing back"
Saka, "    "

Gareth, "Harry M, you played much recently?"
Harry M, "Nah, been dropped for last month"
Gareth, "You start"

Gareth, "Luke, haven't seen much of you since Euro 2020?"
Luke, "Been rubbish, Boss."
Gareth, "Noted. You will play second half"

Gareth, "Toney, you've been in excellent form I hear"
Toney, "Yes Boss, feeling great, ready to go"
Gareth, "Nice to hear. May see you Monday".

Gareth, "Kyle, you played right of a back three?"
Kyle, "Of course, Gaffer.
Gareth, "Great, show me you can handle the ball over the top"
Kyle, "Leave it to me...."

Gareth, "Declan. Form good as West Ham struggling and no Calvin today?"
Declan, "Yes. Trust me."
Gareth, "Good man. Try and be in the wrong place if you can"
Declan, "Trust me"
		
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Jeez it’s like you were in the dressing room!
I do wonder what the seasoned pros who were playing think of this.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 24, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Jeez it’s like you were in the dressing room!
I do wonder what the seasoned pros who were playing think of this.
		
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Perhaps like most of us.....why is Southgate still there?


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## Golfmmad (Sep 24, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Perhaps like most of us.....why is Southgate still there?
		
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Blimey, reading all the posts anybody would think it was a rout and we lost 5 or 6 nil. 
One goal, taken very well, I don't think they had many more shots on target. 
Italy defended very well and made it difficult. Having lost out on the world cup they weren't gonna lose this one. 
Let's see what happens on Monday, oh wait a minute, if we beat Germany they'll say they were a poor side! 😭


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## Fade and Die (Sep 24, 2022)

Pool B for England now,. So these pointless friendlies have become even more so now…and Southgate has managed to relegate both the clubs he has managed….

I noticed unsurprisingly that West Ham’s Paul Nevin is also on the England coaching staff.

The similarities are astonishing😁

If Southgate and Moyes swapped jobs would we notice the difference? Hardly! They are both relics in the modern game.


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## fundy (Sep 24, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Blimey, reading all the posts anybody would think it was a rout and we lost 5 or 6 nil.
One goal, taken very well, I don't think they had many more shots on target.
Italy defended very well and made it difficult. Having lost out on the world cup they weren't gonna lose this one.
Let's see what happens on Monday, oh wait a minute, if we beat Germany they'll say they were a poor side! 😭
		
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You mean the Germany side that lost at home to Hungary last night? Theyre no great shakes whatever happens monday lol


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 24, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Blimey, reading all the posts anybody would think it was a rout and we lost 5 or 6 nil.
One goal, taken very well, I don't think they had many more shots on target.
Italy defended very well and made it difficult. Having lost out on the world cup they weren't gonna lose this one.
Let's see what happens on Monday, oh wait a minute, if we beat Germany they'll say they were a poor side! 😭
		
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You mean the Italy side that weren't good enough to qualify for this years World Cup?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Blimey, reading all the posts anybody would think it was a rout and we lost 5 or 6 nil.
One goal, taken very well, I don't think they had many more shots on target.
Italy defended very well and made it difficult. Having lost out on the world cup they weren't gonna lose this one.
Let's see what happens on Monday, oh wait a minute, if we beat Germany they'll say they were a poor side! 😭
		
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It was also a very weakened Italy side missing a good number of their better players

Right now is your standard Southgate teams - he was defensive for Boro and in the end his poor tactics shone through

He is still living of getting through to a semi and final with the easiest run and set pieces

england have a vast array of talent at their disposal but they have an inept manager at the helm

How on earth is Maguire still starting , Saka at Left wing back 🤦‍♂️ Kane just missing every game.

How on earth doesn’t Maddison get into the squad 🤦‍♂️

Another generation of very good English players are going to be wasted

I’m glad that he hasn’t got a clue on how to play TAA so he sits on the bench - shame for TAA though


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## fundy (Sep 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was also a very weakened Italy side missing a good number of their better players

Right now is your standard Southgate teams - he was defensive for Boro and in the end his poor tactics shone through

He is still living of getting through to a semi and final with the easiest run and set pieces

england have a vast array of talent at their disposal but they have an inept manager at the helm

How on earth is Maguire still starting , Saka at Left wing back 🤦‍♂️ Kane just missing every game.

How on earth doesn’t Maddison get into the squad 🤦‍♂️

Another generation of very good English players are going to be wasted

I’m glad that he hasn’t got a clue on how to play TAA so he sits on the bench - shame for TAA though
		
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not sure Klopp knows how to play TAA currently does he, what hope would Southgate have


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## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2022)

Southgate said “ we are in the middle of a media love in”. 
Funniest thing I have heard for ages. The man is deluded. 
Him as manager of England is like asking me to drive for Red Bull in F1.


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## 4LEX (Sep 25, 2022)

On a related point....can we all agree just how woeful the coverage was on C4? Absolutely shocking. One of the most depressing nights of football and coverage I've ever seen.

And what is Rice doing coming out saying they score loads of goals in training and will be fine. That line really concerns me as I rate him and think he's a leader so to say that just screams delusion.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2022)

For me England's problem is they play for stats and records

As an example kane doesn't need to play every single game but does so because they want him to get all time top goal scorer 

Like vardy before him tovey won't get a fair chance to make a case to start


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## Bdill93 (Sep 26, 2022)

Southgate has to go

Its really getting so painfully obvious to everyone but the FA that Southgate is not up to the job of leading us to victory at a major tournament.

I do not know who the answer is, but my god the football we have played for some time is just absolute DROSS.

We have some of the best talent from the premier league in our squad, and we haven't scored a goal from open play in how long?!

Our talent pool going forward is simply ridiculous - Kane, Foden, Maddison, Mount, Grealish, Saka, Sterling, Rashford, Sancho are all top drawer players (the list goes on). There isn't much better. WHY CANT WE SCORE?! We don't even look like scoring!

Couldn't beat Croatia, Couldn't beat Italy, relegated from a tin pot Nations league. Why is he still employed?!


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## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

Tuchel's available?


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

Piece said:





Tuchel's available? 

Click to expand...


Watford doing Watford things lol. GL with Bilic


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

Nice to see them wait the full 15 minutes between sacking one and announcing the next, almost like theyre used to this............


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## pauljames87 (Sep 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Watford doing Watford things lol. GL with Bilic 

Click to expand...

Oh god how has he managed to blag his way into another managers job, possibly one of the worst managers I've ever seen.


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## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh god how has he managed to blag his way into another managers job, possibly one of the worst managers I've ever seen.
		
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It's now at the stage where the name doesn't matter. We've had 10+ coaches and the playing style is EXACTLY the same. It's the football hierarchy that's wrong. 

Hey ho.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 26, 2022)

Piece said:



			It's now at the stage where the name doesn't matter. We've had 10+ coaches and the playing style is EXACTLY the same. It's the football hierarchy that's wrong. 

Hey ho. 

Click to expand...

You must spend sooo much paying off all these managers though!


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## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You must spend sooo much paying off all these managers though! 

Click to expand...

50% of my ST no doubt.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Southgate has to go

Its really getting so painfully obvious to everyone but the FA that Southgate is not up to the job of leading us to victory at a major tournament.

I do not know who the answer is, but my god the football we have played for some time is just absolute DROSS.

We have some of the best talent from the premier league in our squad, and we haven't scored a goal from open play in how long?!

Our talent pool going forward is simply ridiculous - Kane, Foden, Maddison, Mount, Grealish, Saka, Sterling, Rashford, Sancho are all top drawer players (the list goes on). There isn't much better. WHY CANT WE SCORE?! We don't even look like scoring!

Couldn't beat Croatia, Couldn't beat Italy, relegated from a tin pot Nations league. Why is he still employed?!
		
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They have  just shown why we cannot score. Against italy when England were attacking Kane had dropped deep and there was no one in the box, when there was there was 8 defending and three England players in and around the box.even when attacking England are setup to defend.


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## theoneandonly (Sep 26, 2022)

That's how to do a silence. Scousers take note!


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## AmandaJR (Sep 26, 2022)

Our fans can be the worst but wow that silence for the Queen was impeccable, and moving.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			They have  just shown why we cannot score. Against italy when England were attacking Kane had dropped deep and there was no one in the box, when there was there was 8 defending and three England players in and around the box.even when attacking England are setup to defend.
		
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Why is Kane pushing wide then crossing to two of the smallest players on the field.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			That's how to do a silence. Scousers take note!
		
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Here is an idea 

Follow this example - instead of using a minutes silence to score points 



AmandaJR said:



			Our fans can be the worst but wow that silence for the Queen was impeccable, and moving.
		
Click to expand...


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			That's how to do a silence. Scousers take note!
		
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Pity you don’t take your own advice.!


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## theoneandonly (Sep 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Here is an idea

Follow this example - instead of using a minutes silence to score points
		
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Anything to deflect from the awful, disgusting scenes from Anfield eh 🤣.
I'm simply pointing out the well observed silence at Wembley Vs the 💩show in the LFC CL game.
Scoring points , what a typical reply and laughably ironic


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Anything to deflect from the awful, disgusting scenes from Anfield eh 🤣.
I'm simply pointing out the well observed silence at Wembley Vs the 💩show in the LFC CL game.
Scoring points , what a typical reply and laughably ironic
		
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what deflection ? The scenes have already been discussed and with people posting how appalling it was and how disgusted they were with what happened 2 weeks ago. No one excused it or any deflection - your post was nothing but points scoring and added nothing but that’s standard.

Guess it says more about you than anything else when using a sign of Rememberance to score points. Also surprised you are bothered about it when you consider your stance on the Monarchy


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## theoneandonly (Sep 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			what deflection ? The scenes have already been discussed and with people posting how appalling it was and how disgusted they were with what happened 2 weeks ago. No one excused it or any deflection - your post was nothing but points scoring and added nothing but that’s standard.

Guess it says more about you than anything else when using a sign of Rememberance to score points. Also surprised you are bothered about it when you consider your stance on the Monarchy
		
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You see LP.... Laughably ironic. You really need to look that up and see how it pertains to your posts.


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

hows that not a penalty?


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## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2022)

That’s a nailed on penalty.


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## theoneandonly (Sep 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			hows that not a penalty?
		
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I'm sure it will be.


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

oh it is  

maguire signing southgates p45 lol


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## AmandaJR (Sep 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			hows that not a penalty?
		
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It is!!

Have to feel for Stones - he looked like he thought it could be serious enough to keep him out of the world cup.


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## larmen (Sep 26, 2022)

Fastest var check in the history of var.


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## theoneandonly (Sep 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			oh it is  

maguire signing southgates p45 lol
		
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Yeah I was amazed it wasnt given at the time.
Southgate will be there for the world cup.


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## AmandaJR (Sep 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			oh it is  

maguire signing southgates p45 lol
		
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It's his clown feet! Must be size 24 at least!!


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## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2022)

Slack pass and a slack tackle from a Player who shouldn’t be on the pitch.


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			It is!!

Have to feel for Stones - he looked like he thought it could be serious enough to keep him out of the world cup.
		
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Another one Ive cursed by bringing him into my fantasy side  sorry John


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2022)

Remember when Southgate catergorically stated he will only pick players who are in form for their clubs🤣🤣🤣


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Remember when Southgate catergorically stated he will only pick players who are in form for their clubs🤣🤣🤣
		
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Pope, Dier, Foden and Bellingham of the current XI?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2022)

That’s a clear penalty - how are Maguire and Shaw playing for England when they can’t even get in the Man Utd team ? 

Musiala is a heck of talent - who could have been playing for England , looks like he made the right choice


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## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

Now there's a surprise.

Crap centre half with no recent form gives away the ball and then gives away a pen. But don't worry, he's a certain starter.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			It is!!

Have to feel for Stones - he looked like he thought it could be serious enough to keep him out of the world cup.
		
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He wasn’t even sprinting though.
Seemed a very surprising pull.
Maybe just a tweak.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 26, 2022)

Slabhead strikes again.

I hope to Christ that Leicester haven’t had us over with Fofana like they had United over with Maguire.


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Slabhead strikes again.

I hope to Christ that Leicester haven’t had us over with Fofana like they had United over with Maguire.
		
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not even close mate, youll be fine there


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Pope, Dier, Foden and Bellingham of the current XI?
		
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Tomori isnt even in the matchday squad🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤣🤣


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## AmandaJR (Sep 26, 2022)

Dier - football on ice!!


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Tomori isnt even in the matchday squad🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤣🤣
		
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should be first defenders name on the sheet


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## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

Still awaiting Gareth's positive response....


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## AmandaJR (Sep 26, 2022)

I actually think Luke Shaw has looked neat and tidy. Same when he came on the pitch Friday...not sure what that says about the rest of them and their distribution (it's shocking).

Oops - commentator's curse!!


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

Good job Werner’s finishing is crap


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

Piece said:



			Still awaiting Gareth's positive response....
		
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Any minute now they have scored


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## AmandaJR (Sep 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			He wasn’t even sprinting though.
Seemed a very surprising pull.
Maybe just a tweak.
		
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Hope so. I like him. Can have a brain fart from time to time but a hard working player who always gives 100%.


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

lucky dip, which position does Saka get tonight lol


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## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2022)

Unfortunately really can’t see Southgate being sacked before the World Cup.
Same subs coming on now but no Abraham or Toney
How the hell is is he going to see what they can do.


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## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

More men in form coming on. 😄


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Unfortunately really can’t see Southgate being sacked before the World Cup.
Same subs coming on now but no Abraham or Toney
How the hell is is he going to see what they can do.
		
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He dosnt need to !
He’s not going to play them


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Hope so. I like him. Can have a brain fart from time to time but a hard working player who always gives 100%.
		
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Looked like a hamstring - hopefully not too serious and will be a couple of weeks only




fundy said:



			Pope, Dier, Foden and Bellingham of the current XI?
		
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That’s prob about it - Kane and Sterling are doing ok at Club

but players like Abraham , Tomori and Toney should be getting minutes and it’s criminal that Maddison isn’t in the team

And that’s 2

England are at the same level as the Ch 4 presenting and commentary team


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

taking of players out of form...............


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## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2022)

Maguire is a bloody liability 
Both goals his fault


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

Getting a football lesson of a poor German side.
Who gave the ball away???


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## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

Havertz scores from where Harry M should be. Where was Harry before the goal? Losing the ball upfront, out of position....again.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Maguire is a bloody liability
Both goals his fault
		
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To be fair though.
He hasn’t played much but the manager has asked him to step up.
It’s GS fault imo.


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## nickjdavis (Sep 26, 2022)

Maguire might as well be wearing a German shirt tonight.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 26, 2022)

And that’s what Havertz can do when you play him in the right position. Please take note Mr. Potter. 

Shame we don’t still have Werner to play with him.


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## paddyc (Sep 26, 2022)

Don't  worry it's just a world cup warm up game. It will all come good...hey Gareth! Lots of positives!!


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## Bazzatron (Sep 26, 2022)

Second favourites for the world cup 🤣🤣🤣


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## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

Wow. An England goal from open play!


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Don't  worry it's just a world cup warm up game. It will all come good...hey Gareth! Lots of positives!!
		
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Rice seems to think so “trust us”


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## larmen (Sep 26, 2022)

Piece said:



			Wow. An England goal from open play!
		
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Don’t think it hit the Lampard standard and therefore didn’t cross the ‘real’ line against Germany ;-)


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

Piece said:



			Wow. An England goal from open play!
		
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Full back though.


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## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

Like buses............


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

I take it all back Gareth is a genius.


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## Beezerk (Sep 26, 2022)

Great goal.


----------



## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

Wow. A second England goal from open play!


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## nickjdavis (Sep 26, 2022)

just shows what happens when you play positively and drive at the opposition instead of automatically playing safe, square and backwards.


----------



## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

Where was this intensity and positivity the last few months??


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2022)

Bellingham is pretty special isn’t he


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2022)

Yup another penalty


----------



## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

geez thats a red card surely


----------



## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

Southgates found the blueprint, just go 2-0 down...............


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

How can the ref not see that himself.
He’s got a perfect view.
He should not need VAR.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

This will paper over all those cracks for a while.


----------



## BiMGuy (Sep 26, 2022)

Tell me again why Pope is the best English goalkeeper!


----------



## Blue in Munich (Sep 26, 2022)

Has Maguire gone in goal?


----------



## paddyc (Sep 26, 2022)

Told you it will all come good!
Jude Bellingham  must start.
But then the Pope comes to the Germans rescue!


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Pope, Dier, Foden and Bellingham of the current XI?
		
Click to expand...

i might drop pope from that list 😖😳😁


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I thought Foden and Bellingham were positives.
Saka and Sterling can never play on the same side of the field again.
Saka on the right would be better.
As others have said we’ve lost momentum at the wrong time.
My other question would be why is he so stuck on Kane and never substitutes him.
Perfect game to bring Toney on,but never even made the squad,bloody madness.
Pope didn’t inspire me with confidence either,his kicking is very poor.
		
Click to expand...

Some of us just see things better than others.
Even from our sofas
Don’t forget Stu I’ve played the game😀


----------



## IainP (Sep 26, 2022)

Maybe the team should boycot the WC, is there a petition?   🤔😉😄


----------



## fundy (Sep 26, 2022)

2 very ordinary sides considering the talent both have at their disposal


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## Slime (Sep 26, 2022)

The last few pages of this thread.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			i might drop pope from that list 😖😳😁
		
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At least Pickford hasn’t done anything wrong to lose the shirt.
For an international keeper that was very poor.


----------



## Piece (Sep 26, 2022)

A fine 10 mins doesn't cover up the crap months before that.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Some of us just see things better than others.
Even from our sofas
Don’t forget Stu I’ve played the game😀
		
Click to expand...

You dont need to have played the game to understand playing a Right midfielder in his best position and not at left wingback 😉

I see nothing got past James again🙄🙄


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You dont need to have played the game to understand playing a Right midfielder in his best position and not at left wingback 😉

I see nothing got past James again🙄🙄
		
Click to expand...

I know the best right back in the world not even in the squad lmao


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## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You dont need to have played the game to understand playing a Right midfielder in his best position and not at left wingback 😉

I see nothing got past James again🙄🙄
		
Click to expand...

i understand that the golden waistcoat may have a system in mind. If he does, why does he insist on putting square pegs in round holes. I feel the last few games have been all about trying to save face and not build a system that we can carry into the World Cup. I honestly do not have a clue what system we are trying to play.


----------



## Swingalot (Sep 26, 2022)

A brave leader looks at that game and sees that Southgate has to go.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 27, 2022)

It’s strange how other National coaches tell their 0layers if they arent playing regularly they aren’t considered, but the English manager tells his mates not to worry, they’re in.
Whar does that say to younger or fringe players? Don’t bother with England, unless your face fits you won’t get in no matter how good you are?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I know the best right back in the world not even in the squad lmao
		
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And that sums up Southgate as a manager.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			i understand that the golden waistcoat may have a system in mind. If he does, why does he insist on putting square pegs in round holes. I feel the last few games have been all about trying to save face and not build a system that we can carry into the World Cup. I honestly do not have a clue what system we are trying to play.
		
Click to expand...

What I don't get is TAA is rightly called out for being great going forward but bang average defending. However we then set up in a system with 3 Cbs that would completely suit him !

Now however isn't the time to change managers

Regardless if he wins to world cup I think it's time to change post quatar to give the new manager maximum time before the next tournament


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			i understand that the golden waistcoat may have a system in mind. If he does, why does he insist on putting square pegs in round holes. I feel the last few games have been all about trying to save face and not build a system that we can carry into the World Cup. I honestly do not have a clue what system we are trying to play.
		
Click to expand...

IMHO he does this because he has a lack of tactical nous and hes out of his depth as an international manager.

If he was sacked tomorrow, i cant think of any PL Club who would want to employ him.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			What I don't get is TAA is rightly called out for being great going forward but *bang average defending.* However we then set up in a system with 3 Cbs that would completely suit him !

Now however isn't the time to change managers

Regardless if he wins to world cup I think it's time to change post quatar to give the new manager maximum time before the next tournament
		
Click to expand...

He's not bang average. He may be lacking a bit of form etc but to suggest he is bang average is laughable. 

That said you are entitled to you opinion however crazy it may be😉


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He's not bang average. He may be lacking a bit of form etc but to suggest he is bang average is laughable.

That said you are entitled to you opinion however crazy it may be😉
		
Click to expand...

Is it form defensively or a weakness that's been highlighted? It's been going on for seasons where he is fantastic going forward but defensively gaps are left by him.

As I said 3 at back negates that but yet we don't play him


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Is it form defensively or a weakness that's been highlighted? It's been going on for seasons where he is fantastic going forward but defensively gaps are left by him.

As I said 3 at back negates that but yet we don't play him
		
Click to expand...

His stats prove otherwise.

He's made 2 errors leading to goals this season, Maguire made 2 in 30 minutes😁😁

There's a myth being floated about he cant defend etc and its lazy but if you actually watch him and see the positions he takes up for Liverpool you will see.

When hes high up the pitch and we lose possession it looks worse. Its how Klopp wants him to play. 

He's in this Liverpool side to be creative and attacking  first and foremost, its the style of football. It may suit some, others not so much.

That said, i accept he should at times do better but to suggest he's a bang average defender is silly.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2022)

Danny Mills on Talksport proving just because you've played the game it doesnt automatically prove you know the game.🤣🤣


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Danny Mills on Talksport proving just because you've played the game it doesnt automatically prove you know the game.🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Could say same about going to watch the games 😉


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 27, 2022)

Watched some of the game and tbh didn’t think the teams were that great…yes I know…that coming from a Scot…let’s see how my boys suffer this evening.


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## Slime (Sep 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Danny Mills on Talksport proving just because you've played the game it doesnt automatically prove you know the game.🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

That could apply to many on here!


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## AmandaJR (Sep 27, 2022)

At least I won't have high expectations at the World Cup. Nor will I be putting a wallchart up!


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## Bdill93 (Sep 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			His stats prove otherwise.

He's made 2 errors leading to goals this season, Maguire made 2 in 30 minutes😁😁

There's a myth being floated about he cant defend etc and its lazy but if you actually watch him and see the positions he takes up for Liverpool you will see.

When hes high up the pitch and we lose possession it looks worse. Its how Klopp wants him to play.

He's in this Liverpool side to be creative and attacking  first and foremost, its the style of football. It may suit some, others not so much.

That said, i accept he should at times do better but to suggest he's a bang average defender is silly.
		
Click to expand...

This morning I've clearly chosen violence as I'm sending a link from the Sun to a Liverpool fan  - But the stats are there to see. 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/18066115/liverpool-trent-alexander-arnold-england-defensive-stats/

He's a bad defender. If you want him in the England side (which I also do) he needs to change position. 

He's also had no assists yet so far this season so overall just in a bad run of form generally I think.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 27, 2022)

TAA best right back in the world 🤣🤣

Next someone will be telling us Pope is better than Pickford!


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## theoneandonly (Sep 27, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			TAA best right back in the world 🤣🤣

Next someone will be telling us Pope is better than Pickford!
		
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Still dining out on that corner V Barcelona


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## Swango1980 (Sep 27, 2022)

Pickford is prone to errors. So some say Pope should he No.1 because apparently he isn't.

Pickford might be one of the few goalkeepers for England where to position doesn't feel too big for him. Many good goalkeepers look nervy as heck playing for England, whereas Pickford seems to have a mentality where it doesn't phase him. Even if he did make an error, I'd be confident it would diminish his performance thereafter. Water of a ducks back.

I could see a reason for Maguire being picked last season. However, now he is no longer playing at club level, he must be living on borrowed time. 

I'm shocked Toney didn't get a chance.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 27, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			TAA best right back in the world 🤣🤣

Next someone will be telling us Pope is better than Pickford!
		
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https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/amazing-trent-alexander-arnold-plays-like-i-did-cafu

but what does Cafu know 

I’m not sure why the knives are out for TAA but it shows the issue with England and fans 

TAA is a huge talent and has proven it against the biggest teams in club football - yet because a tactically inept manager doesn’t know how to play the best players he is being destroyed by imo club rival fans who can’t take club loyalty out of it when it comes to England 

James has made as many errors as TAA -defending but TAA is better on the ball 

What James and Walker do have over TAA is pace - which allows them to get back to cover

That’s the biggest issue with TAA - he plays high to create so when play breaks down quickly he looks out of position - at Liverpool the likes of Henderson and Fabinho cover for him and also the pace and ability of VVD can cover .

England have cart horses like Maguire at CB who can’t cover a tent - he is poor on the ball and even worse in the tackle. If England looked at players like Tomori then you could play more attacking right backs and also left back. 

But England right now don’t have an identity or a clue on how to play - they use 5 at the back to cover poor CBs and then allow Rice etc to go forward to try and create 

It’s a shame Gomez can’t get his form because he has the pace to cover 

This would be a better England team imo 

Pickford 

TAA
Gomez/Tomori
Stones 
Chilwell/Shaw

Rice 
Bellingham 
Maddison/Mount 

Sterling/Saka
Kane
Foden


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Danny Mills on Talksport proving just because you've played the game it doesnt automatically prove you know the game.🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Didn't hear, but if it's anything like Le Socks on C4 last night....


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2022)

TAA's advantages far out way his negatives.


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## Beezerk (Sep 27, 2022)

^^^^^^
You’re missing the massive point that TAA falls asleep at crucial parts of the game and fails in his basic defensive duties. Got caught out in the CL final and has done plenty more times by not being aware of danger.
It’s ok him smashing it going forward and getting cover from CB’s but when the chips are down and you need all 11 players right on it, he’s not the man for the job.


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## Beezerk (Sep 27, 2022)

Piece said:



			TAA's advantages far out way his negatives.
		
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He’s just Maguire with pace, there I said it 😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm shocked Toney didn't get a chance.
		
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Kane gets injured between now and the first game. Who does Gareth pick? How does he fit in?

Absolutely crazy that neither Toney or Abraham got any game time. Two meaningless matches, warm ups, and they were not used


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			^^^^^^
You’re missing the massive point that *TAA falls asleep at crucial parts of the game and fails in his basic defensive duties.* Got caught out in the CL final and has done plenty more times by not being aware of danger.
It’s ok him smashing it going forward and getting cover from CB’s but when the chips are down and you need all 11 players right on it, he’s not the man for the job.
		
Click to expand...

So does Kyle Walker. So does John Stones. So does Luke Shaw.

I prefer to think positive when the chips are up, he's our better option. After all, Gareth plays three at the back so that suits TAA for England?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2022)

Piece said:



			So does Kyle Walker. So does John Stones. So does Luke Shaw.

I prefer to think positive when the chips are up, he's our better option. After all, Gareth plays three at the back so that suits TAA for England?
		
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step to far.

if he already playing shaw, walker, stones and then the walking mistake of maguire imagine adding TAA.. would be more holes in the back line than a block of swiss cheese


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			step to far.

if he already playing shaw, walker, stones and then the walking mistake of maguire imagine adding TAA.. would be more holes in the back line than a block of swiss cheese
		
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I don't disagree, but why do Shaw, Maguire, get a free pass but TAA doesn't?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2022)

Piece said:



			I don't disagree, but why do Shaw, Maguire, get a free pass but TAA doesn't?
		
Click to expand...

lack of options most likely. if chillwell hadnt got injured he would have been first choice imo he is fantastic going forward and defending 

walker is actually a very good defender 

jones no idea. prob years of carrying maigure.

we need better CBs. dier is prob our best atm and thats saying something because hes hardly a terry or a rio. or even a jamie carrager standard.


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## Beezerk (Sep 27, 2022)

Piece said:



			So does Kyle Walker. So does John Stones. So does Luke Shaw.

I prefer to think positive when the chips are up, he's our better option. After all, Gareth plays three at the back so that suits TAA for England?
		
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Agree about Walker, not really a fan of his to be honest.
Btw my reply wasn’t to you 😂


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## pokerjoke (Sep 27, 2022)

Piece said:



			I don't disagree, but why do Shaw, Maguire, get a free pass but TAA doesn't?
		
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Southgate will get sacked after the World Cup or he will walk,there’s no doubt about that.
Will be interesting to see who takes over and wether he makes big changes.
Maguire should never have been starting.
Shaw does add balance,can defend,and is fit enough to get forward.
TAA is the best passer of the ball,probably in world football,however his defensive duties betray him and he leaves gaping holes,Gareth has decided he doesn’t want that,Klopp seems not too bothered,although lately it’s costing Liverpool.
Saka imo on the right is almost world class,why Southgate stuck him on the left the other night I’m not sure.
Pope will be out when Pickford is fit,imo Pickford is easily No1.
We did well to fight back to lead last night,however Southgate has to learn from it,or we are not going to be in the World Cup long.


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## Bdill93 (Sep 27, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Southgate will get sacked after the World Cup or he will walk,there’s no doubt about that.
Will be interesting to see who takes over and wether he makes big changes.
Maguire should never have been starting.
Shaw does add balance,can defend,and is fit enough to get forward.
*TAA is the best passer of the ball,probably in world football*,however his defensive duties betray him and he leaves gaping holes,Gareth has decided he doesn’t want that,Klopp seems not too bothered,although lately it’s costing Liverpool.
Saka imo on the right is almost world class,why Southgate stuck him on the left the other night I’m not sure.
Pope will be out when Pickford is fit,imo Pickford is easily No1.
We did well to fight back to lead last night,however Southgate has to learn from it,or we are not going to be in the World Cup long.
		
Click to expand...

I was just sick in my mouth a little. 

Messi, Modric, KDB to name a few...


----------



## Piece (Sep 27, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Agree about Walker, not really a fan of his to be honest.
*Btw my reply wasn’t to you* 😂
		
Click to expand...


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## pokerjoke (Sep 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I was just sick in my mouth a little. 

Messi, Modric, KDB to name a few...
		
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Don’t think there’s a pass Trent can’t make that they can tbh
KDB would be my pick though of those you mention.
Messi imo would be more of a dribbler than passer


----------



## Bdill93 (Sep 27, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Don’t think there’s a pass Trent can’t make that they can tbh
KDB would be my pick though of those you mention.
Messi imo would be more of a dribbler than passer
		
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Its Linekar that always tweets about Messi's passing - I think statistically he's pretty insane - we just don't see it often.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Its Linekar that always tweets about Messi's passing - I think statistically he's pretty insane - we just don't see it often.
		
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Well I don’t need Twitter
Twits with infinite time to entertain rubbish
I see it with my own eyes
If you need Twitter or Linekar then I’ve just puked up.


----------



## Neilds (Sep 27, 2022)

Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't , Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, Yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't

That should save a few of you a few posts about whether player A is better or worse than Player B

Thank me later


----------



## Bdill93 (Sep 27, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Well I don’t need Twitter
Twats with infinite time to entertain rubbish
I see it with my own eyes
If you need Twitter or Linekar then I’ve just puked up.
		
Click to expand...

Hahaha I don't need either but stats don't lie. 

I also see football with my own eyes on a very regular basis - but never had the pleasure of Messi playing in the PL so clips it has to be!


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## BiMGuy (Sep 27, 2022)

TAA is not only the best defender, but now the best passer of a ball in the world. 🥹😂🤣 

Someone is on a windup, has been on the sauce or has only watched Liverpool play. Have another 🤣


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## pokerjoke (Sep 27, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			TAA is not only the best defender, but now the best passer of a ball in the world. 🥹😂🤣

Someone is on a windup, has been on the sauce or has only watched Liverpool play. Have another 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Did Klopp say both?
I never


----------



## hairball_89 (Sep 27, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			At least I won't have high expectations at the World Cup. Nor will I be putting a wallchart up!
		
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lack of expectations is totally fair. But a world cup without a wall chart?! wash your mouth out!


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			He’s just Maguire with pace, there I said it 😂
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			This morning I've clearly chosen violence as I'm sending a link from the Sun to a Liverpool fan  - But the stats are there to see.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/18066115/liverpool-trent-alexander-arnold-england-defensive-stats/

He's a bad defender. If you want him in the England side (which I also do) he needs to change position.

He's also had no assists yet so far this season so overall just in a bad run of form generally I think.
		
Click to expand...

I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than click on that link. 

I dont want TAA nowhere near the England team. I think his current form is below his usual standard at the minute and i think not going the world cup  will only benefit us.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			This morning I've clearly chosen violence as I'm sending a link from the Sun to a Liverpool fan  - But the stats are there to see.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/18066115/liverpool-trent-alexander-arnold-england-defensive-stats/

He's a bad defender. If you want him in the England side (which I also do) he needs to change position.

He's also had no assists yet so far this season so overall just in a bad run of form generally I think.
		
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why would you even think someone would use them 

here are some others 

https://one-versus-one.com/en/players/Trent-Alexander-Arnold

https://www.empireofthekop.com/2022...nglish-right-backs-in-the-premier-league/amp/

https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool...alexander-arnold-liverpool-klopp-25069039.amp


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			This morning I've clearly chosen violence as I'm sending a link from the Sun to a Liverpool fan  - But the stats are there to see.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/18066115/liverpool-trent-alexander-arnold-england-defensive-stats/

He's a bad defender. If you want him in the England side (which I also do) he needs to change position.

He's also had no assists yet so far this season so overall just in a bad run of form generally I think.
		
Click to expand...

I understand why some won't click on the link given it's source but at least you acknowledge that in passing at least. Funny others ignore it because it doesn't fit an agenda and so has to find anything to offer an alternative. So tiring when people can't accept an alternative point of view on ANY subject and that perhaps others have points of merit. Think in this case you're flogging a dead horse


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## 4LEX (Sep 27, 2022)

Really entertaining game, especially the second half. Thought we dominated the whole match and if Sterling was in form we would've been 2-0 up at half time. Defensively it was a car crash but midfield and attack wise we looked a top side.

I think Foden has no place in the side, he just unbalances the midfield and lacks pace. Too many sideways passes and not suited to the system. Not a huge Saka fan but you can see the difference pace makes and he looked good when he came on.

My World Cup side if everyones fully fit....

4231

Pickford

Walker
Stones
Dier
Shaw

Rice
Phillips

Saka
Bellingham
Sterling

Kane

That would be it for the group games or against weaker sides. Lots of question marks over the defence which is a huge weak link. If Southgate goes 352 then you've got to have TAA as I don't think you can trust Jame's crossing these days. It's gone downhill and he rarely beats the first man.


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## nickjdavis (Sep 27, 2022)

Watching the U21's against Germany

Folarin Balogun looks like some talent...a real handful, fast, good movement and knows where the goal is (5 goals in 6 games at Reims, 7 in 13 now for the U21's).

I guess though that his movement is enough however to ensure he wont play for the full England team any time soon as it goes against their identity.  Likewise, Harvey Elliott and Connor Gallagher appear to be too positive and forward thinking to have a chance of fitting into Southgates plans.


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## fundy (Sep 27, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Watching the U21's against Germany

Folarin Balogun looks like some talent...a real handful, fast, good movement and knows where the goal is (5 goals in 6 games at Reims, 7 in 13 now for the U21's).

I guess though that his movement is enough however to ensure he wont play for the full England team any time soon as it goes against their identity.  Likewise, Harvey Elliott and Connor Gallagher appear to be too positive and forward thinking to have a chance of fitting into Southgates plans.
		
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Balogun wasnt physically strong enough to compete in the championship for Boro end of last season and behind Nketiah in the Arsenal pecking order (who also scored hatfuls at U21 for England). Long long way from full England recognition, albeit highly talented (and thought of at Arsenal)


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## Golfmmad (Sep 27, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Really entertaining game, especially the second half. Thought we dominated the whole match and if Sterling was in form we would've been 2-0 up at half time. Defensively it was a car crash but midfield and attack wise we looked a top side.

I think Foden has no place in the side, he just unbalances the midfield and lacks pace. Too many sideways passes and not suited to the system. Not a huge Saka fan but you can see the difference pace makes and he looked good when he came on.

My World Cup side if everyones fully fit....

4231

Pickford

Walker
Stones
Dier
Shaw

Rice
Phillips

Saka
Bellingham
Sterling

Kane

That would be it for the group games or against weaker sides. Lots of question marks over the defence which is a huge weak link. If Southgate goes 352 then you've got to have TAA as I don't think you can trust Jame's crossing these days. It's gone downhill and he rarely beats the first man.
		
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Finally some positive thoughts on England's performance. 👍 
Agree with what you say, it's not all doom and gloom.


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## IanM (Sep 27, 2022)

Good to see Nike have made a worse job of the Portugal shirt than the England one!


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2022)

Southgate on Maguire - "Why do we pick him? Because he’s one of the players who gives us the best chance of winning. So really we should all be wanting a Harry Maguire that’s playing regularly and playing with confidence."

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Nurse Nurse, he's not took his medicine...


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## pokerjoke (Sep 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Southgate on Maguire - "Why do we pick him? Because he’s one of the players who gives us the best chance of winning. So really we should all be wanting a Harry Maguire that’s playing regularly and playing with confidence."

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Nurse Nurse, he's not took his medicine...
		
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Deluded isn’t he.
He’s not playing he has no confidence,his club manager has no confidence in him,but Southgate plays him.
Sooner Southgate has gone the better.
He’s got to many favourites he feels are undroppable,a recipe for disaster.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



*Deluded isn’t he.*
He’s not playing he has no confidence,his club manager has no confidence in him,but Southgate plays him.
Sooner Southgate has gone the better.
He’s got to many favourites he feels are undroppable,a recipe for disaster.
		
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Or he thinks everyone else is stupid.


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## Fromtherough (Sep 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Balogun wasnt physically strong enough to compete in the championship for Boro end of last season and behind Nketiah in the Arsenal pecking order (who also scored hatfuls at U21 for England). Long long way from full England recognition, albeit highly talented (and thought of at Arsenal)
		
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Balogun looked average for a large part of his loan spell with Boro. Not one I’d particularly think will kick on to greatness.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 30, 2022)

Bit of a bump for a thread some of us have missed 😉


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## Slime (Sep 30, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Bit of a bump for a thread some of us have missed 😉
		
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Is that it?
I thought were coming on to congratulate Rashford and Ten Hag for winning Player and Manager of the Month awards.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 30, 2022)

Slime said:



			Is that it?
I thought were coming on to congratulate Rashford and Ten Hag for winning Player and Manager of the Month awards. 

Click to expand...

Even I cannot find anything funnier than that, even though TH was supposed to be a rubbish manager 😉


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			TAA has never been a great defender
Sometimes not even good
Exposed many many times
Klopps delusional comment that he was the best RB in the world,perhaps then Klopp should have went as obviously he was blinkered.
I believe he will never play consistently for England under Southgate as defending is his priority.
TAA going forward is the best since Beckham but unfortunately it’s not enough.
If they had a central defender who covered for him well it will work better,but they haven’t.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			If you went the game you'd see exactly who covers for him and its certainly not a Central defender 😉

It's the right sided  CM who usually slots in there and fills the gap. As we're currently carrying a midfield thats not fit for purpose, he then gets exposed for being "out of position" but in the tactical plan he's not.

That game last night Trent heads it back to Gomez to retain possesion. 9 out of 10 times Gomez either plays it back to Trent and he's in the right position to restart an attack or Gomez sends it back the keeper and we restart an attack.

What i can't accept nor do i think Klopp would either is his lacklustre jog back to defend.

For 45 minutes every game Klopp sees TAA's position right in front of him. If he thought he shouldnt be were he wanted him Klopp would bollock him 100%.
		
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@pokerjoke Here's Klopp yesterday explaining precisely what i was trying to explain a few weeks ago.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575961181688397826

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576103033607372800


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## Swango1980 (Oct 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



@pokerjoke Here's Klopp yesterday explaining precisely what i was trying to explain a few weeks ago.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575961181688397826

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576103033607372800

Click to expand...

I'd hardly expect Klopp or many Liverpool fans to come out and say "TAA is a rubbish defender" . That would be an absurd thing to say, even if it was true relative to other players in the league. Despite being a poor defender, there is clearly a reason why he is in Liverpool's side, as the way they play utilises his ability to cross a ball. 

Perhaps if Southgate was more adventurous, and wanted to focus on attacking football, TAA would be a viable option. But, he isn't that type of manager, and clearly doesn't fancy TAA as good a defender as some Liverpool fans think he is. Not compared to other options Southgate has anyway


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd hardly expect Klopp or many Liverpool fans to come out and say "TAA is a rubbish defender" . That would be an absurd thing to say, even if it was true relative to other players in the league. *Despite being a poor defender,* there is clearly a reason why he is in Liverpool's side, as the way they play utilises his ability to cross a ball.

Perhaps if Southgate was more adventurous, and wanted to focus on attacking football, TAA would be a viable option. But, he isn't that type of manager, and clearly doesn't fancy TAA as good a defender as some Liverpool fans think he is. Not compared to other options Southgate has anyway
		
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Please stop with the hyperbolic nonesense. 

Klopp has said in that interview that his defending needs improving, nobody is saying anything different. 

Klopp is explaining the tactical reason why he allows TAA to be so high. 

Generally fans expect him to be an out and out RB. He's not and Klopp has clarified that. Its rare managers do this.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Please stop with the hyperbolic nonesense. 

Klopp has said in that interview that his defending needs improving, nobody is saying anything different. 

Klopp is explaining the tactical reason why he allows TAA to be so high. 

Generally fans expect him to be an out and out RB. He's not and Klopp has clarified that. Its rare managers do this.
		
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Maybe if you read my very last line, you'd have been able to see the context of the highlighted statement better.

I'm not saying he is a poor defender relative to me, some amateur league defender or even a lower league defender. I'm saying he is relatively poor in comparison to other players playing for teams playing at the highest level. I think we all recognise why he plays for Liverpool, and it isn't for being a quality defender. It is primarily for attacking qualities


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## fundy (Oct 1, 2022)

We need to turn possession into goals, so open to the counter with the high line again


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd hardly expect Klopp or many Liverpool fans to come out and say "TAA is a rubbish defender" . That would be an absurd thing to say, even if it was true relative to other players in the league. Despite being a poor defender, there is clearly a reason why he is in Liverpool's side, as the way they play utilises his ability to cross a ball. 

Perhaps if Southgate was more adventurous, and wanted to focus on attacking football, TAA would be a viable option. But, he isn't that type of manager, and clearly doesn't fancy TAA as good a defender as some Liverpool fans think he is. Not compared to other options Southgate has anyway
		
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Yes I can see your logic.
But TAA isn’t really a full back in the proper sense of the position.
But just maybe that’s why England havnt scored from open play for a very long spell until Tuesday.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 1, 2022)

Whilst you two are having a slapping match. The bottom line for me is this.

Who would you prefer as an England manager. Klopp or Southgate. For me hands down it is Klopp.

The very fact that Southgate cannot play him ( TAA) in the current England set up speaks volumes. Whatever that setup is🤔, furthermore he cannot even include him in the squad for plan B. If Southgate does have one that is. Name one player that Southgate gets more out of when he plays for England. He must be demoralising to play under. Whichever team he plays carries Southgate. Could you imagine Klopp, Pep, and half a dozen Prem managers being given the generation of players we have at our disposal at the moment.


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## fundy (Oct 1, 2022)

We just love to shoot ourselves in the foot sigh

*Apologies for talking about the football going on


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Whilst you two are having a slapping match. The bottom line for me is this.

Who would you prefer as an England manager. Klopp or Southgate. For me hands down it is Klopp.

The very fact that Southgate cannot play him ( TAA) in the current England set up speaks volumes. Whatever that setup is🤔, furthermore he cannot even include him in the squad for plan B. If Southgate does have one that is. Name one player that Southgate gets more out of when he plays for England. He must be demoralising to play under. Whichever team he plays carries Southgate. Could you imagine Klopp, Pep, and half a dozen Prem managers being given the generation of players we have at our disposal at the moment.
		
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I can name one!
Maguire as TH dosnt play him.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Please stop with the hyperbolic nonesense.

Klopp has said in that interview that his defending needs improving, nobody is saying anything different.

Klopp is explaining the tactical reason why he allows TAA to be so high.

Generally fans expect him to be an out and out RB. He's not and Klopp has clarified that. Its rare managers do this.
		
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Why did Klopp call him the best RB in the world then?


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## Swango1980 (Oct 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I can name one!
Maguire as TH dosnt play him.
		
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Perhaps could put Luke Shaw in that category? Pickford?


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## Tashyboy (Oct 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I can name one!
Maguire as TH dosnt play him.
		
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😂😂😂😂😂😂👍


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## Tashyboy (Oct 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Perhaps could put Luke Shaw in that category? Pickford?
		
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Yeah but there all form players according to the golden waistcoat.😉


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Perhaps could put Luke Shaw in that category? Pickford?
		
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Pickford plays every week.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd hardly expect Klopp or many Liverpool fans to come out and say "TAA is a rubbish defender" . That would be an absurd thing to say, even if it was true relative to other players in the league. Despite being a poor defender, there is clearly a reason why he is in Liverpool's side, as the way they play utilises his ability to cross a ball.

Perhaps if Southgate was more adventurous, and wanted to focus on attacking football, TAA would be a viable option. But, he isn't that type of manager, and clearly doesn't fancy TAA as good a defender as some Liverpool fans think he is. Not compared to other options Southgate has anyway
		
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Yes I saw the interview Stu,however I don’t believe a word he says.
TAA the best RB in the world 
Origi is world class
Who can believe someone who comes out with such nonsense.


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## fundy (Oct 1, 2022)

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Saka been excellent today despite having 2 on him all day


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## Swango1980 (Oct 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Pickford plays every week.
		
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Yes, but I thought the question was about club versus England form, not playing time. I know Pickford has good games at Everton, but it is also probably club form that gives him a reputation of being a liability to some.


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## fundy (Oct 1, 2022)

Not only us that self destructs lol


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## Swango1980 (Oct 1, 2022)

Have they changed the red card rule since Van Dijk got away with it Scot free?


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## fundy (Oct 1, 2022)

Its been a long while but I just cheered Granit Xhaka 

Get in ya beauty


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 1, 2022)

Any truth in the rumours that Anthony Taylor actually saw a red card offence that was right under his nose and actually dealt with it?


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## fundy (Oct 1, 2022)

Conte needs more defenders at 3-1 down lol


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## Swango1980 (Oct 1, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Any truth in the rumours that Anthony Taylor actually saw a red card offence that was right under his nose and actually dealt with it?
		
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He seemed to take a while to give it. Almost like there was a word in his ear by an assistant


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## Orikoru (Oct 1, 2022)

I can't see how that's a red for Royal. It's just a lazy tackle, he's stuck a leg out but he's not dived in, he's on his feet. Just caught his ankle with the studs as he goes past - red card?? Dear me. Only silver lining of that mess is that he'll now be suspended though so every cloud.


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## paddyc (Oct 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its been a long while but I just cheered Granit Xhaka 

Get in ya beauty
		
Click to expand...

Don't believe  yer mate


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## pokerjoke (Oct 1, 2022)

Trent’s on fire 😀


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## SteveW86 (Oct 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I can't see how that's a red for Royal. It's just a lazy tackle, he's stuck a leg out but he's not dived in, he's on his feet. Just caught his ankle with the studs as he goes past - red card?? Dear me. Only silver lining of that mess is that he'll now be suspended though so every cloud. 

Click to expand...

Take your rose tinted glasses off, it was a clear red card. That “lazy” tackle could see a player out of 6 months.


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## Orikoru (Oct 1, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Take your rose tinted glasses off, it was a clear red card. That “lazy” tackle could see a player out of 6 months.
		
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Don't be silly. He's not dived in with any force he just stuck a leg out as he ran past and caught him. I've seen so many worse tackles that players haven't been red carded for.


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## Jensen (Oct 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Don't be silly. He's not dived in with any force he just stuck a leg out as he ran past and caught him. I've seen so many worse tackles that players haven't been red carded for.
		
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Didn’t see the game, as thankfully I was on the golf course 😄
Although I have an idea, tell me how where Spurs on the eye ?
Was there any slick silky football 🤔


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## fundy (Oct 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Didn’t see the game, as thankfully I was on the golf course 😄
Although I have an idea, tell me how where Spurs on the eye ?
*Was there any slick silky football *🤔
		
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There was plenty, very little of it by Spurs though


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## Orikoru (Oct 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Didn’t see the game, as thankfully I was on the golf course 😄
Although I have an idea, tell me how where Spurs on the eye ?
Was there any slick silky football 🤔
		
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I missed a lot of the first half. Last 20 mins of it was pretty end to end. Second half we just did absolutely nothing.


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## Jensen (Oct 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I missed a lot of the first half. Last 20 mins of it was pretty end to end. Second half we just did absolutely nothing.
		
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So even at 2 and 3 down, Conte continued to play counter attacking football ? 
🤔🤔🥱🥱


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## fundy (Oct 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			So even at 2 and 3 down, Conte continued to play counter attacking football ?
🤔🤔🥱🥱
		
Click to expand...


Lol no he didnt even do that, with 20 mins to go he took off Richarlison, Son + 3 others and brought on Sanchez, Bissouma, Sessegnon, Doherty and Skipp lol

Ended the game with 5 defenders, 3 holding midfielders and Kane


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## Jensen (Oct 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			Lol no he didnt even do that, with 20 mins to go he took off Richarlison, Son + 3 others and brought on Sanchez, Bissouma, Sessegnon, Doherty and Skipp lol

Ended the game with 5 defenders, 3 holding midfielders and Kane
		
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Give me a Spaniard over an Italian all day long 😁

It’s like a total reverse, we’re playing football like George Graham style and you’re like Pochettino 🙄🙄


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## Swango1980 (Oct 1, 2022)

Not seen the game today, but twitter seems to suggest TAA had a shocker in defence today. I'll not hang my hat on that, but Liverpoolphil often uses twitter as a reliable source of information, so I guess there might be some truth in it.

Just annoyed I had Trossard on my bench for fantasy football.


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## Slime (Oct 1, 2022)

Can anyone please remind me why United were stupid in not employing Conte as their manager?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 1, 2022)

In the meantime, Super Frank continues the Blue revolution 😆


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, but I thought the question was about club versus England form, not playing time. I know Pickford has good games at Everton, but it is also probably club form that gives him a reputation of being a liability to some.
		
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Yes but up to now he hasn’t let England down in any way.
You can’t say that about Pope.!
I am sure all keepers have good and bad days, all footballers do,.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but up to now he hasn’t let England down in any way.
You can’t say that about Pope.!
I am sure all keepers have good and bad days, all footballers do,.
		
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And that was exactly my point


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## Orikoru (Oct 1, 2022)

Jensen said:



			So even at 2 and 3 down, Conte continued to play counter attacking football ?
🤔🤔🥱🥱
		
Click to expand...

No. We didn't play any football.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 1, 2022)

Not a Liverpool comment in site 😀
#whenitsuits
Wait until tomorrow 😉


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Not seen the game today, but twitter seems to suggest TAA had a shocker in defence today. I'll not hang my hat on that, but Liverpoolphil often uses twitter as a reliable source of information, so I guess there might be some truth in it.

Just annoyed I had Trossard on my bench for fantasy football.
		
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I took Trossard out a few weeks ago.

On TAA today, i thought he played well. 

He was in a great defensive position for the 1st goal,cleared the header into the area were Henderson shouldve been stronger. Henderson loses the ball and TAA slips. Certainly not his fault

Not his fault for the 2nd, Matip never tracked the runner and the 3rd i dont know what VVD and Milner were doing.

But obviously twitter know better 🤷🏼

Brighton are a very good side. Very impressed with them.

We were comfortable at 3-2, Klopp makes unnecessary changes and we started to make stupid errors.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Not a Liverpool comment in site 😀
#whenitsuits
Wait until tomorrow 😉
		
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Literally just got back from the game, quick shower and change back out for a do tonight. 

Thought Brighton were excellent and probably deserved to win on the balance of play.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 1, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I took Trossard out a few weeks ago.

On TAA today, i thought he played well. 

He was in a great defensive position for the 1st goal,cleared the header into the area were Henderson shouldve been stronger. Henderson loses the ball and TAA slips. Certainly not his fault

Not his fault for the 2nd, Matip never tracked the runner and the 3rd i dont know what VVD and Milner were doing.

But obviously twitter know better 🤷🏼

Brighton are a very good side. Very impressed with them.

We were comfortable at 3-2, Klopp makes unnecessary changes and we started to make stupid errors.
		
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Interesting. This is Anfield, Liverpool Echo and Liverpool World all gave him a 4 out of 10, and were extremely critical. Words like "awful" and a "performance to forget" were used.

Yet to find any reports that he had a decent game. Certainly defensively. Only positive I heard was he put in at least 1 decent corner.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 1, 2022)

Vital 3 points today 

Good goal from Bowen to boost his confidence but scamacca... Take a bow son. Finally we have a striker and it allows Antonio to come on when the defence is knackered to cause trouble ..


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## Bazzatron (Oct 1, 2022)

Lage out. Dreadful manager, holding the best squad we've ever had back. 
The best midfielder we've ever had, playing at centre half.


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## srixon 1 (Oct 1, 2022)

Just watching a rerun of the Liverpool Brighton match. One of the Liverpool players is rolling around on the floor holding his shin after a bad tackle. He is not wearing shin pads. Serves him right. I hope it hurt like hell.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 1, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			Just watching a rerun of the Liverpool Brighton match. One of the Liverpool players is rolling around on the floor holding his shin after a bad tackle. He is not wearing shin pads. Serves him right. I hope it hurt like hell.
		
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How did the ref let him on the pitch? You have had to wear shin pads since 1990


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## Swango1980 (Oct 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			How did the ref let him on the pitch? You have had to wear shin pads since 1990
		
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I wouldn't be surprised if it is TAA. He wears shin pads, but they barely go much above his ankle.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Don't be silly. He's not dived in with any force he just stuck a leg out as he ran past and caught him. I've seen so many worse tackles that players haven't been red carded for.
		
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He deserved to be sent off for being thick. It was reckless. It was not even a challenge. If he wanted to stop play do it like Fernandinho etc. it was studs down the side of the leg/ ankle and he gave the ref no option. If that challenge was on Kane I would of said the same.


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## srixon 1 (Oct 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wouldn't be surprised if it is TAA. He wears shin pads, but they barely go much above his ankle.
		
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It wasn’t TAA. Not sure who it was.


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## Beezerk (Oct 2, 2022)

Good 3 points for the Owls at Port Vale 😬


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Interesting. This is Anfield, Liverpool Echo and Liverpool World all gave him a 4 out of 10, and were extremely critical. Words like "awful" and a "performance to forget" were used.

Yet to find any reports that he had a decent game. Certainly defensively. Only positive I heard was he put in at least 1 decent corner.
		
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I dont know who This is Anfield or Liverpool world tbh. The oldham Echo are entitled to their opinion, giving him a 4 is over the top. I thought he was worthy of a 6.5 in all honesty. Not great, not bad  but always looked a threat going forward.

They're entitled to their opinion though it doesnt make them wrong or right.

I know what i seen from him today and it wasnt a 4. The whole team were probably a 6.

*edit* ive just read the Echo's write up of TAA performance and i can gaurantee his performance was better than the 3 Ian Doyle has given him.

I watched Hodgson's 5 months with Konchesky at fullback and TAA was comfortably better than the shite they served up.


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## 4LEX (Oct 2, 2022)

Big few games for Liverpool coming up, Arsenal and City. 

Something doesn't seem right at Liverpool to me, it's similar to that spell at the end of the 20-21 season.


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## Orikoru (Oct 2, 2022)

In case anyone missed the latest episode of Klopp's Excuses, here it is.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He deserved to be sent off for being thick. It was reckless. It was not even a challenge. If he wanted to stop play do it like Fernandinho etc. it was studs down the side of the leg/ ankle and he gave the ref no option. If that challenge was on Kane I would of said the same.
		
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He deserved to be sent off for being thick😂 I like that quote, trouble is he would be sent off in most games.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Vital 3 points today

Good goal from Bowen to boost his confidence but scamacca... Take a bow son. Finally we have a striker and it allows Antonio to come on when the defence is knackered to cause trouble ..
		
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Good performance’s from Bowen and Soucek were a big plus. Scamacca showed he is going to be a handful for defenders and Fornals played well when he came on but imo the overall performance today was pretty bloody desperate. Wolves were understrength but still passed the ball around us with some ease. Fortunately they lacked a cutting edge.

Next game in the PL is Fulham. And they've got Mitrovic who seems to be on fire!


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## Tashyboy (Oct 2, 2022)

Not good news in Indonesia re the deaths at a game.☹️


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## pauljames87 (Oct 2, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Good performance’s from Bowen and Soucek were a big plus. Scamacca showed he is going to be a handful for defenders and Fornals played well when he came on but imo the overall performance today was pretty bloody desperate. Wolves were understrength but still passed the ball around us with some ease. Fortunately they lacked a cutting edge.

Next game in the PL is Fulham. And they've got Mitrovic who seems to be on fire!
		
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Soucek must be rested mid week for me, the guy has been run into the ground the past couple years and then made a scapegoat

He needs to Thursday off to be fully fit for Sunday 

Felt for cornet , he got no luck .. knocked out one game.. goal wrongly disallowed another game.. taken out this game


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not good news in Indonesia re the deaths at a game.☹️
		
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Yes read that report this morning 
Shocking scenes and 174 needless deaths.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			In case anyone missed the latest episode of Klopp's Excuses, here it is. 

View attachment 44625

Click to expand...

It’s quite amazing how things change so quick in football.
Everyone highlighting Liverpool’s problems down the right hand side,and absolutely nothing being done about it,it’s been happening for months and I highlighted it,however one of the best managers in the world can’t see it,or do anything about it.
VVD has gone from the best CB in the world to a very ordinary player making some serious mistakes.
No title this year for sure and a big fight for CL football.
Long may it continue.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 2, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			It’s quite amazing how things change so quick in football.
Everyone highlighting Liverpool’s problems down the right hand side,and absolutely nothing being done about it,it’s been happening for months and I highlighted it,however one of the best managers in the world can’t see it,or do anything about it.
VVD has gone from the best CB in the world to a very ordinary player making some serious mistakes.
No title this year for sure and a big fight for CL football.
Long may it continue.
		
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Much as it's good to see are we not just having a transition season? I mean Henderson isn't the player he was and replacing him isn't easy. Mane was such a key player and caused problems up top .. which now he is gone Diaz is a class player but does he do the same work rate or lose the ball more often?

Vvd has had more defensive partners than a strickly professional

Trent is out of form but the whole defensive unit doesn't look it's normal self 

I'm sure come end of season they will have clicked again.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Much as it's good to see are we not just having a transition season? I mean Henderson isn't the player he was and replacing him isn't easy. Mane was such a key player and caused problems up top .. which now he is gone Diaz is a class player but does he do the same work rate or lose the ball more often?

Vvd has had more defensive partners than a strickly professional

Trent is out of form but the whole defensive unit doesn't look it's normal self

I'm sure come end of season they will have clicked again.
		
Click to expand...

Agree VVD partners,but his levels have dropped.
Mane massive loss
Salah has not been his great normal self for months,chucks in the odd good game here and there.
I personally don’t see them winning anything or clicking again this season.
Certainly not a bad team,just not the great team they have been.
Run into the ground playing the high press,and Shearer highlighted it last night.


----------



## fundy (Oct 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not good news in Indonesia re the deaths at a game.☹️
		
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horrible horrible news


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Much as it's good to see are we not just having a transition season? I mean Henderson isn't the player he was and replacing him isn't easy. Mane was such a key player and caused problems up top .. which now he is gone Diaz is a class player but does he do the same work rate or lose the ball more often?

Vvd has had more defensive partners than a strickly professional

Trent is out of form but the whole defensive unit doesn't look it's normal self 

I'm sure come end of season they will have clicked again.
		
Click to expand...

You have highlighted some of the concerns and your correct.
But for me the midfield is the big problem.
Injuries aside we havnt got the midfield to control games. Thiago excepted.!
So the back four are exposed and service to strikers just not good enough.
I am sure Klopp has a plan but can’t see it this season.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 2, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			You have highlighted some of the concerns and your correct.
But for me the midfield is the big problem.
Injuries aside we havnt got the midfield to control games. Thiago excepted.!
So the back four are exposed and service to strikers just not good enough.
I am sure Klopp has a plan but can’t see it this season.
		
Click to expand...

I can see rice or Bellingham or even both ending up at Liverpool. That midfield needs an overhaul


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## BrianM (Oct 2, 2022)

😂😂😂


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 2, 2022)

City absolutely bossing this so far. Harland 😳, worth every penny.


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## GreiginFife (Oct 2, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			City absolutely bossing this so far. Harland 😳, worth every penny.
		
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It’s fair to say that even if Haaland was half as much again it would still be worth it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 2, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			It’s fair to say that even if Haaland was half as much again it would still be worth it.
		
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Him and de Bruyne 👍

The others aren't bad 😆


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 2, 2022)

BrianM said:



			😂😂😂

View attachment 44626

Click to expand...

Thing about this is that it’s meaningless if you don’t know who it actually is ‘dressed up’ as a hapless (?) Liverpool defender.


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## IanM (Oct 2, 2022)

Huge queues in Sports Direct tomorrow as remaining Cockley Reds buy shirts of other clubs!


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## BrianM (Oct 2, 2022)

Man City just play tremendous football, hard to see past them in any game.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 2, 2022)

City close to perfect.

United can't pass a ball 5 yards.

Feels very much like last season. At least we can't blame Ronaldo or Maguire for this one.


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## Orikoru (Oct 2, 2022)

I cannot believe United turned up for this with McTominay and Eriksen as their midfield two. How was that ever supposed to work? Did they think they were going to boss possession?? Seems absolutely mental that Casemiro is sat on the bench. They've just got no standing in the game at all, bypassed every single time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Much as it's good to see are we not just having a transition season? I mean Henderson isn't the player he was and replacing him isn't easy. Mane was such a key player and caused problems up top .. which now he is gone Diaz is a class player but does he do the same work rate or lose the ball more often?

Vvd has had more defensive partners than a strickly professional

Trent is out of form but the whole defensive unit doesn't look it's normal self

I'm sure come end of season they will have clicked again.
		
Click to expand...

The whole squad right now is mentally flat , last season took a lot out of the players - physically and mentally, they have played at a very high level for 4/5 seasons and it’s no surprise that at some stage they are going to drop their level for a period. 

They will find their rhythm again soon enough


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 2, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Not a Liverpool comment in site 😀
#whenitsuits
*Wait until tomorrow *😉
		
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Looks like United are waiting for 4.30 to kick off.


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## Bazzatron (Oct 2, 2022)

IanM said:



			Huge queues in Sports Direct tomorrow as remaining Cockley Reds buy shirts of other clubs!

Click to expand...

Go get the Norwich scarves


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## pauljames87 (Oct 2, 2022)

This haaland fella. Dunno if he will make it in this league .. jezzz what a player


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 2, 2022)

Missing squirrel. Reward for information leading to safe return. 😀


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## BiMGuy (Oct 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			This haaland fella. Dunno if he will make it in this league .. jezzz what a player
		
Click to expand...

It’s so amusing how Liverpool fans wrote him off after he missed one chance in the Charity Shield.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 2, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			It’s so amusing how Liverpool fans wrote him off after he missed one chance in the Charity Shield.
		
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I seem to remember some Liverpool fans arguing Darwin was a better signing than Haaland.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 2, 2022)

Well, City won the 1st half, United won the second. Nice to get an honourable draw away at City


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, City won the 1st half, United won the second. Nice to get an honourable draw away at City 

Click to expand...

Yep, that Ronaldo fella is a real must have....


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			It’s so amusing how Liverpool fans wrote him off after he missed one chance in the Charity Shield.
		
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Did Liverpool fans write him off ? Are you sure 

Or did they have a laugh at him missing a sitter 🤷‍♂️



Swango1980 said:



			I seem to remember some Liverpool fans arguing Darwin was a better signing than Haaland.
		
Click to expand...

I’m guessing this must be on some other forms of social media where you can find all sorts of weird and wonderful opinions - just like when someone said Man Utd’s back four was the best in the league


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## PieMan (Oct 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m guessing this must be on some other forms of social media where you can find all sorts of weird and wonderful opinions - just like when someone said Man Utd’s back four was the best in the league
		
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Must've meant League 1.............!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2022)

City will walk the league , got to be the year that they get the CL as well , Haaland just going to keep scoring for fun , hard to see who will challenge them


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## Tashyboy (Oct 2, 2022)

😳😁


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## Tashyboy (Oct 2, 2022)

😳😁


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did Liverpool fans write him off ? Are you sure

Or did they have a laugh at him missing a sitter 🤷‍♂️



I’m guessing this must be on some other forms of social media where you can find all sorts of weird and wonderful opinions - just like when someone said Man Utd’s back four was the best in the league
		
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Or when someone said Aaron Ramsey was English 😀
Muppets all over SM


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2022)

Haven’t seen the game yet so can’t comment 
Suspect it’s not pretty


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## BiMGuy (Oct 2, 2022)

Aston Villa are like one of those Sunday teams who aren’t very good, so just try to kick you and whine at the ref all game.


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## Bazzatron (Oct 2, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Lage out. Dreadful manager, holding the best squad we've ever had back.
The best midfielder we've ever had, playing at centre half.
		
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Thank God for that.


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## BrianM (Oct 2, 2022)

What was Sinisterra thinking, or not


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 2, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Thank God for that.
		
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Is there any doubt that you will go Portuguese again? Who is next up?


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## BrianM (Oct 2, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is there any doubt that you will go Portuguese again? Who is next up?
		
Click to expand...

Big Sam


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 2, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Big Sam 

Click to expand...

He's holding out for the liverpool job 🤣.

Anyway, too early in the season for Sam. It has to be December at the earliest.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 2, 2022)

This is the worst refereeing display I’ve seen in a very long time!


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## pauljames87 (Oct 3, 2022)

Haaland is scoring numbers that you only used to see playing FIFA season's alone on Easy mode when you were 10.


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## HowlingGale (Oct 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 44637


Haaland is scoring numbers that you only used to see playing FIFA season's alone on Easy mode when you were 10.
		
Click to expand...

What makes this more laughable is the players not on the list 🤣.


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## Bazzatron (Oct 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is there any doubt that you will go Portuguese again? Who is next up?
		
Click to expand...

I'd like us to go out and get the best person who is available and would come rather than who's cheap and Portuguese. Already rumoured to be looking at the Lisbon boss, plays a decent style of football apparently but can't say I've watched them much.
We've got the squad just need the right boss now.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 3, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Aston Villa are like one of those Sunday teams who aren’t very good, so just try to kick you and whine at the ref all game.
		
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We really weren't very good - but neither were you 

90 mins of our lives we wont ever get back!


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I seem to remember some Liverpool fans arguing Darwin was a better signing than Haaland.
		
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🤣🤣🤣 I doubt those who were had actually watched both of them.

I dont think anyone thought Haaland would be as prolific as he has been though. 

His desire to get on the end of balls is something else.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣🤣🤣 I doubt those who were had actually watched both of them.

I dont think anyone thought Haaland would be as prolific as he has been though.

His desire to get on the end of balls is something else.
		
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So true, he just does not stop trying to score - and honestly when does he ever miss by a mile? He's so accurate!

Absolute monster - probably the difference maker in the CL for city


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣🤣🤣 I doubt those who were had actually watched both of them.

I dont think anyone thought Haaland would be as prolific as he has been though.

His desire to get on the end of balls is something else.
		
Click to expand...

He’ll be gone after 3 years though


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			So true, he just does not stop trying to score - and honestly when does he ever miss by a mile? He's so accurate!

Absolute monster - probably the difference maker in the CL for city
		
Click to expand...

I can remember him missing from 6yards🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			He’ll be gone after 3 years though

Click to expand...

Doubt it, I cant see who will be able to afford to buy him.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			He’ll be gone after 3 years though

Click to expand...

I can't imagine he will, unless City stop dominating games so much, and presenting him with many chances. I'm sure he'd only want to leave if he genuinely thought he'd score more goals somewhere else (in one of the top leagues). I guess things can change quickly in football, but if City are still at a similar level to now, then I reckon he'd stay to try and smash all goal scoring records.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Doubt it, I cant see who will be able to afford to buy him.
		
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Real Madrid don't seem to worry about that sort of thing. If they need to find the money, they will do.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Doubt it, I cant see who will be able to afford to buy him.
		
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There are release clause in his contract 

It seems that no club can get him without having a release clause added 

He will be at Madrid in 3 years and then go to Italy and then to France.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2022)

In Championship news, Chris Wilder has been sacked at Middlesbrough. I thought he would be a good match for them but it hasn't worked. A shame.


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## Orikoru (Oct 3, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Doubt it, I cant see who will be able to afford to buy him.
		
Click to expand...

There was a story out the other day saying he wants to conquer all the leagues not just the Prem or something. Real Madrid would do it I suspect. Whoever it is it will certainly be a new record transfer.


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## Dando (Oct 3, 2022)




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## BiMGuy (Oct 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			We really weren't very good - but neither were you 

90 mins of our lives we wont ever get back!
		
Click to expand...

It was a terrible game. But it was always going to be after the previous one had 9 goals.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 3, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			It was a terrible game. But it was always going to be after the previous one had 9 goals.
		
Click to expand...

Round 2 later in the year! I'm predicting another card fest from the ref then too


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			There was a story out the other day saying he wants to conquer all the leagues not just the Prem or something. Real Madrid would do it I suspect. Whoever it is it will certainly be a new record transfer.
		
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Well he's already done the PL so he can go in January😉


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			There was a story out the other day saying he wants to conquer all the leagues not just the Prem or something. Real Madrid would do it I suspect. Whoever it is it will certainly be a new record transfer.
		
Click to expand...


That read far more like his Dad would like several more £20m signing on fees! 

Hes already priced out of all bar 3 clubs outside the prem league (in Europe) surely


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## Orikoru (Oct 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			That read far more like his Dad would like several more £20m signing on fees!

Hes already priced out of all bar 3 clubs outside the prem league (in Europe) surely
		
Click to expand...

Real Madrid or PSG wouldn't say no though would they? And he can go to Juve at the end of his career as well.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Real Madrid or PSG wouldn't say no though would they? And he can go to Juve at the end of his career as well.
		
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I've read that his "destination clubs" when starting his career were Barca, Real and United. 

Every club before then is basically a stepping stone for 3/4 years to learn and develop. They chose City to develop under one of the best managers ever on top of obvious CL chances etc

With how things have changed in the last 3 years or so in the footballing finance world, if pep stays at city I think Haaland will too. Spanish teams just don't seem to be able to compete at the moment.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I've read that his "destination clubs" when starting his career were Barca, Real and United.

Every club before then is basically a stepping stone for 3/4 years to learn and develop. They chose City to develop under one of the best managers ever on top of obvious CL chances etc

With how things have changed in the last 3 years or so in the footballing finance world, if pep stays at city I think Haaland will too. Spanish teams just don't seem to be able to compete at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Madrid were going to buy Mbappe in the summer with a package that was off the charts. If they want to buy any player, they can find the money. Barca are in trouble, all relative of course, but somehow Real keep finding the cash.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2022)

Back to the real world, could a loss tonight see another manager out of the door? It really shouldn't but Rodgers in particular must be on wobbly ground. It shouldn't be an issue for Cooper but the owner can be a bit trigger happy so you never know. 

Looking forward to it as a game, not sure their own supporters will be though.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back to the real world, could a loss tonight see another manager out of the door? It really shouldn't but Rodgers in particular must be on wobbly ground. It shouldn't be an issue for Cooper but the owner can be a bit trigger happy so you never know.

Looking forward to it as a game, not sure their own supporters will be though.
		
Click to expand...

I just hope Vardy doesn't play. I've Haaland and Foden in my draft side, so my team has already had a good week. Sadly I put Trossard on the bench. No idea why, as he was up against an out of form side, with one of the worst Premier League right backs of all time  . But, if Vardy stays off the pitch, I get another 20 points to my weekly tally, and 3 players in my team with hat tricks


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I just hope Vardy doesn't play. I've Haaland and Foden in my draft side, so my team has already had a good week. Sadly I put Trossard on the bench. No idea why, as he was up against an out of form side, with one of the worst Premier League right backs of all time  . But, if Vardy stays off the pitch, I get another 20 points to my weekly tally, and 3 players in my team with hat tricks
		
Click to expand...

That's not bad scoring


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## Orikoru (Oct 3, 2022)

Haaland has taken the fun out of fantasy league. The leagues I'm in can be broadly divided into three sections - people who had Haaland since the beginning at the top, people who have wildcarded him in later in the middle (this is where I am), and people who still don't have him because they've given up already. No chance of me catching the top group because everyone has Haaland as captain every week.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Haaland has taken the fun out of fantasy league. The leagues I'm in can be broadly divided into three sections - people who had Haaland since the beginning at the top, people who have wildcarded him in later in the middle (this is where I am), and people who still don't have him because they've given up already. No chance of me catching the top group because everyone has Haaland as captain every week.
		
Click to expand...

Better category names:

Sensible football fans
Bandwagon fans
Idiots.... 

Better time the triple captain well! Or maybe take risks in your midfield to catch up


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Haaland has taken the fun out of fantasy league. The leagues I'm in can be broadly divided into three sections - people who had Haaland since the beginning at the top, people who have wildcarded him in later in the middle (this is where I am), and people who still don't have him because they've given up already. No chance of me catching the top group because everyone has Haaland as captain every week.
		
Click to expand...


Its damaged the draft far more than the normal fantasy where basically one person has a huge huge advantage it seems


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## Orikoru (Oct 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its damaged the draft far more than the normal fantasy where basically one person has a huge huge advantage it seems
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I knew there was a reason I don't bother with drafts. 



Bdill93 said:



			Better category names:

Sensible football fans
Bandwagon fans
Idiots....

Better time the triple captain well! Or maybe take risks in your midfield to catch up
		
Click to expand...

You can't call it a bandwagon, we were literally forced into it. The guy is scoring a weekly hat-trick ffs. You either get him in or you stop playing FPL until next season.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its damaged the draft far more than the normal fantasy where basically one person has a huge huge advantage it seems
		
Click to expand...

Yes, me 

And I was second pick. Salah went first. Given the way Salah finished the second half of last season (poor), and the type of player Haaland was and the team he was going to, I'd have Haaland all day long, with first pick. Obviously he has done better than most would think, but he is a goal machine.

However, I'm only second in the draft league as it stands. Bamford and Vardy have been useless


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, me 

And I was second pick. Salah went first. Given the way Salah finished the second half of last season (poor), and the type of player Haaland was and the team he was going to, I'd have Haaland all day long, with first pick. Obviously he has done better than most would think, but he is a goal machine.

However, I'm only second in the draft league as it stands. Bamford and Vardy have been useless
		
Click to expand...


you want to try having had last pick in the first round 😢😢😢


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## Bazzatron (Oct 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back to the real world, could a loss tonight see another manager out of the door? It really shouldn't but Rodgers in particular must be on wobbly ground. It shouldn't be an issue for Cooper but the owner can be a bit trigger happy so you never know.

Looking forward to it as a game, not sure their own supporters will be though.
		
Click to expand...

Id take Rogers, 100%


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Id take Rogers, 100%
		
Click to expand...


Brendan not a very Portugese sounding name


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## Bazzatron (Oct 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Brendan not a very Portugese sounding name 

Click to expand...

Every single reply to every story about us signing a new player or manager is always something along those lines, you're better than that....but not much


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Every single reply to every story about us signing a new player or manager is always something along those lines, you're better than that....but not much 

Click to expand...


If the cap fits..............


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Id take Rogers, 100%
		
Click to expand...

It might well happen. Simple enough move, may suit all parties.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I knew there was a reason I don't bother with drafts. 


You can't call it a bandwagon, we were literally forced into it. The guy is scoring a weekly hat-trick ffs. You either get him in or you stop playing FPL until next season.
		
Click to expand...

You were silly enough not to include him from the off, that's your old stupid fault!


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## Orikoru (Oct 3, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You were silly enough not to include him from the off, that's your old stupid fault!  

Click to expand...

But it will take him time to adjust to the Premier League, and Pep always rotates the team.

😭😭😭


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back to the real world, could a loss tonight see another manager out of the door? It really shouldn't but Rodgers in particular must be on wobbly ground. It shouldn't be an issue for Cooper but the owner can be a bit trigger happy so you never know.

Looking forward to it as a game, not sure their own supporters will be though.
		
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to it *right now*, because I'm hopeful that we might change formation and see Mangala, O'Brien and Niakhate back in the starting lineup. 

When team gets released at 7pm and we're starting Cook at the back in a back 3, I'll start stressing about it  

As you say, I think the loser tonight sees the manager gone. Something I don't agree with, with regards to Cooper. I genuinely believe he is the man for the job long term - but needs time to figure out a.) how to be a top flight manager (this is his first go) and b.) to get the best combinations of starting XI's - as I've said before I think we're still really in pre-season, or just coming to the end, due to the amount of time the team have had together. 

Hopefully the international break has paid dividends and we see it all start to come together tonight and get back on some sort of run of form (with some winnable games coming up)...but I do fear the worst with Marinakis being a bit of a loose cannon. Watch us fire Cooper and bring in Benitez


----------



## Fromtherough (Oct 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In Championship news, Chris Wilder has been sacked at Middlesbrough. I thought he would be a good match for them but it hasn't worked. A shame.
		
Click to expand...

The right decision. I thought he’d be a good appointment and he had a good start. He has proved to be a bit tactically naive with no plan b. It also seemed like he was almost trying to get sacked. It wouldn’t surprise me if he is announced as Bournemouth manager this week. Not sure who’ll take over for Boro. Rob Edwards is favourite. Not exactly successful in his most recent appointment. I’d take anyone over Dyche mind. No idea how he is second favourite. He hates Middlesbrough and Boro fans hate him.


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## backwoodsman (Oct 3, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			I'm looking forward to it *right now*, because I'm hopeful that we might change formation and see Mangala, O'Brien and Niakhate back in the starting lineup.

When team gets released at 7pm and we're starting Cook at the back in a back 3, I'll start stressing about it 

As you say, I think the loser tonight sees the manager gone. Something I don't agree with, with regards to Cooper. I genuinely believe he is the man for the job long term - but needs time to figure out a.) how to be a top flight manager (this is his first go) and b.) to get the best combinations of starting XI's - as I've said before I think we're still really in pre-season, or just coming to the end, due to the amount of time the team have had together.

Hopefully the international break has paid dividends and we see it all start to come together tonight and get back on some sort of run of form (with some winnable games coming up)...but I do fear the worst with Marinakis being a bit of a loose cannon. Watch us fire Cooper and bring in Benitez 

Click to expand...

So how are your thoughts now the team-sheet has been released?


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 3, 2022)

Great piece by Gary Neville Englands best ever RB on TAA on MNF.
As I’ve said on here many times,absolutely superb going forward but a shocking RB.
Hopefully he watches it and improves his defending,because he should be in the England squad for the WC.
Unfortunately I feel that decision has already been made.


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2022)

2 sides who cant defend, how is it still 0-0 lol


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2022)

works every time


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			2 sides who cant defend, how is it still 0-0 lol
		
Click to expand...


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## HampshireHog (Oct 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			But it will take him time to adjust to the Premier League, and Pep always rotates the team.

😭😭😭
		
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Don’t forget he’ll have his feet up watching the World Cup, so probably even stronger 2nd half of the season.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2022)

HampshireHog said:



			Don’t forget he’ll have his feet up watching the World Cup, so probably even stronger 2nd half of the season.
		
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He'll be a big loss at the World Cup. Always would be intrigued to have a team at the World Cup made up of the best players whose countries didn't qualify. Yes, not a realistic prospect or a serious proposition, but would be intriguing


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2022)

It's going to be a long night for Forest. This could get messy. They are way too open.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Great piece by Gary Neville Englands best ever RB on TAA on MNF.
As I’ve said on here many times,absolutely superb going forward but a shocking RB.
Hopefully he watches it and improves his defending,because he should be in the England squad for the WC.
Unfortunately I feel that decision has already been made.
		
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Yes I saw that.
I have to say he’s right.
But he did say missing the World Cup might do him a favour if he puts the time to good use.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's going to be a long night for Forest. This could get messy. They are way too open.
		
Click to expand...

Cant see them staying up if they been taken apart by an awful Leicester side


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2022)

Oooh this is getting choppy for Forest 😁


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## BrianM (Oct 3, 2022)

Leicester have had to do nothing really to get a 3-0 lead, Forest are absolutely murder.
I'd be worried about Leicester as well going forward, they don't look good at the back.

On another note, why does James Maddison not get a shout for England.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Leicester have had to do nothing really to get a 3-0 lead, Forest are absolutely murder.
I'd be worried about Leicester as well going forward, they don't look good at the back.

On another note, why does James Maddison not get a shout for England.
		
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Because he is an attacking creative player that Southgate doesn’t have a clue about how to play him or fit him into the team 

And imo will challenge Derby for the worst points total - it’s staggering what they did in the transfer window and this is a consequence of it


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## pauljames87 (Oct 3, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Leicester have had to do nothing really to get a 3-0 lead, Forest are absolutely murder.
I'd be worried about Leicester as well going forward, they don't look good at the back.

On another note, why does James Maddison not get a shout for England.
		
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Strong rumours of bad attitude.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 3, 2022)

Just out of interest, how many players in the Forest 1st 11 tonight played for Forest last year?


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just out of interest, how many players in the Forest 1st 11 tonight played for Forest last year?
		
Click to expand...

3 at a guess of tonights starting XI; Cook McKenna and Johnson

Might be 1 in their next game lol


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			3 at a guess of tonights starting XI; Cook McKenna and Johnson

Might be 1 in their next game lol
		
Click to expand...

yep, just those 3.

I love, and still believe in Steve Cooper, but he will be gone tonight. And I expect Rafa to be announced in the next day or two, as the club approached him 2 weeks ago. 

We’ve looked Better with Mangala and Aurier on the pitch (which I’d expect)….but nowhere near good enough. 

300 mile round trip to watch them play Villa next Monday should be fun 🥴😂


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## fundy (Oct 3, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			yep, just those 3.

I love, and still believe in Steve Cooper, but he will be gone tonight. And I expect Rafa to be announced in the next day or two, as the club approached him 2 weeks ago.

We’ve looked Better with Mangala and Aurier on the pitch (which I’d expect)….but nowhere near good enough.

300 mile round trip to watch them play Villa next Monday should be fun 🥴😂
		
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Be a real shame if Cooper goes this early in the season after the summer you had but tonight as bad as it could be really and doesnt look like he knows what his best side is, not surprising but sadly not likely to get the time needed either

Villa are awful lately, could be far worse places to be going!


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## Slime (Oct 3, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Missing squirrel. Reward for information leading to safe return. 😀
		
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Thankfully, I was away for the weekend and missed all the football, although I did hear that United won the 2nd half!


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## Swingalot (Oct 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Strong rumours of bad attitude.
		
Click to expand...

often labelled at players from outside the big clubs who don’t get picked.

players with apparent good attitudes then: Cantona, Keane, Sheringham, Terry, Di Caneo, Carragher, Gazza etc etc. I could give you a list of reasons against all of them where you could question there attitude off the pitch, but judge players on what they do on it.

 He should be in the squad and he should be close to the team, but as already mentioned Southgate has not got a clue how to manage any player who does not defend first. Watch Grealish and Foden play a major role for the best team in the world as they ripped United a new one at the weekend, but then watch Southgate continue to waste that talent he has at his disposal. Neither of those 2 feature in his sides apart from brief cameos off the bench……truly shocking. He should be building a side around them, but prefers attacking players who track back better rather than the best attacking players!


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## pauljames87 (Oct 3, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			often labelled at players from outside the big clubs who don’t get picked.

players with apparent good attitudes then: Cantona, Keane, Sheringham, Terry, Di Caneo, Carragher, Gazza etc etc. I could give you a list of reasons against all of them where you could question there attitude off the pitch, but judge players on what they do on it.

He should be in the squad and he should be close to the team, but as already mentioned Southgate has not got a clue how to manage any player who does not defend first. Watch Grealish and Foden play a major role for the best team in the world as they ripped United a new one at the weekend, but then watch Southgate continue to waste that talent he has at his disposal. Neither of those 2 feature in his sides apart from brief cameos off the bench……truly shocking. He should be building a side around them, but prefers attacking players who track back better rather than the best attacking players!
		
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To be fair di canio was a fascist lol who pushes refs over


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 3, 2022)

There we have it. Rarely nonsense reported by John Percy :-(


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577048920135503894


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## rudebhoy (Oct 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Strong rumours of bad attitude.
		
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Sounds like the archetypal professional footballer.

Since when did a bad attitude stop someone getting in the international squad?


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## Bazzatron (Oct 4, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			There we have it. Rarely nonsense reported by John Percy :-(


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577048920135503894

Click to expand...

Percy is always bang on the money, seems like he's got a mole at every club.


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 4, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Percy is always bang on the money, seems like he's got a mole at every club.
		
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Spoke to him 2 weeks ago apparently. Such disrespect for the best (by a long way) manager we’ve had at the club since Frank Clark in the early 90’s. That coupled with the fact the owners son recruited a number of players in the summer that cooper and his staff were unaware of. No wonder we’re struggling.  

I was hoping the days of toxic ownership were behind us, but I was wrong, sadly.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Be a real shame if Cooper goes this early in the season after the summer you had but tonight as bad as it could be really and doesnt look like he knows what his best side is, not surprising but sadly not likely to get the time needed either

*Villa are awful lately, could be far worse places to be going*!
		
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We are struggling to score goals but not conceding many... Its got 1-1 written all over it


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			We are struggling to score goals but not conceding many... Its got 1-1 written all over it
		
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think jon would take that result in a heartbeat!


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			think jon would take that result in a heartbeat!
		
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Absolutely! 

If I'm trying to stay positive - Newcastle didn't win til December last season, and look at them now. We've already got 4 points and are two wins away from Mid table....Granted, I'm not sure where those wins are coming from at the minute


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## Bdill93 (Oct 4, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Absolutely!

If I'm trying to stay positive - Newcastle didn't win til December last season, and look at them now. We've already got 4 points and are two wins away from Mid table....Granted, I'm not sure where those wins are coming from at the minute 

Click to expand...

It takes a while to bed in a lot of new signings - Villa made about 7/8 when we got promoted! Fulham famously did something similar too (but got relegated). 

The fortunate thing is - with the winter world cup, the second half of this season anything could happen! Your manager will get extra time with any players not play for their countries - you may find you do alright!


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			It takes a while to bed in a lot of new signings - Villa made about 7/8 when we got promoted! Fulham famously did something similar too (but got relegated).

The fortunate thing is - with the winter world cup, the second half of this season anything could happen! *Your manager will get extra time with any players not play for their countries* - you may find you do alright!
		
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That's if he's still here - which I fear he won't be! He should be given the whole season, regardless of what happens, but our trigger happy owner won't see the long game - as he's used to firing managers at Olympiacos when they don't win every week (already on their 3rd manager of the season!), because the greek league is Mickey Mouse. 

Cooper's had less than 2 months with this squad and is expected to have them firing on all cylinders and has people getting involved that shouldn't be involved with the day-to-day football operations. He needs to be given the time, but I'm afraid he won't get it.


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			That's if he's still here - which I fear he won't be! He should be given the whole season, regardless of what happens, but our trigger happy owner won't see the long game - as he's used to firing managers at Olympiacos when they don't win every week (already on their 3rd manager of the season!), because the greek league is Mickey Mouse.

Cooper's had less than 2 months with this squad and is expected to have them firing on all cylinders and has people getting involved that shouldn't be involved with the day-to-day football operations. He needs to be given the time, but I'm afraid he won't get it.
		
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Should at least give him the January window so you can sign another 13 more players if it's not working out IMO.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Should at least give him the January window so you can sign another 13 more players if it's not working out IMO.
		
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Maybe you should let them have Djed Spence back if hes 3rd choice behind Emerson and Doherty!!!!


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Maybe you should let them have Djed Spence back if hes 3rd choice behind Emerson and Doherty!!!!
		
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If he's third choice behind those two he must be absolutely useless anyway.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			If he's third choice behind those two he must be absolutely useless anyway.
		
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Seems sensible to have paid £20m for him then lol


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Should at least give him the January window so you can sign another 13 more players if it's not working out IMO.
		
Click to expand...


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Seems sensible to have paid £20m for him then lol
		
Click to expand...

Honestly not sure what's gone on with him. It seems he was bought by the club without Conte particularly wanting him. Conte has made comments that are basically saying he hasn't done much in training and is one for the future and not ready to play for now. I'd expect Doherty to get the nod in the next few Prem games, if not Perisic on the right with Sessegnon on the left.


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 4, 2022)

Sweet christ - now being reported that the whole Recruitment Team is under fire....despite the fact the Owner's son meddled with the recruitment in the summer...so the actual people who know what they're doing are under scrutiny, but the kid who's playing with his dad's toy is not. Couldn't make it up. 

We had 12 months of having stability and letting people get on with their jobs...now we're back to the owners sticking their nose in and generally taking the club backwards. I was so hopeful we were out of this cycle, but apparently not.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2022)

Cant defend but takes a decent free kick


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## Beezerk (Oct 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Cant defend but takes a decent free kick 

Click to expand...

Half a Trippier then 😂


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## Jensen (Oct 4, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			yep, just those 3.

I love, and still believe in Steve Cooper, but he will be gone tonight. And I expect Rafa to be announced in the next day or two, as the club approached him 2 weeks ago.

We’ve looked Better with Mangala and *Aurier on the pitch (which* I’d expect)….but nowhere near good enough.

300 mile round trip to watch them play Villa next Monday should be fun 🥴😂
		
Click to expand...

As a Spurs fan, believe me you’ll change your mind after a few games.
Aurier is a liability and I’m glad we got rid of him.
Only Emerson Royal and Davidson Sanchez to go. Plus bring in a creative midfielder and only then we might be better to watch 😁


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## 4LEX (Oct 4, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Sweet christ - now being reported that the whole Recruitment Team is under fire....despite the fact the Owner's son meddled with the recruitment in the summer...so the actual people who know what they're doing are under scrutiny, but the kid who's playing with his dad's toy is not. Couldn't make it up.

We had 12 months of having stability and letting people get on with their jobs...now we're back to the owners sticking their nose in and generally taking the club backwards. I was so hopeful we were out of this cycle, but apparently not.
		
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Feel for you mate. I wasn't having ago at Forest in the summer I just thought the recruitment was bizarre, typified by the Lingard signing on crazy wages.

Benitez would be a terrible mistake IMO.


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## fundy (Oct 4, 2022)

Jensen said:



			As a Spurs fan, believe me you’ll change your mind after a few games.
Aurier is a liability and I’m glad we got rid of him.
Only Emerson Royal and Davidson Sanchez to go. Plus bring in a creative midfielder and only then we might be better to watch 😁
		
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another joyous night of Conte ball tonight I see


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## Rlburnside (Oct 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			another joyous night of Conte ball tonight I see 

Click to expand...

It was actually a much better performance from Spurs tonight and we created enough chances to win the game, nothing like the Arsenal game where we defended far to deep, I wish we would play like we did tonight more often.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2022)

Well that was a surprise, a formation of 4-2-4 and an ultra defensive TAA. I want the old TAA back1🤣🤣

What a freekick though👌

Rangers never really threatened, infact i was disappointed in their performance. 

I've always had a soft spot for the teddy's since the days of Souness. My auld man always told me Souness was the greatest midfielder we had and growing up Souey was their manager.

I expected a rowdy away end, after the flares and "ultras" banner it was pretty tame. Nowhere near as loud as Brighton at the weekend.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2022)

That was the view of the away end from my seat


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## Swango1980 (Oct 5, 2022)

Rangers were awful, and the atmosphere was dull. I guess it should be expected from a Scottish club, who are poor. Started watching the Liverpool game, but ended up watching the Spurs game mainly. Despite 0-0, was more entertaining, competitive and much better atmosphere.


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## Neilds (Oct 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



View attachment 44673


That was the view of the away end from my seat
		
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Good to see the promised crackdown on flares and smoke is being enforced


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## Swango1980 (Oct 5, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



View attachment 44673


That was the view of the away end from my seat
		
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Is this Anfield? If so, perhaps a stadium ban should be enforced


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## Tashyboy (Oct 5, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Good to see the promised crackdown on flares and smoke is being enforced 

Click to expand...

I went to the community shield game, flares were let off in the Liverpool end, after they had scored I think. The way Leicesters ground is, the smoke just got to the top of the stadium and spread around the ground. The smell was rancid. Lord knows how folk with asthma etc go on.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Is this Anfield? If so, perhaps a stadium ban should be enforced 

Click to expand...

Yeah i agree....


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 5, 2022)

Jensen said:



			As a Spurs fan, believe me you’ll change your mind after a few games.
Aurier is a liability and I’m glad we got rid of him.
Only Emerson Royal and Davidson Sanchez to go. Plus bring in a creative midfielder and only then we might be better to watch 😁
		
Click to expand...

haha! I've already been warned by my spurs supporting mates and I seem to remember him being a bit bull-in-a-china-shop esque when he was at Spurs...we shall see. Mangala is an absolute game changer though. What is it about Belgian midfielders that make them all so bloody good??



4LEX said:



			Feel for you mate. I wasn't having ago at Forest in the summer I just thought the recruitment was bizarre, typified by the Lingard signing on crazy wages.

Benitez would be a terrible mistake IMO.
		
Click to expand...

The volume of recruitment, we didn't have a choice about, so I don't have a problem with that, but finding out that Marinakis Jr was bringing in players without Cooper or Murphy having any knowledge is absolutely bonkers. Turns out Lingard was one (which makes LOADS of sense in hindsight) and Dennis was another, as was Freuler (although I think he can be a really good player for us)....How is the bloke expected to do his job when he's got players coming in that he's not even scouted.


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## Orikoru (Oct 5, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			haha! I've already been warned by my spurs supporting mates and I seem to remember him being a bit bull-in-a-china-shop esque when he was at Spurs...we shall see. Mangala is an absolute game changer though. What is it about Belgian midfielders that make them all so bloody good??



The volume of recruitment, we didn't have a choice about, so I don't have a problem with that, but finding out that Marinakis Jr was bringing in players without Cooper or Murphy having any knowledge is absolutely bonkers. Turns out Lingard was one (which makes LOADS of sense in hindsight) and Dennis was another, as was Freuler (although I think he can be a really good player for us)....How is the bloke expected to do his job when he's got players coming in that he's not even scouted.
		
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As an outsider though I'd have said Lingard and Dennis were your two best signings to be fair. Because we've actually seen them produce the goods in the Premier League. Not as cost effective though of course.


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## theoneandonly (Oct 5, 2022)

I sort of watched 3 games, the Marseille one was in an empty ground but an amusing goal from Sanchez. Then it was spurs on one screen and LFC on the other , tbf id probably drunk to much by then to have much insight in either 🤣🤣


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## fundy (Oct 5, 2022)

7 mins tonight for the cheat code lol


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## fundy (Oct 5, 2022)

32 mins for his 2nd haha

anyone want to guess the hat trick minute


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## ger147 (Oct 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			32 mins for his 2nd haha

anyone want to guess the hat trick minute
		
Click to expand...

So relieved for the lad, it must have been a nightmare enduring that near 25min goal drought...


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## HowlingGale (Oct 5, 2022)

🤣 Copenhagen have stumbled across an effective strategy to stop Haaland scoring. Just score OGs


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2022)

Congratulations to Everton
Days : 10000
Years : 27
Managers : 10                                            
Money Spent : 1 Billion 
Trophies : Zero 🏆


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## Tashyboy (Oct 5, 2022)

Been reading a few posts on FB about City not winning the champs league. Even Robbie Savage mentioned “this could be the year City win the Holy Grail”. That being the champions league. As a City fan I am seeing football I never ever thought I would see. Especially in a City shirt. Be nice to win it but it won’t change the happiness I am seeing tonight And last weekend.


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## theoneandonly (Oct 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Congratulations to Everton
Days : 10000
Years : 27
Managers : 10                                            
Money Spent : 1 Billion 
Trophies : Zero 🏆
		
Click to expand...

 you aren’t being critical though - you offer no critique at all , you don’t mention what the issues are , you just look at the results and then call them💩

It’s almost as if you are waiting for Everton to not win so that you can post about it

At the end of the day they have  won some of the biggest tournaments in football - that can never be taken away from them they may not win another but that doesn’t make them 💩


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 5, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Been reading a few posts on FB about City not winning the champs league. Even Robbie Savage mentioned “this could be the year City win the Holy Grail”. That being the champions league. As a City fan I am seeing football I never ever thought I would see. Especially in a City shirt. Be nice to win it but it won’t change the happiness I am seeing tonight And last weekend.
		
Click to expand...

Haarland is getting all the plaudits ( rightly so).
But it’s the service to him that facilitates it.
Most PL teams are scared stiff of you.
Top CL teams are not that’s the difference for me.
You might win the CL but you will need to defend better than you have in the past .
As scoring isn’t a problem especially now that big fella is upfront.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Congratulations to Everton
Days : 10000
Years : 27
Managers : 10                                           
Money Spent : 1 Billion
Trophies : Zero 🏆
		
Click to expand...

You forgot:

Living rent free in the heads of 1,000's of Liverpool fans 😉


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You forgot:

Living rent free in the heads of 1,000's of Liverpool fans 😉
		
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It’s a day of celebration 😂

It can be a new DVD to be released


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a day of celebration 😂

It can be a new DVD to be released
		
Click to expand...

Just in time for Christmas 🎄 😆


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just in time for Christmas 🎄 😆
		
Click to expand...

Sure I had a bet on that.
Paul Rideout wasn’t it.
Can’t think who they beat.


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## Piece (Oct 5, 2022)

Watford v Swansea...."The referee has indicated a minimum of 17 minutes. 17 minutes."

😄😄😄


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sure I had a bet on that.
Paul Rideout wasn’t it.
Can’t think who they beat.

Click to expand...

Yes it was. Graham Stuart doing his usual of missing a clear chance, against the bar, and Rideout finished the rebound. Long time ago............


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## Swango1980 (Oct 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Congratulations to Everton
Days : 10000
Years : 27
Managers : 10                                            
Money Spent : 1 Billion 
Trophies : Zero 🏆
		
Click to expand...

I guess they could be the Emma Radacanu of football


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I guess they could be the Emma Radacanu of football 

Click to expand...

Okay, I'll bite.

9 league titles
5 FA Cups
1 European Cup Winners Cup

Emma can only dream of that sort of career . She would have to live and compete until she was 144 though


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## hairball_89 (Oct 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Okay, I'll bite.

9 league titles
5 FA Cups
1 European Cup Winners Cup

Emma can only dream of that sort of career . She would have to live and compete until she was 144 though 

Click to expand...

Strictly she would only need to play until she was 117. And then hang around doing absolutely nothing of interest for the next 27 years...


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Strictly she would only need to play until she was 117. And then hang around doing absolutely nothing of interest for the next 27 years...
		
Click to expand...

Ouch, brutal. I'd suggest she would make the odd semi or quarter final in her 120's. Get her supporters going every now and again


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2022)

Is the squirrel on furlough 🤷‍♂️😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578050286861557762
not a bad little earner


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## fundy (Oct 6, 2022)

Union Berlin fans setting off fireworks into the home crowd in Sweden tonight


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## pauljames87 (Oct 6, 2022)

Good game tonight, end to end.

First half neither team took their chances 

The super star subs win it with paquata brilliantly playing scamacca through for a lovely finish 

Then areola with a point blank save to keep the 3 points and a vital clean sheet


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## Slime (Oct 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is the squirrel on furlough 🤷‍♂️😂
		
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No, Phil, I missed the game as I was playing golf at Blackmoor ........................... it just had to be done!
Hopefully you'll see them on Sunday.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			No, Phil, I missed the game as I was playing golf at Blackmoor ........................... it just had to be done!
Hopefully you'll see them on Sunday. 

Click to expand...

The like was for playing at Blackmoor.

The longer the squirrel stays on furlough the better...


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## fundy (Oct 7, 2022)

Wow Cooper signed a new contract with Forest until 2025 

Were gonna have one happy fan


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Wow Cooper signed a new contract with Forest until 2025 

Were gonna have one happy fan 

Click to expand...

At least it means he gets a better payout now .

Interesting that the owner is so trigger happy at his club in Greece yet seemingly mellow here, so far...........


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## Neilds (Oct 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Wow Cooper signed a new contract with Forest until 2025 

Were gonna have one happy fan 

Click to expand...

Is that better or worse than a vote of confidence?


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Wow Cooper signed a new contract with Forest until 2025 

Were gonna have one happy fan 

Click to expand...

Who, me? Was walking back from Co-Op on my lunch break, read the news and started sobbing uncontrollably haha! Absolutely the right decision.



Lord Tyrion said:



			At least it means he gets a better payout now .

Interesting that the owner is so trigger happy at his club in Greece yet seemingly mellow here, so far...........
		
Click to expand...

I *think* (hope!) that Marinakis;

a.) realises that the Premier League is a completely different kettle of fish to the Greek league, that they can just win without too much issue.

and

b.) has realised the task at hand for Cooper and that he needs to be given time to get it right.. 23 new players, the most ruthless league in the world...it's not going to magically happen after these players have played 9 hours of football together and basically had no pre-season together. 

Either that or he's just happy to give him a better pay off when he inevitably rips up his contract and sacks him, to say thanks for everything. 


Hopefully it's not the latter and he is given the time needed and if necessary goes down with him knowing he's our best chance of coming straight back up with the core squad they're building. 

Buzzing for Monday night, the City Ground under the lights is going to be bouncing.


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## Captainron (Oct 9, 2022)

It’s like yesterday never happened on here?


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 9, 2022)

Captainron said:



			It’s like yesterday never happened on here?
		
Click to expand...

Doubt you will be saying the same tomorrow at this time!Usual  culprits should be in full flow with the matches scheduled to be played.


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## Captainron (Oct 9, 2022)

Do we can deduce that the majority of muppets here support teams that didn’t play yesterday?


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Do we can deduce that the majority of muppets here support teams that didn’t play yesterday?


Click to expand...

The big teams all won. Rival fans have nothing to take the piss about, and fans of those big clubs can't be bothered singing their praises, and trying to convince everyone else it is proof they have the best right back in the world


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## Tashyboy (Oct 9, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Do we can deduce that the majority of muppets here support teams that didn’t play yesterday?


Click to expand...

Sometimes for your sanity you have to get off the merry go round and let someone else have a go. Ave a feeling this afternoons game between Liverpool and Arsenal will be a big merry go round. Maybe not so merry though 😉


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## nickjdavis (Oct 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The big teams all won. Rival fans have nothing to take the piss about, and fans of those big clubs can't be bothered singing their praises, and trying to convince everyone else it is *proof they have the best right back in the world*

Click to expand...

errr....

Newcastle do.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 9, 2022)

I 100% don't understand football anymore lol

2-1 up. What a finish by scamacca

Onside just but claims of hand ball

By currently laws im sure as long as it hits another part of body first (which it did) it's not handball 

I don't agree with that tho , under old laws that would be handball it brushed his arm after his control


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## pauljames87 (Oct 9, 2022)

3-1 win after 1-0 down within 5 mins

Will take that very much 

3 wins on the bounce with a Thursday midweek game coming up. Let's keep going 

Scamacca make it 4 in 4? He's no haaland but he's a class above what we have had


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Get in you beauty


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## BrianM (Oct 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Get in you beauty 

Click to expand...

Where was the right back


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Where was the right back 

Click to expand...

I typed exactly that, waited for the offside decision, and then refrained from posting. It is just too easy of a dig, he is awful (although it was a poor team defensive performance on that play, to give him some credit)


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## pauljames87 (Oct 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I typed exactly that, waited for the offside decision, and then refrained from posting. It is just too easy of a dig, he is awful (although it was a poor team defensive performance on that play, to give him some credit)
		
Click to expand...

Surely it comes now down to bad management. TAA is a good player and klopp said he asks him to play far up the pitch 

So with the current situation of the midfielders tired and off the pass is asking him to play the exact same way Trent's fault or klopps?


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## BrianM (Oct 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I typed exactly that, waited for the offside decision, and then refrained from posting. It is just too easy of a dig, he is awful (although it was a poor team defensive performance on that play, to give him some credit)
		
Click to expand...

Superb player going forward but defensively he’s not good enough in my opinion.


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Ouch  that didnt look good at all


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

Don’t understand how that’s not a penalty.
It’s clear handball by Gabriel.


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

it had been coming


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## pauljames87 (Oct 9, 2022)

Oh wow that striker that's better than haalands scored


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh wow that striker that's better than haalands scored
		
Click to expand...

Just compare the service to them!
I would fancy myself to score a few with the service in city’s midfield.


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Seriously stop kicking the ball out in situations like that


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

[/QUOTE]Just compare the service to them!
I would fancy myself to score a few with the service in city’s midfield.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely right. If Darwin played for City, I reckon he'd have at least 3 or 4 goals by now.


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## paddyc (Oct 9, 2022)

Gabriel needs a kick up the back side . Gets caught again for the goal, could have easily  handed Liverpool a penalty.last week he gave away a pen. Get white alongside Saliba, Tomi back to the right and Tieney on the left


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just compare the service to them!
I would fancy myself to score a few with the service in city’s midfield.

Click to expand...

Absolutely right. If Darwin played for City, I reckon he'd have at least 3 or 4 goals by now.[/QUOTE]



not as many as me then


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## paddyc (Oct 9, 2022)

Giving Liverpool  far too much space in the middle of the park.we need half time to regroup


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Gabriel needs a kick up the back side . Gets caught again for the goal, could have easily  handed Liverpool a penalty.last week he gave away a pen. Get white alongside Saliba, Tomi back to the right and Tieney on the left
		
Click to expand...

Hes not been great but getting no help from the 2 in front of him here first half. Midfield been truly awful


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Booooooooom


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## paddyc (Oct 9, 2022)

Oh yes !!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

I have to say that’s shocking from TAA .
What’s he doing there.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

That is one of the worst pieces of defending I've ever seen by TAA. Sure, defenders make mistakes. But he meant that.


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Not sure how weve gone in front but ill take it. Still think we need to score 1 or 2 more to win mind. Could be a cracking 2nd half


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## pokerjoke (Oct 9, 2022)

Trent where are you going lol
Unbelievable bad defender


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I have to say that’s shocking from TAA .
What’s he doing there.
		
Click to expand...

MIA.


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## Beezerk (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I have to say that’s shocking from TAA .
What’s he doing there.
		
Click to expand...

He's a fanny, can't tackle and has the positional sense of a blind dog. Lad can cross a ball but that's it.


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

how many times sigh

chances to be 2 ahead then bang back 2-2


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## pokerjoke (Oct 9, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			He's a fanny, can't tackle and has the positional sense of a blind dog. Lad can cross a ball but that's it.
		
Click to expand...

Stu C will be on later to tell you all the other things he does,but you have to be at the game,lol


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Elbows to the face ok now ref?


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Elbows to the face ok now ref?
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Swinging an elbow into a players face is perfectly fine these days


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

25/1 saka to score twice, dont mind if i do 

Gonna be a long quarter of an hour now.....................


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Like to see Tierney on for Tomiyasu now that Salah has gone off here, probably Nketiahs fresh legs up top too


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## pendodave (Oct 9, 2022)

Liverpool getting the mid table treatment against a top 6 side...
Welcome to our world


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## pauljames87 (Oct 9, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Stu C will be on later to tell you all the other things he does,but you have to be at the game,lol
		
Click to expand...

Really don't think you have to be at the game to realise he is pony atm


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## paddyc (Oct 9, 2022)

Get in,brilliant win,  well deserved COYG!!


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Think I need a drink or two to celebrate


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## ger147 (Oct 9, 2022)

Interesting little factoid. Brendan Rodgers was sacked as Liverpool manager after Liverpool found themselves in 10th place after 8 games, which is exactly the same position as Liverpool find themselves in after the final whistle at the Emirates...


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## Dando (Oct 9, 2022)

Have arsenal won the league? 🤣🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

I know TAA get a lot of flak. What on earth has happened to Salah since AFCON?


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## nickjdavis (Oct 9, 2022)

Dando said:



			Have arsenal won the league? 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Youd think so they way Arteta throws himself about...he is most annoying in that regards.

for balance though...Klopp is equally as "lively".


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## Beezerk (Oct 9, 2022)

Cracking game for the telly clappers to watch


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## paddyc (Oct 9, 2022)

Dando said:



			Have arsenal won the league? 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Not yet mate but I think we can be considered  contenders now😁


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

Think Gunners were the better team on the day .
But VAR ,can someone explain to me how that’s not a penalty for handball by Gabriel.?


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Dando said:



			Have arsenal won the league? 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...


Yeah really shouldnt celebrate beating Liverpool and going top of the league should we lol

Cheers


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think Gunners were the better team on the day .
But VAR ,can someone explain to me how that’s not a penalty for handball by Gabriel.?
		
Click to expand...


get them to explain why Tsimikas wasnt having a bath after an hour at the same time plse


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## pokerjoke (Oct 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I know TAA get a lot of flak. What on earth has happened to Salah since AFCON?
		
Click to expand...

He’s the Phil Mickelson of football 
Got his deal and now plays crap


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## nickjdavis (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think Gunners were the better team on the day .
But VAR ,can someone explain to me how that’s not a penalty for handball by Gabriel.?
		
Click to expand...

I believe that it is because the ball bounced off his chest first and he couldn't then get his hand out of the way....something like that....(a bit like if it riccochets off his knee up into his arm)...but I was asking myself the same question at the time.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 9, 2022)

Good win for Arsenal, but not being funny.It was Liverpool.I have never seen them look so disjointed. I have said on a few occasions they have been bang average this year. They like Utd no longer have the fear factor. I think it was the second Arsenal goal, Liverpool were Jogging back and Arsenal were busting a gut to get forward to score. Going to be a tough season for Liverpool.


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## Beezerk (Oct 9, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Good win for Arsenal, but not being funny.It was Liverpool.I have never seen them look so disjointed. I have said on a few occasions they have been bang average this year. They like Utd no longer have the fear factor. I think it was the second Arsenal goal, Liverpool were Jogging back and Arsenal were busting a gut to get forward to score. Going to be a tough season for Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

Thy are still tired from last seasons exploits


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			I believe that it is because the ball bounced off his chest first and he couldn't then get his hand out of the way....something like that....(a bit like if it riccochets off his knee up into his arm)...but I was asking myself the same question at the time.
		
Click to expand...

Only it didn’t hit his chest.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			get them to explain why Tsimikas wasnt having a bath after an hour at the same time plse
		
Click to expand...

Didn’t kook good ,but I will have a go.
I think the ball hit the player on the ground changing it’s direction.
He is trying to change course and just like heading a ball we all use our arms for balance.

Jesus hit his elbow with his chin so technically a foul to the reds


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Is this Alex Iwobis twin brother? 

Take a bow sir


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## pokerjoke (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Only it didn’t hit his chest.
		
Click to expand...

John Barnes had it spot on
He was way to close,had no chance of moving his hand quick enough.
Poor performance,clutching at straws I’m afraid.


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Didn’t kook good ,but I will have a go.
I think the ball hit the player on the ground changing it’s direction.
He is trying to change course and just like heading a ball we all use our arms for balance.

Jesus hit his elbow with his chin so technically a foul to the reds

Click to expand...


Next youll be agreeing with VVD that it wasnt a penalty lol


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2022)

At least we kept a clean sheet longer than Liverpool!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			John Barnes had it spot on
He was way to close,had no chance of moving his hand quick enough.
Poor performance,clutching at straws I’m afraid.
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was your silhouette. His hand should not be there in the first place.
If he dosnt handle it the ball is in the six yard box.
There was one about two mins later outside the box and that was given.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Next youll be agreeing with VVD that it wasnt a penalty lol
		
Click to expand...

No that’s a lazy tackle by Thiago.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 44725

At least we kept a clean sheet longer than Liverpool!
		
Click to expand...

Is this the opposite of a squirrel


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is this the opposite of a squirrel
		
Click to expand...

Yup, and this is a squirrel!


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought it was your silhouette. His hand should not be there in the first place.
If he dosnt handle it the ball is in the six yard box.
There was one about two mins later outside the box and that was given.
		
Click to expand...

No point in overthinking it. A few weeks ago, Martinez blocked a shot in Europe, bounced off his leg, hit his hand. Penalty and yellow card.

Basically, handball is just random. There really is no criteria. They just try and tell us there is from time to time to shut us up.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Is this Alex Iwobis twin brother? 

Take a bow sir
		
Click to expand...

I was hugely critical, and frankly bemused, by Iwobi in his Everton career. This year though Lampard has worked out how to get the best from him and he contributes every game. He may not be the type of player we wanted when we bought him but he is a good part of the team. Hats off to him and Lampard. 

Weird season, both Iwobi and Almiron look like proper players 😳


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I was hugely critical, and frankly bemused, by Iwobi in his Everton career. This year though Lampard has worked out how to get the best from him and he contributes every game. He may not be the type of player we wanted when we bought him but he is a good part of the team. Hats off to him and Lampard.

Weird season, both Iwobi and Almiron look like proper players 😳
		
Click to expand...

not seen enough to comment really but he definitely seems to have a bit more time and be less frantic in possession than he has been in previous seasons, Ill still take the 30m though


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2022)

What a bloody stupid rule.
PUT YOUR FLAG UP STRAIGHTAWAY !!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			not seen enough to comment really but he definitely seems to have a bit more time and be less frantic in possession than he has been in previous seasons, Ill still take the 30m though 

Click to expand...

Oh, you definitely still got the best of the deal 😄. At least he now has a role in the team though, a purpose.


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2022)




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## Slime (Oct 9, 2022)

*CR700*

*

*


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 44727

Click to expand...

It was a top class finish .
A great through ball .
But what is Iwobi doing there.


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was a top class finish .
A great through ball .
*But what is Iwobi doing there.*

Click to expand...

I ........................... just don't care.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			John Barnes had it spot on
He was way to close,had no chance of moving his hand quick enough.
Poor performance,clutching at straws I’m afraid.
		
Click to expand...

No clutching at all 
I have already said Gunners we’re the better team.
I just don’t understand the handball rule anymore.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Only it didn’t hit his chest.
		
Click to expand...

Looked like it did to me.....I'll have to have a second viewing later on MOTD...to be fair I wasn't paying close attention at the time!!!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Looked like it did to me.....I'll have to have a second viewing later on MOTD...to be fair I wasn't paying close attention at the time!!!
		
Click to expand...

Is VAR delibaretly not showing any reply’s .
They only showed it once.
I thought it went straight to his hand.


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2022)

Interestingly, Liverpool have won just one more game than Wolves this season.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is VAR delibaretly not showing any reply’s .
They only showed it once.
I thought it went straight to his hand.
		
Click to expand...

It did go straight to his hand
They showed a replay
Never a penalty,I’m sure all on motd will agree.
Yes Arsenal easily the better team.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			It did go straight to his hand
They showed a replay
Never a penalty,I’m sure all on motd will agree.
Yes Arsenal easily the better team.
		
Click to expand...

That’s a pen then .
He’s making himself bigger by having his arm out at 90* 
I think your wrong about MOTD if it’s Shearer and Wrighty they will agree with me.


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2022)

...................... and on some days that would have been a red card.


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## fundy (Oct 9, 2022)

Cracking commentary "Looks like he's settling in to this Everton team, doesn't score many goals....."


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is VAR delibaretly not showing any reply’s .
They only showed it once.
I thought it went straight to his hand.
		
Click to expand...

VAR are not in charge of showing replays in Sky TV. Sky TV choose to show replays, and what they wanna show


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

There you go club champ, Rashford's was a handball......

The farce of the rules of football


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			VAR are not in charge of showing replays in Sky TV. Sky TV choose to show replays, and what they wanna show
		
Click to expand...

Yes badly put by me.
That’s what I meant.
With all the criticisms of VAR recently are they trying to stop it by not showing contentious ones.?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			There you go club champ, Rashford's was a handball......

The farce of the rules of football
		
Click to expand...

I can’t blame the ref but VAR have time and several angles and should not get it wrong.
Havnt seen the Rashford one!


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			There you go club champ, Rashford's was a handball......

The farce of the rules of football
		
Click to expand...

And just to add to that farce, had Rashford squared to Bruno, and Bruno scored, then it would have been given as a goal.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I can’t blame the ref but VAR have time and several angles and should not get it wrong.
Havnt seen the Rashford one!
		
Click to expand...

He was running through, and Everton player smashed it into his chest. It grazed an arm, also in by his chest, and he went on and scored. Ref gave it, VAR ruled it out


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 9, 2022)

Blatant penalty for Barca.


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2022)

Three hard earned and fully deserved points.
A great reaction after last week's hammering.


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## 4LEX (Oct 9, 2022)

Impressed with Man Utd tonight. Worst possible start but they didn't panic, just kept the ball, controlled the game and played Everton off the park. More impressive given how they've been really poor lately and big questions would've been asked if they'd lost.


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## theoneandonly (Oct 9, 2022)

The rules for handball are interpreted differently depending on if it happens in the immediate build up to a goal or if it hits a defender during an  attack.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 9, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			The rules for handball are interpreted differently depending on if it happens in the immediate build up to a goal or if it hits a defender during an  attack.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly, farcical. If you just saw a still of the ball hitting the hand, but no other indication as to where on the pitch, or whether it was attacking or defending team, or whether a goal was scored or not, you could not make a decision on hand ball. In many cases, the exact same handball incident would definitely NOT handball if it was a defending team, or attacking team if goal not scored. But, it becomes a handball if the player whose hand it brushed off scores.

Then you have the randomness at times as to when handball is given for a penalty.

Before VAR, I think it was a lot simpler. Sure, refs sometimes got it wrong or missed it, but we generally knew where we stood. Now they have multiple interpretations, basically written because of VAR. It allows them to play with their expensive toy, and justifies them employing the VAR refs, by frequently reviewing decisions. No onfield ref in a millions years would have disallowed Rashford's goal for handball, as defender smashed it into his torso from about half a yard. But now VAR can sit and look at super slow motions to see if it glanced off anywhere under the shirt sleeve.

I am pretty sure it will ge changed one day, but only when shame is brought on the game when a last second winning goal is ruled out in the FA Cup final or Champions League final. Something of great significance, ruined by pathetic rules


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Exactly, farcical. If you just saw a still of the ball hitting the hand, but no other indication as to where on the pitch, or whether it was attacking or defending team, or whether a goal was scored or not, you could not make a decision on hand ball. In many cases, the exact same handball incident would definitely NOT handball if it was a defending team, or attacking team if goal not scored. But, it becomes a handball if the player whose hand it brushed off scores.

Then you have the randomness at times as to when handball is given for a penalty.

Before VAR, I think it was a lot simpler. Sure, refs sometimes got it wrong or missed it, but we generally knew where we stood. Now they have multiple interpretations, basically written because of VAR. It allows them to play with their expensive toy, and justifies them employing the VAR refs, by frequently reviewing decisions. No onfield ref in a millions years would have disallowed Rashford's goal for handball, as defender smashed it into his torso from about half a yard. But now VAR can sit and look at super slow motions to see if it glanced off anywhere under the shirt sleeve.

I am pretty sure it will ge changed one day, but only when shame is brought on the game when a last second winning goal is ruled out in the FA Cup final or Champions League final. Something of great significance, ruined by pathetic rules
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree.
Still think the Liverpool one was a pen. He made himself bigger.
Rashford was a joke
Scamacca how come MOTD can see it and VAR can’t.? Still a goal imo.
Antonio =second phase


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## nickjdavis (Oct 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree.
Still think the Liverpool one was a pen. He made himself bigger.

Antonio =second phase 

Click to expand...

Having seen the Liverpool one again....can only agree.

As for Antonio....the second phase wouldnt have been able to happen if the handball hadn't occurred in the first phase. Ridiculous to allow the goal. Basically....you can commit an offence in the build up to a goal as long as the goal isnt scored in the same phase of play as the offence takes place. Thats just daft.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree.
Still think the Liverpool one was a pen. He made himself bigger.
Rashford was a joke
*Scamacca how come MOTD can see it and VAR can’t.? Still a goal imo.
Antonio =second phase* 

Click to expand...

Chris Kavanagh and VAR have had an absolute mare there. It is a complete joke and the inconsistency in the VAR decisions beggars belief.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree.
Still think the Liverpool one was a pen. He made himself bigger.
Rashford was a joke
Scamacca how come MOTD can see it and VAR can’t.? Still a goal imo.
Antonio =second phase 

Click to expand...

Lol I've just seen Antonio's goal. My stream went and I just saw the goal before rather than the highlights

I've seen goals ruled out for nothing, how on earth thats stood


----------



## Bdill93 (Oct 10, 2022)

Entertaining weekend in the prem!

What on earth has happened to Liverpool though?! Not even half the team they were two years ago!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 10, 2022)

Finally got round to watching it or the highlights

First half - Arsenal flew out of the blocks , great pass from Odegaard and nice finish

Liverpool then got back into it and got control , clear penalty for the handball , no doubt about that , stunned it wasn’t given , just look at the penalty that was given against Burn the day before , then we good goal from Nunez only for them to get undone by a quick break and poor defending

Second half - good start to score the equaliser but then Arsenal were far better for the half - their penalty , not in a million years , embarrassing and VAR for the second time shocking that they didn’t overrule or ask the ref to go to the screen , we should have cleared the ball but it’s a poor decision 

We may have just deserved a point but Arsenal played well in lots of periods - Saka and Martinelli are superb


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## Tashyboy (Oct 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree.
Still think the Liverpool one was a pen. He made himself bigger.
Rashford was a joke
Scamacca how come MOTD can see it and VAR can’t.? Still a goal imo.
Antonio =second phase 

Click to expand...

The bit that made me smile re the Liverpool non penalty for handball. Sky get to see all the angles before us. Not sure which commentator said “ oh I think that’s a penalty” when they waved play on there was stunned silence. 
Ave said it before and I will say it again. VAR is ok as long as there is consistency. There isn’t. And it/ var/ referees are killing the game. 
It’s Monday morning and we are not talking about Haaland breaking scoring records, Arsenals continued renaissance, Bruce being sacked, etc etc etc.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Finally got round to watching it or the highlights

First half - Arsenal flew out of the blocks , great pass from Odegaard and nice finish

Liverpool then got back into it and got control , clear penalty for the handball , no doubt about that , stunned it wasn’t given , just look at the penalty that was given against Burn the day before , then we good goal from Nunez only for them to get undone by a quick break and poor defending

Second half - good start to score the equaliser but then Arsenal were far better for the half - *their penalty , not in a million years* , embarrassing and VAR for the second time shocking that they didn’t overrule or ask the ref to go to the screen , we should have cleared the ball but it’s a poor decision

We may have just deserved a point but Arsenal played well in lots of periods - Saka and Martinelli are superb
		
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You mean when the Liverpool player kicked Jesus in the leg!?

I agree Liverpool could have had a penalty, and should have had a penalty based on other penalties that are given.

However, Arsenal looked much the better side. Even if Liverpool had a reasonable spell at one point, I can't see there is any way Liverpool deserved anything out of that game, they'd have been lucky Both Liverpool goals seemed to come from nowhere, whereas Arsenal seemed to be the more dangerous side during most of the game. Their goals were coming.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			The bit that made me smile re the Liverpool non penalty for handball. Sky get to see all the angles before us. Not sure which commentator said “ oh I think that’s a penalty” when they waved play on there was stunned silence.
Ave said it before and I will say it again. VAR is ok as long as there is consistency. There isn’t. And it/ var/ referees are killing the game.
It’s Monday morning and we are not talking about Haaland breaking scoring records, Arsenals continued renaissance, Bruce being sacked, etc etc etc.
		
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Yeah, I didn't see the incident initially, but heard Gary Neville doing his "ohhhhh, that'll be a penalty"


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## Swango1980 (Oct 10, 2022)

Great game from Luke Shaw yesterday. Ten Hag will have a decision on his hands now. Play him more often, or play Malacia, the newbie he brought in. Shaw did no harm for his World Cup chances.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Great game from Luke Shaw yesterday. Ten Hag will have a decision on his hands now. Play him more often, or play Malacia, the newbie he brought in. *Shaw did no harm for his World Cup chances.*

Click to expand...

Just secured his starting shirt!


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## BrianM (Oct 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Finally got round to watching it or the highlights

First half - Arsenal flew out of the blocks , great pass from Odegaard and nice finish

Liverpool then got back into it and got control , clear penalty for the handball , no doubt about that , stunned it wasn’t given , just look at the penalty that was given against Burn the day before , then we good goal from Nunez only for them to get undone by a quick break and poor defending

Second half - good start to score the equaliser but then Arsenal were far better for the half - their penalty , not in a million years , embarrassing and VAR for the second time shocking that they didn’t overrule or ask the ref to go to the screen , we should have cleared the ball but it’s a poor decision

We may have just deserved a point but Arsenal played well in lots of periods - Saka and Martinelli are superb
		
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It was a penalty, soft, but a penalty.
Arsenal were the better side from the game I watched on Sky, you never deserved a point in my opinion.
Liverpool are just struggling at the moment, but all teams go through these patches.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			You mean when the Liverpool player kicked Jesus in the leg!?

I agree Liverpool could have had a penalty, and should have had a penalty based on other penalties that are given.

However, Arsenal looked much the better side. Even if Liverpool had a reasonable spell at one point, I can't see there is any way Liverpool deserved anything out of that game, they'd have been lucky Both Liverpool goals seemed to come from nowhere, whereas Arsenal seemed to be the more dangerous side during most of the game. Their goals were coming.
		
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I agree Gunners we’re the better side overall.
But if the pen is given were 2-1 up and Klopp might have changed the tactics.
Ifs and butts but the game changed on that decision when we were on top and playing well.
Sucker punch before half time may not have happened


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Finally got round to watching it or the highlights

First half - Arsenal flew out of the blocks , great pass from Odegaard and nice finish

Liverpool then got back into it and got control , clear penalty for the handball , no doubt about that , stunned it wasn’t given , just look at the penalty that was given against Burn the day before , then we good goal from Nunez only for them to get undone by a quick break and poor defending

Second half - good start to score the equaliser but then Arsenal were far better for the half - their penalty , not in a million years , embarrassing and VAR for the second time shocking that they didn’t overrule or ask the ref to go to the screen , we should have cleared the ball but it’s a poor decision

We may have just deserved a point but Arsenal played well in lots of periods - Saka and Martinelli are superb
		
Click to expand...

The highlights have deceived you, in terms of overall play. Arsenal dominated most of the match, played very well indeed. You had very small bursts of good play, cut through Arsenal well at times, but Arsenal were by far the better team. They were wasteful in your box, had they been sharper they could have had a few more. The penalty incidents are another matter........

Thankfully, I don't have BT or a funky stick so I didn't see the later game


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 10, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The highlights have deceived you, in terms of overall play. Arsenal dominated most of the match, played very well indeed. You had very small bursts of good play, cut through Arsenal well at times, but Arsenal were by far the better team. They were wasteful in your box, had they been sharper they could have had a few more. The penalty incidents are another matter........

Thankfully, I don't have BT or a funky stick so I didn't see the later game 

Click to expand...

Just as well if you think our back four are open you don’t want to watch MU cut you to pieces.


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## fundy (Oct 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Finally got round to watching it or the highlights

First half - Arsenal flew out of the blocks , great pass from Odegaard and nice finish

Liverpool then got back into it and got control , clear penalty for the handball , no doubt about that , stunned it wasn’t given , just look at the penalty that was given against Burn the day before , then we good goal from Nunez only for them to get undone by a quick break and poor defending

Second half - good start to score the equaliser but then Arsenal were far better for the half - their penalty , not in a million years , embarrassing and VAR for the second time shocking that they didn’t overrule or ask the ref to go to the screen , we should have cleared the ball but it’s a poor decision

We may have just deserved a point but Arsenal played well in lots of periods - Saka and Martinelli are superb
		
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Haha Phil, as if you watched the game through tints on twitter lol. No comment on the Tsimikas elbow that knocked Jesus out? Actually no need once viewed through the tints................


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## Imurg (Oct 10, 2022)

So..Bruce sacked again.
What is it that Club owners see in these serial failures to give them a contract?
To be fair, I take a very back seat when it comes to footy these days but I don't remember Steve Bruce being a successful manager at any club bar getting promotion to the PL..
What do they see?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Haha Phil, as if you watched the game through tints on twitter lol. No comment on the Tsimikas elbow that knocked Jesus out? Actually no need once viewed through the tints................
		
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Twitter 🤷‍♂️

Watched it on Motd 2 - they didn’t show any elbow that knocked out Jesus ?


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## fundy (Oct 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Twitter 🤷‍♂️

Watched it on Motd 2 - they didn’t show any elbow that knocked out Jesus ?
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579365749684310017


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 10, 2022)

fundy said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579365749684310017

Click to expand...

Doesn’t look good - swinging his arm , always going to put yourself at the risk of being given a red card for that.

So I guess they turned Var off for the whole match then


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## fundy (Oct 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Doesn’t look good - swinging his arm , always going to put yourself at the risk of being given a red card for that.

So I guess they turned Var off for the whole match then
		
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Im guessing MOTD didnt show Allison cleaning out Jesus from the corner either.........

Our pen was soft but right, VAR got very little else right


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## Swango1980 (Oct 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Twitter 🤷‍♂️

Watched it on Motd 2 - they didn’t show any elbow that knocked out Jesus ?
		
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where you on holiday, or working? How come you didn't watch the game live?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just as well if you think our back four are open you don’t want to watch MU cut you to pieces.
		
Click to expand...

If you don't watch the game then it didn't really happen 🤭


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## Dando (Oct 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			So..Bruce sacked again.
What is it that Club owners see in these serial failures to give them a contract?
To be fair, I take a very back seat when it comes to footy these days but I don't remember Steve Bruce being a successful manager at any club bar getting promotion to the PL..
What do they see?
		
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he's had more comebacks than Status Quo


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## Whereditgo (Oct 10, 2022)

fundy said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579365749684310017

Click to expand...

For sure there was contact and that is the only clip I have seen of the incident, but knocked him out? really?....My 15 month old grandson gives a bigger swipe!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			So..Bruce sacked again.
What is it that Club owners see in these serial failures to give them a contract?
To be fair, I take a very back seat when it comes to footy these days but I don't remember Steve Bruce being a successful manager at any club bar getting promotion to the PL..
What do they see?
		
Click to expand...

Do you think Mark Hughes is next in line?

More seriously, I suspect Chris Wilder would slot in there very nicely. No compensation to pay, ready to go straight away.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			The bit that made me smile re the Liverpool non penalty for handball. Sky get to see all the angles before us. Not sure which commentator said “ oh I think that’s a penalty” when they waved play on there was stunned silence.
Ave said it before and I will say it again. VAR is ok as long as there is consistency. There isn’t. And it/ var/ referees are killing the game.
It’s Monday morning and we are not talking about Haaland breaking scoring records, Arsenals continued renaissance, Bruce being sacked, etc etc etc.
		
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Ronaldo also broke a milestone.


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## fundy (Oct 10, 2022)

Whereditgo said:



			For sure there was contact and that is the only clip I have seen of the incident, but knocked him out? really?....My 15 month old grandson gives a bigger swipe!
		
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Well he was face down on the floor not moving and the players from both sides were very concerned for his well being, ushering physios on etc and was a while until he came round and was moved


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Well he was face down on the floor not moving and the players from both sides were very concerned for his well being, ushering physios on etc and was a while until he came round and was moved
		
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Did he go off ?


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## fundy (Oct 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did he go off ?
		
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he was allowed back on, questionable whether he shouldve been thats for sure


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Well he was face down on the floor not moving and the players from both sides were very concerned for his well being, ushering physios on etc and was a while until he came round and was moved
		
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It looked soft but then he wasn't moving. Saying that, if he was really out or immobile then surely concussion protocols should have kicked in and he should have been in the dressing room being seen by a doctor?


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## Swango1980 (Oct 10, 2022)

Anyone worked out how much Steve Bruce has earned simply from his payouts after being sacked?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Anyone worked out how much Steve Bruce has earned simply from his payouts after being sacked?
		
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Less than Big Sam and definitely less than Jose. Nice work if you can get it


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			he was allowed back on, questionable whether he shouldve been thats for sure
		
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Saw he was on a challenge with Allison and VVD towards the end and looked ok.  Any chance he made a meal of it because if he was hit that bad and out of it then he is off straight away - that doesn’t change the fact that Tsimikas is very lucky to stay on


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Im guessing MOTD didnt show Allison cleaning out Jesus from the corner either.........

Our pen was soft but right, VAR got very little else right
		
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They did show Jesus shoving VVD inthe back as Allison came for the ball.
All crashed into each other then crying for a penalty.


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## fundy (Oct 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Saw he was on a challenge with Allison and VVD towards the end and looked ok.  Any chance he made a meal of it because if he was hit that bad and out of it then he is off straight away - that doesn’t change the fact that Tsimikas is very lucky to stay on
		
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He is prone to it but dont think so in this case, especially when you see the reaction of players like VVD who looked genuinely concerned for him instantly


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## Swango1980 (Oct 10, 2022)

Not sure what the most bizarre decision of the weekend was, the referees really do excel at giving us lots of options. Maybe it goes to giving West Ham a penalty, after West Ham's Craig Dawson effectively performed a WWE / rugby move by wiping out Pereira in the box. Yes, I know the ref had to warn Pereira a couple of times before he allowed the corner. But, if that ever happens again, the striker simply needs to try and wipe the defender out, and the ref will give the decision to the striker.

Refs should never have to warn players anyway. Just let them get on with it, and if there is a foul, give a foul.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Not sure what the most bizarre decision of the weekend was, the referees really do excel at giving us lots of options. Maybe it goes to giving West Ham a penalty, after West Ham's Craig Dawson effectively performed a WWE / rugby move by wiping out Pereira in the box. Yes, I know the ref had to warn Pereira a couple of times before he allowed the corner. But, if that ever happens again, the striker simply needs to try and wipe the defender out, and the ref will give the decision to the striker.

Refs should never have to warn players anyway. Just let them get on with it, and if there is a foul, give a foul.
		
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Yes I thought Pereria just stood his ground .
Dawson just runs into him.
Shocking decision Dawson just looking for it.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I thought Pereria just stood his ground .
Dawson just runs into him.
Shocking decision Dawson just looking for it.
		
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Thank goodness we have VAR now...


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Thank goodness we have VAR now...
		
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One idiot ref backing up his idiot mate.


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## BrianM (Oct 10, 2022)

Decent strike that Ashley Young, no bad for an old man 😂😂


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## nickjdavis (Oct 10, 2022)

Some tackles flying in...not sure this is going to end 11 v 11


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## fundy (Oct 10, 2022)

he might have scored tonight but Dennis gonna try the patience of the Forest fans!

saying that you could say that for several players on both sides so far......


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## fundy (Oct 10, 2022)

Be very surprised if I see a lower quality game in the premier league this season. i hope I dont...............


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## Swango1980 (Oct 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Be very surprised if I see a lower quality game in the premier league this season. i hope I dont...............
		
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One of the worst games I've seen. Ashley Young's goal might have saved it from being the worst of all time


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## nickjdavis (Oct 10, 2022)

was a tough watch for the neutral

2 teams, seemingly low on confidence and lacking any sort of coherence....perhaps understandable from Forest's point of view given the fact they seem to have bought two new teams in the transfer window, but not Villa. Stevie G needs to start earning his money now methinks, looking at Villas run of games coming up.


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			he might have scored tonight but Dennis gonna try the patience of the Forest fans!

saying that you could say that for several players on both sides so far......
		
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The little knob has the touch of an elephant and seems to think he doesn’t have 9 team mates to help him. So frustrating. 😂



nickjdavis said:



			was a tough watch for the neutral

2 teams, seemingly low on confidence and lacking any sort of coherence....perhaps understandable from Forest's point of view given the fact they seem to have bought two new teams in the transfer window, but not Villa. Stevie G needs to start earning his money now methinks, looking at Villas run of games coming up.
		
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Terrible to watch but plenty of positives from a Forest perspective. We looked much more organised and difficult to breakdown than we have the last 4 weeks. Once we find the right personnel, that formation will do us wonders. 

As you say, lack of cohesion, so hopefully time will improve that to give us some more consistency in the final 3rd. 

Most importantly; we stopped the rot and back Off the bottom of the table. That will help the confidence and hopefully can setup in a similar way against 3-goals-wolves and steal something at the weekend.


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## backwoodsman (Oct 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			he might have scored tonight but* Dennis gonna try the patience of the Forest fans*! 

saying that you could say that for several players on both sides so far......
		
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T'was not an easy watch last night. At least the defence looked a little more organised than last week. Admittedly that's not saying a lot as Villa never really posed much threat.
The one who is starting to try my patience is Henderson. Someone should perhaps have a word that it may be worth trying kick the ball upfield to a player rather than just booting it wildly into touch by the halfway line. If he did it once last night, he did it a dozen times.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 11, 2022)

We are so bad atm

Forest were the worst side I've seen in ages and we still cant score more than 1! 

Pathetic defending for their goal.

Need some creativity and we need it fast


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

For those with a sub theres an excellent article on the Forest owner Marinakis on The Athletic


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 11, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			T'was not an easy watch last night. At least the defence looked a little more organised than last week. Admittedly that's not saying a lot as Villa never really posed much threat.
The one who is starting to try my patience is Henderson. Someone should perhaps have a word that it may be worth trying kick the ball upfield to a player rather than just booting it wildly into touch by the halfway line. If he did it once last night, he did it a dozen times.
		
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Henderson is trying too hard I think. I don't think 12 months of warming the bench has done him any favours either. But yes, there were a few times last night that he could have got the ball upfield quickly to Gibbs-White and he slowed the pace right down. Frustrating, but hopefully it'll come. 

I'm just glad the 4 hour round trip wasn't a complete waste of time . It sounds like (from Cooper's post-game) that he's accepted that we can't (yet) play "cooperball" to get the results we need. The formation, with the "right" personnel (once identified), should hopefully reap some rewards. 



fundy said:



			For those with a sub theres an excellent article on the Forest owner Marinakis on The Athletic
		
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It's great isn't it (albeit long! )


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Henderson is trying too hard I think. I don't think 12 months of warming the bench has done him any favours either. But yes, there were a few times last night that he could have got the ball upfield quickly to Gibbs-White and he slowed the pace right down. Frustrating, but hopefully it'll come.

I'm just glad the 4 hour round trip wasn't a complete waste of time . It sounds like (from Cooper's post-game) that he's accepted that we can't (yet) play "cooperball" to get the results we need. The formation, with the "right" personnel (once identified), should hopefully reap some rewards.



It's great isn't it (albeit long! )
		
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Yeah bit war and peace like but good to know a lot of the context behind him and whats gone at Forest too.

Go on then Jon, if youre Cooper, whats your best XI?


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			Yeah bit war and peace like but good to know a lot of the context behind him and whats gone at Forest too.

Go on then Jon, if youre Cooper, whats your best XI?
		
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From the outside looking in, with the formation last night;

Aurier   Niakhaté (if fit)   McKenna   Toffolo (offers more defensively than Lodi) 

   Freuler    Mangala   Yates/O'Brien (don't mind which) 

Dennis                      Gibbs-White

                Awoniyi (or Surridge)

I don't think Johnson is starting calibre in the premier league just yet - but could provide impact off the bench in the closing stages, with his pace. Cook and Worrall just don't have the pace for the Premier League, unfortunately. 

Cooper's post-game interview with the local radio station last night was very telling (and encouraging). He's basically admitted that right now, his desired long term vision for how he wants the club to play football (i.e. cooperball with 3 at the back and two wingbacks) is not what's needed at this moment in time, and that they think they've found the blueprint for the here and now, with the squad we have and the number of new players. Not ideal it took 5 defeats on the bounce to get there, but the defeat to Leicester is as bad as I've seen us play in 12 months+ so maybe that's when reality set in that his desired formation is just not going to work with everyone not on the same page, and not having the right personnel to pull it off. 

If that's the case, the next few games might be a bit ugly in terms of performance, but hopefully means we've become more difficult to score against and can nick a goal here and there.


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

Interesting how few standouts there seems to be. Can make a case for including or dropping the majority it seems (Niakhate and Gibbs White only real secure ones if everyone fit?). Why no Mangala last night at all? 

And still no place for Jesse eh


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 11, 2022)

@Aztecs27 that is smart management, a great sign. He has done what his replacement would have done but he had the nous to do it himself rather than be stubborn. The good news is that no one has been cut adrift yet so you can stabilise for a few games, pick up points, gain confidence etc. and go again.


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			Interesting how few standouts there seems to be. Can make a case for including or dropping the majority it seems (Niakhate and Gibbs White only real secure ones if everyone fit?). Why no Mangala last night at all?

And still no place for Jesse eh 

Click to expand...

I can only assume Mangala is still nursing his injury that kept him out 4 games. As he was first name on the team sheet the first 3 weeks, and was our best player. Looked lively when he came on last week too. OR Cooper is managing his selection carefully and trying different pieces to see what fits. 

Jesse was, as alluded to in the Marinakis article, Milto's signing - and I think that's what's caused some of the issues in recent weeks. I'm not saying there's no place in the squad for him, but Gibbs-White looks a much better prospect and is Cooper's lad, so I would hope we see more of him - and maybe have Jesse on as a substitute to cause problems against tired legs. 

If everyone's fit, in my mind the following players ABSOLUTELY have to start: Nikhaté, Gibbs-White and Mangala. We've got decent options in most other positions, but having those 3 on the field is key I think. 

Even Aurier looked decent last night, but he really is a bit of a hot head, isn't he


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Aztecs27 that is smart management, a great sign. He has done what his replacement would have done but he had the nous to do it himself rather than be stubborn. The good news is that no one has been cut adrift yet so you can stabilise for a few games, pick up points, gain confidence etc. and go again.
		
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Exactly this - a win last night would have got us out the bottom 3 and likely the same scenario with a win against Wolves at the weekend. I'd rather the mistakes be identified and corrected now whilst there's still approx 90 points to play for.


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			I can only assume Mangala is still nursing his injury that kept him out 4 games. As he was first name on the team sheet the first 3 weeks, and was our best player. Looked lively when he came on last week too. OR Cooper is managing his selection carefully and trying different pieces to see what fits.

Jesse was, as alluded to in the Marinakis article, Milto's signing - and I think that's what's caused some of the issues in recent weeks. I'm not saying there's no place in the squad for him, but Gibbs-White looks a much better prospect and is Cooper's lad, so I would hope we see more of him - and maybe have Jesse on as a substitute to cause problems against tired legs.

If everyone's fit, in my mind the following players ABSOLUTELY have to start: Nikhaté, Gibbs-White and Mangala. We've got decent options in most other positions, but having those 3 on the field is key I think.

Even Aurier looked decent last night, but he really is a bit of a hot head, isn't he 

Click to expand...


Aurier the yellow card backers friend  the more he plays the better imho 🤣🤣🤣


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2022)

I predict Liverpool will earn a lot of clean sheets for the rest of October. TAA is out injured for 3 weeks


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2022)

Anyone seen the latest shocker of a handball decision in the City game?

Looks like VAR in Europe is desperate to disallow goals for the ball accidentally hitting a players arm, well before the goalscorer even touches the ball and scores


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2022)

Actually, the City game has become comical / entertaining.

Never have I seen VAR play such a starring role after only 30 mins. Not sure why the ref is even on the pitch, none of his decisions matter. VAR is bossing this game


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## adam6177 (Oct 11, 2022)

Surprised no chat on the city game... The handball decision on the goal is absolutely nuts, whoever thought having different handball rules depending on if you're attacking or defending should be shot.

Ridiculous.


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

Fair ply to Copenhagen, some result for them that despite City having 10 men and the utter patronising commentary on BT Sport


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 11, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579909046009618432
Stunning player but clearly seems an awful person


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2022)

Juventus fans will be angry, not good results in Champions League this year


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579909046009618432
Stunning player but clearly seems an awful person
		
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5/2 to go to liverpool in january, would he still be an awful person if he signs? 

not convinced hes an awful person, certainly not compared to plenty pro footballers, hes not even in the top 3 in the PSG starting XI lol. hugely ambitious and badly advised - far more likely for me


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## BrianM (Oct 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Juventus fans will be angry, not good results in Champions League this year
		
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Hardly recognise this Juventus side anymore, you used to know every player a few years ago.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			5/2 to go to liverpool in january, would he still be an awful person if he signs? 

not convinced hes an awful person, certainly not compared to plenty pro footballers, hes not even in the top 3 in the PSG starting XI lol. hugely ambitious and badly advised - far more likely for me
		
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He won’t be coming to Liverpool - not a chance we can afford his level of wages , only Madrid can really. Every other month there is something about him and it comes down to being spoilt and demanding - any team would love Mbappe  the player


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He won’t be coming to Liverpool - not a chance we can afford his level of wages , only Madrid can really. Every other month there is something about him and it comes down to being spoilt and demanding - any team would love Mbappe  the player
		
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yep cant see him going anywhere apart from Madrid tbh, cant see it happening in january either


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

Tomori sent off v chelsea 

surely thats only a yellow under double jeopardy rule


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2022)

What planet is Robbie Savage on!? Mount gets pulled down when he is clean through, ref gives penalty and red card. Replay shows Milan defender has hands all over him, twice. Savage says it is never a penalty, and VAR needs to intervene. He then goes on to say it is a physical contact game.

I constantly hear pundits say ex footballers should be in the VAR studio. They know the game, after all.

Imagine Robbie Savage on VAR


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			Tomori sent off v chelsea 

surely thats only a yellow under double jeopardy rule
		
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It only is double jeopardy if he genuinely tried to win the ball. Pulling the shirt doesnt qualify


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			Tomori sent off v chelsea 

surely thats only a yellow under double jeopardy rule
		
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Had he attempted to play the ball, yes, yellow; because he made no attempt to play the ball it’s a red.


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It only is double jeopardy if he genuinely tried to win the ball. Pulling the shirt doesnt qualify
		
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i genuinely dont get the point of the rule if that is a pen and a red card, no change there with modern footie lol


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			i genuinely dont get the point of the rule if that is a pen and a red card, no change there with modern footie lol
		
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The rule is clear. If the defender puts a tackle in, mistimes it, it is a penalty and yellow. Before it used to be an automatic red.

However, if the foul is not a tackle, but a player simply grabbing a player or intentionally taking them out, it is a red.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 11, 2022)

Going to be a few red cards in this game I think. Milan look like they'll be a bit like Atletico, and try and force the ref to dish out cards to Chelsea. Ref is trigger happy as well


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 11, 2022)

Going to be double figure cards in the Chelsea game 

Bellingham scoring again


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

Mbappe the only problem when the like of Messi dont celebrate when he scores lol


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2022)

The full 6.0 for that effort from Neymar lol


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## Tashyboy (Oct 11, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Surprised no chat on the city game... The handball decision on the goal is absolutely nuts, whoever thought having different handball rules depending on if you're attacking or defending should be shot.

Ridiculous.
		
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Am back from me meeting so I can now Chuck in a few comments. The Mahrez handball, two players jostling for a ball coming out of the gods, it brushes his hand and it’s handball coz five seconds later Rodri scores a worldly. He don’t score it’s not handball. 😳😳Sweet soddin mother. Not one player complained about the goal. Where was VAR when the keeper got a hand to a save and the ref gives a goal kick. The rules are just plain stupid.


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## BrianM (Oct 11, 2022)

Good win for Chelsea away at Milan, never an easy place to go.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 11, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Good win for Chelsea away at Milan, never an easy place to go.
		
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A pal of mine has gone to the San Siro. Had to walk to the stadium and the toilets are crap 😂👍


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## 4LEX (Oct 12, 2022)

Thought City were woeful tonight. Obviously happy with an away point with Liverpool on Sunday but still embarrassing for a team that cost over a billion versus a League One level outfit.

They're gonna walk the league but the CL picture looks bleak - if Haaland is injured for a period they've become so reliant on him they're going to struggle.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 12, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Thought City were woeful tonight. Obviously happy with an away point with Liverpool on Sunday but still embarrassing for a team that cost over a billion versus a League One level outfit.

They're gonna walk the league but the CL picture looks bleak - if Haaland is injured for a period they've become so reliant on him they're going to struggle.
		
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Bit over the top, for a side that was playing away from home, resting players for the weekend  and playing with 10 men for an hour.

Even with 10 men, they looked comfortable. They just didn't try to get past 3rd gear and try hard to win.

Not sure how the Champions League picture looks bleak, given that they are still huge favourites to many / most.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 12, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Thought City were woeful tonight. Obviously happy with an away point with Liverpool on Sunday but still embarrassing for a team that cost over a billion versus a League One level outfit.

They're gonna walk the league but the CL picture looks bleak - if Haaland is injured for a period they've become so reliant on him they're going to struggle.
		
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Got to say I usually enjoy reading your posts, but that one was rammel. Played an hour with 10 men and still had more possession and chances and corners. A goal disallowed, penalty missed and they rely on Haaland. 😳He was rested and so was the 3rd highest scorer in the Prem, Foden. On a night City were embarrassing they qualified for the Champs league.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 12, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Got to say I usually enjoy reading your posts, but that one was rammel. Played an hour with 10 men and still had more possession and chances and corners. A goal disallowed, penalty missed and they rely on Haaland. 😳He was rested and so was the 3rd highest scorer in the Prem, Foden. On a night City were embarrassing they qualified for the Champs league.
		
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Yeah, I did check the stats, in case my eyes had deceived me, and they painted a different picture to what we both saw, and maybe support 4LEX point of view.

City won shots on target 4-1
City won shots off target 6-4
City won blocked shots 5-1
City had 56% possession
City won corners 8-4
City won crosses 18-11

I wonder how many other teams in Europe would take that performance as a woeful display, and painted a bleak picture?

Meanwhile, Chelsea have dropped 5 points in their group (but now looking decent). Real Madrid also dropped a couple of points, as did PSG. Juventus look all but out. Liverpool's season looks bleak generally. Atletico currently sit bottom of their group, and Barcelona have dropped 6 points in 3 CL games. Only Bayern have a 100% record so far.


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## GreiginFife (Oct 12, 2022)

I think someone is angling for Adrian Durham’s job on Talk Sport…


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2022)

Looks like VAR had a great weekend 

https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/11/arse...pool-due-to-var-technical-error-17541213/amp/


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## fundy (Oct 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like VAR had a great weekend

https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/11/arse...pool-due-to-var-technical-error-17541213/amp/

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looks a yard onside to me in that pic  far less than tsimikas is out of position


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## Dando (Oct 12, 2022)

Watching the Napoli V Ajax game. Similar handball incident to the Liverpool one and it’s given as a penalty  🤷🏻‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like VAR had a great weekend

https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/11/arse...pool-due-to-var-technical-error-17541213/amp/

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How can a player be out of shot of five cameras while he’s on the pitch.?
Laughable!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2022)

Dando said:



			Watching the Napoli V Ajax game. Similar handball incident to the Liverpool one and it’s given as a penalty  🤷🏻‍♂️
		
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I think that’s because it is / was a penalty


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## hairball_89 (Oct 12, 2022)

Well... Whatever Jurgen said at HT in Ibrox, if he could say it again before the match on Sunday I'd be grateful! 

Salah fastest hat trick in CL, he's just special. Still much to work on, but winning 7-1 is never a time for moans! Bring on city!


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## fundy (Oct 12, 2022)

Cracking game in Barca tonight, couldve have been absolutely anything


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Well... Whatever Jurgen said at HT in Ibrox, if he could say it again before the match on Sunday I'd be grateful!

Salah fastest hat trick in CL, he's just special. Still much to work on, but winning 7-1 is never a time for moans! Bring on city!
		
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Yes we almost finished every chance we got.
Great second half display.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 12, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Well... Whatever Jurgen said at HT in Ibrox, if he could say it again before the match on Sunday I'd be grateful! 

Salah fastest hat trick in CL, he's just special. Still much to work on, but winning 7-1 is never a time for moans! Bring on city!
		
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Yeah, special, only thing he has done in a year except score against United  

Scottish teams are awful. Great confidence builders for opponents


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## BrianM (Oct 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, special, only thing he has done in a year except score against United 

Scottish teams are awful. Great confidence builders for opponents
		
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Says someone who’s probably never played a sport to a decent level 🙄

I say that with respect where there is no easy games, sometimes they get away from you and confidence is low but to say all Scottish teams are awful is a sign of someone that is clueless about professional sport.

Liverpool are a world class side and Rangers well beaten, but given the resources between England and Scotland, Rangers have punched well above their weight in recent times.

I wouldn’t mind criticism but Man Utd have been terrible since Sir Alex Left and the money they’ve spent.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, special, only thing he has done in a year except score against United 

*Scottish teams are awful. Great confidence builders for opponents*

Click to expand...

Not always 

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/84817--celtic-vs-man-united/


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## Swango1980 (Oct 12, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Says someone who’s probably never played a sport to a decent level 🙄

I say that with respect where there is no easy games, sometimes they get away from you and confidence is low but to say all Scottish teams are awful is a sign of someone that is clueless about professional sport.

Liverpool are a world class side and Rangers well beaten, but given the resources between England and Scotland, Rangers have punched well above their weight in recent times.

I wouldn’t mind criticism but Man Utd have been terrible since Sir Alex Left and the money they’ve spent.
		
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Yawn, there we go. Opening with that meaningless line. One must not be critical if you have not participated at the same level. 

Every player in the Rangers side are miles better than me. Does that make you happy? They are still awful relative to the standard they are up against. Dreadful.

But, how dare you criticise Man Utd. Have you played in the Premier League to qualify such a statement?


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## Swango1980 (Oct 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not always 

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/84817--celtic-vs-man-united/

Click to expand...

You do realise I am talking about today in particular? Not 15 or so years ago.

Besides, all of our teams have lost against minnows in our history. They are still minnows we should have stuffed.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 12, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Says someone who’s probably never played a sport to a decent level 🙄

I say that with respect where there is no easy games, sometimes they get away from you and confidence is low but to say all Scottish teams are awful is a sign of someone that is clueless about professional sport.

*Liverpool are a world class side *and Rangers well beaten, but given the resources between England and Scotland, Rangers have punched well above their weight in recent times.

I wouldn’t mind criticism but Man Utd have been terrible since Sir Alex Left and the money they’ve spent.
		
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change are for were. As they say the table don’t lie. That said the Prem league is unpredictable so they could get three points at the weekend 😖


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## BiMGuy (Oct 12, 2022)

And that’s why Rangers and Celtic don’t belong in the EPL. Smashed 7-1 by a mid table team 😂


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, special, only thing he has done in a year except score against United 

Scottish teams are awful. Great confidence builders for opponents
		
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Most Scottish teams are honest, decent outfits working hard to live within their means and not sell their soul to whatever money-laden unsavoury regime or individual might happen along with their bling-laden entourage.  

I’m happy supporting a diddy not very good team that I can feel proud about and can celebrate whatever success it might achieve through hard work, organisation and togetherness - no matter how small.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 12, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Most Scottish teams are honest, decent outfits working hard to live within their means and *not sell their soul to whatever money-laden unsavoury regime or individual might happen along with their bling-laden entourage*. 

I’m happy supporting a diddy not very good team that I can feel proud about and can celebrate whatever success it might achieve through hard work, organisation and togetherness - no matter how small.
		
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That’s what every team no one wants to invest in says 😉


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## Tashyboy (Oct 12, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Most Scottish teams are honest, decent outfits working hard to live within their means and not sell their soul to whatever money-laden unsavoury regime or individual might happen along with their bling-laden entourage. 

I’m happy supporting a diddy not very good team that I can feel proud about and can celebrate whatever success it might achieve through hard work, organisation and togetherness - no matter how small.
		
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Technically speaking there is a rise in clubs north of the border that are struggling financially. Not only that Rangers of recent were not very honest.Hence a fall from grace.
Quote,
Americans have controlling interests in Aberdeen, Dundee United and Hibs so far and Low – who was Fergus McCann’s advisor when the Canadian businessman saved Celtic from bankruptcy – says investors from across the water have decisions to make.
I to followed a Diddy, little Citeh, but when the investors came in they never spoke to one City fan or I suspect none from Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Hibs or Celtic.


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## rudebhoy (Oct 12, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Technically speaking there is a rise in clubs north of the border that are struggling financially. Not only that Rangers of recent were not very honest.Hence a fall from grace.
Quote,
Americans have controlling interests in Aberdeen, Dundee United and Hibs so far and Low – who was Fergus McCann’s advisor when the Canadian businessman saved Celtic from bankruptcy – says investors from across the water have decisions to make.
I to followed a Diddy, little Citeh, but when the investors came in they never spoke to one City fan or I suspect none from Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Hibs or Celtic.
		
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Fergus McCann was born and bred in the West of Scotland, and in his youth was a Celtic fan who regularly attended matches with his local supporters club. He emigrated to Canada, made his fortune (through golf), and came back to Scotland to rescue his club when they were facing going bust.

He was not the archetypal foreign investor you are trying to portray.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Most Scottish teams are honest, decent outfits working hard to live within their means and not sell their soul to whatever money-laden unsavoury regime or individual might happen along with their bling-laden entourage.  

I’m happy supporting a diddy not very good team that I can feel proud about and can celebrate whatever success it might achieve through hard work, organisation and togetherness - no matter how small.
		
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This is where interpreting context is crucial. When I said Scottish clubs are awful, I didn't mean it in the sense they are bad people who are managing their clubs poorly.

I fully appreciate their income is much much lower than many of their opponents in Europe.

When I said awful, it was purely on their footballing ability relative to others in CL. If it helps clear things up, maybe I could say Scottish clubs have significantly less football ability than others, and therefore should provide a good confidence booster to many of the better clubs in Europe (in terms of footballing ability).


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## pokerjoke (Oct 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Cracking game in Barca tonight, couldve have been absolutely anything
		
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Barca defense is shocking 
Kane does miss penalties 
Dier is our best English defender?


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## KenL (Oct 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			This is where interpreting context is crucial. When I said Scottish clubs are awful, I didn't mean it in the sense they are bad people who are managing their clubs poorly.

I fully appreciate their income is much much lower than many of their opponents in Europe.

When I said awful, it was purely on their footballing ability relative to others in CL. If it helps clear things up, maybe I could say Scottish clubs have significantly less football ability than others, and therefore should provide a good confidence booster to many of the better clubs in Europe (in terms of footballing ability).
		
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The awful (now called lower ability) Rangers made it to a Euro final last season.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Most Scottish teams are honest, decent outfits working hard to live within their means and not sell their soul to whatever money-laden unsavoury regime or individual might happen along with their bling-laden entourage. 

I’m happy supporting a diddy not very good team that I can feel proud about and can celebrate whatever success it might achieve through hard work, organisation and togetherness - no matter how small.
		
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Sorry but if the money came it wouldn't be turned down.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 13, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Fergus McCann was born and bred in the West of Scotland, and in his youth was a Celtic fan who regularly attended matches with his local supporters club. He emigrated to Canada, made his fortune (through golf), and came back to Scotland to rescue his club when they were facing going bust.

*He was not the archetypal foreign investor you are trying to portray*.
		
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I am not trying to portray any investor be it from home or abroad. What I am trying to portray is a lot of clubs either side of the border are going to struggle unless there is investment. Hypothetically where would Celtic now be without McCann.That’s my point.  And fortunately for some clubs there are a few people like amcCann knocking about.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 13, 2022)

KenL said:



			The awful (now called lower ability) Rangers made it to a Euro final last season.
		
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Any thoughts on where it’s gone wrong in the last year Ken 🤔


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## Swango1980 (Oct 13, 2022)

KenL said:



			The awful (now called lower ability) Rangers made it to a Euro final last season.
		
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Yes, and Greece have won the Euros

Happy for you to disagree though. I'm sure you can find a way to say both Rangers and Celtic have been excellent (opposite of awful) in Europe this year. Splendid display by Rangers last night, they really stuck the knife in to a team struggling for form


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 13, 2022)

Last nights score doesn’t fully represent the way the game was 

Rangers were very good for the first 45 and more than matched Liverpool and could have been up at half time 

Second half Liverpool started to control it but   rangers still had their chances - with 25 mins to go it was still 2-1 , then you can tell Liverpool stepped up another level and got those goals - but it’s too easy to dismiss Rangers based on the scoreline only


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## Swango1980 (Oct 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Last nights score doesn’t fully represent the way the game was 

Rangers were very good for the first 45 and more than matched Liverpool and could have been up at half time 

Second half Liverpool started to control it but   rangers still had their chances - with 25 mins to go it was still 2-1 , then you can tell Liverpool stepped up another level and got those goals - but it’s too easy to dismiss Rangers based on the scoreline only
		
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You are right. Liverpool were lucky last night


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			You are right. Liverpool were lucky last night
		
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Was it a conscious decision to see who you can annoy this morning or is it just a natural reaction 🙄

Rangers and Celtic may have struggled but at least they are there


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## GreiginFife (Oct 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Any thoughts on where it’s gone wrong in the last year Ken 🤔
		
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They sold their better performing players and replaced them with lesser quality. 

I don’t think it’s any more complex than that. Signing a player for £4m that hadn’t played a first team game in yonks and, more puzzlingly, chasing and chasing a player (Yilmaz), paying over the odds (or what they wanted to) and then not playing him. That’s bonkers.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it a conscious decision to see who you can annoy this morning or is it just a natural reaction 🙄

Rangers and Celtic may have struggled but at least they are there
		
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If Man Utd played in the Scottish league, they'd be there every year. I guess I could say the same for a side like Norwich 

Didn't choose to annoy anyone. I simply said Scottish teams have been awful, more specifically played very badly relative to their opponents. It was no suprise to me, and they are out of their depth these days in the CL.

I wanted Rangers to win each round in the Europa league last year, and was disappointed for them when they didn't win. Even in that inferior competition they would have been punching above their weight, but did very very well.


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If Man Utd played in the Scottish league, they'd be there every year. I guess I could say the same for a side like Norwich 

Didn't choose to annoy anyone. I simply said Scottish teams have been awful, more specifically played very badly relative to their opponents. It was no suprise to me, and they are out of their depth these days in the CL.

I wanted Rangers to win each round in the Europa league last year, and was disappointed for them when they didn't win. Even in that *inferior* *competition*  would have been punching above their weight, but did very very well.
		
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OK I’ll bite:

1. If you did not think that you did not chose to annoy anyone please have a look at the replies.
2. Sometimes, usually, it is a sign of strength to hold your hand up and say “I made a mistake, apologise“ and move on.
3. It is not that inferior Competition, especially when some of the 3 rd place teams from The Champions League come in which may include Barca. Oh and please remind me,  Which* “Inferior Competition*” are Man U. playing in this season?


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## Swango1980 (Oct 13, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			OK I’ll bite:

1. If you did not think that you did not chose to annoy anyone please have a look at the replies.
2. Sometimes, usually, it is a sign of strength to hold your hand up and say “I made a mistake, apologise“ and move on.
3. It is not that inferior Competition, especially when some of the 3 rd place teams from The Champions League come in which may include Barca. Oh and please remind me,  Which* “Inferior Competition*” are Man U. playing in this season?
		
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1. My initial post was not meant to offend, I was just saying it like I saw it. The fact that some were offended is not my issue, especially when they may have mis-interpreted the context of "awful"

2. I didn't make a mistake. I stand by my comment that Scottish clubs are awful, relative to the biggest teams in that competition, in terms of ability. I have since explained what I meant by awful, so that people don't think I am saying fans should be ashamed of supporting such clubs. My local team in N Ireland are awful in comparison to other Northern Irish teams, and absolutely horrifically abysmal in relation to CL teams. Fans can still be proud to support them (incidentally, their best player of all time, from the glory days in the 90's, went to Celtic - Paul Byrne)

3. It is an inferior competition. Of course it is. Any CL teams that end up in the Europa League it failed in the CL, and they often then become favourites to win the Europa League. And yes, Man Utd are absolutely playing in an inferior competition. Every Man Utd fan would rather be in the CL than Europa League, because CL is a much better competition with much more quality. But, as all fans have reminded us for a very very long time, and Man Utd fans have agreed with, Man Utd have been extremely poor, even awful, for quite some time. I'm still proud to be a Man Utd fan, proud of what they have achieved and hopeful for the future. Doesn't mean I'm am not often incredibly frustrated, upset or angry with how they have performed at times.


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## Orikoru (Oct 13, 2022)

Are people really offended that he called Rangers awful?? They've conceded 16 goals in 4 games and scored once!  Even Plzen have done (marginally) better than that in a group with Barca, Inter & Bayern.

Some people seriously need to relax, it's only football for crying out loud. Nobody dies or gets hurt if someone calls a rubbish team awful.


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## Orikoru (Oct 13, 2022)

Speaking of awful teams... back in mid-September my office set up a sweepstake where we all get a Prem team, and when your team has amassed 11 goals exactly you win the pot (has to be exact, if they go past 11 you have to wait until they hit 22 etc). 

I got Wolves. They haven't even scored once yet.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 13, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Are people really offended that he called Rangers awful?? They've conceded 16 goals in 4 games and scored once!  Even Plzen have done (marginally) better than that in a group with Barca, Inter & Bayern.

Some people seriously need to relax, it's only football for crying out loud. Nobody dies or gets hurt if someone calls a rubbish team awful.
		
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Exactly.

Rangers = turd when it comes to the Champions League this year


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## KenL (Oct 13, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Speaking of awful teams... back in mid-September my office set up a sweepstake where we all get a Prem team, and when your team has amassed 11 goals exactly you win the pot (has to be exact, if they go past 11 you have to wait until they hit 22 etc).

I got Wolves. They haven't even scored once yet. 

Click to expand...

Are Wolves worse than Rangers?


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## KenL (Oct 13, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Exactly.

Rangers = turd when it comes to the Champions League this year 

Click to expand...

I think the level of opposition is the clear reason for that. Sold our best player to Ajax.
Napoli have been way better than everyone expected and Liverpool below par for them.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 13, 2022)

KenL said:



			I think the level of opposition is the clear reason for that. Sold our best player to Ajax.
Napoli have been way better than everyone expected and Liverpool below par for them.
		
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Opposition
Club Budgets
League competitiveness 

Plenty of excuses for it - but it is true


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## 4LEX (Oct 13, 2022)

Rangers just getting to the group stages was a huge success. Throw in the toughest group possible and you've got the current situation. From the limited action I've seen they've performed better than the scorelines suggest (Napoli and last night). At 1-0 down Liverpool were 2.6 to win the game, even the bookies didn't fancy their chances based on the way the game was going. Rangers were in it until the third goal and then it was a case of being physically drained and Liverpool bringing Salah off the bench.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 13, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Rangers just getting to the group stages was a huge success. *Throw in the toughest group possible *and you've got the current situation. From the limited action I've seen they've performed better than the scorelines suggest (Napoli and last night). At 1-0 down Liverpool were 2.6 to win the game, even the bookies didn't fancy their chances based on the way the game was going. Rangers were in it until the third goal and then it was a case of being physically drained and Liverpool bringing Salah off the bench.
		
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I think Viktoria Plzen might have an argument that they have the toughest group possible. Bayern Munich, Inter Milan and Barcelona making up their opponents.


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## Slime (Oct 13, 2022)

I'm not sure how United aren't three or four up at the break.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm not sure how United aren't three or four up at the break.
		
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No squirrels in the starting 11 👍


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## Slime (Oct 13, 2022)

And so it goes on, great double save by their 'keeper.


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## Slime (Oct 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			No squirrels in the starting 11 👍
		
Click to expand...

They're chomping at the bit and are raring to make an appearance!


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## Swango1980 (Oct 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			They're chomping at the bit and are raring to make an appearance!
		
Click to expand...

United rarely go on a scoring spree. Even against weaker sides. Struggle to see sides off, and give themselves a relatively comfortable finish to the game.

Couple of hairy moments as well.


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## Slime (Oct 13, 2022)

Surely a red card, that was horrid.


Yellow card, just shocking.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			Surely a red card, that was horrid.


Yellow card, just shocking.
		
Click to expand...

I guess there isn't a point of VAR anymore


----------



## Slime (Oct 13, 2022)




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## Swango1980 (Oct 13, 2022)

Left that ridiculously late.

Actually felt sorry for Nicosia, whilst being delighted at the same time. Did not think McTomminay would get the winner, especially after his horrific effort a short time beforehand


----------



## Slime (Oct 13, 2022)

Probably the most ridiculous 1-0 I've ever seen ................................ was De Gea even on the pitch?
I wonder what Haaland would have done if Utd had him up top?


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## KenL (Oct 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Left that ridiculously late.

Actually felt sorry for Nicosia, whilst being delighted at the same time. Did not think McTomminay would get the winner, especially after his horrific effort a short time beforehand
		
Click to expand...

How poor are Man Utd. Relying on a talent free Scottish player to dig them out of a hole.

I wish Rangers had played Man U last night instead of Liverpool, we might have had a chance against them. 🤣


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## Slime (Oct 13, 2022)

KenL said:



*How poor are Man Utd*. Relying on a *talent free Scottish player* to dig them out of a hole.

I wish Rangers had played Man U last night instead of Liverpool, we might have had a chance against them. 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I can almost taste the bitterness, just hilarious.
There's not a Scottish team who would come close to United.


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## KenL (Oct 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			I can almost taste the bitterness, just hilarious.
There's not a Scottish team who would come close to United.
		
Click to expand...

You might be able to taste the bitterness but you can't detect the irony. 🤭


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## Swango1980 (Oct 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			Probably the most ridiculous 1-0 I've ever seen ................................ was De Gea even on the pitch?
I wonder what Haaland would have done if Utd had him up top?
		
Click to expand...

Unsure, the players around Haaland might not have been very good at setting him up. 

They were reluctant to cross a ball, and when they did it was usually poor. Always looked a bit scrappy and rushed, but not been great at breaking down ultra defensive sides for ages. Got a few chances coming in from sides, mainly Rashford, but was foiled by poor finishing or good goal keeping.

If City played that team, with Fred up front, they'd probably win 4 or 5 nil (although Fred probably wouldn't score)


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## rudebhoy (Oct 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I am not trying to portray any investor be it from home or abroad. What I am trying to portray is a lot of clubs either side of the border are going to struggle unless there is investment. Hypothetically where would Celtic now be without McCann.That’s my point.  And fortunately for some clubs there are a few people like amcCann knocking about.
		
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Where would Celtic be without McCann? They were hours away from from being closed down by the bank when the board finally caved in and accepted his takeover bid. Without McCann, the club would have died. Fortunately we avoided that fate, unlike our near neighbours a few years later.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 14, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Where would Celtic be without McCann? They were hours away from from being closed down by the bank when the board finally caved in and accepted his takeover bid. Without McCann, the club would have died. Fortunately we avoided that fate, unlike our near neighbours a few years later.
		
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Surely Tashyboy's original comment was made as a response to someone mentioning Scottish clubs being good honest clubs, working hard within their financial means and not selling their soul to the devil?

I thought he was just highlighting the financial issues some Scottish clubs have got into, Rangers being a prime example.

So, are you not now both saying the same thing, in opposition to the comment Tashyboy was responding to initially?

Why would Celtic have died (not a leading question, I just don't know the circumstances)?


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## rudebhoy (Oct 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Surely Tashyboy's original comment was made as a response to someone mentioning Scottish clubs being good honest clubs, working hard within their financial means and not selling their soul to the devil?

I thought he was just highlighting the financial issues some Scottish clubs have got into, Rangers being a prime example.

So, are you not now both saying the same thing, in opposition to the comment Tashyboy was responding to initially?

Why would Celtic have died (not a leading question, I just don't know the circumstances)?
		
Click to expand...

The club was massively in debt to the Bank of Scotland who decided to call in the debt, and told the club they had 24 hours to pay a large guarantee or they would start the winding up process. The club didn't have the money to pay the guarantee, fortunately McCann did.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 14, 2022)

KenL said:



			How poor are Man Utd. Relying on a talent free Scottish player to dig them out of a hole.

*I wish Rangers had played Man U last night instead of Liverpool, we might have had a chance against them.* 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Funnily enough this is exactly (other than the word ‘we’ 😉 ) what I said last night to our club chef…a staunch ManUtd man…he didn’t smile.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 14, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Funnily enough this is exactly (other than the word ‘we’ 😉 ) what I said last night to our club chef…a staunch ManUtd man…he didn’t smile.
		
Click to expand...

The feeling is mutual, I'd have loved Utd have played Rangers. Rashford needs a boost of confidence


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## Tashyboy (Oct 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



*Surely Tashyboy's original comment was made as a response to someone mentioning Scottish clubs being good honest clubs, working hard within their financial means and not selling their soul to the devil?*

I thought he was just highlighting the financial issues some Scottish clubs have got into, Rangers being a prime example.

So, are you not now both saying the same thing, in opposition to the comment Tashyboy was responding to initially?

Why would Celtic have died (not a leading question, I just don't know the circumstances)?
		
Click to expand...

I did, and it wasn’t a dig at scotish football just pointing out. Unfortunately the same problem has reared its head in Rugby union re Worcester and Wasps. Unfortunately No McCann or AN OTHER is about.


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## rudebhoy (Oct 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I did, and it wasn’t a dig at scotish football just pointing out. Unfortunately the same problem has reared its head in Rugby union re Worcester and Wasps. Unfortunately No McCann or AN OTHER is about.
		
Click to expand...

apologies, obviously picked you up wrong.

in terms of Celtic in the CL this season, we have played well for large chunks of every game - 54 goal attempts in 4 games backs that up - but have failed to take our chances, then we seem to dip around the hour mark. This coincides with making multiple substitutions around then, keeping the same game plan, but replacing our better players with inferior ones. We get away with that in the SPL but not in Europe.


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## fundy (Oct 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The feeling is mutual, I'd have loved Utd have played Rangers. Rashford needs a boost of confidence 

Click to expand...


Thats a new one - premier league player of the month needing a boost of confidence 😲


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## Tashyboy (Oct 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			Thats a new one - premier league player of the month needing a boost of confidence 😲
		
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😂😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Oct 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			Thats a new one - premier league player of the month needing a boost of confidence 😲
		
Click to expand...

He's a fragile guy at the moment. He needs every boost of confidence he can get, sustain his form, and win PL player of the month every month 

Besides, I suspect that award was a bit of a sympathy vote, due to the improvement he had made compared to recent times. Haaland hasn't been too shabby


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## Golfmmad (Oct 14, 2022)

KenL said:



			How poor are Man Utd. Relying on a talent free Scottish player to dig them out of a hole.

I wish Rangers had played Man U last night instead of Liverpool, we might have had a chance against them. 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I thought Mctomminay took his goal well, plenty of talent there!


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 14, 2022)

When did "Man of the match" become "Player of the match" on Sky? Can understand that for women's football that they would have player of the match but when it's men's football surely it could still be man of the match.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 14, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			When did "Man of the match" become "Player of the match" on Sky? Can understand that for women's football that they would have player of the match but when it's men's football surely it could still be man of the match.
		
Click to expand...

I noticed that changed a month or so ago. Perhaps after the England ladies won the Euro's, Man of the Match became on offensive term. Especially after the fallout when Souness referred to it as a Mans Game (in reference to it simply being a hard fought game he was commenting on in the PL)

I guess it is safer to never reference gender again


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 14, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			When did "Man of the match" become "Player of the match" on Sky? Can understand that for women's football that they would have player of the match but when it's men's football surely it could still be man of the match.
		
Click to expand...

It will be MVP soon.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			It will be MVP soon.
		
Click to expand...

😱😱😱


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 15, 2022)

Klopp moaning about City’s spending because Liverpool are struggling 😂😂😂
Like he’s working with a shoe string budget 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ 🎻


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 15, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581309651022671873


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## Bazzatron (Oct 15, 2022)

Might watch MOTD again, needed that win so much.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 15, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581309651022671873

Click to expand...

And apparently they’re back together 🤦‍♂️

Also seen people use this to score points against others on socia media.

Pondlife.


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## Dando (Oct 15, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			And apparently they’re back together 🤦‍♂️

Also seen people use this to score points against others on socia media.

Pondlife.
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t that breach his bail conditions?


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 15, 2022)

Dando said:



			Wouldn’t that breach his bail conditions?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure,seen it on Twitter so there’s a chance it’s not true 😂


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## Swango1980 (Oct 15, 2022)

Dando said:



			Wouldn’t that breach his bail conditions?
		
Click to expand...

The headlines were he breached his bail conditions, and hence arrested. Maybe you have a point


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## Dando (Oct 15, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not sure,seen it on Twitter so there’s a chance it’s not true 😂
		
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Everything on Twitter is true!


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 15, 2022)

Dando said:



			Everything on Twitter is true!
		
Click to expand...

Depends if it fits the narrative,same with story’s in the media 😉


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## 4LEX (Oct 15, 2022)

Bloody hell Everton are a shambles. They go 1-0 down and spend the remainder of the game letting Spurs pass it around the defence with no pressure. Lampard has to be the worst manager in the league and the most negative. So much scar tissue from his time at Chelsea when he played the opposite way.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 16, 2022)

Dear Sky,

If you have Aston Villa v Chelsea as your game, any chance of some Aston Villa or Chelsea interviews rather that VvD and Jamie Redkrapp talking about Haaland?  You've got a programme for that later.

Thanks.


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## Slime (Oct 16, 2022)

Pathetic dive, absolutely pathetic ...................................... but he conned the ref!


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## fundy (Oct 16, 2022)

Any chance someone could get Leeds to pay their leccy bill so that we can get the game going plse


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## fundy (Oct 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			Any chance someone could get Leeds to pay their leccy bill so that we can get the game going plse
		
Click to expand...


thanks whoever put 50p in the meter


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## Slime (Oct 16, 2022)

Surely a penalty!


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## Slime (Oct 16, 2022)




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## Swango1980 (Oct 16, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 44840

Click to expand...

Not watching it, but everyone on Soccer Sunday are shocked a pen wasn't given for a foul on Sancho


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## Slime (Oct 16, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Not watching it, but everyone on Soccer Sunday are shocked a pen wasn't given for a foul on Sancho
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, me too. 


And now the stream has gone down!


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## Swango1980 (Oct 16, 2022)

Not sure how Villa are losing. Well, I am. Been all over Chelsea, but failed to play the killer ball, or if they do, Chelsea keeper having a worldy.

Then Mings gifts Mount first goal, and then Martinez watches a free kick go into the middle of his goal. Apart from Sterling hitting crossbar (and just now knocking header wide, as I type this), Chelsea not really threatened


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## hairball_89 (Oct 16, 2022)

Milner at right back. Phillips the only centre back on the bench...

I see City are looking forward to a glorious afternoon at Anfield!


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## Slime (Oct 16, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Milner at right back. Phillips the only centre back on the bench...

I see City are looking forward to a glorious afternoon at Anfield!
		
Click to expand...

I hope so.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 16, 2022)

Slime said:



			I hope so. 

Click to expand...

Jurgen knows far more about football than I ever will. But we've actually looked good, and almost stable, with the 4-2-3-1 recently. the team looks built for it. We've looked awful numerous times this season playing 4-3-3. Surely, when we're going to get beaten anyway, do it in the way that gets the best out of the players who are left? And that's 4-2-3-1.


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## Slime (Oct 16, 2022)

Oh, how United need a striker!


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## fundy (Oct 16, 2022)

Sounds like a rather fortuitous 3 points for Arsenal today, we'll take it


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## Dando (Oct 16, 2022)

I see Foden has learnt how back into a player and win a free kick from Kane


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## hairball_89 (Oct 16, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Jurgen knows far more about football than I ever will. But we've actually looked good, and almost stable, with the 4-2-3-1 recently. the team looks built for it. We've looked awful numerous times this season playing 4-3-3. Surely, when we're going to get beaten anyway, do it in the way that gets the best out of the players who are left? And that's 4-2-3-1.
		
Click to expand...

So Jurgen knows more about football than I ever will. and I was right. at the same time? Who knows.

What a half of football. both teams brilliant.


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## Dando (Oct 16, 2022)

Pep will now spend a billion on more centre backs


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## fundy (Oct 16, 2022)

Taylor losing the plot surprise surprise but why stop the game when City are attacking to send Klopp off???


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## Dando (Oct 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			Taylor losing the plot surprise surprise but why stop the game when City are attacking to send Klopp off???
		
Click to expand...

He should’ve blown up for the foul on salah


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 16, 2022)

Selfish from Nunez. 3 on 1 and should've put the game to bed by playing in Salah but took the selfish option.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 16, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Selfish from Nunez. 3 on 1 and should've put the game to bed by playing in Salah but took the selfish option.
		
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Don't think it was selfish, just awful awareness


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2022)

Cancelo has been off the pace and the difference between the two sides today


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## Tashyboy (Oct 16, 2022)

Good game for the neutrals.


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2022)

I may be on my own here, but I thought the ref has been good today. Kept the flow going made it a decent watch.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 16, 2022)

Piece said:



			I may be on my own here, but I thought the ref has been good today. Kept the flow going made it a decent watch.
		
Click to expand...

Nope totally agree with you.👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2022)

Piece said:



			I may be on my own here, but I thought the ref has been good today. Kept the flow going made it a decent watch.
		
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He was shocking in the last 10 mins - staggeringly bad -nearly as bad as Tyler was 

Mo showing he is still there up with the best


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He was shocking in the last 10 mins - staggeringly bad -nearly as bad as Tyler was

Mo showing he is still there up with the best
		
Click to expand...

Errr why?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 16, 2022)

As pretty much a neutral that was one cracking match…


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2022)

Piece said:



			Errr why?
		
Click to expand...

Did you see the two fouls on Salah - blatent 

Then KDB late on Carvahlo after the ball gone right under his nose - that’s after missing a blatent earlier foul on Salah - he is poor.


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did you see the two fouls on Salah - blatent

Then KDB late on Carvahlo after the ball gone right under his nose - that’s after missing a blatent earlier foul on Salah - he is poor.
		
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Did you see the foul on Silva by Salah before Silva on Salah? 50-50. Just get on with it.

The one where Carvalho rolled around then got told to get up and was fine? Both sides left bits in all game, but good to see the ref playing on and made it a better watch.

As a neutral, ref was fine. This isn't a non contact sport and it was a better game than it should have been.


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2022)

Oh and well done VAR for that correct decision 👏


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## Swango1980 (Oct 16, 2022)

Ref was fine. Maybe he missed one or 2, but bound to happen when there are many decisions to be made. It was Klopp that was an embarrassment.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Oct 16, 2022)

Was Haaland on the bench?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2022)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			Was Haaland on the bench?

Click to expand...

In the pocket of Englands best Centre Back 😁😆😉


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## Baldy Bouncer (Oct 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In the pocket of Englands best Centre Back 😁😆😉
		
Click to expand...


Cheers, wasn't sure.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 16, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581306091702747136
I’ve seen it,so you are seeing it 😬😂😂


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 16, 2022)

Going back to City’s “ Goal”.
Haaland was penalised no problem.
Not referring to this game but in general when a team are defending a corner there is usually a similar amount of shirt pulling. Why is it not a penalty on the basis that a foul is a foul is a foul?


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581703733406502913


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## BrianM (Oct 16, 2022)

I’ve just read that Virgil Van Dijk has never lost a premier league game at home, that is some record 😳


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 16, 2022)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			Was Haaland on the bench?

Click to expand...

Haarland  is only as good as the service to him.
That service wasn’t there today. KDB was really poor imo
But the back four were really good today ( Milner for England RB )
Going forward we should have scored more .

Thought the ref was trying to let the game flow but there are times when you just can’t.
The foul on Mo was a joke.
But if you are going to let play flow with tough challenges you then have to make sure the team with the ball has an advantage, if your on your own with three defenders you should get the foul.
Great game though.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 16, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Going back to City’s “ Goal”.
Haaland was penalised no problem.
Not referring to this game but in general when a team are defending a corner there is usually a similar amount of shirt pulling. Why is it not a penalty on the basis that a foul is a foul is a foul?
		
Click to expand...

The same reason it’s not handball unless you score.
The rules are a mess.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2022)

Disgusting chants about Hillsborough again 

Never understand why small minded pond life think it’s ok to chant it 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581714820918923267
Also hope that the talk of coins thrown at Pep isn’t true - that disgraceful if it is 

One day football crowds will grow up


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## Slime (Oct 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Disgusting chants about Hillsborough again
Also hope that the talk of coins thrown at Pep isn’t true - that disgraceful if it is
*One day football crowds will grow up*

Click to expand...

No Phil, unfortunately, they won't.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2022)

Piece said:



			Did you see the foul on Silva by Salah before Silva on Salah? 50-50. Just get on with it.

The one where Carvalho rolled around then got told to get up and was fine? Both sides left bits in all game, but good to see the ref playing on and made it a better watch.

As a neutral, ref was fine. This isn't a non contact sport and it was a better game than it should have been.
		
Click to expand...

Refs shouldn't be ignoring the laws of the game just to keep the flow of the game going for the nuetrals/tellyclappers.

There was many today for/against both teams where a foul shouldve been given and play was waved on.

Taylor was poor today.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 16, 2022)

Villa are garbage


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## Beezerk (Oct 16, 2022)

Can't believe what I watched earlier,  have Liverpool really become an "anti football" 11 men behind the ball team? The very type of team Liverpool fans were bemoaning all last season. 🤯


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Refs shouldn't be ignoring the laws of the game just to keep the flow of the game going for the nuetrals/tellyclappers.

There was many today for/against both teams where a foul shouldve been given and play was waved on.

*Taylor was poor today.*

Click to expand...

You didn't need to bother with today in that sentence.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Disgusting chants about Hillsborough again

Never understand why small minded pond life think it’s ok to chant it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581714820918923267
Also hope that the talk of coins thrown at Pep isn’t true - that disgraceful if it is

One day football crowds will grow up
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately as it appears the vast majority of people who attend Premier League football matches are knuckle dragging neanderthals. Nothing will change.


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## Piece (Oct 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Refs shouldn't be ignoring the laws of the game just to keep the flow of the game going for the nuetrals/tellyclappers.

There was many today for/against both teams where a foul shouldve been given and play was waved on.

Taylor was poor today.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough but I'd argue by keeping the game flowing helped Liverpool's style more than City's.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2022)

I suspect most neutrals, including pundits watching the game, thoroughly enjoyed the game being allowed to flow. No ref will get all decisions right, certainly not when a game is played at that pace, with players that gifted with close control and who will frankly cheat if they get the opportunity to win a foul. I'd rather reffing like that than constant whistles and fouls. Taylor got most things right, if the players and teams are unhappy about the odd decision then they need to look at themselves as much as the ref.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2022)

Piece said:



			Fair enough but I'd argue by keeping the game flowing helped Liverpool's style more than City's.
		
Click to expand...

I'm all for keeping the game flowing and not blowing up every 30 secs like the refs used to after any sort of contact. 

I do expect a professional Ref to follow the Laws of The Game and give fouls when they're due though. 

He played advantage on seperate occassions yesterday where the was none and both teams lost possession.

This season we have seen a lot less feigning injury and play not stopping for very little contact and that has been refreshing but fouls are still happening and are being allowed to play on, just like the Haaland/Fabinho one.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



*I suspect most neutrals, including pundits watching the game*, thoroughly enjoyed the game being allowed to flow. No ref will get all decisions right, certainly not when a game is played at that pace, with players that gifted with close control and who will frankly cheat if they get the opportunity to win a foul. I'd rather reffing like that than constant whistles and fouls. Taylor got most things right, if the players and teams are unhappy about the odd decision then they need to look at themselves as much as the ref.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, but when Sky roll out Carragher and Redknapp for every Liverpool game, I don't think you can use neutral & pundit in the same sentence.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I suspect most neutrals, including pundits watching the game, thoroughly enjoyed the game being allowed to flow. No ref will get all decisions right, certainly not when a game is played at that pace, with players that gifted with close control and who will frankly cheat if they get the opportunity to win a foul. I'd rather reffing like that than constant whistles and fouls. *Taylor got most things right,* if the players and teams are unhappy about the odd decision then they need to look at themselves as much as the ref.
		
Click to expand...

Really?? 

Send me your email address and i'll give you the voucher for a free specsavers eye test i got from my last visit😁

I'm all for games to flow but when there's a foul, it has to be given. I've seen this in as many non Liverpool games  this season too.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Sorry, but when Sky roll out Carragher and Redknapp for every Liverpool game, I don't think you can use neutral & pundit in the same sentence. 

Click to expand...

That is a fair point


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			You didn't need to bother with today in that sentence.
		
Click to expand...

Haha i thought of you when i posted that last night🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Really??

Send me your email address and i'll give you the voucher for a free specsavers eye test i got from my last visit😁

I'm all for games to flow but when there's a foul, it has to be given. I've seen this in as many non Liverpool games  this season too.
		
Click to expand...

 I don't know what you mean 

I think the tricky part is when advantage is given but the team don't use it and lose the ball shortly after. That riles fans but unless football plays advantage in the way rugby does, ie for an age, that is part of what happens. perhaps that is the price to pay for letting the game flow more?

I'm not excusing bad decisions but he really did okay, as a neutral, yesterday.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



 I don't know what you mean 

I think the tricky part is when advantage is given but the team don't use it and lose the ball shortly after. That riles fans but unless football plays advantage in the way rugby does, ie for an age, that is part of what happens. perhaps that is the price to pay for letting the game flow more?

I'm not excusing bad decisions but he really did okay, as a neutral, yesterday.
		
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How many times have you seen advantage given, then brought back when actually there was no advantage? That happened to BOTH sides yesterday but hey ho at least the game flowed.

We shouldnt be seeing teams "paying a price"  for letting the game flow more. 

I said previously in this thread that refs have gone the other way to the extreme from blowing up for every slight touch to letting players wrestle each other. 

It wouldnt take much to rebalance it


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			How many times have you seen advantage given, then brought back when actually there was no advantage? That happened to BOTH sides yesterday but hey ho at least the game flowed.

We shouldnt be seeing teams "paying a price"  for letting the game flow more.

I said previously in this thread that refs have gone the other way to the extreme from blowing up for every slight touch to letting players wrestle each other.

It wouldnt take much to rebalance it
		
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And hopefully it will be re-balanced, it is a fine line. With the pace the game is played at, the way players try to con the refs constantly, I have sympathy for the refs.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			And hopefully it will be re-balanced, it is a fine line. With the pace the game is played at, *the way players try to con the refs constantly*, I have sympathy for the refs.
		
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Aye, it would be nice to see the England Captain be punished for doing it for once 😉

I have little sympathy for refs as i dont think they help themselves at times, like Taylor yesterday.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Aye, it would be nice to see the England Captain be punished for doing it for once 😉

I have little sympathy for refs as i dont think they help themselves at times, like Taylor yesterday.
		
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Harry? He is too pure to dive and cheat the ref .

He gets a free pass unfortunately.


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## Orikoru (Oct 17, 2022)

Please tell me you're not trying to claim Kane has dived again now.   This is definitely getting out of hand. Pickford wiped him out! People would have you believe Kane hasn't legitimately been fouled since 2014.


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## Orikoru (Oct 17, 2022)

Just gonna leave this here...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581572198229151744

The amount of criticism Kane gets is absolutely insane. If that's not a stonewall penalty I don't know what is.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha i thought of you when i posted that last night🤣
		
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You don't know how concerning the thought of you thinking of me that late at night is...


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63281933

An interesting piece about ref abuse. A number of youth and amateur games were boycotted over the weekend due to ref abuse, there was some good stuff on the radio about it. It starts at the top, people copy.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63281933

An interesting piece about ref abuse. A number of youth and amateur games were boycotted over the weekend due to ref abuse, there was some good stuff on the radio about it. It starts at the top, people copy.
		
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years ago I did ref training, the abuse was awful. they said in training the FA want you to stamp out swearing in the game.. they think from the bottom up it will flow.. then the instructor turned round and said which we all know is rubbish.. you need someone like rooney sent off for it in a big game and then it will stop at all levels.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Not watching it, but everyone on Soccer Sunday are shocked a pen wasn't given for a foul on Sancho
		
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No doubt there was contact but maybe he shouldn't have thrown his legs up in the air like a girly ballerina?


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## BiMGuy (Oct 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63281933

An interesting piece about ref abuse. A number of youth and amateur games were boycotted over the weekend due to ref abuse, there was some good stuff on the radio about it. It starts at the top, people copy.
		
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It’s a big topic at the minute and something I have to deal with regularly on behalf of some young referees.

The only football I saw on TV this weekend was the last 10 minutes of Liverpool v Man City.

Personally, I would like to see Klop made an example of with a heavy punishment for his reaction that led to his sending off.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 17, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			It’s a big topic at the minute and something I have to deal with regularly on behalf of some young referees.

The only football I saw on TV this weekend was the last 10 minutes of Liverpool v Man City.

Personally, I would like to see Klop made an example of with a heavy punishment for his reaction that led to his sending off.
		
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I read the article on the BBC last week.

I feel it is ironic that a report comes out and says The Merseyside Youth Football League had cancelled all its fixtures for the weekend in protest at "multiple incidents of inappropriate and threatening behaviour" towards officials. Then, that weekend Klopp gets a red card for abusing a referee.

I've grown tired of Klopp, and starting to think he is a bit of a disgrace. He is all smiley and charismatic when his team do well, but an absolute whinge (more than the usual I've come to expect) when he isn't.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63281933

An interesting piece about ref abuse. A number of youth and amateur games were boycotted over the weekend due to ref abuse, there was some good stuff on the radio about it. It starts at the top, people copy.
		
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That guy who got assaulted up North I believe when I heard what had happened I was shocked.
He sounded so genuine and had a passion for the game.
I coach U16 boys and we hardly get a qualified ref for our games.
The rare time we get one( this week) he doesn’t turn up.
It’s a sad state of affairs tbh.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 17, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			No doubt there was contact but maybe he shouldn't have thrown his legs up in the air like a girly ballerina?
		
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Absolutely over reacted.
However he was caught and it was a penalty.
Var looked at it and decided he wanted to be the centre of attention and got it completely wrong.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 17, 2022)

After watching the game you have to hand it to Liverpool.
After some very abject performances they certainly turned it around quick.
The game itself probably a draw would have been a fair result.
However the real Liverpool turned up and I thought Salah put in his best performance for over 5 years 😀
Certainly looked better when going through the middle.
One thing I did see once again is the world class Phil Foden.
His touch,balance and awareness is top drawer.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 17, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			After watching the game you have to hand it to Liverpool.
After some very abject performances they certainly turned it around quick.
The game itself probably a draw would have been a fair result.
However the real Liverpool turned up and I thought Salah put in his best performance for over 5 years 😀
Certainly looked better when going through the middle.
One thing I did see once again is the world class Phil Foden.
His touch,balance and awareness is top drawer.
		
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Yes, Foden is quality. Few messages going back and forth on one of my whatsapp groups during the game, and one comment from a mate is "Foden is literally pure silk"

I think he has a good chance of making a few appearances off the bench in the World Cup. Southgate might even bring him off the bench in the 119th minute to take a penalty.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, Foden is quality. Few messages going back and forth on one of my whatsapp groups during the game, and one comment from a mate is "Foden is literally pure silk"

I think he has a good chance of making a few appearances off the bench in the World Cup. Southgate might even bring him off the bench in the 119th minute to take a penalty.
		
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I have to agree, Foden for city is absolutely incredible.

He wasn't as good for England last summer as he is at city every week, I think mostly down to the team and system around him, but I am very excited to see Foden another 18 months on at a major tournament.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Sorry, but when Sky roll out Carragher and Redknapp for every Liverpool game, I don't think you can use neutral & pundit in the same sentence. 

Click to expand...

Yes but City had Micha Richards and Gary Neville in their corner


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## theoneandonly (Oct 17, 2022)

The midweek fixtures are on Amazon.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 17, 2022)

Any Leicester City fans in here?

I'd be interested to know what is going on with Vardy? Not fully fit, too old, not good enough or fall out with manager?

I picked him in my Draft fantasy football team. If I drop him, I'll only have left over strikers to choose from, who no one else has. That is fair enough, as there should be plenty available picking up more points than Vardy. Problem is, if I do that then undoubtedly Vardy will probably start playing every game, and go on an all time record scoring spree.

So, is Vardy done, or do Leicester fans think he'll get a run in the starting line up anytime soon?


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## pauljames87 (Oct 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Any Leicester City fans in here?

I'd be interested to know what is going on with Vardy? Not fully fit, too old, not good enough or fall out with manager?

I picked him in my Draft fantasy football team. If I drop him, I'll only have left over strikers to choose from, who no one else has. That is fair enough, as there should be plenty available picking up more points than Vardy. Problem is, if I do that then undoubtedly Vardy will probably start playing every game, and go on an all time record scoring spree.

So, is Vardy done, or do Leicester fans think he'll get a run in the starting line up anytime soon?
		
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Prob struggling to keep up with the self inflicted storm his idiot wife has landed at their door.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Prob struggling to keep up with the self inflicted storm his idiot wife has landed at their door.
		
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Yes losing 1.5 mil would upset me as well.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 18, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			After watching the game you have to hand it to Liverpool.
After some very abject performances they certainly turned it around quick.
The game itself probably a draw would have been a fair result.
However the real Liverpool turned up and I thought Salah put in his best performance for over 5 years 😀
Certainly looked better when going through the middle.
One thing I did see once again is the world class Phil Foden.
His touch,balance and awareness is top drawer.
		
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Cole palmer could be as good as Foden. 👍


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## Golfmmad (Oct 18, 2022)

Anybody watching the game at Brighton on Amazon Prime, how do you get rid of the caption at bottom left of screen? 
Audio and languages.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 18, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Anybody watching the game at Brighton on Amazon Prime, how do you get rid of the caption at bottom left of screen? 
Audio and languages.
		
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I don't get that caption, so mine must be automatically turned off. Therefore, no idea how to get rid if it was there. Just mess about with your controller, I'm sure you'll find the setting eventually.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Anybody watching the game at Brighton on Amazon Prime, how do you get rid of the caption at bottom left of screen?
Audio and languages.
		
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dont have it here, but if you drop and drag it into Sanchez box it wont be interfering


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## AmandaJR (Oct 18, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Anybody watching the game at Brighton on Amazon Prime, how do you get rid of the caption at bottom left of screen?
Audio and languages.
		
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It appeared when we first turned on but then disappeared. Perhaps try pressing the return or enter button on the remote?


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## Golfmmad (Oct 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't get that caption, so mine must be automatically turned off. Therefore, no idea how to get rid if it was there. Just mess about with your controller, I'm sure you'll find the setting eventually.
		
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Sorted thanks! 👍


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## Golfmmad (Oct 18, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			It appeared when we first turned on but then disappeared. Perhaps try pressing the return or enter button on the remote?
		
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I came out and went back in and ignored and it suddenly disappeared! 
It was really annoying as it darkened the bottom of the screen.


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2022)

add Forest to the time wasting sides  I get they are desperate for the point but that was grim to watch


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## RichA (Oct 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			add Forest to the time wasting sides  I get they are desperate for the point but that was grim to watch
		
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We've been doing it for a while now. It really does my head in.


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## Swingalot (Oct 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes losing 1.5 mil would upset me as well.
		
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double that and add some. Their legal costs would have been huge!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2022)

Looks like Man City don’t like losing - now accusations towards Klopp of him being Xenophobic and racist as well as inciting the crowds. Guess they never watching their own manager then


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like Man City don’t like losing - now accusations towards Klopp of him being Xenophobic and racist as well as inciting the crowds. Guess they never watching their own manager then
		
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Who likes losing? 

However, your post suggests Man City have accused him of being xenophobic? In fairness, I have only read the BBC report. But, all it says were than senior Man City officials were unhappy with his comments. A journalist has obviously asked him if his comments were "borderline xenophobic", but I can't read anything that says Man City said this, and the journalist was simply repeating this accusation?

I suspect had Pep been sent off, and City fans had thrown objects at Klopp, you'd have been all over that  . I'm sure nobody seriously thinks Klopp is xenophobic, and it is just the sort of rubbish that makes headlines for the media. He has become a bit of a prat though, in my opinion at least.


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## Paperboy (Oct 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who likes losing?

However, your post suggests Man City have accused him of being xenophobic? In fairness, I have only read the BBC report. But, all it says were than senior Man City officials were unhappy with his comments. A journalist has obviously asked him if his comments were "borderline xenophobic", but I can't read anything that says Man City said this, and the journalist was simply repeating this accusation?

*I suspect had Pep been sent off, and City fans had thrown objects at Klopp, you'd have been all over that*  . I'm sure nobody seriously thinks Klopp is xenophobic, and it is just the sort of rubbish that makes headlines for the media. He has become a bit of a prat though, in my opinion at least.
		
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To be fair to Phil, he called out the fans for this earlier in this thread somewhere.  I don't always agree with Phil on what he posts, but think the bold part is a little unfair.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who likes losing?

However, your post suggests Man City have accused him of being xenophobic? In fairness, I have only read the BBC report. But, all it says were than senior Man City officials were unhappy with his comments. A journalist has obviously asked him if his comments were "borderline xenophobic", but I can't read anything that says Man City said this, and the journalist was simply repeating this accusation?

I suspect had Pep been sent off, and City fans had thrown objects at Klopp, you'd have been all over that  . I'm sure nobody seriously thinks Klopp is xenophobic, and it is just the sort of rubbish that makes headlines for the media. He has become a bit of a prat though, in my opinion at least.
		
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Maybe worth having a read back through what I posted about the actions that day 

Also so far Liverpool have condemned any action made by the fans and looking to ban anyone caught 

Man City it seems don’t appear to want to condemn the actions of their fans that day 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ists-NO-xenophobe-Manchester-Citys-claim.html

“
Liverpool have been exploring all legal avenues since Monday after an anonymous briefing from City alleged that Klopp saying his side could not compete with the champions’ spending had heightened tensions before the game.

City doubled down on their stance after the 1-0 loss at Anfield and put out the message that Klopp’s assertion ‘there are three clubs in world football who can do what they like financially’ — believed to be City, Paris Saint-Germain and Newcastle — was prejudiced.”


I’m sure City at some stage will stop trying to point the finger of full blame at others and look at the actions of their owns fan for once and also their own managers antics on the sideline


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## Beezerk (Oct 19, 2022)

I think Eddie Howe has it about right on this subject 👌


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			add Forest to the time wasting sides  I get they are desperate for the point but that was grim to watch
		
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RichA said:



			We've been doing it for a while now. It really does my head in.
		
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What was this in relation to? I was watching the game last night but had to multi-task putting the lad to bed, so was dipping in and out.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Paperboy said:



			To be fair to Phil, he called out the fans for this earlier in this thread somewhere.  I don't always agree with Phil on what he posts, but think the bold part is a little unfair.
		
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I'm not sure, as I did use the "all over that" at the end to indicate he would have made a much bigger deal of it, in my opinion. If some Liverpool fans were throwing objects at people on the pitch, then it would be difficult to completely ignore it (when you are a person that has a view on everything else). So, it is easy enough to put out a generic comment to say it was wrong.

If City officials came out and made a big deal about this xenophobia accusation, then fair enough, it becomes a talking point. But, it seems like a non-story at this point, and xenophobia is a buzz word that has been picked up because of how a journalist asked the question. Even if the term xenophobia was anomalously made by a high ranking official within Man City, it still does not indicate that this is what "Man City" as a club believe. It would simply be down to a poorly worded, misguided or off guard comment from an individual within the club.

Mind you, perhaps we will see the Liverpool Players all wear T-Shirts in support of Jurgen Klopp for their next fixture


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			What was this in relation to? I was watching the game last night but had to multi-task putting the lad to bed, so was dipping in and out.
		
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How long you got lol, take it in turns to be "injured", take forever on throws, goal kicks, substitutions etc delay Brighton restarting the game quickly, all completely unmanaged by the ref

Sadly it gets classed as "managing the game" these days


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## RichA (Oct 19, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			What was this in relation to? I was watching the game last night but had to multi-task putting the lad to bed, so was dipping in and out.
		
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I didn't see last night's match either. Only after it finished, thankfully, did I realise it had been shown on Amazon Prime.
I'm just referring to the same stuff as Fundy, which we've been doing excessively for a couple of years now. I know everyone does it, but it irritates me most when it's my own team and I think we're among the worst. Fortunately, I don't think there'll be too many matches this season when we're running down the clock to secure points.


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			How long you got lol, take it in turns to be "injured", take forever on throws, goal kicks, substitutions etc delay Brighton restarting the game quickly, all completely unmanaged by the ref

Sadly it gets classed as "managing the game" these days
		
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I didn't notice it too badly last night - I thought we'd got better since Samba left - he was the king of that; you'd have thrown your remote at the TV if he was between the sticks. 



RichA said:



			I didn't see last night's match either. Only after it finished, thankfully, did I realise it had been shown on Amazon Prime.
I'm just referring to the same stuff as Fundy, which we've been doing excessively for a couple of years now. I know everyone does it, but it irritates me most when it's my own team and I think we're among the worst. Fortunately, I don't think there'll be too many matches this season when we're running down the clock to secure points.
		
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It wasn't ugly, but 2 goals conceded (and only one from open play) in the last 3 games has to be a positive. We seem to have a much better shape defensively and everyone knows what they're doing, making us hard to score against. Seems like that's been the focus in training since the Leicester game, and the attacking tactics will follow - and in the meantime we just have to hope we nick a few chances. Not ideal, but short term, it's required. On the plus side, Wozza got a short run out last night, and Biancone FINALLY got a few minutes in his legs and looked half decent (first touch aside!) down the right with plenty of pace. Get him in the starting 11 on Saturday with Aurier on the left (if he can play there) and I think it might give us a chance defensively as well as a few options going forward. Mangala close to getting back to full fitness too as he had 65 minutes last night...hopefully the start of things settling down and building into a team that can get a few points!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I think Eddie Howe has it about right on this subject 👌
		
Click to expand...

The same Eddie Howe who is now in charge of a club that has unlimited funding and has started the spending spree but says there is a ceiling 

The same club who’s sporting though did declare there is no ceiling and the same club have broken their transfer record and also £240mil since they arrived ( without selling anyone )  🤔


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## HampshireHog (Oct 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m sure City at some stage will stop trying to point the finger of full blame at others and look at the actions of their owns fan for once and also their own managers antics on the sideline
		
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You’re being ironic?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2022)

HampshireHog said:



			You’re being ironic?
		
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Not at all 🤷‍♂️  

Have City condemned the actions of their fans yet ? Anything of the damage in the stadium they caused ? Anything about the chants from their fans ? 

And is Pep not also very animated on sideline and was he also not looking to wind up the ground as well 🤷‍♂️


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## Beezerk (Oct 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The same Eddie Howe who is now in charge of a club that has unlimited funding and has started the spending spree but says there is a ceiling 

The same club who’s sporting though did declare there is no ceiling and the same club have broken their transfer record and also £240mil since they arrived ( without selling anyone )  🤔
		
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You’re just sounding like a really bitter fan now who’s on a wild rant.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			You’re just sounding like a really bitter fan now who’s on a wild rant.
		
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No ranting and bitter about what ?

It’s all perfect example of what Klopp was saying last week - there are clubs that have a different operating model and can finance in different ways without having to worry about balancing books etc - he didn’t say anything that others have said before. We all know that FFP doesn’t work , and that UEFA can’t enforce the rules in the manner that some expect them to.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			I didn't notice it too badly last night - *I thought we'd got better since Samba left - he was the king of that; you'd have thrown your remote at the TV if he was between the sticks.*



It wasn't ugly, but 2 goals conceded (and only one from open play) in the last 3 games has to be a positive. We seem to have a much better shape defensively and everyone knows what they're doing, making us hard to score against. Seems like that's been the focus in training since the Leicester game, and the attacking tactics will follow - and in the meantime we just have to hope we nick a few chances. Not ideal, but short term, it's required. On the plus side, Wozza got a short run out last night, and Biancone FINALLY got a few minutes in his legs and looked half decent (first touch aside!) down the right with plenty of pace. Get him in the starting 11 on Saturday with Aurier on the left (if he can play there) and I think it might give us a chance defensively as well as a few options going forward. Mangala close to getting back to full fitness too as he had 65 minutes last night...hopefully the start of things settling down and building into a team that can get a few points!
		
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Nah he was utterly unsubtle and got himself booked plenty for it even in the championship, he was fine haha (ok if i hadnt backed him to be booked i was throwing the remote....)

The issue for me is if sides are going to do this it needs to be punished from the start and consistently as it really isnt good as a spectacle. Watching a ref point at his watch then add 1 minute on after 90 mins is utterly ridiculous and just ensures sides will continue to do it with icing on top. Dont get me wrong, most sides do it at some point (we certainly do) but its just another negative that has been allowed to creep into the game, with so called wily ex pros praising their new buzz phrase of "game management" second only to "earning" a penalty in annoying phrases currently

Edit: 17 yellows and 1 red over 3 championship seasons for Forest. Thats some effort for a keeper!!!!!


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not at all 🤷‍♂️ 

Have City condemned the actions of their fans yet ? Anything of the damage in the stadium they caused ? Anything about the chants from their fans ?

*And is Pep not also very animated on sideline and was he also not looking to wind up the ground as well* 🤷‍♂️
		
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Ahh, I must have missed it then when Pep got sent off for being abusive to the officials


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m sure City at some stage will stop trying to point the finger of full blame at others and look at the actions of their owns fan for once *and also their own managers antics on the sideline*

Click to expand...




HampshireHog said:



*You’re being ironic?*

Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



*Not at all *🤷‍♂️ 

Have City condemned the actions of their fans yet ? Anything of the damage in the stadium they caused ? Anything about the chants from their fans ?

And is Pep not also very animated on sideline and was he also not looking to wind up the ground as well 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

I take it you missed the bit about about the Merseyside junior leagues cancelling football because of abuse of match officials last weekend Phil; the same weekend that Klopp manages to get himself sent off for... abusing the match official?  The irony is off the scale.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...or-football-league-merseyside-cancel-25224016


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## Bdill93 (Oct 19, 2022)

Tbf I agree with Klopp.

City and PSG do not operate in the same world as everyone else financially. Mbappe, Messi and Haaland's contracts being close to 1m a week, benches with more talent than full premier league sides etc.. its monumental money.

City self sustain better than PSG though, they do recruit players young and flog for profits after a while. 

Newcastle aren't there yet - that'll be a slower build up.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 19, 2022)

Rumors that Wolves are triggering Michael Beales release clause at QPR to bring him in as their new manager.

This is embarrassing as a Villa fan. It was strongly rumored that Beale was the genius behind Gerrards success as a manager and that he led the majority of the sessions, stats obsessed etc - we lost him in summer and while we have rotted since, he's taken QPR up the table and already linked to a prem job...

About time we pull the trigger on the shambles that is Gerrard. He's not a top manager.


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## hairball_89 (Oct 19, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			...

About time we pull the trigger on the shambles that is Gerrard. He's not a top manager.
		
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As someone who grew up idolising him, and with more than 1 red shirt with "Gerrard 8" on the back, it's safe to say right now I have to agree wholeheartedly! Whatever it is atm that he's doing, it isn't working. Clearly, I would love him to be Liverpool manager one day, but only if he is good enough. if earns it. Currently, that looks a long way off!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I take it you missed the bit about about the Merseyside junior leagues cancelling football because of abuse of match officials last weekend Phil; the same weekend that Klopp manages to get himself sent off for... abusing the match official?  The irony is off the scale.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...or-football-league-merseyside-cancel-25224016

Click to expand...

Sorry I’m not sure the connection to Liverpool FC in regards the junior matches being cancelled ?

Is the club supposed to be responsible for that as well ?

Klopp himself stated clearly he was wrong and was rightly red carded but if fingers are going to be pointed at managers actions causing junior football to have issues blimey there are going to be a lot of fingers pointed all over the sport and at every single team and indeed players for their actions over the years


Swango1980 said:



			Ahh, I must have missed it then when Pep got sent off for being abusive to the officials
		
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Sorry I must have missed where it was said that Pep was sent off ?


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## Bdill93 (Oct 19, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			As someone who grew up idolising him, and with more than 1 red shirt with "Gerrard 8" on the back, it's safe to say right now I have to agree wholeheartedly! Whatever it is atm that he's doing, it isn't working. Clearly, I would love him to be Liverpool manager one day, but only if he is good enough. if earns it. Currently, that looks a long way off!
		
Click to expand...

I really hoped he would come in, raise the levels and lead us up the table. Taking Villa from 11th to around 7th/6th for a few seasons would justify his later move on to Liverpool - win for both parties really!

Instead what I'm seeing is the next Roy Keane - he just doesn't get why the players under his control aren't world class and scoring every week. Add to this the fact hes clearly got no plan B (not sure what plan A is tbf either) - on Sunday we had a brilliant forst half and were dominating despite going 1 down - at half time Potter made 2 changes, brought on Koulibaly and Azpilicueta (apologies for badly spelling their names) and we had nothing. He had no answer for the change in personnel - didn't make a sub until 70 mins by which time its too late. 


Blokes dog... and needs to go


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry I’m not sure the connection to Liverpool FC in regards the junior matches being cancelled ?

Is the club supposed to be responsible for that as well ?

Klopp himself stated clearly he was wrong and was rightly red carded but if figures aren’t going to be pointed at managers actions causing junior football to have issues blimey there are going to be a lot of fingers pointed all over the sport and at every single team and indeed players for their actions over the years


Sorry I must have missed where it was said that Pep was sent off ?
		
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Ahh, so you effectively saying the actions of both managers are the same if they show any animation on the touchline? The fact one was given a red card doesn't matter, same thing in your mind.

We always hope people in high positions can be positive role models. You'd think the manager of Liverpool FC could at least set a reasonable example, especially when terrible things were reported in your own back yard with grass roots football. If you cannot consider Klopps actions as an absolute disgrace, then sadly some parents will think the same thing. They'll call it an emotional game. They'll excuse their anger because it was shown a referee did, in fact, make an error. And they'll scream and shout at a referee, just like Klopp. Sadly, some will go beyond that, especially as they've no cameras on them. If high profile managers like Klopp could restrain themselves, and do a better job at articulating their frustrations, then perhaps that would at least set a useful example to some? I wonder if parents at grass roots rugby matches show their frustrations in a similar way?

Of course, I don't expect you to see anything wrong with that. I always get the impression you are quick to pass your strong judgement on any negative headlines at other clubs, but often do not give the same "objective" view if the same were to happen at Liverpool. Of course, I expect a bit of bias from most, but yours seems to be off the charts, in my opinion.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2022)

Nunez £85m
Van Dyk £76m
Alisson £56m
Keita £54m
Benteke £42
Fabinho £40m
Jota £40m
Salah £38m
Mane £37m
Firminho £37

Bless poor old Liverpool with their empty coffers, barely able to put a transfer together 

Somewhere out there, if you listen really hard, you will hear the world's tiniest violin playing


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Ahh, so you effectively saying the actions of both managers are the same if they show any animation on the touchline? The fact one was given a red card doesn't matter, same thing in your mind.
		
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When did anyone say they were the same thing 🤷‍♂️

The simple point is that Guardiola is no angel on the sideline and his animations on the sidelines have included screaming at officials and winding up fans - just because he didn’t get carded for it doesn’t mean he doesn’t do it




			We always hope people in high positions can be positive role models. You'd think the manager of Liverpool FC could at least set a reasonable example, especially when terrible things were reported in your own back yard with grass roots football. If you cannot consider Klopps actions as an absolute disgrace, then sadly some parents will think the same thing. They'll call it an emotional game. They'll excuse their anger because it was shown a referee did, in fact, make an error. And they'll scream and shout at a referee, just like Klopp. Sadly, some will go beyond that, especially as they've no cameras on them. If high profile managers like Klopp could restrain themselves, and do a better job at articulating their frustrations, then perhaps that would at least set a useful example to some? I wonder if parents at grass roots rugby matches show their frustrations in a similar way?
		
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When has anyone said that Klopp wasn’t it the wrong ?! The man himself said he was wrong and went over the top and was rightly sent off ?

Are just ignoring that point ?

Not one single person has said what Klopp did was right - he was sent off because he went over the top shouting at the officials and he has owned that , no one has made any excuses for that and he will rightly get a touch line ban




			Of course, I don't expect you to see anything wrong with that. I always get the impression you are quick to pass your strong judgement on any negative headlines at other clubs, but often do not give the same "objective" view if the same were to happen at Liverpool. Of course, I expect a bit of bias from most, but yours seems to be off the charts, in my opinion.
		
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i think what you clearly display is a pre judged conceived idea of what you think people are saying

Maybe if you try to actually read what’s being said instead of trying to impress people with lots of paragraphs


So I’ll make it simple for you

Klopp red carded rightly , he was wrong and he said as much

Liverpool as a club condemned the fans who have been reported to have thrown coins at Guardiola and have stated they will ban people if they are found

Man City have so far been silent about their fan behaviour instead focusing on what Klopp said on Friday

Hopefully that’s nice and clear for you


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nunez £85m
Van Dyk £76m
Alisson £56m
Keita £54m
Benteke £42
Fabinho £40m
Jota £40m
Salah £38m
Mane £37m
Firminho £37

Bless poor old Liverpool with their empty coffers, barely able to put a transfer together 

Somewhere out there, if you listen really hard, you will hear the world's tiniest violin playing 

Click to expand...

All bought using finances earned by the club through selling players or using commercial income - zero money from the pockets of any owners own bank account.

Imagine not understanding the difference between clubs that self finance and clubs that rely on the bank of owner - which was exactly the point that was being made


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did anyone say they were the same thing 🤷‍♂️

The simple point is that Guardiola is no angel on the sideline and his animations on the sidelines have included screaming at officials and winding up fans - just because he didn’t get carded for it doesn’t mean he doesn’t do it



When has anyone said that Klopp wasn’t it the wrong ?! The man himself said he was wrong and went over the top and was rightly sent off ?

Are just ignoring that point ?

Not one single person has said what Klopp did was right - he was sent off because he went over the top shouting at the officials and he has owned that , no one has made any excuses for that and he will rightly get a touch line ban


i think what you clearly display is a pre judged conceived idea of what you think people are saying

Maybe if you try to actually read what’s being said instead of trying to impress people with lots of paragraphs


So I’ll make it simple for you

Klopp red carded rightly , he was wrong and he said as much

Liverpool as a club condemned the fans who have been reported to have thrown coins at Guardiola and have stated they will ban people if they are found

Man City have so far been silent about their fan behaviour instead focusing on what Klopp said on Friday

Hopefully that’s nice and clear for you
		
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So, you are simply using classic deflection techniques. So, when people raise these points, rather than saying "yes, I agree with your point", you try and find a way of making other managers / players / clubs / fans looking just as bad?

So, if someone raises the point about the irony of Klopp being sent off when Merseyside Youth Football was protesting aggression towards officials, you say "Sorry I’m not sure the connection to Liverpool FC in regards the junior matches being cancelled ? " . Your blinkers do not allow you to see any connection, but then you accuse others of not reading your comments properly.

If Klopp's behaviour is condemned after his sending off, you will say he should have been sent off (because defending him on that would be a tough sell, even for you), but you will quickly try and throw Pep under the same bus because he gets animated. I don't think anyone minds if people get animated, so who cares? But, there is clearly a line, and it is apparent Klopp crossed it, Pepe did not at the weekend. So, best focus on your own manager, than trying to tarnish others. If the reverse happened, I'd be critical of Pep, and I'd defend Klopp if others tried to say he effectively did the same thing as Pep


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All bought using finances earned by the club through selling players or using commercial income - zero money from the pockets of any owners own bank account.

Imagine not understanding the difference between clubs that self finance and clubs that rely on the bank of owner - which was exactly the point that was being made
		
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To all other teams it doesn't matter a jot. If you want to feel morally superior about it then crack on but to every club who can't dream of competing with the fees and salaries Liverpool pay out it is simply laughable that Liverpool are whining about a bigger kid in the play ground.


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## HampshireHog (Oct 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not at all 🤷‍♂️

Have City condemned the actions of their fans yet ? Anything of the damage in the stadium they caused ? Anything about the chants from their fans ?

And is Pep not also very animated on sideline and was he also not looking to wind up the ground as well 🤷‍♂️
		
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Not that any of that had to do with the irony of your statement.  It’s not two wrongs make a right.

Frankly, if my teams manager had been sent off and my teams fans had been hurling coins I‘d be winding my neck in, rather than giving it the big self-righteous “Why oh, Why can‘t teams control their fans and mangers?”

#LoveToTheFamily


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not at all 🤷‍♂️ 

Have City condemned the actions of their fans yet ? *Anything of the damage in the stadium they caused ?* Anything about the chants from their fans ?

And is Pep not also very animated on sideline and was he also not looking to wind up the ground as well 🤷‍♂️
		
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I wonder if this will be balanced by the damage to the Man City team bus as they left the ground (assuming it was done by Liverpool fans of course)? Perhaps they can just call it evens, although I'm not sure why City don't use armour plated buses with bullet proof glass when travelling to Anfield


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To all other teams it doesn't matter a jot. If you want to feel morally superior about it then crack on but to every club who can't dream of competing with the fees and salaries Liverpool pay out it is simply laughable that Liverpool are whining about a bigger kid in the play ground.
		
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Missing the point massively but it’s expected


No one said anything about feeling morally superior

Klopp was asked what clubs have to do to catch and keep up with City and he said it clear as day - other clubs have to be near perfect with their buys and spending because every club bar a couple have a ceiling when it comes to spending

Most clubs when they buy a player they need them to work out they can’t afford to have players who fail because there isn’t a pit of money behind to just dip in again

City and some other clubs don’t have that issue - if a CB doesn’t work out , that’s ok just buy another one , same with any player , it doesn’t matter to them that they spent £100mil on Grealish for him then to spend most of the time sat on the bench and not given the impact paid for

But it’s not surprising that opposition fans just see it a crying about spending and that’s exactly what Klopp also said. Every single club bar a couple have a spending ceiling - it’s not unlimited - that was the point he was making - City were the only club that can swallow up the true cost of Haaland and as it goes by each year the Prem will just become a stroll for them each season and we have a Prem like the Bundasliga 



HampshireHog said:



			Not that any of that had to do with the irony of your statement.  It’s not two wrongs make a right.

Frankly, if my teams manager had been sent off and my teams fans had been hurling coins I‘d be winding my neck in, rather than giving it the big self-righteous “Why oh, Why can‘t teams control their fans and mangers?”

#LoveToTheFamily
		
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Missing the point - one clubs reaction was to own what happened, the others was to look to blame the other club.

And these are fans actions from City that aren’t one offs - it’s every game the same vile stuff chanted from them and total silence from club and fans 🤷‍♂️

But as I said In a post earlier - one day I hope football fans will grow up and not
resort to throwing coins , flares , and vile chants


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## HampshireHog (Oct 19, 2022)

Condemning something is not owning it, taking responsibility and taking action against the perpetrators is owning it.  That applies to all clubs.

It’s disingenuous to suggest that either club is owning or not owning it.  We all know the same behaviours by both sets of fans and managers will continue unchecked by either club. Will either manager be sanctioned by their club?  Of course not. 

Are Liverpool fans appalled by the sending off, no “it just passion”.  Like it or not he is role model and to not see any correlation between role model behaviour and grassroots is truly unbelievable.

When you spend your time deflecting and trying to justify or sweep these behaviors under the carpet by saying “they done it first“ or “they’re worse than us”, you are just symptomatic of the problem.

We all know that some fans can be arses and if you are a fan you know which games they will let themselves, the club and you down & you should hate them for it.  Most people would not try an propogate some some alternate narrative and try to paint them as having seized the moral high ground or being the victim.

You should be celebrating beating the one of the best sides in world football and moving into the top half off the league, which where you belong.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who likes losing?

However, your post suggests Man City have accused him of being xenophobic? In fairness, I have only read the BBC report. But, all it says were than senior Man City officials were unhappy with his comments. A journalist has obviously asked him if his comments were "borderline xenophobic", but I can't read anything that says Man City said this, and the journalist was simply repeating this accusation?

*I suspect had Pep been sent off, and City fans had thrown objects at Klopp*, you'd have been all over that  . I'm sure nobody seriously thinks Klopp is xenophobic, and it is just the sort of rubbish that makes headlines for the media. He has become a bit of a prat though, in my opinion at least.
		
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Re the Xenophobic comments, the City press have certainly been briefed from the City heirachy as there was a piece in the Times online with it in then an hour later it was removed from the same piece.

With the amount of CCTV around Anfield, Sky had numerous cameras and fans with their cameras out theres been no evidence of coins gettting thrown at Pep.

If it did happen then i'd expect Pep to have evidence of it happening, like the said coins.

If anyone has thrown anything at Pep or anyone else then i hope they're banned for life.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wonder if this will be balanced by the damage to the Man City team bus as they left the ground (assuming it was done by Liverpool fans of course)? Perhaps they can just call it evens, although I'm not sure why City don't use armour plated buses with bullet proof glass when travelling to Anfield 

Click to expand...

You obviously missed both LFC's official condemnation and Klopp's of the behaviour that evening.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nunez £85m
Van Dyk £76m
Alisson £56m
Keita £54m
Benteke £42
Fabinho £40m
Jota £40m
Salah £38m
Mane £37m
Firminho £37

Bless poor old Liverpool with their empty coffers, barely able to put a transfer together 

Somewhere out there, if you listen really hard, you will hear the world's tiniest violin playing 

Click to expand...

All bought with the Suarez money 🤷‍♂️😂😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Re the Xenophobic comments, the City press have certainly been briefed from the City heirachy as there was a piece in the Times online with it in then an hour later it was removed from the same piece.

With the amount of CCTV around Anfield, Sky had numerous cameras and fans with their cameras out theres been no evidence of coins gettting thrown at Pep.

If it did happen then i'd expect Pep to have evidence of it happening, like the said coins.

If anyone has thrown anything at Pep or amyone lese then i hope they're banned for life.
		
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Well, perhaps pep was making it up, or the camera's missed coins being thrown? I guess that is what investigations are for. I certainly saw a lot of things being thrown at City players when they scored the disallowed goal, so I imagine there are some fans that quite like doing that sort of thing.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			All bought with the Suarez money 🤷‍♂️😂😂😂
		
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So basically Liverpool are a feeder club to the big boys ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			All bought with the Suarez money 🤷‍♂️😂😂😂
		
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They stretched it out very well 😆


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, perhaps pep was making it up, or the camera's missed coins being thrown? I guess that is what investigations are for. I certainly saw a lot of things being thrown at City players when they scored the disallowed goal, so I imagine there are some fans that quite like doing that sort of thing.
		
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Yeah i seen 4 bottles of carlsberg being launched from the city end. I know this because i was there and seen it with my own eyes.

There's every possibility that nobody seen the coins being thrown. I'd expect to see the said coins that were thrown land in the vicinity of the pitch or the dugout. 

i would expect the staff on the bench to bring it to the attention of the 4th official.

Pep made the same accussations last year too. And for the 2nd year running he was trying to incite the fans behind him.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah i seen 4 bottles of carlsberg being launched from the city end. I know this because i was there and seen it with my own eyes.

There's every possibility that nobody seen the coins being thrown. I'd expect to see the said coins that were thrown land in the vicinity of the pitch or the dugout.

i would expect the staff on the bench to bring it to the attention of the 4th official.

Pep made the same accussations last year too. And for the 2nd year running he was trying to incite the fans behind him.
		
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Well, if this is investigated thoroughly, and it turns out no coins were thrown, then this should be revealed. If it then turns out that Pep was fabricating the truth, then he too should be called out for it. Absolutely. It is true that I am assuming coins were thrown, based on the information available. Obviously, there has been no denial it happened, and if there were no coins thrown, I'd like to think people on the Liverpool bench would come out and say this was not observed (maybe they have, but I haven't seen in on mainstream media). My current assumption is simply based on the fact that Pep would have too much to lose if it came out he was lying about such things, and when you see Liverpool fans throwing objects at City players, and smashing up their bus, it seems very plausible they'd throw coins at Pep.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, if this is investigated thoroughly, and it turns out no coins were thrown, then this should be revealed. If it then turns out that Pep was fabricating the truth, then he too should be called out for it. Absolutely. It is true that I am assuming coins were thrown, based on the information available. Obviously, there has been no denial it happened, and if there were no coins thrown, I'd like to think people on the Liverpool bench would come out and say this was not observed (maybe they have, but I haven't seen in on mainstream media). My current assumption is simply based on the fact that Pep would have too much to lose if it came out he was lying about such things, and when you see Liverpool fans throwing objects at City players, and smashing up their bus, it seems very plausible they'd throw coins at Pep.
		
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Coins/objects dont just disappear into thin air once they hit the ground. Especially with the amount of cameras around that stand in particular.

Lets hope the investigators are the same ones UEFA used for Citys FFP accounts.🤭🤭

To assume what goes on outside the ground goes on inside the ground is a tad dramatic.

Anyway that's enough from me, i'm goin the game to boo GSTK😉


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Coins/objects dont just disappear into thin air once they hit the ground. Especially with the amount of cameras around that stand in particular.

Lets hope the investigators are the same ones UEFA used for Citys FFP accounts.🤭🤭

To assume what goes on outside the ground goes on inside the ground is a tad dramatic.

Anyway that's enough from me, i'm goin the game to boo GSTK😉
		
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As I said, saw plenty of things being thrown at the City players. Pretty sure that was inside the ground.


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## Golfmmad (Oct 19, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			I didn't notice it too badly last night - I thought we'd got better since Samba left - he was the king of that; you'd have thrown your remote at the TV if he was between the sticks.



It wasn't ugly, but 2 goals conceded (and only one from open play) in the last 3 games has to be a positive. We seem to have a much better shape defensively and everyone knows what they're doing, making us hard to score against. Seems like that's been the focus in training since the Leicester game, and the attacking tactics will follow - and in the meantime we just have to hope we nick a few chances. Not ideal, but short term, it's required. On the plus side, Wozza got a short run out last night, and Biancone FINALLY got a few minutes in his legs and looked half decent (first touch aside!) down the right with plenty of pace. Get him in the starting 11 on Saturday with Aurier on the left (if he can play there) and I think it might give us a chance defensively as well as a few options going forward. Mangala close to getting back to full fitness too as he had 65 minutes last night...hopefully the start of things settling down and building into a team that can get a few points!
		
Click to expand...

If ever the term, "Parking the bus" was more apt, it was in last nights game. Especially the first half.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2022)

Shame paquata is injured tonight but what a game for downes to make his premier League first start

West ham fan, good experience in the championship, soucek and rice along side him

Good luck

Great bit of insight from McManaman .. rice doesn't score many goals but when he does they end up in the back of the net lol


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## DanFST (Oct 19, 2022)

Love coming back on before we play Liverpool. Really enjoyed the 20 minutes on how good Liverpool are. 

I'd love to beat them.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Love coming back on before we play Liverpool. Really enjoyed the 20 minutes on how good Liverpool are.

I'd love to beat them.
		
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Would be a big big ask especially without paquata but would be lovely


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 19, 2022)

So if that was looked at, and not a penalty, why not a booking for the dive?


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## DanFST (Oct 19, 2022)

That really didn't need to take that long. Silly defending


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2022)

Ok VAR get involved and that is a pen .. 100%

However ... How on earth did the ref miss that? It was high, wreckless and didn't get any of the ball 

The standard of officials is terrible 

Good save Allison


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## Fade and Die (Oct 19, 2022)

Don’t help ourselves do we 🤦🏻‍♂️


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## Dando (Oct 19, 2022)

Shocking penalty from Bowen


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Don’t help ourselves do we 🤦🏻‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Annoys me we have to go behind to get going


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## hairball_89 (Oct 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Ok VAR get involved and that is a pen .. 100%

However ... How on earth did the ref miss that? It was high, wreckless and didn't get any of the ball

The standard of officials is terrible

Good save Allison
		
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Always a pen. No idea how it wasn't given on field and then took about a month for VAR to decide?! Madness. It's so clear the problem isn't var but the people running it. 

Cracking save from Ali. Nunez looks up for it. Great header and could have had another. 

Don't expect West Ham to be as poor second half, reds definitely need another.


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## DanFST (Oct 19, 2022)

Dando said:



			Shocking penalty from Bowen
		
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Could have been firmer, but it's a hell of save, full stretch!


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## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Always a pen. No idea how it wasn't given on field and then took about a month for VAR to decide?! Madness. It's so clear the problem isn't var but the people running it.

Cracking save from Ali. Nunez looks up for it. Great header and could have had another.

Don't expect West Ham to be as poor second half, reds definitely need another.
		
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Could be a great second half if we continue the way we finished


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Ok VAR get involved and that is a pen .. 100%

However ... How on earth did the ref miss that? It was high, wreckless and didn't get any of the ball 

The standard of officials is terrible 

Good save Allison
		
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I suspect VAR has had a direct impact on on field decisions.

Pre VAR, the ref had to make a decision based on their instinct (when not 100% sure, but maybe 60, 70% sure). In this case, his instinct may well have told him penalty.

With VAR now, I suspect quite a few on field refs take the easy decision, and do nothing, and assume VAR will make the big decision if necessary.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 19, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Could have been firmer, but it's a hell of save, full stretch!
		
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Good save but you have to put your foot through the bloody thing!


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2022)

United getting closer and closer.


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2022)

I can't ever remember seeing Rashford challenge an opponent for a header, he just bottles out the whole time.


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## adam6177 (Oct 19, 2022)

Slime said:



			United getting closer and closer.
		
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To relegation? 🤞🤞 😉


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Slime said:



			I can't ever remember seeing Rashford challenge an opponent for a header, he just bottles out the whole time.
		
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Agreed. He is good at a half hearted jump, to make it look like he is trying. Well, actually, not that good at it as he fools no one.

Lloris having a worldy here. As such, expect Spurs to score 1st


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## Fade and Die (Oct 19, 2022)

Thought Klippety would have been in the stands tonight after his Red card at the weekend?


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2022)

If ever we needed proof that United need a striker, tonight's game is it!



As was the Newcastle game ............................................... oh, and the Omonia Nicosea game!!!!!


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Slime said:



			If ever we needed proof that United need a striker, tonight's game is it!



As was the Newcastle game ............................................... oh, and the Omonia Nicosea game!!!!!
		
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Credit to him for trying, however my heart sinks when chances keep falling to Fred


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Credit to him for trying, however my heart sinks when chances keep falling to Fred
		
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You were saying?


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2022)




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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Slime said:



			You were saying?  

Click to expand...

So funny


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2022)

Tough game with a changed team - subs clearly had an eye on the weekend as well , some great saves and the tackle by Milner at the end was outstanding


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2022)

It's such a shame that Bruno has to go down so easily, he really would appear to be a real lightweight.


----------



## sunshine (Oct 19, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Rumors that Wolves are triggering Michael Beales release clause at QPR to bring him in as their new manager.

This is embarrassing as a Villa fan. It was strongly rumored that Beale was the genius behind Gerrards success as a manager and that he led the majority of the sessions, stats obsessed etc - we lost him in summer and while we have rotted since, he's taken QPR up the table and already linked to a prem job...

About time we pull the trigger on the shambles that is Gerrard. He's not a top manager.
		
Click to expand...

The way it's being reported it's a done deal. I really hope Beale shows some integrity and turns it down. QPR have given him his break, I'd like to see him stay for a season at least, rather than walk out after 3 months.

Shocking journalism from the BBC though. They lead with: "Wolves have made QPR boss Michael Beale first choice to be their new manager." The article then goes on to list several other managers they have already approached who have turned them down. First choice


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2022)




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## BiMGuy (Oct 19, 2022)

Good finish for someone who was almost knocked unconscious a few minutes ago.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Slime said:



			It's such a shame that Bruno has to go down so easily, he really would appear to be a real lightweight.
		
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Haha, who else can we criticise before they score? Martinez is too small.......


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Haha, who else can we criticise before they score? Martinez is too small.......
		
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Yeah, and Antony is too one footed?


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 19, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			If ever the term, "Parking the bus" was more apt, it was in last nights game. Especially the first half.
		
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It is, unfortunately, where we are at and is by (necessary) design. After leaking so many goals in 3 games, it’s a case of finding our game defensively before trying to become prolific goal scorers. A case of not running before you can walk.


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## backwoodsman (Oct 19, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			If ever the term, "Parking the bus" was more apt, it was in last nights game. Especially the first half.
		
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Second half maybe (but see Aztec's comments). But in the first half, I doubt we even knew we had a bus.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2022)

Wonder if Contes thinks hes a bit top heavy and will leave one of Kane and Son out next week lol


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2022)

Great result and, more importantly, a fantastic performance from all the players.
Possibly United's best performance of the season.
I'd give Fred the Man of the Match .............................. and I never thought I'd EVER say that!


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## Swango1980 (Oct 19, 2022)

Definitely the best I've seen Utd play in a long long time. Casemiro starting to look settled, and Martinez and Varane look class. 

Dalot and Fred surprisingly starting to impress me, despite my questioning of Fred's finishing. Bruno looked far less wasteful tonight, looked to keep possession more than always play the killer pass. Great goal.

I'm sure the big story will be Ronaldo leaving the bench and going down the tunnel 5 minutes before end of game. If Ten Hag never intended in having him as an integral part of the team, fair enough, he is the boss. But if so, I wish they'd let Ronaldo leave last summer.


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Definitely the best I've seen Utd play in a long long time. Casemiro starting to look settled, and Martinez and Varane look class.

Dalot and Fred surprisingly starting to impress me, despite my questioning of Fred's finishing. Bruno looked far less wasteful tonight, looked to keep possession more than always play the killer pass. Great goal.

I'm sure the big story will be Ronaldo leaving the bench and going down the tunnel 5 minutes before end of game. If Ten Hag never intended in having him as an integral part of the team, fair enough, he is the boss. But if so, I wish they'd let Ronaldo leave last summer.
		
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If that's his attitude, he can go tonight!
However, perhaps he just needed a dump and is suffering with constipation?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nunez £85m
Van Dyk £76m
Alisson £56m
Keita £54m
Benteke £42
Fabinho £40m
Jota £40m
Salah £38m
Mane £37m
Firminho £37

Bless poor old Liverpool with their empty coffers, barely able to put a transfer together 

Somewhere out there, if you listen really hard, you will hear the world's tiniest violin playing 

Click to expand...

Here we go, someone else who hasnt a clue and despite the amount of times it gets said, you still convenirntly overlook the obvious.

I wont go into 5 paragraphs, but look who has spent more money than us over the last 5 years and also the nett spend which is key  - but apparently so hard to ignore for some god knows why reason..


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## Junior (Oct 20, 2022)

Best Utd performance of the season last night against a strong and well organised Spurs team.  If Rashford looked up before he shoots we'd have had a couple more.  That said the whole team were great and full of energy.  Dalot and Bruno in particular were excellent. I was surprised Conte left it so long to make changes.  

The atmosphere in the stadium was amazing.  When the players put a shift in like that the crowd really gets going.  Fingers crossed for some consistency 🙏


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 20, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582816729285025792
🤷‍♂️😂


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## Beezerk (Oct 20, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582816729285025792
🤷‍♂️😂
		
Click to expand...

Stay classy 😬


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Here we go, someone else who hasnt a clue and despite the amount of times it gets said, you still convenirntly overlook the obvious.

I wont go into 5 paragraphs, but look who has spent more money than us over the last 5 years and also the nett spend which is key  - but apparently so hard to ignore for some god knows why reason..
		
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I don't care what liverpool spend, I don't care what any team spends. I care that my team have wasted millions but that's a parochial issue. Pretty much only liverpool care about this issue. Some spend more than others, it's always been that way. Keep going on this line but it's hollow to every other supporter out there.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2022)

Well that was a game of 60/30 last night, thought we controlled it for 60mins until Klopp made 3 unneccessary (imo) changes. Out of the 5 he made only 1 made sense. 

They unbalanced the team and we let West Ham into the game.

Still not back to our best but i'll take the last 2 performances/results given the start we've made.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't care what liverpool spend, I don't care what any team spends. I care that my team have wasted millions but that's a parochial issue. Pretty much only liverpool care about this issue. Some spend more than others, it's always been that way. Keep going on this line but it's hollow to every other supporter out there.
		
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I wouldn't worry about it. It appears those associated with Liverpool like to whinge about clubs with more money than them. More importantly, they absolutely must remind everyone that Liverpool FC make and spend money in the right and proper way, not like these clubs richer than them with super rich owners. I suppose this is to remind everyone that Liverpool FC is the biggest and best run club in the world.

They don't care about all those clubs poorer than them. They are just either poorly run, or have an inferior fan base. Deal with it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wouldn't worry about it. It appears those associated with Liverpool like to whinge about clubs with more money than them. More importantly, they absolutely must remind everyone that Liverpool FC make and spend money in the right and proper way, not like these clubs richer than them with super rich owners. I suppose this is to remind everyone that Liverpool FC is the biggest and best run club in the world.

They don't care about all those clubs poorer than them. They are just either poorly run, or have an inferior fan base. Deal with it. 

Click to expand...

Duly admonished 😆


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't care what liverpool spend, I don't care what any team spends. I care that my team have wasted millions but that's a parochial issue. Pretty much only liverpool care about this issue. Some spend more than others, it's always been that way. Keep going on this line but it's hollow to every other supporter out there.
		
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Arsenal, possibly Spurs fans not bothered about what has happened to Chelsea, City?

Keep fooling yourself.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Arsenal, possibly Spurs fans not bothered about what has happened to Chelsea, City?

Keep fooling yourself.
		
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It's been happening for years, there is nothing new here. Arsenal and Spurs have been out spent by the likes of Utd and Liverpool for a long time. The source of money is different with these clubs but the outcome is the same and that is all fans notice or really care about.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 20, 2022)

Liverbirdie said:



			Arsenal, possibly Spurs fans not bothered about what has happened to Chelsea, City?

Keep fooling yourself.
		
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They don’t bang on about it as much as Liverpool fans.
Honestly Net Spend,Net ,Spend,Net spend 🥱 🥱 🥱


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## DanFST (Oct 20, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582816729285025792
🤷‍♂️😂
		
Click to expand...

Loads of our lot are kicking off about that. If one of ours done it, we'd love it. 

Every competitive advantage. Incredibly unlucky to not get a point last night, but ahh well.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			They don’t bang on about it as much as Liverpool fans.
Honestly Net Spend,Net ,Spend,Net spend 🥱 🥱 🥱
		
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How ironic!
When it comes to banging on about Liverpool there can’t be anyone ahead of you! Even Phil.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583044778002124802


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## DanFST (Oct 20, 2022)

West ham charged with failing to control their players.

Southampton officiating was absolutely shocking. Ref in the way leading to their goal, and Perraud rugby tackling soucek. When will officials take responsibility or be charged themselves?

The people running it are absolutely useless.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583044778002124802

Click to expand...

If that doesn't get him into the England World Cup squad, I don't know what else will.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 20, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			How ironic!
When it comes to banging on about Liverpool there can’t be anyone ahead of you! Even Phil.

Click to expand...

It’s just the constant self petty 😉


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2022)

DanFST said:



			West ham charged with failing to control their players.

Southampton officiating was absolutely shocking. Ref in the way leading to their goal, and Perraud rugby tackling soucek. When will officials take responsibility or be charged themselves?

The people running it are absolutely useless.
		
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Yes .
I just can’t see how the ref can say he didn’t interfere there.
VAR could have cleared that up surely. As they look at the build up to goals.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			It’s just the constant self petty 😉
		
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You can be arrested for that in public.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2022)

DanFST said:



			Loads of our lot are kicking off about that. If one of ours done it, we'd love it.

Every competitive advantage. Incredibly unlucky to not get a point last night, but ahh well.
		
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I bet the groundsman isn’t to pleased.
When we work on football pitches it’s not the actual spot that’s the most important, a bit of scuffing isn’t a problem.
The biggest problem is where the player plants his standing foot.
It ruts with the force of players feet .
They get filled but one penalty and it’s a divot hole again.
WH played very well but you can’t miss penalties in the PL.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 20, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes .
I just can’t see how the ref can say he didn’t interfere there.
VAR could have cleared that up surely. As they look at the build up to goals.
		
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Because I believe the Rule only allows the referee to stop play if the ball touches them. After a bit of digging, I found:

"The ball is out of play when: 

it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline on the ground or in the air
play has been stopped by the referee
*it touches a match official, remains on the field of play and:*
a team starts a promising attack or
the ball goes directly into the goal or
the team in possession of the ball changes

      In all these cases, play is restarted with a dropped ball.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 20, 2022)

If Villa and Everton continue to decline how will the relegation zone work with both Lampard and Gerrard in it?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Because I believe the Rule only allows the referee to stop play if the ball touches them. After a bit of digging, I found:

"The ball is out of play when:

it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline on the ground or in the air
play has been stopped by the referee
*it touches a match official, remains on the field of play and:*
a team starts a promising attack or
the ball goes directly into the goal or
the team in possession of the ball changes

      In all these cases, play is restarted with a dropped ball.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply but some Rules mean nothing now imo. Interpretation differs between refs.
Who understands the handball rule ?
It’s up to the ref. Or should be !
The ref stopped Bowen getting the ball, 
Can’t remember who played the ball last but that would be within the last bullet point , possibly.
Should be worded “ if the ref interferes with play” not just the ball

Can’t remember the last time I saw a proper dropped ball.
The ref usually gives possession to team that had it last.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 20, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thanks for the reply but some Rules mean nothing now imo. Interpretation differs between refs.
Who understands the handball rule ?
It’s up to the ref. Or should be !
The ref stopped Bowen getting the ball, 
Can’t remember who played the ball last but that would be within the last bullet point , possibly.
Should be worded “ if the ref interferes with play” not just the ball

Can’t remember the last time I saw a proper dropped ball.
The ref usually gives possession to team that had it last.
		
Click to expand...

As I said, the referee has zero authority to stop the game if the ball does not touch him. There is no subjectivity around that, unlike a foul or handball. Had he stopped the game, there would be no law to back him up, and he would have had to deal with much more serious complaints, just not from West Ham.


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## Bazzatron (Oct 20, 2022)

I had a tenner on the caretaker manager at our place being given the job at 25/1. 

Just knew the board would mess the search up.


----------



## fundy (Oct 20, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			I had a tenner on the caretaker manager at our place being given the job at 25/1.

Just knew the board would mess the search up.
		
Click to expand...


Hope you bet at the books not on Betfair


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2022)

sacked in the morning, hes getting sacked in the morning.......................


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## Swango1980 (Oct 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			sacked in the morning, hes getting sacked in the morning.......................
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if he's glad he took the risk to leave Rangers now?


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## nickjdavis (Oct 20, 2022)

Big Sam for Villa?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wonder if he's glad he took the risk to leave Rangers now?
		
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He had to though, it was a natural progression. Villa are a good club, good squad, have some money to spend.


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He had to though, it was a natural progression. Villa are a good club, good squad, have some money to spend.
		
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and hes way out of his depth...............


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			and hes way out of his depth...............
		
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Possibly although I do think we are too quick to end a managerial career in this country. Maybe the fit hasn't been quite right and he will do better at the next club. I'm saying that as it's not rocket science to see him struggle to survive this. Equally, you may be right 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Possibly although I do think we are too quick to end a managerial career in this country. *Maybe the fit hasn't been quite right and he will do better at the next club.* I'm saying that as it's not rocket science to see him struggle to survive this. Equally, you may be right 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

i hope his next club is yours, or Tottenham, and not mine 🤣🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			i hope his next club is yours, or Tottenham, and not mine 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

After the Rafa experiment 😳. I can guarantee he won't be coming to us.

A word for Fulham. After some yo yoing in recent years, what a great start to the season.


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## Bazzatron (Oct 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hope you bet at the books not on Betfair
		
Click to expand...

Skybet, already paid out 👍🏾


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## fundy (Oct 20, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			Skybet, already paid out 👍🏾
		
Click to expand...

cos theyve called it an interim manager, hes got to last 10 games for betfair exchange to pay out.............

so still an odds against shot lol


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wouldn't worry about it. It appears those associated with Liverpool like to whinge about clubs with more money than them. More importantly, they absolutely must remind everyone that Liverpool FC make and spend money in the right and proper way, not like these clubs richer than them with super rich owners. I suppose this is to remind everyone that Liverpool FC is the biggest and best run club in the world.

They don't care about all those clubs poorer than them. They are just either poorly run, or have an inferior fan base. Deal with it. 

Click to expand...

I'd say that proper United fans have also give City just as much stick as us.


Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't care what liverpool spend, I don't care what any team spends. I care that my team have wasted millions but that's a parochial issue. Pretty much only liverpool care about this issue. Some spend more than others, it's always been that way. Keep going on this line but it's hollow to every other supporter out there.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, they must have been blag accounts for Arsenal, Spurs and "proper" Man u fans on football 365 and many others that I have read over the years.

Maybe your blue nose ears only hear Liverpool and Man U voices, perchance?


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## Bdill93 (Oct 20, 2022)

Goodbye Gerrard. You were awful. 

Up the Villa


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## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I’m going to hazard a guess and say Steven Gerrard will become one of the most successful managers in the future.
The worst thing is it could be with Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

This aged well eh Tony🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Goodbye Gerrard. You were awful. 

Up the Villa
		
Click to expand...

What a difference a few months make eh. You was pro Gerrard not so long ago, what's changed?

I see Mings has had another shocker last night😉


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## Swango1980 (Oct 21, 2022)

I suspect Gerrard has only been dismissed as it is about to be announced he is replacing Klopp.

Hopeful anyway


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## sunshine (Oct 21, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Goodbye Gerrard. You were awful.

Up the Villa
		
Click to expand...

The cult of personality. Get a big name to be the face, and hope that the backroom team deliver the goods behind the scenes. Didn't work for Boris either.

Villa better steer well clear of Michael Beale. He's taking QPR to the premier league.


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## Orikoru (Oct 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			What a difference a few months make eh. You was pro Gerrard not so long ago,* what's changed?*

I see Mings has had another shocker last night😉
		
Click to expand...

Just hazarding a guess, it could be when they started losing every week?


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## stefanovic (Oct 21, 2022)

At least I won't hear any commentator referring to AVFC as Steven Gerard's Aston Villa or Gerard's Villa, or Aston Villa, Steven Gerrard's side.
If he goes to Liverpool eventually do you seriously think it would become Steven Gerrard's Liverpool?
Of course not. Some clubs are actually bigger than the manager.


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## Beezerk (Oct 21, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			At least I won't hear any commentator referring to AVFC as Steven Gerard's Aston Villa or Gerard's Villa, or Aston Villa, Steven Gerrard's side.
If he goes to Liverpool eventually do you seriously think it would become Steven Gerrard's Liverpool?
Of course not. Some clubs are actually bigger than the manager.
		
Click to expand...

Frank Lampards Everton 😂


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## Swango1980 (Oct 21, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			At least I won't hear any commentator referring to AVFC as Steven Gerard's Aston Villa or Gerard's Villa, or Aston Villa, Steven Gerrard's side.
If he goes to Liverpool eventually do you seriously think it would become Steven Gerrard's Liverpool?
Of course not. Some clubs are actually bigger than the manager.
		
Click to expand...

I hear that sort of thing all the time. Klopp's Liverpool, Peps City, Ten Hag's United, Lampard's Everton, Howe's Newcastle, etc.

It clearly doesn't mean the manager is bigger than the club, it just highlights it is a team being run by a (often high profile) manager, who will be looking to play a certain way. Klopp's Liverpool is different to Hodgson's Liverpool, Ten Hag's Utd is different to Ole's United and Howe's Newcastle are different to Bruce's Newcastle. So, all that saying is will be to highlight whatever regime that club is under at present.


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## ADB (Oct 21, 2022)

Too soon??


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## Swango1980 (Oct 21, 2022)

Wow, 2 "political posts" since 9am this morning already


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## stefanovic (Oct 21, 2022)

Truss is a Villa fan?
Out of a job she could become the new no nonsense manager.
Truss's Villa sounds good to me.
https://www.balls.ie/football/steve...s-as-hes-sacked-as-aston-villa-manager-529356

It seems that mention of all clubs should be preceded by the name of the manager to give a level playing field and to inform the poor old fans who do not know.
We could have Potter's Chelsea, Arteta's Arsenal, Cooper's Forest.
Maybe Dyche's Derby, Bruce's Bolton one day.


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## HampshireHog (Oct 21, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			It seems that mention of all clubs should be preceded by the name of the manager to give a level playing field and to inform the poor old fans who do not know.
We could have Potter's Chelsea, Arteta's Arsenal, Cooper's Forest.
Maybe Dyche's Derby, Bruce's Bolton one day.
		
Click to expand...

The cost in signage could bankrupt Watford.


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## stefanovic (Oct 21, 2022)

HampshireHog said:



			The cost in signage could bankrupt Watford.
		
Click to expand...

Get a quote.
4 for the price of 2 may be on offer.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			This aged well eh Tony🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

The words future and Liverpool I was thinking.
Not a great start to his Premiership career though.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			The words future and Liverpool I was thinking.
Not a great start to his Premiership career though.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully its the end of linking him with taking over from Klopp.

His next appointment is crucial.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Hopefully its the end of linking him with taking over from Klopp.

His next appointment is crucial.
		
Click to expand...

Might help if he leaves his ego behind if he gets another shot at management.


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## 4LEX (Oct 21, 2022)

Gerrard had to go, Villa have been nothing short of woeful for a long time now. The quality of squad is better than the performances and results so it boils down to the manager. A shame as he did a really good job at Rangers and I expected him to do well at Villa.

Not sure Gerrard will get a better job, he'll probably have to drop into the Championship.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 22, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Gerrard had to go, Villa have been nothing short of woeful for a long time now. The quality of squad is better than the performances and results so it boils down to the manager. A shame as he did a really good job at Rangers and I expected him to do well at Villa.

Not sure Gerrard will get a better job, he'll probably have to drop into the Championship.
		
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He is a shoe on for the England job after Southgate I guess.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He is a shoe on for the England job after Southgate I guess.
		
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Just out of interest .
Who do we think will be the next England manager.
I would go Howe or Potter.


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## HampshireHog (Oct 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just out of interest .
Who do we think will be the next England manager.
I would go Howe or Potter.
		
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Howe, as good a job as he is doing at Newcastle he’s only there until the club can attract a high profile manager who in turn can attract higher profile players.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just out of interest .
Who do we think will be the next England manager.
I would go Howe or Potter.
		
Click to expand...

Won't be Potter, unless Southgate has many more years to go at England, and Potter has had enough time at Chelsea. He has only just joined Chelsea, so can't see him leaving that post in the next few years, unless sacked


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## Neilds (Oct 22, 2022)

With regard to the Gerrard comments, why do people think that good players will automatically become good managers? They didn’t start playing in the first team at a big Premiership club so why do their first managerial jobs start at big clubs? Surely they would be better starting off in the lower leagues- or won’t their egos let them?


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 22, 2022)

Neilds said:



			With regard to the Gerrard comments, why do people think that good players will automatically become good managers? They didn’t start playing in the first team at a big Premiership club so why do their first managerial jobs start at big clubs? Surely they would be better starting off in the lower leagues- or won’t their egos let them?
		
Click to expand...

Gerrard did start playing at a big prem team.
As did Lampard & Neville 🤷‍♂️


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## BiMGuy (Oct 22, 2022)

Neilds said:



			With regard to the Gerrard comments, why do people think that good players will automatically become good managers? They didn’t start playing in the first team at a big Premiership club so why do their first managerial jobs start at big clubs? Surely they would be better starting off in the lower leagues- or won’t their egos let them?
		
Click to expand...

Gerrard did start in a lower league.


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## Neilds (Oct 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Gerrard did start playing at a big prem team.
As did Lampard & Neville 🤷‍♂️
		
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Not in the first team , they worked their way up through the academy, reserves, etc


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2022)

Pretty sure I heard Aztecs celebrate that goal from here haha


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## RichA (Oct 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Pretty sure I heard Aztecs celebrate that goal from here haha
		
Click to expand...

It was me.


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2022)

What an amazing result for Forest, fair play to them!!!!


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 22, 2022)

Blimey wasn’t expecting that 😊


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## hairball_89 (Oct 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			What an amazing result for Forest, fair play to them!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Forest deserved that completely. We were bad going forward, but how on earth that back 5 could be so good against Man City and so atrocious today beggars belief. 

Both teams got everything they deserved out of it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just out of interest .
Who do we think will be the next England manager.
I would go Howe or Potter.
		
Click to expand...

If it is after this world cup then I don't see either of those being attracted by the job. Both are in great jobs right now, jobs and situations that may not be there again for them in the future.

Both would be ideal but it is not in their interest at the moment, imo.

The question is then who next? I'm not sure I have the answer to that, not very helpful 😄


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 22, 2022)

Forest deserved the win , worked very hard and got their three points 

Not sure what’s more pathetic - the display from the or the Forest fans and their chants about a disaster where fans lost their lives.

What is going on right now with football fans thinking it’s acceptable- the toxic atmosphere that’s growing in the grounds right now is ugly and it’s going to come to head soon


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 22, 2022)

Big win for Everton today. After 3 tough games, no points, we have a reasonable run of games before the world cup break. Palace first up, 3 points, DCL gets his first goal in an age, happy days.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 22, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583811171433742345
😂😂😂


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Big win for Everton today. After 3 tough games, no points, we have a reasonable run of games before the world cup break. Palace first up, 3 points, DCL gets his first goal in an age, happy days.
		
Click to expand...

Great result, Onward and Upward!

Also there have been quite a few matches and when I first came on I thought Phil T F had locked the Footie Thread as there was so little comment!


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Big win for Everton today. After 3 tough games, no points, we have a reasonable run of games before the world cup break. Palace first up, 3 points, DCL gets his first goal in an age, happy days.
		
Click to expand...


all hail King Iwobi i hear


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## Slime (Oct 22, 2022)

Horrible feeling that Varane is out for the season with an ACL, judging from his reaction.
Very sad if true.


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			Horrible feeling that Varane is out for the season with an ACL, judging from his reaction.
Very sad if true. 

Click to expand...


looked more like his hamstring to me, knows hes out of the WC hence the tears. Either way not good


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If it is after this world cup then I don't see either of those being attracted by the job. Both are in great jobs right now, jobs and situations that may not be there again for them in the future.

Both would be ideal but it is not in their interest at the moment, imo.

The question is then who next? I'm not sure I have the answer to that, not very helpful 😄
		
Click to expand...

It’s a long time in football until after the World Cup.
Both could be unemployed or top of the league.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 22, 2022)

Have the linesmen been given different instructions recently? At the start of the season they were allowing clear offsides to play on to allow the attack to play out. In this game the linesman has given two offsides, one in the first half against Chelsea and one in the second against Utd, that were so close that you probably would've needed lines drawn to make a decision. Having seen some of the clear offsides that weren't given early it seems strange to see two very close ones flagged while the attack was still going.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 22, 2022)

Not sure the complaints - it’s got to be a penalty 🤷‍♂️


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## Slime (Oct 22, 2022)




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## Slime (Oct 22, 2022)

Bugger.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 22, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Have the linesmen been given different instructions recently? At the start of the season they were allowing clear offsides to play on to allow the attack to play out. In this game the linesman has given two offsides, one in the first half against Chelsea and one in the second against Utd, that were so close that you probably would've needed lines drawn to make a decision. Having seen some of the clear offsides that weren't given early it seems strange to see two very close ones flagged while the attack was still going.
		
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There’s two handball rules so why not two offside ones.!
The problem lies with lack of consistency.


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## Piece (Oct 22, 2022)

Utd need a world level striker now to equalise....🤐🤣


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## Slime (Oct 22, 2022)

Piece said:



			Utd need a world level striker now to equalise....🤐🤣
		
Click to expand...

We do have Fred.


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## Slime (Oct 22, 2022)

Jorginho ............................... really?


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## Slime (Oct 22, 2022)




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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 22, 2022)

Now that’s a header 😲


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## Piece (Oct 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Now that’s a header 😲
		
Click to expand...

Just goes to show what an ageing ex Real Madrid superstar can do upfront


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## Slime (Oct 22, 2022)

Only a draw, but another good result against a top team.
One point gained rather than two points lost, I feel.


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2022)

well the last 10 mins spoiled one of the dullest games ever


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## fundy (Oct 22, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 44916

Click to expand...


nor could a large chunk of the Chelsea fans behind the goal lol, expensive tickets if youre not even gonna watch the key moments!!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			all hail King Iwobi i hear 

Click to expand...

Worth every penny 🤭.

To be fair, he has found his role now. Once everyone realised he wasn't going to be the next Wilf Zaha, worked out what he actually could do, he has been a different player. It's not quite a Joelinton transformation but not far off. He is a premiership player now, he wasn't before.

You still won on the deal but it's not as one sided as it used to be 😄


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## Orikoru (Oct 22, 2022)




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## hairball_89 (Oct 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



View attachment 44920

Click to expand...

Not gonna lie, my favourite one of these was his face and "we played two teams today. Nottingham and Forest. Nobody can compete with that"

But, by the same token, the deflection is nothing new - Mourinho, Wenger, Ferguson were all absolute masters of it. People are talking about Klopp first and not how awful the team were, so i guess it works?

I'd rather we weren't awful though!


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Forest deserved the win , worked very hard and got their three points

*Not sure what’s more pathetic - the display from the or the Forest fans and their chants about a disaster where fans lost their lives*.

What is going on right now with football fans thinking it’s acceptable- the toxic atmosphere that’s growing in the grounds right now is ugly and it’s going to come to head soon
		
Click to expand...

If this happened, it would have been from a few of the small minded knobs that frequent A block or Lower Bridgford. But I didn’t hear any yesterday 🤔 (doesn’t make it right either way)…there were also plenty of flags in support of Hillsborough. So let’s not tarnish all “forest fans” with the same brush eh. I’m sure there’s Liverpool “fans” who chant about Heysel when you play Juventus 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Tashyboy (Oct 23, 2022)

Oh the banter of some fans. Much more preferable than vile chants.


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## Skytot (Oct 23, 2022)

Went to city v Brighton yesterday and was very impressed with Brighton . Played great football and were unlucky not to get a point from the game . What a player KDB is


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Oh the banter of some fans. Much more preferable than vile chants.
		
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Same 😎


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Same 😎
		
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😬😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Same 😎
		
Click to expand...

Bindippers ?

Yet some just excuse it as “banter” - is that justification now , it’s just not funny 

You won yesterday deservedly so - celebrate that 


Just follows on the vile chanting that is going on at the moment and not just at Liverpool games


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 23, 2022)

Villa not missing Gerrard then. 🤣🤣


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## pokerjoke (Oct 23, 2022)

Shackles off at Villa 
Good to see Mitrovic score goals in PL
Come on Southampton


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## fundy (Oct 23, 2022)

Lol Theo oh dear


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Bindippers ?

Yet some just excuse it as “banter” - is that justification now , it’s just not funny

You won yesterday deservedly so - celebrate that


Just follows on the vile chanting that is going on at the moment and not just at Liverpool games
		
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🙄 let’s not pretend Liverpool fans are all angels either. “scabs”..pleasant.

Very much enjoying yesterday’s win. I’m sure you’ll do us at Anfield.


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## paddyc (Oct 23, 2022)

Arsenal hanging on here after having a cigar on in the first half, completely taking their foot off the gas. Not a threat at all after taking Martinelli off, can't understand  that.


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## fundy (Oct 23, 2022)

Disappointing performance, another game where weve come out fast but not put the game away then tired as it goes on. Plenty of players already in danger of being overused and were only in October. 2 games in a row weve been pretty poor away from home and taken 4 points so couldve been far worse

Not sure how the ref took 92 min to book a Saints centre half mind.....


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## fundy (Oct 23, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Arsenal hanging on here after having a cigar on in the first half, completely taking their foot off the gas. Not a threat at all after taking Martinelli off, can't understand  that.
		
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Was surprised he went off not Saka but hes played more football than anyone I guess. Be interesting to see what side he plays at PSV in the week


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			🙄 let’s not pretend Liverpool fans are all angels either. “scabs”..pleasant.

Very much enjoying yesterday’s win. I’m sure you’ll do us at Anfield.


View attachment 44929
View attachment 44929

Click to expand...

No one said anyones fans were full of angels and Twitter has plenty of them

But I guess that’s the justification you were looking for to be able to post what you did and to keep it there when it’s clearly offensive ( even more so in the current climate ), thought some on here were better - it’s disappointing to see


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## Tashyboy (Oct 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			Was surprised he went off not Saka but hes played more football than anyone I guess. Be interesting to see what side he plays at PSV in the week
		
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Not seen any of the game but, if Arteta is playing a high intensity tempo and does not have the strength in depth in the squad re subs. Arsenal could well blow out of steam. Teams start to peak around March, but this year Chuck in a World Cup. Could be a difficult second half of the season esp if Spurs stay in it. That said Arteta is now showing what he is capable of after a tricky start and the board should continue to invest in Him. Also be nice to have the Spuds and Arsenal rivalry at the top of the table.


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No one said anyones fans were full of angels and Twitter has plenty of them

But I guess that’s the justification you were looking for to be able to post what you did and to keep it there when it’s clearly offensive ( even more so in the current climate ), thought some on here were better - it’s disappointing to see
		
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ok pal. Apologies…any future memes will be vetted for offensive language.

(For the record, it wasn’t my creation and “a bunch of deluded 1 season wonders” still has the same impact 👍 original post edited, just for you)


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			ok pal. Apologies…any future memes will be vetted for offensive language.

(For the record, it wasn’t my creation and “a bunch of deluded 1 season wonders” still has the same impact 👍 original post edited, just for you)
		
Click to expand...

I’m all for banter and having a laugh at the expense of oppo fans when you beat them etc


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## fundy (Oct 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not seen any of the game but, if Arteta is playing a high intensity tempo and does not have the strength in depth in the squad re subs. Arsenal could well blow out of steam. Teams start to peak around March, but this year Chuck in a World Cup. Could be a difficult second half of the season esp if Spurs stay in it. That said Arteta is now showing what he is capable of after a tricky start and the board should continue to invest in Him. Also be nice to have the Spuds and Arsenal rivalry at the top of the table.
		
Click to expand...


Oh theres no doubt our squad is paper thin, especially in a few key positions (central midfield and striker especially). Whilst Arteta has made great progress its very one approach and getting the right players to fit that system and it seems he has little faith in many of the reserves to be able to rotate more (Jesus looked dead on his feet at times today but will still continue to start every league game ahead of Nketiah for eg)

Hopefully over time he'll have a bigger core of trusted players and this will bring about some more flexibility in approach too. Hard to argue about the board the last 2 summers, hes had more backing than most get and no reason to expect that not to continue. What has been clear is they are only going to buy who they want (and are prepared to pay for them) rather than buying short term fixes, but theres only so many who fit the mould/system!

Going forward, we definitely need more from the likes of Nketiah, Viera, Sambi Lokonga but will also look to add one or two more in January hopefully


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 23, 2022)

Quite funny to see the Geordies taking their tops off as the storm hit whilst the spurs fans ran for cover 😂

excellent game

Newcastle doing well - Calum Wilson is a superb striker and if he can stay fit should be a shoe in for the World Cup ,

Kane spending most of the time moaning at the ref and asking for players to be carded

Is this a penalty


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 23, 2022)

No penalty for me. The still makes it look bad but it wasn't in real time.

Good match, Toon more than a match for Spurs. Toon showing themselves to be real top 4 contenders.


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## Golfmmad (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Big win for Everton today. After 3 tough games, no points, we have a reasonable run of games before the world cup break. Palace first up, 3 points, DCL gets his first goal in an age, happy days.
		
Click to expand...

Really pleased for Everton, fully deserved the win. 
Dominic-Calvert-Lewin showed what Everton have been missing this season! 
Iwobi was class as well. 
Well pleased for Frank.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 23, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			Really pleased for Everton, fully deserved the win.
Dominic-Calvert-Lewin showed what Everton have been missing this season!
Iwobi was class as well.
Well pleased for Frank.
		
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A good amount of our problems last year revolved around missing him then as well. Clearly a weakness that we didn't have a spare striker to fill the void but we didn't, not one worthy of the title anyway. He is a significant player for us, makes a major difference. Probably the difference between mid table and a relegation battle.


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## Jensen (Oct 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Quite funny to see the Geordies taking their tops off as the storm hit whilst the spurs fans ran for cover 😂

excellent game

Newcastle doing well - Calum Wilson is a superb striker and if he can stay fit should be a shoe in for the World Cup ,

Kane spending most of the time moaning at the ref and asking for players to be carded

Is this a penalty

View attachment 44931

Click to expand...

Firstly, Lloris had a nightmare and was to blame for BOTH goals. 
There’s absolutely NO way he was fouled for the first goal. Wilson merely stood his ground and Lloris bumped into him. Lloris should’ve smacked the ball clear. Wilson’s finish was top draw 👍
Secondly, it shows how Conte’s system is flawed. He doesn’t play with any creative midfielders, he just wants to nullify the midfield. We need a creative player who can open things up like Eriksen did.
Thirdly, I can’t understand why he doesn’t play Lucas Moura he’s a busy player who creates things and makes things happen.
Lastly, after all that money spent on the stadium how can the fans not be kept dry by better roofing 🤔

Conte may get results, but it’s on the basis of allowing the opposition to have possession as long as they don’t hurt you. Well why not keep the ball more and then that way the opposition can’t hurt you.
I don’t particularly like watching Spurs under Conte, it’s certainly not entertaining


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 23, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584241572626907136
🤦‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 23, 2022)

@Jensen I thought Moura looked really lively when he came on, caused Newcastle trouble. Does he not fit the Conte way or is he one that is better coming on off the bench rather than starting?


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## pokerjoke (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Jensen I thought Moura looked really lively when he came on, caused Newcastle trouble. Does he not fit the Conte way or is he one that is better coming on off the bench rather than starting?
		
Click to expand...

Been injured apparently 
Should get more game time now hopefully.


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## Jensen (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Jensen I thought Moura looked really lively when he came on, caused Newcastle trouble. Does he not fit the Conte way or is he one that is better coming on off the bench rather than starting?
		
Click to expand...

I would like to see him start, it certainly puts us on the offensive. That’s probably why Conte doesn’t start with him. It was thanks to Moura  that we got to the Champions League Final. It’s just a shame the team didn’t turn up for the final. 😁


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## Tashyboy (Oct 24, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Firstly, Lloris had a nightmare and was to blame for BOTH goals.
There’s absolutely NO way he was fouled for the first goal. Wilson merely stood his ground and Lloris bumped into him. Lloris should’ve smacked the ball clear. Wilson’s finish was top draw 👍
Secondly, it shows how Conte’s system is flawed. He doesn’t play with any creative midfielders, he just wants to nullify the midfield. We need a creative player who can open things up like Eriksen did.
Thirdly, I can’t understand why he doesn’t play Lucas Moura he’s a busy player who creates things and makes things happen.
Lastly, after all that money spent on the stadium how can the fans not be kept dry by better roofing 🤔

Conte may get results, but it’s on the basis of allowing the opposition to have possession as long as they don’t hurt you. Well why not keep the ball more and then that way the opposition can’t hurt you.
I don’t particularly like watching Spurs under Conte, it’s certainly not entertaining
		
Click to expand...

Refreshing to see a honest view about ones own team without putting rose tinted glasses on. Serious question though mainly for Chelsea fans. Did Chelsea sit back as much under Conte as they do now at Spurs.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 24, 2022)

Spurs looked really sharp on the break yesterday....just a pity for them that its Kane that is supplying the killer through ball...he really can pick a pass...Son is very adept at putting the ball in the onion bag but I'm sure Spurs fans would like to see Kane getting on to his own through balls.

My only concern is that if it becomes a habit at club level then Kane will drop deep when playing for England even more than he already does. Maybe there is a future for Kane (as he ages) to perhaps drop into midfield and become one of those generals dictating play like a quarterback or Gullit - who eventually even dropped further back to a role just ahead of the back four...almost Pirlo like.

As a Newcastle supporter though I was really pleased with the commitment, effort and athleticism of the entire team....the whole club does now appear to be working as a team with development of not only the playing staff, but the backroom staff, the Ladies team, the training facilities. There is a real togetherness and a connection now with the supporters that has been clearly missing over recent years. Whether we finish in any of the European qualification spots is utterly irrelevant...it is inevitable that we will have a period where results don't go our way...I just hope my fellow supporters don't forget the bleak times we've suffered and lose perspective about what has been achieved over the last year.

For me last season was about survival. This season consolidation (any mid-ish table finish with no spectre of relegation hanging over us at any time). Next season progress (solid 7/8/9th). Following season competing for a Europa League spot.....after that...who knows. Maybe the title in the 26/27 season...exactly 100 years since the last one. We seem to have missed out the consolidation stage however and gone straight to progress/Europe League challenge. A couple of good cup runs in amongst all that would be nice as well.

It's nice to look forward to watching MOTD these days!!!


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## Orikoru (Oct 24, 2022)

Jensen said:



			Firstly, Lloris had a nightmare and was to blame for BOTH goals.
There’s absolutely NO way he was fouled for the first goal. Wilson merely stood his ground and Lloris bumped into him. Lloris should’ve smacked the ball clear. Wilson’s finish was top draw 👍
Secondly, it shows how Conte’s system is flawed. He doesn’t play with any creative midfielders, he just wants to nullify the midfield. We need a creative player who can open things up like Eriksen did.
Thirdly, I can’t understand why he doesn’t play Lucas Moura he’s a busy player who creates things and makes things happen.
Lastly, after all that money spent on the stadium how can the fans not be kept dry by better roofing 🤔

Conte may get results, but it’s on the basis of allowing the opposition to have possession as long as they don’t hurt you. Well why not keep the ball more and then that way the opposition can’t hurt you.
I don’t particularly like watching Spurs under Conte, it’s certainly not entertaining
		
Click to expand...

Can't disagree with much of this. Lloris seems to be fluctuating between playing a blinder and playing a blunder at the moment, but he is turning 36 soon. I hope we're thinking seriously about a long-term replacement now. Would be good to pick up D.Henderson if United are just going to keep loaning him out. I don't think there was enough for a foul from Wilson, Redknapp was trying to claim he put his left arm across him, but I think that's just an instinct to protect yourself when somebody bumps into you. It was just a nonsense goal. Spurs fans keep saying we 'need an Eriksen' but he won't change the formation and this formation has no place for that sort of player. The entire plan seems to be block the middle and attack out wide. It doesn't work when the wing backs aren't up to scratch. Royal is crap, Doherty not consistent enough (although I'd be starting him over ER), Sessegnon is improving but not top drawer yet. Perisic is good but on his last legs I think hence he's not playing him every week. 

Lucas has been injured, but he's never been able to hold down a starting place under multiple managers has he? I've always liked him. Maybe doesn't score enough but he's always lively and makes things happen. Reminds me of prime Aaron Lennon. I still think Kulusevski is a slightly better player though, and I can't wait for him to be fit again. We obviously missed Hojbjerg & Romero as well, who have both been very good this season.


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## Orikoru (Oct 24, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Spurs looked really sharp on the break yesterday....just a pity for them that its Kane that is supplying the killer through ball...he really can pick a pass...Son is very adept at putting the ball in the onion bag but I'm sure Spurs fans would like to see Kane getting on to his own through balls.

My only concern is that if it becomes a habit at club level then Kane will drop deep when playing for England even more than he already does. Maybe there is a future for Kane (as he ages) to perhaps drop into midfield and become one of those generals dictating play like a quarterback or Gullit - who eventually even dropped further back to a role just ahead of the back four...almost Pirlo like.
		
Click to expand...

Kane really is far too good. We need three of him - one up top, one in midfield and I even think he's better than most of our defenders as well.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 24, 2022)




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## 4LEX (Oct 24, 2022)

What's everyones take on the Neville and Keane 'exchange' from Saturday?


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## Tashyboy (Oct 24, 2022)

4LEX said:



			What's everyones take on the Neville and Keane 'exchange' from Saturday?
		
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Not heard what has gone off.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Not heard what has gone off.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/roy-keane-neville-ronaldo-argument-28306219


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## Slime (Oct 24, 2022)

4LEX said:



			What's everyones take on the Neville and Keane 'exchange' from Saturday?
		
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Box office, guaranteed with Roy Keane.
Just two guys with differing opinions, nothing more or nothing less.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 24, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/roy-keane-neville-ronaldo-argument-28306219

Click to expand...

Having read the quotes. Whether you agree with either of them, they are arguing about an has been. No doubting his past record but he is/was one of the worlds best players who is setting a shocking example. If it was a young pro he would be out. He is setting a poor example as a senior player. Tarnished his Utd reputation me thinks.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 24, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584614065783336961
Definitely a level of manager that I didn't think would be attainable for Villa.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Having read the quotes. Whether you agree with either of them, they are arguing about an has been. No doubting his past record but he is/was one of the worlds best players who is setting a shocking example. If it was a young pro he would be out. He is setting a poor example as a senior player. Tarnished his Utd reputation me thinks.
		
Click to expand...

His ego is writing cheques that his body can no longer cash.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584614065783336961
Definitely a level of manager that I didn't think would be attainable for Villa.
		
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Did he turn down Newcastle ? 

Decent manager - wonder what his target will be for Villa


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2022)

Be interesting to see how Emery goes at Villa, sneaky feeling he'll do well. Expect he knew he would come back to the prem at some stage and will be very well prepared


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2022)

how on earth is that not handball? volleyball spike for an assist lol


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## pauljames87 (Oct 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			how on earth is that not handball? volleyball spike for an assist lol
		
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100% handball but apparently now if it's happened in second phase ie gone off someone else it's no longer handball 

It's bull.. that's handball


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			how on earth is that not handball? volleyball spike for an assist lol
		
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I don't understand the handball rule anymore. If the Bournemouth defender had left the ball to go in then it would've been ruled out for handball. But because the defender played the ball then it's no longer handball. I think.


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			100% handball but apparently now if it's happened in second phase ie gone off someone else it's no longer handball

It's bull.. that's handball
		
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when did they change the rules again?


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## nickjdavis (Oct 24, 2022)

I guess the officials decided that the pundits needed to have something to talk about at half time....that was a grim 45 minutes.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 24, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			I guess the officials decided that the pundits needed to have something to talk about at half time....that was a grim 45 minutes.
		
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Agree with that, and I’m in the stadium!🥱


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## pauljames87 (Oct 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			when did they change the rules again?
		
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Start of last season they just said


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## Tashyboy (Oct 24, 2022)

Just read a clip about enery. 
He has managed SeVilla and Villareal. Only a matter of time til he managed Villa. 😁


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just read a clip about enery.
He has managed SeVilla and Villareal. Only a matter of time til he managed Villa. 😁
		
Click to expand...


you missed out David Villa


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## adam6177 (Oct 24, 2022)

I hope he sticks with good ebening.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 24, 2022)

why does it take so long to come to a conclusion about whether a ref should review something or not????


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			why does it take so long to come to a conclusion about whether a ref should review something or not????
		
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because no one knows whats handball and what isnt anymore lol

really does need revisiting!


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## pauljames87 (Oct 24, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			why does it take so long to come to a conclusion about whether a ref should review something or not????
		
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Such a big deal made. Thought that one was hand ball the way he threw his hands down 

But hey .. if your Bournemouth you hate var tonight


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## fundy (Oct 24, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Such a big deal made. Thought that one was hand ball the way he threw his hands down

But hey .. if your Bournemouth you hate var tonight
		
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when you slide in like that where are you supposed to put yours arms?  be nice to talk about football rather than var for a change..............


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## nickjdavis (Oct 24, 2022)

No complaints about the penalty decision....loads of similar decisions given this season....dont get how it takes so long to advise the ref to take a look at the monitor.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			when you slide in like that where are you supposed to put yours arms?  be nice to talk about football rather than var for a change..............
		
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It wasn't for me where he put his arms it was the fact he made a movement with them that was like he was punching the ball away on the sly 

Yes it would be refreshing to not talk about var


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## Tashyboy (Oct 24, 2022)

Just seen the first Hammers goal. God the rules are a mess when it comes to handball.
If a attacker handles that and the team scores through first or second stage it’s wiped out.
If a defender Handles that and the team scores through first or second stage it’s a goal.
Glad that’s cleared up.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 24, 2022)

So as I picked West Ham in the Last Man Standing am I through or am I out


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## pendodave (Oct 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			when you slide in like that where are you supposed to put yours arms?  be nice to talk about football rather than var for a change..............
		
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I was looking straight down at this from where I was sat, and he really looked like he went down like a keeper making a save. 
When it wasn't given, I remarked to my mate that it was looked like a pen all day except that it might have been outside the box. 
My first attendance of the season, it's hard to describe how terrible var makes the match-going experience. It couldn't be worse if they tried, and it certainly isn't any better than last year.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 25, 2022)

pendodave said:



			I was looking straight down at this from where I was sat, and he really looked like he went down like a keeper making a save.
When it wasn't given, I remarked to my mate that it was looked like a pen all day except that it might have been outside the box.
*My first attendance of the season, it's hard to describe how terrible var makes the match-going experience. It couldn't be worse if they tried, and it certainly isn't any better than last year.*

Click to expand...

Nail on head.👍

 Just seen the first goal again on telly. What shocked me was the ball comes in from a corner and the ball comes off the West Ham players arm and heads towards the goals. There is definite movement from the players right arm knocking the ball goal bound. How was that not picked up. The arm was definitely in a natural position but the movement by his right arm was not natural. 

As sure as Wednesday follows Tuesday I am not looking forward to talking about VAR again and not the game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 25, 2022)

To be fair, VAR is not at fault here, it is the rules. The rules are wonky on this, VAR is only enforcing them. It does look a nonsense though.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, VAR is not at fault here, it is the rules. The rules are wonky on this, VAR is only enforcing them. It does look a nonsense though.
		
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The rules are deffo wonky but the problem as pendodave said. For the match going fan it is purgatory. The emotion of your team scoring or conceding a goal is then coupled with a couple Of minutes of uncertainty. It is a real anti climax feeling. It just kills the game for match going fans not knowing what is going off, not knowing what there looking for. That needs to be sorted similar to how they do it in rugby union. Talking of rugby union the refs seems to be more clued up than the average prem league ref. ☹️


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## Fromtherough (Oct 25, 2022)

Unsure how I feel about Carrick becoming the new Middlesbrough manager. Undeniably, a great player. The Championship is a difficult league to cut your teeth in though. Particularly at a currently failing club, who should be doing better and with what will likely be a severely restricted budget. Recent years have seen us have a merry-go-round of managers, with six handed their P45 since 2017. The appointment of Woodgate as first team coach is odd as well. I’d hope it was Carrick’s call - but unsure of the connection.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 25, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			The rules are deffo wonky but the problem as pendodave said. For the match going fan it is purgatory. The emotion of your team scoring or conceding a goal is then coupled with a couple Of minutes of uncertainty. It is a real anti climax feeling. It just kills the game for match going fans not knowing what is going off, not knowing what there looking for. That needs to be sorted similar to how they do it in rugby union. Talking of rugby union the refs seems to be more clued up than the average prem league ref. ☹️
		
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I get that, no argument there. Rugby does it better in the we all get to hear the discussion between ref and VAR but it can equally take minutes so the same sense of anti climax is there.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 25, 2022)

Fromtherough said:



			Unsure how I feel about Carrick becoming the new Middlesbrough manager. Undeniably, a great player. The Championship is a difficult league to cut your teeth in though. Particularly at a currently failing club, who should be doing better and with what will likely be a severely restricted budget. Recent years have seen us have a merry-go-round of managers, with six handed their P45 since 2017. The appointment of Woodgate as first team coach is odd as well. I’d hope it was Carrick’s call - but unsure of the connection.
		
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Woodgate was manager there for a spell wasn't he? That does make it weird. Ultimately you don't know with someone like Carrick but then I thought Wilder was a great appointment, safe as well as giving you a great chance of play off spot, and that didn't work for you. Maybe he can get a few utd u'21's coming your way to help out?


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## Fromtherough (Oct 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Woodgate was manager there for a spell wasn't he? That does make it weird. Ultimately you don't know with someone like Carrick but then I thought Wilder was a great appointment, safe as well as giving you a great chance of play off spot, and that didn't work for you. Maybe he can get a few utd u'21's coming your way to help out?
		
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Yeah Woodgate was manager from June 2019 to June 2020. It’s an odd appointment. As you say, hopefully Carrick will attract top young players wanting first team experience. Wilder started well, but had no plan b. We became too easy to score against. His arrogant press conferences didn’t endear him to the fans. To be honest, the investment policy has got to change so he’s not entirely at fault for our current position. However, the best thing about his tenure was the song “Oh Wilder said…”.


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## adam6177 (Oct 25, 2022)

If you could have any ONE player from any other another PL team, who would you take?

I know the obvious answers will be de bruyne and haaland, but for me right now as a pool fan, I'd take Declan Rice.  

For me he'd be a great replacement for Henderson and/or fabinho, both of whom aren't performing right now.  Only issue for me is that he doesn't have an eye for goal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			If you could have any ONE player from any other another PL team, who would you take?

I know the obvious answers will be de bruyne and haaland, but for me right now as a pool fan, I'd take Declan Rice. 

For me he'd be a great replacement for Henderson and/or fabinho, both of whom aren't performing right now.  Only issue for me is that he doesn't have an eye for goal.
		
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Kevin De Bruyne all day long


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## fundy (Oct 25, 2022)

how many pens does Mahrez have to miss before they stop him taking them lol


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 25, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			If you could have any ONE player from any other another PL team, who would you take?

I know the obvious answers will be de bruyne and haaland, but for me right now as a pool fan, I'd take Declan Rice. 

For me he'd be a great replacement for Henderson and/or fabinho, both of whom aren't performing right now.  Only issue for me is that he doesn't have an eye for goal.
		
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As a Colchester fan I'd take any player from any team in the Prem. Even the worst player in the worst PL squad would be several steps up from the current rubbish we have in our squad.

If I was a fan of a PL club then it would be Haaland every day of the week. To me it's a no-brainer, when you've got someone who scores that many goals then they are going to gain you so many points each season.


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## fundy (Oct 25, 2022)

Oh my thats some miss against Celtic in the CL lol


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## Slime (Oct 25, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			If you could have any ONE player from any other another PL team, who would you take?

I know the obvious answers will be de bruyne and haaland, but for me right now as a pool fan, I'd take Declan Rice. 

For me he'd be a great replacement for Henderson and/or fabinho, both of whom aren't performing right now.  Only issue for me is that he doesn't have an eye for goal.
		
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Haaland ......................... in a heart beat.


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## Dando (Oct 25, 2022)

fundy said:



			how many pens does Mahrez have to miss before they stop him taking them lol
		
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Calling it a “miss” is harsh - the keeper saved it


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## fundy (Oct 25, 2022)

Dando said:



			Calling it a “miss” is harsh - the keeper saved it
		
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nice height just off centre, clear miss in my book


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## Swango1980 (Oct 25, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			If you could have any ONE player from any other another PL team, who would you take?

I know the obvious answers will be de bruyne and haaland, but for me right now as a pool fan, I'd take Declan Rice.  

For me he'd be a great replacement for Henderson and/or fabinho, both of whom aren't performing right now.  Only issue for me is that he doesn't have an eye for goal.
		
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Haaland, as a Man Utd fan. Although he'd definitely not be available. So, Harry Kane.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 25, 2022)

juventus do not make the knockout stage 😳😁


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Oh my thats some miss against Celtic in the CL lol
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585005866054406144😂😂


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## rudebhoy (Oct 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Oh my thats some miss against Celtic in the CL lol
		
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Quite possibly the worst miss I've ever seen


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## Slime (Oct 26, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585005866054406144😂😂
		
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I'm sure that was posted on here last night, but I just can't find it!
Maybe I should go back to bed.


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## Orikoru (Oct 26, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Quite possibly the worst miss I've ever seen 

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So bad it hardly qualifies as a miss, he didn't even get a shot away. Just the heaviest touch of all time. It almost looked like if he'd have jumped and slid he might have got to it before it went out of play as well.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 26, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm sure that was posted on here last night, but I just can't find it!
Maybe I should go back to bed. 

Click to expand...

It was but it contained a swearword, hence it & the poster have been removed...


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## rudebhoy (Oct 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			It was but it contained a swearword, hence it & the poster have been removed... 

Click to expand...

Who was the poster?


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## pauljames87 (Oct 26, 2022)

Former referee Dermot Gallagher says the VAR team were correct to allow Kurt Zouma's opening goal against Bournemouth to stand.
And he also believes VAR assistant Mike Dean and his panel were correct to award West Ham a penalty in the final minute of normal time following a hand ball by Bournemouth sub Jordan Zemura.
Explaining why West Ham's opening goal was allowed to stand despite the ball appearing to bounce off defender Thilo Kehrer's forearm, Gallagher said: " With the law set up as it is now, there are three questions.

"Did Kehrer score? No. Did it result in an immediate goal from a colleague? No. And the third thing is, the only way you could disallow it is if it was deliberate hand ball.

"It went to Mike Dean's VAR. He had a look, he said it hit him [Kehrer] but he thought it was accidental - and therefore the referee can't disallow the goal.

"If Kehrer had scored himself obviously it would've been disallowed. If it had gone immediately to Soucek and he'd put the ball in the net, also disallowed. That's why it defaulted to the third option."

And as for West Ham's second goal, which came from the penalty spot after Zemura was adjudged to have handled the ball from Vladimir Coufal's cross, Gallagher added: "Zemura dives in and his arms are outstretched.

"It hits his arms and we've seen 95 per cent of these given in the Premier League, they've been very consistent in applying this.

The other giveaway is that that ball is being crossed in the box to Antonio and he [Zemura] has stopped the cross because his arms are out. Once you see it on the replay the referee is duty bound to give a penalty.

"He's stopping the cross, there's no doubt about that. Unfortunately for Zemura he's tried to make his body bigger to block the cross - he hasn't gone to handle the ball because it's struck it.

"And that's the thing - 90 per cent of the penalties given now for hand ball are not deliberate but because they've blocked the cross or the shot towards goal, they automatically give penalties. 

"They were both correct decisions because they fall in line with what we've seen. You're never going to get 100 per cent correct decisions, we recognise that, but 90 per cent of these have been given as penalties and the expectation now from spectators now is 'penalty'.

"And I think the expectation was Zemura was 'penalty'. Even, when you saw him, he had this resigned look on his face - almost as if to say 'I know what's coming'. 



one thing I will say about this summary of both incidents is 90% of the time, the 10% is what people moan about.. much like everything in life, be it deliveroo drivers not turning up.. jumping red lights..its 10% of a lot of situations just make it stand out more i guess

still dont think the first was a goal think it was handball but that seems what we keep saying here.. VAR isnt the issue, its the Laws that are


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## Tashyboy (Oct 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Former referee Dermot Gallagher says the VAR team were correct to allow Kurt Zouma's opening goal against Bournemouth to stand.
And he also believes VAR assistant Mike Dean and his panel were correct to award West Ham a penalty in the final minute of normal time following a hand ball by Bournemouth sub Jordan Zemura.
Explaining why West Ham's opening goal was allowed to stand despite the ball appearing to bounce off defender Thilo Kehrer's forearm, Gallagher said: " With the law set up as it is now, there are three questions.

"Did Kehrer score? No. Did it result in an immediate goal from a colleague? No. And the third thing is, the only way you could disallow it is if it was deliberate hand ball.

"It went to Mike Dean's VAR. He had a look, he said it hit him [Kehrer] *but he thought it was accidental *- and therefore the referee can't disallow the goal.

"If Kehrer had scored himself obviously it would've been disallowed. If it had gone immediately to Soucek and he'd put the ball in the net, also disallowed. That's why it defaulted to the third option."

And as for West Ham's second goal, which came from the penalty spot after Zemura was adjudged to have handled the ball from Vladimir Coufal's cross, Gallagher added: "Zemura dives in and his arms are outstretched.

"It hits his arms and we've seen 95 per cent of these given in the Premier League, they've been very consistent in applying this.

The other giveaway is that that ball is being crossed in the box to Antonio and he [Zemura] has stopped the cross because his arms are out. Once you see it on the replay the referee is duty bound to give a penalty.

"He's stopping the cross, there's no doubt about that. Unfortunately for Zemura he's tried to make his body bigger to block the cross - he hasn't gone to handle the ball because it's struck it.

"And that's the thing - 90 per cent of the penalties given now for hand ball are not deliberate but because they've blocked the cross or the shot towards goal, they automatically give penalties.

"They were both correct decisions because they fall in line with what we've seen. You're never going to get 100 per cent correct decisions, we recognise that, but 90 per cent of these have been given as penalties and the expectation now from spectators now is 'penalty'.

"And I think the expectation was Zemura was 'penalty'. Even, when you saw him, he had this resigned look on his face - almost as if to say 'I know what's coming'.



one thing I will say about this summary of both incidents is 90% of the time, the 10% is what people moan about.. much like everything in life, be it deliveroo drivers not turning up.. jumping red lights..its 10% of a lot of situations just make it stand out more i guess

still dont think the first was a goal think it was handball but that seems what we keep saying here.. *VAR isnt the issue, its the Laws that are*

Click to expand...



An excellent read up. But the highlighted points sum up what is wrong with this particular instance. Kehre, made a deliberate movement with his right arm to direct the ball towards the goals. It was intentional. At that point it should of been disallowed. For me the interpretation of what is and what is not handball in that instance was wrong. Again did it result in an immediate goal. It was in the back of the net within three seconds so what is classed as “ immediate”. 
Re Dermot Gallagher giving his thoughts, I seriously have issues re referees giving an opinion on referees. They nearly always defend them. We need. Roy Keane of referees to give his thoughts 😁


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## pauljames87 (Oct 26, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			An excellent read up. But the highlighted points sum up what is wrong with this particular instance. Kehre, made a deliberate movement with his right arm to direct the ball towards the goals. It was intentional. At that point it should of been disallowed. For me the interpretation of what is and what is not handball in that instance was wrong. Again did it result in an immediate goal. It was in the back of the net within three seconds so what is classed as “ immediate”.
Re Dermot Gallagher giving his thoughts, I seriously have issues re referees giving an opinion on referees. They nearly always defend them. We need. Roy Keane of referees to give his thoughts 😁
		
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I understand the immediate bit because its been summed up a few times this season (we benefited from it during fulham game) it came off another player so to speak. Soucek header had gone in, that would be disallowed but he headed and the defender cleared 

much like fulham goal with antonio he got a touch but then defender touched it back to him so second phase

terrible law but its what we got


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			An excellent read up. But the highlighted points sum up what is wrong with this particular instance. Kehre, made a deliberate movement with his right arm to direct the ball towards the goals.* It was intentional. *At that point it should of been disallowed. For me the interpretation of what is and what is not handball in that instance was wrong. Again did it result in an immediate goal. It was in the back of the net within three seconds so what is classed as “ immediate”.
Re Dermot Gallagher giving his thoughts, I seriously have issues re referees giving an opinion on referees. They nearly always defend them. We need. Roy Keane of referees to give his thoughts 😁
		
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See, this is were I have to disagree, or at least at best say this is completely subjective.

I have just gone on youtube and watched the replay about 8 times, from the various angles given. I struggle to see any intent to handle the ball at all. He just seems to jump up, as the ball is approaching him, with a load of other players in front. His hands are down by his torso, and it seems he wasn't really expecting it to get all the way though. The fact that he jumped indicates he completely misjudged the flight of the ball. It then just goes into his torso, and hits his arm(s). So, from my own subjective viewpoint, I'm firmly in the corner he had no intent to ever handle the ball. I can't say it with 100% certainty as I can't read his mind, but I'm definitely closer to 100% than 50%.

But, we'll never eliminate subjectivity from football. That can even mean that one person is 100% for one decision, whilst another is 100% the other way. Neither thinks it is subjective, but it is (even if we ignore biased opinions of fans the decision related to).

However, as said, the handball rule is certainly a farce. Where it is given as a handball purely based on either what happens next, or whether it is a defending or attacking player it relates to.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			See, this is were I have to disagree, or at least at best say this is completely subjective.

I have just gone on youtube and watched the replay about 8 times, from the various angles given. I struggle to see any intent to handle the ball at all. He just seems to jump up, as the ball is approaching him, with a load of other players in front. His hands are down by his torso, and it seems he wasn't really expecting it to get all the way though. The fact that he jumped indicates he completely misjudged the flight of the ball. It then just goes into his torso, and hits his arm(s). So, from my own subjective viewpoint, I'm firmly in the corner he had no intent to ever handle the ball. I can't say it with 100% certainty as I can't read his mind, but I'm definitely closer to 100% than 50%.

But, we'll never eliminate subjectivity from football. That can even mean that one person is 100% for one decision, whilst another is 100% the other way. Neither thinks it is subjective, but it is (even if we ignore biased opinions of fans the decision related to).

However, as said, the handball rule is certainly a farce. Where it is given as a handball purely based on either what happens next, or whether it is a defending or attacking player it relates to.
		
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Problem is nothing is black and white 

We had the anything below the shoulder being handball for a while and players started kicking it against hands to get a pen .. they had to change it


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## Tashyboy (Oct 26, 2022)

Just outta interest and I don’t know the answer to this. Who and when do rules change and are footballers actually part of the rule change process. 🤔


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 26, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just outta interest and I don’t know the answer to this. Who and when do rules change and are footballers actually part of the rule change process. 🤔
		
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https://www.theifab.com/organisation/

This is the body that makes the rules, a range of people are on it including ex footballers and managers.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just outta interest and I don’t know the answer to this. Who and when do rules change and are footballers actually part of the rule change process. 🤔
		
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I don't know the answer. I suspect they change things dependent on the amount of criticism they get at any given time. However, it is like they rush to make changes, without talking to that many people, and fail to see where the rule change might kick them up the back side. I don't even know who is responsible for writing the rules, or where they are based? Google tells me it is the IFAB, but I don't know if the rules change (or at least their interpretations) from one country to another? For example, was the shirt sleave rule just in this country? Or the various handball rules we hear about, are they consistent, or will we have different interpretations at the World Cup. I seem to remember Spanish football automatically booked players for handball a while back, even if it was accidental.

It would be useful if the authorities in each country educated the main broadcasters (BBC, Sky and BT). At least the pundits and commentators would then have an idea of how the rule is MEANT to work, and then have a more informed opinion as to whether a decision was correct or not. Often they seem as clueless as the rest of us, and it required Lineker to show a screenshot of the wording of a particular rule to try and explain things. Robbie Savage seems to have no idea of the most basic rules, although that has probably more to do with him than anything else.


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## Slime (Oct 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Problem is *nothing is black and white*

We had the anything below the shoulder being handball for a while and players started kicking it against hands to get a pen .. they had to change it
		
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A chess board or a zebra?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't know the answer. I suspect they change things dependent on the amount of criticism they get at any given time. However, it is like they rush to make changes, without talking to that many people, and fail to see where the rule change might kick them up the back side. I don't even know who is responsible for writing the rules, or where they are based? Google tells me it is the IFAB, but I don't know if the rules change (or at least their interpretations) from one country to another? For example, was the shirt sleave rule just in this country? Or the various handball rules we hear about, are they consistent, or will we have different interpretations at the World Cup. I seem to remember Spanish football automatically booked players for handball a while back, even if it was accidental.

It would be useful if the authorities in each country educated the main broadcasters (BBC, Sky and BT). At least the pundits and commentators would then have an idea of how the rule is MEANT to work, and then have a more informed opinion as to whether a decision was correct or not. Often they seem as clueless as the rest of us, and it required Lineker to show a screenshot of the wording of a particular rule to try and explain things. Robbie Savage seems to have no idea of the most basic rules, although that has probably more to do with him than anything else.
		
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I'd love to hear a conversation between Robbie Savage and Clinton Morrison where they discuss who understands the rules least of all between them both 😆. Then again, no it would be purgatory 😳.

Personally I'd have thought professional pride as a broadcaster would mean that you would go on a referee's course, hone up on rule changes every season. That way you would know what was going on. Is that too much to ask?


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd love to hear a conversation between Robbie Savage and Clinton Morrison where they discuss who understands the rules least of all between them both 😆. Then again, no it would be purgatory 😳.

Personally I'd have thought professional pride as a broadcaster would mean that you would go on a referee's course,* hone up on rule changes every season.* That way you would know what was going on. Is that too much to ask?
		
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Problem is, the rules seem to change every week or two. Or, at least how they are interpreted.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Problem is, the rules seem to change every week or two. Or, at least how they are interpreted.
		
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They don't really. Interpretations may change slightly but clubs and media are notified by referees association, they go into clubs to explain, so the information is out there.

There really isn't an excuse for professionals, it's just laziness or a way to hype up callers on radio phone ins.


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## 4LEX (Oct 26, 2022)

Struggle to think of a worse first half performance from any English team in the CL than the one Spurs have put in....


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Struggle to think of a worse first half performance from any English team in the CL than the one Spurs have put in....
		
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I remember many saying United absolutely should have got Conte. Personally, I had no enthusiasm for that potential appointment, and as it stands, delighted we never rushed into appointing him.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 26, 2022)

Should be 2-2 in Amsterdam.
How has Nunez missed that?


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## Tashyboy (Oct 26, 2022)

That spurs disallowed goal looked a bit iffy with the 3 min VAR check.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 26, 2022)

Atletico, Barca and Juve miss out on the last 16 😳


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2022)

Was watching the live Champions League Goals program, instead of any single match.

Mental finish in Spurs and Athletico games. I maybe didn't get all the views, as so many things happening at once. However, Kane looked square or behind the ball when played in, so was surprised when offside was given. At any rate, I'm guessing if defender gets an intentional touch while trying to clear ball, offside can still be given these days?

In the Atletico game, seemed harsh handball was given after final whistle. Didn't look like an outstretched arm. Still, delighted Atletico missed the penalty, hit bar on rebound and then their player blocked it on line on 3rd attempt.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 26, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Atletico, Barca and Juve miss out on the last 16 😳
		
Click to expand...

Going to make the Europa League more interesting.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 26, 2022)

So which was the better VAR finish, Spurs or Atletico? 🤣🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Was watching the live Champions League Goals program, instead of any single match.e h
E
Mental finish in Spurs and Athletico games. I maybe didn't get all the views, as so many things happening at once. However, Kane looked square or behind the ball when played in, so was surprised when offside was given. At any rate, I'm guessing if defender gets an intentional touch while trying to clear ball, offside can still be given these days?

In the Atletico game, seemed harsh handball was given after final whistle. Didn't look like an outstretched arm. Still, delighted Atletico missed the penalty, hit bar on rebound and then their player blocked it on line on 3rd attempt.
		
Click to expand...

Must have been for the original cross before he headed it.
Headed it backwards and it came off the defender so Kane  can’t be offside.
They didn’t show the full clip though.
Took a very long time as well.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Must have been for the original cross before he headed it.
Headed it backwards and it came off the defender so Kane  can’t be offside.
They didn’t show the full clip though.
Took a very long time as well.
		
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The player who headed it back across was definitely onside, by miles. 

It was given for Kane, as the highlights after showed the lines drawn in. Absolutely impossible to tell where lines were drawn from, and millimetres in it. Also took them over 3 minutes to decide.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The player who headed it back across was definitely onside, by miles.

It was given for Kane, as the highlights after showed the lines drawn in. Absolutely impossible to tell where lines were drawn from, and millimetres in it. Also took them over 3 minutes to decide.
		
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Can’t see how Kane could be offside.
He headed it backwards and it hit the defender and went to Kane.
Only seen it once .
VAR ???


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Must have been for the original cross before he headed it.
Headed it backwards and it came off the defender so Kane  can’t be offside.
They didn’t show the full clip though.
Took a very long time as well.
		
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The direction in which the ball is played is not relevant under the current laws.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t see how Kane could be offside.
He headed it backwards and it hit the defender and went to Kane.
Only seen it once .
VAR ???
		
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It doesn't matter if ball goes forwards or backwards. Player is in an offside position if they are ahead of the ball.when it is played. So, even though it doesn't look like it, the lines they drew say Kane was ahead of the ball. 

It deflected off defender, which brought it into.his path. Seeing that bit again, defender knew nothing about it, so.I guess you can say they had no.intent to play the ball. 

I suspect it wouldn't be given in PL as they seem to have a better tolerance now.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t see how Kane could be offside.
*He headed it backwards* and it hit the defender and went to Kane.
Only seen it once .
VAR ???
		
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Played forward as you & I remember it has been removed in the re-write;

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

*2. Offside offence*

*A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched** by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball

or

gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
been deliberately saved by any opponent

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent. 

A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 26, 2022)

Apparently Kane was in front of the ball so he’s offside even though the ball was headed backwards.
That’s a new one to me .


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Apparently Kane was in front of the ball so he’s offside even though the ball was headed backwards.
That’s a new one to me .
		
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There’s a few bits in there that make it hard to fathom. The old law had its faults but was much simpler to understand.


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## 4LEX (Oct 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I remember many saying United absolutely should have got Conte. Personally, I had no enthusiasm for that potential appointment, and as it stands, delighted we never rushed into appointing him.
		
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He's a top manager and has done really well with the lack of quality in the Spurs squad. To get Top 4 last season, currently sit 3rd and top the CL group is impressive. From the keeper, defence and midfield theres a huge lack of ability. Spurs have 4 top class players and when 2 are injured they're going to struggle. But that first half was like LVG at Utd a few years ago!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			There’s a few bits in there that make it hard to fathom. The old law had its faults but was much simpler to understand.
		
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Yes but why the change I wonder?
What was wrong with the old rule.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 27, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but why the change I wonder?
What was wrong with the old rule.
		
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If we could fathom how FIFA/UEFA/The FA think we wouldn’t be hanging around on here, we’d be off spending our fortune. 🤣🤣


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Atletico, Barca and Juve miss out on the last 16 😳
		
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Got to be City’s this time?
I’ve had a small bet on Napoli.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 27, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes *but why the change I wonder?*
What was wrong with the old rule.
		
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VAR. 

Most changes have been made since VAR came in and instead of changing the VAR system they've changed the rules to suit VAR.

Like the handball rule🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️


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## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It doesn't matter if ball goes forwards or backwards. Player is in an offside position if they are ahead of the ball.when it is played. So, even though it doesn't look like it, the lines they drew say Kane was ahead of the ball.

It deflected off defender, which brought it into.his path. Seeing that bit again, defender knew nothing about it, so.I guess you can say they had no.intent to play the ball.

I suspect it wouldn't be given in PL as they seem to have a better tolerance now.
		
Click to expand...

I'm done with it now. If that was offside then I don't understand the offside rule anymore. Kane looked to be behind the ball, behind the player heading it, both onside from original cross. He seemed to be onside by every single measure you could think of, AND the defender played it to him as well which has certainly cancelled other offside decisions in the last year or two. I'm absolutely stumped with it all, and it puts me off watching football more every time it happens.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm done with it now. If that was offside then I don't understand the offside rule anymore. Kane looked to be behind the ball, behind the player heading it, both onside from original cross. He seemed to be onside by every single measure you could think of, AND the defender played it to him as well which has certainly cancelled other offside decisions in the last year or two. I'm absolutely stumped with it all, and it puts me off watching football more every time it happens.
		
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It was the classic goal that many said VAR would destroy. Last seconds, sees Spurs through, mad celebrations from players, fans, manager and staff. Then, 4 minutes of thinking time by VAR, who were obviously uncertain as to where they were drawing lines, thus couldn't quickly decide it was offside, then goal disallowed.

It is absolute rubbish, especially when VAR make decisions that still offer zero clarity. Glenn Hoddle (yes, he has Spurs bias) reckoned many fans would stop coming to games, and just watch on TV instead, due to VAR.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It doesn't matter if ball goes forwards or backwards. Player is in an offside position if they are ahead of the ball.when it is played. So, even though it doesn't look like it, the lines they drew say Kane was ahead of the ball.

It deflected off defender, which brought it into.his path. Seeing that bit again, defender knew nothing about it, so.I guess you can say they had no.intent to play the ball.

I suspect it wouldn't be given in PL as they seem to have a *better tolerance now.*

Click to expand...

Thicker lines 🤔😳😁


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## Tashyboy (Oct 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm done with it now. If that was offside then I don't understand the offside rule anymore. Kane looked to be behind the ball, behind the player heading it, both onside from original cross. He seemed to be onside by every single measure you could think of, AND the defender played it to him as well which has certainly cancelled other offside decisions in the last year or two. I'm absolutely stumped with it all, *and it puts me off watching football more every time it happens.*

Click to expand...



Welcome to my world. Got to feel for the fans at the ground who had over 4 mins to wait for a “ clear and obvious error” not knowing what was going on.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 27, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Got to be City’s this time?
I’ve had a small bet on Napoli.
		
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To be honest am not so sure. Some of the football I have seen from City this year has been the best ever. Some has been complete and utter rammel. It’s now a KO comp and it now depends which City turn up. 🤔😳😖


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			VAR.

Most changes have been made since VAR came in and instead of changing the VAR system they've changed the rules to suit VAR.

Like the handball rule🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️
		
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I wonder why though.?
It’s not like it needed any change.
Being offside in relation to the ball just dosnt make sense. Most strikers are always in front of the ball.
It’s usually the last defender. Bizzare.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Thicker lines 🤔😳😁
		
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Thicker VAR officials.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Got to be City’s this time?
I’ve had a small bet on Napoli.
		
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PL teams are scared of City.
CL teams are not.
It’s shows how good City are at defending ( not very)


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## Swango1980 (Oct 27, 2022)

I was definitely hasty in calling Rangers "awful" the other week.

Just read on the BBC website that they still have one more chance, next week, to avoid having the worst group-stage performance in the history of the competition. So, they could still prove me wrong


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## fundy (Oct 27, 2022)

As bad as weve been tonight it seems kind of irrelevant when you hear Pablo Mari is one of 5 people stabbed in a mall in Milan. What is wrong with the world these days


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## Slime (Oct 27, 2022)

Garnacho starting tonight, I think he's going to be a real star.


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## Slime (Oct 27, 2022)

Garnacho looking lively.
Ronaldo misses a sitter.
Bruno is a tart.


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## Slime (Oct 27, 2022)




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## Slime (Oct 27, 2022)




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## Slime (Oct 27, 2022)




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## pauljames87 (Oct 27, 2022)

Good professional win, top of the group 

But more positives 

90 mins for ogbonna in his return from serious knee injury 

Aguard , 70 mins after his injury in summer. He looks class. Full of pace


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## 4LEX (Oct 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			To be honest am not so sure. Some of the football I have seen from City this year has been the best ever. Some has been complete and utter rammel. It’s now a KO comp and it now depends which City turn up. 🤔😳😖
		
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You'll go close as usual but I can see a repeat of the Liverpool away performance happening in the latter stages of the CL. Dominate the game, overpass, miss chances and get done on the counter. Or Mahrez will be allowed to take a penalty and miss it 

The level of the top teams in the CL is probably the weakest it's been for a few years. Bayern aren't anything special, ditto Liverpool and there's no chance of PSG cutting it over two legs. Some big sides like Barca, Juve and Atletico are all out. Toss up between you and Real for me with Liverpool and Bayern outside shouts IMO.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 28, 2022)

4LEX said:



			You'll go close as usual but I can see a repeat of the Liverpool away performance happening in the latter stages of the CL. Dominate the game, overpass, miss chances and get done on the counter. Or Mahrez will be allowed to take a penalty and miss it 

The level of the top teams in the CL is probably the weakest it's been for a few years. Bayern aren't anything special, ditto Liverpool and there's no chance of PSG cutting it over two legs. Some big sides like Barca, Juve and Atletico are all out. Toss up between you and Real for me with Liverpool and Bayern outside shouts IMO.
		
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Yup my thoughts exactly, the World Cup could play a part with key players coming back with season long injuries.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Yup my thoughts exactly, the World Cup could play a part with key players coming back with season long injuries.
		
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This world cup is perfect for west ham 

We have about 7 players going but can put out a decent 11 and are arranging friendlys 

Team could easily be 

--------------------fabainski 

Ben Johnson Dawson, ogbonna Emerson 

------------------downes soucek 

Benrahma -----------fornals--- cornet 

----------------------scamacca 

With a bench including 
Antonio 
Zouma 
Cresswell 
Coufal 
Lanzini 

Bowen might not get the call either 

Imagine after the world cup our team will be pretty much ready to go 

Aguard is likely to go to world cup but hasn't played until last night so he won't be burnt out


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584977484755656704
How did this even happen? 
😂😂😂😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Oct 28, 2022)

Good news for football managers now. It appears they can shout and scream at officials now. They won't escape a red card by the intimidated referee, but as long as they apologise afterwards, they'll escape a touchline ban.

Can't wait to see the next PL lose his rag and get sent off. I wonder if the same rules apply to players now as well?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Good news for football managers now. It appears they can shout and scream at officials now. They won't escape a red card by the intimidated referee, but as long as they apologise afterwards, they'll escape a touchline ban.

Can't wait to see the next PL lose his rag and get sent off. I wonder if the same rules apply to players now as well?
		
Click to expand...

A £30k fine was a tad excessive though.


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## fundy (Oct 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			A £30k fine was a tad excessive though.
		
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missing a zero......


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## Swango1980 (Oct 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			A £30k fine was a tad excessive though.
		
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Yeah, he is going to struggle to keep warm this winter, although I'm sure Liverpool FC might help him cover the costs


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## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, he is going to struggle to keep warm this winter, although I'm sure Liverpool FC might help him cover the costs
		
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It's all relative. £30k is excessive imo. 

Liverpool FC will not be paying his fine.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			A £30k fine was a tad excessive though.
		
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Should get one every time he does this 😖😂


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It's all relative. £30k is excessive imo.

Liverpool FC will not be paying his fine.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah it’s all relative.
It’s probably about 10% of his weekly wage 🤷‍♂️


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## pokerjoke (Oct 29, 2022)

Hojbjord interview on football focus
Goosebumps 
Comes across as a quality guy


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## Swango1980 (Oct 29, 2022)

I've heard that Martinez was down for about 5 minutes after getting a knee to the head. He was then allowed to play on. 10 minutes later he needs to come off, and concussion substitution used.

I'm guessing it is pointless asking anyone to tell a player they must come off, they rarely do. You'd think if someone was down for 5 minutes after a blow to.the head, that would be a good sign to get him off before play is restarted. Bet they'll be all over that on MOTD


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## Golfmmad (Oct 29, 2022)

It's fitting that De-Zerbis first win today and Potter's first loss was at the Amex Stadium.
Karma for us Brighton fans! 🥂😃


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## pauljames87 (Oct 29, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It's fitting that De-Zerbis first win today and Potter's first loss was at the Amex Stadium.
Karma for us Brighton fans! 🥂😃
		
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Maybe proves there is something wrong at Chelsea and it's not the manager....


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## GG26 (Oct 29, 2022)

Have to hand it to de Bruyne, that was some quality free kick this afternoon. We normally blame the defence when one goes in, but we all just commented on how good the goal was.  We weren’t convinced there was a foul on Grealish for the free kick though!


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## fundy (Oct 29, 2022)

Tarkowski has just wrestled his man to the ground via a headlock at a corner, VAR not interested lol


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## Rlburnside (Oct 29, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It's fitting that De-Zerbis first win today and Potter's first loss was at the Amex Stadium.
Karma for us Brighton fans! 🥂😃
		
Click to expand...

Never seen results today Chris but that post has cheered me up 👍


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 29, 2022)

Scholes,Lampard,Gerrard?

KDB better than all 3?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 29, 2022)

Watched the England rugby today.
They know how to do VAR. I was very impressed with the reffing and VAR.
Never thought I would say that.!
You can hear the conversation between VAR and the ref. So can the crowd.
No hassle from the players on the ref.
The PL could learn a lot from the rugby model.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Tarkowski has just wrestled his man to the ground via a headlock at a corner, VAR not interested lol
		
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Seems to happen frequently at corners. How bad does it have to get before they actually give a penalty for one of those?


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2022)

GG26 said:



			Have to hand it to de Bruyne, that was some quality free kick this afternoon. We normally blame the defence when one goes in, but we all just commented on how good the goal was.  We weren’t convinced there was a foul on Grealish for the free kick though!
		
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Unfortunately it was a soft foul and it’s one that Grealish gets a shed load of. One of the reasons he was brought in. Thing is he was going nowhere.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 29, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Scholes,Lampard,Gerrard?

KDB better than all 3?
		
Click to expand...

Unquestionably


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 29, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586431824041050114
It’s as if they like to give teams a goal start,quite comical.
Should definitely back them to come from behind.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 29, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Unquestionably
		
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He’s unreal.
Makes the game look easy.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I've heard that Martinez was down for about 5 minutes after getting a knee to the head. He was then allowed to play on. 10 minutes later he needs to come off, and concussion substitution used.

I'm guessing it is pointless asking anyone to tell a player they must come off, they rarely do. You'd think if someone was down for 5 minutes after a blow to.the head, that would be a good sign to get him off before play is restarted. Bet they'll be all over that on MOTD
		
Click to expand...

Was disgraceful from the Villa medics. Keeper took a clear knee to the side of the head from Mings at pace....5 minutes on the floor he looked all over the place. Villa medics should have had him off the park for his own safety. Medics responsibility is to the health and wellbeing of the player....not to the number of points in the league table.

Having chosen not to have taken him off at the first time of asking Villa should not have been able to replace him with a concussion substitute...should have been part of the regular 5 subs.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 29, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Was disgraceful from the Villa medics. Keeper took a clear knee to the side of the head from Mings at pace....5 minutes on the floor he looked all over the place. Villa medics should have had him off the park for his own safety. Medics responsibility is to the health and wellbeing of the player....not to the number of points in the league table.

Having chosen not to have taken him off at the first time of asking Villa should not have been able to replace him with a concussion substitute...should have been part of the regular 5 subs.
		
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Good point, I agree. If a club are happy to risk the welfare of a player to try and get a result, they shouldn't get the concussion sub when the player is struggling after.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 29, 2022)




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## Pin-seeker (Oct 29, 2022)

All Leeds aren’t we? 😂😂
MOT!!!!!


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## fundy (Oct 29, 2022)

cracking effort from Leeds, some result for them that


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## BiMGuy (Oct 29, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			All Leeds aren’t we? 😂😂
MOT!!!!!
		
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We are indeed!!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 29, 2022)

Well done to Leeds.
One of them games, some bad finishing from both sides.
We have major problems in midfield.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well done to Leeds.
One of them games, some bad finishing from both sides.
We have major problems in midfield.
		
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I think if Milner is getting a Job in the starting 11 there is serious problems in the midfield.👍


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 44970

Should get one every time he does this 😖😂
		
Click to expand...

He wont of done a lot of that tonight 😳


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## fundy (Oct 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think if Milner is getting a Job in the starting 11 there is serious problems in the midfield.👍
		
Click to expand...


didnt start, came on for TAA with 10 mins left. 2nd parts still correct


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 29, 2022)

No more talk of VVD never having lost a game at Anfield.


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## 4LEX (Oct 29, 2022)

Lids Lids Lids

Superb advert for the league - brilliant game. Loved despite how useless Bamford is he actually set the winner up with a poor touch and got an assist


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			didnt start, came on for TAA with 10 mins left. 2nd parts still correct 

Click to expand...

Loved Milner at City and was honestly gutted to see him go. He was a steady 7/10 every week and would play anywhere. But his finer days are behind him. Really surprised he is still doing some kind of a job. His fitness must be incredible.


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## Orikoru (Oct 29, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Scholes,Lampard,Gerrard?

KDB better than all 3?
		
Click to expand...

The passing of Scholes, the goalscoring of Lampard and the work-rate of Gerrard all rolled into one. Ridiculous player.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think if Milner is getting a Job in the starting 11 there is serious problems in the midfield.👍
		
Click to expand...

How him and Jones let him get the cross in for the second goal needs looking at.
Midfield is ok going forward but defending they are crap.
Leeds just walked through us all night.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Lids Lids Lids

Superb advert for the league - brilliant game. Loved despite how useless Bamford is he actually set the winner up with a poor touch and got an assist 

Click to expand...

Week after week the Prem league never stops to surprise and long May it continue. I Think one of Liverpools biggest problems now is the fear factor has gone. They are still doing it in Europe but they are in danger so sacrificing a top four in the prem for full concentration on the champs league. The World Cup might not come soon enough.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Loved Milner at City and was honestly gutted to see him go. He was a steady 7/10 every week and would play anywhere. But his finer days are behind him. Really surprised he is still doing some kind of a job. His fitness must be incredible.
		
Click to expand...

Well, he is "only" 36 which is nothing these days. And, is he not a player who is rotated in and out of the side?

I think most players at that level and age usually still have decent fitness. It is the injuries that tend to become more of an issue, and the pace.


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## BrianM (Oct 29, 2022)

Leeds were superb tonight, the work rate was phenomenal.
If they play like that week in week out they will be just fine.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The passing of Scholars, the goalscoring of Lampard and the work-rate of Gerrard all rolled into one. Ridiculous player.
		
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Its odd actually watching him play live. He just seems to glide when running. City have a player called Cole Palmer he really does remind me of KDB but without the long pass game.


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## fundy (Oct 29, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Leeds were superb tonight, the work rate was phenomenal.
If they play like that week in week out they will be just fine.
		
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they definitely seem better against the big sides lately, they were the better side against Arsenal the other week and beat Chelsea earlier on too


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, he is "only" 36 which is nothing these days. And, is he not a player who is rotated in and out of the side?

I think most players at that level and age usually still have decent fitness. It is the injuries that tend to become more of an issue, and the pace.
		
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One of the quotes I have read re Leeds was the work rate and effort they put in. When Liverpool were awesome they had that work rate with the obvious world class quality. Milner is ok but not for 90 mins. The Liverpool team looks jaded. I remember the talk about who gelled Liverpool together, when Henderson was out he was really missed. It seems they now miss Mane. Not sure how they can fix what is broke.


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## 4LEX (Oct 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Week after week the Prem league never stops to surprise and long May it continue. I Think one of Liverpools biggest problems now is the fear factor has gone. They are still doing it in Europe but they are in danger so sacrificing a top four in the prem for full concentration on the champs league. The World Cup might not come soon enough.
		
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Liverpool have just been incredibly unlucky their peak under Klopp happened at the same time as Pep at City. Literally any other era they have 4-5 titles.

I still think they'll end up in the Top 4. Obvious issues with the midfield and Nunez looks a bit clown like but some serious quality in the squad. Diaz has been a huge miss.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool have just been incredibly unlucky their peak under Klopp happened at the same time as Pep at City. Literally any other era they have 4-5 titles.

I still think they'll end up in the Top 4. Obvious issues with the midfield and Nunez looks a bit clown like but some serious quality in the squad. Diaz has been a huge miss.
		
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I think the transfer window after the World Cup could be interesting 🤔👍


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 29, 2022)

Anyone see the Charlton v Ipswich result today? Ipswich 2-0 up after 62 minutes. Charlton score twice to bring it back to 2-2 after 90 minutes. Ipswich scored twice in added time after 91 and 94 minutes. Charlton then scored after 96 and 99 minutes to make it 4-4.


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## Aztecs27 (Oct 29, 2022)

Literally cannot count on Liverpool for anything. Knobs


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## 4LEX (Oct 29, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Anyone see the Charlton v Ipswich result today? Ipswich 2-0 up after 62 minutes. Charlton score twice to bring it back to 2-2 after 90 minutes. Ipswich scored twice in added time after 91 and 94 minutes. Charlton then scored after 96 and 99 minutes to make it 4-4.

View attachment 44984

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I saw it was 3-4 in injury time but that's mental. Better than Cadiz v Atletico which was 2-0 after 85, then 2-2 after 90 and Atletico miss two great chances to win it before Cadiz got a 97th minute winner!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool have just been incredibly unlucky their peak under Klopp happened at the same time as Pep at City. Literally any other era they have 4-5 titles.

I still think they'll end up in the Top 4. Obvious issues with the midfield and Nunez looks a bit clown like but some serious quality in the squad. Diaz has been a huge miss.
		
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Yes I agree.
But why is Nunez playing so wide.
He had some good chances tonight and keeper was excellent.
He looks out of place on the left.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool have just been incredibly unlucky their peak under Klopp happened at the same time as Pep at City. Literally any other era they have 4-5 titles.

I still think they'll end up in the Top 4. Obvious issues with the midfield and Nunez looks a bit clown like but some serious quality in the squad. Diaz has been a huge miss.
		
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Could be said about a lot of teams tho.
Wenger v Fergie?
You’re always going to have a rival 🤷‍♂️


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## nickjdavis (Oct 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the transfer window after the World Cup could be interesting 🤔👍
		
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Lot of players will be digging out their atlases to find out where Newcastle is.

Then heading straight to Amazon to buy some woolly gloves.


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## Slime (Oct 29, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Scholes,Lampard,Gerrard?

KDB better than all 3?
		
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No.


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## Ian_George (Oct 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool have just been incredibly unlucky their peak under Klopp happened at the same time as Pep at City. Literally any other era they have 4-5 titles.

I still think they'll end up in the Top 4. Obvious issues with the midfield and Nunez looks a bit clown like but some serious quality in the squad. Diaz has been a huge miss.
		
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The question/s I'd ask is 'Why did they peak/Why have they peaked?'!
I agree that their title count would have been greater without the competition from City, but I don't believe either was excessively restricted by regulations and, for a neutral, it makes for a much more interesting competition!
I strongly suspect there are non-playing issues involved in their poor performance so far this year. Losing Mane has been a big problem imo.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 30, 2022)

We were absolute rubbish (Mod Edit) tonight, made Leeds look like Brazil peak '70.

Irrespective of injuries etc those 3 substitutions were madness. Nothing changed.

It was like head butting a wall for 60 mins then sending 2 players on to do exactly the same for the next 30🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

This squad and manager have plenty in the bank for me but theyve still gotta take responsibility for that tonight, Klopp more so.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 30, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
But why is Nunez playing so wide.
He had some good chances tonight and keeper was excellent.
He looks out of place on the left.
		
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Nunez wasnt playing wide, if he was he would've had more of an impact.

It was a 4-3-1-2, Salah and Nunez were the "2 up top".


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## Stuart_C (Oct 30, 2022)

Ian_George said:



			The question/s I'd ask is 'Why did they peak/Why have they peaked?'!
I agree that their title count would have been greater without the competition from City, but I don't believe either was excessively restricted by regulations and, for a neutral, it makes for a much more interesting competition!
I strongly suspect there are non-playing issues involved in their poor performance so far this year. *Losing Mane has been a big problem imo*.
		
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Disagree. 

The problems are further behind.


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## Beezerk (Oct 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Disagree. 

The problems are further behind.
		
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What’s the solution in your opinion?
The whole team just looks lazy at the minute, specially in defence like they’re just not switched on.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 30, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			What’s the solution in your opinion?
The whole team just looks lazy at the minute, specially in defence like they’re just not switched on.
		
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2 solutions for me.

Short term - revert to type, stick to what we've done so well previously, get back to 4-3-3 with the best players available and stick with it. Even if we have to drop 10yards as a unit then so be it. Take the knocks in the road.

We were a well oiled machine with a style of play that suited what we had so changing formation AND patterns of play has been tough. 

We haven't got a really strong squad in certain areas and these recent injuries have shown that. 

Long term - improve the squad with more quality and ability. Replace older/injury prone players quickly and not carry them, (ox,keita,milner,henderson)

I dont think they're Lazy or not switched on. It seems every mistake or error is being punished. I also think last season took a lot out of them mentally. It's not often you see teams going for 4 trophies playing maximum amount of games possible.

TAA's head is absolutely shot. It's obvious the England situation has affected him. He's not a bad defender generally but i think his recent form has been poor and he's making silly mistakes.


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## Ian_George (Oct 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			...
The problems are further behind.
		
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Perhaps - well, indeed!. But that should be solve-able in training The loss of Mane has still been and will continue to be a big problem imo!


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Anyone see the Charlton v Ipswich result today? Ipswich 2-0 up after 62 minutes. Charlton score twice to bring it back to 2-2 after 90 minutes. Ipswich scored twice in added time after 91 and 94 minutes. Charlton then scored after 96 and 99 minutes to make it 4-4.

View attachment 44984

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Wonder how many Charlton fans walked on 90 + 4 to beat the rush...


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## Tashyboy (Oct 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			2 solutions for me.

*Short term - revert to type, stick to what we've done so well previously, get back to 4-3-3 with the best players available and stick with it. Even if we have to drop 10yards as a unit then so be it. Take the knocks in the road.*

We were a well oiled machine with a style of play that suited what we had so changing formation AND patterns of play has been tough.

We haven't got a really strong squad in certain areas and these recent injuries have shown that.

Long term - improve the squad with more quality and ability. Replace older/injury prone players quickly and not carry them, (ox,keita,milner,henderson)

I dont think they're Lazy or not switched on. It seems every mistake or error is being punished. I also think last season took a lot out of them mentally. It's not often you see teams going for 4 trophies playing maximum amount of games possible.

TAA's head is absolutely shot. It's obvious the England situation has affected him. He's not a bad defender generally but i think his recent form has been poor and he's making silly mistakes.
		
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This I think solves one problem that dropping 10 yards would help stop a ball over the top which Liverpool are prone to. But dropping back to 4-3-3 am not 100% sure it would solve the problem. Reason I say that is teams are used to 4-3-3 and set up like Leicester did v City yesterday 11 behind the ball. Teams have set up to Defend against City and Liverpool and Klopp like Pep has tried to change it.Without a great deal of success. Yet in Europe Liverpool are doing the business.Do they play the same system?


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This I think solves one problem that dropping 10 yards would help stop a ball over the top which Liverpool are prone to. But dropping back to 4-3-3 am not 100% sure it would solve the problem. Reason I say that is teams are used to 4-3-3 and set up like Leicester did v City yesterday 11 behind the ball. Teams have set up to Defend against City and Liverpool and Klopp like Pep has tried to change it.Without a great deal of success. Yet in Europe Liverpool are doing the business.Do they play the same system?
		
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Doing the business against Rangers and an Ajax side that only play one way which suits Liverpool too. Dont forget they got utterly stuffed by a very good Napoli side in the other game. Shame neither side need anything from the return fixture and are likely to not play full strength sides


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## Stuart_C (Oct 30, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This I think solves one problem that dropping 10 yards would help stop a ball over the top which Liverpool are prone to. But dropping back to 4-3-3 am not 100% sure it would solve the problem. Reason I say that is teams are used to 4-3-3 and set up like Leicester did v City yesterday 11 behind the ball. Teams have set up to Defend against City and Liverpool and Klopp like Pep has tried to change it.Without a great deal of success. Yet in Europe Liverpool are doing the business.Do they play the same system?
		
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The 4-3-3 system has worked, they're coached to the nth degree to play to it amd they've bought players to play that system. Its tried and tested.

Klopp has tried to change it during a busy schedule. Playing sat/wed/sun doesnt give much time to implement a massive change in style of play

At the minute we're all over the gaff and it needs sorting ASAP.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Nunez wasnt playing wide, if he was he would've had more of an impact.

It was a 4-3-1-2, Salah and Nunez were the "2 up top".
		
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Your probably right being at the game you see the formation better off the ball.
But Nunez looked wide to me a lot .
We seemed to be playing a false nine again with Firmino.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Anyone see the Charlton v Ipswich result today? Ipswich 2-0 up after 62 minutes. Charlton score twice to bring it back to 2-2 after 90 minutes. Ipswich scored twice in added time after 91 and 94 minutes. Charlton then scored after 96 and 99 minutes to make it 4-4.

View attachment 44984

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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586644326112698371
Injury time video if anyone is interested.


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586644326112698371
Injury time video if anyone is interested.
		
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Cracking viewing, gotta love the home town commentary at the end 

One of my mates was waiting on Ipswich for his ACCA, should I send him the video lol


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Cracking viewing, gotta love the home town commentary at the end 

One of my mates was waiting on Ipswich for his ACCA, *should I send him the video lol*

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The very definition of a rhetorical question...


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## Tashyboy (Oct 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Anyone see the Charlton v Ipswich result today? Ipswich 2-0 up after 62 minutes. Charlton score twice to bring it back to 2-2 after 90 minutes. Ipswich scored twice in added time after 91 and 94 minutes. Charlton then scored after 96 and 99 minutes to make it 4-4.

View attachment 44984

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I tell you what I like about that, it’s 4-3 to Ipswich and number four runs 40-50 yard to make the keeper pick up the ball.he actually runs past a Charlton player who has lost interest. Number 4 scores the equaliser. Brilliant.


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## BrianM (Oct 30, 2022)

Forest crashing down back to Earth 😂


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## fundy (Oct 30, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Forest crashing down back to Earth 😂
		
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cant play Liverpool every week 

about time we finally put a side to bed in a game, and good to see Reiss Nelson amongst the goals, shame it took an injury to Saka for Arteta to give him a shot


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## pauljames87 (Oct 30, 2022)

What a rubbish game. Each team just wanted to pass to each other 

Moment of quality decided it with that header 

How on earth did fabainski injure himself heading a ball??

Degea at the end ... What a performance from him


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## Slime (Oct 30, 2022)

Unfortunately I missed the game, hopefully Maguire had a good game.
Also pleased for Rashford for getting his 100th goal.
I also can't believe that De Gea is probably going to miss the World Cup!


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## Fade and Die (Oct 30, 2022)

Same old...Same old I'm afraid!

Set up not to lose....go one down then start playing…Same against the Dippers the other week. 

Then need to score just to draw....forget about winning!

Sad thing is we can actually live with these teams....Moyes is just too scared to have a proper go at them. Look at his record against the 'big' teams particularly away..... its atrocious at best!!


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## pauljames87 (Oct 30, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Same old...Same old I'm afraid!

Set up not to lose....go one down then start playing…Same against the Dippers the other week.

Then need to score just to draw....forget about winning!

Sad thing is we can actually live with these teams....Moyes is just too scared to have a proper go at them. Look at his record against the 'big' teams particularly away..... its atrocious at best!!
		
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Whilst his subs improved us I didn't get some of them 

When Antonio came in. No you don't take scamacca off at all. Take soucek or Downes off. Push benny into attacking midfield and antonio left wing 

Then if you go for it last 15 mins you can go 2 up top... Rather than oh my second striker is back on the bench unusable 

Thought scamacca was playing some lovely balls in just needed Antonio to run onto them


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Whilst his subs improved us I didn't get some of them

When Antonio came in. No you don't take scamacca off at all. Take soucek or Downes off. Push benny into attacking midfield and antonio left wing

Then if you go for it last 15 mins you can go 2 up top... Rather than oh my second striker is back on the bench unusable

Thought scamacca was playing some lovely balls in just needed Antonio to run onto them
		
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Wasn't the Scamacca decision partly due to the fact he'd already been booked and then had that high foot challenge on the Utd defender in the box? One more slightly mistimed challenge from him and you'd almost certainly have been down to 10 and facing a real struggle to try to get back into it.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Wasn't the Scamacca decision partly due to the fact he'd already been booked and then had that high foot challenge on the Utd defender in the box? One more slightly mistimed challenge from him and you'd almost certainly have been down to 10 and facing a real struggle to try to get back into it.
		
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Possible, I watched with 3 mancs my goodness they were trying to convince it was wreckless

Both players only eye for ball
5ft 9 defender lowers his head 
6 ft 5 striker raised foot

Both tried to win ball

With 7 inch difference in height it was only going to end one way 

Nothing dangerous about it


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Possible, I watched with 3 mancs my goodness they were trying to convince it was wreckless

Both players only eye for ball
5ft 9 defender lowers his head
6 ft 5 striker raised foot

Both tried to win ball

With 7 inch difference in height it was only going to end one way

Nothing dangerous about it
		
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I agree. It's a freekick to Utd for the high foot but nothing more than that. Scamacca tried to flick it with the outside of his foot and didn't deliberately go for the defender or raise his studs. The problem for Scamacca, and West Ham, is the response from the other Utd players and putting the idea in the refs head that he's got away with one there. That's not a criticism of Utd as any team would've done the same. I think Moyes had to take him off just in case of one more slightly mistimed challenge.


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## Bdill93 (Oct 31, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			What a difference a few months make eh. You was pro Gerrard not so long ago, what's changed?

I see Mings has had another shocker last night😉
		
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Yeah he lost his assistant and lost any clue what he was doing. 

Ill back any manager till they prove they're arse.. Like any football fan would. 

If you had to witness weekly the absolute shower of poo that we have had under Gerrard you'd understand what I mean. 4 wins in a calendar year is a joke for a team with our level of investment.

Newcastle have gone from relegation zone to current top 4 in the same time frame. 

Unai Emerys Claret and Blue ARMYYYYYYY


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## Swango1980 (Oct 31, 2022)

Slime said:



			Unfortunately I missed the game, hopefully Maguire had a good game.
Also pleased for Rashford for getting his 100th goal.
I also can't believe that De Gea is probably going to miss the World Cup!
		
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I think Maguire grew into the game. Made a few mistimes challenges early on, and seemed out of position once or twice in 1st half. He was also ultra ultra safe when playing out from back, and seemed uneasy playing ball forward (continually passing sideways to Martinez, who needed to take responsibility to play ball forward).

However, understandable. The criticism and mocking he has received over the last year must play on his mind, and last thing he wants is to come into a side that has been a lot more solid, and mess up. 

Confidence grew in second half. Strong in the air and some good challenges. Blocked an almost certain goal as well. Element of luck, but he was in a position to get in the way.

Martinez is looking like an absolute giant at the moment though. I think he must boost all the defence around him, great attitude. Future captain surely? Dalot is a completely different player this season.

Casemiro is also a class act. When Fred and McTomminay played his position, they always played with a sense of panic and desperation, and got pulled all over the place. Casemiro just calmly gets around the pitch and seems to do the job beautifully. Lots of positives, Rashford and Dalot are different players this season. 

Never any expectations to really win anything when ten Hag arrived, just wanted to see progress. So far, I am very content.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 31, 2022)

Now that Pagbas gone it looks like Graeme Sourness as turned his attention to Martinez.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 31, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Now that Pagbas gone it looks like Graeme Sourness as turned his attention to Martinez.
		
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I heard that today. He didn't want to go back on his initial assessment, and then also threw in he doesn't think he is quick enough. And he still believes he will get found out (because no defenders over 6ft have ever made a mistake, or been out done by an attacker)

Every time United concede a header, you can almost guarantee Souness and Carragher will be desperate to tell the world Martinez is 5ft 9. Even if Martinez isn't marking the guy, it'll be his fault because of some reason like Utd having to make up for his short stature.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 31, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I heard that today. He didn't want to go back on his initial assessment, and then also threw in he doesn't think he is quick enough. And he still believes he will get found out (because no defenders over 6ft have ever made a mistake, or been out done by an attacker)

Every time United concede a header, you can almost guarantee Souness and Carragher will be desperate to tell the world Martinez is 5ft 9. Even if Martinez isn't marking the guy, it'll be his fault because of some reason like Utd having to make up for his short stature.
		
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He’s a terrible pundit imo.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 31, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			He’s a terrible pundit imo.
		
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Yeah, not great. Although he had some way to catch up with the appalling Martin Keown.


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## 4LEX (Oct 31, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think Maguire grew into the game. Made a few mistimes challenges early on, and seemed out of position once or twice in 1st half. He was also ultra ultra safe when playing out from back, and seemed uneasy playing ball forward (continually passing sideways to Martinez, who needed to take responsibility to play ball forward).

However, understandable. The criticism and mocking he has received over the last year must play on his mind, and last thing he wants is to come into a side that has been a lot more solid, and mess up.

Confidence grew in second half. Strong in the air and some good challenges. Blocked an almost certain goal as well. Element of luck, but he was in a position to get in the way.

Martinez is looking like an absolute giant at the moment though. I think he must boost all the defence around him, great attitude. Future captain surely? Dalot is a completely different player this season.

Casemiro is also a class act. When Fred and McTomminay played his position, they always played with a sense of panic and desperation, and got pulled all over the place. Casemiro just calmly gets around the pitch and seems to do the job beautifully. Lots of positives, Rashford and Dalot are different players this season.

Never any expectations to really win anything when ten Hag arrived, just wanted to see progress. So far, I am very content.
		
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Maguire was utter dross. It's sad to see him in the current state. All he did was stand in the way of one shot, the rest was terrible. He can barely put one foot infront of the other and looks lost. Real concerns if he starts in the World Cup, although the easy start might well help build his confidence up.

Martinez has been excellent of late and looks a real battler who would die for the shirt. I gave him some stick when it was deserved but he's done well. He's been found out against teams with physical strikers but at the moment theres only a handful in the league so he might still get away with it.

Eriksen has been absolutely superb, a class apart in that dreadful midfield.


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## 4LEX (Oct 31, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Now that Pagbas gone it looks like Graeme Sourness as turned his attention to Martinez.
		
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Was he right or wrong on Pogba?


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## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2022)

4LEX said:



*Maguire was utter dross.* It's sad to see him in the current state. All he did was stand in the way of one shot, the rest was terrible. He can barely put one foot infront of the other and looks lost. Real concerns if he starts in the World Cup, although the easy start might well help build his confidence up.

Martinez has been excellent of late and looks a real battler who would die for the shirt. I gave him some stick when it was deserved but he's done well. He's been found out against teams with physical strikers but at the moment theres only a handful in the league so he might still get away with it.

Eriksen has been absolutely superb, a class apart in that dreadful midfield.
		
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I thought he was rammel. My lad hit the nail On the head, how is he club captain with the players in that team


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## Slime (Oct 31, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Eriksen has been absolutely superb, a class apart in that dreadful midfield.
		
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Eriksen, Casemiro & Fernandes is a dreadful midfield?
You couldn't make it up!


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## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2022)

Slime said:



			Eriksen, Casemiro & Fernandes is a dreadful midfield?
You couldn't make it up!
		
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I think the thought process may be that with the three players you mentioned they should be bossing midfields. There not. Well not yet.


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## Slime (Oct 31, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the thought process may be that with the three players you mentioned they should be bossing midfields. There not. Well not yet.
		
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No, the thought process had deemed that midfield 'dreadful', when it is, in my and many others' opinion, not.


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## Swango1980 (Oct 31, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the thought process may be that with the three players you mentioned they should be bossing midfields. There not. Well not yet.
		
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Bossing midfields? After 2 or 3 months playing together, in a side getting used to a new managers ways. That is ambitious.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 1, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Was he right or wrong on Pogba? 

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Yes he was.
It got to the stage where he was slating him even when he didn’t play tho.
He LOVED talking about Pogba and blaming him for all the wrongs in the world 😂


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Bossing midfields? After 2 or 3 months playing together, in a side getting used to a new managers ways. That is ambitious.
		
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Which is why I said maybe in the future 👍


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Which is why I said maybe in the future 👍
		
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Indeed, but I think you were suggesting some might think they are a dreadful midfield because they are not yet bossing midfields.

Eriksen and Casemiro have been excellent, and Bruno is improving compared to his disappointing performances last year. Work in progress, certainly not dreadful. I guess the hardest thing is to develop a style of play good enough to start scoring more freely, United definitely not there yet. But, apart from a couple of occasions, look a lot more robust than before, which probably wouldn't have been too difficult


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Indeed, but I think you were suggesting some might think they are a dreadful midfield because they are not yet bossing midfields.

Eriksen and Casemiro have been excellent, and Bruno is improving compared to his disappointing performances last year. Work in progress, certainly not dreadful. I guess the hardest thing is to develop a style of play good enough to start scoring more freely, United definitely not there yet. But, apart from a couple of occasions, look a lot more robust than before, which probably wouldn't have been too difficult 

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If you look back through the last couple of pages, Alex mentioned the midfield has been dreadful yet Ericsson has been a class act. It was at that point I suggested with them three they should be bossing midfield. With the three players mentioned They should. But Chuck in McTominay and Fred. Well maybe that’s part of the problem. For the record I think Utd have been poor, but there are deffo signs of an improvement with a manager who’s appointment was questioned. ( not by me). Maguire being rammel and the distraction of Ronaldos antics not helping.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			If you look back through the last couple of pages, Alex mentioned the midfield has been dreadful yet Ericsson has been a class act. It was at that point I suggested with them three they should be bossing midfield. With the three players mentioned They should. But Chuck in McTominay and Fred. Well maybe that’s part of the problem. For the record I think Utd have been poor, but there are deffo signs of an improvement with a manager who’s appointment was questioned. ( not by me). Maguire being rammel and the distraction of Ronaldos antics not helping.
		
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Utd have certainly improved if late there’s no doubt about that.
The manager who I said I don’t think is the right one,has still got to convince me.
However he has impressed me on certain aspects,especially dropping big names,and he’s not afraid to upset people who don’t toe the line.
There’s no doubt some have to go,we have too many like for like players and constantly changing personal won’t help.
Long way to go,but the players seem to be more together atm.


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## Jensen (Nov 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, not great. Although he had some way to catch up with the appalling Martin Keown.
		
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I like Martin Keown on MOTD. He’s got great knowledge of the game


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Maguire was utter dross. It's sad to see him in the current state. All he did was stand in the way of one shot, the rest was terrible. He can barely put one foot infront of the other and looks lost. Real concerns if he starts in the World Cup, although the easy start might well help build his confidence up.
		
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I feel sorry for him in a way. Man Utd was such a bad move for him. He doesn't have the level of class you expect of a top six defender, but he was never likely to either. If he stayed at a club like Leicester, where he was more of a simple old-school centre back, I think people would still be rating him now and not abusing him to such a degree. He's tried to play like a Man Utd player, and justify the silly price tag, can't do it because he doesn't have the skill, and now he's been abused so much his confidence must be at an all-time zero. I think he'll have one of those careers where he'll maybe leave United in a year or two, go to a mid-table side where the spotlight isn't on him, and have a quiet resurgence as a decent solid centre back again in his early-to-mid thirties.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I feel sorry for him in a way. Man Utd was such a bad move for him. He doesn't have the level of class you expect of a top six defender, but he was never likely to either. If he stayed at a club like Leicester, where he was more of a simple old-school centre back, I think people would still be rating him now and not abusing him to such a degree. He's tried to play like a Man Utd player, and justify the silly price tag, can't do it because he doesn't have the skill, and now he's been abused so much his confidence must be at an all-time zero. I think he'll have one of those careers where he'll maybe leave United in a year or two, go to a mid-table side where the spotlight isn't on him, and have a quiet resurgence as a decent solid centre back again in his early-to-mid thirties.
		
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Would be an excellent replace for zouma as I've heard his knee is ledly king standard


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## Bdill93 (Nov 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I feel sorry for him in a way. Man Utd was such a bad move for him. He doesn't have the level of class you expect of a top six defender, but he was never likely to either. If he stayed at a club like Leicester, where he was more of a simple old-school centre back, I think people would still be rating him now and not abusing him to such a degree. He's tried to play like a Man Utd player, and justify the silly price tag, can't do it because he doesn't have the skill, and now he's been abused so much his confidence must be at an all-time zero. I think he'll have one of those careers where he'll maybe leave United in a year or two, go to a mid-table side where the spotlight isn't on him, and have a quiet resurgence as a decent solid centre back again in his early-to-mid thirties.
		
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Id have him at Villa!


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2022)

Exactly lads. Bog standard forgettable teams like West Ham and Villa would be perfect for him.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Exactly lads. Bog standard forgettable teams like West Ham and Villa would be perfect for him. 

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Bog standard is Birmingham City mate... or Albion at the moment


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			If you look back through the last couple of pages, Alex mentioned the midfield has been dreadful yet Ericsson has been a class act. It was at that point I suggested with them three they should be bossing midfield. With the three players mentioned They should. But Chuck in McTominay and Fred. Well maybe that’s part of the problem. For the record I think Utd have been poor, but there are deffo signs of an improvement with a manager who’s appointment was questioned. ( not by me). Maguire being rammel and the distraction of Ronaldos antics not helping.
		
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Yes, I was careful by not suggesting YOU were saying it was a dreadful midfield as they were not dominating games, only that you suspected it might be a reason why others might think so.

I certainly do not agree with Alex's view that the Utd midfield has been dreadful, if we are talking this season (was correct last season). Some poor games, but a lot of positives as well. Bruno, Eriksen (who Alex acknowledges) and Casemiro are not dreadful players. Antony has also done well, and Rashford (if we are including wide midfield / attacking players, rather than just central). More surprisingly, Fred and McTominay have performed much better than my expectations of them. Not world class midfielders, but I'd not class them as dreadful. At a minimum, they are starting to look like solid squad players. 

It just seems United need to look for ways to be more intricate and unlock defences more freely. They'll probably need a striker who is not just a good player, but is getting game time so as not to be rusty, and all the players get used to their movement. Need wingers to get more balls into the box. All too often, United look reluctant to do this, and when they do you can see why, as the ball is often poor. If they could do that, they'd keep defenders guessing by being more unpredictable.

Just on Maguire. There were a few groans from fans early in game when he played a safe ball, almost an expectation he'd mess up I guess. But, it was nice to see fans cheer him as match went on, and he won headers / challenges. He is certainly not a proven world beater, or proven he has the ability to play in the best sides in the world, but there is no doubt in my mind confidence has played a major role in his poor performances, rather than pure lack of ability. I'd like to see him get that confidence back, just to see what level he is at.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Exactly lads. Bog standard forgettable teams like West Ham and Villa would be perfect for him. 

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Would fit in at spurs aswell nicely ...


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## pokerjoke (Nov 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Would fit in at spurs aswell nicely ...
		
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They would make him captain 😀


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2022)

I understand that Conte has a touchline ban for the Champions League against Marseille. Did he not apologise? Or do UEFA simply enforce red cards when given to managers?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I understand that Conte has a touchline ban for the Champions League against Marseille. Did he not apologise? Or do UEFA simply enforce red cards when given to managers? 

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They should be enforced in all leagues.
No exceptions!


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## venger (Nov 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I understand that Conte has a touchline ban for the Champions League against Marseille. Did he not apologise? Or do UEFA simply enforce red cards when given to managers? 

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The conspiracy theorist in me says that UEFA have it in for spurs as they were the only team to be punished for refusing to play a fixture because of covid problems.
I'm pretty sure they pick and choose who gets banned and who doesn't


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 1, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587414150979981313
I’ll start KDB,Bench modric,drop Fabregas.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 1, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587414150979981313
I’ll start KDB,Bench modric,drop Fabregas.
		
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Agreed. 100%.


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 1, 2022)

Where is Liverpool P. 2 Liverpool games and no comments. Hope he is OK.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 1, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Where is Liverpool P. 2 Liverpool games and no comments. Hope he is OK.
		
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He’s on a forced holiday for breaking forum rules.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Nov 1, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			He’s on a forced holiday for breaking forum rules.
		
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Which ones?


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 1, 2022)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			Which ones?

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Bad language I believe 🤷‍♂️


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 1, 2022)

Atletico not even made the europa league 🤯


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 1, 2022)

Rangers done well this CL campaign 😂


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## Skytot (Nov 1, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Atletico not even made the europa league 🤯
		
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Good horrible team .


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## IanM (Nov 1, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Where is Liverpool P. 2 Liverpool games and no comments. Hope he is OK.
		
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last seen watching the MK Dons!


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## Slime (Nov 1, 2022)

I wasn't having a bad evening ................................ then I saw the results!


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## hairball_89 (Nov 1, 2022)

Great result at Anfield for the reds. 

But for me, Napoli are the most fun side to watch in Europe atm. Not just "defend first" like most Italian teams, but also great fun going forward. They won't win the CL, getting knocked out by a boring "European heavyweight" in the quarters (or something similar). But they're just great to watch.


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2022)

Absolutely incredible second half in the Spurs game. Could have gone either way. At half time I think Sporting & Marseille were going through, now they're the two that have gone out.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 1, 2022)

Rangers 😂


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2022)

Better from Reds look much more organised.
Nunez is a handful.
He changed the game when he came on.

Ref was excellent imo
VAR though 3.25 mins for offside. Clear as a bell in 3D


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## hairball_89 (Nov 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Better from Reds look much more organised.
Nunez is a handful.
He changed the game when he came on.

Ref was excellent imo
VAR though 3.25 mins for offside. Clear as a bell in 3D
		
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Absolutely agree on the ref. Mentioned a few times I thought he managed the game brilliantly. Very impressed. VAR is awful. It has to get better. And quickly. 

Lastly, Nunez. Honestly? I'd start him every single game he's fit until the end of the season. He's raw, he's at times ungainly and his decision making isn't perfect. But he's 22. And good God he brings chaos. He's going to be a superstar. He's not there yet, and he might need years not months. But he's got everything to be an absolute top top class striker.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 1, 2022)

Looking forward to the draw for the last 16 of the CL. I assume Liverpool fans will be hoping to draw Porto as their next opponents as the alternatives don't look too appealing. If the groups stay as they are then they can't draw Napoli or the other three English teams, which would leave Real Madrid, Bayern Munich or PSG as their other three possible opponents.


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## CountLippe (Nov 2, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Looking forward to the draw for the last 16 of the CL. I assume Liverpool fans will be hoping to draw Porto as their next opponents as the alternatives don't look too appealing. If the groups stay as they are then they can't draw Napoli or the other three English teams, which would leave Real Madrid, Bayern Munich or PSG as their other three possible opponents.
		
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Liverpool have been pretty good against the better sides IIRC.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 2, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			Liverpool have been pretty good against the better sides IIRC.
		
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Have they? They got battered by Napoli in the 1st game, when the game actually mattered to Napoli. They also lost to Arsenal, and dare I say it, lost to Man Utd. Have they not only really beat City as a good side, when the result was actually important?


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## CountLippe (Nov 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Have they? They got battered by Napoli in the 1st game, when the game actually mattered to Napoli. They also lost to Arsenal, and dare I say it, lost to Man Utd. Have they not only really beat City as a good side, when the result was actually important?
		
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Napoli aside, and they can batter anyone, they’ve been good in all the CL games, beaten city and were not awful against arsenal. That’s what I meant.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 2, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			Napoli aside, and they can batter anyone, they’ve been good in all the CL games, beaten city and were not awful against arsenal. That’s what I meant.
		
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I wouldn't get excited by Champions League results. Rangers had officially the worst results in Champions League history, and Ajax, I think, only had 6 points, by beating an awful Rangers side, so I'm not sure Ajax are great.

They did well against City, but City could just as easily beaten Liverpool on another day. Sometimes games are just decided in moments, rather than any one team deserving it or not by dominating.

However, might be no point in reading too much into anything. I suspect there could be some big swings in performances from several sides after the World Cup.


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## Orikoru (Nov 2, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Looking forward to the draw for the last 16 of the CL. I assume Liverpool fans will be hoping to draw Porto as their next opponents as the alternatives don't look too appealing. If the groups stay as they are then they can't draw Napoli or the other three English teams, which would leave Real Madrid, Bayern Munich or PSG as their other three possible opponents.
		
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Don't they play Porto every year??


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Don't they play Porto every year??
		
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Yes .
But if you want to win you have to play and beat these teams at some stage.
Great win for Spurs.


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes .
But if you want to win you have to play and beat these teams at some stage.
Great win for Spurs.
		
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Draw was probably the right result but Marseille gifted them the win at the death and in the process knocked themselves out of the Europa as well as the Champions League lol, their manager was not a happy cookie!!! Confirms their recent form of 1 point in the last 4 games in the french league! Not sure Id call it a great win  

Hope Son is OK for the WC, looked nasty


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## Orikoru (Nov 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Draw was probably the right result but Marseille gifted them the win at the death and in the process knocked themselves out of the Europa as well as the Champions League lol, their manager was not a happy cookie!!! Confirms their recent form of 1 point in the last 4 games in the french league! Not sure Id call it a great win 

Hope Son is OK for the WC, looked nasty
		
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Was a crazy second half, either side could have scored a winner. Nice to get one over on the Arsenal rejects and put them out of Europe though. Kolasinac missed a sitter! 

Son looked like he may have had a broken cheekbone or something. Can imagine him playing the world cup with one of those phantom of the opera masks they put on for such injuries.


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Was a crazy second half, either side could have scored a winner. Nice to get one over on the Arsenal rejects and put them out of Europe though. Kolasinac missed a sitter!

Son looked like he may have had a broken cheekbone or something. Can imagine him playing the world cup with one of those phantom of the opera masks they put on for such injuries.
		
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some collection there isnt there, Tavares, Kolasinac, Sanchez, Guendoozy

never any danger of Kolasinac scoring there lol


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## Swango1980 (Nov 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Was a crazy second half, either side could have scored a winner. Nice to get one over on the Arsenal rejects and put them out of Europe though. Kolasinac missed a sitter!

Son looked like he may have had a broken cheekbone or something. Can imagine him playing the world cup with one of those phantom of the opera masks they put on for such injuries.
		
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I was surprised Spurs didn't have their sub ready to go on as soon as play restarted. They treated Son for about 5 or 6 minutes, and it seemed pretty clear long before he gingerly walked off that he would not continue in the match.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 2, 2022)

Ronnie Radford, scorer of one of the most iconic goals in FA Cup history has died.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 2, 2022)

Unai Emery is officially in the building! 

Fingers crossed this turns out to be the appointment that catapults us up the table in years to come.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			Draw was probably the right result but Marseille gifted them the win at the death and in the process knocked themselves out of the Europa as well as the Champions League lol, their manager was not a happy cookie!!! Confirms their recent form of 1 point in the last 4 games in the french league! Not sure Id call it a great win 

Hope Son is OK for the WC, looked nasty
		
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Didn’t see the game but a win is a win.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I was surprised Spurs didn't have their sub ready to go on as soon as play restarted. They treated Son for about 5 or 6 minutes, and it seemed pretty clear long before he gingerly walked off that he would not continue in the match.
		
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Amazes me subs are never ready.
Stripping off, Shirt, shin pads, tape.
Especially if they are down for a while.


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## Jensen (Nov 2, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Unai Emery is officially in the building!

Fingers crossed this turns out to be the appointment that catapults us up the table in years to come.
		
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He doesn’t fill me with confidence, living in Newcastle I’m glad the Toon went for Eddie Howe instead.
Howe has managed at lower levels and kept Bournemouth in the Premier for years on a shoe string budget. He’s experienced relegation fights, whereas I don’t think Emery has had that experience. I don’t see him as your saviour


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2022)

Nice finish from Sterling.


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## 4LEX (Nov 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I thought he was rammel. My lad hit the nail On the head, how is he club captain with the players in that team
		
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Should've been stripped of the armband on day one of ETH's tenre. Incredible a club like Man Utd have a club captain that is a wet blanket. I'm not even a Maguire hater and think he's a very good centre back in a back 3 or in a 4321 but since the incident in Greece he's looked a different player.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 2, 2022)

Son apparently requires surgery on a fractured eye socket.


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## 4LEX (Nov 2, 2022)

Slime said:



			Eriksen, Casemiro & Fernandes is a dreadful midfield?
You couldn't make it up!
		
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On paper it's world class. On the pitch you've got a massively overpriced Casemiro on silly wages north of 30, Bruno who has been average for a year now and Eriksen who has shown his class on a free transfer. It's not a midfield built for the future, it's one that for now and isn't even dominating games at home against the likes of West Ham. Apart from Spurs and the first half of Chelsea, the best football Man Utd have played has been park the bus and hit on the counter.


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## hairball_89 (Nov 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			On paper it's world class. On the pitch you've got a massively overpriced Casemiro on silly wages north of 30, Bruno who has been average for a year now and Eriksen who has shown his class on a free transfer. It's not a midfield built for the future, it's one that for now and isn't even dominating games at home against the likes of West Ham. Apart from Spurs and the first half of Chelsea, the best football Man Utd have played has been park the bus and hit on the counter.
		
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I'm 32. I've grown up with incredible man utd midfields. And hated all of them. As a Utd fan at work said the other day "when your best midfielder has already died you know you have problems!"

The thing now with ETH is at least it looks like there's a plan. I don't think I've seen that in years. They may not have the players exactly needed but the plan is there to move forward with. And that's where I'd say Liverpools problems lie... There's a plan and the players can't cope, for whatever reason.


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## 4LEX (Nov 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yes he was.
It got to the stage where he was slating him even when he didn’t play tho.
He LOVED talking about Pogba and blaming him for all the wrongs in the world 😂
		
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I think it was down to his attitude. Pogba had more ability than almost any midfielder but often went through the motions. If he lost the ego and upped his workrate he'd dominate every midfield. Souness was old school where workrate comes first and so it should IMO.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 2, 2022)

Looks like Chilwell is out of the World Cup.


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## 4LEX (Nov 2, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			I'm 32. I've grown up with incredible man utd midfields. And hated all of them. As a Utd fan at work said the other day "when your best midfielder has already died you know you have problems!"

The thing now with ETH is at least it looks like there's a plan. I don't think I've seen that in years. They may not have the players exactly needed but the plan is there to move forward with. And that's where I'd say Liverpools problems lie... There's a plan and the players can't cope, for whatever reason.
		
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No doubt ETH is better than Ole but his transfer activity is suspect. Not putting a striker as #1 priority and getting rid of Ronaldo will cost him badly. He's already put pressure on himself with the mismanagement of Ronaldo. Not bringing him on at City when they were being smashed out of respect was a smart move, then trying to bring him on for 1 minute in a game what was won was beyond stupid and created all sorts of problems.

Klopp has a plan but he's been done by a lack of backing. He obviously wanted new additions to the midfield and all he got was a reject on loan. He's proven if he gets the money he gets it right and challenges. Liverpool's issue is more the board, Man Utd's is more the manager and board. I just don't see anyway Man Utd win a title or the CL in the next 4-5 years under the current structure. ETH deserves at least 2-3 years so we shall see what happens...


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 2, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Looking forward to the draw for the last 16 of the CL. I assume Liverpool fans will be hoping to draw Porto as their next opponents as the alternatives don't look too appealing. If the groups stay as they are then they can't draw Napoli or the other three English teams, which would leave Real Madrid, Bayern Munich or PSG as their other three possible opponents.
		
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With PSG finishing second in their group Benfica are the alternative opponents for Liverpool in the last 16. I imagine that there are some group winners hoping to avoid PSG in the next round.


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			With PSG finishing second in their group Benfica are the alternative opponents for Liverpool in the last 16. I imagine that there are some group winners hoping to avoid PSG in the next round.
		
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should be plenty of sides wanting to avoid Benfica too, theyve been excellent in the comp so far


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			should be plenty of sides wanting to avoid Benfica too, theyve been excellent in the comp so far
		
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I haven't watched any of the CL so far this season as I haven't got BT Sport so have been following it based on some knowledge of European football and highlights on social media. I can't imagine any group winner wanting to come up against Neymar, Mbappe and Messi but equally I can't see any of them wanting to play against a Benfica side that topped their group above PSG.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			should be plenty of sides wanting to avoid Benfica too, theyve been excellent in the comp so far
		
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Don’t overly worry about who we draw. It’s the last 16 of the Champions League so it’s not like there’s a chance of getting a non-league side like the FA Cup, they’re all pretty useful. And if you’re going to win it you’ve got to beat them at some point.  Yeah, maybe easier over 1 leg than 2, but you’ve still got to beat them. And there’s the embarrassment of going out if you do get the perceived soft draw. 

I’m more concerned about us finding 11 to put out the way they are going down like flies. 😳🙄


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## Bdill93 (Nov 3, 2022)

Jensen said:



			He doesn’t fill me with confidence, living in Newcastle I’m glad the Toon went for Eddie Howe instead.
Howe has managed at lower levels and kept Bournemouth in the Premier for years on a shoe string budget. He’s experienced relegation fights, whereas I don’t think Emery has had that experience. I don’t see him as your saviour
		
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Newcastle fan who didn't manage to appoint Emery prefers Howe as they're currently sat in third.... Shock 

There's no denying Emery is a top level manager above anything Villa have had for years. He's won 4 Europa leagues... that doesn't happen by accident 4 times. We dont have a crap budget, were a side that across all levels are trying to move forward with ambitious owners. 

Who would you have brought in to Villa? Who would you replace Howe with if he was sacked tomorrow?


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## Bdill93 (Nov 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Looks like Chilwell is out of the World Cup. 

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Gutted for him. Very injury prone player but I had high hopes of him and RJ this world cup and now it seems we may have neither


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## fundy (Nov 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don’t overly worry about who we draw. It’s the last 16 of the Champions League so it’s not like there’s a chance of getting a non-league side like the FA Cup, they’re all pretty useful. And if you’re going to win it you’ve got to beat them at some point.  Yeah, maybe easier over 1 leg than 2, but you’ve still got to beat them. And there’s the embarrassment of going out if you do get the perceived soft draw.

I’m more concerned about us finding 11 to put out the way they are going down like flies. 😳🙄
		
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Just unlucky youre not allowed to draw Spurs eh


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Looks like Chilwell is out of the World Cup. 

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A great shame for him but, from an England perspective, he was only going to be backup to the 1st choice left back.


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## fundy (Nov 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			A great shame for him but, from an England perspective, he was only going to be backup to the 1st choice left back. 

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thats great, so who you taking as back up now? not as if the no 1 choice hasnt had injuries of late......


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## pauljames87 (Nov 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			thats great, so who you taking as back up now? not as if the no 1 choice hasnt had injuries of late......
		
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Saka at wing back lol


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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2022)

Maybe it is a good think many of the wing backs are getting injured, in a weird way.

If Southgate had his wish, he'd probably bring 4 left backs and 4 right backs, and play ultra defensive every game.

If most get injured, it might force his hand to play more attacking players each match, and if the stars align and they get, play decent attacking football.


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## fundy (Nov 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Saka at wing back lol
		
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Lol think that option was disproven last time out. Got to get him there in one piece too the amount of punishment hes receiving week in week out!


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## fundy (Nov 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe it is a good think many of the wing backs are getting injured, in a weird way.

If Southgate had his wish, he'd probably bring 4 left backs and 4 right backs, and play ultra defensive every game.

If most get injured, it might force his hand to play more attacking players each match, and if the stars align and they get, play decent attacking football. 

Click to expand...


nah hell just jam some square pegs in the round holes


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## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			nah hell just jam some square pegs in the round holes
		
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At this point I think we just take all the right backs and one of them can play on the left?? That's where he often sticks Trippier now anyway. James is going to be out injured so I guess he has to take Walker, Trent, Trippier & Shaw? Otherwise I don't know who you take, maybe the Palace lad Mitchell?


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## pauljames87 (Nov 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			At this point I think we just take all the right backs and one of them can play on the left?? That's where he often sticks Trippier now anyway. James is going to be out injured so I guess he has to take Walker, Trent, Trippier & Shaw? Otherwise I don't know who you take, maybe the Palace lad Mitchell?
		
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Ryan Sessegnon?


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## fundy (Nov 3, 2022)

and in 2 posts you prove the cupboards all but bare lol


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## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Ryan Sessegnon?
		
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Haha, imagine forgetting your own player. Six months ago I'd have said he was nowhere near, but he is improving all the time and is doing quite well now. And he's a proper wing back, rather than a full back who's been pushed up. You're right, Chilwell missing out could open up a door for him.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Haha, imagine forgetting your own player. Six months ago I'd have said he was nowhere near, but he is improving all the time and is doing quite well now. And he's a proper wing back, rather than a full back who's been pushed up. You're right, Chilwell missing out could open up a door for him.
		
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Maybe for the 55 man squad but not the 26 man. Id expect him in/ around the team by 2024 though!


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## hairball_89 (Nov 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don’t overly worry about who we draw. It’s the last 16 of the Champions League so it’s not like there’s a chance of getting a non-league side like the FA Cup, they’re all pretty useful. And if you’re going to win it you’ve got to beat them at some point.  Yeah, maybe easier over 1 leg than 2, but you’ve still got to beat them. And there’s the embarrassment of going out if you do get the perceived soft draw.

I’m more concerned about us finding 11 to put out the way they are going down like flies. 😳🙄
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this. Apart from I'd prefer 2 legs against Real Madrid. There's no team in the world I'd rather play less in a one-off match.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 3, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Totally agree with this. Apart from I'd prefer 2 legs against Real Madrid. There's no team in the world I'd rather play less in a one-off match.
		
Click to expand...

As regards 2 legs my only preference was to play the away leg second as you knew exactly where you stood re away goals, but as that has gone now it no longer matters.


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## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			As regards 2 legs my only preference was to play the away leg second as you knew exactly where you stood re away goals, but as that has gone now it no longer matters.
		
Click to expand...

Arguably now you would rather have the home leg second so if it goes to extra time, you have your home crowd cheering you on to find that final goal. I think overall it's good they got rid of that - was meant to encourage teams to attack in the away legs, but all they did was park the bus at home.


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2022)




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## Swango1980 (Nov 3, 2022)

Still waiting to see what DeBeek is good at. Not sure he has had a touch yet


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Still waiting to see what DeBeek is good at. Not sure he has had a touch yet
		
Click to expand...

There's little doubt about what Garnacho is good at!


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 3, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Still waiting to see what DeBeek is good at. Not sure he has had a touch yet
		
Click to expand...

When he was fit at Everton, not long to be fair, he was a player that connected the team together. He was always available to take the ball, whether from defenders or midfielders. He got it, moved it on, looked after it. He didn't make surging runs, he didn't hit it 30yds but he kept the ball ticking over. Importantly, to me, he never wasted the ball, he rarely gave it away. I liked him, he was busy.

I don't know how you are using him but we had him in the centre of midfield, infront of the back 4, and let him buzz around.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 3, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 45034

Click to expand...

Has it eaten the squirrel 🐿?


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2022)

No, the squirrel's on the bench ......................... it's called rotation.


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2022)

Wowsers, what a save.


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2022)

Martínez maybe short, but in many ways he's an absolute giant.


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2022)

That should be a red!
No ............................. a yellow for Martínez!
The ref's had a mare there.


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## fundy (Nov 3, 2022)

Maguire up front, more rotation?


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			Maguire up front, more rotation? 

Click to expand...

Got to say, that's an odd one.


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## Slime (Nov 3, 2022)

That was actually a good, solid win ........................... just not quite what was required.


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## 4LEX (Nov 3, 2022)

I admire your positivity Slime and it's a good win in normal circumstances. But possibly the worst 45 minutes of subs and tactical decisions you'll ever see from a top side. To pick such a strong side, dominate the first half and then do that in the second is laughable. Now it's two extra games against a CL drop out side before even the last 16. That's going to seriously damage Utd's Top 4 bid and their best chance of a trophy.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 3, 2022)

According to the BBC, Utd had to win by 2 clear goals to progress. They had four shots and one on target. 😳 For once, Tash is lost for words.


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## Neilds (Nov 4, 2022)

People blaming the amount of injuries on the timing of the World Cup! Surely players would be more likely to get injured at the end of a season when they are more fatigued? Also, some people are wanting the last round of premier league games before the World Cup to be cancelled - when do they expect these games to be played? Maybe they should look at the amount of European matches - oh hang on, these are far too important (and money making) to even mention!


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## Swango1980 (Nov 4, 2022)

Neilds said:



			People blaming the amount of injuries on the timing of the World Cup! Surely players would be more likely to get injured at the end of a season when they are more fatigued? Also, some people are wanting the last round of premier league games before the World Cup to be cancelled - when do they expect these games to be played? Maybe they should look at the amount of European matches - oh hang on, these are far too important (and money making) to even mention!
		
Click to expand...

Possibly, although I think a lot more games have been crammed in before the World Cup, compared to the usual amount this time of season. Didn't the season start earlier, and not sure players had much of a summer with the pathetic 4 Nations Cup games at end of last season. 

The other issue might be that after the last league games, the World Cup begins on the very next week. I think national teams usually have several weeks to get together after end of season, especially for players not involved in any finals with their club. Possibly enough time to recover from shorter term injuries, or relax and get rid of some fatigue. 

It feels like sudden death at the moment, where every player will now know a minorish injury could all but rule them out of World Cup. I wonder if some are holding back in games to avoid, at all costs, getting injured?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Possibly, although I think a lot more games have been crammed in before the World Cup, compared to the usual amount this time of season. Didn't the season start earlier, and not sure players had much of a summer with the pathetic 4 Nations Cup games at end of last season.

The other issue might be that after the last league games, the World Cup begins on the very next week. I think national teams usually have several weeks to get together after end of season, especially for players not involved in any finals with their club. Possibly enough time to recover from shorter term injuries, or relax and get rid of some fatigue.

It feels like sudden death at the moment, where every player will now know a minorish injury could all but rule them out of World Cup. I wonder if some are holding back in games to avoid, at all costs, getting injured?
		
Click to expand...

Yes I think you could be right.
But we were told your more likely to get hurt holding back.
As the weather gets colder VAR isn’t helping having the players standing around while they take 4+ mins to make a decision?
Players are going down with a lot of muscle injury’s.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I think you could be right.
*But we were told your more likely to get hurt holding back.*
As the weather gets colder VAR isn’t helping having the players standing around while they take 4+ mins to make a decision?
Players are going down with a lot of muscle injury’s.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that is in the sense of going in firmly for a challenge, compared to going in for a challenge tamely, and getting injured by the more aggressive player.

I'm talking more about attempting certain things at all. Will all players put a 100% sprint on, and risk pulling a hamstring, or will some of them take it easier. Avoid any sudden acceleration. Will other players avoid making many challenges completely (ones they'd normally make), and instead stay on their feet and look to jockey opponents more often? Especially older players, who might be looking at playing in their final World Cup.

I know clubs pay their wages, and fans would like to think they'd give 100% to the cause. But, we know that is not always true, even with no World Cup on the horizon.

I'd love to know how much effort someone like Gareth Bale has put into his club? Not seen him in MLS, apparently he has scored 2 goals in 12 games (2 in his 1st 4 games), and not played since 2nd October. I know his motivation has been brought into question in recent years anyway, but I wonder if he has taken his foot off the pedal to pretty much guarantee he is fit for World Cup

The VAR issue is also one that should probably be treated reasonably seriously. If play is stopped for considerable periods of times, it can introduce another moment in the game, that didn't previously exist pre-VAR, where players can stiffen up a bit.


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## Aztecs27 (Nov 4, 2022)

I've come to terms with the fact that Forest may well go down (although, I'm not losing hope just yet - still alot of points to play for)...but with the core players we will have/keep, at least we should give the championship a good crack again next season if we do go down. Means I can go to Bristol City away, which is my most local game too! 

Means I'm less stressed about results (although a win against Toney-less Brentford on Sat would be nice!)


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## Asian Dawn (Nov 4, 2022)

*Aston Villa: New manager Unai Emery's 'dream' is to win a trophy*
He'll start in 2023/24 by going for the Championship title


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 5, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588672578595721217


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 5, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588672578595721217

Click to expand...

That was particularly enjoyable given how self-righteous Comrade Neville was over the European Super League.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2022)

What a second goal from Forest Green in the Fa cup.

Take a bow son.


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## Dando (Nov 5, 2022)

Haaland offside and Peps moaning like a cheap hooker


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## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2022)

Dando said:



			Haaland offside and Peps moaning like a cheap hooker
		
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He’s not moaning now 😁👍


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## SteveW86 (Nov 5, 2022)

Dando said:



			Haaland offside and Peps moaning like a cheap hooker
		
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Ah, so Pep was faking it?


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## fundy (Nov 5, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Ah, so Pep was faking it?
		
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sounds like a cheap hooker


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			sounds like a cheap hooker 

Click to expand...

I wouldn't know. I only ever use the expensive high class ones. 👍

EDIT - although with the cost of living crisis everyone is going to be cutting back on their little luxuries.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2022)

Being a Leeds fan isn't boring this year 😳


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## HomecountiesJohn (Nov 5, 2022)

Looking at the Premiership results today, the games looked entertaining to say the least with the amount of goals.

Disappointed by Kevin De Bruynes theatrics to win a penalty, Fulham must be seething. The referee and the VAR need to be sanctioned and disciplined for allowing that decision to stand.

Leeds backed up their fantastic win last week and Brighton continue their great start to the season.

I'm looking forward to a full day of football tomorrow, i am meeting my son, 2 x nephews and freinds for a day of beer and food at Greenwood in Victoria. Perfick.


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## BrianM (Nov 5, 2022)

Take a bow Youri Tielemans, what a strike, hard pushed to beat that for goal of the month!!


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## BiMGuy (Nov 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Being a Leeds fan isn't boring this year 😳
		
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It’s never boring!


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## Aztecs27 (Nov 5, 2022)

Forest jobbed by VAR today. Soft penalty against them at the end of the 1st half, which I don’t have an issue with…except we had 3 shouts that were as much of a penalty and not one given. Welcome to the premier league I suppose 🤣


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## fundy (Nov 5, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Forest jobbed by VAR today. Soft penalty against them at the end of the 1st half, which I don’t have an issue with…except we had 3 shouts that were as much of a penalty and not one given. Welcome to the premier league I suppose 🤣
		
Click to expand...

worse than Fulham were?


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## fundy (Nov 5, 2022)

Some bloke called Bale just scored a 127th minute equaliser in the MLS final lol. Does know how to get an important goal haha

Pens finally incoming


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## 4LEX (Nov 5, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588672578595721217

Click to expand...

I've got a real issue with Gary Neville and his double standards.

First off as player he was a world class right back for almost two decades and criminally underrated. Defensively solid, a real leader and was one of the first full backs to overlap and be able to cross. His trophies and caps as a player say it all.

As a manager he's been a total failure. Got a job through nepotism at Valencia and failed badly. His time as Hodgson's assistant was a joke and oversaw two of the most embarrassing major tournaments in England's history. He's smartly realised he was useless and packed it in.

As owner of Salford City (backed by the guy who gave him the Valencia job) he's bought promotions and titles by vastly outspending all rivals, exactly what he accuses clubs like Chelsea and City of doing. He's sacked numerous managers, exactly what he preaches against on Sky Sports.

His hotel venture with the disgraced Ryan Giggs has been a failure and is millions in the red, yet he preaches about football clubs getting their finances right and avoiding debt. He's suddenly become some sort of self proclaimed moral compass for working class people yet admits to being a 'champagne socialist' and wears Stone Island shorts and jumpers worth £500 like some 50 year old going through a middle aged crisis.

As a pundit he's gone stale and is getting outwitted by Jamie Carragher on a regular basis and even occasionaly by Jamie Redknapp. He's gone away from the tactical side of it and is deluded to think he's the man to change the way football is run 

The stuff about Qatar is just more nonense and icing on the cake. His mate Becks is more dodgy than the Tories and picking up half a billion to be the face of it, yet he doesn't say a word. He's going out there picking up a fortune and cares about nothing workers deaths or rights, just about Gary Neville. The blokes nothing more than a rodent.


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## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Forest jobbed by VAR today. Soft penalty against them at the end of the 1st half, which I don’t have an issue with…except we had 3 shouts that were as much of a penalty and not one given. Welcome to the premier league I suppose 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Watching it now on MOTD, and you have a point. That trip on Dennis was 100% a penalty, I can't believe they've not given it. The second one though was barely a nudge, not enough for a penalty that one. Brentford one probably is a penalty. And just seen the Gibbs-White one and that could easily have been given. Wow.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Watching it now on MOTD, and you have a point. That trip on Dennis was 100% a penalty, I can't believe they've not given it. The second one though was barely a nudge, not enough for a penalty that one. Brentford one probably is a penalty. And just seen the Gibbs-White one and that could easily have been given. Wow.
		
Click to expand...

Must agree...VAR inconsistent....if DeBruyne's pen for City v. Fulham (he went down theatrically after a pause after being tapped on the ankle) is given then Forest should have been given at least one, if not two, of their own.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2022)

KDB its a dive.
After that today no dought in my mind.
Contact wasn’t enough to bring him down so he decided to dive.
I would be fuming if I was a Fulham or Forest fan.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			KDB its a dive.
After that today no dought in my mind.
Contact wasn’t enough to bring him down so he decided to dive.
I would be fuming if I was a Fulham or Forest fan.
		
Click to expand...

Won me a few quid tho 🤗


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 6, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I've got a real issue with Gary Neville and his double standards.

First off as player he was a world class right back for almost two decades and criminally underrated. Defensively solid, a real leader and was one of the first full backs to overlap and be able to cross. His trophies and caps as a player say it all.

As a manager he's been a total failure. Got a job through nepotism at Valencia and failed badly. His time as Hodgson's assistant was a joke and oversaw two of the most embarrassing major tournaments in England's history. He's smartly realised he was useless and packed it in.

As owner of Salford City (backed by the guy who gave him the Valencia job) he's bought promotions and titles by vastly outspending all rivals, exactly what he accuses clubs like Chelsea and City of doing. He's sacked numerous managers, exactly what he preaches against on Sky Sports.

His hotel venture with the disgraced Ryan Giggs has been a failure and is millions in the red, yet he preaches about football clubs getting their finances right and avoiding debt. He's suddenly become some sort of self proclaimed moral compass for working class people yet admits to being a 'champagne socialist' and wears Stone Island shorts and jumpers worth £500 like some 50 year old going through a middle aged crisis.

As a pundit he's gone stale and is getting outwitted by Jamie Carragher on a regular basis and even occasionaly by Jamie Redknapp. He's gone away from the tactical side of it and is deluded to think he's the man to change the way football is run 

The stuff about Qatar is just more nonense and icing on the cake. His mate Becks is more dodgy than the Tories and picking up half a billion to be the face of it, yet he doesn't say a word. He's going out there picking up a fortune and cares about nothing workers deaths or rights, just about Gary Neville. The blokes nothing more than a rodent.
		
Click to expand...

Not a fan then? 😂
At least he hasn’t spat at a young girl tho 🤷‍♂️😂


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## Aztecs27 (Nov 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Watching it now on MOTD, and you have a point. That trip on Dennis was 100% a penalty, I can't believe they've not given it. The second one though was barely a nudge, not enough for a penalty that one. Brentford one probably is a penalty. And just seen the Gibbs-White one and that could easily have been given. Wow.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly this. The push on Yates wasn’t a pen but their penalty is soft as he’s already going to ground when Hendo’s flappy arm appears. But no issue with it being given if he’d been consistent and given the Dennis and MGW ones.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2022)

The comments regarding the City penalty in here amaze me, sometimes I wonder what people were watching. I expected a controversial dive by KDB having read some comments in here. It was nothing of the sort. It was a clear penalty, and there were barely any complaints by Fulham players, manager, commentators or pundits. Usually a clear sign there is nothing controversial about it. He was kicked in the back of the leg, penalty. 

The Cancelo one was also a penalty, and would then need to be a red. But, I do feel it is exactly the sort of challenge referees let go anywhere else on the pitch these days, saying it is a physical game and allowing play to flow.


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## Dando (Nov 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The comments regarding the City penalty in here amaze me, sometimes I wonder what people were watching. I expected a controversial dive by KDB having read some comments in here. It was nothing of the sort. It was a clear penalty, and there were barely any complaints by Fulham players, manager, commentators or pundits. Usually a clear sign there is nothing controversial about it. He was kicked in the back of the leg, penalty. 

The Cancelo one was also a penalty, and would then need to be a red. But, I do feel it is exactly the sort of challenge referees let go anywhere else on the pitch these days, saying it is a physical game and allowing play to flow.
		
Click to expand...

He wasn’t kicked in the back of the leg. He was barely touched yet the swan dive came out.

I guarantee anywhere else on the pitch KDB stays on his feet and carries on


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## BiMGuy (Nov 6, 2022)

Dando said:



			He wasn’t kicked in the back of the leg. He was barely touched yet the swan dive came out.

I guarantee anywhere else on the pitch KDB stays on his feet and carries on
		
Click to expand...

So it was a foul then?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			So it was a foul then?
		
Click to expand...

Nobody knows what a foul is these days after watching games this  season. But that 100% wasnt.

Im sure Darren England is a tad embarrassed after seeing how he was conned.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2022)

Dando said:



			He wasn’t kicked in the back of the leg. He was barely touched yet the swan dive came out.

I guarantee anywhere else on the pitch KDB stays on his feet and carries on
		
Click to expand...

According to Jermaine Jenas KDB was "Clever"🤷🏼


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



*The comments regarding the City penalty in here amaze me, sometimes I wonder what people were watching. I expected a controversial dive by KDB having read some comments in here. It was nothing of the sort. It was a clear penalty,* and there were barely any complaints by Fulham players, manager, commentators or pundits. Usually a clear sign there is nothing controversial about it. He was kicked in the back of the leg, penalty.

The Cancelo one was also a penalty, and would then need to be a red. But, I do feel it is exactly the sort of challenge referees let go anywhere else on the pitch these days, saying it is a physical game and allowing play to flow.
		
Click to expand...


🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			According to Jermaine Jenas KDB was "Clever"🤷🏼
		
Click to expand...

Is that different to earning the right to go down or the same thing?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Is that different to earning the right to go down or the same thing?
		
Click to expand...

Its the same but different😉


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2022)

VAR is video, VAR assessment should be based upon actual speed video replay…stills especially should not be part of any VAR assessment as a still picture captures a millisecond in time and can tell a thousand lies.


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## Aztecs27 (Nov 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			According to Jermaine Jenas KDB was "Clever"🤷🏼
		
Click to expand...

And Emmanuel Dennis dived….for almost exactly the same thing. 🤡


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Won me a few quid tho 🤗
		
Click to expand...

That’s ok then.
That’s what’s wrong with football , to much money involved.
If that was a Liverpool player you would be up in arms.
Double standards you and Gary Neville.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s ok then.
That’s what’s wrong with football , to much money involved.
*If that was a Liverpool player you would be up in arms.*
Double standards you and Gary Neville.

Click to expand...

It was me who posted the clip of Gary Neville 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂
🎻🎻🎻


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## Dando (Nov 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

I asked Alexa to tell me a joke and she said “look at Manchester city’s penalty decision”


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

So they can go through the back of Saka time after time with no punishment, first time he does he gets booked

Cucurella been pinged twice, ref played on once and got away with 2 more so far....


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			So they can go through the back of Saka time after time with no punishment, first time he does he gets booked

Cucurella been pinged twice, ref played on once and got away with 2 more so far....
		
Click to expand...

Maybe it was because Sake's was a petulant retaliatory kick out with no attempt to win the ball?

In other news, VAR adds another contender for the most blatant penalty to be ignored...


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Maybe it was because Sake's was a petulant retaliatory kick out with no attempt to win the ball?

In other news, VAR adds another contender for the most blatant penalty to be ignored... 

Click to expand...


Pint of what BIMs been drinking please barman


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			Pint of what BIMs been drinking please barman 

Click to expand...

Your Specsavers voucher is in the post.


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

another 30 seconds another cucrella foul..............


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			It was me who posted the clip of Gary Neville 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂
🎻🎻🎻
		
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Yes I know it was


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

Then he books a defender for winning the ball cleanly lol


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

how does Jenas still get a gig lol, utterly cluless


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

Were starting to look out on our feet again, Arteta clearly doesnt want to use any more subs either


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## paddyc (Nov 6, 2022)

Shocking foul by Sterling😄😄


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## paddyc (Nov 6, 2022)

MOTM Saliba. Yes been superb as has everyone but Thomas Partey surely... been colossal


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

Think we did enough to win that, neither side were great going forward though, dont think either keeper made much of a save

Thought Silva was outstanding for Chelsea


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## paddyc (Nov 6, 2022)

Men against boys😁great win... Chelsea poor Arsenal completely  dominated


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

Well, that wasn't supposed to happen!


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			Well, that wasn't supposed to happen!
		
Click to expand...

or that?


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			or that? 

Click to expand...

Thankfully, the stream I'm using had gone down at that point, so, in my world, they've only scored one!


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2022)

I always worry when Lindelof is playing. Even more so that Maguire. He is so weak


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I always worry when Lindelof is playing. Even more so that Maguire. He is so weak
		
Click to expand...

.......... and slow.


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

And another England full back goes in the hammy............


Some miss that by Elynoussi too


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

Deflected, but I don't give a damn.


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 45061


Deflected, but I don't give a damn.
		
Click to expand...


good to see the squirrell back from his hols and has a decent internet feed and stream


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

Who was tracking the midfielder?
Oh yeah, no-one.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2022)

Trippier somehow still on the pitch in second half, after feeling his hamstring at end of first. But, Wilson taken off at half time. Injured?


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

An Aston Villa player struggling to breathe because, obviously, he's had his rib cage completely smashed in.


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

How is that not a penalty, absolutely beyond me.
Elanga's just been clothes lined.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2022)

Just watching the Sky Sports App commentary text. Said there was a triple sub, one of the players coming off was the "non-existent Van de Beek".

That describes him perfectly. Absolutely awful player for United. Sure he never makes big mistakes, but only because he spends the entire game hiding. He was a panic attack Anytime ball comes to him, and does his best to pass it to his nearest team mate, then goes and hides again.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Trippier somehow still on the pitch in second half, after feeling his hamstring at end of first. But, Wilson taken off at half time. Injured?
		
Click to expand...

Apparently poorly midweek. 

I'm feeling for Southampton. Perfectly decent team, had some strong chances that they simply failed to take. Newcastle go up the other end, just look at the goal, and in it goes.


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

The ref's head's gone.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 6, 2022)

Well played ref in our game. Maybe Antonio will think twice before diving next time 

Pathetic


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

Varane is a huge miss.


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

It must be said, Aston Villa are not good watch at all.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 6, 2022)

Deserved win for palace 

Antonio what a poor player he is now days 

Diving all over the place

Has a chance at end to square the ball to a colleague, he takes too long and bamn they go down end and score a winner


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

Deserved win for Villa, much the better team today.
Last time they beat us 3-1 at Villa Park was the season we won the league with kids.
Every cloud an' all that.

We'll see them again on Wednesday, I just hope they don't waste so much time!


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## fundy (Nov 6, 2022)

Conte playing a new variant of 3-3-3-1 today lol; 3 centre halves, 3 centre mids, 3 wing backs and Harry Kane


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			Conte playing a new variant of 3-3-3-1 today lol; 3 centre halves,* 3 centre mids*, 3 wing backs and *Harry Kane*

Click to expand...

So, four centre mids, then.


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## Jensen (Nov 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			Conte playing a new variant of 3-3-3-1 today lol; 3 centre halves, 3 centre mids, 3 wing backs and Harry Kane
		
Click to expand...

All set up to play entertaining football on the counter 🥱😴😴😴


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## BiMGuy (Nov 6, 2022)

A feel an equal amount of pleasure and disappointment towards the Villa ManU result 🤣


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## paddyc (Nov 6, 2022)

Slime said:



			It must be said, Aston Villa are not good watch at all.
		
Click to expand...

😅😅 after they've stuffed you 3-1.


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2022)

paddyc said:



			😅😅 after they've stuffed you 3-1.
		
Click to expand...

Hey, they took time wasting to levels I've not seen since the back pass laws were changed.
They were the better team, don't waste time ......................... score a fourth!


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## BiMGuy (Nov 6, 2022)

That shove by TAA was more of a foul than some of the fouls that have resulted in free kicks.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 6, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			That shove by TAA was more of a foul than some of the fouls that have resulted in free kicks.
		
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Anywhere else on the pitch thats a foul all day long


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			That shove by TAA was more of a foul than some of the fouls that have resulted in free kicks.
		
Click to expand...

Cancelo got sent off for something similar. I guess the officials are just terrified of Klopp, especially knowing he could literally get off with murder


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## paddyc (Nov 6, 2022)

The day gets better and better!!


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			That shove by TAA was more of a foul than some of the fouls that have resulted in free kicks.
		
Click to expand...

Yes he got away with one there.
One in the Forest game yesterday.
What is the Var ref doing gone the toilet.


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## adam6177 (Nov 6, 2022)

No luck for divey divey Tottenham Hotspur this time.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2022)

Haven't seen the TAA one, but again VAR has had a 'mare.  If the Brentford penalty was correct then Forest were denied two clear penalties & potentially a third.  And a clear foul on Silva in a goalscoring position completely ignored.

I can get that if you have a different VAR official at different games then the standards applied can be slightly different; what I cannot understand is how the same VAR official can appear to apply different standards during the same game.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2022)

Not sure I'll watch the post match analysis. Souness and Redknapp, urghhhh


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Haven't seen the TAA one, but again VAR has had a 'mare.  If the Brentford penalty was correct then Forest were denied two clear penalties & potentially a third.  And a clear foul on Silva in a goalscoring position completely ignored.

I can get that if you have a different VAR official at different games then the standards applied can be slightly different; what I cannot understand is how the same VAR official can appear to apply different standards during the same game.
		
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It’s because they are crap.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s because they are crap.
		
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It was a bit of a rhetorical question


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2022)

Liverpool very good first half.
But we just gave the ball away to much second half.
Should have scored at least another 2 goals.

Question for the spurs fans.
If you play counter attack football in the first half and 2-0 down.
But come out second half and have a go and lead second half 1-0.
Is it the right way to play given Son is missing. .?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			It was a bit of a rhetorical question 

Click to expand...

Just ignore me then!


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## BrianM (Nov 6, 2022)

Big win for Liverpool today, Salah took his goals well.
Spurs played really well in the second half but just ran out of time to get an equaliser.


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## pendodave (Nov 6, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			That shove by TAA was more of a foul than some of the fouls that have resulted in free kicks.
		
Click to expand...

No one despises the Spuds more than me, but that was stonewall!


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## Tashyboy (Nov 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The comments regarding the City penalty in here amaze me, sometimes I wonder what people were watching. I expected a controversial dive by KDB having read some comments in here. It was nothing of the sort. It was a clear penalty, and there were barely any complaints by Fulham players, manager, commentators or pundits. Usually a clear sign there is nothing controversial about it. He was kicked in the back of the leg, penalty.

The Cancelo one was also a penalty, and would then need to be a red. But, I do feel it is exactly the sort of challenge referees let go anywhere else on the pitch these days, saying it is a physical game and allowing play to flow.
		
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This is why I stay away from this thread. Some of your post is high lighted by some and other parts by others. Just coz it fits an agenda or opinion. Was it a soft penalty. Deffo. Was there contact, deffo, did the Fulham players complain, No. Why did the Fulham player make such a poor effort. Probably because they spent most of the afternoon chasing 10 men.. The small flick after his initial attempt did not help.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2022)

Officials get worse each week 

Clear dive from KDB

Laughable that someone says that’s a clear penalty 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589202299674857473
And today 

TAA push was a penalty and I’m amazed they looked at that and ignored it.

Tyler and Neville were just gutted that Konate was fouled by Kane when they were screaming for a penalty 😂

Ugly win - Mo showing he is one of the best in the league


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Cancelo got sent off for something similar. *I guess the officials are just terrified of Klopp, especially knowing he could literally get off with murder*

Click to expand...

Like they were when Ferguson was in charge of Yernited, The FA and Sky🤣🤣🤣

Elsa springs to mind here🤭🤭


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2022)

SaintHacker said:



			Anywhere else on the pitch thats a foul all day long
		
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Nah i thought Sessgnon made a meal of it, just like he did (but worse) when he got a freekick just outside the box.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			This is why I stay away from this thread. Some of your post is high lighted by some and other parts by others. Just coz it fits an agenda or opinion. Was it a soft penalty. Deffo. Was there contact, deffo, did the Fulham players complain, No. Why did the Fulham player make such a poor effort. Probably because they spent most of the afternoon chasing 10 men.. The small flick after his initial attempt did not help.
		
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Oh Tashyboy, the whole point of highlighting a post is when someone has a different opinion or disagrees with that particular part of the post. No agenda here👍

I didnt think it was a pen, yes there was contact but it wasnt enough for that reacton from KDB. It was pathetic from a worldclass player but i understand why they do it. 

Just because the Fulham players didnt complain doesnt make a difference. 

Call it for what it is.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Oh Tashyboy, the whole point of highlighting a post is when someone has a different opinion or disagrees with that particular part of the post. No agenda here👍

I didnt think it was a pen, yes there was contact but it wasnt enough for that reacton from KDB. It was pathetic from a worldclass player but i understand why they do it.

Just because the Fulham players didnt complain doesnt make a difference.

Call it for what it is.
		
Click to expand...

I did it, it was a soft penalty. 👍


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I did it, it was a soft penalty. 👍
		
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Ahhh Soft Penalty..... i'll respect your view though Tashy😉


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## Swango1980 (Nov 6, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Like they were when Ferguson was in charge of Yernited, The FA and Sky🤣🤣🤣

Elsa springs to mind here🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

And Liverpool fans never mentioned that at the time. Over a decade on, looks like they are still bitter


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## Fade and Die (Nov 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Deserved win for palace

Antonio what a poor player he is now days

Diving all over the place

Has a chance at end to square the ball to a colleague, he takes too long and bamn they go down end and score a winner
		
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If you gift the opposition two goals and play crap you deserve all you get…

The crowd turned today on Moyes, subbing Benrahma, the arrogant ass has piped up in reply to the boos with "There's a lot of experts out there aren't there"?
I'm surprised he didn't cup his ear.

Hopefully G&S + Kretinsky will see he is clueless and has spaffed the £180M they gave him and sack him in the morning. A few Chelsea fans were twinearsing on TS about Potter being out of his depth! Would love it if we ended the season with him.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 7, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			If you gift the opposition two goals and play crap you deserve all you get…

The crowd turned today on Moyes, subbing Benrahma, the arrogant ass has piped up in reply to the boos with "There's a lot of experts out there aren't there"?
I'm surprised he didn't cup his ear.

Hopefully G&S + Kretinsky will see he is clueless and has spaffed the £180M they gave him and sack him in the morning. A few Chelsea fans were twinearsing on TS about Potter being out of his depth! Would love it if we ended the season with him.
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say he is clueless I'd say he is very loyal to players who have served him well 

Soucek is clearly tired and we played better without him on the pitch but Moyes trusts him 

Same with Bowen, I'd of hooked him at half time if one was to be hooked for Antonio 

That said antonio did cause issues .. mainly for us .. believes his own hype and dives far too much


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## Bdill93 (Nov 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			Deserved win for Villa, much the better team today.
Last time they beat us 3-1 at Villa Park was the season we won the league with kids.
Every cloud an' all that.

We'll see them again on Wednesday, I just hope they don't waste so much time!
		
Click to expand...

Lol

Man United fans moaning about things like this just makes me laugh. The long time owners of Fergie time are moaning about wasting time. 

Looking forward to 2/2 on Thursday


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## OnTour (Nov 7, 2022)

managed to watch my first Leicester match v Everton without feeling total anxiety (my life is anxiety central 2022)  some great goals, glad they stuck with Brenda even tho I thought he needed to go and get Dyche in  

top 6 bet is a long way off with no europe I thought we had a chance till we SOLD all the best players   support your local however bad


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Lol

Man United fans moaning about things like this just makes me laugh. The long time owners of Fergie time are moaning about wasting time. 

Looking forward to 2/2 on Thursday 

Click to expand...

I like Klopps way of wasting injury time. The ref indicated a minimum of a minimum of 4 minutes of additional time yesterday. Klopp took Salah off after 90 minutes were up, and play was stopped for nearly a minute. As Spurs got the ball, ready to hoof it up for one last attach, ref blew the final whistle at something like 4 minutes, 12 seconds into additional time.

I bet if this had been Bournemouth or another smaller side against a bigger side, the ref would have added 5-6 minutes additional time due to the sub being being made


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## Neilds (Nov 7, 2022)

Are we going to have a sweepstake on how many times UEFA balls up the European draws today?  Far too complicated with who can and can't play each other, why don't they just put all the balls in a bowl and draw them out?  Worked for the FA Cup for years.


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## Orikoru (Nov 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Are we going to have a sweepstake on how many times UEFA balls up the European draws today?  Far too complicated with who can and can't play each other, why don't they just put all the balls in a bowl and draw them out?  Worked for the FA Cup for years.
		
Click to expand...

All of the seedings and stopping teams from the same country playing each other is purely to guarantee bigger matches later on in the competition so they can keep the money rolling in. Last thing they want is the big Spanish and English teams putting each other out and someone like Benfica getting to the final.


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## Neilds (Nov 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			All of the seedings and stopping teams from the same country playing each other is purely to guarantee bigger matches later on in the competition so they can keep the money rolling in. Last thing they want is the big Spanish and English teams putting each other out and someone like Benfica getting to the final.
		
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It was a largely rhetorical question, I know everything UEFA does is about money but the FA Cup always seems to do ok without a Man City v Liverpool/Arsenal/Man Utd (insert current next best team) final every year.  The final is always sold out and shown on TV so the lack of mega teams in the final isn't a show stopper


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## Orikoru (Nov 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			It was a largely rhetorical question, I know everything UEFA does is about money but the FA Cup always seems to do ok without a Man City v Liverpool/Arsenal/Man Utd (insert current next best team) final every year.  The final is always sold out and shown on TV so the lack of mega teams in the final isn't a show stopper
		
Click to expand...

Yeah.. I guess the FA care a little bit more about tradition, and it still pays to have one big tie in each round I suppose as they need to pick one to stick on telly. In Europe they're all on telly regardless.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			It was a largely rhetorical question, I know everything UEFA does is about money but the FA Cup always seems to do ok without a Man City v Liverpool/Arsenal/Man Utd (insert current next best team) final every year.  The final is always sold out and shown on TV so the lack of mega teams in the final isn't a show stopper
		
Click to expand...

I'd argue the FA Cup has declined massively over the last few decades, for many reasons. The final usually is two big teams, to be fair. Although the Man City versus Watford game in 2018 must have been a more difficult sell for the neutral, and as expected, City battered them 6-0.  I think it is relatively easy to fill Wembley for pretty much any final. The fans of the two clubs will always be well up for it, and even if a small team gets through, I bet most of that town / city would love to go to the final for the day out (plus, I don't know how many thousands are sold to non-fans, through sponsors and so on)

However, I suspect the BBC or whatever other broadcaster are not buying the rights to the FA Cup for similar prices BT pay for the European games? If Champions League semi finals and finals were played more often between lesser sides, there is going to be less interest from the neutrals (and, quite often the neutrals may ignore a lot of the earlier matches, but become more interested when the tournament gets to the business end). 

Personally, there is so much TV on these days, I never watch any FA Cup games unless man Utd are playing, or two of the top sides are playing each other. I just can't get enthusiastic about any of the other games, regardless of how romantic it might be for the teams or fans involved.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 7, 2022)

Well, Ralf has gone from Southampton. 5th PL sacking of the year. I think his reputation will have been enhanced by his time at Southampton, he wont struggle to get another job. A 3-1 loss at home doesn't help buy boy did his players miss some chances. A shame they sold Ings, he fitted there so well, but that seems to be the Southampton way.


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## GB72 (Nov 7, 2022)

So much for the big teams avoiding each other in the next round.


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2022)

Decent draws for Man City and Spurs, tougher assignments for Chelsea and Liverpool


RB Leipzig v Man City
Liverpool v Real Madrid
AC Milan v Tottenham
Borussia Dortmund v Chelsea
Club Bruges v Benfica
Eintracht Frankfurt v Napoli
Inter Milan v Porto
PSG v Bayern Munich


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## Bdill93 (Nov 7, 2022)

GB72 said:



			So much for the big teams avoiding each other in the next round.
		
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What a round though!

Liverpool are in for a hammering

PSG v Bayern is going to be epic


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2022)

Pretty sure PSG gonna be steaming about losing the group to goal difference on the last day when Benfica scored 6 now


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2022)

GB72 said:



			So much for the big teams avoiding each other in the next round.
		
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Impossible with probably half the draw seen as big teams and sides not allowed to play those from their own country (hate this rule btw)


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## Orikoru (Nov 7, 2022)

Hopefully Milan is the perfect draw for us. Not so good that we get tanked immediately, but not so rubbish that we don't bother turning up and get beaten embarrassingly.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			. The fans of the two clubs will always be well up for it, and even if a small team gets through, I bet most of that town / city would love to go to the final for the day out (plus, I don't know how many thousands are sold to non-fans, through sponsors and so on)

.
		
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Chelsea and Liverpool got 30,500 each for the 2022 final (it has only just recently increased from 25k each)....the rest would have gone to sponsors, the FA family (i.e. all the other clubs who are eligible to play in the comp, folk in volunteer roles at grassroots level, long serving tea ladies etc etc), Club Wembley debenture holders and other hangers on with no interest in either of the teams playing in the final.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 7, 2022)

Man u v Barca in the Europa League 


GO ON BARCA


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## fundy (Nov 7, 2022)

Sounds like FSG have put Liverpool up for sale


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sounds like FSG have put Liverpool up for sale
		
Click to expand...

All a bit cloudy as seems it’s more about getting investment in 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589600203308298241


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 7, 2022)

There's nothing like a good sporting contest, and this would appear to be nothing like a good sporting contest;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63540624


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## Orikoru (Nov 7, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			There's nothing like a good sporting contest, and this would appear to be nothing like a good sporting contest;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63540624

Click to expand...

I think this is fairly typical for the Argentinian league. Usually it's Boca and River Plate though.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All a bit cloudy as seems it’s more about getting investment in


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589600203308298241

Click to expand...

Maybe they think they need an additional investor to continue to compete with City and what Newcastle will become?

When I read today that City made profits of 50m this year they detailed all the business in and out and its crazy how much city make just re-selling academy or young talented players.


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## Neilds (Nov 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All a bit cloudy as seems it’s more about getting investment in


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589600203308298241

Click to expand...

Does getting new investment in go against Klopp's philosophy of playing the victim and the underdog?  What does he need more money for if his principles won't allow him to spend it?


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## CountLippe (Nov 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Maybe they think they need an additional investor to continue to compete with City and what Newcastle will become?

When I read today that City made profits of 50m this year they detailed all the business in and out and its crazy how much city make just re-selling academy or young talented players.
		
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Don't they get £200 million in sponsorship from half a dozen companies whom their owner and chairman sit on the boards?


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## Tashyboy (Nov 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Maybe they think they need an additional investor to continue to compete with City and what Newcastle will become?

When I read today that City made profits of 50m this year they detailed all the business in and out and its *crazy how much city make just re-selling academy or young talented players.*

Click to expand...



I have been saying this for some time, brilliant news for City and good news for players not making it into the first team and yet going to other clubs to make a career.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Does getting new investment in go against Klopp's philosophy of playing the victim and the underdog?  What does he need more money for if his principles won't allow him to spend it?
		
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“playing the victim” ?

Sorry what do you mean ?

What does Klopp have to do with it ? If he wasn’t happy with the ownership then he would walk - and if the club did bring in the sportswashing Middle East owners then I think he would walk away.



CountLippe said:



			Don't they get £200 million in sponsorship from half a dozen companies whom their owner and chairman sit on the boards?
		
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yes they have been found to over inflate the level of sponsership they have given themselves


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## Bdill93 (Nov 7, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			Don't they get £200 million in sponsorship from half a dozen companies whom their owner and chairman sit on the boards?
		
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Not a clue, obviously Etihad are strongly involved though. Stadium Sponsor, Kit Sponsor etc

Liverpool's current owners clearly need some help keeping up


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“playing the victim” ?

Sorry what do you mean ?

What does Klopp have to do with it ? If he wasn’t happy with the ownership then he would walk - and if the club did bring in the sportswashing Middle East owners then I think he would walk away.
		
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That is probably what "playing the victim" means, the key word being "playing". In other words, he is not a victim, but he likes to play the role of a victim when it suits him.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“playing the victim” ?

Sorry what do you mean ?

What does Klopp have to do with it ? If he wasn’t happy with the ownership then he would walk - *and if the club did bring in the sportswashing Middle East owners then I think he would walk away*.
		
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Do you actually? I think he'd sign a longer term deal


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That is probably what "playing the victim" means, the key word being "playing". In other words, he is not a victim, but he likes to play the role of a victim when it suits him.
		
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Klopp hurt you in the past ? Looks like you are a bit upset with him looking at your more recent posts. 



Bdill93 said:



			Do you actually? I think he'd sign a longer term deal  

Click to expand...

Yes I do - Klopp has been very strong in his belief in regards the way some clubs are funded and clearly doesn’t believe that’s how it should work - so if it did happen that state arrived to buy the club he imo would walk away.


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## Neilds (Nov 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“playing the victim” ?

Sorry what do you mean ?

What does Klopp have to do with it ? If he wasn’t happy with the ownership then he would walk - and if the club did bring in the sportswashing Middle East owners then I think he would walk away.


yes they have been found to over inflate the level of sponsership they have given themselves
		
Click to expand...

I was referring to his recent whine that it was unfair because some other clubs (NUFC, PSG, MCFC) had more money to spend than he did.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I was referring to his recent whine that it was unfair because some other clubs (NUFC, PSG, MCFC) had more money to spend than he did.
		
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That’s not what he said really though - can’t recall him using unfair etc - believe he said that some clubs have a ceiling on how much they can spend and some don’t have that ceiling. He is only stating the truth though 🤷‍♂️

Certainly not playing any “victim” -


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## Bdill93 (Nov 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp hurt you in the past ? Looks like you are a bit upset with him looking at your more recent posts.



Yes I do - Klopp has been very strong in his belief in regards the way some clubs are funded and clearly doesn’t believe that’s how it should work - so if it did happen that state arrived to buy the club he imo would walk away.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough, you will know the man better than I, but it does just sound like sour grapes to the neutral


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## Swango1980 (Nov 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp hurt you in the past ? Looks like you are a bit upset with him looking at your more recent posts.
		
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Not at all. I used to quite like him (sadly). But, since his team has become poor, he has actually become a real pain. Much worse than most other managers who go through bad periods, which is saying something. He is just a real whinge. I guess he is just hugely sensitive and defensive, which I probably observed for the first time when he embarrassingly had a moan to Keane about when he overheard him use the word "sloppy", despite not hearing the full analysis from Keane so he could have put it in context.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 7, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			Don't they get £200 million in sponsorship from half a dozen companies whom their owner and chairman sit on the boards?
		
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I think to an extent in the past you could have a point. City were getting mega deals that at the time they were signed, there were suggestions they were over inflated, compared to what other teams were getting re shirt sponsorship etc etc. City like other teams have associated companies connected to them like Nexen tyres. Citys response to overinflated sponsorship deals was along the lines of the companies will get massive coverage in the future. it was all subjective. However as it turns out, that has been the case. City were involved in three of the top five viewed games last year in the Prem. Top viewed game v Liverpool. There’s a good read up on the Manc evening news.
Bottom line, it appears things are looking rosy for a good few years yet at the Council house.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/man-city-financial-report-2022-25445567


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 7, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Fair enough, *you will know the man better than I*, but it does just sound like sour grapes to the neutral
		
Click to expand...

He doesn’t know him.
Just reads the same stuff we do on social media 🤷‍♂


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## Stuart_C (Nov 7, 2022)

I'm not surprised at hearing todays news and this has definitely been in the pipeline for a few months. They've seen Chelsea being sold for £4bn+

This squad needs serious investment to keep up with City and there's no Coutinho there to sell to raise the required funds. 

For me its either big investment from the owners or they'll sell at a monstrous profit.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			He doesn’t know him.
Just reads the same stuff we do on social media 🤷‍♂
		
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He reads far more about Liverpool than I do though. Watches more games, interviews etc..


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not surprised at hearing todays news and this has definitely been in the pipeline for a few months. They've seen Chelsea being sold for £4bn+

This squad needs serious investment to keep up with City and there's *no Coutinho there to sell to raise the required funds.*

For me its either big investment from the owners or they'll sell at a monstrous profit.
		
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You can have him for 15m to resell if you want?


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 8, 2022)

Thought The Welsh Song for The World Cup is fantastic and rousing. However could not understand a word!


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## Swango1980 (Nov 8, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Thought The Welsh Song for The World Cup is fantastic and rousing. However could not understand a word!
		
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Maybe it just consisted of one word, a really long one.


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## CountLippe (Nov 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think to an extent in the past you could have a point. City were getting mega deals that at the time they were signed, there were suggestions they were over inflated, compared to what other teams were getting re shirt sponsorship etc etc. City like other teams have associated companies connected to them like Nexen tyres. Citys response to overinflated sponsorship deals was along the lines of the companies will get massive coverage in the future. it was all subjective. However as it turns out, that has been the case. City were involved in three of the top five viewed games last year in the Prem. Top viewed game v Liverpool. There’s a good read up on the Manc evening news.
Bottom line, it appears things are looking rosy for a good few years yet at the Council house.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/man-city-financial-report-2022-25445567

Click to expand...

It doesn't really pass the smell test though does it?
They had a higher revenue than United? City don't sell out their home games.
They were involved in top viewed games?  I was under the impression that the top 3 teams for average viewing figures were Liverpool, United and Spurs.
I note the figures regarding player sales specifically refer to player registrations with no mention of wages.

Now I don't that City are an exceptionally well run club with the finest administrators money can buy, considering their fan base, but the figures are exaggerated.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			It doesn't really pass the smell test though does it?
They had a higher revenue than United? City don't sell out their home games.
They were involved in top viewed games?  I was under the impression that the top 3 teams for average viewing figures were Liverpool, United and Spurs.
I note the figures regarding player sales specifically refer to player registrations with no mention of wages.

Now I don't that City are an exceptionally well run club with the finest administrators money can buy, considering their fan base, but the figures are exaggerated.
		
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City have been caught manufacturing the books and inflating their sponsership but they know now that it doesn’t matter as they can get away with it - that was shown when UEFA punished them and with expensive lawyers and delay tactics got away with it 

FFP was shown to be toothless at that point


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			It doesn't really pass the smell test though does it?
They had a higher revenue than United? City don't sell out their home games.
They were involved in top viewed games?  I was under the impression that the top 3 teams for average viewing figures were Liverpool, United and Spurs.
I note the figures regarding player sales specifically refer to player registrations with no mention of wages.

Now I don't that City are an exceptionally well run club with the* finest administrators money can buy,* considering their fan base, but the figures are exaggerated.
		
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This in a nutshell, they're so smart with their business - but some of your arguments are flawed.

Home game revenue is drop in the ocean for City surely... Selling out every week isn't going to make a huge difference - but they do average 52k per game in a 55k stadium so its not a bad effort, they're in the top 6 supported sides in the prem. 

Wages are included in the clubs expenditures, the profits are profits.. 

Average viewing figures are different to individual game figures.. I don't doubt that Liverpool City brought in some fans - I watched it! 

Its the overseas revenue that's keeping them going, sending their players out to Dubai for pre season shows and commercial stuff - mega bucks! I saw clips of their players on like stages doing meet and greets with Saudi fans etc - they'll be paid MILLIONS to be there!


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You can have him for 15m to resell if you want? 

Click to expand...

Has his back injury resurfaced?🤔🤔😁


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Has his back injury resurfaced?🤔🤔😁
		
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Well he's out for 10 weeks at the moment apparently..


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			It doesn't really pass the smell test though does it?
They had a higher revenue than United? City don't sell out their home games.
They were involved in top viewed games?  I was under the impression that the top 3 teams for average viewing figures were Liverpool, United and Spurs.
I note the figures regarding player sales specifically refer to player registrations with no mention of wages.

Now I don't that City are an exceptionally well run club with the finest administrators money can buy, considering their fan base, but the figures are exaggerated.
		
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As a worldwide fanbase, there's no way they make more than Madrid/Barca or Yernited commercially.

Edited heres what i meant......

https://offthepitch.com/a/exclusive...no-staff-no-active-products-and-being-run-out


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			As a worldwide fanbase, there's no way they make more than Madrid/Barca or Yernited commercially.

Iirc 1  of their recent massive deals with a UAE Hotel chain never actually owned any hotels.
		
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They had so much in player sales though! 160m in the summer alone!

United buy high and sell low - as do Barca - City always seem to make a profit on everyone!


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## Neilds (Nov 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			City have been caught manufacturing the books and inflating their sponsership but they know now that it doesn’t matter as they can get away with it - that was shown when UEFA punished them and with expensive lawyers and delay tactics got away with it

FFP was shown to be toothless at that point
		
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So the proposed new Standard Chartered sponsorship deal which is reported to be worth £80 million is not over inflated?  This is £20 million more than any other previous deals worldwide.
And this is despite the fact that SC is linked with China v Hong Kong controversies and other issues during the time they have been shirt sponsors.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			They had so much in player sales though! 160m in the summer alone!

United buy high and sell low - as do Barca - City always seem to make a profit on everyone!
		
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Isn't that the 1st summer they've returned a profit? 

The Haaland £51.4m deal (excluding the undisclosed commonly known payments to his dad Etc) questions the validity of that £160m "profit"


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2022)

Neilds said:



			So the proposed new Standard Chartered sponsorship deal which is reported to be worth £80 million is not over inflated?  This is £20 million more than any other previous deals worldwide.
And this is despite the fact that SC is linked with China v Hong Kong controversies and other issues during the time they have been shirt sponsors.
		
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The SC deal is worth £50mil a year an increase of £10mil a year.


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## CountLippe (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			This in a nutshell, they're so smart with their business - but some of your arguments are flawed.

Home game revenue is drop in the ocean for City surely... Selling out every week isn't going to make a huge difference - but they do average 52k per game in a 55k stadium so its not a bad effort, they're in the top 6 supported sides in the prem.

Wages are included in the clubs expenditures, the profits are profits..

Average viewing figures are different to individual game figures.. I don't doubt that Liverpool City brought in some fans - I watched it!

Its the overseas revenue that's keeping them going, sending their players out to Dubai for pre season shows and commercial stuff - mega bucks! I saw clips of their players on like stages doing meet and greets with Saudi fans etc - they'll be paid MILLIONS to be there!
		
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There is legitimate income - ticket sales to the general public and TV revenue which is merit based.  There is a grey area around player sales, but probably not too far off (They have a free run on most purchases because no one can compete with personal terms).

The remainder is paying themselves with their own money and calling it income.  Its preposterous.


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			They had so much in player sales though! 160m in the summer alone!

United buy high and sell low - as do Barca - *City always seem to make a profit on everyone*!
		
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good luck making one on Grealish lol


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			good luck making one on Grealish lol
		
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Oh we all know that was silly money for a player who didn't actually improve them.

I do wonder how much longer he stays at City if his numbers don't improve. They signed him to a 6 year deal!


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Oh we all know that was silly money for a player who didn't actually improve them.

I do wonder how much longer he stays at City if his numbers don't improve. They signed him to a 6 year deal!
		
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One thing is for sure, he’s a country mile better than the awful Sterling who left this summer.


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Oh we all know that was silly money for a player who didn't actually improve them.

I do wonder how much longer he stays at City if his numbers don't improve. They signed him to a 6 year deal!
		
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theyll do as well on that sale as we will on Pepes


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			One thing is for sure, he’s a country mile better than the awful Sterling who left this summer.
		
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On what basis do you make that argument? Sterling has over 100 premier league goals at the same age as Jack..  Jack has 4 prem goals since he joined City.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			theyll do as well on that sale as we will on Pepes 

Click to expand...

Savage that one to be fair - But no worse than Chelsea or United's signing of Lukaku


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2022)

If you buy enough players then you are bound to have some duff deals along the way. I'd say City's ratio is pretty darned impressive and whilst they clearly over payed for Grealish I still think he does a lot for the team. I also think he will continue to improve with them and offer them something others don't give them. City can afford that luxury, particularly when they sell on fairly well, so far anyway.


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			On what basis do you make that argument? Sterling has over 100 premier league goals at the same age as Jack..  Jack has 4 prem goals since he joined City.
		
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On the basis of my own personal opinion that Sterling is an awful footballer 🤣
There’s a reason he’s no longer at City.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			On the basis of my own personal opinion that Sterling is an awful footballer 🤣
*There’s a reason he’s no longer at City.*

Click to expand...

Yeah they signed Jack for 100m and had to be seen to play him! Still valuable and someone offered 60m for him... Easy business transaction. 

You're not going to sell Foden or KDB, Mahrez and Silva have a lower value as they're older, Alavrez is younger and upcoming. 

Really, he was the only option to sell.

He also carried England on his back in the Euros.


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## Orikoru (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			On what basis do you make that argument? Sterling has over 100 premier league goals at the same age as Jack..  Jack has 4 prem goals since he joined City.
		
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People forget things quickly in football. Sterling scored 31 goals in 2019/20 season. 25 and 23 in the seasons before that. Then they started rotating him out of the team more and the numbers dropped. He's not really done the business yet in a sort of transitional Chelsea side, but I still feel he's really underrated and there's a top player in him. His off the ball movement is his best attribute, which is easy to miss I guess.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			People forget things quickly in football. Sterling scored 31 goals in 2019/20 season. 25 and 23 in the seasons before that. Then they started rotating him out of the team more and the numbers dropped. He's not really done the business yet in a sort of transitional Chelsea side, but I still feel he's really underrated and there's a top player in him. His off the ball movement is his best attribute, which is easy to miss I guess.
		
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I would take Sterling over Jack all day long.


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			He also carried England on his back in the Euros.
		
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Wow, I thought he was garbage, granted he scored 3 goals but his overall play was shocking, selfish and lacks a decent footballing brain. See he’s flying at Chelsea 🤣


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Wow, I thought he was garbage, granted he scored 3 goals but his overall play was shocking, selfish and lacks a decent footballing brain. See he’s flying at Chelsea 🤣
		
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3 goals which without we wouldn't have made it so far.. Pep had him playing to a really high level - in a very clever system, so he's clearly got football IQ. He's a 100 club member for a reason. 

Does a poor start at Chelsea make him a bad player? Not one bit! Think you're a bit blinkered mate he walks into any side in the country and makes them better (Bar City)


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Wow, I thought he was garbage, granted he scored 3 goals but his overall play was shocking, selfish and lacks a decent footballing brain. See he’s flying at Chelsea 🤣
		
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So the manager whose target he was and had a plan for him is sacked and replaced by a manager who keeps drawing playing positions out of a hat and it’s the player’s fault he hasn’t settled? Jesus. 🙄


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Does a poor start at Chelsea make him a bad player? Not one bit! Think you're a bit blinkered mate he walks into any side in the country and makes them better (Bar City)
		
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I’ve seen enough of him to see what he really is, he’s made Chelsea worse, I don’t think he’d improve Liverpool (then again 🤣), Spurs not sure, Arsenal maybe, Man Utd maybe. It’s probably better to ask their fans what they think, would they be happy signing him and starting every week?


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			So the manager whose target he was and had a plan for him is sacked and replaced by a manager who keeps drawing playing positions out of a hat and it’s the player’s fault he hasn’t settled? Jesus. 🙄
		
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Had a plan for him 🤣
Where’s that Liverpool violin 🎻 🤣


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			3 goals which without we wouldn't have made it so far.. Pep had him playing to a really high level - in a very clever system, so he's clearly got football IQ. He's a 100 club member for a reason.

Does a poor start at Chelsea make him a bad player? Not one bit! Think you're a bit blinkered mate *he walks into any side in the country and makes them better (Bar City)*

Click to expand...


Happy enough with Saka and Martinelli rather than Sterling thanks, be a decent bench option though


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## Orikoru (Nov 8, 2022)

There's a chance he could end his career with 100 England caps. Not many crap players manage that.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Had a plan for him 🤣
Where’s that Liverpool violin 🎻 🤣
		
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Liverpool violin; what are you on about?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Wow, I thought he was garbage, granted he scored 3 goals but his overall play was shocking, selfish and lacks a decent footballing brain. See he’s flying at Chelsea 🤣
		
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I don't think it would be fair to call him rubbish, given what he did at City and the fact he has had good times with England.

Although, I get the frustration element. When myself and mates watched the Euros (watched most games together), we were constantly moaning about Sterling, as he can be incredibly frustrating. It was a more of a "typical" reaction when he actually scored. Not sure if he is like an Andy Cole type, who gets into many good positions, but then messes up a lot more of them. So, he looks like a much worse player than another, who may get fewer chances, but is clinical when they get them.

But, getting yourself into as many dangerous positions as he does is a skill in itself. He can't be accused of hiding in games, he is brave enough to put him in positions that he might mess it up and have to listen to the groans of fans. But, he keeps plugging away. It would be interesting to hear the genuine opinion of defenders who play against him. Do they enjoy it, knowing he will probably miss a load of chances. Or, do they find him a nightmare as he has them running all over the place?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Had a plan for him 🤣
Where’s that Liverpool violin 🎻 🤣
		
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Liverpool violin 🤷‍♂️


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			Happy enough with Saka and Martinelli rather than Sterling thanks, be a decent bench option though 

Click to expand...

You know as well as I do that Sterling is better than Saka as it currently stands.

Saka has great potential, but he's lets be honest, Sterling improves Arsenal.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpool violin 🤷‍♂️
		
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Don’t bite


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You know as well as I do that Sterling is better than Saka as it currently stands.

Saka has great potential, but he's lets be honest, Sterling improves Arsenal.
		
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Most of Sterling’s goals at City were tap ins because of the quality of the service.
It’s when he has to make a decision that it goes pear shaped.
He very rarely makes the right one,
But better than Saka ? Not for me.


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			There's a chance he could end his career with 100 England caps. Not many crap players manage that.
		
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Mate, Joe Hart got 70 odd caps 😬🤣


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## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Most of Sterling’s goals at City were tap ins because of the quality of the service.
It’s when he has to make a decision that it goes pear shaped.
He very rarely makes the right one,
But better than Saka ? Not for me.
		
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Reckon Saka makes the 100 club?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Reckon Saka makes the 100 club?
		
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The only thing that might hold him back is he’s playing for Arsenal.
If he moved to City then yes.


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## Orikoru (Nov 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Mate, Joe Hart got 70 odd caps 😬🤣
		
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He was good for at least 50 of them. Still not sure why he went to pot almost overnight.


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You know as well as I do that Sterling is better than Saka as it currently stands.

Saka has great potential, but he's lets be honest, Sterling improves Arsenal.
		
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Disagree, massively, current evidence Ill have Saka every day of the week and twice on Sundays against Chelsea


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Reckon Saka makes the 100 club?
		
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probably not, not sure too many his age will going forward as club football becomes ever more important and they finally marginalise a lot of the non tournament international games

that or Arteta burns him our before hes 25 lol


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## Swango1980 (Nov 8, 2022)

fundy said:



			probably not, not sure too many his age will going forward as club football becomes ever more important and they finally marginalise a lot of the non tournament international games

that or Arteta burns him our before hes 25 lol
		
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Was he talking 100 caps, or 100 Premier League goals?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He was good for at least 50 of them. Still not sure why he went to pot almost overnight.
		
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Like most top sportsmen it’s between the ears.
Confidence once you lose it it’s gone ,especially a keeper.


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## fundy (Nov 8, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Was he talking 100 caps, or 100 Premier League goals?
		
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assumed he meant caps


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			There is legitimate income - ticket sales to the general public and TV revenue which is merit based.  There is a grey area around player sales, but probably not too far off (They have a free run on most purchases because no one can compete with personal terms).

The remainder is paying themselves with their own money and calling it income.  Its preposterous.
		
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This is a good thread 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589941310441418752


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			It doesn't really pass the smell test though does it?
They had a higher revenue than United? City don't sell out their home games.
They were involved in top viewed games?  I was under the impression that the top 3 teams for average viewing figures were Liverpool, United and Spurs.
I note the figures regarding player sales specifically refer to player registrations with no mention of wages.

Now I don't that City are an exceptionally well run club with the finest administrators money can buy, considering their fan base, but the figures are exaggerated.
		
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I attached a link, did you read it. I don’t think so.
So here’s another.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...-percentage/&usg=AOvVaw0q_PxqktKV40Q05ZoFj1yp
I don’t expect you to read that either. Now here’s the point, Not one club in the prem is sold out to 100% capacity with West Ham at the top of the pile at 99.9% and City at 96. Summat percent. But seriously what does the dont sell out comment actually mean. The top three average viewing figures is different from the top five viewed games from last season. 
What exactly is the smell test though. Coz from where I sit I am smelling Chanel  compared to the smell that the Glaziers have created over at old Trafford. A clubs owners that have taken millions and millions from the club where as City have put money into the game.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			There is legitimate income - ticket sales to the general public and TV revenue which is merit based.  There is a grey area around player sales, but probably not too far off (*They have a free run on most purchases because no one can compete with personal terms).*

The remainder is paying themselves with their own money and calling it income.  Its preposterous.
		
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So how does that equate to City getting players into the academy. It’s hilarious to read City have a free run on player. How comes Maguire went to Utd, coz City had a limit they would pay. So Maguire followed the money. Same when Sanchez went from Arsenal to Utd. The list goes on and on.Cucarella etc etc. what did Sancho go to Dortmund from City. Cox they would not be held to ransom. Oh Utd buying him gave City 15% of his fee.😉


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			People forget things quickly in football. Sterling scored 31 goals in 2019/20 season. 25 and 23 in the seasons before that. Then they started rotating him out of the team more and the numbers dropped. He's not really done the business yet in a sort of transitional Chelsea side, but I still feel he's really underrated and there's a top player in him. His off the ball movement is his best attribute, which is easy to miss I guess.
		
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Sterling on his day was world class, however I have lost count the amount of times my tyrets have kicked in watching him play. Sterling needs quality players around him to make him shine and there’s no doubt that Pep got the best out of him.He was looking stale in his last season at City and it was a good time for him to go. Grealish will settle into life at City in the same way Mahrez has done.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			There's a chance he could end his career with 100 England caps. Not many crap players manage that.
		
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63535507
This is what Sterling does as a player, he divides opinion. My grief with Sterling at England level is Southgate. I do not know of one player that Southgate has brought on Inc Sterling.


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## Beezerk (Nov 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63535507
This is what Sterling does as a player, he divides opinion. My grief with Sterling at England level is Southgate. I do not know of one player that Southgate has brought on Inc Sterling.
		
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Sterling at times for England…there’s a 2 v 1 with a player overlapping on the right, instead of taking the defender out of the game by playing in the man overlapping he decides to take on the defender himself and loses the ball. Rinse and repeat.
Did he do the same for City?
He’s the master of making the wrong decision, not sure if it’s ego or just a poor football brain. 
I was harsh earlier, he’s a very good player, but a top notch player, not for me. In the above situation I’d expect Grealish to do the right thing 9 out of 10 times.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1589937048378839043


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63535507
This is what Sterling does as a player, he divides opinion. My grief with Sterling at England level is Southgate. I do not know of one player that Southgate has brought on Inc Sterling.
		
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Is it Southgates job to bring players on ?
Playing for England players should be the finished article imo.
Sterling is a very good footballer on his day.
But them days are few and far between, he’s a marmite player for me.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He was good for at least 50 of them. Still not sure why he went to pot almost overnight.
		
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The rumour was.When Pep arrived at City Joe Hart had just played for England and requested a couple of weeks off when players returned from the summer. He returned and Pep told him he was not the ball playing keeper that his system of playing from the back required. At that point he was told he could go. Joe Hart has gone on record and told Pep he wanted a chance to show Pep he could play from the back. It never happened. At that same time Pep signed the calamitous Claudio Bravo from Barca who was there Number 2 keeper. Bravo could play out from the back but as a keeper for City he was atrocious. Let’s say a few City fans were royally bogged off swapping Bravo for Hart. Signing Ederson sorted out that. However his stats ( Bravo) as an international keeper for Chile are outstanding. Once Hart left City his career seemed to dip. Ironically when Hart was starting his career at City another young player who was pushing him was Kasper schmeical


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is it Southgates job to bring players on ?
Playing for England players should be the finished article imo.
Sterling is a very good footballer on his day.
But them days are few and far between, he’s a marmite player for me.
		
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I don’t think it is but Southgate seems to play systems that players have never played at club level, yet expects players to pick it up. Sterling cannot. I remember Sterling talking about how Pep told him he was picking up the ball 30 yards to deep. He wanted him further up field. Sterling then asked Pep “ what do I do with the ball then”. “ whatever comes naturally” he said. And sometimes it just goes royally pear shaped due to wrong decisions. When Sane and Sterling were at City it was fantastic to see them two bombing down wings, balls going into boxes and Sterling or Sane coming in from the opposite wing and tapping it in, sometimes.😉
His last game for City when he came on as a sub and put the ball in for Citys first showed what he was capable of.But it became few and far between


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## pokerjoke (Nov 8, 2022)

I like Sterling a lot.
Yes he’s marmite,probably makes too many wrong decisions,however on his day he can be unplayable.


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## Slime (Nov 8, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I’ve seen enough of him to see what he really is, he’s made Chelsea worse, I don’t think he’d improve Liverpool (then again 🤣), Spurs not sure, Arsenal maybe, *Man Utd maybe*. It’s probably better to *ask their fans what they think, would they be happy signing him and starting every week?*

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As a United fan with our current issues up front .............................. no thanks.
And as for Sterling vs Saka, it's Saka all day long.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 8, 2022)

Everton out of the cup before Liverpool even enter it 🤣🤣🤣


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## pokerjoke (Nov 9, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Everton out of the cup before Liverpool even enter it 🤣🤣🤣
		
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The end result you will both be out.
Looks like Lampard is taking PL survival seriously 😀


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## Stuart_C (Nov 9, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			The end result you will both be out.
Looks like Lampard is taking PL survival seriously 😀
		
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Maybe so, but any excuse to laugh at our favourite blooooooooo betheren i'll take🤣🤣

Lampard has a worse record than what Benitez had last year after the same amount of games and he's spent £100mil more😉


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## CountLippe (Nov 9, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I attached a link, did you read it. I don’t think so.
So here’s another.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj02JCRr5_7AhVvQUEAHesCCFwQFnoECBAQAQ&url=https://www.1sports1.com/premier-league-clubs-ranked-according-to-attendance-percentage/&usg=AOvVaw0q_PxqktKV40Q05ZoFj1yp
I don’t expect you to read that either. Now here’s the point, Not one club in the prem is sold out to 100% capacity with West Ham at the top of the pile at 99.9% and City at 96. Summat percent. But seriously what does the dont sell out comment actually mean. The top three average viewing figures is different from the top five viewed games from last season.
What exactly is the smell test though. Coz from where I sit I am smelling Chanel  compared to the smell that the Glaziers have created over at old Trafford. A clubs owners that have taken millions and millions from the club where as City have put money into the game.
		
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I did read your first article, its written by a City fan who has no interest in explaining how city, despite being not as popular or as important, have managed to dwarf the commercial income of the traditional successful clubs.  It's because it's their own money.

Regarding attendances, I am unaware of any protocol for reporting accurate figures, but I do know that I see rows and rows of empty seats at the ethiad, especially champions league games and that City failed to sell out their allocation for other big games such as the FA Cup semi final.  I would have expected a club who have the highest commercial revenue to have a fan base big enough to ensure this doesn't happen.

Regarding the viewing figures, you would expect any team who won the league title on the final day of the season to have been involved in the most viewed individual fixtures, regardless of who they are.  However, you would expect the club who are able to achieve the highest commercial revenue, to be the most popular to watch on TV week in week out, yet they are not even amongst the top 3.

You might smell Chanel, I'd imagine most folk smell sports washing.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the Glazers.  That is a different topic and I don't think anyone has the wool pulled over their eyes.


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

Yet again, year after year, I dont understand why the so called mid table clubs are making 11 changes in the League Cup and going out in the early rounds, especially in a year when the top sides are really unlikely to be flat out in this comp in a world cup year. Where else are they going to have a chance of a trophy and a spot in Europe?


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## hairball_89 (Nov 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Yet again, year after year, I dont understand why the so called mid table clubs are making 11 changes in the League Cup and going out in the early rounds, especially in a year when the top sides are really unlikely to be flat out in this comp in a world cup year. Where else are they going to have a chance of a trophy and a spot in Europe?
		
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Sadly, the finances involved in PL survival far outweigh the gains in a cup run. the last time I looked, the winner gets £100k for the league cup and something like. £1.4m for the FA cup.

Would the fans love a cup run? Absolutely. Do the boardroom, and by extension the managers, really care? Not at all.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Sadly, the finances involved in PL survival far outweigh the gains in a cup run. the last time I looked, the winner gets £100k for the league cup and something like.* £1.4m for the FA cup.*

Would the fans love a cup run? Absolutely. Do the boardroom, and by extension the managers, really care? Not at all.
		
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That would pay Haaland's wages for about 10 days


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2022)

Well, that looks like it has now been confirmed that Reece James has been told he won't be going to the World Cup. Big loss for England, excellent player.


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Sadly, the finances involved in PL survival far outweigh the gains in a cup run. the last time I looked, the winner gets £100k for the league cup and something like. £1.4m for the FA cup.

Would the fans love a cup run? Absolutely. Do the boardroom, and by extension the managers, really care? Not at all.
		
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What help to staying in the Premier League is making 11 changes one game before the majority of your squad gets a 6 week holiday in the middle of the season? If anything you could strongly argue they need more playing time together not less on recent evidence! Not like a side like Everton are going to have a congested fixture calendar post xmas either, get themselves knocked out of the FA Cup playing the reserves and then they can play 1 game a week for the rest of the season to celebrate finishing 16th?

Surely a cup run provides some extra money, some extra momentum and team morale and if it culminates in a trophy they then get European revenue the following year. Genuinely dont see what theyre gaining by not playing a strong side at Bournemouth last night


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## hairball_89 (Nov 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			What help to staying in the Premier League is making 11 changes one game before the majority of your squad gets a 6 week holiday in the middle of the season? If anything you could strongly argue they need more playing time together not less on recent evidence! Not like a side like Everton are going to have a congested fixture calendar post xmas either, get themselves knocked out of the FA Cup playing the reserves and then they can play 1 game a week for the rest of the season to celebrate finishing 16th?

Surely a cup run provides some extra money, some extra momentum and team morale and if it culminates in a trophy they then get European revenue the following year. Genuinely dont see what theyre gaining by not playing a strong side at Bournemouth last night
		
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Oh I agree entirely. I didn't pay any attention to the games last night. Did bournemouth put out a decent side, or was it an occasion where Bournemouth's 11 was just less bad than Everton's? Rotation I get. Give playing time to a few kids, especially if you're playing a much smaller side and can afford to risk it, yep that makes sense. But all 11 against a PL team? Madness to me. 

Cup runs are brilliant. Especially when you win both in one season! I certainly can't see that happening this season!


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			Oh I agree entirely. I didn't pay any attention to the games last night. Did bournemouth put out a decent side, or was it an occasion where Bournemouth's 11 was just less bad than Everton's? Rotation I get. Give playing time to a few kids, especially if you're playing a much smaller side and can afford to risk it, yep that makes sense. But all 11 against a PL team? Madness to me.

Cup runs are brilliant. Especially when you win both in one season! I certainly can't see that happening this season!
		
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Think Bournemouth made 8 changes and Everton 11 lol


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## hairball_89 (Nov 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Think Bournemouth made 8 changes and Everton 11 lol
		
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And no doubt the fans paid full price for the privilege of two top class sides entertaining them!


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			What help to staying in the Premier League is making 11 changes one game before the majority of your squad gets a 6 week holiday in the middle of the season? If anything you could strongly argue they need more playing time together not less on recent evidence! Not like a side like Everton are going to have a congested fixture calendar post xmas either, get themselves knocked out of the FA Cup playing the reserves and then they can play 1 game a week for the rest of the season to celebrate finishing 16th?

Surely a cup run provides some extra money, some extra momentum and team morale and if it culminates in a trophy they then get European revenue the following year. Genuinely dont see what theyre gaining by not playing a strong side at Bournemouth last night
		
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The only thing I can think off is that the EFL Cup is an opportunity to play a lot more of the fringe squad players. From those games, Lampard might have been able to identify one or two players that deserve their chance in the Premier League. Whereas, if he just keeps playing what he considers to be his best 11-15, then there will be a lot of players he never gets to see in action for the first team. Makes it riskier if he ever wants to bring them into the team in the PL down the line.

But I agree that there seems to be little case in rotating players for the purpose of resting his so called first 11, given the break that is about to come about.


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

hairball_89 said:



			And no doubt the fans paid full price for the privilege of two top class sides entertaining them!
		
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Think the Bournemouth fans were happy with what they paid lol, not so sure the Everton fans who made the 250+ mile journey and are back there again at the weekend!!!!

I know Arsenal dont charge full price for the League Cup games anymore, not sure about other clubs but expect most are at a discounted rate


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The only thing I can think off is that the EFL Cup is an opportunity to play a lot more of the fringe squad players. From those games, Lampard might have been able to identify one or two players that deserve their chance in the Premier League. Whereas, if he just keeps playing what he considers to be his best 11-15, then there will be a lot of players he never gets to see in action for the first team. Makes it riskier if he ever wants to bring them into the team in the PL down the line.

But I agree that there seems to be little case in rotating players for the purpose of resting his so called first 11, given the break that is about to come about.
		
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Have only seen the goals but from the report I saw it sounded like he had 11 players who looked like theyd never played together before, mainly because, theyd never played together before. Maybe Im out of touch but surely you play 6 or 7 of your first team and try a few fringe players in that side. By all means rest Pickford and Coady but I think that was it it for fit players who may be going to the WC

Be interesting to see the sides some of the others put out tonight


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Have only seen the goals but from the report I saw it sounded like he had 11 players who looked like theyd never played together before, mainly because, theyd never played together before. Maybe Im out of touch but surely you play 6 or 7 of your first team and try a few fringe players in that side. By all means rest Pickford and Coady but I think that was it it for fit players who may be going to the WC

Be interesting to see the sides some of the others put out tonight
		
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Yeah, and it is especially easy to discuss the error in his ways after a defeat. The EFL Cup is probably a competition that allows managers to put in a load of players they never really play, give them a run out, keep them marginally happier. If they play rubbish, they can explain they have failed to prove themselves, and must try harder in training. If they play really well, it gives him another option in the future PL games. Only when they get through a few rounds, then some managers start to consider stronger sides, as they are closer to actually getting to the final.

As a Utd fan, I won't be bothered if ten Hag plays a complete reserve team on Thursday. I want to win, and will be annoyed if we lose. But, in the grand scheme of things, there will be no real heartache from me at going out in the EFL Cup.


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, and it is especially easy to discuss the error in his ways after a defeat. The EFL Cup is probably a competition that allows managers to put in a load of players they never really play, give them a run out, keep them marginally happier. If they play rubbish, they can explain they have failed to prove themselves, and must try harder in training. If they play really well, it gives him another option in the future PL games. Only when they get through a few rounds, then some managers start to consider stronger sides, as they are closer to actually getting to the final.

As a Utd fan, I won't be bothered if ten Hag plays a complete reserve team on Thursday. I want to win, and will be annoyed if we lose. But, in the grand scheme of things, there will be no real heartache from me at going out in the EFL Cup.
		
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lol you think i didnt say this before the result? been saying it for years about sides in both cups, especially mid table sides!

bit different for man utd, theyve a chance of top 4, theyre in the KO stages of the europa league and the vast majority of their squad will be going to the world cup, very very different scenario to the one Everton for eg were in


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol you think i didnt say this before the result? been saying it for years about sides in both cups, especially mid table sides!

bit different for man utd, theyve a chance of top 4, theyre in the KO stages of the europa league and the vast majority of their squad will be going to the world cup, very very different scenario to the one Everton for eg were in
		
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You took the tone of my comment out of context (not a surprise given then typical tone of arguments on social media). I wasn't criticising your point of view, just generally saying it is easier to criticise a manger in any game if it doesn't work out. If Everton had won (which presumably Lampard still thought there was a good chance with the players available), then it would have been classed as a good decision most likely. Whereas if he picked a strong side, and they still lost, then he could be criticised for not freshening things up and giving others a chance.

But, yes, there is definitely a stronger case for Everton to be playing a very strong side in the EFL Cup compared to a team like that may be in Europe, for example. So, if they do play a weak side, then as per my original comment, I suspect it is more related to giving as many squad players a chance to shine, rather than resting players for the Premier League. Rightly or wrongly.


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## Aztecs27 (Nov 9, 2022)

Spurs basically fielding full Strength side tonight. 😬


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590373917159366656


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

Seems the full range tonight, Spurs and Southampton playing pretty much a full strength side, Liverpool and Leeds appear to have made 11 changes, Arsenal 10 the rest are somewhere in between it with half and half sides mainly


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Seems the full range tonight, Spurs and Southampton playing pretty much a full strength side, Liverpool and Leeds appear to have made 11 changes, Arsenal 10 the rest are somewhere in between it with half and half sides mainly
		
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We have made wholesale changes but Areola is my preferred keeper 

Aguard is getting back to fitness and will be first choice when fit

11 changes, let's see if they can be worse than the first team


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## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We have made wholesale changes but Areola is my preferred keeper

Aguard is getting back to fitness and will be first choice when fit

11 changes, let's see if they can be worse than the first team
		
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you must fancy your chances, Blackburn got their reserves out too by the looks of it

fancy we'll be up against what looks a decent Brighton line up


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			you must fancy your chances, Blackburn got their reserves out too by the looks of it

fancy we'll be up against what looks a decent Brighton line up
		
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I just wish it was on TV , could be a good game


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2022)

Why put on an all Premiership match as their  main match ?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why put on an all Premiership match as their  main match ?
		
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Hmmm, because it is the biggest match, likely to attract most neutrals (and both being big teams, have more fans nationwide)


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## Fade and Die (Nov 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I just wish it was on TV , could be a good game
		
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Glad it’s not 😁

West Ham 0-1 Blackburn
Sky Sports’ Lewis Jones at The London Stadium:

"It's taken eight minutes for West Ham to have a touch in the Blackburn half - that's how dominant the Championship side have been. Slow starts have been a common theme of late for the Hammers. No change here.

"The away fans, which looks nearly sold out, belt out a rendition of: Premier League, you're having a laugh."


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 9, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Glad it’s not 😁

West Ham 0-1 Blackburn
Sky Sports’ Lewis Jones at The London Stadium:

"It's taken eight minutes for West Ham to have a touch in the Blackburn half - that's how dominant the Championship side have been. Slow starts have been a common theme of late for the Hammers. No change here.

"The away fans, which looks nearly sold out, belt out a rendition of: Premier League, you're having a laugh."
		
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Is it on any of the “dodgy“ channels?


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## Fade and Die (Nov 9, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Is it on any of the “dodgy“ channels?
		
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Don't think it is mate. This is usually a good guide to who is showing what worldwide and as you will see there are no listings anywhere.. Hardly surprising no one is broadcasting many of the Mickey Mouse cup games (not just ours). Although I suppose you might get some bright spark doing a live You Tube stream from his mobile.  
	
	
		
		
	


	





https://www.livesoccertv.com/schedules/


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why put on an all Premiership match as their  main match ?
		
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Winners of 7 of the last 10 finals.
History in the League Cup Final with Kepagate
Participants in the 2021 Champions League final

Not like there's anything in there for the Sky publicity machine to get its teeth into, or to sell the advertising.


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## Aztecs27 (Nov 9, 2022)

Forest giving a bloody good account of themselves in that first half. We look like a composed, well gelled team from front to back. 🤔


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Hmmm, because it is the biggest match, likely to attract most neutrals (and both being big teams, have more fans nationwide)
		
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It’s almost as if they care about viewing figures 🤷‍♂️😂


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## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Glad it’s not 😁

West Ham 0-1 Blackburn
Sky Sports’ Lewis Jones at The London Stadium:

"It's taken eight minutes for West Ham to have a touch in the Blackburn half - that's how dominant the Championship side have been. Slow starts have been a common theme of late for the Hammers. No change here.

"The away fans, which looks nearly sold out, belt out a rendition of: Premier League, you're having a laugh."
		
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You were saying? 1-1


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## Aztecs27 (Nov 9, 2022)

Bloody hell! Lodi and Lingard who have both done absolutely nothing this season, both on the score sheet and Forest look like peak Brazil 😂😂😂


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## 4LEX (Nov 9, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Bloody hell! Lodi and Lingard who have both done absolutely nothing this season, both on the score sheet and Forest look like peak Brazil 😂😂😂
		
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Strong Spurs side too....


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## Aztecs27 (Nov 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Strong Spurs side too....
		
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Indeed. Encouraging stuff. Especially as he made 7 changes (I think). Hopefully this side starts Saturday


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## Skytot (Nov 9, 2022)

City v Chelsea was a good game . Ortega was the deference, some great saves  and   poor finishing from Chelsea. Grealish was superb tonight


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 10, 2022)

Borefest at St James Park last night. Big changes for both teams, a theme continuing, and it showed. The game only picked up in the last 15 minutes when the Toon brought their big boys on. Palace came for penalties and succeeded in that. Thankfully Pope then made excellent saves to knock them out, if you play for penalties from minute 1 then you don't deserve to go through. If you want a chuckle, YouTube Bruno's penalty 😱. It's a good job the fans love him 😄


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## Orikoru (Nov 10, 2022)

Whilst I'm not at all excited about the World Cup, I am really excited for there to be no Spurs games for a while.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Whilst I'm not at all excited about the World Cup, I am really excited for there to be no Spurs games for a while. 

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Yes me neither.
Think all the negative press about the hosts has overshadowed the build up.
Will watch England games but not many others.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes me neither.
Think all the negative press about the hosts has overshadowed the build up.
Will watch England games but not many others.
		
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I think there is definitely some truth in that.

When a World Cup comes along, it is not just about it being another football tournament. It is about embracing the culture of the hosts, whether you are going to the host country, or just watching on TV. My first experience of a World Cup growing up was Italia 90. Pavarotti and that Italian logo, and Italy was the theme running through all the coverage. USA 94, and all the American razzmatazz. South Africa and their culture (despite the awful vuvuzela). France, Japan/South Korea, Germany and Brazil (not sure what the feeling was around Russia, as that was dodgy, but I guess there is still a lot to learn about the culture of the biggest country in the world).

However, the culture in the Middle East has been at the forefront of the coverage leading up to the world cup. And, it is far from positive. Instead of embracing the culture of Qatar, we'll be dreading it, their terrible human rights record (I've no doubt there are very good people and things in Qatar btw, but the media will not be focusing on that, as it could be seen as brushing over the important issues related to human rights). Can't even get excited about the wonderful geography of the nation. It is basically a small desert (country is smaller than Northern Ireland) with the city of Doha on the east coast. I'm definitely ignorant of Qatar in many aspects, but I'd be surprised if the media are able to bring out some amazing cultural / geographical aspects of Qatar that help romanticise the World Cup. 

It just feels like it will be dull. The 8 stadiums are generally bunched together. 7 are in Doha, and the other is in Al Khor which is about 35km north. "Tonight, we are live in Doha (again) to bring you coverage of...". There'll be huge excitement for games in Al Khor, at least they'll be in a different urban area next to the desert


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## Neilds (Nov 10, 2022)

I think the main reason that people aren't getting excited about the World Cup is the fact that their 'normal' domestic teams are still playing and they are still caught up in that.  Normally, there is a break of a few weeks after the season in which the excitement builds.  It has nothing to do with the country where it is being held (apart from the change of timing obviously!)  I suspect that once the games get underway people will get more into it and forget that it is in a bad country with the stadiums close together


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## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Whilst I'm not at all excited about the World Cup, I am really excited for there to be no Spurs games for a while. 

Click to expand...

You're not alone. 

As for the WC, regardless of where it is, it's not something i'm looking forward to. 

I know a couple of lads who are going for 2 weeks, they go to every WC & Euros,  they're doing a game everyday and a couple of days they're going to 2 games. They said its not been the same buzz as it usually is building upto it.

This could be a case of kicking the can further down the road.

The rest could do have a negative affect on the squad.


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## Orikoru (Nov 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You're not alone.

As for the WC, regardless of where it is, it's not something i'm looking forward to.

I know a couple of lads who are going for 2 weeks, they go to every WC & Euros,  they're doing a game everyday and a couple of days they're going to 2 games. They said its not been the same buzz as it usually is building upto it.

This could be a case of kicking the can further down the road.

The rest could do have a negative affect on the squad.
		
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I think not being in summer and interrupting the actual season are the two factors really. Usually I associate the World Cup with beer gardens, not being cramped indoors watching it in a rainy November. And as the season is usually over you've kind of drawn a line under it completely so you're not thinking about club football at all - the World Cup acting as a 'bonus' football if you like.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think not being in summer and interrupting the actual season are the two factors really. Usually I associate the World Cup with beer gardens, not being cramped indoors watching it in a rainy November. And as the season is usually over you've kind of drawn a line under it completely so you're not thinking about club football at all - the World Cup acting as a 'bonus' football if you like.
		
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I agree. The buzz of watching England get knocked out whilst sitting in a cramped cold indoors and not the beer garden will be a new experience 🤣🤣


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## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			assumed he meant caps
		
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I meant 100 premier league goals 

100 caps would be a great achievement also but not what I was on about.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree. The buzz of watching England get knocked out whilst sitting in a cramped cold indoors and not the beer garden will be a new experience 🤣🤣
		
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Add to this that our first game is a Monday 1pm KO.... half the nation will be at work!


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## Beezerk (Nov 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Add to this that our first game is a Monday 1pm KO.... half the nation will be at work!
		
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That’s why god invented holidays 🤣


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## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			That’s why god invented holidays 🤣
		
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Try working in a school   Plenty of time off but never when you want it...


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## fundy (Nov 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I meant 100 premier league goals 

100 caps would be a great achievement also but not what I was on about.
		
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Hell get 100 prem goals if he stays fit for me, yes


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## RichA (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think not being in summer and interrupting the actual season are the two factors really. Usually I associate the World Cup with beer gardens, not being cramped indoors watching it in a rainy November. And as the season is usually over you've kind of drawn a line under it completely so you're not thinking about club football at all - the World Cup acting as a 'bonus' football if you like.
		
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This feels more like one of those friendly type tournaments where I might watch the odd game, if I've got nothing else going on. 
Since 1978, I've binged as many World Cup games as I could squeeze in over the month it's been on. I can barely raise any enthusiasm at all for this one.


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## Jensen (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Whilst I'm not at all excited about the World Cup, I am really excited for there to be no Spurs games for a while. 

Click to expand...

I’ll be swapping negative Conte style for negative Southgate style 🙄


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## Orikoru (Nov 10, 2022)

Jensen said:



			I’ll be swapping negative Conte style for negative Southgate style 🙄
		
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Dunno if it's just me but I'm able to laugh it off more when it's England playing crap. It is actually funny how similar England and Spurs are though at the moment.


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## Beezerk (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Dunno if it's just me but I'm able to laugh it off more when it's England playing crap. It is actually funny how similar England and Spurs are though at the moment.
		
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Christ, are Spurs really that bad? 🤣


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## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Try working in a school   Plenty of time off but never when you want it...
		
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I'm contemplating between taking a half day, or just watching it on my screen at work


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## Orikoru (Nov 10, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Christ, are Spurs really that bad? 🤣
		
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Yes. 😔


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## RichA (Nov 10, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Christ, are Spurs really that bad? 🤣
		
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One line I read on the BBC feed last night said that at one they were making Forest look like vintage Brazil. 🤣
Edit: actually it might've been a biased fellow Forest supporter on here. 😳


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## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm contemplating between taking a half day, or just watching it on my screen at work
		
Click to expand...

Ill be doing the latter, but Id struggle to smuggle a beer in


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## pokerjoke (Nov 10, 2022)

Not long now before people start picking apart Southgates selections.
I will start
Please no TAA 😀 at RB


----------



## fundy (Nov 10, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Not long now before people start picking apart Southgates selections.
I will start
Please no TAA 😀 at RB
		
Click to expand...


Ben White deservedly getting a squad place having been one of the 2 or 3 most in form English defender in the prem despite playing out of position. Unlikely to get any playing minutes despite pairing him and Saka on the right being highly logical


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

Maddison, will he or won't he??? He surely cannot ignore him


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 10, 2022)

I’m starting a sweepstake as to who will be first to post the squad 👀🤣


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## pauljames87 (Nov 10, 2022)

Glad Bowen has missed out. His form this season has been a shadow of last year 

Both him and Antonio's work rate has dropped for My liking. Too busy complaining about being fouled than picking up and trying to win ball back (which Bowen used to do)

Maybe will be kick up the butt for him that gets some form back.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 10, 2022)

Wow that midfield looks lightweight, how many minutes has Kalvin Phillips played this season? 😬🙈


----------



## fundy (Nov 10, 2022)

Looks mostly predictable, almost as if the press have picked the squad 

Only 1 left back, Maguire in despite barely playing, both the injured city players included, Maddison in despite being ignored for years


----------



## fundy (Nov 10, 2022)

Tomori and Toney seem to be the unluckiest ones to miss out? No Ward Prowse either


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Looks mostly predictable, almost as if the press have picked the squad 

Only 1 left back, Maguire in despite barely playing, both the injured city players included, Maddison in despite being ignored for years
		
Click to expand...

I agree he’s listening to the press
Unfortunately it looks like pretty much the same as the Euro’s 
He’s got his favourites and I doubt he will stray too much from that.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 10, 2022)

TAA and Maguire. #SouthgateOut


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## Orikoru (Nov 10, 2022)

I'm glad Maddison is in - even though he won't get him on the pitch at any point I shouldn't think. I'm not sure how Tomori is behind Coady in the pecking order though, that is baffling. And I think Toney would have been more useful than Rashford, personally. White must be there as a back-up right back given James' injury. Gallagher getting in is a bit of a surprise - I'd probably have preferred Ward-Prowse.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Wow that midfield looks lightweight, how many minutes has Kalvin Phillips played this season? 😬🙈
		
Click to expand...

54 minutes roughly 

He played for 1 minute in the PL, 1st game of the season against West Ham. 

He played in 12 minutes of their first Champions League game, and came on in injury time in the second game.

Then he played 40 minutes last night in the EFL Cup


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## Beezerk (Nov 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			54 minutes roughly

He played for 1 minute in the PL, 1st game of the season against West Ham.

He played in 12 minutes of their first Champions League game, and came on in injury time in the second game.

Then he played 40 minutes last night in the EFL Cup
		
Click to expand...

Match fit and ready to hit the ground running then...


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Match fit and ready to hit the ground running then...
		
Click to expand...

I was a bit generous, he hasn't played for 54 minutes, apparently it is only 53 minutes.

Should be OK, he has Maguire behind him, who has played 421 minutes this season. Good to have that solid foundation behind him


----------



## RichA (Nov 10, 2022)

Only one full on, old fashioned, out-and-out striker in the whole squad.
Suppose Kane gets injured???


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Tomori and Toney seem to be the unluckiest ones to miss out? No Ward Prowse either
		
Click to expand...

The writing was on the wall for Toney when he didn't get a sniff in the Europa League games.


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I was a bit generous, he hasn't played for 54 minutes, apparently it is only 53 minutes.

Should be OK, he has Maguire behind him, who has played 421 minutes this season. Good to have that solid foundation behind him
		
Click to expand...

I’d still play him before a few of the others in the squad


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## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

Piece said:



			The writing was on the wall for Toney when he didn't get a sniff in the Europa League games.
		
Click to expand...

Were Brentford in the Europa League!?


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Were Brentford in the Europa League!?
		
Click to expand...

Hah! Typo! Euro Nations League or whatever it's called


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm glad Maddison is in - even though he won't get him on the pitch at any point I shouldn't think. I'm not sure how Tomori is behind Coady in the pecking order though, that is baffling. And I think Toney would have been more useful than Rashford, personally. White must be there as a back-up right back given James' injury. Gallagher getting in is a bit of a surprise - I'd probably have preferred Ward-Prowse.
		
Click to expand...

Coady has been one of the best defenders in the prem this season. Deserves his place.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2022)

RichA said:



			Only one full on, old fashioned, out-and-out striker in the whole squad.
Suppose Kane gets injured???
		
Click to expand...

Won’t matter Kane normally plays so deep for England we don’t have a CF.


----------



## fundy (Nov 10, 2022)

RichA said:



			Only one full on, old fashioned, out-and-out striker in the whole squad.
Suppose Kane gets injured???
		
Click to expand...

Callum Wilson?


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Coady has been one of the best defenders in the prem this season. Deserves his place.
		
Click to expand...

Has he?? He averages less tackles per game than Demarai Gray, less interceptions than Iwobi, and that's in an Everton team that are 16th in the league. I'm still not sure why Wolves willingly sent him to a relegation rival if he's that good.


----------



## fundy (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Has he?? He averages less tackles per game than Demarai Gray, less interceptions than Iwobi, and that's in an Everton team that are 16th in the league. I'm still not sure why Wolves willingly sent him to a relegation rival if he's that good.
		
Click to expand...


Or hes playing in a far worse side than lets say, Dier, who plays for a CL side, who play 5 at the back, yet has conceded 4 less goals in a side playing 4 at the back

Every Everton fan Ive spoken to has been chuffed with him as a signing alongside Tarkowski


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Has he?? He averages less tackles per game than Demarai Gray, less interceptions than Iwobi, and that's in an Everton team that are 16th in the league. I'm still not sure why Wolves willingly sent him to a relegation rival if he's that good.
		
Click to expand...

They are 16th in the league, although only Arsenal, City and Newcastle have conceded less goals than Everton. I suspect Everton's problem is the attack, not the defence.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Or hes playing in a far worse side than lets say, Dier, who plays for a CL side, who play 5 at the back, yet has conceded 4 less goals in a side playing 4 at the back

Every Everton fan Ive spoken to has been chuffed with him as a signing alongside Tarkowski
		
Click to expand...

I actually thought Tarkowski had been the better of the two of them?


----------



## Ian_George (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Has he?? He averages less tackles per game than Demarai Gray, less interceptions than Iwobi, and that's in an Everton team that are 16th in the league. I'm still not sure why Wolves willingly sent him to a relegation rival if he's that good.
		
Click to expand...

Not actually seen any of the games, but those stats could easily be because the opposition recognise his quality and discipline, so avoids attacking down his channel!


----------



## fundy (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I actually thought Tarkowski had been the better of the two of them?
		
Click to expand...

not seen enough of them play the pair are definitely an upgrade on what they had and their fans are more than happy with Coady. was always going to the WC as hes "good to have around" on all accounts

lets be honest he isnt the worst of the CH options selected, yes Harry Im looking at you!!!


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

Ian_George said:



			Not actually seen any of the games, but those stats could easily be because the opposition recognise his quality and discipline, so avoids attacking down his channel!
		
Click to expand...

I also wonder if those stats are misleading, because it is not always defenders that come out on top in those areas. A lot of midfielders will probably make interceptions and tackles before the ball gets to the defence, and then maybe the full backs cut out a lot before it gets to the central guys.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 10, 2022)

Maguire & Henderson in the squad 🤦‍♂️
WHY????
HOW????


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2022)

Maddison is in the squad and rightly so based on current form, despite being nowhere near it in previous years except for 1 35minute sub appearance.

I cant see where he fits in a typical Southgate system

I'll be surprised if he plays more than 90mins in the whole competition.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 10, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maguire & Henderson in the squad 🤦‍♂️
WHY????
HOW????
		
Click to expand...

Because they played well 18 months ago 🙈
Hang on, Henderson didn’t 😬


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2022)

That's 45 minutes I'll never get back.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			That's 45 minutes I'll never get back.
		
Click to expand...

The last post has been the best entertainment so far.

Well observed by Utd And Villa fans.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2022)

Fernandes dive 😂😂😂


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2022)

Wow, this game has suddenly come alive.
Lets get this in the right order;



and then,


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Wow, this game has suddenly come alive.
Lets get this in the right order;
View attachment 45101


and then,

View attachment 45102

Click to expand...

Back to NOOOOOO for you 😂


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Wow, this game has suddenly come alive.
Lets get this in the right order;
View attachment 45101


and then,

View attachment 45102

Click to expand...

The gorilla’s up again 😉


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			The gorilla’s up again 😉
		
Click to expand...

Back to squirrel


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 10, 2022)

Quite grateful that we didn’t watch the first half and turn over in the break 🤣🤣


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Wow, this game has suddenly come alive.
Lets get this in the right order;
View attachment 45101


and then,

View attachment 45102

Click to expand...

It's easier just to quote myself.


What a second half!


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

Ashley Young is still so good considering he’s 37


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

Feels like our keeper has never played before. He’s absolutely useless


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2022)




----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2022)




----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

I’ve never seen such a poor keeping performance than this. Olson can happily do one 😂


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I’ve never seen such a poor keeping performance than this. Olson can happily do one 😂
		
Click to expand...

Come on, that was a great goal.


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2022)

What a fantastic 2nd half that was.
I'll love to know what was said by the managers at half time.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Come on, that was a great goal.
		
Click to expand...

The keeper has been awful all game mate. Not just that goal. He walks off his line like he will claim it then backs off, he’s passed to your strikers for fun. Happily see him never pull the shirt on again. 

Good game though, never expected to beat United twice in a week, twice in 2 years is good enough with our record against you 😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590808032606556161
🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2022)

Let the haters hate.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Let the haters hate. 

Click to expand...

It's only Liverpoolphil. That clip was the sort of thing we see from nearly every team, but we only get a twitter video as he desperately watches United games to try and throw mud any chance he gets.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It's only Liverpoolphil. That clip was the sort of thing we see from nearly every team, but we only get a twitter video as he desperately watches United games to try and throw mud any chance he gets.
		
Click to expand...

I take it the infraction has finished 😁👍


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

Fred was back to his worst in first half, and De Beek, yet again, absent. So much better when they came off, and Eriksen came on. 

Garnacho was terrific, and good day for Rashford. Last time we will see Schmeichel and Dublin on TV though, and they referred to him as "Man" of the Match. The Sky phones will be ringing.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Fred was back to his worst in first half, and De Beek, yet again, absent. So much better when they came off, and Eriksen came on.

Garnacho was terrific, and good day for Rashford. Last time we will see Schmeichel and Dublin on TV though, and they referred to him as "Man" of the Match. The Sky phones will be ringing.
		
Click to expand...

Garnacho looks a serious player tbf. He was against someone probably twice his age but even still, rapid!


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It's only Liverpoolphil. That clip was the sort of thing we see from nearly every team, but we only get a twitter video as he desperately watches United games to try and throw mud any chance he gets.
		
Click to expand...

I mean it's literally the same thing that Salah has made a trademark out of.


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Garnacho looks a serious player tbf. He was against someone probably twice his age but even still, rapid!
		
Click to expand...

I think if Utd look after him properly, on and off the field, he could be another Ronaldo ..................... and that's a good thing.
AG49 doesn't quite have the same ring as CR7 though.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			What a fantastic 2nd half that was.
I'll love to know what was said by the managers at half time.
		
Click to expand...

One of the best 45 minutes of football I've seen this season. Utd were brilliant and Bruno looked back to his best. Rashford unplayable on the left taking people on and cutting inside - great to see him firing after a poor year or so. I think I even saw Martial pressing at one point


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2022)

Next up at home to Burnley.
Man City vs L'pool is a humdinger of a tie.
I didn't see who Chelsea, Spurs or Arsenal got.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why put on an all Premiership match as their  main match ?
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if you'll be equally shocked when Sky show Man City versus Liverpool in the next round of the EFL Cup?


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 10, 2022)

Also huge respect to Man Utd getting 72,000 for a League Cup game and Villa for taking 7,500.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I mean it's literally the same thing that Salah has made a trademark out of.
		
Click to expand...

You’ve got Salah and Kane mixed up again 😆


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Next up at home to Burnley.
Man City vs L'pool is a humdinger of a tie.
I didn't see who Chelsea, Spurs or Arsenal got. 

Click to expand...

Who did Everton get?😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Let the haters hate. 

Click to expand...

Play the post, not the poster👍🏻


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2022)

4LEX said:



			One of the best 45 minutes of football I've seen this season. Utd were brilliant and *Bruno looked back to his best.* Rashford unplayable on the left taking people on and cutting inside - great to see him firing after a poor year or so. I think I even saw Martial pressing at one point 

Click to expand...

His diving has never been missing😉


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You’ve got Salah and Kane mixed up again 😆
		
Click to expand...

No, the little tug on the arm followed by the spin and flop to the floor is definitely Salah's thing. Kane's is more, flick the ball past them and wait for the kick in the shins, or back into them and wait for the hands in your back. 😁


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 10, 2022)

Oh, cheers then 🙃


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590812647997714433


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 10, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Also huge respect to Man Utd getting 72,000 for a League Cup game and Villa for taking 7,500.
		
Click to expand...

51,660 at Newcastle last night...the most ever for a League Cup match at St.James' Pk....surpassing the semi-final crowd v. Spurs in 1976.

Maybe the LC isn't as irrelevant a comp as some folks would have us believe?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Also huge respect to Man Utd getting 72,000 for a League Cup game and Villa for taking 7,500.
		
Click to expand...

If my memory serves me right ST holders at Yernited have to commit to buying cup tickets to keep their ST’s.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			51,660 at Newcastle last night...the most ever for a League Cup match at St.James' Pk....surpassing the semi-final crowd v. Spurs in 1976.

Maybe the LC isn't as irrelevant a comp as some folks would have us believe?
		
Click to expand...

Re Newcastle, it gave fans who usually can't get a ticket the chance to go to the match. My Facebook feed was full of people at the match, most of them never usually go.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It's only Liverpoolphil. That clip was the sort of thing we see from nearly every team, but we only get a twitter video as he desperately watches United games to try and throw mud any chance he gets.
		
Click to expand...

No. It’s pretty much everyone 🤣


----------



## Junior (Nov 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			If my memory serves me right ST holders at Yernited have to commit to buying cup tickets to keep their ST’s.
		
Click to expand...

True mate... no such thing as a league match book now, money grabbing so and so's!!!    72k out of 74k was about right.  Few empty seats here and there as you'd expect in the Carabao.

Villa nullified UTD with the high line and players kept getting frustrated and caught offside.  I wasn't surprised the game opened up in the 2nd half.  Maguire and DVDB are awful, turning point was Garnacho and Eriksen coming on.  The more you watch Eriksen the more you appreciate him as a quality footballer.  Oh to have had him 7 years ago.  I'm loving the thought of a Rashford, Martial, Garnacho front 3.

Good shift / passion again from all the utd players though.  That's the biggest difference under ETH and that's what gets the fans onside.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 11, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Oh, cheers then 🙃


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590812647997714433

Click to expand...

nah, there’s nowt wrong with VAR According to some. 😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 11, 2022)

Good draw for City to get a mid table team, glad we avoided Forest 😉


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## nickjdavis (Nov 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Re Newcastle, it gave fans who usually can't get a ticket the chance to go to the match. My Facebook feed was full of people at the match, most of them never usually go.
		
Click to expand...

Demonstrates significant demand over and above the current season ticket holders.

There will sadly come a day when the Cathedral on the Hill will no longer be fit for purpose. I personally hope they redevelop, a la Spurs, rather than move...there is no finer sight than to approach Newcastle from the south and seeing the stadium shining in the sun atop the rest of the city.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Demonstrates significant demand over and above the current season ticket holders.

There will sadly come a day when the Cathedral on the Hill will no longer be fit for purpose. I personally hope they redevelop, a la Spurs, rather than move...there is no finer sight than to approach Newcastle from the south and seeing the stadium shining in the sun atop the rest of the city.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, you cannot get a match day ticket for love nor money, any spares sell out instantly. It’s like back to the Keegan days where they went from 18,000 a week to a full house overnight.
I’ve heard rumours of a new stadium somewhere near the town moor, I can’t think where else they could build one, the old Metro arena space maybe?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2022)

Slime said:



			Let the haters hate. 

Click to expand...

That’s disappointing from you - expected from others ( surprised one didn’t write 6 paragraphs about it )


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 11, 2022)

Villa have decided they want to look more like Chelsea.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Yes, you cannot get a match day ticket for love nor money, any spares sell out instantly. It’s like back to the Keegan days where they went from 18,000 a week to a full house overnight.
I’ve heard rumours of a new stadium somewhere near the town moor, I can’t think where else they could build one, the old Metro arena space maybe?
		
Click to expand...

I suppose theres no stadiums nearby that are big enough to house Newcastle for a season if they planned to rebuild St. James' Park - so a new location might be the only asnwer


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Villa have decided they want to look more like Chelsea. 

View attachment 45108

Click to expand...

Or just go back to a round badge like we have had before... We won in 1982 with the round badge, fans just love the retro look it seems - I voted for it!


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			nah, there’s nowt wrong with VAR According to some. 😉
		
Click to expand...

Watch us miss out on 17th by a point now...


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I suppose theres no stadiums nearby that are big enough to house Newcastle for a season if they planned to rebuild St. James' Park - so a new location might be the only asnwer
		
Click to expand...

It is, there are listed building to one side of St James Park and there’s worries about extending another stand as the metro line runs directly below it.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			It is, there are listed building to one side of St James Park and there’s worries about extending another stand as the metro line runs directly below it.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, sounds complex. Theres part of Villa park thats listed too, really scuppers development to a point - but anything is possible with Newcastle money, you could totally rebuild the thing from the start, incorporating all the issues into the new plan - its just where you play in the mean time.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Yeah, sounds complex. Theres part of Villa park thats listed too, really scuppers development to a point - but anything is possible with Newcastle money, you could totally rebuild the thing from the start, incorporating all the issues into the new plan - its just where you play in the mean time.
		
Click to expand...

I’m sure Gateshead Town would be happy with a ground share 🤣


----------



## fundy (Nov 11, 2022)

Was a large part of why Arsenal sadly moved from Highbury, part of the ground itself was listed building and was impossible to create a modern new stadium on that site


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Yes, you cannot get a match day ticket for love nor money, any spares sell out instantly. It’s like back to the Keegan days where they went from 18,000 a week to a full house overnight.
I’ve heard rumours of a new stadium somewhere near the town moor, I can’t think where else they could build one, the old Metro arena space maybe?
		
Click to expand...

They really are a little stuck. Hugely difficult to expand the existing site, no other logical locations to build a new one other than in parks or the town moor which are protected and planning would be refused. You are then looking at moving out of the city, sacrilege to the Toon. The ground is a massive part of the city economy on match day and the pubs, cafes, restaurants, sandwich shops etc wont want to lose all of that.

Perhaps some clever engineers / architects can work out a way of adding more? Not if it means more level 7 though


----------



## RichA (Nov 11, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Watch us miss out on 17th by a point now...
		
Click to expand...

Keep the faith. Still got my £5 on a top 4 finish. Thinking of placing another one now we've lulled the bookies into making us 500-1. 
😬


----------



## fundy (Nov 11, 2022)

RichA said:



			Keep the faith. Still got my £5 on a top 4 finish. Thinking of placing another one now we've lulled the bookies into making us 500-1.
😬
		
Click to expand...


shop around, theyre a bigger price than that


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 11, 2022)

RichA said:



			Keep the faith. Still got my £5 on a top 4 finish. Thinking of placing another one now we've lulled the bookies into making us 500-1.
😬
		
Click to expand...

haha, I stuck a top half finish on before the season after we signed Gibbs-White....might still come in???

To be fair, if we consistently play like we played against Tottenham, we'll stay up comfortably. I hope we see him reward Wednesday's performance and puts out a variation the squad that started the game. Two up top (one of which HAS to be Surridge) with Lingard or Gibbs-White behind might be the formula we were missing. 

Mangala taking one for the team and seeing red for crocking Richarlison is a small price to pay to humble that bell, but gives us a problem with who to play in his place; with Freuler and Kouyate going to Qatar, they might be playing a bit within themselves to try and avoid injury.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Yeah, sounds complex. Theres part of Villa park thats listed too, really scuppers development to a point - but anything is possible with Newcastle money, you could totally rebuild the thing from the start, incorporating all the issues into the new plan - its just where you play in the mean time.
		
Click to expand...

I randomly heard Richard Keys suggestion a week or two ago.

In order for Newcastle to attract big players, they should consider moving to London. Not the stadium (necessarily), or the full club itself. But, the first team should consider moving to London, at least for training and living, as all the big time players would prefer to be in London than Newcastle (his words). They would then simply travel to home games.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I randomly heard Richard Keys suggestion a week or two ago.

In order for Newcastle to attract big players, they should consider moving to London. Not the stadium (necessarily), or the full club itself. But, the first team should consider moving to London, at least for training and living, as all the big time players would prefer to be in London than Newcastle (his words). They would then simply travel to home games.
		
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I mean its not like they couldn't afford a private Jet for the weekly commute... But I cant see it happening really.


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## Aztecs27 (Nov 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I randomly heard Richard Keys suggestion a week or two ago.

In order for Newcastle to attract big players, they should consider moving to London. Not the stadium (necessarily), or the full club itself. But, the first team should consider moving to London, at least for training and living, as all the big time players would prefer to be in London than Newcastle (his words). They would then simply travel to home games.
		
Click to expand...

How that man still steals a living is beyond me.


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## Beezerk (Nov 11, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			How that man still steals a living is beyond me.
		
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Post of the year 🤣🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I randomly heard Richard Keys suggestion a week or two ago.

In order for Newcastle to attract big players, they should consider moving to London. Not the stadium (necessarily), or the full club itself. But, the first team should consider moving to London, at least for training and living, as all the big time players would prefer to be in London than Newcastle (his words). They would then simply travel to home games.
		
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Wow, he must have been desperate for clicks, publicity, whatever, to come out with that nonsense. What a plank.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Villa have decided they want to look more like Chelsea. 

View attachment 45108

Click to expand...

Can’t fault their taste 😉


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590731101307555842


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## nickjdavis (Nov 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They really are a little stuck. Hugely difficult to expand the existing site, no other logical locations to build a new one other than in parks or the town moor which are protected and planning would be refused. You are then looking at moving out of the city, sacrilege to the Toon. The ground is a massive part of the city economy on match day and the pubs, cafes, restaurants, sandwich shops etc wont want to lose all of that.

Perhaps some clever engineers / architects can work out a way of adding more? Not if it means more level 7 though 

Click to expand...

If Qatar can build a temporary stadium out of shipping containers that can be disassembled then it must be feasible to build a temporary stadium on a brownfield site somewhere whilst SJP is redeveloped.

Whether moving slightly 150yds north west and rotating the pitch 90 degrees might help alleviate the issues caused by the Metro station and the Leazes Terrace I dont know....also might allow for a sunken pitch level so that there doesnt have to be so much stair climbing!!!

At the end of the day, our owners have an awful lot of money.....and money talks....especially if (as originally proposed) there would be investment from PIF into the local community.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			If Qatar can build a temporary stadium out of shipping containers that can be disassembled then it must be feasible to build a temporary stadium on a brownfield site somewhere whilst SJP is redeveloped.

Whether moving slightly 150yds north west and rotating the pitch 90 degrees might help alleviate the issues caused by the Metro station and the Leazes Terrace I dont know....also might allow for a sunken pitch level so that there doesnt have to be so much stair climbing!!!

At the end of the day, our owners have an awful lot of money.....and money talks....especially if (as originally proposed) there would be investment from PIF into the local community.
		
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I think rotating and sinking the stadium is a really interesting one. It's like Kirstie swapping a living room and kitchen in a house, it just needs imagination . Perhaps the owners can take one of those temporary stadiums, put it along Scotswood Road, Ouseburn, Byker etc, where there is spare land that is cheap, for a couple of years and redevelop St James Park in the meantime. People might accept the temporary move in the knowledge that it is just that, temporary. 

It's hard to imagine when you only know the existing set up, one that works so well for the city as a whole.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			If Qatar can build a temporary stadium out of shipping containers that can be disassembled then it must be feasible to build a temporary stadium on a brownfield site somewhere whilst SJP is redeveloped.

Whether moving slightly 150yds north west and rotating the pitch 90 degrees might help alleviate the issues caused by the Metro station and the Leazes Terrace I dont know....also might allow for a sunken pitch level so that there doesnt have to be so much stair climbing!!!

At the end of the day, our owners have an awful lot of money.....and money talks....especially if (as originally proposed) there would be investment from PIF into the local community.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe, but how many of the workforce have to die on the job, whilst working for £1 a week, would be acceptable, before this plan becomes unfeasible  ?


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## fundy (Nov 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think rotating and sinking the stadium is a really interesting one. I*t's like Kirstie swapping a living room and kitchen in a house, it just needs imagination* . Perhaps the owners can take one of those temporary stadiums, put it along Scotswood Road, Ouseburn, Byker etc, where there is spare land that is cheap, for a couple of years and redevelop St James Park in the meantime. People might accept the temporary move in the knowledge that it is just that, temporary.

It's hard to imagine when you only know the existing set up, one that works so well for the city as a whole.
		
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and how much is your budget sir....?


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## Beezerk (Nov 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think rotating and sinking the stadium is a really interesting one. It's like Kirstie swapping a living room and kitchen in a house, it just needs imagination . Perhaps the owners can take one of those temporary stadiums, put it along Scotswood Road, Ouseburn, Byker etc, where there is spare land that is cheap, for a couple of years and redevelop St James Park in the meantime. People might accept the temporary move in the knowledge that it is just that, temporary. 

It's hard to imagine when you only know the existing set up, one that works so well for the city as a whole.
		
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Just flatten Arthur’s Hill 🤣


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## Swango1980 (Nov 11, 2022)

I wonder if Ward-Prowse will be tempted to go in on Jordan Henderson with a dangerous, 2 footed challenge this weekend. He would probably get sent off, but also improve his chances to get a call up for the World Cup.

In all seriousness, I wonder how many England players will get injured this weekend? A relatively minor 2-3 week injury, they can probably kiss their ticket to Qatar good-bye.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			and how much is your budget sir....? 

Click to expand...

Never enough 😆



Beezerk said:



			Just flatten Arthur’s Hill 🤣
		
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Can we give a list of places we could have options to flatten? That could be fun 😄


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 11, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wonder if Ward-Prowse will be tempted to go in on Jordan Henderson with a dangerous, 2 footed challenge this weekend. He would probably get sent off, but also improve his chances to get a call up for the World Cup.

In all seriousness, I wonder how many England players will get injured this weekend? A relatively minor 2-3 week injury, they can probably kiss their ticket to Qatar good-bye.
		
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Isn’t Kyle Walker still injured ?
He’s still going.
It’s a gamble.


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## Slime (Nov 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s disappointing from you - expected from others ( surprised one didn’t write 6 paragraphs about it )
		
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What is disappointing is that I forgot to put a  at the end of my post.
Doh!


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2022)

Ivan Toney decided to prove Southgate wrong immediately!!! Some result that for Brentford


We'll be top, we'll be top, we'll be top on Xmas Day, we'll be top on Xmas day


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## Swango1980 (Nov 12, 2022)

Ohh Southgate, you silly billy.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ivan Toney decided to prove Southgate wrong immediately!!! Some result that for Brentford


We'll be top, we'll be top, we'll be top on Xmas Day, we'll be top on Xmas day 

Click to expand...

Yes it should have been three at the end.
City run out of ideas.
Never seen KDB give so many bad balls.

Brentford brilliant at the back.
Deserved win for me, it’s not all about possession.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ivan Toney decided to prove Southgate wrong immediately!!! Some result that for Brentford


We'll be top, we'll be top, we'll be top on Xmas Day, we'll be top on Xmas day 

Click to expand...

Madison just scored then limped off in our game


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Madison just scored then limped off in our game
		
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There saying ligaments on BT.

Now saying Hamstring.
That’s bad news for the lad.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2022)

How have they not ruled out that spurs goal 😂


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## pauljames87 (Nov 12, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			There saying ligaments on BT.
		
Click to expand...

.
.gutted for him if true , finally get a call and that happened


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How have they not ruled out that spurs goal 😂
		
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rules are different for Our Arry lol


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## 4LEX (Nov 12, 2022)

City were going through the motions and playing at 50% with most of the team off to the World Cup. That said, theres been quite a lot of games this season now where they look slow and predticable. Alvarez might be one for the future but he's been very poor and they've got nothing upfront off the bench to make a big difference.


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2022)

Sacked in the morning Franks getting sacked in the morning


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## Swango1980 (Nov 12, 2022)

Is Anthony Gordon a squad player at Everton now?


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Is Anthony Gordon a squad player at Everton now?
		
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should be serving a 3 match ban after his horror lunge in midweek (think the fact he gets booked every other game counting against him)


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## Dando (Nov 12, 2022)

Southampton played some decent stuff and created some good chances


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## Aztecs27 (Nov 12, 2022)

😁😁😁 so nice to see things finally clicking.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591481477987975175
😂


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sacked in the morning Franks getting sacked in the morning 

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No please keep him there longer.

The Ev twitterspace is hilarious.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 12, 2022)

Dando said:



			Southampton played some decent stuff and created some good chances
		
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Agreed. On another day the points could have gone either way


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			No please keep him there longer.

The Ev twitterspace is hilarious.
		
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But they can’t sack him - because he gets the fans and it’s all down to Rafa 😀


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 12, 2022)

Newcastle bossing Chelsea. Quite a remarkable turnaround from a year ago.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591476698494672898
Penalty or not ?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But they can’t sack him - because he gets the fans and it’s all down to Rafa 😀
		
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Rafa has bought them their last 3 best players.

Keep sacking managers isnt the answer.

I feel sorry for some of the bloooos. I dont get how they can be so angry week in week out,season after season.

There must be a point where they say sound, let's just go on the ale.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2022)

SaintHacker said:



			Agreed. On another day the points could have gone either way
		
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Alisson was mustard today, he had to be though as Southampton had the ref on their side,


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## BiMGuy (Nov 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591476698494672898
Penalty or not ?
		
Click to expand...

Not


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			No please keep him there longer.

The Ev twitterspace is hilarious.
		
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Hey, there's a separate thread for EVs, and that is also hilarious at times!


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## Slime (Nov 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591476698494672898
Penalty or not ?
		
Click to expand...

Not.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 12, 2022)

The time wasting by Newcastle made that a really tough watch in the end.


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## Jensen (Nov 12, 2022)

Toon,Toon, Black and White Army 👍😉


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591476698494672898
Penalty or not ?
		
Click to expand...

Stonewaller for Kane


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The time wasting by Newcastle made that a really tough watch in the end.
		
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From the 1st minute. It needs clamping down on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Stonewaller for Kane
		
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No doubt at all

Maybe he needs to be more “clever” - speaking of which i understand KDB lost his footing again today


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591533614646394881
Not great from VAR


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591533614646394881
Not great from VAR
		
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Can't help but think that would've been given as a penalty at the other end. And as they said, the linesman was purely guessing as he wasn't up with play.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591476698494672898
Penalty or not ?
		
Click to expand...

What must happen for Salah to get a penalty? Might help if he actually gets fouled in the first place🙄


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## SaintHacker (Nov 12, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Alisson was mustard today, he had to be though as Southampton had the ref on their side,
		
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Really? I thought the ref got everything pretty much spot on today, apart from booking Caleta Car early in the game for a bit of a nothing challenge then letting a liverpool player off in the 2nd half for an obvious drag back.


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## fundy (Nov 12, 2022)

2-0 and top for Xmas, happy days  far from our best, several of our better players way below par, but still good enough. 

Enjoy it while we can get a feeling 2nd half of the season might be very different


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## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2022)

SaintHacker said:



			Really? I thought the ref got everything pretty much spot on today, *apart from booking Caleta Car early in the game for a bit of a nothing challenge* then letting a liverpool player off in the 2nd half for an obvious drag back.
		
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It was a blatant block/obstruction/foul on Elliott who had just played a 1-2  with Salahwho had broke and Elliott was making a run into space. Blatant yellow allday long.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591533614646394881
Not great from VAR
		
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Yes that’s a pen.
VAR can it get any worse.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 13, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591415907401842688
🤣🤣🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 13, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591570024258359296


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## Dando (Nov 13, 2022)

I can’t believe that the ref allowed Laporte to get 7 minutes of treatment on the pitch for a head injury.
Surely he should've been ordered off so the game can continue


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## Dando (Nov 13, 2022)

Love fat Frank’s comments on MOTD

“We started ok” 

I assume he means kick off 🤣🤣


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 13, 2022)

Dando said:



			Love fat Frank’s comments on MOTD

“We started ok” 

I assume he means kick off 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

It's important to break the game down into segments. We got the first minute right. We just need to work on the rest 🤷‍♂️. Imagine if we had fluffed the kick off 😱.

The world cup break has come at a great time for us.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes it should have been three at the end.
City run out of ideas.
Never seen KDB give so many bad balls.

Brentford brilliant at the back.
Deserved win for me, it’s not all about possession.
		
Click to expand...

Didn’t see any of the football yesterday due to RBL parade at rugby club. My lad was saying a deserved win for Brentford. Don’t you love the Prem league 😁
That aside, what a reminder from Toney for Southgate re not going to the WC. If Toney was at a top six club he would be a shoe in.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591415907401842688
🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Yes .
I really ike watching KDB but it’s very disappointing to watch him do this.
Are City not winning enough they have to resort to cheating.?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 13, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Didn’t see any of the football yesterday due to RBL parade at rugby club. My lad was saying a deserved win for Brentford. Don’t you love the Prem league 😁
That aside, what a reminder from Toney for Southgate re not going to the WC. If Toney was at a top six club he would be a shoe in.
		
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My take as a neutral is Toney scored two great goals.
But he should have had more.
Brilliant performance fromBrentford.
Your lad was right they deserved it.

Said for a while now City are wide open at the back if teams are prepared to have a go.
But to many won’t as they scared of a hiding.

Foden goal wasn’t bad either.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 13, 2022)

Solid W against Brighton. 2 wins from 2 league games, Unai’s started well! 

Not many players off to the WC so a good opportunity for the team to learn the system better and get ready for the second half of the season!

UTV


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## Slime (Nov 13, 2022)




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## Slime (Nov 13, 2022)




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## Stuart_C (Nov 13, 2022)

Poor from Fernandes, cant be losing the ball so casually in that position and not making the effort to win the ball back.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Poor from Fernandes, cant be losing the ball so casually in that position and not making the effort to win the ball back.
		
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Don't know if you saw the Man City game yesterday but was very impressed with Haaland when Brentford broke away to score their winning goal. He sprinted all the way back from the Brentford box to try to get back to defend and overtook pretty much all of his team mates that were also trying to get back. Ultimately it wasn't enough to prevent the goal but if some of the Man Utd players showed that kind of desire and work ethic they'd be a far better team.


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## Slime (Nov 13, 2022)

What a talent he is!
AG49.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 13, 2022)

Wow what a finish to the game, great goal.

Shame Tierney  never added on the minute Yernited wasted celebrating the goal like he should.


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## Slime (Nov 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow what a finish to the game, great goal.

*Shame Tierney  never added on the minute Yernited wasted celebrating the goal like he should.*

Click to expand...

Yeah, we'd have won 1-3!


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow what a finish to the game, great goal.

Shame Tierney  never added on the minute Yernited wasted celebrating the goal like he should.
		
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When do any of them? Timekeeper please…


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## Stuart_C (Nov 13, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			When do any of them? Timekeeper please…
		
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When it's Liverpool needing a winner 🤣🤣

Too many chef's spoil the broth.


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## Bazzatron (Nov 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591533614646394881
Not great from VAR
		
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Don't worry it's only wolves.


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## fundy (Nov 13, 2022)

Poor old Ronaldo feels that betrayed at Man Utd hes had to go and confess all to Piers Morgan lol. I dont think the Squirrel is going to be impressed!!!


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## Slime (Nov 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Poor old Ronaldo feels that betrayed at Man Utd hes had to go and confess all to Piers Morgan lol.* I dont think the Squirrel is going to be impressed!!!*

Click to expand...

I had a little chat with my squirrel and he said it's time for Ronaldo to do one!
A vital, last minute win and a fabulous, dramatic goal from a truly exciting youngster and all the headlines are about Ronaldo.
He's like a Pogba MkII.
Just get rid of him and remove all the clutter that surrounds him.
For me, the greatest player of all time, but he's in serious danger of ruining his legacy.
Ronnie, you've had your time, please accept that and move on so that others can have theirs.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Nov 14, 2022)

I have just seen some clips of Ronaldo chatting with PM. 
Before I go any further, I must stress how i completely dislike Piers Morgan and his obnoxious, self righteous character.

Onto Ronaldo. I have always had the utmost respect for Ronaldo as a player, he was arguably the greatest footballer I’ve ever seen but he has let his ManU team mates, fans down and his Portuguese teammates down as this storm will now be following Him and Portugal around the WC.

There’s a time and a place to air your dirty laundry in public, at the start of a World Cup is beyond the pale.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 14, 2022)

Explosive stuff from Ronaldo, talk about burning his bridges!! 

I'm not surpised  at this interview, there was no way he was allowing EtH to drop him, fine him and make an example of him the way he did a couple of weeks ago.

Last season fans were telling us Ronaldo wasnt the problem?? 🤔🤔


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## Stuart_C (Nov 14, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			I have just seen some clips of Ronaldo chatting with PM.
Before I go any further, I must stress how i completely dislike Piers Morgan and his obnoxious, self righteous character.

Onto Ronaldo. I have always had the utmost respect for Ronaldo as a player, he was arguably the greatest footballer I’ve ever seen but* he has let his ManU team mates, fans down and his Portuguese teammates down as this storm will now be following Him and Portugal around the WC.*

There’s a time and a place to air your dirty laundry in public, at the start of a World Cup is beyond the pale.
		
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I agree with this. The media will have a field day at every Portugal press conference.

Selfish.


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## Junior (Nov 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Explosive stuff from Ronaldo, talk about burning his bridges!! 

I'm not surpised  at this interview, there was no way he was allowing EtH to drop him, fine him and make an example of him the way he did a couple of weeks ago.

Last season fans were telling us Ronaldo wasnt the problem?? 🤔🤔
		
Click to expand...

Not me pal.  Always said we we would be better without him in the side, despite the goals.  We got him to stop Man Citeh buying him.  It set the club back. 

He's let the team and the club down imo. He might not be far off the mark with what he is saying but dont air your dirty laundry in public with Piers Morgan while you're still being paid a small fortune every week.  ETH didn't have to bow to his ego and "show him respect" , he did right and treated him like every other player. Respect is earned and not turning up fornpre season and then marching down the tunnel refusing to come on as a sub isn't the way to go about it. 

Perfect timing too. A month's break and the January transfer window opens.  No-one would pay £12 million for him last summer because of his astronomical wages.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Explosive stuff from Ronaldo, talk about burning his bridges!!

I'm not surpised  at this interview, there was no way he was allowing EtH to drop him, fine him and make an example of him the way he did a couple of weeks ago.

Last season fans were telling us Ronaldo wasnt the problem?? 🤔🤔
		
Click to expand...

He wasn't the problem last season. The team were, clearly. Remember a guy called OGS that was manager. Remember players like McFred, Maguire and Wan Bissaka that everyone liked to remind us were awful? I don't remember ten Hag being at the club last season.

But, since he said he wanted to leave, after ten Hag said he was in his plans, has caused the problem. Missing pre season was a problem. It gave others a chance, and ten Hag has decided to favour guys who are more likely to be there longer term. Rightly so, Ronaldo could be gone January.

Ronaldo is burning his bridges. Piers Morgan, the weasel that he is, is feeding on that. Acting all matey because Ronaldo took the mick and said he had good abs, and PM using him for publicity. I've not seen any clips of interview, but I suspect it will turn out to be a very poor decision by Ronaldo.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 14, 2022)

That's a special level of narcissism. Self centred, utterly unprofessional. Hand your training kit back, he shouldn't even get through the gates again.


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## Beezerk (Nov 14, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's a special level of narcissism. Self centred, utterly unprofessional. Hand your training kit back, he shouldn't even get through the gates again.
		
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He’ll be gone come January no doubt.
I never understood why he didn’t choose a “smaller” club to end his career at, somewhere he’d be in the team week in week out and be idolised by the fans for generations “remember when Ronald played for us back in xxxx”.
Then again I’m not taking into account how huge his ego is, surprised he got through the tv studio doors 🙈


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## Junior (Nov 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			*He wasn't the problem last season* The team were, clearly. Remember a guy called OGS that was manager. Remember players like McFred, Maguire and Wan Bissaka that everyone liked to remind us were awful? I don't remember ten Hag being at the club last season.

But, since he said he wanted to leave, after ten Hag said he was in his plans, has caused the problem. Missing pre season was a problem. It gave others a chance, and ten Hag has decided to favour guys who are more likely to be there longer term. Rightly so, Ronaldo could be gone January.

Ronaldo is burning his bridges. Piers Morgan, the weasel that he is, is feeding on that. Acting all matey because Ronaldo took the mick and said he had good abs, and PM using him for publicity. I've not seen any clips of interview, but I suspect it will turn out to be a very poor decision by Ronaldo.
		
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I agree with everything you say apart from the piece where you say he wasn't the problem.  His attitude along with the likes of Pogba were part of the problem. 

Look how good Rashford, Fernández, Martial etc etc have looked this season.  It's like they have a new lease of life now the TEAM isn't "Ronaldo United".   Granted, other signings (Erikesen and Martinez in particular) have helped, but for the first time in years there's passion in this side and they are playing for the shirt. 

The irony of saying to Piers Morgan that he feels betrayed by Utd, at a time when the team appears to be turning a corner.  The same utd for whom he didn't turn up for pre season training and wanted away from the club in the Summer ???  Bridges well and truly burnt.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 14, 2022)

Junior said:



			I agree with everything you say apart from the piece where you say he wasn't the problem.  His attitude along with the likes of Pogba were part of the problem.

Look how good Rashford, Fernández, Martial etc etc have looked this season.  It's like they have a new lease of life now the TEAM isn't "Ronaldo United".   Granted, other signings (Erikesen and Martinez in particular) have helped, but for the first time in years there's passion in this side and they are playing for the shirt.

The irony of saying to Piers Morgan that he feels betrayed by Utd, at a time when the team appears to be turning a corner.  The same utd for whom he didn't turn up for pre season training and wanted away from the club in the Summer ???  Bridges well and truly burnt.
		
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Indeed, but I wouldn't say Rashford has improved this season simply because Ronaldo hasn't started (and thet still train together). I think he has improved because the new manager has brought positivity and direction to how the team play. He had probably been coached much better, and as you day, 2 or 3 good players coming into the club. 

Ronaldo did what he needed to do last year. If the team played poorly, that is on the players who played poorly, along with the manager and back room staff. Pogba rarely performed, so indeed he was one of the big issues at the club. 

Ronaldo started to cause the problem when he announced he wanted to leave publicly. I can understand why he wanted to leave, but it should have been done behind closed doors. Although, perhaps he made it public as some upstairs at club refused to let him go? Who knows. But, he should have been allowed to leave, unless ten Hag was adamant he wanted him as his main striker, and Ronaldo was happy with that (not being in Champions League). Keeping an unhappy high profile player is stupid. Just like it was stupid keeping Pogba so long. 

Ronaldo was childish leaving the match early the other week. After his one game suspension, that seemed to have been put behind him, and it appeared he was at least willing to go with the flow for the little time he had left at the club. So, the Piers Morgan interview seems odd to the extreme. Clearly there is no way back if he has actually slagged off the manager and some players. And it will hardly win him fans outside the club either. 

Ronaldo has nothing to prove from a football standpoint. The only thing he has to prove is his ability to be a leader, support his team and drive those around him to succeed, rather than being a person who is purely selfish. He is failing on that front pretty spectacularly


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## Junior (Nov 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Indeed, but I wouldn't say Rashford has improved this season simply because Ronaldo hasn't started (and thet still train together). I think he has improved because the new manager has brought positivity and direction to how the team play. He had probably been coached much better, and as you day, 2 or 3 good players coming into the club. 

Ronaldo did what he needed to do last year. If the team played poorly, that is on the players who played poorly, along with the manager and back room staff. Pogba rarely performed, so indeed he was one of the big issues at the club. 

Ronaldo started to cause the problem when he announced he wanted to leave publicly. I can understand why he wanted to leave, but it should have been done behind closed doors. Although, perhaps he made it public as some upstairs at club refused to let him go? Who knows. But, he should have been allowed to leave, unless ten Hag was adamant he wanted him as his main striker, and Ronaldo was happy with that (not being in Champions League). Keeping an unhappy high profile player is stupid. Just like it was stupid keeping Pogba so long. 

Ronaldo was childish leaving the match early the other week. After his one game suspension, that seemed to have been put behind him, and it appeared he was at least willing to go with the flow for the little time he had left at the club. So, the Piers Morgan interview seems odd to the extreme. Clearly there is no way back if he has actually slagged off the manager and some players. And it will hardly win him fans outside the club either. 

Ronaldo has nothing to prove from a football standpoint. The only thing he has to prove is his ability to be a leader, support his team and drive those around him to succeed, rather than being a person who is purely selfish. He is failing on that front pretty spectacularly
		
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It might be the coaching, but the team plays better without him.  A legend like Ronaldo should be the catalyst for improvement.  He knows what its like to win and should be inspiring the players around him not acting like a spoilt child.


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## Slime (Nov 14, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Explosive stuff from Ronaldo, talk about burning his bridges!!
I'm not surpised  at this interview, there was no way he was allowing EtH to drop him, fine him and make an example of him the way he did a couple of weeks ago.

*Last season fans were telling us Ronaldo wasnt the problem??* 🤔🤔
		
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That's because, last season, he wasn't the problem.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 14, 2022)

Junior said:



			It might be the coaching, but the team plays better without him.  A legend like Ronaldo should be the catalyst for improvement.  He knows what its like to win and should be inspiring the players around him not acting like a spoilt child.
		
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I agree, Ronaldo should inspire those around him. And it is clear that is his weakness off the pitch, I can't argue he had acted like a spoilt child (I can understand his frustrations, but there are ways to deal with that much better than he had done). 

But, if he was the problem last season, it had nothing to do with his performances as a footballer. It will be because he failed to inspire those around him. If that is the accusation, then the problem lies with the squad of 20+ other players and manager. Imagine a team made up of individuals who fail to perform because one player doesn't inspire them. 

He has become a problem this season. Any player is when they announce they don't want to be there, and certainly when they have no change of heart, and especially when the manager has no burning desire to have that player as a key member of the team. The United hierarchy still seem confused to understand when the right moment is to get rid of a player from the team. I mean, Phil Jones is still on the payroll for goodness sake.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I agree, Ronaldo should inspire those around him. And it is clear that is his weakness off the pitch, I can't argue he had acted like a spoilt child (I can understand his frustrations, but there are ways to deal with that much better than he had done).

But, if he was the problem last season, it had nothing to do with his performances as a footballer. It will be because he failed to inspire those around him. If that is the accusation, then the problem lies with the squad of 20+ other players and manager. Imagine a team made up of individuals who fail to perform because one player doesn't inspire them.

He has become a problem this season. Any player is when they announce they don't want to be there, and certainly when they have no change of heart, and especially when the manager has no burning desire to have that player as a key member of the team. The United hierarchy still seem confused to understand when the right moment is to get rid of a player from the team. *I mean, Phil Jones is still on the payroll for goodness sake.*

Click to expand...

I still find this amazing, that dude has the best job in the world man


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 14, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			He’ll be gone come January no doubt.
I never understood why he didn’t choose a “smaller” club to end his career at, somewhere he’d be in the team week in week out and be idolised by the fans for generations “remember when Ronald played for us back in xxxx”.
Then again I’m not taking into account how huge his ego is, surprised he got through the tv studio doors 🙈
		
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I heard it was filmed on the Bond stage at Pinewood Studios. How else would they fit those two egos in one room 

I agree with your point about knowing when and how to wind down. Back to ego though. I hope that this backfires as spectacularly as it looks so far.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 14, 2022)

What I don’t get with the Ronaldo's, Pogbas, Toures etc is the people they have around them. The ones that are supposed to advise them. I get they may want out, but to ostracise yourselves from your team mates, the club, especially the fans who adore the badge. I just don’t get it. 
I have always felt it is about Brand Ronaldo and not Utd, Madrid or Juve. This kinda sums him up to me.
That said. who would really want him after Christmas. He had half a season left to help Utd get to play champs league football for next season. They still could qualify for it without him. But I would not touch him with a barge pole. He is poison.


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## Junior (Nov 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I agree, Ronaldo should inspire those around him. And it is clear that is his weakness off the pitch, I can't argue he had acted like a spoilt child (I can understand his frustrations, but there are ways to deal with that much better than he had done). 

But, if he was the problem last season, it had nothing to do with his performances as a footballer. It will be because he failed to inspire those around him. If that is the accusation, then the problem lies with the squad of 20+ other players and manager. Imagine a team made up of individuals who fail to perform because one player doesn't inspire them. 

He has become a problem this season. Any player is when they announce they don't want to be there, and certainly when they have no change of heart, and especially when the manager has no burning desire to have that player as a key member of the team. The United hierarchy still seem confused to understand when the right moment is to get rid of a player from the team. I mean, Phil Jones is still on the payroll for goodness sake.
		
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He was part of the problem, as they all were.  Its a slow process to turn the ship around, but ETH has bought players with the right character and the signs are promising.

I wonder where he will go in January ?  It'll be awkward if no one comes in for him.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			What I don’t get with the Ronaldo's, Pogbas, Toures etc is the people they have around them. The ones that are supposed to advise them. I get they may want out, but to ostracise yourselves from your team mates, the club, especially the fans who adore the badge. I just don’t get it.
I have always felt it is about Brand Ronaldo and not Utd, Madrid or Juve. This kinda sums him up to me.
That said. *who would really want him after Christmas*. He had half a season left to help Utd get to play champs league football for next season. They still could qualify for it without him. But I would not touch him with a barge pole. He is poison.
		
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Agree with you Tashy! And in answer to who wants him - a Saudi team was the only one coming in for him in summer... So no one..


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## Swango1980 (Nov 14, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			What I don’t get with the Ronaldo's, Pogbas, Toures etc is the people they have around them. The ones that are supposed to advise them. I get they may want out, but to ostracise yourselves from your team mates, the club, especially the fans who adore the badge. I just don’t get it.
*I have always felt it is about Brand Ronaldo and not Utd, Madrid or Juve. *This kinda sums him up to me.
That said. who would really want him after Christmas. He had half a season left to help Utd get to play champs league football for next season. They still could qualify for it without him. But I would not touch him with a barge pole. He is poison.
		
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I'm sure you are right, he has always been selfish. In many respects, it has served him well. However, you are right about the people around him who are meant to be his advisers. I wonder if he actually has any proper advisers, or he just sacks the ones that don't agree with him? Because this interview does not help brand Ronaldo. It does the complete opposite. There are plenty of fans outside Man Utd and Real Madrid that hate Ronaldo anyway, which is natural when someone does come across selfish and they've been hugely successful at clubs these fans dislike. The interview does not turn their opinions round, just strengthens them. At same time, he is now alienating many of the fans that support the clubs he has been successful for (specifically man Utd). I wonder what his Portuguese team mates think, and the Portuguese people? I'm sure it is not the distraction they wanted going into the World Cup. I'd like to see how Ronaldo, Bruno Fernandes and Dalot get on in training camp in the next week or so.

You are exactly right, what clubs are going to start rushing out to want to buy him now? I'd be very surprised if a big club, still competing at the top, does.

Heard Piers Morgan speaking on Talksport on way to work. He refuses to say when the interview was filmed. Would be interesting to know. I remember Ronaldo saying, just before the transfer window closed, that we would all know the truth in a week. I wonder if the interview was filmed before then, and he originally felt it would be aired in a week or so? Then it was delayed because he didn't get his move, and it would be too awkward for him. So they've now released it now to force a move, as the start of the season has not worked out well for him. Not sure if the interview specifically covers anything that has happened since the transfer window closed?


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## Neilds (Nov 14, 2022)

Ronaldo made me laugh when Portugal won the Euros in 2016 and really showed himself up as someone who thinks they are bigger than the team.  He went off injured very early on and then danced around in the celebrations as though he had scored 5 goals and run the match.  He made sure he was front and centre in all the photos despite only scoring 3 goals int he whole tournament!


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## Orikoru (Nov 14, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Ronaldo made me laugh when Portugal won the Euros in 2016 and really showed himself up as someone who thinks they are bigger than the team.  He went off injured very early on and then danced around in the celebrations as though he had scored 5 goals and run the match.  He made sure he was front and centre in all the photos despite only scoring 3 goals int he whole tournament!
		
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He was the team captain though? And I remember him hobbling around the touchline with the manager for the entire match when he could hardly walk, cheering and giving instructions to his teammates. I guess you can look at it whichever way you want but I didn't really see that as a negative on him. Would you rather he just disappeared down the tunnel and didn't care if his teammates won the trophy or not?


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## Neilds (Nov 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He was the team captain though? And I remember him hobbling around the touchline with the manager for the entire match when he could hardly walk, cheering and giving instructions to his teammates. I guess you can look at it whichever way you want but I didn't really see that as a negative on him. Would you rather he just disappeared down the tunnel and didn't care if his teammates won the trophy or not?
		
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I'm not referring to his actions during the game, I am on about how he acted after the game, totally over the top in my opinion given his limited impact on the game (and the whole tournament)


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## Orikoru (Nov 14, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I'm not referring to his actions during the game, I am on about how he acted after the game, totally over the top in my opinion given his limited impact on the game (and the whole tournament)
		
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As I recall the entire Portugal team was crap all tournament and it was a travesty that they won it at all. It was a sad inditement of the tournament format that allowed them to get through the group with three draws and only 3 points, then grind their way through the knockouts with penalty shoot-outs and extra time goals.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 14, 2022)

Neilds said:



			I'm not referring to his actions during the game, I am on about how he acted after the game, totally over the top in my opinion given his limited impact on the game (and the whole tournament)
		
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Come on now, what do you expect? His team just won the Euros. I bet there were players celebrating who hadn't played a minute all tournament. And, clearly the camera would be well and truly pointed at Ronaldo at all times. He was hardly going to sit there and barely celebrate at all. If he had toned down his celebrations, he'd have been criticised for not being happy for his team mates, and being selfish because he did not play a big part in the final, and thus holding back on his celebrations.

There is no way his actions can be justified this season. However, all this nonsense about him being THE problem at Utd last season, and loads of criticism he has had during his career says more about opposing fans than it does about Ronaldo. Whatever he does, he cannot win to many fans, there will be plenty of fans who will try and find any possible way at all to throw mud. He could have scored 60+ goals in a season, won leagues and champions leagues, and there will be millions who cannot give him any credit whatsoever. Instead, they try to find as many ways as possible to discredit Ronaldo. Finally, it looks like he is giving them an open goal


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## Dando (Nov 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Come on now, what do you expect? His team just won the Euros. I bet there were players celebrating who hadn't played a minute all tournament. And, clearly the camera would be well and truly pointed at Ronaldo at all times. He was hardly going to sit there and barely celebrate at all. If he had toned down his celebrations, he'd have been criticised for not being happy for his team mates, and being selfish because he did not play a big part in the final, and thus holding back on his celebrations.

There is no way his actions can be justified this season. However, all this nonsense about him being THE problem at Utd last season, and loads of criticism he has had during his career says more about opposing fans than it does about Ronaldo. Whatever he does, he cannot win to many fans, there will be plenty of fans who will try and find any possible way at all to throw mud. He could have scored 60+ goals in a season, won leagues and champions leagues, and there will be millions who cannot give him any credit whatsoever. Instead, they try to find as many ways as possible to discredit Ronaldo. Finally, it looks like he is giving them an open goal
		
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I heard that John Terry was spotted in the tunnel in a Portugal kit


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 14, 2022)

Ronaldo has always been about Ronaldo 

It will never surprise me the stuff that he comes out with 

Maybe someone in the MLS will pay his huge wages - oh oops he can’t go there can be


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## Bdill93 (Nov 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ronaldo has always been about Ronaldo

It will never surprise me the stuff that he comes out with

Maybe someone in the MLS will pay his huge wages - *oh oops he can’t go there can be*

Click to expand...

What am I missing here?


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## Dando (Nov 14, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			What am I missing here? 

Click to expand...

the rape charge bars him from entering the US


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 14, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			What am I missing here? 

Click to expand...

There was a civil rape case against him in 2009 I think it was - he paid some money for it to go away and then there were some other people coming forward etc

Tbink the case was dismissed recently as they didn’t think he would get a fair trial but he has avoided the US to ensure there wasn’t a trial


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 14, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592071273219522562
😂


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## Bdill93 (Nov 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There was a civil rape case against him in 2009 I think it was - he paid some money for it to go away and then there were some other people coming forward etc

Tbink the case was dismissed recently as they didn’t think he would get a fair trial but he has avoided the US to ensure there wasn’t a trial
		
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Ahhh Ronny you dirty dog


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 14, 2022)

Junior said:



			Not me pal.  Always said we we would be better without him in the side, despite the goals.  We got him to stop Man Citeh buying him.  It set the club back.

He's let the team and the club down imo. He might not be far off the mark with what he is saying but dont air your dirty laundry in public with Piers Morgan while you're still being paid a small fortune every week.  ETH didn't have to bow to his ego and "show him respect" , he did right and treated him like every other player. Respect is earned and not turning up fornpre season and then marching down the tunnel refusing to come on as a sub isn't the way to go about it.

Perfect timing too. A month's break and the January transfer window opens.  No-one would pay £12 million for him last summer because of his astronomical wages.
		
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Why aren't all Man U fans like you, Andy? 

Spot on.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 14, 2022)

Just another point on this Ronaldo interview. It strikes me as an extremely cowardly thing for him to be doing. He has basically dropped this bombshell immediately after United's last game before the break (perhaps because he knew he might still be with his work colleagues up until yesterday evening). He phoned in sick, to make sure he wasn't around them when the news broke. And, now that everything has become public, he is half way around the world and he does not have to look anyone at the club in the eye, and have some awkward conversations (apart from his Portuguese team mates). So, he will hope that things will have calmed down by the time he gets back, decisions will have been made, and he will get his wish to leave.

I suspect the interview would have been released / scheduled immediately after the transfer window in the summer, had he left. Again, so he wouldn't have to face his work colleagues.


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## GB72 (Nov 14, 2022)

Could even be a more calculated risk. If he wants a new cllub, all of the media will be focused on him at the start of the world cup, the can write his own media agenda and any decent on pitch performances will be headline news. That cannot be a bad thing if you want to boost interest in your signature. 

Interesting to see a few comments that there is more to come out of this interview. Certainly would not be unusual to drip feed all of the real bombshells over a few days to build up hype. Wonder what else is left to come.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 14, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Could even be a more calculated risk. If he wants a new cllub, all of the media will be focused on him at the start of the world cup, the can write his own media agenda and any decent on pitch performances will be headline news. That cannot be a bad thing if you want to boost interest in your signature.

Interesting to see a few comments that there is more to come out of this interview. Certainly would not be unusual to drip feed all of the real bombshells over a few days to build up hype. Wonder what else is left to come.
		
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Well, the interview is 90 minutes long. I've only heard about 2 or 3 minutes worth, so I imagine there is a lot more to come. Unless the other 85 minutes or so is Piers Morgan showing his flabby torso and Ronaldo telling him how great his muscles are 

He possibly hopes one of the "positive" aspects are that it will heighten his publicity before the World Cup. But, let's be honest, had Ronaldo been a good boy all season, and quietly sat on the bench, he'd still have been a huge talking point at the World Cup regardless. Just like Messi and Mbappe will always be huge talking points. In reality, the interview can only drive negative feelings towards Ronaldo. What club wants a player who will openly slag everyone off within that club if things do not go as well as you hoped (especially the few that can afford him)?

I'd love to hear Wayne Rooney's reaction to the interview. Tevez and Rooney did a hell of a lot for Ronaldo in his first Man Utd spell. They ran themselves to the ground for the sake of the team, whilst Ronaldo benefited hugely from an attacking point of view. I think Rooney has always been pretty supportive and complimentary of Ronaldo and his career as well, but he simply stated the obvious that he has not acted in the best way this year. For Ronaldo to get very personal about Rooney, and how he looked, is bizarre.


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## Slime (Nov 14, 2022)

Enough of him ..................................................... how good a prospect does Garnacho look?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			Enough of him ..................................................... how good a prospect does Garnacho look?  

Click to expand...

Very, but also very early days. The great thing is that he doesn't hide away, and is extremely confident in getting involved in the action. The complete opposite attitude of deBeek


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## Ian_George (Nov 14, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Could even be a more calculated risk. If he wants a new cllub, all of the media will be focused on him at the start of the world cup, the can write his own media agenda and any decent on pitch performances will be headline news. That cannot be a bad thing if you want to boost interest in your signature.

Interesting to see a few comments that there is more to come out of this interview. *Certainly would not be unusual to drip feed all of the real bombshells over a few days to build up hype.* Wonder what else is left to come.
		
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Seems a familiar technique!


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## 4LEX (Nov 14, 2022)

Ronaldo's behaviour has been poor all season. Ever since he announced he wanted to leave, Man Utd should have paid his contract off and signed a younger striker on the way up. To keep him and not sign a replacement was madness from ETH. It's obvious Utd are better without him but the way ETH has handled it has been poor.

To leave him on the bench out of respect against City was a smart move but to then humiliate him by trying to bring him off the bench for 2 minutes in a game already finished was needless, not that I agree with Ronaldo refusing to come on. The way he was brought back so quickly after that was also bizarre and weak. Theres no way Ronaldo is ill, he's obviously been dropped and ETH was too scared to say, hence this interview. Ronaldo is different to any other player bar Messi, you've got to handle him properly and they've messed it up. For a club the size of Man Utd to be humilated by one of their greatest players is a new low.

His comments on Rooney and Rangnick are pathetic but lot of what he says about the structure of the club and the way it's run is true. The last decade has been embarrassing with mismanagement at every turn. The club is still destined to fail because everyone from the owners, CEO and DOF through to the manager and coaches aren't good enough to deliver major trophies. It's just the same stuff every season. Poor transfer policy, huge signings and wages with no medium or long term goal. The fans are blind to it and put faith in each new manager but if you keep doing the same thing you're going to keep getting the same results. 

For a supposedly attacking manager to inherit a very good squad, spend nearly £200m and have a level goal difference is actually laughable.


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## Slime (Nov 14, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Ronaldo's behaviour has been poor all season. Ever since he announced he wanted to leave, Man Utd should have paid his contract off and signed a younger striker on the way up. *To keep him and not sign a replacement was madness from ETH.* It's obvious Utd are better without him but *the way ETH has handled it has been poor.*

To leave him on the bench out of respect against City was a smart move *but to then humiliate him by trying to bring him off the bench for 2 minutes in a game already finished was needless*, not that I agree with Ronaldo refusing to come on. *The way he was brought back so quickly after that was also bizarre and weak.* Theres no way Ronaldo is ill, *he's obviously been dropped and ETH was too scared to say, hence this interview.* Ronaldo is different to any other player bar Messi, you've got to handle him properly and they've messed it up. *For a club the size of Man Utd to be humilated by one of their greatest players is a new low.*

His comments on Rooney and Rangnick are pathetic but *lot of what he says about the structure of the club and the way it's run is true.* The last decade has been embarrassing with mismanagement at every turn. *The club is still destined to fail because everyone from the owners, CEO and DOF through to the manager and coaches aren't good enough* to deliver major trophies. It's just the same stuff every season. Poor transfer policy, huge signings and wages with no medium or long term goal. *The fans are blind to it *and put faith in each new manager but if you keep doing the same thing you're going to keep getting the same results.

For a supposedly attacking manager to inherit a very good squad, spend nearly £200m *and have a level goal difference is actually laughable.*

Click to expand...



There's so much in the above post that is just wrong.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 14, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Ronaldo's behaviour has been poor all season. Ever since he announced he wanted to leave, Man Utd should have paid his contract off and signed a younger striker on the way up. To keep him and not sign a replacement was madness from ETH. It's obvious Utd are better without him but the way ETH has handled it has been poor.

To leave him on the bench out of respect against City was a smart move but to then humiliate him by trying to bring him off the bench for 2 minutes in a game already finished was needless, not that I agree with Ronaldo refusing to come on. The way he was brought back so quickly after that was also bizarre and weak. Theres no way Ronaldo is ill, he's obviously been dropped and ETH was too scared to say, hence this interview. Ronaldo is different to any other player bar Messi, you've got to handle him properly and they've messed it up. For a club the size of Man Utd to be humilated by one of their greatest players is a new low.

His comments on Rooney and Rangnick are pathetic but lot of what he says about the structure of the club and the way it's run is true. The last decade has been embarrassing with mismanagement at every turn. The club is still destined to fail because everyone from the owners, CEO and DOF through to the manager and coaches aren't good enough to deliver major trophies. It's just the same stuff every season. Poor transfer policy, huge signings and wages with no medium or long term goal. The fans are blind to it and put faith in each new manager but if you keep doing the same thing you're going to keep getting the same results.

For a supposedly attacking manager to inherit a very good squad, spend nearly £200m and have a level goal difference is actually laughable.
		
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I just can't get round to the point that this is ten Hags fault. None of us really know what has gone on behind closed doors.

I suspect ten Hag was privately quite happy for Ronaldo to leave. The fact he has no burning to ever play him suggests that, and I seriously doubt he'll have been begging Ronaldo to stay behind the scenes, knowing he is lying to him and actually doesn't see him as a key player in the side.

I think he may well have been honest about that early on, and that had offended Ronaldo. Ronaldo then reacted by publicly saying he wanted to leave (maybe he wanted to anyway), so it was on his terms. He didn't get his move, partly because there were no takers, and maybe partly because some of the hierarchy wanted him for commercial reasons.

Either way, transfer window passed, and he remained at a club he knew that had a manager that didn't see him as a first team player week in, week out. This has hurt Ronaldo's ego, and he has publicly reacted several times to try and get the world to believe he has been treated badly. Ten Hag has done all he can do. He can hardly come out and just say Ronaldo is a player he doesn't want. Instead he has to be diplomatic and work with the cards he has been dealt, try and put as positive a spin on it he can.

But, I agree that, as soon as Ronaldo said he wanted to leave, the club should have done their absolute best to make it happen. I am sure ten Hag would have supported that, and absolutely welcomed a younger striker that fits his system.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 15, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592182415304568832
😂😂


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## Stuart_C (Nov 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I just can't get round to the point that this is ten Hags fault. None of us really know what has gone on behind closed doors.

I suspect ten Hag was privately quite happy for Ronaldo to leave. The fact he has no burning to ever play him suggests that, and I seriously doubt he'll have been begging Ronaldo to stay behind the scenes, knowing he is lying to him and actually doesn't see him as a key player in the side.

I think he may well have been honest about that early on, and that had offended Ronaldo. Ronaldo then reacted by publicly saying he wanted to leave (maybe he wanted to anyway), so it was on his terms. He didn't get his move, partly because there were no takers, and maybe partly because some of the hierarchy wanted him for commercial reasons.

Either way, transfer window passed, and he remained at a club he knew that had a manager that didn't see him as a first team player week in, week out. This has hurt Ronaldo's ego, and he has publicly reacted several times to try and get the world to believe he has been treated badly. Ten Hag has done all he can do. He can hardly come out and just say Ronaldo is a player he doesn't want. Instead he has to be diplomatic and work with the cards he has been dealt, try and put as positive a spin on it he can.

*But, I agree that, as soon as Ronaldo said he wanted to leave, the club should have done their absolute best to make it happen. I am sure ten Hag would have supported that, and absolutely welcomed a younger striker that fits his system.*

Click to expand...

It's not as easy as that. 

Who, in world football, can afford  to pay a fee and  take his £500,000 per week wages on?

Yernited have invested an extortionate amount of money into beinging back Ronaldo, they cant be expected to just rip up his contract just because he doesnt like the manager or they've failed to qualify for CL football. 

This isnt FIFA 23 or Championship manager.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 15, 2022)

The man is being payed £26M a year, it’s obvious he has no  idea of the real World. 
He may have been one of the best, but he’s not now and no other mug is going to pay those wages to what is a spoilt brat has been.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 15, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It's not as easy as that.

Who, in world football, can afford  to pay a fee and  take his £500,000 per week wages on?

Yernited have invested an extortionate amount of money into beinging back Ronaldo, they cant be expected to just rip up his contract just because he doesnt like the manager or they've failed to qualify for CL football.

This isnt FIFA 23 or Championship manager.
		
Click to expand...

I agree it is not easy, I was only saying that once he said he wanted to leave, club should have done their best to facilitate that. Maybe they did, and just found it impossible to get any takers, maybe they didn't. It is impossible to know what has happened behind the scenes anyway. 

I wonder if the initial contract could have been written better? Such as a one year contract, with an extension depended on getting into Champions League. Thought that might have worked out better for both parties.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 15, 2022)

Do Utd expect to get a fee for Ronaldo? If not, surely they have a case here for gross misconduct and tear up his contract. What other line of work could you hammer your employer and expect to remain in work, keep getting paid?


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## Swango1980 (Nov 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do Utd expect to get a fee for Ronaldo? If not, surely they have a case here for gross misconduct and tear up his contract. What other line of work could you hammer your employer and expect to remain in work, keep getting paid?
		
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Do they expect a fee? I'd say absolutely not. There didn't seem to be any takers for him anyway in the summer, so they won't be rushing out to pay money for him now. Even if any club would like him, they'll know Utd will probably be desperate to get rid of him as cleanly as possible, so may well just ask for him for free (maybe even ask Utd to pay his wages!?)

Not sure exactly, not sure how is contract is written up and what all the legal implications could be. But, if you do a 90 minute interview effectively slagging off your employers and manager, then that must tick a gross misconduct box? I mean, I'm pretty sure players need to be mega careful what they post on social media, let alone say in a 90 minute interview with Piers Morgan.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Do they expect a fee? I'd say absolutely not. There didn't seem to be any takers for him anyway in the summer, so they won't be rushing out to pay money for him now. Even if any club would like him, they'll know Utd will probably be desperate to get rid of him as cleanly as possible, so may well just ask for him for free (maybe even ask Utd to pay his wages!?)

Not sure exactly, not sure how is contract is written up and what all the legal implications could be. But, if you do a 90 minute interview effectively slagging off your employers and manager, then that must tick a gross misconduct box? I mean, I'm pretty sure players need to be mega careful what they post on social media, let alone say in a 90 minute interview with Piers Morgan.
		
Click to expand...

That's my thinking. If Utd can rip up his contract then they are literally saving millions, apart from the satisfaction level of sacking him in disgrace.


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## Slime (Nov 15, 2022)

Just tear up the contract and tell him to go.
Let's face it, his value as an asset has now evaporated.
I can't see many fans investing in a Ronaldo shirt from now on and, in my opinion, that's what he was signed up for.
The fact that he scored a couple of dozen goals last season was an unexpected bonus, especially considering the team he was playing in!


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do Utd expect to get a fee for Ronaldo? If not, surely they have a case here for gross misconduct and tear up his contract. What other line of work could you hammer your employer and expect to remain in work, keep getting paid?
		
Click to expand...

MP


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 15, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			MP
		
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Ha ha, although MP's are answerable to their constituents so........okay, I get your point


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Do they expect a fee? I'd say absolutely not. There didn't seem to be any takers for him anyway in the summer, so they won't be rushing out to pay money for him now. Even if any club would like him, they'll know Utd will probably be desperate to get rid of him as cleanly as possible, so may well just ask for him for free *(maybe even ask Utd to pay his wages!?)*

Not sure exactly, not sure how is contract is written up and what all the legal implications could be. But, if you do a 90 minute interview effectively slagging off your employers and manager, then that must tick a gross misconduct box? I mean, I'm pretty sure players need to be mega careful what they post on social media, let alone say in a 90 minute interview with Piers Morgan.
		
Click to expand...

From what I have read, that is the reason he didn't go in the summer. Utd weren't prepared to cover his wages as no one was willing to pay the stupid amount he is currently on.


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## fundy (Nov 16, 2022)

Maybe Untied should deploy their inner Musk 🤣🤣🤣

NEW: Employees who have criticized Elon Musk in Twitter’s Slack channels were fired overnight over email.  “We regret to inform you that your employment is terminated immediately,” they’re being told over email. “Your recent behavior has violated company policy.”


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			Maybe Untied should deploy their inner Musk 🤣🤣🤣

NEW: Employees who have criticized Elon Musk in Twitter’s Slack channels were fired overnight over email.  “We regret to inform you that your employment is terminated immediately,” they’re being told over email. “Your recent behavior has violated company policy.”
		
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Just get Musk to buy the club.
That would sort Ronaldo out.
Players have responsibility just as much as the club.
The contracts are very complicated but you can’t have employees saying that about his employers.
UTD won’t get a fee for him so just terminate his contract.
See you in court.


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

What line-up are we predicting then?

Pickford
Stones Dier Maguire
Trippier Rice Bellingham Shaw
Sterling Kane Foden​


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Pickford
Trippier Stones Maguire Shaw
Rice Bellingham Mount
Saka Kane Sterling


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Pickford
Trippier Stones Maguire Shaw
Rice Bellingham Mount
Saka Kane Sterling
		
Click to expand...

You reckon he'll deviate from the wing backs?


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			You reckon he'll deviate from the wing backs?
		
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obviously, or id have picked 3 at the back 

btw i dont like the side, its just what i think hell shoehorn on the pitch


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			obviously, or id have picked 3 at the back 

btw i dont like the side, its just what i think hell shoehorn on the pitch
		
Click to expand...

I just thought the old wing back system was pretty set in stone now. I guess I haven't watched every England game in the last six months though. 

Would he drop Foden? Our most creative player pretty much?


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Decent argument to have him over Mount in that line up (I would every time) but think he goes for the safer pair of hands in midfield and then chooses between Saka and Foden for the last spot up top


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## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Pickford
Trippier Stones Maguire Shaw
Rice Bellingham Mount
Saka Kane Sterling
		
Click to expand...

Nailed it for me! 

Only question mark in my mind is does Foden start over Mount but I don't think Gareth see's Foden as a CM


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## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I just thought the old wing back system was pretty set in stone now. I guess I haven't watched every England game in the last six months though.

Would he drop Foden? Our most creative player pretty much?
		
Click to expand...

Our most creative prem player maybe - but he's never quite played to the same level for England. 

And we all know Gareth loves Mount


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Nailed it for me!

Only question mark in my mind is does Foden start over Mount but I don't think Gareth see's Foden as a CM
		
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If it's 4-2-3-1 you would think Foden in the number 10. But fundy is probably right (unfortunately) and he'd go Mount as he's got more discipline.


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



*Our most creative prem player maybe - but he's never quite played to the same level for England.*

And we all know Gareth loves Mount
		
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Well he plays for a much better team than England.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			If it's 4-2-3-1 you would think Foden in the number 10. But fundy is probably right (unfortunately) and he'd go Mount as he's got more discipline.
		
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Discipline is BS, Gareth just likes Mount more  There is no other reason!

It'll be a 4-3-3 today I reckon. Cant go weak against Iran


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## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Well he plays for a much better team than England. 

Click to expand...

Exactly. He doesn't get the ball in the same positions for England as he does City. Less Effective. 

Should just put him in at CM but we wont.


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## Swingalot (Nov 21, 2022)

What it should be:

Ramsdale
Trippier Stones Dier Shaw
Bellingham Rice
Saka, Foden, Grealish
Kane

What I fear it will be:

Pickford
Tripper Dier, Maguir Stones Shaw        
Rice Bellingham
Saka, Kane, Stirling

If he doesn't pick Foden, no in fact build the frigging team around Foden, it will be criminal.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			What it should be:

*Ramsdale
Trippier Stones Dier Shaw
Bellingham Rice
Saka, Foden, Grealish
Kane*

What I fear it will be:

Pickford
Tripper Dier, Maguir Stones Shaw       
Rice Bellingham
Saka, Kane, Stirling

If he doesn't pick Foden, no in fact build the frigging team around Foden, it will be criminal.
		
Click to expand...

Cracking team. I rate Ramsdale highly but I'd still start Pickford for now. He's been incredible in every tournament for England and that really does mean something.

Foden and Grealish on the bench today is going to make my blood boil - two of the most talented players we have produced in years.


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## Piece (Nov 21, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			What it should be:

Ramsdale
Trippier Stones Dier Shaw
Bellingham Rice
Saka, Foden, Grealish
Kane

What I fear it will be:

*Pickford
Tripper, Dier, Rice, Maguire, Bellingham, Stones, Shaw       *
<space>
*Saka, Sterling
Kane*

If he doesn't pick Foden, no in fact build the frigging team around Foden, it will be criminal.
		
Click to expand...

Corrected for you


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2022)

Thought it’s already been leaked ?

Pickford 

Trippier
Stones 
Maguire 😂
Shaw

Rice 
Bellingham 
Mount 

Sterling 
Kane
Saka


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## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

Well we were pretty much bob on.

Not the most inspiring team but lets get behind them anyway! Batter Iran and it'll be forgotten!


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## hairball_89 (Nov 21, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			What it should be:

Ramsdale
Trippier Stones Dier Shaw
Bellingham Rice
Saka, Foden, Grealish
Kane

What I fear it will be:

Pickford
Tripper Dier, Maguir Stones Shaw       
Rice Bellingham
Saka, Kane, Stirling

If he doesn't pick Foden, no in fact build the frigging team around Foden, it will be criminal.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this entirely. Apart from I’d have Tomori ahead of Dier. He’s the inform English centre back for me. The fact he hasn’t gone is a travesty.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

That’s a pen surely.
VAR not working then.


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Concussion protocols as good as VAR then............


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## BrianM (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Concussion protocols as good as VAR then............
		
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Was some clatter as well 😬


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## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Concussion protocols as good as VAR then............
		
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I think Iran play under different human rights protocols


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think Iran play under different human rights protocols
		
Click to expand...


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Shall we try and keep to one thread and use the WC one?


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## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Shall we try and keep to one thread and use the WC one?
		
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I kind of thought the WC thread was more about bloody Qatar and One Love armbands and all that nonsense and we could make this thread about the actual football.


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I kind of thought the WC thread was more about bloody Qatar and One Love armbands and all that nonsense and we could make this thread about the actual football. 

Click to expand...

Yup you were right it seems lol


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## Bdill93 (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Yup you were right it seems lol
		
Click to expand...


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Turns out rugby tackles arent allowed at corners after all, who knew


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## pokerjoke (Nov 22, 2022)

Unfortunately it doesn’t matter how good the football is at this World Cup and who wins,it’s all going to be overshadowed by the unbelievably bad officiating and Var impact.
Peter Walton talking rubbish as usual,at least Dixon corrected him.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

The inconsistencies of VAR are mind boggling, with that first Argentina goal.

Another goal has just been ruled out for offside. Fair enough, but have any replays been shown yet to show why it was offside. Again, commentators seemed confused, and there was no graphic confirming the decision. Usually nice to see, just to see how close it was at least. I don't think it appeared offside at the time?


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## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The inconsistencies of VAR are mind boggling, with that first Argentina goal.

Another goal has just been ruled out for offside. Fair enough, but have any replays been shown yet to show why it was offside. Again, commentators seemed confused, and there was no graphic confirming the decision. Usually nice to see, just to see how close it was at least. I don't think it appeared offside at the time?
		
Click to expand...

They showed it eventually. In my mind he was level, but I'm sick of saying it now.


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## Rlburnside (Nov 22, 2022)

I noticed Alex Scott was wearing a one love armband before the England game, not matter what people’s thoughts on wearing the armband are at least she stood up for what she believed in, and good on her I say.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I noticed Alex Scott was wearing a one love armband before the England game, not matter what people’s thoughts on wearing the armband are at least she stood up for what she believed in, and good on her I say.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely, and fair play to her. However, at least she was able to make that decision on her own, and her employers would have presumably backed that decision. Unlike the players, who were asked directly by their employers, the FA, not to do so. And, if they did, then their actions could have negative consequences not just for them (in terms of potential negative feedback), but for their team mates and their nation. After all, if they ended up getting sent off, then there would also be a lot of criticism from a large amount of the English public for not focusing on their job, and focusing on a fight that is not necessarily theirs to have. The FA were directly told not to have their arm bands by FIFA, along with the footballing associations of other countries. For whatever reason, they all jointly reluctantly agreed not to wear the armband.

Personally, I'd have been happy enough to see them wear an armband, just as I am to see them take the knee. But, if they don't, then fair enough. They are footballers, so I'll judge them on that. On one hand, footballers get mocked and we are told that no footballer can ever be a role model, and then on the other hand you have fans expecting them to be the next Martin Luther King or Ghandi.

It has already been said that the biggest loser to come out of this is most likely FIFA, especially if countries are going to review their relationship with them going forward. FIFA constantly seem to bring the game into disrepute, and the various footballing associations are often harmed by this, being down the chain of command. Perhaps these footballing associations should have acted more strongly a long time ago, but for whatever reason they did not. If 5 or 6 of the biggest footballing associations did, for example by refusing to go to the World Cup at all, then that would have been a huge statement. Although, doing so purely on human rights issues would be considered hypocritical by many, when football, other sports and other businesses quite happily have many interactions with the Middle East, China, Russia, etc. The reality is, if we were to go in hard on human rights, we'd never play any sport outside Western Europe, North America, Japan and Australia (and to be fair, each of those countries still have questionable laws in regard to morality)


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## road2ruin (Nov 22, 2022)

Ronaldo leaves United with immediate effect, mutual consent etc etc


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2022)

road2ruin said:



			Ronaldo leaves United with immediate effect, mutual consent etc etc
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2022)

All a bit embarrassing all round to be honest 

Wonder which club will pick him up


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*All a bit embarrassing all round to be honest*

Wonder which club will pick him up
		
Click to expand...

On Ronaldo's part .......................... very.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			On Ronaldo's part .......................... very.
		
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I can't get my head around the spin that utd had some degree of fault here as well, as though Ronaldo should be treated differently to all other players. Sadly, utd will be the better for him going.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All a bit embarrassing all round to be honest

Wonder which club will pick him up
		
Click to expand...

Not sure what United did wrong. Ronaldo was a signed player and should have adhered to the rules like everyone else. You moan that people look for a Liverpool angle with your posts yet you can't resist having a dig at United when they weren't in the wrong. Ronaldo knew what he was doing and wanted to engineer a quick exit. Whether he'll get picked up by a club as he seems high risk is a different matter


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			On Ronaldo's part .......................... very.
		
Click to expand...

He has certainly made an idiot of himself and he was the poster boy of the poor recruitment policy at the time 

Was bought to stop another club getting him , given huge wages - club should have to got it sorted in the summer , nice clean break before it got to the stage of that embarrassing interview.


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All a bit embarrassing all round to be honest

Wonder which club will pick him up
		
Click to expand...


Feels like him and Aubam up front together at Chelsea favourite


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has certainly made an idiot of himself and he was the poster boy of the poor recruitment policy at the time

Was bought to stop another club getting him , given huge wages - *club should have to got it sorted in the summer* , nice clean break before it got to the stage of that embarrassing interview.
		
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There were no offers of any interest to Ronaldo, maybe he should have got it sorted in the summer.
EtH still had a place in his plans for Ronaldo, it was Ronaldo who rocked the boat.
The manager, in my opinion, has nowt to be embarrassed about, just a lot to be angry about.


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			There were no offers of any interest to Ronaldo, maybe he should have got it sorted in the summer.
EtH still had a place in his plans for Ronaldo, it was Ronaldo who rocked the boat.
The manager, in my opinion, has nowt to be embarrassed about, just a lot to be angry about.
		
Click to expand...

I agree no blame on the manager, slightly more murky as to whether some of those upstairs are part to blame but Ronaldo clearly shoulders the vast majority of it. 

would like to have been a fly on the wall when Bruno found out


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			There were no offers of any interest to Ronaldo, maybe he should have got it sorted in the summer.
EtH still had a place in his plans for Ronaldo, it was Ronaldo who rocked the boat.
The manager, in my opinion, has nowt to be embarrassed about, just a lot to be angry about.
		
Click to expand...

The manager made his call - it’s up to him what players he wants to pick etc 

But I suspect that he wasn’t in his plans beyond someone there just in case but would have preferred to move him on to release that vast wage from the bill but imo above the manager prob looked at the shirts sales money etc


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			I agree no blame on the manager, slightly more murky as to *whether some of those upstairs are part to blame* but Ronaldo clearly shoulders the vast majority of it.

would like to have been a fly on the wall when Bruno found out
		
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They are to blame for an awful lot, the sooner they follow Ronaldo, the better.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The manager made his call - it’s up to him what players he wants to pick etc

But I suspect that he wasn’t in his plans beyond someone there just in case but would have preferred to move him on to release that vast wage from the bill but imo above the manager prob looked at the shirts sales money etc
		
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Of course they bean counters all sit there and look at shirt sales. That revenue goes straight into the club as you well know and it may or may not influence how much a board releases to spend on players. but it has nothing to do with the manager. Didn't Ronaldo come under OGS and I am not sure he knew or wanted the deal and it was influenced from above. Ten Hag has merely been left with the player on the books and made it clear what his plans were. Ronaldo didn't like it and engineered his exit


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## Tashyboy (Nov 22, 2022)

So Liverpool are for sale and now Utd. Have the American owners had there fun and decided to leave town. 😳👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

Shirt sales - most deals now are a flat fee. Whether 1 shirt or 100k shirts are sold won't change the amount the club get. It will change the fee for the next deal but not the current one. The mfr, Nike, Adidas etc gets the money from sales, not the clubs.

Ronaldo's shirt sales therefore make next to no difference to utd, who already have a stonking deal. Thought it worth debunking this line of argument.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 22, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			So Liverpool are for sale and now Utd. Have the American owners had there fun and decided to leave town. 😳👍
		
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Going by Twitter the Liverpool fans definitely don’t want anymore American owners 😂
Could be bought with oil money?
Imagine it 😂😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Shirt sales - most deals now are a flat fee. Whether 1 shirt or 100k shirts are sold won't change the amount the club get. It will change the fee for the next deal but not the current one. The mfr, Nike, Adidas etc gets the money from sales, not the clubs.

Ronaldo's shirt sales therefore make next to no difference to utd, who already have a stonking deal. Thought it worth debunking this line of argument.
		
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https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/...se-in-revenue-as-value-of-nike-deal-outlined/

Plenty clubs are going for a lower flat base line in exchange for a bigger percentage of shirts sales 

Utd I believe is around 10% of each shirt but with clauses depending on competitions they are in hence why the fee they get fluctuates each season 

They got or reported to have got around £5 per shirt sold


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Going by Twitter the Liverpool fans definitely don’t want anymore American owners 😂
Could be bought with oil money?
Imagine it 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

That would be very funny, but then do I want them having even more to spend 🤔. I'm conflicted 😆


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## Tashyboy (Nov 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Going by Twitter the Liverpool fans definitely don’t want anymore American owners 😂
Could be bought with oil money?
Imagine it 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Now surely they would be up in arms, however that is on my Xmas wish list. God forbid they have Qatari owners,  either of them. 😳


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That would be very funny, but then do I want them having even more to spend 🤔. I'm conflicted 😆
		
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It wouldn’t matter what they won tho.
We could just whinge about oil money 🤷‍♂️😂


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 22, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Now surely they would be up in arms, however that is on my Xmas wish list. God forbid they have Qatari owners,  either of them. 😳
		
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I’m sure someone would put a good spin on it even if Putin bought them 😂


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## Tashyboy (Nov 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I’m sure someone would put a good spin on it even if Putin bought them 😂
		
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That someone may have a Tash 😉


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			So Liverpool are for sale *and now Utd*. Have the American owners had there fun and decided to leave town. 😳👍
		
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United for sale? You sure, Tash?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/...se-in-revenue-as-value-of-nike-deal-outlined/

Plenty clubs are going for a lower flat base line in exchange for a bigger percentage of shirts sales

Utd I believe is around 10% of each shirt but with clauses depending on competitions they are in hence why the fee they get fluctuates each season

They got or reported to have got around £5 per shirt sold
		
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£5 on a shirt that costs £50 is nothing really to a club like utd. 100k Ronaldo shirts sold is £0.5m, pocket change. I don't know how many were sold this time but I doubt it covers 2 weeks wages. Not enough to keep a bad apple


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			United for sale? You sure, Tash?
		
Click to expand...

Sky are reporting it


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2022)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...o-explore-sale-as-glazers-seek-new-investment


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			£5 on a shirt that costs £50 is nothing really to a club like utd. 100k Ronaldo shirts sold is £0.5m, pocket change. I don't know how many were sold this time but I doubt it covers 2 weeks wages. Not enough to keep a bad apple
		
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They sold £190mil worth of shirts in his first two weeks back at the club  - made the club around £20mil and was the fastest selling shirt ever 

https://www.sportbible.com/football...es-have-reached-187-million-20210910.amp.html


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2022)

When Ronaldo signed for Utd, the value of the club rose by £271M, shirt sales were largely irrelevant.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I’m sure someone would put a good spin on it even if Putin bought them 😂
		
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Even Putin might pass the owners test!


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## Slime (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sky are reporting it
		
Click to expand...

Today is the day that just keeps on giving.
Does Jim Ratcliffe frequent these boards, perchance?


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## Tashyboy (Nov 22, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...o-explore-sale-as-glazers-seek-new-investment

Click to expand...

In that link it says the value has gone up 17% on the news of the possible sale 😳


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## Tashyboy (Nov 22, 2022)

An enjoyable read

https://news.sky.com/story/manchest...t-old-trafford-rusting-and-in-a-mess-12752952


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## DaveR (Nov 23, 2022)

Not sure whether to post this here or the laughter thread 😂



https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/cristiano-ronaldo-next-club-offer-28561243


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## Tashyboy (Nov 23, 2022)

Discussing the Ronaldo situation, host Gary Lineker asked the Burnley boss if he would “take Ronaldo at Burnley?” to which he replied: “We need players that can run.” 🤔😳😂😂😂

Joking aside Pep signs a new deal 😁😁😁😁


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## Bdill93 (Nov 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Discussing the Ronaldo situation, host Gary Lineker asked the Burnley boss if he would “take Ronaldo at Burnley?” to which he replied: “We need players that can run.” 🤔😳😂😂😂

Joking aside* Pep signs a new dea*l 😁😁😁😁
		
Click to expand...

City fans must be made up, there's a certain European Cup that eludes him since leaving Barca and I think he's giving himself the best opportunity to win it by staying put. 

Also whoever follows pep is going to have to be one hell of a manager.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 23, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			City fans must be made up, there's a certain European Cup that eludes him since leaving Barca and I think he's giving himself the best opportunity to win it by staying put.

Also whoever follows pep is going to have to be one hell of a manager. 

Click to expand...

To be honest I am just chuffed there is a few more years of stability at the club having had decades of purgatory. Looking at what’s going off at Utd and Liverpool, well let’s just say the fans deserve better. Maybe Newcastle fans know what I am on about.
Hopefully Pep staying means we may be able to make a few Marquee signings 😉😁


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## Bdill93 (Nov 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			To be honest I am just chuffed there is a few more years of stability at the club having had decades of purgatory. Looking at what’s going off at Utd and Liverpool, well let’s just say the fans deserve better. Maybe Newcastle fans know what I am on about.
Hopefully Pep staying means we may be able to make a few Marquee signings 😉😁
		
Click to expand...

That's the big thing about City, the infrastructure and the leadership model is class. The owners appointed guys who knew how to run a club properly and they are reaping the rewards.

I don't see you falling out of the top 2 for quite some time!


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## AmandaJR (Nov 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			To be honest I am just chuffed there is a few more years of stability at the club having had decades of purgatory. Looking at what’s going off at Utd and Liverpool, well let’s just say the fans deserve better. Maybe Newcastle fans know what I am on about.
Hopefully Pep staying means we may be able to make a few Marquee signings 😉😁
		
Click to expand...

I love Pep. I like his personality, his demeanour and of course he's a brilliant manager. Strikes me he's genuine and what you see is what you get - no fabricated antics and gurning and fake fist pumps and celebrations etc. Long may he stay.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			That's the big thing about City, the infrastructure and the leadership model is class. The owners appointed guys who knew how to run a club properly and they are reaping the rewards.

I don't see you falling out of the top 2 for quite some time!
		
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Yes, but it must be remembered that there are other clubs who are more squeaky clean in how they spend their money, and therefore should be considered better and bigger clubs than City. And, Pep's achievements should be tarnished at City because of the money he has available to him, and therefore certain other managers should be considered superior to him as they have to do things the "right way" 

On a serious note, very good news for City fans (sadly). He must be considered the best manager around at the moment, by quite some margin.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 23, 2022)

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...2231154.html&usg=AOvVaw3zSg6VjkKv5o_8V9aRQ6tz

I don’t need an excuse to dislike Ronaldo, there are others that think he was right to do his interview. The fact he was thinking about having this watch done whilst he was at Utd, released when he was still at Utd. Well it speaks volumes for me. 
Thoughts on his departure from Utd fans appreciate.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjKlNKTmMT7AhUGXMAKHUnoC0MQvOMEKAB6BAgQEAE&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/cristiano-ronaldo-watch-instagram-manchester-united-b2231154.html&usg=AOvVaw3zSg6VjkKv5o_8V9aRQ6tz

I don’t need an excuse to dislike Ronaldo, there are others that think he was right to do his interview. The fact he was thinking about having this watch done whilst he was at Utd, released when he was still at Utd. Well it speaks volumes for me.
Thoughts on his departure from Utd fans appreciate.
		
Click to expand...

Not seen the watch, but I take anything like that with a pinch of salt. Like a typical "news" story, it simply seems to be sensationalising a certain point of view to bring in readers, and so any angle that can be used to throw mud at Ronaldo, journalists take it.

He has scored hundreds of headers, many of which were scored in a very similar manner to the one he scored against United. So, I'll treat the story as the typical witch hunt against Ronaldo, rather than anything to be taken too seriously. Ronaldo hanging high in the air to score a header is a pretty iconic image for him and his style of play.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 23, 2022)

Anyone know why theres no prem fixtures on the weekend of 28th January?

All other leagues have games?


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## Bdill93 (Nov 23, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Anyone know why theres no prem fixtures on the weekend of 28th January?

All other leagues have games?
		
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Ignore me - its the 4th round of FA cup weekend!


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## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Anyone know why theres no prem fixtures on the weekend of 28th January?

All other leagues have games?
		
Click to expand...

Winter Break?

Edit: I replied before you asked me to ignore you


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## Bdill93 (Nov 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Winter Break?

Edit: I replied before you asked me to ignore you 

Click to expand...

Hahaha sorry, I was trying to find the answer still after asking!


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## srixon 1 (Nov 23, 2022)

I wish Man U would have written off Ronaldo’s wages and just made him sit on the bench for the rest of his contract.


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## Slime (Nov 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjKlNKTmMT7AhUGXMAKHUnoC0MQvOMEKAB6BAgQEAE&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/cristiano-ronaldo-watch-instagram-manchester-united-b2231154.html&usg=AOvVaw3zSg6VjkKv5o_8V9aRQ6tz

I don’t need an excuse to dislike Ronaldo, there are others that think he was right to do his interview. The fact he was thinking about having this watch done whilst he was at Utd, released when he was still at Utd. Well it speaks volumes for me.
*Thoughts on his departure from Utd fans appreciate.*

Click to expand...

Absolutely fantastic news ................................ and I am one of his biggest fans.


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## 4LEX (Nov 23, 2022)

Ronaldo got what he wanted from the interview - his contract ripped up. You've got to admire his ruthlessness.

As he's not cup tied for the CL, I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up at a club still involved. No one will pay him the 500k a week that he was on, so he's done this purely for football reasons and wanting to compete at the highest level. He's not a Top 6 or Europa League player.

Man Utd are left with nothing upfront bar an injury prone waster in Martial. January is a bad month to sign top players without overpaying massively, throw in the sale of the club that'll take months and months. I can't see the Glazers shelling out £100m plus in January with the club up for sale, it'll likely be another has been on loan. I said it months back but this Ronaldo situation will likely be the difference between getting a CL place and missing out.


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## theoneandonly (Nov 24, 2022)

I see the Saudis are interested in funding the purchase of Liverpool and Manu


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## Tashyboy (Nov 24, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			I see the Saudis are interested in funding the purchase of Liverpool and Manu
		
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Dear Santa, for Christmas I would really really like this to happen. I have so much to say 😉


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## theoneandonly (Nov 24, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Dear Santa, for Christmas I would really really like this to happen. I have so much to say 😉
		
Click to expand...

I think you'll have to join the queue 😂


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## Beezerk (Nov 24, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			I see the Saudis are interested in funding the purchase of Liverpool and Manu
		
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Christ imagine, it would be glorious. Wonder if some would stop supporting them


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 24, 2022)




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## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Christ imagine, it would be glorious. Wonder if some would stop supporting them 

Click to expand...

Funny how social media fans think they speak on behalf of the clubs 😂😂


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## Beezerk (Nov 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Funny how social media fans think they speak on behalf of the clubs 😂😂
		
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All those telly clappers squirming in their Shackleton high back chairs 🤣


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## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			I see the Saudis are interested in funding the purchase of Liverpool and Manu
		
Click to expand...

Yernited will end up with the richest Saudi Sheikh and we'll end up with their pauper cousins Sheikh Han Vac.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Dear Santa, for Christmas I would really really like this to happen. I have so much to say 😉
		
Click to expand...

Do us a favour, seperate your paragraphs so its easier to read🤣


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## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Do us a favour, seperate your paragraphs so its easier to read🤣
		
Click to expand...

Do us a favour. 

 Separate your paragraphs so it’s easier to read. 

Sorted Stu 😁😉👍


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## nickjdavis (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Yernited will end up with the richest Saudi Sheikh and we'll end up with their pauper cousins Sheikh Han Vac.
		
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Pity the News of the World still isn't around to provide a couple of "fake sheiks".


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## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Pity the News of the World still isn't around to provide a couple of "fake sheiks".
		
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there’s Sheik yer Booty for one. 😉


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## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Pity the News of the World still isn't around to provide a couple of "fake sheiks".
		
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No pity for that establishment but i get your point.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 27, 2022)

28,565 attendance today for Newcastle Ladies.

A record attendance for a Womens FA Cup match outside of a final.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 27, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			28,565 attendance today for Newcastle Ladies.

A record attendance for a Womens FA Cup match outside of a final.
		
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Did you go? Not the greatest spectacle but loads of young girls there who hopefully enjoyed it. The club did a good job, all the flags were out for fans, they got the same music pre match, half time guy etc.

The Toon had a cracking centre half who swept up everything, had all the time in the world. Not the greatest passer, she needed a midfielder to show and take it, but otherwise she could certainly step up a level.

The goals were typical of women's football, long shots going over the head of the keepers. Neither keeper was particularly tall.

Anyway, a success for the women's game I'd say.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 27, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did you go? Not the greatest spectacle but loads of young girls there who hopefully enjoyed it. The club did a good job, all the flags were out for fans, they got the same music pre match, half time guy etc.

.
		
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I wasn't there (I live in Ipswich) but, as a Toon fan and ex season ticket holder I still like to take an interest across the clubs activities. Even if the tickets were dirt cheap it still shows a huge appetite for the ladies game that the club can tap into....and that's for a team that is in the 4th tier of the womens game. Bringing the games to St. James' is obviously a hugely popular move.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			I wasn't there (I live in Ipswich) but, as a Toon fan and ex season ticket holder I still like to take an interest across the clubs activities. Even if the tickets were dirt cheap it still shows a huge appetite for the ladies game that the club can tap into....and that's for a team that is in the 4th tier of the womens game. Bringing the games to St. James' is obviously a hugely popular move.
		
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Could you of imagined womens football at St James park under Ashley.🤔


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## nickjdavis (Nov 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Could you of imagined football at St James park under Ashley.🤔
		
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Fixed that for you.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596890233202614272


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 27, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			I wasn't there (I live in Ipswich) but, as a Toon fan and ex season ticket holder I still like to take an interest across the clubs activities. Even if the tickets were dirt cheap it still shows a huge appetite for the ladies game that the club can tap into....and that's for a team that is in the 4th tier of the womens game. Bringing the games to St. James' is obviously a hugely popular move.
		
Click to expand...

It was £3 for adults, free for kids. 2pm on a Sunday, perfect. Get into Newcastle early have a wander, bite to eat, watch the game. They seem to be doing this every couple of months and that is about right. Every home game at SJP and the numbers wouldn't be there but make it an event and people will come. 

I think it helps that there is positivity about the whole club right now, people want to be involved whether it is a PL match, cup game or women's side.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 27, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			28,565 attendance today for Newcastle Ladies.

A record attendance for a Womens FA Cup match outside of a final.
		
Click to expand...

Probably wanted to see some decent footy after  that dross Friday night.


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## sunshine (Nov 28, 2022)

Unbelievable that Mick Beale has left Rangers to join some other team called Rangers who play in a minor league. 

After everything he said about loyalty and integrity when he turned down wolves only 4 weeks ago. 

I don’t see how he can build team spirit or attract good players after that.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2022)

Sounds like Juventus entire board has resigned. Losses of 1/4 a billion Euros last financial year


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Juventus entire board has resigned. Losses of 1/4 a billion Euros last financial year 

Click to expand...

Bargains in the January window potentially then. Every cloud............😆

I'm guessing they and Barcelona will still be pushing for the super league concept then.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Unbelievable that Mick Beale has left Rangers to join some other team called Rangers who play in a minor league.

After everything he said about loyalty and integrity when he turned down wolves only 4 weeks ago.

I don’t see how he can build team spirit or attract good players after that.
		
Click to expand...

No loyalty in football!


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			No loyalty in football!
		
Click to expand...

If he had lost his next 4 games then the club might have sacked him. You are bang on, there is no loyalty in football, in any direction. Each party has to look after their own interests first of all, ideally they are all aligned together.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If he had lost his next 4 games then the club might have sacked him. You are bang on, there is no loyalty in football, in any direction. Each party has to look after their own interests first of all, ideally they are all aligned together.
		
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Oh for sure - and lets be honest, Rangers are a bigger club than QPR overall.

If Beale does well at Rangers he will get a prem job to have a go at one day.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Oh for sure - and lets be honest, Rangers are a bigger club than QPR overall.

If Beale does well at Rangers he will get a prem job to have a go at one day.
		
Click to expand...


Hes just turned down a prem job last month hasnt he?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Oh for sure - and lets be honest, Rangers are a bigger club than QPR overall.

If Beale does well at Rangers he will get a prem job to have a go at one day.
		
Click to expand...

It's a sensible move up for him, he knows rangers as well due to his time as assistant to Gerrard. 

The odd thing, as pointed out by @fundy is him turning down the wolves job. He could have missed rangers out and gone straight to wolves. Is there something odd happening at wolves? Do the owners interfere?


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## GB72 (Nov 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a sensible move up for him, he knows rangers as well due to his time as assistant to Gerrard.

The odd thing, as pointed out by @fundy is him turning down the wolves job. He could have missed rangers out and gone straight to wolves. Is there something odd happening at wolves? Do the owners interfere?
		
Click to expand...

Could be that he never wanted to leave Rangers but was ousted so as the new manager could bring in his own backroom staff.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Hes just turned down a prem job last month hasnt he?
		
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Yeah but Wolves is a funny job, you don't get any say on transfers from what I hear, not quite full autonomy.


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## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Yeah but Wolves is a funny job, you don't get any say on transfers from what I hear, not quite full autonomy.
		
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Not sure too prem managers get full autonomy these days, an input into the process maybe but not the control the likes of Ferguson/Wenger had in previous times thats for sure. Sensible way to run a club as long as there is a coherent long term plan and strategy and you then recruit managers in line with that


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## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Oh for sure - and lets be honest, Rangers are a bigger club than QPR overall.

If Beale does well at Rangers he will get a prem job to have a go at one day.
		
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Yeah, he could go to Villa and leave them on the brink of relegation for example.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, he could go to Villa and leave them on the brink of relegation for example.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly! And get a nice 3 year pay out for the job well done.


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## Bdill93 (Nov 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Not sure too prem managers get full autonomy these days, an input into the process maybe but not the control the likes of Ferguson/Wenger had in previous times thats for sure. Sensible way to run a club as long as there is a coherent long term plan and strategy and you then recruit managers in line with that
		
Click to expand...

Some do, some don't! All is not right at Wolves though, they were flying a few years back but have stagnated and not seen as much investment as before. I think its a wise move to avoid it while things are uncertain.


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## Neilds (Nov 30, 2022)

Wonder how much Champions League football Ronaldo is going to get playing in the Saudi league?  At least he can console himself with his £173 million a year pay


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## HeftyHacker (Nov 30, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Wonder how much Champions League football Ronaldo is going to get playing in the Saudi league?  At least he can console himself with his £173 million a year pay 

Click to expand...

Pffft. I wouldn't get out of bed for £173m a year 😂


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## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			Pffft. I wouldn't get out of bed for £173m a year 😂
		
Click to expand...

Me either - I'd pay someone to move me out of it


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## sunshine (Nov 30, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Could be that he never wanted to leave Rangers but was ousted so as the new manager could bring in his own backroom staff.
		
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No, Gerrard took him to villa


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## sunshine (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, he could go to Villa and leave them on the brink of relegation for example.
		
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It’s funny, I was talking to a villa fan who reckoned that Beale was the brains behind Gerrard. Would explain why Gerrard had a good start at villa but then went downhill this season when Beale left for QPR.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2022)

sunshine said:



			It’s funny, I was talking to a villa fan who reckoned that Beale was the brains behind Gerrard. Would explain why Gerrard had a good start at villa but then went downhill this season when Beale left for QPR.
		
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He absolutely was the brains behing Gerrard. Its all I read from Rangers fans when he came down to us. He lost Beale in the summer and lost his job within 3 months - got to be something in that!


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## sunshine (Dec 1, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Wonder how much Champions League football Ronaldo is going to get playing in the Saudi league?  At least he can console himself with his £173 million a year pay 

Click to expand...

Maybe he can take up golf...


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Maybe he can take up golf...
		
Click to expand...

He might not be the best golfer in the world, but I guess that wouldn't stop LIV trying the sign him up. Just imagine all those extra instagram followers they'd get in their bid to grow the game


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Maybe he can take up golf...
		
Click to expand...

Even on that money he won’t be able to afford to play golf in Saudi.


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## HeftyHacker (Dec 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Even on that money he won’t be able to afford to play golf in Saudi.
		
Click to expand...

I didnt think it was that expensive? Loads of the guys from work play every week over there and they aren't on £173m a week 🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			I didnt think it was that expensive? Loads of the guys from work play every week over there and they aren't on £173m a week 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Must be a muni then


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He might not be the best golfer in the world, but I guess that wouldn't stop LIV trying the sign him up. Just imagine all those extra instagram followers they'd get in their bid to grow the game 

Click to expand...

Hope you do not send the above to Smooth Mel. He may take offence


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## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Hope you do not send the above to Smooth Mel. He may take offence

Click to expand...

Hope he stays off this thread. I think someone started a new one about World Ranking Points, so that will keep him busy when he isn't on the LIV one.


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## Beezerk (Dec 1, 2022)

Wow  anti LIV winkers spamming.the football thread, a new low 🤣


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## Imurg (Dec 3, 2022)

Pele moved to End of Life care after failing to respond to chemotherapy. 😔


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## AmandaJR (Dec 4, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Pele moved to End of Life care after failing to respond to chemotherapy. 😔
		
Click to expand...

Thankfully it seems the reports may be exaggerated and he's stable...hope so.


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## DaveR (Dec 4, 2022)

What's this thing with everyone that scores a goal pointing both fingers in the air and looking upwards then blessing themselves? I bet 90% of them have never been near a church in their lives.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

DaveR said:



			What's this thing with everyone that scores a goal pointing both fingers in the air and looking upwards then blessing themselves? I bet 90% of them have never been near a church in their lives.
		
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Is it not a spiritual signal to a lost loved one, rather than anything religious (albeit some may believe in God)


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## DaveR (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Is it not a spiritual signal to a lost loved one, rather than anything religious (albeit some may believe in God)
		
Click to expand...

Don't know, could be but it just seems like a load sheep followers to me. He did it so I'll do it too.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 4, 2022)

DaveR said:



			Don't know, could be but it just seems like a load sheep followers to me. He did it so I'll do it too.
		
Click to expand...

When I see it to my mind there's a kind of arrogance to it - run on the pitch with both hands pointing skywards because I'm so important that whatever deity there is up there is surely focussing on me right now as I prepare to kick a football around a pitch!!!


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## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			When I see it to my mind there's a kind of arrogance to it - run on the pitch with both hands pointing skywards because I'm so important that whatever deity there is up there is surely focussing on me right now as I prepare to kick a football around a pitch!!!
		
Click to expand...

A look of religious footballers apparently do it to thank god for each goal as he/ she / they gifted them with their talents


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## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

DaveR said:



			Don't know, could be but it just seems like a load sheep followers to me. He did it so I'll do it too.
		
Click to expand...

Well, I know Rashford did it as his pal recently died. Many footballers will have loved ones that will have died, maybe even a parent who helped them get to where they are today. They are now representing their country at the biggest stage. So, perhaps there are emotions we can't even comprehend, where scoring at  World Cup is the ultimate dream, and they are simply dedicating it to the ones they have lost, who were there before they ever "made it".

I know we live in a cynical world, where we like to find a reason to be critical of people. But, I doubt very few footballers are doing it just to look cool?


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 5, 2022)

https://www.sportingnews.com/uk/soc...illion-liverpool-bid/utofytyfunz3yo2x95qpzzvg

Will Liverpool be the next UAE/ Qatari owned team? Looking likely apparently! 

Its going to get harder and harder to compete with the teams with that level of backing!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



https://www.sportingnews.com/uk/soc...illion-liverpool-bid/utofytyfunz3yo2x95qpzzvg

Will Liverpool be the next UAE/ Qatari owned team? Looking likely apparently!

*Its going to get harder and harder to compete with the teams with that level of backing*!
		
Click to expand...

The reality is, that has been the case for years. The league within a league has been happening for some time. I've given up expecting my team to win the league again, a long way away anyway sadly, I just want them to play good football and entertain me, obviously winning games helps that.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The reality is, that has been the case for years. The league within a league has been happening for some time. I've given up expecting my team to win the league again, a long way away anyway sadly, I just want them to play good football and entertain me, obviously winning games helps that.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool did well for 3/4 years without this level of backing - it is possible - but they also have one of the top 3 managers in the world so that helps


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 5, 2022)

Concerned they didn't sign enough players in the Summer, we've just signed Gustavo Scarpa on a free for 3-and-a-half years. Brazilian player of the year last season, and seems a likeable bloke. Arrived in Nottingham over the weekend and was just skateboarding round the city - and hung out with the fans at our friendly with Stoke on Friday night. 

I assume he's the long term replacement for Lingard. Hopefully he fairs as well as some of our other free transfers have this season (Aurier in particular has been a pleasant surprise)


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Liverpool did well for 3/4 years without this level of backing - it is possible - but they also have one of the top 3 managers in the world so that helps 

Click to expand...

Their backing was still pretty helpful though. If you look at the top transfers in English football they are heavily involved. Obviously, it's pure money so it must go further


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Their backing was still pretty helpful though. If you look at the top transfers in English football they are heavily involved. Obviously, it's pure money so it must go further 

Click to expand...

Backing ? Do you mean just spending the money the club makes through income ?

Owners haven’t spent a penny of their own money on signings , it’s all through money brought into the club.

There is also devil in the detail and some context behind the level of spending


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## Bdill93 (Dec 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Their backing was still pretty helpful though. If you look at the top transfers in English football they are heavily involved. Obviously, it's pure money so it must go further 

Click to expand...

Oh I know they've spent well, but they still don't spend like PSG and at least Liverpool have some sort of a wage structure (although I think Salah tore that apart a bit) 

They didn't make any "big money" (lets call that 50m+) signings for 3/4/5 years until Nunez came this summer - might be why they're showing cracks this season a bit


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 5, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Oh I know they've spent well, but they still don't spend like PSG and at least Liverpool have some sort of a wage structure (although I think Salah tore that apart a bit)

*They didn't make any "big money" (lets call that 50m+) signings for 3/4/5 years until Nunez came this summer* - might be why they're showing cracks this season a bit
		
Click to expand...

That's not quite true. VVD for £85 million in 17/18, Allison for £62.5 million and Keita for £60 million in 18/19. 

They've also had several over £40 million in that time that I would class as big money signings, Mane £41m, Salah £42m, Fabinho £45m, Jot £45m, Diaz £47m, Konate £40m all since the 16/17 season so they haven't exactly been frugal with their transfer spending. 

Yes, it's all money generated by the club through selling players or TV money but they've still been spending big money in the last few years.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Oh I know they've spent well, but they still don't spend like PSG and at least Liverpool have some sort of a wage structure (although I think Salah tore that apart a bit) 

They didn't make any "big money" (lets call that 50m+) signings for 3/4/5 years until Nunez came this summer - might be why they're showing cracks this season a bit
		
Click to expand...

What @ColchesterFC said above. That is some pretty major spending.


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## Rlburnside (Dec 5, 2022)

DaveR said:



			What's this thing with everyone that scores a goal pointing both fingers in the air and looking upwards then blessing themselves? I bet 90% of them have never been near a church in their lives.
		
Click to expand...

I think it’s to do with players wanting to be seen doing it on camera, if they have to do anything do it in private before coming onto the pitch.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 5, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's not quite true. VVD for £85 million in 17/18, Allison for £62.5 million and Keita for £60 million in 18/19.

They've also had several over £40 million in that time that I would class as big money signings, Mane £41m, Salah £42m, Fabinho £45m, Jot £45m, Diaz £47m, Konate £40m all since the 16/17 season so they haven't exactly been frugal with their transfer spending.

Yes, it's all money generated by the club through selling players or TV money but they've still been spending big money in the last few years.
		
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I never said they don’t spend big, I said they don’t do it often and not for a number of years - specifically 3/4/5. VVD is currently in his 6th season, the other two their 5th so I’m pretty bang on 😂

40m is the going rate for a quality player these days, I just accept that personally, you may not but that’s opinion, other clubs have spent far more on individual pieces than Liverpool have. Chelsea, United, City being the biggest 3. I mean just look at Chelsea over the last 2 seasons….

And that was the original point, with new money they can do more of the big money moves and be less self sustainable than they currently are as the owners will pump in the money year after year.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 5, 2022)

I can’t see


Bdill93 said:



			I never said they don’t spend big, I said they don’t do it often and *not for a number of years *- specifically 3/4/5. VVD is currently in his 6th season, the other two their 5th so I’m pretty bang on 😂

40m is the going rate for a quality player these days, I just accept that personally, you may not but that’s opinion, other clubs have spent far more on individual pieces than Liverpool have. Chelsea, United, City being the biggest 3. I mean just look at Chelsea over the last 2 seasons….

And that was the original point, with new money they can do more of the big money moves and be less self sustainable than they currently are as the owners will pump in the money year after year.
		
Click to expand...

Darwin Nunez 🤷‍♂️😂


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## Bdill93 (Dec 5, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I can’t see

Darwin Nunez 🤷‍♂️😂
		
Click to expand...

Read my first post. I’ve obviously not forgotten Nunez 😂


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2022)

Jesus has had knee surgery and gonna be out for a decent chunk of time  not the best of news

Be interesting to see if they try and buy, recall Balogun (unlikely) or rely on Nketiah and Martinelli if needed


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			Jesus has had knee surgery and gonna be out for a decent chunk of time  not the best of news

Be interesting to see if they try and buy, recall Balogun (unlikely) or rely on Nketiah and Martinelli if needed
		
Click to expand...

I believe that Mr C Ronaldo is available. Get him in on a six month contract.


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I believe that Mr C Ronaldo is available. Get him in on a six month contract. 

Click to expand...


Im pretty confident that wont be happening


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600930711879487500


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## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600930711879487500

Click to expand...

We had such a good team then we probably should have won it. Bench was pretty poor though - I had to check back and saw that when we lost the Portugal game when Rooney had to go off he was replaced by Darius Vassell. 😂


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## 4LEX (Dec 10, 2022)

Sven was the weak link, terrible manager.

The defence was the best by far, all he had to do was get the midfield balance right and we win it. Trying to cram Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes into a 4 was ridiculous. He didn't have the minerals to leave anyone out and hoped for individual quality. Ditto 2006. Total waste of talent.


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## sunshine (Dec 12, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Sven was the weak link, terrible manager.

The defence was the best by far, all he had to do was get the midfield balance right and we win it. Trying to cram Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes into a 4 was ridiculous. He didn't have the minerals to leave anyone out and hoped for individual quality. Ditto 2006. Total waste of talent.
		
Click to expand...

Defense was so solid back then, should have had a defensive midfielder like Hargreaves in there to allow Scholes and Lampard to do their thing. 

Gerrard was the weak link in that midfield. Running around like a headless chicken, trying to play Hollywood crossfield balls. His highlights looked amazing but most of the time he was just giving the ball away constantly. He improved when Benitez started coaching him and he could learn how to keep possession from watching Xabi Alonso on the pitch.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604044843080097792
😲


----------



## Fromtherough (Dec 17, 2022)

Enjoying getting the opportunity to watch a Saturday 3pm kick off Boro away game live in the Red button (via legitimate means). Should be the norm now.


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## Fromtherough (Dec 17, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604044843080097792
😲
		
Click to expand...

Crowd fire flare on pitch. Goalie throws it into crowd. Crowd react. Probably large bans for the idiot fans and idiot goalkeeper.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 17, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604144328997490691


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Dec 18, 2022)

I understand that there's some big game coming up between the French and Argentine national teams.
I don't know much about that version of the game.

Our football here in Boston is a mess.  The Patriots current record is a mediocre 7-6 with four games to go.
The games have been putting me to sleep--just like the games with the round ball.


----------



## venger (Dec 18, 2022)

Southgate staying as England manager

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63943512


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## Beezerk (Dec 18, 2022)

venger said:



			Southgate staying as England manager

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63943512

Click to expand...

Boo.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

venger said:



			Southgate staying as England manager

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63943512

Click to expand...

It’s not coming home then !


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## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

venger said:



			Southgate staying as England manager

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63943512

Click to expand...

Good job @4LEX has been blackballed, otherwise his response to this news might just see him being blackballed 😉


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 20, 2022)

Not looking good for Ivan Toney 😬😂
Silly boy.


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## Billysboots (Dec 21, 2022)

The second United goal was Rashford back to his confident best. Quality.


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## backwoodsman (Dec 22, 2022)

I know it was 'only' Blackburn last night but they are only 5 'places' behind us at the mo' -  Forest did well.(Lingard's goal was a bit bizarre, but hey, ho.) It was only the highlights I saw but they seemed to play a lot more cohesively than they were doing in the league  a few weeks ago.  OK, there's a tough re-introduction to the league with Man U & Chelsea as our first games back. But there's enough to give us hope. (Please, please don't let that be famous last words ...)


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2022)

Seems like Dele Alli’s fall continues.
Booed by Besiktas fans when substituted yesterday.
As a player ever had such a decline?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So which is the best dive

New entry


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606003039546052618
or this Charlie Adam classic


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517884458107654147
😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

50/50 for me they should share the trophy


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So which is the best dive

New entry


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606003039546052618
or this Charlie Adam classic


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517884458107654147
😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

How can they not get a ban for this?
Rules need to change.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2022)

What the heck are they doing at The Etihad - it’s like a NBA light show entrance and seems some people have paid £300 to stand by the side of the pitch as the teams warm up 😲


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2022)

Decent start to the match. Could, and possibly should, be 2-1 to Man City already. If it continues like this it will be a great game for neutrals.


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## Slime (Dec 22, 2022)

Well, it didn't take him very long!
Is there a better player on the planet, I'm not so sure.


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## fundy (Dec 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			Well, it didn't take him very long!
Is there a better player on the planet, I'm not so sure.
		
Click to expand...


shouldve scored inside 30 seconds lol. KDB looks a lot happier back at City too


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2022)

Haaland is an absolute beast


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2022)

could be a lot of goals in this 😂

I see all the stuff from the managers about the disrespectful chants lasted long then 🙄


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			could be a lot of goals in this 😂

I see all the stuff from the managers about the disrespectful chants lasted long then 🙄
		
Click to expand...

How do you pick up on all these chants?
Genuine question.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2022)

Get in .
City good going forward but just as bad as us at the back.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			How do you pick up on all these chants?
Genuine question.
		
Click to expand...

Could hear them telling Milner where to go as he went off.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Could hear them telling Milner where to go as he went off.
		
Click to expand...

I’m sure he’ll get over it 😂


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## AmandaJR (Dec 22, 2022)

Crikey if he's offended by that it's a good job he's a telly clapper


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Crikey if he's offended by that it's a good job he's a telly clapper 

Click to expand...

Every major international tournament we get the same Liverpool fans on here posting anything anti England.
One match going scouser laughing & changing his avatar to a player that’s knocked England out the last 2 tournaments 
But as soon as anyone hurts their feelings 🎻 🎻.
Ashamed of nothing 🤷‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2022)

Shocking marking from reds .
Eight players in the box and Ake gets a free header.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Every major international tournament we get the same Liverpool fans on here posting anything anti England.
One match going scouser laughing & changing his avatar to a player that’s knocked England out the last 2 tournaments
But as soon as anyone hurts their feelings 🎻 🎻.
Ashamed of nothing 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Not me mate I just answered your question.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Could hear them telling Milner where to go as he went off.
		
Click to expand...




AmandaJR said:



			Crikey if he's offended by that it's a good job he's a telly clapper 

Click to expand...

No idea what was said about Milner or to Milner but there was another offensive chant being sung again - but it’s all good if poverty is ok to be used as a football chant

We are back into the tribalism of English club football and braindead morons

Shame as it’s a great game on the pitch


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606021217730711552


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2022)

That’s a penalty.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No idea what was said about Milner or to Milner but there was another offensive chant being sung again - but it’s all good if poverty is ok to be used as a football chant

We are back into the tribalism of English club football and braindead morons

Shame as it’s a great game on the pitch
		
Click to expand...

See my post above Phil.
No poverty chants aren’t good.
But Liverpool fans are only too happy to rub other fans up the wrong way & other fans react 🤷‍♂️


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2022)

Looks like Nunez hasn’t been practicing his finishing .


----------



## Slime (Dec 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			could be a lot of goals in this 😂
		
Click to expand...

Not if Darwin Nunez has anything to do with it.
He's missed a hatful this evening.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not if Darwin Nunez has anything to do with it.
He's missed a hatful this evening.
		
Click to expand...

Think he is actually getting further away - first chance smacked the post and then just got worse


----------



## fundy (Dec 22, 2022)

Fabinho esp and Rodri both lucky to stay on the park there


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2022)

Rodri should be off.
Got away with kicking out in the first half.


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## Slime (Dec 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Fabinho esp and Rodri both lucky to stay on the park there
		
Click to expand...

Nah, it was much a do about nothing.
I like a bit of passion.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not if Darwin Nunez has anything to do with it.
He's missed a hatful this evening.
		
Click to expand...

Can’t expect too much for £85m 🤷‍♂️😂


----------



## fundy (Dec 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			Nah, it was much a do about nothing.
I like a bit of passion.
		
Click to expand...

 i like passion but you cant just kick out at an oppo having just scissor tackled him lol


----------



## Slime (Dec 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			i like passion but you cant just kick out at an oppo having just scissor tackled him lol
		
Click to expand...

No lives were lost, no blood was spilled ............................. I say give them a warning and carry on.


----------



## fundy (Dec 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			No lives were lost, no blood was spilled ............................. I say give them a warning and carry on.
		
Click to expand...


well remember that for when youre moaning about a utd player being fouled


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2022)

I think the linesmen have forgotten that they have flags.
Nunez miles off and pressured the keeper who gave the ball away.
Joke.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No idea what was said about Milner or to Milner but there was another offensive chant being sung again - but it’s all good if poverty is ok to be used as a football chant

We are back into the tribalism of English club football and braindead morons

Shame as it’s a great game on the pitch


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606021217730711552

Click to expand...

As this definitely happened?
You know what social media’s like🤷‍♂️


----------



## Slime (Dec 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			well remember that for when youre moaning about a utd player being fouled 

Click to expand...

I never said anything about not giving a free kick, I'm just okay with them throwing their toys out of the pram every now and then.


----------



## fundy (Dec 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			I never said anything about not giving a free kick, I'm just okay with them throwing their toys out of the pram every now and then. 

Click to expand...

nah as a neutral I want multiple red cards for every fracas


----------



## Slime (Dec 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			nah as a neutral I want multiple red cards for every fracas 

Click to expand...

I've got an animal lined up for that very occasion!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2022)

Only 4 minutes of injury time? Booooooo!!!!! Let's get back to 8 or 9 minutes as per the World Cup.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Only 4 minutes of injury time? Booooooo!!!!! Let's get back to 8 or 9 minutes as per the World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

Why was that happening? 😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2022)

Only got ourselves to blame there.
Made enough chances.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2022)

Well a great game to get things going again after the World Cup - could have been 6 all in the end


----------



## fundy (Dec 22, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Only 4 minutes of injury time? Booooooo!!!!! Let's get back to 8 or 9 minutes as per the World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

Ball was in play pretty much constantly, added time seemed fine, the big numbers should be when sides are time wasting, theres lots of injuries/subs/goals etc


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2022)

Good game that. Needle, Quality and poor finishing.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well a great game to get things going again after the World Cup - could have been 6 all in the end
		
Click to expand...

Did you read that on twitter? There wasn't even a yellow card for 90 mins apart from KDB blatantly time wqsting by kicking the ball away.


----------



## Skytot (Dec 22, 2022)

Great game . 
A game of missed chances , mainly by Darwin


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ball was in play pretty much constantly, added time seemed fine, the big numbers should be when sides are time wasting, theres lots of injuries/subs/goals etc
		
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting that the 4 minutes was wrong, just that with such a good game another 5 or 6 minutes wouldn't have been disappointing.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Every major international tournament we get the same Liverpool fans on here posting anything anti England.
*One match going scouser laughing & changing his avatar to a player that’s knocked England out the last 2 tournaments*
But as soon as anyone hurts their feelings 🎻 🎻.
Ashamed of nothing 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

🤔🤔🤔

Still a snidey crying bawbag eh attention seeker, even though you're wrong. 

Merry xmas.


----------



## HomecountiesJohn (Dec 22, 2022)

I thoroughly enjoyed the game tonight. I watched it with my brother and nephew who i've not seen for 4 yrs.  It's great to see the two best teams going head to head.

Probably the correct result, Nunez was in 2 minds on at least 2 occasions though.


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 23, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			I know it was 'only' Blackburn last night but they are only 5 'places' behind us at the mo' -  Forest did well.(Lingard's goal was a bit bizarre, but hey, ho.) It was only the highlights I saw but they seemed to play a lot more cohesively than they were doing in the league  a few weeks ago.  OK, there's a tough re-introduction to the league with Man U & Chelsea as our first games back. But there's enough to give us hope. (Please, please don't let that be famous last words ...)
		
Click to expand...

We played really well. Link up play seems to be working, one touch passes advancing the ball and players are where they’re supposed to be. 
Lingard looking like the Lingard we expected, Johnson playing with more confidence and freedom and Taiwo actually getting service. 27 shots on goal (and 15 on target) is light years ahead of where we were 2 months ago, regardless of the opponent. 

Defensively we’re still a bit weak but hopefully Niakhaté will be back soon. I’m optimistic we can get something from the next two games. 

Currently only 3 wins away from European places 👀😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 23, 2022)




----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			We played really well. Link up play seems to be working, one touch passes advancing the ball and players are where they’re supposed to be. 
Lingard looking like the Lingard we expected, Johnson playing with more confidence and freedom and Taiwo actually getting service. 27 shots on goal (and 15 on target) is light years ahead of where we were 2 months ago, regardless of the opponent. 

Defensively we’re still a bit weak but hopefully Niakhaté will be back soon. I’m optimistic we can get something from the next two games. 

Currently only 3 wins away from European places 👀😂
		
Click to expand...

Forest may well be a team that has really benefited from the break. The World Cup gave coaches a chance to work with their players, drill them, over and over. I'm hoping that Everton get the same benefit. A bonus of not having many international players who qualified 😄


----------



## backwoodsman (Dec 23, 2022)

Quite possibly. Admittedly we didn't have as many players at the world cup as many other teams, but there were still quite a few there. (Have to say I breathed a sigh of relief when Wales came home early. I wanted then to do well but not at the expense of possibly 3 players getting injured. Unfortunately, Kouyaté got crocked in Senegals opening match right at the start of the tournament).


----------



## backwoodsman (Dec 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			We played really well .........

*Currently only 3 wins away from European places* 👀😂
		
Click to expand...

Looking good for my bet to pay off then ...


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Forest may well be a team that has really benefited from the break. The World Cup gave coaches a chance to work with their players, drill them, over and over. I'm hoping that Everton get the same benefit. A bonus of not having many international players who qualified 😄
		
Click to expand...

I always said, given the changes, the season will start for us after the World Cup break and it was survival before this. 

It looked like things started to click the last few games before the break so hopefully we can pick up where we left off.


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 23, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Looking good for my bet to pay off then ... 

Click to expand...

Same 😎


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Forest may well be a team that has really benefited from the break. The World Cup gave coaches a chance to work with their players, drill them, over and over. I'm hoping that Everton get the same benefit. A bonus of not having many international players who qualified 😄
		
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New Everton stadium looks like it is coming on well. 👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			New Everton stadium looks like it is coming on well. 👍
		
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It should be a cracker. They've done a lot of work, looking at other stadiums in order to get it right, keep atmosphere etc. Hopefully that will come through. 

Nightmare to get away from after a game but they just seem to be brushing that off 🤷‍♂️.

(How long until one of the liverpool lads post best ground in the championship?) 🤭


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## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			New Everton stadium looks like it is coming on well. 👍
		
Click to expand...

It certainly is, i'm often down there as i use the plumbers merchants just around the corner and its been good watching it rise from the dock. 

It'll be a massive improvement to the area, the North end regeneration/investment has been forgotten about for a long time.

Though where its based, there's a waste recycling plant just next door to it and it bloody stinks 😁

I'm excited to hear how far the booooooos travel when they're playing Stoke on a cold wet November Tuesday evening in the championship 😉


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## pendodave (Dec 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			i like passion but you cant just kick out at an oppo having just scissor tackled him lol
		
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Scissor tackles are horrible things, and that one wasn't at all accidental. I'd have given him 2 yellows and seeya.
Just caught up with the game. KdB and Mahrez are artists of the highest quality. 
I thought that City's misses were more clear cut than liverpool's and that they deserved the win.
Overall though, for a neutral, it was just a wonderful treat.


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## Swinglowandslow (Dec 23, 2022)

Sorry to hear of the passing of George Cohen, one of the 66 lads.
Fulham first and last.
a fine man, by all accounts.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 23, 2022)

As a Fulham fan absolutely gutted. Met him several times at the Cottage and a real gent with a great sense of humour and a treasure trove of stories

https://www.skysports.com/football/...rld-cup-winner-and-fulham-legend-dies-aged-83


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 23, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606269725658320896
It’s disgusting and disgraceful- hope they find him and given full punishment, hope the girl is ok 

it’s getting very dangerous the actions between the two fanbases


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606269725658320896
It’s disgusting and disgraceful- hope they find him and given full punishment, hope the girl is ok

it’s getting very dangerous the actions between the two fanbases
		
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Yes agree.
What’s wrong with these people.!


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## Golfmmad (Dec 23, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Sorry to hear of the passing of George Cohen, one of the 66 lads.
Fulham first and last.
a fine man, by all accounts.
		
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Agreed, a great man and a brilliant defender.
So sad to hear of his passing.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 23, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Sorry to hear of the passing of George Cohen, one of the 66 lads.
Fulham first and last.
a fine man, by all accounts.
		
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Sad day, RIP George. Only Geoff Hurst and Bobby Charlton left now!


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606269725658320896
It’s disgusting and disgraceful- hope they find him and given full punishment, hope the girl is ok

it’s getting very dangerous the actions between the two fanbases
		
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Absolute scum


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 24, 2022)

Shocking tackle in the Wolves v Leicester youth match. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606339410844274689


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 24, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Shocking tackle in the Wolves v Leicester youth match.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606339410844274689

Click to expand...

That’s a disgusting tackle


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## fundy (Dec 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s a disgusting tackle
		
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its half of that, its certainly disgusting, its not a tackle at all, no intent to play the ball only to get the man


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## Tashyboy (Dec 24, 2022)

Tore his anterior cruciate ligament. He will be out for 9 months. And so should the Wolves player.


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 24, 2022)

More disgusting was some of the comments from Wolves fans on the tweet. I hate social media sometimes.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Mbuemo wins the diving contest at Brentford lol, Doherty an unlucky loser


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## srixon 1 (Dec 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Mbuemo wins the diving contest at Brentford lol, Doherty an unlucky loser
		
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The punishment needs to be harsher than a yellow card.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			The punishment needs to be harsher than a yellow card.
		
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Diving panel needs to sit after the game, retrospective bans dished out. Ill happily chair it


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## Billysboots (Dec 26, 2022)

Leicester are just awful at defending set pieces. Awful. I’m stunned that there has been no improvement in at least 18 months - that has to be the fault of the coaching staff, surely?


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Ref overruling Mike Dean when hes on VAR, expect he'll be having a rest for a few weeks off lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 26, 2022)

I know some are not happy with amazon but the ability to watch the game you want to watch is great. We have had Newcastle on the TV, I'm watching the Everton game on my tablet at the same time. So much better than being stuck with a game you don't care about. 

For those who haven't watched Everton v Wolves, ie anyone who isn't a fan of either club 😄, I can advise that Diego Costa is as likeable as ever. Oh, and as I type, absolute smash and grab from Wolves 🙄


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I know some are not happy with amazon but the ability to watch the game you want to watch is great. We have had Newcastle on the TV, I'm watching the Everton game on my tablet at the same time. So much better than being stuck with a game you don't care about.

For those who haven't watched Everton v Wolves, ie anyone who isn't a fan of either club 😄, I can advise that Diego Costa is as likeable as ever. Oh, and as I type, absolute smash and grab from Wolves 🙄
		
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Poor from Everton though.
If you can’t win the game make sure you don’t lose like that.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Mbuemo wins the diving contest at Brentford lol, Doherty an unlucky loser
		
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The other way around surley.
Clear dive by Doherty nothing, clear dive by Mbuemo 15 seconds later and he gets booked.
How’s that for consistency.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I know some are not happy with amazon but the ability to watch the game you want to watch is great. We have had Newcastle on the TV, I'm watching the Everton game on my tablet at the same time. So much better than being stuck with a game you don't care about.

For those who haven't watched Everton v Wolves, ie anyone who isn't a fan of either club 😄, I can advise that Diego Costa is as likeable as ever. Oh, and as I type, absolute smash and grab from Wolves 🙄
		
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was a real hard watch, turned over from the Newcastle game when they went 3-0 up. was night and day watching the 2 games

cant stand amazon personally, the ability to pick the game you want the only saving grace


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The other way around surley.
Clear dive by Doherty nothing, clear dive by Mbuemo 15 seconds later and he gets booked.
How’s that for consistency.
		
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I gave Mbuemo a 6, Doherty only got 5.9 lol

Mitrovic had an entry too on all accounts


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## pauljames87 (Dec 26, 2022)

Really impressed by Newcastle

Sure they have money and have bought a couple really expensive players but they have also worked wonders with what they already had in almaron and joelinton (he cost a lost few years ago but hadn't set alight)

Bought sensible players like tripper and pope 

They are refreshing to watch


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2022)

Stunning range of passing from TAA


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Stunning range of passing from TAA
		
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Anything he can do Mings can do better


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Anything he can do Mings can do better 

Click to expand...

Ridiculous the level of passing at the moment


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Watkins in danger of outNunezing Nunez here too 

Nasty that on Robertsons achilles


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Borderline suicidal how high this line Villa are playing under Emery


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2022)

Good to see Henderson carrying on his good form from the WC - been excellent so far today


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## GG26 (Dec 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Really impressed by Newcastle

Sure they have money and have bought a couple really expensive players but they have also worked wonders with what they already had in almaron and joelinton (he cost a lost few years ago but hadn't set alight)

Bought sensible players like tripper and pope

They are refreshing to watch
		
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Can’t say I enjoyed watching them today.  With eight minutes to go me and the lad were the only ones left on our row of 25 seats ☹️


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 26, 2022)

This match is set up for Villa to equalise and then Darwin Nunez to score an absolute screamer in the 95th minute to win it after all the chances he's missed so far.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Can someone explain Nunez MOTM to me plse?


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Can someone explain Nunez MOTM to me plse?
		
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He gave him it for effort ??
He played very well but missed a hat full of chances.
If he gets his finishing going he will be unplayable.

Strange game we had chances but also gave Villa chances.
MOM Matip imo.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

starting xi looks good, but not sure a premier league leader will have had many weaker benches on boxing day than the one we have tonight, depth of squad in danger of being exposed, be interesting to see if they add a few bodies in Jan


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			starting xi looks good, but not sure a premier league leader will have had many weaker benches on boxing day than the one we have tonight, depth of squad in danger of being exposed, be interesting to see if they add a few bodies in Jan
		
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Similar decisions to be made at both Arsenal and Newcastle. Both could probably do with two or three top quality additions to the squads, with money to do it presumably available at both, but would bringing in those players upset the current balance of what is so obviously working for them at the minute? And are the right players available at the right price to make those signings feasible?


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Similar decisions to be made at both Arsenal and Newcastle. Both could probably do with two or three top quality additions to the squads, with money to do it presumably available at both, but would bringing in those players upset the current balance of what is so obviously working for them at the minute? And are the right players available at the right price to make those signings feasible?
		
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I think theyll buy IF they can get who they want at the right price, harder than it seems in January, especially when selling clubs know what you need! Wouldnt be surprised to see a loan or two which is less likely to rock the boat potentially. Timing is critical too as trying to get Saliba, Saka and Martinelli to sign new long term deals currently too


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			I think theyll buy IF they can get who they want at the right price, harder than it seems in January, especially when selling clubs know what you need! Wouldnt be surprised to see a loan or two which is less likely to rock the boat potentially. Timing is critical too as trying to get Saliba, Saka and Martinelli to sign new long term deals currently too
		
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Where do you think Arsenal need to strengthen? To me they could probably do with a right back, although White seems to be doing OK there I think they need a proper right back rather than a natural CB covering that position. Also think a CM as an upgrade on Xhaka and a wide attacker, such a Cody Gakpo type player would improve them. And getting in a 20 goal a season striker would obviously be a big bonus, although not sure how many of them are currently available at the right price.

EDIT - other than that I would see it as bringing in players as cover for those you've already got. Not sure who you have to cover, for example, Tierney or Odegaard if they were injured.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

It really is depth we need in several positions, the starting XI is pretty good:

Centre midfielder to cover Partey or play alongside in some games in Xhakas spot
Attacking player ideally someone who can play wide right and also centrally but to cover Saka mainly (esp now Nelsons injured again)
A striker, I expect we wont sign an out and out striker but will use Nketiah and Martinelli as cover until the summer at least
A defender, right sided or centre half.

Theres plenty of the players within the squad who now are able to play in multiple positions, but the quality tails off quite steeply after the first 12 or 13, I expect Edu/Arteta will try and add versatile players where they can

We have some very good youngsters but none are quite ready it seems, Patino who is out on loan may be the closest


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Not sure how were losing here sigh, sucker punch


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Can someone explain Nunez MOTM to me plse?
		
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He was excellent until he went to put the ball in the net - Robbo was MOTM IMO


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## pauljames87 (Dec 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Not sure how were losing here sigh, sucker punch 

Click to expand...

I don't get how we are winning 

Can't keep the ball

Defending ok but not retaining it after winning it 

Pen was a pen tho as I don't think he dived he was defo put off his stride at speed but other than that we been rubbish 

Didn't think that was even a foul let alone a booking just then for coufal .. he got 100% ball and after the ball had gone (that he played) he got man.. surely it's all ball


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

lol Michael Oliver soooo bad


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## Bazzatron (Dec 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			was a real hard watch, turned over from the Newcastle game when they went 3-0 up. was night and day watching the 2 games

cant stand amazon personally, the ability to pick the game you want the only saving grace
		
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I loved it.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Bazzatron said:



			I loved it.
		
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you loved the last few minutes


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## pauljames87 (Dec 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			lol Michael Oliver soooo bad
		
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agreed. How did he give that. Head all day and he was looking straight at it


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

So cool from Saka, hopefully push on now


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Cheers Flappy old boy


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## paddyc (Dec 26, 2022)

BOOM! get in !


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

What a goal that is, get in Eddie


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## paddyc (Dec 26, 2022)

Now that is a proper goal Eddie.


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## BrianM (Dec 26, 2022)

Thank you Arsenal - £150 Coupon win!!

Got to say Odegaard has been tremendous, really really good player.
West Ham should never have been in that game to be fair, they've offered nothing going forward.
You just wonder if Arsenal can win this title, they look excellent going forward but the centre half's would probably be my only concern, unless they do business in January.

Ally must of read my mind, ha ha.


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Thank you Arsenal - £150 Coupon win!!

Got to say Odegaard has been tremendous, really really good player.
West Ham should never have been in that game to be fair, they've offered nothing going forward.
You just wonder if Arsenal can win this title, they look excellent going forward but the centre half's would probably be my only concern, unless they do business in January.

Ally must of read my mind, ha ha.
		
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Dont think people who dont watch Arsenal all the time realise how good (and improved) Oedegaard is. How do Norway not make the WC with him and Haaland!!!!

dont think well buy at Centre Half (rumoured to have done a deal for one next summer already), White and Tomiyasu will both play there if needed as does Holding

Id take this Rice kid from the oppo tonight though 

Much much better second half, all clicked together better. Excellent start in the side for Nketiah too. Another one ticked off


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## paddyc (Dec 26, 2022)

Quality  performance all round tonight. Once we got the equaliser the confidence started to flow.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607495565641744391
Blimey - didn’t expect this 

Not sure about him , wasn’t that impressed in the WC


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607495565641744391
Blimey - didn’t expect this

Not sure about him , wasn’t that impressed in the WC
		
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He looked great against us early in the season in the Europa, at sub 40m think youre getting a decent deal. Seems were going to have to pay close to double that if we want to get Mudryk which feels mighty dear


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 26, 2022)

Co
[QUOTE="Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607495565641744391
Blimey - didn’t expect this

Not sure about him , wasn’t that impressed in the WC
		
Click to expand...

Definitely think he's a better fit for Liverpool than he would've been at Utd. Strikes me as more a Salah/Mane type wide player rather than a central striker which to me is more what Utd need. Utd already have Anthony, Rashford, Sancho, Elanga & Garnacho that can play those wide roles. Will be a good addition to the Liverpool squad and give Klopp the chance to rotate his wide players and give others a rest. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have been an upgrade on the players Utd already have but doesn't seem the most important need for Utd at the minute.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 26, 2022)

That was the result arsenal and we deserved for the performance put in 

We looked better when we ditched soucek and had fornals and paquata but too late then 

Lego head is impossible to like as a manager he is classless on the touch line. Clearly a good manager on ability but Jesus is there anything he won't try to appeal for.. waving cards for nothing. Least Wenger you could respect


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			That was the result arsenal and we deserved for the performance put in

We looked better when we ditched soucek and had fornals and paquata but too late then

Lego head is impossible to like as a manager he is classless on the touch line. Clearly a good manager on ability but Jesus is there anything he won't try to appeal for.. waving cards for nothing. Least Wenger you could respect
		
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Think Id be more worried about your own manager currently, clearly less than the sum of the parts  There again Everton might take him back if you ask nicely


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 26, 2022)

Following my lot winning away at Gillingham this afternoon we've reported racist abuse against some of our players by the Gillingham fans. What on earth is wrong with these people? Gillingham have several black players in their squad. How do these morons think their own players feel about them doing this? I'm not raising this as a dig at Gillingham or their fans as every club, including my own, have these morons in their supporter base. How can you attend a football match and think it's acceptable to racially abuse an opposition player? And secondly how can you do that and not think about how your own players of that race will feel about you doing it?


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## Billysboots (Dec 26, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Definitely think he's a better fit for Liverpool than he would've been at Utd. Strikes me as more a Salah/Mane type wide player rather than a central striker which to me is more what Utd need. Utd already have Anthony, Rashford, Sancho, Elanga & Garnacho that can play those wide roles. Will be a good addition to the Liverpool squad and give Klopp the chance to rotate his wide players and give others a rest. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have been an upgrade on the players Utd already have but doesn't seem the most important need for Utd at the minute.
		
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Totally agree. I like Gakpo, but I did think it slightly odd that United were being so heavily linked with him. Not a priority at the moment, for the reasons you cite.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 27, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Following my lot winning away at Gillingham this afternoon we've reported racist abuse against some of our players by the Gillingham fans. What on earth is wrong with these people? Gillingham have several black players in their squad. How do these morons think their own players feel about them doing this? I'm not raising this as a dig at Gillingham or their fans as every club, including my own, have these morons in their supporter base. How can you attend a football match and think it's acceptable to racially abuse an opposition player? And secondly how can you do that and not think about how your own players of that race will feel about you doing it?
		
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Well done for taking that action. Was it simple to do? I think at Newcastle there is a number to text which is a very good, non threatening method of reporting.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

fundy said:



			He looked great against us early in the season in the Europa, at sub 40m think youre getting a decent deal. Seems were going to have to pay close to double that if we want to get Mudryk which feels mighty dear 

Click to expand...

Thankfully there are lots of compilations videos of him all over Twitter doing the rounds , created by Man Utd fans who were very exited he was signing for them 😁

it seems he is now rubbish and not suited for them Prem 😂

Seems very tall for a winger - looks like he will prob be playing from the left , also suspect that means Bobby will be leaving


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

I’ve not seen too many United fans saying he’s suddenly rubbish, Phil. But another wide player is not a priority, so not signing him is hardly the blow some back pages are making it out to be.

I suspect all the rumours connecting him to United arose primarily because thick, lazy journalists assume the club will now sign anyone Dutch simply because of the manager, hence the non-stop De Jong speculation and, more lately, Gakpo and Depay.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 27, 2022)

Watched MOTD and commentator mentioned how all but one of the Leicester players returned "unscathed" from the World Cup. The injured one, Maddison. Utter madness he even went. Arrived injured. Did nowt. Returned injured. What a waste of a squad place.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Well done for taking that action. Was it simple to do? I think at Newcastle there is a number to text which is a very good, non threatening method of reporting.
		
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Apologies for the confusion, the "we've" was the club rather than me personally. I didn't witness it and have only heard about it through a mate that was at the game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 27, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Apologies for the confusion, the "we've" was the club rather than me personally. I didn't witness it and have only heard about it through a mate that was at the game.
		
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No problem, as long as someone reported it 👍


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## BrianM (Dec 27, 2022)

Chelsea haven't needed to get out of 1st gear, Bournemouth have been really poor.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Chelsea haven't needed to get out of 1st gear, Bournemouth have been really poor.
		
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They will go down with Forest and a.n.other 

Pick one from 

Everton 😁
Fulham
Southampton


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2022)

If I was Maguire I'd be looking for a move in January.. bench with world cup winner Martinez still on holiday and world cup final player varane (who run himself into the ground and had to come off) preferred to the more rested harry.

I'd welcome him to us. I mean zouma is out again and Dawson wants to go back up north


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Maguire has been ill. Allegedly.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They will go down with Forest and a.n.other

Pick one from

Everton 😁
Fulham
Southampton
		
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Fulham to be relegated THIS season  Too much sherry


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

Wow - Man Utd fans chanting derogatory chants about Liverpool even though they aren’t playing them - how sad it that 😂😂


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2022)




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## Slime (Dec 27, 2022)




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## BrianM (Dec 27, 2022)

Rashford looking superb again.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2022)

Why spend so much time checking for a handball when the offside was so obvious?


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2022)

VAR doing it's job ........................................... eventually.


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## nickjdavis (Dec 27, 2022)

Re the Forest "goal"....why mess about worrying about the possibility of handball when the ball clearly went in off a player who was offside?

and how did it take so long? wasnt even close.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fulham to be relegated THIS season  Too much sherry
		
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I agree with you Homer.

Fulham stay up comfortably, Everton are dangerously teetering on the brink. 

The Everton twitterspace is fun this evening though🤣🤣


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## Bdill93 (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - Man Utd fans chanting derogatory chants about Liverpool even though they aren’t playing them - how sad it that 😂😂
		
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Doesn’t every club do this? We sing about Birmingham city being a dump (and worse) every single game without fail.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Doesn’t every club do this? We sing about Birmingham city being a dump (and worse) every single game without fail.
		
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Mainly just the Manchester Clubs sing the Band aid chant, used to be just Utd 

There maybe some other clubs sing it to jump on a bandwagon but why would you sing about Birmingham when you aren’t playing them 🤷‍♂️


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mainly just the Manchester Clubs sing the Band aid chant, used to be just Utd

There maybe some other clubs sing it to jump on a bandwagon but why would you sing about Birmingham when you aren’t playing them 🤷‍♂️
		
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It’s called rivalry Phil. United sing about Liverpool, Leeds, Man City - all traditional rivals. I’m rather puzzled why you’re puzzled by it 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## RichA (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mainly just the Manchester Clubs sing the Band aid chant, used to be just Utd

There maybe some other clubs sing it to jump on a bandwagon but why would you sing about Birmingham when you aren’t playing them 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

You don't recognise this old Anfield favourite?
We hate Nottingham Forest,
We hate Everton too – 
We hate Man United,
But Liverpool we love you


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			It’s called rivalry Phil. United sing about Liverpool, Leeds, Man City - all traditional rivals. I’m rather puzzled why you’re puzzled by it 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
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Is it not a touch sad to sing about poverty for another city when you’re not even playing said City- in fact it’s pretty pathetic is it not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

RichA said:



			You don't recognise this old Anfield favourite?
We hate Nottingham Forest,
We hate Everton too 
We hate Man United,
But Liverpool we love you
		
Click to expand...

Nope not heard that one recently 🤷‍♂️


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nope not heard that one recently 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Because you only hear what the fans of other clubs sing, clearly 🙄


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it not a touch sad to sing about poverty for another city when you’re not even playing said City- in fact it’s pretty pathetic is it not.
		
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Stop being so offended, Phil. Liverpool fans are hardly paragons of virtue. 🙄


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Stop being so offended, Phil. Liverpool fans are hardly paragons of virtue. 🙄
		
Click to expand...

So you think it’s something that’s ok for people to chant it at a football match then - it is offensive, very offensive even more so at this current situation peole find themselves in.

Why is it just football where these sort of chants are just brushed off as “banter” and “rivalry” as if it’s ok


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nope not heard that one recently 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

You mean you’ve not seen it reported on social media? 😂
You don’t actually hear all nasty these chants directed at Liverpool 🙄


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## Bdill93 (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mainly just the Manchester Clubs sing the Band aid chant, used to be just Utd

There maybe some other clubs sing it to jump on a bandwagon but why would you sing about Birmingham when you aren’t playing them 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Why would they sing about us? Why would Baggies? 

Rivalry springs to mind. 

One of our oldest songs is “my old man said” 

If you think Liverpool fans just politely sing Liverpool Liverpool then maybe pop to a game some time 😂


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you think it’s something that’s ok for people to chant it at a football match then - it is offensive, very offensive even more so at this current situation peole find themselves in.

Why is it just football where these sort of chants are just brushed off as “banter” and “rivalry” as if it’s ok
		
Click to expand...

Get a grip man. If you’re a football fan you have to accept there are songs and chants that you may find distasteful. I’m not defending it. But your attitude borders on prudish.

Need I refer to a certain chant about Munich which has been doing the rounds for more years than I’ve been alive?

If you’re that easily offended by terrace chanting turn the volume down.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Rashford looking superb again.
		
Click to expand...

He needs a good 2nd half to the season.
Looks to be playing with confidence & needs to step up & live up to the “potential tag” imo.


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			He needs a good 2nd half to the season.
Looks to be playing with confidence & needs to step up & live up to the “potential tag” imo.
		
Click to expand...

We’re seeing glimpses of what he’s capable of, and it’s down to confidence. And that, in turn, is down to the manager.


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2022)




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## Slime (Dec 27, 2022)

Casemiro .................................... signing of the season?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Get a grip man. If you’re a football fan you have to accept there are songs and chants that you may find distasteful. I’m not defending it. But your attitude borders on prudish.

Need I refer to a certain chant about Munich which has been doing the rounds for more years than I’ve been alive?

If you’re that easily offended by terrace chanting turn the volume down.
		
Click to expand...

Hence the whole point

Why is it just football where or indeed mainly club football or England or some clubs where this sort of stuff is “accepted”

Chants about Munich are disgusting , chants about Hillsborough are disgusting  , chants about poverty are disgusting. Why should it be ignored - why shouldn’t clubs or the governing bodies do something about it

It’s beyond pathetic and should never be just accepted - it’s not rivalry , it’s not banter and it should be stopped

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...nsive-chants-hillsborough-liverpool-ian-byrne


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			Casemiro .................................... signing of the season?
		
Click to expand...

Doubted by so many, too. But he’s an absolute class act.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			We’re seeing glimpses of what he’s capable of, and it’s down to confidence. And that, in turn, is down to the manager.
		
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Always thought he was mega over hyped tbh.
But been impressed with him lately.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Doubted by so many, too. But he’s an absolute class act.
		
Click to expand...

I'll admit to being one of the doubters. My thinking was that Real Madrid don't tend to let top players leave very often, those that leave them are normally past their best and on the decline. If Utd can get in a decent centre forward, and possibly one or two others, I don't think that they'd be too far off challenging for the title again.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			Casemiro .................................... signing of the season?
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think anyone can take that crown from Haaland but he’s been very very good. One of the best signings you’ve made in years.


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hence the whole point

Why is it just football where or indeed mainly club football or England or some clubs where this sort of stuff is “accepted”

Chants about Munich are disgusting , chants about Hillsborough are disgusting  , chants about poverty are disgusting. Why should it be ignored - why shouldn’t clubs or the governing bodies do something about it

It’s beyond pathetic and should never be just accepted - it’s not rivalry , it’s not banter and it should be stopped
		
Click to expand...

You really want to sanitise terrace songs? Good luck with that. The minority of songs/chants are derogatory in some way but they are absolutely impossible to stamp out. 

There really are more important things to worry about when it comes to football, Phil. Like diving, poor refereeing, ticket prices and availability, financial fair play, racism. The odd offensive chant is pretty low down the list of priorities.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hence the whole point

Why is it just football where or indeed mainly club football or England or some clubs where this sort of stuff is “accepted”

Chants about Munich are disgusting , chants about Hillsborough are disgusting  , chants about poverty are disgusting. Why should it be ignored - why shouldn’t clubs or the governing bodies do something about it

It’s beyond pathetic and should never be just accepted - it’s not rivalry , it’s not banter and it should be stopped

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...nsive-chants-hillsborough-liverpool-ian-byrne

Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



			Hence the whole point

Why is it just football where or indeed mainly club football or England or some clubs where this sort of stuff is “accepted”

Chants about Munich are disgusting , chants about Hillsborough are disgusting  , chants about poverty are disgusting. Why should it be ignored - why shouldn’t clubs or the governing bodies do something about it

It’s beyond pathetic and should never be just accepted - it’s not rivalry , it’s not banter and it should be stopped

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...nsive-chants-hillsborough-liverpool-ian-byrne

Click to expand...

have you tried emailing the governing bodies about it?
Not sure bringing it up on here EVERY week is going to achieve much buddy 🤷‍♂️


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## IanM (Dec 27, 2022)

Sorry, but if you have to ask why any team sing about a rival when not playing them, you haven't spent much time in a footy ground.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Get a grip man. If you’re a football fan you have to accept there are songs and chants that you may find distasteful. I’m not defending it. But your attitude borders on prudish.

Need I refer to a certain chant about Munich which has been doing the rounds for more years than I’ve been alive?

If you’re that easily offended by terrace chanting turn the volume down.
		
Click to expand...

These conversations come up every year, the same things are said and yet nothing changes 👍


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## Bdill93 (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			You really want to sanitise terrace songs? Good luck with that. The minority of songs/chants are derogatory in some way but they are absolutely impossible to stamp out.

There really are more important things to worry about when it comes to football, Phil. Like diving, poor refereeing, ticket prices and availability, financial fair play, racism. The odd offensive chant is pretty low down the list of priorities.
		
Click to expand...

I’ll add - singing about disasters is very low - not something I’ve heard at villa personally or any away game I’ve been to and I’ve done hundreds.

When we visited Hillsborough we even went to the memorial to pay our respects - it could have happened to anyone/ any team and football fans on the whole respect these tragedies greatly.

Signing “sign on, sign on” is not even in the same world of offence in my eyes.


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2022)

In order to rid the terraces of offensive singing, first you would have to rid the terraces of spectators!
Do you want to ban swearing from football grounds.
Good luck with that and don't forget to tell the players, too.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2022)

IanM said:



			Sorry, but if you have to ask why any team sing about a rival when not playing them, you haven't spent much time in a footy ground.
		
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🤣🤣🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			You really want to sanitise terrace songs? Good luck with that. The minority of songs/chants are derogatory in some way but they are absolutely impossible to stamp out.

There really are more important things to worry about when it comes to football, Phil. Like diving, poor refereeing, ticket prices and availability, financial fair play, racism. The odd offensive chant is pretty low down the list of priorities.
		
Click to expand...

Why is it impossible ? 

Stadium bans , clubs playing behind closed doors , many ways to go towards removing a certain level of chants - other sports can manage it , are we saying that football fans are that low on intelligence that they just can’t stop - it’s something that has to happen or they can’t enjoy the game.

Maybe more people need to actually condone them instead of looking to find ways to excuse them - instead of just brushing it off as “banter and rivalry” maybe it needs more fans to stand up and say it shouldn’t be sung.


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Always thought he was mega over hyped tbh.
But been impressed with him lately.
		
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He’s been hugely frustrating to watch for too long. I’ve said it so many times, but whilst he’s always been capable of the extraordinary, all too often he makes a hash of the ordinary. For two or three years it’s become the norm to see him run with the ball straight down a blind alley and lose possession - his decision making, in particular when to offload to a teammate, has been a real failing.

If he continues on his current trajectory as a player, and continues to do the simple things better, he will be a far, far improved footballer for it.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it impossible ?

Stadium bans , clubs playing behind closed doors , many ways to go towards removing a certain level of chants - other sports can manage it , are we saying that football fans are that low on intelligence that they just can’t stop - it’s something that has to happen or they can’t enjoy the game.

Maybe more people need to actually condone them instead of looking to find ways to excuse them - instead of just brushing it off as “banter and rivalry” maybe it needs more fans to stand up and say it shouldn’t be sung.
		
Click to expand...

It’s hard to work out what world you actually live in or what planet you’re from.
Maybe start a petition or something.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

Does anyone else actually pick up on these songs when sat at home watching a match?


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Does anyone else actually pick up on these songs when sat at home watching a match?
		
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I noticed nothing tonight.


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it impossible ?

Stadium bans , clubs playing behind closed doors , many ways to go towards removing a certain level of chants - other sports can manage it , are we saying that football fans are that low on intelligence that they just can’t stop - it’s something that has to happen or they can’t enjoy the game.

Maybe more people need to actually condone them instead of looking to find ways to excuse them - instead of just brushing it off as “banter and rivalry” maybe it needs more fans to stand up and say it shouldn’t be sung.
		
Click to expand...

Have you ever policed a football match? I have. It would be impossible to identify who sings what, so forget stadium bans right now. Not happening.

And playing games behind closed doors? Preventing 74500 people from attending Old Trafford because of the actions of a few hundred? Are you serious? How long do you lock the turnstiles? For one game? Then at the next game a couple of hundred United fans sing a couple of lines about Liverpool, a couple of lines that have to be viewed subjectively I might add, and so the process begins again. Can you see yet how ridiculous this all sounds?

You will never, ever stamp out stadium chants unless we’re all singing from an order of service printed in the match program.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			I noticed nothing tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe you’re not following the right people on Twitter that report it 😉


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Does anyone else actually pick up on these songs when sat at home watching a match?
		
Click to expand...

Only if I’m listening out specifically for them so I can try and cause an online spat. And I have way more important things to do. Like try and actually enjoy a football match, which is why I watch in the first place.


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maybe you’re not following the right people on Twitter that report it 😉
		
Click to expand...

I'm watching the game, too busy for social media.
Come to think of it, when I'm doing absolutely nothing, I'm still too busy for mainstream social media!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			I noticed nothing tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Around about 15 mins into the game the Man Utd fans started singing Feed the Scousers to the tune of Band Aid clearly audible on the Amazon Prime broadcast to anyone watching - happy to help 👍

also a

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/...leicester-city-fans-foodbanks-poverty-1373744


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

So basically Phil I think we all agree that it’s not nice.
But don’t spend so much time listening out for it & try not to let it spoil your viewing experience.

oh & don’t feel the need to report on here so much,we all know it happens 👍🏻


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2022)

In these times when foodbanks are heavily relied upon around the country, and opposing fans bring donations to support that teams local foodbank's,  i'm sure you'd agree it's poor taste to be singing about feeding scousers or any other region for that matter when theres kids not geting enough food? 

Even more so when one of you're own players has spent the last 2yrs campaigning and highlighting the problem in his very own City. 🤦‍♂️

Whilst its not offensive to me personally, i hear it and shake my head. There's at least 12 foodbanks in Salford alone, its a bit meh and should be jibbed imo.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Around about 15 mins into the game the Man Utd fans started singing Feed the Scousers to the tune of Band Aid clearly audible on the Amazon Prime broadcast to anyone watching - happy to help 👍
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂
Phil did you sit watching with a note pad jotting down the times? 

Minute 63 Rashford spat on the floor….disgusting
😂😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Have you ever policed a football match? I have. It would be impossible to identify who sings what, so forget stadium bans right now. Not happening.

And playing games behind closed doors? Preventing 74500 people from attending Old Trafford because of the actions of a few hundred? Are you serious? How long do you lock the turnstiles? For one game? Then at the next game a couple of hundred United fans sing a couple of lines about Liverpool, a couple of lines that have to be viewed subjectively I might add, and so the process begins again. Can you see yet how ridiculous this all sounds?

You will never, ever stamp out stadium chants unless we’re all singing from an order of service printed in the match program.
		
Click to expand...

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/...leicester-city-fans-foodbanks-poverty-1373744

“And any criticism of their song will be viewed as a stance of unhelpful wokeness, that term used as an insult by those who refuse to believe that “wokeness” simply reflects an intention not to be an irredeemable d___. We are at the football and at the football we banter. If you can’t stand the heat, stay at home in your echo chamber, snowflake.”

“
But that argument falls down quickly. Chants about racism and homophobia are against the law and thus punishable, but there are other topics that almost every football supporter would consider beyond the pale on decency grounds. You would not chant about cancer or, to be topical, you would not mock those who have died of Covid-19. That suggests that an unwritten code does exist. And poverty should be part of that code.

For banter to avoid becoming b*nter, it must have a vein of humour running through it. What is funny about 2.5 million people in the UK using a food bank in 2020 and 2021? Where is the punchline in children growing up in abject poverty and often not getting a hot meal from one day to the next? At what point do you think using the state of a nation in which almost a quarter of households are behind on their bills is something to joke about rather than lament?”


But worse than that, poverty chants are a grim example of punching down. It is particularly tasteless at football matches because football was a working-class sport that eventually transformed into middle-class leisure pursuit through the rise in ticket prices and because it is one of the few places where people gather en masse and proudly display their tribalism. Very few at the King Power on Tuesday will have experienced poverty because the cheapest season ticket renewal in the East Stand cost £420 last summer. 

As for the geographical slur to Merseyside, take a look around you. According to the End Child Poverty Coalition, in 2017 Leicester was eighth in the table of local authorities with the highest rates of child poverty in the UK; the percentage of children in poverty after housing costs was 41 per cent. In January this year, 12 per cent of adults in the city were worried about having enough food. Rising energy prices, the end of the Universal Credit uplift and the impact of Covid-19 will only make things harder. Leicester City are a football club that does brilliant things for its community. If nothing else, demonstrate your love for that club by following their example.


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			So basically Phil I think we all agree that it’s not nice.
But don’t spend so much time listening out for it & try not to let it spoil your viewing experience.

oh & don’t feel the need to report on here so much,we all know it happens 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

It’s not especially nice. But it’s part of the game, one traditionally followed by the working classes, and as such it’s so ingrained that it will never be eradicated. Never.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			In these times when foodbanks are heavily relied upon around the country, and opposing fans bring donations to support that teams local foodbank's,  i'm sure you'd agree it's poor taste to be singing about feeding scousers or any other region for that matter when theres kids not geting enough food?

Even more so when one of you're own players has spent the last 2yrs campaigning and highlighting the problem in his very own City. 🤦‍♂️

Whilst it’s not offensive to me personally, i hear it and shake my head. There's at least 12 foodbanks in Salford alone, it’s a bit meh and should be jibbed imo.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed it’s out of order & daft.
But like you say,just shake your head at it.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2022)

It's funny how people turn a blind eye about kids not eating enough  and food poverty yet get all outraged at a few people booing a song about a mythical god saving a multi billionaire 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Its only banter......


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/...leicester-city-fans-foodbanks-poverty-1373744

“And any criticism of their song will be viewed as a stance of unhelpful wokeness, that term used as an insult by those who refuse to believe that “wokeness” simply reflects an intention not to be an irredeemable d___. We are at the football and at the football we banter. If you can’t stand the heat, stay at home in your echo chamber, snowflake.”

“
But that argument falls down quickly. Chants about racism and homophobia are against the law and thus punishable, but there are other topics that almost every football supporter would consider beyond the pale on decency grounds. You would not chant about cancer or, to be topical, you would not mock those who have died of Covid-19. That suggests that an unwritten code does exist. And poverty should be part of that code.

For banter to avoid becoming b*nter, it must have a vein of humour running through it. What is funny about 2.5 million people in the UK using a food bank in 2020 and 2021? Where is the punchline in children growing up in abject poverty and often not getting a hot meal from one day to the next? At what point do you think using the state of a nation in which almost a quarter of households are behind on their bills is something to joke about rather than lament?”


But worse than that, poverty chants are a grim example of punching down. It is particularly tasteless at football matches because football was a working-class sport that eventually transformed into middle-class leisure pursuit through the rise in ticket prices and because it is one of the few places where people gather en masse and proudly display their tribalism. Very few at the King Power on Tuesday will have experienced poverty because the cheapest season ticket renewal in the East Stand cost £420 last summer.

As for the geographical slur to Merseyside, take a look around you. According to the End Child Poverty Coalition, in 2017 Leicester was eighth in the table of local authorities with the highest rates of child poverty in the UK; the percentage of children in poverty after housing costs was 41 per cent. In January this year, 12 per cent of adults in the city were worried about having enough food. Rising energy prices, the end of the Universal Credit uplift and the impact of Covid-19 will only make things harder. Leicester City are a football club that does brilliant things for its community. If nothing else, demonstrate your love for that club by following their example.
		
Click to expand...

Seriously Phil you need to chill out mate.
This is a football thread on a golf forum.


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/...leicester-city-fans-foodbanks-poverty-1373744

“And any criticism of their song will be viewed as a stance of unhelpful wokeness, that term used as an insult by those who refuse to believe that “wokeness” simply reflects an intention not to be an irredeemable d___. We are at the football and at the football we banter. If you can’t stand the heat, stay at home in your echo chamber, snowflake.”

“
But that argument falls down quickly. Chants about racism and homophobia are against the law and thus punishable, but there are other topics that almost every football supporter would consider beyond the pale on decency grounds. You would not chant about cancer or, to be topical, you would not mock those who have died of Covid-19. That suggests that an unwritten code does exist. And poverty should be part of that code.

For banter to avoid becoming b*nter, it must have a vein of humour running through it. What is funny about 2.5 million people in the UK using a food bank in 2020 and 2021? Where is the punchline in children growing up in abject poverty and often not getting a hot meal from one day to the next? At what point do you think using the state of a nation in which almost a quarter of households are behind on their bills is something to joke about rather than lament?”


But worse than that, poverty chants are a grim example of punching down. It is particularly tasteless at football matches because football was a working-class sport that eventually transformed into middle-class leisure pursuit through the rise in ticket prices and because it is one of the few places where people gather en masse and proudly display their tribalism. Very few at the King Power on Tuesday will have experienced poverty because the cheapest season ticket renewal in the East Stand cost £420 last summer.

As for the geographical slur to Merseyside, take a look around you. According to the End Child Poverty Coalition, in 2017 Leicester was eighth in the table of local authorities with the highest rates of child poverty in the UK; the percentage of children in poverty after housing costs was 41 per cent. In January this year, 12 per cent of adults in the city were worried about having enough food. Rising energy prices, the end of the Universal Credit uplift and the impact of Covid-19 will only make things harder. Leicester City are a football club that does brilliant things for its community. If nothing else, demonstrate your love for that club by following their example.
		
Click to expand...

Phil, rather than cutting and pasting the above, try and confront the realities. One person’s offensive chant is, whether you or any academic like it or not, another person’s banter. The only way you ever stamp out what you deem an unsavoury chant, is to get everyone else to agree it’s unsavoury, then draw up a proscribed list of chants/words, then identify those responsible for uttering them, and then find a way of policing it.

You might as well try and plait fog.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It's funny how people turn a blind eye about kids not eating enough  and food poverty yet get all outraged at a few people booing a song about a mythical god saving a multi billionaire 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Its only banter......
		
Click to expand...

Here we go 🎻🎻🎻🎻


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2022)

It is possible to watch football with the volume turned down.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			It is possible to watch football with the volume turned down.
		
Click to expand...

I did this evening


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

I’m off to bed. Goodnight all.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			It is possible to watch football with the volume turned down.
		
Click to expand...

But then you might miss anything offensive 😨
Where’s the fun in that? 😂


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I’m off to bed. Goodnight all.
		
Click to expand...

G'night Billy.

GGMU


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Phil, rather than cutting and pasting the above, try and confront the realities. One person’s offensive chant is, whether you or any academic like it or not, another person’s banter. The only way you ever stamp out what you deem an unsavoury chant, is to get everyone else to agree it’s unsavoury, then draw up a proscribed list of chants/words, then identify those responsible for uttering them, and then find a way of policing it.

You might as well try and plait fog.
		
Click to expand...

It’s ok - you made your stance clear that chants about poverty are just “part of the game” and are ok if some people think it’s just banter

As long as that’s the line drawn in the sand and anything derogatory can just be dismissed as banter.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I did this evening
		
Click to expand...

It is far safer watching it quietly when Missis T is watching Emmerdale 😉


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s ok - you made your stance clear that chants about poverty are just “part of the game” and are ok if some people think it’s just banter

As long as that’s the line drawn in the sand and anything derogatory can just be dismissed as banter.
		
Click to expand...

If you want me to get an infraction you’re going the right way about it. I never said anything of the sort.

Wind your neck in.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			It is far safer watching it quietly when Missis T is watching Emmerdale 😉
		
Click to expand...

I'd rather listen to the commentary than to that tripe.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			If you want me to get an infraction you’re going the right way about it. I never said anything of the sort.

Wind your neck in.
		
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Thought you were going to bed?🤣🤣


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			If you want me to get an infraction you’re going the right way about it. I never said anything of the sort.

Wind your neck in.
		
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Billysboots said:



			It’s not especially nice. *But it’s part of the game, *one traditionally followed by the working classes, and as such it’s so ingrained that it will never be eradicated. Never.
		
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maybe I misunderstood that comment then ?
🤷‍♂️

I didn’t realise highlighting derogatory chants at a football match was such a bad thing - people seem to be more offended at that as opposed to what people are actually chanting - I’m just surprised the victim statement hasn’t been used yet


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## Swango1980 (Dec 27, 2022)

Man Utd were playing tonight. So, was time for Liverpoolphil to get the notepad out, get on twitter and look for as many reasons to get offended as possible. Loves playing the victim on nights like this.

Imagine we all did this when our rivals played


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd rather listen to the commentary than to that tripe.
		
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only time she gets fresh air.


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## Billysboots (Dec 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			maybe I misunderstood that comment then ?
🤷‍♂️

I didn’t realise highlighting derogatory chants at a football match was such a bad thing - people seem to be more offended at that as opposed to what people are actually chanting - I’m just surprised the victim statement hasn’t been used yet
		
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Where did I say it was okay? It’s clearly part of the game, that’s undeniable. But you are trying to score cheap points by taking my words out of context and suggesting I support offensive chanting.  

I don’t. So kindly get off your high horse and stop acting all hard done by. 

Goodnight all. And that includes you, Phil 😉


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 27, 2022)

Getting back to the football….gifted United two goals with piss poor defence. Gave ball away cheaply and need to find some finishing in the final 3rd. 

Some observations;

- Emmanuel Dennis is terrible. Passed more balls to united players in 20 minutes than Casemiro did all game 😂

- speaking of which Casemiro is the signing of the season. Class act all round

- Rashford also a baller who is underrated

- we desperately missed Gibbs-White and could have done with Scarpa being allowed to play to help with the final balls. 

- hopefully we sign a centre back in Jan. 

- Serge Aurier continues to be an absolute lad. Pleasantly surprised with him since coming in. 

- still seeing encouraging signs vs the team two months ago. Just lack belief in themselves more than anything. 

Saints look horrible, and there are 4 other teams who also look like they could go down, so we just need to be better than them, and not worry too much about games like tonight where we’re not expected to win. Only 11 points between us and 7th, so the compact nature of the league this season helps our chances of staying up. 

Either way, I’m enjoying the ride. Looking forward to a day out on New Years Day.


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## backwoodsman (Dec 27, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Getting back to the football….gifted United two goals with piss poor defence. Gave ball away cheaply and need to find some finishing in the final 3rd.

Some observations;

- Emmanuel Dennis is terrible. Passed more balls to united players in 20 minutes than Casemiro did all game 😂

- speaking of which Casemiro is the signing of the season. Class act all round

- Rashford also a baller who is underrated

- we desperately missed Gibbs-White and could have done with Scarpa being allowed to play to help with the final balls.

- hopefully we sign a centre back in Jan.

- Serge Aurier continues to be an absolute lad. Pleasantly surprised with him since coming in.

- still seeing encouraging signs vs the team two months ago. Just lack belief in themselves more than anything.

Saints look horrible, and there are 4 other teams who also look like they could go down, so we just need to be better than them, and not worry too much about games like tonight where we’re not expected to win. Only 11 points between us and 7th, so the compact nature of the league this season helps our chances of staying up.

Either way, I’m enjoying the ride. Looking forward to a day out on New Years Day.
		
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Glad you see more positives than I do.  

Fair enough, didn't expect anything other than a loss tonight, but the level of just giving the ball away was dire. (Agree about Dennis). Perhaps Cooper needs to teach them that some other teams wear red & its not always a good idea to pass to someone in a red shirt.


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 27, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Glad you see more positives than I do. 

Fair enough, didn't expect anything other than a loss tonight, but the level of just giving the ball away was dire. (Agree about Dennis). Perhaps Cooper needs to teach them that some other teams wear red & its not always a good idea to pass to someone in a red shirt.
		
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Compared to where we were vs Leicester, Bournemouth, Fulham etc, we are much more organised and generally much improved. 
There’s still a long way to go, but we’ve put in encouraging performances against Blackburn in the cup as well as Spurs in the cup and Liverpool at home. Based on what I’ve seen, I genuinely believe Scarpa can come in and change the dynamic and give us that quality in attack that we’re missing.


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## backwoodsman (Dec 28, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Compared to where we were vs Leicester, Bournemouth, Fulham etc, we are much more organised and generally much improved.
There’s still a long way to go, but we’ve put in encouraging performances against Blackburn in the cup as well as Spurs in the cup and Liverpool at home. Based on what I’ve seen, I genuinely believe Scarpa can come in and change the dynamic and give us that quality in attack that we’re missing.
		
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Not giving up on my bet yet  - but we do do stuff that dents one's confidence. Feel (hope?) a better performance is coming at home v Chelsea.  (Hope so, as my main golfing mate is a Chelsea season ticket holder and I need the bragging rights).


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 28, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Not giving up on my bet yet  - but we do do stuff that dents one's confidence. Feel (hope?) a better performance is coming at home v Chelsea.  (Hope so, as my main golfing mate is a Chelsea season ticket holder and I need the bragging rights).
		
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As do I. I’ve not seen them lose at the city ground yet this season, so hopefully that trend continues.
A win against the saints is a must.

As an aside to tonight’s loss, the injuries to no less than 6 starting players is really hindering us, as no matter how you look at it and how many players we bought in the summer, we just don’t have the depth to be able to deal with that in the same way the established PL teams do. 

Defensively we’ve not looked the same since 
Niakhaté went out on opening day. Richards, who was pegged as our starting LB, has yet to train with the 1st team
Kouyaté crocked at the World Cup and really came into his own just before the break. 
Gibbs White is easily our best player and is greatly missed
Lingard, it seems, hasn’t been playing at 100% for much of the season, which might explain the below par performances. 

Can’t afford many more injuries and need as many of the above back as soon as possible.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607792228713529344😂😂 brilliant 

https://www.odditycentral.com/news/...-the-greatest-conman-in-football-history.html


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Saints look horrible, and there are 4 other teams who also look like they could go down, so we just need to be better than them, and not worry too much about games like tonight where we’re not expected to win. Only 11 points between us and 7th, so the compact nature of the league this season helps our chances of staying up.
		
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This is the key thing. I'm in the same boat at this stage, Everton. Season is looking poor and scary but we only have to be better than 3 other teams. Bournemouth, Southampton, Forest and Everton I think are in most trouble, wolves, Leeds, West ham I think should have too much.

Getting to 10th isn't a discussion, either of us just need to better than 3 others. Nothing more this year, sadly.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 28, 2022)

Another thread bites the dust for a while. As soon as I saw there were 4 pages I hadn't read since about 9pm last night I knew who would be prolific in the "discussion"...

Note to self - skip to the last page in future


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## Billysboots (Dec 28, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Compared to where we were vs Leicester, Bournemouth, Fulham etc, we are much more organised and generally much improved.
There’s still a long way to go, but we’ve put in encouraging performances against Blackburn in the cup as well as Spurs in the cup and Liverpool at home. Based on what I’ve seen, I genuinely believe Scarpa can come in and change the dynamic and give us that quality in attack that we’re missing.
		
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But you really need to sort that defence out. In 30+ years of the Premier League, never have I seen a striker afforded the sort of space from a corner that Rashford was for United’s opener. It was breathtaking just how much room he had.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Getting back to the football….gifted United two goals with piss poor defence. Gave ball away cheaply and need to find some finishing in the final 3rd.

Some observations;

- Emmanuel Dennis is terrible. Passed more balls to united players in 20 minutes than Casemiro did all game 😂

- speaking of which Casemiro is the signing of the season. Class act all round

- Rashford also a baller who is underrated

- we desperately missed Gibbs-White and could have done with Scarpa being allowed to play to help with the final balls.

- hopefully we sign a centre back in Jan.

- Serge Aurier continues to be an absolute lad. Pleasantly surprised with him since coming in.

- still seeing encouraging signs vs the team two months ago. Just lack belief in themselves more than anything.

Saints look horrible, and there are 4 other teams who also look like they could go down, so we just need to be better than them, and not worry too much about games like tonight where we’re not expected to win. Only 11 points between us and 7th, so the compact nature of the league this season helps our chances of staying up.

Either way, I’m enjoying the ride. Looking forward to a day out on New Years Day.
		
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There are going to be a number of fans hoping there are three teams worse than theirs to help them stay up 

There are ten points between 9th and the bottom club 

For teams to stay up they need to have something in their squad giving them that extra bit of a quality 

Looking at the teams 

Leeds , West Ham , Leicester , Palace ,Wolves , Brentford , Villa and Leeds have proven Prem players within their squad that can get them to safety 

Fulham have Mitrovic - if he can keep scoring then they stay up

That leaves -Bournemouth, Everton, Forest and Southampton 

They all lack any real quality within their squads , Forest have brought in a lot but none of the players stand out as being good enough 

Those last three spots I think Forest and Bournemouth will be two and then the last will be a fight between Everton and Southampton but if Fulham lose Mitrovic they will be dragged into it


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## Fade and Die (Dec 28, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			It’s not especially nice. But it’s part of the game, one traditionally followed by the working classes, and as such it’s so ingrained that it will never be eradicated. Never.
		
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Bingo, it’s a working class game and what excites the working class may scare people not used to such stuff. 

Football is all about passion, rivalry and tribalism. If you take that away from the game what are you left with? Probably Rugby. 

It’s the stuff the people like Phil are (faux) offended by that adds the passion on match day. Reminds me a bit of Pulps Common People… 

“Sing along with the common people
Sing along and it might just get you through
Laugh along with the common people
Laugh along even though they're really laughing at you
And the stupid things that you do
Because you think that football is cool”


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## Swango1980 (Dec 28, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Bingo, it’s a working class game and what excites the working class may scare people not used to such stuff.

Football is all about passion, rivalry and tribalism. If you take that away from the game what are you left with? Probably Rugby.

It’s the stuff the people like Phil are (faux) offended by that adds the passion on match day. Reminds me a bit of Pulps Common People…

“Sing along with the common people
Sing along and it might just get you through
Laugh along with the common people
Laugh along even though they're really laughing at you
And the stupid things that you do
Because you think that football is cool”
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. There are plenty of songs aimed at rival fans that are amusing and pretty light hearted. Man Utd fans are not going to chant "ohhh, we don't like Liverpool, lalalalala, but nonetheless, Scousers are a great set of people and Liverpool is a fabulous city, lalalalala, but we always like to see them lose a game"

They will pick up on stereotypes. If Utd fans sing against Liverpool, and mention the job market, burglary, moustaches and shell suits, I doubt most Liverpool fans are actually truly offended? Many probably see the funny side, expect it, and give as good as they get when singing about Manchester. Been going on for decades and decades. Clearly, there are certain chants that cross the line of what most would consider appropriate, and so songs about Hillsborough or Munich are not going to be appreciated by most fans.

Just remembering one particular song at my local Northern Ireland club that was sung against our rivals at every single game. I won't repeat it, but it involved guns and murder. Pretty nasty stuff, yet in the 80's, early 90's most thought it was good natured humour. So, it must happen at most clubs.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

Football is no longer a working man’s game , stopped being that a long time ago , the days of Alf Garnett no longer valid in a modern society , the days of working Mon to Friday and then letting the frustrations out on the terraces and saying whatever they want no longer exist

Fans can’t just chant whatever they want because they thinks it’s funny or banter - that’s not how it works anymore, we aren’t in the 70’s or 80’s or 90’s or even 00’s - what some think was acceptable back then isn’t acceptable now and it can’t be brushed off with comments like “faux outrage” or snowflake etc 

Football fans can go to a game and enjoy the sport without the need to chant offensive chants - that doesn’t mean it’s sanitised or no swearing or no rivalry etc they just don’t cross the line 

Chants about Racism , bigotry, poverty , deaths , serious illness , homophobic etc are not acceptable in the modern day and many many fans and clubs can watch their team without the need to chant about them. It’s not “passion” to chant these sort of things 

There is a reason why not one single player has come out as gay whilst still playing top flight football - because they know those low IQ fans won’t be able to not chant derogatory comments 

Football is not different to any other sport - it doesn’t have this protected status where fans can act how they like 

A lot of good work has been done over the years by the sport to rid itself of the cancerous element that put a stain on the sport. 

Instead of looking to find ways to justify it because it happened in the olden days how about condone it and that also includes using phrases like “victims”. Or maybe some just find it hard to call out their own fans when they cross the line


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## Fade and Die (Dec 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Football is no longer a working man’s game , stopped being that a long time ago , the days of Alf Garnett no longer valid in a modern society , the days of working Mon to Friday and then letting the frustrations out on the terraces and saying whatever they want no longer exist

Fans can’t just chant whatever they want because they thinks it’s funny or banter - that’s not how it works anymore, we aren’t in the 70’s or 80’s or 90’s or even 00’s - what some think was acceptable back then isn’t acceptable now and it can’t be brushed off with comments like “faux outrage” or snowflake etc

Football fans can go to a game and enjoy the sport without the need to chant offensive chants - that doesn’t mean it’s sanitised or no swearing or no rivalry etc they just don’t cross the line

Chants about Racism , bigotry, poverty , deaths , serious illness , homophobic etc are not acceptable in the modern day and many many fans and clubs can watch their team without the need to chant about them. It’s not “passion” to chant these sort of things

There is a reason why not one single player has come out as gay whilst still playing top flight football - because they know those low IQ fans won’t be able to not chant derogatory comments

Football is not different to any other sport - it doesn’t have this protected status where fans can act how they like

A lot of good work has been done over the years by the sport to rid itself of the cancerous element that put a stain on the sport.

Instead of looking to find ways to justify it because it happened in the olden days how about condone it and that also includes using phrases like “victims”. Or maybe some just find it hard to call out their own fans when they cross the line
		
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Thank you for proving my point. Almost 100% bollocks. 👍


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This is the key thing. I'm in the same boat at this stage, Everton. Season is looking poor and scary but we only have to be better than 3 other teams. Bournemouth, Southampton, Forest and Everton I think are in most trouble, wolves, Leeds, West ham I think should have too much.

Getting to 10th isn't a discussion, either of us just need to better than 3 others. Nothing more this year, sadly.
		
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The one thing that stood out for me is how little seemed to have changed for most of the aforementioned clubs despite having a lot of their players at home for all or some of the WC. Yes they had some players away and have some injuries. For some clubs you'd have hoped they would have a mini pre-season and come out with some new plans/structure/options but very little change was discernible in the games I saw. It does feel like a lot of clubs main hopes is that there are so many bad sides down there we should be able to stay up. 

Will any clubs spend in January to try and survive? Wolves are likely to bring a few in for Lopetagui (sp?) but doesnt seem to be much news from many others down there.

Gun to head it would be Southampton Forest and Bournemouth on current evidence but everyone as far up as Leicester are definitely still in a dog fight and theres a chance a side above that could get dragged down too. No doubt in a couple of weeks my "3" will have changed again (Everton be back in there  ) 

Saints, Bournemouth and Wolves have changed managers recently, be a couple more at least before spring is upon us you'd think (Moyes, Lampard, Rogers?)


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## Swango1980 (Dec 28, 2022)

I'm currently quite content Utd bought that "Steady Eddie" Casemiro. You know, the one that wouldn't improve Utd, and really only achieved success due to his the players he played with at Real Madrid.

As it stands, he doesn't just improve Utd's midfield, but he is light years ahead of what they had in those positions before. Utd could have probably won last night with Ant and Dec as the centre back pairing, as Casemiro wouldn't let the ball get near them 

With a lot more security and composure in central midfield (with Eriksen as well), I think it gives huge confidence and freedom to the likes of Rashford. They can just concentrate on their job much more, while guys behind them make things tick.


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## Billysboots (Dec 28, 2022)

I have been an Old Trafford regular for years. I can say hand on heart, that I have never heard an orchestrated chant relating to death, serious illness, racism,    bigotry or homophobia. Not once. Sure, there’s the “Feed a scouser” which is trotted out every winter, but that genuinely is as bad as it gets.

What I hear far more of are lone individuals, invariably the worse for drink, who shout obscenities and occasionally overstep the mark. I can’t speak for other clubs but, at United, those individuals tend to be pretty swiftly dealt with by stewards.

I’m pretty sure none of us condone chants relating to incidents such as Hillsborough and Munich. Those chants, along with those who insist on using them, are as unwelcome as they are offensive. But there’s a reason the football authorities and law enforcers haven’t done more to combat them. Quite simply, it’s because they are nowhere near as common place as many seem to suggest. In addition, the reaction within the ground from the supporters of the same clubs as those perpetuating the unpleasantness is invariably such that the chanting is self policed by supporters.

It’s all about being proportionate, and rarely, if ever, do I hear commentators, pundits or sports reporters comment about offensive chanting. As unpleasant as some find it, it simply isn’t anywhere near bad enough to try and eradicate something which, ultimately, is part of the fabric of football match attendance in every country in the world.

So. There you have it. I’m not dismissing some of the more unpleasant chanting as banter. I don’t condone that sort of chanting. But it’s never going to stop me attending matches. It didn’t stop me taking my kids when they were youngsters. And I don’t sit there feeling disgusted. All, quite simply, because the vast majority of singing, chanting and so on is good natured and, perish the thought, actually quite funny.

I really have nothing to add. But please, Phil, if you’re going to address my comments, keep them in context.


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## theoneandonly (Dec 28, 2022)

How does such a massive troll get away with so much for so long 🤣🤣


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2022)

Are we putting Arsenal as serious title contenders now?
I keep expecting them to drop off,but they’re playing some cracking football.
Saka just keeps getting better.


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## Billysboots (Dec 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Are we putting Arsenal as serious title contenders now?
I keep expecting them to drop off,but they’re playing some cracking football.
Saka just keeps getting better.
		
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Whether they last the course remains to be seen but, regardless of where they finish, even the most fierce critic would have to agree Arteta has done a fabulous job.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Another thread bites the dust for a while. As soon as I saw there were 4 pages I hadn't read since about 9pm last night I knew who would be prolific in the "discussion"...

Note to self - skip to the last page in future 

Click to expand...

😂😂


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## GreiginFife (Dec 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Are we putting Arsenal as serious title contenders now?
I keep expecting them to drop off,but they’re playing some cracking football.
Saka just keeps getting better.
		
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I think any Arsenal fan's only fear should be if such a young team does still have improvement in them or that they have peaked already. 

You'd hope its the former with the trajectories of Saka, Odegaard and Martinelli.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Are we putting Arsenal as serious title contenders now?
I keep expecting them to drop off,but they’re playing some cracking football.
Saka just keeps getting better.
		
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Providing their central defenders stay fit, they have been let down by them in the past 

They look solid and play great football.
Don't see why not


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Whether they last the course remains to be seen but, regardless of where they finish, even the most fierce critic would have to agree Arteta has done a fabulous job.
		
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Arteta has done well but I think the overall squad isn’t strong enough to go toe to toe with City through the rest of the season - they have a good first 11 but depth will be tested through Feb/March 

City will imo win by a good 8 points , Arsenal should stay the race for a top 4 - the other two spots certainly up for grabs and again keeping players fit and bringing in new players will be key 

If we bring in a CM it’s going to help us out 

Utd look like they are looking for more players 

Arsenal also 

If I was a betting man I would go 

City 

Then any combination of Arsenal , Liverpool and Utd


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			I think any Arsenal fan's only fear should be if such a young team does still have improvement in them or that they have peaked already.

You'd hope its the former with the trajectories of Saka, Odegaard and Martinelli.
		
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No fear there is room for improvement, the fear is lack of depth outside 13 or 14 players who fit the arteta style and methods, keeping hold of the majority of the squad (saka, martinelli and saliba all need new contracts currently as do several of the younger players coming through) and adding a few more bodies that fit over the next year or so along with hopefully bringing a few more through from Hale End

Will we win the league this year, almost certainly not but were having some fun for now  We should qualify for the CL which at least brings a platform to continue building going forward. A large amount of the deadwood has gone and the wage bill has been cut accordingly, theyre now going to have to start increasing it again to keep the youngsters and attract a few more. the intent is clearly there with the Mudryk approach but think we are going to have to overpay to get that deal (and potentially others) done


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## Rlburnside (Dec 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Football is no longer a working man’s game , stopped being that a long time ago , the days of Alf Garnett no longer valid in a modern society , the days of working Mon to Friday and then letting the frustrations out on the terraces and saying whatever they want no longer exist

Fans can’t just chant whatever they want because they thinks it’s funny or banter - that’s not how it works anymore, we aren’t in the 70’s or 80’s or 90’s or even 00’s - what some think was acceptable back then isn’t acceptable now and it can’t be brushed off with comments like “faux outrage” or snowflake etc

Football fans can go to a game and enjoy the sport without the need to chant offensive chants - that doesn’t mean it’s sanitised or no swearing or no rivalry etc they just don’t cross the line

Chants about Racism , bigotry, poverty , deaths , serious illness , homophobic etc are not acceptable in the modern day and many many fans and clubs can watch their team without the need to chant about them. It’s not “passion” to chant these sort of things

There is a reason why not one single player has come out as gay whilst still playing top flight football - because they know those low IQ fans won’t be able to not chant derogatory comments

Football is not different to any other sport - it doesn’t have this protected status where fans can act how they like

A lot of good work has been done over the years by the sport to rid itself of the cancerous element that put a stain on the sport.

Instead of looking to find ways to justify it because it happened in the olden days how about condone it and that also includes using phrases like “victims”. Or maybe some just find it hard to call out their own fans when they cross the line
		
Click to expand...

Phil you come across to me as someone who doesn’t/hasn’t attended many games. 

I attended a Spurs v Arsenal game earlier this season first game I’ve been to in probably 25 years, I was in a pub garden crowded with Spurs fans and the songs  they chanted were much the same as when I used to attend games

Songs about rival clubs that some might be offended by but it took me back to good times attending matches. 

Take that away and you might as well give the whole game to FIFA who are already degrading the game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Phil you come across to me as someone who doesn’t/hasn’t attended many games.

I attended a Spurs v Arsenal game earlier this season first game I’ve been to in probably 25 years, I was in a pub garden crowded with Spurs fans and the songs  they chanted were much the same as when I used to attend games

Songs about rival clubs that some might be offended by but it took me back to good times attending matches.

Take that away and you might as well give the whole game to FIFA who are already degrading the game.
		
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I have attended plenty of games up and down the divisions. 

I think people are clearly taking what I’m saying about the chants a little beyond what I have stated 

Where any of the chants you heard - racist , homophobic, degrading , bringing up disasters where people have died - these are the chants that I’m referring too, there has been a rise of “rival fans” using Hillsborough chants towards Liverpool fans 

https://www.thetottenhamindependent...-rise-abhorrent-chants-hillsborough-disaster/

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/kids-in-tears-after-vile-25492858.amp

That’s the sort of “chants” that I’m referring to 

As you say “it took you back to good times” -  but not everything back then was “good” - the world has moved on , I have been to Liverpool matches where there has been no derogatory chants from either side 

Let’s be clear here im talking about “songs” that cross a line , songs that you are know are no longer acceptable.


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			The one thing that stood out for me is how little seemed to have changed for most of the aforementioned clubs despite having a lot of their players at home for all or some of the WC. Yes they had some players away and have some injuries. For some clubs you'd have hoped they would have a mini pre-season and come out with some new plans/structure/options but very little change was discernible in the games I saw. It does feel like a lot of clubs main hopes is that there are so many bad sides down there we should be able to stay up.

Will any clubs spend in January to try and survive? Wolves are likely to bring a few in for Lopetagui (sp?) but doesnt seem to be much news from many others down there.

Gun to head it would be Southampton Forest and Bournemouth on current evidence but everyone as far up as Leicester are definitely still in a dog fight and theres a chance a side above that could get dragged down too. No doubt in a couple of weeks my "3" will have changed again (Everton be back in there  )

Saints, Bournemouth and Wolves have changed managers recently, be a couple more at least before spring is upon us you'd think (Moyes, Lampard, Rogers?)
		
Click to expand...

If you watched Forest week in, week out, like I’ve had to all season 😅😅🤣, we most certainly have improved, but granted there’s still a long way to go.

Yes, we bought a small country in the summer, but as previously highlighted, it was out of necessity, not just because we were Willy waving about how much money we had at our disposal.

Aside from the 3 goals yesterday, since letting in 4 and 5 against leicester and arsenal, the defensive play has been addressed and we’ve been much better at the back overall. So I’m confident that Yesterday’s two gifted goals will be addressed and won’t be allowed to happen again.

What gives me hope is the continued improvement (albeit in baby steps), with a brand new team (essentially). We’re still not fully gelled and are still on a level with at least 3 other teams with ‘established’ squads

We’ve already bought in Scarpa who might end up being our Casemiro. Most assists in the Brazilian top division last season and he’s already played two friendlies and assisted two goals.

I think we’ll ship out a few that haven’t worked out since the summer as well as bring in an out-and-out striker as well as a CB, given Niakhate’s still not back training.

By no means a done deal but I’m still optimistic we can stay up.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Are we putting Arsenal as serious title contenders now?
I keep expecting them to drop off,but they’re playing some cracking football.
Saka just keeps getting better.
		
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Arsenal and Newcastle. Be dangerous to discount either.

Would be great for the game if either won and both stay top 4.


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Arsenal and Newcastle. Be dangerous to discount either.

Would be great for the game if either won and both stay top 4.
		
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Couldn’t agree more. 

As Fundy said, Arsenal’s depth (or lack thereof) is concerning. 

Eddie Howe seems to be building a very solid squad.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2022)

I think three of the top four will be Arsenal,  City and Newcastle. At the moment I think it will be in that order as well. Jesus being injured is massive, But he could well return when the squad needs him the most.
If those three do finish in the top four. One of Chelsea, Utd, Liverpool, spurs, etc will be happy. The rest will be gutted.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			If you watched Forest week in, week out, like I’ve had to all season 😅😅🤣, we most certainly have improved, but granted there’s still a long way to go.

Yes, we bought a small country in the summer, but as previously highlighted, it was out of necessity, not just because we were Willy waving about how much money we had at our disposal.

Aside from the 3 goals yesterday, since letting in 4 and 5 against leicester and arsenal, the defensive play has been addressed and we’ve been much better at the back overall. So I’m confident that Yesterday’s two gifted goals will be addressed and won’t be allowed to happen again.

What gives me hope is the continued improvement (albeit in baby steps), with a brand new team (essentially). We’re still not fully gelled and are still on a level with at least 3 other teams with ‘established’ squads

We’ve already bought in Scarpa who might end up being our Casemiro. Most assists in the Brazilian top division last season and he’s already played two friendlies and assisted two goals.

I think we’ll ship out a few that haven’t worked out since the summer as well as bring in an out-and-out striker as well as a CB, given Niakhate’s still not back training.

By no means a done deal but I’m still optimistic we can stay up.
		
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I get what youre saying and I know you were missing a few but I really fancied you'd have a go yesterday (especially against the back 4 United had out) but was massively disappointed, you were far better in your last game pre WC. I know you think their goals were gifted but they couldve got several more too

If youre going to stay up you need to find a way to get something away from home (starting with scoring some goals) and just didnt see anything last night that says you will. I hope Im wrong.........


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			I get what youre saying and I know you were missing a few but I really fancied you'd have a go yesterday (especially against the back 4 United had out) but was massively disappointed, you were far better in your last game pre WC. I know you think their goals were gifted but they couldve got several more too

If youre going to stay up you need to find a way to get something away from home (starting with scoring some goals) and just didnt see anything last night that says you will. I hope Im wrong.........
		
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Oh, I don’t disagree, we definitely needed to do more and go at them..strange that Taiwo was playing wide for a lot of the game. 

Hoping it’s first game back rust and we’ll find our groove. I also think having the goal rules out just before half time was a real blow (although we came out with purpose after the break); But we absolutely need to find some form away from home. Away at Southampton next week will be pivotal. Put in a performance there and it might be the turnaround we need.


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## Beezerk (Dec 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Arsenal and Newcastle. Be dangerous to discount either.

Would be great for the game if either won and both stay top 4.
		
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I’m prepared to eat my words but I can’t really see Newcastle staying in the top 4, I think they’ll maybe struggle with top 6.
Injury free and with momentum top 6, a couple of injuries and I can’t see them keeping up.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I’m prepared to eat my words but I can’t really see Newcastle staying in the top 4, I think they’ll maybe struggle with too 6.
Injury free and with momentum top 6, a couple of injuries and I can’t see them keeping up.
		
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What impressed me was Wilson was out this week and they used wood. Who isn't same level and they still looked good 

Got to think how often saint max is out aswell , they may not get top 4 but 6? Defo for me


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I’m prepared to eat my words but I can’t really see Newcastle staying in the top 4, I think they’ll maybe struggle with top 6.
Injury free and with momentum top 6, a couple of injuries and I can’t see them keeping up.
		
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It's an interesting one. Newcastle just seem to be so solid right now and are getting stronger each game. They now have a little bit of depth, not huge but enough. They don't let many goals in, they can score from all over, even when Wilson is out. They also won't have the distraction of European football.

If they add a smart buy or loan in January then I can genuinely see them hanging in there.

@pauljames87 I think the impressive thing now that San Max often doesn't start now when fit. They don't need him. That's how far they have come on.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2022)

I think with Newcastle the similarity to us is the drop off in quality when covering a few of their key players. Whilst they have some cover Im thinking especially Trippier, Guimares and Almiron maybe Linton too would be harder to cover than some others


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			I think with Newcastle the similarity to us is the drop off in quality when covering a few of their key players. Whilst they have some cover Im thinking especially Trippier, Guimares and Almiron maybe Linton too would be harder to cover than some others
		
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I would say Guimares is the big one. He is a class above and really does keep them ticking over. The others have cover, although I agree Trippier would also be a big miss for everything he brings to the team.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2022)

I think it is fair to say that Grealish has set my tourettes off tonight. 🤬


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2022)

So unselfish from Grealish there. Had a couple of looks to see where Haaland was and then put it on a plate for him.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2022)

Rodri has taken over Fernandinho's mantle of not being booked.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Rodri has taken over Fernandinho's mantle of not being booked.
		
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The ref certainly seems to be letting a lot of challenges go that could/should be yellow cards, from both sides. There have been a couple that certainly looked like they should've been given as a yellow. Has there been a recent directive to let more go as it certainly seemed to be the case in the World Cup as well?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2022)

Then he goes and books the young kid on the pitch 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2022)

The ref's finally remembered that he has cards in his pocket, and that one was a lot less obvious than some that have been let go previously. Expect to see another 6 or 7 cards at least in the next half an hour now the first one has been given.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			The ref certainly seems to be letting a lot of challenges go that could/should be yellow cards, from both sides. There have been a couple that certainly looked like they should've been given as a yellow. Has there been a recent directive to let more go as it certainly seemed to be the case in the World Cup as well?
		
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No just inept refereeing.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			The ref's finally remembered that he has cards in his pocket, and that one was a lot less obvious than some that have been let go previously. Expect to see another 6 or 7 cards at least in the next half an hour now the first one has been given.
		
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Those cards are the easiest to give.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2022)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think this young lad Haaland could be a decent player. Don't know if anyone has seen much of him but I think he might score a lot of goals this season and might be the buy of the season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

City not playing that well yet 3 nil up , they will imo walk the league

Haaland is the signing of the season 

And that should be another yellow for Rodri


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 28, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think this young lad Haaland could be a decent player. Don't know if anyone has seen much of him but I think he might score a lot of goals this season and might be the buy of the season.
		
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Agree there Colch. You must be watching the same stream as I am.
At half time I had Sky Sports News on and for Haaland’s first goal it was at least 4 minutes before it was on TV


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## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2022)

Number 29 got a touch of the short man syndrome much?


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2022)

How much difference do people think it would have made to the league table if Haaland had gone to Chelsea/Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal instead on Man City? 

He does seem to be a once in a generation player that makes a massive difference wherever he plays. As a neutral I kind of want to see him stay at City for as long as possible to see him smash all the goal scoring records but at the same time I'd like to see him win the CL for City and then move on to Real Madrid just to make the PL more of an even contest. I can't see anyone being able to compete with City over a full league season as long as Haaland is there and banging in goals for fun.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2022)

He's missed one. That Haaland lad is rubbish.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			How much difference do people think it would have made to the league table if Haaland had gone to Chelsea/Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal instead on Man City?

He does seem to be a once in a generation player that makes a massive difference wherever he plays. As a neutral I kind of want to see him stay at City for as long as possible to see him smash all the goal scoring records but at the same time I'd like to see him win the CL for City and then move on to Real Madrid just to make the PL more of an even contest. I can't see anyone being able to compete with City over a full league season as long as Haaland is there and banging in goals for fun.
		
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He is just a machine , he appears to have the lot , pace, strength , natural ability to finish - City will put chances on a plate for him and he will prob end up missing more than he scores but will end up getting over 40 league goals with ease. 

He prob would have had the same impact at Liverpool with the chances the fullbacks create , would certainly be the missing ingredient at Chelsea.

The key for City is will he be the player to get them the trophy they really want - the CL 

Thankfully for the rest of the Prem I don’t think it will be long before he moves on


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			No just inept refereeing.
		
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Unlike the ref in the PSG game whos given Neymar a 2nd yellow for diving and sent him packing


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			Unlike the ref in the PSG game whos given Neymar a 2nd yellow for diving and sent him packing 

Click to expand...

and Mbappe still wins it with the last kick of the game lol


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Shut up Phil they've dominated.

Stop being a prick
		
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This as proper crushed Phil 😂😂
going to take some proper “likes” now to get back in the circle 😂


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is just a machine , he appears to have the lot , pace, strength , natural ability to finish - City will put chances on a plate for him and he will prob end up missing more than he scores but will end up getting over 40 league goals with ease.

He prob would have had the same impact at Liverpool with the chances the fullbacks create , would certainly be the missing ingredient at Chelsea.

The key for City is will he be the player to get them the trophy they really want - the CL

*Thankfully for the rest of the Prem I don’t think it will be long before he moves on*

Click to expand...

This feels like wishful thinking to me, based on his old man and agents wanting lots of signing on fees, think he might stay at City and win hatfuls of trophies for fun for a while


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			and Mbappe still wins it with the last kick of the game lol
		
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Thank god.
I backed the price boost which included psg


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			This feels like wishful thinking to me, based on his old man and agents wanting lots of signing on fees, think he might stay at City and win hatfuls of trophies for fun for a while
		
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It was something his dad said before the World Cup in regards his son wanting to win trophies in all 5 of the top leagues - along the lines of 3 years here , couple in Spain , then Italy , then France and then finish in Germany

Also suspect there will be release clauses in his contracts as he goes around the clubs

Edit - found it 

https://www.90min.com/posts/erling-...-across-europe-s-top-leagues-01ge6q0q4v12/amp


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is just a machine , he appears to have the lot , pace, strength , natural ability to finish - City will put chances on a plate for him and he will prob end up missing more than he scores but will end up getting over 40 league goals with ease.

He prob would have had the same impact at Liverpool with the chances the fullbacks create , would certainly be the missing ingredient at Chelsea.

The key for City is will he be the player to get them the trophy they really want - the CL

*Thankfully for the rest of the Prem I don’t think it will be long before he moves on*

Click to expand...

Go on then Phil,where’s he moving to?🙄

Serious question,if he’s a Liverpool player are you saying he’s moving on?

Pretty sure you said Suarez,Coutinho,Torres aren’t going nowhere.
Stick to playing football manager on social media 😂😂


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was something his dad said before the World Cup in regards his son wanting to win trophies in all 5 of the top leagues - along the lines of 3 years here , couple in Spain , then Italy , then France and then finish in Germany

Also suspect there will be release clauses in his contracts as he goes around the clubs
		
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as i said, based on the rumour they want to collect multiple signing on fees, we'll see, expect City just keep paying them more lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			as i said, based on the rumour they want to collect multiple signing on fees, we'll see, expect City just keep paying them more lol
		
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It was mainly just based on this 🤷‍♂️

https://footballexpress.co.uk/erling-haalands-wish-to-play-in-all-leagues/


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2022)

I don't think that there can be much doubt that Haaland is going to break the PL goal scoring record this season. Already on 20 goals after 14 games so just 24 games left for him to score another 15 goals to break the record. That seems like a no brainer. He's probably at the only club that can afford to keep him in the PL in terms of the increasing wages that will be required to keep him but it depends on what he wants from his career. If any club in the world had to choose just one player that they would want to sign given the opportunity is there any other player that would come close to Haaland at the minute?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't think that there can be much doubt that Haaland is going to break the PL goal scoring record this season. Already on 20 goals after 14 games so just 24 games left for him to score another 15 goals to break the record. That seems like a no brainer. He's probably at the only club that can afford to keep him in the PL in terms of the increasing wages that will be required to keep him but it depends on what he wants from his career. If any club in the world had to choose just one player that they would want to sign given the opportunity is there any other player that would come close to Haaland at the minute?
		
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Guess the only other player that comes close is Mbappe - his record at the moment is just as phenomenal plus he has the added bonus of being able to create and play out wide as well

Tough choice between the two


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was mainly just based on this 🤷‍♂️

https://footballexpress.co.uk/erling-haalands-wish-to-play-in-all-leagues/

Click to expand...

Seriously 🤷‍♂️😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## nickjdavis (Dec 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I’m prepared to eat my words but I can’t really see Newcastle staying in the top 4, I think they’ll maybe struggle with top 6.
Injury free and with momentum top 6, a couple of injuries and I can’t see them keeping up.
		
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To be honest.....7th place would be a huge success in the context of where we were for much of last season....far over-achieving compared to what most Toon fans would have expected at the beginning of the season (which is totally different to what most clueless outsiders were telling the world that Newcastle fans were expecting).

7th place may seem disappointing compared to where we are in the table now, but sometimes you can progress too quickly (remember Leeds....they shot for the stars and fell short and it cost them for many years). Europa Conference league football might be a better fit in season 2 of the rebuilding project than Champions League football.

However...its not just the 16 games of this season that we've been playing well....it was the latter half of last season as well (12 wins, 2 draws from the last 19 games of last season)....so in reality we've kept this form up already for nearly an entire season.

So far there has been nothing to suggest that we cant continue to challenge for the top 4...yes there will be games that are lost...not only to the teams around us (mind you...we've already picked up 8 points in 5 games against the so called big 6) but also to teams lower down the table who are naturally fighting for their own positions.

As Greavsie used to say....footballs a funny old game...no predicting what might happen....could end up mid table obscurity!!!


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Guess the only other player that comes close is Mbappe - his record at the moment is just as phenomenal plus he has the added bonus of being able to create and play out wide as well

Tough choice between the two
		
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Can't believe that I completely forgot about Mbappe - doh! But even so I still think that if I had to make the choice I go for Haaland. Bringing in one player that almost guarantees 40+ goals a season makes an unbelievable difference to the season. For a mid-table club it immediately propels them into challenging for the CL places and for a title chasing squad it almost certainly makes the difference between being almost there and winning the league. I appreciate that the service he gets at a top club is so much better but even if he was at Wolves, Southampton or Everton they would almost certainly be 10 or 12 points better off just because of how good he is.


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 28, 2022)

Good match week for Forest with only Wolves picking up points of the teams around us. Need to try and get something against Chelsea on NYD now.  🙏🏻🙏🏻


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can't believe that I completely forgot about Mbappe - doh! But even so I still think that if I had to make the choice I go for Haaland. Bringing in one player that almost guarantees 40+ goals a season makes an unbelievable difference to the season. For a mid-table club it immediately propels them into challenging for the CL places and for a title chasing squad it almost certainly makes the difference between being almost there and winning the league. I appreciate that the service he gets at a top club is so much better but even if he was at Wolves, Southampton or Everton they would almost certainly be 10 or 12 points better off just because of how good he is.
		
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Don’t think either would be the wrong choice - guess it would boil down to the style of play or the current squad your team have - Mbappe so far has 190 goals in 220 games for PSG - I think he would be just behind Haaland in terms of goals scored but would create a bit more. Given the choice I would just about go for Mbappe purely because I prefer him as a player


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2022)

That French league is really tough 😃
Anyone who thought last night Casimero was signing of the season can join the Hockey club.
Haaland is by miles the best signing.
Watching De Bruyne is poetry.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			That French league is really tough 😃
Anyone who thought last night Casimero was signing of the season can join the Hockey club.
Haaland is by miles the best signing.
Watching De Bruyne is poetry.
		
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Not disagreeing.
But Haaland was an obvious fit for City.
Casimero not so much,but he’s been class


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 28, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			That French league is really tough 😃
Anyone who thought last night Casimero was signing of the season can join the Hockey club.
Haaland is by miles the best signing.
Watching De Bruyne is poetry.
		
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Casemiro makes United a much better team. 

Haaland is obviously ridiculous (and De Bruyne is equally as ridiculous) but was a bit of a luxury signing for City. They’re hardly a bad team without him. 

Casemiro is pulling the strings at United.


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## Junior (Dec 29, 2022)

Lots of love for Casemiro and Haaland and rightly so.  

I can only comment on Utd, but as good as Casemiro is,  id say Eriksen has had more of an impact.  The pair of them in midfield are light years ahead of McFred.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 29, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			That French league is really tough 😃
Anyone who thought last night Casimero was signing of the season can join the Hockey club.
Haaland is by miles the best signing.
Watching De Bruyne is poetry.
		
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Did anyone say Casemiro was signing off the season? I guess it depends on your definition of what that means.

Is he going to win Premier League Player of the Year? No. Haaland probably is, so in that sense Haaland is the best player signed. 

But, as Aztecs said, it is very probably Casemiro makes a much better positive difference to United, significantly improving them. Haaland improves City, but relatively by the same amount? I reckon they'd still be unbelievable without him. 

Arsenal fans might have wanted Jesus in the list before Xmas? He might not have scored loads, but certainly helped very much in their system. 

One think I am happy to concede, Player of the Season will almost certainly not be Darwin Nunez.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I think it is fair to say that Grealish has set my tourettes off tonight. 🤬
		
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I really find him frustrating. Always the same thing, receives the ball and runs away from goal or across the pitch trying to get a free kick. Never ever faces the defender up and goes at him or, it seems, runs behind. Kevin did the latter a couple of times so it was clearly an option. So pleased he gave Haaland a tap in as I never thought he'd beat the keeper. I never get that buzz of excitement or anticipation when he gets the ball.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I really find him frustrating. Always the same thing, receives the ball and runs away from goal or across the pitch trying to get a free kick. Never ever faces the defender up and goes at him or, it seems, runs behind. Kevin did the latter a couple of times so it was clearly an option. So pleased he gave Haaland a tap in as I never thought he'd beat the keeper. I never get that buzz of excitement or anticipation when he gets the ball.
		
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That is the type of player he is though. He isn't quick, and I don't think he has a decent burst of pace. DeBruyne is surprisingly quick when he stretches his legs.

I'm not sure Grealish tries to win fouls, he is just good at timing it so he nicks ball before tackle comes in.

He was frustrating early on, no doubt, as he missed a couple of sitters. And, some would prefer a strong, quick direct player out on the wing. But, he is always involved and he offers a different threat to the opponents. I'm sure Pep.is delighted to.have him, and have different options to try from the start, or from the bench.


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## AmandaJR (Dec 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That is the type of player he is though. He isn't quick, and I don't think he has a decent burst of pace. DeBruyne is surprisingly quick when he stretches his legs.

I'm not sure Grealish tries to win fouls, he is just good at timing it so he nicks ball before tackle comes in.

He was frustrating early on, no doubt, as he missed a couple of sitters. And, some would prefer a strong, quick direct player out on the wing. But, he is always involved and he offers a different threat to the opponents. I'm sure Pep.is delighted to.have him, and have different options to try from the start, or from the bench.
		
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I think the price tag will always hang over his head as he doesn't look £100m of player...

He's actually one of very few I feel plays better for England so maybe some of it is what Pep wants him to do. I'd rather see Foden who offers much more imo.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That is the type of player he is though. He isn't quick, and I don't think he has a decent burst of pace. DeBruyne is surprisingly quick when he stretches his legs.

*I'm not sure Grealish tries to win fouls, he is just good at timing it so he nicks ball before tackle comes in*.

He was frustrating early on, no doubt, as he missed a couple of sitters. And, some would prefer a strong, quick direct player out on the wing. But, he is always involved and he offers a different threat to the opponents. I'm sure Pep.is delighted to.have him, and have different options to try from the start, or from the bench.
		
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I mentioned exactly the same thing to my lad last night. Playing Leeds was always going to be difficult with them playing five at the back. Most of the time he was driven back but there is a reason that his highest goals in a season is 8. his finishing is atrocious. Gone are the days of Stirling and Sane bombing down the wing.

If you look at the tap in he gave Haaland, it was under-hit and Haaland had to adjust his “ tap in”.

Re Leeds, I think there survival depends on which Leeds turns up on the day. The first half was atrocious. The second half was a lot better. I think the relegation is going down to 5 or 6 teams and trying to be better than the worst 3. Ave a feeling a “ big name” team could be playing championship football next year.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Did anyone say Casemiro was signing off the season? I guess it depends on your definition of what that means.

Is he going to win Premier League Player of the Year? No. Haaland probably is, so in that sense Haaland is the best player signed.

But, as Aztecs said, it is very probably Casemiro makes a much better positive difference to United, significantly improving them. Haaland improves City, but relatively by the same amount? I reckon they'd still be unbelievable without him.

Arsenal fans might have wanted Jesus in the list before Xmas? He might not have scored loads, but certainly helped very much in their system.

*One think I am happy to concede, Player of the Season will almost certainly not be Darwin Nunez.*

Click to expand...

I think Nunez is a quality signing and he will get better in the prem, but after the Community shield when Nunez played well and Haaland was very iffy. The OOT Comparisons Between the two was laughable.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I think the price tag will always hang over his head as he doesn't look £100m of player...

He's actually one of very few I feel plays better for England so maybe some of it is what Pep wants him to do. I'd rather see Foden who offers much more imo.
		
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I support Man Utd, so I've long stopped comparing a player to their price tag, and judged them on what they give, or do not, to the team.

Grealish was never going to he better than DeBruyne, and I never thought he would transform City. Just another great option to have. Paying £100million for a squad player to be rotated in and out is a lot, yes. But, City could have paid £30-50 million for someone else, probably with a much bigger risk they could be a huge flop (not getting is side at all, and leaving on a free a few years later). 

Players more expensive than Grealish have been Neymar, Mbappe, Felix, Coutinho and Griezman. The 2 at PSG have been decent (although, it is PSG in French league), the others not so much (not sure about Felix to be fair, don't watch Spanish footy). Players just below him are Lukaku, Dembele and Pogba. Hazard a few more places down. 

If you took all players to sign for over £80-90 million, Grealish is possibly doing better than most.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I support Man Utd, so I've long stopped comparing a player to their price tag, and judged them on what they give, or do not, to the team.

Grealish was never going to he better than DeBruyne, and I never thought he would transform City. Just another great option to have. Paying £100million for a squad player to be rotated in and out is a lot, yes. But, City could have paid £30-50 million for someone else, probably with a much bigger risk they could be a huge flop (not getting is side at all, and leaving on a free a few years later).

Players more expensive than Grealish have been Neymar, Mbappe, Felix, Coutinho and Griezman. The 2 at PSG have been decent (although, it is PSG in French league), the others not so much (not sure about Felix to be fair, don't watch Spanish footy). Players just below him are Lukaku, Dembele and Pogba. Hazard a few more places down.

If you took all players to sign for over £80-90 million, Grealish is possibly doing better than most.
		
Click to expand...


You can tell what a hit Felix has been at Athletico that he is being hawked to every premier league club if they will pay a loan fee and his wages. That said I think hes a decent player, just at the wrong club with a ridiculous price tag on him

Its kind of scary how many 50m+ transfers dont work out (yes im looking at you Pepe lol)


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## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2022)

Felix is a good player in the wrong team. Atletico are a dirty team. Asking felix to play that style ain’t gonna happen.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Felix is a good player in the wrong team. Atletico are a dirty team. Asking felix to play that style ain’t gonna happen.
		
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Haarland manages ok in a dirty team!


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## pokerjoke (Dec 29, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Casemiro makes United a much better team.

Haaland is obviously ridiculous (and De Bruyne is equally as ridiculous) but was a bit of a luxury signing for City. They’re hardly a bad team without him.

Casemiro is pulling the strings at United.
		
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I certainly agree he makes us a more solid team,however we are starting to look a better team all round.
Imo he doesn’t pull the strings,I would say Erikson and Bruno do that more.


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## Swango1980 (Dec 29, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I certainly agree he makes us a more solid team,however we are starting to look a better team all round.
Imo he doesn’t pull the strings,I would say Erikson and Bruno do that more.
		
Click to expand...

Eriksen and Bruno are the creative side. But, they can only do as well because Casemiro does what he does. He does the dirty work (very gracefully I'll add), and plays the right pass. If it wasn't someone doing as well as he did, you'd probably find Bruno and Eriksen would have to spend more time chasing shadows, and not getting the ball as much, or as much in dangerous areas, as they can now. 

It is interesting to see how one player, in a particular position, can improve many around them. Not by leadership skills, but just by taking a bigger responsibility in one area of the pitch, and allowing others to focus more in their strong areas.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Eriksen and Bruno are the creative side. But, they can only do as well because Casemiro does what he does. He does the dirty work (very gracefully I'll add), and plays the right pass. If it wasn't someone doing as well as he did, you'd probably find Bruno and Eriksen would have to spend more time chasing shadows, and not getting the ball as much, or as much in dangerous areas, as they can now.

It is interesting to see how one player, in a particular position, can improve many around them. Not by leadership skills, but just by taking a bigger responsibility in one area of the pitch, and allowing others to focus more in their strong areas.
		
Click to expand...

Im not disagreeing with anything you write.
I was responding to Axtecs
He doesn’t pull the strings,simple as.
If he does the dirty work,that’s not the strings,is it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2022)

Looks like loads of rumours floating around 

Chelsea seem to be the one willing to pay Fernandez release clause of £110mil

Liverpool looking to bring in Caicedo 

Arsenal getting close to Mudryk 

City looking at Leao

Newcastle at Tielemans


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608217642720178178
😂😂


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## AmandaJR (Dec 29, 2022)

I saw that at the time. He looked mortified. Not sure who it hit!


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I saw that at the time. He looked mortified. Not sure who it hit!
		
Click to expand...

😂😂 hands on head


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## Baldy Bouncer (Dec 29, 2022)

Stay classy Pep


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## Beezerk (Dec 29, 2022)

Someone in the bar just mentioned Pele has died, can’t find anything on the main news sites.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Someone in the bar just mentioned Pele has died, can’t find anything on the main news sites.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly looks to be true.
RIP


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## Beezerk (Dec 29, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sadly looks to be true.
RIP
		
Click to expand...

Proper proper legend.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608538710026457088
legend - RIP


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## Slime (Dec 29, 2022)

One of the few who can really be regarded as a true, world class legend.

Edson Arantes do Nascimento, RIP


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## SteveW86 (Dec 29, 2022)

The championship is proving itself to be an incredibly tight league again. Sunderland up to 4th, but only 10 points clear of the relegation zone.


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## fundy (Dec 29, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			The championship is proving itself to be an incredibly tight league again. Sunderland up to 4th, but only 10 points clear of the relegation zone.
		
Click to expand...

Top 2 both look a good deal better than the rest of the league, both made hard work of things tonight though


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## Fromtherough (Dec 29, 2022)

Up the Boro. This league is madness though.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 30, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I support Man Utd, so I've long stopped comparing a player to their price tag, and judged them on what they give, or do not, to the team.

Grealish was never going to he better than DeBruyne, and I never thought he would transform City. Just another great option to have. Paying £100million for a squad player to be rotated in and out is a lot, yes. But, City could have paid £30-50 million for someone else, probably with a much bigger risk they could be a huge flop (not getting is side at all, and leaving on a free a few years later).

Players more expensive than Grealish have been Neymar, Mbappe, Felix, Coutinho and Griezman. The 2 at PSG have been decent (although, it is PSG in French league), the others not so much (not sure about Felix to be fair, don't watch Spanish footy). Players just below him are Lukaku, Dembele and Pogba. Hazard a few more places down.

If you took all players to sign for over £80-90 million, Grealish is possibly doing better than most.
		
Click to expand...

To continue this discussion - 

Pep has definitely changed Grealish’s playing style. He absolutely does have a good turn of pace and can do a man - but just doesn’t these days. It’s so frustrating to watch him in the city team, personally feel like he’s held back playing pep’s football. The jack I watched for years at Villa would work his way through 2/3 players before laying the ball off, now he just plays the system. 

Not saying he doesn’t suit the system or have the ability for city, but I think other teams would have got more out of Grealish in their teams than city have so far. 

One thing he has never been is a goal scorer. He’s had a few bangers but his goal scoring instincts aren’t great. Pep managed to sort that with Sterling though and Jack will have about 4 years left on his contract so plenty of time to come good on that front yet.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

Really enjoy the interviews with the managers on the side of the pitch

I know he rubs people up the wrong way but always think Klopp gives a great enthusiastic interview and just seems to love the game ( Pep does the the same )


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608902921613107201


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608893250143748099
Apparently getting paid over £100mil per season 

Staggering


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2022)

Some interesting changes to the West Ham side tonight, looks far better on paper


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really enjoy the interviews with the managers on the side of the pitch

I know he rubs people up the wrong way but always think Klopp gives a great enthusiastic interview and just seems to love the game ( Pep does the the same )


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608902921613107201

Click to expand...

Klopp is all smiles and gives “a good interview” when things are going well.
Not so much when he starts with the excuses when things not going so well


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608898950123094021
Hope it’s not too serious and gets well soon


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 30, 2022)

Jamie Carragher claiming that the Leicester defender should've been booked for a challenge on Harvey Elliot where the replay clearly showed that there was no contact and Elliot dived. Absolute joke.


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Jamie Carragher claiming that the Leicester defender should've been booked for a challenge on Harvey Elliot where the replay clearly showed that there was no contact and Elliot dived. Absolute joke.
		
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Not only biased when working on Liverpool games, but his voice sounds as though he is suffering with even worse constipation than normal.


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Some interesting changes to the West Ham side tonight, looks far better on paper
		
Click to expand...


just on paper it seems  annoyed was gonna back brentford before seeing the teams


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Jamie Carragher claiming that the Leicester defender should've been booked for a challenge on Harvey Elliot where the replay clearly showed that there was no contact and Elliot dived. Absolute joke.
		
Click to expand...

Not seen the replay but looked a clear trip and if the ref has blown up so quickly after his other foul I’m surprised he didn’t book him , same with Robertson there - looked a clear booking


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not seen the replay but looked a clear trip and if the ref has blown up so quickly after his other foul I’m surprised he didn’t book him , same with Robertson there - looked a clear booking
		
Click to expand...

It might have looked like a clear trip but the replay showed that there was no contact. The defender completely missed Elliot who decided to dive. I'm surprised that the ref didn't book the defender having given the foul but the correct decision would've been a free kick to Leicester and a yellow card to Elliot for diving.


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 30, 2022)

Fromtherough said:



			Up the Boro. This league is madness though.
		
Click to expand...

I miss and don’t miss it in equal measure 😂


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## Fade and Die (Dec 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			just on paper it seems  annoyed was gonna back brentford before seeing the teams
		
Click to expand...

Benrahma has been excellent. Rice ok

The rest, could all be sold at no bloody loss

(Paqueta must be somebody's idea of a joke?)


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 30, 2022)

in other news, can’t ever count on Liverpool to do you a favour. 😡

They are absolutely abysmal this season.


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2022)

Wout Faes looking good for a hat trick


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Benrahma has been excellent. Rice ok

The rest, could all be sold at no bloody loss

(Paqueta must be somebody's idea of a joke?)
		
Click to expand...

Moyes got 45 mins to save his job or do they persevere with him?

Paqueta looked fine in a golden coloured shirt


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## pauljames87 (Dec 30, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Benrahma has been excellent. Rice ok

The rest, could all be sold at no bloody loss

(Paqueta must be somebody's idea of a joke?)
		
Click to expand...

Paquata is class. Being used incorrectly 

We need to line up correctly 

--------------areola 

Kehrer zouma aguard Emerson 

-----------rice paquata

Bowen -----fornals -- benny 

------------ scamacca  

Rice needs to be told hold.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

Well what a mental first half 😂

Faes on a hat trick


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## Fade and Die (Dec 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Paquata is class. Being used incorrectly

We need to line up correctly

--------------areola

Kehrer zouma aguard Emerson

-----------rice paquata

Bowen -----fornals -- benny

------------ scamacca 

Rice needs to be told hold.
		
Click to expand...

Who picked the team?..... (I knew we would eventually agree on Mcdullard)😆


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## pauljames87 (Dec 30, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Who picked the team?..... (I knew we would eventually agree on Mcdullard)😆
		
Click to expand...

respectfully disagree

moyes got us out of relegation before when he came in then should have stayed

he proceeded to get us 2 of the best years in our history and an european semi final.

we have had a massive overhaul of the playing staff, and new players take time to get up to speed.

we also lost his main signing aguard to injury before the season started and has played what once in the league thus far? him and zouma have they even played together? they are our best cbs.

moyes has history of this.. the season before everton finished 4th they had a rough season. it happens.

I believe he deserves to see out his contract in 2024.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 30, 2022)

Another massive dive from a Liverpool player, this time Thiago, and the ref bought it again. Carragher suggests that Thiago was "clever" to win the free kick. No he wasn't, he was cheating. Getting so fed up with ex-footballers trying to justify diving/cheating. They should be calling it out as the cheating that it is no matter which team the cheat is playing for.


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2022)

In other news, I see Ronaldo has achieved one of the primary objectives he had for leaving United in signing for a top club playing Champion’s League football.

Or not.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			respectfully disagree

moyes got us out of relegation before when he came in then should have stayed

he proceeded to get us 2 of the best years in our history and an european semi final.

we have had a massive overhaul of the playing staff, and new players take time to get up to speed.

we also lost his main signing aguard to injury before the season started and has played what once in the league thus far? him and zouma have they even played together? they are our best cbs.

moyes has history of this.. the season before everton finished 4th they had a rough season. it happens.

I believe he deserves to see out his contract in 2024.
		
Click to expand...

He had credit in the bank from many supporters including myself after our poor start to season. As you say he had earned it due to the past 2 years.

The credit has run out now, 10 defeats in 16 games is relegation fodder. He must be sacked now before further damage is done.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			In other news, I see Ronaldo has achieved one of the primary objectives he had for leaving United in signing for a top club playing Champion’s League football.

Or not.
		
Click to expand...

wonder if it’s the €200mil a year that persuaded him 🤔


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			wonder if it’s the €200mil a year that persuaded him 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Possibly 😂.

Just when I thought he couldn’t sink any further in my estimation, too. A sad, greedy end to an otherwise stellar career.


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2022)

Surely time for Henderson to take the lad Nunez down the brothel for a night out......................


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			He had credit in the bank from many supporters including myself after our poor start to season. As you say he had earned it due to the past 2 years.

The credit has run out now, 10 defeats in 16 games is relegation fodder. He must be sacked now before further damage is done.
		
Click to expand...

Didn’t you finish the last two seasons 6th and 7th and now you want him sacked


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Surely time for Henderson to take the lad Nunez down the brothel for a night out......................
		
Click to expand...

He really is Andy Carroll Mk II, isn’t he?


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 30, 2022)

Does anyone know if Nunez has ever finished his dinner? Watching him in the last few games I'm guessing that's about the only thing he's got any chance of finishing.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didn’t you finish the last two seasons 6th and 7th and now you want him sacked
		
Click to expand...

As I said, he had credit in the bank, now we are practically in free fall. He needs to go now as we are in a 4 way scrap for relegation. When Everton sack Fat Frank they will pull themselves clear. We need to act now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			He really is Andy Carroll Mk II, isn’t he?
		
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Not really 

He is a young lad - his pace is superb and is causing issues for opponents at the moment and is creating chances and assists. A lot of potential there for him.


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not really

He is a young lad - his pace is superb and is causing issues for opponents at the moment and is creating chances and assists. A lot of potential there for him.

View attachment 45751

Click to expand...

Allow me my moment of fun, Phil 😉


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2022)

I have to say, having seen just how diabolically poor Leicester were against Newcastle the other day, I expected them to get royally thumped this evening.

I can’t see Liverpool making top four on this showing. Distinctly average.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 30, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			He really is Andy Carroll Mk II, isn’t he?
		
Click to expand...

I think you're giving him too much credit. I'm thinking he's more an Ali Dia Mk II. Who's cousin do we think Nunez could be?


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## fundy (Dec 30, 2022)

get up Henderson lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

Ugly scrappy game - but 3 points will do nicely


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## GG26 (Dec 30, 2022)

In which alternative universe did Carragher give TAA man of the match?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

GG26 said:



			In which alternative universe did Carragher give TAA man of the match?
		
Click to expand...

Should have been Thiago but seems he got it because of his defensive work for a change


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## GG26 (Dec 30, 2022)

Thiago I could understand, but for me it was Dewsbury-Hall.


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2022)

Surely Faes was man of the match. Without his brace Liverpool would have drawn a blank.

😇


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## pokerjoke (Dec 30, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Possibly 😂.

Just when I thought he couldn’t sink any further in my estimation, too. A sad, greedy end to an otherwise stellar career.
		
Click to expand...

Many many more players before Ronaldo have gone to weaker leagues to chase money,some still in their prime.
Ronaldo as you say has a stellar career and someone has offered him stupid money,he doesn’t need it but hard to turn down all the same.
He’s done everything in the game.
He’s an icon the world over and one of the most recognised faces on the planet.
He’s probably given more to charity than we can imagine.
For me he’s not someone I’m willing to slate.
You don’t get to where he’s got to in life without serious sacrifices,he deserves all he gets.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Possibly 😂.

Just when I thought he couldn’t sink any further in my estimation, too. A sad, greedy end to an otherwise stellar career.
		
Click to expand...

There is a video of him going around saying that we would only finish at a top club in a top league and wouldn’t entertain Dubai , Qatar etc but I guess the huge sums of money will change that thinking - he now gets to be a big fish in a small pond and earn a lot of money for prob little effort


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2022)

GG26 said:



			Thiago I could understand, but for me it was Dewsbury-Hall.
		
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He played very well in the first half - certainly good running with the ball through the middle


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Many many more players before Ronaldo have gone to weaker leagues to chase money,some still in their prime.
Ronaldo as you say has a stellar career and someone has offered him stupid money,he doesn’t need it but hard to turn down all the same.
He’s done everything in the game.
He’s an icon the world over and one of the most recognised faces on the planet.
He’s probably given more to charity than we can imagine.
For me he’s not someone I’m willing to slate.
You don’t get to where he’s got to in life without serious sacrifices,he deserves all he gets.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t get me wrong. I’m 95% a huge Ronaldo fan, for many of the reasons you cite. But the last few months have left a very, very sour taste in the mouth.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 30, 2022)

Imagine at the end of your career you accept a £100m per year contract.
No way would I do that,nope not a chance.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 30, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Imagine at the end of your career you accept a £100m per year contract.
No way would I do that,nope not a chance.
		
Click to expand...

Surely your decision would be influenced by how your career has gone to that point and where the money is coming from. If you're worth north of £1 billion then you have the choice to be a bit more choosy about it than if you're struggling to put food in your family's mouths. There's been lots of, in my opinion quite justified, criticism of multi millionaire golfers taking the Saudi dollars in LIV golf and there should be equal amounts of criticism for Ronaldo for doing the same. He could've gone to America and played for nothing and it wouldn't have affected his lifestyle at all. He could've retired and not affected his lifestyle. But instead he's chosen to accept an obscene amount of money to go to Saudi Arabia and effectively retire and help with sportswashing that country's reputation.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Surely your decision would be influenced by how your career has gone to that point and where the money is coming from. If you're worth north of £1 billion then you have the choice to be a bit more choosy about it than if you're struggling to put food in your family's mouths. There's been lots of, in my opinion quite justified, criticism of multi millionaire golfers taking the Saudi dollars in LIV golf and there should be equal amounts of criticism for Ronaldo for doing the same. He could've gone to America and played for nothing and it wouldn't have affected his lifestyle at all. He could've retired and not affected his lifestyle. But instead he's chosen to accept an obscene amount of money to go to Saudi Arabia and effectively retire and help with sportswashing that country's reputation.
		
Click to expand...


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## Billysboots (Dec 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Surely your decision would be influenced by how your career has gone to that point and where the money is coming from. If you're worth north of £1 billion then you have the choice to be a bit more choosy about it than if you're struggling to put food in your family's mouths. There's been lots of, in my opinion quite justified, criticism of multi millionaire golfers taking the Saudi dollars in LIV golf and there should be equal amounts of criticism for Ronaldo for doing the same. He could've gone to America and played for nothing and it wouldn't have affected his lifestyle at all. He could've retired and not affected his lifestyle. But instead he's chosen to accept an obscene amount of money to go to Saudi Arabia and effectively retire and help with sportswashing that country's reputation.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. Ronaldo’s net worth means he is already one of the richest sport stars on the planet. He never needs to earn another penny. His family will never want for anything.

And let’s remember the reason he wanted out of Manchester. Because United were not going to win him more silverware. He wasn’t going to be playing in the Champion’s League. He wasn’t going to be going toe to toe with Lionel Messi to prove himself, once and for all, the world’s best.

Well, when none of the big boys came knocking on his door that ambition soon died, didn’t it? As I say, a United great, and I have many great memories of his first stint at the club.

But I wish he’d never come back. He was on the classic hiding to nothing.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Surely your decision would be influenced by how your career has gone to that point and where the money is coming from. If you're worth north of £1 billion then you have the choice to be a bit more choosy about it than if you're struggling to put food in your family's mouths. There's been lots of, in my opinion quite justified, criticism of multi millionaire golfers taking the Saudi dollars in LIV golf and there should be equal amounts of criticism for Ronaldo for doing the same. He could've gone to America and played for nothing and it wouldn't have affected his lifestyle at all. He could've retired and not affected his lifestyle. But instead he's chosen to accept an obscene amount of money to go to Saudi Arabia and effectively retire and help with sportswashing that country's reputation.
		
Click to expand...

In the week where the World has lost arguably the best footballer ever,with  both his skill, ability and as a humble being, Ronaldo has put himself fully into context with everything that is wrong with the game. He isn't even fit to polish the boots of the great man recently passed.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Surely your decision would be influenced by how your career has gone to that point and where the money is coming from. If you're worth north of £1 billion then you have the choice to be a bit more choosy about it than if you're struggling to put food in your family's mouths. There's been lots of, in my opinion quite justified, criticism of multi millionaire golfers taking the Saudi dollars in LIV golf and there should be equal amounts of criticism for Ronaldo for doing the same. He could've gone to America and played for nothing and it wouldn't have affected his lifestyle at all. He could've retired and not affected his lifestyle. But instead he's chosen to accept an obscene amount of money to go to Saudi Arabia and effectively retire and help with sportswashing that country's reputation.
		
Click to expand...

Is he allowed in America?
rich people don’t need more money,but they all want more.
Does Elon Musk need more money?
Do top footballers need an extra £100k pw?
Is it any worse than Messi going to PSG?

Ronaldo isn’t worth £1bn


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 30, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is he allowed in America? *No idea - internet reports are mixed on whether he would be arrested if he went there.*
rich people don’t need more money,but they all want more. *- yes they do because* *people are inherently greedy*
Does Elon Musk need more money?* - nope absolutely not but see my answer above.*
Do top footballers need an extra £100k pw? *Again nope but see answer two above this one.*
Is it any worse than Messi going to PSG? *Nope, no worse than that. Messi chose to take the Saudi dollars in the same way as Ronaldo has. Although with Messi I can see some kind of justification as it doesn't seem that it was possible for him to stay at Barca due to their financial situation. But at the end of the day he still took the money to aid with sportswashing for the Saudi regime.*

Ronaldo isn’t worth £1bn *- OK slight exaggeration, according to Google he's worth around 1/2 billion dollars which I'm sure is enough for most people to live comfortably for the rest of their lives and actually use that money to do some good for others as well*

Click to expand...

See answers above.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			See answers above.
		
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So basically you’ve agreed with every thing I’ve said 👍🏻


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## Swango1980 (Dec 31, 2022)

37 year old footballer approaches end of his career. It appears none of the top clubs wants his services.

Offered about $200 million per year to play in a nothing league. Yes please. Why on earth not make as much as you possibly can just before retirement? People seem to think greed is a bad thing, when it is really just human nature. I'd imagine pretty much every one of us would say yes to our salary being multiplied 10 times over, even if the cash was coming from the Middle East. Even if we are living perfectly comfortable and happy lives as it stands.

Ronaldo will always be a legend, but his career has been tarnished a bit by his sulking in last year, and his Piers Morgan interview. I can't see either has been applauded by anyone really. But moving to a farmers league for huge amounts of money is just normal.for many top class footballers. Had he moved there at 30 years old, when he had more to.offer at the very top, I would call him greedy in a more negative light. But, if no one at the top wants him, then I've no issue with it.

I wonder how Ronaldo felt about it? Was he waiting for a bigger club to.come in? Seems like it took a while to sign the contract, given he has been without a club since before the World Cup. Would his agent been ringing around Chelsea, Arsenal and other top European Clubs? And, when they got no where, ended up with the Saudi Arabian deal?


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## SteveW86 (Dec 31, 2022)

I really hope all those slating Ronaldo for this are doing the same for the LIV golfers.


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## Billysboots (Dec 31, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I really hope all those slating Ronaldo for this are doing the same for the LIV golfers.
		
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I’m not slating Ronaldo simply because he’s gone to a nothing league for huge pots of cash. It’s primarily because his ultimate destination bears absolutely no resemblance to what he had in mind when he decided United could no longer meet his still lofty expectations.

Taking all the circumstances together, and given he is someone who, not two months ago, was telling the whole world he could still cut it at the very highest level, it makes him look a bit of a prat.

A wealthy prat, granted. But a prat nonetheless.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 31, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I really hope all those slating Ronaldo for this are doing the same for the LIV golfers.
		
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Yep, I am. And Anthony Joshua for fighting over there. Plus David Beckham for whoring himself out to Qatar for the World Cup. The list goes on. All multi millionaires willing to turn a blind eye to add more millions to their bank balances.


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## BrianM (Dec 31, 2022)

Fair play to Ronaldo, yes its a financial decision on his part, but I honestly believe that he might inspire boys and girls from Saudi Arabia to take up football and you never know we might get a few gems coming through that might come across to Europe.
Far too often it's just negativity coming across.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 31, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Yep, I am. And Anthony Joshua for fighting over there. Plus David Beckham for whoring himself out to Qatar for the World Cup. The list goes on. All multi millionaires willing to turn a blind eye to add more millions to their bank balances.
		
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My comment wasn’t aimed at any particular posters in here, it was just a comment based on the general inconsistency of people’s opinions.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2022)

Anyone lived out in Saudi? Is it not just too hot most of the time? Is life not spent moving from air conditioned building to air conditioned building? 

Interested to hear real life experiences.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Anyone lived out in Saudi? Is it not just too hot most of the time? Is life not spent moving from air conditioned building to air conditioned building? 

Interested to hear real life experiences.
		
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Probably why they bought City so they could stand in the Manc rain. 
Made me chuckle the other night watching Utd. It was Bladdering it down and the commentator said they are playing football in what can be described as “ typical Manchester weather “ 😁


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## Beezerk (Dec 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Anyone lived out in Saudi? Is it not just too hot most of the time? Is life not spent moving from air conditioned building to air conditioned building? 

Interested to hear real life experiences.
		
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I worked out there for a month back in the summer of 96. 40c at midnight isn’t nice, you’re correct you’re constantly indoors or in the pool as there’s just no respite from the heat. People were friendly mind, very hospitable.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I worked out there for a month back in the summer of 96. 40c at midnight isn’t nice, you’re correct you’re constantly indoors or in the pool as there’s just no respite from the heat. People were friendly mind, very hospitable.
		
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Thanks. I'm trying to gauge the lifestyle, even for a multi millionaire. Seems an odd choice when money isn't really an issue. He could probably have had his choice of US cities or clubs back in Portugal if he had wanted a swan song there. To make money the prime thing in his situation is sad really.


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## Beezerk (Dec 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Thanks. I'm trying to gauge the lifestyle, even for a multi millionaire. Seems an odd choice when money isn't really an issue. He could probably have had his choice of US cities or clubs back in Portugal if he had wanted a swan song there. To make money the prime thing in his situation is sad really.
		
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Maybe he’s found his level, playing with 3rd rate players will make him look like a superstar, all while making crazy money in the process.
I guess there’s also the angle of growing the game in Saudi but I really don’t want to go there 😬🤣


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## Swango1980 (Dec 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Thanks. I'm trying to gauge the lifestyle, even for a multi millionaire. Seems an odd choice when money isn't really an issue. He could probably have had his choice of US cities or clubs back in Portugal if he had wanted a swan song there. To make money the prime thing in his situation is sad really.
		
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It depends on the individual. If you are the sort that likes the city life, and the whole celebrity culture around that, then I'd imagine you'd want to be in a big city in western world 

I'm not sure Ronaldo is that sort of person. Seems to like living with his friends and family, and enjoys all that healthy living lifestyle.  So, I'd imagine he would be just as happy living in a mansion with pool, gym, massive amount of land, etc wherever it is, be it London, Grimsby, Mecca, Riyadh, Lagos, etc. Well, probably prefer places with nicer weather I guess. So, as long as the heat in Saudi isn't too unbearable, I'm sure he'll be happy enough there for a year or 2, earning a few hundred million.


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## Rlburnside (Dec 31, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Yep, I am. And Anthony Joshua for fighting over there. Plus David Beckham for whoring himself out to Qatar for the World Cup. The list goes on. All multi millionaires willing to turn a blind eye to add more millions to their bank balances.
		
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I’m no fan of wealthy sports stars taking the money but where do we draw the line though, many watch the premier league  and support Man City and Newcastle two clubs that could be argued are doing nothing more than sports washing


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## Slime (Dec 31, 2022)

Is Antony the most one footed player of all time?


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

Slime said:



			Is Antony the most one footed player of all time?
		
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Nigel Winterburn says hold my beer


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 31, 2022)

Slime said:



			Is Antony the most one footed player of all time?
		
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What do you expect for £80m 🤷‍♂️


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## pokerjoke (Dec 31, 2022)

Slime said:



			Is Antony the most one footed player of all time?
		
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One of the greatest Ryan Giggs


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## Slime (Dec 31, 2022)

Bruno just turned into Harry Kane!


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## Slime (Dec 31, 2022)

Great save.


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## Slime (Dec 31, 2022)




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## Slime (Dec 31, 2022)

Rash is on fire!


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## Slime (Dec 31, 2022)

The stupidity of the handball rules rears it's ugly head once more.
No fault of VAR, just a stupid rule.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2022)

Just outta interest, if City beat Everton today is big Franks time limited.


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## Slime (Dec 31, 2022)

Get in!
3 massive points from a very average performance.
Wan-Bissaka had a great game, I thought.


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## Slime (Dec 31, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just outta interest, if City beat Everton today is big Franks time limited.
		
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I think his time is limited whatever the result against City.
I tipped Everton to be relegated, nothing has changed my opinion.


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## Billysboots (Dec 31, 2022)

Slime said:



			Get in!
3 massive points from a very average performance.
Wan-Bissaka had a great game, I thought.
		
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Again, though, they are the games in which United have been dropping points for years. The 1-0 away wins when not quite at your best do so much for confidence and momentum.

And if Rashford was dropped for a discipline issue despite being on a decent run of form that just underlines the growing feeling I have about ten Hag - he’s in charge, not the players. I’m absolutely loving this fella, and the changes he is bringing about.


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## Billysboots (Dec 31, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just outta interest, if City beat Everton today is big Franks time limited.
		
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He’s lucky to still be there. Like Gerrard, a manager with a very limited CV, and extremely lucky to be at a Premier League club.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 31, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			He’s lucky to still be there. Like Gerrard, a manager with a very limited CV, and extremely lucky to be at a Premier League club.
		
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Surely him & Gerrard will need to drop down to the Championship or League 1 now.
Or move into punditry.


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## Billysboots (Dec 31, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Surely him & Gerrard will need to drop down to the Championship or League 1 now.
Or move into punditry.
		
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They should have cut their teeth in the lower leagues. Both are proven to be out of their depth, Gerrard especially so.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Just outta interest, if City beat Everton today is big Franks time limited.
		
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I don't think today will tip him over, unless it's a drubbing. It's City after all. Listening to his interviews it's clear he is limited in terms of transfers and the club and he are working within known means. The play isn't awful, we clearly lack goals though and that can take us down.

We have some winnable games coming up in January and how those early games go will see him stay or go. He is certainly in that territory.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 31, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			They should have cut their teeth in the lower leagues. Both are proven to be out of their depth, Gerrard especially so.
		
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Gerrard cut his teeth at Rangers for a few years but moving to Villa was prob a touch early


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2022)

It's a Saturday, there are a good few games on........where are Jeff and the lads? 😠. It's a D list special 😠


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## Billysboots (Dec 31, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gerrard cut his teeth at Rangers for a few years but moving to Villa was prob a touch early
		
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But the perennial two horse race in the Scottish Premier League is a world away from the EPL, Phil. It’s not even close, as the annual embarrassment of Celtic and Rangers in Europe underlines. It’s staggering that any Liverpool fan still thinks Gerrard will be the next manager once Klopp moves on and, believe me, I know a few who still think like that, even now.


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

Just caught a bit of Ten Haags press conference going on about discipline and punishment. Some punishment being left on the bench then brought on to bail the side out lol


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## pokerjoke (Dec 31, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a Saturday, there are a good few games on........where are Jeff and the lads? 😠. It's a D list special 😠
		
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Sky sports shocking today 
Listening to them is like an AA meeting,slurring words and finding it hard to finish sentences.
Also listening to Foreign interviews is like pulling teeth.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 31, 2022)

That’s another for Haaland.
Think he’s due a hat trick


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## Billysboots (Dec 31, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			That’s another for Haaland.
Think he’s due a hat trick
		
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Problem is everyone in our Fantasy League has him as their captain. And I triple captained him in a home game where I thought he was nailed on to bag at least a brace and he only scored the one!


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Problem is everyone in our Fantasy League has him as their captain. And I triple captained him in a home game where I thought he was nailed on to bag at least a brace and he only scored the one!
		
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triple captain not on a double gameweek? schoolboy error surely


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## Billysboots (Dec 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			triple captain not on a double gameweek? schoolboy error surely 

Click to expand...

I’m a newbie to it. Still running away with it, though 😎


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I’m a newbie to it. Still running away with it, though 😎
		
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Im not a newbie, and having an utter shocker lol. At least the draft is going ok considering i had last pick


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## Aztecs27 (Dec 31, 2022)

results all going Forest’s way so far. Just need Newcastle to do Leeds over and would be a perfect day.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2022)

Super Frank picks up an unexpected point 😄


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## SteveW86 (Dec 31, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			But the perennial two horse race in the Scottish Premier League is a world away from the EPL, Phil. It’s not even close, as the annual embarrassment of Celtic and Rangers in Europe underlines. It’s staggering that any Liverpool fan still thinks Gerrard will be the next manager once Klopp moves on and, believe me, I know a few who still think like that, even now.
		
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Did you actually read what Phil said? 😂

You’ve agreed the SPL is a lower level, and Phil agreed that Gerrards move to Villa was too early…..what is there to argue about.

Most Liverpool fans I’ve spoken to only want Gerrard anywhere near the job if he has proved himself capable, which currently I think everyone is agreed he hasn’t.


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## Billysboots (Dec 31, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Did you actually read what Phil said? 😂

You’ve agreed the SPL is a lower level, and Phil agreed that Gerrards move to Villa was too early…..what is there to argue about.

Most Liverpool fans I’ve spoken to only want Gerrard anywhere near the job if he has proved himself capable, which currently I think everyone is agreed he hasn’t.
		
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Yes. Believe it or not I can read.

Phil made the point that Gerrard had cut his teeth in Scotland. I merely replied to reinforce my view that cutting his teeth in Scotland does not actually equate to cutting his teeth at all. To all intents and purposes, Gerrard started his managerial career at Villa. Hardly qualifies as an argument, does it?


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## SteveW86 (Dec 31, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Yes. Believe it or not I can read.

Phil made the point that Gerrard had cut his teeth in Scotland. I merely replied to reinforce my view that cutting his teeth in Scotland does not actually equate to cutting his teeth at all. To all intents and purposes, Gerrard started his managerial career at Villa. Hardly qualifies as an argument, does it?
		
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So it just needs to be the correct lower level then, as the SPL is too low?

The thing is though, where does he go? Yes the SPL isn’t that competitive, but Rangers are a “big” club and it gave him an opportunity to manage in Europe that he wouldn’t have got at a championship club.

For me, the step to Villa was logical, they were struggling in the bottom half of the prem and it was a great opportunity at another “big” club. He was never going to go to a championship club after what he did at Rangers. The issue has come because he failed at Villa and now he needs to go and prove himself at a lower level again.


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## Billysboots (Dec 31, 2022)

It needs to be at the correct level, wherever that is. And, regardless of what Gerrard achieved at Rangers (I’m less convinced by what he did there than some, clearly), it seemed very clear from an early stage that the Premier League was too big a step up for him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2022)

Could this be the years Saints go? It would be a shame, I like the club, but there is a vibe about them that seems worrying. Saying that, the bottom 10 are pretty compressed so if you can put a couple of wins together you can jump up and release some pressure


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## paddyc (Dec 31, 2022)

Anthony Taylor having another tremendous  game!!


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## BrianM (Dec 31, 2022)

Could Arsenal win this league, they are looking impressive again tonight, confidence is sky high.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 31, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Could Arsenal win this league, they are looking impressive again tonight, confidence is sky high.
		
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Favourites now I would say
As you say confidence is sky high
Fair play to Arteta,and it looks like he’s getting backed as well.


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Could Arsenal win this league, they are looking impressive again tonight, confidence is sky high.
		
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very unlikely still, but theres a chance, albeit a small one..........

cracking first half performance, stiil look a bit shaky at the back at times (starting with the keeper)

I worry about Taylor finding a soft red in the 2nd half mind.


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## BrianM (Dec 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			very unlikely still, but theres a chance, albeit a small one..........

cracking first half performance, stiil look a bit shaky at the back at times (starting with the keeper)

I worry about Taylor finding a soft red in the 2nd half mind.
		
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Ramsdale is a quality keeper, I always think he looks really assured.
I’ve only seen him in games on TV though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			very unlikely still, but theres a chance, albeit a small one..........

cracking first half performance, stiil look a bit shaky at the back at times (starting with the keeper)

I worry about Taylor finding a soft red in the 2nd half mind.
		
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Next three games are key for them - Newcastle,Spurs then Utd - how they get on through them would certainly show how they lay


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## Billysboots (Dec 31, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Could Arsenal win this league, they are looking impressive again tonight, confidence is sky high.
		
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It’s looking more likely every week. Especially if those behind, notably City, drop any more points.

I still question whether Arsenal have the squad depth to cope with too many injuries, but if they can keep a hardcore thirteen or fourteen fit they’ve every chance.

And that’s good for the Premier League. It needs different names on the trophy.


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Ramsdale is a quality keeper, I always think he looks really assured.
I’ve only seen him in games on TV though.
		
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Good with his feet and a good shot stopper but sometimes makes wrong/rash decisions and not always the best at corners (as seen very early tonight)


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

Be good to see Arteta use his bench earlier tonight at 3 up and give a  few a bit of a rest


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

So good Oedegaard again


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## BrianM (Dec 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			So good Oedegaard again 

Click to expand...

What a ball, just a superb player 😀


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## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Could Arsenal win this league, they are looking impressive again tonight, confidence is sky high.
		
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I have been impressed with them and believe it could well be Arsenals year


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

Well we made hard work of that in the end but a cracking set of results for us today, the hope is real. Good time to play Brighton without Caicedo and McAllister yet they still caused us plenty of problems 2nd half.

Have to admire what Brighton have achieved recently considering the business model they operate on compared to plenty of others, they continue to have plenty of decent players, Mitoma another that looks top class, yet never really seem to miss the ones that they sell for the big bucks


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## Orikoru (Dec 31, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Could Arsenal win this league, they are looking impressive again tonight, confidence is sky high.
		
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I am actually starting to worry now.


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## BrianM (Dec 31, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I am actually starting to worry now.
		
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You need to worry about the premier league prediction table, I’m not going to fold like the World Cup prediction 😂😂😂


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## Golfmmad (Jan 1, 2023)

fundy said:



			Well we made hard work of that in the end but a cracking set of results for us today, the hope is real. Good time to play Brighton without Caicedo and McAllister yet they still caused us plenty of problems 2nd half.

Have to admire what Brighton have achieved recently considering the business model they operate on compared to plenty of others, they continue to have plenty of decent players, Mitoma another that looks top class, yet never really seem to miss the ones that they sell for the big bucks
		
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I was disappointed with our keeper tonight. Two soft goals he should have saved.
Have to say Arsenal are looking good.


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## paddyc (Jan 1, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			I have been impressed with them and believe it could well be Arsenals year
		
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A good win but there has to be concerns over the defence with the two soft goals conceded and Brighton getting in behind off the shoulder of players and the space afforded to them in dangerous  positions.
It was probably  a good game for Arteta as despite the win they shouldnt get carried away as there are things to work on and they will be tested more in the next 3 games.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2023)

paddyc said:



			A good win but there has to be concerns over the defence with the two soft goals conceded and Brighton getting in behind off the shoulder of players and the space afforded to them in dangerous  positions.
It was probably  a good game for Arteta as despite the win they shouldnt get carried away as there are things to work on and they will be tested more in the next 3 games.
		
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Totally agree but, I think Arsenal have less problems than City at the moment. City are not converting enough chances early doors and yesterdays result showed that once more.


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## pendodave (Jan 1, 2023)

Orikoru said:



			I am actually starting to worry now.
		
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I always used to think that Spurs winning the title would be my worst day in football...
But I'm starting to think that this lot are more obnoxious. 
City or Newcastle please. Genuinely dont give a flying f about either of them and have no family members/friends to be smug about it.


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## Orikoru (Jan 1, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			Totally agree but, I think Arsenal have less problems than City at the moment. City are not converting enough chances early doors and yesterdays result showed that once more.
		
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It really doesn't make sense that City aren't smashing the league. You take last season's team which was unreal, and add a striker who's basically scoring two goals a game... How are they not winning it by a landslide?? 😆


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 1, 2023)

Orikoru said:



			It really doesn't make sense that City aren't smashing the league. You take last season's team which was unreal, and add a striker who's basically scoring two goals a game... How are they not winning it by a landslide?? 😆
		
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They are quite  poor at the back if you get at them.
Teams now realise sitting back dosnt work against them.
So if your going to get beat you might as well have a go at them.

Plus their finishing hasn’t been up to their usual standard.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			They are quite  poor at the back if you get at them.
Teams now realise sitting back dosnt work against them.
So if your going to get beat you might as well have a go at them.

Plus their finishing hasn’t been up to their usual standard.
		
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Defensively I am not to concerned, having the 3rd best defence in the league. Cancello and Walker have not played the last few games so we could be stronger. Conceding one yesterday is not a problem if you put your chances away. Alvarez should help there. 
Teams have sat back for the last few years.  But we just don’t flow at the moment. Come what may it is making the title interesting. 
Oddly enough a few Arsenal pals have been getting a bit louder on Facebook lately having a few digs 😁


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## Golfmmad (Jan 1, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			Defensively I am not to concerned, having the 3rd best defence in the league. Cancello and Walker have not played the last few games so we could be stronger. Conceding one yesterday is not a problem if you put your chances away. Alvarez should help there. 
Teams have sat back for the last few years.  But we just don’t flow at the moment. Come what may it is making the title interesting. 
Oddly enough a few Arsenal pals have been getting a bit louder on Facebook lately having a few digs 😁
		
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I don't think Everton have been given enough credit here. To only concede one and score one against Man City and Haaland is a great result and deserves more credit than they've received.


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## Orikoru (Jan 1, 2023)

Golfmmad said:



			I don't think Everton have been given enough credit here. To only concede one and score one against Man City and Haaland is a great result and deserves more credit than they've received.
		
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All it's done is delayed Lampard's P45 by another week.


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## Slime (Jan 1, 2023)

Orikoru said:



			All it's done is delayed Lampard's P45 by another week.
		
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I wonder when Conte's getting his.


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## BrianM (Jan 1, 2023)

Spurs are Murder.


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## Jensen (Jan 1, 2023)

Time to say “arrivederci” to Conte.
Hopefully Daniel Levy’s New Years Resolution 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

😁


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## Jensen (Jan 1, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😁

View attachment 45769

Click to expand...


Been a loyal and terrific servant to Spurs though…..😉


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## Slime (Jan 1, 2023)

Jensen said:



			Been a loyal and terrific servant to Spurs though…..😉
		
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Never in doubt and having given his best years to Spurs, surely even the most ardent of supporters won't deny that he's earned his chance to move on at the end of the season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

Jensen said:



			Been a loyal and terrific servant to Spurs though…..😉
		
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He has indeed - well apart from looking to leave last summer to go to City but City wouldn’t pay the money


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## Jensen (Jan 1, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has indeed - well apart from looking to leave last summer to go to City but City wouldn’t pay the money
		
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At the time I thought it was a done deal. No Spurs fan could’ve said it wasn’t well earned.


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## paddyc (Jan 1, 2023)

Just got in  from a bike ride and seen the terrible  football news from North London 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Jensen (Jan 1, 2023)

paddyc said:



			Just got in  from a bike ride and seen the terrible  football news from North London 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
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Conte might been gone after the North London game 🤞


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

Jensen said:



			Conte might been gone after the North London game 🤞
		
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Thought Conte was the manager to take the club to the next level 🤷‍♂️


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## Billysboots (Jan 1, 2023)

I’ve never really understood why fans of so many so-called top clubs clamour to have Conte as their manager. He’s never been anything other than a short term manager who parts company with his employer when the going gets too tough.

I was delighted when United did the sensible thing and looked elsewhere.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve never really understood why fans of so many so-called top clubs clamour to have Conte as their manager. He’s never been anything other than a short term manager who parts company with his employer when the going gets too tough.

I was delighted when United did the sensible thing and looked elsewhere.
		
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He wins titles - did at Juve, Chelsea and Inter


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## Swango1980 (Jan 1, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He wins titles - did at Juve, Chelsea and Inter
		
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I'm sure Spurs fans are looking forward to their title win....


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## Neilds (Jan 1, 2023)

Looking like the (not so ) mighty Millers (Rotherham United) will be bouncing back to League One again- 7 season and never two consecutive in the same division!


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## Billysboots (Jan 1, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He wins titles - did at Juve, Chelsea and Inter
		
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He does, Phil. But I’ve never been one of those fans who just wants an instant fix. I love watching a manager build a club and a successful side by putting his stamp on things and bringing all the pieces together over a period of time. That brings me far more satisfaction than seeing a manager come in, win a trophy and then disappear again. Give me a Ferguson over a Conte any day of the week.

It’s why I’m so enjoying the early signs under ten Hag. He’s building something rather than looking for an instant fix. It’s much easier for regular match goers to have an affinity for a manager they have seen waking down the touchline for an extended period rather than someone like Conte who may do the business, but will be gone in the blink of an eye.

Football, for me, has never been all about winning titles. They are merely the icing on the cake. I want to see a club with a definite identity, something I can align myself to, and a short term manager simply doesn’t give you that.


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## Orikoru (Jan 1, 2023)

Slime said:



			I wonder when Conte's getting his.  

Click to expand...

Soon hopefully.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			He does, Phil. But I’ve never been one of those fans who just wants an instant fix. I love watching a manager build a club and a successful side by putting his stamp on things and bringing all the pieces together over a period of time. That brings me far more satisfaction than seeing a manager come in, win a trophy and then disappear again. Give me a Ferguson over a Conte any day of the week.

It’s why I’m so enjoying the early signs under ten Hag. He’s building something rather than looking for an instant fix. It’s much easier for regular match goers to have an affinity for a manager they have seen waking down the touchline for an extended period rather than someone like Conte who may do the business, but will be gone in the blink of an eye.

Football, for me, has never been all about winning titles. They are merely the icing on the cake. I want to see a club with a definite identity, something I can align myself to, and a short term manager simply doesn’t give you that.
		
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Unfortunately football and many fans are very short termish these days and people want instant success - Conte does that , comes into teams that don’t need huge amounts of work and brings them titles which satisfies those that want instant success etc 

People havent got the paitence to let a manager grow a team 

If Ten Haag doesn’t bring in success within 2 years then the knives will be out for some


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## Bdill93 (Jan 1, 2023)

Great result for the villa today! They might not be playing well for their aspirations but spurs are a top side with a top manager and Unai found a way to win. 

Nice to see McGinn getting back to form after a poor 2022 at club level. 

Going to be an interesting January window for us, no clue what Unai wants to address first.

Hopefully 2023 is a better year for villa than 2022 and we start marching up the table.


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## Slime (Jan 1, 2023)

Question to all those who thought United were mad for not hiring Conte when they could have done, do you still think United made a mistake?






Thought not.


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2023)

Another good days results 

Thought Villa deserved their win against a poor Spurs side and a much better effort from Forest. Was what I was expecting to see from them last week, they need to find a way to transfer their home performances to away performances, starting at Southampton. Massive massive game that for both sides


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## Slime (Jan 1, 2023)

A great weekend for United.
The only blot on the landscape was L'pool's fortunate win against Leicester City.
Unbelievably, what many think as an awful United side are only four points behind what many think, including myself, are champions elect, Man City!


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2023)

Slime said:



			A great weekend for United.
The only blot on the landscape was L'pool's fortunate win against Leicester City.
Unbelievably, what many think as an awful United are only four points behind what many think, including myself, are champions elect, Man City!
		
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and 11 points behind a side you beat


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## Slime (Jan 1, 2023)

fundy said:



			and 11 points behind a side you beat 

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It's a marathon, not a sprint.






Please let me hang on to that thought.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			He does, Phil. But I’ve never been one of those fans who just wants an instant fix. I love watching a manager build a club and a successful side by putting his stamp on things and bringing all the pieces together over a period of time. That brings me far more satisfaction than seeing a manager come in, win a trophy and then disappear again. Give me a Ferguson over a Conte any day of the week.

It’s why I’m so enjoying the early signs under ten Hag. He’s building something rather than looking for an instant fix. It’s much easier for regular match goers to have an affinity for a manager they have seen waking down the touchline for an extended period rather than someone like Conte who may do the business, but will be gone in the blink of an eye.

Football, for me, has never been all about winning titles. They are merely the icing on the cake. I want to see a club with a definite identity, something I can align myself to, and a short term manager simply doesn’t give you that.
		
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Quote:
Football, for me, has never been all about winning titles. They are merely the icing on the cake. I want to see a club with a definite identity, something I can align myself to, and a short term manager simply doesn’t give you that.

This all day long. As a City fan watching rammel football, my dream was one day being able to watch football being played like Utd used to when we were being battered year after year. 
Maybe it’s why I don’t feel the love with England, I just don’t see any identity. And yet Southgate has been there long enough to have that sorted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

Slime said:



			Question to all those who thought United were mad for not hiring Conte when they could have done, do you still think United made a mistake?






Thought not. 

Click to expand...

Long way to go yet before there are any conclusions- going to be a lot more twists yet and lots of points to play for


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## Aztecs27 (Jan 1, 2023)

Well, that was MUCH better. We deserved all 3 points based on the 2nd half performance but unfortunately we’re too cagey in the first half (although their goal was a ridiculous bit of luck). Every single player put in a shift today, and can’t fault them. More of the same and I’m confident we stay up.


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## Slime (Jan 1, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Long way to go yet before there are any conclusions- going to be a lot more twists yet and lots of points to play for
		
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Phil, right now do you think United made a mistake by not hiring Conte?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

Slime said:



			Phil, right now do you think United made a mistake by not hiring Conte?
		
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As i said - hard to judge right now , when Conte was available they stuck with OGS then went with Rangenick and Spurs have done significantly better than Utd over the period since Conte arrived - Conte got Spurs into CL 

1. Manchester City – 79 points, 34 games, +62 GD
2. Liverpool – 79 points, 35 games, +48 GD
3. Arsenal – 77 points, 35 games, +30 GD
4. Newcastle – 72 points, 36 games, +26 GD
5. Tottenham – 71 points, 37 games, +37 GD
6. Manchester United – 59 points, 36 games, 0 GD
7. Chelsea – 56 points, 33 games, +16 GD


It’s going to be easier to judge when the season finishes


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 1, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Unfortunately football and many fans are very short termish these days and people want instant success - Conte does that , comes into teams that don’t need huge amounts of work and brings them titles which satisfies those that want instant success etc

People havent got the paitence to let a manager grow a team

If Ten Haag doesn’t bring in success within 2 years then the knives will be out for some
		
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Is that like Hodgson at Liverpool when things didn't go well to start with. All clubs do it and Liverpool are as culpable as others.


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## BrianM (Jan 1, 2023)

Bdill93 said:



			Great result for the villa today! They might not be playing well for their aspirations but spurs are a top side with a top manager and Unai found a way to win.

Nice to see McGinn getting back to form after a poor 2022 at club level.

Going to be an interesting January window for us, no clue what Unai wants to address first.

Hopefully 2023 is a better year for villa than 2022 and we start marching up the table.
		
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That ball from McGinn 😎😎😎


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## Bdill93 (Jan 1, 2023)

BrianM said:



			That ball from McGinn 😎😎😎
		
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So good to see! One of very few players who is still around from the championship days, so much love for McGinn.


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## Aztecs27 (Jan 1, 2023)

Also, whatever Morgan Gibbs-White ends up costing us, was worth every penny and more. Just an absolute baller.


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## Golfmmad (Jan 1, 2023)

Orikoru said:



			All it's done is delayed Lampard's P45 by another week.
		
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I'll give your post an unlike! 😡


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jan 1, 2023)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is that like Hodgson at Liverpool when things didn't go well to start with. All clubs do it and Liverpool are as culpable as others.
		
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Did it ever go well at any point in his time there?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Did it ever go well at any point in his time there?
		
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Nope 

Think the low point was when we were 16th , then knocked out by Northampton in the cup and having players like Poulsen and Konchesky in the team - he shouldn’t have been given the job in the first place - zero track record at a big club. The worst manager in our history


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jan 1, 2023)

Slime said:



			Question to all those who thought United were mad for not hiring Conte when they could have done, do you still think United made a mistake?






Thought not. 

Click to expand...

Possibly not but they were for employing Ollie. 

Had Man u employed Conte he would have had a lot more financial backing than he’s had at Tottenham. I find it impossible to compare managers v clubs, generally clubs are not on a level playing field.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 1, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nope

Think the low point was when we were 16th , then knocked out by Northampton in the cup and *having players like Poulsen and Konchesky in the team *- he shouldn’t have been given the job in the first place - zero track record at a big club. The worst manager in our history
		
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Isn't that the fault of the board or the recruitment team rather than Hodgson? This is a genuine question not a dig as I've got no idea of the hierarchy at Liverpool. Wasn't Hodgson just playing those players that were available for him to pick? Did he have better options available to him?


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jan 1, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nope

Think the low point was when we were 16th , then knocked out by Northampton in the cup and having players like Poulsen and Konchesky in the team - he shouldn’t have been given the job in the first place - zero track record at a big club. The worst manager in our history
		
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When he left Fulham for Liverpool I thought he was an excellent appointment.

He was a very successful experienced manager, I think he deserved more time to clear the mess of Benitez and considering the club had bigger problems off the field. Harshly treated. 

I was chuffed when he got the England job, he done very well under the circumstances.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 1, 2023)

ColchesterFC said:



			Isn't that the fault of the board or the recruitment team rather than Hodgson? This is a genuine question not a dig as I've got no idea of the hierarchy at Liverpool. Wasn't Hodgson just playing those players that were available for him to pick? Did he have better options available to him?
		
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You won’t get a quick reply he will have to google it first.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jan 1, 2023)

ColchesterFC said:



			Isn't that the fault of the board or the recruitment team rather than Hodgson? This is a genuine question not a dig as I've got no idea of the hierarchy at Liverpool. Wasn't Hodgson just playing those players that were available for him to pick? Did he have better options available to him?
		
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I may be wrong but didn’t Roy buy 1 of them, Konchesky if I remember?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

ColchesterFC said:



			Isn't that the fault of the board or the recruitment team rather than Hodgson? This is a genuine question not a dig as I've got no idea of the hierarchy at Liverpool. Wasn't Hodgson just playing those players that were available for him to pick? Did he have better options available to him?
		
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They were players that Hodgson wanted , we didn’t have much of a recruitment team at the time - Konchesky was a player he knew form his Fulham time , Poulsen a player from his time in Denmark - he brought them in.


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## Hobbit (Jan 1, 2023)

ColchesterFC said:



			Isn't that the fault of the board or the recruitment team rather than Hodgson? This is a genuine question not a dig as I've got no idea of the hierarchy at Liverpool. Wasn't Hodgson just playing those players that were available for him to pick? Did he have better options available to him?
		
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The club was virtually bankrupt at that time and had to go to the courts for permission to be sold. Hodgson got dross because that was all the club could afford. If I remember correctly, Dalgliesh was also up for the job but didn’t get it as some on the board thought he wasn’t good enough. Rumour had it at that time that Dalgliesh conspired with others to get Hodgson sacked, and he subsequently got the job.

Although the team under Dalgliesh went on to win either the league cup or FA cup, their league form was actually worse under him than under Hodgson, and he was sacked. Ironically, Hodgson then managed West Brom who went on to beat L’pool home and away…


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

Hobbit said:



			The club was virtually bankrupt at that time and had to go to the courts for permission to be sold. Hodgson got dross because that was all the club could afford. If I remember correctly, Dalgliesh was also up for the job but didn’t get it as some on the board thought he wasn’t good enough. Rumour had it at that time that Dalgliesh conspired with others to get Hodgson sacked, and he subsequently got the job.

Although the team under Dalgliesh went on to win either the league cup or FA cup, their league form was actually worse under him than under Hodgson, and he was sacked. Ironically, Hodgson then managed West Brom who went on to beat L’pool home and away…
		
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Blimey - touch of poetic license there 

Kenny wasn’t up for the job when Hodgson was given the job and certainly didn’t “conspire” with anyone to get Hodgson fired 😂 - Hodgson’s results did that all by himself - 4 defeats in 5 games does that ( 13th in the league when he went - at one stage we were 19th ) - Kenny then for the rest of the season got the team back up the table to 6th


The next season we won the league cup , got beat in the FA Cup final but were inconsistent in the league - floating around 6th to 8th all season so not sure how the league form was worse 🤷‍♂️


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## Hobbit (Jan 1, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey - touch of poetic license there

Kenny wasn’t up for the job when Hodgson was given the job and certainly didn’t “conspire” with anyone to get Hodgson fired 😂 - Hodgson’s results did that all by himself - 4 defeats in 5 games does that ( 13th in the league when he went - at one stage we were 19th ) - Kenny then for the rest of the season got the team back up the table to 6th


The next season we won the league cup , got beat in the FA Cup final but were inconsistent in the league - floating around 6th to 8th all season so not sure how the league form was worse 🤷‍♂️
		
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Don’t shoot the messenger Phil. ‘Word on the street’ was there were behind the scenes conspiring by some board members and Dalgliesh. Was there, wasn’t there? We don’t know. At the point Dalgliesh was sacked L’pool were one position in the league worse than when Hodgson was sacked.

I think Hodgson was a little hard done by. He inherited a poor team that was lacking in confidence. It wasn’t a team he was going to turn round overnight, but it didn’t help that he wasn’t liked, especially as the fans knew their favourite son, King Kenny didn’t get the job.

All that said, I’m more interested in L’pool making top 4 this season than what happened x yrs ago.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2023)

Hobbit said:



			Don’t shoot the messenger Phil. ‘Word on the street’ was there were behind the scenes conspiring by some board members and Dalgliesh. Was there, wasn’t there? We don’t know. At the point Dalgliesh was sacked L’pool were one position in the league worse than when Hodgson was sacked.

I think Hodgson was a little hard done by. He inherited a poor team that was lacking in confidence. It wasn’t a team he was going to turn round overnight, but it didn’t help that he wasn’t liked, especially as the fans knew their favourite son, King Kenny didn’t get the job.

All that said, I’m more interested in L’pool making top 4 this season than what happened x yrs ago.
		
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Kenny left at the end of the 2011 season when we finished 8th - We were 13th when Hodgson was sacked 🤷‍♂️

Hodgson brought in poor players , employed poor tactics and lost his job because the results weren’t good enough - the club was in the bottom three at one stage , knocked out of the Cup by a league two team 

It wasn’t because of Kenny he was fired it was because of his results - worst manager we have had but he shouldn’t have got the job in the first place.’


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 1, 2023)

Blimey looks like Phil’s being educated on Liverpool fc 😬


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jan 1, 2023)

Just heard Conte’s interview on MOTD2 and he’s correct. Time and financial investment is needed at Tottenham.


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## Jensen (Jan 1, 2023)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Just heard Conte’s interview on MOTD2 and he’s correct. Time and financial investment is needed at Tottenham.
		
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He talks of creative players being injured, kulusevski apart we don’t have any ??
I’ve been saying for ages we need a quality creative centre midfield player to pull the strings. It stands out a mile. In addition his tactics are extremely negative and boring 😴😴
He’s had investment and yes time should be given, but to someone else.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 1, 2023)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			When he left Fulham for Liverpool I thought he was an excellent appointment.

He was a very successful experienced manager, I think he deserved more time to clear the mess of Benitez and considering the club had bigger problems off the field. Harshly treated.

I was chuffed when he got the England job, he done very well under the circumstances.
		
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It’s stretching a bit to say Hodgson was a very successful manager, he had a good record in Sweden but all the teams he managed ie Inter, Liverpool West Brom Fulham, Palace he won nothing. 

Also as England manager he underperformed and we played some woeful football at times.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jan 1, 2023)

Rlburnside said:



			It’s stretching a bit to say Hodgson was a very successful manager, he had a good record in Sweden but all the teams he managed ie Inter, Liverpool West Brom Fulham, Palace he won nothing.

Also as England manager he underperformed and we played some woeful football at times.
		
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He won a couple of trophies in Italy if my memory is correct.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jan 1, 2023)

Jensen said:



			He talks of creative players being injured, kulusevski apart we don’t have any ??
I’ve been saying for ages we need a quality creative centre midfield player to pull the strings. It stands out a mile. In addition his tactics are extremely negative and boring 😴😴
He’s had investment and yes time should be given, but to someone else.
		
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Isn’t that the point he is making. Tottenham need more creativity and Without investment 4th-6th is actually par.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 1, 2023)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			He won a couple of trophies in Italy if my memory is correct.
		
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I assume you are on the internet typing this post? If so, it might be a good idea to Google it, or go on Wiki. It takes seconds  and it isn't cheating. It is not a test  

According to Wiki, he didn't win anything in Italy, except a runner up in UEFA Cup?


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## HomecountiesJohn (Jan 2, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			I assume you are on the internet typing this post? If so, it might be a good idea to Google it, or go on Wiki. It takes seconds  and it isn't cheating. It is not a test 

According to Wiki, he didn't win anything in Italy, except a runner up in UEFA Cup?
		
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oh dear me, my memory isn’t as good as I thought it was.

I’ll pass on googling and reading wiki, it’s not that important really.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2023)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			He won a couple of trophies in Italy if my memory is correct.
		
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He has won some trophies in Scandinavia nothing in Italy or England

His record at the two big clubs he managed isn’t great


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## Beezerk (Jan 2, 2023)

I've just watched a documentary about the 1970 world cup on the BBC. I'm going out on a limb here, wow the standard of football was absolutely shocking, some proper Sunday pub team stuff going on.
There I've said it 😬


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2023)

Beezerk said:



			I've just watched a documentary about the 1970 world cup on the BBC. I'm going out on a limb here, wow the standard of football was absolutely shocking, some proper Sunday pub team stuff going on.
There I've said it 😬
		
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Definitely makes sense.

With the money and technology in the game now, the standard must be a lot higher. Also, coaches have had another 50 years to improve and refine their advice and tactics. 

The gulf between the best and worst teams would have been much much higher back then as well. I'm guessing the World Cup had quite a few amateur footballers in the past, especially for the minor nations. The coach was probably a full.time PE teacher. Whereas now even the worst teams are made up.of professional footballers and full time coach and staff.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2023)

Beezerk said:



			I've just watched a documentary about the 1970 world cup on the BBC. I'm going out on a limb here, wow the standard of football was absolutely shocking, some proper Sunday pub team stuff going on.
There I've said it 😬
		
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I think some of the pitches were Sunday pub standard as well 😁


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			I think some of the pitches were Sunday pub standard as well 😁
		
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Yes the quality of top notch pitches now is chalk and cheese.
The players adapted to the pitches.
Plus the ball weighed a ton.
Can’t compare imo.


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## RichA (Jan 2, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes the quality of top notch pitches now is chalk and cheese.
The players adapted to the pitches.
Plus the ball weighed a ton.
Can’t compare imo.
		
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But then, the mind boggles as to how good Pele could've been with modern pitches, balls, fitness and training regimes.


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2023)

RichA said:



			But then, the mind boggles as to how good Pele could've been with modern pitches, balls, fitness and training regimes.
		
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And, equally, how bad Harry Maguire would have been when pitches were grassless bogs, lace-up footballs weighed a tonne and referees gave players no protection whatsoever. 

Yep. He’d have been (even more) shocking.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			And, equally, how bad Harry Maguire would have been when pitches were grassless bogs, lace-up footballs weighed a tonne and referees gave players no protection whatsoever. 

Yep. He’d have been (even more) shocking.
		
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🤔😳😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2023)

RichA said:



			But then, the mind boggles as to how good Pele could've been with modern pitches, balls, fitness and training regimes.
		
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He'd have definitely needed to be fitter and undergo better training to be the same level of player (relative to others) as he was back then. His opponents would be miles fitter, all had better training from youth and teams much better organised defensively. 

Just imagine how any of the top players today would play back then. They'd be unbelievable, like DeBruyne suddenly going to play in the Scottish league. Messi or Ronaldo, with their current levels of fitness and training, would be crazy good. Probably score hat tricks most games. Just as long as they avoid and career ending injuries.

Again, why it is difficult and unfair to compare players and teams from different eras. 

Always disappointing that Pele never came to Europe to really test himself. We only really saw him at a World Cup, were he was the star of a side that was already miles better than most, if not all other teams.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2023)

For anyone watching the Liverpool game, are there 2 female co-commentators talking over each other. Even if that is the case or not, cannot make out a word they are saying. Like a mumbling child. Never heard anything so amateurish

Actually, just did split screen. Looks like 2 children


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## nickjdavis (Jan 2, 2023)

Carragher needs to realise that there is a new "top six" in the PL.....stating that only Arsenal of the top six have taken three points off Brentford. He is obviously forgetting the 5-1 drubbing Brentford suffered at St. James Pk.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2023)

RichA said:



			But then, the mind boggles as to how good Pele could've been with modern pitches, balls, fitness and training regimes.
		
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Think Pele would be class in any era.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			For anyone watching the Liverpool game, are there 2 female co-commentators talking over each other. Even if that is the case or not, cannot make out a word they are saying. Like a mumbling child. Never heard anything so amateurish

Actually, just did split screen. Looks like 2 children
		
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Figured it out. Kids are on channel 402 on Sky, awful to listen to. Normal coverage on 401


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2023)

I thought if it hits a strikers hand and they score it’s disallowed!
Has this rule changed ?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought if it hits a strikers hand and they score it’s disallowed!
Has this rule changed ?
		
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It was an own goal


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 2, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			For anyone watching the Liverpool game, are there 2 female co-commentators talking over each other. Even if that is the case or not, cannot make out a word they are saying. Like a mumbling child. Never heard anything so amateurish

Actually, just did split screen. Looks like 2 children
		
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They are doing a special junior broadcast with kids. Go on to one of the other sky sports channels, it's the usual suspects.

Sorry, just seen your follow up post


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## BrianM (Jan 2, 2023)

Liverpool a mile off it tonight….
They got away with one there.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2023)

Liverpool are abysmal so far.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



*Always disappointing that Pele never came to Europe to really test himself. *We only really saw him at a World Cup, were he was the star of a side that was already miles better than most, if not all other teams.
		
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Apparently, back in the day, Brazil only picked players for the national side who played their football in Brazil.


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## paddyc (Jan 2, 2023)

Liverpool doing a Man U at Brentford.


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## fundy (Jan 2, 2023)

Brentford been excellent, deserve all the credit


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			It was an own goal
		
Click to expand...

It hit the Brentford player on the hand then Konate on the knee.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2023)

Reds shocking here.
Got to stop the crosses coming in .we’re all over the place at the back.
Only Allison on it.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			It hit the Brentford player on the hand then Konate on the knee.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but it was still an own goal. The rule only disallow the goal if it hits the arm of the player who scored. Like Rashford in last game. Had it hit Rashford, and then an own goal or other Utd player scored, no handball


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## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2023)

Micah just said what I said a few months back, Liverpool playing a high line. But that second goal how long was he on his own in the six yard box.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2023)

fundy said:



			Brentford been excellent, deserve all the credit
		
Click to expand...

They most certainly do deserve the lead. As poor as we have been they have been just as good


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, but it was still an own goal. The rule only disallow the goal if it hits the arm of the player who scored. Like Rashford in last game. Had it hit Rashford, and then an own goal or other Utd player scored, no handball
		
Click to expand...

Well that’s all I asked!
I could see it was an own goal.
The handball rule is piss poor.


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2023)

Thoroughly enjoying the game so far. There is a real danger of Liverpool slipping further behind in the race for top four, and if this continues I may have to contribute to the “Things that gladden the heart” thread.


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## IanM (Jan 2, 2023)

Even Spurs came back from 2 nil at Brentford 

That's one


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2023)

Cracking game.


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2023)

That is shockingly weak defending. Liverpool can complain all they like, but that’s just poor.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2023)

Konaté, knowing when he's beaten, tries to buy a cheap free kick. 

Very good goal.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 2, 2023)

I do enjoy watching Liverpool lose.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2023)

Slime said:



			Konaté, knowing when he's beaten, tries to buy a cheap free kick. 

Very good goal.
		
Click to expand...

He wasn’t beaten he had the ball but didn’t clear it 

Piss poor from Konate ,obviously never heard of row Z.[/QUOTE]


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## Swango1980 (Jan 2, 2023)

Slime said:



			Konaté, knowing when he's beaten, tries to buy a cheap free kick. 

Very good goal.
		
Click to expand...

Imagine that was Harry Maguire. There would be certain members in this forum who couldn't get on this thread quick enough to mock him. Also a cynical tackle earlier by Thiago. Had it been a Man City player, again the same guys would be slamming him.

If Liverpool don't finish in top 4, and Man Utd do, would that mean top players like Bellingham won't go to Liverpool, but might go to Utd?


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2023)

Looking forward to Klopp's interview after the game.
He must/should be absolutely seething.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2023)

Brentford full value for their 3 points tonight, out fought Liverpool , bullied the backline - can see why they are so strong at home - it’s going to be a heck of a battle this season


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2023)

Well done to Brentford a deserved win.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2023)

Thomas Frank wouldn't be a bad fit for England ................................ just saying.


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			Imagine that was Harry Maguire. There would be certain members in this forum who couldn't get on this thread quick enough to mock him. Also a cynical tackle earlier by Thiago. Had it been a Man City player, again the same guys would be slamming him.

If Liverpool don't finish in top 4, and Man Utd do, would that mean top players like Bellingham won't go to Liverpool, but might go to Utd?
		
Click to expand...

Don’t also forget the grief United fans got when we were turned over at the same ground.

Liverpool may well turn their season round, but they have been very average to date. They didn’t impress at home against a very, very poor Leicester side and they have been awful again this evening. They can buy all the striking talent they like but, defensively, they are nowhere near where they need to be.


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## BrianM (Jan 2, 2023)

Robertson brought some energy to the side when he came on, but what the hell Konate, just shocking defending at that level, if that was Maguire he’d off been thrown under the bus by every man and his dog.
Brentford look a really decent outfit 😀


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## AmandaJR (Jan 2, 2023)

Slime said:



			Thomas Frank wouldn't be a bad fit for England ................................ just saying.
		
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Oh please no - the manic gum chewing is too much!


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			Don’t also forget the grief United fans got when we were turned over at the same ground.

Liverpool may well turn their season round, but they have been very average to date. They didn’t impress at home against a very, very poor Leicester side and they have been awful again this evening. They can buy all the striking talent they like but, defensively, they are nowhere near where they need to be.
		
Click to expand...

Can’t really disagree with that.
But imho it’s the midfield that’s the problem and the high line given the midfield we have.


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2023)

Slime said:



			Thomas Frank wouldn't be a bad fit for England ................................ just saying.
		
Click to expand...

What is happening at Brentford under Frank kind of reinforces what I was saying yesterday regarding what football means to me. A club which put their faith in a manager, give him time to build something, and allow the fans to buy into it.

Brentford may never win a major trophy under Frank, but just look what their endeavour means to those fans. Football is not all about winning titles - it’s about the journey and the dreams along the way.

Absolutely brilliant to see.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2023)

Slime said:



			Thomas Frank wouldn't be a bad fit for England ................................ just saying.
		
Click to expand...

Why would he ?
He’s got a nice job where he is.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			He wasn’t beaten he had the ball but didn’t clear it

Piss poor from Konate ,obviously never heard of row Z.
		
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

He should know where row Z is, Nunez has shown him enough times.

Joking aside, it seems the defeat on City was not a one off for Brentford beating the big boys.

Wonder what odds Toney got on that result.


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			He should know where row Z is, Nunez has shown him enough times.
		
Click to expand...

Is 2 January too early to award the GM forum comment of the year prize?

😂


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## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			Is 2 January too early to award the GM forum comment of the year prize?

😂
		
Click to expand...

i don’t mind having a laugh Billy, lord knows City have given enough opportunity for that to come back to haunt me This season. Chuck in just about every club in the Prem bar Arsenal and it sums up the Prem league at the moment. Just brilliant from week to week.


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t really disagree with that.
But imho it’s the midfield that’s the problem and the high line given the midfield we have.
		
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Micah Richards and Jamie Carragher just making the same point - a very average midfield with only one new signing in the last four years.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			Micah Richards and Jamie Carragher just making the same point - a very average midfield with only one new signing in the last four years.
		
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The quality midfielders that are moving at the moment are going for serious money. 😳
Nice to read Macallister is in no rush to move.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			Micah Richards and Jamie Carragher just making the same point - a very average midfield with only one new signing in the last four years.
		
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The midfield wasn’t the issue tonight - whilst we do need to bring in players for the middle of the park it was the back line at fault tonight , hopefully the injury to VVD isn’t too serious


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## Billysboots (Jan 2, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The midfield wasn’t the issue tonight - whilst we do need to bring in players for the middle of the park it was the back line at fault tonight , hopefully the injury to VVD isn’t too serious
		
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Agree to an extent, Phil, but the pundits did make the point that your defence can’t hold a high line like Liverpool do if they aren’t getting better protection from those in front of them. So both were perhaps found wanting this evening.


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## Beezerk (Jan 2, 2023)

He should know where row Z is, Nunez has shown him enough times.

Joking aside, it seems the defeat on City was not a one off for Brentford beating the big boys.

Wonder what odds Toney got on that result.[/QUOTE]

Speaking of Nunez, got some right hand on him 🤣

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609972982461652993


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			Agree to an extent, Phil, but the pundits did make the point that your defence can’t hold a high line like Liverpool do if they aren’t getting better protection from those in front of them. So both were perhaps found wanting this evening.
		
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We have always had the high line and rely on the the back four stepping at the right time to keep the players offside - it’s very hard to do and need to ensure the back four and all aligned - Fabinho was back tonight and protected them better - we may have missed some leadership in the middle but we shouldn’t take away from Brentford who for the second year in a row just out fought us all over the pitch


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2023)

As reported on the BBC Gossip page.

Cristiano Ronaldo has a clause in his Al Nassr contract allowing the Portugal forward, 37, to join Newcastle United on loan if they qualify for the Champions League this season. (Marca)

So the question is. Would the Newcastle fans want Ronaldo in there team. 😳


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			As reported on the BBC Gossip page.

Cristiano Ronaldo has a clause in his Al Nassr contract allowing the Portugal forward, 37, to join Newcastle United on loan if they qualify for the Champions League this season. (Marca)

So the question is. Would the Newcastle fans want Ronaldo in there team. 😳
		
Click to expand...

If Newcastle qualify for CL it’s going to be next season.
So he’s a year older and spent a year in a Micky mouse league.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 3, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			As reported on the BBC Gossip page.

Cristiano Ronaldo has a clause in his Al Nassr contract allowing the Portugal forward, 37, to join Newcastle United on loan if they qualify for the Champions League this season. (Marca)

So the question is. Would the Newcastle fans want Ronaldo in there team. 😳
		
Click to expand...

I'm not a Toon fan, but live in Toon Land. No, they would not. Neither would Eddie Howe. Howe has built a real team culture, there are no superstars in the team. There is no way he would want Ronaldo in his side to upset the balance. Add to that, watch them play Arsenal tonight and see how hard they run and press. What was one of the many criticisms of Ronaldo at Utd? That he would not do any of that.

It's paper talk because of the Saudi link but that's all.


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## Aztecs27 (Jan 3, 2023)

Rumours that we're hoping to ship Emmanuel Dennis off in the Jan window. 

a.) I hope it's true - in a terrible Forest team, he's the only player who has not improved since the start of the season. Every single other player (including Lingard!) has stepped up. 
b.) I don't think we'll get our money back for him, but I think I'd rather trim the dead weight now, as we don't need any dressing room issues when he's not getting game time. 
c.) it wouldn't surprise me, as Cooper didn't want him in the first place (and nearly led to him walking out in August, as I understand it).

Also hearing rumours that Sam Surridge is being sent out on Loan to Burnley. Great for Burnley if so...massive loss for us - he really deserves a proper chance in the Forest 1st team.

We desperately need a CB and dynamic striker to compliment Awoniyi's I'll-just-run-through-you approach.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2023)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not a Toon fan, but live in Toon Land. No, they would not. Neither would Eddie Howe. Howe has built a real team culture, there are no superstars in the team. There is no way he would want Ronaldo in his side to upset the balance. Add to that, watch them play Arsenal tonight and see how hard they run and press. What was one of the many criticisms of Ronaldo at Utd? That he would not do any of that.

It's paper talk because of the Saudi link but that's all.
		
Click to expand...

This is exactly as I thought, However what struck me was Ronaldo thinking he could have the clause inserted allowing him to go. Is his ego really that big?


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			This is exactly as I thought, However what struck me was Ronaldo thinking he could have the clause inserted allowing him to go. Is his ego really that big?
		
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Is it just Newcastle or is it any club that qualify for the CL.
I can’t see an English club taking him after his infamous interview.


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is it just Newcastle or is it any club that qualify for the CL.
I can’t see an English club taking him after his infamous interview.
		
Click to expand...

His race is run in this country and, I suspect, the top leagues in Europe. More baggage than Harry and Meghan.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 3, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			This is exactly as I thought, However what struck me was Ronaldo thinking he could have the clause inserted allowing him to go. *Is his ego really that big?*

Click to expand...

Are you really asking that question? 

Add another point to the mix, why would Newcastle, or any PL team, want to tie up so much money in him, messing their FFP, when he now gives so little back? I don't see that it makes sense on any level in the PL. A league that wants to boost its profile, yes, but anywhere else, certainly for footballing reasons, no.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 3, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			As reported on the BBC Gossip page.

Cristiano Ronaldo has a clause in his Al Nassr contract allowing the Portugal forward, 37, to join Newcastle United on loan if they qualify for the Champions League this season. (Marca)

So the question is. Would the Newcastle fans want Ronaldo in there team. 😳
		
Click to expand...

<infraction> No!!!!!

We are a team....Ronaldo doesnt understand the concept.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2023)

I’m guessing Al Nasser is owned by PIF as well then - not surprised there is some “clause” ? 

Wouldn’t surprise me if he did turn up at Newcastle “on loan” when Al Nasser aren’t playing


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## Swango1980 (Jan 3, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			This is exactly as I thought, However what struck me was Ronaldo thinking he could have the clause inserted allowing him to go. *Is his ego really that big?*

Click to expand...

To be fair, nearly all footballers have clauses in their contracts to allow them to get out of it if something bigger comes along (unless you are Harry Kane, and get a big kick in the nuts when you find you are stuck at Spurs because your brother failed to get a clause in his contract)

If true, it simply tells me that Ronaldo still has a desire to play in the Champions League, and is willing to abandon the ridiculously high wages from his Saudi Arabian contract if a suitable offer comes in. I don't see there being a problem with that type of ambition or belief. If he didn't have a clause, then he could be accused of completely giving up on playing top level football ever again (which he has already been accused of from anyway).

Of course, it is one thing having the ambition to play at that level again, and another thing actually getting that opportunity. It is difficult to see this happening. Most big clubs are unlikely going to want a 37/38 year old on high wages. But, even if clubs wanted a temporary solution, Ronaldo's petulance over the last year will have put most, if not all clubs off from signing him anyway. If clubs are in the Champions League, they've already played at a high enough level to achieve this, and probably have a pretty decent team atmosphere. The thought of having Ronaldo in that squad would be scary, because you'd be worried that if things start going wrong, his attitude would make things worse, instead of bringing the team together and getting through any rocky spells.


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## moogie (Jan 3, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			As reported on the BBC Gossip page.

Cristiano Ronaldo has a clause in his Al Nassr contract allowing the Portugal forward, 37, to join Newcastle United on loan if they qualify for the Champions League this season. (Marca)

So the question is. Would the Newcastle fans want Ronaldo in there team. 😳
		
Click to expand...


Big fat NO......!!!


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## Orikoru (Jan 3, 2023)

Aztecs27 said:



			Rumours that we're hoping to ship Emmanuel Dennis off in the Jan window. 

a.) I hope it's true - in a terrible Forest team, he's the only player who has not improved since the start of the season. Every single other player (including Lingard!) has stepped up. 
b.) I don't think we'll get our money back for him, but I think I'd rather trim the dead weight now, as we don't need any dressing room issues when he's not getting game time. 
c.) it wouldn't surprise me, as Cooper didn't want him in the first place (and nearly led to him walking out in August, as I understand it).

Also hearing rumours that Sam Surridge is being sent out on Loan to Burnley. Great for Burnley if so...massive loss for us - he really deserves a proper chance in the Forest 1st team.

We desperately need a CB and dynamic striker to compliment Awoniyi's I'll-just-run-through-you approach.
		
Click to expand...

I find this surprising as Dennis looked really good for a period at Watford. Sure he was linked to some top half clubs at the time, maybe even Arsenal if memory serves.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 3, 2023)




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## Aztecs27 (Jan 3, 2023)

Orikoru said:



			I find this surprising as Dennis looked really good for a period at Watford. Sure he was linked to some top half clubs at the time, maybe even Arsenal if memory serves.
		
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I suspect that's why he was bought in, but he's really shown nothing. My Watford supporting mate said he may do well but drop off fairly quickly and seems to rattle a few cages in the dressing room if he doesn't get his way - so I hope that it doesn't come to that.

But in all the appearances he's made, he either doesn't pass the ball to any of his team mates, when there's multiple options going OR passes the ball straight to the opponent. I'm not exaggerating either, it really has been that bad. Maybe his heart's not in it, and he's not bought into Cooper's culture, I don't know - but everyone else seems like they'd take a bullet for the team. Even "only here for the money" Lingard, who's now out for a month with a hamstring problem, was patrolling the sideline on Sunday, handing out drinks during breaks, telling the referee he's useless (he was ) and is visibly invested in wanting Forest to do well. 

Shame we don't seem to have got the same player Watford had (or maybe we just don't play the style of football he can thrive in - probably because we've been terrible for the majority of the first part of the season ), but his mistakes and lack of vision to feed his team mates just means he's currently taking up a spot in the squad that could be better used.


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## Piece (Jan 3, 2023)

Aztecs27 said:



			I suspect that's why he was bought in, but he's really shown nothing. *My Watford supporting mate said he may do well but drop off fairly quickly* and seems to *rattle a few cages in the dressing room* if he doesn't get his way - so I hope that it doesn't come to that.

But in all the appearances he's made, *he either doesn't pass the ball to any of his team mates, when there's multiple options going OR passes the ball straight to the opponent.* I'm not exaggerating either, it really has been that bad. Maybe his heart's not in it, and he's not bought into Cooper's culture, I don't know - but everyone else seems like they'd take a bullet for the team. Even "only here for the money" Lingard, who's now out for a month with a hamstring problem, was patrolling the sideline on Sunday, handing out drinks during breaks, telling the referee he's useless (he was ) and is visibly invested in wanting Forest to do well.

Shame we don't seem to have got the same player Watford had (or maybe we just don't play the style of football he can thrive in - probably because we've been terrible for the majority of the first part of the season ), but his mistakes and lack of vision to feed his team mates just means he's currently taking up a spot in the squad that could be better used.
		
Click to expand...

Yup, yup and yup! 

We'll take him back for free, only because we've got 14 first-teamers out!


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			To be fair, nearly all footballers have clauses in their contracts to allow them to get out of it if something bigger comes along (unless you are Harry Kane, and get a big kick in the nuts when you find you are stuck at Spurs *because your brother failed to get a clause in his contract)*

If true, it simply tells me that Ronaldo still has a desire to play in the Champions League, and is willing to abandon the ridiculously high wages from his Saudi Arabian contract if a suitable offer comes in. I don't see there being a problem with that type of ambition or belief. If he didn't have a clause, then he could be accused of completely giving up on playing top level football ever again (which he has already been accused of from anyway).

Of course, it is one thing having the ambition to play at that level again, and another thing actually getting that opportunity. It is difficult to see this happening. Most big clubs are unlikely going to want a 37/38 year old on high wages. But, even if clubs wanted a temporary solution, Ronaldo's petulance over the last year will have put most, if not all clubs off from signing him anyway. If clubs are in the Champions League, they've already played at a high enough level to achieve this, and probably have a pretty decent team atmosphere. The thought of having Ronaldo in that squad would be scary, because you'd be worried that if things start going wrong, his attitude would make things worse, instead of bringing the team together and getting through any rocky spells.
		
Click to expand...

That I didnt know, 😳.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

Piece said:



			Yup, yup and yup! 

We'll take him back for free, only because we've got 14 first-teamers out! 

Click to expand...


Is Davis out after last night too? He looked excellent before going off


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## Swango1980 (Jan 3, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			That I didnt know, 😳.
		
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Yeah, I understand Harry Kane thought there was a gentleman's agreement with Levy, but when push came to shove, Levy wouldn't let him leave as nothing was written down on paper. I think many found that ridiculously naive from Kane, especially after signing a 6 year contract.


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## Aztecs27 (Jan 3, 2023)

Piece said:



			Yup, yup and yup! 

We'll take him back for free, only because we've got 14 first-teamers out! 

Click to expand...

Glad it's a universal opinion! As I said before, I'm almost certain Cooper had nothing to do with his signing and wasn't happy about it happening, and has tried to make the most of him being here - but he's just terrible.



fundy said:



			Is Davis out after last night too? He looked excellent before going off
		
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Bloody miss that lad. Gutted we didn't sign him in the summer but Villa wanted stupid money for him. Fortunately Awoniyi is built from the same stuff and has started to look like Davis did for us last season.


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## Piece (Jan 3, 2023)

Aztecs27 said:



			Glad it's a universal opinion! As I said before, I'm almost certain Cooper had nothing to do with his signing and wasn't happy about it happening, and has tried to make the most of him being here - but he's just terrible.
		
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He downed tools when he made enough "noise" to get himself noticed for a 'big' move. When he was good (10 games or so), he was excellent, but when he wasn't....well, you've seen it!



Aztecs27 said:



			Bloody miss that lad. Gutted we didn't sign him in the summer but Villa wanted stupid money for him. Fortunately Awoniyi is built from the same stuff and has started to look like Davis did for us last season.
		
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It's taken him ages to get fit. We just need some of our decent players back fit (and others via the transfer market) to support him. What you'd call, "a right hand full on his day".


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## Aztecs27 (Jan 3, 2023)

Piece said:



			He downed tools when he made enough "noise" to get himself noticed for a 'big' move. When he was good (10 games or so), he was excellent, but when he wasn't....well, you've seen it!



It's taken him ages to get fit. We just need some of our decent players back fit (and others via the transfer market) to support him. What you'd call, "a right hand full on his day".
		
Click to expand...

perfect summary of Davis. 

The Athletic are reporting that Dennis may be moved on to the MLS or Saudi as there's been some interest....for around £10m....if so, I'm absolutely delighted with that outcome. Got our money back and gets him out of the squad. Win-win.


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

Very slightly nervous about United fielding a very Solskjaer-esque back four. I’m hoping the combination of opposition and Casemiro in front of that defence will mean my fears are misplaced, but the Lindelöf/Maguire pairing, in particular, has always given me the jitters.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2023)

Leicester, Chelsea and Newcastle next for Fulham so a reality check coming up


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Leicester, Chelsea and Newcastle next for Fulham so a reality check coming up
		
Click to expand...

Should get 3 points this evening. Leicester are woeful. And I’ve just added Mitrovic to my FL team. Result.


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## adam6177 (Jan 3, 2023)

Refs having a shocking game (arsenal Newcastle)... The softest of soft fouls is a yellow card, which is encouraging players to go down easier and easier .... Screaming and barrel rolls.  This could get farcical.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

who on earth put Madley in charge ffs


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)




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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2023)

I see Man Utd have dropped their £90mil forward who has only scored 3 all season -I’m surprised when the media are talking about flops of the season that he appears to have been ignored which is surprising as he was the most expensive signing of the summer 

And the Arsenal Newcastle game - when the heck did they allow Maddely to ref a Prem game again , must be odds on for a red card this game now


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I see Man Utd have dropped their £90mil forward who has only scored 3 all season -I’m surprised when the media are talking about flops of the season that he appears to have been ignored which is surprising as he was the most expensive signing of the summer

And the Arsenal Newcastle game - when the heck did they allow Maddely to ref a Prem game again , *must be odds on for a red card this game now*

Click to expand...


i took the 6/1 lol


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2023)

I wonder if this will finish 11 v 11 🤔


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



*I see Man Utd have dropped their £90mil forward who has only scored 3 all season* -I’m surprised when the media are talking about flops of the season that he appears to have been ignored which is surprising as he was the most expensive signing of the summer

And the Arsenal Newcastle game - when the heck did they allow Maddely to ref a Prem game again , must be odds on for a red card this game now
		
Click to expand...

It's called squad rotation ....................... which is not a new thing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2023)

Slime said:



			It's called squad rotation ....................... which is not a new thing.
		
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Does it take away from him not really delivering so far since he arrived ? Some players getting a lot of scrutiny since they arrived yet Antony who stats show has been worse seems to be under the radar when it comes to the flops ?


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Does it take away from him not really delivering so far since he arrived ? Some players getting a lot of scrutiny since they arrived yet Antony who stats show has been worse seems to be under the radar when it comes to the flops ?
		
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I don't think he's been a flop and stop waving the price tag around, he didn't set it.
We all know he's only a £40M player, the over payment is down to the Glazers, not the player.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



*I see Man Utd have dropped their £90mil forward* who has only scored 3 all season -I’m surprised when the media are talking about flops of the season that he appears to have been ignored which is surprising as he was the most expensive signing of the summer

And the Arsenal Newcastle game - when the heck did they allow Maddely to ref a Prem game again , must be odds on for a red card this game now
		
Click to expand...


hes injured isnt he?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610375281327624193


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

fundy said:



			hes injured isnt he?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610375281327624193

Click to expand...

I believe so.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2023)

Slime said:



			I don't think he's been a flop and stop waving the price tag around, he didn't set it.
We all know he's only a £40M player, the over payment is down to the Glazers, not the player.
		
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No player sets their price tag but that doesn’t mean it can’t be assigned to them - when you pay big money for a player then surely you expect him to deliver ? Can’t blame the Glazers for that , they didn’t buy him did they ? 


fundy said:



			hes injured isnt he?
		
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no idea - just saw on social media  he was in line to be dropped

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...ed-news-Antony-Bournemouth-Premier-League/amp


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No player sets their price tag but that doesn’t mean it can’t be assigned to them - when you pay big money for a player then surely you expect him to deliver ? *Can’t blame the Glazers for that , they didn’t buy him did they ?*

Click to expand...

Yes.


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I see Man Utd have dropped their £90mil forward who has only scored 3 all season -I’m surprised when the media are talking about flops of the season that he appears to have been ignored which is surprising as he was the most expensive signing of the summer
		
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Not sure he can play every game, Phil. And with a busy fixture list in the weeks ahead, this evening is a sensible time to leave him out, in the event he isn’t actually injured.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2023)

Slime said:



			Yes.
		
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Are the owners buying your players ? 

When did that start ? Surely the manager has a say ?


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are the owners buying your players ?

When did that start ? Surely the manager has a say ?
		
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1. The manager has a say.
2. The club owners buy them.
3. That started when the club was formed.
4. It's not rocket science.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2023)

Slime said:



			1. The manager has a say.
2. The club owners buy them.
3. That started when the club was formed.
4. It's not rocket science.
		
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Are you being a bit literal here - do the owners not give the budget for the recruitment team to work under via football director or CEO.

You can’t blame the Glazers for the club buying Antony or indeed any signing.

I suspect they aren’t getting praise for going out and buying Casemiro


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 3, 2023)

Think I’d be taking Xhaka off before he’s sent off.
Also if Saka could manage 1 more shot on target that’d be great.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you being a bit literal here - do the owners not give the budget for the recruitment team to work under via football director or CEO.

You can’t blame the Glazers for the club buying Antony or indeed any signing.

I suspect they aren’t getting praise for going out and buying Casemiro
		
Click to expand...

The Glazers shouldn't get praise for anything other than putting the club up for sale.
They are financial rapists.
I really worry about who they'll sell the club to.


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## BrianM (Jan 3, 2023)

Everton 😳😳😳


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

P45 to Goodison Park plse..............


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

This has to be the end for Lampard, surely.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 3, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you being a bit literal here - do the owners not give the budget for the recruitment team to work under via football director or CEO.

You can’t blame the Glazers for the club buying Antony or indeed any signing.

I suspect they aren’t getting praise for going out and buying Casemiro
		
Click to expand...

Seems like you have a lot more to say tonight. Being critical of a Man Utd player before match has even started, but not a lot to say when Liverpool play like they did last night.

Players are normally dropped when they are injured.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

fundy said:



			P45 to Goodison Park plse..............
		
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one for Maddeley at the Emirates too lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2023)

fundy said:



			P45 to Goodison Park plse..............
		
Click to expand...

Not sure there is any managers left for them to try 🤷‍♂️ maybe it’s time for Steve Bruce


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2023)

Ref in the Gunners game is a joke.
JL got the ball, booked.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 3, 2023)

Referee is losing the plot at Arsenal.

Arsenal are 5 yards quicker all over the pitch though...not sure there is much in this game for Newcastle...struggling to put two passes together.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

hows that not a penalty VAR????????????


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

nickjdavis said:



			Referee is losing the plot at Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

I really don't know who I want to win that match, it's a conundrum alright.


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## Orikoru (Jan 3, 2023)

Lampard sacked in the morning then.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 3, 2023)

Frank L going to be the first managerial casualty of 2023?


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2023)

Slime said:



			I really don't know who I want to win that match, it's a conundrum alright.
		
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The ref will decide this one I think.
A stupid penalty maybe ,but at which end


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

And what a good goal it was, too!


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

I was just thinking a goal from Luke Shaw would be nice for my FL, and my prayers have been answered. Chuck in a clean sheet and I might just add him to the 2023 Christmas card list.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			I was just thinking a goal from Luke Shaw would be nice for my FL, and my prayers have been answered. Chuck in a clean sheet and I might just add him to the 2023 Christmas card list.
		
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He also puts us just one point behind the noisy neighbours.
The world's gone mad, I tell you, absolutely bonkers mental!


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## Piece (Jan 3, 2023)

Seems this Ars - New game is more about getting someone carded than scoring 

I did get side tracked watching that amazing leg in the darts final


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 3, 2023)




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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

If Arsenal don’t win the title this season the answer lies with what they have on the bench. This squad is too thin to last the course over 38 games.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

GOWTFG


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

3rd in the league and time wasting from 60 mins gone


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2023)

nickjdavis said:



			Frank L going to be the first managerial casualty of 2023?
		
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Hope not - he is doing a cracking job


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

fundy said:



			GOWTFG
		
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??????

Just saw your following post and worked it out.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

Great save Pope


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

Hows there only 5 minutes lol, such a joke


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## nickjdavis (Jan 3, 2023)

fundy said:



*3rd in the league* and time wasting from 60 mins gone
		
Click to expand...

That bit is irrelevant....what tonight is showing is that no matter what progress we have made this season, we are still some way behind the best teams in the PL. Havent been in the game at all.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 3, 2023)

Arteta is thoroughly unlikeable on the touchline.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

Fair play to Newcastle, very organised and street wise side, came for 0-0 and got it. thought we played OK but just didnt create enough. Some tired looking bodies (on both sides)

Whoever thought Maddeley should be anywhere near a game between 2 of the top 3 needs sacking mind!

If we didnt know where we need a few more bodies for the rest of the season its even clearer after tonight, whether we can get them at an ok price is a different matter

Arteta doing himself no favours


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

nickjdavis said:



			Arteta is thoroughly unlikeable on the touchline.
		
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Isn't he just.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 3, 2023)

nickjdavis said:



			Arteta is thoroughly unlikeable on the touchline.
		
Click to expand...

He is awful 

And he has pushed it into arsenal it's a shame to see.

I mean that "pen" call there was a chance to carry on and play but they were too busy letting ball go out to hound the ref 

Could have played on and if it was a pen it would be given anyways. Try and attack ..


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## Piece (Jan 3, 2023)

nickjdavis said:



			Arteta is thoroughly unlikeable on the touchline.
		
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He's being a bit of a 🔔 🔚


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

That's the way to finish a game!


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## paddyc (Jan 3, 2023)

Great defensive display  by Newcastle and frustrated us. Apart from the save from Gabby I can't remember  Pope being tested. It's still a point and in a good position. Next couple of games crucial.


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

Slime said:



View attachment 45815


That's the way to finish a game!
		
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Nooooooo. I had 2-0 in my Super 6. 🤬


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

A very comfortable victory.
Rashford scores .......................... again.
Another clean sheet, this time with Maguire and Lindelof!  
Level with Newcastle having played a game less.
Brentford schooling Liverpool yesterday.
Luke Shaw was absolutely superb tonight.
Going to have an absolutely banging cup of tea.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

No comment from Eddie Howe about a side time wasting in his interview tonight then lol. Assume it only works one way? 

Or is it only free season on one manger tonight?


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

Slime said:



			A very comfortable victory.
Rashford scores .......................... again.
Another clean sheet, this time with Maguire and Lindelof!  
Level with Newcastle having played a game less.
Brentford schooling Liverpool yesterday.
Luke Shaw was absolutely superb tonight.
Going to have an absolutely banging cup of tea.
		
Click to expand...

Got some momentum, defensively looking solid, and goals from different positions. I’m certainly enjoying this season more than my Liverpool supporting mates.

We look more like a team than we have done in years. That’s down to getting rid of the right players as much as it is bringing new signings in. No Pogba, Lingard and Ronaldo, and the atmosphere in that squad is a world away from what it was a year ago.

I’m thoroughly enjoying this season.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			Got some momentum, defensively looking solid, and goals from different positions. I’m certainly enjoying this season more than my Liverpool supporting mates.

We look more like a team than we have done in years. That’s down to getting rid of the right players as much as it is bringing new signings in. No Pogba, Lingard and Ronaldo, and the atmosphere in that squad is a world away from what it was a year ago.

I’m thoroughly enjoying this season.
		
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I think Ten Hag's an absolute revelation .................................... and very much the boss.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2023)

Fair shout 🤷‍♂️ guess he must have been listening to Jenas


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2023)

Genuine question for the Utd fans.

At last things are heading in the right direction for Utd. What was the straw that broke the camels back re the Glaziers seeming to change direction in how the club is run. TH is being backed and he is showing to be the man.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			Genuine question for the Utd fans.

At last things are heading in the right direction for Utd. What was the straw that broke the camels back re the Glaziers seeming to change direction in how the club is run. TH is being backed and he is showing to be the man.
		
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I think they are backing him in order to maximise the sale price of the club.
It's easier to sell a club trending in the correct direction for maximum dollar, compared to a struggling club in a mid-table wilderness.


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

Slime said:



			I think Ten Hag's an absolute revelation .................................... and very much the boss.
		
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Liked him from the outset. He’s a no nonsense fella with a clear vision of what he wants from his players and, most importantly, those players appear to understand what is being asked of them. Last season they just looked totally confused.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2023)

Slime said:



			I think they are backing him in order to maximise the sale price of the club.
It's easier to sell a club trending in the correct direction for maximum dollar, compared to a struggling club in a mid-table wilderness.
		
Click to expand...

I cannot argue with that in any way shape or form, but if they had done this a few years back the club may well be worth a few billion more.. 👍


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2023)

Slime said:



			I think they are backing him in order to maximise the sale price of the club.
It's easier to sell a club trending in the correct direction for maximum dollar, compared to a struggling club in a mid-table wilderness.
		
Click to expand...

Guess it depends on the price - if Utd start to recover the price may go up - a struggling team may have a few dollars off it but the biggest issue any Utd buyer has is the stadium situation 



Billysboots said:



			Liked him from the outset. He’s a no nonsense fella with a clear vision of what he wants from his players and, most importantly, those players appear to understand what is being asked of them. Last season they just looked totally confused.
		
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It makes the decision to keep with OGS even more baffling - get a proven manager in , results will improve.


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			Genuine question for the Utd fans.

At last things are heading in the right direction for Utd. What was the straw that broke the camels back re the Glaziers seeming to change direction in how the club is run. TH is being backed and he is showing to be the man.
		
Click to expand...

The club couldn’t carry on down the same path it has been travelling for so many years. It simply couldn’t.

And whilst there may be an element of truth in the suggestion that the Glazers wanted to maximise the value of their assets, I actually think that is giving them rather too much credit. The way the club is now being run is more, in my opinion, down to the manager.

I’ve said it here many times now, I’m absolutely convinced the delay in announcing ten Hag’s appointment was a direct result of him telling the club what his terms were. I genuinely believe he would not have taken the job if the structures in place had remained the same.

So if, as seems now likely, there has been a fundamental change in how the club as a whole is run, I give the credit for that to ten Hag. Not the Glazer family.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2023)

fundy said:



			No comment from Eddie Howe about a side time wasting in his interview tonight then lol. Assume it only works one way?

Or is it only free season on one manger tonight? 

Click to expand...

Makes me laugh when anyone involved in footy complains about time wasting!
We know they will do it when it suits them.
Everyone does it !


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## Bratty (Jan 3, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			Makes me laugh when anyone involved in footy complains about time wasting!
We know they will do it when it suits them.
Everyone does it !
		
Click to expand...

It's the main reason I find myself becoming more and more disillusioned with football these days. Time wasting has been taken to a whole new level (and I include my own team in this at times, although normally we cant afford to waste time cos were chasing a draw!): players holding a board meetings huddle after a goal is scored, subs not leaving the pitch at the nearest point, 3 players back and forth none of whom then take the throw in, goalkeepers taking forever to take a goal kick, etc. It's just a joke! People conplain about an NFL game taking too long, but there's not nearly as much time-wasting permitted by the game itself, which I love.
Add on the ridiculous hurling around "injured", the abuse of the referee and the 5-6 yard gains for throw ins, and I'm almost done with football.
The other minor reason for my disillusionment is I'm a Spurs fan! 🤦‍♂️🤣


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2023)

Bratty said:



			It's the main reason I find myself becoming more and more disillusioned with football these days. Time wasting has been taken to a whole new level (and I include my own team in this at times, although normally we cant afford to waste time cos were chasing a draw!): players holding a board meetings huddle after a goal is scored, subs not leaving the pitch at the nearest point, 3 players back and forth none of whom then take the throw in, goalkeepers taking forever to take a goal kick, etc. It's just a joke! People conplain about an NFL game taking too long, but there's not nearly as much time-wasting permitted by the game itself, which I love.
Add on the ridiculous hurling around "injured", the abuse of the referee and the 5-6 yard gains for throw ins, and I'm almost done with football.
The other minor reason for my disillusionment is I'm a Spurs fan! 🤦‍♂️🤣
		
Click to expand...

All this could be sorted with a time keeper.
Just don’t understand footballs thinking process.

On your last point you have my sympathy


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## GG26 (Jan 4, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			Makes me laugh when anyone involved in footy complains about time wasting!
We know they will do it when it suits them.
Everyone does it !
		
Click to expand...

Was at the King Power this evening and I appreciate that any team ahead is going to waste time, but this evening it was becoming a farce.  With 20 minutes to go it was play for one minute, followed by a Fulham player lying on the ground holding his head forcing Martin Atkinson to stop play, player gets up perfectly fine, play for one minute then different player goes down holding his head. This must have happened 5 times in 10 mins.  It only stopped when 30 seconds after a restart Mitrovich went down and the ref went over and pulled him to his feet and made it clear the medics were not coming on this time. Got 7 mins injury time, although he played exactly 7, during which he booked the keeper for timewasting!

As for the game, Leicester were dire for the first 20 mins, after which we completely dominated, but wasted some good chances.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 4, 2023)

Slime said:



			I think Ten Hag's an absolute revelation .................................... and very much the boss.
		
Click to expand...

There’s no doubt he is the boss.
We’ve turned a small corner,but a long way to go.
We need to sell ,we need to buy world class players to compete at the top table.
Let’s hope we keep trending in the right direction.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 4, 2023)

Did anyone see the incident involving DVB last night.
Could have easily broke his leg purely by accident .
Felt for him as he actually started.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 4, 2023)




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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 4, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			Makes me laugh when anyone involved in footy complains about time wasting!
We know they will do it when it suits them.
Everyone does it !
		
Click to expand...

The officials knocked it on the head at the World Cup pretty well. 9 minutes added time in each half soon puts a stop to time wasting. The officials here could do the same if they wanted to stop it.

I was expecting about 9-10 minutes for the 2nd half of the arsenal game last night, the 5 that was shown was laughable.


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## Slime (Jan 4, 2023)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The officials knocked it on the head at the World Cup pretty well. 9 minutes added time in each half soon puts a stop to time wasting. The officials here could do the same if they wanted to stop it.

I was expecting about 9-10 minutes for the 2nd half of the arsenal game last night, *the 5 that was shown was laughable.*

Click to expand...

Arteta didn't appear to find it laughable!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 4, 2023)

Slime said:



			Arteta didn't appear to find it laughable! 

Click to expand...

He spent the whole game out of control, too many pre match Haribo's. The 4th official should have had him up in the stands by half time.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 4, 2023)

Slime said:



			Arteta didn't appear to find it laughable! 

Click to expand...

It is why I dislike Arteta. There is no getting round the fact that he is doing really well with Arsenal this season. But, he becomes an emotional wreck on the sidelines at times. He, and his players, looked out of control at the end of that game. It is the sort of behaviour that makes me think he is getting nervous, about not letting things slip. And, if he acts like that, I wonder if the players and fans might get a bit more twitchy when things might not be going their way?

Don't get me wrong, I like a bit of emotion on the touchline, or at least a presence where there is a belief the manager / coach knows what is going on, knows how to instruct his players and change things if necessary. But, I don't like to see a mixture of Gordon Ramsey / Michael Flatley prancing up and down the touchline.


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## AmandaJR (Jan 4, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			Makes me laugh when anyone involved in footy complains about time wasting!
We know they will do it when it suits them.
Everyone does it !
		
Click to expand...

I'll raise you cynical fouls! Same...


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## Aztecs27 (Jan 4, 2023)

I'm cautiously optimistic about Forest's chances tonight. We're WELL overdue a decent performance away from home and things start to be clicking. A win could see us up as high as 15th, which would be massive considering where we started. 

I also expect to see Scarpa for the first time tonight, which is very exciting as I think he could really change our attack for the better.


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## Orikoru (Jan 4, 2023)

Bratty said:



			It's the main reason I find myself becoming more and more disillusioned with football these days. Time wasting has been taken to a whole new level (and I include my own team in this at times, although normally we cant afford to waste time cos were chasing a draw!): players holding a board meetings huddle after a goal is scored, subs not leaving the pitch at the nearest point, 3 players back and forth none of whom then take the throw in, goalkeepers taking forever to take a goal kick, etc. It's just a joke! People conplain about an NFL game taking too long, but there's not nearly as much time-wasting permitted by the game itself, which I love.
Add on the ridiculous hurling around "injured", the abuse of the referee and the 5-6 yard gains for throw ins, and I'm almost done with football.
The other minor reason for my disillusionment is I'm a Spurs fan! 🤦‍♂️🤣
		
Click to expand...

In the World Cup they were adding 8, 10 whatever minutes of stoppage time at the end, and I think most people were all for it as it was a more accurate portrayal of how much time was actually wasted. And wasting time was less beneficial as it just means you have to defend for a whole ten minutes longer. Would like to see that adopted in the Premier League, but I imagine it's one of those things where they won't change tact half-way through a season. Maybe implement it for next season.


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## Orikoru (Jan 4, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			It is why I dislike Arteta. There is no getting round the fact that he is doing really well with Arsenal this season. But, he becomes an emotional wreck on the sidelines at times. He, and his players, looked out of control at the end of that game. It is the sort of behaviour that makes me think he is getting nervous, about not letting things slip. And, if he acts like that, I wonder if the players and fans might get a bit more twitchy when things might not be going their way?

Don't get me wrong, I like a bit of emotion on the touchline, or at least a presence where there is a belief the manager / coach knows what is going on, knows how to instruct his players and change things if necessary. But, I don't like to see a mixture of Gordon Ramsey / Michael Flatley prancing up and down the touchline.
		
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He's an insufferable scumbag. Took the biscuit for me a few months back when he picked up one of his injured players who was just off the sideline and dropped him back on the pitch! I honestly can't stand him.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 4, 2023)

Orikoru said:



			In the World Cup they were adding 8, 10 whatever minutes of stoppage time at the end, and I think most people were all for it as it was a more accurate portrayal of how much time was actually wasted. And wasting time was less beneficial as it just means you have to defend for a whole ten minutes longer. Would like to see that adopted in the Premier League, but I imagine it's one of those things where they won't change tact half-way through a season. Maybe implement it for next season.
		
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Agreed. The excuse not to, apparently, is that match going fans will miss their trains home? If that is true, they don't seem to mind in cup games when games can go to extra time and penalties. Also, if a team is wasting time, I bet if you ask their opponent's fans if they would like a large amount of additional time, they would say yes. When a large number is displayed on the board, you usually get big cheers from the fans of the team looking for a goal.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 4, 2023)

Head injury just let the phisio come on straight away.
Only stop the game if they get in the way.
Playing a man down then so might just stop it.


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## Orikoru (Jan 4, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			Agreed. The excuse not to, apparently, *is that match going fans will miss their trains home?* If that is true, they don't seem to mind in cup games when games can go to extra time and penalties. Also, if a team is wasting time, I bet if you ask their opponent's fans if they would like a large amount of additional time, they would say yes. When a large number is displayed on the board, you usually get big cheers from the fans of the team looking for a goal.
		
Click to expand...

By 6 or 7 minutes? Just scrap the 8 o'clock kick-offs and make them 7.30. Oops, can't do that and upset the Sky Sports overlords.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 4, 2023)

Orikoru said:



			By 6 or 7 minutes? Just scrap the 8 o'clock kick-offs and make them 7.30. Oops, can't do that and upset the Sky Sports overlords.
		
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They'll probably then say fans will struggle to get to the game after work 

In all honesty, I can't see it upsetting Sky or BT, as they are dedicated sports channels, with multi channels. They often speak at least an hour after the game anyway, and an hour before it, so I don't see a broadcast issue. Could maybe see it a little more for the World Cup, when BBC or ITV had to schedule in the News, Coronation Street or EastEnders after the football. But, it was all OK.

I was definitely a big fan of adding over 10 minutes to games if time wasting was suspected. Even better, if another rule was implemented that, it more than x minutes is added on due to time wasting alone, teams can suffer warnings / fines


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2023)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610572096928886784
Seems a strange situation- we apparently were going for him in the summer but they weren’t sure about him 

He goes to Wolves - hasn’t played many 90 mins and seems we have sorted it for next summer 🤷‍♂️ - can only think it is down to the Non HG issue


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			It is why I dislike Arteta. There is no getting round the fact that he is doing really well with Arsenal this season. But, he becomes an emotional wreck on the sidelines at times. He, and his players, looked out of control at the end of that game. *It is the sort of behaviour that makes me think he is getting nervous, about not letting things slip. And, if he acts like that, I wonder if the players and fans might get a bit more twitchy when things might not be going their way?*

Don't get me wrong, I like a bit of emotion on the touchline, or at least a presence where there is a belief the manager / coach knows what is going on, knows how to instruct his players and change things if necessary. But, I don't like to see a mixture of Gordon Ramsey / Michael Flatley prancing up and down the touchline.
		
Click to expand...

This all day long, what I don’t understand about him is that the Current situation he is in at the top of the league.He has been there with City. So why do you start wobbling the steady ship. From an Arsenal point of view, hopefully Zinchenko and Jesus will tell the players to calm down.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 4, 2023)

Should be the first game back tonight for Emi Martinez since his return from World Cup celebrations!

Optimistic for tonight's game, Villa look much better under Emery but a few injuries in the last game might leave us a bit weak in midfield. 

Seeing rumors linking Ings with a move away today too, would be a shame to see him leave in Jan but I think his high wages being off the books might enable a signing or two for Emery so it may have to happen!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2023)

Can any of the West Ham fans explain what’s happening with stadium and how the heck they managed to get the deal they did ?

so they took on a 99 years lease

The cost is only £3mil a year to lease

The stadium is losing money every single year and it seems the full cost is now over £1bn 

Naming rights still having been sorted to help offset costs and for the redevelopment to take it to a full working stadium they only had to pay £20mil out of the £200mil costs ?!? 

Who the hell took a back hander for that deal - someone somewhere must be laughing their head off


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## Bdill93 (Jan 4, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can any of the West Ham fans explain what’s happening with stadium and how the heck they managed to get the deal they did ?

so they took on a 99 years lease

The cost is only £3mil a year to lease

The stadium is losing money every single year and it seems the full cost is now over £1bn

Naming rights still having been sorted to help offset costs and for the redevelopment to take it to a full working stadium they only had to pay £20mil out of the £200mil costs ?!?

Who the hell took a back hander for that deal - someone somewhere must be laughing their head off
		
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Pretty genius from the owners, but easily the worst stadium in the league to visit IMO


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 4, 2023)

Bdill93 said:



			Should be the first game back tonight for Emi Martinez since his return from World Cup celebrations!

Optimistic for tonight's game, Villa look much better under Emery but a few injuries in the last game might leave us a bit weak in midfield.

*Seeing rumors linking Ings with a move away today* too, would be a shame to see him leave in Jan but I think his high wages being off the books might enable a signing or two for Emery so it may have to happen!
		
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Can we have him at Everton please? I'll pick him up. I'll even pay for his drive thru on the way back.

Ultimately there isn't space for him and Watkins and at some point the manager has to make a choice. Either are too pricey, for most clubs, to leave on the bench so it makes sense to lose one set of wages to spread elsewhere. Such is life for most clubs outside of the elite.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 4, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can any of the West Ham fans explain what’s happening with stadium and how the heck they managed to get the deal they did ?

so they took on a 99 years lease

The cost is only £3mil a year to lease

The stadium is losing money every single year and it seems the full cost is now over £1bn

Naming rights still having been sorted to help offset costs and for the redevelopment to take it to a full working stadium they only had to pay £20mil out of the £200mil costs ?!?

Who the hell took a back hander for that deal - someone somewhere must be laughing their head off
		
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It's obscene but it was also a white elephant after the Olympics. The biggest error was in the build when they insisted that part of the post Olympic legacy was that it would have to host athletics meets still. That put most football clubs off and meant it was left without anyone to take it on. I guess the authorities thought £3m a year was better than nothing. Not sure they were right but they clearly panicked. The only saving grace is as per @Bdill93 , it's left West Ham with an unloved stadium to play in.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 4, 2023)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can we have him at Everton please? I'll pick him up. I'll even pay for his drive thru on the way back.

Ultimately there isn't space for him and Watkins and at some point the manager has to make a choice. Either are too pricey, for most clubs, to leave on the bench so it makes sense to lose one set of wages to spread elsewhere. Such is life for most clubs outside of the elite.
		
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Well Ings was brought in under Dean Smith (deffo a panic buy a just before we sold JG) and I thought he would be more prolific than he has been, but he's never had a long run of starting games and cant match Watkins in work rate - I think Unai has made it pretty clear who his starter is when both fully fit.

Issue I have is, we're linked to be loaning out our 3rd choice ST - Cameron Archer - and if we sold Ings we would be mega short up top!

Happily see him go if he can be replaced younger/ cheaper, he is too good to warm a bench and he's wasting his last few years if he doesn't make a move.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 4, 2023)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's obscene but it was also a white elephant after the Olympics. The biggest error was in the build when they insisted that part of the post Olympic legacy was that it would have to host athletics meets still. That put most football clubs off and meant it was left without anyone to take it on. I guess the authorities thought £3m a year was better than nothing. Not sure they were right but they clearly panicked. The only saving grace is as per @Bdill93 , it's left West Ham with an unloved stadium to play in.
		
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Horrible football stadium, top athletics stadium


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## IanM (Jan 4, 2023)

Bdill93 said:



			Horrible football stadium, top athletics stadium 

Click to expand...

Brother is a West Ham season ticket holder.  When they moved in, I got him a pair of Opera Glasses for his birthday!


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## Billysboots (Jan 4, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			This all day long, what I don’t understand about him is that the Current situation he is in at the top of the league.He has been there with City. So why do you start wobbling the steady ship. From an Arsenal point of view, hopefully Zinchenko and Jesus will tell the players to calm down.
		
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I always liked Arteta. But Arsenal have been at the top of the table for a relatively brief period of time and, already, the sense of entitlement and belief that the world is against him and his team are already very evident. I always thought he was better than that.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 4, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610572096928886784
Seems a strange situation- we apparently were going for him in the summer but they weren’t sure about him

He goes to Wolves - hasn’t played many 90 mins and seems we have sorted it for next summer 🤷‍♂️ - can only think it is down to the Non HG issue
		
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So are Liverpool going to buy every Nunez(s) they can, until they find one that works?


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			I always liked Arteta. But Arsenal have been at the top of the table for a relatively brief period of time and, already, the sense of entitlement and belief that the world is against him and his team are already very evident. I always thought he was better than that.
		
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I mentioned the other day a few Arsenal fans have been loud and noticeable of late on social media. I think Billy we both know it’s a bit early in the season for that.
All that said, the Geordie fans are polar opposite, probably like me/ city when the Arabs first bought City. Cannot quite believe what is going on. Chuffed to bits for them.

PS.

Rip Mr Gold.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2023)

nickjdavis said:



			So are Liverpool going to buy every Nunez(s) they can, until they find one that works?
		
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The current one Darwin is working 👍 - a bit of fine tuning and he will be superb for us


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2023)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's obscene but it was also a white elephant after the Olympics. The biggest error was in the build when they insisted that part of the post Olympic legacy was that it would have to host athletics meets still. That put most football clubs off and meant it was left without anyone to take it on. I guess the authorities thought £3m a year was better than nothing. Not sure they were right but they clearly panicked. The only saving grace is as per @Bdill93 , it's left West Ham with an unloved stadium to play in.
		
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I could not understand the philosophy behind the keep it as a track policy. Countless Olympics have a shocking post stadium legacy. Yet look at Man City in the council house. It’s been a blessing compared to Maine rd. Be even better when it is full one day 😁


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## Bdill93 (Jan 4, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The current one Darwin is working 👍 - a bit of fine tuning and he will be superb for us
		
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I get the same feeling tbh, watching him play he's so close to being insanely good, he's just not a natural finisher....yet


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2023)

Bdill93 said:



			I get the same feeling tbh, watching him play he's so close to being insanely good, he's just not a natural finisher....yet
		
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Yep that’s exactly it - his pace and awareness is superb , think his assists are climbing each game and his movement is brilliant 

He just needs to be a bit more composed


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## Bdill93 (Jan 4, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep that’s exactly it - his pace and awareness is superb , think his assists are climbing each game and his movement is brilliant

He just needs to be a bit more composed
		
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He probably could have had 5 goals since the restart just in 1v1's. Clearly something there.

I think Haaland bagging for fun hasn't helped him either, but that man is just built different.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			PS.

Rip Mr Gold.
		
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Always a fan of Mr gold. Unlike Sullivan (who claimed he was a life long fan) gold actually was and he just seemed a nice guy.

Friends with the owner of my old golf club, used to visit by helicopter lol 

Rip


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2023)

Bdill93 said:



			He probably could have had 5 goals since the restart just in 1v1's. Clearly something there.

I think Haaland bagging for fun hasn't helped him either, but that man is just built different.
		
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People where always going to compare the two - the charity shield prob didn’t help as well but whilst he won’t score as heavily as Haaland he is going to certainly have more assists and he fair share of goals - he just always seems to be in the game


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## nickjdavis (Jan 4, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The current one Darwin is working 👍 - a bit of fine tuning and he will be superb for us
		
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I know...he does look tasty....was hoping that Newcastle might have stumped up some cash for him before he went to Liverpool.....but you should never let the opportunity for a sly dig to slide by.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 4, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep that’s exactly it - his pace and awareness is superb , think his assists are climbing each game and his movement is brilliant

He just needs to be a bit more composed
		
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His finishing is a bit wild, but sure he will come good.
I like him his work rate is high.
Just needs to curb the silly bookings and calm down a bit.


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## Billysboots (Jan 4, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The current one Darwin is working 👍 - a bit of fine tuning and he will be superb for us
		
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I actually agree entirely. But I’m still going to have fun at his expense every time he misses a sitter. As a United fan it would be wrong of me to pass up such heaven sent opportunities. 😇


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2023)

Good old Ronaldo enjoying his time in South Africa 😂😂😂👍

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-64161433


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## Fade and Die (Jan 4, 2023)

pauljames87 said:



			Always a fan of Mr gold. Unlike Sullivan (who claimed he was a life long fan) gold actually was and he just seemed a nice guy.

Friends with the owner of my old golf club, used to visit by helicopter lol

Rip
		
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Indeed, Whatever you thought of him, he was a real supporter and whilst sad it is a decent age.

Will be interesting to see how it changes the dynamic of ownership now, even though his shares had passed to his family.


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## Slime (Jan 4, 2023)

Bdill93 said:



			I get the same feeling tbh, watching him play he's so close to being insanely good, he's just not a natural finisher....yet
		
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He reminds me a bit of our Diego Forlan.
I think, and I hope I'm wrong, that, given time, he'll be a fantastic striker.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 4, 2023)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610610374302105603
😂😂


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2023)

Fade and Die said:



			Indeed, Whatever you thought of him, he was a real supporter and whilst sad it is a decent age.

Will be interesting to see how it changes the dynamic of ownership now, even though his shares had passed to his family.
		
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Never had issue with gold tbh. Thought he was just a money man. Sullivan is the worst. Claims a fan.  Likes to play manager 

Gold just seemed a nice guy who helped save his boyhood club


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## Fade and Die (Jan 4, 2023)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's obscene but it was also a white elephant after the Olympics. The biggest error was in the build when they insisted that part of the post Olympic legacy was that it would have to host athletics meets still. That put most football clubs off and meant it was left without anyone to take it on. I guess the authorities thought £3m a year was better than nothing. Not sure they were right but they clearly panicked. The only saving grace is as per @Bdill93 , it's left West Ham with an unloved stadium to play in.
		
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It always gets overlooked that West Ham were lined up to buy the stadium outright until Tottenham threatened to take the legacy committee to the European court. 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2007608/amp/Tottenham-appeal-Olympic-Stadium.html

So a lease deal was made instead. A fantastic deal was done by the Baroness, which she picked up a great bonus for.

Spurs had the right idea, kick the athletics out, pull the stadium down and build a proper football ground.

So Sullivan saved the thing becoming an embarrassing white elephant for the government and at the same time destroyed the very heart of the club he claimed to love by flogging Upton Park. An unforgivable act. 

My view now 17 rows from the front is excellent, however when I was 53 rows back in the upper tier it was like watching subuteo.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2023)

Fade and Die said:



			It always gets overlooked that West Ham were lined up to buy the stadium outright until Tottenham threatened to take the legacy committee to the European court. 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2007608/amp/Tottenham-appeal-Olympic-Stadium.html

So a lease deal was made instead. A fantastic deal was done by the Baroness, which she picked up a great bonus for.

Spurs had the right idea, kick the athletics out, pull the stadium down and build a proper football ground.

So Sullivan saved the thing becoming an embarrassing white elephant for the government and at the same time destroyed the very heart of the club he claimed to love by flogging Upton Park. An unforgivable act. 

My view now 17 rows from the front is excellent, however when I was 53 rows back in the upper tier it was like watching subuteo.
		
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In summary.. spurs were to blame that it went to lease not buy 

Lord coe was to blame for it being an athletics legacy when it is a waste 

And former mayor of London aka floppy moron is to blame for his crack negation team

I mean we can't buy or sell players reasonably.. so how we can pull off that? Must be proper idiots the other side of the table


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## Fade and Die (Jan 4, 2023)

pauljames87 said:



			In summary.. spurs were to blame that it went to lease not buy

Lord coe was to blame for it being an athletics legacy when it is a waste

And former mayor of London aka floppy moron is to blame for his crack negation team

I mean we can't buy or sell players reasonably.. so how we can pull off that? Must be proper idiots the other side of the table
		
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Yes I think that’s it in a nut shell. 👍

Although you misspelt cack. 😁


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## fundy (Jan 4, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



*I mentioned the other day a few Arsenal fans have been loud and noticeable of late on social media. I think Billy we both know it’s a bit early in the season for that.*
All that said, the Geordie fans are polar opposite, probably like me/ city when the Arabs first bought City. Cannot quite believe what is going on. Chuffed to bits for them.

PS.

Rip Mr Gold.
		
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what do you expect, fans just to be quiet until theyve actually won it? long while since weve been competitve at the top of the table plenty of fans going to enjoy the ride, doesnt mean a lot of us dont expect us to win it

you know were going well when you see how much hatred there is from other fans not just the lot at the toilet bowl lol


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2023)

fundy said:



			what do you expect, fans just to be quiet until theyve actually won it? long while since weve been competitve at the top of the table plenty of fans going to enjoy the ride, doesnt mean a lot of us dont expect us to win it

you know were going well when you see how much hatred there is from other fans not just the lot at the toilet bowl lol
		
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Am not sure it is hatred, but as a City Fan watch rammel for a couple of generations Ave learned to be subtle. Should the Arsenal come second the banter will raise a few decibels, esp from the toilet bowl.Even if they finish mid table 😉


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## hairball_89 (Jan 4, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			Am not sure it is hatred, but as a City Fan watch rammel for a couple of generations Ave learned to be subtle. Should the Arsenal come second the banter will raise a few decibels, esp from the toilet bowl.Even if they finish mid table 😉
		
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City fans subtle? really?! Nonsense.

And I say this as a red who jumped fully onto the "unbearable" bandwagon when we won the CL and league in 2019&20. If you're top of the league at Christmas you're there for a reason and can shout about it. I don't care who you are, you're there because you deserve it and it feels great.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2023)

hairball_89 said:



			City fans subtle? really?! Nonsense.

And I say this as a red who jumped fully onto the "unbearable" bandwagon when we won the CL and league in 2019&20. If you're top of the league at Christmas you're there for a reason and can shout about it. I don't care who you are, you're there because you deserve it and it feels great.
		
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Heyup phil’s turned up in an “unbearable” post. 😂😂😂😂😂👍
When I talk of a City fan I mean me. I don’t talk of the thousands of empty seat fans😉. 
Out of interest when was the title last presented in December 🤔
Happy yes but unbearable er no.


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## Beezerk (Jan 4, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			All that said, the Geordie fans are polar opposite, probably like me/ city when the Arabs first bought City. Cannot quite believe what is going on.
		
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Mate try living up here, they are becoming very very unbearable 😮


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## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2023)

Beezerk said:



			Mate try living up here, they are becoming very very unbearable 😮
		
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Have they not discovered social media 😁 joking aside I have been on there ride about 10 years ago 👍 it’s brill 😁


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2023)

Naughty goal from scamacca, Leeds player misplayed pass to him but still had loads to do.. finished nicely from outside box .. post and in


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## adam6177 (Jan 4, 2023)

Hojberg 🤣😂😅


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2023)

That Summerville of Leeds. What a dirty little player 

Coufal takes him out (legally little block) didn't like it so 2 seconds later lands his studs on him 

Only a yellow 

Looking at his leg you can see stud marks all down his leg like claw marks from a bear.


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## fundy (Jan 4, 2023)

Expect we may have some happy Forest fans on here later


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## backwoodsman (Jan 4, 2023)

Problem is, cloud nine isn't connected to the Internet ...


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## hairball_89 (Jan 4, 2023)

backwoodsman said:



			Problem is, cloud nine isn't connected to the Internet ...
		
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I'm sure they'll find a way!


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## Aztecs27 (Jan 4, 2023)

fundy said:



			Expect we may have some happy Forest fans on here later 

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Scrappy game by all accounts but Scarpa looks on another level already and will happily take 3 points back to the City Ground! 

3 huge league games coming up vs other relegation rivals but a chance to reach the FA cup quarters and Carabao Semi’s first! 

Scarpa seeing passes from nowhere…

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610750204348858369


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## BiMGuy (Jan 4, 2023)

pauljames87 said:



			That Summerville of Leeds. What a dirty little player

Coufal takes him out (legally little block) didn't like it so 2 seconds later lands his studs on him

Only a yellow

Looking at his leg you can see stud marks all down his leg like claw marks from a bear.
		
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Just seen this incident. The Coufal challenge wasn’t great and Summerville has gone after him, but Coufal has mad a meal of it, there wasn’t that much contact.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 4, 2023)

Quality from Kane tonight, just what Spurs needed after a dodgy first half.


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## pauljames87 (Jan 4, 2023)

BiMGuy said:



			Just seen this incident. The Coufal challenge wasn’t great and Summerville has gone after him, but Coufal has mad a meal of it, there wasn’t that much contact.
		
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Have you not seen his leg?? He had to go off

Stud marks all down his knee


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## Orikoru (Jan 5, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			Quality from Kane tonight, just what Spurs needed after a dodgy first half.
		
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Everyone knows we don't bother playing in first halfs.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 5, 2023)

Anyone see Sol Campbells interview with GB News in relation to the Honours List? In it he said:


If you look at what I've done, and what I've gone through playing football and the consistency I've hit over the course of 2 decades, under severe pressure, I'm up there with some of the sporting greats of our country.
I'm not the only sporting great that has been overlooked. It would be an honour for me to have a Sir, OBE or MBE for my sport, which I've committed to for over 2 decades.
I ran a charity helping out disadvantaged kids from all over London, helping them kind of go to sporting events
I've done a hell of a lot for this country. I've been an icon. When I go abroad people recognise me for what I've done as a footballer. It would be nice if I could have something just saying hey, I've been recognised in my own country.
He also gave 9 reasons on twitter why he should be honoured, which were:


The 56 (Premier league) games without losing is an (individual) record
Invincible Arsenal team 49 games without losing (is) a record
First black player to score in World Cup for England
First black captain to lift a cup at Wembley
First black English speaking player to score in a Champions League final
Played 2 decades and over 500 games in the Premier League
I stood up for racism in football here and abroad
Only English player to play in 6 consecutive tournaments for England
Got into the World Cup best team 1998 and 2002 and one European team (in) 2004, so at one stage I was pound-for-pound the best defender in the world, how many Englishmen can say that?
Now, we can all argue how much many people that ARE honoured actually deserve it. Especially sporting people. They certainly end up, accidentally, being ambassadors for our country, and so if they achieve great things then I can see why they would be honoured. However, I'd like to think they don't beg to be honoured, and just politely accept it if it comes their way. I'm not sure if I have ever come across someone desperately blowing their own trumpet as Sol Campbell. He was a very good defender, but not sure I ever saw him quite as a Rolls Royce defender, personally (i.e. one that you don't often see in every generation). He won a lot with Arsenal, though he was in an unbelievable side. Never won the Champions League though, or any sort of success with England. I'm sure he has done a lot of charity work. However, when your net worth is £55 million, it is probably quite easy to get involved with charitable work (and I don't know too much about how much he is involved with, but I understand it helps to reduce tax burdens for the super rich).

He has certainly had a very good career. He may think he has done a lot for this country, but it hasn't all been personal sacrifice, especially if you include the £55 million he has earned.


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## Bdill93 (Jan 5, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			Anyone see Sol Campbells interview with GB News in relation to the Honours List? In it he said:


If you look at what I've done, and what I've gone through playing football and the consistency I've hit over the course of 2 decades, under severe pressure, I'm up there with some of the sporting greats of our country.
I'm not the only sporting great that has been overlooked. It would be an honour for me to have a Sir, OBE or MBE for my sport, which I've committed to for over 2 decades.
I ran a charity helping out disadvantaged kids from all over London, helping them kind of go to sporting events
I've done a hell of a lot for this country. I've been an icon. When I go abroad people recognise me for what I've done as a footballer. It would be nice if I could have something just saying hey, I've been recognised in my own country.
He also gave 9 reasons on twitter why he should be honoured, which were:


The 56 (Premier league) games without losing is an (individual) record
Invincible Arsenal team 49 games without losing (is) a record
First black player to score in World Cup for England
First black captain to lift a cup at Wembley
First black English speaking player to score in a Champions League final
Played 2 decades and over 500 games in the Premier League
I stood up for racism in football here and abroad
Only English player to play in 6 consecutive tournaments for England
Got into the World Cup best team 1998 and 2002 and one European team (in) 2004, so at one stage I was pound-for-pound the best defender in the world, how many Englishmen can say that?
Now, we can all argue how much many people that ARE honoured actually deserve it. Especially sporting people. They certainly end up, accidentally, being ambassadors for our country, and so if they achieve great things then I can see why they would be honoured. However, I'd like to think they don't beg to be honoured, and just politely accept it if it comes their way. I'm not sure if I have ever come across someone desperately blowing their own trumpet as Sol Campbell. He was a very good defender, but not sure I ever saw him quite as a Rolls Royce defender, personally (i.e. one that you don't often see in every generation). He won a lot with Arsenal, though he was in an unbelievable side. Never won the Champions League though, or any sort of success with England. I'm sure he has done a lot of charity work. However, when your net worth is £55 million, it is probably quite easy to get involved with charitable work (and I don't know too much about how much he is involved with, but I understand it helps to reduce tax burdens for the super rich).

He has certainly had a very good career. He may think he has done a lot for this country, but it hasn't all been personal sacrifice, especially if you include the £55 million he has earned.
		
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People get honours for so much less than he's done, I can kind of see why he would get annoyed but at the same time, would not personally care at all about some bs honours


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## Billysboots (Jan 5, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			Anyone see Sol Campbells interview with GB News in relation to the Honours List? In it he said:


If you look at what I've done, and what I've gone through playing football and the consistency I've hit over the course of 2 decades, under severe pressure, I'm up there with some of the sporting greats of our country.
I'm not the only sporting great that has been overlooked. It would be an honour for me to have a Sir, OBE or MBE for my sport, which I've committed to for over 2 decades.
I ran a charity helping out disadvantaged kids from all over London, helping them kind of go to sporting events
I've done a hell of a lot for this country. I've been an icon. When I go abroad people recognise me for what I've done as a footballer. It would be nice if I could have something just saying hey, I've been recognised in my own country.
He also gave 9 reasons on twitter why he should be honoured, which were:


The 56 (Premier league) games without losing is an (individual) record
Invincible Arsenal team 49 games without losing (is) a record
First black player to score in World Cup for England
First black captain to lift a cup at Wembley
First black English speaking player to score in a Champions League final
Played 2 decades and over 500 games in the Premier League
I stood up for racism in football here and abroad
Only English player to play in 6 consecutive tournaments for England
Got into the World Cup best team 1998 and 2002 and one European team (in) 2004, so at one stage I was pound-for-pound the best defender in the world, how many Englishmen can say that?
Now, we can all argue how much many people that ARE honoured actually deserve it. Especially sporting people. They certainly end up, accidentally, being ambassadors for our country, and so if they achieve great things then I can see why they would be honoured. However, I'd like to think they don't beg to be honoured, and just politely accept it if it comes their way. I'm not sure if I have ever come across someone desperately blowing their own trumpet as Sol Campbell. He was a very good defender, but not sure I ever saw him quite as a Rolls Royce defender, personally (i.e. one that you don't often see in every generation). He won a lot with Arsenal, though he was in an unbelievable side. Never won the Champions League though, or any sort of success with England. I'm sure he has done a lot of charity work. However, when your net worth is £55 million, it is probably quite easy to get involved with charitable work (and I don't know too much about how much he is involved with, but I understand it helps to reduce tax burdens for the super rich).

He has certainly had a very good career. He may think he has done a lot for this country, but it hasn't all been personal sacrifice, especially if you include the £55 million he has earned.
		
Click to expand...

Did he say why he thinks he’s been overlooked? Because anyone who has ever listened to Sol Campbell over the years will read the same into these comments as I have. 

Please understand I am in no way passing judgement, but him not being honoured is not his real issue here.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 5, 2023)

Sol Campbells the type that over plays the racism card.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 5, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			Did he say why he thinks he’s been overlooked? Because anyone who has ever listened to Sol Campbell over the years will read the same into these comments as I have.

Please understand I am in no way passing judgement, but him not being honoured is not his real issue here.
		
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I just quoted what was quoted in the Guardian, from his interview and twitter. If I was a betting man, I'm would not be surprised if he felt he was being overlooked because of race. Probably why 4 of his 9 justifications on twitter to be honoured are race related.

As I've said, I'm sure plenty have been honoured in the past where we've all thought "really!?", and no doubt the broader issue related to race and people being honoured should be looked at, to gauge how much racial bias / prejudice comes into the decision making.

However, I just don't think it looks good when the person themselves starts to big themselves up to tell us all why they deserve one. If anything, he probably doesn't deserve one, and many of the footballers who have, who he compares himself to, didn't deserve one either.


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## Orikoru (Jan 5, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			Now, we can all argue how much many people that ARE honoured actually deserve it. Especially sporting people. They certainly end up, accidentally, being ambassadors for our country, and so if they achieve great things then I can see why they would be honoured. However, I'd like to think they don't beg to be honoured, and just politely accept it if it comes their way. I'm not sure if I have ever come across someone desperately blowing their own trumpet as Sol Campbell.
		
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Yeah, he has PLENTY of form for this. He is ridiculously arrogant and pretentious, has a massively inflated opinion of himself. 

Scroll down to about halfway down this page where it says "Immodest Campbell lets his ego do the talking", it's pure class. 

He was a good player, but I think things like OBEs are handed out to sportsmen willy-nilly as it is. Would rather see less of them, not more. Harry Kane has an MBE, I have no idea why.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 5, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			Anyone see Sol Campbells interview with GB News in relation to the Honours List? In it he said:


If you look at what I've done, and what I've gone through playing football and the consistency I've hit over the course of 2 decades, under severe pressure, I'm up there with some of the sporting greats of our country.
I'm not the only sporting great that has been overlooked. It would be an honour for me to have a Sir, OBE or MBE for my sport, which I've committed to for over 2 decades.
I ran a charity helping out disadvantaged kids from all over London, helping them kind of go to sporting events
I've done a hell of a lot for this country. I've been an icon. When I go abroad people recognise me for what I've done as a footballer. It would be nice if I could have something just saying hey, I've been recognised in my own country.
He also gave 9 reasons on twitter why he should be honoured, which were:


The 56 (Premier league) games without losing is an (individual) record
Invincible Arsenal team 49 games without losing (is) a record
First black player to score in World Cup for England
First black captain to lift a cup at Wembley
First black English speaking player to score in a Champions League final
Played 2 decades and over 500 games in the Premier League
I stood up for racism in football here and abroad
Only English player to play in 6 consecutive tournaments for England
Got into the World Cup best team 1998 and 2002 and one European team (in) 2004, so at one stage I was pound-for-pound the best defender in the world, how many Englishmen can say that?
Now, we can all argue how much many people that ARE honoured actually deserve it. Especially sporting people. They certainly end up, accidentally, being ambassadors for our country, and so if they achieve great things then I can see why they would be honoured. However, I'd like to think they don't beg to be honoured, and just politely accept it if it comes their way. I'm not sure if I have ever come across someone desperately blowing their own trumpet as Sol Campbell. He was a very good defender, but not sure I ever saw him quite as a Rolls Royce defender, personally (i.e. one that you don't often see in every generation). He won a lot with Arsenal, though he was in an unbelievable side. Never won the Champions League though, or any sort of success with England. I'm sure he has done a lot of charity work. However, when your net worth is £55 million, it is probably quite easy to get involved with charitable work (and I don't know too much about how much he is involved with, but I understand it helps to reduce tax burdens for the super rich).

He has certainly had a very good career. He may think he has done a lot for this country, but it hasn't all been personal sacrifice, especially if you include the £55 million he has earned.
		
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He's a disgrace. up and down the country there are tens of thousands of people who volunteer their time in their community, helping people less fortunate than themselves, providing voluntary care services, working on cold winter nights in soup kitchens, running grass roots sports, I could go on....who do it through the goodness of their hearts and souls who would never even countenance thinking about any sort of honour or recognition...and then you have this muppet, 3 of who's 9 reasons why he should get an honour, are solely based on the colour of his skin...and one of the others is that he "stood up against (is the word I'm sure he really meant not "for") racism".

There are thousands of unseen and unheard people on this land who deserve just to have their contributions recognised or acknowledged for just 5 minutes but will never do so. Hopefully Sol Campbell will keep them company for a very long time.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 5, 2023)

nickjdavis said:



			He's a disgrace. up and down the country there are tens of thousands of people who volunteer their time in their community, helping people less fortunate than themselves, providing voluntary care services, working on cold winter nights in soup kitchens, running grass roots sports, I could go on....who do it through the goodness of their hearts and souls who would never even countenance thinking about any sort of honour or recognition...and then you have this muppet, 3 of who's 9 reasons why he should get an honour, are solely based on the colour of his skin...and one of the others is that he "stood up against (is the word I'm sure he really meant not "for") racism".

There are thousands of unseen and unheard people on this land who deserve just to have their contributions recognised or acknowledged for just 5 minutes but will never do so. Hopefully Sol Campbell will keep them company for a very long time.
		
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If I ever get knighted, I will happily donate my knighthood to Sol Campbell, in return for his £55 million. Everyone is a winner.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 5, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			If I ever get knighted, I will happily donate my knighthood to Sol Campbell, in return for his £55 million. Everyone is a winner.
		
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Honours for cash?

Hasn't that been an issue in previous years awards?


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 5, 2023)

I once helped an old lady get a box of pasta down from the shelf in the supermarket because she couldn't reach it. Can I have an MBE please?


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## nickjdavis (Jan 5, 2023)

ColchesterFC said:



			I once helped an old lady get a box of pasta down from the shelf in the supermarket because she couldn't reach it. Can I have an MBE please?
		
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No, because what she really wanted was rice.


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## IanM (Jan 5, 2023)

Good old Sol!   I think the way to ensure you don't get a gong, is go on about why you deserve one!


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 5, 2023)

Can’t understand why four of the Lionesses got gongs.

Why only four ?
Surely it’s all of them or none. Prefer none myself. 
Given how long it took to honour the 1966 England squad.

To many handed out for just doing the job your paid to do.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 5, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			If I ever get knighted, I will happily donate my knighthood to Sol Campbell, in return for his £55 million. Everyone is a winner.
		
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I’ll do it for half.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t understand why four of the Lionesses got gongs.

Why only four ?
Surely it’s all of them or none. Prefer none myself.
Given how long it took to honour the 1966 England squad.

To many handed out for just doing the job your paid to do.
		
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The four lionesses got it for more than just the Euros apparently


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 5, 2023)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The four lionesses got it for more than just the Euros apparently
		
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That’s half the problem imo.
Headlines say “Lionesses get gongs” but if they are getting them for something else why use the Lionesses headline.
I did wonder why only four.


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## Billysboots (Jan 5, 2023)

Orikoru said:



Scroll down to about halfway down this page where it says "Immodest Campbell lets his ego do the talking", it's pure class. 

Click to expand...

Yep. That’s Sol Campbell. Right there. What a womble.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 5, 2023)

👋 but I am Tash 😁

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/mar/28/duncan-edwards-original-boy-wonder-greatest


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## 3offTheTee (Jan 5, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			👋 but I am Tash 😁

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/mar/28/duncan-edwards-original-boy-wonder-greatest

Click to expand...

Perhaps as well he was there with Billy Wright flat on his backside..

Hope you are well “ mi man”


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## Tashyboy (Jan 5, 2023)

3offTheTee said:



			Perhaps as well he was there with Billy Wright flat on his backside..

Hope you are well “ mi man”
		
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😁👍 alls good, although ask me after the football 😖👍 might be a different answer.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 5, 2023)

Chelsea/City is as dire as Palace/Spurs was last night.

Sluggish play, misplaced passes, no excitement.

Took until 43 minutes before pulses might have got racing with Chelsea hitting the post and then City "racing" (they dont break quickly these days do they?) up the other end to create a half chance.

If I was of an Arsenal bent then I'd be very encouraged by the possibilities for what the season might bring.

For other neutrals though it has been a grim watch indeed.


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## nickjdavis (Jan 5, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			Yep. That’s Sol Campbell. Right there. What a womble.
		
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That's harsh.

Wombles fulfilled a purpose. 

Great Uncle Bulgaria OBE anyone?


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## AmandaJR (Jan 5, 2023)

nickjdavis said:



			Chelsea/City is as dire as Palace/Spurs was last night.

Sluggish play, misplaced passes, no excitement.

Took until 43 minutes before pulses might have got racing with Chelsea hitting the post and then City "racing" (they dont break quickly these days do they?) up the other end to create a half chance.

If I was of an Arsenal bent then I'd be very encouraged by the possibilities for what the season might bring.

For other neutrals though it has been a grim watch indeed.
		
Click to expand...

For a non neutral it's been even more dire - or frustrating at least. We look bloody awful and right off the pace. Cancelo has had me swearing at the TV so at least he's gone!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2023)

Is Graham Potter going to become available shortly? Asking for a friend


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 5, 2023)

Think the Chelsea keeper might have a few questions to answer there!
Looked like he could have “ threw his cap on that “ as my old dad used to say.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 5, 2023)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is Graham Potter going to become available shortly? Asking for a friend 

Click to expand...

Depends who the friend is.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 5, 2023)

That was painful, maybe folk may understand why I think Arsenal are favourites for the title. Pep has said that City nigh on need to play perfect to win the title. That was not even 50%. Cancelo, Foden, Walker just not up to standard.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 5, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			That was painful, maybe folk may understand why I think Arsenal are favourites for the title. Pep has said that City nigh on need to play perfect to win the title. That was not even 50%. Cancelo, Foden, Walker just not up to standard.
		
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Looked like Haarland has upset his team mates 
Nobody wanted to pass to him.
As poor as I have seen City for a while.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			Depends who the friend is.

Click to expand...

Might be called Farhad........perhaps 🤭


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## Tashyboy (Jan 5, 2023)

clubchamp98 said:



			Looked like Haarland has upset his team mates
Nobody wanted to pass to him.
As poor as I have seen City for a while.
		
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They have been on and off all season. For 15 mins after the subs City were a lot better, but then sat back against a very average side.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 5, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			They have been on and off all season. For 15 mins after the subs City were a lot better, but then sat back against a very average side.
		
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To be honest Chelsea never looked like scoring.
City normally go for the kill but didn’t.


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## Billysboots (Jan 5, 2023)

Tashyboy said:



			They have been on and off all season. For 15 mins after the subs City were a lot better, but then sat back against a very average side.
		
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I haven’t seen a great deal of City apart from highlights packages, Tash. Is there a danger of them becoming a little one dimensional because of the outstanding success of Haaland since his arrival? They certainly had to change their approach playing a target man like him, and I just wonder if it’s all come at a cost elsewhere.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 5, 2023)

Billysboots said:



			I haven’t seen a great deal of City apart from highlights packages, Tash. Is there a danger of them becoming a little one dimensional because of the outstanding success of Haaland since his arrival? They certainly had to change their approach playing a target man like him, and I just wonder if it’s all come at a cost elsewhere.
		
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Ironically the goal City scored looked like a few years back when Sane and Serling played with pace on the wings. Ball comes in from one side and the winger slips in from the other. I thought Kepa was shocking for the goal. When I look at the goals we scored from all over the park last season. It was never a problem for me this year.Haaland is scoring for fun, but others have lost there touch. If City win the title this year I will be shocked. As it stands at the moment Utd have some fantastic momentum going. I think this years top four is going to be good to watch.


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## Junior (Jan 6, 2023)

City did what they needed to do.  Stamford Bridge is a hard place to go.  I though defensively Chelsea did a great job on Foden and Silva and I said to my mate they need someone like Grealish on to run at them not around them.  Even as a red, I think Grealish is improving as a footballer at city.  He seems to have accepted the squad role but for me he should start more games.


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## Hobbit (Jan 6, 2023)

nickjdavis said:



			Chelsea/City is as dire as Palace/Spurs was last night.

Sluggish play, misplaced passes, no excitement.

Took until 43 minutes before pulses might have got racing with Chelsea hitting the post and then City "racing" (they dont break quickly these days do they?) up the other end to create a half chance.

If I was of an Arsenal bent then I'd be very encouraged by the possibilities for what the season might bring.

For other neutrals though it has been a grim watch indeed.
		
Click to expand...

I enjoyed the warm up before the more than the game itself. Hope Arsenal don’t have a blip.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 6, 2023)

Just heard the sad news about Gianluca Vialli. It was only last month I heard he was going back for treatment, but I think he sounded pretty positive. Only 58 years old. He is a player that brings me back to the days I watched Football Italia on Channel 4 every Sunday religiously (my early years of getting into football), and he was one of the top players in one of the best leagues at the time. And then, of course, from his time at Chelsea.


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## BrianM (Jan 6, 2023)

Swango1980 said:



			Just heard the sad news about Gianluca Vialli. It was only last month I heard he was going back for treatment, but I think he sounded pretty positive. Only 58 years old. He is a player that brings me back to the days I watched Football Italia on Channel 4 ever Sunday religiously (my early years of getting into football), and he was one of the top players in one of the best leagues at the time. And then, of course, from his time at Chelsea.
		
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This for me as well, Football Italia was immense on the Sunday.
Rest in Peace Gianluca.


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## IanM (Jan 6, 2023)

Yep...dreadful news.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 6, 2023)

Really sad news

Remember seeing him early 90’s when he went to Juve to play alongside Baggio and they were superb , then mid 90’s when they beat that great Ajax team with a front 3 of Him , Del Peiro and Ravenelli 

Think he is one of those players that won all three of the European trophies and then won a few with Chelsea as their manager


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## Billysboots (Jan 6, 2023)

Vialli had to be one of the most humble, down to earth, quietly spoken superstars we have ever been lucky enough to see play the game in this country. An absolute gentleman. We read news like this and, quite often, it washes over us. As a cancer sufferer myself and football lover, I am genuinely saddened by the news of his passing.


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## fundy (Jan 6, 2023)

Very sad to see Viallis passing, had the pleasure of his company on a golf day once, genuninely nice guy (unlike a few there that day lol), RIP Gianluca


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 6, 2023)

Remember seeing him bang 4 in at oakwell in 1997 
RIP Vialli


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## pauljames87 (Jan 6, 2023)

BiMGuy said:



			Just seen this incident. The Coufal challenge wasn’t great and Summerville has gone after him, but Coufal has mad a meal of it, there wasn’t that much contact.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611014909633990657
Taken a few days but watch the video , see his leg .. I don't think he made a meal out of that


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## Swango1980 (Jan 6, 2023)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611014909633990657
Taken a few days but watch the video , see his leg .. I don't think he made a meal out of that
		
Click to expand...

I believe a player can get a red card for endangering the safety of another player.

I'm guessing the guy on VAR felt the challenge didn't pass that threshold? Or, do they use the same camera as we saw? I notice the camera doesn't really provide a good view of the lower legs of both players when challenge made, so they couldn't do their slow motions and freeze frames on that video. However, the injury is pretty visible afterwards, and you'd think the officials could use a bit of common sense?


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## Dando (Jan 6, 2023)




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## Billysboots (Jan 6, 2023)

Dando said:



View attachment 45855

Click to expand...

That joke is so last year 😉


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## Slime (Jan 6, 2023)

Here we go again!
Oh, Antony is fit for tonight's game.


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## Slime (Jan 6, 2023)

David De Gea, what were you thinking?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 6, 2023)

Roy Keane will enjoy analysing DeGea at half time.


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## Billysboots (Jan 6, 2023)

Slime said:



			Oh, Antony is fit for tonight's game. 

Click to expand...

So he’s been un-dropped, then? 😂


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## fundy (Jan 6, 2023)

Didnt look good for Iwobi that, ankle not supposed to go like that 

Hopefully a speedy recovery


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## Slime (Jan 6, 2023)

Hey, a goal's a goal!


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## Slime (Jan 6, 2023)




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## Slime (Jan 6, 2023)

Another deserved victory from a mediocre performance.
Charlton are next, but after that we absolutely have to up our game. 
Now, where's that cuppa?


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## Billysboots (Jan 6, 2023)

Slime said:



			Another deserved victory from a mediocre performance.
Charlton are next, but after that we absolutely have to up our game. 
Now, where's that cuppa?
		
Click to expand...

But, along with the fixtures against Wolves, Leicester and Southampton, another game we would perhaps not have won 12 months ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the great performances as much as anyone. But after the last few years, grinding out results in games where we haven’t played well is perhaps almost as satisfying.


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## Junior (Saturday at 9:12 AM)

Slime said:



			Another deserved victory from a mediocre performance.
Charlton are next, but after that we absolutely have to up our game. 
Now, where's that cuppa?
		
Click to expand...

Should have had it closed off in the first half but sometimes its good to win scrappy like @Billysboots says.

Not sure Depay is the answer.  I like Martial's workrate but he needs to start scoring tap 
if you know what i mean.  Athletico's demands for Felix seem crazy. 15mill for half a season in fees and wages.


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## Liverpoolphil (Saturday at 7:55 PM)

How the heck did the linesman not see this


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## Tashyboy (Saturday at 7:57 PM)

Over to Beezerk me finks 😳. Will he be safe oop north 😁


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## pendodave (Saturday at 8:14 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How the heck did the linesman not see this
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, but the first Wednesday goal was almost as bad. 
Has VAR taken away their skillset, or have we just forgotten how many terrible decisions there used to be on a weekly basis?


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## Swango1980 (Saturday at 8:27 PM)

Allison well and truly beating De Gea for abysmal goalkeeping this weekend


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## Liverpoolphil (Saturday at 8:45 PM)

So he can’t finish simple ones but that was sublime 😂


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## srixon 1 (Saturday at 8:46 PM)

World class. It came off his shin. 🤣


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## Dando (Saturday at 8:47 PM)

srixon 1 said:



			World class. It came off his shin. 🤣
		
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Just like shreks over head kick again City


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## clubchamp98 (Saturday at 8:53 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 45868


How the heck did the linesman not see this
		
Click to expand...

Coms said because the keeper got a touch it’s not offside.
Absolute joke .
Anyone understand the offside rule now.


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## clubchamp98 (Saturday at 8:56 PM)

We’re making Wolves look good here.
To be fair they have played well.


----------



## Dando (Saturday at 8:56 PM)

Why is Lenny Henry in the itv studio?


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## clubchamp98 (Saturday at 8:58 PM)

srixon 1 said:



			World class. It came off his shin. 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Takes the spin off it to keep the ball down 
It went in that’s the main thing.
No pictures on the score card as they say.


----------



## pendodave (Saturday at 9:12 PM)

pendodave said:



			Agreed, but the first Wednesday goal was almost as bad.
Has VAR taken away their skillset, or have we just forgotten how many terrible decisions there used to be on a weekly basis?
		
Click to expand...

Add in the second liverpool goal....
It's like a conspiracy to convince us to love the VAR.


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## Swango1980 (Saturday at 9:13 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			Coms said because the keeper got a touch it’s not offside.
Absolute joke .
Anyone understand the offside rule now.
		
Click to expand...

It is a joke, but Mo Salah is grateful to take advantage of it


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## Liverpoolphil (Saturday at 9:13 PM)

pendodave said:



			Add in the second liverpool goal....
It's like a conspiracy to convince us to love the VAR.
		
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There is VAR at the match but seems it’s ok because the Wolves player made an attempt at the ball and it touched him last 🤷‍♂️


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## clubchamp98 (Saturday at 9:13 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 45868


How the heck did the linesman not see this
		
Click to expand...

Salah goal the same .
What’s the defender supposed to do.?
I thought the offence occurs when the balls played and he’s clearly offside.
Absolute joke of a rule.


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## srixon 1 (Saturday at 9:14 PM)

Not offside because the defender touched the ball. Even though he didn’t know that Sala was offside. Football has gone to rats.


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## clubchamp98 (Saturday at 9:15 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is VAR at the match but seems it’s ok because the Wolves player made an attempt at the ball and it touched him last 🤷‍♂️
		
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Remember the Lovren to Kane one ?
It’s been a rule for a long time.
Still a joke.


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## nickjdavis (Saturday at 9:25 PM)

srixon 1 said:



			Not offside because the defender touched the ball. Even though he didn’t know that Sala was offside. Football has gone to rats.
		
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So surely Salah's presence was what made the Wolves defender attempt to play the ball? so therefore he influenced the play from his offside position?


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## srixon 1 (Saturday at 9:25 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			Allison well and truly beating De Gea for abysmal goalkeeping this weekend 

Click to expand...

Just confirmed it. 😂


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## pendodave (Saturday at 9:27 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			Remember the Lovren to Kane one ?
It’s been a rule for a long time.
Still a joke.
		
Click to expand...

I thought there was a difference between a defender actively making a pass and accidentally deflecting it ?
Genuinely can't remember why. Could just be age...
Luckily I don't have a dog in the fight in either game, but every time it happens it makes me enjoy footy a little bit less.


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## Liverpoolphil (Saturday at 9:31 PM)

pendodave said:



			I thought there was a difference between a defender actively making a pass and accidentally deflecting it ?
Genuinely can't remember why. Could just be age...
Luckily I don't have a dog in the fight in either game, but every time it happens it makes me enjoy footy a little bit less.
		
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It’s about having a “genuine attempt” at the ball - doesn’t seem right though


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## Swango1980 (Saturday at 9:43 PM)

Still trying to work out which Wolves player was offside on that disallowed goal. Only seem replay once, not seen the VAR still yet


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## srixon 1 (Saturday at 9:44 PM)

Wolves have been shafted twice. I’m not a Wolves fan.


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## Liverpoolphil (Saturday at 9:45 PM)

srixon 1 said:



			Wolves have been shafted twice. I’m not a Wolves fan.
		
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Twice ? When was the first time 

It looked very tight but offside in two phases of the play ?


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## srixon 1 (Saturday at 9:46 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Twice ? When was the first time 

It looked very tight but offside in two phases of the play ?
		
Click to expand...

The Salah goal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Saturday at 9:47 PM)

srixon 1 said:



			The Salah goal.
		
Click to expand...

He wasn’t offside by the rules of the game 🤷‍♂️ as puzzling as they are at times when it comes to offside


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## yandabrown (Saturday at 9:49 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			Still trying to work out which Wolves player was offside on that disallowed goal. Only seem replay once, not seen the VAR still yet
		
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I can only imagine it was the guy that took the corner, everyone else looked fine.


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## pendodave (Saturday at 9:50 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He wasn’t offside by the rules of the game 🤷‍♂️
		
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Perhaps you (or anyone else) could explain why the Wolves player was "offside by the rules of the game".
I'm genuinely not being obtuse, it looked a lot less offside than Salah.


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## srixon 1 (Saturday at 9:51 PM)

Just my opinion. We have already gone through this. So if the defender had tried to play the ball but missed it, would Salah have been deemed to be offside? Nobody seems to know anymore how the offside rule works.


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## Liverpoolphil (Saturday at 9:52 PM)

pendodave said:



			Perhaps you (or anyone else) could explain why the Wolves player was "offside by the rules of the game".
I'm genuinely not being obtuse, it looked a lot less offside than Salah.
		
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The guy who took the corner apparently was offside when the ball went back to him 🤷‍♂️


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## hairball_89 (Saturday at 9:52 PM)

Dando said:



			Why is Lenny Henry in the itv studio?
		
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Just checking whether blatant racism is OK on the forum?


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## fundy (Saturday at 9:53 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The guy who took the corner apparently was offside when the ball went back to him 🤷‍♂️
		
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key word being apparently as they have zero pictures of it


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## srixon 1 (Saturday at 9:53 PM)

So there isn’t enough video evidence so they went with the on field decision. VAR is a crock of shit. Just what is the point if not all the angles are covered.


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## Swango1980 (Saturday at 9:53 PM)

Plot gets thicker. VAR didn't have camera angle for Wolves disallowed goal, so just had to assume linesman was correct.


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## Liverpoolphil (Saturday at 9:54 PM)

fundy said:



			key word being apparently as they have zero pictures of it
		
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So they went with the old fashioned way and went with the linesman 🤷‍♂️


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## fundy (Saturday at 9:55 PM)

Poor old Klippety, is he happy to get the offside decision or angry theyve got to play a replay


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## fundy (Saturday at 9:55 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So they went with the old fashioned way and gave the decision to the big club 🤷‍♂️
		
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Corrected that for you


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## Swango1980 (Saturday at 9:56 PM)

Liverpool were lucky there. Took advantage of today's bizarre interpretation of offside (Salah), and potentially Wolves 3rd goal because VAR can't even have a camera showing the full width of pitch. 

Thought Wolves were decent.


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## clubchamp98 (Saturday at 9:59 PM)

Multi million / billion game and VAR don’t have a view of the whole pitch???
You couldn’t make it up.

Fair result imo nobody deserved to win.
Two bad goals to conceed though.


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## hairball_89 (Saturday at 10:03 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			Liverpool were lucky there. Took advantage of today's bizarre interpretation of offside (Salah), and potentially Wolves 3rd goal because VAR can't even have a camera showing the full width of pitch.

Thought Wolves were decent.
		
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Absolutely. Presumably it’s the rules for the Salah goal. For me, the defender plays the ball *because* he knows salah is behind him. Salah is in an offside position. Therefore it should be off. Surely? I don’t get it.

And then the wolves non-goal… the excuse given is reasonable. They don’t have the data so go with onfield. Fine. *apart from* in every replay shown the goal looks good. Even through my red specs! I don’t understand why it isn’t a goal. There’s one point where Toti is in an offside position, but the ball is played backwards before it gets to him.

The most worrying thing? This was pretty much the best side Jurgen could have put out tonight. And by god we were awful. Slow, predictable, boring. Something needs to happen. I have no idea what. But it feels like Klopp doesn’t either. And that’s quite an issue!


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## clubchamp98 (Saturday at 10:03 PM)

yandabrown said:



			I can only imagine it was the guy that took the corner, everyone else looked fine.
		
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Yes it was but the problem is the linesman keeps his flag down until the goal goes in.
Another stupid rule.


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## clubchamp98 (Saturday at 10:07 PM)

hairball_89 said:



			Absolutely. Presumably it’s the rules for the Salah goal. For me, the defender plays the ball *because* he knows salah is behind him. Salah is in an offside position. Therefore it should be off. Surely? I don’t get it.

And then the wolves non-goal… the excuse given is reasonable. They don’t have the data so go with onfield. Fine. *apart from* in every replay shown the goal looks good. Even through my red specs! I don’t understand why it isn’t a goal. There’s one point where Toti is in an offside position, but the ball is played backwards before it gets to him.

The most worrying thing? This was pretty much the best side Jurgen could have put out tonight. And by god we were awful. Slow, predictable, boring. Something needs to happen. I have no idea what. But it feels like Klopp doesn’t either. And that’s quite an issue!
		
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Agree.
But in most offside decisions your offside when the ball is played forward.
Every still of offside is when the ball is kicked. 
Who thought it would be good to change that ??

No defender can afford to not try and play the ball , that’s his job!
It’s a very poor rule and not the only one.


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## Bazzatron (Saturday at 10:10 PM)

Thought we were superb considering we'd made a few changes. 

No point getting worked up about refs, rather concentrate on what was a good performance against a strong Liverpool team, this new gaffer is the real deal.


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## Tashyboy (Saturday at 11:18 PM)

Having seen the highlights on the BBC site. I can only come to the conclusion that VAR has had one of its worst days.


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## Liverpoolphil (Saturday at 11:26 PM)

hairball_89 said:



			Absolutely. Presumably it’s the rules for the Salah goal. For me, the defender plays the ball *because* he knows salah is behind him. Salah is in an offside position. *Therefore it should be off. Surely? I don’t get it.*

And then the wolves non-goal… the excuse given is reasonable. They don’t have the data so go with onfield. Fine. *apart from* in every replay shown the goal looks good. Even through my red specs! I don’t understand why it isn’t a goal. There’s one point where Toti is in an offside position, but the ball is played backwards before it gets to him.

The most worrying thing? This was pretty much the best side Jurgen could have put out tonight. And by god we were awful. Slow, predictable, boring. Something needs to happen. I have no idea what. But it feels like Klopp doesn’t either. And that’s quite an issue!
		
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That’s the extract from the offside rule - if the defender had left it then he would be offside


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## Beezerk (Sunday at 12:12 AM)

Tashyboy said:



			Over to Beezerk me finks 😳. Will he be safe oop north 😁
		
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Howay the Toon
That is all 💪


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## Pin-seeker (Sunday at 12:16 AM)

LivARpool definitely got the rub of the green today.
Anyone seen Big Stu La?
Be nice if he was as quiet during international tournaments as he is when the wheels fall off the Klopp express 😂😂


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## hairball_89 (Sunday at 12:22 AM)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 45871


That’s the extract from the offside rule - if the defender had left it then he would be offside
		
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Oh, as per the rules, yes he’s onside. But personally I disagree. He’s benefited from being in an illegal position. I get why it’s been given, I just disagree with it.


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 9:33 AM)

Personally I think VAR is rammel. But re the FA cup it’s took to a whole new level of rammel.
in the Sheff weds game, there’s no VAR because it’s not a Prem ground.
But in the Liverpool game there is, but it’s use was limited. Furthermore and I quote.

In the Premier League, an explanation such as "Nunes offside" would be displayed on the screen in the ground, but the Football Association, which runs the FA Cup, follows Uefa and Fifa guidance and does not do this, which caused confusion in the crowd and among pundits.

So we have different ways of using VAR. The prem league and the FA cannot even agree on how it should be used in the same country.

Furthermore and I quote,
This is the utter farce of VAR. we’re at the game and we have no idea who was offside. It could be Lord Lucan for all we know.

As I have mentioned umpteen times. Match going fans do not know what VAR is looking for when making a decision, be it offside handball etc etc. when watching the FA CUP games you do not know anything period.

VAR has been around long enough now for problems to be ironed out..

I stand by my opening comment.

VAR is rammel, along with the people running it.


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## Billysboots (Sunday at 9:42 AM)

Tashyboy said:



			Personally I think VAR is rammel. But re the FA cup it’s took to a whole new level of rammel.
in the Sheff weds game, there’s no VAR because it’s not a Prem ground.
But in the Liverpool game there is, but it’s use was limited. Furthermore and I quote.

In the Premier League, an explanation such as "Nunes offside" would be displayed on the screen in the ground, but the Football Association, which runs the FA Cup, follows Uefa and Fifa guidance and does not do this, which caused confusion in the crowd and among pundits.

So we have different ways of using VAR. The prem league and the FA cannot even agree on how it should be used in the same country.

Furthermore and I quote,
This is the utter farce of VAR. we’re at the game and we have no idea who was offside. It could be Lord Lucan for all we know.

As I have mentioned umpteen times. Match going fans do not know what VAR is looking for when making a decision, be it offside handball etc etc. when watching the FA CUP games you do not know anything period.

VAR has been around long enough now for problems to be ironed out..

I stand by my opening comment.

VAR is rammel, along with the people running it.
		
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It shouldn’t be used in any cup competition where the technology isn’t available at every ground. End of.


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## nickjdavis (Sunday at 9:52 AM)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 45871


That’s the extract from the offside rule - if the defender had left it then he would be offside
		
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So does stretching out a leg in an attempt to prevent the ball reaching the attacker not fall under the "deliberate save" criteria?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sunday at 10:22 AM)

hairball_89 said:



			Oh, as per the rules, yes he’s onside. But personally I disagree. He’s benefited from being in an illegal position. I get why it’s been given, I just disagree with it.
		
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I agree it’s a very strange ruling and I have no idea why they changed it - it’s also something we have been caught out by as well 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612029255063597057


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 10:27 AM)

nickjdavis said:



			So does stretching out a leg in an attempt to prevent the ball reaching the attacker not fall under the "deliberate save" criteria?
		
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Might be the same as trying to foul someone but missing , is it a foul. .?
The rule is really poor as most PL defenders will play the ball if they can.
Can you imagine the managers office Monday morning if they just let the ball go.?

Your offside as soon as your teammate plays the ball, and if you force the defender to play the ball definitely interfering with play. Imo.
But the rules are crap.


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## Billysboots (Sunday at 10:44 AM)

clubchamp98 said:



			But the rules are crap.
		
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And the truly sad thing, certainly when considering the handball and offside rules, is that virtually every fan and pundit think they are utter garbage. And many players too.

The only ones who don’t seem to be able to see it are those who make the rules.


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 10:52 AM)

The Salah goal for me is not really about the defender trying but failing to clear the ball.!
It’s more about the linesman.
In the past the flag would have gone up straight away as he IS offside.
So immaterial what the defender does.
Same as wolves “winner” !
Seems to me the rules they have “improved “ are the ones they have cocked up most.
Just put the flag up.
This is a direct consequence of VAR


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 10:56 AM)

Billysboots said:



			And the truly sad thing, certainly when considering the handball and offside rules, is that virtually every fan and pundit think they are utter garbage. And many players too.

The only ones who don’t seem to be able to see it are those who make the rules.
		
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Very similar to the Drop on the fairway rule when oob!
But at least the Golf Gods listened to players.
But for how long?
This will be revisited in future.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sunday at 10:59 AM)

clubchamp98 said:



			The Salah goal for me is not really about the defender trying but failing to clear the ball.!
It’s more about the linesman.
In the past the flag would have gone up straight away as he IS offside.
So immaterial what the defender does.
Same as wolves “winner” !
Seems to me the rules they have “improved “ are the ones they have cocked up most.
Just put the flag up.
This is a direct consequence of VAR
		
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But Salah by the rules is not offside so why would he put the flag up ? 

What the linesman did was right , allow the play to continue and then check after


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 1:53 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But Salah by the rules is not offside so why would he put the flag up ?

What the linesman did was right , allow the play to continue and then check after
		
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Have you read my post properly.
If the defender dosnt touch the ball he’s offside.
He’s offside as soon as the ball was played
He then becomes not offside because the defender heads it.
Absolute joke.

We all know the rule but are discussing it.
The offside rule has been changed to facilitate VAR so they can play on until it can be checked.
We all know this .
That rule should be put back to what it was.
Just put your flag up if it’s offside.


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## Dando (Sunday at 2:20 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But Salah by the rules is not offside so why would he put the flag up ?

What the linesman did was right , allow the play to continue and then check after
		
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If he’s offside when the ball is first played it should be irrelevant if a defender then gets a touch on it - you know how it was in the old days


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 2:26 PM)

Dando said:



			If he’s offside when the ball is first played it should be irrelevant if a defender then gets a touch on it - you know how it was in the old days
		
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Yes this.
Maybe the flag should go up but play on so the defender has a choice to play the ball or not.
Either way it’s a joke of a rule.
Your offside oh no your not , Pantomime.


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## Swango1980 (Sunday at 2:26 PM)

I've no issue with offside not being given if a player is not interfering with play, even if they get involved further on, in what is clearly a different phase of play. We always heard about "phase of play". However, they've messed about with rule so much now, they don't have a clue what they are up to, it seems. There is not one fan, player, manager that would think Salah got involved in a separate phase of play, from when that ball was played in. Had the defender made same move, but only got a single hair on it, the rules now say Salah is no longer offside.

It is an absolute farce. We said this a year ago, and we will continue to do so until the authorities see some sense.

And of the millions and millions of pounds they have invested into VAR, and the extra officials they employ to administer it, it is simply embarrassing they don't have a camera that scans the entire width of the pitch.


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 2:42 PM)

Dando said:



			If he’s offside when the ball is first played it should be irrelevant if a defender then gets a touch on it - you know how it was in the old days
		
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If memory serves me right, City scored against Villa the season before last like this. It was wrong then and two seasons later it is still wrong.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sunday at 2:46 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			And of the millions and millions of pounds they have invested into VAR, and the extra officials they employ to administer it, it is simply embarrassing they don't have a camera that scans the entire width of the pitch.
		
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Whats embarrassing is playing a Cup competition with different rules for different stadia. Either you have VAR for all the  comp or you don't.


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 2:50 PM)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Whats embarrassing is playing a Cup competition with different rules for different stadia. Either you have VAR for all the  comp or you don't.
		
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Totally agree, we are all in or we are all out. But in this instance we are partly in and still getting it wrong 😳


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## Billysboots (Sunday at 2:53 PM)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Whats embarrassing is playing a Cup competition with different rules for different stadia. Either you have VAR for all the  comp or you don't.
		
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Absolutely. 

It’s absolutely ludicrous that a referee can make a game changing mistake and whether or not that mistake gets rectified depends on which stadium you’re playing in. Do the FA not realise just what a nonsense that is?


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## Slime (Sunday at 2:59 PM)

Billysboots said:



			Absolutely.

*It’s absolutely ludicrous that a referee can make a game changing mistake and whether or not that mistake gets rectified depends on which stadium you’re playing in. *Do the FA not realise just what a nonsense that is?
		
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Yeah, but both teams are playing under the same rules.
The teams in any one match either both have VAR or both don't, so I can't see an issue with VAR being stadium dependent.


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## AmandaJR (Sunday at 3:10 PM)

I've found the absence of VAR a delight. A goal is given and it's a goal. Celebrate. There may be mistakes but hellfire VAR is just one big mistake.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sunday at 3:18 PM)

Slime said:



			Yeah, but both teams are playing under the same rules.
The teams in any one match either both have VAR or both don't, so I can't see an issue with VAR being stadium dependent.
		
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Except when it's one team who is used to VAR against another team that has no experience of VAR.
Either all teams must have it, or turn it off.


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## Billysboots (Sunday at 3:39 PM)

Slime said:



			Yeah, but both teams are playing under the same rules.
The teams in any one match either both have VAR or both don't, so I can't see an issue with VAR being stadium dependent.
		
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But just think about it. You’re Chesterfield and you’re playing at home against Man City. You score a perfectly legitimate 94th minute winner in an FA Cup tie only to see it ruled out for an offside, which a VAR review would have shown to be a glaring mistake. Only, there is no VAR review because the system isn’t unavailable.

It just doesn’t feel right. And if something doesn’t feel right it invariably isn’t.


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## BiMGuy (Sunday at 3:42 PM)

Great save by the Cardiff player, then the keeper!


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## Slime (Sunday at 3:59 PM)

Billysboots said:



			But just think about it. You’re Chesterfield and you’re playing at home against Man City. You score a perfectly legitimate 94th minute winner in an FA Cup tie only to see it ruled out for an offside, which a VAR review would have shown to be a glaring mistake. Only, there is no VAR review because the system isn’t unavailable.

It just doesn’t feel right. And if something doesn’t feel right it invariably isn’t.
		
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But what if Chesterfield score an offside goal in the 94th minute that VAR would have ruled out but, because there is no VAR, it's allowed to stand?


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## Slime (Sunday at 4:01 PM)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Except when it's one team who is used to VAR against another team that has no experience of VAR.
Either all teams must have it, or turn it off.
		
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Sorry Bunker, but I don't see how 'being used to VAR' is relevant.
Teams don't play different because they are/aren't used to it, do they?


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## larmen (Sunday at 4:03 PM)

Having seen the highlights from yesterday, the 2nd Wrexham goal, CR7 fans will claim the goal belongs to the striker that didn't ouch it because the goal would  have caught it otherwise?


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## Swango1980 (Sunday at 5:01 PM)

Definite penalty. But why on earth does VAR allow play to continue for ages, and only when ball goes out of play, tell ref to review it?


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## Slime (Sunday at 5:04 PM)

Are Chelsea really as bad as they appear to be this afternoon?


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## Billysboots (Sunday at 5:15 PM)

Slime said:



			But what if Chesterfield score an offside goal in the 94th minute that VAR would have ruled out but, because there is no VAR, it's allowed to stand?
		
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Then surely the same applies - it’s a game changing cock-up which is allowed to stand because of the absence of VAR.

There shouldn’t be the possibility of game changing mistakes being missed in one FA Cup tie, but being rectified in another game, simply because of where those two games are being played. 

We all seem to be of the view that the standard of refereeing is pretty average. If there is a reliance on VAR to support officials in making correct decisions, then regardless of the fact that VAR itself is also a bit of a mess, that mess should at least be available across the board in a competition.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sunday at 5:15 PM)

Slime said:



			Are Chelsea really as bad as they appear to be this afternoon?
		
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Will Potter get relieved in time for Frank's departure? It would save Chelsea paying out compensation 🤭


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## fundy (Sunday at 5:16 PM)

Slime said:



			Are Chelsea really as bad as they appear to be this afternoon?
		
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they have a huge amount of injuries, an unbalanced squad and a manager new in who hasnt had a chance to get his own players in as yet. Sounds familiar to a few other sides recently.....

seems a bit early to judge Potter and where theyre headed to me (especially as theyre rumoured to be buying half of europe this transfer window lol)

Missing Mendy, Fofana, Chilwell, James, Kante, Broja, Loftus Cheek, Sterling, Pulisic at least


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## Bunkermagnet (Sunday at 5:20 PM)

Slime said:



			Sorry Bunker, but I don't see how 'being used to VAR' is relevant.
Teams don't play different because they are/aren't used to it, do they?
		
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Example then, Gills Leicester yesterday. No VAR as Gills can't even afford flushing urinals let alone VAR, and Leicester player goes down in the box with nothing touching him. He knows its the ref only who makes the call. The dive was embarrassing, but the ref got it right...fortunately for the game. But can you know the young Leicester player wasn't thinking no VAR, 50/50 call by the ref?


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## fundy (Sunday at 5:22 PM)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Example then, Gills Leicester yesterday. No VAR as Gills can't even afford flushing urinals let alone VAR, and Leicester player goes down in the box with nothing touching him. He knows its the ref only who makes the call. The dive was embarrassing, but the ref got it right...fortunately for the game. But can you know the young Leicester player wasn't thinking no VAR, 50/50 call by the ref?
		
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and hows that different to the other end and a young Gills player, who might be thinking no VAR, 50/50 call by the ref?


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## Bunkermagnet (Sunday at 5:25 PM)

fundy said:



			and hows that different to the other end and a young Gills player, who might be thinking no VAR, 50/50 call by the ref?
		
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Unlikely as playing now in League 2, Priestfield has no VAR.
When I've watched lower league teams going to Premiership teams. it's obvious they forget that the VAR is at those grounds by the way they react and play to events and outcomes unfolding.


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 5:25 PM)

Billysboots said:



			Then surely the same applies - it’s a game changing cock-up which is allowed to stand because of the absence of VAR.

There shouldn’t be the possibility of game changing mistakes being missed in one FA Cup tie, but being rectified in another game, simply because of where those two games are being played.

We all seem to be of the view that the standard of refereeing is pretty average. If there is a reliance on VAR to support officials in making correct decisions, then regardless of the fact that VAR itself is also a bit of a mess, that mess should at least be available across the board in a competition.
		
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Yes I agree.
Take the Salah goal yesterday .
No VAR it’s offside and no goal because without VAR the linesman would raise his flag straight away.


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## fundy (Sunday at 5:27 PM)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Unlikely as playing now in League 2, Priestfield has no VAR.
When I've watched lower league teams going to Premiership teams. it's obvious they forget that the VAR is at those grounds by the way they react and play to events and outcomes unfolding.
		
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so youre implying that players who play in leagues that dont have VAR dont dive to try and get penalties????


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## Bunkermagnet (Sunday at 5:35 PM)

fundy said:



			so youre implying that players who play in leagues that dont have VAR dont dive to try and get penalties????
		
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No, I'm not saying that as well you know.


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## fundy (Sunday at 5:36 PM)

Bunkermagnet said:



			No, I'm not saying that as well you know.
		
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then what are you saying and how is it any different if both ends are being reffed the same?


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## Swango1980 (Sunday at 5:53 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
Take the Salah goal yesterday .
No VAR it’s offside and no goal because without VAR the linesman would raise his flag straight away.
		
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Not sure you are correct there. In yesterdays game, the linesman didn't flag anyway, did he not? Yes, they are asked to delay raising the flag due to VAR, but they WILL ultimately raise it eventually if they think it is offside. 

So, if there was no VAR yesterday, the linesman would still not have raised their flag. 

The issue with Salah's goal wasn't VAR or the linesman. It was the stupid rule and how it is supposed to be interpreted.


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## ColchesterFC (Sunday at 5:53 PM)

fundy said:



			they have a huge amount of injuries, an unbalanced squad and a manager new in who hasnt had a chance to get his own players in as yet. Sounds familiar to a few other sides recently.....

seems a bit early to judge Potter and where theyre headed to me (especially as theyre rumoured to be buying half of europe this transfer window lol)

Missing Mendy, Fofana, Chilwell, James, Kante, Broja, Loftus Cheek, Sterling, Pulisic at least
		
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It would be interesting to know how much input Potter has had into the signings that Chelsea are making. Are they players that he wants/needs to improve the team or is the new owner playing a real life version of football manager?


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## fundy (Sunday at 5:57 PM)

ColchesterFC said:



			It would be interesting to know how much input Potter has had into the signings that Chelsea are making. Are they players that he wants/needs to improve the team or is the new owner playing a real life version of football manager?
		
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Agree with this, hard to know from the outside. They also have the same issue that the likes of Arsenal and Man Utd have had recently where getting rid of some of the existing squad is actually more important than the new signings initially


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 6:08 PM)

Anyone who watched the same fixture midweek would
Not recognise these two teams today.
Suffice to say are Chelsea playing for their manger.


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 6:21 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			Not sure you are correct there. In yesterdays game, the linesman didn't flag anyway, did he not? Yes, they are asked to delay raising the flag due to VAR, but they WILL ultimately raise it eventually if they think it is offside.

So, if there was no VAR yesterday, the linesman would still not have raised their flag.

The issue with Salah's goal wasn't VAR or the linesman. It was the stupid rule and how it is supposed to be interpreted.
		
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I disagree.
If no VAR what’s the point in delaying the flag as there is no replays to watch.
So the flag should go up for the initial offside.
Basically there are two sets of rules now.
One with VAR and one without.


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## Slime (Sunday at 6:21 PM)

Go Stevenage!
Just gone 1-2 up at Villa Park.


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## Swango1980 (Sunday at 6:54 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			I disagree.
If no VAR what’s the point in delaying the flag as there is no replays to watch.
So the flag should go up for the initial offside.
Basically there are two sets of rules now.
One with VAR and one without.
		
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Yes, but what I am saying is the linesman didn't put his flag up after Salah scored anyway. So, he didn't think it was offside. So, why do you think he would put his flag up if he was allowed to straight away? 

And, as we have seen. He was correct. By letter of law, Salah wasn't offside. He should have been, if the offside law was fit and proper. But, it isn't, it is a joke.


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## Dando (Sunday at 7:06 PM)

I think Chelsea need Harry Potter, not graham potter


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 7:06 PM)

Reading the discussion between folks re VAR.The fact that people interpret it differently tells me it has not made Anything clearer To understand. ☹️


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 7:07 PM)

Dando said:



			I think Chelsea need Harry Potter, not graham potter
		
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I was running out of squirrels 🐿


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## Liverpoolphil (Sunday at 7:16 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			Have you read my post properly.
If the defender dosnt touch the ball he’s offside.
He’s offside as soon as the ball was played
He then becomes not offside because the defender heads it.
Absolute joke.

We all know the rule but are discussing it.
The offside rule has been changed to facilitate VAR so they can play on until it can be checked.
We all know this .
That rule should be put back to what it was.
Just put your flag up if it’s offside.
		
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But that’s not the current rules and how the linesman are asked to officiate the game - just because someone is stood in an offside position doesn’t mean they are offside - if the player missed the ball and it ended up at the feet of Salah then the linesman puts the flag up when the phase of play finishes 

The rule won’t go back to what it should be because they have put VAR in place


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 8:27 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, but what I am saying is the linesman didn't put his flag up after Salah scored anyway. So, he didn't think it was offside. So, why do you think he would put his flag up if he was allowed to straight away?

And, as we have seen. He was correct. By letter of law, Salah wasn't offside. He should have been, if the offside law was fit and properly . But, it isn't, it is a joke.
		
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If he can’t see that’s offside he shouldn’t be doing the job.
He should have put it up to let the ref know he was in an offside position initially and let VAR sort it out after the goal.
That’s how it works I think.

In the lower leagues do they let play run on until the ball is out ??
Genuine question any fans of lower league teams know?

If so it’s a two rules system depending on your level of play.

I agree on it being a joke.


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 8:31 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But that’s not the current rules and how the linesman are asked to officiate the game - just because someone is stood in an offside position doesn’t mean they are offside - if the player missed the ball and it ended up at the feet of Salah then the linesman puts the flag up when the phase of play finishes

The rule won’t go back to what it should be because they have put VAR in place
		
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Phil put your rule book away.
I am just having a disscusion about it.
I know what the book says but that dosnt mean I have to like it.

I disagree I think they will change this stupid rule back


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## Liverpoolphil (Sunday at 8:32 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



*If he can’t see that’s offside he shouldn’t be doing the job.
He should have put it up to let the ref know he was in an offside position initially and let VAR sort it out after the goal.
That’s how it works I think.*

In the lower leagues do they let play run on until the ball is out ??
Genuine question any fans of lower league teams know?

If so it’s a two rules system depending on your level of play.

I agree on it being a joke.
		
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That’s not how it works 

As soon as the linesman puts his flag up the ref blows his whistle which is why they now wait until the phase of play finishes and then put the flag up - if a goal is scored they check for offside


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 8:34 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s not how it works

As soon as the linesman puts his flag up the ref blows his whistle which is why they now wait until the phase of play finishes and then put the flag up - if a goal is scored they check for offside
		
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That’s what I said AFTER THE GOAL


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## Liverpoolphil (Sunday at 8:38 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s what I said AFTER THE GOAL
		
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But the linesman didn’t think he was offside which is why he didn’t put the flag up 🤷‍♂️ - the linesman knows the rules and made a judgement goal on defender going for the ball - but they still check for offside as they do with every single goal


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 8:40 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But the linesman didn’t think he was offside which is why he didn’t put the flag up 🤷‍♂️ - the linesman knows the rules and made a judgement goal on defender going for the ball - but they still check for offside as they do with every single goal
		
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He’s a rubbish linesman then because he was in an offside position initially.
Or we wouldn’t be discussing it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sunday at 8:49 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			He’s a rubbish linesman then because he was in an offside position initially.
Or we wouldn’t be discussing it.

Click to expand...

But just because someone is in an offside position doesn’t mean they are offside 🤷‍♂️

You can stand in an offside position and not be offside if not interfering in the play. It’s not new , if Salah was challenging the Wolves player then he is offside


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## HomecountiesJohn (Sunday at 8:50 PM)

The magic of the cup is alive and kicking, league 2 team knocking a PL team out. Well done Stevenage.


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## fundy (Sunday at 8:52 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But just because someone is in an offside position doesn’t mean they are offside 🤷‍♂️

You can stand in an offside position and not be offside if not interfering in the play. It’s not new , if Salah was challenging the Wolves player then he is offside
		
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I know youre correct wrt to the current rules but being on the penalty spot and scoring a few seconds later means youre interfering in anyone with common senses book. Ultimately this rule is currently garbage, sadly it will probably stay garbage


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## Liverpoolphil (Sunday at 8:54 PM)

fundy said:



			I know youre correct wrt to the current rules but being on the penalty spot and scoring a few seconds later means youre interfering in anyone with common senses book. Ultimately this rule is currently garbage, sadly it will probably stay garbage
		
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It’s been stupid for years - as the old saying, if you’re on the pitch then you’re interfering with play - but just trying to point out why the linesman didn’t raise the flag


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## HomecountiesJohn (Sunday at 9:00 PM)

The offside and handball rules [including the different variations of the rules] have not improved the game.

That Salah goal last night was a perfect example of Offside. The defender can't guess that Salah is off and just leave the ball, he only play's the ball because he know's Salah is there.

I was watching it with my Spurs pal and he recalled Kane doing something similar ironically against Liverpool at Anfield a few years ago. 

Also VAR should only be used in every competition if its availble to be used in every ground.


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## PhilTheFragger (Sunday at 9:15 PM)

Can someone explain why….
In the City v Chelsea game, a Chelsea player deliberately handled the ball in the area, thus denying the city player a scoring opportunity.

City got a penalty, which they scored, but the Chelsea player didn’t appear to even get booked, let alone sent off

Have the rules changed or am I missing something?


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## fundy (Sunday at 9:18 PM)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Can someone explain why….
In the City v Chelsea game, a Chelsea player deliberately handled the ball in the area, thus denying the city player a scoring opportunity.

City got a penalty, which they scored, but the Chelsea player didn’t appear to even get booked, let alone sent off

Have the rules changed or am I missing something?
		
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Havertz one? not certain as not sure I understand the rules anymore (does anyone lol) but think it was because the pen was given by VAR not the ref and VAR cant give a yellow card only a red (its handball not stopping a clear goal scoring op so yellow not red imo)


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## Liverpoolphil (Sunday at 9:21 PM)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Can someone explain why….
In the City v Chelsea game, a Chelsea player deliberately handled the ball in the area, thus denying the city player a scoring opportunity.

City got a penalty, which they scored, but the Chelsea player didn’t appear to even get booked, let alone sent off

Have the rules changed or am I missing something?
		
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Should have been booked but might be because VAR give the penalty 

But it’s not a red card offence


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612135685636644864


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 9:43 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But just because someone is in an offside position doesn’t mean they are offside 🤷‍♂️

You can stand in an offside position and not be offside if not interfering in the play. It’s not new , if Salah was challenging the Wolves player then he is offside
		
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You think Salah was not interfering with play ?
He’s on the penalty spot and scored.
If he wasn’t there the defender would get a shout from the keeper to leave it.
As it was the defender had no choice but to play the ball, he dosnt know he’s on or off!

As I understand the rule the Lino sees he’s offside but he keeps his flag down until the balls dead( goal).
He then puts it up to inform the ref that he was offside initially then VAR take over.

If he’s missed it fair enough but if so that’s not good.


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 9:48 PM)

fundy said:



			Havertz one? not certain as not sure I understand the rules anymore (does anyone lol) but think it was because the pen was given by VAR not the ref and VAR cant give a yellow card only a red (its handball not stopping a clear goal scoring op so yellow not red imo)
		
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I would like to know how the ref missed that?
What was he doing ,where was he looking?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sunday at 9:50 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			You think Salah was not interfering with play ?
He’s on the penalty spot and scored.
If he wasn’t there the defender would get a shout from the keeper to leave it.
As it was the defender had no choice but to play the ball, he dosnt know he’s on or off!

As I understand the rule the Lino sees he’s offside but he keeps his flag down until the balls dead( goal).
He then puts it up to inform the ref that he was offside initially then VAR take over.

If he’s missed it fair enough but if so that’s not good.
		
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Salah is deemed to be not interfering with play

He isn’t offside by the current offside rule which is why the linesman didn’t flag 

If the defender had missed the ball and arrives at Salah then he would have put the flag up


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 9:55 PM)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Can someone explain why….
In the City v Chelsea game, a Chelsea player deliberately handled the ball in the area, thus denying the city player a scoring opportunity.

City got a penalty, which they scored, but the Chelsea player didn’t appear to even get booked, let alone sent off

Have the rules changed or am I missing something?
		
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My lad said exactly the same at the time the penalty was given. In the Cardiff game it was deliberate so an easy sending off. But was the Chelsea handball just rubbish defending. 🤔 It looked like one of those that was open to interpretation.


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 9:58 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Salah is deemed to be not interfering with play

He isn’t offside by the current offside rule which is why the linesman didn’t flag

If the defender had missed the ball and arrives at Salah then he would have put the flag up
		
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That just shows how stupid the rule is.

He’s right behind the CB in an offside position when Robbo I think plays the ball.
He controls it and scores.
But he’s not offside and not interfering with play.
.couldn’t make it up, oh hang on.


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 10:00 PM)

Seeing as it’s the football thread. Young Bradley Tash scored a goal today. A defender handled it on the way trying to stop the shot from going in. Ref cancels the goal and gives a penalty. 😳 Bradley missed it. Where’s the ruling anywhere you cancel a goal to give a penalty. 🤔😳😖
Bradley was gutted as my lad told him coz the goal was cancelled and he missed the penalty he don’t get a quid.😂😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 10:02 PM)

Tashyboy said:



			Seeing as it’s the football thread. Young Bradley Tash scored a goal today. A defender handled it on the way trying to stop the shot from going in. Ref cancels the goal and gives a penalty. 😳 Bradley missed it. Where’s the ruling anywhere you cancel a goal to give a penalty. 🤔😳😖
Bradley was gutted as my lad told him coz the goal was cancelled and he missed the penalty he don’t get a quid.😂😂😂
		
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No VAR then?
Did he blow up before the ball went in ?
Did he have a bet on the other team?

Goal before a Pen was gospel years ago.


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 10:08 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			No VAR then?
Did he blow up before the ball went in ?
Did he have a bet on the other team?

Goal before a Pen was gospel years ago.
		
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More chance of me sorting me swing out before he scores again bless him. 😁

Joking aside my lad took him to the game. He said “ he has seen more skill in the under 10’s than he saw when he was playing under 13’s.👍


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 10:11 PM)

Tashyboy said:



			More chance of me sorting me swing out before he scores again bless him. 😁

Joking aside my lad took him to the game. He said “ he has seen more skill in the under 10’s than he saw when he was playing under 13’s.👍
		
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Not from the refs obviously.
But he’s not alone given what I have seen on TV this weekend.


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## Swango1980 (Sunday at 10:20 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			If he can’t see that’s offside he shouldn’t be doing the job.
He should have put it up to let the ref know he was in an offside position initially and let VAR sort it out after the goal.
That’s how it works I think.

In the lower leagues do they let play run on until the ball is out ??
Genuine question any fans of lower league teams know?

If so it’s a two rules system depending on your level of play.

I agree on it being a joke.
		
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I notice a couple of pages of replies have come in, so maybe someone also responded (haven't yet read them)

But, it WASN'T offside. That is the entire point. That is why VAR didn't overrule it after, which it would have done if linesman made a mistake. 

The offside rule says Salah is no longer offside once defender intentionally plays it. End off. The linesman shouldn't put his flag up simply because Salah is in offside position, because he is not guilty of a breach of offside unless he touches the ball without defender intentionally playing it beforehand. 

It is a garbage rule, but linesman was spot on as far as that rule is concerned. VAR or no VAR


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## Billysboots (Sunday at 10:32 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			I notice a couple of pages of replies have come in, so maybe someone also responded (haven't yet read them)

But, it WASN'T offside. That is the entire point. That is why VAR didn't overrule it after, which it would have done if linesman made a mistake. 

The offside rule says Salah is no longer offside once defender intentionally plays it. End off. The linesman shouldn't put his flag up simply because Salah is in offside position, because he is not guilty of a breach of offside unless he touches the ball without defender intentionally playing it beforehand. 

It is a garbage rule, but linesman was spot on as far as that rule is concerned. VAR or no VAR
		
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Agreed, but I also agree the rule is appalling. It would have been even more messy had the defender been aware of Salah (he was actually behind him so not in view), because surely the argument would then be raised that the defender knew he had to attempt a clearance and, as a direct consequence of knowing that, it must surely follow that Salah was interfering with play and as such was offside.

I really don’t buy this nonsense that a glancing header by the defender starts a new phase of play. It’s a ridiculously over complicated rule which is in desperate need of being stripped back to basics with some old fashioned common sense being applied.


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## Swango1980 (Sunday at 10:39 PM)

Billysboots said:



			Agreed, but I also agree the rule is appalling. It would have been even more messy had the defender been aware of Salah (he was actually behind him so not in view), because surely the argument would then be raised that the defender knew he had to attempt a clearance and, as a direct consequence of knowing that, it must surely follow that Salah was interfering with play and as such was offside.

I really don’t buy this nonsense that a glancing header by the defender starts a new phase of play. It’s a ridiculously over complicated rule which is in desperate need of being stripped back to basics with some old fashioned common sense being applied.
		
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I completely agree. Sounds like everyone in here does.

As far as rules go, Salah wasn't offside and linesman got it spot on.

But, also as far as rule goes, it is garbage. Salah well and truly, categorically, 100% benefitted from being in an offside position.


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 10:50 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			I completely agree. Sounds like everyone in here does.

As far as rules go, Salah wasn't offside and linesman got it spot on.

But, also as far as rule goes, it is garbage. Salah well and truly, categorically, 100% benefitted from being in an offside position.
		
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sadly we are talking about Salah in an offside position. If it was Nunez we would have had 4 pages of another miss and not 4 pages of VAR 😉


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## Swango1980 (Sunday at 10:53 PM)

Tashyboy said:



			sadly we are talking about Salah in an offside position. If it was Nunez we would have had 4 pages of another miss and not 4 pages of VAR 😉
		
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Nunez would have been begging for it to be offside, save his blushes


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## clubchamp98 (Sunday at 10:54 PM)

Tashyboy said:



			sadly we are talking about Salah in an offside position. If it was Nunez we would have had 4 pages of another miss and not 4 pages of VAR 😉
		
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You are aware Nunez scored in this game


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## Tashyboy (Sunday at 11:01 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			You are aware Nunez scored in this game 

Click to expand...

I saw it, it was the second best shinned goal I have seen after Rooneys overhead shin kick v City 😁

That aside it’s the golf monthly forum and facts should not get in the way of a good tale. 😉😁


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 12:22 AM)

Tashyboy said:



			I saw it, it was the second best shinned goal I have seen after Rooneys overhead shin kick v City 😁

That aside it’s the golf monthly forum and facts should not get in the way of a good tale. 😉😁
		
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I have come to learn that.


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 6:31 AM)

clubchamp98 said:



			You are aware Nunez scored in this game 

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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.


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## Bdill93 (Monday at 9:58 AM)

Aston Vil-LOL 

Absolute embarrassment - nothing more to say.


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## Lord Tyrion (Monday at 10:06 AM)

Bdill93 said:



			Aston Vil-LOL

Absolute embarrassment - nothing more to say.
		
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When the media roll out the whole 'magic of the cup', 'big cup upset' etc, it really doesn't stand up anymore. Sheff Wed beat Newcastle reserves on Saturday, where is the magic or upset in that? How many reserves played for Villa yesterday? The hype really does not match the reality any more, hasn't done for many years. I've no doubt you would rather have won but the owners won't be losing sleep about the result.


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## fundy (Monday at 10:08 AM)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When the media roll out the whole 'magic of the cup', 'big cup upset' etc, it really doesn't stand up anymore. Sheff Wed beat Newcastle reserves on Saturday, where is the magic or upset in that? How many reserves played for Villa yesterday? The hype really does not match the reality any more, hasn't done for many years. I've no doubt you would rather have won but the owners won't be losing sleep about the result.
		
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Newcastle reserves is stretching it a little, a few first teamers in the start XI and all the big guns came off the bench after an hour when they were losing, Sheff Wed deserve far more credit based on what I saw of the game, Windass was superb as was McGuinness at the back.


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## Lord Tyrion (Monday at 10:12 AM)

fundy said:



			Newcastle reserves is stretching it a little, a few first teamers in the start XI and all the big guns came off the bench after an hour when they were losing, Sheff Wed deserve far more credit based on what I saw of the game, Windass was superb as was McGuinness at the back.
		
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I'm not taking anything away from Sheff Wed but to claim it was a big upset doesn't stack up. Newcastle's priority right now is the game on Tuesday, QF of the Carabou Cup. Next up is the league game on Sunday. There is no way the starting 11 on Saturday starts on Tuesday. A few might but most will be on the bench. In the past, the full 1st team would have started every cup game.

I've just checked the line up. Botman, Longstaff & Joelinton are regulars. Isaak will become one but this was his first game back after a long injury. The rest are bench warmers.


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## fundy (Monday at 10:13 AM)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not taking anything away from Sheff Wed but to claim it was a big upset doesn't stack up. Newcastle's priority right now is the game on Tuesday, QF of the Carabou Cup. Next up is the league game on Sunday. There is no way the starting 11 on Saturday starts on Tuesday. A few might but most will be on the bench. In the past, the full 1st team would have started every cup game.
		
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Its still a decent upset, a side 2 leagues lower against one of the richest premier league sides in the top 3 currently who put out a pretty strong squad for the game

Lets hope Oxford do the same tonight.........


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## Lord Tyrion (Monday at 10:17 AM)

fundy said:



			Its still a decent upset, a side 2 leagues lower against one of the richest premier league sides in the top 3 currently who put out a pretty strong squad for the game

Lets hope Oxford do the same tonight......... 

Click to expand...

It's great for Sheff Wed, they certainly need the money more than Newcastle. Next round v Fleetwood, a great chance for them to go further. For Howe, it shows him which players he needs to move on in the summer, maybe even this window.

I'm guessing you won't mind going out tonight? Winning the league is more important than tiring the squad in the cup. You don't have a massive squad, so rest is better I'd say.


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## fundy (Monday at 10:20 AM)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's great for Sheff Wed, they certainly need the money more than Newcastle. Next round v Fleetwood, a great chance for them to go further. For Howe, it shows him which players he needs to move on in the summer, maybe even this window.

I'm guessing you won't mind going out tonight? Winning the league is more important than tiring the squad in the cup. You don't have a massive squad, so rest is better I'd say.
		
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Yep, hate saying it but especially with the next round being City away happily have just the league and Europe left to blow. Expect Arteta puts out a hybrid side a bit like Newcastle did and hopes its enough whilst a few get a rest if it goes OK


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## Orikoru (Monday at 10:30 AM)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 45871


That’s the extract from the offside rule *- if the defender had left it then he would be offside*

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The defender cannot just gamble on the fact someone might be offside and leave the ball though can he?? It's an absolutely flipping joke of a rule. I honestly can't understand how they've buggered the rules up to such a degree nowadays that they're ruining the game. It should be simple. If you're offside when someone tries to pass it to you, you're offside. Why can't it just be that?? It makes me want to cry.


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## Bdill93 (Monday at 10:33 AM)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When the media roll out the whole 'magic of the cup', 'big cup upset' etc, it really doesn't stand up anymore. Sheff Wed beat Newcastle reserves on Saturday, where is the magic or upset in that? How many reserves played for Villa yesterday? The hype really does not match the reality any more, hasn't done for many years. I've no doubt you would rather have won but the owners won't be losing sleep about the result.
		
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More first team players than youd think mate...

Backup GK
Starting RB (Cash), Backup CB, Backup CB, Backup LB
Starting CM (Douglas Luiz), Backup, Backup
Staring RW (Bailey) Ings at ST and Coutinho on the left... 

More than enough to beat a team in league 2 on paper, but football isnt played on paper and our forwards just could not break Stevenage down.

Absolutely Abysmal


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 10:36 AM)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's great for Sheff Wed, they certainly need the money more than Newcastle. Next round v Fleetwood, a great chance for them to go further. For Howe, it shows him which players he needs to move on in the summer, maybe even this window.

I'm guessing you won't mind going out tonight? Winning the league is more important than tiring the squad in the cup. You don't have a massive squad, so rest is better I'd say.
		
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One of my whatsApp groups includes a Sheff Wed season ticket holder and a Newcastle fan. There was a bit of banter before and during the game. They both discussed before the game they have weakened sides, especially Newcastle, as "both teams have got bigger fish to fry" - Sheff Wed fan. The Newcastle fan said they have a game on Tuesday they need to win, so they were never going to play a strong team. The Wednesday fan said they need to be ready for Wycombe next week. The Newcastle fan said he'd take champs league qualification over FA Cup all day long and was happy they were out (granted, that bit was said after the game, so might have been easier to say).

So, what you say is very true. Decades ago, the FA Cup was big. For me, it was probably the only real football domestic football I got to see live on TV (along with mid week European games, Football Italia and England internationals). I only got to see League football on Match of the Day, so the FA Cup was a pretty rare occasion to watch live English club football for me. The FA Cup final was a big spectacle. BBC dedicated nearly the whole day to it, with the build up, the cream suits (haha), match and analysis.

Now, we are swamped with football we can watch. 4-5 league games every weekend, and maybe more midweek (or a large range of European ties to watch). We can watch live football from multiple European leagues if we want to. I do like that, but at same time it has removed the mystique from the FA Cup almost entirely. You'll still be well excited for it, if you are a small team against a massive team. You will still be happy enough if you end up winning it, just like you would the League Cup. But, all in all, it is nowhere near as appealing as it used to be, for me personally. I almost can't be bothered watching any tie, unless Man Utd are playing. Maybe I'll tune in if 2 big teams play each other, and watched Liverpool Wolves. But I tuned into Leicester game and Leeds game, and just had zero interest in staying tuned. Whereas, if it was an average Premier League game, I do tend to have more interest simply because of impact result will have on the League table, wherever that is. Even if the game itself, and the teams playing, or pretty poor.


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 10:37 AM)

Bdill93 said:



			More first team players than youd think mate...

Backup GK
Starting RB (Cash), Backup CB, Backup CB, Backup LB
Starting CM (Douglas Luiz), Backup, Backup
Staring RW (Bailey) Ings at ST and Coutinho on the left...

More than enough to beat a team in league 2 on paper, but football isnt played on paper and our forwards just could not break Stevenage down.

Absolutely Abysmal
		
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Who was the number11 ?
Probably the weakest attempt at a block I have seen for a long time for the second goal


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## Bdill93 (Monday at 10:39 AM)

clubchamp98 said:



			Who was the number11 ?
Probably the weakest attempt at a block I have seen for a long time for the second goal
		
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Watkins - came off the bench.

In all fairness I'm not sure if that was his man or not - we were down to 10 men at that point so he may have been doing Dendonker's duties in the box?


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 10:41 AM)

Bdill93 said:



			Watkins - came off the bench.

In all fairness I'm not sure if that was his man or not - we were down to 10 men at that point so he may have been doing Dendonker's duties in the box?
		
Click to expand...

He got out to him though and just turned and dangled a weak leg .
I hate that,


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## Bdill93 (Monday at 10:45 AM)

clubchamp98 said:



			He got out to him though and just turned and dangled a weak leg .
I hate that,
		
Click to expand...

Meh, we were crap from start to finish - not all on Ollie.

Coutinho needs to go, clearly not up to it any more, cant even find a gap through Stevenage


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## Tashyboy (Monday at 10:47 AM)

fundy said:



			Newcastle reserves is stretching it a little, a few first teamers in the start XI and all the big guns came off the bench after an hour when they were losing, Sheff Wed deserve far more credit based on what I saw of the game, Windass was superb as was McGuinness at the back.
		
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What I did see during the game. jolinton got in behind the defence and the centre half look like muck off a shovel to get back, he could move for a big lad.


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 10:49 AM)

Orikoru said:



			The defender cannot just gamble on the fact someone might be offside and leave the ball though can he?? It's an absolutely flipping joke of a rule. I honestly can't understand how they've buggered the rules up to such a degree nowadays that they're ruining the game. It should be simple.* If you're offside when someone tries to pass it to you, you're offside. Why can't it just be that?? It makes me want to cry*.
		
Click to expand...

I was going to say that the rule would have changed so that offsides were not given when the offside player is having no influence on the play whatsoever. Say, they might be on the side of the pitch, well away, or just purposely staying out of the action. That seems reasonable to me, as it would be really frustrating if goals were disallowed because a player was on the ground injured near the corner flag, and was offside.

However, you made a very important point, "when someone tries to pass it to you". That is a very good point. Salah scored, so clearly that is a double whammy in terms of interfering with play. However, imagine Salah didn't score, but another Liverpool player (who was onside) ended up coming through and scoring. The very fact the cross was meant for Salah, who was offside, should surely be grounds to award an offside infringement? He is clearly having an influence in play, as he influences his team mates decision to attempt the cross to him, and that influenced the defenders need to try and clear the ball.

They seem to change the rules to suit VAR. However, I don't actually see how this is a VAR issue? VAR can still judge in such things, which include common sense decisions. Are they simply trying to rewrite offside so that, eventually, they can fall upon a rule that requires no common sense or judgement, and a computer can simply give a black or white answer? Regardless of how stupid the outcome actually is at times to the human brain.


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## Neilds (Monday at 10:53 AM)

All this talk of 'resting' players and 'concentrating' on other competitions sometimes makes me laugh - especially when managers go on to complain that the team needs time to gel/player A is not match fit etc.  Anyone would think they had an excuse ready for all occasions


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 10:57 AM)

Bdill93 said:



			Meh, we were crap from start to finish - not all on Ollie.

Coutinho needs to go, clearly not up to it any more, cant even find a gap through Stevenage 

Click to expand...

Yes I have never understood why teams bring strikers back for corners.
It takes two to mark him so leave him on the half way line.
Gives the keeper a target as well if he gets the ball.


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## Orikoru (Monday at 10:58 AM)

Swango1980 said:



			I was going to say that the rule would have changed so that offsides were not given when the offside player is having no influence on the play whatsoever. Say, they might be on the side of the pitch, well away, or just purposely staying out of the action. That seems reasonable to me, as it would be really frustrating if goals were disallowed because a player was on the ground injured near the corner flag, and was offside.

However, you made a very important point, "when someone tries to pass it to you". That is a very good point. Salah scored, so clearly that is a double whammy in terms of interfering with play. However, imagine Salah didn't score, but another Liverpool player (who was onside) ended up coming through and scoring. The very fact the cross was meant for Salah, who was offside, should surely be grounds to award an offside infringement? He is clearly having an influence in play, as he influences his team mates decision to attempt the cross to him, and that influenced the defenders need to try and clear the ball.

They seem to change the rules to suit VAR. However, I don't actually see how this is a VAR issue? VAR can still judge in such things, which include common sense decisions.* Are they simply trying to rewrite offside so that, eventually, they can fall upon a rule that requires no common sense or judgement, and a computer can simply give a black or white answer?* Regardless of how stupid the outcome actually is at times to the human brain.
		
Click to expand...

I think the answer to your question in bold is yes, and since it's practically impossible to reach that stage, that's exactly why the rules are so utterly useless and incomprehensible now. I keep saying it but they completely jumped the shark with VAR. It should have just been a simple tool that allows the ref to review a decision if he chooses. Not a whole thing where everything has to be black and white, as you say, and common sense is removed somehow. You can't do that in a game as subjective and variable as football. You can say VAR has ruined football, in a roundabout way, but really it hasn't - the idiots implementing it have. There was no need to change any of the football rules to accommodate it, but they've changed several and made them abundantly worse.


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## Orikoru (Monday at 11:00 AM)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I have never understood why teams bring strikers back for corners.
It takes two to mark him so leave him on the half way line.
Gives the keeper a target as well if he gets the ball.
		
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If the striker is 6 foot 1 and good in the air it makes perfect sense to have him defend a corner. The man you leave up on the halfway line is your rapid 5'8 winger.


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 11:03 AM)

Orikoru said:



			I think the answer to your question in bold is yes, and since it's practically impossible to reach that stage, that's exactly why the rules are so utterly useless and incomprehensible now. I keep saying it but they completely jumped the shark with VAR. It should have just been a simple tool that allows the ref to review a decision if he chooses. Not a whole thing where everything has to be black and white, as you say, and common sense is removed somehow. You can't do that in a game as subjective and variable as football. You can say VAR has ruined football, in a roundabout way, but really it hasn't - the idiots implementing it have. There was no need to change any of the football rules to accommodate it, but they've changed several and made them abundantly worse.
		
Click to expand...

If the answer is Yes, they better think about giving VAR a camera that covers the entire width of the pitch


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 11:07 AM)

Swango1980 said:



			I was going to say that the rule would have changed so that offsides were not given when the offside player is having no influence on the play whatsoever. Say, they might be on the side of the pitch, well away, or just purposely staying out of the action. That seems reasonable to me, as it would be really frustrating if goals were disallowed because a player was on the ground injured near the corner flag, and was offside.

However, you made a very important point, "when someone tries to pass it to you". That is a very good point. Salah scored, so clearly that is a double whammy in terms of interfering with play. However, imagine Salah didn't score, but another Liverpool player (who was onside) ended up coming through and scoring. The very fact the cross was meant for Salah, who was offside, should surely be grounds to award an offside infringement? He is clearly having an influence in play, as he influences his team mates decision to attempt the cross to him, and that influenced the defenders need to try and clear the ball.

They seem to change the rules to suit VAR. However, I don't actually see how this is a VAR issue? VAR can still judge in such things, which include common sense decisions. Are they simply trying to rewrite offside so that, eventually, they can fall upon a rule that requires no common sense or judgement, and a computer can simply give a black or white answer? Regardless of how stupid the outcome actually is at times to the human brain.
		
Click to expand...

It is a VAR issue though.
The rule has changed so they can look at the replays.

When I played years ago .like you say if a ball was played to the right winger but 50yds away there was someone offside on the left wing it was given offside( silly really).
Then they changed it to only offside if the pass was meant for you.
Changed it again But this one now with phases of play ,played on by a defender is purely down to VAR so they can check they have got it correct.
They have made a complete mess of it  and handball as well.


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 11:11 AM)

Orikoru said:



			If the striker is 6 foot 1 and good in the air it makes perfect sense to have him defend a corner. The man you leave up on the halfway line is your rapid 5'8 winger.
		
Click to expand...

Have another look at Watkins challenge.
I would leave him on the halfway.
We always had a big lad and a whippet so big lad wins ball in the air.
This makes the other team leave a big lad back with him so he’s not in your box for the corner.
But tactics have evolved


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 11:14 AM)

Swango1980 said:



			If the answer is Yes, they better think about giving VAR a camera that covers the entire width of the pitch 

Click to expand...

It’s not the first time this has happened either.
Their not learning ,it’s getting worse imo.


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## Orikoru (Monday at 11:15 AM)

clubchamp98 said:



			Have another look at Watkins challenge.
I would leave him on the halfway.
We always had a big lad and a whippet so big lad wins ball in the air.
This makes the other team leave a big lad back with him so he’s not in your box for the corner.
But tactics have evolved
		
Click to expand...

I was just answering generally, I haven't seen any of that. In fact Watkins is closer to the 'rapid winger' than a traditional striker in my analogy. Agree, no point bringing him back if he's not going to be useful in clearing the ball. Harry Kane is always back for corners, but he's that good he's a better defender than most of our centre backs.


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 11:18 AM)

Orikoru said:



			I was just answering generally, I haven't seen any of that. In fact Watkins is closer to the 'rapid winger' than a traditional striker in my analogy. Agree, no point bringing him back if he's not going to be useful in clearing the ball. Harry Kane is always back for corners, but he's that good he's a better defender than most of our centre backs.
		
Click to expand...

Kane will end up in goal.
He already does the midfielder’s job.
The defenders job at corners .
Just give him the gloves for the full set.
He can still take the pens though


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## nickjdavis (Monday at 11:19 AM)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not taking anything away from Sheff Wed but to claim it was a big upset doesn't stack up. Newcastle's priority right now is the game on Tuesday, QF of the Carabou Cup. Next up is the league game on Sunday. There is no way the starting 11 on Saturday starts on Tuesday. A few might but most will be on the bench. In the past, the full 1st team would have started every cup game.

I've just checked the line up. Botman, Longstaff & Joelinton are regulars. Isaak will become one but this was his first game back after a long injury. The rest are bench warmers for the knackers yard
		
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Correction applied.

Whilst I never expected a full strength side on Saturday, the players we put out should have had enough application and ability to win. Sadly they displayed neither. Given what is happening at Newcastle, a lot of the players who played on Saturday must surely have realised that first team opportunities will become even more scarce going forward and it is likely that many dont figure in the long term plans of the club. I would have expected this to give a few of them a metaphorical kick up the arse and for them to either attempt to put on a display that either sent a message to the club saying that they could be a valuable asset going forward, or, put themselves in the shop window for other clubs going forward.

But with the possible exception of Manquillo, they didnt.

Wood, Lewis, Murphy, Ritchie, Lascelles, Longstaff, all need to be shown the door (probably Frazer too but he didnt play...though maybe that says plenty in its own right). The young kid Elliot Anderson needs to go out on loan, he is plainly not up to standard and is not getting any game time at reserve level, he needs to play to develop. Quite simply, outside the first 15 players, the squad depth is  largely non existent and depending on what happens over the next three weeks during the transfer window, I for one do not expect us to hold on to a top four finish...even top six might be a struggle if things go against us and we don't strengthen the squad depth.

I personally would happily take 7th but I know there would be a backlash from the "short term memory brigade" who now firmly believe we have gate crashed the big six and should be pushing for CL football and anything less will now be a failure. (I've read comments that Carabao Cup QF tomorrow night should not have influenced the team selection for Saturday just gone and its an insignificant competition that we shouldnt be concerned about - there are some right idiots about).


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 11:23 AM)

nickjdavis said:



			Correction applied.

Whilst I never expected a full strength side on Saturday, the players we put out should have had enough application and ability to win. Sadly they displayed neither. Given what is happening at Newcastle, a lot of the players who played on Saturday must surely have realised that first team opportunities will become even more scarce going forward and it is likely that many dont figure in the long term plans of the club. I would have expected this to give a few of them a metaphorical kick up the arse and for them to either attempt to put on a display that either sent a message to the club saying that they could be a valuable asset going forward, or, put themselves in the shop window for other clubs going forward.

But with the possible exception of Manquillo, they didnt.

Wood, Lewis, Murphy, Ritchie, Lascelles, Longstaff, all need to be shown the door (probably Frazer too but he didnt play...though maybe that says plenty in its own right). The young kid Elliot Anderson needs to go out on loan, he is plainly not up to standard and is not getting any game time at reserve level, he needs to play to develop. Quite simply, outside the first 15 players, the squad depth is  largely non existent and depending on what happens over the next three weeks during the transfer window, I for one do not expect us to hold on to a top four finish...even top six might be a struggle if things go against us and we don't strengthen the squad depth.

I personally would happily take 7th but I know there would be a backlash from the "short term memory brigade" who now firmly believe we have gate crashed the big six and should be pushing for CL football and anything less will now be a failure. (I've read comments that Carabao Cup QF tomorrow night should not have influenced the team selection for Saturday just gone and its an insignificant competition that we should be concerned about - there are some right idiots about).
		
Click to expand...

I watched this game and have to say I totally agree with you.
Some of the finishing was abysmal for a PL team.


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## Orikoru (Monday at 11:28 AM)

clubchamp98 said:



			Kane will end up in goal.
He already does the midfielder’s job.
The defenders job at corners .
Just give him the gloves for the full set.
He can still take the pens though 

Click to expand...

It's already happened, don't you remember? 






I guess it's the one position he has no future in.


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## Lord Tyrion (Monday at 11:36 AM)

@nickjdavis  Cracking summary. Howe is doing  a great job of evolving the team, wholesale changes rarely work. Expect to see most of those gone in the summer I reckon. 

Totally agree about Anderson. There were a lot of noises about him at the start of the season but he has just lost the last few months. He would be far better out on loan playing week after week. 

You are about 2 years ahead of schedule right now, the depth of the squad will take some catching up, understandably.


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## Liverpoolphil (Monday at 11:36 AM)

Orikoru said:



			The defender cannot just gamble on the fact someone might be offside and leave the ball though can he?? It's an absolutely flipping joke of a rule. I honestly can't understand how they've buggered the rules up to such a degree nowadays that they're ruining the game. It should be simple. If you're offside when someone tries to pass it to you, you're offside. Why can't it just be that?? It makes me want to cry.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612396594229383168


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## Orikoru (Monday at 11:38 AM)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612396594229383168

Click to expand...

❓


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## Liverpoolphil (Monday at 11:46 AM)

Orikoru said:



			❓
		
Click to expand...

It’s an analysis of the VAR and offside calls that happened in the Wolves game 

And the Salah one has been going on for years -can you remember the Kane/Lovren Penalty where Kane was in an offside position


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## Bdill93 (Monday at 11:51 AM)

So let me get this straight, its offside because Liverpool have a blind spot for VAR cameras.... Class


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## Orikoru (Monday at 11:51 AM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s an analysis of the VAR and offside calls that happened in the Wolves game

And the Salah one has been going on for years -can you remember the Kane/Lovren Penalty where Kane was in an offside position
		
Click to expand...

I don't really care about the Liverpool Wolves game. I'm talking about a rule of the game that is fundamentally broken.


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## Liverpoolphil (Monday at 11:55 AM)

Bdill93 said:



			So let me get this straight, its offside because Liverpool have a blind spot for VAR cameras.... Class 

Click to expand...

It’s offside because the linesman flagged for offside and VAR camera angle couldn’t prove that the player was onside - the same with an offside in the Arsenal game a couple months back. 


Orikoru said:



			I don't really care about the Liverpool Wolves game. I'm talking about a rule of the game that is fundamentally broken.
		
Click to expand...

And I’m saying it’s a rule that’s been around for a number of years now - it’s not something that’s just been changed and it was the same debate when it happened for Spurs


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 11:55 AM)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612396594229383168

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Orikoru knows why the decisions were made:

1. Salah's goal stood because the offside rule, as written, is a farce
2. Wolves goal disallowed because the cameras used for VAR are a farce

I'm not sure you're twitter link is of any use as a response? If anything, it just clarifies what was already being said. Your link would only have been of any use had Orikoru been saying "Salah's goal should have been disallowed under the current rules", and also if he'd been saying "why did VAR not allow Wolves goal". If that is what was being said, that twitter link would have helped to clarify things, although the twitter link also repeats what was being said in here yesterday by Golf Monthly members anyway


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## Orikoru (Monday at 11:56 AM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And I’m saying it’s a rule that’s been around for a number of years now - it’s not something that’s just been changed and it was the same debate when it happened for Spurs
		
Click to expand...

Does that mean it's not rubbish then?


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## Orikoru (Monday at 12:54 PM)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612425321625657345
Hahaha! Another golden generation is about to be wasted then. How does he do it??


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 1:56 PM)

Orikoru said:



			It's already happened, don't you remember?






I guess it's the one position he has no future in. 

Click to expand...

No I don’t remember that.
So the lads a true all rounder and great player.


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 2:00 PM)

Bdill93 said:



			So let me get this straight, its offside because Liverpool have a blind spot for VAR cameras.... Class 

Click to expand...

No it was offside because the linesman actually did his job .
VAR should be binned in it’s present form.


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## Liverpoolphil (Monday at 2:30 PM)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612445335355375619
Would spurs with that big stadium debt be the sort of target for them or would look a little further down and look at a club trying to build them up in the same method as City


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## pauljames87 (Monday at 2:32 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612445335355375619
Would spurs with that big stadium debt be the sort of target for them or would look a little further down and look at a club trying to build them up in the same method as City
		
Click to expand...

Wouldnt be surprised if they came to us. Our owners can sell this year without a fine as per the agreement 

I know a few spurs fans who would love levy to leave


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## GB72 (Monday at 2:38 PM)

Asuming that they are looking at a team with a view to competing in the Champions League at some stage, are you allowed to own two teams in the same competition. Honestly do not know but it would be strange if you could.


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## Fade and Die (Monday at 2:42 PM)

pauljames87 said:



			Wouldnt be surprised if they came to us. Our owners can sell this year without a fine as per the agreement

I know a few spurs fans who would love levy to leave
		
Click to expand...


Hand on heart I hope it's not us. I would rather go down than be owned by Arabs.


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## pauljames87 (Monday at 2:47 PM)

Fade and Die said:



			Hand on heart I hope it's not us. I would rather go down than be owned by Arabs.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think it will be. We got the Czech guy owning 27% and golds shares will be sold off no doubt soon


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## Fade and Die (Monday at 2:57 PM)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't think it will be. We got the Czech guy owning 27% and golds shares will be sold off no doubt soon
		
Click to expand...


I thought that his son in law (via his daughter) might get Golds shares. He was recently appointed to the board and is a big fan apparently. Re Kretinsky, I would welcome him taking over the whole show really. Get rid of Sully and have a fresh start, lot of fans would welcome it.


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## BrianM (Monday at 3:23 PM)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612466979373461504
The legend that is Gareth Bale has retired from Football, what a player and what a career 😀


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## Lord Tyrion (Monday at 3:25 PM)

I think that is a sensible decision. Injuries have taken their toll and the World Cup was probably the confirmation he needed. He also seems to be one of the players who is not dependent on football for his life so he should transition better than most.

Great career, good luck to him.


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## Orikoru (Monday at 3:51 PM)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think that is a sensible decision. Injuries have taken their toll and the World Cup was probably the confirmation he needed. He also seems to be one of the players who is not dependent on football for his life so he should transition better than most.

Great career, good luck to him.
		
Click to expand...

Seemed pretty clear as well that he just took that short term MLS contract to keep his fitness until the World Cup. His heart's probably not in it anymore. What a player he was though. Arguably best Welsh player ever.


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## Orikoru (Monday at 3:53 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612445335355375619
*Would spurs with that big stadium debt be the sort of target for them *or would look a little further down and look at a club trying to build them up in the same method as City
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully! London-based and with a ready-made World Class stadium, what's not to like? Let's get the deal done ASAP.


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 3:54 PM)

Unbelievable player for his final years at Spurs, and great at Real Madrid. It is unfortunate, I think, he went to Madrid and was understandably always going to be in the shadow of Ronaldo, rather than going to another big team where he'd be the main man. It meant he was never going to have the full love of the Madrid support, as everything revolved around Ronaldo, and when things go wrong they were probably quicker to criticise him. Not sure if his work ethic (golf) was the driving factor of that, or their criticism was what drove him to not caring so much, and playing more golf. However, was always great to see him then show up for Wales and often show his ability, in a game where he was clearly the best player.

There was a period I always felt he was one of the best free kick takers I've seen, where I had so much more expectation he'd score than others. Again, unfortunate he went to a side where Ronaldo would have demanded to take all free kicks, I think Bale was probably better in that department.

Sad to see his final turn out for Wales at the World Cup, he was clearly nowhere near the player he was. But, he had a great decade or so of high level football. He was ridiculously quick at his peak as well, must have been one of the fastest players around.

I wonder what he'll do now, professionally? Clearly he'll be playing a lot of golf, maybe we'll see him in some pro-AMs (not sure if he played any before). Guessing he'll not bother with management, coaching or punditry (maybe he'll dip his toes in the water every now and then, if Wales are playing)


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## babylonsinger (Monday at 3:55 PM)

No argument in my mind - up there with the greatest sportsmen we have produced. Privileged to have been in the stands watching him as he gave us numerous great moments. Gave his all for Wales as evidenced by him dragging himself through the playoffs injured. Perfect time for him to retire with his status in Welsh football almost untouchable


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## Bdill93 (Monday at 4:04 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			Unbelievable player for his final years at Spurs, and great at Real Madrid. It is unfortunate, I think, he went to Madrid and was understandably always going to be in the shadow of Ronaldo, rather than going to another big team where he'd be the main man. It meant he was never going to have the full love of the Madrid support, as everything revolved around Ronaldo, and when things go wrong they were probably quicker to criticise him. Not sure if his work ethic (golf) was the driving factor of that, or their criticism was what drove him to not caring so much, and playing more golf. However, was always great to see him then show up for Wales and often show his ability, in a game where he was clearly the best player.

There was a period I always felt he was one of the best free kick takers I've seen, where I had so much more expectation he'd score than others. Again, unfortunate he went to a side where Ronaldo would have demanded to take all free kicks, I think Bale was probably better in that department.

Sad to see his final turn out for Wales at the World Cup, he was clearly nowhere near the player he was. But, he had a great decade or so of high level football. He was ridiculously quick at his peak as well, must have been one of the fastest players around.

I wonder what he'll do now, professionally? Clearly he'll be playing a lot of golf, maybe we'll see him in some pro-AMs (not sure if he played any before). Guessing he'll not bother with management, coaching or punditry (maybe he'll dip his toes in the water every now and then, if Wales are playing)
		
Click to expand...

Probably never needs to work another day in his life... I reckon he moves back home and chills to be honest! Doesn't strike me as a pundit - players often dip their toes in before retiring if they have an interest in going in that direction


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## Orikoru (Monday at 4:09 PM)

Bdill93 said:



			Probably never needs to work another day in his life... I reckon he moves back home and chills to be honest! Doesn't strike me as a pundit - players often dip their toes in before retiring if they have an interest in going in that direction
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, he'll probably buy a golf club in Wales or something. Maybe start a golf YouTube channel.


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## Tashyboy (Monday at 4:35 PM)

nickjdavis said:



			Correction applied.

Whilst I never expected a full strength side on Saturday, the players we put out should have had enough application and ability to win. Sadly they displayed neither. Given what is happening at Newcastle, a lot of the players who played on Saturday must surely have realised that first team opportunities will become even more scarce going forward and it is likely that many dont figure in the long term plans of the club. I would have expected this to give a few of them a metaphorical kick up the arse and for them to either attempt to put on a display that either sent a message to the club saying that they could be a valuable asset going forward, or, put themselves in the shop window for other clubs going forward.

But with the possible exception of Manquillo, they didnt.

Wood, Lewis, Murphy, Ritchie, Lascelles, Longstaff, all need to be shown the door (probably Frazer too but he didnt play...though maybe that says plenty in its own right). The young kid Elliot Anderson needs to go out on loan, he is plainly not up to standard and is not getting any game time at reserve level, he needs to play to develop. Quite simply, outside the first 15 players, the squad depth is  largely non existent and depending on what happens over the next three weeks during the transfer window, I for one do not expect us to hold on to a top four finish...even top six might be a struggle if things go against us and we don't strengthen the squad depth.

I personally would happily take 7th but I know there would be a backlash from the "short term memory brigade" who now firmly believe we have gate crashed the big six and should be pushing for CL football and anything less will now be a failure. (I've read comments that Carabao Cup QF tomorrow night should not have influenced the team selection for Saturday just gone and its an insignificant competition that we shouldnt be concerned about - there are some right idiots about).
		
Click to expand...

I personally am keeping a very close eye on how Newcastle do. I hope they do very well. I have an affection for the Georgie fans. They were passionate as kids back in the seventies and that has stuck with me. Watching Newcastle now is a mirror image of what City were like when the Arabs bought into City.
Before the new owners bought into Newcastle I suspect that should Newcastle of gone out on Saturday there May well of been a feeling that’s just how things are. But with new owners and money, a fan’s expectations are higher. And rightly so. Players that would of been acceptable over the last couple of years, now need to up there game. It’s not just that but so has the manager. And at the moment He has more than done that. 
This season has got easier for Newcastle now. The priority is the league, however that first trip to Wembley is getting closer. I don’t care if it is the league cup or Fa cup. It’s Wembley and a day out for the fans. If Newcastle as expected qualify for the Champs league. Newcastle need to massively strengthen there squad as Prem football and champs league in the same weeks is brutal. Going out of the FA cup has done Newcastle a big favour this season. At the moment Newcastle have a max 23 games to the end of the season. City and others could have 30 plus. Also as you mention it gives Newcastle time to see what players need to be shipped out.


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 4:52 PM)

Bdill93 said:



*Probably never needs to work another day in his life*... I reckon he moves back home and chills to be honest! Doesn't strike me as a pundit - players often dip their toes in before retiring if they have an interest in going in that direction
		
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I wouldn't be so sure. Apparently he only has a net worth of $145 million. He could struggle 

He could probably double his net worth by going to play in Saudi Arabia for a year. Apparently there are only 10 golf courses in Saudi Arabia, so that might have been a deciding factor not to go


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## Lord Tyrion (Monday at 4:55 PM)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, he'll probably buy a golf club in Wales or something. Maybe start a golf YouTube channel. 

Click to expand...

He has a couple of sports bars already I think, including interactive golf bits. One in Cardiff, one in Bristol. Not that I'm expecting him to be pouring pints or clearing tables but he some things on the go even at this stage.


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## fundy (Monday at 5:19 PM)

sounds like Joao Felix is going to Chelsea


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## Orikoru (Monday at 5:31 PM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just the £1bn of debt to worry about for them - hence as someone said West Ham could be a better proposition for them
		
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But West Ham are rubbish and have the worst stadium on earth. Qataris can write off a billion as soon as click their fingers.



fundy said:



			sounds like Joao Felix is going to Chelsea
		
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Why? Is he being punished?


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## Fade and Die (Monday at 5:39 PM)

Orikoru said:



			But West Ham are rubbish and have the worst stadium on earth. Qataris can write off a billion as soon as click their fingers.
?
		
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All fixable with a zillion pounds 😁


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## pauljames87 (Monday at 5:41 PM)

Orikoru said:



			But West Ham are rubbish and have the worst stadium on earth. Qataris can write off a billion as soon as click their fingers.



Why? Is he being punished?
		
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Under ffp can they write off debt? I don't know how it works anymore


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## Orikoru (Monday at 5:49 PM)

pauljames87 said:



			Under ffp can they write off debt? I don't know how it works anymore
		
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Can do whatever they want just like City do, surely?


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## sunshine (Monday at 5:51 PM)

pauljames87 said:



			Under ffp can they write off debt? I don't know how it works anymore
		
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You can do anything with billions of dollars


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## Billysboots (Monday at 6:30 PM)

fundy said:



			sounds like Joao Felix is going to Chelsea
		
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Slightly miffed that it is being reported that Chelsea have “beaten” United to this signing. United need a striker who can lead the line - Felix is absolutely not that type of player. Might it not just be United aren’t interested?

🙄


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 6:53 PM)

Orikoru said:



			Can do whatever they want just like City do, surely?
		
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If they use City’s accountant’s they should be fine.


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 6:54 PM)

Billysboots said:



			Slightly miffed that it is being reported that Chelsea have “beaten” United to this signing. United need a striker who can lead the line - Felix is absolutely not that type of player. Might it not just be United aren’t interested?

🙄
		
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Maybe the player isn't, or the money being asked for is silly high? Not seen him play much, but sounds like a player who I'd be enthusiastic to see.

Maybe we should try for Ighalo again


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## fundy (Monday at 6:54 PM)

Billysboots said:



			Slightly miffed that it is being reported that Chelsea have “beaten” United to this signing. United need a striker who can lead the line - Felix is absolutely not that type of player. Might it not just be United aren’t interested?

🙄
		
Click to expand...


Expert we may be more interested than you, but seems Chelsea are going to be in the market every time we are and prepared to pay more. I like Felix but more interested to see what happens with Mudryk as definitely a longer term option

On the plus side seems no one else is in for Weghorst


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## Dando (Monday at 7:00 PM)

*Jamie O’Hara believes that Manchester City would be ‘a better team’ if they had signed Harry Kane instead of Erling Haaland.*

Someone’s been on the waccy baccy


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## Billysboots (Monday at 7:30 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			Maybe the player isn't, or the money being asked for is silly high? Not seen him play much, but sounds like a player who I'd be enthusiastic to see.

Maybe we should try for Ighalo again 

Click to expand...

No doubting his quality, but he can’t really play as a 9, which is what we really need. Felix needs a strike partner or, failing that, to drop deep into positions we already have filled. I’m a little surprised we’ve been linked with him to the extent we have, to be honest.


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## fundy (Monday at 7:47 PM)

Utterly amazed Saka isnt getting a rest tonight


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## Slime (Monday at 7:53 PM)

fundy said:



			Utterly amazed Saka isnt getting a rest tonight
		
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Yeah, me too.
Arsenal are only a couple of key injuries away from disaster, I'd have thought.


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## Billysboots (Monday at 7:58 PM)

Losing Saka would be a massive blow to their title hopes. Really surprised Arteta isn’t throwing all his eggs in the Premier League basket, especially in relation to this particular game.


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 8:17 PM)

Dando said:



*Jamie O’Hara believes that Manchester City would be ‘a better team’ if they had signed Harry Kane instead of Erling Haaland.*

Someone’s been on the waccy baccy
		
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Mica Richards more or less said the same yesterday.
I think they do play differently when Haarland plays but you can’t argue with 20 odd goals,


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 8:24 PM)

Dando said:



*Jamie O’Hara believes that Manchester City would be ‘a better team’ if they had signed Harry Kane instead of Erling Haaland.*

Someone’s been on the waccy baccy
		
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Well, Ronaldo scored a decent number of goals for Man Utd last season, and yet apparently he was the problem.

So, I guess scoring goals isn't as important to some people


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 8:28 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, Ronaldo scored a decent number of goals for Man Utd last season, and yet apparently he was the problem.

So, I guess scoring goals isn't as important to some people 

Click to expand...

It’s ok if you can score four goals without him.


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## IanM (Monday at 8:29 PM)

Arsenal have been practicing falling down holding their face... clever.


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 8:30 PM)

IanM said:



			Arsenal have been practicing falling down holding their face... clever.
		
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Is Wenger back coaching.


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## paddyc (Monday at 8:34 PM)

fundy said:



			Utterly amazed Saka isnt getting a rest tonight
		
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Crazy IMO and Martinelli and Nketiah considering  we have Spurs on .Sunday. I thought ESR was going to start and would have given Marquinhos a full game along with the young guns.


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## fundy (Monday at 8:36 PM)

paddyc said:



			Crazy IMO and Martinelli and Nketiah considering  we have Spurs on .Sunday. I thought ESR was going to start and would have given Marquinhos a full game along with the young guns.
		
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Smith Rowe not ready to start on all accounts, may get a few minutes late on, Arteta doesnt trust Marquinhos at all it seems. Cant be as bad as Lokonga though surely........


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## nickjdavis (Monday at 8:36 PM)

Arsenal fans can thank me ....just turned the telly over after half an hour of tedium....goals will no doubt now flow.


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## Billysboots (Monday at 8:39 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, Ronaldo scored a decent number of goals for Man Utd last season, and yet apparently he was the problem.

So, I guess scoring goals isn't as important to some people 

Click to expand...

There really can’t be any denying that United look a far more cohesive team this season than they did last. I’m yet to read or hear a single pundit suggest otherwise.

Yes, the goals for column is an issue, but the fact they are sitting 4th, only four points off City in 2nd, all despite a goal difference of +7, surely indicates that they are very much on the right path.

Last season we were absolutely all over the place all over the pitch. Dreadful performances week in, week out. No Plan A, never mind a Plan B. The difference this season so far has been vast. And the games in which we have performed most poorly? Those when Ronaldo was involved.

If and when we sign a goal scorer, then providing that player subscribes to what the manager is striving to achieve in terms of discipline and work ethic, then we will undoubtedly go from strength to strength. Ronaldo, despite his goals, absolutely wasn’t that player.


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## Billysboots (Monday at 8:47 PM)

Well, that’s 45 minutes of my life I’m not getting back.


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## clubchamp98 (Monday at 8:48 PM)

Strange that in the Oxford game tonight the offside flag goes up straight away when the balls played.
Different rules tonight with no VAR.
No phases of play either miles better ,striker is clean through on goal but offside flag goes up.
With VAR that’s let go ,so two sets of rules.


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## BrianM (Monday at 8:49 PM)

Terrible game, I’ve actually switched it over 🙈🙈


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## Tashyboy (Monday at 8:51 PM)

Billysboots said:



			Well, that’s 45 minutes of my life I’m not getting back.
		
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now you know how I felt following City in the 80’s and 90’s 😖


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 9:16 PM)

Billysboots said:



			There really can’t be any denying that United look a far more cohesive team this season than they did last. I’m yet to read or hear a single pundit suggest otherwise.

Yes, the goals for column is an issue, but the fact they are sitting 4th, only four points off City in 2nd, all despite a goal difference of +7, surely indicates that they are very much on the right path.

Last season we were absolutely all over the place all over the pitch. Dreadful performances week in, week out. No Plan A, never mind a Plan B. The difference this season so far has been vast. And the games in which we have performed most poorly? Those when Ronaldo was involved.

If and when we sign a goal scorer, then providing that player subscribes to what the manager is striving to achieve in terms of discipline and work ethic, then we will undoubtedly go from strength to strength. Ronaldo, despite his goals, absolutely wasn’t that player.
		
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Yes, but we had Ole as manager, then a part time manager. Our biggest asset this year is ten Hag.

Ronaldo certainly became a problem when he said he wanted to leave, and all the other nonsense that followed.


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## Swango1980 (Monday at 9:20 PM)

So, a player is offside if a player is ahead of the ball, regardless whether the ball.is played forward or not. Offside offence is then given if that player interferes with play (unless that garbage of defender deliberately playing ball first).

If that is the case, how can an Arsenal player place himself in the actual goal (over the goal line) to make himself a nuisance, when Arsenal have a corner? And ref ignores it?


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## fundy (Monday at 9:49 PM)

Much better 2nd half


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## Orikoru (Tuesday at 8:45 AM)

Dando said:



*Jamie O’Hara believes that Manchester City would be ‘a better team’ if they had signed Harry Kane instead of Erling Haaland.*

Someone’s been on the waccy baccy
		
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As much as we all know O'Hara is a knob, it's not a _completely_ ridiculous thing to say. As I said a few weeks ago, you'd have thought adding Haaland into that team would have made them unstoppable, but despite all his goals, it hasn't done. Perhaps the other players have struggled a little bit to adjust to having one focal point to the attack rather than several, like they had before. Perhaps it's made them a little more predictable or one-dimensional. So if Haaland isn't quite at his best for a game (let's say he only scores _one_ goal 😆) then it gives the defence a chance of stopping him.

Kane on the other hand is a complete footballer, so while he wouldn't score as many as Haaland (who would?) he might have blended more seamlessly with the team that City had, since he's able to get involved more in the actual football and contribute more for others.


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## Tashyboy (Tuesday at 9:57 AM)

Orikoru said:



			As much as we all know O'Hara is a knob, it's not a _completely_ ridiculous thing to say. As I said a few weeks ago, you'd have thought adding Haaland into that team would have made them unstoppable, but despite all his goals, it hasn't done. Perhaps the other players have struggled a little bit to adjust to having one focal point to the attack rather than several, like they had before. Perhaps it's made them a little more predictable or one-dimensional. So if Haaland isn't quite at his best for a game (let's say he only scores _one_ goal 😆) then it gives the defence a chance of stopping him.

Kane on the other hand is a complete footballer, so while he wouldn't score as many as Haaland (who would?) he might have blended more seamlessly with the team that City had, since he's able to get involved more in the actual football and contribute more for others.
		
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Citys last two games were against Chelsea, won the first 1-0 with Haaland in the team, second game 4-0 without Haaland. One could suggest looking at the scores City are better without Haaland. But there was so much more going off than just Haaland.Citys set up in the first game was an issue. City can score goals with and without Haaland but at the moment the team have been very hit and miss. Yet since the return from World Cup City have played 5 games and won 4 draw v Everton and concede 4 with a dodgy defence🤔
The comparison between Kane and Haaland is like comparing a Lamboghini to a Ferrari. The only difference is that one is 29 yrs old and the other is 22 so the sell on fee between the two will be significant, unless either sees out there contract.


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## clubchamp98 (Tuesday at 10:00 AM)

Orikoru said:



			As much as we all know O'Hara is a knob, it's not a _completely_ ridiculous thing to say. As I said a few weeks ago, you'd have thought adding Haaland into that team would have made them unstoppable, but despite all his goals, it hasn't done. Perhaps the other players have struggled a little bit to adjust to having one focal point to the attack rather than several, like they had before. Perhaps it's made them a little more predictable or one-dimensional. So if Haaland isn't quite at his best for a game (let's say he only scores _one_ goal 😆) then it gives the defence a chance of stopping him.

Kane on the other hand is a complete footballer, so while he wouldn't score as many as Haaland (who would?) he might have blended more seamlessly with the team that City had, since he's able to get involved more in the actual football and contribute more for others.
		
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If Kane played in that City team I think he would score as many.
He would spend more time in the box.
As City’s midfield dosnt need him to drop back the way he does for spurs.
But would depend what Pep wanted him to do.


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## Swango1980 (Tuesday at 10:14 AM)

clubchamp98 said:



			If Kane played in that City team I think he would score as many.
He would spend more time in the box.
As City’s midfield dosnt need him to drop back the way he does for spurs.
But would depend what Pep wanted him to do.
		
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I'd take Kane at Man Utd in a heartbeat (mind you, I'd also take Haaland). I know he is 29, but thankfully a player that doesn't rely on pace, so if he stays away from injuries he could have a good few years yet. Not only would he be great in the box, and players would be more willing to cross, but he could also drop deep and plays in the some of the more direct / pacey wide players.

It is a pipe dream though. Looks like we are currently more focused on Burnley player who scored a goal every 10 games in the league (granted, that might be harsh, as he plays for the Netherlands and has other qualities that would be useful in the side)


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## pauljames87 (Tuesday at 10:29 AM)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd take Kane at Man Utd in a heartbeat (mind you, I'd also take Haaland). I know he is 29, but thankfully a player that doesn't rely on pace, so if he stays away from injuries he could have a good few years yet. Not only would he be great in the box, and players would be more willing to cross, but he could also drop deep and plays in the some of the more direct / pacey wide players.

It is a pipe dream though. Looks like we are currently more focused on Burnley player who scored a goal every 10 games in the league (granted, that might be harsh, as he plays for the Netherlands and has other qualities that would be useful in the side)
		
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Sometimes tho players don't set the world alight in "lesser" teams but put in a quality side they perform a lot better 

I mean lampard and Chelsea spring to mind 

He was alright for us , ok for Chelsea first couple years just a solid midfielder 

Then the money arrived, the players arrived and book he is transformed

Did anyone think VVD was that world class at Southampton?

Did anyone think Rio was world class at West ham 

Not saying this guy is but just examples


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## Swango1980 (Tuesday at 10:59 AM)

pauljames87 said:



			Sometimes tho players don't set the world alight in "lesser" teams but put in a quality side they perform a lot better

I mean lampard and Chelsea spring to mind

He was alright for us , ok for Chelsea first couple years just a solid midfielder

Then the money arrived, the players arrived and book he is transformed

Did anyone think VVD was that world class at Southampton?

Did anyone think Rio was world class at West ham

Not saying this guy is but just examples
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. And, as I assume Ten Hag now has a big influence in who comes in and who goes out now, I know he knows the player much more than me, and certainly knows how he could benefit the team. So, if he is a player we do sign, I will have reasonable confidence he'd do a good job (albeit any signing is a risk). And I certainly believe that we should be in a much better position with him than without, as it is a much bigger risk relying on Martial up front on his own for the remainder of the season.

I also agree some players who have a very good impact at big teams, may not do so at lesser sides. I tried to imagine Gabriel Jesus or Giroud at Burnley, and could easily see them having a baron scoring spell over 20 games, yet still good players that could do a job for big teams.

Mind you, I personally thought Van Dijk was class at Southampton. I was always saddened that United didn't seem to compete with Liverpool for his signing, given I think we had Smalling and Jones at the time. 

And, Rio Ferdinand was only about 21 when he left West Ham. He was a young lad, but it must have been pretty quick that people thought he'd be World Class as he left for a British Transfer record at the time to Leeds. Think Lampard was about 23 when he went to Chelsea, so still pretty young, but by that point went for a decent fee for that day and age I guess. The difference with Weghorst is that he is now 30 years old. However, I still agree with you as I said, the team you play in can make a big difference to your contribution.


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## clubchamp98 (Tuesday at 3:31 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd take Kane at Man Utd in a heartbeat (mind you, I'd also take Haaland). I know he is 29, but thankfully a player that doesn't rely on pace, so if he stays away from injuries he could have a good few years yet. Not only would he be great in the box, and players would be more willing to cross, but he could also drop deep and plays in the some of the more direct / pacey wide players.

It is a pipe dream though. Looks like we are currently more focused on Burnley player who scored a goal every 10 games in the league (granted, that might be harsh, as he plays for the Netherlands and has other qualities that would be useful in the side)
		
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I would have him in Liverpools team in a heartbeat.
Even dropping deep he does what Firmino does but can finish as well.
Not my preference but it’s effective.
The chances we make he would score a bagful.


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## clubchamp98 (Tuesday at 3:32 PM)

pauljames87 said:



			Sometimes tho players don't set the world alight in "lesser" teams but put in a quality side they perform a lot better

I mean lampard and Chelsea spring to mind

He was alright for us , ok for Chelsea first couple years just a solid midfielder

Then the money arrived, the players arrived and book he is transformed

Did anyone think VVD was that world class at Southampton?

Did anyone think Rio was world class at West ham

Not saying this guy is but just examples
		
Click to expand...

Klopp did that’s why he waited for VVD.


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## pauljames87 (Tuesday at 3:44 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			Klopp did that’s why he waited for VVD.
		
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No I get that lol but he had an eye for him 

Not many saw him at Celtic and thought ah he is my missing piece but klopp did.

Jota is another one. Someone told me his stats are similar to mane in terms of work rate and chances created per game so he has been highlighted to do a job 

Same with like Robertson .. put him in average premier league team he is an average to good left back 

Put him in a good team with great players around him he becomes an amazing full back


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## hairball_89 (Tuesday at 4:08 PM)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would have him in Liverpools team in a heartbeat.
Even dropping deep he does what Firmino does but can finish as well.
Not my preference but it’s effective.
The chances we make he would score a bagful.
		
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Absolutely, would have him straight away. He's a wonderful player. But... All the time he's at Spurs I'll be calling him varying words for rubbish!


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## BrianM (Tuesday at 4:09 PM)

pauljames87 said:



			No I get that lol but he had an eye for him

Not many saw him at Celtic and thought ah he is my missing piece but klopp did.

Jota is another one. Someone told me his stats are similar to mane in terms of work rate and chances created per game so he has been highlighted to do a job

Same with like Robertson .. put him in average premier league team he is an average to good left back

Put him in a good team with great players around him he becomes an amazing full back
		
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Got to say, I think you’re a mile off regarding Robertson.
Robertson is arguably the best left back in the league and his stats probably back that up.
You don’t have the highest number of assists in the league by a defender by being average to good.
I get the analogy you are trying to make, but Robertson isn’t that analogy.


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## pauljames87 (Tuesday at 4:11 PM)

BrianM said:



			Got to say, I think you’re a mile off regarding Robertson.
Robertson is arguably the best left back in the league and his stats probably back that up.
You don’t have the highest number of assists in the league by a defender by being average to good.
I get the analogy you are trying to make, but Robertson isn’t that analogy.
		
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I think you have missed the point 

Put him at say villa he looks average to good but at Liverpool he is outstanding because he has the players around him


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## Tashyboy (Tuesday at 4:13 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			Agreed. And, as I assume Ten Hag now has a big influence in who comes in and who goes out now, I know he knows the player much more than me, and certainly knows how he could benefit the team. So, if he is a player we do sign, I will have reasonable confidence he'd do a good job (albeit any signing is a risk). And I certainly believe that we should be in a much better position with him than without, as it is a much bigger risk relying on Martial up front on his own for the remainder of the season.

I *also agree some players who have a very good impact at big teams, may not do so at lesser sides. I tried to imagine Gabriel Jesus or Giroud at Burnley, and could easily see them having a baron scoring spell over 20 games, yet still good players that could do a job for big teams.*

Mind you, I personally thought Van Dijk was class at Southampton. I was always saddened that United didn't seem to compete with Liverpool for his signing, given I think we had Smalling and Jones at the time.

And, Rio Ferdinand was only about 21 when he left West Ham. He was a young lad, but it must have been pretty quick that people thought he'd be World Class as he left for a British Transfer record at the time to Leeds. Think Lampard was about 23 when he went to Chelsea, so still pretty young, but by that point went for a decent fee for that day and age I guess. The difference with Weghorst is that he is now 30 years old. However, I still agree with you as I said, the team you play in can make a big difference to your contribution.
		
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I totally get what you are saying but am not sure Burnley is the best example. From what I have seen at the moment they are far and away the best footballing team in the championship. The football they are playing is remarkable compared to when Burnley played under Dyche. Which leads me to another ( I think ) valid point. Does a lot of getting the best out of players lie with the manager. As you mention TH must know what he will get out of a player who would fit into his system. 👍


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## BrianM (Tuesday at 4:13 PM)

pauljames87 said:



			I think you have missed the point

Put him at say villa he looks average to good but at Liverpool he is outstanding because he has the players around him
		
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I haven’t missed the point, I know what you are trying to say.
In my opinion he’d still be better than average to good at any other Premier league side.


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## Tashyboy (Tuesday at 4:15 PM)

BrianM said:



			Got to say, I think you’re a mile off regarding Robertson.
Robertson is arguably the best left back in the league and his stats probably back that up.
You don’t have the highest number of assists in the league by a defender by being average to good.
I get the analogy you are trying to make, but Robertson isn’t that analogy.
		
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Just to add that if TTA was as good a defender as Robertson, then he would be the best right back in England.👍


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## pauljames87 (Tuesday at 4:16 PM)

BrianM said:



			I haven’t missed the point, I know what you are trying to say.
In my opinion he’d still be better than average to good at any other Premier league side.
		
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He wouldn't get the freedom to get forward as much at lesser club tho, his defending isn't in question but his crossing is what makes hike outstanding


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## Swango1980 (Tuesday at 4:22 PM)

Tashyboy said:



			I totally get what you are saying but am not sure Burnley is the best example. From what I have seen at the moment they are far and away the best footballing team in the championship. The football they are playing is remarkable compared to when Burnley played under Dyche. Which leads me to another ( I think ) valid point. Does a lot of getting the best out of players lie with the manager. As you mention TH must know what he will get out of a player who would fit into his system. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, I was talking about the Burnley that played in the Premier League that got relegated, the side Weghorst played for at the time, and scored 2 goals in 20. If he played for Burnley in the Championship, I wouldn't be surprised if his record was better.

Yes, the manager will be the key. To be honest, more now than ever, I feel the biggest asset at the club is the manager, especially if they are allowed enough flexibility to do their job (i.e. a say in transfers). They are the ones that coach the side (or manage the whole set up to ensure they have the right coaches in place) and manage the players expectations, egos and confidence. A good manager will give confidence to his players and the fans, so that even if things go wrong (which they will), they are able to pin point the problems and confident in how to deal with them, and everyone is confident they will. And, importantly, they will know exactly the type of players they need in the team, in terms of ability and mentality. And, they will know exactly which players they need to get rid off. Not just bad eggs, but even just to keep things fresh.


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## Swango1980 (Tuesday at 4:30 PM)

BrianM said:



			Got to say, I think you’re a mile off regarding Robertson.
Robertson is arguably the best left back in the league and his stats probably back that up.
You don’t have the highest number of assists in the league by a defender by being average to good.
I get the analogy you are trying to make, but Robertson isn’t that analogy.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure he'd have too many assists if he played for Wolves , Forest or Everton? In that case, would he really stand out as being a top left back? Did he stand out as being just as good as he is now when he was at Hull City, or has he been allowed to shine since moving to Liverpool? Klopp also plays a system that puts a lot of importance on his full backs. At other clubs, Robertson may simply not get the same opportunities to show what he can do.


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## ColchesterFC (Tuesday at 5:12 PM)

BrianM said:



			Got to say, I think you’re a mile off regarding Robertson.
Robertson is arguably the best left back in the league and his stats probably back that up.
You don’t have the highest number of assists in the league by a defender by being average to good.
I get the analogy you are trying to make, but Robertson isn’t that analogy.
		
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Is looking at the number of assists the best way to assess how good a defender is? Not in my opinion. Surely you have to look at the defensive side of his game to assess him as a defender not look at his attacking stats. It's a bit like looking at the number of defensive headers Kane makes from set pieces to decide how good he is as a forward.


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## pauljames87 (Tuesday at 5:13 PM)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is looking at the number of assists the best way to assess how good a defender is? Not in my opinion. Surely you have to look at the defensive side of his game to assess him as a defender not look at his attacking stats. It's a bit like looking at the number of defensive headers Kane makes from set pieces to decide how good he is as a forward.
		
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No that's the point tho, you need to look at both 

Yes he is a good defender but did that stand out at hull? If you stuck him at West ham would he be as good defensively? No I don't believe 

But stick cresswell in Liverpool team and he would look better than he does for us .. and he's rubbish 

Basically Liverpool allow him to be the best he can 

Is he amazing for Scotland?


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## Slime (Tuesday at 8:24 PM)




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## nickjdavis (Tuesday at 8:51 PM)

Newcastle making heavy weather of Leicester.

Again spurning chance after chance like the Leeds and Sheff W games.

Has all the makings of a late Leicester smash and grab to me.


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## Slime (Tuesday at 8:52 PM)

An absolute lesson in possession, but not in finishing.
Garnacho is the tormentor in chief but he has to improve his final ball.
Maguire's passing has been absolutely superb.


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## Beezerk (Tuesday at 9:39 PM)

nickjdavis said:



			Newcastle making heavy weather of Leicester.

Again spurning chance after chance like the Leeds and Sheff W games.

Has all the makings of a late Leicester smash and grab to me.
		
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This aged well 🤣


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## Slime (Tuesday at 9:50 PM)




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## Slime (Tuesday at 9:56 PM)




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## nickjdavis (Tuesday at 10:06 PM)

Beezerk said:



			This aged well 🤣
		
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Should have been a lot more comfortable than 2. Dont think Leicester would have complained if they were 3 down at half time. When Joelinton hit the post in the first 30 seconds of the 2nd half I honestly thought it wasnt going to be our night.

Even then Vardy had one outstanding chance to grab a goal but fluffed it with only Pope to beat and then had a slightly tougher chance a couple of minutes later.

So used to disappointment and late crushing defeat are Newcastle fans that nothing is ever really taken for granted until the final whistle goes.


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## Slime (Tuesday at 10:07 PM)

Job done this evening with the only downside being an injury to Dalot.
Garnacho was unplayable this evening.
Rashford was ............................... just Rashford, absolutely on fire right now.


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## BrianM (Wednesday at 11:25 AM)

pauljames87 said:



			I think you have missed the point 

Put him at say villa he looks average to good but at Liverpool he is outstanding because he has the players around him
		
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You could say that about any player, look at Messi in his prime, he had Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Suarez, Fabregas, Sanchez and Neymar around him, sure he’s world class, but doesn’t half make it easier with that squad.
Would he be as good and have the records he does playing for Tenerife 😂


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## Swango1980 (Wednesday at 11:46 AM)

BrianM said:



			You could say that about any player, look at Messi in his prime, he had Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Suarez, Fabregas, Sanchez and Neymar around him, sure he’s world class, but doesn’t half make it easier with that squad.
Would he be as good and have the records he does playing for Tenerife 😂
		
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If he played for Tenerife, his records would be unbelievable. He'd probably score about 10 goals a game 

Top players like Messi would stand out as being unbelievable, no matter who they play for. Sure, his scoring records would be nowhere near as good if he played for Burnley or Southampton as opposed to Barcelona. But, he would still have stood out as being unbelievable. And I imagine that there are plenty of examples in the past where more average or poor sides have had players that have stood out a mile as being fantastic (e.g. from memory, Okacha at Bolton, Di Canio at West Ham, etc)

But, it depends on the type of player, what your skill sets are and how the team play that you play with. If Andy Robertson played for a weak side, he wouldn't necessarily come across as an average or poor defender, unless the defence as a whole is horrific and they bring him down to their level. He may well come across as a good and capable defender. But, they may play a system that we never really see how good he is at supporting the attack, and so nobody could really throw in the argument "he is wonderful at getting assists". He could be spending 70% of the game defending his own box. The point is, he plays for Liverpool, who play in such a way that get the most of his attacking attributes, and they can be used to praise his ability much more clearly.

For some players, it may also work in reverse, where they may perform better at "weaker" sides. I'm thinking Wan Bissaka who is a good defender, and plays well when that is pretty much all he needs to do. Yet when he needs to attack, and defend the counter-attack, he struggles. I guess there are plenty of goalkeepers who shine in weaker sides, when they've a lot of saves to make, yet they somehow can't meet the level of playing for one of the top sides, when they may only have 1 or 2 saves to make a match, and it is more about playing with your feet and having better concentration levels.


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## Bdill93 (Wednesday at 12:45 PM)

Last Jan villa brought Digne (LB) for 25 million - hes been very disappointing so far. 

This Jan villa are buying Moreno for approx £12 million

Neither players are young so not likely to get any re-sale value.

Fingers crossed Moreno is the answer because we cant just keep signing LB's


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## pauljames87 (Wednesday at 1:41 PM)

BrianM said:



			You could say that about any player, look at Messi in his prime, he had Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Suarez, Fabregas, Sanchez and Neymar around him, sure he’s world class, but doesn’t half make it easier with that squad.
Would he be as good and have the records he does playing for Tenerife 😂
		
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Different story. Look at grealish at villa, payet at West ham 

Players who drag a team forward 

Messi is another level .. that argie squad is average as a squad he got them to the world cup final and won it


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## BrianM (Wednesday at 2:05 PM)

pauljames87 said:



			Different story. Look at grealish at villa, payet at West ham 

Players who drag a team forward 

Messi is another level .. that argie squad is average as a squad he got them to the world cup final and won it
		
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Messi probably the wrong analogy due to positions played, hard to compare a left back to a forward.
All the people mentioned are more forward thinking players.


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## nickjdavis (Wednesday at 8:24 PM)

well well well.

interesting


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## nickjdavis (Wednesday at 8:29 PM)

oh....wow.


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## davie24 (Wednesday at 8:48 PM)

Never saw this coming. Has anyone checked on Tash?


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## Lord Tyrion (Wednesday at 8:49 PM)

Thanks for giving them confidence City 🙄. The least they can do 2nd half is kick em 😠


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## ColchesterFC (Wednesday at 9:00 PM)

Where's @Slime? I'm only here for the squirrel.


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## Billysboots (Wednesday at 9:40 PM)

I am now totally confused by the offside rule. Totally.

Mo Salah scores a goal a few days ago which is allowed to stand despite him being in an offside position, the explanation given being that the glancing header by a defender started a new phase of play.

Che Adams has just scored against Man City, again in a blatantly offside position, a City defender having deflected the ball into his path. And it’s ruled out.

Can someone explain the difference?


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## IanM (Wednesday at 9:46 PM)

You know the answer


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## ColchesterFC (Wednesday at 9:52 PM)

Billysboots said:



			I am now totally confused by the offside rule. Totally.

Mo Salah scores a goal a few days ago which is allowed to stand despite him being in an offside position, the explanation given being that the glancing header by a defender started a new phase of play.

Che Adams has just scored against Man City, again in a blatantly offside position, a City defender having deflected the ball into his path. And it’s ruled out.

Can someone explain the difference?
		
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## Billysboots (Wednesday at 9:55 PM)

Seriously, though, the inconsistency didn’t even warrant a mention in commentary. Not a word was said. It was just accepted that Adams was offside.


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## clubchamp98 (Wednesday at 9:56 PM)

Brilliant from Saints probably could not have gone better.
Said before you need to go at City .


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## clubchamp98 (Wednesday at 9:59 PM)

Billysboots said:



			Seriously, though, the inconsistency didn’t even warrant a mention in commentary. Not a word was said. It was just accepted that Adams was offside.
		
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That’s because he was as was Salah.
But the header was a deliberate attempt and the City one was a deflection.
Although I would say is trying to block the ball an attempt to play it. I would say yes it is.
The rule is pathetic


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## clubchamp98 (Wednesday at 10:04 PM)

ColchesterFC said:



View attachment 45926

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Yes this your not allowed to score against City 
Suprized they never found a reason to disallow the other two.


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## nickjdavis (Wednesday at 10:22 PM)

Saints - Newcastle
Forest - Man U

in Semis


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## Tashyboy (Wednesday at 11:05 PM)

Brilliant. Just got back from watching Avatar. Ave I missed owt whilst Ave been out for 4 hours 😖


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## Aztecs27 (Yesterday at 12:22 AM)

Morgan Gibbs-White has rattled the entire Wolves fanbase, it appears. Gave him abuse all night, then his celebration after scoring his penalty has their Twitter in meltdown 😂


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## SaintHacker (Yesterday at 6:34 AM)

Billysboots said:



			Seriously, though, the inconsistency didn’t even warrant a mention in commentary. Not a word was said. It was just accepted that Adams was offside.
		
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I haven't seen the Salah one so can't comment but Adams was offside when the the ball was put in, long before it hit the citeh defender


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Yesterday at 7:54 AM)

Swango1980 said:



			If he played for Tenerife, his records would be unbelievable. He'd probably score about 10 goals a game 

Top players like Messi would stand out as being unbelievable, no matter who they play for. Sure, his scoring records would be nowhere near as good if he played for Burnley or Southampton as opposed to Barcelona. But, he would still have stood out as being unbelievable. And I imagine that there are plenty of examples in the past where more average or poor sides have had players that have stood out a mile as being fantastic (e.g. from memory, Okacha at Bolton, Di Canio at West Ham, etc)

But, it depends on the type of player, what your skill sets are and how the team play that you play with. If Andy Robertson played for a weak side, he wouldn't necessarily come across as an average or poor defender, unless the defence as a whole is horrific and they bring him down to their level. He may well come across as a good and capable defender. But, they may play a system that we never really see how good he is at supporting the attack, and so nobody could really throw in the argument "he is wonderful at getting assists". He could be spending 70% of the game defending his own box. The point is, he plays for Liverpool, who play in such a way that get the most of his attacking attributes, and they can be used to praise his ability much more clearly.

For some players, it may also work in reverse, where they may perform better at "weaker" sides. I'm thinking Wan Bissaka who is a good defender, and plays well when that is pretty much all he needs to do. Yet when he needs to attack, and defend the counter-attack, he struggles. I guess there are plenty of goalkeepers who shine in weaker sides, when they've a lot of saves to make, yet they somehow can't meet the level of playing for one of the top sides, when they may only have 1 or 2 saves to make a match, and it is more about playing with your feet and having better concentration levels.
		
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I recall back when Dalglish was in his prime there were quite loud calls from some for him to be dropped from the Scotland team as he was seen by some as wasteful, continually giving the ball away…yup…simply the rest of the team weren’t on the same wavelength as him, and were either not able or were not being asked to play off Dalglish in the way of his teammates at Liverpool…and because of that at times he could look pretty awful.

But I forgive him anything and everything wasteful in a Scotland shirt for what he gave…the collect, drag, turn and precision goal against Belgium; the flicked header off the Martin Buchan cross at Anfield; and at Hampden spotting that the gap between Ray Clemence’s legs presented a hole as wide as the Mersey Tunnel…and I count myself privileged to have ‘been there’ for both of the latter two 😍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


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## Billysboots (Yesterday at 8:36 AM)

SaintHacker said:



			I haven't seen the Salah one so can't comment but Adams was offside when the the ball was put in, long before it hit the citeh defender
		
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So was Salah.


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## Swango1980 (Yesterday at 8:51 AM)

SaintHacker said:



			I haven't seen the Salah one so can't comment but Adams was offside when the the ball was put in, long before it hit the citeh defender
		
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That was exactly why Billyboots asked the question. Salah was also a mile offside when ball was crossed to him.

I renber thinking same as Billy when I saw it last night. I believe the answer is that in Salah incident, defender deliberately tried to head ball. In City game, it seemed to be deflected off defender. However, I didn't see it again, but even if it deflected off defender, surely the defender deliberately tried to block cross, and therefore deliberately played ball, albeit they were not in control of where it went after than? Similar to defender in Salah incident. He tried to block cross, but was never fully in control of outcome, thus his header dropped to Salah.

Garbage rule. I wish commentators used last nights incident to compare the two.


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## Slime (Yesterday at 8:58 AM)

ColchesterFC said:



			Where's @Slime? I'm only here for the squirrel.
		
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Unfortunately I was out last night, playing bad snooker, but the footy was on.
It looked a solid result with a couple of very good goals.
However, the squirrels don't venture out for the noisy neighbours!


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## Liverpoolphil (Yesterday at 9:04 AM)

Billysboots said:



			So was Salah.
		
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It’s down to the very random interpretation of “deliberate attempt” to play the ball - and as we all know it’s always clear to clarify what’s deliberate or not 😂


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## Orikoru (Yesterday at 9:09 AM)

Swango1980 said:



			That was exactly why Billyboots asked the question. Salah was also a mile offside when ball was crossed to him.

I renber thinking same as Billy when I saw it last night. I believe the answer is that in Salah incident, defender deliberately tried to head ball. In City game, it seemed to be deflected off defender. However, I didn't see it again, but even if it deflected off defender, surely the defender deliberately tried to block cross, and therefore deliberately played ball, albeit they were not in control of where it went after than? Similar to defender in Salah incident. He tried to block cross, but was never fully in control of outcome, thus his header dropped to Salah.

Garbage rule. I wish commentators used last nights incident to compare the two.
		
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It's a prime example of why people moan that the rule-makers have never played the game. Anyone who has played would know that you're never, ever just going to leave a through ball because you think the forward is offside. You just can't take that risk because someone else might be playing him onside that you've not seen. You're always going to make some attempt to cut it out, and just because it flicks off your head that shouldn't cancel out the fact the forward was in an offside position. It makes no sense, and as you say, is total garbage now.


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## Swango1980 (Yesterday at 9:18 AM)

Orikoru said:



			It's a prime example of why people moan that the rule-makers have never played the game. Anyone who has played would know that you're never, ever just going to leave a through ball because you think the forward is offside. You just can't take that risk because someone else might be playing him onside that you've not seen. You're always going to make some attempt to cut it out, and just because it flicks off your head that shouldn't cancel out the fact the forward was in an offside position. It makes no sense, and as you say, is total garbage now.
		
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I'm unsure that is the reason why the rules are so bad, the rule makers haven't played the game. I'm assuming none of us have played the game to elite standard, but we've possibly mostly played the game in some capacity. With mates, school, Saturday or Sunday league. Whichever, we all agree, I think, the rule is garbage.

In terms of the rule makers, we may never have heard of them playing the game at elite level. But, I'm sure they have played the game like the rest of us. They have a job in football, so it is a sport that must interest them, and therefore played when they were younger. They've still come up with these messy offside and handball rules.

Maybe there are too many cooks coming up with the final rules. If one, or a small group of reasonably intelligent people came up with rules, they would be pretty solid. But, when you have many opinions flying around, including the introduction of VAR and opinions around that, they end up in a bit of a mess. They are maybe written so that, in a case that have a minuscule chance of happening, the current rule might fit it quite well. But, they fail to see that the current rule is a disaster for an event that could occur much more frequently.


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## Orikoru (Yesterday at 9:22 AM)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm unsure that is the reason why the rules are so bad, the rule makers haven't played the game. I'm assuming none of us have played the game to elite standard, but we've possibly mostly played the game in some capacity. With mates, school, Saturday or Sunday league. Whichever, we all agree, I think, the rule is garbage.

In terms of the rule makers, we may never have heard of them playing the game at elite level. But, I'm sure they have played the game like the rest of us. They have a job in football, so it is a sport that must interest them, and therefore played when they were younger. They've still come up with these messy offside and handball rules.

Maybe there are too many cooks coming up with the final rules. If one, or a small group of reasonably intelligent people came up with rules, they would be pretty solid. But, when you have many opinions flying around, including the introduction of VAR and opinions around that, they end up in a bit of a mess. They are maybe written so that, in a case that have a minuscule chance of happening, the current rule might fit it quite well. But, they fail to see that the current rule is a disaster for an event that could occur much more frequently.
		
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Just to clarify, I think they should still have enough common sense to make proper rules despite having not played the game (but apparently they don't). But all I meant was it's a good example _why_ people say that! It's in trying to understand how they get it so badly wrong. It certainly seems like you'd have to have never played football in your life, even at school, to think that was a sensible rule.


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## Billysboots (Yesterday at 9:40 AM)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s down to the very random interpretation of “deliberate attempt” to play the ball - and as we all know it’s always clear to clarify what’s deliberate or not 😂
		
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Agreed Phil.

The issue for me is that surely a defender’s primary responsibility is to prevent the opposition scoring so, in all honesty, it really shouldn’t matter whether the attempt to make contact with the ball can be interpreted as deliberate or not.

The City defender last night wasn’t in a position to put a tackle in, so his only other option was to block a shot or cross. He placed himself there solely for that purpose and, as such, when the ball struck him it must follow that he played it deliberately, regardless of whether he could actually react to it. If he did have time to react he would hardly have leapt out of the way!

If Salah’s goal was allowed to stand, so should Adams’. The rule is farcical.


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## clubchamp98 (Yesterday at 10:34 AM)

Billysboots said:



			Agreed Phil.

The issue for me is that surely a defender’s primary responsibility is to prevent the opposition scoring so, in all honesty, it really shouldn’t matter whether the attempt to make contact with the ball can be interpreted as deliberate or not.

The City defender last night wasn’t in a position to put a tackle in, so his only other option was to block a shot or cross. He placed himself there solely for that purpose and, as such, when the ball struck him it must follow that he played it deliberately, regardless of whether he could actually react to it. If he did have time to react he would hardly have leapt out of the way!

If Salah’s goal was allowed to stand, so should Adams’. The rule is farcical.
		
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Neither should have imo.
your offside when the ball is played ,simple as that.


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## Billysboots (Yesterday at 10:41 AM)

clubchamp98 said:



			Neither should have imo.
your offside when the ball is played ,simple as that.
		
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Either both to stand or neither, as long as there is consistency.


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## Swango1980 (Yesterday at 10:56 AM)

Orikoru said:



			Just to clarify, I think they should still have enough common sense to make proper rules despite having not played the game (but apparently they don't). *But all I meant was it's a good example why people say that!* It's in trying to understand how they get it so badly wrong. It certainly seems like you'd have to have never played football in your life, even at school, to think that was a sensible rule.
		
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I suspect that phrase comes from ex-footballer pundits. In a desperate bid to make everyone believe they are 100% correct, and suspecting they are getting some resistance from, say, a presenter, they use the "played the game" argument as a means to shut down all debate. A "polite" way of saying "I am right as I've played the game, and therefore you are wrong". Graeme Sourness is a prime example. He can talk some absolute garbage at times (his strong opinions against Casemiro for example), but then throws the comment "I played the game" or "I played in that position" as a means to make us all think he is making a correct assessment.


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## pokerjoke (Yesterday at 11:57 AM)

One thing we can all see quite clearly is that football changes quite quickly when it really looks like it can take years.
Utd,Newcastle,Arsenal all looked light years away from City and Liverpool,however the tables have clearly changed.
City not looking so dominant and Liverpool struggling for any sort of consistency.
I’m sure many more twist and turns to come.
Quite impressed with Southampton last night.
Walker clearly isn’t a CB
Foden clearly not a left sided player 
Grealish just baffles me,so much talent but just so predictable.


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## Bdill93 (Yesterday at 12:03 PM)

pokerjoke said:



			One thing we can all see quite clearly is that football changes quite quickly when it really looks like it can take years.
Utd,Newcastle,Arsenal all looked light years away from City and Liverpool,however the tables have clearly changed.
City not looking so dominant and Liverpool struggling for any sort of consistency.
I’m sure many more twist and turns to come.
Quite impressed with Southampton last night.
Walker clearly isn’t a CB
Foden clearly not a left sided player
Grealish just baffles me,so much talent but just so predictable.
		
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I really don't get what's happening at City this year, more beatable than they've been for years - despite the best goal scorer in the prem now being there!


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## road2ruin (Yesterday at 12:28 PM)

Bdill93 said:



			I really don't get what's happening at City this year, more beatable than they've been for years - despite the best goal scorer in the prem now being there!
		
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I'm not doubting Haaland as an individual player and any fan who says that they'd not stick him in their team immediately would be lying I would suggest. That said it doesn't seem to be working for City at the moment as his inclusion seems to be adversly affecting the goal scoring of others in the team. Even back to the days of Aguero the big thing about City was the fact that they scored so many goals from all over the park. 

In 18/19 Aguero got 21 however they had Sterling only a few behind and then another 6 players around the 10 mark (give or take).
In 19/20 It was Sterling out in front with 20 goals however Aguero (16), Jesus (14), KDB (13), Mahrez (11) and then another 3 players around the 6/7 goal mark.
In 20/21 Gundogan (13), Sterling (10) and then 5 others between the 6-10 goal mark. 
In 21/22 KDB (15), Sterling (13), Mahrez (11) and then 5 others between the 7-10 goal mark. 

This season you have Haaland well out on front with 21 goals but the big difference for me is that you have Foden on 7 and then Alvarez, KDB on 3 so if Haaland fails to fire the system doesn't seem to allow the rest of the players to fill in. Obviously he's not failed that many times however with CL coming up his minutes will have to be managed and there is always the prospect of injury and I wonder whether they'll be able to just switch it back to the old style which seemed to work so well across the team as a whole.

As I said, I totally understand why they went for him as any team would have done however whether it'll work long term or whether this is just initial teething problems of accommodating him in the side remains to be seen.


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## fundy (Yesterday at 12:35 PM)

I think a big thing from Citys perspective thats being overlooked is the defense, the 4 that are starting currently (most of the time) are a long way from being the 4 that played most of the time last year. Walker Diaz Laporte and Cancelo compared to Lewis Stones Akanji and Ake? What has happened to Cancelo since the world cup, looks a complete shadow of the player he was before? And surely Pep must be able to source a left back after all this time? Watching Nathan Ake have plenty of ball there and keep turning backwards last night cant be optimal! Theyve definitely made plenty of games harder this year by conceding goals they just didnt concede in the league in previous years. That said get a couple back fit and I expect them to come on strong for the rest of the season


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## Billysboots (Yesterday at 1:02 PM)

There is always going to be the danger, if you sign a player with Haaland’s goal scoring record, that you become rather one dimensional. It happened to a degree with Zlatan at United, and certainly with Ronaldo. Everything becomes built around one player at a potential cost elsewhere.

United are being widely ridiculed for the loan move for Weghorst. I can see why - he’s very unlikely to bang in 20 goals a season, doesn’t come with a huge reputation or price tag, and is hardly a signing for the future. But I trust the manager now, and if you look at what else the player brings to a side he may well turn out to be a decent short term signing. His pressing stats are mighty impressive and his hold up play is reputed to be first class. I’m not sure he’s being recruited to score goals but if he brings the runners behind and alongside him into the game then the goals are very likely to come from elsewhere. We actually need a player like him more than one like Felix.

I’ll judge once I’ve seen him.


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## Swango1980 (Yesterday at 1:12 PM)

road2ruin said:



			I'm not doubting Haaland as an individual player and any fan who says that they'd not stick him in their team immediately would be lying I would suggest. That said it doesn't seem to be working for City at the moment as his inclusion seems to be adversly affecting the goal scoring of others in the team. Even back to the days of Aguero the big thing about City was the fact that they scored so many goals from all over the park.

In 18/19 Aguero got 21 however they had Sterling only a few behind and then another 6 players around the 10 mark (give or take).
In 19/20 It was Sterling out in front with 20 goals however Aguero (16), Jesus (14), KDB (13), Mahrez (11) and then another 3 players around the 6/7 goal mark.
In 20/21 Gundogan (13), Sterling (10) and then 5 others between the 6-10 goal mark.
In 21/22 KDB (15), Sterling (13), Mahrez (11) and then 5 others between the 7-10 goal mark.

This season you have Haaland well out on front with 21 goals but the big difference for me is that you have Foden on 7 and then Alvarez, KDB on 3 so if Haaland fails to fire the system doesn't seem to allow the rest of the players to fill in. Obviously he's not failed that many times however with CL coming up his minutes will have to be managed and there is always the prospect of injury and I wonder whether they'll be able to just switch it back to the old style which seemed to work so well across the team as a whole.

As I said, I totally understand why they went for him as any team would have done however whether it'll work long term or whether this is just initial teething problems of accommodating him in the side remains to be seen.
		
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I'm not sure if scoring goals is the problem. We are not even half way through the season. so the low numbers you quoted for the other players other than Haaland are likely to more than double. And, if Haaland is scoring a ton more goals, he is simply the one getting on the end of chances (i.e. if he wasn't playing, then others would score in his place. Definitely not as many, but the players on the pitch would have to take more responsibility on being the one to score a goal, simply as Haaland is not there)

If you look at the goals for and against for the same seasons, and scale up this seasons to be the equivalent to 38 games, you have:

Goals For (starting in 2018/19): 95, 102, 83, 99, 101
Goals Against: 23, 35, 32, 26, 38

So, City are still scoring a lot of goals as a team, with only 2019/20 scoring at a marginally higher rate. But, they do seem to be conceding more. They cannot be expected to score 3,4,5 goals every game, and so if they concede a goal or 2 in a game, suddenly they are under pressure. Because they are conceding goals more often, perhaps we are not seeing them play as much in 2nd gear, comfortable playing their way to a win, as much as we used to? 

Mind you, they've lost twice in 17 games in the league, and won 12. Scored more than any other of the 19 sides, and conceded a lot fewer than most. Perhaps not close to their expectation of winning 17 out of 17, but I suspect there would be less concern about them (about not playing so well) if it wasn't for the fact Arsenal have had 14 wins and only lost once in 17 games. In reality, I think the table says more about how well Arsenal have played rather than how poorly City have played.


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## Swango1980 (Yesterday at 1:13 PM)

Billysboots said:



			There is always going to be the danger, if you sign a player with Haaland’s goal scoring record, that you become rather one dimensional. It happened to a degree with Zlatan at United, and certainly with Ronaldo. Everything becomes built around one player at a potential cost elsewhere.

United are being widely ridiculed for the loan move for Weghorst. I can see why - he’s very unlikely to bang in 20 goals a season, doesn’t come with a huge reputation or price tag, and is hardly a signing for the future. But I trust the manager now, and if you look at what else the player brings to a side he may well turn out to be a decent short term signing. His pressing stats are mighty impressive and his hold up play is reputed to be first class. I’m not sure he’s being recruited to score goals but if he brings the runners behind and alongside him into the game then the goals are very likely to come from elsewhere. We actually need a player like him more than one like Felix.

I’ll judge once I’ve seen him.
		
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And now I'm wondering do I replace Martial with him in my Draft Fantasy Football league


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## Billysboots (Yesterday at 1:32 PM)

Swango1980 said:



			And now I'm wondering do I replace Martial with him in my Draft Fantasy Football league 

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I’ve sneaked Rashford in - never would have expected myself to be doing that 12 months ago! And the bonus is that he’s classed as a midfielder so I can sneak him in behind Haaland, Kane and Mitrovic.


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## Swango1980 (Yesterday at 1:45 PM)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve sneaked Rashford in - never would have expected myself to be doing that 12 months ago! And the bonus is that he’s classed as a midfielder so I can sneak him in behind Haaland, Kane and Mitrovic.
		
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Ohh, I've certainly got him in my normal side. Think it would be silly not to, especially, as you say, he is classed as a midfielder. And, a pretty cheap one.

Sadly, someone already has him in my draft league. I was lucky enough to get Haaland, but was unfortunate enough to also pick Bamford and Vardy. I was excited about that front 3 at start of season, but that turned to desperation as season progressed, and Vardy and Bamford were utterly useless, but I hoped and hoped they'd find a return to form. Finally gave up on them before Xmas, and I was able to get Martial and Ings in, who nobody else had.


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## road2ruin (Yesterday at 2:00 PM)

Billysboots said:



			United are being widely ridiculed for the loan move for Weghorst. I can see why - he’s very unlikely to bang in 20 goals a season, doesn’t come with a huge reputation or price tag, and is hardly a signing for the future. But I trust the manager now, and if you look at what else the player brings to a side he may well turn out to be a decent short term signing. His pressing stats are mighty impressive and his hold up play is reputed to be first class. I’m not sure he’s being recruited to score goals but if he brings the runners behind and alongside him into the game then the goals are very likely to come from elsewhere. We actually need a player like him more than one like Felix.

I’ll judge once I’ve seen him.
		
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Deal done with Besiktas but on the proviso that they can sign a replacement. Personally think he's a good signing for a short period of time although never going to be one that excites. United don't need a Felix type player (not convinced that Chelsea do either) and he offers something different to what is there already. ETH's signings have been pretty good so far and if he thinks that Weghorst can do a job for the second half of the season then that should be enough.


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## clubchamp98 (Yesterday at 3:01 PM)

Billysboots said:



			There is always going to be the danger, if you sign a player with Haaland’s goal scoring record, that you become rather one dimensional. It happened to a degree with Zlatan at United, and certainly with Ronaldo. Everything becomes built around one player at a potential cost elsewhere.

United are being widely ridiculed for the loan move for Weghorst. I can see why - he’s very unlikely to bang in 20 goals a season, doesn’t come with a huge reputation or price tag, and is hardly a signing for the future. But I trust the manager now, and if you look at what else the player brings to a side he may well turn out to be a decent short term signing. His pressing stats are mighty impressive and his hold up play is reputed to be first class. I’m not sure he’s being recruited to score goals but if he brings the runners behind and alongside him into the game then the goals are very likely to come from elsewhere. We actually need a player like him more than one like Felix.

I’ll judge once I’ve seen him.
		
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He gives you a plan B .
Its good to have options.


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## Bunkermagnet (Yesterday at 7:12 PM)

No mention yet of the new FFP rules coming into place?


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## Lord Tyrion (Yesterday at 8:08 PM)

Bunkermagnet said:



			No mention yet of the new FFP rules coming into place?
		
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What are they?

I know I could Google it but hey, it's a forum 😄


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## Newtonuti (Yesterday at 8:19 PM)

My club Scunthorpe United were issued a winding up order by HMRC yesterday. We were taken over by Peter Swann back in 2013, when he promised us everything from massive player investment, all the way to a new stadium. All he managed to do was get planning permission for flats on the car park, blow loads on player wages, and get us relegated to the National League (we were a championship side at the time). He then proceeded to transfer the ground and land into his own Ltd's name, took out an EFL loan during covid, and left the club with no assets and in huge debt.

End of last season, he announced, to much joy from us fans, that he was finally selling the club. He's since, rejected multiple offers, including at least 4 offers from a local consortium of businessmen who are lifelong Iron fans. This has ended up with us having to get the consortium to pay the wages for december, then us selling a player just to pay january's wages! Finally, we were issued the winding up order yesterday, so this could be the end of a club formed back in 1899.

To top it off, it was recently discovered that during Swann's tenure as chairman and owner, he gambled up to £20 million with a bookmakers called Apollo, although according to him, it never affected the clubs finances (Absolute rubbish).


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## Lord Tyrion (Yesterday at 8:30 PM)

@Newtonuti wow. What an appalling story. Splitting the assets of a club, transferring ground and often training ground ownership, is sneaky and crippling for a club. Hopefully there is some way back.


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## Bunkermagnet (Yesterday at 8:45 PM)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What are they?

I know I could Google it but hey, it's a forum 😄
		
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https://www.consultancy.uk/news/31697/uefa-introduces-new-financial-and-sustainability-regulations


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## HomecountiesJohn (Yesterday at 8:58 PM)

Just watching the Fulham v Chelsea game, it seems whenever a team or manager is under pressure they always concede scrappy goals/decisions.

Leno has been player of the match in the 1st half.


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## nickjdavis (Yesterday at 9:20 PM)

9.7m for 58 mins of football and a three match ban.....expensive loan!!!


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## Swango1980 (Yesterday at 9:20 PM)

Good debut by Felix


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## HomecountiesJohn (Yesterday at 9:20 PM)

nickjdavis said:



			9.7m for 58 mins of football and a three match ban.....expensive loan!!!
		
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Crazy. He has been Chelsea's best player too.


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## Pin-seeker (Yesterday at 9:23 PM)

Potter looks doomed.
The injuries Chelsea have got at the minute is crazy,now Felix with a 3 match ban 🤯


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## nickjdavis (Yesterday at 9:37 PM)

top six is going to be really interesting...if Liverpool and Brighton win their game in hand then there will be six clubs on 29-35 points from third down to 8th.

Nice to see it so competetive with different teams in the mix.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Yesterday at 9:50 PM)

Sacking Potter would be incredibly stupid. He hasn't had the full squad to choose from.

I do think giving Tuchel the push was stupid too.


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## Aztecs27 (Yesterday at 9:57 PM)

How did we drop points to this Chelsea team? They are truly abysmal.


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## fundy (Yesterday at 9:58 PM)

Aztecs27 said:



			How did we drop points to this Chelsea team? They are truly abysmal.
		
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What a rub that is


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## Billysboots (Yesterday at 9:59 PM)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Sacking Potter would be incredibly stupid. He hasn't had the full squad to choose from.

I do think giving Tuchel the push was stupid too.
		
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It seems there was an awful lot about Tuchel’s sacking which hasn’t been reported. Suffice to say several pundits I see quoted about his departure seem to be in complete agreement that it was the right thing to do.

I do think that Potter hasn’t had much luck, but equally it seems that he doesn’t seem able to make the most of what he actually has available. So many players have underperformed this season and there comes a point where you have to start asking why.

I think he’s in big trouble.


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## Aztecs27 (Yesterday at 10:53 PM)

fundy said:



			What a rub that is 

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I’m starting to think we might finish above them at this rate


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